Alexander Hamilton's beany guacamole dip: 18 days to go
October 21, 2016 2:15 PM   Subscribe

With the final debate behind us (MetaFilter), many people registered and many states now voting, we're into the last few weeks of this increasingly globally watched 2016 US election. These are unhappy days for Donald, with that debate not going well for him and launching a hundred t-shirt designs, the map shrinking, likely voters not helping, and being booed at a charity dinner; sad! Hillary, at increasingly shorter odds to win, seems to be having a better time, while Joe has a hot car (MetaFilter) and Evan McMullin (who) (twitter) continues to make the presidential vote in Utah more interesting. But it's not just the presidency up for election; there's the Senate (538 forecast), House, and various measures such as the minimum wage, and 17 propositions in California (also on MetaFilter), plus a crucial vote in Westport.

Resources
* Ballotpedia has a mass of election resources.
* Plan your election day; again from Ballotpedia, state-by-state poll opening and closing times.
* Voter information by lampshade.
* The MeFites United team at the Hillary for America online call tool. n.b. searched but could not find similar for other POTUS candidates; comment if you know/find similar.
* How to vote in every state by NoxAeternum.
* Voter Registration Deadlines, by Rock The Vote.

Voting accessibility, and voter ID, registration and suppression continue to be concerns on many fronts. For example, in Indiana, the VP candidate Mike Pence is accused of such suppression (more), while in Wisconsin yet more rule changes make voting trickier, in North Carolina early voting is hindered by long lines and in Texas, ads are now running including the word 'reasonably'. Various states ignore orders to restore voter rights, and a myriad of other problems could cause problems on election day, while Snopes has some clarity on the widely-circulated images of responding to poll watchers.

Stop the election I want to get off
- AskMeFi: Wanted: distracting internet stuff, NOT politics or current events
- ...it's really important for you to give yourself a break from this if it's negatively affecting your life (by Deoridhe)
- Best of MetaFilter (contains occasional election links).
- Southern California Public Radio: How to avoid getting stressed by the election.
- A collection of Slow TV videos.
- To see The Blue without certain posts, edit your MeFi Preferences to exclude tags such as Election2016, Trump, Clinton, EvanBecomesPOTUS etc.

As Europe watches goings-on, people trying to influence the outcome include a fugitive (not murdered) and his leaks, a Whitewater Committee special counsel, a fan of both Tolkien and Ayn Rand, the creator of Power Rangers and a TV host who never claimed to be a journalist. However, Vladimir denies trying to influence the result, but would like his people to go monitor the election.

Take it to MetaTalk:
- October 19th: Mefite Election Volunteering.
- October 15th: Can we stop attacking left-of-Clinton/anti-establishment folks on here?
- October 14th: [some appropriate and witty Hamilton post title here] (death of MetaFilter, 2016 edition).
- September 26th: The Election Debate Logistics Thread.

MetaFilter nostalgia: the 2014 US midterm election (please ignore the final paragraph).

Suggested election night cuisine:
- Pro-Trump voters.
- Anti-Trump Republican voters.
- Democrats.
- Greens.
- Evan McMullin supporters.
- Gary Johnson supporters (because).
- People who write in the current POTUS for a third term.

Post title because MeFites.
posted by Wordshore (3838 comments total) 126 users marked this as a favorite
 
Pardon me!
posted by chavenet at 2:17 PM on October 21, 2016 [9 favorites]


I finally made it to the bottom of an election thread!
posted by carsonb at 2:17 PM on October 21, 2016 [41 favorites]


damnthispostisgood.org
posted by zutalors! at 2:18 PM on October 21, 2016 [10 favorites]


Told someone I would eat a shoe if Clinton won the second district in Maine and now she's ahead there.

Anyone know of any particularly edible footwear?
posted by selfnoise at 2:19 PM on October 21, 2016 [29 favorites]


For God's sake give Hillary the presidency now and spare us the next three weeks, okay? Just get this shit over with for crying out loud.
posted by spoobnooble II: electric bugaboo at 2:19 PM on October 21, 2016 [22 favorites]


It's all in the sauce
posted by From Bklyn at 2:20 PM on October 21, 2016 [2 favorites]


Post title because MeFites.

#NextPost "Farmer Refuted"
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 2:20 PM on October 21, 2016 [18 favorites]


Or you could play Civilization VI instead. That's where I'll be hiding for the remainder of this month. Good luck America. This Canadian hopes you make the right choice. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to declare war on Harald Hardrada of Norway, that bastard thinks he can renege on an open borders treaty....
posted by Fizz at 2:21 PM on October 21, 2016 [26 favorites]


The ballot propositions in California are a lot to swallow. I had some help from a fellow MeFite on Faceboobs, who helpfully provided clear-eyed analysis from a lefty, liberal, schoolteacher's perspective.
posted by carsonb at 2:22 PM on October 21, 2016 [14 favorites]


Programming announcement: the Hamilton Documentary: "Hamilton's America" is on PBS tonight (9pm for me, but check your local listing to be safe) and streaming on Facebook at 9pm Eastern.

I'll try to see if we can get a FanFare thread for it.
posted by zachlipton at 2:22 PM on October 21, 2016 [16 favorites]


Things have been getting kind of out of hand so everyone, please read all the links in the post before commenting so we can have an informed discussion
posted by beerperson at 2:22 PM on October 21, 2016 [57 favorites]


PEC's meta margin for the Senate races is up to 1.7% today, the largest I can recall it being. From here on out, it's all about the down-ballot. HRC could be caught on video burying a fetus on the south lawn of the White House and she will still win. But the extent to which the Senate and House fall into line will have enormous significance for her presidency.
posted by MoonOrb at 2:23 PM on October 21, 2016 [4 favorites]


Anyone know of any particularly edible footwear?

you can make one out of fruit leather, im almost 100% sure i have seen the instructables for it
posted by poffin boffin at 2:24 PM on October 21, 2016 [25 favorites]


Lot of marijuana initiatives on ballots, I wonder what effect that will have.
posted by Chrysostom at 2:24 PM on October 21, 2016


damnthispostisgood.org

Now redirects to hillaryclinton.com! Wow her team is great!

cf. thatmexicanthing.com, nastywomengetshitdone.com
posted by phunniemee at 2:24 PM on October 21, 2016 [5 favorites]


We're now in fifth place? Where did H and AFT come from?
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 2:27 PM on October 21, 2016 [2 favorites]



Lot of marijuana initiatives on ballots, I wonder what effect that will have.

It's already had an effect here. When I went to renew my medical use card the doctor was extra strict about declaring the need and documenting the traditional treatments I'd rejected.
posted by carsonb at 2:28 PM on October 21, 2016


Chrysostom, if my social circle is any kind of representation, it will increase turnout among stoners, most of whom I would like to think are lefty types. Some of them will vote third party though, because by and large we're a pretty disaffected bunch.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 2:28 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]


i want to travel back in time wearing an alexander hamilton costume to terrify baby lin-manuel in his crib, thus saving us all from the endless horrors of hamilmania
posted by poffin boffin at 2:29 PM on October 21, 2016 [46 favorites]


For God's sake give Hillary the presidency now and spare us the next three weeks, okay?

*vibrates*
It's not three weeks; it's only 18 days, OK? That's 72 fewer hours of misery. I couldn't stand three more weeks.
*breathes into bag*
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:30 PM on October 21, 2016 [24 favorites]


Edible (mostly chocolate) footwear

Pointers on how to eat one's shoe.
posted by porpoise at 2:30 PM on October 21, 2016 [4 favorites]


Yeah, my sister (20s, wealthy, white, straight) is a single-issue voter and was delighted to learn that all four candidates more or less support the decriminalization of marijuana. She was leaning Trump, and we had some unpleasant conversations. But then I searched our voter registrations and found out she's literally never voted!! And isn't registered to vote now. So I'm happy to throw up my hands and say oh well, she'll get what she wants in the end.
posted by witchen at 2:31 PM on October 21, 2016 [37 favorites]


i want to travel back in time wearing an alexander hamilton costume to terrify baby lin-manuel in his crib, thus saving us all from the endless horrors of hamilmania

Last night, Darth Vader came down from Planet Vulcan and told me that if I write a musical about Alexander Hamilton that he'd melt my brain!
posted by beerperson at 2:34 PM on October 21, 2016 [54 favorites]


OMG it's my first election thread where I come to the new thread before it's already too long to even bother reading in full!
posted by Sara C. at 2:35 PM on October 21, 2016 [11 favorites]


The National Review's David French on how be an early #NeverTrumper has led to his family expericing a full year of toxic harrassment.

I vaguely remember hearing that rumor that he was thinking of running for President himself, and he struck me as more than a little vainglorious at the time. But the experience he recounts here is nothing short of horrifying, though I can't quite call it surprising either. I wonder if his opening up about this will do anything the change the conversation in the GOP after the election...
posted by Diablevert at 2:35 PM on October 21, 2016 [11 favorites]


I have 99 problems.
48 are related to my work and personal life.
HAMILTON IS
THE OTHER 51!
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 2:37 PM on October 21, 2016 [119 favorites]


Unless you are a vegetarian, you could make meatloafers.
posted by GenjiandProust at 2:39 PM on October 21, 2016 [39 favorites]


Something I forgot to mention in the previous thread; early this morning I was listening to a couple guys who were reading the headlines of USA Today about the debate. One of the guys got this look of disgust on his face and asked the other one if he watched the debate. His pal said no, he wasn't interested, and the first guy said it was so damn annoying he couldn't stand it. He said "He had liked Donald better, but..." and his look just soured as he dropped the topic.

Looks like even some of Donald's fans are starting to get a little tired of him now. These guys really don't like a loser.

Oh, and bookmark!
posted by gusottertrout at 2:39 PM on October 21, 2016 [3 favorites]


posted by Chrysostom Lot of marijuana initiatives on ballots, I wonder what effect that will have.

An uptick in snack-food sales near the polls.
posted by mattdidthat at 2:39 PM on October 21, 2016 [5 favorites]


WA Voting Update: I'm filling out my ballot in Seattle, WA right now even as you read this comments thread!
posted by scaryblackdeath at 2:40 PM on October 21, 2016 [18 favorites]


beerperson: Things have been getting kind of out of hand so everyone, please read all the links in the post before commenting so we can have an informed discussion

This was one of the jokes that Clinton decided not to tell at the Al Smith dinner.
posted by clawsoon at 2:41 PM on October 21, 2016 [25 favorites]




I want more Hamilton and am frankly unhappy we have moved away from Hamilton titles. Yes, I am the cancer killing metafilter but I am okay with that.
posted by asteria at 2:43 PM on October 21, 2016 [63 favorites]


Stop the election I want to get off

Another option for absorbing yourself in something non-election-related: Civilization VI is out today.
posted by asperity at 2:43 PM on October 21, 2016 [6 favorites]


While the political pundits have reached a consensus on how Clinton's debate strategy outplayed Trump at the debates, Vox's TV critic has an interesting interpretation on why Trump's own tactics flopped:

Trump’s “Winners and Losers” Mentality Made Him a Hit on Reality TV But a Flop in the Debates

(Once this election is over, media critics are, I predict, going to have a field day dissecting Trump's campaign as the worst season of reality TV ever.)
posted by Doktor Zed at 2:44 PM on October 21, 2016 [10 favorites]


> Anyone know of any particularly edible footwear?

Lucky for you this is apparently a thing.
posted by ardgedee at 2:47 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]


> Lot of marijuana initiatives on ballots, I wonder what effect that will have.

Shoes are gonna look even more delicious, I'm guessing.
posted by ardgedee at 2:48 PM on October 21, 2016 [27 favorites]


But the experience he recounts here is nothing short of horrifying, though I can't quite call it surprising either

Pretty sure his magazine didn't care when the targets were women daring to talk critically about video games. It was okay then, apparently. But when the target is a conservative pundit, then well! Gloves are off!
posted by suelac at 2:49 PM on October 21, 2016 [11 favorites]


Know what? I'm gonna buy Civ VI and get it loading on my computer right now as a reward for voting.

Also, as I imagine most Washingtonians on MeFi can appreciate: Every time I fill in the bubble on a ballot initiative, I like to imagine I'm rubbing a pen in Tim Eyman's stupid eyes. Like I'm filling it in with the Ink of Disdain!
posted by scaryblackdeath at 2:49 PM on October 21, 2016 [32 favorites]


Trump flopped at the debates with Cinton because the events didn't have Mark Burnett's Fake Reality TV Crew editing his performance to make him look less like a blathering idiot.
posted by oneswellfoop at 2:50 PM on October 21, 2016 [15 favorites]


Unless you are a vegetarian, you could make meatloafers.

i'm a reasonably accomplished vegan home cook and pretty sure i could turn out some vegan meatloafers. anyone feel free to memail me if they need to consult about crafting a pair
posted by Gymnopedist at 2:52 PM on October 21, 2016 [11 favorites]


Lot of marijuana initiatives on ballots, I wonder what effect that will have.

I'm not sure how it will impact my co-op.
posted by Room 641-A at 2:55 PM on October 21, 2016


Diablevert: "I wonder if his opening up about this will do anything the change the conversation in the GOP after the election..."

SPOILER: Nope.
posted by Chrysostom at 2:55 PM on October 21, 2016 [8 favorites]


I feel like I can distantly sense Sopan Deb slipping into sympathetic madness just looking at this tweet:

Trump on bridges: "You almost don’t want to ride across. Does anybody ever want to swim and just relax? Know you’re going to be alive?"

Uh, is Trump going to be...okay for the next 18 days? I guess I understand what he's saying here? But it's also somewhat concerning.
posted by yasaman at 2:56 PM on October 21, 2016 [7 favorites]


Alaska: Hillary Commit Calls
Team Alaska needs 3 calls from each member of Hillary's Call Team today!

Georgia: Hillary Commit Calls
Team GA needs 27 calls from each member of Hillary's Call Team today to keep Georgia in play!


GA is needy!
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 3:00 PM on October 21, 2016 [7 favorites]


Another option for absorbing yourself in something non-election-related: Civilization VI is out today.

True, this election has very little to do with civilization in any form.
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 3:01 PM on October 21, 2016 [4 favorites]


Pretty sure his magazine didn't care when the targets were women daring to talk critically about video games. It was okay then, apparently. But when the target is a conservative pundit, then well! Gloves are off!

I have no idea what, if anything, the National Review ever published on the subject of gamergate, and I'm not going to spend any time filling that gap in my knowledge. I'm sure they weren't leading the charge against. But that's why I found the article interesting: The rabid dog is locked in the house with them. It's one thing for relatively sane GOPers not to call out this shit when it happens to other people because they fear losing votes from Trump supporters. It's another thing to try and hold a party together when the threat of this kind of treatment is hanging over their own heads like the Sword of Damocles. The Reagan rule was no enemies to my right; can any sane pol look at these guys and call them friend? Trump is the iceberg, the GOP's the Titanic.
posted by Diablevert at 3:01 PM on October 21, 2016 [4 favorites]


Does anybody ever want to swim and just relax?

yeah, but someone's small little hands keep reaching for things that aren't his
posted by pyramid termite at 3:02 PM on October 21, 2016 [8 favorites]


Trump flopped at the debates with Cinton because the events didn't have Mark Burnett's Fake Reality TV Crew editing his performance to make him look less like a blathering idiot.

He probably figured, I crushed at the primary debates, no problem, I got this. TRUMP has got this! He certainly seems to have winged them, assuming it wasn't disinfo from his campaign about how he didn't do hard prep work. I don't think it was.
posted by thelonius at 3:04 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]


I would just like to confess that I have failed to meet the Tehhund standard and now heave such a giant sigh of relief when I see [637 new comments] on the old election thread and then before I click on them I open up MF in a new tab and hop straight to the new election thread instead.... In short: Tehhund, I salute you.
posted by TwoStride at 3:05 PM on October 21, 2016 [23 favorites]


No, I really can't think of a situation where I've come across a bridge large enough to qualify as "infrastructure," even a structurally deficient one, and thought "yeah, it would be way more relaxing to swim this one," somehow dragging a car and personal belongings behind me.

And I know how very much not relaxing "ford the river" is as an option.
posted by zachlipton at 3:05 PM on October 21, 2016 [18 favorites]


A few weeks back I was in the Bay and happened to pick a dress off a sale rack to have a closer look at the rather interesting fabric. I caught sight of the "Ivanka Trump" tag in the back and put the dress back as quickly as though it had burnt my fingers. A solid majority of North Americans are going to be unwilling to patronize Trump businesses post-election on principle, businesses and organizations that might otherwise not care are going to avoid associating themselves with the Trump name because it'll be a PR nightmare and/or because they now know that Trump doesn't pay his bills, and well, marketing and licensing of the Trump name is the core of the Trump empire.

Trump's defeat at the polls will only be the beginning of a final downward spiral. He faces civil trials for the alleged sexual assault of a 13-year-old and for his Trump University fraud. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the increased media scrutiny and publicity ultimately leads to more civil and even criminal trials. (And you know he'll commit perjury during the trials.) His debt load has been increasingly dramatically in recent years and bankers have become generally unwilling to loan him money because of his atrocious business record and his tendency to not pay his bills if he thinks he can get away with it. Given the way he's basically destroyed his own brand and the fact that he's an incompetent businessman as well as a horrible person at the best of times... he's going nowhere but down. I'm pretty sure Melania will bail at some point too. I'd be very surprised if he manages to marry again after that with his finances in ruins.

Trump reminds me of the Aesop's fable about the dog that was crossing a bridge with meat in its mouth, saw its own reflection in the water, and dropped its meat into the water in an effort to get the "other" dog's meat. His narcissism made him think he could become president despite his complete lack of experience and qualifications for the job, and now he's going to lose what he had. And I'm imagining Hillary watching TV in her living room at the White House, feet propped up after another long and productive day as president, and smiling a little to herself as she sees the next news item about the gradual and total financial and personal disintegration of the man who slandered her, threatened to jail her, incited violence against her, and took it upon himself to criticize her ass.
posted by orange swan at 3:06 PM on October 21, 2016 [164 favorites]


> The ballot propositions in California are a lot to swallow. I had some help from a fellow MeFite on Faceboobs, who helpfully provided clear-eyed analysis from a lefty, liberal, schoolteacher's perspective.

carsonb, you can peruse this fpp from a few days ago, too.
posted by rtha at 3:07 PM on October 21, 2016 [7 favorites]


Does anybody ever want to swim and just relax? Know you’re going to be alive?

INT. LIMOUSINE - DAY - TRAVELING

Trump gazes across the Allegheny River. As we zoom in on a single sailboat, its sail barely fluttering, we hear Lou Reed's "Perfect Day".
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 3:07 PM on October 21, 2016 [8 favorites]


I have been amazed to see how good HRC is at manipulating the Donald. He is putty in her hands.
posted by Alluring Mouthbreather at 3:08 PM on October 21, 2016 [4 favorites]


After this:
> Unless you are a vegetarian, you could make meatloafers.

And this (previous thread):
>>Trump’s roast
>Mmmmm ... Trump roast.

I am now definitely making rump roast on election night. Mmmmm...

Recipe for "Trump Roast with Bed-wetter's Risotto" coming up.
posted by kleinsteradikaleminderheit at 3:08 PM on October 21, 2016 [4 favorites]


Re: edible shoes: how about making huaraches?
posted by janewman at 3:11 PM on October 21, 2016 [3 favorites]


The Economist has still not offered its endorsement, but does refer to Clinton as "America's probable next President" in an article about why so many people seem to hate her (most, it concludes, irrationally) and offers a comparison of Clinton '16 vs Obama '12 - it asserts she's actually ahead more broadly than he was four years ago.

Also, from 1992: "The central point about Mrs Clinton, however, is that she is being judged by an absurd double-standard." Well!
posted by psoas at 3:11 PM on October 21, 2016 [12 favorites]


Salma Hayek: I Denied Trump A Date, So He Planted A National Enquirer Story About My Height

A Republican flirting with, then betraying Hayek when it didn't work out? We used to call that Reaganomics.
posted by condour75 at 3:13 PM on October 21, 2016 [161 favorites]


I just want it over just so I'm not subjected to these endless ads for local races. I saw one last night from a guy running for Attorney General, promising to "curb Washington's overreach." WTF does that even mean? "I'm not going to enforce any laws I don't care for?"
posted by Thorzdad at 3:13 PM on October 21, 2016 [4 favorites]


I saw Trump touch Hillary at least four times last night. Wapo had a picture with him with his hand on her, front page today. What a clueless knucklehead.
posted by Oyéah at 3:14 PM on October 21, 2016


I've been living this election for the past 18 months and am honestly a little lost about what to do once it's over (other than start salivating for the 2020 GOP primary debates). Will I find a new hobby? Will I start doing audiobooks again once the explosion of election-related podcasts subsides? I knew this day would come eventually, but I fear I have become a man of a dying era. Whispered stories will tell of the madman who never stopped thinking about the 2016 election. Was Sammy Jenkins the running mate, or the candidate?
posted by 0xFCAF at 3:15 PM on October 21, 2016 [13 favorites]


Trump's got new policy everyone: "I will work with Congress to require for every one new regulation, two old regulations must be immediately eliminated."

First, we've got 17 days to go. Who the hell decides to roll out new policy at this point in the game?

But how does this even work? Do the regulations have to be equivalent, either in scale or in topic? If we want to, I don't know, limit the amount of a dangerous chemical in drinking water, do we have to allow arsenic or can we repeal the regulation that says that locomotive engineers need access to an operable restroom on their train (this is actually considered a safety regulation, with good reason)? We just issued an emergency regulation banning the Galaxy Note 7 on planes; would we have to delay that effort while someone combed through the CFR looking for something that sounds stupid so they can repeal it?

Anyway, I know what regulation Trump would start with: 42 USC §6928 & 40 CFR §257.3–7(a) make it a federal crime to start an uncontrolled toxic garbage fire.
posted by zachlipton at 3:16 PM on October 21, 2016 [55 favorites]


orange swan: A solid majority of North Americans are going to be unwilling to patronize Trump businesses post-election on principle, businesses and organizations that might otherwise not care are going to avoid associating themselves with the Trump name because it'll be a PR nightmare and/or because they now know that Trump doesn't pay his bills, and well, marketing and licensing of the Trump name is the core of the Trump empire.

Aye, but he has also created a solid minority of rabid followers who may be willing to pay good money for pure bullshit, a resource which Trump has proven he is able to supply in great abundance.
posted by clawsoon at 3:16 PM on October 21, 2016 [7 favorites]


Yeah, I'm subscribed to three election related podcasts right now.
posted by Alluring Mouthbreather at 3:17 PM on October 21, 2016


Salma Hayek: I Denied Trump A Date, So He Planted A National Enquirer Story About My Height

Based on the headline alone, I thought this was going to be some kind of petty vengeance thing, which was bad enough. But then I read the story and realized it was an epic attempt at negging on the grandest scale.

Yuck. Trump was the original PUA.
posted by Joey Buttafoucault at 3:17 PM on October 21, 2016 [13 favorites]


When Trump loses, I bet the Secret Service radio chatter will be amusing.

*radio crackles, chirps*

SECRET SERVICE AGENT SMITH: All posts, election is over. Prepare to stand down. Where is Pumpkin?

SECRET SERVICE AGENT JONES: Pumpkin is tweeting, asking for address of White House. Wants to know if we can give him a ride to Sbarros, and the airport.

SECRET SERVICE AGENT SMITH: Affirmative. Confirm Pumpkin uses Lyft, bill him for a Premium.

SECRET SERVICE AGENT JONES: Pumpkin says he uses Uber and we're fired.

SECRET SERVICE AGENT SMITH: Copy that.
posted by mattdidthat at 3:18 PM on October 21, 2016 [17 favorites]


i want to travel back in time wearing an alexander hamilton costume to terrify baby lin-manuel in his crib

And that little boy grew up to write America's favorite musical, The Hambeast.
posted by octobersurprise at 3:18 PM on October 21, 2016 [16 favorites]


Trump's got new policy everyone: "I will work with Congress to require for every one new regulation, two old regulations must be immediately eliminated."

There are too many states nowadays. Please eliminate three. I am not a crackpot.
posted by tonycpsu at 3:19 PM on October 21, 2016 [26 favorites]


Huh. Salma Hayek Is ridiculously out of Trump's league in every conceivable way.
posted by Artw at 3:19 PM on October 21, 2016 [22 favorites]


Salma Hayek: I Denied Trump A Date, So He Planted A National Enquirer Story About My Height

He didn't just ask her out, he befriended her boyfriend so he could get her phone number.
posted by kirkaracha at 3:19 PM on October 21, 2016 [7 favorites]


Is it too soon to start a pool on when the election will be called on Tuesday night, the 8th? I want to choose 9:38 Central Time as when the first major network calls the Presidential race.
posted by Midnight Skulker at 3:19 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]


Trump on bridges: "You almost don’t want to ride across. Does anybody ever want to swim and just relax? Know you’re going to be alive?"

OMG I am learning to speak Trump. I read the whole thing and understand what he is trying to say.

Help me..
posted by Jalliah at 3:21 PM on October 21, 2016 [10 favorites]


I would just like to confess that I have failed to meet the Tehhund standard and now heave such a giant sigh of relief when I see [637 new comments] on the old election thread and then before I click on them I open up MF in a new tab and hop straight to the new election thread instead.... In short: Tehhund, I salute you.

Yeah, I used to read every comment in every thread. Then I got really busy at work and couldn't slack it as much. Now I'll read through what I can, but generally skip over anything between the hours of midnight to 6AM. And skimming past derails. And taking hour or so sanity breaks when it all gets too ridiculous. Gotta triage these things.
posted by downtohisturtles at 3:22 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]


Also, as I imagine most Washingtonians on MeFi can appreciate: Every time I fill in the bubble on a ballot initiative, I like to imagine I'm rubbing a pen in Tim Eyman's stupid eyes.

I voted for every tax-y thing that I could and chanted to myself FUCK YOU TIM FUCKING EYMAN and it was very satisfying.

Also, my ballot is now happily deposited in a ballot collection box.
posted by MoonOrb at 3:22 PM on October 21, 2016 [26 favorites]



Trump's got new policy everyone: "I will work with Congress to require for every one new regulation, two old regulations must be immediately eliminated."


Repealing regulations is subject to the same "can't be arbitrary and capricious" standard as adopting regulations. So, good luck with that.
posted by melissasaurus at 3:22 PM on October 21, 2016 [6 favorites]


> Is it too soon to start a pool on when the election will be called on Tuesday night, the 8th? I want to choose 9:38 Central Time as when the first major network calls the Presidential race.

(overseas) betting companies are already calling Clinton the winner, and they have skin in that game.
posted by ardgedee at 3:22 PM on October 21, 2016 [2 favorites]


Is it too soon to start a pool on when the election will be called on Tuesday night, the 8th?

A friend of mine has been saying "Nine Forty."

When pressed he'll explain; 9PM, 40 states.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 3:23 PM on October 21, 2016 [5 favorites]


Repealing regulations is subject to the same "can't be arbitrary and capricious" standard as adopting regulations. So, good luck with that.

If only this standard also applied to being President.
posted by No-sword at 3:24 PM on October 21, 2016 [7 favorites]


I caught sight of the "Ivanka Trump" tag in the back and put the dress back as quickly as though it had burnt my fingers

My mom called me the other day to bemoan how she'd been at the mall and seen several dresses that she really liked and wanted to try on... until she saw the Ivanka Trump label and refused. She was disappointed at not being able to buy the dress, but said there was no way she could imagine supporting that family in any way, no matter how faint...
posted by TwoStride at 3:24 PM on October 21, 2016 [23 favorites]


Erick Erickson is calling 9:05.

Networks may hold off a little while longer. But we'll know it's over.

(Still we cling... We don't know where else we can go...)
posted by downtohisturtles at 3:26 PM on October 21, 2016 [6 favorites]


By 10:25 Central, Hillary will not only have had the Presidential race called for her, but she will also have been awarded the Prime Ministership of Spain, the Lady Byng Trophy, the title of Human Tornado and the DDT Ironman Heavymetalweight championship belt.
posted by delfin at 3:26 PM on October 21, 2016 [37 favorites]


Trump translation: Pennsylvania has a problem with bridge infastructure. Many of them are structurally deficient. Some are so bad that it's scary to drive over them. So bad that you'd feel safer and more relaxed swimming instead of driving on them. My plan is to fix these bridges.
posted by Jalliah at 3:27 PM on October 21, 2016 [7 favorites]


“What a waste of time if we don’t pull this off,” Trump said. “You know, these guys have said: ‘It doesn’t matter if you win or lose, there’s never been a movement like this in the history of this country.’ I say: It matters to me if we win or lose. So, I’ll have over $100 million of my own money in this campaign."

“So, if I lose,” Trump continued, as the crowd remained unusually quiet. “If I lose, I will consider this. . .”

Trump didn’t finish his sentence, but he didn’t really need to. After weeks of controversy and declining poll numbers, Trump and his campaign have settled into a dark funk. Even as he vows to prevail in the race, the GOP nominee’s mood has soured with less than three weeks to go until Election Day.
Stimulate your schadenfreude gland with this WaPo article: Donald Trump is in a funk: Bitter, hoarse and pondering, ‘If I lose. . .’
posted by glhaynes at 3:27 PM on October 21, 2016 [7 favorites]


Salma Hayek: I Denied Trump A Date, So He Planted A National Enquirer Story About My Height

A Republican flirting with, then betraying Hayek when it didn't work out? We used to call that Reaganomics.
posted by condour75 at 3:13 PM on October 21 [10 favorites −] Favorite added! [!]


You win this thread.
posted by chavenet at 3:27 PM on October 21, 2016 [19 favorites]


Aye, but he has also created a solid minority of rabid followers who may be willing to pay good money for pure bullshit, a resource which Trump has proven he is able to supply in great abundance.

While this is true, he would still have to have to get the funding and hire designers, manufacturers, marketing/sales and distributors in order to get his products to his market. (Can you imagine any major chain store being willing to stock his products? Even Wal-Mart?) All of that will be an uphill battle, and then it's all to get products to people who don't have much money as his supporters tend to be low-income. And let's remember, he had a long list of failed business products even before he destroyed his own brand.
posted by orange swan at 3:29 PM on October 21, 2016 [2 favorites]


You people are all tempting the wrath from high atop the thing.
posted by zachlipton at 3:35 PM on October 21, 2016 [110 favorites]


You want to watch this. A new video about Clinton's impact with the Children's Defense Fund and Children's Health Insurance.

Martha and Sara
posted by chris24 at 3:38 PM on October 21, 2016 [28 favorites]


Not to rehash the Russia conversation from the other thread, but bringing up McCarthy is interesting- is Trump basically the McCarthy of our times not just in terms of accusing American citizens and inspiring witch hunts, but by flaming out in the worst of ways after having shaken American politics to their core, causing society to simply shrug, "Well, that was weird" and move on?

Because the Trump campaign will either be McCarthy, where millions of Americans leave the bad dream, or he'll be Nixon, where his actions and character will poison the political atmosphere for decades. This might be a simplistic dichotomy so I'm open to suggestions on revising this model.
posted by Apocryphon at 3:40 PM on October 21, 2016 [15 favorites]


Is it too soon to start a pool on when the election will be called on Tuesday night, the 8th?

Going through the 538 current electoral map, she only gets to 266 by 9PM EST, even if every swing state is called right away and she definitely takes "light blue" states like Ohio and Iowa (where polls don't close till 10PM EST anyhow).

Oregon* closes in the 10PM EST hour, however, which should put her easily over 270. So I'm saying 10PM EST assuming there are no "too close to call" states and/or she doesn't take either Texas, Georgia, Mississippi, or Utah.

Poll closing information from here.

*Oregon is exclusively vote-by-mail, though, right? So what does that 10PM time constitute? Can Oregon be called before then?
posted by Sara C. at 3:41 PM on October 21, 2016 [4 favorites]


My plan is to fix these bridges.

Maybe Trump should just run for governor of Pennsylvania or something. Like, why is this a national election issue?
posted by Sara C. at 3:43 PM on October 21, 2016 [2 favorites]


No, Oregon results don't happen until our polls are "closed". They should be called within a couple minutes of closing, though.
posted by a box and a stick and a string and a bear at 3:44 PM on October 21, 2016


So, then yeah, barring a red state miracle or swing states being too close to call when the polls close, my prediction is somewhere in the 10PM EST/7PM PST hour.
posted by Sara C. at 3:48 PM on October 21, 2016


You won't be able to go to bed then, though. Stay up and see how blue we can make Congress.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:52 PM on October 21, 2016 [11 favorites]


Salma Hayek: I Denied Trump A Date, So He Planted A National Enquirer Story About My Height

I'm in fear that even one person in this thread will fail to click through to read this stupendous story:
“When I told him I wouldn’t go out with him even if I didn’t have a boyfriend, [which he took as disrespectful], he called — well, he wouldn’t say he called, but someone told the National Enquirer,” Hayek continued, adding that she never went out with him.

“Someone told the National Enquirer — I’m not going to say who, because you know that whatever he wants to come out comes out in the National Enquirer. It said that he wouldn’t go out with me because I was too short,” she said.

“Later, he called and left me a message. ‘Can you believe this? Who would say this? I don’t want people to think this about you,’” she said. “He thought that I would try to go out with him so people wouldn’t think that’s why he wouldn’t go out with me.”
"Oh Salma, I would hate to think people thought you failed to land Trump because despite being one of the most beautiful women on Earth and a talented actress, you're on the shorter side. Thankfully I have just the solution, one that only I can provide: a date with Trump!"

And now Salma is married to an actual billionaire.
posted by sallybrown at 3:54 PM on October 21, 2016 [92 favorites]


PA gov election not until 2018.
posted by Chrysostom at 3:54 PM on October 21, 2016


All I want for Christmas is Arizona blue.

@chrislhayes
Jan Brewer says she's not worried Latino voters in AZ will boost Clinton: “Nah...They don’t get out and vote.’’ [Hillary Clinton leads Democratic charge into red states]
posted by chris24 at 3:54 PM on October 21, 2016 [15 favorites]


You won't be able to go to bed then, though.

That's fine, I don't think I've slept since the Republican National Convention.
posted by infinitywaltz at 3:54 PM on October 21, 2016 [20 favorites]


Maybe Trump should just run for governor of Pennsylvania or something.

New Jersey might have an opening soon.
posted by Room 641-A at 3:55 PM on October 21, 2016 [7 favorites]


My dumb* fiancé is in a dumb* comedy show (about this election, natch) at 8PM PST on election night, so as long as I know we're spared a Trump administration, I can handle the rest after the house lights come back up.

*Used for effect because HOW CAN HE NOT KNOW WHY THIS ELECTION NIGHT IS DIFFERENT FROM ALL OTHER ELECTION NIGHTS
posted by Sara C. at 3:55 PM on October 21, 2016 [13 favorites]


Tom Wolf is most certainly not the reason we're not fixing the bridges here.
posted by tonycpsu at 3:55 PM on October 21, 2016 [6 favorites]


Going through the 538 current electoral map, she only gets to 266 by 9PM EST, even if every swing state is called right away and she definitely takes "light blue" states like Ohio and Iowa (where polls don't close till 10PM EST anyhow).

Yeah but we'll know California is on its way. The nets may not call it, but if the 9pm states generally go decently for her, it'll all be over but the whining.
posted by saturday_morning at 3:56 PM on October 21, 2016 [2 favorites]


My dumb* fiancé is in a dumb* comedy show (about this election, natch) at 8PM PST on election night, so as long as I know we're spared a Trump administration, I can handle the rest after the house lights come back up.

Wow… if we aren't done by then, are they just going to MST3K CNN or something?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:57 PM on October 21, 2016 [4 favorites]


Jan Brewer says she's not worried Latino voters in AZ will boost Clinton: “Nah...They don’t get out and vote.’’

This will be perfect for the 2050 U.S. History textbook chapter on how the GOP ceased to exist because they persisted in racism and xenophobia in the face of obvious demographic evidence and the efforts of many inside and outside their party.
posted by sallybrown at 3:58 PM on October 21, 2016 [55 favorites]


Jan Brewer says she's not worried Latino voters in AZ will boost Clinton: “Nah...They don’t get out and vote.’’


That needs to be on every fucking taco truck in the state
posted by ocschwar at 4:00 PM on October 21, 2016 [74 favorites]


roomthreeseventeen, I can only hope. Also, it's topical comedy and everyone involved in the show are liberal political dorks like us (SERIOUSLY HOW CAN THEY HAVE SCHEDULED A SHOW FOR ELECTION NIGHT), so either that or we repair to a bar to watch the returns stream in and party along with our fellow west coast liberal elites.
posted by Sara C. at 4:00 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]


“So, if I lose,” Trump continued, as the crowd remained unusually quiet. “If I lose, I will consider this. . .”
...Treason! I have been betrayed and deceived from the very beginning! What a monstrous betrayal of the American people. But all these traitors will pay. They will pay with their own blood! They shall drown in their own blood! [Tiffany, please calm yourself.] My orders have fallen on deaf ears. Under these circumstances, it is impossible to lead. It's over. The election is lost. But gentlemen, if you believe I am going to leave Trump Tower, you are seriously mistaken. I'd rather blow my brains out.
posted by the return of the thin white sock at 4:01 PM on October 21, 2016 [9 favorites]


I am currently not employed, and my wife is taking the day off. So my plan is to vote when the polls open, then drink all day and fret.
posted by Chrysostom at 4:02 PM on October 21, 2016 [7 favorites]


Maybe Trump should just run for governor of Pennsylvania or something. Like, why is this a national election issue?

It's not just Pennsylvania. There are serious infrastructure problems throughout the country.

It's Time to Fix America's Infrastructure. Here's Where to Start
The American Society of Civil Engineers says the US needs massive investments in all essential infrastructure, from bridges and airports to dams and railways. According to the society’s most recent infrastructure report card, the US earns a D+ for its infrastructure. It is, in a word, a mess. This is about much more than potholes. This is about keeping the economy, literally and figuratively, moving. Much of the economic boom the United States has experienced over the last 50 years is because the network of highways makes it easy to ship goods. If it continues into a state of disrepair, the long-term hit to our economy could be catastrophic.
System Overload
From the crumbling bridges of California to the overflowing sewage drains of Houston and the rusting railroad tracks in the Northeast Corridor, decaying infrastructure is all around us, and the consequences are so familiar that we barely notice them—like urban traffic congestion, slow-moving trains, and flights that are often disrupted, thanks to an outdated air-traffic-control system. The costs are significant, once you reckon wasted time, lost productivity, poor public-health outcomes, and increased carbon emissions.
...
Today, we spend significantly less, as a share of G.D.P., on infrastructure than we did fifty years ago—less, even, than fifteen years ago. As the economist Larry Summers has pointed out, once you adjust for depreciation, the U.S. makes no net investment in public infrastructure.
posted by kirkaracha at 4:02 PM on October 21, 2016 [37 favorites]


My election night plans: a massive all-girl street party in front of the White House, which Obama wisely lights up pink. I feel like that could happen?
posted by sallybrown at 4:02 PM on October 21, 2016 [37 favorites]


So my plan is to vote when the polls open, then drink all day and fret.

I asked to take the day after off because I will likely be hung over one way or the other.
posted by kirkaracha at 4:03 PM on October 21, 2016 [8 favorites]


>It's Time to Fix America's Infrastructure. Here's Where to Start

...by spending $25B on a wall between us and Mexico.

Or does it not say that for some reason?
posted by Sing Or Swim at 4:06 PM on October 21, 2016 [5 favorites]


Also, as I imagine most Washingtonians on MeFi can appreciate: Every time I fill in the bubble on a ballot initiative, I like to imagine I'm rubbing a pen in Tim Eyman's stupid eyes. Like I'm filling it in with the Ink of Disdain!

One of the best things about my political science 101 class last fall was that the author who wrote our textbook HATED Tim Eyman and took a lot of pains to rip on him several times. It was great.

No ballot here yet. I know it's in the mail and will be here soon but I want it now. It's a blustery afternoon turning into a blustery evening and I can think of no better way to spend my evening than cozied up on my couch in front of a fire with a bottle of Sea Cider and watching that Hamilton thing on PBS while I fill out my ballot. Why yes, I am single, thanks for asking.
posted by palomar at 4:07 PM on October 21, 2016 [6 favorites]


Hey, McMuffin's on CNN!
posted by mmoncur at 4:07 PM on October 21, 2016


And yet, with interest rates at record lows, with investors basically begging us to hold on to their money and spend it on whatever, we spend Presidential debates talking about how big the debt is rather than what we can buy to improve the nation.
posted by zachlipton at 4:07 PM on October 21, 2016 [34 favorites]


Oregon is exclusively vote-by-mail, though, right? So what does that 10PM time constitute? Can Oregon be called before then?

You can't mail in your ballot after a certain date and be sure it will arrive in time. (Qualification is by date received, not postmark.)

But you can drop off your ballot in person at the county election HQ on election day, and maybe some other locations, until 7pm. Even though most ballots will be counted by then, they won't announce any results until no one's vote can be affected.
posted by msalt at 4:10 PM on October 21, 2016 [2 favorites]


Jan Brewer says she's not worried Latino voters in AZ will boost Clinton: “Nah...They don’t get out and vote.’’

I love how the GOP's own 2012 campaign "autopsy report" boiled down to "Guys, we seriously need to stop being (or at least appearing) so racist or we're really fucked in the future'" and the base's response was "HA HA YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW FUCKED WE CAN MAKE THINGS!!111".
posted by Sangermaine at 4:10 PM on October 21, 2016 [112 favorites]


There are serious infrastructure problems throughout the country.

Sure, but as a Republican and general plutocrat, Trump doesn't actually want to spend money on that stuff. This is red meat "why are poor people supporting this guy when he represents everything that is against their interests" territory.

Rational people should be electing a Democrat who actually believes in addressing this stuff at the federal level, and then elect people to congress and the senate who won't obstruct federal infrastructure spending initiatives.
posted by Sara C. at 4:11 PM on October 21, 2016 [8 favorites]


and then elect people to congress and the senate who won't obstruct federal infrastructure spending initiatives.

That would involve getting off our lazy asses and voting on mid-term elections, so no.
posted by Mooski at 4:13 PM on October 21, 2016


Jan Brewer says she's not worried Latino voters in AZ will boost Clinton: “Nah...They don’t get out and vote.’’

Hillary in Español is on it: "Juntos se puede. http://VoyaVotar2016.com http://IWillVote.com"

(I mostly point this out because I didn't know Hillary had a Spanish-language Twitter account and I think it's neat.)
posted by lalex at 4:15 PM on October 21, 2016 [11 favorites]


Or remember in January 2013 when then-Louisiana Governor Jindal declared that Republicans "must stop being the stupid party"?

I guess they decided doing the opposite was the better choice.
posted by Sangermaine at 4:16 PM on October 21, 2016 [5 favorites]


PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCMENT:

The Bad Lip Reading of the second debate is an extremely good diversion from the sordid details of reality. Satire may be dead, but absurdism is not.
posted by jeremias at 4:18 PM on October 21, 2016 [19 favorites]


Jindal declared that Republicans "must stop being the stupid party"?

What? Democrats are the stupid party. Republicans are the evil party.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 4:19 PM on October 21, 2016 [16 favorites]


@seanhannity
In 10 yrs @wikileaks has gotten nothing wrong & no one's been killed bc of the info released. #freejulianassange #freeinternet for all.

@TVietor08 Tommy Vietor Retweeted Sean Hannity
Wikileaks practices are now criticized by Glenn Greenwald and praised by Hannity. Time for you to go, 2016.
posted by chris24 at 4:20 PM on October 21, 2016 [36 favorites]


Paul Ryan attacked Bernie Sanders. It backfired spectacularly.
Ryan’s hit on Sanders backfired, badly. Citing Ryan’s comments in a fundraising blast, Sanders was able to raise just under $2 million in two days for about a dozen Democratic Senate and House candidates — furthering his chances of actually becoming budget committee chair.
posted by xyzzy at 4:21 PM on October 21, 2016 [103 favorites]


My prediction is that, in a weird bit of synchronicity with all the Hamilton thread titles, Trump hatches a crazy scheme to invade Mexico and install himself as emperor after he loses, like crazy post-duel Burr did.
posted by jason_steakums at 4:23 PM on October 21, 2016 [10 favorites]


I just finished my ballot and drove it straight to the post office to drop it in the box, having triple-checked to make sure I affixed a stamp.

In 2008, I supported HRC in the WA caucus even though it was clearly a done deal for Obama here. I don't regret his victory. At no point did I feel like I was settling for the lesser of evils or any of that nonsense and I was thrilled when he won the election. Eight years later, I still feel that way. This year, I supported HRC in the WA caucus again, even though WA was a done deal for Sanders...and while I wasn't all that thrilled with Sanders, he had real merit and I'd have gladly voted for him in the general if he'd won the nomination.

But I'm not afraid to admit I got a little bit choked up putting that ballot in the mailbox for Hillary Clinton.

Also fuck everything about Donald Trump forever. And fuck Tim Eyman, too.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 4:25 PM on October 21, 2016 [36 favorites]


Yeah, I'm subscribed to three election related podcasts right now.

Hah! Slacker. I'm subscribed to 11 election related podcasts if you don't count Ciquizza which is a quiz show that mostly sticks to politics.

(Can you imagine any major chain store being willing to stock his products? Even Wal-Mart?) All of that will be an uphill battle, and then it's all to get products to people who don't have much money as his supporters tend to be low-income. And let's remember, he had a long list of failed business products even before he destroyed his own brand.
posted by orange swan at 6:29 PM

His supporters tend to make more than average salaries-- this is a topic that keeps coming up because we all want to believe that it is the impoverished who are lashing out in anger. But it is actually the comfortable who are lashing out because they don't like change and feel their rights as the White Elite are slipping away.

Also, I would not be surprised at all to see WalMart carry some new line of Trump stuff-- they can shelve it right next to the Duck Dynasty products. However in order to do this Trump would have to bring his name to a downmarket line of goods-- rather than expensive steaks and vodka it would have to be beef jerky and cheesepuffs.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:25 PM on October 21, 2016 [11 favorites]


The real question now is, who is going to play Donald Trump in Game Change 2: The Facepalming? . Jon Voight with a wig?
posted by elgilito at 4:25 PM on October 21, 2016 [2 favorites]


Ryan’s hit on Sanders backfired, badly

Yeah what was he thinking? Sanders almost won the Democratic nomination and is at the height of his popularity. Millions of people want him to have power. Most people, even Republicans, want Ryan to go suck an egg.
posted by dis_integration at 4:27 PM on October 21, 2016 [31 favorites]


I want more Hamilton and am frankly unhappy we have moved away from Hamilton titles.

for your crimes you will be made to suffer the procession of shame
posted by poffin boffin at 4:27 PM on October 21, 2016 [7 favorites]


ardgedee: (overseas) betting companies are already calling Clinton the winner, and they have skin in that game.

Heh, I guessed without even looking which company that would be. They are very well-known for declaring winners and paying out early. They do it as a publicity stunt when one contender is well ahead, more than a sense that the race is truly over. In one case, they paid out on Manchester United to win the Premier League, and United subsequently didn't. If I knew literally nothing about the election other than the fact that they'd paid out, I'd guess that Clinton was about 1/4, 1/5 favourite at this point.
posted by Pink Frost at 4:27 PM on October 21, 2016


Yeah what was he thinking? Sanders almost won the Democratic nomination and is at the height of his popularity. Millions of people want him to have power. Most people, even Republicans, want Ryan to go suck an egg.

I really want to see him cry on camera John Boehner style.
Not as much as I want to see him lose reelection, or lose the Speakership to the Democrats, but Paul Ryan's tears of "Why did I forsake Jesus? I got nothing for it!" are on my wish list.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 4:29 PM on October 21, 2016 [4 favorites]


@AliVitali I'm told Trump's speech tomorrow in Gettysburg will be a preview of his first 100 days and offer a positive forward vision.


That actually might be very interesting to hear. He has promised to do so many things "On Day One" that I would love to hear what his fantasy Presidential term would be like. I mean Day One is "Crime will end" so where do you go from there (fakish, it is not the exact wording but it is close.)
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:29 PM on October 21, 2016 [11 favorites]


>>I want more Hamilton and am frankly unhappy we have moved away from Hamilton titles.

> for your crimes you will be made to suffer the procession of shame
posted by poffin boffin at 4:27 PM on October 21 [+] [!]


since when are you a democratic-republican?
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 4:31 PM on October 21, 2016 [17 favorites]


leave me to do my dark bidding on the internet
posted by poffin boffin at 4:34 PM on October 21, 2016 [27 favorites]


Erick Erickson is calling 9:05.

No. I'm going to be in class until 9 on election day, it'll all be over when I get home.

Last presidential election we were at a Madonna concert on election day and we found out that Obama had won the election from the Material Girl herself. She then stripped down to her underwear in celebration.
posted by octothorpe at 4:35 PM on October 21, 2016 [42 favorites]


scaryblackdeath: "Also, as I imagine most Washingtonians on MeFi can appreciate: Every time I fill in the bubble on a ballot initiative, I like to imagine I'm rubbing a pen in Tim Eyman's stupid eyes."

So, what did you do on I-732?
posted by Chrysostom at 4:36 PM on October 21, 2016


dark bidding on the internet

Best What We Do In the Shadows reference so far in the election threads.
posted by MoonOrb at 4:37 PM on October 21, 2016 [6 favorites]


Richard Branson's latest blog post:
Even before the starters arrived he began telling me about how he had asked a number of people for help after his latest bankruptcy and how five of them were unwilling to help. He told me he was going to spend the rest of his life destroying these five people.
posted by Room 641-A at 4:39 PM on October 21, 2016 [9 favorites]


The real question now is, who is going to play Donald Trump in Game Change 2: The Facepalming? . Jon Voight with a wig?

I want a Game Change directed by the Coen Brothers, starring John Carroll Lynch as Trump and Frances McDormand as Clinton. Even without the Fargo-ness, I think these people would be *perfectly* suited to their roles. But the Fargo-ness adds to it because of how 90stalgic this election is. And it's a surreal and strange idea that seems wrong and implausible, like this year.
posted by sallybrown at 4:40 PM on October 21, 2016 [4 favorites]


Trump Hotels Ditching Name For New Hotels
Nightly rates at the newly-opened Trump International Hotel in D.C. plummeted below $500 while practically every other five-star property was sold out for the International Monetary Fund conference two weeks ago. And after his remarks about Mexican immigrants, two celebrity chefs backed out of their contracts to open a restaurant in the hotel.

According to Hipmunk, bookings at Trump Hotels plummeted 59 percent during the first half of 2016 and data from Foursquare shows a 17 percent drop in foot traffic at Trump properties since June 2015, when the reality TV star announced his presidential bid.
The new name is Scion which we previously discussed in these threads. They are claiming they wanted a distinction between the luxury brand and the lifestyle brand.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:41 PM on October 21, 2016 [7 favorites]


Dropped my ballot off at a drop box on my way to work yesterday. Got a text confirming it had been received by my county elections department that evening.

I've been looking hard for silver linings in this election, so I was "glad" to learn that my town's mayor (an officially nonpartisan office), has enthusiastically signed on to the Koch-funded campaign against my progressive state house rep.

The mayor's endorsement was a little galling, though, implying that by not supporting the candidate, who is a woman, voters would not be supporting women in general. I was tempted to write her asking snarkily if she was supporting Clinton, Morgan Carroll, Misty Plowright and the other women running here in CO.
posted by audi alteram partem at 4:41 PM on October 21, 2016 [9 favorites]


Atlantic No, Most Black People Don’t Live in Poverty—or Inner Cities
There might have been a time when conflating inner cities and African Americans was appropriate shorthand, but it’s just not accurate anymore. The majority of African Americans are living both above the poverty line and outside of the inner cities, rendering Trump’s comments misleading and factually inaccurate.

Elizabeth Kneebone, a fellow at the Metropolitan Policy Program at the Brookings Institution, looked at numbers from the 2010 to 2014 American Community Survey and found that 39 percent of African Americans live in the suburbs, 36 percent live in cities, 15 percent live in small metropolitan areas, and 10 percent live in rural communities. That’s a noticeable shift from 2000, when 41 percent of African Americans lived in cities, 33 percent lived in suburbs, 15 percent lived in small metro areas, and 11 percent lived in rural communities.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:44 PM on October 21, 2016 [16 favorites]


Received my ballot in the mail yesterday, filled it out last night, and put it in the drop box this morning. Voting in Washington is so civilized.

So, what did you do on I-732?

I ultimately voted no, but at least one person I know voted yes so... they cancel?

Also, fuck Tim Eyman.
posted by Special Agent Dale Cooper at 4:45 PM on October 21, 2016 [8 favorites]


The new name is Scion which we previously discussed in these threads. They are claiming they wanted a distinction between the luxury brand and the lifestyle brand.


Credit where it's due: "Scion" as a brand for Trump owned businesses is fucking brilliant.
posted by ocschwar at 4:45 PM on October 21, 2016 [8 favorites]


By 10:25 Central, Hillary will not only have had the Presidential race called for her, but she will also have been awarded the Prime Ministership of Spain, the Lady Byng Trophy, the title of Human Tornado and the DDT Ironman Heavymetalweight championship belt.

Can we find a way to also give her an Emmy?
posted by obscure simpsons reference at 4:46 PM on October 21, 2016 [54 favorites]


@AliVitali I'm told Trump's speech tomorrow in Gettysburg will be a preview of his first 100 days and offer a positive forward vision.

It's silly of me because it's a very real town and not just a battlefield, and tourists from all over come there (including me on many field trips!) so it's not just some untouched, sacred space, but it makes me feel sick that he will be giving a speech there. Thinking of who he is, what he represents, what he's done to this country, how he's spent his life, compared to what happened there and the speech that happened there. He's such a shame on our country, my god.
posted by sallybrown at 4:46 PM on October 21, 2016 [21 favorites]


‘I Don’t Speak for Jews’: Jake Tapper’s Interview with Curt Schilling Took a Strange Turn
CNN’s Jake Tapper interviewed Curt Schilling today and it was going pretty well until Schilling started asking Tapper some personal questions…

Schilling spoke with Tapper about his plans to consider a run for Senate against Elizabeth Warren in 2018, which he made clear would have to be a family decision.

But then Tapper confronted Schilling on sharing memes in the past that ridiculed trans people and likened Muslims to Nazis. Both of those things got Schilling in hot water with ESPN––the anti-trans meme got him fired––but Schilling said it was unfair to 1) judge him on a meme someone else made that he shared, and 2) to think he was attacking all Muslims and not just the extremists.
Then it got weird, with Tapper tell us he doesn't vote in Presidential elections, Schilling telling Tapper he doesn't understand how Jews can vote for Democrats because they're anti-Israel, and Tapper being like "Well, I don’t speak for Jews." It's weird.

And Schilling now is saying his decision to run in 2018 "hasn't been finalized yet" because he has to talk to his family.
posted by zachlipton at 4:46 PM on October 21, 2016 [8 favorites]




And let's not understate how good Clinton has been in the debates. She's fantastic: smart, informed, calm; and all that in the face of such disgusting behavior.
posted by persona au gratin at 4:50 PM on October 21, 2016 [25 favorites]


The Republican Party Owns Donald Trump’s Actions on Election Day
Most weeks, New York Magazine writer-at-large Frank Rich speaks with contributor Alex Carp about the biggest stories in politics and culture. Today: Trump’s dangerous rhetoric, the last presidential debate, and the potential future of the GOP.
posted by kirkaracha at 4:52 PM on October 21, 2016 [4 favorites]


@RosieGray Trump has described his campaign at different points today as "beyond Brexit," then "Brexit Plus," and now "Brexit times five"

Brexit times 5? Five times the anguish and regret? Five times the financial meltdown? Five times the lack of leadership and confusion? Or does he mean it will be 5 times as surprising when he confounds all expectations and wins the Presidency? Because I'm pretty sure even he know longer believes he has a chance.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:52 PM on October 21, 2016 [17 favorites]


ocschwar: "Credit where it's due: "Scion" as a brand for Trump owned businesses is fucking brilliant."

