The end of satire
October 18, 2016 4:07 PM   Subscribe

 
Yes.
posted by Fizz at 4:19 PM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


No.
posted by Neale at 4:19 PM on October 18, 2016 [3 favorites]


"Yes."
posted by Greg_Ace at 4:21 PM on October 18, 2016 [62 favorites]


Just because the Daily Mail will complain about your sketch does not mean that satire is dead

What is this, a joke
posted by beerperson at 4:24 PM on October 18, 2016


Satire died when hateful bigots started using it as a shield for being hateful bigots. "I'm not being racist, it's satire."

What the hell good is satire when you can't tell where the joke ends and sincerity begins?
posted by SansPoint at 4:29 PM on October 18, 2016 [6 favorites]


It's not dead, it's restin'.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 4:29 PM on October 18, 2016 [6 favorites]


It's certainly a tougher job, these days. I mean, holy shit.
posted by Artw at 4:31 PM on October 18, 2016 [11 favorites]


Is this tired question still alive? Samples from just the first page of a Google search for "is satire dead" (with references to the FPP article removed):

The Death of Satire - The Daily Beast

Satire is dying because satirists are too successful - The Spectator

Is Satire Dead? | Huffington Post

This Is Why Satire Is Dead | Crooks and Liars

Satire is dead and we killed him - Age Of Shitlords

Irony Killed Satire - Dead Philosophers in Heaven

Give the Onion its Pulitzer! Satire is dead. - The Washington Post

The 'New Yorker' controversy: Is satire dead? - The Week

Trump symbolizes the death of satire in politics – The Signal

Prince Lobel Presents: A Discussion with Bassem Youssef Is Satire Dead?

Satire is (un)dead: How comedy became a ... - Democratic Audit

Satire is Dead! : Design Observer

Satire is dead when France honors the theocratic Saudi monarchy for ... Salon.com

U.S. Open greens reinforce notion that satire is dead, as The Onion ... Golf Digest

Satire Is Dead. And Cartoonists Killed It. - by J.J. McCullough - The Nib

Falwell endorses Trump? Satire is dead. By Randall Balmer.

Rupa Huq MP: Is satire dead in parliament? | PoliticsHome.com

Satire .. not quite dead yet. wortharguingfor.com

Satire is Dead | Resilient Constructs

Is Satire Dead? - Forums - MyAnimeList.net

Kill the Poor: the Death of Satire and the Sociopathy of the Rich

Satire is (Still) Dead - Guido Fawkes Gallery

Is satire dead? | Lisa Scott | TEDxDunedin - Milq Playlist

Satire isn't dead – it's just sick with self-satisfaction | Conservative Home

Satire's dead, PML-N SMT killed it, just attended the funeral - Dunya News

posted by Greg_Ace at 4:32 PM on October 18, 2016 [23 favorites]


Is this like punk rock where as long as people keep saying it is dead it isn't, but once people start saying it isn't dead it is?
posted by poe at 4:40 PM on October 18, 2016 [6 favorites]


It's not dead, it's restin'.
It SAT down because it's TIRED.

Puns will never die. Or dye. Or Diane. Or diarrhea.
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:40 PM on October 18, 2016 [6 favorites]


Despite the tired headline, the article is rather interesting, and quite specifc to contemporary Britian. This quote jumped out at me:

Righteous anger has tipped over online into righteous hatred and it’s poisoned everything.

There is something ritalized now, to the way scandals play out online. One tweet and the mob's at your heels, or sometimes even no tweet at all...wouldn't surprise me if it makes people timid. All good satire must offend, and you can't deliberately offend now and still be one of the good guys...
posted by Diablevert at 4:40 PM on October 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


Satire is undead. Like punk rock, anarchism, and Schrödinger's cats, it shall remain, floating blissfully in an eternal quantum superposition, perpetually mourned by the culture hacks, it's resurrection perpetually accoladed to the latest funny person being put forward. In that way, satire's like Cthulhu: death is not even the question, the aeon is the sole relevance. And 2016 is the year where you, gentle reader, was secretly the satire all along.
posted by LeRoienJaune at 4:42 PM on October 18, 2016 [4 favorites]


Shortly after the destruction of the Twin Towers, it was widely declared that we were now in a post-irony world, that satire was dead, and that painful sincerity was all that would remain. This lasted, to my recollection, about eight months. But they were a pivotal eight months, during which western leaders - having apparently disarmed their critics of a very useful weapon - were able to advance some brutally self-serving and vicious agendas, the consequences of which are ongoing.

