After the 2016 US election
November 10, 2016 2:33 AM Subscribe
The 2016 US election is over and most of the results are in. Barring incident, Barack Obama (#44) will hand over to Donald Trump (#45) at noon on January 20th 2017; transition activities are underway. Following a relentless campaign, Hillary Clinton conceded and called for unity. The Republican Party has also secured the Senate and the House of Representatives, as well as electing more governors. Voter suppression during the election continues to be an issue. Reaction to Trump's victory has ranged from protests to shock, and there are many questions about what he will do in office regarding issues such as Obamacare. Some are drawing parallels between the election result and Brexit. The press is also contemplating the future of the Democratic Party and their road ahead.
To mod-quote: Don't go after each other, don't poke known sore points. There is an election channel in Chat. (If the web interface isn't working for you, frimble has instructions for connecting with Adium, Monal, and Apple Messages. A longer list of Jabber-compatible clients.) Alternately...
Take it to MetaTalk
* Grief and Coping Thread: Election 2016.
* MeFites offering refuge for the holidays.
* US Election Day Roundup.
* It's a big snowball - political sub-site discussion.
* SEZ WHO? Election Prediction 2016.
* Get Yer Voting Stories Here!
For legacy content, see posts tagged with election2016. Recent election posts include Election Night II: Load Balancing Boogaloo, Of the people, by the people, and for the people: US election day, and Senators, Representatives, and Referenda.
There are also many recent election-related threads in Ask MetaFilter.
Other resources
* Ballotpedia has a mass of election resources.
* The election thread reference wiki explains some of the terminology used in comments on these threads.
* Some links of distraction and comfort by Deoridhe, I need a good laugh, badly by azpenguin and Desperate for distractions - tumblr, twitter, and metafilter are out by tzikeh.
To mod-quote: Don't go after each other, don't poke known sore points. There is an election channel in Chat. (If the web interface isn't working for you, frimble has instructions for connecting with Adium, Monal, and Apple Messages. A longer list of Jabber-compatible clients.) Alternately...
Take it to MetaTalk
* Grief and Coping Thread: Election 2016.
* MeFites offering refuge for the holidays.
* US Election Day Roundup.
* It's a big snowball - political sub-site discussion.
* SEZ WHO? Election Prediction 2016.
* Get Yer Voting Stories Here!
For legacy content, see posts tagged with election2016. Recent election posts include Election Night II: Load Balancing Boogaloo, Of the people, by the people, and for the people: US election day, and Senators, Representatives, and Referenda.
There are also many recent election-related threads in Ask MetaFilter.
Other resources
* Ballotpedia has a mass of election resources.
* The election thread reference wiki explains some of the terminology used in comments on these threads.
* Some links of distraction and comfort by Deoridhe, I need a good laugh, badly by azpenguin and Desperate for distractions - tumblr, twitter, and metafilter are out by tzikeh.
Speaking from the Netherlands:
WTF AMERICA !!!!!!
posted by Pendragon at 2:44 AM on November 10, 2016 [24 favorites]
WTF AMERICA !!!!!!
posted by Pendragon at 2:44 AM on November 10, 2016 [24 favorites]
the elitists lost - so did the common people; they just don't know it yet
of course, the way the system is gerrymandered with the electoral college, it's hard to say who really "won"
but i just don't have a lot to say about it - i'm disgusted with the whole mess right now
posted by pyramid termite at 2:44 AM on November 10, 2016 [10 favorites]
of course, the way the system is gerrymandered with the electoral college, it's hard to say who really "won"
but i just don't have a lot to say about it - i'm disgusted with the whole mess right now
posted by pyramid termite at 2:44 AM on November 10, 2016 [10 favorites]
I remember Reagan. There were times when every day brought a fresh new horror show of ignorance, incompetence and lies. The next year will be like that.
Brace yourselves.
posted by mediareport at 2:46 AM on November 10, 2016 [96 favorites]
Brace yourselves.
posted by mediareport at 2:46 AM on November 10, 2016 [96 favorites]
I never could have imagined that twice in 16 years I'd see a Democratic presidential candidate win the popular vote and lose the election. Gore then and Clinton now have appealed to the tradition in our democracy of the good loser who hands over the reins of power in good faith. But Trump represents the culmination of everything the Republican Party has become since 1994. There's not one glimmer of respect for political norms in Donald Trump's eyes, and he now leads a party which had already pledged itself to a policy of total obstruction when it thought it was going to lose the presidency. Donald Trump will take every hand offered in conciliation and spit in it.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 2:47 AM on November 10, 2016 [138 favorites]
posted by Horace Rumpole at 2:47 AM on November 10, 2016 [138 favorites]
Thank you, Wordshore, for your continuing work on these threads. As well as the mods, of course.
posted by threetwentytwo at 2:48 AM on November 10, 2016 [81 favorites]
posted by threetwentytwo at 2:48 AM on November 10, 2016 [81 favorites]
After the amazing emotional rollercoaster of the campaign and vote, it feels like things are over now, but at the same time, there are so many immense threads yet to fully unravel that I think that we're really in an interlude before we transition back into a period of a fresh outrage every few weeks. I also don't have a whole lot to say about it at this point. We've reached a new nadir.
posted by feloniousmonk at 2:49 AM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by feloniousmonk at 2:49 AM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
I'm deep in the application process for disability and Medicaid. Here's hoping I can get the process finished before January. My very life is on the line.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 2:49 AM on November 10, 2016 [64 favorites]
posted by The Underpants Monster at 2:49 AM on November 10, 2016 [64 favorites]
The markets seems to be welcoming Trump - the Dow Jones came within about 25 points of its all-time intraday high of 18,668.44
posted by xdvesper at 2:51 AM on November 10, 2016
posted by xdvesper at 2:51 AM on November 10, 2016
Hopefully the Clintons will go away forever now (SPOILER ALERT: They won't)
posted by Optamystic at 2:52 AM on November 10, 2016 [20 favorites]
posted by Optamystic at 2:52 AM on November 10, 2016 [20 favorites]
the elitists lost - so did the common people; they just don't know it yet
I agree with the latter point, of course, but I'll give NPR some credit for pointing out that although "anti-establishment" was supposed to be the election's theme, Republicans sure did re-elect a lot of incumbent Senators.
posted by Gelatin at 2:52 AM on November 10, 2016 [33 favorites]
I agree with the latter point, of course, but I'll give NPR some credit for pointing out that although "anti-establishment" was supposed to be the election's theme, Republicans sure did re-elect a lot of incumbent Senators.
posted by Gelatin at 2:52 AM on November 10, 2016 [33 favorites]
The thought that terrifies me is this -- a year of bumbling, unpopular Trump, followed by a terrorist attack anywhere near the scale of 9-11.
We saw what happened last time. He'll be unstoppable.
posted by ELF Radio at 2:52 AM on November 10, 2016 [68 favorites]
We saw what happened last time. He'll be unstoppable.
posted by ELF Radio at 2:52 AM on November 10, 2016 [68 favorites]
Back in the UK: "D'Oh!" and "What Have They Done?"
posted by Mister Bijou at 2:52 AM on November 10, 2016
posted by Mister Bijou at 2:52 AM on November 10, 2016
of course, the way the system is gerrymandered with the electoral college, it's hard to say who really "won"
It's quite a thing to watch this aspect of the story being buried in real time. I'm afraid of a Trump presidency and what it means for the country, but ultimately most of America rejected Trumpism. This probably won't wind up mattering, because the Republicans are ruthless and limiting your agenda to work with a divided country is apparently something we don't expect of them, but shame on the media for not pushing back on that.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 2:53 AM on November 10, 2016 [50 favorites]
It's quite a thing to watch this aspect of the story being buried in real time. I'm afraid of a Trump presidency and what it means for the country, but ultimately most of America rejected Trumpism. This probably won't wind up mattering, because the Republicans are ruthless and limiting your agenda to work with a divided country is apparently something we don't expect of them, but shame on the media for not pushing back on that.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 2:53 AM on November 10, 2016 [50 favorites]
I hope Obama fires James Comey this week for his partisan interference in the election. At this point, what does he have to lose?
posted by Gelatin at 2:54 AM on November 10, 2016 [93 favorites]
posted by Gelatin at 2:54 AM on November 10, 2016 [93 favorites]
Via Deadspin, Stan Van Gundy, coach on the Detroit Pistons We've just thrown a good part of our population under the bus.
I'm having a hard time with people. I'm going to walk out into this arena tonight (the team played in Phoenix) and realize that - especially in this state - most of these people voted for that guy.
posted by Ghidorah at 2:54 AM on November 10, 2016 [54 favorites]
I'm having a hard time with people. I'm going to walk out into this arena tonight (the team played in Phoenix) and realize that - especially in this state - most of these people voted for that guy.
posted by Ghidorah at 2:54 AM on November 10, 2016 [54 favorites]
Actually opposing bad policies and legislation by Trump or fascists emboldened by him will fall on organizations like the ACLU and EFF, so support them. And aclu.org already has "See You in Court" next to a photo of Trump. :)
Just some informative links :
NPR : Here is what Donald Trump wants to do in his first 100 days
Intercept : Democrats, Trump, and the Ongoing, Dangerous Refusal to Learn the Lesson of Brexit
We learned that Clinton's campaign told their media friends to give Trump more media attention during the Republican primary, called their Pied Piper strategy, thereby improving his chances to be the Republican nominee.
We've heard rumors that Obama will squander some of his remaining time in office pushing the awful TPP treaty.
Also, there were incorrect early reports of final vote tallies, but ultimately Clinton underperformed Obama by 2.5 million votes (4%), while Trump only outperformed Romney by 300k votes (0.5%).
And 9% of registered Democrats voted for Trump. And
posted by jeffburdges at 2:57 AM on November 10, 2016 [36 favorites]
Just some informative links :
NPR : Here is what Donald Trump wants to do in his first 100 days
Intercept : Democrats, Trump, and the Ongoing, Dangerous Refusal to Learn the Lesson of Brexit
We learned that Clinton's campaign told their media friends to give Trump more media attention during the Republican primary, called their Pied Piper strategy, thereby improving his chances to be the Republican nominee.
We've heard rumors that Obama will squander some of his remaining time in office pushing the awful TPP treaty.
Also, there were incorrect early reports of final vote tallies, but ultimately Clinton underperformed Obama by 2.5 million votes (4%), while Trump only outperformed Romney by 300k votes (0.5%).
And 9% of registered Democrats voted for Trump. And
posted by jeffburdges at 2:57 AM on November 10, 2016 [36 favorites]
I have a few 'Likudnik' FB acquaintances who are pretty happy with Trump winning.
Not sure how happy they will be when Putin really goes ahead and pounds Syrian cities into the ground and dumps even more brand new Russian weapons into Hezbollah's hands and whoops whaddya know Lebanon is up in flames again and 19 year old Israeli soldiers are dying in the Golan.
posted by PenDevil at 3:00 AM on November 10, 2016 [10 favorites]
Not sure how happy they will be when Putin really goes ahead and pounds Syrian cities into the ground and dumps even more brand new Russian weapons into Hezbollah's hands and whoops whaddya know Lebanon is up in flames again and 19 year old Israeli soldiers are dying in the Golan.
posted by PenDevil at 3:00 AM on November 10, 2016 [10 favorites]
I basically lost the whole of yesterday to the "refresh" button, in a way I really haven't since 12 September 2001. The potential cabinet picks look utterly horrendous. I would say I'm "terrified," but a kind of paralysed affectlessness is a luxury those of us on the left simply don't have any more. We need to organise, bury our sectarian differences, and fight this global reactionary movement together.
posted by Sonny Jim at 3:01 AM on November 10, 2016 [51 favorites]
posted by Sonny Jim at 3:01 AM on November 10, 2016 [51 favorites]
America survived eight years of W. It, and the world, were far worse off for him, but it survived. It'll also survive four years of Trump, though it will be further diminished. I can only hope that the triple forces of demographics, mild apocalypse, and stupid policy having bad results allow something better to be built after 2021.
Most of my friends here are way more concerned about the damage America will do during its continued slow-motion collapse than anything that Trump does to America itself. More concerning is that with America in the hands of an elected (legitimately, if not with plurality) demagogue, there seems to be no counterbalance to the protofascist wave sweeping over the Western world and its borderlands. A center-right America under split government could be an effective counterbalance to Putin and Erdogan on the world stage. A wildcard narcissist president who may or may not play ball with a right-wing legislature, but who is in a public bromance with at least one of them, will not.
There is something badly broken with the post-cold-war world order. It is in the process of remaking itself into something more nationalist, more anti-intellectual, more belligerent, and less bound by the rule of law. That, more than Trumpist incompetence, Trumpist racism (let's face it, we all know racism remains America's original sin), sheer Trumpist small-handed orangeness, is the scary part of his ascendence.
posted by Vetinari at 3:04 AM on November 10, 2016 [88 favorites]
Most of my friends here are way more concerned about the damage America will do during its continued slow-motion collapse than anything that Trump does to America itself. More concerning is that with America in the hands of an elected (legitimately, if not with plurality) demagogue, there seems to be no counterbalance to the protofascist wave sweeping over the Western world and its borderlands. A center-right America under split government could be an effective counterbalance to Putin and Erdogan on the world stage. A wildcard narcissist president who may or may not play ball with a right-wing legislature, but who is in a public bromance with at least one of them, will not.
There is something badly broken with the post-cold-war world order. It is in the process of remaking itself into something more nationalist, more anti-intellectual, more belligerent, and less bound by the rule of law. That, more than Trumpist incompetence, Trumpist racism (let's face it, we all know racism remains America's original sin), sheer Trumpist small-handed orangeness, is the scary part of his ascendence.
posted by Vetinari at 3:04 AM on November 10, 2016 [88 favorites]
i think the republicans are going to make the unpleasant discovery that they're not unified enough to accomplish much, nor do they have a clear idea of what to do besides destroy what has been built by others because "they did it" - the more moderate republicans will reach out to the democrats, who, i hope, will tell them "you have a majority - govern without us"
it's time for the democrats to do as the republicans have done
it's my belief that we're going to have a long shutdown of the government at some point, perhaps even this year - we could even see default
in the rest of the world things are going to go to hell in a major way - ww iii will be upon us and it won't be the all out nuclear exchange we thought it would be - instead it will be an asian war
and trump? - i have no idea what he's going to do
the worst part is, neither does he
posted by pyramid termite at 3:04 AM on November 10, 2016 [19 favorites]
it's time for the democrats to do as the republicans have done
it's my belief that we're going to have a long shutdown of the government at some point, perhaps even this year - we could even see default
in the rest of the world things are going to go to hell in a major way - ww iii will be upon us and it won't be the all out nuclear exchange we thought it would be - instead it will be an asian war
and trump? - i have no idea what he's going to do
the worst part is, neither does he
posted by pyramid termite at 3:04 AM on November 10, 2016 [19 favorites]
Eight short years after an economic collapse and free fall nearly ending in a full blown economic depression and uh, uh, uhmmm, let me have another heaping plate full of that, only magnified by the venality of the Trump machine. Nice going! Here's a nice summation of what to expect. This is an unmitigated catastrophe, read unmitigated as not subject to amelioration. The United States as we knew it is gone. What will emerge is a nightmare I think no one would have believed possible.
posted by WinstonJulia at 3:05 AM on November 10, 2016 [18 favorites]
posted by WinstonJulia at 3:05 AM on November 10, 2016 [18 favorites]
by the way, i just read that first 100 days of trump link and his statement
i stand by my statement - he does not have any idea what he's going to DO, but he sure as hell won't do this - congress won't let him
posted by pyramid termite at 3:08 AM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
i stand by my statement - he does not have any idea what he's going to DO, but he sure as hell won't do this - congress won't let him
posted by pyramid termite at 3:08 AM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
After the 2016 US election ...
Foreign minister Julie Bishop stood up in the Australian parliament with her Cranky Face on and scolded the opposition leader for calling the US president-elect "barking mad" a few weeks ago.
posted by valetta at 3:10 AM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
Foreign minister Julie Bishop stood up in the Australian parliament with her Cranky Face on and scolded the opposition leader for calling the US president-elect "barking mad" a few weeks ago.
posted by valetta at 3:10 AM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
We've Got a Bigger Problem Now, redux
Last call for alcohol
Last call for your freedom of speech
Drink up. Happy hour is now enforced by law
Don't forget our house special, it's called a Trickie Dickie Screwdriver
It's got one part Jack Daniels, two parts purple Kool-Aid
And a jigger of formaldehyde
From the jar with Hitler's brain in it we got in the back storeroom
Happy trails to you. Happy trails to you
I am Emperor Donald Trump
Born again with fascist cravings
Still, you made me president
Human rights will soon go 'way
I am now your Shah today
Now I command all of you
Now you're going to pray in school
I'll make sure they're not Muslim too
Coal country über alles
Coal country über alles
Über alles coal country
Über alles coal country
Shab shabba, shabba doo-wa
Shab shabba, shabba doo-wa, yeah!
Ku Klux Klan will control you
Still you think it's natural
Pussy grabbin' for the master race
Still you wear the happy face
You closed your eyes, can't happen here
Andrew Breitbart is near
Vietnam won't come back you say
Join the army or you will pay
Coal country über alles
Coal country über alles
Über alles coal country
Über alles coal country
Yeah, that's it. Just relax
Have another drink, few more pretzels, little more MSG
Turn on those Dallas Cowboys on your TV
Lock your doors. Close your mind
It's time for the two-minute warning
Welcome to 1984
Are you ready for the third world war?
You too will meet the secret police
They'll draft you and they'll jail your niece
You'll go quitely to boot camp
They'll shoot you dead, make you a man
Don't you worry, it's for a cause
Feeding global corporations' claws
Die on our brand new poison gas
Aleppo or Afghanistan
Making money for President Trump
Making money for President Trump
And all the friends of President Trump
Coal country über alles
Coal country über alles
Über alles coal country
Über alles coal country
posted by kewb at 3:11 AM on November 10, 2016 [27 favorites]
Last call for alcohol
Last call for your freedom of speech
Drink up. Happy hour is now enforced by law
Don't forget our house special, it's called a Trickie Dickie Screwdriver
It's got one part Jack Daniels, two parts purple Kool-Aid
And a jigger of formaldehyde
From the jar with Hitler's brain in it we got in the back storeroom
Happy trails to you. Happy trails to you
I am Emperor Donald Trump
Born again with fascist cravings
Still, you made me president
Human rights will soon go 'way
I am now your Shah today
Now I command all of you
Now you're going to pray in school
I'll make sure they're not Muslim too
Coal country über alles
Coal country über alles
Über alles coal country
Über alles coal country
Shab shabba, shabba doo-wa
Shab shabba, shabba doo-wa, yeah!
Ku Klux Klan will control you
Still you think it's natural
Pussy grabbin' for the master race
Still you wear the happy face
You closed your eyes, can't happen here
Andrew Breitbart is near
Vietnam won't come back you say
Join the army or you will pay
Coal country über alles
Coal country über alles
Über alles coal country
Über alles coal country
Yeah, that's it. Just relax
Have another drink, few more pretzels, little more MSG
Turn on those Dallas Cowboys on your TV
Lock your doors. Close your mind
It's time for the two-minute warning
Welcome to 1984
Are you ready for the third world war?
You too will meet the secret police
They'll draft you and they'll jail your niece
You'll go quitely to boot camp
They'll shoot you dead, make you a man
Don't you worry, it's for a cause
Feeding global corporations' claws
Die on our brand new poison gas
Aleppo or Afghanistan
Making money for President Trump
Making money for President Trump
And all the friends of President Trump
Coal country über alles
Coal country über alles
Über alles coal country
Über alles coal country
posted by kewb at 3:11 AM on November 10, 2016 [27 favorites]
The future is dead. Or at least the future that was meant to be a steady march of progress, a procession of minor wonders. The high-water mark was reached some time between 1960 and 2001; it has steadily slid since 9/11 and the Long Siege. It looked like turning around in the Obama years, but the rise of the Age of Strongmen, Brexit and now Trump, has turned the steady decline into a crumbling. The actual future will be authoritarianism, fascism and war, followed by ecological catastrophe.
One side effect of this is that does wonders for eliminating the fear of death. I used to think that it would suck to die, knowing that one wouldn't get to see what happens next. Now, not so much.
posted by acb at 3:11 AM on November 10, 2016 [34 favorites]
One side effect of this is that does wonders for eliminating the fear of death. I used to think that it would suck to die, knowing that one wouldn't get to see what happens next. Now, not so much.
posted by acb at 3:11 AM on November 10, 2016 [34 favorites]
Detroit Pistons coach Stan Van Gundy's
full rant is worth reading:
What we have done to minorities … in this election is despicable. I’m having a hard time dealing with it. This isn’t your normal candidate. I don’t know even know if I have political differences with him. I don’t even know what are his politics. I don’t know, other than to build a wall and 'I hate people of color, and women are to be treated as sex objects and as servants to men.' I don’t know how you get past that. I don’t know how you walk into the booth and vote for that...
Thanks, Ghidora. It's great to see outspoken bravery in the mainstream right now.
posted by mediareport at 3:11 AM on November 10, 2016 [158 favorites]
full rant is worth reading:
What we have done to minorities … in this election is despicable. I’m having a hard time dealing with it. This isn’t your normal candidate. I don’t know even know if I have political differences with him. I don’t even know what are his politics. I don’t know, other than to build a wall and 'I hate people of color, and women are to be treated as sex objects and as servants to men.' I don’t know how you get past that. I don’t know how you walk into the booth and vote for that...
Thanks, Ghidora. It's great to see outspoken bravery in the mainstream right now.
posted by mediareport at 3:11 AM on November 10, 2016 [158 favorites]
Apart from all the explicitly terrible ideas, the things that will tear families apart and cost people life saving health care, Trump's proposed "eliminate two regulations for every new one" idea is the one that scares me simply because it betrays no understanding of how federal regulations work. I have no idea how it would work in practice, and I can't imagine anyone who works with the CFR regularly would. It's ignorant and totally ungrounded in reality.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 3:12 AM on November 10, 2016 [28 favorites]
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 3:12 AM on November 10, 2016 [28 favorites]
In other news: Sherriff Joe Arpaio is in the running for Secretary of Homeland Security.
posted by acb at 3:12 AM on November 10, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by acb at 3:12 AM on November 10, 2016 [9 favorites]
Democrats, Trump, and the Ongoing, Dangerous Refusal to Learn the Lesson of Brexit
Eh... I think that Brexit narrative of insular establishment elites ignoring the problems of the people is certainly a lesson of Brexit, but it's a) not the only one and b) not an entire lesson in itself. Brexit wasn't a grassroots uprising - its presentation as a popular revolt against the elite was a marketing campaign, driven largely by figures just as elite and establishment as the ones they were excoriating. That they recognised and tapped into real discontent isn't the only story here.
Another possibly-relevant Lesson Of Brexit is the success of low-information campaigning on detailed, complex matters. Leaving the EU is a massive, labyrinthine task with factors affecting so many different parts of life in the UK - our legal system, our trade system, our education system, on and on and on - that was marketed as something as straightforward as cancelling Netflix. Appealing-sounding promises (the infamous £350m/week extra for the NHS) weren't part of any manifesto, weren't put into any policy framework, weren't costed out, and so didn't have to be feasible and could be immediately backed away from when the Leave campaign won - which is what happened. Vote Leave's official 'plan' for leaving the EU was a few paragraphs long. And that, again, was part of a deliberate marketing strategy.
I have been thinking about this a lot, and especially in the wake of the Trump victory, because it's just counterintuitive to me that a total lack of information could go down so well with people. I get why it's appealing to the people trying to sell us their campaigns, but why the hell are we as voters lapping this up?
Here is where I am up to with that so far: It's not that people don't want knowledge. (I mean, some people don't, but not all of us in general.) It's that people already feel like they don't have it, when it comes to big, complex systems affecting us, big societal/global issues and how our governments handle them. Decline of the manufacturing industries, how to defeat ISIS, how to handle a global refugee crisis, how to tackle climate change, what caused the 2008 crash, what to do about healthcare systems, what to do about taxation. All of it. People feel shut out, cut off, out of control, disenfranchised. And if you are in power or trying to get into power (be that power political, media, whatever) there are three ways you can go with that:
1 - "You don't know how the world around you works, and that's fine." Lack of knowledge is the system working as it should. Decisions should be made by people more qualified to make them than you - because they're more educated, more experienced, more wealthy, more part-of-the-inner-circle, whatever. You get to vote for your government once every few years, and in the meantime, go and sit over there and we'll get on with running the country. If you want you can check in regularly while we give you a very basic summary of what's happening and tell you what to think about it. So, you feel like immigration into the UK is destroying the NHS? You're wrong, but whatever. This is above your pay grade.
2.- "You don't know how the world around you works, and that's not fine." Nobody has the time or inclination to become an expert in everything, okay, but democracy only works if the population is informed and has a voice that gets heard, and that's how it should be. We will make sure you get more of that - by giving you a more accurate picture of what's going on, by letting you know how you can be part of these conversations, by making policy with you rather than to you. So, you feel like immigration into the UK is destroying the NHS? You're wrong, and here is the detail about why - about the pressures affecting the NHS, and about the societal and economic effects of immigration. The politicians and media telling you otherwise are lying to you.
3. - "You do know how the world around you works." Those people telling you that you don't are trying to pull the wool over your eyes. Everyone knows what's really going on, but you aren't allowed to say it because it's non-PC. So, you feel like immigration into the UK is destroying the NHS? You're right. The experts telling you otherwise are just part of the elite, out to preserve the status quo.
Approach 1) has no future. Nobody is openly going to advocate that any more. The future of politics is going to be battling it out between approaches 2) and 3). And I think the best weapon in that battle is going to be pointing out that approach 3), however grassroots and authentic and outspoken and common-sense it's claiming to be, is actually approach 1) in disguise.
posted by Catseye at 3:13 AM on November 10, 2016 [134 favorites]
Eh... I think that Brexit narrative of insular establishment elites ignoring the problems of the people is certainly a lesson of Brexit, but it's a) not the only one and b) not an entire lesson in itself. Brexit wasn't a grassroots uprising - its presentation as a popular revolt against the elite was a marketing campaign, driven largely by figures just as elite and establishment as the ones they were excoriating. That they recognised and tapped into real discontent isn't the only story here.
Another possibly-relevant Lesson Of Brexit is the success of low-information campaigning on detailed, complex matters. Leaving the EU is a massive, labyrinthine task with factors affecting so many different parts of life in the UK - our legal system, our trade system, our education system, on and on and on - that was marketed as something as straightforward as cancelling Netflix. Appealing-sounding promises (the infamous £350m/week extra for the NHS) weren't part of any manifesto, weren't put into any policy framework, weren't costed out, and so didn't have to be feasible and could be immediately backed away from when the Leave campaign won - which is what happened. Vote Leave's official 'plan' for leaving the EU was a few paragraphs long. And that, again, was part of a deliberate marketing strategy.
I have been thinking about this a lot, and especially in the wake of the Trump victory, because it's just counterintuitive to me that a total lack of information could go down so well with people. I get why it's appealing to the people trying to sell us their campaigns, but why the hell are we as voters lapping this up?
Here is where I am up to with that so far: It's not that people don't want knowledge. (I mean, some people don't, but not all of us in general.) It's that people already feel like they don't have it, when it comes to big, complex systems affecting us, big societal/global issues and how our governments handle them. Decline of the manufacturing industries, how to defeat ISIS, how to handle a global refugee crisis, how to tackle climate change, what caused the 2008 crash, what to do about healthcare systems, what to do about taxation. All of it. People feel shut out, cut off, out of control, disenfranchised. And if you are in power or trying to get into power (be that power political, media, whatever) there are three ways you can go with that:
1 - "You don't know how the world around you works, and that's fine." Lack of knowledge is the system working as it should. Decisions should be made by people more qualified to make them than you - because they're more educated, more experienced, more wealthy, more part-of-the-inner-circle, whatever. You get to vote for your government once every few years, and in the meantime, go and sit over there and we'll get on with running the country. If you want you can check in regularly while we give you a very basic summary of what's happening and tell you what to think about it. So, you feel like immigration into the UK is destroying the NHS? You're wrong, but whatever. This is above your pay grade.
2.- "You don't know how the world around you works, and that's not fine." Nobody has the time or inclination to become an expert in everything, okay, but democracy only works if the population is informed and has a voice that gets heard, and that's how it should be. We will make sure you get more of that - by giving you a more accurate picture of what's going on, by letting you know how you can be part of these conversations, by making policy with you rather than to you. So, you feel like immigration into the UK is destroying the NHS? You're wrong, and here is the detail about why - about the pressures affecting the NHS, and about the societal and economic effects of immigration. The politicians and media telling you otherwise are lying to you.
3. - "You do know how the world around you works." Those people telling you that you don't are trying to pull the wool over your eyes. Everyone knows what's really going on, but you aren't allowed to say it because it's non-PC. So, you feel like immigration into the UK is destroying the NHS? You're right. The experts telling you otherwise are just part of the elite, out to preserve the status quo.
Approach 1) has no future. Nobody is openly going to advocate that any more. The future of politics is going to be battling it out between approaches 2) and 3). And I think the best weapon in that battle is going to be pointing out that approach 3), however grassroots and authentic and outspoken and common-sense it's claiming to be, is actually approach 1) in disguise.
posted by Catseye at 3:13 AM on November 10, 2016 [134 favorites]
@ShaunKing: Woke up to hundreds and hundreds of gut-wrenching emails of ways people suffered hate and were assaulted by Trump supporters yesterday.
White folks and other people with privilege and safety: please, please do everything you can to call this out if and when you see it. De-escalate it, help the person being attacked to get somewhere safe. Contact a local Anti-Violence Project if your city or town has one.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:15 AM on November 10, 2016 [43 favorites]
White folks and other people with privilege and safety: please, please do everything you can to call this out if and when you see it. De-escalate it, help the person being attacked to get somewhere safe. Contact a local Anti-Violence Project if your city or town has one.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:15 AM on November 10, 2016 [43 favorites]
I just want to say that it breaks my heart that the front page of Ask has been covered in questions from scared people not knowing what to do anymore. Should I buy a house now? Should I get married? What's going to happen to my healthcare? What are they going to do to end marriage equality?
People shouldn't have to be THIS scared, but this is what we've come to.
posted by Aznable at 3:15 AM on November 10, 2016 [67 favorites]
People shouldn't have to be THIS scared, but this is what we've come to.
posted by Aznable at 3:15 AM on November 10, 2016 [67 favorites]
of course the real answer is -
4.- "you don't know how the world works and neither do the people who are running it"
posted by pyramid termite at 3:17 AM on November 10, 2016 [30 favorites]
4.- "you don't know how the world works and neither do the people who are running it"
posted by pyramid termite at 3:17 AM on November 10, 2016 [30 favorites]
Hopefully the Clintons will go away forever now
Hopefully the winner of the popular vote will keep her spirits high, stay connected, and support the opposition's struggle the next four years. This is "all hands on deck" time.
I don't want her to run for president again. We can't take that chance. But I do want the Clintons, Obamas, Bidens, and Kaines to do whatever they can to empower the resistance. We can't afford to lose anyone in our coalition.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 3:17 AM on November 10, 2016 [207 favorites]
Hopefully the winner of the popular vote will keep her spirits high, stay connected, and support the opposition's struggle the next four years. This is "all hands on deck" time.
I don't want her to run for president again. We can't take that chance. But I do want the Clintons, Obamas, Bidens, and Kaines to do whatever they can to empower the resistance. We can't afford to lose anyone in our coalition.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 3:17 AM on November 10, 2016 [207 favorites]
Fear and the resulting paralysis and dependency it generates are powerful means of social control. We can't fall into the trap of letting our anxiety control our lives, as that's essentially a form of political surrender.
posted by Sonny Jim at 3:18 AM on November 10, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by Sonny Jim at 3:18 AM on November 10, 2016 [10 favorites]
A house three blocks away from where I used to live in Noe Valley/Dolores Heights is now waving a Nazi flag in their front yard.
And now I'm going to watch the clips of The West Wing from the AskMe thread.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:22 AM on November 10, 2016 [7 favorites]
And now I'm going to watch the clips of The West Wing from the AskMe thread.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:22 AM on November 10, 2016 [7 favorites]
Catseye: If you haven't watched any Adam Curtis documentaries, you might appreciate them.
posted by Leon at 3:23 AM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Leon at 3:23 AM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
I keep seeing analyses that make it about rural America versus the liberal cities, yes. Thing is, this does not track with what we're seeing on the ground (where "we" are friends and I, would be interested to hear others). What we're seeing is evangelicals voting for the apocalypse, which has long been something fundy evangelical churches tell their congregations to do (lived experience here). Rural America voting Republican, yes, that's totally understandable even if incredibly unfortunate, they have indeed been abandoned... although it was mainly by Republicans. They don't know it and that's not entirely their fault, that would be squarely on the media and also on a lot of churches' unwillingness to question their Republican support. I grew up in rural America, you have to make a strong effort and be willing to lose your entire support network in order to see through the discourse. I wholly understand people who do not want to take those risks. Again: understanding it does not mean supporting it. But it does help identify ways to improve it. Media letting drop this elites vs. rural thing would be a good start. As if there aren't elites in boondocks! Anyone who's grown up in the countryside knows there are rich farmers and ranchers who behave like dicks, rich ones who behave responsibly, and so on and so forth. The rural versus city discourse has to stop, it creates its own dichotomy and is itself a form of ignorance.
What we're also seeing is privileged white people voting for the privileged white dude. So many well-off white families voted Trump. Including in cities. Racism; white supremacy absolutely was a motivator for many. Also thinly-veiled misogyny as motivation. And a lot of it not veiled at all.
I do hope we all remember to look out for one another. Don't be blinded by preconceived ideas. We're all human. Anyone who says otherwise, speak out for our shared humanity.
posted by fraula at 3:29 AM on November 10, 2016 [62 favorites]
What we're also seeing is privileged white people voting for the privileged white dude. So many well-off white families voted Trump. Including in cities. Racism; white supremacy absolutely was a motivator for many. Also thinly-veiled misogyny as motivation. And a lot of it not veiled at all.
I do hope we all remember to look out for one another. Don't be blinded by preconceived ideas. We're all human. Anyone who says otherwise, speak out for our shared humanity.
posted by fraula at 3:29 AM on November 10, 2016 [62 favorites]
I tell my foreign friends that more Americans voted for Hillary. Trump only won because of a system leftover from the days of slavery.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 3:30 AM on November 10, 2016 [18 favorites]
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 3:30 AM on November 10, 2016 [18 favorites]
As if the time we sent you Piers Morgan wasnt bad enough, apparently Nigel Farage is angling for a job in America as Ambassador. Soz about that.
posted by threetwentytwo at 3:31 AM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by threetwentytwo at 3:31 AM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
I wish I could agree with Vetinari above that "America survived eight years of W. It, and the world, were far worse off for him, but it survived. It'll also survive four years of Trump, though it will be further diminished." Sadly, Trump will appoint two if not three Supreme Court Justice and no, the country will not survive forty years of that.
With control of the Presidency, the House, the Senate and the Supreme Court Republicans will finally fulfill their long dreamed of wish list of the last eighty -->EIGHTY --> years and undo the New Deal and all the "socialism" that goes with it. The hated Roosevelt innovations that dragged the United States into the modern era and saved the Untied States, ironically, capitalism itself, and the world by winning World War II will be swept away. I dare say, with control of all those branches of government, "the checks and balances" of power has been rendered moot. These zealots are all on the same page. This is an unprecedented moment in our history. The radical transformation of the United States will be staggering.
posted by WinstonJulia at 3:31 AM on November 10, 2016 [84 favorites]
With control of the Presidency, the House, the Senate and the Supreme Court Republicans will finally fulfill their long dreamed of wish list of the last eighty -->EIGHTY --> years and undo the New Deal and all the "socialism" that goes with it. The hated Roosevelt innovations that dragged the United States into the modern era and saved the Untied States, ironically, capitalism itself, and the world by winning World War II will be swept away. I dare say, with control of all those branches of government, "the checks and balances" of power has been rendered moot. These zealots are all on the same page. This is an unprecedented moment in our history. The radical transformation of the United States will be staggering.
posted by WinstonJulia at 3:31 AM on November 10, 2016 [84 favorites]
What part of #nevertrump did people not understand?
posted by cynicalidealist at 3:37 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by cynicalidealist at 3:37 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
I tell my foreign friends that more Americans voted for Hillary. Trump only won because of a system leftover from the days of slavery.
Even if he hadn't won it would still be terrifyingly large portion of America that voted Trump.
posted by Dysk at 3:47 AM on November 10, 2016 [21 favorites]
Even if he hadn't won it would still be terrifyingly large portion of America that voted Trump.
posted by Dysk at 3:47 AM on November 10, 2016 [21 favorites]
I don't like this season of Orange is the New Black.
posted by adept256 at 3:48 AM on November 10, 2016 [26 favorites]
posted by adept256 at 3:48 AM on November 10, 2016 [26 favorites]
My partner and I were talking about this at dinner (it's hard to talk about anything else, though we're trying). Given that the standard Republican narrative is to displace and transfer blame and consequences for anything that goes wrong, I had the thought that the Democrats need to hammer home the idea, repeatedly, constantly, that the Republicans are in charge and anything that happens is on them.
Both obstruction and working across the aisle are losing propositions for the Democrats. The only way forward I can see for them is abstinence and messaging.
Every time there's a vote, every democrat shows up, and abstains. Every time there's debate about a vote, they each get up and say "this is horrible, but the consequences are on you. Go ahead if you think this is good for America."
Alternately, they could get up during debates and just read the litany of all the horrible things Trump has done or said.
Obviously this isn't a perfect idea; if they actually have the votes to prevent horrible laws from being passed, they should do so, but if not, active non-participation and consistent messaging will get the point home with the average American (and the press) better than being Republican-obstructionist.
IMO :)
posted by Kelrichen at 3:51 AM on November 10, 2016 [30 favorites]
Both obstruction and working across the aisle are losing propositions for the Democrats. The only way forward I can see for them is abstinence and messaging.
Every time there's a vote, every democrat shows up, and abstains. Every time there's debate about a vote, they each get up and say "this is horrible, but the consequences are on you. Go ahead if you think this is good for America."
Alternately, they could get up during debates and just read the litany of all the horrible things Trump has done or said.
Obviously this isn't a perfect idea; if they actually have the votes to prevent horrible laws from being passed, they should do so, but if not, active non-participation and consistent messaging will get the point home with the average American (and the press) better than being Republican-obstructionist.
IMO :)
posted by Kelrichen at 3:51 AM on November 10, 2016 [30 favorites]
So a bunch of rubes who believe in the literal Biblical Apocalypse just got conned into voting for a guy who will probably cause it? The Aristocrats!
posted by Optamystic at 3:52 AM on November 10, 2016 [24 favorites]
posted by Optamystic at 3:52 AM on November 10, 2016 [24 favorites]
“The truth is, there are not two kinds of people. There’s only one: the kind that loves to divide up into gangs who hate each other’s guts. Both conservatives and liberals agree among themselves, on their respective message boards, in uncannily identical language, that their opponents lack any self-awareness or empathy, the ability to see the other side of an argument or to laugh at themselves. Which would seem to suggest that they’re both correct.”
― Tim Kreider, We Learn Nothing
posted by cynicalidealist at 3:56 AM on November 10, 2016 [21 favorites]
― Tim Kreider, We Learn Nothing
posted by cynicalidealist at 3:56 AM on November 10, 2016 [21 favorites]
www.nationalpopularvote.com - the campaign to abolish the Electoral College.
It won't be quick, and it won't be easy since it requires an amendment signed by the states (and quite a few states benefit from the current broken system). But now that a split has happened twice in recent memory we need to consider whether it will keep happening and continue privileging some votes over others, and to me that is unacceptable. One person, one vote. We've got to start somewhere and maybe now is the time.
(If anyone has other organizations that are fighting for the same thing, feel free to suggest them)
posted by Tehhund at 3:57 AM on November 10, 2016 [34 favorites]
It won't be quick, and it won't be easy since it requires an amendment signed by the states (and quite a few states benefit from the current broken system). But now that a split has happened twice in recent memory we need to consider whether it will keep happening and continue privileging some votes over others, and to me that is unacceptable. One person, one vote. We've got to start somewhere and maybe now is the time.
(If anyone has other organizations that are fighting for the same thing, feel free to suggest them)
posted by Tehhund at 3:57 AM on November 10, 2016 [34 favorites]
I just wrote a letter to Director Comey of the FBI because I don't know what else to do and I am unbelievably angry at the fact that his reprehensible actions have have increased the suffering in the world almost unimaginably. The general theme of the letter is "may God forgive you because I won't" although I might have misspelled "opprobrium". I am so fucking angry at so many people. If you helped create this world I will never, ever forgive you.
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 4:00 AM on November 10, 2016 [82 favorites]
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 4:00 AM on November 10, 2016 [82 favorites]
Or as @dril put it:
the wise man bowed his head solemnly and spoke: "theres actually zero difference between good & bad things. you imbecile. you fucking moron"
posted by threetwentytwo at 4:04 AM on November 10, 2016 [23 favorites]
the wise man bowed his head solemnly and spoke: "theres actually zero difference between good & bad things. you imbecile. you fucking moron"
posted by threetwentytwo at 4:04 AM on November 10, 2016 [23 favorites]
What part of #nevertrump did people not understand?
I'm worried that a lot of nevertrumpers will find "reasons" to jump back on the wagon. Also I'm still in shock about the FBI misuse of power. I'm worried some nevertrumpers will be bullied or threatened into place.
For instance, there are hundreds, if not thousands of nevertrumpers within the military and intelligence. Would they not come to the patriotic conclusion that someone needs to defend the US from dangers? The same with economy. The idea of leaving it to the crazies is as scary as working for/with Trump.
posted by mumimor at 4:07 AM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
I'm worried that a lot of nevertrumpers will find "reasons" to jump back on the wagon. Also I'm still in shock about the FBI misuse of power. I'm worried some nevertrumpers will be bullied or threatened into place.
For instance, there are hundreds, if not thousands of nevertrumpers within the military and intelligence. Would they not come to the patriotic conclusion that someone needs to defend the US from dangers? The same with economy. The idea of leaving it to the crazies is as scary as working for/with Trump.
posted by mumimor at 4:07 AM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
No, Optamystic. Look at the demographics. 51%-45% of college educated white women. 54% to 39% of college educated white men. White people - educated white people - are just as culpable as those uneducated rubes we're so happy to mock.
posted by ChuraChura at 4:08 AM on November 10, 2016 [84 favorites]
posted by ChuraChura at 4:08 AM on November 10, 2016 [84 favorites]
I think the thing that bothers me most is that for six years, the Republicans have basically acted like children, holding their breath and stomping their feet and laying down wailing in the toy store aisle to try to get what they want.
And then we gave them what they wanted.
posted by OHSnap at 4:10 AM on November 10, 2016 [77 favorites]
And then we gave them what they wanted.
posted by OHSnap at 4:10 AM on November 10, 2016 [77 favorites]
To clarify, 51 and 54% voted for Trump, 54 and 39% for Clinton.
posted by ChuraChura at 4:11 AM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by ChuraChura at 4:11 AM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
So for everyone saying "the future is dead" or similar, well, uh, okay, cool, but some of us have kids or, you know, just care about humanity going forward and that answer isn't really acceptable. I mean yes this is unbelievably horrible and many people will suffer tremendously but it isn't literally the end of history (I mean unless there's a nuclear holocaust which I recognize is not off the table here). Odds are good that there will still be people living here and they'll be trying to carve out lives for themselves and their families as best they can so while I recognize that these statements, in one sense, aren't hyperbole, I feel like sinking into despair is a refusal to recognize that there will still be people around who need our help. Yes, everything is fucking terrible, but acting like humanity has just ended is a betrayal of people who are suffering now and future generations who will actually have to live in the future you claim doesn't exist.
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 4:11 AM on November 10, 2016 [114 favorites]
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 4:11 AM on November 10, 2016 [114 favorites]
That said, I totally understand the despairing/nihilistic impulses, I really do, but people need us.
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 4:14 AM on November 10, 2016 [16 favorites]
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 4:14 AM on November 10, 2016 [16 favorites]
trump's policies towards climate change may actually signal the end of humanity, so, I don't think people who think and feel that way are quite unjustified to think and feel the way they do...
posted by and they trembled before her fury at 4:17 AM on November 10, 2016 [24 favorites]
posted by and they trembled before her fury at 4:17 AM on November 10, 2016 [24 favorites]
So we're just going to give up completely on even the possibility of helping future generations?
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 4:20 AM on November 10, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 4:20 AM on November 10, 2016 [7 favorites]
xdvesper: The markets seems to be welcoming Trump - the Dow Jones came within about 25 points of its all-time intraday high of 18,668.44
Fueled by the stocks of prison companies and weapons manufacturers.
posted by bluecore at 4:20 AM on November 10, 2016 [9 favorites]
Fueled by the stocks of prison companies and weapons manufacturers.
posted by bluecore at 4:20 AM on November 10, 2016 [9 favorites]
I can't think of many times in history when a worse person has had more power than Trump is about to.
This whole thing has the warped logic of a nightmare. Nothing makes sense but everything is menacing. Yesterday I was crying and vomiting; today I'm just bone-tired and numb.
I checked out of the election thread early the other day, so maybe everyone's been through the "hopeless bawling" stage already and progressed to "snap into action" mode. If so, I applaud you. We need that, and we need you, and I'll be with you in a minute.
But right now, I am still just obliterated by this.
So many people are going to die.
posted by Rumpled at 4:21 AM on November 10, 2016 [23 favorites]
This whole thing has the warped logic of a nightmare. Nothing makes sense but everything is menacing. Yesterday I was crying and vomiting; today I'm just bone-tired and numb.
I checked out of the election thread early the other day, so maybe everyone's been through the "hopeless bawling" stage already and progressed to "snap into action" mode. If so, I applaud you. We need that, and we need you, and I'll be with you in a minute.
But right now, I am still just obliterated by this.
So many people are going to die.
posted by Rumpled at 4:21 AM on November 10, 2016 [23 favorites]
I've just been so incredibly fucking sad the past 36 hours, I don't know what to do or how to act. Just really raw grief and depression is affecting my general mood and my performance at work and my interactions with friends or family. The country has elected someone who normalizes and validates so many sick things that I thought we were all starting to agree was bad and wrong and false.
Like I felt so confident deep down that, despite the bumps we encounter, we were moving in the right direction. Every other month in this country it seems like we all have to deal with some big, sad, exhausting news event together - a shooting, a nationalized rape case, some kind of awful bathroom bill, for instance - but we were unifying, and public opinion was swaying, and we were clumsily figuring it out even if just incrementally. The idea that this piece of shit is going to stand up and address this stuff (or maybe just stay silent, who even knows) instead of Barack Obama and instead of Hillary Clinton. It's nauseating to think about.
I was so damn excited to move into an era where elected officials in the highest office actually understood or were at least starting to understand what things like systemic racism or systems of poverty or rape culture or feminist issues actually were. Even if they were part of "the establishment", they knew those words! It was such a net positive! And I was so confident that we were moving in the right direction. And now everything feels upside down and opposite. Like we are about to welcome an era of white people saying "I mean I don't like Trump either but I kinda agree with what he was sayin ya know?" Like we've welcomed an era of empowered hate groups, empowered casual racists, empowered rapists, empowered "poor=lazy" privileged frat dude assholes, empowered Blue Lives Matter bullshit.
Just every single wrong thing has now been empowered when it was supposed to be the other way around. It was supposed to be the other way around. It's so hard to go out into the world and go to work and pretend like nothing is happening when everything feels like it's all about to go deeper and deeper into the opposite direction. And so this nauseating pit in my stomach just persists, and the headache you get from holding back tears lingers all day, and I don't know what to do.
posted by windbox at 4:24 AM on November 10, 2016 [118 favorites]
Like I felt so confident deep down that, despite the bumps we encounter, we were moving in the right direction. Every other month in this country it seems like we all have to deal with some big, sad, exhausting news event together - a shooting, a nationalized rape case, some kind of awful bathroom bill, for instance - but we were unifying, and public opinion was swaying, and we were clumsily figuring it out even if just incrementally. The idea that this piece of shit is going to stand up and address this stuff (or maybe just stay silent, who even knows) instead of Barack Obama and instead of Hillary Clinton. It's nauseating to think about.
I was so damn excited to move into an era where elected officials in the highest office actually understood or were at least starting to understand what things like systemic racism or systems of poverty or rape culture or feminist issues actually were. Even if they were part of "the establishment", they knew those words! It was such a net positive! And I was so confident that we were moving in the right direction. And now everything feels upside down and opposite. Like we are about to welcome an era of white people saying "I mean I don't like Trump either but I kinda agree with what he was sayin ya know?" Like we've welcomed an era of empowered hate groups, empowered casual racists, empowered rapists, empowered "poor=lazy" privileged frat dude assholes, empowered Blue Lives Matter bullshit.
Just every single wrong thing has now been empowered when it was supposed to be the other way around. It was supposed to be the other way around. It's so hard to go out into the world and go to work and pretend like nothing is happening when everything feels like it's all about to go deeper and deeper into the opposite direction. And so this nauseating pit in my stomach just persists, and the headache you get from holding back tears lingers all day, and I don't know what to do.
posted by windbox at 4:24 AM on November 10, 2016 [118 favorites]
Calgary film producer Chris Ball is coming back from America’s presidential election with five staples holding together the gash on top of his head. Ball spent the evening in a Santa Monica, Calif. bar watching poll results come in. As the election progressed, he said attitudes in the bar became more and more heated – on both sides of the campaign. “People started launching homophobic slurs at me from afar,” he said. “I mean, I kind of got into it, but I didn’t want to provoke them.”
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:25 AM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:25 AM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
So we're just going to give up completely on even the possibility of helping future generations?No, not at all; but it's very hard not to feel immensely helpless right now. There are way too many things that trump's policies will absolutely devastate and I don't have an inkling right now as to how I'll be able to deal with any of the stuff that affects me on a personal level, let alone the big world-ending stuff.
posted by and they trembled before her fury at 4:26 AM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
This week Donald Trump was elected president and I discovered I almost certainly have Multiple Sclerosis.
Both of these were total surprises.
I am truly unsure which is the worse news.
Fortunately I live in a country with a halfway-sane medical system.
My heart and love go out to every single person who is going to be hurt by this bizarre election.
posted by Combat Wombat at 4:26 AM on November 10, 2016 [89 favorites]
Both of these were total surprises.
I am truly unsure which is the worse news.
Fortunately I live in a country with a halfway-sane medical system.
My heart and love go out to every single person who is going to be hurt by this bizarre election.
posted by Combat Wombat at 4:26 AM on November 10, 2016 [89 favorites]
I had some disappointing conversations with my coworkers yesterday. I really try and avoid talking politics around the office. Especially, yesterday, but they kept bringing it up.
All four are all straight white males.
One voted for Hillary. Because he thought the Trump would wreck the economy.
One voted for Johnson. He thought both Hillary and Trump were equally corrupt and immoral.
Two voted for Trump. One is a religious conservative. We never talk politics but at least I understand where he's coming from because I grew around a lot of religious conservatives.
The other coworker who Trump voted was the more educational. All of Trump sexual behaviors were argued as being no worse than Bill Clinton's behavior in the 90s. Hillary was complicit because she, in his option, ruthless attacked women who accused Bill.
The key thing I realized later in the day was no one had mentioned Trump's race baiting and demonization of minorities and immigrants. When I bought this up they nodded their heads and said that was bad. One coworker even talked about all the really bad racist things his FB friends were posting.
Here was the my key takeaway. They do not consider race relations a priority. It is really low on the list of things they think about. If you bring it up. They will nod their heads and say the right things but it does not have any serious emotional impact on them. It is not a major part of their calculations when deciding on a candidate.
If the Democratic party wants to trim away enough white voters from the Republicans to win. The party needs to be very careful about painting in a broad brush the other side as racists. My coworkers are not racist. They are basically apathetic about racial issues because it does not directly effect them.
I needed to write this down somewhere to help process my anger and not burn any bridges at work.
Thanks Metafilter.
posted by KaizenSoze at 4:28 AM on November 10, 2016 [166 favorites]
All four are all straight white males.
One voted for Hillary. Because he thought the Trump would wreck the economy.
One voted for Johnson. He thought both Hillary and Trump were equally corrupt and immoral.
Two voted for Trump. One is a religious conservative. We never talk politics but at least I understand where he's coming from because I grew around a lot of religious conservatives.
The other coworker who Trump voted was the more educational. All of Trump sexual behaviors were argued as being no worse than Bill Clinton's behavior in the 90s. Hillary was complicit because she, in his option, ruthless attacked women who accused Bill.
The key thing I realized later in the day was no one had mentioned Trump's race baiting and demonization of minorities and immigrants. When I bought this up they nodded their heads and said that was bad. One coworker even talked about all the really bad racist things his FB friends were posting.
Here was the my key takeaway. They do not consider race relations a priority. It is really low on the list of things they think about. If you bring it up. They will nod their heads and say the right things but it does not have any serious emotional impact on them. It is not a major part of their calculations when deciding on a candidate.
If the Democratic party wants to trim away enough white voters from the Republicans to win. The party needs to be very careful about painting in a broad brush the other side as racists. My coworkers are not racist. They are basically apathetic about racial issues because it does not directly effect them.
I needed to write this down somewhere to help process my anger and not burn any bridges at work.
Thanks Metafilter.
posted by KaizenSoze at 4:28 AM on November 10, 2016 [166 favorites]
It might be the lessons of Brexit, or if might be the lessons of Rob Ford or even Boaty McBoatface. Even the "lessons of Brexit" probably don't even meet the narrative spun for them.
posted by Artw at 4:28 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 4:28 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
Trump only won because of a system leftover from the days of slavery.
Our electoral system is a really hard problem, but it's still easier to solve than racism.
posted by box at 4:29 AM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
Our electoral system is a really hard problem, but it's still easier to solve than racism.
posted by box at 4:29 AM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
*Transcript of petebest's confection speech, Nov 10, 2016*
Fellow MeatFilters, . . . It's been a long, . . long 19 month year. And it's over. So there's that.
I would like to thank Wordshore and ChurchHatesTucker in addition to the various MittenCortexes among us for valiantly propelling us through the election with information-rich posts and careful bonsai-threadtending. Without you, we'd be less, probably by a lot. Thank you for excellent, considered work.
Thank you to the canvassers for the field reports that gave us all so much to enjoy about what was otherwise the ugliest campaign season in modern history. Your dedication both to the GOTV effort and your excellent commenting skeelz are much favorited and you are the stars of our combined narrative.
A special thank you to those of you who have shared personal insights that are normally not shared in fast-moving, snark-infested threads such as these. Thank you for communicating bravely - that is the way to do it, and you've shown everyone how many times. Thank you.
We will move forward, twirling towards freedom, in these and other threads Thank You MetaFilter.
Please consider kicking a few bucks towards the site if you haven't already. It's not tax-deductible, but it is more delicious than pizza.
May the quidnunc be with you, and may the quidnunc be with these United States of America!
*waves*
*Prince's "Pop Life" plays*
posted by petebest at 4:31 AM on November 10, 2016 [47 favorites]
Fellow MeatFilters, . . . It's been a long, . . long 19 month year. And it's over. So there's that.
I would like to thank Wordshore and ChurchHatesTucker in addition to the various MittenCortexes among us for valiantly propelling us through the election with information-rich posts and careful bonsai-threadtending. Without you, we'd be less, probably by a lot. Thank you for excellent, considered work.
Thank you to the canvassers for the field reports that gave us all so much to enjoy about what was otherwise the ugliest campaign season in modern history. Your dedication both to the GOTV effort and your excellent commenting skeelz are much favorited and you are the stars of our combined narrative.
A special thank you to those of you who have shared personal insights that are normally not shared in fast-moving, snark-infested threads such as these. Thank you for communicating bravely - that is the way to do it, and you've shown everyone how many times. Thank you.
We will move forward, twirling towards freedom, in these and other threads Thank You MetaFilter.
Please consider kicking a few bucks towards the site if you haven't already. It's not tax-deductible, but it is more delicious than pizza.
May the quidnunc be with you, and may the quidnunc be with these United States of America!
*waves*
*Prince's "Pop Life" plays*
posted by petebest at 4:31 AM on November 10, 2016 [47 favorites]
I'm really worried for the Baltic nations, for Israel and for Iran. I'm also deeply worried for South Korea, not least because they are in the middle of their own melt-down. Ukraine is lost. In all these countries, I'm afraid many people will loose their lives because of of what happened yesterday.
I'm worried for the rest of the West, because now, with both the US and the UK checked off, the far right is seeing opportunity, the middle is paralyzed, and the left are not going to be strong enough to resist the reactionary revolutions. As in the US, the racism will flourish, and the weakest members of society will loose whatever limited protection they had. There will be a rise in political islam as a reaction to that racism.
I'm worried for the climate. Millions of people from all over the globe will loose their homes and livelihood because of it, and become unwanted refugees. And its not "only" third world nations. Look at the droughts in the American West and in Australia.
Species of plants and animals will die out. And maybe some of them, it could be the bees, will take us with them. We really don't know.
I'm worried for my children, for the children in my family and for the young people I teach. Their futures look incredibly bleak. I don't know how to advise them or support them. This was the main reason I kept on crying yesterday and just typing this makes the tears well up again.
In the end, demographics will win - but the death throes of white supremacy are going to be a terrible spectacle, and that end is at least 20 years off. I hope enough people will come to their senses before that. In a few days I'll probably figure out how I can contribute to making that change, but right now I think it is OK to admit grief and fear.
The night before the election, a friend told me he had become a member of the social democratic party here. Not to support what they are doing now, panicking over the far right and accepting market economy, but to turn the tide and make them stand proud for their original ideals. That is one thing to do - In the US that would be to go in and influence the Democrats, not become a socialist.
posted by mumimor at 4:32 AM on November 10, 2016 [15 favorites]
I'm worried for the rest of the West, because now, with both the US and the UK checked off, the far right is seeing opportunity, the middle is paralyzed, and the left are not going to be strong enough to resist the reactionary revolutions. As in the US, the racism will flourish, and the weakest members of society will loose whatever limited protection they had. There will be a rise in political islam as a reaction to that racism.
I'm worried for the climate. Millions of people from all over the globe will loose their homes and livelihood because of it, and become unwanted refugees. And its not "only" third world nations. Look at the droughts in the American West and in Australia.
Species of plants and animals will die out. And maybe some of them, it could be the bees, will take us with them. We really don't know.
I'm worried for my children, for the children in my family and for the young people I teach. Their futures look incredibly bleak. I don't know how to advise them or support them. This was the main reason I kept on crying yesterday and just typing this makes the tears well up again.
In the end, demographics will win - but the death throes of white supremacy are going to be a terrible spectacle, and that end is at least 20 years off. I hope enough people will come to their senses before that. In a few days I'll probably figure out how I can contribute to making that change, but right now I think it is OK to admit grief and fear.
The night before the election, a friend told me he had become a member of the social democratic party here. Not to support what they are doing now, panicking over the far right and accepting market economy, but to turn the tide and make them stand proud for their original ideals. That is one thing to do - In the US that would be to go in and influence the Democrats, not become a socialist.
posted by mumimor at 4:32 AM on November 10, 2016 [15 favorites]
A house three blocks away from where I used to live in Noe Valley/Dolores Heights is now waving a Nazi flag in their front yard.
I live about ten minutes down the highway from Elwood, Indiana, the "traditional" home of the Klan in the state. I keep waiting for semi-regular sights of sheets and hoods in broad daylight (it does happen here occasionally folks.)
posted by Thorzdad at 4:33 AM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
I live about ten minutes down the highway from Elwood, Indiana, the "traditional" home of the Klan in the state. I keep waiting for semi-regular sights of sheets and hoods in broad daylight (it does happen here occasionally folks.)
posted by Thorzdad at 4:33 AM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
Here is the letter I wrote to Director Comey:
Part one
Part two
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 4:34 AM on November 10, 2016 [10 favorites]
Part one
Part two
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 4:34 AM on November 10, 2016 [10 favorites]
Apathy to overt racism is racism. Your co-workers are racist, just quietly and comfortably racist in a system designed to make that easy for them.
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 4:36 AM on November 10, 2016 [214 favorites]
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 4:36 AM on November 10, 2016 [214 favorites]
[National popular vote] won't be quick, and it won't be easy since it requires an amendment signed by the states
That proposal -- the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact -- is designed not to require an amendment. The idea is that the Constitution just says that a state chooses its electors and doesn't say how. It would be constitution for a legislature to simply select them directly, and indeed this happened sometimes in the first few elections. It would be constitutional to seat electors by lottery, or through gladiatorial combat.
And it would also be constitutional for a state to choose the slate of electors pledged to support whoever won the national popular vote instead of the slate pledged to support the winner of the statewide popular vote. I wouldn't be super hopeful about this. In the end, it would require large states that were either already swing-ish states (Ohio, Florida) and safe Republican states (Texas) to sign on, and given that the bias in our current electoral system is entirely against Democrats... OTOH, maybe you could make "Hey, if y'all in Ohio pass this, you'll only get a normal amount of election ads and polls instead of being swamped by them!" a selling point.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 4:37 AM on November 10, 2016 [12 favorites]
That proposal -- the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact -- is designed not to require an amendment. The idea is that the Constitution just says that a state chooses its electors and doesn't say how. It would be constitution for a legislature to simply select them directly, and indeed this happened sometimes in the first few elections. It would be constitutional to seat electors by lottery, or through gladiatorial combat.
And it would also be constitutional for a state to choose the slate of electors pledged to support whoever won the national popular vote instead of the slate pledged to support the winner of the statewide popular vote. I wouldn't be super hopeful about this. In the end, it would require large states that were either already swing-ish states (Ohio, Florida) and safe Republican states (Texas) to sign on, and given that the bias in our current electoral system is entirely against Democrats... OTOH, maybe you could make "Hey, if y'all in Ohio pass this, you'll only get a normal amount of election ads and polls instead of being swamped by them!" a selling point.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 4:37 AM on November 10, 2016 [12 favorites]
I am having a hard time imagining any response to even failure to rebuke Trump with anything other than unhinging my serpent jaw, leaning in close, and screaming "FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOU!" until the skin flakes off of their idiot faces.
A co-worker of mine, sweet guy, basically imagine if GOOGLE RON PAUL was given human shape and a friendly-accountant sort of personality, tried to talk with me about the election. We had been regularly discussing some of the topics, and over the years I've often tried to pressure him more toward the left (he's the socially-liberal, fiscally-conservative breed) with my cunning arguments. Usually all very friendly. I ended up being very curt with him because I was clenching my jaw to keep from screaming obscenities across the center because I'm pretty sure he voted for Johnson or left it blank.
posted by Scattercat at 4:38 AM on November 10, 2016 [7 favorites]
A co-worker of mine, sweet guy, basically imagine if GOOGLE RON PAUL was given human shape and a friendly-accountant sort of personality, tried to talk with me about the election. We had been regularly discussing some of the topics, and over the years I've often tried to pressure him more toward the left (he's the socially-liberal, fiscally-conservative breed) with my cunning arguments. Usually all very friendly. I ended up being very curt with him because I was clenching my jaw to keep from screaming obscenities across the center because I'm pretty sure he voted for Johnson or left it blank.
posted by Scattercat at 4:38 AM on November 10, 2016 [7 favorites]
More than 80% of white evangelicals voted for Donald Trump. These are people who've spent the last forty years fantasizing about being brave resistance fighters against the Antichrist. And when an authoritarian cult arose around a charismatic leader who's literally the opposite of Jesus, they couldn't bend the knee to him fast enough.
posted by EarBucket at 4:46 AM on November 10, 2016 [250 favorites]
posted by EarBucket at 4:46 AM on November 10, 2016 [250 favorites]
My best friend wrote his own name in.
In FLORIDA.
I don't know what the hell to do with him.
posted by Mooski at 4:46 AM on November 10, 2016 [43 favorites]
In FLORIDA.
I don't know what the hell to do with him.
posted by Mooski at 4:46 AM on November 10, 2016 [43 favorites]
Apathy to overt racism is racism. Your co-workers are racist, just quietly and comfortably racist in a system designed to make that easy for them.
I'm not condoning their attitude I'm trying to figure out how to get them to change their votes.
If something racist happened right in front of them. They would be shocked, anger, and I'm sure they would say or do something. But they are so insulated from the day to day reality of racism that they do not think it is that important.
Calling them racists or passive racists will do nothing to change their vote. If anything it will cause them to vote for the other side out anger.
posted by KaizenSoze at 4:47 AM on November 10, 2016 [41 favorites]
Well, I've lost the 5 lbs of stress eating weight I gained during the election via evacuating out all orifices Tuesday night and being mostly unable to eat anything since then.
I exist in a pretty extreme liberal bubble. Co-workers were universally hollow eyed at work yesterday. Hugs were exchanged. My boss thanked me for canvassing and I nearly burst into tears. My mother and sister in law are group texting me anti-Trump memes. My Facebook is despondent. My husband was crying when I got home from work last night. No one knows what to do.
I'm just so filled with a bone deep rage. I have no forgiveness available. This failure rests at the feet of the people who voted for and enabled this monster and no one else.
posted by soren_lorensen at 4:48 AM on November 10, 2016 [65 favorites]
I exist in a pretty extreme liberal bubble. Co-workers were universally hollow eyed at work yesterday. Hugs were exchanged. My boss thanked me for canvassing and I nearly burst into tears. My mother and sister in law are group texting me anti-Trump memes. My Facebook is despondent. My husband was crying when I got home from work last night. No one knows what to do.
I'm just so filled with a bone deep rage. I have no forgiveness available. This failure rests at the feet of the people who voted for and enabled this monster and no one else.
posted by soren_lorensen at 4:48 AM on November 10, 2016 [65 favorites]
My coworkers are not racist. They are basically apathetic about racial issues because it does not directly effect them.
No, your co-workers are in fact racist. When you're offered a chance to get something you want by throwing minorities to the wolves, and you take it because hey, no skin off my nose, that's racism. That's evil. It's low-key evil distinct from actively advocating slavery or painting swastikas on walls, but it's more than mere "apathy" to racial issues.
What we have to work with is the fact that that kind of racism never went away in America, and for many (a majority of?) people it never stopped being socially acceptable. And changing it in the short term, if ever, isn't going to happen.
That's part of why I kept hoping the Clinton campaign would go harder on Trump as a con artist rather than a racist and sexist -- because that message boils down to "if you elect him, the cost to our society will be too high," and too many people don't care about the costs others have to pay. They'd care if they knew Trump wasn't actually going to give them what they want.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 4:49 AM on November 10, 2016 [163 favorites]
No, your co-workers are in fact racist. When you're offered a chance to get something you want by throwing minorities to the wolves, and you take it because hey, no skin off my nose, that's racism. That's evil. It's low-key evil distinct from actively advocating slavery or painting swastikas on walls, but it's more than mere "apathy" to racial issues.
What we have to work with is the fact that that kind of racism never went away in America, and for many (a majority of?) people it never stopped being socially acceptable. And changing it in the short term, if ever, isn't going to happen.
That's part of why I kept hoping the Clinton campaign would go harder on Trump as a con artist rather than a racist and sexist -- because that message boils down to "if you elect him, the cost to our society will be too high," and too many people don't care about the costs others have to pay. They'd care if they knew Trump wasn't actually going to give them what they want.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 4:49 AM on November 10, 2016 [163 favorites]
Hopefully the Clintons will go away forever now (SPOILER ALERT: They won't)
I think it's really cool how a woman can get shat on and slandered by a misogynistic press and public for decades of her life, keep going despite it, get within a handsbreadth of a historic feminist milestone, and then get shat on for failing to reach it because of how public perception was shaped by aforementioned misogyny.
It is super, super cool to see those who never supported her from the start and did their best to undermine her blame her loss entirely on her, as if she had the power to shape the social and media forces arranged against her success.
oh wait, no it's not
posted by Anonymous at 4:50 AM on November 10, 2016
I think it's really cool how a woman can get shat on and slandered by a misogynistic press and public for decades of her life, keep going despite it, get within a handsbreadth of a historic feminist milestone, and then get shat on for failing to reach it because of how public perception was shaped by aforementioned misogyny.
It is super, super cool to see those who never supported her from the start and did their best to undermine her blame her loss entirely on her, as if she had the power to shape the social and media forces arranged against her success.
oh wait, no it's not
posted by Anonymous at 4:50 AM on November 10, 2016
Over in the other thread I was talking about how grim it was at work (I work at the International Rescue Committee, and in the past I've held that close to the vest out of some "social media responsibility" gesture but I'm going to be more open about that). We are almost certainly going to lose a shit-ton of funding because of this. I even had a little meltdown in my boss' office about "am I going to have a job still???" and she managed to talk me off the ledge (I work in HR, and she pointed out that "no matter what, we will still be hiring and firing people and giving them raises, and if they cut any of us who actually process all of that they're screwed"). And the hell of it is, the funding that gets cut because of "stopping the refugee resettlement" ignores the entirety of the IRC's work - we don't just resettle people in the US, we also have schools in Pakistan and hospitals in Liberia and shelters in Kosovo and job retraining programs in Kinshassa and Amman and...and cutting our funding affects all of that.
I leave it to y'all to connect the dots between the lack of job programs and the appeal of ISIS to a young guy in Amman who's got no other options.
Our CEO had a group huddle yesterday to talk about the election. It was a pep talk, and I mentioned in the other thread that I spoke up and shared the news that a couple Mefites had already memailed me to ask how they could help "so, yeah, people still care and want to help us". (There was a muffled cheer from the group who'd come down from fundraising.) But at the start of the session, the CEO said something really eloquent about what we must be feeling, that helped - if you're hurting right now, if you're despondent and in mourning, then...honor that. It is a sign that you care deeply about this country, and that you have high ideals and that those ideals are also things you care deeply about. You wouldn't hurt if you didn't care. So stick to your ideals and live by them.
And that's actually combining in my head with Garrison Keillor's reaction to the Trump win. His response may come across as cynical - it sounds like a sort of shrugging "Okay, the Republicans have the Congress and the presidency now; maybe we'll just let 'em have it for a while." It's not coming across to me as giving up - it's coming across to me as a "give 'em enough rope" kind of thing. Democrats need to make sure that whatever happens now, the Republicans own it all. Democrats can, and should, fight for the dispossessed and stand up against injustices, but other than that..."Democrats can spend couple years raising heirloom tomatoes, meditating, reading Jane Austen, traveling around the country, tasting artisan beers, and let the Republicans build the wall and carry on the trade war with China and deport the undocumented and deal with opioids, and we Democrats can go for a long , brisk walk and smell the roses." And...I kind of like that, that kind of "Hmm. Okay, you think you can do this all on your own? Okay, let's let you try, then." And then sitting back and watching as they fuck things up and the population turns against them too because of their fucking up.
MInd you, in his piece, Garrison said that the Democrats should sit back for four years. That is the only point at which I disagree - I say we only give it two years. 2018 is a chance to reshuffle the legislature, don't forget.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:50 AM on November 10, 2016 [49 favorites]
I leave it to y'all to connect the dots between the lack of job programs and the appeal of ISIS to a young guy in Amman who's got no other options.
Our CEO had a group huddle yesterday to talk about the election. It was a pep talk, and I mentioned in the other thread that I spoke up and shared the news that a couple Mefites had already memailed me to ask how they could help "so, yeah, people still care and want to help us". (There was a muffled cheer from the group who'd come down from fundraising.) But at the start of the session, the CEO said something really eloquent about what we must be feeling, that helped - if you're hurting right now, if you're despondent and in mourning, then...honor that. It is a sign that you care deeply about this country, and that you have high ideals and that those ideals are also things you care deeply about. You wouldn't hurt if you didn't care. So stick to your ideals and live by them.
And that's actually combining in my head with Garrison Keillor's reaction to the Trump win. His response may come across as cynical - it sounds like a sort of shrugging "Okay, the Republicans have the Congress and the presidency now; maybe we'll just let 'em have it for a while." It's not coming across to me as giving up - it's coming across to me as a "give 'em enough rope" kind of thing. Democrats need to make sure that whatever happens now, the Republicans own it all. Democrats can, and should, fight for the dispossessed and stand up against injustices, but other than that..."Democrats can spend couple years raising heirloom tomatoes, meditating, reading Jane Austen, traveling around the country, tasting artisan beers, and let the Republicans build the wall and carry on the trade war with China and deport the undocumented and deal with opioids, and we Democrats can go for a long , brisk walk and smell the roses." And...I kind of like that, that kind of "Hmm. Okay, you think you can do this all on your own? Okay, let's let you try, then." And then sitting back and watching as they fuck things up and the population turns against them too because of their fucking up.
MInd you, in his piece, Garrison said that the Democrats should sit back for four years. That is the only point at which I disagree - I say we only give it two years. 2018 is a chance to reshuffle the legislature, don't forget.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:50 AM on November 10, 2016 [49 favorites]
I think the Hillary Clinton that said “My dream is a hemispheric common market" does need to go away forever now, optamystic, latex, etc. If otoh the Hillary Clinton who briefly mentioned clean energy there in the same breath wished to focus on that, or various other important projects she mentioned, then I'll applaud her doing so.
There is also the "open boarders" part of that quote that Trump seized upon. I think neo-liberals like Clinton have won some ground on that front though, even if only in the form of HB11 visas, but damaged the overall case for "open boarders" by associating it with destructive trade policies. I'd suggest laying off increases to the yearly number of immigrants or asylum seekers for a generation or so, while instead focusing on defending existing immigrants rights, like untying them from the restrictions of HB-1s. And primarily focusing on higher priority stuff like climate change.
Climate change may be escalating so fast it could be 'game over', scientists warn
posted by jeffburdges at 4:51 AM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
There is also the "open boarders" part of that quote that Trump seized upon. I think neo-liberals like Clinton have won some ground on that front though, even if only in the form of HB11 visas, but damaged the overall case for "open boarders" by associating it with destructive trade policies. I'd suggest laying off increases to the yearly number of immigrants or asylum seekers for a generation or so, while instead focusing on defending existing immigrants rights, like untying them from the restrictions of HB-1s. And primarily focusing on higher priority stuff like climate change.
Climate change may be escalating so fast it could be 'game over', scientists warn
posted by jeffburdges at 4:51 AM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
We liberal elitists are now completely in the clear. The government is in Republican hands. Let them deal with him. Democrats can spend four years raising heirloom tomatoes, meditating, reading Jane Austen, traveling around the country, tasting artisan beers, and let the Republicans build the wall and carry on the trade war with China and deport the undocumented and deal with opioids, and we Democrats can go for a long , brisk walk and smell the roses.
I've been listening to A Prairie Home Companion for as long as I can remember, so I don't say this lightly: Fuck Garrison Keillor. "I'm a rich white guy, I'll be fine, LOL"
posted by EarBucket at 4:52 AM on November 10, 2016 [74 favorites]
I've been listening to A Prairie Home Companion for as long as I can remember, so I don't say this lightly: Fuck Garrison Keillor. "I'm a rich white guy, I'll be fine, LOL"
posted by EarBucket at 4:52 AM on November 10, 2016 [74 favorites]
as if she had the power to shape the social and media forces arranged against her success.
If she was helpless to shape the social and media forces arranged against her, she should have recognized that before she decided to run for President, and not run for President.
posted by Slap*Happy at 4:53 AM on November 10, 2016 [8 favorites]
If she was helpless to shape the social and media forces arranged against her, she should have recognized that before she decided to run for President, and not run for President.
posted by Slap*Happy at 4:53 AM on November 10, 2016 [8 favorites]
Democrats need to make sure that whatever happens now, the Republicans own it all. Democrats can, and should, fight for the dispossessed and stand up against injustices, but other than that..."Democrats can spend couple years raising heirloom tomatoes, meditating, reading Jane Austen, traveling around the country, tasting artisan beers, and let the Republicans build the wall and carry on the trade war with China and deport the undocumented and deal with opioids, and we Democrats can go for a long , brisk walk and smell the roses."
And when the Republicans' schemes collapse under the weight of their internal contradictions, guess who'll be the scapegoats who Stabbed America In The Back? That's right: the decadent artisan-beer-tasting liberal traitors in our midst.
posted by acb at 4:53 AM on November 10, 2016 [14 favorites]
And when the Republicans' schemes collapse under the weight of their internal contradictions, guess who'll be the scapegoats who Stabbed America In The Back? That's right: the decadent artisan-beer-tasting liberal traitors in our midst.
posted by acb at 4:53 AM on November 10, 2016 [14 favorites]
For the people behind this coming authoritarian regime, the goal now is to turn the country into one giant prison excercise yard.
posted by bonobothegreat at 4:54 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by bonobothegreat at 4:54 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
Can we morph #HappyFunSeptember into #HappyFunNextFourYears?
posted by noneuclidean at 4:54 AM on November 10, 2016
posted by noneuclidean at 4:54 AM on November 10, 2016
A few quick things:
- Stop Making Sense is on YouTube
- I was recently invited to play at an event related to A Day Without Art, a reaction to the AIDS crisis from the Boston art scene. I was planning on performing a set of 80s punk songs. I've also (coincidentally) been reading a lot about the AIDS crisis in NYC in the early 80s. I keep seeing parallels between those stories and today and I'm scared to death.
- I plan on continuing to busk in the Boston subways, and I'm learning a set of Clash songs for the duration of my "tour" of the subways. I will also start wearing a white rose somewhere on my person as a tribute to Sophie Scholl, the anti-Nazi artist and resistance fighter. It's not much (and I will be doing activist work in addition to busking, because DUH), but if anyone else wants to pick that up as a symbol, I invite you.
- I replaced my Tim Kaine button with a Mockingjay.
posted by pxe2000 at 4:55 AM on November 10, 2016 [20 favorites]
- Stop Making Sense is on YouTube
- I was recently invited to play at an event related to A Day Without Art, a reaction to the AIDS crisis from the Boston art scene. I was planning on performing a set of 80s punk songs. I've also (coincidentally) been reading a lot about the AIDS crisis in NYC in the early 80s. I keep seeing parallels between those stories and today and I'm scared to death.
- I plan on continuing to busk in the Boston subways, and I'm learning a set of Clash songs for the duration of my "tour" of the subways. I will also start wearing a white rose somewhere on my person as a tribute to Sophie Scholl, the anti-Nazi artist and resistance fighter. It's not much (and I will be doing activist work in addition to busking, because DUH), but if anyone else wants to pick that up as a symbol, I invite you.
- I replaced my Tim Kaine button with a Mockingjay.
posted by pxe2000 at 4:55 AM on November 10, 2016 [20 favorites]
@pgrrrls: Please cease with the white privilege bullshit of "good art will come out of this"
posted by acb at 4:55 AM on November 10, 2016 [49 favorites]
posted by acb at 4:55 AM on November 10, 2016 [49 favorites]
I've been listening to A Prairie Home Companion for as long as I can remember, so I don't say this lightly: Fuck Garrison Keillor. "I'm a rich white guy, I'll be fine, LOL"
Penguin: You look like you're wearing a Blissfully Ignorant Guy With Zero Empathy suit.
Keillor: Who says I'm not?
posted by delfin at 4:57 AM on November 10, 2016 [14 favorites]
Penguin: You look like you're wearing a Blissfully Ignorant Guy With Zero Empathy suit.
Keillor: Who says I'm not?
posted by delfin at 4:57 AM on November 10, 2016 [14 favorites]
I have been thinking about the messages the Democrats need to be consistent about sending, and another that occurred to me is that Democrats win when people vote and Republicans only win when people don't. Tragically, this election validated Republican voter suppression -- thank you, John Roberts! -- not only this time but also in future elections, as a conservative Supreme Court is likely to be hostile to universal access to the franchise ("original intent," my eye).
All Democrats can do is shine a light on Republican attempts to disenfranchise minority voters, but they must do so.
posted by Gelatin at 4:58 AM on November 10, 2016 [16 favorites]
All Democrats can do is shine a light on Republican attempts to disenfranchise minority voters, but they must do so.
posted by Gelatin at 4:58 AM on November 10, 2016 [16 favorites]
....Yikes, I had not considered how that bit of Garrison's would come across, sorry. I think I took it as a given that it is on the Democrats to be watchdogs as WELL as being hands off. Like, if the Republicans get it together long enough to enact a policy of any kind, then we stand up and say FUCK no, but otherwise we just sort of watch them run around like headless chickens all "but why isn't this working the way I thought it would what do I do".
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:00 AM on November 10, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:00 AM on November 10, 2016 [9 favorites]
Climate change gives me nightmares and Trump has pretty much closed the door on my thoughts of having kids. The Supreme Court is gonna be with us for a generation, and is absurdly depressing especially for everyone who's not a rich white male.
Otherwise, sure. Let the Republicans have all the rope they want to hang themselves in Congress and the executive. But to really get out of this hole we gotta start organizing state legislatures in 18 to rewrite corrupt voting laws to win nationwide in 20 so we can maybe get back to normal by 24. But like I said the court and the planet are already spinning round the toilet bowl, so...
posted by Glibpaxman at 5:00 AM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
Otherwise, sure. Let the Republicans have all the rope they want to hang themselves in Congress and the executive. But to really get out of this hole we gotta start organizing state legislatures in 18 to rewrite corrupt voting laws to win nationwide in 20 so we can maybe get back to normal by 24. But like I said the court and the planet are already spinning round the toilet bowl, so...
posted by Glibpaxman at 5:00 AM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
I also found a great, inspiring piece by David Swanson on Counterpunch. Sadly his advice and call to action will no doubt be ignored. But if the US stopped its endless war policy (with all the ensuing death, environmental damage, and financial cost) and shut down its overseas bases, that would be the real revolution. Highly recommended, here are a few excerpts:
Dear Democrats,
Are you finding yourselves suddenly a bit doubtful of the wisdom of drone wars? Presidential wars without Congress? Massive investment in new, smaller, “more usable” nuclear weapons? The expansion of bases across Africa and Asia? Are you disturbed by the wars in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya, and Yemen? Can total surveillance and the persecution of whistleblowers hit a point where they’ve gone too far? Is the new Cold War with Russia looking less than ideal now? How about the militarization of U.S. police: is it time to consider alternatives to that?
…
Dear Republicans,
Your outsider is threatening insiderness. He’s got the same tribe of DC corporate lobbyists planning his nominations that Hillary Clinton had lined up for hers. Can we resist that trend? Can we insist that the wars be ended? Can those moments of off-the-cuff honesty about dinosaurs like NATO be turned into actual action? Donald Trump took a lot of heat for proposing to be fair to Palestinians as well as Israelis, and he backed off fast. Can we encourage him to stand behind that initial inclination?
Can we stop the Trans-Pacific Partnership and end NAFTA as well? We heard a million speeches about how bad NAFTA is. How about actually ending it? Can we stop the looming war supplemental spending bill? Can we put a swift halt to efforts in Congress to repeal the right to sue Saudi Arabia and other nations for their wars and lesser acts of terrorism?
…
Dear World,
We apologize for having elected President Trump as well as for nearly electing President Clinton. Many of you believe we defeated the representative of the enlightenment in favor of the sexist racist buffoon. This may be a good thing. Or at least it may be preferable to your eight-year-long delusion that President Obama was a man of peace and justice.
I hate to break it to you, but the United States government has been intent on dominating the rest of you since the day it was formed. If electing an obnoxious president helps you understand that, so much the better. Stop joining in U.S. “humanitarian wars” please. They never were humanitarian, and if you can recognize that now, so much the better. The new guy openly wants to “steal their oil.” So did the last several presidents, although none of them said so. Are we awake now?
Shut down the U.S. bases in your country. They represent your subservience to Donald Trump. Close them.
posted by robbyrobs at 5:00 AM on November 10, 2016 [19 favorites]
Dear Democrats,
Are you finding yourselves suddenly a bit doubtful of the wisdom of drone wars? Presidential wars without Congress? Massive investment in new, smaller, “more usable” nuclear weapons? The expansion of bases across Africa and Asia? Are you disturbed by the wars in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya, and Yemen? Can total surveillance and the persecution of whistleblowers hit a point where they’ve gone too far? Is the new Cold War with Russia looking less than ideal now? How about the militarization of U.S. police: is it time to consider alternatives to that?
…
Dear Republicans,
Your outsider is threatening insiderness. He’s got the same tribe of DC corporate lobbyists planning his nominations that Hillary Clinton had lined up for hers. Can we resist that trend? Can we insist that the wars be ended? Can those moments of off-the-cuff honesty about dinosaurs like NATO be turned into actual action? Donald Trump took a lot of heat for proposing to be fair to Palestinians as well as Israelis, and he backed off fast. Can we encourage him to stand behind that initial inclination?
Can we stop the Trans-Pacific Partnership and end NAFTA as well? We heard a million speeches about how bad NAFTA is. How about actually ending it? Can we stop the looming war supplemental spending bill? Can we put a swift halt to efforts in Congress to repeal the right to sue Saudi Arabia and other nations for their wars and lesser acts of terrorism?
…
Dear World,
We apologize for having elected President Trump as well as for nearly electing President Clinton. Many of you believe we defeated the representative of the enlightenment in favor of the sexist racist buffoon. This may be a good thing. Or at least it may be preferable to your eight-year-long delusion that President Obama was a man of peace and justice.
I hate to break it to you, but the United States government has been intent on dominating the rest of you since the day it was formed. If electing an obnoxious president helps you understand that, so much the better. Stop joining in U.S. “humanitarian wars” please. They never were humanitarian, and if you can recognize that now, so much the better. The new guy openly wants to “steal their oil.” So did the last several presidents, although none of them said so. Are we awake now?
Shut down the U.S. bases in your country. They represent your subservience to Donald Trump. Close them.
posted by robbyrobs at 5:00 AM on November 10, 2016 [19 favorites]
Climate change may be escalating so fast it could be 'game over', scientists warn
Even if there are no horrible discoveries about how climate change is advancing even faster than we thought, even if it's just what we knew was coming four years ago, the Trump presidency is almost certainly game over. He'll undo every meaningful climate change policy the US enacted under Obama, and cripple the Paris agreement (which depended on buy-in from the wealthy nations to push the developing ones along for the ride). By the time we have a chance to throw him out in 2020, the next president would have to start the regulatory process from scratch again, there'd be no meaningful reductions for a decade or more, and we're fucked.
In related news, my wife and I aren't planning to have kids anymore.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 5:02 AM on November 10, 2016 [20 favorites]
Even if there are no horrible discoveries about how climate change is advancing even faster than we thought, even if it's just what we knew was coming four years ago, the Trump presidency is almost certainly game over. He'll undo every meaningful climate change policy the US enacted under Obama, and cripple the Paris agreement (which depended on buy-in from the wealthy nations to push the developing ones along for the ride). By the time we have a chance to throw him out in 2020, the next president would have to start the regulatory process from scratch again, there'd be no meaningful reductions for a decade or more, and we're fucked.
In related news, my wife and I aren't planning to have kids anymore.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 5:02 AM on November 10, 2016 [20 favorites]
Goodbye Blue Monday! Hello Blue Everything!
I moved back from the UK to southern Indiana in September. Ugh, Indiana, but that's where my support system is, and where my parents were willing to put me up while I find my feet again. I am amazingly privileged to even have that as an option. I am heartbroken to return to a country that elected Trump. I should have done more.
Once (if?) I have a full-time job again, I'll be making regular donations to the ACLU, Planned Parenthood, etc. I will find a way to start helping with my free time now (I've started with walking shelter dogs, because they've done nothing wrong).
But I watched Brexit happen in the UK and now this here and it is hard not to despair. The sale of my house in the UK is completing tomorrow and I think? I'm OK with it. I guess that was the right decision?
posted by minsies at 5:02 AM on November 10, 2016 [9 favorites]
I moved back from the UK to southern Indiana in September. Ugh, Indiana, but that's where my support system is, and where my parents were willing to put me up while I find my feet again. I am amazingly privileged to even have that as an option. I am heartbroken to return to a country that elected Trump. I should have done more.
Once (if?) I have a full-time job again, I'll be making regular donations to the ACLU, Planned Parenthood, etc. I will find a way to start helping with my free time now (I've started with walking shelter dogs, because they've done nothing wrong).
But I watched Brexit happen in the UK and now this here and it is hard not to despair. The sale of my house in the UK is completing tomorrow and I think? I'm OK with it. I guess that was the right decision?
posted by minsies at 5:02 AM on November 10, 2016 [9 favorites]
. If anything it will cause them to vote for the other side out anger.
If someones reaction to being called a racist is to vote for the racist thats not on anybody but them. If you voted for Trump you voted for an outspoken racist who has literally threatened to deport people. Who mocks disabled people. Whose campaign deliberately uses anti-Semitic codewords.
I mean, I literally just Googled Godwin's law and the word Trump pops up as a suggestion.
posted by threetwentytwo at 5:07 AM on November 10, 2016 [60 favorites]
If someones reaction to being called a racist is to vote for the racist thats not on anybody but them. If you voted for Trump you voted for an outspoken racist who has literally threatened to deport people. Who mocks disabled people. Whose campaign deliberately uses anti-Semitic codewords.
I mean, I literally just Googled Godwin's law and the word Trump pops up as a suggestion.
posted by threetwentytwo at 5:07 AM on November 10, 2016 [60 favorites]
Shut down the U.S. bases in your country. They represent your subservience to Donald Trump. Close them.
No need to: the ones in Europe, Trump will probably close shortly after a summit with Putin (perhaps, for the sake of historical resonance, in Yalta). Shortly after that, courier services will start delivering Russian passports to Russian speakers in the Baltic states, and RT.com starts running stories about atrocities committed against Russians by the countries' homo-fascist governments; the Little Green Men will follow in quick succession, and by the time the world knows what has happened, the White House is one of the first nations to recognise Russia's sovereignty over what used to be Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia. Meanwhile, Poland announces the immediate conscription of all able-bodied men.
posted by acb at 5:07 AM on November 10, 2016 [27 favorites]
No need to: the ones in Europe, Trump will probably close shortly after a summit with Putin (perhaps, for the sake of historical resonance, in Yalta). Shortly after that, courier services will start delivering Russian passports to Russian speakers in the Baltic states, and RT.com starts running stories about atrocities committed against Russians by the countries' homo-fascist governments; the Little Green Men will follow in quick succession, and by the time the world knows what has happened, the White House is one of the first nations to recognise Russia's sovereignty over what used to be Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia. Meanwhile, Poland announces the immediate conscription of all able-bodied men.
posted by acb at 5:07 AM on November 10, 2016 [27 favorites]
I'm really worried for the Baltic nations
Side note: after doing their best during the Soviet era to commit cultural genocide in the Baltics, just the other year the ethnic Russian interlopers in Latvia narrowly lost a plebiscite to declare Russian an equal state language alongside Latvian.
The goal there was that because Latvia is part of the EU, all those European common market goods with ingredients & instructions etc in every single European language would have to add the Russian language.
So, good for Russia in terms of the ease of use of consumer goods, bad for a country of only a couple of million people, desperately clinging to their cultural identity.
The Kaliningrad enclave probably isn't as big a strategic / military issue as some may think. What is more likely is that ethnic tensions will rise as the Balts become more fearful & nationalistic, possibly prompting Russia to protect its ethically Russian people in theSudetenland Baltic states...but maybe with more of a view towards easier access to the European market than a purely military strategic goal...?
Probably heading more towards disharmony than harmony. Interesting times.
posted by UbuRoivas at 5:08 AM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
Side note: after doing their best during the Soviet era to commit cultural genocide in the Baltics, just the other year the ethnic Russian interlopers in Latvia narrowly lost a plebiscite to declare Russian an equal state language alongside Latvian.
The goal there was that because Latvia is part of the EU, all those European common market goods with ingredients & instructions etc in every single European language would have to add the Russian language.
So, good for Russia in terms of the ease of use of consumer goods, bad for a country of only a couple of million people, desperately clinging to their cultural identity.
The Kaliningrad enclave probably isn't as big a strategic / military issue as some may think. What is more likely is that ethnic tensions will rise as the Balts become more fearful & nationalistic, possibly prompting Russia to protect its ethically Russian people in the
Probably heading more towards disharmony than harmony. Interesting times.
posted by UbuRoivas at 5:08 AM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
If she was helpless to shape the social and media forces arranged against her, she should have recognized that before she decided to run for President, and not run for President.
lol, women, your failure is your fault for trying despite the existence of misogyny!!!!1
lol, black people, your failure is your fault for trying despite the existence of racism!!!!
lol, gays, your failure is your fault for trying despite the existence of homophobia!!!1
the people in my life and online who have been playing the I-told-you-so game are the same ones who propped up Wikileaks and emails and conspiratorial BS about her up until Election Day.
I don't think it's very brave to spend the entire election season doing one's best to prop up the worst conspiracy beliefs about her and then claim she was at fault for being the subject of conspiracy theories.
posted by Anonymous at 5:08 AM on November 10, 2016
lol, women, your failure is your fault for trying despite the existence of misogyny!!!!1
lol, black people, your failure is your fault for trying despite the existence of racism!!!!
lol, gays, your failure is your fault for trying despite the existence of homophobia!!!1
the people in my life and online who have been playing the I-told-you-so game are the same ones who propped up Wikileaks and emails and conspiratorial BS about her up until Election Day.
I don't think it's very brave to spend the entire election season doing one's best to prop up the worst conspiracy beliefs about her and then claim she was at fault for being the subject of conspiracy theories.
posted by Anonymous at 5:08 AM on November 10, 2016
Wikileaks is not to blame for Clinton's abject failure.
posted by Coda Tronca at 5:10 AM on November 10, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by Coda Tronca at 5:10 AM on November 10, 2016 [9 favorites]
The sale of my house in the UK is completing tomorrow and I think? I'm OK with it. I guess that was the right decision?
Perfect timing for converting Pounds to USD.
posted by UbuRoivas at 5:10 AM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
Perfect timing for converting Pounds to USD.
posted by UbuRoivas at 5:10 AM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
The Kaliningrad enclave probably isn't as big a strategic / military issue as some may think.
Still, it must be an intolerable insult for a global power to be separated from its own territory in this way. Honour demands the correction of this slight!
posted by acb at 5:10 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
Still, it must be an intolerable insult for a global power to be separated from its own territory in this way. Honour demands the correction of this slight!
posted by acb at 5:10 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
I've been thinking and maybe the solution to climate change is getting Trump in on a scheme (it has to be a scheme) to cover every roof in North America with PVSolar. Let his greed work for the good of humanity.
posted by From Bklyn at 5:11 AM on November 10, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by From Bklyn at 5:11 AM on November 10, 2016 [8 favorites]
Wikileaks is not to blame for Clinton's abject failure.
Forgive, my sarcasm meter appears to be busted. I'm not getting what you're trying to say here.
posted by Mooski at 5:12 AM on November 10, 2016 [11 favorites]
Forgive, my sarcasm meter appears to be busted. I'm not getting what you're trying to say here.
posted by Mooski at 5:12 AM on November 10, 2016 [11 favorites]
Maybe you could place the solar panels in such a way that it spells TRUMP on each one.
posted by Static Vagabond at 5:12 AM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Static Vagabond at 5:12 AM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
The thing that is the most dis-spiriting about a Trump victory is that while past presidents may have had horrid policies, Trump seems like one of the few who is horrible person at their core.
posted by drezdn at 5:13 AM on November 10, 2016 [32 favorites]
posted by drezdn at 5:13 AM on November 10, 2016 [32 favorites]
Perfect timing for converting Pounds to USD.
Figuratively "rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic".
posted by Talez at 5:14 AM on November 10, 2016 [7 favorites]
Figuratively "rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic".
posted by Talez at 5:14 AM on November 10, 2016 [7 favorites]
Yesterday morning as my children arrived a teacher in their school was standing outside his classroom holding a sign that said "It's going to be all right."