I don't know, the word makes me think "Cheap boxy Toyota", not luxury hotel brand.
posted by octothorpe at 4:53 PM on October 21, 2016 [42 favorites]


By 10:25 Central, Hillary will not only have had the Presidential race called for her, but she will also have been awarded the Prime Ministership of Spain, the Lady Byng Trophy, the title of Human Tornado and the DDT Ironman Heavymetalweight championship belt.

Can we find a way to also give her an Emmy?


I would not be too surprised if she won the Nobel Peace prize-- if they can give it to Obama for not being George Bush then they can award it to her for keeping Trump out of the White House.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:56 PM on October 21, 2016 [22 favorites]


> "Brexit times 5?"

Well, I literally cried when Brexit won, so I imagine if Trump wins I'll just start spontaneously bleeding from the eyeballs.
posted by kyrademon at 4:56 PM on October 21, 2016 [37 favorites]


I just sat down to get started on my phone banking for the night and the site is down. Isitdownorjustme says it's down.
posted by HotToddy at 4:57 PM on October 21, 2016


Could we just tell Trump that he's getting an American Brexit; the US is withdrawing from the European Union? Would that be enough to make him go away?
posted by zachlipton at 4:58 PM on October 21, 2016 [20 favorites]


I just sat down to get started on my phone banking for the night and the site is down. Isitdownorjustme says it's down.

I can get to the site, but it says "Problem accessing phone banks" where it normally lists all the open states. So much for trying to get in some calls pre-Hamildoc.
posted by zachlipton at 4:59 PM on October 21, 2016


He's crackin up folks.

He needs to get down off his high great white horse. Or maybe the thin white duke. Or... stop putting his dukes up... letting the dogs out? I mean... some metaphor.
posted by GenjiandProust at 4:59 PM on October 21, 2016 [4 favorites]


I like voting at the polling place. It's a civic ritual I find really meaningful. So I'm gonna vote on Election Day.


LA Peeps: Measure M--more rail!
CA Peeps: Prop 55--keep taking money from the rich and giving it to universities!
posted by persona au gratin at 5:01 PM on October 21, 2016 [7 favorites]


It's back up. Whew! Worried!
posted by HotToddy at 5:02 PM on October 21, 2016


Brexit times 5?

He's going to take the US out of the EU! And make them pay for it!
posted by GenjiandProust at 5:02 PM on October 21, 2016 [7 favorites]




The next Emmys will include a special one-time category: Best Debate Performance Against Donald Trump in a Presidential General Election.
posted by ckape at 5:04 PM on October 21, 2016 [44 favorites]


My prediction is that, in a weird bit of synchronicity with all the Hamilton thread titles, Trump hatches a crazy scheme to invade Mexico and install himself as emperor after he loses, like crazy post-duel Burr did.

Meme magic.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 5:05 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]


I would not be too surprised if she won the Nobel Peace prize-- if they can give it to Obama for not being George Bush then they can award it to her for keeping Trump out of the White House.

No no no. If the winner gets it for keeping Trump out of the White House, they have to award it to everyone who voted for a candidate other than Trump. And we should all get to go to the ceremony.
posted by sallybrown at 5:05 PM on October 21, 2016 [3 favorites]


Sometimes reddit is okay:
Let me tell you about what's going to happen on January 20th.

After her win over Donald Trump, the US is about to inaugurate its first female commander in chief. A large crowd gathers outside the Capitol. The crowd is about as big as Obamas, but with fewer black people and more lesbians. Notable absences include Donald Trump, who is busy filming a reality show about his divorce; Louie Gohmert, who is stuck inside a jungle gym; and Ted Cruz, who is stuck inside Mike Lee.

Ruth Bader Ginsberg delivers the oath of office to Mrs. Clinton who swears with her hand on a copy of The Art of the Deal, because that's hilarious. Not 3 seconds after she recites the oath and is officially POTUS, RBG retires on the spot, President Clinton nominates Obama, and before Hillary can let go of the fart she's been holding in the entire ceremony, Barack AND Garland are confirmed by the Dem majority senate. Historians will call it "The Double Tap."

Should be a fun weekend.
posted by Rhaomi at 5:06 PM on October 21, 2016 [89 favorites]


I think he thinks Brexit is horse food perhaps...
posted by Namlit at 5:08 PM on October 21, 2016


In 10 yrs @wikileaks has gotten nothing wrong & no one's been killed bc of the info released.

I guess the fact that we had a diplomatic mission in Libya as a direct result of the Arab spring which was largely due to our docs appearing on Wikileaks doesn't count.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 5:08 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]


persona au gratin: "And let's not understate how good Clinton has been in the debates. She's fantastic: smart, informed, calm; and all that in the face of such disgusting behavior."

This is why the emerging GOP meme of, "Well, sure she beat TRUMP. Any competent Republican would have leveled her," pisses me off so much. Setting aside the fact that near a dozen and a half of the GOP's best and brightest couldn't even get past Trump to the nomination - I feel pretty good that she could have beat whomever they put up. She has her flaws, but she's run a great race.

The only way to shut them up is re-elect her in '20, I guess.
posted by Chrysostom at 5:08 PM on October 21, 2016 [14 favorites]


Chrysostom: So, what did you do on I-732?


I looked at a whole bunch of arguments for & against (including the linked MeFi FPP) and eventually wrestled myself into voting yes. That bill is kinda hosed but I figure we gotta do something about climate change and more such bills passing will hopefully get things moving in the right direction.

I linked it in the last election thread, but by and large my thoughts line up with The Stranger's election endorsements. I gotta say a few things in WA aren't totally cut and dried. I-1491, for instance, allows cops, families, housemates, and intimate partners to get court orders to remove guns from people in mental crisis, and that seems like a no-brainer until you consider the argument that the language in the bill paints people with mental health problems with way too broad of a brush. I voted yes on that one, but I didn't feel good about it. A couple of other things left me feeling that way, too, but that's how democracy goes.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 5:09 PM on October 21, 2016 [4 favorites]


Based on past performance, it'll just be "Trump BREAKS it" X 5
posted by oneswellfoop at 5:11 PM on October 21, 2016 [3 favorites]


He needs to get down off his high great white horse. Or maybe the thin white duke. Or... stop putting his dukes up... letting the dogs out? I mean... some metaphor.

He needs to stop being the horse Vladimir Putin rides around on.
posted by XMLicious at 5:12 PM on October 21, 2016 [3 favorites]


Setting aside the fact that near a dozen and a half of the GOP's best and brightest couldn't even get past Trump to the nomination

That's like saying "eighteen of the smartest eggs in the ENTIRE SUPERMARKET."
posted by delfin at 5:13 PM on October 21, 2016 [14 favorites]


That's like saying "eighteen of the smartest eggs in the ENTIRE SUPERMARKET."

no, it's not - you have to break eggs to make them scramble
posted by pyramid termite at 5:15 PM on October 21, 2016 [2 favorites]


He'll never realize that the High Horse he thinks he's on is really a Short Ass.
posted by oneswellfoop at 5:16 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]


The "dozen and a half of the GOP's best and brightest" was more like the casting choices for a bad Reality Competition show. And you thought Burnett was NOT helping him.
posted by oneswellfoop at 5:18 PM on October 21, 2016


Well, when you're talking about possible GOP candidates, you've pretty much excluded the rocket scientists....
posted by Chrysostom at 5:20 PM on October 21, 2016


Yeah, they only consider brain surgeons.
posted by jferg at 5:22 PM on October 21, 2016 [6 favorites]


Credit where it's due: "Scion" as a brand for Trump owned businesses is fucking brilliant.

scion
/ˈsʌɪən/ noun
  1. a young shoot or twig of a plant, especially one cut for grafting or rooting. synonyms: cutting, graft, slip
graft
/ɡrɑːft/ noun
  1. bribery and other corrupt practices used to secure illicit advantages or gains in politics or business. synonyms: corruption, bribery, bribing, dishonesty, deceit, fraud, fraudulence, subornation, unlawful practices, illegal means, underhand means antonyms: honesty • advantages or gains secured as a result of corrupt practices.
verb: graft; 3rd person present: grafts; past tense: grafted; past participle: grafted; gerund or present participle: grafting
  1. make money by shady or dishonest means.
posted by effbot at 5:23 PM on October 21, 2016 [26 favorites]


> Not to rehash the Russia conversation from the other thread, but bringing up McCarthy is interesting- is Trump basically the McCarthy of our times not just in terms of accusing American citizens and inspiring witch hunts, but by flaming out in the worst of ways after having shaken American politics to their core, causing society to simply shrug, "Well, that was weird" and move on?

Alas, that's not true. McCarthyism didn't end with McCarthy (who was censured in 1954 and died in 1957), it kept going for years, its effects gradually fading as judicial and political support ended but still hurting people. Take the blacklist; as Wikipedia says, "John Henry Faulk won his lawsuit in 1962. With this court decision, the private blacklisters and those who used them were put on notice that they were legally liable for the professional and financial damage they caused. This helped to bring an end to publications such as Counterattack. Like Adrian Scott and Lillian Hellman, however, a number of those on the blacklist remained there for an extended period—Lionel Stander, for instance, could not find work in Hollywood until 1965." And open avowal of truly leftist positions made political life impossible in most of the country for decades; McGovern was called a commie, for god's sake. It's amazing to me that we've finally gotten to the point that Bernie Sanders can be an avowed socialist and not be automatically rejected for it by the national electorate. It takes a long, long time for the ripples to fade.
posted by languagehat at 5:25 PM on October 21, 2016 [29 favorites]


Show that you participated this election: I rigged.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 5:25 PM on October 21, 2016 [2 favorites]


Donald Trump Is No Freak Accident, and Paul Ryan Is No Solution. It won't end well if Republicans get away with this.
Plato wrote, "The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by fools." Mr. Madison, who read Plato and understood the hell out of what he read, famously wrote, "A popular government without popular information or the means of acquiring it, is but a prologue to a farce or a tragedy or perhaps both." God knows we've seen the farce. The object now is to avert the tragedy, and the one way to do that is not to wave off the Trump phenomenon as a one-off trick of political nature—a freak May snowstorm that came upon the lovely garden of the Republican intellect. It has been a steady blizzard of nonsense for going on four decades.

...

If Paul Ryan is going to be the person who puts the party back together, then the party's platform is going to be privatizing Social Security, voucherizing Medicare, a further investment in the ridiculous notion of supply-side economics, the deregulation on the federal level of just about everything from the stock market to canned tuna, the sell-off and pillage of public lands, the revival of block-grants so that the governors and state legislatures can have a feeding frenzy on the federal tab, and the continued refusal to do anything about the climate crisis.

But Paul Ryan has never advised anyone to grab someone by the pussy, so that makes him Pericles, I guess.
posted by homunculus at 5:27 PM on October 21, 2016 [48 favorites]


Vanity Fair: What the Third Debate Felt Like
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:29 PM on October 21, 2016 [4 favorites]


Random pantsuit trivia: up to 1993 the dress code of the US Senate forbade women from wearing pants onto the senate floor; it was only skirts and dresses and pantyhose for senators and senate staffers. There was a coordinated protest by Senators Carol Moseley Braun and Barbara Mikulski that led to a change in the rules that allowed women to wear pants in the senate.
posted by peeedro at 5:29 PM on October 21, 2016 [122 favorites]


David Duke qualifies for Louisiana Senate debate
Former Ku Klux Klan leader David Duke has qualified for a televised debate in Louisiana's Senate race after a new poll showed him drawing 5 percent of the vote.

Duke, a white supremacist, announced he was running late this summer, saying GOP presidential nominee Donald Trump had inspired him and drawn more followers to his cause. Other Republicans in the state have disavowed him and the Republican National Committee and Louisiana GOP explored booting him out of the party.[...]

Louisiana hold its all-party primary on Election Day. A candidate can win the seat with a majority of the vote, but the Senate seat looks almost certain to go to a Dec. 10 runoff between the two top vote-getters that day. GOP State Treasurer John Kennedy led the poll with 24 percent of the vote, followed by Democratic Public Service Commissioner Foster Campbell with 19 percent and Democratic attorney Caroline Fayard with 12 percent. Republican congressmen Charles Boustany and John Fleming earned 12 and 11 percent of the vote, respectively.

Duke has had little presence on the campaign trail and has raised little money so far. He previously served as a state representative in the late 1980s and lost the 1991 gubernatorial election.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:39 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]


Former Ku Klux Klan leader David Duke has qualified for a televised debate in Louisiana's Senate race after a new poll showed him drawing 5 percent of the vote.

If there was ever a case for why we needed German-style hate-speech legislation, this is it.
posted by dis_integration at 5:44 PM on October 21, 2016 [4 favorites]


After her win over Donald Trump, the US is about to inaugurate its first female commander in chief.

No. The president is "Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States." I really dislike the use of title being used in other contexts because it's symbolic of the increased militarization of American society.
posted by kirkaracha at 5:45 PM on October 21, 2016 [33 favorites]


Yeah, I'm subscribed to three election related podcasts right now.

Six here. I rage run to them.
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:46 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]


Plato wrote, "The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by fools."

(it would make a great Election Day status update, but no, Plato did not write that)
posted by sallybrown at 5:46 PM on October 21, 2016 [4 favorites]


If there was ever a case for why we needed German-style hate-speech legislation, this is it.

I can say some hateful things about David Duke in German if that helps. Er ist ein riesiges Arschloch, for instance.
posted by kirkaracha at 5:47 PM on October 21, 2016 [9 favorites]


"Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States."

Or just Commander in Chief, as General Washington was known. It's an easy shorthand. It's not confused for Dictator or Imperator.
posted by dis_integration at 5:47 PM on October 21, 2016 [6 favorites]


If there was ever a case for why we needed German-style hate-speech legislation, this is it.

Nah. Very little of Duke's rhetoric would cross that line. Dogwhistles are more comfortable.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:47 PM on October 21, 2016 [4 favorites]


Rigged, this mirror is rigged. Earth to Donald.
posted by Oyéah at 5:49 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]


Former Ku Klux Klan leader and Assange fanboy David Duke has qualified for a televised debate

FTFY.
posted by effbot at 5:49 PM on October 21, 2016 [2 favorites]


Trump translation: Pennsylvania has a problem with bridge infastructure. Many of them are structurally deficient. Some are so bad that it's scary to drive over them. So bad that you'd feel safer and more relaxed swimming instead of driving on them. My plan is to fix these bridges.

Oh stewardess? I speak jive.
posted by PlusDistance at 5:49 PM on October 21, 2016 [4 favorites]


If the LA Senate debate is going to have every candidate polling over 5%, it doesn't need David Duke to be a 💩💩💩💩💩show.
posted by oneswellfoop at 5:51 PM on October 21, 2016 [3 favorites]


Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, the Stormborn, the Unburnt, Commander of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States, Queen of the Andals, the Rhoynar, and the First Men, Breaker of Chains, Mother of Dragons, Khaleesi of the Great Grass Sea, Queen of Meereen...
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 5:54 PM on October 21, 2016 [35 favorites]


Or just Commander in Chief, as General Washington was known. It's an easy shorthand. It's not confused for Dictator or Imperator.

Right, but the president is Commander in Chief of the military, not the country.
posted by kirkaracha at 5:58 PM on October 21, 2016 [5 favorites]


This is why the emerging GOP meme of, "Well, sure she beat TRUMP. Any competent Republican would have leveled her," pisses me off so much. Setting aside the fact that near a dozen and a half of the GOP's best and brightest couldn't even get past Trump to the nomination - I feel pretty good that she could have beat whomever they put up. She has her flaws, but she's run a great race.

Good morning, the competent Republican in military intelligence is clearly confused, saying it is an open secret that our only choice for this weirdly normal election is the unpopular celebrity, but he is a big baby and bankrupt millionaire with consistent discrepancies whose support is growing smaller and turning pretty ugly. It is a real fantasy that future history will celebrate quitely the happy demise of our loyal opposition.

Jumbo shrimp.
posted by ckape at 6:00 PM on October 21, 2016 [8 favorites]


Wikileaks and Project Veritas bullshit are going to be giving us all heartburn for the next few weeks. Without debate meltdowns I worry Trump might pop back up.
posted by humanfont at 6:02 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]




Really the only way sensible to resolve this "commander in chief" problem is to abolish the office of the Presidency altogether and move to something more like the Westminster system, wherein the executive cabinet is part of the legislature and wherein the roles of head of state and head of government (and, for that matter, head of military) are clearly separated.

Maybe the only reason we're saddled with the institution of the Presidency instead of a more modern system is because a certain a-l-e-x-a-n-d-e-r was basically a monarchist deep down.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 6:04 PM on October 21, 2016 [8 favorites]


Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States

...Dei Gratia Britanniarum Regnorumque Suorum Ceterorum Regina, Consortionis Populorum Princeps, Fidei Defensor, Fellow of the Royal Society, Freeman of the Worshipful Company of Drapers, Duke of Normandy, Lord of Mann...
posted by Chrysostom at 6:07 PM on October 21, 2016 [4 favorites]


Hey, if you're disappointed that the majority party of one house of the national legislature doesn't have absolute power, you should be blaming Madison, what with his "checks" and "balances" and "independent branches of government".
posted by Huffy Puffy at 6:08 PM on October 21, 2016 [7 favorites]


Because the Trump campaign will either be McCarthy, where millions of Americans leave the bad dream, or he'll be Nixon, where his actions and character will poison the political atmosphere for decades. This might be a simplistic dichotomy so I'm open to suggestions on revising this model.
posted by Apocryphon


I have observed my mothers political involvement over 50 years. She's 97 now, always making a vow to stay alive for the next election cycle. She has always been far-right and active in pro-life movement pre-Roe v. Wade. I grew up in a house of John Birch texts, National Review, and Phyllis Schlafley newletters. One of my early memories was looking at a portrait of Harry Truman and thinklng, "why is this man so evil" The names and idealogues have changed. Her position and beliefs have never evolved. I see them having always been rooted in 1948 and around the time she began having children. The language has changed. The root belief remains the same.

With that in mind I've never connected Trump to Nixon. Only to McCarthy. His power was gained by a traditional political process and structure that, at it's worse, condones obsufcation for political gain and survival. Both played zero-sum games and both, to me, seem to have had/have a weird-ass death wish. Nixon, on the other hand was a junkyard dog. He had the presence to rebuild his ground game after his loss for CA Governorship in 1962. Many political historian still consider this one of the great political comebacks.

My mom had 10 kids. I have a around 25 nieces and nephews and now they are having children. I bet that maybe 1 or 2 might be voting for Clinton. I see their political viewpoints coming from a generational bias. Thus their beliefs, while seemingly modern for them, are McCarthy era based

I was once pickpocketed. I could feel the man sliding the twenty out of my pocket at a crowded basketball game. I also felt like I had been paralyzed by the subtlety of the lifters movement and how he entered my space. Then he was gone. What just happened? This didn't just happen? I knew it did. I did not want to tell anyone what had happened out of embarrassment. So I lost the twenty and reveled in the experience of what it was like to feel myself being stunned without being touched and made temporarily helpless and disbelieving of a process as it was actually happening.
posted by goalyeehah at 6:09 PM on October 21, 2016 [43 favorites]


Wikileaks and Project Veritas bullshit are going to be giving us all heartburn for the next few weeks. Without debate meltdowns I worry Trump might pop back up.

Trump might gain back a few points in the polls over the next 17 days, but there's almost 0.0 chance of him regaining enough lost ground to win this. And we've still got plenty of time for another video-bomb to drop.
posted by dis_integration at 6:15 PM on October 21, 2016 [2 favorites]


My election night plans: a massive all-girl street party in front of the White House, which Obama wisely lights up pink. I feel like that could happen?

I had a dream that I dressed up as a suffragette for the inauguration. I'm now researching ginormous hats.
posted by longdaysjourney at 6:17 PM on October 21, 2016 [21 favorites]


I am pretty confident that trump's tax returns will drop about a week before the election.
posted by rebent at 6:23 PM on October 21, 2016 [6 favorites]




Not sure if this has been published yet but Time has a terrific selection of portraits of Clinton over the last twenty-three years. The last one is just a stunner.
posted by octothorpe at 6:29 PM on October 21, 2016 [31 favorites]


The next Emmys will include a special one-time category: Best Debate Performance Against Donald Trump in a Presidential General Election.

And the Emmy goes to... Donald J. Trump!
posted by tonycpsu at 6:32 PM on October 21, 2016 [55 favorites]


So, according to Rachel Maddow, Donald Trump's best joke at the Al Smith dinner, the one about plagiarism, was plagiarized. She showed a cartoon from over the summer that was in a paper popular on the Hill.
posted by xyzzy at 6:37 PM on October 21, 2016 [18 favorites]


“I want to ask Mr. Trump, would my son have a place in your America?” Captain Khan, new Clinton campaign ad.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 6:39 PM on October 21, 2016 [13 favorites]


Martin Schoeller, photographer, who shot Clinton in Washington for The New Yorker in 2011: “When I photographed Hillary Clinton, she was a little nervous. I said, ‘You will not look as bad as the Chuck Close portrait,’ and she laughed and trusted me. In this photograph, I think she looks authentic and unposed.”

I liked the Chuck Close one, I think because it felt natural. It's definitely posed, but somehow in a different way to the others. That said, she also looks a bit like Emma Thompson in it, and I don't normally think they look alike. That said, I'm sometimes astonishingly bad at knowing what people look like.
posted by hoyland at 6:41 PM on October 21, 2016 [6 favorites]


Really the only way sensible to resolve this "commander in chief" problem is to abolish the office of the Presidency altogether and move to something more like the Westminster system, wherein the executive cabinet is part of the legislature and wherein the roles of head of state and head of government (and, for that matter, head of military) are clearly separated.

Speaking from a country where we currently have an unelected Prime Minister who intends to hold no general election until 2020, this is a terrible idea.

What you get under the Westminster system is at best a leader who was voted for by the people of one borough, plus the members of their Parliamentary party. May didn't even have to stand for a leadership contest-- she was appointed after all the other candidates imploded.

At least in the US, the entire country gets to participate in choosing the President.
posted by Pallas Athena at 6:41 PM on October 21, 2016 [18 favorites]


once you adjust for depreciation, the U.S. makes no net investment in public infrastructure.

Once you reach salvage value, depreciation becomes zero. Checkmate, economists!
posted by ctmf at 6:41 PM on October 21, 2016 [3 favorites]


I am pretty confident that trump's tax returns will drop about a week before the election.

I disagree. Why are you pretty confident?
posted by cashman at 6:44 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]


What's the advantage to separating the head of state and head of government? Running through (an admittedly short list of) countries in my head, it seems like, if you do, one ends up with power and the other one ends up fairly inconsequential, aside from the occasional scandal.

(It does open up silly scenarios like whether you could try Tony Blair for war crimes without trying the Queen. So that's amusing, I suppose.)
posted by hoyland at 6:46 PM on October 21, 2016


That said, she also looks a bit like Emma Thompson in it, and I don't normally think they look alike

Well, Emma Thompson did basically play her in the movie version of Primary Colors.
posted by Sara C. at 6:50 PM on October 21, 2016 [8 favorites]


From a billion comments earlier:

His narcissism made him think he could become president despite his complete lack of experience and qualifications for the job, and now he's going to lose what he had.

He should have been Governor of Texas first, as that would have guaranteed him a two term presidency.
posted by zippy at 6:51 PM on October 21, 2016 [3 favorites]


Another video featuring Donald Trump talking about how his attraction to hot women 17-18 year olds especially is his alcoholism.
posted by humanfont at 6:54 PM on October 21, 2016 [4 favorites]


I am pretty confident that trump's tax returns will drop about a week before the election.

Don't get blood on your pantsuit when you rip his heart out and hold it beating before his eyes, Hillary
posted by XMLicious at 6:56 PM on October 21, 2016 [7 favorites]


She has a special pantsuit exactly the color of blood just for that occasion.
posted by emjaybee at 6:58 PM on October 21, 2016 [40 favorites]


Right, but the president is Commander in Chief of the military, not the country.

So, the country having a Commander in Chief of the military, and the country being our country, the President can be our Commander in Chief (of the military). This is not the same thing as Commander in Chief of us.

I mean, I get your point, but being mad about that shorthand title is being as willfully nitpicky about language as I'm being now with yours. I don't think anyone is literally advocating the President as a military-style dictator by saying that.
posted by ctmf at 7:01 PM on October 21, 2016 [15 favorites]


shhhhh don't mind that sound, it's just me intoning FINISH HIM with all the guttural ceaseless rage of all of us nasty women
posted by yasaman at 7:02 PM on October 21, 2016 [49 favorites]


Those voting machines are plugged into the wall. They operate independently of the web. They make a verifiable paper printout of every vote that goes in the machine. Then they print a results ticket for each machine. The machines are returned to the county clerks, and then tallied. I am not sure the machines are turned on again after the voting. I think the paper is where the tally is done. I ran a busy polling place for years. It was very tightly controlled, with people waiting in the parking lot for us to arrive, with phone calls in between the polling place and the clerks office. So the web isn't really where the vote happens.
posted by Oyéah at 7:10 PM on October 21, 2016 [8 favorites]




Another video featuring Donald Trump talking about how his attraction to hot women 17-18 year olds especially is his alcoholism.

*shudder* God, he sounds like Andy Daly as Don DiMello. "I hire the beautiful girls and I always get a little something for daddy."
posted by glhaynes at 7:17 PM on October 21, 2016 [7 favorites]


Fucking flag groper. I'm not the world's most symbolically-patriotic guy, but every time he pulls that shit, I want him off my flag.
posted by glhaynes at 7:18 PM on October 21, 2016 [3 favorites]


"you misspelled groped. He groped the American flag."@twitter
posted by Oyéah at 7:18 PM on October 21, 2016 [3 favorites]


Today I took off Nov. 8 & 9. Show of hands: anyone else home either/both days?
posted by wenestvedt at 7:24 PM on October 21, 2016 [18 favorites]


I took off the 7th so I can spend all day canvassing so I am exhausted by the end of the day and I can maybe sleep that night.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:26 PM on October 21, 2016 [3 favorites]


HOLLLLLLLLLAAAAA, I get Election Day every year and took the day after- one day for worrying and one day for the hangover
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 7:26 PM on October 21, 2016 [3 favorites]


So early voting In Texas starts Monday, and I'm champing at the bit to get down there but I've been working so much the last six weeks I have no idea what is even going on in the local school board/city council elections & I've got to cool my jets enough to get an idea of what all is important there ( we have a 750 million transportation bond package for instance that I'm ambivalent about, but may be misinformed) before I go racing down to the first polling place I can find to cast what feels like 2 great favors wrapped in one -- a historic vote for a very worthy and capable woman, and a chance to repudiate the most vile candidate I've witnessed these 50-odd years, and they've been odd.

I don't see Texas as a whole turning blue, but am really looking forward to the county by county map so I can compare/contrast it with 2012, which had all the urban centers & the Rio Grande valley all lit up pretty blue. Very excited to see how that blue has radiated out in the last 4 years.
posted by Devils Rancher at 7:26 PM on October 21, 2016 [14 favorites]


I wanted Hillary to slap Trump silly but thinking back, I appreciate more and more how "together" Hillary was and how well she paced herself in those debates. First of all, she's under immense pressure. She was put into the position of being the savior of humanity - and I'm not joking about that - facing off against a conniving megalomaniac who's aligned himself with the very darkest impulses of human nature and who seeks to rule the free world. Second, she's a woman - so to appease the "undecideds" and the wishy-washy component of her own party, she has to better him without any showing any hint of guile herself. Lastly, he's such a goddamn loon that it's not a proper fight; more like battling an ostrich; a dangerous animal that can rip your stomach out but is difficult to fight without looking awkward yourself, and if you beat it too bad, you risk engendering sympathy for it.
posted by bonobothegreat at 7:27 PM on October 21, 2016 [53 favorites]


Michael Moore being interviewed on MSNBC called Trump the "human Molotov cocktail" of the ex-middle-class.
posted by XMLicious at 7:28 PM on October 21, 2016 [2 favorites]


Today I took off Nov. 8 & 9. Show of hands: anyone else home either/both days?

Yup. They're the Hillarydays.
posted by petebest at 7:29 PM on October 21, 2016 [13 favorites]


is Trump basically the McCarthy of our times

From the Wikipedia page on the film Good Night and Good Luck:
One complaint about the film among test audiences was their belief that the actor playing McCarthy was too over the top, not realizing that the film used actual archive footage of McCarthy himself.
Let us ponder for a moment the viewers in 2065 watching the acclaimed holomicro story of the 2016 election, dismissing this invented 'Trump' character as an absurd and clumsy fiction. "First of all, look at the terrible rendering of his hair! Even in 2016 they could do better than that."

ETA: [currently fake]
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:29 PM on October 21, 2016 [71 favorites]


My husband and I have seen the best yard sign yet in our corner of Cincinnati, at a house around the corner:

"TACO TRUCKS, 2016"
posted by mostly vowels at 7:33 PM on October 21, 2016 [20 favorites]


Donald J. Trump has done one good thing. He has galvanized a conflicted and diverse community. For years, activists and politicians have struggled to get Latinos to vote and show their power. But not until Mr. Trump’s racist rhetoric shone a light on anti-Latino sentiment did we feel the need to make our voices heard on the issues that matter to us: from proper funding for our schools, better infrastructure in our communities and financial aid, to health care that doesn’t consider poverty a pre-existing condition.

There are around 56 million of us. We are the largest ethnic minority in the United States, at almost 18 percent of the country’s population. And yet Latino students drop out of high school at a higher rate than members of any other minority. We are victims of neglect, discrimination and ignorance. We have grown up amid an entrenched disrespect for Latin culture, and we have often internalized that disrespect.
...
Almost every immigrant is just here to make a better life for himself.

That can be hard to do when the states where many immigrants live — Texas and Arizona in particular — gerrymander Latino communities out of political power and limit funding to their neighborhoods. Latinos aren’t uniformly liberal; some are conservative because of their religious beliefs or fiscal views. And yet if all of the eligible Latinos voted, a number of states would turn from red to blue.

We need a Latino Spring in this country. We need to demand power and equal opportunity.


Great NYT op-ed by John Leguizamo.
posted by joedan at 7:35 PM on October 21, 2016 [63 favorites]


Today I took off Nov. 8 & 9. Show of hands: anyone else home either/both days?


And the 7th too, because who am I kidding? No way am I getting any work done that day.
posted by invincible summer at 7:40 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]


Show of hands: anyone else home either/both days?

I thought about becoming a pollworker this year, but there's an unavoidable work committment.

Although -

Said commitment is kind of being the "stage manager" for new-employee orientations where I work. And we usually have a guest speaker at these things - someone kinda high-up to come and talk about how their career went, what their department does, that kinda thing. When I reached out to someone to be our speaker this time, he graciously agreed. But then he looked at his calendar and remarked, "oh. That's Election Day."

"Ah, I didnt' know that!" I said.

He nodded, then looked at me with a bit of a twinkle in his eye. "I think I'll start by asking everyone if they voted yet," he said, grinning, "and if they haven't, I'll take everyone to do that instead."

I should probably explain that one of the things my workplace does is work with refugees who are resettling in the US, and so we are all watching this election VERY closely
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:40 PM on October 21, 2016 [26 favorites]


> What's the advantage to separating the head of state and head of government? Running through (an admittedly short list of) countries in my head, it seems like, if you do, one ends up with power and the other one ends up fairly inconsequential

The chief advantage of separating the two is that the head of state sort of acts as a sponge to collect and neutralize excess patriotism among the population. Instead of having a situation where patriots feel emboldened to denounce opposition of the President (as both head of state and head of government) as being unpatriotic, everyone gets together and agrees that all the patriotism should be directed at the head of state, who has no real power, thereby letting people say whatever they want about the head of government and their policies without running the risk of seeming unpatriotic.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 7:42 PM on October 21, 2016 [14 favorites]


Wow, Rubio and Murphy are within the margin of error and the DNC pulled his funding?!? Whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy???
posted by xyzzy at 7:45 PM on October 21, 2016 [5 favorites]


Internal polling, perhaps, xyzzy?
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 7:52 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]


Those portraits of Clinton are great--I really like the ones from Mary Ellen Mark and Andrew Eccles.

"The Statue Delivery." I don't think I can call it anything else again.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 7:53 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]


Wow, Rubio and Murphy are within the margin of error and the DNC pulled his funding?!? Whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy???

Because he hasn't been able to move in on Rubio's 4 point lead at all for two months while Trump has been self-destructing. Every other D Senate candidate with a chance has been pushing hard and has pulled ahead. Kander can get it over the line, McGinty can get it over the line, Hassan has finally started to pull ahead of the otherwise popular Kelly Ayotte, Masto will get it over the line with help, and Ross is ridiculously close to turning NC.

There are way more important places to put money than a ho-hum candidate who literally can't move the needle at all.
posted by Talez at 7:54 PM on October 21, 2016 [11 favorites]


Don't get blood on your pantsuit when you rip his heart out and hold it beating before his eyes, Hillary

I bet I'm not the only person that sees clips of that last debate and keeps hearing a deep gravelly voice growl out: "Finish him!"
posted by los pantalones del muerte at 7:54 PM on October 21, 2016 [4 favorites]


Those voting machines are plugged into the wall. They operate independently of the web.

If this is in reference to the link Potomac Avenue posted up-thread, that post was not about voting machines. It was about how a similar attack to the one today could throw the following things off-kilter. The list from the link:

1. Emails, messages, and telephone calls (over VOIP, at least) to and from election officials and volunteers dealing with problems at polling places that inevitably pop up (ballot problems, polling place problems)
2. Voters obtaining correct information on where and when to vote, and polling place problems
3. Accurate journalistic reports of voting, vote totals, problems at the polls
4. Law enforcement activities that may be necessary if there are acts of voter intimidation or other problems
5. Lots of everyday other features of daily life, from electricity, to traffic control, to emergency services, and to the rest of what is connected to the internet grid

2 and 3 easily seem the most likely. I had to research lots of random things today from various local news outlets across the US, and many local news websites were down (including, ahem, Cleveland.com). As a swing state voter, I can easily see this being a huge issue and a potential headache.

Which is why early voting is all the more important!
posted by mostly vowels at 7:54 PM on October 21, 2016 [16 favorites]


Shoulda kept reading. Yasaman beat me to it.
posted by los pantalones del muerte at 7:55 PM on October 21, 2016


So, according to Rachel Maddow, Donald Trump's best joke at the Al Smith dinner, the one about plagiarism, was plagiarized. She showed a cartoon from over the summer that was in a paper popular on the Hill.

Here's the clip.

In this case, I'd say that it's possible that it was written independently.
posted by zachlipton at 7:58 PM on October 21, 2016 [8 favorites]


Donald Trump just hugged the American flag as people chanted "drain the swamp" and the crowd went wild

Forget it, Donald, America's just not that into you.
posted by emjaybee at 7:59 PM on October 21, 2016 [4 favorites]


She has a special pantsuit exactly the color of blood just for that occasion.

Yes, but does Trump own a brown suit?
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 8:01 PM on October 21, 2016 [14 favorites]


I might be a little over invested in seeing Rubio get spanked. My parents will be first time FL voters this year and I CANNOT WAIT for them to get their NY liberal butts to the polls and spray blue all over those ballots.
posted by xyzzy at 8:02 PM on October 21, 2016 [3 favorites]


So, I can't take the day off, as I return on Saturday from two weeks of travel and meetings (hey, Boston!), but I'll probably have MeFi open all day. And I'll likely go home early. And I have every intention of wearing my Nasty Women Vote hoodie that I bought for the occasion!
posted by Sophie1 at 8:02 PM on October 21, 2016


Susan Chira writes in the NYT: Thank You, Donald Trump
Donald J. Trump could well go down in history as a feminist hero.

For decades, feminists have tried to stir outrage about how women are routinely groped, belittled, and weight-shamed. Yet Mr. Trump’s words and boasts have shown millions of voters, including people who believe feminism is a dirty word, what women endure every day.

This was supposed to be an election where Hillary Clinton had to convince voters that a woman had the fitness and temperament to be president.

Yet instead of worrying whether a woman is too emotional, impulsive and unqualified for high office, voters have been weighing whether that’s true of the man running to be president.
posted by zachlipton at 8:03 PM on October 21, 2016 [61 favorites]


So, according to Rachel Maddow, Donald Trump's best joke at the Al Smith dinner, the one about plagiarism, was plagiarized. She showed a cartoon from over the summer that was in a paper popular on the Hill.

Wait, so a joke about plagiarism was plagiarized? This election gets more meta by the hour...
posted by mochapickle at 8:03 PM on October 21, 2016 [8 favorites]


Susan Chira writes in the NYT: Thank You, Donald Trump

I'm not super duper fond of the "thank a piggish man for a woman's success" framing here, but I figured it's worth sharing.
posted by zachlipton at 8:05 PM on October 21, 2016 [7 favorites]


David Malki subscribed to every candidate's mailing list back in February. He's crunched the numbers and gives a lot of examples.

I had no idea that Infowars sold its own brand of male enhancement pills, but it makes perfect sense.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 8:05 PM on October 21, 2016 [21 favorites]


You could say Trump labeoufed it.
posted by Yowser at 8:06 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]


Trump, in Newtown, mixes up analogies here, calls Syrian refugees the "great white horse" rather than a "Trojan horse" like he usually does

Yes, he is cracking up, or rather, the cracks are really starting to show: "Madame President when you're nasty" really struck home with this one

Makes me regret a bit less that she didn't shoot right back in #2 with "YOU, sir, are NO gentleman!"
/inMyDreams
posted by goinWhereTheClimateSuitsMyClothes at 8:06 PM on October 21, 2016


LA Times: "Indiana State Police chief reports cases of voter fraud"
Indiana’s top cop suggested Friday that investigators had uncovered many instances of voter fraud in the state, an allegation that adds fuel to a fiery debate over whether elections are “rigged” and subject to abuse.

Indiana State Police Supt. Douglas Carter said in a local TV interview that Gov. Mike Pence “absolutely did not misspeak” this week when he warned supporters of potential voter fraud during a campaign stop in Nevada. Carter said he believed there was voter fraud in “every state,” including Indiana.

Carter refused to provide details about how many instances of voter fraud police have found, or the exact nature of the fraud — whether investigators found, for example, cases of people registering to vote multiple times or whether those ineligible to vote tried to register.
posted by Celsius1414 at 8:09 PM on October 21, 2016 [2 favorites]


>Carter refused to provide details about how many instances of voter fraud police have found, or the exact nature of the fraud

"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence."
posted by Sing Or Swim at 8:13 PM on October 21, 2016 [61 favorites]


My first meme ever: http://i.imgur.com/mXyrSLO.jpg
posted by goinWhereTheClimateSuitsMyClothes at 8:13 PM on October 21, 2016 [6 favorites]


I am pretty confident that trump's tax returns will drop about a week before the election.

I disagree. Why are you pretty confident?
posted by cashman at 9:44 PM on October 21 [1 favorite +] [!]


I think the impact of leaking such a powerful bit of information will entice someone, somewhere in the chain to let them slip. It's a scandal that everyone knows exists, but because it hasn't been revealed, we can't actually act on. Like when police misconduct forces prosecutors to not use certain bits of evidence. I think everyone in america *knows* trump's taxes are filthy. But until it's proven...
posted by rebent at 8:15 PM on October 21, 2016 [2 favorites]


Every high ranking Republican official knows there's voter fraud going on... because they're the ones doing it. After the "Chicago Problem" in 1960, the GOP pledged NEVER to be out-frauded by anybody in any election.
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:16 PM on October 21, 2016 [5 favorites]


Donald J. Trump could well go down in history as a feminist hero.

I think it will more along the lines of, "if you can't be a good example, at least you can serve as a horrible warning."
posted by ActingTheGoat at 8:18 PM on October 21, 2016 [14 favorites]


A little late, but:

Anyone know of any particularly edible footwear?

I bought a pair a shoes from a drug dealer once. I don't know what he laced them with, but I was tripping all day.
posted by twirlypen at 8:18 PM on October 21, 2016 [98 favorites]


HOT DAMN my ballot just arrived

I am going to vote for I-732 because climate change is already here and I don't trust the 'alliance' to get a bill together by 2018, if they couldn't get something together for 2016. I hope that we can use the momentum to get better things passed in the future. And I'm stoked to vote for Pramila Jayapal to get more leftist women into Congress.
posted by Existential Dread at 8:21 PM on October 21, 2016 [5 favorites]


> Carter refused to provide details about how many instances of voter fraud police have found, or the exact nature of the fraud

Put up or shut up, asshole.
posted by rtha at 8:22 PM on October 21, 2016 [25 favorites]


Makes me regret a bit less that she didn't shoot right back in #2 with "YOU, sir, are NO gentleman!"

I get where you're coming from, but the fact that she didn't is an example of what made her performances so impressive. She resisted the temptation, and just stepped back and let him hang himself.

(Surely already posted here in a previous thread, but if you haven't read Ezra Klein at Vox on this, it's great: "The result has been a political achievement of awesome dimensions, but one that Clinton gets scarce credit for because it looks like something Trump is doing, rather than something she is doing — which is, of course, the point.")
posted by une_heure_pleine at 8:24 PM on October 21, 2016 [23 favorites]


mattdidthat: "SECRET SERVICE AGENT SMITH: All posts, election is over. Prepare to stand down. Where is Pumpkin?"

Reading this made me curious about what everyone's actual Secret Service codenames were. According to Wikipedia:
Ben Carson - Eli
Hillary Cllinton - Evergreen
Bill Clinton - Eagle
Bernie Sanders - Intrepid
Donald Trump - Mogul
Melania Trump - Muse
Mike Pence - Hoosier
Karen Pence - Hummingbird
Tim Kaine - Daredevil
A few notes:
1) The biggest lol is Mike Pence's. Like, his only distinguishing characteristic is that he's from Indiana.
2) The biggest wtf is Tim Kaine's. Is there something the Secret Service knows that we don't? Has Tim Kaine been spotted between 34th St. and 59th St. dispensing justice? Does he have big plans for Snake River Canyon?
3) Of course, Bill gets a bad-ass nickname, although Bernie's is also pretty cool.
posted by mhum at 8:27 PM on October 21, 2016 [50 favorites]


Well, that's just more proof that Bernie is a secret Canadian.
posted by maudlin at 8:31 PM on October 21, 2016


The campaigns don't take the weekend off and neither do the women accusing Donald Trump. Another woman will hold a press conference Saturday with, you guessed it, Gloria Allred to accuse Trump "of victimizing her with inappropriate sexual conduct."
posted by zachlipton at 8:35 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]


They were going to give Tim Kaine the name "Eyebrows" but it was already taken by MeFi's own.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:36 PM on October 21, 2016 [31 favorites]


Gloria Allred is having a press conference tomorrow for #11 to come forward.
posted by Talez at 8:36 PM on October 21, 2016


Bill and Hillary's code names are being reused from their time in the White House in the 90s.
posted by xyzzy at 8:37 PM on October 21, 2016 [2 favorites]


Donald Trump - Mogul
That makes sense:

noun: mogul; plural noun: moguls
a bump on a ski slope formed by the repeated turns of skiers over the same path.

He's a bump on the downward slope of the Republican party, caused by the repeated turns of Republicans over the same path.
posted by notbuddha at 8:39 PM on October 21, 2016 [27 favorites]


Come for the great analysis of the shifting electoral situation, stay for Lisa Desjardins nerding out over maps. (SLYT)
posted by coolname at 8:42 PM on October 21, 2016 [2 favorites]


I want to like WA Initiative 735 (the anti-Citizens United constitutional amendment bill) but the drafters got a little too excited and decided to remove spending money as protected political speech from individuals as well as corporations. That troubles me.
posted by Existential Dread at 8:42 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]


Any cynics out there find this breathless Ezra Klein article hilarious? Like it takes some kind of debate genius to outsmart Trump.
posted by R.F.Simpson at 8:43 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]


Well, none of the Republican challengers managed to come up with a successful strategy.
posted by une_heure_pleine at 8:45 PM on October 21, 2016 [16 favorites]


In other upcoming events, James 'selectively edited' O'Keefe has a Part III coming out Monday, and he's making himself sound overly important again:
Anything happens to me, there's a deadman's switch on Part III, which will be released Monday. @HillaryClinton and @donnabrazile implicated.
Nothing like the old "the secrets they don't want you to know" trick to hype something up.
posted by zachlipton at 8:45 PM on October 21, 2016 [2 favorites]



I want to be president so I can have a cool codename.
posted by Jalliah at 8:46 PM on October 21, 2016 [8 favorites]


Husband/wife pairs have the same starting letter. What's Anne's code name?
posted by ctmf at 8:48 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]


Mother Jones has a good piece on the Clinton campaign's strategy for spending in red states that are pretty unlikely to go blue:
Arizona could serve a strategic purpose that Indiana did not. Unlike the Hoosier State, it has a large and increasingly politically active Latino population. Tellingly, when Clinton campaign manager Robbie Mook announced the investments in Arizona, he also announced an ad buy in Texas, another state with a large Latino population that was thought to be out of play for Democrats until the Donald Trump campaign began its recent implosion. If she wins Arizona, Clinton could bring Republicans to the table on immigration reform by proving to them that they have no shot at the White House—that even formerly safe red states will turn blue—if they continue to hold the Trump line on immigration.
posted by gladly at 8:50 PM on October 21, 2016 [17 favorites]


Each family has its own starting letter. Chelsea Clinton was "Energy." The Obamas are Renegade, Renaissance, Radiance, and Rosebud. I don't think Mrs. Kaine's code name has been released yet. (On post: Dogwood? That's so bad it's good.)
posted by xyzzy at 8:54 PM on October 21, 2016 [7 favorites]


Husband/wife pairs have the same starting letter. What's Anne's code name?

Dogwood.

edit: Not being facetious. Totally serious.
posted by Talez at 8:54 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]


Anne is apparently "Dogwood" - state flower of Virginia.
posted by tavella at 8:54 PM on October 21, 2016


Tellingly, when Clinton campaign manager Robbie Mook announced the investments in Arizona, he also announced an ad buy in Texas, another state with a large Latino population that was thought to be out of play for Democrats until the Donald Trump campaign began its recent implosion.
05/30/2016, from an interview undoubtedly conducted some time earlier -
So which states do you think Trump puts in play? I asked, mentioning the possibility of Georgia, which some think could go Democratic for the first time since her husband won it in 1992.

“Texas!” she exclaimed, eyes wide, as if daring me to question this, which I did. “You are not going to win Texas,” I said. She smiled, undaunted. “If black and Latino voters come out and vote, we could win Texas,” she told me firmly, practically licking her lips.

posted by carsonb at 8:56 PM on October 21, 2016 [8 favorites]


Point being, the Clinton campaign has considered Texas 'in play' for quite some time.
posted by carsonb at 8:57 PM on October 21, 2016 [7 favorites]


The real question now is, who is going to play Donald Trump in Game Change 2: The Facepalming? Jon Voight with a wig?

Nobody but Alec Baldwin shall be permitted to portray Trump ever again. In the third debate, Trump himself was reduced to doing an Alec-Baldwin-doing-an-impression-of-Trump impression.
posted by dersins at 9:03 PM on October 21, 2016 [30 favorites]


Some of these codenames are clearly affectionate:

Barack Obama: Renegade
John McCain: Phoenix
Ronald Reagan: Rawhide
Jimmy Carter: Deacon

Some are indifferent or bland:

Mike Pence: Hoosier
Sarah Palin: Denali
Dan Quayle: Scorecard

Several have a little bit of nastiness:

George W. Bush: Tumbler (after the pretzel incident?)
Roger Clinton: Headache
Karenna Gore: Smurfette
Todd Palin: Driller

Joe Lieberman is Laser. I can't decide if that's wtf or lol.
posted by mattdidthat at 9:09 PM on October 21, 2016 [17 favorites]


Mike Pence - Hoosier

As a St. Louisan, I find this hilarious.
posted by saul wright at 9:13 PM on October 21, 2016 [12 favorites]


Please forgive me if this is a derail, but why do they use codenames if they're public knowledge? What does it make easier?
posted by kalimac at 9:19 PM on October 21, 2016 [9 favorites]


"Phoenix" may he fittingly poetic, but it's also just where McCain is from. Category 2.
posted by Sys Rq at 9:19 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]


An old DC joke: Jimmy Carter's code name
was Key Bridge because it goes in and out of Rosslyn.
posted by humanfont at 9:20 PM on October 21, 2016 [3 favorites]


I'm taking the day after the election off, definitely. I went to put it on our vacation calendar at work and discovered I'd previously signed up for an industry breakfast at 7 am that morning, not realizing what day it was. Hahaha no. I've already gotten my money back for the ticket; I'm not planning on being conscious at 7 am the day after the election, but whether I'll be curled in the fetal position sobbing or just blissfully hungover remains to be seen.
posted by skycrashesdown at 9:26 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]


George W. Bush: Tumbler

It was actually Trailblazer.
posted by Talez at 9:27 PM on October 21, 2016


Please forgive me if this is a derail, but why do they use codenames if they're public knowledge? What does it make easier?

They're words that are brief and easily recognizable when you're in a crowded space or the channel might not be 100%. Same deal behind NATO phonetics.
posted by Talez at 9:29 PM on October 21, 2016 [11 favorites]


Hannity has his head so far up Trump's ass that, when he's supposed to be conducting an interview, he instead does Trump's job and attempts to refute allegations of sexual assault for him.
posted by zachlipton at 9:30 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]


posted by kalimac why do they use codenames if they're public knowledge? What does it make easier?

Communication. On a security detail, you need brevity without sacrificing clarity to reduce misunderstandings or mistakes, particularly when (as noted above) channels are not secure. Codenames and codewords also convey complex information and reduce radio traffic the same way first responders use codes like "10-4" or "211", the same way civilians use "411" to mean "information."
posted by mattdidthat at 9:31 PM on October 21, 2016 [3 favorites]


"They were going to give Tim Kaine the name "Eyebrows" but it was already taken by MeFi's own."

Tim Kaine is cool enough that I'll share! Not everyone can achieve a wicked awesome eyebrow game like me and Mr. Kaine.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 9:37 PM on October 21, 2016 [40 favorites]


And I'm stoked to vote for Pramila Jayapal to get more leftist women into Congress.

This race (for retiring Jim McDermott's seat in the House) was a relief from the start, since the two candidates to come out of the primary were both Democrats. I voted for Jayapal, too, but I'm frustrated that I couldn't also vote for her opponent. They both look really good.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 9:39 PM on October 21, 2016


Favorite code name joke: "Al Gore is so boring his Secret Service code name is Al Gore." --Al Gore
posted by scaryblackdeath at 9:40 PM on October 21, 2016 [31 favorites]


I'm still a day behind on the last thread. Busy week!

Before I start catching up, wanted to add a quick PSA that bears repeating as we get near the end of this crazy ride:

Please start marking your calendars for 2018! I can't stomach the idea of another 2010 Tea Party midterm takeover. Regardless of whatever happens with redistricting, we can all do better with GOTV for the midterms!
posted by p3t3 at 9:43 PM on October 21, 2016 [30 favorites]


Favorite code name joke: "Al Gore is so boring his Secret Service code name is Al Gore." --Al Gore

Speechwriter Mark Katz has a great story for The Moth about the time he stole this joke and got it into an actual Al Gore speech and then dreaded admitting it.
posted by zachlipton at 9:45 PM on October 21, 2016 [4 favorites]


Not only is Dogwood the state flower of Virginia, but it's a lovely flower, and it's a common piece of Catholic symbolism (the dogwood is claimed in legend to be the wood of the cross, so God made its flowers extra beautiful and the cruciform flowers are tipped with rusty red holes for the stigmata, and they tremble in every breeze in awe and wonder), which is really nice for Ms. Holton, a Virginian who is a devout Catholic like her husband.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 9:54 PM on October 21, 2016 [58 favorites]


Another part of that story, sometimes anyhow, is that El Queso Grande twisted its branches so it would never have to be used for crucifixion again.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 10:05 PM on October 21, 2016 [6 favorites]


"is that El Queso Grande twisted its branches so it would never have to be used for crucifixion again."

Yeah, definitely part of the story! (Of course there are no dogwoods in the Middle East, but it's still a pretty just-so story and a lovely flower and a popular blossom for Easter decorations in the US.)

This campaign is sort of a liturgist's secular dream, because Hillary's campaign is so attentive to symbolism, like her white suits (for the suffragettes) and the "Dogwood" code name and so on. These are people who are really attentive to detail and know a lot about the resonances of symbols! It's like a whole ritualization and celebration of American symbols and history.

I studied liturgy in grad school.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 10:09 PM on October 21, 2016 [53 favorites]


Please forgive me if this is a derail, but why do they use codenames if they're public knowledge? What does it make easier?

Codenames are unique. Having codenames for Obama's daughters means not having the awkwardness of multiple "Miss Obama"s, and not falling back on the informality of first names--which may not be unique in any particular gathering. "Evergreen" means Hillary Clinton, whereas "Mrs. Clinton" could've formerly referred to Bill's mom (deceased in 94), Chelsea (I don't think she's taken her husband's name), or Roger's wife.

They're a matter of expediency, not secrecy. They serve as a very mild short-term veil of secrecy, in that most people who overhear a fragment of conversation won't know the names off-hand, but that won't preserve any privacy from the press.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 10:14 PM on October 21, 2016 [10 favorites]


Dan Quayle: Scorecard Potatoe
posted by kirkaracha at 10:25 PM on October 21, 2016 [5 favorites]


Unidentified white powder mailed to Clinton HQ in Brooklyn. It's the anthrax scare all over again?
posted by dis_integration at 10:29 PM on October 21, 2016


Unidentified white powder mailed to Clinton HQ in Brooklyn. It's the anthrax scare all over again?
Or Trump's surplus cocaine.
(well, SOMEBODY was going to say it)
posted by oneswellfoop at 10:32 PM on October 21, 2016


Someone mailed white powder to Trump back in April, so not unprecedented this season.
posted by zachlipton at 10:32 PM on October 21, 2016


> I think he thinks Brexit is horse food perhaps...

He's close. It's actually a dog's breakfast.
posted by vbfg at 11:50 PM on October 21, 2016 [5 favorites]


The "Trump is Brexit" narrative has filtered down to Trump's surrogates. That is the bill of goods they were selling to Anderson Cooper this evening while the Dems sort of chuckled and then watched a McMuffin news package together. They were dismissive of his campaign and what signal Utah is sending with those polling numbers. I hope the dismissiveness of his surrogates isn't representative of the GOP as a whole.
posted by xyzzy at 11:59 PM on October 21, 2016 [2 favorites]


I requested Nov 8th and 9th off from work months ago, knowing that I would be dreadfully hungover following the election but not knowing whether it would be from champagne or whiskey on the rocks.
posted by pupperduck at 1:44 AM on October 22, 2016 [4 favorites]


Can we find a way to also give her an Emmy?

For my money, the DNC actually does deserve one. Top quality on all levels, really mesmerizing television.

