The nation that destroys its soil destroys itself: after the US election

November 13, 2016 12:04 PM

Several days after the 2016 US election, president-elect Donald Trump is holding meetings, interviews and starting to build his administration team. His positions on issues such as mass deportation, tax and foreign policy are the cause of speculation; election positions on the ACA are possibly partially rolled back, but against bleak forecasts environmental positions seem to stay as they were, to the concern of scientists. Elsewhere there is discussion of why Hillary lost to Donald, such as James Comey's involvement, rural voting patterns, swing state perceptions or voter rights and suppression, while the Democratic Party consider who should lead them forwards. Meanwhile, protests occur in several US cities, there is speculation about Trump being impeached, the electoral college is under further scrutiny, and Kate McKinnon and Dave Chappelle on SNL.

To mod-quote: Don't go after each other, don't poke known sore points. There is an election channel in Chat. (If the web interface isn't working for you, frimble has instructions for connecting with Adium, Monal, and Apple Messages. A longer list of Jabber-compatible clients.) Alternately...

Take it to MetaTalk
* Holidays, gratitude, and Metafilter.
* Grief and Coping Thread: Election 2016.
* MeFites offering refuge for the holidays.
* US Election Day Roundup.
* It's a big snowball - political sub-site discussion.

For legacy content, see posts tagged with election2016. Recent election posts include After the 2016 US election, Election Night II: Load Balancing Boogaloo, Of the people, by the people, and for the people: US election day, and Senators, Representatives, and Referenda. The election thread reference wiki explains some of the terminology used in comments on these threads.

There are also many recent election-related threads in Ask MetaFilter; these include I need a good laugh, badly by azpenguin and Desperate for distractions by tzikeh. There are also some links of distraction and comfort by Deoridhe.

Post title by Franklin D. Roosevelt in a 1937 letter to all state governors.

posted by Wordshore (3129 comments total)

I remember when I used to look forward to these. :(
posted by tonycpsu at 12:06 PM on November 13, 2016 [90 favorites]

Is this the first 2020 thread?
posted by Justinian at 12:06 PM on November 13, 2016 [15 favorites]

Is this the first 2020 thread?

Where's that deportation force when you need it?
posted by tonycpsu at 12:07 PM on November 13, 2016 [10 favorites]

CNN exit polls
posted by Brian B. at 12:07 PM on November 13, 2016 [9 favorites]

Our president-elect seems to have spent most of the day on Twitter today, perhaps with someone helping him craft bizarro tweets.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:09 PM on November 13, 2016 [2 favorites]

My takeaway: as long as times are hard, no one who has a record to run on (or a spousal record hung around her neck) can actually win. Being very far outside the political system is a pretty huge advantage when many people hate the system.

Looking past the Trump nuclear apocalypse dumpster fire, I see a lot of reality TV stars and YouTube streamers and (ack) retired Red Sox players out shilling for our votes. Being a politician seems to bring a tainted smell with it.
posted by puddledork at 12:13 PM on November 13, 2016 [4 favorites]

The Guardian: "What I learned after 100,000 miles on the road talking to Trump supporters"

Article actually profiles people of color and women.
posted by Apocryphon at 12:13 PM on November 13, 2016 [8 favorites]

God dammit. Not 2020, 2018! The decisive votes come in off-presedential elections.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 12:18 PM on November 13, 2016 [127 favorites]

And now, Trump does not want to live in the White House full time. He wants to live in Trump Tower also. He wants us to foot the bill to secure that building? He wants to take the office of the commander and chief to his hotel?

Not one of his family members should have a security clearance, ever, they should not even be able to catch dogs. Mike Pence should also not have a clearance, as he as stated clearly his loyalty is not with the United States, two times removed.
posted by Oyéah at 12:20 PM on November 13, 2016 [43 favorites]

Glaubst du etwa an die Evolution?​ (Do you believe in Evolution?)

English Translation (not mine)

This is utterly depressing. And Minnesota of all places.
posted by Talez at 12:21 PM on November 13, 2016 [20 favorites]

2018 will be a difficult year for Democrats.
posted by jpe at 12:22 PM on November 13, 2016 [4 favorites]

If it's gotta be populist outsiders or nothing for the next few cycles I nominate Neil Degrasse Tyson.
posted by sourwookie at 12:24 PM on November 13, 2016 [32 favorites]

I guess the election threads really are going to run from here to eternity as others predicted. Glob help us all.
posted by comealongpole at 12:24 PM on November 13, 2016 [9 favorites]

Here is how you can report a hate incident to the Southern Poverty Law Center. They logged 201 between Election Day and the COB on Friday.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:24 PM on November 13, 2016 [11 favorites]

1. I remember when I used to look forward to these. :(
2. Is this the first 2020 thread?
3a. Where's that deportation force when you need it?
3b. God dammit. Not 2020, 2018! The decisive votes come in off-presidential elections.
4. 2018 will be a difficult year for Democrats.

Oh, Metafilter. Thanks for the sniffle-chuckle-fading-into-a-sob.
posted by RedOrGreen at 12:26 PM on November 13, 2016 [8 favorites]

Although maybe if Trump protesters keep beating people the American people will realize they were wrong to vote Republican.
posted by jpe at 12:26 PM on November 13, 2016 [3 favorites]

Except that article is predicated on a Clinton win. It suggests actually that the "slim chance of a Trump win" would be better for Democratic senators in "ruby red" states.
posted by corb at 12:26 PM on November 13, 2016 [7 favorites]

Oliver Stuenkel ‏@oliverstuenkel
If Le Pen wins in France next year, these would be the five leaders in control of the UN Security Council...

Utterly. Fucking. Terrifying.
posted by Talez at 12:28 PM on November 13, 2016 [40 favorites]

Meanwhile, Conway threatened Harry Reid today, telling him to be "careful" in the "legal sense."
posted by zachlipton at 12:28 PM on November 13, 2016 [10 favorites]

God dammit. Not 2020, 2018! The decisive votes come in off-presedential elections.

True, but 2020 is when election districts can be redrawn, so that would be good tool. 2018 should be all about getting as much of House back, while building an infrastructure to tackle everything in 2020.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:29 PM on November 13, 2016 [5 favorites]

anyone seen exit polls with income + race (together)? seems to be missing from cnn.
posted by andrewcooke at 12:29 PM on November 13, 2016

Although maybe if Trump protesters keep beating people the American people will realize they were wrong to vote Republican.

You mean Californian liberals aren't bastions of perfection? Shit and here I was hoping. Let's pack it up people. Twenty years of Republican rule now. No more healthcare or welfare.
posted by Talez at 12:30 PM on November 13, 2016 [11 favorites]

My hunch is that the margin of error on a crosstab of the exit poll with both income and race would be so high so as to make it meaningless. The exit poll is already kind of a mess just looking at race because of the small number of people in each subgroup.
posted by zachlipton at 12:32 PM on November 13, 2016 [4 favorites]

Meanwhile, Conway threatened Harry Reid today, telling him to be "careful" in the "legal sense."

Yep, and dear Melania is pursuing a libel lawsuit against a blogger. So it looks like that pesky free speech deal will be up for some revision soon. It's gotta be one of Trump's own biggest interests.
posted by gusottertrout at 12:33 PM on November 13, 2016 [16 favorites]

Maybe this goes in the grief support thread. All through this campaign and election, I've contemplated participating but mostly kept opting out. I don't know why.

There's been a bit of a debate in my household. Both my husband and I supported Clinton in 2008, and initially supported Bernie this time around. When Clinton became the nominee, I was happy to support her, and he wasn't. He said a lot of stuff about how she was cold and calculating, part of the system. He's still saying those things. He won't watch her concession speech, though he did admit to getting choked up over Kate McKinnon's song on SNL "despite his feelings about Hillary." You know, his feelings that she was a part of the political machine.

I tried to articulate how Clinton's identity as a politician is part of what was so inspiring to me, and part of what was so crushing about this defeat. She is a white woman in expensivepantsuits, attractive and polished, married to a successful president, faithful through his breaking of their marriage vows. She was smart and professional and good. She went high when she was called nasty. She has played by the rules of this system, no matter how dirty those rules were. This is how we tell women that they can succeed. Play as well as the boys, while working twice as hard, and you can do it.

But she failed. And that makes me feel so despairing. If she can't, can any of us? My husband's hope is for Warren in 2020. Part of me hopes for that, too. But Warren is not as polished as Clinton, not as controlled, "goofy," as Trump put it. Zephyr Teachout ran in my district, and all the campaign propaganda attacked women just like Warren, and just like me: a know-it-all liberal professor who stands to make "you" (male voters, I guess) look foolish. Who doesn't understand "you."

But Teachout (who lost) was me, and Warren is me, and I'm so scared of seeing her run because it was almost impossible for me to watch those debates and hear unqualified Trump talk over Clinton and call her a Nasty Woman because I already identified too much. And if someone more radical and angrier and less polished goes up against him and loses, I'm going to feel so crushed, so destroyed.

But I also feel like I need to hope. I need to get radicalized. Because the world used to tell us we could win if we were twice as professional as men and worked twice as hard. And that was a lie. So maybe we need to get angry. Maybe we need to face the hatred and own it, to be a smart, goofy know-it-all who won't be nice, go high, be quiet.

For the last decade I always left the room when politics came up with my conservative family, while they said Hillary was gross, while they said Santorum was a nice guy. My eyes went wide and I thought that was enough to register my disgust. I'm not leaving the room anymore. I want to make them uncomfortable as they made me. It won't help change minds, but maybe I won't feel like dying inside all the time anymore.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 12:34 PM on November 13, 2016 [251 favorites]

In even more alarming news, NBC is reporting that Linda McMahon is being considered for Secretary of Commerce. He really is just going down the list of the six "friends" he has.
posted by zachlipton at 12:35 PM on November 13, 2016 [8 favorites]

2018 will be a difficult year for Democrats.

...in the Senate, because there are so many Democrats up for election.

As corb notes, the chances for vulnerable Democrats probably just improved markedly, since Trump and the GOP are very likely to be facing very low approval ratings going into 2018. Likewise, the underlying fundamental chances for Democrats in the House, governors' mansions, and statehouses in 2018 are now pretty good.

While it's ghoulish to say so, these chances are even better if a recession hits between now and 2018. Just because voters punish the President's party, but also because Trump and the Republicans are likely to be pretty damn ineffective at fighting it, so it will be worse and last longer than it has to.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:39 PM on November 13, 2016 [9 favorites]

Posted this in the tail end of the last post, don't want it to get lost:

Everybody prepping to do the slog work of 2018, we have something to attend to NOW, here's the best article I've seen yet talking about the Louisiana runoff election with calls to action.
posted by foxfirefey at 12:39 PM on November 13, 2016 [26 favorites]

The nation that destroys its soil destroys itself

Our nation just soiled itself.
posted by Faint of Butt at 12:43 PM on November 13, 2016 [46 favorites]

eponysterical!
posted by zachlipton at 12:44 PM on November 13, 2016 [23 favorites]

Hey PhoBWanKenobi - I always tried to keep the peace & keep quiet with my conservative family too - and we have all done ok with just not talking about politics.

But I've decided that I'm going to make up some fun games to play with them - inspired by other MeFites in other threads!

Volunteer the info that you voted for Trump? Fantastic, Mom - I'm gonna donate $xx to the ACLU.

Snide comment about All Lives Matter? Super, highly regarded friend of family! $xx to Black Lives Matter!

Expressing pleasure about possible conservative Supreme Court Justices? Planned Parenthood thanks you for the $xx donation I just made in your name!

Given how easy it is to donate to progressive causes directly from my phone, I plan on just having websites primed and ready to go.
posted by hilaryjade at 12:44 PM on November 13, 2016 [85 favorites]

I'm trying to find a place in my head where I can start thinking strategically, but I'm still too bewildered and disgusted.

And more than a little afraid, though not for myself. I've got the option of stealth mode, if it comes to that... too many people I care about either don't or would rather die.
posted by BS Artisan at 12:44 PM on November 13, 2016 [7 favorites]

I am a very very hopeful person and I choose to believe that this will result in a beautiful outpouring of progressive support that will last far longer than four years. (Don't get me wrong, I am not saying the next 4 years "won't be that bad," I'm just saying there's a possibility for the reaction to be strong and positive.)
posted by miyabo at 12:44 PM on November 13, 2016 [9 favorites]

It's gotta be one of Trump's own biggest interests.

yeah one of my first thoughts about him post-election was "wow i hope no one tells him about lese-majeste" but actually now i'm wondering if the scary foreign-sounding name might put him off.
posted by poffin boffin at 12:45 PM on November 13, 2016 [1 favorite]

Crony capitalism is going to be the order of the day and since his murderers row of inept friends have zero charisma and zero competency it will be somewhat interesting to see if Republicans are able to get much done while they race to profit themselves.
posted by vuron at 12:46 PM on November 13, 2016 [14 favorites]

Somebody close to me lives in Harlem. He's white. He's about two zillion miles removed from a Trump supporter. Somebody saw his lily whiteness, challenged him, and the thing ended with somebody declaring it was "Donald Trump time" and suggested that my loved one be taken around the block and beaten up.

I feel like there should be a new way of saying this is the darkest timeline.
posted by angrycat at 12:47 PM on November 13, 2016 [24 favorites]

In even more alarming news, NBC is reporting that Linda McMahon is being considered for Secretary of Commerce. He really is just going down the list of the six "friends" he has.

Guy Debord: "In societies where modern conditions of production prevail, all of life presents itself as an immense accumulation of spectacles. Everything that was directly lived has moved away into a representation."
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 12:48 PM on November 13, 2016 [5 favorites]

In even more alarming news, NBC is reporting that Linda McMahon is being considered for Secretary of Commerce.

How many past cabinets have had the priviliege of not one but two members getting the Stone Cold Stunner?
posted by PenDevil at 12:49 PM on November 13, 2016 [7 favorites]

For whatever's next, Democrats should go for boldness, not incrementalism. Craft policies that don't get buried in the fine print of a platform page. Instead, something that's straightforward and simple enough to be summarized in a few words and a snappy phrase. Might I suggest guaranteed income or basic income? It's only the most hyped pie-in-the-sky proposal touted by privileged white libertarian Silicon Valley techies like this guy. (More here.)
posted by Apocryphon at 12:53 PM on November 13, 2016 [24 favorites]

How many past cabinets have had the priviliege of not one yt but two yt members getting the Stone Cold Stunner?

"Where have you gone, Joe Dimaggio, Stone Cold Steve Austin, a nation turns turns its lonely eyes to you...."
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 12:56 PM on November 13, 2016 [6 favorites]

This story is interesting. Since Trump doesn't conform to the Republican orthodoxy, the GOP money men will be happy to see him impeached, and replaced with a more pliable Mike Pence.
posted by Bee'sWing at 12:57 PM on November 13, 2016 [4 favorites]

So here's my question. What the fuck are the Republicans going to do about the ACA? They have to overturn it. They've been promising that they'd overturn it since it was passed. But overturning it is going to be deeply, profoundly brutal. They can't keep the pre-existing condition provisions without the individual mandate, because there's no way the insurance companies would put up with that, but people are going to be *pissed* when the pre-existing condition provisions go away. So are they just going to run on "fuck you sick people, you can die in a ditch"? Because I"m not sure what else they're going to have to run on.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 12:58 PM on November 13, 2016 [16 favorites]

>are they just going to run on "fuck you sick people, you can die in a ditch"? Because I"m not sure what else they're going to have to run on.

I'm pretty sure they're gonna go with 'it's Obama's fault'. We are post-factual now and 'it's Obama's fault' is gonna have legs like you would not believe.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 1:02 PM on November 13, 2016 [102 favorites]

And now, Trump does not want to live in the White House full time. He wants to live in Trump Tower also. He wants us to foot the bill to secure that building? He wants to take the office of the commander and chief to his hotel?

This is pretty much what Sarah Palin did during her abbreviated term as Alaska governor, to the point where members of the state legislature had buttons made up reading, "Where's Sarah?"
posted by Halloween Jack at 1:03 PM on November 13, 2016 [1 favorite]

So are they just going to run on "fuck you sick people, you can die in a ditch"? Because I"m not sure what else they're going to have to run on.

"It hurts right now, but once we deport all those immigrants and they stop using up all the medicine and the emergency room, everything will work out."
posted by kewb at 1:03 PM on November 13, 2016 [8 favorites]

So here's my question. What the fuck are the Republicans going to do about the ACA? They have to overturn it. They've been promising that they'd overturn it since it was passed. But overturning it is going to be deeply, profoundly brutal. They can't keep the pre-existing condition provisions without the individual mandate, because there's no way the insurance companies would put up with that, but people are going to be *pissed* when the pre-existing condition provisions go away. So are they just going to run on "fuck you sick people, you can die in a ditch"? Because I"m not sure what else they're going to have to run on.

I feel like they're going to try to keep the preexisting conditions protection, keep kids on parents' insurance until 26, ditch the mandate, and then toss the whole mess to the states to figure out how to fund so they can try and wash their hands of it.
posted by jason_steakums at 1:03 PM on November 13, 2016 [11 favorites]

Replace and repeal were popular when Republicans didn't actually have to deliver on the promises. Trying to get a remotely palatable replacement past their own house is next to impossible.

So yeah they have to repeal some very popular provisions to get rid of the stuff their base hates.
posted by vuron at 1:03 PM on November 13, 2016 [4 favorites]

Remember when the greatest fear of "After Trump loses" was the likelihood of an even worse but more competent neo-fascist rising? Well, today's very narrow "bright side" is that it's going to be more difficult to pull that off in the post-Trump years (if we survive to the 'post-Trump years'). And so we have to bet on the incompetence of a man who can't make a profit on casinos to save us. Which is not a bad bet.
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:05 PM on November 13, 2016 [8 favorites]

Maybe it will be Kardashians 2020, as some kind of family ticket like he's doing with his guys.
posted by Coda Tronca at 1:07 PM on November 13, 2016 [1 favorite]

There is one more senate race that could hamper the Republicans ability to pass legislation.

I'll remind everyone that the Clinton campaign instituted a Pied Piper strategy of asking their media friends give Trump media coverage during the Republican primary, specifically because he was teh worst candidate

We'll never know exactly how the momentum that strategy gave Trump aided him during the general. We all found it completely bizarre how the media talked about him and nobody else though. And it visibly saved him many millions in television ads. It's clear his experience in television helped some too, but probably nothing like the free ramp from media friends of the Clinton campaign. It's obvious the Pied Piper strategy helped Trump more than anything the Green party did, probably more than many other single influence about which Democrats complain.

Also I quite enjored This is who is to blame for Trump by Jonathan Pie
posted by jeffburdges at 1:09 PM on November 13, 2016 [18 favorites]

Kanye West has declared his candidacy and he's married to a Kardashian.
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:09 PM on November 13, 2016 [3 favorites]

I feel like they're going to try to keep the preexisting conditions protection

They can't. It doesn't work like that. You can only have protection for preexisting conditions if you have some mechanism to make healthy people buy insurance. You can't let people wait until they're sick to get insurance: that's like letting people wait and buy homeowner's insurance after their house is on fire. Insurance works because it pools risk. It doesn't work if people can wait until they need a payout before they contribute to the system.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 1:09 PM on November 13, 2016 [52 favorites]

So here's my question. What the fuck are the Republicans going to do about the ACA?

We know a little about what Trump is planning to do, though we don't yet know if the GOP will go along with it. (Read that whole thing, it's astonishing.)

Repeal and Replace Obamacare Act. Fully repeals Obamacare and replaces it with Health Savings Accounts, the ability to purchase health insurance across state lines, and lets states manage Medicaid funds. Reforms will also include cutting the red tape at the FDA: there are over 4,000 drugs awaiting approval, and we especially want to speed the approval of life-saving medications.

posted by skymt at 1:10 PM on November 13, 2016 [3 favorites]

So basically: fuck you sick people, you can die in a ditch.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 1:11 PM on November 13, 2016 [31 favorites]

ArbitraryAndCapricious: "So are they just going to run on "fuck you sick people, you can die in a ditch"? Because I"m not sure what else they're going to have to run on."

They don't need to. Most people don't have personal experience with getting screwed by the health industry prior to the ACA. Most Trump voters are middle class, not poor, and the only effects they see are their premiums rising higher and higher. I've talked to several since the election, and they generally seem to think that everything was great before the ACA, and that all the horror stories in the biased media were about lazy & undeserving people who didn't bother to get health insurance or get a job that provided it.

The only thing the GOP has to do is repeal the ACA, make some token reforms in the name of the free market and let things take their natural & horrible course. The natural inclinations of the Trump voter will provide all the political coverage they need.
posted by xthlc at 1:12 PM on November 13, 2016 [8 favorites]

So basically: fuck you sick people, you can die in a ditch.

that's been the republican platform for however many decades now, so no surprise there.
posted by poffin boffin at 1:12 PM on November 13, 2016 [71 favorites]

So basically: fuck you sick people, you can die in a ditch.

Trump's health policies are nothing like that. It's exactly this dismissal of what he said that led so many people to get pleasantly surprised when they listened to him for 30 seconds.
posted by Coda Tronca at 1:12 PM on November 13, 2016 [2 favorites]

There's a chance he'll sell off the ditch to a private equity firm in a public-private-partnership scheme, so you'll need to pay a toll before you can die in that ditch.
posted by zachlipton at 1:13 PM on November 13, 2016 [46 favorites]

Most people don't have personal experience with getting screwed by the health industry prior to the ACA.

Are you sure about that? I think a lot of people forget how many of us were fucked by the pre-existing condition thing, or else they don't understand how the ACA works and think they'll be able to keep pre-existing condition protections, which they won't.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 1:14 PM on November 13, 2016 [11 favorites]

they charge your family for the shovels and labor it took to fill the ditch in.
posted by poffin boffin at 1:15 PM on November 13, 2016 [3 favorites]

It's exactly this dismissal of what he said that led so many people to get pleasantly surprised when they listened to him for 30 seconds.

And then they listen for another 30 seconds and realize he just said something completely different.
posted by Etrigan at 1:15 PM on November 13, 2016 [43 favorites]

Arguably Reagan nationalized health care with that law that kept hpositals from turning away people who could not pay, just without any plans to pay for it.
posted by jeffburdges at 1:15 PM on November 13, 2016 [2 favorites]

On Friday, these alt-right posters were distributed around the building on Ohio States that houses foreign languages, an international book store, and an international students' cafe. The anthropology graduate students and faculty are going to be organizing a series of teach-ins and fora on race, human variation, and cultural relativism in the coming weeks. If anyone is in Ohio and interested in attending, send me a message. If you're interested, here is the American Association of Anthropologists' statement on race.
posted by ChuraChura at 1:16 PM on November 13, 2016 [14 favorites]

They can't. It doesn't work like that. You can only have protection for preexisting conditions if you have some mechanism to make healthy people buy insurance. You can't let people wait until they're sick to get insurance: that's like letting people wait and buy homeowner's insurance after their house is on fire. Insurance works because it pools risk. It doesn't work if people can wait until they need a payout before they contribute to the system.

They can't successfully, it would destroy the system, but why would they worry about that? They can keep the popular parts and then tell the states "here are your block grants, healthcare is now a state issue, good luck!" and their base will make a million excuses why that somehow didn't work.
posted by jason_steakums at 1:17 PM on November 13, 2016 [6 favorites]

Oliver Stuenkel ‏@oliverstuenkel
If Le Pen wins in France next year, these would be the five leaders in control of the UN Security Council...

Good point Talez. One of the (castastrophising?) offtopic thoughts I had to bite my tongue on posting in the immediate post-Trump threads was "Never mind that, how do I/we stop Le Pen?". I don't know France and I don't know French, but it kind of feels like all the dominos are falling and even the worst varieties of the usual mean political self-interest are being replaced by something still more hateful and more cruel.
posted by comealongpole at 1:20 PM on November 13, 2016 [3 favorites]

Speaking of Le Pen...

@AdamBienkov
Marine Le Pen admits National Front funded from Russia. Then says Europe no longer needs Nato #marr
posted by chris24 at 1:23 PM on November 13, 2016 [5 favorites]

Le Pen is stopped by having a candidate with a more attractive platform. "Your campaign is thoughtcrime" didn't work against BREXIT, didn't work against Trump and won't work against Le Pen.
posted by MattD at 1:24 PM on November 13, 2016 [10 favorites]

And Trump has supposedly picked Reince as Chief of Staff. I guess good that it's not Bannon?
posted by chris24 at 1:24 PM on November 13, 2016 [3 favorites]

Just read that Marine Le Pen's presidential ambitions are somewhat fraught with infighting with her father Jean-Marie (who is bitter that she has a better chance than he did) and her niece Marion Maréchal-Le Pen (who wants to win the presidency for herself, at a later date). If accurate, I find it immeasurably amusing that struggle within a political dynasty is what's styming far-right takeover in France of all nations.
posted by Apocryphon at 1:27 PM on November 13, 2016 [5 favorites]

Le Pen is stopped by having a candidate with a more attractive platform.

Which French candidate, what's the platform?
posted by Apocryphon at 1:29 PM on November 13, 2016 [1 favorite]

Trump's health policies are nothing like that. It's exactly this dismissal of what he said that led so many people to get pleasantly surprised when they listened to him for 30 seconds.

Trump's health policies are typical Republican talking points: deregulate the insurance industry and make it easier for people to save money to pay for healthcare expenses. I don't think he has anything else. Obamacare was the old-school moderate Republican solution to this problem, back when there were moderate Republicans.

You do understand that you are on a webpage full of people with college degrees who voted for Hillary Clinton, right? Did you really mean to call everybody else here dumb?

I'm 100% certain he did mean that, and the best course of action is not to take the bait.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 1:32 PM on November 13, 2016 [8 favorites]

My suspicion is Trump and the GOP House spend months fighting over how to effect replace-and-repeal, and eventually they pass something pretty similar to Obamacare with one major difference they can highlight. Trump spends all of his time not talking about the bill itself, but rather demanding that everyone stop saying "Obamacare" and only call it "Trumpcare" from now on.

I do like his idea to require cost transparency by providers, which could lead to steering and tiering in ways that reduce inefficiency in the markets. Too bad in addition to this reasonable proposal, he also plans to install a neo-Nazi as his Chief of Staff.

It's like someone said "I hear you wanted a doughnut. I've backed a truckload of dog poop up behind your house, with a donut buried in there somewhere. If you eat the whole thing you'll eventually maybe get to the donut before the poop-eating kills you."
posted by sallybrown at 1:33 PM on November 13, 2016 [13 favorites]

I just dropped in to see what position my Metalfilter was in.

I've been trying to keep far away from the news, including Metafilter, only peeking every once in a while.

And, of course, Facebook can be a minefield at times. One friend of a friend posted a link to a story on the protests and commented, "This is not how mature adults handle disappointment" and I've been simmering about it ever since. So many people are going to lose so much in terms of civil rights, safety and health care, and this fucker is tut-tuting like we lost a goddamn game of Monopoly.

There. That felt better. Thanks, folks.
posted by AlonzoMosleyFBI at 1:33 PM on November 13, 2016 [67 favorites]

This is about the right amount of WWC class outreach I think. No pandering to racists, no compromise in platform, just pointing out the failure of Reps to deliver on their promises.

@HeerJeet
Going forward, Dem message to Obama-to-Trump voters & working class GOP base: you've been suckered. Trump is Ryan's puppet.

@HeerJeet
Dem message to WWC: "Trump promised to be your champion, now he's puppet to Ryan's agenda of privatizing medicare & social security."

@HeerJeet
Same message if Trump follows through with neo-con foreign policy. "You've been suckered. He is not who he said he was. He's regular GOP."
posted by chris24 at 1:33 PM on November 13, 2016 [11 favorites]

Trump's health policies are nothing like that. It's exactly this dismissal of what he said that led so many people to get pleasantly surprised when they listened to him for 30 seconds.

Taking you seriously, I, and basically nobody else including Donald Trump himself, have any idea what his healthcare proposals are.

The most complete view we've seen was this proposal, which he put out extremely late in the campaign. It's basically a plan to repeal all of the ACA, end the individual mandate, sell insurance across state lines (largely meaningless), makes individual plans tax-deductible (doesn't help you at all if you're not making enough money, he provides no clue how he'd pay for it too), more HSAs (again, doesn't help if you don't have enough money), require price transparency from providers (sure, not a bad thing, but not much help if you have a heart attack), block-grant Medicaid (let the states screw over poor people as hardly as they wish), and allow importation of drugs from other countries (sure, assuming safety is assured).

Then, a couple of weeks ago, he spoke absolute gibberish about health care. Repeal Obamacare was still always priority #1 though.

Following the election, he scrubbed his plan into something that looks like Paul Ryan wrote it, getting rid of the drug import component and the price transparency (because that's a regulation), killed the tax deduction for premiums on the individual market, and added a plank to "modernize" Medicare, whatever that means.

Then he gave an interview to the WSJ where he said he wants to keep parts of the ACA, such as coverage for dependents under 26 and the mandate that insurers cover preexisting conditions. Nobody has explained, nor has he been asked, how insurers will cover preexisting conditions without an individual mandate without leading to a death spiral in the market. He also hasn't explained what the 20 million people who've gained coverage under the ACA are supposed to do after he's done repealing it.

So yeah, people were pleasantly surprised if they listened to him at the right moment, but he fundamentally has no plan and has changed direction on major components within the space of a couple weeks. That's the biggest problem with the "well let's just hear him out" argument. He will tell anyone what they want to hear and nobody has any earthly idea what he wants to do.
posted by zachlipton at 1:35 PM on November 13, 2016 [128 favorites]

Too bad in addition to this reasonable proposal, he also plans to install a neo-Nazi as his Chief of Staff.

Oh good, I missed the breaking news. His chief of staff is a man who failed to object to a know-nothing narcissist seeking the Presidency; his advisor is a neo-Nazi.
posted by sallybrown at 1:35 PM on November 13, 2016 [4 favorites]

I doubt Le Pen will win in France because French people are not sucked into the asinine two party mentality. France has multiple successful parties because they have a parliament that does not use first-past-the-post.

We expect Le Pen will make it into the runoff for the presidency, but if the other candidate does not suck too badly then she will loose. As I understand it, there are good odds that other candidate will be right-wing too, but it's feasible the left-wing parties could abandon their nepotism and compromise on one good candidate who appeals to both PS and the far left. It's far more likely PS will nominate whatever party flack they like and gambol on far left voters supporting them in the first round.

I think if PS can produce a "Bernie sanders" who inspires people across the left-wing political spectrum, and does not scare the right too as badly as Le Pen, then there are very good odds they can win the presidency.
posted by jeffburdges at 1:35 PM on November 13, 2016 [6 favorites]

“Bannon and Priebus will continue the effective leadership team they formed during the campaign, working as equal partners to transform the federal government, making it much more efficient, effective and productive,” the statement reads.

The Chief of Staff is supposed to be top dog, not an equal partner. So I dunno.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 1:37 PM on November 13, 2016 [1 favorite]

Le Pen will almost certainly win next year. They have had a state of emergency going on there for a year while people get run over with trucks or massacred in theatres. The strategy of 'sharpening the tensions' works well for both jihadis and the French state.
posted by Coda Tronca at 1:37 PM on November 13, 2016 [1 favorite]

Chances are Le Pen's a shoo-in, then. And then the EU disintegrates, another light on the hill of liberalism is extinguished, and Alexander Dugin's Eurasian masterplan comes closer to completion.
posted by acb at 1:37 PM on November 13, 2016 [3 favorites]

Which is the candidate with the good platform because we can take all of the positive cases to learn from right now
posted by Apocryphon at 1:38 PM on November 13, 2016

Trump's health policies are nothing like that. It's exactly this dismissal of what he said that led so many people to get pleasantly surprised when they listened to him for 30 seconds.

What do you think differs from "Fuck you, sick people?" It's right there on his own web page. The things he's saying will replace obamacare are:

(1) You should save your pennies in case you get cancer.
(2) If you want to, you can buy a health insurance policy at full sticker price. You will also be able to buy one from another state.
(3) Whatever state you live in can do what it wants with medicaid money.

I could sort of accept that at some level he'd prefer that Americans had good coverage. But... it's just stupid. Keeping the ban on pre-existing condition limitations means that mostly sick people will be buying coverage, which means the plans people will be able to buy across state lines will be very expensive. Which means lots of people will be unable to afford any available policy, but also make too much money for Medicaid. What his plan offers to those people is just that they should save their pennies because they might get cancer, or their kid might get run over.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 1:40 PM on November 13, 2016 [21 favorites]

The Chief of Staff is supposed to be top dog, not an equal partner. So I dunno.

Agreed it sucks Bannon's involved at all. But slightly better that they're not brazen enough to officially make a white nationalist CoS. Sad that's where we are, but... 2016.
posted by chris24 at 1:41 PM on November 13, 2016

The Chief of Staff is supposed to be top dog, not an equal partner. So I dunno.

The candidate cannot make tough choices because his narcissism makes him need love and approval from anyone he is in front of at the moment. See also: his waffling on his VP selection. See also: his compliments of President Obama, the man he's spent 8 years harassing and trying to discredit.

The game for his staff the next four years is going to be preventing their rivals from getting facetime with the President.
posted by sallybrown at 1:42 PM on November 13, 2016 [36 favorites]

They can't. It doesn't work like that. You can only have protection for preexisting conditions if you have some mechanism to make healthy people buy insurance

I want to stress I think this is a horrible and truly evil idea, but here's a terrifying look at what Competent Evil Trump who gives no fucks about the US might do.

Keep the pre-existing conditions ban and repeal the mandate. It doesn't matter if the insurance companies revolt, what can they do to him? If they yank up prices, blame it on the ethnic origin of their owners. "These companies, they have a lot of foreigners on their boards. They're un American. You need to give me more power so I can take them on."

Eliminate the Medicaid expansion entirely in blue states where it is primarily used by demographics that opposed him. Wait for liberal- voting older Dems to die off. Allow block grants to red states with red governors so they can funnel funds to Republican voting districts only. Wait for more people to die.

Use executive order to halt the implementation of the regulations that force hospitals to take everyone regardless of their ability to pay.
posted by corb at 1:43 PM on November 13, 2016 [8 favorites]

Letting companies sell insurance across state lines means all of them will move to the state with the fewest regulations on how hard you're allowed to screw your customers.
posted by EarBucket at 1:43 PM on November 13, 2016 [44 favorites]

And isn't Merkle up for re-election next fall? I'm sure the worldwide right will be looking to pour some money into stoking fear in Germany soon too if that's the case.
posted by gusottertrout at 1:44 PM on November 13, 2016

RE: Reince as CoS... The deplorables are getting restless already.

@DrDavidDuke
"I thought we were draining the swamp? Here we go again......"
posted by chris24 at 1:44 PM on November 13, 2016 [26 favorites]

Bannon still gets his name above Priebus on the announcement, which either means something about who's really important, or it just means that Bannon is the one who approved the release before it went out.
posted by zachlipton at 1:45 PM on November 13, 2016 [1 favorite]

.
posted by glonous keming at 1:46 PM on November 13, 2016 [1 favorite]

How could this not have been called What Comes Next?

(Winning was easy, young man. Governing's harder.)
posted by rokusan at 1:47 PM on November 13, 2016 [10 favorites]

I'd like to draw some attention to a comment I wrote way back in February. I won't quote it, but I think it's worth reading.

I was wrong about the second part (that he'd implode), but I think that to the very end no one really understood the nature of this white-resentment version of right-wing populism. And this has profound consequences for the GOP. This idea that lots of the GOP and their monied backers would love to see Trump impeached and replaced by Pence is exactly right ... but I find the likelihood of that happening very low because the bottom line here is that this white resentment right wing populism is a real thing that's not going to go away. I think that the GOP is going to tear itself apart.

But we should take no comfort from that. Because in the process, a Trump administration is going to, at minimum, tear this entire country apart. And in my mind, that's the best case scenario. I can think of at least five or six ways in which Trump could start a chain of globally catastrophic consequences, chief among them turning a blind eye when Putin invades or incites a reverse color revolution in the Baltics, which will then tear apart NATO and, not concidentally, increase the impetus for the European populist right to ascension. I can imagine Trump undermining the dollar as the currency of last resort, as the reserve currency. I can imagine the bond market collapsing here and in Europe, triggering not just a global recession, but a genuine depression. And none of this relies upon trade. All the worries about trade are the typical neoliberal scaremongering about protectionism. Trump could manage some protectionism, but not enough to do any real damage. The rest of the party won't go along with that. But he could do enormous economic damage otherwise.

But the US President has an almost unequaled latitude when it comes to foreign policy and the use of the military among modern democracies. The damage Trump could do -- this narcissist who nurtures resentments and acts out against his list of enemies on an impulsive manner -- is horrifying. This is someone who makes Nixon look sober and cautious and forgiving.

The best case scenario is that Trump does tremendous damage to the US, but not the world. The worst case is that he does tremendous damage to the entire world. The US is the global hegemon. There is nowhere to move to, nowhere to hide, nowhere that is safe.

Yes, I think that this heralds a radical and unpredictable era of political realignment of both parties. I don't see how the GOP can withstand this in its current shape. I think that, in the long run, this is the death-knell for that coalition of big-business and the Christian right that has sustained it since Reagan. And, sure, that's a good thing because it means that a big portion of what is now the GOP will become a de facto white nationalist party, making them dangrous, but a notable minority party. But this will involve increasing fear and anxiety and violence, and the uncertainty about what the new political alignment on both the left and the right will have its own costs. There is no way forward from this that isn't very bad, even given the fact that, yes, I believe that the GOP has basically guaranteed its own eventual end. But who knows what political order will replace what we, in the US, and for that matter the rest of the world has known for decades. Whatever it is, it could be much worse.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 1:48 PM on November 13, 2016 [56 favorites]

Le Pen will almost certainly win next year. They have had a state of emergency going on there for a year while people get run over with trucks or massacred in theatres. The strategy of 'sharpening the tensions' works well for both jihadis and the French state.

As terrible as is it would be for us, wouldn't the French see what's going on in Trump's America and Brexit U.K. and be deterred accordingly?
posted by Apocryphon at 1:51 PM on November 13, 2016

I dunno. I can totally believe that Trump has no healthcare plan because he doesn't care about policy and never thought about what he would actually do if he won. But I don't believe that the Republican establishment is on board for destroying the entire American healthcare system and cackling while it burns. I think they'll rescind the pre-existing condition protections and try to blame it on some kind of scapegoat. And maybe that will work, but it seems risky.

My guess is that they'll keep the thing where kids can stay on insurance until they're 26, because that's popular and not that expensive. But pre-existing conditions are going to have to go.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 1:51 PM on November 13, 2016 [1 favorite]

Basically, we've elected the American Alan B'Stard.
posted by kewb at 1:52 PM on November 13, 2016 [4 favorites]

Team Trump was aggressive, ambitious, and unpredictable. They also did a better job of connecting with voters. Trump might be a narcissist, but "Make America Great Again" was a slogan about America. His promises about bringing manufacturing back to Anytown, USA may be hollow, but they were direct promises. His voters saw him slay his "fellow" Republicans during the primaries, and yea did they laugh - he used the act of campaigning itself to show that he could "drain the swamp", as they say. Yes, he's an orange misogynist, but many of his voters are perfectly aware of this - just as many Clinton voters pinned their noses as they pulled the lever, so did they. (They can be just as cynical about their political choices as us!) Trump has a well-established brand: loud-mouthed, tacky, phony hair, a model on each arm. Once you accept that this is who he is, it becomes easy for a lot of people to lose any reaction to the "grab 'em by the pussy" remarks. It's the Tyson Effect. He rode it to victory.

Team Clinton was complacent and insular. Team Clinton did not run a terrible campaign, but they did not run a campaign that was good enough. Too much of the messaging assumed that you already liked the status quo and that you already liked Hillary Clinton. "I'm With Her" and "It's Her Turn" were both slogans about Hillary Clinton herself - paradoxically, this might be acceptable if she were more of a comically vocal narcissist, but it doesn't pair well with her utterly professional demeanor. Even worse, "America is Already Great" tells the MAGA crowd that their concerns are wrong - a deadly failure, from a rhetorical POV. At the end of the day, they assumed that Obama voters would pull for Clinton, and that "smarter" Republicans would also flock to her. Well...Clinton's voters were whiter and wealthier than Obama's in 2012, but mostly because she had lost much of Obama's minority support, and also because Trump had actually made some gains in minority voters over Romney in 2012.

At the end of the day, it is clear that rural voters - white voters - voters without college degrees - that these huge voting blocs would rather cast their lot with Trump.

shit sucks
posted by Sticherbeast at 1:53 PM on November 13, 2016 [17 favorites]

Forgive me if someone has already said this in the previous thread that I did not read all of:

It seems to me Republicans held the government hostage for the last 6 years. AND IT WORKED. Now, suddenly, maybe infrastructure spending isn't socialism, and it will pass. And they will get credit for doing it. Because why would Dems vote against it? They've been wanting it for years themselves.

How many other policies like this will now pass because the president is "republican"? How can Dems ever run things if the other party can just shut down the govt anytime they hold the presidency?

I am reading very few articles about how Democrats move forward after this loss. It seems so all encompassing and overwhelming. We keep being told that Republicans are on their last leg, and then they win another State house, or governorship, or - gasp - the presidency.

What do we do to beat that?
posted by wittgenstein at 1:55 PM on November 13, 2016 [34 favorites]

This is your friendly reminder that Steve Bannon's ex swore under oath (years and years before this election) that he said he didn't want his kids going to a certain LA private school because there were too many Jews there.
posted by zachlipton at 1:55 PM on November 13, 2016 [23 favorites]

chris24: "And Trump has supposedly picked Reince as Chief of Staff. I guess good that it's not Bannon?"

until someone's collecting a paycheck, I don't care what he's supposedly decided. Who knows what's actually going to happen.
posted by boo_radley at 1:57 PM on November 13, 2016

Making Bannon an unofficial but effective Co-Chief of Staff with Priebus will ensure maximum conflict on the level just below the President so that Dumb Donald gets less input from both sides. Perfect for a manager who doesn't want to actually Manage.
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:59 PM on November 13, 2016 [9 favorites]

wouldn't the French see what's going on in Trump's America and Brexit U.K. and be deterred accordingly?

Not with Brexit, since the only thing that's actually changed in 5 months has been a devaluation of the pound, affecting those Britons living abroad on state pensions quite badly (stock market is flying and other economic indicators such as employment seem normal). Brexit inspired Trump's victory, which in turn is likely to lead to victories for the right in Austria (December), France, Netherlands (March 2017) and maybe even Germany. If the EU was able to 'punish' Britain for Brexit it would have done so already.
posted by Coda Tronca at 1:59 PM on November 13, 2016

Who knows what's actually going to happen.

That's why I said supposedly. But they have issued a press release confirming it.
posted by chris24 at 2:00 PM on November 13, 2016 [1 favorite]

I've seen a bunch of people talking about how they hope Trump gets mired down in building the wall. Be careful what you wish for.

Ever since I saw the video of Gwynne Dwyer explaining that the wall could absolutely happen as long as you're willing to kill people, I started to think about how that would likely work in today's America, and I realized that the drone program provides essentially the perfect weapon. Drones can ceaselessly patrol large rural sections of the wall 24/7 with zero risk of danger to those patrolling. Do you think republicans are going to care that we're murdering random non-US citizens trying to cross the border? I think they'll be absolutely delighted. Obama's intelligence expansion activities have handed Trump the ability to massively abuse the system with essentially zero oversight, and innocent people are going to pay for it.
posted by zug at 2:01 PM on November 13, 2016 [25 favorites]

> What do we do to beat that?

Kobayashi Maru
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 2:02 PM on November 13, 2016 [6 favorites]

But I don't believe that the Republican establishment is on board for destroying the entire American healthcare system and cackling while it burns.

No, of course not. But they've backed themselves into a corner where they have to repeal obamacare but don't dare repeal obamacare. It's going to be interesting watching them try to square that circle.

Also going to be fun: watching them deal with the Ryan budget, which (at least in 2014) polled at a whopping 22\% support and is so obviously, catastrophically unpopular that one time House Republicans had to scramble around finding enough of their own to vote it down.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 2:03 PM on November 13, 2016 [4 favorites]

Now, suddenly, maybe infrastructure spending isn't socialism, and it will pass. And they will get credit for doing it. Because why would Dems vote against it? They've been wanting it for years themselves.

How many other policies like this will now pass because the president is "republican"?

I'm sort of expecting "only Nixon could go to China" to reemerge, being floated in talking points as the narrative around some of the genuinely good ideas with bipartisan support that they blocked because it would have meant working with Obama. Because yeah, now the Republicans can take credit.
posted by jason_steakums at 2:05 PM on November 13, 2016 [3 favorites]

RE: Reince as CoS... The deplorables are getting restless already.

@DrDavidDuke
"I thought we were draining the swamp? Here we go again......"

The responses after that tweet are surprisingly satisfying. But then my personal history with white supremists like him makes me quite biased to a good bit of told you so taunting and laughing.
posted by Jalliah at 2:07 PM on November 13, 2016 [2 favorites]

Although maybe if Trump protesters keep beating people the American people will realize they were wrong to vote Republican.

What's he complaining about? He got exactly what he wanted.
posted by The Hamms Bear at 2:08 PM on November 13, 2016

Not with Brexit, since the only thing that's actually changed in 5 months has been a devaluation of the pound

Weren't there hundreds of reports of racist incidents and harassment following the Brexit vote? While such things weren't entirely new, that feels like a change.
posted by zachlipton at 2:10 PM on November 13, 2016 [5 favorites]

One thing about the "drain the swamp" rhetoric: I know the original quote is "When you are up to your ass in alligators, it is difficult to remember that your initial objective was to drain the swamp." Of course, with that analogy, it's hard NOT to see that Trump is not going to do that because he IS the Biggest Alligator. (Of course, what we really need is some alligator-eating-otters)
posted by oneswellfoop at 2:10 PM on November 13, 2016 [2 favorites]

I am reading very few articles about how Democrats move forward after this loss. It seems so all encompassing and overwhelming. We keep being told that Republicans are on their last leg, and then they win another State house, or governorship, or - gasp - the presidency.

What do we do to beat that?

First step: never, ever, ever, ever assume that they are on their last leg. A lot of people (including myself) had said at various points that the Republicans were finished as a national party. That was fucking wrong. That is the kind of thinking which leads certain Presidential candidates to skip fucking Wisconsin.
posted by Sticherbeast at 2:12 PM on November 13, 2016 [33 favorites]

Chris Christie is going to be so upset if he doesn't get a cabinet post.


He was really looking forward to attending all those concerts Bruce was going to perform specifically against him.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 2:14 PM on November 13, 2016 [5 favorites]

So, the world is running out of the resources we need to survive as a species. We're in massive overshoot thanks to oil, and now the oil is getting scarce. This isn't difficult to figure out.

If you take a look at the Limits To Growth chart, you'll find that we're facing a decline in services pretty soon. Services being things like medical care, communications, transportation, water, sewer, power, that sort of thing. It's simply not going to be possible to provide all of the services that everyone needs to survive; we just can't afford it anymore.

Obamacare isn't a failure because it's ideologically wrong or financially unsound, it's a failure because it was implemented with an understanding that Americans were relatively healthy. What they found out was that, while fighting to conceal pre-existing conditions from the insurance comanies during the rapacious eighties and nineties, America had been getting a lot sicker than anyone expected.

The societal burden of disease had been massively underestimated, and it cost the insurance companies an assload of cash trying to keep up with it. They've given up. We can't afford it.

So now we're faced with a broke government that hasn't invested in things like infrastructure in decades, and it's going to have to make some deep cuts, because we simply can't afford things like asphalt and concrete and steel anymore. Food prices are going up, and food availability is going down. Water is getting scarce, and harder to purify. Medical care is too expensive, and people are too sick to afford to treat. Every service the government has a hand in providing, especially to the poor, is getting more expensive.

And there's a surplus of labor.

Trump is the consultant you bring in when you need to fire people. You hire an asshole, let him piss off the whole company, and then when he's gone you issue a sincere apology, tell everyone that will never happen again, and let's all pull together to fix the damage. Except the damage never really gets fixed; it's the exact damage that management needed.

Trump can cut food stamps, and it will be the fault of the poor. Trump can cut medical care, can cut services to rural communities, can even do things like raise the age limit on social security, and it won't be the fault of the elites. It will be the poor people, the angry voters. The ones that got duped into electing a corporate figurehead as a populist revolutionary.

Public relations is a wonderful thing.

Expect things to get very, very bad for the poor and the sick in our society in the next few years. As resources get scarce, we are throwing our weak to the wolves.
posted by MrVisible at 2:17 PM on November 13, 2016 [86 favorites]

Since Trump doesn't conform to the Republican orthodoxy, the GOP money men will be happy to see him impeached, and replaced with a more pliable Mike Pence.

But he has value as the attention-sucking lightning rod at the top of the diagram, leaving the next level to actually run things without so much scrutiny.

He's Junior Soprano.
posted by rokusan at 2:18 PM on November 13, 2016 [4 favorites]

MrVisible: Obamacare isn't a failure because it's ideologically wrong or financially unsound, it's a failure because it was implemented with an understanding that Americans were relatively healthy.

Plus, your healthcare is a lot more expensive than it needs to be, compared to other industrialised countries.
posted by Too-Ticky at 2:22 PM on November 13, 2016 [16 favorites]

Well this is reassuring from John Kasich's Chief of Staff.

@JWGOP
The racist, fascist extreme right is represented footsteps from the Oval Office. Be very vigilant America.
posted by chris24 at 2:25 PM on November 13, 2016 [47 favorites]

MrVisible: Trump is the consultant you bring in when you need to fire people. You hire an asshole, let him piss off the whole company, and then when he's gone you issue a sincere apology, tell everyone that will never happen again, and let's all pull together to fix the damage. Except the damage never really gets fixed; it's the exact damage that management needed.

Ok, when I need my dystopian near-future fiction fix, I'm coming back to you. It's frighteningly plausible.

(But who's the management in this scenario? The Wisdom of Crowds?)

Also, I am convinced that years from now, this cartoon will be remembered as profound.
posted by RedOrGreen at 2:25 PM on November 13, 2016 [9 favorites]

"One friend of a friend posted a link to a story on the protests and commented, "This is not how mature adults handle disappointment" and I've been simmering about it ever since."

To dust off an old gem from a dark era, Appeasement is not the way mature adults handle a demogogue. (I have a feeling we'll find a lot of vocabulary and rhetoric from that era revived in the coming years.)
posted by klarck at 2:27 PM on November 13, 2016 [21 favorites]

I wish I had 5 minutes to sell Trump on a patriotic American Health Service with military style uniforms and flags everywhere, a great project to improve the USA's infrastructure and strength, but which would just actually be a clone of the wonderful U.K. National Health Service rebranded as a Republican idea.
posted by w0mbat at 2:31 PM on November 13, 2016 [12 favorites]

As terrible as it would be for us, wouldn't the French see what's going on in Trump's America and Brexit U.K. and be deterred accordingly?

I am not certain that the worst of the visible economic consequences will have hit by the time of the French election. Social consequences, such as an awful empowering of ignorant, racist bastards, don't seem to have deterred anyone so far. Most of the visible 'punishment' of the UK cannot happen until Article 50 is triggered.

On the other hand, the French have faced this sort of showdown before and I would hope they would vote for the less fascistic option despite Marine Le Pen's charisma.

The next pinch point is the Italian constitutional referendum on December 4. I cannot pretend to understand the details but given the wobbliness of the EU and the particular wobbliness of Italian banks, it could cause further instability.

As a Brit, I would like to apologise personally for the nauseating shithouse rat Nigel Farage, who is apparently trying to ensconce himself up the arse of Donald Trump. It really has been unedifying to watch the near-nervous breakdown in the press because Trump loves Farage but only phoned Theresa May ninth. Only ninth! Is the special relationship all for naught?!1!1eleventy?!
posted by finisterre at 2:34 PM on November 13, 2016 [9 favorites]

From the last thread- I mean what if a few more country music stars had campaigned with her, would that draw in those few extra rural/suburban white women she needed? It just gets silly after a while, but when margins are that small, really almost anything slightly different could have done the trick in theory. (Or hurt her chances too of course, but that is never the point of the exercise.)

If we're going to get into fun but pointless hypotheticals, one wonders if Clinton could have gotten the apolitical Taylor Swift to join Jay-Z and Beyonce as one of her celebrity spokespeople. The internet NEET segment of the alt-right would have schismed.
posted by Apocryphon at 2:35 PM on November 13, 2016 [1 favorite]

The problem with that limits to growth chart is the same one Neo-Malthusianism always has: Those categories are essentially meaningless without elaboration. "Services to the public" and "resources" have incredibly broad potential interpretations, and there is almost zero reason to suspect the birth rate will actually increase along with pollution, or with a decline of services and resources.

Nonetheless, that's exactly the kind of chart the oligarchs will be using to backup the policy solution you mention (I know it's not *your* policy position) and it's the same one the Malthusians always go for: Let the poor die. A lot of people in this thread have already predicted it.
posted by aspersioncast at 2:37 PM on November 13, 2016 [6 favorites]

I wish I had 5 minutes to sell Trump on a patriotic American Health Service with military style uniforms and flags everywhere, a great project to improve the USA's infrastructure and strength, but which would just actually be a clone of the wonderful U.K. National Health Service rebranded as a Republican idea.

The US Public Health Service is the uniformed health corps of the Department of Health and Human Services. Its head is the Surgeon General.
posted by snuffleupagus at 2:37 PM on November 13, 2016 [3 favorites]

in a bad call for my mental health needs, I researched Steve Bannon and am now having the following thoughts:

--I'm glad my partner has six months of emergency essentials stocked
--I must stop thinking of Threads
--I must stop thinking about Threads

And also:

Dear God, whatever God that exists, what might Thou do to save us?

I am in the bargaining stage?
posted by angrycat at 2:39 PM on November 13, 2016 [5 favorites]

This article was probably posted this summer in the election threads, but I thought it was the most insightful thing I ever read about Trump, so I'm reposting. Here are the key insights from a psychologist and writer who specializes in psychological profiles of the Presidents:

The Mind of Donald Trump by Dan. P. McAdams

Across his lifetime, Donald Trump has exhibited a trait profile that you would not expect of a U.S. president: sky-high extroversion combined with off-the-chart low agreeableness. . . . A cardinal feature of high extroversion is relentless reward-seeking. . . . Indeed, anger may be the operative emotion behind Trump’s high extroversion as well as his low agreeableness. Anger can fuel malice, but it can also motivate social dominance, stoking a desire to win the adoration of others. Combined with a considerable gift for humor (which may also be aggressive), anger lies at the heart of Trump’s charisma. . . .

Like Bush, a President Trump might try to swing for the fences in an effort to deliver big payoffs—to make America great again, as his campaign slogan says. . . . Because he is not burdened with Bush’s low level of openness (psychologists have rated Bush at the bottom of the list on this trait), Trump may be a more flexible and pragmatic decision maker, more like Bill Clinton than Bush: He may look longer and harder than Bush did before he leaps. And because he is viewed as markedly less ideological than most presidential candidates (political observers note that on some issues he seems conservative, on others liberal, and on still others nonclassifiable), Trump may be able to switch positions easily, leaving room to maneuver in negotiations with Congress and foreign leaders. But on balance, he’s unlikely to shy away from risky decisions that, should they work out, could burnish his legacy and provide him an emotional payoff. . . .

The real psychological wild card, however, is Trump’s agreeableness—or lack thereof. There has probably never been a U.S. president as consistently and overtly disagreeable on the public stage as Donald Trump is. If Nixon comes closest, we might predict that Trump’s style of decision making would look like the hard-nosed realpolitik that Nixon and his secretary of state, Henry Kissinger, displayed in international affairs during the early 1970s, along with its bare-knuckled domestic analog. . . .

In sum, Donald Trump’s basic personality traits suggest a presidency that could be highly combustible. One possible yield is an energetic, activist president who has a less than cordial relationship with the truth. He could be a daring and ruthlessly aggressive decision maker who desperately desires to create the strongest, tallest, shiniest, and most awesome result—and who never thinks twice about the collateral damage he will leave behind. Tough. Bellicose. Threatening. Explosive. . . .

As the social psychologist Jesse Graham has noted, Trump appeals to an ancient fear of contagion, which analogizes out-groups to parasites, poisons, and other impurities. In this regard, it is perhaps no psychological accident that Trump displays a phobia of germs, and seems repulsed by bodily fluids, especially women’s. . . . Disgust is a primal response to impurity. On a daily basis, Trump seems to experience more disgust, or at least to say he does, than most people do. . . .

For Trump, the concept of “the deal” represents what psychologists call a personal schema—a way of knowing the world that permeates his thoughts. . . . Trump’s focus on personal relationships and one-on-one negotiating pays respect to a venerable political tradition. . . . Amid the polarized political rhetoric of 2016, it is refreshing to hear a candidate invoke the concept of compromise and acknowledge that different voices need to be heard. Still, Trump’s image of a bunch of people in a room hashing things out connotes a neater and more self-contained process than political reality affords. It is possible that Trump could prove to be adept as the helmsman of an unwieldy government whose operation involves much more than striking deals—but that would require a set of schemata and skills that appear to lie outside his accustomed way of solving problems. . . .

People with strong narcissistic needs want to love themselves, and they desperately want others to love them too—or at least admire them, see them as brilliant and powerful and beautiful, even just see them, period. The fundamental life goal is to promote the greatness of the self, for all to see. . . . In a 2013 Psychological Science research article, behavioral scientists ranked U.S. presidents on characteristics of what the authors called “grandiose narcissism.” Lyndon Johnson scored the highest, followed closely by Teddy Roosevelt and Andrew Jackson. Franklin D. Roosevelt, John F. Kennedy, Nixon, and Clinton were next. Millard Fillmore ranked the lowest. Correlating these ranks with objective indices of presidential performance, the researchers found that narcissism in presidents is something of a double-edged sword. On the positive side, grandiose narcissism is associated with initiating legislation, public persuasiveness, agenda setting, and historians’ ratings of “greatness.” On the negative side, it is also associated with unethical behavior and congressional impeachment resolutions. . . .

Like all of us, presidents create in their minds personal life stories—or what psychologists call narrative identities—to explain how they came to be who they are. . . . A growing body of research in personality, developmental, and social psychology demonstrates that a life story provides adults with a sense of coherence, purpose, and continuity over time. . . . the first chapter in Donald Trump’s story, as he tells it today, expresses nothing like Bush’s gentle nostalgia or Obama’s curiosity. Instead, it is saturated with a sense of danger and a need for toughness: The world cannot be trusted. . . . Trump has never forgotten the lesson he learned from his father and from his teachers at the academy: The world is a dangerous place. You have to be ready to fight. The same lesson was reinforced in the greatest tragedy that Trump has heretofore known—the death of his older brother at age 43. . . . Donald, who doesn’t drink, loved his brother and grieved when he died. “Freddy just wasn’t a killer,” he concluded.

In Trump’s own words from a 1981 People interview, the fundamental backdrop for his life narrative is this: “Man is the most vicious of all animals, and life is a series of battles ending in victory or defeat.” The protagonist of this story is akin to what the great 20th-century scholar and psychoanalyst Carl Jung identified in myth and folklore as the archetypal warrior. According to Jung, the warrior’s greatest gifts are courage, discipline, and skill; his central life task is to fight for what matters; his typical response to a problem is to slay it or otherwise defeat it; his greatest fear is weakness or impotence. The greatest risk for the warrior is that he incites gratuitous violence in others, and brings it upon himself. . . . The story here is not so much about making money. As Trump has written, “money was never a big motivation for me, except as a way to keep score.” The story instead is about coming out on top. . . .

But what broader purpose does winning the battle serve? What higher prize will victory secure? Here the story seems to go mute. You can listen all day to footage of Donald Trump on the campaign trail, you can read his books, you can watch his interviews—and you will rarely, if ever, witness his stepping back from the fray, coming home from the battlefront, to reflect upon the purpose of fighting to win—whether it is winning in his own life, or winning for America. . . . Donald Trump’s story—of himself and of America—tells us very little about what he might do as president, what philosophy of governing he might follow, what agenda he might lay out for the nation and the world, where he might direct his energy and anger. More important, Donald Trump’s story tells him very little about these same things.

Nearly two centuries ago, President Andrew Jackson displayed many of the same psychological characteristics we see in Donald Trump—the extroversion and social dominance, the volatile temper, the shades of narcissism, the populist authoritarian appeal. . . . What’s more, Jackson personified a narrative that inspired large parts of America and informed his presidential agenda. His life story appealed to the common man because Jackson himself was a common man—one who rose from abject poverty and privation to the most exalted political position in the land. Amid the early rumblings of Southern secession, Jackson mobilized Americans to believe in and work hard for the Union.

Who, really, is Donald Trump? What’s behind the actor’s mask? I can discern little more than narcissistic motivations and a complementary personal narrative about winning at any cost. It is as if Trump has invested so much of himself in developing and refining his socially dominant role that he has nothing left over to create a meaningful story for his life, or for the nation. It is always Donald Trump playing Donald Trump, fighting to win, but never knowing why.

Sorry for the extreme length.
posted by sallybrown at 2:41 PM on November 13, 2016 [40 favorites]

With his tirades against nonwhites and foreign others, he reopened the argument. In effect, he gave white voters a choice: They could continue down the path of multiracial democracy—which coincided with the end of an order in which white workers were the first priority of national leaders—or they could reject it in favor of someone who offered that presumptive treatment. Who promised to “make America great again,” to make it look like the America of Trump’s youth and their youths, where whites—and white men in particular—were the uncontested masters of the country.

In the same way it has always been possible for white Americans to love black individuals and vote for the subjugation of black people, it is also possible to like Barack Obama and also yearn for a return to this idealized past, especially in a world that is tenuous and unstable. Which means that, in the case of the Obama/Trump voter, all we have is a case of simple preference order. When the choice was between Obama and a conventional Republican, these voters chose Obama. But when the choice was between Obama’s flawed successor and a man who promised to restore their greatness, Trump won.
-Why did some white Obama voters go for Trump?
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 2:43 PM on November 13, 2016 [8 favorites]

The US Public Health Service is the uniformed health corps of the Department of Health and Human Services. Its head is the Surgeon General.

Fun fact: they have their own march and military band:

The mission of our service is known the world around
In research and in treatment no equal can be found
In the silent war against disease no truce is ever seen
We serve on the land and the sea for humanity
The Public Health Service Team

Funner fact: if you really want to freak out a Public Health Service officer, start playing the march when they walk into a room.
posted by zachlipton at 2:45 PM on November 13, 2016 [29 favorites]

But they've backed themselves into a corner where they have to repeal obamacare but don't dare repeal obamacare. It's going to be interesting watching them try to square that circle.

Maybe they could take a page from Trump's business practice and just keep it exactly the way it is but re-brand it as "Trump Care"?....
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 2:47 PM on November 13, 2016 [5 favorites]

Whatever it was Comey, I hope it was worth it.

/spits
posted by adept256 at 2:51 PM on November 13, 2016 [27 favorites]

--I must stop thinking about Threads

Trump, being a businessman based in construction, is not going to want to risk having his gaudy properties getting blown up. And if we are unexpectedly ironically turning into a Russian client state, that makes nuclear war even less likely.

On the other hand there's trade war against China turning hot and/or Duterte mucking about and/or South Sea saber-rattling. But they have far fewer nuclear weapons than Russia. And he has business relations with them, too.

I think given the foreign intervention the U.S. has gotten into since 9/11, any sort of military adventurism would 1) need to be couched in actual justifications (i.e., anti-terrorism) and 2) against soft, unstable states. Trump could get us in trouble with fighting someone's proxy state, but I don't think even he will be willing to stare down another superpower.

I think freaking out about WWIII is premature when we have so many other things that we can be panicking about already.
posted by Apocryphon at 2:53 PM on November 13, 2016 [3 favorites]

Maybe they could take a page from Trump's business practice and just keep it exactly the way it is but re-brand it as "Trump Care"?....

I was thinking the same thing. Except I figured that they would at least have to do some cosmetic tinkering to show that they did something. Then they just sell it. 'President Trump studied this long and hard using his tremendous business experience and best brain. He has deemed it fit for you now.' Enjoy Trumpcare the best health care plan that has ever existed in the world ever.

Then all he has to do is go around and talk about it in his rallies like that and and there you go, it's a done deal.

Worked with his supporters during the election so why would that change now?
posted by Jalliah at 2:53 PM on November 13, 2016 [4 favorites]

I doubt this is what conservative evangelicals were imagining.

@maggieNYT
Trump on gay marriage to 60 Mins: "These cases have gone to the Supreme Court. They've been settled. And- I'm-- I'm fine with that."
posted by chris24 at 2:55 PM on November 13, 2016 [31 favorites]

If the EU was able to 'punish' Britain for Brexit it would have done so already.

a Brexit aside - The starting gun for Brexit, article 50, hasn't even been fired yet, largely because the British government doesn't know what it's post Brexit plans are, or even if it is legally able to invoke article 50 without further government approval. I have no doubt the rest of the EU isn't planning to give much quarter at the negotiating table, but other than that there isn't really much they can do until Britain actually starts the process of leaving.
posted by Jon Mitchell at 2:56 PM on November 13, 2016 [8 favorites]

@ChrisWarcraft
So the anti-Semitic guy is chief strategist. I wonder what his *strategy* might consist of. I'm guessing he has some solutions.
posted by chris24 at 2:58 PM on November 13, 2016 [7 favorites]

Mod note: A couple comments removed. jeffburdges, stop looping back around to the pied piper thing, and in general we've had to talk to you before about not essentially linkbombing threads and I need you to start showing some more restraint there again.
posted by cortex (staff) at 3:00 PM on November 13, 2016 [7 favorites]

He did say in the 60 Minutes interview that he wanted to repeal Roe and leave it to the states to decide. So not all good news on the culture war front.
posted by chris24 at 3:02 PM on November 13, 2016 [4 favorites]

Trump is probably one of those horrible bosses who thinks it's a genius idea to have two people below him on the chain who hate each other and constantly fight; that this in some way hashes out ideas and keeps them both "honest." Oh and of course he gets more than double the flattery and brownnosing by keeping them set against each other. It's like Team of Rivals: Moron Version.
posted by sallybrown at 3:02 PM on November 13, 2016 [21 favorites]

If he is really going to make it clear that marriage equality should remain in place, which it looks like he will, I hope that those of us who benefitted from the hard work that was done for us between Windsor and Obergefell will show up for everyone else now.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:04 PM on November 13, 2016 [44 favorites]

two people below him on the chain who hate each other and constantly fight; that this in some way hashes out ideas and keeps them both "honest."

Didn't Roosevelt operate like that? He really is the anti-FDR.
posted by Apocryphon at 3:04 PM on November 13, 2016

Didn't Roosevelt operate like that? He really is the anti-FDR.

Lincoln famously appointed his Republican primary competitors to his Cabinet, saying "We need the strongest men of the party in the Cabinet. We needed to hold our own people together. I had looked the party over and concluded that these were the very strongest men. Then I had no right to deprive the country of their services."

I can't think of anyone more different from Trump than Lincoln. Ugh. Ugh ugh ugh anytime I pause and think about this it just makes me heartsick again.

This 4 years is going to be like that one season of Friday Night Lights that was awful and people pretend it didn't happen.
posted by sallybrown at 3:07 PM on November 13, 2016 [8 favorites]

Trump is probably one of those horrible bosses who think it's a genius idea to have two people below him on the chain who hate each other and constantly fight; that this in some way hashes out ideas and keeps them both "honest."

Don't forget the role of his kids, especially Ivanka and her husband Jared Kushner, who are probably going to be a real force acting between the advisers and Trump without any oversight. Just hope Kushner does lean towards some liberal positions as has been sometimes claimed.
posted by gusottertrout at 3:08 PM on November 13, 2016

Sometimes I'm so despondent about this that I just think over and over "Trump loves Ivanka and Ivanka and Jared must love their kids; he has at least those reasons for not wanting to risk blowing the world up in a nuclear holocaust."
posted by sallybrown at 3:09 PM on November 13, 2016 [6 favorites]

So going forward into 2018 and 2020, who are the leading younger left/Democrats who will be national candidates? Maybe Cory Booker, Tulsi Gabbard? Who else? The leaders we have now are aging and may not be up for another run. Has all the gerrymandering not only kept Democrats from national office, but also prevented new faces from gaining prominence? (Maybe this should be a question on Ask but everyone here is pretty engaged with the subject).
posted by dilettante at 3:10 PM on November 13, 2016 [4 favorites]

And that's fine as far as it goes, but how likely do you think that his SCOTUS appointments will feel the same way? Is he going to refuse to appointment someone who feels differently? Of course not.

Right now, he will just be replacing Scalia, who was on the losing side of that, anyway. Unless one of the liberal justices or Kennedy is replaced, and a case is brought, and goes all the way through the court system, which can take years, there was nothing that could be done anyway.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:10 PM on November 13, 2016 [2 favorites]

Meanwhile, over at Psephizo (a UK-based evangelical blog), they've been asking: why did Trump win? Alastair Roberts thinks he knows the answer. It was all MetaFilter's fault (yes, really).
posted by verstegan at 3:11 PM on November 13, 2016 [57 favorites]

So it appears that white nationalists and alt righters are working on their plans to show up at the inaugartion. They're calling for full regalia and encouraging people to bring their Confederate and other flags. I've seen post saying things along the lines of, 'don't worry, we have free speech and we're not only aloud to do this now, we need to do this now.'

Maybe it's bluster and very few will show up or they'll chicken out of the showing it outwardly part but what in the hell happens if they do? The Inauguration just turns into shitshow of people fighting each other? People just sitting there and taking it for the sake of civility of the country? And what the fuck happens if these dudes literally start heiling him as his motorcade goes by because if there is enough of them they sure as shit will.

This is an unbelievable but plausible potential horror show. I want to think that secret service or I dunno someone, anyone would step in and try to stop it somehow.
posted by Jalliah at 3:12 PM on November 13, 2016 [13 favorites]

I might also speculate that since Bannon is an asshole with serious anger problems and those kind of guys don't deal well with others of their ilk, he might be the first one to get the boot should a scapegoat be needed or serious conflict starts annoying Donnie. I mean, that's my hope anyway since that might spark an alt-right rebellion against Trump.
posted by gusottertrout at 3:14 PM on November 13, 2016 [2 favorites]

Reid not backing down after Kellyanne Conway's threat this morning.

“It only took five days for President-elect Trump to try to silence his critics with the threat of legal action. This should shock and concern all Americans.

“Trump has always used threats and intimidation to silence his critics. Now he wants to silence a discussion of the acts of hate and threats of violence being committed in his name across the country. Silencing this discussion normalizes hate and intimidates the victims.

“The facts are stark and shocking. Since Trump was elected, acts of hate against Muslims, Jews, women and people of color have spiked dramatically. The KKK is planning a parade to celebrate Trump’s victory because the KKK sees Trump as their champion. Today, a headline in one newspaper reads, ‘Popular neo-Nazi site urges readers to troll liberals into suicide,’ while another reads, ‘Post-election spate of hate crimes worse than 9-11.’

“But instead of rising to the responsibility of his office, Trump is hiding behind his Twitter account and sending his staff on TV to threaten his critics.

“If this is going to be a time of healing, Trump must take action immediately to stop the acts of hate and threats of violence that are being committed in his name across the country. Trump owes the nation leadership, not petty attempts to silence his critics.”

posted by chris24 at 3:14 PM on November 13, 2016 [119 favorites]

And Trump has supposedly picked Reince as Chief of Staff

None of these people are going to last. He's going to go through senior staff like kleenex.
posted by futz at 3:15 PM on November 13, 2016 [16 favorites]

If the Trump administration does get us into a war, it'd be something stupid and out of nowhere, against a state small enough to bully. Maybe his Minutemen Corps will get us into a shooting war with cartels who increasingly turn into coyote operations due to falling drug prices from legalization/decrminalization. Cyberwar with cartel IT teams hacking the Drone Wall. "Security intervention" in Central America against gangs to prevent immigration. Something brutish but localized.
We are literally living in cyberpunk now
posted by Apocryphon at 3:17 PM on November 13, 2016 [3 favorites]

If the Trump administration does get us into a war, it'd be something stupid and out of nowhere, against a state small enough to bully. Maybe his Minutemen Corps will get us into a shooting war with cartels who increasingly turn into coyote operations due to falling drug prices from legalization/decrminalization. Cyberwar with cartel IT teams hacking the Drone Wall. "Security intervention" in Central America against gangs to prevent immigration. Something brutish but localized.
We are literally living in cyberpunk now

I'm calling it now. We'll be in Iran by 2020. But who knows, I predicted Hillary by 9pm.
posted by Talez at 3:19 PM on November 13, 2016 [10 favorites]

We take the high road...they did not. They won. We look forward to winning things later on. But there is this: they are very likely to put a very conservative new member and possibly two on the Supreme Court...That will not be nice for changes we would like.
posted by Postroad at 3:19 PM on November 13, 2016 [1 favorite]

I think RBG would put herself into cryostasis before she gave Trump the satisfaction of appointing her successor.
posted by corb at 3:23 PM on November 13, 2016 [9 favorites]

@MerriamWebster
📈 Top lookups right now, in order:
fascism
bigot
xenophobe
racism
socialism
resurgence
xenophobia
misogyny
posted by chris24 at 3:24 PM on November 13, 2016 [28 favorites]

How on earth can Jared Kushner possibly tolerate Bannon? I just don't understand.
posted by TwoStride at 3:25 PM on November 13, 2016 [7 favorites]

Bannon had better restrain his anti-semitic tendencies or he'll face the wrath of Jared Kushner, who as a family member is closer to Donald than any appointed advisor. Just having both of them as his ONLY connection to the Media is just adding to my expectation of internal White House conflict reaching the level of shitshow.
posted by oneswellfoop at 3:26 PM on November 13, 2016 [1 favorite]

With Iran, I'm going to go 'optimistic' that if Trump manages to steer foreign policy, and if he really is a closet Russophile, then there can't be conflict with Russian ally Iran. Already, we're seeing a slight alignment with Assad, or at least a removal of support for the anti-Assad rebels. My guess is that he's going to redo the Iran treaty into something that favors his business interests and those of his supporters; there's a lot of money to be made with reopening Iran back to the global economy.
posted by Apocryphon at 3:27 PM on November 13, 2016 [3 favorites]

Whatever it was Comey, I hope it was worth it.

Read his Wikipedia entry. He's been considered for SCOTUS before.
posted by lazycomputerkids at 3:28 PM on November 13, 2016

NYC: Four New School Dormitory Doors Vandalized With Swastikas
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:31 PM on November 13, 2016 [3 favorites]

Hey guys, I thought of a new form of nightmare scenario. What if Trump decides on a whim to switch parties after Paul Ryan annoys him one too many times, and runs as a Democrat in 2020?
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 3:31 PM on November 13, 2016 [7 favorites]

Read his Wikipedia entry. He's been considered for SCOTUS before.

Honestly, I'd take him over any of the extremists on Trump's list.
posted by chris24 at 3:32 PM on November 13, 2016 [3 favorites]

Meanwhile, over at Psephizo (a UK-based evangelical blog), they've been asking: why did Trump win? Alastair Roberts thinks he knows the answer. It was all MetaFilter's fault (yes, really).

Progressive liberals represent the enervated heart of a culture without deep civilizational confidence, energy, and vigour. As people, they are obsessed with discussing transgressive sex and sexuality, yet are increasingly struggling to reproduce themselves. While they expect the ever-continuing expansion of what they deem civilization, its conveniences, and its pleasures, they are afflicted by a deep and wasting decadence. They have failed to feed the hunger for meaning and purpose in the human soul, perhaps the most devastating failure of the movement of all. Despite its current cultural dominance and power, such a movement cannot survive indefinitely. The future of America and Europe belongs to peoples who have the cultural energy that liberalism lacks.

I don't know what to make of this criticism, which is aimed directly at Mefites. It seems to basically be trashing progressives for not believing in god (which is factually untrue, it's a big tent and he's clearly never heard of William Barber) and being sex-obsessed wastes of human life. His overwhelming narrative seems to be that we should find religion and stop worrying about the rights of marginalized groups because the real marginalized people are Christians, who face "cultural extinction" at our hands. Well, 83% of Americans identify themselves as Christian, 29% specifically as Evangelical.

His main point is that liberal progressive are bad and should feel bad, as he attacks us for engaging in generalizations about Trump voters and cherrypicks a handful of Mefi comments from 2am on election night to make sweeping conclusions.
posted by zachlipton at 3:32 PM on November 13, 2016 [50 favorites]

Bannon had better restrain his anti-semitic tendencies or he'll face the wrath of Jared Kushner, who as a family member is closer to Donald than any appointed advisor. Just having both of them as his ONLY connection to the Media is just adding to my expectation of internal White House conflict reaching the level of shitshow.

I assume you are joking about this. No?

I mean, just because Jared Kushner is Jewish doesn't mean we can rely on him to take a stand against anti-Semitism. Where has he been for the past year? Writing a column defending Trump against charges of anti-Semitism does not count, I think.
posted by grobstein at 3:34 PM on November 13, 2016 [12 favorites]

Where has he been for the past year?

I am not defending Kushner. I firmly believe for the past year, he gave not one thought to Trump actually winning.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:36 PM on November 13, 2016 [3 favorites]

I'm hoping Trump goes with self-interest and appoints his sister the federal judge to the Supreme Court. I'll take cronyism over someone who's definitely anti-Roe.
posted by sallybrown at 3:36 PM on November 13, 2016 [14 favorites]

I mean, just because Jared Kushner is Jewish doesn't mean we can rely on him to take a stand against anti-Semitism.

Yeah, I'll never find it now but Josh Marshall tweeted about Bannon and Kushner being thick as thieves and there were pix of them laughing together, being buds.
posted by chris24 at 3:37 PM on November 13, 2016 [3 favorites]

There was a detail in a recent news article that says a lot about Kushner - when touring the West Wing post-election, he asked how many of the people there would be staying to work in the Trump Administration.
posted by sallybrown at 3:37 PM on November 13, 2016 [12 favorites]

NYC: Four New School Dormitory Doors Vandalized With Swastikas

And at Reed College, along with many racial slurs.
posted by zachlipton at 3:37 PM on November 13, 2016 [2 favorites]

I don't know what to make of this criticism, which is aimed directly at Mefites. It seems to basically be trashing progressives for not believing in god

I guess he missed our long discussion about Kaine throwing gospel shade at Pence.
posted by sallybrown at 3:38 PM on November 13, 2016 [7 favorites]

I'm hoping Trump goes with self-interest and appoints his sister the federal judge to the Supreme Court.

Yep, people need to start tweeting how great a pick she'd be and how he'd be so smart to choose her. Play to his ego and nepotism.
posted by chris24 at 3:39 PM on November 13, 2016 [6 favorites]

His, ahem...79 year old sister...
posted by sallybrown at 3:40 PM on November 13, 2016 [9 favorites]

Questioning Safety Pin Solidarity Revealed Why I Can't Trust White People.
posted by TwoStride at 3:43 PM on November 13, 2016 [37 favorites]

His overwhelming narrative seems to be that we should find religion and stop worrying about the rights of marginalized groups because the real marginalized people are Christians, who face 'cultural extinction' at our hands.

Worrying about the rights of marginalized groups comes directly from Jesus.

For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’”

posted by kirkaracha at 3:44 PM on November 13, 2016 [31 favorites]

Medicare is dead.

Josh Marshall over at TPM.

Be prepared to fight, poison pill amendments etc. Also say good bye to the filibuster, so embrace the anonymous hold judicial vacancies.
posted by Max Power at 3:44 PM on November 13, 2016 [6 favorites]

Questioning Safety Pin Solidarity Revealed Why I Can't Trust White People.

Oh, this. The reaction from people of color, and mostly women of color, to these damn safety pins, has been swift and vocal.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:45 PM on November 13, 2016 [19 favorites]

Meanwhile, over at Psephizo (a UK-based evangelical blog), they've been asking: why did Trump win? Alastair Roberts thinks he knows the answer. It was all MetaFilter's fault (yes, really).

They have wilfully ignored the evidence that high ethnic diversity often directly undermines the intangible communal values and meanings that many people most care about: trust, affinity, belonging, heritage, etc. They have failed to attend to the marked differences between cultures and to the much deeper affinities that certain groups have to America’s historic values and identities. While this definitely need not mean that diversity is undesirable, it should allow for a conversation about a more prudential immigration policy.

Hi, Psephizo. I am so pleased to be able to live up to your stereotype of a MeFite or failed progressive or whatever by noting that this is racist.
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:46 PM on November 13, 2016 [61 favorites]

More on Judge Maryanne Trump Barry, who has both "architectural hair" and the distinction of being called a "radical pro-abortion extremist" by Ted Cruz.
posted by sallybrown at 3:46 PM on November 13, 2016 [5 favorites]

Honestly, I'd take him over any of the extremists on Trump's list.

On social issues (gay marriage and abortion) Comey's not an extremist. The fact that he left the State department for the private sector and returned to be appointed a ten-year position heading the FBI is dangerous. His unprecedented 11-day letter is a form of unilateral extremism. The drama of its insinuation could not have been engineered to be more damaging. The rationale was preposterous: My agents tell me these could be important, but we don't have a warrant yet...Explain myself? Oh, well, it was a matter of "secret" recordings made of witnesses and all I was doing was vouchsafing the agency's credibility and transparency.

He was not innocent of the FBI's culture war surrounding Hillary. Comey was read into Whitewater while at State.

In the future, a more cooperative State and ongoing FBI file can stage a coup d'état in these terms, if one doesn't consider meddling in an election that already.
posted by lazycomputerkids at 3:47 PM on November 13, 2016 [9 favorites]

"Bannon had better restrain his anti-semitic tendencies or he'll face the wrath of Jared Kushner, who as a family member is closer to Donald than any appointed advisor. "

Ivanka Trump, whom you may have heard of, is also Jewish and is closer to him in every way. However, it is probably asking too much that her father remember this about her when nobody else can.

even if he does, we already know he remembers she's female and that has not done any other women any good, however wrathful she may get about it on her own time.
posted by queenofbithynia at 3:48 PM on November 13, 2016 [4 favorites]

The safety pin thing is tough. I understand the articles I've read declaiming it. But there are also people of color in my life whom I love who have explicitly told me it makes them feel better. The lesson of the safety pins for me is wear them, and let the meaning of them guide both your thoughts and your actions. They should be just the beginning of your activism. And, as always, lashing out at someone who justifiably questions their utility and sincerity is not the answer.
posted by sallybrown at 3:51 PM on November 13, 2016 [22 favorites]

I can see the frustration with the safety pin thing, because in a lot of ways, it resembles the exact kind of slacktivism that people do where they embrace a symbol, feel good about it, and do precisely nothing else.

That's... not gonna move us forward. Symbols alone are not useful action.
posted by Archelaus at 3:54 PM on November 13, 2016 [11 favorites]

Medicare is dead.

Only for people yet to enter into the system.

Literally a fucking middle finger from the baby boomers to everyone else in the country.
posted by Talez at 3:54 PM on November 13, 2016 [32 favorites]

Trump is probably one of those horrible bosses who thinks it's a genius idea to have two people below him on the chain who hate each other and constantly fight; that this in some way hashes out ideas and keeps them both "honest."

They figure that if competition works among competing teams, then competition works within the team, essentially destroying cooperation and teamwork. Enron enshrined this philosophy, and I would guess that Wells-Fargo did so as well, since everyone there was incentivized to create fake accounts or lose their job. Worth noting that narcissists hate criticism and need a steady supply of flattery and approval. Trump will likely surround himself with yes-men, and in war and diplomacy, this leads to negative outcomes.
posted by Brian B. at 3:55 PM on November 13, 2016 [2 favorites]

I know what I want to do in the days going forward: see what little part I can play in revitalizing the Democrats at the local and state level. I'm in California, which already has a robust Democratic party, and just sent Kamala Harris (a WOC!) to the Senate. But I think it's important to turn the purple states blue and at least some of the red states purple.

I believe that the Dems have really erred in prioritizing the big races over the local. The Republicans have been paying attention and have put their people in from the bottom up. Not only has this gotten us Trump, it has gotten us a Republican House and Senate who could obstruct Obama's policies. It's great to have a Democrat in the White House, but if Congress is going to obstruct them, there's little that a President can do but hold back the tide. I think "not sweating the small stuff" is the fatal error the Dems have made.

Two of our most prominent progressive politicians - Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren - are in their 70's. The Dems can't afford to die off. And sick, starving people aren't going to be doing much about climate change, because people stuck in survival mode aren't going to pay attention to larger issues. And I'm not ready to think of Doomsday Scenarios, but I don't like the idea of a majority Republican House, Senate, and state governors deciding to ratify some awful Constitutional amendments.

Time for a major, major local action push.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 3:55 PM on November 13, 2016 [30 favorites]

background to the safety pin thing.
posted by andrewcooke at 3:55 PM on November 13, 2016

Ivanka Trump, whom you may have heard of, is also Jewish and is closer to him in every way. ...even if he does, we already know he remembers she's female and that has not done any other women any good

Which is why I didn't mention her; she converted when she married Jared and Donald will just assume anything she says is under his influence. The current close relationship between Kushner and Bannon is weird, but it may just signify Bannon's ability to kiss the asses that need to be kissed.
posted by oneswellfoop at 3:56 PM on November 13, 2016

I can see the frustration with the safety pin thing, because in a lot of ways, it resembles the exact kind of slacktivism that people do where they embrace a symbol, feel good about it, and do precisely nothing else.

That's... not gonna move us forward. Symbols alone are not useful action.

But haven't there also been studies showing that the choice to take a small easy step makes it more likely that the person also takes a bigger step in the same direction? In other words, wearing the safety pin could move people who otherwise wouldn't speak out toward a more active role?
posted by sallybrown at 3:57 PM on November 13, 2016 [11 favorites]

The next time I see somebody wearing a safety pin, I'm going to ask them to name their state's Senators and Representatives.
posted by Sticherbeast at 3:58 PM on November 13, 2016 [10 favorites]

I've also read on social media, pretty sure it was tumblr, that the alt-righters have found out about the safety pin thing and have encouraged each other to wear them. And I don't know how many of them would actually do that in real life but they take a distinct pleasure in hurting people, so, yeah, that's something to be aware of.
posted by Neronomius at 3:59 PM on November 13, 2016 [5 favorites]

So going forward into 2018 and 2020, who are the leading younger left/Democrats who will be national candidates? Maybe Cory Booker, Tulsi Gabbard? Who else?

Some of the people on this list will be to the right of where metafilter would like them to be, but:

Kamala Harris
Antonio Villaraigosa
Kirsten Gillibrand
Amy Klobuchar
O'Malley again
Andrew Cuomo
Kaine again
Tammy Duckworth
Chris Murphy
Martin Heinrich
Rahm Emanuel, ugh
Kate Brown?

Other people are older but would still be young enough for 2020, like:

Terry McAuliffe
Russ Feingold
Jay Nixon
Sherrod Brown
Al Franken
John Hickenlooper

And there are people who would probably be looking at 2024 or later, like Julian Castro
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 4:00 PM on November 13, 2016 [17 favorites]

The next time I see somebody wearing a safety pin, I'm going to ask them to name their state's Senators and Representatives.

I can only name the rep for my district (Newhouse), but the Senators are Patty Murray and Maria Cantwell. Then again, I was on the phone for an hour with their offices the day they passed the stupid "sue the Saudis for 9/11" bill.
posted by Archelaus at 4:03 PM on November 13, 2016 [2 favorites]

The next time I see somebody wearing a safety pin, I'm going to ask them to name their state's Senators and Representatives.

Can you let us know what other requirements you have for people to be allies that aren't, like, "be an ally"?
posted by Etrigan at 4:04 PM on November 13, 2016 [81 favorites]

The next time I see somebody wearing a safety pin, I'm going to ask them to name their state's Senators and Representatives.

How snide. Really. Snide. Sally Brown's speculation is one about study, not rhetoric or assertions about what's sufficient.
posted by lazycomputerkids at 4:04 PM on November 13, 2016 [26 favorites]

The next time I see somebody wearing a safety pin, I'm going to ask them to name their state's Senators and Representatives.

You might be joking...

But is that a good idea? I know my state politicians and I would think you were an ass if you asked me that. Especially if you were (well, anyone actually) a white dude. It's alienating and feels like you are asking if someone is stupid.
posted by futz at 4:04 PM on November 13, 2016 [19 favorites]

Hey guys, I thought of a new form of nightmare scenario. What if Trump decides on a whim to switch parties after Paul Ryan annoys him one too many times, and runs as a Democrat in 2020?

He'd get his ass kicked in the primary.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 4:05 PM on November 13, 2016 [9 favorites]

Which is why I didn't mention her

yeah, but it's not just you or just now or I wouldn't get commenty about it. nobody ever does mention her in this context although she's been talked about as the only person who can talk her dad around in plenty of other contexts. there was some widely-shared article a week or two back that explicitly categorized Kushner as "a Jew" and I. Trump as "a convert to Judaism." there is a very widespread attitude everywhere I look that she isn't real and doesn't count and isn't expected to personally object to Bannon et al. for herself, only possibly maybe on her husband's behalf. and it bothers me a lot. I am not specifically mad at or about your comment or even objecting much to it but I am very bothered by the general tone taken about the couple.

maybe I am reading the wrong things. I am certainly reading too much.
posted by queenofbithynia at 4:05 PM on November 13, 2016 [4 favorites]

My senators are Tom Cotton and John Boozman. Don't make me say it.
posted by box at 4:08 PM on November 13, 2016 [6 favorites]

I'm not expecting Ivanka not to object to Bannon, but as Trump's daughter and somebody else's wife, she'd just be dismissed by the sexist pig.
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:09 PM on November 13, 2016

My husband and I are already well known to our Rep (Mike Doyle-D). Also our city councilwoman, or at least her staffers. I canvassed to make sure Toomey was no longer or senator, but alas. Casey is in there until 2018.
posted by soren_lorensen at 4:10 PM on November 13, 2016 [2 favorites]

Did Russia Install Donald Trump As the Next U.S. President?

This Story Should Dominate the News Until Trump Is Sworn In

White House Reviewing Democratic Coalition Report On Trump’s Russian Ties That FBI Ignored
posted by homunculus at 4:12 PM on November 13, 2016 [9 favorites]

Starting to read through the writings of Vaclav Havel.

Dude had first hand experience with taking down a Russian-installed authoritarian regime, for starters.

I recommend starting with "The Power of Words."

That said, it's dated. In a world of pictorial communication (memes, emoji, selfies et cetera), words lose a lot of their power.
posted by ocschwar at 4:12 PM on November 13, 2016

More on Judge Maryanne Trump Barry, who has both "architectural hair" and the distinction of being called a "radical pro-abortion extremist" by Ted Cruz.

She seemed pleasant, or at the least respectful; and gave a large donation to the main care home in the Hebrides.

Her brother, despite a high profile and politicized fly-in (some of the local councillors fawned in the hope of a large donation, while other councillors were ... less respectful), gave nothing.

Picture of them both, outside their mom's house.
posted by Wordshore at 4:14 PM on November 13, 2016 [1 favorite]

My church passed out safety pins this morning. I know it's not perfect, but it's a first step. Our diocese as a whole is working on racial reconciliation,so there will be further conversation and action.
posted by Biblio at 4:18 PM on November 13, 2016 [10 favorites]

The anti-Semitism thing, while important, feels like a bit of a derail to me, though, because for the first time in I don't know how many centuries, Jews only just barely make the top 5 of undesirables for this administration - after Muslims, Mexicans, other immigrants, journalists, and possibly LGBTQ people, depending on how much power Pence gets. Usually despots go after the Jews first, since we're enough of a minority to be the thin edge of the wedge to see how far you can go next. That we're mostly grandfathered in to this hatefest - only called out in dogwhistles so far where everyone else gets overt attacks - feels like progress to me. Thanks Ivanka!
posted by Mchelly at 4:19 PM on November 13, 2016 [4 favorites]

This 4 years is going to be like that one season of Friday Night Lights that was awful and people pretend it didn't happen.

Can it maybe instead be like that one season of Dallas that ended with Bobby in the shower?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:19 PM on November 13, 2016 [9 favorites]

In a world of pictorial communication (memes, emoji, selfies et cetera), words lose a lot of their power.

cite please
posted by lazycomputerkids at 4:20 PM on November 13, 2016 [1 favorite]

cite please

TL:DR
posted by cashman at 4:21 PM on November 13, 2016 [14 favorites]

In a world of pictorial communication (memes, emoji, selfies et cetera), words lose a lot of their power.

cite please

Real Neal Postman's "Amusing Ourselves To Death."

No, really.

He was criticizing television's effect on society, but social media, especially micro-blogging-and-picture-based social media has amplified the effects television once had.
posted by ocschwar at 4:22 PM on November 13, 2016 [9 favorites]

It is probably just a fantasy, but I can't help but hope that Obama has some kind of trick up his sleeve left between now and January. Just something to hold on to, some huge number of pardons or something.
posted by sallybrown at 4:24 PM on November 13, 2016 [3 favorites]

Yeah, that's why nobody got mad at Comey since they had to read something for once.
posted by I-baLL at 4:25 PM on November 13, 2016 [2 favorites]

It would be amazing if the White House could vet, say, a dozen people who have been subjected to racist attacks this week and bring them to meet President Obama soon.

Of course, that would only just make those individuals a target for even more attacks.
posted by zachlipton at 4:27 PM on November 13, 2016 [2 favorites]

It's gonna be amusing seeing the far-far-right white nationalists have aneryusms once Prez Trump hosts the annual Happy Hanukkah and Passover Seder photo ops from the White House with Jared, Ivanka, and co.
posted by Apocryphon at 4:29 PM on November 13, 2016 [2 favorites]

Priebus? FFS. Now I'll never get this out of my head.
posted by homunculus at 4:29 PM on November 13, 2016

Oh goody: apparently Trump now says that he's going to let the pre-existing condition protections lapse and re-establish state high-risk pools. Because those worked great.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 4:33 PM on November 13, 2016 [4 favorites]

at this point i kind of wish i had paid for express processing on my passport
posted by entropicamericana at 4:35 PM on November 13, 2016 [1 favorite]

If somebody asks who my elected reps are, I can tell them easily:
My senators are Diane Feinstein (meh.) and currently Barbara Boxer (who was on my shortlist of who I'd prefer as the first Woman President to Hillary C.), soon to be replaced by Kamala Harris (who hasn't made my shortlist YET but probably will). My congresscritter (yes, I use the term even for those I like) is Lois Capps who retired this year after barely beating the Republican son of a celebrity two years ago and will be replaced by a dude named Salud* Carbajal who beat a more generic R more easily (pending some yet-counted absentee ballots; read anything you wish into that). Don't even get me into the state and county races; the oddities of district non-gerrymandering here make it two D majority and one R majority districts. Real Politics near me (without intrusion by outside celebrities or their sons) is entertaining enough for someone who's not an idiot or a hatemonster.

*yes, his first name is (direct translation) Health, (slang translation) Cheers!
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:38 PM on November 13, 2016 [1 favorite]

as per Reuters, Trump U asks for a delay in proceedings until inauguration. I suppose it could be something reasonable like lawyers being too busy trying to hide things that could be the basis of future impeachment proceedings. As opposed to the fucking fascist move it looks like.
posted by angrycat at 4:38 PM on November 13, 2016 [5 favorites]

So CBS News, which let Trump walk over them on 60 Minutes (seriously, if the man wants to speak to the American People without being asked anything resembling a tough question, let him do it with his own damn video camera) described Bannon as "former Goldman Sachs executive."
posted by zachlipton at 4:39 PM on November 13, 2016 [4 favorites]

Team Trump’s “New deal” for African-Americans

He’s not offering a two-for-one sale. At least not yet. But try to guess where Trump sent his proposed policy to improve the lives of African-Americans:

A. The NAACP.

B. Ebony.

C. Mediatakeout.com ‘The most visited urban website in the world.’

D. The Congressional Black Caucus.

E. President Barack Obama.

F. The National Museum of African American History & Culture.

Of course they did.

[...]

So, one could classify this as a standard empty political gesture. After all, if the Dick à l’Orange really wanted to make a show of good faith to African-Americans and other minorities he’d stand up in front of the cameras and tell his admiring goons to stop attacking and harassing people.

However, this isn’t an empty gesture, it’s a Fuck you and a muttered threat to African-Americans. As a bonus, it will allow Trump supporters and their pseudoliberal enablers to say See? He’s trying, and to become obnoxious because we don’t fall to our knees and thank him.

posted by tonycpsu at 4:39 PM on November 13, 2016 [12 favorites]

John Kasich's chief strategist continuing on his anti-Bannon tirade.

@JWGOP
Let's be clear here media. Stop using "Alt Right." It is the racist, anti-semitic, fascist extreme right. Please be clear & stop normalizing
posted by chris24 at 4:43 PM on November 13, 2016 [61 favorites]

Bannon should be called a white supremacist and neo-Nazi, because that is what he is.
posted by sallybrown at 4:45 PM on November 13, 2016 [18 favorites]

Let's be clear here media.

But it is the truth. Hmmm.
posted by futz at 4:45 PM on November 13, 2016

Doesn't Bannon refer to himself and his rag as alt right?
posted by futz at 4:47 PM on November 13, 2016

The "Liberal Media" has been "normalizing" Trump since he got his first building with his name on it. And anybody who kisses his ass enough will end up "normalized" with him.
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:47 PM on November 13, 2016 [2 favorites]

I'm stunned to see THIS piece coming from Cosmopolitan magazine, but - there's some food for thought about that bit with Kate McKinnon singing "Hallelujiah" on SNL yesterday.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:47 PM on November 13, 2016 [36 favorites]

Oh goody: apparently Trump now says that he's going to let the pre-existing condition protections lapse and re-establish state high-risk pools. Because those worked great.

This is figuratively going to be throwing the last eight years out the window. Eight years of hard fought, extremely difficult negotiation is going to be wiped from the nation's history. I'd weep for the people who these changes are going to destroy but my tear ducts are dry from the past few days.
posted by Talez at 4:50 PM on November 13, 2016 [6 favorites]

As far as I am aware Trump can't remove the pre-existing conditions protections without nuking the filibuster.
posted by Justinian at 4:53 PM on November 13, 2016 [3 favorites]

(He can, however, completely blow up the entire insurance market to try to force Democrats to agree to removing the pre-existing conditions protections.)
posted by Justinian at 4:55 PM on November 13, 2016 [2 favorites]

As far as I am aware Trump can't remove the pre-existing conditions protections without nuking the filibuster.


"Your terms are acceptable"
posted by ocschwar at 4:55 PM on November 13, 2016 [1 favorite]

As far as I am aware Trump can't remove the pre-existing conditions protections without nuking the filibuster.

You do realize January 20th it's gone, right?
posted by Talez at 4:57 PM on November 13, 2016 [1 favorite]

The Latest: Trump tells supporters to stop harassment

President-elect Donald Trump is demanding that any of his supporters who are harassing people or destroying property “stop it.”

He tells CBS’s “60 Minutes” that he is “saddened” to hear that is happening. He says, “I will say it right to the cameras: Stop it.”
posted by futz at 4:57 PM on November 13, 2016 [3 favorites]

@JWGOP
Let's be clear here media. Stop using "Alt Right." It is the racist, anti-semitic, fascist extreme right. Please be clear & stop normalizing

If only actual elected Republicans had this same level of courage.
posted by tonycpsu at 4:58 PM on November 13, 2016 [11 favorites]

Oh, this. The reaction from people of color, and mostly women of color, to these damn safety pins, has been swift and vocal.

A bunch of my very left friends on the FB were all in on this and then the PoC were like 'um no'. Most have doubled down with 'but but I'm still gonna wear one!'
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 4:59 PM on November 13, 2016 [6 favorites]

He tells CBS’s “60 Minutes” that he is “saddened” to hear that is happening. He says, “I will say it right to the cameras: Stop it.”

The 60 Minutes interview was taped two days ago. CBS released a clip of the Obamacare segment that day, but held this back until tonight. That's unconscionable.
posted by zachlipton at 5:02 PM on November 13, 2016 [62 favorites]

If there is evidence that confidential White House information was used in business decisions related to a Trump business, what kind of legal remedy is there other than impeachment? They aren't publicly traded companies so there wouldn't be an insider trading concern, right? And as far as I'm aware, a private citizen can't sue the President for, say, making a government decision that enriches him personally - isn't there some kind of immunity?
posted by sallybrown at 5:02 PM on November 13, 2016

You do realize January 20th it's gone, right?

They didn't remove the filibuster 10 years ago when they had both houses of Congress and the Presidency so it's not completely obvious they'll do it this time. Not out of genuine respect for tradition and process, mostly, but rather because McConnell knows that at some point in the not so distant future they will probably be in the minority and need the filibuster themselves.

It's possible they will make the calculation that it's worth paying that price. But like I said, last time they decided it wasn't worth it and that decision paid off when Obama had majorities. If the filibuster had not been in place in 2008/2009 Obama could have pushed through literally anything.
posted by Justinian at 5:07 PM on November 13, 2016 [7 favorites]

Well, here's one pre-election poll that got it right.
posted by oneswellfoop at 5:13 PM on November 13, 2016

Ha ha ha. wtf?
Gingrich said Bannon cannot be an anti-semite because he worked in Goldman Sachs and with Hollywood.

This can't be real. It's just can't be real.
posted by Jalliah at 5:15 PM on November 13, 2016 [47 favorites]

@ROU_Xenophobe - I like your list, but if you're going to cal out Antonio Villaraigosa as a national candidate, you'd better add Gavin Newsom to that short list, too. Former mayor of San Francisco, current Lt. Governor of CA, unilaterally gave the green light to same sex marriage in SF before it was "legal", led the successful effort to legalize marijuana in CA. He has his flaws and enemies, but he is a young, successful, rising face in the progressive wing of the Democratic party.
posted by mosk at 5:17 PM on November 13, 2016 [6 favorites]

Obama could have pushed through literally anything.

But he wouldn't have because all Americans etc.

I cancelled Thanksgiving today. Am considering a pre-emptive ban and media blackout for the holidays.
posted by petebest at 5:18 PM on November 13, 2016 [2 favorites]

My guess is that McConnell and Schumer will work out a deal where the filibuster is preserved if the Democrats agree not to attempt to filibuster, say, Supreme Court nominees. That's more or less the deal they worked out last time under Obama.

As much as we'll hate the nominees it's a deal worth making. Because the alternative isn't preventing the nominee, it's the nominee being confirmed anyway and also losing the filibuster. Theoretically they could limit the nuclear option to judicial appointments but once the first domino falls it's a lot more likely the second one falls as well.
posted by Justinian at 5:19 PM on November 13, 2016 [5 favorites]

This can't be real. It's just can't be real.

This stuff is going over like gangbusters for anyone who thinks political correctness is the most grave threat facing our nation.
posted by tonycpsu at 5:21 PM on November 13, 2016 [10 favorites]

Mosk: him too. I wasn't trying to be exhaustive. I thought of Villaraigosa because in 2020 he may well have been governor of California for two years.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 5:23 PM on November 13, 2016

Harvard Business Review: How to Build an Exit Ramp for Trump Supporters

For those who are interested, it was written before the election, but the rhetorical strategies are valid anyway.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 5:23 PM on November 13, 2016 [10 favorites]

Upper West Side, New York:"I don't have to do anything for your kind anymore."

I think being prepared to stand up to people, like the kind man in this story did, is going to be really important.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:24 PM on November 13, 2016 [11 favorites]

You might be joking...

I am of course joking - of *course* I am not going to literally ask people that - but I happily stand by the point of my joke. If you (the general you) think that politics is important, then you are going to be reasonably informed when it comes to your state-level politics. And if you care about politics, then you are going to try to be in some way active when it comes to bringing people over to the better side of a vote, etc. If you (the general you, not you specifically) are comfortable with knowing little and doing less, then you do not really care about politics. You might have good intentions somewhere inside of you - you might *want* to be interested - but you do not *actually* care. You can't say "yeah, I really like soccer, but I don't know how to play it and I don't follow any games." Maybe the safety pin will lead to something else - that something else is the thing we're all waiting for. Until then, time wasted on pins annoys those of us who are *not* comfortable with Trump's America.

harumph harumph harumph
posted by Sticherbeast at 5:26 PM on November 13, 2016 [1 favorite]

Ha ha ha. wtf?
Gingrich said Bannon cannot be an anti-semite because he worked in Goldman Sachs and with Hollywood.

Where are all the conservatives who happily go to AIPAC and take credit for being Israel-friendly? Warm weather friends? The kind of friend who pals around with you on the playground until the bully walks over?
posted by sallybrown at 5:26 PM on November 13, 2016

A lot of those guys don't actually like Jews, they just hate Muslims more.
posted by Justinian at 5:27 PM on November 13, 2016 [13 favorites]

Sticherbeast - genuinely asking this, not trying to bait you - isn't it more than possible to not give a shit about politics but be strongly committed to racial equality and justice? More than a few people feel that "both sides" work to oppress people of color.
posted by sallybrown at 5:28 PM on November 13, 2016 [7 favorites]

They didn't remove the filibuster 10 years ago when they had both houses of Congress and the Presidency so it's not completely obvious they'll do it this time. Not out of genuine respect for tradition and process, mostly, but rather because McConnell knows that at some point in the not so distant future they will probably be in the minority and need the filibuster themselves.

It's an interesting question. A few days ago I was pretty convinced that the Republicans would nuke the filibuster as soon as they can -- they have the majority for now and they have things they want to be and they don't care about norms as long as they can maintain the appearance of them or can successfully explain them away.

I still think it may be a possibility but I wonder if Republican congressional leadership will decide they have more leverage with Trump if they keep it. They'll have to hope he doesn't make it a big issue between now and January. And that no one close to him explains to him that he really needs the filibuster to die if he doesn't want his power to be dissipated into the great time-suck that is Congressional Gridlock.

I imagine Ryan and McConnell and their staff are having furious conversations about how much they distrust or fear Trump / are worried about his erratic ability to derail their agenda. They were looking forward to a narrow Hillary victory that would let them maintain their comfortable (and profitable) position screaming from the sidelines while the Democratic President took the hits, made the tough calls and generally repudiated the right wing back into its lair so they could come back in 2018 as the New, Forward-Looking Middle American Party. Now they're fucked; not only are they concerned about the possibility for their country's or the world's general destruction* but they also do know this balancing act they've had to do for this whole campaign will be even harder during this four-year extension.

The norms that were the ligaments holding our system together are being cut. Without them, the bones and muscles theoretically have the power and structure to hold things up, but they won't be able to do so for long.

Party unity is still dead in the GOP. As someone linked above, this is 'Sultanism', rule by the person or group that has the ear of the autocrat.

*I am assuming they do have extant souls here
posted by tivalasvegas at 5:28 PM on November 13, 2016 [11 favorites]

A lot of those guys don't actually like Jews, they just hate Muslims more.

Not to mention that they need Israel for their eschatological fantasies.
posted by Slothrup at 5:29 PM on November 13, 2016 [19 favorites]

Maybe start using this ACLU app that records incidents of hate and directly uploads them to their server before your phone can be destroyed: https://www.aclu.org/feature/aclu-apps-record-police-conduct
posted by cynicalidealist at 5:31 PM on November 13, 2016 [9 favorites]

Yeah some of us have long warned that people primarily interested in using Israel to further their end times scenarios aren't exactly stable long-term allies.
posted by zachlipton at 5:32 PM on November 13, 2016 [10 favorites]

Where are all the conservatives who happily go to AIPAC and take credit for being Israel-friendly? Warm weather friends? The kind of friend who pals around with you on the playground until the bully walks over?

I think they tend to like a fairly specific kind of Jew, who mostly lives in their head. These Jews are very much like Evangelical Christians, except that they don't yet believe in Jesus. (And some of them do believe in Jesus. Republicans looooove Messianic Jews, who are Christians who keep kosher.) The Jews they like mostly live in Israel, and they certainly don't live anywhere near the conservatives. Good Jews don't expect anything from American society. They don't care if teachers recite the Lord's Prayer in public schools, because they live in Israel or else they send their kids to yeshivas where they don't bother any normal people. They vote Republican, which not very many real, actual, non-fantasy Jews do.

These folks tend to despise actual, real, living Jews, but they don't think they're anti-semites, because they are really very fond of the Jews who live in their heads.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 5:34 PM on November 13, 2016 [50 favorites]

There's a whole separate Safety Pin thread, btw.
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:34 PM on November 13, 2016

I'm really hoping my liberal friends stop talking about annoying self-important feel good gestures.

Ultimately, your influence on public affairs boils down to these questions:

1. What are you willing to give up? (Time. Money. Health)
2. What are you willing to endure?
3. What are you willing to inflict?

Feel good gestures just don't tip the scale. Neither does a few days of protesting in November. You have to be ready to do something sustained for four years.

More importantly, since the GOP is intent on entrenching its gerrymandered advantage and continue to win elections, popular vote be damned, you have to be willing to do something sustained to show that the GOP does not have legitimacy with such elections. Day. After. Day. And get others to follow suit.

Apropos, time to read more Vaclav Havel. back later.
posted by ocschwar at 5:35 PM on November 13, 2016 [26 favorites]

" The current close relationship between Kushner and Bannon is weird, but it may just signify Bannon's ability to kiss the asses that need to be kissed."

Nah, there are always people who have a favourite or pet Jew or two and say "oh, I didn't mean him", or "you're one of the good ones", or "I mean the other kind of Jew." This goes for all kinds of racism, of course.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 5:36 PM on November 13, 2016 [8 favorites]

Sticherbeast - genuinely asking this, not trying to bait you - isn't it more than possible to not give a shit about politics but be strongly committed to racial equality and justice? More than a few people feel that "both sides" work to oppress people of color

If you feel that a Trump Presidency is literally every bit as good as a Clinton Presidency for racial equality, etc., then I will bid you good-day. Be well, we have nothing to talk about, I don't know why you're in this thread, but okay.

On the other hand, if you *do* think that a Trump Presidency is worse than a Clinton Presidency, then yes, since you asked, I really do believe that you really ought to start caring about politics.
posted by Sticherbeast at 5:37 PM on November 13, 2016 [4 favorites]

Quite a few pet Jews survived all the way to VE Day.
posted by ocschwar at 5:38 PM on November 13, 2016 [2 favorites]

The other thing I'm seeing a lot of is that you can't believe Bannon's ex since it was a divorce trial, so she was obvs making it up. After all, in Trump's America all women are liars (especially in court). It said so right in the campaign!
posted by Mchelly at 5:39 PM on November 13, 2016 [2 favorites]

If you feel that a Trump Presidency is literally every bit as good as a Clinton Presidency for racial equality, etc., then I will bid you good-day. Be well, we have nothing to talk about, I don't know why you're in this thread, but okay.

Please don't make this about me. I'm not a person of color and was not talking about myself. I care deeply about politics. I gave the experience of having friends of color who felt comforted by the safety pin thing. You reacted by saying you wanted to ask people wearing safety pins if they knew their Representatives. I'm just saying I don't think everyone who does care about structural and personal racism in this country and acts to try and stop it is going to necessarily pass your test.
posted by sallybrown at 5:42 PM on November 13, 2016 [39 favorites]

I really do believe that you really ought to start caring about politics.

That's NOT what you and others are asserting. You're asserting what's sufficient.
posted by lazycomputerkids at 5:44 PM on November 13, 2016 [2 favorites]

I don't think you necessarily have to pass a trivia quiz on your elected representatives to prove you care, but if you really care about equality and justice, some participation in politics seems like a prerequisite.

As an example, take Colin Kaepernick, who says he didn't vote. Even if he truly somehow had no position on who should be President, did he also have no opinion on the death penalty in CA, weed legalization, funding for schools, or criminal justice reform? Because that stuff is at least as important, if not, you know, infinitely more impactful, than his physical position during the National Anthem.
posted by zachlipton at 5:47 PM on November 13, 2016 [5 favorites]

Feministing - Hey White People, You Need To Start Doing The Ugly Work That Isn't Safe For Us To:

But someone’s got to tackle this. We can’t sustain a country that visits systematic rural deprivation on a large swath of its population. We can’t keep actively fostering the conditions for social and economic unrest. We can’t — you can’t, especially, if you’re middle class, white, and from an urban area — use your #woke credentials as an excuse to blind yourself to the ugly truths of unequal distribution. You don’t have to hug a Trump supporter, or even understand their racism, to do the simple work of fixing socio-economic despair that is the breeding ground for fascism. You can’t hide behind your POC friends to hide away from how you’re the only people with the power, safety, and privilege to ensure this doesn’t happen again. That the politicians you spend so long Facebook posting celebrity endorsements in enthusiastic support for actually give a shit about demographics that aren’t you, whether poor folk or people of color. You’re the only people who can get through to other white people, and the only ones who can push your politicians to care about more expansive communities.

You don’t get to deflect anymore, or defer responsibility to someone less perfect than you for not having turned up to the polls and voted for Hillary. You have to fight the battles that aren’t safe for other people to fight, you have to show the empathy that other people can’t, you have to engage where only your voice will be heard. You have to shoulder the struggle. Anything less is complicity.

posted by corb at 5:48 PM on November 13, 2016 [53 favorites]

The safety pin thing doesn't feel like a super-meaningful gesture to me, but I guess I'm confused by the idea that the people doing it aren't otherwise invested in politics. That isn't what I'm seeing among people I know.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 5:49 PM on November 13, 2016 [13 favorites]

@blippoblappo (previously) critiques the notion that the white working class shifted massively to Trump:

Folks say rural "Obama-to-Trump" counties demonstrate how the white working class massively shifted to Trump. Be wary of that narrative.

Take rural, white Richland County, WI. Went for Obama (twice) & Trump. Looking at voting %, it seems to prove that WWC shifted from D to R:

Raw voting totals in Richland County tell a different story. Most WWC Obama voters didn't go to Trump. They went 3rd party or stayed home:

Same story in very white Columbia County, WI. Looking at the % masks that 2/3rds of Obama leavers likely went 3rd party or stayed home:

There's not a clear narrative, of course. Take rural, white Elk County, PA. Went for Obama in 2008, Romney in 2012, Trump in 2016:

@BobbyBigWheel (some guy) responds:

Be careful with small counties, statistically noisy

Which blappo acknowledges.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 5:56 PM on November 13, 2016 [11 favorites]

yeah, but [the erasure of Ivanka being Jewish] is not just you or just now or I wouldn't get commenty about it. nobody ever does mention her in this context although she's been talked about as the only person who can talk her dad around in plenty of other contexts. there was some widely-shared article a week or two back that explicitly categorized Kushner as "a Jew" and I. Trump as "a convert to Judaism." there is a very widespread attitude everywhere I look that she isn't real and doesn't count and isn't expected to personally object to Bannon et al. for herself, only possibly maybe on her husband's behalf. and it bothers me a lot. I am not specifically mad at or about your comment or even objecting much to it but I am very bothered by the general tone taken about the couple.

maybe I am reading the wrong things. I am certainly reading too much.

No, you're actually right on. This comment really made me rock back on my heels and think. It's very hard for me to think of Ivanka as "really Jewish" and hard to imagine her being the target of antisemitic hate. I'd had this sense that her converting to Jewish was just a formality for her marriage; and she could de-convert just as easily, like if she ever divorced him. As if the profound fakeness of Tromp himself reflected onto Ivanka's faith. That's profoundly insulting and disrespectful, and I'm glad you brought this up.

(And I'm sorry for laying it out in such hurtful terms.)
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 5:58 PM on November 13, 2016 [9 favorites]

Well, here's one pre-election poll that got it right.

No way, he's busy playing first base.
posted by waitingtoderail at 6:02 PM on November 13, 2016 [2 favorites]

I just emailed 60 Minutes to ask why they held back tape for two days of Trump telling his supporters to stop harassing people during which time hundreds of people were harassed.

As far as I'm concerned, CBS News bears some responsibility for every single one of those incidents this weekend.
posted by zachlipton at 6:03 PM on November 13, 2016 [31 favorites]

Don't forget his own culpability. If he really cared about violence, he would have held a press conference himself.
posted by Apocryphon at 6:04 PM on November 13, 2016 [51 favorites]

"This stuff is going over like gangbusters for anyone who thinks political correctness is the most grave threat facing our nation."

It's not just them, it's a large majority of middle-aged white men. People I read every day and who I've trusted -- such as Josh Marshall and Kevin Drum -- these are white liberal guys in my age range who have always sort of, kind of, "gotten it" with regard to racism and sexism but I am very strongly reminded of the great MetaFilter Sexism Wars of 2007 -- the forgotten history of that time is that there was a huge contingent of people, all the way to the top, who thought the whole thing was overblown and that this was a bout of oversensitive people pushing their own special interests.

Which is to say that I'm increasingly hearing these little messages from people like Drum and Marshall and all sorts of other progressive white men who think, yeah, PCism really has perhaps run a little amok and that these young tumblr radicals and social justice warriors on places like MetaFilter and elsewhere are, possibly, part of the problem and not part of the solution. And you know why they think this? Because they have WHITE MALE PRIVILEGE and they haven't done even remotely the work they need to do to understand just how wrong about all this stuff they truly are. They are feeling some stirrings of defense of privilege, just like we see some surprising progressive people here on MeFi, and this is a big problem.

These people aren't going to go away. The die-hard misogynists and the KKK racists have been around a long time and they're not going anywhere, but the real issue facing the US and much of Europe is that white, male privilege is eroding and that motivates those who have taken that privilege for granted, those who don't even recognize they truly have it, to very slowly and without realizing it, empower people like Trump and the points of view that he represents. They normalize dialogue that should never be allowed to be normalized.

Josh Marshall has been all over the final ad that Trump made that hit all the antisemitic issues, which most of the rest of the press has ignored (even though the ADL condemned it) and that's because on that one issue alone, with Marshall being both Jewish and a historian, he hears those dogwhistles and sees those patterns clearly. But as a straight, white, cisgendered, middle-class male American, there's a whole hell of a lot that he's not recognizing or minimizing that's real and it's not going away. This is also why a lot of people on the farther left of the spectrum, who rightly admire many things about Sanders, were a bit blind to the Bernie Bros and some of the misogyny. Those of us who don't live this ever day, don't see many things for what they really are; we minimize the dangers that are being signaled. Susan Faludi wrote Backlash way back in 1991 and I think that other than the women feminists who recognized the truth of what she was saying, for many other people it seemed to be an overreaction and the thought that the tide of history was with us. And, sure, in the long run history is probably with us. But as Keynes said, in the long run we're all dead. In the meantime, we have to deal with the very powerful and angry backlash from the privileged discovering that their toys are slowly being taken away from them.

Marshall pointed out that Nate Cohn mentioned that whites have, for the first time, voted essentially as a minority, thinking in terms of their collective interests as a minority. This is not going to stop. And it's going to infect more people than we expect it to -- we've already seen friends and family and neighbors receptive to this rhetoric, and we're going to continue to see it because it's not until empowered, entrenched factions begins to really feel threatened -- but emboldened -- that things get truly ugly. This isn't going to get better, it's going to get worse.

And this is why wearing safety pins is insufficient. I just ordered BLM t-shirt that I plan to wear and, here in Kansas City, Missouri, may well be attacked for wearing it in public. So be it. This is the world we live in now.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 6:05 PM on November 13, 2016 [58 favorites]

Don't forget his own culpability. If he really cared about violence, he would have held a press conference himself.

Oh absolutely. He professed to be basically unaware, and Leslie Stahl let him get away with saying it was "one or two instances." But I expect Trump to be terrible, I should expect CBS News to at least not sit on the footage for days as people are waking up to swastikas on their doors.

Not that I have any faith, of course, that Trump's words will lead to any reduction in harassment and violence in any way.
posted by zachlipton at 6:09 PM on November 13, 2016 [11 favorites]

I'm increasingly hearing these little messages from people like Drum and Marshall and all sorts of other progressive white men who think, yeah, PCism really has perhaps run a little amok and that these young tumblr radicals and social justice warriors on places like MetaFilter and elsewhere are, possibly, part of the problem and not part of the solution. And you know why they think this? Because they have WHITE MALE PRIVILEGE and they haven't done even remotely the work they need to do to understand just how wrong about all this stuff they truly are.

And because it's theoretical to them, they feel they can signal "ok guys we get it, but can't you be strategic and kind of give it a rest right now." And also "come on guys you're kind of embarrassing us with all this carry-on."

Which kind of thing is exactly what Martin Luther King was talking about in Letter from a Birmingham Jail: "Frankly, I have yet to engage in a direct action campaign that was 'well timed' in the view of those who have not suffered unduly from the disease of segregation. For years now I have heard the word 'Wait!' It rings in the ear of every Negro with piercing familiarity. This 'Wait' has almost always meant 'Never.'"
posted by sallybrown at 6:11 PM on November 13, 2016 [44 favorites]

As far as I'm concerned, CBS News bears some responsibility

CBS News takes no responsibility, and upholds no social ties with its viewers. Les Moonvees crapped his pants with joy and is rolling in his celebration cash pen now.
posted by petebest at 6:12 PM on November 13, 2016 [6 favorites]

these chances are even better if a recession hits between now and 2018.

the keynesian party is just going to get rolling then.

expect overseas corporate profits to be repatriated, everybody paying half the income taxes they are now (tax credits to the 47%), federal spending boosted noticeably after being frozen since 2011.

Don't ask how they're going to pay for this; they're not.
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 6:13 PM on November 13, 2016 [2 favorites]

The Republicans are run by a bunch of cowards but I don't think they are complete idiots. Yeah there might be a desire to swing for the fences but I think Ryan is really just posturing so that Democrats will be willing to give up something less important.

McConnell knows that without the filibuster the power of the minority party goes down significantly and the reality is that the Republican party is more often than not the minority party.

Nuke the filibuster and then try to pass a massive rollback of the Great Society or even New Deal entitlement programs and the pushback from the public would be massive. Even with their current structural advantage in the House and to a lesser extent the Senate trying to rollback SS or Medicare without bipartisan cover would be suicidal for Republicans especially with a narcissistic asshole as President who is already incredibly unpopular. They might be desperate enough to try it but it's a bad move because the 2020 census is not that far away and between reapportionment and the possibility that Democrats would be willing to engage in lots of gerrymandering it's quite possible that Republicans could lose Congress and the Presidency and really only have the SCOTUS to help them.

Between the Republican demographic challenges and the increasing difficulties with creating an effective caucus with their various largely incompatible interest groups I think it would be a very short sided strategy on their part because without the need for a supermajority in the senate (which is very difficult to achieve in the modern era) Democrats could literally slam just about anything through when they inevitably get power back. If Republicans find the programs of FDR and Johnson problematic even though they are generally quite popular I can only imagine their horror in the sort of progressive agenda that Democrats could push through if they get the Trifecta anytime soon.

It's much safer for Republicans to play the long game and shore up their structural advantages around the judiciary rather than go for the big phyrric victory.
posted by vuron at 6:20 PM on November 13, 2016 [4 favorites]

If you don't like
The world you're livin in
Take a look around
At least you got friends

"Let's Go Crazy" in Black Sabbath mode is sort of perfect right now.
posted by petebest at 6:20 PM on November 13, 2016 [1 favorite]

Don't ask how they're going to pay for this; they're not.

Hyperinflation. By the time Donald's done the debt will be a mere 50 euros.
posted by Talez at 6:21 PM on November 13, 2016

yeah, but [the erasure of Ivanka being Jewish] is not just you or just now or I wouldn't get commenty about it. nobody ever does mention her in this context although she's been talked about as the only person who can talk her dad around in plenty of other contexts.

I think this is a really interesting point because in the Orthodox Jewish community, the opposite is sort of true. A significant percentage of Orthodox Jews voted for Trump, and when asked if they're worried about all the anti-Semitic rhetoric, they almost all point to Ivanka as why it can't be real or something to worry about. For the most part no one mentions Jared (the Kushners in general aren't all that beloved outside of their philanthropic work, because of all the family issues). She's completely accepted as one of us, though. Rabbi Lookstein (who oversaw her conversion and is still their rabbi) is well respected. She had sleeves on her wedding dress? She's in.

But at the same time, while I don't think anyone in the religious Jewish community (Orthodox or not) sees Ivanka as not really Jewish, I also don't think most of us think that she would be able to spot a dogwhistle the way someone raised religious all their life might be. Plenty of American Jews - especially young Jews, both religious and not - have literally never seen anti-Semitism here outside of movies and the occasional anti-Israel protest that crosses the line. We've even had talks about it here on Metafilter. Jews fit in - until they don't. So when you see anti-Semitism, your first reaction is shock. That you didn't really hear that, that they didn't really mean that, that it's a coincidence. I do not know how Jared - and even more so, his parents - is not able to see that there's a real problem here. But I wouldn't blame Ivanka for not seeing it, or seeing it and not believing it, the same way. It's not that she's not sufficiently Jewish. It's that belonging-but-not-really-belonging isn't something that's that easy to feel when you haven't experienced it firsthand. And especially not when you grow up always belonging. At least that's my take on it.
posted by Mchelly at 6:24 PM on November 13, 2016 [23 favorites]

President-elect Donald Trump is demanding that any of his supporters who are harassing people or destroying property “stop it.”

He tells CBS’s “60 Minutes” that he is “saddened” to hear that is happening. He says, “I will say it right to the cameras: Stop it.”

The president-elect was asked in the interview conducted Friday if he’s going to use the same, sometimes divisive rhetoric he used during the campaign. He replied that “sometimes you need a certain rhetoric to get people motivated.”

So then the basic message is: "Hey! Stop being incited by the inflammatory hateful rhetoric I fully intend to keep spewing." Lovely.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:26 PM on November 13, 2016 [16 favorites]

I should expect CBS News to at least not sit on the footage for days

This is 60 Minutes, remember. It stopped being responsible journalism years ago.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 6:26 PM on November 13, 2016 [4 favorites]

I just emailed 60 Minutes to ask why they held back tape for two days of Trump telling his supporters to stop harassing people during which time hundreds of people were harassed.

I might email them to ask why they didn't mention that Trump's senior advisor runs a very popular website that claims the hate crimes are fake.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 6:27 PM on November 13, 2016 [34 favorites]

The ADL put out a statement opposing the appointment of Steve Bannon, while AIPAC leadership is reported to be privately apoplectic, which really just makes them chickenshit for not saying anything.
posted by zachlipton at 6:30 PM on November 13, 2016 [24 favorites]

It's much safer for Republicans to play the long game and shore up their structural advantages around the judiciary rather than go for the big phyrric victory.

This is what Democrats said in 2010, and 2014, and 2016. The Republicans kept going for broke and winning big, then blaming any repercussions on Democratic fiscal irresponsibility and just enough people bought it. They own two (and soon, three) branches of government now. They can do what they want, if they stick together -- we have to hope they can't.
posted by tivalasvegas at 6:33 PM on November 13, 2016 [13 favorites]

Yeah, at this point, having been so wrong in thinking "the GOP won't really do [thing that should hurt them politically but probably won't]" and watching them do it, I think I'm going to adjust my expectations and try being wrong the other way for a change. Put me down for "filibuster nuked entirely" come January.
posted by tonycpsu at 6:37 PM on November 13, 2016 [17 favorites]

privately apoplectic = afraid if they take a moral stance they won't get any support after all.

I imagine that's how Christie's feeling right now too.
posted by Mchelly at 6:38 PM on November 13, 2016 [4 favorites]

As people, they are obsessed with discussing transgressive sex and sexuality, yet are increasingly struggling to reproduce themselves. While they expect the ever-continuing expansion of what they deem civilization, its conveniences, and its pleasures, they are afflicted by a deep and wasting decadence.

something something "precious bodily fluids" something something
posted by soundguy99 at 6:40 PM on November 13, 2016 [10 favorites]

I definitely think the desire expressed by white liberal men for PoC and LGBT and Feminist activists to chill with the Social Justice agenda because it's just not the right time dammit is incredibly dangerous and incredibly off-putting.

The reality is that the White Majority has typically done whatever it takes to reestablish their majority status even it means adopting various minority groups into a concept of Whiteness.

Concepts of whiteness have continually expanded as necessary, such as allowing Southern European and Irish Americans into whiteness, or giving honorary whiteness to model minorities, etc. The Republican party is currently at war with itself about whether to extend the concept of whiteness to the Latinx community because it's useful for replenishing declining demographics but there is also a desire by many in the nativist faction of the Republican party to deny whiteness to the Latinx community because so many low income Whites feel intensely threatened by that community.

I suspect there is also attempts to segment the LGBT community by accepting white gay men and white lesbian women as acceptable as long as they don't rock the boat too much and they assimilate to the dominant social norms.

So yeah if I'm a member of a historical disadvantaged community and I start hearing white males tell me to chill out or engage in tone policing I'm pretty sure that I'd get nervous too because even among well educated white liberals there is a conscious/unconscious desire to maintain a concept of whiteness that in some ways privileges those social, racial, cultural norms that are of value to the dominant (white) majority.
posted by vuron at 6:40 PM on November 13, 2016 [43 favorites]

Passing the Baton: Barack Obama has spent eight years expanding the national security state. He will soon hand its full power to Donald Trump.
posted by homunculus at 6:46 PM on November 13, 2016 [11 favorites]

Day. After. Day. And get others to follow suit.

I was thinking today about a passage in the introduction to Studs Terkels' memoir. He talks about two men who worked for civil rights. One was the president of the NAACP in 1954. The other was a former KKK member who, late in life, eventually changed his ways.

E.D. Nixon, former Pullman car porter, president of the NAACP, Montgomery, Alabama. It was he who chose Rosa Parks, his secretary, to do what she did one afternoon. It was he who chose a young pastor from Atlanta, Martin Luther King, Jr., to head the Montgomery Improvement Association and drum-major the bus boycott in 1954. The rest, as they say, is history.

C.P. Ellis, former Grand Cyclops of the Ku Klux Klan, Durham, North Carolina. A poor white; all his life having a hard time of it. One piece of bad luck after another; barely making it from one day to the next.

"I began to get bitter. I didn't know who to blame. I had to hate somebody. Hatin' America is hard to do because you can't see it to hate it. You gotta have somethin' to look at to hate. So I joined the Klan. My father told me it was the savior of the white race."

It was one daily revelation after another. He'd worked as a janitor at Duke University; member of the union; 80 percent black, mostly women. He ran for the full-time job of business agent; his opponent, a black man. As he began his campaign speech, the women shouted him down. "Sit down, Claiborne Ellis. We know all about you." He took a long pause in recounting the moment. It was almost a whisper. "They elected me, four to one." He sobbed softly. "Those women. They knew my heart. You feel so good to go to a plant with those black women and butt heads with professional union busters, college men. And we hold our own against them. Now I feel like somebody for real."

In neither of these cases was there that one overwhelming moment of epiphany. It was no Damascan road they traveled; nor was any one of them struck by a blinding light. It was an accretion of daily revelations and the discovery of where the body was hid. Moments of daily astonishments...

My moment of ultimate astonishment happened about thirty years ago. It was at a public housing project. A young mother. I don’t remember whether she was white or black. The place was mixed. She was pretty, skinny, with bad teeth. It was the first time she had encountered a tape recorder. Her little kids, about four of them, demanded a replay. They insisted on hearing mama's voice. I pressed the button. They howled with delight. She put her hands to her mouth and gasped. "I never knew I felt that way."

No Damascan road. No blinding light. Daily revelations, moments of daily astonishment. Day after day, for a very long time, we are going to have to work for the world we want to see.

There is a book of prayers from the mid-60s called Are You Running With Me, Jesus? It was a popular book and it was a product of its time. I'm not religious, but there is one prayer in there that I heard somewhere and that has stuck with me:

What was Hiroshima like, Jesus, when the bomb fell?

What went through the minds of mothers, what happened to the lives of children, what stabbed at the hearts of men when they were caught up in a sea of flame?

What was Auschwitz like, Jesus, when the crematoriums belched the stinking smoke from the burned bodies of people? When families were separated, the weak perished, the strong faced inhuman tortures of the spirit and the body. What was the concentration camp like, Jesus?

Tell us, Christ, that we, the living, are capable of the same cruelty, the same horror, if we turn our back on you, our brother, and our other sisters and brothers. Save us from ourselves; spare us the evil of our hearts' good intentions, unbridled and mad. Turn us from our perversions of love, especially when these are perpetrated in your name. Speak to us about war, and about peace, and about the possibilities for both in our very human hearts.

Donald Trump is our president-elect precisely because we have that capacity for darkness in our hearts. His supporters need to see, for a very long time, daily revelations and astonishment, until they find their capacity for peace. Until, like the woman astonished at her own voice, they say, "I didn't know I felt that way."

(Also we need to get out the vote in midterms and four years from now and beyond, and a million other very important things. I don't mean to diminish the importance of the real and tangible major goals that need to be met.)
posted by compartment at 6:51 PM on November 13, 2016 [29 favorites]

Compartment: it's my feeling that Trump's supporters having those daily revelations and astonishment is part of what WILL tip the balance for the midterms.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:56 PM on November 13, 2016 [3 favorites]

So yeah if I'm a member of a historical disadvantaged community and I start hearing white males tell me to chill out or engage in tone policing I'm pretty sure that I'd get nervous too because even among well educated white liberals there is a conscious/unconscious desire to maintain a concept of whiteness that in some ways privileges those social, racial, cultural norms that are of value to the dominant (white) majority.

It's tricky because we're all stumbling around here trying to find the balance between a racist accommodation with the resurgent white nationalism that's taken over the government, on the one hand; and contradiction-heightening accelerationism, on the other. Both will hurt those of us who are most in need or in danger.
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:00 PM on November 13, 2016 [2 favorites]

privately apoplectic = afraid if they take a moral stance they won't get any support after all.

I will support them, and so will many other Americans of all faiths. My friend and her family who attend AIPAC every single year will support them, and so will many of their other members.

If not now, when? A neo-Nazi literally just got appointed the chief advisor to the President of the United States.
posted by sallybrown at 7:02 PM on November 13, 2016 [14 favorites]

The various disparate groups that make up the Republican party are all going to converge on the Trump White House thinking they have dominance.

The Social Conservatives think they finally have a guy that will allow them to win the various culture war battles. Of course that's nonsense because if the culture wars are ever actually won by social conservatives they would stop turning out as heavily. No easier to do the Charlie Brown football trick although I think Evangelicals are starting to realize they've been taken for fools.

The White Nationalists think they finally have their guy in office but will quickly be pushed back into the dark corners because explicit racism is really really bad for business.

The small C conservatives will be hoping that they've finally got someone who will allow them to drown the government in the proverbial bathtub. While this is possible I actually see the primary focus of a Trump presidency doing something along the lines of a spoils system where all sorts of monetary benefits go to Trump and Trump supporters.

I think the Authoritarians are actually getting what they want but most of the guys that are being talked about as leading that deep state are more or less utterly incompetent.

So yeah lots of competing factions and lots of them are going to have hurt feelings about how Trump isn't giving them what they want.
posted by vuron at 7:07 PM on November 13, 2016 [9 favorites]

I'm calling it now. We'll be in Iran by 2020.

Nope. Iran is a Russian ally. He is going to do what Bush did with North Korea: Renege on the nuclear deal, allow Iran to get a nuke, then blame Obama for Iran having nukes.

Here's another fun thought: We already know 2018 will be a bloodbath for Democrats in the Senate. Who's taking bets that, should the Republicans get a 2/3 majority they impeach and remove Ruth Bader Ginsburg for saying mean things about Trump?
posted by dirigibleman at 7:09 PM on November 13, 2016 [2 favorites]

The Republicans kept going for broke and winning big, then blaming any repercussions on Democratic fiscal irresponsibility and just enough people bought it.

That doesn't disprove vuron's point however. They didn't have to actually do anything that would really stick. If you're looking at recent history, 2005 provides a good example. First thing Dubya does in his new term is push for SS privatization. He fails so badly, he sets the stage for losing Congress in 2006.

If Ryan et al really try to end Medicare, the pushback will be deafening. AARP will mobilize and go to a war footing, like they did for SS. The campaign ads will write themselves in 2018. And not just for Democratic candidates, but also from Republican primary challengers who will vow: "I will protect your Medicare from those fat cats in Washington."

We're already seeing something very similar playing out in Kansas. People might be happy to vote in a far-right guy because he says all the right things about God, guns, abortion, evil liberals, etc. But when that guy's plans start to actively hurt the services used by the average voter (schools and roads in this case), there's a rebellion. Several moderate Republicans here defeated the incumbents in the primaries by promising full funding for those services. And in a year when Trump won the state overwhelmingly, 13 Democrats took the seats of Brownback supporters. There's enough votes in the legislature now for the anti-Brownback coalition to have a majority. Brownback's push to pack the Kansas courts also failed on election day.
posted by honestcoyote at 7:12 PM on November 13, 2016 [34 favorites]

Here's another fun thought: We already know 2018 will be a bloodbath for Democrats in the Senate. Who's taking bets that, should the Republicans get a 2/3 majority they impeach and remove Ruth Bader Ginsburg for saying mean things about Trump?

By my reckoning, they shouldn't hit 60. Maybe 55.
posted by Talez at 7:13 PM on November 13, 2016

Our collective powers of prognostication aren't that good lately anyway. :/
posted by ian1977 at 7:18 PM on November 13, 2016 [20 favorites]

Have the Republicans ever gotten remotely close to 66 Senators in this century?

Those levels of party dominance have pretty much just happened twice in somewhat recent memory and Democrats have been the dominant party during those time periods. Around the New Deal coalition and the Great Society coalition.

Even during periods of relatively great strength for Republicans they've struggled to get anywhere close to 60 Senators.
posted by vuron at 7:19 PM on November 13, 2016 [2 favorites]

Man, I just keep looking at this map of state legislatures after the election and getting angry.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 7:21 PM on November 13, 2016 [4 favorites]

the keynesian party is just going to get rolling then

I remember joking back when Obama first got elected that one of the key differences between an Obama and McCain administration is that McCain's stimulus program would have been bigger and had full support of Congress.

Anybody else read this column in the NY Times by Ross Douthat? I recommend it.

Imagines Trump's first term being successful enough to get him easily re-elected. Of course, he gets there by breaking key campaign promises (stimulus program, soaring deficits, keeping Obamacare around). How else could he succeed? Chilling but plausible.

I like to think it won't happen. I want to believe that the deficit scolds in Congress will only let Trump have his tax cuts and a little extra military spending and that Trump's not Caesar enough to out-maneuver the Cato Institute and... well, then, when I start to imagine the ways Trump will fail, I end up thinking of that scene in The Big Short when Brad Pitt snaps at his two buddies in Vegas for celebrating the great deals they just made shorting the American economy and all the suffering that will entail.

I hope Trump's popularity quickly ends up on the rocks kinda like Schwarzenegger's did here in California as he lets the cronies he's rounding up for his staff drive him hard to the right, alienating casual suburban voters who thought they were just tuning in for a bit of reality television and minor tax breaks, before turning his hardcore alt-right base against him as he tries to tack back toward the center. This all assumes his survival instincts are sufficient to keep armageddon at bay.

Still, to root against Trump now is basically to root against the American economy, because that's probably where his fate lies. I don't want to cheer on the suffering of others (maybe even myself, though it does again say something about privilege that I see myself effectively a spectator). But I do want to make sure people are keeping score. And I want to convince them to vote in 2018.
posted by bunbury at 7:21 PM on November 13, 2016 [3 favorites]

Brownback's push to pack the Kansas courts also failed on election day.

Thank you, I had been meaning to follow what happened with this and lost track after the, ya know, apocolypse. A glimmer of good news.
posted by sallybrown at 7:22 PM on November 13, 2016 [1 favorite]

A moment of levity, or maybe hope, from nearly 10 years ago: Clowns Kicked KKK Asses

“White Power!” the Nazi’s tried once again in a doomed and somewhat funny attempt to clarify their message, “ohhhhhh!” the clowns yelled “Tight Shower!” and held a solar shower in the air and all tried to crowd under to get clean as per the Klan’s directions.

They hate being mocked. They want to be taken seriously, to be the threat we all fear. We need to keep pointing out that they're acting like spoiled little boys throwing temper tantrums, even as we take whatever actions we can to protect the vulnerable among us.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 7:23 PM on November 13, 2016 [28 favorites]

I'm so tired of comments that are just "hey here's a shitty thing I just imagined"

Me too. There's enough real nightmare fuel happening that needs to be dealt with and faught against. The "what if " shit is just needlessly agitating.
posted by _Mona_ at 7:24 PM on November 13, 2016 [15 favorites]

@HeerJeet:
Now in storify form, my twitter essay on why opposition should pick a fight with Trump over medicare:
https://storify.com/1nformalis/how-to-pick-a-fight-with-the-gop
posted by chris24 at 7:25 PM on November 13, 2016 [11 favorites]

WaPo: “Bannon is going to be keeper of the image of Trump as a fighter against the status quo, and Reince is going to utilize his personal connections with the speaker and others, to make the trains run on time,” said Ken Blackwell, a former Ohio state official and a member of the Trump transition team.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 7:32 PM on November 13, 2016 [41 favorites]

Dissecting a Trump Presidency
Betsy Reed, Jeremy Scahill, Glenn Greenwald podcast & transcript
posted by Golem XIV at 7:33 PM on November 13, 2016 [3 favorites]

Maybe add Eric Garcetti for 2020 if he isn't elected Governor of California.

or him! the point being mostly that the stable of future candidates seems pretty okay.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:35 PM on November 13, 2016

We already know 2018 will be a bloodbath for Democrats in the Senate.

We don't know anything like that! We know it would have been a bloodbath if Clinton were elected. We don't know that it will be a bloodbath with Trump in office. I would say quite the opposite, actually.
posted by corb at 7:35 PM on November 13, 2016 [24 favorites]

Trump will help but the best the Democrats can do in 2018 is minimize losses. The conditions you'd need for D gains would be please don't talk about it bad.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:38 PM on November 13, 2016

Harry Reid spitting bullets still.

@mkraju:
Reid spox: Trump selection of Bannon "signals that White Supremacists will be represented at the highest levels in Trump's White House."
posted by chris24 at 7:38 PM on November 13, 2016 [17 favorites]

Dissecting a Trump Presidency
Betsy Reed, Jeremy Scahill, Glenn Greenwald podcast & transcript

Those guys want to destroy America, right? So they're all elated?
posted by grobstein at 7:39 PM on November 13, 2016 [2 favorites]

Literally a fucking middle finger from the baby boomers to everyone else in the country.

Could we please not with the baby boomers? I am a baby boomer & there are others here too and I stand to be as fucked by this as anyone with the added bonus of having paid into it my whole work life. Plus this is Ryan, boomers didn't do this to give you a middle finder. Not a single one of my boomer-aged friends supported Trump and any one of them with kids would cut off their middle finger to give it to their kids.
posted by madamjujujive at 7:40 PM on November 13, 2016 [33 favorites]

We're already seeing something very similar playing out in Kansas.

I've been thinking a lot about Kansas today. Democrats and moderate Republicans looking towards the next couple elections really need to look long and hard at the kind of messaging used to highlight Brownback's failings and help to hopefully walk the state back from the edge, and work on getting that message out nationwide when Trump's promised economy doesn't appear. Something like a national version of the Save Kansas Coalition might be a very effective thing for the NeverTrumpers to pursue, a vision of a better conservatism that offers clear goals and solutions.
posted by jason_steakums at 7:42 PM on November 13, 2016 [10 favorites]

That's the problem with labeling a generation and not having a hard line on when that generation starts and ends. All the Baby boomers I know, personally are already retired and several years on Medicare.
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 7:45 PM on November 13, 2016 [1 favorite]

Think of if Pantsuit Nation divided among the 33 midterm Senate races. Over 3.5 million Pantsuiters. That's 100,000 people working to give to and volunteer for each Democratic candidate. Obviously that's fantasy, but if we spend the next two years organizing, we could be incredibly powerful.
posted by sallybrown at 7:48 PM on November 13, 2016 [9 favorites]

In which a WaPo reporter describes "using anti-immigrant language" as a he said/she said situation and responds "you're an idiot" when called out on it.
posted by zachlipton at 7:49 PM on November 13, 2016 [4 favorites]

Donald Trump is at the older range of the "Baby Boomer" generation (whose fathers came home from WWII and started impregnating their wives)... to be a full generation, it would be those 51-71 years of age.
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:52 PM on November 13, 2016 [2 favorites]

I keep coming back to the darkly humorous idea that this collection of egomaniacal assclowns will utterly fail to replicate the efficiency and discipline of Nazi Germany (however much they embrace or are ok with their principles) and so their incompetence creates opportunities for hope.

This is not much to reassure me, but after this week, I will cling to what I can.
posted by emjaybee at 7:54 PM on November 13, 2016 [3 favorites]

it would be those 51-71 years of age

See I thought it ended a year after my youngest uncle was born. He's on Medicare these days.
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 7:56 PM on November 13, 2016

Conditions for D gains, huh. Like...improving our messaging? Being scrappier than our opponents? Effectively reaching out without anyone feeling like we're talking down to them?

Senate gains in 2018 would require more than that. All those and a 1932 scale depression maybe.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:56 PM on November 13, 2016

2016 is just a repeat of 1922 now isn't it?
posted by Talez at 7:59 PM on November 13, 2016 [1 favorite]

As we enter the holiday season, consider looking up your relatives' political donations. If you have relatives who supported Trump or the RNC, don't let them forget it. Let's make Thanksgiving dinner uncomfortable for them for once. And if they express regret or remorse for Trump, challenge them to donate at least as much to the ACLU, Planned Parenthood, etc.
posted by jedicus at 8:00 PM on November 13, 2016 [5 favorites]

egomaniacal assclowns will utterly fail to replicate the efficiency and discipline of Nazi Germany

Nazi Germany was neither efficient nor disciplined; in fact, it was rife with cronyism, overlapping and uncertain spheres of authority, etc. There would often be 2 or 3 different agencies (some party, some governmental, others sui generis) charged with ostensibly doing the same task. Hitler would then choose between those who sucked up the most or who did the most "Nazi" (=radical/outlandish) job of it. This drastically cut down checks on radicalization.
posted by dhens at 8:01 PM on November 13, 2016 [33 favorites]

"this collection of egomaniacal assclowns will utterly fail to replicate the efficiency and discipline of Nazi Germany"

I'm sorry to tell you that Nazi Germany was marked by gross inefficiency as Hitler and the Nazi party, perhaps deliberately, set up competing agencies and personal fiefdoms that conflicted and fought. The actual German military might have been efficient and ordentlich but government was not. Its lack of predictability was actually yet another source of problems for its unfortunate citizens.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 8:01 PM on November 13, 2016 [33 favorites]

The problem as I've always understood it, is not that the boomers per se were good or bad, but that the years after the boom, saw such a drop in birth rates that anything that depended on a large population to sustain it was going to not work.
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 8:01 PM on November 13, 2016

snap, dhens.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 8:02 PM on November 13, 2016 [2 favorites]

The Republicans control as much as they did after the 1928 election... and you know what happened in 1929 (I don't like seeing it called "a 1932 scale depression" - it started before then)
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:02 PM on November 13, 2016

Bannon looks to want to team up with Le Pen.

I think I need to go throw up now.
posted by Talez at 8:06 PM on November 13, 2016 [3 favorites]

2016 is just a repeat of 1922 now isn't it?

In more ways than one. (Inequality for All)
The Graphics package (.pdf)

Boehner surrendering the house was enormous. The old boy network essentially walked away in 2008 because the contraction was historic (literally ;) This is old news to anyone deep into 1% documentation, but it bears repeating.

For a time, the executive office matters little to capital.
posted by lazycomputerkids at 8:11 PM on November 13, 2016

The Republicans control as much as they did after the 1928 election...

Just to note because I've seen the related meme wandering around the nets: the last time the Republicans controlled House, Senate, and Presidency was January 2007, not 1928.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:13 PM on November 13, 2016 [7 favorites]

have relatives who supported Trump or the RNC, don't let them forget

Before you assume anything about these donations, let me tell you these are not always indicative. Most #NeverTrumpers show significant donations to the Party this year, as well - because attending the caucuses and trying to snipe Trump at various levels cost money, and in an attempt to pump up their numbers, they report those as straight "donations". When I check myself, for example, it says I "donated" a few grand to the RNC, while it's more like "even as an elected delegate, they wouldn't let me in unless I paid."
posted by corb at 8:14 PM on November 13, 2016 [18 favorites]

I also don't think most of us think that she would be able to spot a dogwhistle the way someone raised religious all their life might be.

Possibly not. My assumption is that she could, if it mattered to her, because I think she's got enough basic intelligence and education for it, but I doubt that it does matter to her much more than it matters to her husband. I think she has no group loyalty to any group but Trumps. She made some feeble gestures towards making her dad less offensive to women during the campaign, so she is fully aware of his offenses, but she's on his team and she's as culpable for supporting his bigotry as any other Trump voter.

but she's still Jewish. And I'm not, even though my dad was and all the blood relatives I care to speak to are, and even though I was brought up celebrating the major holidays and thinking of myself as 'half Jewish' until I was old enough to realize that wasn't actually a thing. it bugs me, but that's how it works and it's real.

I think what bothers me most is the idea that having a close Jewish relative, either daughter or son-in-law, would matter to Trump even though we already know that having a close female relative means less than nothing to him. We already know he doesn't make those connections, he doesn't think those thoughts, he doesn't extend that kind of human recognition to groups he despises. We already know how he changes when he has a close connection to someone with membership in a reviled group, which is not at all. he does not have the intellectual capacity for cognitive dissonance so it does not trouble him enough to need to reconcile it. he is like that about women; he is like that about Jews. It is a lesson that should have been well learned by everybody already.

I am also edgy because the sudden prevalence of white rose imagery amongst earnest secret Facebookers and other well-meaning liberal types and I have the profoundest of doubts that each and every one of them are willing to go to the guillotine for me, for the truth, or for anybody.
posted by queenofbithynia at 8:14 PM on November 13, 2016 [14 favorites]

In which a WaPo reporter describes "using anti-immigrant language" as a he said/she said situation and responds "you're an idiot" when called out on it.

Wow. There's a nice rhetorical bait and switch there.

WaPo reporter: Throughout the campaign, Trump's critics regularly accused him of using anti-immigrant language and racial grievances to motivate his supporters, charges that he denied and dismissed.

Justin Elliott: Trump's using using anti-immigrant language has now become a charge that he denied [...] You're presenting a basic fact inaccurately as a he said she said.

WaPo reporter: The sentence is about the charges that he used racial grievances to intentionally incite white voters; he denies that. [my emphasis]

Yes, technically one must concede that Trump's motive for using racist terms is something that he alone can know for sure. But if you write "Bill Smith denied killing his neighbour in a fit of passion", you'd be omitting a crucial detail if you didn't mention that Smith admitted killing his neighbour and only objected to the implication that he was angry at the time.
posted by Joe in Australia at 8:17 PM on November 13, 2016 [20 favorites]

I did not intend to inaccurately reflect the history; 1928 was ANOTHER time, not the ONLY time.

Another historical tidbit (and correct me if I'm wrong), I don't know of any other despot/dictator who gained/seized power at such an advanced age as Trump (70) AND without any previous governmental experience. Just a factor working against him. Giuliani and Newt are both even older, Jeff Sessions almost as old. But Mike Pence is only 57, his pure white hair is just ... being Pure White.
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:17 PM on November 13, 2016 [1 favorite]

Before you assume anything about these donations, let me tell you these are not always indicative.

I suspect that's a minority of people who donated to the RNC, especially if the donations came after Trump became the nominee in July. But if they are a party-activist nevertrumper, then that's fair enough, and they can talk about how they're working to support anti-Trump Republicans elsewhere in government. I'm not suggesting launching straight into an accusatory tirade over turkey and stuffing.
posted by jedicus at 8:20 PM on November 13, 2016 [1 favorite]

The problem as I've always understood it, is not that the boomers per se were good or bad, but that the years after the boom, saw such a drop in birth rates that anything that depended on a large population to sustain it was going to not work.

*sigh* Sure, another thing to blame Generation X for....

(I'm kidding, I'm kidding.)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:22 PM on November 13, 2016 [5 favorites]

Welp, back to finding new dim hopes, it is then.
posted by emjaybee at 8:24 PM on November 13, 2016

Well, this made my jaw actually drop.

"Trump aides were described by those people as unaware that the entire presidential staff working in the West Wing had to be replaced at the end of Mr. Obama’s term.....After meeting with Mr. Trump, the only person to be elected president without having held a government or military position, Mr. Obama realized the Republican needs more guidance. He plans to spend more time with his successor than presidents typically do, people familiar with the matter said."

May God bless President Obama.
posted by mynameisluka at 8:25 PM on November 13, 2016 [112 favorites]

Giuliani and Newt are both even older,...

Google search (gingrich gettysburg trump speech)

The first 1/3 of that speech ignores social issues altogether. It's term limits and lobby regulation (and regulation regulation). It was Contract with America redux and effective.

Welp, back to finding new dim hopes, it is then.
Warren and Franken will provide so much because they're rational.
posted by lazycomputerkids at 8:28 PM on November 13, 2016 [1 favorite]

Next week will be full of "politics at the Thanksgiving table" stories. Some of them will be done as human interest "oh, but families get over it" puffery -- my local rag had one today -- but some of them will may actually engage with why the "racist uncle Joe" stereotype exists, and why many tables will have unset places.
posted by holgate at 8:29 PM on November 13, 2016 [1 favorite]

I feel like Obama is taking one for the team* to do the best he can to prevent a nuclear apocalypse or global economic collapse.

*people living on Earth
posted by sallybrown at 8:30 PM on November 13, 2016 [59 favorites]

Mod note: Trump aides were described by those people as unaware that the entire presidential staff working in the West Wing had to be replaced at the end of Mr. Obama’s term

"Yeah...they're all...totally going to stay. Definitely."
fake
Isn't it all fake now?
posted by kirkaracha (staff) at 8:33 PM on November 13, 2016 [1 favorite]

This has been said before but if you're male, no matter won you're married to, you're married to somebody from a group that Trump insulted and demeaned at some point.
posted by Joey Michaels at 8:38 PM on November 13, 2016 [11 favorites]

I can just see it, Trump waving dismissively, "All of these servants, they will be reporting to me of course. Make sure to tell the cook I like fried chicken and french fries."

"Umm... I think we should meet again, Donald."
posted by Meatbomb at 8:39 PM on November 13, 2016 [10 favorites]

Mr. Obama realized the Republican needs more guidance. He plans to spend more time with his successor than presidents typically do, people familiar with the matter said.

(Man, I thought I was done weeping.) Of course, this is assuming that Trump wishes to participate.
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:40 PM on November 13, 2016 [2 favorites]

The more i think about that WSJ quote, the more I wonder what's going on with that. It clearly wasn't planted by the Trump people - Trump will be angry to be described as Obama's pupil. If the Obama folks planted it, they would have known it would make Trump angry, thus frustrating their purpose...
posted by sallybrown at 8:41 PM on November 13, 2016 [3 favorites]

This picture of the current WH staff listening to news of Clinton's concession is still giving me life. Those expressions say what we are all thinking.
posted by emjaybee at 8:43 PM on November 13, 2016 [4 favorites]

HBO posted tonight's episode of Last Week Tonight with John Oliver early (Youtube). It's all about the President-Elect, the effects of his taking office, and a call to stand up for one another and support people now under threat and the organizations that support them. He provides a few prominent examples & URLs. It's the last episode for the season, and the show returns in February.
posted by ZeusHumms at 8:45 PM on November 13, 2016 [11 favorites]

I don't think I can live without Last Week Tonight for the next few months.
posted by zachlipton at 8:47 PM on November 13, 2016 [10 favorites]

Before you assume anything about these donations, let me tell you these are not always indicative.

That's nice but now I know my in-laws gave $1000 directly to this asshole who literally believes that I am "worthy of death" for sleeping with women and now I have to ask my husband to call his parents and tell them this is not okay while I stare at the ceiling and scream wordlessly for the next four years.
posted by deludingmyself at 8:53 PM on November 13, 2016 [11 favorites]

I am also edgy because the sudden prevalence of white rose imagery amongst earnest secret Facebookers and other well-meaning liberal types and I have the profoundest of doubts that each and every one of them are willing to go to the guillotine for me, for the truth, or for anybody.

I keep thinking: maybe I should have been a louder Clinton supporter prior to the election. Maybe I should have shouted down the Bernie bros instead of remaining quiet; maybe I should have left Clinton signs around regardless of the danger.

I'm already annoyed, because the third-party voters I know are claiming they didn't single-handedly hand the victory to Trump, while I'm racking my brains trying to think of ways I could have done more.

I feel like safety pins and white rose are about three weeks too late.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 8:54 PM on November 13, 2016 [1 favorite]

Mr. Obama realized the Republican needs more guidance. He plans to spend more time with his successor than presidents typically do, people familiar with the matter said.

If anyone was still wondering why Obama was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize when he hadn't done anything yet…
posted by morspin at 8:59 PM on November 13, 2016 [54 favorites]

>Mr. Obama realized the Republican needs more guidance.

FFS. Trump is just the face of a 10,000,000 person strong group of people that is The Right.
Sure, they can't govern for crap, but that's intentional.

Any hand-holding to be done, they have somebody to do it.

Obama was the junior senator from Illinois in 2008, the people he trusted were a mixed bag.

[the thought did strike me this weekend that it would have been strategically better to have Clinton win in 2008, saving Obama for 2016, sigh]
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 9:04 PM on November 13, 2016 [4 favorites]

the sudden prevalence of white rose imagery amongst earnest secret Facebookers and other well-meaning liberal types

The White Rose, as in, the super-intellectual, totally-ineffective Nazi resistance student org? Well that...fits.
posted by corb at 9:05 PM on November 13, 2016 [10 favorites]

the third-party voters I know are claiming they didn't single-handedly hand the victory to Trump

the analogy came to me this week that our elections are like tug-of-war contests, if you're not pulling against the GOP, you're not helping.

The Green/Libertarian voters were like orthogonal directions to the D/R fight.

These third-party voters can say, 'look at us, you didn't have us this time so you lost, so think about what you can do to get us on your team.'

Ds can say there were millions more people standing around not voting at all, and of course all the people on the (R) side of the rope to get back on our side.
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 9:07 PM on November 13, 2016 [2 favorites]

The White Rose, as in, the super-intellectual, totally-ineffective Nazi resistance student org? Well that...fits.

It made me think about how completely barren my public-school education was of any actual exploration of resistance as a concept. It almost seems like no wonder people can't come up with any good symbols of rebellion, because honestly, even when we talked about the Revolutionary War, it seemed like it was always a version that was sanitized of anything that was particularly subversive. We seem to have covered symbolic but largely useless stuff far more than we covered things that actually made a difference.
posted by Sequence at 9:14 PM on November 13, 2016 [9 favorites]

The White Rose, as in, the super-intellectual, totally-ineffective Nazi resistance student org? Well that...fits.

several of them did die bravely though! and anybody hearkening back to them in the present day is declaring their willingness to fight, however (in)effectually, to the very point of death. and I don't even know that they don't mean it, but I kind of feel like this iconography is serious business and they need to know for sure if they mean it or not.

People like to smugly say that nobody knows what they would have done in a situation like Nazi Germany and anybody could be just the absolute worst, given the opportunity, be they never so liberal and in never so many super secret facebook groups . but the thing is you can know what you would do, you just have to think it all through and decide first, in a moment of calmness, and then stick to it later so that you don't have to have your decision point under pressure.

like me personally I am just painfully eager to join a Resistance that will lose me friends, absolutely prepared to lose clients, and 100 percent ready to go to jail but anything beyond that I really do have to think on a little more. and I have thought about this very thing for years.
posted by queenofbithynia at 9:15 PM on November 13, 2016 [7 favorites]

Great analogy, HMIII, esp. considering the muddy field included in your basic tug-of-war contest.
posted by furtive_jackanapes at 9:16 PM on November 13, 2016

Well in all fairness, the White Rose was both super intellectual and super ineffective, but also existed in a time where political speech such as theirs could be—and was—punished by execution. Much resistance in Nazi Germany was relatively ineffective and only made its way to small groups of people, but it was something. That said, we are not in that position yet so I hope we're able to do more than posture and actually act while we can.
posted by mynameisluka at 9:20 PM on November 13, 2016 [12 favorites]

Hard to say it was completely ineffective when we're sitting around talking about it in the next century, in another country, on these internet machine things.
posted by sallybrown at 9:21 PM on November 13, 2016 [13 favorites]

Jedicus, just FYI, I looked myself up on that donor info site and only a partial list of my contributions came up. None of my contributions to Hillary were there.
posted by Mayra in L.A. at 9:23 PM on November 13, 2016 [1 favorite]

“Bannon is going to be keeper of the image of Trump as a fighter against the status quo, and Reince is going to utilize his personal connections with the speaker and others, to make the trains run on time,” said Ken Blackwell, a former Ohio state official and a member of the Trump transition team.

In their ongoing effort to normalize Trump, the media will report this as "Donald Trump's America to have two or more trains."
posted by tonycpsu at 9:27 PM on November 13, 2016 [3 favorites]

For the dude blaming Metafilter, I want to mention that I'm sure he's right that there are a significant number of Trump voters who are not explicitly racist. I'm going to argue that they are still racist even if they had no over racist intentions.

To whit, Trump made explicit racism and mysogyny part of his campaign. I don't think at this point I need to point out examples but if you've not been following that, I can show you some.

Trump voters heard this and either agreed with it or thought "this racism doesn't matter to me because this other thing is more important." To the latter group, the well being - indeed, the lives - of people who are impacted by institutional (and overt) racism are less important than other issues.

In other words, those lives don't matter (as much) to them.

This could, with justification, lead a group of people to need to remind them that, yes, their lives do matter.

By voting for an overt racist and misogynist, they are voting to support a continuation of the oppression of those groups of people. I'm not seeing a whole lot of hope for positive gains for opposed Americans under the this man's leadership. I've not even seen many specific and consistent plans on any subject, but that's outside the scope of this comment.