I greatly admire the fact that this man on that morning possessed the clearness of mind and the compassion to think about what might make this a little easier for children who might be frightened and hurting, and I am grateful that he went into teaching.
There's a long road ahead and yes, bad things are going to happen, and disproportionately to the countless people who have been further marginalized by this election. But there are good, kind, proactive people working to make things better. Look for them, and help.
posted by Songdog at 5:15 AM on November 10, 2016 [33 favorites]
I greatly admire the fact that this man on that morning possessed the clearness of mind and the compassion to think about what might make this a little easier for children who might be frightened and hurting, and I am grateful that he went into teaching.
There's a long road ahead and yes, bad things are going to happen, and disproportionately to the countless people who have been further marginalized by this election. But there are good, kind, proactive people working to make things better. Look for them, and help.
posted by Songdog at 5:15 AM on November 10, 2016 [33 favorites]
Still, it must be an intolerable insult for a global power to be separated from its own territory in this way. Honour demands the correction of this slight!
Easy solution: build them a railway through no-man's-land, skirting the borders of the Baltics.
I'm sure the queues will stretch for days, for eager punters desperate to ride the Petersburg-Kaliningrad Express so they can warm themselves by the samovars of countrymen they have never met nor cared about before.
posted by UbuRoivas at 5:17 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
Easy solution: build them a railway through no-man's-land, skirting the borders of the Baltics.
I'm sure the queues will stretch for days, for eager punters desperate to ride the Petersburg-Kaliningrad Express so they can warm themselves by the samovars of countrymen they have never met nor cared about before.
posted by UbuRoivas at 5:17 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
Perfect timing for converting Pounds to USD.
This is, sadly, a thought I've had to have lately.
posted by Artw at 5:17 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
This is, sadly, a thought I've had to have lately.
posted by Artw at 5:17 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
Side note: after doing their best during the Soviet era to commit cultural genocide in the Baltics, just the other year the ethnic Russian interlopers in Latvia narrowly lost a plebiscite to declare Russian an equal state language alongside Latvian.
How loyal to Putin are the Latvian Russians? I read a while ago (in Der Spiegel, I believe) that the citizens of the (90% Russian-speaking) eastern-Estonian city of Narva are very much pro-European and have little time for Russian nationalism or visions of “Eurasian” autocratic traditions of governance. They like their rule of law, not being fleeced by mafias or oligarchs, and the general humanistic post-Enlightenment world view very much, and aren't in a hurry to trade it in.
posted by acb at 5:18 AM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
How loyal to Putin are the Latvian Russians? I read a while ago (in Der Spiegel, I believe) that the citizens of the (90% Russian-speaking) eastern-Estonian city of Narva are very much pro-European and have little time for Russian nationalism or visions of “Eurasian” autocratic traditions of governance. They like their rule of law, not being fleeced by mafias or oligarchs, and the general humanistic post-Enlightenment world view very much, and aren't in a hurry to trade it in.
posted by acb at 5:18 AM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
Coda Tronca, the failure was not abject, it was a narrow victory in terms of votes, and there's a good chance that without the allied forces of Russia, the FBI, and Wikileaks the ball could have bounced the other way, even accounting for inherent misogyny and discontent.
posted by Wrinkled Stumpskin at 5:18 AM on November 10, 2016 [39 favorites]
posted by Wrinkled Stumpskin at 5:18 AM on November 10, 2016 [39 favorites]
Yesterday morning as my children arrived a teacher in their school was standing outside his classroom holding a sign that said "It's going to be all right."
Or, in Italian, “La Vita e Bella”
posted by acb at 5:19 AM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
Or, in Italian, “La Vita e Bella”
posted by acb at 5:19 AM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
Are we doing the blame game yet?
posted by rhizome at 5:20 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by rhizome at 5:20 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
Easy solution: build them a railway through no-man's-land, skirting the borders of the Baltics.
Is there legally a no-man's land between, say, Lithuania and Poland that any other nation could legally build a railway through, including cutting through Polish-Lithuanian highways and railways to do so? I thought there was no such thing.
posted by acb at 5:21 AM on November 10, 2016
Is there legally a no-man's land between, say, Lithuania and Poland that any other nation could legally build a railway through, including cutting through Polish-Lithuanian highways and railways to do so? I thought there was no such thing.
posted by acb at 5:21 AM on November 10, 2016
Are we doing the blame game yet?
Yeah, but since a woman is involved, it's on Easy Mode and not nearly as much fun.
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:22 AM on November 10, 2016 [97 favorites]
Trump and Brexit: why it’s again NOT the economy, stupid
posted by Artw at 5:23 AM on November 10, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by Artw at 5:23 AM on November 10, 2016 [9 favorites]
Basically everyone who has been seething about her win since the primaries is now taking this opportunity to trot out all the shit one can easily refute via Snopes. "She's corrupt! Bernie would have won, 100%! Emails! EMAILS!"
Some of us know intimately how a woman who seeks to become a leader will inevitably become the subject of narratives that have less to do with the truth than with what our society thinks is true about women who seek leadership. Some of us were excited about her candidacy precisely because she'd been subject to this, and it captured our imagination that if one just worked hard enough and endured one could succeed despite it. That she lost to the personification of misogyny, and that she's now being blamed because peeler are claiming she took the spot that should have been a man's--well. I suppose those touting the latter argument area sending a message, but perhaps not the one they intend.
It would be appreciated if, if only for this thread, we could maybe step out from the background radiation of misogyny within our culture, you know?
posted by Anonymous at 5:24 AM on November 10, 2016
Some of us know intimately how a woman who seeks to become a leader will inevitably become the subject of narratives that have less to do with the truth than with what our society thinks is true about women who seek leadership. Some of us were excited about her candidacy precisely because she'd been subject to this, and it captured our imagination that if one just worked hard enough and endured one could succeed despite it. That she lost to the personification of misogyny, and that she's now being blamed because peeler are claiming she took the spot that should have been a man's--well. I suppose those touting the latter argument area sending a message, but perhaps not the one they intend.
It would be appreciated if, if only for this thread, we could maybe step out from the background radiation of misogyny within our culture, you know?
posted by Anonymous at 5:24 AM on November 10, 2016
I think I took it as a given that it is on the Democrats to be watchdogs as WELL as being hands off. Like, if the Republicans get it together long enough to enact a policy of any kind, then we stand up and say FUCK no, but otherwise we just sort of watch them run around like headless chickens all "but why isn't this working the way I thought it would what do I do".
See, I thought that way in the Dubya years. I was not impressed with what followed.
I am old, and cynical. I have every expectation that Chuck fucking Schumer will counsel that We Have To Keep Our Powder Dry, We Can Only Filibuster In Matters of Direst Import and They Have a Clear Mandate and We Must Respect That, and his threshold for "this is worth filibustering" will be a lot higher than most would suggest, despite rampant Republican obstruction being rewarded with more seats and more control.
And I think you will be surprised at what they now feel motivated to enact. The Republican mantra is simple: We believe that all government should be abolished _except for the highest level that we control_.
posted by delfin at 5:24 AM on November 10, 2016 [12 favorites]
See, I thought that way in the Dubya years. I was not impressed with what followed.
I am old, and cynical. I have every expectation that Chuck fucking Schumer will counsel that We Have To Keep Our Powder Dry, We Can Only Filibuster In Matters of Direst Import and They Have a Clear Mandate and We Must Respect That, and his threshold for "this is worth filibustering" will be a lot higher than most would suggest, despite rampant Republican obstruction being rewarded with more seats and more control.
And I think you will be surprised at what they now feel motivated to enact. The Republican mantra is simple: We believe that all government should be abolished _except for the highest level that we control_.
posted by delfin at 5:24 AM on November 10, 2016 [12 favorites]
the failure was not abject
Surely that's up for debate though, even here, and even though she's a woman.
Perhaps of interest at Naked Capitalism: "Let us not forget that Clinton had every advantage: Presidential campaign experience, the full backing of her party, a much bigger ground apparatus, oodles of experts and surrogates, the Mighty Wurlitzer of the media behind her, an opponent widely deemed to be world-class terrible – utterly unqualified, undisciplined, offensive, with a mother lode of scandals – and what historically was deemed the most important asset of all, a large lead in fundraising.
We have very little idea of what a Trump presidency will amount to. My best guess has been that he will be a Jimmy Carter cubed in Berlusconi packaging."
posted by Coda Tronca at 5:24 AM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
Surely that's up for debate though, even here, and even though she's a woman.
Perhaps of interest at Naked Capitalism: "Let us not forget that Clinton had every advantage: Presidential campaign experience, the full backing of her party, a much bigger ground apparatus, oodles of experts and surrogates, the Mighty Wurlitzer of the media behind her, an opponent widely deemed to be world-class terrible – utterly unqualified, undisciplined, offensive, with a mother lode of scandals – and what historically was deemed the most important asset of all, a large lead in fundraising.
We have very little idea of what a Trump presidency will amount to. My best guess has been that he will be a Jimmy Carter cubed in Berlusconi packaging."
posted by Coda Tronca at 5:24 AM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
Also do not make the mistake that Trump is the only problem. Trump is the front man for the problem but he has lots and lots of company in Congress, in Governorships, in state legislatures, in school boards, in local leadership and they all feel like now it's their turn to Set The World Right.
We're all in Brownback's Kansas now.
posted by delfin at 5:29 AM on November 10, 2016 [29 favorites]
We're all in Brownback's Kansas now.
posted by delfin at 5:29 AM on November 10, 2016 [29 favorites]
Surely that's up for debate though, even here, and even though she's a woman.
What is up for debate is whether a little less than half the voting public cast their vote for a narcissistic racist misogynist homophobe who's broken everything he's touched rather than Clinton because she's a woman.
I mean, I tend to assume it's because they're ignorant racists, but misogyny is right up there.
posted by Mooski at 5:30 AM on November 10, 2016 [21 favorites]
What is up for debate is whether a little less than half the voting public cast their vote for a narcissistic racist misogynist homophobe who's broken everything he's touched rather than Clinton because she's a woman.
I mean, I tend to assume it's because they're ignorant racists, but misogyny is right up there.
posted by Mooski at 5:30 AM on November 10, 2016 [21 favorites]
How loyal to Putin are the Latvian Russians?
Loyalty to Putin I cannot comment on, but any ethnic Russians in the Baltic states could be considered akin to around 50% of Israel being populated by Germans who refuse to give up Weisswurst und die Deutsche Sprache.
They have arguably better opportunities there, but are neither liked nor welcome. It's like being forced to live with the child of your rapist.
They presumably prefer being part of Europe, but if & when ethnic tensions increase then I guess they'd see Mother Russia as their saviours...?
posted by UbuRoivas at 5:30 AM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
Loyalty to Putin I cannot comment on, but any ethnic Russians in the Baltic states could be considered akin to around 50% of Israel being populated by Germans who refuse to give up Weisswurst und die Deutsche Sprache.
They have arguably better opportunities there, but are neither liked nor welcome. It's like being forced to live with the child of your rapist.
They presumably prefer being part of Europe, but if & when ethnic tensions increase then I guess they'd see Mother Russia as their saviours...?
posted by UbuRoivas at 5:30 AM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
Is there legally a no-man's land between, say, Lithuania and Poland that any other nation could legally build a railway through, including cutting through Polish-Lithuanian highways and railways to do so? I thought there was no such thing.
Pah, forget the railways. It can be ekranoplans all the way. Hover a few yards above all obstacles.
posted by UbuRoivas at 5:35 AM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
Pah, forget the railways. It can be ekranoplans all the way. Hover a few yards above all obstacles.
posted by UbuRoivas at 5:35 AM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
This is fine.
posted by tommasz at 5:36 AM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by tommasz at 5:36 AM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
So is the Democratic establishment going to have a come to Jesus moment and accept that their support of free trade is probably the biggest reason Trump won? Seriously, all you have to do is compare the 2012 path to victory map to the 2016 path to victory map to understand that there is nothing keeping Democrats from soundly defeating Trump in 4 years other than their support for perhaps the most unpopular economic policy in my lifetime, free trade. Everyone except banksters, lobbyist, and politicians hate it, and Democrats support for it is a giant weight around the neck of the entire progressive agenda.
posted by Beholder at 5:37 AM on November 10, 2016 [13 favorites]
posted by Beholder at 5:37 AM on November 10, 2016 [13 favorites]
Moscow had contacts with Trump team during campaign, Russian diplomat says
posted by bluecore at 5:37 AM on November 10, 2016 [20 favorites]
posted by bluecore at 5:37 AM on November 10, 2016 [20 favorites]
9% of registered Democrats voted for Trump.
And I imagine all of them told pollsters they weren't.
posted by corb at 5:39 AM on November 10, 2016 [13 favorites]
And I imagine all of them told pollsters they weren't.
posted by corb at 5:39 AM on November 10, 2016 [13 favorites]
For those who are interested in upping your infosec game, I'm starting to write a bit about that here. I'm not an expert but I've been taught by people who are and I hope I can give a few good pointers.
(Sorry about the crossposting.)
posted by Too-Ticky at 5:39 AM on November 10, 2016 [7 favorites]
(Sorry about the crossposting.)
posted by Too-Ticky at 5:39 AM on November 10, 2016 [7 favorites]
mediareport: I remember Reagan. There were times when every day brought a fresh new horror show of ignorance, incompetence and lies. The next year will be like that.
But with more support for white supremicits, general racists, homophobes and xenophobes, right? Some called Reagan the most anti-woman president of the 20th century, and Ronald "a tree is a tree, how many more do you need to look at?" Reagan is remembered for appointing two of the most intensely controversial and blatantly anti-environmental political appointees, so Donny can stand on the shoulder of that giant shitbeast for those issues.
Which is to say, the country survived, but was worse for it.
posted by filthy light thief at 5:39 AM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
But with more support for white supremicits, general racists, homophobes and xenophobes, right? Some called Reagan the most anti-woman president of the 20th century, and Ronald "a tree is a tree, how many more do you need to look at?" Reagan is remembered for appointing two of the most intensely controversial and blatantly anti-environmental political appointees, so Donny can stand on the shoulder of that giant shitbeast for those issues.
Which is to say, the country survived, but was worse for it.
posted by filthy light thief at 5:39 AM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
We can't afford to lose anyone in our coalition.
This is very important, and encouraging coalition is a goal that all Democrats and allies struggle with, often mightily.
There are no easy answers to that problem sadly.
Personally, I'm redoubling my efforts to make sure I am fairly describing the views of my allies, so that I do not misread reasonable disagreement as unwarranted attack. I'm also trying find productive ways to engage when my allies misread my own reasonable disagreement, though I'm finding that much harder to do.
posted by audi alteram partem at 5:40 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
This is very important, and encouraging coalition is a goal that all Democrats and allies struggle with, often mightily.
There are no easy answers to that problem sadly.
Personally, I'm redoubling my efforts to make sure I am fairly describing the views of my allies, so that I do not misread reasonable disagreement as unwarranted attack. I'm also trying find productive ways to engage when my allies misread my own reasonable disagreement, though I'm finding that much harder to do.
posted by audi alteram partem at 5:40 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
I've been struggling to write anything for almost a year now, at least in part due to anxiety over the election and what the mere existence of Trump was doing to people. Now I've heard from separate sources of at least four trans people that they knew personally having committed suicide, in at least one case with harassment specifying Trump's election.
I have composed a new drabble to express my feelings. I have titled it Justice for All
Apparently being too angry to walk or talk without clenching fists and jaw is a more creative mood than panicky free-floating anxiety.
posted by Scattercat at 5:40 AM on November 10, 2016 [7 favorites]
I have composed a new drabble to express my feelings. I have titled it Justice for All
Apparently being too angry to walk or talk without clenching fists and jaw is a more creative mood than panicky free-floating anxiety.
posted by Scattercat at 5:40 AM on November 10, 2016 [7 favorites]
I understand all the "Hillary made it so close - yay!" feelings but I cannot get past their deliberate strategy of pushing Trump via the media in the primaries to encourage the GOP to select him.
The Clintons and the DNC helped elect the most despicable candidate in American history.
I am beyond grief at this point. We are in for a rude change and it's going to hurt.
I also cannot get past the fact that the 1/5 rule is potentially biting us in reverse - only about 20% of the eligible 230 million voters ended up voting.
posted by glaucon at 5:40 AM on November 10, 2016 [12 favorites]
The Clintons and the DNC helped elect the most despicable candidate in American history.
I am beyond grief at this point. We are in for a rude change and it's going to hurt.
I also cannot get past the fact that the 1/5 rule is potentially biting us in reverse - only about 20% of the eligible 230 million voters ended up voting.
posted by glaucon at 5:40 AM on November 10, 2016 [12 favorites]
Are we doing the blame game yet?
That's the thing where the people who did something bad deflect attention by calling it "the blame game", right?
posted by thelonius at 5:41 AM on November 10, 2016 [20 favorites]
That's the thing where the people who did something bad deflect attention by calling it "the blame game", right?
posted by thelonius at 5:41 AM on November 10, 2016 [20 favorites]
There are enough minor scandals involving Clintons that Republicans could take about them forever, so no idea if the wikileaks emails played any role. And there are many reasons why wikileaks releasing early benifits everyone.
I think the FBI investigation and Comey's reports sound more official, making them harder to ignore. And I hope the FBI pays for that big time.
Yet, all these influences were likely dwarfed by the Clinton campaign's own Pied Piper strategy of asking their media friends to give Trump free media attention during the primaries though, Wrinkled Stumpskin, which gave him momentum for the general election.
We'd have witnessed a very different campaign had Trump needed to raise money money for television ads both during the primaries and during the general.
Yes, there are good odds Clinton's campaign might've faced an army of religious conservatives backing Ted Cruz, but they might've scared off many who voted for Trump, and Cruz cannot play the trade card against her so easily.
posted by jeffburdges at 5:41 AM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
I think the FBI investigation and Comey's reports sound more official, making them harder to ignore. And I hope the FBI pays for that big time.
Yet, all these influences were likely dwarfed by the Clinton campaign's own Pied Piper strategy of asking their media friends to give Trump free media attention during the primaries though, Wrinkled Stumpskin, which gave him momentum for the general election.
We'd have witnessed a very different campaign had Trump needed to raise money money for television ads both during the primaries and during the general.
Yes, there are good odds Clinton's campaign might've faced an army of religious conservatives backing Ted Cruz, but they might've scared off many who voted for Trump, and Cruz cannot play the trade card against her so easily.
posted by jeffburdges at 5:41 AM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
You know who else helped get Trump elected? People who didn't vote for any presidential candidate or a third party and people who discouraged others from doing so. I'm gathering from these threads and all the new Hillary Evil Technocrat posts, and the assorted look how many less Dems voted for her than Obama, as well as a few direct mentions of skipping the choice, that includes a number of people here. So maybe not throwing stones would be wise.
posted by gusottertrout at 5:45 AM on November 10, 2016 [34 favorites]
posted by gusottertrout at 5:45 AM on November 10, 2016 [34 favorites]
Myron Ebell is the EPA transition team leader.
♫ They paved paradise and put up a parking lot. ♩♪
posted by Talez at 5:46 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
♫ They paved paradise and put up a parking lot. ♩♪
posted by Talez at 5:46 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
From a local SA journo ouside the WH on election night.
@carienduplessis: Pro-Trump women said he really cares about them. They know that because he ran for president but doesn't need the money
posted by PenDevil at 5:49 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
@carienduplessis: Pro-Trump women said he really cares about them. They know that because he ran for president but doesn't need the money
posted by PenDevil at 5:49 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
This all drives me a little nuts really. The Republicans run on a platform of prideful ignorance, while the Democrats run as the clever know-it-alls, yet election after election, those embracing ignorance out smart the know-it-alls who end up fighting among themselves to see what or who they should sacrifice next.
posted by gusottertrout at 5:49 AM on November 10, 2016 [14 favorites]
posted by gusottertrout at 5:49 AM on November 10, 2016 [14 favorites]
There was an opportunity this year to bury the Republicans and Democrats for good. Bernie and Bloomberg could have ran their own independent campaigns and Trump/Cinton would have been relegated to 3rd and 4th choices. Both were cowed by the Democratic party and the Clintons. These two parties are done, neither represents the true will of the people anymore. Democrats are beholden to big finance, Republicans big business. Trump won because he bashed the Republican party. Fuck all of you who demonized Ralph Nader in the years 2000, it's kept every viable 3rd choice away from running since. If you are not willing to give up a generation to create true democracy in this country you deserve fascism.
posted by any major dude at 5:49 AM on November 10, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by any major dude at 5:49 AM on November 10, 2016 [8 favorites]
So is the Democratic establishment going to have a come to Jesus moment and accept that their support of free trade is probably the biggest reason Trump won?
Let's hope they don't come to think that, since every person with a functioning ability to reason sees that free trade is necessary for the growth of the world. Their support of free trade is "probably the biggest reason Trump won" in the same way that their support of civil rights for non-whites is "probably the biggest reason Trump won", and we should not throw decency under the bus in order to appeal to a small, selfish, and shrinking demographic that didn't even turn the election in the first place, since the actual reason Trump won is that a lot of people didn't get their voices heard.
The degree of voter disenfranchisement--very intentional and targeted voter disenfranchisement, at that--makes the election illegitimate. Donald Trump did not win a damn thing.
If no legal remedy can be had, then we need to do it the other way. For the second time in my not-very-long life, the Republicans have stolen an election that was rightfully won by a Democrat, and this time they look to do even more harm. They are not actors in good faith. They have proven that they have no interest in democracy, and so we must remove them from the system.
posted by IAmUnaware at 5:50 AM on November 10, 2016 [17 favorites]
Let's hope they don't come to think that, since every person with a functioning ability to reason sees that free trade is necessary for the growth of the world. Their support of free trade is "probably the biggest reason Trump won" in the same way that their support of civil rights for non-whites is "probably the biggest reason Trump won", and we should not throw decency under the bus in order to appeal to a small, selfish, and shrinking demographic that didn't even turn the election in the first place, since the actual reason Trump won is that a lot of people didn't get their voices heard.
The degree of voter disenfranchisement--very intentional and targeted voter disenfranchisement, at that--makes the election illegitimate. Donald Trump did not win a damn thing.
If no legal remedy can be had, then we need to do it the other way. For the second time in my not-very-long life, the Republicans have stolen an election that was rightfully won by a Democrat, and this time they look to do even more harm. They are not actors in good faith. They have proven that they have no interest in democracy, and so we must remove them from the system.
posted by IAmUnaware at 5:50 AM on November 10, 2016 [17 favorites]
Election about Hillary losing: From what I saw Bernie would have beaten Trump & Obama could have been elected to 3rd term
Thinking about alternate universes is just not useful. Would Sanders have won? Ehhhhh... imagine the functional part of the primary season had drawn out, probably become pretty negative as things flipped, and gone narrowly for Sanders in the end. Yeah, he probably would have had more success with white exurban voters in WI/MI/PA. But he also would have been a Democratic candidate that had been hugely, overwhelmingly rejected by black Democratic voters, and it's reasonable to think that black turnout would have been lower for him than it was for Clinton. Does he win PA, MI, WI with lower turnout in Philly/Pittsburgh/Detroit/Milwaukee?
This was a bad primary cycle that pitted core elements of the Democratic coalition against each other and one group or another was always likely to have depressed turnout as a result.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 5:51 AM on November 10, 2016 [28 favorites]
Thinking about alternate universes is just not useful. Would Sanders have won? Ehhhhh... imagine the functional part of the primary season had drawn out, probably become pretty negative as things flipped, and gone narrowly for Sanders in the end. Yeah, he probably would have had more success with white exurban voters in WI/MI/PA. But he also would have been a Democratic candidate that had been hugely, overwhelmingly rejected by black Democratic voters, and it's reasonable to think that black turnout would have been lower for him than it was for Clinton. Does he win PA, MI, WI with lower turnout in Philly/Pittsburgh/Detroit/Milwaukee?
This was a bad primary cycle that pitted core elements of the Democratic coalition against each other and one group or another was always likely to have depressed turnout as a result.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 5:51 AM on November 10, 2016 [28 favorites]
So is the Democratic establishment going to have a come to Jesus moment and accept that their support of free trade is probably the biggest reason Trump won? Seriously, all you have to do is compare the 2012 path to victory map to the 2016 path to victory map to understand that there is nothing keeping Democrats from soundly defeating Trump in 4 years other than their support for perhaps the most unpopular economic policy in my lifetime, free trade. Everyone except banksters, lobbyist, and politicians hate it, and Democrats support for it is a giant weight around the neck of the entire progressive agenda.
Hillary expressed plenty of skepticism about free trade, just less than Trump. There was a sense that she was lying (I don't think she was), but she definitely did not express unconditional support for free trade. Plus, the American people generally recognize some important benefits (to them) of free trade (it's one poll so take it for what it's worth). I think that's right, too, because I suspect if you said to Americans "there are more manufacturing jobs in Michigan*, but now shirts costs $75," they'd not take that deal. Here, it just happened that the states that wound up mattering were ones for whom the trade message resonated**; I don't think it resonated with Americans generally.
*I also think that limiting free trade is not bringing back manufacturing jobs to Michigan, except maybe if we're lucky for a few people who program the robots.
**We're assuming. I think it's too early to say what precisely motivated the Trump votes in the Rust Belt.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 5:51 AM on November 10, 2016 [7 favorites]
Hillary expressed plenty of skepticism about free trade, just less than Trump. There was a sense that she was lying (I don't think she was), but she definitely did not express unconditional support for free trade. Plus, the American people generally recognize some important benefits (to them) of free trade (it's one poll so take it for what it's worth). I think that's right, too, because I suspect if you said to Americans "there are more manufacturing jobs in Michigan*, but now shirts costs $75," they'd not take that deal. Here, it just happened that the states that wound up mattering were ones for whom the trade message resonated**; I don't think it resonated with Americans generally.
*I also think that limiting free trade is not bringing back manufacturing jobs to Michigan, except maybe if we're lucky for a few people who program the robots.
**We're assuming. I think it's too early to say what precisely motivated the Trump votes in the Rust Belt.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 5:51 AM on November 10, 2016 [7 favorites]
My paternal grandfather got out of Poland before it got bad in the 30's. There's family history of not waiting around until it's too late.
At the end of the day, more than half the voters want Trump's brand of hate and misogyny. I'm less worried about what HE will do, rather than what his emboldened supporters will. As in, "I am now worried driving down I-95 while Jewish, in case I run into someone who doesn't like Jews".
And I'm worried that after they get tired of lynching Journalists, Muslims, and Gays, my family and I are next.
So, we're preparing to make Aliyah, just in case we have to get out of the US quickly.
posted by mikelieman at 5:52 AM on November 10, 2016 [12 favorites]
At the end of the day, more than half the voters want Trump's brand of hate and misogyny. I'm less worried about what HE will do, rather than what his emboldened supporters will. As in, "I am now worried driving down I-95 while Jewish, in case I run into someone who doesn't like Jews".
And I'm worried that after they get tired of lynching Journalists, Muslims, and Gays, my family and I are next.
So, we're preparing to make Aliyah, just in case we have to get out of the US quickly.
posted by mikelieman at 5:52 AM on November 10, 2016 [12 favorites]
There was an opportunity this year to bury the Republicans and Democrats for good. Bernie and Bloomberg could have ran their own independent campaigns and Trump/Cinton would have been relegated to 3rd and 4th choices.
This is complete fantasy. Let's be very clear on that.
If George Clooney, Donald Duck and Ronald McDonald had run, they'da all won as well.
posted by threetwentytwo at 5:54 AM on November 10, 2016 [35 favorites]
This is complete fantasy. Let's be very clear on that.
If George Clooney, Donald Duck and Ronald McDonald had run, they'da all won as well.
posted by threetwentytwo at 5:54 AM on November 10, 2016 [35 favorites]
Most Americans know virtually nothing about trade deals. Just like they know little about most other complex areas of government and don't tend to vote on those things, they vote on the package the salespeople wrap it in.
posted by gusottertrout at 5:54 AM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by gusottertrout at 5:54 AM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
I think we should focus on blaming the fascists who elected a fascist, not the people who tried to stop him.
posted by EarBucket at 5:55 AM on November 10, 2016 [108 favorites]
posted by EarBucket at 5:55 AM on November 10, 2016 [108 favorites]
So is the Democratic establishment going to have a come to Jesus moment and accept that their support of free trade is probably the biggest reason Trump won?
Everything I've read about NAFTA was that it brought more jobs to the US. Hillary not correcting that and in essence running away from that accusation allowed it to stick. I really think her dumbest move was her impassioned defense of abortion during the debate. Why the fuck would you not skate past the biggest hot button that drove Republicans to the polls in the Bush years?
posted by any major dude at 5:55 AM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
Everything I've read about NAFTA was that it brought more jobs to the US. Hillary not correcting that and in essence running away from that accusation allowed it to stick. I really think her dumbest move was her impassioned defense of abortion during the debate. Why the fuck would you not skate past the biggest hot button that drove Republicans to the polls in the Bush years?
posted by any major dude at 5:55 AM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
Pennsylvania had 5 state-wide races on Tuesday, and male Democrats won three of them (Attorney General, Auditor General, and State Treasurer), while female Democrats lost two of them (Senator and President). Must be a coincidence.
posted by muddgirl at 5:56 AM on November 10, 2016 [30 favorites]
posted by muddgirl at 5:56 AM on November 10, 2016 [30 favorites]
Everything I've read about NAFTA was that it brought more jobs to the US.
Not only that, but lowered prices for consumers and made the entire country more productive.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 5:57 AM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
Not only that, but lowered prices for consumers and made the entire country more productive.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 5:57 AM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
If Hillary had won the list of losers would have been:
* Very rich white men, who will have to pay in a tiny bit more they won't even notice
Who loses now:
*Women. All women. Their rights will be degraded, their access to healthcare will be removed, their voices will be silenced. I'm sad. Some of my best friends are women.
*Sikhs.
*Muslims
*Hindus
*Non-white people
*LGBTQDGU* people. Ok, simpler. Anyone who is not a white, male, dick-swinging, square-jawed Proper American
*Latinx
*Anyone who ever needs healthcare
*Those who have ability deficits
*Chronically ill people
*Dugongs in Moreton Bay
*3.9 billion people who live in areas that will be flooded because the US doesn't cut back its CO2 emissions. Seriously - 50% of global CO2 emissions are the fault of the US.
I mention the dugongs because they rely on a complex web of environmental interactions that seriously depend on less agricultural waste runoff and less climate change. Which way do you think those are going to trend now? This disaster has a long reach.
For the last three hours I have tried to think of a good thing.
Can't see one.
posted by Combat Wombat at 5:58 AM on November 10, 2016 [51 favorites]
* Very rich white men, who will have to pay in a tiny bit more they won't even notice
Who loses now:
*Women. All women. Their rights will be degraded, their access to healthcare will be removed, their voices will be silenced. I'm sad. Some of my best friends are women.
*Sikhs.
*Muslims
*Hindus
*Non-white people
*LGBTQDGU* people. Ok, simpler. Anyone who is not a white, male, dick-swinging, square-jawed Proper American
*Latinx
*Anyone who ever needs healthcare
*Those who have ability deficits
*Chronically ill people
*Dugongs in Moreton Bay
*3.9 billion people who live in areas that will be flooded because the US doesn't cut back its CO2 emissions. Seriously - 50% of global CO2 emissions are the fault of the US.
I mention the dugongs because they rely on a complex web of environmental interactions that seriously depend on less agricultural waste runoff and less climate change. Which way do you think those are going to trend now? This disaster has a long reach.
For the last three hours I have tried to think of a good thing.
Can't see one.
posted by Combat Wombat at 5:58 AM on November 10, 2016 [51 favorites]
Loyalty to Putin I cannot comment on, but any ethnic Russians in the Baltic states could be considered akin to around 50% of Israel being populated by Germans who refuse to give up Weisswurst und die Deutsche Sprache. They have arguably better opportunities there, but are neither liked nor welcome. It's like being forced to live with the child of your rapist.
That's one (nationalist-essentialist) way of looking at it; another could be “Well, they're here, they speak Russian but embrace democracy, human rights and pluralism; proof that Another Russia Is Possible”
They used to say that the Germans will never take to democracy either, because they, at a fundamental cultural level, need to be regimented and have strong leaders. That essentialist certainty fell (1968 and 1989 were two inflection points), and perhaps the equation of Russia with Byzantine caesaropapist autocracy will some day as well.
posted by acb at 5:59 AM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
That's one (nationalist-essentialist) way of looking at it; another could be “Well, they're here, they speak Russian but embrace democracy, human rights and pluralism; proof that Another Russia Is Possible”
They used to say that the Germans will never take to democracy either, because they, at a fundamental cultural level, need to be regimented and have strong leaders. That essentialist certainty fell (1968 and 1989 were two inflection points), and perhaps the equation of Russia with Byzantine caesaropapist autocracy will some day as well.
posted by acb at 5:59 AM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
Why the fuck would you not skate past the biggest hot button that drove Republicans to the polls in the Bush years?
Oh I dunno. Cos she's got principles. Because Roe v Wade. Because Supreme Court. Because Planned Parenthood. Because Wendy Davis. Because hopeful young women.
Anyone thick enough to think Donald Trump gives two fucks about abortion wasn't going to vote Clinton anyway.
posted by threetwentytwo at 6:00 AM on November 10, 2016 [42 favorites]
Oh I dunno. Cos she's got principles. Because Roe v Wade. Because Supreme Court. Because Planned Parenthood. Because Wendy Davis. Because hopeful young women.
Anyone thick enough to think Donald Trump gives two fucks about abortion wasn't going to vote Clinton anyway.
posted by threetwentytwo at 6:00 AM on November 10, 2016 [42 favorites]
With all the handwringing and fingerpointing going on, few people, especially in the media, are pointing out that all those voter suppression schemes worked exactly as intended in this election.
posted by TedW at 6:02 AM on November 10, 2016 [38 favorites]
posted by TedW at 6:02 AM on November 10, 2016 [38 favorites]
And I'm worried that after they get tired of lynching Journalists, Muslims, and Gays, my family and I are next.
Obligatory:
First they came for the Journalists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Journalist.
Then they came for the Gay Islamists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Gay Islamist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
wait.
posted by UbuRoivas at 6:03 AM on November 10, 2016 [11 favorites]
Obligatory:
First they came for the Journalists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Journalist.
Then they came for the Gay Islamists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Gay Islamist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
wait.
posted by UbuRoivas at 6:03 AM on November 10, 2016 [11 favorites]
Which is to say, the country survived, but was worse for it.
This. We are not watching The End Of America As A Nation, we are watching America returning to one of its baseline positions. We on the left do our best to lift it up to a higher place, and the crabs pull it back down into the bucket whenever we are within reach.
Ever seen a situation where a bully - bullied relationship gets reversed and now the bullied has the power? Sometimes they react well, and try to change things so that tensions are lessened. Sometimes they go "NOW IT'S _MY_ TURN" and are just as bad in the other direction.
There are some wingnuts who have spent the Obama years preaching GOD IS THE ONLY AUTHORITY, YOU MUST RESIST LIBERAL EVIL IN HIS NAME. They are a minority. But the louder chorus from right-wing media is simpler and more widely received: You, the conservatives of America, are being BULLIED. It is your rightful place to lead this nation and have good jobs and live your lives your way, but the oddballs -- the eggheads, the liberals, the blacks, the feminists, the immigrants, the sexual deviants -- they are BULLYING YOU by forcing social change upon you. They are bullying you into baking cakes and bullying you into watching your tax dollars go to help the needy and they are bullying you by declaring war on Christmas. Aren't you angry? Aren't you hurt? Aren't you ready to fight back?
And now they're back in the driver's seat. And many of them will respond predictably, and we all get to watch. And maybe try to shield the most vulnerable when we can.
posted by delfin at 6:04 AM on November 10, 2016 [13 favorites]
This. We are not watching The End Of America As A Nation, we are watching America returning to one of its baseline positions. We on the left do our best to lift it up to a higher place, and the crabs pull it back down into the bucket whenever we are within reach.
Ever seen a situation where a bully - bullied relationship gets reversed and now the bullied has the power? Sometimes they react well, and try to change things so that tensions are lessened. Sometimes they go "NOW IT'S _MY_ TURN" and are just as bad in the other direction.
There are some wingnuts who have spent the Obama years preaching GOD IS THE ONLY AUTHORITY, YOU MUST RESIST LIBERAL EVIL IN HIS NAME. They are a minority. But the louder chorus from right-wing media is simpler and more widely received: You, the conservatives of America, are being BULLIED. It is your rightful place to lead this nation and have good jobs and live your lives your way, but the oddballs -- the eggheads, the liberals, the blacks, the feminists, the immigrants, the sexual deviants -- they are BULLYING YOU by forcing social change upon you. They are bullying you into baking cakes and bullying you into watching your tax dollars go to help the needy and they are bullying you by declaring war on Christmas. Aren't you angry? Aren't you hurt? Aren't you ready to fight back?
And now they're back in the driver's seat. And many of them will respond predictably, and we all get to watch. And maybe try to shield the most vulnerable when we can.
posted by delfin at 6:04 AM on November 10, 2016 [13 favorites]
Oh I dunno. Cos she's got principles. Because Roe v Wade. Because Supreme Court. Because Planned Parenthood. Because Wendy Davis. Because hopeful young women.
Anyone thick enough to think Donald Trump gives two fucks about abortion wasn't going to vote Clinton anyway.
One problem, Democrats don't get off the couch to vote FOR abortion as an issue, Republicans do - in droves. Anyone inspired by that already had her vote. Just another stupid miscalculation no doubt emboldened by the bullshit Nate Silver polls.
posted by any major dude at 6:04 AM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
Anyone thick enough to think Donald Trump gives two fucks about abortion wasn't going to vote Clinton anyway.
One problem, Democrats don't get off the couch to vote FOR abortion as an issue, Republicans do - in droves. Anyone inspired by that already had her vote. Just another stupid miscalculation no doubt emboldened by the bullshit Nate Silver polls.
posted by any major dude at 6:04 AM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
Republicans' Senate Tactics Leave Trump Wide Sway Over Nation's Courts
...In the short run, Trump will have more than 100 other judicial nominations to make to the lower federal courts. There are 103 judicial vacancies on the federal trial and appellate courts, or roughly an eighth of the entire federal judiciary. There are 59 pending Obama nominations to fill a majority of those seats, but Republicans have been artful about slow-walking these Obama lower court appointments, and the Republican Senate has confirmed only 11 judges since the beginning of the year. Now all of those pending appointments will die.posted by p3t3 at 6:06 AM on November 10, 2016 [13 favorites]
Nate Silver isn't a pollster.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:07 AM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:07 AM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
Is there any chance the electoral college will turn faithless in Dec?
posted by slipthought at 6:08 AM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by slipthought at 6:08 AM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
But there are also other things going on here with her, specifically, as a candidate that we need to evaluate in order to move on and select better candidates.
Let's be clear: Clinton, like all humans and any politician who's a politician long enough, is imperfect. But she lost against someone who was not only corrupt, deceitful, racist, and misogynist to a degree we've never seen in a major candidate, but reveled in those qualities. Clinton, for all her flaws, was miles and miles a better candidate and person, and her loss says less about her than the voting public.
If she lost to Jeb!, Rubio, even Cruz, there'd be a better base for the "We just need better candidates" argument. But her loss to Trump speaks to ugly, ugly social beliefs about (A) women and our proper place, and (B) what anyone is allowed to say about race and equality. Because in a world without those effects, that shitheel would've lost to a dustbin.
In that context, we have two options:
(1) Pander to those forces and put forward the white dude.
(2) If presented with a candidate who is qualified but might fall victim to them, vigorously fight against the narratives constructed by those forces. Not deny that such narratives were constructed, and certainly not buy into them and perpetuate them.
Unfortunately, when many on the left were denied the first option, they denied that any narrative was ever a narrative--and worse, bought into and perpetuated it. So many people I know on the left think her email server was hacked, and wouldn't have been if run through the State Department--when the exact opposite happened. Who deny interference from Russia in online election chatter, despite the number of security agencies affirming it's the case. Who claim Benghazi was because she personally cut security budgets, when it was the responsibility of a Republican Congress. And on and on.
I think that not enough effort was made to push against these things. I think that's because these lies fed into our pre-existing notion of who she is. Which itself was deliberately constructed decades ago by people who hated the idea of women in politics, and successfully perpetuated because it fit what our society tells us is characteristic of women seeking power.
Lest it be misconstrued, I'm not saying "Trump is the Left's fault." Obviously, Trump is the fault of our fucking gross sexist, misogynist society. I am saying that those who identify as progressive too often forget they themselves are a product of said society, and have blind spots towards how that affects them.
posted by Anonymous at 6:09 AM on November 10, 2016
Let's be clear: Clinton, like all humans and any politician who's a politician long enough, is imperfect. But she lost against someone who was not only corrupt, deceitful, racist, and misogynist to a degree we've never seen in a major candidate, but reveled in those qualities. Clinton, for all her flaws, was miles and miles a better candidate and person, and her loss says less about her than the voting public.
If she lost to Jeb!, Rubio, even Cruz, there'd be a better base for the "We just need better candidates" argument. But her loss to Trump speaks to ugly, ugly social beliefs about (A) women and our proper place, and (B) what anyone is allowed to say about race and equality. Because in a world without those effects, that shitheel would've lost to a dustbin.
In that context, we have two options:
(1) Pander to those forces and put forward the white dude.
(2) If presented with a candidate who is qualified but might fall victim to them, vigorously fight against the narratives constructed by those forces. Not deny that such narratives were constructed, and certainly not buy into them and perpetuate them.
Unfortunately, when many on the left were denied the first option, they denied that any narrative was ever a narrative--and worse, bought into and perpetuated it. So many people I know on the left think her email server was hacked, and wouldn't have been if run through the State Department--when the exact opposite happened. Who deny interference from Russia in online election chatter, despite the number of security agencies affirming it's the case. Who claim Benghazi was because she personally cut security budgets, when it was the responsibility of a Republican Congress. And on and on.
I think that not enough effort was made to push against these things. I think that's because these lies fed into our pre-existing notion of who she is. Which itself was deliberately constructed decades ago by people who hated the idea of women in politics, and successfully perpetuated because it fit what our society tells us is characteristic of women seeking power.
Lest it be misconstrued, I'm not saying "Trump is the Left's fault." Obviously, Trump is the fault of our fucking gross sexist, misogynist society. I am saying that those who identify as progressive too often forget they themselves are a product of said society, and have blind spots towards how that affects them.
posted by Anonymous at 6:09 AM on November 10, 2016
That's one (nationalist-essentialist) way of looking at it; another could be “Well, they're here, they speak Russian but embrace democracy, human rights and pluralism; proof that Another Russia Is Possible”
As HH the Dalai Lama says: "Yes, I suppose it could be possible".
posted by UbuRoivas at 6:09 AM on November 10, 2016
As HH the Dalai Lama says: "Yes, I suppose it could be possible".
posted by UbuRoivas at 6:09 AM on November 10, 2016
Is there any chance the electoral college will turn faithless in Dec?
No. Zero chance. No matter how widely disliked Trump and Clinton may be, their electors are chosen from the party faithful and there are only a few hundred of them. If they could fill Trump tower with people giddy with joy over the fact that Donald Fucking Trump will be in charge of nuclear weapons, they can find 270 to cast binding votes for him.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 6:10 AM on November 10, 2016 [8 favorites]
No. Zero chance. No matter how widely disliked Trump and Clinton may be, their electors are chosen from the party faithful and there are only a few hundred of them. If they could fill Trump tower with people giddy with joy over the fact that Donald Fucking Trump will be in charge of nuclear weapons, they can find 270 to cast binding votes for him.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 6:10 AM on November 10, 2016 [8 favorites]
One problem, Democrats don't get off the couch to vote FOR abortion as an issue, Republicans do - in droves. Anyone inspired by that already had her vote.
Well maybe they should. Maybe, for once, the conversation shouldn't be "what groups can we marginalize or ignore to win the votes of white men," but rather "how do we win with an actual coalition of the groups that need our help."
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 6:11 AM on November 10, 2016 [24 favorites]
Well maybe they should. Maybe, for once, the conversation shouldn't be "what groups can we marginalize or ignore to win the votes of white men," but rather "how do we win with an actual coalition of the groups that need our help."
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 6:11 AM on November 10, 2016 [24 favorites]
boy guys, I'm not a Nate-Silver-is-Jesus person, but before 11/8 people shat on him for not being gung-ho about predicting a Clinton win, and now we're going to shit on him for being too gung-ho? Can we not?
posted by Anonymous at 6:12 AM on November 10, 2016
posted by Anonymous at 6:12 AM on November 10, 2016
We are not watching The End Of America As A Nation, we are watching America returning to one of its baseline positions.
This time, it really is different. It happened here.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 6:14 AM on November 10, 2016 [15 favorites]
This time, it really is different. It happened here.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 6:14 AM on November 10, 2016 [15 favorites]
Reposting in the new thread:
Folks, this presidency and the national GOP party will be an utter disaster that will echo terrible effects into the next 50 years at least.
I am currently ensuring that everything I personally learned and all the experiences I had through this this past episodic emergence of ever so slightly higher ideals and aspirations is somehow saved for the next one that comes along, so they at least know who it was we were, and can maybe start with a little bit more insight than we did growing up.
Can we can be stalwarts and protect the progress we've all made for so many people in the past 8 years? I don't know man, but I'm not feeling it. We are entering a regressive and suppressive age from what I see and feel.
And if you're a trans woman, get cis pretty. Fast.
posted by Annika Cicada at 6:20 AM on November 10, 2016 [11 favorites]
Folks, this presidency and the national GOP party will be an utter disaster that will echo terrible effects into the next 50 years at least.
I am currently ensuring that everything I personally learned and all the experiences I had through this this past episodic emergence of ever so slightly higher ideals and aspirations is somehow saved for the next one that comes along, so they at least know who it was we were, and can maybe start with a little bit more insight than we did growing up.
Can we can be stalwarts and protect the progress we've all made for so many people in the past 8 years? I don't know man, but I'm not feeling it. We are entering a regressive and suppressive age from what I see and feel.
And if you're a trans woman, get cis pretty. Fast.
posted by Annika Cicada at 6:20 AM on November 10, 2016 [11 favorites]
What hit me around 4:00 this morning was - Trump was right about what to do in his campaign. He concentrated on the states that made the difference, and that he was able to win. He spent 7% of what the Democrats did; he ignored the "conventional wisdom", he repeatedly put his foot in his mouth and was caught doing stuff that would have sunk Hillary in no time, and he still managed to win. Without much support from "his" party. Despite all that, despite the huge amount of money and intelligence that the Democrats put into their race.
I don't know if that's an insight, or just insomnia craziness.
posted by still_wears_a_hat at 6:21 AM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
I don't know if that's an insight, or just insomnia craziness.
posted by still_wears_a_hat at 6:21 AM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
boy guys, I'm not a Nate-Silver-is-Jesus person, but before 11/8 people shat on him for not being gung-ho about predicting a Clinton win, and now we're going to shit on him for being too gung-ho? Can we not?
Dude is getting the hate of half the nation for doing statistical analysis that we didn't like, yeah. And maybe his models were crap and we should criticize them for being crap. Or maybe we should criticize him for not being more open about his models and methodology. Those things could arguably be fair.
But first we yelled at him for not catering to our precious confirmation bias. Now we're yelling at him for not tearing it down for us. That's unfair to him, and recriminations are not the way forward. We have work to do.
This is the America we live in now. It's time to accept that and start taking steps to change it, and yelling at Nate Silver isn't one of those steps. We can fight each other, or we can fight what happened. We can't do both.
posted by middleclasstool at 6:21 AM on November 10, 2016 [15 favorites]
Dude is getting the hate of half the nation for doing statistical analysis that we didn't like, yeah. And maybe his models were crap and we should criticize them for being crap. Or maybe we should criticize him for not being more open about his models and methodology. Those things could arguably be fair.
But first we yelled at him for not catering to our precious confirmation bias. Now we're yelling at him for not tearing it down for us. That's unfair to him, and recriminations are not the way forward. We have work to do.
This is the America we live in now. It's time to accept that and start taking steps to change it, and yelling at Nate Silver isn't one of those steps. We can fight each other, or we can fight what happened. We can't do both.
posted by middleclasstool at 6:21 AM on November 10, 2016 [15 favorites]
So I just cried yesterday. I couldn't watch the concession speech, and just burst into tears reading her final email. So today I called the PA Dems to ask about volunteer opportunities in Philadelphia. Fuck this noise of feeling sorry for myself. I am white, cis female, hetero, married, healthy, gainfully employed and have nothing to worry about in comparison to more vulnerable communities. So I'm going to use all my privileges to fight like hell. I have never donated to a campaign before, or volunteered - but I did for Hillary and I will again until the universe makes any kind of sense again.
posted by Suffocating Kitty at 6:22 AM on November 10, 2016 [31 favorites]
posted by Suffocating Kitty at 6:22 AM on November 10, 2016 [31 favorites]
Well maybe they should. Maybe, for once, the conversation shouldn't be "what groups can we marginalize or ignore to win the votes of white men," but rather "how do we win with an actual coalition of the groups that need our help."
I think this could've been done if more time had been spent on what Democrats could do for the country rather than what they weren't doing enough of already.
So many people complained they weren't seeing change fast enough and jumped to "so it's the Democrats' fault" because the President was one--even though he's spent six years with an openly obstructionist opposition Congress.
One thing I'll give the Right: they know how to sell promises. They can hold all the power, use it to completely fuck the country over, and convince voters that all their dreams will come true if they get elected again. For better or for worse, the progressive tendency to prefer on the perfect over the good often results in a circular firing squad.
posted by Anonymous at 6:22 AM on November 10, 2016
I think this could've been done if more time had been spent on what Democrats could do for the country rather than what they weren't doing enough of already.
So many people complained they weren't seeing change fast enough and jumped to "so it's the Democrats' fault" because the President was one--even though he's spent six years with an openly obstructionist opposition Congress.
One thing I'll give the Right: they know how to sell promises. They can hold all the power, use it to completely fuck the country over, and convince voters that all their dreams will come true if they get elected again. For better or for worse, the progressive tendency to prefer on the perfect over the good often results in a circular firing squad.
posted by Anonymous at 6:22 AM on November 10, 2016
This happened today at Royal Oak Middle School in Royal Oak Michigan. It is so sad. Latino children were crying.
The taunts, the "Build that Wall" with such bullying power and hate from children to children. Just Horrifying!
VICTORY KLAVALKADE KLAN PARADE DEC 3RD 2016 NORTH CAROLINA [archive.is but still nsfw and tw]
time to organize tar and feather squads... spouting diversity garbage [tw]
"Shouldn't you sit in the back of the bus today?"
Jesus Christ. What have we done.
posted by Talez at 6:24 AM on November 10, 2016 [77 favorites]
The taunts, the "Build that Wall" with such bullying power and hate from children to children. Just Horrifying!
VICTORY KLAVALKADE KLAN PARADE DEC 3RD 2016 NORTH CAROLINA [archive.is but still nsfw and tw]
time to organize tar and feather squads... spouting diversity garbage [tw]
"Shouldn't you sit in the back of the bus today?"
Jesus Christ. What have we done.
posted by Talez at 6:24 AM on November 10, 2016 [77 favorites]
So -- in the 36 hours or so since it became apparent to me that Trump would be the next Prez, I haven't really had a single moment where I felt the inclination to downplay the impact or to look for positives. This is Just Bad. It is fascism, whether born out of desperation or malice or ignorance or bigotry or whatever, and for the first time in my life I feel it is natural and reasonable to draw parallels with the demise of Weimar and the 1930s.
And from there -- and to me this is stunning and frankly bizarre -- it becomes natural and reasonable to imagine the absolute worst and beyond, including WW3. We might differ on the likelihood of that happening -- I happen to believe it is still a rather remote possibility -- but it is a real possibility nevertheless.
There is only one thing that stands out about these elections that gives me pause (if not relief) when compared to the 1930s. There is no violence. Despite Trump's thinly veiled exhortations towards voter intimidation and the increasingly brash militia, the elections have been peaceful. In the spirit of Mrs.Pterodactyl's comments above, perhaps that does warrant a glimmer of hope.
posted by dmh at 6:26 AM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
And from there -- and to me this is stunning and frankly bizarre -- it becomes natural and reasonable to imagine the absolute worst and beyond, including WW3. We might differ on the likelihood of that happening -- I happen to believe it is still a rather remote possibility -- but it is a real possibility nevertheless.
There is only one thing that stands out about these elections that gives me pause (if not relief) when compared to the 1930s. There is no violence. Despite Trump's thinly veiled exhortations towards voter intimidation and the increasingly brash militia, the elections have been peaceful. In the spirit of Mrs.Pterodactyl's comments above, perhaps that does warrant a glimmer of hope.
posted by dmh at 6:26 AM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
I've been listening to A Prairie Home Companion for as long as I can remember, so I don't say this lightly: Fuck Garrison Keillor. "I'm a rich white guy, I'll be fine, LOL"
Wow. Satire (or comprehension of it) is apparently dead.
posted by aught at 6:27 AM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
Wow. Satire (or comprehension of it) is apparently dead.
posted by aught at 6:27 AM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
There is no violence.
Umm, look two posts up.
posted by acb at 6:27 AM on November 10, 2016 [19 favorites]
Umm, look two posts up.
posted by acb at 6:27 AM on November 10, 2016 [19 favorites]
On election day but well before the polls closed, I had two really homophobic/transphobic interactions with young men, one of which was one of them saying to me/his buddies - as I walked along with a cis male companion, which normally has a protective aspect, "What the fuck is that?" He said it so hatefully, and I would have been really worried if I were alone. In the past year, I've had a couple of really scary interactions with men, one in which I basically escaped being attacked because I was far enough away that the guy's girlfriend convinced him that I was actually a cis man. I could hear her hollering at him, "That's a dude" from down the otherwise empty train platform to dissuade him from jumping me.
It really wasn't until this year that I was afraid. I've been pretty surprised by it, because on the left there is this narrative that if you are a white butch or masculine spectrum person the world is your oyster and any complaints you make are just self-interested lies. But I think right now I have actual reason to be afraid for my physical safety.
I add that these negative interactions have not been only or mostly with white men, either. I don't think there's a "safe" group of cis straight men out there.
posted by Frowner at 6:31 AM on November 10, 2016 [56 favorites]
It really wasn't until this year that I was afraid. I've been pretty surprised by it, because on the left there is this narrative that if you are a white butch or masculine spectrum person the world is your oyster and any complaints you make are just self-interested lies. But I think right now I have actual reason to be afraid for my physical safety.
I add that these negative interactions have not been only or mostly with white men, either. I don't think there's a "safe" group of cis straight men out there.
posted by Frowner at 6:31 AM on November 10, 2016 [56 favorites]
Is Nate Silver our friend or something? People can grumble about him all they want, the dude is a remora to the media and has a plenty comfortable life that is in no particular danger. What on earth could be wrong with talking shit about him?
People are talking like he bears responsibility for this for calculating percentages they didn't like. He doesn't. People can grumble about whoever they like, sure, but I'd personally prefer that they keep their criticisms substantive, and I'd prefer even more that we keep our ire focused on real problems.
posted by middleclasstool at 6:32 AM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
People are talking like he bears responsibility for this for calculating percentages they didn't like. He doesn't. People can grumble about whoever they like, sure, but I'd personally prefer that they keep their criticisms substantive, and I'd prefer even more that we keep our ire focused on real problems.
posted by middleclasstool at 6:32 AM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
On the weird plus side with the GOP in charge of everything they may less of a need to be so hyper partisan just for the sake of it. They'll have to get back to the business of government with no excuses. Trump is a heart something of a conman who is full of shit, who will compromise when its beneficial which is kind of preferable to a fervent true believer in anything. I'm more worried about Pence and Cruz.
posted by Damienmce at 6:33 AM on November 10, 2016
posted by Damienmce at 6:33 AM on November 10, 2016
My mom just texted me don't wear the hijab please
Are you scared now [tw: sexual assault]
Trump supporter assaulted [tw: violence]
Blackface at U of Oregon
Developing: At least 8 trans youth have committed suicide in the wake of Trump's win, according to a private support group.
Trans Life Line is a suicide hotline run and operated by trans people for trans people.
300 [the amount they've received] is the most they've ever received in 24hrs
1. At York Tech High School in PA white students literally walked down the hall chanting "white power" while holding Donald Trump signs. [tw: racism] THIS IS THE START OF A FUCKING LIST.
Fuck this whole thing. Fuck it. Fuck it. Fuck it. FUCK IT.
posted by Talez at 6:35 AM on November 10, 2016 [105 favorites]
Are you scared now [tw: sexual assault]
![Are you scared now [tw: sexual assault]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cw2bC1vUUAAWxyd.jpg:large){kind=link}
Trump supporter assaulted [tw: violence]
Blackface at U of Oregon
Developing: At least 8 trans youth have committed suicide in the wake of Trump's win, according to a private support group.
Trans Life Line is a suicide hotline run and operated by trans people for trans people.
300 [the amount they've received] is the most they've ever received in 24hrs
1. At York Tech High School in PA white students literally walked down the hall chanting "white power" while holding Donald Trump signs. [tw: racism] THIS IS THE START OF A FUCKING LIST.
Fuck this whole thing. Fuck it. Fuck it. Fuck it. FUCK IT.
posted by Talez at 6:35 AM on November 10, 2016 [105 favorites]
What on earth could be wrong with talking shit about him?
. . . Because it's hypocritical shit-talking? Because the energy spent on blaming those not at fault is more properly spent on blaming those who are? Because when we indulge in counter-factual shitfests we perpetuate the larger trend of confusing feelings and reality?
posted by Anonymous at 6:35 AM on November 10, 2016
. . . Because it's hypocritical shit-talking? Because the energy spent on blaming those not at fault is more properly spent on blaming those who are? Because when we indulge in counter-factual shitfests we perpetuate the larger trend of confusing feelings and reality?
posted by Anonymous at 6:35 AM on November 10, 2016
The Republicans run on a platform of prideful ignorance, while the Democrats run as the clever know-it-alls, yet election after election, those embracing ignorance out smart the know-it-alls who end up fighting among themselves to see what or who they should sacrifice next.
I don't know what country you're commenting from, but as someone who went to public high school in the U.S. I recognize the dynamic all too well. All those ignorant, tedious assholes I was glad to never see again after I went off to college... are still out there, living their shitty lives with shitty opinions about everything. And a lot more of them voted this week than usual.
posted by aught at 6:35 AM on November 10, 2016 [21 favorites]
I don't know what country you're commenting from, but as someone who went to public high school in the U.S. I recognize the dynamic all too well. All those ignorant, tedious assholes I was glad to never see again after I went off to college... are still out there, living their shitty lives with shitty opinions about everything. And a lot more of them voted this week than usual.
posted by aught at 6:35 AM on November 10, 2016 [21 favorites]
I add that these negative interactions have not been only or mostly with white men, either. I don't think there's a "safe" group of cis straight men out there.
To clarify - I think hateful behavior can come from any straight cis man, unfortunately, not just the white ones.
posted by Frowner at 6:36 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
To clarify - I think hateful behavior can come from any straight cis man, unfortunately, not just the white ones.
posted by Frowner at 6:36 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
"Someone on the bus grabbed my... " It's what Trump said he does and he was elected President." [tw: sexual assault]
THIS IS NOT OK.
posted by Talez at 6:37 AM on November 10, 2016 [19 favorites]
THIS IS NOT OK.
posted by Talez at 6:37 AM on November 10, 2016 [19 favorites]
You Did This, America: Sarah Palin Being Considered for Cabinet
You remember Sarah Palin -- she was the one who used private email.
posted by Capt. Renault at 6:38 AM on November 10, 2016 [25 favorites]
You remember Sarah Palin -- she was the one who used private email.
posted by Capt. Renault at 6:38 AM on November 10, 2016 [25 favorites]
I'll try to find an actual link but word from my connections to what's happening at the climate change talks in Marrakech is that they're dealing with new evidence that the globe has 4 years to peak omissions. Lovely thing about climate science right now is that it seems to consistently be too conservative.
4 years and then that's about it.
I'm really not sure how to process the gravity without just wanting to scream and have my brain shut down in some sort of denial. I get the urge to just kinda ignore it, I really do.
I also get that with what just happened the need and desire to look back on history and find comfort in 'we went through this before, we will survive this'
Thing is and I implore people at least get this into their base understanding of the larger context is that, the US and the entire globe is now in an era where none of us 'has gone through this before'.
This time around the broader context is really, really different. I'm not suggesting that it means not surviving. I'm suggesting that this understanding really needs to inform 'we've been through this before' type thinking. No, you haven't.
posted by Jalliah at 6:39 AM on November 10, 2016 [19 favorites]
4 years and then that's about it.
I'm really not sure how to process the gravity without just wanting to scream and have my brain shut down in some sort of denial. I get the urge to just kinda ignore it, I really do.
I also get that with what just happened the need and desire to look back on history and find comfort in 'we went through this before, we will survive this'
Thing is and I implore people at least get this into their base understanding of the larger context is that, the US and the entire globe is now in an era where none of us 'has gone through this before'.
This time around the broader context is really, really different. I'm not suggesting that it means not surviving. I'm suggesting that this understanding really needs to inform 'we've been through this before' type thinking. No, you haven't.
posted by Jalliah at 6:39 AM on November 10, 2016 [19 favorites]
THIS IS NOT OK.
There will never be “OK” after 11/9/2016.
something something Adorno something poetry the Holocaust
posted by acb at 6:39 AM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
There will never be “OK” after 11/9/2016.
something something Adorno something poetry the Holocaust
posted by acb at 6:39 AM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
@pgrrrls: Please cease with the white privilege bullshit of "good art will come out of this"
One problem with this snap back is most of the calls for art I have seen on my twitter feed and elsewhere have actually come from POC and LGBT artists.
(I recognize that as a white, middle-aged, lapsed poet I am not actually the one they're tweeting / soliciting for oppositional art, but these calls sure as hell have nothing to do with white privilege, and I think the logic is more like "Good art will help fight evil," not "We can get some good art out of others' misfortune.")
posted by aught at 6:40 AM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
One problem with this snap back is most of the calls for art I have seen on my twitter feed and elsewhere have actually come from POC and LGBT artists.
(I recognize that as a white, middle-aged, lapsed poet I am not actually the one they're tweeting / soliciting for oppositional art, but these calls sure as hell have nothing to do with white privilege, and I think the logic is more like "Good art will help fight evil," not "We can get some good art out of others' misfortune.")
posted by aught at 6:40 AM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
something something Adorno something poetry the Holocaust
afraid I don't know what this means, care to explain?
posted by thelonius at 6:40 AM on November 10, 2016
afraid I don't know what this means, care to explain?
posted by thelonius at 6:40 AM on November 10, 2016
4 years and then that's about it.
Maybe the Peter Thiels of this world can have genetic modifications enabling them to breathe methane or something. Everything's gonna be just fine, for the people who matter.
posted by acb at 6:41 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
Maybe the Peter Thiels of this world can have genetic modifications enabling them to breathe methane or something. Everything's gonna be just fine, for the people who matter.
posted by acb at 6:41 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
afraid I don't know what this means, care to explain?
"Writing poetry after Auschwitz is barbaric"
posted by Talez at 6:42 AM on November 10, 2016 [7 favorites]
"Writing poetry after Auschwitz is barbaric"
posted by Talez at 6:42 AM on November 10, 2016 [7 favorites]
Their support of free trade is "probably the biggest reason Trump won" in the same way that their support of civil rights for non-whites is "probably the biggest reason Trump won"
Please don't compare opposition to free trade to opposition to civil rights.
posted by Beholder at 6:43 AM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
Please don't compare opposition to free trade to opposition to civil rights.
posted by Beholder at 6:43 AM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
I've been very curious what will happen next year if (when) the United States fails to raise its borrowing limit and begins defaulting on its debts. Has anyone come across good analysis of the likely economic consequences?
Have the majority of Republicans ever cared about the borrowing limit when there is a Republican president?
posted by drezdn at 6:44 AM on November 10, 2016 [11 favorites]
"Writing poetry after Auschwitz is barbaric"
Alternately, "the fact that great art has been made in reaction to the Holocaust does not constitute a 'silver lining' to the Holocaust."
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 6:44 AM on November 10, 2016 [31 favorites]
Alternately, "the fact that great art has been made in reaction to the Holocaust does not constitute a 'silver lining' to the Holocaust."
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 6:44 AM on November 10, 2016 [31 favorites]
Bernie and Bloomberg could have ran their own independent campaigns and Trump/Cinton would have been relegated to 3rd and 4th choices.
This doesn't seem right?
If you are not willing to give up a generation to create true democracy in this country you deserve fascism.
Well this might be the worst thing I've ever heard! Jesus Christ you want to sacrifice an entire generation of human people to your ideals? You think the fact that I don't means I deserve fascism? Holy fuck!
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 6:46 AM on November 10, 2016 [84 favorites]
This doesn't seem right?
If you are not willing to give up a generation to create true democracy in this country you deserve fascism.
Well this might be the worst thing I've ever heard! Jesus Christ you want to sacrifice an entire generation of human people to your ideals? You think the fact that I don't means I deserve fascism? Holy fuck!
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 6:46 AM on November 10, 2016 [84 favorites]
For what it's worth, on grieving. I was talking with my husband about how I keep cycling between anger and grief and despair. And the 'well-meaning' people in my life - people I believe to be genuinely good people (or did)- who voted for Trump are now trying to tell me that everything will be okay. And how hard it is for me to even be civil with them.
He said there's a reason that in Judaism, after a death, shiva lasts for 7 days. That different people react to loss differently. Some people cope fine for the first couple of days and then collapse, others start out despondent and then find a place of acceptance. And some people cycle between them. That grieving takes time, and the understanding and wisdom that comes from losing someone or something important to you takes time, and it's not human to expect to just move on from it right away. That to some extent in our culture we value the idea that you hit the ground running, that you brush yourself off and take what's in front of you and deal with it as productively as possible, and that's how you cope. And that works for some people. But for a lot of people, that's just asking too much. And for many, the decisions you make when the wound is still fresh are coming from such an emotional place that they do more harm than good.
He suggested I treat this less like an awful event and more like a death. To take the full shiva week to have my feelings and not feel obligated to move on in any way - productively or socially. So I'm at work (I definitely don't have the luxury to actually sit at home and mope) but I'm letting myself feel sad and scared and betrayed. And I know I will take steps to help fight for what I think is right. But it's really helping me to think of taking some time to process not as a sign of insufficient rage or motivation, and more as a self-healing moment to gather the strength I will need for later.
posted by Mchelly at 6:46 AM on November 10, 2016 [91 favorites]
He said there's a reason that in Judaism, after a death, shiva lasts for 7 days. That different people react to loss differently. Some people cope fine for the first couple of days and then collapse, others start out despondent and then find a place of acceptance. And some people cycle between them. That grieving takes time, and the understanding and wisdom that comes from losing someone or something important to you takes time, and it's not human to expect to just move on from it right away. That to some extent in our culture we value the idea that you hit the ground running, that you brush yourself off and take what's in front of you and deal with it as productively as possible, and that's how you cope. And that works for some people. But for a lot of people, that's just asking too much. And for many, the decisions you make when the wound is still fresh are coming from such an emotional place that they do more harm than good.
He suggested I treat this less like an awful event and more like a death. To take the full shiva week to have my feelings and not feel obligated to move on in any way - productively or socially. So I'm at work (I definitely don't have the luxury to actually sit at home and mope) but I'm letting myself feel sad and scared and betrayed. And I know I will take steps to help fight for what I think is right. But it's really helping me to think of taking some time to process not as a sign of insufficient rage or motivation, and more as a self-healing moment to gather the strength I will need for later.
posted by Mchelly at 6:46 AM on November 10, 2016 [91 favorites]
I keep thinking about the great art made by LGBTQIA people in the '80s, and then I think about how many of those people survived their 30s. Art can be a great form of protest, but it cannot be the only form of protest.
posted by pxe2000 at 6:46 AM on November 10, 2016 [14 favorites]
posted by pxe2000 at 6:46 AM on November 10, 2016 [14 favorites]
I keep thinking about the great art made by LGBTQIA people in the '80s, and then I think about how many of those people survived their 30s. Art can be a great form of protest, but it cannot be the only form of protest.
Also, as a form of protest it achieves little against the oppressor. John Heartfield, for all his work, did nothing to slow the rise of Nazism even for a moment.
posted by acb at 6:49 AM on November 10, 2016 [7 favorites]
Also, as a form of protest it achieves little against the oppressor. John Heartfield, for all his work, did nothing to slow the rise of Nazism even for a moment.
posted by acb at 6:49 AM on November 10, 2016 [7 favorites]
One thing that’s getting me through today is remembering that @FLOTUS used steel reinforcements to anchor her White House garden in place. (twitter)
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:49 AM on November 10, 2016 [22 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:49 AM on November 10, 2016 [22 favorites]
Is there any chance the electoral college will turn faithless in Dec?
posted by slipthought at 9:08 AM on November 10 [1 favorite +] [!]
Even if we tried to turn electors and it worked (and it would probably not, I imagine many, even if queasy about Trump, believe in sacred trusts and so on), if we burned that bridge, we would never have a sane election again, because the Republicans would use the precedent to invalidate every future Democratic winner in a close race.
posted by aught at 6:50 AM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by slipthought at 9:08 AM on November 10 [1 favorite +] [!]
Even if we tried to turn electors and it worked (and it would probably not, I imagine many, even if queasy about Trump, believe in sacred trusts and so on), if we burned that bridge, we would never have a sane election again, because the Republicans would use the precedent to invalidate every future Democratic winner in a close race.
posted by aught at 6:50 AM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
The GOP Congress has been holding their foot on the neck of government since they took over in 2011.
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=9Jbl
real Federal spending annual growth %
Expect a trillion dollar defense budget this decade
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=9Jbo
real (2009 dollars) defense spending
tax cuts via the flat tax
tax-free repatriation of corporate $$$ held overseas
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/09/20/us-companies-are-hoarding-2-and-a-half-trillion-dollars-in-cash-overseas.html
another real estate bubble
wage inflation
I have no guess which way the dollar is going. #MAGA means a strong dollar, but the meaning of his words require a weak dollar.
At any rate, if the GOP discovers MMT we're well and truly screwed.
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 6:51 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=9Jbl
real Federal spending annual growth %
Expect a trillion dollar defense budget this decade
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=9Jbo
real (2009 dollars) defense spending
tax cuts via the flat tax
tax-free repatriation of corporate $$$ held overseas
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/09/20/us-companies-are-hoarding-2-and-a-half-trillion-dollars-in-cash-overseas.html
another real estate bubble
wage inflation
I have no guess which way the dollar is going. #MAGA means a strong dollar, but the meaning of his words require a weak dollar.
At any rate, if the GOP discovers MMT we're well and truly screwed.
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 6:51 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
I remember Reagan.
Oh I remember Reagan too. We were all terrified of him because he was such a loose-cannon cowboy. What we didn't remember was that before he entered politics he had been a corporate spokesman, and he remembered who he worked for. Those people were evil and greedy and selfish but they did not want to burn the country completely down. They realized nuclear war would be bad for business. They even realized it was necessary to use taxes to raise revenue to keep the government running, because as annoying as it could sometimes be a functional government was also good for business.
And I remember W. We were all terrified of what he might do because he was clearly such an idiot. What if he got the nuclear football and started asking "What does this do?" What we didn't realize was that he was a small, weak man in the thrall of a group of operatives who were really much smarter than him. They were nasty, evil, and had dreams of empire, but they did at least have a plan even if it was a terrible plan that blew up in the end. Those people didn't want to burn the country down because they wanted it to become the foundation of a new Roman empire.
And now we have Trump. He is beholden to nobody, he doesn't take advice or listen to anyone else. He is a walking monument to Dunning-Kruger syndrome and seems to always be quite certain he is the smartest person in the room regardless of who else is there. He knows nothing of world affairs, history, or anything else that he hasn't exploited to try and make a buck. He wants everything he does to be the biggest, most flamboyant, most memorable spectacle to his own ego possible. He is everything we thought Reagan and W were, squared and sprayed with gold paint.
Of the many worries I have, I suppose the biggest is what happens when there is another embassy bombing or Bob help us 9/11 style attack, and President Trump tells the generals "fuck you, I'm the President and I say we nuke them." Because I have no doubt that's exactly what he will do. Second biggest is never big enough for Donald. Holding back is not his style. He will insist on letting the world know that Trump does not fuck around. Re-watch the first season West Wing episode A Proportional Response and imagine Trump sitting in Bartlett's chair.
What then do the generals do? I have a few ideas. None of them end with nukes being launched but none of them end up looking much like America as we know it any more either.
posted by Bringer Tom at 6:51 AM on November 10, 2016 [71 favorites]
Oh I remember Reagan too. We were all terrified of him because he was such a loose-cannon cowboy. What we didn't remember was that before he entered politics he had been a corporate spokesman, and he remembered who he worked for. Those people were evil and greedy and selfish but they did not want to burn the country completely down. They realized nuclear war would be bad for business. They even realized it was necessary to use taxes to raise revenue to keep the government running, because as annoying as it could sometimes be a functional government was also good for business.
And I remember W. We were all terrified of what he might do because he was clearly such an idiot. What if he got the nuclear football and started asking "What does this do?" What we didn't realize was that he was a small, weak man in the thrall of a group of operatives who were really much smarter than him. They were nasty, evil, and had dreams of empire, but they did at least have a plan even if it was a terrible plan that blew up in the end. Those people didn't want to burn the country down because they wanted it to become the foundation of a new Roman empire.
And now we have Trump. He is beholden to nobody, he doesn't take advice or listen to anyone else. He is a walking monument to Dunning-Kruger syndrome and seems to always be quite certain he is the smartest person in the room regardless of who else is there. He knows nothing of world affairs, history, or anything else that he hasn't exploited to try and make a buck. He wants everything he does to be the biggest, most flamboyant, most memorable spectacle to his own ego possible. He is everything we thought Reagan and W were, squared and sprayed with gold paint.
Of the many worries I have, I suppose the biggest is what happens when there is another embassy bombing or Bob help us 9/11 style attack, and President Trump tells the generals "fuck you, I'm the President and I say we nuke them." Because I have no doubt that's exactly what he will do. Second biggest is never big enough for Donald. Holding back is not his style. He will insist on letting the world know that Trump does not fuck around. Re-watch the first season West Wing episode A Proportional Response and imagine Trump sitting in Bartlett's chair.
What then do the generals do? I have a few ideas. None of them end with nukes being launched but none of them end up looking much like America as we know it any more either.
posted by Bringer Tom at 6:51 AM on November 10, 2016 [71 favorites]
One thing that’s getting me through today is remembering that @FLOTUS used steel reinforcements to anchor her White House garden in place.
That'll slow the bulldozers down for a little bit. :(
posted by drezdn at 6:52 AM on November 10, 2016
Chris Hayes is just baiting Kellyanne now. I do very much admire the press at MSNBC.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:52 AM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:52 AM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
There were a couple/three R electors who were anti-Trump, but, yeah, going that route isn't a pleasant thing to imagine either. You'd have to burn the bridge as you go essentially.
posted by gusottertrout at 6:52 AM on November 10, 2016
posted by gusottertrout at 6:52 AM on November 10, 2016
Avoiding the Circular Firing Squad, from Lawyers, Guns and Money.
posted by Halloween Jack at 6:55 AM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Halloween Jack at 6:55 AM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
Does anyone know where Hillary is or how she's doing? I'm hoping she's safe. Given how Trump supporters are behaving towards those who are unlike them, I am scared for her.
posted by pxe2000 at 6:56 AM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by pxe2000 at 6:56 AM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
I'm hoping she's safe.
I'm hoping her and Bill (and maybe even Chelsea) have a plan for getting out of the country in 24 hours if the shit hits the fan.
posted by drezdn at 6:57 AM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
I'm hoping her and Bill (and maybe even Chelsea) have a plan for getting out of the country in 24 hours if the shit hits the fan.
posted by drezdn at 6:57 AM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
Does anyone know where Hillary is or how she's doing? I'm hoping she's safe. Given how Trump supporters are behaving towards those who are unlike them, I am scared for her.
She will have protection.
posted by Jalliah at 6:57 AM on November 10, 2016
She will have protection.
posted by Jalliah at 6:57 AM on November 10, 2016
My partner is early in the probationary period (less than 3 weeks into his 90 days) for a union job in a Detroit hospital system. A large portion of his coworkers are smug asshole white dudes, who have been reveling in sending mean misogynist 'jokes' to each other since the election. They assume he agrees, because he had been relatively quiet until he got into the union - kept his head down, did the work, went home.
That shit ended yesterday. He told those dudes to get that shit out of his face. He said, after he came home, 'If that's what it takes to get a union job, I can't do it.' He is now actively reaching out to his female and PoC co-workers, because their workplace is not safer or better when he keeps his head down, not when the assholes are so loud and have such power.
He is not a political fellow by nature. It was easier to keep silent when he thought Trump was a guaranteed loser. It was easier to just talk football, just talk kids, just talk music - anything but politics with these people who hold power over his work life. It is not easier any more.
posted by palindromic at 6:58 AM on November 10, 2016 [95 favorites]
That shit ended yesterday. He told those dudes to get that shit out of his face. He said, after he came home, 'If that's what it takes to get a union job, I can't do it.' He is now actively reaching out to his female and PoC co-workers, because their workplace is not safer or better when he keeps his head down, not when the assholes are so loud and have such power.
He is not a political fellow by nature. It was easier to keep silent when he thought Trump was a guaranteed loser. It was easier to just talk football, just talk kids, just talk music - anything but politics with these people who hold power over his work life. It is not easier any more.
posted by palindromic at 6:58 AM on November 10, 2016 [95 favorites]
there any chance the electoral college will turn faithless in Dec?
Not with everyone already giving him the keys.
posted by corb at 6:59 AM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
Not with everyone already giving him the keys.
posted by corb at 6:59 AM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
HRC and Bill have had continuous Secret Service protection since Bill left office and will for the rest of their lives.
posted by muddgirl at 7:01 AM on November 10, 2016 [26 favorites]
posted by muddgirl at 7:01 AM on November 10, 2016 [26 favorites]
I'm kind of curious how much the Republican leadership actively were worried about Trump's actions, or if it could have been a work, to make him look more like an outsider.
posted by drezdn at 7:01 AM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by drezdn at 7:01 AM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
I know that people need to vent, but I find the protests a bit pointless. What's the concrete goal there? It's not like Trump will decide to step down in the face of protests.
Maybe the protests would make more sense to me if they focused on some specific change, like getting rid of the electoral college. It seems to me that for people who don't already hate Trump (assuming that those are the intended audience), "our candidate won, but the system is unfair" would be a more effective message than "our candidate lost, but we don't like the winner." The former is highlighting a genuinely unfair electoral system, but the latter just sounds like the protesters are being sore losers.
posted by klausness at 7:01 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
Maybe the protests would make more sense to me if they focused on some specific change, like getting rid of the electoral college. It seems to me that for people who don't already hate Trump (assuming that those are the intended audience), "our candidate won, but the system is unfair" would be a more effective message than "our candidate lost, but we don't like the winner." The former is highlighting a genuinely unfair electoral system, but the latter just sounds like the protesters are being sore losers.
posted by klausness at 7:01 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
and trump? - i have no idea what he's going to do
the worst part is, neither does he
I suspect he knows exactly what he's going to do...parade around state dinners with his wife, emboss "President Trump" on everything he can, and wrap the Lincoln Bedroom in gold.
And let Pence actually do all the work.
posted by HighLife at 7:04 AM on November 10, 2016 [15 favorites]
the worst part is, neither does he
I suspect he knows exactly what he's going to do...parade around state dinners with his wife, emboss "President Trump" on everything he can, and wrap the Lincoln Bedroom in gold.
And let Pence actually do all the work.
posted by HighLife at 7:04 AM on November 10, 2016 [15 favorites]
It's entirely possible that Trump's DOJ will try to put her on trial.
posted by drezdn at 7:04 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by drezdn at 7:04 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
Also today I was walking my son to school in the morning and some white guy stared me in the eye and said "Good morning, President Trump!" in a really loud voice. Only to me. We're pretty clearly Jewish (my son was wearing a kippah and his school jacket has Hebrew on the logo), but I don't know if this was a Trump voter doing it to put me in my place, or an angry liberal deciding that since I'm Orthodox we must have voted for Trump and he wanted me to know he was angry. Or whether he's saying it to random people and (lucky us) he chose me.
I told my kid he was a random weirdo. But that uncertainty has just enough fear underneath it to make me really creeped out.
posted by Mchelly at 7:04 AM on November 10, 2016 [41 favorites]
I told my kid he was a random weirdo. But that uncertainty has just enough fear underneath it to make me really creeped out.
posted by Mchelly at 7:04 AM on November 10, 2016 [41 favorites]
What's the concrete goal there?
To tell women, minorities, immigrants, and LGBT people that there are people out there that don't support this countries new "mandate."
posted by drezdn at 7:05 AM on November 10, 2016 [61 favorites]
To tell women, minorities, immigrants, and LGBT people that there are people out there that don't support this countries new "mandate."
posted by drezdn at 7:05 AM on November 10, 2016 [61 favorites]
I'm feeling a lot better about the Clinton loss now. She won the popular and came within 1% of winning four major states that she lost. While it still sucks to have Trump as President, her near win means the things she was fighting for are very palatable to the American populace.
Time to learn from the mistakes and put together a plan for 2018. Hopefully the DNC cleans house and doubles down on reaching out to people of all classes and stripes, while holding firm on protecting the disadvantaged and minorities.
Th key lesson I'm taking from all this is that you have work to make sure that the populace is fed and taken care of as you advance the rights of minorities. This is absolutely critical and its where the Dems let themselves be outflanked by the Republicans.
This loss sucks, it hurts and it's going to hurt a lot more. But all is not lost and there's a clear opportunity here for 2020, which is critical for redrawing the map to get rid the safe districts Republicans drew in 2010.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:08 AM on November 10, 2016 [56 favorites]
Time to learn from the mistakes and put together a plan for 2018. Hopefully the DNC cleans house and doubles down on reaching out to people of all classes and stripes, while holding firm on protecting the disadvantaged and minorities.
Th key lesson I'm taking from all this is that you have work to make sure that the populace is fed and taken care of as you advance the rights of minorities. This is absolutely critical and its where the Dems let themselves be outflanked by the Republicans.
This loss sucks, it hurts and it's going to hurt a lot more. But all is not lost and there's a clear opportunity here for 2020, which is critical for redrawing the map to get rid the safe districts Republicans drew in 2010.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:08 AM on November 10, 2016 [56 favorites]
I know that people need to vent, but I find the protests a bit pointless. What's the concrete goal there?
That was my initial reaction as well. But in a news clip on NPR this morning, one protestor interviewed said he wanted to show the world that not all Americans support Trump. So I had to admit, yeah, that's a concrete goal which the protests might achieve. (You could also point to the 65M+ people who voted for someone other than Trump, but that doesn't necessarily get across the depth of anger and disgust at Trump the way protests do.)
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 7:08 AM on November 10, 2016 [40 favorites]
That was my initial reaction as well. But in a news clip on NPR this morning, one protestor interviewed said he wanted to show the world that not all Americans support Trump. So I had to admit, yeah, that's a concrete goal which the protests might achieve. (You could also point to the 65M+ people who voted for someone other than Trump, but that doesn't necessarily get across the depth of anger and disgust at Trump the way protests do.)
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 7:08 AM on November 10, 2016 [40 favorites]
What's the concrete goal there?
"He's here. He'll get no satisfaction out of me. He isn't going to see me beg."
"My you chivalric fool... as if the way one fell down mattered."
"When the fall is all there is, it matters."
posted by Etrigan at 7:12 AM on November 10, 2016 [25 favorites]
"He's here. He'll get no satisfaction out of me. He isn't going to see me beg."
"My you chivalric fool... as if the way one fell down mattered."
"When the fall is all there is, it matters."
posted by Etrigan at 7:12 AM on November 10, 2016 [25 favorites]
Muslim Ban Vanishes From Trump’s Website
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:14 AM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:14 AM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
That was my initial reaction as well. But in a news clip on NPR this morning, one protestor interviewed said he wanted to show the world that not all Americans support Trump. So I had to admit, yeah, that's a concrete goal which the protests might achieve.
I think also bringing solace to your friends and neighbors in the area (and others around the country) by showing them that you're willing to take action and fight for them. Hopefully knowing that there are people who care enough to march will make those who are scared feel at least a little bit safer.
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 7:16 AM on November 10, 2016 [14 favorites]
I think also bringing solace to your friends and neighbors in the area (and others around the country) by showing them that you're willing to take action and fight for them. Hopefully knowing that there are people who care enough to march will make those who are scared feel at least a little bit safer.
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 7:16 AM on November 10, 2016 [14 favorites]
Given the panicked call I got last night from our financial adviser down in GA, who is a neverTrump Republican, that pretty much stated "we have no idea what's going to happen if he fucks with China, no one does, holy shit" I found myself just unloading all my "don't you Republicans aspire to protect corporate interests? If he crashes the world fucking economy on your watch, which I'm pretty sure he will, then you've not only shot yourselves in the face, but you did so with glee. JESUS TAKE THE FUCKING WHEEL. Welcome to the club and write your congressperson" anger.
I'm young enough, my 401K evaporating might be fixable. It's going to bankrupt and, ultimately, kill a lot of older folks, especially if the ACA goes away which it will hahaha sob.
posted by lydhre at 7:17 AM on November 10, 2016 [11 favorites]
I'm young enough, my 401K evaporating might be fixable. It's going to bankrupt and, ultimately, kill a lot of older folks, especially if the ACA goes away which it will hahaha sob.
posted by lydhre at 7:17 AM on November 10, 2016 [11 favorites]
Protests are important because we damn well need to sell the story that this is crazy Trump vs. the American people and this Shit is Not OK.
posted by Zalzidrax at 7:20 AM on November 10, 2016 [17 favorites]
posted by Zalzidrax at 7:20 AM on November 10, 2016 [17 favorites]
Fred Clark: White evangelicalism is white nationalism:
White evangelicalism yesterday performed the purpose for which it was designed: It elected a white nationalist as president.posted by palindromic at 7:21 AM on November 10, 2016 [63 favorites]
This was not a failure, but a success. This was not a side effect or an accident or a collateral consequence. This was not the end of white evangelicalism, but the culmination of its purpose, its origin, its intent. White evangelicalism is white nationalism. This is what it is, and always has been, for.
the elitists lost
Can someone give me a definition of elitist that would make this statement make any sense?
posted by rocket88 at 7:22 AM on November 10, 2016 [21 favorites]
Can someone give me a definition of elitist that would make this statement make any sense?
posted by rocket88 at 7:22 AM on November 10, 2016 [21 favorites]
As a family we're trying to come up with a plan that will both keep us sane and offer some net good for the world. We're privileged straight-married (I'm not straight but I benefit from that privilege) white folks, so the most we have to fear is nuclear or financial market Armageddon (I work for a public university so if public funds dry up enough, my job is on the line), but we live in a vibrant, diverse city filled with people whose lives are at stake.
We're looking for volunteer and activism opportunities driven by the needs and vision of our local communities of color. We're looking for ways to involve our four-year-old in volunteer work and charitable giving. And personally I am looking for some good books to read so that when I am not out doing this work, I can practice a modicum of self-care and not drive myself to the depths of anxiety.
I think also there might be some very angry letters in my future. I need to vent off some of this pressure before I can roll up my sleeves and get to work properly.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:22 AM on November 10, 2016 [7 favorites]
We're looking for volunteer and activism opportunities driven by the needs and vision of our local communities of color. We're looking for ways to involve our four-year-old in volunteer work and charitable giving. And personally I am looking for some good books to read so that when I am not out doing this work, I can practice a modicum of self-care and not drive myself to the depths of anxiety.
I think also there might be some very angry letters in my future. I need to vent off some of this pressure before I can roll up my sleeves and get to work properly.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:22 AM on November 10, 2016 [7 favorites]
Just as a reminder, since there was amazingly some pushback on this in the previous thread: the electoral college exists because of slavery.
Textbooks and primers offer us two common explanations for the creation of the electoral college. Both are wrong, and both miss one of the central purposes of the electoral college, which was to insure that the largest state, Virginia, would be able to elect the national president, and that the slave states would be able to use their slave population to influence the election of the president. Paul Finkelman, The Proslavery Origins of the Electoral College, 23 Cardozo L. Rev. 1145.posted by stopgap at 7:24 AM on November 10, 2016 [55 favorites]
In other words, in a direct election system, the North would outnumber the South, whose many slaves (more than half a million in all) of course could not vote. But the Electoral College . . . instead let each southern state count its slaves, albeit with a two-fifths discount, in computing its share of the overall count. Akhil Reed Amar, The Troubling Reason the Electoral College Exists, Time.
Can someone give me a definition of elitist that would make this statement make any sense?
Elitist: Someone who is not an idiot.
posted by TedW at 7:24 AM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
Elitist: Someone who is not an idiot.
posted by TedW at 7:24 AM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
the elitists lost
Can someone give me a definition of elitist that would make this statement make any sense?
Republicans coin terms that make no sense and Democrats debate their meaning endlessly on cable news, internet forums and NPR. Keep taking the bait while they loot the treasury.
posted by any major dude at 7:25 AM on November 10, 2016 [15 favorites]
Can someone give me a definition of elitist that would make this statement make any sense?
Republicans coin terms that make no sense and Democrats debate their meaning endlessly on cable news, internet forums and NPR. Keep taking the bait while they loot the treasury.
posted by any major dude at 7:25 AM on November 10, 2016 [15 favorites]
Can someone give me a definition of elitist that would make this statement make any sense?
An elitist is someone who disagrees with you without cussing.
posted by Etrigan at 7:25 AM on November 10, 2016 [19 favorites]
An elitist is someone who disagrees with you without cussing.
posted by Etrigan at 7:25 AM on November 10, 2016 [19 favorites]
The power of non-violent action should be studied as much as military and violent action is studied..... there are hundreds of non-violent actions with demonstrable impact in regime changes...but they tend not to be organised sufficiently...
I was sent a link to Raquib's TED talk on this..
posted by Wilder at 7:26 AM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
I was sent a link to Raquib's TED talk on this..
posted by Wilder at 7:26 AM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
So the silver-spoon private school brat son of a multi-millionaire who never worked a real day in his life and lives in a gold-plated palace is *not* elite?
posted by rocket88 at 7:28 AM on November 10, 2016 [44 favorites]
posted by rocket88 at 7:28 AM on November 10, 2016 [44 favorites]
I'm really worried for the Baltic nations
It's hardly reassuring that potential Secretary of State Newt Gingrich dismisses Estonia (a NATO ally) as "some place which is the suburbs of St. Petersburg.":
posted by Kabanos at 7:28 AM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
It's hardly reassuring that potential Secretary of State Newt Gingrich dismisses Estonia (a NATO ally) as "some place which is the suburbs of St. Petersburg.":
When pressed on whether Trump and the U.S. would come to the aid of countries like Estonia in the case of a Russian invasion, Gingrich said he too "would think about it a great deal."
"Estonia is in the suburbs of St. Petersburg. The Russians aren't gonna necessarily come across the border militarily. The Russians are gonna do what they did in Ukraine," he said. "I'm not sure I would risk a nuclear war over some place which is the suburbs of St. Petersburg. I think we have to think about what does this stuff mean."
posted by Kabanos at 7:28 AM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
198 methods of non-violent resistance.
posted by drezdn at 7:29 AM on November 10, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by drezdn at 7:29 AM on November 10, 2016 [10 favorites]
So the silver-spoon private school brat son of a multi-millionaire who never worked a real day in his life and lives in a gold-plated palace is *not* elite?
Of course not, because he said he wasn't and that's all that counts to some folks.
posted by lydhre at 7:29 AM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
Of course not, because he said he wasn't and that's all that counts to some folks.
posted by lydhre at 7:29 AM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
Given the panicked call I got last night from our financial adviser down in GA
This is not your AskMe (TINYA?), but IMHO your angry response is correct -- if your financial advisor is calling you abruptly in panic mode in reaction to blather from cable news, you need a new financial advisor.
posted by aught at 7:29 AM on November 10, 2016 [17 favorites]
This is not your AskMe (TINYA?), but IMHO your angry response is correct -- if your financial advisor is calling you abruptly in panic mode in reaction to blather from cable news, you need a new financial advisor.
posted by aught at 7:29 AM on November 10, 2016 [17 favorites]
Four years from now....
It has to be two years from now. Mid-terms have mattered so very much, Democrats/liberals/whatever can not just bank on getting the Presidency every 4 years. The last six years have clearly demonstrated with destructive force Congress can be to going forward.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:30 AM on November 10, 2016 [19 favorites]
It has to be two years from now. Mid-terms have mattered so very much, Democrats/liberals/whatever can not just bank on getting the Presidency every 4 years. The last six years have clearly demonstrated with destructive force Congress can be to going forward.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:30 AM on November 10, 2016 [19 favorites]
I just heard from the radio that New Zealand's immigration website suddenly jumped from 3000 hits a day to 70000. Lots of comments here about leaving Trump's America too.
Now I think I've figured out his plan to build a wall and have the Mexicans pay for it.
posted by adept256 at 7:30 AM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
Now I think I've figured out his plan to build a wall and have the Mexicans pay for it.
posted by adept256 at 7:30 AM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
Can someone give me a definition of elitist that would make this statement make any sense?
Elitist, n. A liberal currently in power, or supporting those who are, whose political positions Glenn Greenwald disagrees with.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 7:30 AM on November 10, 2016 [10 favorites]
Elitist, n. A liberal currently in power, or supporting those who are, whose political positions Glenn Greenwald disagrees with.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 7:30 AM on November 10, 2016 [10 favorites]
Students yelling 'cotton picker,' heiling Hitler at this local school
posted by Talez at 7:30 AM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by Talez at 7:30 AM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
What can I do to help protect people who will be threatened by this?
posted by Gymnopedist at 7:31 AM on November 10, 2016
posted by Gymnopedist at 7:31 AM on November 10, 2016
So the silver-spoon private school brat son of a multi-millionaire who never worked a real day in his life and lives in a gold-plated palace is *not* elite?
No, he's the con man who swindled millions of people using an "elite" straw-person to rile them up.
posted by aught at 7:33 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
No, he's the con man who swindled millions of people using an "elite" straw-person to rile them up.
posted by aught at 7:33 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
An attorney friend of mine has created a PN-type Facebook group for organizing. If people want to hit me up, I've put my FB link in my profile.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:33 AM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:33 AM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
This is not your AskMe (TINYA?), but IMHO your angry response is correct -- if your financial advisor is calling you abruptly in panic mode in reaction to blather from cable news, you need a new financial advisor.
Aught, he is a great financial adviser and this was about politics. They do have no idea what's going to happen, which means we wait and see and be on high alert, not DUMP ALL YOUR STOCK AND BUY GOLD. But he was not reassuring about the long term stability or trend of the market, as well he shouldn't have been.
posted by lydhre at 7:33 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
Aught, he is a great financial adviser and this was about politics. They do have no idea what's going to happen, which means we wait and see and be on high alert, not DUMP ALL YOUR STOCK AND BUY GOLD. But he was not reassuring about the long term stability or trend of the market, as well he shouldn't have been.
posted by lydhre at 7:33 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
shouldn't the Democratic leadership be getting out ahead of a potential Gingrich or Palin in the cabinet by signaling that they will filibuster with extreme prejudice?
posted by any major dude at 7:33 AM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by any major dude at 7:33 AM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
What can I do to help protect people who will be threatened by this?
Let them know you're there for them, first of all.
posted by drezdn at 7:33 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
Why aren't the school administrators punishing the students who do this? It's not free speech to call your classmates slurs. Stop holding goddamn assemblies about tolerance and start punishing the students who are marching around shouting "white power", etc.