And, for the heck of it, they should give Hillary the award for Best Reality Host too. 'Cause you aren't gonna get anything better or more real than what she's had to go through this, um, season.
posted by gusottertrout at 2:08 AM on October 22, 2016 [10 favorites]


Btw, I should say, Clinton for me isn't the lesser of two evils. I think she's going to be a great president. And I'm excited to vote for her.
posted by persona au gratin at 2:34 AM on October 22, 2016 [43 favorites]


Another thing about the codenames (like international callsigns) seems to be that even if communications are mangled they're easy to tell apart from the rhythm of the word and disposition of the vowels. I wonder if anyone's ever done a study of the particular dialect of English security operatives use.
posted by Grangousier at 2:44 AM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


Thanks to early voting, I've already done my part to rig the election for Clinton. It would be cool if my state of GA goes for her. Unlikely, but things are tightening up. With early voting so common now, I wonder what percentage of voters actually vote on Election Day anymore? It seems that the results will be more and more inevitable as more early votes are cast.

Based on my Facebook feed and snippets of conversations I hear, there are an awful lot of people who think that Clinton is the biggest criminal to ever run for public office and that a Trump win is inevitable. Assuming the unthinkable doesn't happen, I wonder what their reactions will be on November 9th? It would be nice if they were shocked back into some sort of reality based politics, but that is probably too much to ask for.
posted by TedW at 3:58 AM on October 22, 2016 [6 favorites]


I'm getting the feeling from the discussion here that there's a growing sense that Hillary only needs to win, and not by much, to be president - that the big prize is all the smaller races, where a broad tide of change will restore functionality to government, deflate any vote tampering complaints and diffuse the hatred that's all focused on Hillary. This Canadian sends his best wishes to all you down-ticket Democrats.
posted by bonobothegreat at 4:23 AM on October 22, 2016 [11 favorites]


> ...a broad tide of change will restore functionality to government, deflate any vote tampering complaints and diffuse the hatred that's all focused on Hillary.

Yeah, that would be nice. We should be this hopeful.
posted by ardgedee at 4:27 AM on October 22, 2016 [4 favorites]


Not even billionaires have "surplus" cocaine unless they're a cartel boss.
posted by spitbull at 4:27 AM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


I plan to take the day of election off and get my head examined. The eyes, specifically.

I tried to talk the office mananager to schedule our office relocation for that day but failed ...
posted by tilde at 4:29 AM on October 22, 2016


Anyone know of any particularly edible footwear?

Sam Simmons has you covered.
posted by flabdablet at 4:39 AM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


noun: mogul; plural noun: moguls

So in point of fact the term refers to the Mughal Empire, a Persian (and Muslim) imperium covering modern South Asia from the early 16th to late 19th century.

So like "pundit," the casual use of which mocks a Hindu honorific for a learned teacher, "mogul" is an Orientalist calc that compares a capitalist bigwig to a Persian emperor. It has a racist history as a term. And nothing to do with ski bumps.
posted by spitbull at 5:02 AM on October 22, 2016 [12 favorites]


She Never Spoke of It to Her Husband. Then She Heard the Trump Tape. (NYT)

Far from the campaign trail, the shock waves about Mr. Trump’s crude language, captured in a recording, and accusations against him of sexual assault by numerous women are reverberating through marriages and relationships across the country. Couples say they are talking to each other about the degradation of women in new ways and revealing assaults that had been buried for years.

posted by petebest at 5:03 AM on October 22, 2016 [18 favorites]


I'm getting the feeling from the discussion here that there's a growing sense that Hillary only needs to win, and not by much, to be president - that the big prize is all the smaller races,

That's not how American politics works. Success in downticket races is always pegged tightly to the popular vote. There are exceptions but, that's the path to success. The better Clinton does in a state, the more she promotes her own campaign there, the better off the other D candidates will do. And vice versa which is why Rs, even those who hate him, feel pressure to support him since there's no good way to distance yourself from the Presidential contender.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 5:07 AM on October 22, 2016 [6 favorites]


As a furriner, all I can ask is that you get out and vote.

Please.

Just vote.
posted by flabdablet at 5:20 AM on October 22, 2016 [13 favorites]


Paul Ryan Nosedives

If Trump were to lose the election, 24 percent of Republicans surveyed would still want him to be the face of the party, while only 15 percent would like his supporter Ryan for that role.

Wow, in this poll a quarter of people who admit to being part of the GOP still want Trump to hang around as "the face of the party".

. . . Having some conflicted feelings on how badly I want the GOP to implode.
posted by petebest at 5:25 AM on October 22, 2016 [7 favorites]


Speaking of Arizona, looks like known racist asshole Joe Arpaio is going to be turning in his badge.
posted by tivalasvegas at 5:29 AM on October 22, 2016 [80 favorites]


If Trumpism had a politically competent leader, I'd think it's possible that this ends with a far-right splinter party emerging as a genuine part of American politics, winning a small but significant number of elections in deep-red states/districts and in some cases forcing Republicans to work either with them or the Democrats to win legislative majorities on anything -- an American UKIP, in other words. As is, it's going to be a popcorn-worthy clusterfuck.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 5:38 AM on October 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


That 24% that still hearts Trump is the greatest gift to the democrats. Republicans are so stuck aren't they? They can't appeal to their deplorables without turning off their respectables and they can't appeal to the respectables without turning off the deplorables.

Win win for America I say.
posted by ian1977 at 5:40 AM on October 22, 2016 [15 favorites]


Quite. In retrospect, Republicans probably should have spent less of the Obama presidency worrying about the ACA death spirals....
posted by tivalasvegas at 5:50 AM on October 22, 2016 [4 favorites]


Via PEC Senate Races

Columns are:
1- Democratic win probability today (%)
2- current median polling margin (Democratic>0)
3- win probability adding 2% to Democratic nominee
4- win probability adding 2% to Republican nominee
5- two-letter state code
6- November win probability (random-diffusion model)


0 -20 0 0 AL 0
9 -4 25 2 AK 11
50 0 75 25 AZ 50
0 -15 0 0 AR 0
100 26 100 100 CA 100
95 5 99 84 CO 93
100 13 100 100 CT 100
100 83 100 100 DC 100
100 14 100 100 DE 100
91 4 98 75 FL 89
9 -4 25 2 GA 11
100 31 100 100 HI 100
0 -24 0 0 ID 0
100 25 100 100 IL 100
0 -8 2 0 IN 1
16 -3 37 5 IA 18
0 -16 0 0 KS 0
0 -20 0 0 KY 0
0 -14 0 0 LA 0
100 13 100 100 ME 100
100 22 100 100 MD 100
100 19 100 100 MA 100
100 9 100 99 MI 100
95 5 99 84 MN 93
0 -11 0 0 MS 0
2 -6 9 0 MO 4
0 -13.5 0 0 MT 0
0 -16 0 0 NE 0
84 3 95 63 NV 82
98 6 100 91 NH 96
100 15 100 100 NJ 100
100 11 100 100 NM 100
100 24 100 100 NY 100
75 2 91 50 NC 73
0 -19 0 0 ND 0
50 0 75 25 OH 50
0 -20 0 0 OK 0
100 9 100 99 OR 100
98 6.5 100 93 PA 98
100 14.5 100 100 RI 100
9 -4 25 2 SC 11
0 -13 0 0 SD 0
0 -15 0 0 TN 0
12 -3.5 31 3 TX 15
2 -6 9 0 UT 4
100 28 100 100 VT 100
100 10.5 100 100 VA 100
100 17 100 100 WA 100
0 -22 0 0 WV 0
99 7 100 95 WI 98
0 -35 0 0 WY 0
posted by petebest at 5:51 AM on October 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


Texas, Missouri, Alaska, Georgia!

Vote! Vote! Vote! Vote!
posted by petebest at 5:52 AM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


Alas, Kansas, Kentucky, and Louisiana - feels bad man.
posted by petebest at 5:56 AM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


Wait -- he thinks Murphy has an 89% chance of beating Rubio after the Dems pulled money out of the race?
posted by schadenfrau at 6:04 AM on October 22, 2016


WTF MN? 95? We are gonna let PA beat us??!?!??
posted by ian1977 at 6:05 AM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


Oops never mind though that was for pres election.
posted by ian1977 at 6:05 AM on October 22, 2016


Wait -- he thinks Murphy has an 89% chance of beating Rubio after the Dems pulled money out of the race?

He's got an error in his data. FL should be -4 not +4 so assume all numbers are for Rubio.
posted by Talez at 6:09 AM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


They can't appeal to their deplorables without turning off their respectables and they can't appeal to the respectables without turning off the deplorables.

The "respectable" Republicans are only reaping the whirlwind their fathers sowed in the 1960's. They're only "respectable" because they control a lot of money, and they began to realize that they didn't have the numbers to push the policies they really wanted in an honest vote, because you'd have to be an idiot to vote for people who clearly want to plunder the poor and middle class to make themselves even richer.

So they needed more voters, and to get more voters they turned to the deplorables -- two groups of them actually, the racists and the theocracy-yearning evangelicals. Both groups are more prominent in the south, thus the "southern strategy." There's some overlap but they respond to slightly different carrots, which the "responsible" Republicans have been dangling in front of them on a long stick for roughly my entire life.

Thing is, even a very stupid horse will eventually realize that it never quite reaches the goddamn carrot, and one of the things Trump has done this year is blow the illusion that the Republican elite will ever give the deplorables what they really want. They can't, even if they don't mind living in a country themselves where blacks use separate bathrooms and sex outside of married reproduction is illegal, because the minute they let those single-issue groups have their issue, poof! They have no reason to ever vote again.

So for practical purposes at the moment there are about five parties in the US. The Democrats are still a coalition but as we saw it's an uneasy one between the actual left and our own "respectable" elites, who bear a striking resemblance to the Republican "respectables," who in turn have exactly nothing in common with the great-againers and the evangelicals who used to be part of their party coalition. History teaches that these five groups will somehow coalesce into two major parties again, because they have to in order for first past the post governance to function. But other than the Republican and Democratic elites coming together, which seems quite likely to me at this point, it's hard to see how the other three groups will align.
posted by Bringer Tom at 6:11 AM on October 22, 2016 [28 favorites]


I get Election Day off from work, so I'm going to be a Poll Watcher, which is a long day. Then, I'll be up late watching election results.

And I was planning to use cocktails to get through Election Night, but I just realized that the presentation that I'm giving at a professional conference is on Nov. 9th. Fuuuuu---

I might have to take Nov. 10th off just to recover from everything.
posted by rabbitrabbit at 6:13 AM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


Crap - sorry folks, even though I linked off the Senate polls those appear to be Presidential race numbers. My apologies.

FWIW senate snapshot for some races here:

State Margin Power
NH Hassan +2.5% 100.0
NV Cortez Masto +3.0% 58.8
PA Toomey +0.5% 17.3
NC Burr +1.5% 16.2
MO Blunt +4.0% 9.8
WI Feingold +5.5% 4.5
IN Bayh +6.0% 3.9
LA TBD +8.0% 3.6
AZ McCain +10.0% 1.9
FL Rubio +6.0% 1.5
IL Duckworth +7.0% 1.2
IA Grassley +17.0% 0.7
CO Bennet +12.5% 0.4
AK Murkowski +38.0% 0.4
OH Portman +15.0% 0.3
posted by petebest at 6:13 AM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


3) Of course, Bill gets a bad-ass nickname, although Bernie's is also pretty cool.


During the campaign, Sanders has flown coach, taking a middle seat between strangers, gone on Amtrak, and as always, walked unescorted around DC. I suspect the code name is a reminder to the agents not to expect him to retreat towards them when he's in a crowd.
posted by ocschwar at 6:20 AM on October 22, 2016 [22 favorites]




Anne is apparently "Dogwood" - state flower of Virginia.

Actually it's a tree and a flower.
posted by jon1270 at 6:26 AM on October 22, 2016 [14 favorites]


So the campaign is tightening.

Trump has three events. One of which is in Virginia. Clinton and her team have 11 GOTV events in six locations in five states. The ground game difference is utterly unbelievable. They are not resting on their laurels. They are just obliterating him on the ground.

Trump on the other hand has pulled in his VP and has nobody else campaigning for him. They come for Trump or not at all I guess.
posted by Talez at 6:29 AM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


Trump is speaking in Gettysburg today to lay out his first 100 days. Gettysburg. Cuz Lincoln? Give me a break.
posted by ian1977 at 6:31 AM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


Yeah, I wouldn't get too cocky about the plight of the Republicans. Think of this election as potentially being the Reagan/Mondale election, where the Dems got slaughtered. It only took eight years for Bill to "triangulate" and piss off the Republicans by stealing the middle.

Right now, that's almost exactly McMullin's goal, to triangulate from the right, putting a stake in Lee Atwater and the Southern Strategy and reach in to steal back some votes from the Dems by use of moderate or even liberal social policy and conservative monetary policy and state rights. If McMullin, or someone like him, could win over some of the Republican "respectables" there are some good reasons to think they might be able to succeed in coercing voters to a "new" more moderate conservative party.

Things like the decline in power of unions and changes in social landscape since Reagan's time matched with some inconsistent messaging of the main branch of the Democratic party which will also be facing a pull to the left from within their ranks, could open some space for a Clinton from the right if they can deliver a message that resonates with moderate voters. If the candidate is sufficiently strong on racial and social issues, I could see the Dems even losing some of their base if they aren't careful. Expecting more than 16 years of Democratic rule in the White House is a lot to ask, and I'm doubtful it'll happen unless the Republicans are complete morons, which,as much as we might like to believe that seems unlikely given how effectively they've managed to corral Democrats over the years around everything but the presidency.

How gerrymandering will be addressed and where that leaves both parties is the unknown factor. If that isn't brought in line, then the Republicans could still be stuck with their nutty fringe holding them back and the party could splinter, which would make the next census election a real nightmare. The Democrats might not be much better off though if they are seen as being in control of the country by dint of having the presidency, but are unable to do much with it due to the usual wrangling in congress. It looks a lot like a major shift is about to happen, but it's hard to predict exactly how it will all turn out.
posted by gusottertrout at 6:33 AM on October 22, 2016 [31 favorites]


“Later, he called and left me a message. ‘Can you believe this? Who would say this? I don’t want people to think this about you,’” she said. “He thought that I would try to go out with him so people wouldn’t think that’s why he wouldn’t go out with me.”

Not for the first time the thought that one of Trump's motivation for running is that he can set up a juvenile end of world might as well fuck while we have the chance situation.

Jindal declared that Republicans "must stop being the stupid party"?

Jindal does not lead by example.
posted by juiceCake at 6:34 AM on October 22, 2016 [6 favorites]


I don't think it's Trump's idea but the lack of a ground game does lend some credence to the belief of a rigged election. If he gets beaten soundly then some of the non-trumpers would be swayed by such a wide gap. We already know that many people on all sides are abandoning facts so regardless of how much press there was about no ground game and terrible resource allocation by Trump they could possibly be drawn to a broken democracy narrative. This is only helped by the really significant lack of Clinton enthusiasm on social media. After all how could she win when all anyone sees is negative stuff about her?

Sure, we see all of these things but the average American doesn't pay that much attention.
posted by JakeEXTREME at 6:36 AM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


Trump is speaking in Gettysburg today to lay out his first 100 days. Gettysburg. Cuz Lincoln? Give me a break.

To be fair, Gettysburg is deep red Trump country in an extremely important swing state.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:36 AM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


even if some people think it's rigged, so what? Some people believe in chemtrails and lizard people. If they also believe that politics is rigged and they won't vote for trump 2.0 so be it. They can stay home and shake their fists for a few cycles.
posted by ian1977 at 6:38 AM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


I'm worried they won't stay home when they shake their fists.
posted by JakeEXTREME at 6:39 AM on October 22, 2016 [16 favorites]


So do we need to have a trump supporter outreach program? A hug for every bigot? They're gonna do what they're gonna do.
posted by ian1977 at 6:42 AM on October 22, 2016 [7 favorites]


If McMuffin wants to triangulate he's gonna need to polish up his appeal to women. And somehow I don't see that happening.
posted by schadenfrau at 6:47 AM on October 22, 2016


Right now, that's almost exactly McMullin's goal, to triangulate from the right, putting a stake in Lee Atwater and the Southern Strategy and reach in to steal back some votes from the Dems by use of moderate or even liberal social policy and conservative monetary policy and state rights. If McMullin, or someone like him, could win over some of the Republican "respectables" there are some good reasons to think they might be able to succeed in coercing voters to a "new" more moderate conservative party.

Except McMuffin isn't "triangulating", he's running a rehash of the Romney campaign with bog standard Republican positions, specifically targeting a relatively small religious group in states that can't possibly win an election. Hard to see how that scales up into anything other than Mitt Romney in Egg's wildest dreams. And Romney lost the election.

If Egg, or any Republican, is going to threaten in a Presidental again, they're either going to have to change something, anything, about their message to expand the party, or turnout every white person in America. Trump is trying the later, and it's (likely) not working. Egg isn't trying either, he's living in Paul Ryan's Earth 2 "better way", meaning the same way as every other time they lost.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:47 AM on October 22, 2016 [9 favorites]


A blow out generally defuses emotions, it doesn't stoke them up. So while some of his supporters might go stupid and try and lash out, most, I think, will simply slink back into the shadows until the next would be dictator comes along.
posted by gusottertrout at 6:49 AM on October 22, 2016 [7 favorites]


Each family has its own starting letter.

Ben Carson - Eli
Hillary Cllinton - Evergreen
Bill Clinton - Eagle


I mean, there are only 26 letters so there's sure to be some repetition, but this is still pretty funny.
posted by rabbitrabbit at 6:50 AM on October 22, 2016


> I don't think it's Trump's idea but the lack of a ground game does lend some credence to the belief of a rigged election.

It's worth rereading Scott Shapiro's I went undercover into the Trump campaign... and couldn't believe what I found.

Essentially, the problem is only half that Trump has no ground game. The other half of the problem is that Trump's base is slacktivist: They all want to rant online, they're all available for the parties and gatherings, but very few of them are willing to help with the day-to-day gruntwork a campaign requires.
posted by ardgedee at 6:51 AM on October 22, 2016 [48 favorites]


Except McMuffin isn't "triangulating", he's running a rehash of the Romney campaign with bog standard Republican positions, specifically targeting a relatively small religious group in states that can't possibly win an election. Hard to see how that scales up into anything other than Mitt Romney in Egg's wildest dreams. And Romney lost the election.

Romney lost that election because he revealed himself to be the corporate stooge that he was and the total contempt for half of the electorate that it exposed. With a friendlier face fucking the poor under a veneer of public service or veteran status it could have quite easily gone the other way.
posted by Talez at 6:52 AM on October 22, 2016 [4 favorites]


This is only helped by the really significant lack of Clinton enthusiasm on social media

But don't people only see the social media updates from their friends and peer group anyway? I mean, my Facebook is full of super enthusiastic Clinton supporters. And I only have 1 distant relative who is a Trump supporter who rarely posts. So if I personally went by Facebook, it looks like everyone loves Clinton.

Trump supporters will likely see an overwhelming pro-Trump message on social media, but that would be true regardless of what level of Clinton support is out there.
posted by thefoxgod at 6:53 AM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


Except McMuffin isn't "triangulating", he's running a rehash of the Romney campaign with bog standard Republican positions, specifically targeting a relatively small religious group in states that can't possibly win an election. Hard to see how that scales up into anything other than Mitt Romney in Egg's wildest dreams. And Romney lost the election.

That isn't quite true, many of his stated positions are fairly to quite liberal. He, for example, had a stronger black lives matter response than Clinton, wants to end mass incarceration, he's advocating for immigrants in the US to gain citizenship, his pro-life position is about lowering abortion rates in part through helping prevent unwanted pregnancies and in general is espousing views not all that far off many moderate Dems on a range of social issues. His conservative kick, is, as you say, Romneyesque, but I'm not sure that is a killer if the other things line up well and they can be sold effectively if the Democrats aren't able to get things done on their side. He definitely ain't FDR, but he isn't Trump or GW either.
posted by gusottertrout at 6:56 AM on October 22, 2016 [23 favorites]


I'm really curious about what we can learn from this election. Specifically, does campaigning matter? Does GOTV, messaging, data, canvassing, advertising, campaign stops -- does that collective activity actually affect the outcome? We've never had a test case in which one campaign simply abdicates or grossly mishandles most of what goes into modern campaigning. Of course, that candidate is historically odd for many reasons, so we still may not know.
posted by argybarg at 6:56 AM on October 22, 2016 [12 favorites]


> If Egg, or any Republican, is going to threaten in a Presidental again, they're either going to have to change something, anything, about their message to expand the party, or turnout every white person in America. Trump is trying the later, and it's (likely) not working.

Utah this year is, in a twisted way, a recapitulation of the 1992 general election, only with a different Clinton and the wild-eyed upstart businessman is the establishment candidate and the conventional conservative option is the third-party outsider.
posted by ardgedee at 6:57 AM on October 22, 2016 [4 favorites]


This campaign is sort of a liturgist's secular dream, because Hillary's campaign is so attentive to symbolism,

Something I've loved about both the Obama and Clinton teams is the depth of their knowledge of American cultural history - if you know your civil rights history and the history of the black church in America, you can pick up on so many callbacks in Obama's speeches and imagery, things that cannot be faked or just tossed in there! Same thing with Clinton's and the women's rights movement (the white suits are the perfect example) and Kaine's and Biden's strand of American Catholicism. Not only because these four peoples' connection to these American subcultures is authentic and lifelong, but also because they clearly take care to hire people who know their stuff.

This is partly why I found that Jennifer Palmieri email about Catholics so interesting and complicated. There's been a gap widening between conservative/very strict and liberal/more relaxed Catholics in America for a long time, since Vatican II dramatically "modernized" the Church, all through the Reagan revolution and the rise of the Moral Majority. This is less a black-and-white split and more a spectrum, from Catholics who still cling to the Latin Mass all the way through "cafeteria" Catholics (choose what parts you want to practice.)

Sometimes this has resulted in whole parishes or even whole dioceses that are conservative (Arlington, where Scalia's family worships, and which was one of the last in the country to allow girls to serve at the altar), but mostly you get parishes that are mixed. And there have also been mixed messages about who is right and the right direction of the church from the top down - we went from Pope John Paul II (who built a cultural reputation as with-it and lax but was actually conservative in practice) to Benedict (very conservative) to Francis (the ultimate Jesuit). Nuns in America generally tended to be more open-minded and less conservative/strict than many bishops/parish priests (although there really are many open-minded priests out there), not to mention less tainted by the priest abuse scandal, and then Pope Benedict called for his McCarthy-esque investigation of American nuns, which disgusted a lot of the liberal/lax Catholic wing. Through it all, the liberal/lax Catholic wing has been trying to move this elephantine, ancient Church in the right direction, and every time it budges a millimeter (like the recent plans for female deacons), the conservatives throw a fit about it.

It has felt a bit like the conservative camp sees liberal Catholics watering down their faith, slowly erasing all the difficult, meaningful parts of Catholicism; and the liberal camp sees conservative Catholics not just clinging to retrograde, unnecessary parts of the Church, but also kind of cosplaying this make-believe version of Catholicism that never really existed, as if they're trying to copy the evangelicals they have political affiliations with. From a liberal perspective, Scalia's practice of Catholicism seemed not just outdated, but also inauthentic--for show, and for political convenience. Someone like Pence who actually seems to have left the Church to become an evangelical - that's just "um what??? why???" territory. (Despite Catholicism's reputation for bells and whistles and decked-out churches, liberal Catholic culture, at least in the U.S., and at least the liberal/Jesuit strand I was raised in, doesn't have the same appreciation for the show of religiosity that evangelical faiths in the U.S. do - it's read as phony and try-hard.)

So seeing people who were not raised in the Church join the Church as adults specifically to practice this conservative/strict/cosplay type of American Catholicism where they go to the Latin Mass and back Benedict-style policy and try and push back against reforms that some liberal American Catholics have been asking for and working for all their lives - that's where Palmieri's email is coming from. It's about how these politically conservative converts are borrowing the cultural capital of American Catholicism as more socially acceptable and normal, or at least closer to WASP, than sincere/wacko/lower-class evangelicalism (an acceptability owing at least in part to the liberal wing of American Catholics like the Kennedys), and using this faith they weren't raised in to help along a political conservatism disdained by a large wing of the Church in America.

Cardinal Dolan can bullshit all he wants about "oh Hillary should apologize" but he knows exactly what that email is about, because he's been taking potshots at the liberal Catholics for his entire showboating career.
posted by sallybrown at 7:00 AM on October 22, 2016 [153 favorites]


Great NYT op-ed by John Leguizamo.

I had the privilege of shooting John last year for a magazine feature about him and the release of his graphic novel Ghetto Klown and he's as awesome, cool, and nice as you'd hope for.
posted by chris24 at 7:18 AM on October 22, 2016 [13 favorites]


Trump is practically a warrior priest apparently...

The only question is his alignment: Chaotic Neutral or Chaotic Evil?
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:27 AM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


As a furriner, all I can ask is that you get out and vote.

Wait, so you want us to vote AND buy new horseshoes?
posted by ActingTheGoat at 7:32 AM on October 22, 2016 [10 favorites]


I caught sight of the "Ivanka Trump" tag in the back and put the dress back as quickly as though it had burnt my fingers

My mom called me the other day to bemoan how she'd been at the mall and seen several dresses that she really liked and wanted to try on... until she saw the Ivanka Trump label and refused.

Here are a couple pieces about boycotting Ivanka's brand: Guardian, Cosmopolitan.

I mentioned in the other thread that I was going to write a letter to Nordstrom. I did, and it was very cathartic. Recommended.
posted by lalex at 7:37 AM on October 22, 2016 [9 favorites]


Jindal does not lead by example.

I've often thought that Jindal is the most depressing prominent political actor in the US. Watching this guy who graduated from Brown and who is only a Rhodes Scholar because he decided to go to Oxford instead of taking his acceptances at Harvard Medical or Yale Law stand up and do his "something called volcano observatories" schtick, watching this transparently brilliant man pretending to be a dipshit, just stabs me right in the heart.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:42 AM on October 22, 2016 [52 favorites]


In the "so random it is funny" dept:

@ thomaskaplan Pence talks up Indiana agriculture at the @NationalFFA convention: "We're proud of the fact we're No. 1 in commercial duck production."

We're # 1! In commercial duck production Which means I guess that some other state is #1 in non-commercial duck production i.e. ducks having ducklings for no good reason other than they want to have fun.



The New Yorker Making Peace with Trump’s Revolutionaries
He felt that most of his classmates would vote for Trump, but their commitment was shallow, in his opinion. After his time in the Middle East, he had concluded that Americans don’t really understand what an uprising is. “They’re talking about a revolution,” he said, of Trump supporters. “But they’re too lazy. Americans are too lazy. They’re fine with a rally. But they’re not up for a real revolution.”[...]

Most of the time, Trump ranted about Clinton or Obama, and the crowd responded in set ways. They booed any reference to Obamacare; the e-mail scandal prompted chants of “Lock her up! Lock her up!” People seemed to enjoy venting, but these targets were distant and somewhat abstract, and I sensed that the routine would have become boring without the more immediate presence of the media[...] he made a media reference every few minutes, pausing to give the crowd time to react. Eventually, people started leaning over the barrier to shout, “Crooked press! Crooked press!,”

eventually his conspiracy theories will probably serve another purpose. In Egypt, as the revolution collapsed, and the dreams of Tahrir faded away, the talk of international plots became darker and more frequent. It was a way of coping with frustration and lack of control, but it was also a way of disengaging. As the veteran had told me on the college campus, a real revolution requires commitment—if you’re determined to overthrow Mubarak, then you have to stay on the square and fight his minions until it’s finished. But there’s no way to fight the vast international conspiracies of the Jews, the Turks, and the Americans. In the same way, when Trump talks about how the election is fixed, and how the State Department covers up scandals, and how the media spreads lies, he’s not necessarily preparing his followers for resistance or violence after November 8th. He’s showing them how to give up without giving in.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:42 AM on October 22, 2016 [65 favorites]


More Utah thinking. Courtesy of Pat Bagley. We are not dead yet, not even sleeping.
posted by Oyéah at 7:44 AM on October 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


Excellent observations, sallybrown. I'm not Catholic, but I'm Catholic-educated, living in a heavily ethnic liberal Catholic city and my husband is the classic Catholic hybrid (Italian on his dad's side, Irish on his mom's) and raised in the Church. I grew up around liberal Catholics who were mainly Catholic through an ethnic identity rather than deep religious feeling, and attended a Catholic school effectively run by liberation theologist laity. Sooo it was pretty effin' weird when we moved to rural Maryland, which also has a deep, strong Catholic identity (though Catholics are still in the minority) but the Catholics there were nearly indistinguishable from the majority evangelicals.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:45 AM on October 22, 2016 [6 favorites]


Yesterday in Utah the polls were Clinton 26%, Trump 26%, McNugget 22%
posted by Oyéah at 7:50 AM on October 22, 2016 [4 favorites]


Breitbart's headline this morning: He's with her: Inside Paul Ryan's months-long campaign to elect Hillary Clinton President.

I've been reading that Steve Bannon has decided to take Ryan out of the game. I wouldn't mind since I think Ryan is a spineless weasel who would starve his own grannie if he thought it would give him a chance at the White House but on the other hand I don't want Bannon to get too cocky either. Maybe they will butt heads hard enough to knock each other out.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:50 AM on October 22, 2016 [22 favorites]


Trump is practically a warrior priest apparently...

Isn't he more akin to Witch-king of Angmar? Leader of a band of evil soul-sucking wraiths, in thrall to a Lord from a faraway land, and seemingly invulnerable throughout the entire primary season. But soon to learn the true meaning of "not by the hand of man will he fall."
posted by xigxag at 7:53 AM on October 22, 2016 [45 favorites]


That 24% that still hearts Trump is the greatest gift to the democrats. Republicans are so stuck aren't they? They can't appeal to their deplorables without turning off their respectables and they can't appeal to the respectables without turning off the deplorables.

Win win for America I say.


I'd say no. In the long run democracy requires a competent opposition party.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 7:56 AM on October 22, 2016 [6 favorites]


Bannon's is the job to have, I guess. A great big funnel of money ends at your mouth, your lips move according to the money game plan, and then you get some of it. Then people listen to him, because like Oz, behind the green curtain, he makes the cartoon illusions the marks like to enjoy. These illusions in turn, make the marks feel good, while they empty their pockets, which fills the money funnel. Wow! It is relevant but, only like a talking vacuum cleaner would be, people love their clever appliances.
posted by Oyéah at 7:59 AM on October 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


I'd say no. In the long run democracy requires a competent opposition party.


I used to say that, and I have a personal stake in it as I'm probably the most right-leaning person on MeFi.

But...

If the opposition is just a well-organnized wing within the Democratic party, the system can still work. At least for a while. In the meantime, the current staff of K-street douchebags and spreadsheet obsessives in the GOP needs to be retired before we can have a good GOP again.
posted by ocschwar at 8:00 AM on October 22, 2016 [13 favorites]


In my misspent youth, I may have read one or two of the early books in L. Ron Hubbard's "Mission Earth". In my defense, I was not aware at the time of the clusterfuck that is Scientology, and the books were tedious enough that I soon gave up.

Every time I hear "Steve Bannon" my mind automatically replaces it with "Soltan Gris".
posted by Slothrup at 8:05 AM on October 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


Reporters grow testy on late night Trump conference call:
The reporter interjected to say, "I'm trying to figure out what's new and what we should be paying attention to."

"I don't want to say what it will be," the Trump staffer replied.

"Okay, then why are we on this call?" the reporter asked.

There was a brief pause, and the Trump staffer referred the question to another unnamed Trump aide.

That senior staffer explained that the tour kickoff tomorrow is important and newsworthy because it'll offer a "roadmap of what Mr. Trump's first 100 days in office would look like and what the key focal points would be."

The only concrete piece of new information during the nearly 30-minute call came at the very end — when Trump's team revealed Gettysburg had been chosen as the location of the tour kickoff because the candidate believes Abraham Lincoln is an important figure in GOP history.
posted by sallybrown at 8:06 AM on October 22, 2016 [27 favorites]


To be fair, Gettysburg is deep red Trump country in an extremely important swing state.

Yeah, but he's losing in Pennsylvania. And Virginia. He's wasting time in states he's going to lose.
posted by kirkaracha at 8:07 AM on October 22, 2016 [6 favorites]


transparently brilliant ... pretending

I don't know. 20 years of teaching very smart kids in the Ivy League and watching their lives unfold, as well as working around people of discretely focused intelligence (even brilliance) has me convinced it's quite possible to be dumber than a bag of hammers about things outside one's domains of mastery. Or to have one's practical moral conscience remain fenced off from scientific or liberal critique we tend to associate with elite educational institutions.

Jindal seems not just to be playacting the idiot he appears to be. I think he yearns for social acceptance his academic skills did not yield (for an immigrant Catholic kid named Piyush living in the south) and forged his persona out of a fierce desire to be popular.

Also submitted: Ben Carson

In a recent interview with Terry Gross about his new book, Bruce Springsteen quoted T-Bone Burnett as saying "half of rock and roll is guys screaming 'WAAAAAH DADDY!'" into the microphone.


Goes for Trump too.
posted by spitbull at 8:08 AM on October 22, 2016 [53 favorites]


Yeah, but he's losing in Pennsylvania. And Virginia. He's wasting time in states he's going to lose.

Exactly. Before you even get to VA you have to go through WI and MI and Trump is MIA from there the next four days. When Trump is letting Pence off the leash he's still busy defending Ohio.
posted by Talez at 8:11 AM on October 22, 2016


sallybrown, I am forever in your debt for "cosplaying Catholics".
posted by donnagirl at 8:14 AM on October 22, 2016 [18 favorites]


"Steve Bannon" would be a fine name for a superhero alter ego, and he's ruined it by being an alt-right douchebag.

"Alt-Right Douchebag" wouldn't make a worthy or compelling super villain either. Just a whiny illogical one.
posted by MoonOrb at 8:16 AM on October 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


Anyone know of any particularly edible footwear?

I know this was a long while back but it just occurred to me that "espadrilles" always sounds like it ought to be delicious.
posted by spitbull at 8:19 AM on October 22, 2016 [16 favorites]


The Red Pill -- by day he is a mild mannered alt-right rabble rouser and jerk named Steve Bannon. By night he uses his super power of "negging" the enemies of patriarchal domination, subtly attempting to make them feel so bad about themselves that they are easy prey for his slimy attentions. Cruising the badlands of post-industrial suburbia in his coal-burning Dodge truck, with trusty and feisty sidekick Kellyanne Blonde by his side to spin his stories for the mainstream media, The Red Pill roams the land seeking revenge for that time his ex-wife left him just because he hit her once.
posted by spitbull at 8:30 AM on October 22, 2016 [31 favorites]


OMG WAKE UP SHEEPLE
posted by parm at 8:34 AM on October 22, 2016 [48 favorites]


It's interesting to me as a high-church Episcopalian to hear Roman Catholic perspectives. We tend to look at the RCC as kind of the older sibling that's turned out to be not so great at adulting. Like, we remember looking up to you back in the day but wtf, get your shit together already.
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:35 AM on October 22, 2016 [10 favorites]


Still waiting for the Trump speech to start. In the mean time Pence is droning on to the Faith & Freedom Coalition.
posted by Talez at 8:39 AM on October 22, 2016


I reread this this morning, and there's never a bad time for it:
Fourscore and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent a new nation, conceived in liberty and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.

Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation or any nation so conceived and so dedicated can long endure. We are met on a great battlefield of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field as a final resting-place for those who here gave their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this.

But in a larger sense, we cannot dedicate, we cannot consecrate, we cannot hallow this ground. The brave men, living and dead who struggled here have consecrated it far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living rather to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us--that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion--that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain, that this nation under God shall have a new birth of freedom, and that government of the people, by the people, for the people shall not perish from the earth.
And from some of the sources that we think influenced Lincoln:

Pericles' Funeral Oration from Thucydides' History of the Peloponnesian War:
The sacrifice which they collectively made was individually repaid to them; for they received again each one for himself a praise which grows not old, and the noblest of all tombs, I speak not of that in which their remains are laid, but of that in which their glory survives, and is proclaimed always and on every fitting occasion both in word and deed. For the whole earth is the tomb of famous men; not only are they commemorated by columns and inscriptions in their own country, but in foreign lands there dwells also an unwritten memorial of them, graven not on stone but in the hearts of men.
Daniel Webster, "Second Reply to Hayne" (1830):
No State law is to be valid which comes in conflict with the Constitution, or any law of the United States passed in pursuance of it. But who shall decide this question of intereference? To whom lies the last appeal? This, Sir, the Constitution itself decides also, by declaring, "That the judicial power shall extend to all cases arising under the Constitution and laws of the United States." These two provisions cover the whole ground. They are, in truth, the keystone of the arch! With these it is a government; without them it is a confederation. . . . When my eyes shall be turned to behold for the last time the sun in heaven, may I not see him shining on the broken and dishonored fragments of a once glorious Union; on States dissevered, discordant, belligerent; on a land rent with civil feuds, or drenched, it may be, in fraternal blood! Let their last feeble and lingering glance rather behold the gorgeous ensign of the republic, now known and honored throughout the earth, still full high advanced, its arms and trophies streaming in their original lustre, not a stripe erased or polluted, not a single star obscured, bearing for its motto, no such miserable interrogatory as "What is all this worth?" nor those other words of delusion and folly, "Liberty first and Union afterwards"; but everywhere, spread all over in characters of living light, plazing on all it sample folds, as they float over the sea and over the land, and in every wind under the whole heavens, that other sentiment, dear to every true American heart, - Liberty and Union, now and for ever, one and inseperable!
Theodore Parker, "Discourses of Slavery" (1850):
There is what I call the American idea. I so name it, because it seems to me to lie at the basis of all our truly original, distinctive, and American institutions. It is itself a complex idea, composed of three subordinate and more simple ideas, namely: The idea that all men have unalienable rights; that in respect thereof, all men are created equal; and that government is to be established and sustained for the purpose of giving every man an opportunity for the enjoyment and development of all these unalienable rights. This idea demands, as the proximate organization thereof, a democracy, that is, a government of all the people, by all the people, for all the people; of course, a government after the principles of eternal justice, the unchanging law of God; for shortness' sake, I will call it the idea of freedom. That is one idea; and the other is, that one man has a right to hold another man in thraldom, not for the slave's good, but for the master's convenience; not on account of any wrong the slave has done or intended, but solely for the benefit of the master. This idea is not peculiarly American. For shortness' sake, I will call this the idea of slavery. It demands for its proximate organization, an aristocracy, that is, a government of all the people by a part of the people—the masters; for a part of the people—the masters; against a part of the people—the slaves; a government contrary to the principles of eternal justice, contrary to the unchanging law of God. . . . In the turmoil of party politics, and of personal controversy, let us not forget continually to move the previous question, whether freedom or slavery is to prevail in America. There is no attribute of God which is not on our side; because, in this matter, we are on the side of God.
Trump has not even begun to understand what Lincoln was saying.
posted by sallybrown at 8:43 AM on October 22, 2016 [71 favorites]


Pence has jumped on the rigged election crazy train but bathing it in reasonableness.
posted by Talez at 8:44 AM on October 22, 2016




If anyone's still reading: I Waited 96 Years (.com)

I don't usually comment on people's voting decisions, but I guess I'm just a sucker for patience and long-deferred hopes and old people.
posted by d. z. wang at 8:52 AM on October 22, 2016 [26 favorites]


Pennsylvania Republicans are suing to allow out of county poll watchers

So they want to rig the election by bussing people?
posted by Artw at 8:52 AM on October 22, 2016 [36 favorites]


Pennsylvania Republicans are suing to allow out of county poll watchers

"Your honor all we want to do is send old racists into the cities to challenge every voter and exacerbate the lines!"
posted by Talez at 8:53 AM on October 22, 2016 [43 favorites]


Yeah, but he's losing in Pennsylvania. And Virginia. He's wasting time in states he's going to lose.

At this point, his only possible path to 270 involves a good solid national swing toward him; he can fight for the marginals over the next two weeks, but even if he pushes hard in FL, NC, NH & the swing district northern ME and squeaks out victories in those places, he only gets to 267. He needs all those plus either PA, OH or both VA and WI. So he might as well go for broke in PA (though Ohio is easier for him probably) and assume he'll carry the bluish-purple states through some externally-caused swing.

This isn't the reasoning behind their strategy of course; they're convinced that the polls are skewed and that they're actually in a tight race. But a legit analysis leads to the same results.

TL;DR: The Republicans need Ohio (or PA, or VA+WI) to win the White House, so they might as well play there and hope for the best.
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:53 AM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


Pennsylvania Republicans are suing to allow out of county poll watchers

Remember shit like this in a couple weeks when Paul Ryan is holding a press conference to talk about that whole Donald Trump thing that happened, and how it had nothing to do with the core values of the Grand Old Party.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:55 AM on October 22, 2016 [65 favorites]


A high school friend just posted a picture of her grandma on Twitter, with the message "When she was born, women didn't have the right to vote. Today my 102 year old grandma cast a historic ballot."

Pretty awesome stuff.
posted by wenestvedt at 9:03 AM on October 22, 2016 [58 favorites]


I don't usually comment on people's voting decisions, but I guess I'm just a sucker for patience and long-deferred hopes and old people.

My grandmother was born in 1914; I remember her talking about taking the horse and buggy to church as a child. I wasn't quite able to convince her to vote for Obama, unfortunately (the Midwestern Republican heritage was strong in that one), but she was definitely awed by the fact that in her lifetime the country had elected a black man as President.

Grandma graduated from Western Michigan University in 1934 -- her mother had always wanted to go to college but of course wasn't able to, and was determined that her daughters would, misogyny and Great Depressions be damned. I wish she were still here to see the first woman president.
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:04 AM on October 22, 2016 [32 favorites]


Trump meeting: We're tripling down on voter fraud now.
posted by Talez at 9:11 AM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


Trump meeting: Hillary shouldn't have been allowed to run but FBI and DOJ both covered up lying to FBI and Congress.
posted by Talez at 9:12 AM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


Trump meeting: James Cartwright, a four star general, is our martyr!
posted by Talez at 9:13 AM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


Trump: Why is Hillary allowed to run? Media is a major part of this corruption.
posted by Talez at 9:13 AM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


Here I thought this was going to be a dangerous speech because Trump was sounding reasonable with his fake and/or misleading statistics about fraudulent voting, and then he leads right into his "Hillary should have been banned from running because she lied and/or broke the law," something that would only seem accurate to the lowest of low education voters. I would love to know whether he understands that even accepting every allegation he's made against Hillary wouldn't bar her from running for President under our Constitution? I think he really might not know that.
posted by sallybrown at 9:14 AM on October 22, 2016 [8 favorites]


Drew Magary is my favorite fool sportswriter. I almost understood years of my dad calling into sports talk shows when one of my letters of complaint against the Detroit Lions made it into this year's 'Why Your Team Sucks.' Given the annoyingly conservative tenor of most sportsfolk, I am so, so happy he's been a staunch, consistent opponent of Trump.

The 2016 Election Will Never End:
As much as the GOP establishment wants to treat Trump like a fart in an elevator, come November 8th they will share the exact same goal, and utilize the same truther news outlets to achieve it. It’s been discouraging to watch the GOP stymie Obama at every turn for the last eight years (with Obama, at times, being far too deferential to them), and it’s not like they’re gonna magically grow a heart once Hillary Clinton takes office. I promise you that dipshits like Mitch McConnell will declare it their mission to thwart Clinton, and then sit on their dicks for the duration of her stay in the White House.

That’s how the GOP works. They deserve to go down with Trump and yet, somehow, they’ll survive all this, without being forced to learn a thing. Even if they lose control of Congress, they’ll find a way to regenerate and then fuck everyone. Everything Trump does in practice, they do in policy. And they’ll have the support of both their donors AND the pig voters they have nurtured for years (who have been granted more anthropological empathy than virtually any other segment of society), the ones who flocked to Trump this year but will gladly stick by the Republican party because they’ve been conditioned for the past three decades to cry out "BITCH!" any time anyone says the name Hillary out loud. These people are in each other’s thrall forevermore.
If You're a Republican, You Have No Right To Bitch About America:
It’s always a mistake to attempt to psychoanalyze Trump and his supporters, given that Trump is history’s greatest imbecile, and given his campaign is little more than a 16-month outburst of childish irrationality. You can blame it on the economy, or sexism, or racism, or all three… but that undercurrent of unhappiness girds all of them. As explained by this Cracked essay that people have been passing around as if it’s good (it is not), people in rural Trump Country are tired of being sneered at. They believe they’ve been disenfranchised, spiritually if not literally. They believe no one cares about them. They believe that their voices have not been heard. “Deplorables,” etc. They are voting for Trump to give a proverbial middle finger to the establishment.

Now, here’s an unsurprising twist: These people are goddamn deluded. That anti-establishment pose that Trump is riding is the same line of bullshit that Republicans have coasted on for decades. And it’s worked. Look around you, rural America. You already live in Donald Trump’s idealized version of this country. Love guns? We have more guns than people. Hate abortion? Multiple states, probably including yours, have already made abortions illegal in most instances and virtually impossible to obtain otherwise. Want a border wall? Yup, we’ve got one of those, too (NOTE: it doesn’t work). Tired of activist justices making up laws as they go along? Well, you’re in luck! Because judicial vacancies are at an all-time high. Support the cops? We gave them TANKS. Don’t want your tax money going to imaginary lazy poor people? America’s tax rate is below average for the developed world. Want Trump to bomb the hell out of Muslims? We’re way ahead of you on that.
Inside Trump TV, The Best Network Yet:
Try not to think of Election Day as the end of Donald Trump's presidential fantasies. That's so sad! Instead, think of it as the beginning of Trump TV! It's gonna be the BEST (worst) network. Millions (hundreds) will watch it. Every cable provider (one in Montana) will carry it. Prepare your eyeballs for luxury with a sneak peek at what we assume will be the launch lineup for Trump TV.
posted by palindromic at 9:14 AM on October 22, 2016 [78 favorites]


Trump: The media never try to show or mention our large crowd size. In fact, they talk about Hillary's crowd size which is very small.

Three national polls put us in front. Most accurate polls in 2012. Media refuses to talk about it.

AT&T buying TWC is a big no-no for Trump.
posted by Talez at 9:15 AM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


Trump is speaking in Gettysburg right now and is in full teleprompter mode with his serious quiet voice on. He's still saying that the election is rigged and the FBI and justice department covered up Hillary's crimes. Also, "every woman lied when they came forward to hurt my campaign. Total fabrication. "
posted by Sophie1 at 9:15 AM on October 22, 2016


Trump: Washington Post owner Amazon should be paying massive taxes but is not paying. Comcast purchase of NBC concentrates too much power in one massive entity. Trump wants to break them up. They're trying to poison the mind of the American voter.

What the fuck is going on?
posted by Talez at 9:16 AM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


All right, he's scaring me again. Because this whole "the media is lying, the women are lying, they're all lying to you because I would break up the AT&T deal and the comcast deal" and "i'll break up all the power at the top and fix everything" is just some straight up Hitler shit.

But it's Hitler setting up for failure after the election, like if he'd been able to plan for the failure of the Beer Hall Putsch.

"Look at what they've done to you."
posted by schadenfrau at 9:16 AM on October 22, 2016 [17 favorites]


Trump is going to sue all of his accusers after the election is over.
posted by Talez at 9:17 AM on October 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


He says he's going to sue all of the women who made accusations. And he's tying it to the media. If they can do that to me, they can do this to you. Your jobs, your lives, your children.
posted by Sophie1 at 9:17 AM on October 22, 2016 [4 favorites]


This was supposed to be first hundred days. Media must be pissed right now that they're being taken for a ride again.
posted by Talez at 9:18 AM on October 22, 2016 [11 favorites]


Read that as "Trump is going to sue the electors after the election is over." Still believable.
posted by Archelaus at 9:18 AM on October 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


It's expanded to "everything is rigged, the entire system is rigged."

Like, poisoning political institutions isn't cool. You know what's cool? Poisoning the social contract at the root.
posted by schadenfrau at 9:18 AM on October 22, 2016 [8 favorites]


Trump: Washington Post owner Amazon should be paying massive taxes but is not paying. Comcast purchase of NBC concentrates too much power in one massive entity. Trump wants to break them up. They're trying to poison the mind of the American voter.

What the fuck is going on?


"I will use our civil servants in the Antitrust Division to exact personal revenge on the media, I promise you that!"
posted by sallybrown at 9:19 AM on October 22, 2016 [19 favorites]


This was supposed to be first hundred days. Media must be pissed right now that they're being taken for a ride again.

Any media entity foolish enough to believe Trump wasn't going to pull something like this only has themself to blame. He does this *every time*.
posted by Proofs and Refutations at 9:20 AM on October 22, 2016 [32 favorites]


This was supposed to be first hundred days.

This is the first hundred days and all the days after.
posted by kingless at 9:21 AM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


Trump just suckered cable news into giving wall to wall coverage of his latest stump speech.
posted by Talez at 9:21 AM on October 22, 2016 [6 favorites]


Can yall do longer digests so it's not just his speech line by line by line?
posted by cashman at 9:21 AM on October 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


Trump has not even begun to understand what Lincoln was saying.

I can't get past that line from the Second Inaugural:
Yet, if God wills that it continue until all the wealth piled by the bondsman's two hundred and fifty years of unrequited toil shall be sunk, and until every drop of blood drawn with the lash shall be paid by another drawn with the sword, as was said three thousand years ago, so still it must be said "the judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether."
Paraphrased: "If the Civil War continues until every dollar of capital that originated in the stolen labor of black bodies is destroyed -- that's fair."

Can you imagine the hurricane of a shitstorm that would ensue on Morning Joe et al. if Obama said that? It's basically Wright's "God damn America" (and he was right to say that, and it was shitty of Obama to throw him under the bus although I understand why he had to do it).

Party of Lincoln my ass. None of those people have even begun to understand what he was saying. And he was a moderate liberal for his time, frequently dealing with opposition from the radical wing of his own party.

We've come such a long way since then in practical terms, to be sure; but in some disturbing ways, our political discourse is not even as progressive.
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:22 AM on October 22, 2016 [71 favorites]


Programming notes - Joy Reid will be hosting MSNBC today from 5:00pm-7:00pm.

Also, tomorrow 60 minutes is finally doing an election-related story. It's on the election, and Ohio.
posted by cashman at 9:23 AM on October 22, 2016


The "she shouldn't have been allowed to run" bit has been in heavy rotation, I think because this will remain his crazypants justification that the election was "rigged" regardless of what happens at the polls, at all.
posted by thelonius at 9:23 AM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


This list of idiotic Trumpmas gifts is going alientate anyone who knows the barest amount about how our government works. It's impossible to achieve a constitutional amendment in a single day, to start with. This is on the level of suggestions for government change that a second-grader might propose. "Erase that law and put another one!"
posted by sallybrown at 9:25 AM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


tomorrow 60 minutes is finally doing an election-related story. It's on the election, and Ohio.

Trump voters: what do they really want?
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:26 AM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


His 100 day action plan is what we all knew before.

This is a slightly less digressive and distracted stump speech.
posted by Talez at 9:26 AM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]



So he suckered the media into paying close attention to him telling the media that he's going to destroy them and make them pay.

Yeah that will get them to be sympathetic Donald!
posted by Jalliah at 9:27 AM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


New York Daily News has a 14-part editorial: Bury Trump in a Landslide. This is a paper that endorsed George W. Bush in 2004.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 9:27 AM on October 22, 2016 [31 favorites]


He seems paled and defeated, but quiet Trump sometimes scares me more.
posted by bluecore at 9:30 AM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


but quiet Trump sometimes scares me more

Because it covers the lunacy in a thin veneer of respectability.
posted by Talez at 9:32 AM on October 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


Talez: Trump is going to sue all of his accusers after the election is over.

Trump is destroying his future for after he loses the election. Promises like that give his enemies specific reason to work to destroy him after the election is over. If he just conceded and shut up, he could be left alone. However, if he's going to do damage all over - undermining our democracy, attempting to harm the women he's abused - he gives the government a legitimate reason to shut him down.

And it's not like he's invulnerable; all of this election has shown that it would not be really difficult to find totally legitimate charges to arrest him on (charity misconduct, tax evasion, sexual assault, possibly actual espionage if he's personally working with Russia...)

If he keeps making threats like this, look for charges to be laid within a month or two of the end of the election, with more and more piled on from all directions until he's ruined and powerless and possibly in prison.
posted by Mitrovarr at 9:32 AM on October 22, 2016 [15 favorites]


Neither MSNBC or CNN is cutting their coverage. They're just letting Trump get away with this. I'm not sure why they didn't just pull the pool coverage the second they were being led on.
posted by Talez at 9:34 AM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


Trump is going to sue all of his accusers after the election is over.

Guaranteed to help his polling with women. And CNN just sent out a breaking news push notice about it. Well done.
posted by chris24 at 9:38 AM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


but quiet Trump sometimes scares me more

It reminds me so much of my abusive father. When he was really, really angry, his voice would get very quiet and growly. Terrifying. Everything about Trump is the textbook of malignant narcissism.
posted by Sophie1 at 9:38 AM on October 22, 2016 [43 favorites]


Who will be Trump's enemies when this is all over? Like, serious "i will destroy you and salt the earth" enemies? And who will just keep on humoring him so as not to anger his fans.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:39 AM on October 22, 2016



And I expect Gloria Allred is smiling and motioning 'bring it bucko'
posted by Jalliah at 9:40 AM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


> Can we find a way to also give her an Emmy?

Yeah, and she already has a Grammy... Hillary for EGOTP! (PEGOT? no. EGOTUS! That's it.)
posted by kleinsteradikaleminderheit at 9:41 AM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


Trump wants two years in prison for attempting illegal reentry, five years if you're a previous felon. Holy shit.
posted by Talez at 9:42 AM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


@KevinMKruse: Right off the bat, Trump refers to Gettysburg as "hollowed ground." Perfect.
posted by chris24 at 9:43 AM on October 22, 2016 [43 favorites]


Neither MSNBC or CNN is cutting their coverage. They're just letting Trump get away with this. I'm not sure why they didn't just pull the pool coverage the second they were being led on.

I wish they would throw this stuff up on the green screen, turn down the lights, sit with their backs to the camera watching the rally/conference/rant whatever and just give live MST3K-style color commentary.
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:44 AM on October 22, 2016 [13 favorites]


Would a sitting President even be able to sue as a private citizen? Or are these more actions that he would appoint special prosecutors for?
posted by zombieflanders at 9:46 AM on October 22, 2016


I think exacting revenge would be Trump's top priority in or out of office. He sounds like he would try to purge the government and attempt some sort of restructuring. I believe he will take action on the mass deportations, mass incarcerations, extreme vetting, religious persecution, use of violence as a means at home and abroad, build the stupid wall. I don't believe for one second he will enact any kind of economic reforms.

All his fear mongering and rhetoric on security, law and order, endorsement of violence and incarceration coupled with his dismissal of the democratic process is truly terrifying. Its like he's a mish-mash of every Marvel comic villain. How can people be so stupid not to vote against this guy?
posted by angrybear at 9:47 AM on October 22, 2016 [16 favorites]


Did anyone else catch this - Trump says the U.S. will pay for "the wall" and Mexico will reimburse us. This =/= "Mexico will pay for the wall." That's new...not that that wasn't his plan all along (to the extent he has any plan at all), but that he's presenting it to his crowd this way.
posted by sallybrown at 9:47 AM on October 22, 2016 [9 favorites]


OK that was fucking weird. He talked about cyber attacks. He started his topic sentence and mid-paragraph, immediately pivoted to immigration, then went back to ethics before MAGA.

The fuck was that?
posted by Talez at 9:47 AM on October 22, 2016


Neither MSNBC or CNN is cutting their coverage. They're just letting Trump get away with this. I'm not sure why they didn't just pull the pool coverage the second they were being led on.