Anyhow, man who blames Metafilter, you're a Christian and I'm sure you believe in loving your neighbor. I believe in this concept passionately. I think voting for a person whose words and actions and stated policy goals treat our neighbors with disrespect and cause them harm is a poor way of demonstrating love for one's neighbors. Perhaps you can explain how Trump, through his words and actions, is actually going to lift everyone up. I see no evidence that suggests this is even a remote possibility.
posted by Joey Michaels at 9:27 PM on November 13, 2016 [45 favorites]

Trump et al. will try to manufacture a war/threat in around 2 years to repeat Bush Jr.'s re-election success. It took the Bush voters 6 years to finally turn on him after it was evident to anyone paying attention that his administration was a disaster; I really hope we don't have to wait that long now. Giuliani is probably praying for another terrorist attack now, or plotting to manufacture one.
posted by benzenedream at 9:35 PM on November 13, 2016 [3 favorites]

He doesn't need to manufacture a war. We're currently in Yemen.
posted by I-baLL at 9:41 PM on November 13, 2016

because the third-party voters I know are claiming they didn't single-handedly hand the victory to Trump

They didn't, unless a bunch more votes showed up (not snark, actual disclaimer). There weren't enough Stein votes to swing it for Clinton, AFAIK.

And while there were enough Johnson votes, I expect they were mostly real-life libertarians or nevertrumpers. Switching from D to L would be... Puzzling behavior. I don't doubt that it happened, but those are the sorts of low constraint voters whose votes are basically random anyhow.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:44 PM on November 13, 2016 [10 favorites]

Daughter & I were commiserating/brainstorming, and pondering how unhappy and unprepared the pres-elect seems to be. We were thinking he's gotta be looking for a way out that still appeases his ego. And I thought, what about appealing to his greed?

Can we get Warren Buffett to offer him a billion dollars to step down and not take the job - before the electoral college votes? He could then declare, ha ha, I got mine - I won, I got paid, and I didn't have to do any of the actual work; that's good business.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 9:46 PM on November 13, 2016 [3 favorites]

Even if you don't usually watch John Oliver you can skip to 23:18 for a truly cathartic 2016 blowout. like, I didn't realize how much I needed that
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 9:47 PM on November 13, 2016 [21 favorites]

"Can we get Warren Buffett to offer him a billion dollars to step down and not take the job - before the electoral college votes?"

Why? Do you think that Pence will be better?
posted by I-baLL at 9:49 PM on November 13, 2016 [4 favorites]

Can we get Warren Buffett to offer him a billion dollars to step down and not take the job - before the electoral college votes? He could then declare, ha ha, I got mine - I won, I got paid, and I didn't have to do any of the actual work; that's good business.

Then we've got Mike fucking "convert your gay sons and daughters and fetuses need funerals" Pence as president.

I don't know which is worse honestly.
posted by Talez at 9:49 PM on November 13, 2016 [1 favorite]

the last time the Republicans controlled House, Senate, and Presidency was January 2007

I dearly hope the Democratic party has developed a bit more spine since that era

Quite a bit
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:52 PM on November 13, 2016 [3 favorites]

Electoral college is not required to vote for Pence; they'd have a much clearer option to vote for Hillary.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 9:52 PM on November 13, 2016

I dearly hope the Democratic party has developed a bit more spine since that era

Four words: Freshman Senator Tammy Duckworth
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 9:54 PM on November 13, 2016 [16 favorites]

Oliver/Stewart/Colbert

Ya know...one generational marker I don't see discussed much is what portion of Americans prefer news programs that don't say fuck and those that do. Brokaw held together the Cronkite magog, but when Stewart and O'Reilly divvied up the ratings...

And while there were enough Johnson votes, I expect they were mostly real-life libertarians or nevertrumpers. Switching from D to L would be... Puzzling behavior. I don't doubt that it happened, but those are the sorts of low constraint voters whose votes are basically random anyhow.

That kinda talk...that kind of poll-based yak? Yeah. What people did/do in the privacy of a booth ain't what they say with just one other person in the room.
posted by lazycomputerkids at 9:55 PM on November 13, 2016

but the thing is you can know what you would do, you just have to think it all through and decide first, in a moment of calmness, and then stick to it later so that you don't have to have your decision point under pressure.

I've spent lots of time thinking about this sort of stuff too, and there are lots of plans that seem easy to make: for example if there's a Muslim registry, I will register as a Muslim, even though I've been an atheist of my own accord my whole life. But I don't have any kids and I don't think I could honestly say what I'd do, or even comprehensively plan out what I'd do, if I had kids and pressure was applied to me by threatening them.

Or, even if you concluded that a Thích Quảng Đức/Mohamed Bouazizi self-immolation protest would be effective and worthwhile, it seems difficult to me, coming from American culture where that is extremely uncommon, to be certain that I'd go through with it.
posted by XMLicious at 10:00 PM on November 13, 2016

So, when's Malik Obama getting a cabinet position?
posted by Apocryphon at 10:11 PM on November 13, 2016

mynameisluka: Well, this made my jaw actually drop.

WSJ: RNC Chair Reince Priebus Is Named Donald Trump’s Chief of Staff (Nov. 13, 2016) (open in incognito tab or search for that phrase normally and follow the search result link to WSJ.com)

You missed the line before your pullquote:

During their private White House meeting on Thursday, Mr. Obama walked his successor through the duties of running the country, and Mr. Trump seemed surprised by the scope, said people familiar with the meeting.

Remember, this was the meeting that had originally been scheduled for 10 minutes and went on for 90.

Which makes me think that Donald is like an armchair quarterback, who somehow gets the chance to take the place of a real QB and realizes he has no idea what it takes to do that job. He kicked ass in those Madden games, but on the field, he gets that deer in the headlights look, and soon he feels like the deer after the headlights have passed under him, due to a speeding truck launching his body into the air.

Or he's a pro at playing some Toby Keith on Rockband and doesn't see what's the fuss about the guy, and somehow manages to bluff his way into being an opening act for Toby, only to realize he doesn't really know how to play guitar.
posted by filthy light thief at 10:13 PM on November 13, 2016 [36 favorites]

A shot of joviality with Joe: Biden's plots to prank Donald [FAKE]

"I left a Kenyan passport in your desk, just to fuck with him"
"Joe"
"Oh and a prayer rug in your bedroom. He's gonna lose it!"
"Dammit Joe"

Biden: Hillary was saying they took the W's off the keyboards when Bush won!
Obama: Joe put-
Biden: I TOOK THE T'S, THEY CAN ONLY TYPE RUMP

posted by filthy light thief at 10:17 PM on November 13, 2016 [27 favorites]

and there are lots of plans that seem easy to make: for example if there's a Muslim registry, I will register as a Muslim

Before there is a Muslim registry, there would be public registries of non-citizens, an increased push for ID cards for all citizens, and attempts to remove the rights of citizenship from people found guilty of certain crimes.

As one Twitter thread pointed out, expect the Black Lives Matter movement to be declared a terrorist group. Expect Gitmo to be expanded, and for citizens suspected of "terrorism" to be sent there to await a trial that will never happen.

The time to fight back is before they start restricting normal, everyday, lawful activities - it's when they start unconstitutional crackdowns on groups that many would like to see stopped anyway. They'll start with the violent edge of protest groups, and hey, if they don't get fair quick trials, well, they were hurting both local businesses and The Movement, so who's going to speak out for them? They'll start with those who lash out at "deplorables," and if they vanish into new "isolation prisons" (let's not call them "camps;" of course we don't have "camps" for undesirables), well, they were committing some serious crimes; nevermind that people committing crimes the other direction don't seem to get the same treatment.

In short: they'll start by going after those we all agree are horrible criminals - and they'll take actions against them that we would never have allowed a few years ago, but many people will just say, "at least we're safer now." Then they'll tighten "security" and start restricting people's activities... curfews during "times of unrest," no protest groups larger than a couple dozen without a permit, no non-citizens in "sensitive" jobs, and many people will grumble but say, "at least we're safer now."

The time for the frog to jump out of the pot isn't when it reaches simmer; it's when the pilot light is turned on. Push back against encroachment on anyone's rights, starting NOW. Speak up if it's safe for you; when you see people being picked on for race or gender or orientation or lifestyle, call the bully "un-American." Say it loud and clear, whether you're speaking to the victim or the bully. Don't let them redefine our identity any more than they already have.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 10:22 PM on November 13, 2016 [80 favorites]

Remember, this was the meeting that had originally been scheduled for 10 minutes and went on for 90.

There are reports that Trump lied about this as one of the first things he said in the Oval Office. The reporters set to cover their joint appearance after the meeting weren't even told to assemble until 30 minutes after it started, which makes no sense if it was really a 10 minute meeting. It's possible someone told him it was only going to be a 10 minute meeting, but that was never true.
posted by zachlipton at 10:31 PM on November 13, 2016 [12 favorites]

Hard to say it was completely ineffective when we're sitting around talking about it in the next century, in another country, on these internet machine things.

The 12 million dead to genocide say it was ineffective.
posted by sideshow at 10:34 PM on November 13, 2016 [6 favorites]

Trump is that meme dog that doesn't know what it is doing
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 10:35 PM on November 13, 2016 [3 favorites]

Say it loud and clear, whether you're speaking to the victim or the bully.

And wrap it tightly in the American flag, because the worst have already ceded it to wave other flags that better express their sentiments.
posted by holgate at 10:38 PM on November 13, 2016 [3 favorites]

Remember, this was the meeting that had originally been scheduled for 10 minutes and went on for 90.

This was a total lie and he did it while sitting with Obama. I shouldn't be astounded any more but I was. He shapes his own reality.
posted by futz at 10:41 PM on November 13, 2016 [4 favorites]

filthy light thief: "You missed the line before your pullquote:

During their private White House meeting on Thursday, Mr. Obama walked his successor through the duties of running the country, and Mr. Trump seemed surprised by the scope, said people familiar with the meeting.

Remember, this was the meeting that had originally been scheduled for 10 minutes and went on for 90. "

I'm having Game Change flashbacks:

"A great relationship with the Queen..."

"Governor, do you know what the Fed is?"

"This is Germany..."
posted by Rhaomi at 10:46 PM on November 13, 2016 [1 favorite]

Infowars' Alex Jones says Trump called him personally to thank him for his election support.

So we have a crazy man claiming a serial liar called him, so who (besides the NSA) will ever know what really happened here?
posted by zachlipton at 10:47 PM on November 13, 2016 [8 favorites]

Sorry but this really pisses me off. There is no way that the meeting was scheduled for 15 minutes or less. It involved all of trumpeter's entourage and a tour of the WH. He lied so it made it look like he and Obama (two equals?) got along so well (which is very very odd) and had soooo much to talk about. He is fucking nuts. It's another lie that is easily debunked and the truth would have been fine but he had to lie anyway.
posted by futz at 10:49 PM on November 13, 2016 [21 favorites]

Before there is a Muslim registry, there would be public registries of non-citizens, an increased push for ID cards for all citizens, and attempts to remove the rights of citizenship from people found guilty of certain crimes.

I agree with all of your points about resistance, but just for the record wanted to say that I don't even think there will ever actually be a Muslim registry, unless publicity about such a thing were to eventually serve some propaganda purpose, because commercial Big Data can probably tell them all of that stuff without even assistance from the surveillance state. In that respect, the pot has already been at a rolling boil for some time now.
posted by XMLicious at 10:51 PM on November 13, 2016 [10 favorites]

I don't even think there will ever actually be a Muslim registry, unless publicity about such a thing were to eventually serve some propaganda purpose, because commercial Big Data can probably tell them all of that stuff

They'd need a registry because they need public participation - if they just hand out Muslim ID Cards to the Muslims they have on file, they'll botch enough of them that the public will reject it. So instead they'd send out "Muslim registration cards" to everyone identified as Muslim, and also have a tv-based drive to register those not caught by big data (small percentage; visible number).

Restricting Muslim activities like air travel and driving in some neighborhoods and property purchases would be done quietly with big data support, without formally stating that "Muslim" is the reason so that it's hard for them to drum up support. But to start creating "Muslim neighborhoods" they'd need the propaganda push.

(Gods this is bleak thinking. I can't even tell if I'm trying to plan for actual possibilities or just spiraling down into dystopian fantasy.) (I don't need any reminders that those aren't mutually exclusive.)
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 11:00 PM on November 13, 2016 [2 favorites]

I can't even tell...

Yeah ya can.
posted by lazycomputerkids at 11:04 PM on November 13, 2016 [1 favorite]

@gabrielsherman: NYT: On election night, Breitbart’s Facebook page received the fourth-highest number of user interactions..beating Fox News, CNN and NYT
posted by Golden Eternity at 11:17 PM on November 13, 2016 [2 favorites]

That says more to me about Facebook than it does about Breitbart.

I say we take off and nuke the entire Facebook from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:22 PM on November 13, 2016 [17 favorites]

> a call to stand up for one another and support people now under threat and the organizations that support them

Hmm.

The summer before I started law school, 15 years ago, I read a little book by Karl Llewellyn called "The Bramble Bush." It's basically a "Law School for Dummies" type thing from 1930, full of somewhat outdated advice on how to ace your classes and impress your professors. But Llewellyn was a leading thinker of the school of thought known as "legal realism," and "The Bramble Bush" is also a major statement of that philosophy. In a famous passage, Llewellyn wrote:

This doing of something about disputes, this doing of it reasonably, is the business of the law. And the people who have the doing of it in charge, whether they be judges or sheriffs or clerks or jailers or lawyers, are officials of the law. What these officials do about disputes is, to my mind, the law itself.

He went on:

And rules, in all of this, are important to you so far as they help you see or predict what judges will do or so far as they help you to get judges to do something. That is their importance. That is all their importance, except as pretty playthings.

And then I went to law school. And I took the first-year course in Constitutional Law, and I learned about the fundamental principles that rule the United States. And I learned -- or at least was given the general impression -- that, while the country has not always lived up to those principles, in the long run, the Constitution has served as a wise guide and constraint on the power of our rulers, and the foundation of our system of government.

But in the back of my mind I thought about Llewellyn. I thought about the fact that those principles can't automatically enact themselves, that they only work if the human actors in the system choose to follow them and to demand that others follow them. They persist because the people constrained by them believe themselves to be constrained by them. The Constitution, separation of powers, religious liberty, freedom of the press, an independent judiciary, the rule of law, equality of all citizens: There is a complacent sense in America that these things are independent self-operative checks on power. But they aren't. They are checks on power only as far as they command the collective loyalty of those in power; they require a governing class that cares about law and government and American tradition, rather than personal power and revenge. Their magic is fragile, and can disappear if people who don't believe in it gain power.

posted by kliuless at 11:26 PM on November 13, 2016 [72 favorites]

A shot of joviality with Joe: Biden's plots to prank Donald [FAKE]

Der Spiegel has a bunch of them too (while the article is in German, it's mostly translating the jokes, which are in English.)

I keep desperately trying to laugh because the alternative is too awful.
posted by ubersturm at 11:30 PM on November 13, 2016 [2 favorites]

I see you are all going to be fine America. Reading the BBC this morning

A former naval officer, investment banker and Hollywood producer, Mr Bannon took over at Breitbart in 2012, when he promised to make it the "Huffington Post of the right".

That guys doesn't sound bad at all! (What is going on with the BBC, surely we can call these guys out for what they are across the Atlantic!)
posted by twistedonion at 11:55 PM on November 13, 2016 [5 favorites]

I posted in the other thread not realizing this was here. I'm extra crabby right now about the filter bubble and especially facebook. I was taking about it for weeks and shocked no one else was. They are now.

Along with the other problem. Fake news on Facebook. Some just made up as click bait.

This is how our election was decided.
posted by [insert clever name here] at 12:04 AM on November 14, 2016 [11 favorites]

@ Kliuless

Going back to when we were children, I think most of us in this courtroom thought justice came automatically. That virtue was its own reward. That good triumphs over evil. But as we get older we know this isn't true. Individual human beings have to create justice, and this is not easy because the truth often poses a threat to power and one often has to fight power at great risk to themselves.
-- Oliver Stone & Zachary Sklar, JFK, 1991
posted by lazycomputerkids at 12:05 AM on November 14, 2016 [7 favorites]

This is how our election was decided.

Same with Brexit. Shout anything into that echo chamber. the more absurd the lie the more effective.

They might not even need to burn books this time. No one reads anymore

.
posted by twistedonion at 12:22 AM on November 14, 2016 [11 favorites]

about the filter bubble and especially facebook. I was taking about it for weeks and shocked no one else was. They are now.

Along with the other problem. Fake news on Facebook. Some just made up as click bait.

This is how our election was decided.

so basically, Marshall McLuhan called it almost fifty years ago. "World War III is a guerrilla information war with no division between military and civilian participation."
posted by philip-random at 12:27 AM on November 14, 2016 [21 favorites]

Speaking of fake news, [insert clever name here], the URI of your first (NYT) link has "/2016/11/14/" in it—even though the byline says "November 12, 2016" and there's no explicitly-marked update—which successfully influenced me to load and read the article thinking there was fresh information in it. Don't hate the player, hate the game, I guess.
posted by XMLicious at 12:39 AM on November 14, 2016 [1 favorite]

> the URI of your first (NYT) link has "/2016/11/14/" in it—even though the byline says "November 12, 2016" and there's no explicitly-marked update

There is a simple explanation for that. The NYT URI scheme is based on when the article was published in their print edition. The footer of all of their articles should say what day it was printed, which should match the URI, what page number, which edition and what headline was used.
posted by papercrane at 12:54 AM on November 14, 2016 [4 favorites]

So yeah lots of competing factions and lots of them are going to have hurt feelings about how Trump isn't giving them what they want.

They'll have hurt feelings, but they won't blame Trump. He's very explicitly campaigned on a message of incorrectly attributed blame, and direct lies about his failures. I expect blame of Obama, flat denial of failures, and punitive firings to figure fairly prominently in the first 2 years.
posted by Jon Mitchell at 1:04 AM on November 14, 2016 [1 favorite]

Woman Who Voted For Flesh-Eating Virus Hopes It Decides Not To Eat Any Flesh
posted by porn in the woods at 1:26 AM on November 14, 2016 [45 favorites]

Woman Who Voted For Flesh-Eating Virus Hopes It Decides Not To Eat Any Flesh
posted by porn in the woods at 4:26 AM on November 14 [2 favorites +] [!]

The schadenfreude would be exquisite were it not for the many others fucked over by people voting like this.
posted by dazed_one at 1:33 AM on November 14, 2016 [8 favorites]

The pub was silent for a moment longer, and then, embarrassingly enough, the man with the raucous laugh did it again. The girl he had dragged along to the pub with him had grown to loathe him dearly over the last hour or so, and it would probably have been a great satisfaction to her to know that in a minute and a half or so he would suddenly evaporate into a whiff of hydrogen, ozone and carbon monoxide. However, when the moment came she would be too busy evaporating herself to notice it.

This bit from Hitchhiker's Guide comes to mind when having schadenfreude about Trump voters. Sums up my feelings.
posted by honestcoyote at 2:01 AM on November 14, 2016 [12 favorites]

Before this meeting both had insulted each other extensively.

That was the news article that made me stop paying money to the BBC. I'm going to substitute some of that £140 a year in spending on media that's reliably free of the balance fallacy. Probably a mix of The Economist and The Guardian.
posted by ambrosen at 2:10 AM on November 14, 2016 [2 favorites]

Ambrosen: I'm seeking to do the same. The Guardian wears its bias very clearly on its sleeve though.
posted by wingless_angel at 2:18 AM on November 14, 2016

The Guardian wears its bias very clearly on its sleeve though.

Bias and good reporting are quite compatible. What you have to watch out for are the organizations that pretend they have ascended to a higher plane of objectivity, free from the distracting inconveniences of human bodies and frailty and particularity. No good journalistic edifice can ever be built over that foundation of self-deception.
posted by tivalasvegas at 2:51 AM on November 14, 2016 [22 favorites]

Anyone have a go to link detailing why Bannon is a white supremacist/ neo-nazi?
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 3:17 AM on November 14, 2016 [2 favorites]

In normalization news, NPR posts L vs R economist interview with wingnut who's been been published in Brietbart.
posted by klarck at 3:20 AM on November 14, 2016 [4 favorites]

Oh, but hey guys, he's "drawn sharp rebuke" for his choice of strategist, so I'm sure we'll be okay. He responds really thoughtfully to criticism, as we all know.

Bannon will assume a similar role to that of Karl Rove during George W. Bush’s administration and recently by longtime strategist John Podesta under President Obama. He and Republican National Committee Chairman Reince Priebus, who will become White House chief of staff, will be among Trump's top advisers.

I mean, it's not like Karl Rove did any actual damage, right?
Sob.
posted by Superplin at 4:16 AM on November 14, 2016 [3 favorites]

Misantropic Painforest - I found an article from the most mainstream source I could find, NBC News: Analysis: Breitbart's Steve Bannon Leads the 'Alt Right' to the White House

As president of Breitbart News, he made his views clear.
posted by maggiemaggie at 4:46 AM on November 14, 2016 [4 favorites]

They (Greens) didn't, unless a bunch more votes showed up (not snark, actual disclaimer). There weren't enough Stein votes to swing it for Clinton, AFAIK.

I'm aware of this.

I'm just stunned at how many people I used to be friends with are the type of people who would stand back and insist they alone didn't light the world on fire, rather than desperately wondering what they could have done to stop it. (I suspect their rhetoric alone reached ten times as many people as those who voted for Stein. God knows, a few holier-than-thous were the reason I wasn't verbal about my support for Clinton.)

"Used to be," is, of course, the key word here. It's not the Republicans in my extended family that I am planning on not speaking to this Christmas.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 5:22 AM on November 14, 2016 [9 favorites]

Hard to say it was completely ineffective when we're sitting around talking about it in the next century,

We're really good at romanticizing failed and flawed movements. See the enormous amount of paper and film devoted to the Scottish rebellion for Bonnie Prince Charlie. But it'd be really nice if we chose to take our inspiration not from failed movements but successful ones.

"Rhaegar fought valiantly. Rhaegar fought nobly. Rhaegar fought honorably. And Rhaegar died."
posted by corb at 5:24 AM on November 14, 2016 [8 favorites]

Anyone have a go to link detailing why Bannon is a white supremacist/ neo-nazi?

Why? I have no idea why.

Be that as it may, since Bannon took over Breitbart News and that website has become what it has become -- a safe haven for, among others, white supremacists/neo nazis -- he appears to have passed the Duck Test.

How Donald Trump's New Campaign Chief Created an Online Haven for White Nationalists
posted by Mister Bijou at 5:32 AM on November 14, 2016 [5 favorites]

Then we've got Mike fucking "convert your gay sons and daughters and fetuses need funerals" Pence as president.

I don't know which is worse honestly.

Pence is going to be running policy anyway. We're probably better off with him as actual instead of de facto President if that means Trump isn't starting WWIII because Justin Trudeau make a snide remark about him.
posted by Pope Guilty at 5:54 AM on November 14, 2016 [10 favorites]

hey, why settle for one when you can have both? Pence turning the U.S. into The Handmaid's Tale while Trump casually lobs some nukes?
posted by angrycat at 5:55 AM on November 14, 2016 [3 favorites]

I was unfamiliar with the White Rose movement until its mention here, so I may have not gotten a comprehensive understanding in the bit of reading I've done, but I feel compelled to note that for anyone who doesn't believe in the supernatural bits, the entirety of Christianity would appear to be the veneration and romanticizing of an unsuccessful campaign of defiance against oppression.

An entirely admirable campaign, as far as I'm concerned; my point being that taking inspiration from such movements and acts is probably so inextirpably embedded in Western culture that there will be no getting rid of the habit.
posted by XMLicious at 5:56 AM on November 14, 2016 [1 favorite]

In normalization news, NPR posts L vs R economist interview with wingnut who's been been published in Brietbart.

I listened to this while getting ready for work today. Appalling. The Trump-favoring economist trotted out the "well, people say a lot of stuff during elections ..." canard over and over with no challenge from the interviewer. The press and everyone else get so pearl-clutchy about broken campaign promises on the Dem side if it's as much as a gradual evolution of views. But if Dumper says "I promise X" and then the next day "I will never do X" it's somehow excusable. Let me lay some truth down:

* people who will do whatever it takes to win are the worst of all people
* "speaks his mind" doesn't mean "makes random conflicting/nonsensical statements at all times" - it means making a plain-spoken, thoughtful and principled stand for something of importance
posted by freecellwizard at 6:07 AM on November 14, 2016 [8 favorites]

Does anyone have any idea what happens if Trump ends up not eligible before either the electoral college meeting or the inauguration? He's old, he's not in the best of health, he's under investigation for serious charges including ties to foreign enemies which seem like they'd be disqualifying, and he doesn't actually want the job anyways as far as anyone can tell. Does it all fall to Pence, or free agency on the part of the EC, or what?
posted by jackbishop at 6:10 AM on November 14, 2016 [2 favorites]

I think his electors would probably be freed, for all practical purposes. Presumably most of them would switch to Pence. Maybe some of them would be persuaded to vote for some other Republican.
posted by tivalasvegas at 6:14 AM on November 14, 2016

I'm currently attending my company's annual international meeting of country management. Last night, we had an informal group dinner and as is kind of our tradition, business leaders stand when the spirit moves them and give the light- hearted off-the-record version of their business update. There's no requirement to do so, but many do and as the wine bottles get emptied they tend to get funnier and more affectionate.

Last night, close to the end of the evening, the country manager for Turkey stood up. To everyone's horror, instead of a business update, he launched into a long apology/explanation regarding politics in Turkey. After what felt like a forever of frozen embarrassment, he finally finished by assuring us that all the arrests of journalists and opposition party members were necessary to clean the country of the taint of CIA and foreign extremist influence. He really wanted to assure us that now that this necessary steps had been taken, everything should be good again.

My company is roughly as left-leaning as a big company gets, so he sat down to silence and the evening soon afterwards broke up.

As we were leaving, I thought My God, this will be the US team in 3 years. This will be us, If we can talk at all. My thought must have shown on my face, because a colleague from Taiwan patted my arm. "I'm so sorry," he said, "I hope you know we're all praying for you."
posted by frumiousb at 6:16 AM on November 14, 2016 [100 favorites]

In the very unlikely event Trump were to resign the nomination ahead of the Electoral College, the RNC would be entitled to make a new nomination in his place, to whom Elector pledges would transfer (at least according the rules).

I wouldn't see the RNC having any option other than nominating Pence for President and Pence's choice for VP. The risk of rogue Electors, or those who construe a state law obligation or moral obligation to vote for Trump despite his resignation, is obviously higher -- but 25 would have to defect not for the RNC's new choice to be elected outright, and even then it just goes to the House of Representatives and Senate where the Republicans control the necessary majorities to elect the RNC's choices anyway. Pence is much more popular than Donald Trump among the Republican establishment types who make up the Electors and Congressional caucuses, so it would be a done deal even if there were quite a few dissents.
posted by MattD at 6:27 AM on November 14, 2016

he's under investigation for serious charges including ties to foreign enemies which seem like they'd be disqualifying

First, good luck getting anything out of the FBI. Second, I am completely flummoxed that people are still coddling him by entertaining the idea of pushing his existing court dates back beyond inauguration because he's "too overwhelmed."
posted by C'est la D.C. at 6:28 AM on November 14, 2016 [1 favorite]

...including ties to foreign enemies...

PC or Mac?
-- Joel & Ethan Coen, Burn After Reading, 2008
posted by lazycomputerkids at 6:36 AM on November 14, 2016 [3 favorites]

From way upthread: 2018 will be a difficult year for Democrats.

Sure. Democrats might not be able to take back the Senate or the House. But mid-term elections traditionally go against the President's party, and I have no doubt that two years of Republican policies will prove unpopular with voters.

On top of that, look at the success of the so-called Tea Party. They were nothing but rebranded conservative Republicans who wanted to disassociate themselves with the miserable failure of George W. Bush, but they were incredibly successful in that rebranding, and convinced the media that they represented a genuine grassroots movement. Democrats, by contrast, have eight years of much better policies under Barack Obama to be proud of, and no one need apologize for standing against Serious, Honest Conservative Paul Ryan's longstanding ambition to dismantle the New Deal.

Democrats might not take back Congress in 2018, but there will be plenty of elections they can win, and it will create a narrative that many Real Americans oppose Trump. Republicans' actual policies are not popular. In two years, I expect the American people will be ready to hear that message.
posted by Gelatin at 6:44 AM on November 14, 2016 [7 favorites]

I wonder what the CIA is going through right now, I mean with Trump's friendliness with Putin, both the agenda of the agency and the names of their operatives now might feel a lot less secure, so...?
posted by gusottertrout at 6:46 AM on November 14, 2016 [1 favorite]

If there's one thing we need to learn from the current situation, it is that there is a faction in this country who will take any excuse to start rioting, looting and pillaging, and if law and order are lenient they will run amok over decent society.

This faction is known as Congressional Republicans.
posted by delfin at 6:53 AM on November 14, 2016 [5 favorites]

Fearing Trump, two legislators press for update of state abortion law: “With the upcoming Trump Presidency and conservative U.S. Supreme Court, the need for New York to take real steps to guarantee women's rights has never been more pressing,” said Stewart-Cousins, the Senate minority leader.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:56 AM on November 14, 2016 [15 favorites]

The New Yorker: Aftermath. 16 Writers on Trump's America. Essays include Toni Morrison, Atul Gawande, Hilary Mantel, George Packer, Jane Mayer, Jeffrey Toobin and Junot Díaz.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:58 AM on November 14, 2016 [12 favorites]

What I'm finding troubling is how quickly so many people who were really loud about "they're both awful" and "struggling to vote for the one I think is the lesser evil" and "holding my nose and voting for him" are now sounding actively happy about him being President.

I know that we saw this during the campaign - the more he stays out of the public eye, the more people forget all the reasons he's unpalatable. But I still thought I'd see more of a wait-and-see calm, and less of a gleeful "suck it up crybabies" narrative aimed at people who are upset.

The man was called dangerously unfit to be President by every major news organization and most US leaders - Democrat and Republican. This should be a sobering moment.

All the comments about how the electorate won't let Trump be too crazy? I don't think I buy it anymore. It's like there are no grownups left.
posted by Mchelly at 7:03 AM on November 14, 2016 [48 favorites]

On Obergefell and 60 Minutes, anything he says on the matter is not worth the air passing his lips until:

1. He uses his power as Chief Executive to protect the marriage rights of federal employees.
2. He puts his name on a veto of anti-marriage legislation coming from Congress.

Which is the minimum I expect of a President who considers Obergefell to be precedent.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 7:12 AM on November 14, 2016 [14 favorites]

What I'm finding troubling is how quickly so many people who were really loud about "they're both awful" and "struggling to vote for the one I think is the lesser evil" and "holding my nose and voting for him" are now sounding actively happy about him being President.

I'm actually not seeing very much of that, but it may be that people who know me know that I would punch them.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 7:13 AM on November 14, 2016 [1 favorite]

Kevin Drum points out that one thing Trump's campaign and Hillary Clinton agree on is that FBI Director James Comey cost her the election.

I will say again that I hope Obama fires him.
posted by Gelatin at 7:16 AM on November 14, 2016 [5 favorites]

And as I've been pointing out for a while, the marriage fight wasn't just about marriage, it was about discrimination. Conservatives have already pivoted their rationale for discrimination to religious liberty.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 7:17 AM on November 14, 2016 [3 favorites]

Oh I see thanks to Bannon my student has been writing why abortions are equivalent to genocide. Nice to know
posted by angrycat at 7:24 AM on November 14, 2016 [3 favorites]

I will say again that I hope Obama fires him.

Hope implies doubt. I'll say again: Comey has been considered for SCOTUS in the past. Firing him is a perfect storm for the leap.

What I'm finding troubling is how quickly so many people who were really loud about "they're both awful" and "struggling to vote for the one I think is the lesser evil" and "holding my nose and voting for him" are now sounding actively happy about him being President.

Secret ballots: No better audit of privately held convictions. Polling consultancy really should be dismissed as a legitimate career. Or at least incessantly mocked as religious evangelicals.
posted by lazycomputerkids at 7:26 AM on November 14, 2016 [1 favorite]

Comey has been considered for SCOTUS in the past. Firing him is a perfect storm for the leap.

Senate Democrats would have fun with those hearings.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 7:27 AM on November 14, 2016

Long term the idea that it's someone's right to discriminate against marginalized groups based upon religious liberty is going to fail dramatically. Yeah it's probably going to win some short term battles but for conservatives this one is definitely a loser.

I understand while they feel the need to give some sort of victory to social conservatives but business owners that like to mask their bigotry behind religious freedom are already starting to lose the fight. The ideal that Christians are a hated minority is laughable outside of the most bubble secure communities and most churches are hemorhaging members at a high rate in part based upon the institutionalized bigotry condoned by these religious communities.
posted by vuron at 7:29 AM on November 14, 2016 [1 favorite]

GQ: Donald Trump's 60 Minutes Interview Is the Wrong Way to Cover the Trump Presidency: Call me crazy, but I'm not willing to pat President-elect Trump on the back for courageously disavowing the violence perpetrated in his name, when in the same breath he dismisses it all as a hoax fueled by the liberal media.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:30 AM on November 14, 2016 [35 favorites]

But I still thought I'd see more of a wait-and-see calm, and less of a gleeful "suck it up crybabies" narrative aimed at people who are upset.

Yeah when I see that I assume someone is doubling down in order to drown out their conscience telling them "you fucked up." This is the motivation that drives victim-blaming; unable to deal with their own involvement in Terrible Thing, people lash out at the victims for making them feel bad about it.
posted by emjaybee at 7:34 AM on November 14, 2016 [7 favorites]

Donald Trump may have the new title of president-elect, but he's still plugging his old gig as the head of a massive business empire.

Trump's transition website is now equipped with the official ".gov" federal web address.

And while the "Meet The President Elect" section is typically dedicated to outlining an official's vision and background, there is one particular emphasis in his resume.

More than one-quarter of Trump's bio refers to his business properties around the world.
posted by Pope Guilty at 7:36 AM on November 14, 2016 [3 favorites]

Senate Democrats would have fun with those hearings.

That reads as overconfidence to me: As in, the hypothetical wouldn't succeed. But the context is a Congress and an unprecedented duration Obama's been blocked from appointee hearings. Am I incorrect about that? Sincerely. Given the commitment to negotiation Obama has extended throughout his terms, the bitterness, the recklessness, across the aisle is absurd.
posted by lazycomputerkids at 7:37 AM on November 14, 2016 [1 favorite]

I expect a "states' rights" reversal of Obergefell would mean reversing the, "all states must perform these marriages" part, but leaving in the "full faith and credit" section, wherein all states have to acknowledge marriages performed in other states.

Marriages of first cousins are permitted in California. They're a crime in Nevada--but a pair of cousins who marry in CA and visit NV are (1) not locked up and (2) not un-married while they're in Vegas. Likewise, marriage age with parental consent is 15 in Idaho and 16 in Oregon - a couple of 15-year-olds married in Idaho is not un-married when they go to Portland for their honeymoon.

Erasing existing marriages is, I hope, beyond the scope of even SCOTUS. (Not that they absolutely couldn't, but I think even the most conservative wouldn't stretch things that far.) And not requiring federal recognition not only puts the couples at risk, it puts the federal government in the weird condition of having to do bizarre double paperwork in a lot of cases. It also would result in telling armed forces personnel that they're only married during some assignments and not others.

That's not only ridiculous - it's extra paperwork. SCOTUS is not going to saddle every federal agency with the responsibility of tracking which people are married when, nor is it going to inflict the bureaucratic nightmare of mass annullments or divorces, each of which would need to be legally negotiated as shared assets suddenly become non-shared assets. As much as the bigots want to get rid of Obergefell, the most they can hope for is states being allowed to set their own rules on who can get married, not on which marriages they have to recognize.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 7:39 AM on November 14, 2016 [4 favorites]

Talking Points Memo: WSJ: Team Trump 'Unaware' That They'd Have To Replace West Wing Staff

After meeting with Mr. Trump, the only person to be elected president without having held a government or military position, Mr. Obama realized the Republican needs more guidance. He plans to spend more time with his successor than presidents typically do, people familiar with the matter said.

I hope that Obama realizes that he may be setting himself up to get blamed for Trump's inevitable fuckups this way.
posted by Halloween Jack at 7:40 AM on November 14, 2016 [7 favorites]

I hope that Obama realizes that he may be setting himself up to get blamed for Trump's inevitable fuckups this way.

If he didn't, he would be blamed for maliciously not explaining these things to Trump, who of course can't be expected to know anything.

Get used to the double-bind.
posted by Pope Guilty at 7:42 AM on November 14, 2016 [31 favorites]

#NeverTrump GOP: If You Want Peace, Prepare For War:

The war will come if President Trump follows in the footsteps of candidate Trump with the same vicious language of bigotry and division; the same ad hominem attacks on individuals who do not support him; the same policies of exclusion, bias, and nationalism; the same secrecy around his taxes and business dealings; the same promotion of hostile foreign regimes; the same hiring of venal, incompetent, and bigoted cronies; and the same efforts to undermine our Constitution and institutions of government.

If and when that war comes, the resistance will continue to be led by the hundreds of leaders from across the political spectrum who spoke out against Trump during the campaign, but that army will be joined by a huge new force of Republicans and conscientious independents who reluctantly chose Trump due to deep concerns about his opponent but are now liberated to speak their minds and join the loyal opposition.

Our forces will use every tool at our disposal to protect our country and its residents from Trump and his actions.

We will mobilize battalions of pro bono attorneys to defeat him in the courts.

We will build and support institutions that defend rational conservative policies.

We will recruit anti-Trump conservative candidates at every level to throw his sycophantic supporters out of office.

We will work with like-minded Republicans and Democrats to block his agenda in Congress and defund it in the agencies.

We will march in the streets, we will speak through the media, and we will bring his presidency to its knees.

posted by corb at 7:43 AM on November 14, 2016 [56 favorites]

Countdown to hearing that the "O" keys have been pried off the keyboards?
posted by mikelieman at 7:43 AM on November 14, 2016

So...apparently 47% of the US did not vote because they found neither of the two candidates compelling enough. Ugh.
posted by asra at 7:44 AM on November 14, 2016

I hope that Obama realizes that he may be setting himself up to get blamed for Trump's inevitable fuckups this way.

Given that Trump came out of his meeting with Obama wishy washy on ending Obamacare, having Obama in his kitchen cabinet wouldn't be a terrible thing. Though I wonder how much Bannon & Co. are going to let him see Obama after this.
posted by chris24 at 7:44 AM on November 14, 2016 [9 favorites]

More than one-quarter of Trump's bio refers to his business properties around the world.

It's interesting how the active military isn't allowed to run for office, but business people are.

President Elect Cheeto paused while during his campaign to go to one of his hotel's opening. But emails Hillary received and Clinton foundation ties were so much more important.

I hope that Obama realizes that he may be setting himself up to get blamed for Trump's inevitable fuckups this way.

There's zero reason that Obama should give two fucks about that.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:46 AM on November 14, 2016 [7 favorites]

>I hope that Obama realizes that he may be setting himself up to get blamed for Trump's inevitable fuckups this way

In addition to what was already said, at this point he probably cares more about doing what he can do ensure that his kids inherent a working country than getting wrongly blamed for stuff. Lesser people wouldn't be doing what he's doing.
posted by beau jackson at 7:49 AM on November 14, 2016 [36 favorites]

> a huge new force of Republicans and conscientious independents who reluctantly chose Trump due to deep concerns about his opponent but are now liberated to speak their minds and join the loyal opposition.

I think it seems more likely that those "reluctant choosers" will now be "vocal winners" but I hope I'm proved wrong.
posted by Tevin at 7:49 AM on November 14, 2016 [8 favorites]

I think President Obama is pretty used to being blamed for stuff he's not responsible for.
posted by zachlipton at 7:51 AM on November 14, 2016 [7 favorites]

Ugh. I work close to the Indiana Statehouse, and a huge motorcade just pulled up in front of it, with men in black suits everywhere.

Vice President Elect Pence has returned.

I feel sick just typing those words.
posted by Gelatin at 7:51 AM on November 14, 2016 [15 favorites]

Countdown to hearing that the "O" keys have been pried off the keyboards?

Or the "T"s
posted by drezdn at 7:56 AM on November 14, 2016

Huh a member of the GOP was all prepare for war, I nodded and tweeted it.
posted by angrycat at 7:57 AM on November 14, 2016 [2 favorites]

I hope that Obama realizes that he may be setting himself up to get blamed for Trump's inevitable fuckups this way.

I'm sure that occurred to him. I'm also sure that he's used to it after 8 years and also thinks the well-being of the country is more important. Because he's an actual leader and patriot.
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:00 AM on November 14, 2016 [19 favorites]

>So...apparently 47% of the US did not vote because they found neither of the two candidates compelling enough. Ugh.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that 47% of the US would not have voted if Abraham Lincoln was running against Jack The Ripper, because they just can't be fucking bothered.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 8:00 AM on November 14, 2016 [58 favorites]

47% of the US would not have voted if Abraham Lincoln was running against Jack The Ripper, because they just can't be fucking bothered

"Oh, I don't care about politics"
posted by thelonius at 8:04 AM on November 14, 2016 [13 favorites]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that 47% of the US would not have voted if Abraham Lincoln was running against Jack The Ripper, because they just can't be fucking bothered.

Or don't have the proper ID, or think they don't have the proper ID, or work three shifts and can maybeget the time off but it's unpaid and the polling place is all the way back home and that's another ten bucks of gas, or have two kids who have to be fed right goddammit now and one of them has a book report due tomorrow and doesn't know where the book is, or or or...

There are a lot of apathetic people. There are also a lot of people for whom voting is a privilege to which they aspire.
posted by Etrigan at 8:04 AM on November 14, 2016 [73 favorites]

We're into the first day of presentations at the very international and fairly progressive professional scientific conference I attend annually. So far the presentations have been very business as usual - the genetics of insecticide resistance is not inherently political - but I was a little surprised when, for example, the director of PAHO did not mention any concerns the potential of reduction or elimination of the US commitment to fighting zika virus.

There are a few thousand people here whose careers rely on the support of the US government through university employment, NIH/NSF funding, USAID, the Department of Defense, and so on. On the one hand, I admire their professionalism in forging ahead on presenting their vaccine research or whatever, but on the other, is it all that professional to ignore the elephant in the room? For us American researchers and development workers, what could we even say to our international colleagues?
posted by palindromic at 8:08 AM on November 14, 2016 [2 favorites]

The next time I see somebody wearing a safety pin, I'm going to ask them to name their state's Senators and Representatives.

Just so you know, if you happen to run into me, my state's Senators and my district's Representative's staff can name me.

Along with my state-level legislators, and all of my city and county commissioners.

And I encourage everyone who is able to meet with their public servants as often as possible, so that we can drown out the voices of the lobbyists.

It's not enough to know your Congress Member's name. They need to know yours.
posted by Cookiebastard at 8:08 AM on November 14, 2016 [42 favorites]

47% not voting is pretty much par for the course for modern American history, per the stats I looked up (keeping in mind the percentages are of eligible voters, the make-up of which has changed over time). The Obama wave of 2008 still had 43% not voting.

People don't care, or they are in groups that feel so disenfranchised that they believe that there's not much point. I have sympathy for the latter, but pretty much nothing but ex-Civics teacher scorn for the former.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:09 AM on November 14, 2016 [7 favorites]

The next time I see somebody wearing a safety pin, I'm going to ask them to name their state's Senators and Representatives.

Do that to me and I'll ask how you think being a dick is going to help.
posted by maxsparber at 8:11 AM on November 14, 2016 [47 favorites]

i think they best way we can join together to improve the situation is by making ever-smaller circles of who is really helping
posted by beerperson at 8:12 AM on November 14, 2016 [36 favorites]

I personally frog-marched my habitual non-voter friends to the polls. They are a) all white dudes and b) convinced that Clinton would handily win Michigan, so there was no point in their voting.

Their response to her loss suggests they may be more enthusiastic political participants going forward. I am hopeful anyway.
posted by palindromic at 8:14 AM on November 14, 2016 [14 favorites]

NPR's Master Class in Whitewashing the Steve Bannon Appointment

If you're going to cover Donald Trump's decision to make Steve Bannon his chief White House strategist, you at least have to explain why that choice makes a lot of people very nervous. The Washington Post's Jose DelReal, for instance, gets to the point: [...]

Now consider the disgracefully incomplete report that appeared on NPR's All Things Considered yesterday. Host Michel Martin talked with Domenico Montanaro, NPR's lead politcal editor, about Bannon's appointment and the appointment of Republican National Committee chair Reince Priebus as Trump's chief of staff. Here's what Martin and Montanaro said about Bannon: [...]

MONTANARO: Yeah. Unquestionably, he's a take-no-prisoners operative. You know, a former Hollywood producer, a Goldman Sachs managing director as well. He ran the website Breitbart, as you said, which has, you know, become kind of synonymous with the alt-right and certainly, like I said, no fan of the establishment Republicans. And establishment Republicans are no fan of them, so they're going to have to figure out a way to get along.

Um, there's going to be more about that alt-right business, isn't there?

Nope. Martin and Montanaro are through with that. All they can focus on is the possible political infighting: [...]

NPR's coverage of the election and its aftermath has been awful in recent days -- endless interviews with see-no-evil flacks and loyalists (on both sides), supplemented by voter-in-the-street interviews that repeat the same points you already know from the media's other voter-in-the-street interviews. The belief on NPR seems to be that the media should just let advocates for each side talk, and never seriously interrogate them. I'd compare it to the CNN strategy of hiring loyalist operatives like Corey Lewandowski (and Donna Brazile) for commentary, but on CNN at least those operatives argue with one another. NPR's preferred approach seems to be letting loyalists come on one at a time, and allowing them to spin and spin and spin.

At a time when basic American freedoms are under threat, and unfavored groups are at serious risk, I want to be told about the dangers. I want to hear about more than political power games -- and I don't want to hear one spin doctor after another telling me that everything's going to be all right.

posted by tonycpsu at 8:16 AM on November 14, 2016 [41 favorites]

I did enough frog-marching of my husband early in our relationship that now I just give him The Look and he goes. He LARPS as an anarchist but he knows he'd be sleeping on the couch if he just peaced out of the actual system of government that we actually have in this actual moment.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:17 AM on November 14, 2016 [18 favorites]

If you want peace prepare for war

Although true and a good plan the vast majority of its historical proponents were at least as interested in the latter as the former. If you are on top war is mostly good business. Would anybody care to taboo war zealotry and terminology in every day matters?

Chappelle was great. Link to the monologue.
posted by bukvich at 8:18 AM on November 14, 2016 [4 favorites]

Pope Guilty: Get used to the double-bind.

Oh, you mean how Republicans treat Democrats every day? Damned if you do, damned if you don't, because you're damned dirty liberal hippie commie scum who hates America and kills babies for science.

But Obama doesn't strike me as "let's sit back and see how this plays out" or "they made this bed, let them sleep in it" kind of guy. I'd like to think he realizes that things will get shitty for people who don't have the access to power that he still does, even if his words fall on deaf ears.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:20 AM on November 14, 2016 [5 favorites]

I'm going to ask them to name their state's Senators and Representatives.

Do that to me and I'll ask how you think being a dick is going to help.

Yes, this. My state's Senators and local Reps are solid Democrats (although I am increasingly hoping that someone, anyone can knock DiFi off her pedestal), and whether someone can name them has absolutely nothing to do with recognizing that violent bigots across the country believe they've just gotten permission to live out all their cruelest fantasies.

A safety pin isn't activism, and people who wear it thinking it absolves them of a damn thing are delusional--but it is a statement of, "I want a country where everyone feels safe." The bullies don't. And it doesn't take any particular awareness of current political leaders to understand that difference.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 8:23 AM on November 14, 2016 [7 favorites]

IOIYAR: Pence pushes for email privacy

Vice President-elect Mike Pence is seeking to keep secret the contents of an email relating to Indiana’s participation, at his behest, in a lawsuit to block President Barack Obama’s executive actions on immigration.

posted by kirkaracha at 8:24 AM on November 14, 2016 [7 favorites]

although I am increasingly hoping that someone, anyone can knock DiFi off her pedestal

from your mouth to god's ears
posted by murphy slaw at 8:24 AM on November 14, 2016 [4 favorites]

So, I've decided, among many other things, that I'm going to make a call sheet of my senators, reps, and state and key local officials and every morning, I'll take a short coffee break and call them to discuss Important Issue. Every day. The issues will change depending on what's on the agenda, but they will hear my voice. Every. Single. Day. Phonebanking for Clinton was great practice - making a handful of calls everyday is trivially easy.
posted by melissasaurus at 8:25 AM on November 14, 2016 [57 favorites]

I'm just continuing to wear my "Love Trumps Hate" pin. Every single day people come up to me and tell me they like it. I need to come up with a better response than just "thanks." Maybe I just need to buy them by the gross and give them out.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:27 AM on November 14, 2016 [22 favorites]

The Onion has given up on satire: Area Man Considers Self Ally to Women Unless They Threaten His Status in Literally Any Way
posted by palindromic at 8:27 AM on November 14, 2016 [16 favorites]

Trump Says Women May ‘Have To Go To Another State’ To Get Abortions (VIDEO)

The President-elect said women may have to leave the states in which they reside to get an abortion in his administration, hinting at an overturn of Roe v. Wade.

Donald Trump said the “pro-life” judges he appoints to the Supreme Court may well overturn the landmark decision legalizing abortion.
...
The President-elect said that he would allow the Supreme Court’s decision on same-sex marriage to stand because “it’s law.”

“It was settled in the Supreme Court,” he told Stahl. “I mean it’s done.”

Roe v. Wade was decided in 1973 and has been the law of the land for over forty years.

posted by kirkaracha at 8:27 AM on November 14, 2016 [16 favorites]

By the way, I don't just know my state senators, I live next door to Al Franken. But that has nothing to do with with the fact that I want everybody in the building I live in -- which is largely immigrant -- and everybody in the neighborhood I live in -- which is largely refugee -- to have a visible sign that I am an ally.
posted by maxsparber at 8:28 AM on November 14, 2016 [3 favorites]

Raphael Bob-Waksberg on Twitter:

First he came for the Muslims, and I said "Guys, let's take a wait-and-see approach here."
Then he came for the Mexican Americans, and I said, "Let's not be sore losers just because the other guy won."
Then he came for the press, and I said, "What makes this country great is our peaceful transitions of power."
Then he came for the women, and I said, "Try to have some compassion for the frustrations of the other side."
Then he came for the black community, and I said, "I know it sucks, but wait four years."
Then he came for me, and I said, "How could this have happened? I did everything I could."

posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:30 AM on November 14, 2016 [116 favorites]

The President-elect said women may have to leave the states in which they reside to get an abortion in his administration, hinting at an overturn of Roe v. Wade.


naturally the dude with the personal 747 doesn't see this as an undue burden *gnash gnash fume*

also this seems like a poor way to appease the pro-forced-birth crowd? roll back roe v. wade but imply that you're fine with women crossing state lines to get abortion services?
posted by murphy slaw at 8:31 AM on November 14, 2016 [4 favorites]

So, is it illegal to campaign for your electors to be faithless? I know that in some (most?) states they must follow the state vote. They're the last step before this nightmare is codified. Somebody out there has to be looking at just the Bannon appointment and is getting cold feet.

I mean, isn't stopping con artists like Trump the whole fucking reason for the EC's existence? Even if they threw the thing to the House, just anything to avoid Trump/Pence.
posted by Slackermagee at 8:31 AM on November 14, 2016 [2 favorites]

Oh, you mean how Republicans treat Democrats every day? Damned if you do, damned if you don't, because you're damned dirty liberal hippie commie scum who hates America and kills babies for science.

That is 100% what I mean, yes.
posted by Pope Guilty at 8:32 AM on November 14, 2016

Vice President-elect Mike Pence is seeking to keep secret the contents of an email relating to Indiana’s participation, at his behest, in a lawsuit to block President Barack Obama’s executive actions on immigration.

May our 46th president appoint judges who recognize a constitutional right to kick Mike Pence in the balls.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 8:32 AM on November 14, 2016 [12 favorites]

murphy slaw: also this seems like a poor way to appease the pro-forced-birth crowd? roll back roe v. wade but imply that you're fine with women crossing state lines to get abortion services?

It's a shitty olive branch to states rights + "abortion isn't banned everywhere."
posted by filthy light thief at 8:32 AM on November 14, 2016 [2 favorites]

I'm still using my Chillary Clinton beer cozie, like excessively, for any beverage irrespective of the necessity or appropriateness of the cozie for the drinking vessel. It's been well-received in the Atlanta cabs, bars, and restaurants I've visited over the past few days. Its main purpose is to let workers know that they can safely vent about the bags of assholes our countrymen have foisted on us. AND VENT THEY HAVE
posted by palindromic at 8:34 AM on November 14, 2016 [11 favorites]

Vice President-elect Mike Pence is seeking to keep secret the contents of an email relating to Indiana’s participation, at his behest, in a lawsuit to block President Barack Obama’s executive actions on immigration.

RELEASE THE EMAILS

LOCK HIM UP

etc
posted by snuffleupagus at 8:35 AM on November 14, 2016 [20 favorites]

how does that even work with the "full faith and credit" clause?

if roe is overturned and state A declares second trimester abortion to be first degree murder and makes the pregnant woman an accessory to homicide, what happens to the woman who goes to state B for abortion services?
posted by murphy slaw at 8:36 AM on November 14, 2016 [4 favorites]

If Putin and/or the Kremlin was in contact with the Trump campaign it actually would be a good move on their part to begin providing that evidence to western journalists. Now that the primary antagonist has been sidelined it's useful to expose the patsy because it would be much more effective than assuming that Trump will disband NATO or that the FSB will be getting direct intelligence from the CIA.

The Kremlin seems focused primarily at undermining western belief in the sanctity of elections and the fundamental underpinnings of the post-WWII social order. A social order that has been extremely effective at preventing European wars but also explicitly designed at containing Russian hegemony.

If they can also provide proof that the FBI knew about the connections it would be a two for one deal because it would undermine confidence in both the Executive and also the Law Enforcement community which seems like it would be ideal for distracting the US with internal struggles while leaving the Kremlin free to reclaim former Republics.

The Kremlin's hand in the rise of right-wing parties in the EU also seems designed at distracting the EU from maintaining a firm grip on the noose around Russia's neck.
posted by vuron at 8:38 AM on November 14, 2016 [4 favorites]

I did enough frog-marching of my husband early in our relationship that now I just give him The Look and he goes. He LARPS as an anarchist but he knows he'd be sleeping on the couch if he just peaced out of the actual system of government that we actually have in this actual moment.

If he's an anarchist, he should discard bourgeois morality and stop being so bought into the system that he regards the consent of the governed as relevant to capitalism and vote for harm reduction.
posted by Pope Guilty at 8:41 AM on November 14, 2016 [6 favorites]

Countdown to hearing that the "O" keys have been pried off the keyboards?

In case you are hazy on the details this was a canard perpetuated by the Bush staffers taking over in 2000. They claimed that the Clinton people pried off all the "W's" just because Liberals are assholes or something. The also claimed that the "hillbilly Clintons and their staffers" looted and vandalized the White House before leaving, cutting phone lines and filling drawers with glue. All bullshit. I wonder what bullshit stories we will be hearing about the Obamas?

I am mindful that we don't want to go all dystopian and tell each other scary stories-- I'm wound up enough that I have to keep reminding myself not to grind my teeth-- but one thing I have not heard talked about is where Trump/Pence are going to go with the War on Drugs. Pence signed into law an Indiana House bill imposing 10-year mandatory minimum prison terms for people convicted of second offenses for crimes involving methamphetamine or heroin. I'm mostly concerned about whether the Feds will continue to turn a blind eye to legal distribution of marijuana by certain states.


Trump Says Women May ‘Have To Go To Another State’ To Get Abortions (VIDEO)

When my husband read this to me last night, I started crying. It means that our new President doesn't give a shit about abortions themselves nor does he care that many women living in the wrong state will be forced to give birth no matter the circumstances. He has no convictions, he has no empathy. He is not even President yet and I could not possibly hate him more than I do now.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 8:41 AM on November 14, 2016 [33 favorites]

Today in Mighty Girl history, six-year-old Ruby Bridges became the first African American child to desegregate an all-white elementary school in the South. When the 1st grader arrived at William Frantz Elementary School in New Orleans on this day in 1960 surrounded by a team of U.S. Marshals, she was met by a vicious mob shouting and throwing objects at her. This event was commemorated by Norman Rockwell in his famous painting, "The Problem We All Live With."

One of the federal marshals, Charles Burks, who served on her escort team, recalls Bridges' courage in the face of such hatred: "For a little girl six years old going into a strange school with four strange deputy marshals, a place she had never been before, she showed a lot of courage. She never cried. She didn't whimper. She just marched along like a little soldier. We were all very proud of her."

If you don't have the courage of this little girl
If you're not willing to be threatened when you do the right thing
If you can't press on through fear
Don't post safety pin pictures

Walk the Walk
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:42 AM on November 14, 2016 [22 favorites]

Call your elected representatives' local offices. Ask the staffers to relay a message to your senator/congressperson. Request they go on record opposing Steve Bannon's appointment. Tell them why you want them to oppose it (hint: he is a white nationalist). This takes hardly any time at all. Be succinct and polite. It takes less than thirty seconds to make your point. Get used to doing this a lot over the next four years.

Here is how and why this works, from a former congressional staffer.

I don't know the absolute best place to begin fighting, but for me, this is step one. If you haven't yet made step one, this is a good place to start. I called Jeff Flake and John McCain's offices today; it was easy and took very little time. I am interested in hearing about other peoples' experiences if you care to post about it here.

If Trump receives insufficient pushback, very bad things will become normalized. Push back.
posted by compartment at 8:44 AM on November 14, 2016 [50 favorites]

Oh, and cheat. They don't have a record of how you vote, but can tell if you're a constituent or not by your address. (That's why they ask). If it's an R legislator, tell him you're an R. If D, then D. They will (sadly) care more.
posted by corb at 8:48 AM on November 14, 2016 [16 favorites]

So, I've decided, among many other things, that I'm going to make a call sheet of my senators, reps, and state and key local officials and every morning, I'll take a short coffee break and call them to discuss Important Issue. Every day. The issues will change depending on what's on the agenda, but they will hear my voice. Every. Single. Day. Phonebanking for Clinton was great practice - making a handful of calls everyday is trivially easy.

I've been wondering about this. Upthread or possibly in the previous thread, someone talked about campaigns arranging shifts of callers throughout the day, because if you don't, everyone will just call at lunch. I want to start urging people to call their congresspeople - maybe about DAPL? - but is this one of those things that's only worth doing if it's organized?
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 8:48 AM on November 14, 2016

> Trump Says Women May ‘Have To Go To Another State’ To Get Abortions (VIDEO)

Abortion's Underground Railroad: That’s the impetus behind CASN, which was founded last summer in response to the new law, and aims to help Houston-area women clear the growing hurdles to abortion access.

Riding the Rails of the Underground Abortion Railroad from Texas to New Mexico: Together, these organizations create a type of underground abortion railroad for women facing life altering events if they can't come up with the money for a standard, safe medical procedure.

History: Jane: An Abortion Service: a fascinating documentary about a secret, women-run abortion service that flourished in the midwest in the late '60s and early '70s during a time of illegal, and often deadly abortions. (Article about the documentary)

Fiction: ILU-486: Summary: In the not-so-distant future of Virginia, the Personhood Act has outlawed abortion and chemical birth control. That doesn’t mean they don’t exist, though.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 8:48 AM on November 14, 2016 [9 favorites]

Democrats look to exploit Trump divisions with GOP Congress

Schumer will be under intense pressure from liberals to oppose any conservative nominee. But moderate Democrats and those up for reelection in Rust Belt states that Trump won could conceivably help McConnell get 60 votes. At least eight Democrats will be needed to break a filibuster.

“He won the White House and that is part of the deal. He’s going to restore the balance,” said Sen. Jeff Flake (R-Ariz.), who was in strong opposition to Trump during the election. “When you look at the number of Democrats that are up, I think we’ll get cooperation.”

Flake wouldn’t say how Republicans would react to such a filibuster, and McConnell declined to entertain a possible rules change, saying Friday that Democrats are “going to want to be cooperative with us.” For now, the GOP seems to be leaning toward keeping the legislative filibuster and the required cooperation with Democrats that comes with it.

“Republicans ought to be consistent here,” Flake said. “The legislative filibuster is something that has helped maintain limited government.”

posted by tonycpsu at 8:49 AM on November 14, 2016 [2 favorites]

As a Jewish woman, the Bannon appointment makes me very uneasy.
posted by SisterHavana at 8:49 AM on November 14, 2016 [17 favorites]

I'm just stunned at how many people I used to be friends with are the type of people who would stand back and insist they alone didn't light the world on fire, rather than desperately wondering what they could have done to stop it.

I don't know about ceasing to be friends with ...

but there are way too many people I know (and some who I merely sort of know, ie: they're commenting in these threads) who I wish would own their piece of Tuesday's f***up rather than angle it all on to other people/groups who shoulda-woulda-coulda done differently. Or as I commented in the previous thread -- the problem with such a narrow margin of loss is you can attribute it to any number of single causes.

Bottom line: the anti-Trump vote fragmented just barely enough in just barely enough places to give him victory. And now here we are.
posted by philip-random at 8:51 AM on November 14, 2016 [3 favorites]

Glaubst du etwa an die Evolution?​ (Do you believe in Evolution?)
This (linked upthread) was absolutely awful. I thought I had a bit of a grasp on the differences between the US and western Europe (in as much as there is such a thing as western Europe) but this is so much worse than I expected. I knew that many Americans are against abortion and don't believe in evolution. But I somehow still missed the extent of that, apparently. And then there was "Be careful, there are lesbians in Minneapolis". Surely this is not "real America"?!

I don't understand it too. From reading Metafilter I got the impression that the anger of people did have some roots in economics. A dollar doesn't stretch as far as it used too, college is unaffordable, health care is unaffordable, buying a house is unaffordable, so, no wonder people feel crappy. That they then either blame immigrants or at least don't care if immigrants get blamed is problematic, that they don't see that it are republican policies that hurt them most too, but that this economic uncertainty exists, I thought that was a given. But I don't see that anywhere in this article. And I get the impression that if that was a big issue, she would have written about it.
posted by blub at 8:57 AM on November 14, 2016 [5 favorites]

Looks like Republican Senators are already realizing that undoing the legislative filibuster would be incredibly dumb on their part. Getting 60 Senators for the Republicans is extremely challenging and while Democrats have been able to achieve that mark more often getting 51 Senators is not really challenging at all.

Republican Senators also understand that if they give up the Legislative Filibuster they become subservient to the House.

I'm not sure that McConnell could even get the votes necessary to nuke the legislative filibuster as several of his colleagues understand that the legislative filibuster is a very useful way for "moderate" senators to extract all sorts of concessions for their constituents.
posted by vuron at 8:58 AM on November 14, 2016 [4 favorites]

As a resident of DC, I would second the call to contact your senators and representatives whenever you see this administration doing something dangerous, wrong, or harmful. Not all of us have the opportunity. Many of the people in this city (not myself, to be clear, I'm an actual coastal urban elite*) are vulnerable people made more so by lacking a voice in the national government.**

*You know how Trump's going to stick it to me? He wants to cut my tax bill by about $6,000 while raising taxes on some single mothers who make a lot less than I do.
**Apart from Eleanor Holmes Norton who is obviously awesome, but limited in what she can do.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 8:58 AM on November 14, 2016 [6 favorites]

The blaming is counterproductive as fuck when it's about slicing and dicing 1% of the population of three states. I blame anyone who pushed that "Trump" button. No one forced them to do that. No one held a gun to their head. They saw a dangerously unhinged racist, misogynist, anti-semite denounced widely by the national security apparatus, basically every newspaper that exists in the country, uncomfortably sidled away from by half of his own party, and went "Sure, sounds legit."

Next on my To Blame list: Every single disgusting low-life R cadre who helped disenfranchise voters knowing exactly what they were doing.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:01 AM on November 14, 2016 [37 favorites]

> Looks like Republican Senators are already realizing that undoing the legislative filibuster would be incredibly dumb on their part. Getting 60 Senators for the Republicans is extremely challenging and while Democrats have been able to achieve that mark more often getting 51 Senators is not really challenging at all.

Republican Senators also understand that if they give up the Legislative Filibuster they become subservient to the House.

I'm not sure that McConnell could even get the votes necessary to nuke the legislative filibuster as several of his colleagues understand that the legislative filibuster is a very useful way for "moderate" senators to extract all sorts of concessions for their constituents.

links plz plz give me links let this be real. I've been working under the assumption that the filibuster would be gone immediately no questions asked.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:02 AM on November 14, 2016 [4 favorites]

AIPAC will not comment on appointment of Steve Bannon due to "long-standing policy of not taking positions on presidential appointments"

Meanwhile, the American Jewish Committee and the Islamic Society of North America have launched a Muslim-Jewish Council, which will work to address anti-Muslim hatred and antisemitism in the US.

And this: "On MSNBC, Reince Priebus defends Steve Bannon, calling him "a force for good" and a "generous, hospitable, wise person to work with."
posted by zachlipton at 9:03 AM on November 14, 2016 [9 favorites]

“The legislative filibuster is something that has helped maintain limited government.”

And it maintains it by blocking legislation that is abhorrent to a substantial-but-minority portion of the legislature. Democrats should be using it constantly - after all, that's how you get "limited government."

By the way, I am fascinated the the concept of, "for every new regulation, two need to be removed" part of the platform. I have no idea how you could even phrase that... what counts as "a regulation?" A line of text in a law somewhere? Will we see Democrats proposing three-for-one laws where"One: Emissions are limited by X amount in Y conditions; Bonus Removal A: Remove the REAL-ID requirement for air travel; Bonus Removal B: Remove Sec 102(b) of the Copyright Extension Act and put copyrights back to the length they used to be.

(I know that Dems don't have the voting power to put this through, and that instead Repubs are going to use it to push multiple extras through. Let me have my fantasies so I don't collapse into a sobbing heap.)
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 9:03 AM on November 14, 2016 [3 favorites]

Someone needs to market whatever it is that Reince Priebus takes to sleep at night.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:04 AM on November 14, 2016 [20 favorites]

If Trump receives insufficient pushback, very bad things will become normalized. Push back.

John Oliver said as much.
posted by ZeusHumms at 9:05 AM on November 14, 2016 [2 favorites]

links plz plz give me links let this be real. I've been working under the assumption that the filibuster would be gone immediately no questions asked.

I don't have links, but Senator Mike Lee (R-Utah) is a strong believer in the existence of the filibuster, which means they would only have to peel off one more senator. Jeff Flake and Ben Sasse would both be pretty good targets for that. I really, really don't see the filibuster being gone.
posted by corb at 9:08 AM on November 14, 2016 [4 favorites]

And on the pushback front, remember how many people handwaved away the Tea Party astroturfing the electorate by having dozens of protests over silly stuff like birth certificates that, nevertheless, got that FUD on the news? Or how the Religious Right had big culture-war actions like Chick-Fil-A appreciation day?
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 9:09 AM on November 14, 2016 [3 favorites]

And this: "On MSNBC, Reince Priebus defends Steve Bannon, calling him "a force for good" and a "generous, hospitable, wise person to work with."

I wonder what Bill Kristol, Renegade Jew, thinks about that.

Oh. Really? Lol. [Twitter]
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:10 AM on November 14, 2016 [4 favorites]

From reading Metafilter I got the impression that the anger of people did have some roots in economics. A dollar doesn't stretch as far as it used too, college is unaffordable, health care is unaffordable, buying a house is unaffordable, so, no wonder people feel crappy.

All that is true - and for much of the country, they've decided that the reason they can't afford a house and health care is that brown people are taking all the good stuff away from them, that liberal elites are trying to abolish their communities and their families, and atheist scientists are making up a bunch of babble about the way the world works in order to steal the money they've earned for stupid projects like "save the whales;" don't they know that real people need that money?

They believe the money will come rolling back in as soon as America kicks out all the people who don't belong here (starting with, everyone whose skin is darker than theirs), shuts down the Gay Agenda, and stops listening to fearmongering wackos who don't realize that God created the world and will keep it safe for His Chosen. Also, they'd like the chance to punish all those people who've been pushing their horrible "political correctness" on the country and ruining it for good hardworking Christians.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 9:11 AM on November 14, 2016 [16 favorites]

Sen. Merkley (D-Oregon) put out a statement calling it like it is:

There should be no sugarcoating the truth here: Donald Trump just invited a white nationalist into the highest reaches of the government. Bannon has boasted that he made Breitbart News ‘the platform for the alt-right,’ which is the politically correct term for the resurrection of white nationalism.

“Under Bannon’s leadership, Breitbart News created news sections such as ‘Black Crime’ and compared the work of Planned Parenthood to the Holocaust. Under his leadership, Breitbart News ran this headline following the massacre of nine church-goers at an African American church in Charleston: ‘Hoist it high and proud: The Confederate flag proclaims a glorious heritage.’ He called conservative commentator Bill Kristol a ‘renegade Jew.’ Steve Bannon bears substantial responsibility for the open and disgusting acts of hatred that are sweeping across our nation.

posted by zachlipton at 9:19 AM on November 14, 2016 [61 favorites]

Just a nice reminder of what Ben Carson would do as Secretary of Education

“I actually have something I would use the Department of Education to do,” Carson explained. “It would be to monitor our institutions of higher education for extreme political bias and deny federal funding if it exists.”
posted by CarolynG at 9:20 AM on November 14, 2016 [16 favorites]

they've decided that the reason they can't afford a house and health care is that brown people are taking all the good stuff away from them

It's a correlation vs. causation problem. The most prosperous time in US history was immediately post WW2. Anyone thinking about it for a sec can figure out why. There was a big honking war involving many major industrial powers. The US was pretty much the only country that came out of it with its capacity fully intact. It does not take a genius to understand that the real economic anomaly isn't that times are tough (for middle class white Americans) now, it's that times weren't tough (for middle class white Americans) for a couple decades during and immediately after a World War.

Other things that have happened between 1945 and today: civil rights for black Americans, women's liberation, increased immigration from the global South.

Occam's Racist and Sexist Razor says that the real correlation here has nothing to do with a post-war boom creating an unsustainable unilateral economic hegemony but instead is between harder times for the white middle class and civil rights, immigration and women's rights.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:20 AM on November 14, 2016 [13 favorites]

“It would be to monitor our institutions of higher education for extreme political bias and deny federal funding if it exists.”

Come at me, bro.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:20 AM on November 14, 2016 [13 favorites]

“It would be to monitor our institutions of higher education for extreme political bias other than my own, and deny federal funding if it exists.”

FTFY
posted by Sing Or Swim at 9:24 AM on November 14, 2016 [1 favorite]

Oh, FFS.
posted by urbanwhaleshark at 9:25 AM on November 14, 2016 [2 favorites]

I don't know if this has popped up elsewhere yet, but from my Facebook regarding the protester who was shot in Portland:

just a heads up because the media is not really making this clear outside of Oregon...the person who shot the protester was not anti-Trump; he was pissed he was being inconvenienced by traffic being blocked/was in a hurry and had to be somewhere. He was an African American 18 year old male. He, sadly, was a former student of mine. He would have been a 12th grader this year if he hadn't been expelled. I have some ideas of why he may have done it, but I can pretty much guarantee you it wasn't because he agreed with Donald's policies at all.
posted by philip-random at 9:26 AM on November 14, 2016 [7 favorites]

Assuming that the republicans do not in fact do away with the filibuster at the start of the session, they wouldn't be able to do away with it in the middle of the term, would they? I mean this question is predicated on fascists following rules, and rules don't exist anymore, but if we pretend that rules exist and might be honored, those rules say that they couldn't get rid of the filibuster in the middle of the legislative session, right?
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:26 AM on November 14, 2016 [2 favorites]

Also toxic masculinity leading white men to feel like anything that doesn't involve hulking out and using their manly man powers is emasculating. How many exurban office drones have perfectly good salaries and health care but voted for Trump because he's going to bring factories back and that sounds superduper manly and awesome?

I also have a little theory going about emotional labor and how Trump inspired middle aged white dudes to give a shit. He gave them a way to make emotional labor manly. American men have much lower numbers for civic engagement than women. They vote less and they engage in the groundwork of political campaigns less. They go to church less. They volunteer less. They have fewer friends. All of these activities require a certain degree of emotional labor that many men consider feminine and emasculating. So here comes Trump, and he gives men a script for participating in a political campaign that is ultra manly! Be confrontational! Yell and scream! Spit on people! Don't be a namby-pamby knocking on doors and asking people politely for their vote--go out there and harass and intimidate the other guy! It's war! GRRRRR! He gave them permission to care but still retain their masculinity.

It's a hell of a drug, apparently.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:29 AM on November 14, 2016 [37 favorites]

Jeff Flake and Ben Sasse would both be pretty good targets for that. I really, really don't see the filibuster being gone.

Awesome, thanks corb; I know what tomorrow's call is going to be about.
posted by compartment at 9:30 AM on November 14, 2016 [3 favorites]

I expect a "states' rights" reversal of Obergefell would mean reversing the, "all states must perform these marriages" part, but leaving in the "full faith and credit" section, wherein all states have to acknowledge marriages performed in other states.

Ironically, a Made In Mexico solution...
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:32 AM on November 14, 2016

What I'm finding troubling is how quickly so many people who were really loud about "they're both awful" and "struggling to vote for the one I think is the lesser evil" and "holding my nose and voting for him" are now sounding actively happy about him being President.

I always understood that as code for "I'm voting for Trump but I'm a bit embarrassed about it/think he's going to lose and want you to think that I'm actually being thoughtful about my vote".
posted by gaspode at 9:34 AM on November 14, 2016 [13 favorites]

That's not only ridiculous - it's extra paperwork. SCOTUS is not going to saddle every federal agency with the responsibility of tracking which people are married when, nor is it going to inflict the bureaucratic nightmare of mass annullments or divorces, each of which would need to be legally negotiated as shared assets suddenly become non-shared assets. As much as the bigots want to get rid of Obergefell, the most they can hope for is states being allowed to set their own rules on who can get married, not on which marriages they have to recognize.

Compare the relative paperwork burden of single-payer on the payer, the providers and the insureds with the paperwork burden of Obamacare.

When conservatives complain about socialist red tape, I just laugh until I start to choke on my own vomit.
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:34 AM on November 14, 2016 [5 favorites]

compartment: I was intending to write letters, but your comment was the push I needed to just call instead. I wrote out what I wanted to say and made three calls, and it was very easy. Thank you for the suggestion -- now I've done it once I can do it again, social anxiety be damned.
posted by shirobara at 9:36 AM on November 14, 2016 [9 favorites]

It's just, like, the only way I can see the Democrats holding off any part of the disaster that's coming is if 40+ Democrats in the Senate establish themselves as the NO TO EVERYTHING caucus, like the Republicans did under Obama, and I could see "moderate" Republican Senators deciding they'd prefer total Trumpism over Democrats establishing a successful roadblock.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:36 AM on November 14, 2016 [6 favorites]

Reince Priebus defends Steve Bannon, calling him "a force for good"

A FORCE FOR GOOD?! A FORCE FOR GOOD?! WTF?! So we are going to have a NeoNazi in the White House but we going to be told he is a good guy. JFC. I can't take much more of this shit. What possible 'good' can Bannon bring? He is a sexist, racist, anti-Semetic Xenophobe who thinks the symbols of the KKK are just fine. Where is the good? Show me the good?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 9:37 AM on November 14, 2016 [23 favorites]

because, well, no matter how bleak I make my worldview, the actual world always manages to outbleak me.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:38 AM on November 14, 2016 [14 favorites]

Compare the relative paperwork burden of single-payer on the payer, the providers and the insureds with the paperwork burden of Obamacare.

I have no idea how anyone who been through the process of selecting an insurance plan is against single-payer. For all that "you'll start voting Republican once you have a paycheck, yuk yuk" stuff you hear, any opposition to single-payer that might have existed in me would have evaporated at my first job with benefits.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 9:39 AM on November 14, 2016 [6 favorites]

The thing to remember about making calls (though I haven't done it yet--I need to find a place in my building that is a) quiet and b) has good cell reception) is that it's not like making campaigning calls. The people answering aren't going to potentially pepper you with 20 questions or challenge you to support your case (some maybe rude, but answering your call is literally their job--you're not interrupting anyone in the middle of dinner or waking their baby up from a nap). Write a monologue down and read it. You don't have to prep a legal brief. Make your bullet points, read them out, give your name, fin. IMO a much easier task than cold-calling randos for Hillary on a Saturday night.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:40 AM on November 14, 2016 [29 favorites]

I am sure plenty has been said about Steven Bannon. On the surface he is well educated, well experienced, and his statements make sense. But his three marriages, two ending in domestic violence, then charges dropped; mean bad times ahead for women. His red face and dazed look in the last few portraits indicate a hardened and vicious drunk. Any talented young woman who goes to work for this administration should realize that victimization is straight ahead. There are some things women should not have to do to get ahead, and helping creeps get it without the a is not one of them. Any woman who goes to work for a man who supported Ailes, or who supports Bannon, should be aware of what their duties will come around to.
posted by Oyéah at 9:44 AM on November 14, 2016 [2 favorites]

those rules say that they couldn't get rid of the filibuster in the middle of the legislative session, right?

They have to do it when the rules are adopted at the beginning of the years' session.

That said, the wisest path forward for Democrats on this would be to use the filibuster wisely - if they filibuster literally everything it might be harder for people to successfully keep it on the next go round. But even a 2/3 filibuster would probably leave it intact, imho.
posted by corb at 9:45 AM on November 14, 2016

The Uphill Struggle Continues for Transgender America: This week is Transgender Awareness Week. It is a time when we remember those we have lost. We shine a light on the struggles we face as a community. We celebrate what we have achieved. I hope we reflect on just how precious our rights are. I hope all those who are oppressed in this world realize that they can never get complacent and that they cannot go it alone. Even though rights can be achieved, we all have to keep fighting for them to remain. We have to keep fighting for those who come after us. We all have to work together. No one group owns oppression. No one is the authority on what it means to be transgender. We are all a collection of our experiences. They all matter.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:46 AM on November 14, 2016 [10 favorites]

That said, the wisest path forward for Democrats on this would be to use the filibuster wisely - if they filibuster literally everything it might be harder for people to successfully keep it on the next go round.

Like the Republicans did?
posted by Pope Guilty at 9:46 AM on November 14, 2016 [6 favorites]

All that is true - and for much of the country, they've decided that the reason they can't afford a house and health care is that brown people are taking all the good stuff away from them, that liberal elites are trying to abolish their communities

How many exurban office drones have perfectly good salaries and health care but voted for Trump because he's going to bring factories back and that sounds superduper manly and awesome?

I don't know, some of these statements sound like guesses and wild supposition. Obama won states that Clinton (barely) lost, wouldn't the anti-brown people have turned out in force against him more than anyone? Racism is endemic, no doubt about that, but it's been that way in every election in this country's history. Trump did offer an easy solution, but he didn't seem to turn out more voters than Romney.
posted by cell divide at 9:50 AM on November 14, 2016 [2 favorites]

yeah, I think the disaster of 11/8 indicates that "judicious" behavior is at this point in time actually wildly irresponsible.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:51 AM on November 14, 2016 [3 favorites]

He may very well have turned out different voters, though.

(Also, I think Obama also did a pretty good--though obviously far more pro-social--job of making civic engagement seem, if not manly then at least really cool.)
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:52 AM on November 14, 2016 [1 favorite]

AP: Trump considering woman, openly gay man for leadership posts: IThe incoming president is considering Richard Grenell as United States ambassador to the United Nations. If picked and ultimately confirmed by the Senate, he would be the first openly gay person to fill a Cabinet-level foreign policy post. Grenell previously served as U.S. spokesman at the U.N. under former President George W. Bush's administration.

At the same time, Trump is weighing whether to select Michigan GOP chairwoman Ronna Romney McDaniel, a niece of Trump critic and 2012 presidential nominee Mitt Romney. She would be the first woman in decades to run the Republican National Committee.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:56 AM on November 14, 2016 [1 favorite]

Assuming that the republicans do not in fact do away with the filibuster at the start of the session, they wouldn't be able to do away with it in the middle of the term, would they?

The primary method for eliminating the filibuster could happen at any point, and it being able to happen at any point is an inherent part of that method.

Okay, so this next bit can be summarized as just meow meow parliamentary procedure meow, but for anyone interested:

It's a basic fact of parliamentary procedures that while there are written rules, what those rules actually mean on the ground is , in fact, whatever a majority of those present says that they mean. This is so because there's no higher authority to appeal to at that point. So Primary Way #1 you'd get rid of the filibuster looks like this:

(1) Someone does something dilatory (time-wasting) or follows current procedure for the virtual filibuster we've had since the 70s. This is what the written rules actually allow.
(2) Someone in the majority is recognized by the presiding officer and says "Hey, that dude can't do that, because that's dilatory and the rules forbid it" or "You can't filibuster that! The rules say so!" The important point being that the majority member's objection is entirely made-up and, by the text of the rules, false.
(3) A minority member objects and appeals to the presiding officer for a ruling. Someone then objects to the presiding officer's ruling, at which point the Senate votes on it. This would effectively enact the new rule.

Primary Method #2 is similar:

(1) A majority member moves the previous question, which is parliamentary for "Oh FFS let's just vote." This would be wholly made up; the Senate's written rules do not allow a motion on the previous question.
(2) Objection by minority member.
(3) Ruling by presiding officer and vote on that ruling, PQ now established.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:57 AM on November 14, 2016 [6 favorites]

(Steve Smith or Sarah Binder probably have better summaries than that but I am too lazy to go find them now)
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:58 AM on November 14, 2016

I have no idea how anyone who been through the process of selecting an insurance plan is against single-payer. For all that "you'll start voting Republican once you have a paycheck, yuk yuk" stuff you hear, any opposition to single-payer that might have existed in me would have evaporated at my first job with benefits.

And with employer-offered coverage your employer does lots of the heavy lifting for you. Typically people have the choice of a couple plans, maybe one HMO and one PPO.

The Health Insurance Marketplaces have dozens of plans in most areas (fewer in rural areas) and you have to slog through them unless you know what you're doing and can whittle them down, balancing the multiple variables of premium cost, networks, deductibles, coinsurance, covered medications, copay amounts, plan designs... Freedom! Choice! America! It's a thing only Ezra Klein could truly love.
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:58 AM on November 14, 2016 [2 favorites]

(or Greg Koger)
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:59 AM on November 14, 2016

Trump Says Women May ‘Have To Go To Another State’ To Get Abortions

This is what it's like now, this is what does happen. Women already have to, in a lot of places. Or, because these are often places where few desperate women would live if they had a better choice, women already have to daydream about having the funds to go to another state to get an abortion, but can't. I know Trump doesn't know that, but I hope everybody else does. Access for patients and medical training for medical students has been the issue of issues for as long as I've been a pro-choice adult. keeping the laws we've got are the rallying point because all the rest of the problem is even worse.
posted by queenofbithynia at 9:59 AM on November 14, 2016 [19 favorites]

At the same time, Trump is weighing whether to select Michigan GOP chairwoman Ronna Romney McDaniel, a niece of Trump critic and 2012 presidential nominee Mitt Romney. She would be the first woman in decades to run the Republican National Committee.

McDaniel booted a vice-chair for being a #nevertrumper. Personal loyalty wins again.
posted by Etrigan at 10:00 AM on November 14, 2016 [2 favorites]

I always choose whatever HMO is offered by my employer, even though they're always more expensive, because I cannot be fucked to deal with the paperwork, out of pocket limits, coinsurance, etc.... involved in even employer-sponsored PPOs. I'd cry if I had to buy on an open marketplace.
posted by soren_lorensen at 10:01 AM on November 14, 2016

the politically correct term for the resurrection of white nationalism.

I will be fully delighted if the left co-opts political correctness to rid us of the doublespeak the GOP has been dropping for the last two decades or so.
posted by palindromic at 10:10 AM on November 14, 2016 [7 favorites]

Obamacare: Here's 47 different plans you can choose from! Aren't you excited to weigh the costs and benefits of each one so you get a plan that's exactly right for YOU?

Even more fun for Paul Ryan's "Medicare"...your 82 year old Mom who can't remember if she took her pills today or not today is gonna be really empowered
posted by thelonius at 10:15 AM on November 14, 2016 [8 favorites]

Guardian: Don't call Clinton a weak candidate: it took decades of scheming to beat her
posted by chris24 at 10:16 AM on November 14, 2016 [22 favorites]

@BernieSanders

I come from the white working class, and I am deeply humiliated that the Democratic Party cannot talk to the people where I came from.

What the actual fuck Bernie. I am deeply humiliated that someone with so much influence is trying to tear the left apart when we need to pull together now more than ever.

I could never really get into the rage against Bernie before, but this? ARGH.
posted by rabbitrabbit at 10:17 AM on November 14, 2016 [59 favorites]

I wonder if a sufficiently ham-handed deregulation of the health insurance markets would allow interested states to roll their own multi-state single-payer program. Which could then eventually suck the other states in by being better and cheaper.
posted by snuffleupagus at 10:20 AM on November 14, 2016 [1 favorite]

Sad to see Sanders back in white brocialist mode.
posted by Pope Guilty at 10:20 AM on November 14, 2016 [23 favorites]

So stop whining Bernie, join the damn party again, and start doing the hard work, ideally not just talking to white people.
posted by zachlipton at 10:20 AM on November 14, 2016 [14 favorites]

@BernieSanders
I come from the white working class, and I am deeply humiliated that the Democratic Party cannot talk to the people where I came from.

Well Bernie, thanks for confirming my dislike and distrust for your statement about working with Trump even at the possible expense of PoC.
posted by chris24 at 10:22 AM on November 14, 2016 [12 favorites]

Christoph Waltz on the Trump "grace period"
posted by Etrigan at 10:24 AM on November 14, 2016 [12 favorites]

people where I came from

Brooklyn?
posted by soren_lorensen at 10:25 AM on November 14, 2016 [8 favorites]

This is a serious question rather than a provocation: why is that Sanders tweet so rage-inducing? is it because it is worded in negative terms ("the Democratic Party cannot"), or is it the content as a whole? for me I think the "learn to talk to the white working class" narrative is bullshit, but it's tolerable bullshit because it might give Trump voters who don't like thinking of themselves as white supremacists cover to vote for Democrats in the future — cover to say nonsense like "gosh, I didn't like them before they learned to talk to the white working class, but now I think they're okay!"
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 10:25 AM on November 14, 2016 [3 favorites]

One minute he's a white brocialist, the next he's too Jewish to elect. One thing's for sure, though: Bernard Sanders sucks huge turd's
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 10:26 AM on November 14, 2016 [7 favorites]

like that particular tweet doesn't seem like it's throwing PoC under the bus to me — but maybe I've got ideological blinders on that I didn't realize I was wearing.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 10:27 AM on November 14, 2016

people where I came from

Brooklyn?

No, apparently Bernie doesn't think of himself as coming from Brooklyn, and he doesn't see himself as being affiliated with the multiracial working class of New York City. He thinks of himself as coming from white people. That's his fundamental affiliation.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 10:29 AM on November 14, 2016 [20 favorites]

This is a serious question rather than a provocation: why is that Sanders tweet so rage-inducing?


Welll....a big part of "talking to" the white working class involves being racist...
posted by zutalors! at 10:32 AM on November 14, 2016 [3 favorites]

Given that 78% of Brooklyn voted Hillary, I think the Dems talked to people where he came from pretty well.
posted by soren_lorensen at 10:32 AM on November 14, 2016 [27 favorites]

why is that Sanders tweet so rage-inducing?

Because he's not from a white community, he's from a multi-racial community, NYC, but seems to be identifying with the whites.

Also, by saying he's humiliated by the Democratic Party, he's saying we did something wrong, that it's our fault, a party dominated by PoC, that WWC just voted to oppress PoC. He's literally victim blaming.
posted by chris24 at 10:32 AM on November 14, 2016 [40 favorites]

Buick, a lot of the post-election blame battle has been over whether we're here today because Clinton failed to reach the WWC who turned out for Trump instead (revealing themselves as racist or at least racist fellow travelers), with the implication that a turn toward the WWC in future must also mean a turn away from anti-racist Dem constituencies.

If Sanders had left it at "Working Class," it would have been better received.
posted by notyou at 10:34 AM on November 14, 2016 [2 favorites]

Sanders has been representing Vermont in Congress since 1991. Before which he was the Mayor of Burlington from '81 to '89.

He isn't from Brooklyn.

Vermont went for Hillary 61% vs. 33% for Trump too, but still.
posted by snuffleupagus at 10:34 AM on November 14, 2016 [1 favorite]

As a PoC, I am quite used to the victim blaming since Tuesday. I've been asked several times to just politely explain my existence to racists so the Democrats can win again.
posted by zutalors! at 10:34 AM on November 14, 2016 [28 favorites]

why is that Sanders tweet so rage-inducing?

try to think of a way to talk to white working class people that wouldn't work just as well for talking to not-white working class people but also isn't racist

head-scratcher, innit?

(if you come up with something, don't post it here, just send it straight along to the DNC)
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:36 AM on November 14, 2016 [27 favorites]

Sanders has been representing Vermont in Congress since 1991. Before which he was the Mayor of Burlington from '81 to '89. He isn't from Brooklyn.

Fine, then he's identifying more with the whites of Vermont than the multi-racial coalition of the Democratic Party and the USA.

And he's still victim blaming.
posted by chris24 at 10:36 AM on November 14, 2016 [6 favorites]

Fine, then he's identifying more with the whites of Vermont than the multi-racial coalition of the Democratic Party and the USA.

Yes. That's 'why the tweet is so rage-inducing.' IMO.
posted by snuffleupagus at 10:37 AM on November 14, 2016 [6 favorites]

It's wild that you can endorse a black Muslim for DNC chair, tweet stuff like this for months, gain a significant following among youth of color, and still get called a lackey for white supremacists:

Mr. Trump, you talked about being the champion of working families. Now produce. But we won't accept racism, sexism or xenophobia.

And I don't even like the "white working class" frame for this debate, for the same reason as prize bull octorok said.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 10:40 AM on November 14, 2016 [7 favorites]

Sanders has been representing Vermont in Congress since 1991. Before which he was the Mayor of Burlington from '81 to '89.

He isn't from Brooklyn.

In that case, he also isn't working class, because at that point he was a powerful politician with a University of Chicago degree.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 10:40 AM on November 14, 2016 [12 favorites]

It's wild that you can endorse a black Muslim for DNC chair, tweet stuff like this for months, gain a significant following among youth of color, and still get called a lackey for white supremacists:

Yes, people are still allowed to be upset about this shitty thing that he said!
posted by zutalors! at 10:41 AM on November 14, 2016 [20 favorites]

The tweet also ignores the fact that Clinton received like a million more votes than Trump. Her message DID work. He's implying that everyone who voted against Clinton or stayed home is "working class" and everyone who voted for Clinton is not. I'd like to ask him how he defines working class and see how that differs, if at all, from the demographics that Clinton actually won.
posted by melissasaurus at 10:41 AM on November 14, 2016 [11 favorites]

It's wild that you can endorse a black Muslim for DNC chair, tweet stuff like this for months, gain a significant following among youth of color, and still get called a lackey for white supremacists:

You can be good on some things and in some areas and still have room for growth and understanding.
posted by chris24 at 10:42 AM on November 14, 2016 [12 favorites]

Texas GOP Lawmaker Files North Carolina-Style Bill To Undo Local LGBT Protections
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:45 AM on November 14, 2016 [1 favorite]

As a side note, the language-scrambling part of my brain sometimes sees the title of this post as "the nation that destroys itself soils itself" which is also true.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 10:45 AM on November 14, 2016 [11 favorites]

Personally, what I dislike about that Bernie tweet is "personal humiliation" angle. It's right there with Trump's "the world is laughing at us" rhetoric.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 10:47 AM on November 14, 2016 [14 favorites]

Outrage grows over Bannon appointment from both parties, SPLC warns against Bannon appointment; Kellyanne Conway vigorously defends him, calling him a "brilliant tactician."

This is really frightening.
posted by stillmoving at 10:49 AM on November 14, 2016 [9 favorites]

I feel so embarrassed that this is my only contribution, but I am not familiar with the acronym WWC. While I can take a pretty educated guess, I can't find anything through a few minutes of googling... can someone enlighten me?

These election threads have been a huge part of my day since Tuesday. Normally when I have a few spare moments I would look at Google News or the NYT, and I listen to NPR from the time I wake up to the time I go to bed, but now I feel sick to my stomach knowing that people are normalizing the sexism coming from the top down. I can't handle any of that yet, maybe not ever. So thank you, everyone here, for posting relevant links and providing commentary and analysis.
posted by the thorn bushes have roses at 10:50 AM on November 14, 2016 [3 favorites]

but I am not familiar with the acronym WWC.

White Working Class.
posted by Talez at 10:51 AM on November 14, 2016 [2 favorites]

I'm pretty sure WWC = white working class
posted by kirkaracha at 10:52 AM on November 14, 2016

Thanks Talez! I've assumed something along those lines, but couldn't find a single source to confirm that.
posted by the thorn bushes have roses at 10:53 AM on November 14, 2016

I would feel better about Sanders if he would remain a member of the Democratic Party. I'm weary of his remaining above it all as an independent but being a de facto/de jure Democrat when convenient. His behavior feeds into an unhelpful narrative about the Democratic Party's legitimacy or lack thereof.
posted by palindromic at 10:54 AM on November 14, 2016 [18 favorites]

After meeting with Mr. Trump, the only person to be elected president without having held a government or military position, Mr. Obama realized the Republican needs more guidance. He plans to spend more time with his successor than presidents typically do, people familiar with the matter said.

OBAMA: Look, Donald, this is my private cell number. What I want you to do is, if you get in a situation where all the shit's about to hit the fan, call this number, day or night.

TRUMP: And you'll give me advice on what to do?

OBAMA: Hell no. I just want enough warning time to get my family to a lead-lined bunker.
posted by delfin at 10:55 AM on November 14, 2016 [35 favorites]

Hillary Clinton's corporate-backed leadership is not winning over the working class. Working people in this country have been getting fucked over for decades.

This election was the final death of the Clinton DNC. The idea that we can have a leader taking millions of dollars from corporate shills *and* advocating for the working class is simple false. It's time for the clearly ineffective political leadership in the DNC to step aside.

The alternative is to strngthen the hand of populist Nazis like Bannon.
posted by kuatto at 10:56 AM on November 14, 2016 [7 favorites]

Trump walked into the Oval Office like a two-pump-chump freshman thinking it was syllabus day, and what he got was the first day of law school, and he hadn’t done the reading like everyone else had, and Professor Obama decided to put him in the hot seat.

From an essay that is wall-to-wall gold at Brimful of Asha
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:57 AM on November 14, 2016 [25 favorites]

Gwen Ifill Dead at 61

2016 WHAT THE EFF.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:58 AM on November 14, 2016 [7 favorites]

The story of "Oh this is all about the white working class" seems awfully self serving for the party coming to power. That it was some wholly populist revolt is propaganda. The bottom line is that this was conservative media machine vs. Democratic Party get out the vote machine, and the media machine won.
posted by Zalzidrax at 10:59 AM on November 14, 2016 [35 favorites]

It wasn't a well-framed quote, but "victim-blaming"? Fuck that. Sanders should have been specific when he said "Democratic Party" and referred it as "Democratic Party leadership." Because the party upper echelons are victims only in the sense that they thought they could manufacture homemade fireworks and it blew up in their faces.
posted by Apocryphon at 10:59 AM on November 14, 2016 [2 favorites]

try to think of a way to talk to white working class people that wouldn't work just as well for talking to not-white working class people but also isn't racist

Hey, I know you've taken it hard these past few years. The rich are getting richer and you're just treading water, even as you work harder.

We all grew up believing that if we worked hard and smart, we'd get ahead, be able to take care of ourselves and our families, put something away for when we retire. But somewhere along the way that stopped working so well. Like I said, the rich are getting richer and too many people are going the other direction.

That's just flat out wrong, unfair and it that needs to end. Too many of our jobs are ending up overseas, while terrorists are busy taking potshots at us. That's why I want to focus on America, rebuilding our roads and bridges, putting people to work to rebuilding what made us great and maintaining that for the future. While doing that we're also going to focusin' on our military, to make sure our borders are protected and we're gonna beef up our space program. Michigan and Detriot build the best cars in the world. Now they can continue doing that and build spaceships that'll secure all the resources and riches for the future.

Will you help build this better America?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:59 AM on November 14, 2016 [16 favorites]

Hillary Clinton's corporate-backed leadership is not winning over the working class.

I think you forgot the word 'white' there. Because PoC working class voted overwhelmingly for her. Even more so than WWC did for Trump.
posted by chris24 at 11:00 AM on November 14, 2016 [28 favorites]

Not really directly connected with the thread, but I guess a feel-good tale, even if it encapsulates the sheer frustration of what is to come, won't hurt, right?

A friend told me a story yesterday about a rather right-wing but glam aunt from California who came over to Edinburgh earlier this year to visit. She'd had a hip replacement and it flared up with inflammation problems during her trip, so my friend took her to my friend's GP practice - which is almost a mini-hospital.

The GP saw her, said 'Yeah, that looks bad, we'd better give you a scan' and ten minutes later she'd been through the scanner at the practice. Then the GP went through her list of medications, whistling with surprise and at one stage calling the nurse over with "Look at this! We stopped using that twenty years ago." He reduced the list of something like ten medicines to about three, and added a couple more "which you can pick up at the pharmacy downstairs, actually, I'll just get the nurse to go there for you now".

Nurse returned with bags of drugs, doctor typed up a letter for aunty's doc back home, and said "You should feel better tomorrow'. When aunty got to get her credit card out, doc said 'Oh... we're really not set up for that. Don't worry about it'.

Aunty has completely revised her opinion of 'socialised medicine'. It was also the first time she'd seen a brown doctor, and that rather blew her away too.

(Needless to say, the Tories are trying to roll back everything good about this sort of thing - however, they don't control the NHS in Scotland so they can go stick a unheated speculum up their bums and spin.)
posted by Devonian at 11:00 AM on November 14, 2016 [54 favorites]

Will you help build this better America?

How would that be different if you were speaking to PoC?
posted by Joey Michaels at 11:00 AM on November 14, 2016 [3 favorites]

.

OH COME ON 2016
posted by zachlipton at 11:00 AM on November 14, 2016

The idea that we can have a leader taking millions of dollars from corporate shills *and* advocating for the working class is simple false.

The working class (WHITE EDITION) voted for Trump, a corrupt plutocrat. So your whole corporate shills argument loses a bit of steam.
posted by chris24 at 11:01 AM on November 14, 2016 [21 favorites]

build spaceships

we know how to secure the Blatcher vote at least
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:02 AM on November 14, 2016 [11 favorites]

The working class (WHITE EDITION) voted for Trump, a corrupt plutocrat. So your whole corporate shills argument loses a bit of steam.

I know at least a couple of people who insisted that because Trump was a self-made (ha) billionaire (ha), he wasn't beholden to corporate masters like other politicians.
posted by Etrigan at 11:03 AM on November 14, 2016 [7 favorites]

How would that be different if you were speaking to PoC?

Not sure if would have to be that different.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:04 AM on November 14, 2016

It all comes down to media spin.
posted by Zalzidrax at 11:04 AM on November 14, 2016

I think you forgot the word 'white' there. Because PoC working class voted overwhelmingly for her. Even more so that WWC did for Trump.

Re: WWC, On the one hand, you have a racist demagogue appealing to the fact that you are getting fucked over, and on the other hand you have someone who isn't even talking to you. Who do you pick?

The Democratic party must be an inclusive party of the working class first. The idea that we can also defend the corporatist status-quo at the same time is a joke!
posted by kuatto at 11:05 AM on November 14, 2016 [5 favorites]

Today, the American Military Partner Association (AMPA), the nation’s largest organization of lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (LGBT) military families, released the following statement following news that the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) is withdrawing its proposal to provide medically necessary gender confirmation surgery for transgender veterans.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:05 AM on November 14, 2016 [2 favorites]

Gwen Ifill Dead at 61

Won't link because it's FoxNews but here's the only context I can find (from 11/10/16):

PBS announced last week that Ifill, the "NewsHour" co-anchor with Judy Woodruff, would be taking unspecified time off for health reasons. Ifill, 61, was out for two months last spring. She has not revealed the nature of her illness.

.
posted by Atom Eyes at 11:06 AM on November 14, 2016

We've been through this a bunch of times already. Trump's a billionaire but he's able to talk to and present an image that is considered low-class, i.e. anti-elite. His economic policies are GOP orthodoxy, or worse, but his presentation and rhetoric made him seem different from the norm, from both Republican and Democratic politicians. One of the reasons why he won is that he's so slippery and self-contradictory and the media and party leaderships such a mess that no one effectively pinned him down for anything, at least not enough to get that final margin.

If we're going to have another primary re-ligitation, fine, but do we have to do a reassessment on why Trump appealed to his voters, again?
posted by Apocryphon at 11:06 AM on November 14, 2016 [4 favorites]

Today, the American Military Partner Association (AMPA), the nation’s largest organization of lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (LGBT) military families, released the following statement following news that the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) is withdrawing its proposal to provide medically necessary gender confirmation surgery for transgender veterans

Site is down, roomthreeseventeen.

I guess I'm not surprised the VA is already reversing their position. EPA is already instituting a hiring freeze, given how badly they're going to be hit come Jan 20.
posted by suelac at 11:07 AM on November 14, 2016 [1 favorite]

Because PoC working class voted overwhelmingly for her. Even more so that WWC did for Trump

except in places like Flint where they just stayed home
posted by philip-random at 11:08 AM on November 14, 2016 [1 favorite]

on the other hand you have someone who isn't even talking to you. Who do you pick?

Actually she was. With real solutions that go beyond what can be explained on a hat or with a scream of hate. If being "inclusive" of those who responded to racist demagoguery means pandering to that bigotry than fuck that kind of inclusiveness. We can make a coalition of PoC and non-racist whites and win. Hell, we basically did it this year.
posted by chris24 at 11:09 AM on November 14, 2016 [22 favorites]

Here's a military.com story: VA Scraps Rule to Allow Sex-Change Surgeries Over Funding
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:09 AM on November 14, 2016

There's a difference between not being talked to and not being told what you want to hear.
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:09 AM on November 14, 2016 [48 favorites]

I know at least a couple of people who insisted that because Trump was a self-made (ha) billionaire (ha), he wasn't beholden to corporate masters like other politicians.

I'm a self made billionaire
Trump livin', Clinton in prison
Private jet plane in the Air
Clinton remember when I use to donate to your race
And you'd show me off in every place

Now it's all about populism
You copied my style
Three debates couldn't drop me
I took it and smiled
Now I'm back to set Obama straight
Making America Great
I'm still the Trump that you love to hate
Motherfucker I'll Hit 'Em Up
posted by Talez at 11:09 AM on November 14, 2016 [1 favorite]

WWC

logo related
posted by snuffleupagus at 11:10 AM on November 14, 2016

I think you forgot the word 'white' there. Because PoC working class voted overwhelmingly for her. Even more so than WWC did for Trump.

Look at the net difference from 2008-2012-2016. Clinton's support was whiter and wealthier than Dem support had been in 2008 and 2012.

Team Clinton failed to rally support across the board, white and otherwise, in critical states. Compared to Obama's two runs, Clinton fared *worse* among non-white voters. Meanwhile, Trump actually *gained* non-white voters over Romney. For example, some people assumed that Hispanic voters would categorically reject Trump. That was super duper wrong.
posted by Sticherbeast at 11:10 AM on November 14, 2016 [9 favorites]

try to think of a way to talk to white working class people that wouldn't work just as well for talking to not-white working class people but also isn't racist

Here's the framing, once more with feeling:

The establishment elite is sucking money and influence away from everyone else. Both parties share some blame, but the Republicans have been the driving force for decades behind the deregulation and the lack of oversight and the financial voodoo that passes for economics here in the US.

Now. What do the working class left and the working class right have in common? They're getting fucked over and drained dry.

Who's to blame?

The working class left blames the elite. The working class right blames the working class left because that's what their media and their politicians blare at them endlessly.

The trick is to teach the working class right to follow the money, and to make a simple realization -- if you want to know where all your money went, the people poorer than you probably don't have it.
posted by delfin at 11:10 AM on November 14, 2016 [12 favorites]

EPA is already instituting a hiring freeze, given how badly they're going to be hit come Jan 20.

[Citation Needed]
posted by C'est la D.C. at 11:11 AM on November 14, 2016 [1 favorite]

Motherfucker I'll Hit 'Em Up

I'M FROM N-E-W JERS, WHERE PLENTY OF BRIDGE CLOSURES OCCURS
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:12 AM on November 14, 2016 [2 favorites]

Because PoC working class voted overwhelmingly for her. Even more so that WWC did for Trump

If the working class of color had voted overwhelmingly for anyone, that candidate would have won. The working class of color that voted, voted overwhelmingly for her. Those are two different numbers.

We can make a coalition of PoC and non-racists whites and win. Hell, we basically did it this year.

Hell, Obama did it!
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 11:13 AM on November 14, 2016 [4 favorites]

Compared to Obama's two runs, Clinton fared *worse* among non-white voters. Meanwhile, Trump actually *gained* non-white voters over Romney. For example, some people assumed that Hispanic voters would categorically reject Trump. That was super duper wrong.

Actually that's not at all certain. The whole Trump did better than Romney with Hispanics is based on notoriously inaccurate exit polls, in a year when polling was notoriously inaccurate, and was only 2%, within the margin of error. And Latino Decisions, the largest latino pollster, has huge issues with those exit polls.
posted by chris24 at 11:13 AM on November 14, 2016 [4 favorites]

Hell, we basically did it this year.

Just a heads up we actually lost this one

Yeah, thanks. Wasn't aware. Oh wait, the "basically" was the acknowledgement of that. We will win the popular vote by 2 million and lost three states by 107,000 votes, with misogyny, racism, and Comey's, Russia's and Wikileaks unprecedented ratfucking. There's nothing wrong with the coalition that keeps us from winning.
posted by chris24 at 11:16 AM on November 14, 2016 [11 favorites]

PBS statement on the death of journalist Gwen Ifill.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:17 AM on November 14, 2016 [5 favorites]

Re: WWC, On the one hand, you have a racist demagogue appealing to the fact that you are getting fucked over, and on the other hand you have someone who isn't even talking to you. Who do you pick?

The Democratic party must be an inclusive party of the working class first. The idea that we can also defend the corporatist status-quo at the same time is a joke!

Hey uh just want to point out the relative income levels of Trump supporters vs Clinton supporters

It's a fucking Republican myth that this was a working class revolt against the out-of-touch elitists at the DNC. The bottom line is that Trump's identity politics were aimed squarely at WHITE voters who are interested in WHITE power and privilege.
posted by Existential Dread at 11:20 AM on November 14, 2016 [46 favorites]

We can certainly debate the degree to which Democratic coalition building fell short among the WWC. But to say that Democrats have not included the WWC at all is a step right into Trump-framing land.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 11:22 AM on November 14, 2016 [16 favorites]

I come from the white working class, and I am deeply humiliated that the Democratic Party cannot talk to the people where I came from.

And so it begins. Or really, it's already begun. White working class people (implicitly straight; and not WWC people who have any connections to POC) are the important ones to court, says the socialist. I've heard this one from socialists before, and it seldom bodes well for anyone but straight white men.

But as I said earlier, they're always itching to throw the rest of us under the bus because they don't really like treating us as equals - and now they have a Marxist excuse. Our "boutique" issues aren't as important as coalition-building with people who hate us. This is how it always goes with the left - the parts of the coalition nearest to power always peel off to join power.

Something I've noticed: we on the left always think we buck trends. But if angry white straight men everywhere are refusing equality to women, queers and POC, why are we exempt? Our straight white men are rebelling, too, and they're eager to join the manly white working class for some socialist realism.

Note how it's "our party can't talk to you", not "voter suppression", not misogyny, not media, but insufficient pandering to white working class [straight] people because we, with our high-falutin' language, can't even be "heard". But believe you me, as someone who has spent a lot of time around white lower middle class people, if they don't like queers, women and Blacks, they're not going to "hear" you no matter how you sound.

On the green, someone was asking for songs that rock out while being really depressing, and I couldn't think of anything. But now an old staple of my adolescence comes back to me, a Lou Reed song called "Busload of Faith":

You can't depend on no miracle
You can't depend on the air
You can't depend on a wise man
You can't find 'em because they're not there

You can depend on cruelty
Crudity of thought and sound
You can depend on the worst always happening
You need a busload of faith to get by
posted by Frowner at 11:23 AM on November 14, 2016 [58 favorites]

Yeah I remember when all the working-class focused policies were being repeatedly derided (not disagreed with, derided) with condescension and contempt by Clinton et al. You see, socialized health care and socialized education are fantasies. And the poor and working class and struggling middle class had better just get used to the idea that their policy preferences were laughable to Clinton.

Because it's Hillary Clinton and the Democrats who are against socialized health care?
What?
posted by snuffleupagus at 11:23 AM on November 14, 2016 [8 favorites]

This election was the ultimate in ratfucking, and now we're back to the circular firing squad about what Clinton and the DNC did wrong. Basically, combine resurgent white nationalists, Russian interference and hacking via Wikileaks, FBI complicity and electioneering, the gutting of the goddamned Voting Rights Act, and here you go, President Trump and CoS Bannon.
posted by Existential Dread at 11:24 AM on November 14, 2016 [50 favorites]

The Clinton/Sanders primary battles are over. This is about who leads the DNC and the Democratic Party. The elites and their corporate allies have had their chance, it's time for Keith Ellison to lead.

The working class people have to be respected in this country. These are the people who pick up hammers, who drive trucks, who clean up and who built the country that we all live in. They are working harder than ever and here is the result:

For most workers, real wages have barely budged for decades (Pew Research)

The idea that we live in the richest country in the world and that ^ is the case is a travesty. Trump being elected is _the_ biggest wakeup call for me. If the Democrats do not represent the working class, who does?
posted by kuatto at 11:24 AM on November 14, 2016 [6 favorites]

That was the message. It's a real shocker that it's not something everyone wanted to hear. What a bunch of ingrates.

Diverging from the upbeat, idealism of your popular two-term predecessor and diving into cold realistic wonkery against a charismatic 'low-class' challenger worked out real well for H.W. in '92.
posted by Apocryphon at 11:24 AM on November 14, 2016

[Citation Needed]

Cite: personal communication from a friend at EPA.

Given the length of time federal hiring takes, I suspect EPA is going to stop announcing positions very soon, because nobody would get selected and cleared before January 20th.
posted by suelac at 11:27 AM on November 14, 2016 [1 favorite]

I'd say poor, working class, and precarious middle class. Of all races.

They went for Clinton. She won big with incomes under $50,000 and Trump won everything above.
posted by chris24 at 11:27 AM on November 14, 2016 [9 favorites]

Huh, apparently that "victory has many fathers, defeat is an orphan" aphorism was popularized by JFK (says a three-second googling). I wouldn't've thought someone who'd ever been within a thousand miles of a Democrat would say such a thing.

Circular Firing Squad Targets, Day VI
-the white working class
-POC
-coastal elites
-Hillary
-Bernie
-Obama
-"brosocialists"
-"centrists"
-"political demographics labelers"
-feckless media
-feckful media
-non-fecks-giving media
-SNL
-Facebook
-Twitter
-Instagram
-Google+
-Brexiteers
-ISIS

People who are laughing their way past the circular firing squad as they proceed down Pennsylvania Ave.
-Donald Trump
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:28 AM on November 14, 2016 [33 favorites]

In America, we all think we're middle class, and with income inequality, we're all under economic security. I recognize that the hardest hit went for Clinton, but that doesn't mean those who were making above $50k are not suffering, either.
posted by Apocryphon at 11:28 AM on November 14, 2016 [2 favorites]

They went for Clinton. She won big with incomes under $50,000 and Trump won everything above.

But what was the percentage of people with incomes under $50k who stayed home? Because I fear "stayed home" actually won.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:28 AM on November 14, 2016 [5 favorites]

I know at least a couple of people who insisted that because Trump was a self-made (ha) billionaire (ha), he wasn't beholden to corporate masters like other politicians.

"Trump the Billionaire" appeals to the white working class because he's not part of the elite. Think about it. Born and raised in Queens, not of old money, but as the heir to a shady racist local landlord. Always dreamed of making it big in Manhattan, but shunned by the upper class establishment. He's been a tabloid laughingstock for decades. He's a caricature of what a "millionaire" looks like, with his taste for gaudy excess and gold-plated everything. The WWC love him because in a real way, he IS one of them.
posted by monospace at 11:31 AM on November 14, 2016 [5 favorites]

But what was the percentage of people with incomes under $50k who stayed home? Because I fear "stayed home" actually won.

I'm sure high, but turnout as a percentage of the population is higher than 2012 and almost as high as 2008.
posted by chris24 at 11:31 AM on November 14, 2016 [3 favorites]

So what? If it's true, it's true. Everything Trump says and does isn't permanently tainted. Although I wouldn't say white working-class, I'd say poor, working class, and precarious middle class. Of all races.

Yes, let's just ignore the fact that the most celebrated speaker of the convention has organized unions and protested laws that punished the working class. Or the fact that Clinton was the only person on the debate stage advocating economic policies for the working class. (Trump's plan was a garbled trickle-down.)
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 11:31 AM on November 14, 2016 [2 favorites]

I also find it hi-fuckling-larious when people are all "oh get the WWC vote". I am a WWC person. Hello, nice to meet you, let me show you my union card and my resume of secretarial and call-center jobs. My white friends, yea verily, are WWC people - bartenders and odd jobs-doers and carers and sex workers and generally members of the precariat, and indeed my friends of color are also working class.
posted by Frowner at 11:31 AM on November 14, 2016 [46 favorites]

Don't make me link dump with fourteen youtube clips of hillary clinton and/or her proxies calling single payer a fantasy.

That's political plain talk. So what? Who made it a fantasy? It was Obama's opening position on the ACA. Hillarycare from 1993 would've been universal health care, making the same compromises due to the same opposition.

These are the kinds of misnomers that sadden me. Especially finding them here.
posted by snuffleupagus at 11:31 AM on November 14, 2016 [9 favorites]

You know, this whole "working and middle class whites vote out of economic malaise" thing is just so bitterly infuriating when you consider the realities in some places. My rural Michigan county voted about 2-to-1 for Trump; it's a generationally impoverished area, but there's also a pretty well-to-do giant lake-and-golf-course-based community that is loaded with well-heeled retirees from down south.

What is the #1, central, pretty much sole industry (other than a bit of seasonal tourism) keeping the whole county economy afloat, you ask? A university. And many of the local area voters are not always thrilled about the "types of people" a campus attracts. I don't know if they voted Republican out of habit, out of some fantasy that Trump will bring back industries that never were here to begin with, out of Clinton-misogyny-hatred, or (quite likely) out of resentment for darker and foreign and liberal people. But I hope they're happy when they see the effects on the local economy, tax base, etc. after students and faculty from other areas of the state, nation, and world are too afraid or angry (or banned) to come here anymore, especially in an era of already declining enrollments and state funding.

That's already a big problem in trying to attract faculty -- oddly enough, highly qualified cosmopolitan PhDs from around the US and world are not really lining up to consign their futures to a deep red area in the middle of nowhere an hour away from a decent restaurant.

Enjoy your lily-white ghost town, folks!
posted by FelliniBlank at 11:32 AM on November 14, 2016 [16 favorites]

This is probably largely my fault but I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or what you mean (and I do want to know what you mean, if you don't mind explaining more.)

I agree with you. I'm likening the path from Obama to Clinton to Reagan to H.W., in terms of image and perception. We went from "Hope and Change" to "Nope and Can't."

Which isn't entirely true, but that's how it feels. Clinton's platform, I'm sure, had tons of great policies. But there never seemed to be an underlying theme, a vision, a narrative to carry it on. There definitely felt like she was promising more of the same, or, in some cases even a little less (in the sense that her campaign was couched by realities). That made it seem less inspiring. It sucks that this process ends up being about branding and pandering and feelings, rather than good governance. But that's American democracy.
posted by Apocryphon at 11:33 AM on November 14, 2016

What they stay home vote heard was not nuances of economic policy, it was "Clinton under investigation" and "Wikileaks show Clinton cheated at the primary"

This is what I've heard from, you know, actual people ranging from military enlistees to blue collar folks to tech bros, not the media trying to fashion a narrative.
posted by Zalzidrax at 11:34 AM on November 14, 2016 [10 favorites]

Not caught up and I know the Politico article has been linked here, but the IndyStar article on Pence's redacted email is an important read:

Legal experts fear the stakes may be much higher than mere politics because the decision could remove a judicial branch check on executive power and limit a citizen's right to know what the government is doing and how it spends taxpayer dollars.

"It comes down to this — the court is giving up its ability to check another branch of government, and that should worry people," said Gerry Lanosga, an Indiana University media professor specializing in public records law.

What's Mike Pence hiding in his emails?
posted by salix at 11:36 AM on November 14, 2016 [4 favorites]

According to the National Exit Poll, Clinton won by 12 points (53–41%) among voters with income under $30k, and by 9 points (51–42%) among voters with income between $30k and $50k.
posted by mbrubeck at 11:36 AM on November 14, 2016 [18 favorites]

Because PoC working class voted overwhelmingly for her.

Remember that article posted way upthread or last thread about the two definitions of working class? I'm really not sure there /is/ a broad POC "working class", when working class is defined as "children of people with blue collar incomes that could provide a middle class life for a family, taking similar jobs now but not seeing that same security." Not a lot of POC were admitted to those stable blue collar jobs in the first place. Most unions didn't even let them in.

So POC in the same jobs don't have that dawning sense of horror that the world is slipping away from them. They just know they're still fucked, as they have been fucked before. And honestly because opportunities and anti-discrimination law, they're one of the few groups often doing better than their parents. I know I and most of my POC friends are.
posted by corb at 11:36 AM on November 14, 2016 [8 favorites]

She didn't "win big" among households under $50k. Nothing I'm reading says that.

She won under $30,000 by 12 points and 30-50,000 by 9 points. Trump won the rest and none of the other income demos was separated by more than 4 points.
posted by chris24 at 11:37 AM on November 14, 2016 [3 favorites]

This is kind of fun, like most gallows humor:

When the press asked Kellyanne Conway about Bannon's alt-right tendencies, she didn't say they were wrong. She said:

"I’m personally offended that you think I would manage a campaign where that would be one of the going philosophies."

It's a great PR answer, when you break it down. She's not denying that Bannon has that philosophy, because that would be an obvious lie. She's not even denying that his philosophy influenced the campaign, because that would also be an obvious lie. She's not even denying that his was a "going philosophy," which would at least be debatable.

Quite the opposite: She's telling the truth.
posted by radicalawyer at 11:37 AM on November 14, 2016 [13 favorites]

Upthread, people were talking about the "facebook bubble". You can fix that, you know. You can set your news feed to "most recent" instead of "top stories".. but you have to do it every single time you go to facebook.

If that becomes annoying or there's just too many stories, there's a FB browser extension called FB Purity that allows you granular control over your facebook feed. You can hide all types of filler stories (ads, "blah changed their profile picture", etc), force facebook to sort by newest, blacklist/whitelist people so you always see their stuff. It's pretty great. For those of you who want to break out of the bubble facebook feeds you, it's a very good way to make it all manageable.
posted by zug at 11:37 AM on November 14, 2016 [4 favorites]

Clinton's platform, I'm sure, had tons of great policies.

Funny they were easy enough to access and read
posted by zutalors! at 11:38 AM on November 14, 2016 [28 favorites]

I was hoping that post-election this kind of convo might be possible without the knee-jerk U MUST LOVE REPUBS!!! response; perhaps not.

If you can reach the least racist, least sexist, one percent of Trump voters, or even one percent of non-voters, you win an election like this. Nobody is saying the Dems have to appeal to the deplorables. There are good people that can be brought to our side. Lumping them all in a box called "angry white men" doesn't help at all.
posted by rocket88 at 11:39 AM on November 14, 2016 [3 favorites]

I also find it hi-fuckling-larious when people are all "oh get the WWC vote". I am a WWC person. Hello, nice to meet you, let me show you my union card and my resume of secretarial and call-center jobs. My white friends, yea verily, are WWC people - bartenders and odd jobs-doers and carers and sex workers and generally members of the precariat, and indeed my friends of color are also working class.

trucks and hammers, Frowner, trucks and hammers.
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:40 AM on November 14, 2016 [9 favorites]

You know the message that I got in pro-Hillary circles was "We have the most progressive platform ever with good things for everyone and the most experienced woman to fight for them"

It's a message that needed to get out and did not break out of the Hillary bubble enough. Who is to blame for that is less relevant than how we make that sort of message heard, and loud. We are the party of the people, of policies that help people, and the people means everyone.
posted by Zalzidrax at 11:42 AM on November 14, 2016 [9 favorites]

How is it a misnomer to repeat something Clinton said

It's a misnomer to cite a statement that X is not possible to support a smear campaign that implies the position that X is undesirable. HRC and BHO would've both supported single payer if it were doable in Congress.


I mean you're making an number of arguments here that all boil down to "it was OK for Clinton to be disrespectful and condescending." I do not think it was okay, nor was it smart.

No, I'm not making a tone argument. You are.

And "especially finding them here" is something I really don't understand. People who disagree with you are smart enough, good enough, moral enough, and capable enough of critical thinking to be here on Metafilter with you.

Again, not what I'm saying. I'm saying that Hillary isn't against single payer and it's disappointing that so many generally well informed people, here and elsewhere, buy into that. Maybe address the substance instead of trying to hang a frame on my comments that isn't there.
posted by snuffleupagus at 11:43 AM on November 14, 2016 [10 favorites]

Upthread, people were talking about the "facebook bubble". You can fix that, you know. You can set your news feed to "most recent" instead of "top stories".. but you have to do it every single time you go to facebook.

I have been doing this ever since I knew it was an option (at least for the last year, maybe longer). It still doesn't show you all of your friends' posts in reverse chronological order, though, like it did back when life was simple and facebook was only available to people with a university email address.

I really, really hope the company is taking a fucking hard look at themselves and the damage they've done to American democracy with their little algorithms and their wide-eyed denials that they were creating a beautiful machine for the efficient distribution of fascist lies and propaganda.
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:44 AM on November 14, 2016 [4 favorites]

Hello, I am a struggling rural white man who hammers trucks or drives trucks full of hammers or whatever and I would vote for Democrats if only Keith Ellison were the party chair.
posted by theodolite at 11:45 AM on November 14, 2016 [12 favorites]

This is a pretty apt comparison.

@TVietor08
Imagine if Obama had chosen Rahm as CoS and Farrakhan as chief strategist. Would the stories be about finding common ground?
posted by chris24 at 11:50 AM on November 14, 2016 [19 favorites]

Wait, what, the party that had the most progressive party platform ever is somehow against the Working Class?

The party that has pushed for higher minimum wages?

The party that pushes for gender equity in terms of pay?

The party that is consistently pushing for expanded access to higher education?

The party that consistently pushes for consumer protections?

The party that brought back the auto industry from implosion?

The party that increased access to healthcare for all Americans?

That party is somehow against the working class? Fuck that bullshit. No this is 100% about the "WWC" looking at the advances made at the real bottom of the heap (PoC, LGBT, Immigrant Communities) under Obama and were threatened.

This is 100% about the White Working Class (let's be honest the White Middle Class) in smaller Rust Belt states feeling threatened that their cultural, social, and economic hegemony is being threatened by a rising class of PoC that are typically clustered around larger cities throughout the US.

Pluralism is incredibly threatening to those at the top of the pecking order and everytime PoC come anywhere close to achieving some lasting equality the White Majority pushes back.

This narrative that this is somehow about White Working Class being ignored by the Democratic Elite is nonsense. The Republicans are going to fuck them over even harder than macroeconomics is going to fuck them over. This was about the WWC looking at a demagogue offering a scapegoat (PoC, China, Free Trade) and the WWC being willing to sign on to a total nonsense platform because while the WWC are going to get boned hard over the next 4 years they can rest content that the Republicans will focus on fucking over PoC even harder.
posted by vuron at 11:51 AM on November 14, 2016 [78 favorites]

Charles Pierce: Why Hiring Steve Bannon Is the Same as Hiring David Duke. No white hoods required.

It's a sad moment for this country when the best hope you have for an incoming administration is that it will be able to jettison the racism and xenophobia that was its primary fuel while fulfilling the impossible economic promises that it has made. If that doesn't happen, and the impossible economic promises do not come to pass, only the racism and xenophobia will be all that's left and over the weekend, we learned that they will have a friend at the apex of our government to keep them warm.

posted by homunculus at 11:52 AM on November 14, 2016 [4 favorites]

Imagine if Obama had chosen Rahm as CoS

uh

am I in an alternate timestream where he didn't? because if so I will just go to sleep now and wake up back in the one I came from.
posted by queenofbithynia at 11:53 AM on November 14, 2016 [7 favorites]

Funny they were easy enough to read.

Do you honestly believe the average voter, for either party, of any political alignment, from any education or income level, anywhere does this. That they read platforms and position papers instead of what the news- or rather their favored ideological outlet- paraphrases for them?
posted by Apocryphon at 11:53 AM on November 14, 2016 [4 favorites]

that's moving a goalpost - you yourself sounded pretty unfamiliar with Clinton's policy positions
posted by zutalors! at 11:54 AM on November 14, 2016 [10 favorites]

am I in an alternate timestream where he didn't? because if so I will just go to sleep now and wake up back in the one I came from.

It's the second half the the tweet where the apt comparison comes in. Rahm and Farrakhan to Preibus and Bannon. Adding Farrakhan to the Obama team to compare it to Trumps.
posted by chris24 at 11:55 AM on November 14, 2016 [2 favorites]

in smaller Rust Belt states feeling threatened that their cultural, social, and economic hegemony is being threatened

To be fair, given when Detroit started tanking, and the conditions of these states, they've lost that hegemony a long long time ago
posted by Apocryphon at 11:56 AM on November 14, 2016

am I in an alternate timestream where he didn't? [choose Rahm Emmanuel as Chief of Staff]

You are in the timeline where people think everything they say must be in the form of sarcasm
posted by thelonius at 11:56 AM on November 14, 2016

no just the one where "imagine if" is followed by an imaginary thing or a true thing where that's the joke, but not one of each. it's a pleasant place. time. whichever.
posted by queenofbithynia at 11:57 AM on November 14, 2016 [3 favorites]

Hillary Clinton lost to Donald Trump. That's the motivation. And for the next two years, this is the focus: To figure out how the Democratic party can be the inclusive party of economic growth.

The Clinton DNC machine done screwed us all over ("Hello president Trump!").
And now it's time to clean house. Major figures in Democratic party seem to understand this. Schumer, Reid and others are coming out in favor of Keith Ellison. The idea that Hillary Clinton could represent the interests of billionaires and bankers and the working class is a sad joke.

Having a President Trump is a very bitter lesson learned.
posted by kuatto at 11:59 AM on November 14, 2016 [4 favorites]

You don't have to do this kind of knee-jerk "if you're not with us you're against us" thing anymore.

I'm going to ask you again to stop making ad hominem attacks on me by mischaracterizing the intent and the substance of my comments by using language that isn't in them.

Seriously, stop it. It's not OK.
posted by snuffleupagus at 12:00 PM on November 14, 2016 [10 favorites]

that's moving a goalpost - you yourself sounded pretty unfamiliar with Clinton's policy positions

My angle is that the time to debate policy substance is more or less over- I already know that the Clinton campaign absorbed many of Sanders' proposals after he conceded. My point is that it really is about tone. The messaging and the messengers chosen did not emotionally connect with enough people to carry out the predicted Clinton landslide. We live in a post-fact universe of truthiness and all that. It's time to embrace it and make new myths, new visions, that can counteract the one that just won. Connect those policies with the people in a way that's better than it was this year.

I'm all for better policy as well, but sadly basic income is as regarded by the mainstream as an even more outlandish myth than Bigfoot.
posted by Apocryphon at 12:00 PM on November 14, 2016 [3 favorites]

The idea that Hillary Clinton could represent the interests of billionaires and bankers and the working class is a sad joke.

Well, the right thinks Donald Trump can do that.
posted by zutalors! at 12:02 PM on November 14, 2016 [20 favorites]

Bannon is the first big test, I think it's one that will set the stage for a lot of other battles.
posted by cell divide at 12:02 PM on November 14, 2016 [4 favorites]

I watched all the debates. None of the candidates running expected this outcome. Every Republican was repudiating, refuting and running as fast and far as possible from the toxic Trump taint. Many candidates wouldn't even say who they would vote for. It was a pretty wild split (and may be a saving grace). By the second round of debates everyone was speaking platitudes to how bi-partisan they were. "Across the aisle" acclamations flowed. Every Republican was also suddenly best buddies with Obama. This was not a field that felt secure and many were fighting for survival.

The Democrats on the other hand were not showing many signs of being invigorated or invigorating, "just don't make any kerfuffle and we'll all cross the finish line together" sort of unspoken rule. The anger and hope that had risen on the left during the primary having been sufficiently tamped down and quieted made many seemingly forget the Party platform even existed and turned to a lot of business as usual canned responses. "We will make it more affordable for larger numbers of people so they can have the security they deserve". Sure nothing to attack but nothing to hold on to. I think the sums of money needing raised stifled belief in a small donor path and old habits and rhetoric was returned to. Also both sides expressed disgust for the distortions and smears of PACattack ads. Collusion being a common charge.

Tammy Duckworth was the clearest in articulating and owning policy positions she also chatted up her small donors, 15$ min wage because almost 70% of minimum wage earners are women. I'm pretty sure I cheered. (Kirk also didn't seem fit enough to continue serving (but Duckworth was outstanding in the House and I'm really happy to have her in the Senate)). Misty Snow also held solidly to the platform. But being brand new to politics and running in Utah she was facing a somewhat insurmountable obstacle, she was my favorite underdog. One discovery I made was Thomas Dixon (was running for Senate in South Carolina (the moderator (Danielle Vinson, an associate professor of political science) was also feisty and at one point let Tim Scott know she thought his position on Merrick Garland was not to her liking, she didn't exactly dress him down but she made it politely but pointedly clear she disagreed with him (sure, not really proper, but moderators who asked about Obamacare without showing any understanding that wasn't actually the name of the bill tried my patients, so was a nice reprieve))). Anyway this guy is good. He answers with calm and agreement then as he expounds and explains he becomes a fire breathing beast of what is right and just. It is hard to decide which debates I liked most but is definitely in my top 10. I liked Alaska a lot too because it was the only debate that mentioned first nations. And they had a lot of candidates. More voice and choice, always fun, well more than the outcome at least. All debates with more than two people were better because the added libertarian voices were good at highlighting areas of agreement and more policy flowed. I was sad for Feingold, but he didn't bring his usual spark to either debate. There was a lot of vote nitpicking and explaining what bills and votes really meant. Johnson was also one of the most unapologetic Trump backers. Hassan was a nice surprise. Hopefully she will show some vibrancy because there was none in the debates. She just needed to say Trump and Ayotte was totally on the defensive. Teachout I had much excitement for. I have seen her impassioned but she didn't bring it to the debates. I'd best stop because I have rambling thoughts on them all and while millions possibly watched them live, the CSPAN rewatching is fairly meager. The counter maybe isn't exact but many have tallies under 1000 and even 100 views. This is an area where I think the CNN's, MSNBC's and their ilk do a public disservice. The government is more than the executive and I'm going to suggest (have no data to back this up just my feeling and could be totally wrong) that while down ballot was mentioned the races themselves that were in play or being affected were ignored. Or reported on so minimally as to be meaningless (what are your thoughts on the top of the ticket doesn't count because the object is again an office they aren't even fucking running for). Perhaps it wouldn't make an iota of difference, and there is sufficiently robust local coverage that all are intimately familiar with their choices ... just seems like it would be helpful to dig into more candidates as they have impact on a national level too.

The question that annoyed me most was "What would you do about Syria and the threat of ISIS?". Apparently it is the biggest problem facing the USA. And every Senate or House candidate could somehow pen a bill that will suddenly fix everything there. Also the only response seems to be kill the bad guys with drones. Then again it is a drop in the bucket when it comes to the pontificating on what nations need to be made to heel and what foreigners need killed ... it still amazes me. Like Tim Kaine could have moral qualms over executing people and personally disagrees with abortion. But then seems to not have a second thought and a wave of the hand it becomes "Take out the leaders. Hillary will lead a team and get Al-baghdadi" (then again he was engaged in a flag waving, crucifix kissing contest so I take the his whole act with a grain of salt).

One interesting thing was that citizens questions didn't ever focus on foreign affairs. Trade wasn't an issue, the Iran deal wasn't on the radar, the deficit nary a mention (also not all debates accepted citizens questions, so they may have come in other states had they been allowed). These are sort of presidential debate reuse questions that were asked in most every debate. Health and education were the two main recurring themes or services people wanted addressed. A good question would go "As people age a portion will suffer hearing loss. And depending on the severity it can lead to social isolation and depression. Medicare doesn't cover hearing aids. What are your thoughts on this?". A real world scenario, easily envisioned that is very much a policy that could be written.

Climate change received sporadic mention. Taxing and drilling is where every exchange bent and ended. Democratic candidates would benefit from actually boning up on the subject. One of the problems is the lack of hearings to inform them or again the big media organization need to take more than five seconds of "Trump calls it a hoax what's your reaction" that then gets used like there is a real question for debate. It is absurd. Also Democrats have the power to call hearings and get witnesses even when they are in the minority, they usually don't get to use official rooms and are relegated to the basement, but it was something they did under Bush when Republicans refused to look at little things like torture. They could have done it under Obama too, because oversight was sorely lacking, but chose to just let him veto stuff. I hope they start doing this again under Trump because ... I like hearings where more than the chair and ranking member show up (plus even if it is a hearing on weather satellites replacement schedule a lot of really cool people show up and explain the system, mandates and laws that apply and what they need going forward, it can be a really informative discussion).

I wished for more random questions. But then again after about 80 debates anything not repetitive would have been a welcome change. There weren't any light questions like favorite type of cow, or open questions like what is 100$ or written questions like is it possible to lick a 9-volt battery until it is dead and if so how many licks would it take and show your work.

Anyway, I guess my main point is that this was not predictable or seen coming by the entire field of candidates. People well placed to know the whims and wants of the populations they sought to represent I figured had their ear to the ground and were likely tracking their race as steadfastly as anyone. And all running were answering with Hillary Clinton as President in mind. Perhaps they can know no better than us and rely on the same sources. But if anyone claims they saw this coming or it was inevitable is not to be believed. Also the launching of a personal TV channel ... not something that makes sense if you see the bully pulpit in the immediate future ... then again making sense doesn't preclude much.

This was a "fuck you" coalescence vote. Pick your target, yes, yes and yes ... and Trump was the outlet for the disdain. The only thing less popular than either candidate is Congress itself. And in sending the "fuck you" a lot of Republicans were pulled along. It is hard to look at the splay legged camel and pull a single straw off the pile and say, "this is the culprit".

Congress people will say, "Put 100 000 people in the Mall and I can get the votes." This isn't exactly true and protests can be ignored, but it is the basic premise that people can be brave when they know they have support. Suppressing the rebellion on the left didn't make it go away and by not embracing the clear goals, in a clearly stated manner, that people were ready to march and fight for, the Democratic Party asked people to suppress themselves and they heeded the call.

Keith Ellison. I love to rewind his sections in hearings. He starts low key. He asks seemingly innocuous questions, simple answer, your name, your position at the time, dates served, "yes yes look it up we want to be fair". Next he establishes facts. Again simple, boss, co workers, job description, responsibilities. Still head down, conciliatory "just want to make sure we're on the same page here" or complimentary "that sounds like a lot of responsibility" or what ever is needed. Ellison already knows all these answers. Once he has placed the person at the center of what he really wants to know. He springs the trap, there is no where for them to run. It is a beautiful thing to watch. And it works every single time. He is also good at leading friendly witnesses to tell their story in a coherent and impactful manner. There is probably some law training in the mix, but there are a lot of lawyers in Congress and he does this at a different level. Also once he is down to what he wants to know, nice evaporates and a schooling begins, although he can bring back nice and reset the trap while the person is still sitting there and drag them back through for another tussle. He is very perceptive has a fighting spirit and a keen sense of fairness. I like him very much.
posted by phoque at 12:02 PM on November 14, 2016 [18 favorites]

It's time to embrace it and make new myths, new visions, that can counteract the one that just won.

brothers and sisters, we will build Hammertruck Factory and there will be a job there for anyone who wants one
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:04 PM on November 14, 2016 [19 favorites]

You laugh, but that probably just got you more votes in certain areas than Clinton received
posted by Apocryphon at 12:06 PM on November 14, 2016 [2 favorites]

I'm seeing a few calls for specific mobilization against Bannon on my Facebook feed. Here's one post in specific that makes some concrete suggestions on how to fight this appointment. Excerpt:

Presidents have had to back down before, for comparatively minor reasons. (Some of us are old enough to remember Zoe Baird and Kimba Wood, Bill Clinton's two AG appointments, who had to withdraw for failing to pay Social Security taxes.) Let's not assume this is a done deal.
Let's do what we can to stop this. I have enclosed a list of actions below. Please feel free to add to this, especially those of you with organizing experience (some of whom I've tagged).

1) If you live in the US, call your Representatives and Senators and tell them this is unacceptable.
2) Paul Ryan is feigning ignorance again. Call his office at [phone] and let him know that this is not ok. Same with Majority Leader McConnell, [phone].
3) Call out the media when they report the Bannon appointment as a straight news story or refer to him as a "Breitbart executive" or a "provocateur," but don't call him what he is: a white supremacist, anti-semite, misogynist. Don't let them normalize.

A few other suggestions there too and she uses #stopbannon as the tag. I'm getting to work on this.
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:10 PM on November 14, 2016 [44 favorites]

Chili's Takes Meal From Black Veteran On Veterans Day Because Trump Supporter Complained

Because that's the world we live in now, that's why.
posted by corb at 12:11 PM on November 14, 2016 [43 favorites]

These are the people who pick up hammers, who drive trucks, who clean up and who built the country that we all live in.

Do they have bushy moustaches and trucker caps? I'm sure the non-white people who pick up hammers and drive trucks thank you for your embrace of the Looks Like Mike Ditka Theory of political authenticity, as well as those who clean toilets and scrub floors and slaughter pigs and pick lettuce and wait tables, which is what actual working-class jobs look like in 2016.

There are a number of "messaging" stories that can be told here, and some of them are less bullshitty than others: if we're in "symbolically but not literally territory" then you can just promise free healthcare and college and magic hammertruck factories and tell the fact-checkers to shut the fuck up. But at some point you veer into stories that fall apart, stories about relative status that aren't sustainable. There are people who want to pay $300 for a big TV and work at the big TV factory in Rustbeltia paying $22/hr. And there are people who want to hear a story where people not like themselves get back to "knowing their place" or just be disappeared.
posted by holgate at 12:14 PM on November 14, 2016 [21 favorites]

Well, the right thinks Donald Trump can [represent working class people].

It's up to us to do the right thing. It's up to us to provide the correct alternative. Real wages have to rise, we need to help people with education and healthcare. That's the bottom line.
posted by kuatto at 12:16 PM on November 14, 2016 [1 favorite]

There are thousands of voters who wanted to vote for Clinton (and downballot Dems) but were unable to due to structural and intentional disenfranchisement. And they don't all live in "coastal elite cities." I think my time is more valuable working to help those folks access the ballot box than convince a few white men to be a little less racist and misogynist. Every hour I spend trying to convince my dad to see women and POC as humans could be spent calling legislators, or registering voters, or driving people to the DMV to get ID, or escorting patients at Planned Parenthood. I'm not saying talking to Trump supporters is useless, but I find it to be an inefficient use of my time and believe other activities will yield greater results.
posted by melissasaurus at 12:17 PM on November 14, 2016 [69 favorites]

who built the country that we all live in

African American slaves built us into an economic superpower - for free!

Chinese immigrants worked on railroads

The NYC subway system was built largely by Italian immigrants who were undesirables at the time, but also by a large number of African Americans
posted by zutalors! at 12:18 PM on November 14, 2016 [40 favorites]

Every non-white, not-straight, not-christian american citizen just got viciously robbed by a hate-fueled smear-machine. (white women though, WHAT)

Whatever comes at me, a proportionate force multiplier shall be my response.
posted by Annika Cicada at 12:19 PM on November 14, 2016 [12 favorites]

I'm just nervously expecting lots of "we had to put the nice Muslim (or dark, close enough, shrug) family off the plane because a trumpie was nervous about other people" stories to start dropping soon.

that's been happening for years
posted by zutalors! at 12:20 PM on November 14, 2016 [9 favorites]

I'm just nervously expecting lots of "we had to put the nice Muslim (or dark, close enough, shrug) family off the plane because a trumpie was nervous about other people" stories to start dropping soon.

You don't even need to be dark. Just olive.
posted by Talez at 12:20 PM on November 14, 2016 [1 favorite]

It's up to us to do the right thing. It's up to us to provide the correct alternative. Real wages have to rise, we need to help people with education and healthcare. That's the bottom line.

Thank you. I've often wondered why no one on the left has said "You pay taxes. Yet a one medical emergency can but you in bankruptcy. Shouldn't your taxes be going to fund a single payer system, so you never, ever have to work about being financially hit because you have a cold? So that you never have to stay in a job you hate just for the health benefits?"
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:20 PM on November 14, 2016 [16 favorites]

Do you think that I was claiming to actually quote you?

I said nothing in the direction of 'with us or against us,' etc. I said nothing about being better than other mefites. and so forth.

you are not actually reading my comments and responding to them in an effort to engage with what I am actually saying

I am directly disputing the accuracy of what you're saying, at least the part of it that isn't pure opinion regarding HRC's personality, and you seem to think that's silencing and ridiculing you. It is not.

I find that disappointing given that the election is over and defending Clinton does not have the moral import that it had when she was the sole option besides the disaster that is Trump.

Then why does attacking her have the import that it did in the primaries?
posted by snuffleupagus at 12:21 PM on November 14, 2016 [2 favorites]

...I'm supporting a smear campaign? Again, Clinton lost already. You don't have to do this kind of knee-jerk "if you're not with us you're against us" thing anymore. She can't lose again, you know.

I don't care that much about Clinton. I do care about the people in Democratic politics doing the good work of building multi-ethnic coalitions across class lines on issues such as voting rights and poverty. Those people really don't need to be erased in the service of a revisionist cadaver synod of Clinton.

The mefi buble strikes me this last week as very much as a combination of circular firing squad and fantasy football. Other sites have been hosting discussions about bringing Barber's fusion coalition model to other cities and states, and reports from people actually doing that work. We can talk about how effective that activism was in converting votes this year, but denying that it even exists is beyond the pale here.

Frankly, a lot of people, including myself, likely need to logout from the circular firing squad and fantasy football and get connected. Read some Barber, Goodman, Moses, or Marx. Make friends with a church lady from one of your social justice churches.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 12:21 PM on November 14, 2016 [20 favorites]

White Hegemony extends beyond the locality that people live in.

Yes the Fordist state is dying or dead with most of the industry and an increasing percentage of population leaving for Sun Belt states (mainly because the south have typically been anti-union right-to-work states - thanks Republicans)

But if you are a WWC in a dying rust belt town or suburb you realize your kids aren't going to stay past college and they are going to leave to one of those thriving multicultural coastal cities.

They don't like that and they are making their displeasure known.

Of course their paroxysm of rage is actually going to result in the exact opposite of what they want. Their kids and grandkids are still going to be migrating to the urban spaces and Republicans will completely fail to bring back anything resembling industry in this country.

If the WWC had worked with Democrats in the 80s instead of abandoning the party for Reagan maybe there could've been a time where the long decline from the 70s could've been stopped but at this point those jobs that have been gone from the US for decades are even disappearing in low wage countries because robots are fast and efficient and just about the whole world depends on just in time manufacturing.
posted by vuron at 12:22 PM on November 14, 2016 [3 favorites]

Arguing the small scale tactics of the last election is a moot point now anyway.


From what I see, the left everywhere has been so busy arguing how we implement "Freedom and Justice For All" that nobody's been arguing why it is a good and necessary thing. This is a worldwide campaign that needs to be waged now, to convince hearts and minds that we should look after each other regardless of race or color or religion or sexual orientation.
posted by Zalzidrax at 12:23 PM on November 14, 2016 [2 favorites]

Wait, what, the party that had the most progressive party platform ever is somehow against the Working Class?

I mean, yes, you're absolutely right on substance, but that's not how some people see it. Some people see the whole long list of platform planks you listed and think "more regulations and taxes and I'll be worse off." Some of that is because they've been fed that message by a GOP propaganda machine and their bosses for decades. Some of it is because Democrats don't have a great economic message for people who don't care about the minimum wage because they make a fair bit more than it, but still haven't received a real raise in ages. Some of it is because they have employer-sponsored healthcare and so blame the premium increases they see on Obamacare, forgetting that they weren't new and have actually slowed down. And some of it is just a cultural thing involving out of touch elites.

Child care was supposed to be a big part of addressing this. It's something that could help even upper-middle class families in a tangible way. But that message got marginalized to the point I question how much it got through. Why was that? We can blame the media for focusing obsessively on Trump and emails and clouds over policy, but it also wasn't something the Clinton campaign really pushed in the debates and messaging, choosing largely to make it personal instead. Did it poll badly? Why wasn't it, along with a stronger jobs agenda, a real focus of the campaign?
posted by zachlipton at 12:23 PM on November 14, 2016 [9 favorites]

Today in "dumb things heard in locker rooms": People (like, older, adult people) aghast that there's going to be a student protest Wednesday night (way, way after hours, inconveniencing nobody). "Do you ever remember when it was this bad before? Was it this bad with Nixon?" ("This bad" meaning: some students are going to gather and yell a lot. Life on campus has been pretty much undisrupted thus far.) Holy shitballs do none of you remember past, like, last year? Gulf War? Iraq War? WTO? WE HOSTED THE G20 IN THIS VERY CITY NOT 5 YEARS AGO. No? Nothing? McFly?

I'm not usually a wake up sheeple kind of person but christ on a cracker, pay attention.
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:23 PM on November 14, 2016 [27 favorites]

The FBI would like you to know that reported hate crimes were up 7% in 2015, an increase of 67% for attacks against Muslim Americans and a sharp increase in attacks against transgender people. Many such crimes go unreported.
posted by zachlipton at 12:25 PM on November 14, 2016 [4 favorites]

WE HOSTED THE G20 IN THIS VERY CITY NOT 5 YEARS AGO.

G20 was 2009 so actually seven.
posted by Talez at 12:26 PM on November 14, 2016

Mod note: Feels like this is sort of going around in circles and verging again into relitigating primary stuff; Rock 'em Sock 'em, snuffleupagus, please go ahead and let this be at this point.
posted by cortex (staff) at 12:26 PM on November 14, 2016 [10 favorites]

G20 was 2009 so actually seven.

lol time flies when you're having fun!
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:28 PM on November 14, 2016 [4 favorites]

Male Trump Supporter Sucker-Punches Woman Who Disagrees With Him At Brooklyn Restaurant

But you know. Just another election, Dems are sore losers, business as usual, things will be back to normal in no time. I'm sure we just didn't try hard enough to reach out to this guy, we need to be more inclusive and listen more.
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 12:28 PM on November 14, 2016 [43 favorites]

Every hour I spend trying to convince my dad to see women and POC as humans could be spent calling legislators, or registering voters, or driving people to the DMV to get ID, or escorting patients at Planned Parenthood. I'm not saying talking to Trump supporters is useless, but I find it to be an inefficient use of my time

The thing is, all those things you listed that you would rather be doing are things that POC, physically in more danger than you, would also rather be doing, and have more physical safety needs around doing instead. White people, however, are the ones who are safest when having those conversations around other people seeing POC as human, and these conversations absolutely have to be done. Do you think that a world where 51% of the vote is safe for POC, but 49% are okay with still hating them, is a world it's safe for me or my kids to live in? Do you think that would make it okay to sit back and relax?

Let the POC do the registration, the driving, the calling. White people, talk to your families. You are the best positioned to do so, are the safest, and have the best chance of success.
posted by corb at 12:30 PM on November 14, 2016 [23 favorites]

Male Trump Supporter Sucker-Punches Woman Who Disagrees With Him At Brooklyn Restaurant

something something economic suffering
posted by entropicamericana at 12:30 PM on November 14, 2016 [8 favorites]

Male Trump Supporter Sucker-Punches Woman Who Disagrees With Him At Brooklyn Restaurant

Wow, I have been to that place many times. It's not out in Bensonhurst or something, it's right in tony gentrified Brooklyn
posted by zutalors! at 12:30 PM on November 14, 2016 [3 favorites]

Today a co-worker told me of how, somewhere in the suburbs around Philly, in a largely deserted gas station, a guy said because she had taken the gas pump that he was intending to use, was that she was "a Mexican bitch."

This woman, who is my hero today, said she asked him what he had said.

"You heard me," he said.

Then she laughed and laughed and laughed, because she had been in her car reading about how the idea that we were fooling ourselves terribly by saying that we live in "post racial" times.

He did this, he said this vile thing, because he had to wait a minute to gas up his car.

BTW she's not even Mexican. She's of African-Anglo ancestry.

And my thing today is this: I am going to get arrested as many times as I can this year in peaceful protests. I want, no some part of me NEEDS for a cop to shackle me and drag me out of my wheelchair.

Because I need to fight, goddamnit.

Also Bernie needs to STFU
posted by angrycat at 12:31 PM on November 14, 2016 [35 favorites]

Wait, what, the party that had the most progressive party platform ever is somehow against the Working Class?

[...] Some people see the whole long list of platform planks you listed and think "more regulations and taxes and I'll be worse off." Some of that is because they've been fed that message by a GOP propaganda machine and their bosses for decades. Some of it is because Democrats don't have a great economic message for people who don't care about the minimum wage because they make a fair bit more than it, but still haven't received a real raise in ages. Some of it is because they have employer-sponsored healthcare and so blame the premium increases they see on Obamacare, forgetting that they weren't new and have actually slowed down. And some of it is just a cultural thing involving out of touch elites.

Thank you, zachlipton. About as succinctly as it could be put.
posted by philip-random at 12:32 PM on November 14, 2016 [4 favorites]

Starting to think they want to "drain the swamp" to find the bodies to fill their administration.
posted by drezdn at 12:34 PM on November 14, 2016 [7 favorites]

that's been happening for years

and like half the time they're sikh or jain, or like, a mexican guy wearing a scarf because it's fucking cold on planes

or that italian guy who was absentmindedly doodling math equations on his way to prolly win a fields medal or something and a white lady said she saw him writing a terrorism

ugh everything is so terrible
posted by poffin boffin at 12:35 PM on November 14, 2016 [23 favorites]

One of the reasons why [Trump] won is that he's so slippery and self-contradictory

He's training us. He's showing us he has a good side and a bad side -- and wouldn't we rather be on his good side? He is training us to approach him deferentially and to be grateful for the least bit of humanity.
posted by dmh at 12:35 PM on November 14, 2016 [65 favorites]

I'm just nervously expecting lots of "we had to put the nice Muslim (or dark, close enough, shrug) family off the plane because a trumpie was nervous about other people" stories to start dropping soon.

that's been happening for years

That's what a lot of people talking about "Muslim ID laws" are missing.

You don't need new laws, generally. Things like that would come at the end of the process. You just need prejudice to be a little more tolerable, for people to be less willing (or more afraid) to speak up about it, for complaints to be more readily ignored. The discretionary approaches by authority - regular police, border police, immigration officials - are prime places for this, but the attitude can permeate all interactions. After a while, the people affected will learn that it's not even worth speaking up. To the extent that this isn't already normal (and for a lot of people in a lot of places, it is) it's something that was totally normal in living memory.

So it won't be a law that says "black people can't drive at night". It will just be a fact that police shootings are poorly investigated, rarely prosecuted, and hardly ever result in a conviction. You say that's the way things are already? Well, yes. That's how it's going to be.
posted by Joe in Australia at 12:35 PM on November 14, 2016 [10 favorites]

He's training us. He's showing us he has a good side and a bad side -- and wouldn't we rather be on his good side? He is training us to approach him deferentially and to be grateful for the least bit of humanity.

Jesus, that's a chilling thought. He's approaching the nation the way an abuser approaches his victim. I'm gonna quote this.
posted by Existential Dread at 12:39 PM on November 14, 2016 [32 favorites]

There are a bunch of cowardly Trump voters that seem to be using all sorts of violence (both direct and indirect) as a way of getting back at their SJW oppressors.

And it's typically done either with a mob or done to obviously easy to intimidate victims.

These bullies depend on other white males to either condone or stay passive. If you see these bullies target disadvantaged populations for violence and harassment get up and challenge them. Invariably most of them will back down although some might try to escalate.

As long as we don't allow for the normalization of violence against disadvantaged populations we can continue to push them back into the dark corners.
posted by vuron at 12:40 PM on November 14, 2016 [5 favorites]

Jesus, that's a chilling thought. He's approaching the nation the way an abuser approaches his victim.

Well yeah. The gaslighting was kind of a giveaway.
posted by Too-Ticky at 12:42 PM on November 14, 2016 [11 favorites]

What Canada Thinks Of You Threatening To Move There

Now, if you're a trans person or a Muslim or someone else who feels legitimately threatened by America's shifting political climate, or if you're terrified about the prospect of losing lifesaving health coverage, you'll find that Canada is a welcoming country. [...] But for everyone else -- and I really apologize for how harsh this is going to be -- Canada is not your fucking safety school.
posted by philip-random at 12:42 PM on November 14, 2016 [24 favorites]

Dare I say that the Democratic Party (and individuals inside and outside the party) need to embrace a diversity of tactics? Maybe we need to be, in a certain sense, all things to all people? The anti-Trump Popular Front can sheepdog white racists into anti-Trumpism by talking economics, while also working to win back voting rights for PoC, while also elevating the leadership of women and PoC, while also catering to "moderate" Republican-identified people with a line stressing "genuine conservatism" and Trump's betrayal of same?

We have no shared heroes, no shared agenda, and no shared message. All we have is one common goal.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 12:44 PM on November 14, 2016 [21 favorites]

everything he does is classic serial abuser shit. the whole "says a horrible thing/makes a horrible threat and then flatly denies that it ever happened, no matter how much evidence there is to the contrary" is textbook abusive gaslighting that is very very familiar to a whole lot of people, women in particular.
posted by poffin boffin at 12:44 PM on November 14, 2016 [61 favorites]

White people, talk to your families. You are the best positioned to do so, are the safest, and have the best chance of success.

I agree with you. But, for die-hard Trump supporters it literally will not work. You cannot make a sociopath have empathy. There is no getting through to the Steve Bannons of the world. He's not a unicorn; thousands of Trump voters are just like him. Yes, there are a lot of people who voted for Trump who could potentially be reached. Don't assume all of them can be. Some people have abusive sociopaths for parents. If someone doesn't care about their own child's wellbeing or emotions it's going to be hard for that person to understand why they should care about someone else's children.
posted by melissasaurus at 12:48 PM on November 14, 2016 [10 favorites]

I'm white but I literally don't know anyone who voted Trump, or at least not anyone who admits it (woot woot liberal bubble) so unless someone wants to start a Rent-A-Pinko service to evangelize to racists over dinner (will there be mashed potatoes? call me!) I'd rather focus my energies on being of whatever assistance I can to local marginalized and vulnerable communities.
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:49 PM on November 14, 2016 [9 favorites]

So I'm only dipping into this thread to make this comment as the current state of things is stressful enough without following along a 750+ comment post (though I may pop in later to see if there are any comments); and I'm only posting this as an observation and to share some, frustration, I guess?

I contacted my Senator today to express concern on the selection of Steve Bannon as chief strategist, using the strategy laid out at https://storify.com/editoremilye/i-worked-for-congress-for-six-years I was a little nervous so I typed up a statement to use for notes, and then called the local (state) office. A young lady answered and I introduced myself and launched into my spiel. Shen mostly reponded with "uh huh, okay" and then said "the Senator has no involvement with Administration staff Selection" I countered with "okay, well, can you pass on that I'd like to see the Senator "join Senator Harry Reid in denouncing this choice" and "publicly oppose a white supremacist from holding a position in the White House". She responded with "okay, I guess we'll pass on the message"

Frustrated, I called my Senator's Washington D.C. office, and got another young lady on the line. I gave the same speech, including acknowledging that the Senator has no direct involvement but taking a public stand would be appreciated. She, also, said "we will pass on your message"

Since I had typed up the notes, I did a bit of editing and sent the same statement off through the contact form on his website.

I share this as the whole experience felt a little disjointed, the message fell on somewhat deaf ears (or if not deaf, then uninterested ears) and that the message delivered won't convey my worry and concern about the direction things are going.

I will continue to pressure my Senator and Representative, but the experience really wasn't anything like I expected. Just wanted to share, and maybe get some reassurance from fellow MeFis.
posted by jazon at 12:50 PM on November 14, 2016 [26 favorites]

Well yeah. The gaslighting was kind of a giveaway.

Unfortunately, there's a whole lot of folks (like me!) who have never experienced this directly and don't know what it looks like. We're generally privileged (and white, and male) enough that we just look at it askance, but don't recognize the pattern for what it is. Thanks to folks here for the pointing the pattern out explicitly; I'm going to take that and use it on other folks who also don't make the connection right away.
posted by Existential Dread at 12:51 PM on November 14, 2016 [11 favorites]

I rather like what this Irish Politician said. Pity there aren't more politicians round the world like him.
posted by adamvasco at 12:51 PM on November 14, 2016

Unfortunately, there's a whole lot of folks (like me!) who have never experienced this directly and don't know what it looks like. We're generally privileged (and white, and male) enough that we just look at it askance, but don't recognize the pattern for what it is.

and a lot of us are told "this is what power and confidence looks like; this is the way to comport yourself if you want to be successful in life; this is how you treat women if you want to be attractive to them"
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:54 PM on November 14, 2016 [3 favorites]

He's training us. He's showing us he has a good side and a bad side -- and wouldn't we rather be on his good side? He is training us to approach him deferentially and to be grateful for the least bit of humanity.

You guys remember back in the halcyon summer when we thought Trump couldn't get elected, how his people were threatening #NeverTrump delegates who signed the petitions by saying "Trump will retaliate against your state" and we thought it was ridiculous because he would never get elected and who would do that anyway?

Yeeeeeeeah, about that....
posted by corb at 12:54 PM on November 14, 2016 [34 favorites]

There are a bunch of cowardly Trump voters that seem to be using all sorts of violence (both direct and indirect) as a way of getting back at their SJW oppressors.

I think the internet has largely failed as a medium for political discussion. I think some social justice discourse is a shit-show of flamewars over largely symbolic problems. But ...

1. Growing harassment is a problem overall. The alt-right is notorious for it.

2. I'm not going give up on LGBTQ politics because some overly-earnest person got in my virtual face over that Q or my use of the word "biphobia."

3. Milo and Thiel IMO are pretty clearly following the example of Sullivan of building careers blatant self-interest and trolling.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 12:56 PM on November 14, 2016 [1 favorite]

I rather like what this Irish Politician said. Pity there aren't more politicians round the world like him.

Video not available.
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:59 PM on November 14, 2016

Thank you, zachlipton. About as succinctly as it could be put.

Well thanks. I do think it points to a particular blind spot, that when people say "well what about WWC voters?" we point to a laundry list of policies that many such voters categorically reject as unhelpful if not condescending to them. Continuing to tell the people who just voted to repeal the ACA "but we gave you Obamacare, we're here to help you" is not an effective messaging strategy, especially not when every Democratic policy is instantly demonized as a socialist handout job killer as we all bow down in service to the all-mighty Job Creators. (When the hell did "bosses," who nobody likes, get re-branded as job creators anyway? It goes back at least to Nixon in the 50s.)

We keep teeing up big lists of policy and are getting shouted out of entire states for it. We shouldn't abandon those policies, they're largely good ones, but we can't keep marching into MI and OH with the same message and the same list of stuff anymore.
posted by zachlipton at 1:00 PM on November 14, 2016 [4 favorites]

We keep teeing up big lists of policy and are getting shouted out of entire states for it. We shouldn't abandon those policies, they're largely good ones, but we can't keep marching into MI and OH with the same message and the same list of stuff anymore.

One thing I haven't seen mentioned yet is the uneven demographic impact of depopulation and migration. Not like, post-Rome empty walls depopulation (although there are places in Detroit...) but, I mean -- you can't throw a pebble here in Chicago without hitting a Michigander or an Ohioan, many of whom moved here during and after the Great Recession (I'm one of them). In some ways the Midwest didn't get much redder (it did to some extent, of course) between '08 and now, but there was a significant cohort of people who moved away either to Chicago or to the South or the coasts.

And I would bet we were disproportionately left-of center young people, maybe disproportionately POC as well. In the great firing squad that is this week, I volunteer as symbolic hourly sacrifice for whatever timeslot is available.
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:08 PM on November 14, 2016 [7 favorites]

A WaPo blog comes to an interesting conclusion: As it turns out, James Comey is a great scapegoat for Hillary Clinton’s loss

In national exit polling conducted after last Tuesday, 6-in-10 voters said they didn't think Trump was qualified to be president. And yet one-fifth of those voters voted for him anyway.

Part of that is because of people who thought that neither candidate was qualified to be president. That group was 14 percent of the electorate, according to exit polls -- and they picked Trump by a more than 4-to-1 margin.