Even in the right wing suburb where I went to school, that behavior on any visible, systemic, documented level would never, ever have been tolerated by the administration. It sure wasn't that kids weren't racist and homophobic, it was that using those words loudly where adults could hear was punished.
posted by Frowner at 7:33 AM on November 10, 2016 [23 favorites]
Even in the right wing suburb where I went to school, that behavior on any visible, systemic, documented level would never, ever have been tolerated by the administration. It sure wasn't that kids weren't racist and homophobic, it was that using those words loudly where adults could hear was punished.
posted by Frowner at 7:33 AM on November 10, 2016 [23 favorites]
KKK on the bridge in Mebane, NC this morning 😪
posted by Talez at 7:33 AM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Talez at 7:33 AM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
Thank you for posting these, Talez. I want this shit spread far and wide. With all of the hand-wringing about liberal elites and the poor downtrodden whites in the Rust Belt, I don't want this forgotten.
These are the children of these white people, and this is what they've taken away as the lesson of the Trump campaign. I don't give a good goddamn what their parents might bleat about it being about economics, not racism/sexism, but the proof is in the action. These kids absorbed the real message, and they're showing it loud and clear.
We can't let this be taken out on the bodies of racial minorities, women, trans people, gay people, immigrants....
posted by Salieri at 7:34 AM on November 10, 2016 [14 favorites]
These are the children of these white people, and this is what they've taken away as the lesson of the Trump campaign. I don't give a good goddamn what their parents might bleat about it being about economics, not racism/sexism, but the proof is in the action. These kids absorbed the real message, and they're showing it loud and clear.
We can't let this be taken out on the bodies of racial minorities, women, trans people, gay people, immigrants....
posted by Salieri at 7:34 AM on November 10, 2016 [14 favorites]
In case anyone has missed it, there is an AskMe (Understanding why Trump won) looking for good analysis, preferably quantitative, of how Trump won. There are some interesting non-pundit, non-anecdotal links in there.
posted by Kabanos at 7:34 AM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Kabanos at 7:34 AM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
Also, there were incorrect early reports of final vote tallies, but ultimately Clinton underperformed Obama by 2.5 million votes (4%), while Trump only outperformed Romney by 300k votes (0.5%).
What it comes down to time and time again is the left just not bothering to vote and despite the shitshow that I expect the next two years will bring, I expect the usual mediocre midterm Democratic turnout again. There was absolutely voter disenfranchisement but not that prevented millions of voters from turning up. There was a massive GOTV effort, free rides, celebrity parades to the polls, and people still wouldn't show up.
posted by Candleman at 7:36 AM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
What it comes down to time and time again is the left just not bothering to vote and despite the shitshow that I expect the next two years will bring, I expect the usual mediocre midterm Democratic turnout again. There was absolutely voter disenfranchisement but not that prevented millions of voters from turning up. There was a massive GOTV effort, free rides, celebrity parades to the polls, and people still wouldn't show up.
posted by Candleman at 7:36 AM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
Nothing is funny to me anymore. I care not a lick for this country or it's people. America is valueless and worse than empty. Half the people are ignorant racists, a third don't give a shit and the rest are shopping. There was a brief moment, I can't recall when..some years ago when I felt a little ping of what could be called pride. America stood for something briefly. I can't recall because it never happened. This country has had so many chances, at goodness even greatness and it came to nothing. My father was smart man, moral and decent and military. A child of WW2 he was more or less a single issue voter; strong military. He didn't vote party he voted for the man. He could read a man, like I said he was smart. Trump would be ridiculous to him, absurd that this immoral clown could be commander and chief of the armed forces. I miss him but glad he's not here to witness this catastrophe, this national mistake. Like me he'd express a brief, succinct opinion then take a walk..by himself.
Humor is gone. There is nothing funny about this. I will never laugh about this. That's the worst part for me. I could always, no matter how lame brained or insulting something was...just give me a laugh, a good shot of satire. Anything, nothing..don't even try.
posted by judson at 7:36 AM on November 10, 2016 [9 favorites]
Humor is gone. There is nothing funny about this. I will never laugh about this. That's the worst part for me. I could always, no matter how lame brained or insulting something was...just give me a laugh, a good shot of satire. Anything, nothing..don't even try.
posted by judson at 7:36 AM on November 10, 2016 [9 favorites]
Is there any chance the electoral college will turn faithless in Dec?
posted by slipthought at 9:08 AM on November 10 [1 favorite +] [!]
Even if we tried to turn electors and it worked (and it would probably not, I imagine many, even if queasy about Trump, believe in sacred trusts and so on), if we burned that bridge, we would never have a sane election again, because the Republicans would use the precedent to invalidate every future Democratic winner in a close race.
posted by aught at 6:50 AM on November 10 [+] [!]
Good. Turning the EC to prevent Trump creates bipartisan motivation to tear it down. Win-win.
posted by baltimoretim at 7:36 AM on November 10, 2016 [13 favorites]
posted by slipthought at 9:08 AM on November 10 [1 favorite +] [!]
Even if we tried to turn electors and it worked (and it would probably not, I imagine many, even if queasy about Trump, believe in sacred trusts and so on), if we burned that bridge, we would never have a sane election again, because the Republicans would use the precedent to invalidate every future Democratic winner in a close race.
posted by aught at 6:50 AM on November 10 [+] [!]
Good. Turning the EC to prevent Trump creates bipartisan motivation to tear it down. Win-win.
posted by baltimoretim at 7:36 AM on November 10, 2016 [13 favorites]
I just can't see one more oblivious white person wondering why people are upset. I just can't see one more smug white person say they didn't protest Obama. I just can't see one more excited white person talk about how elated they and their friends were on election night, that they hugged each other so much and that's what love winning feels like. I just can't see one more falsely conciliatory white person tell minorities to shut up, they're going to be fine, as if the president elect hasn't spent over a year campaigning on the main plank that they won't be, and as if we haven't ALREADY seen so many horrific acts that I've already lost count.
Honestly I just can't see one more white person. That's hard though, cuz mirrors exist.
posted by yellowbinder at 7:37 AM on November 10, 2016 [32 favorites]
Honestly I just can't see one more white person. That's hard though, cuz mirrors exist.
posted by yellowbinder at 7:37 AM on November 10, 2016 [32 favorites]
What it comes down to time and time again is the left just not bothering to vote
And, you know, the voting rights act being gone.
posted by drezdn at 7:38 AM on November 10, 2016 [33 favorites]
And, you know, the voting rights act being gone.
posted by drezdn at 7:38 AM on November 10, 2016 [33 favorites]
Yeah. I don't see any need to blame on apathy what we can credit to suppression.
posted by maxsparber at 7:39 AM on November 10, 2016 [15 favorites]
posted by maxsparber at 7:39 AM on November 10, 2016 [15 favorites]
KKK on the bridge in Mebane, NC this morning 😪
If you read down it looks like it wasn't the KKK.
Snopes.
Still a victory march but not a KKK one
. But the photograph doesn't depict the KKK marching in Mebane, nor was it taken on 9 November 2016. It instead depicts a group of conservatives who were carrying American, Gadsden, and Christian flags, which some viewers of the grainy picture mistook for robes.
Burlington Times News reporter Natalie Janicello confirmed the picture was taken in the evening hours on 8 November 2016, and that none of the people who were rallying claimed to be associated with the KKK.
posted by Jalliah at 7:40 AM on November 10, 2016
If you read down it looks like it wasn't the KKK.
Snopes.
Still a victory march but not a KKK one
. But the photograph doesn't depict the KKK marching in Mebane, nor was it taken on 9 November 2016. It instead depicts a group of conservatives who were carrying American, Gadsden, and Christian flags, which some viewers of the grainy picture mistook for robes.
Burlington Times News reporter Natalie Janicello confirmed the picture was taken in the evening hours on 8 November 2016, and that none of the people who were rallying claimed to be associated with the KKK.
posted by Jalliah at 7:40 AM on November 10, 2016
Talez: That picture was a hoax.
Oh thank god. One less piece of deplorability. It's not much but I'll take it.
posted by Talez at 7:40 AM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
Oh thank god. One less piece of deplorability. It's not much but I'll take it.
posted by Talez at 7:40 AM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
Has anyone seen a list compiling resources that point leftist towards organizations and causes that will seek to resist trump's administration? I need a project.
posted by codacorolla at 7:40 AM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by codacorolla at 7:40 AM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
Polifact has more details about the picture, including a link to the article by the reporter on the bridge that Snopes mentions.
That being said, from the Snopes link:
A representative from the Loyal White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan contacted us to say the group was indeed not involved with the bridge event depicted in the photograph. They are planning their own Trump victory march on 3 December 2016 in North Carolina.
So there will be a Klan march, that's just not a picture of one.
posted by papercrane at 7:40 AM on November 10, 2016 [8 favorites]
That being said, from the Snopes link:
A representative from the Loyal White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan contacted us to say the group was indeed not involved with the bridge event depicted in the photograph. They are planning their own Trump victory march on 3 December 2016 in North Carolina.
So there will be a Klan march, that's just not a picture of one.
posted by papercrane at 7:40 AM on November 10, 2016 [8 favorites]
There was madness in any direction, at any hour. If not across the Bay, then up the Golden Gate or down 101 to Los Altos or La Honda.… You could strike sparks anywhere. There was a fantastic universal sense that whatever we were doing was right, that we were winning.…
And that, I think, was the handle—that sense of inevitable victory over the forces of Old and Evil. Not in any mean or military sense; we didn't need that. Our energy would simply prevail. There was no point in fighting—on our side or theirs. We had all the momentum; we were riding the crest of a high and beautiful wave.…
So now, less than five years later, you can go up on a steep hill in Las Vegas and look West, and with the right kind of eyes you can almost see the high-water mark—that place where the wave finally broke and rolled back.
posted by TedW at 7:41 AM on November 10, 2016 [18 favorites]
And that, I think, was the handle—that sense of inevitable victory over the forces of Old and Evil. Not in any mean or military sense; we didn't need that. Our energy would simply prevail. There was no point in fighting—on our side or theirs. We had all the momentum; we were riding the crest of a high and beautiful wave.…
So now, less than five years later, you can go up on a steep hill in Las Vegas and look West, and with the right kind of eyes you can almost see the high-water mark—that place where the wave finally broke and rolled back.
posted by TedW at 7:41 AM on November 10, 2016 [18 favorites]
I think it's useful to distinguish apathy from suppression: one comes from a place of privilege and one comes from a place of disenfranchisement. These are two different fronts to fight on.
posted by lydhre at 7:41 AM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by lydhre at 7:41 AM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
Basically everyone who has been seething about her win since the primaries is now taking this opportunity to trot out all the shit one can easily refute via Snopes. "She's corrupt! Bernie would have won, 100%! Emails! EMAILS!"
What exactly can be easily refuted via Snopes? That DNC is corrupt? That they, led by Debbie Wasserman Schultz undermined Sanders campaign to nominate Clinton? That NYT and other Democratic establishment media continuously ran biased coverage of Sanders campaign to ensure a Clinton nomination? That Donna Brazile sent debate questions to Clinton? Which ones of these are lies?
What would Snopes refute out of this for example?
posted by shala at 7:42 AM on November 10, 2016 [8 favorites]
What exactly can be easily refuted via Snopes? That DNC is corrupt? That they, led by Debbie Wasserman Schultz undermined Sanders campaign to nominate Clinton? That NYT and other Democratic establishment media continuously ran biased coverage of Sanders campaign to ensure a Clinton nomination? That Donna Brazile sent debate questions to Clinton? Which ones of these are lies?
What would Snopes refute out of this for example?
posted by shala at 7:42 AM on November 10, 2016 [8 favorites]
Fred Clark: White evangelicalism is white nationalism
Fred Clark's Twitter is worth following too:
Fred Clark's Twitter is worth following too:
Fred Clark @SlacktivistFred 18 hours agoposted by Catseye at 7:42 AM on November 10, 2016 [44 favorites]
If you're part of a Trump-supporting white evangelical congregation, don't just leave. Get kicked out. Go full Micaiah, head high.
Fred Clark @SlacktivistFred 18 hours ago
Seriously, make it memorable. Make it a story you'll tell with pride and they'll tell with horror for years to come. Make it matter.
Fred Clark @SlacktivistFred 18 hours ago
Don't just be a mysterious part of some inscrutable statistic about declining attendance or Millennial outreach. Let 'em know what and why.
Why aren't the school administrators punishing the students who do this?
The news story I saw about this quoted from a letter from the principal stating they were investigating who was behind the reported slurs and insults, and that the school would not tolerate these sorts of actions. (One may or may not take wishy-washy statements from such administrators seriously, or might well be dubious that they will be effective, of course, but they at least made public statements of condemnation.)
posted by aught at 7:42 AM on November 10, 2016
The news story I saw about this quoted from a letter from the principal stating they were investigating who was behind the reported slurs and insults, and that the school would not tolerate these sorts of actions. (One may or may not take wishy-washy statements from such administrators seriously, or might well be dubious that they will be effective, of course, but they at least made public statements of condemnation.)
posted by aught at 7:42 AM on November 10, 2016
If you're part of a Trump-supporting white evangelical congregation, don't just leave. Get kicked out. Go full Micaiah, head high.
As a person who is not part of a Trump-support white evangelical congregation, I'm glad I get to go to a church run by lesbians who solicit donations for Syrian refugees. I'm going to church this Sunday feeling like they will help me (and the us) through this.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 7:45 AM on November 10, 2016 [12 favorites]
As a person who is not part of a Trump-support white evangelical congregation, I'm glad I get to go to a church run by lesbians who solicit donations for Syrian refugees. I'm going to church this Sunday feeling like they will help me (and the us) through this.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 7:45 AM on November 10, 2016 [12 favorites]
Spare a thought for Obama this morning as he meets with Trump. I outlined it more here, but I deeply hope that he'll try to influence Trump in some way, not just pose for a photo op. Convince the former Democrat and very unconventional Republican that he shouldn't just bend to the will of the GOP Congress. Encourage him to give power to his daughter and son-in-law (both Democrats) rather than the alternative. Maybe Bernie can get in there too. Convince him that repealing Dodd-Frank is exactly the opposite of what he promised his base.
I also think that there needs to be some kind of information campaign whenever Trump does something antithetical to his campaign promises, aimed at his base. For instance, we need to advertise the fact that he's considering an ex-Goldman Sachs banker as his Treasury Secretary. Someone needs to pay a bucketload of money to those Macedonian teens. I hope David Brock is paying attention.
posted by acidic at 7:47 AM on November 10, 2016 [8 favorites]
I also think that there needs to be some kind of information campaign whenever Trump does something antithetical to his campaign promises, aimed at his base. For instance, we need to advertise the fact that he's considering an ex-Goldman Sachs banker as his Treasury Secretary. Someone needs to pay a bucketload of money to those Macedonian teens. I hope David Brock is paying attention.
posted by acidic at 7:47 AM on November 10, 2016 [8 favorites]
A representative from the Loyal White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan contacted us to say the group was indeed not involved with the bridge event depicted in the photograph. They are planning their own Trump victory march on 3 December 2016 in North Carolina.
And this is one of the reasons that the protests that are happening matters. They may not have an absolute clear message or even a clear plan but it matters. It's not just about saying 'you're not my President." It's saying 'We don't agree with (type of shit that I posted above) that we know this Presidency is based on and be seen doing it.
Like don't cede the streets to the KKK and their ilk.
posted by Jalliah at 7:47 AM on November 10, 2016 [18 favorites]
And this is one of the reasons that the protests that are happening matters. They may not have an absolute clear message or even a clear plan but it matters. It's not just about saying 'you're not my President." It's saying 'We don't agree with (type of shit that I posted above) that we know this Presidency is based on and be seen doing it.
Like don't cede the streets to the KKK and their ilk.
posted by Jalliah at 7:47 AM on November 10, 2016 [18 favorites]
Side note: after doing their best during the Soviet era to commit cultural genocide in the Baltics, just the other year the ethnic Russian interlopers in Latvia narrowly lost a plebiscite to declare Russian an equal state language alongside Latvian.
You mean an ethnic minority was denied an opportunity to conduct official business in their native language? Those interlopers!
posted by shala at 7:47 AM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
You mean an ethnic minority was denied an opportunity to conduct official business in their native language? Those interlopers!
posted by shala at 7:47 AM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
For those of you looking for a place to escape to try my hometown:
A Guide for Americans Moving To Australia to Escape President Trump – Perth
And to make sure you fit in: Shit Perth People Say
posted by Talez at 7:48 AM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
A Guide for Americans Moving To Australia to Escape President Trump – Perth
And to make sure you fit in: Shit Perth People Say
posted by Talez at 7:48 AM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
foraging for food and water in the ashes of a nuclear winter?
posted by entropicamericana at 7:51 AM on November 10, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by entropicamericana at 7:51 AM on November 10, 2016 [11 favorites]
The bridge thing is fake but this is real: KKK of North Carolina Announces Donald Trump Victory Parade
North Carolina: Keepin' It Classy Since 1866™
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:52 AM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
North Carolina: Keepin' It Classy Since 1866™
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:52 AM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
So... what are the plans for 2018?
Mine is to fight like hell to keep Curt Schilling out of MA's senate seat.
posted by Talez at 7:52 AM on November 10, 2016 [12 favorites]
Mine is to fight like hell to keep Curt Schilling out of MA's senate seat.
posted by Talez at 7:52 AM on November 10, 2016 [12 favorites]
Seattle Mayor vows city will remain 'sanctuary city', which under Trump's plan means all federal funds will be cut off from the city.
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 7:54 AM on November 10, 2016 [34 favorites]
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 7:54 AM on November 10, 2016 [34 favorites]
Thanks for the Snopes link about the march, Johnny Wallflower. I might be in NC on that day and this whole "undisclosed location" thing is very disconcerting.
As for violence against gender-nonconforming people whose presentation leans more masculine, that's always been a thing. Not as much as violence against transfeminine folks, undoubtedly, but "at less risk" has never meant "safe".
May we all stay safe.
posted by inconstant at 7:54 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
As for violence against gender-nonconforming people whose presentation leans more masculine, that's always been a thing. Not as much as violence against transfeminine folks, undoubtedly, but "at less risk" has never meant "safe".
May we all stay safe.
posted by inconstant at 7:54 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
I get so angry at the posts from people who say that now The People Have Spoken and we all need to go along and get along. Excuse me if I don't feel like holding hands with the people who tweeted me lovely messages that I need to take a one-way trip into the oven. That's not how things work.
posted by SisterHavana at 7:54 AM on November 10, 2016 [44 favorites]
posted by SisterHavana at 7:54 AM on November 10, 2016 [44 favorites]
Collection of Cover Pages from across the world on Trump winning the election
Still can't believe it.
posted by Megustalations at 7:55 AM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
Still can't believe it.
posted by Megustalations at 7:55 AM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
I hate to say it, but people probably need to start thinking about what they're going to do to prepare for the mid-terms. We can't count on the existing Democratic party to organize itself effectively, we have to do it ourselves, and that's going to take time.
My first step is going to be applying for citizenship. I've done a lot of organizing over the last 18 months, but have always been a bit shy because I only have a green card.
posted by Coventry at 7:55 AM on November 10, 2016 [22 favorites]
My first step is going to be applying for citizenship. I've done a lot of organizing over the last 18 months, but have always been a bit shy because I only have a green card.
posted by Coventry at 7:55 AM on November 10, 2016 [22 favorites]
My coworkers are not racist. They are basically apathetic about racial issues because it does not directly effect them
This comment is stunning. They are racist. They are racist.
posted by zutalors! at 7:56 AM on November 10, 2016 [100 favorites]
This comment is stunning. They are racist. They are racist.
posted by zutalors! at 7:56 AM on November 10, 2016 [100 favorites]
So... what are the plans for 2018?
Mostly to trade water with Gas Town and the Bullet Farm along the Fury Road.
posted by maxsparber at 7:57 AM on November 10, 2016 [34 favorites]
Mostly to trade water with Gas Town and the Bullet Farm along the Fury Road.
posted by maxsparber at 7:57 AM on November 10, 2016 [34 favorites]
Maybe the protests would make more sense to me if they focused on some specific change, like getting rid of the electoral college. It seems to me that for people who don't already hate Trump (assuming that those are the intended audience), "our candidate won, but the system is unfair" would be a more effective message than "our candidate lost, but we don't like the winner." The former is highlighting a genuinely unfair electoral system, but the latter just sounds like the protesters are being sore losers.
The President Elect is a self-professed tax and contract cheat and likely rapist. Since all of that came up during the election, I don't think it's unreasonable to call for investigation and impeachment.
The President Elect has promised to shut down cities, organize a deportation dragnet measured by raw numbers, and to erase many LGBTQ rights and benefits on the first day. Protesting against those promised actions now is hardly premature.
I'm a broken record on Barber this week, but the value of moral protest isn't measured by a clock or whether those problems are immediately fixable. In many cases they're not. The value is measured on the morality of the principles expressed.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 7:58 AM on November 10, 2016 [20 favorites]
The President Elect is a self-professed tax and contract cheat and likely rapist. Since all of that came up during the election, I don't think it's unreasonable to call for investigation and impeachment.
The President Elect has promised to shut down cities, organize a deportation dragnet measured by raw numbers, and to erase many LGBTQ rights and benefits on the first day. Protesting against those promised actions now is hardly premature.
I'm a broken record on Barber this week, but the value of moral protest isn't measured by a clock or whether those problems are immediately fixable. In many cases they're not. The value is measured on the morality of the principles expressed.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 7:58 AM on November 10, 2016 [20 favorites]
No, you're trying not to cry at your desk reading the 2015 Ryan budget.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:59 AM on November 10, 2016
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:59 AM on November 10, 2016
Dear Republicans, You know how you felt about the possibility that Obama would take your guns away? It's like that for us on the left right now, except it's our family, friends and neighbors, and Trump actually said he planned to do it.
posted by drezdn at 7:59 AM on November 10, 2016 [62 favorites]
posted by drezdn at 7:59 AM on November 10, 2016 [62 favorites]
Yeah, I don't think you really get to say The People Have Spoken when you've lost the popular vote. Same to the "well gee let's unite behind the new president" no no no no fuck no I will never.
Anyway yeah to midterms organizing. I know in Florida redistricting happens in 2020 so the next couple election cycles are very important at the state level. I really want to get involved volunteering with local/state level politics after this mess. If there's a way to methodically eliminate the Republican party from existence, I want to help.
posted by Gymnopedist at 8:00 AM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
Anyway yeah to midterms organizing. I know in Florida redistricting happens in 2020 so the next couple election cycles are very important at the state level. I really want to get involved volunteering with local/state level politics after this mess. If there's a way to methodically eliminate the Republican party from existence, I want to help.
posted by Gymnopedist at 8:00 AM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
Let's be clear: the bridge thing is real, it's just KKK-agreeing randos and not the Klan proper. It's still scum screaming in victory, just not that specific scum organization.
posted by Pope Guilty at 8:01 AM on November 10, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by Pope Guilty at 8:01 AM on November 10, 2016 [10 favorites]
shouldn't the Democratic leadership be getting out ahead of a potential Gingrich or Palin in the cabinet by signaling that they will filibuster with extreme prejudice?
Well, there's a non-zero chance that the Republican majority will eliminate the filibuster, so making a big stink about it now is "red flag to a bull" territory. More likely there are some quiet behind-the-scenes discussions with possible Republican allies over the issue of keeping the filibuster and/or coming up with not-batshit cabinet possibilities.
posted by soundguy99 at 8:01 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
Well, there's a non-zero chance that the Republican majority will eliminate the filibuster, so making a big stink about it now is "red flag to a bull" territory. More likely there are some quiet behind-the-scenes discussions with possible Republican allies over the issue of keeping the filibuster and/or coming up with not-batshit cabinet possibilities.
posted by soundguy99 at 8:01 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
Day 1 in Trump’s America (Medium roundup)
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:03 AM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:03 AM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
Say we should all come together and be civil one more time, motherfucker.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:05 AM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:05 AM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
For all the sniping going on among Democrats and those of us watching horrified from abroad, we seem to be losing sight of a clear fact: Trump didn't win over the people who voted for Obama, those people just stayed home or were kept from the polls by voter suppression. Trump just turned out the same old Republican base that voted for Romney in 2012, McCain in 2008, and Bush in 2004 and 2000. Now 2016 has proved what the radical left has been screaming about my entire adult life: the GOP is a party dominated by crypto-fascists just waiting for the opportunity to show their true colours.
There is no better example of this than what happened in Utah. What was it that finally broke the back of the McMullin campaign? A robocall from some nobody literally identifying himself as a "white nationalist" accusing Evan McMullin of being gay. Fully half the number of people who voted for polished, genteel, Mormon Mitt Romney in Utah voted for full-throated fascism. And not just Franco type fascism, the armbands and gas chambers type of fascism. McMullin was relegated to a distant also-ran, gathering less than a third of the votes Trump got. For the diehard Republicans in Utah, we now know unambigiously where their loyalties lie: not with high-minded principles of limited government, not with tribal party affiliations, but with pure, seething hatred.
All Trump did differently this time was be brazen enough to rip the mask off the monster that the Southern Strategy had created. The problem was never Trump. The problem was the Republican base. And now, predictably, the gutless remoras like Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell are attaching themselves to Trump's lily-white underbelly because it smells like a meal ticket, and all the Serious People in the GOP caucus that we were told were worth negotiating with have instantly become fascist sympathizers or toadies.
So now after failing Democrats and failing the entire world once again, the smug liberal establishment that lectured the rabble on the left about civility, and bipartisanship and compromise need to go away forever. The absolute worst of this was on full display with the back-patting nonsense going around about raising money for the North Carolina GOP after the firebombing. I'm not defending what the arsonists did, but they were right about one thing: the North Carolina GOP are a bunch of Nazis, and you can't fight fair against Nazis. This was obvious right from the beginning of the Obama presidency, where despite being humiliated at the polls and holding only the filibuster they prevented the Democrats from doing anything. The war on the voting rights act, the actions they took gerrymandering all the way back to Tom Delay during the Bush years, that was a full on assault on democracy itself.
It's fascists, not normal conservatives, who show total disregard for democratic norms, institutions and values. They deliberately created a rolling constitutional crisis that ground the functions of government to a standstill for eight years because a black man was in the white house. They were always fascists, and it was always a mistake to assume that they would ever compromise or that a high-minded insistence on civility would accomplish anything. And even now, pundits impregnable to facts like Jonathan Chait are still, after all we've seen, lecturing the uncivil protesters and leftists about the need to be polite and not challenge Trump's legitimacy, and work across the aisle. These feckless losers who laughed at and encouraged Trump's candidacy back in the primaries, and who assured us that Clinton was too savvy to lose, they need to be ignored forever.
posted by [expletive deleted] at 8:05 AM on November 10, 2016 [73 favorites]
There is no better example of this than what happened in Utah. What was it that finally broke the back of the McMullin campaign? A robocall from some nobody literally identifying himself as a "white nationalist" accusing Evan McMullin of being gay. Fully half the number of people who voted for polished, genteel, Mormon Mitt Romney in Utah voted for full-throated fascism. And not just Franco type fascism, the armbands and gas chambers type of fascism. McMullin was relegated to a distant also-ran, gathering less than a third of the votes Trump got. For the diehard Republicans in Utah, we now know unambigiously where their loyalties lie: not with high-minded principles of limited government, not with tribal party affiliations, but with pure, seething hatred.
All Trump did differently this time was be brazen enough to rip the mask off the monster that the Southern Strategy had created. The problem was never Trump. The problem was the Republican base. And now, predictably, the gutless remoras like Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell are attaching themselves to Trump's lily-white underbelly because it smells like a meal ticket, and all the Serious People in the GOP caucus that we were told were worth negotiating with have instantly become fascist sympathizers or toadies.
So now after failing Democrats and failing the entire world once again, the smug liberal establishment that lectured the rabble on the left about civility, and bipartisanship and compromise need to go away forever. The absolute worst of this was on full display with the back-patting nonsense going around about raising money for the North Carolina GOP after the firebombing. I'm not defending what the arsonists did, but they were right about one thing: the North Carolina GOP are a bunch of Nazis, and you can't fight fair against Nazis. This was obvious right from the beginning of the Obama presidency, where despite being humiliated at the polls and holding only the filibuster they prevented the Democrats from doing anything. The war on the voting rights act, the actions they took gerrymandering all the way back to Tom Delay during the Bush years, that was a full on assault on democracy itself.
It's fascists, not normal conservatives, who show total disregard for democratic norms, institutions and values. They deliberately created a rolling constitutional crisis that ground the functions of government to a standstill for eight years because a black man was in the white house. They were always fascists, and it was always a mistake to assume that they would ever compromise or that a high-minded insistence on civility would accomplish anything. And even now, pundits impregnable to facts like Jonathan Chait are still, after all we've seen, lecturing the uncivil protesters and leftists about the need to be polite and not challenge Trump's legitimacy, and work across the aisle. These feckless losers who laughed at and encouraged Trump's candidacy back in the primaries, and who assured us that Clinton was too savvy to lose, they need to be ignored forever.
posted by [expletive deleted] at 8:05 AM on November 10, 2016 [73 favorites]
shouldn't the Democratic leadership be getting out ahead of a potential Gingrich or Palin in the cabinet by signaling that they will filibuster with extreme prejudice?
Not yet. There's been much discussion about whether Republican Senators will even keep the filibuster for the 115th Congress. Although, traditionally, the Senate's rules carry over from one Senate to the next, (and thus any proposed change to the filibuster could itself be filibustered), an argument can be made (and has been made, at length), that this is unconstitutional and that each Senate has the power to set its own rules at the outset of the Senate, unconstrained by any rules set by previous Senates — the so-called "Constitutional Option."
Which is to say, if Republican Senators wanted to eliminate the filibuster for the 115th Congress, they probably could. Whether they will is an open question. On the one hand, it would give them more power in the short term on issues on which they were unified. On the other, it might weaken them in the long term, given that a majority-Democratic Senate is likely at some point; plus, in the upcoming Senate (which appears likely to be 52R-48D), a primarily Democratic-supported measure could be passed by flipping only 3 Republican Senators, with no opportunity for the remaining Republicans to filibuster.
So bottom line, the Democratic leadership should not do anything at this time that would tip Republicans towards eliminating the filibuster, such as signaling that they would filibuster a Gingrich or Palin nomination. Wait until the Senate is seated on Jan. 3, and adopts its rules for this session, hopefully including the filibuster; only then should Democrats threaten to filibuster specific things.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 8:06 AM on November 10, 2016 [7 favorites]
Not yet. There's been much discussion about whether Republican Senators will even keep the filibuster for the 115th Congress. Although, traditionally, the Senate's rules carry over from one Senate to the next, (and thus any proposed change to the filibuster could itself be filibustered), an argument can be made (and has been made, at length), that this is unconstitutional and that each Senate has the power to set its own rules at the outset of the Senate, unconstrained by any rules set by previous Senates — the so-called "Constitutional Option."
Which is to say, if Republican Senators wanted to eliminate the filibuster for the 115th Congress, they probably could. Whether they will is an open question. On the one hand, it would give them more power in the short term on issues on which they were unified. On the other, it might weaken them in the long term, given that a majority-Democratic Senate is likely at some point; plus, in the upcoming Senate (which appears likely to be 52R-48D), a primarily Democratic-supported measure could be passed by flipping only 3 Republican Senators, with no opportunity for the remaining Republicans to filibuster.
So bottom line, the Democratic leadership should not do anything at this time that would tip Republicans towards eliminating the filibuster, such as signaling that they would filibuster a Gingrich or Palin nomination. Wait until the Senate is seated on Jan. 3, and adopts its rules for this session, hopefully including the filibuster; only then should Democrats threaten to filibuster specific things.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 8:06 AM on November 10, 2016 [7 favorites]
Idea for Anti-Trump Hat: Bright Blue Hat that says "Make America Great Again" on the front (Says "Not My President" on the back for clarity).
posted by ishmael at 8:06 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by ishmael at 8:06 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
1. The filibuster for non-judicial appointments is already gone, and has been for a couple of years.
2. I wonder what the odds are of a "Nixon pardon" for Hillary, just to close that out?
3. Ditto on the odds of a Garland recess appointment between Congresses on January 3.
4. At least this also screws over the political future of ol' Ted Cruz. I wonder if he runs in 2020 anyway?
posted by Huffy Puffy at 8:08 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
2. I wonder what the odds are of a "Nixon pardon" for Hillary, just to close that out?
3. Ditto on the odds of a Garland recess appointment between Congresses on January 3.
4. At least this also screws over the political future of ol' Ted Cruz. I wonder if he runs in 2020 anyway?
posted by Huffy Puffy at 8:08 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
>> My coworkers are not racist. They are basically apathetic about racial issues because it does not directly effect them
> This comment is stunning. They are racist. They are racist.
This, right there, is how we lose the argument.
posted by kleinsteradikaleminderheit at 8:10 AM on November 10, 2016 [24 favorites]
> This comment is stunning. They are racist. They are racist.
This, right there, is how we lose the argument.
posted by kleinsteradikaleminderheit at 8:10 AM on November 10, 2016 [24 favorites]
As a general comment wow could I sure as fuck do without people saying Bernie Sanders would have won.
It was a foolish thing to say in the primaries and it remains so.
posted by aspersioncast at 8:11 AM on November 10, 2016 [39 favorites]
It was a foolish thing to say in the primaries and it remains so.
posted by aspersioncast at 8:11 AM on November 10, 2016 [39 favorites]
Not calling a spade a spade is how we lose the argument.
posted by entropicamericana at 8:11 AM on November 10, 2016 [36 favorites]
posted by entropicamericana at 8:11 AM on November 10, 2016 [36 favorites]
Everyone is racist. If you live in the US or Canada, you live on land stolen in a genocide, and you are the inheritors of wealth built by African slaves. Racism is in the air we breathe.
posted by [expletive deleted] at 8:12 AM on November 10, 2016 [34 favorites]
posted by [expletive deleted] at 8:12 AM on November 10, 2016 [34 favorites]
Not calling people you know little about names is the first step to not lose an argument.
posted by kleinsteradikaleminderheit at 8:13 AM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by kleinsteradikaleminderheit at 8:13 AM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
>> My coworkers are not racist. They are basically apathetic about racial issues because it does not directly effect them
> This comment is stunning. They are racist. They are racist.
This, right there, is how we lose the argument.
By talking about what racism actually is? I don't want to be part of a "we" that denies racism sorry.
posted by zutalors! at 8:13 AM on November 10, 2016 [40 favorites]
Not calling people you know little about names is the first step to not lose an argument.
Seems to have worked for them so far.
posted by Etrigan at 8:14 AM on November 10, 2016 [8 favorites]
Seems to have worked for them so far.
posted by Etrigan at 8:14 AM on November 10, 2016 [8 favorites]
CALLING SOMEONE A RACIST WHEN THEY DO/SAY RACIST THINGS THROUGH ACTION OR INACTION IS NOT CALLING ANYONE "NAMES"
posted by lydhre at 8:14 AM on November 10, 2016 [61 favorites]
posted by lydhre at 8:14 AM on November 10, 2016 [61 favorites]
A better strategy is to call things they do or say racist, but calling people racists when they are acting like racists is fair.
posted by [expletive deleted] at 8:15 AM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by [expletive deleted] at 8:15 AM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
But it would be good to point out they don't claim to be apathetic to assault or murder, and that these "racial issues" are the support of people who want to do that. To non-white people. And if adding the non-white people part suddenly makes that OK...
posted by Zalzidrax at 8:15 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Zalzidrax at 8:15 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
Here' a thing i'd like to see before the Obama administration is over: a pardon for every black person in prison for a nonviolent crime (like possession).
Wouldn't that be a nice Fuck You to the racists and to Trump.
posted by OHenryPacey at 8:15 AM on November 10, 2016 [18 favorites]
Wouldn't that be a nice Fuck You to the racists and to Trump.
posted by OHenryPacey at 8:15 AM on November 10, 2016 [18 favorites]
"the first step to defeating the fascists is to not call them fascists."
posted by entropicamericana at 8:15 AM on November 10, 2016 [21 favorites]
posted by entropicamericana at 8:15 AM on November 10, 2016 [21 favorites]
This, right there, is how we lose the argument.
Yes. The worst thing we can do is accurately name a thing. That's how you lose. By pointing out the plain truth of something.
posted by maxsparber at 8:15 AM on November 10, 2016 [37 favorites]
Yes. The worst thing we can do is accurately name a thing. That's how you lose. By pointing out the plain truth of something.
posted by maxsparber at 8:15 AM on November 10, 2016 [37 favorites]
My dad's latest: these people protesting are idiots because Trump's only been elected for one day and "nobody has any idea what he's going to do yet."
Um, he had a long campaign talking about it and put out a Day 1 Agenda and... "that's all just talk."
MY BRAIN, IT BURNS
posted by delfin at 8:16 AM on November 10, 2016 [8 favorites]
Um, he had a long campaign talking about it and put out a Day 1 Agenda and... "that's all just talk."
MY BRAIN, IT BURNS
posted by delfin at 8:16 AM on November 10, 2016 [8 favorites]
Mod note: We've been around this argument (over exactly what to say about Trump voters, are they racist) a hundred times, please let's not launch into it again
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 8:16 AM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 8:16 AM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
It's entirely possible that Trump's DOJ will try to put [Clinton] on trial.
Possible, but not terribly likely, I think; they'll have their hands full defending Trump, who has a number of pending legal actions against him. (Ditto for the House of Reps trying to explain why they won't impeach him when they threatened repeatedly to do the same to a President Clinton and couldn't hold enough Benghazi hearings in the past.) And something tells me that Clinton could probably find refuge overseas somewhere where they wouldn't extradite her to Trump's mob.
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:17 AM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
Possible, but not terribly likely, I think; they'll have their hands full defending Trump, who has a number of pending legal actions against him. (Ditto for the House of Reps trying to explain why they won't impeach him when they threatened repeatedly to do the same to a President Clinton and couldn't hold enough Benghazi hearings in the past.) And something tells me that Clinton could probably find refuge overseas somewhere where they wouldn't extradite her to Trump's mob.
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:17 AM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
It's entirely possible that Trump's DOJ will try to put her on trial.
I have very serious doubts that there will be any additional movement on Clinton's 'crimes' now that the GOP won. They never actually gave a shit about any of her 'crimes' and gave the game away that this was just political maneuvering on more than one occasion.
During this upcoming administration, I am anticipating crickets when American embassy workers in dangerous countries are killed - I doubt there will be 11 hours of hearing on Secretary Christie's failures to protect Americans abroad. I am anticipating Iraq War-level uninformed bloodlust as the country moves into open military conflict with, say, Iran. If there is a major terrorist attack, I anticipate that no Trump supporters will claim that he failed to keep America safe.
Because they don't actually give a shit about any of this. All the shit they suddenly cared about when Obama took office was just a fig leaf because open advocacy for white supremacy was considered a political non-starter. They give no shits about email deletions or servers (see: Bush II) or deaths of embassy workers (see: Reagan, Bush II administrations).
They won't put her on trial because they got what they wanted. It was never about justice.
posted by palindromic at 8:19 AM on November 10, 2016 [60 favorites]
I have very serious doubts that there will be any additional movement on Clinton's 'crimes' now that the GOP won. They never actually gave a shit about any of her 'crimes' and gave the game away that this was just political maneuvering on more than one occasion.
During this upcoming administration, I am anticipating crickets when American embassy workers in dangerous countries are killed - I doubt there will be 11 hours of hearing on Secretary Christie's failures to protect Americans abroad. I am anticipating Iraq War-level uninformed bloodlust as the country moves into open military conflict with, say, Iran. If there is a major terrorist attack, I anticipate that no Trump supporters will claim that he failed to keep America safe.
Because they don't actually give a shit about any of this. All the shit they suddenly cared about when Obama took office was just a fig leaf because open advocacy for white supremacy was considered a political non-starter. They give no shits about email deletions or servers (see: Bush II) or deaths of embassy workers (see: Reagan, Bush II administrations).
They won't put her on trial because they got what they wanted. It was never about justice.
posted by palindromic at 8:19 AM on November 10, 2016 [60 favorites]
It's entirely possible that Trump's DOJ will try to put [Clinton] on trial.
Possible, but not terribly likely, I think; they'll have their hands full defending Trump, who has a number of pending legal actions against him.
Not the DOJ's job. Granted, it probably won't stop them...
And then, what palindromic said. It was never about justice.
posted by Etrigan at 8:20 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
Possible, but not terribly likely, I think; they'll have their hands full defending Trump, who has a number of pending legal actions against him.
Not the DOJ's job. Granted, it probably won't stop them...
And then, what palindromic said. It was never about justice.
posted by Etrigan at 8:20 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
Yeah, but the party is now disorganized and at the mercy of rabid trump supporters.
posted by Zalzidrax at 8:20 AM on November 10, 2016
posted by Zalzidrax at 8:20 AM on November 10, 2016
The only way out, is through. Racism is America's persistently unaddressed original sin and we can't begin to deal with it until we openly acknowledge it. That process will hurt, and it should hurt, for white Americans. Part of that process is for white Americans to call out racism or even racist apathy when they see it, rather than choosing to turn away out of personal discomfort. Call it what you want, and don't use the word "racism" or "racist" if it's not an effective message (it most likely isn't), but don't turn away and avoid the argument altogether.
posted by scantee at 8:20 AM on November 10, 2016 [16 favorites]
posted by scantee at 8:20 AM on November 10, 2016 [16 favorites]
Do you want to fight the passive racists or enlighten them?
I like how there is always this voice saying, you know, we just have to be nice, we just have to find the right words, we just have to present the facts as gently as possible, and the people who have voted for the man who preached a campaign of undiluted hate will see the error of their ways.
I'm not out to convince anyone. I am out to use the tools of democracy to make sure that they cannot cobble together enough votes through their supposedly passive campaign of homophobia, racism, Islamophobia, antisemitism, and misogyny ever to enjoy another win.
I'm not going after the haters. I'm going after the broken mechanism that allowed the haters to win, despite the fact that they had a minority of the votes.
posted by maxsparber at 8:21 AM on November 10, 2016 [56 favorites]
I like how there is always this voice saying, you know, we just have to be nice, we just have to find the right words, we just have to present the facts as gently as possible, and the people who have voted for the man who preached a campaign of undiluted hate will see the error of their ways.
I'm not out to convince anyone. I am out to use the tools of democracy to make sure that they cannot cobble together enough votes through their supposedly passive campaign of homophobia, racism, Islamophobia, antisemitism, and misogyny ever to enjoy another win.
I'm not going after the haters. I'm going after the broken mechanism that allowed the haters to win, despite the fact that they had a minority of the votes.
posted by maxsparber at 8:21 AM on November 10, 2016 [56 favorites]
What hit me around 4:00 this morning was - Trump was right about what to do in his campaign. He concentrated on the states that made the difference, and that he was able to win.
I had a similar thought while thinking about the pre-8/11 criticism of Nate Silver "unskewing" the polls. What if v1 of this plan had already been unsuccessfully attempted in 2012? Despite all the polling evidence to the contrary, it was reported that Romney held on to the delusion that he was in the lead right up until election night.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 8:22 AM on November 10, 2016
I had a similar thought while thinking about the pre-8/11 criticism of Nate Silver "unskewing" the polls. What if v1 of this plan had already been unsuccessfully attempted in 2012? Despite all the polling evidence to the contrary, it was reported that Romney held on to the delusion that he was in the lead right up until election night.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 8:22 AM on November 10, 2016
They won't put her on trial because they got what they wanted. It was never about justice.
I agree, she has no power any more. That's what they wanted.
posted by zutalors! at 8:22 AM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
Here's an excerpt from an email I sent to my dad back in July:
Call people out on their shit. Often. Tacit acceptance of racism is still racism.
posted by phunniemee at 8:23 AM on November 10, 2016 [67 favorites]
I saw someone say on twitter the other day that "you don't have to be a racist to support Trump, you just have to be okay with racism," and boy is that true. Voting for Trump says to Muslim citizens, you don't have the right to feel safe in your home. To Latino citizens, you're a bunch of cheating dirty criminals. To women, that you'd better be pretty and keep your mouth shut. And Dad, if you think that's unfair, tough. Because that's what it's like for the folks out here who didn't make it into the select group of people Trump hasn't attacked yet. He's built his entire campaign around othering huge swathes of the American population, and it's depressing and scary how well that's worked to vault him to such popularity. The Republican party should be ashamed of itself that it's come to this.I'm glad I wrote that to him. I'm glad I called him out, and my only wish is that I had done it more strongly and more often, because he needs to know. When my parents call me in a few weeks and ask me when I'm flying in and I tell them I've made other plans for Christmas, I want them to know why.
Call people out on their shit. Often. Tacit acceptance of racism is still racism.
posted by phunniemee at 8:23 AM on November 10, 2016 [67 favorites]
Papa Kabaddi’s Bumper Fun List Of People Who Might Have Single-Handedly Prevented An Incompetent, Abusive Con-Artist From Becoming The Most Powerful Human Alive If They Had Only Swallowed Their Pride And Openly Endorsed The Competent Candidate
==========
Rupert Murdoch
Erick Erickson
George W. Bush
George H.W. Bush
Punished “Jeb!” Bush, A Fallen Legend
John Kasich
Mitt Romney
Bob Dole (maybe, do people like Bob Dole? Bob Dole likes Bob Dole)
Ted Cruz
Rick Perry
Newt Gingrich
Noted Vagina-Haver Carly Fiorina
Rand Paul
Ron Paul
That Guy Who Played Chachi
Chris Christie Who At Least Might Personally Benefit From This Clusterfuck
Noted Johnson-Haver Gary Johnson
Jill Stein Who Get This Actually Said Trump Would Be Preferable If You Can Believe That, A Supposedly Green Candidate Who Thinks It’s Cool The EPA Will Soon Be Headed By A Climate-Change Denier, Nice Work Buddy
Glenn Beck (Reformed)
Clint “My Oeuvre Doesn’t Accurately Depict How Much Of An Asshole I Am” Eastwood
Mr. Trump’s Least Preferred War Hero, John McCain
Lindsay Graham
Orrin Hatch On Skis
Bill O’Reilly
Brad Paisley Or Someone
Paul “P-Dawg” Ryan
Joe the Plumber
Larry the Cable Guy
Billy the Graham
Slavoj Žižek and His Funky Accelerationists
Donald Trump
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:23 AM on November 10, 2016 [40 favorites]
==========
Rupert Murdoch
Erick Erickson
George W. Bush
George H.W. Bush
Punished “Jeb!” Bush, A Fallen Legend
John Kasich
Mitt Romney
Bob Dole (maybe, do people like Bob Dole? Bob Dole likes Bob Dole)
Ted Cruz
Rick Perry
Newt Gingrich
Noted Vagina-Haver Carly Fiorina
Rand Paul
Ron Paul
That Guy Who Played Chachi
Chris Christie Who At Least Might Personally Benefit From This Clusterfuck
Noted Johnson-Haver Gary Johnson
Jill Stein Who Get This Actually Said Trump Would Be Preferable If You Can Believe That, A Supposedly Green Candidate Who Thinks It’s Cool The EPA Will Soon Be Headed By A Climate-Change Denier, Nice Work Buddy
Glenn Beck (Reformed)
Clint “My Oeuvre Doesn’t Accurately Depict How Much Of An Asshole I Am” Eastwood
Mr. Trump’s Least Preferred War Hero, John McCain
Lindsay Graham
Orrin Hatch On Skis
Bill O’Reilly
Brad Paisley Or Someone
Paul “P-Dawg” Ryan
Joe the Plumber
Larry the Cable Guy
Billy the Graham
Slavoj Žižek and His Funky Accelerationists
Donald Trump
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:23 AM on November 10, 2016 [40 favorites]
To be fair, I think Bernie Sanders shows pretty clearly that endorsing a candidate doesn't mean your supporters will follow your lead.
posted by inconstant at 8:26 AM on November 10, 2016 [15 favorites]
posted by inconstant at 8:26 AM on November 10, 2016 [15 favorites]
I'm not going after the haters. I'm going after the broken mechanism that allowed the haters to win, despite the fact that they had a minority of the votes.
I get that, and that's awesome, 'cause there's a lot to do and only so many of us that's gonna do it.
That said, while you work on the system, I'm going to get between the haters and whoever they're trying to hate, 'cause the whole reason my heart and my head swung to the left is because I can't stand to watch people being monsters to other people.
We all got jobs, and there's plenty to choose from.
posted by Mooski at 8:26 AM on November 10, 2016 [7 favorites]
I get that, and that's awesome, 'cause there's a lot to do and only so many of us that's gonna do it.
That said, while you work on the system, I'm going to get between the haters and whoever they're trying to hate, 'cause the whole reason my heart and my head swung to the left is because I can't stand to watch people being monsters to other people.
We all got jobs, and there's plenty to choose from.
posted by Mooski at 8:26 AM on November 10, 2016 [7 favorites]
I suspect he knows exactly what he's going to do...parade around state dinners with his wife, emboss "President Trump" on everything he can, and wrap the Lincoln Bedroom in gold. And let Pence actually do all the work.
This was one of my colleague's fears too.
I was thinking more about what I said upthread, where I responded to Garrison Keillor's "lay back in the buckwheat" stance. And y'all were correct to point out that it definitely comes across like "smug privileged liberal relaxes in his privilege". I took it differently, and maybe that was because it sounded similar, but not exactly, like a different thing that was in my own head.
So lemme try rewriting what's in my head. Here's the scenario I envision playing out - let's take the "wall on the border" as an example.
GOP Congress: Yay! So, we're in charge now!
DEM Congress: ...Yep, you sure are in charge.
GOP Congress: So we're gonna build that wall and get Mexico to pay for it!
DEM Congress: *shrug* if you say so.
GOP Congress: Yay! So...wait, HOW do we get Mexico to pay for it?
DEM Congress: Search me, dudes, this was your idea.
GOP Congress: Huh. ...Uh, how about we go ask him?
DEM Congress: (secretly smiling) Sure, why not try that.
GOP Congress: Okay....hey, Mexico, give us money for that wall!
Mexican government: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA no.
GOP Congress: ....wow. That didn't work.
DEM Congress: Well, gosh, isn't that interesting. (starts notebook called "2018 talking points")
GOP Congress: Shit....uh, maybe if we bribe them with something?
DEM Congress: What do you mean..."bribe"?
GOP Congress: Like, we offer to send them free tacos or something.
DEM Congress: (smothering laughter) One way to find out...(nudging each other and saying "watch this")
GOP Congress: Hey, guys! If you build that wall....tacos on us!
Mexico: ....Dude, fuck off.
GOP Congress: Wow, that didn't work either.
DEM Congress: ...Fancy that.
You know? Just sort of standing back and letting the GOP fall flat on their face over and over. But I'm not suggesting the Dems stay TOTALLY hands off:
GOP Congress: Hey, how about if we declared WAR on Mexico!
DEM Congress: Okay HOLD up, THAT'S a big fat no.
or -
GOP Congress: I got it, we'll round up all of the illegal immigrants and make THEM build it for nothing.
DEM Congress: Fuck that noise, no.
But otherwise...
GOP Congress: Fuck, how are we gonna make this happen?
DEM Congress: (munching popcorn) I dunno, dudes, this was your idea, I got nothing.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:26 AM on November 10, 2016 [56 favorites]
This was one of my colleague's fears too.
I was thinking more about what I said upthread, where I responded to Garrison Keillor's "lay back in the buckwheat" stance. And y'all were correct to point out that it definitely comes across like "smug privileged liberal relaxes in his privilege". I took it differently, and maybe that was because it sounded similar, but not exactly, like a different thing that was in my own head.
So lemme try rewriting what's in my head. Here's the scenario I envision playing out - let's take the "wall on the border" as an example.
GOP Congress: Yay! So, we're in charge now!
DEM Congress: ...Yep, you sure are in charge.
GOP Congress: So we're gonna build that wall and get Mexico to pay for it!
DEM Congress: *shrug* if you say so.
GOP Congress: Yay! So...wait, HOW do we get Mexico to pay for it?
DEM Congress: Search me, dudes, this was your idea.
GOP Congress: Huh. ...Uh, how about we go ask him?
DEM Congress: (secretly smiling) Sure, why not try that.
GOP Congress: Okay....hey, Mexico, give us money for that wall!
Mexican government: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA no.
GOP Congress: ....wow. That didn't work.
DEM Congress: Well, gosh, isn't that interesting. (starts notebook called "2018 talking points")
GOP Congress: Shit....uh, maybe if we bribe them with something?
DEM Congress: What do you mean..."bribe"?
GOP Congress: Like, we offer to send them free tacos or something.
DEM Congress: (smothering laughter) One way to find out...(nudging each other and saying "watch this")
GOP Congress: Hey, guys! If you build that wall....tacos on us!
Mexico: ....Dude, fuck off.
GOP Congress: Wow, that didn't work either.
DEM Congress: ...Fancy that.
You know? Just sort of standing back and letting the GOP fall flat on their face over and over. But I'm not suggesting the Dems stay TOTALLY hands off:
GOP Congress: Hey, how about if we declared WAR on Mexico!
DEM Congress: Okay HOLD up, THAT'S a big fat no.
or -
GOP Congress: I got it, we'll round up all of the illegal immigrants and make THEM build it for nothing.
DEM Congress: Fuck that noise, no.
But otherwise...
GOP Congress: Fuck, how are we gonna make this happen?
DEM Congress: (munching popcorn) I dunno, dudes, this was your idea, I got nothing.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:26 AM on November 10, 2016 [56 favorites]
To be fair, I think Bernie Sanders shows pretty clearly that endorsing a candidate doesn't mean your supporters will follow your lead.
But it was really a tiny number of people who needed to be influenced; Clinton won the popular vote after all.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:28 AM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
But it was really a tiny number of people who needed to be influenced; Clinton won the popular vote after all.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:28 AM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
Don't worry, I'm sure they'll find some way to spin being unable to build the wall as the Democrats' fault.
posted by dilaudid at 8:28 AM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by dilaudid at 8:28 AM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
I'm going to show Donald the same respect and cooperation that the GOP has shown Obama for eight years.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 8:29 AM on November 10, 2016 [41 favorites]
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 8:29 AM on November 10, 2016 [41 favorites]
I'm going to get between the haters and whoever they're trying to hate,
Well, since I am one of the ones they are trying to hate, I will be doing plenty of this too. And I will be calling them racists all the while.
posted by maxsparber at 8:30 AM on November 10, 2016 [7 favorites]
Well, since I am one of the ones they are trying to hate, I will be doing plenty of this too. And I will be calling them racists all the while.
posted by maxsparber at 8:30 AM on November 10, 2016 [7 favorites]
East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94: Papa Kabaddi’s Bumper Fun List Of People Who Might Have Single-Handedly Prevented An Incompetent, Abusive Con-Artist From Becoming The Most Powerful Human Alive If They Had Only Swallowed Their Pride And Openly Endorsed The Competent Candidate
I agree they should've opposed him and endorsed her, but I don't think it would've done any good. She had all the endorsements from newspapers and generals and many prominent Republicans, which meant fuck all to his core supporters.
He got their interest with birtherism, he got their support with the "Mexicans are rapists", and he closed the deal with "ban all Muslims." Nothing else mattered. That's all they wanted. No amount of pundits or endorsements or tax returns or Russian ties were going to make them change their minds. You can't counter racism with endorsements.
posted by bluecore at 8:33 AM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
I agree they should've opposed him and endorsed her, but I don't think it would've done any good. She had all the endorsements from newspapers and generals and many prominent Republicans, which meant fuck all to his core supporters.
He got their interest with birtherism, he got their support with the "Mexicans are rapists", and he closed the deal with "ban all Muslims." Nothing else mattered. That's all they wanted. No amount of pundits or endorsements or tax returns or Russian ties were going to make them change their minds. You can't counter racism with endorsements.
posted by bluecore at 8:33 AM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
Should have linked PZ Myers' essay to the Kill Bill meme above.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:34 AM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:34 AM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
Report 1: Engaging Racists who Support Trump in order to Enlighten
So in this one case I moved from my basic 'wrong' response to engage because this person seems to become obsessed with the fact that most if not all of my family are 'liberals' in general and think Trump is no good. But really the really reason is that they're posting on Facebook and literally 'forcing' her to see it. She does not like any talk about racism and Trump one tiny bit.
And what part of engagement are we at now? We'll ignore any talk of racism, sexism and all of that and focus on the fact that my nephew said "Fuck" when he heard Trump won. We're onto lectures about parenting and how my Dad should be disgusted because he raised daughters who allowed their kid to say the word 'fuck' in relation to Trump. And how she would never ever, ever put up with her Grandson saying the word 'fuck'.
I mean, yeah. Enlightenment, we're right on track. I can feel it coming any second.
posted by Jalliah at 8:34 AM on November 10, 2016 [12 favorites]
If Sheriff Joe makes it to Secretary of DHS.
Jesus Fucking Christ. Will planes turn into immigration checks?
posted by Talez at 8:37 AM on November 10, 2016
Jesus Fucking Christ. Will planes turn into immigration checks?
posted by Talez at 8:37 AM on November 10, 2016
After reading the metafilter election thread, I am now convinced of something Jamelle Bouie said on twitter which is, "Trump’s win means that white nationalism is at the center of our politics, and that people on the right and left will try to accommodate it."
posted by RedShrek at 8:39 AM on November 10, 2016 [33 favorites]
posted by RedShrek at 8:39 AM on November 10, 2016 [33 favorites]
Even in the right wing suburb where I went to school, that behavior on any visible, systemic, documented level would never, ever have been tolerated by the administration. It sure wasn't that kids weren't racist and homophobic, it was that using those words loudly where adults could hear was punished.
This is, in my opinion, the real worst danger of the Trump administration. It's not the laws he might not veto, or the people he might appoint. It's - how do you stop this when it comes from the top? How do you punish this when it's embraced or accepted by the President of the United States?
Remember all the little times that Obama stepped in when someone small had something bad happen to them because people were unjust? The professor who was arrested by police breaking into his own house, the boy arrested for the clock. He invited them to the White House, and it was always a profound symbol: injustice may have occurred, but it is Not What We Do Here.
Now imagine the school punishes those boys for chanting "White Power" at the school, or raising a Nazi flag, or saying "You have to go back", or chanting "Trump" at an opposing basketball team.
Now imagine them being invited to the White House, as a powerful reminder that sure, they may have been punished, but it is absolutely What We Do Here.
posted by corb at 8:41 AM on November 10, 2016 [63 favorites]
This is, in my opinion, the real worst danger of the Trump administration. It's not the laws he might not veto, or the people he might appoint. It's - how do you stop this when it comes from the top? How do you punish this when it's embraced or accepted by the President of the United States?
Remember all the little times that Obama stepped in when someone small had something bad happen to them because people were unjust? The professor who was arrested by police breaking into his own house, the boy arrested for the clock. He invited them to the White House, and it was always a profound symbol: injustice may have occurred, but it is Not What We Do Here.
Now imagine the school punishes those boys for chanting "White Power" at the school, or raising a Nazi flag, or saying "You have to go back", or chanting "Trump" at an opposing basketball team.
Now imagine them being invited to the White House, as a powerful reminder that sure, they may have been punished, but it is absolutely What We Do Here.
posted by corb at 8:41 AM on November 10, 2016 [63 favorites]
The Business We've Chosen
I think I have a little bit of cred on the questions Glenn’s essay is addressing. I was arguing sixteen months ago that Trump had a very real shot at both the GOP nomination and the presidency, because he was a skilled populist demagogue, who was already successfully exploiting the intersection of racism and economic anxiety.posted by tonycpsu at 8:41 AM on November 10, 2016 [27 favorites]
I supported Bernie Sanders in the Democratic primaries. I criticized Hillary Clinton sharply on numerous occasions for her far-too-cozy relationship with banksters and war criminals. I deplored the combination of greed and extreme tone deafness that led an already very rich person to take many millions in speaking fees from financial interests during the short time between her tenure at State and the formal beginning of her presidential run.
So yes I agree, wholeheartedly and without reservation, that Hillary Clinton was a flawed candidate. But there’s an extra word in that sentence. It’s the extra word that would still be in that sentence if you replaced the name “Hillary Clinton” with any other name in the recorded history of the world. [...]
If you helped bring about the election of Donald Trump by doing the best you could to publicize every sordid little detail of the Wikileaks data dumps that tumbled into your lap, then that’s what you did.
That’s what you did when everything was on the line. That’s how you decided, freely and consciously, to use your time and your very considerable talents. That’s what you chose to do at a moment of supreme moral and political crisis.
And that in its own small or perhaps not so small way is a tragedy.
And my dad's follow-up: "You have to understand that most people who voted for Trump weren't voting for Trump or what he said he'd do. They voted for Trump because he wasn't HER."
Uh-huh.
I did get to him when I said "your ex-wife DOES want what he said he'd do. And America just gave her everything she wanted.". "...that IS scary."
posted by delfin at 8:41 AM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
Uh-huh.
I did get to him when I said "your ex-wife DOES want what he said he'd do. And America just gave her everything she wanted.". "...that IS scary."
posted by delfin at 8:41 AM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
Oh yeah, I got a lecture email from my mom (a Democrat!) about saying fuck on Facebook. I wrote back and said, "I am 46-fucking-years-old, Mother, and I will say fuck where and when I want."
She apologized.
Also I somehow have to reconcile myself with my father, who is staunchly Republican (and racist, even though he has black friends; yeah, he's THAT kind of racist), because they are moving states to be closer to me because they're elderly and I'm the only child they share so the care burden falls on me. I love and like my mother. I barely tolerate my father.
posted by cooker girl at 8:42 AM on November 10, 2016 [12 favorites]
She apologized.
Also I somehow have to reconcile myself with my father, who is staunchly Republican (and racist, even though he has black friends; yeah, he's THAT kind of racist), because they are moving states to be closer to me because they're elderly and I'm the only child they share so the care burden falls on me. I love and like my mother. I barely tolerate my father.
posted by cooker girl at 8:42 AM on November 10, 2016 [12 favorites]
Let me show you an analogy here:
I saw someone say on twitter the other day that "you don't have to be a racist to support Trump, you just have to be okay with racism," and boy is that true.
Let's compare to the situation in Britain:
"You don't have to be an antisemite to support Corbyn, you just have to be okay with antisemitism."
Corbyn has not engaged in antisemitism, or used antisemitic dog whistles, but his willingness to share platforms with outright antisemites makes the following sentence true.
And also pointless. No Corbyn supporter will change his mind based on this. And no Trump supporter will change his mind based on the above.
posted by ocschwar at 8:44 AM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
I saw someone say on twitter the other day that "you don't have to be a racist to support Trump, you just have to be okay with racism," and boy is that true.
Let's compare to the situation in Britain:
"You don't have to be an antisemite to support Corbyn, you just have to be okay with antisemitism."
Corbyn has not engaged in antisemitism, or used antisemitic dog whistles, but his willingness to share platforms with outright antisemites makes the following sentence true.
And also pointless. No Corbyn supporter will change his mind based on this. And no Trump supporter will change his mind based on the above.
posted by ocschwar at 8:44 AM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
Leslie Knope Writes Letter to America Following Donald Trump’s Victory
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:44 AM on November 10, 2016 [15 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:44 AM on November 10, 2016 [15 favorites]
I won't particularly care that the coming disaster is the GOP's fault when my primary concern will be caring for uninsured ill family members, finding a job when our economy goes into depression, worrying about the safety of non-white family members, etc.
What is comforting me (read: giving me a glimmer of hope) is that there is legal wrangling that has to happen for this to take place. What I am calling for is for the Democrats to make sure that legal wrangling goes on as long as possible, and is as difficult as possible, and that they fight on behalf of their constituents every step of the way.
And I am also pledging to be the same kind of roadblock myself, with advocacy and letter-writing and other citizen action.
We are not in the room where it happens right now. But maybe it's okay to not be in the room where it happens and stick to making a lot of noise outside the window. Because when the people inside the room end up not being able to do anything because they're gridlocked, then...
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:46 AM on November 10, 2016 [8 favorites]
What is comforting me (read: giving me a glimmer of hope) is that there is legal wrangling that has to happen for this to take place. What I am calling for is for the Democrats to make sure that legal wrangling goes on as long as possible, and is as difficult as possible, and that they fight on behalf of their constituents every step of the way.
And I am also pledging to be the same kind of roadblock myself, with advocacy and letter-writing and other citizen action.
We are not in the room where it happens right now. But maybe it's okay to not be in the room where it happens and stick to making a lot of noise outside the window. Because when the people inside the room end up not being able to do anything because they're gridlocked, then...
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:46 AM on November 10, 2016 [8 favorites]
What I am calling for is for the Democrats to make sure that legal wrangling goes on as long as possible, and is as difficult as possible, and that they fight on behalf of their constituents every step of the way.
Traditionally, the Democrats in Congress have not been very good at this sort of thing.
posted by drezdn at 8:48 AM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
Traditionally, the Democrats in Congress have not been very good at this sort of thing.
posted by drezdn at 8:48 AM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
Sticking It Out in Donald Trump's America; Why Adam Gopnik isn’t returning to Canada: Citizenship is a complicated thing, and the claims made by the community near at hand will always feel far more compelling than those made by the country at large. There are illusions in this—sometimes learned, as the history of the Jews my family remain remind us painfully too late. Having the wisdom to know when to go home is crucial too. Yet the community made in New York, and the truth that our Canada loving children still know no other home than this, makes returning even to the better, colder country hard. Too soon to go home—but save us, if you would, a place at the table.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:49 AM on November 10, 2016
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:49 AM on November 10, 2016
Just checking in: this is the wrong time to rewatch Threads, right?
posted by pxe2000 at 8:53 AM on November 10, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by pxe2000 at 8:53 AM on November 10, 2016 [11 favorites]
Traditionally, the Democrats in Congress have not been very good at this sort of thing.
that's where we, the constituents who voted for Hillary, come in by holding their feet to the fire.
AND doing all of the other civic action we can, of course.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:53 AM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
that's where we, the constituents who voted for Hillary, come in by holding their feet to the fire.
AND doing all of the other civic action we can, of course.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:53 AM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
Politico: Meet Trump's Cabinet-in-waiting. The names being bandied around.
posted by Kabanos at 8:53 AM on November 10, 2016
posted by Kabanos at 8:53 AM on November 10, 2016
N. K. Jemisin.
Her anger is more comforting to me than many things I have seen floating around social media about how oh, a President alone can't do every bad thing or oh, there's still a few months before the inauguration or oh, we collectively have survived atrocities and so surely we collectively can survive this.
posted by inconstant at 8:54 AM on November 10, 2016 [11 favorites]
Her anger is more comforting to me than many things I have seen floating around social media about how oh, a President alone can't do every bad thing or oh, there's still a few months before the inauguration or oh, we collectively have survived atrocities and so surely we collectively can survive this.
posted by inconstant at 8:54 AM on November 10, 2016 [11 favorites]
Just checking in: this is the wrong time to rewatch Threads, right?
Recommend you find something more cheerful, like Black Mirror.
posted by ocschwar at 8:54 AM on November 10, 2016 [10 favorites]
Recommend you find something more cheerful, like Black Mirror.
posted by ocschwar at 8:54 AM on November 10, 2016 [10 favorites]
http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/09/politics/donald-trump-transition/
"As part of that vetting, appointees were judged based on a loyalty test, a source told CNN. That included scouring potential appointees' social media accounts. Some people were weeded out for having been publicly critical of Trump in the past."
That trademarked Donald Trump backbone on display.
posted by ocschwar at 8:55 AM on November 10, 2016 [24 favorites]
"As part of that vetting, appointees were judged based on a loyalty test, a source told CNN. That included scouring potential appointees' social media accounts. Some people were weeded out for having been publicly critical of Trump in the past."
That trademarked Donald Trump backbone on display.
posted by ocschwar at 8:55 AM on November 10, 2016 [24 favorites]
A post-election letter by a fictional character with a fictional biography written by "Yahoo TV Staff" instead of the actual show's writers might just be the very worst of all the fanfics appearing throughout this entire election cycle.
It was written by the show's writers.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:55 AM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
It was written by the show's writers.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:55 AM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
Ive been fueled by alcohol and righteous anger. I have lost family and friends. I will not be the good German whistling with his head down.
posted by Senor Cardgage at 8:56 AM on November 10, 2016 [20 favorites]
posted by Senor Cardgage at 8:56 AM on November 10, 2016 [20 favorites]
Trump is considering the JP Morgan CEO for a Treasury Post.
Change!
posted by drezdn at 8:57 AM on November 10, 2016 [15 favorites]
Change!
posted by drezdn at 8:57 AM on November 10, 2016 [15 favorites]
And call me cheesy if you must but Im getting a hell of a lot of strength from this song right now.
posted by Senor Cardgage at 8:57 AM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by Senor Cardgage at 8:57 AM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
After a very hard couple of days my partner has surprised me with her feelings of equanimity. Now she knows for sure that the barriers erected against her and her creeping sense of intruding in a male-dominated field were never in her imagination. The country sent a very clear message to women: you don't don't belong in the places of power and achievement. We're not listening to you. When you speak up for yourself it only makes us angrier.
She's realized that when she calls out microaggressions and sexism at work, her male colleagues just feel attacked and defensive, and nobody gains. I want to believe she's wrong but I don't know if I can. She's not giving up: she's going to continue to work and teach and live her life as an example and try to make a better world for people like her little sister, who's applying for college this year.
I don't know what I'm going to do myself. My own job, with which I've been increasingly disillusioned, is a product of the liberal internationalism that has just been soundly rejected and is manifestly heading for collapse. My colleagues are Lebanese and Colombian and Sri Lankan and Ethiopian - most of them are women, and many aren't US citizens. And while I largely interact with my coworkers via email, it's striking how everyone seems to be carrying on like nothing has happened. I don't know if it's professionalism or denial, but I can't envision my organization or anything like it existing a year from now.
When I was canvassing in Iowa last weekend I got a ride from Iowa City to Cedar Rapids from a Hillary staffer who had been working every day since February. (Also in the car was a woman from the Netherlands who had been in the country for three months solely to volunteer for the campaign, but that's another story.) Yesterday I thought about getting in touch with him - just to say "what can we do now? how can I fight?" - but I didn't, because I don't know what place the Democratic Party has in the face of a rising tide of nationalism and tribalism, a world that no longer values diversity, inclusion, or charity. It's not just white people - Duterte in the Philippines has risen to power on a platform of murdering "drug dealers" and antagonizing its neighbors. ISIS is another side of the same coin. The curtain is coming down on our long Weimar period. What can we possibly do other than support and cherish the people we love and do our best to survive?
posted by theodolite at 8:58 AM on November 10, 2016 [22 favorites]
She's realized that when she calls out microaggressions and sexism at work, her male colleagues just feel attacked and defensive, and nobody gains. I want to believe she's wrong but I don't know if I can. She's not giving up: she's going to continue to work and teach and live her life as an example and try to make a better world for people like her little sister, who's applying for college this year.
I don't know what I'm going to do myself. My own job, with which I've been increasingly disillusioned, is a product of the liberal internationalism that has just been soundly rejected and is manifestly heading for collapse. My colleagues are Lebanese and Colombian and Sri Lankan and Ethiopian - most of them are women, and many aren't US citizens. And while I largely interact with my coworkers via email, it's striking how everyone seems to be carrying on like nothing has happened. I don't know if it's professionalism or denial, but I can't envision my organization or anything like it existing a year from now.
When I was canvassing in Iowa last weekend I got a ride from Iowa City to Cedar Rapids from a Hillary staffer who had been working every day since February. (Also in the car was a woman from the Netherlands who had been in the country for three months solely to volunteer for the campaign, but that's another story.) Yesterday I thought about getting in touch with him - just to say "what can we do now? how can I fight?" - but I didn't, because I don't know what place the Democratic Party has in the face of a rising tide of nationalism and tribalism, a world that no longer values diversity, inclusion, or charity. It's not just white people - Duterte in the Philippines has risen to power on a platform of murdering "drug dealers" and antagonizing its neighbors. ISIS is another side of the same coin. The curtain is coming down on our long Weimar period. What can we possibly do other than support and cherish the people we love and do our best to survive?
posted by theodolite at 8:58 AM on November 10, 2016 [22 favorites]
As I've mentioned here on Metafilter before, I'm a converted conservative. It's been a long time now, but I still remember the mindset I had in those days. I didn't consider myself a racist and would have railed against being called racist at the time, but I now know my lack of awareness of my privilege was passively racist, as were many of my beliefs back then. I'm atoning for that. Thankfully my own progressive "enlightenment" came through patient folks who weren't confrontational or unwilling to engage with me. I'm 100% sure I would have resisted and rejected that approach.
In the days since, I've used the same approach on others and have successfully converted a few. (Interestingly, the most radical seem to make the most radical shifts) It doesn't work on all, or even most, but it does work if you're okay with small incremental successes along with lots of failures.
So yeah, it's just anecdotal data from one guy, but I thought I'd share. Fight them if that's what you want to do, but while you're looking for fights I'll be over here looking for solutions.
posted by rocket88 at 8:58 AM on November 10, 2016 [20 favorites]
In the days since, I've used the same approach on others and have successfully converted a few. (Interestingly, the most radical seem to make the most radical shifts) It doesn't work on all, or even most, but it does work if you're okay with small incremental successes along with lots of failures.
So yeah, it's just anecdotal data from one guy, but I thought I'd share. Fight them if that's what you want to do, but while you're looking for fights I'll be over here looking for solutions.
posted by rocket88 at 8:58 AM on November 10, 2016 [20 favorites]
I just requested from my congress rep that she stay away from the inauguration, stay away from SOTU addresses, and not shake his hand.
posted by ocschwar at 8:59 AM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by ocschwar at 8:59 AM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
Just as a clarification, 48% of the country did not elect DT.
231,556,622 eligible voters
46.9% didn't vote
25.6% voted Clinton
25.5% voted Trump
posted by cooker girl at 8:59 AM on November 10, 2016 [27 favorites]
231,556,622 eligible voters
46.9% didn't vote
25.6% voted Clinton
25.5% voted Trump
posted by cooker girl at 8:59 AM on November 10, 2016 [27 favorites]
The "Hillary Stole the Nomination, Bernie Would Have Won" stuff is coming fast and furious on my Facebook feed right now. I don't know if/how to handle it. I don't want to let it stand, I don't want to fight about it. I would just get off of Facebook, except that it's where I've been finding so much healthy collective grieving, and support and encouragement and good, challenging writing about racism and misogyny.
posted by BrashTech at 9:00 AM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by BrashTech at 9:00 AM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
If you don’t vote, you passively accept the result, whatever it is.
posted by pharm at 9:00 AM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by pharm at 9:00 AM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
I'm seeing several takes about how Democrats in the future must nominate more populist candidates who can appeal to working-class whites... However, this seems to be fighting the last war. They're a shrinking share of the electorate, while minorities & college edu whites grow...
posted by drezdn at 9:01 AM on November 10, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by drezdn at 9:01 AM on November 10, 2016 [9 favorites]
Politico: Meet Trump's Cabinet-in-waiting. The names being bandied around.
Obviously all of those picks sound awful, and Rudy Giuliani as Attorney General could easily be the worst part of a Trump administration, but I'm shocked at the depth of terrible picks for Interior. Jan Brewer is probably only the third or fourth worst name on that list, and she's one of the worst people in America today.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 9:01 AM on November 10, 2016 [12 favorites]
Obviously all of those picks sound awful, and Rudy Giuliani as Attorney General could easily be the worst part of a Trump administration, but I'm shocked at the depth of terrible picks for Interior. Jan Brewer is probably only the third or fourth worst name on that list, and she's one of the worst people in America today.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 9:01 AM on November 10, 2016 [12 favorites]
Unless you're planning on non-electoral methods to oust Trump and the people he's bringing with him, calling the people who voted for him racists, and making your electoral efforts about them, is a path to reelecting him, or somebody worse than him.
You go to the polls with the electorate you have, not the one you wish you have. You can be righteous and right, or you can be in the Oval Office, getting something done.
Put together a platform that addresses the real, material circumstances of a wide swath of the electorate, and make that plan the centerpiece of your run.
Pick a candidate that gets the base fired up, and present that base with a platform and a plan to implement it that gets directly at the material circumstances of their lives, and the lives of many undecided or unengaged voters you'd like to pull into the coalition.
Nobody ever decided to vote Democrat because you called them racist n+1 times til they finally said "Welp, they're right about me." Get the votes first, get their lives fixed next. Racism just IS in America. It just is. It has changed, the effects have definitely lessened in some regards, and we've figured out ways to combat it that weren't available to us even 10 years ago. But it IS, and all the other isms ARE as well.
You can commit to being right about them, and calling people out as much as possible about them, or you can commit to winning a goddamn election on a platform that has broad support with a candidate who will actually be trusted to work towards that platform.
None of that was really even attempted by the DNC this cycle, at least not after the candidate was selected.
posted by turntraitor at 9:01 AM on November 10, 2016 [11 favorites]
You go to the polls with the electorate you have, not the one you wish you have. You can be righteous and right, or you can be in the Oval Office, getting something done.
Put together a platform that addresses the real, material circumstances of a wide swath of the electorate, and make that plan the centerpiece of your run.
Pick a candidate that gets the base fired up, and present that base with a platform and a plan to implement it that gets directly at the material circumstances of their lives, and the lives of many undecided or unengaged voters you'd like to pull into the coalition.
Nobody ever decided to vote Democrat because you called them racist n+1 times til they finally said "Welp, they're right about me." Get the votes first, get their lives fixed next. Racism just IS in America. It just is. It has changed, the effects have definitely lessened in some regards, and we've figured out ways to combat it that weren't available to us even 10 years ago. But it IS, and all the other isms ARE as well.
You can commit to being right about them, and calling people out as much as possible about them, or you can commit to winning a goddamn election on a platform that has broad support with a candidate who will actually be trusted to work towards that platform.
None of that was really even attempted by the DNC this cycle, at least not after the candidate was selected.
posted by turntraitor at 9:01 AM on November 10, 2016 [11 favorites]
But as a strategy to make Trump a one-term president, how smart would it be to start with the premise that 48% of the country are racists?
I really do not understand how to address institutional racism without naming it. I assume more than 48 percent of the population is racist, which is backed up by studies. I have never seen racism successfully addressed by refusing to acknowledge it.
posted by maxsparber at 9:01 AM on November 10, 2016 [28 favorites]
I really do not understand how to address institutional racism without naming it. I assume more than 48 percent of the population is racist, which is backed up by studies. I have never seen racism successfully addressed by refusing to acknowledge it.
posted by maxsparber at 9:01 AM on November 10, 2016 [28 favorites]
The sheer breathtaking arrogance of deriding POC for calling racism what it is while patting yourself on the back for being "converted".
I mean, it's not new and it's not surprising. But somehow I haven't yet managed to callus over that part of my psyche.
posted by inconstant at 9:01 AM on November 10, 2016 [27 favorites]
I mean, it's not new and it's not surprising. But somehow I haven't yet managed to callus over that part of my psyche.
posted by inconstant at 9:01 AM on November 10, 2016 [27 favorites]
This has been on my mind for much of the election. Important read.
Factiness
Some quotes:
"That people (people like me: white, coastal, liberal) were surprised by what happened last night should be read as a repudiation of the media we are consuming. We’re quick to call out right wing sites as harboring misinformation, but what is clear today is that the political press, the pundits, those providing you takes, and of course all that data, down to the tenth, are also implicated in the rise of misinformation. People spent months and months clicking on Fivethirtyeight, listening to podcasts, thinking they were being informed. Super informed. It was a massive and counterproductive waste. Something we needed to come to terms with even had Clinton won is that the right doesn’t have a monopoly on political fictions presented as fact."
"On the right, they have what Stephen Colbert called 'truthiness,' which we might define as ignoring facts in the name of some larger truth. The facts of Obama’s birthplace mattered less for them than their own racist 'truth' of white superiority. Perhaps we need to start articulating a left-wing version of truthiness: let’s call it 'factiness.' Factiness is the taste for the feel and aesthetic of 'facts,' often at the expense of missing the truth. From silly self-help-y TED talks to bad NPR-style neuroscience updates to wrapping ourselves in the misleading scientism of Fivethirtyeight statistics, factiness is obsessing over and covering ourselves in fact after fact while still missing bigger truths.
"Factiness appeals to the ideas of the objective, empirical, and the disinterested apprehension of reality. When philosopher Jean Baudrillard spoke of 'simulations', he wasn’t talking as much about places like Disneyland as much as how Disneyland obscures the fact that everything else is a simulation. And throughout the campaign, what’s called the mainstream media has been desperate to pretend everything outside Trumpland is real politics."
posted by naju at 9:01 AM on November 10, 2016 [47 favorites]
Factiness
Some quotes:
"That people (people like me: white, coastal, liberal) were surprised by what happened last night should be read as a repudiation of the media we are consuming. We’re quick to call out right wing sites as harboring misinformation, but what is clear today is that the political press, the pundits, those providing you takes, and of course all that data, down to the tenth, are also implicated in the rise of misinformation. People spent months and months clicking on Fivethirtyeight, listening to podcasts, thinking they were being informed. Super informed. It was a massive and counterproductive waste. Something we needed to come to terms with even had Clinton won is that the right doesn’t have a monopoly on political fictions presented as fact."
"On the right, they have what Stephen Colbert called 'truthiness,' which we might define as ignoring facts in the name of some larger truth. The facts of Obama’s birthplace mattered less for them than their own racist 'truth' of white superiority. Perhaps we need to start articulating a left-wing version of truthiness: let’s call it 'factiness.' Factiness is the taste for the feel and aesthetic of 'facts,' often at the expense of missing the truth. From silly self-help-y TED talks to bad NPR-style neuroscience updates to wrapping ourselves in the misleading scientism of Fivethirtyeight statistics, factiness is obsessing over and covering ourselves in fact after fact while still missing bigger truths.
"Factiness appeals to the ideas of the objective, empirical, and the disinterested apprehension of reality. When philosopher Jean Baudrillard spoke of 'simulations', he wasn’t talking as much about places like Disneyland as much as how Disneyland obscures the fact that everything else is a simulation. And throughout the campaign, what’s called the mainstream media has been desperate to pretend everything outside Trumpland is real politics."
posted by naju at 9:01 AM on November 10, 2016 [47 favorites]
If you don’t vote, you passively accept the result, whatever it is.
I don't disagree with that but I think it's important that we recognize that "only" 25.5% of eligible voters actively voted for DT.
posted by cooker girl at 9:02 AM on November 10, 2016 [9 favorites]
I don't disagree with that but I think it's important that we recognize that "only" 25.5% of eligible voters actively voted for DT.
posted by cooker girl at 9:02 AM on November 10, 2016 [9 favorites]
Jason Kander
Wait, Jason Kander has a son named "True Kander"? That's something else.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 9:03 AM on November 10, 2016 [14 favorites]
Wait, Jason Kander has a son named "True Kander"? That's something else.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 9:03 AM on November 10, 2016 [14 favorites]
This is the shocker to me: the New York Times diff(2012,2016) map with huge red vectors all over the rust belt. No conceivable accomplishment by the Trump gang can make those vectors stick and those voters are easily recoverable. The thing that bugs me is there is no way the Clinton team did not have the resources to hang onto PA, MI, and WI if only they had seen it coming.
Do not listen to Limbaugh now it will make you throw up but on Tuesday morning he said this might well be a repeat of 1980 when Carter led in the polls. He said: 1.) Trump has new voters which pollsters define as not likely and do not include and 2.) the energy at Trump's rallies is an order of magnitude larger than at Clinton's. This is anecdotal data, not real data. Nate Silver had by far the best data and the best coverage.
posted by bukvich at 9:03 AM on November 10, 2016 [10 favorites]
Do not listen to Limbaugh now it will make you throw up but on Tuesday morning he said this might well be a repeat of 1980 when Carter led in the polls. He said: 1.) Trump has new voters which pollsters define as not likely and do not include and 2.) the energy at Trump's rallies is an order of magnitude larger than at Clinton's. This is anecdotal data, not real data. Nate Silver had by far the best data and the best coverage.
posted by bukvich at 9:03 AM on November 10, 2016 [10 favorites]
But as a strategy to make Trump a one-term president, how smart would it be to start with the premise that 48% of the country are racists? (Hint: Not very smart.) In a public debate, and especially when you feel strongly about something, you get to a point where you either get to be right, or get what you want. 48% of the country did a stupid thing, and some can be won back. But not if your premise is that they're scum.
Just think of the basket of deplorables thing. She was 100% right, but not only did it get her in trouble, it also didn't convince a single person to vote for her who wasn't going to already. Also think about how good Obama is at this kind of thing.
First off, it's 48% of the people who voted in this election, not 48% of the country.
More importantly, though, your logic is flawed, because it only focuses on the idea that calling out racism can lose votes of racists. It does not consider that calling out racism can gain the votes of people who respond to that message.
In this particular election, with this particular electoral system and this particular candidate, this was not the winning strategy. That is one data point. At the same time, a vote from a Latino in Florida who's worried about being deported was equal in importance to the vote of a white former assembly line worker in Michigan. I strongly reject this idea that the left can only win by reaching out to voters who aren't receptive in general to progressive politics just because they happen to be the demographic that the media chose to focus on.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:03 AM on November 10, 2016 [11 favorites]
Just think of the basket of deplorables thing. She was 100% right, but not only did it get her in trouble, it also didn't convince a single person to vote for her who wasn't going to already. Also think about how good Obama is at this kind of thing.
First off, it's 48% of the people who voted in this election, not 48% of the country.
More importantly, though, your logic is flawed, because it only focuses on the idea that calling out racism can lose votes of racists. It does not consider that calling out racism can gain the votes of people who respond to that message.
In this particular election, with this particular electoral system and this particular candidate, this was not the winning strategy. That is one data point. At the same time, a vote from a Latino in Florida who's worried about being deported was equal in importance to the vote of a white former assembly line worker in Michigan. I strongly reject this idea that the left can only win by reaching out to voters who aren't receptive in general to progressive politics just because they happen to be the demographic that the media chose to focus on.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:03 AM on November 10, 2016 [11 favorites]
Chris Hayes: More and more evidence accruing that Comey played a huge, possibly decisive role. Though like I said yesterday so did 20 other things.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:04 AM on November 10, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:04 AM on November 10, 2016 [11 favorites]
So the thing that I do AT the IRC is that I'm an HR data-processing monkey, and I work with a lot of HR offices in other countries. So I'm on Skype with people in Thailand and Abidjan and such daily.
The guy in Abidjan and I just had a very long Skype talk about the election that got fascinating. He was asking whether part of it was because people in the US aren't ready to have a woman as a leader. I said maybe in part, but also...
And I couched a lot of this in personal opinion, but told him a lot about the corporate dominance of the economy and how that's been mucking things up. I actually compared it all to "The Monsters Are Due on Maple Street", and compared the corporate interests to the martians who turn the rest of us against each other. I also told him about Citizens United and how that went down. (I may have broken his brain a little with that one.) But he absolutely was down with the "wait, so the people who have all the money right now have the power to influence the message..." concept.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:05 AM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
The guy in Abidjan and I just had a very long Skype talk about the election that got fascinating. He was asking whether part of it was because people in the US aren't ready to have a woman as a leader. I said maybe in part, but also...
And I couched a lot of this in personal opinion, but told him a lot about the corporate dominance of the economy and how that's been mucking things up. I actually compared it all to "The Monsters Are Due on Maple Street", and compared the corporate interests to the martians who turn the rest of us against each other. I also told him about Citizens United and how that went down. (I may have broken his brain a little with that one.) But he absolutely was down with the "wait, so the people who have all the money right now have the power to influence the message..." concept.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:05 AM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
As one of no doubt many gen-xers here, who lived through Reagan and the Bushes, this feels all too familiar. I'm so tired, and I haven't even done anything--I cannot imagine how our actual do-ers and fighters feel right now. Just, fuck.
posted by sandettie light vessel automatic at 9:05 AM on November 10, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by sandettie light vessel automatic at 9:05 AM on November 10, 2016 [9 favorites]
@AriBerman: Trump won Wisconsin by 27,000 votes. For perspective, 300,000 registered voters in WI lacked strict voter ID
@AriBerman: Voter turnout in Wisconsin at lowest level in 20 years & down 15% in Milwaukee, where 70% black voters live
Voter suppression works. The GOP now has control of 23 state legislations. And the GOP, with Trump, will take control of the Supreme Court, possibly for the rest of my life. Voting rights will continued to be attacked throughout this country.
For some people, protesting on the streets is the only way for their voices to be heard. Protest is going to be important in the coming years, as the people who control our government have shown their contempt for democracy when democracy doesn't go their way. This is a country where a bunch of white people think Black Lives Matter are terrorists, and those white people have a leader who just got elected president.
posted by airish at 9:06 AM on November 10, 2016 [56 favorites]
@AriBerman: Voter turnout in Wisconsin at lowest level in 20 years & down 15% in Milwaukee, where 70% black voters live
Voter suppression works. The GOP now has control of 23 state legislations. And the GOP, with Trump, will take control of the Supreme Court, possibly for the rest of my life. Voting rights will continued to be attacked throughout this country.
For some people, protesting on the streets is the only way for their voices to be heard. Protest is going to be important in the coming years, as the people who control our government have shown their contempt for democracy when democracy doesn't go their way. This is a country where a bunch of white people think Black Lives Matter are terrorists, and those white people have a leader who just got elected president.
posted by airish at 9:06 AM on November 10, 2016 [56 favorites]
So yeah, it's just anecdotal data from one guy, but I thought I'd share. Fight them if that's what you want to do, but while you're looking for fights I'll be over here looking for solutions.
That's nice and all, but women, POC, LGBTQIA people have been told for years, literally decades, that if they just pipe down, talk nice, ask politely, that we'll win 'em over in the end. We've been told by straight white guy liberals that they'll get to us when they're done getting everything they want. We've had the polite Christmases where you don't tell your brother what a racist fuckhead he is but you smile and do the dishes because your mum wants everything to stay pleasant and its fucking bullshit and we're tired of it.
posted by threetwentytwo at 9:06 AM on November 10, 2016 [106 favorites]
That's nice and all, but women, POC, LGBTQIA people have been told for years, literally decades, that if they just pipe down, talk nice, ask politely, that we'll win 'em over in the end. We've been told by straight white guy liberals that they'll get to us when they're done getting everything they want. We've had the polite Christmases where you don't tell your brother what a racist fuckhead he is but you smile and do the dishes because your mum wants everything to stay pleasant and its fucking bullshit and we're tired of it.
posted by threetwentytwo at 9:06 AM on November 10, 2016 [106 favorites]
The sheer breathtaking arrogance of deriding POC for calling racism what it is while patting yourself on the back for being "converted".
Maybe that's how I came across (I don't claim to be the goodest communicator) but I don't pat myself on the back. I have no standing to tell PoC how to react to racism and I know that.
But I personally see successes from my approach and I will continue to pursue them.
posted by rocket88 at 9:08 AM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
Maybe that's how I came across (I don't claim to be the goodest communicator) but I don't pat myself on the back. I have no standing to tell PoC how to react to racism and I know that.
But I personally see successes from my approach and I will continue to pursue them.
posted by rocket88 at 9:08 AM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
The thing that bugs me is there is no way the Clinton team did not have the resources to hang onto PA, MI, and WI if only they had seen it coming.
I believe that the post-mortems and interviews with her campaign people will show that they did see it coming early on, but chose to focus on FL, PA, and NC where they felt they had the same amount of gettable votes, but didn't have to alter their message so much to appeal to the non-college white Rust Belt audience that it would hurt them in other states.
You can't run fifty individual campaigns. People have Internet. It looks to me that the Clinton team chose a balance of a coherent campaign message and getting out the vote in areas where that message would resonate. It failed. That doesn't mean it was wrong.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:08 AM on November 10, 2016 [16 favorites]
I believe that the post-mortems and interviews with her campaign people will show that they did see it coming early on, but chose to focus on FL, PA, and NC where they felt they had the same amount of gettable votes, but didn't have to alter their message so much to appeal to the non-college white Rust Belt audience that it would hurt them in other states.
You can't run fifty individual campaigns. People have Internet. It looks to me that the Clinton team chose a balance of a coherent campaign message and getting out the vote in areas where that message would resonate. It failed. That doesn't mean it was wrong.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:08 AM on November 10, 2016 [16 favorites]
And no Trump supporter will change his mind based on the above.
I care very little about changing Trump supporters' minds. If other people want to do the work, more power to them, but it is not a priority for me.
I care far more about demonstrating to people of color, LGBTQ people, immigrants, women, and religious minorities that they are not alone, that there is a place for them in America's halls of power. One of the ways that I demonstrate that care is by not pretending racism, misogyny, and xenophobia are about economics.
I would rather build a Democratic Party coalition worthy of the support of the folks Trump explicitly and repeatedly campaigned against than somehow coddle lazy racists out of voting for racism.
posted by palindromic at 9:09 AM on November 10, 2016 [42 favorites]
I care very little about changing Trump supporters' minds. If other people want to do the work, more power to them, but it is not a priority for me.
I care far more about demonstrating to people of color, LGBTQ people, immigrants, women, and religious minorities that they are not alone, that there is a place for them in America's halls of power. One of the ways that I demonstrate that care is by not pretending racism, misogyny, and xenophobia are about economics.
I would rather build a Democratic Party coalition worthy of the support of the folks Trump explicitly and repeatedly campaigned against than somehow coddle lazy racists out of voting for racism.
posted by palindromic at 9:09 AM on November 10, 2016 [42 favorites]
Well apparently my link got borked. You can find the New York Times diff map here.
Sorry!
posted by bukvich at 9:09 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
Sorry!
posted by bukvich at 9:09 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
I care far more about demonstrating to people of color, LGBTQ people, immigrants, women, and religious minorities that they are not alone, that there is a place for them in America's halls of power
Why would you want to tell them that?
There is NOT a place for them in America's halls of power today. Don't say it until it's true.
posted by ocschwar at 9:11 AM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
The "Hillary Stole the Nomination, Bernie Would Have Won" stuff is coming fast and furious on my Facebook feed right now. I don't know if/how to handle it. I don't want to let it stand, I don't want to fight about it. I would just get off of Facebook, except that it's where I've been finding so much healthy collective grieving, and support and encouragement and good, challenging writing about racism and misogyny.
I've just hidden a few people for now. You can just turn them off for a bit and not have to see them. Then if your ready to engage later you can just turn them back on.
posted by Jalliah at 9:11 AM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
One of the ways to be a converted conservative or whatever is to listen to PoC and follow their lead.
Passive racists led to Trump being elected. We can't do this alone, we need white liberals' support. There are so many of you and you refuse to stand up when it counts.
posted by zutalors! at 9:11 AM on November 10, 2016 [30 favorites]
Passive racists led to Trump being elected. We can't do this alone, we need white liberals' support. There are so many of you and you refuse to stand up when it counts.
posted by zutalors! at 9:11 AM on November 10, 2016 [30 favorites]
It is clear that the GOP choose power over country and democracy. This naked desire for power is why I will never vote Republican.
In a related thought, I have been telling people for years that the prolife movement was a figleaf for power over women. Maybe they will believe me now.
posted by Gadgetenvy at 9:13 AM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
In a related thought, I have been telling people for years that the prolife movement was a figleaf for power over women. Maybe they will believe me now.
posted by Gadgetenvy at 9:13 AM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
That included scouring potential appointees' social media accounts. Some people were weeded out for having been publicly critical of Trump in the past."