No, we need footage of this as an example of how unhinged he's become to tie to people like Ryan for the rest of their lives, if not for suits and counter-suits against him after the election.
posted by zombieflanders at 9:48 AM on October 22, 2016 [12 favorites]


If he keeps making threats like this, look for charges to be laid within a month or two of the end of the election, with more and more piled on from all directions until he's ruined and powerless and possibly in prison

This should happen even if he did somehow stop the temper tantrum. He's a habitually exploitive cheater, and there's good evidence that he's broken several laws in several jurisdictions. I hope the NY and CA AGs don't give a flying fuck about whether he starts to play nice or not.

And cmon. He's not capable of backing off.
posted by schadenfrau at 9:48 AM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


@KevinMKruse: Trump's closing argument: He'll use the presidency's powers to settle grudges vs Clinton, media & women who accused him of sexual assault.
posted by chris24 at 9:50 AM on October 22, 2016 [38 favorites]


If he keeps making threats like this, look for charges to be laid within a month or two of the end of the election, with more and more piled on from all directions until he's ruined and powerless and possibly in prison.

In my happy place world, Eric Schneiderman creates a special division of the NY AG's office dedicated specifically to pursue Trumpian crimes. Law & Order: Special Donald Unit.

I know, I know, it's kind of a persecution fantasy and I should feel bad about it. Still it is quite a cathartic daydream.
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:50 AM on October 22, 2016 [30 favorites]


No, really it's a nice balance to my suspicion that nothing will happen or he'll actually be rewarded for this shit.
posted by Artw at 9:52 AM on October 22, 2016 [9 favorites]


Trump says the U.S. will pay for "the wall" and Mexico will reimburse us.

Applying the Razor: Someone on FNC used the word 'reimburse' and Trump thought it sounded smart.
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:53 AM on October 22, 2016 [11 favorites]


Trump says the U.S. will pay for "the wall" and Mexico will reimburse us. This =/= "Mexico will pay for the wall." That's new

That isn't really new, but it was probably lost in the miasma of his previous bubbleguts. He mentioned once that one way he would try to get the money back for the wall would be to seize or tax or something, the money some immigrants send to family members out of the country. I think he also mentioned tariffs or some other after-the-fact way of getting the money.
posted by cashman at 9:53 AM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


So the lede on this speech will be him suing the women, which just continues and expands the coverage of this terrible topic for him. Genius.
posted by chris24 at 9:54 AM on October 22, 2016 [10 favorites]


No, really it's a nice balance to my suspicion that nothing will happen or he'll actually be rewarded for this shit.

Yeah, I guess in my real happy place world, white collar crimes are treated as the crimes of systemic exploitation that they are.
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:55 AM on October 22, 2016 [6 favorites]


expands the coverage of this terrible topic for him. Genius.

Oh, but he needs to reassure his people that he's tough, no?
posted by Namlit at 9:56 AM on October 22, 2016


> "Neither MSNBC or CNN is cutting their coverage. They're just letting Trump get away with this. I'm not sure why they didn't just pull the pool coverage the second they were being led on."

Why were they covering it this way in the first place? Clinton doesn't get this kind of coverage when she announces a policy speech.
posted by kyrademon at 9:56 AM on October 22, 2016 [13 favorites]


Clinton doesn't get this kind of coverage when she announces a policy speech.

rigged!!!
posted by Namlit at 9:57 AM on October 22, 2016 [6 favorites]


@KatyTurNBC: Dear American voters,
In my first 100 days I will bring lawsuits against those who have criticized me.
Best,
Donald J Trump
posted by chris24 at 9:58 AM on October 22, 2016 [50 favorites]


One last nod to the good old days of Trumpmania, I guess.
posted by Artw at 9:59 AM on October 22, 2016


Clinton doesn't get this kind of coverage when she announces a policy speech.

To be fair, "Trump gives policy speech" is kind of a man-bites-dog story, while "Clinton gives policy speech" is up there with "This is a day ending in 'y'" on the newsworthiness scale.
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:01 AM on October 22, 2016 [14 favorites]


> "Trump is going to sue all of his accusers after the election is over."

And yet his surrogates are still going to be all over TV asking, "But why didn't they come forward sooner?", as if there were some pile of sweet sweet sexual assault dollars just sitting there ready for the taking instead of this depressingly predictable result.
posted by kyrademon at 10:05 AM on October 22, 2016 [56 favorites]


With that in mind I've never connected Trump to Nixon. Only to McCarthy. His power was gained by a traditional political process and structure that, at it's worse, condones obsufcation for political gain and survival. Both played zero-sum games and both, to me, seem to have had/have a weird-ass death wish. Nixon, on the other hand was a junkyard dog. He had the presence to rebuild his ground game after his loss for CA Governorship in 1962. Many political historian still consider this one of the great political comebacks.

I'm connecting the all-out nastiness of the current election cycle to how Watergate led to the disillusionment in American political culture, but I guess the latter is an oversimplification because the antiwar and Civil Rights movements, the assassination of JFK, and the general turmoil of the '60s were all important, Nixon and Watergate was just a nadir for the American public's trust in its government institutions. Perhaps we'll look back at Trump as an exclamation mark on everything that had led to this point- the Tea Party, the factions that empowered the Bush administration, the anti-gov't movements during Bill Clinton's administration, and the reign of Reagan.
posted by Apocryphon at 10:05 AM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


I'll happily donate to a legal fund for trump's accusers. Hopefully as they're suing him for defamation, though. As a side effect, there would also be the discovery process and wall-to-wall media coverage reminding America that this was the GOP presidential candidate.
posted by codacorolla at 10:11 AM on October 22, 2016 [14 favorites]


@justinjm1: By calling accusers liars in public, Trump opens himself to defamation lawsuits where his words ("grab them by the pussy") would be evidence

@RadioFreeTom: Trump just said he's going to sue all his accusers as liars.
Here's an idea: they should now sue him *first*, right *now*, for defamation.
posted by chris24 at 10:13 AM on October 22, 2016 [68 favorites]


He ain't suing shit because he's terrified of discovery.
posted by Burhanistan at 10:16 AM on October 22, 2016 [58 favorites]


Wouldn't a whole lot of other video tape currently protected by NDAs also be discoverable?

On preview, what Burhanistan said.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 10:18 AM on October 22, 2016 [4 favorites]


This is partly why I found that Jennifer Palmieri email about Catholics so interesting and complicated. There's been a gap widening between conservative/very strict and liberal/more relaxed Catholics in America for a long time, since Vatican II dramatically "modernized" the Church, all through the Reagan revolution and the rise of the Moral Majority. This is less a black-and-white split and more a spectrum, from Catholics who still cling to the Latin Mass all the way through "cafeteria" Catholics (choose what parts you want to practice.)

I grew up in the Chicago suburbs, which are heavily Catholic (if everyone didn't already know that). I was actually taken aback when I went to college (in California, which is not exactly lacking in Catholics) and really exposed to American anti-Catholicism for the first time. I don't doubt there are people in Chicago who think Catholics aren't "real" Christians, but they don't go about telling you to your face. Over time, I've become increasingly convinced that American culture as whole has no idea about pretty much anything to do with Catholicism. (Sometimes, when people ask about my politics, I'm tempted to say "my dad's a Catholic from Chicago, how do you think I vote?" I wonder how long it would take until someone took that to mean I was a Republican.)
posted by hoyland at 10:19 AM on October 22, 2016 [7 favorites]


Right off the bat, Trump refers to Gettysburg as "hollowed ground."

It's the hole where the two Corinthians are buried bigly thanks to the start-up treaty with Russia.
posted by spitbull at 10:19 AM on October 22, 2016 [9 favorites]


He ain't suing shit because he's terrified of discovery.

The great thing now is that having called them liars while threatening them, a lawsuit is no longer only his call. Paging Gloria Allred.
posted by chris24 at 10:19 AM on October 22, 2016 [23 favorites]


until he's ruined and powerless and possibly in prison.

It will probably be a private and luxurious asylum. His "cell" will be a room full of mirrors. He'll think he's died and gone to heaven.
posted by philip-random at 10:19 AM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


It will probably be a private and luxurious asylum. His "cell" will be a room full of mirrors. He'll think he's died and gone to heaven.

Gilt-y as charged?

*taps mic*

"Is this thing on?"
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 10:22 AM on October 22, 2016 [12 favorites]


To be fair, "Trump gives policy speech" is kind of a man-bites-dog story, while "Clinton gives policy speech" is up there with "This is a day ending in 'y'" on the newsworthiness scale.

So the Clinton campaign needs to announce a speech where she'll threaten unholy vengeance against all who've wronged her. Then, once the cameras are rolling, she spends 90 minutes discussing specific legislative changes to the Affordable Care Act.
posted by PlusDistance at 10:26 AM on October 22, 2016 [162 favorites]


"{Republicans] now feel like outsiders in a country they once felt like home," Bill Clinton said, noting that those feelings were once shared with "gays immigrants, African-Americans, women, people with disabilities" and added we need to find a way to bring them back in and raise everyone back up (Bill Clinton in his Broadway for Hillary speech). I'm trying to keep that in mind. Also trying to go high, when they go low.
posted by beaning at 10:28 AM on October 22, 2016 [8 favorites]


@ddale8
Trump: "Who's gonna pay for the wall?"
Crowd: "Mexicooo at some point after we fully fund it ourselves."
posted by chris24 at 10:28 AM on October 22, 2016 [15 favorites]


It will probably be a private and luxurious asylum. His "cell" will be a room full of mirrors. He'll think he's died and gone to heaven.

Then on day 2 he'll start an argument with that asshole in the next room and the screaming will last into eternity.
posted by PlusDistance at 10:29 AM on October 22, 2016 [14 favorites]


Right off the bat, Trump refers to Gettysburg as "hollowed ground."

Please, everyone, for the love of all that is unholy, remember this before going around saying "Happy Holloween."

/pet peeve
posted by Sys Rq at 10:29 AM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


The other half of the problem is that Trump's base is slacktivist: They all want to rant online, they're all available for the parties and gatherings, but very few of them are willing to help with the day-to-day gruntwork a campaign requires.

That's because turning out the grunt work requires a talented, inspiring, engaged leader. Consistently successful managers know. That's what i meant earlier; one of the most telling things about his ability to lead a large organization like the whole fucking country is his inability to get the right people on his side as his top managers. Or ignorance that he should be doing that. You can't even run a competent campaign organization, Trump, you want us to give you the country? It's not (just) the crazy/absent policy, it's about your complete ineffectiveness and incompetence as a leader.
posted by ctmf at 10:30 AM on October 22, 2016 [25 favorites]




Well, hollowed ground is likely nicely aerated and would make for lush fairways.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 10:36 AM on October 22, 2016 [7 favorites]


And yet Trump campaigns against him as much as Clinton.

@Nate_Cohn
Obama's approval rating hits 57% in the Gallup tracker--the highest figure since late Dec. 2012.
posted by chris24 at 10:36 AM on October 22, 2016 [11 favorites]


The witch hunt against - mostly female and POC - journalists who were on a conference call with the Clinton call reminds me why I think The Intercept is about as useless and self-important as Wikileaks.
posted by asteria at 10:41 AM on October 22, 2016 [14 favorites]


He ain't suing shit because he's terrified of discovery.
posted by Burhanistan at 10:16 AM on October 22


Fascinatingly, this is both false and true. Trump has taken himself hostage.

"Everybody better call these women liars, or the Cheeto gets it!"

"You'd better do what he says- this guy's seriously crazy!"

*crowd cheers*
posted by petebest at 10:42 AM on October 22, 2016 [4 favorites]


I had to look up the crazification factor.

I'd forgotten that we have Seven of Nine's divorce to thank for ensuring Obama's ascendancy.
posted by Yowser at 10:44 AM on October 22, 2016 [26 favorites]


@KevinMKruse: Trump's closing argument: He'll use the presidency's powers to settle grudges vs Clinton, media & women who accused him of sexual assault.

So that's his big 'first 100 days' plan?
posted by mazola at 10:51 AM on October 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


How's that lawsuit against the New York Times coming along, Mr. Trump?
posted by kyrademon at 10:53 AM on October 22, 2016 [10 favorites]


Trump vows to sue assault accusers in speech outlining 1st 100 days

Capital editing from tronc which notes in the story that the speech had nothing to do with Dohnald's imagined first 100 days. The threat "overshadowed his intended focus", per tronc. I can think of at least three things wrong with that 'report'.

tronc.
posted by petebest at 10:54 AM on October 22, 2016 [13 favorites]


How did I manage to hit my article limit for the Chicago Tribune?
posted by Yowser at 10:58 AM on October 22, 2016


tronc.

Chonk.
posted by Diablevert at 10:59 AM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


The world will little note, nor long remember what he says here.
posted by kyrademon at 11:03 AM on October 22, 2016 [48 favorites]


How did I manage to hit my article limit for the Chicago Tribune?

You didn't go "Incognito" (Chrome) or "New Private Window" (Firefox)?
posted by Mister Bijou at 11:04 AM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


I just sent out a tweet criticizing Dernald Trump. I'll let you all know how it goes.
posted by DanSachs at 11:04 AM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


17
posted by petebest at 11:05 AM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]



I just realized that beyond all of reasons that Trump is horrible person and unfit in so many ways I really don't like him because he and his campaign is just so bad at politics.
It's just pathetic and should be embarassing how bad they are at it. It's good and great he's bad of course but boy is it just annoying to watch.

They wanted this speech to be 100 days, policy and whatnot, show that side of him and his campaign. So what does he do? Starts with suing everyone and focusing on his revenge crap. And now that is what is dominating the headlines. Are you guys that clueless? Still? You haven't figured out how it works yet? No, now you're just going to belly ache and whine more about the press focusing on this part of your speech.

YOU ARE SO BAD AT THIS
posted by Jalliah at 11:06 AM on October 22, 2016 [64 favorites]


The world will little note, nor long remember what he says here.

This is probably true. But it's the sediment he's been dredging up as he's flailed around while drowning that will pollute the political water for a long time. Sarah Posner, in a series of tweets about the response to her Rolling Stone piece, "Meet the Alt-Right 'Spokesman' Who's Thrilled With Trump's Rise," says this:

There's a lot of denial in my mentions today, after my piece yesterday @RollingStone that the alt right is a movement that will have any continuing resonance or influence if Trump loses. This would be a major error on the part of liberals to assume a movement's demise because of the loss of its favored presidential candidate. Movements are more intensely felt and resilient than one presidential campaign (even one that is so clearly driven by a movement that was, for many Americans, invisible before Trump.) For example, how many times was the premature obituary of the religious right written?
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 11:06 AM on October 22, 2016 [8 favorites]


Oh and you wanted to create this modern Gettysburg address moment. Yeah yeah we get that.
So now you got Gettysburg Address 2016, a great speech of the modern era! "Sue and destroy all the lyin' media and wimmons!!!"

YOU ARE SO BAD AT THIS
posted by Jalliah at 11:09 AM on October 22, 2016 [28 favorites]


I'm pretty sure Mr. Trump's plan to have Mexico pay for the wall is to have the illegal Mexicans build it on their way out of the country. I see no reason slavery is incompatible with his personal views. (Might even be legal if he can get them sentenced to it.)
posted by bigbigdog at 11:10 AM on October 22, 2016 [4 favorites]


Its like he's a mish-mash of every Marvel comic villain. How can people be so stupid not to vote against this guy?

Y'know what?
Doom is a competent leader of a nation with universal health care, one of the highest literacy rates in the world, and basically no crime.
Mystique successfully negotiated her team's way from criminal activity--to the point where they literally had the word "Evil" in their name--and into government service.
Wilson Fisk is a genuinely successful business entrepreneur. How many civil suits has he lost? Same goes for Norman Osborn, while we're at it.
Kang has successfully conquered many, many different eras of history.
Even MODOK has shown incredible administrative chops just by holding AIM together, especially in light of his handicaps. I mean I don't want to sound calloused toward the disabled, but look at that dude. Seriously. And yet he's got followers and actionable plans.
And Magneto made some valid points.

I'm really, really sick of seeing people insult comic book villains by comparing them to Donald Trump. That's just not fair.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 11:11 AM on October 22, 2016 [125 favorites]


Are you guys that clueless?

Yes.

Still?

Still!

You haven't figured out how it works yet?

How what works? And, no.

No, now you're just going to belly ache and whine more about the press focusing on this part of your speech.

Oh bullshit this is the media feeding you lies this is all rigged and she belongs in jail.
posted by MoonOrb at 11:12 AM on October 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


YOU ARE SO BAD AT THIS

The (relatively) sane part of campaign team (Jim Murphy, Kellyanne Conway) has lost complete control of the situation. Trump and Bannon are 100% in the driver's seat egged on by Rudy and it shows. All Kellyanne can do at this point is walk into a cable news station, pretend the egregious parts of Trump's performances never happened and spin the hell out of any positive thing she can take from the "performance" that Trump gives. If an anchor decides to ask about the stuff she wants to pretend doesn't exist she just deflects back to a Hillary failing. Almost no anchors actually call her on it. When one actually does call her on it she says she wants to "talk about the issues" and starts spinning the positives again.

It's pretty much her only MO now.
posted by Talez at 11:14 AM on October 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


Four score and seven women have accused me of harassment and groping, despite the fact that no one has more respect for women, and I am dedicated to the proposition that all white men are created equal and white women are a close second. Especially 9s and 10s, if ya know what I mean.

Now we are engaged in a great uncivil election, testing whether our nation, or any nation so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure the constant blathering of a narcissistic moron.

And also they're all lying.

posted by spitbull at 11:17 AM on October 22, 2016 [36 favorites]


Donald Trump has managed not to threaten to sue a journalist or critic in the last:
0 days
2 hours
2 minutes
18 seconds
posted by petebest at 11:17 AM on October 22, 2016 [33 favorites]


It always amazes me how bad American news interviewers are.

American cable channels should bring in a UK interviewer the next time Conway is on.

There would be nothing left but a pile of ash, which would promptly be swallowed by a vaguely glowing hole in the ground.
posted by Yowser at 11:17 AM on October 22, 2016 [53 favorites]


The (relatively) sane part of campaign team (Jim Murphy, Kellyanne Conway)

Jim Murphy, head of GOTV, left the campaign Thursday.

Conway has been tweeting like a hostage blinking SOS in a video statement.
posted by chris24 at 11:21 AM on October 22, 2016 [26 favorites]



@KellyannePolls

In first 100 days as President, Trump says he will start job creation, tax reduction, school choice, secure borders, better healthcare plan

Huh. Missed that SOMEHOW.
posted by petebest at 11:21 AM on October 22, 2016 [12 favorites]


> To be fair, "Trump gives policy speech" is kind of a man-bites-dog story, while "Clinton gives policy speech" is up there with "This is a day ending in 'y'" on the newsworthiness scale.

To be fair to whom though? That's only "fair" to a media model in which ratings are the safe-haven currency. But that media model is deeply "unfair" to our society, assuming one accepts the principle that a well-informed public is essential to the health of a democracy.

Among my wildest hopes that nevertheless reside within sight of the bounds of the possible, I dream that the backlash from the Trump effect brings about such an electoral landslide that it ushers in a Democratic majority in both houses of Congress, AND that the scars and recent memories from the utter, unmitigated river of media catastrophuckery that we've all been awash in throughout this election cycle might, might, might together be enough of a kick in the teeth to spur a sustained fear of the possibility of the failure of the Grand Experiment.

In such an apprehensive political environment, the Democratic congress produces a legitimate and improved successor to the Fairness Doctrine, which would formally establish that the quality of information that the public receives regarding matters of state, being critical to the functioning of our society, is subject to regulation, in very much the same way that public utilities are regulated. The architecture of information delivery systems would thereby be deemed critical infrastructure, and the content of the information they deliver would be monitored for quality.

Heightened regulations would kick in on a given information source when independent data collection & analysis demonstrates that a benchmark percentage of the public or raw number of citizens is receiving information from an unregulated source.

The media could continue to operate as private enterprises when they are not conducting state business. Crackpots would continue to fret about the informational equivalent of fluoride in their drinking water, and dig wells next to septic tanks to consume within their families. But they would be fined out of existence if they tried to poison the public.

Media, being required to cover matters of state responsibly or pay dearly for their failure to do so, would generate models for interviewing and conducting panel discussions that would prevent bad-faith actors from speaking on matters of state, since a pattern of this would trigger legal interventions. The KellyAnne Conways and Katy Piersons of the political universe would be stopped before they could build up heads of steam, and required to produce evidence for their claims, or have their mics cut and/or not be asked back. They certainly would not be paid by the networks to poison the wells.

And then, in my last thought before turning back to see that I've strayed far beyond sight of the realm of the possible, I dream that the regulations would also apply to elected representatives, who, having an even higher duty to the public, would be personally subject to fines for outright deceiving the public about the content of specific legal documents.
posted by perspicio at 11:23 AM on October 22, 2016 [7 favorites]


YOU ARE SO BAD AT THIS
It's pretty much her only MO now.

Kurtz: Did they say why, Willard, why they want to terminate my command?
Willard: I was sent on a classified mission, sir.
Kurtz: It's no longer classified, is it? Did they tell you?
Willard: They told me that you had gone totally insane, and that your methods were unsound.
Kurtz: Are my methods unsound?
Willard: I don't see any method at all, sir.
posted by valkane at 11:24 AM on October 22, 2016 [13 favorites]




Yes it has gotten worse. Even when Conway seemed that she had more control it was still bad, or at least bad if the goal was getting enough people to elect him. I guess it just really comes down to Trumps ego. His ego wants to win but he is totally unable to separate his ego from the big picture to allow himself to have an actual chance at winning. It's been going on for months but I still find it astounding to watch it play out.

posted by Jalliah at 11:26 AM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


Donald likes to threaten lawsuits, but I see he still hasn't filed his suit against the Times.

It's like threatening to go and tell mom because he isn't getting his way. Trump's Razor totally applies here. Their big media event is a last-minute, cobbled-together example of what they've been doing since he started losing bigly in the debates.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 11:27 AM on October 22, 2016


Do you figure Conway has signed an NDA as part of being on his campaign, or should we expect sexual harassment allegations from her, too, to appear as part of a tell-all post-campaign book?
posted by MoonOrb at 11:28 AM on October 22, 2016


He says he's going to sue all of the women who made accusations. And he's tying it to the media. If they can do that to me, they can do this to you. Your jobs, your lives, your children.

This brings to mind the MRA obsession with the idea that every woman is just looking for a man to falsely accuse of rape in order to destroy for, uh, reasons.
posted by Pope Guilty at 11:28 AM on October 22, 2016 [21 favorites]


So, Trump was not only a protege of Roy Cohn's, but from that article ian1977 linked above, he was also a longtime disciple of Norman Vincent Peale's? Truly a perfect shitstorm of mid-century Americana. He's like a character out of collaborative novel by Ira Levin and James Ellroy.
posted by nikitabot at 11:28 AM on October 22, 2016 [16 favorites]


It always amazes me how bad American news interviewers are.

Gawd, yes. They all need to see Jeremy Paxman at work: Why Jeremy Paxman IS God
posted by Mister Bijou at 11:33 AM on October 22, 2016 [13 favorites]


He's like a character out of collaborative novel by Ira Levin and James Ellroy.

I'd throw a little Philip Roth in there, too. Memo to Kellyanne Conway: The Plot Against America is not a how-to manual.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 11:33 AM on October 22, 2016 [6 favorites]


It always amazes me how bad American news interviewers are.

Piers Morgan has been quiet lately.
posted by Artw at 11:33 AM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


Trump’s blunders are giving Republicans a roadmap to the White House in 2020
We have learned, to great horror, that O’Brien’s “Trump virus” flourishes in our body politic more than we care to imagine. Having self-immolated at a third debate, Trump seems likely to lose the race, but about 40% of the country will still vote for him on Election Day. Celebrate that if you choose, but consider this: his showing has already made presidential wannabes think through what kind of Trumpist Republican might drive that number to 51% in a future election... “Real worry is that [Trump’s] banner will be picked up by someone much smarter and more self-disciplined next time,” Fukuyama tweeted after the debate...

A cliche, but true: you learn more from defeat than victory. Trump having made every possible wrong step in the general, they know what not to do. The nomination process clued Republicans in on what their base really wants to hear. And the bar has been set distressingly low for a future Republican nominee’s affect and style. If you avoid grievous insults to Hispanics, African-Americans, Muslims, Gold Star families, don’t brag about pawing genitals, and don’t question the legitimacy of elections—honestly, Donald—you’ve come out ahead.
posted by kliuless at 11:34 AM on October 22, 2016 [9 favorites]


It always amazes me how bad American news interviewers are.

American cable channels should bring in a UK interviewer the next time Conway is on.

There would be nothing left but a pile of ash, which would promptly be swallowed by a vaguely glowing hole in the ground.


You're not wrong, of course, but more than a few American news anchors could do the same thing. They don't, however, because they're afraid she'll stop coming on their shows. They're afraid of losing "access." And it's a stupid fear, because if Conway (or other surrogates) stopped coming on the shows, they would lose a vital outlet for their message, so really the news networks are willingly letting the power dynamic in their relationship get reversed because they're afraid they'll fall behind the competition...except it's a competition for providing non-news and toothless interviews.

The whole thing is fucking infuriating.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 11:35 AM on October 22, 2016 [30 favorites]






You're not wrong, of course, but more than a few American news anchors could do the same thing. They don't, however, because they're afraid she'll stop coming on their shows. They're afraid of losing "access." And it's a stupid fear, because if Conway (or other surrogates) stopped coming on the shows, they would lose a vital outlet for their message, so really the news networks are willingly letting the power dynamic in their relationship get reversed because they're afraid they'll fall behind the competition...except it's a competition for providing non-news and toothless interviews.

I guess I don't understand why that applies more in the US than in other places though. I've also noticed that American news interviewers lack teeth, but surely people in other parts of the world can hand out the same threats of loss of access to interviewers? Why should it matter more in America? I would have thought networks here were more powerful and more capable of withstanding such threats.
posted by peacheater at 11:38 AM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


If you were worried about what Wikileaks still might have to get Clinton with, I think this tweet basically tells us they got nothing. So please send something. Quickly.

@wikileaks: Leak early, leak often: If WikiLeaks had obtained Clinton emails earlier, US voters could have chosen Sanders v Trump. So do it. Do it now.
posted by chris24 at 11:39 AM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


A cliche, but true: you learn more from defeat than victory.

...yet the Republicans will have won the popular vote in the presidential election just once in the last seven cycles.
posted by MoonOrb at 11:40 AM on October 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


If you avoid grievous insults to Hispanics, African-Americans, Muslims, Gold Star families, don’t brag about pawing genitals, and don’t question the legitimacy of elections—honestly, Donald—you’ve come out ahead.

On the one hand, yeah, the GOP are going to nominate a much more self-possessed and calm fascist next time. On the other hand, most of those things are what the GOP's base wants to hear anyway, so good luck appealing to the now awakened fascists without dabbling in fascism.
posted by Pope Guilty at 11:40 AM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]




Trump is also falling straight into an Allred trap. Actually not falling he's saying here I am and jumping into it.
posted by Jalliah at 11:41 AM on October 22, 2016 [6 favorites]


> I guess I don't understand why that applies more in the US than in other places though. I've also noticed that American news interviewers lack teeth, but surely people in other parts of the world can hand out the same threats of loss of access to interviewers? Why should it matter more in America?

That's a good question; I never thought of that. Why indeed?
posted by languagehat at 11:44 AM on October 22, 2016


As the Trump Effect filters through the classroom, a small child practices making smart choices.
posted by Countess Elena at 11:44 AM on October 22, 2016 [29 favorites]


I'm not really interested in doing it, so maybe there's the answer, but why does wikileaks not just get DOSed by crapflood of uninteresting mundane garbage? Do they really have the staff to filter out the Treaty of Westphalia or the storage to repost the entire digital content of the internet so someone else can?
posted by ctmf at 11:45 AM on October 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


Trump is also falling straight into an Allred trap. Actually not falling he's saying here I am and jumping into it.

I've seen one or two mentions of this...there's another Allred announcement at 5:00 p.m. ET today?

Also, unrelated, but why not: Emma Loop is following Miley Cyrus around as she door knocks for HRC at George Mason University.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 11:46 AM on October 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


"Access" is a race to the bottom -- journalists can be fierce only if they all are...

We have to hope that shifting demographics will do what the media cannot.
posted by phliar at 11:46 AM on October 22, 2016


@mattduss: Gotta hand it to Trump. As campaign promises go, “I will immediately embroil the country in my sex scandal” is pretty outside the box.
posted by chris24 at 11:47 AM on October 22, 2016 [77 favorites]


there's another Allred announcement at 5:00 p.m. ET today?

Not to dismiss Allred or anything, but if you wanted to get attention for something even in the digital age, 5pm on a Saturday is the worst time I can possibly think of.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:53 AM on October 22, 2016


I've seen one or two mentions of this...there's another Allred announcement at 5:00 p.m. ET today?

Yes there is another one today. Not sure what time, i think it may have happened already.

If you look at some of the Cosby suits she's pursuing they are defamation suits filed by 30+ women based on Cosby calling them liars.

Now we get Donald Trump, calling all the women liars, on a national stage, in the international media, calling them liars over and over and over.

She's not stupid. It's a trap.
posted by Jalliah at 11:54 AM on October 22, 2016 [12 favorites]


Neither MSNBC or CNN is cutting their coverage. They're just letting Trump get away with this. I'm not sure why they didn't just pull the pool coverage the second they were being led on.

Remember when he punked the media into letting him to an infomercial about his hotel in DC? And the media was pissed?
posted by kirkaracha at 11:55 AM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


Not to dismiss Allred or anything, but if you wanted to get attention for something even in the digital age, 5pm on a Saturday is the worst time I can possibly think of.

These days that might be the only time to guarantee air time or attention.
posted by mazola at 11:55 AM on October 22, 2016


I'm getting the impression that the old rules about slow news moments, Friday afternoon and so forth, no longer hold in these tweeting times, and that the formerly slow news times may actually be good for dropping bombshells now, as many of the chief flacks are at home trying to have some semblance of a family life, or at least to sleep.
posted by Countess Elena at 11:58 AM on October 22, 2016 [9 favorites]


Not to dismiss Allred or anything, but if you wanted to get attention for something even in the digital age, 5pm on a Saturday is the worst time I can possibly think of.

When there are so many allegations and other bad press events it's tough to find a time slot to yourself!
posted by MoonOrb at 11:59 AM on October 22, 2016


These days that might be the only time to guarantee air time or attention.

And it could also be that there are so many that she's just spacing them out time wise. Every couple of days sort of thing. *drip, drip drip*

I'm wondering if the plan is to eventually do a Cosby type thing where once there are so many they do a group thing just to make it clear. Give each their own time and then bamm, look at them all.
posted by Jalliah at 11:59 AM on October 22, 2016


Piers Morgan has been quiet lately.

Not really following his adventures, but he's been yelling at british racists lately, especially certain remarkably stupid Tory MPs (some background to the latter). He also seems to be in some kind of Twitter war with India's cricket team, but that's beyond my scope of interest.
posted by effbot at 12:02 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


I guess I don't understand why that applies more in the US than in other places though.
I suspect it's the existence of robust, state-funded but editorially independent media who has a mandate to do more than chase eyeballs. In Australia, you see this kind of interview mostly on the ABC. I associate the UK interviewers who do it with the BBC. There's really no US equivalent.
posted by une_heure_pleine at 12:02 PM on October 22, 2016 [12 favorites]


If you watched the Al Smith dinner, you watched Trump touch Hillary Clinton as often as he could. That creeped me out completely, and though it seem innocuous, it was a very clear statement. I own this, I am blameless, see it is polite to touch married women in a social situation, after continuously defaming them over months. I abuse, I touch, it is my privilege.
posted by Oyéah at 12:03 PM on October 22, 2016 [25 favorites]


MetaTalk: Get Yer Voting Stories Here!
posted by Wordshore at 12:06 PM on October 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


I think typically you can bury news on the weekend, but Trump doesn't know how to shut up and let it stay buried, indeed he'll be ranting and foaming at the mouth about it by Monday, keeping it fresh to start off the weekly news cycle.
posted by jason_steakums at 12:07 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


Also, Saturday evening will compel all of the Trump surrogates to defend on short notice yet another harassment allegation on the Sunday morning political talk show circuit.
posted by MoonOrb at 12:09 PM on October 22, 2016 [13 favorites]


@wikileaks: Leak early, leak often: If WikiLeaks had obtained Clinton emails earlier, US voters could have chosen Sanders v Trump. So do it. Do it now.

"YOU ARE SO BAD AT THIS"
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:09 PM on October 22, 2016 [15 favorites]


If you were worried about what Wikileaks still might have to get Clinton with, I think this tweet basically tells us they got nothing. So please send something. Quickly.

He's busy ranting about evil Sweden and how the Rothschilds control media, so probably has no time to check the submissions.
posted by effbot at 12:12 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]




>It's about how these politically conservative converts are borrowing the cultural capital of American Catholicism as more socially acceptable and normal, or at least closer to WASP, than sincere/wacko/lower-class evangelicalism...and using this faith they weren't raised in to help along a political conservatism disdained by a large wing of the Church in America.

The response of most of the (almost all white) conservative Trump-supporting Catholics I know to the fact that Catholics are pretty strongly supporting Clinton is either "Catholics who attend church every week are voting for Trump" despite that not being true or to basically say Latino Catholics don't count.
posted by edeezy at 12:15 PM on October 22, 2016 [4 favorites]


@wikileaks: Leak early, leak often: If WikiLeaks had obtained Clinton emails earlier, US voters could have chosen Sanders v Trump. So do it. Do it now.

We seeko the leakos
posted by EatTheWeak at 12:15 PM on October 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


Nice use of the poking stick there, WaPo: Donald Trump, officially out of ideas, says he will sue his female accusers.
posted by mudpuppie at 12:16 PM on October 22, 2016 [16 favorites]



So a more stupid incoming warning. Not sure when it's going to drop but James O'Keefe says he's publishing a video that proves the Clinton personally directed what happens at Trump rallies.

The next two weeks can't end soon enough...
posted by Jalliah at 12:17 PM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


CNN Panel Laughs When Trump Backer Says No Evidence to Call Him Racist
Things really dissolved when [panelist Symone] Sellers asked [Trump supporter Gina] Loudon to name senior black staffers advising Trump’s campaign.

“You named Katrina Pierson. I bet you can’t name two,” he challenged.

“I could go on all day,” Loudon replied. “Omorosa. I mean I could go on all day. I’m not going to play into your little tester—”

Lemon and the rest of the four-person panel burst into laughter, and apparently some CNN staffers did as well.
The clip also features Loudon claiming that Trump had nothing do with taking out full-page ads calling for the Central Park Five to be executed and then being presented with the ad.
posted by kirkaracha at 12:18 PM on October 22, 2016 [8 favorites]


James O'Keefe says he's publishing a video that proves the Clinton personally directed what happens at Trump rallies

This doesn't sound like something that would be necessary if the rallies were excellent events.
posted by MoonOrb at 12:18 PM on October 22, 2016 [4 favorites]


"All of these liars will be sued after the election is over."

Why can't he sue them now?
posted by kirkaracha at 12:21 PM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


The architecture of information delivery systems would thereby be deemed critical infrastructure, and the content of the information they deliver would be monitored for quality.

This works for state-funded media; it clashes horribly with first-amendment rights of the press run by private citizens. Also, it's a technical nightmare - are Twitter and Facebook part of that critical infrastructure?

I can see a good case for state-funded and nonprofit media organizations being held to standards. I'm not sure what those standards should be - or rather, whom I'd trust to establish and enforce them. I do suspect that this, like "let's set up gun laws like the UK or Japan," is a fantasy concept even aside from 2nd amendment issues. It's impossible to implement in the US; you can't put that toothpaste back into the tube.

I could, however, see a potential economic solution - the downslide of quality journalism has been noted for years, and it'd be nice to see an organization announce, "we're going to cover that," and have serious quality journalism in several media. But that would need a lot of startup money and a lot of income for news that's not nearly as entertaining as "Trump: Douchebag or Asshat?" vs "Hillary: Threat or Menace?" articles. And whoever paid for it, there'd be massive accusations of bias and partisanship.

I'm not sure such a thing as "unbiased, objective, non-partisan news" exists, much less in the political realm. Coming up with standards for that means establishing what is considered "normal" and therefore not-newsworthy, and that usually means putting straight-white-christian-cis-men firmly in the center.

"New Baptist church opens in Arkansas" is not, by any reasonable standard, news; "new Wiccan church opens in Arkansas" may be national news. But is that pandering to Pagans by giving them attention, or pandering to Christians by normalizing them?

News media have shifted to the tumblr-esque approach of "lookit lookit lookit!" instead of analysis, in part because there's no such thing as unbiased analysis. Normally, that works tolerably well, but when one side of an issue is running on a campaign of "everyone who disagrees with me is a criminal liar," it falls apart. But I don't see any simple solution.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 12:21 PM on October 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


> "Why can't he sue them now?"

He can't sue them now because all of his sexual assaults are being audited by the IRS, and he will release evidence for this at the appropriate time, along with other long-promised information such as a list of his creditors, the secret information from Hawaii about Obama's birth certificate, Melania's immigration documents, his medical records, and his tax returns.
posted by kyrademon at 12:26 PM on October 22, 2016 [68 favorites]


@jbview: Last Gallup approval before election, outgoing two-termers:
DDE 58%
RWR 51
WJC 57
GWB 25

Today:
BHO 57
posted by chris24 at 12:26 PM on October 22, 2016 [28 favorites]


"All of these liars will be sued after the election is over."

Why can't he sue them now?


His litigiousness is under audit. ON preview, dammit.
posted by dis_integration at 12:30 PM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


sue them now

OMG Trump is telegraphing his strategy.

Didn't he say we shouldn't do that vis a vis ISIS?
posted by spitbull at 12:31 PM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


All of the "after the election" talk about shit that is really in his personal life reveals--just as does the rhetoric about rigged elections--his belief that he is going to lose the election. If he really thought he was going to win he would not talk about things this way.
posted by MoonOrb at 12:32 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


Donald Trump has a unique view of the Bill of Rights. Here’s how it might look under his presidency.
The president of the United States takes an oath to “preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States.”

Donald Trump, who is one of two people who might take that oath next, promises to staunchly defend “Article XII” of the Constitution (there is no Article XII) while threatening to undo the fundamental principles of American democracy that are laid out in it—principles that have set us apart for the past 240 years and give us hope for a brighter future.
...
Here’s our best guess at what the Bill of Rights would look like under a Trump presidency.
posted by kirkaracha at 12:33 PM on October 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


Why can't he sue them now?

He's got to wait for them all to come forward first.
posted by zarq at 12:46 PM on October 22, 2016 [15 favorites]


Despite what I learned in school, I've been coming around to the view that an unbiased media is a chimera. It's impossible; bias in the context of journalism is totally subjective, so there's no way to ensure agreement in terms of what would constitute an "unbiased" news organization. It creates the situation we have now where we have competing news organizations, all of which have their house biases pitched to the segment of the market that they're targeting, but which purport to be unbiased in order to pander to those same market segments and maintain a veneer of respectability.

It also leads to false balance and false equivalency situations, and to an unwillingness to call out obvious bullshit for fear of being accused of bias. It also leads consumers to be inappropriately credulous, because the media presents itself as an arbiter of objective truth even when it is making constant editorial decisions about what to present, how much resources to devote to various topics, what the appropriate wording is when discussing things, who should be consulted to bring expert perspective to their coverage, and on and on. There's bias all right, but it's kept under the surface and we try to pretend that it doesn't exist.

What we need are news organizations that wear their biases on their sleeves. We need a media that is willing to own its bias openly, to talk about the philosophies that inform its coverage, to let us in on what its vision for the world is. Given that bias is impossible to avoid, it should at least be acknowledged so that people can calibrate their interpretations to suit rather than feeling like they're expected to take the news at face value. It would also open the door to a much more activist press, one that understands it has a duty not just to report on events in the world but to shape them as well, to discourage certain things and encourage others. This is a role that the media already plays, but they deny responsibility for it and hence it happens haphazardly and in secret rather than in an open, coordinated fashion.

The facade of objectivity puts a barrier between the news and the consumer of news, by hiding what should be put in plain sight. We need a media that acknowledges and accepts the full extent of its role in society. This chickenshit claim of "unbiasedness" has got to go.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 12:49 PM on October 22, 2016 [19 favorites]


BTW, just in case you weren't aware, the other lawyer representing the accusers, Lisa Bloom, is Gloria Allred's daughter.
posted by Sophie1 at 12:52 PM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


OMG WAKE UP SHEEPLE

Some of my favorite results so far.

And apparently one of the source images it's pulling in is already a crazypants conspiracy meme that it just lays more mumbo-jumbo over. Poe's Law, you're on notice.
posted by tonycpsu at 12:59 PM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


Here’s our best guess at what the Bill of Rights would look like under a Trump presidency.
Mainstream Media replaced by Twitter Trolls. Got it.

The biggest news of Trump's "First 100 Days" speech is that he has turned against Comcast. This is very good news since the 'Cast's ownership has allegedly been the reason some NBC/MSNBC people had actually been nice to Trump, because they wanted his FCC to let them become even more monopolistic. But this may result in everyone who worked on "The Apprentice" being released from their NDAs before Election Day and a the long-term benefit of preventing anybody who ever gained fame from "Reality TV" ever having any political future again! Yay!

Also notable: I don't know if he misspoke about AT&T merging with TWC or if it was just the commenters here, but the fact that Time Warner Cable and Time Warner Media had un-merged years ago without either changing names still causes confusion. TWC has already merged with Charter Cable and the AT&T deal is to acquire Time Warner, the "content producers" (HBO, Warner Bros. Studio, CNN), like Comcast acquired NBCUniversal. Which is a whole 'nother problem.
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:04 PM on October 22, 2016 [4 favorites]


The Kellyanne wing of the Trump campaign has put out a press release with the 100 day agenda. Curiously absent are the plans to sue his accusers and direct federal regulators to target media firms he believes have wronged him. Some of the lowlights include:
SECOND, a hiring freeze on all federal employees to reduce federal workforce through attrition (exempting military, public safety, and public health);
So in a massive and varied workforce, we can just reduce everything through attrition and I'm sure that will work out? Ignoring the vagueness of these categories, there's no chance we'll need more air traffic controllers or caretakers at the National Zoo or postal workers or census takers anytime soon?
THIRD, a requirement that for every new federal regulation, two existing regulations must be eliminated;
We discussed why this is stupid above.
SIXTH, lift the Obama-Clinton roadblocks and allow vital energy infrastructure projects, like the Keystone Pipeline, to move forward
Many such "roadblocks" are regulations and you can't just repeal those arbitrarily on day 1.
THIRD, cancel all federal funding to Sanctuary Cities
This is not an executive power except for certain grants from Justice.
FIFTH, suspend immigration from terror-prone regions where vetting cannot safely occur. All vetting of people coming into our country will be considered extreme vetting.
What does this mean? Does "will be considered" just mean we slap the label "extreme" in front of the current visa application process and call it a day?
2. End The Offshoring Act Establishes tariffs to discourage companies from laying off their workers in order to relocate in other countries and ship their products back to the U.S. tax-free.
So, you mean a massive tax? On ordinary consumer products? That people depend on?
4. School Choice And Education Opportunity Act. Redirects education dollars to gives parents the right to send their kid to the public, private, charter, magnet, religious or home school of their choice. Ends common core, brings education supervision to local communities. It expands vocational and technical education, and make 2 and 4-year college more affordable.
Yeah, because nobody's going to have a problem funding religious schools with government funds, right? And way to offer some specifics on making college more affordable. Very detailed plan. The most detailed.
8. Restoring Community Safety Act. Reduces surging crime, drugs and violence by creating a Task Force On Violent Crime and increasing funding for programs that train and assist local police; increases resources for federal law enforcement agencies and federal prosecutors to dismantle criminal gangs and put violent offenders behind bars.
The big plan from a guy who promised to end crime on day 1 is now to get Congress to pass a law creating a task force and spending an unspecified additional amount of money on unspecified things that have something to do with the police? This is straight "crime, boy, I don't know" level leadership here.

Other lowlights include a tax plan that sends the deficit spiraling, building the wall on credit with Mexico to reimburse us later, a childcare tax deduction that is presumably useless if you already pay little to no federal income tax, replacing Obamacare with HSAs, and all kinds of other nonsense.
posted by zachlipton at 1:08 PM on October 22, 2016 [54 favorites]


The farthest point reached by Confederate forces during Pickett's Charge at the Battle of Gettysburg is often called the high-water mark of the Confederacy, as close as they came to winning the battle (and theoretically* the war).

I believe Trump's campaign and loss will be the high water mark of the Republicans trying to win the presidency by harnessing racist, populist anger. Through continuing demographic change and old people dying, the electorate in 2020 is going to be more diverse. There aren't enough angry old white people to win this election, and there will be even fewer of them in four years.

* The Confederacy would probably have lost the war even if Lee won at Gettysburg. Pickett's Charge was on July 3, 1863. The next day Vicksburg surrendered to US Grant, giving the Union control of the Mississippi River and cutting the Confederacy in half.
posted by kirkaracha at 1:10 PM on October 22, 2016 [14 favorites]


"YOU ARE SO BAD AT THIS"

"We need a non-politician, a successful outsider businessman" has been an enduring myth since at least 1980. Hopefully Trump's disaster should start to undermine that.

There is something deeply undemocratic and authoritarian (not to mention racist) underneath all of this "stop playing political games and just say what you think" rhetoric, and Trump has exposed it.

Politics is hard, damned hard. Building coalitions and including all the different groups in society, those are good things and no one should apologize for them. I also think this is somewhat gendered, at least in our current social context. Coalition building and taking care of people's feelings has been assigned to women for some reason, while being a loner asshole who breaks all the rules has been strangely celebrated.

Hopefully after this trainwreck, men who are actually considerate and women who break shit, piss people off and get stuff done become equally possible.
posted by msalt at 1:13 PM on October 22, 2016 [41 favorites]


"All of these liars will be sued after the election is over."

Given Trump's own record of being a liar, perhaps he feels his mountain of lies will be given a pass over the anthill of lies (that aren't lies of course) in much the same way banks will forgive millions of dollars in loans but scorch the Earth to collect $10 from someone whose been put out of their home and lives on the street.
posted by juiceCake at 1:19 PM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


> Former Ku Klux Klan leader and Assange fanboy David Duke has qualified for a televised debate

FTFY.


For those who did not wish to click through to David Duke's Twitter account, here's a post where you can see the WikiLeaks tweet that prompted David Duke's praise of Julian Assange via a Shepard Fairey-esque Assange with the word HERO instead of HOPE, and also "America owes you, bigly! Thank you and God bless you!"

I would feel like a real piece of shit if Duke was that into my work, but I suspect Assange and I may just be very different people.
posted by palindromic at 1:19 PM on October 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


The farthest point reached by Confederate forces during Pickett's Charge at the Battle of Gettysburg is often called the high-water mark of the Confederacy, as close as they came to winning the battle (and theoretically* the war).

I believe Trump's campaign and loss will be the high water mark of the Republicans trying to win the presidency by harnessing racist, populist anger. Through continuing demographic change and old people dying, the electorate in 2020 is going to be more diverse. There aren't enough angry old white people to win this election, and there will be even fewer of them in four years.


Dixieland:

"I am Kilrain of the 20th Maine...
And I damn all gentlemen
Whose only worth is their father's name
And the sweat of a workin' man
Well we come from the farms
And the city streets and a hundred foreign lands
And we spilled our blood in the battle's heat
Now we're all Americans."
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 1:21 PM on October 22, 2016 [7 favorites]


SIXTH, lift the Obama-Clinton roadblocks and allow vital energy infrastructure projects, like the Keystone Pipeline, to move forward.
Yes. The vital Canadian infrastructure project that would allow them to move shale oil, extracted by environmentally devastating means, through the US to be refined and sold to other countries in a way that US oil companies are still prohibited from doing. I love my brothers and sisters just a few miles to the north, but no thanks.
posted by xyzzy at 1:23 PM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


I love my brothers and sisters just a few miles to the north, but no thanks.

Hey now. A bunch of us Canadians don't think it's such a great idea, either.

But your point absolutely stands.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 1:28 PM on October 22, 2016 [18 favorites]


He literally just said "we're going to take on big boners." I rewinded and watched it 3 times.
posted by Sophie1 at 1:30 PM on October 22, 2016 [12 favorites]


Also notable: I don't know if he misspoke about AT&T merging with TWC

But Spectrum just bought TWC?
posted by Room 641-A at 1:38 PM on October 22, 2016


Spy: How Much Patriotic Crap Can We Order Poolside at Trump's Vegas Hotel?
SPY 1: We're just trying to have a real American party here. Is there like an American flag around?

Waiter: I can look.

SPY 1: Thank you very much.

Our waiter returns with five miniature American flags. The plastic white sticks say "MADE IN CHINA."

SPY 1: Thank you!
posted by kirkaracha at 1:39 PM on October 22, 2016 [15 favorites]


AM Joy had an analyst on this morning who had a more nuanced explanation of the Murphy funding withdrawal. He's currently within 2 points of Rubio and the idea is that his only chance is to be carried on a Clinton wave, so individually funding his campaign is a waste of resources that could be better spent on top ticket GOTV and advertising.

On preview: Spectrum bought TWC, but the media arm that owns CNN and friends is on the block.
posted by xyzzy at 1:40 PM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


apologies if this eerily prescient Onion bit from (almost) four years ago has already been posted ...

After Obama Victory, Shrieking White-Hot Sphere Of Pure Rage Early GOP Front-Runner For 2016
posted by philip-random at 1:40 PM on October 22, 2016 [53 favorites]


He literally just said "we're going to take on big boners." I rewinded and watched it 3 times.

I thought 'hee hee' And not that didn't believe you I wondered who else heard this. So I searched 'trump boners' on Twitter and it's pretty funny. "Did I hear that right?"... "I think I just heard big boners has this election driven me around the bend?"
posted by Jalliah at 1:44 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


Because of course he was.

Lobbyist-bashing Trump was once a lobbyist

"Before Donald Trump proposed new restrictions on lobbyists, he was one.

Trump was a registered lobbyist in Rhode Island from April 2006 through the end of that year, according to state records reviewed by POLITICO.

The businessman was registered to lobby on behalf of Trump Entertainment Resorts Holdings, the casino operator in which he was then a minority shareholder, and received $4,000 per month for the work, according to state records."
posted by chris24 at 1:44 PM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


He literally just said "we're going to take on big boners." I rewinded and watched it 3 times.
Schadenfreudian slip.
posted by jferg at 1:45 PM on October 22, 2016 [12 favorites]


Does "will be considered" just mean we slap the label "extreme" in front of the current visa application process and call it a day?

Look, do you want pre-teens from the 90's to find immigration exciting, or not?
posted by jackbishop at 1:48 PM on October 22, 2016 [16 favorites]


He literally just said "we're going to take on big boners." I rewinded and watched it 3 times.

Schadenfreudian slip.


So! They laugh at my boner, will they?! I'll show them! I'll show them how many boners The Joker can make!
posted by J.K. Seazer at 1:48 PM on October 22, 2016 [15 favorites]


In my affluent suburb of Seattle, a handful of Trump * Pence signs have sprung up in the last few days. They look decidedly amateurish. Meanwhile, our Republican state rep is sending out flyers touting how "progressive" he is. The most recent one actually says "#NeverTrump" on it.
posted by Slothrup at 1:54 PM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


I'm so glad I'm not the only one who heard that!
posted by Sophie1 at 1:55 PM on October 22, 2016


phillip-random, my favorite bit at the end of the Shrieking White-Hot Ball of Rage clip is the chyron at the very end that says "Hillary Clinton says she has 'not ruled out' a run in 2016; orb instantly quadruples in size."
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 1:55 PM on October 22, 2016 [44 favorites]


I'm not really interested in doing it, so maybe there's the answer, but why does wikileaks not just get DOSed by crapflood of uninteresting mundane garbage? Do they really have the staff to filter out the Treaty of Westphalia or the storage to repost the entire digital content of the internet so someone else can?

Maybe their russian handlers keep using the same email address as the last time to let them know they've uploaded yetmorepoorlysecuredemails.tar.gz to the server.
posted by sebastienbailard at 1:58 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]




That's so weird it needs a [real] tag. What the hell, 2016?
posted by zachlipton at 2:07 PM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


Gloria Allred can barely hold back her smile as she describes all the lawsuits she can now file, and all the people who have offered to help pay the accusers' legal fees.

"Be careful what you wish for, Mr. Trump."

I like her.
posted by schadenfrau at 2:07 PM on October 22, 2016 [14 favorites]


It's about how these politically conservative converts are borrowing the cultural capital of American Catholicism as more socially acceptable and normal, or at least closer to WASP

e.g. Newt Gingrich, who had two marriages ended by his adultery wiped off the slate so that he could convert. (That's a hilarious headline, and sallybrown's "cosplay Catholicism" is a wonderful phrase.)

American Catholicism is in generational transition now, with a hierarchy of "white ethnic" bishops, a middle-aged congregation that includes both suburban conservatives and those with Jesuit backgrounds and/or exposed to liberation theology, and a rapidly-growing group that treats the 12th of December as the biggest feast day outside of the holy days of obligation and not the 17th of March.

(I got to see a version of the class/politics breakdown in the UK, comparing the working-class immigrant-built parishes of my industrial home town to the posher and more conservative Oratory / Cardinal Newman parishes of my university days.)
posted by holgate at 2:10 PM on October 22, 2016 [7 favorites]


11th accuser: Adult performer & director Jessica Drake accusing Trump of sexual assault: "I am a feminist & advocate for LGBT & sex workers."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:11 PM on October 22, 2016 [14 favorites]


I'm sure Trump will be measured and completely non-insulting in his response to Jessica Drake.
posted by Justinian at 2:13 PM on October 22, 2016 [17 favorites]


11th accuser is adult film star and sex education advocate Jessica Drake. When she turned him down he said, "What do you want? How much?"

He offered her 10k and the use of his private plane.

She's come forward in support of the other women and because of Trump's misogyny.

This is amazing.
posted by schadenfrau at 2:13 PM on October 22, 2016 [68 favorites]


That was really powerful. "I may be but a grain of sand, but clearly this is an enormous beach."
posted by Room 641-A at 2:14 PM on October 22, 2016 [35 favorites]


Jessica Drake might be a fucking badass.
posted by schadenfrau at 2:16 PM on October 22, 2016 [9 favorites]


just a warning, googling Jessica Drake is a decidedly NSFW venture. I admire her courage. Sex workers and pornographic performers face extra resistance to assault claims
posted by dis_integration at 2:18 PM on October 22, 2016 [20 favorites]


2006, after his third marriage.
posted by schadenfrau at 2:18 PM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


I can neither confirm nor deny that I didn't have to google Jessica Drake.
posted by Justinian at 2:18 PM on October 22, 2016 [14 favorites]


Gloria Allred giving the press a mini-seminar on consent.

It is so very weird to feel happy, watching this, and yet holy shit! A sex worker has star powered representation and is able to come forward to make an accusation against the Republican nominee? Without apologizing for her work, and while explicitly talking about consent?

That is amazing.
posted by schadenfrau at 2:24 PM on October 22, 2016 [103 favorites]


> He can't sue them now because all of his sexual assaults are being audited by the IRS, and he will release evidence for this at the appropriate time, along with other long-promised information such as a list of his creditors, the secret information from Hawaii about Obama's birth certificate, Melania's immigration documents, his medical records, and his tax returns.

Please, people, remember your [fake] tags! It's the 2016 election and all bets are off!
posted by languagehat at 2:26 PM on October 22, 2016 [11 favorites]


Mousa Abusaif, 20, tells Miley [Cyrus] that Trump tried to have him fired from his Washington country club.