It's worth wondering, every time the media circus starts to beat the "satire is dead" drum again, if what they're really asking for is to shut down kind of critical public thinking that leads to effective satire.
posted by mhoye at 4:48 PM on October 18, 2016 [21 favorites]


(This is not to say that SNL hasn't been bad since basically forever, though; let's not conflate the two.)
posted by mhoye at 4:49 PM on October 18, 2016 [3 favorites]


I think the recent problem with satire is that the real world is outdoing it.
posted by sleeping bear at 4:50 PM on October 18, 2016 [21 favorites]


It's worth wondering, every time the media circus starts to beat the "satire is dead" drum again, if what they're really asking for is to shut down kind of critical public thinking that leads to effective satire.

Critical thinking has certainly been on the wane of late, especially in the UK.

Also the BBC is so horribly diminished and cowardly these days I really doubt they'd back anything that might get people thinking too much for fear of being shut down.
posted by Artw at 4:52 PM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


Oh, for the love of fuck, not this trite argument again.

Satire is not dead because hack writers can't get cheap laughs out of soft bigotry anymore.
posted by NoxAeternum at 4:56 PM on October 18, 2016 [14 favorites]


It's worth wondering, every time the media circus starts to beat the "satire is dead" drum again, if what they're really asking for is to shut down kind of critical public thinking that leads to effective satire.

The article, that turbid dahlia posted, at the top of the page, is about the author feeling sad that there is a lack of effective satire addressing the current political moment in Britian, and questioning famous satirists as to why that might be.

But we can certainly spend this whole thread arguing about how this article's headline resembles headlines you disliked from 15 years ago. Everybody else in here seems down with that.

Jiminy Christmas on a rainbow pogo stick, newspaper writers don't even get to pick their own headlines.
posted by Diablevert at 4:57 PM on October 18, 2016 [8 favorites]


Um, Sartre died in 1980
posted by oulipian at 4:59 PM on October 18, 2016 [30 favorites]


Kill the Poor: the Death of Satire and the Sociopathy of the Rich

Y'know, speaking of punk, "Kill the Poor" would probably be a pretty cool name for a punk song.
posted by nickmark at 5:05 PM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


Um, Sartre died in 1980

Safire died in 2009
posted by briank at 5:09 PM on October 18, 2016 [4 favorites]


Once everyone declares it dead, it will re-emerge as the next big thing. We need satire today more than ever.
Oh how I pine for the days of D.C. Follies that ran from 1987-1989. I was only 12 years old when it was on but I always watched. Satire is frequently the best source of real news!
Is it too late to get Alfred E. Neuman on the ballot on November 8th?
posted by Muncle at 5:11 PM on October 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


All good satire must offend

I don't agree - sleeping bear has it. The point of satire is to illustrate how ridiculous reality it is by reducing it to its essence, or amplifying it to the point of absurdity. Since reality itself , or at least its representation in the media seems to be doing a great job of hitting peak, crack-like intensity. It's like the Loudness Wars - everything has been turned up, flattened of nuance, and there is no quiet space left for satire to boost, and so it's self satirising.
posted by Jon Mitchell at 5:19 PM on October 18, 2016 [5 favorites]


I thought satire was formally declared dead on 9/11? I remember a lot of articles during the New Seriousness prior to the run-up to the war against the wrong people.

If that didn't confirm that satire would never, ever die, I'm not sure what will.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 5:22 PM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


What is dead will never die, but rises again harder and stronger.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 5:24 PM on October 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


Jiminy Christmas on a rainbow pogo stick, newspaper writers don't even get to pick their own headlines.

Not if they're going to be poopy-heads who pick dumb ones. Metafilter won't be having that.
posted by Greg_Ace at 5:25 PM on October 18, 2016


I guess I don't live in contemporary Britain myself, but no, I don't think you'd stir up much outrage with an absurdist joke about a public figure's eggs? I mean there's always somebody out there who will have a problem with something but making up an example like that doesn't show a great deal of in-touchness with what people actually care about.
posted by atoxyl at 5:44 PM on October 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


These days? If the BBC is involved?
posted by Artw at 5:46 PM on October 18, 2016


Also, while I don't claim to be a satire expert I'm definitely a devotee; and I consider the article rather shallow and glib (in which case it got exactly the pointless overused headline it deserved). If satire really is so important and needed, it merits a properly thoughtful article - which in turn would be entitled to a far better headline.