Clinton's final campaign pretty much came down to "Trump is unqualified." Many people agreed. Her mistake, all our mistake really, is that everybody thought that meant they wouldn't vote for him. It didn't stop them.
posted by zachlipton at 1:08 PM on November 14, 2016 [6 favorites]

I rather like what this Irish Politician said. Pity there aren't more politicians round the world like him.

Video not available.

Seanadóir (Senator) Aodhán Ó Ríordáin's video is available on facebook.
posted by knapah at 1:11 PM on November 14, 2016 [7 favorites]

to me, the Politic's Genious, it is clear we must choose between putting all poor whites to the sword and becoming Bull Connor But Socialist
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 1:14 PM on November 14, 2016 [1 favorite]

The great strength of Republicans is making a stink. Why can't we? Rebecca Solnit is leading the push back against Bannon:

Here's a concrete action a friend of a friend proposed: Friends, let's seek a tactical victory this week. Let's try to stop the Bannon appointment. Presidents have had to back down before, for comparatively minor reasons. (Some of us are old enough to remember Zoe Baird and Kimba Wood, Bill Clinton's two AG appointments, who had to withdraw for failing to pay Social Security taxes.) Let's not assume this is a done deal.
Let's do what we can to stop this. I have enclosed a list of actions below. Please feel free to add to this, especially those of you with organizing experience (some of whom I've tagged).

1) If you live in the US, call your Representatives and Senators and tell them this is unacceptable.

2) Paul Ryan is feigning ignorance again. Call his office at [phone] and let him know that this is not ok. Same with Majority Leader McConnell, [phone].

3) Call out the media when they report the Bannon appointment as a straight news story or refer to him as a "Breitbart executive" or a "provocateur," but don't call him what he is: a white supremacist, anti-semite, misogynist. Don't let them normalize.

4) Where protests are ongoing, make this the focus, with signs, chants, etc. Next week we can turn out attention to other things. But for now let's focus like a laser on this.

5) Let's get religious groups on board; maybe even mainstream business groups, like the Chamber of Commerce (202-659-6000).

6) Contact other people of influence--College presidents, high-profile coaches and anyone else who has a public megaphone.

We can do this. #stopbannon
posted by emjaybee at 1:16 PM on November 14, 2016 [29 favorites]

Trump's Transition Team Is Just Now Learning What a President Does

Immediately after Tuesday’s election, members of Trump’s team were given the task of readying the president-elect for his transition to the White House. But in the hours-long meetings that followed, outside advisors tasked with helping the team were horrified to learn just how little the people getting ready to run the federal government actually knew.

“They are blatantly unprepared and don’t really have any sort of plan at all so far,” our source told us. “The best illustration is there were no prepared policy statements or papers. Whereas in 2012 Romney’s team had hundreds of pages worth of federal policy transitions planned and written out, Trump’s team had (as of Wednesday) literally no pages.

posted by kirkaracha at 1:18 PM on November 14, 2016 [32 favorites]

Haha Trump stopped paying his policy bullpen back in like June and they all fucked off to more remunerative pastures.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:19 PM on November 14, 2016 [15 favorites]

From the Deadspin article, and of surprise to nobody: “Also his team’s grasp of federal powers is fairly paltry. They had hours long meetings with outside advisors to figure out what could and couldn’t be delegated to Pence, what the president could do unilaterally, etc. One of Trump’s advisors said as recently as last weekend that they were planning on what to do after the election with the assumption that Trump would lose, and had no real plan for a victory.”
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:20 PM on November 14, 2016 [5 favorites]

At least some of professional wrestling is unwilling to stand behind Trumpism.
posted by Etrigan at 1:23 PM on November 14, 2016 [4 favorites]

soren_lorensen: Haha Trump stopped paying his policy bullpen back in like June and they all fucked off to more remunerative pastures.

Exactly, and this needs a [TRUE] tag, lest this sound like a joke to people who weren't obsessively following the election cycle. This is quite literally exactly what happened. Trump has no policy because he mismanaged and stiffed the team he hired to develop it for him.

WP: Inside the collapse of Trump’s D.C. policy shop

Vanity Fair: TRUMP CAMPAIGN STAFFERS QUIT AFTER NOT GETTING PAID
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 1:24 PM on November 14, 2016 [34 favorites]

boy. I'm remembering all the times I laughed and laughed at CJ's incompetence. We laughed, together. Didn't we, metafilter friends? Remember how we laughed at the JCPL? Oh, silly JCPL, now let's laugh at DJT's incompetence some more.

also, forgot to mention that the thing that really freaked me out about my colleague's being attacked with racial epithets? Remember how this lion-hearted woman laughed and laughed at him?

He got angry. He got angry. Which speaks to how lion-hearted this woman was. as a POC, maybe this is familiar to her, you laugh (laugh!) at somebody being vile, and they get ANGRY?

And right now I feel like Dave Chappelle is sort of sorrowfully laughing at my white lady bewilderment.
posted by angrycat at 1:26 PM on November 14, 2016 [4 favorites]

At least some of professional wrestling is unwilling to stand behind Trumpism.

Styles is gone from CHIKARA too.
Mike Quackenbush's statement.
posted by sporkwort at 1:26 PM on November 14, 2016 [1 favorite]

and like half the time they're sikh or jain, or like, a mexican guy wearing a scarf because it's fucking cold on planes

or that italian guy who was absentmindedly doodling math equations on his way to prolly win a fields medal or something and a white lady said she saw him writing a terrorism

ugh everything is so terrible

Can't forget just talking 'not American'. Just watched a video of woman in SF who went off on another woman who was taking on her cellphone. I'll link if anyone wants to see it but it was pretty much what you can imagine. 'You're going to be deported now. You're stalking me with your 'talking'. And she went on and on.' Looks like other people started telling her to shut-up because she started saying and all of these other people are stalkers. She was also told pointedly that she was being filmed and it was going on the internet and just kept at it. The best part was when the woman she was harassing just calmly said 'I'm a citizen.' The woman looked taken aback for a moment before 'Well good for you then. You got in just under the wire'.
posted by Jalliah at 1:28 PM on November 14, 2016 [1 favorite]

Styles is gone from CHIKARA too.
Mike Quackenbush's statement.

I JUST POSTED THAT IN FANFARE HOW DARE YOU
[hits sporkwort with a chair]
posted by Etrigan at 1:30 PM on November 14, 2016 [2 favorites]

I will continue to pressure my Senator and Representative, but the experience really wasn't anything like I expected. Just wanted to share, and maybe get some reassurance from fellow MeFis.

Stay strong. "We will pass on your message" is basically exactly what you want to hear. There shouldn't be much back-and-forth.

I got the same "no involvement with staff selection" response on Twitter from a rando on our side. Like you, I learned today that it helps to make yourself clear that this is not about formal Congressional approval, it is about a representative going on record to send a message. If you have Democratic reps, this is about going on record against the normalization of white nationalism.

If you have Republican reps, take heart! "Uh huh, okay" is basically the worst possible thing staffers will tell you when you ask your senator to join with Harry Reid.

As corb said up above, it is helpful to mention that you share the same party affiliation as your senator/congressperson. If you can't explicitly say that, I found that you can at least present yourself as if you shared the same party affiliation. E.g., "The Republican party has always been the party of Lincoln, and that's why it will bother me so much to see Steve Bannon working in the White House. Although I understand that his appointment does not go through Congress, I'm asking Senator R to please go on the record in opposition to it. Steve Bannon is a white nationalist, and is not an appropriate choice for an inclusive party with high standards."

For real, thank you for calling. It does more for our cause than a hundred comments in this thread. I hope you will try it again!
posted by compartment at 1:30 PM on November 14, 2016 [36 favorites]

And I would bet we were disproportionately left-of center young people, maybe disproportionately POC as well. In the great firing squad that is this week, I volunteer as symbolic hourly sacrifice for whatever timeslot is available.

Y'all are good. Keep on moving out, and moving to Madison and Milwaukee and metro Detroit. Come 2020, these white-folks counties are gonna be a little less populated, and come 2024 MI, WI, and PA are getting hit with the reapportionment hammer. Maybe if enough of y'all move to metro Chicago you can keep IL from losing a seat.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 1:32 PM on November 14, 2016 [1 favorite]

Can't forget just talking 'not American'.

them: you need to learn the language if you're gonna live here!
me: *looks right into the camera*
posted by poffin boffin at 1:36 PM on November 14, 2016 [5 favorites]

Following his meeting last week with President-elect Donald Trump, President Obama decided he needed to spend more time than a president typically would guiding Trump's transition to the White House, according to a Sunday Wall Street Journal report.

And this is how Obama is going to earn his Nobel Peace Prize.
posted by ocschwar at 1:36 PM on November 14, 2016 [19 favorites]

That press conference, can Obama be dictator for life?
posted by Talez at 1:38 PM on November 14, 2016 [1 favorite]

Clinton's final campaign pretty much came down to "Trump is unqualified." Many people agreed. Her mistake, all our mistake really, is that everybody thought that meant they wouldn't vote for him. It didn't stop them.

Looking at the numbers of votes the last three Republican candidates got (McCain: 59,948,323; Romney: 60,933,504; Trump: 60,371,193) it seems, to me at least, to show that essentially the Republican vote is a constant block that will vote for their candidate no matter what, regardless of how terrifingly incompetent and staggeringly unpleasant they are.

Which suggests the Democratic campaigns probably shouldn't even bother trying to win the centre ground, or turn moderate Republican's to their cause, because they essentially don't exist, and that their real fight each election will be to get as many as possible of their own voters engaged enough to vote (for example some of the ten million Obama voters that seem to have evaporated over the years).

I know that's easier to type than actually do, obviously, and also even just admitting that there's this huge section of American society you can't and won't ever reach feels like a betrayal of liberal and progressive ideals and the idea of an inclusive society. But if 60 million people can bring themselves to vote for Trump despite, essentially, everything about him being against the supposed values the various factions of the Republican Party claim to hold dear, purely because he's their party's nominee, than you've got to basically look at it and say that there's nothing you could ever do, no candidate you could ever put up, that will cause them to change their mind.
posted by dng at 1:39 PM on November 14, 2016 [24 favorites]

oschwar welcome to the thread http://www.metafilter.com/163399/The-nation-that-destroys-its-soil-destroys-itself-after-the-US-election#6809086
posted by morspin at 1:40 PM on November 14, 2016

D'oh. Maybe I shouldn't skim so much.
posted by ocschwar at 1:43 PM on November 14, 2016

The Daily Kos's Stephen Wolf: Republicans now dominate state government, with 32 legislatures and 33 governors

Following the 2014 midterm wave, Republicans dominated state legislatures at a rate not seen since the Civil War. Democrats had hoped to rebound in 2016, but thanks in part to Trump’s resilience and widespread Republican gerrymandering, they only made modest gains. Democrats flipped four chambers, but lost control of three, leaving Republicans in charge of 68 state legislative chambers and Democrats just 31.

The above map illustrates the balance of legislative power in state legislatures nationwide. Republicans control both chambers in 32 states, including 17 with veto-proof majorities. Those 32 states cover 61 percent of the U.S. population. Democrats, meanwhile, control the legislature in just 13 states, amounting to 28 percent of the country’s population; only four of those chambers have veto-proof majorities.

With a firm grip on the presidency, Congress, and soon the Supreme Court, Republicans have won more political power in 2016 than in any election since at least 1928, when Herbert Hoover was elected to the White House. Democrats now face a deep hole they need to climb out of to fight back against the coming reactionary policy shift of the pending Trump administration and its allied state governments.

posted by Rustic Etruscan at 1:43 PM on November 14, 2016 [2 favorites]

I will continue to pressure my Senator and Representative, but the experience really wasn't anything like I expected. Just wanted to share, and maybe get some reassurance from fellow MeFis.

I also called my reps this morning. But I had a positive experience (but they're Dems, so more receptive to the message). I just had a short script to the effect of:

Me: Hi, I'd like to make a comment to [the Senator/etc] about Steve Bannon, is that something you can help me with?
Them: [either yes, or they transfer you]
Me: Ok great, My name is [name], I live in [state/county/town/whatevs] and I'd like to urge [the Senator/etc] to publicly denounce [or join Harry Reid in publicly denouncing] the appointment of Steve Bannon, a prominent white nationalist, as Chief Strategist to Donald Trump.
Them: Ok, we'll pass it on
Me: I'd like a response from [the Senator], if possible. [give email or mailing address, depending on what they want]. Thanks so much for your help!

I plan on using this script for my daily calls, tweaking as needed for the issue. I wrote down the names of the people who answered the phone at the local office, so I can keep track and establish a rapport (as I'll be calling them every day).
posted by melissasaurus at 1:44 PM on November 14, 2016 [113 favorites]

Trump has spoken by phone with Putin, Kremlin says

I'm so old I remember when we didn't find out about conversations between POTUS and world leaders from the Kremlin
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 1:44 PM on November 14, 2016 [20 favorites]

Don't take this as a rational suggestion, but maybe what the Democrats can do is to be really, really angry. I don't refer to the reasoned, more academic type of anger that exists in opinion pieces and newspapers; not even the productive anger that makes one inclined to call and send e-mails to their congresspeople. I'm referring to the formless, vindictive, indiscriminate anger that Trump supporters - particularly, online alt-right people - use.

They've gained recognition and support from a lot of people because anger feels right. They said : "There's something wrong in our country, and this is the set of issues and people that are causing it."-and people listened. People listened and became vindicted upon their belief because they feel angry.

I'm not an USian, but as someone whose parents and grandparents have been active in the underground left movement in a country that had a history of massacring and killing leftists at least until before 2000, those kind of anger sometimes is needed when the situation becomes intolerable. What do you do when the government kills its own citizens? Maybe in the U.S. it's not the killings that are perpetrated by the military, but indirect killings by policies and apathy and hate. So, faced with that, some of us hate, very deeply. And be angry. The kind of anger that makes people burn cars, confront bigots/exploitators physically, storm the government buildings, throw rocks and molotovs, whatever it takes - that lets people know that what has happened and still happening are monstrous, massively unjust, tyrannical and in the U.S. case, racist, bigoted and utterly absurd.

The alt-right and Trump supporters have already abandoned ethics in all manners of kind - in campaigning, in their news and in their online activities - and now escalate to violence in the streets, more overt discrimination in everyday life, etc to the point where POC and non-white people don't feel safe. Shouldn't people whom the hate is directed to, also others who support them, be furious? Not just trading barbs in family meetings, mind you.

They said don't do what your enemies have done to you. But why not? Drown them with hate back, anger and confront them when they attack. Don't just put symbols over one's clothes that primarily functions more as a feel-good trinket upon which one could be satisfied with their efforts to combat bigotry - no, but fight them physically whenever they act. Fuck moderation. I'm not saying to beat up Trump supporters without cause in the street, but when one has the gall to punch someone in the face, they already gives up the right to not be responded, in kind, back. It's about sending a message.

Speaking from my personal experience, as someone who is relatively young but is pretty deep into practical politics here, as much as I want rational discussions in which voters can vote for their own interest and be more informed and other things of that note, I realized a bit of time ago that anger is a very useful tool and using that is not dishonorable. And it's effective - just not that long ago we won an election using that kind of tactics.

I guess this is why it's great to see national demonstrations all over the U.S. these past few days - showing that people are restless, angry and not at all content with what has transpired. But that's not enough and when push comes to shove, would people of leftist persuasion take the arms, metaphorically and literally?
posted by tirta-yana at 1:50 PM on November 14, 2016 [15 favorites]

WaPo: If you voted for Trump because he’s ‘anti-establishment,’ guess what: You got conned
posted by Joe in Australia at 1:52 PM on November 14, 2016 [16 favorites]

You know you are through the looking glass when this greentext is one of the most popular things on 4chan - and that mefi will agree with its sentiments (imgur link - no link to scum, no racism, sexism etc)
posted by lalochezia at 1:52 PM on November 14, 2016 [20 favorites]

I'm so old I remember when we didn't find out about conversations between POTUS and world leaders from the Kremlin

It's a weird pattern, RobotVoodooPower. When Trump and other world leaders have communicated, he seems to always let all the other side make the announcement and discuss the details. (He also has yet to hold a formal press conference since the election results, but he stopped doing that during the campaign.)
posted by Doktor Zed at 1:53 PM on November 14, 2016

really stupid procedural question: is the job that Bannon's taking the type of cabinet appointment that can be filibustered?
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 1:58 PM on November 14, 2016 [1 favorite]

Well, I missed it, so. I don't know. Good? Let me say, rather, the worst yet. I missed her so much the last few weeks. Now she's gone forever. I hate this year, and I don't think I'm going to like the next one.
posted by Don Pepino at 2:01 PM on November 14, 2016

really stupid procedural question: is the job that Bannon's taking the type of cabinet appointment that can be filibustered?

No. It's not a cabinet appointment subject to confirmation, but an advisor, who can be pretty much anyone.

I suppose it would be moderately interesting to ask the legal hypothetical of what happens if Congress passes a law declaring that Bannon cannot be a government employee or something equally weird, but people would start screaming about separation of powers. Ultimately, the President is generally entitled to choose his own advisors.
posted by zachlipton at 2:01 PM on November 14, 2016 [3 favorites]

No. And I'm almost happy he has it, because it makes getting impeachment fodder that much more likely and easy.
posted by ocschwar at 2:01 PM on November 14, 2016 [2 favorites]

So, from the top two WaPo articles right now, we learn that:

1. Obama is reassuring everyone that NATO won't dissolve under rump: Meeting the press for first time since Trump’s win, Obama says new president-elect is committed to NATO, and

2. The Kremlin is reassuring everyone that rump is committed to improving relations w/ Russia: Trump, Putin agree in phone call to improve ‘unsatisfactory’ relations between their countries, Kremlin says.

I am really disturbed by the juxtaposition of those headlines... and the fact that everyone is apparently speaking for rump's foreign policy agenda but rump himself.
posted by Westringia F. at 2:02 PM on November 14, 2016 [8 favorites]

Yea Bannon is like professional buddy friend
posted by zutalors! at 2:03 PM on November 14, 2016 [2 favorites]

Mod note: Trump has spoken by phone with Putin, Kremlin says

"I've never spoken with Putin."
fake
posted by kirkaracha (staff) at 2:05 PM on November 14, 2016

WaPo: If you voted for Trump because he’s ‘anti-establishment,’ guess what: You got conned

It's almost like he's a salesman!

We should be worried when Putin wants a particular person for President, right?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 2:05 PM on November 14, 2016 [4 favorites]

I think theoretically the Congress could make Counselor to the President an advise and consent position (the Constitution allows them to vest appointment solely in the President for inferior officers), but I don't see it happening. It would also presumably only impact his official position, the President can listen to whatever advice he wants.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 2:07 PM on November 14, 2016

I am really disturbed by the juxtaposition of those headlines... and the fact that everyone is apparently speaking for rump's foreign policy agenda but rump himself.

We are in a power vacuum. It is a time of unbelievable uncertainty and there are very deep, core bedrock principles of our country being tested right now.

The transition of power is scary as fuck in normal years, this is completely fucking unprecedented.
posted by Annika Cicada at 2:07 PM on November 14, 2016 [8 favorites]

um. Obama does know the man lies more then otherwise, right?

but then, this may be #1 on O's list of "preventing the collapse of the country." Shrieking doom and gloom to NATO about rump I guess wouldn't aid global security.

Can you imagine the trade-off Obama's had to make? "Okay, I won't be all public about the fact that Nazis are in the West Wing if there's the slightest chance that rump will call me to bounce this wacky notion of lobbing a stray nuke"

I mean, I agree I guess with that calculation but jeez I wonder if he's smoked at all.
posted by angrycat at 2:09 PM on November 14, 2016 [4 favorites]

If people want to categorically put asterisks by exit poll data for now, then that really is fine, I am not being the least bit sarcastic. And yet...the story is pretty plain no more how many sources you consult. The narrative remains consistent, to a certain extent: Trump held traditional Republican demographics, whereas Clinton lagged behind Obama 2012 with regard to the youth vote and the non-white vote. Women generally preferred Clinton, but the difference wasn't all that striking when compared to, say, Romney vs. Obama. If the focus is on the Democrats as a multi-racial coalition, then a lot of work needs to be done. Regarding WWC outreach, a lot of it looks out outreach to many other people: skipping Wisconsin fucks you over on all fronts.

I mean, maybe the exit polls regarding Hispanic voters are flawed...but there isn't a whole lot of evidence that Hispanics, as a bloc, had been especially repulsed by Trump, or especially fond of Clinton, as compared with 2008 and 2012.

The biggest lessons for Dem leadership, IMNSHO: one, there are no firewalls, and two, Always Be Closing. You cannot assume that people will feel the way you do, will share your passion, etc.
posted by Sticherbeast at 2:09 PM on November 14, 2016 [3 favorites]

okay. so "stop Bannon" isn't a possibility.

Where's the first hill to fight on? What's the first thing that a Senate filibuster could conceivably block?
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 2:09 PM on November 14, 2016 [1 favorite]

will calling him 'rump' be even more effective that 'Drumpf'
posted by beerperson at 2:10 PM on November 14, 2016 [12 favorites]

Thank you for that script, melissasaurus. It got me through phone calls to my senators' offices, one Republican and one centrist Democrat. Both went fine. We'll see if either publicly denounce Bannon.
posted by jedicus at 2:11 PM on November 14, 2016 [3 favorites]

Oh come on let me believe in that Joe Biden meme and enjoy it for a day
posted by angrycat at 2:11 PM on November 14, 2016 [3 favorites]

Hillary Clinton: Are you fucking kidding me? [fake]
posted by Mchelly at 2:12 PM on November 14, 2016 [10 favorites]

> We are in a power vacuum.

Ordinarily I would parse "power vacuum" as "absence of power" but it occurs to me that "thing that sucks with unimaginable force" works equally well.
posted by Westringia F. at 2:13 PM on November 14, 2016 [14 favorites]

I think expressing our opposition to Bannon to our elected officials is an important first "show of force" -- it's saying "we're here, we're ready to fight, please use your platform to amplify our voice." I fully expect Bannon to stay, but I want my reps to know that I'm not happy about it. I want them to know how I feel about every action that Trump takes. I want the Trump transition to be very uncomfortable for Congress and state governments.
posted by melissasaurus at 2:15 PM on November 14, 2016 [28 favorites]

I am really disturbed by the juxtaposition of those headlines... and the fact that everyone is apparently speaking for rump's foreign policy agenda but rump himself.

Trump's a snake-oil salesman out of his depth: He's going to tell his immediate interlocutor whatever they want to hear and then move on to the next meeting where he'll adjust his patter accordingly.

And that's not even accounting for his propensity for lying, which is so egregious that his own lawyers couldn't rely on him in one-on-one meetings:

In fact, one of those lawyers, New Jersey casino specialist Patrick McGahn, once described how he and Trump's fellow counsels always met with Trump in pairs because of Donald's propensity for lying. "We tried to do it with Donald always if we could, because Donald says certain things and then has a lack of memory."

Imagine how that's going to go down in sensitive negotiations of any kind, international or domestic.
posted by Doktor Zed at 2:16 PM on November 14, 2016 [17 favorites]

WaPo: SEC chair to step down, clearing path for Trump to eliminate tough Wall Street regulations
posted by Westringia F. at 2:17 PM on November 14, 2016 [1 favorite]

Contact Your Representatives
posted by PenDevil at 2:17 PM on November 14, 2016 [1 favorite]

What is this nonsense now? SEC chair to step down, clearing path for Trump to eliminate tough Wall Street regulations
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:17 PM on November 14, 2016 [1 favorite]

an analysis of donald trumps election win and the prospects for his presidency
posted by poe at 2:18 PM on November 14, 2016 [1 favorite]

Just came in to post a spark from Ursula K. Le Guin:

"We live in capitalism, its power seems inescapable – but then, so did the divine right of kings. Any human power can be resisted and changed by human beings."

posted by weston at 2:18 PM on November 14, 2016 [26 favorites]

Actually this all seems very befitting of a monarchy changeover, down to the horrors involved and complete restructuring.
posted by corb at 2:20 PM on November 14, 2016 [2 favorites]

William Kristol, and now also Glenn Beck, are against Bannon. I am not sure how, exactly to process this. 2016, I guess.
posted by Cookiebastard at 2:20 PM on November 14, 2016 [9 favorites]

So there's that one really massive Harry Potter fanfiction that starts off okay but then gets kind of... awful... whatsitcalled, Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality.

One of the first things that the supergenius asshole Harry Potter in Methods of Rationality realizes is that if everyone else is avoiding using the name of He Who Must Not Be Named, he should probably avoid it too, cause he's in a magical world where the use of someone's name might trigger magical effects. In the real Harry Potter books, Potter says "Voldemort" left and right, just to prove how independent and rebellious he is — and it kind of bones him, since, yup, he's in a magical world where the use of a name can trigger effects, and it turns out Voldemort had rigged up a spell that basically allowed him to track all mentions of his name — a sort of wizarding grep set to search for the string "Voldemort." And so each time Potter rebelliously used the name, he was revealing his location to the name's bearer.

Back to the real world — I think the time for deforming his name to make funnies is past, but, well, I regret using his name in this thread. Not because I think it invites more surveillance — we're on the internet, everything is always already surveilled — but because it makes me sick at heart to use it.

Let's follow Michelle Obama's lead and just avoid using the name altogether. No deformations, no references to what his grandfather's name was before he changed it. Just avoid it. Everyone will know who you're talking about, anyway, because every conversation's going to be about him for a very, very long time.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 2:20 PM on November 14, 2016 [23 favorites]

but it occurs to me that "thing that sucks with unimaginable force" works equally well.

I know right, I typically think of power vacuum as "no assigned leader anymore, people are rushing in to take control" but in this case it's "dangerously ill-prepared and incompetent leader, people are moving in to take control" that is creating the current power vacuum.
posted by Annika Cicada at 2:20 PM on November 14, 2016 [2 favorites]

Imagine how that's going to go down in sensitive negotiations of any kind, international or domestic.

According to one account, Gulf War I started partly because the Bush administration sent mixed messages to Iraq over U.S. willingness intervene with Kuwait, the verdict being that Gulf War I may have been avoidable if U.S. diplomats had shot down Hussein's hypothetical trial balloon while it was still hypothetical.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 2:21 PM on November 14, 2016 [8 favorites]

will calling him 'rump' be even more effective that 'Drumpf'

Calling him 'Trump' will be more effective than either, because it indicates you're an adult who argues rationally.
posted by rocket88 at 2:24 PM on November 14, 2016 [28 favorites]

I actually think the worst thing I can call him is "President Trump", because there is a pretty serious bathetic drop there at the end
posted by thelonius at 2:25 PM on November 14, 2016 [5 favorites]

Google’s top news link for ‘final election results’ goes to a fake news site with false numbers (WaPo)
posted by tirta-yana at 2:26 PM on November 14, 2016 [6 favorites]

Calling him 'Trump' will be more effective than either, because it indicates you're an adult who argues rationally.

I'mma keep going with "President-elect Poopie-face" for a bit anyway.
posted by Cookiebastard at 2:29 PM on November 14, 2016 [8 favorites]

Apparently the Trump folks are asking how his children (you know, the ones who are supposed to be off running the business) can get top secret security clearances.

But come on and read My Fair Trump:

Obama: (finishes a long PowerPoint as Biden hums the last bars of “Ashokan Farewell”) … and that was what Abraham Lincoln did.
Trump: A civil war, huh?
Obama: Yes.
Trump: So that’s where those little red flags come from, with the blue X’s.
Obama: Yes. And that is why they have such a complex racist history.
Trump: I thought it was, like, a country music thing.
Obama: (too cheerfully) Never too late to learn!
Trump: (beat) Who was Alexander Hamilton, by the way? I keep hearing his name. Was he some sort of a rapper?
Obama: He was the first secretary of the treasury.
Trump: (writes, in big squiggly letters) Secretary. Of. The. Treasury.
Obama: That’s another Cabinet post you’re going to need to fill.
Trump: Not another one.
Obama: You have to fill ALL of them.
Trump: You’re kidding me.
Obama: Nope.
Trump: Gosh.
Obama: Yup.
Trump: Okay. (beat) How many of them are there?
Obama sighs and hands Biden $50.

posted by zachlipton at 2:29 PM on November 14, 2016 [44 favorites]

Thanks for the script, melissasaurus, I'll use it next time.

The Senator I called was a Democrat, which is why the cool response was so odd for me. Next time I'll be better prepared. Thanks to the reassurances, I'll keep it up (and maybe even try to call my Republican Senator as well).
posted by jazon at 2:34 PM on November 14, 2016 [5 favorites]

I want to address something, in the talking-to-your-relatives thing; I've seen in more than one place, in response to liberals saying "Not my president!" other people saying "Now you know how WE felt for 8 years!"

And I don't have a comeback because while I can point to very concrete things this presidency will do to my country that are bad, they point to wholly illusory (or completely misunderstood) things the bad black President man did to their country. And I'm sure they think I'm as wrong about their guy as they are about mine.

How do I pierce that backwards mirror/my truth is same as yours logic? Or get past it at least?

I mean, Obama was not a perfect president, and I would always agree with that, but the false-equivalency thing is a nearly bulletproof argument dodge. I say X bad thing their guy admits to doing, they throw out X bad thing Breitbart said Obama did.

I know there's no magic bullet to win people over, but I want to disrupt this argumentative gambit somehow. I never took debate or rhetoric, so if anyone has some idea, I'd appreciate it.
posted by emjaybee at 2:35 PM on November 14, 2016 [20 favorites]

Whereas in 2012 Romney’s team had hundreds of pages worth of federal policy transitions planned and written out, Trump’s team had (as of Wednesday) literally no pages.

This is the kind of thing that gives me hope. There's going to be a lot of normalizing of bullying, a lot of cruelty, a lot of threats... but they don't actually have a plan to make any changes, and all that takes time. There is no big Binder Of All The Laws with "OBAMACARE" on page 437 that he can just tear out and throw away.

As I gather from some reports, they weren't even aware they had to hire their entire set of support staff. So they'll need to be conducting interviews and doing background checks on top of doing policy work.

My daughter recommends flooding their "help wanted" section with applications. Every liberal resume they have to wade through is one more chance that they get tired and just hire the next three people who have experience in the topic they're looking for.

Let's follow Michelle Obama's lead and just avoid using the name altogether.

This is my plan. Unless I'm quoting something, I can call him "the president-elect" or "the Republican candidate" or something like that. Later, I can call him "the president" - because as much as he wanted the title, he wanted it attached to his name. He doesn't just want to be the 45th guy to have the most stressful job in the country.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 2:37 PM on November 14, 2016 [11 favorites]

But come on and read My Fair Trump:

I knew this was gonna be Alexandra Petri before I even clicked on it and I am reminded that all good in this world is not yet extinguished.
posted by prize bull octorok at 2:37 PM on November 14, 2016 [5 favorites]

henceforth, the big orange talking yam shall be known to me as Fondle Rump.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 2:39 PM on November 14, 2016 [2 favorites]

No matter how you choose to refer to him in the future, just remember to always append 'Loser of the Popular Vote' on there somewhere.
posted by Atom Eyes at 2:39 PM on November 14, 2016 [14 favorites]

always append 'Loser of the Popular Vote' on there somewhere.

The beautiful thing here is, if you append that to nothing, you can just call him "Loser of the Popular Vote".
posted by Annika Cicada at 2:41 PM on November 14, 2016 [13 favorites]

emjaybee, I have the same problem. I have to remind myself constantly that it's not worth arguing with my mom: anything I say breezes through her brain but whatever poppycock her bosses bleat out sticks. It just pains me when she says crap like "But I thought George Bush was FOR stem cell research!" or as of yesterday, "Why does Obamacare have to be so expensive? Why can't it be cheap?" She asks me to point out facts, I do, she blows them off or forgets them. Not to mention, "Hillary LIES! Why can't we have someone who's honest?" Right-oh, and Trump is the essence of truth now? She didn't vote for and doesn't like Trump, but now she's all, "Give him a chance!"

It's so frustrating because for once she didn't vote Republican and then somehow I keep thinking "oh, I can talk to her about this like a normal person," but then she's all, "I don't get why the relatives are still crying after DAYS." And when I try to say things like "think of how many people are gonna DIE with no health insurance," I get that crap parroted from her bosses about how expensive it was.
posted by jenfullmoon at 2:41 PM on November 14, 2016 [4 favorites]

I want to address something, in the talking-to-your-relatives thing; I've seen in more than one place, in response to liberals saying "Not my president!" other people saying "Now you know how WE felt for 8 years!"

If all #notmypresident means is "I really think it was a bad idea to elect Trump", then maybe just stick to saying that and saying what policies Trump supports that you think are a bad idea, and what policies the people he seems to trust have that are bad ideas. I really don't think you can avoid the obvious reply of "now you know how we felt for the last 8 years", or defeat it by showing how the circumstances aren't parallel if what you lead with is an obviously untrue slogan that seems to be disregard reality.
posted by skewed at 2:43 PM on November 14, 2016 [2 favorites]

What if we split the difference. How about we talk to people who did vote for Obama, at one or both elections, but either didn't vote for Clinton or didn't vote at all this year? Maybe that'd be more fruitful, and less frustrating.
posted by Apocryphon at 2:44 PM on November 14, 2016 [3 favorites]

LPV! One letter off from HPV!
posted by angrycat at 2:45 PM on November 14, 2016

"Now you know how WE felt for 8 years!"
And I don't have a comeback ... How do I pierce that backwards mirror/my truth is same as yours logic? Or get past it at least?

Possible talking points:
Did Obama say it was okay to grab women by the pussy? What did he say that you thought was that offensive? The president elect is on record saying, "Women... you have to treat them like shit." What group did Obama say that about?

Did Obama call any of your friends rapists? What group did he say that about?

Did Obama call assault and battery (attacks on protesters at rallies) "passionate" and say he wished there were more of it?

When did Obama advocate torture? Which race did he say shouldn't be handling his money? What medical procedures did Obama try to ban?

Get specific. Take any frightening statement or action of the pres-elect, and ask when Obama said the same thing, or something equivalent.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 2:46 PM on November 14, 2016 [33 favorites]

I really don't think you can avoid the obvious reply of "now you know how we felt for the last 8 years", or defeat it by showing how the circumstances aren't parallel if what you lead with is an obviously untrue slogan that seems to be disregard reality.

I agree with this. Getting into specifics is the discussion you want to have. If the conversation remains "I like this guy/well I like this guy" it doesn't go anywhere. Anytime they try to divert by bringing up Obama or Clinton, remind them "he's not going to be president anymore and she never will be, so we have to talk about Trump."

I especially encourage you to go directly to topics that you know they feel strongly about - like Paul Ryan's Medicare plans if that impacts them or people they care about.
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:46 PM on November 14, 2016 [2 favorites]

How about reminding them that at no point did Obama attempt to voucherize Medicare? Follow up by asking them where they plan to get $20,000 a year, the estimated out of pocket amount for seniors once Medicare is voucherized.

That's going to be my talking point going forward, at least until I get to my late sixties/early seventies and have to shoot myself because I can no longer physically work but can't afford to retire.
posted by Frowner at 2:49 PM on November 14, 2016 [26 favorites]

The Jewish Vote 2016
posted by Joe in Australia at 2:49 PM on November 14, 2016

The thing I keep thinking about is that what my Mom was afraid of with Obama was all fictional -

He's a secret Muslim
He's the antichrist
His healthcare plan will lead to death panels

So I think I'll try to gently point out that I'm worried about stuff the Republican candidate (loser of the popular vote) actually said he would do and said he believes.
posted by hilaryjade at 2:50 PM on November 14, 2016 [7 favorites]

How about...'when the kkk has a victory parade cuz your guy wins maybe it's just time to shut the fuck up and reflect a little.'
posted by ian1977 at 2:52 PM on November 14, 2016 [33 favorites]

Hamilton Nolan: What It's Like To Wake Up And Find Yourself Working For Donald Trump:

We obtained the following email, which a State Department official working abroad sent to some colleagues last week, after the results of the election became clear. Though it is only one voice, it is illuminating.

Although you signed up to be foreign service officers no matter which party took power (and there undoubtedly would have been a time when the Republicans held the White House), you didn’t sign up for the ignorant, misogynistic, homophobic, racist and fascist bullshit that Trump promulgated during his campaign.

posted by palindromic at 2:52 PM on November 14, 2016 [9 favorites]

How about...'when the kkk has a victory parade cuz your guy wins maybe it's just time to shut the fuck up and reflect a little.'

3 hours later, a link to an article about Robert Byrd shows up in your inbox
posted by prize bull octorok at 2:55 PM on November 14, 2016 [15 favorites]

He's a secret Muslim
He's the antichrist
His healthcare plan will lead to death panels

Obama told the truth and they insisted he was lying.
Trump says what he believes and they insist he is lying.

Thus, the secret is to be like George Costanza and say the opposite of what you actually mean and then they'll believe what you're not saying.
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:55 PM on November 14, 2016 [3 favorites]

I want to address something, in the talking-to-your-relatives thing; I've seen in more than one place, in response to liberals saying "Not my president!" other people saying "Now you know how WE felt for 8 years!"

I've taken to just ignoring my trumpy relatives, but they're all aunts and uncles and cousins I don't have to see in person.

You could try "The difference is that I'm still proud of a lot of things Obama did, and proud of voting for him, but you're going to regret your vote when he doesn't bring the jobs back or do any of the other things he promised you, and you're probably going to be ashamed of voting for him ten years from now."
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 2:55 PM on November 14, 2016

3 hours later, a link to an article about Robert Byrd shows up in your inbox


Fucking EXACTLY, mentioning that David Duke/the KKK supports Trump is going to get you absolutely NOWHERE with anyone who wasn't already convinced. This is why you find a set of things that Trump has specifically promised or supported, and talk about why you don't like that. Unless it's a pro-choice issue, or your relatives are actual white nationalists, the stuff that Trump has said isn't very palatable even to mainline conservatives. Now that the democrats have lost, you don't have to defend them, you can just point out what you don't like about what the Republicans have actually specifically said they're doing. And if your relatives still say that all that is still better than the democrats, you can be comfortable saying it's not a matter of policy then, it's just a matter of teams.
posted by skewed at 3:08 PM on November 14, 2016 [2 favorites]

Bottom line is that, policy aside, racism aside, Trump called for foreign hackers to meddle in our election, advocated for political violence, and pointedly refused to respect the outcome of the election if it wasn't in his favor. None of these can be valid positions in a free and democratic country.

He is a mortal threat to democracy and freedom.
posted by Zalzidrax at 3:09 PM on November 14, 2016 [26 favorites]

On some platforms (like tumblr and twitter) typing "Trump" is very much like saying Voldemort, because there are people tracking tags and doing searches and if they see someone they wanna fight with they will definitely do so. Any hot-button thing like Gamergate will have troll brigades. My experience of this is with fandom. It's common to obfuscate the names of certain ships or shows, like "The 1OO" instead of "The 100" or just inserting extra characters like "cl////exa".

So, in some contexts, obfuscating our president-elect's name has a practical defensive reason. Altho using "Drumpf" is both ineffective (because it's common enough that they'll search it) and vaguely xenophobic, so go ahead and call that out.

I have been calling him things like "Dingo Trap" because I don't want to cede any psychological space to him ... but I'm realizing that it's also a form of dehumanization. I'll think on that.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 3:09 PM on November 14, 2016 [6 favorites]

"I don't get why the relatives are still crying after DAYS." And when I try to say things like "think of how many people are gonna DIE with no health insurance," I get that crap parroted from her bosses about how expensive it was.

So, I've seen people push back by giving people an out on a personal level: "You may not be racist, but Trump has said racist things. Even if you don't think the worst will come to pass, I think it's understandable that people are frightened by what he's said."

Whenever people complain about health insurance cost with anecdota, I give it right back to them and say how my family and friends have directly benefitted from it.

The people complaining about protestors, point out how he lost the popular vote. When they extol the virtues of the electoral college, I simply state that it's something I think reasonable people can disagree on, that it seems unfair to me that the relative weight of a voter in Wyoming can be worth so much more than a Californian simply because of population density.

It's not about changing their minds right now, but about giving a competing narrative that may give them a twinge of doubt.
posted by ghost phoneme at 3:13 PM on November 14, 2016 [15 favorites]

> On some platforms (like tumblr and twitter) typing his name is very much like saying Voldemort, because there are people tracking tags and doing searches and if they see someone they wanna fight with they will definitely do so.

God, I knew that, but I sort of had blocked it out. To some extent he doesn't even need the state surveillance apparatus, because he's got surveillance Freikorps working for him round the clock.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 3:13 PM on November 14, 2016 [4 favorites]

I've just opted to call Trump and his... staff/associates/cronies the new administration. Takes a lot of cooks to set this place on fire.
posted by lineofsight at 3:14 PM on November 14, 2016 [6 favorites]

the lesson I took away from the Bush years is that arguing with your conservative relatives about how awful the administration is gets you absolutely fucking nowhere

but, give 'em a fucked up Iraq War and a Hurricane Katrina and eventually they'll come around on their own, sorta

so, um

~it gets better, but not really~
posted by prize bull octorok at 3:15 PM on November 14, 2016 [11 favorites]

I have been calling him things like "Dingo Trap" because I don't want to cede any psychological space to him ... but I'm realizing that it's also a form of dehumanization. I'll think on that.

I understand that impulse, I have it myself, but I'd ask that you consider how easy it is to dismiss people who engage in name-calling, especially of the sort that involves silly/mean changes to someone's name. I mean, how quickly would you tune out someone who was constantly referring to the democrap party, or Hitlery Clinton? I just think that it makes it so easy to dismiss what might otherwise be intelligent discussion as the rambling of the crazy left.
posted by skewed at 3:16 PM on November 14, 2016 [14 favorites]

Er, I should say, I don't have direct experience of the troll brigades in regard to Tromp. I'm extrapolating from my experience in fandom - I assume they're happening. And I assume many other people are making the same extrapolation.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 3:16 PM on November 14, 2016

Google’s top news link for ‘final election results’ goes to a fake news site with false numbers (WaPo)

This is another thing on the heap of possibly confirmation biasy situations online where I just feel like the internet rolled over a checkpoint sometime in 2016 where there is just so much fake shit out there it's rendering time spent online useless.

The way I imagine it, is how our friends and relatives who spend little time online must have viewed the internet. A vast wasteland full of text where unknowable truths and lies just fly about. There's no way to really know the truth of anything, so nothing matters.

I put a comment in an election thread that was from a fake account. It got quickly pointed out to me and I removed it. It has happened to another person I know who has been online for decades as well. Prominent journalists are retweeting fake information. Probably because it's just so plentiful, and it just seems like people are going out of their way to make it look legitimate for some stupid reason. Like humans actively working against themselves to ruin possibly the greatest shared and widely available tool for knowledge and education across the spectrum.

I did some searches on Google today and one was a search for some date information, and the top result was some bootleg website with a bunch of nonsense attached to the information I was looking for. Something happened with Google's algorithms.

Shit, something happened with America's algorithms. If I was a cartoonist I would conceptualize it as a giant mass of sludge with the word "ignorance" on the side and have it lurching up the sides of buildings with the tallest labeled 'summit of man's knowledge'. 60 minutes is done. Journalism is now like a mighty title for a no longer popular video game console. It doesn't matter how great it is, it's not going to have an effect. This election just showed that. And the tv news networks are all a waste. There's nothing. I'm sorry, I don't have a good note to end this on.
posted by cashman at 3:17 PM on November 14, 2016 [21 favorites]

I think the take-away is that Democrats need to get a lot better at dropping pamphlets from the sky if they want to have a chance.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 3:34 PM on November 14, 2016 [2 favorites]

Right. So there is a swastika that popped up near me over the weekend. I just heard about it a couple hours ago and took pictures.

I'm horrified. I knew this was happening, but I having it show up in my backyard is making me feel just sick.

I posted it to facebook, and someone, a person who I would normally consider quite a good guy, lashed out and tried to minimize it, wanting to know, and I quote: "So we're getting upset about what 14 year olds are doing now?"

This is what Trump supporters are doing. They're downplaying actions like this. They're claiming they are isolated. And they're saying "but the left is doing it too!" And we're just not.

I'm shaking. I don't know if I'm angry or scared or what. I'm terrified for us.
posted by [insert clever name here] at 3:38 PM on November 14, 2016 [35 favorites]

Trump is nearly at his strongest yet. He's already won, but he hasn't been able to *do* very much as yet. Yes, we all hate Bannon etc., but Trump voters won't care yet.

IMHO we should spend this time officially communicating with our own sens/reps, while also establishing the *frame* for Trump. Pin a dismissive label on him. We will not find him fearsome - that makes him powerful. We will not invoke the apocalypse - you'll look like Chicken Little.

No, try using some empathy to determine why your relative voted for Trump. Perhaps to them, Trump represents a more honest alternative to Clinton (at least he *knows* that he's pond scum), perhaps they feel that he will bring a businessman's touch to the White House, perhaps they like his mad dog style. (If you really do think that the only reason was racism, then I guess there's no point in trying to sway them.)

So, anyway - chip away at that. He is not a Businessman - he is simply a Salesman, selling only himself. And each time that he does something false, it simply confirms how right you had been.

Why not have a friendly bet. Pick some objectively measurable metric for one year out, and bet a friendly amount on it. Nothing huge. Not a threat-bet. Maybe a night on the town, drinks on you. Something like that. "You know, Aunt Sue, we only argue because we both just want a better future. I'll tell you what - let's put our arguments on hold, and instead make a friendly wager..."

And as for your sens/reps: keep the drumbeat STEADY and LOUD. Let them know that you are watching them, and that there will be no advantage in keeping too close to Trump. Your goal is to be as (politely) annoying as the most annoying nosy neighbor. You are up in their business and you follow them and you have friends who vote and you talk to your friends and they are almost as annoying as you are.
posted by Sticherbeast at 3:40 PM on November 14, 2016 [9 favorites]

A guy I ended up spending a half-hour in a car with last week was all the *both sides are bad HRC would've got us into a war, more bombing of Syria, those poor refugees*

So, I was like, "well, yes, we should let in more refugees, shouldn't we? And isn't Trump against that?"

And he said, "Well I read on the internet that refugees are arriving in the middle of the night at PHL airport. It might not be true, but, well."

It's like for the love of God man you just spent this time telling me that HRC was going to bomb poor refugees and then you're like *well the refugees are getting into the country someway well it might not be true but where there's smoke there's fire*

I applaud all of you trying to win hearts and minds out there but well, I was looking through emojis for some reason and there are these hand symbols and they are all yellow hands except for one black fist.

I just stared at that fist thinking "Why is only the FIST black" and then sat there looking at it and thinking: That's what I want to offer Trump and his allies. An upraised fist.

You can raise a fist at peaceful protests. An upraised fist doesn't strike. But it connotes anger. And I just hope that my lily whiteness doesn't make me unqualified for the black fist emoji.

I'm going to be the angry person carted off to jail while my hick relatives think *we always knew she was crazy*.
posted by angrycat at 3:40 PM on November 14, 2016 [5 favorites]

"So we're getting upset about what 14 year olds are doing now?"

Potential reply: "When those 14-year-olds are glorifying racist murdering thugs, then yes; yes we are."

All of us should be concerned with what 14-year-olds are doing, especially when it's both criminal (vandalism) and speaks of a potential for violence directed at their own communities.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 3:43 PM on November 14, 2016 [18 favorites]

I called all my congresspeople, and the few US reps from my state that are (R)s, to urge them to denounce Steve Bannon. Mostly had to leave messages on voicemails, but it felt good to take some action.
posted by Existential Dread at 3:45 PM on November 14, 2016 [3 favorites]

"If those 14 year olds are joining the neo-Hitler Youth, yeah, I'm going to get upset about what they're doing."
posted by zachlipton at 3:45 PM on November 14, 2016 [10 favorites]

Something happened with Google's algorithms.

I got my first big sense of it last year. Things that you used to be able to recall with a description and a phrase, whether from last week or ten years ago, were gone, the muscle memories useless. It's all fuzzy now, like an externalised memory loss. (Or like the last days of AltaVista.)

And there's this piece on the perfect storm of the Facebook UI (and profit motive) and clickbait psychology:

The headlines that float by you on Facebook for one to two hours a day, dozens at a time, create a sense of familiarity with ideas that are not only wrong, but hateful and dangerous. This is further compounded by the fact that what is highlighted on the cards that Facebook is not the source of the article, which is so small and gray as to be effectively invisible, but the friendly smiling face of someone you trust.

posted by holgate at 3:48 PM on November 14, 2016 [6 favorites]

AP In Trump's orbit, son-in-law expected to stay a power center

Kushner's options for a White House job are limited given his family ties to the president, according to Richard Painter, who served as President George W. Bush's White House ethics lawyer. Congress passed an anti-nepotism law in 1967 that prohibits the president from appointing a family member — including a son-in-law — to work in the office or agency they oversee. The measure was passed after President John F. Kennedy appointed his brother, Robert Kennedy, as attorney general.

But the law does not appear to prevent Kushner from serving as an unpaid adviser. Painter said that arrangement would allow Kushner to both advise Trump and sidestep ethics rules requiring federal employees to comply with conflict of interest laws.

"You can be an informal adviser to the president with lots of conflicts of interest," said Painter, a Republican who supported Clinton during the campaign.

My guess is that all the grown Trumps (except Tiffany!) will be in the White House in some capacity. Advising the new President but also keeping an eye out for more power and money-making opportunities.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:50 PM on November 14, 2016 [3 favorites]

But the law does not appear to prevent Kushner from serving as an unpaid adviser.

he's going to have the very best éminence grises. The grisiest
posted by prize bull octorok at 3:53 PM on November 14, 2016 [9 favorites]

Today a result of this election that I did not anticipate occurred. My kidlet's school forced her class to watch Trump's acceptance speech. That one wasn't the worst, but it made me wonder: what to do going forward if his speeches aren't appropriate for children?
posted by corb at 3:56 PM on November 14, 2016 [6 favorites]

The WSJ story is up now, and this is good news: Google to Bar Fake-News Websites From Using Its Ad-Selling Software

Google said Monday that it is updating its policies to ban Google ads being placed “on pages that misrepresent, misstate, or conceal information about the publisher, the publisher’s content, or the primary purpose” of the website. The policy would include sites that distribute false news, a Google spokeswoman said.

False news stories, particularly those that spread widely on Facebook Inc.’s social network, became an issue during the recent presidential election. Google experienced its own mishap on Sunday when a false story on a right-wing blog erroneously stating Donald Trump won the popular vote appeared atop some Google search results.

Kicking fake news sites off AdSense is only a first step, but it's a real one. Enforcement will be tricky, and there are plenty of other ad exchanges, but it's at least acknowledging the problem and taking responsibility for making it worse.
posted by zachlipton at 3:57 PM on November 14, 2016 [10 favorites]

Followup tip for those calling legislators today: save their number in your phone so you don't have to look it up next time.
posted by melissasaurus at 3:57 PM on November 14, 2016 [5 favorites]

I've been thinking a bunch about Danbury, Connecticut this last week. At one time (and for over a century) Danbury was the leading manufacturer of hats in the country. People used to wear hats everywhere but after World War 2 - for a variety of reasons, one major one being the rapid rise of the automobile - fewer and fewer people wore hats and the industry ultimately collapsed. Danbury is still a pretty active micro-city but none of the descendants of the once proud Hat Industry work in the Hat Business these days. If a politician came to Danbury and claimed that he'd be able to get the Hat Industry off the ground again, I think almost everyone would scoff at him. They know those days are in the past.

When I hear Trump claiming that he's going to bring back coal mining or steel mills or factories or whatever, I can't help but think that a significant portion of the people hearing this - who surely are no more or less intelligent than the people of Danbury or of any other city or town - recognizing that this is an impossible promise. They know their industries better than anyone else.

Furthermore, the people of Danbury now work in a bunch of other industries because the town had to move on. Granted, every situation is different (and some towns, which were supported by a single company, get destroyed when that company collapses or splits) but holding out hope for the process of history to reverse itself so that the circumstances that allowed Hammertruck factories to flourish in there areas just means they're not allowing themselves to move on. Politicians that make them believe the factories might reopen hinder their ability to find other solutions.

I'm not advocating for some sort of tech revolution - many of the folks in Danbury work in education or in health care or for multi-nationals with local offices. I also am not saying Danbury is some sort of ideal example of the process of how a community survives after its main industry collapses (just one I'm familiar with because I grew up nearby). What I am advocating is that this message of "the world keeps changing and it won't stop changing even if we want it to, so we have to find other solutions and we all have to work together to help you find them" is maybe an argument we should be making all the time.

To whit, I'm not just a progressive because of my views on social justice - I'm a progressive because I'm pragmatic and recognize that history itself is a progressive process. Learning to adapt to change is the only way to survive as a species. Change has to be done intelligently though and not just left up to hurricanes and the occasional mismanaged war.

I have a friend from China who says that Chinese history is circular - attitudes and events keep gradually looping back on themselves. He thinks American history is like a bunch of straight lines that go very aggressively in one direction and then suddenly change and go very aggressively in another direction and then change again. I'll lay this problem at the foot of conservatism - we refuse to change until we have to change and then we change suddenly and ithout much thought or planning until we're forced to change again. Being progressive means allowing yourself to change as you need to and in anticipation of of the way the world is changing.
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:59 PM on November 14, 2016 [16 favorites]

WTF. Even Michelle Obama is the target of openly racist dehumanizing hate speech now.

I am beyond disgusted.
posted by Westringia F. at 4:00 PM on November 14, 2016 [12 favorites]

Google said Monday that it is updating its policies to ban Google ads being placed “on pages that misrepresent, misstate, or conceal information about the publisher, the publisher’s content, or the primary purpose” of the website.

Some actual good news! I wonder if it also implies some correlation between AdSense and Google results. Though it's probably a more complicated web of being interested in the same subject matter that serves those ads leading to those results being served...
posted by wallgrub at 4:02 PM on November 14, 2016 [1 favorite]

Shit, something happened with America's algorithms.

This needs to be on billboards.
posted by Annika Cicada at 4:05 PM on November 14, 2016 [11 favorites]

The Trump kids and Mike Pence, should not have the security clearance to catch dogs. Mike Pence made it clear the USA is fourth in line for his loyalty. Trump has to use his brains to run this country, this presidency is not a family gossip session, or family dinner. Melania Knaus Trump, illegal immigrant, cum first lady, also can't have the security clearance to catch dogs.
posted by Oyéah at 4:06 PM on November 14, 2016 [2 favorites]

will the google adsense changes make AskMe great again, though?
posted by tivalasvegas at 4:07 PM on November 14, 2016 [4 favorites]

BuzzFeed Renegade Facebook Employees Form Task Force To Battle Fake News

Facebook employees have formed an unofficial task force to question the role their company played in promoting fake news in the lead-up to Donald Trump’s victory in the US election last week, amid a larger, national debate over the rise of fake and misleading news articles in a platform used by more than 150 million Americans.

The task force, which sources tell BuzzFeed News includes employees from across the company, has already refuted a statement made by Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg at a conference last week that the argument that fake news on Facebook affected the election was “a pretty crazy idea.”

“It’s not a crazy idea. What’s crazy is for him to come out and dismiss it like that, when he knows, and those of us at the company know, that fake news ran wild on our platform during the entire campaign season,” said one Facebook employee, who works in the social network’s engineering division. He, like the four other Facebook employees who spoke to BuzzFeed News for this story, would only speak on condition of anonymity. All five employees said they had been warned by their superiors against speaking to press, and feared they would lose their jobs if named.

posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:07 PM on November 14, 2016 [41 favorites]

Don't we want Jared and Ivanka to have as much access as possible, given that as morally repugnant they are they're likely to be the most liberal people in the administration by far? Plus I figure that Trump will tell them everything anyway, so might as well do it with some oversight.
posted by acidic at 4:12 PM on November 14, 2016 [3 favorites]

Yeah, but we also want to not be powerless subjects to a mad king, and to live in a democracy without nepotism. Plus all of the business stuff.

Maybe if we're lucky the nepotism triggers an impeachment and implodes the party for a couple of years.
posted by fomhar at 4:15 PM on November 14, 2016 [4 favorites]

The Daily Beast has more about security clearance for his children: Trump Wants Top-Secret Clearance for Kids

The president-elect has reportedly begun asking how he could secure top-level clearance for his adult children and son-in-law, most of whom are currently helming his transition team. Only official government employees and contractors can receive security clearance. Trump's daughter Ivanka, and sons Eric and Donald Jr., and son-in-law Jared Kushner are currently part of his transition effort, but none have any official government role, or experience in government. CBS's Julianne Goldman reports that Trump's adult children would run his business and work as unpaid national security advisors, to skirt nepotism rules. Their suggested dual roles would invite an unprecedented conflict of interests.[...]

Ivanka Trump also said that she would not be interested in a formal role in the upcoming administration. "I’m going to be a daughter," she said when asked about a possible role. "But I’ve-- I’ve said throughout the campaign that I am very passionate about certain issues. And that I want to fight for them."

A former Obama administration official told The Daily Beast that Trump could simply be asking for them to be cleared so they can have unescorted access to parts of the West Wing. Even First Ladies have to be cleared to access that part of the White House, but that doesn't mean they have access to top secret areas like the Situation Room, the official said, speaking anonymously because he was not authorized to discuss the clearance process publicly. The lowest level of clearance is called "Yankee White" which could be what Trump is seeking.

Then we have to ask if all the previous children of POTUS have had security clearance. In other words, is this SOP? I have a feeling it isn't because the news is pouncing on this detail.

Don't we want Jared and Ivanka to have as much access as possible

Why do they need clearance-- surely they can talk to their Dad anytime they want. If they get insider knowledge of what is happening in foreign and domestic affairs while running the family business that becomes much, much too insidery. The whole reason for turning the business in a "blind trust" (not a true blind trust) run by his kids was to prevent a conflict of interest.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:17 PM on November 14, 2016 [5 favorites]

The time to fight back is before they start restricting normal, everyday, lawful activities

Like setting up free speech zones when a President is within 15 blocks?
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 4:21 PM on November 14, 2016 [7 favorites]

"have been perceived as blatantly racist."

journalists just can't get over using language that softens the image of YES THE BLANTENTLY RACIST THING IS RACIST
posted by waitangi at 4:21 PM on November 14, 2016 [25 favorites]

... and now biological and nuclear weapons proliferation advocate, NRA flak, and American Enterprise Institute fellow John Bolton!

The whited sepulchers open and the ghouls assemble.
posted by ryanshepard at 4:22 PM on November 14, 2016 [5 favorites]

Details about security clearance:

1) They need at least the minimal level of clearance to walk around the west wing unescorted. This is potentially a problem, in that currently, only gov't employees can get clearances. If they're "unpaid advisors" to avoid the conflict of interest of managing his businesses, they can't be federal employees.

2) Clearances are granted by the Bureau of Human Resources, which is under control of the Secretary of State. So, no problem appointing someone to grant that... except that that process can't begin until he's in office.

3) It normally takes about 4 months to get clearance; I'm not sure how much handwaving is allowed for that - and even very sycophantic supporters might not want to set the precedent of "the president just grants clearance to anyone he wants."
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 4:26 PM on November 14, 2016 [3 favorites]

Ok, here we go. I am a bit terrified of posting a comment to this thread, given the tensions of the past week, but so many of you on the blue are writing that you don't know any Trump supporters (which is interesting because over on the green people are asking questions about how to handle Trump supporting relatives over the holidays) so I thought I'd provide a little insight from my circle of the world here in Northern Virginia.

About me, politically, for background: White, 40, registered Democrat in college (assumed and didn't understand why Republicans didn't want to help people and make the world a better place, so natch the Democrat party seemed to align with my goals to improve the world) who switched to the Republican party post college, admittedly under the strong influence of three things [1] my father in law who explained to me that most Republicans he knew DID CARE about people but thought they should be helped through private charities or at the local and state level instead of the Fed. He asked me two simple questions of if I acknowledge that people trend toward evil (which I did) and that you can't always trust people at the state level to do the right thing (one of my prime arguments for a caretaking Federal govt) then why on earth would i think people at the federal level would not also trend toward evil and should be trusted more? And If I couldn't trust them more then people at the state level then why would I support giving them so much more power and money when they are so less accountable to me as a voter when they make bad decisions than people at the state level? [2] an increased concern with free will and the problems with forcing people to do what I think they should with their money and private property [3] the DNC vs RNC platform in the early 90s and how contrasted they were. The RNC platform had, from memory, several different approaches to the problems of the nation while the DNC platform seemed pretty much to report for every issue - the solution is we need more money to fix this. However, because I had been a Democrat, and many of my friends were still (and are still) Democrats, I clung to the belief that 90% of us in America are GOOD people who want the same things (opportunity, freedom, higher standard of living, a healthy populous, etc etc) but just have very different ideas on how to best achieve that and hence we debate incessantly as a people. I have typically voted R in elections, except for I voted for Obama both times because McCain seemed so angry all the time it made me nervous and I was worried about Romney's judgement. For me those elections came down to this - yes Obama is a Democrat and yes we disagree a lot on policy (except I am probably to the left of Dems on opening borders and mercy for immigrants as I am the daughter of one) but he seems to be a GOOD man and I trust that he will not do terrible, immoral things. If he is a Christian, and praying about his work, it will probably turn out ok. Besides, the Republicans in Congress can hopefully stop anything he tries to roll out that is too socialist leaning (infringing on people's free will and property rights). So in summary, generally fiscally conservative but for open borders (both for free trade and for immigration - economics teaches us that for the labor to have as much power as the capitalists both trade and immigration must be open so people can freely settle and work wherever they prefer).

THEN came this election. What to do? I did not want to vote for Hillary. I can never forget the interview I read of her where she said, to paraphrase, in answer to the question of why she went into law - she has always wanted to change the world and she used to think that changing people's minds one at a time and appealing to their better nature was the way to do this but then she realized it was more efficient and productive to get your fingers into policy making in the govt and change the law to reflect your values and people will come along eventually, albeit perhaps kicking and screaming at first. That horrified me when I read it and still does to this day because it's an evil of shortcutting over people's free will to get what you want. I watched her DNC convention speech and it was so moving and for a few moments I thought I could vote for her till she started talking about free college and federal guarantee of right to job and healthcare and I just couldn't do it because it runs all over the free will of everyone who doesn't want to pay for that stuff and I have worked for Congressional leadership and have seen the waste of taxpayer money that goes on with both sides of the aisle. But then there is Trump. Unethical. Sleazy. Sexist. Race bating. No way I could vote for him and sleep at night.

So i chatted up all my Republican friends (demographics - late 20s to mid 50s, white middle to upper class folks both locally and across the country)- what were they going to do? I was sad to find out most were going to vote for Trump. Yes, yes they thought his character was disgusting but they hoped that the Republican establishment that would surround him in the WH and in congress would keep him on track with conservative fiscal policy. Plus they said, no way could we let Hillary pick the next SC justices. How can you do that though I asked? How can you put your desires for the shape of the court over your obligation not to support a man of such character (who clearly doesn't seem to talk to God much at all) in the WH? HOW? And they countered with are you suggesting we vote for Hillary and I couldn't say I wanted them to do that anyway. Maybe you should sit it out or vote 3rd party I suggested. That will just be votes thrown away and given to Hillary by proxy they said. As far as I know, I am the *only* Republican in any of the circles I travel in that didn't vote for Trump. But i couldn't bring myself to vote for Hillary either, so I sat out the Federal vote.

So that's one perspective from the right. And it has already cost me emotionally. Several of my left leaning friends have called me obscene names this week and defriended me both in person and on social media when they found out I didn't vote for Hillary. Even though they knew I was a Republican, they thought I would come around for her or something I guess. And they are so angry. Seething rage bubbling up from under the surface and ready to strike. I've never seen anything like this before. When I voted for Obama, many many of my Republican friends told me I was naive to assume he was a good man who meant what he said about being a Christian and having good character but none of them called me an privileged insufferable white bitch or the other rotten things I've been called this week by me Democratic friends because I chose to sit out the election. The fear and resultant viciousness coming from my social media circle on the left is unprecedented.
posted by TestamentToGrace at 4:26 PM on November 14, 2016 [28 favorites]

Yeah I was just going to post the same thing, waitangi. "Perceived as" like if you look at it from a different POV maybe not racist, maybe it is just your perception that it is racist.

At any rate here is the quote: “It will be so refreshing to have a classy, beautiful, dignified First Lady back in the White House. I’m tired of seeing a Ape in heels,”

Their idea of "classy" must be very different than mine.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:26 PM on November 14, 2016 [4 favorites]

Already had a cousin call me a "fucktard" for commenting on one of those "I survived 8 years of Obama" things. They still don't know how badly they've been hoodwinked.
posted by aspersioncast at 4:30 PM on November 14, 2016

If you're in Oregon and thinking about calling your representatives about Steve Bannon, bear in mind that we've already seen at least some comment from several:

Senator Jeff Merkley (D) had the best response I could find, with a press release strongly denouncing this appointment (linked and quoted upthread, here again for completeness). He's reiterating this position on Hardball with Chris Matthews tonight (right now, I think), per Twitter.

Senator Ron Wyden and Representatives Suzanne Bonamici and Earl Blumenauer (all D) have all commented on the Bannon appointment on Twitter. I couldn't find any statements on Twitter or elsewhere from Representatives Peter DeFazio or Kurt Schrader (both D), so if these are your reps and you want them to make some kind of statement, it might be worth reaching out to encourage them to take a public stand.

Oregon's only Republican rep, Greg Walden, has not commented either as far as I could tell. If you're in Oregon's 2nd district or know someone who is, it would be great to put some pressure on him to weigh in here as a Republican. (Not that the Dem voices are unappreciated, but they're too easily dismissed out of hand as partisan; we really need more Republicans to demonstrate some integrity here.)

I also made a couple of calls at the state level to encourage the legislature to support the National Popular Vote. The aide I talked to at OR Senate President Peter Courtney's office said that they've been hearing a lot about this, so maybe this next legislative session will be the one. (As far as I can tell, the OR House has passed this a number of times, and OR Senator Diane Rosenbaum has supported it in the Senate, but Sen. Courtney doesn't seem to have been on board so far.)
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 4:31 PM on November 14, 2016 [7 favorites]

TestamentToGrace, I am sorry that you are being called names. A lot of people are mad at those who sat the election out because they/we feel that we may lose our lives because of it.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:33 PM on November 14, 2016 [55 favorites]

And they are so angry. Seething rage bubbling up from under the surface and ready to strike. I've never seen anything like this before.

TestamentToGrace, the guy who's about to be in charge of major sections of our country - and our entire military - is an ignorant bully whose allies would like to KILL a lot of us. As in, we are below human to them; neither our lives nor our communities matter to their vision of the future of America.

I'm Pagan. The only reason I'm not getting rocks thrown at me as that my religion is small enough that they've forgotten it exists in the wave of anti-Muslim sentiment. I'm queer. I'm outside of mainstream in several other ways. I decided several years ago not to have a third child, and not to publicly mention details about my religion online until my younger was 18, because I feared additional crackdowns against my family.

And I'm white, married, well-employed, college-educated, in a liberal superbubble district. I have little to fear, compared to the people the president elect promised to deport or torture. (To him, "accused of terrorism" means "guilty of terrorism.)

We are all terrified, and a lot of that fear is going to find its outlet in lashing out at people who could have stopped this, but decided that "manipulative" was more detrimental to the country than "fascistic."
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 4:34 PM on November 14, 2016 [51 favorites]

Newsweek The Myths Democrats Swallowed That Cost Them the Presidential Election

1. The Myth of the All-Powerful Democratic National Committee

2. The Myth That Sanders Would Have Won Against Trump

I have seen the opposition book assembled by Republicans for Sanders, and it was brutal. [...]

Here are a few tastes of what was in store for Sanders, straight out of the Republican playbook: He thinks rape is A-OK. In 1972, when he was 31, Sanders wrote a fictitious essay in which he described a woman enjoying being raped by three men. Yes, there is an explanation for it—a long, complicated one, just like the one that would make clear why the Clinton emails story was nonsense. And we all know how well that worked out.

Then there’s the fact that Sanders was on unemployment until his mid-30s, and that he stole electricity from a neighbor after failing to pay his bills, and that he co-sponsored a bill to ship Vermont’s nuclear waste to a poor Hispanic community in Texas, where it could be dumped. You can just see the words “environmental racist” on Republican billboards. And if you can’t, I already did. They were in the Republican opposition research book as a proposal on how to frame the nuclear waste issue.

Also on the list: Sanders violated campaign finance laws, criticized Clinton for supporting the 1994 crime bill that he voted for, and he voted against the Amber Alert system. His pitch for universal health care would have been used against him too, since it was tried in his home state of Vermont and collapsed due to excessive costs. Worst of all, the Republicans also had video of Sanders at a 1985 rally thrown by the leftist Sandinista government in Nicaragua where half a million people chanted, “Here, there, everywhere/the Yankee will die,’’ while President Daniel Ortega condemned “state terrorism” by America. Sanders said, on camera, supporting the Sandinistas was “patriotic.”

The Republicans had at least four other damning Sanders videos (I don’t know what they showed), and the opposition research folder was almost 2-feet thick. (The section calling him a communist with connections to Castro alone would have cost him Florida.) In other words, the belief that Sanders would have walked into the White House based on polls taken before anyone really attacked him is a delusion built on a scaffolding of political ignorance.

posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:35 PM on November 14, 2016 [82 favorites]

The fear and resultant viciousness coming from my social media circle on the left is unprecedented.

Your party nominated a sociopath who courted the KKK and Neo-Nazis during his campaign and is attempting to grant actual white supremacists access to the levers of national power. There should be no mystery as to why the fear on the part of the left (and really anyone who is not a white supremacist) is unprecedented.
posted by Atom Eyes at 4:39 PM on November 14, 2016 [73 favorites]

That horrified me when I read it and still does to this day because it's an evil of shortcutting over people's free will to get what you want.

No, it's shortcutting over the majority's tendency to inflict the most massively horrific evil you can possibly imagine on minority groups.

I fear the tyranny of the majority way more than I fear any government, and THAT is why I am a democrat.

I just couldn't do it because it runs all over the free will of everyone who doesn't want to pay for that stuff

There are people in the state I live in who are using this "free will" argument to criminalize my existence as a trans woman and you know what, free will doesn't mean you get to be an asshole to whomever you want just cause.

And that's why I'm a democrat.
posted by Annika Cicada at 4:40 PM on November 14, 2016 [68 favorites]

The fear and resultant viciousness coming from my social media circle on the left is unprecedented.

Have you considered that might be because the candidate who got election is unprecedentedly dangerous and unqualified? I'm sorry you were called names. But the fact that you don't see election results as something that might cause real fear is, indeed, an artifact of white privilege.

You say the election has cost you emotionally. There are many people for whom the costs are not going to be emotion, the costs will be death from lack of health coverage. Deportation. Hate crime, injury, and possibly death. Lack of social services and possibly death.

And so on. But I'm sorry your feelings were hurt.
posted by Justinian at 4:41 PM on November 14, 2016 [56 favorites]

2. The Myth That Sanders Would Have Won Against Trump

Somebody posted a link to OpenSecrets last night and I looked up some people I know. The big surprise was that my uncle donated an absolute shit-ton of money to O'Malley last year

maybe he was on to something
posted by prize bull octorok at 4:41 PM on November 14, 2016 [10 favorites]

On the balance, what AtomEyes said. I'm sorry that you find the idea of being drug forward into progress a subversion of free will. I really am.

But I'm a lot sorrier (and much, much angrier) that a lot of us are going to lose healthcare, get deported, and be measurably less safe. A whole, hell of a lot.
posted by Archelaus at 4:41 PM on November 14, 2016 [10 favorites]

I've been thinking a bunch about Danbury, Connecticut this last week.

Hey, Danbury represent. I grew up there. Mostly when I think of it now, I am thinking "thank christ I got out of there."
posted by Justinian at 4:42 PM on November 14, 2016 [2 favorites]

what to do going forward if his speeches aren't appropriate for children?

That's a really good question, especially since it's virtually guaranteed we're going to find out more awful things Trump has said and done over the years.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:43 PM on November 14, 2016 [2 favorites]

Senator Ed Markey, of Massachusetts, pinned this to his FB page:
If the saying is true and you are the company you keep, Donald Trump has chosen to champion the positions of neo-Nazis, white nationalists and anti-Semites by appointing Steve Bannon as chief strategist and senior counselor.
There is no place in our society, let alone the White House, for purveyors like Steve Bannon of hate and violence against any group of Americans. President-elect Trump will forever poison the well with Congress and the American people by appointing a figure who has fueled the rhetoric and activities of hate groups that actively promote violence against immigrants, Muslims, women, African-Americans, the LGBTQ community, and people of Jewish faith.
If Donald Trump wants to keep his word and unify the country, he must call on all of his appointments to repudiate any and all past affiliations with hate groups, and he himself must denounce anyone who has affiliations with groups whose stock and trade is hate and violence against the American people.
Right now, we are in an epic battle for our democracy. The stand we take today will determine if future generations live in a nation founded on hope or fueled by hate. Today, and every day moving forward, we must always be guided by the principles and values of our nation -- justice, tolerance, liberty, and equality -- for all races, creeds, colors, faiths and origins.
posted by TwoStride at 4:45 PM on November 14, 2016 [33 favorites]

w/r/t the myth that Sanders would have won against Trump, another thing to consider is that during the brief window of time when it looked like Sanders had a chance, that moment right after he won Michigan, Bloomberg immediately started making noises about how he'd enter the race as an independent if Sanders and Trump were the candidates. Which would have either directly thrown the election to Trump, or else sent it to the Republican-controlled House, under rules guaranteed to yield a Trump victory.

Not to make Grand Pronouncements or anything, but: powerful neoliberals are much more comfortable with fascism than with anything that smells even remotely like socialism.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 4:46 PM on November 14, 2016 [12 favorites]

the DNC vs RNC platform in the early 90s and how contrasted they were. The RNC platform had, from memory, several different approaches to the problems of the nation while the DNC platform seemed pretty much to report for every issue - the solution is we need more money to fix this.

I grew up in a conservative area, where most political interested people were some flavor of conservative; I grew up accepting a lot of those politics, because it was what I saw. I accepted it, in part, based on the idea you mention here: the Left had one, top down set of ideas that it would impose, despite practical evidence to the contrary, conservatives were pragmatic, drawing on real experience. I was really into Edmund Burke around this time.

The thing is, as I grew up and spent more time in the real world, I saw that I had it totally backwards. Conservatives in America, at least now, have a defined set kid policy choices that they impose whenever they get power. Cut taxes, no matter the current tax rate. Cut assistance to the poor, no matter what level it's at, impose "Christian" values no matter what the demographics of the area are.

I've come around on a lot of things(my politics did a 180), mostly from meeting the actual people impacted by these policy choices, but that was the first thing I noticed.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 4:47 PM on November 14, 2016 [23 favorites]

The fear and resultant viciousness coming from my social media circle on the left is unprecedented.

Well, nobody should call you names or scream at you. That completely sucks, and I'm sorry about that. Yet, I also don't think this compares to Barack Obama's election in 2008. Obama's message was very much about hope and unity and "No red or blue, but purple". A lot of it may sound schmaltzy, especially at this point, but I think a lot people were tired of the partisanship eight years ago.

Donald ran on the complete opposite of that. For 16 months nobody could escape from his vile uninformed opinions about minorities, women, and foreigners. And even before then, his role as one of the big promoters of the birther movement really did not help at all. His core message was that the world, US society, and everything was a zero-sum competition: US vs. the Rest, Whites vs. Minorities, Men vs. Women. Either you're on one side that wins, or on the other side that loses (and only can win because they cheat or lie).
posted by FJT at 4:47 PM on November 14, 2016 [6 favorites]

That horrified me when I read it and still does to this day because it's an evil of shortcutting over people's free will to get what you want.

Integrating schools in the south was a shortcut over the free will of the (voting) people of Alabama. Or: when did a majority of Americans finally approve of interracial marriage? The 1990s. And so on.

I'm sorry that your friends have called you bad names. It's for you to work out in your own heart whether their fears are worthy of your consideration.
posted by holgate at 4:47 PM on November 14, 2016 [56 favorites]

The fear and resultant viciousness coming from my social media circle on the left is unprecedented.

Maybe because people who did not vote for Clinton have fucked over the US and the rest of the world to an amazing degree. Even if you ignore the racism, misogyny, incoherence and ignorance (which you shouldn't), the very idea that the world's most powerful man, in charge of the country that produces the most CO2 per capita, does not believe in climate change and is planning to do all that he can (which is a lot) to prevent efforts to protect the environment is a terrifying thing to consider. I have no children, live in Canada and I'm in my thirties; I will be ok come what may with regards to the climate, but almost everyone younger than me is very likely screwed because a bunch of white people decided that the minorities were getting too uppity.

So yeah, maybe some Republicans were gracious in their loss to Obama, who simply wanted to make sure people had access to health care (how terrible! the monster!), but the people on the left who are distressed, angry and spitting venom over the election of the orange monster have very good reasons to be that way.

It may not be the most effective way to win hearts and minds, but it may also be too late to do anything but get pissed and tell the people who fucked the world over how angry you are that they were so selfish.
posted by dazed_one at 4:48 PM on November 14, 2016 [46 favorites]

TestamentToGrace:
That horrified me when I read it and still does to this day because it's an evil of shortcutting over people's free will to get what you want.
How do you feel about Democracy in general? Do you think that government is the only mechanism by which people's free will is shortcutted? Do you reward Republicans with your vote even when they propose using the government to control things they don't like?
posted by Green With You at 4:48 PM on November 14, 2016 [17 favorites]

she has always wanted to change the world and she used to think that changing people's minds one at a time and appealing to their better nature was the way to do this but then she realized it was more efficient and productive to get your fingers into policy making in the govt and change the law to reflect your values and people will come along eventually, albeit perhaps kicking and screaming at first.

In my lifetime it was against the law for black people to marry white people. That changed in 1967 with Loving v. Virginia (which, by the way, didn't make new law; it looked in the rulebook and saw that anti-miscegenation laws violated both the Due Process Clause and the Equal Protection Clause).

it would've been It would've been illegal for a black person to sit in the same part of a bus in parts of this country until Rosa Parks accelerated a movement towards desegregation. Black people had to use separate-but-"equal" bathrooms, water fountains, and restaurants.

Gays, lesbians, and bisexuals couldn't openly serve in the military until Don't Ask, Don't Tell was repealed in 2010. Same-sex couples couldn't get married in much of this country until the Obergefell v. Hodges decision last year.

People don't always come along soon enough, and I don't care if they kick and scream if they are wrong. The Equal Protection Clause says states can't "deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws." All of the laws.
posted by kirkaracha at 4:49 PM on November 14, 2016 [58 favorites]

That horrified me when I read it and still does to this day because it's an evil of shortcutting over people's free will to get what you want.

It's only evil to shortcut others' free will to get what you want when what you want is evil.

Traffic lights infringe on people's free will. Policies to install traffic lights were not established by patiently convincing every driver, one by one, that they'd be a good idea.

A "change policies, not people" approach is appropriate for matters of mass safety where those who believe they will never be unsafe won't support a change.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 4:49 PM on November 14, 2016 [47 favorites]

...she has always wanted to change the world and she used to think that changing people's minds one at a time and appealing to their better nature was the way to do this but then she realized it was more efficient and productive to get your fingers into policy making in the govt and change the law to reflect your values and people will come along eventually, albeit perhaps kicking and screaming at first

That's not so bad, though, if you look at it through the lens of Brown vs. Board of Education?

I was able to marry the love of my life up here in Canada owing to a Supreme Court decision that brought other folks along kicking and screaming. But that decision didn't have an impact on their own free will to marry who they want. Or never marry at all.

But given that you didn't feel that you were able to vote your conscience, this would be where I'd say you were right to sit it out. That's o.k. But on the other side of the coin maybe they're not great friends if they're being so shitty to you about a president you didn't vote for.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 4:51 PM on November 14, 2016 [6 favorites]

Yeah No it is not the job of the oppressed to comfort the oppressors. Supporting someone who does and says racist/misogynist/homophobic things is taking part in that bigotry. Standing by and doing nothing is cowardice.

I understand how some conservatives are under the mistaken assumption that Republicans are all about sane fiscal policy when all evidence is to the contrary. Republicans like to spend stupid amounts of money on various things (generally about being punitive to PoC) they just don't want to have to pay for them. So endless tax cuts while also increasing spending. It's a challenge to undo decades of messaging and social training.

Friends being mean to you on social media is nothing, family refusing to come to your house for Thanksgiving is nothing. It is White Fragility that lots of Republicans are feeling right now when people are calling them on the bullshit.
posted by vuron at 4:53 PM on November 14, 2016 [29 favorites]

Mod note: Folks, gonna suggest we steer back, before this becomes too much of a personal everybody-respond-to TestamentToGrace -- a number of rebuttal points have been made, and maybe let's move it back toward the more general discussion.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 4:59 PM on November 14, 2016 [18 favorites]

Tom Brady has broken his promise (and Jets fans cheer.)
posted by bukvich at 5:05 PM on November 14, 2016

Do you live in Alaska, Arizona, Nebraska, or Maine? If so, you are represented in Congress by a Republican senator who is a possible ally in our fight to keep the filibuster around. Here is who to call:

• Alaska: Lisa Murkowski — [phone]
• Arizona: Jeff Flake — [phone]
• Nebraska: Ben Sasse — [phone]
• Maine: Susan Collins — [phone]

These are the phone numbers for local offices in their respective state capitals. There may be an office in a city closer to you. (Alaska is a big state! Senator Murkowski has lots of offices! And Maine is a smaller state ... but Senator Collins has lots of offices too!) If you think you eventually want to get more involved than phone calls, click on the links to find the number for the office closest to you. That way you can get to know staffers as suggested above.

Present the filibuster as an important component of limited government — it is a necessary check that keeps things from growing out of control.

I will be calling tomorrow, and welcome any suggestions about more specific language to use.
posted by compartment at 5:12 PM on November 14, 2016 [17 favorites]

If they get insider knowledge of what is happening in foreign and domestic affairs while running the family business that becomes much, much too insidery. The whole reason for turning the business in a "blind trust" (not a true blind trust) run by his kids was to prevent a conflict of interest.

And of course, all this seems JUST FINE to people who went into frothing ragefits over the idea that the former Secretary of State gave some speeches at Wall Street firms. Fucking shoot me now, please.
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:17 PM on November 14, 2016 [23 favorites]

I've hated Steve Bannon ever since that time he was so mean to Chapman.

sorry. and with that i'm out for a while, need to find some way to decompress.
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 5:19 PM on November 14, 2016

The AP is reporting Giuliani is the favored name for Secretary of State.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:19 PM on November 14, 2016

Are you fucking kidding me
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:22 PM on November 14, 2016 [5 favorites]

Are you fucking kidding me

I'm starting to think this is just the theme for the whole election.
posted by Archelaus at 5:23 PM on November 14, 2016 [33 favorites]

I'm sure Secretary of State Rudy Giuliani and Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson will get along great tho.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 5:24 PM on November 14, 2016 [3 favorites]

Well Ghouliani could probably do more damage as AG so I guess SoS might be preferable...
posted by vuron at 5:24 PM on November 14, 2016

This really is the darkest timeline.
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:24 PM on November 14, 2016 [13 favorites]

Given what happened to many Nobel Peace Prize winners who end up not deserving their award, I wonder if there's a similar thing for TIME Magazine Person of the Year winners who won for positive reasons.

Exactly a decade ago. I hate this guy.
posted by Apocryphon at 5:25 PM on November 14, 2016 [1 favorite]

This really is the darkest timeline.

Every time you say that it gets darker.
posted by Annika Cicada at 5:25 PM on November 14, 2016 [14 favorites]

WTF. Even Michelle Obama is the target of openly racist dehumanizing hate speech now.

I am beyond disgusted.

Oh, there's no "now" to this. Republicans -- and I mean people in positions of power, not some rando Republican dude on social media -- have been saying incredibly vile things about Michelle Obama since Mr. Obama was the Democratic Party nominee.

And of course they have paid no price for their ungracious and ungentlemanly behavior because Republican.

I recall that white dudes on both sides of the aisle ran nobly and chivalrously to the defense of Sarah Palin when any criticism was leveled at her, back before she made it unavoidably clear that she was out there. Those same dudes have had little to say for the past 8 years when Republicans have said horrible things about the Michelle Obama who is, in my not so humble opinion, one of the best humans on the planet.

Funny how that happens.
posted by lord_wolf at 5:26 PM on November 14, 2016 [47 favorites]

I supported the democratic party 100% in the lead-up to this election and for the past couple years. I voted even in the municipal elections and donated to my candidates. I wanted Hillary to win with all my heart. I knew it was the only way forward.

But I have to admit in the aftermath I am feeling very distant from the democratic party. Even from pantsuit nation. I see a lot of people talking about 2018, and organizing for the next battle like this is just another election. I see democratic leadership encouraging calm and patience. I see a lot of normalization. I see appeasement. I see collaboration.

It's debatable if this election was free and fair, considering the voter suppression, but I don't think it's debatable that we will not see a free and fair election again for quite some time. I don't think there will be a game in 2018. I definitely don't think there will be a game in 2020.

I think from here on out, we're fighting fascism, we're fighting Nazis, and they don't care about our petitions and our phone calls. I think we survive and we protect the vulnerable. I don't think we play politics and see what happens two or four years down the road.

And I'm remembering now that the democrats betrayed me and my generation, too. I'm remembering an election where climate change was barely mentioned and meanwhile the temperatures keep rising. The current generation of democratic leadership might be dead by the time the planet becomes unlivable. I won't be. They stole my future.

I'm not playing their game anymore, I'm not complacent, I'm not going to collaborate. I'm fighting from the outside now, because I don't really see them fighting at all.
posted by the turtle's teeth at 5:30 PM on November 14, 2016 [14 favorites]

Giuliani is at least theoretically qualified for AG, even if he would be terrible and actively harm people. His qualifications for State are basically "won't shut up about 9/11."
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 5:30 PM on November 14, 2016 [12 favorites]

But I have to admit in the aftermath I am feeling very distant from the democratic party. Even from pantsuit nation. I see a lot of people talking about 2018, and organizing for the next battle like this is just another election. I see democratic leadership encouraging calm and patience. I see a lot of normalization. I see appeasement. I see collaboration.

I want to say, for a lot of the 2018-talkers, we're 100% wary of the worst-case-scenario stuff. But we also want to make sure all the normal opposition-party items are wrangled. Both parts are important.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 5:35 PM on November 14, 2016 [15 favorites]

The AP is reporting Giuliani is the favored name for Secretary of State.

How would that going to even work? He can't talk straight. He's just going to freak out the rest of the world. He'd be like the nutty American guy that you have to talk too but everyone makes rolly eyes at each other when he's not looking. And then the meeting is over and the whole world decides that the party is at this restaurant and send him to one one the other side of town. Then they all sit over beers and makes the actual real decisions while the American guy drives all over town in a taxi trying to find out where everyone went.
posted by Jalliah at 5:36 PM on November 14, 2016 [16 favorites]

Holy cow. I'm a sometimes inarticulate, conflict-averse introvert with massive social awkwardness and paralyzing stage fright in performance or confrontational situations. And I'd make a better Secretary of State than Rudy Giuliani.

Hillary must be (bitterly) laughing her fucking ass off at that prospect, in between downing Jello shots.
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:40 PM on November 14, 2016 [22 favorites]

The AP is reporting Giuliani is the favored name for Secretary of State.

The most important decisions you make in a leadership position - the ones that tell everyone the most about your competence - are who you choose to hire for your jobs.

I think Trump's decisions have already demonstrated that we don't need to seriously wait to see how he's going to do. Start fighting now. He is not a legitimate president and shouldn't be treated as such.

Putin allegedly wanted to make American democracy look ineffective and broken. Mission accomplished.
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:43 PM on November 14, 2016 [18 favorites]

Man I would have Jello shots with a Hillary Clinton a week into a failed Presidential bid before beer with any of the clowns in the new administration
posted by zutalors! at 5:44 PM on November 14, 2016 [15 favorites]

I expect it would work about like this:

Iran: "What do you propose to do about our planned changes?"

Guilani: "9-11?"
posted by Archelaus at 5:45 PM on November 14, 2016 [3 favorites]

The AP is reporting Giuliani is the favored name for Secretary of State.

How would that going to even work? He can't talk straight. He's just going to freak out the rest of the world. He'd be like the nutty American guy that you have to talk too but everyone makes rolly eyes at each other when he's not looking.

The other name being bandied about is John Bolton, so apparently 'freaking out the rest of the world' is the order of the day.
posted by snuffleupagus at 5:47 PM on November 14, 2016

You forgot the noun and the verb
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:47 PM on November 14, 2016 [1 favorite]

That's fucking terrifying. Guiliani will recommend we bomb pretty much anyone "because 9/11."
posted by TwoStride at 5:47 PM on November 14, 2016

WTF. Even Michelle Obama is the target of openly racist dehumanizing hate speech now.

In trying to make sense of all of this, I'm sort of able to articulate one of the things that's bothering me. I generally believe that most people are good at their core, but it's impossible to reconcile that with the racism and misogyny and homophobia and xenophobia I've always known is out there, but has become more visible this past year, and this past week. So I think there's a flip side to the idea that most people are good at their core, and that's that most people have one or two things they really want to do or say -- things they know would be inappropriate or criminal or otherwise despicable -- but we generally know better. We generally know not to shoplift that thing we can't afford (even though it would be so easy to get away with it), not to steal from the tip jar (even though no one is looking), not to call someone ugly names (even though no one else is around to hear). We usually know better, but that all goes out the window when someone with more authority than you tells you it's okay. If the security guard indicates that he'll look the other way, why not shoplift? If the bartender tells you she's pissed off at her coworkers and will look the other way, why not steal the tip pool? And if a major party presidential candidate -- then president-elect -- does everything possible to signify that he's not going to stop people from acting on the hatred he's stirred up, people are going to do it. If you're given even tacit permission to do that thing you usually can't get away with, it's like a fucking snow day.

And that's why who sits in the Oval Office and who serves in the Cabinet are scary to me, but they aren't the scariest part of all of this. The scariest part is that people with deep-seated hatred of whatever group feel emboldened, and sanctioned, to act on it.

Michelle Obama is the most blemish-less public figure we have. There is no basis to criticize her, except the color of her skin. They're emboldened, and it makes me sick.

It feels very defeating.
posted by mudpuppie at 5:47 PM on November 14, 2016 [35 favorites]

CNN The alt-right heads to the White House

Bannon, in any other administration, likely would not have passed muster.
He was once charged with domestic violence, allegedly objected to his daughters attending a school because of the number of Jewish students enrolled and ran a website that stoked racial fears, engaged in blatant misogyny and peddled conspiracy theories.
But beyond his biographical bullet points, it's Bannon's quiet encouragement of Republican infighting through Breitbart and his championing of hardline conservative policy prescriptions that may prove intrusive to Trump's efforts to pass legislation with a slim Republican majority in Congress.
While Republican leaders are finding comfort in Trump naming RNC Chairman Reince Priebus to the top post of White House chief of staff, the press release announcing the appointments noted the two men will be "equal partners." And Bannon was listed first in the statement.

posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:48 PM on November 14, 2016 [1 favorite]

I'm fighting from the outside now, because I don't really see them fighting at all.

Good luck. The important thing is to keep fighting and not give up. There is a role for both folks on the inside and outside.
posted by FJT at 5:49 PM on November 14, 2016 [5 favorites]

Are there any Republican leaders going "what-the-ever-living-fuck is happening"? Because seriously, what is happening. Where is the pushback from those vocal rally-goers about getting rid of insiders? What do their facebook feeds look like now? Does any of this matter to them?

Where are all those "they're not racist, really, they voted for other reasons" folks making their disappointment known? Are they waiting to give Giuliani a chance too? Let's just give Bannon a chance, see how things pan out, who knows, miracles could be produced? Where are those moderate "I just can't fill in the oval for Clinton, I'm not a bad person" conservatives and how are they reacting to this hijacking of their party?

This is part outrage and part honestly wanting to know, where are these fucking people.
posted by erratic meatsack at 5:51 PM on November 14, 2016 [22 favorites]

There is some good news. The ACLU is reporting the greatest outpouring of support in their entire history-- even greater than after 9/11
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:51 PM on November 14, 2016 [44 favorites]

AP: Trump considering woman, openly gay man for leadership posts

Remember that W. had Colin Powell and Condi, Alberto Gonzales and John Yoo. It's not so much a Trump thing as it is a general Republican thing to do this sort of tokenism. Though it is a bit "only Nixon could go to China" in terms of the Grenell pick.
posted by Apocryphon at 5:52 PM on November 14, 2016 [2 favorites]

There is some good news. The ACLU is reporting the greatest outpouring of support in their entire history-- even greater than after 9/11

This is very good, but please, please support your local organizations as well who aren't well funded.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:54 PM on November 14, 2016 [4 favorites]

The other name being bandied about is John Bolton, so apparently 'freaking out the rest of the world' is the order of the day.

And I can't decide which one would be 'better', even in the relative sense of it.
posted by Jalliah at 5:57 PM on November 14, 2016 [2 favorites]

And I can't decide which one would be 'better', even in the relative sense of it.

I had a similar reaction to the rumor that he was considering a Wall Street guy who helped get us into the 2008 crash for Treasury Secretary: "Well... that's awful, but at least even if he does things that are bad for the economy in the long term, he'll understand that he's doing them..."
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 6:01 PM on November 14, 2016 [2 favorites]

@WSJPolitics Is Russia a friend or adversary? Both says Giuliani. "It's an adversary because we made it that way" [twitter link takes you to video with Giuliani and Conway]

We have always been at war friends with Eastasia
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:02 PM on November 14, 2016 [4 favorites]

And I can't decide which one would be 'better', even in the relative sense of it.

It's like a game of Would You Rather? that stumps us all.
posted by emjaybee at 6:03 PM on November 14, 2016 [2 favorites]

Somewhere deep in the Kremlin there's an old 486 PC with a handwritten sticker that says "Trump/Giuliani Geopolitical Game Theory Solver"
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 6:04 PM on November 14, 2016 [6 favorites]

Shout out to Canadians here. Like expected it's leaking north. We're likely going to have to work to stem it as much as we can.

This my current level of response: $&%&% (redacted) $^$^$^%$

Posters In Toronto Are Encouraging White People To “Join The Alt-Right”
posted by Jalliah at 6:05 PM on November 14, 2016 [3 favorites]

I really liked this:
What to Do About Trump? The Same Thing My Grandfather Did in 1930s Vienna.

[...] Which leads me to the third principle, the one hardest to grasp: Refuse to accept what’s going on as the new normal. Not now, not ever. In the months and years to come, decisions will be made that may strike you as perfectly sound, appointments announced that are inspired, and policies enacted you may even like. Friends and pundits will reach out to you and, invoking nuance, urge you to admit that there’s really nothing to fear, that things are more complex, that nothing is ever black or white. It’s a perfectly sound argument, of course, but it’s also dead wrong: This isn’t about policy or appointments or even about outcomes. This isn’t a political contest—it’s a moral crisis. When an inexperienced, thin-skinned demagogue rides into office by explaining away immensely complex problems while arguing that our national glory demands we strip millions of their dignity or their rights, our only duty is to resist by whatever means permitted us by law. The demagogue may boost the economy, sign beneficial treaties, and mend our ailing institutions, but his success can never be ours. Our greatness, to use a tired but true phrase, depends on our goodness, and to succeed, we must demand that our commander in chief come as close as is possible to reflecting the light of that goodness.

posted by Joe in Australia at 6:06 PM on November 14, 2016 [63 favorites]

our only duty is to resist by whatever means permitted us by law

I object. Should be, "by whatever means permitted by your principles."

to be a righteous voice raised against injustice should it arise.

I think it's safe to say we've blown past that gate already.
posted by perspicio at 6:15 PM on November 14, 2016 [3 favorites]

Are there any Republican leaders going "what-the-ever-living-fuck is happening"?

Not really, publicly. It's interesting, though, that if you watch Paul Ryan's (slimy, unctuous -- oh wait, it's Ryan, so that's redundant) CNN interview from yesterday, it goes pretty much like this the whole time:

Jake Tapper: So, President-Elect Trump says he wants to do X. What say you?
Ryan: Yeah, no fucking way we're doing X.
Tapper: Trump completely refused to consider Y.
Ryan: We'll be doing so, so much Y.

Not that he's a leader or has one iota of integrity or public service in his entire granny-starving body, but I don't know that he and Trump will be playing nicely together at all. Of course, he doesn't give a shit if Trump appoints Nosferatu and Cruella DeVille to the cabinet since it has no impact on his horrid legislative agenda.

I suspect that Trump will try to get his gross, abysmal cabinet choices approved by promising to screw the Republican Senate on Supreme Court picks otherwise. After the Garland thing, it would almost be amusing to see him just decline to nominate anyone until they play ball -- if it didn't decimate actual people's lives.

Btw, I'm pretty sure that if you look into Paul Ryan's eyes for more than a few seconds, he can hypnotize you like a cobra.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:15 PM on November 14, 2016 [8 favorites]

Posters In Toronto Are Encouraging White People To “Join The Alt-Right”

And the election has led to a small disaster in my own personal life. I for the first time ever posted a comment on Buzzfeed...

I'm consoling myself that it took this serious an issue to prompt it and not being upset with someone's bad cookie recipe.
posted by Jalliah at 6:17 PM on November 14, 2016 [5 favorites]

WSJ Rudy Giuliani Says Defeating ISIS to Be Early Focus of Donald Trump’s Foreign Policy

Mr. Giuliani didn’t say, however, what specifically the Trump administration would do to combat Islamic State, also called ISIS or ISIL. Mr. Trump has repeatedly said he wants to keep this strategy secret so that the terror network can’t prepare for it.

Mr. Giuliani also said that the Trump administration would work to reset relations with both Russia and China. He said the Obama administration had made Russia into an adversary and said Russian President Vladimir Putin didn't respect President Barack Obama. Messrs. Trump and Putin spoke on the telephone on Monday and pledged to work together on a number of issues.

I can't wait to see how the Trump Secret Plan to Defeat ISIS unfolds. After all, DJT knows more than the generals.

Also this idea that the Obama administration made Russia an enemy and Putin does not respect President Obama is such an astonishing statement that I wonder his body didn't spontaneously combust. It is so loaded with nuggets of bullshit: Russia has only recently become our adversary, Obama bases his foreign policy on his personal likes and dislikes, DJT knows exactly what Putin is thinking-- that it reeks to high heaven. Yet somehow I imagine that Guiliani savored that shit sandwich as it exited his mouth.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:25 PM on November 14, 2016 [3 favorites]

THE NEW YORK TIMES JUST GAVE TRUMP A GIANT F*CK YOU AFTER HIS EARLY MORNING MELTDOWN

But if he thought these rants and threats would get the paper to budge, he was sorely mistaken. First in a statement to readers then on Twitter, The New York Times sent a powerful message: Take your threats and shove it. We’ve got reporting to do. And readers want to hear it.

As we reflect on the momentous result, and the months of reporting and polling that preceded it, we aim to rededicate ourselves to the fundamental mission of Times journalism. That is to report America and the world honestly, without fear or favor, striving always to understand and reflect all political perspectives and life experiences in the stories that we bring to you. It is also to hold power to account, impartially and unflinchingly. You can rely on The New York Times to bring the same fairness, the same level of scrutiny, the same independence to our coverage of the new president and his team.


They also called “bullshit” on Trump’s lie that the paper was losing readers due to reporting on Trump. In fact, subscriptions are flooding in. The Times tweeted out a message from assistant masthead editor for the NYT Clifford Levy pointing out the inconvenient truth

--------

Even factoring in cancellations, The Times says it has a net gain of four times as many readers since Election Day. They then took it a step further, tweeting a factcheck directly to Trump.
posted by Jalliah at 6:26 PM on November 14, 2016 [23 favorites]

Can we go back to the economic concerns of the working class for a minute? Because people I haven't seen since like, my first year of high school have crawled out of the woodwork to berate me about how they voted purely on an economic basis and it's not racism to want to feed your families and why can't we just give the guy a chance? I've read a lot during this election about the forgotten WWC and their Bleaksville lives ever since the fake dog poo factory shut down, so I've really put a lot of effort into grokking this economic argument.

The trouble is, I'm one of the white (or pink? maybe light pink?)-collar precariat, like lots of Americans. My master's degree barely gets me $22k a year in academic serfdom. So when I read that these people in middle America are so angry, I'm really irritated. Yes, I know you used to be able to raise a family of 4 on the income from one unskilled manufacturing job. You also used to have people whose entire job purpose was to type things for other people. That doesn't exist anymore because employers expect everyone to do their own typing. Lots of things have changed. Do people seriously expect to make $75k a year with only a high school diploma when the country is full of Millennials with college degrees that are happy if they can get $30k a year? Doing what? What, exactly, do they think the president can do to compel employers to pay these tremendous wages?

The flip side of these hand-wringing articles is how it's a wound to the dignity of proud working class people to take "government handouts" (excepting, of course, Medicare, housing tax credits, disability etc), and what they really want is to go back to the days when they made middle class wages for doing unskilled labor. So how does this fit with rah-rah capitalism? Whose responsibility is it to ensure high-paying jobs? Businesses have no obligation to do so. These are the same people who rail against single-payer, who have bought the Republican free-market unfettered capitalism ideology hook, line & sinker. These people, I believe, will NEVER support guaranteed basic incomes. They don't want the money, they want the narrative of being self-made, of pulling up by one's bootstraps to a position that lets them look down upon anyone further down.

It's interesting to see Trumpism framed as a reaction against neoliberalism. What do they expect to replace neoliberalism with? The Republicans won't ever capitulate to protectionist tariffs and curtailed economic growth as Berlusconi did in Italy. There's too much profit at stake for the wealthy, so we're back to a position where people think they're revolting against the system, but they've picked the wrong targets entirely. If Trumpers were serious about economics and the ravages of neoliberalism, they would have been paying attention to the G8 protests, Occupy Wall street, etc. The same people on my Facebook feed rushing to defend their man with cries of "economics!" gave zero fucks about Occupy. They didn't even notice when GW Bush was crashing the economy into a ditch.
posted by Kitty Stardust at 6:27 PM on November 14, 2016 [84 favorites]

Does this mean the NYT will start calling Bannon "white supremacist" instead of "provacateur"? Cause then I might buy a fucking subscription after all.
posted by emjaybee at 6:32 PM on November 14, 2016 [14 favorites]

If you're given even tacit permission to do that thing you usually can't get away with, it's like a fucking snow day.

Um, no. Some of us try to be decent people even if nobody's watching. Even if we could "get away with it." Integrity is not based on what you don't get caught doing, but what kind of person you are when the ruling authority doesn't forbid being vicious to each other.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 6:35 PM on November 14, 2016 [8 favorites]

WSJ Rudy Giuliani Says Defeating ISIS to Be Early Focus of Donald Trump’s Foreign Policy

So what might very well happen is that the Iraqi military and the Kurdish peshmerga will retake Mosul, while the SDF, the Syrian army, and various Turkish-backed rebels will attack Raqqa with both American and Russian airpower and support. So the Islamic State proper gets wiped out before mid-2017, and Trump will have claimed the work of both Obama and everyone who actually bled and died to achieve it.
posted by Apocryphon at 6:37 PM on November 14, 2016 [4 favorites]

@SimonWDC
Biggest gains for Democrats in 2016 - TX, CA, AZ
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/133Eb4qQmOxNvtesw2hdVns073R68EZx4SfCnP4IGQf8/edit#gid=19

@mattklewis Retweeted Simon Rosenberg
Big long-term problem for the GOP if they trade the sun belt for the rust belt.
posted by chris24 at 6:38 PM on November 14, 2016 [4 favorites]

Times of San Diego Facebook Threats to Kill Donald Trump Get Del Mar-based CEO Suspended

A San Diego-area cybersecurity firm announced Monday the suspension of its chief executive over social media comments he made about assassinating President-elect Donald Trump.

PacketSled President and CEO Matt Harrigan admitted to posting the seemingly threatening rhetoric — including the statement, “I’m going to kill the president. Elect.” — on his Facebook page as voting results were coming in Tuesday night, though he would later describe his remarks as a “flawed joke.”

The Del Mar-based company posted a statement on its website stating that it “takes recent comments made by our CEO seriously.”

“Once we were made aware of these comments, we immediately reported this information to the Secret Service and will cooperate fully with any inquiries. These comments do not reflect the views or opinions of PacketSled, its employees, investors or partners. Our CEO has been placed on administrative leave.”

In Harrigan’s online rant, which was subsequently deleted but later reappeared in screenshots on Reddit, he wrote that he would be “getting a sniper rifle and perching myself where it counts.”

Apparently addressing Trump, the post continued, “Find a bedroom in the whitehouse (sic) that suits you (expletive). I’ll find you.”

When a Facebook friend suggested that the comments could provoke a federal investigation, Harrigan replied, “Bring it. Bring it secret service.”

Harrigan also posted, “In no uncertain terms, f— you America. Seriously. F— off,” and “Really San Diego? Trump? Go f— yourself San Diego.”

Sounds like a drunken rant to me.

Kitty Stardust: So how does this fit with rah-rah capitalism? Whose responsibility is it to ensure high-paying jobs? Businesses have no obligation to do so. These are the same people who rail against single-payer, who have bought the Republican free-market unfettered capitalism ideology hook, line & sinker. These people, I believe, will NEVER support guaranteed basic incomes.

You nailed it. This is what we have all been scratching our heads over. DJT says he will bring their jobs back, but what jobs? How? It is impossible. If iPhones were made in the United States do you think anyone could afford to buy one? If Oreo cookies reopen their factories do you think that the people working there would get high wages and great benefits? DJT just made pronouncements like "Elect me and all your dreams will come true"[real] and people decided that sounded good to them. No critical thinking skills. No imagination to look beyond the promises. No attempt to do anything beside listen to his voice. It's maddening.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:38 PM on November 14, 2016 [9 favorites]

@jameshohmann
Los Angeles Police Department will not help deport immigrants under Trump, chief tells LA Times.
posted by chris24 at 6:39 PM on November 14, 2016 [30 favorites]

I really don't get the Putin-love that so many Republicans seem to be have. My father told me yesterday that Putin is just a much better leader than Obama because he's clearly so much smarter. I said that Putin's sole goal seemed to be creating chaos in the West, perhaps to hide the shortcomings of his own failed state. When my dad repeated the line about being a better leader, I pointed out that the average life expectancy of a Russian was nearly ten years less than the average life expectancy of an American, and the only meaningful measure of the success of a leader was in the quality of life of the people they serve. He then mumbled something about how lives have always "worth less" in Russia, but it was clear that I had struck something.

Or at least I'd like to think so.
posted by Slothrup at 6:41 PM on November 14, 2016 [6 favorites]

NPR's Master Class in Whitewashing the Steve Bannon Appointment

CAN WE GIVE UP ON NPR NEWS NOW

ASKING FOR A FRIEND
posted by petebest at 6:42 PM on November 14, 2016 [11 favorites]

Putin is a White, Christian Autocrat. That's it.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:43 PM on November 14, 2016 [5 favorites]

Well, I canceled my NYT subscription on Wednesday and included a stern letter to the editors saying that I considered them complicit in Trump's election for treating him as a serious equivalent candidate to Clinton. So they may well have picked up a few new readers, but I'm sure I'm not the first to leave.

(I should have unsubscribed earlier but thought I'd enjoy reading about Hillary's victory. Fool me once, etc.)
posted by vickyverky at 6:43 PM on November 14, 2016 [4 favorites]

Does this mean the NYT will start calling Bannon "white supremacist" instead of "provacateur"? Cause then I might buy a fucking subscription after all.

Yeah, I prefer the plain language. "Provacateur" vaguely sounds like he (Bannon) is teasing us with some kind of fan dance.

(And I want to see that in a cartoon.)
posted by puddledork at 6:44 PM on November 14, 2016

Seriously, it would be nice if these economic anxiety people realized that they don't want free-market solutions. They want regulations to keep businesses from screwing them.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 6:45 PM on November 14, 2016 [26 favorites]

Jalliah:

Propagating Alt-Right activism in Toronto seems like a moronic non-starter. How can that have any traction in a city that is almost exactly half PoC? Assuming that at least a fraction of the white people in Toronto will repudiate such ideology, you're looking at a pretty fringe movement almost by default. They can go and fuck themselves, really. It's so amusingly impotent that they think they can do anything.

I'm so eager for the day that America & Canada both are minority white. I really want a painfully unquestionable, profound demographic reckoning to land on these people. There's a dark part of me that wants to see so many white people denied work, chased out of town, denied housing, in a biblical-reckoning style conflagration. I don't even care if that would impact me negatively. The schadenfreude would set me alight with joy regardless.
posted by constantinescharity at 6:46 PM on November 14, 2016 [7 favorites]

I don't know that people expect to make $75k a year; they want to be able to make enough to rent a house, get a car, things like that. In a lot of the country that doesn't take $75k.

People making under $50k/year voted very solidly for Hillary. So yes, we're looking at people who make $50k a year and up, who think they're being ripped off and not making enough. We're looking at people who make $85k a year and think they deserve $125k. They have enough to make house and car payments but their health insurance is very expensive - by which I mean, they can't afford it AND vacations to Europe a couple times a year.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 6:47 PM on November 14, 2016 [15 favorites]

Yep, if the Democrats gain the sun belt and based upon the shifts in voting patterns that seems likely the Republican party is going to have some significant challenges moving forward.

Atlanta, Houston, Dallas are becoming incredibly Democratic. Phoenix and Denver and Las Vegas are following that trend as well.

Thus far the rest of Texas is negating the urban areas and the Valley but Republicans are losing ground. It's primarily the insanely high costs of the Texas media markets and the challenges for Voter registration that are postponing the inevitable.

Needless to say I anticipate the Rust Belt to start having some extreme buyers remorse before too long as well.
posted by vuron at 6:51 PM on November 14, 2016 [4 favorites]

Slothrup: I really don't get the Putin-love that so many Republicans seem to be have. My father told me yesterday that Putin is just a much better leader than Obama because he's clearly so much smarter.

Putin, while not a Communist in the ideological sense, has a place he's coming from (Foreign Policy article with a one-time paywall warning but should be accessible):

But Yeltsin’s team never formed a clear strategy for how to transform what had once been the secret services of a totalitarian state into the intelligence community of a democracy.Yeltsin’s team never formed a clear strategy for how to transform what had once been the secret services of a totalitarian state into the intelligence community of a democracy. In a 1993 executive decree, Yeltsin lamented, reeling off a list of acronyms for various incarnations of the security agencies, that “the system of the Cheka-OGPU-NKVD-MGB-NGKB-KGB-MB turned out to be incapable of being reformed. Reorganization efforts in recent years were external and cosmetic in nature.… The system of political investigation is preserved and may easily be restored.”

It was a prescient comment: By the mid-1990s, various component parts and functions of the old KGB had begun to make their way back to the FSK, like the liquid metal of the killer T-1000 android in Terminator 2: Judgment Day, slowly reconstituting itself after having been blown to bits.

First to return was the power to conduct domestic investigations. In November 1994, Yeltsin restored the investigative directorate of the FSK and placed the infamous Lefortovo prison, which had once held political prisoners and had been used for interrogations that involved torture, back under its remit. The next year saw a crucial name change: The FSK was rechristened the FSB. The shift from “K” (kontrrazvedka, or counterintelligence) to “B” (bezopasnost, or security) was more than cosmetic; with the new name came a broad mandate for the FSB to become the guardian of “security” for Russia.

Over the course of the next five years, the FSB would win back many of its old functions. It would once again be given responsibility for pursuing dissidents, who were now branded “extremists,” and would be given its own foreign intelligence directorate, duplicating the SVR’s.

When Putin came to power in 2000, he initially appeared to follow the route laid out by his predecessor, Yeltsin. His main concern, at least at first, seemed to be minimizing competition between the secret services; as a result, in 2003, he allowed the FSB to absorb responsibility for the border troops and FAPSI — the electronic intelligence agency — and gave the service expanded powers over the army and police.

But the president, himself a former KGB officer, was too taken in by KGB myths about the role of the Cheka in Russian society to be satisfied with the FSB being a mere security organ. He was determined to see it become something bigger. Putin encouraged a steady growth in the agency’s influence. The president began using the FSB as his main recruitment base for filling key positions in government and state-controlled business; its agents were expected to define and personify the ideology of the new Russia. When FSB Director Nikolai Patrushev, in December 2000, called his officers Russia’s “new ‘nobility’” — a nickname that agents in the KGB could have hardly dreamed of being applied to them — he was taking a cue from his boss.

So, I guess for the Republican-minded relative who's saying "Putin doesn't seem so bad," the response should be "Does the notion of Soviet secret police bother you? Because that's what Putin has modeled his state security apparatus on."
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 6:51 PM on November 14, 2016 [5 favorites]

"Multiple vacations in a year" is a hell of a reach there.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 6:52 PM on November 14, 2016 [3 favorites]

@KyleOrl
For anyone interested in keeping track of the real popular vote totals, which Clinton seems set to win by 2M+ https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/1/d/[...]
posted by chris24 at 6:52 PM on November 14, 2016 [4 favorites]

As You Know, Bob, the Democratic candidate, despite being largely despised by the general public for more than two decades, still won the election by more than two million votes. Every single election since 2010 has been gerrymandered to death - in 2014, 1.2 million more votes went to Democratic congressional candidates than their Reichist rivals. I can only assume more votes went that way in a Presidential year, for chrissake Dems picked up two senate seats, despite about the worst candidate ever to ever ham-hand a campaign in an angry, workers-in-revolt we-want-change year. (Historians a hundred years from now, in their animal skins and with their bone rattles high in isolated mountain caves, will be giggling at the stupidity of it all.)

We have a no-kidding illegitimate President. He did not get the most votes. We have a no-kidding illegitimate congress - neither the House nor Senate is represented fairly by the American People.

We have a no-kidding illegitimate Judiciary, as the 2-illigit-2-quit Congress refused to confirm Obama's nominees, some of them for yeaaaaaars at a time.

And you're all like, let's make more white middle class people be ashamed to be white middle class?

Intersectionality is tough. We have failed to make the struggles of white men the same struggle as those of women, POC and immigrants. We have blamed them, and made them an evil outsider in our narrative, even as they are dying in astonishing numbers and their families are slipping into the poverty cycle. No wonder they stayed home when we needed them most.

Trump didn't win because our allies became our enemies due to racism (they elected a black guy with the middle name of "Hussein" twice, by double digits) nor sexism (Nikki Haley, Sarah Goddamn Palin, I mean, Madam Scty. Palin.)

No. Trump won because Hillary was a terrible candidate who could not communicate clearly to her core constituency.

We can't talk to people who have likely never met a Black or Hispanic person in their life, except for that one time at the Sheetz, about how much they are terrible and evil for hating people who are largely an abstract. We can't talk to them about their privilege when they are shuttering the shop their Dad left them that their Great Grandad opened, and had to bury their brother because Fentanyl.

Intersectionality is a large pill to swallow when looking at it from the other end of the microscope. White working men are being exploited just as hard, but in different ways. One of those is as an easy patsy, a goon, a willing henchman. Shove someone into that role hard enough from either end, and they may just decide to fill it. We must offer them a way out.

Make their pain our pain, and have a succinct and lucid diagnosis, and a clear path of treatment, and we will win.

Also we need to tell him Paul Ryan is trying to take away his aged mother's Medicare, because Paul Ryan actually is.
posted by Slap*Happy at 6:55 PM on November 14, 2016 [6 favorites]

I really don't get the Putin-love that so many Republicans seem to be have. My father told me yesterday that Putin is just a much better leader than Obama because he's clearly so much smarter. I said that Putin's sole goal seemed to be creating chaos in the West, perhaps to hide the shortcomings of his own failed state. When my dad repeated the line about being a better leader, I pointed out that the average life expectancy of a Russian was nearly ten years less than the average life expectancy of an American, and the only meaningful measure of the success of a leader was in the quality of life of the people they serve. He then mumbled something about how lives have always "worth less" in Russia, but it was clear that I had struck something.

Or at least I'd like to think so.

My going thesis which I have on a list to explore more is that Putin love started gaining force in a big way in Right Wing world because of Obama. The Right tends towards more views of authoritarian views of leadership, masculine views of leadership, fathers as great leaders sort of thinking. The office of the President, the most powerful job and leader in the world is a symbol of such leadership. Then a black guy got put in there. This puts a jimmy in the whole masculine (white) myth and symbolism of the leader because...racism. So the Right started looking for someone else, a great 'white' masculine leader and Putin loving took off and has just built on itself from there.
posted by Jalliah at 6:57 PM on November 14, 2016 [3 favorites]

Can we go back to the economic concerns of the working class for a minute? Because people I haven't seen since like, my first year of high school have crawled out of the woodwork to berate me about how they voted purely on an economic basis...

Hmmm...maybe they should've voted for Ms. Raise Minimum Wage to $15/Hour instead of Mr. Wages Are Too High.
posted by kirkaracha at 6:57 PM on November 14, 2016 [21 favorites]

So how does this fit with rah-rah capitalism?

It doesn't. Hence the National Socialism.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:59 PM on November 14, 2016

Mod note: Couple deleted. Slap*Happy, don't pick a fight here.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 7:00 PM on November 14, 2016 [3 favorites]

Russia is a failed petrostate run by an Authoritarian cabal focused primarily on enrichment of their own bank accounts.

Putin and Russia might have delusions if grandeur but there doesn't appear to be a Renaissance of the Soviet Union anytime soon despite the various attempts to regain hegemony over their previous satellite states.

Putin's ability to buy off his own population is still somewhat in place but Russia is extremely dependent on selling natural gas to the EU.
posted by vuron at 7:01 PM on November 14, 2016 [3 favorites]

> Propagating Alt-Right activism in Toronto seems like a moronic non-starter. How can that have any traction in a city that is almost exactly half PoC?

Toronto elected Rob Ford mayor.

Also though more broadly there is a rising wave of fascism across the globe. Nowhere is immune, not even Canada.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 7:03 PM on November 14, 2016 [7 favorites]

The other name being bandied about is John Bolton, so apparently 'freaking out the rest of the world' is the order of the day.

Ah, the man who once said, "The Secretariat building in New York has 38 stories. If it lost ten stories, it wouldn't make a bit of difference." And then George W. Bush nominated for U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations. Yes, he's Mr. Diplomacy.
The Democrats in the Senate blocked him so Bush did a recess appointment.

MetaFilter: a failed petrostate run by an Authoritarian cabal focused primarily on enrichment of their own bank accounts.
posted by kirkaracha at 7:03 PM on November 14, 2016 [1 favorite]

We can't talk to people who have likely never met a Black or Hispanic person in their life, except for that one time at the Sheetz, about how much they are terrible and evil for hating people who are largely an abstract

This seems like a comment For White People By White People, because Black and Hispanic people are well aware they are not an abstract. It would be great if we could acknowledge that for some people, denying their humanity is not academic.
posted by zutalors! at 7:04 PM on November 14, 2016 [20 favorites]

My going thesis which I have on a list to explore more is that Putin love started gaining force in a big way in Right Wing world because of Obama. The Right tends towards more views of authoritarian views of leadership, masculine views of leadership, fathers as great leaders sort of thinking

The thing I'd add to that is that Russian state-controlled media wasn't quite always so post-1991. Putin went after certain oligarchs because they had media operations where they were just interested in what sells - showing the war in Chechnya, satirizing government figures and failures, etc.):

St. Petersburg, September 22, 2000 --- The frenzy of media activity in Russia during the Kursk submarine disaster has again focused attention on the state of the Russian press. Some have expressed the hope that President Vladimir Putin, having been stung by the sharp public criticism of his government's handling of the crisis, has learned a lesson in democratic leadership and will consequently encourage more official openness.

Don't count on it. In his first major public pronouncement after the crisis, Putin castigated private media for using the disaster to "gain political capital or secure some group interests." The smart money is on the former KGB bureaucrat concluding that state management of the press must be more formally institutionalized than it has been to date.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 7:04 PM on November 14, 2016

Trump didn't win because our allies became our enemies due to racism (they elected a black guy with the middle name of "Hussein" twice, by double digits) nor sexism (Nikki Haley, Sarah Goddamn Palin, I mean, Madam Scty. Palin.)

No. Trump won because Hillary was a terrible candidate who could not communicate clearly to her core constituency.

Bullshit. It's completely possible for people to vote for Obama and still be racists. If I need to link to Jamelle Bouie's article again or any one of a many tweetstorms from black writers, liking or tolerating one black guy after the great recession over mediocre competition doesn't mean you're not racist, especially after 8 years of that black guy being demonized and othered, and your racism stoked.

Trump won because Clinton's 2 million vote lead happened to be very badly located by a tiny percent in a few places. And the only reason she was susceptible to that bad luck was because of unprecedented ratfucking by the FBI, Russia and Wikileaks. Every candidate is imperfect and every candidate makes mistakes, but no candidate has ever had to overcome what she did.

And fucking hilarious that you say misognyny is not a factor because of Palin & Co. That's like saying there's no sexism problem in the CEO suite because GE has a woman SVP.
posted by chris24 at 7:06 PM on November 14, 2016 [54 favorites]

As we reflect on the momentous result, and the months of reporting and polling that preceded it, we aim to rededicate ourselves to the fundamental mission of Times journalism. That is to report America and the world honestly, without fear or favor, striving always to understand and reflect all political perspectives and life experiences in the stories that we bring to you.

Aw, that's super.

It is also to hold power to account, impartially and unflinchingly. You can rely on The New York Times to bring the same fairness, the same level of scrutiny, the same independence to our coverage of the new president and his team.

"I'll provide the people of this city with a daily paper that will tell all the news honestly.
I will also provide them with a fighting and tireless champion of their rights as citizens and as human beings. Signed, Charles Foster Kane."

It's been done.
*raspberry*
posted by petebest at 7:08 PM on November 14, 2016 [6 favorites]

We can't talk to people who have likely never met a Black or Hispanic person in their life, except for that one time at the Sheetz, about how much they are terrible and evil for hating people who are largely an abstract.

Uh, yes we can? I mean I've never met a black person from Gabon or a Muslim person from Tunisa (that I know of) but I don't automatically hate them or think they're evil because...human being?

I get the whole abstraction thing but most of the world outside of ones personal everyday bubble is abstract and part of living in well in a society is learning that automatically hating people you don't know personally is like.. not a good way of being.
posted by Jalliah at 7:09 PM on November 14, 2016 [16 favorites]

The reason the American right thinks Putin is very good actually is precisely that he's a Soviet-style strongman...without the communism. The problem with communism was never the old imprison-your-political-enemies-and-relocate-whole-populations - you have only to look at US history! - the problem with the Soviet Union was that in addition to imprisoning political enemies and forcibly relocating whole populations, they also expropriated the wealthy, gave everybody a crack at going to school on the state's dime, put women in positions of relative power occasionally and made sure that everyone was housed and given medical care. The US is perfectly happy to befriend (or install) regimes that torture and murder dissidents and relocate whole populations; the only rule is that the common people shouldn't get anything out of the process.

Putin is homophobic, misogynist, violent and authoritarian - what's not to like?
posted by Frowner at 7:09 PM on November 14, 2016 [33 favorites]

Also though more broadly there is a rising wave of fascism across the globe. Nowhere is immune, not even Canada.

Also came in to say, yeah, Rob Ford. I'm not going to draw false equivalency and say that Canada is just as bad as the US. But it's not the real-life northern version of Jeb Bartlett's America, either, as quite a lot of us Americans seem to think. It can't happen here is just as untrue in Kitchener as it is in Kalamazoo.
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:11 PM on November 14, 2016 [6 favorites]

In case you weren't repulsed and terrified enough, remember that all the potential cabinet picks are from the GOP sewer trap, people who couldn't get traction with establishment candidates, and were selling their books and hanging out with people like Pamela Geller while relegated to the minor leagues of wingnut welfare.

They don't want the money, they want the narrative of being self-made, of pulling up by one's bootstraps to a position that lets them look down upon anyone further down.

I can sympathise with the "dignity of work" subgenre of that, at least in the abstract. But that circles back to Thomas Piketty on the idea that the post-WW2 era was an exception to a long historical narrative where capital isn't dominant over labour, perhaps because many of the Boomer labourers acquired small-scale capital in their homes.

In part it's temporarily-embarrassed millionaire territory. It's Joe the bloody Plumber again. But it's also Gwinnett County, where people want to be in the subdivision that's a little bit nicer and their kids in a school that's a little bit whiter.

If Oreo cookies reopen their factories do you think that the people working there would get high wages and great benefits?

Why did candy factories move to Canada and Mexico? Because the US has protectionist policies on sugar set to mollify the southern cane producers (ASR/Domino) and the beet growers of the midwest, and is also beholden to the corn-syrupers. There are a lot of people in Florida and Louisiana (with a lot of workers who ought to count as working class, except they're H-2A migrants) who don't want the Oreo factory back because it would mean an end to their price controls.
posted by holgate at 7:12 PM on November 14, 2016 [8 favorites]

The reason the American right thinks Putin is very good actually is precisely that he's a Soviet-style strongman...without the communism.

The decider without the pesky fourth estate!
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 7:12 PM on November 14, 2016 [1 favorite]

Ok, time for a ray of hope. The #nevertrump matriarch of my extended family just shut down her homophobic cousins. Her reasoning is a bit weird. My darling nibling has always been gender-nonconforming, so her response was (not a direct quote) "E. was born gay, and has always been gay, and he's beautiful." All of this was news to my partner, who has lived with having a Republican mom for over 40 years now to the point where I was warned it was an untouchable subject. (I don't know if E. is gay or just fabulous.)

If E. does come out at some point in the future, I'm going to congratulate him for having accomplished something before Middle School that I'm still not certain I've done as an adult.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 7:12 PM on November 14, 2016 [8 favorites]

Also came in to say, yeah, Rob Ford. I'm not going to draw false equivalency and say that Canada is just as bad as the US. But it's not the real-life northern version of Jeb Bartlett's America, either, as quite a lot of us Americans seem to think. It can't happen here is just as untrue in Kitchener as in Kalamazoo.

Yes, especially since one of our major political parties has a Trumpism lover running for it's leadership. No idea what chance she has in winning but if she does..it's here.
posted by Jalliah at 7:14 PM on November 14, 2016 [2 favorites]

We have blamed them, and made them an evil outsider in our narrative, even as they are dying in astonishing numbers and their families are slipping into the poverty cycle. No wonder they stayed home when we needed them most.


Trump voters were overwhelmingly white.
Trump voters tended to make over $50k.
Trump voters tended to be over 40 years old.

Source.

These older, well off, white people (and it was both white men and white women) listened to the vile, racist, misogynist and incoherent shit that the orange monster said and decided to vote for him anyhow, making them either evil for believing it or foolish for ignoring it. If those statistics don't depict a "got mine, screw you" mentality, a nostalgia for the "good old days" of racism and misogyny, what does?

How do you reach those people? Tough question. I fear they probably can't be reached; they appear to be entrenched in their thrones of privilege. On the plus side, however, they are not the majority of the US population, it's just that the US electoral college system gives them political power disproportionate to their population. Perhaps the system needs to be revised?
posted by dazed_one at 7:15 PM on November 14, 2016 [24 favorites]

Mr. Trump has repeatedly said he wants to keep this strategy secret so that the terror network can’t prepare for it.

jfc, this is the excuse you give your mom as a 5th grader who hasn't done their homework, "i can't show you my book report mom, it's, uh, it's gonna be a surprise!"

this is pretty much a thing that only a child thinks is a legit answer - actually, not even a legit answer, jut MAYBE something they can get away with if they say it cheekily enough

the president of the united states of america is going to be a man who literally cannot outsmart a 5th grader
posted by poffin boffin at 7:15 PM on November 14, 2016 [9 favorites]

im so excited to die in poverty of a treatable ailment way before he can kill us all
posted by poffin boffin at 7:16 PM on November 14, 2016 [10 favorites]

Propagating Alt-Right activism in Toronto seems like a moronic non-starter. How can that have any traction in a city that is almost exactly half PoC?


Putin has been funding this shit all over the world.

He'd fund Black Lives Matter activists too, simply out of a desire to get some "lets you and him fight" going, except there's no channel for him to send his money.

If he decides to make Canada go batshit, Canada will go batshit.
posted by ocschwar at 7:17 PM on November 14, 2016 [3 favorites]

Thing I'm wondering: is Trump thinking that giving his kids TS clearances means he can send them to work doing the new family business? "Jared, check out the briefing tomorrow morning with the Joint Chiefs. I'm going to chill here in Trump Tower."
posted by emelenjr at 7:19 PM on November 14, 2016 [1 favorite]

>He has repeatedly said he wants to keep this strategy secret so that the terror network can’t prepare for it.

1. there exists prior art for this: the "secret plan to win the war in Vietnam" that Nixon campaigned on
2. A small part of me thinks he does have a secret plan: indiscriminate nuclear attack.

posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 7:19 PM on November 14, 2016 [1 favorite]

If he decides to make Canada go batshit, Canada will go batshit.

And I hadn't thought of that. I probably would have eventually but yeah, you're right.

I'm sitting here right now wishing for the bliss of the ignorant.

Oh well. I guess if I end up having to fight Putin then that's what it is, isn't it.
posted by Jalliah at 7:22 PM on November 14, 2016

A large chunk of alt-right bullshit is based on the idea that straight white men are, in fact, an oppressed minority threatened with a cultural genocide and closet eugenics.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 7:23 PM on November 14, 2016 [15 favorites]

actually if I were writing dystopian scifi right now, I'd write a story where the current norm re: nuclear weapons ("no one uses nuclear weapons ever") was replaced with a new norm, wherein any one of Russia, China, and the United States can use nuclear weapons anywhere they want, so long as they clear it with the other two superpowers first.

that is melodramatic science fiction, though. I know that when someone tells you who they are you should trust them, and I know that he has said some phenomenally cavalier things about what he would do with access to nuclear weapons, but I just can't bring myself to honestly believe that he'd use them.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 7:23 PM on November 14, 2016 [1 favorite]

Putin has been funding this shit all over the world.

He'd fund Black Lives Matter activists too, simply out of a desire to get some "lets you and him fight" going, except there's no channel for him to send his money.

If he decides to make Canada go batshit, Canada will go batshit.

Putin is a bad man, but he's not omnipotent and he's not a perfect strategizer. Let's not attribute superhuman powers to anyone, be they ever so evil.
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:26 PM on November 14, 2016 [5 favorites]

Propagating Alt-Right activism in Toronto seems like a moronic non-starter. How can that have any traction in a city that is almost exactly half PoC?

Living here: you'd be surprised.

If he decides to make Canada go batshit, Canada will go batshit.

Hey, if he wanted to whip up hate against First Nations people, we're already 100% of the way there. We already ran a whole program of genocide.

Now the trick is just making straight white guys think they're on the receiving end of that to make them go batshit, it'd work. It doesn't take much to sell them.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 7:27 PM on November 14, 2016

FWIW: Greta Van Susteren is asking people for personal stories about the ACA. I'm only seeing it on my right-wing leaning friends' feeds, which worries me. Might be worth commenting if you have a good story.
posted by Mchelly at 7:36 PM on November 14, 2016 [2 favorites]

Trump voters were overwhelmingly white.
Trump voters tended to make over $50k.
Trump voters tended to be over 40 years old.

They still didn't have the votes! It was the demographic the We're With Her campaign abandoned, and they abandoned her right back, right in the strategic states. So Trump won on a Technicality. That is straight up embarrassing. I am still pretty upset. Republicans can bully their way to the presidency (See - G.W. vs. McCaine) Democrats cannot and should not.

The Republicans had a more credible field this year... Governors, Senators, the leading lights of their party. The Democrats had two non-democrats as the most credible opposition to the Clinton Coronation (Linc and Bernie). The DNC has ceded 800+ positions at the federal, state and municipal level since the Third Way Clinton Machine took over from Howard Dean's 50 State Strategy in 2008.

Here, we must cast an angry eye at Obama, who is a fantastic president, but a bad Democrat. He let it happen, he let the Democrats run away from him, and then lose, because he let them run away from his successes and back to the failed Third Way. He nominated intractable enemies to important positions in his Government. Trump sure as shit won't make the same mistake, as much as an imbecile he is.

But, yes, let's blame middle class white men holding on by their fingernails for Trump.

Actually, we should, but not in a way we'd all like.
posted by Slap*Happy at 7:37 PM on November 14, 2016 [5 favorites]

The myth of a cultural and demographic genocide faced by "white" people has been a fixture of European racism since at least Galton. Its persistence is not surprising.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 7:39 PM on November 14, 2016 [13 favorites]

Hey, if he wanted to whip up hate against First Nations people, we're already 100% of the way there. We already ran a whole program of genocide.

Now the trick is just making straight white guys think they're on the receiving end of that to make them go batshit, it'd work. It doesn't take much to sell them

Yep. In my experience so many people, so, so many are pretty good racism wise regarding POC. Bring up anything First Nations and bam *sad trombone*.
posted by Jalliah at 7:41 PM on November 14, 2016 [3 favorites]

Bring up anything First Nations and bam *sad trombone*.

So true. And, as bad as it is in Ontario, I know some Manitobans and that shit is just horrific there. There's racism all around us.
posted by dazed_one at 7:44 PM on November 14, 2016 [4 favorites]

They still didn't have the votes!

Right, and Clinton has taken a significant lead in the popular vote. What they did have was a dedicated state-level machine that suppressed the vote for Clinton in key specific locations (e.g. North fucking Carolina). You don't need to pander to the mythical Totally Not Racist But Sincerely Economically Anxious Middle Aged White Man demographic to win, separate from everyone else who is economically anxious and hanging on by their fingernails. But it's hard as hell to fight the FBI, the Supreme Court via the gutting of the VRA, the Republicans, the Russians/Wikileaks, and the media Emails! machine all at the same damned time.
posted by Existential Dread at 7:45 PM on November 14, 2016 [26 favorites]

Trump voters were overwhelmingly white.
Trump voters tended to make over $50k.
Trump voters tended to be over 40 years old.

About that income level. Any self-reported income from the average Trump voter would likely fall in line with Trump's own reporting of his income. It is the one thing on the form that one can make up at will, and you only need to give yourself a raise by one tick or so. In fact, reporting one's true income as a proud Trump voter would miss the point of bluffing, because they didn't know he was going to win, and would rather shame Clinton's supporters some more than help make their point. It is just another example of lying to pollsters again in a politically incorrect election, as has happened the past four months.
posted by Brian B. at 7:46 PM on November 14, 2016 [2 favorites]

FWIW: Greta Van Susteren is asking people for personal stories about the ACA. I'm only seeing it on my right-wing leaning friends' feeds, which worries me. Might be worth commenting if you have a good story.

"Wahhhhhhhh! Obama stopped an insurance company from swindling me! Thanks Obama!"
posted by Talez at 7:47 PM on November 14, 2016

@JoyAnnReid
"Right now, Harry Reid is the one guy showing the party how to fight -- and be seen fighting -- for the people being brutalized by Trumpists.

The immediate rush to accommodation, including from Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren is odd from a strategic POV, and a moral one.

There are actual hate crimes taking place; churches being defaced, children being taunted, people being hurt.

As the preferred party of this multi-racial constituency, don't Democrats have some obligation to fight for them?

Before the guy is even sworn in, and while his supporters are still tweeting Nazi memes at journalists and attacking churches, both Dems and

formerly "Never Trump" Republicans are racing to make nice with Trump. Why? Shouldn't they first demand the violence and harassment stop?

I get Obama being gracious. He is the holder and upholder of the presidency. He has a duty to the office. These other guys are just folding.

Why is that? Because if Republicans have taught Democrats nothing, it's that constituents want to see their representatives fight hard.

My guess is the "still in the game" Democrat who shows the most fight vs the alt-right revanchism of Trump will gain a following for 2020."
posted by chris24 at 7:48 PM on November 14, 2016 [33 favorites]

So true. And, as bad as it is in Ontario, I know some Manitobans and that shit is just horrific there. There's racism all around us.

It's bad enough that I admit that if I'm ever having a conversation about racism or racists I'll bring up something about First Nations as a bit of test to get an idea of what baseline I'm dealing with.
posted by Jalliah at 7:49 PM on November 14, 2016 [3 favorites]

In case you weren't repulsed and terrified enough, remember that all the potential cabinet picks are from the GOP sewer trap, people who couldn't get traction with establishment candidates, and were selling their books and hanging out with people like Pamela Geller while relegated to the minor leagues of wingnut welfare.

No kidding. A few minutes ago Rachel Maddow showed a clip of Glenn Beck saying that Bannon is strongly linked to white nationalism and "a nightmare".

This from the guy who retconned the "Black Regiment" of priests during the Revolutionary War into the "Black Robed Regiment" during his historical revisionism variety show lest the adoring things he was saying about them be confused with actual groups of black people fighting in the War who were also referred to by the name "Black Regiment".

Mr. Trump has repeatedly said he wants to keep this strategy secret so that the terror network can’t prepare for it.

On The Late Show last Wednesday Robert Smigel/Triumph's joke was "Trump's plan to destroy ISIS is to buy it and run it like one of his casinos."
posted by XMLicious at 7:49 PM on November 14, 2016 [8 favorites]

Thinking some of the Putin love may have a lot to do with the fact that a military conflict with Russia is more realistic than ever before. It's an unconscious "better fuck that chicken!" response to the terrifyingly real fear that global war could be a tweet away.* Deep down the mollycoddlers know how terrifying such an exchange might be. Dubya took Vlad around on the ol' Insta-Ranch to wrassle the tumbleweeds, and nobody was shakin' in their boots back then. Bamz has been more deft and cool, resulting in a buildup of rhetoric, mansweat and feats of strength. Make friends with the baddies that look like us- the rest, blow 'em all to hell.
*Naturally, this is overly simplistic and quasi-self-therapy by way of Yet Another Comment On The Internet, for Chrissakes. Not for fact-sploitation.
posted by moonbird at 7:51 PM on November 14, 2016 [1 favorite]

No kidding. A few minutes ago Rachel Maddow showed a clip of Glenn Beck saying that Bannon is strongly linked to white nationalism and "a nightmare".

Glenn Beck had some serious neurological problems that coincided with his time at Fox News.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 7:53 PM on November 14, 2016

@rmc031 Rachel Cohen
Let's be clear that Teen Vogue has taken a stronger stance against Stephen Bannon than AIPAC
posted by triggerfinger at 7:57 PM on November 14, 2016 [40 favorites]

>It's an unconscious "better fuck that chicken!" response to the terrifyingly real fear that global war could be a tweet away.

I don't know what this phrase/metaphor means.

I mean, it's remarkably vivid and maybe useful, but I don't know what it means. When I google it I get no results for "better fuck that chicken" — it serves me Game of Thrones references about wanting to "eat every fucking chicken," and that old clip of a newscaster inexplicably telling a weatherman to "keep fucking that chicken," but nothing for "better fuck that chicken!"
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 7:58 PM on November 14, 2016 [3 favorites]

...where is this rush to accommodation? From either?

Bernie Sanders is 'prepared to work with' Donald Trump

Elizabeth Warren to Donald Trump: Let's Work Together
posted by chris24 at 7:59 PM on November 14, 2016 [2 favorites]

Bernie Sanders is 'prepared to work with' Donald Trump

Elizabeth Warren to Donald Trump: Let's Work Together

Come into my parlor, said the spider to the fly...
posted by Slap*Happy at 8:00 PM on November 14, 2016 [3 favorites]

like okay right now I'm giggling like a maniac over "better fuck that chicken!"

I think maybe "better fuck that chicken!" is the first thing I've had a non-negative reaction to since the Disaster, maybe since before the Disaster.

There is a small chance that "better fuck that chicken!" is to You Can't Tip a Buick as a piece of corn under the refrigerator is to Allie Brosh.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 8:01 PM on November 14, 2016 [11 favorites]

Come into my parlor, said the spider to the fly...

Ah yes, just part of their ingenious master plan. Never mind how black America, the largest and most dependable Democratic constituency feel about it. They clearly just don't know as much as white people about what's best for them.
posted by chris24 at 8:04 PM on November 14, 2016 [12 favorites]

I wish my piece of corn were less obscene...
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 8:04 PM on November 14, 2016

How do you reach those people? Tough question.

Fear is easier to sell than hope. Look at the NRA. It's easier to sell fear (they're gonna take our guns away) than hope (let's have gun reform in the hope that another school won't get shot up). The Republicans are great are selling fear. Look at the ACA. Fear = death panels. Hope = not getting denied coverage for pre-existing conditions. Democrats are not great at selling hope, or rather, they're not as good at selling hope as the Republicans are at selling fear.

So, what then? I'm done playing nice. I wanted to be able to reach those people living in manufactured fear and give them hope instead. But now were going to have an administration who has doubled down on fear, both manufactured and very, very real. My concerns lie with the latter.

I don't mean this in a threatening way, but we need the Republicans to fear the Democrats. This isn't a time for compromise. This is a time to get that 49% who didn't vote and bring them on board. And the way we've been doing it hasn't been working. The Republicans know that, which is why they don't fear us. But if hope doesn't work, what will? Anger? I'm angry, and at least some portion of the non-voters will be angry when they get screwed. Running a campaign consisting solely of cute animal videos and Harambe memes? I don't know. Just... something.
posted by Ruki at 8:04 PM on November 14, 2016 [7 favorites]

Also, it would be helpful to have the full quotes in regard to supporting Trump.

“To the degree that Mr. Trump is serious about pursuing policies that improve the lives of working families in this country, I and other progressives are prepared to work with him," Sanders said. "To the degree that he pursues racist, sexist, xenophobic and anti-environment policies, we will vigorously oppose him.”

“When President-elect Trump wants to take on these issues, when his goal is to increase the economic security of middle class families, then count me in,” Warren said. “I will push aside our differences, and I will work with him to achieve that goal. I offer to work as hard as I can and to pull in as many people as I can into this effort.”

Saying, "we will work with him on progressive values," is nowhere close to a rush to accommodation.
posted by Ruki at 8:07 PM on November 14, 2016 [7 favorites]

Saying, "we will work with him on progressive values," is nowhere close to a rush to accommodation.

Again, I'm going to listen to black people when they say they have major concerns with this. Bacause I trust that they know more about the needs and fears of black people than white people.
posted by chris24 at 8:10 PM on November 14, 2016 [12 favorites]

Google doc from an assistant professor of communication and media: False, Misleading, Clickbait-y, and Satirical “News” Sources.

Includes tips for analyzing news sources:

- Avoid websites that end in “lo” ex: Newslo (above). These sites specialize in taking a piece of accurate information and then packaging that information with other false or misleading “facts.”
- Watch out for websites that end in “.com.co” as they are often fake versions of real news sources.
- Watch out if known/reputable news sites are not also reporting on the story. Sometimes lack of coverage is the result of corporate media bias and other factors, but there should typically be more than one source reporting on a topic or event.
- Odd domain names generally equal odd and rarely truthful news.
- Lack of author attribution may, but not always, signify that the news story is suspect and requires verification.
- Check the “About Us” tab on websites or look up the website on Snopes or Wikipedia for more information about the source.
- If the story makes you REALLY ANGRY it’s probably a good idea to keep reading about the topic via other sources to make sure the story you read wasn’t purposefully trying to make you angry (with potentially misleading or false information) in order to generate shares and ad revenue.
- It’s always best to read multiple sources of information to get a variety of viewpoints and media frames. Some sources not specifically included in this list (although their practices at times may qualify them for addition), such as The Daily Kos, The Huffington Post, and Fox News, vacillate between providing legitimate, problematic, and/or hyperbolic news coverage, requiring readers and viewers to verify and contextualize information with other sources.
posted by triggerfinger at 8:13 PM on November 14, 2016 [20 favorites]

Glenn Beck had some serious neurological problems that coincided with his time at Fox News.

He teared up as he described almost two years of increasing uncertainty and fear in the face of a mysterious ailment

I'm sure he was actually ill, but I watched him when he first went into television on CNN and he was just as much of a crazy asshole back then, speaking in sycophantic honeyed tones about "clean coal" and pounding his fist on his desk demanding to know how the country was going to fight World War III.

Anyone who goes through a severe illness like that deserves sympathy for such an ordeal but in the absence of evidence to the contrary I would expect he's trying to use it in service of his career for PR purposes the way he did when finding religion and becoming a devout Mormon when he needed to transition from being a radio shock jock to more serious echelons of the broadcast industry.

I'd be interested to hear if his schtick has become less evil since that 2014 article, or since going behind a paywall in general, but I'm not holding my breath.
posted by XMLicious at 8:13 PM on November 14, 2016

It's fucking amazing to me, even - especially? - as a white guy, that posts and articles from black writers, journalists, women expressing their concerns, fears and issues with how the Democratic Party has reacted and started pandering to and normalizing Trump's racism are constantly dismissed here by some as not really understanding the issue and missing the point.
posted by chris24 at 8:15 PM on November 14, 2016 [41 favorites]

better fuck that chicken

This has nothing to do with this post, but
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:17 PM on November 14, 2016 [1 favorite]

better fuck that chicken

Well trod territory on this website.
posted by Quonab at 8:22 PM on November 14, 2016 [2 favorites]

Geez. Considering the circles he runs in, Glenn Beck is lucky he didn't literally end up blue.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:22 PM on November 14, 2016 [2 favorites]

since the Third Way Clinton Machine took over from Howard Dean's 50 State Strategy in 2008.

Did that actually happen? The 50 State Strategy meant wrangling with a bunch of '06 House Blue Dogs and red-state Senators who would show up for the big votes as long as they were given leeway on others because they felt it wouldn't play in their own districts. That wasn't "Clinton Machine" party management, it was conservative Dems who saw teabaggers show up at town halls with AR-15s and got scared of being associated with the leadership.

Anyway, look at Gene Demby's thread on floors, ceilings and overreading.
posted by holgate at 8:25 PM on November 14, 2016 [9 favorites]

Trump is now making the LAPD look like decent human beings.
posted by Talez at 8:32 PM on November 14, 2016 [4 favorites]

Do you want Nazis? Because this is how you get Nazis.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 8:34 PM on November 14, 2016 [1 favorite]

> The Daily Kos's Stephen Wolf: Republicans now dominate state government, with 32 legislatures and 33 governors

Great. Here Comes Another Constitutional Crisis. Time for the Democrats to wake up.

You want a scary number? Here's a scary number.

33.

That's the number of state legislatures over which the Republican Party now has complete control.

You want a scarier number?

34.

That's the number of state legislatures required now to call a new constitutional convention under Article V of the Constitution.

posted by homunculus at 8:35 PM on November 14, 2016 [24 favorites]

Trump is now making the LAPD look like decent human beings.

Glad I'm not the only one having thoughts like this. It makes me want to just run around skipping and singing something about 'la la la, it's just a topsy turvy world now la la la'
posted by Jalliah at 8:36 PM on November 14, 2016 [1 favorite]

That's the number of state legislatures required now to call a new constitutional convention under Article V of the Constitution.

They won't do it, though. They don't want to be put in the position of saying no to the crazies, so they simply won't call it and hope people can't count.
posted by corb at 8:38 PM on November 14, 2016 [1 favorite]

Come into my parlor, said the spider to the fly...

"You knew damn well I was a snake before you took me in..."
posted by krinklyfig at 8:42 PM on November 14, 2016 [6 favorites]

That's the number of state legislatures required now to call a new constitutional convention under Article V of the Constitution.

Yes but amendments can only be proposed at a constitutional convention. They still need a 3/4 vote by the states.
posted by chris24 at 8:46 PM on November 14, 2016 [2 favorites]

Right, they can call a convention at 34 but they can't pass them without 38. Gotta admit 33 isn't far enough below 38 to make me super comfortable though.
posted by Justinian at 8:49 PM on November 14, 2016 [7 favorites]

Google does not now fetch for me the greatest of all time metafilter chicken fuck image. I believe they are categorizing it as terrorist.
posted by bukvich at 8:57 PM on November 14, 2016 [1 favorite]

In which a woman is subject to Trump-related street harassment. I bring this up because this one isn't a huge deal with 2,000 retweets and police saying they're taking it seriously and concerned articles on ThinkProgress. Just a normal low-key Monday morning incident of a woman being threatened in the name of the President-elect on the street.

There's never a big investigation or a formal report or a bias related incident committee for this stuff, nor was there one when such things happened before the election. Just a woman telling her story and getting a handful of retweets. And nobody even knows how many people it's happening to. This is normal now. And it's not ok.
posted by zachlipton at 8:57 PM on November 14, 2016 [27 favorites]

Right, they can call a convention at 34 but they can't pass them without 38. Gotta admit 33 isn't far enough below 38 to make me super comfortable though.

I can't see them getting a trifecta in WA, NV, CO, NM, MN, IL, NY, NJ, MD, MA, VT.

I could see LA, MT and WV (2019 and 2020) on the cards once any remaining Democrat momentum comes to a stop and they kick out remaining D governors.

ME would be a close call. Ds still hold the lower house and 2020 is a presidential year for redistricting precluding a probable redistricting in favour of Rs. VA and PA? PA has a real chance of going trifecta. VA would be on a knife edge. Both of them would need a governor to stand in the way of any ratification.

38 is tantalisingly close in 2020 if Trump does well and the Rs can take LA, MT, WV, VA, and PA governorships.
posted by Talez at 9:02 PM on November 14, 2016

It was the demographic the We're With Her campaign abandoned, and they abandoned her right back, right in the strategic states.

White guys abandoned the Democratic Party long ago. In 2012, 62% of white guys voted for Romney. So in 2016, they didn't abandon the Democratic Party, they just never left the Republican Party. So yeah, they do have a piece of the blame for not bothering to think about the consequences of their vote.

Meanwhile, the GOP didn't learn anything from their 2012 loss. They doubled down and chose a candidate that totally abandoned the minority, women, and LGBTQ vote. And they won.

And I don't even know what is meant by "abandonment" of white guys. Should Clinton have dropped gun control? Hardly anybody talked about that in the general election.
posted by FJT at 9:02 PM on November 14, 2016 [12 favorites]

The 50 State Strategy meant wrangling with a bunch of '06 House Blue Dogs and red-state Senators who would show up for the big votes as long as they were given leeway on others because they felt it wouldn't play in their own districts.

The thing is, in those districts, your other option is wrangling with a Republican. Give me a Blue Dog any day!
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 9:14 PM on November 14, 2016 [2 favorites]

Democrats have one final (long) shot to flip a Senate seat in the Louisiana runoff election. His website has a "digital phonebank" checkbox on the volunteer form.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 9:21 PM on November 14, 2016 [11 favorites]

The thing I remember saying back in the day about the 50 state strategy is that it yielded seats, but that even if it didn't yield seats it would be worth doing. Elections — may we keep having them! may they someday become less deranged! — are not just methods of selecting elected officials, but are also occasions to have public debates, and by not fielding candidates in every district, the Democratic Party robs the residents of uncontested districts of the chance to publicly think through/talk about their choices and values (and maybe start to change their minds a little).

But. It also wins seats. The thing with running in a bunch of low-probability races is that sometimes low probability chances win. Ignoring low-probability seats is, perhaps, a form of premature optimization.

Tangent: As I understand Canadian politics, fielding a full slate of candidates is seen as the sine qua non for being recognized by the public as a real party; like, the Bloc Quebecois, of course, only fields candidates in Quebec, but every actually national party fields candidates in every riding in every province. Even back in the days when they had like ten MPs, the NDP would field candidates in every riding, even in deepest-conservative Alberta. Even the Greens field candidates everywhere, not because they can ever hope to win more than one or maybe two seats, but because failing to put up candidates everywhere would badly damage their credibility.

I think (correct me if I'm wrong) that's the standard in all Westminster-system countries, at least, and that the US is the oddball for having so many uncontested elections.

and now I've found that by thinking very hard about electoral systems and about the time period when I cared very deeply indeed about Howard Dean, I can forget for up to five whole minutes who the president-elect is.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:34 PM on November 14, 2016 [17 favorites]

Please, everyone who has a Republican congressman, call them about Bannon.

@desmoinesdem: Friend called offices of #Iowa Sens @ChuckGrassley & @joniernst to ask when they would be issuing statements on Bannon appointment. 1/ Staffer for @ChuckGrassley told my friend they've gotten a lot of calls about Bannon, asked if she knew where the push to call started. 2/
posted by Golden Eternity at 9:35 PM on November 14, 2016 [13 favorites]

Another note about Canada- it's only been a year since we had an election in which one party (the one in power at the time) was deliberately appealing to people with anti-Muslim and anti-immigrant feeling with a "Barbaric cultural practice" among other things.
posted by beau jackson at 9:41 PM on November 14, 2016 [3 favorites]

Please explain how white guys specifically were abandoned. You're gonna say, economic policy messaging. But that stuff is relevant to all working-class people, white and not. People of color got (in theory) something extra - the continued recognition of their humanity. But that's not abandoning white people. It is, perhaps, declining to center us.

What Trump offered is something the Democrats literally can't offer, probably not ever: the wages of whiteness. And a hearty "fuck you". And the opportunity to metaphorically flip off Hillary Clinton. What the fuck kind of counteroffer should the Dems have made?
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 9:42 PM on November 14, 2016 [34 favorites]

Bernie Sanders' prime directive for the rest of his career should be to act and speak in ways that push the Democratic party as far in the progressive direction as possible on as many policy axes as possible. I applauded his initial statement after the election result was final, noting a willingness to work with the new President, and I quote, "[t]o the degree that Mr. Trump is serious about pursuing policies that improve the lives of working families in this country." Some in the last thread said that this qualified olive branch was giving too much, but in my mind, when the other team wins, they are likely to control the agenda, and it's never a bad sign to show someone you're willing to talk to them, especially when you're limiting it with preconditions about what policy outcomes you'll accept.

And then, just a day after Donald Trump just about broke the Internet by appointing Stormfront Jr. as a senior advisor, Bernie decides to tweet out this "white working class" shit. Rule #1 of politics is that if your opponent is stepping on a rake you stand there like a statue and don't make any sudden moves that will take the media lens off of them. But no, for some reason, Bernie had to proclaim that he alone was the champion of the White Working Class (tm), and those pesky Democrats (you know, the ones who invited him to run for their nomination for President) are humiliating to people like him (well, people like him 60 years ago, at least). So now, instead of critically reporting on Trump's many negative stories from just his first week of transition (just a sampling of them: "Can I phone this job in from my Manhattan penthouse?"... "Wait, Barack, I don't get to keep all of your White House staff?"... "Yeah, sure, I guess I'll give an unapologetic neo-Nazi access to the West Wing, that couldn't possibly go wrong"), our false-equivalence-hunting media outlets can point to "Democrats in disarray!" yet again. I even heard NPR this morning finally changing their tune and referring to Breitbart's history of posting racist, anti-Semitic, and misogynstic content. But now here's Bernie with another shiny object they can report on. Thanks a lot, pal.

Before his Presidential run, Sanders' ability to do affect progressive change was little more than his single vote in the Senate. After running for President, his words and deeds carry a mandate from a large chunk of the American progressive movement. That is a massive amount of political capital in an environment where the power centers for 2017 and beyond have not yet been determined. He can and should use this political capital to be a progressive gadfly, but instead, he's chosen to make it all about him, with emotionally-charged "humiliation" rhetoric. I don't need Sanders to be a member of the party, but I need him to be in a position to influence it. The more he engages in this sort of "look at me" political theater, and the more moves away from the inclusive "working families" of his original statement towards this "white working class" phrasing, the less effective he will be as an agent of leftward change for the Democratic party, which is still the only home for leftists and liberals in our two-party system.

Yes, this is just one tweet, but it's a tweet that he had plenty of time to think about. He's not a back-bencher anymore. He should be organizing with Democrats through back channels right now, not legitimizing Donald Trump's micro-targeting of who the "real Americans" are among the working class.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:56 PM on November 14, 2016 [39 favorites]

Mod note: Couple comments deleted. Maybe try that again without the invitation to a hyper-personal fight.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 10:05 PM on November 14, 2016 [2 favorites]

Not a lot of POC were admitted to those stable blue collar jobs in the first place. Most unions didn't even let them in.

This is racist bullshit. This is a racist Republican lie. As the Bureau of Labor Statistics tabulates, Black workers have an even higher membership rate in unions today than whites, 14% to 11%. Yes, there was a mixed history of racial animosity for unions going back more than a century to the turn of the 1900s. But beginning in the 1930s, the CIO was at the forefront of racial integration, enrolling over 85,000 black steelworkers, long before the rest of society or even the military was integrated. In the 1940s, 16,000 Black workers joined a UAW strike against Ford in Detroit. The AFL was one of the holdouts against integration in the early 1900s, but by 1968, over 2.5 million African Americans belonged to the AFL-CIO. Union membership by minorities has been their biggest boost into the mainstream middle class.

What you are saying is the same thing the racist factory managers fed to sow discord in the ranks of union members, playing minorities against whites. What you are saying is the same thing Trump tried to do when he told minorities "What have you got to lose?" It's an age old racist Republican tactic of divide and conquer.

Thank you but we don't need Republicans to lecture Democrats about unions, a Republican party that starting with Reagan every year has done everything it could to undermine unions -- firing union government workers, legislating bans on collective bargaining, passing anti-union "right to work" laws, and gutting the National Labor Relations Board with management friendly appointees.
posted by JackFlash at 10:28 PM on November 14, 2016 [36 favorites]

Elizabeth Warren to Donald Trump: Let's Work Together

Al Green to Donald Trump: Let's Stay Together
posted by kirkaracha at 10:28 PM on November 14, 2016 [3 favorites]

Elizabeth Warren to Donald Trump: Let's Work Together

Al Green to Donald Trump: Let's Stay Together

Elvis to everybody -- We Can't Go On Together With Suspicious Minds
posted by philip-random at 10:34 PM on November 14, 2016 [3 favorites]

Elizabeth Warren to Donald Trump: Let's Work Together

Al Green to Donald Trump: Let's Stay Together

Elvis to everybody -- We Can't Go On Together With Suspicious Minds

Progressives to themselves: I Wanna Be Sedated/The KKK Took My Baby Away
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 10:45 PM on November 14, 2016 [8 favorites]

Please explain how white guys specifically were abandoned. You're gonna say, economic policy messaging. But that stuff is relevant to all working-class people, white and not. People of color got (in theory) something extra - the continued recognition of their humanity. But that's not abandoning white people. It is, perhaps, declining to center us.

Well, the problem is these guys' ancestral white guys were the beneficiaries of a lot of coincidences coming together, but nobody told them that:
  * The Great Depression & WWII meant that in the post-War era there was huge pent-up demand worldwide.
  * Most of the other industrialized nations had been heavily bombed and couldn't meet that demand.
  * Demand in those countries was stretched out because they needed to recover economically -- Britain had rationing into the 50s!
  * American factories were already running at max efficiency from the war effort and they just needed to switch to making consumer goods.
  * The labor movement from earlier in the century meant that those jobs paid well.
  * The draft continued at a low level, then picked up for Korea and Vietnam, so some young men were out of the regular workforce altogether, decreasing labor supply.

But for a man in that bubble, he just walked into a job at whatever factory was in town, and it paid well, and his wife didn't have to work, etc. etc. etc. And it felt like that was just The Way America Was Meant To Be.

This isn't intended as an excuse, but if no one ever taught them this in school... how would they know? They weren't abandoned, but as David Axelrod put it on Real Time the other day, back then, a white man had to try really hard if he wanted to fail. Life was set to easy mode. But they didn't see anyone else's lives, and they had no basis for comparison.

I don't know how you convince them though. "Granddad got lucky and won the metaphorical lottery, assuming he was white and didn't die in a midcentury American war. Sorry."

And it's just going to get worse. Truck driving is a hugely common blue collar job across the nation, and it's the big automation target for self-driving vehicles. Sure, you still need a person in the vehicle to unload the deliveries, but he doesn't need a CDL anymore, so he's making minimum wage, and working odd hours, on call for whenever he gets paged that the autodriving truck is coming to pick him up.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 10:49 PM on November 14, 2016 [50 favorites]

You Can't Tip a Buick:

Tangent: As I understand Canadian politics, fielding a full slate of candidates is seen as the sine qua non for being recognized by the public as a real party; like, the Bloc Quebecois, of course, only fields candidates in Quebec, but every actually national party fields candidates in every riding in every province. Even back in the days when they had like ten MPs, the NDP would field candidates in every riding, even in deepest-conservative Alberta. Even the Greens field candidates everywhere, not because they can ever hope to win more than one or maybe two seats, but because failing to put up candidates everywhere would badly damage their credibility.

Generally correct. In the Toronto and Windsor ridings I've lived that are either solidly Liberal or NDP, the Conservative candidates (who had a snowball's chance in hell, even while running for a major, if not the governing party) were either parachute candidates or young party stalwarts who just wanted to cement some bona fides with the party. Hell, even the Marxist-Leninist Party (they're actual Stalinists - trust me, I've met them, and North Korea is their last holdout as a model state but before that, it was Albania, because Enver Hoxha refused to follow Khrushchev) ran 70 candidates in Canada's 308 federal ridings.

Long way of saying: "Yep. It would be weird if a party didn't even try." And part of that is what led to the Liberal landslide last year. Sure, they lined up some candidates they knew would be stellar, but they also ran a lot of people who might be "meh" or weird backbenchers. The deal is you never know quite how it's going to roll. But it's one-tenth the population spread over a larger geographic area, plus parliamentary system, so it's a different setup and not entirely comparable.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 10:53 PM on November 14, 2016 [1 favorite]

the problem is these guys' ancestral white guys were the beneficiaries of a lot of coincidences coming together

Taxes were higher, too.
posted by kirkaracha at 11:03 PM on November 14, 2016 [4 favorites]

Taxes were higher, too.