I feel the scriptwriters for 2016 just aren't even trying anymore.
posted by tavella at 2:26 PM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


James O'Keefe says he's publishing a video that proves the Clinton personally directed what happens at Trump rallies

If he had proof he would've led with that. Although it's possible he may be attempting a rope-a-dope with his first video release, provoking a strong denial from the Clinton campaign that could be contradicted by his upcoming clip. Clinton did in fact respond, "I know nothing about this." If his second video indicates that she did know about Foval's scheme, even if she was completely opposed to it, being caught in a lie could prove damaging.
posted by xigxag at 2:27 PM on October 22, 2016


Regardless of what O'Keefe shows, his dishonest editing casts everything in doubt. Trump's supporters will buy it hook, line, and sinker. But responsible journalists seem to just dismiss Project Veritas as a matter of course. This is what happens when you poison the well and cry wolf.
posted by xyzzy at 2:33 PM on October 22, 2016 [10 favorites]



Whelp I'm guessing that Jessica Drake may be one of the woman the Republican strategy guy was referencing in a tweet a number of days ago. I can't remember which one it was. Does anyone? It may have been posted here.

It was in reference to Trump using the 'look at them, I wouldn't touch them cause they're not attractive' defense. The strategy guy said something along the lines of this 'just remember this and wait, you'll see".
posted by Jalliah at 2:35 PM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


Republican strategist and NeverTrumper Rick Wilson:

@TheRickWilson
"Remember this story. Soon.

Trump's Atty : His sexual assault accusers 'aren't even women he'd be attracted to'"
posted by chris24 at 2:37 PM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


If O'Keefe had as good an editor as Weird Al (and his Songified Debate is awesome), the most damning thing he could cook up would be Hillary 'saying': "I want you people to infiltrate the crowd and lead cheers of 'LOCK HER UP'".

in honor of today's semi-holiday: "CAPSLOCK HER UP"
posted by oneswellfoop at 2:38 PM on October 22, 2016 [4 favorites]


I'm guessing not this Jessica Drake.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 2:40 PM on October 22, 2016


By announcing that he will sue these women after the election is he admitting that he knows he will lose the election, or is he planning on filing these lawsuits as president?
posted by Room 641-A at 2:42 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


I'm guessing not this Jessica Drake.

No. This one. Jessica Drake wikipedia (SFW)
posted by Jalliah at 2:42 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


He wants to wait til they all come forward so it can be a reverse class action?
posted by ian1977 at 2:44 PM on October 22, 2016 [4 favorites]


(Sorry, that was needlessly rhetorical. I think he knows he is going to lose.)
posted by Room 641-A at 2:45 PM on October 22, 2016


is he planning on filing these lawsuits as president?
He's assuming he can, just after he appoints the judges to hear the cases. Because he is More Than Fascist, he's Trumpist.
posted by oneswellfoop at 2:46 PM on October 22, 2016 [4 favorites]


He isn't going to sue jack. He's a bully and a coward.
posted by Justinian at 2:47 PM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


...but once he gets Ultimate Power over everybody as SuperPresident, then he'll do everything he ever wanted.
posted by oneswellfoop at 2:49 PM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


He isn't going to sue jack. He's a bully and a coward.

but throwing around malicious lawsuits is precisely what bullying cowards do
posted by philip-random at 2:49 PM on October 22, 2016 [6 favorites]


Since she's a sex worker, can we assume that Trump and fans are about to crank up their misogyny to unprecedented levels?
posted by Yowser at 3:22 PM on October 22, 2016 [13 favorites]


Since she's a sex worker, can we assume that Trump and fans are about to crank up their misogyny to unprecedented levels?

How close will Trump and the surrogates coming to using the word "whore" without actually saying it.
posted by Talez at 3:24 PM on October 22, 2016


What are you talking about? Of course they'll say it. By Tuesday.
posted by LionIndex at 3:26 PM on October 22, 2016 [33 favorites]


I would bet a piping hot pizza that either he or one of his surrogates will call her just that before this is all over.
posted by Countess Elena at 3:27 PM on October 22, 2016 [10 favorites]


Since she's a sex worker, can we assume that Trump and fans are about to crank up their misogyny to unprecedented levels?

Yes. With the added bonus that there are some fans that know who this woman is. So we may get some interesting cognative dissonance stuff going on as well.
posted by Jalliah at 3:28 PM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


I'm not aware of a stimulus that doesn't crank their misogyny up?

Actually, and this is genuinely deplorable even though I have no love for her, but Kellyanne Conway probably has to take her personal safety from stochastic misogynistic violence into consideration as part of her jumping-ship calculus. And while she deserves a lot of things, she doesn't deserve that.
posted by tivalasvegas at 3:29 PM on October 22, 2016 [10 favorites]


That alt-right conspiracy generator just captured my feelings over the past few months pretty accurately.
posted by MysticMCJ at 3:35 PM on October 22, 2016 [16 favorites]


SFW [no nude/porn images, though discusses the assault (unwanted kissing), proposition and Drake's career] article about Jessica Drake's accusation. Has a photo of Drake & Allred with Allred holding a photo of Trump & Drake at a 2006 Lake Tahoe, CA golf tournament.
posted by ASCII Costanza head at 3:40 PM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


Daffy Donald: Ha! That’s it! Hold it right there! (Pronoun trouble!) It’s not that I don’t have sue YOU now, it’s YOU don’t have to sue ME now! Well I say you DO have to sue me now! SO SUE ME NOW!
posted by SPrintF at 3:40 PM on October 22, 2016 [6 favorites]


Also surprisingly accurate
posted by MysticMCJ at 3:41 PM on October 22, 2016


I don't know where else to post this, and it's tangentially election-related so here goes.

I was driving around today and started skipping through AM radio stations to check the pulse of the local branch of the conservative industrial complex (I live in the deep south). I recognized a voice from my childhood on the air and realized it was a friend of the family from way back. I had heard that he had gotten some air time on a local radio station but I had never actually heard his show before (let's call him Mark). For a laugh, I figured that I'd call in and antagonize him a bit. We had always had a jovial relationship in the past. He was close friends with my recently deceased father and they always had polite but good-natured political/religious arguments. My father was the type to not get involved in anything political, while Mark was a silent-majority Limbaugh Republican from way back.

By the time I finally got through to the radio show, I only had a few minutes to talk, so we agreed that I would call him back on his personal line and we would catch up.

So I did and boy was it something. I didn't bring up any leftist ideas (I lean towards the Hillary-hating hardcore Left), but just the idea that I was not voting for Trump sent him into conniptions. He called me an idiot, told me I was insane, said he was ashamed of me, and spewed all kinds of vitriol and hate. This was directed at me, not my ideas. I was a devious, devil-worshiping, baby-killing person because I wasn't supporting Trump. He yelled and screamed and cursed until I was almost to the point of tears. Then, he put his son on the phone.

His 18 year-old son (let's call him James) began to eviscerate me in the same way that his father did. His son said that he always looked up to me in the past (I'm ten years older than him and had been his Sunday School teacher at one point) , but now he couldn't believe what a filthy disgusting Democrat I was. I kept trying to ask him about his life and what was going on but he kept up with the vitriol.

Eventually, I pulled out of him that he joined the Army last week and ships out for basic training in a few weeks. He railed about Hillary's hawkishness and since we found something to agree on, he calmed down and we began to talk.

He began to tell me what a terrible person he was and all the horrible things that he had done. (his words, not mine. This kind of self-hating guilt is common in conservative Christian circles). He told me about his intravenous drug use (that his parents didn't know about) and the fact that he curses and sometimes hates God for his poor family life (he was adopted out of even-worse circumstances).

He told me that he originally was unkind to me on the phone because his Dad was around but that he didn't agree with his Dad on all the issues, specifically Gay people. He asked me what I thought about Gays and I told him (but not revealing that I'm Bi) and he said he doesn't have any problem with them. Then, he asked me what I thought about Furries. Thankfully, I didn't poke fun because he admitted that he likes to dress up like a furry with his girlfriend when he can sneak away at night.

He recounted a story about when the Army recruitment officer told him that officers couldn't fraternize with enlisted men and he responded "I'm too ugly for you guys anyways" and they all laughed. (yes, I think he may have same-sex desires).

Then, he opened up about his life that he hates. He lives on a farm in the middle of nowhere and joined the army because he said he was too dumb to go to school (he has a GED). He said that he hates his life and that no matter who gets elected he's going to die in a war soon anyways.

He doesn't have a cell phone but he has my number and he promised to call me when he gets a phone next week. I think he just needs someone to talk to. I haven't been in his exact situation, but I know what he's going through. I'm trying to be a friend to him, so I guess we'll see where it goes. Hopefully we can connect and he can breathe some fresh air, but I'm not holding my breath, most people don't make it out.

Normally I'm the one that is snarky about all these too-convenient-to-be-true Liberal feel-good stories like "my kid said that trump is bad" etc. But man I'm so sick of the hatred and intolerance that I just want to fucking scream. It's exhausting to just be myself (white, male-presenting, queer, and liberal) in this environment and the fact that it's even worse for most people is too much to bear.

I didn't know where else to post this, but I needed to share it with someone. I'm not sure what the relevant take-away is (of if there is one) but holy shit was it devastating.
posted by R.F.Simpson at 3:45 PM on October 22, 2016 [239 favorites]



Oh dear. It looks like there may be more to this story.

It's possible tabloidy gossip but part of it does provide some corroboration to Drakes story. Plus the added bonus that the story is actually about a rumored affair with another woman that may be one of the ones with Drake. The outfit in the Clifford photo apparently appears to be the same one in the photo that Allred had.

Though Trump finished in the tournament’s lower reaches, the weekend was not a total loss. While the billionaire’s wife was at home with the couple’s four-month-old son, Trump struck up an acquaintance with a female celebrity who did not tee off, but rather worked the event.

In a gifting suite stocked with freebies for the celebrity golfers, Trump met Stephanie Clifford, a porn actress known professionally as “Stormy Daniels.” Clifford, 27 at the time, had appeared in scores of X-rated films and, owing to her status as a “contract girl” with Wicked Pictures, was a household name in the adult film industry.

As part of her deal with Wicked, Clifford would occasionally make promotional appearances on behalf of the film studio, which had launched the career of Jenna Jameson. At the Lake Tahoe tournament, Clifford (and fellow actress Jessica Drake) greeted players, sponsors, and tournament officials at a booth stocked with Wicked swag.

posted by Jalliah at 3:50 PM on October 22, 2016


Win win for America I say.

I was talking with another Mefite about how there are two levels I see for "what's good for America", and on how on one axis, Hillary Clinton and I actually agree.

The first level, that agreement level, is that we want the country to not actively be on fire. We want the government to be functioning on at least a minimal level, no revolution in the streets, no roving gangs harassing POC, etc. We want the country to just kind of work, which is Good For America.

Then there's the second level, the policy level. Here we differ. We each want a different "Good For America" policy layout of changes. But the thing is - both of those second levels are predicated on the first. You can't get to solidly pushing either conservative or liberal aims when the country is on fire. The country needs to be relatively stable first.

So it's understandable that Democrats are enjoying the GOP in moderate chaos. Moderate chaos means the country isn't on fire, and they can achieve their aims without resistance.

But I flat-out do not understand people who actually say they hope the deplorables continue, or they hope they continue to make up 25% of the GOP, because if the deplorables as they stand become an open, permanent part of American politics, that isn't moderate chaos, that's country-on-fire chaos, resurgence-of-KKK chaos, horrible-for-everyone chaos.

I could be wrong, but I believe in my heart that at least a substantial portion of Democrats wouldn't be willing to let the country be set on fire just to get their policies passed. I wish it were all of them.
posted by corb at 3:54 PM on October 22, 2016 [46 favorites]


On a lighter note...

REPORTER: Mr. President, what's your favorite Wu Tang album?

OBAMA: What kind of question is --

[biden grabs podium]

BIDEN: LIQUID SWORDS
posted by chaoticgood at 3:58 PM on October 22, 2016 [99 favorites]


Who gives a crap what democrats wish tho? We have no effect on these folks, at least not en masse. It on you corb, and your fellow rational republicans, to convince the deplorables to come back to reality. We have a country to run.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 4:01 PM on October 22, 2016 [21 favorites]


So it's understandable that Democrats are enjoying the GOP in moderate chaos. Moderate chaos means the country isn't on fire, and they can achieve their aims without resistance.

I hope to hell this happens but I remember Obama's first two years and the foot-dragging/compromises/cowardice of the Democratic majority was appalling. I'm all but praying that Schumer and Pelosi have a plan, and the discipline, to ram through what needs to passed. The obstructionists on the right aren't going to let up. Fuck them. This is not a time to hope for compromise. Obama tried that. McConnell and Ryan have given us nothing for eight years. It's time to kick them in the balls and take names. The window is going to be a couple years at best so they'd better hit the ground running. Fuck them.
posted by Ber at 4:03 PM on October 22, 2016 [22 favorites]


So it's understandable that Democrats are enjoying the GOP in moderate chaos. Moderate chaos means the country isn't on fire, and they can achieve their aims without resistance.

Maybe some people are but I sure as hell don't enjoy it. A few states have already been destroyed for a generation, another dozen are about to plunge into the abyss. The federal government is gridlocked so we can't even save people at a federal level. There are millions of poor people, POC, LGBT who are going to struggle to tread water over the next decade and more than a few are going to drown. I'm not gleefully enjoying the GOP in its chaos because the chaos is the lunatics operating the asylum right now and we're watching flyover country vote to cut its nose off to spite its face.

I mean it's easy to write it off as "you did it to yourself" but there's a whole bunch of people who didn't vote for libertarian dystopia and can't afford to get out.
posted by Talez at 4:08 PM on October 22, 2016 [33 favorites]


I'm not sure what the relevant take-away is (of if there is one) but holy shit was it devastating.

That despite all of our differences, we're human and deserve respect. Thanks for sharing your story.
posted by Fizz at 4:09 PM on October 22, 2016 [12 favorites]


Moderate chaos means the country isn't on fire, and they can achieve their aims without resistance.

But I flat-out do not understand people who actually say they hope the deplorables continue, or they hope they continue to make up 25% of the GOP, because if the deplorables as they stand become an open, permanent part of American politics, that isn't moderate chaos, that's country-on-fire chaos, resurgence-of-KKK chaos, horrible-for-everyone chaos.


I agree that it would be horrible for the Trumpist right to attain a permanent foothold in American politics. I'm not sure the long-term damage they could inflict on women, people of color, our national discourse, and the fabric of our society would be worth any electoral benefit. But I think something you're missing, corb, is that for most Democrats, the Republican obstructionism and rapacious state-level governance over the last eight years was itself country-on-fire chaos. If the Republicans are too weak and splintered to effectively oppose the Democrats, we can actually do something to put out those fires that the Republicans left smoldering or deliberately started.
posted by J.K. Seazer at 4:11 PM on October 22, 2016 [48 favorites]


foot-dragging/compromises/cowardice of the Democratic majority was appalling

note that this was entirely in the Senate, where there were lots of Democratic senators in "red" states, Senators not enjoying their offices very much longer.

Legislation would have been much different if it only had had to go through Pelosi's majority 2009-2010.
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 4:11 PM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


because if the deplorables as they stand become an open, permanent part of American politics, that isn't moderate chaos, that's country-on-fire chaos, resurgence-of-KKK chaos, horrible-for-everyone chaos

they never left; they spent the '68 -'72 period voting Wallace etc. and then were welcomed into the GOP.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/2002/12/12/lott-apologizes-for-remark.html

Waco, Ruby Ridge, OKC bombing, "DittoHeads", FNC -- the insanity of the right has always been with us (even when it was hosted in the old-timey Democratic Party in the 50s and earlier).
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 4:16 PM on October 22, 2016 [9 favorites]


I'm so proud of Jessica Drake. The courage to come forward dispite the judgement for her job, and activism is hugely brave.
It is also a powerful reminder to everyone that it doesn't matter about your past, that sexual assault is assault.
posted by AlexiaSky at 4:16 PM on October 22, 2016 [58 favorites]


If the Republicans are too weak and splintered to effectively oppose the Democrats, we can actually do something to put out those fires that the Republicans left smoldering or deliberately started.

But the thing is, the Republicans have quietly set things up for themselves so well that less than half the country can still vote in a branch of government that, while not actively trying to further Trumpism, is quietly complicit in others furthering Trumpism's goals or stopping Trumpism's enemies in order to not attract attention and be "Cantored" out of government.

2018 we're mostly fucked. Post-2018, Hillary will be a bulwark against all the crazy Trumpist shit congressional Rs keep trying to push down the pipeline. Then we fight another crazy fucking war in 2020 in an attempt to keep that final bulwark standing because there sure as hell isn't any other conceivable way to stop it.

The next decade is not going to be fun.
posted by Talez at 4:26 PM on October 22, 2016 [6 favorites]


Trump says the U.S. will pay for "the wall" and Mexico will reimburse us.

Called it back in Feb.- "My theory is that he's going to quietly use a bunch of State dept. agencies, front companies, and so forth to deliver the necessary funds to the corresponding Mexican government organizations, maybe cut some backroom deals, and then publicly claim victory. No one look closely at the sudden increase in foreign aid to Mexico for that fiscal year!"

That's right, the man is such a con artist he's not even going to work hard to execute the central plank of his xenophobic populist platform.
posted by Apocryphon at 4:28 PM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


Does anyone recall a comment that was posted in one of the election threads, regarding how we understand the bigotry of those close to us in a different way from those distant from us?

I think it's about how we tend to see the bigotry of familiar people as one piece in a larger whole and contextualize it (and I'm sure tend to excuse it away, on the flip side). I was thinking about that with respect to my reaction to American bigots vs. Indian bigots. I think because in this country, I don't have many friends who are bigoted, and have no extended family, I don't really run into people in real life (except unknowingly of course), who are bigoted and feel free to tell me about their bigotry. So for me Trump supporters seem very scary and crazy and ununderstandable. Whereas this recent Trump-Hindu event reminds me that I know plenty of bigots in India, some quite anti-Muslim. And while I'll still get into slanging matches with them on Facebook, I still run into them on social occasions and somehow survive. And their bigotry is of a kind that I understand. Not excuse, but I do get where they come from.

Which is a long-winded way of saying - if anyone could point me to that comment, I would be very grateful.
posted by peacheater at 4:30 PM on October 22, 2016 [6 favorites]


Trump in an interview with WLOS:
"I’ve always had the best temperament. My temperament is the thing that’s the best. You know they're spending hundreds of millions of dollars on tempeament. And I've always had a winning temperament. We want to win. Our country doesn't win anymore."
He goes on to discuss the Philippines, Obama campaigning, and competence, all in an answer to can the American people trust you.
posted by zachlipton at 4:32 PM on October 22, 2016 [8 favorites]


ardgedee: (overseas) betting companies are already calling Clinton the winner, and they have skin in that game.
Heh, I guessed without even looking which company that would be. They are very well-known for declaring winners and paying out early. They do it as a publicity stunt when one contender is well ahead, more than a sense that the race is truly over.
Why are you so sure it's a publicity stunt? They pay off the bets at a discount, hedging their losses. Of course it's possible that the expected outcome doesn't happen; other than getting your money earlier, or just sheer nervousness about losing a big payout, that's the only reason that anyone would take the deal.

But it makes sound financial sense, and does indicate that the bookmaker thinks the odds of (in this case) a Clinton victory are very high, and is willing to bet their own money on that prospect.
posted by msalt at 4:35 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


You know they're spending hundreds of millions of dollars on tempeament.

The Republicans are so fucked. They are so fucked. It's really kinda nice to see.
posted by valkane at 4:40 PM on October 22, 2016 [4 favorites]


I am going to go out there and say that Ivanka Trump has some pretty dresses. It is too bad that
Ivanka Trump is a surrogate of FakeCheeseHitler, because no way am I buying that shit. It's a weird feeling; a delight in knowing that I would totally buy this product that I would enjoy but for the political inclinations of the owner of the line.

I don't know; it's satisfying somehow to say, *oh pretty dress* wait *puts it back, vomits*. Then again, it wouldn't be fun if Trump were winning, so this is some weird punching down shit that is at the same time punching upward and if any of the Trumpers had shown maybe a presence of a soul I wouldn't feel so gleeful about metaphorical barfing all over their brand.
posted by angrycat at 4:41 PM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


"I’ve always had the best temperament. My temperament is the thing that’s the best. You know they're spending hundreds of millions of dollars on temperament. And I've always had a winning temperament. We want to win. Our country doesn't win anymore."

Trumptranslation: Yes to answer your question, the American people can trust my decision making ability. I have a the best temperament for making sound decisions. I repeat my temperament is top-notch and so good that Clinton needs to attack it. They are spending hundreds of millions on ads attacking it. They are wrong.
I want to win, I've always been about winning, just like America. America is about winning and lately our track record hasn't been great.
posted by Jalliah at 4:45 PM on October 22, 2016 [14 favorites]


Trump says the U.S. will pay for "the wall" and Mexico will reimburse us.
I always assumed he never really cared if he broke his promise to "make Mexico pay for it"; there is one and only one reason "Build That Wall" is the one part of his rant that has never changed. And he tipped his hand on it at the beginning, saying "my companies have built great buildings, we can build the wall". He intends to make himself the Prime Contractor and make a few billion dollars off the project, even if it never comes to more than a few miles in the desert.

He has three motivations for running for President: (1) to make the kind of Big Money he never succeeded at before by feeding off the Federal trough; (2) to make all his Legal Problems go away by Presidential Fiat; (3) to use his Massive Presidential Power to punish his enemies, real and imagined... it was an odd coincidence that one of the things that gave momentum to his campaign was his "Anti-Big-Bank" stances (since muted) which were primarily motivated by the fact that America's Big Banks didn't want to do business with him anymore. (And as I've said before, when you're too dirty for Wells Fargo to make money off of, you're DAMNED dirty.)
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:46 PM on October 22, 2016 [20 favorites]


I know it's awfully late to be asking this, but I don't get Trump's (attempted) carpenter joke at the Al Smith dinner. Surely he never worked as an actual carpenter. Is he equating developing real estate with carpentry? Am I missing something really obvious?
posted by HotToddy at 4:49 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


Jalliah ... how ... how do you DO that?
posted by kyrademon at 4:50 PM on October 22, 2016 [14 favorites]


Jesus was a carpenter. He was comparing himself to the son of the Christian God.
posted by AlexiaSky at 4:50 PM on October 22, 2016


Yes, but was Trump ever actually a carpenter? Ever? In his life?
posted by kyrademon at 4:52 PM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


I know Jesus was a carpenter. But he was equating himself to Jesus by saying he started out as a carpenter . . .?
posted by HotToddy at 4:52 PM on October 22, 2016


It is a megalomaniac joke.
posted by AlexiaSky at 4:53 PM on October 22, 2016 [4 favorites]


He was comparing himself to the son of the Christian God.
At some point last week, he said that the "media" of the day crucified Jesus. No word on when he is going to openly rant about ZOG.
posted by thelonius at 4:54 PM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


As part of the carpenter joke, he said: "True. Not for a long period of time but I was. For about three weeks."

So assuming he's not lying about that (and with him, that's not a safe assumption), his dad made him carry around a hammer for a couple weeks or something. No evidence that he "worked" as a carpenter, but he was briefly assigned to something resembling the role.
posted by zachlipton at 4:54 PM on October 22, 2016 [6 favorites]


Jalliah ... how ... how do you DO that?

Over the course of this election I seem to have learned to speak Trump.

It does freak me out.
posted by Jalliah at 4:54 PM on October 22, 2016 [29 favorites]


Here's the full text of the joke:

"I do recognize that I come into this event with a little bit of an advantage. I know that so many of you in the archdiocese already have a place in your heart for a guy who started out as a carpenter working for his father. I was a carpenter working for my father. True, not for a long period of time, about three weeks."
posted by HotToddy at 4:55 PM on October 22, 2016


The Sanhedrin trial was rigged, folks!
posted by tonycpsu at 4:55 PM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


That "lighter note" link is gold.
[Writing the State Of The Union]
OBAMA: So I'll say the state of the union is...
BIDEN: On fleek. Say it's on fleek.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 4:55 PM on October 22, 2016 [23 favorites]


Yeah, it occurred to me that maybe his dad made him do some scut work before loaning him the million dollars, just so he could say he worked his way up. I've just never heard anything about it before this joke.
posted by HotToddy at 4:56 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


If we win back the majority in the Senate it is with a much more progressive group than we've seen before. No Joe Leiberman and we have Bernie Sanders running the budget committee, not Max Bachus
posted by humanfont at 5:00 PM on October 22, 2016 [8 favorites]


Yeah, it occurred to me that maybe his dad made him do some scut work before loaning him the million dollars, just so he could say he worked his way up.
I don't think that being a carpenter is something you can just do for three weeks without any training, though. At the very least, you need to serve an apprenticeship. Maybe he was a carpenter's helper or something?

Just got back from GOTV dry run number 2. I feel like I need some sort of "today in election insanity" thing to let me know what happened when I was too busy to follow twitter. Although I guess that it's safe to assume that every day until election day the answer will probably be "Trump said something wacky and a woman came forward to accuse him of sexual assault."

Dry run number 2 seems to be going much better than dry run number 1, knock wood.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 5:01 PM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


Hey, you know the guy who does the big paintings of like the Founding Fathers with a single tear rolling down their faces as Obama and Bill Clinton roll a doobie with the Constitution and laugh while they watch a mass forced gay marriage ceremony? I wonder if he's making any Trump paintings. Trump driving the moneylenders out of the White House, media executives throwing dice for his garments, stuff like that.
posted by thelonius at 5:04 PM on October 22, 2016 [13 favorites]


Trump in an interview with WLOS

WeLOSt
posted by kirkaracha at 5:10 PM on October 22, 2016 [3 favorites]



Hey, you know the guy who does the big paintings of like the Founding Fathers with a single tear rolling down their faces as Obama and Bill Clinton roll a doobie with the Constitution and laugh while they watch a mass forced gay marriage ceremony? I wonder if he's making any Trump paintings. Trump driving the moneylenders out of the White House, media executives throwing dice for his garments, stuff like that.



Is this the guy? Jon McNaughton. If so for the low price of 20 bucks you can get lots of sketches of Trump with quotes!
posted by Jalliah at 5:11 PM on October 22, 2016 [6 favorites]


If so for the low price of 20 bucks you can get lots of sketches of Trump with quotes!

SAIT!
posted by cashman at 5:14 PM on October 22, 2016 [9 favorites]


The point of the joke is not literally that he did carpentry work for his dad, it's that he didn't do manual labor for his dad because his dad set him up with money so that he'd never have to do manual labor. He has probably never picked up a hammer. The carpenter part was necessary for setup since he was in a room full of people who believe in Jesus.

Also, his fingers are too short to allow him to use tools properly anyway, so WTF people?
posted by MoonOrb at 5:14 PM on October 22, 2016 [4 favorites]




Random pantsuit trivia: up to 1993 the dress code of the US Senate forbade women from wearing pants onto the senate floor; it was only skirts and dresses and pantyhose for senators and senate staffers.

I worked at EDS, climbing around supercomputers. I got a memo in 1998 telling me that I was supposed to wear a dress and heels and hose. I made HR come to the servers and said that if they tried to force me to wear a dress on open grate floors, or heels on same floor, that the lawsuit I would bring would be national news.

Two weeks later, EDS stopped having a gendered dress code. Three weeks later I was fired, but whatever.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 5:18 PM on October 22, 2016 [216 favorites]


Jalliah, that's the guy....check out "Patriotic->Political"
posted by thelonius at 5:19 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


But I flat-out do not understand people who actually say they hope the deplorables continue....

If it makes you feel better, recently, I was in a discussion on the Book of Face that was kicked off by a meme that was a picture of a bunch of Malheur Refuge types captioned with some sort of "we're going to overthrow the government"comment, followed by a picture of a soldier in full tactical gear captioned "awww, that's cute." Which really, is kind of how I think most people on the left feel about these nuts - that they've been talking violent insurrection for years but IRL they have not clue one (e.g. send snacks).

But the discussion went real damn serious real damn fast. Are these guys really going to try something like that? Will it manifest as attacks on government buildings, or lone nuts shooting the mailman, or what? Is this graph going to suddenly grow a shoulder when, after murdering some minority or another in the street, Aryan Nation types are surprised that the police aren't there to help 'em out? Nobody I've encountered wants any of that. So I don't think there is a strong "Go Deplorables!" faction on the left. OTOH, there have been a voices on the right who have been consistently ringing the dinner bell for every wannabe klansman and neonazi for, well, ever since the Southern Strategy was first a thing.

But here's the issue - the right has reveled in these guys support for decades and now that the dog whistles are actually audible to the human ear, the left is supposed to feel all bad and run over and put out the fire they started? First, how? There's not going to be any peace offering that's going to make these guys into rational centrists, or even stop Rush Limbaugh and his ilk from stoking their fears for two hours a day on AM radio. "Drizzle, Drazzle, Druzzle, Drome" is not going to cut it here. Second, what's in it for the left? The right has enjoyed these bastard's support for a decade or two now, and has used that to shove as much as possible down the nation's gullet when they could, or to be as obstructionist as possible when they couldn't. This really is a sow the wind, reap the whirlwind kind of situation. Is the right suddenly going to behave like adults again? Or is this just a ploy to get the left to spend their moment on top cleaning u the right's mess until they can get back into power and reboot the K Street Project?
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 5:22 PM on October 22, 2016 [29 favorites]


Has anyone used this electoral map app?
posted by cashman at 5:30 PM on October 22, 2016


To the point of whether Democrats hope the Republicans stay in chaos and in thrall to the 'deplorables':

I don't. Certainly, from a pragmatic political standpoint, I'd love for there to be a window during which Clinton (assuming she wins) can pass real legislation. So sure, if the current divisions help Clinton gain a mandate in the short term, I'm game.

But the longer term picture is better for America if the Republicans get their house in order. Not just for the abstraction of the country benefitting from a real opposition party. But because a Republican party that shuts out the voices of hatred will be better for those who are targets of the hatred.

A week ago, a friend of mine had a conversation with his parents that began with "Tell us why you're voting for Clinton" and ended with him being disowned. His answer was truthful: "When it gets right down to it, Hillary will protect my right to get married."

My friend had worked hard to try to keep the lines of communication open with his family - they being conservatives in the South, he being a gay escapee to the north who is now engaged to a wonderful guy. For the last couple years, I'd been happy that his family, despite being Christian conservatives, had at least continued to welcome him home and even met his partner.

But the election proved to be the flash point. My friend's family - these people now feel legitimized in their hatred and righteousness to the point that they can tell their own son that he is no longer welcome in the family. An America in which the Republican party can nominate Trump or the next fascist is an America in which those people can feel justified in enacting hatred against their own child. I do not want that for my country, no matter what the national political upsides for the Democratic Party.
posted by Chanther at 5:30 PM on October 22, 2016 [96 favorites]


corb part of what might underlie some of the sentiment about people continuing to be deplorable is the practical reality that meaningful change for virulent racism, sexism, and xenophobia isn't likely. These people will die before they will change.

Since we're stuck with these people anyway, it's fine with me if they weigh the Republican party down like an anchor and prevent it from being a viable political opposition to a Democratic presidency. If you think back to the last several presidencies, it feels to me as if the era of bipartisanship left in the 1990s and the Clinton and Obama years were marked by an increasing determination by the Republican party to uniformly oppose the presidential agenda. That's extremely frustrating! So, yeah, instead of feeling like our entire nation is being held hostage a few times a year when it's time to pass a budget funding the government or raising the debt ceiling or whatever, I can understand why there are plenty of folks who would like to see the adults be in charge for a while and just get stuff done. There will be plenty of opposition from the various factions within the Democratic coalition, anyway; Republican opposition hasn't served this function for decades. They've simply been obstructionist.
posted by MoonOrb at 5:31 PM on October 22, 2016 [11 favorites]


I remember Obama's first two years and the foot-dragging/compromises/cowardice of the Democratic majority was appalling.

Oh, come on. That's partly selective memory and partly Green Lantern theory of politics.

McConnell made his "one-term president" declaration in January 2009 and embarked upon a policy of filibustering everything. The Senate didn't get 60 Dems until July 2009, when Al Franken was sworn in. Ted Kennedy died in late August 2009. Ted Kirk was appointed as a replacement in September, and Scott Brown won the special election in January 2010. That was also the summer of Tea Party and birther types taking AR-15s to town hall meetings.

I won't dispute that the 2010 campaign was a mess, because it lacked a coherent national message to accommodate House Blue Dogs and other elected Dems who felt the need to run away from the party. And I won't dispute that the consequences of 2010 persist to this day. But I've never seen a credible alternative timeline that accommodated the red-state needs of Max Baucus, Kent Conrad, Blanche Lincoln and so on, or the preening (and spousal lobbying interests) of Joe Lieberman.

The carpenter part was necessary for setup since he was in a room full of people who believe in Jesus.

Well, Frederick Christ Trump was a carpenter, and I can easily imagine him sending Young Don out for a few weeks of "start working for me by doing the stuff I did", just as he sent Young Don to military school for discipline. Lots of daddy issues there.
posted by holgate at 5:38 PM on October 22, 2016 [24 favorites]


Has anyone used this electoral map app?

Just got it. What do you want to know? It corresponds roughly to the Princeton map, i.e., it has 341-197 and Princeton has 336-202.
posted by kingless at 5:44 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


"Today in West Virginia, a little boy about 8 years old told me he used to want to be president, but now he knows elections are rigged. 2016." --@JulieZauzmer

In lighter news, Buoyed by rising polls, Clinton shifts to a new target: the House and Senate:
Hillary Clinton is pouring $1 million into Indiana and Missouri in the campaign’s final weeks — not because the Democratic presidential nominee thinks she can carry those reliably Republican states, but because she believes that, with an extra push, Democrats can win the Senate and governors’ races there.

In Michigan, the Clinton campaign is propelling a late surge by Democratic state legislative candidates to regain their House majority. In parts of Maine, Nebraska, Virginia and other states, Clinton volunteers are touting Democratic congressional candidates in their phone calls and fliers to voters. And as Clinton rallied supporters across Pennsylvania on Saturday with running mate Tim Kaine, she touted Senate hopeful Katie McGinty and attacked her GOP opponent, Sen. Patrick J. Toomey, as beholden to presidential nominee Donald Trump.
posted by zachlipton at 5:46 PM on October 22, 2016 [11 favorites]


Who gives a crap what democrats wish tho?

This is hard to explain, but - I remember the 2004 election, back when I was a liberal. I hated GWB so much that I took my block leave from deployment, that I was supposed to use for R&R, and I used it as a Dem precinct captain going door to door. I was convinced the country was going to vote him out. All the volunteers met up at a bar, prepared to cheer. And - it didn't happen. The night and terrible concession morning were horrible. But we weren't just grieving that Bush would still be in power. The next day, one of my friends put it best: "I feel like half of America has just broken up with me."

Likewise, this election, I already feel like 35% of the electorate has broken up with me. I don't know which of the people around me just want to tell me I have to go back, as some people already have to my face. I know a lot of people feel like it was always there, but it was never, never nakedly on display like this. Like David French suddenly getting stuff talking about putting his seven year old daughter in a gas oven. This stuff was and is like a hidden cancer. I don't know who is cool with Trump increasing hatred for people like me, and other groups I empathize with, just to get a Supreme Court Justice on their side - but I know they are there, in the streets, in my supermarket, in my church.

I am hoping desperately that if there are Democrats excited to have Trump in public life, increasing racial hatred and violence by the day, as long as the Republicans choke on it, that they are a tiny minority, not like another secret 35% lying in wait or something. Because I don't know if I am strong enough to go out every day and keep my head up and dream of a better life if 70% of the country is willing to tolerate this just to get their policies through. I don't know if I can believe in the hope of America if the numbers are that high.

So yeah, I care. I care a lot. I'll keep fighting regardless of whether or not anyone is fighting with me or even just hoping with me that I can win and beat these bastards back - but it's not like my mind has somehow excised Democrats from America so somehow what they think can't hurt me.
posted by corb at 5:46 PM on October 22, 2016 [51 favorites]


for most Democrats, the Republican obstructionism and rapacious state-level governance over the last eight years was itself country-on-fire chaos.

Or if it's not actually already on fire, the gas tanks are leaking and all the "No Smoking" and "Caution: Hazardous Materials" signs have rusted and fallen down and there's some people leading crowds armed with matches towards the puddles talking up how pretty fire is.
posted by threeturtles at 5:46 PM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


Just got it. What do you want to know? It corresponds roughly to the Princeton map, i.e., it has 341-197 and Princeton has 336-202.

Wow, thank you. Is it worth $3? Is the lookback function from previous elections good? Is it something you'd recommend having?
posted by cashman at 5:47 PM on October 22, 2016


On the broader question of what to do with the deplorables:

Do McConnell and Ryan decide that they are necessary for midterm victory in 2018 and that they should be kept inside the tent pissing out, or that they have enough of a buffer in the Senate election rotation and the House gerrymander to push on without them, and create a better platform for 2020?

I think that's in the balance right now, and it could easily start to resemble Netanyahu's approach of shuffling factional alliances and policy positions just to get through the next election.

Do a Clinton White House and Dem leadership in Congress think it's politically expedient to keep treating the GOP leadership as accountable for the deplorables, in the hope that the 2018 GOP Senate primaries deliver up far-right candidates? Honestly, I don't think so: keeps things unstable, takes you too close to the "smarter demagogue" scenario. And things like immigration reform need to be addressed in 2017 before campaign season once again kicks in.
posted by holgate at 5:50 PM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


Jalliah, that's the guy....check out "Patriotic->Political"

that guy's a real asshole.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 6:00 PM on October 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


Is it worth $3? Is the lookback function from previous elections good? Is it something you'd recommend having?

I think so, but of course YMMV. The historical section goes back to 1789. Swipe l2r to go back in time and r2l to go forward, or use the list to go straight to whatever year you like. There's a day-by-day calendar for this year. Settings allow inclusion/exclusion of 3rd-party candidates.

I'm sure there's nothing in the app that you can't find for free online. Even so, it's convenient and I'm glad to have it. Thanks for mentioning it.
posted by kingless at 6:04 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]




SECOND, a hiring freeze on all federal employees to reduce federal workforce through attrition (exempting military, public safety, and public health);

Just to come back to how awful an idea this is, Carter and Reagan already tried it in the late 70s and early 80s. Here's what the GAO said about it:
Government-wide hiring freezes, regardless of how well they are managed, are not an effective means of controlling federal employment. The government-wide hiring freezes had little effect on federal employment levels and it is not known whether they saved money. Because they ignored individual agencies' missions, workload, and staffing requirement, these freezes disrupted agency operations and, in some cases, increased costs to the government. Since these hiring freezes disregarded agency workload requirements and did not cover all personnel resources used by the government, they created an incentive for managers to use alternative sources of labor. Any potential savings produced by these freezes would be partially or completely offset by increasing overtime, contracting with private firms, or using other than full-time permanent employees. Decreased debt and revenue collections also occurred as a result of hiring freezes. Government-wide hiring freezes bear no relationship to the workload that agencies are responsible for carrying out. However, GAO recognizes that there may be unique circumstances which may be beyond an individual agency's control. GAO believes employment reduction should be targeted where it can best be absorbed. Improved workforce planning and use of the budget as a control on employment, rather than arbitrary across-the-board hiring freezes, is a more effective way to insure that the level of personnel resources is consistent with program requirements.
In short, the departments that needed to hire couldn't and there's no evidence that this saved any money. If you want to reduce the size of the federal government, use the budget process to cut programs based on priorities instead of pretending you can issue a magic decree and solve all your problems. I'm sure it's great for federal contractors though.
posted by zachlipton at 6:09 PM on October 22, 2016 [51 favorites]


Hiring freezes are also terrible because you disproportionately lose your best people - they're the ones with good outside options, and they'll take them as their workplace becomes increasingly dysfunctional. You're left with mostly people who know they're not going to get a better deal elsewhere.
posted by une_heure_pleine at 6:12 PM on October 22, 2016 [70 favorites]


I am so excited! My younger son and I are going to see Hillary and Liz in NH on Monday! I knew I couldn't miss this. Anyone know if they will let me bring knitting needles into the arena? I have a feeling we're going to be waiting a lot.
posted by Biblio at 6:14 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


Clinton: ‘I don’t even think about responding’ to Trump anymore

"Using some of her most dismissive language of the campaign, Clinton said aboard her campaign plane on Saturday that, “I don’t even think about responding to him anymore” after their third and final debate earlier this week.

Leading in the polls both nationally and in battleground states, Clinton signaled that she and running mate Tim Kaine instead would be focused on making gains for congressional Democrats in the closing stretch of the campaign. Democrats hope to win back the majority in the Senate and some are even dreaming of taking control of the House despite what is currently a historically large Republican majority.

“As we’re traveling in these last 17 days we’re going to be emphasizing the importance of electing Democrats down the ballot,” Clinton said."
posted by chris24 at 6:15 PM on October 22, 2016 [26 favorites]


LIVE Stream: Hillary Clinton & Tim Kaine Rally in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania (10/22/2016) yt

Looks like a huge crowd. Good to see.
posted by dis_integration at 6:17 PM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


corb -- Personally, I want him ignored, forgotten, his stances repudiated, his ideas disregarded, his name little more than a trivial pursuit question. I want him to lose in a landslide. I want voting for him to be regarded as an embarrassment. I want his alt-right and hardcore racist and misogynist supporters to crawl back down the memory hole. I want them to be nothing but the punchlines to jokes.

I want this election to be such a historic shellacking that the Republican party takes a good hard look at itself and says, "Wow, OK, we cannot continue with the politics of xenophobia, of voter suppression, of obstructionism, of lies, of anti-intellectualism, of the delegitimization of experts, of the delegitimization our opponents, and of the delegitimization of the democratic process. It can win a primary, but the American people as a whole will no longer stand for it in a general election." If they can't or won't evolve beyond those evils, then I want the party to collapse, quickly and utterly, and a new, sane party to take its place. I want the entire strain of American nationalistic conspiracy-theory bullshit strongman politics that is Trumpism to be gone, gone and never to return.

That's what I want. I don't expect to get it, at least not on a timescale that isn't measured in decades. But I have NO INTEREST in seeing this virus in U.S. politics persist, even if the result would be short-term political gain for "my side". It's too dangerous and too frightening.
posted by kyrademon at 6:18 PM on October 22, 2016 [75 favorites]


Looks like a huge crowd.

On a chilly Sat. night.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:20 PM on October 22, 2016


I am hoping desperately that if there are Democrats excited to have Trump in public life, increasing racial hatred and violence by the day, as long as the Republicans choke on it, that they are a tiny minority, not like another secret 35% lying in wait or something.

Are there Dems actually expressing this opinion? Because every Hillary supporter I've talked to is terrified that there will be violence. I did GOTV today, and we were told to remind people to vote by mail so as to avoid any potential election day confrontations.
posted by Kitty Stardust at 6:23 PM on October 22, 2016 [34 favorites]


I'm watching Game 6 of the NLCS and they've shown at least two attack ads on Clinton. In California. Where if you volunteer for the Clinton campaign they ask you to call Georgia or travel to Nevada. Nice strategy. (Are the ads national?)

Attention Dodgers: Giving up a double every inning probably isn't going to get you to the World Series.
posted by kirkaracha at 6:25 PM on October 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


Those are national buys.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:26 PM on October 22, 2016


corb part of what might underlie some of the sentiment about people continuing to be deplorable is the practical reality that meaningful change for virulent racism, sexism, and xenophobia isn't likely. These people will die before they will change.

I'm not sure this is true. It may well be for some of the Trump voters, but I think like every other movement, the Deplorables have their squishy middle. I find it dangerous for everyone to hope they persist. I still hope they can be reached.

One of my Trump supporting high school friends is an adoptee from Korea who now lives in Indiana. She once took on a Klan rally single handed because she's so fiercely anti-racist. However, literally everyone in her small town is supporting Trump. The most progressive news source she has access to is Fox news. She doesn't believe Trump is racist because the people she loves wouldn't support a racist and everyone in her town loves her. She believes that HRC is a liar who will further break down the small town life she loves and shove her family even closer to the edge of uncertainty. She will vote for Trump no matter what comes out and no matter what happens because everyone around her is doing the same. She's extreme in one way because she's literally the only PoC I know supporting Trump, but she is very typical in others. We really need to strengthen the fourth estate and we need to start to pay attention to the damage that sensation-driven media is doing to our country.

I don't feel sorry for the Republican party-- they decided to dance with the Racism Devil and now he's taken the lead in the waltz, but I do feel sorry for the ordinary people swept away in the moment. For every hard core racist, I believe there is one other person next to him who just can't believe everyone around them can be so wrong.
posted by frumiousb at 6:28 PM on October 22, 2016 [21 favorites]


Yeaaaah, I am not seeing a lot of glee about Trump among the Democrats I'm talking to, and I am also deeply involved in GOTV. I'm seeing a lot of horror at the possibility of a Trump presidency, resolve to try to prevent it, fear about what this all means for the future of the country, and relief that it looks like we'll be able to avert armageddon, at least for now.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:31 PM on October 22, 2016 [13 favorites]


I can't organise from Hong Kong, but I am trying to do my bit by finally paying for subscriptions to a lot of publications I read online who are fighting the good fight. This much I can do. And also try to get my friends abroad to be sure to vote.

A desperate "please" to those of you in the US to GOTV among your friends! I'm hearing a depressing number of progressive voters on FB saying that they're relieved that "now I don't need to vote for a Clinton because Trump won't win anymore". We can't relax until it's over. Vote!
posted by frumiousb at 6:34 PM on October 22, 2016 [13 favorites]


For every hard core racist, I believe there is one other person next to him who just can't believe everyone around them can be so wrong.

That used to be me, more or less. Dogwhistles are really hard to point out without looking like a nutter, which is why they're so effective. Deplorables hear them, the more rational base just doesn't, and assume you're hearing voices.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:34 PM on October 22, 2016 [20 favorites]


Hill introduced!
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:36 PM on October 22, 2016


Hill just seems genuinely delighted by Tim all the time.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:38 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


Pence is like the guy who follows the circus parade and sweeps up all the elephant shit.
posted by kirkaracha at 6:42 PM on October 22, 2016 [8 favorites]


Yeah, my fantasy outcome is that Trump gets demolished in the vote (repudiating as best we can at this point his mesage), then Republicans move away from xenophobia and racism in the future to avoid a future landslide defeat, but that they still lose because the country prefers the ideas of the Democrats (on issues like the economy, healthcare, etc).

As others have said, the mere presence of Trump or any significant political faction espousing those kinds of views legitimizes hatred and violence in a way that is very dangerous. So I really hope the GOP does course correct away from that. I still want them to lose, obviously, because I'm a pretty solid Democrat, but a country where Democrats win but a significant minority party continues to advocate for racism and xenophobia is not a "win".
posted by thefoxgod at 6:44 PM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


I'm already on the Kaine Train. 2024!
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:47 PM on October 22, 2016 [6 favorites]


I'm afraid the deplorables are unreachable. Today two were interviewed on MSNBC and they cited Alex Jones and Project Veritas as reliable sources. Unless you learn in school how to evaluate the objectivity of a source, you will never be able to look at Alex Jones raving about demons and go, "hmm, that guy seems not ok." This is even true of slightly less deplorable people. I once heard a story on NPR where a leading climate change scientist used her absolute best pitch to convince a climate change denier that the whole thing wasn't a conspiracy made up by liberals. At the end of the pitch, the woman said something like, "I'm sure you believe what you're saying, but I don't believe you."

The deplorables need to be educated out of this nonsense, and a significant portion can't be because they're either too set in their ways or have adopted an almost cult-like mentality. The best we can do is improve child education and hope that the next generation is less susceptible to Breitbart, Fox News, and Alex Jones. But Republicans in general have been convinced by their own establishment to vote against their own interests for decades--union busting, crappy education reforms, tax breaks for the rich, crappy health care reforms, etc.
posted by xyzzy at 6:49 PM on October 22, 2016 [40 favorites]


I didn't know where else to post this, but I needed to share it with someone. posted by R.F.Simpson

I would hug you across the Internet were it possible--

We're gonna get through this thing & we're gonna win. Stand up for that kid & don't let the fucks get you down.

Glad you felt able to share that here. The personal stories about what's at stake in this deal for ordinary people are important stories to see and hear and know - it brings the immediacy of the situation home. Thanks.
posted by Devils Rancher at 6:52 PM on October 22, 2016 [17 favorites]


OK, Hill is up.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:53 PM on October 22, 2016


And it begins...

@brithume
Woman who has sex on camera for $ says Trump propositioned her. "This is not acceptable behavior." Please.
posted by chris24 at 6:55 PM on October 22, 2016 [13 favorites]


Fucking consent. How does it work?
posted by tonycpsu at 6:57 PM on October 22, 2016 [82 favorites]


Lots of national ads during the game. A TV doctor just told me to vote no on California prop 61. I'm in Tennessee.
Update: Now they've told me twice.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 6:59 PM on October 22, 2016 [4 favorites]


I'm watching Game 6 of the NLCS and they've shown at least two attack ads on Clinton. In California.

Same in Oregon. And tired Benghazi ads, too. I guess the ads are national but guess what else?

The game is on Fox Sports 1. So the money's going to Rupert Murdoch. My guess is, some campaign strategiests are setting up their post-Trump employment prospects.
posted by msalt at 6:59 PM on October 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


"Some people are just poor losers when they look at those debates" [real, Hillary]
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:00 PM on October 22, 2016


Jessica Drake is so brave to put herself out there. They're going to come at her with everything they have.
posted by frumiousb at 7:02 PM on October 22, 2016 [17 favorites]


Lots of national ads during the game. A TV doctor just told me to vote no on California prop 61. I'm in Tennessee.

Yeah, they just have to dump money at this point.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:02 PM on October 22, 2016


> @brithume Woman who has sex on camera for $ says Trump propositioned her. "This is not acceptable behavior." Please.

Dear Brit Hume: She does a more honorable and honest job than you do, and deserves far more respect. Please go the fuck away.
posted by rtha at 7:02 PM on October 22, 2016 [72 favorites]


Prop 61 is the one to control drug prices in California. Of course, Big Pharma is in bed with Fox and the MLB.
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:03 PM on October 22, 2016


Woman who has sex on camera for $ says Trump propositioned her. "This is not acceptable behavior." Please.

You'd think that the die-hard capitalists would at least understand the notion that selling something is explicitly NOT an offer to give it away for free. It's the OPPOSITE of an offer to give it away for free. And they all quite explicitly support the right for businesses to turn away customers who're willing and able to pay, for any reason, for example to avoid selling wedding cakes to queer people. But suddenly we're talking about a woman and her actual bodily integrity and agency and not just a damn cake, well, her, she is obligated to make herself available to anybody who wants her, apparently. Funny thing, that.
posted by Sequence at 7:07 PM on October 22, 2016 [135 favorites]


Pence is like the guy who follows the circus parade and sweeps up all the elephant shit.

That would be honest labor. But Pence is advocating that women seeking abortions be subjected to transvaginal ultrasound wands.
posted by sebastienbailard at 7:09 PM on October 22, 2016 [7 favorites]


So. I am going to vote. The Trump yard-signs have been most helpful in identifying downticket candidates I should not be voting for.

After I go to vote, in my sleepy little seaside New England town, I will either be in a fist fight or be shot or arrested or all three.

There's this asshole who shows up for every election with a drill-rifle, a mock M1-A1 Garand. It has a little orange bit at the muzzle to indicate it's a fake. Most folks won't know it's a fake, and I have seen my fellow townspeople nope the fuck out of there at a huge, hairy biker-dude with an olive-drab shovel-head Harley and that goddamn fake battle-rifle on election day.

This time, I'm with her, voting in a credible D at the top spot of the ballot, and then I will march out and ask him to stow the gun out of sight.

If he refuses? I'm huger and hairier. I will bust that drill rifle into bits and pieces on the spot like Pete Townshend. I'll stop when I'm knocked out, shot or arrested.

I am completely sick of their shit. It's impacting my kid's education and the goddamn library, because they bring awful people to scare away reasonable voters.

There's a bit of time between then and now, and I am sure I will talk myself down, but on election day, check the headlines. I will be headlining them by smashing a realistic-looking drill rifle to shit.
posted by Slap*Happy at 7:09 PM on October 22, 2016 [102 favorites]


I'm going to draw the wrath of the mods (or at least an eyeroll) by dredging up a discussion from the previous thread. Please indulge me (or not), but I didn't get to read the discussion until after it had been shut down by the mods, and I would respectfully submit that there's still something to be said.

Back in March when Nancy Reagan died, I remember seeing expressions of horror that Hillary Clinton had made that ill-advised statement about Nancy Reagan caring about AIDS issues. Clearly, anyone who had watched what the Reagan administration did during the AIDS crisis would have been horrified at that notion. So, Hillary Clinton tried to say something positive about Nancy Reagan, and it backfired. Good intentions, horrible results.

I heard about the whole sordid affair via Peter Staley's Facebook page. He was and is a big Hillary Clinton supporter, but the Reagan thing really shook him. Facebook search functions suck, so I can't quote him directly, but basically he was freaked out that she would say something like that. He also quoted Larry Kramer, another AIDS activist, to much the same effect. When the Clinton campaign issued their apologia, Staley and the other AIDS activists took it as a positive sign, but still didn't think it was enough.

Here's the thing though: The Clinton campaign didn't just tweet out a mea culpa. They set up a meeting with AIDS/HIV activists, and Clinton herself attended and engaged. I honestly don't care who crafted the initial statement. Whether it came from Clinton's own hand (keyboard), or was the result of a consensus response to the community, I take it at face value. She was genuinely contrite about the initial "gaff", and was sincerely apologelic.
posted by Surely This at 7:10 PM on October 22, 2016 [28 favorites]


She's gotten to be a way more effective speaker in the last few months. The SNL character is lagging there.

She also clearly appreciates Tim's chops. (Seriously, find me a picture where she's happier)

This is a person who's on top of her game, knows there are betters, and knows she just hired him.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:12 PM on October 22, 2016 [6 favorites]


Just to come back to how awful an idea this is, Carter and Reagan already tried it in the late 70s and early 80s

We've also had de facto hiring freezes for long stints under Obama (not because of him) as a result of the sequester and constant continuing resolutions.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 7:13 PM on October 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


Any scientists in this thread who relies on NIH funding?

Zero data and candidate inconsistency makes it difficult to make projections, but any feelings for what might happen to science funding if each candidate?
posted by porpoise at 7:15 PM on October 22, 2016 [4 favorites]


Hillary is just killing it here.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:16 PM on October 22, 2016


"Its a crossroads election, because there are no more different visions than me and Donald Trump's."

47246 to get involved...
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:19 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


Lots of national ads during the game. A TV doctor just told me to vote no on California prop 61. I'm in Tennessee.

Yeah, they just have to dump money at this point.


Can you elaborate? I understand the idea of spending everything you've got for the end of the race, but are there really no better ways to target your actual voters?
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 7:19 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


Prop 61 is the one to control drug prices in California. Of course, Big Pharma is in bed with Fox and the MLB.

You know, if big pharma could get a guarantee that formularies would include new clinically proven drug in a field were current standard of treatment is palliative care they might actually go for some level of price control. Depressing, no? (Meetings with clinicians were a lot more enjoyable.)
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 7:20 PM on October 22, 2016


We've also had de facto hiring freezes for long stints under Obama (not because of him) as a result of the sequester and constant continuing resolutions.