In the meantime, it's cheap jokes all 'round! Bartender, I'll have another!
posted by Greg_Ace at 5:49 PM on October 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


Shortly after the destruction of the Twin Towers, it was widely declared that we were now in a post-irony world, that satire was dead, and that painful sincerity was all that would remain. This lasted, to my recollection, about eight months. But they were a pivotal eight months, during which western leaders - having apparently disarmed their critics of a very useful weapon - were able to advance some brutally self-serving and vicious agendas, the consequences of which are ongoing.

It's worth wondering, every time the media circus starts to beat the "satire is dead" drum again, if what they're really asking for is to shut down kind of critical public thinking that leads to effective satire.


Holy shit ... Yes, this exactly.
posted by ZenMasterThis at 5:50 PM on October 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


Well I said I don't like in the UK so I might be wrong. A bigger difficulty for satirists right now has quickly been pinpointed by the people in this thread. But while it's not a good bet joking about the next crazy awful thing Donald Trump will say - right before he says it - people like that are not necessarily un-satirizeable. Or rather in that specific case he seems to be quite personally susceptible to ridicule because he is actually very thin-skinned.
posted by atoxyl at 5:52 PM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


I don't know if satire is dead, but Don Joyce certainly is.
posted by Slothrup at 5:55 PM on October 18, 2016


It's not dead; on the contrary, it has emerged from its larval phase and grown wings (warning: fake rodent gore).
posted by vverse23 at 5:56 PM on October 18, 2016


Samantha Bee/Full Frontal. that is all you need to know.
posted by bluesky43 at 6:07 PM on October 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


Jesus Christ! First Lemmy, then Bowie, then Prince, and now SATIRE??! 2016 can seriously go fuck off now!

For real, satire is dead because it is literally not possible to make Trump more of a horrifying caricature than he is. Like satirizing him would only make him seem less monstrous. Alec Baldwin is funny, but his Trump just seems like a pompous boob, which is truly an improvement over the real thing.
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 6:09 PM on October 18, 2016 [6 favorites]


if only other topics existed
posted by beerperson at 6:21 PM on October 18, 2016 [4 favorites]


Now ^ that ^ is satire.
posted by Greg_Ace at 6:26 PM on October 18, 2016


If Trump wins then his victory speech will just be him saying the 'The Aristocrats!"
posted by Sebmojo at 6:27 PM on October 18, 2016 [6 favorites]


I woke up and turned the radio on. Just for the weather and traffic. It told me some pygmy were murdered for not paying a tax on smoked caterpillars. I had to check my factbox to see if I heard that right. I did.
posted by adept256 at 6:28 PM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


Satire can only exist in the presence of shame and the prickling of conscience it arouses in its victim. Alas, the past few years have demonstrated that shame is woefully deficient in those amongst us who would most benefit from its discomfiting jab, which is precisely the reason we are questioning if satire is still alive or not.
posted by Chrischris at 6:39 PM on October 18, 2016 [3 favorites]


Obviously we need to jab with increased vigor. And maybe a larger needle.
posted by Greg_Ace at 6:42 PM on October 18, 2016 [3 favorites]


What has been will be again,
    what has been done will be done again;
    there is nothing new under the sun.
- Ecclesiastes 1:9 (Maybe 3000 years ago?)

Satire will be back.
posted by blue_beetle at 7:16 PM on October 18, 2016


If satire is dead the rich have truly, finally, eaten us.
posted by bonehead at 7:18 PM on October 18, 2016


Samantha Bee/Full Frontal. that is all you need to know.

Agreed. The funniest and hardest-hitting of all the late night shows. The latest episode starts with her being coaxed out of the shower after being in there for three days due to the "grab them by the pussy" thing, and then throwing up violently. It ends with a short parody in which balls replace pussy. And in between is just excellent writing and masterfully controlled satire-anger. Just great.
posted by anothermug at 7:32 PM on October 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


Can we get, like, a Captcha where you have to affirm that you've read the article before commenting? Maybe it puts a little "I read the article" flag above your post to shame you? I swear this is like the third FPP in a row I've read through where it's clear that about 1 in 10 people have actually even clicked the link.

Just a bunch of quips playing word association with the title of the post. I don't mean this as an actual feature request, but what the hell, people.