When Giuliani said he was going back to Andrew Jackson, I had no idea he meant the spoils system.
posted by corb at 9:13 AM on November 10, 2016 [10 favorites]
When Giuliani said he was going back to Andrew Jackson, I had no idea he meant the spoils system.
posted by corb at 9:13 AM on November 10, 2016 [10 favorites]
What really absolutely fucking pisses me off so fucking goddamn much is how trans people were thrown off the equality bus FOR DECADES with the promise of "we owe you a solid" and NOW IT'S TOO FUCKING LATE, ASSHOLES.
posted by Annika Cicada at 9:14 AM on November 10, 2016 [29 favorites]
posted by Annika Cicada at 9:14 AM on November 10, 2016 [29 favorites]
Nobody ever decided to vote Democrat because you called them racist n+1 times til they finally said "Welp, they're right about me."
Fine, don't use the word racist then. Think in your head and say something that avoids that terminology and positively supports the lives and rights of people of color.
White folks apparently need to start a list of basic phrases they can use to positively confront racism in their every day lives, that avoid actually using the terms "racist" or "racism." Here, I'll start:
"Please don't talk about African-Americans like that in front of me. I care about them as people and I don't want to hear of them spoken of like that."
posted by scantee at 9:14 AM on November 10, 2016 [46 favorites]
Fine, don't use the word racist then. Think in your head and say something that avoids that terminology and positively supports the lives and rights of people of color.
White folks apparently need to start a list of basic phrases they can use to positively confront racism in their every day lives, that avoid actually using the terms "racist" or "racism." Here, I'll start:
"Please don't talk about African-Americans like that in front of me. I care about them as people and I don't want to hear of them spoken of like that."
posted by scantee at 9:14 AM on November 10, 2016 [46 favorites]
I still can't get over the fact Trump was a candidate who boasted about sexual assault and was elected into office. If, as is apparent, the electorate is okay with that, how in the world do you reach them? What kind of campaigning would have swayed them? It's not about MI or WI or PA. It's about an utter repudiation of the social contract that keeps us women and minorities safe.
posted by lydhre at 9:14 AM on November 10, 2016 [62 favorites]
posted by lydhre at 9:14 AM on November 10, 2016 [62 favorites]
Unless you're planning on non-electoral methods to oust Trump and the people he's bringing with him, calling the people who voted for him racists, and making your electoral efforts about them, is a path to reelecting him, or somebody worse than him.
It shouldn't need to be said that we're speaking a different language here on metafilter than we do when we're canvassing, campaigning, talking with family, doing the social change and reconciliation process. I don't go into conversations and say "you're a homophobe." I go into conversations and say, "this is how I'm affected by these issues as a queer person." That said, the Republican party has a long history of using FUD as a wedge issue in electoral politics, and that IS homophobia.
Put together a platform that addresses the real, material circumstances of a wide swath of the electorate, and make that plan the centerpiece of your run.
WE FUCKING HAD THAT. Go back, listen to the third debate where Clinton presented clear policy ideas and Trump offered nothing but FUD and snake oil. WE HAD THAT, and we had that in 2006 and 2008 when Republican economic policy created a crisis. You can disagree with those policy ideas, but you can't come in here after the fact and claim they never existed.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 9:16 AM on November 10, 2016 [75 favorites]
It shouldn't need to be said that we're speaking a different language here on metafilter than we do when we're canvassing, campaigning, talking with family, doing the social change and reconciliation process. I don't go into conversations and say "you're a homophobe." I go into conversations and say, "this is how I'm affected by these issues as a queer person." That said, the Republican party has a long history of using FUD as a wedge issue in electoral politics, and that IS homophobia.
Put together a platform that addresses the real, material circumstances of a wide swath of the electorate, and make that plan the centerpiece of your run.
WE FUCKING HAD THAT. Go back, listen to the third debate where Clinton presented clear policy ideas and Trump offered nothing but FUD and snake oil. WE HAD THAT, and we had that in 2006 and 2008 when Republican economic policy created a crisis. You can disagree with those policy ideas, but you can't come in here after the fact and claim they never existed.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 9:16 AM on November 10, 2016 [75 favorites]
Trump's website, greatagain.gov, has a big button on it called "Share Your Ideas" where it asks you to tell him how to make America great again.
Personally I think that the entire populace of Metafilter should *ATTACK* that box and each person should tell him in no uncertain terms that we do NOT stand for institutionalized racism and *phobia. Crash his server like we crashed ours.
posted by telepanda at 9:16 AM on November 10, 2016 [22 favorites]
Personally I think that the entire populace of Metafilter should *ATTACK* that box and each person should tell him in no uncertain terms that we do NOT stand for institutionalized racism and *phobia. Crash his server like we crashed ours.
posted by telepanda at 9:16 AM on November 10, 2016 [22 favorites]
As far as potential Cabinet picks, I am actually surprised not to see Scott Walker in the mix for Labor or James Inhofe for EPA.
posted by SisterHavana at 9:17 AM on November 10, 2016
posted by SisterHavana at 9:17 AM on November 10, 2016
Nobody ever decided to vote Democrat because you called them racist n+1 times til they finally said "Welp, they're right about me."
Fine, don't use the word racist then. Think in your head and say something that avoids that terminology and positively supports the lives and rights of people of color.
White folks apparently need to start a list of basic phrases they can use to positively confront racism in their every day lives, that avoid actually using the terms "racist" or "racism." Here, I'll start:
"Please don't talk about African-Americans like that in front of me. I care about them as people and I don't want to hear of them spoken of like that."
Thank you, scantee, this is kind of what I was trying to say.
posted by rocket88 at 9:18 AM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
Fine, don't use the word racist then. Think in your head and say something that avoids that terminology and positively supports the lives and rights of people of color.
White folks apparently need to start a list of basic phrases they can use to positively confront racism in their every day lives, that avoid actually using the terms "racist" or "racism." Here, I'll start:
"Please don't talk about African-Americans like that in front of me. I care about them as people and I don't want to hear of them spoken of like that."
Thank you, scantee, this is kind of what I was trying to say.
posted by rocket88 at 9:18 AM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
There is NOT a place for them in America's halls of power today. Don't say it until it's true.
There is a place for them (us) in the Democratic Party, one of the two major pipelines to political power in the US. That will be less true if Dems fail to rebuke racism and misogyny in hopes of converting some white voters. Just because Dems are out of federal power now does not mean that will always be the case. The Democratic Party needs to demonstrate to members of those groups that they will not be discarded because of this loss.
posted by palindromic at 9:19 AM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
There is a place for them (us) in the Democratic Party, one of the two major pipelines to political power in the US. That will be less true if Dems fail to rebuke racism and misogyny in hopes of converting some white voters. Just because Dems are out of federal power now does not mean that will always be the case. The Democratic Party needs to demonstrate to members of those groups that they will not be discarded because of this loss.
posted by palindromic at 9:19 AM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
President Obama is about to to the press after meeting with president-elect Donald Trump
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:19 AM on November 10, 2016
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:19 AM on November 10, 2016
This is my world. This is what I get to savor now.
"We see you."
"Now we don't"
posted by Annika Cicada at 9:19 AM on November 10, 2016 [7 favorites]
"We see you."
"Now we don't"
posted by Annika Cicada at 9:19 AM on November 10, 2016 [7 favorites]
Fine, don't use the word racist then. Think in your head and say something that avoids that terminology and positively supports the lives and rights of people of color.
No. Think in your head and say something that WORKS for that audience. Not something that validates your self image. And not something that positively supports the lives and rights of people who are not in the audience at that moment. Something that works for that audience.
Always be closing.
Always. Be. Closing.
You want to win elections? CLOSE.
posted by ocschwar at 9:19 AM on November 10, 2016 [11 favorites]
No. Think in your head and say something that WORKS for that audience. Not something that validates your self image. And not something that positively supports the lives and rights of people who are not in the audience at that moment. Something that works for that audience.
Always be closing.
Always. Be. Closing.
You want to win elections? CLOSE.
posted by ocschwar at 9:19 AM on November 10, 2016 [11 favorites]
I've begun the great FB culling, starting with some very close relatives endlessly posting TrumpGloat. Calling them out in person would be more effective and I am thus not wasting energy on graring their posts, hidden or not.
When my mother posted a lol post asking if we would still visit them in Tampa since Florida voted Trump, I bluntly replied that there was no way in hell I would risk relocating back with my foreign husband and my half foreign daughters for the duration of his time in office. Normally liking everything in sight by me and my friends within 5 seconds of it being posted, she hasn't made a peep since. I'm enjoying the silence.
On the plus side, I will no longer have Italians saying "You're American? Why do you want to live here in Italy!?" The other side of that coin is that 8 years of explaining GWB is going to look like a mother fucking cake walk in comparison.
I've decided I've put off getting my Italian citizenship for too long. I'll be applying soon so that I can vote for affecting where my children's most immediate future will be.
And i will stop slacking on absentee balloting non-presidential elections for the US county where I am registered.
I'm done doing the emotional labour of mollycoddling people who make racist, misogynist, bigoted or just plain privileged statements. I'm whiter than pale, cis, mostly het, a raised catholic atheist and I'm officially motherfucking over it; I can't even imagine the level of exhaustion, despair and rage you directly interested peeps fighting against discrimination are feeling right now.
I can handle calling out friends and family. Out in the wild though, my brain tends to shut down my foreign language skills and just sputter in blind rage in such situations, and i end up biting my tongue until it bleeds lest I make things worse. If anyone has resources or scripts that are useful for a tiny white chick to use when calling out this shit in the wild and staying safe at the same time, I'd greatly appreciate it.
posted by romakimmy at 9:20 AM on November 10, 2016 [22 favorites]
When my mother posted a lol post asking if we would still visit them in Tampa since Florida voted Trump, I bluntly replied that there was no way in hell I would risk relocating back with my foreign husband and my half foreign daughters for the duration of his time in office. Normally liking everything in sight by me and my friends within 5 seconds of it being posted, she hasn't made a peep since. I'm enjoying the silence.
On the plus side, I will no longer have Italians saying "You're American? Why do you want to live here in Italy!?" The other side of that coin is that 8 years of explaining GWB is going to look like a mother fucking cake walk in comparison.
I've decided I've put off getting my Italian citizenship for too long. I'll be applying soon so that I can vote for affecting where my children's most immediate future will be.
And i will stop slacking on absentee balloting non-presidential elections for the US county where I am registered.
I'm done doing the emotional labour of mollycoddling people who make racist, misogynist, bigoted or just plain privileged statements. I'm whiter than pale, cis, mostly het, a raised catholic atheist and I'm officially motherfucking over it; I can't even imagine the level of exhaustion, despair and rage you directly interested peeps fighting against discrimination are feeling right now.
I can handle calling out friends and family. Out in the wild though, my brain tends to shut down my foreign language skills and just sputter in blind rage in such situations, and i end up biting my tongue until it bleeds lest I make things worse. If anyone has resources or scripts that are useful for a tiny white chick to use when calling out this shit in the wild and staying safe at the same time, I'd greatly appreciate it.
posted by romakimmy at 9:20 AM on November 10, 2016 [22 favorites]
When Giuliani said he was going back to Andrew Jackson, I had no idea he meant the spoils system.
Honestly when Giuliani said that, I think that might be the strongest I've ever agreed with him. Donald Trump want to be Andrew Jackson; the Trail of Tears might as well be his immigration policy.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 9:21 AM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
Honestly when Giuliani said that, I think that might be the strongest I've ever agreed with him. Donald Trump want to be Andrew Jackson; the Trail of Tears might as well be his immigration policy.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 9:21 AM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
Nobody ever decided to vote Democrat because you called them racist n+1 times til they finally said "Welp, they're right about me."
Fine, don't use the word racist then. Think in your head and say something that avoids that terminology and positively supports the lives and rights of people of color.
White folks apparently need to start a list of basic phrases they can use to positively confront racism in their every day lives, that avoid actually using the terms "racist" or "racism." Here, I'll start:
"Please don't talk about African-Americans like that in front of me. I care about them as people and I don't want to hear of them spoken of like that."
Thanks. I've just realized that there may be a miscommunication around my fairly hardline stance on calling it out vs engaging, means always starting the conversation with 'Hey you're a racist. Hey that's racist. As in always using the specific word. It doesn't mean that.
posted by Jalliah at 9:22 AM on November 10, 2016 [9 favorites]
Fine, don't use the word racist then. Think in your head and say something that avoids that terminology and positively supports the lives and rights of people of color.
White folks apparently need to start a list of basic phrases they can use to positively confront racism in their every day lives, that avoid actually using the terms "racist" or "racism." Here, I'll start:
"Please don't talk about African-Americans like that in front of me. I care about them as people and I don't want to hear of them spoken of like that."
Thanks. I've just realized that there may be a miscommunication around my fairly hardline stance on calling it out vs engaging, means always starting the conversation with 'Hey you're a racist. Hey that's racist. As in always using the specific word. It doesn't mean that.
posted by Jalliah at 9:22 AM on November 10, 2016 [9 favorites]
I don't advocate calling people racists, or racist-supporters, for voting for Trump. I do advocate not spending time with them - not being half-smile friendly at work, not agreeing to go to gatherings where they're present, unfriending them on social media, hanging up when they call. ("Can't talk now; have to go." Not even, "sorry about that.")
For those in jobs where appearing friendly is required, they're in a bind. They'll have to decide whether it's worth putting their careers at risk by not Playing Nice With Douchebags, which has always been women's problem in the workplace. There are ways to manage the minimum "nice" with some people in the office while being as friendly and cooperative as is natural with other, but it's still risky.
And wait. Don't argue, don't offer explanations, don't reach out. Wait for them to ask, "hey are you avoiding me?" At which point, they can say, "Yes - you supported the guy who wants to deport my friends/allow rapists to control their victims' lives/weasel out of our promises to other nations/ignore the growing damage to our planet/etc." (Pick one; no one conversation should hold all of them.) Flat voice, slightly puzzled look, with a tone of, "it's obvious," like you were saying, "Yeah, I'm avoiding you - you're wearing a dead rat around your neck. Who wouldn't?"
This is not a quick, win-the-argument plan. There is no argument to win, here. This is a basic, I don't want to waste my valued and limited emotional energy on people who want to destroy the world I want to live in.
Expect to hear, "but Hillary!" followed by a buzzword: Corporate corruption, emails, not-Bernie, etc. Or, "but it won't be so bad, because _____." And then, you can shrug, and say, "I disagree, because he wants to [repeat point]. And I don't want to spend time with people who think that's okay."
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 9:23 AM on November 10, 2016 [24 favorites]
For those in jobs where appearing friendly is required, they're in a bind. They'll have to decide whether it's worth putting their careers at risk by not Playing Nice With Douchebags, which has always been women's problem in the workplace. There are ways to manage the minimum "nice" with some people in the office while being as friendly and cooperative as is natural with other, but it's still risky.
And wait. Don't argue, don't offer explanations, don't reach out. Wait for them to ask, "hey are you avoiding me?" At which point, they can say, "Yes - you supported the guy who wants to deport my friends/allow rapists to control their victims' lives/weasel out of our promises to other nations/ignore the growing damage to our planet/etc." (Pick one; no one conversation should hold all of them.) Flat voice, slightly puzzled look, with a tone of, "it's obvious," like you were saying, "Yeah, I'm avoiding you - you're wearing a dead rat around your neck. Who wouldn't?"
This is not a quick, win-the-argument plan. There is no argument to win, here. This is a basic, I don't want to waste my valued and limited emotional energy on people who want to destroy the world I want to live in.
Expect to hear, "but Hillary!" followed by a buzzword: Corporate corruption, emails, not-Bernie, etc. Or, "but it won't be so bad, because _____." And then, you can shrug, and say, "I disagree, because he wants to [repeat point]. And I don't want to spend time with people who think that's okay."
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 9:23 AM on November 10, 2016 [24 favorites]
No. Think in your head and say something that WORKS for that audience. Not something that validates your self image. And not something that positively supports the lives and rights of people who are not in the audience at that moment. Something that works for that audience.
Please do give me an example of how to confront everyday racism in a way that also supports the lives and rights of white people. I'm all ears.
posted by scantee at 9:23 AM on November 10, 2016 [9 favorites]
Please do give me an example of how to confront everyday racism in a way that also supports the lives and rights of white people. I'm all ears.
posted by scantee at 9:23 AM on November 10, 2016 [9 favorites]
FWIW with regard to "racist" I like to say "hey, that sounds casually racist..." then go into it from there. I'm a white chick, though, POC, feel free to get as righteously pissed as you need to be.
posted by Annika Cicada at 9:25 AM on November 10, 2016
posted by Annika Cicada at 9:25 AM on November 10, 2016
I'd been too numb with shock to really feel anything except confusion and dismay since the election results were announced. Until just now, when I heard my wife pull my stepdaughter aside and tell her, "Listen to me. Don't tell ANYONE at school you're half Lebanese. Anybody asks, you're German [her father's ethnicity]." So yeah, I'm crying right now.
posted by Rykey at 9:26 AM on November 10, 2016 [22 favorites]
posted by Rykey at 9:26 AM on November 10, 2016 [22 favorites]
Put together a platform that addresses the real, material circumstances of a wide swath of the electorate, and make that plan the centerpiece of your run.
Their primary concern, as has repeatedly been demonstrated, was a loss of status as white people. What platform do you suggest the Democratic Party come up with to address this?
The Democratic Part had a platform to address poverty. It had, and has, successfully addressed the budget. Clinton had platforms for everything.
We cannot successfully address this until we admit what was at the center of this race, the rise of white nationalism. This is the cry of a previously privileged people who see their privilege slipping.
What Clinton got wrong was that she thought if she pointed out Trump was a racist, a plurality of Americans would reject racism. She did not realize just how many Americans would say, racism, sign me up!
Race remains the great unaddressed original sin of America, and now we're being told, again and again, that it must not be named, it must not be addressed, that it is something else, it must be something else.
It's not something else. I mean, there are other concerns, of course, but Trump's campaign wasn't really about those. It was about demonizing non-whites. He specifically targeted Mexicans, Muslims, and the American black community. He got digs in at everyone else who could be othered, of course -- women, Jews, etc. But it was all about establishing who real America is, and identifying the threats to that real America, and by doing so restoring America to its previous position of greatness. And a majority of the rhetoric was explicitly, unambiguously racist.
I mean, for Christ's sakes, if the real, material concerns of Trump voters was economic, they would have attacked banks. They attacked Muslims, black people, Asians, etc. The celebratory war whoop of the Trump vanguard has been hate crimes.
They've told us what they want. We should believe them, because we're not going to change anything by pretending, oh, actually it was about trade deals, actually it was about rising health care costs.
It was about race. It was about racism. We have a large number of racists in this country, and that's the national sin that must be addressed bluntly and clearly.
posted by maxsparber at 9:29 AM on November 10, 2016 [111 favorites]
Their primary concern, as has repeatedly been demonstrated, was a loss of status as white people. What platform do you suggest the Democratic Party come up with to address this?
The Democratic Part had a platform to address poverty. It had, and has, successfully addressed the budget. Clinton had platforms for everything.
We cannot successfully address this until we admit what was at the center of this race, the rise of white nationalism. This is the cry of a previously privileged people who see their privilege slipping.
What Clinton got wrong was that she thought if she pointed out Trump was a racist, a plurality of Americans would reject racism. She did not realize just how many Americans would say, racism, sign me up!
Race remains the great unaddressed original sin of America, and now we're being told, again and again, that it must not be named, it must not be addressed, that it is something else, it must be something else.
It's not something else. I mean, there are other concerns, of course, but Trump's campaign wasn't really about those. It was about demonizing non-whites. He specifically targeted Mexicans, Muslims, and the American black community. He got digs in at everyone else who could be othered, of course -- women, Jews, etc. But it was all about establishing who real America is, and identifying the threats to that real America, and by doing so restoring America to its previous position of greatness. And a majority of the rhetoric was explicitly, unambiguously racist.
I mean, for Christ's sakes, if the real, material concerns of Trump voters was economic, they would have attacked banks. They attacked Muslims, black people, Asians, etc. The celebratory war whoop of the Trump vanguard has been hate crimes.
They've told us what they want. We should believe them, because we're not going to change anything by pretending, oh, actually it was about trade deals, actually it was about rising health care costs.
It was about race. It was about racism. We have a large number of racists in this country, and that's the national sin that must be addressed bluntly and clearly.
posted by maxsparber at 9:29 AM on November 10, 2016 [111 favorites]
No. Think in your head and say something that WORKS for that audience.
Apparently, the solution to thinking before you say something (i.e., being politically correct), is to...think before you say something.
C'mon, man. The truth is it doesn't matter what we say or how we say it. They're minds are made up. They may say they appreciate candor, blunt talk, or "telling it like it is", but they don't.
posted by FJT at 9:29 AM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
Apparently, the solution to thinking before you say something (i.e., being politically correct), is to...think before you say something.
C'mon, man. The truth is it doesn't matter what we say or how we say it. They're minds are made up. They may say they appreciate candor, blunt talk, or "telling it like it is", but they don't.
posted by FJT at 9:29 AM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
I don't think the election result (as awful as it is, which is hella awful) is too much more complicated than "low turnout sunk Clinton." She got 6m fewer votes than Obama did in 2012 (Trump got a few hundred thousand less than Romney did, too). Voter suppression contributed to that, but I think more it was the general shitshow nature of the whole campaign season which kept a lot of votes on the sidelines.
The reported nervousness from the Clinton campaign on election day was maybe the result of them following the turnout numbers early in the day and doing the math. High turnout usually favors Democrats, low turnout favors the GOP.
posted by notyou at 9:30 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
The reported nervousness from the Clinton campaign on election day was maybe the result of them following the turnout numbers early in the day and doing the math. High turnout usually favors Democrats, low turnout favors the GOP.
posted by notyou at 9:30 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
Again, on the recrimination/blame front: when the candidate loses a few swing states by 1 point, almost everything is the cause:
• Electoral college
• Comey
• Polling errors
• Being a woman
• Being establishment
• Third-party voting
• Etc, etc.
There are a dozen things that probably contributed at least a half-point and therefore might have flipped the election. Focusing on the binary outcome is not the way to think about how to improve next time, or even to think about how it might have been improved last time, since almost anything will be the answer, and people will just pick and choose the ideas they most prefer politically. What really matters is figuring out what, if anything, will make a big difference, not a small difference. But I honestly doubt anything would have. A dozen coin flips could have gone the other way and swung the election for her. But absent a very, very different counter-factual history, things would have come out close to the same, vote-wise.
Which is to say, she out-performed the economic models by 4 points. She lost a game originally designed to preserve slavery, and currently rigged to preserve conservative power, by a hair. And she won the popular vote. The outcome is terrible, and I myself would have liked a more populist left campaign. But there's no active evidence that that would have made a big difference given the overwhelming power of partisanship, and it's meaningless to say it would have flipped the election, because almost anything would have. She played almost all her cards right, and lost. It sucks, but the outcome actually tells us very little we didn't already know about America and electoral politics. Which is to say, as polarization increases, slightly less than half of America is getting worse, and slightly more than half of America continues to get better and better.
posted by chortly at 9:32 AM on November 10, 2016 [40 favorites]
• Electoral college
• Comey
• Polling errors
• Being a woman
• Being establishment
• Third-party voting
• Etc, etc.
There are a dozen things that probably contributed at least a half-point and therefore might have flipped the election. Focusing on the binary outcome is not the way to think about how to improve next time, or even to think about how it might have been improved last time, since almost anything will be the answer, and people will just pick and choose the ideas they most prefer politically. What really matters is figuring out what, if anything, will make a big difference, not a small difference. But I honestly doubt anything would have. A dozen coin flips could have gone the other way and swung the election for her. But absent a very, very different counter-factual history, things would have come out close to the same, vote-wise.
Which is to say, she out-performed the economic models by 4 points. She lost a game originally designed to preserve slavery, and currently rigged to preserve conservative power, by a hair. And she won the popular vote. The outcome is terrible, and I myself would have liked a more populist left campaign. But there's no active evidence that that would have made a big difference given the overwhelming power of partisanship, and it's meaningless to say it would have flipped the election, because almost anything would have. She played almost all her cards right, and lost. It sucks, but the outcome actually tells us very little we didn't already know about America and electoral politics. Which is to say, as polarization increases, slightly less than half of America is getting worse, and slightly more than half of America continues to get better and better.
posted by chortly at 9:32 AM on November 10, 2016 [40 favorites]
This article is looking pretty prescient now:
Is Donald Trump Outflanking Hillary Clinton?posted by crazy with stars at 9:33 AM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
The Democratic nominee faces the risk that she has overestimated her hold on the states most central to her strategy...
Put another way, as Clinton has focused her time and money primarily on swing and Republican-leaning states, the question looming over her campaign is whether she has left herself open to a flanking maneuver from Trump in any of the seemingly safe Democratic states that he is now targeting—key among them Colorado, Michigan, and Wisconsin. “For a Republican nominee to breach the ‘blue wall’ of Wisconsin and Michigan, they need to invest in those states and hope for a national tide to come in,” said Brent McGoldrick, the co-founder of the Republican voter-targeting firm Deep Root Analytics. “It’s possible she left herself open to that breach.”
Libby Anne: Meet the Inspiring New Women in Congress:
posted by palindromic at 9:33 AM on November 10, 2016 [15 favorites]
We may not have a woman president this time around, but we do have inspiring new female lawmakers, many of them immigrants or the children of immigrants. These women will be in Congress when Trump sets about building his wall, among other things, and while they may not be able to stop him (that remains to be seen), they will certainly put up a fight. We couldn’t ask for better role models for our daughters.These women represent the kind of Democratic Party I am interested in working with.
posted by palindromic at 9:33 AM on November 10, 2016 [15 favorites]
A living google document for trans people on what we all need to do prior to January 20th.
posted by Annika Cicada at 9:34 AM on November 10, 2016 [16 favorites]
posted by Annika Cicada at 9:34 AM on November 10, 2016 [16 favorites]
This argument about do-I-call-it-racist, do-I-not-call-it-racist...I think it's really about two things and they don't necessarily line up with each other.
Is it just to call people racists for various things? I don't think it's valuable to litigate each and every circumstance in which it is ever said. I'm sure it is often both justified and feels really fucking good to call out. There's value in not having to do the dance of not-injuring-feelings that people usually do, especially that POC usually have to do, in order to get their ideas heard. There's value for the person calling out the racist BS. That is where the value is.
But saying that hardens people and often causes them to double down. It just does. There's lots and lots of research on that that has been on the blue a bunch of times, that when you confront people directly, it forces them to identify more strongly with their stance. When you call someone a racist, sure, sometimes they can be reached, but sometimes it makes them more okay with being racist. Is that just? No. Is it fair? Fuck no. But it is what it is.
At the same time, it's really shitty to ask people who are already all fucked up by this and may get rounded up and put in camps to do the slow gentle walk because it's really hard and all their spoons are taken up by surviving.
So white people, this is all on you. It is just plain not as important for you. I don't care how big an ally you are, it is just not as important to you as it is to the people who are going to suffer from it. You, unlike the people affected, can actually choke down your feelings today and do the slow walk of "Do you really think all Hispanic people should be deported? Do you really think all Muslims should be denied entry? That...doesn't sound like the America I believe in. Is that really what you feel?" You guys can do it, because even the veryvery best of you are still affected by it less and so have more reserves. And we need you to do it, because the slow walk is the most effective and because 60 million people who are okay with racism are not going to die tomorrow and you can't just wait for them to go away.
posted by corb at 9:34 AM on November 10, 2016 [86 favorites]
Is it just to call people racists for various things? I don't think it's valuable to litigate each and every circumstance in which it is ever said. I'm sure it is often both justified and feels really fucking good to call out. There's value in not having to do the dance of not-injuring-feelings that people usually do, especially that POC usually have to do, in order to get their ideas heard. There's value for the person calling out the racist BS. That is where the value is.
But saying that hardens people and often causes them to double down. It just does. There's lots and lots of research on that that has been on the blue a bunch of times, that when you confront people directly, it forces them to identify more strongly with their stance. When you call someone a racist, sure, sometimes they can be reached, but sometimes it makes them more okay with being racist. Is that just? No. Is it fair? Fuck no. But it is what it is.
At the same time, it's really shitty to ask people who are already all fucked up by this and may get rounded up and put in camps to do the slow gentle walk because it's really hard and all their spoons are taken up by surviving.
So white people, this is all on you. It is just plain not as important for you. I don't care how big an ally you are, it is just not as important to you as it is to the people who are going to suffer from it. You, unlike the people affected, can actually choke down your feelings today and do the slow walk of "Do you really think all Hispanic people should be deported? Do you really think all Muslims should be denied entry? That...doesn't sound like the America I believe in. Is that really what you feel?" You guys can do it, because even the veryvery best of you are still affected by it less and so have more reserves. And we need you to do it, because the slow walk is the most effective and because 60 million people who are okay with racism are not going to die tomorrow and you can't just wait for them to go away.
posted by corb at 9:34 AM on November 10, 2016 [86 favorites]
And on the other hand. Us white people need to get over ourselves when POC, use plain speech on her own blog addressed to her own audience of readers to address the racism of U.S. politics. Especially someone like Jemisin who has been the target of a very public campaign to drive her out of her chosen profession because she's a WOC who writes about race, class, and gender.
Seriously, one of the worst things about political speech on the internet is how deep linking makes everything so removed from context that key parts of meaning and voice get erased. It's one of the reasons why I keep shouting TWITTER IS NOT NEWS. There's a time and a place for coalition building and a time and a place for anger. Part of creating coalitions means recognizing when a speech or a text is not for you, not about you, and not an example to use for tone policing non-existent electoral campaigns.
we can do the emotional labor of letting people vent without getting snippy about it. People are terrified and rightfully. Let's be kind to each other, ok?
THIS! Especially when we're not even looking at a primary season.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 9:36 AM on November 10, 2016 [13 favorites]
Seriously, one of the worst things about political speech on the internet is how deep linking makes everything so removed from context that key parts of meaning and voice get erased. It's one of the reasons why I keep shouting TWITTER IS NOT NEWS. There's a time and a place for coalition building and a time and a place for anger. Part of creating coalitions means recognizing when a speech or a text is not for you, not about you, and not an example to use for tone policing non-existent electoral campaigns.
we can do the emotional labor of letting people vent without getting snippy about it. People are terrified and rightfully. Let's be kind to each other, ok?
THIS! Especially when we're not even looking at a primary season.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 9:36 AM on November 10, 2016 [13 favorites]
Please do give me an example of how to confront everyday racism in a way that also supports the lives and rights of white people. I'm all ears.
Here's an example:
Bills to regulate the training of police officers in order to stop and reverse the militarization of police forces, and reduce the frequency with which police resort to gunfire.
It would do nothing to address the discriminatory treatment black citizens receive at the hands of the police, but it would mean they would survive those incidents. Fewer Mike Browns. More incidents like Professor Henry Louis Gates's arrest in MA.
It would be a cynical pander to the "all lives matter" argument, in so much as it would also address the frequent-though-not-as-frequent police killing of white citizens and paper over the discrepancy. BUt. It. Would. Work.
And that is what matters.
posted by ocschwar at 9:36 AM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
Here's an example:
Bills to regulate the training of police officers in order to stop and reverse the militarization of police forces, and reduce the frequency with which police resort to gunfire.
It would do nothing to address the discriminatory treatment black citizens receive at the hands of the police, but it would mean they would survive those incidents. Fewer Mike Browns. More incidents like Professor Henry Louis Gates's arrest in MA.
It would be a cynical pander to the "all lives matter" argument, in so much as it would also address the frequent-though-not-as-frequent police killing of white citizens and paper over the discrepancy. BUt. It. Would. Work.
And that is what matters.
posted by ocschwar at 9:36 AM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
There's value in not having to do the dance of not-injuring-feelings that people usually do, especially that POC usually have to do, in order to get their ideas heard.
Emotional Labour Thread strikes again.
posted by tobascodagama at 9:36 AM on November 10, 2016 [10 favorites]
Emotional Labour Thread strikes again.
posted by tobascodagama at 9:36 AM on November 10, 2016 [10 favorites]
This is a really great, succinct piece by Mefi's own jscalzi about how voting Trump was voting for racism even if one doesn't think of themselves as "racist":
The Cinemax Theory of Racism
The Cinemax Theory of Racism
For the Trump voters, Trump’s racism may have been just part of the package deal, the Cinemax they had accept to get the HBO. For those who are the target of that racism (and sexism, and homophobia), however, it’s not Cinemax. It’s their lives. Day to day, and every day. And they’re all too aware of what Trump voters signed up for, to get what they wanted.posted by dnash at 9:36 AM on November 10, 2016 [44 favorites]
Annika Cicada, do you know who created that document or who to contact to edit it?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:37 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:37 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
Here's hoping Trump's presidency goes better than his time with the USFL.
posted by drezdn at 9:38 AM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by drezdn at 9:38 AM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
I mean, for Christ's sakes, if the real, material concerns of Trump voters was economic, they would have attacked banks. They attacked Muslims, black people, Asians, etc. The celebratory war whoop of the Trump vanguard has been hate crimes.
They've told us what they want. We should believe them, because we're not going to change anything by pretending, oh, actually it was about trade deals, actually it was about rising health care costs.
Maya Angelou has been running through my head since yesterday afternoon:
“When someone shows you who they are believe them; the first time.”
Other examples: Watch news tapes of Trump rallies. Watch recordings of people who went to them.
Loads of antisemetic attacks at journalists
And if not so racist, not so misogynist, not so antisemitic all of the casual Trump supporters didn't pay attention enough to know this is what they supported?
???
I dunno. It's okay and they get a pass for ignorance?
posted by Jalliah at 9:39 AM on November 10, 2016 [8 favorites]
They've told us what they want. We should believe them, because we're not going to change anything by pretending, oh, actually it was about trade deals, actually it was about rising health care costs.
Maya Angelou has been running through my head since yesterday afternoon:
“When someone shows you who they are believe them; the first time.”
Other examples: Watch news tapes of Trump rallies. Watch recordings of people who went to them.
Loads of antisemetic attacks at journalists
And if not so racist, not so misogynist, not so antisemitic all of the casual Trump supporters didn't pay attention enough to know this is what they supported?
???
I dunno. It's okay and they get a pass for ignorance?
posted by Jalliah at 9:39 AM on November 10, 2016 [8 favorites]
Here's hoping Trump's presidency goes better than his time with the USFL.
For real. The last thing we need is Roger Goodell somehow getting more power.
posted by palindromic at 9:40 AM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
For real. The last thing we need is Roger Goodell somehow getting more power.
posted by palindromic at 9:40 AM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
via The Guardian's live blog:
The Obamas canceled a photo-op of the current and future first couples outside the south entrance of the White House, the Wall Street Journal reports.
But we’re about to get photos from inside the Oval office.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:40 AM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
The Obamas canceled a photo-op of the current and future first couples outside the south entrance of the White House, the Wall Street Journal reports.
But we’re about to get photos from inside the Oval office.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:40 AM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
I'm kind of hoping that Clinton and Obama don't fade into the background as is expected of failed candidates and ex presidents, and come back swinging as a feminist and civil rights organizer.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 9:41 AM on November 10, 2016 [36 favorites]
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 9:41 AM on November 10, 2016 [36 favorites]
I admire the hell out of the folks who are capable of being more focused than I am right now, and I say that by way of apology if I appear to be jumping all over the damned place with this, but:
I get the postmortems on what happened on election day and the possible missteps that led to it, and I think it'll be important to know what will/won't work going into 2018 and beyond, but I find I'm really, really concerned with what can be done in the next 70 days to insulate the people who will be standing in the cold the moment the president elect takes office.
Is it possible to call on President Obama to do what he can? Is there anything a lame duck president CAN do?
posted by Mooski at 9:42 AM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
I get the postmortems on what happened on election day and the possible missteps that led to it, and I think it'll be important to know what will/won't work going into 2018 and beyond, but I find I'm really, really concerned with what can be done in the next 70 days to insulate the people who will be standing in the cold the moment the president elect takes office.
Is it possible to call on President Obama to do what he can? Is there anything a lame duck president CAN do?
posted by Mooski at 9:42 AM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
Bills to regulate the training of police officers in order to stop and reverse the militarization of police forces, and reduce the frequency with which police resort to gunfire.
We are speaking past each other. When ol' uncle Jerry starts rambling at Thanksgiving about how how he thinks the Mexicans are coming to take his job, launching into a discussion of police training policy minutiae is going to go completely over his head. You can't fight emotion--especially the basest of emotions, fear--with facts, you can only effectively confront it with other, more positively framed emotions.
posted by scantee at 9:42 AM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
We are speaking past each other. When ol' uncle Jerry starts rambling at Thanksgiving about how how he thinks the Mexicans are coming to take his job, launching into a discussion of police training policy minutiae is going to go completely over his head. You can't fight emotion--especially the basest of emotions, fear--with facts, you can only effectively confront it with other, more positively framed emotions.
posted by scantee at 9:42 AM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
I went in for a permanent birth control consultation this morning. The good news is that the doctor consented and I'll be baby-free by the end of the year! The bad news is that her office has been swamped for the last day by women making similar appointments and scheduling IUD insertions. Women are battening down the hatches and it is sick that we have to expedite such things ahead of what may come.
posted by theraflu at 9:44 AM on November 10, 2016 [33 favorites]
posted by theraflu at 9:44 AM on November 10, 2016 [33 favorites]
Bills to regulate the training of police officers in order to stop and reverse the militarization of police forces, and reduce the frequency with which police resort to gunfire.
Been tried. Doesn't work:
Stamper's description of this culture is damning: "Military, bureaucratic, insulated, isolated—giving rise to a real strong in-group solidarity among the officers, and that is more powerful than eight hours or even 60 hours of training."
Disturbingly, he adds: "What you will hear from many senior officers is, 'Forget that nonsense that they teach you in the academy, you're in the real world now.'"
You know what does work? Training for racial bias. Hiring a more diverse work force. Matching the racial makeup of the community. Greater accountability.
You know. The things that start with explicitly recognizing that racism is a problem.
posted by maxsparber at 9:44 AM on November 10, 2016 [39 favorites]
Been tried. Doesn't work:
Stamper's description of this culture is damning: "Military, bureaucratic, insulated, isolated—giving rise to a real strong in-group solidarity among the officers, and that is more powerful than eight hours or even 60 hours of training."
Disturbingly, he adds: "What you will hear from many senior officers is, 'Forget that nonsense that they teach you in the academy, you're in the real world now.'"
You know what does work? Training for racial bias. Hiring a more diverse work force. Matching the racial makeup of the community. Greater accountability.
You know. The things that start with explicitly recognizing that racism is a problem.
posted by maxsparber at 9:44 AM on November 10, 2016 [39 favorites]
Here's hoping Trump's presidency goes better than his time with the USFL.
He sues the people of American and wins, but only get $1.
posted by nubs at 9:45 AM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
He sues the people of American and wins, but only get $1.
posted by nubs at 9:45 AM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
When ol' uncle Jerry starts rambling at Thanksgiving about how how he thinks the Mexicans are coming to take his job, launching into a discussion of police training policy minutiae is going to go completely over his head.
When uncle Jerry rants at the table, you sit on your hands and talk about football.
Meanwhile, when you go out to try to win blue collar white voters for the next Democratic ballot, you prepare an agenda and presentation that works for that audience.
posted by ocschwar at 9:45 AM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
When uncle Jerry rants at the table, you sit on your hands and talk about football.
Meanwhile, when you go out to try to win blue collar white voters for the next Democratic ballot, you prepare an agenda and presentation that works for that audience.
posted by ocschwar at 9:45 AM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
Guardian:
Obama said the number one priority was to ensure a smooth transition, so Trump could be a successful president.
“If he succeeds, the country succeeds,” Obama said.
Trump said he had “respect for the president” and said they talked about some wonderful things and some difficult things.
Asked if he would seek the advice of the president, Trump said Obama was a “very fine man.”
Trump also boasted of how long their meeting had been. He said it was scheduled for ten minutes but lasted for an hour and a half, and could have gone on much longer.
In short remarks, the president said the two had an “excellent conversation.”
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:45 AM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
Obama said the number one priority was to ensure a smooth transition, so Trump could be a successful president.
“If he succeeds, the country succeeds,” Obama said.
Trump said he had “respect for the president” and said they talked about some wonderful things and some difficult things.
Asked if he would seek the advice of the president, Trump said Obama was a “very fine man.”
Trump also boasted of how long their meeting had been. He said it was scheduled for ten minutes but lasted for an hour and a half, and could have gone on much longer.
In short remarks, the president said the two had an “excellent conversation.”
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:45 AM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
I'm looking to history trying to understand better the present, and I keep going back to Weimar Republic in terms of a "golden age" of social enlightenment (which was quite possibly even more progressive than anywhere today) and what happened there as the social contract restricted support for LGBT/POC people and began moving towards white nationalism.
I found this article that goes into myriad reasons for the fall, and this really stuck out for me:
"Germany’s post-war constitution has shouldered much of the blame for the political instability of the 1920s. The men who drafted the constitution in 1919 attempted to construct a political system not unlike that of the United States, incorporating democracy, federalism, checks and balances and protection of individual rights. Tellingly, they created an executive presidency who had considerable emergency powers, allowing him to bypass or override the elected Reichstag. Some historians suggest the Weimar president – with his seven year term and these hefty emergency powers – was not far removed from the former kaiser. Stalemates in the Reichstag meant the president’s emergency powers were frequently called into action, which only enhanced and worsened political divisions."
Expanded emergency powers for the president...hm...
posted by Annika Cicada at 9:47 AM on November 10, 2016 [9 favorites]
I found this article that goes into myriad reasons for the fall, and this really stuck out for me:
"Germany’s post-war constitution has shouldered much of the blame for the political instability of the 1920s. The men who drafted the constitution in 1919 attempted to construct a political system not unlike that of the United States, incorporating democracy, federalism, checks and balances and protection of individual rights. Tellingly, they created an executive presidency who had considerable emergency powers, allowing him to bypass or override the elected Reichstag. Some historians suggest the Weimar president – with his seven year term and these hefty emergency powers – was not far removed from the former kaiser. Stalemates in the Reichstag meant the president’s emergency powers were frequently called into action, which only enhanced and worsened political divisions."
Expanded emergency powers for the president...hm...
posted by Annika Cicada at 9:47 AM on November 10, 2016 [9 favorites]
I found this Twitter thread helpful in thinking about the narrative that we just don't care about Trump voters/need to understand them more. Still thinking about it a lot. Clearly, just being nice/using policy positions isn't working. I don't want to "fight dirty" in a way that would make me abandon my values. So how do I approach/deal with the folks who made this happen? What can be done? That's the thinking I want to be doing. I've got my white privilege but I don't always know the best way to use it for good.
posted by emjaybee at 9:47 AM on November 10, 2016
posted by emjaybee at 9:47 AM on November 10, 2016
Here is the thing about "just be nice" that occurs to me.
You've all read The Handmaid's Tale, right? You know how when women suddenly don't have bank account access anymore and their rights start getting seriously restricted, the narrator's husband is very upset at first, and we start to see him becoming more comfortable with power? He's not even a bad guy and he certainly doesn't do anything markedly bad; it's just that power is very hard to avoid when society gives it to you, and he doesn't fully understand how bad things are for the narrator because he himself is not experiencing them.
And here's what I'm worried about:
That they will start gradually - on one hand, isolated incidents of blood and fire will be permitted, as they are right now, today; on the other, small steps to identify out-groups and take our rights. A pink triangle on our drivers' licenses or something, for instance. First getting rid of equal employment rights laws for POC and women, then letting that percolate for a while so that default, unconscious discrimination gets more power, and then actual laws that are themselves actively disciminatory. Arrests and camps for small groups - either subsets of marginalized people (GLBTQ people suspected of doing sex work, for instance; Muslims from certain mosques) or marginalized people who are themselves few in number.
It will be very slow, and white straight men of conscience will be sympathetic at first. But there won't be much they can do - hold a rally, write a letter - that isn't actually useless. And little by little, they will get used to not needing to be fair to women or POC or gay people. Little by little, where they would once have said to themselves "well, I am uncomfortable with gender non-comforming job candidates, potential lessors, clients, business owners, etc...but I am going to push through that" they will let themselves say "I don't want some kind of flaming gay guy in my department; I don't want an ugly butch woman renting in my apartment" and they just won't think about it very much.
After five years or so of slow, bit-by-bit steps toward marginalization, people who would be opposed to dramatic measures will come to accept dramatic results. That's how it has worked historically. You bribe the ruling group with bits of power that they don't even realize that they are accepting, you marginalize the outgroups little by little, and eventually even extreme acts of violence and injustice are normalized and consented to.
This is why I don't have a lot of faith in being nice. You wouldn't know it online, but in life I'm a really go-along-to-get-along person, and what I've been realizing lately is that no matter how nice, charming, charismatic and friendly I am, that doesn't stop straight cis men from threatening me with violence. And if it doesn't work now, how will it work in five years when every document I have has a pink triangle on it?
It's not even that I'm opposed to being nice - it's that it doesn't work.
posted by Frowner at 9:47 AM on November 10, 2016 [144 favorites]
You've all read The Handmaid's Tale, right? You know how when women suddenly don't have bank account access anymore and their rights start getting seriously restricted, the narrator's husband is very upset at first, and we start to see him becoming more comfortable with power? He's not even a bad guy and he certainly doesn't do anything markedly bad; it's just that power is very hard to avoid when society gives it to you, and he doesn't fully understand how bad things are for the narrator because he himself is not experiencing them.
And here's what I'm worried about:
That they will start gradually - on one hand, isolated incidents of blood and fire will be permitted, as they are right now, today; on the other, small steps to identify out-groups and take our rights. A pink triangle on our drivers' licenses or something, for instance. First getting rid of equal employment rights laws for POC and women, then letting that percolate for a while so that default, unconscious discrimination gets more power, and then actual laws that are themselves actively disciminatory. Arrests and camps for small groups - either subsets of marginalized people (GLBTQ people suspected of doing sex work, for instance; Muslims from certain mosques) or marginalized people who are themselves few in number.
It will be very slow, and white straight men of conscience will be sympathetic at first. But there won't be much they can do - hold a rally, write a letter - that isn't actually useless. And little by little, they will get used to not needing to be fair to women or POC or gay people. Little by little, where they would once have said to themselves "well, I am uncomfortable with gender non-comforming job candidates, potential lessors, clients, business owners, etc...but I am going to push through that" they will let themselves say "I don't want some kind of flaming gay guy in my department; I don't want an ugly butch woman renting in my apartment" and they just won't think about it very much.
After five years or so of slow, bit-by-bit steps toward marginalization, people who would be opposed to dramatic measures will come to accept dramatic results. That's how it has worked historically. You bribe the ruling group with bits of power that they don't even realize that they are accepting, you marginalize the outgroups little by little, and eventually even extreme acts of violence and injustice are normalized and consented to.
This is why I don't have a lot of faith in being nice. You wouldn't know it online, but in life I'm a really go-along-to-get-along person, and what I've been realizing lately is that no matter how nice, charming, charismatic and friendly I am, that doesn't stop straight cis men from threatening me with violence. And if it doesn't work now, how will it work in five years when every document I have has a pink triangle on it?
It's not even that I'm opposed to being nice - it's that it doesn't work.
posted by Frowner at 9:47 AM on November 10, 2016 [144 favorites]
drezdn : Trump is considering the JP Morgan CEO for a Treasury Post.
Yup, that's exactly how they get you, "Hope and change!" means a Citigroup COO, while "Make America Great Again" means a JP Morgan CEO.
There is a world of difference once you get into cabinet positions like secretary of the interior though.
posted by jeffburdges at 9:47 AM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
Yup, that's exactly how they get you, "Hope and change!" means a Citigroup COO, while "Make America Great Again" means a JP Morgan CEO.
There is a world of difference once you get into cabinet positions like secretary of the interior though.
posted by jeffburdges at 9:47 AM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
So are Bernie Sanders and his supporters going to start a new political party? Now is the time.
posted by molecicco at 9:48 AM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by molecicco at 9:48 AM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
When uncle Jerry rants at the table, you sit on your hands and talk about football.
I have close family friend Jewish Professor Eli coming to thanksgiving so Uncle Jerry (or rather, cousin Trumpkin) might want to stick it up his ass.
posted by Talez at 9:48 AM on November 10, 2016 [8 favorites]
I have close family friend Jewish Professor Eli coming to thanksgiving so Uncle Jerry (or rather, cousin Trumpkin) might want to stick it up his ass.
posted by Talez at 9:48 AM on November 10, 2016 [8 favorites]
So are Bernie Sanders and his supporters going to start a new political party? Now is the time.
"The Gang starts an accelerationist party"
Lovely.
posted by Annika Cicada at 9:50 AM on November 10, 2016 [9 favorites]
"The Gang starts an accelerationist party"
Lovely.
posted by Annika Cicada at 9:50 AM on November 10, 2016 [9 favorites]
When uncle Jerry rants at the table, you sit on your hands and talk about football.
When no one calls racists on their racism they think everyone agrees with them and it empowers them. Please don't empower racists.
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 9:51 AM on November 10, 2016 [31 favorites]
When no one calls racists on their racism they think everyone agrees with them and it empowers them. Please don't empower racists.
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 9:51 AM on November 10, 2016 [31 favorites]
So are Bernie Sanders and his supporters going to start a new political party? Now is the time.
I'd rather sit back and watch Trump's inevitable disastrous divisiveness tear apart the Republican Party. If you look at his history -- which he will absolutely duplicate in office, because he is not suddenly going to be a new Trump now that he is president -- he can't hold a team together for longer than a few months, and then spends years afterward engaged in acrimonious lawsuits and countersuits.
He apparently already has a hit list of Republicans he thinks wronged him, and will go after them with a vengeance. People thought he was going to put Hillary in jail. No, his greatest rage is reserved for those he thinks betrayed him.
posted by maxsparber at 9:54 AM on November 10, 2016 [8 favorites]
I'd rather sit back and watch Trump's inevitable disastrous divisiveness tear apart the Republican Party. If you look at his history -- which he will absolutely duplicate in office, because he is not suddenly going to be a new Trump now that he is president -- he can't hold a team together for longer than a few months, and then spends years afterward engaged in acrimonious lawsuits and countersuits.
He apparently already has a hit list of Republicans he thinks wronged him, and will go after them with a vengeance. People thought he was going to put Hillary in jail. No, his greatest rage is reserved for those he thinks betrayed him.
posted by maxsparber at 9:54 AM on November 10, 2016 [8 favorites]
I don't mean "don't be thoughtful about how you communicate with your audience" because I think that's good to do if you feel that you have the available emotional energy but seriously can we not tell people to ignore racism to convert racists to our side? Isn't that sort of burn the village in order to save it territory? I'd like to change minds but I'm not really trying to get active racists on board because then I'm on board with a bunch of racists and the last thing I want is for both parties to feel like they are actively beholden to vocal racists.
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 9:54 AM on November 10, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 9:54 AM on November 10, 2016 [11 favorites]
What exactly can be easily refuted via Snopes? That DNC is corrupt? That they, led by Debbie Wasserman Schultz undermined Sanders campaign to nominate Clinton? That NYT and other Democratic establishment media continuously ran biased coverage of Sanders campaign to ensure a Clinton nomination? That Donna Brazile sent debate questions to Clinton? Which ones of these are lies?
All of them? Do you want to go back to the e election threads during the primaries? Where is your proof the NYT slandered Bernie unfairly, other than your feelings? Because there have been a few studies of media coverage out, and Bernie received significantly more positive coverage than Clinton.
Where is your proof the DNC was actively undermining Bernie? Emails that say "I don't like him", sent after Super Tuesday when Clinton had the election in the bag, are not voter suppression, they are not sabotage, they're expressions of personal opinion.
The thing with Donna Brazile was real shitty--and also only affected the election after Super Tuesday.
Ever since Bill ran for President, the media has pushed a narrative about Hillary's supposed corruption. Oh, she knows such-and-such who did Bad Thing? Look at the implication! You pile enough "think of the implications" together, push them long enough, and despite the fact she's been investigated and vetted more times than any other candidate ever, people assume that they add up to something real.
It works so well because we are primed to think of ambitious women as conniving, power-hungry, and unnatural. The entire story about her has always come back to that, and ultimately always without viable proof.
Somewhat related--people seem to forget that Clinton won the primaries on the support of POC. You can argue Bernie would've gotten more white people--and I can argue that he would've gotten less POC.
I hope someone does an analysis of states no longer covered by the VRA and ones that instituted voter ID laws versus turnout among Democratic-leaning groups, because I suspect that we'll find a correlation between the two.
posted by Anonymous at 9:55 AM on November 10, 2016
Trump will wise up and lean on him for counsel.
Does that seem like something Trump would do?
posted by drezdn at 9:55 AM on November 10, 2016 [11 favorites]
Does that seem like something Trump would do?
posted by drezdn at 9:55 AM on November 10, 2016 [11 favorites]
This is could be an interesting turn of events in true.
BREAKING: Sheriffs LEAVE Standing Rock, Saying ‘It’s Completely Unethical’
Widespread outrage over both the construction of the Dakota Access Pipeline and violent police crackdowns rages on. That outrage is spreading even to police agencies now returning from deployment to the reservation. Two departments have already refused to return, citing personal and public objections. As if that wasn’t enough, an army of sympathizers is re-purposing social media to combat police efforts in Standing Rock.
Minnesota’s Hennepin County Sheriff’s Department is among that group. Lawmakers, according to MPR News, found police activities in Standing Rock “inappropriate”. It’s to the point where they’re considering rewriting legislation to avoid future deployments to incidents like the pipeline resistance.
It's also pertinent to the election because Donald has financial investments in the company building the pipeline.
posted by Jalliah at 9:55 AM on November 10, 2016 [53 favorites]
What Would Molly Ivins Say?
(Very short video from last year, but now more relevant than ever. It's not much, but it might make your heart feel a tiny bit better for at least a couple minutes, especially if you're from Texas.)
posted by Atom Eyes at 9:55 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
(Very short video from last year, but now more relevant than ever. It's not much, but it might make your heart feel a tiny bit better for at least a couple minutes, especially if you're from Texas.)
posted by Atom Eyes at 9:55 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
Where I'm at right now: in taking solace in the fact that, since I live in Hawaii near military bases, I'll be evaporated in the first wave of nuclear explosions and won't have to live out Fury Road.
posted by Joey Michaels at 9:56 AM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 9:56 AM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
The best thing ever would be if Trump started palling around publicly with HRC and the Obamas. It wouldn't matter if he made the Rust Belt all shining cities paved with gold, they would vote him right out.
posted by zutalors! at 9:56 AM on November 10, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by zutalors! at 9:56 AM on November 10, 2016 [11 favorites]
Preliminary analysis of why the polls were so far off, from Electoral Vote. Nothing hugely insightful, but the table showing the discrepancy is striking.
posted by Coventry at 9:56 AM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Coventry at 9:56 AM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
It works so well because we are primed to think of ambitious women as conniving, power-hungry, and unnatural.
Shakespeare did it first!
posted by threetwentytwo at 9:58 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
Shakespeare did it first!
posted by threetwentytwo at 9:58 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
When uncle Jerry rants at the table, you sit on your hands and talk about football.
What? No. You call him out on it, or leave. If you can't talk to your own family about this stuff, then I'm not sure what family means anymore that would be so important as to make racism acceptable.
The notion of not embarrassing the older folks has got to go. They're adults, they not only can handle all the same talk about reality you can, they've lived through it too, and if they're the ones spewing hatred, then, well, figure out where to stand because your family might end up on the side persecuting others rather than on the side of justice, so it'd be nice to know now if you're going to stand with them or with those being persecuted so others can note whose trust they might not really have.
posted by gusottertrout at 9:59 AM on November 10, 2016 [45 favorites]
What? No. You call him out on it, or leave. If you can't talk to your own family about this stuff, then I'm not sure what family means anymore that would be so important as to make racism acceptable.
The notion of not embarrassing the older folks has got to go. They're adults, they not only can handle all the same talk about reality you can, they've lived through it too, and if they're the ones spewing hatred, then, well, figure out where to stand because your family might end up on the side persecuting others rather than on the side of justice, so it'd be nice to know now if you're going to stand with them or with those being persecuted so others can note whose trust they might not really have.
posted by gusottertrout at 9:59 AM on November 10, 2016 [45 favorites]
Does that seem like something Trump would do?
Trump likes people who suck up to him or at least pretend too. I could see him doing that because in his mind he gets to shove his power in the guy he beat face. (Trump was running against Obama in his mind as much as he was Hillary)
Obama, if he has the desire, has enough smarts to know how to manipulate this man if he has the chance. I could totally see him playing the sucking up to Trump game for the good of the country.
posted by Jalliah at 9:59 AM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
Trump likes people who suck up to him or at least pretend too. I could see him doing that because in his mind he gets to shove his power in the guy he beat face. (Trump was running against Obama in his mind as much as he was Hillary)
Obama, if he has the desire, has enough smarts to know how to manipulate this man if he has the chance. I could totally see him playing the sucking up to Trump game for the good of the country.
posted by Jalliah at 9:59 AM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
Here's something.
https://www.greatagain.gov/serve-america.html
I mean, the campaign ad writes itself.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 10:00 AM on November 10, 2016 [32 favorites]
https://www.greatagain.gov/serve-america.html
APPLYING TO WORK IN THE ADMINISTRATIONWithout me spending all day looking up every example, let's dig into that.
All those wishing to apply for positions in the Trump-Pence Transition, Executive Office of the President, or a Federal Department, Agency or Commission should follow the instructions below:
...
You will be asked fill out a Personal Data Statement if you are considered for a specific position. You will be asked about possible conflicts of interest deriving from your sources of income; all aspects of your personal and professional life, including organization which you belong or once belonged; speeches you may have given and books, articles and editorials you may have written; legal, administrative and regulatory proceedings to which you may have been a party; in short, anything that might embarrass the President or you if he should choose you for a position in his administration. [Emphasis in the original]
- You will be asked about possible conflicts of interest deriving from your sources of income;
"Donald Trump’s stunning victory will force the United States to confront a series of never-before-seen entanglements over the president’s private business, debts and rocky financial history." - Washington Post, November 9th
- all aspects of your personal and professional life,
"Well, I'll tell you the funniest is that before a show, I'll go backstage and everyone's getting dressed, and everything else, and you know, no men are anywhere, and I'm allowed to go in because I'm the owner of the pageant and therefore I'm inspecting it," Trump said. "You know, I'm inspecting because I want to make sure that everything is good." "You know, the dresses. 'Is everyone okay?' You know, they're standing there with no clothes. 'Is everybody okay?' And you see these incredible looking women, and so, I sort of get away with things like that. But no, I've been very good," he added. - CNN with clips from The Howard Stern Show
- including organization which you belong or once belonged;
I got nothing for this one. Congrats, Mr. President Elect.
- speeches you may have given and books, articles and editorials you may have written;
- (off the top of my head)
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump_and_Billy_Bush_recording_controversy
- "Donald Trump on Thursday adamantly denied claims he forced himself on a People Magazine journalist more than a decade ago, responding to her accusation of sexual assault by saying, 'Look at her ... I don't think so.'" - CNN, October 13th
- Here Are All the Times Donald Trump Insulted Mexico (In chronological order) - Time, August 31
- legal, administrative and regulatory proceedings to which you may have been a party;
Donald Trump: Three decades. 4,095 lawsuits. -USA Today
President-elect Trump due to appear in court at trial starting later this month
The Republican nominee will have to juggle his legal headaches as he prepares for the White House. - Politico, November 9th - in short, anything that might embarrass the President or you if he should choose you for a position in his administration.
I mean, the campaign ad writes itself.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 10:00 AM on November 10, 2016 [32 favorites]
Just sent a note over to Obama about how he should pardon record numbers of federal prisoners as he closes his presidency, and this pops up after the message was sent:
posted by palindromic at 10:00 AM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
To share your reflections with President Obama, please use the form below.[vomits]
If you are trying to contact President-Elect Trump, visit www.greatagain.gov.
posted by palindromic at 10:00 AM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
So are Bernie Sanders and his supporters going to start a new political party? Now is the time.
No. No it is not. Now is the time to form a coalition, organize, syndicate, push hard on the Dems (and Rs) at every level, and make fucking sure that more progressives get in office at every level. And be nice to each other.
posted by aspersioncast at 10:00 AM on November 10, 2016 [29 favorites]
No. No it is not. Now is the time to form a coalition, organize, syndicate, push hard on the Dems (and Rs) at every level, and make fucking sure that more progressives get in office at every level. And be nice to each other.
posted by aspersioncast at 10:00 AM on November 10, 2016 [29 favorites]
When ol' uncle Jerry starts rambling at Thanksgiving about how how he thinks the Mexicans are coming to take his job,
Tell him that if he's good at his job, he has nothing to fear. There's always someone younger and more desperate and willing to work for lower wages... the solution to that is competence and company culture; otherwise he's just as likely to lose his job to a white couch-surfing college dropout.
Tell him that the Mexicans you know don't care about his job; which Mexicans does he think want his job? Remind him that "Mexicans" are not a social club with a few dozen members.
Ask if he's worried about Germans taking his job - I know several undocumented immigrants from Europe who struggling to find fake paperwork to stay in the US.
Or leave the table, leave the room, maybe leave the gathering. "I have friends who come from Mexico, and they have just as much right to a job as you do. If you aren't the better worker, you don't deserve the job."
If he falls back on, "I meant illegal Mexicans!" you can say, "then the problem is your employer breaking the law."
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 10:03 AM on November 10, 2016 [15 favorites]
Tell him that if he's good at his job, he has nothing to fear. There's always someone younger and more desperate and willing to work for lower wages... the solution to that is competence and company culture; otherwise he's just as likely to lose his job to a white couch-surfing college dropout.
Tell him that the Mexicans you know don't care about his job; which Mexicans does he think want his job? Remind him that "Mexicans" are not a social club with a few dozen members.
Ask if he's worried about Germans taking his job - I know several undocumented immigrants from Europe who struggling to find fake paperwork to stay in the US.
Or leave the table, leave the room, maybe leave the gathering. "I have friends who come from Mexico, and they have just as much right to a job as you do. If you aren't the better worker, you don't deserve the job."
If he falls back on, "I meant illegal Mexicans!" you can say, "then the problem is your employer breaking the law."
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 10:03 AM on November 10, 2016 [15 favorites]
You can probably do that better with a new party.
posted by molecicco at 10:03 AM on November 10, 2016
posted by molecicco at 10:03 AM on November 10, 2016
@roomthreeseventeen: I found it here: https://twitter.com/ThomasPageMcBee
posted by Annika Cicada at 10:04 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Annika Cicada at 10:04 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
You can probably do that better with a new party.
Yes, American history is just full of examples of third parties rising up and achieving great things.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:04 AM on November 10, 2016 [26 favorites]
Yes, American history is just full of examples of third parties rising up and achieving great things.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:04 AM on November 10, 2016 [26 favorites]
I was a reluctant Hillary supporter as I expected from her, if elected, more of the DLC/triangulation/corporatist policies her husband championed. NAFTA and the treaties that followed really were a blow to many Americans.
Neoliberal policies have failed most Americans. Trump's message, poorly expressed and incoherent, hinted at this. Many of my high school friends who did not go on to college projected this onto Trump and supported him. Whether he means this and will buck the 'elites' including the majority of his party and oppose NAFTA, TPP, etc. etc. remains to be seen. I am not hopeful.
posted by sudogeek at 10:04 AM on November 10, 2016
Neoliberal policies have failed most Americans. Trump's message, poorly expressed and incoherent, hinted at this. Many of my high school friends who did not go on to college projected this onto Trump and supported him. Whether he means this and will buck the 'elites' including the majority of his party and oppose NAFTA, TPP, etc. etc. remains to be seen. I am not hopeful.
posted by sudogeek at 10:04 AM on November 10, 2016
Israeli right seizes on Trump win: ‘The era of a Palestinian state is over’:
Members of Netanyahu’s government, considered the most right-wing in Israeli history, showed less restraint in their expectations of dividends from Trump’s victory.posted by palindromic at 10:04 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
Education Minister Naftali Bennett, who heads the hardline Jewish Home party and is seen as seeking to be prime minister one day, said the idea of a Palestinian state was now over.
“Trump’s victory is an opportunity for Israel to immediately retract the notion of a Palestinian state in the centre of the country, which would hurt our security and just cause,” Bennett said in an apparent reference to the occupied West Bank.
yes, a reform party of some sort. after all, it worked out so well for the reformers in 1992 and 1996
posted by entropicamericana at 10:05 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by entropicamericana at 10:05 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
When uncle Jerry rants at the table, you sit on your hands and talk about football.
Meanwhile, when you go out to try to win blue collar white voters for the next Democratic ballot, you prepare an agenda and presentation that works for that audience.
You know you can call him out on his racism and go try to win blue collar voters while also not pandering to racism, right?
posted by soren_lorensen at 10:05 AM on November 10, 2016 [11 favorites]
Meanwhile, when you go out to try to win blue collar white voters for the next Democratic ballot, you prepare an agenda and presentation that works for that audience.
You know you can call him out on his racism and go try to win blue collar voters while also not pandering to racism, right?
posted by soren_lorensen at 10:05 AM on November 10, 2016 [11 favorites]
The most important lesson of this election to me is that evangelicals voted overwhelmingly for trump on the basis of abortion and nothing else. We've got millions of single issue voters held captive on an issue that the bible doesn't even address, organized into a political machine for finding the least christ-like man in america and making him their leader. If america's most religious people had felt comfortable voting their conscience Clinton could've gotten at least three more states, but deep immersion in the pro-life movement has trapped many of them in a bubble they can't escape. My mother got so angry she cried when I made her listen to just five minutes of that This American Life episode about political lies (ep 599), and kept insisting that Obama IS a muslim, he IS, because being a christian means being pro-life, and being pro-life means being in the bubble, and being in the bubble means Trump. We need to make a theological case for being pro-choice and we need to make it hard.
posted by fomhar at 10:05 AM on November 10, 2016 [41 favorites]
posted by fomhar at 10:05 AM on November 10, 2016 [41 favorites]
So are Bernie Sanders and his supporters going to start a new political party? Now is the time.
I would rather see them infiltrate the Democratic party in large numbers, put their people on Dem tickets at every level of government, take over party nominating committees and executive positions, and pretty much rewire and redefine the DNC from the inside.
The system isn't made for third parties and is very hard to change.
posted by rocket88 at 10:05 AM on November 10, 2016 [10 favorites]
I would rather see them infiltrate the Democratic party in large numbers, put their people on Dem tickets at every level of government, take over party nominating committees and executive positions, and pretty much rewire and redefine the DNC from the inside.
The system isn't made for third parties and is very hard to change.
posted by rocket88 at 10:05 AM on November 10, 2016 [10 favorites]
Mod note: A few comments deleted; please be kind folks.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 10:06 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 10:06 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
So are Bernie Sanders and his supporters going to start a new political party? Now is the time.
They've already half taken over the Democratic party, probably easier to just finish the job.
You can probably do that better with a new party.
The Greens haven't found that to be the case, as long as we're measuring success by votes and getting anything done.
posted by LionIndex at 10:06 AM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
They've already half taken over the Democratic party, probably easier to just finish the job.
You can probably do that better with a new party.
The Greens haven't found that to be the case, as long as we're measuring success by votes and getting anything done.
posted by LionIndex at 10:06 AM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
uhhh. Moscow had contacts with Trump team during campaign, Russian diplomat says
But Russia’s deputy foreign minister, Sergei Ryabkov, said in an interview with the state-run Interfax news agency that “there were contacts” with the Trump team.posted by zachlipton at 10:06 AM on November 10, 2016 [13 favorites]
“Obviously, we know most of the people from his entourage,” Ryabkov said. “Those people have always been in the limelight in the United States and have occupied high-ranking positions. I cannot say that all of them but quite a few have been staying in touch with Russian representatives.”
“We have just begun to consider ways of building dialogue with the future Donald Trump administration and channels we will be using for those purposes,” Ryabkov was quoted as saying.
No further details were given on the claimed contacts, including names in the Trump campaign or other specifics.
Speaking to Bloomberg News, ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova said staff of Russia’s embassy in the United States met with members of Trump’s campaign — meetings she described as “normal practice.” Democratic Party nominee Hillary Clinton’s campaign refused similar requests for meetings, she told the agency.
Asked later for clarification, a Foreign Ministry official declined to elaborate on Ryabkov’s remarks but said standard diplomacy called for “contact with the leaders in the campaign” on matters such as clarifying statements by the candidate or conveying interview requests from Russian journalists. The ministry official spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the matter.
So... what are the plans for 2018?
Shitloads of ads that ask "Are you better off?"
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 10:07 AM on November 10, 2016 [12 favorites]
Shitloads of ads that ask "Are you better off?"
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 10:07 AM on November 10, 2016 [12 favorites]
The Democratic Party has brought in four Asian American women Senators. I would like to support them. I would not like to blow out the party with the Bernie Sanders Party.
Let's not be shortsighted. Let's focus on what we can really do with what we have.
posted by zutalors! at 10:08 AM on November 10, 2016 [36 favorites]
Let's not be shortsighted. Let's focus on what we can really do with what we have.
posted by zutalors! at 10:08 AM on November 10, 2016 [36 favorites]
Robert Farley: A Hundred Days of Trump - Foreign Policy Edition:
More on the way, but here’s a quick rundown of where I see Trump going on some big foreign policy issues:posted by palindromic at 10:09 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
Iran
I am very mildly optimistic on Iran, mostly because I suspect that Trump does not want to open up a giant mess of worms by aggressively upending the deal. Perhaps as important, the anti-Iran dealers were heavily represented in the NeverTrump movement. It also doesn’t seem that Trump has any specific ideological axe to grind with Tehran; Iranians no longer emigrate to the United States in great numbers, Trump is unbothered by the mixed-authoritarian nature of Iranian governance, and Iran can hardly be termed a “free rider” ally. But then who the hell knows?
East Asia
For folks hoping that a de-escalation with Russia would lead to a broader evaluation of US defense posture, tough luck. For one, Russia and the “new Cold War” has never been that big of a deal for the Pentagon. People in DoD know Russia and they use Russia rhetorically (at least in the Army) to argue for certain priorities. The medium- and long-range foci of DoD, and of the defense industry writ large, have been firmly on China for quite some time. The reason is simple; China represents a far more compelling military threat than Russia, which remains hemmed in by an alliance structure, and faces tremendous economic and industrial obstacles.
After five years or so of slow, bit-by-bit steps toward marginalization, people who would be opposed to dramatic measures will come to accept dramatic results. That's how it has worked historically. You bribe the ruling group with bits of power that they don't even realize that they are accepting, you marginalize the outgroups little by little, and eventually even extreme acts of violence and injustice are normalized and consented to.
Have there been any good accounts of this process as it happened in Nazi Germany; i.e., the relations “Aryan” Germans had with Jewish neighbours/coworkers/friends, starting off as peers, then gradually accepting the discrimination and rationalising that their old friends David and Rebecca are actually un-German and it's all a terrible pity, then looking the other way as they're replaced overnight by a wholesomely German family from the Sudetenland, and finally, sometime after the liberation of Auschwitz, either coming to terms with the enormity of their complicity or desperately avoiding it by any trick of rationalisation?
I suspect that sort of thing might happen again.
posted by acb at 10:09 AM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
Have there been any good accounts of this process as it happened in Nazi Germany; i.e., the relations “Aryan” Germans had with Jewish neighbours/coworkers/friends, starting off as peers, then gradually accepting the discrimination and rationalising that their old friends David and Rebecca are actually un-German and it's all a terrible pity, then looking the other way as they're replaced overnight by a wholesomely German family from the Sudetenland, and finally, sometime after the liberation of Auschwitz, either coming to terms with the enormity of their complicity or desperately avoiding it by any trick of rationalisation?
I suspect that sort of thing might happen again.
posted by acb at 10:09 AM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
I would rather see them infiltrate the Democratic party in large numbers, put their people on Dem tickets at every level of government, take over party nominating committees and executive positions, and pretty much rewire and redefine the DNC from the inside.
That's exactly what he's going to do. He operates outside the party as a legislator, but has a lot of allies within it. The amount he can do without the host organism of the Democratic party is minimal, and the leaders of that party apparatus are weaker than they've ever been. Obama is going to likely be the public face of the project to strengthen and rebuild the party once he leaves office, but Sanders is going to be a major figure in building the winning coalition.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:09 AM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
That's exactly what he's going to do. He operates outside the party as a legislator, but has a lot of allies within it. The amount he can do without the host organism of the Democratic party is minimal, and the leaders of that party apparatus are weaker than they've ever been. Obama is going to likely be the public face of the project to strengthen and rebuild the party once he leaves office, but Sanders is going to be a major figure in building the winning coalition.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:09 AM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
We need to make a theological case for being pro-choice and we need to make it hard.
We need White evangelical men to make this point. The rest of us can come up with talking points, scriptural support, heart-wrenching stories, and logical arguments with statistics from other countries, but we cannot make that pitch effective.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 10:09 AM on November 10, 2016 [9 favorites]
We need White evangelical men to make this point. The rest of us can come up with talking points, scriptural support, heart-wrenching stories, and logical arguments with statistics from other countries, but we cannot make that pitch effective.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 10:09 AM on November 10, 2016 [9 favorites]
Samantha Bee dreams of a beautiful, faraway world where Trump didn't win
posted by palindromic at 10:11 AM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by palindromic at 10:11 AM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
I have already decided to opt out of one side's Thanksgiving because some of them will either want to gloat or want to pity me and I am probably not cool and collected enough to react without tears and cursewords. Why put myself through that? I know there are others there who don't like Trump but they're afraid or apathetic and I'm tired of being the Designated Liberal Black Sheep. I've made my impassioned pleas, tried to appeal to their purported belief in Jesus' words about not hurting the vulnerable, all that. Like talking to a brick wall. I'm done. They can sit in their white bubba compound and look through rifle scopes for ISIS all day long if that's what makes them happy. I have my family, that I've chosen and that I've married into, and they mean more to me than the people who share my genes ever will.
posted by emjaybee at 10:12 AM on November 10, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 10:12 AM on November 10, 2016 [9 favorites]
Trump's website, greatagain.gov, has a big button on it called "Share Your Ideas" where it asks you to tell him how to make America great again.
I'm copying and pasting all of Hillary's plans direct from her web site and sending each point in, one by one.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:12 AM on November 10, 2016 [75 favorites]
Petition the Electoral College to align with the national popular vote and elect Hillary Clinton as the 45th President of the United States.
posted by baltimoretim at 10:13 AM on November 10, 2016 [13 favorites]
posted by baltimoretim at 10:13 AM on November 10, 2016 [13 favorites]
I mean, the campaign ad writes itself.
Where have you been? None of that matters anymore. Appeal to voters' sense of irony and hypocrisy? You might as well throw in a bon mot about Miltiades at Marathon.
There was a thing on the radio yesterday about the fate of Obamacare, and how nobody has any idea what the "replace" of "repeal and replace" is supposed to be. We never had any conversation about that, or anything else, because what venue for that conversation even exists? The debates were the only real point of contact between the separate realities that Americans live in, and those were complete farces. Only the VP debate, which nobody watched, had anything resembling a conversation about policy, and Pence was forced to invent a platform that bore no relationship to that of his running mate. All there is now is rhetoric, fear, and power.
posted by theodolite at 10:14 AM on November 10, 2016 [13 favorites]
Where have you been? None of that matters anymore. Appeal to voters' sense of irony and hypocrisy? You might as well throw in a bon mot about Miltiades at Marathon.
There was a thing on the radio yesterday about the fate of Obamacare, and how nobody has any idea what the "replace" of "repeal and replace" is supposed to be. We never had any conversation about that, or anything else, because what venue for that conversation even exists? The debates were the only real point of contact between the separate realities that Americans live in, and those were complete farces. Only the VP debate, which nobody watched, had anything resembling a conversation about policy, and Pence was forced to invent a platform that bore no relationship to that of his running mate. All there is now is rhetoric, fear, and power.
posted by theodolite at 10:14 AM on November 10, 2016 [13 favorites]
When uncle Jerry rants at the table, you sit on your hands and talk about football.
Thinking further about this, I was complaining to my husband yesterday that if someone starts saying racist shit (e.g. talking about "thugs") at a family event and I say something about it everyone thinks I'm the one causing trouble or making a scene instead of thinking about how maybe the person saying racist shit is the one who is actually causing trouble. Why is it my job to keep the peace other people are breaking by being vocally hateful? I'm not the one starting trouble! The trouble was already there when someone started saying bigoted shit!
When you tell people not to speak up, you're supporting the racists. It makes it harder to call this stuff out when you know that everyone is going to think you're just a pain in the ass for trying not to be fucking racist so maybe a good way to support people of color would be not only to call this shit out but at the VERY LEAST support other people who try to call it out instead of telling them to "sit on their hands and talk about football" as if the people who are trying not to be racists are the real problem. Jesus Christ.
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 10:15 AM on November 10, 2016 [16 favorites]
Thinking further about this, I was complaining to my husband yesterday that if someone starts saying racist shit (e.g. talking about "thugs") at a family event and I say something about it everyone thinks I'm the one causing trouble or making a scene instead of thinking about how maybe the person saying racist shit is the one who is actually causing trouble. Why is it my job to keep the peace other people are breaking by being vocally hateful? I'm not the one starting trouble! The trouble was already there when someone started saying bigoted shit!
When you tell people not to speak up, you're supporting the racists. It makes it harder to call this stuff out when you know that everyone is going to think you're just a pain in the ass for trying not to be fucking racist so maybe a good way to support people of color would be not only to call this shit out but at the VERY LEAST support other people who try to call it out instead of telling them to "sit on their hands and talk about football" as if the people who are trying not to be racists are the real problem. Jesus Christ.
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 10:15 AM on November 10, 2016 [16 favorites]
Best protest sign from NYC last night: "Put avocado on racism so white ppl will pay attention."
posted by zachlipton at 10:16 AM on November 10, 2016 [47 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 10:16 AM on November 10, 2016 [47 favorites]
Two articles from Cracked:
Teresa Lee: Dear White Friends: Stop Saying Everything Is Going To Be Ok:
Teresa Lee: Dear White Friends: Stop Saying Everything Is Going To Be Ok:
For the white liberals who didn't vote to put a racist, misogynist, xenophobic man in the White House, everything will probably be "okay" because it's just a matter of principle to them. (Also, thank you for voting.) But for many minorities, it's not just principles. It's a matter of life and death. White people: I believe you will be okay. I'm happy that you're going to be okay. But I'm tired of hearing you tell me that everything is going to be okay, because the implications of this election are different for you than for everyone else.Soren Bowie: A Letter to My Wife The Day After The Election:
I feel for my Black friends, who have to watch as a candidate openly endorsed by the KKK gets sworn into the Oval Office on January 20. I feel for my Hispanic friends, who have to pledge allegiance to a man who called them rapists while on the campaign trail -- and who, by the way, has been accused of sexual assault by multiple women and teenage girls. Not to mention how he bragged that he can just "grab [women] by the pussy." I feel for my Muslim friends. Do I even need to say why?
I'm so sorry. I can only watch you hurt, because trying to qualify it, to look on the bright side, or equate it to anything in my life rings as tone-deaf. I know that. I can only hug you when you want it and leave you alone when need that. I just want you to know that, whether upstairs or next to you or miles and miles away, I'm with you, I love you, and I hate knowing your heart is breaking.posted by palindromic at 10:17 AM on November 10, 2016 [32 favorites]
With the morning came new rhetoric: Affluent liberals are over-dramatic spoiled children who finally get to know what it feels like to lose. The bubble we've all created around ourselves has burst, and now we are faced with the bleak, dying sections of unhappy rural America who'd rather burn the system to the ground than suffer through another four years of being ignored.
But that rhetoric, like a lot of things in your life I'm now realizing, ignores a lingering and ruthlessly unfair problem: We would rather have an unqualified man who grabs, rapes, violates, bullies, and dehumanizes women as our leader than a uniquely qualified woman. What that says about a woman's worth, about your worth, makes me so sad and frustrated that I want to angry-dance in a barn somewhere
Actually I think the "talk about football" can work with one MINOR addition. When they say the thing, turn your head sharply and look at them in horror as though they had just ate a kitten in front of you, then quickly turn to someone ELSE and say "so how about those Seahawks?"
posted by corb at 10:17 AM on November 10, 2016 [13 favorites]
posted by corb at 10:17 AM on November 10, 2016 [13 favorites]
Annika Cicada: "Germany’s post-war constitution has shouldered much of the blame for the political instability of the 1920s. The men who drafted the constitution in 1919 attempted to construct a political system not unlike that of the United States, incorporating democracy, federalism, checks and balances and protection of individual rights. Tellingly, they created an executive presidency who had considerable emergency powers, allowing him to bypass or override the elected Reichstag. Some historians suggest the Weimar president – with his seven year term and these hefty emergency powers – was not far removed from the former kaiser."
I pulled "The Making of the President, 1960" off the shelf the other day as I listened to the returns come in, and I was struck by this quote (which glosses over the role of the Electoral College, but... close enough):
The quote is out of date, of course - France, Brazil and others have tried direct presidential elections since then (with Lula over his career getting probably more votes than any other person in history) - but it did seem...
...well, the more that I think about it, the less apt it seems. Hitler was Chancellor, closer in position to Paul Ryan or Mitch McConnell. He was never President, not even after he seized power. The presidents - elected by mass popular vote, given extensive emergency powers, in office for seven years - were Ebert and von Hindenburg.
posted by clawsoon at 10:19 AM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
I pulled "The Making of the President, 1960" off the shelf the other day as I listened to the returns come in, and I was struck by this quote (which glosses over the role of the Electoral College, but... close enough):
There is nothing like this American expression of will in England or France, India or Russia or China. Only one other major nation in modern history has ever tried to elect its leader directly by mass, free, popular vote. This was the Weimar Republic of Germany, which modeled its unitary vote for national leader on American practice. Out of its experiment with the system it got Hitler. Americans have had Lincoln, Wilson, two Roosevelts.[...and Trump.]
The quote is out of date, of course - France, Brazil and others have tried direct presidential elections since then (with Lula over his career getting probably more votes than any other person in history) - but it did seem...
...well, the more that I think about it, the less apt it seems. Hitler was Chancellor, closer in position to Paul Ryan or Mitch McConnell. He was never President, not even after he seized power. The presidents - elected by mass popular vote, given extensive emergency powers, in office for seven years - were Ebert and von Hindenburg.
posted by clawsoon at 10:19 AM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
There are so many of you and you refuse to stand up when it counts.
I stood up, I voted for Hillary, and I promise you I will not cease to stand up and face racism head on. I will (and do, and have for as long as I can remember) call it out when I see it. I will not tolerate it or excuse it or let them think it's "just a joke."
posted by cooker girl at 10:20 AM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
I stood up, I voted for Hillary, and I promise you I will not cease to stand up and face racism head on. I will (and do, and have for as long as I can remember) call it out when I see it. I will not tolerate it or excuse it or let them think it's "just a joke."
posted by cooker girl at 10:20 AM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
There was a thing on the radio yesterday about the fate of Obamacare, and how nobody has any idea what the "replace" of "repeal and replace" is supposed to be.
I did an interview about obamacare just before lunch. The interviewer was a 26 year old, new in broadcasting and just now going off her parents' insurance. She seemed to leave... sobered.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 10:23 AM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
I did an interview about obamacare just before lunch. The interviewer was a 26 year old, new in broadcasting and just now going off her parents' insurance. She seemed to leave... sobered.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 10:23 AM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
It's not even that I'm opposed to being nice - it's that it doesn't work.
You're goddamned right. We can't pretend it hasn't been tried. The whole Obama Presidency was Being Nice As Progressive Praxis on a national scale. For all the good he did the country, that strategy is the one that lost to Trump.
posted by tobascodagama at 10:23 AM on November 10, 2016 [39 favorites]
You're goddamned right. We can't pretend it hasn't been tried. The whole Obama Presidency was Being Nice As Progressive Praxis on a national scale. For all the good he did the country, that strategy is the one that lost to Trump.
posted by tobascodagama at 10:23 AM on November 10, 2016 [39 favorites]
Petition the Electoral College to align with the national popular vote and elect Hillary Clinton as the 45th President of the United States.
It needed 31k more signatures when I clicked it. 5 minutes later, it needs 22k more.
I'm not the biggest fan of the idea, but on the other hand, isn't that part of the checks and balances in the system? If it's a possibility, and it saves lives, and possibly keeps us from nuclear war and maybe the end of all of human history in the space of minutes, well I'll take the "but but but" people. It's a nonviolent option, and the more I think about it, the more I'm considering advocating for it. It's not hyperbole to say that Trump might hit the button. So if she's willing to serve in that instance, then maybe that's what needs to happen.
Down to 12k now.
posted by cashman at 10:25 AM on November 10, 2016 [8 favorites]
It needed 31k more signatures when I clicked it. 5 minutes later, it needs 22k more.
I'm not the biggest fan of the idea, but on the other hand, isn't that part of the checks and balances in the system? If it's a possibility, and it saves lives, and possibly keeps us from nuclear war and maybe the end of all of human history in the space of minutes, well I'll take the "but but but" people. It's a nonviolent option, and the more I think about it, the more I'm considering advocating for it. It's not hyperbole to say that Trump might hit the button. So if she's willing to serve in that instance, then maybe that's what needs to happen.
Down to 12k now.
posted by cashman at 10:25 AM on November 10, 2016 [8 favorites]
@onlxn (the "Trump Leaks" dialogues guy) is doing some final thoughts in a tweetstorm:
posted by zachlipton at 10:27 AM on November 10, 2016 [19 favorites]
1. This'll be my last for awhile. To be clear: no more Leaks, no book, no nothing. I did it w/ the belief he wouldn't win. I was wrong.His dialogues were occasionally profound, often awful, but they were the dialogues this election deserved, not the dialogues we wanted.
2. I don't regret doing it b/c we raised some money, but I'd feel ghoulish continuing, given the misery he's about to cause.
...
5. Voter suppression is one of the purest evils there is. Help fight it by donating here: https://donatenow.networkforgood.org/BrennanCenterforJustice
...
8. Finally: as readers know, the real villain of the story I was telling was Paul Ryan. I'd like to turn my attention to him for a moment.
9. We've all seen scenes of ugliness pop up since Trump's win. I don't think any of us are under the illusion that Trump will disavow them.
10. But Paul Ryan fancies himself a responsible leader. As I've made clear, I don't agree with him, but that's what he thinks.
11. Paul Ryan has said nothing about the recent cruelties being inflicted on the various groups Trump has demonized since the election.
posted by zachlipton at 10:27 AM on November 10, 2016 [19 favorites]
acb:Have there been any good accounts of this process as it happened in Nazi Germany
Have you read the diaries of diaries of Viktor Klemperer? He was a German Jew (newly defined as such under the race laws), married to a gentile, who survived the war via Dresden. They address the creeping racism in Germany in the 1930s and through the war in exquisite, terrifying detail - he had a foot in both communities and a knack for the telling observation.
posted by Rumple at 10:28 AM on November 10, 2016 [26 favorites]
Have you read the diaries of diaries of Viktor Klemperer? He was a German Jew (newly defined as such under the race laws), married to a gentile, who survived the war via Dresden. They address the creeping racism in Germany in the 1930s and through the war in exquisite, terrifying detail - he had a foot in both communities and a knack for the telling observation.
posted by Rumple at 10:28 AM on November 10, 2016 [26 favorites]
8,300 to go until 300k people have signed the petition. It's a brisk pace.
posted by baltimoretim at 10:28 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by baltimoretim at 10:28 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
I didn't realize it just kicked up to the next number. So now the goal is 500,000, since 300k already signed it.
posted by cashman at 10:32 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by cashman at 10:32 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
Here' a thing i'd like to see before the Obama administration is over: a pardon for every black person in prison for a nonviolent crime (like possession).
Wouldn't that be a nice Fuck You to the racists and to Trump.
And a nice fuck you to correctional/detention companies like CCA and Geo Group that have enjoyed strong stock price bumps since Trump's win.
posted by Kabanos at 10:32 AM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
Wouldn't that be a nice Fuck You to the racists and to Trump.
And a nice fuck you to correctional/detention companies like CCA and Geo Group that have enjoyed strong stock price bumps since Trump's win.
posted by Kabanos at 10:32 AM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
Politico: Meet Trump's Cabinet-in-waiting. The names being bandied around.Also, putting up oil barons or venture capitalists for Energy? Do they not know that "energy" is an euphemism for "nuclear weapons"? Why do they think Obama put physicists in charge?
Obviously all of those picks sound awful, and Rudy Giuliani as Attorney General could easily be the worst part of a Trump administration, but I'm shocked at the depth of terrible picks for Interior. Jan Brewer is probably only the third or fourth worst name on that list, and she's one of the worst people in America today.
posted by indubitable at 10:35 AM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
Mom just told me that an African American woman she is friends with on FB posted about going to a gas station yesterday after she finished work. Man drove up in a big truck, got out and started calling her nigger. Woman said she tried to ignore him and walked away. Guy started screaming at her 'Don't you ignore me nigger' and the like and pulled out a gun.
Police were called and she said they ARE trying to help.
She said she's scared now because although she's had to deal with racism it's never been anything like this.
Not sure where she lives. I asked Mom to find the post again to find out. Not that it really matters, stories like this are coming in from all over the place.
posted by Jalliah at 10:36 AM on November 10, 2016 [29 favorites]
It's not even that I'm opposed to being nice - it's that it doesn't work.
With all the respect in the world, I strongly disagree. That has absolutely not been my experience.
When I was organizing #NeverTrumpers, they didn't all start out that way. In fact, I'd say a majority didn't start that way. We slowly, through kind conversation after kind conversation, brought them ever so slowly to a place where they could not support Trump. It was exhausting, but we did it to the point where many of them resisted physical threats for their opposition, having started from a "meh, who cares" place.
Now, we still lost. Our mission to stop Trump at the roots failed. But I still am in touch with hundreds and hundreds of them, and the majority stayed #NeverTrump until the election. I don't know about afterwards only because I can't brave social media right now.
Now that was an enormous undertaking. It took the near-constant work of dozens of people for several months. It was soul-destroying. But it worked. Bringing them along slowly and then forcing them to choose a side only when they were already on the right one worked. Positive organizing works, when you have the capacity to do it.
This isn't a slam on people who don't have that capacity- but those who do can make a huge impact, and it would be great to have other people doing the heavy lifting too. I can't right now, I'm too broken-hearted. But I would really appreciate people who can grabbing some of the load.
posted by corb at 10:37 AM on November 10, 2016 [50 favorites]
With all the respect in the world, I strongly disagree. That has absolutely not been my experience.
When I was organizing #NeverTrumpers, they didn't all start out that way. In fact, I'd say a majority didn't start that way. We slowly, through kind conversation after kind conversation, brought them ever so slowly to a place where they could not support Trump. It was exhausting, but we did it to the point where many of them resisted physical threats for their opposition, having started from a "meh, who cares" place.
Now, we still lost. Our mission to stop Trump at the roots failed. But I still am in touch with hundreds and hundreds of them, and the majority stayed #NeverTrump until the election. I don't know about afterwards only because I can't brave social media right now.
Now that was an enormous undertaking. It took the near-constant work of dozens of people for several months. It was soul-destroying. But it worked. Bringing them along slowly and then forcing them to choose a side only when they were already on the right one worked. Positive organizing works, when you have the capacity to do it.
This isn't a slam on people who don't have that capacity- but those who do can make a huge impact, and it would be great to have other people doing the heavy lifting too. I can't right now, I'm too broken-hearted. But I would really appreciate people who can grabbing some of the load.
posted by corb at 10:37 AM on November 10, 2016 [50 favorites]
Jalliah, it does matter. The NY Post's Shaun King (@shaunking) is documenting everything like that for the world to see.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:37 AM on November 10, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:37 AM on November 10, 2016 [8 favorites]
Not calling people you know little about names is the first step to not lose an argument.
The next step is to interrupt constantly and say things like "no puppet, no puppet ... YOU'RE the puppet!"
posted by sfenders at 10:38 AM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
The next step is to interrupt constantly and say things like "no puppet, no puppet ... YOU'RE the puppet!"
posted by sfenders at 10:38 AM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
I'm still stunned and disbelieving that Trump won. As in when I wake up in the morning it takes a minute to process it and I think it must have been a dream. That so many people voted for him does not make me think well of the people of this country.
But I'm also stunned and can't get over the fact that Hillary is not going to be president. I had taken it as a given for so long. I think that's not an insignificant factor, I think a lot of people were complacent, and I'm convinced a lot of people voted for Trump thinking Clinton would win.
I really wanted her to be president, and not just because she would have been the first woman. All the Monday morning quarterbacking about if she was the best person to beat Trump misses the point. I really wanted her to win.
I'm shocked that Trump will be our president. But I also feel robbed that Clinton won't be in a way completely different than when Gore or Kerry lost.
posted by bongo_x at 10:39 AM on November 10, 2016 [38 favorites]
But I'm also stunned and can't get over the fact that Hillary is not going to be president. I had taken it as a given for so long. I think that's not an insignificant factor, I think a lot of people were complacent, and I'm convinced a lot of people voted for Trump thinking Clinton would win.
I really wanted her to be president, and not just because she would have been the first woman. All the Monday morning quarterbacking about if she was the best person to beat Trump misses the point. I really wanted her to win.
I'm shocked that Trump will be our president. But I also feel robbed that Clinton won't be in a way completely different than when Gore or Kerry lost.
posted by bongo_x at 10:39 AM on November 10, 2016 [38 favorites]
Obviously 60 million Trump voters don't care who gets harassed.
posted by zutalors! at 10:39 AM on November 10, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by zutalors! at 10:39 AM on November 10, 2016 [7 favorites]
I can't do a Sanders party. I'm a vegetarian (or should be, I've been slipping as late) and I don't think that even their biscuits are safe. And isn't the quality of KFC a bit suspect these days?
Now if we're talking a Bernie Sanders political party, trying to stir up intra-party drama the day after I saw Sanders->Clinton voters break down in tears in church is a bad opinion, and one should feel bad for having hit the Post Comment button on it. That's not something I say often.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 10:41 AM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
Now if we're talking a Bernie Sanders political party, trying to stir up intra-party drama the day after I saw Sanders->Clinton voters break down in tears in church is a bad opinion, and one should feel bad for having hit the Post Comment button on it. That's not something I say often.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 10:41 AM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
Trump's transition website seems to be live. This is really what its name is?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:41 AM on November 10, 2016
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:41 AM on November 10, 2016
Good data visualizations in this BBC story on the election.
posted by Rumple at 10:42 AM on November 10, 2016
posted by Rumple at 10:42 AM on November 10, 2016
Shakespeare did it first!
I mean, if you're looking for the magnum opus summarizing all Clinton conspiracy theories, you can do no better than The Lady Macbeth of Little Rock. It's stunning not just for the vitriol, but for how many of those conspiracy theories and critiques have successfully transitioned from right-wing ravings to being accepted as common knowledge. Repeat something often enough and it'll become true.
If you look at the critiques from the left, many follow the exact pattern of the article, save substituting "She's a secret conservative" for "She's a secret socialist."
posted by Anonymous at 10:43 AM on November 10, 2016
I mean, if you're looking for the magnum opus summarizing all Clinton conspiracy theories, you can do no better than The Lady Macbeth of Little Rock. It's stunning not just for the vitriol, but for how many of those conspiracy theories and critiques have successfully transitioned from right-wing ravings to being accepted as common knowledge. Repeat something often enough and it'll become true.
If you look at the critiques from the left, many follow the exact pattern of the article, save substituting "She's a secret conservative" for "She's a secret socialist."
posted by Anonymous at 10:43 AM on November 10, 2016
Re: nice: Malvina Reynolds, "It isn't nice" (video) (lyrics)
It isn't nice to block the doorway,posted by nonane at 10:44 AM on November 10, 2016 [19 favorites]
It isn't nice to go to jail,
There are nicer ways to do it,
But the nice ways always fail.
It isn't nice, it isn't nice,
You told us once, you told us twice,
But if that is Freedom's price,
We don't mind.