I read a book recently which was interviewing conservatives in the US South, and one of the questions they asked their subjects was what percentage of people in the US they thought worked for the federal government. The answers were uniformly above 30% and many people thought it was more like 40% of workers who work at the federal level. (the truth is something like 1.9%). There also appeared to be a great deal of anger that these federal government workers had much better job protection and pension than the people in the "free market". So I suppose the nonsense about hiring freezes isn't about hiring freezes-- it's playing into the fears that the political class is huge, and has access to protections not available to all, and is essentially only protecting itself in national elections. A kind of coded shout out which will sincerely play very well to the target audience.
posted by frumiousb at 7:22 PM on October 22, 2016 [10 favorites]


Can you elaborate? I understand the idea of spending everything you've got for the end of the race, but are there really no better ways to target your actual voters?

You have no idea what's in play at this point. Do a national ad.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:22 PM on October 22, 2016


I started working for the I.R.S. as a tax examiner; I was there during the Reagan years and benefitted directly from the hiring freeze. PCs were infiltrating the organization and nobody knew what to do with them. Thanks to Reagan they couldn't hire anyone who did. There was a scramble to turn "smart white boys" into technicians. I was one of them. I ended up having a long and profitable career in IT, but every bit of training I received was paid for by the organization and everything I learned was learned just in time.
posted by teirnon at 7:24 PM on October 22, 2016 [11 favorites]


Can you elaborate? I understand the idea of spending everything you've got for the end of the race, but are there really no better ways to target your actual voters?

This series has had massive ratings. I bet more CA residents are watching this than anything else right now, and cable networks don't do local ads, so...
posted by dirigibleman at 7:28 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]






> Can you elaborate? I understand the idea of spending everything you've got for the end of the race, but are there really no better ways to target your actual voters?


For California, which is so huge it probably has two if not three distinct TV markets for ad buys, it might actually be easier to just buy a national spot for a program that you know is playing in all states if you have the cash to burn, than trying to buy spots for the same add in all the different markets. Or just that they couldn't get any local spots last minute and had the money to go national instead.
posted by mrzarquon at 7:30 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


@fuckBritHume
Man who lies for money on camera calls someone else a whore, fails Irony 101. [fake]
posted by spitbull at 7:31 PM on October 22, 2016 [12 favorites]


...on election day, check the headlines. I will be headlining them by smashing a realistic-looking drill rifle to shit.

Slap*happy, please do not initiate violence at a polling place. In addition to all the usual arguments against violence, you may prevent people from voting.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 7:32 PM on October 22, 2016 [12 favorites]


There's this asshole who shows up for every election with a drill-rifle, a mock M1-A1 Garand. It has a little orange bit at the muzzle to indicate it's a fake. Most folks won't know it's a fake, and I have seen my fellow townspeople nope the fuck out of there at a huge, hairy biker-dude with an olive-drab shovel-head Harley and that goddamn fake battle-rifle on election day.

Stand next to him with a big sign that says 'Don't mind him, he's trying to intimidate you with a fake gun'. And then never engage with him.
posted by BlueDuke at 7:34 PM on October 22, 2016 [121 favorites]


Yeah, don't get eponysterical. We want you here with us. Enjoy the fall air, enjoy your vote, you'll feel better when you've done your part in the booth.
posted by Countess Elena at 7:35 PM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


Any scientists in this thread who relies on NIH funding?


I am 100% NIH funded. My 5 year competitive renewal is next year. I'm not the slightest bit worried if HRC is elected, she has already given her plan for increased funding in my area. Also, I'm pretty sure that the novel work we're doing is exactly what they are looking to fund and expand. If DJT had a chance, I'd be looking for something new very quickly.
posted by Sophie1 at 7:36 PM on October 22, 2016 [13 favorites]


Page Six: Trump advisers went to strip club night before last debate
Sources said that Trump campaign senior communications adviser Jason Miller — along with female colleagues including senior adviser and surrogate A.J. Delgado and deputy communications director Jessica Ditto — went with several members of the media from networks, including CNN, NBC and ABC, to Sapphire Las Vegas Strip Club before the big night. With “70,000 square feet of topless entertainment and serving the finest variety of cocktails,” Sin City’s Sapphire bills itself as the largest strip club in the world.

The group that went out with the Trump aides included CNN producer Noah Gray, NBC News reporter Anthony Terrell and a “camerman” from ABC News, sources said. Before the field trip with the media, Miller tweeted, “Yet more evidence of a media-rigged election,” with a link about WikiLeaks and Clinton.
posted by acidic at 7:38 PM on October 22, 2016 [31 favorites]


Slap*happy, please do not initiate violence at a polling place.

This is why I love Metafilter! OK. I'll do theft instead. I'll pick it up and take it with me as I leave, as casual as you please. Much better plan.

I'll dump it in the bay while strolling on the very nice bike-and-pedestrian-path over the bridge halfway between here and the Island, provided I am allowed to make it that far.
posted by Slap*Happy at 7:40 PM on October 22, 2016 [6 favorites]


I know this is not a novel sentiment, but seriously, fuck those hypocrites.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:40 PM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


Why would these tv news purple think it's a good idea to go to a strip club with Trump campaign staffers? Are they...stupid?
posted by medusa at 7:40 PM on October 22, 2016 [7 favorites]


> This time, I'm with her, voting in a credible D at the top spot of the ballot, and then I will march out and ask him to stow the gun out of sight.

Slap*Happy, please make yourself a big ole sign that says THIS GUN IS FAKE AND THIS MAN IS HERE TO INTIMIDATE YOU OUT OF EXERCISING YOUR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS and stand near him (out of punching range. Please do not speak to him or look at him or initiate any contact with him). And before you do this, call your local election board or even your state's National Lawyers Guild and ask them about the process for reporting interference with voters.
posted by rtha at 7:41 PM on October 22, 2016 [40 favorites]


> Why would these tv news purple think it's a good idea to go to a strip club with Trump campaign staffers? Are they...stupid?


Yes?
posted by mrzarquon at 7:42 PM on October 22, 2016 [9 favorites]


Free Booze is a hell of a drug.
posted by mikelieman at 7:43 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


Stand next to him with a big sign that says 'Don't mind him, he's trying to intimidate you with a fake gun'. And then never engage with him.

Yeah, this is a much better idea. A struggle or a fight or destruction of property is fun for people like that, plus he gets to play the victim. Public ridicule for carrying a child's toy around as if it were real, that's the kind of thing that'll sting for years.
posted by No-sword at 7:43 PM on October 22, 2016 [18 favorites]


Yes?

I mean, right?
posted by medusa at 7:44 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


> This series has had massive ratings. I bet more CA residents are watching this than anything else right now, and cable networks don't do local ads, so...

BEAT L.A.!!!

/Giants fan
posted by rtha at 7:44 PM on October 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


corb: But I flat-out do not understand people who actually say they hope the deplorables continue, or they hope they continue to make up 25% of the GOP, because if the deplorables as they stand become an open, permanent part of American politics, that isn't moderate chaos, that's country-on-fire chaos, resurgence-of-KKK chaos, horrible-for-everyone chaos.

[...]

I am hoping desperately that if there are Democrats excited to have Trump in public life, increasing racial hatred and violence by the day, as long as the Republicans choke on it, that they are a tiny minority, not like another secret 35% lying in wait or something. Because I don't know if I am strong enough to go out every day and keep my head up and dream of a better life if 70% of the country is willing to tolerate this...

Firstly, I want to make it clear that I'm not trying to come at you, and I think I understand your feeling of -- despondency? Is that a fair word to use? about the possibility that significant numbers of liberals/Democrats are just pretty happy to watch the GOP burn and damn the consequences for both non-Deplorable GOPers and for minorities and others who are threatened by the open Trumpism that's been unleashed.

That being said: You said that "they hope the Deplorables continue". My view is that hope has not much to do with it; there's a significant bloc of voters in this country that genuinely hold these views and they seem to be relatively impervious to any appeal to logic, reason, faith, emotion, authority, justice, loving-kindness or shared humanity as far as I can see [1]. So the question is, how can we have a functional politics in this situation?

Percentages are important here, precisely because our system of government distributes authority by a series of winner-take-all elections -- somewhat roughly speaking, a winner-take-all election for President [2]; 100 elections for the upper house; 435 elections for the lower house, etc.

If Deplorables made up, say, 5-10% of the population, we could safely ignore them. They'd maybe be marginally relevant behind the scenes or in House races in specific regions, but in order for them to significantly influence policy they would need to be able to win quite a lot of non-Deplorables to their cause. Even if they all gravitated to one political party, they would still only make up 10-20% of the party [3].

But the Deplorables are more like 27% (I think it’s more like 20%, actually, but the exact number isn’t necessary for my argument). The key is, it’s enough for them to control one party if
(a) the vast majority participate in one party and
(b) they are able to exercise a veto over the actions of the entire party.
For most of modern (say, post-WWII) history, these two conditions haven’t obtained. They transitioned from the Democratic Party to the Republican Party over the course of the 60s and 70s, but even as they consolidated in the GOP, traditional Republican elites were able to maintain control of the party by pandering just enough to them (and to the reactionary Christian right) to get their votes, while not actively moving the country backwards on race and gender equality issues. [4] Or to put it more bluntly, there were always enough people in the GOP who didn’t agree with the Deplorables, or who understood that open Deplorability was electoral suicide, to keep them in check.

George W. Bush turned the lights out on this political era inaugurated by Richard Nixon. I think he came into office genuinely wanting to build a durable, “compassionate conservative” permanent majority that could continue to bring Latinos and Catholics into the Republican fold. But the failures of the Iraq War, the Hurricane Katrina disaster and (in ’07) the defeat of comprehensive immigration reform led to consecutive Democratic victories in ’06 and ’08. The Deplorables were now all stranded in opposition. It’s not a coincidence that this emerging Democratic majority coalition was led by the first female Speaker of the House and the first African-American president.

From there, the trend lines lead directly to a Donald Trump. With each passing year, more and more moderates have walked away from the Republican Party; traditional elites were replaced by hardline ideologues (a process that began in 1994, actually), and even that cohort of ideologues (Boehner, Ryan) have now been flanked by leaders who are tossing aside the dogwhistles of yesteryear to echo more fully the bellowing of their Deplorable base. The only possible opposition in the GOP, the Evangelical wing, has now been neutered, too. How long will the GOP take to come back now? And can the country, now fully aware that its visor shields the gaze of fascism, gallantly afford to step back and to let the once-great Party of Lincoln grope to its feet?

The Republican Party is now the party of fascists and fascist-enablers. I don’t know what happens next, but I believe we need a government of national unity, and that means a Democratic victory that’s as broad and deep and durable as is possible.

[1] My philosophical and religious presuppositions don't actually allow me to consider the 'deplorables' utterly beyond the reach of grace; but I have to confess that I don't know how to make that happen.

[2] I know, I know. I don't need to mansplain the Electoral College here, ok? :)

[3] Assuming Duverger’s Law -- that winner-take-all electoral democracies system tend toward a two-party system.

[4] Though from 1968 on, this bloc was often able to stop forward progress on these issues by legislative means; most of the progress we’ve seen since then came through the courts and through the typically slower processes of cultural change.

[5] The first being the election of 1860.

posted by tivalasvegas at 7:47 PM on October 22, 2016 [35 favorites]


Public ridicule for carrying a child's toy around as if it were real, that's the kind of thing that'll sting for years.

Yesssssssss....

"FAKE GUN. CRAP HARLEY, WORSE PAINT. VOTE D AND VOTE FOR A LIBRARY OPEN ON SATURDAY."
posted by Slap*Happy at 7:47 PM on October 22, 2016 [15 favorites]


Yeah, the game that could send the Cubs to the WS or keep the Dodgers alive is going to get a big CA audience and a big national audience. (It's not going directly to Murdoch, is it? It's going to cable providers like -- oh noes! -- Comcast who pay a fixed fee to carry Fox Sports 1. Please correct me if you know this stuff.)

I'm more curious if there are national buys during SNL.

Picking up on what happens to the deplorables. If you go with the cult model, which I think applies here, then some will be revising their Twitter bios and names, but others will double down. There'll also be lots of direct blame at the institutional GOP leadership, even though it's state and local parties who are carrying the GOTV load because Trump couldn't be bothered. Then there'll be those who abandon Fox News for Breitbart and InfoWars and maybe a hypothetical TrumpTV.

That possibly gives the institutional GOP the space to say "you hate us even though we carried most of the burden for Trump, so STFU."

That's where it gets really interesting, because do Jones and the head Breitbarters sign on with Trump, knowing exactly what he is in terms of offloading the risk on joint ventures and stiffing the people who sign on with him?
posted by holgate at 7:48 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


This is why I love Metafilter! OK. I'll do theft instead.

I'm hoping to bargain you down to jaywalking.

This is why we have real/fake tags, people.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 7:50 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


For California, which is so huge it probably has two if not three distinct TV markets for ad buys
Los Angeles, 5.5milion TV households; San Francisco-Oakland-San Jose, 2.4million; Sacramento-Stockton-Modesto, 1.2million; San Diego, 1million and seven other "TV markets" separate enough to have their own affiliates for ABC, CBS, Fox and NBC. California has 12% of the American population (38 million of 318 million). A lot of audience split up a lot of ways. Considering that well over half the audience of any political TV spot is not going to vote (underage, non-citizens, apathetic), it's not that bad a deal for California (and Big Pharma runs a LOT of TV spots for products 90% of the audience never use). For other states, less so. Tell me if you see something for a proposition in North Dakota.
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:51 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


Actually, "FAKE BIKER, FAKE GUN, VOTE FOR A LIBRARY OPEN ON SATURDAY" on cheap poster-board may well do the trick.
posted by Slap*Happy at 7:52 PM on October 22, 2016 [26 favorites]


There are fireworks going off across Chicago right now.

Not to tempt fate, but oddly on topic: historically years in which the Cubs went to the World Series were also not good years for fascists....
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:52 PM on October 22, 2016 [30 favorites]


What happens in Vegas, stays on the historical record of the Hillary Clinton landslide.

This plays into both sides' narratives, kinda. (Sheesh.) What an election this has been. Here's hoping the next one is boring and normal.
posted by notyou at 7:53 PM on October 22, 2016


You've got to be rooting for Chicago. The last time they won a WS, women couldn't vote. It's just fitting that their next one will be the week before we elect a woman to the White House, right?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:53 PM on October 22, 2016 [7 favorites]


Not to tempt fate, but oddly on topic: historically years in which the Cubs went to the World Series were also not good years for fascists....

I'm pretty sure the sample size is too small to be statistically significant. My dad has been a big Cubs fan for a least fifty years. I expressed concern that them actually going to the World Series might ruin the whole essence of Cubbie fandom. He seems to have made peace with that risk.
posted by msalt at 7:54 PM on October 22, 2016 [6 favorites]


And you have to be rooting against the Cleveland Racist Images, no matter how much a swing state Ohio is.
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:56 PM on October 22, 2016 [8 favorites]


Who put this baseball in my politics?
posted by medusa at 7:57 PM on October 22, 2016 [9 favorites]


Also Cleveland already got an amazing championship this year. Go Chicago!
posted by lalex at 7:57 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


Last baseball derail from me, via Twitter: Its been 108 years since Cubs won the World Series. 108 years before that, Jefferson defeated Adams to become our third President.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:58 PM on October 22, 2016 [10 favorites]


expressed concern that them actually going to the World Series might ruin the whole essence of Cubbie fandom. He seems to have made peace with that risk.

Red Sox fan here. Trust me, it doesn't. At least not enough to matter.
posted by anastasiav at 8:00 PM on October 22, 2016 [13 favorites]


Yeah, the game that could send the Cubs to the WS or keep the Dodgers alive is going to get a big CA audience and a big national audience.

California D +25%
Illinois D +17%

I don't know that I'd have plowed a lot of money into the Dodgers-Cubs game.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 8:01 PM on October 22, 2016


Adorable pic of Hillary watching the Cubs win!

@NickMerrill
That look when you cap off a day on the trail by watching the @Cubs cement their trip to the #WorldSeries. #FlyTheW pic.twitter.com/94KMWpKHwe
posted by acidic at 8:06 PM on October 22, 2016 [30 favorites]


Theo vs. Tito. As a Sawx die-hard, this is very cool.

I want them both back.
posted by Slap*Happy at 8:15 PM on October 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


Another fun Hillary picture
posted by rhizome at 8:15 PM on October 22, 2016


I don't know that I'd have plowed a lot of money into the Dodgers-Cubs game.

The audience wanting to see if the Cubs won the pennant is... not confined to IL and CA. And we're also talking about some CA-specific ads for propositions that have nothing to do with the horserace.

The Cubs' owners are the Ricketts family which includes the GOP governor of Nebraska (though not his wife) and other prominent donors to the GOP and Trump. On the other hand, Trump said earlier this year that the Cubs sucked when various Ricketts family members were funding other GOP primary candidates. "Big league team owners mega-rich political donors" is a dog-bites-man story (regardless of party) so, anyway, yay Cubs fans who are not mega-rich Republicans.
posted by holgate at 8:20 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


I don't know that I'd have plowed a lot of money into the Dodgers-Cubs game.

Well they're talking about a CA prop so it's probably one of the better ones.
posted by Talez at 8:21 PM on October 22, 2016


"Red Sox fan here. Trust me, it doesn't. At least not enough to matter."

Mariners fan here would like to verify that someday.

Anyway. On topic. I voted this week! I moved to Georgia less than a month ago, immediately registered, and did early voting this week. I think this is the proudest and most excited I have been about voting since my very first election [mumble] years ago. I even got a cute little peach sticker that says "I'm a Georgia Voter."

I just moved away from Seattle, so I don't get to blacken Tim Eyman's eyes metaphorically via my votes any more... but I may get to help swing a red state to blue, which is probably more satisfying. ;) Washingtonians, fight the good fight for me... Georgians, let's turn this place deep blue!
posted by litlnemo at 8:28 PM on October 22, 2016 [6 favorites]


Tom Hanks as Chris Wallace in another debate SNL cold open.
posted by chris24 at 8:30 PM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


Tom Hanks as Chris Wallace for the cold open of SNL.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:31 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


NBC Chicago is delaying SNL to show the Cubs celebration. They promise to show the episode in its entirety, I'm happy to be able to see both!
posted by slmorri at 8:32 PM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


along with female colleagues including senior adviser and surrogate A.J. Delgado and deputy communications director Jessica Ditto — went with several members of the media from networks, including CNN, NBC and ABC, to Sapphire Las Vegas Strip Club before the big night. With “70,000 square feet of topless entertainment and serving the finest variety of cocktails,” Sin City’s Sapphire bills itself as the largest strip club in the world.


I'm having one of those moments of *aren't those women colleagues freaked out by this shit? can they not get better jobs* moments that I've had frequently w/r/t the Trump campaign. I mean, I don't have any anger at topless bars, really, but having to work in that highly sexualized environment? Ugh. Phhht.
posted by angrycat at 8:35 PM on October 22, 2016 [6 favorites]


Hey, I can be delighted by the dismantling of the political party that has targeted me and my family my entire life AND terrified by the fast-zombie horror that is doing the dismantling AND incredibly sad for all the people being hurt by said fast-zombie horror, all at the same time, because I am a complex human person and I contain multitudes.

And I'm damn well going to cling to any shitty little excuse for a silver lining I can find in 2016.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:40 PM on October 22, 2016 [17 favorites]


SNL cold open focuses on the third debate. Baldwin doubles down on the sniffles and gets some truly glurgy ones in.
posted by mochapickle at 8:40 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


roomthreeseventeen: “Last baseball derail from me, via Twitter: Its been 108 years since Cubs won the World Series. 108 years before that, Jefferson defeated Adams to become our third President.”
“Direct quote from Nostradamus: "When the small bears from the windy place take the flag, woe unto all, for the end is nigh." #EndTimes”— AWhitneyBrown (@TheWhitneyBrown) October 12, 2016
posted by ob1quixote at 8:51 PM on October 22, 2016 [10 favorites]


Mediaite has the SNL Cold Open video.

While you're there, read 'You Look Like a Woman!’: Mob of Trump Supporters Hurls Abuse at CNN’s Jim Acosta. Sopan Deb would like to be clear that these are grown adults yelling these kinds of insults.
posted by zachlipton at 8:54 PM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


I wonder if Clinton's reference to "disagreeing without being disagreeable" was a callout to the Suzette Haden Elgin book.
posted by Lexica at 8:56 PM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


I think the Black Jeopardy skit was better (and cleverer) than the cold open.
posted by holgate at 8:57 PM on October 22, 2016 [10 favorites]


"Yeah, it's something, huh? Who would've thought? 100 to 1 shot! I wish I could go back to the beginning of the season, and put some money on the Cubs."
posted by leotrotsky at 9:05 PM on October 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


One thing that is giving me hope is that Obama has quietly announced his post-Presidential focus will be a 50 State response to take back states which Democrats have mostly given up on in anticipation of 2020 and drawing new boundaries. Clinton's already included nationwide automatic voter registration as one of her planks, and an anti-gerrymandering move would dovetail perfectly with that.

What gives me hope is that Obama will be at the head, because he's demonstrated numerous times that he is a centrist, and what a "fix the voting system" project needs is a real centrist who won't try to weight the voting for any side, but rather to weight it toward Truth. To make is a true reflection of the country. Democrats have as much a history of gerrymandering as Republicans, but if we can come up with an algorithmic means of dividing up the country so that it resists gerrymandering, than maybe we can re-enfranchise the half of the population who have given up on voting.

I can't see Republicans, as they are now, cooperating with that. I hope it changes.
posted by Deoridhe at 9:08 PM on October 22, 2016 [28 favorites]


Why would these tv news purple think it's a good idea to go to a strip club with Trump campaign staffers? Are they...stupid?

Next thing you know, the tv news people will be caught going to a furniture store with Trump campaign staffers.
posted by juiceCake at 9:10 PM on October 22, 2016 [11 favorites]


Free Booze is a hell of a drug.

I'm sure there's a weird Stockholm Syndrome thing between certain campaign people and news people who've been on the Trump beat for a year -- especially crew, producers, etc. -- or it's like the wolf and the dog in the cartoon. Or Dog Day Afternoon. Stupid, but perhaps predictably stupid?
posted by holgate at 9:14 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]



Thank you, MeFites, for being a clear stream in year of incredible hubris.

My post upthread got me thinking how I got from the political environment I was raised to this point where it looks as if the first female president is going to be elected. I feel compelled to share as I am realizing how pivotal for all of us. And to honor one woman who I was raised to believe was evil.

My post upthread tells I was raised in a "pro-life" family. In the 70's We would march on the state capitol in Sacramento every January 22, picket local Planned Parenthood events, have booths at county fairs and offer last second counsuling to women about to have an abortion. (The Catholic Charities office was next door to the local abortion clnic. My mom would have a sandwich board outside offering her services every Tuesday evening)

The de facto feminist and Planned Parenthood leader at that time was a woman named Beverly Fitch McCarthy. She was the focus of our picketing and invective. She was our Hillary

The first major crack came in 1982. I was 19. Gore Vidal's run for U.S. Senate broke the trance. First time I heard truth being spoken to power and that my "questioning" was being a met by a politician.

In 1983, I became friends with a vietnam vet at a local club. He was a guy's guy. Sweet man. One night he invited my best friend and I to dinner. They were late and apologize. They were members of the board for the local Planned Parenthood and the meeting had run late. It was a Studs Turkel moment. "Wait. These people aren't evil. I like them"

My first election was 1984. I voted for Reagan. I tipped more in 1986 via an excellent sociology class at UCLA and a relationship with an activist actress.

I graduated with a BA in history from UCLA in 1987. In 1988, a cycling accident and major head injuries was the final wake-up call. I broke with my family, left the church, dropped out, became a yogi and spent the next 3-4 years studying progressive and feminist history and theory.

In 2000, I went "dark" politically. I was fed up with my democratic friends as the tone of their argument against my thoughts on how the Nader could be recognized and not at the expense of Gore. I vowed never to tell an adult who I voted for. Only children if they asked as they were the ones who deserved to know. I voted because I still believed it is a powerful act. Republicans thought I was Republican. Democrats thought I was Democrat.

This cycle I outed myself. I said I was voting the court and not the candidate. The constitution and not the ideology. This meant Clinton as it would be a Democratic president that would appoint the liberal judges to keep the the government as close to center as possible based on the tendency for governors/house go RED, senate/prez go Blue.

The RNC sickened me. While raised in Birch/Tea Party mindset and having separated from it long ago. There was also the Republicanism I knew when I was 6 years old. The party that started with Lincoln and was the party of my hero, Teddy Roosevelt. It was sad and embarrassing.

Since my accident in 88' I have had good, strong woman as partners. I stood by 2 of them as they went through cancer. One made it. One didn't. I honestly say that I improved with each relationship, became more open, less angry and absolute, a better partner and a better man.

I read this thread last night. There was a post about HRC's team masterful use of symbology that harkened to suffragette history and along with overt references to the Catholic Church. Even if one is a lapsed catholic, ritual and symbology still have great meaning. I thought of Beverly Fitch McCarthy, how I and my family treated her. I googled her. I found her page on the Veterans Feminists of America. She is still alive, 81 YO, living in the same town and is as vibrant and as active as ever. It became crystal clear. This woman fought in the trenches for 60 years in a conservative city for woman's rights. I and my family were Trump to her Hilary Clinton.She was one in a long list of fighters, including (in her own aberrated way) my mom. I felt how deeply powerful and meaningful it will be it when Hillary gets elected. I can feel incredible appreciation for the feminist movement for having built structures and support so that I can become a better man, partner, friend and human being.

I am going to contact her after election day to tell her who I am, thank her for all the devotion, work and consciousness raising she brought to the community and how happy I am she got to see this day.

Her story is here. She is truly a lovely woman http://www.vfa.us/Beverly_Fitch_McCarthy.htm
posted by goalyeehah at 9:21 PM on October 22, 2016 [116 favorites]


Anyway, Mediaite put up 'Black Jeopardy', and if you missed it, do take a peek, because it taps into something profound. (It reminds me of Charles Barkley's conversation with Isaac Chotiner back in 2007.)

And Leslie Jones on Weekend Update about hacking is incredible.
posted by holgate at 9:27 PM on October 22, 2016 [18 favorites]


Actually, "FAKE BIKER, FAKE GUN, VOTE FOR A LIBRARY OPEN ON SATURDAY" on cheap poster-board may well do the trick.

Double check the local laws about politicking outside polling places first, or at least have a second sign ready with just the first two parts.
posted by ckape at 9:28 PM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


Leslie Jones is a national treasure.

(She also took on her hacking in this perfect Mr. Robot sketch.)
posted by lalex at 9:29 PM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


I feel like 'Black Jeopardy' could require a 400 page thesis to properly explain why it is and isn't funny and the ways in which it plays with themes of race, class, and politics. I come away from it feeling weird, which I think is a good thing, right?
posted by zachlipton at 9:38 PM on October 22, 2016 [7 favorites]


I come away from it feeling weird, which I think is a good thing, right?

That's a major part of my definition of Art as opposed to TV. I think part of it is that it's a truly funny mirror image of something that's truly not funny. Should be required viewing with a discussion guide as part of the post-elections lessons learned.
posted by mikelieman at 9:41 PM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


I felt like I only “got” about 80% of Black Jeopardy when they first did it last season, but this iteration of it was goddamn brilliant, and went in a refreshing direction. So many SNL sketches are mediocre on paper and require stellar performances to land properly, but this one would've been nearly as funny to read as to watch.
posted by savetheclocktower at 9:41 PM on October 22, 2016 [6 favorites]


I still don't get Black Jeopardy. What.
posted by Yowser at 10:01 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


My favorite part of the Mr Robot sketch is that she's 4th wall aware. Leslie Jones + Deadpool + She-Hulk would be EPIC.
posted by Deoridhe at 10:01 PM on October 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


And it begins...

@brithume
Woman who has sex on camera for $ says Trump propositioned her. "This is not acceptable behavior." Please.


Firstly, Trump didn't "just" do that; he did touch her inappropriately as well.

Secondly, if you went out and punched a professional boxer while he was walking down the street, that would still be assault, even though he gets paid to trade punches with people.
posted by dhens at 10:02 PM on October 22, 2016 [79 favorites]


I still don't get Black Jeopardy. What.

C'mon, make an effort.

Meanwhile, the best part of the cold open may have been the line that Trump had the support of Sarah Palin, Chachi, and Stephen Baldwin, "the best Baldwin." Heeeee.
posted by TwoStride at 10:06 PM on October 22, 2016 [12 favorites]


Actually, "FAKE BIKER, FAKE GUN, VOTE FOR A LIBRARY OPEN ON SATURDAY" on cheap poster-board may well do the trick.

"Toy gun," not "fake gun," for maximum humiliation. Fake/replica is somewhat respectable; let other people know he's being childish by trying to scare them with a toy.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 10:12 PM on October 22, 2016 [12 favorites]


> This works for state-funded media; it clashes horribly with first-amendment rights of the press run by private citizens.

Well, first, remember that my speculative future history began "within sight of the bounds of the possible...."

But that said, the bare constitutional bones of our society, superposed upon living itself, cannot help but produce endless situations in which rights clash with each other. If that was going to stop American statecraft, it never could have gotten started in the first place. Various bodies of law are continually being generated, reviewed, revised, appended, rescinded, and so forth, to negotiate these conflicts.

Also, it's a technical nightmare - are Twitter and Facebook part of that critical infrastructure?

What nightmare? I see nothing especially controversial here. For energy we already have the FERC, even while private industry creates, operates, and maintains energy services. For communications, we have the FCC. While there's certainly room for improvement, we already accept the idea of regulation. I just speculated that revisiting the governing principles upon which such regulation operates could produce a more coherent framework for ensuring that the dissemination of information critical to the health and continued functioning of our society as legally constituted is done in a responsible and accountable fashion.

Coming up with standards for ["unbiased, objective, non-partisan news"] means establishing what is considered "normal" and therefore not-newsworthy, and that usually means putting straight-white-christian-cis-men firmly in the center.

Well, we should most certainly take stock of the flaws and shortcomings of existing systems while we're speculating about how to take a fresh approach. That's the very first step in systems development. But we certainly don't need to shackle ourselves to those flaws going forward. And we needn't let the perfect be the enemy of the good, either.

For example, we mitigate public health risks in the air and water by applying statistical quality control methods, such as periodic and prescribed sampling to measure concentrations of physical pollutants in them. But we never imagine they are going to be absolutely pure. Why assume we must treat information in a fundamentally different manner? Is it because when the substance is conceptual, we are tempted to think in absolutist terms - truth, as opposed to information?

We know what to do to protect ourselves from the most common and severe risks to water and air quality. In the case of water, we also know how to ensure that people have access to it. The principles are simple, and few, even though the specific protocols for handling different kinds of situations may be very complicated. As long as the protocols are derived from the guiding principles, while also taking into account the complexities of living in the world, we can and do get the job done.

I know of no reason why, with thoughtful consideration, we wouldn't be able to ensure a reliable and safe source for a class of information that is essential to the health and function of our society as well.

tl;dr: a media required to uphold reasonable civic standards would produce better mods!
posted by perspicio at 10:17 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


Ya I get the "we're all the same" moral tale.

The part where the entire skit is holy fuck watching this makes me feel dirty this is so racist omg omg omg part is the part I'm not feeling.
posted by Yowser at 10:24 PM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


Actually, "FAKE BIKER, FAKE GUN, VOTE FOR A LIBRARY OPEN ON SATURDAY" on cheap poster-board may well do the trick.

I would go with the full Pekingese mascot costume and a sign reading BAN TOY GUNS.
posted by carsonb at 10:41 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


Utah I considering going with a system that gives the candidate with the most votes, all the electoral votes. They say they are going for relevance. I say they are just making it that it will always give all 6 electoral votes to republicans, or in the case of this year...just a new wrinkle.
posted by Oyéah at 10:44 PM on October 22, 2016


> I know of no reason why, with thoughtful consideration, we wouldn't be able to ensure a reliable and safe source for a class of information that is essential to the health and function of our society as well.

On reread, I misstated. I meant to say that I know of no reason why, with thoughtful consideration, we wouldn't be able to ensure that any significant sources of such information are reliable and safe. This implies both that any source could fall under the purview of the regulations, and that we would clean up or eliminate unsafe sources as a matter of course.
posted by perspicio at 10:47 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


Utah I considering going with a system that gives the candidate with the most votes, all the electoral votes.

But that, like, is the system, literally everywhere but Nebraska and Maine.
posted by dersins at 10:55 PM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


I still don't get Black Jeopardy. What.

I live in a pretty white part of the south -- not the whitest part by far, but definitely up there -- and as an outsider (though white and thus playing on Easy level) it hit me hard. I was mapping out the distance between the African-American bits of town, with their "I'll fix it for 40 bucks" guys, and the rural and isolated and very white bits of the county and their "I'll fix it for 40 bucks" guys, and it's probably no more than a half-hour drive. If you only drive for 20 minutes, you get to the places where poorer people of all races, creeds and colours co-exist, not necessarily amicably all the time or on the same trajectories, but with the same fundamental needs and desires and aspirations.

(There's a big flea market in Fletcher, where Trump sorta-kinda-spoke on Friday -- he went to the Ag Center because it's opposite the airport, not the bit a few miles further south -- and it's a melting pot of lower-income white people selling old Americana and assorted groceries and knick-knacks, and lower-income Latinx people selling leather items and western wear and cheap produce and empanadas and churros, and African-Americans selling sneakers and sunglasses, and middle-class people awkwardly buying that stuff. Fletcher is messy America, unresolved America, transitional America, because the kids brought up in Fletcher probably aren't going to stay there, but they're going to get to where they need to be because of what their parents are doing right now.)

So what I took from the Black Jeopardy bit isn't so much "this makes me feel dirty this is so racist omg omg" as the accuracy of Charles Barkley's articulation of class consciousness nearly a decade ago, a class consciousness rendered sclerotic by racial difference, which I think is mostly consistent with his position today. (Which isn't to say that I'd vote for him if I were a citizen and he ran for office.)

One of the ongoing conversations I have with my dad back in the UK is that there isn't really that much to separate the economic position and aspirations of the white Catholic immigrant community he grew up in with the South Asian Muslim community that lives on the streets he grew up on: that the differences that cause him the most problems (skin colour, mosques, hijab) are mostly superficial. When he says that he doesn't recognise the parts of town he was raised in because South Asians and black Africans and Eastern Europeans now live there, I ask whether he'd want to move back (to a cramped terraced house) from the suburbs to which lots of white Catholic families moved in the 70s, and of course he wouldn't. But he'll still drive down there because there are Asian-run tyre shops that will repair a puncture for cheap.
posted by holgate at 10:59 PM on October 22, 2016 [14 favorites]


we mitigate public health risks in the air and water by applying statistical quality control methods, such as periodic and prescribed sampling to measure concentrations of physical pollutants in them. But we never imagine they are going to be absolutely pure. Why assume we must treat information in a fundamentally different manner?

Because information, unlike air and water purity, is entirely subjective. Facts are not subjective, but information is not raw data; a news report is not a string of facts.

A news report is curated data, almost always offered with analysis of some sort. Curation itself is a skew; any opinion-based language in the reporting adds to that. This is most obvious during high-profile elections, but it also exists during daily local news and science news.

I know of no reason why, with thoughtful consideration, we wouldn't be able to ensure that any significant sources of such information are reliable and safe.

I would love to have one or more official gov't media sources - tv, newspaper, website, whatever. However, I suspect an "unbiased" one would just wind up hated and distrusted by most people in both the main political parties; we're used to at least our local news affirming our general outlook. (I have no idea what unbiased, neutral reporting about the Occupy movement would look like.)

For rules related to all media outlets distributing info related to the health and function of society... 1st amendment says that we can't make laws about that.

The gov't isn't allowed to say, "news reporting that doesn't include fact-checking isn't permitted." Nor is it allowed to demand that all reporting implies that men and women should have the same rights, nor that there are more than two genders, nor that crime is caused more by poverty than race.

This is the price we pay for our free speech rights. The gov't cannot mandate that information distributed to the public be useful or accurate - it can only allow the recourse of a lawsuit (or criminal charges) if harm is caused by that speech. And so far, "lotsa people want to elect an incompetent, petulant narcissist" is not considered actionable harm.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 11:00 PM on October 22, 2016 [10 favorites]


So, today we get the Getevensburg Address -- this guy is folding like a cardboard card table under a broken water main. Soggy!
posted by y2karl at 11:12 PM on October 22, 2016 [20 favorites]


RE: the issue of whether the Republican Party in the future needs to focus on the 25% (or whatever) of "deplorables" - I would make three related points:

#1. Even though it true that racists, misogynists, homophobes, people who are against foreigners, etc etc etc all exist, that does NOT mean it is necessary to base a political party and political movements around these things. They have existed before, probably throughout all time, but in recent years in the U.S. they have been fringe, and for good reason. They should stay fringe. Major parties should not debase themselves by running to these things. (And it is something of a sign of desperation when political parties do start running to these things IMHO.)

A healthy democracy minimizes the crazies. It doesn't put them front and center.

#2. Don't feed the trolls. They only grow larger and stronger the more they are fed. Yeah, a lot of people in the U.S. harbor some racist feelings (just for example--the same goes for misogynist, anti-foreigner, and all the other deplorable traits). But when it is socially unacceptable to display these traits, people background them. When it becomes socially acceptable to let your asshole flag fly high and proud, people will do that instead.

That's one big reason responsible political movements spend time tamping down this kind of anti-social behavior, not encouraging and promoting it.

#3. Parties don't actually need to reach out to the lowest and basest elements in human behavior in order to survive. It is possible to reach the same people--the same demographic groups--using other issues that are not so toxic to our democracy and to our social contract.

In many ways, the type of issues that Trump continually reaches for are the easy way out--the lazy way out. But there are other issues that motivate people, and political parties--even the Republicans--should consciously move in that direction.

Constantly appealing the lowest common denominator and the basest human emotions is not a recipe for the long-term health of a democratic nation.
posted by flug at 11:22 PM on October 22, 2016 [18 favorites]


Constantly appealing the lowest common denominator and the basest human emotions is not a recipe for the long-term health of a democratic nation.
That's the thing with a candidate who's a self-defined "outsider" from the Political Process. He's never invested anything in the long-term health of a democratic nation, and he likely never will.
posted by oneswellfoop at 11:28 PM on October 22, 2016


Something to reflect on for after Nov 8. From Linda Sarsour's Facebook page, a post where she describes an elderly Muslim gentleman's thinking about the election:
When you canvas, you only knock on the doors of the people on your list. As I was walking I passed by a home where I saw an old woman in hijab open the door and pass a glass of water to an old man sitting on the porch. I stopped in my tracks because they had a Trump sign on their lawn. They weren't on the list, so I walked up to the porch and said "Asalamu Alaykum". The old man was surprised to see me but nonetheless greeted me warmly. He asked my name and what I was doing and I responded. We engaged in a great conversation and then I mustered up the courage to ask him why he had a Trump sign outside of his home and he responded in Arabic "its safe. I feel safe with it in front of my home." He sounded sad but reassured by his own words.

I was so taken a back by his answer, but it made sense. It made sense for him. I challenged myself to not judge and continue to listen. I then asked, "but you are not voting for him, right? This doesn't mean you are necessarily voting for him?" He looked away from my eyes and he said, "I don't know, I want to vote for him because what happens if he doesn't win? Do you think we will be safe? Who do you think they will take revenge on? Us, you and me." I said who, " he said, "I don't know, some of his supporters. They will blame us for his loss. Maybe they will hurt more people." I wanted to say NO, that won't happen. No we can't let them win. No, this is not the right way to think. But I couldn't. I was too sad, too devastated, too frozen to speak. He asked me if I wanted something to drink, I said no thank you. I said, it was nice to meet you. May God bless and protect you and your family. He said "you too my daughter."
posted by bardophile at 11:39 PM on October 22, 2016 [188 favorites]


Wait, was I supposed to be offended by Black Jeopardy and think it was super racist? Did I somehow commit a grievous social error by finding a ton of humor and truth in it?
posted by palomar at 11:40 PM on October 22, 2016 [8 favorites]


RE: the issue of whether the Republican Party in the future needs to focus on the 25% (or whatever) of "deplorables" [...]

I think this is a category error. The Republican party presently consists of these deplorables. That is, there are enough deplorable people who are well enough organised to challenge pretty much any sitting Republican politician. Consequently, these politicians are scared to do anything (e.g., pass a budget, vote on a Supreme Court nominee) because any action can be taken as an affront. So it's not a matter of them choosing to go after the votes of the 25%. The Republican Party is really locked into a course that avoids confronting the deplorables, and there's no way at present it can exclude them. It's a vicious cycle and I don't know how the Party can break out of it.
posted by Joe in Australia at 11:50 PM on October 22, 2016 [4 favorites]


Maybe I'm just looking at Black Jeopardy through a Canadian lens, but man does it ever look racist to my biased eyes.
posted by Yowser at 12:00 AM on October 23, 2016


Can you point to what was racist? I'm watching it again and I'm seeing a sketch that indicates that the average Trump-supporting white person has a lot more in common with the average Black American than they personally believe, but there are still major hurdles to complete empathy and acceptance... I'll admit I do have a cringe moment, but it only happens when Doug starts to voice support for the All Lives Matter movement.
posted by palomar at 12:12 AM on October 23, 2016 [6 favorites]


I think the sketch is deliberately classist, and because of the ways in which class and race are intertwined in America, that can come across as racist. I also think that's the entire point of the sketch.

I'm glad it exists, but it does feel like the kind of thing that calls for a lengthy discussion about race and class with professional facilitation after. It does rely a lot on stereotypes in a way I'm not entirely comfortable with.
posted by zachlipton at 12:21 AM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


I live in a pretty white part of the south

As someone from a far less white part of the south, my read of this sketch is that the whole point was that all the racist redneck assholes actually have way more in common with black culture than they are willing to admit. Which is something I've noticed before, as a white southerner. Like, it's kind of fucked up how racist southern white people are considering that, culturally, we have way more in common than not. Sometimes I think that cultural commonality is one of the foundational reasons for southern white supremacy. Like the truly terrifying thing for racists is admitting that we all put a ham bone in everything.

As for whether this sketch is certifiably Racist, it had some WTF moments (broom on the ceiling downstairs, really?) but overall made a worthwhile point that is often not acknowledged.
posted by Sara C. at 12:24 AM on October 23, 2016 [12 favorites]


Ivanka and Eric Trump didn't register in time to vote for their father in N.Y.

Two more people that will benefit from Clinton's proposed nationwide automatic voter registration.
posted by sebastienbailard at 12:24 AM on October 23, 2016 [70 favorites]


[The SNL thing is beginning to be an extended derail from actual election discussion. Maybe better to get into a more in-depth discussion of the show over in FanFare when it's posted (anyone can post it now), and stick to directly election-pertinent aspects here.]
posted by taz (staff) at 12:27 AM on October 23, 2016


OMG STILL? They slept on this shit back in the primaries and STILL DIDN'T GET AROUND TO REGISTERING? WTActualF

Let us hope most other Trump supporters are as stupid.
posted by Sara C. at 12:28 AM on October 23, 2016 [8 favorites]


It kinda makes me wonder if they were being deliberate about "forgetting" to register. Passive-aggressiveness at its finest?
posted by jenfullmoon at 12:31 AM on October 23, 2016 [20 favorites]


I think that's a misreading. It seems like they won't be able to vote as Republicans, but if they're registered as independents or whatever, they can vote in the presidential election.


That means any voters who wanted to change their party enrolment in time to vote in the presidential primaries would have had to do so by that date. Enrollment changes submitted after that date won't take effect until the first Tuesday after the 2016 general election in November
posted by bardophile at 12:32 AM on October 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


And to make it election-pertinent, especially in the context of "what do we do about the deplorables?" I thought it was a really good (because funny!) examination of how the soft boundaries between people in similar economic circumstances run into the hard boundaries of racial politics.
posted by holgate at 12:33 AM on October 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


OMG STILL? They slept on this shit back in the primaries and STILL DIDN'T GET AROUND TO REGISTERING? WTActualF

Let us hope most other Trump supporters are as stupid.


It's the story from the primaries (dateline April 2016), not a new story.
posted by dhens at 12:33 AM on October 23, 2016 [10 favorites]


I don't know whether to be relieved or not
posted by Sara C. at 12:35 AM on October 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


It's the story from the primaries (dateline April 2016), not a new story.

/r/politics/new may be that swamp that Trump is going on about.
posted by sebastienbailard at 1:32 AM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


I'm not a huge fan of journalism based on Wikileaks, but I did find this Politico article on all the oppo Clinton didn't use against Sanders during the primary quite fascinating.
posted by xyzzy at 1:39 AM on October 23, 2016 [11 favorites]


It was quite clear that Clinton was going exactly as soft as possible while still being assured of victory. If she'd gone any softer she would have been campaigning for him.
posted by Justinian at 2:53 AM on October 23, 2016 [43 favorites]


That was my feelinng as well. And now that we're seeing Bernie oppo, I find the lack of Trump oppo conspicuous.
posted by xyzzy at 3:05 AM on October 23, 2016 [5 favorites]


OK, so I only read a few paragraphs of the Politico article. But can I just say how much I love that photo at the top? Hillary's face, serious, listening, thinking, not smiling, and those unapologetic lines and wrinkles, even the bags under her eyes. How often do we get to see a 69-year-old woman doing her job (and doing it so well) portrayed like that? Looking forward to heaps more of those pics in the next four years, America.
posted by moody cow at 3:06 AM on October 23, 2016 [21 favorites]


Fuzzy, I'm pretty sure they have tons of Trump oppo, but figured here's doing a fine job of self deducting without it. Besides, exposing it might invigorate the deplorables.
posted by peppermind at 4:05 AM on October 23, 2016



I'm not a huge fan of journalism based on Wikileaks, but I did find this Politico article on all the oppo Clinton didn't use against Sanders during the primary quite fascinating.


Really? YMMV but I mostly felt bad for the Politico interns that had to trawl through all that oppo only to find a bunch of weak attack lines like:
“Anonymous Sources Who Claimed To Have Previously Worked For Sanders Said That, As An Employer, He Often Mistreated His Employees,” reads the header.
Some of the lines of attack quietly made it into the primary fight, like the Jane Sanders college thing, but really there's nothing new or newsworthy here.
posted by tivalasvegas at 4:11 AM on October 23, 2016 [5 favorites]


I'm pretty sure they have tons of Trump oppo, but figured here's doing a fine job of self deducting without it.

The insinuation was that the hacker who acquired the emails had removed anything damaging about Trump.
posted by Slothrup at 4:13 AM on October 23, 2016 [18 favorites]


The other thing with Trump oppo dumps is that they get buried so fast by the pace of idiocy from Trump & Co. I imagine there are a few more juicy things that will come out a few days before the election for maximum effect.
posted by tivalasvegas at 4:17 AM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


Clinton's already included nationwide automatic voter registration as one of her planks, and an anti-gerrymandering move would dovetail perfectly with that.

Is this actually feasible? Given that elections are run on the county(?) level? I suppose voter registration is (often?) handled at the state level, so why not? I guess you can mandate motor voter.
posted by hoyland at 4:47 AM on October 23, 2016


What are the GOTV rallies like in terms of crowds, length, etc? I have some contacts on the ground in Bucks County and have been thinking about going down for Tim's GOTV rally (especially since the rumored NH dates haven't been announced yet), but I also want to know what to expect.
posted by pxe2000 at 4:54 AM on October 23, 2016


Here is Clinton's fact sheet on voting rights. It calls for "universal, automatic voter registration, where every citizen in every state in the union would be automatically registered to vote when they turn eighteen – unless they actively choose to opt out." I don't know what the plan for implementing that is though, or getting the states to sign on.
posted by tivalasvegas at 5:12 AM on October 23, 2016 [12 favorites]


. "Big league team owners mega-rich political donors" is a dog-bites-man story (regardless of party)

I'm trying to think of an example of one who is NOT a republican of any flavor. Nope, not yet.

Also, as a lifetime Red Sox fan from childhood I swore off baseball entirely after they finally won the playoff against the Yanks and went on to win an anticlimactic series in 2004. I have not paid attention to baseball since. And I haven't missed it at all. So yes, finally winning can make fans wake up to the misery they've been through supporting a crappy team for decades and cut their losses.

I'm rooting for the Cubs just to say fuck you to Cleveland's Chief Wahoo or whatever racist thing they call their racist logo. I've mentioned it before but this is a popular shirt in my Native American activist friends' circles these days.


Despite my desires, I predict the Cubs choke in 5. Tradition!
posted by spitbull at 5:18 AM on October 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


That said I would totally back an actual team whose Algonquian name meant "the small bears from the windy place."
posted by spitbull at 5:23 AM on October 23, 2016 [9 favorites]


I'm trying to think of an example of one who is NOT a republican of any flavor. Nope, not yet.

Half credit to Mark Cuban, though he's really a #NeverTrump Republican.
posted by tivalasvegas at 5:24 AM on October 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


Yes, Cuban is a surprising slight exception.

Yes, folks, when your city or state wants you to vote for a sports stadium bond or tax abatement remember they are almost always asking you to make a large donation, via your own taxes, to the party of Trump.

Major league team owners tend to be among the most retrograde of right wingers with endless money to throw at candidates.
posted by spitbull at 5:27 AM on October 23, 2016 [11 favorites]


Trump supporters seem to know the word "Lugenpresse", a word Nazis used to disparage the press.

Funny that. No wait. Not funny. Horrifying.
posted by Talez at 5:30 AM on October 23, 2016 [42 favorites]


Mark Attanasio the owner of the Milwaukee Brewers, is a Democrat.
posted by drezdn at 5:38 AM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


Yes, folks, when your city or state wants you to vote for a sports stadium bond or tax abatement remember they are almost always asking you to make a large donation, via your own taxes, to the party of Trump.

Major league team owners tend to be among the most retrograde of right wingers with endless money to throw at candidates.


Making it somewhat painful to cheer the Ricketts family Cubs.

It's a weird situation as Laura Rickets is the first openly gay part owner of a MLB team and also a major democratic party donor.

But the family have been hugely criminal tax shelterers, bank fraudsters, and big time republican donors including to Trump even after the sex tape release (despite openly opposing him during the primaries) and anti-gay marriage campaigners.
posted by srboisvert at 5:58 AM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


Meanwhile, the total of all newspapers, magazines, and periodicals endorsing Hillary Clinton now stands at: 268, including a number which have never or almost never endorsed a Democrat and a number which have never endorsed anyone at all.

The total of all endorsing ANYONE OTHER THAN DONALD TRUMP stands at: 16

The total of all endorsing Trump stands at: 4

Of those endorsing Trump, none are in the top 100 by circulation. His endorsements include one from The Santa Barbara News-Press, a paper from which most of the editorial staff and news reporters resigned or were fired in 2006 amid allegations that the owner was imposing her personal opinions on the reporting and publishing of news, and The Las Vegas Review-Journal, owned by Trump donor Sheldon Adelson.
posted by kyrademon at 6:02 AM on October 23, 2016 [30 favorites]


ABC News / Washington Post poll:

Clinton 50
Trump 38
Johnson 5
Stein 2
Likely voters by a vast 69-24 percent disapprove of Trump’s response to questions about his treatment of women. After a series of allegations of past sexual misconduct, the poll finds that some women who’d initially given him the benefit of the doubt have since moved away.

Fifty-nine percent of likely voters, moreover, reject Trump’s suggestion that the election is rigged in Clinton’s favor, and more, 65 percent, disapprove of his refusal to say whether he’d accept a Clinton victory as legitimate. Most strongly disapprove, a relatively rare result.

The results mark a dramatic shift from Clinton’s +4 points in the last ABC/Post poll Oct. 13. . . .This inaugural 2016 ABC News tracking poll, produced for ABC by Langer Research Associates, was conducted Thursday through Saturday among 1,391 adults, including 874 likely voters.
posted by sallybrown at 6:07 AM on October 23, 2016 [18 favorites]


I don't know what the fuck to make of the fact that 41% of likely voters don't reject the idea that the election is rigged and 35% don't disapprove of his refusal to say he'd concede if he lost. And that's likely voters!
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:16 AM on October 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


There's probably some undecideds on those issues in there as well, so it's less than just 100-n.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:19 AM on October 23, 2016


The previous ABC/Post poll found a sharp 12-point decline in enthusiasm for Trump among his supporters, almost exclusively among those who’d preferred a different GOP nominee. Intended participation now has followed: The share of registered Republicans who are likely to vote is down 7 points since mid-October.

If this continues I am stating to believe we can get the House back.


Vote preference results among some groups also are striking. Among them:

• Clinton leads Trump by 20 percentage points among women, 55-35 percent. She's gained 12 points (and Trump's lost 16) from mid-October among non-college-educated white women, some of whom initially seemed to rally to Trump after disclosure of the videotape.


The hidden working-class women's vote against Trump (if not always for Hillary) that some of us have been predicting for a while now is materializing. Holy shit!

Great poll! Next stop 35%!
posted by spitbull at 6:25 AM on October 23, 2016 [11 favorites]


Correction -- the Las Vegas Review Journal actually is in the top 100 newspapers by circulation, coming in at number 61, although the others endorsing Trump are not. And 25% of his total endorsements come from the Waxahachie Daily Light (circulation 4,787).

6 newspapers have endorsed Gary Johnson. In most if not all cases, they appear to be Republican-leaning newspapers which have never endorsed a Libertarian candidate before, so I suspect this is the editorial equivalent of throwing up your arms and saying, "screw it". Interestingly, the one daily newspaper that endorsed Gary Johnson in 2012, the Chattanooga Times Free Press, declined to make an endorsement this year.
posted by kyrademon at 6:32 AM on October 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


Those poll numbers are devastating for trump.
posted by medusa at 6:34 AM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


Did we ever do the Donald comparison jokes?

"What's the difference between Donald Trump and Donald Duck? One's an incoherent, perpetually angry lunatic and one's a duck."
posted by Talez at 6:35 AM on October 23, 2016 [30 favorites]


Trump supporters seem to know the word "Lugenpresse", a word Nazis used to disparage the press.

Funny that. No wait. Not funny. Horrifying.


It should be way more surprising than it is.
posted by Artw at 6:40 AM on October 23, 2016 [9 favorites]


Arizona's maniac govenor Jan "finger wagging" Brewer on CNN just compared the explosive number and rate of sexual assault accusations against Trump to a "waterboarding" of Trump.

As if the large number of accusations proves they aren't significantly disqualifying and the whole thing is a calculated and cynical assault.

Breathtaking.

Especially since Trump unequivocally supports the waterboarding of suspected terrorists and happily implies he would be fine with even worse forms of torture too.

Every time these people seem to have hit bottom, they find a new hole to go down.

Has anyone done a portrait of Trump as St. Sebastian pierced by arrows yet?
posted by spitbull at 6:49 AM on October 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


That is, there are enough deplorable people who are well enough organised to challenge pretty much any sitting Republican politician.

The true catastrophe for the Republicans is that the deplorables have finally realized that they are in fact a majority within the Republican party. And while their deplorable ideals are losers in any state or national general election, the deplorables are used to not getting their way because of sixty years of their Republican "friends" telling them too bad, so sad, can't do what you want again this year. So now they've realized that if they're not going to get what they want anyway, they might as well not get what they want loudly instead of as meek partners of people who are getting a lot of what they want.
posted by Bringer Tom at 6:52 AM on October 23, 2016 [13 favorites]


If this continues I am stating to believe we can get the House back.

Those poll numbers are devastating for trump.


If you want some joy for today, look at the beautiful trumpet shape opening up on the right side of the graph in the detailed results of the poll (PDF).

Also:
Clinton's also ahead numerically (albeit not significantly) among men, 44-41 percent, a first in ABC News and ABC/Post polling.