Not very convinced by the article, and yes it hit some of the "PC culture" talking points (and the Queen's eggs hypothetical... why not bring up an actual case study in "offense-taking" if your argument's valid?) but it wasn't the simple rehash people are immediately dismissing it as. And it was very very tangentially and briefly about the U.S.
posted by abrightersummerday at 7:37 PM on October 18, 2016 [8 favorites]


Another typically anglocentric article from the Grauniad. The writer is apparently ignorant of, for example, the thriving satirical cultures of much of West Africa and the Gabon, which have emerged as a vital check upon their fledgling democracies.
posted by Flashman at 7:44 PM on October 18, 2016 [5 favorites]


Some dude at the grocery asked me about my booze establishment shirt which had the tired old "Warm Beer Bad Food Lousy Service" slogan on the back, and if it was "dogging" them. So I don't know, Primus sucks.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 7:57 PM on October 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


Satire is not dead. But the people who know what satire IS, are few and far between. A dying race of intelligent people who understand that satire is not exaggeration. It's subtle. Not tearing down a walll. But adding a bit to the wall, that makes the wall different. And people look at the wall, and they may chuckle. They should think. Maybe learn. But at the very least, they should be taught by the creator that their worldview isn't the only one. Satire is a process between the creator and the receiver. Not a fight. Not a slap in the face, a dialog.
posted by Splunge at 8:05 PM on October 18, 2016


satire is not exaggeration. It's subtle.

First time I ever heard baby-eating characterized as "subtle," but maybe in 2016, it is.
posted by praemunire at 8:08 PM on October 18, 2016 [3 favorites]


We are like the kid on the swing set who tries to flip over the top bar. We did a complete 360, passed satire and are now flying to mars.
posted by pintapicasso at 8:11 PM on October 18, 2016


Dunno. Is Betteridge?
posted by quinndexter at 8:23 PM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


Primus sucks.

Primus does suck. I'm going to go research them on YouTube just to make sure.
posted by lkc at 8:50 PM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


Satire? I believe we fed that to the rich.
posted by BigHeartedGuy at 8:53 PM on October 18, 2016


The 9/11 tragedy 15 years ago tried to kill satire.

The Onion came out with 'Holy Fucking Shit: America Under Attack'.
posted by ovvl at 8:54 PM on October 18, 2016


Apart from the ritualized whining, there's some interesting stuff in the article.

One thing it doesn't mention is that maybe there aren't so many young, smart people with time and opportunity anymore. Comedians are middle class and fairly content with the system. The young people who would have been signing on and trying to break into satirical comedy are frantically working in call centres and warehouses instead.
posted by TheophileEscargot at 9:00 PM on October 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


Satire? I believe we fed that to the rich.

Then let's make 'em choke on it, by golly!!
posted by Greg_Ace at 9:00 PM on October 18, 2016


Wait, there was an article?
posted by evilDoug at 10:19 PM on October 18, 2016


Maybe the British don't understand irony.
posted by betweenthebars at 10:25 PM on October 18, 2016 [3 favorites]


I guess I don't live in contemporary Britain myself, but no, I don't think you'd stir up much outrage with an absurdist joke about a public figure's eggs?

What annoyed me about that example is that even if he's right, it doesn't matter - the joke does not need to be about the Queen's eggs specifically to work. 'Thieves have stolen the Great British pound so we've issued a new currency based on the Queen's nasal mucous' works just as well, without any hint of the mild misogyny that would upset some (and make the joke a lot dumber in my opinion). The Queen's second-best china, the Queen's toenail clippings, etc, etc. The eggs thing is so not central to that joke. It is not impossible to make satire today just because you might have to make a minor adjustment to a joke from over a decade ago.
posted by Dysk at 12:24 AM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


The article is worth it purely for this quote:
As Peter Cook said when he opened The Establishment in Soho, he was modelling it on “those wonderful Berlin cabarets … which did so much to stop the rise of Hitler and prevent the outbreak of the second world war”.

I have a paper coming out soon arguing that comedy cannot significantly change people's minds. The argument is basically that it's part of the nature of amusement that you don't feel pragmatically called upon to change your views, i.e. it's not serious. I would have thought this was obvious, though people still disagree.
posted by leibniz at 1:44 AM on October 19, 2016 [7 favorites]


For those who remember that 9/11 killed satire.
The writer of the article had a response to that too.
posted by fullerine at 2:00 AM on October 19, 2016


I wonder what Malcolm Gladwell has to say about the death of satire...