Good point! Among other things, it funded things like the interstate highway program (economic stimulus FTW!), and created a downward pressure on executive pay.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 11:05 PM on November 14, 2016 [1 favorite]

I don't know much about Guliani, being in Australia, except something-something-9/11 and his Wikipedia page. Can anyone fill me in on his failings, other than being a Trumpeteer?
posted by Joe in Australia at 11:06 PM on November 14, 2016

Piggybacking on Blue Jello Elf - something I've been mulling over for pretty much this whole week is how very, very much more expensive it is - for a LOT of reasons - to live the "middle class life" of the fifties-early sixties than it used to be. And some of those things aren't necessarily caused by progressive changes - but sometimes, they're affected by it and that's what people fixate on, and Democrats in particular, especially right now, have difficulty in messaging around this.

Take, for example, something we used to think about a lot for elections - gas. As many people have talked about on a lot of different threads, the life of the suburbs, with a work commute, and casual driving weekends, was made largely possible by cheap gas and cheap cars. Now, gas prices are higher for a lot of reasons - but one of those reasons is taxes. Taxes on gas have gone up, in particular, as we have decided that it's okay to tax gasoline for a lot of the environmental costs we now know the use of that gasoline creates. In some states (like mine), the tax if you include the federal is about 1/4 of the gas cost. That's roughly, for my family's gas consumption, about 150$ a month that I'm paying in gas taxes alone. That's a pinch I feel. And that feels like a progressive pinch - because when you talk about gas taxes with progressives, you usually hear some variant of, "Why are you driving a car instead of taking mass transit?" I'm not saying that's what people are trying to say, but that's how it sounds.

Trump talked about oil and gas in terms of how he could get the best, cheapest energy for individual consumers. He effectively said, "These prices are eating you alive, I'm going to make them lower."

2007 Clinton knew that. She proposed solutions for gas prices. She was still focused on the economy - Dems were back then. But 2016 Clinton didn't want to really put a lot of focus on that. Her focus is clean energy. Important as hell for climate change! But it costs a lot more. And she and other Dems have never really learned how to message around that - how to say straight up, "Yep, it costs you more, but it's important, and here's how it's going to benefit you personally." She's not very good at talking to self interest.

And so in this and a thousand other economic issues, Clinton got eaten alive. It's shitty, because people went for a no-shit fascist talking a good economic game. But he did, in fact, talk a pretty good economic game for these people, and one Clinton wasn't talking.
posted by corb at 11:10 PM on November 14, 2016 [17 favorites]

NB: When I say a "good economic game", I mean, "Hearing and responding to their actual concerns", not, "Having a plan with a chance of success."
posted by corb at 11:11 PM on November 14, 2016 [1 favorite]

I don't know much about Guliani, being in Australia, except something-something-9/11 and his Wikipedia page. Can anyone fill me in on his failings, other than being a Trumpeteer?

I'm a New Yorker, and I hate him. I don't think I've ever met a new yorker who didn't hate him. Let's start with he's a divorced "Catholic", and it gets more hypocritical from there.
posted by mikelieman at 11:11 PM on November 14, 2016 [8 favorites]

I was just shot down a few threads ago about convening a constitutional convention to get rid of the electoral college (five days before the actual election, I might add), and now we're panicking about the Republicans holding one? Can we tone it down on the random catastrophizing? At least until the week before the inauguration?
posted by Apocryphon at 11:14 PM on November 14, 2016 [2 favorites]

That's roughly, for my family's gas consumption, about 150$ a month that I'm paying in gas taxes alone. That's a pinch I feel. And that feels like a progressive pinch - because when you talk about gas taxes with progressives, you usually hear some variant of, "Why are you driving a car instead of taking mass transit?" I'm not saying that's what people are trying to say, but that's how it sounds.

And taking mass transit is great, but it transforms a tax in money to a sort of a tax in time. "You can save that money, and the Earth, but you get less time with your family and more time dealing with bus randos!"
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 11:15 PM on November 14, 2016 [2 favorites]

Can anyone fill me in on his failings, other than being a Trumpeteer?

Businiess Insider: Criticism for Giuliani's Broken Windows Theory

Huffington Post: Rudy Giuliani’s Nasty Little Divorce and Why it’s Relevant

The Cato Institute: Rudy’s Racist Rants: An NYPD History Lesson

The New Yorker: The Appalling Last Act Of Rudy Giuliani

For our out-of-town readers, that's the financial trade paper, the liberal rabblerousers, the right-libertarians, and the upper-crust liberals, all who don't like 'em.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 11:23 PM on November 14, 2016 [37 favorites]

And it's just going to get worse. Truck driving is a hugely common blue collar job across the nation, and it's the big automation target for self-driving vehicles. Sure, you still need a person in the vehicle to unload the deliveries, but he doesn't need a CDL anymore, so he's making minimum wage, and working odd hours, on call for whenever he gets paged that the autodriving truck is coming to pick him up.

Roll On, 18 Wheeler.

But yeah. Did union-breaking seem like a great idea? There's this idea that unions, combined with free trade, drove industries to Mexico and elsewhere from the U.S. The fact is that a lot of those industries stayed. They just changed the way way they did things. With the help of legislators. They no longer needed Pinkerton or union breakers to crack heads. They just made it legal to do things differently. Move to a right-to-work state. Bust a union. Meat processing, for example, didn't leave the U.S. for the most part.

Like, read Methland. It's not so much a book about drugs as it is about union-breaking and how food processing operations moved to exploiting migrant and part-time non-union labour and how that destroyed the economy of a town.

The enlightening part of Eric Schlosser's Fast Food Nation is not so much about the food itself. It's how it's produced. He talks about how in certain meat processing plants, days where they're packing for EU export are a little bit better, because there's a higher level of inspection. They're not forced to cut as fast in gutting to avoid fecal contamination of the meat, the bone cutting is a little more meticulous and slower to avoid spinal and brain tissue from getting into the meat (BSE, for example, is a concern). So they don't have to blow out their hands and bodies quite as much on those days.

Like Upton Sinclair's The Jungle people get a little more concerned about "OMG, I'm eating that?" as opposed to "OMG people are working in those conditions?"

Past is prelude, blah blah.

Don't get me wrong - I don't think Hillary Clinton is any champion of organized labour. But Donald Trump is the guy who will send more people out to break the heads of the remaining members.

He may get bored in a few months, and retire to Trump Tower, under Secret Service protection, and occasionally sally forth to deliver an incendiary rally or two, while Mike Pence, Rudy Guiliani, Steve Bannon and whoever the fuck else move on the rest of the population.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 11:25 PM on November 14, 2016 [16 favorites]

Well, the problem is these guys' ancestral white guys were the beneficiaries

Once again, times are tough for everyone. These economic problems apply to everyone. The failure to make that economic argument applies to everyone. White guys are not being especially abandoned here. They are literally doing just as poorly as everyone else. But broadly speaking, the only demographic that picked up what Trump was selling was white people.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 11:34 PM on November 14, 2016 [8 favorites]

> Hell, even the Marxist-Leninist Party (they're actual Stalinists - trust me, I've met them, and North Korea is their last holdout as a model state but before that, it was Albania, because Enver Hoxha refused to follow Khrushchev) ran 70 candidates in Canada's 308 federal ridings.

Thought 1: Oh my god antirevisionists exist! They're not just jokes in weird facebook memes!

Thought 2: Well, you know, say what you will about Enver Hoxha, the man could build a bunker.

> Long way of saying: "Yep. It would be weird if a party didn't even try." And part of that is what led to the Liberal landslide last year. Sure, they lined up some candidates they knew would be stellar, but they also ran a lot of people who might be "meh" or weird backbenchers. The deal is you never know quite how it's going to roll. But it's one-tenth the population spread over a larger geographic area, plus parliamentary system, so it's a different setup and not entirely comparable.

It's not entirely comparable, but it's not entirely not comparable either. One thing that makes it, well, more comparable is that the Republicans have developed strong party discipline, and so a vote for the Republican party is now somewhat more like a vote for the party platform, or for the Speaker of the House/Majority Leader, than it is like voting for an individual. Under these conditions it makes sense to run in every district.

One of the reasons why we're in the darkest timeline is that in a legislative body, once one party develops Westminster-style strong discipline, the others absolutely have to develop strong discipline as well, or else they'll get rolled by the disciplined party (see: how the Irish Parliamentary Party gained outsize influence through being the first party in Westminster to develop strong discipline, how the Bolsheviks were able to take control of the Soviets and then end elections). But the Democrats, out of I don't know what — nostalgia for the way things used to be? Need to maintain big money donors? — have largely failed to develop party discipline to match Republican party discipline.

Also yeah this is all complicated by how we've also got a separately elected executive, but I still think there are similar underlying dynamics (now more than there used to be) between elections to parliament and elections to the U.S. house/senate. The baroque quality of the U.S. system just masks those dynamics somewhat.

This nightmare is generated by the combination of so many bad things all piled up on each other. Like, it's bad when only one party establishes strong discipline over a long period, and it's worse when that party's platform is fundamentally brutal, and it's the scariest thing that has ever happened in my lifetime when there's only one disciplined party and that party is fundamentally brutal and that brutal party has then been hijacked by fascist entryists oh my god.

dang though now I'm going to be up all night worrying about whether our current President-Elect is better or worse than Enver Hoxha.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 11:45 PM on November 14, 2016 [18 favorites]

yeah I mean the only reasons that Giuliani is even on the national stage are:

1. things the NYPD did while he was mayor, and
2. spending like a decade after 9/11 whipping up anti-Muslim sentiment

and neither of those things are things to be proud of / things that qualify him for a promotion to the federal level.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 11:57 PM on November 14, 2016 [4 favorites]

Mod note: A couple deleted. If people are going to bring up horrifically triggering stuff, maybe do it with a link and a content warning. sheesh.
posted by taz (staff) at 12:00 AM on November 15, 2016 [3 favorites]

(This is from way up thread, because of time zones.)

[insert clever name here]: Right. So there is a swastika that popped up near me over the weekend.

Could be time to draw a windmill.
posted by Too-Ticky at 12:04 AM on November 15, 2016 [7 favorites]

alternately, vaporwave trumps hate.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 12:34 AM on November 15, 2016 [7 favorites]

[satire]
Trump Confirms That He Just Googled Obamacare
[satire]
posted by Joe in Australia at 12:36 AM on November 15, 2016

I posted in the last thread about how I cried and how scared I was. I feel better -- the anxiety and pit in my stomach or gone, and I can enjoy things again.

But I am unnerved by how normalized this has all become. After the election, when they were talking about President Elect Trump on the TV and showing Trump Tower, it felt surreal, like it was a movie or TV show. When I saw his rumored cabinet appointments, I felt dread, like it was the worst collection of people possible. Yet now, it's all slowly feel like just "how things are." I just watched Trump's 60 Minutes interview, and it bothered me how used to Trump I am and how it felt "normal," like this is my new reality.

I understand the desire to move on and let go of the anxiety, sadness and anger. We have to do that. I also understand the rationalizing that happens when you don't want to live in fear. And I understand the human nature to try to accept people have different beliefs and view the world differently just so you can deal with other humans.

But I also know that Trump has stirred up misogynist, racist, xenophobic and hateful sentiments. I also know he has no understanding of public policy. And that he is putting some of the worst, most despicable people in the White House. And that he is a narcissist who loves attention. Who can't control his emotions and will fly off the handle, whether it's a tweet or an interview. And who will appoint Supreme Court justices who want to overturn Roe v. Wade, allow voter suppression, and whatever else.

And so I am torn. I'm upset at everyone who voted for Trump, which includes members of my own extended family. And I don't know how to be ok with them. And I don't know how to resolve my feelings of things being "normal" vs. understanding that this goes beyond mere political ideological differences.

Anyway, just had to vent and rant a little. I feel "better" now, no crying, no pit in my stomach, no shaking. But still... unsettled and unsure of where to go from here.
posted by AppleTurnover at 12:39 AM on November 15, 2016 [20 favorites]

AppleTurnover: Once, my cat got his back leg stuck in his collar. I imagine he struggled for a while but by the time I got home, he was merrily hobbling around the apartment. "Leg stuck in my collar, I guess this is my life now, how about some dinner dad?" He even objected to being rescued at first.

That's how I feel right now "La La La Trump is president this is my life now how about some food?"

So I did what John Oliver suggested and stuck a post it note with the phrase "this is not normal" to my front door.

Coincidentally, as I write this, that note is somehow stuck to my cat. For real. So it goes.
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:00 AM on November 15, 2016 [127 favorites]

Fear is easier to sell than hope. Look at the NRA. It's easier to sell fear (they're gonna take our guns away) than hope (let's have gun reform in the hope that another school won't get shot up). The Republicans are great are selling fear. Look at the ACA. Fear = death panels. Hope = not getting denied coverage for pre-existing conditions. Democrats are not great at selling hope, or rather, they're not as good at selling hope as the Republicans are at selling fear.

Fear is often based on the idea of change from the way things are or the way you believe them to be to something other and alien, so it's base is in what you have or are now. Hope, on the other hand, is projecting change to being something better, which is great when you don't feel like you have anything now, but not so great if you're worried more about losing something than needing to gain. Hope also carries uncertainty with it, since it isn't saying this will happen, but we want it to, so in a way, it's just doubt with a happy face drawn on it. That might be enough after a few years of Trump, but hope isn't intrinsically always a great pitch to a lot of people.


Regarding those pesky 50k plus Trump guys, some of them are surely people who aren't interested in progressive economics because they believe they would be hurt by them, so the claim that selling them harder on that approach would work isn't a sure thing. There's a real problem in trying to create and sell national policy ideas that will fit both large metro areas and smaller towns and rural areas. A 15 dollar an hour national minimum wage, for example, doesn't mean the same thing in New York or Seattle as it would in Rapid City or Casper. What might make sense for one pair, is hard to fit to the other pair since the situation of a huge metro area is different than a smaller city for both employers and employees. That isn't to say that economics should be ignored or that there shouldn't be an increase in the national minimum wage or that Trump voters did act purely on policy reasons or that bigotry isn't a factor in all of this, but that the disputes go beyond what policy can easily address due to the gulf between how people live in different areas of the country.


Regarding Bernie, yeah, his standoffishness from the Democratic party is a problem in itself, not, perhaps, for getting him elected, but as yet another example of the "heroic individual" garbage that pollutes our narratives about how we might move forward as a country, or even as a party in the case of the Dems. Waiting for strong men of our own is not a great ideal to shoot for, though, yes, it could prove a "winnable" strategy in the short term since that is how it is. We abandoned belief in overarching authority decades ago, so now people just group around their own chosen leaders and fight any information that would oppose that choice. Tribes of belief. Unfortunately the Republicans are generally better at doing that since there is generally less division within the ranks from their supporters believing they know better than the person they support and/or each other. Pride in self as part of winning team vs pride in self for rightness.

It isn't a bubble problem, in fact the bubble narrative being so readily bandied about as if true without much examination points to how important narratives are in these matters. All the "analysis" of why Clinton lost, as if there is one reason or story that could prove "the" reason, rather than it being a collection of different things will coalesce into some narratives for next time that may or may not have much to do with what actually happened, but will define future understanding due to how prevalent they become, possibly even overriding values that could be used to define the meaning of a party or belief system because the narrative offers a better story on winning. Even in the absence of a strong political narrative, people will turn to fiction to supply one, using pop culture analogies for support or proof of some belief or another. It's all a fairly toxic mix of elements that make me despair for this country coming together around a set of beliefs any time soon, even if Trump is defeated next time around and doesn't permanently damage the country or world before then.
posted by gusottertrout at 1:22 AM on November 15, 2016 [4 favorites]

Speaking of narratives, there's a hell of a takedown of the "it's all the fault of the WWC: let's accommodate them/kill them with fire [pick one according to political preference]" narrative in this morning's Guardian from Aditya Chakrabortty:

At least now you know who to blame. Since Brexit and especially after Donald Trump, the quack analysts have been out in force, holding aloft their quack explanations. It is apparently all the fault of the white working classes. They got left behind and cast aside in the past two decades of globalisation – now they’re making the rest of us pay.

[...]

Never mind that such quackery, while pretending to be rooted in economics, merely turns the “white working class” into just another branch of identity politics. Never mind that it muddies the debate (the Le Pen dynasty and the millionaire Nigel Farage somehow turn out to be the real victims in all this) and trivialises the very people to whom the quack is pretending to genuflect. Poor sods: unlike the rest of us, they just couldn’t keep up.

However seductive this is as explanation, as analysis it’s off economically and it’s off politically because it misses the point.

[...]

Put bluntly, if you think that what has happened to the advanced countries’ working classes – how over four decades they have sunk from semi-prosperity into pauperism – was a one-off event driven by the magical, unanswerable forces of globalisation, then you’ve missed the point. This is a process that’s swallowing up the middle classes too. Indeed, it’s happening now. And the political implications will, I think, make Trump come to seem as benevolent as a greasepaint baddie at a Christmas panto.

Aditya Chakrabortty, Rust-belt romantics don’t get it: the middle class is being wiped out too, The Guardian (15 November 2016).
posted by Sonny Jim at 1:48 AM on November 15, 2016 [7 favorites]

If you're taking Brexit as one of the leading edges of the tsunami, it's worth noting today's headline news from the UK - Leaked Brexit memo: no single plan and Whitehall is struggling to cope..

Basically - nobody expected it, there is no political strategy to cope with it, months after it happened no cohesive way of even thinking about it has evolved, and the government is completely divided and in denial.

Welcome to my world, America.
posted by Devonian at 1:57 AM on November 15, 2016 [29 favorites]

Will Wheaton: The entire Democratic Party Leadership must change.
posted by Joe in Australia at 1:57 AM on November 15, 2016 [3 favorites]

Basically - nobody expected it, there is no political strategy to cope with it, months after it happened no cohesive way of even thinking about it has evolved, and the government is completely divided and in denial.

Yeah, that's what's so unsettling about this brave new world we find ourselves in. In the past, the Bad Guys won and set about implementing their masterplan. That was scary enough, but now to have them be like "We won? Fuck. Now what do we do?" is strangely even more terrifying.
posted by billiebee at 2:19 AM on November 15, 2016 [15 favorites]

there is no political strategy to cope with it, months after it happened no cohesive way of even thinking about it has evolved, and the government is completely divided and in denial.

No, that's the good bit. 'Political strategy to cope' in practice comes out a lot like 'how can we preserve the status quo and ensure the corporations don't hurt too much' (see: Nissan's sweetheart deal). The bad bit is the ascendancy of guys like Steve Bannon, who give off every indication that they probably do know how to cope with what's happened, thanks very much.
posted by Coda Tronca at 2:35 AM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

Bella Caledonia on fourteen tests for fascism - which, needless to say, get ticked all the way down.

Disagreement is treason, people, and anything that thrives on disagreement as a way to get to the truth - like science or the media - is inherently treasonous and must be suppressed.
posted by Devonian at 3:20 AM on November 15, 2016 [5 favorites]

These threads move so fast it's hard to keep up, but I just wanted to push back a little on the essentially conservative idea that things are now economically just reverting to a historical norm, and the middle class expansion of the middle-century in the west was just an abnormality. Part of the idea of progressive politics has to be that historical norms do not determine our politics or policy or even the material conditions or relations of our lives, and that's actually reflected in that very mid-century expansion: context matters, and the post-war boom was determined by a lot of things, but the most important were government committed to middle class growth and Keynesian development. People have forgotten, but the post-war economic order (at least in the West) was organized explicitly to address the economic conditions that led over the course of several decades to two world wars and fascism. The history of the postwar West has been flushed down the memory of hole of neoliberalism, so to speak.

tl;dr = The death of the middle class and the comfortable working class is not a matter of historical inevitability, but of policy.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 3:52 AM on November 15, 2016 [28 favorites]

Bella Caledonia on fourteen tests for fascism

Umberto Eco's template of Ur-Fascism, that is.
posted by progosk at 4:14 AM on November 15, 2016 [3 favorites]

The death of the middle class and the comfortable working class is not a matter of historical inevitability, but of policy.

Totally agree with this. Actually, the Chakrabortty piece from the Graun I linked above is actually largely about this, although the headline and pull-quotes frame it a bit differently.
posted by Sonny Jim at 4:21 AM on November 15, 2016

3. Irrationalism also depends on the cult of action for action’s sake. Action being beautiful in itself, it must be taken before, or without, any previous reflection. Thinking is a form of emasculation.

Yeah, Irrational and unthinking. Experience bears this out.

I was literally called a "Jewish Nazi" this morning on g-ddamned FB.
posted by mikelieman at 4:24 AM on November 15, 2016 [8 favorites]

Can we tone it down on the random catastrophizing?
posted by Apocryphon at 11:14 PM on November 14

Disastisterical?

I was literally called a "Jewish Nazi" this morning on g-ddamned FB.

My I recommend that Sir, "kick that Facebook shit to the curb"?
posted by petebest at 5:00 AM on November 15, 2016 [6 favorites]

I just woke up from the most horrible nightmare, you guys.

The juxtaposition of this (Obama insisting Trump will support NATO, because apparently that's something that requires reassurance), this (the Kremlin reporting, simultaneously, that Putin & Trump spoke about "improving" US/Russia relations) and this (Guiliani reporting that Trump's first priority is defeating ISIS via his "secret plan") all combined in my head:

I dreamt that in their phone call, Putin sweet-talked Trump into joining forces, ostensibly toward defeating ISIS; that that was what Trump's "secret plan" was, while Putin's was to use that alliance to take over not only the Middle East but to invade Europe as well, before turning on the US; and that this state of affairs had progressed enough that NATO had already fallen apart. With WW3 looming, my partner and I were arguing about where we should move to be safest....

"God, it's like those Ask things," I said, confusing the question-queue fable with actual questions in my dream. And then I woke up.

I'm still shaking from it. I haven't been this rattled about the potential for a nuclear holocaust since the Cold War, and even then I felt that mutually-assured destruction would keep us safe. But Putin is a megalomaniacal madman, and Trump is a megalomaniacal rube, and the combination.... *shudder*

I'd really like someone to talk me down. Please, people. Tell me this is just a bad dream.
posted by Westringia F. at 5:04 AM on November 15, 2016 [2 favorites]

I am in utter shock that all efforts seem to be going towards figuring out a game plan after he IS president. Why aren't there more concerted big league efforts to delegitimize him taking the office in the first place?
posted by ian1977 at 5:12 AM on November 15, 2016 [6 favorites]

NYT, by the Editorial Board: ‘Turn On the Hate’: Steve Bannon at the White House
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:13 AM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

Why aren't there more concerted big league efforts to delegitimize him taking the office in the first place?

We already tried that and lost.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:16 AM on November 15, 2016 [4 favorites]

times are tough for everyone

For definitions of everyone that don't include most Americans, or that little slice of inhumanity funneling everything into its own pockets, I guess.

I guess all suffering is relative, but take it from someone who grew up on food stamps, without running water or a telephone. The sad boner blue collar don't have any idea what tough is.
posted by aspersioncast at 5:18 AM on November 15, 2016 [2 favorites]

@EricLiptonNYT It is already happening: Trump Family Sees President of United States--as a Marketing Opportunity.

Twitter link takes you to an ad for Ivanka Trump fine jewelry. Ad copy says "Ivanka Trump wearing her favorite bangle from the Metropolis Collection on "60 minutes." Ad picture is Ivanka seated and wearing the bangle while being interviewed.

Very much in the same vein as when she was selling the dress she wore at the RNC. If you recall the dress sold out so this stuff does work.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:19 AM on November 15, 2016 [7 favorites]

He isn't president yet.
posted by ian1977 at 5:19 AM on November 15, 2016 [2 favorites]

Forgot to add that the bangle is $10,800-- so not aiming at the middle class.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:20 AM on November 15, 2016 [2 favorites]

Maybe I "somehow" missed it in the 4000+ previousliers, but did anyone see a plausible explanation for the Outrageously Erroneous polling aggregations?

Are we pretending that 1%-27% is what happened, and that a year-long lead in the polls - all of them - was meaningless?

One article (okay, only article) I've seen says:

-failed to account for "enthisiasm"; early voting wasn't matched by election day turnout
-under-sampled non-college whites which was "ok because changing demographics"
-Comey
-just one of those things

Which, unless it is Comey to a very large degree, and I'm on board for that, why would I ever look at another poll again? The horse racing was unbearable AND I lost on a sure bet.

I'm not asking whether those things could have transpired vis-á-vis the polls, just that "Why didn't any of the polls notice"? Because I inherently distrust them and had allowed myself some comfort in what was essentially crappy work across an entire industry.
posted by petebest at 5:22 AM on November 15, 2016 [4 favorites]

Which, unless it is Comey to a very large degree, and I'm on board for that, why would I ever look at another poll again?

One take away from this is, I think, that unless you're running the campaign, there's no information in a poll that matters to you. No matter what the polls say, vote, volunteer, come out for events in your area, put up yard signs and wear buttons. Whether they're selling a horse race narrative or predicting certain victory for one side, who cares? They're not information that matters to most of us.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 5:26 AM on November 15, 2016 [8 favorites]

I'd really like someone to talk me down. Please, people. Tell me this is just a bad dream.
It is just a bad dream. Putin is meglomaniacal but he is not a madman. He is absolutely pragmatic. He will use Trump where he can, but he knows damn well there are other countries that would unite against him if he tried to actually take over the world. Putin is not Stalin. (I would also add Trump is not Hitler, because he ain't nohow as organized.)
posted by dannyboybell at 5:28 AM on November 15, 2016 [3 favorites]

I'd really like someone to talk me down. Please, people. Tell me this is just a bad dream.

Life does feel very much like a nightmare from which we can't awaken right now. I keep pinching myself but to no avail. Protesting is great but if the Bush years proved anything, foreign policy is something we just have to sit back and watch happen. So here's hoping that the better angels of our nature keep the world from spinning any further out of control.
posted by dis_integration at 5:29 AM on November 15, 2016

Here's the contact info - address, phone number and email - for every U.S. Senator and an easy search form for contact info for every US Representative. In case you want to call, write, visit to express your disgust with Trump naming a neo-Nazi as a senior advisor.
posted by chris24 at 5:29 AM on November 15, 2016 [13 favorites]

What is this bullshit my students are telling me about some sort of write-in election on December 21 to get HRC elected. They said it's blowing up over FB.

I felt like paraphrasing John Oliver's bit *yes, if you want an election rerun you carefully log in to Facebook and ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR FUCKING MINDS* but it's not my students fault.
posted by angrycat at 5:30 AM on November 15, 2016 [6 favorites]

What is this bullshit my students are telling me about some sort of write-in election on December 21 to get HRC elected. They said it's blowing up over FB.

chuckle. The Electoral College meets December 19th. So they'll be writing in her name and sending ballots to some kind of Santa Claus of Politics, I guess.
posted by dis_integration at 5:33 AM on November 15, 2016 [7 favorites]

What is this bullshit my students are telling me about some sort of write-in election on December 21 to get HRC elected. They said it's blowing up over FB.

A teaching opportunity about how government actually works, which is not through online petitions.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:36 AM on November 15, 2016 [8 favorites]

Apart from the change.org petition, is there any other push to contact the Electoral College?
posted by pxe2000 at 5:40 AM on November 15, 2016

Your students (and everyone else pushing weird electoral college shenanigans) have hit the bargaining stage of grief.

This is real, it's happening and there is no magic way around it. The only way is through.
posted by tivalasvegas at 5:43 AM on November 15, 2016 [27 favorites]

There's a letter writing movement. I don't think it will do much good, but I don't think it's just bargaining. Trump is far, far more dangerous than anyone else we've seen in awhile, and the faithless elector scenario is a legitimate, constitutionally valid method of preventing this.

If it happened, it would be a disaster and Clinton would almost certainly be impeached (or, at least, large parts of Congress would try). But the stakes here are incrediblely high, and it's really the last acceptable method for preventing this mess.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 5:53 AM on November 15, 2016 [11 favorites]

The way I see it, it will be a disaster regardless. The best shot I see is some sort of damning proof of foreign influence on trump and then faithless electors have their justification to do their thing.
posted by ian1977 at 5:57 AM on November 15, 2016 [2 favorites]

Former senior State Department official under Condi Rice.

@EliotACohen
After exchange w Trump transition team, changed my recommendation: stay away. They're angry, arrogant, screaming "you LOST!" Will be ugly.
posted by chris24 at 6:00 AM on November 15, 2016 [15 favorites]

Is there any chance of Obama still trying to seat Garland? Can't it be argued before the 4-4 Supreme Court that the Senate's lack of action is a form of consent?
posted by localhuman at 6:00 AM on November 15, 2016 [3 favorites]

Is there any chance of Obama still trying to seat Garland? Can't it be argued before the 4-4 Supreme Court that the Senate's lack of action is a form of consent?

No.

This happened. They won. We can't will it away or get around it with cheap tricks.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:04 AM on November 15, 2016 [5 favorites]

Honestly, I get the impulse but I think the consequences of Trump not taking office or being immediately impeached are pretty dire, even leaving aside the prospect of a Mike Pence presidency. You'd have a substantial portion of the population, many of whom are armed, who have an serious and at least half-way legitimate grievance with the government of the country. Not selecting Donald Trump president doesn't automatically deport him or anything, so he'd still be out there to rally and encourage his supporters. This is the kind of stuff actual civil wars are made of.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 6:09 AM on November 15, 2016 [8 favorites]

This happened. They won. We can't will it away or get around it with cheap tricks.

I understand the instinct, but I despise that we are locked into going high while they continue to usurp power through cheap tricks. And given the recent news about the NC GOP trying to pack the courts there at the last minute, they aren't going to stop anytime soon. So we have to find a way to fight tooth and nail. It won't always be pretty, but this is literally about survival now.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 6:11 AM on November 15, 2016 [16 favorites]

I really did not ever imagine that I'd see the day when a WaPo columnist would quote Gramsci. Especially not in the lifestyles section, I guess.

On another note, do you think Ryan will really be able to voucherize Medicare in January? If he does, he'll leave it alone for existing users as a bribe, right? I mean, my parents really need it. I am pretty much in a "shoot myself when I get too sick to work" headspace right now, but my parents need the care they're getting.
posted by Frowner at 6:13 AM on November 15, 2016 [2 favorites]

The problem is asymmetrical. They are rewarded for cheap tricks and norm breaking while Democrats bear the burden of "getting over it" and following the rules at all times. The public just rewarded them for 6 years of total obstruction, constant filibusters, and stealing a Supreme Court seat. They won't reward Democrats in kind if they filibuster everything Trump does. Nor will Trump scandals be covered anything like the made up Clinton rules coverage.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:15 AM on November 15, 2016 [14 favorites]

Wow, now on twitter, Trump is 'splaining how he would have won the popular vote if he wanted to. The man is incapable of accepting that he isn't the best at everything.
posted by drezdn at 6:19 AM on November 15, 2016 [10 favorites]

Wow, now on twitter, Trump is 'splaining how he would have won the popular vote if he wanted to. The man is incapable of accepting that he isn't the best at everything.

I was "amused" to see him claim he'd have campaigned more in Florida. He campaigned the shit out of Florida. Does he even know where he is at any given moment?
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 6:22 AM on November 15, 2016 [4 favorites]

One thing I've noticed as a result of this election but haven't seen discussed much is that this event has radicalized an unknown number of people on the left. So many people I know who used to actively work towards compromise and moderate goals are now saying "fuck it and fuck the Republican Party, I want every last one of them gone." Everyone is crying out for something tangible they can do beyond throwing money at the problem.

I don't know if that will last, but if the Democrats can properly channel that fury, I think we all might have a fighting chance.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 6:22 AM on November 15, 2016 [32 favorites]

I think we need to be 100% and quit sugarcoating this election.

This was about the WWC saying that presented with the choice between tax cuts and actually making sure that their fellow Americans are not targeted by bigots chose tax cuts.

This was about the WWC saying that presented with a choice between higher insurance premiums and making sure that all Americans have access to health care were fine sacrificing other Americans.

This was about the WWC saying we want jobs but we also don't want to compete with immigrants for them.

Establishment Republicans are never going to go with a policy of restricting free trade. The free market is central to their very identity.

So exactly how are Republicans going to engage in the economic protectionism demanded by their base while also maintaining a firm belief in free markets? I'm not sure that it's ever going to be compatible.
posted by vuron at 6:22 AM on November 15, 2016 [9 favorites]

And given the recent news about the NC GOP trying to pack the courts there at the last minute

I have some decent, I think, hope that this remains a rumor and not a real thing. It seems like it's being brought up by the John Locke Foundation, a conservative "think" tank that functions as the id of the North Carolina GOP, one of the worst state Republican parties in the country.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 6:26 AM on November 15, 2016 [2 favorites]

Silly, Republicans don't believe in free markets anymore. We are seeing that Republicans never actually believed in anything except power (something a lot of people suspected for a long time--see also the manipulation of evangelical whites into giving a shit about abortion as a means to an end of political dominance). Whatever gets them the most power and the most lucrative lobbying career is now the platform of the party.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:28 AM on November 15, 2016 [10 favorites]

President-Elect Trump: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver (HBO)
posted by kuatto at 6:28 AM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

So, a fellow named Vaclav Havel once took on a Russian installed authoritarian regime.

And won.

Here's his speech "A Word about Words."

Nothing in it that's directly pertinent. But it's a start. Especially given that we are in a marathon, not a sprint.
posted by ocschwar at 6:32 AM on November 15, 2016 [11 favorites]

This was about the WWC saying...

Trump also won college educated whites by 4 points.
posted by chris24 at 6:33 AM on November 15, 2016 [6 favorites]

Ahen. College credentialled.
posted by ocschwar at 6:36 AM on November 15, 2016 [10 favorites]

Nicolas Sarkozy proposed a carbon tax on American-made goods if Trump pulls out of climate accord.

On Sunday, Sarkozy told the French television channel TF1 that he would “demand that Europe put in place a carbon tax … of 1 to 3 percent for all products coming from the United States, if the United States doesn’t apply environmental rules that we are imposing on our companies.”
posted by Jalliah at 6:36 AM on November 15, 2016 [23 favorites]

College Educated Whites are a work in progress. They've traditionally been central to Republicans but more recently they've begun skewing liberal especially as women start getting an increasing percentage of college degrees. College Educated Whites definitely need to shoulder some of the blame and pretty much everything I said above also represents the CEWs. However there has been an increasing fetishization of WWC and their economic anxieties.

So yeah a fuckton of Americans went "Oh yeah that $200-300 tax break is worth voting for a bigot"
posted by vuron at 6:40 AM on November 15, 2016 [3 favorites]

WH official confirms that they're still waiting for Pence to sign legal paperwork (memorandum of understanding) to get transition going
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:43 AM on November 15, 2016 [4 favorites]

Why on earth would Pence wait to sign that?
posted by ian1977 at 6:46 AM on November 15, 2016 [2 favorites]

@HouseGOP ready to "Make America Great Again." Rep. Cathy McMorris giving hats to members this AM.

McMorris' 9 year old son, Cole, has Down Syndrome.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:46 AM on November 15, 2016 [2 favorites]

Dilettante-in-Chief. That's how I'm referring to him from now on.
posted by Etrigan at 6:47 AM on November 15, 2016 [5 favorites]

So yeah a fuckton of Americans went "Oh yeah that $200-300 tax break is worth voting for a bigot"

Yeah. It makes me feel like even more shit to know that I'm going to benefit personally because this piece of shit is in power. Like if you line up the people who are probably going to die through lack of healthcare and said to people "hey, do you want these people to live or would you rather have $300?". You'd probably lose all faith you have left in humanity but at least you'd know who to shoot on the spot.

Dilettante-in-Chief. That's how I'm referring to him from now on.

I prefer ratfuck-in-chief or President Camacho.
posted by Talez at 6:51 AM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

Except that President Camacho wanted what was best for his country, not just for his stockholders.
posted by pxe2000 at 6:53 AM on November 15, 2016 [6 favorites]

McMorris' 9 year old son, Cole, has Down Syndrome.

She should ask Trump about his family's racehorse theory of genetics.
posted by Talez at 6:54 AM on November 15, 2016 [7 favorites]

Trump also won college educated whites by 4 points.

Self-reported information from Trump voters have a credibility gap, which is why the surprise outcome. The average Trump voter is basically explaining their insincere wild card vote before the outcome was known, so if there ever was a need or chance to bluff about being smart and wealthy, here it is.
posted by Brian B. at 6:56 AM on November 15, 2016

In my experience, people don't actually think that anything bad is going to happen to everyone. America is going to be great again! Repealing Obamacare will be fiiiiine, no one is going to die, no one would let that happen. I have a couple people with serious chronic and ultimately terminal illnesses on my FB feed and they have been very very candid and public with what an ACA repeal would mean for them (a much swifter death), including the actual numbers and the various ACA-enabled programs that take care of their five-figure monthly medical bills and over and over and over again people tell them that they're sorry to hear they're ill, but they'll totally be fine, stop panicking, no one is going to die.

People's heads are in. the. sand. The Obama movement made a lot of people feel really super uncomfy about the fact that the President and hence the press kept telling them all these sad stories that gave them a really sad, bummed out feeling inside (and maybe for the more introspective and self-aware made them feel a tiny bit guilty and ashamed) and they don't want to hear about that any more. Only happy news, from now on, guys! America has now been made officially Great (tm). There's no longer anything to see here. Move along, citizen.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:59 AM on November 15, 2016 [50 favorites]

Why on earth would Pence wait to sign that?

Because they're a bunch of bumbling incompetents high on victory?
posted by dis_integration at 7:02 AM on November 15, 2016 [7 favorites]

I mean, Pence also confirmed that he won't be leaving the governorship of Indiana until January. I have no idea if that's normal or not.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:02 AM on November 15, 2016

Why on earth would Pence wait to sign that?

Just waiting on that Top Secret security clearance for Barron, Secret Service still has to do some background checks on his Overwatch clan.
posted by PenDevil at 7:04 AM on November 15, 2016 [4 favorites]

Self-reported information from Trump voters have a credibility gap

where is the cite for this?
posted by zutalors! at 7:04 AM on November 15, 2016 [2 favorites]

I mean, Pence also confirmed that he won't be leaving the governorship of Indiana until January. I have no idea if that's normal or not.

Gotta finish flipping all those Democrats the bird and fucking the state before he leaves.
posted by Talez at 7:05 AM on November 15, 2016 [3 favorites]

Only happy news, from now on, guys!

...the Americans – or many of them – remain a warm and optimistic people. They hope for the best. That may be their downfall. They are addicted to films, and prefer national mythologies with happy endings. The one I would propose for your further study at this time is called The Wizard of Oz.

"Good luck, Dorothy. This may not turn out so well as in the movie." (Margaret Atwood)

posted by Mister Bijou at 7:10 AM on November 15, 2016 [6 favorites]

I mean, Pence also confirmed that he won't be leaving the governorship of Indiana until January. I have no idea if that's normal or not.

George W. Bush resigned the governorship of Texas on December 21, 2000.
Bill Clinton resigned the governorship of Arkansas on December 12, 1992.
Spiro Agnew resigned the governorship of Maryland on January 7, 1969.

Those are the only sitting governors to be elected to the presidency or vice-presidency since Inauguration Day was moved from March to January.
posted by Etrigan at 7:14 AM on November 15, 2016 [3 favorites]

"Good luck, Dorothy. This may not turn out so well as in the movie." (Margaret Atwood)

It's more like Wicked. The blonde is a daft prick, the wizard is a dickhead, and the bookish freak is the true protagonist despite everyone thinking she's cold hearted and evil.
posted by Talez at 7:14 AM on November 15, 2016 [6 favorites]

@realDonaldTrump
If the election were based on total popular vote I would have campaigned in N.Y. Florida and California and won even bigger and more easily

@jonfavs Retweeted Donald J. Trump
Now we know: reminding Trump that he's a popular vote loser really annoys him. So let's keep doing it.
posted by chris24 at 7:16 AM on November 15, 2016 [56 favorites]

For anyone curious about the EC, this is happening.
posted by pxe2000 at 7:20 AM on November 15, 2016 [2 favorites]

The one thing that was constant in the election was whenever the story and full attention was on Trump, people hated him. Only when the focus was on Clinton and he had his phone taken away did his numbers stabilize. Well, no more Clinton and the entire focus on him 24/7 for 4 years. He's going to be despised.
posted by chris24 at 7:21 AM on November 15, 2016 [6 favorites]

For anyone curious about the EC, this is happening.

Do they understand that if they throw it to the House, we probably still end up with Trump?
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 7:22 AM on November 15, 2016 [2 favorites]

He's going to be despised.

Maybe that was the point - to be a professional lightning rod for people to focus their attention on while more subtle politicians push through their own agendas. Maybe we elected Zaphod Beeblebrox.

How insane is it that that's what I'm hoping for at this point?
posted by Mooski at 7:25 AM on November 15, 2016 [8 favorites]

A bit more detail on the document foot dragging in this NYT report about the stalled transition.

The document us basically an NDA for both sides of the transition, which, of course Team Trump won't sign it. (The report says Pence wanted to change some language and will sign later today.)

Also noted: Mike Rogers, the Trump Transition team's top Natl Security adviser, the person who has been laying plans and cultivating contacts in the outgoing staff for months, left the team today.

There is no pivot. It's bunglery and bluster all the way down.
posted by notyou at 7:25 AM on November 15, 2016 [6 favorites]

Do they understand that if they throw it to the House, we probably still end up with Trump?

Some do or I have read they do. The arguments for still doing despite this, I've read are along the lines of 'red alert, situation not normal at all have to use every tool we can and at least go down fighting'
posted by Jalliah at 7:25 AM on November 15, 2016 [15 favorites]

where is the cite for this?

I wrote it, but it's also common sense. If one feels even slightly defensive about reporting how they suddenly voted, they can justify their decision by inflating their self-worth (as less likely to be desperate or racist or sexist). Also, Trump admittedly doesn't like "losers" so they are representing the boss.
posted by Brian B. at 7:28 AM on November 15, 2016

Also noted: Mike Rogers, the Trump Transition team's top Natl Security adviser, the person who has been laying plans and cultivating contacts in the outgoing staff for months, left the team today.

Wait, is that Admiral Mike Rogers, NSA Director?
posted by indubitable at 7:28 AM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

With all the stuff about clickbait articles and 'post-truth' journalism, it's worth remembering that it was the NYT et al that published the WMD stuff about Iraq. And Colin Powell at the UN. They all knew it was lies.
posted by Coda Tronca at 7:29 AM on November 15, 2016 [17 favorites]

I wrote it, but it's also common sense.

Sorry, but there's ton of things that sounds like common sense that aren't. Like white suburban women won't vote for a misogynist racist fascist. We saw how sensical that was.
posted by chris24 at 7:30 AM on November 15, 2016 [12 favorites]

where is the cite for this?

I wrote it, but it's also common sense.

Not really. You're basically saying that people voting for Trump are just the poor people misreporting themselves, and that wealthier people are not voting for Trump? The stats are wrong because all those people wanted to show Trump they were wealthy like him?
posted by zutalors! at 7:30 AM on November 15, 2016 [6 favorites]

For all the rumination on the WWC, we still need to remember that the overall Republican vote - in terms of number and demographics - held close to 2008 and 2012. It was the Democrat vote that changed significantly - it fell precipitously, especially for non-white voters. The DNC, etc. needs to examine why it was not able to earn those votes.
posted by Sticherbeast at 7:32 AM on November 15, 2016 [3 favorites]

Wait, is that Admiral Mike Rogers, DIRNSA?

No. Ex-Michigan Senator dude.
posted by Jalliah at 7:33 AM on November 15, 2016 [2 favorites]

Not really. You're basically saying that people voting for Trump are just the poor people misreporting themselves,

No, I'm saying they inflate their self-worth at certain opportunities. A white person feeling down on the ladder is likely to vote for Trump, but they don't want to for that reason. Poor people who know they are exploited are far more self-aware of their politics.
posted by Brian B. at 7:33 AM on November 15, 2016

A white person feeling down on the ladder is likely to vote for Trump, but they don't want to for that reason.

WTF? Their entire supposed rationale/excuse for it not being racism is that it's economic and they're hurting. And you think they're afraid to admit they're hurting? They say it all the time. It's their go to excuse. Heard of "Economic Anxiety?"
posted by chris24 at 7:36 AM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

Just found myself typing "demoncracy" in the document I'm currently writing.

Have to check out of this thread. It's not doing my psyche any good.
posted by Sonny Jim at 7:36 AM on November 15, 2016 [11 favorites]

Do they understand that if they throw it to the House, we probably still end up with Trump?

I suspect they understand that if they don't throw it to the House, we definitely still end up with Trump.
posted by Etrigan at 7:40 AM on November 15, 2016 [11 favorites]

And you think they're afraid to admit they're hurting?

They were hurting less by the self-reported numbers, which is the point. Or, consider that any pride often exceeds reality, as another angle. But I prefer the insincere "everyone-sucks" voting angle, which resulted in almost disguising oneself to the pollsters beforehand, and afterwards.
posted by Brian B. at 7:41 AM on November 15, 2016

It was the Democrat vote that changed significantly - it fell precipitously, especially for non-white voters. The DNC, etc. needs to examine why it was not able to earn those votes.

Rollback of the Voting Rights Act is a guess
posted by zutalors! at 7:42 AM on November 15, 2016 [29 favorites]

Some do or I have read they do. The arguments for still doing despite this, I've read are along the lines of 'red alert, situation not normal at all have to use every tool we can and at least go down fighting'

I'd say every level at which his presidency is rejected is ultimately a weakening of his mandate. The more illegitimate his presidency is perceived as, the harder it's going to be for him to accomplish his agenda (worked on Obama, and there was no real cause for illegitimacy there). If he wins neither the popular nor the electoral vote, he doesn't really look like someone who occupies the office by any sort of public process. And that matters.
posted by jackbishop at 7:43 AM on November 15, 2016 [19 favorites]

It was the Democrat vote that changed significantly - it fell precipitously, especially for non-white voters. The DNC, etc. needs to examine why it was not able to earn those votes.

THIS. IS. BULLSHIT.

This meme started based on vote numbers from the day after the election being compared to all votes counted in 2008 and 2012. In reality, 6 million more votes will be cast this year than 2012 and 4 million more than 2008. The percentage of the population that voted was higher this year than 2012.

And this was despite all the various voter suppression, Voter ID, loss the of the VRA, etc.

QUIT. REPEATING. BULLSHIT.
posted by chris24 at 7:45 AM on November 15, 2016 [80 favorites]

The "DNC did wrong stuff" or "Clinton'a campaign messed up" is just way over-reading. See that Gene Denby (I think) tweet set linked upthread. The election was decided by 0.1% of those who voted in three states. There are any number of things that could have caused Trump to win including: numerous disparate voter suppression efforts, nothing but noise about Clinton email scandals, Comey letter depressing turnout, insufficient attention on what people are voting for in Trump, etc and of course "campaign mistakes". You can't pick just one and it's telling to me that the one folks always want to get on is the one that lets us yell at the DNC leadership. Maybe instead of saying "DNC leadership has to change", people should be advocating for what election activities they think an incoming leadership should champion and pick based on that? I realize it's subtle, but one sounds like victim blaming and like the speaker is washing their hands of making it better. The other is saying what one values in leadership.

Here I'll go first: I want the DNC to focus on running candidates in as many state races as possible and start a campaign to decrease voter suppression (including felon getting voting rights back automatically.)
posted by R343L at 7:49 AM on November 15, 2016 [34 favorites]

Teacher suspended over comments: "Don't make me call Donald Trump to get you sent back to Africa"
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:51 AM on November 15, 2016 [3 favorites]

Mod note: Let's keep it cool in here please. Self-care, take breaks from the thread as needed, etc. I get that everyone's feeling stressed/angry/etc but we need folks to keep that under control in the threads, not go after each other, etc.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 7:52 AM on November 15, 2016 [8 favorites]

Teacher suspended over comments: "Don't make me call Donald Trump to get you sent back to Africa"

SUSPENDED? Fire this asshole and take away his license. He has no place in a school or anywhere near children.
posted by Talez at 7:55 AM on November 15, 2016 [13 favorites]

Bernie Sanders: Now More Than Ever, It's Our Revolution
posted by WalkingAround at 7:57 AM on November 15, 2016

Once more with feeling: The election of Donald Trump rests squarely at the feet of the people who voted for him. Focus, people.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:00 AM on November 15, 2016 [34 favorites]

No. Ex-Michigan Senator dude.

I wish that meant he was like a dudebro surfer guy with a polite but party-hardy surf crowd staff. You would call his office, and they would say, "Hola compadre, this is the office of Mister Senator Rogers, it's great to be your neighbor. Please hang ten."
posted by compartment at 8:00 AM on November 15, 2016 [6 favorites]

Once more with feeling: The election of Donald Trump rests squarely at the feet of the people who voted for him. Focus, people.

I a) don't think this and b) don't think it's worth fighting about for the next four years.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:01 AM on November 15, 2016

So I was listening to the most recent 538 podcast, and it had some really interesting analysis of where the Democratic vote fell off, and where it increased. The problem is that while Clinton's popular vote did increase a good deal, and will continue to increase, most of that vote increase is from New York, California, and Washington, areas that were always expected to go Democratic by huge margins. The Democrat vote fell off significantly in places like the county containing Detroit, which as 538 notes, is a majority minority county, and where she lost 60,000 votes from Obama's 2012 numbers. She lost the state by 12,000.
posted by corb at 8:01 AM on November 15, 2016 [10 favorites]

@HouseGOP ready to "Make America Great Again." Rep. Cathy McMorris giving hats to members this AM.

It's "Cathy McMorris Rodgers," actually. (I'm not advocating women taking their husbands' names, but that's the name she uses.) People might remember McMorris from her disconcertingly robotic response to Obama's 2014 SOTU address.
posted by aught at 8:04 AM on November 15, 2016

I've been mulling over for pretty much this whole week is how very, very much more expensive it is - for a LOT of reasons - to live the "middle class life" of the fifties-early sixties than it used to be. And some of those things aren't necessarily caused by progressive changes - but sometimes, they're affected by it and that's what people fixate on, and Democrats in particular, especially right now, have difficulty in messaging around this. ... Take, for example, something we used to think about a lot for elections - gas. ... Now, gas prices are higher for a lot of reasons - but one of those reasons is taxes. Taxes on gas have gone up, in particular, as we have decided that it's okay to tax gasoline for a lot of the environmental costs we now know the use of that gasoline creates. ... But 2016 Clinton didn't want to really put a lot of focus on that. ... And so in this and a thousand other economic issues, Clinton got eaten alive.... But he [Trump] did, in fact, talk a pretty good economic game for these people, and one Clinton wasn't talking. NB: When I say a "good economic game", I mean, "Hearing and responding to their actual concerns"

Total bullshit. But it does illustrate the problem Democrats have addressing Republicans because they so fervently believe their Republican bullshit lies.

This is a classic Republican bullshit story. Based on a lie. Then blaming it on some sort of nefarious progressive agenda. And finally the complaint that Democrats simply won't speak to their bullshit concerns.

Look, gasoline prices today, at the pump, including taxes, are below the historical average for the last century. In fact the very lowest gasoline price in history was as recently as 1998. You are paying less per gallon today than the wonderful 1950s mentioned in the bullshit complaint above. Much, much less than the 1970s. And today's cars get twice the miles per gallon.

And the same lies about gasoline taxes. In real, inflation adjusted dollars, gasoline taxes are about as low as they have been in decades.

So this is what Democrats are faced with, a Republican base that will swallow any lie a Republican candidate tells them and stubbornly insisting that Democrats simply won't speak to them in the lying terms they demand.

As a start, we can always call out bullshit.
posted by JackFlash at 8:04 AM on November 15, 2016 [50 favorites]

simply calling things "bullshit" may be less efficacious than some of you seem to believe
posted by thelonius at 8:08 AM on November 15, 2016 [9 favorites]

Can we not have a tone argument?
posted by Etrigan at 8:09 AM on November 15, 2016 [22 favorites]

Good thing he did more than "simply" call it bullshit, then. He explained why, and linked to sources!
posted by Roommate at 8:09 AM on November 15, 2016 [39 favorites]

And the same lies about gasoline taxes. In real, inflation adjusted dollars, gasoline taxes are about as low as they have been in decades.

State gas taxes have gone up, but the federal gas tax has been the (dollar amount, not percentage) since 1993. If they adjusted it for inflation, it would almost double.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 8:10 AM on November 15, 2016

Buzzfeed news: Ben Carson reportedly turned down an offer to serve as HHS secretary, and won't join the Trump administration.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:12 AM on November 15, 2016 [11 favorites]

I've been mulling over for pretty much this whole week is how very, very much more expensive it is - for a LOT of reasons - to live the "middle class life" of the fifties-early sixties than it used to be.

These ideas always ignore actual living standards. That 50s dream means a small 2-bedroom house or apartment, one very-low-quality car, no cable, no cell, no internet, rarely eating out, health care being cheaper because lots of expensive treatments just don't exist, etc.

Living an actual 1950s lifestyle on one salary would still be hard in the most expensive housing-market corridors, where, yeah, a lot of people live. But outside those belts it's still very much achievable on one middle-class salary... it's just people don't want to live a life that spartan.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:14 AM on November 15, 2016 [32 favorites]

I've been wondering about this. Upthread or possibly in the previous thread, someone talked about campaigns arranging shifts of callers throughout the day, because if you don't, everyone will just call at lunch. I want to start urging people to call their congresspeople - maybe about DAPL? - but is this one of those things that's only worth doing if it's organized?

I've started a mailing list to encourage each other to contact our reps daily and to share scripts for calling elected officials. We've got scripts re: Bannon and re: Elijah Cumming's request that Chaffetz investigate Trump's financial conflicts of interest. If anyone wants to join just PM me.
posted by galaxy rise at 8:15 AM on November 15, 2016 [7 favorites]

Americans outside the top five percent or so are feeling the pinch, but it's not about taxes: It's about housing, child care, health care, and education. Elizabeth Warren (a progressive Democrat) was talking about this back in 2003. Things have not changed since then.

Warren: Today’s families are in financial trouble, because they’re spending so much more on big fixed expenses — mortgage, health insurance, car, preschool, after-school care and college.

What’s happened is that the cost of being middle-class has shot out of the reach of ordinary families over the past generation.

Today’s two-income family has 75 percent more income than the one-income family had a generation ago, but by the time they make four basic payments and their taxes they have less money to spend than their one-income parents.

Yes, the Republicans are telling the struggling middle and working classes to blame the meanie Democrats and their extortionate taxes, and the racist right is telling them to blame those awful brown people and ebil Muslims who are Tekking Their Jerbs. And the Trump voters ate that up with a spoon.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 8:20 AM on November 15, 2016 [8 favorites]

Matt Haig ‏@matthaig1
Look at these two young earnest revolutionaries plotting the downfall of the global elite from their humble golden elevator.

"They thought we were going to bring the jobs back!" [fake]
posted by Talez at 8:20 AM on November 15, 2016 [8 favorites]

On topic, I promise: I'm going toe-to-toe with Richard Florida at an event in Toronto next Monday, and there's a study I know I saw linked here that's relevant to the talk I'm working on. I haven't been able to find it by searching MetaFilter, and my usually decent Google-fu is unavailing as well, so I'm hoping one of you can point me at it at some point before the weekend.

The study was about the threshold at which white people start to feel like a minority — apparently POC only need to comprise something like 20% of a group before white folks perceive them as "dominating"? (I think the study established something similar, as well, for men vis à vis the percentage of women in a group, though I'm not entirely certain I'm not just making that part up.)

Does this strike any sparks for anyone? My own take on this election is that the result was mostly driven by white people's desire to exact revenge on anyone they saw challenging their supremacy, and a very similar desire among men to exact revenge on women. (This is bolstered for me by the other finding I've seen linked here, about depictions of unproblematically diverse communities causing white people to organize and act in defense of their own privilege.) At any rate, if someone knows what I'm talking about, I'd appreciate it tremendously if you could either drop a link in this thread, or MeMail me, cheers.
posted by adamgreenfield at 8:28 AM on November 15, 2016 [9 favorites]

Well, now that my curiosity is piqued, more on the Mike Rogers ouster:

According to sources cited in a Weekly Standard report, Rogers’ ouster was a result of concerns within Trump’s transition team regarding the House Intelligence Committee’s 2014 investigation into the 2012 attacks in Benghazi. Rogers’ report found that the Obama administration responded appropriately to the attacks and their aftermath and did not mislead the public. A number of Congressional Republicans turned their ire on both Rogers and the investigation results as a result.

Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) took a particularly strong tack, calling the report “crap.”

Rogers pushed back, saying that critics only "wanted a report to come out to go after the State Department or the White House."

tl;dr: not Benghazi enough
posted by indubitable at 8:30 AM on November 15, 2016 [19 favorites]

That 50s dream means a small 2-bedroom house or apartment

I live in a community built in the early post-WWII era. My house was built in 1950 for the urban middle class (my neighborhood used to be predominantly Jewish until a bunch of white flight happened). These homes are small by modern standards. Like, I cannot purchase furniture that fits in them in most stores. There are a few basic standard home models and I just moved from one of the standard 2 bedrooms to a 3 bedroom. We've gone from 800 sq feet to 1200, and I kind of feel like I'm living in a mansion now.

Anyway, everyone comments on the street parking situation in my neighborhood. It's a mess of narrow streets with people parking on the street on both sides making two way traffic on most of them impossible (and getting plowed in the winter? fuhgeddaboudit.). But every house has an integral garage. Why is the street full of cars? Well, because most people have more than one car and these homes were built with single-car garages. (My favorite is the house where the people have a Hummer that they park in their driveway but it literally will not fit in their garage.) Also, because these homes are now considered so small, many home-owners have converted their garages into extra rooms (our last house had this feature). Nearly every house on my old block had an extension built as well (ours was one of the only ones that hadn't). The lifestyle these homes were built for just isn't in vogue any more. I don't fault people for wanting more space--I surely did when we were all crammed into 800 sq ft--but this is actually what post-war prosperity looked like. For actual factual.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:33 AM on November 15, 2016 [55 favorites]

adamgreenfield, maybe this?

How White People React to Losing Their Majority Status in America

"In other words, when the majority — here the still-existing racial majority of "white" Americans — perceives, even if not statistically factual, that they have become the minority, their psychological response is fear and loathing. Fear at the prospect of having to actually consider one's race as not inhabiting the dominant position; loathing for having to realize that they live in a multiracial world, and that they have effectively become "othered."
posted by chris24 at 8:35 AM on November 15, 2016 [4 favorites]

That's the second study I'm referring to, chris24. But cheers anyway!
posted by adamgreenfield at 8:37 AM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

adamgreenfield there are links to a few studies (or reports on studies which will hopefully breadcrumb you back to the sources) in this article.

Also this old AskMe.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:39 AM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

My experiences since the election:

Immediate Aftermath
Crying for days. Sobbing on election night at a bar, weeping in the uber (i know, sorry) on the way home, waking up crying on Wednesday. Then I stopped. I feel mostly numb but will cry at the drop of a hat and have to be careful since I can't actually feel my feelings right now so they trip me up.
My parents are in town, and my nice but desperately confrontation avoidant father told me after I went into numb shock that I needed to "quit panicking" and "step back from the despair cliff". I went on a 10 minute rant about how minimizing and dismissive that felt, how scared he should be considering he's looking at taking care of my mother who has Huntingtons under a no more obamacare Trump, and then listed several more conditions of the nightmare we're living. I left the room. He came and found me and said "I'm sorry I said that. It hurts me to see you so scared and it makes me want to fix it but I understand what you are saying. You are saying we can't polish this turd and you are right. I tried and now I just have shit all over me, don't I. I love you." I am going to cherish this apology and this act of compassion and understanding for the rest of my life.

Current State
I am researching where to drop my biblical level tithing donation. I want the amount to hurt me a little. I feel so totally helpless. I feel like I'm being torn in half between the desire to take the high road and do outreach and keep trying and the desire to see the progressive party for once go low and have a spine and fight back and just get results to stop this fucking nightmare (riots? faithless electors? locking the doors of congress and the white house???). I've unblocked people on fb to start engaging, and I've been engaging, and it is exhuasting and I feel tired in a way that is all the way down to my bones and makes my eyes shut without my consent about five hours before I usually go to sleep.

Mostly I'm reading here. I want to hear all the options. I want to hear why the bad ones that would feel good are actually bad, and I want to hear why the hard ones that will work eventually are the right choice. I hate you all for being so reasonable and try hard and nerdy and knowledgeable and I would straight up die of ignorance and self indulgence if it wasn't for this community. So thanks. I'm listening. And thanks to the mods for all the work it takes to make this possible.
posted by skrozidile at 8:41 AM on November 15, 2016 [28 favorites]

Ben Carson, who ran for nomination as the Republican candidate for President, has turned down the position of Secretary of HHS, saying "Dr. Carson feels he has no government experience; he's never run a federal agency. The last thing he would want to do was take a position that could cripple the presidency." [real]
posted by Joe in Australia at 8:42 AM on November 15, 2016 [70 favorites]

Wow. Moment of clarity for Dr Carson. Good on him. ??
posted by ian1977 at 8:45 AM on November 15, 2016 [2 favorites]

Is Ben Carson dropping a sick burn there?? Surely that's intentional.
posted by something something at 8:46 AM on November 15, 2016 [32 favorites]

@jonfavs Retweeted Donald J. Trump
Now we know: reminding Trump that he's a popular vote loser really annoys him. So let's keep doing it.

Could hit him where it hurts, photoshop 'Loser' over 'Trump' on pictures of the Trump properties around the world.
posted by ZeusHumms at 8:47 AM on November 15, 2016

"Dr. Carson feels he has no government experience; he's never run a federal agency. The last thing he would want to do was take a position that could cripple the presidency."

Translation: "I was only ever in this for the grift. I— I thought everybody already knew this?"
posted by Atom Eyes at 8:47 AM on November 15, 2016 [40 favorites]

Carson continues to strike me as fundamentally well-intentioned and good-natured, and just unfortunately also completely stark raving bonkers.
posted by Scattercat at 8:48 AM on November 15, 2016 [42 favorites]

Ben Carson, who ran for nomination as the Republican candidate for President...

Ben Carson ran to sell more books. Trump also ran just to increase his Q score, but he fucked even that up.
posted by Etrigan at 8:48 AM on November 15, 2016 [4 favorites]

adamgreenfield, the concept you're looking for is probably "racial innumeracy". Charles Gallagher has an article that tries to explain why whites are subject to misperceiving the real racial demographics of their environment: "Miscounting Race"

And here is a really nice survey of recent work on how manipulating perceptions of their changing majority status affects whites' views on tolerance, authoritarianism, identity, and so on: "When the Majority Becomes the Minority"
posted by informavore at 8:48 AM on November 15, 2016 [4 favorites]

adamgreefield, this article might help you track it down.

Notion of Minority-Majority Nation Exacerbates White Racism

It talks about and links to a research paper on Group Threat Theory that talks about how threat is related to the size of the minority group in comparison to the majority.
posted by chris24 at 8:48 AM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

Carson sees the impending shitshow and is getting out of dodge, I'd wager.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 8:48 AM on November 15, 2016 [7 favorites]

Robert Reich inviting people to join him on a live Facebook event at 11 am Pacific / 2 pm Eastern "to discuss steps for a peaceful resistance to what is about to happen."
posted by compartment at 8:51 AM on November 15, 2016 [2 favorites]

So, I just thought:
Imagine if Trump actually lives in NYC during his tenure. Imagine him getting booed at wherever he goes. Imagine his fragile little ego imploding in on itself.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 8:52 AM on November 15, 2016 [4 favorites]

He'll just have them arrested. He's pretty much the Red Queen from Alice in Wonderland, in a suit.
posted by mochapickle at 8:53 AM on November 15, 2016 [4 favorites]

Thanks, informavore, that's it. And to you as well, chris24 and soren_lorensen. That's a solid chunk of my talk right there, if I can, uh, weaponize those findings in the way I'll need to. You have my gratitude.

Anyone in Toronto next Monday night should feel free to come, BTW, if this is your kind of thing. I'm happy to bring you along as my +n.
posted by adamgreenfield at 8:53 AM on November 15, 2016 [3 favorites]

Imagine if Trump actually lives in NYC during his tenure. Imagine him getting booed at wherever he goes. Imagine his fragile little ego imploding in on itself.

Guys like him have "If they're booing you, that means you're doing something right" tattooed on the inside of their eyelids.
posted by Etrigan at 8:53 AM on November 15, 2016

Imagine if Trump actually lives in NYC during his tenure

I would really like him to get the hell out thanks
posted by zutalors! at 8:54 AM on November 15, 2016 [6 favorites]

If anyone here tunes into that Robert reich event (I'm at work and can't), I think we'd all appreciate it if you could relay the bullet point here!
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 8:55 AM on November 15, 2016 [4 favorites]

So, I just thought:
Imagine if Trump actually lives in NYC during his tenure. Imagine him getting booed at wherever he goes. Imagine his fragile little ego imploding in on itself.

I feel like there'd be a standing protest we'd all take shifts on. I don't know why I think that would happen here but not at the white house, but it feels right.
posted by Brainy at 8:55 AM on November 15, 2016 [5 favorites]

Trump has said he wants to spend part of his time as president in NYC. So SS wants to close 5th ave. near Trump Tower when he's in town.
posted by Etrigan at 8:56 AM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

I just called my rep and one of my senators. The good news is that they've both denounced Bannon publicly. (The other senator is impossible to reach.)

I'm from a pretty solid blue state and my congresspeople are all very liberal. (Elizabeth Warren is my state senator.) I almost feel pointless reaching out like this. Should I keep doing so?
posted by pxe2000 at 8:57 AM on November 15, 2016 [7 favorites]

well, that'll help him make friends and influence people
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:57 AM on November 15, 2016 [2 favorites]

The secret service is proposing shutting down 5th ave in midtown on the days Trump is residing at Trump Tower. Think of how much DC shuts down when the president's motorcade goes by. Now imagine that in midtown Manhattan. We can't allow him to live in NYC. We must make it uninhabitable for him.
posted by melissasaurus at 8:57 AM on November 15, 2016 [8 favorites]

I don't know why I think that would happen here but not at the white house, but it feels right.

Because 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue is heavily restricted and the Secret Service can't possibly shut down an entire block of 5th avenue and the tower with all of the businesses, shoppers, and employees that come and go.
posted by Talez at 8:57 AM on November 15, 2016

I'm from a pretty solid blue state and my congresspeople are all very liberal. (Elizabeth Warren is my state senator.) I almost feel pointless reaching out like this. Should I keep doing so?

YES - they need to know they have STRONG support and can fight him hard.
posted by melissasaurus at 8:58 AM on November 15, 2016 [22 favorites]

Trump has said he wants to spend part of his time as president in NYC. So SS wants to close 5th ave. near Trump Tower when he's in town.

So he's going to make America great by forcing some local businesses, is that the plan?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:58 AM on November 15, 2016

Ben Carson reportedly turned down an offer to serve as HHS secretary, and won't join the Trump administration.

This seemed like good news for a half-second until I realized it meant someone even shittier and less-qualified will now be offered the position.
posted by aught at 9:01 AM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

The Trump Administration is going to have a very hard time recruiting talented staffers other than the usual bunch of theocrats from Liberty U.

Think about it- Trump is already record levels unpopular with most of the country. He has absolutely no administration experience. It's quite probably that he's going to bungle stuff to the nth degree. Like make the Dubya administration seem competent.

If you are a young up and comer in the Republican party do you really want TRUMP on your resume?

Trump will get the various secretaries filled but the lower level staffers who actually have to learn how to move the bureaucracy of state? Nah nobody is going to want to do that and you are likely going to see a huge number of senior government employees with countless years of institutional knowledge opting to retire.

I think we're probably going to have to rely primarily on institutional inertia for the next 4 years.
posted by vuron at 9:02 AM on November 15, 2016 [3 favorites]

The other senator is impossible to reach.

Are you calling Washington offices (202 area code)? I've heard from friends on Facebook that they're having a harder time connecting to DC offices. In-state offices seem to have had better luck.

I'm from a pretty solid blue state and my congresspeople are all very liberal. (Elizabeth Warren is my state senator.) I almost feel pointless reaching out like this. Should I keep doing so?

Thank you so much for calling! It's not pointless. It's not enough for our elected reps to be on our side — they need to be vocally on our side. The more we speak to them, the more they speak out on our behalf. This about stopping the normalization of white nationalism. This is about pushing back at every opportunity.
posted by compartment at 9:02 AM on November 15, 2016 [5 favorites]

This seemed like good news for a half-second until I realized it meant someone even shittier and less-qualified will now be offered the position.

My first response was "That's not possible." My second response was sustained groaning with the realization that yes, yes that is possible. Like some sort of pseudo-Pence stepping in for HHS.
posted by mochapickle at 9:03 AM on November 15, 2016 [5 favorites]

If you are a young up and comer in the Republican party do you really want TRUMP on your resume? Yes? He's going to be the President.
posted by zutalors! at 9:04 AM on November 15, 2016 [3 favorites]

To put it in perspective as to the district Trump is in, Tiffany & Co is on the corner next to Trump Tower. Louis Vutton, BVLGARI, Van Cleef, Giorgio Armani, Chanel, Dior, Saint Laurent are all across the road from that block. IBM is in the 590 Madison next door on the same block! Some of the most expensive 5th Avenue stores would have to wholesale pick up and move if the SS decided to shut it all down.

This is completely fucking insane.
posted by Talez at 9:04 AM on November 15, 2016 [18 favorites]

the same lies about gasoline taxes. In real, inflation adjusted dollars, gasoline taxes are about as low as they have been in decades

So this is kind of a great example of why things are in the terrible state they're in.

I really value Metafilter as a community, and especially those of you who have been slogging away in the election threads for months together I feel have formed a really great, supportive community that is honestly quite important to me. So if I'm going to post about tangible data, I feel I owe it to the community not to be bringing bullshit or fake news.

So before I posted about gas taxes and how I feel about them, I checked data to make sure I wasn't posting BS. I checked for inflation-adjusted gas prices - and found some on energy.gov, which seemed to be a reasonably reputable source.

In 1951, inflation adjusted price of gas per the federal government started at $2.03 - it raised to a peak of $2.08 and a low of $1.94. In 1961, adjusted gas prices started at $1.91, that being its peak, with a low of $1.72. For this decade: in 2011, adjusted gas prices start at $3.75, with a low of $2.45. That's before the state gas tax for my state: which in 1951 was a penny (adjusted value: 0.09) and is now 44.5 cents, roughly 5 times, even adjusted, as it was. That means in inflation adjusted terms, peak for this decade I am paying an additional $2.02 a gallon than I would in the 1950s and $2.20 a gallon than I would in the 1960s. At low point, I would be paying an additional $0.86 a gallon more than the 1950s and $1.28 more a gallon than the 1960s - in inflation adjusted prices.

Thus, if we were using inflation adjusted overall prices, not just tax, at peak I would actually be paying 363$ more a month than the 1950s, and at low point, $154.80 more a month.

Without checking to see what data I was using, you called it not just wrong, but lies. Because I'm a Republican and was talking about something important to Republicans, you assumed that I was not just using bad data, but actively lying, or at best, believing lies. That partisan gap allowed you to immediately dismiss what I was saying. And when you said that, I felt insulted and dismissed. I felt like even though I brought my best to the conversation, you assumed it was my worst.

And we're in a community that explicitly tries to value each other, a community that is opt-in, a community built and founded on trust. Now try to imagine those impulses in a community - America - that is not opt in, that doesn't trust each other very much at all. Where instead of simply feeling hurt, the response is to assume malice and inflate it to "The Other Side".

We're in for a long, hard road, and I think if we're going to travel it and come out the side, we need to do so together, and try to give each other our best. I honestly don't know how we'll survive it else.
posted by corb at 9:04 AM on November 15, 2016 [64 favorites]

My first response was "That's not possible." My second response was sustained groaning with the realization that yes, yes that is possible

Dr. Oz, duh.
posted by uncleozzy at 9:05 AM on November 15, 2016 [2 favorites]

We can't allow him to live in NYC. We must make it uninhabitable for him.

Fix giant placards of Alan Sugar to every available surface.
posted by Sonny Jim at 9:06 AM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

White Women Vote Republican: The elephant in the room is white and female, and she has been standing there since 1952. This result has been hiding in plain sight, obscured by a normative bias that women are more Democratic than men. They are, and it is also true that white women are more supportive today of Democratic Party candidates than white men. But this does not mean that that white women are more Democratic overall. They are not.

While the white female vote is often closely split between the two major parties, white women have only voted more Democratic than Republican twice in the 17 U.S. Presidential elections since 1952 (in 1964 and 1996). Instead, it is the introduction and steady growth of minority voters in the U.S. electorate over the last six decades that drives higher overall proportions of female support for Democratic Party candidates.
posted by TwoStride at 9:06 AM on November 15, 2016 [4 favorites]

The Trump Administration is going to have a very hard time recruiting talented staffers other than the usual bunch of theocrats from Liberty U.

The Trump team is already cannabilizing itself in the name of loyalty and ideological purity. The one faint glimmer of hope I have from all this is that the complete lack of any idea of how to govern will open up many opportunities to tie things up in court. Even if the Republicans load the Supreme Court, there is a limit to the volume of cases that can be heard in a given year. And to get to the Supreme Court, that often requires an initial ruling from a lower court from the more sympathetic DC circuit.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 9:08 AM on November 15, 2016 [4 favorites]

Thus, if we were using inflation adjusted overall prices, not just tax, at peak I would actually be paying 363$ more a month than the 1950s, and at low point, $154.80 more a month.

I guess I think it's unreasonable to expect the price of a good derived from an unreplenishable natural resource to not increase over the course of 60 years.
posted by melissasaurus at 9:13 AM on November 15, 2016 [10 favorites]

It's not just that Trump will be terrible, he'll be asking people to do illegal things and not let them say no. If he gets to 2020 without a scandal of at least Watergate level, I'll paint myself purple and rename myself Mr Aubergine Having any part of the Trump legacy attached to you will be suicidal, and that's the pragmatic approach - long before you ask yourself whether morally or ethically you could work for this man.

The Trump administration will be an absolute cavalcade of evil clowns.
posted by Devonian at 9:15 AM on November 15, 2016 [5 favorites]

A good tweetstorm on normalization from Anand Giridharadas.
posted by zachlipton at 9:17 AM on November 15, 2016 [6 favorites]

If you are a young up and comer in the Republican party do you really want TRUMP on your resume? Yes? He's going to be the President.

You might be surprised how many not-as-young-anymore up and comers in the Republican Party downplay what they were doing from 2001 to 2009.
posted by Etrigan at 9:17 AM on November 15, 2016 [3 favorites]

The postmortem of the Clinton campaign keeps looking worse and worse. Their decision to go hard after Arizona was highly questionable at the time, and is now proven unconscionable.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:17 AM on November 15, 2016 [3 favorites]

The Trump Administration is going to have a very hard time recruiting talented staffers other than the usual bunch of theocrats from Liberty U.

My prediction is it's going to be mostly a Dunning-Krueger syndrome grouping of staff. The ones smart enough to know what's up, no matter affiliation, won't touch it, but those that think they're uber smart but aren't so much, won't know enough to realize the deal and be all over it.

So basically a bunch of staff that think they're the best ever but really aren't in practice.
posted by Jalliah at 9:18 AM on November 15, 2016 [3 favorites]

corb, but really no one talking about the good old days is seriously comparing gas prices to the 1950s. Hell, my mom who's 70 wasn't driving until 1964. They're comparing to Reagan, or Bush, or before it shot up when goddamn Obama took office. And if you're going to compare 1950s' costs for transportation to now, you need to look at more than just price per gallon, because cars go a lot further on a gallon than in the 1950s. So even if gas is more expensive now, it's doesn't mean a person is spending more for the equivalent amount of transportation.
posted by chris24 at 9:18 AM on November 15, 2016 [7 favorites]

If he gets to 2020 without a scandal of at least Watergate level

He didn't even get to the election
posted by theodolite at 9:18 AM on November 15, 2016 [11 favorites]

Yeah but in 1950 you'd get 3 miles to the gallon so that has to be factored in no?
posted by ian1977 at 9:21 AM on November 15, 2016 [3 favorites]

Nothing to add at this point other than a few things that have come up from others, starting with something from that Will Wheaton piece that got linked to a while back:

The Democrats have a stark choice right now: Whose Side Are You On, Democrats? Will you continue doing the same thing that’s been losing elections across the nation since 2010, or will you listen to America and fight for the middle class? Will you fight to restore unions? Will you fight to hold executives accountable when they hurt their employees? Will you make it your fundamental priority to fight for the people who are about to be royally screwed by complete Republican control of government?

Because unless the answer to all of these questions is YES, and unless the entire Democratic Party leadership is completely replaced, because accountability starts at the top, Democrats will continue to lose until we have single party, right-wing rule in America. And I say “rule” because Republicans don’t lead, they rule.

And then from Vaclav Havel (emphasis mine)

his speech "A Word about Words."

Nothing in it that's directly pertinent. But it's a start. Especially given that we are in a marathon, not a sprint.

And finally, what corb just said ...

Without checking to see what data I was using, you called it not just wrong, but lies. Because I'm a Republican and was talking about something important to Republicans, you assumed that I was not just using bad data, but actively lying, or at best, believing lies. That partisan gap allowed you to immediately dismiss what I was saying. And when you said that, I felt insulted and dismissed. I felt like even though I brought my best to the conversation, you assumed it was my worst.

[...]

We're in for a long, hard road, and I think if we're going to travel it and come out the side, we need to do so together, and try to give each other our best. I honestly don't know how we'll survive it else.

So yeah, TAKING ACTION NOW is all well and good, but this ain't some border skirmish, this is a long and complex season we're entering unto ... even if Trump gets impeached before he takes office (probably even more so if this happens).
posted by philip-random at 9:22 AM on November 15, 2016 [2 favorites]

NYT: The End of the Postracial Myth: “I don’t want to throw Granny out in the snow, and I think the least of our brothers should be taken care of,” she said. “But I think that those who can work should.” Douglas said there was a time in her life where she was struggling, and so she applied for welfare for herself and her young children but was denied. She didn’t think that was fair, but she worked hard and turned her life around. But these days, she said, “I kind of think for some social programs there is no stigma.”
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:23 AM on November 15, 2016

I think the price of gas thing isn't really the point. Corb gave the numbers she was working from and was accused of lying or making them up. The conversation you're / we're having now about addressing inflation w/r/t gas prices and people's incomes is the conversation I'm assuming she wanted to have in the first place. We shouldn't have to first go through layers of bad faith and assumed bad faith to get there.

I don't know what the solution is. Dangerously polarizing person got elected, everyone is now so polarized and the stakes are so high that it feels impossible (for me anyhow) to come back to the "all people are basically good and we need to work together" place we need to be in to get past it all and move forward in a progressive way.

I used to like seeing a big number on my facebook notifications. Now I dread it. Who did I just start a fight with this time? How can I couch my words with them so I can find a way to try and build consensus instead of scorching the earth like I want to, when I already suspect they are actively working toward (or at least rooting for) the things that horrify me?

We have to get out of this. I agree with the finger pointing - there are places where blame fucking belongs. But it isn't helpful, and it might make things worse. I don't know. I feel hopeless about so much. And dreading interactions with people I care about. And it's only been a week.
posted by Mchelly at 9:27 AM on November 15, 2016 [29 favorites]

One thing I think about the long hard slog, etc: I think it wouldn't hurt mefites to meet up locally or regionally. The opportunity for us to misunderstand each other over perceived tone, data use, etc, is pretty large on the internet, even here. And the a misunderstanding with someone you've met, who you know for real, feels different than a misunderstanding with a pixel identity, even if you've known that pixel person for a long time.

We're going to have to come together across political differences if we're going to fight this thing, and it's a lot easier for anarchists and progressives and the occasional republican-of-good-will and socialists and liberals to get along if we meet each other face to face.

I would be up for local/regional mefite anti-Trump meet-ups.
posted by Frowner at 9:29 AM on November 15, 2016 [24 favorites]

I contacted my representative and senators to ask for tickets to the Inauguration. Not because I want to go, but because I want to see a bunch of empty seats in the news coverage. Super simple, takes almost no time away from more important actions. My rep even has a web form for this so I didn't even have to send an email.
posted by last_fall at 9:31 AM on November 15, 2016 [17 favorites]

Their decision to go hard after Arizona was highly questionable at the time, and is now proven unconscionable.

Yeah, at a certain point at least a couple weeks before the election the effort just seemed desperate. And now, when you look at it in light of the complete bypass of Wisconsin, you really have to wonder what they were thinking. At the very least, people don't like to be made to feel taken for granted.
posted by fuse theorem at 9:33 AM on November 15, 2016 [4 favorites]

A good tweetstorm on normalization from Anand Giridharadas.

Awesome, that was the guy who went on Morning Joe months ago to say that white people were scared by people like him moving into their neighborhoods, and he has to understand that.
posted by zutalors! at 9:33 AM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

Mod note: One deleted. Let's not go down the "focus on corb and her personal gas use" road.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 9:35 AM on November 15, 2016 [2 favorites]

@cam_joseph
.@SpeakerRyan on Steve Bannon pick: “This is a person who helped him win an incredible victory on an incredible campaign.” No criticism.


What a fucking craven piece of shit. Literally everybody needs to call his office regardless of if he's your rep. He's a constitutional officer as Speaker of the House, he works for everybody.
posted by chris24 at 9:35 AM on November 15, 2016 [33 favorites]

I would be up for local/regional mefite anti-Trump meet-ups.

Take appropriate precautions. I'm not even kidding.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:37 AM on November 15, 2016 [2 favorites]

A good tweetstorm on normalization from Anand Giridharadas.

Awesome, that was the guy who went on Morning Joe months ago to say that white people were scared by people like him moving into their neighborhoods, and he has to understand that.

in case it's not clear I didn't think that was awesome, I thought it was infuriating.
posted by zutalors! at 9:37 AM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

We can wait for more data on the non-white vote, but there just isn't a whole lot of evidence that Clinton performed as well as Obama outside of white people. Just four hours ago, the Washington Post cites LD's dissenting opinion, while still pointing out the uncomfortable truth.

Of course voter suppression is a real problem...but it wasn't voter suppression that stopped everyone everywhere. It wasn't voter suppression that prevented Team Clinton from mounting a game plan for Wisconsin. It wasn't voter suppression that prevented Team Clinton from using Spanish-language programs to anywhere near the extent of Obama. It isn't voter suppression that has caused certain tranches of the Hispanic vote to actually be quite conservative. Votes are *earned*, not given - you can never assume that you have certain demos on lock. Team Clinton could have done more to earn more votes. Dem leadership, going forward, needs to remember, and act upon the fact, that better plans need to be in place, and that more needs to be *done*.
posted by Sticherbeast at 9:37 AM on November 15, 2016 [8 favorites]

Not selecting Donald Trump president doesn't automatically deport him or anything, so he'd still be out there to rally and encourage his supporters. This is the kind of stuff actual civil wars are made of.

He's not going to rally if he has to foot the bill. And he's going to find out, quickly, that people who said, "I'm voting for him because he'll Get Things Done" are going to turn viciously on him when he doesn't do those things.

That won't be any consolation to the rest of us; they're not going to be any less vicious or violent to the people they wanted suppressed. But they're not going to decide that he was "shut down by The Man" without a lot of demagoguery from him - which he'd have to pay to provide. And some of them aren't going to believe anything he says after about Jan 31, when they still don't have a high paying job or cheap health care AND brown people still attend their kids' schools.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 9:39 AM on November 15, 2016 [2 favorites]

WaPo: New Balance: ‘Official Shoes of White People?'
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:39 AM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

WaPo: New Balance: ‘Official Shoes of White People?'

Aww, crap.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:41 AM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

WaPo: New Balance: ‘Official Shoes of White People?'

dammit stop ruining everything
posted by indubitable at 9:43 AM on November 15, 2016 [7 favorites]

Regarding white women, the white working class, poor whites, non-college whites, etc, these analyses are really being hurt by not understanding basic probability. We know (a) women support Democrats more than men, and (b) nonwhites support Democrats more than whites. Since (b) is a stronger effect than (a), white women are right on the cusp, often supporting Republicans more than Democrats. But is the lack of support among white women less than what you get if you just add (a) and (b)? There is no evidence for this.

Similarly with the "white working class": less educated / lower income white men and women supported Democrats less than in the past, and that support was especially low for white+noncollege+men. But was that support lower than we would expect for men (-) + white (-) + noncollege (-)? Those cross-tabs don't exist for past exit polls, but as far as I can tell, no. That is, there is nothing special about non-college men to distinguish them from men in general, except that they have the extra non-college part added on. There is nothing special about white men, apart from the fact that it is white + men.

What does that that mean? It means that this talk about "WWC" or white women is misguided, at least when applied to policy and campaign strategy. If each of these effects is separate, then each should be targeted separately, and no need for a particular campaign targeting *white* working class or *white* men or women. Essentially, these aren't independent categories, so they only exist, and should only be treated as, the intersection of other categories.

That doesn't change the fact that men, non-whites, and non-college supported Clinton somewhat less than Obama. But it means that there is no need to target WWC in particular: simply crafting policy that targets the working class in general (non-college, lower income) will do the job. Sanders and many othes on the left are definitely making a mistake in talking about the white working class in particular, when all indications are that this is not much to do with whiteness, just with the fact that Clinton lost some ground with the working class more generally. It's a distraction born out of a misunderstanding of probability (and lack of better cross-tabs, especially for non-whites), but in any case, the solution is fairly straightforward.

Inasmuch as we're worried about gaining back some of that lost ground (as opposed to many other possible strategies to gain the sorts of huge majorities we apparently need to beat the electoral college cheat), Democrats just need a slightly more populist economic message -- not to appeal to WWC, but to appeal more to the working class across the board. There's been a lot of objection to this recommendation because it looks like targeting bigoted whites in particular, but that's an error that's been compounded by Sanders, Moore, and others: all that's really needed is a message that targets the poorer, lower-education voters more generally, independent of race, with more of the usual populist economic promises aimed at their demographics.
posted by chortly at 9:43 AM on November 15, 2016 [2 favorites]

WaPo: New Balance: ‘Official Shoes of White People?'

So, more or less the Old Balance, then.
posted by Etrigan at 9:43 AM on November 15, 2016 [7 favorites]

We can wait for more data on the non-white vote, but there just isn't a whole lot of evidence that Clinton performed as well as Obama outside of white people. Just four hours ago, the Washington Post cites LD's dissenting opinion, while still pointing out the uncomfortable truth.

That's not 4 hours ago that's 4 days ago, Nov 11th. And besides the pretty strong argument in dissension Latino Decisions makes, exit polls are notoriously inaccurate and polls in general were notoriously inaccurate this year.

Just like turnout was down turned out to be wrong, until detailed analysis of actual voter data by party and county is analyzed, we don't know that minority turnout was down, much less why.
posted by chris24 at 9:43 AM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

And he's going to find out, quickly, that people who said, "I'm voting for him because he'll Get Things Done" are going to turn viciously on him when he doesn't do those things.

or his own personal Joe Goebbels will effectively deflect all the blame to opposition (including internal GOP) ... and on we go.
posted by philip-random at 9:43 AM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

For anyone curious about the EC, this is happening.

Those are the same dumbbutts who said they would refuse to vote for Hillary Clinton. And now they won't vote for Trump (who didn't win their state anyway). I'm not sure they understand how this whole electoral system works.
posted by Justinian at 9:45 AM on November 15, 2016 [9 favorites]

really no one talking about the good old days is seriously comparing gas prices to the 50s

This kind of relates to the broader point I was hoping to make. I don't think anyone is consciously comparing, say, gas prices, or dairy prices, or any particular prices, to the 1950s and saying 'Well that's it, that's why my life sucks.' But I do think that for a lot of reasons - many of them sensible - prices are increasing on a lot of the common goods and markers that made a "middle class life" in the 1950s, at the same time as real wages are decreasing, thus making them increasingly less attainable. And I think that is what people are reacting to.

I think it's also really important to remember that people are never socialized for the prices and time and social expectations they're actually living in. They're socialized into a combination which includes the standard of life their parents were living in and the one they grew up in. The reason we're talking about the 1950s and 1960s, 60 years later, is because they are still the standard that many people measure themselves against, and feel shame compared to. They think, "My parents had a house when they were 25, I should be able to have a house when I'm 25. My mother never had to work, why do I/does my wife have to? My parents sent me to sleep away summer camp, why can't I afford to send my kids?"

That's what people are angry about. They're not saying "Am I better off than I was ten years ago?" They're saying, "Am I able to better the life my parents led?" And the answer, again, for a lot of reasons, for a lot of people, is "no". And they may never be able to, ever again. And what do you do about that? How do you message to that? I don't know the answer, but I know it needs to be solved, because if not, the fascists will have an answer, and it's not one that we are going to like. As we see borne out by this election.
posted by corb at 9:46 AM on November 15, 2016 [46 favorites]

Yes, thanks for that script, melissasaurus! I haaaaaAAAAAaaaaAAAAte cold calling people and used it to to call Sen. Menendez's office (Booker's already made a statement) and got through without stumbling.
posted by kimberussell at 9:48 AM on November 15, 2016 [2 favorites]

Sometimes the reason they claim they can't live the life their parents did is because of entitled minorities taking all that governmental assistance. I don't see many actually looking at reality like Metafilter does.
posted by agregoli at 9:50 AM on November 15, 2016 [8 favorites]

Obama Is Warning America About Trump’s Presidency. Are You Listening?

Well, this is reassuring. Not.
posted by chris24 at 9:51 AM on November 15, 2016 [21 favorites]

They're saying, "Am I able to better the life my parents led?"

I agree with this, but I think for a startlingly high number of white people 'the life my parents led' was one where non-white, non-male, non-hetero people knew their place.
posted by Mooski at 9:52 AM on November 15, 2016 [16 favorites]

or his own personal Joe Goebbels will effectively deflect all the blame to opposition (including internal GOP) ... and on we go.

If he can't get things done because the Dems are too entrenched, too powerful, too successful at blocking him... his narrative fails. His pitch was, "I will stomp all over their liberal coalitions and give you the country you deserve." There is no option for "well, folks, I tried, but they were too much for me."

Some will buy that - but not all, and he'll lose the overwhelming enthusiasm and support. And a lot will turn on him.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 9:52 AM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

DNC Aiming To Reconnect With Working-Class Americans With New ‘Hamilton’-Inspired Lena Dunham Web Series

[fake]
posted by Cookiebastard at 9:53 AM on November 15, 2016 [13 favorites]

Nice new balance are the only running shoes i can reliably find in my size and width

I recently switched to Brooks which have triple wide and offer excellent choices in regards to support. They were a little more expensive but in light of this news I'm missy going to pretend that I had a premonition that I should boycott New Balance.
posted by Joey Michaels at 9:53 AM on November 15, 2016 [2 favorites]

I don't think a boycott makes a ton of sense?
posted by zutalors! at 9:55 AM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

or his own personal Joe Goebbels will effectively deflect all the blame to opposition (including internal GOP) ... and on we go.

If he can't get things done because the Dems are too entrenched, too powerful, too successful at blocking him... his narrative fails. His pitch was, "I will stomp all over their liberal coalitions and give you the country you deserve." There is no option for "well, folks, I tried, but they were too much for me."

It'll be the Dems and the RINOs. Those fat cats who have actually held office and don't want to lose their bloated Congressional salaries that you pay for, and remember, he doesn't take any monetary reward for leading us.
posted by Etrigan at 9:56 AM on November 15, 2016

My partner can only wear NB as well because of his arthritis.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:56 AM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

I don't think a boycott makes a ton of sense?

Well I'm pretty sure saying "fuck New Balance" in public here in Boston will get the shit kicked out of me so I think I'll stick with not buying their shoes.
posted by Talez at 9:57 AM on November 15, 2016 [2 favorites]

Some will buy that - but not all, and he'll lose the overwhelming enthusiasm and support. And a lot will turn on him.

And what happens when a sitting president with self esteem issues feels like everyone is turning on him?

I worry what he will do when he's popular, but I'm terrified what he will do when he's not.
posted by Mooski at 9:59 AM on November 15, 2016 [5 favorites]

London Review of Books: "Consider the working-class voters whom the Clintons or the Blairs exhorted to vote for them in the 1990s: they are probably worse off now than they were then. In effect the Clintons and Blairs surfed on their grievances and inequities, making themselves rich and leaving their voters in the dust."
posted by Coda Tronca at 10:00 AM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

I have a pair of New Balances that I paid a premium for because they're made in America. I don't think my support for shoes that are made in a country with better pay, labor protections, and safety regulation is a blow for white supremacy, and I'm satisfied that the company rejected the explicit racists. I wish they hadn't made statement in favor of Trump though.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 10:01 AM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

I worry what he will do when he's popular, but I'm terrified what he will do when he's not.

"Before I drop this match, have I shown you my fiddle?"
posted by Joey Michaels at 10:01 AM on November 15, 2016 [5 favorites]

I worry what he will do when he's popular, but I'm terrified what he will do when he's not.

Go on a tour, leave Pence to fuck things up in his own evil way, and call in to the morning shows to talk about how tremendous it was to draw 600 people to a super-exclusive event where they turned away thousands and thousands of people.
posted by Etrigan at 10:02 AM on November 15, 2016

I don't think a boycott makes a ton of sense?

Well I'm pretty sure saying "fuck New Balance" in public here in Boston will get the shit kicked out of me so I think I'll stick with not buying their shoes.

Um. Ok. I was just saying that the people who feel like they need to buy those shoes for health/comfort reasons probably shouldn't feel too badly about that since the company itself is not claiming to be "for white people" as far as what I read at least.
posted by zutalors! at 10:02 AM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

Called Jeff Flake about the filibuster today; his office staff was receptive and courteous. Mentioned Bannon again and they said he has not issued a statement on that. I said I understood that it takes time to put together an appropriate statement and that I hoped that he would.

Also called a few senators out-of-state who haven't yet strongly spoken up on Bannon and said that I would like them to do so. The calls get easier every day.
posted by compartment at 10:04 AM on November 15, 2016 [7 favorites]

The New Balance issue is infurating to me because they actually make a physical thing, here in the US. Here in Maine, in fact. Hundreds of real manufacturing jobs that have somehow stayed here, and are providing fairly decent (not stellar, but truly a living wage for the fairly impoverished community they're in) jobs.

Now, yes, they have walked back their statement somewhat, but they're definitely going to feel it. And you can be pretty certain that it will be the rank and file stitchers and gluers and packers who will take the brunt of any boycott, not the management or shareholders.

So, on one hand I don't want to support them. On the other hand, I want to make sure my neighbors have jobs.
posted by anastasiav at 10:05 AM on November 15, 2016 [13 favorites]

I don't know much about Guliani, being in Australia, except something-something-9/11 and his Wikipedia page. Can anyone fill me in on his failings, other than being a Trumpeteer?

He's been on TV all the time basically making Trump look sane in comparison.
posted by bongo_x at 10:07 AM on November 15, 2016

Imagine if Trump actually lives in NYC during his tenure.

I really, really wish DeBlasio and Cuomo would say that neither NYC nor NYS are going to expend a single dollar in helping him do that. No personnel time on coordination, no officers assigned away from normal duties, no overtime for anyone, no street closures. If Trump and the Secret Service want to spend time in NYC, it's on them.

If you live in NYC, which I don't, you might pester your councilperson and DeBlasio's office about it.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 10:08 AM on November 15, 2016 [13 favorites]

I don't know much about Guliani, being in Australia, except something-something-9/11

That's pretty much all he knows either, so you're good.
posted by Etrigan at 10:08 AM on November 15, 2016 [26 favorites]

Is New Balance's distinguisher that they are made in the US? Because I just checked my recent pair and they were made in Indonesia.
posted by indubitable at 10:08 AM on November 15, 2016

McCain sends a warning to Trump: Don't Trust Putin

Putin signaled Monday that he's ready to work with Trump and improve relations, but McCain told the incoming president to watch his back. Hours after Trump and Putin spoke, Russia on Tuesday announced it was resuming bombing runs on the city of Aleppo using aircraft brought to the region by the aircraft carrier Admiral Kuznetsov.

"We should place as much faith in such statements as any other made by a former KGB agent who has plunged his country into tyranny, murdered his political opponents, invaded his neighbors, threatened America's allies and attempted to undermine America's elections," McCain said in the statement.

Yes, the hypocrisy is bile-raising, but we absolutely need to see more of this type of push-back from prominent Republicans.
posted by Atom Eyes at 10:09 AM on November 15, 2016 [28 favorites]

if I can figure out a way to get a safety pin into the New Balance shoes I've got (that are really quite good for my pronation issues), does that mean I can keep them?
posted by philip-random at 10:09 AM on November 15, 2016 [3 favorites]

I don't think a [New Balance] boycott makes a ton of sense?

Yeah, the CEO opposes the TPP—a position most MeFites would support—but his initial phrasing was, to be kind, inartful. A boycott makes no sense at all, but the situation points out how surreal things are.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 10:10 AM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

More with the bullshit. First, you stop in 2015. Gas prices have gone down significantly in the last year. Second, you are double counting taxes. Those federal prices you are quoting are prices at the pump, already including federal and state sales taxes, so you can't go and add taxes again to your numbers and complain that you are getting gouged. Third, and most important your car today gets twice the gas mileage of cars in the 1950s (thanks to the EPA, by the way), so you are spending half as much on gas as you used to. So it is simply false that people are spending more money on gas than they were in the 1950s -- full stop.

This bullshit is based on fantasy -- that the liberal agenda and the EPA have somehow degraded the living standards of the middle class and Democrats refuse to address it.

This gas thing is not the point. It is only illustrative of how the Republican bullshit machine works. The point is that Republicans start from a stubborn internalized conclusion -- government is bad, taxes are too high, life was better in the 1950s -- and then invent some bullshit story that supports the preconceived conclusion -- liberals and the EPA are raising gas prices, immigrants are taking our jobs, crime is way up. It's a pattern that should be recognized and not excused.
posted by JackFlash at 10:11 AM on November 15, 2016 [11 favorites]

Some of their shoes (about 25% per an article I looked up) are made in the US. The ones I bought I bought at a store that works to sell only American made shoes where possible (I think they succeed for men's shoes, but not women's, but I could be off).
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 10:12 AM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

A bit more detail on the New Balance thing (via Racked):

LeBretton told NPR earlier this year that New Balance kept quiet about its dislike for TPP because the Obama administration promised to contract the company to make sneakers for the military. The military is required to buy products made entirely in the US and New Balance’s sneakers met those specifications. “The sole unit's Carolina. The outsole is Massachusetts. Ohio is the insert. Shoelaces are Rhode Island,” David Sullivan, the shoe’s engineer, told NPR.

However, the deal never came to fruition because, as the Office of the US Trade Representative told NPR in a written statement, New Balance’s sneakers weren’t up to the military’s standards. New Balance promised to vocally oppose the TPP because of the fallout.

Oy, the sausage making.
posted by notyou at 10:13 AM on November 15, 2016 [11 favorites]

In re New Balance: some are made in the US; the majority are not. A number of shoe companies do this now - Allen Edmonds, Wolverine, etc. They have a flagship variety of shoe that is made here and costs more, and that serves as a talking point/marketing device for the company, while the majority of their shoes are made (or partially assembled, as with AE) overseas.

On the one hand, this frosts me because it's marketing and some people buy the non-US-made ones without realizing that they're made in China, etc; on the other hand, it's jobs and may possibly grow the market.
posted by Frowner at 10:13 AM on November 15, 2016 [5 favorites]

>"We should place as much faith in such statements as any other made by a former KGB agent who has plunged his country into tyranny, murdered his political opponents, invaded his neighbors, threatened America's allies and attempted to undermine America's elections," McCain said in the statement.

Maybe BEFORE the election would have been a good time for everybody to meditate on the question of what, exactly, Trump admires about Putin. Since it's pretty much got to be one of the things that McCain listed. Or all of them.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 10:15 AM on November 15, 2016 [8 favorites]

I think it's also really important to remember that people are never socialized for the prices and time and social expectations they're actually living in. They're socialized into a combination which includes the standard of life their parents were living in and the one they grew up in.

You've said this before -- about the cultural "time shifts" of your own personal experience in different locations -- and I think it's on the mark. The future is unevenly distributed, and so is the past. There's a collision of "the luxuries are cheap, but the essentials are expensive" with a mass media / mass consumer culture that lays everything out on the table.

"Consider the working-class voters whom the Clintons or the Blairs exhorted to vote for them in the 1990s: they are probably worse off now than they were then..."

That "probably" is doing a lot of work, given that whatever you think of the Blairs (and I do not think much of them) the Labour government reduced poverty.
posted by holgate at 10:17 AM on November 15, 2016 [5 favorites]

Sen. Chuck Schumer's Plea to Despondent LGBT Community: I will not forget what happened at Stonewall or what happened at Pulse — or any of the countless physical assaults, emotional taunts, and bullying endured by homosexual fellow citizens over the generations. I will not forget North Carolina’s passage of House Bill 2 or the trickle-down of hateful rhetoric inspired by these laws that causes children to take their own lives rather than continue to face the torment of bullies at school. I will not forget the 24 transgender Americans murdered this year alone.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:20 AM on November 15, 2016 [17 favorites]

I live in the Bay Area, so the gas price talks are always pretty funny to me. The cheap station I go to has regular unleaded at $2.59/gallon; it's $2.79/gallon at the station across the street. But I'm just a coastal elite that's subsidizing the red states and their cheap gas.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:20 AM on November 15, 2016 [9 favorites]

Somebody compare huffing gas in the 50s versus huffing gas now
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 10:22 AM on November 15, 2016 [16 favorites]

More lead in 50s gas which uhh, more brain damage? Adjusted for inflation.
posted by notyou at 10:26 AM on November 15, 2016 [6 favorites]

Paul Ryan's office number is 202-225-3031 if you want to express your feelings regarding Bannon.
posted by chris24 at 10:26 AM on November 15, 2016 [3 favorites]

Credible source tells me Kris Kobach likely Attorney General.

This is who that is, if you are unfamiliar.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:32 AM on November 15, 2016

The president-elect is failing his first chance at greatness, very much like the last president-elect that lost the popular vote. More people voted for their opponents than voted for them, 2 million+ and counting in this case. The president-elect needs to bring the country together, and it's on him because he's the president-elect and because his racist rhetoric has caused most of the divisiveness. What we need is something like Lincoln's 2nd Inaugural Address:

With malice toward none, with charity for all, with firmness in the right as God gives us to see the right, let us strive on to finish the work we are in, to bind up the nation's wounds, to care for him who shall have borne the battle and for his widow and his orphan, to do all which may achieve and cherish a just and lasting peace among ourselves and with all nations.

What we're getting instead is "got mine; fuck you."
posted by kirkaracha at 10:33 AM on November 15, 2016 [3 favorites]

hey so.

this isn't about the gas tax.

One of the things we're learning is that we've been trained by this wretched system of social media to trust claims not because they're supported by meaningful evidence, but because we've been exposed to those claims over and over again. We have gaslit ourselves.

Right now we are all on the same team; team antifascist. Because the stakes are so high and because we're all on the same team, we desperately need to continue to develop and encourage a culture / style of discourse where we can spot each others' cognitive distortions / beliefs unsupported by facts and say "hey you got a cite on that?" without it seeming/feeling like a personal attack. We all have blind spots and we've all got to look out for each others' blind spots and also we've got to be kind about it. Having a blind spot isn't a personal failing and it's not a sign of ill will; it's the human condition. No one can get to anything like the truth by themselves.

Example: deep upthread there was an exchange (since rightfully deleted) about the history of race and the labor movement; one of the participants found some figures that indicated that a claim that another Mefite had made that seemed reasonable — reasonable because it was cynical, and we're cynical people in a cynical time — was in fact not true and pointed to reliable data that showed that it wasn't true. This would have been a really good thing — except the commenter who put up the good data framed it in terms of a personal attack on the Mefite who made the original claim.

I don't know the exact wording, the best way to say "hey you got a cite on that?" that indicates that we're all working together on a mutual project to gather the information we need to survive these horrifying times, rather than just trying to humiliate or score points off each other. prolly there's people here with more training/experience in nonviolent communication who have a better sense than I do of how to do this sort of thing without stepping on toes.

Solidarity.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 10:35 AM on November 15, 2016 [55 favorites]

Kris Kobach's middle initial is W, in case you were wondering just how fuckin' on-the-nose this particular part of the shitshow was gonna turn out to be
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:37 AM on November 15, 2016 [6 favorites]

@samsteinhp
Sens Merkley and Hirona and Sen-elect Van Hollen formally calling for Bannon’s firing
posted by chris24 at 10:37 AM on November 15, 2016 [10 favorites]

I do suspect that there is one unspoken factor that keeps Republicans from opposing Bannon. HE USED TO WORK AT GOLDMAN SACHS. That's got to be worth more Goldman Sachs support than all of Hillary's speeches.
posted by oneswellfoop at 10:40 AM on November 15, 2016

For my Bannon calls today, I'm doing the following, feel free to amend for your own purposes:

Calling my Senators and Rep back; check their website and twitter to see if they've released a statement; if yes, call to thank them; if no, call w/ following script:
---Me: Hi, I called yesterday urging the Senator to publicly denounce prominent white nationalist Steve Bannon. I wanted to confirm that the Senator has not yet issued a statement on Steve Bannon."
---Staff: [That's correct]
---Me: Ok, thanks. Do you know what the Senator's timeline is for publicly denouncing Steve Bannon?
---Staff: [soon or nonresponsive]
---Me: Ok thanks; [if nonresponsive continue:] I'd like to again urge the Senator to make a public statement denouncing the appointment of Steve Bannon a prominent white nationalist.
---Staff: Ok, I'll pass it along
---Me: Thanks, I'll be calling back tomorrow to follow up again.

Paul Ryan:
Me: Hi, I'd like to make a comment to Speaker Ryan about Steve Bannon, is that something you can help me with?
Staff: [yes or transfer]
Me: Great, thanks. My name is [name], I'm a resident of [state]. I am calling to urge Speaker Ryan to publicly denounce Donald Trump's appointment of prominent white nationalist Steve Bannon as his Chief Strategist.
Staff: [ok I'll pass it along]
Me: Great thanks.

I'm also calling de Blasio (I'll be living back in NYC after Jan 1), same basic format of script, but the request will be "I'd like to thank the mayor for pushing back against Donald Trump. I'm concerned about reports that [Trump/prez-elect/whatever title you're comfortable with] plans to reside in Manhattan during a significant portion of his term. I'd like to urge the mayor to strongly and publicly resist this scenario as it will burden the city's resources, restrict movement and free speech, decrease tourism and investment, and send the wrong signal to the world about the values of our city."

I'm not a resident right now, so I don't have an NYC councilmember, but if you do, add your councilmember to this call list. Since a lot of NYC functions are actually controlled at the state level, call Cuomo and your state reps too. The city council's calendar is available here if you want to attend relevant committee meetings.
posted by melissasaurus at 10:41 AM on November 15, 2016 [75 favorites]

I just tried to call Speaker Ryan's office and got voicemail. Should I leave a message or call back?
posted by pxe2000 at 10:41 AM on November 15, 2016

I called my reps today for the first time in my life to emphasize the message about Bannon. (My cynicism about the actual impact of anything one jumped-up monkey can do against the system is, for now outweighed by the sheer weight of the emergency facing us.) I want to keep going, but I'm feeling a little adrift about how to structure the calls. Does anyone have any guidance or like a list of topics to use as a guideline? I just feel like there is so much awful that it's hard to pick out one thing to focus on for a call in a given day.
posted by Scattercat at 10:42 AM on November 15, 2016 [2 favorites]

I have to say that I think the MSM up here is doing a pretty decent job so far. My Dad's social group are pretty much getting the news from only MSM sources like major newspapers and tv. I've always used them as bit of an indicator of what are messages coming through to that demographic and what the narratives are. From what Dad told me today it's pretty bang on to a lot of things being talked about here. And Bannon (for now at least) is known as the white power guy who is now in the office. I'm glad that message is getting through.

The main topic though was this:

Older (white) guy Canadian coffee club report from Dad:

Conversation Summary:
Did you all hear all the things about how the Trumps don't even know what a President does and Obama has to teach him?
" Yeah. Not Good "
babble babble babble

Conclusion:

" Canada, we're so screwed. "
posted by Jalliah at 10:43 AM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

@kylegriffin1
Fire from Sherrod Brown— "Steve Bannon must be removed from his position immediately." [full statement]
posted by chris24 at 10:45 AM on November 15, 2016 [15 favorites]

melissasaurus - such a good script! I'm so bad at this, I didn't really know how to follow up on my less-than-successful calls yesterday. I'll follow your lead and call after lunch.
posted by jazon at 10:46 AM on November 15, 2016 [2 favorites]

Today is Bannon, white supremacy, antisemitism. Short and to the point, cause we're calling people who are taking calls all day and don't have time for/care about nuance. Numbers, not detail, will be passed along to anyone with any decision-making power. We're not making an argument, we're incrementing a counter: one more call added to the "Bannon, white supremacist, antisemite" tally.

Tomorrow it will be something else. We don't know what it is now, but when we see it we'll know it.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 10:46 AM on November 15, 2016 [28 favorites]

(and I am totally stealing melissasaurus's script thank you so much for posting it. I'm crap on the phone unless I'm following a script, cause I tend to talk like I write — and I tend to talk in paragraphs — and it's just totally painful listening to me try to like copyedit my spoken sentences.)
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 10:48 AM on November 15, 2016 [3 favorites]

So, I just thought:
Imagine if Trump actually lives in NYC during his tenure. Imagine him getting booed at wherever he goes. Imagine his fragile little ego imploding in on itself.

My thought is: Imagine how horrible that will make life for New Yorkers. Do you know what it's like there whenever Obama visits? Parts of Manhattan basically shut down. New Yorkers are going to hate Trump even more than they already do if he goes to NYC all the time.
posted by wondermouse at 10:48 AM on November 15, 2016 [2 favorites]

The House GOP gave out red hats today. Yep, time to call. Zip code and short statement.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 10:49 AM on November 15, 2016 [6 favorites]

notyou: Also noted: Mike Rogers, the Trump Transition team's top Natl Security adviser, the person who has been laying plans and cultivating contacts in the outgoing staff for months, left the team today.

With his transition team collapsing a mere week after he won the election, I can't imagine President-Elect Reality Show Host / Failed Casino Owner is really going to get too far into his 100 day plan in 100 days. At least, that's my hope.

(And instead of calling him Donnie and/or Donny, I'll now call him by his various other titles, to accentuate the scope of his skills.)
posted by filthy light thief at 10:49 AM on November 15, 2016 [3 favorites]

@longwall26
Bannon: I'm a racist
Bannon's supporters: He's a racist
Bannon's opponents: He's a racist
Media: Is Steve Bannon a Racist? Critics Disagree
posted by chris24 at 10:50 AM on November 15, 2016 [73 favorites]

I hadn't actually seen inside Trump's NYC penthouse before now, but it's making the news in the UK and it is beyond belief.
posted by Coda Tronca at 10:50 AM on November 15, 2016 [4 favorites]

Mitch McConnell's office number is [phone].
posted by chris24 at 10:51 AM on November 15, 2016

The House GOP gave out red hats today.

I thought this was some kind of code for something and I googled to find out what it was. Good lord. What has happened to reality.
posted by something something at 10:54 AM on November 15, 2016

Was Steve Bannon, Donald Trump’s Attack Dog, Paid Illegally?: Trump campaign CEO Steve Bannon may have received illegal payments from a Trump super PAC backed by deep-pocketed donors.
posted by chris24 at 10:54 AM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

How Paula Jones Paved the Way for Donald Trump to Be Repeatedly Dragged Into Court as President

"In 1994, Jones—who was among a group of Bill Clinton accusers Trump assembled at a press conference before the second presidential debate—sued then-President Clinton for sexual harassment. Ann Coulter, a major supporter of Trump's presidential bid, was reportedly the ghostwriter of Jones' legal complaint. Clinton tried to fend off the suit by asserting presidential immunity, which protects the president from lawsuits over conduct while in office. But Jones argued that her case involved actions that had occurred before Clinton took office. Jones' lawsuit resulted in a 1997 Supreme Court decision in her favor that now ensures that all the civil suits currently pending against Trump—and any that may yet be filed concerning his business or private life—can go forward while he's in office. Because of this ruling, Trump can be forced to testify, produce evidence, submit to depositions, and ultimately pay judgments in cases he loses.

Jones' Supreme Court victory was due in part to the work of George Conway III, a Republican lawyer who is married to Trump's campaign manager, Kellyanne Conway. When Jones' case first became public in May 1994, Conway was a 30-something lawyer at the law firm Wachtell, Lipton, Rosen & Katz and a member of the Federalist Society, a conservative legal group. Conway penned an op-ed in the Los Angeles Times arguing that Clinton was relying on dubious legal arguments. "In a case involving his private conduct, a President should be treated like any private citizen," he wrote. "The rule of law requires no more—and no less."
posted by chris24 at 10:57 AM on November 15, 2016 [35 favorites]

I want to keep going, but I'm feeling a little adrift about how to structure the calls. Does anyone have any guidance or like a list of topics to use as a guideline? I just feel like there is so much awful that it's hard to pick out one thing to focus on for a call in a given day.

Right now, my calls are focused on making sure they are vocally not normalizing Trump. There will be something un-normal to call about probably every day during the transition. You can also call them to thank them for things they do that you like (i.e. speaking up against Trump).

Longer term, or if there's a weird lull for a day or so, see what committees they're on and come up with something on one of those topics to discuss. It can be very simple, like "I believe in man-made climate change and would like the Senator/Congresswoman to support [scientifically-sound measures to combat climate change; H.B. 1234; etc]." Or "I'm very concerned about [access to abortion care], what is the Senator's position on [parental notification]?" Or "I'm concerned about the impact of a Donald Trump presidency on vulnerable populations in my community, does your office have any guidance on what I can do to help or how I can get involved?"
posted by melissasaurus at 10:59 AM on November 15, 2016 [7 favorites]

@longwall26
Bannon: I'm a racist
Bannon's supporters: He's a racist
Bannon's opponents: He's a racist
Media: Is Steve Bannon a Racist? Critics Disagree

This could be part of a Dr. Pepper jingle.
posted by ZeusHumms at 11:00 AM on November 15, 2016 [4 favorites]

wittgenstein: It seems to me Republicans held the government hostage for the last 6 years. AND IT WORKED. Now, suddenly, maybe infrastructure spending isn't socialism, and it will pass.

Is he floating a new infrastructure plan? His old one relied on public-private partnerships, which meant that the private parties would benefit by collecting tolls or fees from system users. (Architecture Magazine, Nov. 10, 2016)

A quick reminder on the problems with tolls: it only makes sense if the company can recoup their costs, and costs aren't carried evenly. So that means the urban areas will benefit from new roads, as long as there are enough people willing to carry the cost. Toll roads have failed, and tolling companies have filed for bankruptcy, when the tolling income doesn't support their for-profit efforts, and in 2015 Texans overwhelmingly voted to significantly increase funding for public, non-tolled roads.

Yeah, stellar plan, President-Elect Serial Sexual Assaulter.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:00 AM on November 15, 2016 [9 favorites]

Worth noting: Flooding with calls now is great. Keeping the flood going is also important. We need to call again next week if Bannon is still there - yes, their phone workers will be tired of it, but it's not like he'll quietly get less racist over time.

A few days of irate phone calls are easy to ignore. Weeks are harder. Months are nearly impossible - especially if people who have things they want the office to do, rather than things they want the office to denounce, can't get through, or get ignored because of the volume of calls.

Unity & common scripts are terrific to start; that lets them know how upset everyone is. After that message is thoroughly conveyed, it's better to mix things up: pick a different focus topic to mention, so they don't all get lumped together into "oh, those people again."

And every time the president elect makes a statement about policy plans, call again to request that your reps oppose it, with a few sentences about why. This is allowed to be personal: "I'm asking you to stand against his plan to reduce the EPA regulations on [thing] because before that was instituted, my home lived in a smog belt; I can breathe freely now because the factories aren't allowed to throw coal dust into the air."

Follow it with something like, "I am taking an interest in politics because I want to vote for the people who'll be keeping my family and community safe and healthy."

For the short version, cut down to, "I'd like My Representative to oppose Plan X because it would adversely affect me; supporting it would be a vote against his/her own constituency."
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 11:02 AM on November 15, 2016 [22 favorites]

And also... this is a t-shirt that was being sold a couple days ago.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 11:09 AM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

What we need is something like Lincoln's 2nd Inaugural Address:

Without my normal malice towards Trump, he's not capable of delivering this kind of speech. Indeed, Trump will likely go down in history as one of the least quotable presidents. There will be no inspirational Trump quotes on posters and coffee mugs. There week be no soaring moments where he unites the nation through rhetoric. He lacks the temperament and the inclination.

One day, he will need to comfort the nation over a tragedy. He will look put off. It will be a perfunctory speech and we'll be lucky if the sentiments run more than Hallmark deep. His apologists will praise his ability to purse his face into a mask of unwilling empathy.

No, no great speeches from Trump. No unity from Trump. He literally just can't.
posted by Joey Michaels at 11:11 AM on November 15, 2016 [9 favorites]

More phone scripts & recommendations for calling your reps. Includes bonus soothing cat video.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 11:12 AM on November 15, 2016 [12 favorites]

I have the same antique clock in my bathroom, that Trump has on his side table, in the penthouse. The very same. The rest of my place is just a regular whatever, with cats. But anyway, that was just strange.
posted by Oyéah at 11:12 AM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

Say what you like about the left, but they wouldn't settle for a commemorative t-shirt that looked as crappy as that.
posted by Grangousier at 11:12 AM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

Emily Ellsworth (via Storify):
I worked for Congress for 6 years, and here's what I learned about how they listen to constituents...
posted by Atom Eyes at 11:15 AM on November 15, 2016 [8 favorites]

For the shirt to be authentic, they would have to be burning a woman at the stake at the fire.
posted by Oyéah at 11:15 AM on November 15, 2016

Are ya'll donating to Foster Campbell's campaign for the Dec. 10th Louisiana runoff election?

It's another chance to flip a Senate seat. Act Blue link here.
posted by bluecore at 11:16 AM on November 15, 2016 [7 favorites]

I hadn't actually seen inside Trump's NYC penthouse before now, but it's making the news in the UK and it is beyond belief.

The penthouse is 30,000-square-feet. It's 30 times bigger than my house.
posted by kirkaracha at 11:17 AM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

The whole 'I can't live in the White House' thing is going to blow up more. It's just such an obvious lack of respect for the seriousness of the office.
posted by Coda Tronca at 11:20 AM on November 15, 2016 [15 favorites]

For all its expense, Trump's penthouse looks like what would happen if you gave my great aunt a few million to do interior design. I kept looking for Hummels or commemorative plates.
posted by pxe2000 at 11:21 AM on November 15, 2016 [13 favorites]

Are ya'll donating to Foster Campbell's campaign for the Dec. 10th Louisiana runoff election?

It's another chance to flip a Senate seat. Act Blue link here.

Was reminded by your post and donated immediately.
posted by zutalors! at 11:21 AM on November 15, 2016 [6 favorites]

Also, Senator Brian Schatz's office couldn't have been nicer and more supportive when I called about Bannon.
posted by Joey Michaels at 11:21 AM on November 15, 2016 [3 favorites]

Patricia Zengerle ‏@ReutersZengerle
Just called a Republican congressional office I deal with often and was told the press relations staff is no longer speaking to reporters.

This is a Reuters reporter who has covered Congress for over 15 years.
posted by melissasaurus at 11:23 AM on November 15, 2016 [29 favorites]

There’s No Such Thing as a Good Trump Voter: People voted for a racist who promised racist outcomes. They don’t deserve your empathy.

"Whether Trump’s election reveals an “inherent malice” in his voters is irrelevant. What is relevant are the practical outcomes of a Trump presidency. Trump campaigned on state repression of disfavored minorities. He gives every sign that he plans to deliver that repression. This will mean disadvantage, immiseration, and violence for real people, people whose “inner pain and fear” were not reckoned worthy of many-thousand-word magazine feature stories. If you voted for Trump, you voted for this, regardless of what you believe about the groups in question. That you have black friends or Latino colleagues, that you think yourself to be tolerant and decent, doesn’t change the fact that you voted for racist policy that may affect, change, or harm their lives. And on that score, your frustration at being labeled a racist doesn’t justify or mitigate the moral weight of your political choice."
posted by chris24 at 11:23 AM on November 15, 2016 [46 favorites]

@burgessev:
.@SenatorBurr is walking around with photos of reporters he won't talk to. I'm on it.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 11:23 AM on November 15, 2016 [2 favorites]

Trump's penthouse looks like what would happen if you gave my great aunt a few million to do interior design

There's a kind of porn feel to it as well. I don't mean metaphoric 'money porn', I mean just porn.
posted by Coda Tronca at 11:24 AM on November 15, 2016

Trump Staff Shake-Up Slows Transition to Near Halt

President-elect Donald J. Trump’s transition operation plunged into disarray on Tuesday with the abrupt resignation of Mike Rogers, who had handled national security matters, the second shake-up in less than a week on a team that has not yet begun to execute the daunting task of taking over the government.

In a statement on Tuesday, Mr. Rogers, a former congressman from Michigan who led the House Intelligence Committee, said he was “proud of the team that we assembled at Trump for America to produce meaningful policy, personnel and agency action guidance on the complex national security challenges facing our great country.” And he said he was “pleased to hand off our work” to a new transition team led by Vice President-elect Mike Pence.

In another sign of disarray, a transition official said on Tuesday that Mr. Trump had removed a second senior defense and foreign policy official from his transition team, Matthew Freedman, who runs a Washington consulting firm that advises foreign governments and companies seeking to do business with the United States government.

Mr. Freedman, who had been in charge of coordinating Mr. Trump’s calls to world leaders after his election, is a former business associate of Paul Manafort, Mr. Trump’s former campaign manager, who once worked on the re-election bid of Ferdinand E. Marcos, the Filipino dictator ousted in the 1980s.

To be clear, Rogers was seen as a "voice of reason" by the intelligence community for his thoughts on how can your privacy be violated if you don't know about it?

It is almost ridiculous to say that we have a power vacuum as a fascist is taking over, but that's precisely what's happening. People are being shuffled on and off the team every day, Ryan is jockeying for his agenda (and the Dems sorting themselves out too), policy is being reversed on a daily basis because there isn't any, and it seems like everyone is leaking to the press to advance whatever agenda they've got. He's a horrible manager and everyone around him is steering the ship in a different direction.
posted by zachlipton at 11:26 AM on November 15, 2016 [15 favorites]

I want to thank everyone who working at doing what they can to fight the Bannon appointment. People in other countries appreciate it cause it matters both inside and outside of the US. I personally can't do much beyond just making sure it's clear to people I come in contact with, who he is and why it matters.

Thank you.
posted by Jalliah at 11:26 AM on November 15, 2016 [17 favorites]

No, no great speeches from Trump.

"The world will little note nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living rather to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us--that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion--that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain, that this nation under God shall have a new birth of freedom, and that government of the people, by the people, for the people shall not perish from the earth." -- Lincoln

"We have nothing to fear but fear itself." --FDR

"Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country."--JFK

"You and I have a rendezvous with destiny. We will preserve for our children this, the last best hope of man on earth, or we will sentence them to take the first step into a thousand years of darkness. If we fail, at least let our children and our children's children say of us we justified our brief moment here. We did all that could be done."-- Reagan

"So if you see somebody getting ready to throw a tomato, knock the crap out of 'em, would you? Seriously. Okay? Just knock the hell — I promise you, I will pay for the legal fees. I promise. I promise."--Trump
posted by Pater Aletheias at 11:27 AM on November 15, 2016 [14 favorites]

Just called a Republican congressional office I deal with often and was told the press relations staff is no longer speaking to reporters.

Can I fund this reporter's campout outside this office?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:27 AM on November 15, 2016 [3 favorites]

Trump's penthouse looks like what would happen if you gave my great aunt a few million to do interior design

It looks, unsurprisingly, like an early-2000s Las Vegas casino. Gold and marble and shiny surfaces, everything piled on top of and next to and all around everything else, all of it a half-baked representation of real wealth, real art, real meaning. The kind of design that only looks impressive if you have a head full of well liquor and squint a lot.
posted by uncleozzy at 11:29 AM on November 15, 2016 [2 favorites]

Robert Reich posted a video with 10 things we can all to do to move forward with a peaceful resistence to the Trump presidency, and as requested, I took notes. Here are the bullet points:

1. Protect fellow citizens from hate.
- We need vigilance and community organization to make sure people who may be harassed are not. This is our first responsibility: to celebrate diversity and to make sure that people feel safe.

2. If you are in a Sanctuary City:
- Work with city official to make sure your city does not turn its back on immigrants.

3. Make sure supreme court justices will respect precedent, including roe v wade. Be ready to fight against the confirmation of bad justices.

4. Build a peaceful resistence network that has:
-Daily bulletins. One that goes into real detail about different federal agencies and how they are threatening rights, not just high level overviews.
-Daily actions. We need to be told what actions we can take daily that have high leverage, whether protests, telephone calls to agencies, congresspeople, etc.
- We need to remember that there is a federal class of nonpartisan employees that may be able to help us with our goals. We need to tap into these people to help us fight.

5. Information about how to linkup with grassroots groups that are local to people.

6. Democratic party must be reinvented.
- It has mostly become a giant fundraising machine rather than a party that works with its members. This must be changed. The democratic party needs to spend energy organizing grassroots instead of just tapping big donors for money.
- A lot of this money is essentially being wasted: it's going to high priced lawyers, analysis, consultants, etc., mostly in DC. We need to divert some of this money to recruit and helps develop great progressive candidates starting NOW for 2018 midterms.
- Democractic party thinks its only job is elections. Needs to become a democratic party that works between elections to mobilize supporters, to tap into its network to help bring about progressive outcomes.

7. If you live in a progressive state/city, push forward on the environment, healthcare, tax policy, getting money out of politics, ending mass incarceration. We need enclaves to develop and maintain the ideals that become official policy.

8. If you are a lawyer, help the mobilization to fight in court against erosion of civil liberties, right to choose, etc.

9. Electoral reform: Push for a national popular vote.
- Work with the National Popular Vote organization.
- We need redistricting reform to prevent gerrymandering.
- Fight voter suppression efforts.

10. REACH OUT - to independents, republicans, trump supporters.
- We need to reach out to people who are outside our bubble and talk to them. Many of them voted for Trump because a) they didn't like Hillary, and/or b) they felt that the system needed radical change.
- Some of these people were very open to Bernie's populist message and we need to find them and bring them into the fold.
- We need to work as best we can to rebuild the fabric of our society.
posted by zug at 11:33 AM on November 15, 2016 [51 favorites]

just tried to call Speaker Ryan's office and got voicemail. Should I leave a message or call back?

Leave voicemail until it fills up - they will have to go through it to clear it out and it will seem even more of a clamor if they have to wade through ten messages (from different people) about the same thing.
posted by corb at 11:33 AM on November 15, 2016 [11 favorites]

This person is offering free wedding photography if you are an LGBTQ person who needs to get married before the inauguration for one reason or another.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:34 AM on November 15, 2016 [7 favorites]

Credit where due: This is finally getting the Bannon story correct

That's the NYT yesterday with "Bannon Holds Racist Views, Members of Both Parties Say" and "Critics lamented what they said was a frightening normalization of the fringe views that Mr. Bannon promoted as chairman of Breitbart News," with a slug underneath about the FBI hate crimes report to put it all in context. The homepage now calls him responsible for a "hard-right nationalist movement."

Every time I wonder whether this is too strong or whether we really know about him, I remember that his website has a "black crime" section.

I also remember his time running the Biosphere 2 as a sign of how terrible he is.
posted by zachlipton at 11:34 AM on November 15, 2016 [8 favorites]

Are ya'll donating to Foster Campbell's campaign for the Dec. 10th Louisiana runoff election?

It's another chance to flip a Senate seat. Act Blue link here.

Was reminded by your post and donated immediately.

these comments got me to donate, too
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:38 AM on November 15, 2016 [3 favorites]

Apropos of nothing: Hillary Clinton just won New Hampshire
posted by Atom Eyes at 11:38 AM on November 15, 2016 [21 favorites]

Facebook Live of Merkley, Hirono, Stabenow, and Van Hollen's call for Bannon to be fired.
posted by melissasaurus at 11:38 AM on November 15, 2016 [3 favorites]

(I personally would prefer "Bannon Holds Racist Views, Members of Both Parties and Neo-Nazis Say")
posted by zachlipton at 11:39 AM on November 15, 2016 [6 favorites]

I'm also not convinced that the media will really talk about that, either.

You're right, once the river has been crossed then it's no big deal. The fact that the president desires to live in a Porno Scarface/Dubai on acid/MTV crib parody rather than the White House just fades into the general insanity of having a Full Porno President.
posted by Coda Tronca at 11:41 AM on November 15, 2016 [3 favorites]

My Congressman is all over Bannon. 120 co-signers to his letter asking for Bannon's removal. I'm going to try to get names.
posted by Ruki at 11:41 AM on November 15, 2016 [11 favorites]

Also, this was just posted on Pantsuit Nation:

My friend's wife campaigned for Obama and for Hillary. She joined a call with him today and he shared a few excerpts:
- Your President feels your pain.
- Surprising losses are worse than the ones you see coming.
- Progress doesn't always follow a straight line.
- I'm giving you a whole week and a half to get over this. But come Thanksgiving, it's time to stop moping and get organizing - something I know a little about.
- I'm constrained in what I can do until I'm a private citizen.
- But come February (maybe a little later after a vacation), Michelle and I will be right there with you.
- In the meantime, stay involved locally.
- I'm still fired up and I'm still ready to go.
posted by zug at 11:42 AM on November 15, 2016 [106 favorites]

Per his website, a full list of co-signers will be released tomorrow.
posted by Ruki at 11:42 AM on November 15, 2016

Congressman Jerry Nadler: This is not unexpected, but that doesn’t make it any less despicable or acceptable. I call on Trump to immediately retract his offer to Bannon and to pledge that no one who shares those anti-Semitic, racist values has any place in his administration. Bannon has bragged about Breitbart News serving as the platform for the alt-right -- a loose alliance of anti-immigrant, anti-Semitic, white nationalist provocateurs. We must not allow him to use the power of the White House as his new platform for spewing hate, racism, and white nationalism.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:43 AM on November 15, 2016 [15 favorites]

There's a kind of porn feel to it as well. I don't mean metaphoric 'money porn', I mean just porn.

This reminds me of the two demographics for Buick in the '80s: grandmas and pimps.
posted by pxe2000 at 11:44 AM on November 15, 2016 [5 favorites]

Jesus Hopping Christ, the transition team has still not bothered to call the Defense Department at all.
posted by Etrigan at 11:50 AM on November 15, 2016 [16 favorites]

There's a kind of porn feel to it as well. I don't mean metaphoric 'money porn', I mean just porn.

Not surprising since both the president-elect and his spouse have been in porn.
posted by kirkaracha at 11:50 AM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

Watching the Merkley press conference: They mentioned that the volume of calls is overwhelming! Keep it up folks!
posted by melissasaurus at 11:51 AM on November 15, 2016 [7 favorites]

Also, this was just posted on Pantsuit Nation:

My friend's wife campaigned for Obama and for Hillary. She joined a call with him today and he shared a few excerpts:
- Your President feels your pain.
- Surprising losses are worse than the ones you see coming.
- Progress doesn't always follow a straight line.
- I'm giving you a whole week and a half to get over this. But come Thanksgiving, it's time to stop moping and get organizing - something I know a little about.
- I'm constrained in what I can do until I'm a private citizen.
- But come February (maybe a little later after a vacation), Michelle and I will be right there with you.
- In the meantime, stay involved locally.
- I'm still fired up and I'm still ready to go.

This has been in the back of my mind ever since the election. Obama is a community organizer, he isn't going to want his legacy completely rolled back, and he's very, very smart. And now we know he has a ridiculous storehouse of institutional knowledge that the soon-to-be administration doesn't have. He can plague them like a poltergeist.
posted by Brainy at 11:52 AM on November 15, 2016 [67 favorites]

zug, you beat me to it. Thank you for posting your notes on Robert Reich's video. For those of you organizing locally, here are my notes about point 5, local grassroots groups:

• Build a peaceful resistance network: Mobilize, organize. The group needs to communicate the following:
• Daily bulletins. What are the latest threats?
• Daily actions. They should be high leverage, e.g.,
• Calls to work with/against Congress (and the President)
• Network within federal agencies; they employ civil servants who don't want to see their work destroyed
• Don't forget to focus on your state government
• Your group needs to link up with other groups around the country

If anyone else is forming a local group, please feel free to get in touch with me.
posted by compartment at 11:52 AM on November 15, 2016 [5 favorites]

Jesus Hopping Christ, the transition team has still not bothered to call the Defense Department at all.

Honestly that's probably better. I'd trust the JCOS to run the country on autopilot for 4 years a lot more than whatever incompetent madman the Trump transition is planning on putting at Defense. No one remind them.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:54 AM on November 15, 2016 [8 favorites]

Is PN still a thing people are joining? I never did get an invitation after I asked a few threads ago.
posted by emelenjr at 11:55 AM on November 15, 2016

And now we know he has a ridiculous storehouse of institutional knowledge that the soon-to-be administration doesn't have. He can plague them like a poltergeist.

I wish he'd run for Senate again in 2018. But he'd have to move to someplace new, Virginia, Maryland, Illinois, even New York all have 2 Dem Senators.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:56 AM on November 15, 2016

Facebook Live of Merkley, Hirono, Stabenow, and Van Hollen's call for Bannon to be fired.

I just started streaming - where's Stabenow?
posted by klarck at 11:56 AM on November 15, 2016

these comments got me to donate, too
posted by prize bull octorok at 2:38 PM on November 15

I was looking at Foster Campbell's page and I was really, really impressed by his website specifically talking about disability rights, including the need to support children with disabilities (which is my legal practice area). I sent him some money, and felt very good about doing it.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 11:58 AM on November 15, 2016 [7 favorites]

So, I just called my congresspeople. I was nervous and I stuttered but I did it!

My congresswoman (Doris Matsui - D) has signed the letter urging Trump to replace Bannon, but it's not out yet because people are still signing. The office is going to email me a copy of it once it comes out publicly.

My senators (Boxer and Feinstein) - Boxer released a statement on twitter but the aide did not know if she would also be signing the letter. I couldn't get through to Feinstein, but will try back.
posted by zug at 11:58 AM on November 15, 2016 [14 favorites]

I just started streaming - where's Stabenow?

She spoke first and then probably had to go to another thing. So proud to see her, my senator, speaking out!
posted by FelliniBlank at 11:59 AM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

> This reminds me of the two demographics for Buick in the '80s: grandmas and pimps.
posted by pxe2000 at 11:44 AM on November 15 [3 favorites +] [!]

well and also anyone who wants an untippable sedan.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 12:01 PM on November 15, 2016 [26 favorites]

Wow, what a difference a day makes. Called my Democrat Senator and used melissasaurus's "follow up" script. Different person answered, and said the Senator was preparing a statement to be released "in the near future". Yay!

Also tried a better "first call" script to my district's Representative (also a Democrat), the person answering the phone said no statement is being considered, but did admit they were receiving a number of calls about the Bannon issue.

So, progress? It was a better experience, will call again!
posted by jazon at 12:02 PM on November 15, 2016 [9 favorites]

US against the world? Trump’s America and the new global order - Francis Fukuyama

I like Fukuyama, actually, if not simply because he's incredibly clear writer. The end of history may be ridiculous, depending on how it is to be interpreted, but it still sets the stage for a interesting and useful discussion, imo. He'd be the greatest civics teacher ever. He does seem to say at least one horrible thing in this article about immigrants an political correctness though.
posted by Golden Eternity at 12:02 PM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

well and also anyone who wants an untippable sedan.

Except in California when you get the full minimum wage + tips.
posted by Talez at 12:02 PM on November 15, 2016

I hadn't actually seen inside Trump's NYC penthouse before now,

and I want to have gay sex on every surface of that glittering monstrosity.
posted by Annika Cicada at 12:03 PM on November 15, 2016 [25 favorites]

Jesus Hopping Christ, the transition team has still not bothered to call the Defense Department at all.

Sweet, war's off!
posted by corb at 12:03 PM on November 15, 2016 [11 favorites]

>Not surprising since both the president-elect and his spouse have been in porn.

Okay, we've now established that I will click ANYTHING.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 12:06 PM on November 15, 2016 [5 favorites]

> I'm also not convinced that the media will really talk about that, either.

There is no mass media anymore. There is no social media anymore. We get our news from our local activist groups and we spread our news through our local activist groups and (for now) through a few good well-moderated web forums (all praise to the mod team).

We cannot count on the mass media or on facebook or twitter to relay useful information. We are each others' eyes and ears now. This isn't a triumphalist statement; this is a really heavy responsibility.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 12:07 PM on November 15, 2016 [17 favorites]

Sweet, war's off!

Trump's not even letting the generals know his plans just in case one of them leaks it to ISIS.
posted by Talez at 12:07 PM on November 15, 2016 [12 favorites]

Called my Democrat Senator

Democratic Senator, please. It's the Democratic Party; using "Democrat" as an adjective is a slur. "My senator's a Democrat" is fine.

"They call themselves the Democratic Party. Let's just call people what they call themselves and stop the Mickey Mouse here." -- Chris Matthews

I was already sensitive to this before the election; now I'm on absolute zero tolerance.
posted by kirkaracha at 12:09 PM on November 15, 2016 [13 favorites]

Donald Trump is going to appear on Alex Jones’ “InfoWars”

WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON!
posted by Talez at 12:09 PM on November 15, 2016 [29 favorites]

I'm sure Trump's Defense Transition Team will show up just as soon as they get to the airport from their daschas. Roads are terrible around Moscow at this time of year.
posted by Devonian at 12:10 PM on November 15, 2016 [7 favorites]

Man, I am so dispirited by the number of people I've seen suddenly being like "Steve who? Bannon what? What is this I'm hearing about a racist?" People really, really do not pay attention.
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:10 PM on November 15, 2016 [14 favorites]

Donald Trump is going to appear on Alex Jones’ “InfoWars”

WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON!

He's made an appearance there before. He's officially our first Tinfoil Hat President. Most exciting possibility opened up by this? Maybe he'll tell us about the Lizard People living underneath the Denver Airport.
posted by dis_integration at 12:12 PM on November 15, 2016 [7 favorites]

Donald Trump set to super-size military, says Rudy Giuliani
posted by Golden Eternity at 12:13 PM on November 15, 2016

Man, I am so dispirited by the number of people I've seen suddenly being like "Steve who? Bannon what? What is this I'm hearing about a racist?" People really, really do not pay attention.

To be fair, most of them haven't been fighting Gamergate's shit for two fucking years and have no idea who Breitbart is.
posted by Talez at 12:13 PM on November 15, 2016 [5 favorites]

@JasonMillerinDC "The PEOTUS has not requested security clearance 4 any family members & no paperwork has been submitted to this effect"
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:14 PM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

Welcome to NeverTrump Grief, Stage 3: GOP skeptics bargain with Trump — and themselves.

(This is what counts for a style section story in the WaPo.)

If establishment Republicans are going through the stages of grief, it appears they’ve reached the bargaining stage. All over town, erstwhile critics — who once described Trump as a betrayer of conservative values and an agent of chaos — are now, at least publicly, grasping for signs that maybe he won’t be so bad after all.

Perhaps, they say, conservatives will finally get some quality judges on the Supreme Court? Maybe Trump will focus more on unraveling Obamacare than on deporting 11 million people living in this country illegally or registering Muslims into a database? Maybe now that he’s president, they say, Trump will finally pivot to acting presidential?

So many tea leaves floating around this week. You can just pick and choose the ones you like.

Temporary friends were just that, temporary.
posted by zachlipton at 12:15 PM on November 15, 2016

WH Press Secretary Alex Jones would almost make up for everything else
posted by theodolite at 12:16 PM on November 15, 2016 [16 favorites]

Republicans have an opportunity to create 20-25 new Republican Congressional Districts through the redistricting process over the next five election cycles, solidifying a Republican House majority.

Redistricting.

*weeps*

(from 2010-2013)
posted by Annika Cicada at 12:16 PM on November 15, 2016 [3 favorites]

'In a case involving his private conduct, a President should be treated like any private citizen,' he wrote. 'The rule of law requires no more—and no less.'

...unless the president is a Republican. I'm sure the Republicans who wholeheartedly embraced this principle than will say it'd be too disruptive and divisive now. Until they pass legislation to shield sitting presidents from civil suits.
posted by kirkaracha at 12:17 PM on November 15, 2016

> I like Fukuyama, actually, if not simply because he's incredibly clear writer. The end of history may be ridiculous, depending on how it is to be interpreted, but it still sets the stage for a interesting and useful discussion, imo. He'd be the greatest civics teacher ever. He does seem to say at least one horrible thing in this article about immigrants an political correctness though.
posted by Golden Eternity at 12:02 PM on November 15 [+] [!]

Fukuyama is an incredibly seductive writer, is how I'd put it. His writing tends to consist of very eloquently worded, finely crafted arguments that all hinge on the assumption of the truth of at least one hidden implicit claim that's totally unsupported, or even directly countered by hard evidence.

Like okay I feel like an egomaniac comparing my own writing to his, because he is a really good writer, but I think I can notice the hidden-claim sleight of hand that he pulls better than most people can, because I'm myself very very good at that trick — like, I have to always remind myself to consciously go over things that I write in order to make sure that I'm not playing that game, because it's very easy when playing it to trick yourself into believing that you're not hiding parts of your argument.

(n.b.: I don't have cites, because it's been years since I read him. I just remember noticing him pulling that trick somewhat more explicitly than usual in his book on posthumanism, and then noticing a more subtle version of it in The Origin of Political Order. I'm mainly posting this in the hopes that someone else will come along and say "OH GOD THAT THING HE DOES YES IT DRIVES ME UP THE WALL TOO")
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 12:19 PM on November 15, 2016 [6 favorites]

@jacobkornbluh: inbox: Steve Bannon to attend @ZOA_National's annual gala in NY on Sunday.

The stong support for Trump/Bannon from the Israeli right-wing does not bode well for any chances of his dismissal.

Breitbart News planning lawsuit against 'major media company'

posted by Golden Eternity at 12:19 PM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

Donald Trump is going to appear on Alex Jones’ “InfoWars”

WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON!

Maybe he thinks it's like the Alt-Right's Between Two Ferns?
posted by filthy light thief at 12:20 PM on November 15, 2016

WH Press Secretary Alex Jones would almost make up for everything else

Maybe there will be a weekly Goblin Talk press briefing.
posted by dis_integration at 12:21 PM on November 15, 2016 [3 favorites]

So, WTF happens the next school shooting that Alex Jones claims is fake? Does Trump go along with that?
posted by acidic at 12:22 PM on November 15, 2016 [3 favorites]

kirkaracha - geez, okay, sorry. I was just trying to feel good about a success after a shaky start.
posted by jazon at 12:23 PM on November 15, 2016 [2 favorites]

So, WTF happens the next school shooting that Alex Jones claims is fake? Does Trump go along with that?

"I told you so".
posted by Talez at 12:24 PM on November 15, 2016

Breitbart News planning lawsuit against 'major media company'

... how good are Mother Jones' lawyers?
posted by suelac at 12:24 PM on November 15, 2016 [5 favorites]

Jones will fall in line on the broad strokes while the Dilettante-in-Chief is courting him. "It didn't really happen" will change to "This is because of the Democrats!"
posted by Etrigan at 12:25 PM on November 15, 2016

Breitbart News planning lawsuit against 'major media company'

If said 'major media company' doesn't waver and calls what I'm fairly certain is a bluff, this could be good news. And if it does balk down then at least we'll have a clearer picture of where 'major media' stands in all this. Might as well figure that out sooner rather then later.
posted by Jalliah at 12:27 PM on November 15, 2016 [3 favorites]

Costa: At Trump Tower, the Sessions bloc is rising. Influential in transition. Impt to remember this part of his agenda.

Sessions is against ALL immigration, not just illegal immigration.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:27 PM on November 15, 2016 [2 favorites]

The stong support for Trump/Bannon from the Israeli right-wing does not bode well for any chances of his dismissal.

The Likudniks are going to get a rude awakening when Trump gives the implicit go ahead for Putin to fight "ISIS" (Syrian civilians) by dumping brand new Russian weapons into Syria, and Hezbollah just helps themselves to the buffet on offer.
posted by PenDevil at 12:28 PM on November 15, 2016 [6 favorites]

The stong support for Trump/Bannon from the Israeli right-wing does not bode well for any chances of his dismissal.

Could someone offer a brief explanation about why they would support him and Trump. I don't know enough to get what the politics are. Or at least get why they would be fine with Nazi like shyte.
posted by Jalliah at 12:29 PM on November 15, 2016

The Likudniks are going to get a rude awakening when Trump gives the implicit go ahead for Putin to fight "ISIS" (Syrian civilians) by dumping brand new Russian weapons into Syria, and Hezbollah just helps themselves to the buffet on offer.

Oh shit I forgot completely about that.

Shift your 401ks to weapons companies people. They're going to make squillions over the next four years.
posted by Talez at 12:30 PM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

Could someone offer a brief explanation about why they would support him and Trump.

Because if there's anyone that Bannon hates more than Jews it's Muslims.
posted by Talez at 12:30 PM on November 15, 2016

The stong support for Trump/Bannon from the Israeli right-wing does not bode well for any chances of his dismissal.

Could someone offer a brief explanation about why they would support him and Trump.

They like Palestinians even less than they like Jews.
posted by Etrigan at 12:30 PM on November 15, 2016

Could someone offer a brief explanation about why they would support him and Trump.I don't know enough to get what the politics are.

Any kind of Israel/Palestine negotiations are not happening on Trumps watch.
posted by PenDevil at 12:31 PM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

Could someone offer a brief explanation about why they would support him and Trump. I don't know enough to get what the politics are. Or at least get why they would be fine with Nazi like shyte.

They want the US to attack/nuke Iran for them.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:31 PM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

Something I haven't really seen people talk about much. This is the first president in the "terrorism era" who has very visible symbols of himself spread internationally.
posted by drezdn at 12:31 PM on November 15, 2016 [13 favorites]

The stong support for Trump/Bannon from the Israeli right-wing does not bode well for any chances of his dismissal.

It's not so strong. I just called the ZOA's office. The person answering the phones there said that everyone is in meetings today but to call back tomorrow morning. They are receiving lots of phone calls and did not sound happy with the decision to back him. I am pretty sure it's a handful of big donors and not some groundswell of support.
posted by Mchelly at 12:32 PM on November 15, 2016 [3 favorites]

Any kind of Israel/Palestine negotiations are not happening on Trumps watch.

Within 24 hours of the election being called there were stories about the Israeli right wing saying the two-state solution is dead and calling for the US embassy to move from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. Which just fills me with joy since I have friends working at the embassy those assholes want to turn into a giant middle finger pointed at the Palestinians.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 12:33 PM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

You know when your racist friend says "I'm an equal opportunity racist. I hate everyone!"?

Bannon is one of those people where that might be even vaguely true. He just wants to fuck with everyone and watch the world burn.
posted by Talez at 12:33 PM on November 15, 2016 [6 favorites]

Okay thanks all. Awesome possum. Just more 'feel good' knowledge to add to my brain vault.
posted by Jalliah at 12:33 PM on November 15, 2016

Because although Bannon reportedly holds anti-Semitic beliefs and has created a safe-zone for racists and anti-Semites and used it to win the election, he is a "Zionist" and strongly "supports Israel" and Bibi's leadership on the occupation. Obama is extremely unpopular in Israel, and Sheldon Adelson financed Trump's campaign.
posted by Golden Eternity at 12:34 PM on November 15, 2016 [2 favorites]

Like when Breitbart was going on about CUNY, it wasn't because Bannon considers jews a grateful ally. It was because they could hound and piss off a bastion of liberal thought and a Democratic governor simultaneously. And there's nothing they could do about it.

If CUNY had tried to suppress the anti-semitic protests Breitbart would have been back on the other side bitching about another liberal institution restricting free speech.
posted by Talez at 12:35 PM on November 15, 2016 [4 favorites]

Donald Trump is going to appear on Alex Jones’ “InfoWars”

Man, if you took a time machine back to early-2000s Austin and told me that one of our local public access personalities would end up having the ear of the president, I would have put money on the kooky anti-abortion guy who used to sing Beatles covers while wearing a toilet seat around his neck.
posted by Atom Eyes at 12:35 PM on November 15, 2016 [23 favorites]

I called Dianne Feinstein, Paul Ryan, and Nancy Pelosi in that order and left messages for all three. For some reason I didn't think to contact Barbara Boxer and I was too wigged out at that point to try Mitch McConnell's office, so maybe I will make some more calls later.

I feel very blessed to be from California, where I have always basically trusted my elected representatives to look out for my interests; I've never contacted any of them. This election, in fact, marked my first vote for a senator that felt like a real vote, rather than just checking the box for the women who have served my state since I was a small child. (I was of course happy to check the box for them, but it always felt like a formality.) This will be the case no longer. Right when all this stuff about calling your representatives re: Bannon started to come out, I went down my usual train of thought, which is "Oh, well, I live in California, they're already on the right side of this..." But then I thought, But wait? Dianne Feinstein...? And I checked, and she has released no statement. So I called. And from there it wasn't such a big deal to call Paul Ryan, or to call Nancy Pelosi to thank her and tell her she has my support. From now on my voice will be heard.

And about that: I guess, yeah, I'm kind of a coastal elite. The average Trump voter makes more money than me even before adjusting for COL, but I work in the media, which gives me some small bit of access and influence that I don't want to discount. (I don't think arugula is relevant, but I have eaten some in the past week, if anyone's keeping track. I got it at Grocery Outlet.) But... I don't know. A lot of people are telling me in a lot of different ways right now that my voice and opinions aren't important. Women, of course, especially young ones, aren't taken seriously, and those of us who felt really heard and spoken to by Hillary's campaign are being told to stand down and center white men once again. And more and more people seem emboldened to tell Japanese Americans to shut up about the internment camps. Nonetheless, and despite all the times I've gotten into arguments about racism vs the white working class in these very threads, I am doing quite a bit of soul-searching about my attitude and beliefs and participation. I've resolved for the most part to move forward with any action I can take rather than wasting time fighting about this stuff, because I think it helps no one, but I am trying my best to listen to everyone's hurt without compromising my own dignity.

I've donated $100 to Planned Parenthood and $15 to Foster Campbell. (BTW, for anyone who was unaware, he is a self-proclaimed "pro-life Democrat." That's okay. This is an emergency.) I can get a donation match of up to $100 from my company for an eligible donation, so I'm researching where best to put that, and will talk to my coworkers about doing the same.

One more thing I'm planning to do, which might not be a big deal, but means a lot to me personally: I'm emailing Mayor Ed Lee to thank him for guaranteeing that San Francisco will be a sanctuary city. He said immediately after the election that being a sanctuary city is "the DNA of San Francisco," and I just felt so, so proud of my beautiful city and of a mayor who I have not always agreed with. If Trump actually makes good on his threats (a big if considering his incompetence, I think), we stand to lose a lot of federal funding, and Mayor Lee has already held meetings to address that. I'm afraid low-income and homeless people are going to suffer a lot, so I am keeping up my monthly donation to the food bank and my volunteering with a local homeless organization.

Action. Action. Action.
posted by sunset in snow country at 12:38 PM on November 15, 2016 [25 favorites]

@TheMattWilstein
The best case and worst case scenarios for President Trump, according to @BernieSanders: http://thebea.st/2fVOUdq [video]


‏@ddale8 Retweeted Matt Wilstein
Very Sanders: asked about "worst case" scenario under Trump, he goes to campaign finance, not Muslims/deportations:
posted by chris24 at 12:39 PM on November 15, 2016 [24 favorites]

Man, if you took a time machine back to early-2000s Austin

I would have chosen those two dudes on Austin cable access who went on and on about how Humans were genetically engineered from aliens and apes in order for us to farm gold for their hyperdrive space machines, and how Niribu was opening the vortex that would bring the aliens back soon and boy would they be pissed when they found out what we had done with all the gold we were supposed to be stockpiling for their spacecrafts.
posted by Annika Cicada at 12:39 PM on November 15, 2016 [4 favorites]

I'm wondering if Trump et al had really had any clue that the outcry against Bannon would be big. I'm going to go with Trump's razor and say no likely not.

I expect the Trump figured there would people not happy if he got elected and there would be something, and then the American people would all fall into line like 'Good Americans'

At least this is a thought that gives me some solace, that they're running around right from the start and having to put out fire after fire.
posted by Jalliah at 12:40 PM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

Breitbart: EXCLUSIVE – Alan Dershowitz Defends Steve Bannon: ‘Not Legitimate To Call Somebody An Anti-Semite Because You Disagree With Their Policies’
posted by Golden Eternity at 12:41 PM on November 15, 2016

Well, wait, yes, if the person is anti-Semitic, then it is totally legitimate to call somebody anti-Semitic.
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:44 PM on November 15, 2016 [15 favorites]

Obama is extremely unpopular in Israel...

Do you have a link for this? (Not challenging your statement; I would just like more info.)
posted by Atom Eyes at 12:45 PM on November 15, 2016

I apologize if this has already been mentioned, but I have been reading these threads with tremendous interest, myself swinging back and forth from sanity to insanity in what I feel is a continual state of fog, a hallucination that never ceases to lift.

Is there any possibility that some Republicans will "cross the floor," so to speak, in an effort to quell the damage a Trump presidency can do? I don't mean this to be a naive suggestion and I am very aware of the Republican majority over the last 6 years etc etc etc, and the number of Repubs that said little or nothing while he was running. But this seems, and is, markedly different.

Wikipedia does provide a list of Party switching in the United States, so it is certainly not without precedent.
posted by standardasparagus at 12:45 PM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

why are we linking to Brietbart?
posted by futz at 12:45 PM on November 15, 2016 [24 favorites]

Something I haven't really seen people talk about much. This is the first president in the "terrorism era" who has very visible symbols of himself spread internationally.

Eww, I'll have to add "spread" to the list of words that shouldn't be used in conjunction with Trump.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 12:45 PM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

Q&A: Chris Arnade on his year embedded with Trump supporters

This guy's doing giod work but tends to make a lot of unsupported generalizations and sweeping claims.
posted by Golden Eternity at 12:46 PM on November 15, 2016 [3 favorites]

I guess for Dershowitz being pro-torture trumps sentimental concerns like blood purity and whatever.
posted by philip-random at 12:47 PM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

Alan Dershowitz back in the news, eh? I knew the success of that O.J. mini-series was going to dredge up some of those 1990s bottom-feeders eventually!
posted by Atom Eyes at 12:49 PM on November 15, 2016 [3 favorites]

why are we linking to Brietbart?

It's troubling but it's shaping up the Briebart may be used as a primary delivery point for Trump's propaganda. So I guess the question is do you wait for other news site to report on Briebart or link to the source.

I dunno. It's a tough one.
posted by Jalliah at 12:49 PM on November 15, 2016 [7 favorites]

T.D. Strange: Sessions is against ALL immigration, not just illegal immigration.

A refresher: Who is Responsible for U.S. immigration policy? (In short: not the President alone, so if any Republicans want to actually support their Latinx and broader immigrant populations, this won't go too far.)


Talez: Shift your 401ks to weapons companies people. They're going to make squillions over the next four years.

And private prison companies.
posted by filthy light thief at 12:50 PM on November 15, 2016

It's troubling but it's shaping up the Briebart may be used as a primary delivery point for Trump's propaganda. So I guess the question is do you wait for other news site to report on Briebart or link to the source.

I dunno. It's a tough one.

If you don't want to give Briebart page hits and Google juice via MeFi links, use Archive.is or Archive.org to mirror the pages (and get a snapshot of what was said at that moment, in case their story changes (NewsDiffs.org, which doesn't cover Briebart).
posted by filthy light thief at 12:53 PM on November 15, 2016 [10 favorites]

If you're going to do that, you'll probably have better results if you spell it Breitbart.

Briebart sounds tastier though.
posted by Too-Ticky at 12:55 PM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

Do you have a link for this? (Not challenging your statement; I would just like more info.)

It's actually not as bad as I thought, googling it. I thought I remembered a poll that had like 20% or lower favorability. But it seems his favorability was quite high and then took a big dive in 2015.

How bad do Israelis think Obama is? As bad as a US President can get
posted by Golden Eternity at 12:55 PM on November 15, 2016

How bad do Israelis think Obama is? As bad as a US President can get

One wonders if this is an "organic" result.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 12:56 PM on November 15, 2016

(not the polls, the sentiment)
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 12:58 PM on November 15, 2016

If you're going to do that, you'll probably have better results if you spell it Breitbart.

Briebart sounds tastier though.

Ha. I can't see to shake this. At the time I found out about it I kept reading it a Briebart and it's stuck in my brain that way. I think it may always be Breeeeebart to me.
posted by Jalliah at 12:59 PM on November 15, 2016

there. I fixed it for our times
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:00 PM on November 15, 2016 [11 favorites]

TPM: Rand Paul Says He Would Oppose Giuliani, Bolton For Secretary Of State
posted by chris24 at 1:01 PM on November 15, 2016 [7 favorites]

Surprisingly more malodorous than Camembart.
posted by XMLicious at 1:01 PM on November 15, 2016 [2 favorites]

Senator-elect Chris Van Hollen and his BIG SIGN getting right to the point.
posted by everybody had matching towels at 1:02 PM on November 15, 2016 [33 favorites]

You know - not that it helps us any right now, but in the wake of the Trump victory, I'm thinking of all the "small" things that led up to this timeline, and might help next time, if anyone's left alive here.

I'm remembering seeing Alex Jones and Vox Day in Trump campaign ads, and now we are seeing their "payoff" in legitimization. And I'm thinking of, and reframing, the earlier skirmishes, including the Hugo Awards. I'm wondering if those things were actually the canary in the coal mine that this deep anger existed and could be used to tear things apart. We saw tribal identification affect tiny elections, but somehow thought that it was contained, that it wouldn't affect "Real" elections. I'm wondering if there was anything we could have done if we'd known then what we know now.

And I'm wondering if we, collectively, learned the wrong lesson from Hitler and the Holocaust. We all learned, pretty clearly, "Don't let Hitler round up the (X Outgroup Here)". We're ready to fight that. We all know we're ready to fight that. But what about "Hey, when there's a horrible buffoon, don't fucking feed him, don't let media outlets feed him, because you'll create a monster and there will be no stopping it?"
posted by corb at 1:02 PM on November 15, 2016 [30 favorites]

Senate floor session is just getting started. Live video here. Not sure whether anyone (Reid?) will be making a statement.
posted by melissasaurus at 1:03 PM on November 15, 2016 [4 favorites]

TPM: Rand Paul Says He Would Oppose Giuliani, Bolton For Secretary Of State

Never thought I'd be rooting for Rand Paul. Let's hope he doesn't fold like Cruz did.
posted by dis_integration at 1:06 PM on November 15, 2016 [6 favorites]

Senator-elect Chris Van Hollen and his BIG SIGN getting right to the point.

Chris Van Hollen, who I'm thinking of as my future senator for when we get priced out of the District, is excellent.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 1:07 PM on November 15, 2016 [3 favorites]

Tune into the Senate feed if you can. It's getting good.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:07 PM on November 15, 2016

Reid is already speaking
posted by Brainy at 1:07 PM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

Another thanks to melissasaurus for the script. I called both my senators here in CO today, and Gardner's folks were helpful and respectful on the phone, and Bennet's folks were supportive, said they'd been swamped by calls, that they'd try to get me a personal response but that "you will likely see it in the news before we can have someone get back to you."
posted by deludingmyself at 1:08 PM on November 15, 2016 [5 favorites]

Never thought I'd be rooting for Rand Paul.

Paul, Sasse, Flake, McCain and Collins are key to stopping these unhinged nominees. They don't have to go along. We may need to worry about Dem defections from Tester, Manchin, and Heitkamp, who are up in 2018 and probably hopeless for reelection in Trumpland states.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:10 PM on November 15, 2016 [6 favorites]

Never thought I'd be rooting for Rand Paul

We're going to learn a lot about who's an honorable opponent acting in more or less good faith and who's just an opportunistic shitbird like Ryan and McConnell.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 1:11 PM on November 15, 2016 [29 favorites]

Residents of 140, 160 and 180 Riverside Boulevard got an email on Tuesday from Equity Residential, the landlord at the Trump Place buildings, saying the company would change the official name of the buildings so it can remain “neutral.”
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:12 PM on November 15, 2016 [9 favorites]

Thoughts on Why Hillary Clinton Lost from Molly Ball at The Atlantic:

Explanation No. 2: The “Obama coalition.” While Clinton’s campaign was focused on television advertising aimed at suburban swing voters, there were ample warning signs that African American and Millennial voters weren’t inspired by her candidacy. Polls and focus groups showed young people disliked both candidates; in interviews, black voters were unenthused. But Clinton’s campaign assumed they would show up for her simply because they were afraid of Trump.

Instead, many of them refused to fall in line. Eight percent of African American voters under 30 chose a third-party candidate, as did 5 percent of Latinos under 30, according to an analysis of the election results by the Democratic pollster Cornell Belcher. These “protest votes,” he argued, were enough to seal Clinton’s fate, even though this year’s electorate was just as diverse as 2012’s, and Trump did not do any better than Romney among young, minority voters.

Clinton, Belcher said, agreed with these voters on the issues they cared about, such as criminal justice and police brutality, but failed to reach them effectively. [...]

“These younger black and brown voters who supported Obama were more his voters than Dem voters,” Belcher told me. “They had a stronger allegiance to him than a party, though clearly Dem in issue orientation.”

Chickens come home to roost. This further underscores that Democrats can't afford to take the votes of PoC for granted, and that white liberals can't simply assume we're onboard with every candidate or program. We might not be voting for Republicans, but that doesn't mean we're automatically enthusiastic about what you're offering.