Trump is just +4 among whites overall, 47-43 percent

While 71 percent of women disapprove of his handling of questions about his treatment of women, so do 67 percent of men. And 57 percent overall disapprove “strongly” – 60 percent of women, but also 52 percent of men. By partisan group, 41 percent of Republican likely voters disapprove of Trump on this question, a heavy loss in one’s own party. That grows to 70 percent of independents and nearly all Democrats, 92 percent
I want to see that + in the white vote go - so so so so badly.
posted by sallybrown at 6:53 AM on October 23, 2016 [13 favorites]


I don't know what the fuck to make of the fact that 41% of likely voters don't reject the idea that the election is rigged.

Well, for my part it would honestly depend on how the question was phrased, and I can certainly see phrasings where I'd want to answer with something more ambiguous than "I reject the idea that the election is rigged." I mean, there's good reason to suspect that past elections have indeed seen at least attempts at rigging, albeit not in ways that would benefit Trump. And then there's the attempt by Republicans to rig the election in favor of themselves by passing laws that disenfranchise their opponents' voter base. Not to mention the electoral college, the first-past-the-post, winner-take-all election system, gerrymandering in the House, and the dominance of just two political parties to begin with. All of that stuff is undemocratic and tilts power away from the voter and toward the political elite, and I do sort of think of it in terms of "the system is rigged."

Now, I don't think that's what the pollsters were trying to get at with that question, but such are the perils of polling that depending on how the question about rigging was worded, my honest answer might have had to have been something like "Yeah, kinda." It's also very much not what Donald Trump is saying when he says the election is rigged against him; if anything, I think the system is set up in a way that should unfairly benefit Trump. But again, my answer would depend on the exact wording of the question. Are there a lot of voters like me? I dunno, but you expressed bafflement at how one could fail to reject the idea that our elections are rigged and that is one way that someone might get to that place without being an uncritical Trump follower.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 6:53 AM on October 23, 2016 [9 favorites]


Hooray! Today I get to go to my first Hillary Clinton rally! I'm very excited! I'm bringing my Mom and Uncle (Uncle is kind of a right-winger and probably a Trump supporter, but he will be on his best behavior.)

This is such a relief. My job involves going to political rallies from both campaigns. I've been to three Trump rallies, each more pathetic and depressing than the last. I've seen Chelsea Clinton and Michelle Obama once each, and Tim Kaine, like, three times. And now I finally get to see Sec. Clinton, whom I've been wanting to see for awhile.

I was afraid I'd go the whole campaign and never see Sec. Clinton. This campaign has upped my admiration for her 1000%. I always thought of her as competent and intelligent, but apparently, based on her debate performance (remember how the media was criticizing her for over-preparing for the third debate? Hahahahaha!) she's actually a superstar politician. I'm stoked!
posted by Cookiebastard at 6:54 AM on October 23, 2016 [46 favorites]


I want to see you defend in court that Donald Duck is actually a Duck.
posted by Namlit at 6:55 AM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


Donald Trump, unlike Donald Duck, wears pants?
posted by spitbull at 7:03 AM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


I want a free press. I want a press that provides both facts and context. I want journalists who are aware of history. I want journalists who report things that I would not otherwise be aware of. I want a press that can make me uncomfortable by challenging my assumptions. I want reporting that is aware of causality and calls out magical thinking.

As it turns out, I want to be back in college!
posted by Emmy Noether at 7:04 AM on October 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


Hillary Clinton is going to be in Raleigh today, so my wife and I are taking our 9 mo. old daughter to the event. The Mothers of the Movement will be there, so it will be a nice change of pace from dealing with my family in St. Louis who's response to all police brutality conversations is "what about black on black crime". [Next time that happens, I want to ask my older brother if he thinks we would have never gained independence if King George III responded to the Boston Massacre with "but what about colonial on colonial crime", rhetorically defeating the founding fathers forever.]

Quick question to those who've attended these types of events... my wife rsvp'd and they sent her an email saying "no large bags", does that include diaper bags the size of a laptop bag, or are those okay?
posted by Groundhog Week at 7:05 AM on October 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


Joy Reid opening with Lugenpresse! God I love her so much. It's so weird and refreshing to know there is always someone on tv saying things that are actually true.
posted by schadenfrau at 7:05 AM on October 23, 2016 [17 favorites]


Donald Trump, unlike Donald Duck, wears pants?

disputed by some
posted by Namlit at 7:05 AM on October 23, 2016 [7 favorites]


What's the difference between Donald Trump and the Hindenberg?

One is a flaming Nazi gasbag and the other was an airship.
posted by bardophile at 7:05 AM on October 23, 2016 [41 favorites]


Terrible news, everyone: Bill Kristol has just predicted that Trump will lose the election.
posted by Rhaomi at 7:06 AM on October 23, 2016 [29 favorites]


Johnathan Alter looks like a man who keeps realizing that Bush and the Iraq war was not the worst shitshow he'd ever live through.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:07 AM on October 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


Ok, just for the files: Hindenburg. Lügenpresse.
posted by Namlit at 7:07 AM on October 23, 2016 [10 favorites]




ABC News:
The previous ABC/Post poll found a sharp 12-point decline in enthusiasm for Trump among his supporters, almost exclusively among those who’d preferred a different GOP nominee. Intended participation now has followed: The share of registered Republicans who are likely to vote is down 7 points since mid-October.
posted by octothorpe at 7:14 AM on October 23, 2016 [8 favorites]


The share of registered Republicans who are likely to vote is down 7 points since mid-October.

Can we call this the Senate killer?
posted by schadenfrau at 7:16 AM on October 23, 2016 [8 favorites]


I want a free press. I want a press that provides both facts and context. I want journalists who are aware of history. I want journalists who report things that I would not otherwise be aware of. I want a press that can make me uncomfortable by challenging my assumptions. I want reporting that is aware of causality and calls out magical thinking.

As it turns out, I want to be back in college!


Or even high school! Here in the super-red Colorado Springs area, pro-DJT parents freaked out when a student editorial board at a local high school paper endorsed Clinton.

Responses from pro-DJT parents:
- It's inappropriate for a student publication!
- DJT should be given equal space!
- The newspaper staff should be suspended!
- The newspaper adviser is a "communist" and a "socialist" and should be fired!
- "No one should force their beliefs and opinions on anyone"
- "I am in complete and utter disgust at this blatant attempt to sway the minds of impressionable young voters"

The good news is that the school district is 100% standing firmly behind the students and the newspaper advisor, citing first amendment rights.
posted by mochapickle at 7:18 AM on October 23, 2016 [83 favorites]


The New York Review of Books has a series of essays on the current election and the state of politics and its worth taking a look at for anyont interested:
On the Election—I
Russell Baker, G.W. Bowersock, and David Bromwich
What is to be done about the Republican Party?

On the Election—II

Mark Danner, Andrew Delbanco, and Elizabeth Drew
A struggle for political power in which, for once, all is at stake

On the Election—III
Benjamin M. Friedman, Diane Johnson, and Nicholas Lemann
This year’s election is not about economics. Yet economics is at the heart of the matter.

On the Election—IV
Jessica T. Mathews, Darryl Pinckney, Marilynne Robinson, and Garry Wills
One way to evaluate people, a way not often given enough importance, is by a human test of the company they keep.
posted by Fizz at 7:24 AM on October 23, 2016 [24 favorites]


One is a flaming Nazi gasbag and the other was an airship.

One is a flaming Nazi gasbag that made onlookers weep for humanity, ultimately becoming an iconic symbol of total disaster...and the other was an airship.
posted by BlueDuke at 7:37 AM on October 23, 2016 [52 favorites]


The Log Cabin Republicans, one of the country's most influential LGBT Republican groups, announced Saturday that it would not back the party's presidential nominee, Donald Trump.

Wow, only 3 months after he named Governor No Pizza For The Gays his running mate and after you said the GOP platform was the most anti-LGBT ever. Good job guys!*

(* Not doing a gendered exclusion here; there may be lesbians in the Log Cabin Republicans but I've never seen one in a position of power.)
posted by MCMikeNamara at 7:37 AM on October 23, 2016 [25 favorites]




I've also never met a lady log cabin member, and in fact my overall impression of the Log Cabin republicans is "wealthy white men who don't want to lose that sweet wealthy white man privilege at the expense of standing up for anyone else," so, you know...fuck those dudes.
posted by schadenfrau at 7:40 AM on October 23, 2016 [34 favorites]


Big league team owners mega-rich political donors" is a dog-bites-man story (regardless of party)
I'm trying to think of an example of one who is NOT a republican of any flavor. Nope, not yet.


As an owner of one five-millionth of the Green Bay Packers, I offer myself as counterexample, along with many of my fellow shareholders in the nation's only truly publicly-owned major sports franchise.
posted by dersins at 7:40 AM on October 23, 2016 [49 favorites]


This is a great roundup of Trump's folly.
posted by h00py at 7:45 AM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


one of the country's most influential LGBT Republican groups

Has anyone ever been damned with fainter praise?
posted by Horace Rumpole at 7:57 AM on October 23, 2016 [26 favorites]


None more faint.
posted by Sublimity at 8:00 AM on October 23, 2016 [5 favorites]


Wow, only 3 months after he named Governor No Pizza For The Gays his running mate and after you said the GOP platform was the most anti-LGBT ever. Good job guys!

Some individual members of the log cabin republicans still have a hard on for Trump. I still can't wrap my head around the cognitive dissonance needed for them to support Trump or to even be a part of that group.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 8:01 AM on October 23, 2016


New @CBSNews Battleground Tracker polls:

FL:
Clinton 46
Trump 43

TX:
Trump 46
Clinton 43

C'mon Texas! While losing AZ would hopefully be a wakeup call, losing Texas is an existential crisis for the GOP. And even if they don't lose it, Texas becoming like Pennsylvania is for Dems where they win it but always have to defend it is huge damage to them.
posted by chris24 at 8:03 AM on October 23, 2016 [8 favorites]


> Not doing a gendered exclusion here; there may be lesbians in the Log Cabin Republicans but I've never seen one in a position of power.

http://www.logcabin.org/about-us/leadership/
posted by andrewcooke at 8:04 AM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]




I still can't wrap my head around the cognitive dissonance needed for them to support Trump or to even be a part of that group

if you've got enough money, laws are for the little people
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 8:13 AM on October 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


The New Yorker Endorses Hillary Clinton
On November 8th, barring some astonishment, the people of the United States will, after two hundred and forty years, send a woman to the White House. The election of Hillary Clinton is an event that we will welcome for its immense historical importance, and greet with indescribable relief. It will be especially gratifying to have a woman as commander-in-chief after such a sickeningly sexist and racist campaign, one that exposed so starkly how far our society has to go. The vileness of her opponent’s rhetoric and his record has been so widely aired that we can only hope she will be able to use her office and her impressive resolve to battle prejudice wherever it may be found.
posted by kirkaracha at 8:14 AM on October 23, 2016 [26 favorites]


How long until Trump fires here or slams her on Twitter?

@SopanDeb
.@KellyannePolls goes rogue to @chucktodd, admits something Trump won't - that he is losing right now: [screenshot of full transcript]
posted by chris24 at 8:16 AM on October 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


Demographics are coming for Texas whether it goes blue this year or not.

@williamjordann
Texas likely voters by age:

65+: Trump +22
45-64: Trump +14
30-44: Clinton +8
18-29: Clinton +21

Battleground polls
posted by chris24 at 8:21 AM on October 23, 2016 [30 favorites]


I'm not sure that "we are behind" can in any way be constituted as an admission of "losing."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:21 AM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


The new CBS poll also has Rubio at only +2. I'd be interested in knowing what the DSCC saw internally that made them pull out of the FL Senate race.
posted by lalex at 8:21 AM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


I'm not sure that "we are behind" can in any way be constituted as an admission of "losing."

Yeah.. She's been calling him an underdog for a while now.
posted by mochapickle at 8:23 AM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


If you are behind in the polls then you are losing the race, no?
posted by Horace Rumpole at 8:23 AM on October 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


I'm not sure that "we are behind" can in any way be constituted as an admission of "losing."

I'm not sure it can be interpreted any other way. When you're ahead you're winning, when you're behind you're losing.
posted by chris24 at 8:24 AM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


From a PR perspective, being behind in the polls can mean a lot of things that don't necessarily add up to losing. Polls can be, and have been, very wrong, because they sample the wrong populations, which happens quite often. I don't think Conway will get dinged for the comment. The Trump campaign's entire modus seems to be that the media is misreporting their majority. I don't think that's the case, but that's what they believe.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:27 AM on October 23, 2016


I'm trying to think of an example of one who is NOT a republican of any flavor. Nope, not yet.

Jeannie Buss (Lakers) and Magic Johnson (Dodgers, Sparks) but there are others in the NBA. Magic even had a big fundraiser for Hillary this year.

Big league team owners

Bigly team owners, surely.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:28 AM on October 23, 2016 [10 favorites]


The party that started with Lincoln and was the party of my hero, Teddy Roosevelt.

Hold up -- TR bailed from the big-money screw-the-little-guy GOP in 1912 and ran for a third-ish term as a Progressive, putting the sitting do-nothing ur-conservative Taft in third in the popular vote and EC (Taft won just Utah and VT)
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 8:28 AM on October 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


Here is Clinton's fact sheet on voting rights. It calls for "universal, automatic voter registration, where every citizen in every state in the union would be automatically registered to vote when they turn eighteen – unless they actively choose to opt out." I don't know what the plan for implementing that is though, or getting the states to sign on.

My understanding is that Congress has a couple of avenues for directly regulating elections:

- The Elections Clause, art. I, § 4, allows Congress to regulate the "time, places and manner" of federal elections. So you write the law to specify registration rules just for federal elections. In theory states could run parallel registration and voting systems for state elections that don't comply with federal law, but they don't seem to do that -- probably because it would be expensive and embarrassing, and set up a weird divide between state and federal-level politicians that would be hard to sustain.

- The congressional enforcement power under the 14th and 15th Amendments allows Congress to stop states from violating equal protection or due process or abridging voting rights on the basis of race. So you write the law to include findings that the following provisions will protect voters from discriminatory voting procedures, and it remains good law unless a state manages to convince a court that you haven't met that standard.

You can see both of these approaches being used in the National Voter Registration Act aka Motor Voter [pdf], for example.

(Interesting side note -- Motor Voter also requires states to offer the "register to vote" checkbox on applications for public assistance, to help address the problem that poorer people are less likely to apply for a driver's license. States seem to have no trouble with the driver's license part, but are not great at following this part of the law. [Link to testimony from Demos, an organization that does awesome work on this stuff.] This is one example of how the shape of our electorate is structural -- not coincidental, and not because of differences in civic engagement or responsibility. It also goes to show that "getting the states to sign on" is more than just creating a legal requirement for them to do something.)

Both the scope of the Elections Clause and of the 14th+15th enforcement power are hotly contested, of course -- here's SCOTUSBlog coverage of the Court knocking them around in Arizona v. Inter Tribal Council of Arizona and Shelby County v. Holder. The more reform we put on the table, the hotter this contest is going to get.

As the SCOTUSBlog writeups show, the federal ability to provide for fair elections is uncertain -- Shelby was 5-4 with Scalia in the majority, and Arizona was 7-2 but with a lot of hard questions left undecided to reach that level of consensus. The writeups also show that these rights depend on a functioning Congress -- laws are struck down not necessarily because they're bad, but because Congress can't keep them up to date or patch holes in them.

So the plan depends on: you need a Supreme Court that recognizes Congress's ability to provide for better elections. You need a Congress that is able to pass workable legislation. You need enforcement of the laws from the executive branch and from outside organizations like Demos. I'm looking out my window this sunny Sunday morning and somehow all of that feels possible right now.
posted by john hadron collider at 8:35 AM on October 23, 2016 [34 favorites]


Texas likely voters by age: 18-29: Clinton +21

The kids are all right.
posted by Slothrup at 8:53 AM on October 23, 2016 [32 favorites]


Politico has an article on the disparity between the McCrory and Trump messages on the economy.

It starts like this:
North Carolina Gov. Pat McCrory is desperate to talk about his economic achievements after a year mired in contentious debate over social issues, including the state’s transgender “bathroom law.”

The only problem? Donald Trump keeps coming to town and telling voters how terrible the economy is.
posted by kingless at 8:53 AM on October 23, 2016 [34 favorites]


Joy Reid talking with David French about his article yesterday. Joy asking about the nazification of the trump movement. Really good discussion but so scary how people who support him could be led into fascism so easily and so fully.
posted by Sophie1 at 9:03 AM on October 23, 2016 [5 favorites]


Is this actually feasible? Given that elections are run on the county(?) level? I suppose voter registration is (often?) handled at the state level, so why not? I guess you can mandate motor voter.

In what way is motor voter not mandatory right now?
posted by one_bean at 9:05 AM on October 23, 2016


In what way is motor voter not mandatory right now?

The driver license applications in TN specifically ask you if you wish to register to vote. People can mark no. For example, if you just voted, but haven't moved, you have no reason to register or change your registration. So the option is always given, but can be declined.

Edit for clarity: marking no does not cancel your registration.
posted by Groundhog Week at 9:13 AM on October 23, 2016


In what way is motor voter not mandatory right now?

In the way that the vast majority of states don't automatically register you to vote when you obtain or change your driver's license?

Under the Voter Registration Act of 1993, states are required to offer the opportunity to register under those circumstances, but are not mandated to actually register folks to vote unless they opt in.

An opt-out system (like Oregon's) results in many more registered voters. We'll see in November whether it results in more actual voters, but I suspect it will.
posted by dersins at 9:15 AM on October 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


Also, if you have a disability that prevents you from driving, but does not require you to apply for public assistance, you are basically exempt from motor voter.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:15 AM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


Got it, thanks. I was reading that as states had the option of implementing the law.
posted by one_bean at 9:17 AM on October 23, 2016


The Gettysburg Challenge: Lincoln or Trump?
  • “Fourscore and seven years ago our fathers brought forth, on this continent, a new nation, conceived in liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.”
  • “It is my privilege to be here in Gettysburg, hallowed ground where so many lives were given in service to freedom — amazing place”
  • “It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced.”
  • “At my rallies, they never show or talk about the massive crowd size and try to diminish all of our events.”
  • “…that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom, and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth”
  • “Every woman lied when they came forward to hurt my campaign. Total fabrication. The events never happened. Never. All of these liars will be sued after the election is over.”
posted by mazola at 9:18 AM on October 23, 2016 [21 favorites]


Jesus Christ I'm on /pol/ and one mob thinks the "redpill polls" are right and they're taking 7-1 odds on Trump. One guy put down $22K in savings and another is taking about putting down cash advances, payday loans, and basically everything he owns.

My heart breaks for these people. Not because Hillary is a sure win. But to put so much on the line so recklessly and out of delusion is just, I'm not sure, it's the same depressing feeling I get walking through a casino in Vegas and seeing all the pensioners hitting the slot machine play button over and over.
posted by Talez at 9:22 AM on October 23, 2016 [36 favorites]


It is my privilege to be here in Gettysburg, hallowed ground where so many lives were given in service to freedom — amazing place

He said "hollowed" btw
posted by tzikeh at 9:22 AM on October 23, 2016 [9 favorites]


The new CBS poll also has Rubio at only +2. I'd be interested in knowing what the DSCC saw internally that made them pull out of the FL Senate race.

The answer is up the thread a ways but basically they're thinking it's coattails from here on out in FL. Get out the vote for HRC and Murphy will get enough to go over the top on Rubio.
posted by Ber at 9:24 AM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


2009-2014 I didn't want the Dem Senate doing the GOP's dirtywork for them in jettisoning the filibuster (clearly the GOP strategy was to force the majority to make this change by opposing everything)

With the Garland thing there's no line the GOP won't cross to fuck with our democracy so it's gotta be best [less worse] to just move the Senate to 50+1, should Dems retake it this year.

I'm pretty certain if the [current shithead] GOP ever wins the presidency and Senate they'd ditch it forthwith anyway.
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 9:27 AM on October 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


The new CBS poll also has Rubio at only +2. I'd be interested in knowing what the DSCC saw internally that made them pull out of the FL Senate race.

The explanation I saw (maybe in the last election thread, maybe on Twitter) is that Murphy is close but probably wouldn't make it without riding a Clinton wave because Rubio is outperforming Trump with Hispanic voters. So, the DSCC probably pulled out because Murphy would probably benefit more from the Clinton campaign's work there than anything DSCC could do anyway, and are putting the money into tighter races.
posted by donatella at 9:27 AM on October 23, 2016


jinx, ber
posted by donatella at 9:30 AM on October 23, 2016


My heart breaks for these people.

Mine doesn't.

They're betting it all on a racist, sexist fascist who promises to punish all the people these dudes hate. My sympathy cupboard is pretty fucking bare.

I can only hope the person taking their money is some flinty-eyed WOC feminist.
posted by schadenfrau at 9:31 AM on October 23, 2016 [35 favorites]


My heart breaks for these people.

Mine doesn't.


Yeah, how do I get in on that? I think I need to find that one dude who unfriended me on FB and see if I can set something up.
posted by tclark at 9:34 AM on October 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


The other part of the explanation wrt to Florida and Murphy/Rubio I've read is financial--ad buys in Florida are something like 4 times more expensive than they are in states like Missouri. So to the extent there are several close races, Dems are trying to get more bang for their advertising dollars.
posted by MoonOrb at 9:35 AM on October 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


Jesus Christ I'm on /pol/ and one mob thinks the "redpill polls" are right and they're taking 7-1 odds on Trump. One guy put down $22K in savings and another is taking about putting down cash advances, payday loans, and basically everything he owns.

My heart breaks for these people. Not because Hillary is a sure win. But to put so much on the line so recklessly and out of delusion is just, I'm not sure, it's the same depressing feeling I get walking through a casino in Vegas and seeing all the pensioners hitting the slot machine play button over and over
.

That reminds me of the people who stake everything on making it big (bigly?) through multi-level marketing scams. Or winning the lottery. I recall reading somewhere - on CNN or another mainstream news site - that people who get involved in MLMs tend to be uneducated, unskilled, and unable to leverage themselves into earning decent money at a real job - so they grasp at scammy straws. Trump, or, as a dear friend calls him, The Human Colostomy Bag, is an MLM scamster at heart.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 9:35 AM on October 23, 2016 [11 favorites]


I was a gathering last night of professional people who work in medical, a Halloween costume party. They ran Fox News on the large TV as part of the costuming for their house, calling it a Horror Show.
posted by Oyéah at 9:36 AM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


I probably wouldn't invest a lot of energy in setting up wagers with people who are fans of a man whose business strategy is to never pay his debts.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 9:39 AM on October 23, 2016 [34 favorites]


I've mentioned it before but this is a popular shirt in my Native American activist friends' circles these days.

That's a thought provoking shirt. If I (white guy) wore it, would I be supporting or offending the Native American community?
posted by ctmf at 9:40 AM on October 23, 2016


One guy put down $22K in savings and another is taking about putting down cash advances, payday loans, and basically everything he owns.

At first I winced in sympathy, but then I remembered if I lose my Obamacare due to a Trump victory, my 3-person family will pay more than that per year for our health insurance, given our pre-exisiting conditions. So, yeah, this election is costly for me.
posted by puddledork at 9:42 AM on October 23, 2016 [59 favorites]


one mob thinks the "redpill polls" are right

It is always kind of shocking to me when I'm reminded that people actually believe this stuff, instead of just using it as some kind of troll/shock position in argument.
posted by thelonius at 9:44 AM on October 23, 2016 [6 favorites]


. Trump, or, as a dear friend calls him, The Human Colostomy Bag, is an MLM scamster at heart.

and I wouldn't be remotely surprised if, assuming he loses the election as badly as it looks like he might, he takes his tarnished brand out of the mainstream altogether and plants it firmly in the sub-stream of late late night TV (or whatever the near future equivalent shall be) and uses it to front an ongoing and lucrative get-rich-QUICK-is-the-only-way-you-can-get-rich scam. It will probably even become its own noun. Trumping ... or whatever.
posted by philip-random at 9:48 AM on October 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


I'd be interested in knowing what the DSCC saw internally that made them pull out of the FL Senate race.

Keepin' It 1600 talked a little about this, and I think it was mentioned in the last thread: Florida is a large state with some of the nation's most expensive media markets; the DSCC's job is to get to 50. So if it's a choice between ads in FL (where strong GOTV and lots of rallies may help downticket) or both MO and IN (states where it's cheaper to advertise, Trump has the advantage, but the Dem Senate candidates are performing better than Clinton) then you try to spend the money there.

the disparity between the McCrory and Trump messages on the economy.

This is why I've always considered NC a surer bet than somewhere like Ohio for the Dems: the political climate was bad enough for McCrory thanks to the locked-in state-leg majority -- all Cooper has to say is that he'll veto shit like HB2 and make Duke Energy clean up its shit -- and the only way to pull in the white-collar suburban business types is to talk about the economy. Then Trump shows up in former mill and furniture towns and says it's all terrible. (In passing, it'd be good never to have to read Ricky Diaz flacking for McCrory again.)
posted by holgate at 9:49 AM on October 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


I don't know what the fuck to make of the fact that 41% of likely voters don't reject the idea that the election is rigged.

Well, for my part it would honestly depend on how the question was phrased, and I can certainly see phrasings where I'd want to answer with something more ambiguous than "I reject the idea that the election is rigged"


From the poll results that sallybrown linked above, the actual wording was:
9. (ASKED OF LIKELY VOTERS) Trump has said he thinks the election might be rigged so that Clinton could be elected through vote fraud. Do you think (this is a legitimate concern), or do you think (Trump is trying to make excuses in case he loses the election)?
posted by alleycat01 at 9:49 AM on October 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


Jeannie Buss (Lakers) and Magic Johnson (Dodgers, Sparks) but there are others in the NBA. Magic even had a big fundraiser for Hillary this year.

To nitpick: Magic is a 1% owner, so he's more of the "Face of the Dodger Ownership". Guggenheim Partners, an investment firm, is the main owner.

But, 1% of a multi-billion dollar franchise is pretty sweet. Also 117 days until pitchers and catchers report!
posted by sideshow at 9:57 AM on October 23, 2016 [8 favorites]


These threads move so fast that I've had to skip a few so sorry if this question has been asked already: When are the debates?
posted by guiseroom at 9:59 AM on October 23, 2016 [40 favorites]




alleycat01: From the poll results that sallybrown linked above, the actual wording was:

9. (ASKED OF LIKELY VOTERS) Trump has said he thinks the election might be rigged so that Clinton could be elected through vote fraud. Do you think (this is a legitimate concern), or do you think (Trump is trying to make excuses in case he loses the election)?


Yeah, there's a mile of difference between thinking "the election is rigged" and "there is a legitimate concern that the election might be rigged". One is a conclusive opinion, and the other is an easy fallback position if you don't know but have some distrust in the system.
posted by Mitrovarr at 10:01 AM on October 23, 2016


The IBD poll that Trump is now quoting all the time since he leads in it? It had Romney up by 5% in October of 2012.

So the 3 polls he leads in are very right leaning Rasmussen, the crazy LAT/USC, and the IBD.
posted by chris24 at 10:02 AM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


Guiseroom:

John Cage wrote a musical piece titled "0'00"" (as in, zero minutes zero seconds) and said it was "to be played by anyone, anywhere." The remaining debates are like that.
posted by argybarg at 10:02 AM on October 23, 2016 [11 favorites]


(this is a legitimate concern), always. And being a legitimate concern, it is closely watched and guarded against. There is no evidence that we are in danger of that so far. Also, (Trump is trying to make excuses in case he loses the election).

So, b I guess?
posted by ctmf at 10:09 AM on October 23, 2016


I'm glad I don't have to worry so much about Trump winning anymore but I'm baffled by the views of (mostly) twenty- and thirtysomething dudes in my small local lefty ethnic community. I was having a conversation with a good friend last night and found out that he believes that the winner (in either case) will immediately be impeached. I was like, "Uhh, setting Trump aside for a second, why the heck do you think Hillary would be impeached?" Answer: 1. Emails!!!! 2. Something about her accepting money to stop supporting single-payer healthcare. I am not sure if he had noticed the multiple Hillary buttons on my bag when he started in on this line of reasoning, but I don't do well with in-person political disagreements so I simply picked the bag up, stroked it thoughtfully, and then fled.

The worst part? The reason this even came up is because earlier in the day, walking down my street with no one else around, I saw a prop plane flying overhead with a banner reading, I shit you not, "CA Chinese Americans for Trump." I live in San Francisco and I actually burst out laughing when I realized what it said, and thought about how much money someone paid to gain exactly zero votes. But then I thought, if the people behind this are not stupid (a big if, I know) and realize that their banner will not actually affect the electoral outcome in California, what ARE they trying to say? Just fuck you to the world? It was a little unsettling.

Anyway, there are about four other dudes on my Facebook who make a big point of not supporting Hillary, and talk about her being "corrupt" and the election being "rigged." It's so disturbing to me the way they're mirroring the language of Trump supporters. (Again, we're all POC in San Francisco; actual Trump supporters are basically mythical creatures to us.) And it really bothers me that we finally have a candidate who really speaks to me, and the misogynist hate machine has already begun its work.
posted by sunset in snow country at 10:11 AM on October 23, 2016 [29 favorites]


so I simply picked the bag up, stroked it thoughtfully, and then fled.

'Treat them exactly as I would if they had started talking about contrails' is the strategy I use, too.
posted by ctmf at 10:18 AM on October 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


My heart breaks for these people. Not because Hillary is a sure win. But to put so much on the line so recklessly and out of delusion is just, I'm not sure, it's the same depressing feeling I get walking through a casino in Vegas and seeing all the pensioners hitting the slot machine play button over and over.

I wouldn't even take odds that these are real people. I'd bet that they are 'confederates' trying to pump the confidence of smaller fry rubes.
posted by srboisvert at 10:18 AM on October 23, 2016 [11 favorites]


I know a lot of affluent white lefties who find Hillary "corrupt" and the election "rigged" because they can't fathom the world not bending to their White Man Spirit Journey and not having Bernie/whoever they choose. To them, the most important thing they can do is vote Jill Stein (or write in Bernie) to show that nothing will ever take away their right to have their emotive fantasies catered to.
posted by argybarg at 10:21 AM on October 23, 2016 [66 favorites]


Yeah, as much as I firmly believe due to polling that Millennials* are on board with Clinton, likely Democratic voting men are on board with Clinton, etc, I continue to have Facebook arguments on a daily basis with male friends who are quick to criticize her, often on issues that they are woefully uninformed about. I suppose it's possible that these friends would be criticizing any Democratic presidential candidate, but it just feels so fucking gendered to me. The core issue seems like an inability to sit down and accept a female President.

And, yes, despite the fact that many of them claim to be criticizing Clinton from the left, it's surprising how often their arguments mirror those of Trump supporters, and of the far-right early 90s Republicans who would do anything in their power to discredit the Clintons.

* I mention Millennials because, as a 30-something, I'd peg a solid half or more of my male friends fall into that demographic. I'm sure there are older dudes doing this, too.
posted by Sara C. at 10:22 AM on October 23, 2016 [15 favorites]


Remind them that to remove the President after the House votes for impeachment the Constitution requires a 2/3 majority to vote to convict in the Senate.
posted by humanfont at 10:25 AM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


I recall reading somewhere - on CNN or another mainstream news site - that people who get involved in MLMs tend to be uneducated, unskilled, and unable to leverage themselves into earning decent money at a real job - so they grasp at scammy straws. Trump, or, as a dear friend calls him, The Human Colostomy Bag, is an MLM scamster at heart.

This of course was absolutely the MO of Trump University, sorry, "Trump Entrepreneur Initiative" (it later had its name changed since it did not actually have an educational license). The good news is that should Trump - in the ultimate worst-case scenario - win in November, the three cases of fraud and racketeering he currently has against him in federal court are arguably impeachable offences.
posted by Doktor Zed at 10:27 AM on October 23, 2016 [6 favorites]




I get the "white man is special snowflake" thing, and really there's not SO much difference in the modern world between affluent Japanese American lefties and affluent white lefties, but having worked with these guys over the years on community building, I guess I just hoped they would know better. I cannot believe that men whose grandparents were in the internment camps would think Hillary is "the same" as Trump.

It's weird. I don't know that it's Hillary's femaleness that stops them from accepting her (although all their talking points come from people who hate her for that reason, which is a small but significant difference IMO). But the fact that I and other women support Hillary, and that these guys don't think that's worth listening to, is what's most disappointing to me.

Remind them that to remove the President after the House votes for impeachment the Constitution requires a 2/3 majority to vote to convict in the Senate.

I actually said "Uh you think Congress is going to vote to impeach Hillary Clinton" and he seemed convinced that the process would be initiated by the Supreme Court, and he also insisted that Bill Clinton had actually been convicted but reached the end of his term before he would have been removed from office, so, we're not actually working with a great deal of knowledge or basis in reality here. I stand by my response of fleeing at the first opportunity.

posted by sunset in snow country at 10:34 AM on October 23, 2016 [38 favorites]


The House GOP probably will try try to start impeachment over teh emailz.
posted by thelonius at 10:36 AM on October 23, 2016


we're not actually working with a great deal of knowledge or basis in reality here.

This seems to typify all these types of exchanges that I have, which is part of what connects it to me to things like mansplaining, men who assume they are right about everything by default, men who assume all women are wrong/corrupt/liars by default, etc.
posted by Sara C. at 10:38 AM on October 23, 2016 [14 favorites]


The House GOP probably will try try to start impeachment over teh emailz.

I'm not sure, but I think they're only limited to stuff that occurs while the target is a sitting President for impeachment. They can't just go find some crime committed years ago and try them for it - they certainly would have done so for Obama by now if that was possible.
posted by LionIndex at 10:41 AM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


Nice summary of the past week.
posted by annsunny at 10:43 AM on October 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


When you protest a Trump rally but no one realizes your shirt says "Latinas AGAINST trump" so they take pics w/ you like you're supporters
Jeez, you'd think that Republicans would know the word "contra." We had this whole hearing with Oliver North that one time.
posted by xyzzy at 10:44 AM on October 23, 2016 [26 favorites]


The GOP starting a new nothingburger shitstorm every five minutes is pretty much a given at this point though. Getting anything done is going to be very much a matter of working around that.
posted by Artw at 10:47 AM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


I'm not sure, but I think they're only limited to stuff that occurs while the target is a sitting President for impeachment.

I really don't know, come to think of it, and was assuming that charges related to previous office were relevant - it's a good question.

Article 2, Section 4 says "The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors." which seems to leave it an open issue as to when those offenses must have been done.
posted by thelonius at 10:52 AM on October 23, 2016


I feel like they'd have nailed Obama on unpaid Boston parking tickets if they could.
posted by Sara C. at 10:53 AM on October 23, 2016 [9 favorites]


It's not like they're even going to be starting something new up, just resuming their current holding pattern, actual governance be damned.
posted by Artw at 10:54 AM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


It's also going to be VERY hard to gin up support for the idea that emailgate constitutes "high crimes" since they've held numerous investigations at this point and the FBI says there's nothing there.

I would assume that they can't just throw a show trial because 2/3 of congresscritters hate her, there has to be some reason to suspect that Clinton is actually guilty of a crime.

Right?
posted by Sara C. at 10:56 AM on October 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


Maybe suggest to recalcitrant lefty bubble dwellers and aesthetic faux-radicals that as Hillary consolidates the support of more centrist and moderate republican voters, her administration will owe less and less to the interests they hold dear if they don't join her coalition. The path to influence is paved with votes that become collateral power.

She likely wins with or without the campus left/tech hippie/alt-left's support. The train is leaving the station. But it's close enough that a percent or two in a few states could make it an electoral landslide with a democratic majority senate, which is the only way she can do anything for anyone. No she won't support an immediate ban on fossil fuel extraction or breaking diplomatic relations with Israel. But if you want her to keep pragmatically focused on left causes you'd best be counted on Election Day.

It's another sign of privilege to not carry your weight as a citizen when the rights and futures of millions of fellow citizens -- workers and people of color and immigrants and women and LGBTQ folk, and children -- cannot afford to make the same risk calculations you can. But if they win without you, they'll remember next time.

That's how I'd put it if I were arguing with anyone still considering Stein or not voting or writing in Bernie or whatever.

TLDR: appeal to their self-interest not their morality. They've already proven they're selfish.
posted by spitbull at 10:57 AM on October 23, 2016 [23 favorites]


I feel like they'd have nailed Obama on unpaid Boston parking tickets if they could.

lol best part about that is that they only found out about those because he paid em. That was probably the only skeleton he had in his closet.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 10:57 AM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


Are we drifting back into fighting straw Berniebros again? Come on folks if you see one in the wild just ignore them. They aren't statistically relevant and soon they won't be culturally relevant either. Deep, healing breaths.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 10:59 AM on October 23, 2016 [9 favorites]


I would assume that they can't just throw a show trial because 2/3 of congresscritters hate her

Erp. Well, yeah, you'd think so.
posted by thelonius at 11:00 AM on October 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


In general I agree with that, but the confluence of sexist attitudes and the coming reality of a female president makes me feel like this is a battle we'll be fighting for a long time to come. This feels different from the "berniebros" phenomenon, though it is related and tends to involve some of the same individuals.

I definitely don't think the ways that sexism in the general public will influence the Hillary Clinton administration should be off the table for discussion. Especially because that in itself feels pretty sexist.
posted by Sara C. at 11:01 AM on October 23, 2016 [12 favorites]


Jeez, you'd think that Republicans would know the word "contra."

They ever knew it didn't mean "FREEDOM!"
posted by spitbull at 11:03 AM on October 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


Texas is now grey on RCP.

me right now
posted by lalex at 11:03 AM on October 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


I would assume that they can't just throw a show trial because 2/3 of congresscritters hate her, there has to be some reason to suspect that Clinton is actually guilty of a crime.

This is exactly what they did to Bill, the only thing stopping them from doing it again is whether or not they remember public opinion against the first kangaroo impeachment.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:04 AM on October 23, 2016 [5 favorites]


I'm not sure, but I think they're only limited to stuff that occurs while the target is a sitting President for impeachment.

[puts on professional nerd hat]

The House can impeach for anything it wants to. The only appeal from an impeachment that seemed to lack proper grounds would be that the Senate would vote down the charge with an explicit dismissal rather than an acquittal. This actually happened, sort of, in the early days of the Republic when the House impeached a Senator, which is of course haram. The Senate received the impeachment, dismissed the case because you can't do that, and promptly expelled the offending member on their own. There is no appeal whatsoever from the Senate's decisions in an impeachment trial. So yeah, the House could impeach Obama explicitly for being black and the Senate could convict and remove him from office for being black and that would be that until the second civil war started.

If it were someone less serious-minded than Clinton, I would kinda hope that the House did impeach on some dumbass grounds just so they could actually hire Joe Pesci to run the defense as Vinnie. He would just sit there scowling and his entire defense would be "Everything those other guys said is bullshit." But Clinton would probably dignify it with a serious defense instead of that, or having counsel be a wizard who only speaks pig latin.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:05 AM on October 23, 2016 [16 favorites]


They can't just go find some crime committed years ago and try them for it

"The House... shall have the sole power of Impeachment" makes it nonjusticiable under the political question doctrine. They could impeach her for being a woman because all references to the president in Article II say "he".
posted by holgate at 11:08 AM on October 23, 2016 [5 favorites]


If the house overreaches and attempts to impeach Clinton out of the gate, all historical evidence suggests they would be risking their predicted midterm gains.
posted by spitbull at 11:08 AM on October 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


I feel like they'd have nailed Obama on unpaid Boston parking tickets if they could.

They could do that if they wanted to. They don't because (a) they know they'd nevvvvv-ar get 67 votes to convict in the Senate, and (b) enough of them still remember what happened when they bullshit-impeached Bill Clinton (tl;dr: it only made him stronger than they could possibly imagine) to recognize it as a Bad Idea.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:09 AM on October 23, 2016 [7 favorites]






"How people will react to a HRC administration" seems as impossible to truly predict without relying on as many stereotypes as "What will a HRC administration actually do". A lot of leftists are already predicting dire centrism and neoliberal deregulation from her White House, which is possible but hasn't happened yet so is just fight-picking at this stage. We'll see what happens. I'm hopeful that the left on the whole (outside of the extreme fringe) will be as fair with her mistakes and actions that people disagree with as they were with Obama. And I'm hopeful that she will attempt to do as much as she can to enact her platform. Beyond that, why dig trenches?
posted by Potomac Avenue at 11:11 AM on October 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


I feel like they'd have nailed Obama on unpaid Boston parking tickets if they could.

As a guy who learned to drive in Boston and has to drive there regularly now, it just occurred to me how sweet it must be to be president and literally never have to worry about parking ever again.
posted by spitbull at 11:12 AM on October 23, 2016 [5 favorites]




>> When you protest a Trump rally but no one realizes your shirt says "Latinas AGAINST trump" so they take pics w/ you like you're supporters
> Jeez, you'd think that Republicans would know the word "contra." We had this whole hearing with Oliver North that one time.


Methinks you're misoverestimating people's memory and/or interest
posted by farlukar at 11:24 AM on October 23, 2016 [3 favorites]



I do think some of misogynistic foundations of people disliking her both conscious and most importantly unconscious will dissipate over Clinton's time as President. The office of President, the mythos of President, the social culture and symbolism behind the office of the "Leader of the Free World" has been up until now male and while many have no problem imagining a woman in the office many people have problems of imagination. There are just certain types of people that are uncomfortable and push back against thing that are different but are fine once it happens and they can actually see it.

I am very excited to have Hillary and a woman finally make it to this position but even I will admit that it's going to be a bit surreal for me at first. Not bad surreal but just the nature of having no basis of comparison of what it potentially will look and feel like emotionally. She is the first and it is big deal.

In no time though, just like what happened with Obama it will be completely normal. Totally and awesomely normal. I can't wait!
posted by Jalliah at 11:30 AM on October 23, 2016 [22 favorites]


I'd like to see research studies at some point in the future about how this election has affected tertiary aspects of people's lives: productivity at work, heart health, binge drinking, road rage, domestic disputes, general outlook on life.

I'd bet that it's way, way down all across the board. It's taken a vital part of our democracy and basically made it into an albatross around everyone's neck. Making day-to-day life so much worse, and so much meaner in the process. trump has a lot to answer for.

edit: Well, drinking, road rage, and domestic disputes would rise, I more mean "made worse".
posted by codacorolla at 11:31 AM on October 23, 2016 [19 favorites]


If the house overreaches and attempts to impeach Clinton out of the gate, all historical evidence suggests they would be risking their predicted midterm gains.

Also the future of the United States as a functioning democracy, scant as the evidence is that this is a motivating factor for House Republicans.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 11:32 AM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


"Clinton's already included nationwide automatic voter registration as one of her planks, and an anti-gerrymandering move would dovetail perfectly with that."

hoyland: Is this actually feasible? Given that elections are run on the county(?) level? I suppose voter registration is (often?) handled at the state level, so why not? I guess you can mandate motor voter.


I think they'd have to mandate motor vehicle, as that's how a bunch of states are doing it now; I waffle on the idea of a national ID system due to how we (miss)use Social Security Numbers, which are denied any actual protections because they aren't supposed to be used as IDs. Unfortunately, the whole "number of the beast" think has made advancing any national ID nearly impossible and I don't know how the current Democratic Coalition would handle it. We really DO need some sort of national system of identifying people, though; the current system is cobbled together and a thorough mess. Doing it without ending up in a "papers please" situation given the gutting of the Fourth Amendment, though.... uuuuughuuuu. Not even on the table right now, but it's so important.

The Clinton Plank is: "Automatically register voters. Hillary will work so that every citizen is automatically registered to vote when they turn 18, unless they opt out, and make sure that voter registration rolls are accurate and secure." This is combined with repairing the Voter's Rights Act, expanding Early Voting, suffrage for ex-prisoners (I wish this was suffrage for everyone), and implementing the president’s bipartisan commission to improve voting.
posted by Deoridhe at 11:42 AM on October 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


"every citizen in every state in the union would be automatically registered to vote" ... I don't know what the plan for implementing that is though, or getting the states to sign on.

Off the top of my head: tie it to the Social Security Number - if you're registered as a dependent on someone's taxes growing up, you're registered to vote when you turn 18. Providing ID/verification of that is still an issue, but you don't have to register, just prove that you are who you claim to be and you live where you claim to live - one less step, and the presumption starts with "you are allowed to vote."

"Am I registered?" becomes "where am I registered, and with which party?"

With better data organization, they could remove the need to pre-register in a specific location; the need for regional lists predates computer tech. I like the ability to rely on analog tech, but it'd be nice if a person whose name didn't appear on their local list could call in to state central and have that fixed on election day.

Also, if you have a disability that prevents you from driving, but does not require you to apply for public assistance, you are basically exempt from motor voter.

I don't drive, but I have a state ID card; applying for/renewing that has the same motor voter checkbox. I wish more people, especially teenagers, realized they can get one of those even if they can't/don't drive.

There's no age limit on state ID cards. I got one for my daughter when she was two, because we were looking at the possibility of her doing commercials and that made it much easier for her to have a bank account.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 11:46 AM on October 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


Jeez, you'd think that Republicans would know the word "contra." We had this whole hearing with Oliver North that one time.

Those few Trumpers who remember anything at all about that, may well remember little more than that the Contras were "the good guys." Odds of them knowing the actual meaning of the word seem as slim as their knowing the meaning of "Sandinista."
posted by dersins at 11:51 AM on October 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


#NextPost (or the election one) This handy chart of Trump's excuses.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 12:05 PM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


I had a thought today about Trump supporters, after reading about how Hillary Clinton will no longer address him. Well that, and watching some interviews with Trump supporters in their own homes.

So many folks out there in the Midwest and similar areas are pro-Trump because living where they live, a middle-class life is increasingly unsustainable. Maybe they shouldn't be living there anymore. Maybe they should be questioning their ideal lifestyles. If you want to live in a rural area, or in low-density towns and suburbs where there is only one primary industry, and the maintenance of all your land, housing and belongings is expensive, then maybe that is the real problem.

The old incarnation of the American dream is to live in a socially isolated, greedy [often mono-ethnic] harmony, surrounded by the kitschy opulence of "simple pleasures". These pleasures themselves are defined by unreasonable and unsustainable abundance; having two cars "for convenience", a huge house for a family of only four, etc. It's the richesse of racism and waste.

You can't fucking have that anymore. No one should.

To the sort of folks who support Trump, my thinking might come off as tantamount to calls of [white] genocide. I don't know what the solution is, here. The obvious one is a great migration. Also perhaps a serious education on the pitfalls and long term impracticality and stability of the American dream is necessary.
posted by constantinescharity at 12:07 PM on October 23, 2016 [11 favorites]


> I continue to have Facebook arguments on a daily basis with male friends who are quick to criticize her, often on issues that they are woefully uninformed about. I suppose it's possible that these friends would be criticizing any Democratic presidential candidate, but it just feels so fucking gendered to me. The core issue seems like an inability to sit down and accept a female President.

It's definitely gendered and it's definitely sexism, even though they'd doubtless indignantly deny it. It's one thing to accept intellectually that women are "just as good" as men, but it's very different to claw your way out of the deep well of sexism that (unless you were very lucky) you were steeped in from the moment you first opened your eyes and hollered. I know this from personal experience; I've been "progressive" for almost half a century, but it took me decades to really accept women as equals even subconsciously (I could tell this was happening when, for instance, it stopped seeming a little off to me to hear women's voices giving the news).

And even though I knew consciously that America was still steeped in sexism and racism, it's been a brutal shock to see it coming out into the open lately. May Hillary's victory, and increasing numbers of women in high places, change the minds that can be changed, and may the others rest content with grumbling!
posted by languagehat at 12:13 PM on October 23, 2016 [37 favorites]


Curt Schilling's weirdo interview with Jake Tapper and his pathetic Trump rally have already paid off: Curt Schilling Joins Breitbart. He'll have a daily hourlong call-in political show after being kicked off ESPN for sharing a transphobic meme on Facebook.
posted by zachlipton at 12:15 PM on October 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


Talking Points Memo has an article about the abused suffered by David French and his family because he is a never-Trumper. French's article for the National Review was discussed upthread, but TPM has some more info about the Trump family's response to the abuse. Excerpts:
David French, a columnist for National Review, and his wife Nancy French, a columnist for the Washington Post, have come under what French called “an unending torrent of abuse that I wouldn’t wish on anyone” in a column published Friday. He describes how, more than a year ago, he began seeing images of his daughter’s face photoshopped into gas chambers or slave ships, and how the comment section of his wife’s blog on Patheos filled with images of extreme violence. . . .

In May, after journalist Julia Ioffe published a profile of Melania Trump that she says led to a barrage of anti-Semitic death threats, Trump said that while she disagreed with the abuse, “I don’t control my fans,” and, referring to Ioffe, “She provoked them.”

A month later, after New York Observer entertainment writer Dana Schwartz wrote “An Open Letter to Jared Kushner, From One of Your Jewish Employees,” asking Kushner to speak out against the anti-Semitic abuse propagated by some supporters of his father-in-law’s campaign, Kushner responded in the publication. He wrote of Schwartz’s letter, “As always, there are thoughtful points but journalists, even those who work for me at the Observer, are not always right."
The vileness of Gamergate writ large . . .
posted by flug at 12:16 PM on October 23, 2016 [34 favorites]


In Canada you tick a box to affirm you want your voter registration updated with your new info when you file your taxes.

My understanding is that government bodies usually can't share personal info like that without consent, so it's not automatic. Taxes here are bundled, you fill out the federal and provincial at the same time... so I guess the info is shared with both elections oversight bodies when you say "yes".

Anyway, works well, and kind of adds this warm yay citizenry! moment to the tax process.

The one problem is that many poorer people don't file every year (not obliged if you owe no tax) so there can be gaps.

I think it's great that Clinton is looking to make voter registration easy and automatic for the USA.
posted by chapps at 12:28 PM on October 23, 2016 [5 favorites]


I voted today - gorgeous weather, no line, and volunteers who were excited to be there and excited we were there.

I vividly remember my Kindergarten class in which Mrs. O asked us to help her put the right velcro labels on a list of who the President can be - A grown-up? Yes! Kid? No! Horse? No! American? Yes! Canadian? No! Farmer? Yes! Teacher? Yes! Man? Yes! Woman?...we weren't sure. And she said, "Yes, a woman can be President, we just haven't had one yet!"
posted by sallybrown at 12:31 PM on October 23, 2016 [78 favorites]


I happened to be in Times Square yesterday, and saw a homeless guy who had a sign that read: UNLESS YOU GIVE ME ONE DOLLAR I WILL VOTE FOR DONALD TRUMP.

Which is funny enough, until you recall that the guy is using this tactic in Trump's home town - the guy knows that the people who have known Trump the best can be relied upon to despise him the most.

And THEN it's hilarious.
posted by AsYouKnow Bob at 12:36 PM on October 23, 2016 [48 favorites]


Maybe they shouldn't be living there anymore.
I think you have to tread very carefully with this argument. Remember the backlash against scientists who argued against the existence of New Orleans after Katrina? Even if it isn't meant that way, it comes off as dismissive of the very real concerns of a community. If I just look at my own personal situation, I find it literally impossible to improve my quality of life. I live in a mental health care desert without the resources to move, so I'm stuck with my suffering without the means to address it. I can guarantee that a huge number of rural folks don't have the means to change their circumstances and feel stuck and abandoned as a result.
posted by xyzzy at 12:38 PM on October 23, 2016 [48 favorites]


I would give that guy $5.
posted by sio42 at 12:38 PM on October 23, 2016 [7 favorites]


I happened to be in Times Square yesterday, and saw a homeless guy who had a sign that read: UNLESS YOU GIVE ME ONE DOLLAR I WILL VOTE FOR DONALD TRUMP.

In Florida, there's a non-zero chance he could be worth more than Trump inside of a week.
posted by Mooski at 12:39 PM on October 23, 2016 [17 favorites]


> I might be a little over invested in seeing Rubio get spanked. My parents will be first time FL voters this year and I CANNOT WAIT for them to get their NY liberal butts to the polls and spray blue all over those ballots.
xyzzy (and anyone else in Florida): one of Trump's SCotUS picks, the very conservative, Charles T. Canady, is up for retention on the ballot... if, you know, you wanted to send a message about everyone with Trump's stink on them. :)

(My own mail-in ballot is sitting on the shelf by the front door--filled out, sealed, and signed on the envelope--and will go out Monday.)
posted by Fiberoptic Zebroid and The Hypnagogic Jerks at 12:43 PM on October 23, 2016 [5 favorites]


> Because information, unlike air and water purity, is entirely subjective. Facts are not subjective, but information is not raw data; a news report is not a string of facts.

So...I just want to point out that this seems to be completely incoherent. You state that (a) information is entirely subjective, (b) facts are not subjective, and (c) information is not raw data. In order to reconcile (a) and (b), we must accept that (d) facts are not information, otherwise the subjectivity element is in contradiction. And in order to accept the "entirely" part of (a), we must go even further and accept that (e) information cannot consist of facts, even in part. But you seem to be equating facts with raw data in (c), which would then mean (e) could not be true.

For rules related to all media outlets distributing info related to the health and function of society... 1st amendment says that we can't make laws about that.

Nonsense. Precedent? The Fairness Doctrine itself. And while it has been rolled back, we nevertheless still have rules that abridge the 1st amendment that relates to all media outlets already. They've been argued in court, and are settled law. The Supreme Court has
decided that the First Amendment provides no protection for obscenity, child pornography, or speech that constitutes what has become widely known as “fighting words.” The Court has also decided that the First Amendment provides less than full protection to commercial speech, defamation (libel and slander), speech that may be harmful to children, speech broadcast on radio and television (as opposed to speech transmitted via cable or the Internet), and public employees’ speech.

Even speech that enjoys the most extensive First Amendment protection may be subject to “regulations of the time, place, and manner of expression which are content-neutral, are narrowly tailored to serve a significant government interest, and leave open ample alternative channels of communication.” Furthermore, even speech that enjoys the most extensive First Amendment protection may be restricted on the basis of its content if the restriction passes “strict scrutiny” (i.e., if the government shows that the restriction serves “to promote a compelling interest” and is “the least restrictive means to further the articulated interest”).
Maybe you have deeper knowledge of these matters than I do, and are casting your views in simplified terminology, but in general your arguments come across to me as, "It can't ever be that way because it isn't already that way and changes of this sort are entirely impermissible by law." But no matter how improbable the actual implementation of the ideas I'm putting forth may be, the legal aspect appears to be entirely within the realm of the plausible, and indeed the effort to bring about such changes would enjoy the advantage of clear legal precedent.

Just to bring this back around to election-related subject matter for anybody who has not been following this minor subthread, the idea being explored is whether a philosophical successor to the Fairness Doctrine could be founded on more narrowly defined principles to regulate communication that is vital to the health and functioning of our democratic processes, to limit misinformation and malinformation to acceptable levels.

Because, you know, it might be nice to see what can be done about the decades-long war on the very concept of consensual, fact-based reality, which does ongoing harm to our society and has made the idea of a Trump presidency conceivable.
posted by perspicio at 12:43 PM on October 23, 2016 [9 favorites]


You can't fucking have that anymore. No one should.

This is what the peak-oil climate change activists have been saying for years: the only real solutions, ones that involve a future that doesn't mean "billions of people die over the course of a few decades," doesn't involve tidy tricks like "solar power for everyone" (we really have been trying to make that work for decades), but cutting back on consumption. Change from 2.2 cars per family to 0.1 cars per family; change from 900 kwh/month to 100 kwh on average, and so on.

This is a drastic change in lifestyle, and of course any politician who promotes it is soundly rejected. And while loss of the middle-class dream of owning a house and two cars, kids off at college, 40+ year job with a single employer with retirement plan is not as drastic - telling people that no, that is no longer viable; you can't have it, and I'm not going to work toward legislation that lets you have it - gets politicians rejected.