(It's an interesting piece built around Harry Enfield's 1980's character Loadsamoney although I ultimately don't agree entirely with Gladwell's point of view. Like the Zoe Williams piece, he entirely neglects to mention The Onion, surely the most consistent purveyor of satire (9/11 or otherwise) of the last 20 years)
posted by Shatner's Bassoon at 2:06 AM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


For those who remember that 9/11 killed satire.
The writer of the article had a response to that too.


I remember sitting on a train reading that article in the paper (it was accompanied by some hideously offensive infographic of the twin towers if I recall correctly) and even I, one of Chris Morris's biggest fans, found it a little unnecessary and distasteful.

EDIT: I was going to say that link is proof that comedy is tragedy plus time but then I looked up the pdf of it and there's much much more than the Guardian/Observer keep archived on their website, so make up your own minds.

But out of interest, here's what Metafilter thought about it 14 or so years ago... TLDR: polarised
posted by Shatner's Bassoon at 2:26 AM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


Interesting to see the article does not mention anything on Channel 4 - from The Last Leg to Brooker's Black Mirror, I see plenty of biting satire and smart/funny takes on the current UK political landscape. By contrast, BBC's HIGNFY feels outdated and tired. Like something from another century.
posted by kariebookish at 3:11 AM on October 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


Brooker's Black Mirror

Just looking at today's UK news and twitter, I suspect Black Mirror might soon qualify as utopian fiction, not satire.
posted by effbot at 3:52 AM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


I don't care how much Britain complains, John Oliver is ours now and they can't have him back.
posted by Halloween Jack at 5:28 AM on October 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


Please keep him. At this point, his humour is just exaggeration and enthusiasm, lacking any of the subtlety that characterises good British humour.
posted by Dysk at 5:30 AM on October 19, 2016


Satire is dead. Long live satire.
posted by littlesq at 5:41 AM on October 19, 2016


I have a paper coming out soon arguing that comedy cannot significantly change people's minds. The argument is basically that it's part of the nature of amusement that you don't feel pragmatically called upon to change your views, i.e. it's not serious. I would have thought this was obvious, though people still disagree.

Ah, good to find I'm not alone in my view on the limits of humor. And while this quote,

The thing I’ve learned over the 30 years of doing it is that satire doesn’t work. It has the opposite effect. Our outrage turns into elation and a joke. It’s a release valve.

may go a bit further than I would, I do think satire often can normalize aberrant behavior in way that is troublesome. In other words, I'm not so sure the rise of Colbert and the Daily Show and all the rest don't in fact help make someone like Trump more acceptable.
posted by gusottertrout at 5:44 AM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


All good satire must offend, and you can't deliberately offend now and still be one of the good guys...

I don't even think that this is true, but even if it is, there are certain groups of people where it matters a lot if they are offended (minorities and the vulnerable), and there are others where it matters less (the powerful). The best satire goes after the latter and doesn't touch the former.

I wish we didn't use the "you can't offend people anymore" argument to make these big statements about satire or whatever else good-old-days thing we claim is dead (punk rock, childhood etc). Like, YES YOU CAN, just for goodness sake, punch up not down.
posted by greenish at 6:28 AM on October 19, 2016 [5 favorites]


Comedy isn't quite the same thing as humor, though. Comedy entails an audience, which is going to have at least some heterogeneity, whereas humor can be done between friends with shared history. A joke you tell with your best friend might very well not be one you'd tell in front of a crowd.

Likewise, the strengths of humor are mostly seen in personal, everyday life. I've learned a lot from people turning gaffes into piquant humor; I tend to do the same, as anyone who knows me can attest. It's a way to present something difficult with a velvet glove, so to speak. You care about the person you're talking to enough to both want them to understand and not be unduly hurt, because, and this is all-important, you trust their ability to acknowledge mistakes and change. Not everyone is capable of or willing to do that. I'm not talking about direct mistakes made by the person being joked with either, that would be impolite; I mean things like sharing what someone else did as a humorous take on everyday crap. Humor is also a way to defuse the pain of microaggressions as well as larger ones. A few days ago I was asked why I "still have an American accent when I speak English" and did not feel too light-hearted when hearing it from the person who then specified that "after 20 years in France I should really be able to speak English understandably for French people." Telling the story as-is to similarly "non-French" friends helps defuse it as we share the myriad ways it's ridiculous and translates blind privilege. (FWIW my response to the original person's remark was "everyone has an accent." They were speechless at the realization. *shrug*)