The liberal narrative this election is not too different from 2004, presenting it as good vs. evil, progression vs. regression, multiculturalism vs. white supremacy and arch-patriarchy. And they still weren't able to secure the amount of enthusiasm that Obama brought, never mind achieve more of it.

Regardless of the rightness or wrongness of the Clinton campaign's message, it's pretty clear that they failed in how they messaged it.
posted by Apocryphon at 1:12 PM on November 15, 2016 [5 favorites]

I keep misreading this thread title as "The Nation That Soils Itself."

Still works.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 1:15 PM on November 15, 2016 [16 favorites]

Reid statement notes [part 1]:
-Trump lost popular vote by 2 million
-hate crimes spike across country
-Dems want to work w him when he can, I understand that impulse, because Democrats want to get things done
-we've tried for decades to get investment in infrastructure
-Republicans obstructed, but if they want to get on board with our proposals, great
-Democrats will be pragmatic
-we have a responsibility to be the voice of millions of americans who are afraid
-prevent Trump's bullying from being normalized
-sexual assault is now a laughing matter
-it is not normal for the KKK to celebrate prez's election
-in 65 days Trump will be inaugurated and will have most powerful microphone in world for 4 years
-a majority of americans oppose donald trump
-Trump will take office having lost vote by 2 million
-increase in hateful acts
-my doctor is a Pakistani-american of muslim faith; day after election he was harassed while having dinner in las vegas
-staffer has a daughter in middle school, like a daughter to me, boy yelled at latina student that he was glad she would be deported, student yelled derogatory term at african american student, lists a few more examples
-has compilation of hundreds of hate crime incidents, entered it into congressional record
posted by melissasaurus at 1:15 PM on November 15, 2016 [73 favorites]

Residents of 140, 160 and 180 Riverside Boulevard got an email on Tuesday from Equity Residential, the landlord at the Trump Place buildings, saying the company would change the official name of the buildings so it can remain “neutral.”

Ten bucks says Equity Residential just invited the IRS and SEC to take permanent residence up their corporate and personal asses.
posted by Etrigan at 1:16 PM on November 15, 2016 [2 favorites]

WaPo Giuliani explains why Trump can’t do a real blind trust: It ‘would basically put his children out of work’

then he offered a remarkable defense. "He would basically put his children out of work if — and they'd have to go start a whole new business, and that would set up the whole — set up new problems," Giuliani said on "State of the Union."

Giuliani added: "It's kind of unrealistic to say you're going to take the business away from the three people who are running it and give it to some independent person. And remember, they can't work in the government because of the government rule against nepotism. So you would be putting them out of work."

Which isn't even true. Ivanka has her line of jewelry and clothing, Jerad has the newspaper. So really it boils down to the two sons of a billionaire who wouldn't have a job. Boo Hoo. I'm sure they could think of something to occupy themselves with. Eric does have his own charity-- maybe he could put some more time into that.

I called my Senators, Burr and Tillis, and Paul Ryan and you best believe I turned on the accent and charm-- I even choked up a bit. I didn't have a script I just politely told them that I was disturbed to have a NeoNazi in the White House because it sends a bad message to the the rest of Americans. "Please convey to the Senator that I am very disturbed. I feel this awful man sends a message that hate and racism will be the core values of the new President."
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:17 PM on November 15, 2016 [23 favorites]

then he offered a remarkable defense. "He would basically put his children out of work"

he should refer this to the Secretary Of Not Our Fucking Problem Because We Didn't Run For President
posted by mightygodking at 1:18 PM on November 15, 2016 [71 favorites]

Giuliani: Won't someone think of the Trump children?!??!?!?
posted by ian1977 at 1:18 PM on November 15, 2016 [6 favorites]

Thanks filthy light thief, I'll use mirror sites from now on if linking to hate sites. Sorry about that. I just wanted to show how Breitbart is being mainstreamed with the help of Dershowitz and ZOA National.

Donald Trump’s New Chief Steve Bannon Called Republican Leaders ‘C**ts’

Bannon ran Breitbart at the time, and the two schemed about how to get activists to “turn on the hate” as part of a plan to “burn this bitch down.”

I don't understand what Bannon hates so much and what he wants to burn down, but his seeming intent to destroy state institutions is absolutely frightening.
posted by Golden Eternity at 1:18 PM on November 15, 2016 [7 favorites]

I keep misreading this thread title as "The Nation That Soils Itself."

And it wasn't until you posted this that I realized this wasn't the title.
posted by Jalliah at 1:18 PM on November 15, 2016 [8 favorites]

More Reid:
-how do we teach our kids that sexual assault is important when we elect someone who says it's locker room talk
-7th grader letter: im scared being a woman of color, i shouldn't feel unsafe, the president has said rude, disrespectful things about women and POC, i cannot feel safe w Pres Trump
-if we ignore their voices, she will think we dont care if she's afraid
-main responsibility is with trump - he has to act immediately to heal "talk is cheap and tweets are cheaper"
-bannon is champion of white supremacy, put up as top advisor [describes bannon and his fans]
-reads bannon's statements about jews into the record
-must rescind appointment of bannon
-we cannot take trump's efforts seriously if bannon is steps away from oval office
-Trump: don't hide behind your twitter account
posted by melissasaurus at 1:20 PM on November 15, 2016 [69 favorites]

Marsha Blackburn, congresswoman from Tennessee and a member of Trump's transition team, when asked on NPR just now about how Trump has said that people give money to politicians to get something in return, and presented with a list of her own corporate donors: It applies differently to different people.
posted by XMLicious at 1:20 PM on November 15, 2016 [6 favorites]

Harry Reid to Donald Trump: "Instead of hiding behind your Twitter account" show that bigotry and bullying "have no place in America."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:21 PM on November 15, 2016 [7 favorites]

Y'all told me to tune in to the senate livestream because it was getting good and now I'm listening to my dumbass senator Cornyn whine about healing. I want my money back.
posted by DynamiteToast at 1:21 PM on November 15, 2016 [10 favorites]

IADTDP doesn't roll off the tongue like IOKIYAR, does it.
posted by Etrigan at 1:21 PM on November 15, 2016

So you would be putting them out of work.

Aww, rich white dudes might have to find a job that Daddy didn't hand to them. I have all the sads. Really. My sads, they are epic here.

Oops, they slipped and fell off the table. Quick, somebody get me a magnifying glass so I can find my sads.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 1:21 PM on November 15, 2016 [10 favorites]

John Cornyn (R, TX), up after Reid:

-Calls Reid a sore loser, on a "tirade"
-Accuses Reid of sowing division
-Reid is being uncivil and undignified
posted by rp at 1:22 PM on November 15, 2016

Thanks melissasaurus for the transcribing.
posted by corb at 1:22 PM on November 15, 2016 [3 favorites]

Just watching the livestream on the Senate Floor and ohai Cornyn I have a point of order: HOW DO YOU EVEN SLEEP AT NIGHT
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:23 PM on November 15, 2016 [3 favorites]

John Cornyn, who endorsed Trump, is accusing Harry Reid of contributing the coarsening of discourse, and I have again confirmed that I cannot strike people mute with my mind through the computer.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 1:23 PM on November 15, 2016 [34 favorites]

I am just sitting here with my mouth agape, watching Jon Cornyn's mealy mouthed description of Harry Reid "coarsening the senate" by describing quotes from Bannon.

Yet again I wonder how can these people sleep at night.
posted by gaspode at 1:24 PM on November 15, 2016 [6 favorites]

megajinx
posted by gaspode at 1:24 PM on November 15, 2016

Paul, Sasse, Flake, McCain and Collins are key to stopping these unhinged nominees.

I'm not counting too much on Collins. Anecdotal evidence says that her office has been pretty chilly to local Maine consists calling the office about Bannon. I'm not optimistic that she'll do well in this. Half our state went red for basically the first time ever, and she'll be fighting the forces of her own party in Washington AND the Maine Gov AND a huge number of the rural voters that are her main constits. Also, she has four more years in her term.

Don't count on Susan, is what I'm saying.
posted by anastasiav at 1:24 PM on November 15, 2016 [2 favorites]

For those who are wondering if Pantsuit Nation is still a thing, it is, but it is getting hostile to women of color.
posted by zutalors! at 1:25 PM on November 15, 2016 [9 favorites]

I'm pretty sure if Conryn had given this speech in 1859 Harry Reid would've challenged him to a duel.
posted by dis_integration at 1:25 PM on November 15, 2016 [6 favorites]

Paul, Sasse, Flake, McCain and Collins are key to stopping these unhinged nominees.

I know I've said this before, but: don't give up on Utah Senator Mike Lee! He was the senator who ran the petitions to hold the roll call vote/release the delegates to vote for a new nominee past the bodyguards the Secretary was using to keep us away. He also spearheaded the walkout of his state's delegates on the floor of the convention, asked Trump to take him off his Supreme Court nomination list, and is white-hot furious at Trump deep down in his bones. If he sees a way to defend the Republic and spike Trump, I think he'll take it.
posted by corb at 1:27 PM on November 15, 2016 [16 favorites]

Donald Trump is going to appear on Alex Jones’ “InfoWars”

Unless I'm misreading (which could be the case; I'm tired), the article does not say that, at all. It notes that Jones claimed in a video that Trump called to thank him and his viewers.
posted by FelliniBlank at 1:27 PM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

Watching Cornyn was making me want to throw a brick. I calmed myself down with thoughts of 'well, all I'm watching is you go down in the history books as a collaborator so if this is where you stand then keep going buddy'
posted by Jalliah at 1:27 PM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

For those who are wondering if Pantsuit Nation is still a thing, it is, but it is getting hostile to women of color.

3.5 million people would be impossible to moderate. I'm wondering when it will fall apart, and hoping it can do as much good as possible until then.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 1:28 PM on November 15, 2016

given all the events of the past week, i fully expect to die of an anger-caused brain aneurysm at some point in the next 4 years. possibly before conryn finishes speaking
posted by entropicamericana at 1:28 PM on November 15, 2016 [10 favorites]

For those who are wondering if Pantsuit Nation is still a thing, it is, but it is getting hostile to women of color.

*sigh* Based on safety pins I presume?
posted by Jalliah at 1:29 PM on November 15, 2016

New Gallop poll just came out. It covers Nov 9 to 13. Surprise! 5 days after the election the economy magically got better.

WASHINGTON, D.C. -- Americans' confidence in the U.S. economy increased sharply after the election, moving from a slightly negative evaluation (-10) to a slightly positive one (+3). Gallup's U.S. Economic Confidence Index had been consistently negative throughout the year leading up to the election.[...]

The increase in economic confidence mostly stems from Republicans' more positive views after Republican Donald Trump won the election. Gallup has previously noted that Americans view the economy through a political lens. Republicans have had a dismal view of the economy -- especially of its future direction -- during Democratic President Barack Obama's two terms.

After Trump won last week's election, Republicans and Republican-leaning independents now have a much more optimistic view of the U.S. economy's outlook than they did before the election. Just 16% of Republicans said the economy was getting better in the week before the election, while 81% said it was getting worse. Since the election, 49% say it is getting better and 44% worse.

So nothing has actually changed-- Obama is still President-- but their feelings have changed.

This Washington Post article from April explains why : Voter anger is mostly about party, not social class

More important to the story is partisanship. We’ve known for some time that people’s identification with a party affects how they perceive the objective world — even how physically attractive they find other people. The economy is no exception. Except in periods where economic conditions are unambiguous, such as at the height of the Great Recession, there are big — and growing — differences in how Republicans and Democrats view the economy, depending on which party controls the White House.

Feelings not Facts in the Brave New World.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:30 PM on November 15, 2016 [11 favorites]

For those who are wondering if Pantsuit Nation is still a thing, it is, but it is getting hostile to women of color.

*sigh* Based on safety pins I presume?

Yes, that plus the general discussion of "can white feminists not take over this space? Can other perspectives be heard?"
posted by zutalors! at 1:30 PM on November 15, 2016 [18 favorites]

From 2:09 PM (Central):

Katy Tur - Trump/Pence have gotten their first Presidential Daily Briefing sources with knowledge tell @KellyO

Glenn Thrush - Obama described his first intel briefing as a life-changing event that scared the hell out of him, FYI
posted by DynamiteToast at 1:31 PM on November 15, 2016 [10 favorites]

I took the main PN off my feed. I'm just in the local one now. It's way more manageable for moderation and just in general more manageable.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:31 PM on November 15, 2016 [4 favorites]

Planned Parenthood Has Already Received 20,000 Donations From ‘Mike Pence’
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:32 PM on November 15, 2016 [38 favorites]

don't give up on Utah Senator Mike Lee!

Thank you corb, for again sharing info that I think most of us would not have known about.

Question for you: When I call the offices of Flake and McCain again, how receptive do you think they'll be complaints about the foul language Bannon has used to describe Republican leadership? What about for other Republican senators/representatives?
posted by compartment at 1:32 PM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

Unless I'm misreading (which could be the case; I'm tired), the article does not say that, at all. It notes that Jones claimed in a video that Trump called to thank him and his viewers.

I noted that too, so -- God help me -- I watched the video, and Jones really does claim that Trump said he would be coming on. Who knows if it's true...but who know if ANY of it is true. I agree the headline was overly credulous, if not misleading.
posted by neroli at 1:32 PM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

Unless I'm misreading (which could be the case; I'm tired), the article does not say that, at all. It notes that Jones claimed in a video that Trump called to thank him and his viewers.

In the video, Jones claims that Trump said he'd be on the show "in a few weeks" to thank Infowars viewers. Of course, Jones is utterly disconnected from reality and Trump is a serial liar, so it's impossible to know who is telling the truth, if anyone, about anything here.
posted by zachlipton at 1:33 PM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

Katy Tur - Trump/Pence have gotten their first Presidential Daily Briefing sources with knowledge tell @KellyO

well at least we'll know if aliens are real because is there is no way in hell trump would be able to resist tweeting about it if it were true
posted by entropicamericana at 1:33 PM on November 15, 2016 [7 favorites]

For those who are wondering if Pantsuit Nation is still a thing, it is, but it is getting hostile to women of color.

And thank goodness there's been quite a bit of pushback on this. Not nearly enough, not nearly soon enough, but pushback nonetheless. It better continue.
posted by cooker girl at 1:34 PM on November 15, 2016 [9 favorites]

Thread: 1. The deterioration in discourse (and increase in accusations) between people who broadly share disgust at Trump is very very depressing
posted by zachlipton at 1:35 PM on November 15, 2016 [11 favorites]

For those who are wondering if Pantsuit Nation is still a thing, it is, but it is getting hostile to women of color.

I've been thinking over the past few days, one of the metrics for the success of the upcoming Million Women March will be how inclusive and supportive it is of POC.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 1:36 PM on November 15, 2016 [15 favorites]

It's interesting, Pantsuit Nation is very nice and welcoming if a WOC is frightened or sad about Trump and needs the community's loving arms. But any criticism of how the dominant group expresses compassion (ie safety pins) gets aggressive pushback and a lot of "well, I quit!"

Like, the fact that you feel like you can quit - that's a problem of privilege.
posted by zutalors! at 1:40 PM on November 15, 2016 [35 favorites]

Does anyone have a good source for Black Lives Matter tshirts? Preferably one where the funds go to supporting the cause and/or prominent folks in the movement and not some random Amazon/Etsy seller.
posted by melissasaurus at 1:42 PM on November 15, 2016 [5 favorites]

Josh Marshall has a good reminder, Here's How Bad It Is, on how the purge of Christie allies from the transition team goes back to the Kushner-Christie family fued:

Then note this shakeup appears to be driven by his grudge against Chris Christie who prosecuted Kushner's father when Christie was US Attorney in New Jersey in 2004/2005.

Kushner's father Charles Kushner was a New York area real estate mogul who got into a lurid fight with his brother-in-law that built on campaign finance violations, witness tampering and prostitutes.

From the Times ...
"The intrafamily acrimony was such that Mr. Kushner retaliated against his brother-in-law, who was cooperating with federal authorities, by hiring a prostitute to seduce him. He then arranged to have a secretly recorded videotape of the encounter sent to his sister, the man's wife."

The case against Kushner involved campaign finance violations, witness tampering and tax evasion. Kushner was sentenced to two years in prison and was released a year later. Probably any son might hold a grudge against Christie. But this grudge seems to be driving the country's national security policy. That is not good.

posted by zachlipton at 1:48 PM on November 15, 2016 [6 favorites]

Melissasaurus: the one I can think of is the Deray-designed shirt, but that might not be appropriate if you're not black. :-/
posted by pxe2000 at 1:49 PM on November 15, 2016

No melissasaurus. I looked extensively a few days ago. All the ones that seemed to fund the cause were sold out.
posted by tofu_crouton at 1:49 PM on November 15, 2016

More general info about security clearances: Interim clearances are often given out before the full 4-ish month process completes; this is entirely at the discretion of the agency and cannot be appealed. They're allowed to say, "nope, not granting the quick route; wait for the full review."

Interim clearance can take just a few days - after completion of the SF86 form: Questionnaire for National Security Positions. This form (downloadable on the page, not a direct link) is 127 pages long. The first ~2.5 pages are what you'd normally expect in a form: name, address, contact info, date of birth, ssn, and a section of what job/department/agency this is for. Then it starts asking for details.

Citizenship info, with all sorts of questions for people who weren't born here as citizens. (People who were born elsewhere as citizens get a swarm of questions about where.) Where you have lived for the last 10 years. School for same. Jobs for same, including unemployed & self-employed stretches. Military history.

And then it starts getting personal: References, 3 people who've known you for 7 years who aren't mentioned anywhere else in the form. Marital details. Relatives - all of them at the parent/sibling level, including in-laws. Foreign contacts "bound by affection, influence, common interests, and/or obligation." Foreign activities. Psychological & emotional health....

It just goes on, and on, and ON.

Nevermind whether any of the president-elect's family would qualify; someone has to fill out all those forms - and mistakes mean delays or denials.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 1:52 PM on November 15, 2016 [7 favorites]

George W. Bush Warns Against ‘Anger’ Driving Policy

Even W. is signalling this is going to be bad.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:58 PM on November 15, 2016 [13 favorites]

melissasaurus: try SURJ
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:59 PM on November 15, 2016 [2 favorites]

That's what I get for not watching this thread, I JUST called Cornyn's office re: Bannon totally unaware that he was going to pout about it today.

(fuck yeah Reid, GET EM)

I could not get through to a person at his DC number, but did at his Dallas number. Also left message with staffers for Cruz (ugh, but his staff was polite) and my Rep, Hutchinson. Her staffer asked "Were you told by anyone to call about this?" and I said "No, a lot of us are just VERY CONCERNED about WHITE SUPREMACISTS advising the President!"
posted by emjaybee at 2:01 PM on November 15, 2016 [31 favorites]

Does anyone have a good source for Black Lives Matter tshirts? Preferably one where the funds go to supporting the cause and/or prominent folks in the movement and not some random Amazon/Etsy seller.

I think BLCK Store (BLCK Foundation) is/was the official(?) merchandising partner or wing of the movement?
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:03 PM on November 15, 2016 [2 favorites]

So during the Terror there was (okay, for certain values of "was" — elements of this story are apocryphal), during the Terror there was a minor functionary, Charles de La Bussière, whose job involved stamping and registering paperwork related to the workings of Robespierre's Committee of Public Safety. The French Revolution was very big on paperwork, see; the old regime had operated by a system where you got access to the law by knowing a guy who knew a guy who knew the king, and who could petition for you, and the Revolution wanted to fix the problems with that system by formalizing everything, and by writing everything down.

So anyway, although La Bussière had no formal power to do anything about the orders of the Committee of Public Safety — his job was just to stamp and register documents, then pass them on to the next person to stamp and register, and so on and so on — he realized when he started seeing execution orders come across his desk that he could stop executions by destroying the physical documents.

As the story goes, the most straightforward and least detectable way for him to dispose of execution orders was to eat them. So he did, and he thereby saved a number of lives.

Papereating is probably not the most effective way to gum up the works these days, but being very persnickety indeed about correct filing is probably the next best thing, especially given how sloppy the President-Elect's crew is about details.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 2:08 PM on November 15, 2016 [53 favorites]

Ugh, I like the safety pin thing but if it makes some people feel excluded I am rethinking being a part of that (I'm white).
posted by agregoli at 2:08 PM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

We should be skeptical of empty slacktivism anyway.
posted by Apocryphon at 2:10 PM on November 15, 2016 [5 favorites]

FWIW, I skipped the safety pin thing...but I replaced my Clinton Kaine pin with a Mockingjay. If you're into YA lit, that could be a way to go.
posted by pxe2000 at 2:10 PM on November 15, 2016 [3 favorites]

I think the pushback against the safety pin thing is that the idea is to "protect" POC and WOC rather than feel like you're standing with them.

I'm a less targeted POC so feel a little in the middle there, but I get the feeling that WOC don't feel like people are with them if white people are like, "well, this is how we're doing it, and we'll just quit if you don't like it"
posted by zutalors! at 2:11 PM on November 15, 2016 [9 favorites]

We just elected the comments section President on the strength of his memes; I have more faith in empty slacktivism than ever.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 2:12 PM on November 15, 2016 [18 favorites]

Soooo....what happens if Trump just tries to hand-wave his kids into the WH? I mean...is someone going to physically block them if they try to enter a situation room or whatever? To the point of laying hands on them?
posted by emjaybee at 2:14 PM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

Question for you: When I call the offices of Flake and McCain again, how receptive do you think they'll be complaints about the foul language Bannon has used to describe Republican leadership? What about for other Republican senators/representatives?

For Flake and McCain, I think you'd want to go with "blah blah polluting the honorable office of the presidency blah blah nations commander in chief blah blah" along with a "This poisons the Republican brand, our party will lose all the new allies we have gained blah blah."

For others, you could toss in "What an insult to our loyal ally Israel", which is all helpfully tied up in code.
posted by corb at 2:14 PM on November 15, 2016 [14 favorites]

Papereating is probably not the most effective way to gum up the works these days, but being very persnickety indeed about correct filing is probably the next best thing, especially given how sloppy the President-Elect's crew is about details.

This is basically uncivil obedience, and I would love to see the Washington bureaucratic machine deploy it against this administration.
posted by jackbishop at 2:18 PM on November 15, 2016 [17 favorites]

John Cornyn, who endorsed Trump, is accusing Harry Reid of contributing the coarsening of discourse

What is this weird thing where people don't have a problem with someone saying something offensive but they do when someone quotes them?
posted by kirkaracha at 2:18 PM on November 15, 2016 [21 favorites]

My parents (Boomers of retirement age) are deeply excited about the safety pin thing, so I've until avoided alerting them to any potential pushback so as to limit the confusion/fragility thing. A few friends of color have made some comments about the issues around the safety pin, and I have appreciated the insights. One friend recently met a little old white lady who was just freaking stoked to wear the pin and step in when needed, and said "now I'm of two minds," which made me smile.

I'm not wearing the pin because I feel like being an ally means taking action when needed, as opposed to wearing some signifier, which feels like (apologies if this is unfair to anyone) performative allyship looking for a pat on the head.
posted by Existential Dread at 2:19 PM on November 15, 2016 [2 favorites]

Someone make sure to bring a can of paint to the prison camp so we can paint a line down the middle and put the safety pin people on one side and the non safety pin people on the other.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 2:19 PM on November 15, 2016 [25 favorites]

Josh Marshall has a good reminder, Here's How Bad It Is, on how the purge of Christie allies from the transition team goes back to the Kushner-Christie family fued:

I've heard this before when Christie was out of favor and it never quite makes sense to me because it's not like this is news. This happened 10 years ago, well before Trump brought Christie into his inner circle and while Ivanka was dating Jared. This would have been well-known to all parties involved, but just now Trump finally decides that it's a problem? It's possible he just enjoys humiliating Christie, but I have to think there's another proximate cause somewhere than simply the Charles Kushner thing, because he keeps bringing him back, and this time he even briefly had his hands on actual power.
posted by Copronymus at 2:20 PM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

Mod note: Folks, we have a separate safety pin thread; if you want to get more deeply into the safety pin pro/con arguments, please take it over there.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 2:21 PM on November 15, 2016 [2 favorites]

What is this weird thing where people don't have a problem with someone saying something offensive but they do when someone quotes them?
Being a "Good German"? (My father had several cousins who were 'Good Germans'.)
posted by oneswellfoop at 2:22 PM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

I called my Rep! Greg Walden in Oregon. The staff member who answered the phone was very nice - didn't have knowledge yet as to what Walden would do but promised to pass on the message.
posted by hilaryjade at 2:30 PM on November 15, 2016 [3 favorites]

Why misogyny won: America’s president-elect is an alleged sexual predator. This theory of sexism explains how it came to this — and why even many women voted for Trump.

To understand how sexism played into Trump’s victory, first you have to understand that there are two basic types of sexism — “hostile” and “benevolent” — and how they work together.

If you have some “hostile” sexist attitudes, you might mistrust women’s motives and see gender relations as a zero-sum battle between male and female dominance. You might agree with statements like, “Many women get a kick out of teasing men by seeming sexually available and then refusing male advances,” or “Most women interpret innocent remarks or acts as being sexist.”

If you have some “benevolent” sexist attitudes, you might endorse positive — but still patronizing — stereotypes of women. You might agree with statements like, “Women should be cherished and protected by men,” or “Women, compared to men, tend to have a superior moral sensibility.”
......

Trump expresses both hostile and benevolent attitudes toward women all the time. When he likes a woman, he praises her in a patronizing way (usually focusing on her physical beauty). When he doesn’t, he viciously insults her.

Benevolent sexism is the carrot, Glick explained, and hostile sexism is the stick. If you’re a “good” woman who meets expected gender norms — who has warm feminine charms, who maintains strict beauty standards, whose ambitions are focused on home and hearth — you will be rewarded with affection, protection, and praise. But step outside those norms, and you risk being labeled as one of the “bad” girls who are abused and scorned only because they deserve it.

It’s a tidy little cycle. Benevolent sexism is supposed to protect women from hostile sexism, and hostile sexism is supposed to keep women in line with the ideals of benevolent sexism.
......

Male dominance actually requires a pretty delicate balance, Glick said. If men want to maintain the control over women they’ve enjoyed for thousands of years, and continue their species, and satisfy their desires for heterosexual love and companionship, they can’t just use brute force. They need women to actually like them and not resent their dominance.

And so a compromise emerged — or at least a “protection racket,” as Glick calls it, like when the Mafioso tells the businessman he’d hate to see his nice shop burn down, so why don’t they make a deal.

The basic agreement is that as long as women cater to men’s needs, men will protect and cherish women in return. If women have few good options for independent success, this is a pretty good deal — which explains why in more overtly sexist societies where women have fewer opportunities, cross-national studies show that women endorse benevolent sexism at even higher rates than men do.

posted by chris24 at 2:35 PM on November 15, 2016 [47 favorites]

“When we were doing Allegiance on Broadway and Donald Trump made that sweeping statement about banning all Muslims, it demonstrated to me that he really didn’t know American history,” Takei says. “And particularly this dark chapter of our history when racism took over the country, combined with war hysteria, and put innocent people, American citizens, in prison camps. Allegiance is clearly a story about racism and how destructive it is.”
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:37 PM on November 15, 2016 [4 favorites]

Mod note: Couple comments deleted. Safety pin discussion is over here.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 2:39 PM on November 15, 2016 [3 favorites]

I really wonder what Trump will do if Bannon is successfully forced out. Trump is clearly over his head. He needs people to do the actual work of governing for him, and the people he's picked so far are a racist mastermind, and a collection of incompetent has beens and hangers on. Bannon is the brains of the Trump campaign, and it turned around after he came on board, clearly he and Trump want to make the administration in his and the alt-right's image. For that reason I don't think he will walk it back. He needs Bannon or someone like him to be his brain, probably much more than even Bush needed Rove.
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:42 PM on November 15, 2016 [4 favorites]

He has Priebus, who is a minor demon from the fifth level of hell but a fairly competent administrator and knowledgeable about the DC Landscape.
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:44 PM on November 15, 2016 [5 favorites]

He also needs the turnkey state-run media outlet.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 2:44 PM on November 15, 2016 [3 favorites]

bankruptcy is a 'derogatory' on an SF-86. (nelson laugh)
posted by j_curiouser at 2:47 PM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

bankruptcy is a 'derogatory' on an SF-86. (nelson laugh)

AFAIK, none of the kids have declared bankruptcy. Hrm, though, I wonder if Dad's six bankruptcies could make them ineligible even though he automatically gets top clearance?
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 2:49 PM on November 15, 2016

yeah, i don't think they have either...it's just comic how these aristocrats are going to have to assert so many things on an SF-86 that are likely demonstrably false. Maybe in a hearing with compelled testimony from associates. I mean just the "have you used any illegal drugs in the last ten years?" is probably an outright fail. has anyone 'partied' with ivanka in the last ten tears? wanna be on TMZ?
posted by j_curiouser at 2:56 PM on November 15, 2016 [2 favorites]

Regardless of the rightness or wrongness of the Clinton campaign's message, it's pretty clear that they failed in how they messaged it

We can't ignore what Donald was doing for nearly a year and a half: He basically kept spamming himself into all media channels until they were completely jammed with news about him. I think the assumption that not as many people were following the primaries is wrong. Maybe people didn't sit down and actually research and compare issues, but they certainly knew Donald from entertainment media, since everyone made fun of his campaign.

But, maybe just like in real life where we learn to tune out advertisements and spam, Donald's constant media saturation (especially with so much negative news) caused some folks to just tune out all political or election related news, eventually just deciding not to vote.

Going forward, I don't know how to counter that. I also don't know if it was a fluke or if it will be done again, because three years down the line in time for the 2020 campaign, Donald will have had three years of job experience as a sitting president and he may be smart enough not to rely on the same strategy.
posted by FJT at 2:56 PM on November 15, 2016 [7 favorites]

I called and emailed Paul Ryan (I also emailed my California Sens and Reps). I got a stock response on the email and got a voicemail when I called, which only allows you to leave a short message, maybe less than a minute?
posted by TwoWordReview at 2:57 PM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

The stong support for Trump/Bannon from the Israeli right-wing does not bode well for any chances of his dismissal.

The Likudniks are going to get a rude awakening [...]

Israeli politics is pretty murky, but to the extent that there's any Israeli support for Trump it's anti-Likud, or at least anti-Netanyahu.

Two of the named Knesset members in this NYT article that welcomed Trump's election are Aryeh Deri (head of Shas, and a scoundrel, but I repeat myself), Naftali Bennett, head of HaBayit HaYehudi (ditto). There's also Yoav Kish from Likud, which surprises me because in previous reports he was presented as (and described himself as) relatively liberal.

Aryeh Deri isn't really relevant to this, because he's not right-wing as such; he's crazy. He welcomed Trump's election because he thought it would break the “non-Orthodox Jewish hold on the US government” and thereby bring the Messiah. Yes, apparently he was serious. As for the support from Bennett and Kish, let me just give a bit of background.

Israel's parliament, the Knesset, is elected on a party list system from a single nation-wide electorate. Because there are so many parties, the prime minister always needs support from a coalition of parties. Because the electorate is nation-wide, those parties are competing with each other and are frequently trying to bring the prime minister down even while they're in the coalition. In fact, since politicians within a single party are elected in order of the party list, they're competing against other politicians within the same party. It's a sort of continuous fratricide.

I think that's what's happening here: the pro-annexation caucus (which apparently includes Bennett and Kish, but not Netanyahu) just lost a major battle in Israel's Supreme Court and they're trying to reverse that legislatively. By saying that Trump's election means that Israel should have a free hand in the West Bank they hope to make their legislative proposal look more reasonable, and make Netanyahu look unreasonable for opposing it, as he already has.

Yes, this is all pretty disgusting, but it has nothing to with support for Trump per se. Realistically, there's nothing much Israel can do to affect US politics, and these Trump-welcoming politicians are only interested insofar as it is relevant to their own very local battles. Poll support for Clinton in Israel before the election was 42-24% against Trump; I don't think that will change in Trump's favour as post-election news develops.
posted by Joe in Australia at 2:57 PM on November 15, 2016 [13 favorites]

It took a little bit, but Sen. Feinstein put out a statement opposing Bannon. It starts: "I became mayor of San Francisco when my predecessor was assassinated—I know how fear can tear apart a community. Today we’re again seeing the spread of fear, this time caused by a series of racist and xenophobic attacks."
posted by zachlipton at 3:03 PM on November 15, 2016 [21 favorites]

I feel like, at this point, Trump might find it a relief if Clinton just handed over her transition team....
posted by steady-state strawberry at 3:04 PM on November 15, 2016 [3 favorites]

This Is How Steve Bannon Sees The Entire World - The soon-to-be White House chief strategist laid out a global vision in a rare 2014 talk

[World War I] triggered a century of barbaric — unparalleled in mankind’s history — virtually 180 to 200 million people were killed in the 20th century, and I believe that, you know, hundreds of years from now when they look back, we’re children of that: We’re children of that barbarity. This will be looked at almost as a new Dark Age.

But the thing that got us out of it, the organizing principle that met this, was not just the heroism of our people — whether it was French resistance fighters, whether it was the Polish resistance fighters, or it’s the young men from Kansas City or the Midwest who stormed the beaches of Normandy, commandos in England that fought with the Royal Air Force, that fought this great war, really the Judeo-Christian West versus atheists, right? The underlying principle is an enlightened form of capitalism, that capitalism really gave us the wherewithal.

And we’re at the end stages of a very brutal and bloody conflict, of which if the people in this room, the people in the church, do not bind together and really form what I feel is an aspect of the church militant, to really be able to not just stand with our beliefs, but to fight for our beliefs against this new barbarity that’s starting, that will completely eradicate everything that we’ve been bequeathed over the last 2,000, 2,500 years.

Now, what I mean by that specifically: I think that you’re seeing three kinds of converging tendencies: One is a form of capitalism that is taken away from the underlying spiritual and moral foundations of Christianity and, really, Judeo-Christian belief.
...
But there’s a strand of capitalism today — two strands of it, that are very disturbing.

One is state-sponsored capitalism. And that’s the capitalism you see in China and Russia. I believe it’s what Holy Father [Pope Francis] has seen for most of his life in places like Argentina...

The second form of capitalism that I feel is almost as disturbing, is what I call the Ayn Rand or the Objectivist School of libertarian capitalism. And, look, I’m a big believer in a lot of libertarianism. I have many many friends that’s a very big part of the conservative movement — whether it’s the UKIP movement in England, it’s many of the underpinnings of the populist movement in Europe, and particularly in the United States.

However, that form of capitalism is quite different when you really look at it to what I call the “enlightened capitalism” of the Judeo-Christian West.
...
The other tendency is an immense secularization of the West. And I know we’ve talked about secularization for a long time, but if you look at younger people, especially millennials under 30, the overwhelming drive of popular culture is to absolutely secularize this rising iteration.

Now that call converges with something we have to face, and it’s a very unpleasant topic, but we are in an outright war against jihadist Islamic fascism.
...
So I think the discussion of, should we put a cap on wealth creation and distribution? It’s something that should be at the heart of every Christian that is a capitalist — “What is the purpose of whatever I’m doing with this wealth? What is the purpose of what I’m doing with the ability that God has given us, that divine providence has given us to actually be a creator of jobs and a creator of wealth?”

I think it really behooves all of us to really take a hard look and make sure that we are reinvesting that back into positive things. But also to make sure that we understand that we’re at the very beginning stages of a global conflict, and if we do not bind together as partners with others in other countries that this conflict is only going to metastasize
...
One thing I want to make sure of, if you look at the leaders of capitalism at that time, when capitalism was I believe at its highest flower and spreading its benefits to most of mankind, almost all of those capitalists were strong believers in the Judeo-Christian West. They were either active participants in the Jewish faith, they were active participants in the Christians' faith, and they took their beliefs, and the underpinnings of their beliefs was manifested in the work they did. And I think that’s incredibly important and something that would really become unmoored. I can see this on Wall Street today — I can see this with the securitization of everything is that, everything is looked at as a securitization opportunity. People are looked at as commodities. I don’t believe that our forefathers had that same belief.
...
The central thing that binds that all together is a center-right populist movement of really the middle class, the working men and women in the world who are just tired of being dictated to by what we call the party of Davos. A group of kind of — we're not conspiracy-theory guys, but there's certainly — and I could see this when I worked at Goldman Sachs — there are people in New York that feel closer to people in London and in Berlin than they do to people in Kansas and in Colorado, and they have more of this elite mentality that they're going to dictate to everybody how the world's going to be run.

I will tell you that the working men and women of Europe and Asia and the United States and Latin America don't believe that. They believe they know what's best for how they will comport their lives. They think they know best about how to raise their families and how to educate their families. So I think you're seeing a global reaction to centralized government, whether that government is in Beijing or that government is in Washington, DC, or that government is in Brussels. So we are the platform for the voice of that.

And there's more....
posted by Golden Eternity at 3:04 PM on November 15, 2016 [7 favorites]

corb: For Flake and McCain, I think you'd want to go with "blah blah polluting the honorable office of the presidency blah blah nations commander in chief blah blah" along with a "This poisons the Republican brand, our party will lose all the new allies we have gained blah blah."

These are my senators. In my calls, I've emphasized that both men have always presented themselves as being of strong principles, and Bannon--as a white supremacist, anti-Semite, and misogynist--goes against the deepest values of this country, and of the people of Arizona whom they represent. I said I feel very strongly that they should make a public statement denouncing this appointment as unacceptable to them and to their constituents.

So far, I've been told neither is planning to make any comment. Which is why they'll both be getting calls again tomorrow. I will keep going until the sound of my voice is familiar to every staffer, and makes them feel that twisting dread in their guts. I WILL BE THE ONE WHO KNOCKS.
/Heisenberg
posted by Superplin at 3:08 PM on November 15, 2016 [21 favorites]

Welp...

@intlspectator
BREAKING: Assad says Trump is a 'natural ally' if he fights terrorism
posted by chris24 at 3:08 PM on November 15, 2016 [3 favorites]

Meanwhile:

@SpeakerRyan: Good news → The House just passed a bipartisan bill to sanction the Assad regime in #Syria.
posted by Golden Eternity at 3:11 PM on November 15, 2016 [2 favorites]

which only allows you to leave a short message, maybe less than a minute?

"This is a fucking embarrassment. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it. Stop dicking around and fix it."

I may need to work on my speech writing skills.
posted by ghost phoneme at 3:12 PM on November 15, 2016 [36 favorites]

Whether his children would need to disclose (privately to the government) financial information about Trump properties, though, as a pre-condition of getting clearance, is what I'm wondering.

Almost certainly. That form is extensive and it wants to know everything about your personal and financial situation for the last 7 years, and maybe more. They wouldn't, of course, need to hand over his taxes... but the Foundation's full financial history might be required, as they help run it. Also, every foreign business deal that they're privy to or have their names on. And if they own interest in, or get to make decisions for, the properties... yeah, that gets included.

The purpose of the form is to help the gov't decide if (1) you are blackmailable, (2) you are likely to be cavalier with sensitive information, esp to people outside of the country, or (3) you are bribable.

The whole family is full of red flags for all of those. Unless the president is allowed to override process entirely and declare who does & doesn't get clearance, there's no way they can--and even if a president can do that, there's the issue that they're no gov't employees and only those can get clearance.

I have no idea if FLOTUS comes with clearance rights, but I do know it's actually a formally-recognized position that doesn't have to be done by the president's wife.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 3:15 PM on November 15, 2016 [4 favorites]

I mean, but who is going to enforce these rules about his kids/forms/conflict of interest/etc., ya'll? Laws only work when they're enforced.
posted by emjaybee at 3:19 PM on November 15, 2016 [4 favorites]

Re: Bannon's views: that sure is some word salad sprinkled with random racism and conservative buzzwords.
posted by Archelaus at 3:22 PM on November 15, 2016 [3 favorites]

The 'White Working Class' Can Kiss My Brown Ass
posted by adamvasco at 3:27 PM on November 15, 2016 [14 favorites]

When the CIA subtweets the election.

@CIA
CIA #Museum Artifact of the Week: Plate from Hitler’s Chancellery
#OSS
#WWII
#HISTINT [image]
posted by chris24 at 3:32 PM on November 15, 2016 [7 favorites]

Shorter Bannon: we have always been at war with Islam.
posted by monospace at 3:33 PM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

The funny part of this is all the Greens and leftists who said Clinton was the warmonger. The unfunny part is we're going to war with Iran.

@youbsanctioned
CNN reports Cotton for SecDef
posted by chris24 at 3:36 PM on November 15, 2016 [3 favorites]

I read that whole Bannon speech in Heath Ledger's Joker voice.
posted by valkane at 3:36 PM on November 15, 2016 [2 favorites]

laws only work when they're enforced
yes, but...IMVVVHO, the security guys are ultimately pragmatists who do not wish for armegeddon. i think we'll see a lot of pushback at the implementation tier and little tolerance for outright irresponsibility.
posted by j_curiouser at 3:37 PM on November 15, 2016

The person I feel worst for in all of this is telhund, who might not yet know how the election turned out.
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:38 PM on November 15, 2016 [52 favorites]

@thehill: Rubio says he has "no reaction" to Trump appointing Stephen Bannon

Warm up your dialing fingers, folks: 202-224-3041
posted by melissasaurus at 3:38 PM on November 15, 2016 [12 favorites]

I want to go back to Tehhund's timeline.
posted by zachlipton at 3:39 PM on November 15, 2016 [41 favorites]

Rubio says he has "no reaction" to Trump appointing Stephen Bannon

Other things Rubio has no reaction to:

+ Shellfish
+ Dust
+ Rubella
+ Choices that would make normal humans blush with humiliation
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:42 PM on November 15, 2016 [14 favorites]

Here's the head of the NSA describing WikiLeaks as "A conscious effort by a nation-state to attempt to achieve a specific effect."
posted by zachlipton at 3:42 PM on November 15, 2016 [5 favorites]

Re Cotton news.
I need words worse then deplorable. My vocabulary right now is all swear words.
posted by Jalliah at 3:42 PM on November 15, 2016 [2 favorites]

I mean, but who is going to enforce these rules about his kids/forms/conflict of interest/etc., ya'll? Laws only work when they're enforced.

I'm trying to scrounge up info about this, but a quick look says violating an oath of office - which could easily mean knowingly appointing staff in violation of legal restrictions - is a federal crime. (Appointing a relative is against the law, but I'm blurry on penalties for that.)

Besides, that gives an easy pitch to disrupt his popularity: the "law and order" candidate wants to break the law his first week in office.

While I've no doubt a careful enough shell game with US Attorneys and various departments could keep a prosecution from happening, he's not that careful. He doesn't have plans. He has no idea which titles are in charge of which departments and which subdepartments are appointed by the opposition.

I think he could pretty much appoint himself a huge swarm of sycophants and also clear the way for his kids to be there all the time... but he can't do it quickly and smoothly, and the infighting is probably going to keep it from working at all.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 3:42 PM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

So Bannon's solution to income inequality is to encourage people to be more Judeo-Christian and invest in good things. His excuse for supporting Putin now is war on Islam. His solution to the Wall Street crisis is to encourage banks to go back to Judeo-Christian banking. I wonder how that looks in real life. Empowering churches and religious organizations somehow? An Unamerican Activities committee as Gingrich suggested? Massive tax breaks for investing in good things and extra taxes for band capitalism?

After reading that, I do get the feeling that his Islamaphobia will far-outweigh his anti-Semitism and anti-Hispanic xenophobia.

Things were good before WWI, then went to hell, and were saved by capitalism. He wants strong sovereign, nationalist neighbors.

I wonder if you might see Bannon reverse the tables on Putin and support the farther-right in Russia against him: Girkin, Malofeev, Dugin, etc.
posted by Golden Eternity at 3:47 PM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

Re: Cotton as SecDef. Tweet was deleted. CNN said he's on the shortlist, not that he's been selected.
posted by monospace at 3:48 PM on November 15, 2016 [4 favorites]

Russia is buds with Iran, right? So if the Trump administration goes to war with Iran won't that piss off Russia? And then we'll get the Moscow visit honeypot sex tape release
posted by prize bull octorok at 3:48 PM on November 15, 2016 [2 favorites]

I think Tehhund might know the election results already. The comment in the first post-election thread indicates so, anyway.
posted by Silverstone at 3:48 PM on November 15, 2016 [3 favorites]

Ana Navarro wins Best Bannon Reaction (last Thursday): "Do you have a match somewhere so that I could set my hair on fire?
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:48 PM on November 15, 2016 [8 favorites]

While I've no doubt a careful enough shell game with US Attorneys and various departments could keep a prosecution from happening, he's not that careful. He doesn't have plans. He has no idea which titles are in charge of which departments and which subdepartments are appointed by the opposition.

I agree with your assessment of his lack of plans. But, at least from talking to a few people I know who work as AUSAs, they're worried Congress will just cut the budget leading to massive layoffs. There literally might not be people to do the prosecuting.
posted by melissasaurus at 3:49 PM on November 15, 2016

Russia and Iran have never actually gotten along that well. They are allies of convenience against the US and the Gulf States (which are serious problem for Russia at the moment) more than anything, I think.
posted by Golden Eternity at 3:49 PM on November 15, 2016

After reading that, I do get the feeling that his Islamaphobia will far-outweigh his anti-Semitism and anti-Hispanic xenophobia.

Whiteness expands and contracts as needed to support itself.
posted by melissasaurus at 3:52 PM on November 15, 2016 [10 favorites]

I need words worse then deplorable. My vocabulary right now is all swear words.

Grrl Power comic has you covered. The hero, Sidney Scoville, is a fangirl who runs a comic shop and has a hot temper and beyond foul mouth when angered; feel free to grab her verbiage for appropriate use in your daily life.

• smurf asphyxiating garlic sniffing
• jubilex effluvia
• dingleberry laden wookie

posted by ErisLordFreedom at 3:54 PM on November 15, 2016 [4 favorites]

For reasons not completely clear to me, I have FB friends who are radical left activists, now trumpists, and wholly putinists. I'm not unfriending them because I want to follow their reasoning.
I hope they are wrong, but going by their logic, Europe is sold. So is Syria, but I knew that already.

And yeah, I've mentioned this before, but these guys definitely use class as a cover for their racism.
posted by mumimor at 3:54 PM on November 15, 2016 [5 favorites]

Bannon may or may not be a white nationalist himself (he seems to describe himself as more of a Catholic "church militant"), but there seems to be no doubt that he intends to use white nationalism and racial hatred to his advantage in every way possible.

Donald Trump believed to be direct descendant of Rurik the Viking who established Russian state

Oh God.
posted by Golden Eternity at 3:55 PM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

Four months for Top Secret security clearance?

Hahahahahahah. Unless it's expedited, four months?

Four months for the paperwork to get off the investigator's desk, more like.

And I'm not sure interim clearance will be enough for the information they're supposed to be handling.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 3:57 PM on November 15, 2016 [2 favorites]

Looking for someone to blame? It's not third parties.

By Jill Stein.

"Looking for scapegoats is a way to avoid reflection, criticism and accountability after failure. Those who claimed that Clinton was more electable than Bernie Sanders, despite his stronger polling against Trump, are now desperately trying to spin the failure of their strategy......... So are the runner-ups of this bitter election merely looking for a scapegoat, or are they willing to work constructively to fix systemic problems? The very fact that the political and media establishment was able to ram two historically unpopular candidates down our collective throats exposes a critical need for greater democracy. Ranked choice voting is an obvious first step."
posted by Rumple at 3:58 PM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

I would love ranked choice voting just to see Jill Stein come in dead last, again. Maybe she'd go away then.
posted by birdheist at 4:02 PM on November 15, 2016 [39 favorites]

Donald Trump believed to be direct descendant of Rurik the Viking who established Russian state

oh for christ's sake

"Looking for scapegoats is a way to avoid reflection, criticism and accountability after failure. Those who claimed that Clinton was more electable than Bernie Sanders, despite his stronger polling against Trump, are now desperately trying to spin the failure of their strategy

hey don't blame me for saying that Clinton was worse than Trump and for yanking sufficient support away in key states to throw the electoral college Trump's way aaaghgh

/lights hair on fire

Ranked choice voting is an obvious first step.

I - actually, that's not a bad idea.
posted by Existential Dread at 4:03 PM on November 15, 2016 [8 favorites]

I really, really need Jill Stein to look into the face of an 8-year-old and say, "well, yes, your parents are probably going to be deported, but you'd be just as bad off if the other person had won."

Or, I guess not, but I would like to hear what she thinks we should tell those children.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 4:03 PM on November 15, 2016 [36 favorites]

I wonder if Alex Jones will invite her to the 2020 debates.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 4:04 PM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

Chris Matthews: "Trump was tickling my erogenous zones"
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:04 PM on November 15, 2016

Remember that High Weirdness By Mail thread? Because I feel as if I've all of a sudden woken up in a world where the more toxic cranks and weirdos rule.

I actually own a copy of the original book, and I never ever dreamed of living in a world where some of those cranks and conspiracy theorists were now actually running the country.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 4:04 PM on November 15, 2016 [9 favorites]

Or, I guess not, but I would like to hear what she thinks we should tell those children.

Watch out for WiFi. Oh, and sorry about the mumps.
posted by Existential Dread at 4:06 PM on November 15, 2016 [6 favorites]

I would love ranked choice voting just to see Jill Stein come in dead last, again. Maybe she'd go away then.

...last, behind "None of the above" and "Harambe, in the sense that I would rather be governed by a dead gorilla than everyone I rank lower than this."
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 4:06 PM on November 15, 2016 [8 favorites]

I vote for let's not talk about Jill Stein
posted by prize bull octorok at 4:07 PM on November 15, 2016 [36 favorites]

Jill Stein has been added to my Scott Adams file for people I don't ever need to hear from again. She got exactly the result she wanted from this election and I'm looking forward to seeing whether her theory that Trump's victory will accelerate a progressive revolution will prove true. I suspect that thirty years of retrograde Supreme Court decisions and a rapidly deteriorating climate will destroy us faster than we progressives can get organized much beyond figuring out new ways to alienate our allies.

I hope she goes back to recording folk rock. She might be incompetent at that but I think most of her policy positions work better as 4 minute, 90 word, mid-tempo campfire chants.
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:07 PM on November 15, 2016 [11 favorites]

Feel free to tweet @lee_glend or any of the other US Guardian editorial staff to ask them why they're giving ink to Jill Stein. I know I did.
posted by TypographicalError at 4:09 PM on November 15, 2016 [3 favorites]

Maybe Roseanne Barr will try to take over the Green Party leadership again
posted by Apocryphon at 4:09 PM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

I ... know a higher level member of Stein's campaign. He's about as terrible and privileged as you imagine him to be.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 4:12 PM on November 15, 2016 [7 favorites]

Earth Scientist Jacquelyn Gill writes to her students and colleagues:

Live in fragments no longer

When you feel torn in a million pieces, it’s hard to know where to go. People will capitalize on that uncertainty and use it against you. Don’t let them. Don’t give in to despair or complacency. Those of us in positions of power — university professors, communicators, teachers, researchers — we have a duty, more than ever, to lead.

Start by telling your students and staff that you value them. Tell them they belong here, that the diversity they bring makes our universities a better place. Tell them your office or lab is a safe haven for them. Tell them that you will be there, day or night, if something happens in the community and they feel unsafe. Send an email to your classroom, your lab, your department. Check in with your colleagues. The more layers of protection you have — if you are white, or male, or straight especially — the more important this is.

posted by Rumple at 4:14 PM on November 15, 2016 [16 favorites]

Lol, but emails!

@mitchellreports
Trump team has asked for son in law Jared Kushner to have top secret clearance for Presidential Daily Brief no precedent for that
posted by chris24 at 4:17 PM on November 15, 2016 [11 favorites]

By Jill Stein.


Go with God, but go, Jill. GO
posted by ocschwar at 4:18 PM on November 15, 2016 [2 favorites]

Trump team has asked for son in law Jared Kushner to have top secret clearance for Presidential Daily Brief no precedent for that

I hope everybody whose Serious Principled Objection to voting for Clinton was that it'd be too "dynastic" feels like a total fuckin moron right now
posted by prize bull octorok at 4:19 PM on November 15, 2016 [87 favorites]

Trump team has asked for son in law Jared Kushner to have top secret clearance for Presidential Daily Brief no precedent for that

That's future Presidential Consort Kushner of the Ivanka administration you're talking about there.

On Preview:

that it'd be too "dynastic"

Damn it, Prize Bull, that's the same point I'm making but your point is better made.
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:23 PM on November 15, 2016 [2 favorites]

Maybe Roseanne Barr will try to take over the Green Party leadership again

I thought the mods told us to knock it off with the whole trying to figure out what a leftist Trump would be?
posted by Talez at 4:26 PM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

Donald Trump believed to be direct descendant of Rurik the Viking who established Russian state

Dear Lord... that would make him and I distant relatives. I feel... soiled.
posted by Hairy Lobster at 4:27 PM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

Update from Michigan w.r.t. Bannon: Senator Stabenow has spoken on the matter, and Senator Peters' voicemail box is full. Emailed them both with my thanks and concern respectfully, respectfully. I find their offices to be reasonably responsive to e-mail. Check on the phone over the next week.
posted by JoeXIII007 at 4:27 PM on November 15, 2016 [5 favorites]

Donald Trump believed to be direct descendant of Rurik the Viking who established Russian state

I can't help but think this is one of those "everyone is related to Charlemagne" things.
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:28 PM on November 15, 2016 [9 favorites]

Ranked choice voting empowers you to vote for the candidates who best represent your values. No one can tell you you’re “throwing your vote away” if you don’t vote for the “lesser evil” in order to stop the candidate you fear most.


So...since we don't have ranked choice, is she saying that third party voters did throw away their vote this time?

And, super small sample size because I only know a couple, but some Stein voters used her as a cop out protest vote. They didn't totally back her platform, but didn't really think she'd win so weren't that concerned about it. So they too voted for a lesser evil, but couldn't be bothered to make it a useful vote.

Granted, they also didn't think Trump would win, and one has had a bit of an existential crisis about the whole thing, it's been a bit like a kid finding out way too late that Santa Claus isn't real. I do not think the error will be repeated, as they seem to be coming to terms with the fact they can't just rely on others to make tough choices
posted by ghost phoneme at 4:30 PM on November 15, 2016 [3 favorites]

Latest twitter churn - Kris Kobach for AG. TOM COTTON for Defense. God help us all.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:30 PM on November 15, 2016

I hope everybody whose Serious Principled Objection to voting for Clinton was that it'd be too "dynastic" feels like a total fuckin moron right now

For them to feel like a moron would involve it having been a real objection in the first place.
posted by winna at 4:32 PM on November 15, 2016 [12 favorites]

Can someone explain with a Republican controlled Senate, what the options are going to be in terms of repudiating Trump's nominees?

Is it something that is better fought in the media?

Because these are really bad people, folks.
posted by cell divide at 4:34 PM on November 15, 2016

Ugh. This is our Pravda, this is what we can expect in the future

@ByMikeBaker The map is fake. The story is incredibly misleading. And it's spreading like crazy all over Facebook.

It is a graphic from Breitbart that shows a solidly red map of the USA with only tiny edges of blue and the words, "Donald Trump won 7.5 million popular vote landslide in heartland.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:34 PM on November 15, 2016 [4 favorites]

TOM COTTON for Defense.

Who's that?
posted by thelonius at 4:34 PM on November 15, 2016

I think they are probably floating Cotton and Kobach to see if the reaction will be as bad as Bannon.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:35 PM on November 15, 2016

> Credit where due: This is finally getting the Bannon story correct

That's the NYT yesterday with "Bannon Holds Racist Views, Members of Both Parties Say"

Unfortunately it looks like the NYT has already already caved. The article (I believe it's the same one) now reads: "Trump’s Choice of Stephen Bannon Is Nod to Anti-Washington Base."
posted by en forme de poire at 4:35 PM on November 15, 2016

WaPo has an article with a more pressing question I think (but, Style section??)
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 4:38 PM on November 15, 2016

But the thing that got us out of it, the organizing principle that met this, was not just the heroism of our people — whether it was French resistance fighters, whether it was the Polish resistance fighters, or it’s the young men from Kansas City or the Midwest who stormed the beaches of Normandy, commandos in England that fought with the Royal Air Force, that fought this great war, really the Judeo-Christian West versus atheists, right?

Hmm...I think someone's missing from that list. Who could it be, I just don't know. Could it be...Stalin?!? And the atheist Red Army that killed most of the Nazis and essentially won the European Theater? And didn't the Nazis consider themselves good Christians or "believers in god" (Gottgläubig)? Atheists weren't allowed in the SS.

Also, the French Résistance was largely Communists and Socialists.
posted by kirkaracha at 4:40 PM on November 15, 2016 [10 favorites]

Can someone explain with a Republican controlled Senate, what the options are going to be in terms of repudiating Trump's nominees?

Probably the best we can hope for is dragging the process out somewhat. The trouble is, the only mechanism available to the Democrats to have any say at all in the process is the filibuster, and they'll have to use it judiciously it or will be eliminated.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 4:40 PM on November 15, 2016

Ah, sorry, it looks like that's actually a separate article - I just couldn't find the original. It's still a depressingly mild headline.
posted by en forme de poire at 4:40 PM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

Latest twitter churn - Kris Kobach for AG. TOM COTTON for Defense. God help us all.

I know I already said it once but we'll be in Iran by 2020.
posted by Talez at 4:41 PM on November 15, 2016 [2 favorites]

Newsdiffs is pretty disheartening.

"New Strategist in White House a Provocateur From the Fringe" ->
"New White House Strategist Brought In From the Fringe" ->
"Trump’s Choice of Stephen Bannon Is Nod to Anti-Washington Base"
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:43 PM on November 15, 2016 [3 favorites]

@JohnFugelsang: In 1 yr Ben Carson went from seeking jobs he's not qualified for to declining jobs he's not qualified for. And they say evolution's a myth.
posted by Rumple at 4:44 PM on November 15, 2016 [27 favorites]

Also, the French Résistance was largely Communists and Socialists.

only before 1945
posted by thelonius at 4:45 PM on November 15, 2016 [7 favorites]

Politico Power battles bog down Trump transition ‘It’s an absolute knife fight,’ said one Trump insider. ‘But that just makes it Tuesday.’

Controversy, meanwhile, continues to swirl. Republicans and Democrats alike sounded the alarms about both of Trump’s finalists to serve as his Secretary of State.

Rudy Giuliani, rumored to be Trump’s top choice, is facing new scrutiny following a POLITCO report detailing his paid consulting work for foreign governments that would create a massive conflict of interest should he be confirmed as the country’s top diplomat.[...]

According to two sources inside Trump Tower, the president-elect himself was leaning toward naming Bannon as chief of staff—until Kushner stepped in, raising concerns about putting the anti-establishment, alt-right figure in a position that holds so much symbolic and strategic importance.

Although Trump listened to his son-in-law and went with Republican National Committee Chairman Reince Priebus to run day-to-day operations inside his White House, he elevated Bannon as senior counselor and chief strategist, even listing him above Priebus on the press release announcing the new roles. When he gathered both men to explain their jobs before sending that release out, Trump spoke for more than 30 minutes and “laid out a very unstructured chain of command,” a source said.

After more than a year of chatter about how the Trump brigade was swallowing up the Republican Party, both have emerged from last week’s election intact—stronger, even. Now comes the difficult part: governing together.

“I would give them 100 to 150 days before the wheels are off and they’re fighting about everything,” said one GOP operative familiar with the Trump transition operation.

I'm waiting to see if Ryan tries to get rid of MediCare and privatize SocSec because Trump explicitly said while campaigning those two things would not be touched.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:47 PM on November 15, 2016 [6 favorites]

I can't help but think this is one of those "everyone is related to Charlemagne" things.

It's a Daily Mail mining nationalist tabloids and alt-right bloggers for clickbait thing.
posted by Apocryphon at 4:49 PM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

Goddamn, just call Hillary and ask her to be Secretary of State again.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:50 PM on November 15, 2016 [16 favorites]

Giuliani: "Of course" taking Iraq's oil would have been legal: "Until the war is over, anything is legal."

[link goes to twitter video from Good Morning America]

Really, Rudy, really? Anything is legal? Raping? Looting? Killing civilians?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:51 PM on November 15, 2016 [11 favorites]

@ByMikeBaker The map is fake. The story is incredibly misleading. And it's spreading like crazy all over Facebook.

Wtf. Just at a glance it's wrong on Cook County, IL, Hillsborough, Miami-Dade, FL, and my county (albany ny). Lies. It's just lies.
posted by dis_integration at 4:53 PM on November 15, 2016

No one is more unamerican than these sociopaths.
posted by Golden Eternity at 4:54 PM on November 15, 2016 [19 favorites]

The failure-reversion state of an 18th-century republic is apparently an 18th-century arbitrary monarchy.
posted by holgate at 4:54 PM on November 15, 2016 [3 favorites]

And of course the map's a fucking lie. It's a fucking lie that's quick and easy to propagate and meant to be difficult and time-consuming to correct once it's spread.

Everything is evil trolling.
posted by holgate at 4:55 PM on November 15, 2016 [7 favorites]

I'm starting to think that the Whatever high atop the Thing is just a fucking sociopath.
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:56 PM on November 15, 2016 [14 favorites]

@jbarro
Remember that time Paul LePage accidentally let a bunch of legislation he meant to veto become law? That's the kind of admin that's coming.
posted by chris24 at 4:57 PM on November 15, 2016 [4 favorites]

NYC - Women's Resistance Meeting (Live stream)
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:57 PM on November 15, 2016 [2 favorites]

That said, they did change the content. Archive, Present. They took out the quote about Nancy Pelosi calling him a "white nationalist," but they added more stuff about Sessions.
posted by en forme de poire at 4:58 PM on November 15, 2016

That said, they did change the content. Archive, Present. They took out the quote about Nancy Pelosi calling him a "white nationalist," but they added more stuff about Sessions.

Don't neglect newsdiffs, the best source for keeping track of this kind of thing.
posted by dis_integration at 5:02 PM on November 15, 2016 [7 favorites]

"One Democratic source, who like others would only discuss sensitive talks on condition of anonymity, said transition officials had been informally asking Obama political appointees to recommend Republicans to take over their jobs."
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:03 PM on November 15, 2016 [25 favorites]

transition officials had been informally asking Obama political appointees to recommend Republicans to take over their jobs

"Yeah, Dee Z. Nutz would be great for the job."
posted by kirkaracha at 5:04 PM on November 15, 2016 [15 favorites]

Interesting. The Style section of WaPo went with the blurring of the lines between Bannon in the White House and Breitbart political news coverage. The Style section of the NYT went with the blurring of the lines between Ivanka in the White House and her businesses.

NYT Ivanka Trump Blurs the Line Between Professional and Political

In the week since Donald J. Trump’s election as president of the United States, much has been written about the potential conflicts of interest a sitting president with a global business may encounter (among other things).

Less attention, however, has been paid to the even fuzzier situation of the close family members of a sitting president, and their business interests — though on Monday, it became clear that this is an another potential minefield, at least when it comes to the first daughter Ivanka Trump and a brand that is largely built on her image.

Her company is blaming the ad for her bangle which she wore on 60 Minutes on a well-intentioned marketing employee-- no doubt named Meredith.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:05 PM on November 15, 2016 [4 favorites]

transition officials had been informally asking Obama political appointees to recommend Republicans to take over their jobs

i would find it pretty hard not to submarine this with some recommendations for inefficient, incompetent, closet-prog, or other chaotic elements.
posted by j_curiouser at 5:10 PM on November 15, 2016 [3 favorites]

>Donald Trump believed to be direct descendant of Rurik the Viking who established Russian state

Um... the first bullet point under the headline says, "President-elect Donald Trump believed to have some Viking descendants"

First they came for the copy editors...

Even in dark times, things are still funny.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 5:11 PM on November 15, 2016 [8 favorites]

Maybe we should start taking bets on the number of empty appointments on Jan 20?
posted by AlexiaSky at 5:13 PM on November 15, 2016 [4 favorites]

The Republicans who do have their shit together will probably start sending Reince lists asap.
posted by drezdn at 5:16 PM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

Donald Trump believed to be direct descendant of Rurik the Viking who established Russian state

Dear Lord... that would make him and I distant relatives. I feel... soiled.

Are you crazy? Polish up the resume -- you could be Secretary of Treasury!
posted by notyou at 5:18 PM on November 15, 2016 [24 favorites]

Don't neglect newsdiffs, the best source for keeping track of this kind of thing.

I literally just did a manual diff of them so this is great, thanks. But I don't think they have full text of NYT articles?
posted by en forme de poire at 5:21 PM on November 15, 2016

transition officials had been informally asking Obama political appointees to recommend Republicans to take over their jobs

This is the best outcome we could possibly hope for. If they take it seriously, they will name principled Republicans who can stand up to the administration.
posted by corb at 5:22 PM on November 15, 2016 [15 favorites]

The Republicans who do have their shit together will probably start sending Reince lists asap.

Yeahbut, they also have to be willing to have it on their resume, and willing to leave whatever they're doing now to have a bloated idiot scream at them about stuff they know and care about for a while and then when they leave or he leaves (or strokes out) anything they did work on gets undone by one of Bannon's klanners.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 5:26 PM on November 15, 2016 [2 favorites]

it's just comic how these aristocrats are going to have to assert so many things on an SF-86 that are likely demonstrably false.

Wouldn't the provisions of the Standard Family NDA be incompatible with some of the basic requirements for federal vetting?

(And a literal interpretation of "Have you EVER experienced financial problems due to gambling?" would rule out all the adult spawn.)
posted by holgate at 5:28 PM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

Just to emphasize this, according to the Politico story above, Trump wanted Bannon for Chief of Staff until Kushner intervened, so now there's Priebus and Bannon with a "very unstructured chain of command." At this point, Jared seems to be running the show.
posted by zachlipton at 5:30 PM on November 15, 2016 [4 favorites]

Yeahbut, they also have to be willing to have it on their resume, and willing to leave whatever they're doing now to have a bloated idiot scream at them about stuff they know and care about for a while and then when they leave or he leaves (or strokes out) anything they did work on gets undone by one of Bannon's klanners.

If they're quietly principled, they may go into the job knowing this, and intending to slow-walk the most egregious items on the to-do list. "Oops, the permit paperwork for The Wall got mailed to the wrong place, so we missed a deadline. Gotta start from step one!"

(Edit: Not meaning to imply that The Wall is the worst item on their list.)
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 5:30 PM on November 15, 2016 [3 favorites]

just call Hillary and ask her to be Secretary of State again.

Maybe he'll try her and put her under house arrest - at the White House.
posted by Apocryphon at 5:30 PM on November 15, 2016 [8 favorites]

Did all the Steves make the cut? I'm worried about the Steves.
posted by kirkaracha at 5:30 PM on November 15, 2016 [10 favorites]

(And a literal interpretation of "Have you EVER experienced financial problems due to gambling?" would rule out all the adult spawn.)

None of the "have you ever" questions in the application are deal-breakers on their own. The issue is, is someone likely to leak info, either casually to friends/family, or because they are offered money/other rewards (in which case, it's a detriment if they have debt/money problems), or because they are blackmailed? Someone who is out-and-proud gay is not at risk; someone who's in the closet and would be emotionally devastated if word got to the family, is a security risk.

However, I think the foreign connections are what would likely nix their security clearances. They'd have to show that they won't use confidential US info to affect their foreign interests.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 5:32 PM on November 15, 2016 [3 favorites]

I couldn't imagine working for this administration, because Trump had no idea where he wants to go. The research and the budget committees will be doing alot of just throwing away hard work because he can't make a desision and stick with it. Writing legislation isn't exactly an easy process, and Trump deciding to veto his own bill for who knows what reason is bound to happen.
posted by AlexiaSky at 5:32 PM on November 15, 2016 [3 favorites]

I have just enough troll left in me from the late 90's (USENET 4 life) that I half-want to apply for a job in his administration just to see how far along I could get before they found out I'm completely the wrong person. I bet I could get an interview and maybe even a free trip to DC out of it. I'm pretty good at bullshitting this sort of thing. Also: white male.
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:37 PM on November 15, 2016 [35 favorites]

transition officials had been informally asking Obama political appointees to recommend Republicans to take over their jobs

This is the best outcome we could possibly hope for. If they take it seriously, they will name principled Republicans who can stand up to the administration.

Hell, given the transition team's apparent lack of knowledge about anything, they could probably nominate a bunch of Democrats. Get Obama to put on a fake mustache and do it under a false name...
posted by Pink Frost at 5:37 PM on November 15, 2016 [20 favorites]

here's hoping these fascists are as bad at the actual fascism as they are at handling the transition
posted by murphy slaw at 5:38 PM on November 15, 2016 [22 favorites]

Get Obama to put on a fake mustache and do it under a false name...

"My name is Vincent Republicanman...."
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:39 PM on November 15, 2016 [38 favorites]

Hell, given the transition team's apparent lack of knowledge about anything, they could probably nominate a bunch of Democrats. Get Obama to put on a fake mustache and do it under a false name...

I have seen this meme/img-macro already, except he also had a fake moustache. [real]
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 5:41 PM on November 15, 2016

Goddamn, just call Hillary and ask her to be Secretary of State again.

Yes please, the woman needs a good laugh. If possible, I would also like to hear that laugh, and volunteer to mix her two cocktails of choice: one for the spit take and one to enjoy after she manages to stop laughing.

In all seriousness, any competent person has to be conflicted about working with this administration. Most people probably don't want to see everything burn, but how much good can a few people do when dealing with this level of incompetence? And they'll likely just be used as sacrificial lambs when shit hits the fan despite their best efforts.
posted by ghost phoneme at 5:41 PM on November 15, 2016 [13 favorites]

I half-want to apply for a job in his administration just to see how far along I could get before they found out I'm completely the wrong person.

GO GO GO! I suspect that, sometime soon, they'll grasp at anyone competent who's willing to work for them. (And most of those who get hired, will be fired soon after, because they're not a pack that tolerates competence that clashes with their delusions.) But yes yes please, if you think they'd remotely consider hiring you, apply. If nothing else, it slows them down.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 5:41 PM on November 15, 2016 [8 favorites]

However, I think the foreign connections are what would likely nix their security clearances. They'd have to show that they won't use confidential US info to affect their foreign interests.

Awww, it's so cute that you guys think the rules will apply to Republicans!
posted by kirkaracha at 5:43 PM on November 15, 2016 [12 favorites]

I've read or tried to read a huge pile of think pieces about "what went wrong" this week, including some long damn thing by Todd VanDerWerff about how it's all TV's fault for not providing poor rural Americans a mirror of their lives (as if TV is really a mirror of any of our lives, and as if we'd actually want to watch TV shows about out lives) but I haven't seen much about how I see this election as the triumphant culmination of a decade or more of internet bullying and harassment.

All over the internet I see people posting comments with the exact same phrasing, and the exact same links, in reaction to things like the Kate McKinnon "Hallelujah" piece, or my local alt-weekly's weak sauce editorial about keeping an eye on Trump. Crybabies, and links to stories about Hillary being a drunk, and there's just such a violent instant groupthink spewing everywhere, using the same words, and people are still thinking this was about economic stresses on guys in Nebraska? Do I sound crazy? I think sound crazy.
posted by Squeak Attack at 5:43 PM on November 15, 2016 [20 favorites]

At this point, Jared seems to be running the show.

This makes a lot of sense to me because (just spitballin here) it appears that Eric and Don, Jr. are kind of numties. Neither of them seem committed to be the sharkish business go-getter their Dad is. Look at how Don, Sr. broke off from Fred and started his own businesses (albeit with a lot of financial help from Dad) whereas his own spawn have not done so. Except for Ivanka. She has the hustle. She is committed to building business and so is her husband. Now as dearly as DJT seems to love Ivanka I can't really see him taking her advice on his political moves, but Ivanka's husband is another story.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:45 PM on November 15, 2016 [2 favorites]

@FrankConniff
When I think of how close we came to electing a President who had once used a private email server, it just terrifies me.
posted by chris24 at 5:45 PM on November 15, 2016 [67 favorites]

And in truly terrifying news...

@SimonMaloy
holy hell, lunatic Islamophobic conspiracy theorist Frank Gaffney is on the presidential transition team now http://www.wsj.com/articles/intelligence-expert-mike-rogers-leaves-trump-transition-team-amid-shake-up-1479221847
posted by chris24 at 5:46 PM on November 15, 2016 [2 favorites]

Most people probably don't want to see everything burn, but how much good can a few people do when dealing with this level of incompetence?

You can either take it down from within, or save lives if that's what's at stake. Seems like an opportunity worth capitalizing upon, at least.
posted by Apocryphon at 5:47 PM on November 15, 2016 [2 favorites]

I will say it again: no woman should apply to work anyplace in that joint where she might come into contact with the President-Elect. We have ample evidence of how he treats professional contacts, subordinates, neighbors, reporters, strangers on planes. . . .
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:48 PM on November 15, 2016 [3 favorites]

So several years ago I was working at a company that hired a new CEO, one who had no idea how the industry we worked in actually functioned. No experience, no connections, nothing beside his huge ego and conman methodology. He ran it into the fucking ground, no surprise, while "hiring" his children fresh out of college for positions with "Director" in the title, and committed various insurance fraud while stealing company property. It was hell. Most of us quit before he was officially sued, but several people couldn't (here on visas) and lost a ton of both time and money.

Working there was such a fucking nightmare, I got my first tattoo right after leaving as a reminder to never let myself get so taken advantage of again.

And now our government is going to be that company? Fuuuuuuuuck this.
posted by erratic meatsack at 5:48 PM on November 15, 2016 [40 favorites]

These guys are good at getting media attention not governing. Senate Republicans are already indicating the filibuster will remain. Yeah it's so they can maintain control over the Trump administration and also because they know that slamming through repeals will be awful for Republicans in terms of elections.
posted by vuron at 5:49 PM on November 15, 2016 [5 favorites]

In Rust Belt states, Trump picked up largest vote shares in counties with higher drug, alcohol and suicide mortality rates (correlation = .401), from @smonnat
posted by Rumple at 5:51 PM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

Is this the second or third transition team "shake-up" in the past week? Official soundtrack of the Trump Administration.
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:54 PM on November 15, 2016 [3 favorites]

Well duh, drug abuse, alcoholism, suicide and Trump Voting are all related forms of self-harm.
posted by oneswellfoop at 5:54 PM on November 15, 2016 [4 favorites]

Senate Republicans are already indicating the filibuster will remain. Yeah it's so they can maintain control over the Trump administration and also because they know that slamming through repeals will be awful for Republicans in terms of elections.

also so they can accuse the democrats of obscruction when they use it and blame them for the government not working

and it won't be working

all donnie knows how to do is make money and he's not all that good at it
posted by pyramid termite at 5:58 PM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

USA Today Exclusive: Fox anchor Megyn Kelly describes scary, bullying 'Year of Trump'

During their one-sided feud, Trump called Kelly a bimbo, a lightweight, a liar, crazy and sick; he urged a boycott against her show; his attorney retweeted a call to “gut" her. “Strange men turned up outside" her door, she wrote. “Death threats were common." She, her husband and their three children vacationed at Disney World with an armed bodyguard in tow.

“He couldn’t let it go for so long," she said of Trump, “and there was a time when I wondered if he’d ever let it go."

Many have commented on the sang-froid with which Kelly seemed to respond to all this. But she said she was afraid — for her safety and her family’s and for her reputation as a journalist trying to cover the story and not be the story.[...]

Whatever's next between Kelly and Trump, she said his campaign against her is an ominous precedent:

“I have a big mic, and I was established. He couldn’t really destroy me," she said, "but think about the message that was sent to other journalists thinking about covering him skeptically. Perhaps they just don’t want to spend a year being bullied."

posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:58 PM on November 15, 2016 [32 favorites]

You can either take it down from within, or save lives if that's what's at stake. Seems like an opportunity worth capitalizing upon, at least.

My main concern would be potentially prolonging the problem by lending some legitimacy to the administration (this is really only applicable for the high level positions) and by keeping things going just well enough he gets re-elected...but I just realized that I was being silly thinking the next election will make anymore sense than this one.
posted by ghost phoneme at 5:59 PM on November 15, 2016

Senate Republicans are already indicating the filibuster will remain.

They wont admit this yet. It really depends on how effectively Dems can use it. First time they actually filibuster something Republicans really want, the SCOTUS pick or Obamacare repeal, or something, that'll be it.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:01 PM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

In Rust Belt states, Trump picked up largest vote shares in counties with higher drug, alcohol and suicide mortality rates (correlation = .401), from @smonnat

Yeah, Rumple, I read something about that before the election. Trump's support was strongest among people who were doing ok but who lived in places where a lot of people weren't doing well at all. What concerned them was not their personal plight, because the average Trump voter wasn't really suffering. It was that their communities seemed to be going to hell.

Which is interesting, but I'm still not really ready to have any empathy for Trump voters at all.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:03 PM on November 15, 2016 [4 favorites]

Trump doesn't have to effective to get legislation passed, just the House and Senate need to be.
posted by drezdn at 6:06 PM on November 15, 2016

NYTimes In Czech Republic, Some Hope a Trump Could Bring Star Power

To many in the Czech Republic, she is celebrated as a local girl who went on to achieve global celebrity. Now Ivana Trump, President-elect Donald J. Trump’s first wife, says she wants to become ambassador to the Czech Republic, leading some in her homeland to hope that she can inject some glamour into the central European country and burnish its global image.

Speculation about whether Ms. Trump, 67, could become America’s top diplomat in Prague has been swirling in the Czech Republic since she told The New York Post that she would be well-suited for the job.

“I will suggest that I be ambassador for the Czech Republic,” Ms. Trump told the Post in an interview published over the weekend, noting that she was fluent in Czech and had a high profile in the country of her birth. “I’m known by the name Ivana. I really did not need the name Trump.”[...]

While her stance on foreign policy is not widely known, she revealed some of her political instincts by praising the immigrants her ex-husband has spent the last year and a half bashing.

“We do need the immigrants,” she told the Post. “They are fantastic. I actually had an Arabic woman wearing the scarf working for me for five years, and then she moved to Texas. She was wearing the head scarf and I said, ‘I really don’t care. As long as she’s doing a good job and in the country legally and is paying the taxes and speaks a little bit of the English.’”

She is an immigrant herself, of course she is going to agree that immigrants are fine people.
How far does that nepotism rule go? Can he hire his ex-wife?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:10 PM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

Fake News Sites Are Not Terribly Worried About Google Kicking Them Off AdSense

Allen Montgomery, who runs National Report and about 10 other fake news websites, says Google informed him this week that his advertising account was being shut down — not that he’s too worried.

“I get emails daily from other networks that are more than happy to work with me.” he told BuzzFeed News.

In fact, Google’s attempt to stop websites that spread misinformation from using its AdSense advertising platform is mostly being met with a shrug by publishers who specialize in the kind of fake stories that often go viral on social media.

The real money in in Taboola-style "surgeons say this is a death food" stuff anyway, and I'd imagine those ads do particularly well with the audience likely to enjoy fake news sites.
posted by zachlipton at 6:13 PM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

Holy fuck

@kerpen: Just got tip that DANA ROHRABACHER is being vetted as potential fallback SecState if Rudy ethics issue conflicts him out.
posted by Golden Eternity at 6:14 PM on November 15, 2016

Charles Pierce: How Much Can We Logically Expect Donald Trump to Learn on the Job? The president-elect has no idea what being president entails.

Donald Trump Can't Bring 'That' America Back: A message to the people of Maine.
posted by homunculus at 6:14 PM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

What concerned them was not their personal plight, because the average Trump voter wasn't really suffering. It was that their communities seemed to be going to hell.

I've definitely known (1) several Stein supporters who probably would have voted for Trump had they not considered themselves to be liberals: incredibly privileged fools who think their lives are bad and that the Democrats should be "taught a lesson."

I'm vindictive enough to pray that they live to see how bad their lives can actually become.

(1) Again with the past tense; I encourage everyone else to use it for those assholes as well.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 6:15 PM on November 15, 2016 [4 favorites]

How far does that nepotism rule go? Can he hire his ex-wife?


Ambassadorships to nations like CZ, where life is comfortable, and our relations to them are so resilient any idiot could be the ambassador, do get handed out to cronies and donors. So it's not that big a step to make it nepotistic as well.
posted by ocschwar at 6:18 PM on November 15, 2016 [3 favorites]

Aww Christ

TPM Trump Comes Out for Medicare Phaseout

Jon Cohn, one of the best, probably the best health care policy journalist out there, flags that Trump has flipped on phasing out Medicare. As Jon notes here, back in the spring Trump said he wouldn't touch Medicare or Social Security. But his new transition website says he'll support the Ryan Phaseout plan.

posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:18 PM on November 15, 2016 [8 favorites]

People (outside Metafilter) are wringing their hands about how divided this country is and how much worse it's going to get under Trump, but boy, this fat liberal dyke did not expect to respect and admire Megyn Kelly, Jeff Flake and Mitt Romney as much as I do. If anything, he's making anyone semi-moderate in the GOP look downright friendly.

I wish Megyn Kelly hadn't waited until after the election to start really publicizing her story, but she has guts, either way, to be speaking up at all.
posted by the thorn bushes have roses at 6:19 PM on November 15, 2016 [34 favorites]

In Rust Belt states, Trump picked up largest vote shares in counties with higher drug, alcohol and suicide mortality rates (correlation = .401), from @smonnat


It's also a thing y'all need to understand, which is that it's a particular Mexican cartel, the Jalisco cartel, that flooded these areas with heroin.
posted by ocschwar at 6:22 PM on November 15, 2016 [4 favorites]

@kerpen: Just got tip that DANA ROHRABACHER is being vetted as potential fallback SecState if Rudy ethics issue conflicts him out.

Unbelievably, previously in the New York Times: Kremlin Finds a Defender in Congress:

It is a lonely pursuit these days, defending Russia in Congress as outrage over Kremlin aggression grows louder. But Representative Dana Rohrabacher speaks up for Moscow with pride.

He is, he says, a bit frosted with the Russian government in one respect.

“I kind of wish I would get some sort of word back,” Mr. Rohrabacher, a California Republican, said Thursday shortly before the House voted 399 to 19 to offer aid to Ukraine and impose sanctions on Russia. “But I haven’t even gotten so much as a thank you.”

The 13-term congressman has had a long, strange journey from fierce Cold Warrior to apologist for President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia. In 1966 when Ronald Reagan was running for governor of California, Mr. Rohrabacher camped out in the candidate’s backyard, pleading for an audience to prevent the disbanding of his Youth for Reagan group in favor of a rival’s. By last year, Mr. Rohrabacher was accompanying the action star Steven Seagal to Russia in search of a broader Islamist plot behind the Boston Marathon bombing. The actor and the congressman had often discussed “thwarting radical Islamic terrorism,” he explained.

Then came Russia’s takeover of Crimea, and Mr. Rohrabacher had to draw the line — in favor of Mr. Putin.

Meanwhile, how about Frank Gaffney? (2010)

Frank has discovered that Obama has used the Pentagon's new logo for national missile defense to send a secret coded message about his plans to submit America to Islam and the rule of Sharia law. To quote the man: "Team Obama's anti-anti-missile initiatives are not simply acts of unilateral disarmament of the sort to be expected from an Alinsky acolyte. They seem to fit an increasingly obvious and worrying pattern of official U.S. submission to Islam and the theo-political-legal program the latter's authorities call Shariah."

posted by zachlipton at 6:22 PM on November 15, 2016 [7 favorites]

Remember when people were speculating Trump has some sort of cognitive disorder, and/or can't focus long enough to read a page of text? The job of President is like 84% reading, 14% people skills, and 2% public speaking. He may not be physically or mentally capable of doing 84% of the job.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:24 PM on November 15, 2016 [8 favorites]

I wonder if Rohrabacher's name is being floated to make Rudy G. seem more palatable by comparison.
posted by drezdn at 6:25 PM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

@kerpen: Just got tip that DANA ROHRABACHER is being vetted as potential fallback SecState if Rudy ethics issue conflicts him out.

Interesting

NYTimes MARCH 28, 2014 Kremlin Finds a Defender in Congress

WASHINGTON — It is a lonely pursuit these days, defending Russia in Congress as outrage over Kremlin aggression grows louder. But Representative Dana Rohrabacher speaks up for Moscow with pride.

He is, he says, a bit frosted with the Russian government in one respect.

“I kind of wish I would get some sort of word back,” Mr. Rohrabacher, a California Republican, said Thursday shortly before the House voted 399 to 19 to offer aid to Ukraine and impose sanctions on Russia. “But I haven’t even gotten so much as a thank you.”

Who knew there were so many Putin-lovers in the Republican Party?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:26 PM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

If the new Trump administration is anything like when Walker took over, look for some people to end up with positions that they are way out their depth for.
posted by drezdn at 6:31 PM on November 15, 2016

Yeah, Rumple, I read something about that before the election. Trump's support was strongest among people who were doing ok but who lived in places where a lot of people weren't doing well at all. What concerned them was not their personal plight, because the average Trump voter wasn't really suffering. It was that their communities seemed to be going to hell.

It's interesting to read this interview with photojournalist Chris Arnade with that in mind (see also Chris Hayes's tweets on humiliation):

I think the bigger word is humiliation, and how that humiliation ends up getting rendered is different from place to place. But at it’s core it’s about frustration, humiliation, and anomie, which is basically meaninglessness, feeling like not having a place, drifting.

How that is expressed is very different based on where you are, and it’s very different based on race. If you’re feeling a sense of meaninglessness and frustration and you’re a black kid in Milwaukee you express it very differently than if you’re a white kid across the park. Also if you’re male or female, and that’s where our racism and sexism come into the dialogue.

I don’t think people understood the full anger out there, and when they did they didn’t want to believe it, so the reporting came back was very anthropological—look at these crazy people and their anger.

His work shown in the piece focuses on a very particular kind of Trump supporter that isn't perhaps all that representative of a much broader group, but the theme of "humiliation" is important I think, and it's something Trump really tapped into and gave voice to. And if the goal is to make people and communities feel less humiliated, you don't have to deliver on any particular policies or promises to do that.
posted by zachlipton at 6:31 PM on November 15, 2016 [10 favorites]

Trump's support was strongest among people who were doing ok but who lived in places where a lot of people weren't doing well at all. What concerned them was not their personal plight, because the average Trump voter wasn't really suffering. It was that their communities seemed to be going to hell.

Shasta County, CA, where I went to HS, and to which I return once or twice a year for family stuff, is one of those falling apart places. (I spent some time googling the details to share; I got depressed. The employment situation is merely bad; the deaths by substance abuse are terrible.)

Election results (unofficial):

• Trump: 47,587 (64.02%)
• Clinton: 20,471 (27.54%)

posted by notyou at 6:33 PM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

In Rust Belt states, Trump picked up largest vote shares in counties with higher drug, alcohol and suicide mortality rates (correlation = .401), from @smonnat

It's also a thing y'all need to understand, which is that it's a particular Mexican cartel, the Jalisco cartel, that flooded these areas with heroin.

Did Clinton mention this even once on the campaign? If she did it wasn't emphasized. It's a huge issue in the rural counties.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:34 PM on November 15, 2016

In all seriousness, any competent person has to be conflicted about working with this administration. Most people probably don't want to see everything burn, but how much good can a few people do when dealing with this level of incompetence? And they'll likely just be used as sacrificial lambs when shit hits the fan despite their best efforts.

"Next to Washington, they all look small
All alone, Watch them run,
They will tear each other into pieces
Jesus Christ, this will be fun*!"

* for certain values of "fun." Offer void if you're not a privileged monarch with a crumbling grasp on power and reality.
posted by wildblueyonder at 6:35 PM on November 15, 2016 [3 favorites]

A nice summary of the day in Trump's transition.

One story I haven't seen here yet is WSJ: Donald Trump’s Transition Team Reshaped:

Vice President-elect Mike Pence formally signed documents that put him in charge of the transition team, and officials insisted the 10-week effort to build an administration is on schedule. In one of his first moves, Mr. Pence ordered the removal of all lobbyists from the transition team, said one transition team member with knowledge of the decisions.

posted by zachlipton at 6:35 PM on November 15, 2016

TPM Trump Comes Out for Medicare Phaseout

My first worst-case scenario after this past week's apocalypse was, "Well, if I lose my ACA plan, I hope I can do OK until Medicare."

But goddamn trumpublicans to hell. And even as the older farts are losing their healthcare too, they wont admit they were wrong.
 
 just call Hillary and ask her to be Secretary of State again.
--
Yes please, the woman needs a good laugh. If possible, I would also like to hear that laugh...

I have missed Hillary this past week; yours is one of the few comments I've seen alluding to a similar feeling.

Given all the events of the past week, i fully expect to die of an anger-caused brain aneurysm at some point in the next 4 years. possibly before conryn finishes speaking

I find myself thinking, "Maybe I went crazy a week ago, and I'm in some Terry Gilliam-like mental hospital hallucinating all this.

And for the sake of the rest of the country, would it were so.

"How's the patient today."
"Still insists Donald Trump was elected President."
"That poor woman."
"And she thinks some guy who looks like he's passing an ax is going to be VP."
"I'm just thankful President Rodham took away all the guns, so sick people like her cant have one."
"Yes, and thank Flying Spaghetti Monster for Hillcare."
posted by NorthernLite at 6:36 PM on November 15, 2016 [23 favorites]

Dang it, Zachlipton! Same pullquote and everything.

HuffPo Donald Trump’s Transition Team, Or Lack Thereof, Is Causing Real Panic

The disarray has left agencies virtually frozen, unable to communicate with the people tasked with replacing them and their staff. Trump transition team officials were a no-show at the Pentagon, the Washington Examiner reported. Same goes for the Department of Energy, responsible for keeping the nation’s nuclear weapons safe, where officials had expected members of the Trump transition team on Monday. Ditto for the Department of Transportation. Over at the Justice Department, officials also are still waiting to hear from the Trump team[...]

“One issue is [Retired Lt. Gen.] Michael Flynn,” said the insider. Flynn, vice chair of the Trump transition, is reportedly in line for a top national security post in the new administration. “It’s a major problem. No one wants to work for him or around him because of the time he was running the DIA,” or Defense Intelligence Agency[...]

Priebus, according to sources, is also skittish on the possibility of former Trump campaign manager Corey Lewandowski replacing him at the RNC, worried that he may undo a lot of the work from the past six years.

Wow. They are just a pack of wild dogs now, turning on each other. What a complete shit show.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:40 PM on November 15, 2016 [17 favorites]

Latest twitter churn - Kris Kobach for AG. TOM COTTON for Defense. God help us all.

Can't someone just write a Python script filled with the names of awful people to keep us terrimused like this for the next couple of weeks?

holy hell, lunatic Islamophobic conspiracy theorist Frank Gaffney is on the presidential transition team now

See? "Frank Gaffney for Secretary of Homeland Security". Just as authoritative and it still probably won't be as bad as whatever yahoo Trump ends up appointing.
posted by indubitable at 6:42 PM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

Ann Coulter for Secretary of State [fake]
posted by Rumple at 6:44 PM on November 15, 2016

Wow. They are just a pack of wild dogs now, turning on each other. What a complete shit show.

Meanwhile people are going to suffer and die needlessly. I truly fucking hate what this country will do to itself at times. What can the rest of us do? Trudge through fucking molasses and try to push the country forward.
posted by Talez at 6:45 PM on November 15, 2016 [10 favorites]

I'm one of those high-risk, super-expensive people on private insurance. Most people with my condition are on Medicare, even under age 65, and we're legally obligated to switch over within 33 months of treatment so we don't overburden the private insurance system. People like me with ESRD take up a giant chunk of the medicare budget annually, to the tune of $81 billion per year in 2013. My commercial insurance provider wants nothing more than for me to switch over to medicare ASAP so I'll be less of a burden to them.

Private/commercial insurers pump more money into lobbying than any other industry, including defense. There's going to be a clash, and a big one, and in the end it'll be very sick patients who will be holding the bill.
posted by mochapickle at 6:46 PM on November 15, 2016 [12 favorites]

The job of President is like 84% reading, 14% people skills, and 2% public speaking. He may not be physically or mentally capable of doing 84% of the job.

I think you are giving him too much credit, T. D. Strange. I'm not convinced he has good people skills. He doesn't seem to have any close friends and he appears to be pretty bad at managing.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:47 PM on November 15, 2016 [11 favorites]

Ann Coulter for Secretary of State [fake]

Yeah, Newt already has her as the head of HUAC II.
posted by drezdn at 6:47 PM on November 15, 2016

I was thinking Ann Coulter for Surgeon General.
posted by notyou at 6:47 PM on November 15, 2016

Allies for Press Secretary [fake]
posted by AlexiaSky at 6:48 PM on November 15, 2016

It's not just the cabinent, he has to fill FOUR THOUSAND posts with competent people. Or with Trump Brownshirts. And we're already seeing the supply of those is very finite, especially if Trump has to know them personally.

My own boss (well, my boss' boss) is a low level political appointee. Last I heard he was planning to retire with the outgoing administration. There are thousands of similar departments that will be left effectively leaderless and fumbling, waiting for Trump to get around to appointing a moron to destroy everything they've built their careers for.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:50 PM on November 15, 2016 [11 favorites]

I was thinking Ann Coulter for Surgeon General.

ICE more probably
posted by tivalasvegas at 6:50 PM on November 15, 2016

Can't someone just write a Python script filled with the names of awful people to keep us terrimused like this for the next couple of weeks?

If I finish my computer science homework, I am seriously doing this. My co-worker and I actually spent all day coming up with good possibilities. Tom Tancredo for Secretary of the Interior! Steve King for Health and Human Services!
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:50 PM on November 15, 2016 [2 favorites]

I really have to remind myself to order campaign gear sooner. My H-> logo decals arrived the day before election day. And, sadly, the H-> logo baseball cap I ordered arrived today. Guess I'll wear that to Thanksgiving and see how that goes over. /s

But to make up for it, several MeFites came through with invitations to PN, so thank you fine folks. I'm in the DC/MD/VA (with a few friends, apparently!) and now the mothership.
posted by emelenjr at 6:52 PM on November 15, 2016 [2 favorites]

It's hard to beat Surgeon General Carson though.

2016: The year parody died.
posted by tivalasvegas at 6:54 PM on November 15, 2016 [6 favorites]

"One Democratic source, who like others would only discuss sensitive talks on condition of anonymity, said transition officials had been informally asking Obama political appointees to recommend Republicans to take over their jobs."

I know this guy, staunch, staunch Republican, real solid conservative, good guy to have in your White House. Now, don't laugh, but he goes by the name "You Can't Tip A Buick" on this website I know...
posted by indubitable at 6:54 PM on November 15, 2016 [11 favorites]

Reminder that Frank Gaffney was considered insane enough to actually be banned from CPAC.

--@Mobute

@Mobute The bar to get banned from CPAC is like to be cut off from the breadsticks at Olive Garden. I didn't even know it existed.

--@MikeMitchNH

(h/t Pope Guilty)
posted by zachlipton at 6:58 PM on November 15, 2016 [13 favorites]

Ha ha sob: Trump transition website lifts passages from nonpartisan nonprofit.

Among other things, this page has what used to be an internal link on presidentialtransition.org, referring to "our library".
posted by jackbishop at 7:01 PM on November 15, 2016 [2 favorites]

The president-elect is failing his first chance at greatness, very much like the last president-elect that lost the popular vote.

I was wrong. Reuniting a shattered nation he had a major part in dividing wouldn't be great, it'd be basic human decency. But I think that's also beyond the capacity of the president-elect.
posted by kirkaracha at 7:04 PM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

@realDonaldTrump

Very organized process taking place as I decide on Cabinet and many other positions. I am the only one who knows who the finalists are!


[sound of Earth screaming]
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 7:07 PM on November 15, 2016 [28 favorites]

The trouble is, the only mechanism available to the Democrats to have any say at all in the process is the filibuster, and they'll have to use it judiciously it or will be eliminated.

Use it judiciously? You mean don't filibuster so that they can save for when they really need it? Well, that's really dumb. Republicans will be delighted at the cowardice and use it to their advantage. Use it or don't use it but saving it for when you really need it is exactly when Republicans will nuke it.
posted by JackFlash at 7:07 PM on November 15, 2016 [8 favorites]

Is there anybody who doubts this will be the very first act?

*Raises hand*.

No, you:

1. Repeat the theme of crocodile tears about the struggles of inner-city black and brown people.

2. Bleed the programs that help them hold things together by a mix of outright funding cuts and by making the government bureaucracy grind to a halt.

3. Condemn criminal activity, step up confrontational policing until a steady stream of rather impeachable young men can be pointed to. Extra points if it's someone who loses their temper at a protest or is otherwise associated with mass movements of opposition.

4. Make more noises decrying the 'crisis on our nation's streets'. Put forward 'concerned' POC whenever possible.

5. Demure when right-wingers call for 'appropriate action' to protect the citizens.

6. Make the right-wingers beg for it.

7. Capitulate, sorrowfully, with 'pilot curfews' and 'streamlined policing power' in designated 'priority safety zones' in areas where the local & state government is sympathetic. Expand zones as required.

8. Rinse, repeat.

N.B. which number we are currently on is left as an exercise to the reader
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:08 PM on November 15, 2016 [3 favorites]

WaPo Fahrenthold: How Bannon flattered and coaxed Trump on policies key to the alt-right. The story analyzes Trump's appearances on Bannon's radio show and Bannon's efforts to frame questions and shape Trump's policy:

In those exchanges, a dynamic emerged, with Bannon often coaxing Trump to agree to his viewpoint, whether on climate change, foreign policy or the need to take on Republican leaders in Congress.

At times, Bannon seemed to coach Trump to soften the harder edges of his message, to make it more palatable to a broader audience, while in other cases he pushed Trump to take tougher positions. He flattered Trump, praising his negotiating skills and the size of his campaign crowds.

The conversations marked a coming-together of Trump, who at the time was a pariah among many top Republicans, and the alt-right, a loosely defined term describing a far-right ideology that includes opposition to immigration and “globalism” and had found a home in the Breitbart News empire. The alt-right movement has also been saturated with white-nationalist rhetoric, prompting criticism of Bannon’s appointment this week, though Bannon has said the movement is not racist.

It includes the time when Bannon framed fighting climate change and ISIS as a binary choice (guess which one Trump picked) and Bannon interrupting Trump to keep him from backing off any of his policies in the name of unity with Ryan. It paints a pretty compelling picture of how this relationship worked in public.
posted by zachlipton at 7:08 PM on November 15, 2016 [10 favorites]

There are55 million people on medicare with another 70 million on medicaid. (Please note that some people have dual enrollment, and some of these are children) which is actually close to the number of Americans who voted in this election.

Basically, messing with it and making them worse off is pretty much political suicide. People panicked about getting insurance, loosing it is a completely different anger and fear.

And people paying more for medicare at a later age will not go over well. Medicaid is struggling to keep providers as is due to outdated/poor reimbursement rates.
posted by AlexiaSky at 7:08 PM on November 15, 2016 [7 favorites]

>transition officials had been informally asking Obama political appointees to recommend Republicans to take over their jobs

>This is the best outcome we could possibly hope for. If they take it seriously, they will name principled Republicans who can stand up to the administration.

Help us out here and name some principled Republicans. I'm sure we will be astonished at who is considered principled.
posted by JackFlash at 7:10 PM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

I fear both the chaos and whatever order might come out of it. I wonder if Trump has met his match in Bannon when it comes to manipulation.

Why do we constatly subject ourselves to the reign of pouty overpriviliged man-babies dancing to the tunes of comic book supervillains.
posted by emjaybee at 7:13 PM on November 15, 2016 [7 favorites]

Alexandra Petri is killing it: Give Steve Bannon a chance. It’s not like he’s literally Joseph Goebbels. (WaPo)
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:18 PM on November 15, 2016 [18 favorites]

Medicaid, as you well know AlexiaSky, is primarily for low-income folks, and it is still new enough not to be a third rail. It may not be evaporated overnight; but as far as I can see, the Ryan administration legislative coalition will, if it can, block-grant it away to the states and then taper off funding. (They want to do the same thing to Medicare, but Medicaid doesn't have AARP. Plus, when Medicare-type recipients protest in the streets, we call it a Tea Party. When Medicaid-type recipients protest in the streets, we call it a riot.)

It is easier to destroy than to build. The United States is about to learn that lesson.

What can we do? As suggested upthread, people have to share their stories about how the ACA has helped them, whether they're a semi-retired cancer survivor with subsidies that helped her afford a pretty decent Silver plan, or a struggling college grad that gets coverage from Medicaid, etc. That's a beginning, though it can't be the end.
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:18 PM on November 15, 2016 [8 favorites]

Frank Gaffney believes that Grover Norquist is working for the Muslim Brotherhood, which is probably the line for CPAC.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 7:18 PM on November 15, 2016 [3 favorites]

Well if there's one thing the Muslim Brotherhood hates it's higher taxes so
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:20 PM on November 15, 2016 [3 favorites]

Heavy Metal magazine just noticed they published a 12-page comic story about Donald Trump in 1990 which, while not prescient about his Presidential aspirations, predicted that he would build A Wall.
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:21 PM on November 15, 2016 [4 favorites]

Very organized process taking place as I decide on Cabinet and many other positions. I am the only one who knows who the finalists are!

Oh geez. He's promoting this like it's the season finale of The Apprentice.

And I'll introduce my very, very great Cabinet at the grand opening of my newest property...[fake]
posted by notyou at 7:21 PM on November 15, 2016 [5 favorites]

He's totally going to fire people on Twitter. I don't mean to make light of the situation or normalize it, but you know this is going to happen.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:23 PM on November 15, 2016 [13 favorites]

He's promoting this like it's the season finale of The Apprentice.

Among all in the media to be blamed, in starting to think NBC/Universal is chief among them, for failing to renew his contract to that show in the first place
posted by Apocryphon at 7:26 PM on November 15, 2016 [4 favorites]

I am the only one who knows who the finalists are!
He's promoting this like it's the season finale of The Apprentice.

I'll bet Mark Burnett is just steaming over this, because Trump made less decisions on The Apprentice than Burnett did.
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:28 PM on November 15, 2016

Republicans are now utterly dependent on the WWC for any sort of election success going forward.

Yeah they've been able to sell some pretty slick lies to the WWC before but it's one thing to pull the football away just as someone is trying to kick the ball and another thing to threaten a fundamental part of the social safety net.

The reality is even if they grandfathered in a bunch of retirees the whole system depends on the generations currently working to support the generations on retirement. Start putting future retirees into a private insurance model and suddenly the current retirees will be burning through the trustfund at a ridiculous rate.

Doing this at a time when the bulk of Boomers are either retiring or very close to retiring and the political pushback will be deafening. Most people haven't budgeted for retirement as is and you want to throw private insurance markets at them?

And let's be honest what sort of insurers are even going to want seniors in their coverage pools? Part of the reason why they make money is that they are largely able to offload the highest cost patients onto Medicare and Medicaid.

The WWC would be utterly fucked by a medicare phaseout and the pushback would be insane on an electoral level. The attack ads pretty much write themselves and you can guarantee that there would be zero bipartisan cover on this type of initiative.

I can't even see why Ryan would even entertain it. It almost seems like a shadow play in order to get the Democrats to budge on something else.
posted by vuron at 7:29 PM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

And NBC/Universal needs to be blamed most for hiring him in the first place. The world be a much better place with "Warren Buffet's The Apprentice".
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:30 PM on November 15, 2016 [11 favorites]

"The finalists." Jesus wept.
posted by the uncomplicated soups of my childhood at 7:30 PM on November 15, 2016 [10 favorites]

Basically, messing with it and making them worse off is pretty much political suicide.


There are a million things that should have been political suicide for Trump and the Republican party this cycle.

There are a large number of voters who will absolutely believe it if the GOP decides to spin it as Obama's fault. Just like they believed Iraq was behind 9/11 and had weapons of mass destruction we should be afraid of. Obamacare killed Medicare. Paul Ryan tried to save it, but it was too late. Only the free market can help. "Keep Government Out of My Medicare."

We live in a country where many people resent it if you even suggest to them that their understanding of Hillary Clinton as a deeply untrustworthy and crooked woman is false. We live in a country full of people who genuinely think Obama did nothing for the working class (hell, some otherwise smart people here on Metafilter seem to swallowed Thomas Frank's assertion that the party hasn't been trying hard to help the working class over the last eight years). We live in a country full of people who, when any social program breaks down, are anxious to say "both sides did it." We live in a country of people who elected Donald Trump president.

We do not live in a country where we can count on the citizens to correctly understand policy issues, or responsibility when it comes to political actors.

And we just handed almost all the levers of power to a Republican Party that does not give any shits for the working class, that will be gleeful as it sacrifices every last thread of the safety net to the interests of people who already have the obscene amount of wealth that is the only true Republican God. And you had better believe those who have so wholly sold their souls to that God will happily, enthusiastically, and craftily bend every last resource they have towards placing the blame elsewhere. And the scary thing is that it might well work as well as it has this election cycle.

I don't mean to sound despairing. I mean to emphasize that this is the political fight of a lifetime (and that's one of the non-nightmare scenarios, I'm assuming we don't actually end up hiding from neo-stasi).

We are not at a place where it's reasonable to be confident common sense will win out.
posted by wildblueyonder at 7:34 PM on November 15, 2016 [48 favorites]

The trouble is, the only mechanism available to the Democrats to have any say at all in the process is the filibuster, and they'll have to use it judiciously it or will be eliminated.

Use it judiciously? You mean don't filibuster so that they can save for when they really need it? Well, that's really dumb. Republicans will be delighted at the cowardice and use it to their advantage. Use it or don't use it but saving it for when you really need it is exactly when Republicans will nuke it.

The moment is now. Day fucking 1. Not even one hour of cooperation. They have to use it immediately, often, for everything, even stuff where compromises could theoretically be envisioned.

Exactly like Republicans would. And did.

They have to show strength and force McConnell's hand. Make him nuke it over something that's not the SCOTUS pick. He really may not actually want to, and that hesitation is weakness to be exploited.

We're beyond good governance now. Obstruction has no downsides. There are no norms, only power, and the Democrat's only remaining power is massive resistance.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:35 PM on November 15, 2016 [30 favorites]

BTW today I had an email exchange with Rick "Dirty Water" Snyder's office re: states supporting an end to electoral college voting.

Spoiler Alert: He thinks it's very suspicious this comes up now.

One can almost hear the Devil saying, "Shit, I've run out of awful things I'll do to these people. Get Lee Atwater in here."
posted by NorthernLite at 7:36 PM on November 15, 2016

Immigration hardliner says Trump team preparing plans for wall, mulling Muslim registry

"An architect of anti-immigration efforts who says he is advising President-elect Donald Trump said the new administration could push ahead rapidly on construction of a U.S.-Mexico border wall without seeking immediate congressional approval.

Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach, who helped write tough immigration laws in Arizona and elsewhere, said in an interview that Trump's policy advisers had also discussed drafting a proposal for his consideration to reinstate a registry for immigrants from Muslim countries."
posted by chris24 at 7:36 PM on November 15, 2016 [2 favorites]

bluecore: "Are ya'll donating to Foster Campbell's campaign for the Dec. 10th Louisiana runoff election?

It's another chance to flip a Senate seat. Act Blue link here."

I just made a donation and I wanted to quote this one more time for visibility. This is important.
posted by erratic meatsack at 7:38 PM on November 15, 2016 [11 favorites]

But medicaid has some pretty big advocates, people with developmental disabilities, deaf and blind populations all get medicaid as well as individuals who have disabilities that make employment difficult which mean they never paid into medicare.

Medicaid is also the stopgap between when one are declared disabled and the 24 month wait until medicare starts (which is its own terrible policy but not for this thread, and there are exceptions to this rule).
posted by AlexiaSky at 7:38 PM on November 15, 2016 [3 favorites]

Reminder that Frank Gaffney was considered insane enough to actually be banned from CPAC.
--@Mobute

@Mobute The bar to get banned from CPAC is like to be cut off from the breadsticks at Olive Garden. I didn't even know it existed.
--@MikeMitchNH

Wikiwikiwiki ... Ah.

CPAC, Inc., the parent company of the Fuller Brush Company and Stanley Home Products

Even more daft than a brush, then.
posted by Joe in Australia at 7:39 PM on November 15, 2016 [2 favorites]

Reporter: The Medicare Revitalization Act of 2017 is blah blah horrible blah

Press Secretary Conway: Well we want to do everything possible to support our seniors and President Trump is committed to making Medicare sustainable, however the Democrats have driven our country's financial situation into the ground and we are all going to have to make shared sacrifices if we are going to live to see America become great again

WWC: boo, fuck the democrats! MAGA!
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:39 PM on November 15, 2016 [4 favorites]

He's totally going to fire people on Twitter.

Well, Giuliani dumped his wife via press conference, so there's kind of precedent.

Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach, who helped write tough immigration laws in Arizona and elsewhere, said in an interview that Trump's policy advisers had also discussed drafting a proposal for his consideration to reinstate a registry for immigrants from Muslim countries."

What the fuck do they think is a Muslim country? The UK? India? What are they going to do about Turkey, which is officially secular but has a Muslim majority? How are they even planning to define that?
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 7:40 PM on November 15, 2016 [10 favorites]

I just made a donation and I wanted to quote this one more time for visibility. This is important.

+1 Just donated as well.
posted by chris24 at 7:40 PM on November 15, 2016 [2 favorites]

But medicaid has some pretty big advocates, people with developmental disabilities, deaf and blind populations all get medicaid as well as individuals who have disabilities that make employment difficult which mean they never paid into medicare.

Medicaid is also the stopgap between when one are declared disabled and the 24 month wait until medicare starts (which is its own terrible policy but not for this thread, and there are exceptions to this rule).

All I can say is, I hope you're right. (BTW, *clears throat*, you should really join the Chicago Cabal at our next meetup...)*

*there is no cabal
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:42 PM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

We are not at a place where it's reasonable to be confident common sense will win out.

Way ahead of you.
posted by bongo_x at 7:42 PM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

I get the sense that Paul Ryan, having heard the story of the Judgment of Solomon, came to the conclusion that actually cutting the baby in half was the right thing to do.
posted by Slothrup at 7:42 PM on November 15, 2016 [30 favorites]

Sshhh... Don't tell them that USA has a significant amount of Muslims born and raised here.
posted by AlexiaSky at 7:42 PM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

> I know this guy, staunch, staunch Republican, real solid conservative, good guy to have in your White House. Now, don't laugh, but he goes by the name "You Can't Tip A Buick" on this website I know...

You know really the thing that would make me a great saboteur is that I'm kind of bad at most real-world tasks.

Maybe call this strategy "civil incompetence."
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 7:43 PM on November 15, 2016 [9 favorites]

How are they even planning to define that?
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious

welp
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:43 PM on November 15, 2016 [21 favorites]

What are they going to do about Turkey, which is officially secular but has a Muslim majority? How are they even planning to define that?

The phrase used by the top Nazis and their predecessors was "I decide who is a Jew."
posted by Joe in Australia at 7:48 PM on November 15, 2016 [7 favorites]

There are no norms, only power, and the Democrat's only remaining power is massive resistance.

Yes, this; this, exactly. We are entering into a new game; the norms and rules are a dead letter if one side refuses to honor them. Democrats should have believed the Republicans when they said this in '08; if they don't believe Trump when he says it now, the country will be destroyed. Force the fascists to make it clear that they are solely responsible for this carnage; resist in the bureaucracies, resist on the floor of Congress, resist in the streets.
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:50 PM on November 15, 2016 [19 favorites]

Eliot A. Cohen, a former State Department official under Rice, who had that tweet yesterday warning people considering jobs in the administration to stay away, has an op-ed: I told conservatives to work for Trump. One talk with his team changed my mind

I sympathize, but the episode has caused me to change my mind about recommending that conservatives serve in the administration, albeit with a firm view in their minds of what would cause them to quit. This was a tipping point. The tenor of the Trump team, from everything I see, read and hear, is such that, for a garden-variety Republican policy specialist, service in the early phase of the administration would carry a high risk of compromising one’s integrity and reputation.
...
My bottom line: Conservative political types should not volunteer to serve in this administration, at least for now. They would probably have to make excuses for things that are inexcusable and defend people who are indefensible. At the very least, they should wait to see who gets the top jobs. Until then, let the Trump team fill the deputy assistant secretary and assistant secretary jobs with civil servants, retired military officers and diplomats, or the large supply of loyal or obsequious second-raters who will be eager to serve. The administration may shake itself out in a year or two and reach out to others who have been worried about Trump. Or maybe not.

posted by zachlipton at 7:52 PM on November 15, 2016 [15 favorites]

The one hope I have is that Trump hates Cruz too much from the convention stunt to actually give him anything.

@JenniferJJacobs
SCOOP: Trump is discussing TED CRUZ for AG
posted by chris24 at 7:55 PM on November 15, 2016

(about Kushner) Probably any son might hold a grudge against Christie.

holy shit what is this insane statement tossed off like it is a thing you would write in an article for humans to read

any son would hold a grudge against his FATHER for the rest of his life. for the awful thing said father did to his aunt, even if he loved crimes as much as his dad did. casual normalizing of Kushner's, what, sociopathy? I don't know what the appropriate word might be. but no this is not something any son would do. as little as I think of him, the Average Man is not this kind of irrational hateful hellbeast. this is something special about Jared Kushner.

I enjoy the persecution of Chris Christie as much as any other thinking breathing person but in order to be understandable it has to be based on something like knowing him or having met him, not him prosecuting an awful criminal who is also your dad. like Christie was supposed to give a fuck about that.
posted by queenofbithynia at 7:59 PM on November 15, 2016 [3 favorites]

This would be a great "Meredith" joke if it wasn't so scary that there's no accountability.
posted by Brainy at 8:06 PM on November 15, 2016 [2 favorites]

@jjmacnab: Oath Keepers claim to have infiltrated Trump protest planning meetings in multiple cities.
posted by Golden Eternity at 8:06 PM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

In my experience with rural Trumpland, it is extremely common to have elderly parents who get sick, go into a nursing home where their tiny bit of money is almost immediately spent down, at which point Medicaid pays for the nursing home for the rest of their life. Most people (read: WWC) are extremely thankful for this system because no one can afford private care, the parents dont have much in the way of savings, anyway, and there are plenty of decent nursing homes all over the place because this is a huge industry. Gutting Medicaid would be a horrendous life-destroyer for working class people with parents in this situation.
posted by gatorae at 8:08 PM on November 15, 2016 [15 favorites]

Is Trump Angling For Jared Kushner To Be Shadow President?
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:12 PM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

I'm starting to understand that "Make America Great Again" actually means "World War II reboot." I mean, there was no medicare or medicaid in the 30's and 40's, right? And in the 50's, people generally checked out by 68, right?

Also, are we still making fun of preppers, or should I just go ahead and buy this skid of MREs?
posted by valkane at 8:14 PM on November 15, 2016 [5 favorites]

Gutting Medicaid would be a horrendous life-destroyer for working class people with parents in this situation.

This describes the entire population of Kentucky where I'm from. End of life care is ruinous. Like 10k a day ruinous. No one can afford it. No one.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:14 PM on November 15, 2016 [4 favorites]

Yeah, I was also going to point out that lots and lots of middle-class families end up using Medicaid for long-term elder care. It might be approaching a third rail.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:14 PM on November 15, 2016 [5 favorites]

Medicare only pays for like the first 100 days in a nursing home, or 100 days after your assets run out, then medicaid kicks in.
posted by AlexiaSky at 8:15 PM on November 15, 2016

I mean, there was no medicare or medicaid in the 30's and 40's, right? And in the 50's, people generally checked out by 68, right?

It's All In The Family -- first time as farce, second time as tragedy.

Guys like us, we had it made / those were the days!
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:16 PM on November 15, 2016

yup. They call it Title 19.
posted by valkane at 8:17 PM on November 15, 2016

> In my experience with rural Trumpland, it is extremely common to have elderly parents who get sick, go into a nursing home where their tiny bit of money is almost immediately spent down, at which point Medicaid pays for the nursing home for the rest of their life. Most people (read: WWC) are extremely thankful for this system because no one can afford private care, the parents dont have much in the way of savings, anyway, and there are plenty of decent nursing homes all over the place because this is a huge industry. Gutting Medicaid would be a horrendous life-destroyer for working class people with parents in this situation.
posted by gatorae at 8:08 PM on November 15 [+] [!]

oh and you know how nursing is a growing field where you can make a solid income?

blam not any more.

actually are there analyses of what cutting Medicaid would do to nursing as a profession?
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 8:17 PM on November 15, 2016

Very organized process taking place as I decide on Cabinet and many other positions. I am the only one who knows who the finalists are!

attorney general comes down to whoever can eat the most bugs in one minute
posted by indubitable at 8:18 PM on November 15, 2016 [15 favorites]

attorney general comes down to whoever can eat the most bugs in one minute

Sam Wang for the win!
posted by valkane at 8:18 PM on November 15, 2016 [8 favorites]

Unfuckingbelievable. Is this story not getting any traction in USA? That WVa mayor deserves no pension. Fucking scum. I certainly hope she has no future career as a public servant. Bigoted scumbag.
posted by Klaxon Aoooogah at 8:19 PM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

Wapo said that those remarks were "controversial." Instead of "insulting" "bigoted" or "hateful." I tweeted my unhappiness with this, perhaps you can too.
posted by emjaybee at 8:21 PM on November 15, 2016 [5 favorites]

Wapo's newer? article says "racist".

I've seen a ton of articles about it in Google News last 2 days, so I think its been getting a fair amount of coverage, but probably buried in the continuing post-election onslaught of Trump stuff.
posted by thefoxgod at 8:23 PM on November 15, 2016 [3 favorites]

to whoever can eat the most bugs in one minute

Given his reputed germophobia and her repeatedly-proved willingness to do unfairly demeaning things for the team (how did she ever manage to be nice in the concession phone call? I couldn't even), I'd be quite happy to have a bug-eating Presidential runoff.
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:23 PM on November 15, 2016 [3 favorites]

God, Trump needs to fill his entire cabinet with Republican Senators.

Please, Obama, recommend (looks) Cassidy from LA, or (looks again) Daines from MT. Or double-secret recommend them by telling him how afraid you are that he'll pick someone so loyal and true and trumpy. Whatever works.

Because see those are places where the governor is Democratic
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:24 PM on November 15, 2016 [7 favorites]

Well that's good thanks thefoxgod!
posted by emjaybee at 8:24 PM on November 15, 2016

James Fallows: 1. For perspective on transition chaos: In “normal” circs, teams have been at work for months. Ready as soon as POTUS-elect recovers from campaign strain, to consider (a) biggest choices to make, in order of urgency; (b) most promising candidates in each Dept; (c) priorities in first 100 days, first year, etc; (d) msgs for other countries; (e) lessons-of-history on opportunities and pitfalls and (f) anything else that can help with the by-definition-overwhelming task of becoming president. Seems to be ZERO of this for DJT. When people who know this world talk about unbelievable, clownish ignorance and incompetence, this is the sort of thing they have in mind
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:25 PM on November 15, 2016 [32 favorites]

In The Event of A Split Between Popular Vote and Electoral College Vote, The Presidential Candidates Will Break The Tie By Completing A Three-Hour Quiz on the Constitution, US History, Current Events, Geography, and Management.

So Say We All.
posted by mochapickle at 8:26 PM on November 15, 2016 [37 favorites]

> Unfuckingbelievable. Is this story not getting any traction in USA? That WVa mayor deserves no pension. Fucking scum. I certainly hope she has no future career as a public servant. Bigoted scumbag.
posted by Klaxon Aoooogah at 8:19 PM on November 15 [+] [!]

Good on the town for getting her to resign, though. tbf that's the only part of the article that surprised me...
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 8:26 PM on November 15, 2016 [2 favorites]

Yeah, it's been as hard to keep up with the relentless tidal wave of shit as it has been to keep up with the waves of nausea. Jesus evergreen christ.
posted by Klaxon Aoooogah at 8:27 PM on November 15, 2016 [4 favorites]

In my experience with rural Trumpland,

That ain't just rural, that's everywhere. That's what Title 19 is. That's how it works. That's what happens to most people when they get old. Unless you planned ahead and have some amazing Long-care insurance, EVERYone goes title 19. In fact, most estate planners suggest it, because hey, you paid into it your whole life... it's an entitlement.

And us poor proles who are still working, well, we're still paying into it. But those Fox News watchers, with their fancy Medicare, and their Title 19, yeah, they just voted you out, friend.
posted by valkane at 8:27 PM on November 15, 2016 [5 favorites]

posted by Klaxon Aoooogah at 8:19 PM on November 15 [+] [!]

Also I just wanted to say that your username is perfectly suited for the times.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 8:27 PM on November 15, 2016 [15 favorites]

guys, and women, I apologize if cracking wise about this is insensitive given the enormity of the situation, but this is literally the first time I've been able to laugh in a week.
posted by indubitable at 8:29 PM on November 15, 2016 [3 favorites]

Are ya'll donating to Foster Campbell's campaign for the Dec. 10th Louisiana runoff election?

It's another chance to flip a Senate seat. Act Blue link here.

I just made a donation and I wanted to quote this one more time for visibility. This is important.

I also just made a donation. And I'm quoting for the same reason.

So many of us are looking for something to do. This is something, and it is one of the somethings that could end up making a crucial difference in preventing or mitigating the damage to existing social safety nets. The narrower the Republican Senate margin is, the more likely it is that any centrist or principled Republican Senators there might be will have leverage in mitigating damage or joining resistance.

If you have money or volunteer effort to give, do it now.
posted by wildblueyonder at 8:29 PM on November 15, 2016 [8 favorites]

I dont think anyone has researched a roll back of medicaid because 1)this has been floated as an idea in the last couple days 2) without concrete policy it is hard to predict what money will come from where and 3)federal matching is a big deal.

Medicaid reimbursement is low already, and generally hospitals, nursing homes and such get by with a mix of private pay, medicare pay (short term stays after surgury etc) and medicaid. Generally they lose money in the medicaid but make it up with private pay and break even on short term stays.

When a nursing home is medicaid only, you'll see lots of things you don't want to because cutting corners in cost and training. It happens and is absolutely disturbing and everyone should be outraged.

Medicaid has its own problems: many providers won't take it, finding specialists is hard, in rural areas there many be significant travel involved. It's prescription plan is funky. Wait times are very high. Some of this was addressed in the ACA but with people being sicker than expected and cost predicted on a per person basis, it really hasn't helped much from what I have seen.

In short: it is very complicated.
posted by AlexiaSky at 8:30 PM on November 15, 2016 [5 favorites]

1. For perspective on transition chaos: In “normal” circs, teams have been at work for months. Ready as soon as POTUS-elect recovers from campaign strain.

Yeah, I'm certainly no insider, but I have always gotten the impression with every preceding administration that they always have all this shit worked out in advance and hit the ground running on post-election Day 1.
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:31 PM on November 15, 2016 [2 favorites]

But Representative Dana Rohrabacher speaks up for Moscow with pride.

That would be the same Dana Rohrabacher who LARPed with the mujahedin.
posted by holgate at 8:32 PM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

Portland Mayor-Elect Says He'll Shield Immigrants From Deportation
posted by chris24 at 8:39 PM on November 15, 2016 [14 favorites]

@BraddJaffy: "We'll get your taxes down—don't worry about it" POTUS-elect Trump tells diners at NYC's 21 Club—via @HallieJackson who made a rez to get in
posted by Golden Eternity at 8:40 PM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

Transition planning starts from the convention, if not sooner. That's the deal when the upper tier of the executive is made up of political appointees and not staffed by what the British call "mandarins", senior civil servants with KCMGs and GCMGs. There are deep problems with the British approach in terms of government reform -- Yes, Minister stuff -- but not in terms of continuity.

Like I said, we're getting to a point where the default revert state of the American republic starts to expose itself, and that state is an 18th-century monarchy and its court.
posted by holgate at 8:45 PM on November 15, 2016 [4 favorites]

Shouldn't Reince Priebus have been doing some of this preparation? Why does he have such a reputation of competence? Fuck, Frum probably makes a good point that Priebus should have blocked Trump's nomination in the first place.

Your prospective future Secretary of State: Meet the Putin-Loving Congressman Who’s Worried About Fluoride In Our Drinking Water
posted by Golden Eternity at 8:49 PM on November 15, 2016 [2 favorites]

Tonight's NYT "this is not normal" story: Firings and Discord Put Trump Transition Team in a State of Disarray

It's mostly things we've already discussed today, but one of the most notable reporters in there is that Trump talked to several foreign leaders without any State Department briefing materials, just getting on the phone and talking, which seems kind of terrifying. Also:

Prominent donors to Mr. Trump were also having little success in recruiting people for rank-and-file posts in his administration.

Rebekah Mercer, the scion of a powerful family of conservative donors and a member of Mr. Trump’s executive transition committee, has said in conversations with Republican operatives and previous administration officials that she was having trouble finding takers for posts at the under secretary level and below, according to a person familiar with her outreach efforts. She told them that the transition team was more than a month behind schedule and on a tight timeline.

This report also adds Justice to the list of agencies standing by the phone waiting for a call from the transition team.
posted by zachlipton at 8:58 PM on November 15, 2016 [9 favorites]

Hah, Gaffney has been trying to accuse Grover Norquist of being tied to the Muslim Brotherhood since 1998, and Glenn Beck actually repeated the accusations on his show.
posted by Golden Eternity at 9:02 PM on November 15, 2016

fantasy headline: Buckle Up America! You Just Gave The Keys to a Man Who Has Never Driven Himself Anywhere!
posted by valkane at 9:04 PM on November 15, 2016 [14 favorites]

Very organized process taking place as I decide on Cabinet and many other positions. I am the only one who knows who the finalists are!


Is it Meat Loaf? Busey?!?
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:04 PM on November 15, 2016 [6 favorites]

At this point what agencies aren't standing by waiting for the call? He's announced 2 White House staff picks ...annnd...? There's been trial balloons all day, all reacted to with varying degrees of horror, and not a single person yet signed on to the new administration outside of the Trump House itself.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:06 PM on November 15, 2016 [2 favorites]

one of the most notable reporters in there is that Trump talked to several foreign leaders without any State Department briefing materials

He spent time with unelected gurning bigot Nigel "Farage" Flange and his tax-dodging spiv funder Arron "Arron" Banks before he had any contact with the UK mission to Washington or Number 10. Flange now asserts that he is a necessary go-between for the UK govt.

People of Opioid County, Wisconsin: you felt humiliated? You elected a fucking numpty.
posted by holgate at 9:07 PM on November 15, 2016 [14 favorites]

Oh yeah, this doesn't win him friends either:

President Abdel Fattah el-Sisi of Egypt was the first to reach Mr. Trump for such a call last Wednesday, followed by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel not long afterward. But that was about 24 hours before Prime Minister Theresa May of Britain got through — a striking break from diplomatic practice given the close alliance between the United States and Britain.

I have absolutely zero foreign policy experience and even I know that you talk to the PM well before you start chatting with Egypt. And, of course, you don't talk to any of them until you have some idea who they are and what you're talking about.
posted by zachlipton at 9:11 PM on November 15, 2016 [12 favorites]

Ben Carson, who ran for nomination as the Republican candidate for President, has turned down the position of Secretary of HHS, saying "Dr. Carson feels he has no government experience; he's never run a federal agency. The last thing he would want to do was take a position that could cripple the presidency." [real]

I was sitting at my desk at work this morning when I read this story. I held my head in my hands and laughed and laughed and laughed these sick, helpless belly laughs because the immediate alternative was to cry and cry and cry in exhaustion of this fucking year.
posted by vespertine at 9:11 PM on November 15, 2016 [28 favorites]

it's all going to end up as blood relations anyway. eric at secdef, donald jr as chief of staff, ivanka at secretary of state, etc. maybe throw a curve ball and appoint some ex-wives, or maybe omarosa for secretary of labor.
posted by indubitable at 9:12 PM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

Fuck it. I'm applying. #maga
posted by ocschwar at 9:17 PM on November 15, 2016 [17 favorites]

Maybe he'll just throw out the regular departments and make new ones -- Secretary of Taxes, Secretary of Media, Secretary of BLM Land Distribution, Secretary of Nuclear.
posted by mochapickle at 9:17 PM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

Very Organized Process? Yes, I keep my 3 x 5 cards right here, by my left hand. I don't read them, but they are right there, in case I need them. I also have a very nice mirror, 32 carat, just gorgeous, let me tell you. It's very nice. My wife? Yes, she's young, gorgeous, it was expensive, let me tell you. Very Expensive stuff. Who? Attorney General? I dunno, probably the best, yes, Jared can tell you, his voice is really nice. I can listen to him talk about my daughter for days. Secretary of State? Really, a great guy, ask Bannon, yes. The best. I never sleep, did I mention that? I ZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz, I'm sorry, what? Yes. I approve that message.
posted by valkane at 9:17 PM on November 15, 2016 [5 favorites]

I was sitting at my desk at work this morning when I read this story. I held my head in my hands and laughed and laughed and laughed these sick, helpless belly laughs because the immediate alternative was to cry and cry and cry in exhaustion of this fucking year.

oh, those things somewhere between a laugh and a scream? i didn't know i made those noises until last week.
posted by indubitable at 9:17 PM on November 15, 2016 [7 favorites]

Secretary of The Cyber. Secretary of Texas.
posted by rp at 9:20 PM on November 15, 2016 [7 favorites]

As an anthropologist, I can't move on.

"The purpose of Anthropology is to make the world safe for human difference - Ruth Benedict"

I chose Nisa: The Life and Words of a !Kung Woman by Marjorie Shostak. A classic, the work chronicles years in the life of a female member of a southern African hunter-gatherer tribe. It was a safe choice, I thought, and fit in well with the themes of the course. But during the class discussion, a 20-something white male, a guy who always had opinions about everything, offered simply: "Nisa is a whore. She has multiple partners. Leaves one guy for another. She's nothing but a dirty whore."

posted by Rumple at 9:21 PM on November 15, 2016 [11 favorites]

Twitter suspends alt-right accounts

Twitter suspended a number of accounts associated with the alt-right movement, the same day the social media service said it would crack down on hate speech.

Among those suspended was Richard Spencer, who runs an alt-right think tank and had a verified account on Twitter.

Twitter on Tuesday removed Spencer's verified account, @RichardBSpencer, that of his think tank, the National Policy Institute @npiamerica, and his online magazine @radixjournal.
posted by triggerfinger at 9:23 PM on November 15, 2016 [18 favorites]

WHY I VOTED FOR TRUMP

Depressing.
posted by Golden Eternity at 9:23 PM on November 15, 2016 [4 favorites]

Trump voters are assholes, but could we maybe not make fun of communities for suffering through rates of opiate addiction sufficient to call a public health crisis? I promise you that there's enough to criticize them for without laughing at people for watching their friends and family kill themselves slowly with oxycodone.
posted by Copronymus at 9:28 PM on November 15, 2016 [12 favorites]

Yes, ridiculing and heaping scorn upon the petit bourgeois worked out so well in Central Europe in the '30s
posted by Apocryphon at 9:30 PM on November 15, 2016

I guess Lena Dunham is now our national symbol of everything young coastal millennial women should be deeply ashamed of, but I gotta say, today's Lenny Letter was excellent, particularly this article:

When people told me they hated Hillary Clinton or (far worse) that they were "not fans," I wish I had said in no uncertain terms: "I love Hillary Clinton. I am in awe of her. I am set free by her. She will be the finest world leader our galaxy has ever seen." I wish, in those exchanges, I had not asked gentle, tolerant questions about a hater's ridiculous allergy to her, or Clinton's fictional misdeeds and imagined character flaws. ... If only one reporter — they knew about us — could have published a headline like "Clinton Inspires Historic Levels of Adoration From Her Supporters" about the people who have had their lives transformed by the power of her brilliant campaign, unrivaled effectiveness, and extraordinary career. Just one headline like that, like the ones Bill Clinton got.

There is also a link to this Survival Guide for Lives Affected by Trump (Google doc).

This one org I volunteer with pushes something called the Presidential Volunteer Service Award, where you can get a letter signed by the president thanking you for your service if you volunteer more than 100 hours in a given year with the same org. (One guy in particular would always joke about hoping it would be a good signature while giving the spiel earlier in the year, and then stopped, when it stopped being funny.) One of my friends posted a sad Facebook update today with a picture of her last letter signed by Obama, and I got to thinking... This org sends volunteers to various projects, and most of my volunteering through them is with the food bank or a local homeless organization, both of which I've vowed to continue since San Francisco is a sanctuary city and may lose its federal funding under a Trump presidency (which means low-income and homeless people will likely suffer). Maybe I would like Trump to personally thank me for my work in resisting the destruction his presidency will cause in my local community. Eh? 100 hours is a lot, but I might try for it.

I kind of feel like this belongs in the Grief and Coping MeTa thread, it fits it better in tone, but what the hell, I don't mind breaking up the horrorshow of cabinet appointments with some action. I'd love to hear of anything else you all are doing, too, because sooner or later I'm going to run out of stuff to keep busy with and jump off a cliff or something. (I'm going to call Paul Ryan's jerk ass again tomorrow, with stronger language.)
posted by sunset in snow country at 9:30 PM on November 15, 2016 [13 favorites]

Twitter suspends alt-right accounts

Twitter suspended a number of accounts associated with the alt-right movement, the same day the social media service said it would crack down on hate speech.

Among those suspended was Richard Spencer, who runs an alt-right think tank and had a verified account on Twitter.

Twitter on Tuesday removed Spencer's verified account, @RichardBSpencer, that of his think tank, the National Policy Institute @npiamerica, and his online magazine @radixjournal.

I'll glady pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today.
posted by rp at 9:30 PM on November 15, 2016 [7 favorites]

WHY I VOTED FOR TRUMP

Started to click, and then stopped. I don't need to read that. I don't need to see another cluster of corrupt dynasty Benghazi email babble, followed by dying dream health care costs outsider shake-em-up plain talk babble.

At this point, I have no fucks to give anyone who voted for the president-elect. None. Don't care why, unless it was an honest, "I don't see very well and my son who was holding the ballot for me swore the name next to that dot was Hillary's." I could maybe think, "oh, maybe we need to understand why, so we can reach out better next time..." there's not going to be a next time, not like this. He's going to do his incompetent narcissistic best to destroy the entire structure of government, and the sycophants who want to ride the wave of adulation and/or enjoy torturing people less privileged than themselves are going to help him.

I will happily eat several bugs if, by this time next year, jobs are up, incomes are up, medical coverage is better for those living in poverty, and we are safer from international attack. Unless those happen... those who voted for him have earned nothing but outright contempt for those of us who were paying attention and acted with some shred of empathy for our fellow human beings.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 9:30 PM on November 15, 2016 [37 favorites]

WHY I VOTED FOR TRUMP

I've kinda been monitoring 4chan. Okay, yeah, I'm scum and I hang out in /k/. Okay, yeah, you can hate me, but I'm a Kentucky boy that has never voted republican. But I'm an expert when it comes to guns, boats and power saws. Judge as you will.

You know what I think? I think if a democrat will come out and say "Everbody gets an AR-15!" They would win. They would win hands down. BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT ALL THOSE WHITE BOYS WERE WORRIED ABOUT.

Gun Laws. It's America.

I know this is problematic, but it's true.
posted by valkane at 9:33 PM on November 15, 2016 [10 favorites]

Hypothetically, if he's actually incompetent, like, Wilson after the stroke level incompetent, he could be impeached. There are mechanisms. We could have President Pence in a year. I mean, that's obviously horrible, but it's not, "there's a old man who can't read or make rational decisions in charge of the nuclear codes" horrible.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:35 PM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

He could be impeached without being incompetent. Congress doesn't have any rules about why they can impeach - it's just really, really hard to get the necessary votes for "the president is impeached for wearing blue on a Tuesday."
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 9:36 PM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

I promise you that there's enough to criticize them for without laughing at people for watching their friends and family kill themselves slowly with oxycodone.

I'm not laughing. I'm just noting who they voted for and vote for and will continue to vote for. Meth counties vs. crack counties is a thing in NC. I am not onboard with Chris Arnade's addiction-tourism "exquisite dignity of the percocet class" narrative. I think it's a fucking shit situation, and the way you deal with it is literally throwing money at the problem, and those fucking counties still vote for small govt and low taxes and assuming that someone will show up and do something when their drug-addled cousin grabs the family shotgun and threatens to take out everyone.
posted by holgate at 9:42 PM on November 15, 2016 [5 favorites]

valkane You know what I think? I think if a democrat will come out and say "Everbody gets an AR-15!" They would win. They would win hands down. BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT ALL THOSE WHITE BOYS WERE WORRIED ABOUT.

Here's what I don't understand: I come from rural farmland ohio. Which, when it comes to industrial work, all stems from FDR/WWII shit. Yeah, people have guns. Mostly like .22 rifles. Groundhogs and squirrels, deer, and sometimes coyotes. No one there, that I know (granted, that's limited at this point to relatives) has that in the like top 5 concerns. And there are certainly people I don't know who have big mean guns for whatever reason. It's just such a straight-up WTF kind of reaction that when everyone, including HRC at the convention, says "We're not going to take your guns away" what the fuck else do people need to hear? We have lived through so fucking many mass shootings. But that has to be OK. One unreachable person with an AR-15 can kill scores of families' children, and that's supposed to be OK.

I just don't fucking get it.
posted by rp at 9:49 PM on November 15, 2016 [5 favorites]

I'll go back to the New Balance thing. I bought a pair of union-made Red Wings a couple of years ago. They cost a lot of money. Middle-class money. But I'm a person who doesn't buy many pairs of shoes and who values good shoes made by good shoemakers. (Vimes' theory applies.) When doing so, I was very aware that the American populace has decided that shoes should cost less than $50 a pair at the Discount Shoe Barn and be thrown away within a couple of years, which is not compatible with Americans making shoes that sell for $350 and last as long as you care for them to last.
posted by holgate at 9:53 PM on November 15, 2016 [3 favorites]

As a side note, the language-scrambling part of my brain sometimes sees the title of this post as "the nation that destroys itself soils itself" which is also true.

I just realized that's not what it said and searched to see if anyone else thought that.
posted by bongo_x at 9:53 PM on November 15, 2016 [3 favorites]

When owning guns matters more to someone than not voting for a xenophobic misogynist, I think we've lost the empathy battle.
posted by erratic meatsack at 9:54 PM on November 15, 2016 [13 favorites]

WTF kind of reaction that when everyone, including HRC at the convention, says "We're not going to take your guns away" what the fuck else do people need to hear?

Well, first of all, they need to hear THAT. I'm guessing they didn't, because EMAILS.

Second of all, state laws are making shit that people already own illegal. Or they grandfather it in, and you can't buy the stuff anymore. New York's SAFE act is something that is, well, not good.

Look, I'll just say this right out: I know most folk on metafilter are anti-gun, and I believe that background checks and such are a best practices way to go. I don't want to derail on a gun rights thingy, but I can guarantee that if a democratic presidential nominee comes out gun positive, they will win. That's it. That's how Trump won.
posted by valkane at 9:56 PM on November 15, 2016 [4 favorites]

WHY I VOTED FOR TRUMP

Erin Keefe
22 years old • Manchester, N.H.

I am white, I am a woman, I am pro-choice, I am educated, and I voted for Donald Trump. The government needs to be run like a corporation, simple as that. Of course humanitarian issues are of concern to me, as they are to every American. His degrading language toward women bothers me, and his views on global warming are a problem for me. I do not 100 percent love Trump, but I am convinced he can lead this nation. I was part of the silent majority. My friends would bash those who leaned toward Trump and comment on how insane, uneducated and racist his supporters were. I was afraid to speak my mind because of the possibility it might hurt my reputation socially and professionally. I respect everyone’s opinion and vote, and it’s wrong to be ridiculed for supporting someone you have a right to support. I scrolled through my Facebook page on Election Day personally hurt. Friends accused Trump supporters of not loving them because they are gay, a woman, a person of color or an immigrant. My stomach dropped knowing what might happen if someone found out that I supported him and that they thought I did not love them for that. I voted for Donald Trump because he can create change for our country, economy and world.
posted by philip-random at 9:57 PM on November 15, 2016 [2 favorites]

Maybe they can impeach him in the House, but can they get the two-thirds majority required for conviction in the Senate?
posted by kirkaracha at 9:57 PM on November 15, 2016

Bless your heart, Erin Keefe.
posted by erratic meatsack at 9:58 PM on November 15, 2016 [28 favorites]

change for our country, economy and world.

Wasn't this Obama's platform?
posted by valkane at 10:00 PM on November 15, 2016

Erin Keefe voted Trump because people told her not to. A shit load of people did the same thing.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:03 PM on November 15, 2016 [23 favorites]

Samantha Styler: 21 years old • Gilbert, Ariz.

I am a gay millennial woman and I voted for Donald Trump because I oppose the political correctness movement, which has become a fascist ideology of silence and ignorance.

How do you even shape a campaign to accommodate such people? This is a fucking advert for Chinese market totalitarianism.
posted by holgate at 10:05 PM on November 15, 2016 [25 favorites]

the people who want guns specifically to kill leopards and lions and elephants

No, the white boys who build AR-15s are like the white girls who dress their Barbies. It's a hobby. One they feel entitled to. Due to the constitution. Fringed flag or no.
posted by valkane at 10:07 PM on November 15, 2016 [2 favorites]

I'll try again: "gun positive" in this particular context is "let's go somewhere exotic and kill some endangered species" -- Junior was advocating this on his travels -- which is fundamentally abhorrent and has nothing to do with gun policy.
posted by holgate at 10:07 PM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

On the plus side, apparently many Trump voters will get to personally experience the hobnailed boot of Bannon and his pals. So there's that schadenfreude to look forward to.
posted by aramaic at 10:12 PM on November 15, 2016

No, holgate, The folks who build these rifles shoot targets. They don't hunt exotic species. They want to be The Shooter, or Matt Damon or some shit. They could give a shit about exotic animals. You gotta be a millionaire to hunt that shit, and these boys listen to country music. They just want to drink beer, customize their rifles, and place a group inside a 50 cent piece. It's marksmenship. It's craft. Even building the rifle is craft. DIY. They ain't fucking hunting elephants.
posted by valkane at 10:12 PM on November 15, 2016 [9 favorites]

I don't want to derail on a gun rights thingy, but I can guarantee that if a democratic presidential nominee comes out gun positive, they will win. That's it. That's how Trump won.

Unintentional ex post pro-Sanders comment spotted.

How do you even shape a campaign to accommodate such people? This is a fucking advert for Chinese market totalitarianism.

It could be that a lot of these are either fake entries, or vocal outliers. Like the anti-radical Islamism Trump-voting Muslims, surely they exist in some number (and there are Muslims who despise Hillary for the militaristic aspects of her foreign policy while at State).

Then again, I know at least one Desi family in Oklahoma who voted for Trump for anti-illegal immigration reasons. Bitter legal immigrants who despise undocumented people who did not go through their experiences- Latino or not- are definitely real, and some voted for Trump.

The gay female millennial who's anti-PC is probably just some #NotYourShield maiden. A reactionary internet troll.
posted by Apocryphon at 10:12 PM on November 15, 2016 [2 favorites]

valkane Like this?

There are too many issues that determined this election. I'm super not pointing to that as the determining factor, just saying that among those from the vaunted "white working class" people I know, it just isn't a factor, except when it comes to crazyfuck people who set out to shoot classrooms because they look like easy targets. And we really, really, don't want that.
posted by rp at 10:13 PM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

We could have President Pence in a year. I mean, that's obviously horrible, but it's not, "there's a old man who can't read or make rational decisions in charge of the nuclear codes" horrible.

I don't entirely disagree, but I think people are forgetting the biggest strike against Pence, something arguably worse than all his policies (which are, to be sure, terrible): he signed up to have his name right under Donald Trump's. He took a look at this man and his campaign back in July and said "sign me up for this." And then he sat there on that debate stage and repeatedly pretended like he had never met or listened to his running mate say anything.

Given these examples of his decision-making skills, I'd be pretty concerned about that outcome too.
posted by zachlipton at 10:14 PM on November 15, 2016 [17 favorites]

Oh hai all. Guess what? My little rural Canadian town is experiencing minor political earthquake because hey Trump and Trumpism is a disease. Ends up that our Conservative MP at one point said he agreed with Trump and is now apparently 100% behind Conservative Party leader Candidate Kellie Leitch who expressed joy at Trump's election and thinks we need Trumpism here.

So now I guess I get to find out what all my fellow riding people really think and they will get to hear what I really think because I sure as hell am not going to sit back a do nothing. And what's really super duper extra awesome is that in one of my volunteer jobs, as a board member I have to share a stage with him and be all nicey nice and all civic minded and whatnot. Guess what's not going to happen unless he backs down from this bullshit.

Normalization. I refuse to be a part of it.

I am NOT a happy camper.
posted by Jalliah at 10:15 PM on November 15, 2016 [32 favorites]

"there's a old man who can't read or make rational decisions in charge of the nuclear codes" horrible.

IF it were only just illiteracy and dementia! I could live with that. I survived ray-gun.

Every time I see a Trump Supporter, I think, "There's someone who didn't think the legitimate questions about Donald J. Trump raping a 13 year old girl are a show-stopper".

Then I throw up a little.
posted by mikelieman at 10:16 PM on November 15, 2016 [9 favorites]

No, holgate, The folks who build these rifles shoot targets. They don't hunt exotic species.

You're missing the point. Is there any evidence that [future white house occupant] has ever fired a gun? His adult boykids shoot endangered species, and Junior came round here talking about deer-shootin' to the local yokels, but what Junior really wants is to take out some rare sheep with a crossbow, because you know how ferocious rare sheep are.

This is all fable and bullshit, and the people who buy it are gullible idiots, and I have not much fucking time for gullible idiots.
posted by holgate at 10:18 PM on November 15, 2016

On the bright side, 20,000 people have donated to Planned Parenthood in Mike Pence's name since the election. That's 12.5% of all donations since the election.

If you want to donate, the address is here.
posted by zachlipton at 10:19 PM on November 15, 2016 [6 favorites]

This is all fable and bullshit

It's cool, and I think really we're on the same page,
posted by valkane at 10:22 PM on November 15, 2016

Bitter legal immigrants who despise undocumented people who did not go through their experiences- Latino or not- are definitely real, and some voted for Trump.

I'm sure these people exist, but I'm also sure that they're in the extreme minority. I have played immigrant on easy level, and I know how "easy level" is a fucking shitscape, but it takes something extra to warp you to the idea that the people doing the shittiest jobs in the American economy while living in the shadows are somehow going to benefit from a process that finally gets them into the bureaucracy.
posted by holgate at 10:22 PM on November 15, 2016

Mummy, what do you mean when you talk about man-babies weeping hot, salty man-tears?

– Why, darling, just look at Robert Spencer's reaction to being kicked off Twitter:

"This is corporate Stalinism," Spencer told The Daily Caller News Foundation. In a YouTube video, entitled Knight of the Long Knives, an apparent reference to the purge of Nazi leaders in 1934 to consolidate Adolf Hitler's power, Spencer said Twitter had engaged in a coordinated effort to wipe out alt-right Twitter.

"I am alive physically but digitally speaking there has been execution squads across the alt right," he said.

He wants you to know that he's alive physically. But, in a very real sense he feels that he's dead, just like Ernst Röhm or Gregor Strasser.
posted by Joe in Australia at 10:23 PM on November 15, 2016 [20 favorites]

I'm starting to think that we should scale back massively on the Peace Corps and transfer those resources to Americorps, because parts of this country can use all of the humanitarian aid they can get, and greater mutual understanding with the nation at large.
posted by Apocryphon at 10:23 PM on November 15, 2016 [7 favorites]

I am actually worried the Apricot Demagogue will kill the Peace Corps.
posted by suelac at 10:26 PM on November 15, 2016 [2 favorites]

Yeah, I recognize that my idea would have been most useful... generations ago.
posted by Apocryphon at 10:27 PM on November 15, 2016 [4 favorites]

It's kind of awesome that there's already this much resistance on so many fronts — twitter noping away from the alt-right, mayors vowing to keep their cities as sanctuary cities, a measure of recognition from congressional democrats w/r/t Bannon...
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 10:29 PM on November 15, 2016 [10 favorites]

Yeah, I recognize that my idea would have been most useful... generations ago.

"Healing The World" has been going on for 5777 years by my calendar, and will be needed long after we're all memories.
posted by mikelieman at 10:29 PM on November 15, 2016 [7 favorites]

(continued) So, there's nothing wrong in beating the drum to remind us now-and-again..
posted by mikelieman at 10:29 PM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

I don't want to derail on a gun rights thingy, but I can guarantee that if a democratic presidential nominee comes out gun positive, they will win.

So after eight years of Obama not coming after people's guns, Hillary Clinton said this in her acceptance speech:

I’m not here to repeal the Second Amendment.

I’m not here to take away your guns.

I just don’t want you to be shot by someone who shouldn’t have a gun in the first place.

We should be working with responsible gun owners to pass common-sense reforms and keep guns out of the hands of criminals, terrorists and all others who would do us harm.

For decades, people have said this issue was too hard to solve and the politics were too hot to touch.

But I ask you: How can we just stand by and do nothing?

You heard, you saw, family members of people killed by gun violence.

You heard, you saw, family members of police officers killed in the line of duty because they were outgunned by criminals.

I refuse to believe we can’t find common ground here.

What else was she supposed to do?
posted by kirkaracha at 10:30 PM on November 15, 2016 [52 favorites]

I gotta say, though, watching the worst possible president, stumble towards his four years, well, did NBC buy the rights to this?
posted by valkane at 10:33 PM on November 15, 2016

because parts of this country can use all of the humanitarian aid they can get, and greater mutual understanding with the nation at large.

I'd be massively in favour of sending people from coastal cities to Do Good Stuff in Bumfuck, and from Bumfuck to coastal cities. Except that I think the reception would differ vastly. I think vets like corb and others here would be useful commenters on the way that the US military has historically dragged a nation that's barely a nation together.
posted by holgate at 10:35 PM on November 15, 2016 [2 favorites]

A good step to a greater mutual understanding is to not refer to a large part of the nation as Bumfuck.
posted by airish at 10:43 PM on November 15, 2016 [19 favorites]

Erin Keefe didn't vote for Trump because people told her not to. Nothing in her paragraph says that. She lays out her rationale herself: she says that she feels that the government should be run like a corporation, and that Trump represented change, etc. She kept quiet and dug in her heels when she felt that "it might hurt my reputation socially and professionally" to confess to being a Trump supporter. I have no interest in defending her political choices as choices, but the dynamic at play is something to consider.

Then again, I know at least one Desi family in Oklahoma who voted for Trump for anti-illegal immigration reasons. Bitter legal immigrants who despise undocumented people who did not go through their experiences- Latino or not- are definitely real, and some voted for Trump.

Yes, this. A few of my in-laws are Chinese immigrants who are enthusiastically pro-Trump. They saw Trump as representing strength, business acumen, independence from traditional political machinery, and so on. Most voted for Clinton - some vocally voted for Trump - and at least one in-law grumpily abstained from the Presidential election, for the first time since getting citizenship.

Not that there's a big Chinese contingent of Trump voters, but more specifically that Trump's message was much broader, more appealing, and more protean than some people are willing to admit. Team Clinton's messaging to the various Hispanic communities was frequently tone-deaf, focusing far too much on Trump's immigration policies, as if that was the only thing Hispanic people could possibly care about.

I'm sure these people exist, but I'm also sure that they're in the extreme minority.

I wouldn't be so sure. I have met (and been related to) so many immigrants who shit on other immigrants and who are in one way or another actually quite conservative, and not just in a so-called Old World sense.

...

I'd be massively in favour of sending people from coastal cities to Do Good Stuff in Bumfuck, and from Bumfuck to coastal cities.

it's like i'm watching states turn red all over again
posted by Sticherbeast at 10:44 PM on November 15, 2016 [12 favorites]

I am actually worried the Apricot Demagogue will kill the Peace Corps.

He'd have to notice it exists first.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 10:47 PM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

My mom is one of those immigrants who shits on other immigrants. She also works with legal and illegal immigrants in her field (medicine, though not as a healthcare provider), so there is constant exposure to different people and their plights. It hasn't done a damn thing to change her mind on us-vs-them.

I hope this mentality isn't prevalent but it sure as hell is out there.
posted by erratic meatsack at 10:53 PM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

I don't think they're the ones bringing Trump and others like him over the electoral threshold, but it's not an uncommon phenomenon.

And they're not even in the U.S., they're Canadian!
posted by Apocryphon at 10:56 PM on November 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

she feels that the government should be run like a corporation, and that Trump represented change, etc.
Anyone whose knowledge of business is more than "The Trump Show" would know that he will run the government into bankruptcy and take home a big payday for himself. I've never really considered him as much a potential fascist than a potential kleptocrat. He'll empower plenty of other fascists and fascist-types, but mostly out of the belief that they will "make the trains run on time" while he collects the fares and puts them in his own pocket. But in all the kleptocrats I've seen in recent history, none has gotten as big an economy to suck dry, yet none have been so incompetent that they couldn't run a profitable casino.
posted by oneswellfoop at 11:10 PM on November 15, 2016 [38 favorites]

A Tool Kit for Sleuthing Out Medicare Phaseout

A lot of you have been writing in that you've contacted members of the House and Senate and they simply refuse to tell you how their bosses will vote on Paul Ryan's Medicare Phaseout plan. They've never heard of it; there's no bill; the boss doesn't have a position yet. Yada yada yada. Here's something that will help. There is a plan. In fact, there's a bill. And virtually every member of the House at least has voted on it. The Ryan Medicare Phaseout proposal is part of the Ryan budget which has been voted on in the House every year since 2011.
...
The budget passed by a vote of 219 to 208. All 219 were Republicans, all but 26 members of the GOP caucus. Did your Rep vote for it? Easy enough to find out. Here's the roll call. For all 219 of them, they've already voted for the plan. They know about it because they voted for it. So no one can wriggle out of saying they don't know about it or there's no plan or they haven't announced a position yet. They already voted for it - at least if they're among the 219 who voted for it.

posted by kirkaracha at 11:15 PM on November 15, 2016 [33 favorites]

Here's a fact that makes me want to stab myself! 112 protesters were arrested at the anti-Trump protests in Portland over the last couple days. Records show that only 25 of them actually voted.

Good job guys, you really have your priorities straight.
posted by Justinian at 11:22 PM on November 15, 2016 [32 favorites]

Justinian, I just wonder how many of those were the "anarchists" that showed up and turned things violent & destructive? I was in the hospital with my partner during these protests so I really don't know how things went other than accounts on social media and local news coverage, but here's how I'm interpreting these stories.

The stories I've read say that they checked if those 112 protestors were registered to vote in OR, and 23 of them were not registered here, so we don't know if they voted because that wasn't investigated. 4 of them were under 18 so were not eligible. I wish headlines, at the very least, reflect that we only know of 85 arrested protestors who didn't vote, not 112.

These stories seem to be trying to make the stories into "protestors didn't even vote!" but this isn't the case. 4,000 people protested in Portland. Or maybe more, but that was the count at one protest. 112 people were arrested, so 2.83% of people who were protesting were arrested, and of them, about 30% voted in Oregon. It's been verified that a separate group, not affiliated with the protestors showed up basically to smash shit. If you call yourself an anarchist, you probably didn't vote, so I dunno, this doesn't seem like that outrageous of a story.

I mean, I'm disgusted by people who didn't vote as well. I'm disgusted by people who did vote, even with some people who voted for Hillary, so don't count me out for being disgusted with people right now. But these stories about protestors not participating in democracy are misleading and being spun by the right as proof that there's some organization trucking in paid protestors. It's bullshit. I'm not going to say that each of those 85 people had a valid excuse not to vote ("and some of them, I imagine, are decent people") but this isn't a smoking gun. This is an effort to make the resistance movement look to be made up a bunch of whiny losers.

I wish the media was telling the story about the 97% of protestors who likely did vote and tell stories about how much these people have to lose with this presidency. About how scared we are, about how the increased harassment people have been feeling already and we're not even officially into Trump's term yet.
posted by the thorn bushes have roses at 11:59 PM on November 15, 2016 [27 favorites]

Records show that only 25 of them actually voted.

I thought voter suppression was a whole thing as well.
posted by Coda Tronca at 12:45 AM on November 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

Israeli politics is pretty murky, but to the extent that there's any Israeli support for Trump it's anti-Likud, or at least anti-Netanyahu.

I think Likud and Netanyahu is pretty much pro-GOP/Trump perhaps not as enthusiastically as the annexation wing you talked about but definitely in the sense that the Netanyahu govt will feel that it has a much better position for any further negotiations/talks where the US is involved.

And Putin has already started upping the offensive in Syria, his newest aircraft carrier just arrived off the coast which nearly doubles the number of aircraft he has operating in the area now.
posted by PenDevil at 12:58 AM on November 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

Bitter legal immigrants who despise undocumented people who did not go through their experiences- Latino or not- are definitely real, and some voted for Trump.

Hey, I didn't know you knew my family! (she says bitterly)
posted by corb at 1:07 AM on November 16, 2016 [10 favorites]

After getting caught up, some things that caught my attention.

Trump is trying to get Kushner in on the daily briefings? Kushner the newspaper publisher?

If Bannon gets the boot, how will that go for Kushner as the power behind the throne? Isn't that the exact kind of dynamic the anti-Semitic forces are always imagining and Bannon would surely play that up if things go badly for him.

Guns and immigrants are the two biggest concerns from most of the Trump supporting guys I run into that aren't evangelicals. For that latter group, it's evil Hillary and god favored Republicans, and not much more than that.

Pence ditched the lobbyists? He must have a more personal agenda, one probably close to that of his tenure in Indiana, so I'm guessing he's taking a lot of the domestic policy as his domain. While the others are fighting over foreign "policy", immigration, and other more exciting hot button topics
posted by gusottertrout at 1:18 AM on November 16, 2016

Oh, and talk of white humiliation is just a different way to spin talking about white pride and white fragility, the problem is that feeling empathy for them isn't going to be shared by them for the plight of others. So appealing to white pride doesn't carry the same effect as talking about national issues that might also harm minorities to those voters. Democrats trying to run as Republicans in a national election run into problems as their base is filled with a lot of self-pride people who will be turned off by appeals that aren't enunciated in ways that match the truth as they see it. Clinton ran into this a bit in this election and that problem isn't going away by the next one.
posted by gusottertrout at 1:33 AM on November 16, 2016 [6 favorites]

I think Likud and Netanyahu is pretty much pro-GOP/Trump perhaps not as enthusiastically as the annexation wing you talked about but definitely in the sense that the Netanyahu govt will feel that it has a much better position for any further negotiations/talks where the US is involved.

That only makes sense if you think that talks with the Palestinians are the most significant thing in Israeli politics. Israel faces threats on several fronts, but the most consistent one is Iran, via its proxy Hezbollah. It cannot possibly have escaped Netanyahu's notice that Trump is (a) a nativist who has already announced his desire to withdraw from far more solid and substantial mutual-aid treaties, like NATO; (b) best buds with Putin, who is enabling Iran's move into Syria; (c) an unreliable wildcard. And that's leaving the antisemitic advisors out of the equation.

Given all that, he's undoubtedly aware that the USA under Trump cannot be relied upon to have Israel's back - I frankly don't know if Obama or Bush would have been reliable, but anyway. And we do know from Wikileaks that Netanyahu and Clinton got on pretty well, much better than Netanyahu and Obama. So right now, Netanyahu's probably wondering what would happen if (e.g.) Russia totally interdicted Syrian airspace to Israeli planes, and Hezbollah or associated troops started firing missiles over the border. Start a ground war with no Israeli air defense? And what if Russia turns up the anti-aircraft system so it covers Israeli airspace, too?

Anyway, we know what Netanyahu's public reponse to Trump has been: a generic welcome, together with a plea to other Israeli politicians to not make this more difficult than it is.
posted by Joe in Australia at 2:23 AM on November 16, 2016

Firstly I agree with your comments in regard to Putin/Syria. Anecdotally from my own interactions with "right wing" Israel supporters (both those living Israel and locally) they seem to base their support of Trump on his projected dealing with "terrorists" (in their mind being Hamas and the Fatah) as well as their extreme dislike of Obama. Add in the smattering of anti-Clinton faux scandals and regular Fox News viewership and they were virtually throwing confetti on FB the morning after the elections.
posted by PenDevil at 2:46 AM on November 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

Yeah, a strong Putin is not good for Israel in any way, and Netanyahu knows it.
posted by Mchelly at 3:08 AM on November 16, 2016

Add in the smattering of anti-Clinton faux scandals and regular Fox News viewership and they were virtually throwing confetti on FB the morning after the elections.

Yeah, I totally can't understand the triumphalism. In fact my wife has a very good friend in the US who was all CORRUPT HILLARY and EMAILS!!! and so forth. A nice lady, Jewish, from what I know of her background is very liberal, works in a hospital so probably interacts with a wide range of people. But ... I looked at her Facebook stuff, it was like she was living in a bubble. It wasn't "Well, I weighed everything up, and even though he's a foul-mouthed grabbart, I supported Trump for 'reasons'"; it was YES WE WON JUSTICE HAS BEEN DONE.
posted by Joe in Australia at 3:12 AM on November 16, 2016 [3 favorites]

Piketty: "Let it be said at once: Trump’s victory is primarily due to the explosion in economic and geographic inequality in the United States over several decades and the inability of successive governments to deal with this."
posted by Coda Tronca at 4:03 AM on November 16, 2016 [9 favorites]

The tragedy is that Trump’s program will only strengthen the trend towards inequality. He intends to abolish the health insurance laboriously granted to low-paid workers under Obama and to set the country on a headlong course into fiscal dumping, with a reduction from 35% to 15% in the rate of federal tax on corporation profits, whereas to date the United States had resisted this trend, already witnessed in Europe.