Jalliah, it does matter. The NY Post's Shaun King (@shaunking) is documenting everything like that for the world to see.
I'll see if my Mom found it and if it's shareable then. My Mom plays facebooksgames and has tons of people she's 'friends' with but doesn't know so she's searching through her 600+ friend list to find it.
I asked her to please save anything else that she gets.
posted by Jalliah at 10:45 AM on November 10, 2016
I'll see if my Mom found it and if it's shareable then. My Mom plays facebooksgames and has tons of people she's 'friends' with but doesn't know so she's searching through her 600+ friend list to find it.
I asked her to please save anything else that she gets.
posted by Jalliah at 10:45 AM on November 10, 2016
Trump Transitions to Power, 'Cabinet of Horrors' Takes Shape
Climate skeptics, oil tycoons, campaign loyalists, war hawks, and law enforcement enthusiasts top the list of potential appointees. (scroll down for list)
posted by adamvasco at 10:45 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
Climate skeptics, oil tycoons, campaign loyalists, war hawks, and law enforcement enthusiasts top the list of potential appointees. (scroll down for list)
posted by adamvasco at 10:45 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
Trump just completely reversed his policy on South Korea — only 2 days after being elected
posted by tonycpsu at 10:46 AM on November 10, 2016 [28 favorites]
During the 10-minute phone call, Park reportedly told Trump, "I expect that [we] can strengthen and develop the alliance down the road for the shared interests in various areas," to which Trump responded by saying that he completely agreed with her.I guess we'll find out if he was lying to American voters then or he's lying to President Park now.
She also raised North Korea's nuclear issue, and said that it was the "greatest threat" facing the two countries. "Given that in the past, North Korea staged provocations during the period of the government transition in the US, we need to closely cooperate in advance to thoroughly deter possible North Korean provocations and respond sternly if provoked."
Trump reportedly responded that the US will work with South Korea "until the end" for the security of both countries.
In other words, merely two days after having won the presidential contest, Trump appears to be walking away from one of the most alarming foreign policy positions he repeatedly put forward throughout his entire campaign.
During his run for the presidency, Trump said that if he were elected, he would consider no longer defending longstanding allies South Korea and Japan unless they agree to pay us a lot more money to do so. He also suggested South Korea and Japan should consider getting their own nuclear weapons.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:46 AM on November 10, 2016 [28 favorites]
'Cabinet of Horrors' Takes Shape
From the last thread:
From the last thread:
kakistocracy (n) — government by the worst persons; a form of government in which the worst persons are in power.posted by tonycpsu at 10:47 AM on November 10, 2016 [23 favorites]
I guess we'll find out if he was lying to American voters then or he's lying to President Park now.
whynotboth.gif
posted by Etrigan at 10:47 AM on November 10, 2016 [23 favorites]
whynotboth.gif
posted by Etrigan at 10:47 AM on November 10, 2016 [23 favorites]
This loss sucks, it hurts and it's going to hurt a lot more. But all is not lost and there's a clear opportunity here for 2020, which is critical for redrawing the map to get rid the safe districts Republicans drew in 2010.
Absolutely this. Clinton's campaign along with everyone else missed the tide of white resentment that came out for Trump, but otherwise ran a good, smart campaign. Democrats need to fight and contest every election they can, and in 2020 absolutely must not be feckless. That means keeping Chuck Schumer the hell away from the Senate candidate list.
I've been thinking of messaging, and I am sorely tempted to rub Republicans' noses in every awful thing Trump does. Trump is the embodiment of the Republican Party, and we need to hang him around their necks. I am not above saying "I told you so."
posted by Gelatin at 10:48 AM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
Absolutely this. Clinton's campaign along with everyone else missed the tide of white resentment that came out for Trump, but otherwise ran a good, smart campaign. Democrats need to fight and contest every election they can, and in 2020 absolutely must not be feckless. That means keeping Chuck Schumer the hell away from the Senate candidate list.
I've been thinking of messaging, and I am sorely tempted to rub Republicans' noses in every awful thing Trump does. Trump is the embodiment of the Republican Party, and we need to hang him around their necks. I am not above saying "I told you so."
posted by Gelatin at 10:48 AM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
On Korea reversal:
Was this call after he had his meeting with Obama that he was crowing about being so much longer then it should be? I'd be curious to find out.
posted by Jalliah at 10:48 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
Was this call after he had his meeting with Obama that he was crowing about being so much longer then it should be? I'd be curious to find out.
posted by Jalliah at 10:48 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
Two Competing Narratives for the Party Reboot
There are two narratives emerging to explain the shit-gibbon’s triumph. In one telling, the Democrats are to blame for driving white folks into the arms of the shit-gibbon. [...] In the other telling, the shit-gibbon harnessed a wave of white nationalism and status angst that was heightened by eight years of a black president and the prospect of a woman president.posted by tonycpsu at 10:50 AM on November 10, 2016 [19 favorites]
The first narrative seems to be gaining traction. But I think the second version is more accurate. The majority of white folks have been voting Republican since Nixon, and it’s not because the Republicans address their economic concerns. It’s because Republicans indulge rural America’s racism, sexism, xenophobia, religious intolerance and gun fetish in exchange for cart blanche to loot the Treasury.
The data just doesn’t support the “economic anxiety” or “outsider” explanations, since Republicans haven’t done jack-shit to address rural America’s plight and establishment Republican pols were returned to congress in even greater numbers. Also, the shit-gibbon didn’t garner as many votes as Romney or McCain, which wouldn’t have been the case if voters of all stripes were flocking to his “reformist” agenda. The scant voting data I’ve seen so far suggests turnout was down across the board, but rural voters went all-in for the shit-gibbon.
I think the voters who went gaga for the shit-gibbon voted for him because they share his worst qualities, and this Democrat ain’t getting on board with any movement to attract them.
> So... what are the plans for 2018?
Shitloads of ads that ask "Are you better off?"
This.
I reallyreallyreallyreally want to see someone do what that anonymous poo-bag did during the first couple months of Obama's presidency - they bought a billboard and put up a huge picture of Dubya with the caption "Miss me yet?"
I want to see billboards like that with the Obamas on them, one in each of the major cities of each of the battleground states.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:50 AM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
Shitloads of ads that ask "Are you better off?"
This.
I reallyreallyreallyreally want to see someone do what that anonymous poo-bag did during the first couple months of Obama's presidency - they bought a billboard and put up a huge picture of Dubya with the caption "Miss me yet?"
I want to see billboards like that with the Obamas on them, one in each of the major cities of each of the battleground states.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:50 AM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
I'm friends with a sort of ... devil's advocate? He's mostly on my side, but occasionally I question what he actually thinks. That said, he has a lot of "alt-right" friends who hate "SJWs". I joked about alt-right friends of his, and he said actually - all my alt-right friends are old leftists who got burned by the progressives.
One of the guys told me that "SJW Riot Squad" wanted me to die. And this was when he got fed up with "liberals" and wanted to go to something more progressive. I asked what he meant by that, this was this morning so just waiting to get clarification.
This IS the kind of difficult conversation we need.
We ALSO don't need to just shout answers. I saw one lady (a friend of above friend, but another friend LOL) said "Good I'm done being PC anymore" And I didn't get into it cuz my tablet sucks. But I decided my approach is to basically Socrates them. Ask questions, get them to answer and figure it out. The hard part is going to have to shut my mouth and listen and not scream out loud "BUT YOU ARE SO WRONG!" because listening means understanding and comprehension.
And you don't win battles by not understanding your enemy. Understanding and compassion might get some towards our side, but that's not the goal. This is a strategic thing that must be done. We must gain knowledge of the insight and general philosophy - not a caricature. And NOT poll based by "leading poll organizations" Not even fucking Pew. We need to do it ourselves and we need to experience it.
And we need to work towards a concrete goal, and just electing dems isn't enough. I disagree so much with Corb on many things, but I think this is the thing that's needed. Grassroots work to actually reach out and start to figure out how to crack this seemingly intractable nut. Not about how to "convert" them to your side, it's not about winning your little battle in the moment, it's about coming up with an understanding so you can actually have a competent fucking strategy for the future.
It's understanding a foreign language.
So - when someone says PC - say "what, exactly do you mean, please define it".
If they say "I can't say the N word anymore"
"OK. Why does that bother you."
Cuz I want to say it.
OK. Would you say you get upset when people say you're racist.
"yes." (or no - and figure out where to go from there as the path takes you)
Why?
Etc etc etc...
Understand, and draw the logic line. If possible. There will always be flaws. Including in your own, and it's good to do this with yourself. But the point being. DO NOT TRY TO WIN A BATTLE THIS IS WAR AND WE MUST LEARN TO LET BATTLES SLIDE TO GAIN KNOWLEDGE OF THE TERRAIN UNDER WHICH WE ARE DOING THIS BATTLE.
Garrison Keillor can fuck right of with "those idiots didn't vote the right way".
Look at Trumps plan APART from the hateful rhetoric. Look at his economic proposals. IT's 1800s style populism. That mean, throwing bones to workers. Whether it would even work, it's at least *something*. They eat it up, partially because that's what they want, partially because he's "not a Democrat", partially because they feel he's not talking down to them amongst other reasons. But instead of telling their stories for them, let them tell their stories themselves.
That doesn't mean you enable or justify things. It will be difficult to shut your mouth and not shout back "BUT HOW CAN YOU NOT SEE THAT'S RACIST!?" or something of that nature.
Try to understand why they may not agree with all of Trumps proposals but why they voted for him.
I have other thoughts, but I have to leave for work.
posted by symbioid at 10:51 AM on November 10, 2016 [17 favorites]
One of the guys told me that "SJW Riot Squad" wanted me to die. And this was when he got fed up with "liberals" and wanted to go to something more progressive. I asked what he meant by that, this was this morning so just waiting to get clarification.
This IS the kind of difficult conversation we need.
We ALSO don't need to just shout answers. I saw one lady (a friend of above friend, but another friend LOL) said "Good I'm done being PC anymore" And I didn't get into it cuz my tablet sucks. But I decided my approach is to basically Socrates them. Ask questions, get them to answer and figure it out. The hard part is going to have to shut my mouth and listen and not scream out loud "BUT YOU ARE SO WRONG!" because listening means understanding and comprehension.
And you don't win battles by not understanding your enemy. Understanding and compassion might get some towards our side, but that's not the goal. This is a strategic thing that must be done. We must gain knowledge of the insight and general philosophy - not a caricature. And NOT poll based by "leading poll organizations" Not even fucking Pew. We need to do it ourselves and we need to experience it.
And we need to work towards a concrete goal, and just electing dems isn't enough. I disagree so much with Corb on many things, but I think this is the thing that's needed. Grassroots work to actually reach out and start to figure out how to crack this seemingly intractable nut. Not about how to "convert" them to your side, it's not about winning your little battle in the moment, it's about coming up with an understanding so you can actually have a competent fucking strategy for the future.
It's understanding a foreign language.
So - when someone says PC - say "what, exactly do you mean, please define it".
If they say "I can't say the N word anymore"
"OK. Why does that bother you."
Cuz I want to say it.
OK. Would you say you get upset when people say you're racist.
"yes." (or no - and figure out where to go from there as the path takes you)
Why?
Etc etc etc...
Understand, and draw the logic line. If possible. There will always be flaws. Including in your own, and it's good to do this with yourself. But the point being. DO NOT TRY TO WIN A BATTLE THIS IS WAR AND WE MUST LEARN TO LET BATTLES SLIDE TO GAIN KNOWLEDGE OF THE TERRAIN UNDER WHICH WE ARE DOING THIS BATTLE.
Garrison Keillor can fuck right of with "those idiots didn't vote the right way".
Look at Trumps plan APART from the hateful rhetoric. Look at his economic proposals. IT's 1800s style populism. That mean, throwing bones to workers. Whether it would even work, it's at least *something*. They eat it up, partially because that's what they want, partially because he's "not a Democrat", partially because they feel he's not talking down to them amongst other reasons. But instead of telling their stories for them, let them tell their stories themselves.
That doesn't mean you enable or justify things. It will be difficult to shut your mouth and not shout back "BUT HOW CAN YOU NOT SEE THAT'S RACIST!?" or something of that nature.
Try to understand why they may not agree with all of Trumps proposals but why they voted for him.
I have other thoughts, but I have to leave for work.
posted by symbioid at 10:51 AM on November 10, 2016 [17 favorites]
Apropos of nothing, one possible contributor to the enormous polling failure that I haven't seen discussed yet is the "Spirit Cooking" email, which was one of the last Wikileaks drops before the election. If you missed it: the performance artist Marina Abramovic had John Podesta's brother at one of her events, and invited John along. There's no evidence he came, and Clinton herself wasn't involved at all. But some of Abramovic's art is edgy and weird-looking, with fake blood and naked people, so the Drudge/Breitbart world had a field day with it - Satanic rituals! Hillary is a cannibal!
And we barely noticed this (it was just before the Comey reversal and a lot of other stuff was going on) or only mentioned it to say lol look at these whackjobs, because it was so ridiculous. I don't remember if the mainstream news even picked it up. But hundreds of thousands of people on Twitter and Facebook were losing their minds. #SpiritCooking was the number one trending topic, and nearly everyone I saw was dead serious about it. White evangelicals weren't going to vote for Clinton in any case, but I wonder how many of them were planning on sitting out a contest between a rapist and a nasty woman but not one between a rapist and a devil worshiper.
posted by theodolite at 10:52 AM on November 10, 2016 [7 favorites]
And we barely noticed this (it was just before the Comey reversal and a lot of other stuff was going on) or only mentioned it to say lol look at these whackjobs, because it was so ridiculous. I don't remember if the mainstream news even picked it up. But hundreds of thousands of people on Twitter and Facebook were losing their minds. #SpiritCooking was the number one trending topic, and nearly everyone I saw was dead serious about it. White evangelicals weren't going to vote for Clinton in any case, but I wonder how many of them were planning on sitting out a contest between a rapist and a nasty woman but not one between a rapist and a devil worshiper.
posted by theodolite at 10:52 AM on November 10, 2016 [7 favorites]
My biggest take away from this election is a collection of lessons I already had learned (given that called the Election on the 28th of October, you will have to forgive me, I felt prescient and horrified):
- People have no sense of history, and therefore no real means to test things against it
- Fame continues to be more important than substance
- People with no sense of history can only look at contemporary examples and therefore draw incorrect conclusions
- People will blame the loser for losing instead of asking why the winner won
- Almost everyone but the persecuted forget all the times the persecuted just "took it on the chin" and act like the persecuted are the real aggressors when they eventually fight back
- Alternatively they will act like the persecuted person liked being persecuted
- Individuals can be intelligent and caring and have empathy, but give them a cohort and they will become cruel and vengeful in as much time as it takes someone to start chanting ANYTHING
- The TEA party was a massive protest movement born out of discomfort with a Black President and while they didn't take part in Direct Action (mostly by dint of being made up of older white people) they did disrupt the government and their efforts continue to bear fruits today, they remain useful forces to be marshaled in the name of blind ignorance
- People will vote for incumbents, no matter what. Name recognition matters even more than record
'Cabinet of Horrors' Takes Shape
From the last thread:
kakistocracy (n) — government by the worst persons; a form of government in which the worst persons are in power.
I cannot fathom the amount of damage these people will be able to do in the next 2 (and likely 4) years.
posted by Gaz Errant at 10:53 AM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
From the last thread:
kakistocracy (n) — government by the worst persons; a form of government in which the worst persons are in power.
I cannot fathom the amount of damage these people will be able to do in the next 2 (and likely 4) years.
posted by Gaz Errant at 10:53 AM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
Was this call after he had his meeting with Obama that he was crowing about being so much longer then it should be?
This reminds me - I found myself hoping last night that President Obama would walk the president elect into one of Bill Hicks' smoke filled rooms, where he would be told what was really going to happen.
How horrible is it that I hope there's a star chamber that wil control the president of the free world?
posted by Mooski at 10:53 AM on November 10, 2016 [9 favorites]
This reminds me - I found myself hoping last night that President Obama would walk the president elect into one of Bill Hicks' smoke filled rooms, where he would be told what was really going to happen.
How horrible is it that I hope there's a star chamber that wil control the president of the free world?
posted by Mooski at 10:53 AM on November 10, 2016 [9 favorites]
Well, I've joined a political party and volunteered to help a digital rights group. I've started reading much more political activism material, and find myself considering just how much of a reset of the political system I'm going to work towards.
There needs to be radical reform of the mechanisms of democracy, of the sort that is not easy to make happen because it will disrupt the party system. What will it take to make that happen? I don't know but I suspect when I do, I'll be prepared to help do it.
Brexit. Trump.
Enough.
Hand me my tuba.
posted by Devonian at 10:53 AM on November 10, 2016 [12 favorites]
There needs to be radical reform of the mechanisms of democracy, of the sort that is not easy to make happen because it will disrupt the party system. What will it take to make that happen? I don't know but I suspect when I do, I'll be prepared to help do it.
Brexit. Trump.
Enough.
Hand me my tuba.
posted by Devonian at 10:53 AM on November 10, 2016 [12 favorites]
I guess we'll find out if he was lying to American voters then or he's lying to President Park now.
What makes him so scary is that I don't think he's ever lying. Or at least he doesn't believe he is. He says whatever comes into his head at the time without even thinking about it. He can't lie, because he doesn't really believe anything. He just says stuff, and keeps saying stuff and more stuff and more stuff, without considering content or implications. It's why I'm so scared, because this kind of guy as a president makes the future impossible to predict. It makes five minutes from now impossible to predict. He is a non-person, with non-opinions and non-ideas.
posted by something something at 10:53 AM on November 10, 2016 [50 favorites]
What makes him so scary is that I don't think he's ever lying. Or at least he doesn't believe he is. He says whatever comes into his head at the time without even thinking about it. He can't lie, because he doesn't really believe anything. He just says stuff, and keeps saying stuff and more stuff and more stuff, without considering content or implications. It's why I'm so scared, because this kind of guy as a president makes the future impossible to predict. It makes five minutes from now impossible to predict. He is a non-person, with non-opinions and non-ideas.
posted by something something at 10:53 AM on November 10, 2016 [50 favorites]
Frowner: This is why I don't have a lot of faith in being nice. You wouldn't know it online, but in life I'm a really go-along-to-get-along person, and what I've been realizing lately is that no matter how nice, charming, charismatic and friendly I am, that doesn't stop straight cis men from threatening me with violence. And if it doesn't work now, how will it work in five years when every document I have has a pink triangle on it?
One of the things that came up in a discussion group was the difference between being nice and being kind. Nice too often involves taking a dive in the area of self-respect for the sake of the other person's ego. Kind includes ways to assert yourself without causing needless harm.
Regardless, too often this whole fucking tone argument becomes Kantian Categorical Imperative run amok, and I think we need groups like Black Lives Matter and Queer Nation as well as Democratic PR volunteers willing to walk the line between nice and kind.
tonycpsu: I guess we'll find out if he was lying to American voters then or he's lying to President Park now.
Why not both?
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 10:53 AM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
One of the things that came up in a discussion group was the difference between being nice and being kind. Nice too often involves taking a dive in the area of self-respect for the sake of the other person's ego. Kind includes ways to assert yourself without causing needless harm.
Regardless, too often this whole fucking tone argument becomes Kantian Categorical Imperative run amok, and I think we need groups like Black Lives Matter and Queer Nation as well as Democratic PR volunteers willing to walk the line between nice and kind.
tonycpsu: I guess we'll find out if he was lying to American voters then or he's lying to President Park now.
Why not both?
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 10:53 AM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
(On the note about history, Democrats next opportunities are over the next 2 years, Local Elections and House Races, they need to focus on the here and now God Damn it)
posted by NiteMayr at 10:54 AM on November 10, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by NiteMayr at 10:54 AM on November 10, 2016 [10 favorites]
I think changing minds by “being nice” is, as Frowner says, often a nonstarter for people who are experiencing discrimination.
However, I also agree with corb that it works if you have the privilege and the spare emotional labor to do so. Instead of causing people to double down, it sometimes gets them to double take, try to justify, and even apologize. Even Fox News types. They are usually ready for accusations of prejudice, which they take proudly. They are less ready for responses that boil down to "you should be better than this."
Phrases I’ve had good experience with:
“Please don’t use that word around me.”
“Please do not talk about my friends and loved ones in that way. It is hurtful to me.”
“That sounds like a very unkind/unloving way to talk about another person.” (V. useful w/ avowed evangelicals)
“I think that is a very simplistic way of looking at a complicated situation.”
“That does not match any of the experiences or viewpoints of people I know.”
None foolproof, of course. But if you’re white, cis, and straight, you might give them a shot. Let people know that this viewpoint of the world hurts all of us. Don’t brush it off. Make one less safe space for racists/homophobes/Islamophobes/anti-Semites, even if the space is only “the area around your cubicle”.
posted by a fiendish thingy at 10:56 AM on November 10, 2016 [42 favorites]
However, I also agree with corb that it works if you have the privilege and the spare emotional labor to do so. Instead of causing people to double down, it sometimes gets them to double take, try to justify, and even apologize. Even Fox News types. They are usually ready for accusations of prejudice, which they take proudly. They are less ready for responses that boil down to "you should be better than this."
Phrases I’ve had good experience with:
“Please don’t use that word around me.”
“Please do not talk about my friends and loved ones in that way. It is hurtful to me.”
“That sounds like a very unkind/unloving way to talk about another person.” (V. useful w/ avowed evangelicals)
“I think that is a very simplistic way of looking at a complicated situation.”
“That does not match any of the experiences or viewpoints of people I know.”
None foolproof, of course. But if you’re white, cis, and straight, you might give them a shot. Let people know that this viewpoint of the world hurts all of us. Don’t brush it off. Make one less safe space for racists/homophobes/Islamophobes/anti-Semites, even if the space is only “the area around your cubicle”.
posted by a fiendish thingy at 10:56 AM on November 10, 2016 [42 favorites]
Or "quit being a dick" is good, too.
posted by petebest at 10:58 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by petebest at 10:58 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
I don't think the Bernie Sanders movement can be fairly compared to the Greens or any other recent third party attempt. It is a genuine movement speaking to what the Democratic party should be. The Democratic party is captive to corporate interests and I highly doubt that attempts to clean the party out will be successful. Trump's election, and Sanders successes and Hillary's lack thereof are a clear indication that Americans are craving a substantial change. A Sanders party could bring many prominent Democrats with it and represents a real opportunity to break the two party system. This is the moment of big change, if that isn't already obvious.
posted by molecicco at 10:58 AM on November 10, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by molecicco at 10:58 AM on November 10, 2016 [8 favorites]
It has to be two years from now. Mid-terms have mattered so very much, Democrats/liberals/whatever can not just bank on getting the Presidency every 4 years. The last six years have clearly demonstrated with destructive force Congress can be to going forward.
There's also traditionally pushback against the President's party during the midterms (boy howdy, was there ever in 2010!). Democrats can take a time to lick their wounds, but then I see a genuine grassroots movement arising from the 3 million-plus members of Pantsuit Nation.
Let's face it: The Trump presidency is likely to be a disaster that makes George W. Bush look like Marcus Aurelius. The factory jobs aren't coming back to Ohio, but the rich are going to make out like bandits with the tax cut that's likely to be the Republicans' first order of business. Many of the people who voted for Trump out of "economic anxiety" are not going to like what they see, especially if the Republicans really do try to roll back the New Deal, and the Democrats need to be in a position to speak to them about it.
posted by Gelatin at 10:58 AM on November 10, 2016 [14 favorites]
There's also traditionally pushback against the President's party during the midterms (boy howdy, was there ever in 2010!). Democrats can take a time to lick their wounds, but then I see a genuine grassroots movement arising from the 3 million-plus members of Pantsuit Nation.
Let's face it: The Trump presidency is likely to be a disaster that makes George W. Bush look like Marcus Aurelius. The factory jobs aren't coming back to Ohio, but the rich are going to make out like bandits with the tax cut that's likely to be the Republicans' first order of business. Many of the people who voted for Trump out of "economic anxiety" are not going to like what they see, especially if the Republicans really do try to roll back the New Deal, and the Democrats need to be in a position to speak to them about it.
posted by Gelatin at 10:58 AM on November 10, 2016 [14 favorites]
(I shouldn't have said white evangelicals in my comment above - because in fact one of the more surprising polling errors was that 5-7% of black people voted for Trump, when that number was closer to 0 in nearly all the crosstabs I remember seeing throughout the race. And there were a lot of non-white faces in the #spiritcooking feed last Friday afternoon.)
posted by theodolite at 10:59 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by theodolite at 10:59 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
I am considering an approach of, "I am so glad I don't have to be 'politically correct' any more and I can just call a racist a racist."
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 10:59 AM on November 10, 2016 [42 favorites]
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 10:59 AM on November 10, 2016 [42 favorites]
People talk about 2018 and 2020 elections, and those are important, but you know what Republicans already have their eyes on? Those 2017 local elections for things like judges, school board, mayor, etc. We could start there.
posted by drezdn at 10:59 AM on November 10, 2016 [36 favorites]
posted by drezdn at 10:59 AM on November 10, 2016 [36 favorites]
Look at Trumps plan APART from the hateful rhetoric. Look at his economic proposals.
A lot of the hateful rhetoric affects economics. Removing health insurance, removing benefits, stopping immigration, things that have historically helped keep the workforce strong.
posted by zutalors! at 11:00 AM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
People have no sense of history, and therefore no real means to test things against it
We learn from history that we do not learn from history.
posted by entropicamericana at 11:00 AM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
We learn from history that we do not learn from history.
posted by entropicamericana at 11:00 AM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
Throwing this idea out, since now's the time to get it done:
RidesToTheDMV.org, a website and fund that helps voters without ID fix that well ahead of the next election.
Target NC, WI, TX, et cetera. Coordinate rides to the DMV and financial assistance for those who will lose precious work hours getting this done.
posted by ocschwar at 11:01 AM on November 10, 2016 [8 favorites]
RidesToTheDMV.org, a website and fund that helps voters without ID fix that well ahead of the next election.
Target NC, WI, TX, et cetera. Coordinate rides to the DMV and financial assistance for those who will lose precious work hours getting this done.
posted by ocschwar at 11:01 AM on November 10, 2016 [8 favorites]
The Democratic party is captive to corporate interests and I highly doubt that attempts to clean the party out will be successful.
Why not? The thing about being totally out of power is that the corporate interests suddenly don't give a shit about you anymore. They'll kick in a few shekels just to keep up appearances between old friends, but you will see the OpenSecrets charts trending very far toward the GOP. The Dems are going to have to find other sources of support to supplement this loss in income, and Sanders has provided a template for how that can work. He, Obama, Hillary, and whoever else wants to participate in the rebuild are just going to have to find a way to extend that campaign activity outside the campaign season.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:02 AM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
Why not? The thing about being totally out of power is that the corporate interests suddenly don't give a shit about you anymore. They'll kick in a few shekels just to keep up appearances between old friends, but you will see the OpenSecrets charts trending very far toward the GOP. The Dems are going to have to find other sources of support to supplement this loss in income, and Sanders has provided a template for how that can work. He, Obama, Hillary, and whoever else wants to participate in the rebuild are just going to have to find a way to extend that campaign activity outside the campaign season.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:02 AM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
So yes I agree, wholeheartedly and without reservation, that Hillary Clinton was a flawed candidate. But there’s an extra word in that sentence. It’s the extra word that would still be in that sentence if you replaced the name “Hillary Clinton” with any other name in the recorded history of the world.
what in the hell is the extra word, I've read this fifty times and I don't get it
I'm kind of hoping that Clinton and Obama don't fade into the background as is expected of failed candidates and ex presidents, and come back swinging as a feminist and civil rights organizer.
One of my last optimistic comments before the election results started rolling in had to do with wanting to see NGAF Hillary at last. I still want to see that Hillary.
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:03 AM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
what in the hell is the extra word, I've read this fifty times and I don't get it
I'm kind of hoping that Clinton and Obama don't fade into the background as is expected of failed candidates and ex presidents, and come back swinging as a feminist and civil rights organizer.
One of my last optimistic comments before the election results started rolling in had to do with wanting to see NGAF Hillary at last. I still want to see that Hillary.
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:03 AM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
Apropos of nothing, I wonder what will be in the letter that President Obama will leave for President Trump.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:04 AM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:04 AM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
what in the hell is the extra word, I've read this fifty times and I don't get it
The extra word is "flawed". She's a candidate, all candidates are flawed, therefore "flawed" is unnecessary.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:04 AM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
The extra word is "flawed". She's a candidate, all candidates are flawed, therefore "flawed" is unnecessary.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:04 AM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
I failed to note earlier that election night (3am for us) my husband couldn't understand why the poorer southern states were perennially red. After touching a bit on the obvious racism, historical and current, I forever broke my husband's idea of the American Dream and the USA's much vaunted Freedom by briefly outlining gerrymandering and voter suppression/disenfranchisement. Go me?
Trump's transition website seems to be live. This is really what its name is?
I think www.GreataGain.gov is the almost perfect URL for Trump. Really it only needs a subdomain for perfection: Trumps.GreataGain.gov say it out loud with a fake Jersey accent
I want to see billboards like that with the Obamas on them, one in each of the major cities of each of the battleground states.
I want Hillary, too: "Now how about those emails, fuckers?"
posted by romakimmy at 11:07 AM on November 10, 2016 [7 favorites]
Trump's transition website seems to be live. This is really what its name is?
I think www.GreataGain.gov is the almost perfect URL for Trump. Really it only needs a subdomain for perfection: Trumps.GreataGain.gov say it out loud with a fake Jersey accent
I want to see billboards like that with the Obamas on them, one in each of the major cities of each of the battleground states.
I want Hillary, too: "Now how about those emails, fuckers?"
posted by romakimmy at 11:07 AM on November 10, 2016 [7 favorites]
Apropos of nothing, I wonder what will be in the letter that President Obama will leave for President Trump.
I'm sure it will be sage and salient advice exhorting him to be a uniter, not a divider. But if there were any justice in the world, it'd just be a grainy photocopy of his ass.
posted by Mayor West at 11:07 AM on November 10, 2016 [31 favorites]
I'm sure it will be sage and salient advice exhorting him to be a uniter, not a divider. But if there were any justice in the world, it'd just be a grainy photocopy of his ass.
posted by Mayor West at 11:07 AM on November 10, 2016 [31 favorites]
I think www.GreataGain.gov is the almost perfect URL for Trump.
It's not GrEatAGain.gov?
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 11:08 AM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
It's not GrEatAGain.gov?
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 11:08 AM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
We learn from history that we do not learn from history.
Nader panem nostrum furatur iterum.
posted by petebest at 11:08 AM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
Nader panem nostrum furatur iterum.
posted by petebest at 11:08 AM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
Joe Salazar (D), my Colorado state house representative, supported Sanders in the primary and Clinton in the general. After winning re-election, he posted a message on Facebook that, for me, shows how Sanders supports have and will continue to work within the Democratic Party even when we disagree, sometimes strongly, with our fellow Democrats:
My run as an elected official was never about compromising myself to keep my seat. It was always about doing right by the People. It was about standing up to my own damn Party on things like Amendment 71 (I'm going to hold a grudge on this one for a long time). My family knows this run for office has always been about you, all our children, our future generations, Mother Earth and a more understanding world. I love, thank and honor my family (particularly my wife and daughters) for allowing me to do this.posted by audi alteram partem at 11:08 AM on November 10, 2016 [12 favorites]
After tonight, we will have a lot of work to do and we may face some dark times. Do not despair! We will get through this together!
Love you guys!
Joe
I'm sure it will be sage and salient advice exhorting him to be a uniter, not a divider. But if there were any justice in the world, it'd just be a grainy photocopy of his ass.
I might just go with a picture of RuPaul saying, "And don't fuck it up."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:09 AM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
I might just go with a picture of RuPaul saying, "And don't fuck it up."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:09 AM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
I don't think the Bernie Sanders movement can be fairly compared to the Greens or any other recent third party attempt. It is a genuine movement speaking to what the Democratic party should be. The Democratic party is captive to corporate interests and I highly doubt that attempts to clean the party out will be successful. Trump's election, and Sanders successes and Hillary's lack thereof are a clear indication that Americans are craving a substantial change. A Sanders party could bring many prominent Democrats with it and represents a real opportunity to break the two party system. This is the moment of big change, if that isn't already obvious.
How much time do you have? I think lots of what you say is likely true. Starting a new party and getting it to the point where it could have an affect could take years. It doesn't just happen without masses of structural and administrative organizing. And that doesn't count the length of time for people in the new party to agree on what they are all about in minute detail. The larger the group of people involved the more time this takes.
posted by Jalliah at 11:09 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
How much time do you have? I think lots of what you say is likely true. Starting a new party and getting it to the point where it could have an affect could take years. It doesn't just happen without masses of structural and administrative organizing. And that doesn't count the length of time for people in the new party to agree on what they are all about in minute detail. The larger the group of people involved the more time this takes.
posted by Jalliah at 11:09 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
acb:Have there been any good accounts of this process as it happened in Nazi Germany
Have you read the diaries of diaries of Viktor Klemperer? He was a German Jew (newly defined as such under the race laws), married to a gentile, who survived the war via Dresden. They address the creeping racism in Germany in the 1930s and through the war in exquisite, terrifying detail - he had a foot in both communities and a knack for the telling observation.
posted by Rumple at 1:28 PM on November 10 [7 favorites −] Favorite added! [!]
Rumple, you beat me to it. One of the most striking moments for me in I Will Bear Witness is in December 1941 or January 1942, when a Gentile friend mentions to him that he's seeing a lot more Jews walking on the street these days, so the friend figures they must have been emboldened by the US' entry into the war. The friend is completely unaware that Jews have just been banned from riding the streetcars.
posted by McCoy Pauley at 11:10 AM on November 10, 2016 [49 favorites]
Have you read the diaries of diaries of Viktor Klemperer? He was a German Jew (newly defined as such under the race laws), married to a gentile, who survived the war via Dresden. They address the creeping racism in Germany in the 1930s and through the war in exquisite, terrifying detail - he had a foot in both communities and a knack for the telling observation.
posted by Rumple at 1:28 PM on November 10 [7 favorites −] Favorite added! [!]
Rumple, you beat me to it. One of the most striking moments for me in I Will Bear Witness is in December 1941 or January 1942, when a Gentile friend mentions to him that he's seeing a lot more Jews walking on the street these days, so the friend figures they must have been emboldened by the US' entry into the war. The friend is completely unaware that Jews have just been banned from riding the streetcars.
posted by McCoy Pauley at 11:10 AM on November 10, 2016 [49 favorites]
I came to the conclusion that every time someone said Clinton was a "flawed" candidate the flaw was that she was a woman.
posted by bongo_x at 11:11 AM on November 10, 2016 [43 favorites]
posted by bongo_x at 11:11 AM on November 10, 2016 [43 favorites]
Apropos of nothing, I wonder what will be in the letter that President Obama will leave for President Trump.
"Mr. President -- I ask of you one thing, and one thing only... Ah, who am I kidding. You're not reading this. I could put anything here, and it wouldn't matter. BUSH DID 9/11. See? I don't believe at all that you'll ever tell anyone that I said that, because you didn't read this note. I WAS BORN IN KENYA. YOU WERE RIGHT ALL ALONG. Never gonna see that on the news either. Whoo... what else should I right here? Hold on, lemme ask Joe. Joe says BUTTS LOL. That doesn't help. He says that a lot. Okay, I guess that's it then. Good luck. That's for me, really. You've already got pretty much all the luck there could possibly be in the world. So I'll just wish for a little for me and mine. - BHO"
posted by Etrigan at 11:11 AM on November 10, 2016 [17 favorites]
"Mr. President -- I ask of you one thing, and one thing only... Ah, who am I kidding. You're not reading this. I could put anything here, and it wouldn't matter. BUSH DID 9/11. See? I don't believe at all that you'll ever tell anyone that I said that, because you didn't read this note. I WAS BORN IN KENYA. YOU WERE RIGHT ALL ALONG. Never gonna see that on the news either. Whoo... what else should I right here? Hold on, lemme ask Joe. Joe says BUTTS LOL. That doesn't help. He says that a lot. Okay, I guess that's it then. Good luck. That's for me, really. You've already got pretty much all the luck there could possibly be in the world. So I'll just wish for a little for me and mine. - BHO"
posted by Etrigan at 11:11 AM on November 10, 2016 [17 favorites]
At the risk of having the anti-Nate-Silver crowd jump all over me: What A Difference 2 Percentage Points Makes
posted by Halloween Jack at 11:11 AM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Halloween Jack at 11:11 AM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
Just imagine the letter the president-elect leaves for his successor.
posted by kirkaracha at 11:12 AM on November 10, 2016
posted by kirkaracha at 11:12 AM on November 10, 2016
I don't trust anything he says. He came out conciliatory after meeting the Mexican President, and was back to "fuck Mexicans" as soon as he was in front of a crowd.
The dude is a pathological narcissist. One of the symptoms is that he'll say anything to bask in the approval of whomever he's with. You want to see this in real time, look at his behavior during rallies. He doesn't have a point to what he says, his only goal is to read the crowd and repeat whatever will get him cheers. This also means when he's on the phone with South Korea, if they praise him he'll say what they want to hear. If Obama flatters him he'll say what makes Obama happy. He's tremendously susceptible to manipulation provided you keep the flattery coming, and it is what makes him so dangerous. Putin understands this. The bigots around him understand this. Things start failing when he feels you don't respect him, give the impression that the ideas you feed him are not his own, or expect him to resist retaliating against even the smallest slight. His managers fail because they ultimately expected him to behave strategically of his own volition, rather than manipulating him into believing the strategic behavior was what he wanted to do all along.
The only remotely political issue Trump has stuck with for any amount of time is birtherism. He's otherwise a blank slate motivated by naught but ego and privilege.
I suspect the power struggles that will be going on behind the scenes of the Trump White House will rival the scheming seen within the Ottoman courts. Or not--Bannon's entire existence is due to his ability to manipulate men like Trump for his own purposes. That is the point of Breitbart. Could be nobody will be able to unseat him. Even the most detestable members of Congress still expect a certain degree of rationality that you simply can't get with that creature.
posted by Anonymous at 11:13 AM on November 10, 2016
The dude is a pathological narcissist. One of the symptoms is that he'll say anything to bask in the approval of whomever he's with. You want to see this in real time, look at his behavior during rallies. He doesn't have a point to what he says, his only goal is to read the crowd and repeat whatever will get him cheers. This also means when he's on the phone with South Korea, if they praise him he'll say what they want to hear. If Obama flatters him he'll say what makes Obama happy. He's tremendously susceptible to manipulation provided you keep the flattery coming, and it is what makes him so dangerous. Putin understands this. The bigots around him understand this. Things start failing when he feels you don't respect him, give the impression that the ideas you feed him are not his own, or expect him to resist retaliating against even the smallest slight. His managers fail because they ultimately expected him to behave strategically of his own volition, rather than manipulating him into believing the strategic behavior was what he wanted to do all along.
The only remotely political issue Trump has stuck with for any amount of time is birtherism. He's otherwise a blank slate motivated by naught but ego and privilege.
I suspect the power struggles that will be going on behind the scenes of the Trump White House will rival the scheming seen within the Ottoman courts. Or not--Bannon's entire existence is due to his ability to manipulate men like Trump for his own purposes. That is the point of Breitbart. Could be nobody will be able to unseat him. Even the most detestable members of Congress still expect a certain degree of rationality that you simply can't get with that creature.
posted by Anonymous at 11:13 AM on November 10, 2016
That said, he has a lot of "alt-right" friends who hate "SJWs". I joked about alt-right friends of his, and he said actually - all my alt-right friends are old leftists who got burned by the progressives.
To be fair, there really is a problem of left-on-left harassment and bullying happening on places like tumblr and twitter, including stalking and doxing. Both platforms are capitalizing drama. The peer-to-peer structures of those media limit the creation of meaningful boundaries and context, and serve as a megaphone for crankery. I find the solution there is to just disengage from those platforms rather than do a backflip to alt-right wankery.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 11:14 AM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
To be fair, there really is a problem of left-on-left harassment and bullying happening on places like tumblr and twitter, including stalking and doxing. Both platforms are capitalizing drama. The peer-to-peer structures of those media limit the creation of meaningful boundaries and context, and serve as a megaphone for crankery. I find the solution there is to just disengage from those platforms rather than do a backflip to alt-right wankery.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 11:14 AM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
'We Mourn, We Fight, We Love': Moving Forward as a Trans Dad in Trump's America
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:15 AM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:15 AM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
White nationalism and bigotry is an important factor and should not be minimized. Yet-
"Preliminary, but HRC's fall among black women rel to 2012 was, in raw vote terms, almost as much as her fall among white men."
This must be verified. If Clinton really failed to rally female and minority support (at least to the level that Obama did), despite Trump representing white nationalism (and hence, an existential threat), what does that say about her candidacy?
The problem I have with the "they're bigots, plain and simple" narrative is that it's defeatist. "Some people are irredeemable, ignorant haters and should get out (of our political process)" is not a valid strategy. If people want to give up on them and work around it, that's fine, but then their votes- and electoral votes- need to be made up for. If the above is accurate, her campaign did not achieve that.
That all said, this is also true: "I'm from the rural midwest. All of this talk about coastal elites needing to understand more of America has it backwards."
"I think we can at least raise our standards and not deify middle america as real america."
posted by Apocryphon at 11:15 AM on November 10, 2016 [9 favorites]
"Preliminary, but HRC's fall among black women rel to 2012 was, in raw vote terms, almost as much as her fall among white men."
This must be verified. If Clinton really failed to rally female and minority support (at least to the level that Obama did), despite Trump representing white nationalism (and hence, an existential threat), what does that say about her candidacy?
The problem I have with the "they're bigots, plain and simple" narrative is that it's defeatist. "Some people are irredeemable, ignorant haters and should get out (of our political process)" is not a valid strategy. If people want to give up on them and work around it, that's fine, but then their votes- and electoral votes- need to be made up for. If the above is accurate, her campaign did not achieve that.
That all said, this is also true: "I'm from the rural midwest. All of this talk about coastal elites needing to understand more of America has it backwards."
"I think we can at least raise our standards and not deify middle america as real america."
posted by Apocryphon at 11:15 AM on November 10, 2016 [9 favorites]
I forever broke my husband's idea of the American Dream and the USA's much vaunted Freedom
A lot of people need this, unfortunately. We are taught to believe in the [insert nation of choice] dream, and "land of opportunity", and "hard work always pays off" bullshit from a very young age -and liberals perpetuate it as much as conservatives - and it simply isn't true. Letting go of it can be one of those red pill moments that are life-changing.
posted by rocket88 at 11:16 AM on November 10, 2016 [9 favorites]
A lot of people need this, unfortunately. We are taught to believe in the [insert nation of choice] dream, and "land of opportunity", and "hard work always pays off" bullshit from a very young age -and liberals perpetuate it as much as conservatives - and it simply isn't true. Letting go of it can be one of those red pill moments that are life-changing.
posted by rocket88 at 11:16 AM on November 10, 2016 [9 favorites]
Seeing that our president elect always seems to parrot the last person he's spoken to, maybe Obama should spend a LOT of time with him and maintain daily contact for the next four years.
posted by mochapickle at 11:17 AM on November 10, 2016 [18 favorites]
posted by mochapickle at 11:17 AM on November 10, 2016 [18 favorites]
There was a thing on the radio yesterday about the fate of Obamacare, and how nobody has any idea what the "replace" of "repeal and replace"Trump may be the kind of person who would say anything to get elected (and Clinton probably is too), but he does go into some detail about his healthcare plans, FWIW.
posted by Coventry at 11:18 AM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
- Completely repeal Obamacare. Our elected representatives must eliminate the individual mandate. No person should be required to buy insurance unless he or she wants to.
- Modify existing law that inhibits the sale of health insurance across state lines. As long as the plan purchased complies with state requirements, any vendor ought to be able to offer insurance in any state. By allowing full competition in this market, insurance costs will go down and consumer satisfaction will go up.
- Allow individuals to fully deduct health insurance premium payments from their tax returns under the current tax system. Businesses are allowed to take these deductions so why wouldn’t Congress allow individuals the same exemptions? As we allow the free market to provide insurance coverage opportunities to companies and individuals, we must also make sure that no one slips through the cracks simply because they cannot afford insurance. We must review basic options for Medicaid and work with states to ensure that those who want healthcare coverage can have it.
- Allow individuals to use Health Savings Accounts (HSAs). Contributions into HSAs should be tax-free and should be allowed to accumulate. These accounts would become part of the estate of the individual and could be passed on to heirs without fear of any death penalty. These plans should be particularly attractive to young people who are healthy and can afford high-deductible insurance plans. These funds can be used by any member of a family without penalty. The flexibility and security provided by HSAs will be of great benefit to all who participate.
- Require price transparency from all healthcare providers, especially doctors and healthcare organizations like clinics and hospitals. Individuals should be able to shop to find the best prices for procedures, exams or any other medical-related procedure.
- Block-grant Medicaid to the states. Nearly every state already offers benefits beyond what is required in the current Medicaid structure. The state governments know their people best and can manage the administration of Medicaid far better without federal overhead. States will have the incentives to seek out and eliminate fraud, waste and abuse to preserve our precious resources.
- Remove barriers to entry into free markets for drug providers that offer safe, reliable and cheaper products. Congress will need the courage to step away from the special interests and do what is right for America. Though the pharmaceutical industry is in the private sector, drug companies provide a public service. Allowing consumers access to imported, safe and dependable drugs from overseas will bring more options to consumers.
Tom Scocca: Donald Trump Is The Leader America Was Promised:
Seventeen months ago, Donald Trump hired actors to cheer for his campaign announcement and told people they were watching a movement. He rarely told the truth about anything thereafter, till his deceit and sloppy contempt became his biggest qualification: If the white electorate could make a lazy grifter president, they would know for a fact that they were truly capable of anything.posted by palindromic at 11:19 AM on November 10, 2016 [18 favorites]
Against this, Hillary Clinton had what? The cities, yes, securely. One and a half of the coasts, unbreakable for more than a generation now. It was a solid foundation if you wanted to win the whole country, but Trump had no interest in winning the whole country. Obama had won as much of the country as he could, and pledged to govern it all, and in return he got obstruction. The Republican governors of the South and Midwest, including the decisive battlegrounds of Florida and Wisconsin, refused the expansion of Medicaid for their own citizens, so they could tell people that Obama hadn’t done anything for them.
Govern badly, and convince the people that government doesn’t work. That was the long-term strategy, and it paid off.
The problem I have with the "they're bigots, plain and simple" narrative
Where is that narrative on display in this thread? I see people saying we should confront bigotry. If they're irredeemable, then why would we bother to confront it?
To the extent that anyone is saying certain groups shouldn't be kowtowed to, it's about the most efficient application of scarce resources, including time, money, and "even"s. If it takes more of those resources to bridge the gap to a bigot than it does to get more non-bigots out to the polls next time, why would they prioritize the bigots?
posted by tonycpsu at 11:19 AM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
Where is that narrative on display in this thread? I see people saying we should confront bigotry. If they're irredeemable, then why would we bother to confront it?
To the extent that anyone is saying certain groups shouldn't be kowtowed to, it's about the most efficient application of scarce resources, including time, money, and "even"s. If it takes more of those resources to bridge the gap to a bigot than it does to get more non-bigots out to the polls next time, why would they prioritize the bigots?
posted by tonycpsu at 11:19 AM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
Buddy was a blowhard car salesman, a business leader who thought he knew it all, and appeared early in Friday Night Lights as a kind of villain, an aggravating former quarterback throwing his money and weight around. But Buddy soon became more sympathetic. Yes, he was a bloviating self-aggrandizer who always thought he was right, but he was also loyal, good-humored, and well-meaning, a pain in the ass, sure, but a lovable, irascible pal. I have been thinking about Buddy Garrity because he has been comforting me. I think he would have voted for Trump.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:20 AM on November 10, 2016
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:20 AM on November 10, 2016
People do not understand that when trans women begin to be erased from the daylight, it is the signal that our civilization is slowly dimming toward a darker age.
When we, trans women, emerge into the light, we mark the promise a better possible world. When we emerge and are allowed to exist in public is when you may allow yourself to know the world is healing and getting better.
When trans women are no longer actively protected and forced back into the shadows is when everyone else who does not "fit the mold" should look behind their shoulders and wonder if that dark force that erased trans women is now hunting for them.
posted by Annika Cicada at 8:54 AM on May 5
posted by Annika Cicada at 11:20 AM on November 10, 2016 [54 favorites]
When we, trans women, emerge into the light, we mark the promise a better possible world. When we emerge and are allowed to exist in public is when you may allow yourself to know the world is healing and getting better.
When trans women are no longer actively protected and forced back into the shadows is when everyone else who does not "fit the mold" should look behind their shoulders and wonder if that dark force that erased trans women is now hunting for them.
posted by Annika Cicada at 8:54 AM on May 5
posted by Annika Cicada at 11:20 AM on November 10, 2016 [54 favorites]
What makes him so scary is that I don't think he's ever lying. Or at least he doesn't believe he is. He says whatever comes into his head at the time without even thinking about it. He can't lie, because he doesn't really believe anything. He just says stuff, and keeps saying stuff and more stuff and more stuff, without considering content or implications.
Exactly this.
Perhaps someone less vile than Bannon will worm their way into Trump's ear. "Less vile" being a low bar--I'm thinking someone who doesn't seriously believe lynch mobs need to make a comeback.
posted by Anonymous at 11:21 AM on November 10, 2016
Exactly this.
Perhaps someone less vile than Bannon will worm their way into Trump's ear. "Less vile" being a low bar--I'm thinking someone who doesn't seriously believe lynch mobs need to make a comeback.
posted by Anonymous at 11:21 AM on November 10, 2016
The night before the election, a friend told me he had become a member of the social democratic party here.
Over here in Poundland, I joined the Labour Party before the Brexit vote, have since become a paid supporter of the Guardian, and will be donating to the EFF and others very soon. However flawed these organizations may be, they need supporting if they're going to stand a snowball's chance of standing up to the brave new world order that is appearing. Also, in Labour's case, they need ordinary people turning up to meetings, making a fuss, and telling them to stop playing politics and get on with the job...
And a question from a Limey who knows little of US politics: shouldn't Comey's intervention so close to the election day be taken as an attempt to influence the outcome, and render the result suspect? ISTR Mr Trump slinging accusations of ballot rigging around, and it would seem to me that this was a very similar tactic...
posted by 43rdAnd9th at 11:22 AM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
Over here in Poundland, I joined the Labour Party before the Brexit vote, have since become a paid supporter of the Guardian, and will be donating to the EFF and others very soon. However flawed these organizations may be, they need supporting if they're going to stand a snowball's chance of standing up to the brave new world order that is appearing. Also, in Labour's case, they need ordinary people turning up to meetings, making a fuss, and telling them to stop playing politics and get on with the job...
And a question from a Limey who knows little of US politics: shouldn't Comey's intervention so close to the election day be taken as an attempt to influence the outcome, and render the result suspect? ISTR Mr Trump slinging accusations of ballot rigging around, and it would seem to me that this was a very similar tactic...
posted by 43rdAnd9th at 11:22 AM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
I am so nauseous. I wonder if I'll feel this way for the rest of my life. I work with homeless people - watching 100+ people lining up at one of our local food bank pickup sites this morning, I felt hopeless about how much worse everything is going to get. I am thinking of my trans loved ones so much right now, my own queer, gender non-conforming self, my Muslim and Latinx neighbors, and my daughter and her peers growing up into this world. This is such a horror show.
What should we be doing right now? Ideas I've had so far:
- Keep attending demonstrations in the street
- Ask local mosques if they want specific types of support and solidarity
- Donations to large environmental, civil rights, and civil liberties groups
- Be extra kind and generous with everyone I meet
What else should we be doing?
posted by latkes at 11:23 AM on November 10, 2016 [7 favorites]
What should we be doing right now? Ideas I've had so far:
- Keep attending demonstrations in the street
- Ask local mosques if they want specific types of support and solidarity
- Donations to large environmental, civil rights, and civil liberties groups
- Be extra kind and generous with everyone I meet
What else should we be doing?
posted by latkes at 11:23 AM on November 10, 2016 [7 favorites]
Bernie Sanders Backs Rep. Keith Ellison For DNC Chair:
posted by palindromic at 11:24 AM on November 10, 2016 [49 favorites]
Sanders gave his pick for DNC chair in an interview with the Associated Press. Ellison, perhaps more than other candidates to succeed former chair Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz (D-FL), has put himself forward for the job. According to an October Politico report, Ellison had reached out to state party chairs, Hillary Clinton campaign officials and other Democrats connected to the committee.This is one way to start the transformation the Democratic Party.
Ellison and Sanders were brothers in arms for much of the presidential campaign season. Ellison, one of two Muslim members of Congress, was the second member of that body to endorse Sander’s bid for the Democratic nomination for president.
posted by palindromic at 11:24 AM on November 10, 2016 [49 favorites]
The GOP did all in its power to prevent legislation from taking place, and therefore Obama got some stuff done via executive orders. These will all be undone by GOP. Years from now, if Dems ever get back in power, we will have the same situation and exec actions to legislate. A new pattern develops as the non-cooperation persists between parties. This will make for much uncertainty and chaos between election cycles
The GOP wisely held off voting on Supreme Court justice and now they will most likely put two of their choice on that court in the next 4-8 years.
posted by Postroad at 11:24 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
The GOP wisely held off voting on Supreme Court justice and now they will most likely put two of their choice on that court in the next 4-8 years.
posted by Postroad at 11:24 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
These 2 charts explain how racism helped fuel Trump’s victory
So Kaufmann tried to get at the reasons white, level-10 Trump supporters might have liked the candidate so much. He asked them what they thought the most important issues facing the county were, and then compared them with the issues that people who rated their Trump support at zero prioritized. The results are in the following chart [...]Trump’s administration is looking like it’ll be very white and very male
What you see, clearly, is that Trump supporters are far more likely than Trump opponents to see immigration and terrorism — deeply tied to racial and ethnic identity — as America's top issue. They also seem quite unconcerned by economic inequality.
Of the 47 names on this list we combed from a combination of sources, just two are people of color — Ben Carson and David Clarke.posted by tonycpsu at 11:26 AM on November 10, 2016 [15 favorites]
Just eight are women — Sarah Palin, Pam Bondi, Victoria Lipnic, Jan Brewer, Mary Fallin, Cynthia Lummis, Carol Comer, and Leslie Rutledge. And several of them are being considered for the same four positions: attorney general, secretary of labor, secretary of interior, and Environmental Protection Agency administrator.
I cannot fathom the amount of damage these people will be able to do in the next 2 (and likely 4) years.
I am nowhere near extended rational thought right now, but all signs point to impending incompetence, from the cabinet picks downward. Senior political-appointee posts will be hard to fill -- The Daily Beast has a piece suggesting difficulty even assembling a transition team on national security -- and there'll be collisions between the Standard Family NDA and federal clearance requirements once you get past the tier of potential political appointees who want none of it, as well as the career professionals who make pragmatic or conscience decisions to walk away. (Those who stay because of their commitment to public service deserve our support.)
The consequences of that are even more unpredictable and harder to repair.
posted by holgate at 11:26 AM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
I am nowhere near extended rational thought right now, but all signs point to impending incompetence, from the cabinet picks downward. Senior political-appointee posts will be hard to fill -- The Daily Beast has a piece suggesting difficulty even assembling a transition team on national security -- and there'll be collisions between the Standard Family NDA and federal clearance requirements once you get past the tier of potential political appointees who want none of it, as well as the career professionals who make pragmatic or conscience decisions to walk away. (Those who stay because of their commitment to public service deserve our support.)
The consequences of that are even more unpredictable and harder to repair.
posted by holgate at 11:26 AM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
The Democratic party is captive to corporate interests and I highly doubt that attempts to clean the party out will be successful. Trump's election, and Sanders successes and Hillary's lack thereof are a clear indication that Americans are craving a substantial change. A Sanders party could bring many prominent Democrats with it and represents a real opportunity to break the two party system.
Sanders' success was getting a whole bunch of his platform adopted by the Democratic party, even though he lost to Hillary by millions of votes. Hillary took that platform and won the popular vote. You're almost there within the Democratic Party, you're already trying to bring "prominent Democrats" over to this new party (I have to assume that these are already Dems that you feel are not captive to corporate interests, correct? And there's a large enough number of them to start a new party from scratch, but somehow not to alter the course of the party they're already in?) you just have to fight to finish it. Starting a new party will split the liberal vote and allow Republicans to run roughshod for at least a decade. There is no presto-quick solution to this problem, you have to work.
posted by LionIndex at 11:26 AM on November 10, 2016 [14 favorites]
Sanders' success was getting a whole bunch of his platform adopted by the Democratic party, even though he lost to Hillary by millions of votes. Hillary took that platform and won the popular vote. You're almost there within the Democratic Party, you're already trying to bring "prominent Democrats" over to this new party (I have to assume that these are already Dems that you feel are not captive to corporate interests, correct? And there's a large enough number of them to start a new party from scratch, but somehow not to alter the course of the party they're already in?) you just have to fight to finish it. Starting a new party will split the liberal vote and allow Republicans to run roughshod for at least a decade. There is no presto-quick solution to this problem, you have to work.
posted by LionIndex at 11:26 AM on November 10, 2016 [14 favorites]
...with it and represents a real opportunity to break the two party system.
If you're not talking about changing how we vote in the same breath, you're just blowing hot air.
1st past the goal-post voting means we will ALWAYS have two roughly equal parties. It's just fucking MATH and there is no overcoming it.
If you're not talking about introducing ranked choice voting or something similar, you're not serious about 3rd parties.
posted by VTX at 11:26 AM on November 10, 2016 [21 favorites]
If you're not talking about changing how we vote in the same breath, you're just blowing hot air.
1st past the goal-post voting means we will ALWAYS have two roughly equal parties. It's just fucking MATH and there is no overcoming it.
If you're not talking about introducing ranked choice voting or something similar, you're not serious about 3rd parties.
posted by VTX at 11:26 AM on November 10, 2016 [21 favorites]
I'm clinging to a little hope that reality TV star and person who craves respect and adulation Donald J. Trump will realize that, now that he's won the election by riding hard on the right wing, his best chance to be remembered as a hugely popular and surprisingly effective president is to pivot crazy hard to the center and be way less racist, destructive, and horrible than we all feared.
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:27 AM on November 10, 2016 [24 favorites]
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:27 AM on November 10, 2016 [24 favorites]
@pgrrrls: Please cease with the white privilege bullshit of "good art will come out of this"
Yeah ... I lived through the 80s. While punk rock gave me community and a political lens that has proved incredibly useful, the multiple, formative years of abject terror of nuclear war scarred me for life. I wouldn't wish that on anyone.
posted by ryanshepard at 11:28 AM on November 10, 2016 [7 favorites]
Yeah ... I lived through the 80s. While punk rock gave me community and a political lens that has proved incredibly useful, the multiple, formative years of abject terror of nuclear war scarred me for life. I wouldn't wish that on anyone.
posted by ryanshepard at 11:28 AM on November 10, 2016 [7 favorites]
all signs point to impending incompetence, from the cabinet picks downwardI've underestimated him at every step of the way, and I hope I'm underestimating him now. But it does look that way.
posted by Coventry at 11:29 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
Jonathan Capehart on Channel 4 News (UK) in tears talking about his fears as a gay African-American. Heartbreaking.
posted by threetwentytwo at 11:29 AM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by threetwentytwo at 11:29 AM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
Bernie Sanders Backs Rep. Keith Ellison For DNC Chair:
Can DNC chairs hold office? I am totally for this plan but I also like having Ellison as my representative.
posted by dinty_moore at 11:30 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
Can DNC chairs hold office? I am totally for this plan but I also like having Ellison as my representative.
posted by dinty_moore at 11:30 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
We tacked pretty far to the left with our platform this time around. If I'm the DNC, my take-away if probably going to be "we need to tack more to the center/right next time if we want to win." When the Overton Window moves to the right, everything else moves to the right, too. I will be (pleasantly) stunned if things move farther to left, but we didn't exactly see a progressiven wave from 2001-09, so I'm not really expecting to see anything like the Jill Stein-led green revolution from 2017-20. Anything the DNC does to tack to the left clearly pushes out an equal or greater number of people from the center.
What I would focus on now, were I the head of the DNCircus, is immediately and aggressively start recruiting young progressives old enough to run for state offices in every state I could to run for local offices in 2018. Work to turn state houses and senates blue and develop a strong back bench so that in 8-12 years there's a large wave of experienced, progressive politicians who can start running for federal offices. I wouldn't be focusing on 2018 or even 2020 - I'd be focusing on 2022 and 2024.
I mean, of course we should work towards getting candidates elected at the federal level in 2018, but the Democrats lack a deep bench and the Republicans control way, way too many states.
all signs point to impending incompetence, from the cabinet picks downward
While one should not mistake incompetence for malice, on the ground both have the same effect.
posted by Joey Michaels at 11:30 AM on November 10, 2016 [7 favorites]
What I would focus on now, were I the head of the DNCircus, is immediately and aggressively start recruiting young progressives old enough to run for state offices in every state I could to run for local offices in 2018. Work to turn state houses and senates blue and develop a strong back bench so that in 8-12 years there's a large wave of experienced, progressive politicians who can start running for federal offices. I wouldn't be focusing on 2018 or even 2020 - I'd be focusing on 2022 and 2024.
I mean, of course we should work towards getting candidates elected at the federal level in 2018, but the Democrats lack a deep bench and the Republicans control way, way too many states.
all signs point to impending incompetence, from the cabinet picks downward
While one should not mistake incompetence for malice, on the ground both have the same effect.
posted by Joey Michaels at 11:30 AM on November 10, 2016 [7 favorites]
Day One - Jalliah, your mum's friend's story is there.
posted by urbanwhaleshark at 11:30 AM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by urbanwhaleshark at 11:30 AM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
[The appointment of Ellison to chairmanship of the DNC] is one way to start the transformation the Democratic Party.How is the chair chosen? Who should be pressured to choose him, and what leverage can be brought to bear on them?
posted by Coventry at 11:31 AM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
Fred Clark, as always, has insightful things to say: White evangelicalism is white nationalism
the invention, too, of white evangelicalism as a whole — was the defense of slavery. This was not simply a “biblical” defense of immorality and injustice, it was also a form of self-deception — a device that allowed white evangelicals to defend the indefensible while pretending to themselves that doing so put them on the side of the Bible and of God. The need to think of themselves as good and righteous despite defending the massive injustice of white nationalism led to the invention of a new doctrine that allowed them to pretend that they were good and righteous because they defended the massive injustice of white nationalism.
One of the things I've been thinking about is how racism and slavery was part of our nation from the beginning, and how it has continued to be a cancer in us that erupts in unexpected and deadly ways. I don't think we'll ever get to a good place as a country till we root it out, but getting rid of cancers is hard and painful work and there's no guarantees that we'll survive the attempt.
posted by emjaybee at 11:32 AM on November 10, 2016 [10 favorites]
the invention, too, of white evangelicalism as a whole — was the defense of slavery. This was not simply a “biblical” defense of immorality and injustice, it was also a form of self-deception — a device that allowed white evangelicals to defend the indefensible while pretending to themselves that doing so put them on the side of the Bible and of God. The need to think of themselves as good and righteous despite defending the massive injustice of white nationalism led to the invention of a new doctrine that allowed them to pretend that they were good and righteous because they defended the massive injustice of white nationalism.
One of the things I've been thinking about is how racism and slavery was part of our nation from the beginning, and how it has continued to be a cancer in us that erupts in unexpected and deadly ways. I don't think we'll ever get to a good place as a country till we root it out, but getting rid of cancers is hard and painful work and there's no guarantees that we'll survive the attempt.
posted by emjaybee at 11:32 AM on November 10, 2016 [10 favorites]
Can DNC chairs hold office? I am totally for this plan but I also like having Ellison as my representative.
Former DNC Chair Debbie Wasserman Schultz is the Congressional Representative of the 23rd District of Florida, so that shouldn't be a problem.
posted by palindromic at 11:32 AM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
Former DNC Chair Debbie Wasserman Schultz is the Congressional Representative of the 23rd District of Florida, so that shouldn't be a problem.
posted by palindromic at 11:32 AM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
While one should not mistake incompetence for malice, on the ground both have the same effect.
Don't worry, when it's Newt Gingrich and Rudy Giuliani you don't have to choose!
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 11:32 AM on November 10, 2016 [10 favorites]
Don't worry, when it's Newt Gingrich and Rudy Giuliani you don't have to choose!
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 11:32 AM on November 10, 2016 [10 favorites]
And a question from a Limey who knows little of US politics: shouldn't Comey's intervention so close to the election day be taken as an attempt to influence the outcome, and render the result suspect?
Question from a Yank:
An event like this in Britain would possibly trigger a hasty snap by-election, right?
The US has a rigid calendar for the federal elections, so that remedy is out of the question.
(And to re-mount my hobby horse) The rigid calendar is the biggest flaw in the Constitution. It was needed to coordinate a federal government using ox carts and row boats. It needs to go.
posted by ocschwar at 11:33 AM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
What makes him so scary is that I don't think he's ever lying. Or at least he doesn't believe he is. He says whatever comes into his head at the time without even thinking about it. He can't lie, because he doesn't really believe anything. He just says stuff, and keeps saying stuff and more stuff and more stuff, without considering content or implications.
I don't really agree that he's never lying. When he would point at the press pool, and say they never show the crowds, that the cameras don't turn, he knew he was lying because he knew those cameras were specifically meant to be on him the whole time, and that they were meant to be tight shots that don't show his teleprompter. He wanted the press to look crooked, not just for applause, but to show that he was an outsider that the elitist press didn't like, just like his followers think of themselves.
He is a narcissist, and he is also a very successful con man who has been screwing over people for his whole life, and no one should be underestimating him at all. When Obama was first asked about Trump being the nominee, he joked that the Democrats were happy with the RNC's choice. And now he's going to be president.
posted by airish at 11:33 AM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
I don't really agree that he's never lying. When he would point at the press pool, and say they never show the crowds, that the cameras don't turn, he knew he was lying because he knew those cameras were specifically meant to be on him the whole time, and that they were meant to be tight shots that don't show his teleprompter. He wanted the press to look crooked, not just for applause, but to show that he was an outsider that the elitist press didn't like, just like his followers think of themselves.
He is a narcissist, and he is also a very successful con man who has been screwing over people for his whole life, and no one should be underestimating him at all. When Obama was first asked about Trump being the nominee, he joked that the Democrats were happy with the RNC's choice. And now he's going to be president.
posted by airish at 11:33 AM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
this should have been our first woman president. She would have won in a landslide.
posted by any major dude at 11:34 AM on November 10, 2016
posted by any major dude at 11:34 AM on November 10, 2016
Elizabeth Warren did not want to be president.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:34 AM on November 10, 2016 [24 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:34 AM on November 10, 2016 [24 favorites]
any major dude: I was so dismayed when she chose not to run.
posted by Coventry at 11:35 AM on November 10, 2016
posted by Coventry at 11:35 AM on November 10, 2016
Panama Jackson at VSB: This Election Failed My Daughter:
On a personal level, I REALLY wanted to see a world where (hopefully) for my daughter’s first sixteen years of life, all she would have seen as President were Obama and Hillary Clinton: a Black man and a woman. Two “boxes” (Black and woman) that historically have had the power to hold her back. And yet, here we were, on the brink of a nation that somehow managed to put two separate minority groups into the most powerful position on the planet. Back to back.posted by palindromic at 11:35 AM on November 10, 2016 [10 favorites]
I was excited for my daughter as I prepared to take my “I Voted” sticker and hand it to her to show her that with my vote, I was voting her for future and helping break that glass ceiling, effectively telling her there was absolutely NOTHING she couldn’t aspire for and as instead of them being open words, there was some truth to them. The truth would be in the pudding.
And then Tuesday happened. I obviously don’t need to relive that for anybody as I’m aware the pain, disappointment, and despair will carry with many of us for a while. I spent most of yesterday disappointed, texting and emailing friends to check in on them to see how they were doing in light of the results, and processing for myself.
I take my daughter to school every morning. On Wednesday, I picked her up from her mother’s house and when I looked at her, I told her I was “I’m sorry.” And how much I really wanted a world where a woman was President for her. And she told me, “I know, daddy. It’s okay.”
My I voted sticker is leering at me.
posted by Sphinx at 11:36 AM on November 10, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by Sphinx at 11:36 AM on November 10, 2016 [8 favorites]
I'm very heartened by Bernie's suggestion of Keith Ellison for the next DNC head. Sounds good to me, let's make it happen.
And a question from a Limey who knows little of US politics: shouldn't Comey's intervention so close to the election day be taken as an attempt to influence the outcome, and render the result suspect?
Yes.
However, there's no established mechanism for dealing with this kind of interference, and no political will on the part of those in power to create one now.
posted by tobascodagama at 11:37 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
And a question from a Limey who knows little of US politics: shouldn't Comey's intervention so close to the election day be taken as an attempt to influence the outcome, and render the result suspect?
Yes.
However, there's no established mechanism for dealing with this kind of interference, and no political will on the part of those in power to create one now.
posted by tobascodagama at 11:37 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
'What Do I Say?': Stories From the Classroom After Election Day:
Teachers have been dealing with the specter of Donald Trump long before he was actually elected President of the United States. They’ve apologized for assigning the presidential debates as homework, faced frighteningly emboldened bullies, and comforted the terrified children of immigrants. This was imagined, by many, to be a temporary problem.posted by palindromic at 11:37 AM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
The educators of this country are now dealing with a dizzying range of acute threats that this country’s president-elect poses—for their students, for themselves, for the public education system, for the entire world. In a disaster that’s shocked us down into childlike feelings of rage and fear and impotence, authority is difficult to perform.
“These kids hear things like ‘they’re gonna build a wall’ and ‘they’re gonna kick out all the immigrants’ and ‘Muslims are gonna be banned,’” one teacher told Jezebel. “How do I tell a 7-year-old that’s not true when I don’t know that? I don’t know how to have that conversation.”
She would have won in a landslide.
I'm not so certain. She has the same "flaw" as Hillary, just without the 25 years of relentless "evidence."
posted by stopgap at 11:37 AM on November 10, 2016 [31 favorites]
I'm not so certain. She has the same "flaw" as Hillary, just without the 25 years of relentless "evidence."
posted by stopgap at 11:37 AM on November 10, 2016 [31 favorites]
I was cleaning up stuff and hurled my 500 pages of state and local ballot information booklets down the recycling chute with such a fit of rage this morning. It felt good.
posted by zachlipton at 11:37 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by zachlipton at 11:37 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
And she told me, “I know, daddy. It’s okay.”
The part of parenting when you see your sweet baby acting strong for you because they want to protect your feelings and keep you from too much worry.
posted by Annika Cicada at 11:38 AM on November 10, 2016 [13 favorites]
The part of parenting when you see your sweet baby acting strong for you because they want to protect your feelings and keep you from too much worry.
posted by Annika Cicada at 11:38 AM on November 10, 2016 [13 favorites]
I still can't get over the fact Trump was a candidate who boasted about sexual assault and was elected into office. If, as is apparent, the electorate is okay with that, how in the world do you reach them? What kind of campaigning would have swayed them? It's not about MI or WI or PA. It's about an utter repudiation of the social contract that keeps us women and minorities safe.
I suspect the modern Republican Party wouldn't acknowledge a social contract even exists, let alone bother to repudiate it.
posted by Gelatin at 11:38 AM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
I suspect the modern Republican Party wouldn't acknowledge a social contract even exists, let alone bother to repudiate it.
posted by Gelatin at 11:38 AM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
Shouldn't there be a congressional hearing about the impact of foreign influence on our election and how that affects the legitimacy of that election? Goddamn.
posted by ian1977 at 11:39 AM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by ian1977 at 11:39 AM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
Let me say it AGAIN, in case you missed it the first BAJILLION times it was said:
ELIZABETH WARREN DID NOT AND DOES NOT WANT TO RUN FOR PRESIDENT.
Stop saying she "should have run." Women are DAMNED TIRED of being told what we "should have done."
posted by cooker girl at 11:40 AM on November 10, 2016 [113 favorites]
ELIZABETH WARREN DID NOT AND DOES NOT WANT TO RUN FOR PRESIDENT.
Stop saying she "should have run." Women are DAMNED TIRED of being told what we "should have done."
posted by cooker girl at 11:40 AM on November 10, 2016 [113 favorites]
You can go ahead and substitute Warren for Bernie in my previous comment.
posted by aspersioncast at 11:40 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by aspersioncast at 11:40 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
Shouldn't there be a congressional hearing about the impact of foreign influence on our election and how that affects the legitimacy of that election? Goddamn.
that depends, does it involve allegations about a democrat or a republican?
posted by entropicamericana at 11:40 AM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
that depends, does it involve allegations about a democrat or a republican?
posted by entropicamericana at 11:40 AM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
'What Do I Say?': Stories From the Classroom After Election Day:
The first thing to say is "don't expect to get away with bad behavior just because the President engages in it. You're better than he is and you will be expected to act accordingly."
posted by ocschwar at 11:41 AM on November 10, 2016 [8 favorites]
The first thing to say is "don't expect to get away with bad behavior just because the President engages in it. You're better than he is and you will be expected to act accordingly."
posted by ocschwar at 11:41 AM on November 10, 2016 [8 favorites]
this should have been our first woman president. She would have won in a landslide.
Before about 48 hours ago, all I knew about Elizabeth Warren was her involvement in Occupy. That was it, and that's enough to put a lot of voters off.
So I read the Wiki page about her and read about the Pocahontas stuff and... You get that that's the tip of the "controversy" iceberg? I mean seriously, she's a woman in her late sixties, she presumably sends emails, she wants higher taxes etc.
The idea that they wouldn't go after her is nonsensical.
posted by threetwentytwo at 11:41 AM on November 10, 2016 [10 favorites]
This might be the thing that makes me button I swear to fucking god.
Also, while we're at it, Michelle Obama does not want to run for office nor does she want to be appointed to the Supreme Court.
Women, SHOCKINGLY, have their OWN agendas and their OWN desires for the directions their lives go.
posted by cooker girl at 11:41 AM on November 10, 2016 [69 favorites]
Also, while we're at it, Michelle Obama does not want to run for office nor does she want to be appointed to the Supreme Court.
Women, SHOCKINGLY, have their OWN agendas and their OWN desires for the directions their lives go.
posted by cooker girl at 11:41 AM on November 10, 2016 [69 favorites]
She would have won in a landslide.We're back to putting in fantasy primary candidates who had no interest in running for President? Have we re-litigated Bernie's "inevitable win" according to all those trustworthy polls yet? Here I was thinking that Metafilter would be a relatively safe space to express disappointment and think about how to tackle the future, but apparently this thread is in "Hillary is garbage" mode.
posted by xyzzy at 11:43 AM on November 10, 2016 [37 favorites]
Where is that narrative on display in this thread? I see people saying we should confront bigotry. If they're irredeemable, then why would we bother to confront it?
It's not simply this specific thread, nor MeFi, nor even American liberal discourse on the internet in general. But there definitely seems to be a sort of Othering going on towards these rural traditionalist non-cosmopolitan non-elites. And it's justified in that they contribute towards the oppression of marginalized minorities. But it's unhelpful because their votes matter, too. (And again, if you want to do a reverse-Southern Strategy and go around them by mobilizing different demographics to vote, then commit to that instead.)
It just seems like a lot of times confronting bigotry results in the exasperated, "those people are stupid, those people are hopeless, they're rednecks, they're Nazis" hatred in response to hatred, and shaming tactics, that don't seem to win anyone over, or even to get them to realize what they're doing is wrong. A lot of times, people seem to either to refuse to recognize what they're doing is bigoted, or genuinely not see what's bigoted about it, and in these days they choose to persist in it as a countercultural contrarian sort of way (anti-PC, alt-right).
I'm not saying that there needs to be more time and energy spent talking to these folks. But maybe rethink the strategies, and what narrative is being set?
If it takes more of those resources to bridge the gap to a bigot than it does to get more non-bigots out to the polls next time, why would they prioritize the bigots?
The Rust Belt working class who voted for Obama in past elections but are to be considered bigots because Trump's brash and low-class style appeals to them, for starters, since they live in crucial states that the Democratic candidate needs to win.
posted by Apocryphon at 11:44 AM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
It's not simply this specific thread, nor MeFi, nor even American liberal discourse on the internet in general. But there definitely seems to be a sort of Othering going on towards these rural traditionalist non-cosmopolitan non-elites. And it's justified in that they contribute towards the oppression of marginalized minorities. But it's unhelpful because their votes matter, too. (And again, if you want to do a reverse-Southern Strategy and go around them by mobilizing different demographics to vote, then commit to that instead.)
It just seems like a lot of times confronting bigotry results in the exasperated, "those people are stupid, those people are hopeless, they're rednecks, they're Nazis" hatred in response to hatred, and shaming tactics, that don't seem to win anyone over, or even to get them to realize what they're doing is wrong. A lot of times, people seem to either to refuse to recognize what they're doing is bigoted, or genuinely not see what's bigoted about it, and in these days they choose to persist in it as a countercultural contrarian sort of way (anti-PC, alt-right).
I'm not saying that there needs to be more time and energy spent talking to these folks. But maybe rethink the strategies, and what narrative is being set?
If it takes more of those resources to bridge the gap to a bigot than it does to get more non-bigots out to the polls next time, why would they prioritize the bigots?
The Rust Belt working class who voted for Obama in past elections but are to be considered bigots because Trump's brash and low-class style appeals to them, for starters, since they live in crucial states that the Democratic candidate needs to win.
posted by Apocryphon at 11:44 AM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
Friends, you can take coulda, shoulda and woulda in one hand and a buck in the other and you can maybe get a donut.
The only direction is ahead.
Also, please don't make a good member button trying to explain how you're right.
posted by Mooski at 11:45 AM on November 10, 2016 [16 favorites]
The only direction is ahead.
Also, please don't make a good member button trying to explain how you're right.
posted by Mooski at 11:45 AM on November 10, 2016 [16 favorites]
he said actually - all my alt-right friends are old leftists who got burned by the progressives.
There's a certain truth to that - that sometimes the left-on-left's bloody war sends people screaming. But I see it worst in people who used to feel they belonged to the left and then were driven out - they're looking for something to belong to. The most alt-right people I know and was friends with that are making me actively nauseous are a former anarchist and a former socialist, who got burned badly by the anti war movement. Now they post shit about how women shouldn't be allowed to vote. It's like - I wonder if it's possible to go past compassion fatigue into actual compassion burnout where by caring too much you somehow don't care about people ever again?
Really I'm just looking for answers. They're also white Bernie supporting men, so there's that, too, I guess.
posted by corb at 11:45 AM on November 10, 2016 [8 favorites]
There's a certain truth to that - that sometimes the left-on-left's bloody war sends people screaming. But I see it worst in people who used to feel they belonged to the left and then were driven out - they're looking for something to belong to. The most alt-right people I know and was friends with that are making me actively nauseous are a former anarchist and a former socialist, who got burned badly by the anti war movement. Now they post shit about how women shouldn't be allowed to vote. It's like - I wonder if it's possible to go past compassion fatigue into actual compassion burnout where by caring too much you somehow don't care about people ever again?
Really I'm just looking for answers. They're also white Bernie supporting men, so there's that, too, I guess.
posted by corb at 11:45 AM on November 10, 2016 [8 favorites]
this should have been our first woman president. She would have won in a landslide.
Technically, Eleanor Roosevelt should have been, or Barbara Jordan, but sure.
posted by Apocryphon at 11:46 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
Technically, Eleanor Roosevelt should have been, or Barbara Jordan, but sure.
posted by Apocryphon at 11:46 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
Mod note: Please keep it cool folks.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 11:46 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 11:46 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
xyzzy you echo my sentiments. This shouldawouldacoulda stuff gets us nowhere, just like the blame game. This is the situation now. We have to figure out how to deal with it, not put together a fucking fantasy football team.
posted by aspersioncast at 11:46 AM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by aspersioncast at 11:46 AM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
An event like this in Britain would possibly trigger a hasty snap by-election, right?
The US has a rigid calendar for the federal elections, so that remedy is out of the question.
(And to re-mount my hobby horse) The rigid calendar is the biggest flaw in the Constitution. It was needed to coordinate a federal government using ox carts and row boats. It needs to go.
So random question, given that if we're being honest, the general trend of popular opinion was "fuck this election"... how hard would it be for their to be a grassroots effort for that states to propose a constitutional amendment that added a mandatory confidence vote for presidential elections in addition to the candidates, and called for a redo?
posted by Zalzidrax at 11:46 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
Oh god on Facebook a friend just mentioned "you do realize Trump will decorate the White House." urk
posted by fraula at 11:47 AM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by fraula at 11:47 AM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
Has anyone come across any site that is mapping all of these incidents?
Cause if not I think I might just try and do that. Big huge USA map of sticky pins.
posted by Jalliah at 11:47 AM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
'If I'm the DNC, my take-away if probably going to be "we need to tack more to the center/right next time if we want to win." '
That's the old axis between the parties. We're all scrambling with our hot-takes to figure out the new. There's going to be a realignment, but it can't actually happen with only a fractured Republican party; it has to be both. We saw where the crack was in the GOP this summer. Fault lines among Dems are now becoming visible. (eg maybe those WI, MI, OH Obama 2012 voters who went Trump 2016) New conflicts within the parties will emerge in reaction to actions from the new administration. Many bedfellows will be swapped. Neither party will be recognizable in 8 years - other than maybe the names.
posted by klarck at 11:47 AM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
That's the old axis between the parties. We're all scrambling with our hot-takes to figure out the new. There's going to be a realignment, but it can't actually happen with only a fractured Republican party; it has to be both. We saw where the crack was in the GOP this summer. Fault lines among Dems are now becoming visible. (eg maybe those WI, MI, OH Obama 2012 voters who went Trump 2016) New conflicts within the parties will emerge in reaction to actions from the new administration. Many bedfellows will be swapped. Neither party will be recognizable in 8 years - other than maybe the names.
posted by klarck at 11:47 AM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
I came to the conclusion that every time someone said Clinton was a "flawed" candidate the flaw was that she was a woman.
yes, in the context of her being magnitudes less flawed than Mr. T.
no, in the context that the Democrats did a prolonged and misguided and ultimately piss poor job of choosing their candidate.
And no, I'm not advocating for Bernie here, or any other man or woman. I'm not advocating for anyone -- just bowing to the notion that Hilary seemed to get the nomination handed to her by the party establishment long before the primaries even began ... mainly because it was "her turn" (and in spite of all the pragmatic reasons why she was dicey choice). All of which would be moot if the popular vote had been one or two or three percentage points different in a handful of states, but it wasn't, Hilary lost, here we are.
Duty now for the future.
posted by philip-random at 11:48 AM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
yes, in the context of her being magnitudes less flawed than Mr. T.
no, in the context that the Democrats did a prolonged and misguided and ultimately piss poor job of choosing their candidate.
And no, I'm not advocating for Bernie here, or any other man or woman. I'm not advocating for anyone -- just bowing to the notion that Hilary seemed to get the nomination handed to her by the party establishment long before the primaries even began ... mainly because it was "her turn" (and in spite of all the pragmatic reasons why she was dicey choice). All of which would be moot if the popular vote had been one or two or three percentage points different in a handful of states, but it wasn't, Hilary lost, here we are.
Duty now for the future.
posted by philip-random at 11:48 AM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
It's the EC, voter suppression and gerrymandering that won this election. Nobody wants to deal with that, because it looks impossible to combat, so it's more fun to say "Michelle Obama Woo!" guys, come on. Clinton won the overall vote, but lost thanks to voter suppression. Yes misogyny absolutely, but also, suppression and gerrymandering.
It's a real thing. We have to face it no matter how scary or impossible it is, or just give the fuck up.
(I don't blame people for giving the fuck up at this stage)
We can't win a rigged game. I don't know how to un-rig it, but getting out the vote/waiting for racists to die is clearly not gonna do it.
posted by emjaybee at 11:48 AM on November 10, 2016 [37 favorites]
It's a real thing. We have to face it no matter how scary or impossible it is, or just give the fuck up.
(I don't blame people for giving the fuck up at this stage)
We can't win a rigged game. I don't know how to un-rig it, but getting out the vote/waiting for racists to die is clearly not gonna do it.
posted by emjaybee at 11:48 AM on November 10, 2016 [37 favorites]
I say its time to cheat/play dirty. Trump is invalid as president elect because he is a stooge to a foreign power. Easy peasy lemon squeezy.
posted by ian1977 at 11:51 AM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by ian1977 at 11:51 AM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
who knows... maybe that's already in the works and Obama et al is just playing nice until the December surprise ultimate oppo droppo drops.
posted by ian1977 at 11:52 AM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by ian1977 at 11:52 AM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
So random question, given that if we're being honest, the general trend of popular opinion was "fuck this election"... how hard would it be for their to be a grassroots effort for that states to propose a constitutional amendment that added a mandatory confidence vote for presidential elections in addition to the candidates, and called for a redo?
Constitutional amendments are hard. The last one took 200 years to take effect.
But since you're all concerned about the Supreme Court, it might be time to turn your playbooks to that page and give the Court a different constitution to interpret.
posted by ocschwar at 11:52 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
Constitutional amendments are hard. The last one took 200 years to take effect.
But since you're all concerned about the Supreme Court, it might be time to turn your playbooks to that page and give the Court a different constitution to interpret.
posted by ocschwar at 11:52 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
Warren commits to working with Trump to increase economic security of middle-class families.
So let me be 100% clear about this: When President-Elect Trump wants to take on these issues, when his goal is to increase the economic security of middle-class families, then count me in. I will push aside our differences, and I will work to achieve that goal. I offer to work as hard as I can, and to pull in as many people as I can, into this effort. If Trump is ready to go on rebuilding American economic security for millions of families, then I am ready and so are a lot of other people, Democrats and Republicans. But let me also be clear about what rebuilding our economy does not mean. It does not mean handing the keys to our economy over to Wall Street, so they can run it for themselves. Americans want to hold the big banks accountable, and that will not happen if we gut Dodd-Frank and we fire the cops responsible for watching over those banks, like the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau...posted by Coventry at 11:52 AM on November 10, 2016 [11 favorites]
He also said the election was rigged and he wouldn't respect the results.
You can't win a game you didn't commit to playing.
posted by Zalzidrax at 11:52 AM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
You can't win a game you didn't commit to playing.
posted by Zalzidrax at 11:52 AM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
The dude is a pathological narcissist. One of the symptoms is that he'll say anything to bask in the approval of whomever he's with.
The bad news is, he's surrounded himself with sycophantic racists who want to punish women for having bodies and bring back the mythical 50s that only existed on tv shows.
The silver lining is, he doesn't actually have any policy positions of his own, and he's susceptible to stories of real tragedy. His reaction to the Pulse shooting was, "that's awful! We must stop that!," not the common evangelical reaction of "well, that's pretty bad, but yknow, you live a life of sin..."
He is likely to block oppressive measures brought to him because he's heard a single story of how the measure would be used to hurt people who don't deserve it, if that story is meaningful to him. (Of course, he's also likely to sign such measures after hearing those stories because "My buddy [NAME] has convinced me that that won't happen.")
Our current shred of hope that things won't get as bad as they could, is that the guy they elected is a wildcard who isn't going to cooperate with their fake-50's vision. He's not going to move against it - he likes that vision himself - but he doesn't have any specific ideas on how it could happen. And he's not willing to be known as a rubber-stamp president, so he'll challenge anything he believes is questioning his authority, regardless of who it helps or hurts.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 11:52 AM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
The bad news is, he's surrounded himself with sycophantic racists who want to punish women for having bodies and bring back the mythical 50s that only existed on tv shows.
The silver lining is, he doesn't actually have any policy positions of his own, and he's susceptible to stories of real tragedy. His reaction to the Pulse shooting was, "that's awful! We must stop that!," not the common evangelical reaction of "well, that's pretty bad, but yknow, you live a life of sin..."
He is likely to block oppressive measures brought to him because he's heard a single story of how the measure would be used to hurt people who don't deserve it, if that story is meaningful to him. (Of course, he's also likely to sign such measures after hearing those stories because "My buddy [NAME] has convinced me that that won't happen.")
Our current shred of hope that things won't get as bad as they could, is that the guy they elected is a wildcard who isn't going to cooperate with their fake-50's vision. He's not going to move against it - he likes that vision himself - but he doesn't have any specific ideas on how it could happen. And he's not willing to be known as a rubber-stamp president, so he'll challenge anything he believes is questioning his authority, regardless of who it helps or hurts.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 11:52 AM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
Hillary ran on the most progressive major party platform we've ever seen. She was a fine candidate and she was not relentlessly attacked from the right and left because of her charisma shortcomings. This fantasy replay of the primaries feels really sexist to me.
posted by stopgap at 11:53 AM on November 10, 2016 [60 favorites]
posted by stopgap at 11:53 AM on November 10, 2016 [60 favorites]
Metafilter on Twitter - Mchelly's comment on self-care.
posted by urbanwhaleshark at 11:53 AM on November 10, 2016
posted by urbanwhaleshark at 11:53 AM on November 10, 2016
On Korea reversal:
Was this call after he had his meeting with Obama that he was crowing about being so much longer then it should be? I'd be curious to find out.
I dont think so. The BBC was reporting on it somewhere ~1 am this morning Central time
posted by Golem XIV at 11:55 AM on November 10, 2016
Was this call after he had his meeting with Obama that he was crowing about being so much longer then it should be? I'd be curious to find out.
I dont think so. The BBC was reporting on it somewhere ~1 am this morning Central time
posted by Golem XIV at 11:55 AM on November 10, 2016
the elitists lost - so did the common people; they just don't know it yet
The Economist's examination of the issue, (pre-election) including comments on support from union workers who do not seem to realize Trump is anti-union (this fits in with people not knowing they are voting against their interests, another accusation of the Liberal Elite's condescension towards working class)
The end results by income/class. (The Guardian)
posted by GospelofWesleyWillis at 11:56 AM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
The Economist's examination of the issue, (pre-election) including comments on support from union workers who do not seem to realize Trump is anti-union (this fits in with people not knowing they are voting against their interests, another accusation of the Liberal Elite's condescension towards working class)
The end results by income/class. (The Guardian)
posted by GospelofWesleyWillis at 11:56 AM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
Trumpers were fed a bucket of shit, they will shortly find out, but the damage is already happening with racist incidents and all the civil unrest starting now and yet to come, not to mention all the horrors a couple of months from now when he actually takes office.
The time to protest the Electoral College system was before this election, not after it, but I do hope some good comes from it for future elections... if there are any.
posted by Klaxon Aoooogah at 11:56 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
The time to protest the Electoral College system was before this election, not after it, but I do hope some good comes from it for future elections... if there are any.
posted by Klaxon Aoooogah at 11:56 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm clinging to a little hope that reality TV star and person who craves respect and adulation Donald J. Trump will realize that, now that he's won the election by riding hard on the right wing, his best chance to be remembered as a hugely popular and surprisingly effective president is to pivot crazy hard to the center and be way less racist, destructive, and horrible than we all feared.
That's my sole hope too, especially considering how moderate his victory speech was compared to the rest of his campaign.
Granted, that hope isn't large enough to keep this Jew from getting the fuck out of the country while he still can.
posted by Itaxpica at 11:56 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
That's my sole hope too, especially considering how moderate his victory speech was compared to the rest of his campaign.
Granted, that hope isn't large enough to keep this Jew from getting the fuck out of the country while he still can.
posted by Itaxpica at 11:56 AM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
Hilary seemed to get the nomination handed to her by the party establishment long before the primaries even began ... mainly because it was "her turn"
Forty years of working toward a goal, winning two elections in one of the largest states in the union, serving on the Cabinet, nearly winning one round of primaries, being endorsed by the vast majority of elected Democrats, winning another round of primaries by a larger margin than the guy who beat her last time did, being endorsed by everyone who's ever contested a Democratic primary against her, actually listening to the Democratic electorate and running on the most progressive party platform ever... this is all now boiled down to "mainly because it was 'her turn'".
posted by Etrigan at 11:57 AM on November 10, 2016 [103 favorites]
Forty years of working toward a goal, winning two elections in one of the largest states in the union, serving on the Cabinet, nearly winning one round of primaries, being endorsed by the vast majority of elected Democrats, winning another round of primaries by a larger margin than the guy who beat her last time did, being endorsed by everyone who's ever contested a Democratic primary against her, actually listening to the Democratic electorate and running on the most progressive party platform ever... this is all now boiled down to "mainly because it was 'her turn'".
posted by Etrigan at 11:57 AM on November 10, 2016 [103 favorites]
His reaction to the Pulse shooting was, "that's awful! We must stop that!," not the common evangelical reaction of "well, that's pretty bad, but yknow, you live a life of sin..."
Uh, If I recall, his reaction was literally "I knew this would happen because MUSLIMS."
not quite sympathy for the victims, there
posted by Anonymous at 11:57 AM on November 10, 2016
Uh, If I recall, his reaction was literally "I knew this would happen because MUSLIMS."
not quite sympathy for the victims, there
posted by Anonymous at 11:57 AM on November 10, 2016
Zalzidrax: He also said the election was rigged and he wouldn't respect the results.
Too bad he didn't keep this promise.
posted by clawsoon at 11:58 AM on November 10, 2016 [9 favorites]
Too bad he didn't keep this promise.
posted by clawsoon at 11:58 AM on November 10, 2016 [9 favorites]
not quite sympathy for the victims, there
He did bring up gay rights at the RNC, to his credit.
posted by Apocryphon at 12:00 PM on November 10, 2016
He did bring up gay rights at the RNC, to his credit.
posted by Apocryphon at 12:00 PM on November 10, 2016
If you are not willing to give up a generation to create true democracy in this country you deserve fascism.
Why we make a list of all the groups you're willing to sacrifice for your ideals. Because that's what you're suggesting, right?
Let's start with Women.
Can't forget Muslims.
Or Latinos.
African Americans.
Gays.
Lesbians.
Bisexuals.
Trans folks.
Back in the closet with all of them.
And basically anyone else who isn't a Wealthy, White, Cis-Het Male.
Seems a little fucking privileged, if you ask me.
posted by zarq at 12:00 PM on November 10, 2016 [33 favorites]
Why we make a list of all the groups you're willing to sacrifice for your ideals. Because that's what you're suggesting, right?
Let's start with Women.
Can't forget Muslims.
Or Latinos.
African Americans.
Gays.
Lesbians.
Bisexuals.
Trans folks.
Back in the closet with all of them.
And basically anyone else who isn't a Wealthy, White, Cis-Het Male.
Seems a little fucking privileged, if you ask me.
posted by zarq at 12:00 PM on November 10, 2016 [33 favorites]
otoh, he was cynically pushing the angle of protecting LGBTQ from "foreign ideology." Didn't say anything about domestic, y'see.
posted by Apocryphon at 12:01 PM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by Apocryphon at 12:01 PM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
I don't advocate calling people racists, or racist-supporters, for voting for Trump. I do advocate not spending time with them - not being half-smile friendly at work, not agreeing to go to gatherings where they're present, unfriending them on social media, hanging up when they call. ("Can't talk now; have to go." Not even, "sorry about that.")
What exactly is this supposed to accomplish?
Well, in my case, because racists are also often antisemites, it helps inoculate me against antisemitic violence. Trump ran a misogynistic campaign as well -- I imagine there are many who are threatened by misogynistic violence.
There are a lot of good reasons for not being friends with racists, and, frankly, I'm getting a little tired of people telling me I have to do the work to convince them not to be racist. I have my own work to do against racism, and it doesn't involve me getting threatened on Facebook.
posted by maxsparber at 12:02 PM on November 10, 2016 [11 favorites]
What exactly is this supposed to accomplish?