That's a very different sort of humor from jokes at others' expense in front of a heterogenous public. It does seem like taking the piss out of others has become widely accepted as a valid way to disempower groups of people we disagree with, which yes, is not cool. It glosses over a lot of individual specificities that could otherwise enrich our views, but the individuals concerned then feel alienated not only from the people satirizing their group, but also from their group, with whom they have differences.
posted by fraula at 6:59 AM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


Whenever I see articles like this, I like to remind people that one of the great sages of satire, Tom Lehrer, declared satire obsolete (not dead, it was a classier decade) in 1973 after Kissinger was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize. Satire will return. However, I do think it is finally recognizing that shitting on people who normally get a great big helping of shit from society as a whole gets tiresome quickly. The best satire mocks those in power for the reasons they are powerful. This is two years old, but could easily be published today. It's good satire.

It's also Sturgeon's law in action. There is going to be a great deal of crappy "satire" out there. And given how easily stuff is distributed these days, it's probably easy to find the lousy stuff or lose the good among the bad.
posted by Hactar at 7:12 AM on October 19, 2016


I guess I don't live in contemporary Britain myself,

Is this satire?
posted by srboisvert at 7:12 AM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


Hmmm. Isn't this a reflection of the age of the writer? "My comedy isn't cool now, so there is no comedy!"

The kids, meanwhile, are watching Ballot Monkeys and Power Monkeys on Channel 4, Mock the Week on the BBC, and reading The Daily Mash and NewsThump.
posted by alasdair at 7:12 AM on October 19, 2016


Comedy isn't quite the same thing as humor, though.

That's a good point, one which I elided since I was just responding to the thoughts in the article and assuming an audience. Yes, I completely agree, humor is something larger than just satire, or whatever passes for satire, and it indeed does have a number of important functions.
posted by gusottertrout at 8:02 AM on October 19, 2016


I wish we didn't use the "you can't offend people anymore" argument to make these big statements about satire or whatever else good-old-days thing we claim is dead (punk rock, childhood etc). Like, YES YOU CAN, just for goodness sake, punch up not down.

The breadth of disagreements regarding on who's "up" and who's "down" for any power relationship make this advice of limited value.

For example, the Roman Catholic Church is enormously powerful and influential. Therefore, cracking a bit like “Tina Belcher is my patron saint” is clearly a small “punching up” joke, right? From my perspective, it's a minor bit that works by trivializing the imagery of a titanic cultural power, a power that does not hesitate to exert its enormous influence upon the world. Clearly, “punching up.” From the perspective of many aggrieved Catholics, the joke would be seen as yet another example of widespread anti-Catholic sentiment that dominates the public discourse, another dig at their most prized beliefs from the mighty secular world that seeks to neuter or end their faith. Clearly, “punching down.”

Take Scott Adams, the Dilbert-writing butthole. When he busts on women, he thinks he's punching up.

When joke writing, you have to do your best to understand real-world power relations and context and do the best you can. You also have to expect that a lot of people will think you don't understand shit and regard you as a callous piece of shit who tosses salt on open wounds to laugh at the results. Your job is to decide who you want to hate you. Don't make that choice unconsciously. Think it through.

And for fuck's sake, don't water down a satirical joke to avoid offense. If the joke stands a decent chance of blowing up in your face in a way you won't like, don't tell it. Watered-down jokes are worse than keeping silent. They're pure smarm. For another fuck's sake, telling a comedian to replace the offensive part of a joke with something inoffensive is like telling a musician to replace all C-sharps in a song with C-flats. The notes are the way they are for a reason. Yeah, he or she could still play the song, but it won't work anymore. The balance of the piece will be off subtly, almost certain to sink the whole goddamn thing. Better to write another song.
posted by Harvey Jerkwater at 9:39 AM on October 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


Humor has defied analysis since at least the time of Comte. The other day the local NPR interviewer was turned around on his show and interviewed about his new book

Let There Be Laughter: A Treasury of Great Jewish Humor and What It All Means

It was one of the saddest things I ever heard. He was trying so hard. And it was so dull and not funny. The book seems to be positively reviewed. You would have to pay me at overtime scale to read the thing.
posted by bukvich at 10:52 AM on October 19, 2016


It was killed when Bush posted that tweet with the gun with his name on it.
posted by NiteMayr at 11:04 AM on October 19, 2016


What if satire... was bad?
posted by Artw at 2:15 PM on October 21, 2016


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