Hmm, the problem then is something that wasn't addressed, but which voters didn't want to see addressed evidently. (And something Republicans spent the last six years making sure wasn't addressed. )
posted by gusottertrout at 4:09 AM on November 16, 2016

Yannis Varoufakis: "After Donald Trump’s awful victory, the left must be more ambitious" (interviewed three days ago in The New Statesman).
posted by progosk at 4:36 AM on November 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

Oh, Tommy Hilfiger was spotted entering the Trump Tower.

Wonder what the new uniforms will look like.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 4:43 AM on November 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

Hilfiger is finally gonna make berets happen
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:47 AM on November 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

If you can stomach it, the president-elect has another tweet storm this morning against the New York Times.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:48 AM on November 16, 2016

Facing a Trump administration, NYC may push its immigrant data kill switch: A spokesperson for the mayor’s office told The Verge that the city will take any necessary measures to protect cardholders’ confidentiality, and said it would only provide access if a cardholder agrees, if another city agency needs the information for other programs, or if a court orders the information to be released.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:52 AM on November 16, 2016 [5 favorites]

Those ladies who accused Trump of sexual misconduct and assault need to get their post-Gettysburg slander lawsuits going so that instead of all this free time to tweet against the NYT, Trump spends all his time giving depositions about the claims in question.
posted by mikelieman at 4:54 AM on November 16, 2016 [5 favorites]

Maybe the NY Times could print a special copy just for him.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 4:55 AM on November 16, 2016 [3 favorites]

Piketty: "Let it be said at once: Trump’s victory is primarily due to the explosion in economic and geographic inequality in the United States over several decades and the inability of successive governments to deal with this."

But why?
Is the implication here that there are more poor people in the US now due to growing inequality, and Trump was elected by those poor people?
Because the evidence suggests otherwise. The average income of Trump voters is higer than that of Clinton voters.
posted by sour cream at 5:06 AM on November 16, 2016 [3 favorites]

Oh, Tommy Hilfiger was spotted entering the Trump Tower.

Well, the left has the T-shirt designer Che Guevera
posted by thelonius at 5:07 AM on November 16, 2016 [3 favorites]

(In re anarchists: I will tell you a secret - there is a sizeable percentage of "bad anarchists" who vote at least sometimes. )

But there's a lot of stuff in play with the Portland arrests:

Some people who don't vote are more militant, smashy types, hence more likely to be arrested.

Some people who don't vote are militant because they are disenfranchised, and respond by anger and fucking shit up.

Also, with employment tighter and debt greater in the past decade, the nineties "I can afford to get arrested for something because I am middle class" thing has faded away a lot.

There's this idea that everyone in any movement who is angry/militant/smashy is super privileged. This has not been my experience. I have known some angry militant smashy people and observed others. Not all but the majority were people who were very disenfranchised - kids who had been kicked out for being gay or trans, kids from really poor backgrounds who had run away, kids (often of color) who had so many abusive interactions with police that they just didn't care anymore. This was something I observed with BLM protests, actually - the people who were angriest were the ones who'd lost the most.

Sometimes you can be from a rich background but let's say you get kicked out for being gay, or your family was sexually abusive. You might talk like a rich person and that give access to certain privileges, but it's not the same as "here I am with a fancy college degree, guess I'll break a window, nothing bad will ever happen to me".

Cries of "riot" are always used to delegitimize protest. I'd be really wary of "lol protesters didn't even vote" narratives at the macro scale, because they are not going to be used in any way that is good for anti-Trump forces.

I will be fucking delighted, though, if this election (should we all survive it) puts paid to the 'but both sides are equally bad' line on the radical left. I voted and I voted for Hilary because I am not an idiot, thank you.
posted by Frowner at 5:10 AM on November 16, 2016 [25 favorites]

Tommy's a democrat. Maybe he will sway our president-elect to dem principles through the power of pret a porter fashion.
posted by mochapickle at 5:12 AM on November 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

But why?
Is the implication here that there are more poor people in the US now due to growing inequality, and Trump was elected by those poor people?
Because the evidence suggests otherwise. The average income of Trump voters is higer than that of Clinton voters.

Yes. And I can't believe we're still doing this. (We in this case being the entire thinking world). Sorry intelligent people, but it really isn't the economy this time. It should be, but it isn't. Hate trumps sense.
posted by mumimor at 5:15 AM on November 16, 2016 [6 favorites]

Is the implication here that there are more poor people in the US now due to growing inequality, and Trump was elected by those poor people?
Because the evidence suggests otherwise. The average income of Trump voters is higer than that of Clinton voters.

No, Piketty's implication is Trump voters fear they'll lose the difference in income that separates them from Clinton voters — and since that difference is a lot more these days, it looks that much scarier. In these economic conditions, Trump successfully played on their economic anxiety by scapegoating the poor (and minorities and immigrants, etc., etc.).
posted by Doktor Zed at 5:18 AM on November 16, 2016 [20 favorites]

Piketty's an economist and he agrees with Michael Moore's analysis (just about the only one that predicted the Trump victory) about workers in the rust belt states.
posted by Coda Tronca at 5:20 AM on November 16, 2016

Oh, Tommy Hilfiger was spotted entering the Trump Tower.

Wonder what the new uniforms will look like.

maybe making a nod to Hugo Boss
posted by philip-random at 5:39 AM on November 16, 2016

What are the chances that hel ask for a delay in the university trial and, if it doesn't get approved, that he'll accuse the judge of being biased?
posted by SillyShepherd at 5:45 AM on November 16, 2016

Here's a fact that makes me want to stab myself! 112 protesters were arrested at the anti-Trump protests in Portland over the last couple days. Records show that only 25 of them actually voted.

Good job guys, you really have your priorities straight.
- Justinian

Yeah, if those Oregon electors vote extra hard it nullifies, like, 3 red states, minimum, at the Electoral College. Plus if she had gotten 66%+ of the Oregon vote, that unlocks the Extra Ball, which I don't think I need to explain how helpful that would be.
posted by indubitable at 5:49 AM on November 16, 2016 [9 favorites]

But why?
Is the implication here that there are more poor people in the US now due to growing inequality, and Trump was elected by those poor people?
Because the evidence suggests otherwise. The average income of Trump voters is higer than that of Clinton voters.

Quoting -- Yannis Varoufakis: "After Donald Trump’s awful victory, the left must be more ambitious" from above:

Clinton’s loss was caused by her failure to address the collapse of the economic status quo. A global epoch has ended. The period which began with the 1944 Bretton Woods conference, [convened to regulate the post Second World War monetary order], ended with the 2008 financial crash. US hegemony expanded in this era but it was the first time that a superpower got stronger by getting more into debt. The US resembled a huge vacuum cleaner sucking up the net exports of Germany, Holland, Japan and later China. It was increasing its deficit to those economies while, in a Keynesian way, aggregating demand for the global economy. The majority of profits from these Dutch, Japanese and Chinese companies were invested back into Wall Street. In 2008, this system collapsed and with it went the myth of globalisation. Obama promised to address this but he failed miserably in part because he lost control of congress. Today, 81% of US families are worse off than they were in 2004 — the median wages of most US workers have not peaked since 1973. Trump said this couldn’t go on, while Clinton offered continuity — that's why she failed.
posted by philip-random at 5:54 AM on November 16, 2016 [7 favorites]

One thing about Piketty and other Europeans: they're great, yeah, but IME they tend to underestimate the effects of racism in the US because racism has different roots and different forms in Europe.

Consider, if you will, how American mefites - even people who have read a lot of history - tend to miss some of the nuances of race in Europe.
posted by Frowner at 5:56 AM on November 16, 2016 [31 favorites]

Wait are you suggesting that a French economist might have some blind spots on race?!?!!!1
posted by tivalasvegas at 6:00 AM on November 16, 2016 [6 favorites]

Yeah, if those Oregon electors vote extra hard it nullifies, like, 3 red states, minimum, at the Electoral College. Plus if she had gotten 66%+ of the Oregon vote, that unlocks the Extra Ball, which I don't think I need to explain how helpful that would be.

Snark aside, facts like this don't matter a lick to my Trumpian relatives who have shared this story multiple times on facebook. Arrested protesters = Thugs. Arrested protesters who didn't even bother to vote? Thugs who have no right to complain and they (Trump voters) have no reason to pay attention to and every reason to scoff at. Whatever the underlying reasons, this is the narrative that will further cement them in their right wing bubble mindset. Anti Trumpers are whiny babies and thugs and only useful to stir up outrage (look at the violence and looting they are perpetrating!) and mockery (they didn't even vote!). It sucks.
posted by Roommate at 6:03 AM on November 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

The Mere Prospect Of A President Trump Has Fixed Two Big Issues - the title is ironic, which is irritating, but the content is in the subtitle: He can already cross illegal immigration and the economy off the list, thanks to actual facts, and further down in the article:

Trump could have a much tougher time, though, with two other major promises: bringing back coal mining in Appalachia and returning millions of manufacturing jobs “stolen” by China, Mexico and other countries in recent years

It is only the economy/inequality in the sense that Clinton promised the people who are actually disproportionally hit by the new economy that she was on their side, and would raise taxes on the rich and provide better healthcare and a minimum wage to the poor. She did that very clearly at the convention by showing the world her rainbow coalition. And white people all over the country resented that, because they know who the working poor are (not them). It even extends outside the US - globalization and trade has helped people across the globe achieve a better life, and as we've seen within Europe over time, this is a force that can be harnessed for the good: at first it was just about lowering of tariffs, but today the EU secures food safety and workers rights beyond its borders.
Yes, we need regulation of finance, but we need to get it through international agreement, not crazy national revolutions, wether from the left or the right.
posted by mumimor at 6:07 AM on November 16, 2016 [5 favorites]

What are the chances that hel ask for a delay in the university trial and, if it doesn't get approved, that he'll accuse the judge of being biased?

Already asked for it, because he's going to be too busy transitioning. IIRC, the judge said, "No.", and it's still on for next week.

And IIRC, he already accused the judge of Judging while of Mexican Descent or some shit.
posted by mikelieman at 6:10 AM on November 16, 2016 [5 favorites]

Snark aside, facts like this don't matter a lick to my Trumpian relatives who have shared this story multiple times on facebook. Arrested protesters = Thugs. Arrested protesters who didn't even bother to vote? Thugs who have no right to complain and they (Trump voters) have no reason to pay attention to and every reason to scoff at. Whatever the underlying reasons, this is the narrative that will further cement them in their right wing bubble mindset. Anti Trumpers are whiny babies and thugs and only useful to stir up outrage (look at the violence and looting they are perpetrating!) and mockery (they didn't even vote!). It sucks.

What kind of protest would be legitimate in their eyes?

A good thing to remember is that, for instance, MLK was considered a dangerous radical by....well, apparently by most white people.

I think there's a small percentage of people on the Trumpist right to whom peaceful mass protest might seem legitimate, but they're such outliers that there's not much point in worrying about them. The point of protest in this instance isn't to appeal to the conscience of the Trumpist right but to inconvenience the the regime enough to possibly make it hesitate in some actions, to show Democratic politicians that going over to Trump is going to make their cities and states less governable and to show the world that not all Americans fall in line with Trump.
posted by Frowner at 6:10 AM on November 16, 2016 [21 favorites]

I don't disagree, at all. And no, I don't expect they'd see any protest as legitimate. I just hate giving them any ammo for their memes. It's an own goal.
posted by Roommate at 6:22 AM on November 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

Some Republican asshat on a friend's fb pulled that "whyyyyy can't they all be just exactly like mlk?" And my friends was like, uh, you know he got assassinated, right?
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:23 AM on November 16, 2016 [17 favorites]

Let it be said at once: Trump’s victory is primarily due to the explosion in economic and geographic inequality in the United States over several decades and the inability of successive governments to deal with this.

Look, most people here are going to agree that progressive economics are an important issue. You know who doesn't agree? Trump voters. How do I know? Because those same voters, for decades, have supported Republicans. Not just for president, but often for governors and legislatures of their own states, and those governors tank their economies, kill unions and generally fuck around with the economy until there isn't much left but ashes. At the same time, those blue states that did support Clinton supported Democratic state government and their economies have done much better, to the point of holding up those red states by dint of paying more taxes than they take out instead of the other way around.

So just saying the election is all just economics is pretty meaningless as it doesn't explain the concerted choice by these voters, after decades of Democrats preaching progressive reform, to vote against their own economic interests. One of the only times they did vote for a Democratic president was Bill Clinton, who ran a third way campaign that moved further right and co-opted Republican policies in a number of areas, and which weren't always that beneficial to minorities. Going down that path again is to abandon the base of the left for these white dumbasses who wouldn't vote to help their grandmothers cross the street if it meant there might be some slight chance they couldn't get a large enough ammo clip. Call this choice what you will, I lean towards ignorance personally, but it isn't just economics.
posted by gusottertrout at 6:27 AM on November 16, 2016 [29 favorites]

Piketty: "Let it be said at once: Trump’s victory is primarily due to the explosion in economic and geographic inequality in the United States over several decades and the inability of successive governments to deal with this."

But why?

(Disclaimer: non-US observer, suitably terrified about the implications for the entire world as well as for my American friends, and American strangers I'd be proud to call one.)

There is only one way in which I can see the implications of this statement as tolerable, and it isn't that Democrats should pander to misogyny and white racism. It's that economic and geographic inequality has become a feedback loop driving people from depressed regions to the metropoles - the ambitious, the educated, the young, the persecuted, attracted by a more welcoming culture and more opportunities to get ahead - and that this has increased the cultural and political differences between states and regions over time. If the major cities of the Midwest and Rust Belt were twice the size they are today and the coastal metropoles were correspondingly smaller, we wouldn't see these extremes of opportunity and opinion. This is just as true of Britain or Australia as it is of the US, by the way (to name the two countries I know best), and I suspect of many other countries as well.

But it's frustrating to see post-election analyses that try to explain the mood of the American people and why the Democrats failed to capture it when we know that HRC will end up way ahead in the popular vote (the alt-right is already attempting to rewrite this history, by the way), and this despite legislated voter-suppression and suspicions of interference in key states favouring Republicans. Hillary won the vote and lost the election, which means that she spoke more to the mood of the American people despite all the obstacles in her way, and it's the electoral system that's broken. Talking about how we need to pay more attention to the people in small states because those are the rules of the game effectively accepts that a person living in California or New York is worth less than a person in Wisconsin, and fuck that. And I say that as someone born and raised in a small state.

America, I'm afraid, has thrown away the right to stand as an example of democracy and how it should be done, no matter how peaceful a transition the Obama White House attempts to effect. I say "I'm afraid" because I'm genuinely fearful that no country anywhere is now capable of holding that democratic authority (or at least of having a reasonable claim to it), and we're all now stumbling around in the dark.
posted by rory at 6:29 AM on November 16, 2016 [54 favorites]

If your only tool is economic and social class analysis then every problem looks like it's exclusively about socio-economics.

Post-WWII neoliberal economics is extremely problematic on a variety of fronts but the US will continue to struggle with the ramifications of neo-liberalism as long as it's possible to play people at the lower echelons of society against each other using race.

Republicans don't really want to get rid of neo-liberalism because quite frankly it's made a lot of them very rich. It seems that even Republicans are coming around to the idea that Keynesian pump-priming is pretty much a requirement because monetarist policy just doesn't get it done anymore. The major difference of course being that the Republicans typically don't want to pay for their pump-priming activities. Furthermore it's not entirely clear that the US economy needs pump-priming currently.

The Republican Policy Quiver is basically the following:
Cut Taxes
Reduce Regulations
Have the Blue States support the Red States through pork-barrel politics

These policies are generally wrapped up in some sort of implicitly racist language that basically translates to "Your tax dollars are going to pay for stuff for PoC". Short of that they basically suck at governance or addressing the very real problems of constituents.

Rural America is utterly dependent on the following:
Price Supports for agriculture
Medicare (to support the greying population)
Medicaid (to cover stuff like end-of-life care for seniors)
Social Security (to pay for the greying population)
Social Security Disability (to cover the increasing percentage of rural poor without access to jobs)

The jobs that can be had are either clustered around stuff like Home Health Care, Meatpacking, Truck Driving, Service Industry jobs like Fast Food and Big Box retail.

These communities are dead or dying. You can pretty much drive across huge sections of the country stopping for gas in towns where Main Street is basically boarded up and most of the businesses are gas stations, fast food chains, the occasional Wal-Mart, etc. There are still relatively prosperous people in some of these towns (Doctors, Lawyers, Dentists, Vets, Franchise Owners) but a lot of people are scraping along.

The young ones with talent go off to the state schools and generally return home once or twice a year. The young ones without talent might get jobs with family members or friends but they often stay put because their entire support net exists within this small town (Church, Family, Friends, relatively low cost housing). Many feel stuck or abandoned and increasingly these communities depend on Social Security Disability checks to take care of the large number of Americans that have effectively quit looking for employment.

High rates of alcohol and drug abuse are endemic to these areas and the remaining prosperous heartlanders with solid incomes look around and they see society falling apart because the entire way of life that they've known for decades is disappearing.

I understand why they voted for "Change" even though the Republican variation of change is pretty much the opposite of what they actually need.
posted by vuron at 6:30 AM on November 16, 2016 [29 favorites]

America, I'm afraid, has thrown away the right to stand as an example of democracy and how it should be done

But, wasn't that just the liberal version of American Exceptionalism in the first place? And therefore also a self-congratulatory myth, puffery easier for liberals and moderates to swallow than the more identifiably rabid, jingoistic / racist manifestations of AE?

I mean, the U.S. slaughtered the vast majority of the indigenous people within its borders, kidnapped and enslaved countless Africans, prosecuted wars against its neighbors and annexed their land, and used atomic weapons against civilians. There has never been any pre-existing high moral ground to lose, except in nationalistic mythology.

I say "I'm afraid" because I'm genuinely fearful that no country anywhere is now capable of holding that democratic authority

No one country does, nor ever has.

It's very important to remember however that this doesn't mean people of good will can't fight for justice or petition to have their government to pursue good policies, even without some crutch of artificial national moral authority.
posted by aught at 6:41 AM on November 16, 2016 [8 favorites]

US hegemony expanded in this era but it was the first time that a superpower got stronger by getting more into debt. The US resembled a huge vacuum cleaner sucking up the net exports of Germany, Holland, Japan and later China. It was increasing its deficit to those economies while, in a Keynesian way, aggregating demand for the global economy.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=bMGo

blue is total US debt (less finance sector) / GDP

red is the Fed's part of it, which doesn't count

shows the great pump of the 80s, followed by the greater pump of the last decade.

I expect another pump this decade now.
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 6:41 AM on November 16, 2016

it's possible to play people at the lower echelons of society against each other using race.

duders there are a ton of racist people in the US. They are not all poor puppets of capitalism, I promise.
posted by zutalors! at 6:43 AM on November 16, 2016 [7 favorites]

Black Lives Matter Issues Official Statement on Donald Trump's Election
posted by rabbitrabbit at 6:43 AM on November 16, 2016 [6 favorites]

SECRETARY OF STATE GARY BUSEY

Search your feelings. You know it to be true
posted by petebest at 6:46 AM on November 16, 2016 [6 favorites]

Yeah, if those Oregon electors vote extra hard it nullifies, like, 3 red states, minimum, at the Electoral College.

They could also have donated to campaigns, called voters in red states, or traveled to red states.
posted by kirkaracha at 7:06 AM on November 16, 2016 [3 favorites]

Piketty: "Let it be said at once: Trump’s victory is primarily due to the explosion in economic and geographic inequality in the United States over several decades and the inability of successive governments to deal with this."

The endless stream of articles/videos/etc that will boil down to "The reason why a football stadium worth of honkies swung the election is exactly my pet concern therefore it is imperative that we do my doubly-pet cure for my pet concern" that will clog the media for the next year is going to be hard to tolerate.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:06 AM on November 16, 2016 [33 favorites]

The endless stream of articles/videos/etc that will boil down to "The reason why a football stadium worth of honkies swung the election is exactly my pet concern therefore it is imperative that we do my doubly-pet cure for my pet concern" that will clog the media for the next year is going to be hard to tolerate.

speaking of which, why the hell doesn't the DNC sponsor a team in NASCAR?
posted by philip-random at 7:08 AM on November 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

Some Republican asshat on a friend's fb pulled that "whyyyyy can't they all be just exactly like mlk?"

Yeah, the literal whitewashing by conservatives today of MLK is fucking disgusting. "He was a Republican, he never blocked roads, we loved him, he was one of the good ones", etc. etc.

In the 60s before you fucking killed him, you fucking hated him. His favorable/unfavorable in 1966 was 33/63, with 44 highly unfavorable. And this was a general poll, not even of just white people. Take out whatever minorities were included and it's even worse.
posted by chris24 at 7:08 AM on November 16, 2016 [32 favorites]

The reason why a football stadium worth of honkies swung the election

Simple repulsion at Trump supporters amounts to the discarding of 60 million votes in a world where, alarmingly, elections still matter. - Counterpunch.
posted by Coda Tronca at 7:09 AM on November 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

"Going to be"?
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:09 AM on November 16, 2016

Simple repulsion at Trump supporters amounts to the discarding of 60 million votes in a world where, alarmingly, elections still matter. -

Yeah, I'm repulsed by racists, sorry. Luckily my opinion won't matter because both parties are going to start pandering to whites and no one will be talking about the minority vote in 2020.
posted by zutalors! at 7:11 AM on November 16, 2016 [17 favorites]

Yeah, I'm repulsed by racists, sorry.

From that Counterpunch link:

The disdain-behind-closed-doors of the Clinton campaign has been fully unveiled after the election, with oversimplified depictions of Trump voters as mere racists/misogynists/xenophobes and unending denial in the media of their economic plight. This plight of the white, working class was in plain sight, having been carefully analyzed by thoughtful, mainstream economists for months prior to the election.
posted by philip-random at 7:14 AM on November 16, 2016

Yes, I know, I have read the 100,000 pieces about how it's "economic anxiety, stupid."
posted by zutalors! at 7:15 AM on November 16, 2016 [21 favorites]

oversimplified depictions of Trump voters as mere racists/misogynists/xenophobes

They voted for a racist misogynist xenophobe running a visibly racist misogynistic xenophobic campaign. The line between "not r/m/x" and "okay with an r/m/x being President of the United States of America" does not fucking exist.
posted by Etrigan at 7:15 AM on November 16, 2016 [50 favorites]

The disdain-behind-closed-doors of the Clinton campaign has been fully unveiled after the election, with oversimplified depictions of Trump voters as mere racists/misogynists/xenophobes and unending denial in the media of their economic plight. This plight of the white, working class was in plain sight, having been carefully analyzed by thoughtful, mainstream economists for months prior to the election.

Some were mere racists, some had reasons for their racism. But they were all racists.
posted by chris24 at 7:16 AM on November 16, 2016 [10 favorites]

... and further:

This is not to say there are no serious racist and nativist elements to the Trump constituency, including the thug-in-chief himself. These dark elements have been extensively explored and rightly denounced. Yet, this is immaterial to the tactical issue of creating a unified people’s movement in the country. Either the left abandons the sometimes-racist, white poor or it makes a genuine attempt to understand, empathize, and cooperate with them.
posted by philip-random at 7:16 AM on November 16, 2016

it makes a genuine attempt to understand, empathize, and cooperate with them

The cooperation will result in dumping the minority vote. Empathizing means what, if not validating their racist fears?
posted by zutalors! at 7:18 AM on November 16, 2016 [7 favorites]

I'm ok with abandoning the "sometimes racist poor white." Especially since "abandoning" means "proposing concrete policies to improve their lives but not in a way that makes them feel superior to other races or genders."
posted by melissasaurus at 7:18 AM on November 16, 2016 [55 favorites]

Either the left abandons the sometimes-racist, white poor or it makes a genuine attempt to understand, empathize, and cooperate with them.

"And never, ever, ever call them out on their racism."
posted by Etrigan at 7:18 AM on November 16, 2016 [18 favorites]

Either the left abandons the sometimes-racist, white poor or it makes a genuine attempt to understand, empathize, and cooperate with them.

I'm fine not pandering to racists. If they want to come over because they get disillusioned by Trump, or because we don't run a woman who triggers their misogyny, or because we have actual real solutions to their problems, fine. But we won the popular vote by 2 million. We have a winning coalition - without sacrificing our morals, beliefs or more importantly PoC - without racists.
posted by chris24 at 7:19 AM on November 16, 2016 [47 favorites]

We have a winning coalition - without sacrificing our morals, beliefs and more importantly PoC - without racists.

We really need more people to speak up exactly like this.
posted by zutalors! at 7:23 AM on November 16, 2016 [14 favorites]

Either the left abandons the sometimes-racist, white poor or it makes a genuine attempt to understand, empathize, and cooperate with them.

The majority of Trump voters make twice as much as I do, and somehow I manage to avoid voting based on skin color. Maybe they should try to understand me.
posted by maxsparber at 7:23 AM on November 16, 2016 [72 favorites]

To me, votes are votes and getting the most votes is the name of the game. I wouldn't pander to racists/sexists and the like, but it is critical to speak to the common threads. Economic anxiety is one of them and if that's a way of getting even more votes, then work that angle.

Because leaving the various "ists" out in the cold does nothing to change their mind.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:23 AM on November 16, 2016 [11 favorites]

Hey guys, someone wrote a counterfactual article that puts the blame of the election on some sort of vague liberal elites while ignoring all of the plainly self-stated racist and misogynistic reasons people used to validate their vote for Trump, and also ignoring the discrepancies between the popular vote and the electoral college. I'm going to pull quote it a bunch of times as if this is somehow a knockout punch of an argument, OK? That's like, a super winning argument, right?
posted by tocts at 7:25 AM on November 16, 2016 [21 favorites]

I wouldn't pander to racists/sexists and the like, but it is critical to speak to the common threads. Economic anxiety is one of them and if that's a way of getting even more votes, then work that angle.

You can't do this with white working class unless you ignore "boutique" race issues or promise to work aggressively against them.
posted by zutalors! at 7:25 AM on November 16, 2016 [3 favorites]

Economic anxiety is one of them and if that's a way of getting even more votes, then work that angle.

Clinton has a lot of plans in place that specifically addressed economic anxiety. Trump didn't. I have a feeling most of the votes weren't based on who is best for the economy.
posted by maxsparber at 7:25 AM on November 16, 2016 [30 favorites]

rory: America, I'm afraid, has thrown away the right to stand as an example of democracy and how it should be done

To be honest, I don't think anyone anywhere looked to the US for that, with that weird two-party system and the even weirder electoral congress thing. If anyone thought that was an example of how democracy should be done, that was probably just the US Americans themselves.

But no worries. Many countries have pretty functional democracies.
posted by Too-Ticky at 7:26 AM on November 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

If the white working class or white middle class or white educated working/middle class or whatever people who voted for Trump would be open to joining in a multi-cultural, multi-gender, multi-orientation, multi-ability assemblage of voters who support respect, safety, economic security, and full citizenship and opportunity for all, then they are surely welcome and their voices and concerns will be included. A Rainbow Coalition, if you will.

But as a white progressive, I am not down with selling out the diverse base of the Democratic Party to pander to special snowflakes (heh) who feel they deserve all or most of the attention.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:27 AM on November 16, 2016 [34 favorites]

"The problem is that racism is evil!"

"From my point of view, the problem is that economic anxiety is evil!"

"Well then you are lost!"
posted by Apocryphon at 7:28 AM on November 16, 2016 [3 favorites]

"Let it be said at once: Trump’s victory is primarily due to the explosion in economic and geographic inequality in the United States over several decades and the inability of successive governments to deal with this."

What? When 1.5 of the parties in the legislature and practically every president since Reagan actively pursue policies that exacerbate that inequality, you don't get to call that an "inability" to deal with it.
posted by Rykey at 7:29 AM on November 16, 2016 [4 favorites]

or it makes a genuine attempt to understand, empathize, and cooperate with them.

The Clinton campaign had piles and piles of expertly crafted policies designed to improve the lives of poor whites. What the campaign wasn't willing to do was hurt women and people of color in the process, which is what whites, especially white men, actually want.

There are only three reasons to have voted for Trump:

1. Greed. The very rich and those who stand to profit directly from warmongering and graft.
2. Animus. A raw desire to see others suffer: women, people of color, LGBT people, immigrants, etc.
3. Stupidity or ignorance. No informed voter could reasonably believe that Trump would actually be a good president. The evidence that he will be dangerously incompetent is overwhelming.

Now, plenty of people may have thought they were voting for some other reason ("protecting America", "making America great"), but at root it boils down to one of those three. I have no interest in empathizing or cooperating with any of that. We should try to understand it, but only so that we can fight it.
posted by jedicus at 7:30 AM on November 16, 2016 [70 favorites]

My very anti-Clinton sister has a husband that was an air-traffic controller with a nice pension, who then went to work for KBR in Afghanistan as a very well-paid contractor, and so she hasn't had to have her own job in 30 years. She has a hobby farm and raises animals and goes on cruises and buys whatever toys she wants. They probably have more money than anyone in my immediate family.

So at least in her case, I'm going with misogyny (because she has a weird personal hate-on for Hilary specifically) and racism (because she says very racist things all the time, tells racist jokes, and lives in the country largely because you never see any black people out there).
posted by emjaybee at 7:33 AM on November 16, 2016 [11 favorites]

You can't do this with white working class unless you ignore "boutique" race issues or promise to work aggressively against them.

To be clear, I'm not advocating appeasing people, but making it clear that the Democratic party is the one to vote for if you want things better. That'll involve some deeper and better targeting of the white working class, but I firmly believe it can be done. At least enough to flip that 1-2% in Florida, Michigan and Wisconsin that would have brought home those electoral votes.

I really hope the DNC goes back to the 50 state policy that helped Obama get elected. You shouldn't just leave out vast swaths of the country.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:35 AM on November 16, 2016 [8 favorites]

We have a winning coalition

The trouble is, we don't have a winning coalition in the Electoral College, the Senate, the House, state governorships, or state legislatures. We need to peel off some of the GOP's vote somewhere, or our coalition members need to be a more reliable vote. (And yes, we need to fix gerrymandering and voter suppression etc. etc. etc.)
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 7:37 AM on November 16, 2016 [13 favorites]

"From my point of view, the problem is that economic anxiety is evil!"

who said that? this doesn't even make sense. Anxiety is evil?
posted by zutalors! at 7:38 AM on November 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

My knowledge is limited, not being an American, but won't messing with Medicare and Medicaid cause huge problems for the Republicans? Won't it have immediate and direct negative consequences in the daily lives of millions of people? Trump voters didn't think that they were voting for that, did they?

I can understand the small-government impulse to cut socialised programs, but I just can't wrap my head around why any smart politician would do this.

How Bannon flattered and coaxed Trump on policies key to the alt-right.

Is there a Grima Wormtongue meme yet?
posted by beau jackson at 7:38 AM on November 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

No one here is talking about appeasing racism or sexism. The practical implications of not ignoring economic anxiety could've simply been having Clinton visiting the Rust Belt more often. Picking messengers that the working class could connect with, not Lena Dunham (or not just). Mundane stuff that's hindsight makes dead simple to suggest.
posted by Apocryphon at 7:38 AM on November 16, 2016 [8 favorites]

My knowledge is limited, not being an American, but won't messing with Medicare and Medicaid cause huge problems for the Republicans?

It should, but the Democrats' grandstanding game is frequently terrible.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 7:39 AM on November 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

So weird how much Lena Dunham is becoming the face of Clinton's out of touchness.
posted by zutalors! at 7:39 AM on November 16, 2016 [3 favorites]

There are only three reasons to have voted for Trump:

4. The belief that Pence will actually be President and everything will be "fine".
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 7:40 AM on November 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

Gary Younge, a Ghanaian-Brit, was one of the Guardian's correspondents in the USA. For 12 years. He moved back to the UK, with his American wife and kids, in 2015. Back in the US for the election, he chose as his base, Muncie, Indiana. Over more than a month, he wrote a series of reports. This is from the last one.

It is in the precise place where race and class merge that a section of white America finds itself both bereft and beleaguered. “White privilege is like a blessing and a curse if you’re poor,” Walsh says. “White privilege pisses poor white people off because they’ve never experienced it on a level that they understand. You hear ‘privilege’ and you think money and opportunity and they don’t have it. There’s protected women, minorities – they have advocates. But there’s no advocates for poor people.”

So Trump got almost 60% of the white vote and performed poorly among every other racial group. Race was clearly a central fault line – and how could it not be, in a country that practised slavery for 200 years, apartheid for the next 100, and has been a non-racial democracy for only the last 50?

But Trump’s victory cannot be explained by racism alone – and the efforts to understand race and class separately result in one misunderstanding them both entirely. Indeed, to get to the bottom of Trump’s appeal we will have to go beyond any monocausal interpretation of these results and adopt a more intersectional approach, one that takes into account the fractious way a constellation of identities collide and align.

The long read
posted by Mister Bijou at 7:40 AM on November 16, 2016 [13 favorites]

My knowledge is limited, not being an American, but won't messing with Medicare and Medicaid cause huge problems for the Republicans? Won't it have immediate and direct negative consequences in the daily lives of millions of people?

at this point, the republican party is high on its own supply. they don't run campaigns based on policy anymore, and then when they win they are convinced that they have a mandate for all the policy they didn't run on.

they want to end medicare because they want to end medicare and they have convinced themselves that they are the will of the people and therefore nobody will be upset
posted by murphy slaw at 7:42 AM on November 16, 2016 [3 favorites]

4. The idea that Pence will actually be President and everything will be fine.

Oddly, this is also a variation on a Democrat's reason to think we might survive the next four years: The idea that Pence will actually be President and everything will be horrible but within normal parameters.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 7:42 AM on November 16, 2016 [3 favorites]

pence is by no means within normal parameters
posted by murphy slaw at 7:43 AM on November 16, 2016 [15 favorites]

who said that? this doesn't even make sense. Anxiety is evil?

I am lampooning this circular firing squad that seems to imply we're incapable of dealing with more than one issue at a time.

So weird how much Lena Dunham is becoming the face of Clinton's out of touchness.

She's not even a likable celebrity! She had a lot of reach and makes a lot of controversy but how many actually like her? Should've stuck with the Broad City girls imo
posted by Apocryphon at 7:43 AM on November 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

The Mere Prospect Of A President Trump Has Fixed Two Big Issues

The Republican president-elect campaigned to stop undocumented migrants from “pouring” across the border unchecked, but it turns out there are at least a million fewer people here illegally than there were in 2007 and the current migration trend is actually in the opposite direction, toward Mexico.

God damn it, why didn't the Democrats push back strong on this from the day he announced his campaign? It might've helped diffuse the issue and it would have been another example of him not knowing what he's talking about.
I knew this was the situation but only because of MetaFilter and my own research.
posted by kirkaracha at 7:44 AM on November 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

I like Lena Dunham. I read her newsletter, Lenny.
posted by zutalors! at 7:44 AM on November 16, 2016 [5 favorites]

pence is by no means within normal parameters

Didn't say good parameters. Normal GOP horrible parameters. Won't launch the nukes because the New York Times insulted him parameters.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 7:44 AM on November 16, 2016

It's not a circular firing squad argument. I see minority interests sliding under the waves here, and yet I'm being asked to stop being such an elitist.
posted by zutalors! at 7:45 AM on November 16, 2016 [6 favorites]

Republicans will protect Trump just as long as he's a useful tool for them. Once his uselessness and incompetence is revealed I'm pretty sure they'll cast him out. He's not a true believer and honestly a lot of the Republican agenda is probably bad for the Trump bottom line.

And there will be tons of leaks showing his malfeasance within months of taking office.

Pence is their guy it's just that he has the charisma of a white paper bag.
posted by vuron at 7:48 AM on November 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

We need to peel off some of the GOP's vote somewhere

Nah. 97 million people didn't vote in the last election. Let's go after people without a proven track record of racism and misogyny.

The Republicans win because they fixed the system. They have the House and Senate because of gerrymandering, not because their ideas are good. They have the presidency because the Electoral College, which was deigned to give more votes to less people and to disenfranchise slaves from the vote, somehow managed to miraculously align with the same white nationalist concerns 229 years after it was created, which is a monumental testament to both the staying power of racism and the effectiveness of tools set up to institutionalize it.

They are not winning because they are addressing actual people's actual concerns. They are winning because they are assuaging racism, sexism, and xenophobia, and because they gamed the system, and so with 20 percent of the vote they can claim a mandate.

We want to win again? Well, legal challenges help -- we need to end voter suppression and gerrymandering, if we can. Outreach to first-time voters helps, especially as young people tend to vote democrat. We have a lot of tools we can try, but they require work and money. None of them require spending 15 years trying to convince your racist uncle that Obama wasn't a secret Muslim, or his friend Barney at the bar, who doesn't agree, but thinks we should stop Muslims from coming into the country, or his wife Gale who hates Hillary for some unfathomable reason.
posted by maxsparber at 7:49 AM on November 16, 2016 [56 favorites]

Obama deported at least a couple million people.
posted by Coda Tronca at 7:50 AM on November 16, 2016

Just called my Congressman (R) and two Senators (one R, one D) about Bannon's appointment. Easy thanks to melissasaurus's script above, and phone staff at all three offices were polite and pleasant. You can citizen too!
posted by Rykey at 7:50 AM on November 16, 2016 [13 favorites]

Let's run with the idea that there's a large population that's suffering from an anxiety. One campaign attempted to separate the anxieties that weren't based in fact (The muslims aren't terrorists, the wall can't be built, you can't get your old jobs back) from the ones that needed to be addressed in policy (Retraining needs to be cheap and widely available, the minimum wage needs to be raised, women need better access to the workforce through paid leave and child care). One campaign inflamed those anxieties, painting pictures of black neighborhoods on fire and shadowy global conspiracies arrayed against them. We saw in this election that abuse works on people suffering from anxiety. It's not failing to understand or cooperate with the abused to put culpability for their behavior at the feet of their abuser.
posted by persona at 7:52 AM on November 16, 2016 [12 favorites]

Nah. 97 million people didn't vote in the last election. Let's go after people without a proven track record of racism and misogyny.

What if we did two things, appealing to that 97 million AND speaking more to the non-racist concerns of voters who voted Democrat before but didn't this time?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:53 AM on November 16, 2016 [9 favorites]

"From my point of view, the problem is that economic anxiety is evil!"

Funny, but even if there is agreement on the problem of economic anxiety, there's no agreement on the solution. For some (if not a lot) of the people that voted for Donald, any solution that doesn't involve stringent immigration quotas, kicking undocumented folks out, and banning Muslim refugees is a non-starter.
posted by FJT at 7:53 AM on November 16, 2016 [3 favorites]

The winning coalition argument rings pretty fucking hollow right now. We didn't win anything, not the Preisdency, not the Senate, not the House, and not the States. We have a geographically isolated population that agrees with us, which is not "a winning coalition" under the federal system that actually exists.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:54 AM on November 16, 2016 [4 favorites]

If the white working class or white middle class or white educated working/middle class or whatever people who voted for Trump would be open to joining in a multi-cultural, multi-gender, multi-orientation, multi-ability assemblage of voters who support respect, safety, economic security, and full citizenship and opportunity for all, then they are surely welcome and their voices and concerns will be included. A Rainbow Coalition, if you will.

I think Barber's term is "fusion coalition," and a lot of this discussion should be shut down since it's a lot of shouting at each other about things that are already moving on the ground. I wouldn't mind if mefi closed down discussions a bit earlier.

Coalition building is based on the premise that no single person can do everything. I think my fellow white guys need to learn to shut the fuck up when black people talk about how they can't put energy into building our parts of the coalition, or trust that we won't turn on them when politically convenient. White folks need to take on the work of teaching white folks that civil rights and economics can coexist.

That's also true of straight people given all the chatter I hear about "Safe Spaces," which started primarily because of pervasive harassment in schools, or bathrooms that has always been about discrimination. Straight people need to take on the work of teaching that those civil rights are compatible with economic reforms as well.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 7:56 AM on November 16, 2016 [5 favorites]

Update: More Than 400 Incidents of Hateful Harassment and Intimidation Since the Election

This is happening EVERYWHERE. Please encourage your friends, after they report these incidents to the police, to report them to SPLC.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:56 AM on November 16, 2016 [24 favorites]

"Yeah, if those Oregon electors vote extra hard it nullifies, like, 3 red states, minimum, at the Electoral College."

They could also have donated to campaigns, called voters in red states, or traveled to red states.
- kirkaracha

Sorry, what? The people who cast votes for Oregon at the Electoral College? Yeah, I suppose those are also things they can do. So what?

Or do you mean that the protestors could also do that? I mean yeah, who says that they didn't? The comment to which I was replying said that they didn't vote. I even included the entire comment to which I was replying, it's not hard to read like 3 sentences to find the context for my remarks.
posted by indubitable at 7:57 AM on November 16, 2016

What if we did two things, appealing to that 97 million AND speaking more to the non-racist concerns of voters who voted Democrat before but didn't this time?

Why do people believe that 97 million more voters will overcome the electoral college disadvantage that was created by the GOP redistricting effort?

We'll end up with someone winning the popular vote by 82 million votes and STILL losing the election.

The problem here isn't the voters, it's the GOP.
posted by Annika Cicada at 7:58 AM on November 16, 2016 [3 favorites]

It's totally possible that poor people decided the election, while the winning side is richer than the losing side. Suppose you have an election with 20 people, between the D and R party. If you line people up by income and show their votes, most years it looks like this
Poor DDDDD DDDDD DRRRR RRRRR Rich
Ds win 11 to 9
But imagine an R candidate comes along and gets all the usual R votes, plus a switching a few of the poorest votes to R
Poor RRDDD DDDDD DRRRR RRRRR Rich
Rs win, 11 to 9
The R voters overall are richer, they capture all of the votes of the richest segments of society, but they always do. For whatever reason, some of the poor voters decided to go R this time, and that won the Rs the election.

Is this what happened this year? I seem to remember somewhere in the last several election threads, that Democrats underperformed with some of the poorest demographics this year.
posted by rustcrumb at 7:59 AM on November 16, 2016 [3 favorites]

What if we did two things, appealing to that 97 million AND speaking more to the non-racist concerns of voters who voted Democrat before but didn't this time?

I'm not opposed. I just don't know how to do this. I don't know how to distinguish the voter who voted economic anxiety vs racial or gender anxiety, I don't know how to reach the ones that are reachable, and I don't know how to convince them that they are voting against their best interests, since they went for the guy whose only platform was based on racial and gender anxiety.

Here's what I would attempt:

1. Have comprehensive, vetted programs for economics that have the support of established experts.
2. Point out the other guy doesn't.
3. Point out repeatedly, and with solid facts, that the economy is on an upswing.
4. Point out that the unaddressed anxieties -- health care costs, school tuition, etc., is all caused by the other side preventing legislation that would address this.

I am sure there are more things, but you probably already get my point: Clinton did all this.

If there are better approaches, I'd like to know them, and I would like to know why they weren't brought up before now.
posted by maxsparber at 8:00 AM on November 16, 2016 [12 favorites]

Appeal to their emotions.
posted by Apocryphon at 8:04 AM on November 16, 2016 [3 favorites]

Clinton has a lot of plans in place that specifically addressed economic anxiety.

No, she really, really didn't. At least, not what Rust Belt/rural voters were actually anxious about.

Increasing the minimum wage only helps people making under minimum wage, not people making over $15 an hour but who can't make ends meet for their family. Childcare to help women enter the workplace assumes women want to, rather than feel themselves forced by a shitty economy to do so. Strengthening the ACA doesn't help people who already have robust insurance. Early childhood education doesn't do much for middle class kids who aren't doing that badly in school.

Hillary Clinton's plan was great for the poorest, but didn't offer much at all to middle class economic anxiety.
posted by corb at 8:05 AM on November 16, 2016 [10 favorites]

The idea that Pence will actually be President and everything will be fine.

The thing is, though, I'm starting to become convinced that if Trump is impeached (most likely for enriching himself through his office), that Pence will be so wrapped up in it through, if nothing else, sheer incompetence that he will be taken down too.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 8:06 AM on November 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

CityLab (The Atlantic): The Reality of Rural Resentment

One of the biggest themes to emerge so far from the 2016 U.S. presidential election is a widening rural vs. urban divide.

There's a very strong theme of anti-elitism, projected onto existing sources of tension.
posted by ZeusHumms at 8:07 AM on November 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

Hillary Clinton's plan was great for the poorest, but didn't offer much at all to middle class economic anxiety.

Boy, you left out a lot, though. Tax cuts to the middle class and small business, increasing worker benefits, expanded overtime hours, fighting wage theft, etc.

Remind me what Trump's plan was, and how it assuaged these fears?
posted by maxsparber at 8:10 AM on November 16, 2016 [27 favorites]

What if we did two things, appealing to that 97 million AND speaking more to the non-racist concerns of voters who voted Democrat before but didn't this time?

Oh, that's a good idea. It's a new way of moving forward. Like a middle way between the two sides. Almost like a Third Way. Hmm.
posted by FJT at 8:11 AM on November 16, 2016 [3 favorites]

This is a nation with frequent surveys where people on the street get polled on whether or not they support certain policies, and they answer positively to Democratic policies if you say they came from Republicans. How many of those Trump voters actually knew what Clinton's policies were?

We're arguing about the content of the message when we should be examining the way it was messaged.
posted by Apocryphon at 8:13 AM on November 16, 2016 [19 favorites]

I think impeachment by a Congress scared out of their wits by a population whipped into a frenzy by the impending state-run media and MAGA rallies will be tricky.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 8:14 AM on November 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

My gut feeling about Clinton vs. Trump is that ya'll are way off when it comes to "it was about policy!" No one reads policies; they skim them and say "yeah, good enough" or "ugh no," if that much. Mostly they listen to people they trust saying "this is good/bad," and leave it at that.

To win, especially as a woman in a sexist society, Clinton would have had to be super charismatic and charming on the stump, and she was not. She just wasn't. It's not a character flaw, but it's a problem Kerry and Gore also had; stiff, confusing, unable to connect from the stage. I was bored during her speeches, if inspired by her personally. It's a gift Obama and Bill had.

And while Trump isn't exactly charismatic, he's watchable, because he's unpredictable and/or enraging, and the rubbernecking impulse kicks in. You want to see what he will do.

It's shallow and stupid and should never matter in a job this important, but, anyone who runs next needs to be able to be charming as fuck, funny, good with a riposte, and able to keep people guessing as to how they'll respond. Not dangerously glib, but not so serious, when talking to the American people.

It's not just "have a beer with," it's "is someone I relate to." Clinton is intimidating, not in a mean way but in a "here is my 20-page policy outline" way. She couldn't soundbite, she couldn't skewer Trump in the way he deserved.

I think about why that doesn't appeal and I think that it also symbolizes confidence. Gore, Kerry, Hillary: all act like people who have studied for the exam like hell but aren't sure they're going to make it and are worried. Bill and Barack were like people who studied for the exam but are confident that whatever happens, they can handle it. And that attitude is reassuring and appealing.
posted by emjaybee at 8:15 AM on November 16, 2016 [24 favorites]

Here's what I would attempt:

1. Have comprehensive, vetted programs for economics that have the support of established experts.
2. Point out the other guy doesn't.
3. Point out repeatedly, and with solid facts, that the economy is on an upswing.
4. Point out that the unaddressed anxieties -- health care costs, school tuition, etc., is all caused by the other side preventing legislation that would address this.

I am sure there are more things, but you probably already get my point: Clinton did all this.

If there are better approaches, I'd like to know them, and I would like to know why they weren't brought up before now.

Fifty state strategy, with local Democrats talking to local people. Hillary as a person just wasn't going to appeal to some people, even though I firmly think she was the better candidate and is pretty awesome. But when people are feeling like they're getting the short of the stick, appealing to their emotions is a better route, so local party members would be better ambassadors for the message.

No idea why the Democrats haven't been rebuilding the 50 state strategy that helped Obama. I suspect there's some classism there.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:15 AM on November 16, 2016 [10 favorites]

Oh, that's a good idea. It's a new way of moving forward. Like a middle way between the two sides. Almost like a Third Way. Hmm.

I'm not opposed to that, but third parties are still struggling to reach 5% of total votes in Presidential level. That's not winning. Probably best to build local and state offices first.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:17 AM on November 16, 2016

"3. Point out repeatedly, and with solid facts, that the economy is on an upswing."

Counterpoint: I understand that this is the case, based upon the metrics that are commonly used. Unfortunately, those metrics no longer bear relation to on the ground reality for many people. Most people don't see things getting better. If one attempts to tell them that, despite the fact that most of the people who they know are currently doing worse than they were x years ago, things are on an upswing, they are likely to feel insulted.
posted by bootlegpop at 8:18 AM on November 16, 2016 [6 favorites]

I'm not opposed to that, but third parties are still struggling to reach 5% of total votes in Presidential level. That's not winning. Probably best to build local and state offices first.

*pssst* They're talking about third way centrism.
posted by Talez at 8:18 AM on November 16, 2016 [3 favorites]

Clinton won the primary, fine, but she could have picked a more charismatic VP than Kaine who could act as her messenger, or hey, attack dog (Alan Grayson?). Or fine keep Clinton/Kaine but get some more high-profile surrogates who could play well in Muncie, not just the ones who appealed to Manhattan.
posted by Apocryphon at 8:19 AM on November 16, 2016

I'm not opposed to that, but third parties are still struggling to reach 5% of total votes in Presidential level.

That's not what Third Way refers to. Think "triangulation."
posted by adamgreenfield at 8:19 AM on November 16, 2016

I'm not opposed to that, but third parties are still struggling to reach 5% of total votes in Presidential level. That's not winning. Probably best to build local and state offices first.

*pssst* They're talking about third way centrism.

Which is spelled C-L-I-N-T-O-N.
posted by Etrigan at 8:19 AM on November 16, 2016 [4 favorites]

I'm starting to become convinced that if Trump is impeached…that Pence will be so wrapped up in it through, if nothing else, sheer incompetence that he will be taken down too.

All Hail President Ryan!

Seriously, hail like a motherfucker or your grandmother dies.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:20 AM on November 16, 2016

I'm not opposed to that, but third parties

Sorry, my mistake. I haven't had my coffee yet. You were kind of talking about it, but my point isn't directed really at you. But all the previous discussion about economic anxiety and how we have to understand and appeal to the white working class voter just sounds like what Clinton and other Third Way Democrats did in the 90s, except repackaged.

My glib point was, the more things change, the more they stay the same.
posted by FJT at 8:21 AM on November 16, 2016

Trump’s Victory is on College-Educated Whites, Not the Working Class.
posted by wildblueyonder at 8:22 AM on November 16, 2016 [5 favorites]

from the article on rural resentment linked above:

"I mean, the KKK endorsed this person who is becoming our president. Is it appropriate to say that people who voted for him are not also endorsing some of the behaviors that the KKK finds appealing? And yet, when I spend time with these folks in rural communities, these are delightful, decent people. And I’m struggling to convey that, because then my friends in the city are saying, Yeah, but they voted for Donald Trump."

My question is why do so many people fundamentally fail to understand that someone can seem to be nice to them and still be a racist.
posted by winna at 8:22 AM on November 16, 2016 [20 favorites]

Which is spelled C-L-I-N-T-O-N.

"Remember how good the '90s were?"
posted by Talez at 8:22 AM on November 16, 2016

Boy, you left out a lot, though. Tax cuts to the middle class and small business, increasing worker benefits, expanded overtime hours, fighting wage theft, etc.

What tax plan are you looking at? Serious question. Most of the Clinton tax analysis I saw left most middle class taxes relatively unchanged.

But those expanded overtime hours and wage theft aren't where middle class economic anxiety lies either. That's, again, stuff that affects the poorest more than the middle class, who often don't want to be pulling overtime at all.
posted by corb at 8:22 AM on November 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

So what are the Republican plans that would actually address the concerns of the WWC. Not the working poor because let's be honest those are PoC by a vast margin.

1)Rebuild Infrastructure- Unfortunately the Trump plan depends on Private-Public partnerships which mean toll roads but the economic reality is that tollroads pretty much only make sense in urban/suburban locations where the traffic volume allows for the profit margin needed.

2)Cut Taxes- Despite decades of Republicans cutting taxes on Job Creators this does not actually increase aggregate demand. Corporate America is sitting on vast stockpiles of cash that are effectively collecting dust. Cutting taxes will just pad their bottom line and do absolutely nothing to cause investment

3)Increase Defense Spending- This is great for DoD contractors but doesn't really do a ton in terms of actually putting a ton of people to work. Yes the military has traditionally been seen as a ticket out of poverty for much of rural America but there are limits to beneficial effects of increased military spending

Cut Gasoline taxes and what happens? Highways turn to shit really really fast because transportation spending is heavily financed by gasoline taxes. Reduce environmental regulations? People are NIMBY as fuck in this country and it's getting harder and harder to justify putting environmentally toxic industries in poor neighborhoods. The reality is the Republican economic policy agenda sucks.

You can just go to someplace like Kansas and see what Republicans doing stupid shit looks like.
posted by vuron at 8:24 AM on November 16, 2016 [12 favorites]

Brandon Blatcher: Fifty state strategy, with local Democrats talking to local people. Hillary as a person just wasn't going to appeal to some people, even though I firmly think she was the better candidate and is pretty awesome. But when people are feeling like they're getting the short of the stick, appealing to their emotions is a better route, so local party members would be better ambassadors for the message.

I wish I had a million favorites for this and every other "yes 50 state strategy" post. As well as a million dollars to donate! Howard Dean's 50 state strategy worked, and abandoning it was a huge mistake. I sound like a broken record, but - focusing only on the Presidency and not on the downticket was how the Democrats lost the House and the Senate and all those state governorships, and it's going to be a long hard slog to come back from that. But come back we must, if we are to have a two-party system and not a permanent Republican oligarchy.

Back in that Daily Kos thread linked above, one of the comments was to the effect of "People are always saying that the Green Party should start at the bottom instead of aiming for the Presidency. Maybe Democrats need to start at the bottom again." We've seen how a recalcitrant Congress could hobble a well-meaning Democrat President. Now we're worried about how Congress can't restrain a not-so-well-meaning Republican. Democrats - we fucked up. We need to start unfucking our habitat.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 8:26 AM on November 16, 2016 [20 favorites]

No idea why the Democrats haven't been rebuilding the 50 state strategy that helped Obama. I suspect there's some classism there.

100%.

I have less faith that the Democratic Party will treat people without college degrees like we're fully deserving of basic respect and dignity than ever before. I am already aware that most people believe non-graduates inherently and unavoidably deserve to be paid less than graduates 100% of the time, and can attest that a 22-year-old with a bachelor's degree in underwater basketweaving will have a starting wage that exceeds mine at 35 with 15 years' experience in a highly specialized job, because they have the piece of paper and I don't. And I am even more aware that giving less credence to book-learnedness and supposed intellectual superiority and more credence to life experience and street smarts is quite literally unimaginable to an overwhelming majority of the folks who comment here and in other ostensibly politically progressive spaces. But smart, decent, kind, thoughtful people who can't/don't ever go to college do exist, and continuing to behave as though we're all just an indiscernible bunch of humans who are simply too stupid sorry, uneducated to have valid ideas about what's best for the country doesn't exactly do wonders when it comes to disabusing us of the notion that the movers and shakers in "our" party think they're demonstrably better and smarter than us.
posted by amnesia and magnets at 8:26 AM on November 16, 2016 [26 favorites]

And I am even more aware that giving less credence to book-learnedness and supposed intellectual superiority and more credence to life experience and street smarts is quite literally unimaginable to an overwhelming majority of the folks who comment here and in other ostensibly politically progressive spaces.

Come on, now. I've agreed with many of the earlier points you've made, but that's a strawman to end all strawmen. Literally no one here has ever suggested any such ordering of the world, and many, many folks have advocated for the same things you're asking for.
posted by adamgreenfield at 8:31 AM on November 16, 2016 [9 favorites]

Hillary Clinton's plan was great for the poorest, but didn't offer much at all to middle class economic anxiety.

This is not true.

Her tax plan focused squarely on the middle class. Tax credits for families with young children. Credits to families that are caring for elderly parents. Tax credits for those with medical expenses. ACA healthcare expansion would also have tried to help the middle class in a big way. There was also proposed funding for the IDEA plan, which helped families of children with disabilities.

Her National Infrastructure Plan would have allocated $27.5 billion per year to improve roads, bridges, public transit, rail, airports, the Internet, and water systems. All of which would benefit the middle class. Her Energy Plan would pay $9 billion annually to repair oil pipelines, reduce carbon emissions, and fund health and even retirements for coal workers. Most of which would have lowered energy costs over time.

Her plans for education (not just early childhood but also free college tuition and student debt relief in her "College Affordability Plan") specifically targeted the middle class. Her Expanded Childcare and Early Education Plans would have spent $27.5 billion a year for states to make preschool available to all 4-year-olds and expand Early Head Start. And yes, the middle class benefits in a big way from early childhood education. It keeps their kids competitive, gives them opportunities later in life, etc. And frankly, since many of the middle class are still living paycheck to paycheck (despite living above the poverty line,) and can't necessarily afford taking on the cost of a pre-school, it gives them a significant advantage in helping their kids get ahead from a young age.

She never stopped talking about all of this. It was in most if not all of her speeches. Education and healthcare were the cornerstone of her campaign, precisely because we in the middle class all worry so much about being able to afford them.
posted by zarq at 8:31 AM on November 16, 2016 [60 favorites]

I have less faith that the Democratic Party will treat people without college degrees like we're fully deserving of basic respect and dignity than ever before.

"Democrats need to appeal to the white working class but not call them idiots even when they're acting like idiots, they can't call them racists even when they're acting like racists, just don't hurt their feelings at all. They're the kings. Democrats can't use facts and logic, big words, anything plan with more than three points, or take more than two minutes to describe a plan that's not too detailed or we'll just get bored".

I'd say at some point these people have to take some personal responsibility and investment for fucking their own lives up and they deserve to be ruled by some cold-hearted granny starver but there's too many people at the bottom that don't deserve the shit that the WWC will happily vote on all of us just to piss off a liberal, or a queer, or a mexican.
posted by Talez at 8:37 AM on November 16, 2016 [9 favorites]

Come on, now. I've agreed with many of the earlier points you've made, but that's a strawman to end all strawmen. Literally no one here has ever suggested any such ordering of the world, and many, many folks have advocated for the same things you're asking for.

Please recognize that my experiences in the world have been very different from yours, and consider that I may be much more used to being talked about like I don't exist (or am simply too uneducated to be bearing witness to the conversation in the first place) than you are.

...there's too many people at the bottom that don't deserve the shit that the WWC will happily vote on all of us just to piss off a liberal, or a queer, or a mexican

Sorry, but where do you get off assuming that no one in the white working class is liberal or queer? It's so, so common and so, so gross.
posted by amnesia and magnets at 8:38 AM on November 16, 2016 [14 favorites]

can attest that a 22-year-old with a bachelor's degree in underwater basketweaving will have a starting wage that exceeds mine at 35 with 15 years' experience in a highly specialized job

Strawmanning college educated people as majoring in "basketweaving" severely undercuts your point. My younger brother is majoring in Computer Info Systems and every college student I've met is majoring in computers, medicine, law, or business. Or at the very least DOUBLE majoring where one is practical and the other is a a little less. Part of it is the difficult job market of the Great Recession and high cost of going to college have made a lot more students make practical decisions. The other part is college budget issues that have forced cuts to (mostly) humanities programs, including "basketweaving".
posted by FJT at 8:39 AM on November 16, 2016 [9 favorites]

Come on, now. I've agreed with many of the earlier points you've made, but that's a strawman to end all strawmen. Literally no one here has ever suggested any such ordering of the world, and many, many folks have advocated for the same things you're asking for.

When people get used to preferential treatment yada yada yada.
posted by Talez at 8:39 AM on November 16, 2016

I think there's a difference between saying that an action that someone is doing is idiotic, or wrong-headed, or bigoted, and calling them bigoted wrong idiots.
posted by Apocryphon at 8:40 AM on November 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

I'd say at some point these people have to take some personal responsibility and investment for fucking their own lives up

You do realize that this is the same despicable attitude many Republicans express about the poor, yes?
posted by zarq at 8:41 AM on November 16, 2016 [6 favorites]

...and pregnant women.
...and people with AIDS.
...and religious minorities.
posted by zarq at 8:42 AM on November 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

Clinton's economic plans were good, the problem was messaging. She didn't make them a central campaign theme (did she have a central campaign theme, beyond "Trump is a garbage fire"?), and the press was more than happy to completely ignore policy in its coverage of the Clinton campaign to focus on EMAILS. Meanwhile, Trump both had a central theme of white middle class victimhood and proposed a magical, conspiracy-theory-based solution to that victimhood that it was impossible to logically refute because it was never based on logic, or reality.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:42 AM on November 16, 2016 [7 favorites]

You do realize that this is the same despicable attitude many Republicans express about the poor, yes?

[thatsthejoke.jpg]

You know, hoisting these assholes up on their own petard.
posted by Talez at 8:43 AM on November 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

Dems don't need to appeal to Trump voters, not a single one of them. They can safely ignore them all. They just need to appeal to the non-voters. The ones who didn't like either option so they just sat it out.

Those non-voters obviously didn't like Trump and likely aren't racist misogynist entitled white men (most of them). They should be easy to reach. Start by tracking them down and asking them what kind of candidate and policies would have motivated them to vote.
posted by rocket88 at 8:43 AM on November 16, 2016 [5 favorites]

The problem is that the skilled industrial jobs are largely gone at this point and they 100% aren't coming back. Yeah there are the occasional aberrations where you have various micro-factories that can easily employ some skilled machinists and the like but at a certain point the economies of scale that are possible with automation or outsourcing have caused most publically owned companies to shift their manufacturing abroad because container ships allow the global flow of finished goods with minimal transportation costs.

Yes the game is rigged in favor of college graduates and has been for decades but it's not like this has been some big secret. High Schools have been handing out the lifetime earning potential between HS graduates and College Graduates for ages and while the cost of education has definitely gone up it's still seen as the primary way to the middle class.

Is this right or fair? Not sure. I'm a big believer in the transformative power of higher education even if an increasing number of people attending university are focused on job skills and credentials instead of an enriching experience.

Tech is one of the aberrations because you can still see highly paid people without degrees in Tech but that's rapidly coming to an end IMHO.
posted by vuron at 8:44 AM on November 16, 2016 [3 favorites]

> Trump’s victory is primarily due to the explosion in economic and geographic inequality

Is the implication here that there are more poor people in the US now due to growing inequality...?

No, the implication is that all the serious money is to be made in big cities, and rural people who were at a very comfortable middle-class level - and under threat of having to shift to just "comfortable" - were upset that they couldn't become millionaires, AND that urban areas have a lot of other resources that rural areas lack: all those theatres and clubs they see on the news, multinational foods, several colleges, bookstores, boutiques of many kinds, and so on.

Not that they want their local supermarket to carry anything more multinational than ramen and chipotle sauce, but they want to be able to go out somewhere "exotic" for special occasions. So, they want a sushi bar and an IMAX theatre on main street... for two days a year.

There were a whole lot of "fuck you" votes in this election. A whole lot of, "if I can't have good things, nobody can." A whole lot of "how dare my taxes go to support Those People; I'd rather nobody had medical care than that They got it."

(I mean, there ARE more poor people due to growing inequality. But they didn't vote for him.) (Yes, I have heard the "they lied about their income" theories. I will posit that someone who makes $40k/year may fudge to say $50k. I have doubts that people who make $15k/year are claiming they make $85k on voter polls.)
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 8:44 AM on November 16, 2016 [5 favorites]

Talez; I'm sorry, I may have missed your point? I don't believe I'm speaking out of privilege, though if I am I'd rather you pointed it out to me than taking an oblique shot.
posted by adamgreenfield at 8:45 AM on November 16, 2016

Picking messengers that the working class could connect with, not Lena Dunham (or not just).

Unless you're referring to a rally or debate performance, a website document or podcast, a campaign-sponsored ad or an IRL person directly referring to those things, your critique is flawed. The majority of Presidential election voters connected with the Democratic candidate at some level.

To the "undecided" cake-or-death crowd and the Trump-because-both-are-bad crowd, the mainstream press has much, much more influence that a campaign does on a candidate's message or "connectibility".

Emails. Seekrit emails. Untrustable? Why untrustable? Foundation! Bill sex. Emails. Trump is valid. Also, new more seekrit emails potentially. Weiner. Pussy. Corrupt tweet. Sex tape check out. Benghemailz. Shrill second amendment

A message the working class can connect with.
posted by petebest at 8:46 AM on November 16, 2016 [4 favorites]

It can't be true that Clinton didn't win because she was a boring policy wonk and that she should have talked about her boring policy stuff more because no one was paying attention to it. That's getting her both ways.
posted by zutalors! at 8:46 AM on November 16, 2016 [27 favorites]

Talez; I'm sorry, I may have missed your point? I don't believe I'm speaking out of privilege, though if I am I'd rather you pointed it out to me than taking an oblique shot.

Oh I'm sorry. It was tacit agreement not a potshot. The full quote is “When people get used to preferential treatment, equal treatment seems like discrimination.”
posted by Talez at 8:48 AM on November 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

HOLY FUCK THE ELECTION

That piece of shit known as Donald Trump won the election.
But that doesn't mean it's fucking over.

FIRST THINGS FIRST...

ARE YOU OKAY?

[I NEED A FUCKING MINUTE]     [I'M READY TO FUCK SHIT UP]

posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:48 AM on November 16, 2016 [40 favorites]

Erin Keefe says she's educated, but apparently not enough to have read Jane Jacobs' Systems of Survival, a thin, quick read that shows when the principles of running a successful business are applied to government, corruption ensues. It's been about 5 years since I read it. If I recall right, she doesn't give examples, but it's easy for the reader to fill in some, and I quickly come up with the usual suspects of Germany and Italy, as well as the 1970s juntas in Brazil, Argentina, Chile, and Paraguay. If you find the idea of a privately owned prison system odious, and wonder how it grew so fast once Reagan was elected, you can find reasons for that in the book as well.

I've long wanted to attend, or even create, a course based on how The Wire illustrates Jacobs' book. But it's clearly time for a reread, to get a glimpse of what's going to happen in the U.S. the next few years.
posted by morspin at 8:51 AM on November 16, 2016 [28 favorites]

Zarq, but those are urban middle class concerns, not rural ones. A childcare credit assumes two working parents from the get go. There's no "home childcare credit" for stay-at-home moms, for example. And pre-K is most useful for those kids who don't have a parent at home with the desire, time, and ability to teach. It offers absolutely nothing for people who want to provide that education in the home.

The same with college. It offered free community college tuition, and help with public college tuition for those making under certain amounts - not a dime for those over it, and not a dime even in tax relief for those wanting to send their kids to competitive private schools.

I'm not white, and I didn't vote for Trump. But Hillary Clinton's economic plan didn't speak to me, and I think that's worth noting, and it's something the Democrats should learn from. She didn't offer my family anything we could or would use. I still campaigned for her because fascism, but she didn't offer to alleviate the economic anxiety of myself or really anyone in my widespread family, who all wound up voting Trump because of it, who at least promised to seriously lower their taxes.
posted by corb at 8:52 AM on November 16, 2016 [9 favorites]

[thatsthejoke.jpg]

You know, hoisting these assholes up on their own petard.

Welp, the assholes just banded together and voted in an "anti" candidate in large part because they thought Democrats were corrupt and fucking them over. Climbing into the cesspool with them is not a solution.
posted by zarq at 8:52 AM on November 16, 2016 [3 favorites]

asking them what kind of candidate and policies would have motivated them to vote.

I would have thought "not destroying America" would have been one. Seriously.

We missed the "too cool/lazy/disenfranchised to save the country that my friends, family, and myself live in" vote.

Sex tape. Weiner.
posted by petebest at 8:54 AM on November 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

Strawmanning college educated people as majoring in "basketweaving" severely undercuts your point. My younger brother is majoring in Computer Info Systems and every college student I've met is majoring in computers, medicine, law, or business.

Degrees in psych or literature or econ or sociology or polisci or comparative religion or underwater basketweaving are, from the point of view of employers, all degrees in information processing and communication.

a 22-year-old with a bachelor's degree in underwater basketweaving will have a starting wage that exceeds mine at 35 with 15 years' experience in a highly specialized job, because they have the piece of paper and I don't

A core problem with having 15 years experience in a highly specialized job is that you're in great shape if that specific job is in high demand and totally, totally fucked if it's not.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:54 AM on November 16, 2016 [8 favorites]

Texas Lawmakers Launch New Attacks On Abortion, LGBTQ Rights

“Starting in 2017, we will have a friend in the White House,” said Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:54 AM on November 16, 2016

(a) Institutional racism and white supremacy is a problem across all socioeconomic levels of White America.

(b) Foregrounding the working-class portion of "white working class" is classist.

(c) Democrats can work on the ground in White working class communities to address "economic anxiety issues, but should also recognize they have a problem in the relatively affluent white suburbs -- not just in the Rust Belt but also on the coasts.

(d) There is only a limited amount of empathy, cash and time to dedicate to outreach. Democrats should prioritize organizing among communities of color when there is a conflict of resources, both because they are the communities most threatened by Trumpist neo-fascism and because they are the communities who will be most open to Democratic messages. (That is, they are less propagandized by the Right.) Deprogramming is more resource-intensive than mobilization of already-receptive communities. If we can max out the POC vote like Obama did, we can win.

(e) The twin dangers are normalization of fascism on the one hand, and panic on the other. We have to be calm, sober, creative and honest about the challenges ahead.

(f) We need a multiplicity of voices and approaches. As much as I find him kind of obnoxious, we need Michael Moores. We also need DeRay McKessons. We need loci of resistance both inside the system and outside the system, on the streets, in the legislatures, in the civil service, in the churches, mosques and synagogues, in the cities, in the countryside, everywhere.
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:56 AM on November 16, 2016 [9 favorites]

I have less faith that the Democratic Party will treat people without college degrees like we're fully deserving of basic respect and dignity than ever before. I am already aware that most people believe non-graduates inherently and unavoidably deserve to be paid less than graduates 100% of the time, and can attest that a 22-year-old with a bachelor's degree in underwater basketweaving will have a starting wage that exceeds mine at 35 with 15 years' experience in a highly specialized job, because they have the piece of paper and I don't.

I'm interested in understanding how you arrived at the conclusion that the Democrats in particular value credentials over decades of experience.

And what you mean by basic respect and dignity.

I certainly haven't found that most of the other people I've encountered working in or talking about the details of Democratic politics believe that anyone inherently or unavoidably deserves to be paid less than a college graduate, and I've definitely found that it's the rule that people on the D side of the aisle believe anyone working deserves a living wage, that health care should be available to everyone, and there should be robust safety nets for people whether they hold any kind of degree or not.

I have seen the credential-as-inherent-value thing in the business world. Less often than I'd thought I would growing up, but definitely real. Not sure how that's connected with the Democratic Party, though, the view that business culture is the best culture tends to be more associated with Republican politics.
posted by wildblueyonder at 8:57 AM on November 16, 2016 [9 favorites]

A whole bunch of calling scripts and resources for contacting your elected representatives about [insert Trumpist/Ryan atrocity here].
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:57 AM on November 16, 2016 [28 favorites]

It is a FAILING strategy to say that caring about the interests of POC, LGBTQ+, women, and similar is INCOMPATIBLE with caring about poor people (rural and elsewhere)

Poor "people"? So POC, LGBTQ+, women can't be poor?
posted by zutalors! at 8:58 AM on November 16, 2016 [8 favorites]

Frankly, I don't have any more energy to devote to the concerns of college-educated whites. I just... yeah, I just don't. I have been taught to carry water for them my whole damn life, trying to pass as one of them, succeeding only insofar as I have been able to hear and read the conversations they have when they think we aren't around. It's a class-wide invisible knapsack that happens to be most prominent among people who would otherwise readily call themselves out on the carpet for obliviousness in the face of other forms of systemic bias.

Most college-educated white folks are given a degree of deference that will eternally evade me, and have come to expect this deference will continue unabated, but I will never understand why they are the one group that is spoken about as though they're somehow automatically more immune to racist and sexist arguments, with the "WWC" serving as the omnipresent foil. I bear witness to the way upper- and middle-class resentment of poor people manifests in real life every day and it's only getting worse. So I am finally, really well and truly, all out of fucks to give. College-educated white folks get the red carpet rolled out for them in every other situation in life, and now they want to blame the shitty election results on those of us who a Trump regime will hurt more than it hurts college-educated white folks, without even considering they might be part of the problem? I despair.
posted by amnesia and magnets at 8:58 AM on November 16, 2016 [22 favorites]

There's no "home childcare credit" for stay-at-home moms, for example.

Donald Trump has actually proposed an above the line deduction for childcare, capped at the average cost of childcare in each state, including stay at home parents. I have no clue how that last part would work, accounting wise. It's also, perhaps ironically, a much bigger incentive in Washington DC (average cost of childcare $18,000), but on the other hand childcare here is outrageously expensive (We pay $15,000/year for bog standard center based daycare).

I think his tax plan is the part of his domestic agenda most likely to pass, so I would expect this to be law, personally.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 8:59 AM on November 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

YOU ARE LITERALLY PITTING POOR WHITES AGAINST EVERYONE ELSE LIKE IT'S A ZERO SUM GAME

Forget Weimar, this has been something going on in the U.S. forever. It's how Southron slavocrat aristos were able to get non-slaveowning whites to fight and die for them. We can't let this win-by-division continue to ensnare us.
posted by Apocryphon at 9:00 AM on November 16, 2016 [11 favorites]

I mean, I know the answer: it was a major Clinton campaign strategy during the primaries and defending Clinton has become its own self-perpetuating activity. But it's so so so unwise; it's perhaps even dangerous.


Or you know, maybe people disagree on how to bring the "sides" together, and that's okay.
posted by zutalors! at 9:01 AM on November 16, 2016 [7 favorites]

If we can max out the POC vote like Obama did, we can win.

You're gonna need another charismatic, handsome black man at then end of an eight year term of Republican to max out the POC vote. Which isn't impossible, but is very narrow.

And yes man, because sexism. It sucks, but it's true.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:02 AM on November 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

Meanwhile back in the darkest timeline, a.k.a reality, Immigration hardliner says Trump team preparing plans for wall, mulling Muslim registry

Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach, who helped write tough immigration laws in Arizona and elsewhere, said in an interview that Trump's policy advisers had also discussed drafting a proposal for his consideration to reinstate a registry for immigrants from Muslim countries.

Muslim registry is not dead. It's just not a muslim registry. It's just for immigrants not members of a religion.
posted by Talez at 9:02 AM on November 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

And yes man, because sexism. It sucks, but it's true.

It has literally been a week and we're throwing our liberal ideals right under the bus.
posted by zutalors! at 9:03 AM on November 16, 2016 [7 favorites]

For any given co-worker, family member, neighbor, friend, Facebook friend or anyone above a casual acquaintance, I'm pretty sure I would know immediately whether or not they have a four-year college degree. Maybe there would be a few surprises. But amnesia and magnets is right. The white working class does get scapegoated and othered by the white middle class so the latter can absolve themselves of their own racism. We can't pretend this doesn't happen, or that it's a phenomenon limited to the Republican white middle class.
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:06 AM on November 16, 2016 [6 favorites]

Sexism, racism, discrimination, educational levels, will not matter to the robots; who will, (by some date stated somewhere,) soon perform 50% of all human jobs. I look though an empty skyscraper in this little town, which used to be full of clerks storing paper for Wells Fargo. Better get a job at the robot factory, and don't have kids, it is over. The rest of our time we will spend entertaining the ilk of Bannon, and Trump, Putin, Morsi, The Chinese, the Bible bangers, with our struggles. And, don't forget the new utility, your air bill will be more than the heat bill.
posted by Oyéah at 9:07 AM on November 16, 2016 [3 favorites]

It has literally been a week and we're throwing our liberal ideals right under the bus.

Probably reading waaay too much into that.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:07 AM on November 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

How Trump Can Make Money Off the Secret Service

For travel on Trump’s black-and-red Boeing 757 and Cessna Citation jet, the candidate’s aviation company TAG Air Inc. has raked in almost $6 million, Politico reported. These payments, Secret Service spokesman Joe Casey said, accord with FEC rules specifying that those traveling with a campaign—including the news media—must pay for their travel.

Trump’s aircraft fleet is just a microcosm of the numerous potential conflicts his transition team must navigate, given the extent of the president-elect’s business interests. Once they take office, Trump, Vice President-elect Mike Pence and their wives will travel on U.S. military aircraft. What’s not clear is how their seven adult children, their spouses or any other relatives will travel if they are under federal protection. If they’re traveling with Trump or Pence, they’ll likely fly on Air Force One or Air Force Two. At other times, however, Trump’s children might fly on a private jet—potentially one Trump owns.

posted by zachlipton at 9:09 AM on November 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

I think things'll be better eventually. But it's going to be a very long wiggle through a very dark hole to get there.
posted by mochapickle at 9:09 AM on November 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

Did he actually have blind spots on race in the article linked? If so, what? He addresses the ethnic split in votes in the article and specifically says that it is troubling to only have one party with effective rhetoric on economic concerns because that party is functionally the "white" party.

OK, I confess that my comment there was a cheap shot at French intellectualism and that I didn't actually read the article before commenting. I have to go to work now but I will actually go back and read the article when I get a chance.
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:09 AM on November 16, 2016

I'd like to hear how you appeal to poor whites who voted for Trump (despite the fact that evidence suggests that Trump voters are not all that poor in total) with some non racist strategies. How you empathize with their fear of Muslims and Mexicans taking their jobs.

The only way to do that on a campaign level is to join in on it.
posted by zutalors! at 9:09 AM on November 16, 2016 [3 favorites]

Donald Trump has actually proposed an above the line deduction for childcare, capped at the average cost of childcare in each state, including stay at home parents.

This is a perfect example. Why is this the Republican policy and not the Democratic one? What stopped Clinton from taking her childcare tax cut proposal, and taking the feminist step of valuing women's unpaid labor and granting credit for stay at home moms as well - a proposal that would also benefit WOC?
posted by corb at 9:12 AM on November 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

This is not normal: FOX News Channel to Debut New Special Entitled “OBJECTified: Donald Trump”

FOX News Channel (FNC) will present a new one hour special entitled, "OBJECTified: Donald Trump" on Friday, November 18th at 10PM/ET. Hosted by TMZ’s Harvey Levin, the program will feature an interview with then-presidential candidate Donald Trump as he showcases the objects in his home and offers the stories behind each memento. An encore presentation of the special will be presented on Saturday, November 19th, and Sunday, November 20th at 8PM/ET.

The special will feature a side of President-elect Donald Trump that has rarely been seen before. During the interview, which was conducted on September 15, 2016, Trump recounts the stories behind photos, letters, trophies and other cherished keepsakes he's acquired throughout his lifetime. President-elect Trump also explains how each object holds a special significance and how they have influenced his life. The interview will trace Trump's life from a three year old boy living in Queens, to a family tragedy that still resonates with him, an unfulfilled dream of becoming a Hollywood movie mogul, and the decades old advice from a former President that planted the seeds for his presidential campaign.

So basically Fox News is going to air a special, taped a few months ago, where the President-elect sits with a guy from TMZ and shows us crap from his apartment. This is not normal.
posted by zachlipton at 9:12 AM on November 16, 2016 [35 favorites]

BoingBoing has a White Supremacy Euphemism Generator for journalists in case they were having trouble coming up with headlines.

Alabaster Dogmatists Oppose Foreign Banking Cognoscenti
American Populists Gainsay D.C. Skeptics
Amid European Populists, a Chance At History
Homeland Propagandists Taunt Beltway Establishment
Waxen Populists Take Stand Against Feminist Elites
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 9:12 AM on November 16, 2016 [7 favorites]

But I feel like accepting the Trump narrative (you have to pick between the economy and civil rights) is a terrible, terrible mistake.

It's also completely wrongheaded. Much of American success and achievement has been driven by immigrants and people of color. Throwing away those brains/contributions is idiotic.

Not that this will stop some people, but there isn't even a real argument there to make.
posted by emjaybee at 9:13 AM on November 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

. It's fucking terrifying to see the party that is, frankly, the only option for POC talking about how to appeal to a lot of white people, many of whom are racist.

Thanks for backing off the all caps Clinton robots rhetoric. But the fact that you see that it is "fucking terrifying" means that you probably see the inherent risk to such a strategy. But I guess choosing to ignore it, or assuming that PoC and other marginalized groups should just go along for the bashing to trust that things will work out for them? Why would they do that?
posted by zutalors! at 9:13 AM on November 16, 2016

Yes the Republican party is pretty skilled at drumming up resentment against Liberal Elites.

Look nobody is claiming that the White College Educated Middle Class aren't complete dillholes a lot of the time. We all know plenty of White Kids that are utterly blind to their privilege, we have memes like privilege denying guy for a reason.

Yes the college douchebag fratbro or the Trustafarian asshole are stereotypes that totally exist. White people can be elitist as fuck and let's be honest most White Middle Class people are never going to be Woke. Lots of them on both the right and left are racist and misogynist they just disguise their bigotry in different way.

What's interesting is that rather than ally with the Working Class PoC the WWC has decided that working across racial lines is unacceptable. Republican identity politics working as designed.
posted by vuron at 9:13 AM on November 16, 2016 [3 favorites]

Please recognize that my experiences in the world have been very different from yours, and consider that I may be much more used to being talked about like I don't exist (or am simply too uneducated to be bearing witness to the conversation in the first place) than you are.

I do recognize that, and I appreciate your perspective. But you were specifically calling out "folks who comment here," and I don't think that the rather broad brush you applied was at all a fair characterization of the general tone of the conversation here.

I don't, at all, in any way, doubt that you've been dismissed and treated disrespectfully. I don't doubt that some self-styled progressives have thrown their credentials in your face, or challenged your right to participate in a conversation based on a lack of same. I just don't think those things have happened here, and I've been watching pretty closely for that sort of thing. Tell me I'm wrong, and I'll be the first to believe you, but I'd like to think we're better than that.
posted by adamgreenfield at 9:14 AM on November 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

What we need is some judicious whiteflight.

Weepy white moneyed types with no skin in the game who are nevertheless screaming about moving to Canada need to instead move to swing counties in swing states. If everyone with a vacation home in a blue state sold it and built one in a purple state and lived, voted, and spent money there, we'd have a brighter outlook.
posted by Don Pepino at 9:15 AM on November 16, 2016 [5 favorites]

I'd say at some point these people have to take some personal responsibility

you might say "you" and not "these people" when you're responding directly to and insulting such a person.

amnesia and magnets, I am 90 percent in agreement with you although as a white person with a couple of degrees, I feel it savors of sweaty-palmed class guilt and eagerness to be a Good One when I talk about how awful other college-educated white people are, at least collectively. though they are. Where I part ways with you is the tired "underwater basket-weaving" bit, because it is a right-wing-talk-radio phrase that conjures up the spectre of anti-intellectualism in the listener's mind even though I am positive you don't mean it that way. When I think of puffed up nothing degrees that should command no respect from anybody, I think Business, Communications, Marketing, Business and Marketing, and MBA for good measure. That kind of shit. but I still suspect that when other people say it, they mean the humanities. which do, god love them, try to teach people A. real facts and history and B. critical thinking and writing. they fail frequently, but they try, and those useless degrees that serve as a class marker and a yes-I-deserve-an-office-job-and-to-be-a-boss membership do not even do that.

I respect people who could not, did not, or actively chose not to go to college, especially though not exclusively when they know more or have read more than I have, which is not unusual. I myself went to college because I could and because I didn't know what else to do, two things which are not in any way to my credit. I value book-learning very highly for very good reasons and do not expect to change my mind on that, but I am fully aware that my own most valuable education came from self-directed reading and that every intelligent literate person can know as much or more than I do without ever going to college or, for that matter, finishing high school. I do not, however, accept that there is any relation between education level and so-called street smarts.

But I do agree with you more than not.
posted by queenofbithynia at 9:16 AM on November 16, 2016 [8 favorites]

So basically Fox News is going to air a special, taped a few months ago, where the President-elect sits with a guy from TMZ and shows us crap from his apartment. This is not normal.

The new normal: "What's Good for brand Trump is Good for America!"
posted by Mister Bijou at 9:19 AM on November 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

What's interesting is that rather than ally with the Working Class PoC the WWC has decided that working across racial lines is unacceptable. Republican identity politics working as designed.

As has the white middle class. This is my point.

Solve for the common denominator. It ain't class.
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:19 AM on November 16, 2016 [9 favorites]

If everyone with a vacation home in a blue state sold it and built one in a purple state and lived, voted, and spent money there, we'd have a brighter outlook.

I don't have a vacation home; I don't have any savings; I'm still seriously considering moving from the Bay Area Bubble to a swing state. My current job is remote work; I could do it anywhere with a good internet connection.

OTOH, I'm one voice, not particularly social or community-minded, and moving to "the heartland" puts me in direct danger for my religion, which isn't even noticed in California. Still thinking about it. Other Pagans have certainly managed to live in conservative areas.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 9:20 AM on November 16, 2016 [4 favorites]

Research says there are ways to reduce racial bias. Calling people racist isn’t one of them.
posted by philip-random at 9:20 AM on November 16, 2016 [8 favorites]

Why are we talking only about college educated whites? A lot of minorities and marginalized groups in general pursue college degrees because it's a pretty (and sometimes only) solid path to better economic and social opportunities. They pursue degrees to try to be equal to whites, not feel superior to them.
posted by FJT at 9:21 AM on November 16, 2016 [4 favorites]

I'd like to hear how you appeal to poor whites who voted for Trump (despite the fact that evidence suggests that Trump voters are not all that poor in total) with some non racist strategies. How you empathize with their fear of Muslims and Mexicans taking their jobs.

Appeal to their economic interests by having concrete plans of what one is going to do to improve the economy. When there's plenty to go around people will be less racist. If they think they have to fight for crumbs, all the territorial racism comes out.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:22 AM on November 16, 2016 [3 favorites]

Appeal to their economic interests by having concrete plans of what one is going to do to improve the economy. When there's plenty to go around people will be less racist. If they think they have to fight for crumbs, all the territorial racism comes out.

Yeah, that's not really an answer. it doesn't describe what Democrats would need to do to win over Trump voters in 2018 and 2020, which seems to be what we're talking about here. And it doesn't address the fear of Muslim topic at all.
posted by zutalors! at 9:24 AM on November 16, 2016

I guess the one tiniest silver lining of the obscene housing prices in Californian (SoCal is far better than the Bay Area, but still pricy compared to the rest of the world) is that votes in Austin and Atlanta and Raleigh still count towards the presidency. But that just continues income disparity, so
posted by Apocryphon at 9:24 AM on November 16, 2016

(d) There is only a limited amount of empathy, cash and time to dedicate to outreach. Democrats should prioritize organizing among communities of color when there is a conflict of resources, both because they are the communities most threatened by Trumpist neo-fascism and because they are the communities who will be most open to Democratic messages. (That is, they are less propagandized by the Right.) Deprogramming is more resource-intensive than mobilization of already-receptive communities. If we can max out the POC vote like Obama did, we can win.


One of the things that hamstring us in these discussions is the assumption that diversifying the base is a loss rather than a gain. Republicans are better at organization at the "grass roots" level. Rove was able to tap churches as a source of cash and volunteers. The Tea Party not only did an excellent job of radicalizing the Republican base and keeping FUD in the news cycle through dozens of protests during the Obama administration.

Metafilter in these discussions has a number of biases, including a focus on top-down messaging over bottom-up organization, and a somewhat knee-jerk dismissal of religious organizations, which is where a lot of the cultural and local political battles are really going on.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 9:24 AM on November 16, 2016 [6 favorites]

And that's sort of why "appease the white people, or they'll get racist on you!" is an unappealing proposition for a lot of people.
posted by zutalors! at 9:25 AM on November 16, 2016 [10 favorites]

So you think the correct approach is to act as though Clinton is the best possible candidate who ran the best possible campaign, at least on economic issues?

Speaking only for myself: If we're considering how to run a more successful a presidential campaign, then I think we have to wait 2 years to see a) how the mid-terms turn out b) what kind of state the US and the world are in and c) who in the Democratic party is interested in running.

Plenty of people will analyze the Clinton campaign's successes and failures. I'm more interested in what we can do, now, to limit the damage Trump can cause.
posted by jedicus at 9:27 AM on November 16, 2016 [8 favorites]

If it was true for one second that Trump voters cared about "concrete economic plans", they would not have voted for Trump, the man who literally had nothing. Even discounting the Clinton hate machine - Trump was the Man with No Plan back in the Republican primary as well, and they still voted for him.
posted by Roommate at 9:27 AM on November 16, 2016 [10 favorites]

So you think the correct approach is to act as though Clinton is the best possible candidate who ran the best possible campaign, at least on economic issues?

Rejecting the polarized all-or-nothing rhetoric where Clinton's economic policy regarding working-class concerns was either perfect or nonexistent would be a start.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 9:28 AM on November 16, 2016 [6 favorites]

And that's sort of why "appease the white people, or they'll get racist on you!" is an unappealing proposition for a lot of people.

Sorry, not sure if you're addressing my comment or not because the thread is moving quickly, would be happy to respond if so.

No, not yours.
posted by zutalors! at 9:29 AM on November 16, 2016

I think the only strategic plan that has legs is a renewed 50 state strategy (fwiw my OFA alum colleague bigly agrees and had the organizing anecdata to back it up, as does my cantankerous old father in law who flipped his local party committee the bird over similar complacency--both are from rural PA counties). Too many local Dem committees in "red" areas just rolling the hell over and doing nothing. An annual spaghetti dinner and putting or some yard signs but otherwise sitting on your hands is not a winning strategy. The grass roots have too many old white dudes who are legacy Dems but deep down can't get that excited about progressivism or racial and economic justice and just let their local committees languish. I'm not all grr argh at the DNC but a commitment to solving this is what I'm looking for in a new leader.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:29 AM on November 16, 2016 [30 favorites]

I'd like to hear how you appeal to poor whites who voted for Trump (despite the fact that evidence suggests that Trump voters are not all that poor in total) with some non racist strategies. How you empathize with their fear of Muslims and Mexicans taking their jobs.

I swear I saw a suggested script for that somewhere in here, that went something like:

"We gotta do something about all these damn furriners!"
"Why is that?"
"They're taking our jobs!"
"Hmm. What is your job specifically?"
"I'm...a junior executive."
"Huh. How much of a risk is there of an illegal immigrant taking your job as a junior executive?"
"....Well....okay, but they're taking all the jobs as, like, apple pickers and shit!"
"ahhhh, okay, see, I think the person at fault in that case isn't the immigrant, it's the farm owner who hires them illegally. What do you think?"
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:31 AM on November 16, 2016 [8 favorites]

Hey Metafilter, I think this is targeted exactly at our discussion:

Sam Adler-Bell: Trump and the Working Class

It may be true that due to demographic change, Democrats won’t need white working class voters to win presidential elections in the near future. But they do need them to win back state legislatures, gubernatorial races, senate and congressional seats. The thing about these “irredeemably racist” hinterland states is that they all have cities, and in those cites are minorities. These states also have women and immigrants and LGBT people and disabled people. As it stands, the marginalized populations in red states live under the rule of increasingly authoritarian statehouses and governors, whose priorities include depriving gay & trans people of their rights & safety, depriving poor and black people of the franchise, depriving working people of the right to organize, and depriving women of the right to get an abortion—not to mention empowering police, prosecutors, and immigration enforcement.
posted by emjaybee at 9:32 AM on November 16, 2016 [13 favorites]

This conversation has included a number of classist comments. I'm not going to lay them all out for you but I want to support amnesia and magnets because I think that comment was basically correct.

Yeah, but we're not talking about class, unless it's educational attainment as a proxy for class. We're talking explicitly about people who are college-educated (or at least -credentialed) denying space to people who aren't, and I continue to maintain that's not happening here.

Obviously access to higher education is broadly correlated to class. Nobody's denying that. God knows this place has had its faults, furthermore, and has needed to be educated along a whole bunch of axes. I'm the first person to admit that, and probably among the first to have benefitted from it. But you're going to tell me that here, of all places, people are going to get marginalized in a conversation because they don't have a diploma? You must be inhabiting a very different — and honestly, a much sadder — MetaFilter than the one I've been coming to daily since 1999.
posted by adamgreenfield at 9:33 AM on November 16, 2016 [3 favorites]

Zarq, but those are urban middle class concerns, not rural ones.

This doesn't make sense to me.

I have lots and lots of family in non-urban and rural America. They need healthcare. They are worried about their kids' educations. Many are not college educated and want their kids to go to college, but aren't sure if they'll be able to send them without going into tremendous debt. As far as I could tell, Trump's plans didn't address those things beyond glib soundbites.

A childcare credit assumes two working parents from the get go. There's no "home childcare credit" for stay-at-home moms, for example.

Let's be clear: Most of the credits Clinton proposed are for having children. Not for a childcare credit. Doubling the child credit. Expanding that same credit so more families are covered. Etc. These credits are absolutely not contingent on whether or not those children are in childcare outside the home. Approximately 29% of American families have a stay-at-home mom. They'd benefit from those credits, even if a child care credit wasn't necessarily accessible to them.

And pre-K is most useful for those kids who don't have a parent at home with the desire, time, and ability to teach. It offers absolutely nothing for people who want to provide that education in the home.

Which would affect about 2 million kids, yes. I'm not convinced she thinks homeschooling educates children effectively.

Interestingly enough, Trump did propose a homeschooling voucher plan which would have been accessible to a small number of families.

Some of her plans do leave out some people, yes. But those same people will benefit from some of her other proposals.

The same with college. It offered free community college tuition, and help with public college tuition for those making under certain amounts - not a dime for those over it, and not a dime even in tax relief for those wanting to send their kids to competitive private schools.

You should read this. Because some of your facts are wrong.

Included in this first prong are several initiatives that aim to "bend the cost curve" for higher education and encourage states to both increase their share of education spending while controlling costs. The plan provides states with grants for their public universities to ensure residents can access in-state tuition "debt-free," assuming that parents make a "reasonable contribution" and students work 10 hours a week. In order to qualify, states would need to increase investment in higher education over time, and universities would have to prove that the funds were going towards instruction rather than secondary aims like athletics. Lower-income students would get enough financial assistance to graduate debt-free, while those with higher incomes could complete two years of AmeriCorps and one year in a public service job after graduation to have their debt forgiven. Clinton also proposes increasing the size of the AmeriCorps program.

The plan also offers $25 billion in assistance to private institutions with low endowments that largely serve minority and underserved students. Finally, the plan also embraces President Obama's proposal to offer two years of tuition-free community college.

posted by zarq at 9:33 AM on November 16, 2016 [11 favorites]

I think the person at fault in that case isn't the immigrant, it's the farm owner who hires them illegally

"I only used Chinese steel because la-hoooooo-zers like you didn't make it impossible!"
posted by uncleozzy at 9:34 AM on November 16, 2016 [4 favorites]

I don't think it's appeasement so much as calling people Nazis has proven to only embolden them and dig into their ideological trenches, rather than shaming them into seeing the error of their ways. This is the exact same scenario we saw over a decade ago, when the hot button issues were the Evangelical theocratic agenda and the Iraq War. (Times sure have changed, no?) Stuff like "Jesusland" and making fun of George Bush didn't work then, and I doubt they'd start working now. It's just both respective sides circling around their wagons instead of gaining new ground.
posted by Apocryphon at 9:35 AM on November 16, 2016 [3 favorites]

it doesn't describe what Democrats would need to do to win over Trump voters in 2018 and 2020

I think it does, though. Including a national focus on economic issues that bother rural areas and speak to their anxieties would go a LONG way towards reaching these people. Just acting as though they believe the rural areas and ways of life have value would go a long way. There's no need to compromise with racism- it's about adding platforms, not subtracting them. You don't have to throw out helping minority groups in order to also help the rural middle class and poor, and acting as though you do is a false dichotomy that makes them more likely to vote for the Trumps of the world.
posted by corb at 9:36 AM on November 16, 2016 [5 favorites]

You know what? Derail over. This isn't helping anyone. There's so little to stand in the way of the actual enemy at this point, and we're all going to need every last bit of energy if we're going to prevail against the storm that's bearing down on us. If you don't agree with me about the tenor of this community, you don't, and I doubt any amount of argument on my part will convince you.

If this election has taught me anything, in fact, it's that rational argument just doesn't work. And I don't much care for the methods that do.
posted by adamgreenfield at 9:37 AM on November 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

Yeah, that's not really an answer. it doesn't describe what Democrats would need to do to win over Trump voters in 2018 and 2020, which seems to be what we're talking about here. And it doesn't address the fear of Muslim topic at all.

1. One of the reasons Trump won is that he appealed to people's economic worries. So doing the same would peel off some of those voters, assuming Trump's policies do indeed fail hurt that slice of the populace.

2. I wouldn't address the fear of Muslims directly, just concentrate on improving the economy and getting jobs to various slices of the population. Then encourage Muslims (and anyone else) to apply for those jobs, with the goal in diversifying largely white communities or regions so that those scared citizens get to know Muslims on a personal level.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:37 AM on November 16, 2016 [3 favorites]

I don't see it as "shaming" or calling people Nazis, I see it as people standing up for their right to existence. I think it's a strawman to say people are calling whites "racist" every single time, it's more that any attempt to assert your identity is "identity politics" and "crying racism."
posted by zutalors! at 9:37 AM on November 16, 2016 [6 favorites]

Hosted by TMZ’s Harvey Levin

Who is both Jewish and gay. How does he promote Trump (other than for financial and ratings reasons, of course).
posted by fuse theorem at 9:38 AM on November 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

So out in the real world, what's today's crisis? Still calling electeds about Bannon?
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:39 AM on November 16, 2016 [5 favorites]

Then encourage Muslims (and anyone else) to apply for those jobs, with the goal in diversifying largely white communities or regions so that those scared citizens get to know Muslims on a personal level.

Yes, let's send Muslims on a "get to know us" tour of economically disadvantaged areas, at a time when anti Muslim hate crime is at an all time high.
posted by zutalors! at 9:40 AM on November 16, 2016 [19 favorites]

I'd like to hear how you appeal to poor whites who voted for Trump (despite the fact that evidence suggests that Trump voters are not all that poor in total) with some non racist strategies.

Again, the Michael Moore article that predicted the Trump win includes some Trump appeals to the working class that had nothing to do with race:

"he’s said (correctly) that the Clintons’ support of NAFTA helped to destroy the industrial states of the Upper Midwest. Trump is going to hammer Clinton on this and her support of TPP and other trade policies that have royally screwed the people of these four states. When Trump stood in the shadow of a Ford Motor factory during the Michigan primary, he threatened the corporation that if they did indeed go ahead with their planned closure of that factory and move it to Mexico, he would slap a 35% tariff on any Mexican-built cars shipped back to the United States. It was sweet, sweet music to the ears of the working class of Michigan, and when he tossed in his threat to Apple that he would force them to stop making their iPhones in China and build them here in America, well, hearts swooned..."
posted by Coda Tronca at 9:43 AM on November 16, 2016 [4 favorites]

This is a perfect example. Why is this the Republican policy and not the Democratic one? What stopped Clinton from taking her childcare tax cut proposal, and taking the feminist step of valuing women's unpaid labor and granting credit for stay at home moms as well - a proposal that would also benefit WOC?

First, because Trump hasn't given us any idea how he'd pay for it. That may sound like a Republican objection, but yeah, if you're going to give some people what amounts to a pretty sizable tax break, you need to be clear about how we're paying for it. He just handwaves about economic growth and cutting spending.

Beyond that, Trump's child care proposal, which was a short document lacking any details seemingly inserted into the campaign by Ivanka at a late date, relied on tax deductions, which caused many of us to roll our eyes because that does basically nothing for poor and even many middle class Americans, while giving a nice break to the more wealthy. He belatedly added a plank where people claiming the Earned Income Tax Credit would get a credit back instead of a deduction. He never gave any details on this, but that still leaves you with everybody making something in between those thresholds getting essentially nothing.

As an example, a married couple with two kids making $50K, standard deduction, etc... pays around $250 in federal income tax. At $75K, it's $4000, less if they can itemize or take above-the-line deductions for retirement contributions. So the best a tax deduction can do for the 50K family is hand them $250. Meanwhile, a family making $500K/year (yes, that's where Trump put the cap) can take a deduction for the average cost of childcare in their area; if we use the $7,000 figure in Trump's plan at the 39.6% rate, that's $2772/year off your taxes.

Trump's childcare plan was always really just a new child tax deduction, a particularly regressive one, with no plans to pay for it or understanding of how the money would be distributed by income. And that's the problem. His plan was a fantasy-land handful of bullet points that would hand a check to people making $500K/year while giving nothing to a family making a tenth of that, but people believed it was actual policy on par with any plan Clinton put out.

Finally, I'll note that Trump's child care tax deduction plan doesn't seem to appear anywhere on greatagain.gov, which just might be an indication of just how utterly unimportant it is to him or how low a priority it is. Did people who believed in his plan get hoodwinked?
posted by zachlipton at 9:44 AM on November 16, 2016 [18 favorites]

> I think the person at fault in that case isn't the immigrant, it's the farm owner who hires them illegally

"I only used Chinese steel because la-hoooooo-zers like you didn't make it impossible!"

...I took it as read that the person you'd be trying to have this conversation with would be Uncle Sid as opposed to Trump himself.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:45 AM on November 16, 2016

Yes, let's send Muslims on a "get to know us" tour of economically disadvantaged areas, at a time when anti Muslim hate crime is at an all time high.

Hey, I'm just going to stop conversing with you about this topic for now, because you seem determined to take whatever I suggest and twist it something terrible that doesn't resemble anything I said.

This is why we can't have nice conversations.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:46 AM on November 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

BBC Syria conflict: Assad hopes for 'anti-terror ally' in Trump

Assad just described Trump as a "natural ally in that regard with the Russians, with the Iranians, with many other countries" if Trump delivers on his promise to "fight the terrorists."

This is not normal.
posted by zachlipton at 9:46 AM on November 16, 2016 [12 favorites]

Assad just described Trump as a "natural ally in that regard with the Russians, with the Iranians, with many other countries" if Trump delivers on his promise to "fight the terrorists."

This is not normal.

Hezbollah and Russia vs Israel! WHO WILL WIN!
posted by Talez at 9:47 AM on November 16, 2016

I think it's a strawman to say people are calling whites "racist" every single time, it's more that any attempt to assert your identity is "identity politics" and "crying racism."

I didn't mean that POCs asserting identity against white nationalism are calling whites racist. I guess I was responding to the idea of appeasement as white liberals turning a blind eye to white nationalism. And my response is no, no one should be turning a blind eye to bigotry. The problem is that the tendency for the white liberal coastal/urban intelligentsia to Other their brethren who are not coastal or intelligentsia, and so call Republican-voters "Nazis", which doesn't help solve the solution.
posted by Apocryphon at 9:47 AM on November 16, 2016

[P]resident-elect Donald Trump is holding meetings, interviews and starting to build his administration team . . .

Monsters of the id-- no longer stayin' hid
And terrors of the night are out in broad daylight
No need to knock on wood, don't stop to say a prayer
It won't do any good, they're multiplyin' in the air

Creatures of the deep are going without sleep
And phantoms of the dark have their own place to park
No need to lock the door, they're sprouting through the cracks
They're making room for more, they're deputizing maniacs

Prehistoric ghouls are making their own rules
And resurrected Huns are passin' out the guns
No need to cause a fuss don't go and make a scene
They know what's best for us, they're fightin' fire with gasoline

Creatures from the swampf rewrite their own Mein Kampf
Neanderthals amuck, just tryin' to make a buck
And goblins and their hags are out there wavin' flags
When will we be rid of monsters of the id?

-- Mose Allison, 1970

posted by Herodios at 9:48 AM on November 16, 2016 [4 favorites]

Is this right or fair? Not sure. I'm a big believer in the transformative power of higher education even if an increasing number of people attending university are focused on job skills and credentials instead of an enriching experience.

There's a lot of talking past each other here.

There is a conversation about "the working class" that is about culture and identity, but there is also one that is about work.

Companies no longer want to train people in-house for skilled jobs. They want people who've spent their own money -- or borrowed that money -- on certification or some other taught course, instead of paying them to learn. That's to say, skilled labour in developed economies has become the kind of work that requires paper qualifications, and that's hard to roll back.

We've seen kajillions in venture capital tossed at the "sharing economy" and "gig economy" on the premise that the future of work is poorer people on call to deliver shit to richer people, or to deliver richer people where they want to go.

There is a lot of shitty, gruelling, backbreaking work in the American economy -- the robots aren't going to end that -- but only some of it seems to count as "working class work". And that definition ties people up in knots. If the slaughterhouse paid $15/hr with benefits, would the people from the hammertruck factory take those jobs?

If everyone with a vacation home in a blue state sold it and built one in a purple state and lived, voted, and spent money there, we'd have a brighter outlook.

This is also where the culture side enters the equation, because when that happens, it's too often "outsiders" and "priced out of our own homes" and "shoving their values down our throats". There's a fair argument that the changing demographics of North Carolina turned conservative Democrats into Republicans.

Finally, it's worth looking at the historical trajectory associated with "the working class" as opposed to "poor people". There have always been poor people; the working class is a creation of the industrial era. It is tied to the idea of generational sacrifice (often requiring considerable upheaval) so that one's kids will not be working class. It is transitional. It is unstable.

To tie this all together somewhat: there's a question hanging over developed economies whether certain kinds of "working class work" can generate the escape velocity to propel their kids into the stable middle class, even as other work -- the dirtier, nastier work -- gets different groups of people a couple of rungs up the ladder.
posted by holgate at 9:49 AM on November 16, 2016 [7 favorites]

amnesia and magnets: "But smart, decent, kind, thoughtful people who can't/don't ever go to college do exist, and continuing to behave as though we're all just an indiscernible bunch of humans who are simply too stupid sorry, uneducated to have valid ideas about what's best for the country doesn't exactly do wonders when it comes to disabusing us of the notion that the movers and shakers in "our" party think they're demonstrably better and smarter than us."

You've posted comments like this a few times in election threads. One of them already made me so angry that cortex had to delete my response. So let's dive into this with maybe a little of the empathy you're asking for.

The form of what you've written is precisely the same form of argument that accompanies #notallmen hashtags. You've barely acknowledged or completely elided the reasons that people here are upset with the uneducated. You've posted about the pain you feel being part of this group that is excluded from our concern. You're lashing out against the politically correct elites who don't see the REAL problems.

This is not to say that your arguments are the moral equivalent of #notallmen, but at the least, it's the same argument. It's worth considering this as a red flag for what you're saying at the least.

The truth is, uneducated people who are somewhere between being comfortable and somewhat unhappy in their lives are the reason we're all here. You may not have yourself voted Trump, or sexually assaulted anyone, or thrown beer bottles at your black neighbors, but people like you are doing that, today and yesterday and tomorrow.

So when you come into these threads making these posts, I get what you're trying to say: that we should do a better job of being inclusive towards people who are either in fact or in feeling marginalized. But, the marginalization is no longer a fact. You and your brethren won, congratulations. And now it's perhaps time to accept that these criticisms and dismissals (while not all fair) have a truth in them. I'm sorry it hurts.
posted by TypographicalError at 9:50 AM on November 16, 2016 [6 favorites]

The Unpersuadables by Paul Waldman
posted by wittgenstein at 9:50 AM on November 16, 2016 [5 favorites]

I took it as read that the person you'd be trying to have this conversation with would be Uncle Sid as opposed to Trump himself

Sure, but Trump gave voice to all the Uncle Sids of the world with that rebuttal. If a thing isn't impossible, then it's permitted and, in fact, required in order to be competitive. If you're not shooting people as they cross the border, then I'll fall behind if I don't hire them for pennies on the dollar, because somebody else will.
posted by uncleozzy at 9:52 AM on November 16, 2016

Then encourage Muslims (and anyone else) to apply for those jobs, with the goal in diversifying largely white communities or regions so that those scared citizens get to know Muslims on a personal level.

Yes, let's send Muslims on a "get to know us" tour of economically disadvantaged areas, at a time when anti Muslim hate crime is at an all time high.

Better idea: donate to CAIR (Council on American-Islamic Relations), which does civil rights work, advocacy, outreach, and education on behalf of American Muslims.
posted by sunset in snow country at 9:53 AM on November 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

So out in the real world, what's today's crisis? Still calling electeds about Bannon?

Yes! I called Paul Ryan's office again today and left a message (202-225-3031, option 6). I'll be calling Sen. Schatz's office about it again when it opens. Sen. Hirono already came out against him, and I called yesterday to thank her, but I think I'll call again and tell her to keep up the fight.

I also contacted the NPR ombudsman about the Morning Edition Breitbart interview.

Reminder: When you call your reps, save their numbers in your phone! I read a tweet about Paul Ryan this morning, and rather than just tweeting something about it, I clicked on contacts-->Paul Ryan-->option 6 and I could leave my message directly for him. I'm not a constituent, it won't do anything. But it keeps his staff busy for 30 seconds, and that's 30 seconds in which they can't be aiding fascism. Troll Mode: activated.
posted by melissasaurus at 9:55 AM on November 16, 2016 [39 favorites]

Are we just reinventing the "Obama is planning to flood rural areas with lesbian farmers" conspiracy theory? Ultimately, while those people would get to vote in their new found homes (hopefully, barring voter suppression/intimidation), I think we're better off supporting local candidates who we (mostly, because no candidate is perfect) and building local democratic parties to help influence people who live in these places. I can tell you that no one in my hometown is changing their vote on the basis of meeting some big city type who moved into town because housing is cheap.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 9:57 AM on November 16, 2016 [4 favorites]

I think the set of liberals who call all Republicans nazis is roughly equal to the set of Republicans who call all liberals hippies.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 9:58 AM on November 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

To win, especially as a woman in a sexist society, Clinton would have had to be super charismatic and charming on the stump, and she was not.

There's that "asserted as fact" statement that Clinton was unlikeable again. How many times will we see this, for crying out loud? She was charming and delightful for me.
posted by agregoli at 9:59 AM on November 16, 2016 [29 favorites]

Why, though? I get why on a practical level we should believe that the politician in question will be able to figure out how to pay for it. But I don't get why we can't just have sound bytes that we like and that are appealing.

Because if we're going to cut taxes for some people, some combination of the following things must happen:

• Other people can pay more. If so, who and how much?
• Cut spending by the same amount (which spending and how much)?
• Increase the national debt
• Magical trickle-down fairies will make the tax cut pay for itself (note: we've tried this many times and it's never once come anywhere close to working, so it's really just "increase the national debt" with extra magic hours)

And I think if you're going to propose such a thing, you ought to at least be honest and organized enough to explain which you're proposing so people can make that decision knowing what will happen.
posted by zachlipton at 10:00 AM on November 16, 2016 [3 favorites]

First, because Trump hasn't given us any idea how he'd pay for it. That may sound like a Republican objection, but yeah, if you're going to give some people what amounts to a pretty sizable tax break, you need to be clear about how we're paying for it.

Oh I should be clear that I don't think Trump's plan was a reason to vote for him, even though it promised me a pretty big tax break (other people need the money a lot more than I do). He's obviously not going to pay for it (Republicans don't pay for their spending these days) and it's got all kinds of problems. I was just looking at what he was saying.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 10:01 AM on November 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

"the suspicion that Democrats were too close to Wall Street"

Jesus Christ, that's not a 'suspicion'. They're up to their necks in Wall Street, and any attempt to even remotely massage that fact away is an insult to the intelligence of the voters (who showed everyone just how sick of being insulted they really are).
posted by Coda Tronca at 10:03 AM on November 16, 2016 [9 favorites]

But Hillary Clinton's economic plan didn't speak to me, and I think that's worth noting, and it's something the Democrats should learn from. She didn't offer my family anything we could or would use. I still campaigned for her because fascism, but she didn't offer to alleviate the economic anxiety of myself or really anyone in my widespread family, who all wound up voting Trump because of it, who at least promised to seriously lower their taxes.

What would speak to you? You've done a lot of complaining but you really haven't explained what issues you are concerned about that Clinton should have addressed. Further, you haven't explained how Republicans have address them better. All we have heard is that you have economic anxiety.

Clinton put forward many policies to address economic inequality and economic insecurity, but you have rejected them all for some reason.
posted by JackFlash at 10:03 AM on November 16, 2016 [4 favorites]

I think the set of liberals who call all Republicans nazis is roughly equal to the set of Republicans who call all liberals hippies.

Those are both pretty big sets, in my estimation.
posted by Apocryphon at 10:07 AM on November 16, 2016

Politico tells staff regarding anti-Semitic threats: ‘Your personal safety is of the utmost importance to us’

Journalists are getting anti-Semitic threats mailed to them at home.
posted by zachlipton at 10:08 AM on November 16, 2016 [3 favorites]

The education gap among whites this year wasn’t about education. It was about race. [WaPo]

College-educated whites and whites who live in highly educated areas of the country have long been much more racially tolerant than other white Americans.

It turns out that this relationship between education and racial attitudes explains a very large portion of the education gap in white support for Trump. Indeed, the graphs below show that the negative effects of education on white support for Trump vanishes after accounting for attitudes about both African Americans and immigrants.

In fact, no other factor explained the education gap in white support for Trump as well as racial and ethnocentric attitudes — not partisanship, not ideology, not authoritarianism, not sexism, not income, not economic anxiety.

Simply put, the education divide in white support for Trump is largely a racial attitude gap.

[emphasis in original]
posted by melissasaurus at 10:08 AM on November 16, 2016 [30 favorites]

This poem is amazing.

Choose your leaders
with wisdom and forethought.
To be led by a coward
is to be controlled
by all that the coward fears.
To be led by a fool
is to be led
by the opportunists
who control the fool.
To be led by a thief
is to offer up
your most precious treasures
to be stolen.
To be led by a liar
is to ask to be told lies.
To be led by a tyrant
is to sell yourself
and those you love
into slavery.

-Octavia E. Butler, Parable of the Talents (Earthseed, #2)

Via @jelani9
posted by Golden Eternity at 10:09 AM on November 16, 2016 [15 favorites]

Clinton put forward many policies to address economic inequality and economic insecurity, but you have rejected them all for some reason.

It's just a fact that inequality and insecurity is structural and has got worse and worse for at least the last 30 years while politicians regaled the workforce with their various policies. It's not hard to see why people can't be bothered any more - with Clinton especially, since she gave secret paid speeches to Goldman Sachs in which she airily explained how one set of policies was for the public's ears while another set was what you actually carried out.
posted by Coda Tronca at 10:10 AM on November 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

Yes, let's send Muslims on a "get to know us" tour of economically disadvantaged areas, at a time when anti Muslim hate crime is at an all time high.

Hey, I'm just going to stop conversing with you about this topic for now, because you seem determined to take whatever I suggest and twist it something terrible that doesn't resemble anything I said.

This is why we can't have nice conversations.

Sorry, I just found your suggestion unworkable and out of touch, and it's exactly the kind of proposal I've seen all over the internets in the last week.
posted by zutalors! at 10:11 AM on November 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

Ok this New York Post cover today ("The West Bling") is excellent.
posted by zachlipton at 10:13 AM on November 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

We need to talk about the online radicalisation of young, white men - Abi Wilkinson

I do feel like there hasn't been enough attention, post election, to the incessant and rhetorically violent online harassment and bullying campaigns of the "alt-right" and things like Reddit red pill culture. It is hateful and nihilistic and denies any sincerity or empathetic impulse as something terrible like white knighting or (ugh) being a cuck. I think this vociferous presence on social media, spreading hateful lies and disinformation at every turn, had a lot more to do with people's feeling about Clinton and perhaps even low voter turnout, than her economic platform did, and yet I see mostly silence about this anonymous terrorist army from all the think pieces circulating this past week. They're in every comments section out there - maybe we're all smarties here who don't read the comments, but plenty of people do.
posted by Squeak Attack at 10:18 AM on November 16, 2016 [37 favorites]

Sure, but Trump gave voice to all the Uncle Sids of the world with that rebuttal. If a thing isn't impossible, then it's permitted and, in fact, required in order to be competitive. If you're not shooting people as they cross the border, then I'll fall behind if I don't hire them for pennies on the dollar, because somebody else will.

Okay, then, the response to that is exactly what Trump said himself - "if you wanted me to not do that, you should have stopped me." Meaning: rather than shooting people at the border, let's make it impossible for the CEOs TO hire them for pennies on the dollar.

To which Uncle Sid would most likely say "But Trump said he was going to do that himself, because he knows where the loopholes are."

To which you can respond - "if he's gotten himself rich by exploiting those loopholes, and CONTINUES to get rich exploiting those loopholes, do you REALLY trust him to be that quick to close them? Why would he? What's in it for him?...."

"Because....he wants to see his country improve."

"He could have done that by playing fair before this. But he didn't. What's changed?"
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:19 AM on November 16, 2016 [3 favorites]

I literally honestly have no idea what liberal politicians and humans can do on social media to counter this toxic force.
posted by Squeak Attack at 10:20 AM on November 16, 2016 [3 favorites]

Blocking and reporting is a good first step.
posted by pxe2000 at 10:21 AM on November 16, 2016

I literally honestly have no idea what liberal politicians and humans can do on social media to counter this toxic force.

Radical idea - don't use social media to do this. Do it the old fashioned way, with phone calls, conversations with individual people, and snail-mail letters.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:22 AM on November 16, 2016 [6 favorites]

"It's going to be okay" is a phrase that is physically possible to say. Whether the meaning is true or not." -Welcome to Night Vale.
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:23 AM on November 16, 2016

Looks like we used the red phone to warn the Russians about election meddling.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 10:23 AM on November 16, 2016 [4 favorites]

Whoops, Squeak attack was talking about the trolls - sorry. Then yes, blocking and reporting.

Sorry, I thought you were talking about using social media to get through to Uncle Sid.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:23 AM on November 16, 2016

Politico: Trump transition appears to have flouted internal ethics rule on lobbyists

Donald Trump’s transition team appears to have deviated from its own ethics rule barring lobbyists whose work for Trump would overlap with any matters on which they lobbied in the previous year.

According to a copy of Trump for America Inc’s “Code of Ethical Conduct” obtained by POLITICO, members of the transition team must pledge to “disqualify myself from involvement in any particular transition matter if I have engaged in regulated lobbying activities with respect to such matter, as defined by the Lobbying Disclosure Act, within the previous 12 months.”

But at least eight transition team members have done work that appears to flout that internal rule, Senate records show.

Draining the swamp, indeed.
posted by zachlipton at 10:27 AM on November 16, 2016 [6 favorites]

Bill being planned to restrict how Muslim women dress in Georgia.

House Bill 3, authored by state Rep. Jason Spencer, R-Woodbine, would bar women from wearing a burqa and veil when posing for the photo on their Georgia drivers’ license. The bill would also subject female Muslim garb to the state’s anti-masking statute – which originally was aimed at the Ku Klux Klan.

Spencer said his legislation was intended to apply to women who are driving on public roads, but the wording suggests the restriction might also apply to any kind of public property.

posted by melissasaurus at 10:27 AM on November 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

I do feel like there hasn't been enough attention, post election, to the incessant and rhetorically violent online harassment and bullying campaigns of the "alt-right" and things like Reddit red pill culture.

I had a weird conspiracy-theorizing-while-on-cold-meds moment the other night, thinking about that picture that got posted here of the swastika graffiti right next to a 4chan Triforce, and how there's always a gore thread floating around the front page of 4chan and how seeing stuff like that over and over really does kind of desensitize you to real-life graphic violence and who in the hell is it who methodically reposts their library of gore photos to 4chan day in and day out over the span of years and why?

And no, I don't actually believe that secret shadow puppetmasters have been deliberately grooming a generation of disaffected young men to become fascist shocktroopers by conditioning them with 4chan threads, but it's just funny how things shake out in the world sometimes, and by funny I mean [INCHOATE SCREAMING FOREVER]
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:27 AM on November 16, 2016 [12 favorites]

The Unpersuadables

Don't believe that Clinton could have won over Trump voters by talking about bread-and-butter issues.

We need to fight on all fronts. I don't think converting unpersuadable Trump voters is the main goal but to give more people not captured by conservative culture an alternative identity that works for them in red areas. This may mean allowing for more variety in our messaging, etc.

I think people care more about their own predicament than Wall Street. They may be just as likely to believe Wall Str can and is helping them than otherwise if told the right story. Bernie created a very strong message about "the 1%" that Hillary wasn't in a great position to use. I think the convention was great and she kind of disappeared after that. But I'm not sure Bernie was actually that convincing on how he would invest in the 99% either. Even he could have painted a fuller picture of how he would make things better.

I think the Dems should perhaps come up with something like "rural renewal" plans and maybe labor union renewal plans in areas that still have decent Democratic support that they can then show to the rest of the country to prove they have better, proven ideas on top of medicare, social security, ACA, college assistance etc. It may be a bit of an uphill climb if Trump actually succeeds with stimulus spending, etc.
posted by Golden Eternity at 10:27 AM on November 16, 2016 [3 favorites]

The majority of Trump voters make twice as much as I do, and somehow I manage to avoid voting based on skin color. Maybe they should try to understand me.

No effin' doubt.

Where's the nearly infinite stream of questions and hand-wringing and scolding articles about how the Republicans are failing to connect with religious/racial/ethnic minorities? Why didn't NPR have a bunch of interviews with LatinX and African-Americans in the working class who felt economic anxiety but didn't think Trump offered anything to them and liked what Clinton had to say better?

Why doesn't anyone who keeps making the argument that Trump's "plans" had appeal to WWC point out that no economist worth a good goddamn endorsed his economic platform?

I'm starting to wonder if it's not that our country is "broken" as some are saying but that reality is broken. Because when I look at what the GOP does nowadays, it becomes really hard to believe there was once a world where a Republican said, "Even the appearance of impropriety must be avoided."

When I look at the constant stream of bile Republicans direct toward Obama and Clinton, it's hard to believe there was a world where a Republican President left the letter for Bill Clinton that his predecessor left for him when he assumed office.

It's hard to believe there was once a world where Republicans proposed agencies and programs that would benefit all Americans, not just their corporate (and foreign state!) sponsors.

In fact, the more I look at the outcomes Republicans achieve when they act in bad faith and/or total incompetence from beginning to end, the more I feel like Frank Grimes when he loses his mind over all the things Homer is able to do or fail to do without consequence. Except this shit is far from funny.

Brag about a decrease in the number of black voters in the wake of the gutting of the VRA? Awesome, here's a state for Trump!

Claim to be the party of the military without doing anything to support active military (other than supporting the bases in and equipment manufactured in your own district) and doing less than nothing for veterans other than wrapping yourself in the flag at every opportunity? Awesome,let's ignore your failures and continue to hold Democrats accountable for stories about Vietnam veterans being spit on.

Commit a huge breach of decorum by shouting at a Democrat President "You lie!"? Cool, you're re-elected!!

Make vague pie in the sky promises about your financial plans and have most economists run screaming from your plans? Wow, I feel like you're appealing directly to me! This is so much better than your opponent's plans, whatever those are, amirite? Here's my vote!

Claim to be the party that is most Christ-like and Christian and religious and holy while displaying next to no knowledge of the Sermon on The Mount or Matthew 25: 34 - 40, and having affairs and engaging in all kinds of other sinful behaviors? Here's overwhelming support from evangelicals because IOKIYAR!

Talk about making the trains run on time, have a campaign commercial that is essentially lifted straight from the Protocols of the Elders of Zion? That's fine, we all know the Democrats are the real fascists and racists.

Meanwhile, for HRC and everyone else on the Dem side:
- Everything you do and say is closely policed and analyzed. No matter what you did or how you did it, you did it wrong. Here's a long list of what you need to do next time, and don't you dare point out that some items on the list contradict others or are impossible for anyone to actually pull off in the real world.

- Even while you wade through neck deep rivers of shit to get to places Republican white males can fail upwards into, you had better smile and show a winning personality while you do it, because otherwise we feel like you don't like us and we can't connect to you.

- You can say something that makes perfect sense, and we won't listen to you. When a Republican white male says that same thing, even if he mangles it or poorly articulates it, it's a brilliant idea.

- You need to apologize when you do something wrong and when we feel like you did something wrong.

- OMG, why did you apologize, you look weak when you apologize, lol! This is why people like Republicans more, because they're strong.

I swear to G-d, I sometimes feel like the theme song for Democrats and their supporters is "You Can't Win" from The Wiz.
posted by lord_wolf at 10:30 AM on November 16, 2016 [153 favorites]

Sorry, I thought you were talking about using social media to get through to Uncle Sid.

Nope. It's about Cousin Kevin...

When we fret about young people leaving western countries and going to fight with Isis, it’s common to focus on the role of the internet in their political radicalisation. It’s time we discussed the radicalisation of angry, young white men in a similar way.
---
Reading through the posting history of individual aliases, it’s possible to chart their progress from vague dissatisfaction, and desire for social status and sexual success, to full-blown adherence to a cohesive ideology of white supremacy and misogyny. Neofascists treat these websites as recruitment grounds. They find angry, frustrated young men and groom them in their own image.

posted by Mister Bijou at 10:31 AM on November 16, 2016 [5 favorites]

Bill being planned to restrict how Muslim women dress in Georgia.

and do you know who else restricts how muslim women dress?
posted by entropicamericana at 10:32 AM on November 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

“Rural America at a Glance, 2016 Edition,” [PDF] United States Department of Agriculture Economic Research Service, Economic Information Bulletin 162, November 2016
posted by ob1quixote at 10:32 AM on November 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

Man, lord_wolf, preach. That was awesome.
posted by zutalors! at 10:35 AM on November 16, 2016 [8 favorites]

And no, I don't actually believe that secret shadow puppetmasters have been deliberately grooming a generation of disaffected young men to become fascist shocktroopers by conditioning them with 4chan threads, but it's just funny how things shake out in the world sometimes, and by funny I mean [INCHOATE SCREAMING FOREVER]

So apart from Black Mirror becoming reality, there are also quite a few books becming all too relevant:

John Brunner - The Shockwave Rider
Jane Jacobs - Dark Age Ahead
Susan Jacoby - The Age of American Unreason
Neal Stephenson - Snowcrash (I'd also add The Big U)
posted by ocschwar at 10:37 AM on November 16, 2016 [3 favorites]

Per Twitter, Sen. Gillibrand is taking a tally of calls against Bannon.

If you're a New York resident, take a minute and call her office at 212-688-6262. People are reporting busy signals, but they say that they get through to a very nice staffer if they're persistent. Just let them know that she represents you and you oppose any role for Steve Bannon in the administration and appreciate the Senator's efforts. You could also try her DC office at 202-224-4451 if you can't get through.
posted by zachlipton at 10:39 AM on November 16, 2016 [12 favorites]

What would speak to you? You've done a lot of complaining but you really haven't explained what issues you are concerned about that Clinton should have addressed.

Off the top of my head - and mind you, I may be missing some reasons why some wouldn't work or a Democrat couldn't do them:

School vouchers, including for religious schools. I don't actually care about the religion provided, but the discipline and ability to remove problem kids is important to me. A prime concern with kids is figuring out how to afford Good Schools. This could also take the form of a tax deduction for all private school tuition paid.

Expanded merit college scholarships for above-average students of all kinds to private schools. This could take a lot of forms in how it's accomplished, but government scholarships today don't seem to cut much mustard.

Reform of the credit check system that currently affects every aspect of economic life. Barring federal or state agencies from sending small debts to outside collection agencies. Insisting on full removal of any paid collections debt from credit reports. Preventing resold debt from being reported like it was new.
posted by corb at 10:39 AM on November 16, 2016

One of the biggest problems with the whole reach out to rust belt white voters is that the process of reaching out to minority voters requires taking their concerns seriously. One of those concerns is around issues of race and white privilege, so we need to take that to heart and respond to that concern and try to address it. At the same time, one of the biggest white issues revolves around white identity anxiety, where they fear their way of life is vanishing due to encroachment on "their" space by minorities. Trump appealed to those white voters by saying he would act to restore white identity to its "rightful place" in his MAGA claims over immigration, Muslim registration, and so on. Those were his most dominant and specific "policies" and at the center of his campaign. It's almost entirely a non-rational response, and it was a non-rational choice his voters made in selecting him. There is almost nothing else to his campaign but that appeal, save for the rich or those who didn't pay any attention at all and voted by party or celebrity.

You cannot easily reconcile those positions without dropping the acknowledgement of minority issues. White privilege is incompatible with addressing white privilege obviously, so on that front we cannot court whites without erasing minority concern. We also can't simultaneously be rational and non-rational. We can certainly appeal to emotions, but behind that appeal there has to be real policy and real policy means limits to emotional appeal. We can't, as Trump did, flat out make shit up just because it sounds good. Within those limits, and within the abilities of whatever candidate will appear in the next presidential election, sure, the Democrats will obviously try to find a way to put out that candidates message in the best way possible to reach as many potential voters as they can. There's no division on that. That's just how it works. Now, how and where they devote their resources is an area that will need considering, but it too has limits in terms of time and people. So they'll make the best guess, based on whatever data they have, over what will be the most effective strategy. That's how campaigns are run.

What we can do is something more if we choose. We can work to persuade and/or protest to make our positions heard more effectively or to try and convince others of our positions individually. The language of protest is not the language of individual persuasion. When we talk about message we often elide the two since we're speaking of the campaign in general and not individual efforts. For the individual you have to decide who your audience is and what might work best to persuade them to alter their thinking and vote. For protest you need to agitate and gain notice as a group, so nuance is necessarily lost in gaining a political space. These two approaches should work together or they can undermine each other. If in private you promise something the public side, led by those who are in the groups being marginalized, denounces, you risk both trust and effectiveness as the message gets cancelled out. Appeals have to be grounded in the demands of those making the protests, but you can personalize the wording as long as you are not contradicting the message. So the public side of protest, either as a group or representing a group in some form of media, needs to call out racism, for example, for what it is. In private you don't need to call someone a racist as long as you can find another way to communicate the message that certain beliefs have toxic histories.

On the more positive side, you can certainly try to sell whatever policies are being proposed by your candidate in ways that best fit your audience as long as that pitch is truthful, and the demands of protesters or groups will be aimed at shaping policy as a whole. There is no conflict here unless one wants to elide the truthful dealing part or the areas of unbendable values which should be the bedrock of a campaign and party.
posted by gusottertrout at 10:42 AM on November 16, 2016 [6 favorites]

China Tells Trump That Climate Change Is No Hoax It Invented [real!]

China couldn’t have invented global warming as a hoax to harm U.S. competitiveness because it was Donald Trump’s Republican predecessors who started climate negotiations in the 1980s, China’s Vice Foreign Minister Liu Zhenmin said.

U.S. Presidents Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush supported the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change in initiating global warming talks even before China knew that negotiations to cut pollution were starting, Liu told reporters at United Nations talks on Wednesday in Marrakech, Morocco.

posted by zachlipton at 10:43 AM on November 16, 2016 [27 favorites]

I don't actually care about the religion provided, but the discipline and ability to remove problem kids is important to me.

Genuinely curious, does this statement not seem problematic to you? No one is going to be able to use vouchers to set up madrasas, it'll all be christian evangelical hate machines. And "problem kids" are usually the underprivileged or brown kids. I get that you think this would be a good idea, but you seem blind to the racial and religious consequences.
posted by TypographicalError at 10:43 AM on November 16, 2016 [12 favorites]

China Tells Trump That Climate Change Is No Hoax It Invented [real!]

Oh sure, that's what they'd have us believe!
posted by entropicamericana at 10:45 AM on November 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

Bill being planned to restrict how Muslim women dress in Georgia.

and do you know who else restricts how muslim women dress?

What does this mean?
posted by zutalors! at 10:47 AM on November 16, 2016

That should have been a slam dunk given the alternative, WTF happened?

A relentless campaign in the media and by word of mouth to characterize Clinton as dishonest and corrupt, led by Republicans and abetted by shitty journalists who think objectivity means false equivalence, by publishers who need those easy clicks and ad impressions from people who wanted their biases confirmed, and by regular folks like you and me who find it easier to just go along with the "conventional wisdom" that yeah Clinton is lame and nobody likes her lol in conversations with their friends, family, and coworkers.
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:47 AM on November 16, 2016 [8 favorites]

School vouchers, including for religious schools.

This is a non-issue in rural areas, where there are basically no private schools.

Expanded merit college scholarships for above-average students of all kinds to private schools.

Most of the rural students I talk to literally never considered going to a private college or university. Private schooling is just not a thing that exists in their universe.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 10:47 AM on November 16, 2016 [4 favorites]

@asnoel

Richard Engel just said on NBC that some generals are reading the Constitution to determine their authority to override the President. Wow.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 10:47 AM on November 16, 2016 [28 favorites]

I don't actually care about the religion provided, but the discipline and ability to remove problem kids is important to me.

See and I think this is part of where we're going to have trouble with coalition building (not intractable trouble, but trouble), I represent (legally through my work), in large part, those problem kids. I would hate (and do hate where it happens) to see my tax dollars going to support schools that aren't serving everyone. I would have trouble voting for my tax dollars to go to what, in parts of the country, are legacy segregation academies and, given how "school choice" tends to play out in practice, in terms of how much the vouchers get you and how can actually afford to take advantage of them, would wind up being another tool for the re-segregation of our schools. School choice to me, and I think a lot of the left, looks like burning down one of our country's best institutions for no good reason at all.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 10:48 AM on November 16, 2016 [23 favorites]

And "problem kids" are usually the underprivileged or brown kids.

Yep. And if they can be expelled from the voucher-fed private system, they're thrown into the public system, which is the "beast" that vouchers are designed to starve. Someone has to educate these kids, and under a voucher system the kids most needing attention will be put into an overtaxed system least able to accommodate them.
posted by murphy slaw at 10:49 AM on November 16, 2016 [17 favorites]

Bill being planned to restrict how Muslim women dress in Georgia.

and do you know who else restricts how muslim women dress?

What does this mean?

The Taliban, Saudi Arabia, (some) other Muslim governments and sects. You know, the ones that the GOP is so afraid of imposing sharia law on the U.S.
posted by Etrigan at 10:49 AM on November 16, 2016 [6 favorites]

House Bill 3, authored by state Rep. Jason Spencer, R-Woodbine, would bar women from wearing a burqa and veil when posing for the photo on their Georgia drivers’ license. The bill would also subject female Muslim garb to the state’s anti-masking statute – which originally was aimed at the Ku Klux Klan.

Spencer said his legislation was intended to apply to women who are driving on public roads, but the wording suggests the restriction might also apply to any kind of public property.

US federal law requires passport photos to show faces. If they didn't, a passport would lose its utility as an ID. It is an identification document, after all. Obscuring the face defeats the purpose. When face-covering legislation related to driver's license photos was challenged in Florida, the state ruled that faces must remain uncovered in photos. So there's precedent and some logic to be found in such a law.

Applying an anti-masking statute to women who are observing a religious requirement while in public is horrific bigotry and unjustifiable.
posted by zarq at 10:50 AM on November 16, 2016 [9 favorites]

the kids most needing attention will be put into an overtaxed system least able to accommodate them.

Yeah, which is why "separate but equal" failed.
posted by zutalors! at 10:50 AM on November 16, 2016 [3 favorites]

Radical idea - don't use social media to do this. Do it the old fashioned way, with phone calls, conversations with individual people, and snail-mail letters.

It will take both.
Like it or not social media and the digital ecology that supports it, is in stark political terms a playing field. This is not going to go away. 'The Right' for want of a better term, as well as commercial interests catering to feed it use, it very effectively and will continue to do so. The worst thing would be abandoning it and leaving it to them to continue on with no challenge. If anything strategies for mounting more concerted counters the the deluge of propaganda that this administration and it's diehards are going to put out there is even more important then before.

I agree with old fashioned methods completely. They do work. It should not be a choice between one or the other.
posted by Jalliah at 10:50 AM on November 16, 2016 [3 favorites]

Radical idea - don't use social media to do this. Do it the old fashioned way, with phone calls, conversations with individual people, and snail-mail letters.

What even. 100,000 people could easily read angry spewage on a post on Facebook. 100,000 people aren't going to read your snail mail letter.

Blocking and reporting is a good first step.

What even. I don't think you guys have any idea what I'm talking about. I'm not talking about my personal Twitter (I don't have a Twitter.) How do I block and report this - Hillary Was Drunk, Got Physical With Mook and Podesta ? That article suddenly showed up posted all over newspaper comments sections on 11/15 - either the same guy with a million accounts or a concentrated attack. Open your eyes.
posted by Squeak Attack at 10:51 AM on November 16, 2016 [5 favorites]

his newest aircraft carrier just arrived off the coast which nearly doubles the number of aircraft he has operating in the area now.

I don't want to be pedantic but this is a carrier launched in 1985 and in fact their only carrier, so yes it is "his newest" but
posted by Rumple at 10:51 AM on November 16, 2016 [4 favorites]

Problem kids

This one is actually a really complicated conundrum! On the one hand, those kids certainly deserve an education, but if they're taking up 80% of the teacher's focus and constantly disrupting class, they're depriving the rest of the students of a quality education.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 10:53 AM on November 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

France restricts what muslim women are allowed to wear.
posted by Coda Tronca at 10:54 AM on November 16, 2016 [3 favorites]

We can't, as Trump did, flat out make shit up just because it sounds good

If it saves lives, why not?

Evil always starts with someone saying "I know this is a bad thing, but those people deserve it."
posted by Etrigan at 10:56 AM on November 16, 2016 [6 favorites]

This one is actually a really complicated conundrum! On the one hand, those kids certainly deserve an education, but if they're taking up 80% of the teacher's focus and constantly disrupting class, they're depriving the rest of the students of a quality education.

We have a solution for this! It's special education! It's chronically underfunded and expensive and some districts hate it, but if you take the kids with ADHD driven impulsivity and emotional disturbances and give them extra support, we can accomplish both goals without too much sacrifice on either side.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 10:57 AM on November 16, 2016 [11 favorites]

Here's overwhelming support from evangelicals because IOKIYAR!

And they voted for this motherfucker over a Sunday school teacher and a missionary.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:58 AM on November 16, 2016 [9 favorites]

What’s the Matter with Stephen Colbert?
posted by melissasaurus at 10:59 AM on November 16, 2016 [9 favorites]

@mapocoloco: Editor's note: The New York Times reports that Kevin O'Connor, who was leading Donald Trump's Justice Department transition team, is out
posted by Golden Eternity at 10:59 AM on November 16, 2016 [5 favorites]

Good to know, let's fix that. We can start by helping them get there and helping them pay for it.

That might be a good idea, although I'm personally a lot more invested in preventing the complete evisceration of public education systems. But my point is that you can't say that this election came down to losing the trust of rural voters and then claim that Clinton could have done better by raising issues that truly don't matter to rural voters.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 11:00 AM on November 16, 2016 [3 favorites]

Donald Trump sticking it to the elites by making it so that every single American eventually gets a turn on his transition team.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 11:00 AM on November 16, 2016 [28 favorites]

France is incredibly islamophobic in general.

Part of that is their firm commitment to secular democracy and some of that is built on decades of shoving immigrants into various communities on the periphery of Paris.

I like France but holding them up as a model in regards to religious tolerance is a bad idea.
posted by vuron at 11:04 AM on November 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

If it saves lives, why not?

Because, in part, the Dem coalition is always the more fragile one, with more interests involved and, god help us, more know-it alls like us here, ready to pick fights and sometimes even bail out if people aren't on roughly the same page. Republicans are the more "Go team! Rah! Rah! Rah!" party, which they get by appealing to more low information voters who often vote by how much they like someone rather than policy. The Dems have that too of course, but it isn't as much the center of their campaigns as they have to rely too much on appealing to a more diverse group with differing demands that requires representing those demands well or losing part of the coalition. That's why Clinton and Obama among others are so policy oriented rather than just telling everyone what they want to hear even if it can't be done.
posted by gusottertrout at 11:05 AM on November 16, 2016 [4 favorites]

A prime concern with kids is figuring out how to afford Good Schools.

I'm not going to go over the standard political points about education or the problems of localised funding.

The big issue in the immediate context of the election is that "school choice" becomes a shorthand for "defining the scope of my kids' social environment". That happens implicitly, of course, whenever families move "for the schools", but there are lots of problems with policies that divert public money into creating schools that don't reflect what the public looks like as a whole, whether on a local level or a national one.
posted by holgate at 11:05 AM on November 16, 2016 [5 favorites]

Evil always starts with someone saying "I know this is a bad thing, but those people deserve it."

Liberals make stuff up, but we do it as satire, not as propaganda. It's one of our most powerful tools, because it highlights absurdities, and yet everyone knows it is a joke in service of truth.

I'll take that over lies anyday.
posted by maxsparber at 11:06 AM on November 16, 2016 [8 favorites]

To win, especially as a woman in a sexist society, Clinton would have had to be super charismatic and charming on the stump, and she was not.

There's that "asserted as fact" statement that Clinton was unlikeable again. How many times will we see this, for crying out loud? She was charming and delightful for me.

She was not unlikeable; she is a warm and personable human being and I admire her. But she is not relaxed on the stump. She is stiff at a podium (possibly not at rallies, but during the convention, absolutely.) And she knows this about herself! She'd be the first to tell you.

Having that kind of stage charm is not about your worth, it is a particular skill set/talent that not everyone has. For example, I've known many talented musicians that had a hard time revving up the crowd--not due to their playing but because they could not do the front man/connecting with/seducing people thing. They usually end up being backup people in a band or releasing studio work. They are perfectly nice people. They just don't have stage magnetism.

Unfortunately, to make it over all the other mountains in her way (a Democrat, a woman, 30 fucking years of attacks, a corrupt and lazy media chasing eyeballs) a little more of that talent might have put Clinton over the top, especially against a guy who is better at that sort of thing/has a unique story.

This is not how I want humanity to be. But it is, for now, how we are. If we can find a candidate who is compellingly watchable/personable, and also has the same great platform/GOTV, we have a better chance. It doesn't have to be Beyonce, it just has to be someone more appealing than Trump/Pence.
posted by emjaybee at 11:07 AM on November 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

That isn't to say Dems or "us" are smarter, just that there is a different dynamic in play in the looser coalition and that the appeals being made often aren't as directly emotional.
posted by gusottertrout at 11:07 AM on November 16, 2016

That isn't to say Dems or "us" are smarter, just that there is a different dynamic in play in the looser coalition and that the appeals being made often aren't as directly emotional.


guise

being the party of facts is just killing us out there
posted by murphy slaw at 11:10 AM on November 16, 2016 [13 favorites]

I like France but holding them up as a model in regards to religious tolerance is a bad idea.

I meant the reverse - but they do it under a 'socialist' president. Anyway, just a derail, apologies.
posted by Coda Tronca at 11:10 AM on November 16, 2016

I absolutely think we ran the best candidate we had. Yes, it would be nice if she had the magnetic charisma of her husband or Obama, but firstly that's extremely rare and secondly I'm not sure that that's not gendered, that we're trained to look for charisma in men, and men are trained to develop it, in ways that wouldn't work for a woman.

I don't know this for a fact, but I have a strong feeling that if Hillary Clinton had Bill Clinton's charisma, she would actually have been burned at the stake as a witch.
posted by maxsparber at 11:11 AM on November 16, 2016 [43 favorites]

Evil always starts with someone saying "I know this is a bad thing, but those people deserve it."

Do you or do you not think that Trump is a dangerous white nationalist?

Do you think that a single life will be saved from Trumpism by lying about policy positions? There's some magic program that we can claim will be revenue-neutral that will make someone say "Oh, gosh, I guess I don't hate the blacks so much, now that you've proposed free puppies"?
posted by Etrigan at 11:12 AM on November 16, 2016 [3 favorites]

I'm sure this is very funny for you but as a POC I cannot tell you how incredibly alienating and frustrating it is to see this kind of self-congratulation being prioritized. I feel like I am looking down the barrel of a gun.


sorry, i'm scared as hell and whistling past the graveyard.
posted by murphy slaw at 11:13 AM on November 16, 2016 [10 favorites]

Did he actually have blind spots on race in the article linked? If so, what? He addresses the ethnic split in votes in the article and specifically says that it is troubling to only have one party with effective rhetoric on economic concerns because that party is functionally the "white" party. He's making an argument (albeit an oblique one) that it's dangerous if a vote for economic reform has to be inherently tied to a vote for whiteness. I agree, of course. There's no reason that it needs to be that way. The Dems can effectively address economic concerns just as well (or better) than Republicans can.

I have now read the article in question and I stand by my initial, albeit knee-jerk, comment. He dedicates a dismissive three sentences to the problem of white supremacy:

In addition, the increasing role of ethnicity in American politics does not bode well for the future if new compromises are not found. In the United States, 60% of the white majority votes for one party while over 70% of the minorities vote for the other. In addition to this, the majority is on the verge of losing its numerical advantage (70% of the votes cast in 2016, as compared with 80% in 2000 and 50% forecast in 2040).

The remainder of the article is committed to a discussion of the global economic causes of resurgent fascism, with little if any reference to race and (im)migration.

The article is true as far as it goes, but also contributes to racist discourse in two important ways:

(a) It erases the difference between the white half of the working class which voted Trump and the black and brown half of the working class which voted Clinton; and

(b) It magnifies the difference between the white working class and the white middle class, giving aid and comfort to exactly that group which is most privileged (next to the actual elite/governing class) as they mournfully decry the boorish racism of the lower classes of their ethnic group while angrily protesting criticism of their own quiet support for white nationalist policy.

A generous reading could lead to the conclusion you find, namely that Pilketty is "making an argument (albeit an oblique one)" about the dangers of the party of economic populism being also the party of white supremacy. I agree that this is true; I do not think the argument should be made obliquely, but should be centered and clear. I think Pilketty is downplaying that and for the reasons that zutalors and others have been zealously outlining in this thread over the last week.

The analysis must begin with white racial anxiety, although it cannot end there.
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:16 AM on November 16, 2016 [6 favorites]

Donald Trump sticking it to the elites by making it so that every single American eventually gets a turn on his transition team.

Sortition works!
posted by Apocryphon at 11:16 AM on November 16, 2016 [3 favorites]

Single payer health care is a big one. You may reasonably see it as lying to claim that it can happen, but I see it picking up a ton of people who voted 3rd party or sat at home.

I don't see an assertion that single-payer is politically viable as anywhere near "flat out mak[ing] shit up".
posted by Etrigan at 11:17 AM on November 16, 2016

Sorry, I just found your suggestion unworkable and out of touch, and it's exactly the kind of proposal I've seen all over the internets in the last week.

Fair enough. Then what do you think will work to pull people who voted for Trump to vote Democratic?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:24 AM on November 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

It's Time to Pay More Attention to Jared Kushner
posted by Golden Eternity at 11:25 AM on November 16, 2016 [4 favorites]

NYT: Donald Trump Says He’d ‘Absolutely’ Require Muslims to Register

Donald J. Trump, who earlier in the week said he was open to requiring Muslims in the United States to register in a database, said on Thursday night that he “would certainly implement that — absolutely.”

Mr. Trump was asked about the issue by an NBC News reporter and pressed on whether all Muslims in the country would be forced to register. “They have to be,” he said. “They have to be.’’

posted by melissasaurus at 11:26 AM on November 16, 2016 [7 favorites]

Well Single-Payer is definitely politically feasible if Republicans remove the legislative filibuster. It won't happen immediately but it's much easier to anticipate the Democrats getting the trifecta sooner rather than later especially if the Republicans try to fuck with Medicare.

Simple up-or-down votes on Single-Payer would be pretty easy to ram through. Yeah the insurance industries would throw an absolute shit fit but getting 51 votes is way easier than getting 60 votes.

This is pretty much why the Senate Republicans might saber-rattle with the getting rid of the filibuster but they are unlikely to follow through. Trying to dismantle entitlements will be incredibly unpopular across huge demographics and would certainly result in a backlash.

Is putting in a phase-out of Medicare that would be easily reversed within the decade and then expanded upon with a single-payer system really a smart move for Republicans?
posted by vuron at 11:27 AM on November 16, 2016

This is a perfect example. Why is this the Republican policy and not the Democratic one? What stopped Clinton from taking her childcare tax cut proposal, and taking the feminist step of valuing women's unpaid labor and granting credit for stay at home moms as well - a proposal that would also benefit WOC?

Corb, I can help you with this. Let's speculate as to what would have happened had Clinton actually said this. Right-Wing headlines read "Feminazis Demand Federal Handouts for Eating Bon-Bons." Ann Coulter & her ilk get all over Fox news declaring that hardworking American women don't want government handouts. Someone rolls out even more hateful "Welfare Queen" memes on Twitter, preferrably with apocryphal tales of illegal immigrants telling other "illegals" to have as many children as possible and milk the system. Another case of IOKIYAR.
posted by Kitty Stardust at 11:28 AM on November 16, 2016 [15 favorites]

Sorry, I just found your suggestion unworkable and out of touch, and it's exactly the kind of proposal I've seen all over the internets in the last week.

Fair enough. Then what do you think will work to pull people who voted for Trump to vote Democratic?

I don't know, I was asking you. I'm not sure there is a way, because they are too racist or ignorant to be reached.

I don't really want to circle back to the "appease white voters or they'll get racist on you!" discussion, but that's just not something I'm willing to do - and you and others seem to think it's not appeasement because it's about the economy, and I and others disagree. So.
posted by zutalors! at 11:28 AM on November 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

Single payer gets nonviable pretty quickly when you start adding up the job losses. (That's also part of the cost savings, but...)
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 11:30 AM on November 16, 2016

Then what do you think will work to pull people who voted for Trump to vote Democratic?

A media that works to inform and enlighten the electorate.

Seriously, working class / message / race - not the point. Or they are secondary at best. Jesus herself couldn't get elected with a 30-year smear campaign compounded daily by social media.

Open your eyes . . . and get the f- off of Facebook. Your troll is coming from inside the house.
posted by petebest at 11:32 AM on November 16, 2016 [5 favorites]

For context melissasaurus' article above is from last november.
posted by winna at 11:33 AM on November 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

Why does Trump seem to think that a federal registry of all Muslims would be remotely constitutional? Yeah they'll replace Scalia with some right-wing troll in the SCOTUS but the language around freedom of religion is pretty baked in and I'm not even the most partisan justices on the court would be willing to side with a Trump administration over that.

It's also completely unmanageable. Do they send census workers around and have them ask "What is your religious status?" Who would actually answer honestly?
posted by vuron at 11:34 AM on November 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

A media that works to inform and enlighten the electorate.

"Game Over Man, GAME OVER!"
posted by kirkaracha at 11:35 AM on November 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

Why does Trump seem to think that a federal registry of all Muslims would be remotely constitutional?

I think I see the problem here.
posted by Etrigan at 11:36 AM on November 16, 2016 [13 favorites]

But there have to be a lot of non-Clinton-voters who aren't also Trump voters, right?

There are a lot of third-party voters and people who sat this election out. Correct me if I'm wrong (seriously) but I don't think you have the same kinds of issues in terms of race with a Gary Johnson voter or a Jill Stein voter, or with a black voter who stayed home, that you do with a Trump voter. Maybe that's less about threading the needle and more about stringing some beads on yarn. (I'm lost in this metaphor but I hope you get what I'm saying.)

Maybe that's where we start. What do people think?

I agree with this. I'm also on board with throwing out a lot of Democratic party leadership at this point and rewarding those who are doing well, and pushing the ones doing less well.
posted by zutalors! at 11:37 AM on November 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

Why would they need a registry? They would get all the information they need from our online presences combined with surveillance and official records. They could have a registry right now and we'd never know it.
posted by Kitty Stardust at 11:37 AM on November 16, 2016

For context melissasaurus' article above is from last november.

Thanks! It popped up on my feed as new and I didn't realize it was a year old.
posted by melissasaurus at 11:37 AM on November 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

I just called and left a message for Paul Ryan asking him to publicly denounce Mr Trump's choice of Steve Bannon as chief strategist. (Autocorrect wanted me to write "Paul Aryan," heh.)

Then I phoned the local office of my Republican congressman and spoke with a nice woman who sounded like she's been fielding a whole bunch of this type of call. Unexpectedly I became a bit emotional when I told her that my grandfather fought Nazis at the Battle of the Bulge, and I said I was almost happy he wasn't around to see neo-Nazis in the White House. I apologised for being so upset, and she said it was okay, in comforting tones.

Both of those numbers are saved in my phone now, in the "faves" group usually reserved for oft-called friends and family. Thanks for the tips, Melissasaurus.
posted by salix at 11:38 AM on November 16, 2016 [21 favorites]

It's frustrating to see this focus on white white white, no doubt. I particularly am frustrated by the lack of interest in interrogating the (relatively) low black and latin@ turnout for Clinton. That should have been a slam dunk given the alternative, WTF happened? How can we make it not happen again?

I agree with the sentiment I've seen mooted around the 'nets that Dems made a fatal mistake in thinking that the surge of black voters that came out for Obama in '08 and '12 were voting for them. They were instead voting for Obama and pulled the D lever while they were in the booth anyway.

My fantasy election rerun has the Obamas rotating continuously between Milwaukee, Flint, Detroit, Cleveland, Columbus and Charlotte. I think that would have done it.
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:39 AM on November 16, 2016

Why would they need a registry? They would get all the information they need from our online presences combined with surveillance and official records. They could have a registry right now and we'd never know it.

Public intimidation and humiliation. For one.
posted by zutalors! at 11:41 AM on November 16, 2016 [6 favorites]

Why does Trump seem to think that a federal registry of all Muslims would be remotely constitutional?

SCOTUS decides what is constitutional. Trumpists will control SCOTUS.

There are no institutions left to save us. There are no internal mechanisms by which their policies will be effectively struck down. We have to resist nonetheless. We have to organize. "We are the ones we've been waiting for."
posted by melissasaurus at 11:41 AM on November 16, 2016 [14 favorites]

A media that works to inform and enlighten the electorate.

"Game Over Man, GAME OVER!"

Yup. Find a new NPR News, cause that one's been dead since "enhanced interrogation".

Fortunately, NYT "Public Editor" Liz Spayd can inform us why false equivalence is super ok.
posted by petebest at 11:42 AM on November 16, 2016

They would get all the information they need from our online presences combined with surveillance and official records.

If that's the case, I would like to state now for the official record that I am a Muslim. Saves me the problem of having to register as a Muslim when he starts the registry, or whatever else I have to do to overload the system with false positives.
posted by maxsparber at 11:42 AM on November 16, 2016

Why does Trump seem to think that a federal registry of all Muslims would be remotely constitutional?

The current proposal, as I understand it, would be a revival of a Bush era registry of immigrants from certain countries that surprise surprise are majority Muslim. This is a lot more likely to survive a court challenge. A good time to remember that "not unconstitutional" is the lowest threshold endorsement of a law possible.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 11:42 AM on November 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

If single-payer were passed tomorrow, my job would vanish and I would be the happiest fellow in the unemployment line. There is immense human capital being wasted in the incessant back and forth between insurers, providers and patients over who pays for what and how much. Please put me and the other x number of social workers, insurance industry workers and billing department people to work doing something that actually needs doing, rather than trying to plug holes in this patchwork monstrosity.

Not to mention the immense benefits that will accrue to every American as their premiums plummet, their network requirements evaporate and their healthcare-related paperwork gets slashed like an entitlement program in a Ryan budget.

Ugh. Back to reality, now.
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:46 AM on November 16, 2016 [28 favorites]

I'm Spartacus a Muslim.
posted by kirkaracha at 11:47 AM on November 16, 2016 [6 favorites]

NYT: Donald Trump Says He’d ‘Absolutely’ Require Muslims to Register

This article is a year old.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:10 PM on November 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

Nate Cohn: Clinton really might have won college educated whites, btw. The exit polls have a weird bias on this. (And Obama '08 might have, too)

So there's that. I hope he's right.
posted by Justinian at 12:16 PM on November 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

Sources tell me Donald Trump is now considering Governor Nikki Haley for Secretary of State.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:16 PM on November 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

Sources tell me Donald Trump is now considering Governor Nikki Haley for Secretary of State.

Is there any evidence that Haley has ever left the state of South Carolina, much less the U.S.?
posted by Etrigan at 12:20 PM on November 16, 2016 [3 favorites]

at this point i'm preeety sure that donald trump doesn't know what the state department does
posted by murphy slaw at 12:26 PM on November 16, 2016 [34 favorites]

Sends out seekrit emails to our enemies, like Russ- . . wait.
posted by petebest at 12:27 PM on November 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

It's the department for states, like South Carolina obvs.
posted by winna at 12:28 PM on November 16, 2016 [26 favorites]

Is there any evidence that Haley has ever left the state of South Carolina, much less the U.S.?

In Trump's America, having relevant experience to a particular job means you're overqualified. You're still worth hiring, but not in any related field.

"You have a medical degree? Sorry, I don't want you to be a doctor - I'm having you work in accounting."

"You have experience in accounting? Why would you want to work in our accounting department. I'm going to have you head up the Secret Service."

"You're trained as a bodyguard? Great, I have this tooth problem I'd like you to look at..."
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:29 PM on November 16, 2016 [5 favorites]

This article is a year old.

That's like 100 years in Donald Trump Opinion Time, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
posted by emjaybee at 12:30 PM on November 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

Trump is considering Eva Moskowitz as Secretary of Education. See: At a Success Academy Charter School, Singling Out Pupils Who Have ‘Got to Go’
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:31 PM on November 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

I don't give a shit if Nikki Haley thinks Narnia and Westeros are real countries and that the only responsibility of the State Department is to binge-watch episodes of The State if it means Bolton or Giuliani are kept way the hell fuck away from that job
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:32 PM on November 16, 2016 [54 favorites]

Is there any evidence that Haley has ever left the state of South Carolina, much less the U.S.?

Hilariously, her parents immigrated to Canada and thence to South Carolina, where Nikki was born. I suppose that makes her an anchor baby?

Anyway, she lukewarmly supported removing the Confederate flag from the state capitol, and she lukewarmly opposed a 'bathroom bill', so that's something. She's probably the least-worst person to be floated as a possible member of the administration so far.
posted by jedicus at 12:33 PM on November 16, 2016 [26 favorites]

Is there any evidence that Haley has ever left the state of South Carolina, much less the U.S.?

Nikki Haley is the Republican who stared down neoconfederate shitbags and got the confederate flag taken down in South Carolina. Being able to swing that is not the worst qualification for a negotiator.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:33 PM on November 16, 2016 [22 favorites]

if it means Bolton or Giuliani are kept way the hell fuck away from that job

At this point it feels like we're playing Russian Roulette with where Giuliani ends up; State? AG? Homeland Security? No good options, but subtly different shades of terrible.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 12:35 PM on November 16, 2016 [4 favorites]

The president-elect : Barack Obama :: Clarence Thomas : Thurgood Marshall
posted by kirkaracha at 12:35 PM on November 16, 2016 [4 favorites]

Reform of the credit check system that currently affects every aspect of economic life. Barring federal or state agencies from sending small debts to outside collection agencies. Insisting on full removal of any paid collections debt from credit reports. Preventing resold debt from being reported like it was new.

Yeah... About that. The CFPB was doing a bunch of work in this area, focusing on debt collectors, better dispute procedures, better documentation requirements so they have to prove ownership, prevent zombie debt, etc... They were proposing new rules that would require debt to be substantiated, limit the number of calls debt collectors can make, and stop collections of debts under dispute. They'd already ordered large debt collectors to make hundreds of millions of dollars worth of refunds for illegal practices. It was, little by little, quiet progress.

Today's WSJ: GOP, Business Groups Launch Campaign to Constrain CFPB. Trump plans to "dismantle" Dodd-Frank and Congress has been attacking the CFPB since it was created.

Maybe Democrats should have talked about it more (and been attacked for supporting "job killing regulation" as a result), but this is an issue we were already doing something about, and if it's one that's so important to white middle class rural voters, they just voted to make it worse.
posted by zachlipton at 12:36 PM on November 16, 2016 [8 favorites]

Why does Trump seem to think that a federal registry of all Muslims would be remotely constitutional?

SCOTUS decides what is constitutional. Trumpists will control SCOTUS.

Even if Trump appointed 2 to SCOTUS, some of his proposals like the Muslim registry could easily be rejected by right-wingers who see it as an assault on the First Amendment. So it's entirely possible that even a right-wing SCOTUS majority could find some of his proposals unconstitutional. That said, given Trump's lack of respect for political norms, I find it entirely probable - and absolutely terrifying - that he would just ignore the Court and declare their opinion illegimate/irrelevant/whatever and continue on however he wants. At that point we are truly in a crisis of institutional breakdowns.
posted by gatorae at 12:37 PM on November 16, 2016

I think Nikki Haley is kind of okay, actually. She works within some pretty severe constraints, but for a South Carolina Republican she isn't so bad. If you're saying "who can we pick for SoS who would at least try to learn how to do a good job rather than just fucking it up for self-aggrandizement", you could do worse.
posted by Frowner at 12:38 PM on November 16, 2016 [14 favorites]

Nikki Haley is the Republican who stared down neoconfederate shitbags and got the confederate flag taken down in South Carolina

That was less of a leading principled stand and more of an eventual milquetoast agreement after a woman POC physically climbed the flagpole and ripped it down and was escorted away by police if memory serves.
posted by lazaruslong at 12:38 PM on November 16, 2016 [23 favorites]

I hate this idea of "problem children" Ave that they should easily be denied an education because... they are annoying or distracting.

There are way to many disadvantaged kids with no actual problems learning, who can succeed in school if we have compassion, resources and just let them!

So so so many child behavioral problems are solvable. So many kids desperately need a refuge from their homes for a variety of reasons. And every kid needs to learn!