Well, in my case, because racists are also often antisemites, it helps inoculate me against antisemitic violence. Trump ran a misogynistic campaign as well -- I imagine there are many who are threatened by misogynistic violence.
There are a lot of good reasons for not being friends with racists, and, frankly, I'm getting a little tired of people telling me I have to do the work to convince them not to be racist. I have my own work to do against racism, and it doesn't involve me getting threatened on Facebook.
posted by maxsparber at 12:02 PM on November 10, 2016 [11 favorites]
I don't advocate calling people racists, or racist-supporters, for voting for Trump. I do advocate not spending time with them...
What exactly is this supposed to accomplish?
1) Not spending time with racists. I consider this a worthwhile goal on its own.
2) Make them aware that their beliefs are not "agree to disagree" differences, like "who's the greatest quarterback of all time" or "wearing white at a second wedding," but "not acceptable in my house" beliefs, like saying that it's okay to rape women because they secretly like it.
Those who have families with a Drunk Racist Uncle Jerry have often tried reaching out to him, finding out the "real pain" that underlies his racism, and they have often found that there isn't any - his pain is that life sucks sometimes, and he doesn't have everything he wants, and he thinks he deserves more, so someone must be getting his fair share... and he's decided that "someone" is either whatever people of color he interacts with most or the ones who are on the news most.
For those whose DRUJ is actually mistaken about the nature of human biology, or actually believes that the Muslim faith says that those who murder Christians will be rewarded in heaven, then maybe they can do outreach. But most DRUJ's know, in their hearts, that people are all just people--they just want it to be someone else's fault that they're not rich, famous, handsome, and adored.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 12:02 PM on November 10, 2016 [21 favorites]
What exactly is this supposed to accomplish?
1) Not spending time with racists. I consider this a worthwhile goal on its own.
2) Make them aware that their beliefs are not "agree to disagree" differences, like "who's the greatest quarterback of all time" or "wearing white at a second wedding," but "not acceptable in my house" beliefs, like saying that it's okay to rape women because they secretly like it.
Those who have families with a Drunk Racist Uncle Jerry have often tried reaching out to him, finding out the "real pain" that underlies his racism, and they have often found that there isn't any - his pain is that life sucks sometimes, and he doesn't have everything he wants, and he thinks he deserves more, so someone must be getting his fair share... and he's decided that "someone" is either whatever people of color he interacts with most or the ones who are on the news most.
For those whose DRUJ is actually mistaken about the nature of human biology, or actually believes that the Muslim faith says that those who murder Christians will be rewarded in heaven, then maybe they can do outreach. But most DRUJ's know, in their hearts, that people are all just people--they just want it to be someone else's fault that they're not rich, famous, handsome, and adored.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 12:02 PM on November 10, 2016 [21 favorites]
We all know Clinton would have done better if she were a man. With the exact same record, she would have been fine and probably won. Maybe even beaten Obama in 2008. Sexism is real and I would like people to stop trying to find a "logical" reason why the media and lots of other folks cared more about her emails than about Trump's bottomless swamp of disqualifying factors.
There is nothing she could have done better to run, except be a dude. People don't trust women the way they trust men. Even lots of liberal/not-crazy people.
As a woman I have to accept this fact about my country, and I will, but I don't need anyone finger-wagging about her "likeability" ever again.
posted by emjaybee at 12:02 PM on November 10, 2016 [73 favorites]
There is nothing she could have done better to run, except be a dude. People don't trust women the way they trust men. Even lots of liberal/not-crazy people.
As a woman I have to accept this fact about my country, and I will, but I don't need anyone finger-wagging about her "likeability" ever again.
posted by emjaybee at 12:02 PM on November 10, 2016 [73 favorites]
His first tweet congratulated himself "for being right about radical Islamic terrorism"
His subsequent remarks were similarly fucked up.
posted by Anonymous at 12:04 PM on November 10, 2016
His subsequent remarks were similarly fucked up.
posted by Anonymous at 12:04 PM on November 10, 2016
There is nothing she could have done better to run, except be a dude. People don't trust women the way they trust men. Even lots of liberal/not-crazy people.
She won the popular vote. Literally more than half the country, albeit by a small margin, trusted her. The electoral college system fucked this election.
posted by Klaxon Aoooogah at 12:06 PM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
She won the popular vote. Literally more than half the country, albeit by a small margin, trusted her. The electoral college system fucked this election.
posted by Klaxon Aoooogah at 12:06 PM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
I've started a boycott list on my profile. Feel free to memail me to add (with cite).
posted by Sophie1 at 12:06 PM on November 10, 2016 [13 favorites]
posted by Sophie1 at 12:06 PM on November 10, 2016 [13 favorites]
I'm torn between sincere appreciation for Bernie Sanders as a decent human being who went out of his way to do everything right and is already sticking his neck out to speak truth to power again... and the urge to recoil violently from anything associated with him because I cannot fucking abide another Bernie Bro telling me "It's all Hillary's fault! We shoulda had Bernie instead of that crook!"
posted by DirtyOldTown at 12:06 PM on November 10, 2016 [28 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 12:06 PM on November 10, 2016 [28 favorites]
So I read the Wiki page about her and read about the Pocahontas stuff and... You get that that's the tip of the "controversy" iceberg? I mean seriously, she's a woman in her late sixties, she presumably sends emails, she wants higher taxes etc.
Every time i've ever heard her speak I want to run through a wall for her. Not since Wellstone have I felt that way. She's a once in a lifetime politician; you just don't get people with that combination of eloquence and passion putting themselves out there in the political spectrum. The Democrats should dump that Wall Street hack Schumer and appoint her the minority leader, we need a fighter now, not a suck up.
posted by any major dude at 12:06 PM on November 10, 2016 [18 favorites]
Every time i've ever heard her speak I want to run through a wall for her. Not since Wellstone have I felt that way. She's a once in a lifetime politician; you just don't get people with that combination of eloquence and passion putting themselves out there in the political spectrum. The Democrats should dump that Wall Street hack Schumer and appoint her the minority leader, we need a fighter now, not a suck up.
posted by any major dude at 12:06 PM on November 10, 2016 [18 favorites]
Trump's misogyny and sexism has been so, so scary to watch. Not just the “grab them in the pussy” video, but also things that were apparently unremarkable like "a women's most important quality is her beauty". I really did think that slowly these things were improving and that hope has been totally crushed and replaced with so much fear and sadness.
And the media where I live (not in the US) have not picked up on the misogyny at all. They’ll mention his “grab them in the pussy” video as “vulgar”, but I don’t get the impression that the misogyny is handled with any real concern. Because this is just how the world is, apparently.
People around me don’t understand why I’m so sad about something that happened in another country, but this doesn’t seem like an isolated American event. Not just because Trump will get the nuclear codes (!!!) and doesn’t believe in global warming (?!?!) but also the fact that so many people voted this men into power, and that so many people who didn't vote for him do diminish the extent of how awful this is and tell me I shouldn't be so sensitive. I’m already a bit of a misanthrope but still somewhere thought that that was just my brain being overly negative and now this. I don’t know how I will get over this.
posted by blub at 12:07 PM on November 10, 2016 [11 favorites]
And the media where I live (not in the US) have not picked up on the misogyny at all. They’ll mention his “grab them in the pussy” video as “vulgar”, but I don’t get the impression that the misogyny is handled with any real concern. Because this is just how the world is, apparently.
People around me don’t understand why I’m so sad about something that happened in another country, but this doesn’t seem like an isolated American event. Not just because Trump will get the nuclear codes (!!!) and doesn’t believe in global warming (?!?!) but also the fact that so many people voted this men into power, and that so many people who didn't vote for him do diminish the extent of how awful this is and tell me I shouldn't be so sensitive. I’m already a bit of a misanthrope but still somewhere thought that that was just my brain being overly negative and now this. I don’t know how I will get over this.
posted by blub at 12:07 PM on November 10, 2016 [11 favorites]
Let's start with Women.
Can't forget Muslims.
Or Latinos.
African Americans.
Gays.
Lesbians.
Bisexuals.
Trans folks.
Back in the closet with all of them.
And basically anyone else who isn't a Wealthy, White, Cis-Het Male.
A healthy, wealthy, white cis-het male, please.
We need to include the disabled in those who are at risk.
posted by mochapickle at 12:10 PM on November 10, 2016 [28 favorites]
Can't forget Muslims.
Or Latinos.
African Americans.
Gays.
Lesbians.
Bisexuals.
Trans folks.
Back in the closet with all of them.
And basically anyone else who isn't a Wealthy, White, Cis-Het Male.
A healthy, wealthy, white cis-het male, please.
We need to include the disabled in those who are at risk.
posted by mochapickle at 12:10 PM on November 10, 2016 [28 favorites]
Are you a white guy? Why don't you spend some time with Uncle Jerry, actively listen to his concerns, make him feel closer to you, and then gently press him on the issue so that he'll hopefully take a less extreme stance? If there's any chance that he can leave the conversation with a less extreme viewpoint, isn't that 1) a win and 2) something you, as a white guy, are exceptionally well-positioned to attempt at a minimum of personal cost?
I simply said call him on it, but, sure, that can take whatever form works. If Jerry's an asshole, then compassion isn't going to go too far. If you have had a good relationship generally with him, sure, talk it out, but don't let it just slide. If you think other members of your family might support you, then great, all the better. If you're alone in believing what he says is wrong, then maybe leaving them behind works best. No way to cover every eventuality here other than call it out in some form for not being acceptable, otherwise it continues to be so and you are abetting that.
posted by gusottertrout at 12:10 PM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
I simply said call him on it, but, sure, that can take whatever form works. If Jerry's an asshole, then compassion isn't going to go too far. If you have had a good relationship generally with him, sure, talk it out, but don't let it just slide. If you think other members of your family might support you, then great, all the better. If you're alone in believing what he says is wrong, then maybe leaving them behind works best. No way to cover every eventuality here other than call it out in some form for not being acceptable, otherwise it continues to be so and you are abetting that.
posted by gusottertrout at 12:10 PM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
We need to include the disabled in those who are at risk.
Or those who may be disabled or infirm at some point in the future...which is virtually all of us really.
posted by ian1977 at 12:13 PM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
Bernie Bro telling me "It's all Hillary's fault! We shoulda had Bernie instead of that crook!"
Instead of the Democratic leadership recoiling and demonizing Bernie for his appeal to the "Bernie Bros" they should have been taking it as a harbinger. This election was determined by angry white men.
posted by any major dude at 12:14 PM on November 10, 2016 [8 favorites]
Instead of the Democratic leadership recoiling and demonizing Bernie for his appeal to the "Bernie Bros" they should have been taking it as a harbinger. This election was determined by angry white men.
posted by any major dude at 12:14 PM on November 10, 2016 [8 favorites]
Those who have families with a Drunk Racist Uncle Jerry have often tried reaching out to him, finding out the "real pain" that underlies his racism, and they have often found that there isn't any - his pain is that life sucks sometimes, and he doesn't have everything he wants, and he thinks he deserves more, so someone must be getting his fair share... and he's decided that "someone" is either whatever people of color he interacts with most or the ones who are on the news most
My mum is like that. She grew up in Communist-occupied Poland, and seems to have reinvented the ideology of Ayn Rand from first principles; anything to the left of about Rupert Murdoch is only quantitatively different from Bolshevik tyranny and thus evil and to be waged war against until it is annihilated. She lives in Australia, so she has fallen in with the local far right demagogues; she has been posting to Facebook praising Andrew Bolt and, more recently, Milo Yiannopoulos, and denouncing the Greens as actual Communists.
The bitter irony is that the tyrannical socialist regime she is quite right to loathe was as much an expression of the Russian Byzantine autocratic culture of power as of Marxism, and more so than of the post-Enlightenment Left, and now the same Russian autocratic culture has reemerged in Trump via Putin. This is lost on her, as she regards subtle arguments as leftist disingenuity.
I am now filtering most of my Facebook posts to a group she can't see. I am dreading the next time I will be in Melbourne, as there will be strong pressure for me (who doesn't own a car in Australia) to stay with her (a few hours out of Melbourne). I will probably say no, but the backlash will be vicious.
(I'm half thinking that I should perhaps go for the nuclear option and just post that selfie of me handing out Greens how-to-vote cards at Australia House to Facebook and be done with it; it's not like I need to inherit half of her house when she eventually passes away...)
posted by acb at 12:14 PM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
My mum is like that. She grew up in Communist-occupied Poland, and seems to have reinvented the ideology of Ayn Rand from first principles; anything to the left of about Rupert Murdoch is only quantitatively different from Bolshevik tyranny and thus evil and to be waged war against until it is annihilated. She lives in Australia, so she has fallen in with the local far right demagogues; she has been posting to Facebook praising Andrew Bolt and, more recently, Milo Yiannopoulos, and denouncing the Greens as actual Communists.
The bitter irony is that the tyrannical socialist regime she is quite right to loathe was as much an expression of the Russian Byzantine autocratic culture of power as of Marxism, and more so than of the post-Enlightenment Left, and now the same Russian autocratic culture has reemerged in Trump via Putin. This is lost on her, as she regards subtle arguments as leftist disingenuity.
I am now filtering most of my Facebook posts to a group she can't see. I am dreading the next time I will be in Melbourne, as there will be strong pressure for me (who doesn't own a car in Australia) to stay with her (a few hours out of Melbourne). I will probably say no, but the backlash will be vicious.
(I'm half thinking that I should perhaps go for the nuclear option and just post that selfie of me handing out Greens how-to-vote cards at Australia House to Facebook and be done with it; it's not like I need to inherit half of her house when she eventually passes away...)
posted by acb at 12:14 PM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
What makes him so scary is that I don't think he's ever lying. Or at least he doesn't believe he is. He says whatever comes into his head at the time without even thinking about it. He can't lie, because he doesn't really believe anything. He just says stuff, and keeps saying stuff and more stuff and more stuff, without considering content or implications.
posted by Gelatin at 12:14 PM on November 10, 2016 [18 favorites]
It is impossible for someone to lie unless he thinks he knows the truth. Producing bullshit requires no such conviction. A person who lies is thereby responding to the truth, and he is to that extent respectful of it. When an honest man speaks, he says only what he believes to be true; and for the liar, it is correspondingly indispensable that he considers his statements to be false. For the bullshitter, however, all these bets are off: he is neither on the side of the true nor on the side of the false. His eye is not on the facts at all, as the eyes of the honest man and of the liar are, except insofar as they may be pertinent to his interest in getting away with what he says. He does not care whether the things he says describe reality correctly. He just picks them out, or makes them up, to suit his purpose.Harry Frankfurt, "On Bullshit" (PDF)
posted by Gelatin at 12:14 PM on November 10, 2016 [18 favorites]
Question: Been seeing posts about the electoral college and a movement to get electors to not vote for Donald. I know it won't happen.
What would happen if it did though? Has that ever happened?
posted by Jalliah at 12:14 PM on November 10, 2016
There was an opportunity this year to bury the Republicans and Democrats for good. Bernie and Bloomberg could have ran their own independent campaigns and Trump/Cinton would have been relegated to 3rd and 4th choices. Both were cowed by the Democratic party and the Clintons. These two parties are done, neither represents the true will of the people anymore. Democrats are beholden to big finance, Republicans big business. Trump won because he bashed the Republican party. Fuck all of you who demonized Ralph Nader in the years 2000, it's kept every viable 3rd choice away from running since. If you are not willing to give up a generation to create true democracy in this country you deserve fascism.
Please note that when people tell you that you are not even wrong, that is not a fancy and clever way of declaring that you are right.
posted by delfin at 12:14 PM on November 10, 2016 [10 favorites]
Please note that when people tell you that you are not even wrong, that is not a fancy and clever way of declaring that you are right.
posted by delfin at 12:14 PM on November 10, 2016 [10 favorites]
being endorsed by everyone who's ever contested a Democratic primary against her, actually listening to the Democratic electorate and running on the most progressive party platform ever... this is all now boiled down to "mainly because it was 'her turn'".
to be clear -- I never for a moment hoped for anyone other than Hilary once primary season was underway (indeed, much as I agree with almost everything I've ever heard from Bernie Sanders, his arrival on the scene as a genuine player sent an instant chill through me -- this was the party dividing). When I'm questioning Hilary's candidacy, I'm questioning what happened before 2016.
posted by philip-random at 12:15 PM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
to be clear -- I never for a moment hoped for anyone other than Hilary once primary season was underway (indeed, much as I agree with almost everything I've ever heard from Bernie Sanders, his arrival on the scene as a genuine player sent an instant chill through me -- this was the party dividing). When I'm questioning Hilary's candidacy, I'm questioning what happened before 2016.
posted by philip-random at 12:15 PM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
What exactly is this supposed to accomplish?
1) Not spending time with racists. I consider this a worthwhile goal on its own.
2) Make them aware that their beliefs are not "agree to disagree" differences, like "who's the greatest quarterback of all time" or "wearing white at a second wedding," but "not acceptable in my house" beliefs, like saying that it's okay to rape women because they secretly like it.
Shunning is a powerful social tool, as long as others in the social circle know who is being shunned and why.
posted by tobascodagama at 12:15 PM on November 10, 2016 [8 favorites]
1) Not spending time with racists. I consider this a worthwhile goal on its own.
2) Make them aware that their beliefs are not "agree to disagree" differences, like "who's the greatest quarterback of all time" or "wearing white at a second wedding," but "not acceptable in my house" beliefs, like saying that it's okay to rape women because they secretly like it.
Shunning is a powerful social tool, as long as others in the social circle know who is being shunned and why.
posted by tobascodagama at 12:15 PM on November 10, 2016 [8 favorites]
Trump's own words when he wrongly thought Romney had won the popular vote in 2012.
posted by blub at 12:16 PM on November 10, 2016 [16 favorites]
posted by blub at 12:16 PM on November 10, 2016 [16 favorites]
Those who have families with a Drunk Racist Uncle Jerry have often tried reaching out to him, finding out the "real pain" that underlies his racism, and they have often found that there isn't any - his pain is that life sucks sometimes, and he doesn't have everything he wants, and he thinks he deserves more, so someone must be getting his fair share... and he's decided that "someone" is either whatever people of color he interacts with most or the ones who are on the news most.I've persuaded relatives that their views are racist, harmful, and ignore the privilege they enjoy. It takes hours of calmly pointing how the issues they raise look from the perspective of the targets of their racism, in one-to-one conversations so they don't feel publically attacked. Maybe they just get sick of my behavior and stop talking about it around me, and of course every family and every relationship is different, but from my perspective it seems effective.
posted by Coventry at 12:17 PM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
This election was determined by angry white men.
and yet Trump got more than fifty percent of the white woman vote.
posted by philip-random at 12:17 PM on November 10, 2016 [19 favorites]
and yet Trump got more than fifty percent of the white woman vote.
posted by philip-random at 12:17 PM on November 10, 2016 [19 favorites]
ELIZABETH WARREN DID NOT AND DOES NOT WANT TO RUN FOR PRESIDENT.
She's also going to be waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more effective right where she is, in the Senate, where she can be a vote against damaging issues and maybe be the sole vote that keeps things from being a two-thirds majority.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:18 PM on November 10, 2016 [33 favorites]
She's also going to be waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more effective right where she is, in the Senate, where she can be a vote against damaging issues and maybe be the sole vote that keeps things from being a two-thirds majority.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:18 PM on November 10, 2016 [33 favorites]
I shouldn't have said white evangelicals in my comment above - because in fact one of the more surprising polling errors was that 5-7% of black people voted for Trump, when that number was closer to 0 in nearly all the crosstabs I remember seeing throughout the race.
Hindsight 20/20 and all that, but perhaps this should have been a sign that something was wrong with the polling. It's never 0% and never 100% for a major party candidate, among any demographic group.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 12:18 PM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
Hindsight 20/20 and all that, but perhaps this should have been a sign that something was wrong with the polling. It's never 0% and never 100% for a major party candidate, among any demographic group.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 12:18 PM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
Well now I'm back to anger and considering going to Thanksgiving and asking my Trump-voting uncle "So, how many women have you grabbed by the pussy?" I mean, the President can say it, he voted for him, why can't I say it too? Heck I can also say "bomb the shit out of them" at the table now, right?
Don't know if I have the intestinal fortitude for it. I would almost certainly be asked to leave immediately.
But it made me giggle to think about.
posted by emjaybee at 12:19 PM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
Don't know if I have the intestinal fortitude for it. I would almost certainly be asked to leave immediately.
But it made me giggle to think about.
posted by emjaybee at 12:19 PM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
Look a Democratic Party that makes appealing to whites its main platform is going to go racist. That was the point of the Southern Strategy.
"Appease the white men" is a real goal here? Day 2, folks.
posted by zutalors! at 12:19 PM on November 10, 2016 [28 favorites]
"Appease the white men" is a real goal here? Day 2, folks.
posted by zutalors! at 12:19 PM on November 10, 2016 [28 favorites]
Question: Been seeing posts about the electoral college and a movement to get electors to not vote for Donald. I know it won't happen.
What would happen if it did though? Has that ever happened?
The Electoral College has never not elected someone with a majority of electors, no. There have been hijinks in the House when there was no EC majority (so the person with a plurality but not a majority of electoral votes didn't win), and electors have changed their votes (John Hospers, the first Libertarian presidential candidate, got one electoral vote in 1972 that should have gone to Nixon).
But the EC has never switched the result of an election.
posted by Etrigan at 12:19 PM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
What would happen if it did though? Has that ever happened?
The Electoral College has never not elected someone with a majority of electors, no. There have been hijinks in the House when there was no EC majority (so the person with a plurality but not a majority of electoral votes didn't win), and electors have changed their votes (John Hospers, the first Libertarian presidential candidate, got one electoral vote in 1972 that should have gone to Nixon).
But the EC has never switched the result of an election.
posted by Etrigan at 12:19 PM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
> 1) Not spending time with racists. I consider this a worthwhile goal on its own.
It's a bit of a luxury, though, innit? It reminds me a lot of that game Hot Potato.
To you it's a luxury. To others, it may be self-preservation because they have no more emotional labor left to give.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:19 PM on November 10, 2016 [9 favorites]
It's a bit of a luxury, though, innit? It reminds me a lot of that game Hot Potato.
To you it's a luxury. To others, it may be self-preservation because they have no more emotional labor left to give.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:19 PM on November 10, 2016 [9 favorites]
What would happen if it did though? Has that ever happened?
Often enough that there is a term of art for it: Faithless elector.
posted by maxsparber at 12:21 PM on November 10, 2016
Often enough that there is a term of art for it: Faithless elector.
posted by maxsparber at 12:21 PM on November 10, 2016
I would rather see them infiltrate the Democratic party in large numbers, put their people on Dem tickets at every level of government, take over party nominating committees and executive positions, and pretty much rewire and redefine the DNC from the inside.
The appointment of Ellison to chairmanship of the DNC is one way to start the transformation of the Democratic Party.
This.
The one political email list I didn't unsubscribe from after the first contact (and actually gave a few of my meager bucks to) was boldprogressives.org, a group that supported some Democratic candidates that won among all the losses.
To quote their post-election email, (editing out the inevitable "so please send more money"):
posted by oneswellfoop at 12:22 PM on November 10, 2016 [16 favorites]
The appointment of Ellison to chairmanship of the DNC is one way to start the transformation of the Democratic Party.
This.
The one political email list I didn't unsubscribe from after the first contact (and actually gave a few of my meager bucks to) was boldprogressives.org, a group that supported some Democratic candidates that won among all the losses.
To quote their post-election email, (editing out the inevitable "so please send more money"):
This is a stunning, scary, sad time for America.It looks like the elected Democrats (who are left) are more Progressive and less White Male on balance, which is a promising sign for the party's future.
In January, we will live in a world where Donald Trump is President, and right-wing majorities control both the Senate and the House. It hurts to think about it.
In the coming days, many people will be scrambling to respond (and deciding whether or not to move to Canada.) There are a lot of unknowns. But here are some truths we know now.
First, the Democratic Party must go through a reckoning. Donald Trump won the Rust Belt by stoking the economic and social anxiety that so many people feel in their lives. People are fed up with bad wages, too much debt, and child care costs through the roof. They are tired of watching their jobs disappear because of bad trade deals. They know that something is wrong when a corporation can break laws and destroy livelihoods and get away with it.
And Donald Trump spoke to that. Some of his TV ads could have been run by Bernie Sanders -- bashing the "political establishment" that "brought about the destruction of our factories and jobs."
Democrats must follow the lead of Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders, going beyond issue positions and offering a systemic critique of the rigged economy. Democrats must start fighting for working families with an authentic understanding of how we got here -- and a willingness to take on Wall Street and corporate donors to get us out.
It's time for new leadership of the Democratic Party -- younger, more diverse, and more ideological -- that is hungry to do things differently, like leading a movement instead of dragging people to the polls. Democrats will lose, over and over, until they have a willingness to take on corporate power in a very real and authentic way.
Second, we have to resist. We have to fight Donald Trump's anti-worker, anti-immigrant, racist, sexist agenda every step of the way. We love our country too much. We can't undo the progress that we've made. We've come too far and fought too long for what we have.
Third, some good news. I know it's hard to see in these dark times, but there is some light.
We built long-term power by electing some bold progressives. Jamie Raskin (MD-08), Pramila Jayapal (WA-07), and Nanette Diaz Barragán (CA-40) are all great organizers that we need in Congress now more than ever. We also helped Carol Shea-Porter (NH-01) and Ruben Kihuen (NV-04) defeat incumbent Republicans! And we helped elect three new senators, Tammy Duckworth (IL), Maggie Hassan (NH) and Catherine Cortez Masto (NV).
In the coming days, weeks and months, we'll be launching a major new progressive messaging program (more soon!) and expanding our program to build power from the ground up -- one school board race at a time.
And so we fight back.
posted by oneswellfoop at 12:22 PM on November 10, 2016 [16 favorites]
otoh, he was cynically pushing the angle of protecting LGBTQ from "foreign ideology." Didn't say anything about domestic, y'see.
This is a big alt-right idea- that because they only want to jail and break up and discriminate against QUILTBAG people, rather than murdering them like (they assume) all Muslims want to, the only real pro-QUILTBAG people are the white racists who want to murder every Muslim.
They're generally really upset and baffled that nobody agrees.
posted by Pope Guilty at 12:24 PM on November 10, 2016 [9 favorites]
This is a big alt-right idea- that because they only want to jail and break up and discriminate against QUILTBAG people, rather than murdering them like (they assume) all Muslims want to, the only real pro-QUILTBAG people are the white racists who want to murder every Muslim.
They're generally really upset and baffled that nobody agrees.
posted by Pope Guilty at 12:24 PM on November 10, 2016 [9 favorites]
What would happen if it did though? Has that ever happened?
It's perfectly legal, but I think the EC flipping the election to Clinton would cause something akin to a civil war. Maybe for the better, who knows. There's a petition going around to make this happen. I'm mulling over signing it, and my wife wants to, but I genuinely believe it would put our lives in danger once it most likely fails. Maybe that's hysterical, I dunno (feeling kind of hysterical!).
posted by dis_integration at 12:24 PM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
It's perfectly legal, but I think the EC flipping the election to Clinton would cause something akin to a civil war. Maybe for the better, who knows. There's a petition going around to make this happen. I'm mulling over signing it, and my wife wants to, but I genuinely believe it would put our lives in danger once it most likely fails. Maybe that's hysterical, I dunno (feeling kind of hysterical!).
posted by dis_integration at 12:24 PM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
Well, not perfectly legal. There would be some fines for the faithless electors. But it's constitutional.
posted by dis_integration at 12:24 PM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by dis_integration at 12:24 PM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
>> If it takes more of those resources to bridge the gap to a bigot than it does to get more non-bigots out to the polls next time, why would they prioritize the bigots?
> The Rust Belt working class who voted for Obama in past elections but are to be considered bigots because Trump's brash and low-class style appeals to them, for starters, since they live in crucial states that the Democratic candidate needs to win.
On what basis do you claim that they "need to win" the Rust Belt states?
WI, MI, and OH are not the only states Hillary lost by a close margin with (a) double-digit EVs and (b) a history of voting with Democrats under the Obama coalition. FL, and NC fit this description as well. Together, WI, MI, and OH are 44 EVs. Together, NC and FL are... 44 EVs. Every bit of voter outreach in those states is as valuable as the same amount of outreach in the midwest, except the message is more consistent with progressive goals, and not in opposition to it when it comes to taxation, income support, and the safety net in general, which the white midwestern voters say they don't want as they're cashing the checks.
The elephant in the room is my own beloved home state, the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. 20 EVs, sort of rust belt, but mostly not. The thing is, and I believe a Trump presidency will illuminate this for the Trumpists here, the rust belt jobs are not coming back. No amount of reversal of NAFTA and the TPP is going to improve the lives of people in Alliquippa, Titusville, or Connellsville. PA was very gettable this year, and it will be even more gettable after these people recognize they bought a bill of goods from a two-but huckster.
I've asked this question several times and still don't have an answer. Why is it an article of faith among so many that the Rust Belt voters are the only path to electoral success?
posted by tonycpsu at 12:25 PM on November 10, 2016 [11 favorites]
> The Rust Belt working class who voted for Obama in past elections but are to be considered bigots because Trump's brash and low-class style appeals to them, for starters, since they live in crucial states that the Democratic candidate needs to win.
On what basis do you claim that they "need to win" the Rust Belt states?
WI, MI, and OH are not the only states Hillary lost by a close margin with (a) double-digit EVs and (b) a history of voting with Democrats under the Obama coalition. FL, and NC fit this description as well. Together, WI, MI, and OH are 44 EVs. Together, NC and FL are... 44 EVs. Every bit of voter outreach in those states is as valuable as the same amount of outreach in the midwest, except the message is more consistent with progressive goals, and not in opposition to it when it comes to taxation, income support, and the safety net in general, which the white midwestern voters say they don't want as they're cashing the checks.
The elephant in the room is my own beloved home state, the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. 20 EVs, sort of rust belt, but mostly not. The thing is, and I believe a Trump presidency will illuminate this for the Trumpists here, the rust belt jobs are not coming back. No amount of reversal of NAFTA and the TPP is going to improve the lives of people in Alliquippa, Titusville, or Connellsville. PA was very gettable this year, and it will be even more gettable after these people recognize they bought a bill of goods from a two-but huckster.
I've asked this question several times and still don't have an answer. Why is it an article of faith among so many that the Rust Belt voters are the only path to electoral success?
posted by tonycpsu at 12:25 PM on November 10, 2016 [11 favorites]
It wasn't an election. It was simply a referendum on dark skin. Shameful.
posted by davebush at 12:26 PM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by davebush at 12:26 PM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
It's perfectly legal, but I think the EC flipping the election to Clinton would cause something akin to a civil war. Maybe for the better, who knows. There's a petition going around to make this happen. I'm mulling over signing it, and my wife wants to, but I genuinely believe it would put our lives in danger once it most likely fails. Maybe that's hysterical, I dunno (feeling kind of hysterical!).
posted by dis_integ
I think our lives are at risk any way we spin it at this point. Pick your poison.
posted by ian1977 at 12:27 PM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by dis_integ
I think our lives are at risk any way we spin it at this point. Pick your poison.
posted by ian1977 at 12:27 PM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
@CarlBeijer posted a chilling excerpt from a disturbingly prescient lecture from 2010.
Climate change, refugees, and the disturbing truth about the feasibility of a wall.
posted by [expletive deleted] at 12:28 PM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
Climate change, refugees, and the disturbing truth about the feasibility of a wall.
posted by [expletive deleted] at 12:28 PM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
What would happen if it did though? Has that ever happened?
The delegates to the EC are at best Republican Party lifetime activists and at worst Trump Toadies. I could maybe see a few secret #nevertrump delegates sneaking in, and if the vote was like 272-266 maybe 3 of them would switch to throw it to the house so we could have President Ryan. But no way in hell 30 of them decide to vote for Clinton.
posted by Glibpaxman at 12:29 PM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
The delegates to the EC are at best Republican Party lifetime activists and at worst Trump Toadies. I could maybe see a few secret #nevertrump delegates sneaking in, and if the vote was like 272-266 maybe 3 of them would switch to throw it to the house so we could have President Ryan. But no way in hell 30 of them decide to vote for Clinton.
posted by Glibpaxman at 12:29 PM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
It's perfectly legal, but I think the EC flipping the election to Clinton would cause something akin to a civil war.
Disclaimer: I know it's not gonna happen.
One of the interesting things I hear from many of my Florida co-residents is that they buy guns because militia; they must be ready to take arms against blah blah blah, etc.
They never seem to have an answer to what their AK-47 is going to do to a drone, or a tank, or even a halfway decently trained National Guard unit.
No, there would be no civil war; I honestly don't believe one is possible in the way it was in 1861.
Now ask me if I think any of my Florida brethren would take their AK-47s to a gay bar.
posted by Mooski at 12:31 PM on November 10, 2016 [8 favorites]
Disclaimer: I know it's not gonna happen.
One of the interesting things I hear from many of my Florida co-residents is that they buy guns because militia; they must be ready to take arms against blah blah blah, etc.
They never seem to have an answer to what their AK-47 is going to do to a drone, or a tank, or even a halfway decently trained National Guard unit.
No, there would be no civil war; I honestly don't believe one is possible in the way it was in 1861.
Now ask me if I think any of my Florida brethren would take their AK-47s to a gay bar.
posted by Mooski at 12:31 PM on November 10, 2016 [8 favorites]
Not only would flipping the EC amount to a coup, I simply can't see Hillary Clinton agreeing to become the president that way.
posted by theodolite at 12:32 PM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by theodolite at 12:32 PM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
Australian poet Daniel Viles read aloud this poem on Australian public radio. It's constructed entirely of Trump quotes as rhyming couplets. I would type it out here but it'd be a wall of Trumpisms on the blue and no-one wants that. Poem starts at 1:45.
posted by adept256 at 12:33 PM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by adept256 at 12:33 PM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
@CarlBeijer posted a chilling excerpt from a disturbingly prescient lecture from 2010.
Climate change, refugees, and the disturbing truth about the feasibility of a wall.
He seems to think that difference between a 100-mile wall in a densely populated area and a 2000-mile wall, much of which goes through desert, is a handwaveable matter of irrelevant technical details.
I rather hope the 2017 administration kicks off with a huge project to build a wall; it would nicely distract them from the other horrific things that were promised in the campaign.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 12:33 PM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
Climate change, refugees, and the disturbing truth about the feasibility of a wall.
He seems to think that difference between a 100-mile wall in a densely populated area and a 2000-mile wall, much of which goes through desert, is a handwaveable matter of irrelevant technical details.
I rather hope the 2017 administration kicks off with a huge project to build a wall; it would nicely distract them from the other horrific things that were promised in the campaign.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 12:33 PM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
Can't speak for anyone else but I for one would be happy (honored even) to contribute to a fund to cover the fines for any electors who could be convinced to honor the popular vote instead of supporting Trump.
I agree that faithless electors changing the result of the election would likely lead to half the country tearing itself apart, but at this point it's a question of whether we want the country to tear itself apart quickly now or slowly over the course of the next few years.
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 12:33 PM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
I agree that faithless electors changing the result of the election would likely lead to half the country tearing itself apart, but at this point it's a question of whether we want the country to tear itself apart quickly now or slowly over the course of the next few years.
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 12:33 PM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
Yeah, the Dems totally should have run Beyonce instead of Clinton, everybody loves her, right? Or what about the guy from Hamilton? Totally would have won.
posted by bongo_x at 12:34 PM on November 10, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by bongo_x at 12:34 PM on November 10, 2016 [7 favorites]
Would Sanders Have Beaten Trump? Maybe Colorado Has The Answer
I always assumed that Republicans would just go after Sanders as a really big spender who believes in really big government, and wants to tax Joe and Jane Six-Pack to pay for that. I think his proposals would have been portrayed as unworkable and budget-busting.posted by tonycpsu at 12:35 PM on November 10, 2016 [27 favorites]
Would that have damaged him enough for Trump to win? I don't know -- but please note that a referendum in Colorado calling for single-payer health care just lost 80%-20%. Colorado is a state Clinton won, so some liberals as well as conservatives presumably voted no on single payer. [...]
That would have been the problem with Bernie's proposals in a general election campaign: The costs would have been measured, even some estimates made in good faith would have been worrying, Republicans and vested interests would have pounced on those cost estimates, and he'd have been on the defensive. I'm not saying all that would have doomed him. I just don't know. But his high approval ratings would have taken a hit.
So we can't look at the positive Sanders numbers in the spring and use that to assess how he'd have done in the fall. We'll just never know.
No, there would be no civil war; I honestly don't believe one is possible in the way it was in 1861.
Asymmetric warfare is the new hotness. It's very difficult to defeat guerrilla armies embedded seamlessly with a civilian populations. It's not a question of firepower, and guerrilla movements tend to be accepting of higher rates of casualties than a standing army would be. And aggressive tactics turn the people against the flag-bearing military. Civil wars could happen. Incidentally if one broke out it's plausible that Russia would help arm the insurgents with some heftier badness. Don't think it can't happen here. It can happen here. I'm all out of illusions about what can and can't happen here now.
posted by dis_integration at 12:36 PM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
Asymmetric warfare is the new hotness. It's very difficult to defeat guerrilla armies embedded seamlessly with a civilian populations. It's not a question of firepower, and guerrilla movements tend to be accepting of higher rates of casualties than a standing army would be. And aggressive tactics turn the people against the flag-bearing military. Civil wars could happen. Incidentally if one broke out it's plausible that Russia would help arm the insurgents with some heftier badness. Don't think it can't happen here. It can happen here. I'm all out of illusions about what can and can't happen here now.
posted by dis_integration at 12:36 PM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
One of the interesting things I hear from many of my Florida co-residents is that they buy guns because militia; they must be ready to take arms against blah blah blah, etc.
They never seem to have an answer to what their AK-47 is going to do to a drone, or a tank, or even a halfway decently trained National Guard unit.
The 21st Century has shown us that a sufficiently motivated group of people with small arms and easily manufactured explosives can at least engage in a long standoff with the most powerful military in the history of the world, if the military and the polity behind it don't have the same level of motivation.
posted by Etrigan at 12:36 PM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
They never seem to have an answer to what their AK-47 is going to do to a drone, or a tank, or even a halfway decently trained National Guard unit.
The 21st Century has shown us that a sufficiently motivated group of people with small arms and easily manufactured explosives can at least engage in a long standoff with the most powerful military in the history of the world, if the military and the polity behind it don't have the same level of motivation.
posted by Etrigan at 12:36 PM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
I rather hope the 2017 administration kicks off with a huge project to build a wall
...and don't you just know that the tunnels under it would be made by some of the same contractors who built it?
o god would I cackle my narrow ass off
posted by Mooski at 12:36 PM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
...and don't you just know that the tunnels under it would be made by some of the same contractors who built it?
o god would I cackle my narrow ass off
posted by Mooski at 12:36 PM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
I think it's pretty telling that the responses to my comment focused on this part:
Put together a platform that addresses the real, material circumstances of a wide swath of the electorate, and make that plan the centerpiece of your run.
While ignoring this part:
Pick a candidate that gets the base fired up
You have to have both. We were told after the primary that the second part didn't matter, or because $REASONS it didn't matter because misogynists wouldn't vote HRC, etc. But I think those turnout numbers tell the story: the base was not excited. Yes, suppression mattered, but good luck getting the VRA re-established in the new climate. That won't happen. So get better candidates.
posted by turntraitor at 12:37 PM on November 10, 2016 [7 favorites]
Put together a platform that addresses the real, material circumstances of a wide swath of the electorate, and make that plan the centerpiece of your run.
While ignoring this part:
Pick a candidate that gets the base fired up
You have to have both. We were told after the primary that the second part didn't matter, or because $REASONS it didn't matter because misogynists wouldn't vote HRC, etc. But I think those turnout numbers tell the story: the base was not excited. Yes, suppression mattered, but good luck getting the VRA re-established in the new climate. That won't happen. So get better candidates.
posted by turntraitor at 12:37 PM on November 10, 2016 [7 favorites]
I just initiated a conversation with my mother about the bigoted comments one of my family members has made. I didn't choose the best time to initiate this, and I don't know if said comments actually reflect said family member's beliefs or are intended to troll. Granted, I know that when someone makes a racist statement, it's racist no matter the intention, but I'm worried my mom is going to see me as being a drama queen or some other bullshit because I brought up this problem at all.
I feel like I just outsourced a ton of emotional labor to someone who already has a lot on her plate.
posted by pxe2000 at 12:37 PM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
I feel like I just outsourced a ton of emotional labor to someone who already has a lot on her plate.
posted by pxe2000 at 12:37 PM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
please note that a referendum in Colorado calling for single-payer health care just lost 80%-20%. Colorado is a state Clinton won, so some liberals as well as conservatives presumably voted no on single payer.It was irresponsible to put such a measure up without providing the budget for it. Sanders was not making that mistake. He had a very clear revenue plan.
posted by Coventry at 12:38 PM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
Would that have damaged him enough for Trump to win? I don't know -- but please note that a referendum in Colorado calling for single-payer health care just lost 80%-20%. Colorado is a state Clinton won, so some liberals as well as conservatives presumably voted no on single payer. [...]
Look, I'm a progressive voter and all for single-payer health care but the Colorado single-payer health care referendum was a mess as written. It just wasn't comprehensive and clear, and there were a lot of questions unanswered as to the administration of it. Even my super-progressive newspaper couldn't endorse it.
The Colorado health care vote has zero to do with Bernie.
posted by mochapickle at 12:39 PM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
Look, I'm a progressive voter and all for single-payer health care but the Colorado single-payer health care referendum was a mess as written. It just wasn't comprehensive and clear, and there were a lot of questions unanswered as to the administration of it. Even my super-progressive newspaper couldn't endorse it.
The Colorado health care vote has zero to do with Bernie.
posted by mochapickle at 12:39 PM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
Colorado single-payer was opposed by many liberals because it excluded abortion coverage. I'm sure that was part of the problem.
posted by emjaybee at 12:40 PM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 12:40 PM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
It was irresponsible to put such a measure up without providing the budget for it. Sanders was not making that mistake. He had a very clear revenue plan.
If you think that defense would have worked to reassure voters, do a Google News search for "Congressional Budget Office" between 2008 and 2010. The "tax and spend" liberal image is still very much in the minds of these Reagan Democrat voters that we're supposed to be reaching -- they hear claims of an exploding deficit and the fact-checking part of the brain shuts down.
posted by tonycpsu at 12:40 PM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
If you think that defense would have worked to reassure voters, do a Google News search for "Congressional Budget Office" between 2008 and 2010. The "tax and spend" liberal image is still very much in the minds of these Reagan Democrat voters that we're supposed to be reaching -- they hear claims of an exploding deficit and the fact-checking part of the brain shuts down.
posted by tonycpsu at 12:40 PM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
He seems to think that difference between a 100-mile wall in a densely populated area and a 2000-mile wall, much of which goes through desert, is a handwaveable matter of irrelevant technical details.
Remember this was way before simple, literal-minded Donny got into this. He wasn't talking about the Berlin Wall. He said Iron Curtain. The wall isn't physically there, the wall is drones and men in vehicles with guns. Closing the border is feasible. You just have to kill enough people who try.
posted by [expletive deleted] at 12:43 PM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
Remember this was way before simple, literal-minded Donny got into this. He wasn't talking about the Berlin Wall. He said Iron Curtain. The wall isn't physically there, the wall is drones and men in vehicles with guns. Closing the border is feasible. You just have to kill enough people who try.
posted by [expletive deleted] at 12:43 PM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
Does anyone have a line on a nice rear bumper for a green 1995 Subaru wagon that doesn't have a Bernie Sanders for President sticker on it? I spent like twenty minutes trying to get it off, and all I have is a scratched bumper, beaten up fingernails, and I still feel like shit.
posted by Sphinx at 12:45 PM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Sphinx at 12:45 PM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
Civil wars could happen. Incidentally if one broke out it's plausible that Russia would help arm the insurgents with some heftier badness. Don't think it can't happen here. It can happen here. I'm all out of illusions about what can and can't happen here now.
Perhaps wrongly, I tend to separate 'insurgency' from 'civil war' in my head - I tend to think of insurgency as what dis_integration called Asymmetric Warfare, and civil wars as more a nearly evenly matched armed conflict, as when the armed forces of several states lined up behind the confederacy.
Also, I didn't get across very well that the folks with the AK-47s wouldn't be interested in an insurgency, despite their crowing; they'd much rather fire on unarmed people who offend their sense of Rightness.
posted by Mooski at 12:45 PM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
Perhaps wrongly, I tend to separate 'insurgency' from 'civil war' in my head - I tend to think of insurgency as what dis_integration called Asymmetric Warfare, and civil wars as more a nearly evenly matched armed conflict, as when the armed forces of several states lined up behind the confederacy.
Also, I didn't get across very well that the folks with the AK-47s wouldn't be interested in an insurgency, despite their crowing; they'd much rather fire on unarmed people who offend their sense of Rightness.
posted by Mooski at 12:45 PM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
That would have been the problem with Bernie's proposals in a general election campaign: The costs would have been measured, even some estimates made in good faith would have been worrying, Republicans and vested interests would have pounced on those cost estimates, and he'd have been on the defensive.
Meanwhile, Paul Ryan keeps submitting budget summaries full of magic asterisks and the political press anoints him a Serious, Honest, Policy Wonk. Forget about Trump; he made things up and everyone knew it, though few cared.
posted by Gelatin at 12:45 PM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
Meanwhile, Paul Ryan keeps submitting budget summaries full of magic asterisks and the political press anoints him a Serious, Honest, Policy Wonk. Forget about Trump; he made things up and everyone knew it, though few cared.
posted by Gelatin at 12:45 PM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
The "Uncle Jerry" thing is starting to bug me as another one of those abuses of Kant's Categorical Imperative where the must be one right answer, and not a complicated calculus based on family history, safety, and potential patterns of abuse. My Uncle Jerry was my spiteful and frequently paranoid grandmother. The one time I talked about my principles in front of her as an adult, she went on a hunger strike, complained to her home health aide, and six hours later, I ended up answering questions about elder neglect because I had to step out for work. Unfortunately, we were stuck with each other for several years. I never did explicitly come out of the closet to her.
Stay safe and pick your battles. Sometimes, it really isn't worth it.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 12:46 PM on November 10, 2016 [28 favorites]
Stay safe and pick your battles. Sometimes, it really isn't worth it.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 12:46 PM on November 10, 2016 [28 favorites]
Now ask me if I think any of my Florida brethren would take their AK-47s to a gay bar.
Speaking of weapons, I've seen some online suggesting for the Democrats to drop gun control. It's too cultural of an issue to touch and it would be better to not just talk about it to win back single-issue voters.
posted by FJT at 12:47 PM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
Speaking of weapons, I've seen some online suggesting for the Democrats to drop gun control. It's too cultural of an issue to touch and it would be better to not just talk about it to win back single-issue voters.
posted by FJT at 12:47 PM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
Not spending time with racists is not a proper goal. It's a strategy, and strategies have half-lives. It's more important to be aware of and deliberate about whichever choice you make and how doing at relates to social progress. The labor lies in commiting to but also examining our choices over time. It's hard work, much like professional therapy.
posted by polymodus at 12:48 PM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by polymodus at 12:48 PM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
Does anyone have a line on a nice rear bumper for a green 1995 Subaru wagon that doesn't have a Bernie Sanders for President sticker on it?
That's going to have to be a custom job. There's no such thing. The stickers might as well have been pre-applied at the factory.
posted by zachlipton at 12:49 PM on November 10, 2016 [20 favorites]
That's going to have to be a custom job. There's no such thing. The stickers might as well have been pre-applied at the factory.
posted by zachlipton at 12:49 PM on November 10, 2016 [20 favorites]
I too did not vote for the Colorado health care measure for the reasons discussed above, although I am in favor of universal healthcare as a principle.
The history of the proposal and the campaign on both sides have a lot of details that do not map easily onto Clinton vs. Sanders in terms of the primary or general election.
posted by audi alteram partem at 12:49 PM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
The history of the proposal and the campaign on both sides have a lot of details that do not map easily onto Clinton vs. Sanders in terms of the primary or general election.
posted by audi alteram partem at 12:49 PM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
Does anyone have a line on a nice rear bumper for a green 1995 Subaru wagon that doesn't have a Bernie Sanders for President sticker on it?
Did you try putting lighter fluid on it? Not to light it on fire, but it's usually effective on most sticker glue.
posted by drezdn at 12:50 PM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
He wasn't talking about the Berlin Wall. He said Iron Curtain. The wall isn't physically there, the wall is drones and men in vehicles with guns. Closing the border is feasible. You just have to kill enough people who try.
You have to post troops for the full length of the border, 24/7, and keep them there for years, and top-to-bottom inspect every vehicle coming into the country, sharply curtail legal movement between the two countries ... while dealing with the fact that that's not our only border, just the one that's easiest for most Mexicans to get to.
It's certainly do-able, but the economics are just as much a stopping point as the ethics. (Which is almost certainly why this hasn't been done.)
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 12:51 PM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
You have to post troops for the full length of the border, 24/7, and keep them there for years, and top-to-bottom inspect every vehicle coming into the country, sharply curtail legal movement between the two countries ... while dealing with the fact that that's not our only border, just the one that's easiest for most Mexicans to get to.
It's certainly do-able, but the economics are just as much a stopping point as the ethics. (Which is almost certainly why this hasn't been done.)
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 12:51 PM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
A madman has been given the keys to the surveillance state
posted by jeffburdges at 12:52 PM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by jeffburdges at 12:52 PM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
Clinton lost because people didn't show up.
Trump did not galvanize a new bunch of conservatives he got the same number that Republicans always get. Low voter turnout equals a Republican win almost every time.
There are lots of potential reasons why Democrats decided to stay home this election but ultimately they don't matter a lot because what's done is done.
I think the reality is that plenty of Republican voters toyed around with voting third party and in the end they did what Republicans always do and that's come home to their candidate. Are some percentage of those people racist and misogynist? Yes. Are the remainder that believe that things like a building a wall were just allegory and he doesn't speak for all republicans delusional? Yep.
I was talking with my wife last night and I said that I look around a group of white people these days and I wonder which of them are racist or who would want my PoC or LGBT friends dead and I realized that for better of worse I am now seeing the world through the eyes of a minority. That while my gender and my skin color allow me to blend in I realize that I am living in a completely different world than some of my fellow white Americans.
If you have Republican friends I encourage you to ask them what was it that Trump said or did that allowed them to look past all of the bad stuff he said. If racism and sexism aren't a part of their party ask them what they are doing to get rid of it. Ask them what do we say to kids who are terrified that they will be deported or kicked out of their homes. Ask them what do people who depend on Obamacare to help pay for their care do if Obamacare goes away.
posted by vuron at 12:53 PM on November 10, 2016 [34 favorites]
Trump did not galvanize a new bunch of conservatives he got the same number that Republicans always get. Low voter turnout equals a Republican win almost every time.
There are lots of potential reasons why Democrats decided to stay home this election but ultimately they don't matter a lot because what's done is done.
I think the reality is that plenty of Republican voters toyed around with voting third party and in the end they did what Republicans always do and that's come home to their candidate. Are some percentage of those people racist and misogynist? Yes. Are the remainder that believe that things like a building a wall were just allegory and he doesn't speak for all republicans delusional? Yep.
I was talking with my wife last night and I said that I look around a group of white people these days and I wonder which of them are racist or who would want my PoC or LGBT friends dead and I realized that for better of worse I am now seeing the world through the eyes of a minority. That while my gender and my skin color allow me to blend in I realize that I am living in a completely different world than some of my fellow white Americans.
If you have Republican friends I encourage you to ask them what was it that Trump said or did that allowed them to look past all of the bad stuff he said. If racism and sexism aren't a part of their party ask them what they are doing to get rid of it. Ask them what do we say to kids who are terrified that they will be deported or kicked out of their homes. Ask them what do people who depend on Obamacare to help pay for their care do if Obamacare goes away.
posted by vuron at 12:53 PM on November 10, 2016 [34 favorites]
A repeat of the American Civil War built around the premise of secession or devolution isn't going to happen. Terrorism is another matter.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 12:53 PM on November 10, 2016
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 12:53 PM on November 10, 2016
I'm gonna have to get back to Mom and Dad's place to use Goo Gone or lighter fluid. All I have here is a bottle of falling off of the wagon brand scotch.
posted by Sphinx at 12:55 PM on November 10, 2016
posted by Sphinx at 12:55 PM on November 10, 2016
A vote for him is a vote for racism, xenophobia, sexism, and isolationism. Full stop.
posted by mochapickle at 12:56 PM on November 10, 2016 [13 favorites]
Speaking as someone who grew up in what is now the hollowed-out core of a Rust Belt city in the upper Midwest, I agree entirely with Patrick Thornton's take:
posted by informavore at 12:57 PM on November 10, 2016 [26 favorites]
"We, as a culture, have to stop infantilizing and deifying rural and white working-class Americans. Their experience is not more of a real American experience than anyone else’s, but when we say that it is, we give people a pass from seeing and understanding more of their country."A lot of these parts of the country are more or less in an economic death spiral. They know this, and they want to hold someone to blame. As this article from the Chronicle of Higher Ed points out, there's not much that job training programs can do, either. These folks are getting older, and the jobs they knew how to do aren't coming back:
"They say, ‘I don’t want to go back to school. I want my old job back. I want things to go back to the way it was,’" he says. "There is nostalgia. And there is anger."The anger is real and understandable, but it's inextricably knotted up with cultural isolation and, yes, real ignorance of how people live in other parts of the country. As Kevin Drum points out, you can't just treat that as an economic problem, since--and this is crucial--the economic facts alone don't explain it:
"it's hard to conclude from all this that the white working class is angry about Democratic economic policies. It's mostly about racial and cultural identity—and Republicans appeal to that primarily via symbolic attacks on welfare and immigration and affirmative action and "inner city" crime. Can Democrats join them in doing that? I don't see how."The demise of the structural conditions that sustained white identity is also, necessarily, the demise of white supremacy. All we can do is hope that these are its death spasms, and not signs of a violent rebirth.
posted by informavore at 12:57 PM on November 10, 2016 [26 favorites]
Clinton lost because people didn't show up.
Incidentally, this is why ANOHNI's Hopelessness has probably been disqualified from my records-of-the-year list this year. I can't help but think that her vitriolic excoriation of Obama probably contributed to a number of left-wing Democrats staying home or rationalising that they're-both-as-bad-as-each-other, possibly enough to tip the election.
posted by acb at 12:59 PM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
Incidentally, this is why ANOHNI's Hopelessness has probably been disqualified from my records-of-the-year list this year. I can't help but think that her vitriolic excoriation of Obama probably contributed to a number of left-wing Democrats staying home or rationalising that they're-both-as-bad-as-each-other, possibly enough to tip the election.
posted by acb at 12:59 PM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
"Estonia is in the suburbs of St. Petersburg. The Russians aren't gonna necessarily come across the border militarily. The Russians are gonna do what they did in Ukraine," he said. "I'm not sure I would risk a nuclear war over some place which is the suburbs of St. Petersburg. I think we have to think about what does this stuff mean."
Distance from St. Petersburgh to Narva, Estonia, according to Google Maps: 152 km.
Distance from Montreal, QC to Burlington VT, according to Google Maps: 152 km.
J'espère que les gens du Vermont sont prêts à rénover leur français. Nous y serons bientôt, avec l'approbation tacite de Gingrich.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 1:00 PM on November 10, 2016 [13 favorites]
Distance from St. Petersburgh to Narva, Estonia, according to Google Maps: 152 km.
Distance from Montreal, QC to Burlington VT, according to Google Maps: 152 km.
J'espère que les gens du Vermont sont prêts à rénover leur français. Nous y serons bientôt, avec l'approbation tacite de Gingrich.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 1:00 PM on November 10, 2016 [13 favorites]
When I woke up this morning I turned on the radio (CBC) and there was an hourly news update talking about Trump's potential cabinet members. I was half awake making coffee as they ran down the list - Palin, Gingrich, Giuliani, Christie - and it slowly hit me: I'm living in a bad South Park episode.
posted by mannequito at 1:02 PM on November 10, 2016 [19 favorites]
posted by mannequito at 1:02 PM on November 10, 2016 [19 favorites]
The Muslim ban is back on Trump's site.
posted by beau jackson at 1:04 PM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by beau jackson at 1:04 PM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
The Muslim ban is back on Trump's site.
By Jove, I think Trump has tapped into some sort of quantum uncertainty effect where he holds all positions at the same time. Does the mere act of observing his website change its content?
posted by tonycpsu at 1:06 PM on November 10, 2016 [28 favorites]
By Jove, I think Trump has tapped into some sort of quantum uncertainty effect where he holds all positions at the same time. Does the mere act of observing his website change its content?
posted by tonycpsu at 1:06 PM on November 10, 2016 [28 favorites]
Okay, so. I have an ACA health insurance plan. I'm trying to get a job that provides health insurance benefits, but right now I don't have that. Does anyone actually know what will happen if they do go ahead and "repeal and replace" Obamacare, realistically? Would the Obamacare coverage continue until whatever the replacement is goes into effect?
posted by wondermouse at 1:06 PM on November 10, 2016
posted by wondermouse at 1:06 PM on November 10, 2016
A vote for him is a vote for racism, xenophobia, sexism, and isolationism. Full stop.
I have a friend who has never voted and no amount of reasoning will make him. But if you told him Rob Zombie was running he'd camp overnight outside the polls. He would not care if Rob could do the job or not.
So all these people that don't believe in the government or paying tax and especially politicians get the bigot of their fantasies to vote for, oh boy did they show up.
posted by adept256 at 1:07 PM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
Donald Trump Will Destroy the Federal Regulatory State. Just Ask Him.
Anyway, it’s the strangest thing. America’s most powerful elites haven’t gotten the memo that they were supposed to be uniformly opposed to Donald Trump:posted by tonycpsu at 1:08 PM on November 10, 2016 [18 favorites]Mr. Trump will probably find common ground with many Republicans in Congress, including Speaker Paul D. Ryan, on cutting regulation. They clashed during the campaign over Mr. Trump’s past conduct toward women and inflammatory statements about ethnic groups, and many Republicans do not see eye to eye with Mr. Trump on immigration and trade.Hmm, it’s almost as if the Republican Party is not united against Donald Trump but is united behind him because he is a vessel and in many cases an active collaborator they can work with to pass their agenda. This agenda, in short, is to completely gut the American regulatory and welfare states, enact a massive upward distribution of wealth, suppress minority voters, and to use the federal judiciary to attack progressive state legislatures and future Democratic Congresses on the one hand while allowing Republican statehouses and public officials free rein on the other. Admittedly, none of this is nearly as important as Hillary Clinton’s compliance with internal email management policies.
“But Ryan and Trump are like-minded on regulation in a way they are not on trade and immigration,” said Ted Gayer, director of the economic studies program at the Brookings Institution and a former Treasury official under President George W. Bush. “That is red meat for both of them.”
[...]
The thing about a constant drumbeat of negative coverage about bullshit pseudo-scandals is that, like negative advertising, it suppresses turnout. This was hugely beneficial to Donald Trump. Ignoring or distorting or outright lying about the vast substantive gulf between Ryan/McConnell/Trump’s Gilded Age radicalism and Hillary Clinton’s moderate liberalism is also, given the unpopularity of the former agenda, hugely beneficial to Donald Trump. Many Trump voters have no idea what’s about to be done to them and the planet and wouldn’t support it if they knew, but the media conspicuously failed to even try to inform the public about what actually matters about the election. I’m sure many of the editors and reporters who made abjectly horrible judgments about what was worth focusing on (and frequently botched the trivia they did decide to cover) figured it wouldn’t matter because Trump had no chance anyway. Heckuva job!
My guess is that there would have to be some period of time for the new law to be implemented. In that time, they'd probably let you keep your current plan.
posted by drezdn at 1:08 PM on November 10, 2016
posted by drezdn at 1:08 PM on November 10, 2016
How loyal to Putin are the Latvian Russians? I read a while ago (in Der Spiegel, I believe) that the citizens of the (90% Russian-speaking) eastern-Estonian city of Narva are very much pro-European and have little time for Russian nationalism or visions of “Eurasian” autocratic traditions of governance. They like their rule of law, not being fleeced by mafias or oligarchs, and the general humanistic post-Enlightenment world view very much, and aren't in a hurry to trade it in.
Fuck load of good that does.
The Russian disinformation machine will present them as helpless victims, and the useful idiots will buy it up. It's not even a right wing or left wing thing. Plenty of leftist shills take their cues (and possibly their orders) from Moscow. And it works. I have a Serbian frat brother who buys the line about how the Russians in Transnistria and the Osettians and Avkhazians needed rescue from the oh so cruel Romanians and Georgians. The enclaves in question were established years ago using the same playbook. Hell, the Sudetenland and Gdansk were taken under the same pretext.
posted by ocschwar at 1:09 PM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
In that time, they'd probably let you keep your current plan.
Because nothing is better for people with chronic health problems than praying for the largesse of the corporations. For fuck's sake.
posted by OverlappingElvis at 1:10 PM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
Because nothing is better for people with chronic health problems than praying for the largesse of the corporations. For fuck's sake.
posted by OverlappingElvis at 1:10 PM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
Slate's Michelle Goldberg is advocating the adoption the post-Brexit symbol of solidarity and tolerance that people began wearing, the safety pin.
posted by Doktor Zed at 1:10 PM on November 10, 2016 [19 favorites]
posted by Doktor Zed at 1:10 PM on November 10, 2016 [19 favorites]
Donald Trump Will Destroy the Federal Regulatory State. Just Ask Him.
Oh yeah one of the fears my brain decided to deliver this morning was "what if they defund the FDA and my whole family gets sick and dies?" so that was fucking awful.
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 1:11 PM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
Oh yeah one of the fears my brain decided to deliver this morning was "what if they defund the FDA and my whole family gets sick and dies?" so that was fucking awful.
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 1:11 PM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
From Trump's site:
Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what is going on.
Yes, I am certain that with Trump's handpicked scumbags in his Cabinet and Administration, and the Senate and House being majority Republican, our country's representatives would absolutely kill themselves to make "figuring out what is going on" a top priority.
posted by Rykey at 1:11 PM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what is going on.
Yes, I am certain that with Trump's handpicked scumbags in his Cabinet and Administration, and the Senate and House being majority Republican, our country's representatives would absolutely kill themselves to make "figuring out what is going on" a top priority.
posted by Rykey at 1:11 PM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
Patrick Thornton has expanded on his tweets about rural and elite; it's pretty good.
posted by emjaybee at 1:17 PM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 1:17 PM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
Everytime I hit the bottom, there's 132 more comments. So I'll just leave this here, one of many resonant comments from this NYT article:
I regret Lincoln's decision to maintain the Union when it was so clear that the marriage was over, as in 620,000 dead bodies over and done. But Lincoln intoned "With malice toward none, with charity for all, with firmness in the right as God gives us to see the right, let us strive on to finish the work we are in, to bind up the nation's wounds."
Of course, John Wilkes Booth did not see it that way, nor did the descendants of the Confederacy. And neither do the followers of Trump as they rejoice in the triumph of hate-mongering. His message was white-supremacist beginning with his disparagement of Obama's birth certificate, and it all went from there.
How to cope with Trump and his gargoyles? How about a national divorce lawyer to get this unwanted union over with? They don't want us, and we don't want them. No more shot-gun weddings, let's call off this abusive and unwanted marriage.
posted by yoga at 1:17 PM on November 10, 2016 [10 favorites]
I regret Lincoln's decision to maintain the Union when it was so clear that the marriage was over, as in 620,000 dead bodies over and done. But Lincoln intoned "With malice toward none, with charity for all, with firmness in the right as God gives us to see the right, let us strive on to finish the work we are in, to bind up the nation's wounds."
Of course, John Wilkes Booth did not see it that way, nor did the descendants of the Confederacy. And neither do the followers of Trump as they rejoice in the triumph of hate-mongering. His message was white-supremacist beginning with his disparagement of Obama's birth certificate, and it all went from there.
How to cope with Trump and his gargoyles? How about a national divorce lawyer to get this unwanted union over with? They don't want us, and we don't want them. No more shot-gun weddings, let's call off this abusive and unwanted marriage.
posted by yoga at 1:17 PM on November 10, 2016 [10 favorites]
Slate's Michelle Goldberg is advocating the adoption the post-Brexit symbol of solidarity and tolerance that people began wearing, the safety pin.
I just ordered 20 "LOVE TRUMPS HATE" buttons to spread around my friend group today for exactly the same reason.
posted by mayonnaises at 1:17 PM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
I just ordered 20 "LOVE TRUMPS HATE" buttons to spread around my friend group today for exactly the same reason.
posted by mayonnaises at 1:17 PM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
Oh yeah one of the fears my brain decided to deliver this morning was "what if they defund the FDA and my whole family gets sick and dies?" so that was fucking awful.
Maybe not defund, but defang:
posted by Etrigan at 1:19 PM on November 10, 2016 [9 favorites]
Maybe not defund, but defang:
Reforms will also include cutting the red tape at the FDA: there are over 4,000 drugs awaiting approval, and we especially want to speed the approval of life-saving medications.Hope you like side effects, America.
posted by Etrigan at 1:19 PM on November 10, 2016 [9 favorites]
greatagain.gov (sigh): Energy Independence
posted by tonycpsu at 1:19 PM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
Rather than continuing the current path to undermine and block America’s fossil fuel producers, the Trump Administration will encourage the production of these resources by opening onshore and offshore leasing on federal lands and waters. We will streamline the permitting process for all energy projects, including the billions of dollars in projects held up by President Obama, and rescind the job-destroying executive actions under his Administration. We will end the war on coal, and rescind the coal mining lease moratorium, the excessive Interior Department stream rule, and conduct a top-down review of all anti-coal regulations issued by the Obama Administration. We will eliminate the highly invasive "Waters of the US" rule, and scrap the $5 trillion dollar Obama-Clinton Climate Action Plan and the Clean Power Plan and prevent these unilateral plans from increasing monthly electric bills by double-digits without any measurable effect on Earth’s climate. Energy is the lifeblood of modern society. It is the industry that fuels all other industries. We will lift the restrictions on American energy, and allow this wealth to pour into our communities. It’s all upside: more jobs, more revenues, more wealth, higher wages, and lower energy prices.Drill baby drill.
posted by tonycpsu at 1:19 PM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
I could maybe see a few secret #nevertrump delegates sneaking in
I wouldn't hope too hard for this. Every #NeverTrumper with any degree of electability we put up as a delegate. We didn't have the numbers to pack the electors too and figured we wouldn't have to. There may be some organic ones, but we didn't put them there or organize them, and it would be difficult to do in less than a month.
posted by corb at 1:20 PM on November 10, 2016 [7 favorites]
I wouldn't hope too hard for this. Every #NeverTrumper with any degree of electability we put up as a delegate. We didn't have the numbers to pack the electors too and figured we wouldn't have to. There may be some organic ones, but we didn't put them there or organize them, and it would be difficult to do in less than a month.
posted by corb at 1:20 PM on November 10, 2016 [7 favorites]
Okay, so. I have an ACA health insurance plan. I'm trying to get a job that provides health insurance benefits, but right now I don't have that. Does anyone actually know what will happen if they do go ahead and "repeal and replace" Obamacare, realistically? Would the Obamacare coverage continue until whatever the replacement is goes into effect?
I'm not sure there's a way to really know, but I'm worried they'll fully gut Obamacare by executive action or one of the House budget methods, then use it's absence to pressure the Senate Democrats into not filibustering whatever alternative they have in mind.
posted by DynamiteToast at 1:21 PM on November 10, 2016
I'm not sure there's a way to really know, but I'm worried they'll fully gut Obamacare by executive action or one of the House budget methods, then use it's absence to pressure the Senate Democrats into not filibustering whatever alternative they have in mind.
posted by DynamiteToast at 1:21 PM on November 10, 2016
The kind of ironic thing about the Electoral College discussions is that if you go back to Hamilton's arguments in support of it, the EC is there to prevent exactly this sort of result, where an unfit candidate could ride a wave of popular support (in this case, not nationally, but certainly at the state level) to attain the office. The electors were intended to be qualified individuals who would take the will of the people into account but ultimately exercise their own independent judgment. This plan started going awry almost immediately as the party system took shape, but the EC actually choosing to exercise that independent judgment here would be in keeping with the spirit in which it was designed.
I also think it's essentially a total fantasy that we'd have faithless electors in sufficient numbers to flip the result, as they are generally chosen to be party loyalists. It would be without precedent, and I'd share the fear about violence as a result. I'm not sure that describing it as a coup is really fair given that DJT lost the popular vote by a sizable amount, but his supporters would probably be left with that sense (can you even IMAGINE the Trumpian demagoguery that would emerge from the EC electing someone else?) and respond accordingly.
posted by Kosh at 1:21 PM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
I also think it's essentially a total fantasy that we'd have faithless electors in sufficient numbers to flip the result, as they are generally chosen to be party loyalists. It would be without precedent, and I'd share the fear about violence as a result. I'm not sure that describing it as a coup is really fair given that DJT lost the popular vote by a sizable amount, but his supporters would probably be left with that sense (can you even IMAGINE the Trumpian demagoguery that would emerge from the EC electing someone else?) and respond accordingly.
posted by Kosh at 1:21 PM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
Drill baby drill.
It's especially ironic because the U.S. made huge energy independence leaps over the last years (partially from fracking, but still)
posted by drezdn at 1:23 PM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
It's especially ironic because the U.S. made huge energy independence leaps over the last years (partially from fracking, but still)
posted by drezdn at 1:23 PM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
Here's Gingrich today backing off the "Mexico will pay for it" part, calling it a "great campaign device"
In other news, Russian hackers throw Trump victory party with new spear phishing campaign:
In other news, Russian hackers throw Trump victory party with new spear phishing campaign:
Less than six hours after Donald Trump won the US presidential election, a new spear phishing campaign was launched by a Russia-based group. The group is apparently one of the two organizations connected to the breach at the Democratic National Committee, and it's responsible for nearly a decade of intelligence collection campaigns against military and diplomatic targets.posted by zachlipton at 1:23 PM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
Security firm Volexity refers to the group as "the Dukes" based on the malware family being utilized. According to a report by Volexity founder Steven Adair, the group is known for a malware family known as "the Dukes"—also referred to as APT29 or "Cozy Bear." The Dukes' primary targets in this latest round of attacks appear to be non-governmental organizations (NGOs) and policy think tanks in the US.
How, where, when did we go wrong?
posted by Postroad at 1:24 PM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Postroad at 1:24 PM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
Reforms will also include cutting the red tape at the FDA: there are over 4,000 drugs awaiting approval, and we especially want to speed the approval of life-saving medications.
Hope you like side effects, America.
Thalidomide
posted by rocket88 at 1:24 PM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
Hope you like side effects, America.
Thalidomide
posted by rocket88 at 1:24 PM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
If I have to guess what alternative to Obamacare they'll go with, it's health savings accounts. Which aren't very useful unless you're upper middle class+.
posted by drezdn at 1:24 PM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by drezdn at 1:24 PM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
Keep those encryption resources coming people. And lists of responsive progressive orgs.
posted by aspersioncast at 1:25 PM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by aspersioncast at 1:25 PM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
We all know Clinton would have done better if she were a man. With the exact same record, she would have been fine and probably won.From a McKinsey summary on diversity in corporate workplaces: Women are judged on their achievements. Men are judged on their potential."
That certainly appears to hold true in this election. Clinton was continuously hung not only for her own minor infractions, but also for those of her committee, her foundation, and a number of other perceived extensions to her identity. Despite her career in governance and experience in decision-making, her platform was rarely as discussed as her identity.
On the other hand, Trump's history of corruption, graft, racism, sexism, etc. was largely accepted. Clinton's campaign could not get traction against Trump, for his supporters seemed immune to his past, focusing only on his potential. Despite the fact he was surrounded by deposed former greats from Giuliani to Assange, only his platform was discussed and never his identity. Despite personal failures endemic of a facist, and a razor-thin platform, his supporters looked past the man and only saw a promise.
Further, workplace diversity studies find that women executives are least likely to promote other women managers. Far from enacting diversity strategies within organisations, women executives penalise women managers – holding them to greater account than male managers and promoting women less often than male subordinates. Women receive more critical feedback and less praise for the same performance as men.
Perhaps that begins to explain how Clinton failed to capture the imagination of women on the voting day. Not only was she judged on her identity and not her platform, judged on her past instead of her potential, but also other women judged her more harshly than an openly sexist man with behaviour bordering on that of a predator.
Some of Hilary Clinton's most impassioned endorsements came from what the mainstream would consider highly-successful minorities, either measured by gender, race, or religion. Many of the most successful people in Silicon Valley are men, but they are immigrant men. Many successful female business leaders endorsed Clinton, but they are female business leaders. In all of these cases, white America purposefully looked beyond success and track-record. They looked at gender and race.
Meanwhile Donald Trump surrounded himself with a cabal of caucasian men of questionable ethics, morals, and status. One of his greatest supporters currently lives in an embassy in London where he is wanted by Sweden for sex crimes. Not only is Giuliani's track record in New York questionable, but he has developed a consultancy and lobbying firm that makes billions from known hostile corporations and governments. Pence is a fervent supporter of the Republican war on women, while the Brietbart/Drudge family have arguably done more to destroy credibility of the American media than any other outlet. Penultimately, one of silicon valley's brightest venture capitalists, a man who recently bankrupted a media outlet based on a personal vendetta. And finally, the leader of UKIP himself. A man who openly lied to Great Britain to get the Brexit referendum passed, and now incites violence as the country goes through its own former legal process.
Yet these men are not judged on their past actions or behaviours. They exist as white men who are free from being judged by their genders and races. For them, the privilege of being a white man means freedom from gender and race. In fact, it appears to mean freedom from identity itself. For the Republican side of the election was judged not on its pasts, but rather on a simply binary calculation. Can these men "make American great again?"
It is like entering the halls of mirrors, where the woman candidate has the platform and the plan that truly address the failings of the American economic, political, and social systems. She proposed the agendas that represented systemic and permanent fixes to broken communities.
The male candidate has a questionable history of personal behaviour, and associates with men whose histories are not questionable but rather known to be antisocial and predatory. He has no agenda other than a pro-business agenda, which will exacerbate unsustainable levels of inequality and decimate both environmental and social policies. Far worse from simply rolling back the clock to an America from a different time, Trump's agendas will leverage some of the most advanced systems and tools in the world against America's own weakest citizens and residents.
Yet, Clinton was judged on her identity – her achievements and failings – while Trump was simply judged on his potential to deliver an ambiguous and unspecified 'greatness'.
It is too easy to say that the system is rigged, although it very well may be. In the end, Clinton ended up bringing a knife to a gunfight. While she raised campaign donations and spent money on media buys, the Republican party had the help of foreign powers, hackers, and extraterritorial organisations like WikiLeaks. It may have been Hilary Clinton against Donald Trump, but it was the White Male World against Hilary Clinton.
It is a plot so stock it could have been lifted from the DaVinci Code. Female oppression at any cost – at every cost. While heritage and race are the most obvious forms of discrimination and social inequality, the most practiced form is that of gender inequality. The highest costs come from gender inequality. And the most brutal forms of enforcement come at the hands of gender inequality. Women receive equal pay in very few advanced societies, and further, women receive lesser protection from criminal activity and abuse in nearly every society.
Rape as a crime may well be the most underreported crime in the world – to the point where the most advanced legal structures in the world often fail to have a consistent and functional definition for rape in the real world. The concept is very clear, but the practice remains open to interpretation.
If women's unpaid labour worldwide was monetised, it would represent an economy greater than that of the United States. The underground economy of women's work is larger than the total output of the most advanced economies in history. And simultaneously the men who would run the world's most advanced industrial economy showed their willingness to oppress its women in primitive displays of male domination. "I grab them by their pussies," said the President-Elect of the United States on record.
Yet that comment alone not only did not disqualify him, but white women from the South defended him for saying it. Gender roles and limits imposed not individually, but rather structurally – designed into the very nature of the system itself. Women who believe that men are superior, and enforce that belief on other women. Women who can only justify their own repression by propagating that oppression itself.
Obama began laying the foundations for a true shift in American life, starting with education and health care. He sought to address the structural failures of the American economy and political system, and create change that won't even truly register for twenty years. Given Trump's 100 day play, Obama's policies may never register at all. Eight years of work dismantled in less than four. The solutions to America's problems will take a generation to solve. The country rose to power on the back of an industrial society, but now the world has moved on.
Too many unproductive machines and unproductive hands. Broken social contracts. The Republicans have a point that the neoliberal agenda failed to account for its own success. Globalisation enriched societies, but in greatly unequal measures. While Apple moved manufacturing to China and Apple and its shareholders continue to profit, American works fell down. The more companies that produced abroad, the more workers fell down. There was no safety net. There was nothing for them.
If New York had remained poor and desolate – as in the late 70s and early 80s – we could argue that deindustrialization was an American problem. But it's not. New York became so fantastically wealthy in the early 2000s that it had to literally invent new ways to recycle capital. When the Global Financial Crisis came, New York was the last place to be hit and the first place to recover. Obama may have won the rust belt on hope... twice... but precious little has been done to save those communities in this generation.
Obama – the great idealist – was laying down the plans to permanently fix the country. And in the meantime, it continued to degrade. Blocked by Republicans in Congress, supported by flyover states bubbling with seething racism and hatred. There is nothing Democrats can do to help the poor in Republican states, for those people are participants in their own enslavement. So focused on moral agendas, they fail to see systemic cycles of local poverty that persist regardless of who occupies the White House.
The great enslavers of bankrupt and broken caucasian communities aren't in the Federal government, they're in the local governments and in the state governments. But much like the women who are co-opted into shaming other women for achievement, poor white communities in America remain so distracted by claims that immigration and race drive poverty that they fail to see that the perpetrators of some of the the greatest wealth inequalities exist within their own communities.
A professor in Los Angeles once said that if you can keep the rats fighting by giving them table scraps, they'll completely miss the meal going on overhead. That is gender and race in America today – that was gender and race in this election. Those are the policies of Donald Trump, and that will be Donald Trump's America.
The calls to come together and maintain the orderly tradition of handing over power come. The concession, and the acceptance. The acquiesence to the infallibility of the American electoral process. The acquiescence to the finality of the American electoral process, for the votes that were cast represent the will of the people.
At present, the will of the people was for Hillary Clinton, first female American president, and her platform of rebooting the American economy around increased taxation, education and healthcare spending.
Instead, we are now being told that the will of the people was to elect a corrupt man who is openly racist and sexist. Who came to power in part because he was the beneficiary of illegal hacking activities, and supported by the inappropriate actions of some of American's own organs of law enforcement. A man who ran on an anti-globalisation platform, who was only elected because the activities of his supporters could not be prosecuted because they were conducted from foreign geographies.
And now, the American white male has participated in his own enslavement. By supporting another white male who will assuredly make his situation worse, whilst slagging off the woman – the minority – who will assuredly make his situation better. Donald Trump has perpetrated the greatest media campaign in history, in that he gained the support of people he has no intention of serving. In fact, he has managed to divide the country so heavily along gender and racial lines that the American people may out of desperation consume themselves.
Witness the hate crimes of Day 1 in Trump's America. People in poor and middle class communities attacking other people in poor and middle class communities. Meanwhile, the stock market hit a record high.
In campaigning under the banner of the ultimate change, Donald Trump has ensured that there will effectively be no change to the status of the white male elite in America. He successful posited Hillary Clinton as the plutocratic candidate, when her policies were amongst the most socially-aggressive that we would have seen. She was truly the ultimate change, while he represents no change.
However, he excels at marketing and branding, and he was able to convince enough of America of the mirror image – for long enough to win the election that will determine America's direction for the next 25 years.
If he is successful at remaining President Elect and transitioning into President, he may well have the opportunity to enact his plans and policies. The United States will lose its edge in so many areas it would be hard to cover them all, but most obviously renewable energy and technology. While Trump claims he will make America great again, if he is successful, he may well begin down the road Mao took China – a road of isolationism and self-destruction. By the time China emerged from its populist leanings, it was destroyed economically and millions upon millions had starved.
There will be those in American society that feel they have a moral imperative to prevent Donald Trump from taking his place as the President of the United States. There are petitions for the electoral college to elect Hillary Clinton based on the popular vote. As seen above, there are calls for Trump (and Pence's) assassination on social media. There are protests in the streets, and violence is erupting. Unless that violence occurs quickly and at a scale which demands national attention, Trump may well use that violence in the same way Erdogan uses dissent in Turkey. As an excuse to turn the military against the people and enforce compliance with his regime. The limits of restoring law and order know no bounds in a society as heavily militarised as America.
And in the end, we have reached a point which may well define the next chapter of America. Perhaps Obama represents our greatest leader, and when he leaves, we close the greatest chapter of American history. For as great as the country is (or was), we were unable to cross the last remaining divide – that of electing a woman to lead it. No matter how great America is – or proclaims to be – it will remain a society that can only be led by men, and therefore limited to be as great as a society only led by men can be. Thus, we may be witnessing the apex of America, and a gradual but consistent dissent is all that will remain.
Perhaps the saddest fact of all is that Hillary Clinton won the popular vote. More people in America wanted her to lead the country than her opponent.
Yet, now the same Trump campaign that flouted the law and operated at the very edge of it, hides in defence behind it. The same campaign that used illegal methods to win the electoral vote now hides behind legal status in defending itself from the popular vote. The same campaign that would say anything under the acts of free speech, will now ensure that others are not free do the same.
There is a reason Vladimir Putin jockeyed for, and immediately congratulated Donald Trump. Putin needed Trump to win, so that America enters the same downward spiral as Russia. Trading on its past instead of its future. For by electing Trump, we have now elected a man who will exercise power like Putin exercises power. The disparities will grow, as will poverty, racism, and terrorism. The country and the world will be less safe, yet the white American man will believe he is safer. So long as the strong man maintains the illusion, the power structure remains hidden and therefore unassailable.
There will be many beneficiaries to Donald Trump's presidency, as there have been many beneficiaries of Vladimir Putin's leadership. Sadly, in the former case, those beneficiaries will not be the American people. Trump's America will be self-serving and consume the country. By the time he is done, China will be stronger, as will Europe – if it survives.
America has chosen to be poorer, more violent, and less fair. All because we as a whole couldn't judge a women by her potential, and instead held her to her achievements.
If this isn't a textbook example of the need for diversity in the workplace, I don't know what is.
posted by nickrussell at 1:25 PM on November 10, 2016 [100 favorites]
I realize I've brought up my Girl Scouts about eleventy times the last two days, but please allow me once more for a plug. I just posted the following on facebook:
posted by phunniemee at 1:26 PM on November 10, 2016 [18 favorites]
If you want to get more directly and continuously involved in helping build a brighter world together, consider volunteering with the Girl Scouts.If you want to get started but don't now how, shoot me a memail. I will do the legwork to get you hooked up.
Hillary Clinton was a Girl Scout. Michelle Obama was a Girl Scout. Janet Reno was a Girl Scout. Madeleine Albright was a Girl Scout. Sheila Widnall was a Girl Scout. Geraldine Ferraro was a Girl Scout. Carol Moseley Braun was a Girl Scout.
Help encourage tomorrow's leaders.
posted by phunniemee at 1:26 PM on November 10, 2016 [18 favorites]
Yep, when a Republican goes to the voting booth and is asked to select between two candidates there is pretty much a given that they are going to vote Republican 9 times out of 10. This is evidenced by the fact that Trump really didn't lag behind down ballot incumbent Republicans in most cases. Republican voters understand that it's a package deal and they get some stuff they want with stuff they don't want.
The White Suburban Voter wants school choice because they don't want to send their kids to the local public school not because they are explicitly racist but because they want their kids to succeed. The White Suburban Voter wants gun rights because they feel like they can't depend on police to protect them from the spectre of home invasion or whatever other NRA bullshit fantasy. The White Suburban Voter is angry at liberals for making them feel bad (calling them racist, sexist, whatever) when they are doing what they've always done and what they've been raised to do. They don't want Obamacare because they already have employer provided healthcare and can't imagine an exsistence in which it's gone.
In contrast many white liberal voters (and let's be honest these are the people that seem to have failed to show up - latinx voter turnout was up and AA turnout was pretty high) seem to want their political allegiance to be an ala carte selection so you get the following:
I want an end to foreign interventions so X is unacceptable because they support the use of drones, and I want green economic growth so Y is unacceptable because they support frakking, and I want the end of neoliberal economic systems so Z is unacceptable because they are close with banks.
Unfortunately liberals seem to want a candidate with a compelling narrative that doesn't have any flaws and who is charismatic and kind and unfortunately those sorts of people don't typically enter into politics because politics is ugly and messy and it's about constant compromise.
Republican voters seem to understand this and will vote for the person that is going to get them the majority of what they want. Minority voters seem to understand this as well because they will continually vote for candidates that give them a chance at a better future. What I do see among many white liberals is that we fall victim to the both sides are just as bad logic and we disengage. We disengage because frankly for many of us there are no deep and lasting consequences either way.
I desperately wanted Clinton to win not because I'm going to be hurt by Trump's policies because most of them won't impact me at all either but because I was willing to accept the good with the bad and because I wanted my daughter to experience an America that was actually willing to elect a woman as President. I'm twisted in knots not because something negative is going to happen to me but because I don't want anything negative to happen to any of my fellow americans.
But unfortunately so many Americans are completely apathetic about the consequences of elections. It won't hurt them and theirs either way so they are willing to say a pox on both houses.
posted by vuron at 1:26 PM on November 10, 2016 [32 favorites]
The White Suburban Voter wants school choice because they don't want to send their kids to the local public school not because they are explicitly racist but because they want their kids to succeed. The White Suburban Voter wants gun rights because they feel like they can't depend on police to protect them from the spectre of home invasion or whatever other NRA bullshit fantasy. The White Suburban Voter is angry at liberals for making them feel bad (calling them racist, sexist, whatever) when they are doing what they've always done and what they've been raised to do. They don't want Obamacare because they already have employer provided healthcare and can't imagine an exsistence in which it's gone.
In contrast many white liberal voters (and let's be honest these are the people that seem to have failed to show up - latinx voter turnout was up and AA turnout was pretty high) seem to want their political allegiance to be an ala carte selection so you get the following:
I want an end to foreign interventions so X is unacceptable because they support the use of drones, and I want green economic growth so Y is unacceptable because they support frakking, and I want the end of neoliberal economic systems so Z is unacceptable because they are close with banks.
Unfortunately liberals seem to want a candidate with a compelling narrative that doesn't have any flaws and who is charismatic and kind and unfortunately those sorts of people don't typically enter into politics because politics is ugly and messy and it's about constant compromise.
Republican voters seem to understand this and will vote for the person that is going to get them the majority of what they want. Minority voters seem to understand this as well because they will continually vote for candidates that give them a chance at a better future. What I do see among many white liberals is that we fall victim to the both sides are just as bad logic and we disengage. We disengage because frankly for many of us there are no deep and lasting consequences either way.
I desperately wanted Clinton to win not because I'm going to be hurt by Trump's policies because most of them won't impact me at all either but because I was willing to accept the good with the bad and because I wanted my daughter to experience an America that was actually willing to elect a woman as President. I'm twisted in knots not because something negative is going to happen to me but because I don't want anything negative to happen to any of my fellow americans.
But unfortunately so many Americans are completely apathetic about the consequences of elections. It won't hurt them and theirs either way so they are willing to say a pox on both houses.
posted by vuron at 1:26 PM on November 10, 2016 [32 favorites]
Hope you like side effects, America. I guess on the plus side with ACA repealed and the economy gutted we plebes probably won't be able to afford fripperies like medication.
posted by aspersioncast at 1:26 PM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by aspersioncast at 1:26 PM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
If I have to guess what alternative to Obamacare they'll go with, it's health savings accounts. Which aren't very useful unless you're upper middle class+.
Hahah remember when the Republicans were JUST FURIOUS about HIGH DEDUCTIBLE OBAMACARE?
Look what they've come up with. High deductible plans, just without the tax subsidies or consumer protections and with a BS tax writeoff that will mean nothing to the people who don't have enough writeoffs to justify not taking a standard deduction anyway.
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:27 PM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
Hahah remember when the Republicans were JUST FURIOUS about HIGH DEDUCTIBLE OBAMACARE?
Look what they've come up with. High deductible plans, just without the tax subsidies or consumer protections and with a BS tax writeoff that will mean nothing to the people who don't have enough writeoffs to justify not taking a standard deduction anyway.
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:27 PM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
If I have to guess what alternative to Obamacare they'll go with, it's health savings accounts. Which aren't very useful unless you're upper middle class+.
And even if you are. You can save and save for years, even if you're well off, and still not have enough for cancer or a transplant.
posted by mochapickle at 1:29 PM on November 10, 2016 [10 favorites]
And even if you are. You can save and save for years, even if you're well off, and still not have enough for cancer or a transplant.
posted by mochapickle at 1:29 PM on November 10, 2016 [10 favorites]
“This may be the year when we finally come face to face with ourselves; finally just lay back and say it — that we are really just a nation of 220 million used car salesmen with all the money we need to buy guns, and no qualms at all about killing anybody else in the world who tries to make us uncomfortable. The tragedy of all this is that George McGovern, for all his mistakes... understands what a fantastic monument to all the best instincts of the human race this country might have been, if we could have kept it out of the hands of greedy little hustlers like Richard Nixon. McGovern made some stupid mistakes, but in context they seem almost frivolous compared to the things Richard Nixon does every day of his life, on purpose... Jesus! Where will it end? How low do you have to stoop in this country to be President?” –HST
Lot of old paradigms that were useless the moment they were created still lurking in our infosphere. Look at the ’68 election and the Buckley vs Gore debates. Or rather, the perception and iterations of the Buckley-Vidal debates.
Two privileged extremists who didn’t like each other cast into the “conservative” and “liberal” voice of America. Wrong from the outset. Buckley defended Johnson, Daley, and Reagan (started as a strong-union Dem), Vidal championed attacking Buckley mostly.
What we remember, mostly, is Buckley calling Vial “queer” and Vidal calling him a “crypto-Nazi.”
But what was important was the media noticed they’d get better ratings by putting two talking heads on t.v. representing supposed positions rather than factually covering the actual ’68 conventions.
Plenty of people have noticed and commented in other threads on the historical similarities between ’68 Democrats and 2016 and Bernie Sanders, etc.
But that ain’t what happened, because coverage was focused on something other than reality. They didn’t get how someone could hate Trump because if you’re “conservative” you have to love the GOP candidate because we culturally impress bipolarity on our electorate.
Plenty of people who were New Deal dems voted for Reagan. We forgot that. But that’s by design. I’ve had plenty of people try to insult me by insulting Dick Cheney because I’m “conservative” I must love Bush-Cheney, amirite? And they “win” the “argument” and that’s apparently what the internet is for instead of actual discourse.
And to be clear, I don’t hold Buckley and Vidal harmless because t.v. is less relevant now.. They were pawns in pioneering this kind of “communication” but they were (more than) willing pawns.
As a result we live in two worlds with two different narratives that - beyond Orwell’s nightmare of constant triumph over the other side (which also shifts definition) – we actually PAY to participate in.
And naturally that fosters an appeal to the “uneducated.” Yes, the white working class people who voted for Reagan (and JFK or FRD if they’re that old) voted for Trump and so did their kids.
I love Garrison Keillor but his “Let the uneducated have their day” attitude is a classic example of the media position (in this case Dem). I can’t remember how many times Dem talking heads referred to “low information” voters and non-college grads implicitly as stupid, misogynist ingrates who don’t know what’s best for them and then get offended at being called elitist.
(Digression – I don’t know where ya’ll are coming from but I think of someone who didn’t go to college I think of my dad who busted his ass so I could. Congrats to the 5% who won the lucky sperm club fighting the good fight against the more privileged 1% for us ungrateful unwashed scum)
But hordes of stinking blue collar workers did not flood the pools skewing the vote, the grads/non-grads vote was split 50/50, plenty of elitist pricks (oh, sorry, well-to-do, educated sophisticates) voted for Trump.
And no civil rights marches (as opposed to ’68) but there was still a backlash to what many perceived rightly as stagnation (and I strongly supported Obama).
That doesn’t make any money though. You can’t say the nicer blue collar folks (or previously “hard working Americans”) are frustrated by stagnation in the political process because all sides make more money over conflict. It might seem like I’m picking on the Dems here but Garrison Keillor was mentioned above and we all know the GOP is certainly going to make money out of a Trump Presidency.
The media makes money by conflict. Ideological conflict. Factual conflict, over say, economics, is boring and doesn’t make money. Or even if it does, it doesn’t make enough. You have to take time and money to do research when it comes to numbers.
Have your talking head start a statement with “I think….” and you don’t have to spend any time fact-checking.
And of course neither political party is interested in change, just conflict. The GOP calls for (laughably now) more unity. The Dems call for it (yet – Bernie who?). But the media absolutely defines it. Defined it as Buckley vs Vidal in ’68 and the formula gets perpetuated and reiterated. Not just on t.v. but anything that deviates from that now standard formula gets ignored unless it can’t be or gets shouted down, or there’s an ad hominim (because unity) and of course, we can’t have the other lizard getting in.
Actual civil discourse is resisted as is reception to ideas. Incivility is not only tolerated but encouraged. “Incivility rates” to quote Aaron Sorkin
But “Sorkin's response is just the kind of cliched thinking that makes TV boring” to quote Ann Coulter (CAUTION: Ann Coulter).
Buckley and Gore were models of erudition and wit, but only models. With all that word implies in terms of simulacra and polarizing effect (and body dimorphism, self-esteem and as role models).
Trump was an inevitability of the environment we allow ourselves to be in. Live in filth, you’re gonna catch a disease. And chances are you’ll get called out for leaving it by the people you most trust who will urge you to love the filth, because it helps you smear your enemies after all. But hate the disease.
So, yeah, how’d that work out for us?
I mean, people are talking 3rd term for Rahm Emanuel as Chicago Mayor (Laquan who? Rahm is going to fine people for dog poop, yay!). It’s never the systems fault, there’s always a scapegoat be it bad cops, the other candidate/party or the ever present third parties.
Without bipartisan campaign reform, publicly funded elections, ending electioneering ,
and reinstating the fairness doctrine, at the very least – we’re not going to get the political parties, candidates, conventions and election process we want.
I mean, you can argue Trump shouldn’t have won. But we all played by the rules of the political process - as they stood. We knew the rules going in. We keep this “but it’s our guy this time” shit up and don’t change the system, we’re going to get hosed at least some of the time and eventually terminally. Maybe this time. We’ll see.
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.” - JFK
TL;DR – the situation is even more fucked in the U.S. than it seems because the apparatus (plural) for discerning reality are invested in deceiving us. Yes, even by people you think are your friends.
posted by Smedleyman at 1:30 PM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
Lot of old paradigms that were useless the moment they were created still lurking in our infosphere. Look at the ’68 election and the Buckley vs Gore debates. Or rather, the perception and iterations of the Buckley-Vidal debates.
Two privileged extremists who didn’t like each other cast into the “conservative” and “liberal” voice of America. Wrong from the outset. Buckley defended Johnson, Daley, and Reagan (started as a strong-union Dem), Vidal championed attacking Buckley mostly.
What we remember, mostly, is Buckley calling Vial “queer” and Vidal calling him a “crypto-Nazi.”
But what was important was the media noticed they’d get better ratings by putting two talking heads on t.v. representing supposed positions rather than factually covering the actual ’68 conventions.
Plenty of people have noticed and commented in other threads on the historical similarities between ’68 Democrats and 2016 and Bernie Sanders, etc.
But that ain’t what happened, because coverage was focused on something other than reality. They didn’t get how someone could hate Trump because if you’re “conservative” you have to love the GOP candidate because we culturally impress bipolarity on our electorate.