It doesn't matter that that dream was founded on oppression of women and minorities that is becoming visible now; the people who want it, sometimes still don't see it - and certainly when they look back at the 50s, they don't see how the infrastructure was based on hidden oppressions.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 12:47 PM on October 23, 2016 [12 favorites]


GOP internal polling even worse than public polling.

@JohnJHarwood
senior GOP Senate strategist: "Trump now tied in Indiana. down 11 in PA and 14 in NH. going down hard"
posted by chris24 at 12:47 PM on October 23, 2016 [14 favorites]


Hillary Clinton's team put together a list of 140 terrible things Trump has said about women, with sources linked for most items:
A running list of all the worst things Donald Trump has said about women. It’s long.

He's overwhelmingly terrible as a human being.
posted by airish at 12:49 PM on October 23, 2016 [25 favorites]


> I'd like to see research studies at some point in the future about how this election has affected tertiary aspects of people's lives: productivity at work, heart health, binge drinking, road rage, domestic disputes, general outlook on life.

Well, I did a quick back-of-the-envelope based just on roughly how much time people on the MeFi 2016 election threads might have spent reading & writing them. Came up with something on the order of one millionth of the US annual GDP. So there's a start.

(Didn't try to factor in binge drinking, road rage, lost friendships, ruined relationships, etc - all that's well reported here and the total would undoubtedly be several times higher with it included, but so much harder to quantify on the back of my envelope . . . )
posted by flug at 12:50 PM on October 23, 2016 [7 favorites]


Aren't the Midwest, South, and Rust Belt the only parts of the US where it's relatively easy to live a middle class lifestyle (single income family, home ownership, etc) on roughly the American median income?

As someone living paycheck to paycheck in a major city, who will probably never own my own home and who is fucking boggled at how my partner and I will be able to afford one kid (let alone 3 or 4), I play the world's tiniest violin for these whiners.
posted by Sara C. at 12:57 PM on October 23, 2016 [15 favorites]


whether a philosophical successor to the Fairness Doctrine could be founded on more narrowly defined principles to regulate communication that is vital to the health and functioning of our democratic processes, to limit misinformation and malinformation to acceptable levels.

Who defines "communication that is vital to the health and functioning of our democratic processes?" Does that communication include private conversations between individuals? Does that include public Facebook posts? What about blog posts locked to a limited readership?

Does it include political content, but not science news? If the science news is about new encryption technology that might be used for electronic vote tallying, does it become political content?

If a news editorial says "[Donald Trump/Hillary Clinton] is a demagogue and displays many traits of a classic narcissist," whose responsibility is it to decide if that's accurate enough? Does it change if the statement is, "may display many traits" or "is alleged [by random doctor] to display...?"

I agree with the goal; I think implementation would be a nightmare that runs into too many freedom of speech issues, even if you could get enough legislators to support the idea.

Because, you know, it might be nice to see what can be done about the decades-long war on the very concept of consensual, fact-based reality

It would indeed. But I don't think that can be done by legislating the content of news reports and editorials; it has to start with education of the young and teaching critical thinking skills. That's the area where we should have stricter laws about what is and isn't acceptable - and that's an area where the first amendment is less applicable, because the courts have agreed that a useful education overrides parents' and communities' wishes to keep their kids enveloped in dogma. (In theory. Practice varies a lot.)
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 12:58 PM on October 23, 2016 [5 favorites]


Isn't there a conflict between the idea of a "great migration" of the exurban/rural middle class/lower middle class and the high and rising costs of urban life as the children of white flight flood back into cities? Where are these people who can afford a spacious house and two cars in the middle of nowhere supposed to migrate to that's less energy-wasteful and has access to public transport when DINK middle class/upper middle class couples are struggling to afford to buy in the city? What about struggling communities within cities - wouldn't migrating these more rural people increase the displacement and gentrification we're already concerned about?
posted by sallybrown at 1:05 PM on October 23, 2016 [26 favorites]


xyzzy:
I'm not saying that they should move away on their own. I'm suggesting that the government should help. A lot of people should be resettled, gradually, via positive incentivization. I'm not talking Stalin-esque resettlement and "re-education". Offer grants or tax credits for moving away. Whatever it takes. It would cost a lot of taxpayer money now, and save a lot of taxpayer money 50+ years from now.

We keep talking about infrastructure this election. So much of that infrastructure is there to support people who, out of this intoxicating mix of racism and near-religious wastefulness, choose to live in places where the cost vs. returns of infrastructure is embarassingly low. Why should the rest of the country pay large sums to maintain roads and electrical lines to places that have no reason to exist, other than out of a sense of entitlement? It is a government subsidy. It's middle-class redneck welfare of a scale and cost as great, if not greater, than any of the programs that these same people likely rail against( i.e. Planned Parenthood).

And when these places are abandoned, as many small midwestern towns will be soon enough, they will leave behind tremendous environmental hazards and damages.

Sallybrown: I didn't make that connection and that is a good point. I'm not advocating for the displacement of communities of colour and further gentrification. I think land-ownership and property need to undergo some reform of their own.
posted by constantinescharity at 1:07 PM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


The row of houses in back of me get into this decoration escalation during the holidays. Now all the houses are spooky scary Halloween themed with ghostly lights and all that. Except for one house. This one house has a Trump Pence sign and a giant flag. Nothing more.

I imagine having a dream where every time I look out that window, that Trump sign has come a little closer.
posted by angrycat at 1:10 PM on October 23, 2016 [38 favorites]


Aren't the Midwest, South, and Rust Belt the only parts of the US where it's relatively easy to live a middle class lifestyle (single income family, home ownership, etc) on roughly the American median income?

Getting: a) a job that b) pays enough income is the tricky part, especially in places that aren't big cities. I just spent 2 years in a town of 65K that's doing pretty well, and is actually sort of expanding its economic base, but with 18 years of experience in my field I was making under $20/hr and oversaw 8 people who all made under $15 for skilled office work requiring an associate's degree. So, you can imagine how much people are making without even that level of education.
posted by LionIndex at 1:11 PM on October 23, 2016 [10 favorites]


I happened to be in Times Square yesterday, and saw a homeless guy who had a sign that read: UNLESS YOU GIVE ME ONE DOLLAR I WILL VOTE FOR DONALD TRUMP.

One of the guys selling bottled water at the Union Square farmers' market during the heat wave sometime this summer or fall was yelling "Ice cold water here, colder than Donald Trump's heart!" as his barker spiel.
posted by oh yeah! at 1:11 PM on October 23, 2016 [32 favorites]


But yeah, housing was ridiculously cheaper than Southern California. We moved to Grand Rapids, where incomes are a bit better, and were able to get a 3BR/2BA house for under 200K based solely on my wife's employment contract, with a salary a bit under 60K.
posted by LionIndex at 1:14 PM on October 23, 2016


I happened to be in Times Square yesterday, and saw a homeless guy who had a sign that read: UNLESS YOU GIVE ME ONE DOLLAR I WILL VOTE FOR DONALD TRUMP.

Pretty sure that guy will end up richer than Donald Trump.
posted by Mitrovarr at 1:17 PM on October 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


> Does that communication include private conversations between individuals? Does that include public Facebook posts? What about blog posts locked to a limited readership?

I appreciate the wrinkles & challenges you raise. I wish I had time for a more sussed out response. But for now, as I said in my original comment,
Heightened regulations would kick in on a given information source when independent data collection & analysis demonstrates that a benchmark percentage of the public or raw number of citizens is receiving information from an unregulated source.
If we're having this conversation on the premise that it might be possible although difficult, that's one thing. It can be approached methodologically in that case. If the goal is to throw up obstacles at every turn to prove it can't be done, then that's not a discussion I care to have. Smacks of Republican "Government can't work, elect us and we'll prove it"-ism.
posted by perspicio at 1:19 PM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


It's not about whether it can be done, it's how vulnerable it is to bad actors. And contrary to the situation with welfare, suppressing political speech can do widespread damage.
posted by Zalzidrax at 1:23 PM on October 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


Quick follow-up via mobile. I like your positive ideas about education. I'm also interested in rock solid reasons the idea cannot work. "Sounds really hard" and "what about these six things therefore no way" don't quite do it for me though.
posted by perspicio at 1:25 PM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


sunset in snow country: I cannot believe that men whose grandparents were in the internment camps would think Hillary is "the same" as Trump.

One of the things I've really been startled with is how difficult it is for people to internalize Martin Niemöller's words when a generation has passed from the terror at hand, or the initial targets have changed.
"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me. "
I heard this as a child and this is so central to how I view the world; I'm always looking for the easy targets - who are the people who want to subjugate most of us going to go for first. They've already gone for "the illegals" while targeting LatinX people, and "the criminals" while targeting Black people, so their rhetoric has become more complex, but the basic structure of "when people start saying these people should be locked up, you're in line" remains. I'm far back in the line, being white and relatively affluent, but I'm still in this line.

I'm becoming more aware that a lot of people don't believe there's a line. Or they think there is a line, but they're not in it. Or they think there should be a line that they pick. I can recognize it as a line of thinking with assumptions and outcomes, but I really can't understand it.



xyzzy: Jeez, you'd think that Republicans would know the word "contra." We had this whole hearing with Oliver North that one time.

*hangs head* I assumed that was the name of something involved in it... I mean, I was a child when it was going on, but the idea "contra" was a Spanish word honestly never occurred to me. (Further shamefaced realizations upon looking up details deleted out of embarrassment.)




ErisLordFreedom
: Off the top of my head: tie it to the Social Security Number - if you're registered as a dependent on someone's taxes growing up, you're registered to vote when you turn 18.

There are no protections for them because it was meant to just be a tax thing, not used as National ID the way it is now. The SSA has as their best practices that SSIs should not be used as identifiers in any transaction. It's hard to contest things done to them, and they're central to identity theft.

A national ID system should include biometrics, be free, and have contingencies for everyone who is in the country (which SSIs don't have). Linking it through the Post Office (and adding in banking functions of the Post Office which exists in other countries) would revitalize those as well - a change of address could also serve as a change of voters registration with relative ease, centralize the Post Office around mail, identity, and basic services to help meet the needs of the poorest people in the country.

It also should still fall under the Fourth Amendment, where you're not required to produce it unless charge with a crime (which is more than the "crime" of not producing your ID or "resisting arrest" / "suspicious activity"). This is where a lot of the gutting of the fourth amendment stuff comes in. Right now it is legal for cops to arrest someone without naming the crime then charge them with "resisting arrest" which is nonsense. Making asking "why are you arresting me" a basic human right is literally why the Fourth Amendment exists. Fixing the Fourth Amendment is central to Racial Justice, though, so it might take a long while; pushing back against it currently isn't even discussed, much less taken seriously.



constantinescharity: Why should the rest of the country pay large sums to maintain roads and electrical lines to places that have no reason to exist, other than out of a sense of entitlement? It is a government subsidy.

1) r~ is a class-based slur

2) One advantage to improving the infrastructure is to decrease costs not only of moving between cities (i.e. high speed rail) but also improving the chances people can make a living outside of cities via remote work. Our current concentration in cities is making things unsustainable and leading to property bubble after bubble; spreading out more can help with that, especially with how huge our country actually is. Other infrastructure investments do the same thing - by making high speed internet universal, one forms the basis of more reliable trade, for example. The Highway system drives commerce, literally. We're losing tons of money because of the issues with our rail and pipe systems, both in the costs of accidents and in the cost of lost time.

3) We're already subsidizing the country from the cities, via both things we call benefits and things we don't. Farm subsidies, corn subsidies, etc... are all currently making money flow from the government to businesses without any advantages for the residents in those areas as they were mechanized out of jobs. We need to fix this, but it's hard and complicated.

4) The argument that benefits are good only when they go to people I approve of is never a good look. Everyone should benefit from living in the US.

5) Clinton has been quietly setting up the pieces to hire a ton of people in the middle of the country to work on infrastructure, and what infrastructure work means is jobs and the development of skills in local populations. This has a dual benefit of bringing hope and money to places without it, and addressing some of the structural pressures around the proliferation of drug use in the middle of the country (despair and poverty often drive drug use).
posted by Deoridhe at 1:26 PM on October 23, 2016 [42 favorites]


Why should the rest of the country pay large sums to maintain roads and electrical lines to places that have no reason to exist, other than out of a sense of entitlement?
I remember trekking into the Rockies to help set up internet points of presence for my company for communities that still didn't have plain old telephone service in the mid-90s. The government wasn't paying us; the residents were. Locally our rather remote Indian Reservation uses the output from its casino to subsidize infrastructure for the rest of the area in addition to its own. I also consulted for a millionaire who lived in the middle of nowhere who had to personally pay the county for road, sewage, and electricity expansion to his remote home. But my experiences are only anecdotal--I would welcome hard data that US infrastructure expenditure is an entitlement to privileged ruralites.
posted by xyzzy at 1:39 PM on October 23, 2016 [16 favorites]


Our current concentration in cities is making things unsustainable and leading to property bubble after bubble; spreading out more can help with that, especially with how huge our country actually is.

I'd clarify that we're trying to concentrate too much in too few cities rather than increasing transportation and housing density in other cities to achieve the same sustainability benefits that those few cities offer.
posted by LionIndex at 1:41 PM on October 23, 2016 [6 favorites]


the idea "contra" was a Spanish word honestly never occurred to me

It's Latin, and thus appears in many, many languages. Including English.
posted by effbot at 1:43 PM on October 23, 2016 [6 favorites]


Aren't the Midwest, South, and Rust Belt the only parts of the US where it's relatively easy to live a middle class lifestyle (single income family, home ownership, etc) on roughly the American median income?

Ish. If you go out into the burbs or live in a small town, then you need a car. Probably two cars. You'll probably need to commute or work remotely. Childcare remains an issue. There are a lot of pleasant and cheapish places to live that are also very much BYOJ.

I'm suggesting that the government should help. A lot of people should be resettled, gradually, via positive incentivization.

There were New Deal plans to reduce the population of the Great Plains though planned resettlement and prevent another Dust Bowl. Didn't go down well at all. The places you're talking about are sometimes ones with history going back multiple generations. The TVA's dammed reservoirs flooded out entire towns: there's been a long kerfuffle in Swain County, NC about the Road to Nowhere, meant to provide access for the displaced to their family cemeteries.

Dealing with contraction, major infrastructure changes or long-term economic shifts is a Hard Problem, whether it's in a big city like Detroit or small cities built around core industries or small rural towns: all of that pushes against the grand American narrative of turning landless immigrants into landowning (and land-improving) citizens.

The potential decay of the suburbs and especially exurbs will add to that, as residents age and become less independent. I think about the Sun Belt and huge Florida retirement communities like The Villages, which operate under strict HOA-style regulations, and it's not the pleasantest idea of voluntary resettlement.

So, resettlement... to where and to what? I don't think it's massively helpful to call it by the terms you're using.
posted by holgate at 1:45 PM on October 23, 2016 [8 favorites]


If we're having this conversation on the premise that it might be possible although difficult, that's one thing. It can be approached methodologically in that case.

I'm assuming it might be possible to put some kind of framework on political speech to require more fact-checking - maybe marking the difference between "we checked the details" and "this is an editorial," with different standards for paid and unpaid speech: if you're talking on your own dime, say whatever you like, within legal bounds; if you're being paid to say something, declare up front what biases could be influencing it - just like reviewers have to say if they received a product for free.

I don't think there's any way to actually require more facts, less drama-incitement in political news without gutting the first amendment. We have no foundation for deciding what counts as "news," and while 50 years ago, we might've decided what a "news outlet" is, once the internet is part of that equation it's a ridiculous mess.

As egregious as Trump's whole campaign is, I don't want us to enact laws against lying in public; I would expect those to be used to support established privilege more than challenge it. And that's a lot of the problem with the current campaign: Trump says something false and outrageous, he gets called on it, and says "that's what I believe" or "that's what I plan to do" or, in the case of offensive things, "that's not what I really meant." While there's been some false-equiv reporting, the media orgs are not the reason he's got 20-40% of the country voting for him, and fixing news requirements won't change their minds - that block of voters will just go back to barely-visible, reached only with dog whistles.

I think we could work toward laws that require different metadata: corporate ownership of an outlet might need to be declared; names of board members for public orgs and various bits of info about private ones; fact-check details about the article available on demand. (Not names of informers, but info about whether there actually are informers, whether the piece was investigated or put together from other news sources, etc.)

And if that were combined with better education requirements, such that everyone with an 8th grade education had some basic critical thinking skills and the ability to spot a handful of logical fallacies, we'd have much more policy-based, less emotion-driven political campaigns.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 1:55 PM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


In 1947 there was a movie with Jimmy Stewart and Jane Wyman (at that time the wife of Ronald Reagan) called Magic Town. Hillary was born the same month as when it came out. This is a partial summary of the plot from IMDB:

Rip Smith's opinion-poll business is a failure...until he discovers that the small town of Grandview is statistically identical to the entire country. He and his assistants go there to run polls cheaply and easily, in total secrecy (it would be fatal to let the townsfolk get self-conscious).

The townspeople do discover the importance of their opinions and in one of the next surveys, they declare a woman can become president. Jimmy Stewart cites this as proof that the town's opinions are now worthless.

Otherwise, kind of a fun, hokey old movie.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 1:56 PM on October 23, 2016 [25 favorites]


Curt Schilling's weirdo interview with Jake Tapper and his pathetic Trump rally have already paid off: Curt Schilling Joins Breitbart. He'll have a daily hourlong call-in political show after being kicked off ESPN for sharing a transphobic meme on Facebook.

Well I just found out what I'm doing in 2018. Fighting this asshole tooth and nail so that he bombs in MA so hard he'll never want to be seen in politics again.
posted by Talez at 1:56 PM on October 23, 2016 [16 favorites]


Curt Schilling couldn't get too far in normal MA politics, imho. Read into his history of bilking Rhode Island to make a failed video game. That's rich, publically available oppo that I think even Republican donors would shy away from. Look how long it took Trump to get traditional donor support.
posted by xyzzy at 2:06 PM on October 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


> I've mentioned it before but this is a popular shirt in my Native American activist friends' circles these days.

Ha, it should probably say "Colonialists" though
posted by kleinsteradikaleminderheit at 2:08 PM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


I was working on a long comment about the future of The Deplorables Movement and how they'll have to find as a leader another celebrity with a lack of political experience. Curt Schilling is obvious the leading candidate there.

But then, maybe Terry "My Stage Name Is Stolen From Marvel Comics" Bollea might use some of his lawsuit winnings to build a campaign. (And there are always more Fake Wrestler Personalities in the pipeline)

One of the "Quiet" Hollywood Republicans who isn't getting work right now might decide this is his dream role. I noticed James Woods is currently being a public asshole with Lisa Bloom, one of the lawyers working with Trump's accusers (It's a totally separate case, but this could be his 'Birther' in-road)
posted by oneswellfoop at 2:08 PM on October 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


I voted early in Durham today! The early voting lines here have been very long. I waited in line for over an hour, and early voting has been open for a few days and will remain open until November 5.

I moved to North Carolina less than two months ago, and I'll say that the Democrat/liberal groups here have really worked to educate people on who to vote for all down the ballot if you're a left-leaning person. There were about 30 different offices to vote for, along with four referenda, so I really appreciated that.
posted by bananana at 2:10 PM on October 23, 2016 [14 favorites]


Hillary Clinton's team put together a list of 140 terrible things Trump has said about women

Number 30: On a comedian: “[She’s] disgusting, I mean, both inside and out. You take a look at her, she’s a slob. She talks like a—like a truck driver. She doesn’t have her facts. She’ll say anything that comes to her mind.”

Replace she with he and Trump provides an honest description of himself.
posted by juiceCake at 2:11 PM on October 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


I moved to North Carolina less than two months ago, and I'll say that the Democrat/liberal groups here have really worked to educate people on who to vote for all down the ballot if you're a left-leaning person.

Do you know of any good guides to the NC nonpartisan judge candidates?
posted by thelonius at 2:18 PM on October 23, 2016


I'm thinking that the next leader of The Deplorables is going to be someone from inside politics with more savvy than Trump and far less skeletons. Picture a Mike Pence with more smarts and charisma. That's what we're going to have to watch for on the horizon.
posted by Ber at 2:19 PM on October 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


Very fun Pantsuit Flashmob in NC this morning
posted by colt45 at 2:21 PM on October 23, 2016 [11 favorites]


Doeridhe:

1) You're right. I was maybe speaking with a bit of frustration. Truth be told, I don't think a lot of people out there in the boonies are actually all that poor. While poverty is a big factor in some places, in others, as was pointed out elsewhere, these people live comfortably, wage-wise. Not rich, but not poor. It's also different when their cost of living can be much lower. I think some of the anger in rural areas is actually one of having their frivolous, relatively-privileged lifestyle threatened, not one of destitution. That and racism. I'm convinced both from personal experience and second-hand experience that it is a primary factor.

2) Living in cities is mostly unsustainable due to the way property is controlled. Public housing is one answer. Reforming the way landholding works, and introducing rent controls can help. Maybe we need to recognise that living space, at least in its basest form as a small apartment, is a utility. These are human and policy issues not material ones. Not efficiency ones. Huge problems that, as a young person, maybe I have naively strong opinions about. Nonetheless I think there are easier solutions in that case.

ex: Rent control, or so I saw on another MeFi thread, is actually one of the things that makes Tokyo livable on a median wage.

Living in the boonies is unsustainable on monetary, material and energy grounds. It simply costs more, in absolute terms, to support communities out there. It is, in essence, an overvaluation of their lives vs. people in the cities. While welfare and other programs are undermined, we are expected to blow cash on those folks so that they can live in profligate defiance of heterogenous society? We are supposed to subsidize holding land for no reason other than to have lots of tree-cleared, useless fields to gloat over? I'm supposed to let my tax dollars pay for what are sometimes essentially refuges of segregation, where a significant factor is their not wanting to live near any city involves the invocation of racist stereotypes? The only reason people live out there in such numbers in the first place is because of a unique, one-time (though admittedly long-winded) boom in the local economies.

That land could be left to perform one of the simplest methods of carbon capture available - reforestation/return of grasslands. Just because there is lots of land out there doesn't mean that we should waste it. That is exactly what I am getting at in being critical of the kind of land usage one sees in these communities. They apply a philosophy of land misuse and arbitrary appropriation.

Why should we pave more of it over, and continue to emphasize inefficient methods of transportation with serious weaknesses, like cars? Cars require so much infrastructure, and then subsequent support. Getting between major cities could be, for the most part, eventually replaced by high capacity, high speed rail or other methods. The money that would otherwise be going to projects like that could be better spent on improving city infrastructure. If transport in major cities is shit right now, why should we prioritize handfuls of people over the millions in need? A city with fewer cars, more light rail/buses, and huge parks/public spaces (on the scale of dozens of acres) sounds much more amicably quiet and livable to me.

And projects to build huge infrastructure like that will set us up for the same problem in another few decades. We'll feel reluctant to maintain these structures, and then need to replace them again at high cost.
Or we'll be blowing countless millions on upkeep for strings of dwindling towns with populations that number under five thousand.

What you're talking about is ditch-digging to sustain these communities. The government shouldn't be paying for work on their own communities. If they want these roads, they should pay themselves with that money they don't have. I don't want to pay the wages of recalcitrant borderline white separatists/nationalists.

And for those that remain, maybe sections of reclaimed areas could be devoted to managed forestry. That way those few that do really love rural areas might be able to stay.

3) I agree, that's an issue. Corn subsidies are terrible and do rob the locals of that money. That being said, agricultural jobs aren't going to reappear in the absence of those subsidies. Even in the scenario of a farming boom, those jobs would continue to be mechanized. De-mechanizing those jobs would increase costs and cause food supply issues.

A lot of farmland in the Midwest is going to dry up in the next 50-80 years anyways, thanks to our over-use of fossil water. We've already set so many of these areas on track to be unlivable in the coming century, so why hand them an IV of cash and infrastructure?

4) This is not what I am saying. Yes, I don't like the habits and ideologies of folks in these places. I see them as sad, and in need of outreach. I do not want to punish them. Rather, I want to better integrate them into our society by bringing them physically closer while reducing the drain that they place on our nation's coffers. To riff on Hillary's slogan, I think we really are stronger together.

Beyond that, I want to restate that they are an environmental disaster waiting to happen. Many small towns and cities will clear out, and all that will be left behind is contaminated ground and water; rows of decaying structures too polluted to be reclaimed by nature alone. Cleaning that up will take a tremendous cost. If we dismantle these places now, it will save us from having the middle of the country look like the settings of post-apocalyptic fiction.
posted by constantinescharity at 2:26 PM on October 23, 2016 [7 favorites]


Do you know of any good guides to the NC nonpartisan judge candidates?

Indy Week's endorsements were the most thoroughly explained I saw.

The Durham Democratic Women posted this blue card, which basically agrees with Indy Week aside from not endorsing a district court judge for district 14 because both candidates are Democrats.
posted by bananana at 2:26 PM on October 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


I'm thinking that the next leader of The Deplorables is going to be someone from inside politics with more savvy than Trump and far less skeletons. Picture a Mike Pence with more smarts and charisma.

Deplorables don't trust the party, which is why they went for Trump in the first place. To the extent they trust anyone inside the party (unlikely), and to the extent they remain a cohesive bloc in four years (who knows), they won't trust anyone who worked against Trump.

Meanwhile, the GOP, to the extent it exists in national form in 4 years, won't trust anyone who worked for Trump, and will be at the ready for outsiders.

These two groups will continue to have clashing motivations. They're not going to be able to back the same person, I don't think.
posted by sallybrown at 2:32 PM on October 23, 2016 [11 favorites]


I'm thinking that the next leader of The Deplorables is going to be someone from inside politics with more savvy than Trump and far less skeletons. Picture a Mike Pence with more smarts and charisma. That's what we're going to have to watch for on the horizon.

I wouldn't worry too hard about this.

1. The next guy will have demographics even further against him.

2. You can't really have a deplorable with no skeletons. A big part of Trump's appeal to his followers is that he speaks his mind, all the time. You don't get that attitude together with a lifetime of good behavior. Essentially, you'd have to lack all self-control and have it at the same time.

3. In four years, they're trying to unseat an incumbent. In eight years, they don't get to benefit from Clinton derangement syndrome.
posted by Mitrovarr at 2:32 PM on October 23, 2016 [14 favorites]


I'm thinking that the next leader of The Deplorables is going to be someone from inside politics with more savvy than Trump and far less skeletons. Picture a Mike Pence with more smarts and charisma.

I totally agree with you but reading it was chilling. I really hope I don't end up in the 2020 election thread feeling the "You thought you knew Hitler 2.0 in 2016 but you didn't even know..."
posted by MCMikeNamara at 2:32 PM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


Had my GOTV canvassing "date" this morning. It was pretty fun: we went to an area of town with a lot of Middle Eastern immigrants, including a number of former refugees who are now citizens, so it was very multicultural. He was surprised and intrigued, since he had no idea such neighborhoods even existed in Phoenix, although he was born and raised here.

Volunteering is educational!

Several people had already mailed in their ballots, so I made sure they knew how to check the status. We handed out information on county-level candidates and early voting locations and ended up walking about four miles, which isn't much in my experience (a side effect of doing only apartment complexes, I guess). He didn't hold it against me when I refused to allow him to pretend we were not just gathering and sharing voting information, but also investigating a murder, "to up the stakes."
He's coming along again next weekend, so I guess our canvassing operation was an overall success.
posted by Superplin at 2:35 PM on October 23, 2016 [49 favorites]


In eight years, they don't get to benefit from Clinton derangement syndrome.

It's been a long, long time since 1992, and the end of our long national nightmare of CDS is in sight... I worry about where all the free-form rage will end up however, but that's a worry for another day.
posted by mikelieman at 2:35 PM on October 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


I do think some of misogynistic foundations of people disliking her both conscious and most importantly unconscious will dissipate over Clinton's time as President.

America loves women like Hillary Clinton–as long as they’re not asking for a promotion
Public opinion of Clinton has followed a fixed pattern throughout her career. Her public approval plummets whenever she applies for a new position. Then it soars when she gets the job. The wild difference between the way we talk about Clinton when she campaigns and the way we talk about her when she’s in office can’t be explained as ordinary political mud-slinging. Rather, the predictable swings of public opinion reveal Americans’ continued prejudice against women caught in the act of asking for power.
posted by kirkaracha at 2:40 PM on October 23, 2016 [34 favorites]


Accepting for the moment that Trump's appeal to a certain chunk of humanity can be accurately described as charisma, was there anyone running for office under the Republican banner this year who had either actual charisma or Trumpian charisma?
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:40 PM on October 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


constantinescharity

Nebraska (not boonie) resident here. Let me know before you send the bulldozers in so I can get my Clinton-voting tax-paying liberal Democrat family out of your way. Maybe I'll even warn some of my conservative neighbors who are in fact all real people, not NPCs in whatever world designing video game you think this is.

(Midwesterner for life.)
posted by that's how you get ants at 2:44 PM on October 23, 2016 [91 favorites]


Rather, the predictable swings of public opinion reveal Americans’ continued prejudice against women caught in the act of asking for power.

That may be the most succinct I've ever heard that put. Just mentioned it to the wife, who said, "hmpf. Maybe we should stop asking, then."
posted by Mooski at 2:46 PM on October 23, 2016 [20 favorites]


I got my call from a phonebanker today...I feel kind of bad because I could tell she was nervous and I totally threw her off her script.

"Hi, I'm calling from Hillary for America and"
"Oh cool, hi!"
"I'm call...um hi. I'm calling [etc about upcoming voting date, hope we can count on your support, etc.]"
"I've already voted by mail and you guys got my vote!"
"That's great! Thank you for your support, have a nice day"
"Thank you for volunteering!"
"Good b...oh thank you um thanks. Good bye."
posted by phunniemee at 2:49 PM on October 23, 2016 [46 favorites]


I'm thinking that the next leader of The Deplorables is going to be someone from inside politics with more savvy than Trump and far less skeletons. Picture a Mike Pence with more smarts and charisma. That's what we're going to have to watch for on the horizon.


Tom "Terriying Apparition" Cotton
posted by schadenfrau at 2:50 PM on October 23, 2016 [5 favorites]


I really hope I don't end up in the 2020 election thread feeling the "You thought you knew Hitler 2.0 in 2016 but you didn't even know..."

You will. Peak Wingnut, from those heady days of October 2008, is a nice reminder this hope will not come to pass anytime soon.
posted by honestcoyote at 2:54 PM on October 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


Nebraska (not boonie) resident here. Let me know before you send the bulldozers in so I can get my Clinton-voting tax-paying liberal Democrat family out of your way. Maybe I'll even warn some of my conservative neighbors who are in fact all real people, not NPCs in whatever world designing video game you think this is.

(Midwesterner for life.)


Thank you. Your snark saved my head from exploding after reading that.

Hey, constantinescharity, maybe think about spending some time in the "boonies" before determining we are all out here " liv(ing) in profligate defiance of heterogenous society?"
posted by Preserver at 2:58 PM on October 23, 2016 [54 favorites]


Truth be told, I don't think a lot of people out there in the boonies are actually all that poor.
Statistically speaking, rural poverty outpaces national poverty.
posted by xyzzy at 2:58 PM on October 23, 2016 [9 favorites]


Trump in Naples, FL just now: This Podesta is a nasty guy. I wouldn't want someone talking like me... [realizes his slip] ...about me, behind my back. This guy is such a walking psychological case study.
posted by XMLicious at 2:58 PM on October 23, 2016 [26 favorites]


So many folks out there in the Midwest and similar areas are pro-Trump because living where they live, a middle-class life is increasingly unsustainable. Maybe they shouldn't be living there anymore. Maybe they should be questioning their ideal lifestyles. If you want to live in a rural area, or in low-density towns and suburbs where there is only one primary industry, and the maintenance of all your land, housing and belongings is expensive, then maybe that is the real problem.
I mean, I actually moved to the non-big-city Midwest for purely economic reasons, and part of the reason that I'm staying here is that I'm not at all convinced that I could earn enough to live on if I moved back to a big city. The other part is that I like it here. There are some pretty awesome things about living here.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 3:01 PM on October 23, 2016 [20 favorites]


Speaking of how far the Republican Party has fallen, here's a debate on illegal immigration between Trump, Reagan, and George H.W Bush.
posted by honestcoyote at 3:02 PM on October 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


that's how you get ants:

I said that I wanted it to be a gradual process, through positive incentives. Bribe people, essentially. It would take several decades, I imagine. You'd have to provide a hell of a sweet deal, too. Really, it is the desire to streamline and ease a process that will take place naturally.

If you're in a town of five thousand people, and two thousand take the deal, I'm hoping it wouldn't be long before the rest leave of their own volition. If they don't, then that's okay. I did not and would never suggest force. Without government capitulating into giving them ridiculous ditch-digging jobs, the population won't rebound.

Dismantling homes and other edifices as folks leave prevents contamination of the ground. The alternative is letting things rot and leach all sorts of lovely things into the soil. Then the government takes the land and bars agribusiness from eating it up. Finally, maybe 150 years from now, it can be a national park. Or huge swaths of connected parkland that snake across the country, sequestering carbon and providing beautiful places for anyone and everyone to visit. True wilderness.
posted by constantinescharity at 3:04 PM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


Picture a Mike Pence with more smarts and charisma. That's what we're going to have to watch for on the horizon.

Seriously, it's gonna be Rubio.

I'm not sure how they get around the racism/anti-immigrant angle, but my nightmare is that Rubio is taking notes on what worked about the Trump campaign, and that he's going to add all that to his telegenic and competent exterior to create a true fascist who actually has a chance of winning an election.

All the more reason to unseat him now.
posted by Sara C. at 3:05 PM on October 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


Peggy Noonan had an op-ed in the WSJ yesterday (may be pay walled) considering a sane Donald Trump. I found her rosey view of his support interesting.
Mr. Trump’s great historical role was to reveal to the Republican Party what half of its own base really thinks about the big issues. The party’s leaders didn’t know! They were shocked, so much that they indulged in sheer denial and made believe it wasn’t happening.

The party’s leaders accept more or less open borders and like big trade deals. Half the base does not! It is longtime GOP doctrine to cut entitlement spending. Half the base doesn’t want to, not right now! Republican leaders have what might be called assertive foreign-policy impulses. When Mr. Trump insulted George W. Bush and nation-building and said he’d opposed the Iraq invasion, the crowds, taking him at his word, cheered. He was, as they say, declaring that he didn’t want to invade the world and invite the world. Not only did half the base cheer him, at least half the remaining half joined in when the primaries ended.
Note the 'invite the world' that is slipped in there out of nowhere. That's how you do racism, but it's not going to fire up the crowd.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 3:06 PM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


I guess I don't know enough about voter rights legislation but I thought this kind of stuff was illegal.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 3:07 PM on October 23, 2016




My family has lived in the same place since we moved here from wales more than three hundred years ago.

You think they're going to move?
posted by winna at 3:12 PM on October 23, 2016 [24 favorites]


constantinescharity

If your job involves sitting in a chair in front of a computer, it doesn't actually matter in what part of the country you live.
posted by teirnon at 3:12 PM on October 23, 2016 [6 favorites]


constantinescharity

I'm sorry, I'm still stuck on the part where all the food and energy production for this cities-and-forests future is coming from. Not to mention the very real ties to land that people have out there. It's not all just suburban strip malls or whatever. (*waves* Hi, Midwestern-ex-pat here. I grew up in a city where cornfields were at the end of the block and ten miles out was farm country. The problems back there are way more complicated than this and honestly, talk like this only exacerbates the rural-urban divide that's really common.)

The infrastructure that's currently crumbling out there was built for a reason. Hell, I'd love to see how we'd just do transport and freight across the country, without the settled rural areas to actually support that.
posted by ultranos at 3:13 PM on October 23, 2016 [35 favorites]


Trump, or, as a dear friend calls him, The Human Colostomy Bag, is an MLM scamster at heart.

Too right, and even more true if you leave out "at heart" - he just is. I was unemployed/underemployed for over a year during our lovely Great Recession, going to regular career fairs and workshops to brush up on networking skills and learn how to compete for the quickly dwindling pool of available jobs. Like you do.

One of the meetings I went to pretty much every week was held at a church in an affluent suburb. They had good guest speakers and free baked goods to take home, so why not? While there I had the misfortune to be pitched by someone trying to climb the money ladder at ACN (I'll let Wikipedia fill you in). While I had serious misgivings, he kept insisting it wasn't a pyramid scheme and that I could learn more at a Saturday workshop. I told him I'd think about it.

Saturday rolled around, and hey, I wasn't doing anything else. I drove downtown to the meeting, which was in a conference room in some nondescript under-rented (hey, Great Recession) office building. The whole room just dripped with grease and snake oil. The main speaker was a preacher who had seen the light about ACN, had joined, and now was making lots of money. (In my head: "nice new god you've got there, buddy! How's the old one feel about that?") Then we watched a video that made clear that the product we were selling was secondary in importance to getting people under your wing so you could rack up the sweet sweet residuals. (As an aside: the thought of inviting friends over to my house for "no reason in particular" and then springing a sales pitch on them makes me a bit queasy.)

After the video came the punchline: the top salesmakers in each region got to go to ACN's annual conference, and this year the keynote speaker was Donald Trump! Isn't that EXCITING? The man himself! The adoration was intense.

It wasn't the most fun I've ever had on a Saturday morning, but I sure learned a lot.

Finally: Some light reading. [WSJ]
posted by pianoblack at 3:15 PM on October 23, 2016 [9 favorites]


I said that I wanted it to be a gradual process, through positive incentives. Bribe people, essentially. It would take several decades, I imagine. You'd have to provide a hell of a sweet deal, too. Really, it is the desire to streamline and ease a process that will take place naturally.

If you're in a town of five thousand people, and two thousand take the deal, I'm hoping it wouldn't be long before the rest leave of their own volition. If they don't, then that's okay. I did not and would never suggest force. Without government capitulating into giving them ridiculous ditch-digging jobs, the population won't rebound.


I'm not sure you've actually thought this plan through. OK. So you want to take people away from a regional area and send them towards urban areas. Who's going to buy their old houses? They can't sell them. The government? Are you going to screw them by paying market? Or are you going to give them a price that lets them establish themselves in a high priced urban area? If you're going to give people half a million to let them get started in an urban area that 2000 people just cost you a billion bucks to move. Either that or you can send the people into the city with $80K in their pockets and say "good luck".

Then once people cotton on to the plan do you have a way to stop speculators? They'll pick up cheap houses, wait for the government to come along and buy their "residence" and then take the profits back to the city.

This is before you get started triggering all the Agenda 21 bullshit that these people are terrified about.

This is the know-it-all technocratic liberalism that gets a bad name for itself in rural/conservative circles. There are no easy answers to these problems. Please stop for the good of the left.
posted by Talez at 3:16 PM on October 23, 2016 [97 favorites]


constantinescharity

If what you mean to say is "we should incentivize moving to coastal cities" you can do that without disparaging the millions of Americans between NYC and LA. And meanwhile, we'll be here holding down the fort, maintaining the infrastructure, and growing the food for when those same coastal cities are underwater. See you then.

From sea to shining sea.
posted by that's how you get ants at 3:20 PM on October 23, 2016 [33 favorites]


The battle for the Senate has narrowed to these 6 states
The Senate will be won, insiders say, in a half-dozen states that could go either way on Election Day: The traditional swing states of Nevada, Pennsylvania and New Hampshire, and the newly competitive states of North Carolina, Missouri and Indiana, which historically lean Republican.
posted by kirkaracha at 3:21 PM on October 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


constantinescharity

you know all the paranoid talk from fringers about agenda 21? - the wacko thought that the u n and the u s are plotting to depopulate rural areas by force?

here you are actually arguing FOR such a thing

do you realize there's people out there already arming themselves against your idea?

also, looking over the news of the day, it's not the midwest that seems to be falling apart in this country or becoming unworkable to live in due to economics

maybe you guys should move HERE
posted by pyramid termite at 3:24 PM on October 23, 2016 [24 favorites]


"solar power for everyone" (we really have been trying to make that work for decades),

"We" who? Not the oil and coal companies, who to this day are pushing ways to throw sand in the gears of all non-fossil-fuel energy sources. If we had really gone after solar from the beginning, we'd have it by now. Or don't you know about the ugly celebrating when Reagan took the solar panels off the White House because it pleased the oil interests? The coal-rolling attitude isn't new.

Solar power generation/transmission (with remote places having their own units/small plants) + cheap wifi infrastruture build up (instead of being hamstrung by the big telco companies) would make living in rural areas much easier for lots of people. And they could live more sustainably and drive less and drive electric cars that polluted less, if we pushed for it.

If we focused on energy independence and reducing pollution like we did on the moon landing, we'd be a lot further ahead. We still can do that, if we have the will.

I don't believe that we can or should aim for everyone in giant cities with the middle of the country depopulated. We can aim for better ways of living that don't poison the planet. That's where we need to start.
posted by emjaybee at 3:26 PM on October 23, 2016 [19 favorites]


From the "light reading" link:
“I think the ACN video phone is amazing,” Mr. Trump said in an ACN news release just before a two-hour, prime time Sunday night Celebrity Apprentice episode on the product in 2011. “I simply can’t imagine anybody using this phone and not loving it.”

Even before the show aired, the ACN video phone was in trouble. It sold poorly in part because it only worked with other ACN video phones, unlike Skype’s video-calling technology. The company had slashed orders for the phone from its supplier, which laid off 70% of its staff just before the show aired and later filed to liquidate in federal bankruptcy court, according to regulatory filings.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 3:27 PM on October 23, 2016 [7 favorites]


constantinescharity

I'm sorry. I make it a point not to snark or pile on but I had a dose of migraine medicine go strange on me today and I'm feeling weird. I still disagree with you but here is a real Miswestern apology from me to you.
posted by that's how you get ants at 3:29 PM on October 23, 2016 [5 favorites]


"we should incentivize moving to coastal cities"

But we already are doing that! The major problem of rural America is that the lack of jobs there, the availability of jobs in coastal cities, and the increased opportunities that go along with those jobs, have created a brain drain.

I suppose that one possible solution to that brain drain is just to move everyone en masse to the cities, but that seems hideously inefficient compared to the many other options that exist.

Rural Ohio isn't an inherently unlivable waste that people need to be evacuated from. It's just that it's hard to find a job there.
posted by Sara C. at 3:32 PM on October 23, 2016 [25 favorites]


Or huge swaths of connected parkland that snake across the country, sequestering carbon and providing beautiful places for anyone and everyone to visit.

And will there be gas stations, hotels, campgrounds, restaurants, visitor centers, ski lodges, etc. within this continent-wide swath of wilderness across four time zones? And if so... who, exactly, will staff them and supply them, and provide them with water and power, and maintain the roads?
posted by the return of the thin white sock at 3:37 PM on October 23, 2016 [17 favorites]


If your job involves sitting in a chair in front of a computer, it doesn't actually matter in what part of the country you live.

I've been freelance for years using a computer but it still very much matters what part of the country I live in because only the cities, and a select few, offer affordable high speed Internet, particularly high upload speeds.
posted by juiceCake at 3:37 PM on October 23, 2016 [6 favorites]


pianoblack:

After the video came the punchline: the top salesmakers in each region got to go to ACN's annual conference, and this year the keynote speaker was Donald Trump! Isn't that EXCITING? The man himself! The adoration was intense.

It wasn't the most fun I've ever had on a Saturday morning, but I sure learned a lot.


Oh man. Even the National Review (National Review!) said, back in March:

Trump’s Multi-Level Marketing Telecom Endorsement Is Another Example of His Terrible Judgement
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 3:38 PM on October 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


The stereotype of rural residents as uniformly white, conservative, racist, "deplorables" if you will, is false. Many rural residents are liberal, others are conservative but would never consider voting for Trump, and, most of all, there are many people of color in rural America. From the link: "more than half of all Native Americans reside in rural or small town areas." Especially for the Native rural people, this is their land, and has been their land for hundreds of years. The Native American Relocation Acts in the 1950's didn't really go well - displaced Native Americans went from rural poverty to urban poverty on top of having their cultures stripped away from them.

I think people should be free to move, and, if moving to the nearest city will help some people find jobs and a better life, that's great, and it wouldn't hurt to help them move. But "relocating" people willy-nilly is so fraught with potential for abuse that I think it's a terrible idea. I'm more in favor of seeing opportunities and infrastructure (and a guaranteed basic income!) move to where the people are. Many people have legitimate reasons for staying.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 3:39 PM on October 23, 2016 [37 favorites]


HRC just mentioned Hamilton in her speech!
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 3:40 PM on October 23, 2016 [6 favorites]


thats how you get ants: Thank you from my Midwest, suburb-living, 2-car having, Clinton voting and volunteering, left-wing family for pointing out that we're not all caricatures of Billy Hayseed out here. While constantinecharity's Cascadiaopolis urban utopia might work in a game or a sci-fi novel, in reality, there are advantages and disadvantages to living just about anywhere, and to say that all Midwesterners are simply a drain on the tax dollars of the upstanding urbanites seems highly short-sighted. (Not to mention that there ARE actually urban areas out here in flyover country, regardless of what vision you may have in your head of cows and cornfields.). In short, don't apologize. :-)
posted by jferg at 3:41 PM on October 23, 2016 [18 favorites]


> If you're in a town of five thousand people, and two thousand take the deal, I'm hoping it wouldn't be long before the rest leave of their own volition.

The citizens of Centralia, PA were ordered to leave, and bribed to leave, their land has been claimed by eminent domain, the Post Office has invalidated their zip code, and are literally living on top of a toxic coal fire and there are still a bunch that flatly refuse to leave.

Do not ever underestimate the intransigence of people who feel emotional attachment to a place that's stronger than all material evidence regarding its livability. Or are so firmly entrenched in their conspiracy theories that they will compromise their own lives out of sheer cussedness.
posted by ardgedee at 3:41 PM on October 23, 2016 [37 favorites]


An insightful comparison of Trump to horrible 90's television. I had completely forgotten that Dinosaurs ever existed. Can I have the same hope for my memories of this election cycle?
posted by meinvt at 3:42 PM on October 23, 2016 [8 favorites]


Waitaminute, I ENJOYED "Dinosaurs" (just not the Trumpian boss, and he was actually funny, unlike Deplorable Donald). It was one of the last Henson Productions that Jim Henson had a creative role in before his untimely death. And when it was cancelled, it had a final episode in which the entire dinosaur society went extinct, NOT due to a giant meteor, but due to their own environmental destruction. One of the greatest not-very-successful series in the history of TV. Not The Mama.
posted by oneswellfoop at 3:51 PM on October 23, 2016 [54 favorites]


Rural Ohio isn't an inherently unlivable waste that people need to be evacuated from. It's just that it's hard to find a job there.
Also, a lot of the Midwest isn't rural. It's not like there's New York, LA, and an endless mass of farmland in between.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 3:52 PM on October 23, 2016 [26 favorites]


Yeah, you're not going to get people to move, and we shouldn't abandon people who can't, in either our hearts, minds, or just...reality.

But most of the western US is actually inherently uninhabitable. Our water policy is basically insane amounts of water welfare to states that were developed around the existence of said welfare, and is totally unsustainable. And we coastal city people have been lectured for basically ever about how those otherwise uninhabitable places where we send our tax dollars are the REAL America, with REAL values that just happen to shit all over the people in the cities who pay for them.

It's not really a great arrangement. And it's definitely not sustainable. I don't have any solutions, but it seems like sustainable development and infrastructure has got to be part of anything that even looks like a solution.

(I have no idea what to do about the western water welfare states. That is...oh man that is an intractable problem.)
posted by schadenfrau at 3:55 PM on October 23, 2016 [11 favorites]


My view is that hope has not much to do with it; there's a significant bloc of voters in this country that genuinely hold these views and they seem to be relatively impervious to any appeal to logic, reason, faith, emotion, authority, justice, loving-kindness or shared humanity as far as I can see

That honestly hasn't been my experience. From what I've seen, Trump voters can be converted, it just needs an exhausting amount of effort to do so and so it's slow going.
posted by corb at 3:58 PM on October 23, 2016 [13 favorites]


Not The Mama.

Literally the only thing I remember about that show. Hopefully "Build that wall" will become the equivalent for this one.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 3:58 PM on October 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


I've been freelance for years using a computer but it still very much matters what part of the country I live in because only the cities, and a select few, offer affordable high speed Internet, particularly high upload speeds.

Plus the geeks in a city can go to endless meetups - I could get about half my meals gratis at meetups if I really dedicated myself to learning everything about computers, webdev and sysadmin. Plus I get all of the in person networking opportunities you could ever want (or not want if you're introverted). At every talk I go to there is active recruiting.

You don't get that when you are rural.
posted by srboisvert at 3:59 PM on October 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


that's how you get ants:
I apologise myself. I don't comment that often because I'm not the greatest writer. Haven't really been that together since I fell on my head last year (literally).

I don't feel this way solely out of a technocratic liberalism. I do have a very serious environmentalist streak in me and I think that the kind of wastefulness that exists in a lifestyle that involves huge land holdings and rampant consumerism enabled by high wages is bad. The impression I get is that a significant segment of people who live in rural areas, especially those once supported by factories and mills, do yearn for that.

Our attitude towards land use in general is god-awful and it makes me truly angry. We don't have all this space to waste, and we destroy the land by paving it over and covering it with things that we will probably leave to rot. Cities are dumps for human beings. That's my approach. We're a horrid thing, and the least we can do is concentrate the majority of us, our byproducts and garbage, into small spaces where those things are manageable, or, in the best cases, recyclable. Spreading ourselves, our inevitably decaying buildings, and our garbage across the US in a thin screen makes me feel sad.

It's a privilege, too. A profound one; to think that wide tracks of land belong to you and not those who were murdered to give it to your great grandfather a meagre hundred years before. I think taking that away does a lot to dispelling white supremist myths. Get rid of the hall of worship for those that indirectly celebrate indigenous genocide. So much of rural America is wildly racist, and it's no coincidence. Foundations of genocide lead to fantasies of defending oneself from "urban youths" that are invariably of non-white backgrounds.

I want to repatriate a lot of that land to Americans at large, instead of letting it be carved up and polluted. It's a matter of 50-80 years before half the midwest is destroyed by environmental degradation and natural population movement, probably. I'm just suggesting we anticipate that, and clean up as we move out. Put the land into public trust and prevent its further exploitation. Turn those shrines of "kitschy opulence in abundance"; nostalgia for the unspoken opression of the American Dream, into national parks and treasures. Bonus points for carbon capture.
posted by constantinescharity at 4:00 PM on October 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


I'm not going to pile on the "KonMari your country" thing.

Solar power generation/transmission (with remote places having their own units/small plants) + cheap wifi infrastruture build up (instead of being hamstrung by the big telco companies) would make living in rural areas much easier for lots of people.

Wifi infrastructure (and internet in general) is a problem in certain places because of the terrain. It's a problem in other places because of laws preventing a Chattanooga-style public utility provider, thanks to state-level telco lobbying. That stuff will need to be addressed on a federal level, especially if telco consolidation continues at its current pace.

There's something wicked about how climate change denialism has fed the ideological resistance towards non-carbon-based energy sources: treating solar as a scam, hoarding incandescent bulbs, running the A/C to piss off liberals, rolling coal. I think a Dem administration could throw billions at energy-efficient homes and residential solar -- training up installers, subsidising the installation cost -- and there'd still be people (and state govts) who'd refuse it point-blank.

But: this is not a problem that can be addressed by focusing on places that are in slow contraction. It is fundamentally a (sub)urban planning problem for people who have chosen to move to places that are growing. I think about how much farmland between Atlanta and Athens over the past 15 years has been turned into sprawly subdivisions, and how that translates into massive jams on GA 316. This in turn creates the emotional push-pull among white-flighters who'd benefit from commuter rail or some kind of reliable public transportation, but still worry that it would bring Those People From The City to their doorstep. Those places are far less self-sustaining than any of the Appalachian or Midwest towns that got their own newspaper profile this election season, because they come with the expectations of an ever-higher standard of living.
posted by holgate at 4:00 PM on October 23, 2016 [11 favorites]


That Trump/Dinosaurs comparison if fantastic.

I was shocked and pleased that 'they went there' for the show's finale (dinotropic climate change).
posted by porpoise at 4:00 PM on October 23, 2016 [6 favorites]


I would also like to extend the offer to constantinecharity to come to Kansas City and experience the Midwest for him or herself. Just send me MeMail.
posted by jferg at 4:00 PM on October 23, 2016 [11 favorites]


(I have no idea what to do about the western water welfare states. That is...oh man that is an intractable problem.)

If it's anything like my hometown of Perth it's going to be a mix of conservation, water recycling and desal plants running on renewable energy but on a massive scale. It's really difficult when you need the buyin of all these private and public entities to properly do it at scale.
posted by Talez at 4:03 PM on October 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


I guess I don't know enough about voter rights legislation but I thought this kind of stuff was illegal.

I am not authorized to see that tweet. What does it say?
posted by Room 641-A at 4:03 PM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


I'm sorry, I'm still stuck on the part where all the food and energy production for this cities-and-forests future is coming from.

Don't forget the places where people from cities want to go on vacation. Those always turn out to be worthy of existing and having convenient transportation.

Of course, if all of the food and energy production were moved inside cities, all of the GHG release that happens outside of cities for that production couldn't be subtracted from the per-capita for city denizens doing the consumption, and we wouldn't be able to pretend rural living is so ideologically inferior.
posted by XMLicious at 4:03 PM on October 23, 2016 [12 favorites]


Most of Trump’s charts skew the data. And not always in his favor.
Donald Trump’s campaign is obsessed with favorable poll results, as evidenced by a graphic deluge on official social media channels. It’s a marked difference from their Democratic rival who has led polling averages throughout most of the campaign. And while neither candidate has a perfect record when it comes to spinning the data, only the Trump campaign has used a combination of cherry-picked polls and misleading data visualization to paint a cheerier picture of its prospects on Election Day.
posted by kirkaracha at 4:04 PM on October 23, 2016


Here’s What I Learned About Julian Assange While Working Alongside Him

To an outsider, the WikiLeaks of 2016 looks totally unrelated to the WikiLeaks of 2010. Then it was a darling of many of the liberal left, working with some of the world’s most respected newspapers exposing the truth behind drone killing, civilian deaths in Afghanistan and Iraq, and surveillance of the top UN officials.

Now it is the darling of the alt-right, revealing hacked emails seemingly to influence a presidential contest, claiming the US election is “rigged”, and descending into conspiracy. Just this week on Twitter, it has described the deaths by natural causes of two of its supporters as a “bloody year for WikiLeaks”, and warned of media outlets “controlled by” members of the Rothschild family – a common anti-Semitic trope.

The questions asked about the organisation and its leader are often the wrong ones: how has WikiLeaks changed so much? Is Julian Assange the catspaw of Vladimir Putin? Is WikiLeaks endorsing a president candidate who has been described as racist, misogynistic, xenophobic, and more?

These questions miss a broader truth: neither Assange nor WikiLeaks (and the two are virtually one and the same thing) has changed – the world they operate in has. WikiLeaks is in many ways the same bold, reckless, paranoid creation that once it was, but how that manifests, and who cheers it on has changed.

posted by Artw at 4:07 PM on October 23, 2016 [15 favorites]


Fun fact: Assange makes Wikileaks people sign an NDA.
posted by Talez at 4:11 PM on October 23, 2016 [39 favorites]


Reading coastal MeFi's comments about the West and Midwest is kinda like listening to nuns talking about sex.
posted by Ber at 4:14 PM on October 23, 2016 [45 favorites]