I'm against explosion except in serious safety violations, none of this BS zero tolerance you brought a butter knife to school violations. They shouldn't be able to bounce kids around everywhere.
posted by AlexiaSky at 12:40 PM on November 16, 2016 [3 favorites]

I will just say that eventual milquetoast agreement with keeping the confederate flag off of the capitol area is waaaaay, way more and better than I was expecting from the government of South Carolina.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:41 PM on November 16, 2016 [12 favorites]

That was less of a leading principled stand and more of an eventual milquetoast agreement after a woman POC physically climbed the flagpole and ripped it down and was escorted away by police if memory serves.

There should be a damn statue of Bree Newsome, a big one, for that.
posted by zachlipton at 12:41 PM on November 16, 2016 [21 favorites]

The fact that the Muslim registry will be modeled off a pre existing Bush II era immigrant registry is horrifying because:

1) it's horrifying

2) it has precedent

3) I didn't fucking know about it in the Bush era.
posted by zutalors! at 12:46 PM on November 16, 2016 [10 favorites]

"the suspicion that Democrats were too close to Wall Street"

Jesus Christ, that's not a 'suspicion'. They're up to their necks in Wall Street, and any attempt to even remotely massage that fact away is an insult to the intelligence of the voters (who showed everyone just how sick of being insulted they really are).

If a lot of people buy this fully, then the Democrats are truly screwed, and the only viable political position left will be Republican embrace of the interests of the rich first.

We're all "up to our necks" in Wall Street in that we're all invested in the continued success of the financial markets, so being straight up hostile with it isn't really an option. On top of that, even if it were, then you're expending a lot of political capital in a fight with a part of the constituency that has a lot of resources, all of which will go to the other side of the aisle if there isn't some recognition and accommodation. Add to that a certain double-bind: Democrats are already perceived as business-hostile by default, even with lots of evidence to the contrary. Soooo.... they need to be fighters, but not too aggressive (sound familiar?).

Anyway, we have one party that takes it as a starting point for their governing philosophy that Regulation Is Bad, The Free Market Is Good, and it'll all work itself out if the government just leaves it all alone, even when it fails catastrophically, unless they're in charge or it's their friends, in which case losses need to be quietly socialized and loudly blamed on government intervention.

And we have another party that believes the financial markets are an asset to a well-functioning economy, but need careful regulation, some degree of oversight and intervention to right the ship when things are going bad. This party will socialize some losses in emergencies, but it'll also defend a progressive tax structure to socialize gains.

When this gets boiled down to "both parties are in bed with Wall Street -- they're no different", the result is that there's more aligned and consistent support for the former party, and less for the latter, and it also makes doing any kind of detailed tradeoff policy hard for the latter party.

Don't get me wrong, I'd get some satisfaction out of seeing how Icelandic handled things done here, but there's some indication it didn't make things that much better than the actions taken here.
posted by wildblueyonder at 12:46 PM on November 16, 2016 [32 favorites]

Maybe Democrats should have talked about it more (and been attacked for supporting "job killing regulation" as a result), but this is an issue we were already doing something about,

The CPFB is kind of a great example of how the Dems often fail through centralism, though. Its protections don't go far enough to create real relief that would overcome that distaste for "job killing regulation." And as you say, they don't talk much about even meager gains. So they have the blame, but none of the credit.
posted by corb at 12:47 PM on November 16, 2016 [4 favorites]

Fellow white evangelicals: your votes for Trump shook my faith: Perhaps white Christians simply gave ourselves the extravagant gift of forgetfulness before entering the voting booth. Perhaps we simply didn’t care. A map circulated on Twitter showing all but one state blue, illustrating the youth vote, but I confess I find it cold comfort. Older voters can always be relied upon to value themselves and their bruised feelings over the arc of history, because they will depart from history sooner. They won’t need their portfolios and 401(k)s when the New York Stock Exchange is under water. And they don’t seem to care about those who will, especially if those people don’t look and sound like them.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:52 PM on November 16, 2016 [12 favorites]

Today's WSJ: GOP, Business Groups Launch Campaign to Constrain CFPB.

I did a lot of work in personal finance education at our library, and the CFPB was a great source of free, unbiased information for the public. One of my first thoughts when Trump was elected was "Welp, there goes that obviously-frivolous-spending-that-serves-no-discernible-purpose!"
posted by Rykey at 12:53 PM on November 16, 2016 [4 favorites]

[predatory debt collection] is an issue we were already doing something about, and if it's one that's so important to white middle class rural voters, they just voted to make it worse.

I think many people living under crushing debt probably saw Trump's lifelong refusal to ever pay his bills (creditors, the IRS, contractors) as something to be admired. "Fuck yeah, Donald! Stick it to the man!" (Yes, I am also rolling my eyes.) In their pie-eyed fantasies, they too get to join in the fun.

Of course, in reality they will be the stiffees rather than the stiffers.
posted by Atom Eyes at 12:56 PM on November 16, 2016 [5 favorites]

Perhaps white Christians simply gave ourselves the extravagant gift of forgetfulness before entering the voting booth.

Evangelicals would vote for a brick with "I will make abortion illegal" written on it in sharpie.
posted by PenDevil at 12:58 PM on November 16, 2016 [34 favorites]

to be fair, said inanimate brick would be a better president than trump
posted by entropicamericana at 1:02 PM on November 16, 2016 [12 favorites]

I know Ezra Klein gets a lot of side-eye here, but I think this podcast interview with Ron Brownstein is measured and makes sense about "what happened." It does a good describing the effects of racist fear, economic loss, and where the polls might have failed.
posted by emjaybee at 1:03 PM on November 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

METAFILTER: I'm lost in this metaphor but I hope you get what I'm saying
posted by philip-random at 1:05 PM on November 16, 2016 [4 favorites]

Brick/Carbon Rod 2020!

But seriously, almost every crazy-eyed Trumper I encountered in the wild was frothing at the mouth about abortion. Sadly, these were usually women of late childbearing years. Unless we can get the religious right to get over its obsession with controlling women, it's going to be a tide of red every election for whoever promises to curtail reproductive rights.
posted by Kitty Stardust at 1:06 PM on November 16, 2016 [4 favorites]

Ezra Klein freaked the f out really early on Trump so we're cool.
posted by zutalors! at 1:06 PM on November 16, 2016

Evangelicals would vote for a brick with "I will make abortion illegal" written on it in sharpie.

I can see the blurry outline of the Ben Folds Five joke in my mind but I have no idea how to pull it off.
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:08 PM on November 16, 2016 [10 favorites]

The CPFB is kind of a great example of how the Dems often fail through centralism, though. Its protections don't go far enough to create real relief that would overcome that distaste for "job killing regulation.

At some point you have to stop complaining to Democrats about government not functioning properly because Republicans refuse to fund anything.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 1:09 PM on November 16, 2016 [21 favorites]

I can see the blurry outline of the Ben Folds Five joke in my mind but I have no idea how to pull it off.

Don't worry. Like Ben Folds Five, it'll be gone in fifteen minutes.
posted by Etrigan at 1:10 PM on November 16, 2016 [5 favorites]

Here's a tweetstorm (but a well organized one all storify'd up for you) on The Intercept's "adversarial journalism" reporting on Clinton and leaked emails pointing out how frequently they omitted context, made false comparisons, and made insinuations based on incomplete understandings of the material. It's worth reading.

The Intercept has made a name for itself doing document-based journalism, but they're frankly pretty crap at it. Doing good reporting on documents, especially those stolen for you by a foreign power with the intent of interfering with an election, is hard, because you have to put them in a context based on the motivations and personalities of the people who wrote them at the time they were written. And it's way too easy to create false balance between the least transparent Presidential candidate in modern history and the one who was just subject to Watergate 2.0. The Intercept rarely did that during the campaign, instead largely resorting to lazy stories of the form "Clinton person said X and that's totally awful."
posted by zachlipton at 1:11 PM on November 16, 2016 [19 favorites]

Ok, dumb question as someone who burned out during Bush and wants to get more active.

What's the current hotness for getting just the action alerts with minimal discussion/debate? Additional links for LGBTQ and Georgia are welcome.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 1:11 PM on November 16, 2016

I can see the blurry outline of the Ben Folds Five joke in my mind but I have no idea how to pull it off.

It's a brick and it's banning abortion slowly.
Except the coasts social justice is getting nowhere.
posted by Talez at 1:12 PM on November 16, 2016 [6 favorites]

The CPFB is kind of a great example of how the Dems often fail through centralism, though. Its protections don't go far enough to create real relief that would overcome that distaste for "job killing regulation." And as you say, they don't talk much about even meager gains. So they have the blame, but none of the credit.

I take the point, and I absolutely think it's worth taking a close look at how this dynamic works. But laying this out as a Democratic failure strikes me as wrong in at least these ways:


1) It's not clear that the Democrats had a blank check to will whatever they wanted into existence, even as much support as they had. See the fight over Richard Cordray (and let's remember this, considering the shoe is on the other foot when it comes to Senate minority). Should they have expended more political capital on the fight? Maybe. Why does accountability only rest with those who tried to negotiate rather than those who resisted? Personally, I hope that if Democrats resist the coming attempts to decimate social programs they get more credit than Republicans did for resisting consumer protection, because otherwise, why bother?

2) It's not clear that wisdom lies in aggressively protecting *only* consumer interests, though I'd agree we could be a lot more robust about that.

3) Is it really reasonable to boil down Democrats to "uninterested in the concerns of the working class" when they deliver some relief and resources? Is it only a Democratic failure if some portion of the electorate takes all-or-nothing standards of success to be wooed?
posted by wildblueyonder at 1:13 PM on November 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

But seriously, almost every crazy-eyed Trumper I encountered in the wild was frothing at the mouth about abortion. Sadly, these were usually women of late childbearing years. Unless we can get the religious right to get over its obsession with controlling women, it's going to be a tide of red every election for whoever promises to curtail reproductive rights.

Democrats could bring up policies that help pregnant women and working mothers do in fact reduce the number of abortions. Maybe third parties like the American Solidarity Party can divide the anti-abortion vote like how the Libertarians weak economic Republicans. Though the Solidarists are usually more liturgical Christians like Catholics and Eastern Orthodox, who aren't the base of the Religious Right to begin with.
posted by Apocryphon at 1:14 PM on November 16, 2016

Politico: Trump’s vast web of conflicts: A user’s guide, "An agency-by-agency look at the ethics challenges flowing from Trump's sprawling business empire"

Not that it would have done any good, but you couldn't have written this before people voted?

This is a small but kind of important one: Why Donald Trump Needs to Take a Salary

The precedent of insisting that the president accept a salary—not in his interest, but in the public interest—is as old as the first Congress, even older. The American Framers considered payment of the presidential salary an important duty under the Constitution, and the principle that moved them then matters just as much as it ever did: It confirms that the president serves the public, and not the other way around. If the Founders’ reasons were good enough to persuade George Washington, our first independently wealthy president, they should be good enough for Donald Trump.

posted by zachlipton at 1:19 PM on November 16, 2016 [21 favorites]

Democrats could bring up policies that help pregnant women and working mothers do in fact reduce the number of abortions

They have. I don't know how to argue with "no one ever listens to the boring policy stuff, but Clinton/Democrats never even suggest xyz!!!"
posted by zutalors! at 1:20 PM on November 16, 2016 [23 favorites]

Opposition to abortion (which evangelicals did not start opposing till the 1970s) is also very much about race.

Back in the 1970s, white evangelicalism was mired in the disgrace of having been epically, utterly, spectacularly wrong about the Civil Rights movement. They hadn’t just picked the wrong side in a political battle. It was far worse than that. By defending injustice, they had disgraced themselves, surrendered all claims of moral competence, and become disgraced pariahs..

...This is what abortion politics is for. This is what it was designed to do. This is its function and its purpose. It is — above all — a weapon for reasserting a claim to the moral high ground, and for putting the moral upstarts of the Civil Rights movement back in their proper place as moral subordinates who should have no say in determining right and wrong unless they first consult the rightful arbiters of such things, i.e., us.
posted by emjaybee at 1:21 PM on November 16, 2016 [32 favorites]

Would you like a preview of what's to come?

European ministers ridicule Boris Johnson after prosecco claim

“He basically said: ‘I don’t want free movement of people but I want the single market,’” he told Bloomberg. “I said: ‘No way.’ He said: ‘You’ll sell less prosecco.’ I said: ‘OK, you’ll sell less fish and chips, but I’ll sell less prosecco to one country and you’ll sell less to 27 countries.’ Putting things on this level is a bit insulting.”

Simple people oversimplifying what they think are simple problems are blindsided when it's pointed out it's not as simple as they see it.
posted by Talez at 1:22 PM on November 16, 2016 [14 favorites]

Is it really reasonable to boil down Democrats to "uninterested in the concerns of the working class" when they deliver some relief and resources? Is it only a Democratic failure if some portion of the electorate takes all-or-nothing standards of success to be wooed?

I'm not sure how much relief the Democrats can ever offer red state working people. For example, Republican governors locked their citizens out of some of the more beneficial parts of the ACA. States that fully embraced the ACA benefited much more. The President gets the blame for the bone-headed (or, more often lately, politically motivated and malicious) decisions of the states.

As woefully unaware as most people are of national issues, they're (in the aggregate) even less aware of what's going on locally. This is one of the huge problems the democrats should (in my opinion) tackle with great focus and energy immediately. We need to personally get involved with local politics, we need to top fetishizing the Presidency and we need to help our communities become more aware of what their state houses, town counsels, boards of education, etc are doing that will impact them.

Anyhow, the Red Governors and Legislatures are an enormous impediment to progressive change right now. Yes, there are huge national issues, but we've just seen that even a great president with a supportive population can't get a whole lot of shit done if the red rump of America just sits on itself and shouts "no."
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:26 PM on November 16, 2016 [12 favorites]

You know I understand the economic angst but I don't really understand why people are so willing to sign on with someone who is pushing such authoritarian policies. Is there really a belief that the second there is a Muslim ban and some percentage of undocumented workers are deported that other groups won't feel his ire?

In 8 years of Dubya I never really bought into the "I'll just go live in Canada" concept but increasingly I'm going through the thought process of figuring out what I'd need to do in order to be prepared to exit the US if something really bad did start to happen. I don't want to be the reluctant one who stayed in the Ghetto thinking stuff would never get that bad. I'm not thinking that the rule of law will be suspended or elections cancelled in the next couple of years but I could definitely see things getting a lot worse before they get better and I'd like to have the ability to get out quick if the need arises. So passports and the like will be renewed and I'll probably try to keep some liquid assets. I don't think I'll necessarily sell my house or anything but I also think I'm going to be cautious about any big purchases moving forward. I suspect lots of people will make similar assessments and plans. My "retirement" time horizon is 8 or so years away and that's seeming like it'll be an eternity.
posted by vuron at 1:28 PM on November 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

This was sent out today to many people in the School of Medicine area of things at Penn:

Dear AMP family,

In this past week following the election, our nation has been faced with the challenge of reaffirming the ideals that we are supposed to hold dear in the face of hate and intolerance. This challenge has recently come to our campus in a very real way. As many of you know, Penn students recently received racist messages from an account based out of Oklahoma. An investigation is underway and the University response is available for review here: https://news.upenn.edu/statement-university-pennsylvania

There will be a march held TODAY in solidarity with our students and to speak out against the more broad wave of discriminatory and unacceptable actions and messages that are being perpetrated and spread throughout the country. The march will start at 5pm, on Locust Walk and 36th Walk, at the Arch Building of the Penn Campus (Google Maps link here).

Please feel free to reach out to us with any activities or initiatives that you are aware of. We will be setting up a page of ongoing activities on the AMP website: http://www.allianceofminorityphysicians.org/


I'm going to walk over there in a few minutes to show solidarity.
posted by lazaruslong at 1:29 PM on November 16, 2016 [9 favorites]

Anderson Cooper trying to normalize Steve Bannon while Glenn Beck is trying to point out that "holy shit it's a white fucking nationalist people".

This fucking election. This motherfucking election. When Glenn Beck is better for the country than Anderson Fucking Cooper.
posted by Talez at 1:33 PM on November 16, 2016 [48 favorites]

Is there really a belief that the second there is a Muslim ban and some percentage of undocumented workers are deported that other groups won't feel his ire?

Absolutely. Conservative white people don't think they'll be targeted. And they probably won't be directly; they'll just suffer from a down economy, lack of healthcare, and more pollution with the rest of us. But a fair chunk of the older ones will likely die off before anything too bad happens to anyone they know personally, and their kids and grandkids will be left with the mess.

And the thing is, so long as they are "good Americans" why would the government oppress them directly? The white people who are likely to get in trouble are those who protest.
posted by emjaybee at 1:37 PM on November 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

Chauncey DeVega: Is Donald Trump's election collateral damage from the war on terror?

In particular, DeVega notes that: The “War on Terror” also coincided with an increase in authoritarianism and ethnocentrism among many (white) Americans. Social scientists and others have shown how the ascendance of Donald Trump and his ability to win over white conservative and right-leaning independent voters is directly tied to this phenomenon.

All the more reason for Dems to work hard, starting at the bottom, in local and state elections. Donald Trump did not appear on the scene full-blown as if he sprung from Zeus's head. The lead-up has been years in the making, and I think we Democrats did not pay enough attention after Obama's election, to see that these racist/nationalists were not going away quietly.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 1:37 PM on November 16, 2016 [12 favorites]

P.S. I'll enlarge "Democrats" to mean "well meaning white people" in particular.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 1:38 PM on November 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

Over on MetaTalk there's a What are YOU doing? thread for members to discuss what actions they are taking and to invite other members to join them when appropriate
posted by Wordshore at 1:39 PM on November 16, 2016 [10 favorites]

And the thing is, so long as they are "good Americans" why would the government oppress them directly? The white people who are likely to get in trouble are those who protest.

Same with the minority voters who went for him. They're good Latinos, immigrants, gays, women etc. They follow all the rules. He'll never come after them.
posted by Kitty Stardust at 1:39 PM on November 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

Something Weird is Going on at Wikileaks

There’s something odd going on at WikiLeaks, the website set up by Julian Assange in 2006 as a place for anyone to publish secret information. Speculation about the legitimacy of the site, which became a factor in the 2016 election thanks to massive dumps of key Democratic Party operators’ emails, has been rampant in online communities like Reddit and 8chan for the past 24 hours — and WikiLeaks itself has remained silent about the problem.

So it's a all speculation at this point but I'm wondering if it has something to do with Russia.
posted by Waiting for Pierce Inverarity at 1:41 PM on November 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

Washingtonian: Michelle Rhee Rumored to Be Candidate for Trump’s Education Secretary
posted by Apocryphon at 1:42 PM on November 16, 2016

DACA new updates, from the National Immigrant Law Center: Generally speaking, if you do not currently have DACA and are considering whether to apply for it for the first time, we recommend that you not do so at this time. It is unlikely that your application would be processed before the new administration takes power, and immigration authorities currently do not have the information about you that you would have to submit on your application.

If you already have DACA and are considering whether to apply to renew it, we think it’s okay to apply for renewal. Immigration authorities already have the information from your previously submitted application, so there is less risk in submitting a renewal application.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:42 PM on November 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

Today's word is: Multicausal.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 1:42 PM on November 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

I knew the dial would point at Rhee for Education Secretary eventually. Every problem in the Trump cabinet has a pop culture solution. I do expect to see Dr. Oz floated for surgeon general.
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:43 PM on November 16, 2016 [7 favorites]

Anderson Cooper trying to normalize Steve Bannon while Glenn Beck is trying to point out that "holy shit it's a white fucking nationalist people".

I didn't hear it that way. I thought he was establishing a place for Glenn Beck to be "right" on the topic, rather than Anderson leading him.
posted by zutalors! at 1:44 PM on November 16, 2016

6 a.m., ninth of November
I throw some clothes on in the dark
The smell of cold
Car seat is freezing
The world is sleeping
I am numb
On the train to my new office
Everyone looks terrified
Don and Mike went down to D.C.
They've got the tools to find us out

And we strive
Now that they have found the votes
I'm feeling more alone
Than I ever have before

Don's a dick and I'm drowning slowly
Scoffs and boasts have us headed nowhere
Don's a dick and we're drowning slowly

They call his name at 3:30
I pace around the living room
Then I walk down to buy some whiskey
And tell some friends we're all fucked

Can't you see
It's not us you're working for
Now we're feeling more alone
Than we ever have before

Don's a dick and I'm drowning slowly
Scoffs and boasts have us headed nowhere
Don's a dick and we're drowning slowly

As weeks went by
It showed that we were not fine
They told me, "Son, it's time to organize"
And I broke down, and we broke down
'Cause we were tired of fighting

Going back to 1850
For the scared white racists

But they're all fucked
And we're all fucked
And now we know it

Don's a dick and I'm drowning slowly
Scoffs and boasts have us headed nowhere
Don's a dick and we're drowning slowly
posted by lazaruslong at 1:45 PM on November 16, 2016 [9 favorites]

Every problem in the Trump cabinet has a pop culture solution.

Exactly. Politics is a reality TV show now. I fully expect the drama to continue like this, with all the actors the American public knows and loves. Think of the ratings!
posted by monospace at 1:46 PM on November 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

I didn't hear it that way. I thought he was establishing a place for Glenn Beck to be "right" on the topic, rather than Anderson leading him.

I'm sorry but how does that apply to Anderson trotting out the whole "how can he be anti-semitic/racist he works with a jew!"
posted by Talez at 1:46 PM on November 16, 2016

that's not what he said, he said that was Trump's reasoning.
posted by zutalors! at 1:47 PM on November 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

Ugh, at least Rhee is qualified for the job, which is more than you can say for most (any?) of his other picks. Is that where we are now?
posted by gatorae at 1:48 PM on November 16, 2016 [3 favorites]

That was my exact thought, gatorae, and that's where we are now.

I found myself this morning wondering - no, wait - WISHING for good ol' Dick Cheney, who I think is at least invested in not letting the government actually fail.

That's where we are now.
posted by anastasiav at 1:53 PM on November 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

Here is a fantastic organizing tool, the "We're His Problem Now" Calling Sheet based on the Emily Ellsworth tweets linked to earlier by Atom Eyes that offer advice about contacting legislators.

There are sample scripts on a variety of issues, and contact info for legislators. I don't know who put this together, but it is great.
posted by Cookiebastard at 1:53 PM on November 16, 2016 [34 favorites]

Plus, Michelle Rhee is a grifter so she'll fit right in.
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:53 PM on November 16, 2016 [3 favorites]

I didn't hear it that way. I thought he was establishing a place for Glenn Beck to be "right" on the topic, rather than Anderson leading him.

This country's Jews seriously do not need Anderson fucking Cooper pointing out arguments by which anyone is defending Steve Bannon unless he's personally giving a top-volume, full-throated 'can you believe this motherfucking misogynist anti-semitic piece of shit' attack against them.
posted by zarq at 1:54 PM on November 16, 2016 [6 favorites]

Politico: Trump’s vast web of conflicts: A user’s guide, "An agency-by-agency look at the ethics challenges flowing from Trump's sprawling business empire"

Not that it would have done any good, but you couldn't have written this before people voted?

I felt the same about an NPR Morning Edition piece on potential conflicts, dated Nov. 10, 2016.
posted by ZeusHumms at 1:55 PM on November 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

And now this:

NSA chief says Russia deliberately affected the results of the election through Wikileaks
posted by Waiting for Pierce Inverarity at 1:56 PM on November 16, 2016 [25 favorites]

I didn't hear it that way. I thought he was establishing a place for Glenn Beck to be "right" on the topic, rather than Anderson leading him.

This country's Jews seriously do not need Anderson fucking Cooper pointing out arguments by which anyone is defending Steve Bannon unless he's personally giving a top-volume, full-throated 'can you believe this motherfucking misogynist anti-semitic piece of shit' attack against them.

Um, ok agree to disagree on this one. I think Anderson Cooper has been plenty normalizing but I didn't hear it here.
posted by zutalors! at 1:56 PM on November 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

Today's word is: Multicausal.

no thanks -- I think we can do this with the words we already have, starting with complicated.
posted by philip-random at 1:57 PM on November 16, 2016

Also I guess if Anderson Cooper were full throated against Steve Bannon I'd prefer he mention "white supremacy"
posted by zutalors! at 1:58 PM on November 16, 2016

Iyad el-Baghdadi: A team of literal white supremacists is one terror attack away from emergency powers in the United States.
posted by zarq at 1:59 PM on November 16, 2016 [6 favorites]

no thanks -- I think we can do this with the words we already have, starting with complicated.

and chingado.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 2:00 PM on November 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

Also I guess if Anderson Cooper were full throated against Steve Bannon I'd prefer he mention "white supremacy"

Consider it implied.
posted by zarq at 2:00 PM on November 16, 2016

I found this interesting:

The Democrats Are Screwing Up the Resistance to Donald Trump:How Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren misread the election.

The simple truth is that Trump’s use of explicit racism—his deliberate attempt to incite Americans against different groups of nonwhites—was integral to his campaign. It was part and parcel of his “populism” and told a larger story: that either at home or abroad, foreigners and their “globalist” allies were cheating the American worker, defined as a white working-class man with a factory job. To claw back the dominion he once enjoyed—to “make America great again”—Trump promised protectionism and “law and order.” He promised to deport immigrants, register Muslims, and build new infrastructure. This wasn’t “populism”; it was white populism.
posted by zutalors! at 2:05 PM on November 16, 2016 [19 favorites]

I knew the dial would point at Rhee for Education Secretary eventually. Every problem in the Trump cabinet has a pop culture solution. I do expect to see Dr. Oz floated for surgeon general.

um I'm fine with Trump nominating John Cena and Stone Cold Steve Austin and the Rock, who go on to beat up all the racists of America with brutal and insane moves
posted by Apocryphon at 2:08 PM on November 16, 2016 [5 favorites]

Ryan Plans to Phase Out Medicare in 2017

Paul Ryan has been pushing to phase out Medicare and replace it with private insurance for several years. But now it's real with unified Republican government. He just said he will try to rush it through early next year while repealing Obamacare.

Your Medicare Phase Out Checklist

As Members of Congress hastily hash out their opinions and post their announcements, TPM will track what they’re saying, charting whether candidates favor, oppose or release a foggy statement on the privatization and dismantling of Medicare.

posted by kirkaracha at 2:09 PM on November 16, 2016 [7 favorites]

Notable: More husbands than wives on this list of new U.S. Senate spouses.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:10 PM on November 16, 2016 [3 favorites]

Mod note: A few comments removed. I'm not sure what just happened there but it looks like a miscommunication spiraling out of hand a bit. Maybe hash it out over a private channel if you guys need to, and otherwise let's just try and not get at each other too much in here even if folks' nerves are pretty raw in general right now.
posted by cortex (staff) at 2:12 PM on November 16, 2016 [7 favorites]

Good news everyone! Full Frontal with Samantha Bee has been renewed for another season. Because we're really going to need it.
posted by zachlipton at 2:13 PM on November 16, 2016 [20 favorites]

Basically, the evil slime from Ghostbusters II, originally fomented by Putin for the purpose of isolating each Western bloc nation within its own walls, has spilled over onto online fora. So we're all getting fighty for reasons we're not fully aware of.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 2:14 PM on November 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

President Obama Names Recipients of the Presidential Medal of Freedom

Is President Trump going to do this next year?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:18 PM on November 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

The Democrats Are Screwing Up the Resistance to Donald Trump:How Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren misread the election.

I don't think you can screw up harder than losing an election to Trump, but sure, if it makes you feel better, find some way to blame it all on progressives. You were going to do that anyway.
posted by indubitable at 2:19 PM on November 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

Also, I don't think it's been mentioned yet; is Samantha Bee secretly hiding in this thread?

Because she had a Hamilton joke in her show about Bannon "If Trump wants to make an all out stand, he's going to need an alt-right hand man."
posted by zachlipton at 2:19 PM on November 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

The Democrats Are Screwing Up the Resistance to Donald Trump:How Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren misread the election.

I don't think you can screw up harder than losing an election to Trump, but sure, if it makes you feel better, find some way to blame it all on progressives. You were going to do that anyway.

I didn't write the article, just posting it since it was something we were discussing earlier. It's specifically about how Warren and Sanders are tying themselves to the populism of Trump's message while not separating the racism out. It's written by a black man, unlike some of the lefty articles that had been discussed earlier.
posted by zutalors! at 2:22 PM on November 16, 2016 [6 favorites]

Also the article is about screwing up the resistance to Donald Trump - not about blaming anybody for the election.
posted by zutalors! at 2:22 PM on November 16, 2016 [4 favorites]

Responding to Rural America

What’s important here, I think, is to understand that racism is one part of a bigger set of resentments. People can argue over whether Trumpism is driven primarily by economic insecurity or by racial attitudes but it’s clearly driven by both of those things and also by a more general sense of voicelessness and lack of power and respect.

There’s definitely a component of deservingness involved, which gets to misperceptions about who works hard and who gets the lion’s share of federal assistance. That feeling is fed constantly by Republican messaging. But I think it’s wrong to focus too much on the individual components of this resentment and anti-elitism. Rather, the whole package must be considered.

One thing to remember is that these communities actually do agree with the Democrats’ critique of the Republican Party as an organization that isn’t looking out for them. This is probably the reason that Barack Obama did substantially better with them when running against a guy like Mitt Romney than Clinton did running against a guy like Donald Trump.

...

Yet, I think we can do better than denying tens of millions of people any empathy. I don’t think we should ignore that we share a broad dissatisfaction with our elites, and I don’t believe in leaving anyone behind. Most of all, as I’ve been pointing out since the election, the left in this country has to reckon with rural America’s hostility if it’s going to ever have power again in state legislatures and in Congress. So, even if we feel that they’re undeserving, we need to temper that sentiment for reasons of self-interest if nothing else.

Avoiding the Political Southification of the North

Because if the Democrats let this become a racial fight between their multicultural base and the white rural counties of the North, that’s a recipe for the political Southification of the entire country. That’s what the GOP has been doing in a gradual way for 36 years, and it’s the basis for Trump’s coalition and for his reelection in 2020.

Avoiding a fight on those terms is essential even though everyone will be demanding it and one party will be pursuing it for all its worth. Once these fights get started they get a life of their own, they snowball, and the political damage becomes entrenched. The Democrats need a plan that prevents eighty or ninety percent of white rural northerners from feeling like they’re the enemy, and continually insisting that they are the enemy is not that plan.
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:27 PM on November 16, 2016 [13 favorites]

NSA chief says Russia deliberately affected the results of the election through Wikileaks

surely this
posted by entropicamericana at 2:28 PM on November 16, 2016 [6 favorites]

President Obama Names Recipients of the Presidential Medal of Freedom

Is President Trump going to do this next year?

Yes and I think that Ivanka will deserve it.
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:33 PM on November 16, 2016 [6 favorites]

NSA chief says Russia deliberately affected the results of the election through Wikileaks

I was disappointed that the words "hacked the election process" weren't in that. So no, probably not that either.
posted by jenfullmoon at 2:37 PM on November 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

Ah, I was waiting for a DeVos to pop up in the ongoing carnival of horrors that is the Trump Cabinet selection "process".

I would've thought Commerce is more their, uh, department, but Education fits too. (There was a school voucher referendum in Michigan in 2000 that failed horribly due to an unlikely coalition of teachers unions opposing it from the left, and suburbanites afraid of voucher-fueled school integration from the right. Pretty sure the DeVos family mostly funded it though I'm not 100% and can't honestly be bothered to research.)
posted by tivalasvegas at 2:37 PM on November 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

I'm actually kind of surprised Obama isn't using the remainder of his time in office pardoning people for non-violent drug related crimes. Just power through a ton of them as a massive fuck you to Republicans.
posted by vuron at 2:38 PM on November 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

I'm actually kind of surprised Obama isn't using the remainder of his time in office pardoning people for non-violent drug related crimes. Just power through a ton of them as a massive fuck you to Republicans.

Hopefully he's too busy replacing every nuclear warhead in the arsenal with a little flag that says BANG
posted by theodolite at 2:40 PM on November 16, 2016 [33 favorites]

In any sort of just world the House of Representatives would hold hearings and inquiries into the Russian connection. Instead I expect they'll hold some more Benghazi crap.
posted by Justinian at 2:41 PM on November 16, 2016 [11 favorites]

@MariaBartiromo: Hearing @jpmorgan ceo jamie Dimon will get treasury secy job. Big meeting tomorrow

Something something drain something swamp.
posted by PenDevil at 2:42 PM on November 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

Is President Trump going to do this next year?

Nope, we won't have freedom next year.
posted by kirkaracha at 2:42 PM on November 16, 2016 [6 favorites]

A lot of nonvoters are mad at the election results. If only there were something they could have done!

Of America's 320-million-odd residents, only about three-quarters are eligible to vote (mostly because they're over the age of 18). Of the group that could vote in the presidential election, the U.S. Election Project's Michael McDonald estimates that about 58.1 percent did — meaning that 41.9 percent of eligible Americans didn't vote last week.

Using the most recent national splits from Cook Political's Dave Wasserman, that means that Donald Trump was elected president with the support of fewer than 1-in-5 Americans.
...
Some people aren't able to vote on Election Day because they're working or have some sort of emergency that prevents their doing so. Those people are excused from the following critique. For those who were eligible to vote but chose not to: Your opinion is bad. Voting is the price of admission for complaining about the results. Nothing's stopping you from complaining, of course; the First Amendment protects complaints more than anything else, really. But don't roll up to America and say “you made a bad choice” after not weighing in on that choice. It's like showing up to dinner with a group of friends an hour in and complaining about what they ordered. Tough luck, man; eat your liver.

posted by kirkaracha at 2:46 PM on November 16, 2016 [7 favorites]

I wish more people had voted just like everyone else in this thread does, but if you're spending time and energy being mad at the people who didn't vote rather than at the people who voted fascist, you're doing it wrong.

Don't boo, resist.
posted by tivalasvegas at 2:48 PM on November 16, 2016 [14 favorites]

@SimonXIX:

Now seems as good a time as any to rewatch those episodes of Battlestar Galactica when Baltar got elected President and was shit.
posted by Wordshore at 2:49 PM on November 16, 2016 [16 favorites]

@MariaBartiromo: Hearing @jpmorgan ceo jamie Dimon will get treasury secy job. Big meeting tomorrow

hahaha lol I definitely remember hearing arguments that Trump being less cozy with Wall Street than Clinton was a point in his favor

since Jamie Dimon will probably not literally bomb children to death this is one cabinet appointment I can laugh about
posted by prize bull octorok at 2:49 PM on November 16, 2016 [15 favorites]

From the increasingly essential Craig Silverman: Viral Fake Election News Outperformed Real News On Facebook In Final Months Of The US Election

In the final three months of the US presidential campaign, the top-performing fake election news stories on Facebook generated more engagement than the top stories from major news outlets such as the New York Times, Washington Post, Huffington Post, NBC News, and others, a BuzzFeed News analysis has found.

During these critical months of the campaign, 20 top-performing false election stories from hoax sites and hyperpartisan blogs generated 8,711,000 shares, reactions, and comments on Facebook.

Within the same time period, the 20 best-performing election stories from 19 major news websites generated a total of 7,367,000 shares, reactions, and comments on Facebook. (This analysis focused on the top performing link posts for both groups of publishers, and not on total site engagement on Facebook. For details on how we identified and analyzed the content, see the bottom of this post. View our data here.)

posted by zachlipton at 2:51 PM on November 16, 2016 [7 favorites]

2. An Odd Trump Theory

The presidency of Donald Trump is good news for the NFL, according to a team executive with whom B/R spoke. Why? The theory is interesting, and a little bit out there.

Here goes: "Under President [Barack] Obama, the country was intellectual and looked at facts. I think that's why our ratings fell. People read a lot about our scandals or CTE and didn't like what they saw. Under Trump, the country will care less about truth or facts. It'll be [more raw] and brutal. Football will be more of an outlet. We'll go back to liking our violent sports."

posted by Golden Eternity at 2:53 PM on November 16, 2016 [3 favorites]

since Jamie Dimon will probably not literally bomb children to death this is one cabinet appointment I can laugh about

Yeah, the financial crisis may well have killed more people than American bombs did during that time period, not to mention increased suicides and deaths due to medical errors. The numbers are the subject of considerable debate, but it's pretty clear that people die when you force countries to slash their healthcare spending.
posted by zachlipton at 2:56 PM on November 16, 2016 [13 favorites]

We can discuss what the CFPB has done and whether it could do more (within the five years its been around), but blaming Democrats for being non-specifically 'centrist' in setting it up? in running it? is profoundly confusing to me; I don't understand how it's *an* example of what you're claiming it is, let alone a great one.

I apologize - I was typing from my phone, which makes me shorter than I would ordinarily be sometimes, and in an election thread like this it behooves me to make my point really, really clear, rather than just give a few sentences. On reread, that was a bit confusing!

So when I think of the CPFB, it seems, to me, a little bit like a Frankenstein monster. It's inextricably tied - or appears to me to be so, at least - in creation and in messaging, to Elizabeth Warren and Occupy Wall Street and that "99%/1%" framing - the Occupy Democrats, and the Rolling Jubilee, if you will. The way it was messaged - or at least, the way the messaging reached me, which is always a bit tricky - was very much a class-war kind of thing: "This will take down the rich!" So it didn't appeal to me. Its focus seemed to be less on protecting honest consumers once they had paid up, and more just another vehicle for a "take down the rich" movement. To be perfectly honest, I didn't look into too many of the details once the messaging got set that way - which is on me, certainly, but is also the reason messaging matters. So: too left for me.

At the same time, they didn't really go far enough for my friends on the left. Their ties and commitments to Wall Street meant that they had to do a delicate balancing act - or so it appeared - between corporate donors and the passion of the Occupy Movement. Occupy activists felt betrayed and that this organization wasn't for them. Too right for them, too slow for them. They still loved Elizabeth Warren, but the CPFB just wasn't sexy, didn't speak their language either.

So it was ill-equipped to pick up disenchanted working-class voters among the Democrats who ultimately ended up going for Trump because they didn't feel their financial concerns were heard (not left enough), and also ill-equipped to pick up disenchanted working-class voters among the Republicans who ultimately ended up going for Trump because they didn't feel their financial concerns were heard (too hippie, not tangible).

And when I see something like that - something that appeals deeply to both sides, but somehow is embraced by none - I tend to think it's a failure of messaging and intent, because it has a lot of potential to win people over, but yet failed to do it.
posted by corb at 2:58 PM on November 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

Football will be more of an outlet. We'll go back to liking our violent sports.

That made me think of "these violent delights have violent ends."

Widely applicable, at the moment. Or so it seems to me.
posted by Ilira at 3:02 PM on November 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

New Republic The Trump Impeachment Fantasy Isn’t Realistic

We’re not likely to see an impeachment anytime soon, for the same reasons that the Republicans were unable to stop Trump from winning the nomination: Trump has consolidated the GOP base as his own personality cult, thereby cowing Republican officeholders. House Speaker Paul Ryan’s refusal to criticize Trump’s hiring of white nationalist Stephen Bannon as chief strategist is just the latest example of a long pattern of cowardice and subservience. So Trump likely won’t be impeached unless the Democrats win both houses of Congress in the 2018 midterms—a near impossibility.[...]

If the battle against Trumpism is about norm preservation, then impeachment is a distant and imperfect tool, especially if it leaves Pence as president. Nor can America count on the spineless Republicans in Congress. The best hope to beat back Trumpism, then, are rule-based institutions like the courts, military, and federal bureaucracy. Judges, soldiers, and career feds are the new NeverTrumpers—not out of ideological motivation, but a duty to uphold the law, including the Constitution and the Geneva Convention. If Trump ends up breaking the law anyway, then we can start taking impeachment seriously.

posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:08 PM on November 16, 2016 [11 favorites]

The United States Healthcare budget is huge, and we spend more money for less results, so budget specifically isn't the problem as much as profits. We throw more money per person but with less of it actually going to patient care.
posted by AlexiaSky at 3:10 PM on November 16, 2016 [7 favorites]

I don't know enough about the workings of government, and I don't who does, but I have to wonder how much knowledge and oversight the President has on agencies like the NSA, and how much less the next one will have. Maybe this sets a precedent?
posted by bongo_x at 3:14 PM on November 16, 2016

I do wonder if ACA has had a significant impact on helping economy and unemployment recover. Both by providing jobs (pharmacy, nursing, elder care, etc), and by giving people more leeway to change careers, find better jobs - and companies to find employees.
posted by Golden Eternity at 3:15 PM on November 16, 2016 [4 favorites]

Do precedents even matter that much to Bannon and Trump? It seems like a precedent set by Obama might just encourage them even more to undo it.
posted by Golden Eternity at 3:17 PM on November 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

The NSA intercepts, analyzes, and stores as much data as it can get its hands on. You tell me how much oversight you think it has? Are you familiar with the history of the FBI and Hoover's wiretaps?
posted by entropicamericana at 3:18 PM on November 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

I do wonder if ACA has had a significant impact on helping economy and unemployment recover. Both by providing jobs (pharmacy, nursing, elder care, etc), and by giving people more leeway to change careers, find better jobs - and companies to find employees.

Absolutely, and also simply by allowing people in the gig economy, cobbled-together part-time jobs or full-time no-benefits jobs to get access to health care. If the ACA is repealed, get ready for a lot more Dunkin Donuts employees to go to work sick and end up sneezing in your coffee.
posted by tivalasvegas at 3:19 PM on November 16, 2016 [3 favorites]

It's not a fantasy, but I think the possibility of Trump resigning on his accord after getting fed up with/bored of the job is more remotely likely. Especially if the pressure is put on him at all times.
posted by Apocryphon at 3:19 PM on November 16, 2016 [5 favorites]

WaPo Trump Tower: The home of a reality show, a campaign and now a transition

Unlike a private office building, the lobby of Trump Tower was legally designated as a public space as part of a deal Trump struck with the city in the late 1970s and must be accessible to members of the public from 8 a.m. to 10 p.m. That has forced the U.S. Secret Service and the New York Police Department to devise an elaborate protection plan for at least the next two months.

There’s now a no-fly zone over Trump Tower, and police have barricaded sidewalks near the tower, creating a maze for those wanting to enter. Inside there are security checkpoints where bags are scanned, and visitors are wanded. Although Trump says he wants to get rid of gun-free zones on his first day in office, weapons are banned in his tower.

Trump has a history of using this public space for his own financial gain, and he was fined in 2006 and 2015 for setting up kiosks to sell his own merchandise, according to the Associated Press. Months into Trump’s campaign for president, he continued to operate two kiosks in the lobby, where he sold campaign merchandise alongside Trump-branded gear. Those pop-up shops vanished in the spring, and in late May, New York City officials investigated if Trump was blocking members of the public from the atrium when he held press conferences and primary-night celebrations. As soon as that happened, Trump stopped hosting formal events here.

But the Trump Tower atrium is now busier than ever. When the doors open to the public at 8 a.m., there’s usually a swarm of reporters waiting to get inside. They spend the day sitting on a row of metal benches set up across from the elevators, watching who is coming and going, interviewing possible cabinet members and trying to keep tabs on the president-elect, who rarely leaves.

And there are rules of decorum: No sitting on the ground and no putting your feet on the benches or standing on them to take a photo.

I wonder why there aren't more people hanging around with the reporters. What is to stop silent protestors from just clogging up the area?

By the way I know people this morning were discussing Hilfiger's appearance and wondering why he was there at Trump Tower:

Designer Tommy Hilfiger was spotted, although he has an office in the building and was likely headed there instead of to see the president-elect.

Sorry, no Trump uniforms are being designed. At this time.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:20 PM on November 16, 2016 [5 favorites]

For the remainder of 2016..,whatever the experts say will happen...I'm guessing the opposite. So my money is on president Clinton and SCOTUS Obama by Xmas.
posted by ian1977 at 3:22 PM on November 16, 2016 [8 favorites]

You tell me how much oversight you think it has?

In the situation we are in, national security organizations going rogue might actually be a good thing. But Bannon/Trump will shut them down fast if they do, so they better have good timing and strategy.

ISIS calls for holy war find an echo in pro-Trump social media - Ishaan Tharoor
posted by Golden Eternity at 3:23 PM on November 16, 2016

So when I think of the CPFB, it seems, to me, a little bit like a Frankenstein monster. It's inextricably tied - or appears to me to be so, at least - in creation and in messaging, to Elizabeth Warren and Occupy Wall Street and that "99%/1%" framing - the Occupy Democrats, and the Rolling Jubilee, if you will. The way it was messaged - or at least, the way the messaging reached me, which is always a bit tricky - was very much a class-war kind of thing: "This will take down the rich!" So it didn't appeal to me. Its focus seemed to be less on protecting honest consumers once they had paid up, and more just another vehicle for a "take down the rich" movement. To be perfectly honest, I didn't look into too many of the details once the messaging got set that way - which is on me, certainly, but is also the reason messaging matters. So: too left for me.

That's really interesting, and I'd be curious exactly who is to blame for that messaging, because at the end of the day, the CFPB is a fancy bank regulator, not some leftist plot to destroy capitalism or the rich. They put out a bunch of financial education materials, took in hundreds of thousands of complaints from the public on problems with financial institutions, and published a bunch of arcane regulations on stuff like mortgage lending standards and foreclosures and quality standards for mortgage servicers. They're also working on debt collectors, like we discussed, payday lenders (this one has been controversial, as they've toyed with rules that would pretty much kill the industry), and prohibiting mandatory arbitration agreements that ban class actions in consumer financial agreements.

The CFPB has been far from perfect, but it is precisely the kind of detail-oriented incrementalist approach Democrats love and Republicans hate, because regulation. Senate Republicans first spent years blocking a director for the agency and have been trying to get rid of it since it started. So where did the idea that it's a class war Rolling Jubilee thing come from?

And I guess this is where I get stuck, because everybody is listening to such different messaging, that it's impossible to have a real conversation about anything. If a big chunk of the country listens to talk radio or whatever and believes that the CFPB is a OWS plot to redistribute wealth or something, how do we go forward from that? How can you tell people "nah, it's really a pretty ordinary bit of the government that does stuff like fine Wells Fargo for their fraud and tries to make banks and debt collectors and shady car loans a bit less horrible?" How can they ever believe you? And then how can you have a reasonable debate over details like whether its governance structure is ideal or whether the proposed payday lending rules go too far when banking lobbyists and a huge chunk of Congress want the entire operation dead and resent it was ever created? We can't.

So anyway, where did you get the idea that the CFPB is a class-war thing to "take down the rich?"
posted by zachlipton at 3:24 PM on November 16, 2016 [13 favorites]

surely this

One of my mistakes in the hazy days of G-dub was tracking the news items and expecting something, anything - g-ddamn there were a million of them - to upend the waterfall of terrible.

But it never did. Longtime readers of this column will see why, but for those of you just joining us on the basket to hell, please do not make that particular mistake as it will sap your energy and eat your brain.

Stay away from anything but the driest and quietest news for the next four years. And hey - let's be careful out there.
posted by petebest at 3:25 PM on November 16, 2016 [11 favorites]

Today, I had another anxiety attack, this time specifically about the US election. So it's not to say I'm taking this lightly.

But: There are tons of things pointing to chance, and Democratic politicians should work on this. Not loose direction by trying to get racists. First of all everyone knows demographics are trending Democratic.
This is delayed by the states, but the thing is, red states are turning blue, and it is happening faster than anyone imagined. It's not only low pay migrant workers, it is also college educated youth, looking for opportunities.

I know this election didn't prove that, but it'll be clear in 2020.

There is always a terrible delay between what is trending and actual popular culture. During the 70's, the inner cities were collapsing, and this is what Trump is talking about now. But the "trendsetters" (sorry, I hate this word), were dancing all though the night, and eventually the cities became the drivers of economy and energy.

Right now, a lot of creatives are moving to rural areas and starting up businesses. For all the hate for hipsters, they are creating new jobs and real economy. If you are a young person with no means to set up a business in a metro area, smoking bacon is a good deal. And globalization means that your local business can get international attention.

At my job, I'm only half-joking that the Appalachians are the new Brooklyn.

I'm sorry this is bad writing — I'm seriously ill after this election
posted by mumimor at 3:27 PM on November 16, 2016 [15 favorites]

New Yorker Donald Trump’s First, Alarming Week as President-Elect

Later that evening, Trump’s interview with “60 Minutes,” recorded on Friday, aired, which my colleague Amy Davidson covered. The most worrying aspect of his interview may have been his hint that the Justice Department, the part of the federal government that, in the hands of an unscrupulous White House, has enormous potential for abuse, was a tool of the President. “I don’t want to hurt them. I don’t want to hurt them,” Trump said, when asked if he still wanted a special prosecutor to reopen the case of Hillary Clinton’s mishandling of classified information. “They’re, they’re good people. I don’t want to hurt them. And I will give you a very, very good and definitive answer the next time we do ‘60 Minutes’ together.” There was no appeal to the rule of law. Instead, Trump talked the way an autocrat talks and suggested that the Justice Department was simply a tool to be used against opponents, unless he felt like sparing them based on his mood and if he believes his potential targets are “good people.” This is terrifying.[...]

As of Wednesday morning, Trump has given two interviews—the ones to the Journal and “60 Minutes”—and has spoken in public twice, at his victory speech, early Wednesday morning, and at his Oval Office meeting with Obama, on Thursday. His transition office has issued half a dozen press releases, and he has made several important personnel and policy decisions. He has tweeted twenty-three times. Seven days may not be enough time to fully assess any new leader, especially in the case of Trump, whose first week was marked by seeming chaos in his efforts to put together an Administration. But what we’ve learned so far about the least-experienced President-elect in history is as troubling and ominous as his critics have feared. The Greeks have a word for the emerging Trump Administration: kakistocracy. The American Heritage Dictionary defines it as a “government by the least qualified or most unprincipled citizens.” Webster’s is simpler: “government by the worst people.”

posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:31 PM on November 16, 2016 [32 favorites]

the possibility of Trump resigning on his accord after getting fed up with/bored of the job is more remotely likely.

He does not care. He will eat Big Macs and play golf every day and be perfectly fine with it.

Fun Fact: Nero also ate terrible food and played golf but in those days they called it "fiddling"
posted by petebest at 3:32 PM on November 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

This is delayed by the states, but the thing is, red states are turning blue, and it is happening faster than anyone imagined.

I'm on the Demographics Train in the long run but this election has shown me that the long run is a lot longer than we thought it would be. I disagree that its happening faster than anyone imagined. A few states like CO and VA trended blue faster than we expected but other states are trending red pretty fast.

Expecting demographics to save us has now been shown to be a truly terrible strategy. That Texas is now being lost by 9 points instead of 18 means about as much right now as the fact that California is being won by 28 instead of 10 or 20.

We need to win now, not in 30 years.
posted by Justinian at 3:33 PM on November 16, 2016 [18 favorites]

To further comment on the ACA, one issue here in Los Angeles was the stress on hospitals caused by uninsured patients. These folks tend to have emergent health problems that do not get treated until they must be taken to emergency. We had a few hospitals close and nightmare scenarios where patients were being secretively dumped on Skid Row. Horrific. ACA had helped to ease this cost to hospitals, and I would be surprised if Governor Brown allows a return to these conditions, regardless of the actions of the incoming administration.
posted by effluvia at 3:35 PM on November 16, 2016 [5 favorites]

(I, too am sick now. Appear to have come down with the flu. I blame Trump.)

I have come to recognize that I've been guilty of consuming news from less than healthy sources. Are there places that folks would recommend? I want news not sensationalism.
posted by papercake at 3:35 PM on November 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

are tweets presidential records, i wonder? that is, is it contrary to the records act to delete or modify one? anyone know how the current admin handled it?
posted by j_curiouser at 3:35 PM on November 16, 2016

So anyway, where did you get the idea that the CFPB is a class-war thing to "take down the rich?"

It's a good question! And one that's naturally difficult to answer (even aside from the embarassing bits) because it originated several years ago, and this stuff kind of gets stuck in your head a certain way at some point, and you don't really take it out again to examine it unless a reason arises to do so. I specifically didn't google before posting those thoughts, because I wanted to give an accurate impression of what my baseline understanding was, not a puffed-up new understanding from research that would give a false past baseline. I know that I don't listen to talk-radio, and I know that I'm usually pretty good about double-checking articles if they seem to be coming in at a weird angle.

My best bet - which kind of exposes the real problem with this stuff - is that it came about kind of in a social media maelstrom. I have a lot of hard leftist (anarchist, communist) friends from when I used to be a left-leaning activist, who often share "Watch Elizabeth Warren Destroy The Right" type stuff. In kind of a reverse Hillary Clinton, I've been watching them celebrating Elizabeth Warren Sticks It To The Man for years. And normally, the point at which my fact-checkers kick in is when the person denies it - when my brain becomes aware there's two separate pieces of information. But she's never, to my knowledge, needed or wanted to deny that - it's a passionate base who loves her! So I've been left with a bad sense about Elizabeth Warren that's mostly derived from her most inflammatory quotes. As I think about my thinking, I'm not sure I do have a very nuanced picture of Elizabeth Warren - only as this empty leftist suit that's used a lot for class-war propaganda.
posted by corb at 3:36 PM on November 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

The ACA created jobs AND made many grant funded or city funding programs more viable. There are plenty of programs that were designed for the uninsuref that had hodgepodge funding so people's jobs were always in flux. It shifted some of the burden.

At least in Chicago, there were plenty of programs for the poorest of the poor but few for the working class. That's changed some. But I know of some programs still paying for undocumented to be placed in nursing homes, dialysis treatment, and substance use treatment programs. The ACA's coverage of substance use and mental health is poor at best so there is lots of other funding at play.
posted by AlexiaSky at 3:37 PM on November 16, 2016

Financial Times: Australia snubs US by backing China push for Asian trade deal

Australia is throwing its weight behind China’s efforts to pursue new trade deals in the Asia-Pacific region amid a growing acknowledgement the US-led Trans-Pacific Partnership agreement is dead in the wake of Donald Trump’s election victory.

Steven Ciobo, Australia’s trade mininister, told the Financial Times that Canberra would work to conclude new agreement among 16 Asian and Pacific countries that excludes the US.

He said Australia would also support a separate proposal, the Free Trade Area of the Asia-Pacific, which Beijing hopes to advance at this week’s Asia Pacific Economic Co-operation summit in Peru.

The world is going to go on without us-- there will be climate change agreements and there will be trade agreements. Meanwhile we will just pretend to ourselves that we are stronger alone.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:39 PM on November 16, 2016 [10 favorites]

The Westchester County mom who grabbed a bittersweet picture of herself with Hillary Clinton, a day after the election, said Monday she’s been getting threats because of the viral snap.
posted by futz at 3:41 PM on November 16, 2016 [7 favorites]

I'm taking the major-level Intro to Computer Science class at the university where I work, and I'm doing well. Prior to last Tuesday, I was kind of kicking around the idea of seeing if there was anyway for a person my age to transition into a software development career. And now I'm not considering that anymore, because I have a stable job with health insurance, and I'm not fucking with that if the ACA is going away and pre-existing condition exemptions are coming back. So yeah, based on a data set of one person, I think that ending the ACA will have some economic implications.

It does occur to me that there might be related jobs at my university, so maybe I'll look into that.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 3:42 PM on November 16, 2016 [4 favorites]

So anyway, where did you get the idea that the CFPB is a class-war thing to "take down the rich?"

That's weird to me as well. The CFPB was created to do mundane oversight shit that should have been done already: a kind of FDA for consumer finance. It's hard to make a fuss about it because it's like saying "hey, we were able to make more inspections of peanut processors this year so you probably didn't get as much food poisoning as you might have done otherwise. Vote for us!"
posted by holgate at 3:42 PM on November 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

The Westchester County mom who grabbed a bittersweet picture of herself with Hillary Clinton, a day after the election, said Monday she’s been getting threats because of the viral snap.

Wow. I'm not surprised that a woman on the internet is getting threats for any reason whatsoever, of course, and this might be a weird mental leap on my part, but every time I think to myself "Should I really be calling Paul Ryan's office every day, I mean I'm not his constituent, and I'm a young Democratic woman from California, I'm sure he doesn't care what I think about Steve Bannon..." I'm going to think of the fucking entitlement some people feel to THREATEN a random woman because she TOOK A PHOTO WITH HILLARY CLINTON, and I'm going to pick up the phone. I WILL FUCKING BE HEARD.
posted by sunset in snow country at 3:45 PM on November 16, 2016 [81 favorites]

Tell that to me again when you're married to a Muslim immigrant.

I'm saying 24/7 monitoring of any broadcast news will have zero net effect on the administration and a fair chance to keep the news consumer metaphorically tied up in knots.

Matrimonial circumstances notwithstanding.

Go local, go small, seek non-sensationalist tone and there's a better chance to effect real change, or at least live life as well as can be. Linking NYT and CNN - after the great bef*ckening - will have no effect. Mainstream news is so dysfunctional they can barely follow their own ragged tails, much less provide true insight.

Extraordinary rendition? Taxpayer-funded torture, no-bid war machine contracts, ubiquitous illegal surveillance and an all-but-extinguished global economic system didn't do it.

Why not? We'll have more on this with special guest General Whoever and head of Public Relations for AT&T right after these messages.
posted by petebest at 3:48 PM on November 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

American Conservative warns about some more bad choices being considered for the inconing administration
posted by adamvasco at 3:50 PM on November 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

I have to wonder if NYT reporters ever saw the day coming when they would be reporting on Alex Jones.

NYT Alex Jones, Host and Conspiracy Theorist, Says Donald Trump Called to Thank Him

“He was just thanking me for fighting so hard for Americans, and for Americanism, and thanking my listeners and supporters and to let me know that he was working really hard around the clock,” Mr. Jones said in a telephone interview this week.

Mr. Jones said he urged Mr. Trump to hold to his pledges to “go after the corruption in the government, and at least remove a lot of the establishment.”

“I think he’s emerged as the single most powerful voice on the right,” Roger J. Stone Jr., a longtime informal adviser to Mr. Trump, said of Mr. Jones. It was Mr. Stone who connected Mr. Trump with Mr. Jones months ago.

“Elitists may laugh at his politics,” Mr. Stone said, adding, “Alex Jones is reaching millions of people, and they are the foot soldiers in the Trump revolution.”

I think I see the problem with the Democrats-- we don't have a fucking crazy person to rally the "foot soldiers."
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:50 PM on November 16, 2016 [6 favorites]

Or "gay frog water"
posted by petebest at 3:53 PM on November 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

I think I see the problem with the Democrats-- we don't have a fucking crazy person to rally the "foot soldiers."


let's draft Cher
posted by murphy slaw at 3:58 PM on November 16, 2016 [4 favorites]

let's draft Cher

We'd have to turn back time to do that.
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:59 PM on November 16, 2016 [31 favorites]

roomthreeseventeen teased this, but I haven't seen it explicitly called out as worth reading: Toni Morrison: Making America White Again

To keep alive the perception of white superiority, these white Americans tuck their heads under cone-shaped hats and American flags and deny themselves the dignity of face-to-face confrontation, training their guns on the unarmed, the innocent, the scared, on subjects who are running away, exposing their unthreatening backs to bullets. Surely, shooting a fleeing man in the back hurts the presumption of white strength? The sad plight of grown white men, crouching beneath their (better) selves, to slaughter the innocent during traffic stops, to push black women’s faces into the dirt, to handcuff black children. Only the frightened would do that. Right?

These sacrifices, made by supposedly tough white men, who are prepared to abandon their humanity out of fear of black men and women, suggest the true horror of lost status.

posted by zachlipton at 4:00 PM on November 16, 2016 [8 favorites]

Argues against the idea that Democrats have to compromise on racial justice to win over (some) white rust belt voters.

I like that article because it seems to argue it was a matter of bad tactics- not grand strategy- that caused Clinton to lose those votes. You don't have to throw minorities under the bus, you don't even have to embrace Sanders-style economic populism- you could simply invest more effort in those areas, to show voters that you care. So all of this buzz about "Democrats betraying POCs go to after the WWC" seems premature.
posted by Apocryphon at 4:06 PM on November 16, 2016 [15 favorites]

Both the NFL guy who talked to the Bleecher Report and the guy who wrote the story are fools. The NFL ratings will continue to go down just as they have been going down for one reason alone: television ratings are going down until they are near to zero.

The internet is wiping them out.
posted by bukvich at 4:10 PM on November 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

It is both hilarious and terrifying that reporting so far indicates that exactly one person has been blackballed by the Trump campaign; Chris Christie. And not because of bridgegate or corruption. Nobody has been blackballed by Trump because of racism, misogyny, cronyism, ties to foreign powers, corruption, sexual predation, or criminality.

Chris Christie is reportedly a pariah because he had the temerity to actually do his job as a US Attorney and was the guy who prosecuted Jared Kushner's father. Yes, the only person to be persona non grata is Chris Christie and its for not being enough of a corrupt Wall Street stooge.

Oh, Chris. So much bootlicking and all for naught.
posted by Justinian at 4:11 PM on November 16, 2016 [48 favorites]

Also, if these assholes actually do push through a registration system for immigrants from Muslim countries I suggest (among all the other things we should do) we all go ahead and register for that.
posted by Justinian at 4:14 PM on November 16, 2016 [9 favorites]

Alex Jones, Host and Conspiracy Theorist, Says Donald Trump Called to Thank Him


Looks like the NYT is a few days behind on their news.
posted by futz at 4:15 PM on November 16, 2016

Oh, Chris. So much bootlicking and all for naught.

America loves Game of Thrones and House of Cards so much, this year we decided to combine the two in real life
posted by Apocryphon at 4:15 PM on November 16, 2016 [14 favorites]

Chris Christie is reportedly a pariah because he had the temerity to actually do his job as a US Attorney and was the guy who prosecuted Jared Kushner's father.

Revenge culture is American human nature. I don't think it's weird that Jared hates Christie.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:16 PM on November 16, 2016

Jamie Dimon Tells Donald Trump No Thanks
posted by zakur at 4:20 PM on November 16, 2016 [9 favorites]

So, the only two people who have said yes are Preibus and Bannon.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:22 PM on November 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

I'm thinking he'll ask Jim Cramer.
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:24 PM on November 16, 2016 [8 favorites]

Oh God if only we could all tell Donald Trump, "No Thanks."

No thanks, don't really want you as my President
No thanks, I don't want you trying to MAGA.
No thanks, I don't want your gang of deplorables and hustlers in the White House.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:24 PM on November 16, 2016 [7 favorites]

God don't care. He's too busy right now helping college football teams win games.
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:26 PM on November 16, 2016 [7 favorites]

I like that article because it seems to argue it was a matter of bad tactics- not grand strategy- that caused Clinton to lose those votes. You don't have to throw minorities under the bus, you don't even have to embrace Sanders-style economic populism- you could simply invest more effort in those areas, to show voters that you care. So all of this buzz about "Democrats betraying POCs go to after the WWC" seems premature.

Really, if they had just not bothered with the Arizona rallies and cut back on Florida a bit and had a few Michigan and Wisconsin stops instead, that might have been all that was necessary. Pennsylvania seems more complicated. I think the bad polling data was really the heart of this -- it gave the campaign the erroneous idea that they were doing well enough elsewhere that they could spare money and energy on red/pink states or downballot races that they would never have considered in a tight race.
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:26 PM on November 16, 2016 [5 favorites]

I think he'll put few golden tickets in the next shipment of MAGA hats. First person with a ticket to call dibs on a cabinet position gets it.
posted by fomhar at 4:26 PM on November 16, 2016 [4 favorites]

Carl Icahn already refused a cabinet position a year ago, so guess he's not a contender for Treasury

cut back on Florida a bit

Why did Clinton lose Florida, exactly? Cuban Exiles and Green Party voters?
posted by Apocryphon at 4:27 PM on November 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

Maybe Giuiliani will be Treasury Secretary then! I mean, why not?

Maybe the game plan is that Trump can't find anyone to delegate to and he'll resign because it's too much work to do everything himself
posted by Apocryphon at 4:28 PM on November 16, 2016

Congratulations, Grandpa Joe the Plumber.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:29 PM on November 16, 2016

Carl Icahn already refused a cabinet position a year ago, so guess he's not a contender for Treasury

So would that have made him...

(•_•)
( •_•)>⌐■-■
(⌐■_■)

...Carl Icahn-not?
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:30 PM on November 16, 2016 [10 favorites]

New Republic Democrats Need to Pick a Big Fight Over Medicare

Privatizing Medicare would be a hugely unpopular move that could tear Trump’s political coalition apart. Launching a pre-emptive attack on the Ryan Plan, especially if done with maximum political theater, offers Democrats a chance to win an early victory against the Republicans. More crucially, it could mark the beginning of a long campaign of divide-and-conquer.

[...] formal Republican political power masks the fact that the winning coalition Trump has created is highly unstable and will be sorely tested as soon as Trump and the Republican Congress begin to make some political choices.

Consider the figures who are now in power around Trump: Mike Pence, who is a social conservative who believes in gay conversion therapy; Peter Thiel, who is gay and a social libertarian; Stephen Bannon, who wants to launch an alt-right revolution against the GOP elite; and Reince Priebus, a Republican functionary who is the perfect embodiment of that elite. Then there is Trump himself, who has adopted populist policies including expanding infrastructure spending and preserving entitlements, and Paul Ryan, who is an extreme advocate of fiscal conservatism and privatization.

The political task for Democrats going into the next election is to create wedge issues to splinter this coalition. In the 2016 cycle, Trump was able to hold the coalition together by talking out of both sides of his mouth (often incoherently), so different factions thought he represented their interest. Going forward, there will be chances to play the different factions against each other.

posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:30 PM on November 16, 2016 [38 favorites]

Ah, yes, that outsider not beholden to Wall St. interests, Jamie Dimon.
posted by soren_lorensen at 4:33 PM on November 16, 2016

God don't care. He's too busy right now helping college football teams win games.

GOD: Ho, ho! Go, Buckeyes! It is My will that you complete this pass -- aw, yes!

GABRIEL: God

GOD: Not now

GABRIEL: God

GOD: What

GABRIEL: While I appreciate the fact that college football is a very important part of Your plan I think You forgot about something

GOD: Impossible

GABRIEL: Starts with an "E"

GOD: Just tell me already

GABRIEL: The election

GOD: OH FUCK
posted by prize bull octorok at 4:34 PM on November 16, 2016 [53 favorites]

NBC News Officials: Trump Hasn't Sought Top Secret Clearance for Kids, Son-in-Law

Fewer than four dozen names have been submitted for brand new top secret clearances. Intelligence officials say it will take an average of four to six weeks for each to be cleared, though some may get interim clearances more quickly.

Neither the President nor Vice President — nor their wives — needs clearances. It comes with the job.

A senior intelligence official told NBC News that there has never been a requirement for the First Lady or children in residence at the White House to have any sort of security clearance. If the president chooses to share something with the First Lady or family members, it is at his discretion, since in theory, he also has the authority to make the determination that the "disclosure" does not damage national security, the official said.

When was the last time adult children lived in the White House? If Don, Jr. and Eric just come by for visits does that qualify for "children in residence"? The way things are going I think we can figure on Ivanka and Jerad moving in full time.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:43 PM on November 16, 2016

i say bring on the muslim registry, i can't wait to sign up.
Aloha Ackbar!
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 4:44 PM on November 16, 2016 [10 favorites]

I would sign up for a registry, although it seems the only one they are talking about is for people who don't already live here.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:46 PM on November 16, 2016

Has Mitt Romney considered dusting off the White Horse Prophecy recently? It's probably out of date, but I suspect he could assemble a transition team faster than the Trump campaign right now.

"Do you have a transition team?" may be my new question for people who support third-party candidates. If they don't, they're not running for president.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 4:47 PM on November 16, 2016 [15 favorites]

are we really thinking the registry is something you can sign up for, rather than something you're going to be placed into without your knowledge or consent
posted by prize bull octorok at 4:48 PM on November 16, 2016 [6 favorites]

Sounds like Hatch is definitely opposed to ending the legislative filibuster because he understands that Republicans are in the minority more often than not.

I won't say that the filibuster is completely safe but it's looking safer.

Democrats should be able to prevent most of Ryan's agenda. He can push all sorts of stupid shit through the house and campaign on how Democrats are obstructions to the agenda.

They can still do dumb stuff in reconciliation but hopefully the worst stuff can be blocked.
posted by vuron at 4:49 PM on November 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

For some reason, talk of adult Trump kids moving into the White House or Jared Kushner being given equal briefings and security clearance with the President infuriates me more than anything else I have witnessed in this election. NOBODY ELECTED THOSE FUCKERS. Just because the dad is in office doesn't mean my tax dollars should go toward the upkeep of adult children or the insanely dangerous and unprecedented prospect of an unelected official having access to the country's top secrets. *bursts into flames*
posted by mynameisluka at 4:49 PM on November 16, 2016 [15 favorites]

"Becoming a Muslim is a simple and easy process. All that a person has to do is to say a sentence called the Testimony of Faith (Shahada), which is pronounced as:

I testify “La ilaha illa Allah, Muhammad rasoolu Allah.”

These Arabic words mean, “There is no true god (deity) but God (Allah), and Muhammad is the Messenger (Prophet) of God.” Once a person says the Testimony of Faith (Shahada) with conviction and understanding its meaning, then he/she has become a Muslim. "
posted by Devonian at 4:50 PM on November 16, 2016 [8 favorites]

Has Mitt Romney considered dusting off the White Horse Prophecy recently? It's probably out of date, but I suspect he could assemble a transition team faster than the Trump campaign right now.

The hearts of everyone with one of the innumerable Binders Full of Women parody accounts on Twitter just fluttered uncontrollably.
posted by Copronymus at 4:52 PM on November 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

NBC News Officials: Trump Hasn't Sought Top Secret Clearance for Kids, Son-in-Law

This is ridiculous fucking goalposts-moving nitpicking reporting that utterly misses the point. The real story is that Trump named his kids and son-in-law as official members of his transition team while they're also supposed to be responsible for the business. That's the part that's not ok. I don't give a hoot whether they've already applied for top secret clearance, are eligible for secret clearance, haven't applied yet but might later, or that someone simply asked about getting them clearance and then didn't follow through (yet?). That's all irrelevant. The actual problem is that they're there right now making decisions about the same people that will soon be regulating their business dealings.

Security clearances don't matter, but this is where Trump gets you, poking tiny holes in unimportant details to distract from the broader issue that nothing about this is ok.
posted by zachlipton at 4:52 PM on November 16, 2016 [36 favorites]

NBC News Officials:
Ye'hh. There's yer problem.

...Carl Icahn-not?
Joey Michaels, take a lap
posted by petebest at 4:56 PM on November 16, 2016 [3 favorites]

NBC News Officials: Trump Hasn't Sought Top Secret Clearance for Kids, Son-in-Law

That magic elixir of incompetence, corruption and pure evil that makes it appear as if they are doing nothing at all.
posted by acidic at 4:57 PM on November 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

For some reason, talk of adult Trump kids moving into the White House or Jared Kushner being given equal briefings and security clearance with the President infuriates me more than anything else I have witnessed in this election. NOBODY ELECTED THOSE FUCKERS.

I'm not sympathetic to the Orange One or to his kids, but this argument is making me a little uneasy because I remember it being applied in the early 90s to a certain First Lady who had the nerve to think she could get involved in policy issues like health care.
posted by Daily Alice at 4:59 PM on November 16, 2016 [7 favorites]

Billy Carter?
posted by petebest at 5:01 PM on November 16, 2016

That magic elixir of incompetence, corruption and pure evil that makes it appear as if they are doing nothing at all.

Mixing aphorisms now with the hope that we get to use it in the not-too-far future:

Sometimes, all that is necessary for the triumph of good is that malice does nothing but stupidity.
posted by Apocryphon at 5:01 PM on November 16, 2016 [3 favorites]

Fair enough, but as far as I know, the First Lady is entitled to those briefings, and it's much more of a package deal in terms of the election than the kids.
posted by mynameisluka at 5:02 PM on November 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

It's so sad that there seems to be no good way to convey to the majority of voters exactly how stunningly incompetent the far right are. They manage to give the impression of competence due to a rich cocktail of pomposity, bigotry and tailoring, but when it comes down to it no sane person would let them run anything more complicated than a lemonade stand. And they'd probably even fuck that up.

However, I can report from the UK that incompetence doesn't seem to stop them or even slow them down.
posted by Grangousier at 5:07 PM on November 16, 2016 [3 favorites]

Why did Clinton lose Florida, exactly? Cuban Exiles and Green Party voters?

Nope, suburban/exurban whites in the I-4 corridor around Tampa and Orlando.
posted by chris24 at 5:16 PM on November 16, 2016 [3 favorites]

Sounds like Hatch is definitely opposed to ending the legislative filibuster because he understands that Republicans are in the minority more often than not...I won't say that the filibuster is completely safe but it's looking safer.

Reasons for not-despair are good. Nobody should count on this, though. Support Foster Campbell's runoff campaign. The thinner the margins in the Senate, the more Republican Senators on the margins have incentives to cooperate in keeping the worst from happening.
posted by wildblueyonder at 5:17 PM on November 16, 2016 [7 favorites]

Random calling about Bannon update. Tried both of my senators (Schumer and Hillebrand) in their local offices and in DC. Just got voicemail or busy signals. :( I wasn't surprised about Schumer since he was just made minority leader, but disappointed all the same, as I had to work up my courage. I have them programmed into my phone now, and will try again tomorrow. Have melissasaurus script at the ready.
posted by obliquity of the ecliptic at 5:19 PM on November 16, 2016 [4 favorites]

All of the reports of people phoning, especially the ones about doing despite anxiety and nervousness are inspiring.

Just felt I needed to say this.
posted by Jalliah at 5:21 PM on November 16, 2016 [29 favorites]

It's so sad that there seems to be no good way to convey to the majority of voters exactly how stunningly incompetent the far right are

One thing that really grates on me with the whole economics and middle America is hurting thing is that this in no way explains why people make such totally stupid decisions when it comes to voting. The endless spiraling feedback loop that republicans seem to be in is:

-Be angry and hurty
-Elect people to government who are obviously incompetent as agents of change
-Watch as the people you elected totally predictably do nothing and obstruct any actual changes
-Get more angry
-Make an even more stupid voting decision to drain the "swamp" that you elected last time.
-Repeat until we've elected the Kool Aid Man
posted by angrybear at 5:28 PM on November 16, 2016 [10 favorites]

The Kool Aid Man would be shocked and offended by the comparison to Trump.
posted by Archelaus at 5:31 PM on November 16, 2016 [3 favorites]

OH YEAH
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 5:36 PM on November 16, 2016

The Kool Aid Man breaks down walls; he doesn't build them.
posted by zachlipton at 5:37 PM on November 16, 2016 [15 favorites]

Clinton talking about children in poverty at the Children's Defense Fund. First time I've been able to hear her speak since Tuesday.
posted by zutalors! at 5:45 PM on November 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

@PhilipRucker Trump to require anyone joining the admin to sign a form preventing him/her from being a lobbyist for FIVE years after leaving.

In the comments section one tweeter says: I'm not sure how this is enforceable at all with the federal government doing the actual hiring

By the way, Rudolph Guiliani, for one, was a foreign lobbyist for years. If this is enforcable there may be some on the Trump team who don't think it is worth giving up lobby money for 5 years after leaving, especially someone like Rudy who is 72. Actually what other kind of work can these people do besides lobbying? Think tank? Speaker? Author? Radio Personality? I mean where does Guiliani go from here if he gets the boot from Trump (always a possibility with DJT.)
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:48 PM on November 16, 2016

It is not that hard to skirt the "technical" definition of lobbying. Plenty of lobbyists are able to do it.
posted by grobstein at 5:50 PM on November 16, 2016 [3 favorites]

AP Trump's lobbyist ban complicates administration hiring

The incoming Republican president is racing to hire some 4,000 executive-branch employees, and his ethics plan could cause some job-seekers to look elsewhere because it limits how they can earn a living when they decide to leave the administration.

"This will have a chilling effect on his hiring, no doubt," said Paul Miller, who leads the National Institute for Lobbying and Ethics. "Most people who agree to government service want to go back into the private sector. We don't want career politicians, and that's what he could end up with."[...]

He can enforce his executive-branch lobbying ban with the stroke of his pen, but measures involving Congress are trickier. Trump says he will ask Congress to institute a five-year lobbying ban for departing members and staff. That would take the approval of legislators who might be squeamish about tamping down their own future employment options.

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell didn't directly answer when asked about Trump's proposed lobbying ban for those leaving the Hill. He said he wants legislators to "address the real concerns of the American people" rather than fixate on every utterance during the presidential contest.

Trump also wants to "expand the definition of lobbyist so we close all the loopholes that former government officials use by labeling themselves consultants and advisers when we all know they are lobbyists."

Congress is not going to give this a moment's thought. I rather enjoy the idea of Trump deciding that Congress should pass some laws that would hurt the Congress members themselves-- it will be interesting to see who can hold a grudge longer.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:56 PM on November 16, 2016 [5 favorites]

...where does Guiliani go from here if he gets the boot from Trump

I guess he can always go fuck himself. He'll always have that option.
posted by Cookiebastard at 6:00 PM on November 16, 2016 [59 favorites]

Congress is not going to give this a moment's thought. I rather enjoy the idea of Trump deciding that Congress should pass some laws that would hurt the Congress members themselves-- it will be interesting to see who can hold a grudge longer.

It'd be enjoyable if there weren't people who's literal lives depend on government doing its job.
posted by Talez at 6:01 PM on November 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

Isn't the lobbyist bans one of the few genuinely good ideas from Trump, in that it could actually prevent the cronyism and corruption that leads to former regulators going into private industry with knowledge of the loopholes?
posted by Apocryphon at 6:06 PM on November 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

He's banning lobbyists so that his kids can lobby him I'm guessing.
posted by ian1977 at 6:11 PM on November 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

Depending on how broadly "lobbying" is defined, it'd also create a staff of *very* loyal employees.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 6:11 PM on November 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

"Post-truth" declared word of the year by Oxford dictionaries. Fuck 2016.
posted by gatorae at 6:18 PM on November 16, 2016 [19 favorites]

Rather than working only to fuck the next President, he could simply not hire people who have lobbied in the past five years.
posted by rhizome at 6:19 PM on November 16, 2016

Well the Ivanka and Jared decided it is best to exuberantly dive for dollars, so they won't be needing their top security clearances.
posted by Oyéah at 6:26 PM on November 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

I'm not against government employees not being able to lobby in the way that lobbing happens now or atleast how I perceive lobby happening now.

But, especially in soical services and Healthcare, lobbing/advocating is like the bread and butter of what I do. Public policy is the most important thing governing what I do and how I do it.

I don't like the government's or any employer telling anyone what they cannot do in their personal lives as employment options after they have terminated employment. If things are illegal, or restricted, like caps on money spent by a corporation for lobbing purposes, where everyone had the same playing field is okay to me. But in this job market 5 years outside of a field is a long time. Like more than the term of a President long.
posted by AlexiaSky at 6:27 PM on November 16, 2016 [5 favorites]

It's a funny world...

@pollreport
Overall opinion of Barack Obama:
Favorable 62%
Unfavorable 37%
(Gallup Poll, 11/9-13)
Details: http://www.pollingreport.com/obama_fav.htm
posted by chris24 at 6:27 PM on November 16, 2016 [8 favorites]

Tip of the day:

kakistocracy. The American Heritage Dictionary defines it as a “government by the least qualified or most unprincipled citizens.” Webster’s is simpler: “government by the worst people.”


I think this may be the first time I've heard this word. I can't even recall it from my political science study days. I was finding it difficult to remember when explaining it to someone. We figured out how to remember it. So if anyone else is having this problem....

caca = poo

kakistocracy = gov't run by shitty people.
posted by Jalliah at 6:28 PM on November 16, 2016 [6 favorites]

@yashar
Thread: Here's why Trump's attacks on New York Times are problematic beyond media/1st amendment issues. Trump always says NYT is "failing"

1. This is unprecedented. The POTUS-elect is attacking a public company that has not been charged with or convicted of criminal wrongdoing.

2. The NY Times Company is listed on New York Stock Exchange

3. Trump likes to say Carlos Slim is the owner of NYT. He is not, he is just largest individual shareholder.

4. NYT stock is owned by everyday Americans, NYT employees, mutual funds, and pension funds

5. As POTUS, Trump will have power to destabilize markets, public companies with a tweet or a few words

6. As POTUS, is he going to refer to a company or companies as "failing"?

7. Do Trump and his advisors realize he can wipe out millions/billions in shareholder value? This isn't just about defending himself.

8. What will the remedy be if Trump attacks a public company as POTUS that has NOT been convicted of wrongdoing?

9. If he says NYT, CNN (Time Warner) are failing when they're not - will shareholders have right to sue if stock tanks?

10. How is he going to respond when a non-media company doesn't do what he wants? Will he attack them in a similar way?

11. What will it take for a President Trump to realize the power of the Presidency? Dow dropping 500 points? Employees losing 401k?

12 of 12. There is a reason that Presidents (from both parties) speak very slowly and pause a lot when they're off prompter...
posted by chris24 at 6:32 PM on November 16, 2016 [61 favorites]

Oh god. I'm 8 hours behind in this thread and I just accidentally stumbled onto the Emotional Labor thread. I might as well accept that I'm going to be a ball of rage and unproductivity for the rest of the year.
posted by rabbitrabbit at 6:32 PM on November 16, 2016 [13 favorites]

All of the reports of people phoning, especially the ones about doing despite anxiety and nervousness are inspiring.

posted by Jalliah at 5:21 PM on November 16 [15 favorites −] Favorite added! [!]


Yes, it's really touching, all the women in my PN group who have never done this before and are so lacking in confidence but willing to try, and the others with more experience (even if only acquired in the last week!) reaching down to offer them a hand up, giving them examples of what to say, what to expect on the other end, encouragement and congratulations. It makes me feel like crying.
posted by HotToddy at 6:34 PM on November 16, 2016 [4 favorites]

I looked it up on wiktionary, Jalliah. It actually does come from that. It has a long history of use in Greek. Learned that in classics courses.

To everyone, I have a question: as an American abroad, can I vote in municipal/regional/state elections? I'm bound to Bay County, Florida. Figure I could at least throw my little pebble of dissent every time something comes up, if I'm eligible.
posted by constantinescharity at 6:37 PM on November 16, 2016

And regarding the NYT, I've experienced my first casualty of the Trump administration (besides my faith in humanity): My many happy years of working around the NYT paywall have come to an end. I subscribed.
posted by HotToddy at 6:39 PM on November 16, 2016 [15 favorites]

I looked it up on wiktionary, Jalliah. It actually does come from that. It has a long history of use in Greek. Learned that in classics courses.

Ha! That's great. Language. Love it.
posted by Jalliah at 6:41 PM on November 16, 2016

caca = poo

kakistocracy = gov't run by shitty people.

Not likely a coincidence; "kakka" for poop stretches back to proto-indo-european.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 6:42 PM on November 16, 2016 [9 favorites]

12 of 12. There is a reason that Presidents (from both parties) speak very slowly and pause a lot when they're off prompter...

A best case scenario here is people start getting used to saying "oh, don't worry, it was just the president who said that so it's not true. "
posted by Joey Michaels at 6:48 PM on November 16, 2016 [3 favorites]

And that's a grim scenario.
posted by Joey Michaels at 6:49 PM on November 16, 2016 [5 favorites]

I’m just repeating a point made by Ian Masters here, which should be obvious to anyone who thinks about it for two seconds: Trump says he’s going to start by deporting 2 to 3 million “criminals” out of the 11–12 million people in the country illegally. That would mean that a quarter of undocumented immigrants are supposed to be guilty of crimes so hideous that we should all want to expel them from the country. This is so blindingly, obviously false, and in reality just another racist dogwhistle, that that anyone who uncritically reports about this “plan” is guilty of abetting Trump.
posted by mubba at 6:49 PM on November 16, 2016 [25 favorites]

Argues against the idea that Democrats have to compromise on racial justice to win over (some) white rust belt voters.

I like that article because it seems to argue it was a matter of bad tactics- not grand strategy- that caused Clinton to lose those votes. You don't have to throw minorities under the bus, you don't even have to embrace Sanders-style economic populism- you could simply invest more effort in those areas, to show voters that you care. So all of this buzz about "Democrats betraying POCs go to after the WWC" seems premature.

I think this is 100% right. She lost Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania by the equivalent of Flint or Lansing. 100-120k votes, total. She didn't need a wholesale rethink of the coalition, she needed less personal baggage, more personality, or better messaging. Probably any one of the three. Joe Biden wins this election with her exact same platform and message. She maybe wins without the "deplorables" comment.

2020 will be difficult and different, but there's no need to sell out entirely to appease the WWC, it would've been enough to antagonize them slightly less.

It would've been much, much better to have never abandoned the labor movement. But we're 25 years past that now.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:53 PM on November 16, 2016 [12 favorites]

caca = poo

kakistocracy = gov't run by shitty people.

Not likely a coincidence; "kakka" for poop stretches back to proto-indo-european.

Schiessenreich?
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 7:01 PM on November 16, 2016 [16 favorites]

So, Washington state senator Doug Erickson proposed a bill that would create a new felony charge of "economic terrorism" for protestors that "threaten life or property" and anyone who funds, supports, or organizes them. Tweet here w screencap.

Obvious first amendment violation, but the proposal itself is scary (and we can't necessarily count on the courts to get it right).
posted by melissasaurus at 7:03 PM on November 16, 2016 [5 favorites]

Willkommen nach den Scheißreich.
posted by kirkaracha at 7:09 PM on November 16, 2016 [6 favorites]

So, Washington state senator Doug Erickson proposed a bill that would create a new felony charge of "economic terrorism" for protestors that "threaten life or property" and anyone who funds, supports, or organizes them. Tweet here w screencap.


Just to note 'economic terrorism' as well 'multicultural terrorism' are a thing found in white nationalist discourse. I don't think it's only found there but it's talked about a lot.

Proud to say they've personally called me an 'economic terrorist'. Well not so much told but screamed at my face.
posted by Jalliah at 7:11 PM on November 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

Yes, a very fucking bad precedent.

@bad_takes
Trump surrogates are already citing Japanese internment camps from WW II as "precedent" for Muslim registry [video]
posted by chris24 at 7:12 PM on November 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

Senate Democrats’ Surprising Strategy: Trying to Align With Trump

Welp.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:14 PM on November 16, 2016 [11 favorites]

As a Muslim, how do I tell my child the new president doesn’t like us? - Mehdi Hasan

Heartbreaking
posted by Golden Eternity at 7:17 PM on November 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

fucking schumer. jesus. obstruct, people.
posted by j_curiouser at 7:20 PM on November 16, 2016 [7 favorites]

yup, definitely should have paid for priority processing for the passport
posted by entropicamericana at 7:21 PM on November 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

Jesus Christ. Even James Ellroy thinks Japanese internment was unjust.
posted by thelonius at 7:27 PM on November 16, 2016

Just as a warning, this is a seriously nauseating piece of tape.

Pleased to see Fox person (is that Kelley?) pushing back so hard against what he's saying. Its small, but its something.
posted by anastasiav at 7:30 PM on November 16, 2016 [3 favorites]

People love to care about white people. People keep forgetting that the Democrats failed to earn enough votes from non-white voters. Team Clinton did stupid shit. For example, in Florida, they did much, much less to try to earn the same Hispanic votes that Obama had vigorously fought for. They focused their messaging on immigration...forgetting that, as Team Obama had known, Hispanics are actually a real and diverse demographic, who have all kinds of day-to-day concerns. You need to engage people on basic stuff like jobs and taxes and whatnot. You can't just say, "oh, don't worry, Abuelita here won't deport you", and then not engage people further.

Now, just why would Team Clinton have been so complacent?

The whole Trump did better than Romney with Hispanics is based on notoriously inaccurate exit polls, in a year when polling was notoriously inaccurate, and was only 2%, within the margin of error. And Latino Decisions, the largest latino pollster, has huge issues with those exit polls.

An interesting detail omitted from this rather salty webpage: Latino Decisions had been retained as Team Clinton's very own pollsters. They are in damage control mode. This is the same firm that said that Donald Trump couldn't win without at least 40% of the Hispanic vote. They are now agog that aggregated polls are so far removed from their own results. They are astonished that Donald Trump may very well have pulled in results not that far removed from previous Republican candidates.

Meanwhile, on 11/7, they had been posting stuff about how Latino voters are a wall blocking Trump's path to the White House. Okay.

these were people team clinton hired
posted by Sticherbeast at 7:32 PM on November 16, 2016 [4 favorites]

Welp.

Just to say, there are two parts of this.

One is the idea of sometimes working with Trump on infrastructure or parental leave or whatever, because they'd like to see it happen. Doing so, or going full obstruction, seems to me like one of those matters of grand strategy that's just hard to assess from the outside. Like, as with most matters of grand strategy, there are going to be plusses and minuses on both sides.

But, the second part of sometimes offering some support for Trump proposals about stuff that otherwise Dems would like, or about offering such proposals to Trump, is that it magnificently fucks with Ryan and McConnell. A lot of this stuff would be stuff that's popular, and command some sizeable minority among Republicans, but that Ryan especially will be ideologically predisposed against, so it forces Ryan to act in ways some nontrivial minority of his party doesn't like, to actually stop people from doing what they want to do. Which is not how House leadership typically works these days; it seems to be much more about controlling the agenda and then mostly letting people vote how they'd like over within that controlled environment. HERESTHETICS!

And while at a raw emotional level I'm also feeling GRAR BURN THEM DOWN NEVER SURRENDER, I have to admit that if I step back and put the professional-dork hat back on, I remember fucking with the majority and sowing dissension and discord among the majority is absolutely the job of the minority leader.

Schumer is otherwise smart and dogged and has been making appropriately positive noises about the Warren/Sanders crowd, such as supporting Ellison. I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt for now, especially for proposals that end up going nowhere but force Ryan and maybe McConnell to be dicks to their own MCs to prevent them.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:33 PM on November 16, 2016 [18 favorites]

Team Clinton did stupid shit. For example, in Florida, they did much, much less to try to earn the same Hispanic votes that Obama had vigorously fought for.

She way outperformed Obama among latinx in Florida.

"Hispanics: It is true that Hispanics under-performed out west, but here in Florida, she did considerably better than Obama in the exit polls -- polls that are reflective in the record margins she posted in the heavily Hispanic areas of Miami-Dade, Broward, Orange, and Osceola."
posted by chris24 at 7:34 PM on November 16, 2016 [3 favorites]

Washington state senator Doug Erickson proposed a bill that would create a new felony charge of "economic terrorism" for protestors that "threaten life or property

Is he aware it's already illegal to threaten life or property?
posted by corb at 7:35 PM on November 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

Yeah that's Megyn Kelly. She did push back, but the phrase I was looking to hear was "if you believe internment was anything other than a profound national embarrassment and a legacy we must all work every day to ensure is never repeated, you are not welcome on my show. Now get off."
posted by zachlipton at 7:35 PM on November 16, 2016 [10 favorites]

Yes, Fox is now the voice of reason. That's where we are now.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 7:36 PM on November 16, 2016 [6 favorites]

Is he aware it's already illegal to threaten life or property?

I imagine he's the sort of dude who sees any protest by the other side as threatening by default.
posted by Archelaus at 7:38 PM on November 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

Forgive me if we already collectively remembered this, but remember when, threads and threads ago we talked about getting ready to house muslims to protect them from going into camps?

I think it was sometime around April. Now that is nearing a reality.

What on earth?
posted by cashman at 7:38 PM on November 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

"Hispanics: It is true that Hispanics under-performed out west, but here in Florida, she did considerably better than Obama in the exit polls -- polls that are reflective in the record margins she posted in the heavily Hispanic areas of Miami-Dade, Broward, Orange, and Osceola."

Sorry, I was misremembering an article that was generally about Clinton underperforming among Hispanic voters. Good that she did well in Florida. She still underperformed generally.
posted by Sticherbeast at 7:39 PM on November 16, 2016

Yeah that's Megyn Kelly. She did push back, but the phrase I was looking to hear was "if you believe internment was anything other than a profound national embarrassment and a legacy we must all work every day to ensure is never repeated, you are not welcome on my show. Now get off."

I am current mentally preparing for an argument with my racist brother in law that goes something like:

Me: something, something, Constitution. Congress shall make no law....
Him: Constitution also guarantees my right to bear arms, but you liberals seem happy enough to take that right away. How is registering as Muslim any different than registering as a firearm owner?
Me: ...... as my last 'even' falls to the floor and shatters.
posted by anastasiav at 7:42 PM on November 16, 2016 [3 favorites]

Meanwhile Huffpo reports that PM Shinobu Abe is litterally on his way to the US to meet Trump and they haven't decided on a meeting place yet.
posted by AlexiaSky at 7:43 PM on November 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

So, to those who feel that Trump could be removed for doing unconstitutional things as president, I still want to try to point out (without my post getting deleted again -- why is that, by the way?) that a terror attack on inauguration day could provide convenient grounds for instituting martial law.

My point is, clinging to the idea that conventional means of political opposition can prevent the worst from happening are just simply worse than useless.
posted by perspicio at 7:44 PM on November 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

The whole "sympathy for the rust belt" still needs work, because the flip side is still being written as Please don't ask Black people to empathize with Trump supporters.
posted by TwoStride at 7:44 PM on November 16, 2016 [3 favorites]

Clinton Went Too Negative, Says Democratic Latino Voter Group

However, Mr. Parcher said CCC Action's internal numbers indicate that its positive, issue-based approach to engaging younger Latino voters worked well. He noted that the tactic "is validated based upon the data from our program" in Colorado, where the group helped Secretary Clinton defeat Mr. Trump, and in Nevada, where she also won, and where CCC Action backed Democrat Catherine Cortez Masto, who won her closely watched Senate race.
"This is a model our movement on our side has to replicate with other demographics," said Mr. Parcher. "This is a model that we should have had operating in Detroit," or Philadelphia, he continued. Mr. Trump won by very slim margins in Michigan and Pennsylvania.
"One of the lessons is, what if Hillary had spent a little less on TV and more on field operations in a couple places?"

The last sentence obviously echoes what Obama had been saying recently.
posted by Sticherbeast at 7:45 PM on November 16, 2016 [3 favorites]

the flip side is still being written as Please don't ask Black people to empathize with Trump supporters.

well, that's how it sounds.
posted by zutalors! at 7:45 PM on November 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

Meanwhile Huffpo reports that PM Shinobu Abe is litterally on his way to the US to meet Trump and they haven't decided on a meeting place yet.

Barcade
posted by Sticherbeast at 7:46 PM on November 16, 2016 [10 favorites]

Just to be clear on how messed up this operation is: [real]

Australian media reported that Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull was the second leader Trump spoke to, after the Australian ambassador to the United States got Trump’s personal phone number from Australian golfer and Trump friend Greg Norman.

posted by zachlipton at 7:47 PM on November 16, 2016 [18 favorites]

Meanwhile Huffpo reports that PM Shinobu Abe is litterally on his way to the US to meet Trump and they haven't decided on a meeting place yet.


Just caught this on Maddow. Also the Australian pm finally got through to Trump by contacting one of Trump's golfing buddies who set up the call through his private cellphone number.
posted by Jalliah at 7:49 PM on November 16, 2016 [3 favorites]

Meanwhile here's an intelligent, well-spoken person talking this evening with grace and compassion on behalf of one of her great causes, improving life for impoverished or abused children.

People who aren't living in the darkest timeline get to have her for President.

(And her story about time traveling to see and comfort her mother when she was a suffering child is exactly a fantasy I retain about visiting my father as a motherless boy.)
posted by NorthernLite at 7:50 PM on November 16, 2016 [16 favorites]

Uh, you did mean -Shinzo- Abe there, right?
posted by Archelaus at 7:51 PM on November 16, 2016

TL;DR: He kept saying "you tell me" until he stopped answering the question.

@RealAdamRose:
trump on how the muslim registry would be different from the jewish registry in Nazi Germany (@nytimes) [screenshot of article]
posted by chris24 at 7:52 PM on November 16, 2016

Shit, just put Rudy at State, that might be the safest place for him since Trump is apparently going to run US foreign policy through his personal blackberry without consulting the US diplomatic apparatus at all.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:52 PM on November 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

RE: Shinzo Abe
YES and OMG autocorrect
posted by AlexiaSky at 7:53 PM on November 16, 2016

trump on how the muslim registry would be different from the jewish registry in Nazi Germany (@nytimes) [screenshot of article]

This was, just for clarification, in November 2015. That doesn't make it any more acceptable or less terrifying, but it's been going around Twitter today like it's brand new and it's almost a year old. His current thinking, like his current thinking on literally anything, is a mystery.
posted by zachlipton at 7:55 PM on November 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

Japan's Abe told not to take Trump's campaign rhetoric literally

Katsuyuki Kawai, an adviser to Abe sent to set up the Trump meeting, said he had spoken to several Trump advisers since arriving in Washington on Monday.

"I have been meeting with so many top aides to the president-elect and also I have been meeting with the very distinguished senators and congressmen and they unanimously told me that we don’t have to take each word that Mr. Trump said publicly literally," he told Reuters.

Oh, FFS. WORDS. HAVE. MEANING.
posted by zakur at 7:55 PM on November 16, 2016 [35 favorites]

Seriously I speak Japanese and how embarassing.
posted by AlexiaSky at 7:56 PM on November 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

A man who was literally on the payroll of Putin propagandist Russia Today earlier this year.

@DefenseBaron:
JUST IN; Retired Lt. Gen. Michael Flynn to be national security advisor, reports @kwelkernbc on @MSNBC just now. @GenFlynn
posted by chris24 at 7:58 PM on November 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

His current thinking, like his current thinking on literally anything, is a mystery.

Maybe it's something like this.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:59 PM on November 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

"I have been meeting with so many top aides to the president-elect and also I have been meeting with the very distinguished senators and congressmen and they unanimously told me that we don’t have to take each word that Mr. Trump said publicly literally," he told Reuters.

So the translation is: Trump can't be trusted. We don't even trust what he says. And yeah sorry bout all this. Maybe ignore it and talk to us.

Glad to see international relations are off to a such swimming start.
posted by Jalliah at 8:02 PM on November 16, 2016 [6 favorites]

Here's an article on Flynn. Way too flatering, imo. I swear this guy is an absolute moron.

How Mike Flynn Became America’s Angriest General

He seems 100% serious about locking up Hillary. I guess Obama should pardon her.
posted by Golden Eternity at 8:02 PM on November 16, 2016

@OlympiaJoe: Text of Trump ally Sen. Ericksen's news release proposing felony charges for protesters & "accomplices."

This is scary. They could probably classify any protest they want as "economic terrorism." Fascism 101.
posted by Golden Eternity at 8:04 PM on November 16, 2016 [7 favorites]

@Nate_Cohn:
131.6 million votes now counted, per US Election Atlas, making '16 the highest turnout ever in raw votes. Millions left to count in Calif.
posted by chris24 at 8:05 PM on November 16, 2016 [12 favorites]

My subtitle for this moment in the process is "Desperately Seeking Cheney". You're supposed to find your Cheney before you become President, Donald, not hold auditions afterwards.

Pence would love to be Cheney, but he's a bit of a half-wit too, unfortunately.
posted by Well I Was In The Neighbourhood at 8:07 PM on November 16, 2016 [9 favorites]

People went to the polls in 2016 unsure why exactly the government was broken. If the Democrats obstructed, in 2018, they'd go to the polls knowing exactly who to blame.

Gee, I wonder who could've told them at some point over the last 8 years?
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:10 PM on November 16, 2016 [5 favorites]

This is probably worth an fpp of its own, if there hasn't been one.

SHIRTLESS TRUMP SAVES DROWNING KITTEN - FACEBOOK’S FAKE-NEWS PROBLEM AND THE RISE OF THE POSTMODERN RIGHT - BRIAN PHILLIPS

Russia seems to have pioneered the use of "post-modern" propaganda - Vladimir Surkov and Alexander Dugin in particular. Timothy Snyder talks about it. Glenn Beck implied there was some sort of connection between Dugin and Bannon, but I couldn't find any other source on that and it sounded like he was making it up. I think the impact of this, not just the fake news but the constant lying and tearing down of any norms and common ground for a legitimate political dialogue, is probably underrated.
posted by Golden Eternity at 8:13 PM on November 16, 2016 [7 favorites]

My subtitle for this moment in the process is "Desperately Seeking Cheney".

I get the sense that Bannon is a major ideological force behind Trump now. But it could be that Trump himself forms a large part of it. It's frightening how close that letter to the NY Times he wrote on foreign policy in the 80's is to what he's saying about NATO and Japan now. Dubya had Rumsfeld, Pearle, Wolfowitz and others who shared a common footing, and I bet a large part of the national security establishment was probably fairly partial to neoconservatism at the time.

Flynn may have a better thought-out worldview than I thought, but his hatred of Obama and Clinton seems really unfair. Yes, they used the Bin Laden operation politically and failed to anticipate ISIS. They also spent $2B on the Iraqi military - who should have been able to face the threat far better than they did. Flynn's view of things seems too simple, and he's another guy around Trump who seems possibly extremely Islamaphobic. Maybe they think some sort of a war on Islam will be politically advantageous for them, or they actually believe such a thing is necessary, but I fear it could backfire massively and allow Russia to take even more advantage of the situation.
posted by Golden Eternity at 8:27 PM on November 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

Jay Smooth: I made an "Alt-Right Denormalizer" Chrome extension, that automatically replaces "alt-right" with "Rebranded White Nationalism."

(Saw a couple of versions of this out there but I wanted one with a more distinctive phrase)
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:29 PM on November 16, 2016 [10 favorites]

An analysis of Donald Trump’s election win and the prospects for his presidency

Fuck fuck fuck.
Fuck. Fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck. Fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck. Fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck. Fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck.

posted by Golden Eternity at 8:42 PM on November 16, 2016 [6 favorites]

Flynn is on Erdogan's payroll, as well. He has called for the deportation of Fethullah Gülen back to Turkey, where he would no doubt be prosecuted and possibly executed. Flynn is not to be trusted.
posted by Apocryphon at 9:02 PM on November 16, 2016 [14 favorites]

I worry that in practice obstruction would just bite the Democrats in the ass next election.

Are you fuuuuuuuuuuuucking kidding me.

The man is a malevolent narcissist, unconstrained by ethics or morals.

There's not going to be a "next election" in any meaningful sense.
posted by perspicio at 9:04 PM on November 16, 2016 [8 favorites]

Seriously I speak Japanese and how embarassing.
posted by AlexiaSky at 7:56 PM on November 16 [+] [!]

Please share the subtext that was (willfully?) left out of the translation, if there was any of that (?)!
posted by porpoise at 9:06 PM on November 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

Oh shit.

Putin signs decree withdrawing Russia from International Criminal Court. [real]

Like, what is the united states going to do about it? [fake]
posted by porpoise at 9:09 PM on November 16, 2016 [4 favorites]

Mike Flynn's from my hometown. As a Navy Town at the height of the Cold War, it was really goddamn diverse growing up there. My sister's best friend in highschool had a Pinoy Cotillion. It was fun and fantastic. We're mostly Swamp Yankee WASPs from Kwinzee, tho Dad's a Piney from Jersey, with a lot of well documented German ancestry. (Mostly about being kicked out of places in Texas for being Abolitionist and running a newspaper.)

As a Middletown High Islander with deep roots here, our Town Mascot being a windmill of all things, For Reasons, Mike Flynn...

We're coming rougher every time.

I am the son of Immigrants and Refugees. I will not forget.
posted by Slap*Happy at 9:15 PM on November 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

I know we're all armchair campaign managers at this point, but it can't be said enough, Trump, was a phenomenon who bulldozed his way through every competitor and obstacle. He said terrible things, his awful business record was brought to light, he lied big league, didn't release taxes or health records, he encouraged the assassination of his opponent, etc, etc, etc. Any of these would have ended anyone else's candidacy. he was never treated as a normal candidate. Hillary was. Everyone who ran against him was. Any other Dem or Bernie would have been. Anyone who thinks Bernie or Biden could have won because they could have held WWC is assuming they could have held the rest of the coalition as well. We dont know that and we never will. Perhaps in another timeline Mefites are arguing about why Latinx stayed home and cost Bernie the election.

Sorry, but part of me wonders if Hillary had paid more attention to , whether that would have mattered. If these voters already felt left behind after 8 years of Obama, why would they vote for his party again? She had Bernie, Warren, Sherrod Brown and others vouching for her policies and these voters still said no thanks. We'll take the shouty one.
posted by Mayra in L.A. at 9:19 PM on November 16, 2016 [18 favorites]

porpoise, why would the US care? They withdrew from the ICC themselves 15 years ago.
posted by Radiophonic Oddity at 9:19 PM on November 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

Like, what is the united states going to do about it? [fake]

Personally, I think the USG will continue its policy, over a decade old, of itself being withdrawn from the ICC.
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 9:19 PM on November 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

Perry Considered for Energy Secretary

Former Texas Gov. Rick Perry was being discussed as a potential Energy Secretary in the Trump administration, according to the Wall Street Journal.

The department is the one Perry famously forgot during a Republican primary debate in 2012.

posted by kirkaracha at 9:28 PM on November 16, 2016 [28 favorites]

Rick Perry is dumber than a bag of hammers. Why are the Republican governors of Texas so stupid? There are Republican governors of other states who have brains. There are Democratic governors of Texas who have had brains. But Texas keeps electing idiots.
posted by Justinian at 9:34 PM on November 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

We're coming rougher every time.

tigres del norte - los hijos de hernandez
posted by Golden Eternity at 9:45 PM on November 16, 2016

Josh Marshall has a little tweetstorm going on infrastructure, that Trump's policy is all about bullshit PPPs, and if that's the plan, there's nothing to support. Schumer is playing a dangerous game if he thinks he can get real infrastructure spending without privatizing everything.
posted by zachlipton at 9:55 PM on November 16, 2016 [9 favorites]

Seems like an okay starting position to me. They should say they are willing to support things they believe in. And as soon as the outrageous stuff comes along, they can say they were willing to be reasonable, but this is lunacy.
posted by Golden Eternity at 9:59 PM on November 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

Why are the Republican governors of Texas so stupid? There are Republican governors of other states who have brains. There are Democratic governors of Texas who have had brains. But Texas keeps electing idiots.

The Governor of Texas is a relatively weak position for a governor. There's an argument that the Lieutenant Governor is actually a more powerful position in terms of being able to make things happen. In an environment where one party has total and overwhelming control of statewide elected offices (like the Republicans do in Texas), it makes some sense to get a photogenic/well-connected face in front even if that's someone without a lot of personal competence, while the Lieutenant Governor is busy actually doing the work.
posted by Copronymus at 10:01 PM on November 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

He seems 100% serious about locking up Hillary. I guess Obama should pardon her.


Because rule of law will certainly hold sway once Trump's in office. I mean, if there's one thing Trump respects, it's rules and laws.
posted by perspicio at 10:13 PM on November 16, 2016 [5 favorites]

Well this is fucking depressing.

The Clinton Campaign Was Undone By Its Own Neglect And A Touch Of Arrogance, Staffers Say
In key battleground states, calls for help weren’t taken seriously enough.
posted by futz at 10:17 PM on November 16, 2016 [13 favorites]

Uppity Woman Undone by Forcing Us to See Her As Qualified, news at 11.

I'm sorry. I didn't read the story linked above. But I just can't read another hot take about why Clinton was undone by her self confidence or not being likable or whatever. We've already gone around and around about this. Can we not keep trying to make the complicated cluster fuck that is America's sexism, racism, and classism come down to "Clinton fucked it all up"?
posted by the thorn bushes have roses at 11:02 PM on November 16, 2016 [40 favorites]

Donald Trump’s National Security Advisor pick, Michael Flynn, busted for mishandling classified info

Wow. This is unbelievable after that previous article on Flynn where he seemed to seriously think Clinton should be locked up for using a private email server. Fuck this guy. Fuck everything. These people are just evil.
posted by Golden Eternity at 11:04 PM on November 16, 2016 [41 favorites]

tl;dr the local staff in wi and mi asked for help from the campaign for more paid staff. this was denied.
posted by j_curiouser at 11:05 PM on November 16, 2016 [3 favorites]

Ugh, futz, I'm sorry, that was unnecessarily shitty and miscategorized even the title of the article. I am feeling so on edge from all the people throwing Hillary under the bus and still smarting even from all the stories about how uninspiring a woman that I've been inspired by most of my life is. Not a good reason to be totally snarky about your link, though.
posted by the thorn bushes have roses at 11:07 PM on November 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

With so many abstaining or choosing the blood savage, it was a failure of humanity, not a failure of a candidate or a campaign. Say what you will, the choice was clear enough for anybody to see.
posted by perspicio at 11:15 PM on November 16, 2016 [27 favorites]

Donald Trump's Presidential Seal [fake, MAD, obviously]
posted by oneswellfoop at 11:18 PM on November 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

it was a failure of humanity, not a failure of a candidate or a campaign.
By far, not the first failure of the U.S.of A., (and primarily, the white males of the population), just the most spectacular and potentially the most devastating. And still, very unclear what will cause the greatest devastation, the new President's greed, his bigotry, his incompetence or his emotional instability.
posted by oneswellfoop at 11:26 PM on November 16, 2016 [6 favorites]

Oh no you don't. If it's a failure of humanity, then the greatest devastation is caused by that failure. Can't pin it on the Don. He's just one thwarted man. We put him there. It's us. We are the problem. Still, here, now, we are the ongoing problem.

We won, though, didn't we? Yet we lost. Did our part though, we did, yessirree. Nothing left to do now except mumble about the outcome, because it's over.

Counterfactual: Ask yourself, what would the opposition do in our shoes?

And yet we sit.

We own the cities. We could stop the world.

But we sit.
posted by perspicio at 11:34 PM on November 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

seems like you should make an actionable proposition...or lead by example.
posted by j_curiouser at 11:37 PM on November 16, 2016

I hear what you're saying, j_curiouser. Believe me, I do.

I went down to the 5000 student protest two nights ago, to see if I could grow it by one. (Two, actually.) It wasn't late, but they were all gone and everyone was going about business as usual.

Developing....
posted by perspicio at 11:44 PM on November 16, 2016

JPost: Who is Walid Phares, Trump’s Mideast adviser?
posted by Joe in Australia at 12:01 AM on November 17, 2016 [2 favorites]

General consensus seems to be that the virulent, tribal, xenophobic disease is the fruit of The Big Sort. People seek stability and safety, and therefore don't mix.

Now, the vast majority of the people who are appalled by the horror show unfolding before us are recoiling, seeking stability and safety if there is any to be had -- proof positive, in case we needed it, that, whatever our cultural differences, we are the same species with the same disease.

Meanwhile, think of all the people who are on the front lines, and in the crosshairs of the machine that will be rolling out of the bunker soon. Through no fault of their own. Their vulnerability is our first line of defense. So we are using them as human shields when we choose stability and safety.

They are just as good as us. Just as deserving of dignity and respect. And we will let them be sacrificed rather than give up our own security and safety.

Maybe, if the devastation isn't complete, some of us will survive. But we will not have dealt with the problem. On the contrary, we will have entrenched it yet further.
posted by perspicio at 12:14 AM on November 17, 2016 [1 favorite]

Side thought from upthread: I want the next president to take that $400k/year salary. If he's been playing fast and loose with his taxes for as long as we saw, he counts on having officially no income so he can write off various business expenses and get refunds, or at least pay 0 taxes on the money that would normally require it.

A near-half-million in actual salary, no dodging or reducing it, would probably scramble his tax games badly. It'd change his initial tax bracket and how all the deductions work. It might even cascade: he might have payments that are based on a percentage of his taxable earned income.

(And I want the secret service to tell him no, you cannot live in your tower in NY, not even part-time. Even if they could shut down the street whenever he visits, they can't keep it shut down all the time and they can't do a thorough search of the entire building and all the ones next door before every visit, to make sure no bombs have been planted while he's away. And I hope it's a nasty conversation, where someone says bluntly, "you are not liked. In fact, you are absolutely despised by a lot of people, and a lot of those people have guns and worse. And it's our job to keep you safe, and we're going to do the best we can - and our best is going to include not letting you live in a building with dozens of uncontrolled access points in the middle of 9 million strangers. You wanted this job; you got it; it comes with a required residency. Put on your big boy pants and cope.")
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 12:28 AM on November 17, 2016 [63 favorites]

We own the cities. We could stop the world.

I feel compelled to note that, for example, when Hurricane Sandy wrought havoc in NYC, people here in Northern New England didn't worry about themselves as far as I know, just about the welfare of people down in New York and New Jersey, and the flooding in Vermont.

So, I think you might have to really seriously fuck up cities for quite a sustained time before the effect emanated beyond them and "stopped" the external world. If the idea is to indirectly affect rural voters via impairing daily activities within cities, I don't think you'd get there: most of the impact would be on other people in the same city.

(Which maybe would still be a worthwhile target, as mathematically there must be many Trump supporters in cities too, but I think the value of action in cities with respect to the outside world is that it's seen and heard, and that the population density makes it easier to organize and coordinate sustained and visible protests.)
posted by XMLicious at 12:36 AM on November 17, 2016 [1 favorite]

it was a failure of humanity

"The Democrats are so out of touch. In their speeches they talk about the ‘middle class,’ not the working class. We haven’t been middle class for decades. We live with insecurity month after month, year after year."
Autoworkers react to the election of Trump.
posted by Coda Tronca at 12:56 AM on November 17, 2016 [5 favorites]

I think he should take the salary because the Presidency isn't a damn game. The importance of the phrase "the American people are paying your salary" should be clear when he's contemplating living at the White House part time or trying to figure out what parts of the job he can duck out of. He's had an allowance from his bankers before, but has he ever in his life had a job where he's been given a salary and really been expected, by someone who wasn't his father, to earn it? Besides the argument to historical precedent, which is strong, not taking the salary is a cop-out, a way for him to diminish the responsibilities of the office. If he really cannot manage to find a worthy charitable use for it (Fahrenthold can help!), he can always give what's left after he, ahem, pays his taxes, to the US Treasury for the reduction of the national debt (yes, that's a real thing you can do, there's also a conscience fund, which isn't tax deductible).
posted by zachlipton at 1:05 AM on November 17, 2016 [16 favorites]

Well I guess I know what sort of message Speaker Aryan is getting from me tomorrow, because I have family that had to live in a fucking Japanese American internment camp.

Since his number is saved on my phone, it's prolly just a matter of time before I drunk-dial that smarmy gwailo and tell him what I really think
posted by salix at 1:56 AM on November 17, 2016 [9 favorites]

Report: Japan's Abe told not to take Trump's campaign rhetoric literally

“When I use a word,” Trumpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less.”

“The question is,” said Alice, “whether you can make words mean so many different things.”

“The question is,” said Trumpty Dumpty, “which is to be master—that's all.”
posted by salix at 2:07 AM on November 17, 2016 [15 favorites]

You make some very salient points, XMLicious.

I think you might have to really seriously fuck up cities for quite a sustained time before the effect emanated beyond them and "stopped" the external world. If the idea is to indirectly affect rural voters via impairing daily activities within cities, I don't think you'd get there: most of the impact would be on other people in the same city.

I think the value of action in cities with respect to the outside world is that it's seen and heard, and that the population density makes it easier to organize and coordinate sustained and visible protests.

I agree completely. The point wouldn't be to stress rural voters. The point would be to make a tangible promise to the nation that business will not continue as usual if Trump is elected. So the action would have to precede December 19. And if the electoral college doesn't do the right thing, it will have to continue.

And my guess is that markets don't like uncertainty, especially over the holidays.

I'd be thrilled to take part in a massive, general, open-ended strike that spans multiple major cities.
posted by perspicio at 2:42 AM on November 17, 2016 [5 favorites]

If our congressional reps have made a statement denouncing Bannon, should we start getting on them about Flynn?
posted by pxe2000 at 3:32 AM on November 17, 2016 [3 favorites]

Harsher Security Tactics? Obama Left Door Ajar, and Donald Trump Is Knocking

I think this will be seen as Obama's great failure.
posted by Joe in Australia at 3:48 AM on November 17, 2016 [5 favorites]

Another international take on various things!

amnesia and magnets, I respect what you're saying about non-college-educated folk. I've long believed in autodidactism and I've met both not-very-bright university students and downright brilliant people with only a high school diploma.

However, a few hundred comments of this thread only remain coherent if you actually accept these class/education distinctions as meaningful. Here in Australia, nobody really cares. Got a uni degree? Good fucking luck to you. Never graduated high school? There's a reasonable chance you're a tradesman earning six figures. More specifically, the culture here is such that it's actually somewhat inappropriate to mentally hold these distinctions. There are of course pockets of elitism, but by and large, and through almost all of society, the checkout chick working at the supermarket and the lawyer making mid six figures get treated roughly the same in most places. There's a thing called "tall poppy syndrome," which means that no matter your education or intellect or achievement, if you make a big deal about any of that you're about to get smacked down. (For a really funny, cinematic treatment of this and a simultaneous introduction to Aussie culture, watch The Castle (1997).)

This has implications for Aussie politics. No politician even in Australia can really get away with ignoring the divergent interests of various groups, but much more than in the US, the Australian electorate is classless. This really works for us. In tandem with a fairly homogeneous national culture, this gives us a degree of political stability that is... quite enjoyable at the moment. (A Mefite many threads ago joked that Australia has had 5 Prime Ministers in 10 years - *what* political stability? I can't remember who but I don't think they're laughing anymore.) The government under our current Liberal PM has ratified the Paris climate accord and is working toward a solution to the injustice on Mauru and Manus Island. Both these issues command widespread concern among most of the electorate, and as a consequence, shit actually gets done.

I'm very aware that Metafilter leans left, and while a lot of the discourse here is very penetrating and chronologically precocious, I thought it worth noting that it's possible to have a society where instead of class warfare there is actual unity. Much like there's a "certain idea of France," there's a certain idea of Australia and it's accurate enough to be potent. And it works and is accepted and undermines the type of class distinctions being made here on the blue.

My point in all this being: while it's entirely valid to divide up the electorate to target voters, if you carry those distinctions away from elections you end up with a divided society. Othering, us against them. "Both sides." Here in Aus we're kinda looking at all this and going "why the fuck is that necessary?"
posted by iffthen at 4:16 AM on November 17, 2016 [11 favorites]

I'm very aware that Metafilter leans left,

Dude

you just claimed to be from a classless society dude
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:59 AM on November 17, 2016 [9 favorites]

Just tuned into NY1, which is our local access channel here in the city. They are talking about NYPD's plans to potentially permanently close E. 56th from Madison to Fifth Avenue and Fifth Avenue from E. 56th to E. 58th. for the four years of the administration.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:05 AM on November 17, 2016 [2 favorites]

Opinion piece from the The Guardian saying that Trump or a subsequent authoritarian will be able to move away from racial and ethnic animus if desired, by Leonid Ragozin:

The 'us and them' divide worked for Putin and it will work for Trump

posted by XMLicious at 5:07 AM on November 17, 2016 [1 favorite]

If they close it down, won't Trump Tower lose business?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:08 AM on November 17, 2016

If they close it down, won't Trump Tower lose business?

Closed to car traffic. But a lot of businesses there will be affected.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:15 AM on November 17, 2016

blocked 2 brothers on facebook. i'm simply not attending thanksgiving.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 5:16 AM on November 17, 2016 [31 favorites]

How will the Secret Service secure a tower with 100's of residents, tenants, workers and customers going in and out everyday? Crazies still managed to scale the White House fence multiple times, Trump Tower will be a security nightmare.
posted by PenDevil at 5:18 AM on November 17, 2016 [5 favorites]

They are talking about NYPD's plans to potentially permanently close E. 56th from Madison to Fifth Avenue and Fifth Avenue from E. 56th to E. 58th. for the four years of the administration.

Isn't there anything that can be done to prevent this? It's entirely unreasonable.
posted by thelonius at 5:29 AM on November 17, 2016 [13 favorites]

Perhaps the Presidential Penthouse could be reached via a zeppelin docking directly at the top, consequently bypassing the teeming masses below. We need to get things like that in place anyways, so that travelers from parallel Earths know where they are when they mistakenly end up here.
posted by XMLicious at 5:29 AM on November 17, 2016 [29 favorites]

that could be a good thing in the sense of it being so unworkable that someone stands up to the jerk and says our president lives in the white house. deal with it.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 5:35 AM on November 17, 2016 [9 favorites]

They are talking about NYPD's plans to potentially permanently close E. 56th from Madison to Fifth Avenue and Fifth Avenue from E. 56th to E. 58th. for the four years of the administration.

This would be very bad. E 58th can't handle the traffic from Fifth getting to Park. They would have to close half the lanes at E 59th or keep half of Fifth open until E 57th to force half the traffic over to Sixth.
posted by Talez at 5:40 AM on November 17, 2016 [2 favorites]

Perhaps the Presidential Penthouse could be reached via a zeppelin docking directly at the top, consequently bypassing the teeming masses below. We need to get things like that in place anyways, so that travelers from parallel Earths know where they are when they mistakenly end up here.

I hope they put a helipad on top of Trump Tower because that motorcade is going to fuck people a LOT.
posted by Talez at 5:44 AM on November 17, 2016

The Tiffany flagship store has apparently cancelled their holiday windows.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:46 AM on November 17, 2016 [5 favorites]

Christ, I'm glad Trump is a Republican, because if a Democratic President pulled such a stunt that'd be so elitist and treasonous and putting innocent New Yorkers in the crosshairs of the next terrorist attack and
posted by Rykey at 5:46 AM on November 17, 2016 [33 favorites]

They are talking about NYPD's plans to potentially permanently close E. 56th from Madison to Fifth Avenue and Fifth Avenue from E. 56th to E. 58th. for the four years of the administration.

What in the ever-loving fuck? How is this even being considered? I totally understand the notion that high-ranking government officials need protection, but it seems like part of taking the job is accepting that maybe you can't go to some places because the cost of protection would be too high.
posted by tocts at 5:49 AM on November 17, 2016 [12 favorites]

> hope they put a helipad on top of Trump Tower

I misread this & thought: but there's already a hellpad at the top of Trump Tower?
posted by Westringia F. at 5:53 AM on November 17, 2016 [6 favorites]

pad, not mouth
posted by thelonius at 5:54 AM on November 17, 2016 [10 favorites]

I mean it's not like they have a special secure location designed for this for him anywhere. I mean where else could he go?
posted by chris24 at 5:54 AM on November 17, 2016 [3 favorites]

That also means rerouting a bunch of buses, so a lot of people's commutes will become horrific. I can't even imagine how that will work. Traffic is already a nightmare when the President is in town for just a day or two.
posted by Mchelly at 5:55 AM on November 17, 2016 [3 favorites]

"why the fuck is that necessary?"

It's mostly the heterogeneity. Your speech is like someone who doesn't have children trying to ask why people with children don't just, yaknow, "Make more time for the good things in life :D". (And I wonder if I would hear a different story from an Aboriginal or a POC living in your society.)

Down at the bottom of the US culture is a ravenous maw of capitalism. And you can find a person dangling above it on the bottom rung, with a solid grip, complaining about how their arms are tired, and the maw has chewed their legs horribly. But they will also be proud of how they have held on. They will derive satisfaction from seeing others less strong, less prepared than themselves — people from heterogenous groups — falling into the maw. They like that a lot!

And if you try to talk to them about getting rid of the maw, or blunting its teeth, or buying them thicker socks or something lol — they'll look at you with suspicion and say, "Fuck off commie homo, you couldn't last an hour where I am." And if you try to help other people up away from the maw, someone from a different little tribe, someone who didn't take their precautions or who uses a different grip style to hang onto their rung (the resolution of resentment is arbitrarily fine) they will get mad as fuck.

You can find even small groups of homogeneity, people helping each other out. Little pockets of tribal socialism, people who try to help people away from the maw. But if you ask them if they want to help get rid of the maw, they tell you it's God's will, they are focused on their internal tribal thing. And some of them seem to like it. They like the idea that to stray from the group means a slide to ruin. The maw is not a problem if you stick with the group, and remember that everyone has their allotment of leg-chomping to bear.
posted by fleacircus at 5:56 AM on November 17, 2016 [49 favorites]

Michelle Obama said on Colbert that her Secret Service agent let her open the car window on the way to Camp David and that was about the limit of creature comforts afforded to her.

Biden was on Jay Leno's Garage the other day and said that was the first time the Secret Service had allowed him to drive a car in seven years.

It's almost as if Trump has no idea what the job actually entails. I bet he put in a request that they don't interrupt him when he is sleeping as well.
posted by PenDevil at 5:56 AM on November 17, 2016 [25 favorites]

This would be very bad. E 58th can't handle the traffic from Fifth getting to Park. They would have to close half the lanes at E 59th or keep half of Fifth open until E 57th to force half the traffic over to Sixth.

If you live in NYC, start pestering the mayor's office and your city councillor's office to demand that NYC not spend any money or resources supporting Trump's plan to part-time in NYC.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 6:02 AM on November 17, 2016 [17 favorites]

Trump announces that he's decided to go on Carnival Cruise vacations instead of using Camp David [fake]
posted by thelonius at 6:02 AM on November 17, 2016 [1 favorite]

Politico: Donald Trump’s top advisers are discussing a plan to launch a new political organization outside the White House and the Republican Party to harness the energy that powered his populist candidacy, according to people familiar with talks.

They should get their own uniform, perhaps something in brown.
posted by PenDevil at 6:04 AM on November 17, 2016 [3 favorites]

They should get their own uniform, perhaps something in brown.

And a couple of shiny lightning bolts on their badges.
posted by Talez at 6:05 AM on November 17, 2016

Gold Shirts™
posted by XMLicious at 6:06 AM on November 17, 2016 [4 favorites]

the Australian electorate is classless. This really works for us.

What was all that about "bogans" I heard when I was there then?
posted by zutalors! at 6:15 AM on November 17, 2016 [7 favorites]

Closed to car traffic. But a lot of businesses there will be affected.

I remember seeing a list of businesses across the street and next to TT-- it was very impressive. Unfortunately I can't look it up at the moment because I'm out the door but it is hard to imagine these famous luxury brands (Bvulgari is the only one I can remember) are going to be fine with this.

Really want to recommend Josh Marshall's article on Privatized City services linked to in his twitter storm. It is a nightmarish look at how much capitalism can screw over cities. Jesus, didn't Chicago have decent lawyers looking over the contracts?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:16 AM on November 17, 2016 [2 favorites]

@TheDemocrats
Meet the man who could sit 25 feet away from the Oval Office. [video]
posted by chris24 at 6:24 AM on November 17, 2016

Seems like an okay starting position to me. They should say they are willing to support things they believe in. And as soon as the outrageous stuff comes along, they can say they were willing to be reasonable, but this is lunacy.

I am worried if they do this with Trump's populist agenda it will both be normalizing and also help to make him a two term president.
posted by corb at 6:24 AM on November 17, 2016 [4 favorites]

Setting up your own palace with no thought for the consequences?

Check.

This won't be an inauguration, this will be a coronation, and the bishop with have a gun to his back.
posted by Devonian at 6:25 AM on November 17, 2016 [3 favorites]

it's pretty breathtaking how quickly it can all fall apart isn't it?
posted by entropicamericana at 6:31 AM on November 17, 2016 [21 favorites]

Not to criticize anyone here, but can we all agree to stop calling Trump a populist? None of his policies are in the public interest. Just because he taps into the anger, racism, misogyny, and xenophobia of the public - there are better words to describe that which don't normalize it.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 6:36 AM on November 17, 2016 [15 favorites]

No, he is a populist because populists claim to represent ordinary people.

That's what populist means.
posted by winna at 6:38 AM on November 17, 2016 [6 favorites]

demagogue, for one
actual fascist, for another
posted by entropicamericana at 6:38 AM on November 17, 2016 [7 favorites]

Politico: Donald Trump’s top advisers are discussing a plan to launch a new political organization outside the White House and the Republican Party to harness the energy that powered his populist candidacy, according to people familiar with talks.

Heh, this is what a lot of people wanted Obama to do after he won, but he refused, saying it would be a "difficult tiger to control".
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:38 AM on November 17, 2016 [6 favorites]

Facebook fake-news writer: ‘I think Donald Trump is in the White House because of me’

I thought they’d fact-check it, and it’d make them look worse. I mean that’s how this always works: Someone posts something I write, then they find out it’s false, then they look like idiots. But Trump supporters — they just keep running with it! They never fact-check anything! Now he’s in the White House. Looking back, instead of hurting the campaign, I think I helped it.

I didn’t think it was possible for him to get elected president. I thought I was messing with the campaign, maybe I wasn’t messing them up as much as I wanted — but I never thought he’d actually get elected. I didn’t even think about it.

Cue Charlie Brooker's opening last Thursday of Have I Got News For You.
posted by rory at 6:40 AM on November 17, 2016 [10 favorites]

No, he is a populist because populists claim to represent ordinary people.

Then you better start calling me High Lord of Metafilter because that's what I claim to be.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 6:41 AM on November 17, 2016 [4 favorites]

Jesus, didn't Chicago have decent lawyers looking over the contracts?

The problem wasn't the competence of the lawyers, it was that city hall doesn't give a damn about anything more than three miles from the Loop.
posted by tivalasvegas at 6:42 AM on November 17, 2016 [2 favorites]

The Jewish Center on my street has put a "Refugees Welcome" sign outside.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:43 AM on November 17, 2016 [12 favorites]

No, he is a populist because populists claim to represent ordinary people.

Then you better start calling me high lord of Metafilter because that's what I claim to be.

Words mean things. Just because there are stronger words that describe him doesn't mean that populist stops meaning what it's always meant.
posted by winna at 6:43 AM on November 17, 2016 [3 favorites]

But economic anxiety...

Bloomberg: Jobless Claims in U.S. Decline to Lowest Level in Four Decades
posted by chris24 at 6:44 AM on November 17, 2016 [4 favorites]

Actually, that's more the Emmanuel MO than Daley. Daley wasn't better though, just differently bad.
posted by tivalasvegas at 6:45 AM on November 17, 2016 [2 favorites]

Words mean things.

Well yeah, but not always and not what you think. If nothing, watching the US political circus has taught me that.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:46 AM on November 17, 2016 [2 favorites]

Marc Ambinder:
There is no WHCA set-up in Trump Tower and no temporary SCIF (yet), so it's a reasonable assumption that everything he says is in the clear.


Yep, the president-elect is talking to foreign leaders over insecure lines.
posted by murphy slaw at 6:48 AM on November 17, 2016 [21 favorites]

Trump's America: "A student just sent me this." White teacher, with no classroom management skills, calls Black students "broke ass [n word] who will get shot."

I'm not sure why we're seeing this so much in public schools. Who the hell hired these teachers?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:50 AM on November 17, 2016 [2 favorites]

Because racists can go to college and become teachers too. In many districts, the bar is not high.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:52 AM on November 17, 2016 [5 favorites]

Yep, the president-elect is talking to foreign leaders over insecure lines.

Secure lines aren't going to stop him blabbing to Putin directly on the daily.
posted by PenDevil at 6:52 AM on November 17, 2016 [2 favorites]

He never stops negotiating. All of this chaos is the ladder which he hopes to climb to ever greater reaches of power, wealth, and fame.

He's starting out with internment camps for Muslims, with white supremacist advisors, with absurd cabinet nominations. Maybe that's what he wants, and hopes to get. Maybe it will send the opposition into such a tizzy that they will spend all their time and energy. Maybe his opponents will meet him in the middle (It's clear that unlike Obama, he does not negotiate with himself). Maybe he does not care one whit about any of these proposals, he just wants to find out who among his party would stand against him. Maybe he wants to learn what tactics will be used against him, so that he can preempt them next time.

He is creating chaos to give himself options and opportunities.
He is trying to blast the Overton window wide open.
posted by rustcrumb at 6:55 AM on November 17, 2016 [1 favorite]

ADL National: If one day Muslims will be forced to register, that is the day that this proud Jew will register as a Muslim.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:57 AM on November 17, 2016 [25 favorites]

I'm not sure why we're seeing this so much in public schools.

It must be economic anxiety.
posted by dis_integration at 7:04 AM on November 17, 2016 [7 favorites]

We have 100 days to stop Donald Trump from systemically corrupting our institutions: The transition period is our last best chance to save the republic

"All is not lost, but the situation is genuinely quite grave. As attention focuses on transition gossip and congressional machinations, it’s important not to let our eyes off the ball. It is entirely possible that eight years from now we’ll be looking at an entrenched kleptocracy preparing to install a chosen successor whose only real mission is to preserve the web of parasitical oligarchy that has replaced the federal government as we know it. One can, of course, always hope that the worst does not come to pass. But hope is not a plan. And while the impulse to “wait and see” what really happens is understandable, the cold hard reality is that the most crucial decisions will be the early ones.

Trump’s first 100 days could also be the last 100 days in which America’s system of republican government can be saved."
posted by chris24 at 7:06 AM on November 17, 2016 [12 favorites]

BREAKING: U.S. Director of National Intelligence Clapper says he has submitted his letter of resignation
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:07 AM on November 17, 2016 [5 favorites]

"Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires." - Ronald Wright
posted by lazaruslong at 7:08 AM on November 17, 2016 [12 favorites]

C'est la D.C.: can we all agree to stop calling Trump a populist? None of his policies are in the public interest. Just because he taps into the anger, racism, misogyny, and xenophobia of the public - there are better words to describe that which don't normalize it.

Trump is definitely a populist. That's not to say his policies are in the public interest. Far from it, "populism" is not a positive descriptor, it means exactly what you described.

Probably the best definition of "populism" comes from Albertazzi and McDonnell:

an ideology which pits a virtuous and homogeneous people against a set of elites and dangerous ‘others’ who are together depicted as depriving (or attempting to deprive) the sovereign people of their rights, values, prosperity, identity and voice

Albertazzi, D. and McDonnell, D. (2008). Introduction: The Sceptre and the Spectre. Twenty-First Century Populism, p.3.
posted by papercrane at 7:10 AM on November 17, 2016 [16 favorites]

Well I guess I know what sort of message Speaker Aryan is getting from me tomorrow, because I have family that had to live in a fucking Japanese American internment camp.

It took me a long time to figure out what this was in reference to. I couldn't find it here, figured it was just a generic expression of the hatred that all of us with ties to the camps feel toward a white supremacist administration, and moved on to Facebook where a post from Progress AAPI (formerly AAPI for Hillary) showed me what was up.

Does he know that we paid reparations? $20,000 to each person who was in the camps, under George Bush Sr.? I don't even expect anyone involved in this shitshow to know that the internment camps were wrong, I mean come on, are you kidding me. But surely a precedent like that is not one you want to rely on if you're against giving money away? Surely?

Early in this thread I said something about people feeling emboldened to tell people to shut up about the camps. This is internalized racism: even as I was typing it I was thinking "jeez, I talk about the internment camps a lot, maybe I should stop that. Maybe I'm trying to make my ethnicity relevant where it's not. Japanese Americans are privileged now. Leave it alone." You don't have to tell us to back down with the accusations of racism, is what I'm saying. We're saying it to ourselves, constantly, and what you see are only the expressions of anger that manage to break free of that internal monologue. Fuck me.

Maybe a month ago? An acquaintance of mine who also works in publishing posted on Facebook about a Goodreads review that a book she had worked on received. It's a children's picture book about Fred Korematsu, and it's not out yet; the reviewer entered and won a Goodreads giveaway for an advance copy. The first line of the review said the book was well written and executed with good backmatter. Then, once she got that out of the way (it was almost begrudging), she proceeded to explain how her problem with it was the subject matter: It was wrong and judgmental to apply the morality and social justice of today to something that happened a long time ago. Our reviewer had lived through those times, you see, and sending the Japanese Americans to camps made perfect sense immediately after Pearl Harbor, because of the risk to our country. All her friends and relatives at the time agreed, it was obvious. (Never mind all the white people who knew even then that it was wrong, who were kind and compassionate and helped their Japanese American neighbors and held on to property for them until they could come back and claim it.) And everyone else faced hardships during the war, too, like those who fought. (Never mind that we were drafted from the camps.) She ended by saying that she believed that if another Pearl Harbor were to happen, the same thing would result. My friend was rightly furious, and I'm afraid I also freaked out and left several angry comments on her post. (Sorry Mariko.) She mentioned Trump in her post, and at the time I totally got it but that voice of internalized racism whispered to me that it seemed a bit out of left field, were the two really connected? Now it's undeniable (even though that voice is telling me not to post this, we're talking about first 100 days stuff and Trump Tower).

Sigh. Time to call Paul Ryan and werk that model minority image. It makes me feel dirty, but so does listening to Paul Ryan's voicemail message.
posted by sunset in snow country at 7:10 AM on November 17, 2016 [25 favorites]

BREAKING: U.S. Director of National Intelligence Clapper says he has submitted his letter of resignation

He added: "I have 64 days left and I'd have a pretty hard time with my wife going past that."

"High-ranking official resigns upon election of new President of opposite party" isn't even "Dog bites man", it's "Dog is dog."
posted by Etrigan at 7:11 AM on November 17, 2016 [5 favorites]

Clapper, in testimony to the House Select Intelligence Committee, said submitting the resignation " felt pretty good."

oof. the grown-ups are fleeing the building.
posted by murphy slaw at 7:11 AM on November 17, 2016 [4 favorites]

"We have 100 days to stop Donald Trump from systemically corrupting our institutions: The transition period is our last best chance to save the republic"

@sarahkendzior tweets roughly the same timeline.
posted by klarck at 7:13 AM on November 17, 2016 [4 favorites]

"High-ranking official resigns upon election of new President of opposite party" isn't even "Dog bites man", it's "Dog is dog."

Clapper has served under every president since the first Bush. This isn't your typically resignation. However he is 75 so, maybe he has just decided now is a good time to retire.
posted by papercrane at 7:16 AM on November 17, 2016 [7 favorites]

MAILBOX FULL FUCK EVERYTHING FUCK YOU

I'm pooling donations with three coworkers (plus our company match) and we've been going back and forth between various charities but this settles it. Council on American-Islamic Relations it is.
posted by sunset in snow country at 7:22 AM on November 17, 2016 [2 favorites]

It took me a long time to figure out what this was in reference to.

Can you tl;dr it for the rest of us?
posted by notyou at 7:25 AM on November 17, 2016

If one day Muslims will be forced to register, that is the day that this proud Jew will register as a Muslim.

I'm thinking the same thing, along the lines of the thousands of phony Facebook checkins at the Dakota Access Pipeline intended to sabotage potential surveillance of the protestors actually there.
posted by Rykey at 7:25 AM on November 17, 2016 [1 favorite]

Clapper has served under every president since the first Bush. This isn't your typically resignation.

He's served under every president since Kennedy, but most of that was in the military. He's only been DNI under President Obama. The Bush-Obama transition also included the resignation of Director McConnell. It's a political position, and it's perfectly typical for its occupant to resign as part of the transition.
posted by Etrigan at 7:29 AM on November 17, 2016 [1 favorite]

Sorry! I was too mad to think straight... Trump Surrogate Cites Japanese Internment Camps as 'Precedent' for Proposed Muslim Registry
posted by sunset in snow country at 7:30 AM on November 17, 2016 [6 favorites]

If you want further reasons to call your elected officials in the future (and you do!), you can sign up for all kinds of alerts at congress.gov. There are a ton of RSS options, too. I currently have Member Activity email alerts for whenever my hometown's rep, Brian Higgins, cosponsors legislation. Sometimes I call the office to say, like, "I am a former constituent, I was proud to vote for Brian Higgins when he first ran and this is the kind of leadership that makes me eager to move back home. Go Bills." I don't know if it make a difference or not but it's all true (I wouldn't recommend doing that for random districts) and DC residents have really crap options for this sort of thing.
posted by everybody had matching towels at 7:31 AM on November 17, 2016 [11 favorites]

"The Democrats are so out of touch. In their speeches they talk about the ‘middle class,’ not the working class. We haven’t been middle class for decades. We live with insecurity month after month, year after year."

A small point, but this isn't accurate. Starting in the late 70s? early 80s? "working class" or "lower class" became more and more of a pejorative term that fell out of favor as an economic label, and the culture in general starting to refer to everyone employed who makes less than like $100k or something as "middle class." It has kind of surprised me to see "working class" come up again as a thing during this whole discussion. I griped about this for a long time.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:33 AM on November 17, 2016 [6 favorites]

@Sickayduh:

Monk: *writing bible* lord, the end is signaled by trumpets?

God: I said Trump Pence

Monk: Right. Trumpets.

God: Fine. They'll get it.
posted by Kabanos at 7:35 AM on November 17, 2016 [31 favorites]

With all of these talks about internment camps, I keep on thinking of my grandmother. She wasn't so much liberal as she was socialist. She taught ESL students, and when she figured out that a lot of the rural Mexicans in her class didn't speak Spanish, she made sure she learned what native languages they did speak (and eventually got a degree in linguistic anthropology specializing in Uto-Aztecan languages).

So, generally, she's was the type of person who seemed like she listened to other people, empathized with their experiences, and worked to bridge that gap. And some of her neighbors had been in Japanese internment camps. These were neighbors that she was close with - my father's best friend growing up was one of their kids. They liked each other and approved of each other.

My senior year of high school, I called her up for an oral history project and asked her about when she heard about the internment camps. And her response was that they knew about it all along, but it was for the Japanese-American's protection - that there were so many hate crimes that they would have been killed if they stayed in their own neighborhood. And look, I was seventeen, my grandmother seemed like a good person, and I couldn't wrap my head around it. She knew these people. She had to have known what they went through, what they lost. I asked her why it was involuntary in that case, and she just kept on repeating that it was for their own good.

People are so willing to believe that their government is doing the right thing, no matter what the evidence is to the contrary. Otherwise good people are so willing to have these huge blind spots. And it can be so hard to fight.
posted by dinty_moore at 7:36 AM on November 17, 2016 [34 favorites]

I am worried if they do this with Trump's populist agenda it will both be normalizing and also help to make him a two term president.

Given his unhealthy lifestyle, the stress of the job, and him being the oldest man ever elected, I have doubts he'll make it through two terms.
posted by kirkaracha at 7:38 AM on November 17, 2016 [3 favorites]

From the WSJ's Moscow reporter.

@tggrove
Putin's foreign policy adviser says after 30-min phone call w/ Trump, the Kremlin's still not entirely sure what his position is on Ukraine
posted by chris24 at 7:39 AM on November 17, 2016 [22 favorites]

whatever comrade putin tells him it is, surely
posted by entropicamericana at 7:41 AM on November 17, 2016 [4 favorites]

Given his unhealthy lifestyle, the stress of the job, and him being the oldest man ever elected, I have doubts he'll make it through two terms.

If he implements tax cuts, which seem certain (never mind paying for them) and get infrastructure and pipeline projects moving, that'll create some jobs and probably keep enough the populace happy, while depressing another part to guarantee him a second term.

It's not certain of course, but I wouldn't make any bets on him being a single term president without some major work by the Democrats.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:44 AM on November 17, 2016 [5 favorites]

Here in Aus we're kinda looking at all this and going "why the fuck is that necessary?"

because half of your country literally wants to ban Muslims and the other half doesn't
posted by mightygodking at 7:44 AM on November 17, 2016 [10 favorites]

Putin's foreign policy adviser says after 30-min phone call w/ Trump, the Kremlin's still not entirely sure what his position is on Ukraine


i think a lot of foreign leaders are going to be confused if they assume that trump has "positions" as they understand them
posted by murphy slaw at 7:46 AM on November 17, 2016 [4 favorites]

How will the Secret Service secure a tower with 100's of residents, tenants, workers and customers going in and out everyday?

It's Trump's America now. They'll be kicked out, and Trump will be reimbursed by the taxpayers for lost rent, etc.
posted by dirigibleman at 7:47 AM on November 17, 2016 [1 favorite]

@paulkrugman
As evidence accumulates that Trump benefited from a lot of late deciders breaking his way, the case that it was Comey gets stronger 1/

@paulkrugman
So it looks more and more as if we had an election swung, in effect, by a faction of our own security sector in alliance with Putin 2/
posted by chris24 at 7:47 AM on November 17, 2016 [15 favorites]

Trump's spokesman says "appropriate precautions" are being taken when asked if his phone is secure when he talks to foreign leaders.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:49 AM on November 17, 2016 [3 favorites]

Honestly based upon his general lifestyle and health I'm not sure that Trump will be healthy enough to serve out 1 term much less 2. Looking at how much Obama has visible aged in the last 8 years it seems unlikely that a man in his seventies who has put on some significant mileage in his life is going to be able to keep up the pace.
posted by vuron at 7:49 AM on November 17, 2016 [3 favorites]

Putin's foreign policy adviser says after 30-min phone call w/ Trump, the Kremlin's still not entirely sure what his position is on Ukraine

Cluelessness is his position. Come on, guys, don't tell me you didn't read the dossier on your own useful moron.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 7:51 AM on November 17, 2016 [3 favorites]

Trump's spokesman says "appropriate precautions" are being taken when asked if his phone is secure when he talks to foreign leaders.

What? Did he turn off outbound called ID?
posted by Talez at 7:52 AM on November 17, 2016 [10 favorites]

the Kremlin's still not entirely sure what his position is on Ukraine

Neither are we. Guess we'll have to start reading Pravda.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 7:52 AM on November 17, 2016

Trump's spokesman says "appropriate precautions" are being taken when asked if his phone is secure when he talks to foreign leaders.

"Advlay, isthay isway Onalday. Imeacray isway oursyay, onay oblempray."
posted by Etrigan at 7:52 AM on November 17, 2016 [12 favorites]

NBC News: Power, Tension and the Purge: Inside the Trump Transition Turmoil: Even the guest list was scrambled early, sources with knowledge of the gathering told NBC News. Gens. Michael Flynn and Keith Kellogg, two close advisers to Trump, had not been invited but joined the group in progress anyway, with Flynn bearing instructions from Trump's son-in-law and consigliore, Jared Kushner, to exercise veto power over all national security decisions.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:53 AM on November 17, 2016 [3 favorites]

Trump's spokesman says "appropriate precautions" are being taken when asked if his phone is secure when he talks to foreign leaders.

Please tell me there are white hat hackers with baby monitors verifying this as we speak...
posted by Mchelly at 7:54 AM on November 17, 2016 [10 favorites]

Well, even Lewandowski thinks it was Comey.

TPM: Comey Letter Energized Trump To Win Election, Lewandowski Says
posted by chris24 at 7:56 AM on November 17, 2016 [3 favorites]

Trump's already done worse things with his private phone than Clinton was even accused of doing with her email. I wonder when the FBI will start investigating. lol
posted by dirigibleman at 8:01 AM on November 17, 2016 [61 favorites]

GOD: Ho, ho! Go, Buckeyes! It is My will that you complete this pass -- aw, yes!

I think we've solved the question of Theodicy.

GO BLUE
posted by leotrotsky at 8:03 AM on November 17, 2016 [4 favorites]

with Flynn bearing instructions from Trump's son-in-law and consigliore, Jared Kushner, to exercise veto power over all national security decisions.

Our chain of command is being replaced with a series of arbitrary pinky-swears. God help us.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 8:21 AM on November 17, 2016 [5 favorites]

Anti-fascist activities update: Last night found the right credit card and subscribed to the Washington Post.

Called and got through to Kirsten Gillibrand's office. Was told she had put out a statement Tuesday decrying bigotry. I asked if she had condemned Bannon specifically. She had not. I urged her to as soon as possible, and I would check back in.

Called Brian Higgins (Congresshuman - D). Asked if he had put out a statement condemning Bannon - no. I urged him to. Staffer asked for my contact info, and I gave him the US address I use for my absentee ballot (sister lives there - can pass on the mail). Said I would check back.

Chuck Schumer - busy signal in DC, mailbox full in local office.
posted by obliquity of the ecliptic at 8:27 AM on November 17, 2016 [6 favorites]

WaPo: Why Democrats need to fight Donald Trump from the moment he takes office
posted by chris24 at 8:31 AM on November 17, 2016 [9 favorites]

"Trump's spokesman says "appropriate precautions" are being taken when asked if his phone is secure when he talks to foreign leaders."

I don't understand the criticism of this. Do you guys think that every candidate running for president has their own intelligence agency on standby to secure stuff? There's a reason the major candidates get Secret Service support. And now that Trump's the President-elect, it'll be the secret service handling stuff. That being said, there's no such thing as a standalone "secure phone". Both parties in a conversation need to be using equipment that's encrypted and such. People have called the White House and other governments around the world and posed as foreign leaders and got through just fine so if your perception that phone calls in the government with other governments are "secure" is not as accurate as you may think. That being said, there are diplomatic lines available for communication, if I remember correctly. Hmm, I should do more research on this.
posted by I-baLL at 8:32 AM on November 17, 2016 [1 favorite]

Just completed my daily calls to my "friendly" congressmen (Sen. Bennett D-CO and Rep. Perlmutter D-CO), thanking both for the statements they released yesterday against Bannon and urging them to stand firm in defence of the ACA.

I've not worked up the nerve to call the "unfriendly" congressman (Sen. Gardner R-CO) yet, but as I get more comfortable at this I may give that a whirl.
posted by jazon at 8:32 AM on November 17, 2016 [5 favorites]

god this would be hilarious if it weren't pants-shittingly terrifying. trump calling Theresa May, sans any briefing from staff:

Trump told May in 1st convo: “If you travel to the US, you should let me know”. Eyebrows sky-high in Whitehall over casual open invite
Trump also told May his late mother was a big fan of the Queen & asked PM to pass on his regards to Her Maj.

wonder if he offered her a discount rate at the Trump International
posted by murphy slaw at 8:42 AM on November 17, 2016 [16 favorites]

I don't understand the criticism of this. Do you guys think that every candidate running for president has their own intelligence agency on standby to secure stuff?

I think it's just unusual for him to be in Trump Tower so much in the first place. President-elects set up transition homes and offices that are ready to go as soon as they get elected. Did Trump Tower go through the same preparations? It definitely didn't sound like it from the way perimeter security is being handled.
posted by FJT at 8:46 AM on November 17, 2016

on the bright side, this is going to be a great object lesson in what selecting the president by random lot would be like
posted by murphy slaw at 8:48 AM on November 17, 2016 [15 favorites]

I think also no one believes anything Trump or his team ever says. Including the people who voted for him.
posted by zutalors! at 8:48 AM on November 17, 2016 [5 favorites]

This Irish politician just said what many American leaders are too scared to say about Trump. Yeah it's a clickbait video clip, but from the floor of the Irish parliament directly calling out fascism and saying, "I am frightened. I am absolutely frightened for what's happening to this world and what's happening to our inability to stand up for it."
posted by zachlipton at 8:48 AM on November 17, 2016 [8 favorites]

It's not certain of course, but I wouldn't make any bets on him being a single term president without some major work by the Democrats.

In my quick scan of the wikipedia last of fascist governments, I saw that the duration of their power tended to break in two ways: under 10 years, and around 40 years. Given the decades of right-wing preparation for this, and the lack of a world war to force them out of power, I would not net money against the Trump regime being a short- term one.
posted by happyroach at 8:50 AM on November 17, 2016 [2 favorites]

Clapper just resigned.
posted by I-baLL at 8:50 AM on November 17, 2016 [1 favorite]

I've always wondered what it would actually look like if a third party vanity candidate somehow won and I guess I got my stupid monkey paw wish.
posted by theodolite at 8:50 AM on November 17, 2016 [2 favorites]

"Mr Clapper will remain in post until President Barack Obama leaves office.

"I submitted my letter of resignation last night which felt pretty good. I've got 64 days left," he said."
posted by I-baLL at 8:50 AM on November 17, 2016

Some action items for today:

-Paul Ryan: I've heard his voicemail box is full. So I'll be calling his various offices in WI to see if I can leave any messages there. If not, I'll send an email.

-Chuck Schumer: "I'm calling to urge the Senator to stop normalizing and attempting to work with Trump. He is a dangerous authoritarian, his advisors praise Japanese internment camps [personal connection to Holocaust]. Please do not work with Trump on infrastructure or anything else. He is dangerous, my family and friends are worried about our ability to remain as free citizens of this country."

My house rep and senators: "I'm calling to request that the [Senator] join with Rep. Elijiah Cummings and Sen. Lindsey Graham in supporting an investigation into Russia's role in the election." (requesting an email response on this one)

Here's a contact list for major news networks. I'm contacting NBC today about Chuck Todd's statement that Trump winning means he's been normalized so the news media has no further obligation to not normalize him.
posted by melissasaurus at 8:51 AM on November 17, 2016 [23 favorites]

We deplored waterboarding when the Japanese did it in WWII, but then the Bush Administration excused it when they did it.

So using the idea of WWII Internment camps for Muslims by Trump supporters isn't surprising, though blandly horrifying.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:53 AM on November 17, 2016 [1 favorite]

Do you guys think that every candidate running for president has their own intelligence agency on standby to secure stuff?

He's not a candidate running for president. He is the President-Elect. The White House Communications Agency does nothing but stand by to secure stuff. I suppose it's possible that President Obama told them not to help, or even that he just didn't tell the Dilettante-in-Chief-Elect that they existed; I doubt either of those things happened.

That being said, there's no such thing as a standalone "secure phone". Both parties in a conversation need to be using equipment that's encrypted and such.

Well, yeah. And the DIlettante-in-Chief-Elect isn't bothering to do his half of that, apparently.
posted by Etrigan at 8:53 AM on November 17, 2016 [7 favorites]

To assist you with your calls, here's a list of those in Congress who have issued statements denounced Bannon's appointment. If your reps are on the list, they've already put out a statement, but you can certainly still let their offices know the issue is important to you.
posted by zachlipton at 8:54 AM on November 17, 2016 [4 favorites]

I'm not sure who to be most frightened of in this administration anymore but this Kobach guy is terrifying.

Potential Trump Attorney General Created A Muslim Registry During The Bush Administration
posted by Golden Eternity at 8:55 AM on November 17, 2016 [5 favorites]

I'm not sure why we're seeing this so much in public schools. Who the hell hired these teachers?

Teaching, esp in public school, pays approximately beans. Bean soup, in some places. Most teachers have some reasons beyond "passionate about teaching + loves kids" to be teachers - and those reasons range from "I'm not good enough at anything else to make a solid career of it" to "I have an agenda to push."

Schools will allow incompetent bigots to remain in teaching roles because they can't find anyone else to work at low-middle-class or below wages, not get paid for overtime, not get paid for "vacations" where they're expected to keep working, follow an increasingly arcane set of regulations, AND babysit a swarm of entitled brats whom they're not allowed to discipline. (Often there are good students, too, and those are what keep teachers in the job. But they no longer have the authority to eject students who aren't event pretending to try to learn.)
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 8:55 AM on November 17, 2016 [8 favorites]

If your reps are on the list, they've already put out a statement, but you can certainly still let their offices know the issue is important to you.

oh wow my worthless 10-pounds-of-shit-in-a-five-pound-bag teabaggin' representative isn't on the list; this is my surprised face
posted by entropicamericana at 8:56 AM on November 17, 2016 [2 favorites]

"He's not a candidate running for president. He is the President-Elect. "

Yes, I started talking about the candidates in general and then specifically said:

"And now that Trump's the President-elect, it'll be the secret service handling stuff. "

"Well, yeah. And the DIlettante-in-Chief-Elect isn't bothering to do his half of that, apparently."

I think you missed my point. If I call you on a phone that encrypts my voice traffic....how are you going to understand anything that I'm saying if you don't have some way of decrypting that voice traffic? And how will I understand anything that you're saying if you're using an encrypted phone to call me but I don't have a way of decrypting your voice traffic? It's not a "bothering to do his half" thing. Both sides need to implement it.
posted by I-baLL at 8:58 AM on November 17, 2016

Any possibility we could get a new thread? This one is getting unwieldy.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 9:00 AM on November 17, 2016 [2 favorites]

Any possibility we could get a new thread? This one is getting unwieldy.

We're going to have these threads forever aren't we.
I need them
posted by Brainy at 9:02 AM on November 17, 2016 [33 favorites]

"And now that Trump's the President-elect, it'll be the secret service handling stuff. "

And yet, they're not. You think that's their fault?

It's not a "bothering to do his half" thing. Both sides need to implement it.

I haven't actually been to the Kremlin, but I'm pretty sure that they have these systems implemented, and that there are protocols in place on both sides for presidents-elect to speak to each other. But the Dilettante-in-Chief-Elect can't be arsed to bother adhering to those.
posted by Etrigan at 9:03 AM on November 17, 2016 [2 favorites]

A dumb question about the whole Muslim registry thing in the form of "list of immigrants from Muslim-majority countries": doesn't this, like, already exist? I'm pretty sure there's a database of the origination and last known residence of every documented immigrant — that's part of the documents than make them "documented" after all. As a bonus, they aren't even limited to the Muslim-majority nations by this, so if we decide someday that, welp, we'd like to keep track of resident Luxembourgers, we can do that, too, with a single query.
posted by jackbishop at 9:04 AM on November 17, 2016 [1 favorite]

Trump spent more time on the phone with Piers Morgan than Theresa May
posted by leotrotsky at 9:06 AM on November 17, 2016 [4 favorites]

based upon his general lifestyle and health I'm not sure that Trump will be healthy enough to serve out 1 term much less 2.

I mean, maybe? But I really hope the Dems have better plans than "hold our breath and wait for Trump to die."
posted by corb at 9:10 AM on November 17, 2016 [18 favorites]

I mean, maybe? But I really hope the Dems have better plans than "hold our breath and wait for Trump to die."

and keep in mind that between trump (allegedly) being wealthy and being president, he will have access to the best doctors and treatments in the world, just tremendous doctors and treatments, believe me
posted by entropicamericana at 9:12 AM on November 17, 2016 [8 favorites]

"And yet, they're not. You think that's their fault?"

Wait, who said that they're not?
posted by I-baLL at 9:14 AM on November 17, 2016

Most teachers have some reasons beyond "passionate about teaching + loves kids" to be teachers - and those reasons range from "I'm not good enough at anything else to make a solid career of it" to "I have an agenda to push."

that's impressively uncharitable, even for you guys.
posted by andrewcooke at 9:15 AM on November 17, 2016 [18 favorites]

I keep on wondering how the people who said that Donald Trump was just sort of saying racist things but didn't really mean them are taking this transition. If any of them are paying attention.

Also, I keep on wondering about the four living supreme court justices that ruled to depower the Voting Rights Act - with the idea that it wasn't needed anymore - are thinking now.

and keep in mind that between trump (allegedly) being wealthy and being president, he will have access to the best doctors and treatments in the world, just tremendous doctors and treatments, believe me

If he listens to them as much as he listens to his tailors, that doesn't do very much.
posted by dinty_moore at 9:15 AM on November 17, 2016 [3 favorites]

I mean, maybe? But I really hope the Dems have better plans than "hold our breath and wait for Trump to die."

Unless he's going to get bird flu and take his entire social/political circle down with him, this doesn't strike me as a good solution because....dun dun dun....President Pence.

My parents live in Indiana - my dad grew up there and they retired there when my mother's health declined enough to need to be near relatives. And he haaaaaaaates Pence. He's hated him pretty much from back when he was a talk show-hosting local mediocrity, so I've been hearing about him for years and all the incredible harm he's done to the state's economy.

I think my dad's increased support for GLBTQ issues may partially be a response to Pence - anything that Pence is in favor of must be such a shitty idea that it is automatically completely discredited. (I mean, he's moved further left as he's gotten older, and one of our old family friends transitioned, so that had an effect too.)
posted by Frowner at 9:18 AM on November 17, 2016 [20 favorites]

We're going to have these threads forever aren't we.

Four more years! Four more years!
posted by kirkaracha at 9:19 AM on November 17, 2016 [11 favorites]

Also, I keep on wondering about the four living supreme court justices that ruled to depower the Voting Rights Act - with the idea that it wasn't needed anymore - are thinking now.

"Mission accomplished"
posted by dirigibleman at 9:21 AM on November 17, 2016 [22 favorites]

Are there detailed visitor logs for places like Camp David like there are for the White House? I'm not seeing any with a quick search. It's really hard to set foot in the White House for anything beyond a tour without a paper trail. I'm guessing these requirements are relaxed outside of the actual building, so if you want to conduct secret off the books meetings, you could do a lot worse than being in a centrally located Manhattan high rise with multiple entrances and enough people coming and going that people can pass without examination.
posted by feloniousmonk at 9:26 AM on November 17, 2016 [9 favorites]

Trump spent more time on the phone with Piers Morgan than Theresa May

Maybe he thinks he's talking to the next British prime minister.
posted by Apocryphon at 9:27 AM on November 17, 2016 [1 favorite]

"I haven't actually been to the Kremlin, but I'm pretty sure that they have these systems implemented, and that there are protocols in place on both sides for presidents-elect to speak to each other."

I'm pretty sure that they don't. Since the President and the President-elect are 2 different things. Putin probably has a direct line to the White House. Yeah, I agree with that. However no US President-elect has a direct line going to them from Russia or any other country because they're not President yet. They're not in the White House until the inauguration . You'll need both Russia and the President-elect to do a public key exchange for secure voice calls to work. Then you'll have to do that with Britain and every other country. What would be the point in doing this every 4 or 8 years for somebody to be able to use for just 2 months until the inauguration?
posted by I-baLL at 9:27 AM on November 17, 2016 [1 favorite]

that's impressively uncharitable, even for you guys.

"Agenda to push" can include "I want the Youth of Tomorrow to understand their rights! And their history! And the tremendous freedoms we have in the US, and how they can become part of that awesome history by exercising those rights!"

Not all agendas are bad; many teachers are in the job because they are devoted to building a better future. Point is, they need something beyond "has the talents to do the job" to put up with the working conditions.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 9:28 AM on November 17, 2016 [4 favorites]

Trump's father lived to his 90s and probably didn't live a healthier lifestyle, though probably far less jet fumes.