Plenty of people who were New Deal dems voted for Reagan. We forgot that. But that’s by design. I’ve had plenty of people try to insult me by insulting Dick Cheney because I’m “conservative” I must love Bush-Cheney, amirite? And they “win” the “argument” and that’s apparently what the internet is for instead of actual discourse.
And to be clear, I don’t hold Buckley and Vidal harmless because t.v. is less relevant now.. They were pawns in pioneering this kind of “communication” but they were (more than) willing pawns.
As a result we live in two worlds with two different narratives that - beyond Orwell’s nightmare of constant triumph over the other side (which also shifts definition) – we actually PAY to participate in.
And naturally that fosters an appeal to the “uneducated.” Yes, the white working class people who voted for Reagan (and JFK or FRD if they’re that old) voted for Trump and so did their kids.
I love Garrison Keillor but his “Let the uneducated have their day” attitude is a classic example of the media position (in this case Dem). I can’t remember how many times Dem talking heads referred to “low information” voters and non-college grads implicitly as stupid, misogynist ingrates who don’t know what’s best for them and then get offended at being called elitist.
(Digression – I don’t know where ya’ll are coming from but I think of someone who didn’t go to college I think of my dad who busted his ass so I could. Congrats to the 5% who won the lucky sperm club fighting the good fight against the more privileged 1% for us ungrateful unwashed scum)
But hordes of stinking blue collar workers did not flood the pools skewing the vote, the grads/non-grads vote was split 50/50, plenty of elitist pricks (oh, sorry, well-to-do, educated sophisticates) voted for Trump.
And no civil rights marches (as opposed to ’68) but there was still a backlash to what many perceived rightly as stagnation (and I strongly supported Obama).
That doesn’t make any money though. You can’t say the nicer blue collar folks (or previously “hard working Americans”) are frustrated by stagnation in the political process because all sides make more money over conflict. It might seem like I’m picking on the Dems here but Garrison Keillor was mentioned above and we all know the GOP is certainly going to make money out of a Trump Presidency.
The media makes money by conflict. Ideological conflict. Factual conflict, over say, economics, is boring and doesn’t make money. Or even if it does, it doesn’t make enough. You have to take time and money to do research when it comes to numbers.
Have your talking head start a statement with “I think….” and you don’t have to spend any time fact-checking.
And of course neither political party is interested in change, just conflict. The GOP calls for (laughably now) more unity. The Dems call for it (yet – Bernie who?). But the media absolutely defines it. Defined it as Buckley vs Vidal in ’68 and the formula gets perpetuated and reiterated. Not just on t.v. but anything that deviates from that now standard formula gets ignored unless it can’t be or gets shouted down, or there’s an ad hominim (because unity) and of course, we can’t have the other lizard getting in.
Actual civil discourse is resisted as is reception to ideas. Incivility is not only tolerated but encouraged. “Incivility rates” to quote Aaron Sorkin
But “Sorkin's response is just the kind of cliched thinking that makes TV boring” to quote Ann Coulter (CAUTION: Ann Coulter).
Buckley and Gore were models of erudition and wit, but only models. With all that word implies in terms of simulacra and polarizing effect (and body dimorphism, self-esteem and as role models).
Trump was an inevitability of the environment we allow ourselves to be in. Live in filth, you’re gonna catch a disease. And chances are you’ll get called out for leaving it by the people you most trust who will urge you to love the filth, because it helps you smear your enemies after all. But hate the disease.
So, yeah, how’d that work out for us?
I mean, people are talking 3rd term for Rahm Emanuel as Chicago Mayor (Laquan who? Rahm is going to fine people for dog poop, yay!). It’s never the systems fault, there’s always a scapegoat be it bad cops, the other candidate/party or the ever present third parties.
Without bipartisan campaign reform, publicly funded elections, ending electioneering ,
and reinstating the fairness doctrine, at the very least – we’re not going to get the political parties, candidates, conventions and election process we want.
I mean, you can argue Trump shouldn’t have won. But we all played by the rules of the political process - as they stood. We knew the rules going in. We keep this “but it’s our guy this time” shit up and don’t change the system, we’re going to get hosed at least some of the time and eventually terminally. Maybe this time. We’ll see.
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.” - JFK
TL;DR – the situation is even more fucked in the U.S. than it seems because the apparatus (plural) for discerning reality are invested in deceiving us. Yes, even by people you think are your friends.
posted by Smedleyman at 1:30 PM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
It is too easy to say that the system is rigged, although it very well may be. In the end, Clinton ended up bringing a knife to a gunfight. While she raised campaign donations and spent money on media buys, the Republican party had the help of foreign powers, hackers, and extraterritorial organisations like WikiLeaks. It may have been Hilary Clinton against Donald Trump, but it was the White Male World against Hilary Clinton.
One nation, under Pepe.
Fantastic comment, nickrussell.
posted by tonycpsu at 1:31 PM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
One nation, under Pepe.
Fantastic comment, nickrussell.
posted by tonycpsu at 1:31 PM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
This is how the world's best cartoonists are reacting to the Trump victory.
posted by Rumple at 1:31 PM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Rumple at 1:31 PM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
I don't have the time or the patience to deal with "fuck the south" bullshit today. Especially after an election that defies simplistic regionalist stereotypes.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 1:33 PM on November 10, 2016 [13 favorites]
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 1:33 PM on November 10, 2016 [13 favorites]
sending out a list of progressive orgs to family who want to get me xmas gifts. donate or don't get me anything.
posted by ghostbikes at 1:34 PM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by ghostbikes at 1:34 PM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
WI, MI, and OH are not the only states Hillary lost by a close margin with (a) double-digit EVs and (b) a history of voting with Democrats under the Obama coalition. FL, and NC fit this description as well. Together, WI, MI, and OH are 44 EVs. Together, NC and FL are... 44 EVs. Every bit of voter outreach in those states is as valuable as the same amount of outreach in the midwest, except the message is more consistent with progressive goals, and not in opposition to it when it comes to taxation, income support, and the safety net in general, which the white midwestern voters say they don't want as they're cashing the checks.
Well, that's the flip side of the critique. The Clinton campaign could have chosen to shore up support from the Rust Belt, which was already shaky because of Trump's appeal to Reagan Democrats. Or the campaign could have mobilized more effort towards those southern states for 'traditional' progressive voters. Instead, she failed to attain as many votes from women and minorities as Obama did. (Though admittedly the latter was impacted by voter suppression, though right now who knows by how much.)
I'm harping on the Rust Belt not only did those voters not vote for her, they actively voted against her by voting for Trump. And this was something that many, Michael Moore et al., saw was coming, that Pennsylvania and the Rust Belt would be the new battleground states. Did anyone see that Trump would still be able to get a substantial amount of votes from (white) women? That was more unforeseen. If the Clinton campaign knew that was a potential threat, then sure, forget the Rust Belt, they should've done more to get those votes instead.
posted by Apocryphon at 1:35 PM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
Well, that's the flip side of the critique. The Clinton campaign could have chosen to shore up support from the Rust Belt, which was already shaky because of Trump's appeal to Reagan Democrats. Or the campaign could have mobilized more effort towards those southern states for 'traditional' progressive voters. Instead, she failed to attain as many votes from women and minorities as Obama did. (Though admittedly the latter was impacted by voter suppression, though right now who knows by how much.)
I'm harping on the Rust Belt not only did those voters not vote for her, they actively voted against her by voting for Trump. And this was something that many, Michael Moore et al., saw was coming, that Pennsylvania and the Rust Belt would be the new battleground states. Did anyone see that Trump would still be able to get a substantial amount of votes from (white) women? That was more unforeseen. If the Clinton campaign knew that was a potential threat, then sure, forget the Rust Belt, they should've done more to get those votes instead.
posted by Apocryphon at 1:35 PM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
Okay, so. I have an ACA health insurance plan. I'm trying to get a job that provides health insurance benefits, but right now I don't have that. Does anyone actually know what will happen if they do go ahead and "repeal and replace" Obamacare, realistically? Would the Obamacare coverage continue until whatever the replacement is goes into effect?
Short answer: It depends.
Longer answer: I think the 2017 plan year is relatively safe; I guess they could blow the ACA up in a massive Day 1 bonfire but even that would, maybe just maybe, if they don't destroy the fillibuster, get held up in the Senate for some amount of time. And there are always parliamentary tricks.
I do not think there is any plausibly affordable and comprehensive option for replacing the ACA being discussed. The current level of discourse I've heard from the GOP is at about the same mental level as "the Wall" is to actual immigration policy. So even if they do replace it, the 'what' they replace it with is not necessarily going to work at all.
The safe thing to do is to proceed like you would have and get a 2017 plan.
You might want to think about non-essential things that you needed to have done at some point -- knee surgery, etc. I hate to say it but there's no guarantee that the ACA will be here after 2017 and so if you rely on that, well, plan to do what you can this (next) year.
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:36 PM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
Short answer: It depends.
Longer answer: I think the 2017 plan year is relatively safe; I guess they could blow the ACA up in a massive Day 1 bonfire but even that would, maybe just maybe, if they don't destroy the fillibuster, get held up in the Senate for some amount of time. And there are always parliamentary tricks.
I do not think there is any plausibly affordable and comprehensive option for replacing the ACA being discussed. The current level of discourse I've heard from the GOP is at about the same mental level as "the Wall" is to actual immigration policy. So even if they do replace it, the 'what' they replace it with is not necessarily going to work at all.
The safe thing to do is to proceed like you would have and get a 2017 plan.
You might want to think about non-essential things that you needed to have done at some point -- knee surgery, etc. I hate to say it but there's no guarantee that the ACA will be here after 2017 and so if you rely on that, well, plan to do what you can this (next) year.
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:36 PM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
Here's Gingrich today backing off the "Mexico will pay for it" part, calling it a "great campaign device"
Shorter Newt: "Suckers!"
posted by Gelatin at 1:37 PM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
Shorter Newt: "Suckers!"
posted by Gelatin at 1:37 PM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
This is how the world's best cartoonists are reacting to the Trump victory.
Also: Australia's David Pope and Cathy Wilcox.
posted by acb at 1:37 PM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
Also: Australia's David Pope and Cathy Wilcox.
posted by acb at 1:37 PM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
Or the campaign could have mobilized more effort towards those southern states for 'traditional' progressive voters. Instead, she failed to attain as many votes from women and minorities as Obama did. (Though admittedly the latter was impacted by voter suppression, though right now who knows by how much.)
You're conflating effort and outcomes in this critique. Setting aside different costs of competing in different media markets and what-not, a dollar spent in the rust belt is the same as a dollar spent in other winnable states. The fact that she didn't get the votes in FL and NC is as you say not a clear picture, but we're talking about strategy here, not execution. She could have spent the resources in the rust belt and still failed to get the votes.
posted by tonycpsu at 1:39 PM on November 10, 2016
You're conflating effort and outcomes in this critique. Setting aside different costs of competing in different media markets and what-not, a dollar spent in the rust belt is the same as a dollar spent in other winnable states. The fact that she didn't get the votes in FL and NC is as you say not a clear picture, but we're talking about strategy here, not execution. She could have spent the resources in the rust belt and still failed to get the votes.
posted by tonycpsu at 1:39 PM on November 10, 2016
mochapickle: We need to include the disabled in those who are at risk.
Agreed. And anyone who is fighting a chronic illness, or who is otherwise dependent upon the ACA for insurance.
ian1977: Or those who may be disabled or infirm at some point in the future...which is virtually all of us really.
Absolutely. Didn't mean to imply that was a comprehensive list.
posted by zarq at 1:39 PM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
Agreed. And anyone who is fighting a chronic illness, or who is otherwise dependent upon the ACA for insurance.
ian1977: Or those who may be disabled or infirm at some point in the future...which is virtually all of us really.
Absolutely. Didn't mean to imply that was a comprehensive list.
posted by zarq at 1:39 PM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
If I have to guess what alternative to Obamacare they'll go with, it's health savings accounts. Which aren't very useful unless you're upper middle class+.
And have steady, predictable health expenses like medication or a chronic condition. An HSA can be wiped out in the blink of an eye by a life threatening crisis or serious illness.
None of which should be news to anyone in politics or the media, by the way. Again: Suckers!
posted by Gelatin at 1:41 PM on November 10, 2016
And have steady, predictable health expenses like medication or a chronic condition. An HSA can be wiped out in the blink of an eye by a life threatening crisis or serious illness.
None of which should be news to anyone in politics or the media, by the way. Again: Suckers!
posted by Gelatin at 1:41 PM on November 10, 2016
A friend of a friend posted this, from Rhodes College in Memphis (pricy private uni):
We didn't make it past Tuesday night before white students started harassing Muslim students at Rhodes with chants of "go back home" and "terrorist." Honor Code-signing Rhodes students - reducing several of their fellow students to tears with their unrepentant, virulent racism.posted by DirtyOldTown at 1:41 PM on November 10, 2016 [14 favorites]
Patrick Thornton has expanded on his tweets about rural and elite; it's pretty good.
I don't know anyone in the city who isn't either from a rural area or has vacationed in rural areas many times. When I lived in a very rural area, I did, however, meet plenty of people who had never been to the nearest city. I met people who, when mentioning I was taking a weekend break there with my husband, asked in all seriousness if I wasn't afraid of getting shot.
This lionizing of rural midwestern America as the only home of true American values is 100% code for "white culture is the truest, best culture." When the words "Heartland America" are uttered, no one is picturing a black farmer in Mississippi, they are picturing corn-fed white children running through fields of wildflowers on the prairie.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:44 PM on November 10, 2016 [63 favorites]
I don't know anyone in the city who isn't either from a rural area or has vacationed in rural areas many times. When I lived in a very rural area, I did, however, meet plenty of people who had never been to the nearest city. I met people who, when mentioning I was taking a weekend break there with my husband, asked in all seriousness if I wasn't afraid of getting shot.
This lionizing of rural midwestern America as the only home of true American values is 100% code for "white culture is the truest, best culture." When the words "Heartland America" are uttered, no one is picturing a black farmer in Mississippi, they are picturing corn-fed white children running through fields of wildflowers on the prairie.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:44 PM on November 10, 2016 [63 favorites]
Donald Trump Will Be President. This Is What We Do Next by Jon Schwarz
I found that piece slightly miss-guided in one or maybe two places, but this quote is nice :
``As Bernie Sanders put it this spring, Obama’s “biggest mistake” was organizing a huge grassroots army and then telling all those loyal followers, “Thank you very much for electing me, I’ll take it from here.”
Obama had one of the powerful political organizations ever assembled in U.S. history, and he just disbanded it. According to one of Obama’s top organizers, he saw it “as a tiger you can’t control.” This unquestionably contributed to the current Republican dominance of Congress, and now most of his presidency may be washed away like a sandcastle.''
posted by jeffburdges at 1:45 PM on November 10, 2016 [10 favorites]
I found that piece slightly miss-guided in one or maybe two places, but this quote is nice :
``As Bernie Sanders put it this spring, Obama’s “biggest mistake” was organizing a huge grassroots army and then telling all those loyal followers, “Thank you very much for electing me, I’ll take it from here.”
Obama had one of the powerful political organizations ever assembled in U.S. history, and he just disbanded it. According to one of Obama’s top organizers, he saw it “as a tiger you can’t control.” This unquestionably contributed to the current Republican dominance of Congress, and now most of his presidency may be washed away like a sandcastle.''
posted by jeffburdges at 1:45 PM on November 10, 2016 [10 favorites]
Keep those encryption resources coming people. And lists of responsive progressive orgs.The IVPN privacy guides are excellent.
posted by Coventry at 1:45 PM on November 10, 2016
Obama had one of the powerful political organizations ever assembled in U.S. history, and he just disbanded it. According to one of Obama’s top organizers, he saw it “as a tiger you can’t control.” This unquestionably contributed to the current Republican dominance of Congress, and now most of his presidency may be washed away like a sandcastle.''
yea totally agree.
posted by zutalors! at 1:47 PM on November 10, 2016 [10 favorites]
CNN's got a source saying that Trump wants Bannon for Chief of Staff.
There were some initial reports that it could be Priebus, which would at least put a professional semi-rational face on the administration. I'm guessing someone from the semi-rational wing of the party started that rumor in the hope it might come true. Bannon is straight up terrifying; he's the guy who complained, according to his ex-wife anyway, that there were too many Jews at his kids' school and did a radio interview where he called progressive women a homophobic slur.
posted by zachlipton at 1:49 PM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
There were some initial reports that it could be Priebus, which would at least put a professional semi-rational face on the administration. I'm guessing someone from the semi-rational wing of the party started that rumor in the hope it might come true. Bannon is straight up terrifying; he's the guy who complained, according to his ex-wife anyway, that there were too many Jews at his kids' school and did a radio interview where he called progressive women a homophobic slur.
posted by zachlipton at 1:49 PM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
Being a Girl Scout isn't going to prevent people from losing rights. Because, from where I'm standing, people are going to lose some rights.
posted by Sphinx at 1:51 PM on November 10, 2016
posted by Sphinx at 1:51 PM on November 10, 2016
The fact that she didn't get the votes in FL and NC is as you say not a clear picture, but we're talking about strategy here, not execution.
Fair enough. Then I judge her campaign by its execution, not its strategy. Especially when they had the resources and personnel to do so, compared to the opposing team.
On the subject of outreach to women and minorities, lower votes compared to Obama is also startling. In these liberal circles it's a no-brainer, self-evident to oppose Trump for his actions and stances towards women, towards minorities, towards immigrants and those of other religions in general. All of this emphasized by his fan club, some of whom go further than he does. And yet, casting this as a straightforward existential fight against the Republic of Gilead, as a moral crusade against a new type of fascism and nativism, simply did not get the numbers from those groups that Obama did. Was voter suppression really that pervasive? How come there wasn't a massive mobilization of the groups that would be worst hit by Trump's policies? Why?
I recognize that this angle is completely invalidated if further analysis reveals that she did indeed get as many or more votes from minority groups, or that not as many white women voted for Trump as reported. Or that the exit polls were totally bogus.
posted by Apocryphon at 1:51 PM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
Fair enough. Then I judge her campaign by its execution, not its strategy. Especially when they had the resources and personnel to do so, compared to the opposing team.
On the subject of outreach to women and minorities, lower votes compared to Obama is also startling. In these liberal circles it's a no-brainer, self-evident to oppose Trump for his actions and stances towards women, towards minorities, towards immigrants and those of other religions in general. All of this emphasized by his fan club, some of whom go further than he does. And yet, casting this as a straightforward existential fight against the Republic of Gilead, as a moral crusade against a new type of fascism and nativism, simply did not get the numbers from those groups that Obama did. Was voter suppression really that pervasive? How come there wasn't a massive mobilization of the groups that would be worst hit by Trump's policies? Why?
I recognize that this angle is completely invalidated if further analysis reveals that she did indeed get as many or more votes from minority groups, or that not as many white women voted for Trump as reported. Or that the exit polls were totally bogus.
posted by Apocryphon at 1:51 PM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
Here's a prediction: at some point the Trump administration will announce, or otherwise let it be known, that they have eliminated the threat of Sharia Law superseding American civil law. Easily done, since such a threat never existed.
We should make a list (if I haven't missed one above) of fake achievements Trump might claim during or after his presidency, given both his capacity for lying and the abyssal and Stygian depths of absurd right-wing conspiracy theory he has shown such versatility in exploiting.
posted by XMLicious at 1:52 PM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
We should make a list (if I haven't missed one above) of fake achievements Trump might claim during or after his presidency, given both his capacity for lying and the abyssal and Stygian depths of absurd right-wing conspiracy theory he has shown such versatility in exploiting.
posted by XMLicious at 1:52 PM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
Trump also boasted of how long their meeting had been. He said it was scheduled for ten minutes but lasted for an hour and a half, and could have gone on much longer.
According to Politico, one of the first things Trump said publicly in the Oval Office was a lie:
According to Politico, one of the first things Trump said publicly in the Oval Office was a lie:
Then he started his remarks with something that was not true: “This was a meeting that was going to last for maybe 10 or 15 minutes,” Trump said.posted by zachlipton at 1:55 PM on November 10, 2016 [22 favorites]
The meeting had been scheduled to last an hour. The reporters brought into the Oval Office at the end were told long before not to even assemble for the brief access at its end until the meeting would have been going on for 30 minutes.
Fair enough. Then I judge her campaign by its execution, not its strategy.
And I'm with you on that. However...
Especially when they had the resources and personnel to do so, compared to the opposing team.
I don't think this is the case considering the compelling evidence of many non-monetary advantages Trump had throughout the election, including the media advantage Scott Lemieux talks about in this post and the compelling case nickrussell makes above about how much easier Trump's path was because of lowered expectations.
When you account for these differences, it's not clear that Hillary coughed up an easy win. Dollars don't vote.
posted by tonycpsu at 1:56 PM on November 10, 2016
And I'm with you on that. However...
Especially when they had the resources and personnel to do so, compared to the opposing team.
I don't think this is the case considering the compelling evidence of many non-monetary advantages Trump had throughout the election, including the media advantage Scott Lemieux talks about in this post and the compelling case nickrussell makes above about how much easier Trump's path was because of lowered expectations.
When you account for these differences, it's not clear that Hillary coughed up an easy win. Dollars don't vote.
posted by tonycpsu at 1:56 PM on November 10, 2016
I don't want to listen to or understand Trump voters. I'd rather listen to Sanders people's ideas on how to reform the Democratic Party. I liked what they advanced for the platform and appreciate changes that need to be made in leadership. We need all those Democrats in Congress fighting for us and based on the 2000s I'm not sure they will.
posted by zutalors! at 1:57 PM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by zutalors! at 1:57 PM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm a woman, a Muslim, and an immigrant. I voted for Trump. (WaPo)
A lot is being said now about the “silent secret Trump supporters.”posted by Rumple at 1:57 PM on November 10, 2016
This is my confession — and explanation: I — a 51-year-old, a Muslim, an immigrant woman “of color” — am one of those silent voters for Donald Trump. And I’m not a “bigot,” “racist,” “chauvinist” or “white supremacist,” as Trump voters are being called, nor part of some “whitelash.”
In the winter of 2008, as a lifelong liberal and proud daughter of West Virginia, a state born on the correct side of history on slavery, I moved to historically conservative Virginia only because the state had helped elect Barack Obama as the first African American president of the United States.
But, then, for much of this past year, I have kept my electoral preference secret: I was leaning toward Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump.
Obama had one of the powerful political organizations ever assembled in U.S. history, and he just disbanded it. According to one of Obama’s top organizers, he saw it “as a tiger you can’t control.” This unquestionably contributed to the current Republican dominance of Congress, and now most of his presidency may be washed away like a sandcastle.''
Here's the weird thing, though -- OFA still technically exists, at least a little. Someone, somewhere is still updating their FB and Twitter (although their website doesn't seem to have been updated since April). The data is all still there.
How hard could it be, do you think, to unmothball it and turn it into a functioning organization again, after inauguration? A lot of people would follow President Obama into whatever firefight he chooses to lead us into.
posted by anastasiav at 1:59 PM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
Here's the weird thing, though -- OFA still technically exists, at least a little. Someone, somewhere is still updating their FB and Twitter (although their website doesn't seem to have been updated since April). The data is all still there.
How hard could it be, do you think, to unmothball it and turn it into a functioning organization again, after inauguration? A lot of people would follow President Obama into whatever firefight he chooses to lead us into.
posted by anastasiav at 1:59 PM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
Australia's first female Prime Minister Julia Gillard really had a rough time with misogyny. One day in parliament, she just had enough and went on a 15 minute rant at the vile Tony Abbott, who was then in opposition.
Shorter hi-light reel with explanatory commentary.
Now he's looking at his watch because a WOMAN HAS TALKED TOO LONG!
If you want to see a strong female leader tell a stupid caveman that she won't put up with his shit, have a look.
posted by adept256 at 1:59 PM on November 10, 2016 [8 favorites]
Shorter hi-light reel with explanatory commentary.
Now he's looking at his watch because a WOMAN HAS TALKED TOO LONG!
If you want to see a strong female leader tell a stupid caveman that she won't put up with his shit, have a look.
posted by adept256 at 1:59 PM on November 10, 2016 [8 favorites]
Republicans are honestly kind of fucked. They have a caucus of burn the whole thing down assholes in the house that are basically unmanageable. They have a bunch of status quo loving assholes in the senate who like their power and prestige and don't want to surrender their power to the house. And they have a president in the white house who is unpredictable and largely incompetent.
Scalia will no doubt get replaced with an asshole in what is no doubt one of the slimiest moves in modern history.
Gay Marriage will probably be safe because they know it's a losing issue.
Obamacare will probably be partially dismantled because some parts of it are really popular such as preventing Insurance companies from rejecting you based on prior illnesses. Republicans in general might not like a lot of the ACA but they also know that if they fuck too much with it they are going to feel a big backlash.
The "Wall" will be just some increased funding for border control because nobody will actually want to pay for a big ass wall in the sonoran desert and illegal immigration is increasingly bypassing the southern border anyway.
Republicans will fail on any sort of immigration reform because the business block wants a path to citizenship model and the nativist block is unwilling to compromise.
Most of the US government will basically continue on auto-pilot because that's what it does everytime. Any attempts at major entitlement reform are doomed to failure because it would be insanely unpopular to fuck with SS or Medicare/Medicaid and Republicans know that fucking with either one based upon a narrow electoral college victory would be suicide.
So long story short incrementalism is going to limit their ability to do too much damage. Yes there will be a lot of people hurt by this but they are not going to be able to undo the New Deal. St Reagan tried and failed and Trump and the incompetent people around him will fail as well.
posted by vuron at 2:00 PM on November 10, 2016 [7 favorites]
Scalia will no doubt get replaced with an asshole in what is no doubt one of the slimiest moves in modern history.
Gay Marriage will probably be safe because they know it's a losing issue.
Obamacare will probably be partially dismantled because some parts of it are really popular such as preventing Insurance companies from rejecting you based on prior illnesses. Republicans in general might not like a lot of the ACA but they also know that if they fuck too much with it they are going to feel a big backlash.
The "Wall" will be just some increased funding for border control because nobody will actually want to pay for a big ass wall in the sonoran desert and illegal immigration is increasingly bypassing the southern border anyway.
Republicans will fail on any sort of immigration reform because the business block wants a path to citizenship model and the nativist block is unwilling to compromise.
Most of the US government will basically continue on auto-pilot because that's what it does everytime. Any attempts at major entitlement reform are doomed to failure because it would be insanely unpopular to fuck with SS or Medicare/Medicaid and Republicans know that fucking with either one based upon a narrow electoral college victory would be suicide.
So long story short incrementalism is going to limit their ability to do too much damage. Yes there will be a lot of people hurt by this but they are not going to be able to undo the New Deal. St Reagan tried and failed and Trump and the incompetent people around him will fail as well.
posted by vuron at 2:00 PM on November 10, 2016 [7 favorites]
So what I am seeing in my social media feeds is a whole lot of business as usual, oh well, let's get back to normal, etc. etc.
This is hard to reconcile with my personal feeling that this is one of the worst things to happen to the United States in its entire history. I am legitimately afraid that this is the beginning of the end for the U.S.
But apparently this, too, shall normalize. The vast majority of (white) people are just going to fall in line and read their People magazine with that shiny photo of Prez Trump on it, and say, "oh, it won't be that bad."
posted by Gaz Errant at 2:00 PM on November 10, 2016 [37 favorites]
This is hard to reconcile with my personal feeling that this is one of the worst things to happen to the United States in its entire history. I am legitimately afraid that this is the beginning of the end for the U.S.
But apparently this, too, shall normalize. The vast majority of (white) people are just going to fall in line and read their People magazine with that shiny photo of Prez Trump on it, and say, "oh, it won't be that bad."
posted by Gaz Errant at 2:00 PM on November 10, 2016 [37 favorites]
Gaz, you and I are in exactly the same place. I am afraid to raise my sons here.
posted by waitingtoderail at 2:02 PM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by waitingtoderail at 2:02 PM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
As with any complex social phenomena, the election results are likely to be caused by several independent variables across different demographic groups. Also trying to game the EC votes by focusing on a few key states has proven to be a weak strategy for Democrats, both in the Presidential race and down-ticket. We're blind men groping an elephant here and shouting, "it's a rope, it's a snake, it's a tree!"
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 2:03 PM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 2:03 PM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
On the morning after the election, the local tv news channel carried the results, mentioned the surprise, and played a couple clips and then segued into discussing the bigger space between the triangles in chocolate lover's Toblerone bars in approximately the same level of importance and concern. Yeah, a lot of white America will be back to business as usual, so keep your voice down if your getting attacked, they're busy too you know and don't have time to be disturbed.
posted by gusottertrout at 2:04 PM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by gusottertrout at 2:04 PM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
I think there's hope Trump will be too lazy or not actually care enough to follow through on a lot of his shitty promises.
But if he goes through his plan to require Muslims to be registered, maybe a whole lot of us should consider registering as Muslims for government purposes (even if we attend Christian churches or none at all).
Seriously, any Muslim MeFites have an opinion about whether something like that would be a good idea? I like the idea of some way of trying to gum up the works and say 'Screw you, Donald, we're all Americans,' but I don't like the idea of claiming to be one of you when I'm not, especially since I know it's unlikely I'd really be putting myself in the kind of danger you might be facing.
posted by straight at 2:05 PM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
But if he goes through his plan to require Muslims to be registered, maybe a whole lot of us should consider registering as Muslims for government purposes (even if we attend Christian churches or none at all).
Seriously, any Muslim MeFites have an opinion about whether something like that would be a good idea? I like the idea of some way of trying to gum up the works and say 'Screw you, Donald, we're all Americans,' but I don't like the idea of claiming to be one of you when I'm not, especially since I know it's unlikely I'd really be putting myself in the kind of danger you might be facing.
posted by straight at 2:05 PM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
reposting because it got buried in the end of the last thread. holy CRAP these things move fast: I'm going to attempt to keep this kind of short, and i'm going to try to keep it as civil as possible.
I went out tuesday expecting it to be like 2012. We'd drink a few beers, have a ~zany~ drunkish moment of "haha woahh sure is a nailbiter!" and go home. We bar hopped a bit, and every place i stopped in he was always ahead. But every person i ran in to, and my friends, were constantly like "no calm down he CANT win they just haven't counted it up yet" until... Well.
I ended up sitting on the ground outside a bar crying on the phone with my brown mom. We were both hammered as fuck at this point. We debated ditching our lives in the city and moving back to the rez, and various other escape strategies. But it felt really hollow.
What i was prepared for was getting up on wednesday morning knowing we had a long fight ahead of us if half the country would vote for an empty shell of a person going "but racism, and misogyny too ;)". After said phone call, i proceeded to get so hammered that i left my debit card at the bar and woke up to my dad at the door of my place going "get the fuck up and go to work, you need money for the apocalypse" and offering a ride. I googled it 5 or 6 times, in complete fucking disbelief.
I ended up having to leave work early because i had a panic attack at my desk. I spent the entire night laying on a friends couch(who is a queer WOC) as we commiserated about how fucking fucked this is. Half bouncing off possible consequences and outcomes to get them out of our heads and blow off steam, and half because... well.
I've struggled with how to articulate this for the past almost 48 hours now. But i don't feel like i actually know what the fuck this place is anymore. I was already feeling that way when that many people were down with the assclown beforehand, but now that he won? Now that people are already getting their hijabs ripped off, being assaulted, a random shooting or two has happened(IN LESS THAN TWO DAYS), the DAPL thing... It's like these people were eager and waiting to act out on how they really felt.
Living in seattle, and being in the metafilter bubble i really thought we were getting better than this. Were there still plenty of boys-will-be-boys assholes and racists? Sure! And there were way more than the average progressive white person thought too! But what this tells me is that most white people, including most white women(insert lol-white-feminism dig) are racist, misogynistic assholes who would sell their own ass to satan just to make sure someone they don't like doesn't get a chance.
How do you recover from that realization? What do you even do? How do you move forward from there believing that you can fix that?
I'm not saying i'm unwilling to try, and i'm not saying i'm not going to fight. I'm ready to organize, because fuck this. I'm ready to get out there in the street and punch some nazis, or sit in city council meetings to make sure the newly empowered fuckers don't think they can moonwalk in, whatever it takes. My coworker, a former social worker who went into IT, is organizing a large recurring food drive under the assumption social services are about to get hosed. I've joined, or been added to a lot of community/organizing online groups that rapidly popped up.
But seriously, what do you do with that information? I've never been this gutted by finding something out ever. This is like 1000x finding out my grandpa was a sexual abuser, or a close friend was a rapist, or anything like that. My mom always told me she moved away from the rural town she grew up in to get away from these assholes, and i genuinely thought they were on the decline. Now the fuck what?
If anybody missed it, the Dakota Access pipeline operators chose yesterday to bury the news that they're going to go ahead with drilling under the Missouri river, with the project due to start within two weeks.
This is fucked, and this has been a huge issue for me for months. It's a direct assault on tribal sovereignty. But, and i hate to say it, trump is jumping straight on that train. I, unlike some here, do really believe this stupid wall will be built. Whats a couple billion dollars? It'll get rammed through, and they'll at least start building it even if it gets stopped later after the end of his first term. And yes, i do believe after everything i've seen with DAPL that they're going to just roll right out there onto tribal land and build that section.
in some ways I find the expressions of idiot joy from the assholes who actually wanted Trump to win less irritating than the I-told-you-soing from our friends on the lefty-left who are thrilled to see "neo-liberalism" die while extreme-rightism is bouncing around full of spit and energy right behind them
Honestly yea, it annoys me. But it doesn't annoy me as much as the months and MONTHS of "yea he's bad but hillary clinton is a warmongering system toadie who *insert partial truth and some republican lies* who will bomb brown children!" from mostly progressive white dudes, to a lesser extent progressive white women, and a vanishingly few POC.
Looking over my facebook, ig, etc in the past few days the narrative was almost entirely white people talking about how sus she was and how you shouldn't do it, and brown people saying "do this for the good of the country and she's actually not that bad", or at the very least the first part. A few even called it out as a some variety of faux-lefty bullshit to not.
It's been said in this thread before, but who do you think saw that GIGANTIC TORRENT of diarrhea slurry from the right, AND the fairly huge one from the left(especially the ~hard~ left) against her, from everyone between cuckservatives and communists? What does that look like, if you're undecided or a skeptical right(or left!) voter? Most of the left is saying trump is bad, and a bit of the right is. But ALL of the right is saying clinton is bad, and a lot of the online left is too. Hell, it drove people in to secret hillary groups.
The media is to blame here too, but i don't know how i can look a lot of these piece of shit jill stein voting honkies who posted this stuff for MONTHS in the eye now. I'm not blaming this on third party voters, no, i'm placing at least some of the blame here on "leftists" who repeated the same bullshit about clinton and played the "both sides" game to seem woke.
At the very least, most of the internet groups i'm in aren't as shit as i thought because they shut the fuck up with that and are working on organizing now. But yea, i've seen a bit of the smug-fuck-neoliberalism.
But i couldn't stop chuckling, one of the only dark chuckles i got, at some of those fucks. "Ok, you broke the system, congratulations. Now what?". I also, and i'm trying to work through it, have SO little sympathy for the super duper smug lefty dudes who kept telling me "it's not like he can win anyways, he's a fake candidate, focus on how bad she is/will be".
That rhetoric doesn't go nowhere, and it didn't effect nothing. Own what you contributed to and helped achieve, shitty leftists. Especially shitty WHITE leftists in blue areas. The internet is not a neighborhood bar.
posted by emptythought at 2:06 PM on November 10, 2016 [54 favorites]
I went out tuesday expecting it to be like 2012. We'd drink a few beers, have a ~zany~ drunkish moment of "haha woahh sure is a nailbiter!" and go home. We bar hopped a bit, and every place i stopped in he was always ahead. But every person i ran in to, and my friends, were constantly like "no calm down he CANT win they just haven't counted it up yet" until... Well.
I ended up sitting on the ground outside a bar crying on the phone with my brown mom. We were both hammered as fuck at this point. We debated ditching our lives in the city and moving back to the rez, and various other escape strategies. But it felt really hollow.
What i was prepared for was getting up on wednesday morning knowing we had a long fight ahead of us if half the country would vote for an empty shell of a person going "but racism, and misogyny too ;)". After said phone call, i proceeded to get so hammered that i left my debit card at the bar and woke up to my dad at the door of my place going "get the fuck up and go to work, you need money for the apocalypse" and offering a ride. I googled it 5 or 6 times, in complete fucking disbelief.
I ended up having to leave work early because i had a panic attack at my desk. I spent the entire night laying on a friends couch(who is a queer WOC) as we commiserated about how fucking fucked this is. Half bouncing off possible consequences and outcomes to get them out of our heads and blow off steam, and half because... well.
I've struggled with how to articulate this for the past almost 48 hours now. But i don't feel like i actually know what the fuck this place is anymore. I was already feeling that way when that many people were down with the assclown beforehand, but now that he won? Now that people are already getting their hijabs ripped off, being assaulted, a random shooting or two has happened(IN LESS THAN TWO DAYS), the DAPL thing... It's like these people were eager and waiting to act out on how they really felt.
Living in seattle, and being in the metafilter bubble i really thought we were getting better than this. Were there still plenty of boys-will-be-boys assholes and racists? Sure! And there were way more than the average progressive white person thought too! But what this tells me is that most white people, including most white women(insert lol-white-feminism dig) are racist, misogynistic assholes who would sell their own ass to satan just to make sure someone they don't like doesn't get a chance.
How do you recover from that realization? What do you even do? How do you move forward from there believing that you can fix that?
I'm not saying i'm unwilling to try, and i'm not saying i'm not going to fight. I'm ready to organize, because fuck this. I'm ready to get out there in the street and punch some nazis, or sit in city council meetings to make sure the newly empowered fuckers don't think they can moonwalk in, whatever it takes. My coworker, a former social worker who went into IT, is organizing a large recurring food drive under the assumption social services are about to get hosed. I've joined, or been added to a lot of community/organizing online groups that rapidly popped up.
But seriously, what do you do with that information? I've never been this gutted by finding something out ever. This is like 1000x finding out my grandpa was a sexual abuser, or a close friend was a rapist, or anything like that. My mom always told me she moved away from the rural town she grew up in to get away from these assholes, and i genuinely thought they were on the decline. Now the fuck what?
If anybody missed it, the Dakota Access pipeline operators chose yesterday to bury the news that they're going to go ahead with drilling under the Missouri river, with the project due to start within two weeks.
This is fucked, and this has been a huge issue for me for months. It's a direct assault on tribal sovereignty. But, and i hate to say it, trump is jumping straight on that train. I, unlike some here, do really believe this stupid wall will be built. Whats a couple billion dollars? It'll get rammed through, and they'll at least start building it even if it gets stopped later after the end of his first term. And yes, i do believe after everything i've seen with DAPL that they're going to just roll right out there onto tribal land and build that section.
in some ways I find the expressions of idiot joy from the assholes who actually wanted Trump to win less irritating than the I-told-you-soing from our friends on the lefty-left who are thrilled to see "neo-liberalism" die while extreme-rightism is bouncing around full of spit and energy right behind them
Honestly yea, it annoys me. But it doesn't annoy me as much as the months and MONTHS of "yea he's bad but hillary clinton is a warmongering system toadie who *insert partial truth and some republican lies* who will bomb brown children!" from mostly progressive white dudes, to a lesser extent progressive white women, and a vanishingly few POC.
Looking over my facebook, ig, etc in the past few days the narrative was almost entirely white people talking about how sus she was and how you shouldn't do it, and brown people saying "do this for the good of the country and she's actually not that bad", or at the very least the first part. A few even called it out as a some variety of faux-lefty bullshit to not.
It's been said in this thread before, but who do you think saw that GIGANTIC TORRENT of diarrhea slurry from the right, AND the fairly huge one from the left(especially the ~hard~ left) against her, from everyone between cuckservatives and communists? What does that look like, if you're undecided or a skeptical right(or left!) voter? Most of the left is saying trump is bad, and a bit of the right is. But ALL of the right is saying clinton is bad, and a lot of the online left is too. Hell, it drove people in to secret hillary groups.
The media is to blame here too, but i don't know how i can look a lot of these piece of shit jill stein voting honkies who posted this stuff for MONTHS in the eye now. I'm not blaming this on third party voters, no, i'm placing at least some of the blame here on "leftists" who repeated the same bullshit about clinton and played the "both sides" game to seem woke.
At the very least, most of the internet groups i'm in aren't as shit as i thought because they shut the fuck up with that and are working on organizing now. But yea, i've seen a bit of the smug-fuck-neoliberalism.
But i couldn't stop chuckling, one of the only dark chuckles i got, at some of those fucks. "Ok, you broke the system, congratulations. Now what?". I also, and i'm trying to work through it, have SO little sympathy for the super duper smug lefty dudes who kept telling me "it's not like he can win anyways, he's a fake candidate, focus on how bad she is/will be".
That rhetoric doesn't go nowhere, and it didn't effect nothing. Own what you contributed to and helped achieve, shitty leftists. Especially shitty WHITE leftists in blue areas. The internet is not a neighborhood bar.
posted by emptythought at 2:06 PM on November 10, 2016 [54 favorites]
they are not going to be able to undo the New Deal. St Reagan tried and failed and Trump and the incompetent people around him will fail as well.
Reagan never had both houses of Congress; the previous time the Republicans had this was before the New Deal. Unless the current crop of Congresscritters is literally a mob of whooping, hollering drunks, they can do a lot.
As for gay marriage and Roe vs. Wade, that'd take a Supreme Court case, and chances are they'll be able to stack it with 2-3 like-minded reactionaries.
posted by acb at 2:07 PM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
Reagan never had both houses of Congress; the previous time the Republicans had this was before the New Deal. Unless the current crop of Congresscritters is literally a mob of whooping, hollering drunks, they can do a lot.
As for gay marriage and Roe vs. Wade, that'd take a Supreme Court case, and chances are they'll be able to stack it with 2-3 like-minded reactionaries.
posted by acb at 2:07 PM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
I am legitimately afraid that this is the beginning of the end for the U.S.
Reagan slammed the accelerator to the floor, Bush II wedged a cinderblock on top of it, Obama deftly slalomed through the obstacles, but Trump is about to steer us off the giant cliff, holding hands with the GOP, who is sitting in the passenger seat. There is no freeze-frame, unfortunately.
posted by entropicamericana at 2:07 PM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
Reagan slammed the accelerator to the floor, Bush II wedged a cinderblock on top of it, Obama deftly slalomed through the obstacles, but Trump is about to steer us off the giant cliff, holding hands with the GOP, who is sitting in the passenger seat. There is no freeze-frame, unfortunately.
posted by entropicamericana at 2:07 PM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
Also from that Jon Schwarz article in The Intercept linked by jeffburdges above:
8. Be good to yourself and everyone else.posted by Sonny Jim at 2:09 PM on November 10, 2016 [7 favorites]
Liberals, leftists and sundry have real and profound differences. But for the foreseeable future we must hang together or we will surely hang separately, metaphorically or otherwise.
Since we’re stuck with each other, let’s be kind. In a country engineered to treat everyone horrendously every day, demonstrating that we extend real respect to one another might even be a winning recruitment strategy.
So what I am seeing in my social media feeds is a whole lot of business as usual, oh well, let's get back to normal, etc. etc.
Yeah. Which is ultimately why this shit keeps happening. Straight, non-disabled white people are Basically OK and will continue to be Basically OK barring some huge personal tragedy. Where by "Basically OK" I mean "not justifiably afraid of being rounded up into camps or placed on some kind of fucked-up X-Men-style registry".
Obviously, lots of straight, non-disabled white people have problems. Joblessness, rising costs of housing, etc., etc. And all of those problems will get worse under Trump. But they don't have the same kind of immediate, pressing fear of persecution that everybody else has. So, NBD, life goes on for them.
posted by tobascodagama at 2:12 PM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
Yeah. Which is ultimately why this shit keeps happening. Straight, non-disabled white people are Basically OK and will continue to be Basically OK barring some huge personal tragedy. Where by "Basically OK" I mean "not justifiably afraid of being rounded up into camps or placed on some kind of fucked-up X-Men-style registry".
Obviously, lots of straight, non-disabled white people have problems. Joblessness, rising costs of housing, etc., etc. And all of those problems will get worse under Trump. But they don't have the same kind of immediate, pressing fear of persecution that everybody else has. So, NBD, life goes on for them.
posted by tobascodagama at 2:12 PM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
I'm a woman, a Muslim, and an immigrant. I voted for Trump. (WaPo)
It's quite possible that many of those minorities/women who voted for Trump, or voted third party, or didn't bother to vote at all, aren't all that different from this Muslim immigrant woman. It's the "he can't possibly mean the worst of what he says", "he's just saying what plays well to his core base."
posted by Apocryphon at 2:13 PM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
It's quite possible that many of those minorities/women who voted for Trump, or voted third party, or didn't bother to vote at all, aren't all that different from this Muslim immigrant woman. It's the "he can't possibly mean the worst of what he says", "he's just saying what plays well to his core base."
posted by Apocryphon at 2:13 PM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
Are we allowed to take solace in the fact that Trump is, per Fox News, very anti-TPP? Stopped clocks, twice a day, and so on?
posted by emjaybee at 2:13 PM on November 10, 2016
posted by emjaybee at 2:13 PM on November 10, 2016
Nazi propaganda/spray paint in Massachusetts
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:13 PM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:13 PM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
Jill Stein weighs in
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:15 PM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:15 PM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
Gay Marriage will probably be safe because they know it's a losing issue.
The Supreme Court effectively reversed itself on capital punishment in under a decade.
I'm a broken record on this but the marriage thing was a bait and switch. Same-gender marriage didn't exist except for a few clerical stunts in the United States at the time that Republicans forced bans through statehouses. The marriage acts were about legalized discrimination, and a government interest to promote heterosexual marriage was the legal doctrine they relied on in order to litigate against piecemeal rights. To use a notorious example, the doctrine was used to deny hospital visitation because recognizing power of attorney was equivalent to recognizing a benefit of marriage, and that was forbidden under Florida law.
Now, it's unlikely that the courts will entertain an interest to promote heterosexual marriage argument immediately. They probably will entertain a religious liberty argument. And that might give Republicans what they've really wanted: freedom to discriminate.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 2:16 PM on November 10, 2016 [7 favorites]
The Supreme Court effectively reversed itself on capital punishment in under a decade.
I'm a broken record on this but the marriage thing was a bait and switch. Same-gender marriage didn't exist except for a few clerical stunts in the United States at the time that Republicans forced bans through statehouses. The marriage acts were about legalized discrimination, and a government interest to promote heterosexual marriage was the legal doctrine they relied on in order to litigate against piecemeal rights. To use a notorious example, the doctrine was used to deny hospital visitation because recognizing power of attorney was equivalent to recognizing a benefit of marriage, and that was forbidden under Florida law.
Now, it's unlikely that the courts will entertain an interest to promote heterosexual marriage argument immediately. They probably will entertain a religious liberty argument. And that might give Republicans what they've really wanted: freedom to discriminate.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 2:16 PM on November 10, 2016 [7 favorites]
If anybody missed it, the Dakota Access pipeline operators chose yesterday to bury the news that they're going to go ahead with drilling under the Missouri river, with the project due to start within two weeks.
Oh. I did miss this, and I think a lot of the people I know that care about the DAPL did too. Thanks for mentioning.
I guess this is really what we have to look forward to, more than anything. More industries fucking over people of color with no chance of regulation, and the general populace not even noticing (Flint still does not have clean water).
posted by dinty_moore at 2:17 PM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
Oh. I did miss this, and I think a lot of the people I know that care about the DAPL did too. Thanks for mentioning.
I guess this is really what we have to look forward to, more than anything. More industries fucking over people of color with no chance of regulation, and the general populace not even noticing (Flint still does not have clean water).
posted by dinty_moore at 2:17 PM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
Go with God but go, Jill.
posted by ocschwar at 2:18 PM on November 10, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by ocschwar at 2:18 PM on November 10, 2016 [9 favorites]
@ShaunKing #Charlotte "@dakotainthecity
I found this under my windshield wiper at my own house. I'm in disbelief"
"Hey N----r. Pick that up. Keep my streets clean," said the emboldened white Trump supporter to this Black woman in Indiana.
Pride flags are being burned in Rochester
RPD and RFD are investigating as arson
Vandals Spray ‘Trump 2016’ Over Message of Unity in East Haddam, CT
Racist USPS worked "you ain't gettin your check no more"
I'm running out of faith in humanity.
posted by Talez at 2:18 PM on November 10, 2016 [24 favorites]
I found this under my windshield wiper at my own house. I'm in disbelief"
"Hey N----r. Pick that up. Keep my streets clean," said the emboldened white Trump supporter to this Black woman in Indiana.
Pride flags are being burned in Rochester
RPD and RFD are investigating as arson
Vandals Spray ‘Trump 2016’ Over Message of Unity in East Haddam, CT
Racist USPS worked "you ain't gettin your check no more"
I'm running out of faith in humanity.
posted by Talez at 2:18 PM on November 10, 2016 [24 favorites]
Jill Stein's communications director.
posted by waitingtoderail at 2:19 PM on November 10, 2016 [24 favorites]
posted by waitingtoderail at 2:19 PM on November 10, 2016 [24 favorites]
Are we allowed to take solace in the fact that Trump is, per Fox News, very anti-TPP?
I suspect Obama will work on little other than getting TPP finished in the next two months, because that's what... somebody must want.
posted by rokusan at 2:24 PM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
I suspect Obama will work on little other than getting TPP finished in the next two months, because that's what... somebody must want.
posted by rokusan at 2:24 PM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
In 200 years the only thing that's going to matter is that we had a chance to stop the climate from going off the cliff and instead we put the accelerator through the goddamn floor. Cities will be abandoned, coastlines will disappear, countries will drown. Mass extinctions. Famine. Refugees by the millions and wars of survival. It's the worst thing we've ever done, maybe the worst thing we could ever do.
posted by theodolite at 2:24 PM on November 10, 2016 [17 favorites]
posted by theodolite at 2:24 PM on November 10, 2016 [17 favorites]
I like it. Dennis gets a cookie.
posted by telepanda at 2:25 PM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by telepanda at 2:25 PM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
@emptythought – one of the best comments I have ever read. Props to your pops.
...i left my debit card at the bar and woke up to my dad at the door of my place going "get the fuck up and go to work, you need money for the apocalypse"
posted by nickrussell at 2:26 PM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
...i left my debit card at the bar and woke up to my dad at the door of my place going "get the fuck up and go to work, you need money for the apocalypse"
posted by nickrussell at 2:26 PM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
but Zach had more to say.
circle up, brothers and sisters! time to fight the real enemy!
posted by prize bull octorok at 2:28 PM on November 10, 2016
circle up, brothers and sisters! time to fight the real enemy!
posted by prize bull octorok at 2:28 PM on November 10, 2016
because that's what... somebody must want.
Taiwan's pro-independence party president expressed interest in joining TPP. Probably because they wanted to rely less on Mainland China and more on US and its allies, for both economic and strategic reasons.
posted by FJT at 2:32 PM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
Taiwan's pro-independence party president expressed interest in joining TPP. Probably because they wanted to rely less on Mainland China and more on US and its allies, for both economic and strategic reasons.
posted by FJT at 2:32 PM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
I haven't been able to find any sources yet* to tell for absolute certain for House & Senate, but it is certain or almost certain that:
One lesson, though, is that 0.5% majorities aren't good enough. Not even 2-3% majorities. If Democrats really want to run things, their majority needs to be in the 5-6% range, at minimum.
*If anyone knows a source for House & Senate popular vote totals available in a way that would make them easy to download or copy/paste in order to calculate national popular vote totals I would be very interested in this.
posted by flug at 2:33 PM on November 10, 2016 [18 favorites]
- Democrats won a majority of popular votes in the Presidential election
- Democrats won a majority of popular votes in the House election
- Democrats won a majority of popular votes in the Senate election
One lesson, though, is that 0.5% majorities aren't good enough. Not even 2-3% majorities. If Democrats really want to run things, their majority needs to be in the 5-6% range, at minimum.
*If anyone knows a source for House & Senate popular vote totals available in a way that would make them easy to download or copy/paste in order to calculate national popular vote totals I would be very interested in this.
posted by flug at 2:33 PM on November 10, 2016 [18 favorites]
So long story short incrementalism is going to limit their ability to do too much damage. Yes there will be a lot of people hurt by this but they are not going to be able to undo the New Deal. St Reagan tried and failed and Trump and the incompetent people around him will fail as well.
There will be a lot of people killed and a lot of people who kill themselves. I would appreciate us understanding and clearly stating that instead of saying "hurt". Because for a lot of people "hurt" would be an enjoyable preference over the fate that been handed to them.
posted by Annika Cicada at 2:34 PM on November 10, 2016 [12 favorites]
There will be a lot of people killed and a lot of people who kill themselves. I would appreciate us understanding and clearly stating that instead of saying "hurt". Because for a lot of people "hurt" would be an enjoyable preference over the fate that been handed to them.
posted by Annika Cicada at 2:34 PM on November 10, 2016 [12 favorites]
A thread or two back, roughly 4,000 of your Earth-thread years, someone mentioned the BBC show detectorists. Thank you.
The show's theme song is decidedly minor-key hopeful, and somehow medieval in an acoustic-guitar-and-violin way, sort of a bluegrass ballad at 80bpm.
This fine fellow teaches you how to play it. Like the woman who baked a cake after 9/11, I think that's what I'll do. That's my cake.
posted by petebest at 2:34 PM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
The show's theme song is decidedly minor-key hopeful, and somehow medieval in an acoustic-guitar-and-violin way, sort of a bluegrass ballad at 80bpm.
This fine fellow teaches you how to play it. Like the woman who baked a cake after 9/11, I think that's what I'll do. That's my cake.
posted by petebest at 2:34 PM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
Wonderful photo of HIllary walking her dog today. Hope she's hanging in there.
posted by acidic at 2:35 PM on November 10, 2016 [24 favorites]
posted by acidic at 2:35 PM on November 10, 2016 [24 favorites]
Taiwan's pro-independence party president expressed interest in joining TPP. Probably because they wanted to rely less on Mainland China and more on US and its allies, for both economic and strategic reasons.
Maybe Trump will craft a deal of his own. Or his attitude towards South Korea and East Asia in general will cause Japan/RoK/Taiwan to form their own pact.
posted by Apocryphon at 2:35 PM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
Maybe Trump will craft a deal of his own. Or his attitude towards South Korea and East Asia in general will cause Japan/RoK/Taiwan to form their own pact.
posted by Apocryphon at 2:35 PM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
All of you people who are saying things won't be too bad, try visiting Shaun King's Twitter feed to see how Trump's election has turned red hats into the new brown shirts, come back and tell me that.
posted by entropicamericana at 2:37 PM on November 10, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by entropicamericana at 2:37 PM on November 10, 2016 [10 favorites]
The Onion: How To Talk To Your Child About The Election Results:
Remind them that one day when they’re older, they’ll understand all of this a lot better and will get to decide for themselves whether or not they should forgive us.posted by palindromic at 2:38 PM on November 10, 2016 [30 favorites]
Acquaint your daughter with the word “motherfucker” to equip her for what lies ahead.
So reached a sort of impasse with white dude friend (and his friend) on FB:
He says:
1. It's bad to call Trump voters racist, because
2. It sounds like I'm saying my side is all rainbows and light (and I suspect, because it Hurts Feelings and Makes Them Uncomfortable)
My response: the policies they say they promote, their stated positions, will hurt people I care about (all of us really but I didn't go into that). Could he say I was wrong to stand with them and care?
The responses boiled down to:
Guy 1: Obama hurt people too! Now we get to feel how Republicans felt for last 8 years while Obama subverted everything the country used to stand for! Also his friend had his ACA rates go up.
--hoo boy. This was revealing to me. There's your politics of resentment coupled with "not understanding the whole ACA thing." I didn't respond to this one (also this was the guy who was all YOU WANT TO KILL BABIES so there was only so far we could go.)
Guy 2: Trump is unpredictable! Who knows if he will actually hurt people? He might be more progressive than you think!
---Well, ok, granted, he is unpredictable, but talk about putting a shine on a turd. I could only respond that I hoped he was right, and I do, but that's a really tiny hope.
Anyway, I'm oddly glad I engaged this time.
posted by emjaybee at 2:38 PM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
He says:
1. It's bad to call Trump voters racist, because
2. It sounds like I'm saying my side is all rainbows and light (and I suspect, because it Hurts Feelings and Makes Them Uncomfortable)
My response: the policies they say they promote, their stated positions, will hurt people I care about (all of us really but I didn't go into that). Could he say I was wrong to stand with them and care?
The responses boiled down to:
Guy 1: Obama hurt people too! Now we get to feel how Republicans felt for last 8 years while Obama subverted everything the country used to stand for! Also his friend had his ACA rates go up.
--hoo boy. This was revealing to me. There's your politics of resentment coupled with "not understanding the whole ACA thing." I didn't respond to this one (also this was the guy who was all YOU WANT TO KILL BABIES so there was only so far we could go.)
Guy 2: Trump is unpredictable! Who knows if he will actually hurt people? He might be more progressive than you think!
---Well, ok, granted, he is unpredictable, but talk about putting a shine on a turd. I could only respond that I hoped he was right, and I do, but that's a really tiny hope.
Anyway, I'm oddly glad I engaged this time.
posted by emjaybee at 2:38 PM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
I'm a woman, a Muslim, and an immigrant. I voted for Trump. (WaPo)
I read this. And it's so incoherent, so lacking in critical reasoning, so petty, so stupid. And it includes this whopper:
posted by dis_integration at 2:38 PM on November 10, 2016 [46 favorites]
I read this. And it's so incoherent, so lacking in critical reasoning, so petty, so stupid. And it includes this whopper:
I wrote that as a child of India, arriving in the United States at the age of 4 in the summer of 1969, I have absolutely no fears about being a Muslim in a “Trump America.” The checks and balances in America and our rich history of social justice and civil rights will never allow the fear-mongering that has been attached to candidate Trump’s rhetoric to come to fruition.Just. no. You're deluded, lady. You're blind.
posted by dis_integration at 2:38 PM on November 10, 2016 [46 favorites]
My one light note of the day is that Egg just send an email saying he's going to keep up the fight for "equality, freedom, liberty, and inclusiveness" and try and build a new conservative movement. Silly as it may sound right now, it actually feels pretty good to hear that there are at least a few conservatives out there who aren't okay with what's happened either. Lord knows he isn't likely to find many willing listeners for the time being, but Godspeed Evan McMullin, keep up the good work, and I wouldn't even mind right now if you are still connected to the CIA.
posted by gusottertrout at 2:40 PM on November 10, 2016 [20 favorites]
posted by gusottertrout at 2:40 PM on November 10, 2016 [20 favorites]
> We're all in Brownback's Kansas now.
For any of you who haven't been following Kansas news lately, the state now officially has the worst economy in the nation. The blame can be laid completely at the feet of Brownback's tax proposals & related tax cuts.
The situation is so bad that Kansas has actually stopped publishing its annual economic report online due to fears that it is "confusing" (ie, that it shows that KS's economy is cratering).
Despite that fact the Brownback called the tax cuts an "experiment" and the experience has showed very, very clearly that the approach doesn't work to stimulate the economy, doesn't work to generate more tax dollars (the promise is the fewer taxes will make the economy grow, thus bringing in more tax revenue even though the tax rate is lower), and is disastrous for the state in a large number of ways, Brownback and his supporters have shown no willingness to change or back down.
This is just one of many disastrous "experiments" we have to look forward to on a nationwide basis now . . .
posted by flug at 2:43 PM on November 10, 2016 [24 favorites]
For any of you who haven't been following Kansas news lately, the state now officially has the worst economy in the nation. The blame can be laid completely at the feet of Brownback's tax proposals & related tax cuts.
The situation is so bad that Kansas has actually stopped publishing its annual economic report online due to fears that it is "confusing" (ie, that it shows that KS's economy is cratering).
Despite that fact the Brownback called the tax cuts an "experiment" and the experience has showed very, very clearly that the approach doesn't work to stimulate the economy, doesn't work to generate more tax dollars (the promise is the fewer taxes will make the economy grow, thus bringing in more tax revenue even though the tax rate is lower), and is disastrous for the state in a large number of ways, Brownback and his supporters have shown no willingness to change or back down.
This is just one of many disastrous "experiments" we have to look forward to on a nationwide basis now . . .
posted by flug at 2:43 PM on November 10, 2016 [24 favorites]
I read this. And it's so incoherent, so lacking in critical reasoning, so petty, so stupid.
Also, it's a "fun" shot/chaser to read her frustration with Obama not saying the magic words "Islamic terrorism" and then today's ISIS press release declaring that Trump's election proves America is making war on Islam and all good Muslims (by which they mean Sunnis, natch) must immediately join their cause and fight back. Gee, I wonder what reaction Obama was worried about provoking by tarring all of Islam with that brush.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 2:43 PM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
Also, it's a "fun" shot/chaser to read her frustration with Obama not saying the magic words "Islamic terrorism" and then today's ISIS press release declaring that Trump's election proves America is making war on Islam and all good Muslims (by which they mean Sunnis, natch) must immediately join their cause and fight back. Gee, I wonder what reaction Obama was worried about provoking by tarring all of Islam with that brush.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 2:43 PM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
I like Elizabeth Warren quite a lot, and I spent much of the past few years wishing she'd run, too. But she's really never expressed much desire to do it, and without that burning desire, I doubt she or anyone would have succeeded, especially in this pressure cooker of a year. (See also Biden, Joey Wheels.)
At least this way she's still in a position to help resist a very empowered Republican government. A little, anyway. Small, small silver linings.
posted by rokusan at 2:43 PM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
At least this way she's still in a position to help resist a very empowered Republican government. A little, anyway. Small, small silver linings.
posted by rokusan at 2:43 PM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
I don't know any more about Evan McMullin than anyone else who never heard his name until a few weeks ago, but yeah, it is sort of refreshing to hear "conservative party" and "inclusive" in the same sentence, so that's nice.
posted by rokusan at 2:45 PM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by rokusan at 2:45 PM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
Maybe Trump will craft a deal of his own. Or his attitude towards South Korea and East Asia in general will cause Japan/RoK/Taiwan to form their own pact.
With Clinton as president I was more okay with letting TPP slip, because she would honor the TRA. With Donald, I honestly have no answer. If Russia wanted Donald as president because then they could have better control of their sphere of influence (like Ukraine and the Baltics), does the same hold for Mainland China?
I can easily imagine Donald gleefully threatening China and then turning around and giving a "great deal" on military hardware to Taiwan, not to mention Korea and Japan. Then going back to the people of the US and saying how proud he is that he got those freeloaders to pay for their defense.
posted by FJT at 2:45 PM on November 10, 2016
With Clinton as president I was more okay with letting TPP slip, because she would honor the TRA. With Donald, I honestly have no answer. If Russia wanted Donald as president because then they could have better control of their sphere of influence (like Ukraine and the Baltics), does the same hold for Mainland China?
I can easily imagine Donald gleefully threatening China and then turning around and giving a "great deal" on military hardware to Taiwan, not to mention Korea and Japan. Then going back to the people of the US and saying how proud he is that he got those freeloaders to pay for their defense.
posted by FJT at 2:45 PM on November 10, 2016
>
No, the rationale is notably different from that in her case and others:
This is something I've encountered in several other people while discussing Trump: the idea that the way fascism/totalitarianism would be stopped from taking over in the U.S. is that we put the guy who has explicitly outlined such plans in control of the executive government, the surveillance state, the nuclear arsenal, the military, and national law enforcement first, and then afterwards, if it turns out that he meant what he said, he would be stopped in some handwavy way that involves righteousness and the Constitution, as though it's some sort of magical talisman.
posted by XMLicious at 2:46 PM on November 10, 2016 [36 favorites]
I'm a woman, a Muslim, and an immigrant. I voted for Trump. (WaPo)
It's quite possible that many of those minorities/women who voted for Trump, or voted third party, or didn't bother to vote at all, aren't all that different from this Muslim immigrant woman. It's the "he can't possibly mean the worst of what he says", "he's just saying what plays well to his core base."
No, the rationale is notably different from that in her case and others:
I wrote that as a child of India, arriving in the United States at the age of 4 in the summer of 1969, I have absolutely no fears about being a Muslim in a “Trump America.” The checks and balances in America and our rich history of social justice and civil rights will never allow the fear-mongering that has been attached to candidate Trump’s rhetoric to come to fruition.She thinks that regardless of whether or not he means the things he's said, the circumstances that existed in the U.S. in the year she was born—when the Democratic Party of Alabama still had the phrase "White Supremacy" in its logo—can never return.
This is something I've encountered in several other people while discussing Trump: the idea that the way fascism/totalitarianism would be stopped from taking over in the U.S. is that we put the guy who has explicitly outlined such plans in control of the executive government, the surveillance state, the nuclear arsenal, the military, and national law enforcement first, and then afterwards, if it turns out that he meant what he said, he would be stopped in some handwavy way that involves righteousness and the Constitution, as though it's some sort of magical talisman.
posted by XMLicious at 2:46 PM on November 10, 2016 [36 favorites]
How, where, when did we go wrong?
1492, white men got off a boat, decided they owned the continent they landed on by accident
posted by poffin boffin at 2:47 PM on November 10, 2016 [65 favorites]
1492, white men got off a boat, decided they owned the continent they landed on by accident
posted by poffin boffin at 2:47 PM on November 10, 2016 [65 favorites]
I teach at a majority-minority public college. Yesterday, everytime I went into a women's restroom, there was someone crying. Today, a white man spent the day walking around our campus with a large American flag and a handmade t-shirt that read "Let's build the fucking wall". This is not okay.
posted by hydropsyche at 2:48 PM on November 10, 2016 [16 favorites]
posted by hydropsyche at 2:48 PM on November 10, 2016 [16 favorites]
As president, Trump may become Trumpier.
posted by jeffburdges at 2:49 PM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by jeffburdges at 2:49 PM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
Trump's White Nationalist Backers Train Their Eyes On Elected Office, Admin Posts:
In the wake of Donald Trump’s upset presidential win, the small yet vocal cohort of white nationalists who supported his campaign are refocusing their efforts from trolling liberals online to running for elected office.posted by palindromic at 2:50 PM on November 10, 2016
Their reasoning: If a candidate who appealed to the tide of anti-immigrant, anti-Muslim sentiment surging on the country’s right could win over voters, why not one who is openly "pro-white"?
“I have been very surprised that we have not seen attractive, well-spoken, racially aware candidates running for local office,” Jared Taylor, head of the white nationalist American Renaissance publication and annual conference, told TPM in a Wednesday phone call. “I think this will be inevitable, and I think that Trump will have encouraged this. That our people will run for school board, city council, mayor, all that I anticipate certainly.”
I read this. And it's so incoherent, so lacking in critical reasoning, so petty, so stupid.
She's also a WSJ columnist, I suspect she's like Ayan Hirsi Ali or Walid Shoebat, either apostates from Islam or "moderate" Muslims who make a living writing books and giving interviews that feed into Western preconceptions of Islamophobia.
posted by Apocryphon at 2:51 PM on November 10, 2016 [7 favorites]
She's also a WSJ columnist, I suspect she's like Ayan Hirsi Ali or Walid Shoebat, either apostates from Islam or "moderate" Muslims who make a living writing books and giving interviews that feed into Western preconceptions of Islamophobia.
posted by Apocryphon at 2:51 PM on November 10, 2016 [7 favorites]
his best chance to be remembered as a hugely popular and surprisingly effective president is to pivot crazy hard to the center and be way less racist, destructive, and horrible than we all fearedIIRC his style of business negotiation was the cliched "if you want the moon ask for the stars", so if it was just him vs the liberals and the moderates then I could definitely see his behavior ending up much more moderate than his campaign, his "initial bid".
This seems less plausible when you remember that it's not "just him", it's "just him and his supporters", and even if his Vice President can't remember what Trump's said, they can, many of them are looking forward to it, and he won't have any fans left if he goes back on it. I don't think he'll let a love of honesty prevent that, but love of popularity might stop him.
posted by roystgnr at 2:51 PM on November 10, 2016
Warren Warns Trump: Democrats Won't Tolerate Bigotry, Deregulation:
Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-MA) struck a defiant tone in her first speech after the Tuesday victory of President-elect Donald Trump, criticizing him for targeting minorities and saying she would fight the Republican Party “every step of the way” if it tried to de-regulate Wall Street under an imagined mandate.posted by palindromic at 2:55 PM on November 10, 2016 [25 favorites]
In remarks to the AFL-CIO Executive Council in Washington, D.C. on Thursday, Warren said that the presidential election had been “ugly.”
“And we should not sugarcoat the reason why,” she said, according to a Boston Globe transcript of the speech. “Donald Trump ran a campaign that started with racial attacks and then rode the escalator down.”
Warren said that Trump’s victory made Latino and Muslim-American children “worried about what will happen to their families,” and LGBT couples “worried that their marriages could be dissolved.”
One thing I have learned is I am not looking at thinkpieces or listening to pundits. I listened to all the podcasts and read all the posts and everyone was wrong, wrong, wrong. I have no idea if Trump will be Trumpier or like Obama or whatever. I do know all his minions are terrible though.
posted by zutalors! at 2:56 PM on November 10, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by zutalors! at 2:56 PM on November 10, 2016 [10 favorites]
How, where, when did we go wrong?
"Many were increasingly of the opinion that they'd all made a big mistake in coming down from the trees in the first place. And some said that even the trees had been a bad move, and that no one should ever have left the oceans."
posted by Doktor Zed at 2:57 PM on November 10, 2016 [38 favorites]
"Many were increasingly of the opinion that they'd all made a big mistake in coming down from the trees in the first place. And some said that even the trees had been a bad move, and that no one should ever have left the oceans."
posted by Doktor Zed at 2:57 PM on November 10, 2016 [38 favorites]
How, where, when did we go wrong?
1492, white men got off a boat, decided they owned the continent they landed on by accident
posted by poffin boffin at 2:47 PM on November 10 [+] [!]
1781. The wrong side wins at Yorktown.
1877. After a long, grueling guerrilla campaign, the Union finally loses the Civil War when Rutherford B. Hayes surrenders to the slaver Confederacy and withdraws United States troops from the south.
2000. The obvious.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 2:58 PM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
1492, white men got off a boat, decided they owned the continent they landed on by accident
posted by poffin boffin at 2:47 PM on November 10 [+] [!]
1781. The wrong side wins at Yorktown.
1877. After a long, grueling guerrilla campaign, the Union finally loses the Civil War when Rutherford B. Hayes surrenders to the slaver Confederacy and withdraws United States troops from the south.
2000. The obvious.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 2:58 PM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
I just died a little inside, but I needed to do this:
Judgment at Nuremberg, updated:
ERNST JANNING
Judgment at Nuremberg, updated:
"in order to understand it, one must understand the period in which it happened.posted by mikelieman at 3:00 PM on November 10, 2016 [26 favorites]
There was a fever over the land, a fever of disgrace, of indignity, of hunger. We had a democracy, yes, but it was torn by elements within. Above all there was fear, fear of today, fear of tomorrow, fear of our neighbors, and fear of ourselves. Only when you understand that can you understand what [Trump] meant to us, because he said to us:
"Lift your heads. Be proud to be [American]. There are devils among us, [Muslims], liberals, Jews, [Mexicans]. Once these devils will be destroyed your misery will be destroyed."
It was the old, old story of the sacrificial lamb.
What about those of us who knew better, we who knew the words were lies and worse than lies? Why did we sit silent? Why did we take part? Because we loved our country. What difference does it make if a few political extremists lose their rights? What difference does it make if a few racial minorities lose their rights? It is only a passing phase. It is only a stage we are going through. It will be discarded sooner or later. [Trump] himself will be discarded -- sooner or later. The country is in danger. We will march out of the shadows! We will go forward. FORWARD is the great password.
And history tells how well we succeeded, Your Honor. We succeeded beyond out wildest dreams. The very elements of hate and power about [Trump] that mesmerized [The United States], mesmerized the world."
Trump Immigration Adviser Spoke at White Nationalist Group Conference
Kris Kobach from Kansas, seriously.
posted by airish at 3:00 PM on November 10, 2016 [12 favorites]
Kris Kobach from Kansas, seriously.
posted by airish at 3:00 PM on November 10, 2016 [12 favorites]
How, where, when did we go wrong?
Several hundred million years ago. A fish looks up and thinks "Hey! I wonder what it's like up there, where the light is?"
posted by Grangousier at 3:01 PM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
Several hundred million years ago. A fish looks up and thinks "Hey! I wonder what it's like up there, where the light is?"
posted by Grangousier at 3:01 PM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
if only alfred had been slightly less great it could be thorsday today
posted by poffin boffin at 3:01 PM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by poffin boffin at 3:01 PM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
Imagine if Trump gets charged for one of his many misdeeds and has a bail hearing. "The accused is President-elect and is therefore a flight risk."
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:02 PM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:02 PM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
Given that he's quite possibly a Russian spy, he may already have failed security clearance.
posted by Grangousier at 3:04 PM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Grangousier at 3:04 PM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
Re: Keith Ellison as DNC chair, of course it's good from the perspective of having a strong progressive and a Muslim in charge of the party, but it's also notable that he predicted Trump could be successful back when everyone else was laughing at the possibility. Maybe it was just an offhand "anything could happen" comment, not a sign that he has some supernatural ability to read the mind of the electorate, but with so many in the party and the greater public underestimating Trump, it's probably good to have the party led by someone who was right about him early on.
posted by tonycpsu at 3:07 PM on November 10, 2016 [13 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 3:07 PM on November 10, 2016 [13 favorites]
Trump bucks protocol on press access
WASHINGTON (AP) — President-elect Donald Trump is keeping America in the dark about his earliest conversations and decisions about his incoming government, and bucking a long-standing practice intended to ensure the public has a watchful eye on the nation's new leader.posted by tonycpsu at 3:11 PM on November 10, 2016 [31 favorites]
Trump on Thursday refused to allow journalists to travel with him to Washington for his historic first meeting with President Barack Obama and congressional leaders. The Republican's top advisers rebuffed news organizations' requests for a small "pool" of journalists to trail Trump as he attended meetings Washington.
The decision was part of an opaque pattern in Trump's first moves since his victory Tuesday. Trump was entirely out of sight on Wednesday. His aides said he was huddled with advisers at his offices in New York. His team has not put out a daily schedule, or offered any detailed updates on how he has spent his time. They have not acknowledged phone calls or other contact with world leaders.
When Russian President Vladimir Putin sent a congratulatory telegram to Trump on Wednesday, Moscow spread the word. A phone call with British Prime Minster Theresa May was announced in London. The pattern was repeated for calls with leaders of Israel, Egypt, South Korea and Australia.
The White House typically releases statements on the president's phone calls with foreign leaders, providing some details about the conversation. Past presidents-elect have had early briefings with journalists, even in confusing first hours after Election Day.
But early signs suggest Trump is willing to break protocol when it comes to press access and transparency.
IANAL but a president cannot fail a security, Grangousier. In fact, I vaguely though security clearances exist through executive order, like almost an extension of executive privilege, not sure.
I suspect that, if a president wanted to clean house at the CIA, NSA, FBI, contractors, etc. very quickly, then he could simply revoke all the undesirables' clearances. All those people would still be employed by the federal government or their contractor, but they could no longer enter their office or handle classified materials. I doubt there would be any recourse for those whose clearances were revoked. And maybe their clearances could be revoked in a way that future administrations cannot easily rehire them.
posted by jeffburdges at 3:11 PM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
I suspect that, if a president wanted to clean house at the CIA, NSA, FBI, contractors, etc. very quickly, then he could simply revoke all the undesirables' clearances. All those people would still be employed by the federal government or their contractor, but they could no longer enter their office or handle classified materials. I doubt there would be any recourse for those whose clearances were revoked. And maybe their clearances could be revoked in a way that future administrations cannot easily rehire them.
posted by jeffburdges at 3:11 PM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
racially aware
Is that what they're calling it now, huh.
posted by emjaybee at 3:11 PM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
Is that what they're calling it now, huh.
posted by emjaybee at 3:11 PM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
Given that he's quite possibly a Russian spy, he may already have failed security clearance.
The power to classify or declassify documents literally stems from his office, as well as the power to determine who gets to see those docs. We the American people are supposed to vet him before entrusting our national secrets to him, not the security apparatus. This is a good thing! You do not want any group to be able to determine what the president has access to!
posted by muddgirl at 3:13 PM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
The power to classify or declassify documents literally stems from his office, as well as the power to determine who gets to see those docs. We the American people are supposed to vet him before entrusting our national secrets to him, not the security apparatus. This is a good thing! You do not want any group to be able to determine what the president has access to!
posted by muddgirl at 3:13 PM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
But early signs suggest Trump is willing to break protocol when it comes to press access and transparency.
Trump has already broken protocol about transparency - his tax reports are still unknown. I am not surprised at all that he plans to run the presidency like a closed board meeting, issuing pronouncements and then ducking back into a room to talk with advisors of his choice.
However, he can't force the secret service to sign NDAs, and at some point he's going to have to choose between safety and secrecy.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 3:15 PM on November 10, 2016 [12 favorites]
Trump has already broken protocol about transparency - his tax reports are still unknown. I am not surprised at all that he plans to run the presidency like a closed board meeting, issuing pronouncements and then ducking back into a room to talk with advisors of his choice.
However, he can't force the secret service to sign NDAs, and at some point he's going to have to choose between safety and secrecy.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 3:15 PM on November 10, 2016 [12 favorites]
Is that what they're calling it now, huh.
I'm sure he meant to say 'economically insecure.'
posted by palindromic at 3:16 PM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
I'm sure he meant to say 'economically insecure.'
posted by palindromic at 3:16 PM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
NPR just featured an interesting (and chilling, and infuriating) story about the Brigade app, An App Saw Trump Winning Swing States When Polls Didn't, which includes:
Of Brigade's verified voters, 40 percent of registered Democrats pledged to vote for Trump. . . . In states with outcomes that didn't match the polling results (i.e., Trump did better than expected), Brigade saw white women registered as Democrats pledge their vote to Trump at a much greater rate (170 percent) than the country as a whole.posted by FelliniBlank at 3:16 PM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
We the American people are supposed to vet him before entrusting our national secrets to him, not the security apparatus. This is a good thing! You do not want any group to be able to determine what the president has access to!
we did a shit job at this
I don't want to be people anymore, we are awful.
posted by zutalors! at 3:16 PM on November 10, 2016 [11 favorites]
we did a shit job at this
I don't want to be people anymore, we are awful.
posted by zutalors! at 3:16 PM on November 10, 2016 [11 favorites]
Hundreds of pundits made all kinds of comments about the election a year ago. The fact that a few of them predicted Trump could go all the way is not by itself very good evidence that those people were more insightful or had better information than the rest of us.
posted by straight at 3:17 PM on November 10, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by straight at 3:17 PM on November 10, 2016 [10 favorites]
We the American people are supposed to vet him before entrusting our national secrets to him, not the security apparatus.
Yes, of course.
Shall we carry on peeling the layers from this gigantic onion made entirely out of shit?
posted by Grangousier at 3:17 PM on November 10, 2016 [8 favorites]
Yes, of course.
Shall we carry on peeling the layers from this gigantic onion made entirely out of shit?
posted by Grangousier at 3:17 PM on November 10, 2016 [8 favorites]
The past year has been terrifying. I mean, I'm not that old, but I grew up in a time and place where people of different skin colour could not marry. Black people couldn't be Doctors or own businesses in white areas. They had shit schools, were segregated and subjugated.
Our maid brought the roof of her home to our house (she stayed at ours while working and went back to her 'homeland' at weekends). Her roof was a bit of tarpaulin and she was afraid it would get stolen. I was a 13 year old kid at the time and was called boss and sir by pretty much every black man who talked to me.
My family were called k****r lovers by neighbours because my mum opened a black hairdressers . White person cutting black hair, disgraceful.
This was only 25 years ago. It can easily happen again.
Things are not OK right now. Brexit in the UK is emboldening the white extremists as will Trump in the US. Le Pen will probably do very well in France. Things are far from OK.
posted by twistedonion at 3:18 PM on November 10, 2016 [8 favorites]
Our maid brought the roof of her home to our house (she stayed at ours while working and went back to her 'homeland' at weekends). Her roof was a bit of tarpaulin and she was afraid it would get stolen. I was a 13 year old kid at the time and was called boss and sir by pretty much every black man who talked to me.
My family were called k****r lovers by neighbours because my mum opened a black hairdressers . White person cutting black hair, disgraceful.
This was only 25 years ago. It can easily happen again.
Things are not OK right now. Brexit in the UK is emboldening the white extremists as will Trump in the US. Le Pen will probably do very well in France. Things are far from OK.
posted by twistedonion at 3:18 PM on November 10, 2016 [8 favorites]
Welcome to Trump's America: 58 reports of people bullied by emboldened bigots — and the list is growing: (warning: auto-play video somewhere on the page, lots of images and stories of people being terrible)
posted by palindromic at 3:18 PM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by palindromic at 3:18 PM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
Bill McKibben: Trump's Presidency Comes When the Warming World Can Least Afford It
posted by homunculus at 3:25 PM on November 10, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by homunculus at 3:25 PM on November 10, 2016 [7 favorites]
early signs suggest Trump is willing to break protocol when it comes to press access and transparency
...and I need to peace out. I'm gonna keep an autodonate on to Planned Parenthood and ACLU, and hunker down in my own private I-don't-know.
posted by sandettie light vessel automatic at 3:25 PM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
...and I need to peace out. I'm gonna keep an autodonate on to Planned Parenthood and ACLU, and hunker down in my own private I-don't-know.
posted by sandettie light vessel automatic at 3:25 PM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
I can easily imagine Donald gleefully threatening China and then turning around and giving a "great deal" on military hardware to Taiwan, not to mention Korea and Japan. Then going back to the people of the US and saying how proud he is that he got those freeloaders to pay for their defense.
The New Bloom: What Does The Trump Presidency Mean For Taiwan And The Asia Pacific?
Yet where Taiwan is concerned, putting all one’s eggs into only the basket of the United States as a security guarantee against China is now reaping unexpected consequences with a Trump victory. America was hardly a reliable partner from the onset, given that America backed authoritarian rule by the KMT for so many decades during the martial law era and has been happy to keep Taiwan in the political limbo since it switched political recognition from the Republic of China to the People’s Republic of China. But the consequences of a Trump presidency on Taiwan may actually be the logical outcome from pro-Taiwan political actors becoming wholly dependent on America as the sole guarantor of Taiwanese security against China, seeing as America can now no longer be depended upon, period.
If the Tsai administration is intelligent, it will try to secure stronger ties with regional powers similarly caught between America and China, and who are now also caught in a dilemma with the rise of Trump making America an unreliable partner. Apart from South Korea and Japan, which face a similar quandary as East Asian countries strongly dependent on American security guarantees who may be left out in the cold under a Trump presidency, this may make the Tsai administration’s “New Southwards Policy” aimed at cementing political and economic ties with Southeast Asian countries to wean Taiwan off of economic dependence from China more urgent than ever.
Unfortunately, the New Southwards Policy has run into complications in recent months. And there would seem to now be need for Taiwan not to wean itself off of dependence of China—but also America. America can no longer be counted on under a Trump presidency and Taiwan will need to find allies elsewhere. Some have suggested that Taiwan taking action independent of the United States could be more dangerous than not, seeing as this removes Taiwan from the umbrella of American influence over its political decisions, and could lead to some bad choices. But that may be the only option for Taiwan. Taiwan could only count on itself to defend its sovereignty from the beginning, anyhow. The same is true of other Asia Pacific countries caught between America and China, seeing as China will only seek to take over America’s role of regional hegemony. Now may be the time for such countries to unite. The path is fraught.
posted by Apocryphon at 3:28 PM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
The New Bloom: What Does The Trump Presidency Mean For Taiwan And The Asia Pacific?
Yet where Taiwan is concerned, putting all one’s eggs into only the basket of the United States as a security guarantee against China is now reaping unexpected consequences with a Trump victory. America was hardly a reliable partner from the onset, given that America backed authoritarian rule by the KMT for so many decades during the martial law era and has been happy to keep Taiwan in the political limbo since it switched political recognition from the Republic of China to the People’s Republic of China. But the consequences of a Trump presidency on Taiwan may actually be the logical outcome from pro-Taiwan political actors becoming wholly dependent on America as the sole guarantor of Taiwanese security against China, seeing as America can now no longer be depended upon, period.
If the Tsai administration is intelligent, it will try to secure stronger ties with regional powers similarly caught between America and China, and who are now also caught in a dilemma with the rise of Trump making America an unreliable partner. Apart from South Korea and Japan, which face a similar quandary as East Asian countries strongly dependent on American security guarantees who may be left out in the cold under a Trump presidency, this may make the Tsai administration’s “New Southwards Policy” aimed at cementing political and economic ties with Southeast Asian countries to wean Taiwan off of economic dependence from China more urgent than ever.
Unfortunately, the New Southwards Policy has run into complications in recent months. And there would seem to now be need for Taiwan not to wean itself off of dependence of China—but also America. America can no longer be counted on under a Trump presidency and Taiwan will need to find allies elsewhere. Some have suggested that Taiwan taking action independent of the United States could be more dangerous than not, seeing as this removes Taiwan from the umbrella of American influence over its political decisions, and could lead to some bad choices. But that may be the only option for Taiwan. Taiwan could only count on itself to defend its sovereignty from the beginning, anyhow. The same is true of other Asia Pacific countries caught between America and China, seeing as China will only seek to take over America’s role of regional hegemony. Now may be the time for such countries to unite. The path is fraught.
posted by Apocryphon at 3:28 PM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
I'd like to thank President Trump for solving the Global Brain Drain problem that has been such an intractable issue for the developing world for the last several decades.
posted by BinGregory at 3:31 PM on November 10, 2016 [22 favorites]
posted by BinGregory at 3:31 PM on November 10, 2016 [22 favorites]
I can't get through even half of Shaun King's list without wanting to vomit. I had to stop because I was feeling an anxiety attack coming on. Day One, guys, Day One.
posted by corb at 3:37 PM on November 10, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by corb at 3:37 PM on November 10, 2016 [7 favorites]
What I can't figure out is how the writers of The Walking Dead knew how election day was gonna go ahead of time to write it into this years season premiere.
posted by valkane at 3:38 PM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by valkane at 3:38 PM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
Clinton, for all her flaws, was miles and miles a better candidate and person, and her loss says less about her than the voting public.
If she lost to Jeb!, Rubio, even Cruz, there'd be a better base for the "We just need better candidates" argument. But her loss to Trump speaks to ugly, ugly social beliefs about (A) women and our proper place, and (B) what anyone is allowed to say about race and equality. Because in a world without those effects, that shitheel would've lost to a dustbin.
I cannot favorite this hard enough. It is gobsmacking that conservative and superconservative and evangelical Republicans could bring themselves to vote for this hideous man. It's mind-boggling that moderate Republicans and centrist independents could. IT IS OUTRAGEOUS AND A PROFOUND BETRAYAL OF BASIC CORE VALUES
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:42 PM on November 10, 2016 [57 favorites]
If she lost to Jeb!, Rubio, even Cruz, there'd be a better base for the "We just need better candidates" argument. But her loss to Trump speaks to ugly, ugly social beliefs about (A) women and our proper place, and (B) what anyone is allowed to say about race and equality. Because in a world without those effects, that shitheel would've lost to a dustbin.
I cannot favorite this hard enough. It is gobsmacking that conservative and superconservative and evangelical Republicans could bring themselves to vote for this hideous man. It's mind-boggling that moderate Republicans and centrist independents could. IT IS OUTRAGEOUS AND A PROFOUND BETRAYAL OF BASIC CORE VALUES
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:42 PM on November 10, 2016 [57 favorites]
So I posted that Day 1 roundup on my facebook, asking my friends who voted for Trump what they're personally planning on doing to stop this, since they normalized it and gave it a mandate. So far I've gotten two responses - both of them essentially saying these were "agents provocateurs" and/or fake. One of them was Jewish.
I am out. I am done.
posted by Mchelly at 3:43 PM on November 10, 2016 [11 favorites]
I am out. I am done.
posted by Mchelly at 3:43 PM on November 10, 2016 [11 favorites]
(sorry, accidental too soon post) that anyone to the left of those groups would vote for him. These are not "Reagan Democrats" -- they are quislings.
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:43 PM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:43 PM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm starting to believe that Kanye West and/or Ron Perlman running might actually be feasible, if we're all still alive and Trump is running for reelection in 2020.
posted by Apocryphon at 3:44 PM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Apocryphon at 3:44 PM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
I can't get through even half of Shaun King's list without wanting to vomit.
This happened to me too earlier and I did have to stop for a while and go back after I had stopped crying. I cant bring myself to watch network news to find out but I do wonder if this hate-crime/intimidation/what-the-fuck-have-you-done-to-the-children stuff is going to get even a second of coverage.
I assume not. Which makes me feel sicker yet.
posted by Golem XIV at 3:45 PM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
This happened to me too earlier and I did have to stop for a while and go back after I had stopped crying. I cant bring myself to watch network news to find out but I do wonder if this hate-crime/intimidation/what-the-fuck-have-you-done-to-the-children stuff is going to get even a second of coverage.
I assume not. Which makes me feel sicker yet.
posted by Golem XIV at 3:45 PM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
A Modest Proposal Regarding Some New Educational Reforms
Trump's success this election has led me, as an educator, to realize we need to change three major things to our education system in order to better prepare our children for Trump's America. They are hard things that acknowledge the direction our country is going.
I suggest these things soberly, modestly and after much thought.
First, we must teach our children to be better and more effective liars.
Our president-elect succeeded without needing to tell the truth. Indeed, the truth would have actively hindered his campaign. There is no longer much value in truth as a public commodity. Students need to learn how to lie in ways that best benefit them personally - ideally, starting at home, but also in schools and churches. They should be punished for telling the truth about anything until they learn to lie about even the most innocuous things - like sports scores or whether they flushed the toilet or not. This also teaches them not to trust anyone else since they can just assume everyone else is telling lies.
Second, we must teach them to be relentless bullies.
We've invested a lot of time and energy on anti-bullying efforts but the evidence is clear - America loves bullies and wants them to not just succeed but lead. Regardless of your child's identity or beliefs, it is vital that they learn to relentlessly persecute anyone who is different from them. This persecution doesn't need to be justified - and, of course, it doesn't need to be based on anything true. Our kids aren't going to be able to thrive in Trumps' America if they don't learn to throw a punch, sling an insult or wear a jack boot.
Third, we must teach them to be completely egocentric.
Trump doesn't seem to care much about anyone but himself. This has been a very successful strategy for him his entire life. They should ignore things like laws, norms, and the desires of other people and make all of their decisions based on what they want at the moment that they want it. Evidence suggests if you just stop caring about anybody else's needs or wants, you can become President of the United States.
I realize that these three things are a departure from how we normally raise children, but Trump's victory should be seen as a disruption of all previous morality. The important thing now is to raise a generation of amoral, selfish, dishonest bullies because that's the only way to ensure that they'll be successful adults in Trump's America.*
*Some might be successful in the traditional way of behaving in a moral, compassionate way, but they'll not be as happy as those without morals or empathy for the next chunk of the century.
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:48 PM on November 10, 2016 [15 favorites]
Trump's success this election has led me, as an educator, to realize we need to change three major things to our education system in order to better prepare our children for Trump's America. They are hard things that acknowledge the direction our country is going.
I suggest these things soberly, modestly and after much thought.
First, we must teach our children to be better and more effective liars.
Our president-elect succeeded without needing to tell the truth. Indeed, the truth would have actively hindered his campaign. There is no longer much value in truth as a public commodity. Students need to learn how to lie in ways that best benefit them personally - ideally, starting at home, but also in schools and churches. They should be punished for telling the truth about anything until they learn to lie about even the most innocuous things - like sports scores or whether they flushed the toilet or not. This also teaches them not to trust anyone else since they can just assume everyone else is telling lies.
Second, we must teach them to be relentless bullies.
We've invested a lot of time and energy on anti-bullying efforts but the evidence is clear - America loves bullies and wants them to not just succeed but lead. Regardless of your child's identity or beliefs, it is vital that they learn to relentlessly persecute anyone who is different from them. This persecution doesn't need to be justified - and, of course, it doesn't need to be based on anything true. Our kids aren't going to be able to thrive in Trumps' America if they don't learn to throw a punch, sling an insult or wear a jack boot.
Third, we must teach them to be completely egocentric.
Trump doesn't seem to care much about anyone but himself. This has been a very successful strategy for him his entire life. They should ignore things like laws, norms, and the desires of other people and make all of their decisions based on what they want at the moment that they want it. Evidence suggests if you just stop caring about anybody else's needs or wants, you can become President of the United States.
I realize that these three things are a departure from how we normally raise children, but Trump's victory should be seen as a disruption of all previous morality. The important thing now is to raise a generation of amoral, selfish, dishonest bullies because that's the only way to ensure that they'll be successful adults in Trump's America.*
*Some might be successful in the traditional way of behaving in a moral, compassionate way, but they'll not be as happy as those without morals or empathy for the next chunk of the century.
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:48 PM on November 10, 2016 [15 favorites]
The Southern Poverty Law Center is collecting reports of incidents of hate. Please if you have one or know someone who does, report them, because the more we report them the less these fans of Trump can hide.
posted by Rufous-headed Towhee heehee at 3:49 PM on November 10, 2016 [20 favorites]
posted by Rufous-headed Towhee heehee at 3:49 PM on November 10, 2016 [20 favorites]
I reported ours to the SPLC. I wish that I had called the campus cops. I don't know if they could have done anything, but I think this shit needs to be documented.
posted by hydropsyche at 3:58 PM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by hydropsyche at 3:58 PM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
But what can we do when Trump supporters either don't believe it's real, or believe it's something that liberals are doing to make them look bad? When something being the truth stops being relevant, what difference will it make?
posted by Mchelly at 4:03 PM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Mchelly at 4:03 PM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
You know what pisses me off so much? Over the past decade, hearing repeatedly about the death of the Republican party. All of these experts saying "that's it, the Republican party is dead. Expect 20+ years of Dems in the white house.
That's it man. I'm done. Has there ever been more damning evidence that the media and the "experts" have just no goddamned idea what they're talking about? I literally might as well get my info from my angry fb uncle, because odds are he's as right as any of the fucking "professional media" we have right now.
posted by nushustu at 4:03 PM on November 10, 2016 [19 favorites]
That's it man. I'm done. Has there ever been more damning evidence that the media and the "experts" have just no goddamned idea what they're talking about? I literally might as well get my info from my angry fb uncle, because odds are he's as right as any of the fucking "professional media" we have right now.
posted by nushustu at 4:03 PM on November 10, 2016 [19 favorites]
A Modest Proposal Regarding Some New Educational Reforms
I wish there were a way to anti-favorite this.
posted by Doktor Zed at 4:03 PM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
I wish there were a way to anti-favorite this.
posted by Doktor Zed at 4:03 PM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
But what can we do when Trump supporters either don't believe it's real, or believe it's something that liberals are doing to make them look bad? When something being the truth stops being relevant, what difference will it make?
Clearly, the margin between victory and defeat is based on the narrowest margins of public opinion. Even if you only convince a percent or two, that could be enough.
posted by Zalzidrax at 4:05 PM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
Clearly, the margin between victory and defeat is based on the narrowest margins of public opinion. Even if you only convince a percent or two, that could be enough.
posted by Zalzidrax at 4:05 PM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
Does anyone have a line on a nice rear bumper for a green 1995 Subaru wagon that doesn't have a Bernie Sanders for President sticker on it? I spent like twenty minutes trying to get it off, and all I have is a scratched bumper, beaten up fingernails, and I still feel like shit.
[offtopic, but my answer is brief, so...]
Try warming it up a bit, either by leaving it out in the sun or running a hair dryer over it (if you have a heat gun, even better). This will soften the material. Use a plastic credit card (or failing that, pick up a plastic "razor blade" sold at some auto parts stores) to get started at one of the edges, grasp the loose bit and slooooowly peel away, helping as needed w/ the card. Clean up sticky residue w/ Goo Gone or similar.
posted by indubitable at 4:12 PM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
[offtopic, but my answer is brief, so...]
Try warming it up a bit, either by leaving it out in the sun or running a hair dryer over it (if you have a heat gun, even better). This will soften the material. Use a plastic credit card (or failing that, pick up a plastic "razor blade" sold at some auto parts stores) to get started at one of the edges, grasp the loose bit and slooooowly peel away, helping as needed w/ the card. Clean up sticky residue w/ Goo Gone or similar.
posted by indubitable at 4:12 PM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
A Modest Proposal Regarding Some New Educational Reforms
First, we must teach our children to be better and more effective liars.
Second, we must teach them to be relentless bullies.
Third, we must teach them to be completely egocentric.
As a baby boomer with 'greatest generation' parents, I was (subtly) taught these things at home. I'm proud of myself to say these lessons didn't stick with me, but I suspect they went over well with others of my generation. Dishonest Donald was born into the very beginning of the baby boom; he is the purest distillation of our dominant traits, and that's why I don't think of him much as an aberration.
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:13 PM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
First, we must teach our children to be better and more effective liars.
Second, we must teach them to be relentless bullies.
Third, we must teach them to be completely egocentric.
As a baby boomer with 'greatest generation' parents, I was (subtly) taught these things at home. I'm proud of myself to say these lessons didn't stick with me, but I suspect they went over well with others of my generation. Dishonest Donald was born into the very beginning of the baby boom; he is the purest distillation of our dominant traits, and that's why I don't think of him much as an aberration.
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:13 PM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
Does anyone have a line on a nice rear bumper for a green 1995 Subaru wagon that doesn't have a Bernie Sanders for President sticker on it?
Sorry. Most of the hundreds of bumpers in my neighborhood, and probably entire city, still have Sanders stickers on them. Nobody took them off.
(I've still only seen two or three Clinton ones, and I think a Trump sticker once, on the freeway. Not sure what that means. She carried the state easily, anyway.)
posted by rokusan at 4:15 PM on November 10, 2016
Sorry. Most of the hundreds of bumpers in my neighborhood, and probably entire city, still have Sanders stickers on them. Nobody took them off.
(I've still only seen two or three Clinton ones, and I think a Trump sticker once, on the freeway. Not sure what that means. She carried the state easily, anyway.)
posted by rokusan at 4:15 PM on November 10, 2016
"All of these experts saying "that's it, the Republican party is dead."
The Republican party is dead. Trump is Dr. Frankenstein.
These things change. Lincoln was a Republican. It meant something else then.
I don't want to get into a "Bernie could/should/would/ have won" thing, but the implosion of the GOP wasn't necessarily going to be a good thing for the Dems.
My state is all blue, we have a Republican governor and the Mayor of Chicago is perpetually indistinguishable from Mussolini. So I have no clue what these things are actually supposed to stand for.
Meh, we'll see who actually shows up this time in 2018.
Make one less safe space for racists/homophobes/Islamophobes/anti-Semites,
Heh. *click...click* Way ahead of ya.
posted by Smedleyman at 4:22 PM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
The Republican party is dead. Trump is Dr. Frankenstein.
These things change. Lincoln was a Republican. It meant something else then.
I don't want to get into a "Bernie could/should/would/ have won" thing, but the implosion of the GOP wasn't necessarily going to be a good thing for the Dems.
My state is all blue, we have a Republican governor and the Mayor of Chicago is perpetually indistinguishable from Mussolini. So I have no clue what these things are actually supposed to stand for.
Meh, we'll see who actually shows up this time in 2018.
Make one less safe space for racists/homophobes/Islamophobes/anti-Semites,
Heh. *click...click* Way ahead of ya.
posted by Smedleyman at 4:22 PM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
Does anyone have a line on a nice rear bumper for a green 1995 Subaru wagon that doesn't have a Bernie Sanders for President sticker on it?
Did you try putting lighter fluid on it? Not to light it on fire, but it's usually effective on most sticker glue.
(Zippo) Lighter fluid is basically naphtha, which you can often find in hardware and paint stores near the paint thinner and acetone and such.
posted by dirigibleman at 4:23 PM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
Did you try putting lighter fluid on it? Not to light it on fire, but it's usually effective on most sticker glue.
(Zippo) Lighter fluid is basically naphtha, which you can often find in hardware and paint stores near the paint thinner and acetone and such.
posted by dirigibleman at 4:23 PM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
I don't want to get into a "Bernie could/should/would/ have won" thing, but the implosion of the GOP wasn't necessarily going to be a good thing for the Dems.
The GOP was Saddam Hussein's Middle East. Trumpists are ISIS. One was really bad but when it blew up what replaced it is so much worse.
posted by Justinian at 4:25 PM on November 10, 2016 [11 favorites]
The GOP was Saddam Hussein's Middle East. Trumpists are ISIS. One was really bad but when it blew up what replaced it is so much worse.
posted by Justinian at 4:25 PM on November 10, 2016 [11 favorites]
jscalzi's The Cinemax Theory of Racism.
That's a great piece. But, and I felt this way after reading his piece a few weeks ago on his Trump-supporting neighbors (who he pals around with and engages in prank wars and such), he, too, is subscribing to Cinemax in those relationships. He has decided that the HBO of having good relationships with his neighbors (who are by his accounts great people, probably helped by the fact that Scalzi is an upper middle class straight white guy with a nuclear white family) is worth the Cinemax of tacitly condoning their racism. Writing about it on a blog is something, I guess, but it's quite literally the least you can do while still being able to say you do something.
posted by Justinian at 4:29 PM on November 10, 2016 [12 favorites]
That's a great piece. But, and I felt this way after reading his piece a few weeks ago on his Trump-supporting neighbors (who he pals around with and engages in prank wars and such), he, too, is subscribing to Cinemax in those relationships. He has decided that the HBO of having good relationships with his neighbors (who are by his accounts great people, probably helped by the fact that Scalzi is an upper middle class straight white guy with a nuclear white family) is worth the Cinemax of tacitly condoning their racism. Writing about it on a blog is something, I guess, but it's quite literally the least you can do while still being able to say you do something.
posted by Justinian at 4:29 PM on November 10, 2016 [12 favorites]
The hamsters in the Big Brother house were just informed of the election results by host Julie Chen. No Trump supporters left in the house right now.
*This is a super-smart feminist who finished law school in two years and is currently fooling everyone into thinking she's a dumb, superficial waitress while gracefully enduring a ton of personal attacks. I'd take her over Trump any day.
posted by acidic at 4:33 PM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
Morgan: A reality TV star is our President.Now they're begging to stay in the house for the next four years, proposing on-air to Big Brother Canada alums, talking "goodbye uterus" and "gotta build a bomb shelter", and actually offering some pretty accurate theories as to how it happened, despite zero knowledge of the past two months.
Shelby: I guess we all have hope then?*
*This is a super-smart feminist who finished law school in two years and is currently fooling everyone into thinking she's a dumb, superficial waitress while gracefully enduring a ton of personal attacks. I'd take her over Trump any day.
posted by acidic at 4:33 PM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
Writing about it on a blog is something, I guess, but it's quite literally the least you can do while still being able to say you do something.
What we know about Mr. Scalzi's life can fit in a thimble with room for Paul Ryan's heart and the combined consciences of the House Republicans.
Do good things as much as you can; nobody's going to be completely consistent, even with their own philosophy. Calls for purity of any kind are doomed to failure, and tend to create demagogues.
posted by Mooski at 4:35 PM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
What we know about Mr. Scalzi's life can fit in a thimble with room for Paul Ryan's heart and the combined consciences of the House Republicans.
Do good things as much as you can; nobody's going to be completely consistent, even with their own philosophy. Calls for purity of any kind are doomed to failure, and tend to create demagogues.
posted by Mooski at 4:35 PM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
Sure, and I would bet I'm not completely consistent either. And if somebody points that out on a blog or Metafilter or whatever, go for it.
posted by Justinian at 4:39 PM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Justinian at 4:39 PM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
Speaking of weapons, I've seen some online suggesting for the Democrats to drop gun control.
I dropped it after Sandy Hook. If 20 dead elementary school kids didn't change it, nothing will.
posted by kirkaracha at 4:41 PM on November 10, 2016 [16 favorites]
Charles Blow: America Elects a Bigot:
Mr. Trump will become this country’s 45th president. For me, it is a truly shocking fact, a bitter pill to swallow. I remain convinced that this is one of the worst possible people who could be elected president. I remain convinced that Trump has a fundamentally flawed character and is literally dangerous for world stability and injurious to America’s standing in that world.posted by palindromic at 4:48 PM on November 10, 2016 [29 favorites]
There is so much that I can’t fully comprehend.
It is hard to know specifically how to position yourself in a country that can elect a man with such staggering ineptitude and open animus. It makes you doubt whatever faith you had in the country itself.
Also, let me be clear: Businessman Donald Trump was a bigot. Candidate Donald Trump was a bigot. Republican nominee Donald Trump was a bigot. And I can only assume that President Donald Trump will be a bigot.
I feel bad for Kate McKinnon. She must've thought she had job security for the next 4-8 years.
posted by kirkaracha at 4:54 PM on November 10, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 4:54 PM on November 10, 2016 [8 favorites]
Yeah, and now SNL has to find someone to play Trump every week.
posted by jenfullmoon at 4:56 PM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by jenfullmoon at 4:56 PM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
t is super, super cool to see those who never supported her
Keep clinging to the hope that a Third Way, DLC Democrat is ever going get the things done that need done in this country.
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 4:56 PM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
Keep clinging to the hope that a Third Way, DLC Democrat is ever going get the things done that need done in this country.
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 4:56 PM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
Yeah, and now SNL has to find someone to play Trump every week.
A few Cease and Desist letters and those skits just sorta fade away.
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 4:57 PM on November 10, 2016 [8 favorites]
A few Cease and Desist letters and those skits just sorta fade away.
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 4:57 PM on November 10, 2016 [8 favorites]
Yeah, and now SNL has to find someone to play Trump every week.
If I'm Lorne Michaels, I'm representing him the way Peanuts represents adults. Off screen and via nothing but muted sad trombone sounds.
posted by tonycpsu at 4:58 PM on November 10, 2016 [31 favorites]
If I'm Lorne Michaels, I'm representing him the way Peanuts represents adults. Off screen and via nothing but muted sad trombone sounds.
posted by tonycpsu at 4:58 PM on November 10, 2016 [31 favorites]
But, and I felt this way after reading his piece a few weeks ago on his Trump-supporting neighbors (who he pals around with and engages in prank wars and such), he, too, is subscribing to Cinemax in those relationships. He has decided that the HBO of having good relationships with his neighbors (who are by his accounts great people, probably helped by the fact that Scalzi is an upper middle class straight white guy with a nuclear white family) is worth the Cinemax of tacitly condoning their racism.
Unbundle the package. Once the Obamacare repeals, the anti-immigration acts, the Muslim bans, whatever anti-LGBT stuff Pence gets into starts coming out, confront them about it. Reveal to them just what exactly the president they voted for is sponsoring. Show them the repercussions and how they would impact you and those whom you care about. Trump is such a complicated and self-contradictory mess that it's doubtful that most of his voters understood the full repercussions of what he would do. If they won't disavow the man, at least perhaps they can reject his specific actions.
posted by Apocryphon at 5:09 PM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
Unbundle the package. Once the Obamacare repeals, the anti-immigration acts, the Muslim bans, whatever anti-LGBT stuff Pence gets into starts coming out, confront them about it. Reveal to them just what exactly the president they voted for is sponsoring. Show them the repercussions and how they would impact you and those whom you care about. Trump is such a complicated and self-contradictory mess that it's doubtful that most of his voters understood the full repercussions of what he would do. If they won't disavow the man, at least perhaps they can reject his specific actions.
posted by Apocryphon at 5:09 PM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
So I get up from the drawing board (I've gone back and forth between drawing and reading MeFi since I got home), walk into the kitchen for a (second) glass of wine, and my mind went blissfully blank for a couple moments while I opened the bottle.
Completely unbidden, my mind shouts "WE FOLLOWED UP BARACK OBAMA WITH DONALD FUCKING TRUMP."
Reader, I switched to Bourbon.
posted by Mooski at 5:11 PM on November 10, 2016 [28 favorites]
Completely unbidden, my mind shouts "WE FOLLOWED UP BARACK OBAMA WITH DONALD FUCKING TRUMP."
Reader, I switched to Bourbon.
posted by Mooski at 5:11 PM on November 10, 2016 [28 favorites]
What Hillary Clinton means to me:
In 1992, my first grade teacher informed me that the US had never elected a woman as president. She said, "But I believe we will one day. It could be Hillary Clinton! Or it could be you." Knowing that Hillary aspired to do what women haven't been allowed to do inspired me to aspire.
When I was a young woman and going through anorexia, I struggled to believe that my talents, intelligence, or competence mattered if I wasn't "perfect" physically. When men tried to reduce and dismiss Hillary by saying she had "cankles" I could feel in my heart that it meant nothing compared to her brilliance and accomplishments. And watching her believe in herself, I believed I could have the same spirit, the same resistance.
When I chose my career (I'm a social worker), Hillary was in my mind as well. Her lifetime of public service has shown that power and nurturing are not dichotomous.
In my personal and professional life I have been condescended to, objectified, and called to justify myself by men. After watching Hillary handle the Benghazi hearings I had a role model to channel as I handled these incidences and the pervasive environment of sexism.
Yesterday, I was so heartsick, grief struck, and sleep deprived I didn't believe I could be emotionally available for my clients. Then I saw Hillary comforting her supporters one by one after her concession speech and I knew if she could do it, I could too. And I did.
We can argue about whether Bernie would have beat Trump, whether Hillary has too much "baggage", whether she made ideal choices in her campaign. But what will always be true to me is that I would not be who I am without Hillary and I will be forever grateful to her for fighting with grace and fire. And we will continue the fight, including nurturing, protecting, and loving as Hillary would.
posted by Waiting for Pierce Inverarity at 5:12 PM on November 10, 2016 [75 favorites]
In 1992, my first grade teacher informed me that the US had never elected a woman as president. She said, "But I believe we will one day. It could be Hillary Clinton! Or it could be you." Knowing that Hillary aspired to do what women haven't been allowed to do inspired me to aspire.
When I was a young woman and going through anorexia, I struggled to believe that my talents, intelligence, or competence mattered if I wasn't "perfect" physically. When men tried to reduce and dismiss Hillary by saying she had "cankles" I could feel in my heart that it meant nothing compared to her brilliance and accomplishments. And watching her believe in herself, I believed I could have the same spirit, the same resistance.
When I chose my career (I'm a social worker), Hillary was in my mind as well. Her lifetime of public service has shown that power and nurturing are not dichotomous.
In my personal and professional life I have been condescended to, objectified, and called to justify myself by men. After watching Hillary handle the Benghazi hearings I had a role model to channel as I handled these incidences and the pervasive environment of sexism.
Yesterday, I was so heartsick, grief struck, and sleep deprived I didn't believe I could be emotionally available for my clients. Then I saw Hillary comforting her supporters one by one after her concession speech and I knew if she could do it, I could too. And I did.
We can argue about whether Bernie would have beat Trump, whether Hillary has too much "baggage", whether she made ideal choices in her campaign. But what will always be true to me is that I would not be who I am without Hillary and I will be forever grateful to her for fighting with grace and fire. And we will continue the fight, including nurturing, protecting, and loving as Hillary would.
posted by Waiting for Pierce Inverarity at 5:12 PM on November 10, 2016 [75 favorites]
I just need a second to vent, MeFi. I am so done with white so-called allies who refuse to name--and thus refuse to actually confront and defeat--white supremacy and misogyny.
So instead, they retreat to safely deracinate, de-gengered blanket terms that allow them to deny white culpability in particular: it's "the working class" (uh, newsflash, guess who makes up a lot of the working class? POC who voted for Hillary!); or, it's "Gen X" or whatever.
And then when I tried to call one white so-called ally on this, this asshole had to nerve to first try to complain about "general low turnout" for Dems and point the finger at the 94% of Black women who voted for Hillary because their "enthusiasm was down." Right. The problem with the election was the 6% of Black women who didn't support Hillary... and somehow NOT the 53% of White women who voted for Trump!
I just cannot deal with people like this anymore. White allies, step up and actually bend your backs to this task.
And kind of along those lines, on the one hand I'm really, really pleased and heartened to see all of the protests going on. But I keep getting asked (by White friends) if I'm going to our local one, and I really just kind of feel like, "Nah, this one is all on you" at the moment. Because my people and my closest true allies--those whose lives have immediately become more precarious since 2am on Wednesday--came correct to this election.
posted by TwoStride at 5:13 PM on November 10, 2016 [68 favorites]
So instead, they retreat to safely deracinate, de-gengered blanket terms that allow them to deny white culpability in particular: it's "the working class" (uh, newsflash, guess who makes up a lot of the working class? POC who voted for Hillary!); or, it's "Gen X" or whatever.
And then when I tried to call one white so-called ally on this, this asshole had to nerve to first try to complain about "general low turnout" for Dems and point the finger at the 94% of Black women who voted for Hillary because their "enthusiasm was down." Right. The problem with the election was the 6% of Black women who didn't support Hillary... and somehow NOT the 53% of White women who voted for Trump!
I just cannot deal with people like this anymore. White allies, step up and actually bend your backs to this task.
And kind of along those lines, on the one hand I'm really, really pleased and heartened to see all of the protests going on. But I keep getting asked (by White friends) if I'm going to our local one, and I really just kind of feel like, "Nah, this one is all on you" at the moment. Because my people and my closest true allies--those whose lives have immediately become more precarious since 2am on Wednesday--came correct to this election.
posted by TwoStride at 5:13 PM on November 10, 2016 [68 favorites]
Oh, and on the topic of better allies: one small delight has been seeing no small number of my Korean evangelical friends just utterly shredding the hypocrisy--copious pertinent Biblical verses and all--of the White evangelical voters...
posted by TwoStride at 5:14 PM on November 10, 2016 [27 favorites]
posted by TwoStride at 5:14 PM on November 10, 2016 [27 favorites]
TwoStride, I would be very interested in seeing some of those verse justified take-downs.
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:26 PM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:26 PM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
Small data point regarding the protests: I was speaking to my family in Italy today trying desperately to make them understand what just happened to us. They are all horrified and alarmed and flabbergasted and some of these people voted for Berlusconi. They said they hoped the protests would continue so the world could remember the fact that Trump does not represent all of the US. They found them heartening, seemingly more powerful than just vocal opposition.
posted by lydhre at 5:29 PM on November 10, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by lydhre at 5:29 PM on November 10, 2016 [7 favorites]
this truly is a tragedy - somehow the democrats just didn't put it together - a candidate with too much baggage? - sheer misogony - a screwed up electoral system (but if the situation was reversed, the cries of "rigged" would be overwhelming) - a failure to communicate the message to more - although i felt she was brilliantly clear ...
moving forward (or backwards)
trump will become frustrated with the slow rate of change in washington - the infighting in his own party will be great - i think he will try to get congress or the state legislatures to call for a 2nd constitutional convention
which would be a complete mess if it happens
there's going to be protest and civil unrest - people have pointed out the fears that white people are going to be emboldened to acts of blunt oppression - but it's worse than that - i think the militia/soveriegn citizens movement is going to take this as their chance to force the government to their side and trump will foolishly create martyrs - after which, we will have a low grade insurrection on our hands that won't be ended easily
in the meantime, i think trump's base is going to be disappointed - the man is not going to deliver on the economy - the factory jobs aren't coming back - the coal mines aren't all going to reopen - and, really, the millenial generation doesn't want jobs in a coal mine or a factory
oh, and that wall isn't going to be built because mexico won't pay for it and neither will congress
sometime in the next 4 years, the red state half are finally going to realize just how badly they've been conned
all hell will break loose
in the meantime, the rest of us better figure out what kind of future we want to build and how
posted by pyramid termite at 5:30 PM on November 10, 2016 [8 favorites]
moving forward (or backwards)
trump will become frustrated with the slow rate of change in washington - the infighting in his own party will be great - i think he will try to get congress or the state legislatures to call for a 2nd constitutional convention
which would be a complete mess if it happens
there's going to be protest and civil unrest - people have pointed out the fears that white people are going to be emboldened to acts of blunt oppression - but it's worse than that - i think the militia/soveriegn citizens movement is going to take this as their chance to force the government to their side and trump will foolishly create martyrs - after which, we will have a low grade insurrection on our hands that won't be ended easily
in the meantime, i think trump's base is going to be disappointed - the man is not going to deliver on the economy - the factory jobs aren't coming back - the coal mines aren't all going to reopen - and, really, the millenial generation doesn't want jobs in a coal mine or a factory
oh, and that wall isn't going to be built because mexico won't pay for it and neither will congress
sometime in the next 4 years, the red state half are finally going to realize just how badly they've been conned
all hell will break loose
in the meantime, the rest of us better figure out what kind of future we want to build and how
posted by pyramid termite at 5:30 PM on November 10, 2016 [8 favorites]
The Trump Memos: The ACLU has released a report on the Constitutional implications of Trump's stated positions. [PDF]
posted by Rykey at 5:33 PM on November 10, 2016 [29 favorites]
posted by Rykey at 5:33 PM on November 10, 2016 [29 favorites]
So I posted that Day 1 roundup on my facebook, asking my friends who voted for Trump what they're personally planning on doing to stop this, since they normalized it and gave it a mandate. So far I've gotten two responses - both of them essentially saying these were "agents provocateurs" and/or fake. One of them was Jewish.
Yeah I stupidly posted in comments on a Trump person's post and immediately got five replies saying all these incidents are sponsored by the DNC and financed by Soros. Unbelievable.
posted by Cocodrillo at 5:34 PM on November 10, 2016 [8 favorites]
I'm seeing a lot of statements from Trumpenfolk like "this is what happens when you tell people what to do." I am not inclined to be especially empathetic with somebody whose primary driving ethos is "you can't tell me what to do."
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:35 PM on November 10, 2016 [15 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:35 PM on November 10, 2016 [15 favorites]
statements from Trumpenfolk like "this is what happens when you tell people what to do."
QFT. This is what happens when eight years of right-wing echo chamber media, topped off with an orange demagague President Elect, tells people what to do.
posted by Rykey at 5:38 PM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
QFT. This is what happens when eight years of right-wing echo chamber media, topped off with an orange demagague President Elect, tells people what to do.
posted by Rykey at 5:38 PM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
sponsored by the DNC and financed by Soros
i mean like all other obvious responses aside these shitsmeared cretins clearly have no idea about the incomprehensibly slow pace of nonprofit funding
posted by poffin boffin at 5:39 PM on November 10, 2016 [11 favorites]
i mean like all other obvious responses aside these shitsmeared cretins clearly have no idea about the incomprehensibly slow pace of nonprofit funding
posted by poffin boffin at 5:39 PM on November 10, 2016 [11 favorites]
For anyone interested, here is Julie Chen telling the last six houseguests about Donald Trump winning the presidency. Very surreal moment.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:41 PM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:41 PM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
The rules for survival in an autocracy, by Masha Gessen:
Rule #1: Believe the autocrat. He means what he says.posted by acb at 5:42 PM on November 10, 2016 [77 favorites]
Rule #2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule #3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule #4: Be outraged.
Rule #5: Don’t make compromises.
Rule #6: Remember the future.
Huffington Post: "DNC Staffer Screams At Donna Brazile For Helping Elect Donald Trump"
Donna Brazile, the interim leader of the Democratic National Committee, was giving what one attendee described as “a rip-roaring speech” to about 150 employees, about the need to have hope for wins going forward, when a staffer identified only as Zach stood up with a question.
“Why should we trust you as chair to lead us through this?” he asked, according to two people in the room. “You backed a flawed candidate, and your friend [former DNC chair Debbie Wasserman Schultz] plotted through this to support your own gain and yourself.”
Some DNC staffers started to boo and some told him to sit down. Brazile began to answer, but Zach had more to say.
“You are part of the problem,” he continued, blaming Brazile for clearing the path for Trump’s victory by siding with Clinton early on. “You and your friends will die of old age and I’m going to die from climate change. You and your friends let this happen, which is going to cut 40 years off my life expectancy.”
Zach gathered his things and began to walk out. When Brazile called after him, asking where he was going, he told her to go outside and “tell people there” why she should be leading the party.
posted by Apocryphon at 5:42 PM on November 10, 2016 [9 favorites]
Donna Brazile, the interim leader of the Democratic National Committee, was giving what one attendee described as “a rip-roaring speech” to about 150 employees, about the need to have hope for wins going forward, when a staffer identified only as Zach stood up with a question.
“Why should we trust you as chair to lead us through this?” he asked, according to two people in the room. “You backed a flawed candidate, and your friend [former DNC chair Debbie Wasserman Schultz] plotted through this to support your own gain and yourself.”
Some DNC staffers started to boo and some told him to sit down. Brazile began to answer, but Zach had more to say.
“You are part of the problem,” he continued, blaming Brazile for clearing the path for Trump’s victory by siding with Clinton early on. “You and your friends will die of old age and I’m going to die from climate change. You and your friends let this happen, which is going to cut 40 years off my life expectancy.”
Zach gathered his things and began to walk out. When Brazile called after him, asking where he was going, he told her to go outside and “tell people there” why she should be leading the party.
posted by Apocryphon at 5:42 PM on November 10, 2016 [9 favorites]
The GOP is going to scrap the filibuster. I hope the Democrats have the spine to adopt the obstructionism of the recent GOP, but I doubt it.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:42 PM on November 10, 2016
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:42 PM on November 10, 2016
If the GOP scraps the filibuster they don't have any tools to adopt.
posted by Justinian at 5:44 PM on November 10, 2016
posted by Justinian at 5:44 PM on November 10, 2016
And now Leonard Cohen has died.
posted by drezdn at 5:52 PM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by drezdn at 5:52 PM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
And now Leonard Cohen is dead. I can't.
posted by waitingtoderail at 5:52 PM on November 10, 2016
posted by waitingtoderail at 5:52 PM on November 10, 2016
Jesus fucking Christ.
posted by Sophie1 at 5:53 PM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Sophie1 at 5:53 PM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
the future's murder
posted by pyramid termite at 5:53 PM on November 10, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by pyramid termite at 5:53 PM on November 10, 2016 [8 favorites]
Yeah, and now SNL has to find someone to play Trump every week.
As a regular SNL watcher, I would be perfectly happy to not be reminded of Trump's existence every time I watch the show.
posted by wondermouse at 5:53 PM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
As a regular SNL watcher, I would be perfectly happy to not be reminded of Trump's existence every time I watch the show.
posted by wondermouse at 5:53 PM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
Donald Trump Wins Election and Indian Country Holds Its Breath
What the Trump Victory Means for Standing Rock: The Sioux tribe is facing a pro-oil president-elect with personal investments riding on the completion of the Dakota Access pipeline.
Leader of the Standing Rock Sioux on Prayers and a President Trump: “We’re about protecting our future. And that’s what he should be about.”
posted by homunculus at 5:54 PM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
What the Trump Victory Means for Standing Rock: The Sioux tribe is facing a pro-oil president-elect with personal investments riding on the completion of the Dakota Access pipeline.
Leader of the Standing Rock Sioux on Prayers and a President Trump: “We’re about protecting our future. And that’s what he should be about.”
posted by homunculus at 5:54 PM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
Dammit, 2016. What the actual fuck.
posted by kaibutsu at 5:54 PM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by kaibutsu at 5:54 PM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
As a regular SNL watcher, I would be perfectly happy to not be reminded of Trump's existence every time I watch the show.
That would probably the most hilarious way they could handle him.
posted by drezdn at 5:54 PM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
That would probably the most hilarious way they could handle him.
posted by drezdn at 5:54 PM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
And now Leonard Cohen has died.
This is the darkest timeline.
posted by dis_integration at 5:57 PM on November 10, 2016 [11 favorites]
This is the darkest timeline.
posted by dis_integration at 5:57 PM on November 10, 2016 [11 favorites]
Does anyone have a pencil I can use? I need to add "flawed candidate," "neo-liberal," "technocracy," and "be nice to racists" to my Charming Codewords list, just below "redpill," "cuck," and "it's actually about ethics in game journalism."
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:57 PM on November 10, 2016 [16 favorites]
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:57 PM on November 10, 2016 [16 favorites]
2 personal anecdotes and then a summation of my thoughts at this moment.
My daughter in California is a personal caretaker for a nonagenarian, Mrs. C. Mrs. C's priest stopped by the day after the election and they discussed the results. The priest told her that there was only one candidate a good Catholic could possibly support. Mrs. C replied she voted for Clinton. The priest then spent a good 15 minutes berating her and trying to make feel bad about her vote. After he left my daughter stepped in to soothe her and remind her of all the good reasons there were to support Clinton. And the two of them comforted each other.
Right after the Bus video came out I talked to my mom in Cali and my father-in-law here in NC. Both life-long Republicans were horrified. Both repudiated Trump completely and utterly. Both ultimately ended up voting for him. They both told me "I voted for my Party."
Which brings me to my thoughts as this moment in time. I think we were just very, very unlucky. There were several things that happened to line-up in the wrong way for us. If the Bus video had come out a week before the election. If the Voting Rights Act had been upheld rather than struck down. If Comey had kept his mouth shut. If. If. If. Our tragedy is that it could so easily have gone the other way and the cracks in the Republican party would have widened and been harder to paper over. As it is we are stuck out here in the wilderness with no clear map to guide us back home and the Republicans have a secure hold on all three branches of the government.
I'm not ready to start with the circular firing squad. I think we need to time to process our loss and we need a better understanding of exactly what went wrong. I'm so sad and so sorry and so worried for everyone-- even those sad, dumb deplorables who shot themselves in the foot. They have elected a Con Artist who will be hell bent on enriching himself and enacting revenge. Neither of those two things will help anybody.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:58 PM on November 10, 2016 [24 favorites]
My daughter in California is a personal caretaker for a nonagenarian, Mrs. C. Mrs. C's priest stopped by the day after the election and they discussed the results. The priest told her that there was only one candidate a good Catholic could possibly support. Mrs. C replied she voted for Clinton. The priest then spent a good 15 minutes berating her and trying to make feel bad about her vote. After he left my daughter stepped in to soothe her and remind her of all the good reasons there were to support Clinton. And the two of them comforted each other.
Right after the Bus video came out I talked to my mom in Cali and my father-in-law here in NC. Both life-long Republicans were horrified. Both repudiated Trump completely and utterly. Both ultimately ended up voting for him. They both told me "I voted for my Party."
Which brings me to my thoughts as this moment in time. I think we were just very, very unlucky. There were several things that happened to line-up in the wrong way for us. If the Bus video had come out a week before the election. If the Voting Rights Act had been upheld rather than struck down. If Comey had kept his mouth shut. If. If. If. Our tragedy is that it could so easily have gone the other way and the cracks in the Republican party would have widened and been harder to paper over. As it is we are stuck out here in the wilderness with no clear map to guide us back home and the Republicans have a secure hold on all three branches of the government.
I'm not ready to start with the circular firing squad. I think we need to time to process our loss and we need a better understanding of exactly what went wrong. I'm so sad and so sorry and so worried for everyone-- even those sad, dumb deplorables who shot themselves in the foot. They have elected a Con Artist who will be hell bent on enriching himself and enacting revenge. Neither of those two things will help anybody.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:58 PM on November 10, 2016 [24 favorites]
This is the darkest timeline.
The cob planet is starting to look appealing.
posted by drezdn at 6:00 PM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
Oh god, not Leonard, not NOW. Let's all sing "Democracy" and weep.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:00 PM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:00 PM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
If you haven't watched Adam Curtis' Hypernormalization yet I would like to recommend that you do at some point. It is long and perhaps meandering, difficult at times in the use of some graphic footage, and does not end on a high note - but the end is particularly important.
posted by Golem XIV at 6:01 PM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Golem XIV at 6:01 PM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
On the upside I am saving a lot of money on food this week.
posted by Senor Cardgage at 6:02 PM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by Senor Cardgage at 6:02 PM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
We should remember that the FBI, the New York FBI, went out of their way to help get Trump elected by pressuring Comey, and that they did this because they were angry that the Justice Department wanted to pursue charges in the Eric Garner case, as well as not being allowed to go forward with a partisan Clinton Foundation investigation.
Obviously our justice system is overall white supremacist, but by helping elect Trump they now have a leader that will not hold them in check. In fact, Trump's whole history, since the Central Park 5, is to use racial hate to justify an increase in police force, such as to argue for corporal punishment. We don't know yet who Trump will appoint to high positions, but it could be Giuliani or even Arpaio. His whole fake black outreach was that their communities are full of crime and that we need law and order. I guess I'm just saying this so that everyone knows that we all need to vocally support movements like Black Lives Matter more than ever, and the NAACP, and the ACLU, etc.
Is there any good information about how to deal with police these days? If we consider Trump voters to be a 'white lash', remember the police that posed with Trump, and remember the ICE union endorsing Trump. I feel ill just writing this.
posted by airish at 6:02 PM on November 10, 2016 [32 favorites]
Obviously our justice system is overall white supremacist, but by helping elect Trump they now have a leader that will not hold them in check. In fact, Trump's whole history, since the Central Park 5, is to use racial hate to justify an increase in police force, such as to argue for corporal punishment. We don't know yet who Trump will appoint to high positions, but it could be Giuliani or even Arpaio. His whole fake black outreach was that their communities are full of crime and that we need law and order. I guess I'm just saying this so that everyone knows that we all need to vocally support movements like Black Lives Matter more than ever, and the NAACP, and the ACLU, etc.
Is there any good information about how to deal with police these days? If we consider Trump voters to be a 'white lash', remember the police that posed with Trump, and remember the ICE union endorsing Trump. I feel ill just writing this.
posted by airish at 6:02 PM on November 10, 2016 [32 favorites]
Leonard Cohen. Poor man, what terrible last days we gave him. I was thinking when all this went down that it would push the old and the frail to die sooner out of heartbreak.
I'm seeing a lot of statements from Trumpenfolk like "this is what happens when you tell people what to do." I am not inclined to be especially empathetic with somebody whose primary driving ethos is "you can't tell me what to do."
Yeah? People's response to being "told what to do" is to call school children by racial slurs? Big men, you Trump people, you're big men.
I don't know. I think we've elected a Hitler. I thought it would be bad, but I didn't think it would be as bad as it's shaping up.
posted by Frowner at 6:03 PM on November 10, 2016 [20 favorites]
I'm seeing a lot of statements from Trumpenfolk like "this is what happens when you tell people what to do." I am not inclined to be especially empathetic with somebody whose primary driving ethos is "you can't tell me what to do."
Yeah? People's response to being "told what to do" is to call school children by racial slurs? Big men, you Trump people, you're big men.
I don't know. I think we've elected a Hitler. I thought it would be bad, but I didn't think it would be as bad as it's shaping up.
posted by Frowner at 6:03 PM on November 10, 2016 [20 favorites]
I'm beginning to get our new government confused with that nice president on Designated Survivor.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:04 PM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:04 PM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
> A madman has been given the keys to the surveillance state
Obama has handed a surveillance state and war machine to a maniac: Trump will have a vast national security and military apparatus at his disposal, including a nuclear arsenal, to wreak havoc in the US and abroad
posted by homunculus at 6:05 PM on November 10, 2016 [8 favorites]
Obama has handed a surveillance state and war machine to a maniac: Trump will have a vast national security and military apparatus at his disposal, including a nuclear arsenal, to wreak havoc in the US and abroad
posted by homunculus at 6:05 PM on November 10, 2016 [8 favorites]
i remember when i was very young how a good part of a generation rebelled against what their elders were trying to make them do
i wonder if this generation will rebel even more
why the hell shouldn't they? they have even less reason to respect their elders after this election
posted by pyramid termite at 6:08 PM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
i wonder if this generation will rebel even more
why the hell shouldn't they? they have even less reason to respect their elders after this election
posted by pyramid termite at 6:08 PM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
why the hell shouldn't they? they have even less reason to respect their elders after this election
Well that and whole lot more at stake. Nothing big though, just literally their future survival.
posted by Jalliah at 6:11 PM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
Well that and whole lot more at stake. Nothing big though, just literally their future survival.
posted by Jalliah at 6:11 PM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
"First we take Manhattan, then we take Berlin"
posted by clavdivs at 6:12 PM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by clavdivs at 6:12 PM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
wonder if this generation will rebel even more
Oh hell no, remember '68.
posted by clavdivs at 6:14 PM on November 10, 2016
Oh hell no, remember '68.
posted by clavdivs at 6:14 PM on November 10, 2016
Well that and whole lot more at stake. Nothing big though, just literally their future survival.
They're far more at risk from rebelling than their parents ever were.
Oh, here's a pleasant thought: Remember how the Russians hacked the State Department and the DNC? Look forward to more hacking, against any target you could possibly imagine opposing Trump.
I keep hoping that I'm wrong. I keep hoping that some of this isn't going to happen, that somehow the electoral college will pull off an upset or that this is some kind of nightmare.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 6:14 PM on November 10, 2016
They're far more at risk from rebelling than their parents ever were.
Oh, here's a pleasant thought: Remember how the Russians hacked the State Department and the DNC? Look forward to more hacking, against any target you could possibly imagine opposing Trump.
I keep hoping that I'm wrong. I keep hoping that some of this isn't going to happen, that somehow the electoral college will pull off an upset or that this is some kind of nightmare.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 6:14 PM on November 10, 2016
Well, we can start the People Trump Killed List with Leonard Cohen. (Although a little research would have uncovered plenty more 'construction accidents' and 'casino suicides')
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:17 PM on November 10, 2016
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:17 PM on November 10, 2016
They're far more at risk from rebelling than their parents ever were.
i think they're more at risk from not rebelling - although, i've got to point out that OUR existence in the 60s wasn't assured, either - in fact, much of what we worried about has happened
posted by pyramid termite at 6:19 PM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
i think they're more at risk from not rebelling - although, i've got to point out that OUR existence in the 60s wasn't assured, either - in fact, much of what we worried about has happened
posted by pyramid termite at 6:19 PM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
Oh hell no, remember '68.
My prediction is that they will rebel. You're seeing the start of it right now. It likely wane and then start up again once Trump starts doing whatever it is he's going to do.
Then he's going to crack down and protestors are going to be killed by the state.
After that it's ??
Either people are going to freak and say hell no and decide that it's serious enough to keep putting their lives at risk and die for the cause or the masses will shut up and take it.
posted by Jalliah at 6:20 PM on November 10, 2016
My prediction is that they will rebel. You're seeing the start of it right now. It likely wane and then start up again once Trump starts doing whatever it is he's going to do.
Then he's going to crack down and protestors are going to be killed by the state.
After that it's ??
Either people are going to freak and say hell no and decide that it's serious enough to keep putting their lives at risk and die for the cause or the masses will shut up and take it.
posted by Jalliah at 6:20 PM on November 10, 2016
It's both terrifying and comforting to read these threads. Since the election result I have come to them less often and been throwing myself into my work - as they say in the classics - in order to maintain some measure of equilibrium. I live far away from the epicentre of fear and loathing but I worry for all of us, and check in periodically for news and views. I approach with dread, I leave better-informed, and sometimes even with a lifted heart. MeFites, much love.
posted by valetta at 6:22 PM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by valetta at 6:22 PM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
Oh, here's a pleasant thought: Remember how the Russians hacked the State Department and the DNC? Look forward to more hacking, against any target you could possibly imagine opposing Trump.
I keep hoping that I'm wrong. I keep hoping that some of this isn't going to happen, that somehow the electoral college will pull off an upset or that this is some kind of nightmare.
No you're not wrong. It's already started. There is an article upthread somewhere talking about the group that did the hacks. They targeting NGO's now with malware and who know what.
Sorry. :(
posted by Jalliah at 6:22 PM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
I keep hoping that I'm wrong. I keep hoping that some of this isn't going to happen, that somehow the electoral college will pull off an upset or that this is some kind of nightmare.
No you're not wrong. It's already started. There is an article upthread somewhere talking about the group that did the hacks. They targeting NGO's now with malware and who know what.
Sorry. :(
posted by Jalliah at 6:22 PM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
The hamsters in the Big Brother house were just informed of the election results by host Julie Chen.
Does anyone remember that scene in Lost where Jack (?) wakes up and is told, among other things, that Bush got re-elected?
The existential horror of that moment really hits me.
Incidentally (and this should go into Ask MeFi, except that it's such a trivial request), I really, really want a post-TFA Star Wars fanfic featuring General Leia kicking ass.
Anyone have any recommendations?
posted by steady-state strawberry at 6:22 PM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
Does anyone remember that scene in Lost where Jack (?) wakes up and is told, among other things, that Bush got re-elected?
The existential horror of that moment really hits me.
Incidentally (and this should go into Ask MeFi, except that it's such a trivial request), I really, really want a post-TFA Star Wars fanfic featuring General Leia kicking ass.
Anyone have any recommendations?
posted by steady-state strawberry at 6:22 PM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
Speaking of the Electoral College. One of the many political podcasts I listened to today (probably the NYTimes The Run Up) suggested that one way Republicans will attempt to retain control of the votes is that Red Governors in Blue states will push for splitting the Electoral votes. There will also be more monkeying around with IDs and limiting polling stations so that the "wrong" people find it harder to vote because that worked out great in NC; the GOP got exactly the results they wanted.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:25 PM on November 10, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:25 PM on November 10, 2016 [8 favorites]
I think she has some action sequences in "Life Debt" although that takes place before TFA.
posted by drezdn at 6:26 PM on November 10, 2016
posted by drezdn at 6:26 PM on November 10, 2016
He is tweeting.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:27 PM on November 10, 2016
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:27 PM on November 10, 2016
One of my biggest worries now is that groups like ISIS realize that when Trump is faced with an attack his first response is to lash out. Such an attitude seems to square perfectly with the goals of terrorism. Plus, if Trump really puts someone like Sheriff David Clarke in charge of Homeland Security, it really feels like we're headed down a dark path.
posted by drezdn at 6:30 PM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by drezdn at 6:30 PM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
Using the old, dull chisel JUST DIDN'T WORK.
Disagree. 30 years of worldwide bullshit will bury almost anyone.
posted by petebest at 6:31 PM on November 10, 2016 [7 favorites]
Disagree. 30 years of worldwide bullshit will bury almost anyone.
posted by petebest at 6:31 PM on November 10, 2016 [7 favorites]
Just had a very open and successful presidential election. Now professional protesters, incited by the media, are protesting. Very unfair! (real, now I'm mad all over again)
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:32 PM on November 10, 2016 [14 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:32 PM on November 10, 2016 [14 favorites]
"Just had a very open and successful presidential election. Now professional protesters, incited by the media, are protesting. Very unfair!"
He sounds Very Presidential.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:32 PM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
He sounds Very Presidential.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:32 PM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
Unfortunately liberals seem to want a candidate with a compelling narrative that doesn't have any flaws and who is charismatic and kind and unfortunately those sorts of people don't typically enter into politics because politics is ugly and messy and it's about constant compromise.
Republican voters seem to understand this and will vote for the person that is going to get them the majority of what they want. Minority voters seem to understand this as well because they will continually vote for candidates that give them a chance at a better future. What I do see among many white liberals is that we fall victim to the both sides are just as bad logic and we disengage. We disengage because frankly for many of us there are no deep and lasting consequences either way
I am repeating this because it is important and related to the next comment:
remember getting temporarily banned, and having several comments removed because I dared insist that I was in the Sanders/Trump demographic (though I eventually voted for Clinton)... which I was repeatedly told didn't exist.
The existence of this demographic was never a surprise to me--indeed, I expected it and also got shouted down and called "divisive" and "insulting" for suggesting its existence. The white liberal left didn't want to believe these people existed because the white liberal left hates being told there exists a moral imperative to compromise their ideological purity. It is the same reason third party voters got so offended if one mentioned that voting third party in the face of someone like Trump is an act of privilege, not protest.
The fact that so many of these people are now blaming Clinton indicates this will not be changing any time soon.
posted by Anonymous at 6:33 PM on November 10, 2016
Republican voters seem to understand this and will vote for the person that is going to get them the majority of what they want. Minority voters seem to understand this as well because they will continually vote for candidates that give them a chance at a better future. What I do see among many white liberals is that we fall victim to the both sides are just as bad logic and we disengage. We disengage because frankly for many of us there are no deep and lasting consequences either way
I am repeating this because it is important and related to the next comment:
remember getting temporarily banned, and having several comments removed because I dared insist that I was in the Sanders/Trump demographic (though I eventually voted for Clinton)... which I was repeatedly told didn't exist.
The existence of this demographic was never a surprise to me--indeed, I expected it and also got shouted down and called "divisive" and "insulting" for suggesting its existence. The white liberal left didn't want to believe these people existed because the white liberal left hates being told there exists a moral imperative to compromise their ideological purity. It is the same reason third party voters got so offended if one mentioned that voting third party in the face of someone like Trump is an act of privilege, not protest.
The fact that so many of these people are now blaming Clinton indicates this will not be changing any time soon.
posted by Anonymous at 6:33 PM on November 10, 2016
I am utterly biased and of course angry.
That tweet is him whining right? Like literally whining.
posted by Jalliah at 6:34 PM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
GOP is going to scrap the filibuster
They only have a two seat majority, with at least three #NeverTrumpers. I don't think they will. Not when those three know what the purpose is.
posted by corb at 6:34 PM on November 10, 2016 [9 favorites]
They only have a two seat majority, with at least three #NeverTrumpers. I don't think they will. Not when those three know what the purpose is.
posted by corb at 6:34 PM on November 10, 2016 [9 favorites]
So I finally had my first laugh today since the election. Was commiserating with my teenaged niece, who is beyond upset right now, and she told me her father voted for Stein. Her father is quite conservative and very #nevertrump. Almost the stereotype of a taciturn, grumpy-and-growly Kansas man of the soil. Was enthusiastic about McCain and Romney. Supported the tea party stuff. Lifelong Republican.
And now he voted for Stein. Even after I tried to sell him on Egg. He and I agreed Johnson was too pathetic for even a protest vote. I didn't mention Stein because I didn't think he'd be remotely interested. But not only did he register his protest, turns out he actually likes the Greens, liked Bernie, and is now interested in stuff that's vaguely socialist populism. This is just a complete 180 and the rest of the family is mystified.
posted by honestcoyote at 6:35 PM on November 10, 2016 [12 favorites]
And now he voted for Stein. Even after I tried to sell him on Egg. He and I agreed Johnson was too pathetic for even a protest vote. I didn't mention Stein because I didn't think he'd be remotely interested. But not only did he register his protest, turns out he actually likes the Greens, liked Bernie, and is now interested in stuff that's vaguely socialist populism. This is just a complete 180 and the rest of the family is mystified.
posted by honestcoyote at 6:35 PM on November 10, 2016 [12 favorites]
Speaking of the Electoral College. One of the many political podcasts I listened to today (probably the NYTimes The Run Up) suggested that one way Republicans will attempt to retain control of the votes is that Red Governors in Blue states will push for splitting the Electoral votes. There will also be more monkeying around with IDs and limiting polling stations so that the "wrong" people find it harder to vote because that worked out great in NC; the GOP got exactly the results they wanted.
Yes, we absolutely need to be on guard for this. It's imperative for Democrats to take back as many governorships and state legislatures as possible to prevent this kind of chicanery.
posted by tobascodagama at 6:35 PM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
Yes, we absolutely need to be on guard for this. It's imperative for Democrats to take back as many governorships and state legislatures as possible to prevent this kind of chicanery.
posted by tobascodagama at 6:35 PM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
I don't know. I think we've elected a Hitler. I thought it would be bad, but I didn't think it would be as bad as it's shaping up.
"Hans... are we the baddies?"
posted by dmh at 6:36 PM on November 10, 2016 [9 favorites]
"Hans... are we the baddies?"
posted by dmh at 6:36 PM on November 10, 2016 [9 favorites]
So, when do we arrest Hillary Clinton? Is it now or will that wait until January?
posted by Chrischris at 6:36 PM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Chrischris at 6:36 PM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
They only have a two seat majority, with at least three #NeverTrumpers. I don't think they will. Not when those three know what the purpose is.
With all respect corb, but I think it's probably time we don't depend on the courageous ethics of Republicans any longer.
posted by TypographicalError at 6:37 PM on November 10, 2016 [50 favorites]
With all respect corb, but I think it's probably time we don't depend on the courageous ethics of Republicans any longer.
posted by TypographicalError at 6:37 PM on November 10, 2016 [50 favorites]
So, when do we arrest Hillary Clinton?
Arresting her? I thought we were burning her for a witch. Or for being a neoliberal who should have known her "baggage" would mean she could never be elected no matter how qualified she was or how hard she prepared.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:42 PM on November 10, 2016 [11 favorites]
Arresting her? I thought we were burning her for a witch. Or for being a neoliberal who should have known her "baggage" would mean she could never be elected no matter how qualified she was or how hard she prepared.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:42 PM on November 10, 2016 [11 favorites]
Speaking of the Electoral College. One of the many political podcasts I listened to today (probably the NYTimes The Run Up) suggested that one way Republicans will attempt to retain control of the votes is that Red Governors in Blue states will push for splitting the Electoral votes.
Nevada, Minnesota could fall in 2018, Florida is pretty gerrymandered which could give Republicans 15-16 permanent electoral votes. There aren't that many blue states that the Republicans control lock, stock, and barrel.
posted by Talez at 6:42 PM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
Nevada, Minnesota could fall in 2018, Florida is pretty gerrymandered which could give Republicans 15-16 permanent electoral votes. There aren't that many blue states that the Republicans control lock, stock, and barrel.
posted by Talez at 6:42 PM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
Saddest post I've seen today:
"At this point, if a clown invited me into the woods, I'd just go."
posted by rabbitrabbit at 6:43 PM on November 10, 2016 [47 favorites]
"At this point, if a clown invited me into the woods, I'd just go."
posted by rabbitrabbit at 6:43 PM on November 10, 2016 [47 favorites]
"Just had a very open and successful presidential election. Now professional protesters, incited by the media, are protesting. Very unfair!"
Wow. Donald.... don't.
posted by wondermouse at 6:43 PM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
Wow. Donald.... don't.
posted by wondermouse at 6:43 PM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
The difference between the Rs and Ds is that the Rs had a long term game plan and they've been implementing it for decades.
It's entirely pathetic that so many Rs denounced Trump when he is the embodiment of their cause and goals.
They seek and have always (at least since the 60s/) sought destruction.
Dems have historically considered those kinds of tactics below them...too sophisticated to treat Rs the way the Clintons have been treated for decades...calling them out for all real and mostly made up improprieties.
It's way beyond time to start using the same tactics.
EVERY IMPROPRIETY, FAILING, MINOR SCANDAL...MUST BE MADE PUBLIC KNOWLEDGE AND PROSECUTED TO THE FULLEST EXTENT OF THE LAW.
One of the reasons the Clintons and Dems in general have been so fucked over for so many years is because they respond to insanity with REASON and INTELLIGENCE instead of FIRING BACK. When so much depends on one's actions...every measure must be taken. None of us is too good, too intelligent, too worldly or civilized to FIGHT FIRE WITH FIRE when so much is at stake.
I blame much of the South for being too proud to ever concede after the Civil War...I blame liberal/Dems for being too proud to get dirty and fight it out. Let fire beget fire, motherfuckers.
(For the record, I'm listening to Husker Du/Zen Arcade right now.)
Trump will be in office, but this shit isn't over.
posted by 1980sPunkersForHillary.com at 6:45 PM on November 10, 2016 [12 favorites]
It's entirely pathetic that so many Rs denounced Trump when he is the embodiment of their cause and goals.
They seek and have always (at least since the 60s/) sought destruction.
Dems have historically considered those kinds of tactics below them...too sophisticated to treat Rs the way the Clintons have been treated for decades...calling them out for all real and mostly made up improprieties.
It's way beyond time to start using the same tactics.
EVERY IMPROPRIETY, FAILING, MINOR SCANDAL...MUST BE MADE PUBLIC KNOWLEDGE AND PROSECUTED TO THE FULLEST EXTENT OF THE LAW.
One of the reasons the Clintons and Dems in general have been so fucked over for so many years is because they respond to insanity with REASON and INTELLIGENCE instead of FIRING BACK. When so much depends on one's actions...every measure must be taken. None of us is too good, too intelligent, too worldly or civilized to FIGHT FIRE WITH FIRE when so much is at stake.
I blame much of the South for being too proud to ever concede after the Civil War...I blame liberal/Dems for being too proud to get dirty and fight it out. Let fire beget fire, motherfuckers.
(For the record, I'm listening to Husker Du/Zen Arcade right now.)
Trump will be in office, but this shit isn't over.
posted by 1980sPunkersForHillary.com at 6:45 PM on November 10, 2016 [12 favorites]
> Welcome to Trump's America: 58 reports of people bullied by emboldened bigots — and the list is growing: (warning: auto-play video somewhere on the page, lots of images and stories of people being terrible)
Heartbreak and Outrage as Minorities Recount "Day 1 in Trump's America": Kids as young as kindergartners are being harassed across the US
posted by homunculus at 6:46 PM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
Heartbreak and Outrage as Minorities Recount "Day 1 in Trump's America": Kids as young as kindergartners are being harassed across the US
posted by homunculus at 6:46 PM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
He's gonna keep tweeting?! I mean of course he is, but … ugh
posted by glhaynes at 6:47 PM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by glhaynes at 6:47 PM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
No I literally mean arrest her. It was a campaign promise and I intend to see if mr trump means it it or if he was lying. Someone needs to ask him. Did president Obama ask him? If not, what does that say about mr Obama?
posted by Chrischris at 6:47 PM on November 10, 2016
posted by Chrischris at 6:47 PM on November 10, 2016
Dude writes this while literally using media to incite people.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 6:48 PM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 6:48 PM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
After seeing all the incidents Shaun King and others have documented, the mere idea of the Donald complaining about the media, or anyone, "inciting" anything is like the ultimate fucking example of Trump's Mirror. Jesus wept.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:48 PM on November 10, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:48 PM on November 10, 2016 [8 favorites]
"Just had a very open and successful presidential election. Now professional protesters, incited by the media, are protesting. Very unfair!"
This is just the beginning. Who could take his twitter away now? Maybe in 3 years, but he just won the biggest stunner in recent memory, if not ever. The FAA just put up a flight restriction over his house. I can hear his ego inflating from Los Angeles.
posted by feloniousmonk at 6:48 PM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
This is just the beginning. Who could take his twitter away now? Maybe in 3 years, but he just won the biggest stunner in recent memory, if not ever. The FAA just put up a flight restriction over his house. I can hear his ego inflating from Los Angeles.
posted by feloniousmonk at 6:48 PM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
Mod note: Please do not repost horrible tweets/comments here just to prove they exist. We know they exist. Thanks.
posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 6:48 PM on November 10, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 6:48 PM on November 10, 2016 [8 favorites]
Wow. Donald.... don't.
My question is do they really want it to stop or know that doing this is more likely to encourage them to keep going?
I know he was told to delegitmize them by saying they are paid and all. Question is what else are they trying to do if anything.
posted by Jalliah at 6:49 PM on November 10, 2016
My question is do they really want it to stop or know that doing this is more likely to encourage them to keep going?
I know he was told to delegitmize them by saying they are paid and all. Question is what else are they trying to do if anything.
posted by Jalliah at 6:49 PM on November 10, 2016
Once, at some games at which he was presiding, he ordered his guards to throw an entire section of the crowd into the arena during intermission to be eaten by animals because there were no criminals to be prosecuted and he was bored.
Gold-plated, classy animals. The best.
Hey will the Trump Presidential Libr*huurfsplt* Ah. *spit* Library be in Tru*huu*mp Tower?
*blarrghf*
posted by petebest at 6:49 PM on November 10, 2016
Gold-plated, classy animals. The best.
Hey will the Trump Presidential Libr*huurfsplt* Ah. *spit* Library be in Tru*huu*mp Tower?
*blarrghf*
posted by petebest at 6:49 PM on November 10, 2016
Slate's Michelle Goldberg is advocating the adoption the post-Brexit symbol of solidarity and tolerance that people began wearing, the safety pin.
I just ordered 20 "LOVE TRUMPS HATE" buttons to spread around my friend group today for exactly the same reason.
posted by mayonnaises
More like HATE(RS) LOVE TRUMP
posted by cynicalidealist at 6:50 PM on November 10, 2016
I just ordered 20 "LOVE TRUMPS HATE" buttons to spread around my friend group today for exactly the same reason.
posted by mayonnaises
More like HATE(RS) LOVE TRUMP
posted by cynicalidealist at 6:50 PM on November 10, 2016
His tweets read like an immature 2nd grader.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:51 PM on November 10, 2016
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:51 PM on November 10, 2016
Nooses are popping up in South Bay in the San Jose area.
posted by Talez at 6:51 PM on November 10, 2016
posted by Talez at 6:51 PM on November 10, 2016
WTF is a professional protester? Like, sign me the fuck up if I can go protest this shit and get paid for it.
posted by rabbitrabbit at 6:53 PM on November 10, 2016 [33 favorites]
posted by rabbitrabbit at 6:53 PM on November 10, 2016 [33 favorites]
WTF is a professional protester? Like, sign me the fuck up if I can go protest this shit and get paid for it.
Yeah, my main response to that was along the lines of 'is that a thing? that's probably not a thing. I wonder what the pay would be though. I'm already doing this shit for free.'
posted by kalimac at 6:54 PM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
Yeah, my main response to that was along the lines of 'is that a thing? that's probably not a thing. I wonder what the pay would be though. I'm already doing this shit for free.'
posted by kalimac at 6:54 PM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
Here's to the return of the journalist as malcontent
Now a new era needs to begin, a period in which reporting takes precedent over opinion, when journalists are willing to seek out and understand people with whom they may have profound personal and philosophical differences. For decades, centuries even, that has been the definition of journalism.posted by Rumple at 6:54 PM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
That kind of reporting needs to be accompanied by a return to journalism’s oppositional roots; it has done reporters no good to think of themselves as part of the establishment or a megaphone for the conventional wisdom. We need to embrace, even relish, our legacy as malcontents and troublemakers, people who are willing to say the thing that makes everyone else uncomfortable.
How possible is it to have fewer outrage filter links to despicable breaking news events in this thread?
Make Flagging and Moving On Great Again.
posted by tonycpsu at 6:55 PM on November 10, 2016 [9 favorites]
Make Flagging and Moving On Great Again.
posted by tonycpsu at 6:55 PM on November 10, 2016 [9 favorites]
Dear President-Elect Trump, I would like to inform you that someone is signing your name to stupid tweets.
posted by zachlipton at 6:55 PM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 6:55 PM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
How possible is it to have fewer outrage filter links to despicable breaking news events in this thread?
If it's about the aftermath of the election how is it not important. Are we supposed to ignore that outrageous stuff?
posted by Jalliah at 6:56 PM on November 10, 2016 [8 favorites]
If it's about the aftermath of the election how is it not important. Are we supposed to ignore that outrageous stuff?
posted by Jalliah at 6:56 PM on November 10, 2016 [8 favorites]
If I had my way I'd be broadcasting these events on every channel 24/7 from here until November 3rd 2020.
That's the country we are now. We need to hold a god damned mirror up to these fuckfaces constantly and show them that this is a reflection of the country.
posted by Talez at 6:58 PM on November 10, 2016 [11 favorites]
That's the country we are now. We need to hold a god damned mirror up to these fuckfaces constantly and show them that this is a reflection of the country.
posted by Talez at 6:58 PM on November 10, 2016 [11 favorites]
The FAA just put up a flight restriction over his house.
Shit. He's been trying to divert flights from going over Mar-A-Lago for over a decade, and Florida wouldn't budge. Now he wins that battle too, doesn't he?
posted by dis_integration at 6:58 PM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
Shit. He's been trying to divert flights from going over Mar-A-Lago for over a decade, and Florida wouldn't budge. Now he wins that battle too, doesn't he?
posted by dis_integration at 6:58 PM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
WTF is a professional protester?
I will bet you $100 that it's a coded slur against Black Lives Matter, etc. "These aren't real grassroots people protesting. They're paid agents of ISIS" or whatever.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:59 PM on November 10, 2016 [10 favorites]
I will bet you $100 that it's a coded slur against Black Lives Matter, etc. "These aren't real grassroots people protesting. They're paid agents of ISIS" or whatever.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:59 PM on November 10, 2016 [10 favorites]
Sad that this barely registers given all of the other "Day 1" atrocities, but Two white male Babson U students drive to Wellesley College and harrass the students, particularly those in front of the house that's the center of African American life on the campus. 40+ bias incident calls reported about it...
posted by TwoStride at 7:01 PM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by TwoStride at 7:01 PM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
It was a campaign promise and I intend to see if mr trump means it it or if he was lying.
Can we maybe not taunt Trump into doing despicable shit? He'll do enough on his own. If he forgets a horrible campaign promise I am A-OK with that.
posted by corb at 7:03 PM on November 10, 2016 [16 favorites]
Can we maybe not taunt Trump into doing despicable shit? He'll do enough on his own. If he forgets a horrible campaign promise I am A-OK with that.
posted by corb at 7:03 PM on November 10, 2016 [16 favorites]
It's probably even simpler then that. "The only reason these people are protesting is because someone is paying them. Couldn't be for any other reason. Therefore ignore them and oh yes it's totally unfair because I won fair and square. "
posted by Jalliah at 7:03 PM on November 10, 2016
Can we maybe not taunt Trump into doing despicable shit? He'll do enough on his own. If he forgets a horrible campaign promise I am A-OK with that.
Taunt carefully.
posted by ocschwar at 7:04 PM on November 10, 2016
Taunt carefully.
posted by ocschwar at 7:04 PM on November 10, 2016
Dear President-Elect Trump -
I am writing to you to apply for the position of professional protester.
Proven ability to be pissed off by racist assholes.
Extensive experience making a spectacle of myself in public.
No respect for cops or other symbols of authority.
Sincere desire to disrupt social norms and defend the rights of all the people you appear to hate.
I am available for an interview and audition at your earliest convenience.
I would prefer a position in which I am given the opportunity to break things.
I am unable to engage in the chant "hey hey, ho ho, [anything] has got to go. I hope that's not a problem.
Salary expectations: $45,000 a year minimum, health and dental, 2 weeks paid vacation, eventual stock options and advancement opportunities.
Sincerely,
crazylegs
posted by crazylegs at 7:05 PM on November 10, 2016 [21 favorites]
I am writing to you to apply for the position of professional protester.
Proven ability to be pissed off by racist assholes.
Extensive experience making a spectacle of myself in public.
No respect for cops or other symbols of authority.
Sincere desire to disrupt social norms and defend the rights of all the people you appear to hate.
I am available for an interview and audition at your earliest convenience.
I would prefer a position in which I am given the opportunity to break things.
I am unable to engage in the chant "hey hey, ho ho, [anything] has got to go. I hope that's not a problem.
Salary expectations: $45,000 a year minimum, health and dental, 2 weeks paid vacation, eventual stock options and advancement opportunities.
Sincerely,
crazylegs
posted by crazylegs at 7:05 PM on November 10, 2016 [21 favorites]
This is what I believe will happen: President Trump will correct course in his optics and make cursory overtures of respect towards the rule of law (we can already see this happening in his victory speech and his meeting with Obama). Then he will continue to move forward with an agenda that will be less flamboyant than his campaign promises but barely less destructive. The Democrats will say scoldy words at times. But do people think establishment Dems are truly going to stick their necks out for our undocumented neighbors, when Obama set a record for deportations? Or for our family and friends of color, when Clinton, their candidate, crowned her career with a job killing brown people abroad?
It's a scary, scary time. I'm feeling fear on the micro level and dread on the macro level. Let's remember to hold tight to our communities and be wary of institutions that see us only as instruments.
posted by zokni at 7:05 PM on November 10, 2016 [9 favorites]
It's a scary, scary time. I'm feeling fear on the micro level and dread on the macro level. Let's remember to hold tight to our communities and be wary of institutions that see us only as instruments.
posted by zokni at 7:05 PM on November 10, 2016 [9 favorites]
Here's to the return of the journalist as malcontent
Cheers, Columbia Journalism Review. Its a brave new world, innit.
Seriously though, Wut. "Now" a new era of journalism needs to begin? TF? Yeah I'll tell Disney and Viacom to expect your call.
Too often, the views of Trump’s followers—which is to say, the people who just elected our next president—were dismissed entirely by an establishment media whose worldview is so different, and so counter, to theirs that it became chic to belittle them and wave them off.
Cripes.
posted by petebest at 7:05 PM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
Cheers, Columbia Journalism Review. Its a brave new world, innit.
Seriously though, Wut. "Now" a new era of journalism needs to begin? TF? Yeah I'll tell Disney and Viacom to expect your call.
Too often, the views of Trump’s followers—which is to say, the people who just elected our next president—were dismissed entirely by an establishment media whose worldview is so different, and so counter, to theirs that it became chic to belittle them and wave them off.
Cripes.
posted by petebest at 7:05 PM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
No, apparently the threat to imprison ones political opponents is just some rhetorical shit we can all gloss over with a nervous laugh. Fuck that. Did or did not Obama inquire about it? If not, then apparently it will be a-ok to toss a bunch of other political troublemakers in prison too. Maybe even certain #nevertrump folks who maybe have been a little too vocal, post-convention. How do you not see this?
posted by Chrischris at 7:09 PM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Chrischris at 7:09 PM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
My kid got in trouble today at aftercare. There was another kid boasting about how Trump won and my kid got up in his face and shouted "THAT'S NOT A GOOD THING!"
My kid also got a new Lego set today.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 7:10 PM on November 10, 2016 [133 favorites]
My kid also got a new Lego set today.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 7:10 PM on November 10, 2016 [133 favorites]
No, apparently the threat to imprison ones political opponents is just some rhetorical shit we can all gloss over with a nervous laugh. Fuck that. Did or did not Obama inquire about it? If not, then apparently it will be a-ok to toss a bunch of other political troublemakers in prison too. Maybe even certain #nevertrump folks who maybe have been a little too vocal, post-convention. How do you not see this?
We don't know exactly what they talked about. They've had one 90 minute private meeting.
posted by Jalliah at 7:11 PM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
We don't know exactly what they talked about. They've had one 90 minute private meeting.
posted by Jalliah at 7:11 PM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
oh my god his tweet
Looks like I picked the wrong 4 years to stop sniffing glue.
posted by Justinian at 7:12 PM on November 10, 2016 [7 favorites]
Looks like I picked the wrong 4 years to stop sniffing glue.
posted by Justinian at 7:12 PM on November 10, 2016 [7 favorites]
Not taunt Trump? Pfffff . . not taunt Trump. . . . Not. . . taunt. Trump.
Mmmmm . . taunt or not to taunt . . Sssssttt . . . mmmmm no can do.
posted by petebest at 7:12 PM on November 10, 2016
Mmmmm . . taunt or not to taunt . . Sssssttt . . . mmmmm no can do.
posted by petebest at 7:12 PM on November 10, 2016
Doktor Zed: "Slate's Michelle Goldberg is advocating the adoption the post-Brexit symbol of solidarity and tolerance that people began wearing, the safety pin."
Several people on my twitter feed are linking to IAmHoldingYourHand buttons.
Several people on my twitter feed are linking to IAmHoldingYourHand buttons.
Buy a thing. Wear a thing. Show others that you stand with them. Proceeds go to ACLU.posted by erratic meatsack at 7:13 PM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
We don't know exactly what they talked about. They've had one 90 minute private meeting.
I do know the words "Remember the 2011 White House correspondents’ dinner?" were definitely spoken.
posted by Talez at 7:13 PM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
I do know the words "Remember the 2011 White House correspondents’ dinner?" were definitely spoken.
posted by Talez at 7:13 PM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
I see, so apparently there wasn't any time for Barack to ask Don if he intends to arrest and jail his former Secretary of State, or if threat was just some fucking gag. It is literally the tip of the spear regarding where we as a people intend to go politically. I would hope 15 fucking seconds could have been spared for it.
posted by Chrischris at 7:14 PM on November 10, 2016
posted by Chrischris at 7:14 PM on November 10, 2016
And he made that tweet at 9PM?
Imagine what we'll get out of him at 3AM.
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:16 PM on November 10, 2016
Imagine what we'll get out of him at 3AM.
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:16 PM on November 10, 2016
I see, so apparently there wasn't any time for Barack to ask Don if he intends to arrest and jail his former Secretary of State, or if threat was just some fucking gag. It is literally the tip of the spear regarding where we as a people intend to go politically. I would hope 15 fucking seconds could have been spared for it.
We don't know what they talked about. There's no apparently anything.
posted by Jalliah at 7:16 PM on November 10, 2016 [7 favorites]
Megyn Kelly writes in her new book that Trump threatened her before the 1st primary debate, knew question beforehand. nytimes, excerpt tweeted by @BraddJaffy
posted by gatorae at 7:16 PM on November 10, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by gatorae at 7:16 PM on November 10, 2016 [9 favorites]
I just left another student community gathering, this one organized by the Black Students Association, Association of Latin American Students, and the African Youth League. People are scared and upset, but that was without a doubt the most inspiring, humbling, impressive group of students I've ever gotten to listen to. If they're hopeful and ready to fight and resist and protect each other, I don't really have any choice but to follow suit.
posted by ChuraChura at 7:16 PM on November 10, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by ChuraChura at 7:16 PM on November 10, 2016 [7 favorites]
I feel like I get your point with the "why isn't Obama trying to make sure Hillary gets imprisoned?" thing and now don't need it repeated any more.
posted by glhaynes at 7:17 PM on November 10, 2016
posted by glhaynes at 7:17 PM on November 10, 2016
Megyn Kelly writes in her new book that Trump threatened her before the 1st primary debate, knew question beforehand.
This is going to be a bombshell, and only -2 days before the election. Not nearly enough time for Trump's campaign staff to do damage control.
posted by tonycpsu at 7:20 PM on November 10, 2016 [42 favorites]
This is going to be a bombshell, and only -2 days before the election. Not nearly enough time for Trump's campaign staff to do damage control.
posted by tonycpsu at 7:20 PM on November 10, 2016 [42 favorites]
Between Megyn Kelly and the Russians saying they were chatting with the Trump campaign, it's almost as if they waited until after the election?
posted by gatorae at 7:22 PM on November 10, 2016 [21 favorites]
posted by gatorae at 7:22 PM on November 10, 2016 [21 favorites]
For the record, the right thing to do would be to either ignore the protests (because the President routinely ignores many many protests of all sorts, we're kind of used to it) or to say something like "I said the other night that I would be President for all Americans and I mean that. Whether you voted for me or not, whether you're protesting or not, I won't stop working for you."
posted by zachlipton at 7:22 PM on November 10, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 7:22 PM on November 10, 2016 [9 favorites]
WTF is a professional protester?
That was what the guy in my fb feed was talking about. A big alt-right talking point is that according to Wikileaks, George Soros is paying people to protest (and especially to violently protest) at Trump events, to make Trump look bad. He and the other commenter said that all of those 1st Day incidents are people paid by Soros. He believes this. The only clear refutation I have is on Snopes, and I can't link it because the other alt-right creed is that Snopes is funded by Soros, so it's not valid. Would love alternative refutations, but the whole thing is such a web of circular logic I don't know how to even start.
posted by Mchelly at 7:24 PM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
That was what the guy in my fb feed was talking about. A big alt-right talking point is that according to Wikileaks, George Soros is paying people to protest (and especially to violently protest) at Trump events, to make Trump look bad. He and the other commenter said that all of those 1st Day incidents are people paid by Soros. He believes this. The only clear refutation I have is on Snopes, and I can't link it because the other alt-right creed is that Snopes is funded by Soros, so it's not valid. Would love alternative refutations, but the whole thing is such a web of circular logic I don't know how to even start.
posted by Mchelly at 7:24 PM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
Guys, I'm sure Megyn Kelly just wanted to be impartial and didn't want to interfere with an election because the ethics of her profession demands that she...oh wait, I had her confused with James Comey again.
posted by zachlipton at 7:25 PM on November 10, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 7:25 PM on November 10, 2016 [7 favorites]
Megyn Kelly writes in her new book that Trump threatened her before the 1st primary debate, knew question beforehand.
And she's only letting us know now that she has a book to sell.
I need to run some algorithms to find a maximally profane, non misogynistic response to this.
SO. MUCH. HATE.
posted by ocschwar at 7:27 PM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
And she's only letting us know now that she has a book to sell.
I need to run some algorithms to find a maximally profane, non misogynistic response to this.
SO. MUCH. HATE.
posted by ocschwar at 7:27 PM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
They only have a two seat majority, with at least three #NeverTrumpers. I don't think they will. Not when those three know what the purpose is.
More to the point, they can also look ahead and see that having Trump as the party figurehead will probably reduce Republican gains in 2018 and put the Senate within reach of the Democrats in 2020. And I would sort of expect reasonably smart and not-super-trumpy people like McCain and Collins to be at least worried about unified Democratic government in 2020.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:27 PM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
More to the point, they can also look ahead and see that having Trump as the party figurehead will probably reduce Republican gains in 2018 and put the Senate within reach of the Democrats in 2020. And I would sort of expect reasonably smart and not-super-trumpy people like McCain and Collins to be at least worried about unified Democratic government in 2020.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:27 PM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
Now that Trump's getting the full classified Presidential briefings, has the betting pool opened for when his first spill of classified information on Twitter will occur?
posted by tonycpsu at 7:28 PM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by tonycpsu at 7:28 PM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
$1 on 3AM tonight.
posted by ocschwar at 7:30 PM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by ocschwar at 7:30 PM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
Wow, it's almost as if the media regularly passes questions along to candidates during the primaries and it's not some big shocking scandal or anything.
posted by xyzzy at 7:30 PM on November 10, 2016 [15 favorites]
posted by xyzzy at 7:30 PM on November 10, 2016 [15 favorites]
More from Megyn Kelly:
posted by zachlipton at 7:30 PM on November 10, 2016 [38 favorites]
This is actually one of the untold stories of the 2016 campaign,” Ms. Kelly writes. “I was not the only journalist to whom Trump offered gifts clearly meant to shape coverage. Many reporters have told me that Trump worked hard to offer them something fabulous — from hotel rooms to rides on his 757.”YOU HAVE YOUR OWN DAMN TV SHOW. If you think something is an untold story of the campaign, don't wait and put it in your book. Tell it!
posted by zachlipton at 7:30 PM on November 10, 2016 [38 favorites]
Person 1: Mr. Soros, I'll protest for $100!
Person 2: Mr Soros, I'll protest for $75!
Person 3: Mr. Soros, I'll protest for $50!
Person 4: Mr. Soros, I'll protest for $25!
Person 1: Mr. Soros, I'll protest for $10!
Person 2: Mr. Soros, I'll protest for $5!
Person 3: Mr. Soros, I'll protest for FREE!
Person 4: Mr. Soros, I'll protest for free AND donate my own money to progressive causes! Fuck Trump!
Persons 1-3: Yes, us too! Fuck Trump!
posted by gatorae at 7:31 PM on November 10, 2016 [10 favorites]
Person 2: Mr Soros, I'll protest for $75!
Person 3: Mr. Soros, I'll protest for $50!
Person 4: Mr. Soros, I'll protest for $25!
Person 1: Mr. Soros, I'll protest for $10!
Person 2: Mr. Soros, I'll protest for $5!
Person 3: Mr. Soros, I'll protest for FREE!
Person 4: Mr. Soros, I'll protest for free AND donate my own money to progressive causes! Fuck Trump!
Persons 1-3: Yes, us too! Fuck Trump!
posted by gatorae at 7:31 PM on November 10, 2016 [10 favorites]
That was what the guy in my fb feed was talking about. A big alt-right talking point is that according to Wikileaks, George Soros is paying people to protest (and especially to violently protest) at Trump events, to make Trump look bad. He and the other commenter said that all of those 1st Day incidents are people paid by Soros. He believes this. The only clear refutation I have is on Snopes, and I can't link it because the other alt-right creed is that Snopes is funded by Soros, so it's not valid. Would love alternative refutations, but the whole thing is such a web of circular logic I don't know how to even start.
You won't change their minds. No matter what you post and how many facts they will find some way to fit them into their desired narrative. If you're feel like you need to respond consider that it's not them that you are speaking too, but all of the other people that might be reading it.
posted by Jalliah at 7:34 PM on November 10, 2016 [11 favorites]
I'm looking at the near future and it looks to me like, on a national level, we're heading to an almost apartheid state with the majority Democratic coalition of coastal and big city college educated whites, african americans, and latinos essentially having almost no say over a federal government presided over by Republican non-college and suburban/rural white voters.
Think about it. Voting is becoming much more polarized and ticket splitting is becoming far less common. The Republican base voter bloc is smaller but spread out loosely over more states while the Democratic bloc is larger but more concentrated geographically in urban centers.
This has the following effects:
1) Republicans will control more State governments, which lets them gerrymander the House districts and ensure a Republican House majority even while receiving far fewer total votes than Democratic House candidates.
2) Because the Republicans dominate most of the sparsely populated but numerous states and ticket splitting is becoming rare they will eventually also maintain a large, possibly near veto proof majority in the Senate.
3) The electoral college gives disproportionate weight to Republican voters which means they can, and have twice in five elections, elect a President despite receiving fewer votes than their opponent.
4) Having control of the legislative and executive brance, they get to install ideologically friendly justices on the federal benches, up to and including the Supreme Court.
That's all three branches of federal government dominated by one party which represents a minority of the country, using the rules and even strengthening them to lock a majority out of power at the national level.
What is that if not apartheid? Yes, it's a kinder, gentler apartheid than what we saw in South Africa and the majority/minority split is 55/45 or whatever instead of 90/10 but in principle how is it any different?
posted by Justinian at 7:38 PM on November 10, 2016 [25 favorites]
Think about it. Voting is becoming much more polarized and ticket splitting is becoming far less common. The Republican base voter bloc is smaller but spread out loosely over more states while the Democratic bloc is larger but more concentrated geographically in urban centers.
This has the following effects:
1) Republicans will control more State governments, which lets them gerrymander the House districts and ensure a Republican House majority even while receiving far fewer total votes than Democratic House candidates.
2) Because the Republicans dominate most of the sparsely populated but numerous states and ticket splitting is becoming rare they will eventually also maintain a large, possibly near veto proof majority in the Senate.
3) The electoral college gives disproportionate weight to Republican voters which means they can, and have twice in five elections, elect a President despite receiving fewer votes than their opponent.
4) Having control of the legislative and executive brance, they get to install ideologically friendly justices on the federal benches, up to and including the Supreme Court.
That's all three branches of federal government dominated by one party which represents a minority of the country, using the rules and even strengthening them to lock a majority out of power at the national level.
What is that if not apartheid? Yes, it's a kinder, gentler apartheid than what we saw in South Africa and the majority/minority split is 55/45 or whatever instead of 90/10 but in principle how is it any different?
posted by Justinian at 7:38 PM on November 10, 2016 [25 favorites]
They're Going to Shaft Us a Hundred Different Ways and Blame it All on Obama
Jonathan Chait reports that Medicare privatization is definitely on the agenda -- and it's all President Obama's fault: [...]posted by tonycpsu at 7:39 PM on November 10, 2016 [16 favorites]
Ryan and the rest of the congressional Republicans know this will be unpopular, so the plan, apparently, is to say that they had no choice because of that awful Obamacare -- even though Republicans wanted to do this long before Obamacare was passed (even before Obama was president). [...]
Everything bad in the next four years is going to be Obama's fault. They're going to call the next recession "the Obama recession." They're going to give massive new tax cuts to the rich and blame the skyrocketing deficits on Obama. Oh, and any terror attacks on President Trump's watch will be because Obama made America weaker, even if it's four years from now and the Homeland Security secretary is an self-promoting wingnut clown like Sheriff David Clarke or Joe Arpaio. And the average American won't know any better.
Like, is it really better if you say that everyone can vote but the minority's votes are worth more than the majority's votes so they get their way than to say that the majority can't vote at all? The end result is the same.
posted by Justinian at 7:39 PM on November 10, 2016
posted by Justinian at 7:39 PM on November 10, 2016
WTF is a professional protester?
This is a real thing, for ratfucking and astroturfing. You pay people between 100$-200$ a day to go where you want them to go and hold the signs you want them to hold. Either you pay them to look ridiculous and go to your opponents' rallies, or you pay them to look respectable and go to yours.
But once you've started ratfucking, I imagine it's hard to tell the difference between organic and manufactured protests. Which is where these accusations are coming from, I think.
posted by corb at 7:39 PM on November 10, 2016 [9 favorites]
This is a real thing, for ratfucking and astroturfing. You pay people between 100$-200$ a day to go where you want them to go and hold the signs you want them to hold. Either you pay them to look ridiculous and go to your opponents' rallies, or you pay them to look respectable and go to yours.
But once you've started ratfucking, I imagine it's hard to tell the difference between organic and manufactured protests. Which is where these accusations are coming from, I think.
posted by corb at 7:39 PM on November 10, 2016 [9 favorites]
This story has so many surreal angles. We never even got a legit clean bill of health on Trump, can he even handle what's in front of him? It's easy to laugh it off and say oh yeah Obama went gray practically overnight but he worked so hard and cared so much and we know Trump won't, but pretty much the same thing has happened to every modern president. Even if he's a figurehead, there're a lot of places to show the flag. I'm not even trying to predict a health crisis or anything, but I just think it's so crazy that we're so far down the rabbit hole that pretty much any development would seem normal. It feels less like the campaign is over and things are normalizing and more like the campaign is over but instead of being through the storm, we're just in the eye, waiting for the other side to reach us and wondering about how big this whole thing really is. It feels like there are more crazy stories bubbling up right now. Who knows what's going on in tense SCIF conference rooms throughout DC and nearby if the Russia stuff really is true, just to name another example?
posted by feloniousmonk at 7:43 PM on November 10, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by feloniousmonk at 7:43 PM on November 10, 2016 [10 favorites]
It may be an unrepresentative democracy, but I think it's best if we don't take all meaning out of the word apartheid.
And if you were going to apply that word to the US to describe people's votes not being represented, there's no particular reason to start now: Washington DC, Puerto Rico, felon disenfranchisement, etc... have all been going on for quite some time.
posted by zachlipton at 7:45 PM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
And if you were going to apply that word to the US to describe people's votes not being represented, there's no particular reason to start now: Washington DC, Puerto Rico, felon disenfranchisement, etc... have all been going on for quite some time.
posted by zachlipton at 7:45 PM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
Sure, but there's a big difference between Washington D.C. and a majority of the country's votes being ignored in favor of that of a majority.
posted by Justinian at 7:47 PM on November 10, 2016
posted by Justinian at 7:47 PM on November 10, 2016
I think the South African experience is something we're going to need to look closely in the next few months. Fascism in America in the second decade of the 21st century is going to look different than fascism in the third decade of the 20th in Germany.
South Africa, Spain and Portugal, Argentina come to mind as well. We have to understand how it will work here and now.
This been posted in the threads a few times now, but again it's important for us to remember Umberto Eco's article on ur-fascism.
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:53 PM on November 10, 2016 [9 favorites]
South Africa, Spain and Portugal, Argentina come to mind as well. We have to understand how it will work here and now.
This been posted in the threads a few times now, but again it's important for us to remember Umberto Eco's article on ur-fascism.
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:53 PM on November 10, 2016 [9 favorites]
Liz Warren noted on Maddow that Howard Dean is throwing his hat in the ring for DNC chair.
YEAAAAAAARRRRGH!
(I'm still #TeamEllison, tho.)
posted by tonycpsu at 7:53 PM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
YEAAAAAAARRRRGH!
(I'm still #TeamEllison, tho.)
posted by tonycpsu at 7:53 PM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
Algorithmically speaking, this system could allow 26% of the population to tell 74% to go pound sand.
The GOP is using the gerrymander to entrench itself like that, to the point that the system's legitimacy and credibility is starting to be threatened.
I am THIS close to asking my congresswoman to give up on DC entirely, and spend this session in New England on negotiating more interstate compacts to the point that New England will be able to just fucking secede as soon as DC itself collapses. Her agenda centers on violence against women, so realistically speaking, she should just give it up and advocate for her agenda. Not like her seat in Congress will give her much chance to actually do anything.
posted by ocschwar at 7:54 PM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
The GOP is using the gerrymander to entrench itself like that, to the point that the system's legitimacy and credibility is starting to be threatened.
I am THIS close to asking my congresswoman to give up on DC entirely, and spend this session in New England on negotiating more interstate compacts to the point that New England will be able to just fucking secede as soon as DC itself collapses. Her agenda centers on violence against women, so realistically speaking, she should just give it up and advocate for her agenda. Not like her seat in Congress will give her much chance to actually do anything.
posted by ocschwar at 7:54 PM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
Medicare privatization is definitely on the agenda
How does that change for those of us on Medicare who use a Private HMO in order to get Prescription Coverage?
Howard Dean is throwing his hat in the ring for DNC chair.
Didn't he have that job before for 15 minutes?
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:56 PM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
How does that change for those of us on Medicare who use a Private HMO in order to get Prescription Coverage?
Howard Dean is throwing his hat in the ring for DNC chair.
Didn't he have that job before for 15 minutes?
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:56 PM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
You know, it may have just been that Trump's doctor is a crank and that Trump is arrogant, but there's an alternative explanation for the fact that no real health report was released: maybe he couldn't pass any genuine physical. That wouldn't necessarily be good news, of course; Pence or any other successor would likely be worse.
posted by Joe in Australia at 7:56 PM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Joe in Australia at 7:56 PM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
It may be an unrepresentative democracy, but I think it's best if we don't take all meaning out of the word apartheid
Not least because we'll need to save it for if/when the GOP tries to institute actual apartheid.
posted by tobascodagama at 8:00 PM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
Not least because we'll need to save it for if/when the GOP tries to institute actual apartheid.
posted by tobascodagama at 8:00 PM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
With regard to the popular vote, there's still around 4.6 million ballots left to count here in CA. Thank goodness we never decide Presidential elections by a close margin, because you all would be waiting a darn long time to find out.
posted by zachlipton at 8:02 PM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by zachlipton at 8:02 PM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
Howard Dean is throwing his hat in the ring for DNC chair.
Didn't he have that job before for 15 minutes?
Well, four years. During which he won back the House and Senate and helped get Barack Obama elected.
So, y'know. There's that.
I still like Keith Ellison, though.
posted by tobascodagama at 8:03 PM on November 10, 2016 [27 favorites]
Didn't he have that job before for 15 minutes?
Well, four years. During which he won back the House and Senate and helped get Barack Obama elected.
So, y'know. There's that.
I still like Keith Ellison, though.
posted by tobascodagama at 8:03 PM on November 10, 2016 [27 favorites]
Wasn't Dean chair when Ellison won office as Representative?
posted by ZeusHumms at 8:06 PM on November 10, 2016
posted by ZeusHumms at 8:06 PM on November 10, 2016
There's a decent chance Pence is going to be running the country anyways. Or one of Trump's other incompetent cronies. If we're looking for a past model as an example, think of Reagan's last 3 or 4 years. There's a power vacuum at the top, due to the President's weakness, that everyone's scrambling to fill. The losers will write some very interesting tell-alls. The winners will be doing absolutely strange things like using astrologers to determine policy choices.
posted by honestcoyote at 8:07 PM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by honestcoyote at 8:07 PM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
Vox [Matthew Yglesias]: The whole Democratic Party is now a smoking pile of rubble
The down-ballot party has withered, and Obama’s policy legacy will be largely repealed.posted by ZeusHumms at 8:08 PM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
That's all three branches of federal government dominated by one party which represents a minority of the country, using the rules and even strengthening them to lock a majority out of power at the national level.
You know, I'd wondered since I took a class in college just how crushing the end of Reconstruction would have felt to the people who lived through it. (I will never forgive Joss Whedon for using the Lost Cause mythos for Firefly rather than the far more interesting reality.)
I really, really never hoped to find out.
Remember how we'd all thought last week that this would be the end of the Republican party?
posted by steady-state strawberry at 8:10 PM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
You know, I'd wondered since I took a class in college just how crushing the end of Reconstruction would have felt to the people who lived through it. (I will never forgive Joss Whedon for using the Lost Cause mythos for Firefly rather than the far more interesting reality.)
I really, really never hoped to find out.
Remember how we'd all thought last week that this would be the end of the Republican party?
posted by steady-state strawberry at 8:10 PM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
Belatedly, JoeyMichaels: my anti-hypocrisy evangelical friends are beginning with calling out white evangelicals for failing at The Greatest Commandment and going from there....
posted by TwoStride at 8:11 PM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by TwoStride at 8:11 PM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
Remember how we'd all thought last week that this would be the end of the Republican party?
Remember how many times I wrote "no because the Republicans own everything but the presidency"?
posted by Talez at 8:11 PM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
Remember how many times I wrote "no because the Republicans own everything but the presidency"?
posted by Talez at 8:11 PM on November 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
Joe Romm: Will Trump go down in history as the man who pulled the plug on a livable climate? The fate of humanity is in the hands of a denier who pledged to kill domestic and global climate action and all clean energy research.
posted by homunculus at 8:14 PM on November 10, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by homunculus at 8:14 PM on November 10, 2016 [11 favorites]
Ugh, ugh. Kellyanne Conway is insinuating that she's being offered a White House job.
I forgot how much I was looking forward to never having to hear her bold, glib lies ever again.
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:14 PM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
I forgot how much I was looking forward to never having to hear her bold, glib lies ever again.
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:14 PM on November 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
Joe Romm: Will Trump go down in history as the man who pulled the plug on a livable climate? The fate of humanity is in the hands of a denier who pledged to kill domestic and global climate action and all clean energy research.
One of things I've seen people discussing is if it's possible to get him to come round because if he doesn't, he will go down in history as that man.
And this may be one way of tackling it. Go after him using his ego. " Do you want to be remembered forever this way? etc etc. "
posted by Jalliah at 8:21 PM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
One of things I've seen people discussing is if it's possible to get him to come round because if he doesn't, he will go down in history as that man.
And this may be one way of tackling it. Go after him using his ego. " Do you want to be remembered forever this way? etc etc. "
posted by Jalliah at 8:21 PM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
Oh, and on the topic of better allies: one small delight has been seeing no small number of my Korean evangelical friends just utterly shredding the hypocrisy--copious pertinent Biblical verses and all--of the White evangelical voters...
I was going to say, thanks for this TwoStride.
Would dearly love to watch a Korean seminarian drag some American-Christian dumbass behind the theological toolshed and just go Biblical on their ass.
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:22 PM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
I was going to say, thanks for this TwoStride.
Would dearly love to watch a Korean seminarian drag some American-Christian dumbass behind the theological toolshed and just go Biblical on their ass.
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:22 PM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
Kellyanne is clearly going to be the Press Secretary. I fully anticipate briefings full of praise for the "great deals" Trump made with fictional countries like Genovia, or Arendelle, or Wakanda...
posted by TwoStride at 8:23 PM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by TwoStride at 8:23 PM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
Luke 4 and Ephesians 5:1-20 also getting referenced a lot.
posted by TwoStride at 8:24 PM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by TwoStride at 8:24 PM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
It's easy to laugh it off and say oh yeah Obama went gray practically overnight but he worked so hard and cared so much and we know Trump won't, but pretty much the same thing has happened to every modern president.
We saw those photos from the Oval Office. Perhaps scarier than the thought of 2020 -- though Sarah Kendzior, who may be a Cassandra here but is on a good run, says don't think in terms of future elections -- is the thought of what the age-a-decade-in-a-term job of being president may do on an overweight 70-year-old with a junk food diet. Quickly.
Remember how we'd all thought last week that this would be the end of the Republican party?
It is, just not immediately. Ironically, given that Romney lost, it's a leveraged buyout. How much asset stripping happens is yet to be determined.
posted by holgate at 8:25 PM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
We saw those photos from the Oval Office. Perhaps scarier than the thought of 2020 -- though Sarah Kendzior, who may be a Cassandra here but is on a good run, says don't think in terms of future elections -- is the thought of what the age-a-decade-in-a-term job of being president may do on an overweight 70-year-old with a junk food diet. Quickly.
Remember how we'd all thought last week that this would be the end of the Republican party?
It is, just not immediately. Ironically, given that Romney lost, it's a leveraged buyout. How much asset stripping happens is yet to be determined.
posted by holgate at 8:25 PM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
And this may be one way of tackling it. Go after him using his ego. " Do you want to be remembered forever this way? etc etc. "
At this rate, forever isn't going to be very long from now.
posted by gatorae at 8:26 PM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
At this rate, forever isn't going to be very long from now.
posted by gatorae at 8:26 PM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
Will Trump go down in history as the man who pulled the plug on a livable climate?
You can't go down in history if nobody's left to write the history. I concluded we were doomed (and I personally committed to NOT bringing any children into the world) after seeing James Burke's 'After the Warming'. It showed a much too linear process of Climate Change, which gave deniers opportunities to refute it, but otherwise it was near perfect. But when Reagan had the solar panels torn off the White House, he committed to dooming us all. Every President since has either done nothing or too-little-too-late. Trump accelerating the process just brings us closer to the flooding of Florida (and is that such a bad thing?)
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:27 PM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
You can't go down in history if nobody's left to write the history. I concluded we were doomed (and I personally committed to NOT bringing any children into the world) after seeing James Burke's 'After the Warming'. It showed a much too linear process of Climate Change, which gave deniers opportunities to refute it, but otherwise it was near perfect. But when Reagan had the solar panels torn off the White House, he committed to dooming us all. Every President since has either done nothing or too-little-too-late. Trump accelerating the process just brings us closer to the flooding of Florida (and is that such a bad thing?)
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:27 PM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
Can we maybe not taunt Trump into doing despicable shit? He'll do enough on his own. If he forgets a horrible campaign promise I am A-OK with that.
posted by corb at 10:03 PM on November 10 [8 favorites +] [!]
...aaaaand we're treating him like a a menacing dictator rather than a president already, aren't we?
Christ, he's gonna loooove being President, isn't he?
posted by Chrischris at 8:29 PM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by corb at 10:03 PM on November 10 [8 favorites +] [!]
...aaaaand we're treating him like a a menacing dictator rather than a president already, aren't we?
Christ, he's gonna loooove being President, isn't he?
posted by Chrischris at 8:29 PM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
So which Obama image should we use for the inevitable "MISS ME YET?" memes?
I'm thinking this one or maybe this one.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:29 PM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
I'm thinking this one or maybe this one.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:29 PM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
Christ, he's gonna loooove being President, isn't he?
Until February.
posted by holgate at 8:30 PM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
Until February.
posted by holgate at 8:30 PM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
just brings us closer to the flooding of Florida (and is that such a bad thing?)
Yes?
posted by Justinian at 8:30 PM on November 10, 2016 [11 favorites]
Yes?
posted by Justinian at 8:30 PM on November 10, 2016 [11 favorites]
At this rate, forever isn't going to be very long from now.
I know and that's a depressing part. He's too stupid to know that though.
posted by Jal
I know and that's a depressing part. He's too stupid to know that though.
posted by Jal
Republicans know their policies of transferring even more wealth and power to corporations and the wealthy are not popular, otherwise they wouldn't have to lie about them so much. Of course Republicans will try to blame their failures on the Democrats who always have to step in and fix their messages, but Democrats must present a united message that this time, no one's buying it.
posted by Gelatin at 2:42 AM on November 10, 2016 [101 favorites]