Who also had Alzheimer's and other health problems. Surviving to and older age doesn't necessarily equal functioning well into that older age.
posted by Jalliah at 9:28 AM on November 17, 2016 [1 favorite]

"It's really hard to set foot in the White House for anything beyond a tour without a paper trail"

In theory, yes, in practice though....
posted by I-baLL at 9:29 AM on November 17, 2016

Not all agendas are bad; many teachers are in the job because they are devoted to building a better future. Point is, they need something beyond "has the talents to do the job" to put up with the working conditions.

it seems you're speaking of every job that anyone does that isn't solely in it for the money.
posted by philip-random at 9:38 AM on November 17, 2016

Who also had Alzheimer's and other health problems. Surviving to and older age doesn't necessarily equal functioning well into that older age.

good thing there's no precedent for covering up a sitting President's increasing mental incapacity
posted by mightygodking at 9:45 AM on November 17, 2016 [18 favorites]

However no US President-elect has a direct line going to them from Russia or any other country because they're not President yet.

As I said before, there is, in fact, an intelligence agency on standby to secure stuff. There are people whose entire job is to follow the President around and make sure he can talk to, for example, the President of Russia at any given moment. Tasking some of them to follow the President-Elect around would take less time than we've spent having this conversation. They could have put a secure site in Trump Tower by last Wednesday, much less today. Trump apparently doesn't care enough to use them.
posted by Etrigan at 9:45 AM on November 17, 2016 [5 favorites]

Metafilter: kakistocracy (followed by here and then here)

WaPo: Welcome to the Trump kleptocracy

A kakistocratic kleptocracy... that's two "kays"; needs one more "k" and we have "kkk"...
posted by Mister Bijou at 9:47 AM on November 17, 2016 [7 favorites]

"There are people whose entire job is to follow the President around and make sure he can talk to, for example, the President of Russia at any given moment."

Yes, the President. Not the President-elect. Obama is the current President. Trump is the President-elect. Trump will become the President at the inauguration.
posted by I-baLL at 9:49 AM on November 17, 2016

please stop the speculative encrypted phone derail bullshit.
posted by j_curiouser at 9:51 AM on November 17, 2016 [5 favorites]

A new word!

kakistocracy - Government by the least qualified or most unprincipled citizens.

A sad new word to learn.
posted by winna at 9:53 AM on November 17, 2016 [5 favorites]

A kakistocratic kleptocracy... that's two 'kays'; needs one more 'k' and we have 'kkk'...

Kakistocratic kleptocracy kids.
posted by kirkaracha at 9:54 AM on November 17, 2016 [4 favorites]

The Georgia Supreme Court upheld the anti-mask law because "the Klan's history of anonymous violence makes the mask a form of intimidation subject to government control."

I expect the modifications (they want to add "or she" after the current "he" in the law, so it can easily apply to Muslim women, and specify that public areas includes driving), if they pass, will be challenged on the grounds that there is no such history with niqabs and burqas. It wouldn't affect hijabs, which don't cover the face enough to conceal identity.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 10:08 AM on November 17, 2016

A kakistocratic kleptocracy... that's two 'kays'; needs one more 'k' and we have 'kkk'...

• Kermlin-friendly kakistocratic kleptocracy
• Knavish kakistocratic kleptocracy
• Kakistocratic kleptocracy kooks
• Klutzy kakistocratic kleptocracy

I considered Kafkaesque, but I'm not sure if it fits. I feel like that's one of those words lots of people use, but don't really understand.
posted by papercrane at 10:08 AM on November 17, 2016 [5 favorites]

Katastrophic
posted by rustcrumb at 10:09 AM on November 17, 2016 [10 favorites]

I feel like that's one of those words lots of people use, but don't really understand.

I don't know. The Penal Colony seems pretty apt right now.
posted by OverlappingElvis at 10:10 AM on November 17, 2016 [4 favorites]

Hopefully...

Kaput kakistocratic kleptocracy
posted by ian1977 at 10:11 AM on November 17, 2016 [4 favorites]

"Sorkin-esque Obama on apathy, facts vs. fakery, serious arguments vs. propaganda, absolutism, demonization and the breakdown of democracy" (video)
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:11 AM on November 17, 2016 [1 favorite]

Damnit, papercrane just beat me to Kremlin's Kakistocratic Kleptocracy.

This.

Meanwhile, people have gone back to talking about sportsball and holiday recipes. La-la-la
posted by NorthernLite at 10:12 AM on November 17, 2016 [2 favorites]

Colonel Klinkesque Kakistocratic Kleptocracy
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:17 AM on November 17, 2016 [1 favorite]

Starting in the late 70s? early 80s? "working class" or "lower class" became more and more of a pejorative term that fell out of favor as an economic label, and the culture in general starting to refer to everyone employed who makes less than like $100k or something as "middle class."

Which correlates fairly well with a shift towards more "working class" work being done by minorities.

It has kind of surprised me to see "working class" come up again as a thing during this whole discussion. I griped about this for a long time.

And it's come back in a way that twists the term again. Like I said upthread, "working class" is traditionally regarded as a transitional class. There are lots of people in sparsely populated areas who've had a kind of "okay subsistence" existence for a long time. The kind of work that's being done there hasn't changed much over the years. What they want is what they have, along with maybe some of what they think everybody else is having in terms of creature comforts. What they don't want is the kind of social change they see from afar even though it doesn't directly affect them, because their communities have been good at limiting change through implicit conformity and/or outward migration.

That doesn't have much to do with working-class culture or identity as it's commonly described -- particularly in the USA, with its narrative of immigration. Working-class communities are traditionally messy melting pots where the unifying factor is the availability of work. You do the work, you try to make sure that your kids don't have to do the same work, and eventually others take your place. That has its own problems, because of how older generations regard incomers who have the same economic motivations as their parents but look different, have different places of worship, etc. And if the sources of work go away, everyone gets stuck.

So there are at minimum two different strands here that need to be untangled: people in places configured to stay the same who fear change, and people in places configured for change who fear being stuck with the same. There are points of collision -- again, that Boston Globe piece on Gwinnett County, GA points to what happens when farm country becomes affordable metro Atlanta -- but it's a mistake to think that those motivations are identical, or even mutually resolvable, and to group them under the label of "working class".
posted by holgate at 10:19 AM on November 17, 2016 [6 favorites]

Seriously, don't minimize this shit.

Sorry, didn't mean to do that, and I fully expect such a law - and just the attempt to pass it - would result in a wave of terrible harassment. However, the law technically doesn't cover anything that works like a hijab. That's worth knowing, because women wearing hijabs who are harassed under the guise of the law will have good grounds for a legal defense.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 10:19 AM on November 17, 2016 [1 favorite]

However, the law technically doesn't cover anything that works like a hijab. That's worth knowing, because women wearing hijabs who are harassed under the guise of the law will have good grounds for a legal defense.

You're assuming that the woman will (a) be processed through a normal legal system (b) not die or be seriously injured in that process (c) will have effective legal counsel (d) have a non-racist non-trumpist judge (in GA) and (e) have an opportunity to mount a legal defense.

We cannot count on "the Constitution." We cannot count on the courts. Maybe in some cases, these institutions and systems might work, and the targeted individual might be ok. But the "justice" system already does not work for many many people of color, and it's only going to get worse.
posted by melissasaurus at 10:26 AM on November 17, 2016 [18 favorites]

Here's an example of the insane propaganda published by Alexander Dugin's "think tank." If Russia really does have a strategy anything like this and Bannon/Flynn are willing to enable them - holy shit.

WHERE TRUMP MAY HAVE IT RIGHT

If we are transitioning into a new age of fascism, I wonder if what is happening here will shed some light on what happened in the twenties and thirties as much as the reverse. The chaos at the end of WWI with the Russian revolution, the German revolution, and the fear of Bolshevism is usually credited with creating the conditions for the violent rise of Mussolini and the rise of Hitler. But I was recently reading a bit about this and I think the SDP and Weimar government were doing much better than people realize in 1933 which is amazing considering what Germany had been through. The self-sabotage of Brexit and Trump is really hard to explain and the rise of Hitler may be more arbitrary than usually described.

I just saw a bit of Obama and Merkel's surreal press conference. They both look really upset.
posted by Golden Eternity at 10:33 AM on November 17, 2016 [6 favorites]

If messaging is part of the issue and the definitions of who is in the working class, who is the middle class as well people are perceiving what 'class' they fall into seem to be muddled and debated ad nauseum maybe it's time to take the word 'class' out of the message. I don't mean ignore class, or class analysis or the who, the where and the why of it when it comes to actual policy but removing the literal word from the message. Replace it with something like 'people'.

'Working people'. 'Working folk'. I've heard 'working Americans' but I think even this may have been tainted with ideas around 'real Americans' and issues of 'who counts'.
Go down to the most unifying of foundations and be just 'people'.
posted by Jalliah at 10:34 AM on November 17, 2016 [6 favorites]

"And Trump could go to the fucking White House instead of making calls from Trump Tower. Or wherever else that's already been secured by the government, for this express purpose, because it's the government's job to secure this stuff for national security."

Well, no, he can't go to the White House to make calls yet.

"The criticism is that, much as Secret Service protection is extended to Trump prior to becoming Actual President, other government services can be extended to Trump. "

It's the Secret Service that's going to secure stuff (like look for bugs, etc) So I'm not actually sure what the criticism is.

Oh, and when I said:

" Do you guys think that every candidate running for president has their own intelligence agency on standby to secure stuff?"

I meant candidates prior to the election ofcourse.

Anyways, my point was me basically wondering what was the pushback against the following quote:

"Trump's spokesman says "appropriate precautions" are being taken when asked if his phone is secure when he talks to foreign leaders."

since nothing has been presented to indicate that the Secret Service isn't doing their job. Etrigan said that the Secret Service wasn't doing that for him but I haven't seen anything that indicates this anywhere else.
posted by I-baLL at 10:36 AM on November 17, 2016

For anyone looking for the full Obama-Merkel press conference (VO-translated to english)
posted by rp at 10:41 AM on November 17, 2016 [1 favorite]

it's the post-factual age. do not bother us with facts.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 10:41 AM on November 17, 2016 [2 favorites]

Georgia Bill Could Make Niqabs And Hijabs Illegal In Public
The legislation would amend a law originally created to fight the Ku Klux Klan.

Nuns' habits, too, right? Same logic?
Ha ha ha ha need more booze.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:42 AM on November 17, 2016 [4 favorites]

since nothing has been presented to indicate that the Secret Service isn't doing their job.

As noted above by murphy slaw:

There is no WHCA set-up in Trump Tower and no temporary SCIF (yet), so it's a reasonable assumption that everything he says is in the clear.

You seem to be wavering among "We can't prove that he isn't using secure lines" and "It doesn't matter whether he's using secure lines" and "He can't possibly be using secure lines." Can you settle on one?
posted by Etrigan at 10:46 AM on November 17, 2016 [7 favorites]

Georgia Bill Could Make Niqabs And Hijabs Illegal In Public
The legislation would amend a law originally created to fight the Ku Klux Klan.

Nuns' habits, too, right? Same logic?

You joke, but you have to remember that plenty of Georgia Christians are still suspicious of Catholics.
posted by dinty_moore at 10:49 AM on November 17, 2016 [1 favorite]

@OmanReagan: "The fascists are organizing their new SS, Trumpist "Lion's Guard" militias continue to recruit."

[real]
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 10:51 AM on November 17, 2016 [8 favorites]

We have 100 days to stop Donald Trump from systemically corrupting our institutions - The transition period is our last best chance to save the republic - Matthew Yglesias
posted by Golden Eternity at 10:55 AM on November 17, 2016 [10 favorites]

Ryan points at a national monument while Trump points at his own
posted by neroli at 10:55 AM on November 17, 2016 [12 favorites]

I'm starting to revise everything I think about what happened. The message was fine. The messanger was overshadowed by her personal failings and stunningly incompetent:

In Michigan alone, a senior battleground state operative told HuffPost that the state party and local officials were running at roughly one-tenth the paid canvasser capacity that Sen. John Kerry (D-Mass.) had when he ran for president in 2004. Desperate for more human capital, the state party and local officials ended up raising $300,000 themselves to pay 500 people to help canvass in the election’s closing weeks. By that point, however, they were operating in the dark. One organizer said that in a precinct in Flint, they were sent to a burned down trailer park. No one had taken it off the list of places to visit because no one had been there until the final weekend. Clinton lost the state by 12,000 votes.

John Kerry wins this campaign. Clinton lost it by believing she didn't have to compete for it.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:56 AM on November 17, 2016 [5 favorites]

I really think that the Clinton campaign looked at Trump, saw he had no ground game, and then figured that they didn't have to try as hard.
posted by dinty_moore at 11:09 AM on November 17, 2016 [6 favorites]

so if you want to conduct secret off the books meetings, you could do a lot worse than being in a centrally located Manhattan high rise with multiple entrances and enough people coming and going that people can pass without examination.

I bet 1000 internet fun bucks that the sole reason Trump wants to set up shop in Trump tower is that the dude who does his shitty weave (who already has an office down the hall from him in the tower) won't show up on some official White House visitor registry.
posted by PenDevil at 11:12 AM on November 17, 2016 [10 favorites]

We have 100 days to stop Donald Trump from systemically corrupting our institutions - The transition period is our last best chance to save the republic - Matthew Yglesias

It suddenly feels like one should move their email service out of US company hands. The irony isn't lost.

It suddenly feels like anti-trump folks should be reading up past protest movements and strikes. Who has time to spend all day protesting, when mortgage is due? Networks of staying afloat might need to be established, but I doubt many people are thinking that far or have the capacity to do said network.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:12 AM on November 17, 2016 [4 favorites]

Re: Michigan and Wisconsin - Clinton had plenty of staff and money in Ohio and Pennsylvania, and still lost them.
posted by zakur at 11:13 AM on November 17, 2016 [7 favorites]

"You seem to be wavering among "We can't prove that he isn't using secure lines" and "It doesn't matter whether he's using secure lines" and "He can't possibly be using secure lines." Can you settle on one?"

no, I'm not wavering. You seem to be misreading what I'm saying.

And, "There is no WHCA set-up in Trump Tower and no temporary SCIF (yet), so it's a reasonable assumption that everything he says is in the clear." doesn't indicate anything. A SCIF is for handling classified information, not for phone calls and the WHCA is a support agency for the president. That's going to be needed if he decides to do his work out of the Trump Tower (hopefully not since that will jam up so much of midtown-Manhattan traffic that it'll be a nightmare for everybody working and living there and will be a nightmare for the Secret Service since it'll be a pain to secure due to the thousands of people packed nearby due to the terrible street-closure design. What's normally used for secure communications by government officials is stuff like:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Terminal_Equipment

which replaced the STU-III:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STU-III

So, to reiterate, he couldn't have been using secure lines prior the election. It doesn't matter if he's getting regular calls on a regular phone for regular conversations with foreign leaders if it's just chitchat, and if classified information is being talked about then it's talked about on one of those secure phones. I highly doubt that Trump knows (or remembers) classified information. And it's annoying that people are focusing on these things instead of actual matters that are more important. "Oh, he might not have a SCIF nor does he have a whole white house support agency in his tower" is more of an indication that he's not going to stay at the Trump Tower but will, instead, move to the White House than it is an indication of anything else (except for, maybe, an indication of being prepared. I really don't think he expected to win.)
posted by I-baLL at 11:14 AM on November 17, 2016

@OmanReagan: "The fascists are organizing their new SS, Trumpist "Lion's Guard" militias continue to recruit."

[real]

This is worth reporting to the SPLC, I just sent them an email and I hope a lot of others are too.
posted by jason_steakums at 11:14 AM on November 17, 2016 [8 favorites]

Oh, and I'm done on that whole line of commenting. But if you do want to talk more about it then MeMail me. Or if anybody knows anything interesting, I'm all ears on memail as well. I haven't been up to date on the news the past 2 days.
posted by I-baLL at 11:15 AM on November 17, 2016

Yes, Clinton who led in 37 straight polls of MI by an average of 7 points is clearly stunningly incompetent for focusing limited resources elsewhere.
posted by chris24 at 11:19 AM on November 17, 2016 [44 favorites]

Yes, Clinton who led in 37 straight polls of MI by an average of 7 points is clearly stunningly incompetent for focusing limited resources elsewhere.

Her people on the scene were telling her otherwise and felt so strongly about it that they raised their own money.
posted by futz at 11:24 AM on November 17, 2016 [14 favorites]

by Leonid Ragozin:
The 'us and them' divide worked for Putin and it will work for Trump

Might be because of my European optics, but this seems a particularly acute (and very worrying) take:

For someone like Trump or Putin xenophobia is only a means of mobilising their constituency, not an end in itself, like it was for Hitler. People like them have no qualms about embracing someone who they hated just a second ago. Trump and Putin are ecumenical nationalists.

[...]

The likes of Putin and Trump don’t create ethnic movements, they create gangs, in which the only criteria that really matters is whether you are “with us” or “against us”, whether you are ready to insult or hurt the “others” no matter who they are and what you felt about them in the first place. They are mob artists, they are majoritarians or – translating the latter term into Russian language – the Bolsheviks.

Trump’s and Putin’s advantage is that they are not bound by logic or intellectual decency. Their constituencies have the span of attention of a toddler – they won’t even notice the leader and his propaganda machine switching from hating to praising and coopting a certain group.

[...]

Trump’s spin doctors will have no problem breaking up this [recent anti-Trump demonstration] movement, pitting its diverse components against each other, the same way Putin did with the Bolotnaya Square protests in 2012.

With their old-school rhetoric and linguistic taboos, left-wingers and liberals look obsolete against Trump and Putin, who both represent a very modern, sophisticated and media-savvy political movement. To beat him, Trump’s opponents need to start everything anew and unite under more universal, and unifying, slogans.


What will stop the diabolical efficacy of dividi-et-impera?
posted by progosk at 11:24 AM on November 17, 2016 [5 favorites]

Brandon Blatcher: It suddenly feels like one should move their email service out of US company hands.

I know I would. No doubt about it.
Email, as well as as many other services as possible. But yes, email, for sure.
posted by Too-Ticky at 11:25 AM on November 17, 2016

Having finally gotten some time to catch up with the thread, I find myself unsatisfied with how much hand-waving and goalpost-moving has occurred with respect to the category of voters that the Democrats should allegedly have reached out to more, or should reach out to more going forward.

At one time during the 2016 campaign, the "white working class" phrasing was used to refer to lower-income whites who were voting for Trump, but then the numbers showed that Trump's voters are actually better off. This inconvenient truth shifted the focus from income to education level ("white non-college-educated"), aiming more at the "elitist liberals" angle instead of income disparity. When that argument is called into question, we hear about "well, even if these folks might be winning compared to others, they live in areas that have experienced sharp declines" (even though evidence suggests otherwise), "so maybe they're doing okay, but others around them aren't, so they feel like they're losing".

Without any sort of agreement between what segment of the population we're actually talking about (other than that they're white!), the argument oscillates freely between being based on economics, education, or geography, to the point where any evidence of attempts to help people marginalized on any of these axes can be called into question because, even though it may help a particular segment of the "working class", it's not micro-targeted enough to the segment that's supposedly the key to a winning electoral coalition.

Holding the race variable constant while all other factors that may define this must-have slice of the electorate are variable is nothing less than a request for race-based affirmative action for white people who may or may not have certain financial, educational, or geographic characteristics. If that's what you're advocating, then say so. If not, then you have an obligation to be specific about what other non-race-based attributes define the voters you think need to be appealed to, how those appeals would be made, and how those appeals would be heard by other demographics within the Democratic coalition.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:26 AM on November 17, 2016 [21 favorites]

It doesn't matter if he's getting regular calls on a regular phone for regular conversations with foreign leaders if it's just chitchat, and if classified information is being talked about then it's talked about on one of those secure phones.


An email between Clinton and her staff about scheduling a phone call with Kofi Annan was considered classified. I'm pretty sure conversations between world leaders and soon-to-be-US-presidents pass the bar for classification, even if they're just talking about golf or whatever. He is not yet the president, he hasn't even been elected by the electoral college yet, he doesn't have the power to unilaterally declassify information yet.
posted by melissasaurus at 11:29 AM on November 17, 2016 [7 favorites]

CNN: JUST IN: Donald Trump will meet with Mitt Romney, one of his fiercest critics, to discuss potential Cabinet role.
posted by PenDevil at 11:29 AM on November 17, 2016 [3 favorites]

CNN: JUST IN: Donald Trump will meet with Mitt Romney, one of his fiercest critics, to discuss potential Cabinet role.

"Kiss the ring, Mittens."
posted by Talez at 11:31 AM on November 17, 2016 [3 favorites]

CNN: JUST IN: Donald Trump will meet with Mitt Romney, one of his fiercest critics, to discuss potential Cabinet role.

that's exactly the kind of integrity i've come to expect from republicans
posted by entropicamericana at 11:32 AM on November 17, 2016 [10 favorites]

"That is simply wrong. He has been briefed repeatedly on classified information, starting when he was the party's nominee, and more concretely after he won the election. As soon as he won, he started getting the same briefings the sitting President gets."

Yeah, you're right. I meant to say "much classified information" but didn't. Still, yeah, both your points are valid.
posted by I-baLL at 11:33 AM on November 17, 2016

A few years ago I read a really good short essay that I can't find about how, basically, it's the petty bourgeoisie that goes fascist, and I think that's what's actually going on. It's why the people we conventionally think of as "working class" (less than $50,000/year, etc) went for Hillary, and why the Trump voters in general seem better off than one would expect given the "economic anxiety" narrative.

Trump voters aren't the classic petty bourgeoisie, but then we're not in classic times. They're close enough - between the working class and the true bourgeois (professional, "upper-middle") class, unstable in identity, only politically successful inasmuch as they ally themselves with either the working class or the professional class.

I found this piece, which isn't as clear or as historically rooted as the one I remember and can't find, but which gets at some of the ideas.

Basically, the problem with our analysis is that US class discourse is not good at distinguishing the different class interests of different fractions. We lump the petty bourgeoisie in with the working class, we say "middle class" to mean "the bottom part of the professional class and the rich petty bourgeoisie" and we don't really analyze groups based on their actual class concerns (like where their income comes from and who they exploit/are exploited by) , just on dollars and social markers.
posted by Frowner at 11:36 AM on November 17, 2016 [15 favorites]

Guys, if Romney can kiss his ass and sweet talk him into picking a competent cabinet (not even necessarily one I agree with, just one that at least understands wtf they're doing), I'm all for it.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 11:36 AM on November 17, 2016 [17 favorites]

Warren's speaking on the Senate floor right now.
posted by melissasaurus at 11:37 AM on November 17, 2016 [1 favorite]

CNN: JUST IN: Donald Trump will meet with Mitt Romney, one of his fiercest critics, to discuss potential Cabinet role.

"Kiss the ring, Mittens."

that's exactly the kind of integrity i've come to expect from republicans


I totally get this reaction. But at this point, with all of the other very bad and terrifying people that have been floated and numerous not so terrifying people saying "OMG stay away and running" I'd feel a whole lot better if there were some less terrifying and more sane people at least giving it a shot.

Romney up until this point, I would argue is 'not good, but not good within normal parameters'.
posted by Jalliah at 11:39 AM on November 17, 2016 [25 favorites]

Facebook fake-news writer: ‘I think Donald Trump is in the White House because of me’

Honestly, people are definitely dumber. They just keep passing stuff around. Nobody fact-checks anything anymore — I mean, that’s how Trump got elected. He just said whatever he wanted, and people believed everything, and when the things he said turned out not to be true, people didn’t care because they’d already accepted it. It’s real scary. I’ve never seen anything like it.

My sites were picked up by Trump supporters all the time. I think Trump is in the White House because of me. His followers don’t fact-check anything — they’ll post everything, believe anything. His campaign manager posted my story about a protester getting paid $3,500 as fact. Like, I made that up. I posted a fake ad on Craigslist.
posted by futz at 11:41 AM on November 17, 2016 [11 favorites]

Romney for Health and Human Services and just have him rebrand the ACA "Romneycare" and Jesus Fucking Christ save some people's health insurance. He's no Sylvia Mathews Burwell but at least he has some experience with the subject.
posted by Joey Michaels at 11:42 AM on November 17, 2016 [27 favorites]

To be honest Mitt Romney, who is at least sane, would be doing us all a favor if he took a cabinet position

2008 me would not believe the amount of fervent hope I am investing in Mitt Romney today.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 11:42 AM on November 17, 2016 [51 favorites]

He just said whatever he wanted, and people believed everything

well he said "believe me" a lot, what else where they supposed to do? you just can't argue with that
posted by entropicamericana at 11:44 AM on November 17, 2016 [7 favorites]

(Or 2012 even...)
posted by paper chromatographologist at 11:44 AM on November 17, 2016 [4 favorites]

2008 me would not believe the amount of fervent hope I am investing in Mitt Romney today.

2008/12 me would not believe I'd probably take the whole Bush administration right now.
posted by chris24 at 11:45 AM on November 17, 2016 [19 favorites]

2008/12 me would not believe I'd probably take the whole Bush administration right now.

I wouldn't go that far. Cheney is pure evil. What heart number is he on now? 3 or 4? He keeps getting new ones and they just shrivel up and die once placed inside his chest cavity.
posted by Talez at 11:48 AM on November 17, 2016 [11 favorites]

This fight about secure telephones is increasingly pointless. The broader point is that Trump is chatting with world leaders without any support from State, NSC, WHCA, or any of the other government agencies responsible for such things. Here's a decent article about how Presidential phone calls work. These calls are serious business. As Yes Minister put it, "they don't ask you to Number 10 for a drink just because they think you're thirsty!"

If the President is going to talk to, say, the Prime Minister of Japan, there are career government employees who are responsible for knowing literally everything about the US-Japan relationship, and they prepare material on what topics might come up, what to say and not to say, these are the important issues to both countries, remember to say something about their kid in grad school at Harvard, etc... Even if you choose to do your own thing, you'd be crazy to jump on a call like that without taking advantage of the information provided by the experts who do this for a living. Otherwise, you can easily "uh-huh" your way into agreeing with a dangerous or even deadly position.

Just look at how Bannon got Trump to change his positions live on his radio show through some shaping and suggestion. It's pretty to imagine the same process being carried out over the sovereignty of Ukraine or control of Taiwan or any number of things where an uninformed, unprepared, and uninterested President-elect can carry life-or-death implications.
posted by zachlipton at 11:48 AM on November 17, 2016 [45 favorites]

Cheney is pure evil.

Pence is worse. A dominionist anti-abortion, anti-gay rights extremist.
posted by chris24 at 11:49 AM on November 17, 2016 [21 favorites]

Secretary of State Giuliani
vs.
Secretary of State Romney


I mean which one makes you think 'Hey it's less likely that with this guy part of the world will end up dying in fireball' or 'less likely that geo-political relations will completely crumble due sheer incompetence, ignorance and the inability to even talk properly.'
posted by Jalliah at 11:51 AM on November 17, 2016 [9 favorites]

Yes, Clinton who led in 37 straight polls of MI by an average of 7 points is clearly stunningly incompetent for focusing limited resources elsewhere.

Her people on the scene were telling her otherwise and felt so strongly about it that they raised their own money.

That wasn't "her people", it was "the state party and local officials". The Michigan Democratic Party was working downballot to ride her 7-point-up coattails.
posted by Etrigan at 11:51 AM on November 17, 2016 [3 favorites]

Trump's Muslim registry wouldn't be illegal, constitutional law experts say

Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach, known for his hard-line stance on immigration, told Reuters in a story published Wednesday that he has been in regular contact with Trump’s immigration advisers and that the president-elect’s team is considering a system modeled after a controversial one implemented in the months after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. It fulfills Trump’s promise of “extreme vetting” for immigrants from countries affected by terrorism, a threshold he has yet to flesh out more fully.

That program, labeled the National Security Entry-Exit Registration System, required those entering the U.S. from a list of certain countries — all but one predominantly Muslim — to register when they arrived in the U.S., undergo more thorough interrogation and be fingerprinted. The system, referred to by the acronym ,NSEERS was criticized by civil rights groups for targeting a religious group and was phased out in 2011 because it was found to be redundant with other immigration systems.

ACLU, 2011: Homeland Security Suspends Ineffective, Discriminatory Immigration Program
posted by kirkaracha at 11:54 AM on November 17, 2016 [1 favorite]

GOP learning wrong lessons from Trump win, Republicans fear

Republican operatives spent four years warning that the party needed to diversify — or risk a blowout at the ballot box. Donald Trump spent the campaign trafficking in divisive racial rhetoric — and he won anyway.

Now, those who pushed for a more inclusive GOP fear that their party will absorb the wrong takeaways from Trump’s win, and that the momentum behind efforts to expand the Republican tent to include more minorities and young people has evaporated.

posted by kirkaracha at 11:56 AM on November 17, 2016 [10 favorites]

My local NPR station just sent me an email that contains a request for thoughts about how KQED covers news. If you hate NPR's coverage (and especially if you live in the Bay Area), might be worth calling the line. Ask them to stop contributing to the normalization.
posted by TypographicalError at 11:59 AM on November 17, 2016 [3 favorites]

IF there is another election, there will indubitably be less minorities in the country, so...
posted by entropicamericana at 11:59 AM on November 17, 2016 [1 favorite]

Just look at how Bannon got Trump to change his positions live on his radio show through some shaping and suggestion.

A dramatisation of the first Trump/Putin telephone call:

Putin: And yes we must keep nuclear weapons safe, but maintenance it is difficult, our engineers say they have tough time looking after our 400 warheads, how many do you have to worry about?

Trump: Huge problem, huge. The Airforce general I spoke to, and he's a top guy let me tell you, just a great guy, said that the 200 in Kansas are in great shape, just the best but the 150 in Montana are too old and need to be refurbish... Is someone giving you a high five, cos that's what it sounds like on the phone...

Putin: Is interference *rustles crumpled up ball of paper near handset* see, now you were saying about Montana?
posted by PenDevil at 12:00 PM on November 17, 2016 [5 favorites]

Per @ivancouronne pool report, Trump advance director told press Trump will embark on a "victory tour" of states he won
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:00 PM on November 17, 2016 [3 favorites]

Pence is worse. A dominionist anti-abortion, anti-gay rights extremist.

Pence seems weaker and less cunning than Cheney. I don't know if he has what it takes to be able to execute his agenda like the Bush cabal did
posted by Apocryphon at 12:03 PM on November 17, 2016 [2 favorites]

Per @ivancouronne pool report, Trump advance director told press Trump will embark on a "victory tour" of states he won

Good to know that he's acknowledging the #notmypresident signs.
posted by Etrigan at 12:04 PM on November 17, 2016

How were the Michigan Democratic Party not "her people" in Michigan? I mean they weren't directly on the Clinton campaign staff, but the campaign is supposed to be coordinated with local and state party leadership.

We spent all of 2016 mocking the Trump campaign for being basically openly at war with the GOP apparatus and turns out the Clinton campaign was just quietly ignoring warning signs from party leaders in at least one key battleground state.

I largely agree that much of the criticism directed at Clinton and her campaign in the week since this disaster has been unhelpful and/or misogynist. This, though, is just a failure. They could have done better. Not only did their internal polling end up sucking just as much as the public polling did, they also apparently did not pay attention to the folks on the ground until the very final days, when it was already too late.
posted by tivalasvegas at 12:05 PM on November 17, 2016 [8 favorites]

Trump advance director told press Trump will embark on a "victory tour" of states he won

And fuck you blue states. Quite the uniter this guy.
posted by chris24 at 12:06 PM on November 17, 2016 [11 favorites]

"Victory tour" or "field guidance," a la Kim Jong Un?

Please let it be field guidance, because that Twitter feed would entertain me in these dark times.
posted by emelenjr at 12:07 PM on November 17, 2016

That wasn't "her people", it was "the state party and local officials".

That seems a little nitpicky.

In the closing weeks of the presidential campaign, Hillary Clinton’s staff in key Midwest states sent out alarms to their headquarters in Brooklyn.
posted by futz at 12:08 PM on November 17, 2016 [3 favorites]

i'd be happy if he never set foot in the glorious california republic again tbqh
posted by entropicamericana at 12:08 PM on November 17, 2016 [7 favorites]

I'm already looking ahead to 2020. My candidate of choice for the Democrats is Mr. George Clooney. Favorite now so you can easily find this on November 6, 2019 (or just wait for my "I Told You So" tour).
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 12:09 PM on November 17, 2016 [12 favorites]

what's the over/under for 'days until emergency powers are invoked'?
posted by j_curiouser at 12:09 PM on November 17, 2016 [2 favorites]

Treating the states he won differently than the states he lost is exactly the dictator behavior I was afraid of. It is impossible to overstate how dangerous that is to a free democracy and to hope of avoiding civil war.
posted by corb at 12:10 PM on November 17, 2016 [50 favorites]

TPS, that's exactly what I have been thinking! Not kidding at all. CLOONEY/BOOKER.

#I'mwithyou
posted by mochapickle at 12:10 PM on November 17, 2016

How were the Michigan Democratic Party not "her people" in Michigan? I mean they weren't directly on the Clinton campaign staff, but the campaign is supposed to be coordinated with local and state party leadership.

They have their own agendas and their own levels of access. By saying they weren't "her people", I meant to point out that it wasn't Clinton not listening to her own staff, it was Clinton not listening to people who have no reason not to inflate their worries. Every state party tells the national party and the presidential campaign that they need more money and more volunteers and more ads and more visits and everything. I'm sure the DC Democratic Party was telling the Clinton campaign that they needed help too.

And frankly, I know some of those Michigan people who were working on both the Clinton and MDP sides, and they weren't worried about Clinton not getting the 16 EVs, they were worried about her coattails not stretching into the 7th and 8th districts.
posted by Etrigan at 12:12 PM on November 17, 2016 [13 favorites]

Trump advance director told press Trump will embark on a "victory tour" of states he won

Because the only fun thing about politics for him is the thousands of adoring fans. So that's what he's going to continue doing. Let Mike & Jared & Steve do the hard work, he's gonna enjoy himself.

You know who else had rallies after winning office....? Nah, this is too fucking easy.
posted by suelac at 12:12 PM on November 17, 2016 [2 favorites]

Erg, a victory tour, because he loves the rallies. And because he wants to poke the blue states in the eye, he leaves them off.

Connect this with the earlier comments about forming an extra-GOP political pressure organization and we can sorta see his plan for getting recalcitrant GOP pols to go along with whatever kleptomaniacial policy/appointments he asks them to put forward.

I had hoped Obama would do to same back in the day, minus the kleptomaniacial bits.
posted by notyou at 12:13 PM on November 17, 2016

There will not be a normal election in 2020. They already succeeded in suppressing enough votes and sabotaging things with Wikileaks/Russia/FBI this year and they didn't have full insider power.
posted by melissasaurus at 12:14 PM on November 17, 2016 [8 favorites]

By 2020 we will welcome EU, or even Russian, election monitors.

Hell, we needed them this time.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:17 PM on November 17, 2016 [1 favorite]

Arizona's Ruben Gallego (D, AZ 7th Rep) has a barnburner of an anti-Trump speech.
posted by emjaybee at 12:18 PM on November 17, 2016 [17 favorites]

In the closing weeks of the presidential campaign, Hillary Clinton’s staff in key Midwest states sent out alarms to their headquarters in Brooklyn.

This matches what we observed earlier: the state of the race changed dramatically in the last couple of weeks of the campaign, especially in the last week, with an unusually high percentage of undecideds breaking for Trump at the last minute, and the Trump campaign noticed the true extent of it first.

It's an interesting academic question to look back and question whether it would have made a damn bit of difference if the Clinton campaign really fully picked up on it by, say, October 15th, whether some last-minute efforts at that point would have really flipped any states, but I think it's important to realize that the map really did change significantly through October into November.
posted by zachlipton at 12:19 PM on November 17, 2016 [5 favorites]

It's official: Tim Ryan challenging Nancy Pelosi for Minority Leader.

itshappening.gif
posted by zachlipton at 12:22 PM on November 17, 2016 [2 favorites]

an unusually high percentage of undecideds breaking for Trump at the last minute, and the Trump campaign noticed the true extent of it first.

Well, "first" on the evening of November 8th.
posted by Etrigan at 12:24 PM on November 17, 2016

They had signs the race was tightening. They, and everyone else, were surprised it tightened that much.
posted by zachlipton at 12:27 PM on November 17, 2016

Yeah, I don't get the idea that the Trump camp really thought they were winning it either, otherwise he wouldn't have bothered with the court injunction in Nevada or complained about all of those people voting.
posted by dinty_moore at 12:27 PM on November 17, 2016 [3 favorites]

Fucking Comey.
posted by suelac at 12:28 PM on November 17, 2016 [15 favorites]

Arizona's Ruben Gallego (D, AZ 7th Rep) has a barnburner of an anti-Trump speech.

That's a heck of a speech. Can people tweet it at Joy Reid or Josh Marshall or someone who might care?
posted by zachlipton at 12:30 PM on November 17, 2016 [4 favorites]

JUST IN: Trump is considering Mitt Romney for secretary of state - report. See further shortlist here:
posted by Golden Eternity at 12:30 PM on November 17, 2016 [2 favorites]

JUST IN: Trump is considering Mitt Romney for secretary of state - report. See further shortlist here:

God puhleez.
posted by chris24 at 12:32 PM on November 17, 2016 [1 favorite]

By 2020 we will welcome EU, or even Russian, election monitors.

I think we had at least one of those in 2016.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 12:33 PM on November 17, 2016 [5 favorites]

the court injunction in Nevada

ahh remember Nevada Judge? aka the last happy moment of 11/8
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:34 PM on November 17, 2016 [17 favorites]

I... think I could deal with Mitt Romney as Secretary of State.

Someone shoot me.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 12:35 PM on November 17, 2016 [18 favorites]

JUST IN: Trump is considering Mitt Romney for secretary of state - report. See further shortlist here:

That sounds vaguely sane, which is the best I could hope for at this point.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:35 PM on November 17, 2016 [12 favorites]

Right now, he's making Romney and Giuliani complete Apprentice-style challenges up in the Tower.
posted by mochapickle at 12:36 PM on November 17, 2016 [8 favorites]

Donald Trump has a curious talent for making Mitt Romney look good.
posted by Sticherbeast at 12:37 PM on November 17, 2016 [14 favorites]

Right now, he's making Romney and Giuliani complete Apprentice-style challenges up in in the Tower.

WE WANT THUNDERDOME!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:37 PM on November 17, 2016 [2 favorites]

@NeinQuarterly: Trump + Mitt Romney. Because what's evil without banality.
posted by Golden Eternity at 12:39 PM on November 17, 2016 [17 favorites]

At least I don't get the sense that Romney would cause a new world war in a fit of pique. It's a low standard, but it's a standard.
posted by suelac at 12:41 PM on November 17, 2016 [16 favorites]

It's a low standard, but we're looking up at it from here.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 12:42 PM on November 17, 2016 [16 favorites]

The Romney rumor is the bouquet of flowers the abusive husband brings home as he says "I didn't mean to hit you, baby." Trump goes slightly toward typical conservatism when the narrative turns slightly against him. As soon as the media is like "oh, Romney's not so bad, maybe Trump will be ok" - that's when he hits you again. It's part of the gaslighting and testing boundaries.

Everything Trump does is based on the model of an abusive spouse or parent. His less-horrific overtures are part of that model.
posted by melissasaurus at 12:46 PM on November 17, 2016 [73 favorites]

British Minister Calls Donald Trump “Lord Trump”, Prompts Laughter

Asked about Theresa May’s plans to meet the billionaire ahead of his inauguration, Anelay replied:

“When the Prime Minister had a conversation on the phone with Lord Trump….with Lord Trump?! “

Peers on all sides of the Lords burst out laughing, and after a pause the minister added: “I’ve clearly made one of the most popular proposals for an increase in the size of this House ever.”

posted by zachlipton at 12:47 PM on November 17, 2016 [3 favorites]

Man, part of me really agrees that Romney would be remarkably acceptable given some of the other names floated. And then another part of me whispers "Don't say that too loud! If he hears rational people saying we like him he'll pull the nomination just to spite us"

Fucking 2016.
posted by Mchelly at 12:48 PM on November 17, 2016 [4 favorites]

Everything Trump does is based on the model of an abusive spouse or parent. His less-horrific overtures are part of that model.

It's easy to think that dragging in Romney so he can humiliate him by rejecting him publicly fits this model perfectly.
posted by zachlipton at 12:48 PM on November 17, 2016 [28 favorites]

Oh my god please Mittens, I would forgive you so much (not everything, but quite a lot) if you could please take one for the team and prevent global thermonuclear war this one time. I'd consider it a real solid for my kid.
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:48 PM on November 17, 2016 [27 favorites]

Everything Trump does is based on the model of an abusive spouse or parent. His less-horrific overtures are part of that model.

This. Also the reports of his management style in general, he sets up competing factions within his empire squabbling over his blessing, which he loves to bestow on the flavor of the moment without much if any regard for the implications or details. The cabinet will be the same way, a mix of some relatively sane picks, pure Trump loyalists, and Bannon/Alt-righters. So a Mitt Romney at State will be followed by Flynn at Defense or CIA.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:50 PM on November 17, 2016 [2 favorites]

Flynn is National Security Advisor
posted by Jalliah at 12:53 PM on November 17, 2016

"Guys, if Romney can kiss his ass and sweet talk him into picking a competent cabinet (not even necessarily one I agree with, just one that at least understands wtf they're doing), I'm all for it."

"...would forgive you so much (not everything, but quite a lot) if you could please take one for the team and prevent global thermonuclear war this one time. "

Not to pick on you two in particular, but isn't Romney acquiescence the epitome of normalizing the Trump administration? I think this is pretty much the worst thing ever.
posted by klarck at 12:53 PM on November 17, 2016 [1 favorite]

The idea of Romney as Secretary of State is amazing because if it happens, it's basically the Republican version of Obama picking Clinton. It's the establishment winning another round.
posted by feloniousmonk at 12:54 PM on November 17, 2016 [4 favorites]

I'd let Mitt spirit-baptize my dead relatives all he wants if it keeps our country from dissolving.
posted by emjaybee at 12:54 PM on November 17, 2016 [7 favorites]

Also, I am an Old, and I have been through a lot of elections, both ones where I was happy and ones where I was unhappy, and I literally cannot remember a single time where I cared who would be appointed to be Secretary of State (other than occasionally thinking Him? after the announcement). This just doesn't happen - based on the names I've seen so far, Trump literally doesn't seem to understand what the SoS does.
posted by Mchelly at 12:55 PM on November 17, 2016 [18 favorites]

I actually watched Mitt (the documentary) last week. Not sure why. Insomnia + masochism, probably. I actually came away with more respect for the guy. He never clicked for me, as even a credible candidate against Obama, but certainly a bit more human-ness came through. And to be saying that, instead of a footnote in history, Mitt Fucking Romney coming out of nowhere in all this is a gasp of air for the drowning is just... so fucking 2016.
posted by rp at 12:56 PM on November 17, 2016 [2 favorites]

I'd almost rather see Romney put in charge of replacing ACA, tbh. But he should be a good counterbalance to Bannon/Flynn at State.
posted by Golden Eternity at 12:57 PM on November 17, 2016 [1 favorite]

Not to pick on you two in particular, but isn't Romney acquiescence the epitome of normalizing the Trump administration? I think this is pretty much the worst thing ever.

Well, I don't want Trump to be normalized but I also like not dying.
posted by dinty_moore at 12:58 PM on November 17, 2016 [30 favorites]

Not to pick on you two in particular, but isn't Romney acquiescence the epitome of normalizing the Trump administration? I think this is pretty much the worst thing ever.

Normalization is bad, but also having a non-fascist, non-trigger-happy person who actually knows something about the world heading up the State Department is pretty damn crucial.

Our chief diplomat really, really needs to not be a crazy fucking fascist. I think Romney knows that and he is taking a big bullet for Team We Don't Want To Die here.
posted by tivalasvegas at 12:58 PM on November 17, 2016 [16 favorites]

I actually watched Mitt (the documentary) last week. Not sure why. Insomnia + masochism, probably. I actually came away with more respect for the guy. He never clicked for me, as even a credible candidate against Obama, but certainly a bit more human-ness came through. And to be saying that, instead of a footnote in history, Mitt Fucking Romney coming out of nowhere in all this is a gasp of air for the drowning is just... so fucking 2016

I think it's a really good documentary, honestly. It doesn't mean I have to reconsider if he would be a good President. I'm fine with him for Secretary of State.
posted by zutalors! at 12:59 PM on November 17, 2016 [1 favorite]

I've felt like a broken Dalek since this election (EXPLAIN!? EXPLAIN!?). Could someone EXPLAIN why Pelosi is in trouble? Am I mistaken in thinking she's, like, good at her job?
posted by haapsane at 1:00 PM on November 17, 2016 [4 favorites]

Not to pick on you two in particular, but isn't Romney acquiescence the epitome of normalizing the Trump administration?

Romney is normal. To paraphrase P.J. O'Rourke's endorsement of Clinton, "He's wrong, but he's wrong within normal parameters." I see the dangerous "normalizing" as saying that Steve Bannon is basically just Karl Rove. If Jeb had won and picked Romney as SecState, we'd just shrug and say, "Ugh, whatever."
posted by Etrigan at 1:01 PM on November 17, 2016 [20 favorites]

There's been, what, 4, 5 names floated for SoS so far? Romney's the latest, but everyone was reporting Nikki Haley this morning. Multiple other names yesterday. I wouldn't hold my breath on any of them. Trump is just doing what Trump does. Grabbing headlines, messing with people. We won't know a real name for a couple weeks.
posted by Roommate at 1:01 PM on November 17, 2016 [11 favorites]

You guys I had a dream last night that, at some point in the past, Trump had invited a bunch of people to his hotel for some sort of conference and then refused to let them leave the hotel, and everyone just ate whatever scraps the staff brought them and got dirtier and shabbier because they were too afraid of Trump to walk out, for weeks and weeks. And everyone thought it was funny when the traumatized people finally got up the courage to escape, and tell the story, what a wacky thing he did! That crazy Trump, LOL.

Like I woke up believing this had actually happened.

2016 has broken my reality meter.
posted by emjaybee at 1:02 PM on November 17, 2016 [10 favorites]

Flynn is National Security Advisor

I don't think that's been announced, but the point was illustrative. He'll most like have a mix of whatever still counts as reasonable Republicans, people who's only qualification is membership in the Trump personality cult, and alt-righters hand picked by Bannon. Which ones are in which roles could be the difference between wars.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:03 PM on November 17, 2016

Could someone EXPLAIN why Pelosi is in trouble? Am I mistaken in thinking she's, like, good at her job?

She could lose her job as Minority Leader and somebody's head has got to roll. Might as well be the most powerful woman in the country.
posted by Talez at 1:03 PM on November 17, 2016 [9 favorites]

It doesn't mean I have to reconsider if he would be a good President. I'm fine with him for Secretary of State.
Exactly. If nothing else, I do believe that the dude has principles. Not all principles I'd agree with, but practically angelic by comparison to the rest of the lot.
posted by rp at 1:04 PM on November 17, 2016 [4 favorites]

If Trump wants to "normalize" his administration by picking boring establishment Republicans instead of his shrieking lickspittles, I'm all for it.
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:05 PM on November 17, 2016 [10 favorites]

She could lose her job as Minority Leader and somebody's head has got to roll. Might as well be the most powerful woman in the country.

"What's America 2.0 look like?" –Tim Ryan

OLD WHITE GUYS I GUESS
posted by entropicamericana at 1:06 PM on November 17, 2016 [1 favorite]

This is exactly like torture, in the sense that no pattern is allowed to establish and you can never predict what will happen. I may have to nope out of the "who will Trump pick" conversation/this thread, not like I have much input on it and it's more than I can handle.
posted by emjaybee at 1:08 PM on November 17, 2016 [3 favorites]

Could someone EXPLAIN why Pelosi is in trouble? Am I mistaken in thinking she's, like, good at her job?

A woman didn't win the presidency, proving women can't lead, therefore all other women should be purged from leadership positions.
posted by melissasaurus at 1:09 PM on November 17, 2016 [15 favorites]

I'd almost rather see Romney put in charge of replacing ACA, tbh.

They'll never put Romney in charge of replacing the ACA, except in the unlikely event that they decide to keep it and rebrand it. When Romney was governor of MA, he masterminded a healthcare policy that was pretty much identical to the ACA. Obamacare is Romneycare.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 1:09 PM on November 17, 2016 [5 favorites]

boy this Trump character is just the gift that keeps on giving.
also, in German 'gift' means poison.

But I'll take Romney as Sec. of State any day, hell, I'll take him as President.. sorry, broke down crying hysterically there.

the depths of this 'dilemma' are frightening in a way that I imagine a slice of Gov workers are starting to realize, though they've not yet fully made clear.

I'm still holding out for damning conflicts of interest and EC madness. Because it'd be easier to take than the opposite.
posted by From Bklyn at 1:09 PM on November 17, 2016 [2 favorites]

Normalization is bad, but also having a non-fascist, non-trigger-happy person who actually knows something about the world heading up the State Department is pretty damn crucial.

Our chief diplomat really, really needs to not be a crazy fucking fascist. I think Romney knows that and he is taking a big bullet for Team We Don't Want To Die here.

Yeah, as I noted above, I've been thinking about this a lot, and what I keep coming back to is that as all the sane republicans run far far far away from this flaming pile of horseshit, Trump's options for non-insane people to pick become more and more limited and thus we end up with this amazing group of neo-fascist assholes.

I strongly wonder if the move for the #neverTrumpers at this point is to flock to the administration and try to effectively be the change from within.

This would still be bad, I would grant you -- bad for women's health care, bad for trans* issues, bad for the economy, bad on any number of levels -- but even Bush area bad seems better at this point than, say, rounding up Muslim immigrants or starting a hot war, or even simply letting the government cease to function because nobody in charge knows what the fuck they are doing.
posted by anastasiav at 1:10 PM on November 17, 2016 [5 favorites]

Could someone EXPLAIN why Pelosi is in trouble? Am I mistaken in thinking she's, like, good at her job?

It's not like the Democrats have improved their numbers in the House.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:10 PM on November 17, 2016 [1 favorite]

@jonfavs: Just think of what you could do with the hours you get back by avoiding all takes on potential nominees until they're named.
posted by DynamiteToast at 1:11 PM on November 17, 2016 [8 favorites]

They're coming in thick and fast...

GuardianUS: David Petraeus in the running to be Trump's secretary of state
posted by PenDevil at 1:12 PM on November 17, 2016

You guys I had a dream last night that, at some point in the past, Trump had invited a bunch of people to his hotel for some sort of conference and then refused to let them leave the hotel, and everyone just ate whatever scraps the staff brought them and got dirtier and shabbier because they were too afraid of Trump to walk out, for weeks and weeks. And everyone thought it was funny when the traumatized people finally got up the courage to escape, and tell the story, what a wacky thing he did! That crazy Trump, LOL.

I have a feeling the next four+ years might be just like The Exterminating Angel
posted by mochapickle at 1:12 PM on November 17, 2016 [2 favorites]

Could someone EXPLAIN why Pelosi is in trouble?

Democratic seat gains in the House were substantially under expectations.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 1:12 PM on November 17, 2016 [3 favorites]

@bluestein
Well that was fast. Georgia lawmaker withdraws bill that could have banned women in burkas from driving on public roads. #gapol

"decided not to pursue ... due to the visceral reaction it has created."

Good job speaking up, folks.
posted by goHermGO at 1:12 PM on November 17, 2016 [44 favorites]

@Gil_Hoffman: Exclusive: Heard from good source who spoke 2 multiple people on Trump transition team that next US ambassador 2 Israel = @GovMikeHuckabee.

Lol, awesome.
posted by Golden Eternity at 1:14 PM on November 17, 2016 [2 favorites]

Bill being planned to restrict how Muslim women dress in Georgia.

Update: Georgia state Rep. Jason Spencer to withdraw controversial "burqa bill."

It's almost like generating a massive amount of outrage and pressure causes people to back away from horrible ideas.
posted by zachlipton at 1:16 PM on November 17, 2016 [29 favorites]

on the bright side, this is going to be a great object lesson in what selecting the president by random lot would be like

I vote for random lot. Let's expand it beyond humans! My kid and I had a discussion this morning about who would make a better president: Trump or a moldy cabbage?

Moldy cabbage:

* would not repeal the ACA
* has no tax records to reveal
* no business conflicts of interest
* would also forgo the President's salary
* would not remove Michelle's garden; would probably hang out there
* fewer missteps with foreign leaders
* stays cool in a crisis
posted by freecellwizard at 1:20 PM on November 17, 2016 [17 favorites]

Arizona's Ruben Gallego (D, AZ 7th Rep) has a barnburner of an anti-Trump speech.
That's my congressman, and he fucking rocks.
posted by Superplin at 1:21 PM on November 17, 2016 [8 favorites]

Newt Gingrich says he will not be in Trump Cabinet
posted by chris24 at 1:22 PM on November 17, 2016 [8 favorites]

Could someone EXPLAIN why Pelosi is in trouble? Am I mistaken in thinking she's, like, good at her job?

She's been the Republicans' best fundraiser for a decade. If the Democrats replace her, then the Koch Brothers at least have to lay out a few bucks to update the flyers with the new guy's face.
posted by Etrigan at 1:22 PM on November 17, 2016 [3 favorites]

Why is State getting all of these names flung around and there's been no mention of Defense, where it's probably even more important to have a stable, competent hand? State is important, but they're not the first call when bullets or missiles start flying, and they're not even in the room for the black site and drone stuff.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:22 PM on November 17, 2016

And makes inroads with North Korea? Cuz kimchi? No?
posted by ian1977 at 1:22 PM on November 17, 2016

Right now, he's making Romney and Giuliani complete Apprentice-style challenges up in the Tower.

so many bugs met their doom today
posted by indubitable at 1:23 PM on November 17, 2016 [3 favorites]

Why is State getting all of these names flung around and there's been no mention of Defense, where it's probably more important to have a stable, competent hand?

The Dilettante-in-Chief doesn't want to share his secret plan to defeat ISIS with anyone.
posted by Etrigan at 1:24 PM on November 17, 2016 [4 favorites]

Newt Gingrich says he will not be in Trump Cabinet

I'll take my good news where I can get it. I hope the next headline is "Gingrich Has Slow Acting, non-Fatal Ball Cancer That Will Make It Feel Like He's Being Punched In The Balls By God Forever."
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:24 PM on November 17, 2016 [27 favorites]

There's been, what, 4, 5 names floated for SoS so far? Romney's the latest, but everyone was reporting Nikki Haley this morning. Multiple other names yesterday. I wouldn't hold my breath on any of them. Trump is just doing what Trump does. Grabbing headlines, messing with people. We won't know a real name for a couple weeks.

We are like the kittens and the SoS position is like the laser pointer and Trump is making us bat at shadows. So far the names offered have been:
Newt Gingrich
John Bolton
Bob Corker
Nikki Haley
Rudolph Guiliani
Mitt Romney

What do these names have in common? Nothing except that they are Republicans. A couple are supreme loyalists, Rommney is a NeverTrumper, and Haley falls in between. He could pick one of them or none of them. All of this is at his whim and makes no sense, nor does he care. I seriously doubt he is interested in past experience or in ideas so it may end up Kushner's choice or the imput of the last person who talks to Trump.

I do want to point out that SoS Hillary Clinton traveled to more countries than any other SoS and she was 61. Gingrich is 73 and Guiliani is 74.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:26 PM on November 17, 2016 [9 favorites]

@Gil_Hoffman: Exclusive: Heard from good source who spoke 2 multiple people on Trump transition team that next US ambassador 2 Israel = @GovMikeHuckabee.

Oh god, I already felt bad enough for my friend who picked up and moved to Tel Aviv with his husband to work at the US embassy.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 1:27 PM on November 17, 2016 [1 favorite]

moldy cabbage / rancid trout 2020
posted by murphy slaw at 1:31 PM on November 17, 2016 [8 favorites]

Exclusive: Heard from good source who spoke 2 multiple people on Trump transition team that next US ambassador 2 Israel = @GovMikeHuckabee.

JFC. But of course it would be a White Evangelic Christian Hot for the Nation of Israel as a signifier for the coming of the End Times but did it have to be such a dumb WECHftNoI?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:34 PM on November 17, 2016 [8 favorites]

Hey guys, I had this weird dream. A guy was running for president and he went on TV and asked Russia to intervene in the election. And then they did! And the FBI found out about it, but blew it off. All the intelligence agencies said that Russia had hacked the Democrats to influence the election, but the guy running for president said Russia didn't do it. And then he won! And everyone forgot all about the Russians influencing our election.

Crazy dream, huh?
posted by kirkaracha at 1:36 PM on November 17, 2016 [19 favorites]

Welp. There goes any hope of not using US foreign policy to advance red heifer end times theology narratives.
posted by zachlipton at 1:36 PM on November 17, 2016 [4 favorites]

> moldy cabbage / rancid trout 2020
posted by murphy slaw at 1:31 PM on November 17 [2 favorites −] Favorite added! [!]

eponysterical

Also, today my brain generated the thought "Oh good Romney, he's a grownup," and then literal smoke began to seep from my nose and I floated away into a cloud of smoke because my entire being could not even
posted by Tevin at 1:37 PM on November 17, 2016 [16 favorites]

Even now, even after all that's happened, I still thought the Huckabee thing was a joke.
posted by sunset in snow country at 1:38 PM on November 17, 2016 [4 favorites]

We are like the kittens and the SoS position is like the laser pointer and Trump is making us bat at shadows.

That is basically his communication strategy. Make everyone as confused and emotional as possible. Then do something relatively less evil. Shellshocked by the whirlwind of bullshit, everyone accepts the evil thing just to calm down for a moment. Repeat as much as possible.
posted by Glibpaxman at 1:40 PM on November 17, 2016 [12 favorites]

The Story of the 2016 Elections is That Republican Voters Voted Republican

Clinton got her base out, and generally held her own among most demographics, despite lacking Obama’s level of political skill and lacking Obama’s advantage of being an incumbent president. So what put Trump over the top?

Trump did very well in rural Florida, but so did Romney. If you take all the counties with less than 250,000 residents, he increased Romney’s vote share by 125,000 votes — enough to make up the Obama 2012 margin — except, Clinton increased Obama’s margin in the counties with more than 750,000 residents by over 100,000 votes. In other words, rural and suburban cancel each other out. What doesn’t cancel out — midsize suburban/exurban counties, places with 250,000-750,000 residents — Trump won them by 200,000 more votes than Romney. [...]

One thing the Clinton campaign got wrong — and I’m not saying it was unreasonable to think this, because I, like most people, thought the same thing — is its assumption that enough suburban Republicans and Republican-leaners would find Trump distasteful enough to put Clinton in the White House. This just didn’t happen. [...]

Another key point: “2016 marked the 4th straight statewide election (two Governors, two Presidentials), where the victor’s margin of victory was roughly a point.” It was reasonable, in other words, for Clinton to contest Florida hard — she lost by barely more than 100,000 votes — and arguments about bad resource allocation just aren’t going to get you anywhere unless you can draw up a map of Clinton winning that doesn’t include Pennsylvania.

The biggest mistake Obama made for the 2016 elections was putting James Comey in charge of the FBI. But given that the Orlando and Tampa suburbs and exurbs won Florida for Trump, I wonder if Obama’s failure to provide substantial relief for people with foreclosed houses and failure to punish the malefactors had an important effect.

posted by tonycpsu at 1:41 PM on November 17, 2016 [15 favorites]

You guys I had a dream last night that, at some point in the past, Trump had invited a bunch of people to his hotel for some sort of conference and then refused to let them leave the hotel, and everyone just ate whatever scraps the staff brought them and got dirtier and shabbier because they were too afraid of Trump to walk out, for weeks and weeks. And everyone thought it was funny when the traumatized people finally got up the courage to escape, and tell the story, what a wacky thing he did! That crazy Trump, LOL.

Like I woke up believing this had actually happened.

2016 has broken my reality meter.

Well something like it has happened, per this anecdote of Solzhenitsyn's from The Gulag Archipelago:

A district Party conference was under way in Moscow Province. It was presided over by a new secretary of the District Party Committee, replacing one recently arrested. At the conclusion of the conference, a tribute to Comrade Stalin was called for. Of course, everyone stood up (just as everyone had leaped to his feet during the conference at every mention of his name). The small hall echoed with “stormy applause, rising to an ovation.” For three minutes, four minutes, five minutes, the “stormy applause, rising to an ovation” continued. But palms were getting sore and raised arms were already aching. And the older people were panting from exhaustion. It was becoming insufferably silly even to those who really adored Stalin. However, who would dare be the first to stop? The secretary of the District Party Committee could have done it. He was standing on the platform, and it was he who had just called for the ovation. But he was a newcomer. He had taken the place of a man who’d been arrested. He was afraid! After all, NKVD men were standing in the hall applauding and watching to see who quit first! And in that obscure, small hall, unknown to the Leader, the applause went on—six, seven, eight minutes! They were done for! Their goose was cooked! They couldn’t stop now till they collapsed with heart attacks! At the rear of the hall, which was crowded, they could of course cheat a bit, clap less frequently, less vigorously, not so eagerly—but up there with the presidium where everyone could see them? The director of the local paper factory, an independent and strong-minded man, stood with the presidium. Aware of all the falsity and all the impossibility of the situation, he still kept on applauding! Nine minutes! Ten! In anguish he watched the secretary of the District Party Committee, but the latter dared not stop. Insanity! To the last man! With make-believe enthusiasm on their faces, looking at each other with faint hope, the district leaders were just going to go on and on applauding till they fell where they stood, till they were carried out of the hall on stretchers! And even then those who were left would not falter. . . . Then after eleven minutes, the director of the paper factory assumed a businesslike expression and sat down in his seat. And, oh, a miracle took place! Where had the universal, uninhibited, indescribable enthusiasm gone? To a man, everyone else stopped dead and sat down. They had been saved! The squirrel had been smart enough to jump off his revolving wheel.

That, however, was how they discovered who the independent people were. And that was how they went about eliminating them. That same night the factory director was arrested. They easily pasted ten years on him on the pretext of something quite different. But after he had signed Form 206, the final document of the interrogation, his interrogator reminded him: “Don’t ever be the first to stop applauding!”

posted by winna at 1:42 PM on November 17, 2016 [9 favorites]

Nasty little story played out on twitter today. California Assemblywoman, Melissa Melendez tweeted out a story with video saying a homeless vet was beaten to death by anti-Trump protestors in Philidelphia. The story was fake, the video from 2015. When called out on it she responded

I had a bet with my husband that liberal reporters would flip out over a news story I shared. I won $20 thanks libs :) MM

What she is doing in politics, I don't know.

#Trump'sAmerica
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:42 PM on November 17, 2016 [18 favorites]

Short video from Ijeoma Oluo re the suggestion that Trump won because we "pushed too hard" for social justice. [FB video, but you don't need to be logged in to view it]
posted by melissasaurus at 1:42 PM on November 17, 2016 [2 favorites]

They could have done better. Not only did their internal polling end up sucking just as much as the public polling did, they also apparently did not pay attention to the folks on the ground until the very final days, when it was already too late.

But as you say, the polls ("all of them") that that should have guided her campaign were absolutely wrong. She shouldn't have disregarded them, and if she had, what would she have had to go on? Every campaign director thinks they need more resources and they're probably right.

Trump's election has overturned the settled wisdom about elections. Literally everybody thought a large, well-organised campaign would defeat one that was basically non-existent. That's what the Republicans thought, too: they were fighting over their reponsibility for failure on the actual day of the election.

My theory is that Clinton lost because the electorate has been primed to see politics as entertainment. You have round after round, the most entertaining people move forward while the others are kicked off the island, but whatever happens the process continues to a safe and entertaining conclusion. And that is literally what happened with the Republican nomination. So you had Trump (who was, remember, the compère of an actual reality show) stage-managing the Republican nomination process with surprises and cliffhangers while the boring candidates get kicked off the metaphorical island. And then he faces a surprise challenger whose nomination process was nothing like as entertaining and was, her enemies said darkly, rigged. And you, the viewers, get to choose America's Idol Millionaire Big Brother.

Well, who do you think they'd choose?
posted by Joe in Australia at 1:44 PM on November 17, 2016 [12 favorites]

Welp. There goes any hope of not using US foreign policy to advance red heifer end times theology narratives.



On the playgrounds of Israel, the equivalent of "what? Chickenbutt!" is "Ma? Para Aduma!"

Meaning "red heifer." Enough people on all sides in Israel just want to live. There will be no red heifer shenanigans even if they appeal to Huckabee.
posted by ocschwar at 1:44 PM on November 17, 2016 [1 favorite]

What she is doing in politics, I don't know.

she's a republican assemblyperson in california, she's basically just wasting space and air.
posted by entropicamericana at 1:47 PM on November 17, 2016 [5 favorites]

So you had Trump (who was, remember, the compère of an actual reality show) stage-managing the Republican nomination process with surprises and cliffhangers while the boring candidates get kicked off the metaphorical island.

Hah. And Governor Christie is the stooge who gets "thrown under the bus."

Repeatedly.

Actually, it's the Enlightenment and it's a train.
posted by notyou at 1:51 PM on November 17, 2016

Californians might want to contact their state legislators and lodge an ethics complaint about that tweet. Can't hurt?
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 1:51 PM on November 17, 2016 [1 favorite]

Trump’s coalition won the demographic battle. It’ll still lose the war.

Here’s what all this means concretely, applied just one election ahead. If we assume that the support patterns from 2016, with their astronomically high white-working class support rates for Trump and relatively weak minority support rates for the Democratic candidate, hold in 2020, projected demographic shifts in the electorate would still, by themselves, produce a very different outcome.

The Democrats’ advantage in the national popular vote would bump up from a little more than 1 point to 3 points. Critically, this change would flip the Rust Belt trio of Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin — plus Florida — back to the Democrats, producing a 303-235 victory for the Democratic candidate, even with the white working-class surge toward Trump replicated in 2020. In addition, Arizona, Georgia, and North Carolina, already very competitive in the 2016 election, would become even more contestable under this scenario.

And this is just one election ahead. Naturally, the effects of demographic change will be magnified the further away we get from 2016. [...]

This suggests that the rampant fear among Democrats that Trump and his Breitbart strategy are throwing up a permanent barrier to left advance — perhaps even threatening democracy itself — is overblown. He and his movement are clearly riding on demographic borrowed time. His greatest strength comes from the votes of less educated aging whites, who are declining. This is not to say that Trump’s populism will not continue to be a problem for some time, but rather that over the medium to long term, his movement has intrinsically limited growth potential.

posted by tonycpsu at 1:51 PM on November 17, 2016 [10 favorites]

OK this might be too personal, and I'm fine with the mods deleting, but:

My old construction prof called me out publicly on FB., he accused me of suffering of "Trump Acceptance Resistance Disorder". Don't google this, I didn't but I accidentally pushed a button and it was disgusting.

First, I replied he was an old troll. Then I made a more detailed reply about Trump being a Manchurian candidate and ignorant to boot.

Then I got really angry and wrote about how I would never want my daughters experience groping. And that there was no excuse for his point of view. Ending with the note that respectful men get more and better sex.

At the end, he apologized.

Thing is, I think he is the reason I get Bernie-bros and other leftists turned right on my feed. He is really on the crazy conspiracy spectrum and also a rabid anti-semite. The good thing is, shaming him worked. So this is my message here:
don't hesitate to call out those people, and don't hesitate to be direct about it. It might not change their votes but it may well change their activism.
posted by mumimor at 1:53 PM on November 17, 2016 [20 favorites]

but wait

Mitt Romney - Sec of State
John McCain - Sec of Defense
Bob Dole - Sec of the Treasury
Former GOP Presidential Candidates Combined - Sec of OUR HEARTS, MINDS, AND SOULS
posted by Tevin at 1:56 PM on November 17, 2016 [4 favorites]

This suggests that the rampant fear among Democrats that Trump and his Breitbart strategy are throwing up a permanent barrier to left advance — perhaps even threatening democracy itself — is overblown. He and his movement are clearly riding on demographic borrowed time.

Voter ID
Closing polling places
Voter intimidation
Elimination of early voting
Foot-dragging on citizenship applications
Control of the FBI/CIA/NSA

The demographics of the country are basically meaningless if the demographics of the electorate stay white and Republican.
posted by melissasaurus at 1:56 PM on November 17, 2016 [53 favorites]

But as you say, the polls ("all of them") that that should have guided her campaign were absolutely wrong.

As I understand it, the most subjective thing pollsters have to do is decide who is a likely voter. I wonder if it is possible that they assumed Hillary would have a better GOTV organization based on Obama's performance, and the fact that it actually wasn't going well in Michigan was part of the reason for the error there. It also appears that Hillary's campaign may have been hiding the fact that their GOTV operation wasn't as good as everyone thought, perhaps for good reason?

As I recall Dems seemed to be doing quite well in early voting and this was part of the reason for so much optimism on election night, but perhaps there was a large pool of late voters that their GOTV operation didn't reach as well as Obama did.
posted by Golden Eternity at 1:56 PM on November 17, 2016 [1 favorite]

Maybe Clinton lost Michigan because there are a lot of white people in Michigan who voted for white supremacy.
posted by melissasaurus at 2:01 PM on November 17, 2016 [33 favorites]

It is interesting to me that we're still trying to post-mortem the election using some of the same data-collection methods that were misleading going into the election.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 2:07 PM on November 17, 2016 [14 favorites]

Anything. Doesn't matter. It's easier than accepting it.
posted by Too-Ticky at 2:09 PM on November 17, 2016

Tonycpsu: He and his movement are clearly riding on demographic borrowed time.

I hope this is the case, but I'm worried about increases in voter suppression aided by Republican-stacked judiciaries. Geographic gerrymandering is very accepted in the USA, and arguably even mandatory in some cases. What the Republicans were doing was demographic gerrymandering, and now they'll be emboldened because they've seen how well it can work.
posted by Joe in Australia at 2:11 PM on November 17, 2016 [6 favorites]

More about my old prof attacking me: I went through my FB activities, and it (unsurprisingly) turned out that I seriously never promote my feminist opinions, because I mainly use my FB for professional stuff and avoid controversial issues. So my former profs judgements were based on me posting factual stuff about Trump voters or Trump policies from their own statements. So he was imagining gendered policies from my side alone on the basis of me posting facts from the Trump campaign.
I know we've all given up on the evens,but yeah
posted by mumimor at 2:11 PM on November 17, 2016 [7 favorites]

We are like the kittens and the SoS position is like the laser pointer and Trump is making us bat at shadows. So far the names offered have been:
Newt Gingrich
John Bolton
Bob Corker
Nikki Haley
Rudolph Guiliani
Mitt Romney

I want them to have some kind of mock gladiatorial battle to get the job. That would be in keeping with the spirit of Trump's campaign so far. Or, since the stakes are life and death for a lot of Americans, maybe not a mock battle.
posted by puddledork at 2:12 PM on November 17, 2016 [1 favorite]

87,810: Number of voters in Michigan who cast a ballot but did not cast a vote for president. Trump won by 13,107 votes.

65% of Michiganders voted.
posted by cell divide at 2:14 PM on November 17, 2016 [19 favorites]

The demographics of the country are basically meaningless if the demographics of the electorate stay white and Republican.

Of course, but the demographic trends place an increasing burden on the GOP's anti-democratic schemes, and at some point some or all of those schemes will hit diminishing returns. We can't sit back and wait for the "unwhitening" to save us, but it's still the case that the GOP is playing a very dangerous game, and that their continued refusal to broaden their appeal has a high chance of snapping back at them in the form of a very long time in the wilderness where they struggle to rebrand themselves. "Oh, yeah, we used to be the white nationalist party, but now we're totes cool with minorities." By hiding from the demographics on the strength of disenfranchisement and the electoral college (but I repeat myself), they keep themselves from learning lessons that they're going to have to learn eventually. At some point, the demographic problem will be too big to cheat their way out of.
posted by tonycpsu at 2:17 PM on November 17, 2016 [6 favorites]

mumimor, I had a similar experience with a client who emailed me jubiliant over Trump winning. I debated what to do because I can't really afford to lose the work, but emailed her back that I wasn't happy over the election results as I was going to lose my health insurance subsidy and by the way, my rates are going up next month to pay for it. She has agreed to the pay increase and has not emailed me anything political since.

I honestly think the hearts and minds battle of those that can be won is going to be a matter of people pointing out over and over why a Trump administration is a nightmare.
posted by not that mimi at 2:18 PM on November 17, 2016 [25 favorites]

I can just see Kellyanne Conway now "well Anderson when Mr Trump said he wanted to drain the swamp he actually meant money not corruption. Never once did Mr Trump say corruption only that he wanted to drain the swamp".
posted by Talez at 2:19 PM on November 17, 2016

I know we've all given up on the evens,but yeah

muminmor, I'm still getting over the fact that a BernieBro blocked me for "race baiting" when I posted a USA today article about the hate crimes and asked him what caused he thought caused the post-Brexit violence and that was about 30 evens ago, so I am with you.
posted by dinty_moore at 2:20 PM on November 17, 2016 [5 favorites]

@CNBCNow : JUST IN: Newt Gingrich tells @NBCNews that he will not hold a position in Donald Trump's cabinet.
posted by DynamiteToast at 2:20 PM on November 17, 2016 [2 favorites]

I want them to have some kind of mock gladiatorial battle to get the job. That would be in keeping with the spirit of Trump's campaign so far. Or, since the stakes are life and death for a lot of Americans, maybe not a mock battle.

Combat is perfectly appropriate for SecDef, but the challenge for Secretary of State should be an Amazing Race type of deal, which would help eliminate Giuliani since at some point he'd by stopped by his inability to cross running water
posted by prize bull octorok at 2:20 PM on November 17, 2016 [14 favorites]

So... he wants to drain all the money in the swamp into his own pockets? I would believe that.
posted by suelac at 2:21 PM on November 17, 2016 [3 favorites]

Trump 2016 - Walls for Some, Swamps for All
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:28 PM on November 17, 2016 [4 favorites]

The only tangible role of the Presidency that Trump ever sounded genuinely excited about was flying around to do Straight Talk at foreign leaders and Make Tremendous Deals with them. That's his whole thing! So of course all the SoS names floating around are nonsense, because he has no intention of letting them crowd in on the only part of the job he's looking forward to.
posted by theodolite at 2:31 PM on November 17, 2016 [1 favorite]

The only tangible role of the Presidency that Trump ever sounded genuinely excited about was flying around to do Straight Talk at foreign leaders and Make Tremendous Deals with them. That's his whole thing!

Maybe we need to switch to a parliamentary system so that the office of the president is basically a figurehead for symbolic value. Then we can safely populate it with powerless celebrities who crave the prestige. otoh, I don't want PM Ryan.
posted by Apocryphon at 2:35 PM on November 17, 2016 [2 favorites]

Maybe he'll just keep on holding rallies instead?

I can't believe that is the less terrifying thought.
posted by dinty_moore at 2:36 PM on November 17, 2016 [2 favorites]

petraeus and flynn have both acknowledged substantial security violations. flynn bragged about sharing NOFORN with the pakistanis. petraeus - christ - LOVINT for his affair with that biographer.

c'mon MSM! let's have another outrage party like with the totally-unserious-nuthin-happened-email-sitch.
posted by j_curiouser at 2:36 PM on November 17, 2016 [8 favorites]

Maybe Clinton lost Michigan because there are a lot of white people in Michigan who voted for white supremacy.

Whole lotta those "white supremacists" voted for Obama in previous elections, does that fit your explanation?
posted by indubitable at 2:38 PM on November 17, 2016

Maybe Clinton lost Michigan because there are a lot of white people in Michigan who voted for white supremacy.

Whole lotta those "white supremacists" voted for Obama in previous elections, does that fit your explanation?

Yes. White supremacy is more threatened by white people speaking out against it than by POC speaking out.
posted by melissasaurus at 2:41 PM on November 17, 2016 [19 favorites]

And I didn't say everyone was a white supremacist. I said they voted for white supremacy, which, like slavery, is an economic system as well as a system of violence and oppression.
posted by melissasaurus at 2:42 PM on November 17, 2016 [14 favorites]

Maybe we need to switch to a parliamentary system so that the office of the president is basically a figurehead for symbolic value. Then we can safely populate it with powerless celebrities who crave the prestige. otoh, I don't want PM Ryan.

So the thoughts that just passed through my head, in quick succession:

1. I could dig up years worth of my comments on this site saying roughly the same thing (that the roles of head of state and head of government should be kept well separated).
2. I could instead get back to work.
3. Or find a hobby.
4. Or try to leave another message on Paul Ryan's voicemail about Bannon.

I think probably what I'm going to do is 4, then 2.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 2:45 PM on November 17, 2016 [3 favorites]

Whole lotta those "white supremacists" voted for Obama in previous elections, does that fit your explanation?

Or possibly, the portion of white Obama voters who stayed home this time (#NeverHillary people, Berners, etc) was replaced by misogynists/supremacists/Clinton-haters who stayed home last time.
posted by snuffleupagus at 2:46 PM on November 17, 2016 [4 favorites]

I think probably what I'm going to do is 4, then 2.

Can you explain just why do these parliamentary countries have an elected ceremonial head of state? Like, royal families, fine, I get it, they're a visible representation to your nation's history and tradition. But what kind of people even get chosen to be a symbolic head of state who doesn't govern? Celebrities? Retired politicians? Business magnates? Athletes?
posted by Apocryphon at 2:48 PM on November 17, 2016

Whole lotta those "white supremacists" voted for Obama in previous elections, does that fit your explanation?

Salon: Why Did Some White Obama Voters Go for Trump? Trump gave them a choice between multiracial democracy and white primacy.

NYT: The End of the Postracial Myth: Pundits are quick to say that it couldn’t be about prejudice in states like Iowa, where Obama voters went for Trump. But racial anxiety is always close to the surface — and can easily be stoked.

Racist people can vote for a black guy and still be racist. Especially when they voted for the black guy after the worst recession in history, a horrible war and 8 years of inept Republican rule. Oh, and the black guy was the best politician of his generation and the white guys were blah. Then, after said black guy was demonized and othered for 8 years, and their racial hatred stoked by someone playing on that racism, they voted for white primacy.
posted by chris24 at 2:53 PM on November 17, 2016 [17 favorites]

People can vote for both white supremacy and for economic anxiety, and a political party can work to fight both problems, especially since they are interlinked.
posted by Apocryphon at 2:56 PM on November 17, 2016 [1 favorite]

Can you explain just why do these parliamentary countries have an elected ceremonial head of state?

They're usually appointed, not elected.

A big part of the reason is that you want to separate the person who does official diplomatic stuff from the person who is the head of government. The head of state goes to boring dinners. The head of state bestows medals. Since the head of state has nothing to do with policy, they don't get asked awkward questions about human rights or trade when they've just received the ambassador from Brutalia.

Also, if there's a real crisis it means that there's someone to take over who has constitutional legitimacy. I.e., the Prime Minister shoots herself after it's revealed that she has faked the election results. Who is in charge of the country? Answer: the new Prime Minister, appointed by the Governor General/President/Queen on the understanding that new elections will be called.
posted by Joe in Australia at 2:56 PM on November 17, 2016 [4 favorites]

PenDevil: GuardianUS: David Petraeus in the running to be Trump's secretary of state

Trump must not know Petraeus is still under probation for pleading guilty to mishandling classified materials, a sweetheart deal he got which was knocked down from a felony for negligently giving the reporter with whom he was having a secret affair eight notebooks containing classified information. I know Trump's very strict about this kind of stuff, so we better get this info to him quick!
posted by bluecore at 2:57 PM on November 17, 2016 [11 favorites]

‘White Working Class’ Narrative Is Nothing but a Racist Dog Whistle by Kirsten West Savali for The Root

There are certainly white people who are in need of economic stability and security, but to put forth such a flat economic analysis that does not acknowledge white supremacy is racist to its core. By all means, let’s discuss this “white working class” that’s full of “rural resentment,” but if we’re going to tell it, we need to make it plain. [...]

Let’s take a closer look at the bellwether state of Pennsylvania.

Despite many “white working class” residents in Pennsylvania expressing their distaste for a black president, President Barack Obama managed to claw his way to victory there twice. In January, however, MSNBC’s Chris Matthews—who spent much of the 2016 election cycle lamenting the country’s failure of the “white working class”—predicted that there were “Reagan Democrats” just waiting to vote for Trump.

He was right. Trump turned three counties in the state—Luzerne, Erie and Northhampton—red.

But the industrial decline of the state, which some observers credit for the party shift, has been relatively consistent. So what could possibly have caused the political pendulum to swing?

A loud-mouthed bigot screaming about “Mexican rapists” and calling for “law and order.” [...]

And it’s not just xenophobic, anti-Latinx immigration sentiment. According to the Southern Poverty Law Center, in 2015, Pennsylvania had the fifth-highest number of hate groups in the United States. These groups are mostly white supremacist organizations, ranging from the Ku Klux Klan (nine) to neo-Nazis (three) to racist skinheads (six).

The state has two more KKK chapters than Mississippi; three of them are in Luzerne County. Still, the disingenuous narrative that racism is quarantined in the Deep South, and so-called white patriots in the Rust Belt just need a fair shake, persists. [...]

Yes, they are angry. But they aren’t angry because they’re poor; they’re angry because they are white and poor—and that’s not the American dream. And they will starve and they will waste away and they will die before acknowledging that the world owes them nothing simply because they were born into a world where whiteness is supposed to equal power. [...]

Any strategy that is empathetic toward racism—no matter how tattered and jobless and broke it may be—is one that is dangerous for black people in this country. And any politician or party that encourages black people to “seek common ground” with a poor man’s white supremacy while we’re swinging from the economic nooses around our necks is dangerous, too.

posted by melissasaurus at 2:57 PM on November 17, 2016 [38 favorites]

In sum: people are fickle beings who run on emotions and caffeine, make choices due to current moments and dont reflect on their past choices or actions that much.
posted by AlexiaSky at 2:57 PM on November 17, 2016 [1 favorite]

They're usually appointed, not elected.

Ah, so I assume they're appointed from the civil service or the legislature. No celebrity ceremonial presidents, then.
posted by Apocryphon at 2:58 PM on November 17, 2016

It also seemed like all of the popular negativity heaped on Hillary for 30+ years gave people a cover for voting their bigotry in a way that the glow around candidate Obama probably suppressed for all but the most unapologetic birthers.

As the election showed, chauvinism is now better tolerated in the public square than racism.
posted by snuffleupagus at 3:01 PM on November 17, 2016 [18 favorites]

> Can you explain just why do these parliamentary countries have an elected ceremonial head of state? Like, royal families, fine, I get it, they're a visible representation to your nation's history and tradition. But what kind of people even get chosen to be a symbolic head of state? Celebrities? Retired politicians? Business magnates? Athletes?

So I'm mostly familiar with how it works in the UK and in Commonwealth countries, and they don't have elected heads of state (which doesn't matter, because the head of state is just a figurehead). England has an unelected head of state for obvious reasons; Commonwealth countries have governors-general, nominally appointed by the Queen, but actually chosen by the Prime Minister of whichever country we're talking about.

But to answer the "who" question, they tend to be broadly respected public figures. The current Governor-General of Canada is a former university president who had moderated a number of leaders' debates over the years (I don't know much about him, cause I sort of stopped following Canadian politics during the bleak Harper years), the one before that was a very highly respected CBC journalist.

The only country with politics that I follow that's got an elected head of state separate from the head of government is Iceland. Their current President (who only holds ceremonial powers) was previously a professor in modern Icelandic history at the University of Iceland; the best-known Icelandic President was Vigdís Finnbogadóttir, a well-known women's rights and environmental activist.

Most places with ceremonial heads of state separate from the heads of government got there by totally contingent reasons. The answer to the "why" question is, as such, "the country in question is a constitutional monarchy or a colony/former colony of a constitutional monarchy."

Even though most places got there sort of by chance, I nevertheless think it's a fantastic idea. The head of state serves as a focus for any excess patriotic feelings among the country's population, thereby letting people be a bit more level-headed about the head of government.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 3:03 PM on November 17, 2016 [4 favorites]

Also, let's not overlook the possibility that misogyny could be more powerful than racism.
posted by chris24 at 3:03 PM on November 17, 2016 [8 favorites]

I'm already looking ahead to 2020. My candidate of choice for the Democrats is Mr. George Clooney. Favorite now so you can easily find this on November 6, 2019 (or just wait for my "I Told You So" tour).

I'm rooting for Kanye/Klobuchar, myself. Besides, maybe some of the Trumpeters will see KK and get confused and vote for them as well. South Carolina turns blue!
posted by TwoStride at 3:03 PM on November 17, 2016 [1 favorite]

Maybe Clinton lost Michigan because there are a lot of white people in Michigan who voted for white supremacy.

Well, yes. But this isn't even a state which was narrowly blue, like Ohio and Pennsylvania. Obama won Michigan in 2008 by sixteen points and Democrats haven't taken less than 51% of the presidential vote there since 1992. This year they got 47.3%.

Obama gained 2.87 million votes to McCain's 2.05 million in 2008, and he retained 2.56 million of them in 2012. This year, Clinton only got 2.29 million votes in MI (provisional numbers pending final confirmation from MI election officials). Trump ticked up to 2.27 million, but where the hell did that other five hundred thousand votes go?

That's not a rounding error, that's a catastrophe.

To put it another way: Clinton could have doubled the 517,000 votes she got in Wayne County (Detroit) and still not matched Obama's 2008 vote count.

I don't know what the hell happened there and I'm sure white supremacy is a huge part of the story, but... I just don't know. I can't put those numbers into any coherent narrative.
posted by tivalasvegas at 3:08 PM on November 17, 2016 [12 favorites]

Trump must not know Petraeus is still under probation for pleading guilty to mishandling classified materials

Maybe Obama will pardon both him and Clinton on the same day.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 3:11 PM on November 17, 2016

I'm already looking ahead to 2020. My candidate of choice for the Democrats is Mr. George Clooney

OK, listen up. It's not Geroge Clooney. It's not Warren Beatty. It's not Robert Redford. It's not Michael Douglas, or Kevin Kline.

IF WE DO THIS IT NEEDS TO BE TOM HANKS

Seriously, I dare any dead-eyed GOP harm-wagon to try to run for President against Medal of Freedom Winner and America's Best Dad/Son/Friend, Tom Hanks.
posted by snuffleupagus at 3:11 PM on November 17, 2016 [2 favorites]

Maybe there are multiple narratives in play, and trying to derive maximum answers from any single one of them is over-simplistic.
posted by Apocryphon at 3:12 PM on November 17, 2016 [8 favorites]

2020: David Pumpkins vs the bumpkins*

*I know it's not nice to call people bumpkins and it probably isn't helpful for the whole classism argument but really could you blame me for not resisting here?
posted by tivalasvegas at 3:15 PM on November 17, 2016 [4 favorites]

Well, if we're playing the Dream Candidate 2020 game, I'm 100% Team Jon Stewart
posted by Mchelly at 3:15 PM on November 17, 2016 [4 favorites]

My pet 2020 candidate is Jon Stewart.

On preview.. jinx!
posted by localhuman at 3:16 PM on November 17, 2016

> "That is basically his communication strategy. Make everyone as confused and emotional as possible. Then do something relatively less evil. Shellshocked by the whirlwind of bullshit, everyone accepts the evil thing just to calm down for a moment."

So ...

Um ...

When does the "do something relatively less evil" part start happening? Because he's made exactly three official picks so far, and one was the racist Breitbart News guy and another is an ultrareligious nutjob who supports "conversion therapy" programs for gays.
posted by kyrademon at 3:18 PM on November 17, 2016 [4 favorites]

I'm already looking ahead to 2020. My candidate of choice for the Democrats is Mr. George Clooney. Favorite now so you can easily find this on November 6, 2019.

Klobochar/Castro to beat Pence/Rubio, despite (another) four years of increased voter suppression mechanisms being introduced.

(or just wait for my "I Told You So" tour).

I've started my 2016 tour, and look forward to doing the 2020 one.
posted by Wordshore at 3:19 PM on November 17, 2016

Ah, so I assume they're appointed from the civil service or the legislature. No celebrity ceremonial presidents, then.

In Australia and New Zealand, they mostly seem to be notoriously-ineffective senior politicians, judges and other senior jurists, and generals. In Israel any citizen is eligible but for some reason it has always been a sitting politician (other than the very first head of state obviously.) In England, it's the Queen.

Actually, I once heard that if the Queen is visiting Australia she becomes our Head of State for the duration. Our Constitution only says that "executive power ... is vested in the Queen and is exercisable by the Governor-General as the Queen’s representative"
posted by Joe in Australia at 3:20 PM on November 17, 2016 [3 favorites]

I thought this was beautiful: Lose Your Kin: Refuse reconciliation to ongoing brutality. Refuse to feast on the corpse of others. Rend the fabric of the kinship narrative. Imagine otherwise. Remake the world. Some of us have never had any other choice.
posted by TwoStride at 3:21 PM on November 17, 2016 [2 favorites]

Well, if we're playing the Dream Candidate 2020 game, I'm 100% Team Jon Stewart

Jon Stewart today:

“I thought Donald Trump disqualified himself at numerous points. But there is now this idea that anyone who voted for him is -- has to be defined by the worst of his rhetoric,” Stewart said. “Like, there are guys in my neighborhood that I love, that I respect, that I think have incredible qualities who are not afraid of Mexicans, and not afraid of Muslims, and not afraid of blacks. They’re afraid of their insurance premiums. In the liberal community, you hate this idea of creating people as a monolith. Don’t look as Muslims as a monolith. They are the individuals and it would be ignorance. But everybody who voted for Trump is a monolith, is a racist. That hypocrisy is also real in our country.”

[link; warning autoplay]

Hard. Pass.
posted by melissasaurus at 3:22 PM on November 17, 2016 [35 favorites]

I personally believe that I failed to appreciate how effective 20+ years of anti-Hillary propaganda has been. Perhaps there is a slab of voters who could be persuaded to give Obama a chance, but who were already convinced that Clinton had "lied her way through her entire life" as I saw one voter quoted,, or whatever they focused on out of numerous slurs. All that preparatory work had been done for Trump before his first rally.

But I just don't know. I have little academic background in social science, and less in politics, and I just have no idea how to tell between stories that sound plausible to me and the real reasons, if those are even knowable.. How much was economics, class anxiety, sexism, racism? I don't know. A lot of people would vote for a sandwich over any woman, if it had silver-haired temples and talked like a Republican daddy. A bunch of people probably voted Trump because people like us hate that. So add spite into the list of motives.
posted by thelonius at 3:22 PM on November 17, 2016 [11 favorites]

The thing I can't imagine, I notice, is people who sincerely think Trump would be a better President. Can't. Even.
posted by thelonius at 3:23 PM on November 17, 2016 [4 favorites]

> "Trump will embark on a 'victory tour' of states he won"

... Wasn't he literally just arguing that the Trump University fraud case had to be delayed because he was just too gosh darned busy for it?
posted by kyrademon at 3:26 PM on November 17, 2016 [8 favorites]

Racist people can vote for a black guy and still be racist. Especially when they voted for the black guy after the worst recession in history, a horrible war and 8 years of inept Republican rule. Oh, and the black guy was the best politician of his generation and the white guys were blah. Then, after said black guy was demonized and othered for 8 years, and their racial hatred stoked by someone playing on that racism, they voted for white primacy.

The Michigan results, at least, don't show that though -- Trump got about 115,000 more votes than Romney did in '12. So we could posit those votes as Obama '08 -> Obama '12 -> Trump '16 deplorable Dem -> Trump conversions (though I think they're more likely coming from the universe of previously non-voting deplorables, of whom there are not a few in MI*).

It still doesn't account for the whole dropoff from Obama to Clinton. As I've said upthread, I think outmigration was probably part of the issue. The enthusiasm of POC and especially black voters for Obama was probably assumed to be carrying over to Clinton more than it did. (To be clear, I'm not POC-blaming here. I'm saying the Dems appear to have taken POC votes for granted instead of continuing to speak to and mobilize our communities.) Misogyny, of course. Maybe that, plus the abject failures of the media, plus the Comey idiocy does get you to that 500,000 lost votes. It's just such a stunning number to me. A perfect storm.

*I say this as someone who grew up in MI, to be clear.
posted by tivalasvegas at 3:28 PM on November 17, 2016 [6 favorites]

The thing I can't imagine, I notice, is people who sincerely think Trump would be a better President. Can't. Even.

I think some people want to see Washington D.C. go down in flames. Feature/bug/ all that.
posted by cell divide at 3:30 PM on November 17, 2016 [1 favorite]

Actually, I once heard that if the Queen is visiting Australia she becomes our Head of State for the duration. Our Constitution only says that "executive power ... is vested in the Queen and is exercisable by the Governor-General as the Queen’s representative"

She... is your head of state, all the time, no? Unless Australia works differently to Canada in this regard.

Who's on the money, the G-G or Liz?
posted by tivalasvegas at 3:32 PM on November 17, 2016 [1 favorite]

>are not afraid of Mexicans, and not afraid of Muslims, and not afraid of blacks. They’re afraid of their insurance premiums.

So they voted for a guy who's gonna dismantle Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security. What's the takeaway supposed to be--people aren't racists, they're just unbelievably stupid?
posted by Sing Or Swim at 3:33 PM on November 17, 2016 [22 favorites]

Welcome to America.
posted by Apocryphon at 3:34 PM on November 17, 2016 [2 favorites]

For any listeners who've forgotten to check (like me), Keepin' it 1600 has two episodes up this week -- one from Tuesday and one from this afternoon.
posted by snuffleupagus at 3:34 PM on November 17, 2016 [1 favorite]

Obama Reckons with a Trump Presidency by David Remnick [The New Yorker]
posted by melissasaurus at 3:37 PM on November 17, 2016 [7 favorites]

c'mon MSM! let's have another outrage party like with the totally-unserious-nuthin-happened-email-sitch.

Seriously, WTF? There is something seriously wrong with the "msm." Time and again they accept right wing conceptions of Hillary as fact and fail to point out the direct hypocrisy and the infinitely worse things Trump and his henchmen are up to.

Maybe Clinton lost Michigan because there are a lot of white people in Michigan who voted for white supremacy.

Whole lotta those "white supremacists" voted for Obama in previous elections, does that fit your explanation?

It seems entirely possible people voted for Obama and felt proud of it, and still voted for Trump for racist reasons, yet don't consider themselves racist. Racism is weird. Just listen the David Frum's recent podcast with Ezra Kleine where he seems to say both that he was proud of voting for Obama and gave a weird apologism for GOP racism based on tribal human nature.

The fact that 67% of people voted in Michigan makes me less convinced that there was a significant GOTV problem, but perhaps Hillary didn't do a great job of it, and Trump found a massive amount of new voters. There seems to be some indication of this and that Trump's rally-based ground game was much better than people realize. And if he keeps his rallies going as he intends to, perhaps he'll be able to build even more support. I thought I heard that she under-performed in urban areas as well.

The fact that Michigan, Iowa, Pennsylvania, West Virginia are turning from blue or neutral to red, is a big problem. We need to come up with a strategy to try to take them back, not by appealing to racism, but by building a movement around our own message and outrage and Trump's fascism and bigotry. The reason they don't like being called racists is because they still have a conscience, so we should continue to appeal to it.

@KitOConnell: #MichaelFlynn part of Act For America, part of the "inner core" of the #Islamophobia Industry in US

Lt. General Michael Flynn
Position: Board Member, Adviser

His words:

“Let us not fear what we know to be true. Let us accept what we were founded upon. Our Judeo-Christian ideology built on a moral set of rules and laws. Let’s not fear, but instead fight those who want to impose Sharia law and radical Islamist views.”

“They [radical Islamists] want to impose their way of life on us. On the West and principally the United States of America.”

“It’s not in their [Muslim’s] conscience, life like we understand life. It just isn’t.”

“I don’t see Islam as a religion. I mean, I see it as a political ideology. I’ve studied it, I’ve looked at it, I see it as a political ideology.”

Okay, maybe we should be calling our congresspeople about Flynn as well.
posted by Golden Eternity at 3:37 PM on November 17, 2016 [11 favorites]

They’re afraid of their insurance premiums.

I was walking in downtown Grand Haven last summer when some guy in a pickup drove by and screamed at me to go back to my country. Presumably this was high-deductible-related angst?

John Stewart is better than this. Ugh.
posted by tivalasvegas at 3:39 PM on November 17, 2016 [40 favorites]

people aren't racists, they're just unbelievably stupid?

Interestingly, this would adhere to the "don't mistake incompetence for malice" proverb. Phenomenally incompetent people who don't really have the ability to analyze policy points that effect them or others voting for somebody who has conned them who also happens to be racist (but he's told them he's not racist and they fell for that con too). So I do think it possible that a bunch of Trump voters are really just dumb when it comes to understanding how politics and the world and life and maybe even stuff like simple machines work.

Unfortunately, when there is a boot kicking you in the face, it sort of doesn't matter if its kicking because its malicious or just because its stupid.

Nobody likes to feel like they're stupid or like they've been conned or like they're being scolded for a bad choice, though, so I'm not sure how to bring the cohort of the very dumb on board to vote for stuff that actually helps them. Telling the truth doesn't work, salesmanship doesn't work. We need better con men but all the best con men seem to be Republican right now.
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:39 PM on November 17, 2016 [10 favorites]

Um so James Clapper just quit. Bolton is calling for a regime change in Iran, (talk about a crazed geezer who seems little more than a mustache, with an angry God complex.) I am not approaching terrified, no, actually I am there. With someone else talking about rounding up Muslims in this country. Hey! WTF America! Whoa wake up!
posted by Oyéah at 3:40 PM on November 17, 2016 [1 favorite]

John Stewart is better than this. Ugh.

For many people, the bargaining and acceptance stages of dealing with this outcome aren't just about Trump but a modus vivendi with friends and family who supported Trump.

Which they've never bothered with, when out of power, and we ought to remember that.
posted by snuffleupagus at 3:44 PM on November 17, 2016 [2 favorites]

The fact that 67% of people voted in Michigan makes me less convinced that there was a significant GOTV problem, but perhaps Hillary didn't do a great job of it, and Trump found a massive amount of new voters.

Per the NYT provisional election results, 4,790,917 people voted in Michigan, basically the same number as voted in 2012 and a bit less than '08. (source: MI Secretary of State.) Unless the voting age population has dropped off significantly, I'm not seeing a 67% number from those results. And the Michigan economy has improved drastically since 2008. I lived there for a hot minute in the wake of the Great Recession and it was absolutely miserable -- unemployment was heading toward 15% in a state that had basically been in recession already for the whole of the Bush years. What's the rate now? 5.4%, same as the national average.

So (legitimate) economic anxiety (as opposed to ginned-up FoxNewsism) won't go far to explain this, either.
posted by tivalasvegas at 3:49 PM on November 17, 2016 [6 favorites]

"don't mistake incompetence for malice"
< quibble>
That's "do not attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity."
< /quibble >
posted by snuffleupagus at 3:50 PM on November 17, 2016 [1 favorite]

The biggest mistake Obama made for the 2016 elections was putting James Comey in charge of the FBI.

Obama could signal his acknowledgment of that fact, and the fact of Comey's partisan interference in the election, by firing him. What at this point does he have to lose?
posted by Gelatin at 3:50 PM on November 17, 2016 [2 favorites]

Maybe the possibility that Comey stays on? FBI directors have long terms. I feel like while he's a shitheel he's unlikely to allow Trump to out-and-out run the FBI like the Stasi, and I'm suddenly much more comfortable with a leaky FBI prone to political infighting....

Who the hell knows who else we'd get instead. David Clarke? Arpaio? The ghost of Daryl Gates?
posted by snuffleupagus at 3:54 PM on November 17, 2016 [1 favorite]

Petraeus at the FBI would be kind of funny.
posted by Apocryphon at 3:56 PM on November 17, 2016

Ok people this is not a drill:

.@Scaramucci tells @SRuhle he sees Jared Kushner as the Alexander Hamilton of the new administration and I need more info on that metaphor

--@alexa_keyes

Young, scrappy and hungry. Incredibly smart. Great innate business sense. Just the type of person we've been yearning for in government

--@Scaramucci

Anthony Scaramucci is a hedge fund guy on the transition committee. Is nothing sacred to these people?

Fun fact: Scaramouche is a commedia dell'arte stock clown; "he was often beaten by Harlequin for his boasting and cowardice." He's also the guy who is told to "do the fandango."
posted by zachlipton at 3:57 PM on November 17, 2016 [6 favorites]

Goodbye, American neoliberalism. A new era is here
Cornel West

Trump’s election was enabled by the policies that overlooked the plight of our most vulnerable citizens. We gird ourselves for a frightening future...

.... The Bush and Clinton dynasties were destroyed by the media-saturated lure of the pseudo-populist billionaire with narcissist sensibilities and ugly, fascist proclivities. The monumental election of Trump was a desperate and xenophobic cry of human hearts for a way out from under the devastation of a disintegrating neoliberal order – a nostalgic return to an imaginary past of greatness.

White working- and middle-class fellow citizens – out of anger and anguish – rejected the economic neglect of neoliberal policies and the self-righteous arrogance of elites. Yet these same citizens also supported a candidate who appeared to blame their social misery on minorities, and who alienated Mexican immigrants, Muslims, black people, Jews, gay people, women and China in the process.

This lethal fusion of economic insecurity and cultural scapegoating brought neoliberalism to its knees.

.... In this bleak moment, we must inspire each other driven by a democratic soulcraft of integrity, courage, empathy and a mature sense of history – even as it seems our democracy is slipping away.

posted by Rumple at 4:11 PM on November 17, 2016 [5 favorites]

Penzey's Spices (of all businesses) is taking a strong, principled stand on the election.

Great place to shop for holiday and/or quonsar gifts, as it happens. Just a thought.
(Rumors that I just gave them all my moneys, and then some, are... well founded.)
posted by Superplin at 4:21 PM on November 17, 2016 [33 favorites]

Goodbye, American neoliberalism. A new era is here

Oh boy. A sanctimonious Guardian piece telling us how terrible liberals are for not defeating Republicans in a valiant battle which has fucked the middle class for four decades. Can't have too many of those. Social liberalism's inability to work miracles in the political arena should absolutely be seen as the issue here.
posted by Talez at 4:27 PM on November 17, 2016 [17 favorites]

2008 me would not believe the amount of fervent hope I am investing in Mitt Romney today.

2008/12 me would not believe I'd probably take the whole Bush administration right now.

The Overton Window continues its long march rightward.
posted by triggerfinger at 4:28 PM on November 17, 2016 [10 favorites]

Reporting in - I'm having my first "since I'm a white male so it's my job as a white male to talk with other white males about how they're being racist dill weeds" conversation right now and so far I've not used the phrase "fuck right off, prick wipe." Wish me luck!
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:30 PM on November 17, 2016 [28 favorites]

The Overton Window is what got shattered instead of the glass ceiling when Trump won. Getting Romney or sane people in the cabinet IS moving the frame containing the shards back to the left at this point.
posted by chris24 at 4:31 PM on November 17, 2016 [9 favorites]

Question: I feel like there have been far more names floated for various positions that I recall in 2008 or 2000 (but I also admit that I probably didn't pay as close attention, because I assumed even Dubya kind of had an idea of how government worked). Is this a sign of the total chaos and lack of discipline in Trump's team? Are they just naming people before they've even contacted them? Certainly it seems like they didn't get Ben Carson's opinion on things before sending his name out...
posted by TwoStride at 4:40 PM on November 17, 2016 [4 favorites]

Today I called both my senators (Flake and McCain), and told their staffers I really hoped their bosses would support a bipartisan investigation into and audit of this election, given that the NSA Director himself has confirmed meddling by Russia.

I also called Ruben Gallego's office, to tell him I've never been prouder to have him represent me than today, given that amazing, impassioned and principled statement he gave to the House about the danger of collaborating with the president elect, and to urge him to continue to be a strong voice for his constituents in Washington. But my voice broke while I was talking, and I sobbed after I hung up the phone.

The staffer sounded very pleased and thankful to get such a call, which made me happy once I stopped crying.
This goddamned year.
posted by Superplin at 4:40 PM on November 17, 2016 [38 favorites]

Dubya was in the thrall of a group of people who weren't as smart as they thought they were, but who did know how the government worked. Any serious candidate has his cabinet picked out shortly after winning the nomination and at least notepads full of names, whether contacted yet or not, for the many other slots that will need to be filled. Trump simply never gave any serious weight to the possibility of winning. Ironically he did have a policy team who probably could have helped him a lot at this point, but he stiffed them like he does everyone who works for him and they all quit so now he's on his own.
posted by Bringer Tom at 4:43 PM on November 17, 2016 [7 favorites]

Is this a sign of the total chaos and lack of discipline in Trump's team? Are they just naming people before they've even contacted them? Certainly it seems like they didn't get Ben Carson's opinion on things before sending his name out...

Yes
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:44 PM on November 17, 2016 [4 favorites]

A Saturday Night Massacre redux is only possible if there are people in positions to be fired who actually object to things Trump might do, and are willing to be fired for objecting to them.

Future post title: "If Washington isn’t gon’ listen to disciplined dissidents, this is the difference: This kid is out!"
posted by wildblueyonder at 4:45 PM on November 17, 2016 [1 favorite]

>Are they just naming people before they've even contacted them?

I think they're just throwing out names to wear out the opposition. If they set fires in ten different locations it's hard to know where to send the fire department.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 4:46 PM on November 17, 2016 [5 favorites]

You guys, you're watching the distractions. You're like cats and they've got laser pointers.
posted by perspicio at 4:46 PM on November 17, 2016 [6 favorites]

Is this a sign of the total chaos and lack of discipline in Trump's team?

Not really. As I said before, it's Trump being Trump.

@realdonaldtrump: Very organized process taking place as I decide on Cabinet and many other positions. I am the only one who knows who the finalists are!

@realdonaldtrump: My transition team, which is working long hours and doing a fantastic job, will be seeing many great candidates today. #MAGA

This is a guy who's spent the last decade working on a reality TV competition. He knows all about misdirection, suspense, keeping people tuned in, stringing people along, and pitting them against each other. He's treating the "prize" of his cabinet appointments in exactly the same way. At the moment, it's all for show. Don't give it the attention he craves.
posted by Roommate at 4:47 PM on November 17, 2016 [18 favorites]

The Overton Window is what got shattered instead of the glass ceiling when Trump won.

Yep. This is one of the many, many reasons I despise the Bernie bros turned Stein voters. All that talk about a 'new' Democratic party? That's bullshit. Four years from now, not wanting to cut the minimum wage will sound progressive. Thinking birth control isn't murder will sound progressive.

And we will gladly, gladly eat our own to do it.

Nice job breaking it, assholes.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 4:48 PM on November 17, 2016 [9 favorites]

The Overton Window is what got shattered instead of the glass ceiling when Trump won. Getting Romney or sane people in the cabinet IS moving the frame containing the shards back to the left at this point.

I really hope so. But I remember being pretty horrified after W was handed the election in 2000, and in the years that followed, wondering if it could get much worse. I never thought the day would come when I'd be almost longing for the fucking Bush Administration. But ever since, discourse in this country seems to have drifted even more rightward. In 2008 this was cranked up to full speed ahead with the rise of the tea party and remember how horrified we were by Romney's 47% comment? Now that we have a straight-up, bonafide white nationalist in the white house, all of that stuff just seems so quaint.

I agree with everyone saying this shouldn't be normalized, but this stuff has been slowly being normalized for a long time now, and now I'm just really worried we won't be able to stop it.
posted by triggerfinger at 4:49 PM on November 17, 2016 [10 favorites]

Goodbye, American neoliberalism. A new era is here

Oh boy. A sanctimonious Guardian piece telling us how terrible liberals are for not defeating Republicans in a valiant battle which has fucked the middle class for four decades. Can't have too many of those. Social liberalism's inability to work miracles in the political arena should absolutely be seen as the issue here.

Not to mention that was written by Cornel West who was supporting Jill Stein. Sorry, dude, it will be awhile before I can read anything by West.

You guys, you're watching the distractions. You're like cats and they've got laser pointers.

Boy that sounds familiar-- where have I heard that before?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:50 PM on November 17, 2016 [5 favorites]

The Overton Window is what got shattered instead of the glass ceiling when Trump won.

It was upgraded to the Overton Quantum Reality Field.
posted by Glibpaxman at 4:53 PM on November 17, 2016 [1 favorite]

You guys, you're watching the distractions. You're like cats and they've got laser pointers.

Wake us sheeple up then and tell us where we should be looking.
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:56 PM on November 17, 2016 [2 favorites]

> This is a guy who's spent the last decade working on a reality TV competition. He knows all about misdirection, suspense, keeping people tuned in, stringing people along, and pitting them against each other. He's treating the "prize" of his cabinet appointments in exactly the same way. At the moment, it's all for show. Don't give it the attention he craves.

I mean, yes, but reality show storylines don't come from the stars, they come from the producers and editors. The President-Elect thinks he was the guy in charge of Celebrity Apprentice, but really Mark Burnett ran the show.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 4:56 PM on November 17, 2016 [6 favorites]

The Overton Revolving Door?
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:58 PM on November 17, 2016 [3 favorites]

WaPo The president-elect’s visitor log: A skateboarder, a boxer and ‘Judge Jeanine’

On his eighth day of being the president-elect, Donald Trump met with New England Patriots owner Robert Kraft, flashed a thumbs-up in a photo with boxer Floyd Mayweather Jr. and got some foreign policy advice from pro-skateboarder Billy Rohan, who says the United States could bring about peace by building skate parks around the world.

The next morning, Trump had a 15-minute phone call with Piers Morgan, the British journalist who once hosted major television programs, and was visited by Jeanine Pirro, a former prosecutor turned minor celebrity who has a Saturday night Fox News show called “Justice with Judge Jeanine.”

Welcome to the variety show that has become Trump’s informal kitchen cabinet — now webcast daily by C-SPAN.[...]

But the presence of so many nontraditional visitors and advisers raises a question: Is this really the best use of the president-elect’s time, especially when his transition team has just undergone a leadership purge and is only now reaching out to many major federal agencies? [...]

“If it’s a bunch of people coming by to give him flowers and take a photo, that’s just going to make him feel invincible,” Light said. “What he needs is a dose of reality right now.”

posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:59 PM on November 17, 2016 [2 favorites]

The Overton Revolving Door?

I think its more like The Overton Wall That Used To Have A Window But Its Been Knocked Down So Now The House Only Has Three Sides.
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:00 PM on November 17, 2016 [3 favorites]

I mean, yes, but reality show storylines don't come from the stars, they come from the producers and editors. The President-Elect thinks he was the guy in charge of Celebrity Apprentice, but really Mark Burnett ran the show.

Maybe, but that doesn't change the fact that each of the many names released in the past few days was leaked specifically to generate headlines and chatter, and not as any serious "this is definitely the man/woman for the job" news.
posted by Roommate at 5:01 PM on November 17, 2016

I mean, Trump craves attention. It's all he cares about. Even when asked a question as simple as "will you accept the results of the election", his answer was "I'll keep you in suspense." He's going to drag this out, with as many headlines as he can get, for as long as he can. I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't announce his actual picks until his inauguration.
posted by Roommate at 5:03 PM on November 17, 2016 [3 favorites]

For A Democratic Polarisation: How To Pull The Ground From Under Right-wing Populism

An interview with Jürgen Habermas on 17 November 2016

Does this mean we are going through a period of making irrational politics the norm in the West? Some parts of the Left are already making the case for reacting to right-wing populism with a left-wing version of the same.

Before reacting purely tactically, the puzzle has to be solved as to how it came about that right-wing populism stole the Left’s own themes. The last G-20 summit delivered an instructive piece of theatre in this regard. One read of the assembled heads of government’s alarm at the “danger from the Right” that might lead nation states to close their doors, raise the drawbridge high and lay waste to globalised markets. This mood embraces the flabbergasting change in social and economic policy that one of the participants, Theresa May, announced at the latest Conservative party conference and that caused waves of anger as expected in the pro-business media. Obviously, the British prime minister had thoroughly studied the social reasons for Brexit; in any case, she is trying to take the wind out of the sails of right-wing populism by reversing the previous party line and setting store by an interventionist “strong state” in order to combat the marginalisation of the “left behind” parts of the population and the increasing divisions within society. Given this ironic reversal of the political agenda, the Left in Europe must ask itself why right-wing populism is succeeding in winning over the oppressed and disadvantaged for the false path of national isolation.

posted by Rumple at 5:04 PM on November 17, 2016 [8 favorites]

I'm not super thrilled by the notion of having both major political parties become unmoored from reality...
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 5:08 PM on November 17, 2016 [1 favorite]

Nicholas Kristof: A 12-Step Program for Responding to President-Elect Trump
posted by triggerfinger at 5:09 PM on November 17, 2016

This is a guy who's spent the last decade working on a reality TV competition. He knows all about misdirection, suspense, keeping people tuned in, stringing people along, and pitting them against each other. He's treating the "prize" of his cabinet appointments in exactly the same way. At the moment, it's all for show. Don't give it the attention he craves.

I hear what you're saying, but it's a bit of a dilemma. If he drops a name and there's no reaction, it's consent by silence. I don't know what the best strategy might be since he's going to fill the place with deplorables anyway ...
posted by Joe in Australia at 5:09 PM on November 17, 2016 [1 favorite]

Bracketing off the question of whether or not there will be elections in 2020, we can be fairly certain that 2016 was the final election where television mattered. By 2020, the only important media for winning a Presidential campaign will be Internet-based.

As such I say the Democrats should nominate whoever runs the Socialist Meme Caucus facebook group.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 5:12 PM on November 17, 2016 [2 favorites]

More on the Kelly front: Megyn Kelly: Fox News Had to Explain to Trump Lawyer Why It Would Be Bad if I Were Killed

The lawyer? Michael "Says Who?" Cohen.

“Michael Cohen, who is Trump's top lawyer and executive vice president with the Trump Organization had retweeted ‘let’s gut her,’ about me,” Kelly said. “At a time when the threat level was very high, which he knew. And Bill Shine, an executive vice president of Fox, called him up to say, 'You got to stop this. We understand you are angry but she's got three kids and is walking around New York.' ”

This fucking campaign. This fucking campaign. This is like watching the fall of the Roman Empire in real time.
posted by Talez at 5:14 PM on November 17, 2016 [49 favorites]

okay no check that. Kate McKinnon is 32 right now, meaning she'd be eligible to run for President in 2020.

Therefore, I propose the Democrats nominate a national unity ticket: Kate McKinnon as President, Alec Baldwin as Vice President.

(is everyone going to make phone calls tomorrow about Bannon and Flynn?)
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 5:15 PM on November 17, 2016 [2 favorites]

“Michael Cohen, who is Trump's top lawyer and executive vice president with the Trump Organization had retweeted ‘let’s gut her,’ about me,” Kelly said. “At a time when the threat level was very high, which he knew. And Bill Shine, an executive vice president of Fox, called him up to say, 'You got to stop this. We understand you are angry but she's got three kids and is walking around New York.' ”

Thank God we learned this now when it can be used to help keep Trump from being elected!
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:15 PM on November 17, 2016 [15 favorites]

Jeanine Pirro, a former prosecutor turned minor celebrity who has a Saturday night Fox News show called “Justice with Judge Jeanine.”

politically, she'd be a moderate pick for the Supreme Court
posted by Apocryphon at 5:17 PM on November 17, 2016 [1 favorite]

"but wait!" you say. "If Kate McKinnon ran for President, who would play her on SNL?"

To which I respond: "..."
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 5:18 PM on November 17, 2016

While I would agree that Trump's campaign was based on showmanship and propaganda techniques, I really don't get that impression about his current gyrations. I think he really just doesn't know quite what to do. He's just been having fun flying around to rallies and giving speeches and then he got his prize, and he walked into the Oval Office to have Barack politely ask him how much of his homework he had done. And the answer is, of course, none because Trump doesn't do work. So he is flailing, trying to at least fill the most prominent positions with people he counts among his handful of "trusted friends," and not having complete luck even there. As for the rest of it it's that term paper due on Jan 20 which is probably going to be way, way late just because all the other candidates were scribbling names before the primary and Trump was too busy being Trump.

My sole qualification for being President is having watched at least three seasons of The West Wing and even I know an incoming President has to name a cabinet, staff the West Wing, and have a slew of other appointments ready most of which will be prepared by those A-list staffers for him. Trump has been seriously (or less?) talking about running for President at least since the early 90's and it appears this basic bit of TV viewer wisdom never penetrated his crystal palace.
posted by Bringer Tom at 5:19 PM on November 17, 2016 [17 favorites]

This Irish politician just said what many American leaders are too scared to say about Trump.

Here's Senator Ó Ríordáin's complete statement. How shameful that no political leader in the US will say this.
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:23 PM on November 17, 2016 [10 favorites]

Just caught up again on the thread, and if I hear one more jokey white-man dream president candidate floating around, I swear...

George Clooney? Tom Hanks? Jon Stewart? Is this real right now?

Kate McKinnon is wonderful but what this country needs right now is gives-no-fucks Leslie Jones and other voices like her.
posted by erratic meatsack at 5:26 PM on November 17, 2016 [20 favorites]

What the country needs right now is a do-over. But apparently sometimes you get neither what you want nor what you need.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 5:31 PM on November 17, 2016 [13 favorites]

Wake us sheeple up then and tell us where we should be looking.

Okay,i know I'm becoming insufferable. So forgive me, if you can. But: Wrong question.

Roommate's got half of it:

At the moment, it's all for show. Don't give it the attention he craves.

The other half is not where to look, but what to do instead of endlessly reacting.

Goddamnit. Even with all the misdirection, deception, intimidation, and yes, cheating...Even with all that...We fucking won on raw numbers. We could still win. We could at least still try. It would cost us, but it would be so fucking worth the cost. Because the cost if we don't....

Jesus.....
posted by perspicio at 5:33 PM on November 17, 2016

While I would agree that Trump's campaign was based on showmanship and propaganda techniques, I really don't get that impression about his current gyrations. I think he really just doesn't know quite what to do.

I don't believe there's a difference. This is just the strategy that has always worked for him before, and may be working for him again.
posted by Joe in Australia at 5:34 PM on November 17, 2016 [1 favorite]

George Clooney? Tom Hanks? Jon Stewart? Is this real right now?

Speaking of Jon Stewart:

"Nobody asked Donald Trump, what makes America great?"
posted by philip-random at 5:35 PM on November 17, 2016 [3 favorites]

But apparently sometimes you get neither what you want nor what you need.

Dangit, Mick Jagger is going to be peeved.
posted by Bringer Tom at 5:35 PM on November 17, 2016 [2 favorites]

A do over? You mean, like, if there were still another election, only that one really counted?
posted by perspicio at 5:40 PM on November 17, 2016 [2 favorites]

>> But apparently sometimes you get neither what you want nor what you need.

> Dangit, Mick Jagger is going to be peeved.

Nah, the claim that you sometimes get neither what you want nor what you need is entirely consistent with the claim that you can't always get what you want but that if you try sometimes you get what you need.

Mick Jagger therefore has no reason to be mad. well, okay, he has reason to be mad: there's this really creepy guy who kept using his song at his crazypants rallies...
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 5:41 PM on November 17, 2016 [3 favorites]

Joe in AU: I don't believe there's a difference. This is just the strategy that has always worked for him before, and may be working for him again.

I think there's a very large difference. During the campaign it was a strategy; not necessarily to win but to maximize his exposure and expand his brand. Moreover it was directed. Trump contradicted himself all over the place but it wasn't because he wasn't targeted, it was because he shifted targets according to his audience. He was actually very focused on what he said to whom.

Since the 9th, though, not so much. Trump seems more like a guy who has one five pound bag of sugar and needs to fill three fifty-pound sacks to make a delivery. He's not quite facing the fact that he's not going to make that delivery, and is going to look like a very substantial fool when he fails. I believe he knows in his heart this is where it leads -- which is why he looked so miserable both in that announcement of win photo and in those photos of his meet with Obama -- and this is just trying to kick the can of misery as far down the road as he can before he's forced to face it. Because, again, it's not a good strategy but that's what Trump does. He has no history at all of actually owning any of his failures and taking responsibility. He is probably having trouble finding people even for the few positions he's hoping to actually fill because the candidates know they'll be scapegoated for the rest of the transition failure.
posted by Bringer Tom at 5:41 PM on November 17, 2016 [4 favorites]

My sole qualification for being President is having watched at least three seasons of The West Wing and even I know an incoming President has to name a cabinet, staff the West Wing, and have a slew of other appointments ready most of which will be prepared by those A-list staffers for him. Trump has been seriously (or less?) talking about running for President at least since the early 90's and it appears this basic bit of TV viewer wisdom never penetrated his crystal palace.

There were times in October when I thought that someone should just force him to sit down and binge watch the first season of the West Wing. Then when he got bored (as he would inevitably would) someone could point out that the TV show was a hellava lot more entertaining than real life. I honestly believe he thought the President played golf, flew around on Air Force One and scmoozed with world leaders.

Going on...
Reading that list of that two-bit celebrities that visited him today I think we have an inkling of what White House Dinners and Galas are going to be like during the next four years.

This New Yorker piece Obama Reckons With a Trump Presidency is said to be "hard, sad, crushing, but still hopeful." I can't bring myself to read it just now.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:45 PM on November 17, 2016 [10 favorites]

A do over? You mean, like, if there were still another election, only that one really counted?

That's what many Brits are scrambling for now, yes.
posted by Apocryphon at 5:48 PM on November 17, 2016 [3 favorites]

SLoGravy, I read that NYT piece. Hard, sad, crushing yes. Obama bravely offers us hope. Nobody is really buying it though, including the author, Obama's staff, and me. In it Obama is quoted as saying he doesn't believe in the apocalypse until, well, the apocalypse, but you could also say that's like not believing the ship is going down until your feet get wet.
posted by Bringer Tom at 5:49 PM on November 17, 2016 [1 favorite]

but you could also say that's like not believing the ship is going down until your feet get wet.

more along the lines of, you don't abandon the ship until there's no hope of stopping it from going under. In the meantime, you attend to the emergency, do everything you can to keep things afloat
posted by philip-random at 5:53 PM on November 17, 2016 [2 favorites]

Daniel Dale: Trump faces ‘militant’ response if he targets undocumented ‘DREAMers,’ advocate says

Cortes, 20, was brought to America from Mexico as a one-year-old child. As a “DREAMer,” someone who arrived illegally before his 16th birthday, he was able to enrol in a Barack Obama program that protects him from deportation and gives him a renewable two-year work permit.

Seeing possibility, he became the first person in his family to graduate high school. He was able to obtain a driver’s licence and a good casino job. He bought a car. And he enrolled in cosmetology school, a first step toward his goal of a career as a beauty products entrepreneur.

Trump has vowed to “immediately” scrap the Obama program, a unilateral executive action he and other conservatives say is both unconstitutional and an inappropriate reward for bad behaviour. He can do so, if he wants to, on his first day in office.

It kills me because the "bad behavior" Trump is talking about was committed by the parents. A one year old cannot make decisions about where to live. So Trump was to punish someone for something their parents did. And these kids...how terrible to be banished from the country you grew up in. It proves our new President has no empathy and apparently his family has none either. Melania of all people should be able to talk to him about coming to this country to pursue a dream and not doing it legally but I'm guessing she has kept her mouth shut or has pretended her own story is special.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:53 PM on November 17, 2016 [9 favorites]

I mean, maybe? But I really hope the Dems have better plans than "hold our breath and wait for Trump to die."

Well, I wouldn't hold your breath
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:55 PM on November 17, 2016 [1 favorite]

TODDLERS killed more people in America than terrorists did, this year. Why don't we just round them up in case THEY go ballistic en mass.
posted by Oyéah at 5:56 PM on November 17, 2016 [6 favorites]

That's what many Brits are scrambling for now, yes.

I wonder if there's any relevant analogy in the US.
posted by perspicio at 5:58 PM on November 17, 2016

This is a guy who's spent the last decade working on a reality TV competition. He's treating the "prize" of his cabinet appointments in exactly the same way. At the moment, it's all for show.

Okay, then, let's make it the Overton Fourth Wall.
posted by oneswellfoop at 5:59 PM on November 17, 2016 [2 favorites]

Well, I wouldn't hold your breath

I think it's kind of interesting to enumerate all the ways Trump's first term might end, neutrally and without stating a preference. Because some of them might seem a bit more likely than they would be for other Presidents.

• Reelection to 2nd term
• Loses re-election bid
• Does not run for re-election
• Resignation
• Impeachment and conviction
• Assassination
• Never takes office in the first place. Pence does.
• Never takes office in the first place, but Pence doesn't either.

I can think of plausible scenarios for all of those; remember, even Saint Reagan took a bullet for his job and nobody saw Watergate coming until the good ship Nixon had all but broken in half.
posted by Bringer Tom at 6:03 PM on November 17, 2016 [1 favorite]

He has no history at all of actually owning any of his failures and taking responsibility. He is probably having trouble finding people even for the few positions he's hoping to actually fill because the candidates know they'll be scapegoated for the rest of the transition failure.

That's an excellent point, Bringer Tom. It's not like he can sell shares in the Presidency and then walk away when it starts to go pear-shaped. My guess is the propaganda machine will be cranked up to 11 in order to sell all the broken promises as someone else's fault. As in, "ObamaCare bankrupted the system so we have to get rid of MediCare and MediCaid" We will be in for a lot of that shit in the next 4 years.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:03 PM on November 17, 2016 [1 favorite]

In addition to calling my reps and senators, I plan on contacting all major newsrooms and editors on a DAILY BASIS if they keep pulling this shit.
posted by erratic meatsack at 6:07 PM on November 17, 2016 [9 favorites]

Seems to me I read somewhere that Obamacare extended the solvency of Medicare by however many years. Anybody got a reliable citation for that? And what do we have to do to spread it around so that people are inoculated against Ryan's bullshit?
posted by Sing Or Swim at 6:09 PM on November 17, 2016

So I'm picturing Trump and Kushner frantically binge-watching The West Wing right now so as to get some fucking rudimentary idea what the White House staff even does.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:11 PM on November 17, 2016 [9 favorites]

Maybe they can call Richard Schiff and Bradley Whitford. I trust them.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:13 PM on November 17, 2016 [3 favorites]

It's not like he can sell shares in the Presidency and then walk away when it starts to go pear-shaped.

Yep. And that's exactly how he got out of at least one of his disasters, the how stupid can you be over-expansion that eviscerated his Atlantic City casino empire. He ended up taking it public so that the investors would be on the chin for the unpayable debts. Other Peoples' Money, motherfuckers.

And Trump's repertoire of such stunts is actually a bit limited. Get the investors to pay, sue the complainers, stiff the contractors, walk over the annoying little people who get in the way.

But I think it started occurring to him as he was meeting with Obama that none of that shit works for you in politics, and he's just found out that while he is going to have a ton of cool power he is also faced with a mountain of unpleasant work he will have to get somebody to do, because Trump certainly doesn't do that kind of shit himself. I'm sure that Obama smoothely let Trump know that he had, of course, done all that stuff as a matter of course as you're expected to as a president-elect, knowing that Trump hadn't done it and didn't know he needed to and surely wouldn't want to. Oh to be a fly on the wall of that room...
posted by Bringer Tom at 6:15 PM on November 17, 2016 [9 favorites]

Seems to me I read somewhere that Obamacare extended the solvency of Medicare by however many years. Anybody got a reliable citation for that?

11 years
posted by bluecore at 6:17 PM on November 17, 2016 [4 favorites]

The son of top Donald Trump adviser and retired Gen. Michael Flynn regularly shares conspiracy theories, expletive-filled posts, and racially insensitive sentiments on Twitter and Facebook, a CNN KFile review of his social media presence reveals.

Flynn's son, Michael G. Flynn, shared stories alleging top Hillary Clinton aide Huma Abedin had a connection to the Muslim Brotherhood, pushed a conspiracy theory that Sen. Marco Rubio was a closeted homosexual who abused cocaine, and repeatedly used expletives to attack Trump's political opponents.

Ugh. There is more but I am not posting it here. He is his dad's COS and his dad is now Nat'l Security advisor. Astounding.
posted by futz at 6:18 PM on November 17, 2016 [6 favorites]

George Clooney? Tom Hanks? Jon Stewart? Is this real right now?

I know I'm not the first one even in this thread but the day after the election I independently came up with Kanye West, and then I googled it and everybody else was saying Kanye West should run. And you know what? That still feels like it might work.
posted by atoxyl at 6:19 PM on November 17, 2016

Paul Ryan’s false claim that ‘because of Obamacare, Medicare is going broke’
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:19 PM on November 17, 2016 [5 favorites]

Guardian: Trump camp claims he never called for Muslim registry despite video evidence

Spokesman for president-elect’s transition team said he ‘never advocated for any registry or system that tracks individuals based on their religion’, which is false

posted by Johnny Wallflower at 6:24 PM on November 17, 2016 [5 favorites]

I know I'm not the first one even in this thread but the day after the election I independently came up with Kanye West, and then I googled it and everybody else was saying Kanye West should run. And you know what? That still feels like it might work.

I am definitely feeling like the Democrats need a "Trump" - but it would be a huge mistake to assume that means "someone like Donald Trump." It means someone who represents core Democratic values and constituencies while having Trumpian DGAF charisma.
posted by atoxyl at 6:25 PM on November 17, 2016 [4 favorites]

There were times in October when I thought that someone should just force him to sit down and binge watch the first season of the West Wing.

And on non-preview, The Secret Life of Gravy said it better, first.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:27 PM on November 17, 2016

Photo footage of President-elect's meeting with Shinzo Abe of Japan, and Ivanka.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:33 PM on November 17, 2016 [1 favorite]

I know it's the going thing to be all anti-establishment and pro-outsider and iconoclastic (if not in the gross totally unqualified Trump way), and certainly there are problems with insider culture, cronyism, money, etc. But I am hereby raising a glass to the reviled and maligned professional political public servant. There is nothing wrong, and often everything right, about people who make careers of working in government, whether in elected office or civil service. We don't need to elect more fucking celebrities that have no clue how to do this kind of work.

When I need my roof fixed, I hire a trained, experienced roofer, not a goddamn dentist.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:37 PM on November 17, 2016 [34 favorites]

Retired Lt. Gen. Michael Flynn, who has reportedly been offered the role of national security adviser in Donald Trump’s White House, began receiving classified national security briefings last summer while he was also running a private consulting firm that offered “all-source intelligence support” to international clients.

What was striking, according to ethics experts, is that given his overseas consulting business, Flynn began sitting in on classified intelligence briefings with Trump last summer. Flynn was reportedly so assertive during the initial briefing in August, peppering the briefers with rapid-fire questions, that Trump’s adviser Gov. Chris Christie of New Jersey, who also attended the briefing, was prompted to try to calm him down by placing a hand on his arm.

One retired military officer who has advised both Republican and Democratic presidents said of the allegations about Flynn: “If this is true, it’s a disqualifying conflict of interest — if not by ethics laws, certainly in the spirit of conflict of interest, not to mention security regulations. We should be deeply concerned about his ethical judgment, but more specifically how can he possibly provide unbiased advice to the POTUS about Turkey and Russia, when he’s taken money from both.”
posted by futz at 6:40 PM on November 17, 2016 [35 favorites]

Buzzfeed: As A Broader Movement, Black Lives Matter Braces For Trump’s Presidency
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:45 PM on November 17, 2016 [1 favorite]

But I think it started occurring to him as he was meeting with Obama that none of that shit works for you in politics

There was an interview with Obama from a few years back (Esquire? GQ? Can't seem to find it now), where Obama was talking about the difficulties of his job. About the things that reach his desk are almost always unsolvable problems. If they were easy to solve, or moderate difficulty, some staffer would have already taken care of it. What was left came to him. And he had to make the best decision with what information he had, knowing it becomes his problem now. Whatever happens, he'll get the blame even though he didn't create the problem in the first place.

I'm hoping Obama made this aspect of the job very clear to Trump. That most days will not have a clear victory. Most days, he'll be blamed for everything. Even the stuff he had a minimal hand in. And I'm hoping Obama said it with the trademark grin because this part of the job would be Trump's worst nightmare.
posted by honestcoyote at 6:46 PM on November 17, 2016 [22 favorites]

Can you explain just why do these parliamentary countries have an elected ceremonial head of state?

Adam Cadre again:

The beauty of constitutional monarchy is that it gives the stupid people their reality show, but farms it out to a powerless royal family so the real government can get on with its work. And you do have to give the stupid people their reality show. If you don't, they will make the real government into the reality show. In Sarah Palin, Middle America has its Princess Di — the problem is that in the American system, Princess Di would have been second in line to make decisions that affect hundreds of millions of people.

posted by jackbishop at 6:49 PM on November 17, 2016 [17 favorites]

The Overton Window is what got shattered instead of the glass ceiling when Trump won.

Fittingly, a shattered Overton Window is a swastika.
posted by gatorae at 7:03 PM on November 17, 2016 [4 favorites]

I had totally forgotten Donald Trump implied Mitt would have sucked his dick
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:05 PM on November 17, 2016 [2 favorites]

I strongly suspect that the bulk of Trump's "accomplishments" in the next 4 years will be as follows:

1) Limited installation of border fencing in some high profile areas- Cost and a private property rights in Texas will hamper the Wall from being built in any significant way.

2) Slightly Increased ICE deportation activity - ICE has significant funding and staffing challenges which mean that unless a ton of money gets sent their way they will probably continue to operate more or less like they did under Obama

3) Tax Cut - Small tax cut for middle and working class, bulk of the tax cuts focused on estate tax and corporate taxes

4) "Infrastructure" Bill - PPPs and some other grab bag of pork barrel nonsense

5) Some sort of "Mission Accomplished" defeat of ISIS - Yeah some of his nutso allies will push for a war against Iran but I suspect that memories of how Dubya has become a pariah will discourage a major war

6) Lots of Conservative Jurists - I'm hoping that the Scalia pick with be the only one under Trump's watch on the SCOTUS but he'll nominate a ton of dumb judges for lower positions.

Ryan's attempts to "modernize" medicare are already looking toxic so I suspect that will be scrapped. It already looks like Trump is trying to walk back a Muslim Registry and they'll probably just reinstate the increased scrutiny of immigrants coming from some nation states. Racist and completely pointless but it might allow them to say to their base "look at what we did" without completely alienating all of the Gulf States, Pakistan, Bangladesh, etc.

Yes there is also a non-zero chance of Rome burning to the ground as Nero fiddles but probabilities would seem to indicate that incompetence, infighting, and a need to be popular will limit Trump's ability to deliver on elements of his campaign speeches. Still we need to keep pushing back against any attempts to normalize Trump. Make him fight for every last inch and expend his extremely limited political capital.
posted by vuron at 7:07 PM on November 17, 2016 [14 favorites]

From your mouth to God's ear, but I can't imagine that they aren't in fact going to make a serious effort to gut if not kill health care reform. They practically shaped their base into a form that will demand the appearance of it. Nor can I believe they'd aren't going to take a real shot at Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security, because I'm pretty sure the Republican party is full of true believers in the idea that those should not be socialized burdens and tough luck, Darwin's law, and God's mercy to anybody that can't bear them.
posted by wildblueyonder at 7:18 PM on November 17, 2016 [4 favorites]

in my grimly hopeful version of the near future, Trump indeed does go ahead with the mega-Wall-project, contracts are tendered etc ... but at the last moment, just before they start breaking ground, everything gets shifted to the more dire and immediate need for dike building -- mega-walls all over to deal with rising sea levels.
posted by philip-random at 7:21 PM on November 17, 2016 [1 favorite]

George Takei is coming on MSNBC soon. I wonder what he's going to talk about....
posted by Jalliah at 7:26 PM on November 17, 2016 [5 favorites]

I think the ball is in Congress's court when it comes to health care reform. I have no idea what they're going to do: I don't think there are any good options for them.

I strongly suspect that the bulk of Trump's "accomplishments" in the next 4 years will be as follows:

Yeah, that assumes that there's not a terrorist attack on American soil or some sort of international military provocation that challenges Trump's deeply fragile masculinity or something like that. And there will be, because we're not going to get four years in which nothing happens that requires sound judgment and a modicum of self-control.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 7:30 PM on November 17, 2016 [6 favorites]

I wonder if a global multicultural "coexistence" movement (otherwise apolitical) with massive demonstrations around the world, similar to gay pride, could have a powerful impact over the next few years.
posted by Golden Eternity at 7:37 PM on November 17, 2016 [2 favorites]

a global multicultural "coexistence" movement
i'm in - imagine the potlucks!
posted by j_curiouser at 7:40 PM on November 17, 2016 [5 favorites]

Who's going to be paying for Trump's victory tour?
posted by kirkaracha at 7:44 PM on November 17, 2016 [6 favorites]

The more I read about the shady and morally/ethically unqualified henchmen that Rump is surrounding himself with, the more hopeful I feel.

These men have told us who they are, they aren't going to suddenly turn into upstanding people worthy of respect. Instead, now that they have the key to the candy store they will see Rump's win and choosing them as validation. They will abuse their power by being petty, vindictive, retaliatory, and lawless. They think they are untouchable and have a mandate to flaunt facts and reality. This will be their undoing.

They are their own worst enemy. This administration is shaping up to out Watergate Watergate. I can't see how they can pull their shit together and present a united front. The leaks will be unprecedented. The staff turnover will be unprecedented. We are in for a shit show of unprecedented proportions. The egos are huge and hugely fragile. Decisions will be knee-jerk and based on emotion and the consequences will be catastrophic for them. This will be their demise. It is going to get ugly but I don't think it will last. I really don't.

I hope that I am right. Rump has said awful horrific things but I don't think that he can enact any of those promises quickly. We do have checks and balances and some sane people in government.

I am scared for the interim, I am. I am counting on the fact that the toddlers who won the election will be too busy infighting and squabbling over who gets to ride shotgun in the clown car.

Or am I fooling myself? A little bit of both perhaps.
posted by futz at 7:57 PM on November 17, 2016 [7 favorites]

So you wanna talk about normalization?

So DNI Clapper resigned and you maybe wanna take that as a rebuke of Trump rather than he's old and it's a change of administrations?

Who gives a shit what that piece of shit thinks, he's a sicko voyeur surveillance state lying fuckstain.

George W. Bush didn't cast a presidential vote, now he is not so bad? George W. Bush deserves a war crimes trial and a goddamn rope, which is something you can't at least yet say about Trump.

raising a glass to the reviled and maligned professional political public servant.

This gets my goat. You wanna talk about "public servants," that's like a firefighter, the county clerk, or the conductor on the subway. Senators, presidents, kings, MPs, emperors, emirs - they do not SERVE, they RULE. Big fuckin' difference.
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 8:02 PM on November 17, 2016 [1 favorite]

TODDLERS killed more people in America than terrorists did, this year. Why don't we just round them up in case THEY go ballistic en mass.

Cutest concentration camp ever.
posted by OverlappingElvis at 8:05 PM on November 17, 2016 [3 favorites]

You wanna talk about "public servants," that's like a firefighter, the county clerk, or the conductor on the subway. Senators, presidents, kings, MPs, emperors, emirs - they do not SERVE, they RULE. Big fuckin' difference.

I took the comment to refer to people like this, rather than "emirs," which I don't actually think we have here.
posted by neroli at 8:19 PM on November 17, 2016 [7 favorites]

@GenFlynn: Only country worse than Iran is North Korea & they R both in cahoots w each other. EMP is a very serious issue!
posted by Golden Eternity at 8:26 PM on November 17, 2016

What the country needs right now is a do-over.

This ties in with the "head of state" question upthread, and is a reminder that the US Constitution doesn't have any provisions for "everybody in charge fucked up and needs to go", even if those who fucked up and need to go accept that they fucked up and want to go. The US president is essentially an elected 18th-century monarch with a personal court and retinue. And an army.

France, a semi-strong presidential republic, explicitly provides for new presidential elections a month after the office falls vacant.

Weak presidential republics (and constitutional monarchies) pin the symbolic continuity of the state above day-to-day politics, and most importantly provide straightforward mechanisms for governments to turn over when they lose the confidence of parliament and public.
posted by holgate at 8:28 PM on November 17, 2016 [6 favorites]

Headline on nbcnews.com: "Debating the use of a Muslim registry".
posted by Slothrup at 8:28 PM on November 17, 2016

a global multicultural "coexistence" movement
i'm in - imagine the potlucks!

"but the food's pretty good," has long been my reply whenever someone starts getting overly xenophobic toward a particular ethnic group.

So yeah --

IMAGINE THE POTLUCKS!!!

Let this be the rallying cry.
posted by philip-random at 8:29 PM on November 17, 2016 [1 favorite]

Am I the only one bothered by this broad application of the term "elite" that seems to encompass all liberals? In the reading I've done since the election I get the impression a lot of average-person liberals seem to think they're part of this liberal elite, but.. no.
posted by wondermouse at 8:30 PM on November 17, 2016 [10 favorites]

Headline on nbcnews.com: "Debating the use of a Muslim registry".

Super.

Future headline: Pundits debate whether crescent moon badge should be yellow or blue.
posted by Justinian at 8:31 PM on November 17, 2016 [14 favorites]

Or am I fooling myself?

Might be wishful thinking on my part, but I don't think you are. Campaigns and transitions are a great preview of how administrations will run. Trump is surrounding himself with a team ready to cut each others throats. Kushner on one side, Bannon on another, Pence on yet another. None of these guys are showing much talent or efficiency at the moment. Trump himself is a complete deadweight, slow on decisions with no ideas of his own. And no ability to keep his team from fighting.

I do think there's a chance they won't out Watergate Watergate. Simply because they can't stop fighting with each other, and Trump never gets around to making a decision to send in the plumbers or illegally fund the Contras, or whatever his version of those scandals will be. Reagan was an empty suit but had some people who were semi-decent at plotting. Nixon was quite smart and a constant plotter himself. Dubya wasn't the brightest, but had some loyal people with killer political instincts working for him. Trump's got none of those qualities or people. If he does precipitate a big scandal, it will be one of the dumbest and most obvious we've ever seen.
posted by honestcoyote at 8:32 PM on November 17, 2016 [10 favorites]

Speaking of do-overs, we have one. Coming up on December 19. Designed by the founders as the last ditch against incompetence and/or tyranny.

Fat chance of anything interesting happening that day, but still. We're supposed to put up with the potential of minority vote Presidents in exchange for the protections of the Electoral College. But, when we need it more than ever, it's probably just going to rubber stamp the vote.
posted by honestcoyote at 8:35 PM on November 17, 2016 [9 favorites]

Nah, they won't make people wear patches who are Other; they will do the inverse. The red MAGA hat will become required attire if you want to be considered the right kind of person.
posted by gatorae at 8:36 PM on November 17, 2016

> This ties in with the "head of state" question upthread, and is a reminder that the US Constitution doesn't have any provisions for "everybody in charge fucked up and needs to go", even if those who fucked up and need to go accept that they fucked up and want to go. The US president is essentially an elected 18th-century monarch with a personal court and retinue. And an army.

I have over the course of the last nine days gradually been coming around to the idea that one of the people we must blame for this catastrophe is none other than Alexander Hamilton, for saddling America with a quasi-monarch at the head of the executive branch.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 8:36 PM on November 17, 2016 [5 favorites]

honestcoyote If he does precipitate a big scandal, it will be one of the dumbest and most obvious we've ever seen.

The problem is they already are, and there's demonstrably no one with any clout to do shit about it.
posted by rp at 8:46 PM on November 17, 2016 [4 favorites]

There's already literally 1000 scandals around him that should've been disqualifying, prosecuted, or at least covered equal to the Clinton EMAILS. But IOKIYAR, and Trump is going to take that and run a kleptocracy with it. And Republicans won't do a damn thing about it because he's going to cut taxes and overturn Roe v. Wade, and that's all they care about.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:49 PM on November 17, 2016 [12 favorites]

Kushner on one side, Bannon on another, Pence on yet another

Really, seemed to me it was Kushner and Bannon against mainstream Republicans, and the mainstream guys all got purged. I wonder what happened to Giuliani though. His name isn't being thrown around much anymore. Bannon, Kushner, and Flynn are all frightening to me, and it was really weird that Ivanka was in the meeting with Abe.
posted by Golden Eternity at 8:50 PM on November 17, 2016 [2 favorites]

none other than Alexander Hamilton, for saddling America with a quasi-monarch at the head of the executive branch.

To be fair, it was probably the best available model in the constitutional shop at the time. The blame is squarely on a populace that treats that model as holy writ.

I was thinking about how the head-of-state function is carried out in Japan, with its constitution written under US occupation and supervision. The emperor is "the symbol of the State and of the unity of the people", with powers are strictly limited to enumerated formal mechanics of state: he isn't even the nominal head of the executive or the armed forces.
posted by holgate at 8:54 PM on November 17, 2016 [2 favorites]

There's already literally 1000 scandals around him that should've been disqualifying, prosecuted, or at least covered equal to the Clinton EMAILS.

The scandal Gish gallop is a deeply underrated tactic in politics: make sure you have enough scandals going on to prevent any one of them from gaining hold.

Even before the election, I found myself thinking that H. Clinton should have had her own sex scandal -- a story come out that she had a steamy, albeit relatively conventional affair with an of-age assistant (maybe in his thirties or so). If you wanted to make it juicier, make it clear that Bill both knew about it and encouraged it. Just enough to stop focusing on EMAILS for awhile.

Unrelatedly, I had to remove an earlier thread from my activity. We were all so hopeful then.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 8:56 PM on November 17, 2016 [8 favorites]

We write much better constitutions for other countries than our own.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:56 PM on November 17, 2016

John Kasich's chief strategist:

@JWGOP:
So, Russia Today and Breitbart have two of the three top jobs in the White House.......
posted by chris24 at 9:00 PM on November 17, 2016 [23 favorites]

Kushner on one side, Bannon on another, Pence on yet another

Kushner to the left of me
Bannon to the right
Here I am
Stuck in the middle with Pence
posted by Joey Michaels at 9:02 PM on November 17, 2016 [8 favorites]

The problem is they already are, and there's demonstrably no one with any clout to do shit about it.

I was thinking specifically of scandals he might commit once he's on the job, but you're completely correct that the existing scandals should have been disqualifying.
posted by honestcoyote at 9:06 PM on November 17, 2016

John Kasich's chief strategist:
@JWGOP:
So, Russia Today and Breitbart have two of the three top jobs in the White House.......

I had real, high hopes that the Kasich faction, no matter how much I despair about what's happened in Ohio in the last 15ish years, would have real traction, and that people would at least hear the desperate gasps of the old republican party and "vote their conscience."

At least my home county still went solid.
posted by rp at 9:09 PM on November 17, 2016 [5 favorites]

James Buchanan must be thrilled wherever he is to finally lose the title of worst president ever.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:09 PM on November 17, 2016 [14 favorites]

> Unrelatedly, I had to remove an earlier thread from my activity. We were all so hopeful then.

We thought we were sick of the election. Really, what we were sick of was having to think about the guy who is now President-Elect. And now that he's President-Elect, we've got to think about him all the time.

God, this is a nightmare.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:12 PM on November 17, 2016 [30 favorites]

Government Employees On Trump: "Everything. Is. Fucked."
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:13 PM on November 17, 2016 [9 favorites]

So the new National Security Advisor believes the fake news. So much so he tweets it out. TWO WEEKS AGO.

@GenFlynn:
U decide - NYPD Blows Whistle on New Hillary Emails: Money Laundering, Sex Crimes w Children, etc...MUST READ! http://truepundit.com/breaking-bombshell-nypd-blows-whistle-on-new-hillary-emails-money-laundering-sex-crimes-with-children-child-exploitation-pay-to-play-perjury/
posted by chris24 at 9:15 PM on November 17, 2016 [1 favorite]

I was looking forward to the end of 2016, now I fear we will think of it as the last good year.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:17 PM on November 17, 2016 [10 favorites]

Speaking of fake news:
Trump just took credit for stopping Ford from moving a plant to Mexico. But it wasn’t planning to.

Trump's going to maintain his base by being the only source of news they'll trust (well, Breitbart and Infowars too)
posted by airish at 9:17 PM on November 17, 2016 [4 favorites]

Per @ivancouronne pool report, Trump advance director told press Trump will embark on a "victory tour" of states he won

Someone on Team Trump Knows How to Manufacture Consent

I know this is happening in large part because Donald Trump has a desperate need for adulation. And yet it's brilliant, in a horrible way.

Trump is going to stand before those crowds of giddy white proletarians and the press is going to conclude that he really was the people's choice, even though he probably lost the popular vote by 2 million and has by far the lowest favorable rating of any recent president-elect. [...]

The press is skeptical of Trump, but the press is not skeptical of white proles. The press agrees that they're the real Americans.

And the Democratic Party, to judge from its post-election hand-wringing, agrees as well, which is why concentrating the tour on swing states is a nastily brilliant idea. It will set off yet another round of counterproductive Democratic self-criticism.

posted by tonycpsu at 9:18 PM on November 17, 2016 [10 favorites]

The media needs to push the image that the president-to-be is nothing but a puppet - he hated being called that in the debate - and that he'll sign whatever other people put in front of him, that he won't even pretend to read it.

They need to ask him policy details, and when he alludes to Bannon or Guiliani or Pence's plans, they need to say, "oh, so he's the one really in charge of that part? Okay; I'll just talk to him next time," with the subtext, stated or implied, that "we'll talk to you when we need feelgood speeches and talk to the guys with plans when we need to know how the country's being run."

Hammer this early and often. He need to be called ignorant, a figurehead, and "everyone's puppet" where half a dozen figures fight over who controls the strings. (Some political cartoonist needs to draw that.)

Because gods help us, our best plan through is if his ego activates and he actually tries to lead, instead of deciding it's all too confusing and handing the controls off to someone else while he retains full official authority and ability to be impeached - which won't harm them a bit.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 9:28 PM on November 17, 2016 [5 favorites]

Government Employees On Trump: "Everything. Is. Fucked."

Oh, come on. Obvious Democratic propaganda. Who are you going to trust, a successful efficient businessman who won an election with pennies on the dollar, or freeloading government bureaucrats that just want to lazily dine on the public largesse without contributing anything?

[fake, I hope]
posted by wildblueyonder at 9:32 PM on November 17, 2016

Just out of curiosity, what happens if Bernie Sanders goes on a big tour of major cities and has lots of (white) young people cheering for him at the same time Trump takes his victory lap?

It's not, you know, really a good idea, but if he's going to pretend like the campaign isn't over, maybe we should do the same.
posted by zachlipton at 9:34 PM on November 17, 2016 [2 favorites]

Charlie Stross: Playtime is over

What happened last week is not just about America. It was one move—a very significant one, bishop-takes-queen maybe—in a long-drawn-out geopolitical chess game. It's being fought around the world: Brexit was one move, the election and massacres of Dutarte in the Philippines were another, the post-coup crackdown in Turkey is a third. The possible election of Marine Le Pen (a no-shit out-of-the-closet fascist) as President of France next year is more of this stuff. The eldritch knot of connections between Turkey and Saudi Arabia and Da'esh in the wreckage of Syria is icing on top. It's happening all over and I no longer think this is a coincidence. [...]

I don't want to sound like a warmed-over cold warrior or a swivel-eyed conspiracy theorist. However, the authoritarian faction currently ascendent in Putin's Russia seem to be running their country by this book. Their leaders remember how the KGB (newly reformed last month) handled black propaganda and disinformation, and they have people who know how new media work and who are updating the old time Moscow rules for a new century. Trump's Russian connections aren't an accident—they may be the most important thing about him, and Russia's sponsorship of extreme right neo-fascist movements throughout Europe is an alarming part of the picture. China isn't helping, either: they're backing authoritarian regimes wherever they seem useful, for the same reason the US State Department under Henry Kissinger backed fascists throughout central and south America in the 1970s—it took a generation to fix the damage from Operation Condor, and that was local (at least, confined to a single continent).

Trying to defeat this kind of attack through grass-roots action at local level ... well, it's not useless, it's brave and it's good, but it's also Quixotic. With hindsight, the period from December 26th, 1991 to September 11th, 2001, wasn't the end of history; it was the Weimar Republic repeating itself, and now we're in the dirty thirties. It's going to take more than local action if we're to climb out of the mass grave the fascists have been digging for us these past decades. It's going to take international solidarity and a coherent global movement and policies and structures I can barely envisage if we're going to rebuild the framework of shared progressive values that have been so fatally undermined.

posted by tonycpsu at 9:34 PM on November 17, 2016 [60 favorites]

It will keep his "movement" going. Don't be surprised if he starts enlisting people to one cause or another. The Trump Youth is probably not far away.

How did racists vote for Obama and then Trump?

Bolan, who is white, thought it was “really cool” to have a black president. But in the end, she thought “Obama cared more about black people.” Democratic politicians have too often tried to make her “ashamed to be white,” she said.

@GenFlynn: Fear of Muslims is RATIONAL: please forward this to others: the truth fears no questions... (link to youtube video)

@GenFlynn: In next 24 hours, I dare Arab & Persian world "leaders" to step up to the plate and declare their Islamic ideology sick and must B healed.
posted by Golden Eternity at 9:34 PM on November 17, 2016 [4 favorites]

Jeff Sessions Was Deemed Too Racist To Be A Federal Judge. He Might Become Trump’s Attorney General.
posted by Golden Eternity at 9:39 PM on November 17, 2016 [2 favorites]

All my Trump supporter Facebook friends are posting a Breitbart article: Jon Stewart Calls Out Left’s Hypocrisy of Labeling All Trump Voters ‘Racist’ While Defending Muslims.

Thanks Jon. Helluva job.
posted by chris24 at 9:46 PM on November 17, 2016 [18 favorites]

Today in fake news...

A few days before the election, Flynn shared a "false and rather unhinged" TruePundit.com story about Anthony Weiner. "You decide," Flynn wrote, garnering 7,000 retweets. As Tapper said: "General Flynn, the former head of the Defense Intelligence Agency, wouldn't tweet it if it weren't true, right? False."
...
"Flynn facts"

Related: In August the WashPost reported that "former subordinates at the DIA said Flynn was so prone to dubious pronouncements that senior aides coined a term — 'Flynn facts' — for assertions that seemed questionable or inaccurate."
...
Remnick described Obama and his political director Davis Simas on the way to a Clinton rally in Charlotte, talking "almost obsessively about an article in BuzzFeed that described how the Macedonian town of Veles had experienced a 'digital gold rush' when a small group of young people there published more than a hundred pro-Trump Web sites, with hundreds of thousands of Facebook followers." (Craig Silverman's impact in action!)

Obama later told Remnick: The new media ecosystem "means everything is true and nothing is true. An explanation of climate change from a Nobel Prize-winning physicist looks exactly the same on your Facebook page as the denial of climate change by somebody on the Koch brothers' payroll. And the capacity to disseminate misinformation, wild conspiracy theories, to paint the opposition in wildly negative light without any rebuttal—that has accelerated in ways that much more sharply polarize the electorate and make it very difficult to have a common conversation."

I wonder how many tech people out there are already forming up "fake news filter" startups....
posted by Golden Eternity at 9:56 PM on November 17, 2016 [2 favorites]

I love cstross, and I really dug "A different cluetrain" and thought it spot-on, but I agree with the Twitter comment that said he's giving Russia too much credit. I don't think the Russian ruling class has much love for America, but ascribing all of this as following Dugin's book in some sort of mad revanchism and revengeance that's gone unnoticed until- 2008? the invasion of Georgia? More recently in the Crimea? Russian support for far right movements is adding fire to already-lit Molotov cocktails. Explosives that we in the West concocted ourselves, or our ruling class did- income inequality, and unresolved ethnic conflict, and draining military adventurism and ever-pervasive surveillance. We created those ourselves, or allowed it to happen. The Kremlin is nudging us forward, but we walked to this precipice ourselves. I don't think it's one huge darkly ironic bizarro Cold War situation where we're the ones being Finlandized by Ian Fleming villains who want us to atone for the sins of the father.
posted by Apocryphon at 9:59 PM on November 17, 2016 [4 favorites]

I kind of feel like idiot America is just going to assume that any cringe he's accused of is mainstream conspiracy against their god-emperor.
posted by Joey Michaels at 10:02 PM on November 17, 2016

Regarding Trump tweeting falsely about stoping the Ford plant from going to Mexico, the tweetstorm that starts here is good and important.

@jessesingal:
1/ Something really really scary appeared to have just happened and I hope people understand why it matters amidst all the other chaos.
posted by chris24 at 10:03 PM on November 17, 2016 [12 favorites]

I think there is some convergence between existing trends and Russian interests. It benefits Russia specifically to encourage those trends, which might create the appearance they have more responsibility for them than they do.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 10:04 PM on November 17, 2016 [3 favorites]

Which is exacerbated by the ideological developments of Post-Soviet Russia, which are themselves consequences of those same global socio-economic trends. Hrm.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 10:07 PM on November 17, 2016 [1 favorite]

How... how much contribution did the administrations of Bush the elder and Bill Clinton have in influencing the disastrous economic situation in Russia of the '90s?
posted by Apocryphon at 10:11 PM on November 17, 2016 [3 favorites]

What I really want to know is not why Clapper is stepping down, but whether he'll be living in the US this time next year.
posted by zachlipton at 10:20 PM on November 17, 2016 [6 favorites]

The subtext of the whole Ford kerfuffle is that Bill Ford placated the resident-elect as one would a sulky and obstreperous child. Which is a sign that Bill Ford is fairly adept at being the chairman of Ford, but not a good sign for things to come, because (per Josh Marshall) there are going to be lots of people in high places outside govt. who tell the malevolent manchild something approaching what he wants to hear and the malevolent manchild will take from it what he cares to hear. If that happens in govt then we're fucked.

Also, god forbid what happens if the tweeterphone is on during market hours.

(The long-term plans for the KY plant were apparently to increase production of the Escape because of high customer demand. They'll keep the Lincoln line and probably have to make less of 'em.)

how much contribution did the administrations of Bush the elder and Bill Clinton have in influencing the disastrous economic situation in Russia of the '90s?

Along with Yeltsin's vodka habit. Post-USSR US policy feels a lot like an ill-fated pause for breath. That's also when everybody forgot about Afghanistan.
posted by holgate at 10:53 PM on November 17, 2016 [5 favorites]

I wanna know what phone he uses, who his service provider is, and what other tools he uses to keep his comms to himself.
posted by notyou at 10:54 PM on November 17, 2016 [2 favorites]

Well worth reading. Obama probably knows better than anyone how Hillary lost

OBAMA RECKONS WITH A TRUMP PRESIDENCY - Inside a stunned White House, the President considers his legacy and America’s future - David Remnick

“There are certain things we know,” he said. “We know that when there is a conversation about the police and African-Americans, and conflict between those two, everybody goes to their respective corners. That is an area that just triggers the deepest stereotypes and assumptions—on both sides. The biggest drop that I had in my poll numbers in my first six months had nothing to do with the economy. It was ‘the beer summit.’ ”

posted by Golden Eternity at 10:57 PM on November 17, 2016 [19 favorites]

Yes, I second (third, fourth, whatever) the recommendation of that New Yorker article.
posted by Joe in Australia at 11:06 PM on November 17, 2016 [8 favorites]

Ivanka Trump sits in on meeting with Japanese prime minister

President-elect Donald Trump's daughter Ivanka sat in on his first face-to-face meeting with a foreign leader, Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe, according to a photo of the impromptu Trump Tower summit released by the Japanese government.

Her inclusion comes as Trump faces questions about how he plans to provide assurances that his vast business empire will be walled off from his official duties in the White House. Ivanka and her husband, Jared Kushner, along with Trump's adult sons, Donald Jr. and Eric, played major roles in his campaign and have all been named to the executive committee of his transition team.

This article has the photo.
posted by zachlipton at 11:13 PM on November 17, 2016 [3 favorites]

The Russian ... thing ... is fascinating, but ... If we're going to posit a mastermind behind current events, then it has to be Osama bin Laden. 9/11 introduced all kinds of, well, police state tactics that reinforced a narrative of fear while weakening the institutions of (international) law. As a direct result we got two largely failed wars and, at small remove, several mostly failed revolutions which led directly to the current catastrophe in Syria and the ensuing refugee crisis, which further fanned the anti-immigration rhetoric and further eviscerated basic civil rights. In the meantime also the internet came of age, and with it surveillance agencies as well as notions of popular (populist?) news gathering and the removal of gatekeepers. Then there was a financial crisis. And yes, there is also a growing antagonism between Russia and the US, and I'm sure the Russian spooks are very adept at their work -- Russia has always been great at human intelligence. But overall it seems easier to explain the idea that Putin is behind everything by the American tendency to war.
posted by dmh at 11:32 PM on November 17, 2016 [2 favorites]

@PatrickRuffini: Updated national swing map. Size of the bubbles is raw votes swung. Color is direction.
posted by Golden Eternity at 11:43 PM on November 17, 2016 [3 favorites]

How... how much contribution did the administrations of Bush the elder and Bill Clinton have in influencing the disastrous economic situation in Russia of the '90s?

Quite a bit actually. American aid to the Soviet Union was made contingent upon an IMF study of the Soviet economy by George HW Bush at the G-7 Summit in 1990, and of course in 1990 the IMF study was going to be the same recommendation they'd been making all decade, "structural adjustment", which amounted to mass privatization and a break with the slow reforms of Gorbachev.

The "technical advice" given to the Soviet and then Russian government was delivered through the Harvard Institute for International Development at the behest of USAID. It was a glorious clusterfuck. One of the clusterfuckers was a guy named Larry Summers, who you might recognize.

Here's a good article in the Nation.

tl;dr = The new economic hotness of the eighties and nineties was that capitalism was natural and all you really had to do to "fix" a dysfunctional economy was reset it to a natural state via "shock therapy" and get rid of all that nasty statism and regulation and welfare and such. American academics like Jeffrey Sachs and Larry Summers advised the Russian government on how to do this. Instead of birthing a new Jeffersonian capitalist democracy in Russia, it led to Oligarchy and Kleptocracy -- one of the components of privatization was a voucher plan, where people buy into various industries and enterprises as owners, except most of those vouchers were bought up from the public by people with access to money (organized crime and government officials) because the public needed to be able to buy like, food and medicine and clothing and stuff, and being part-owner of a Soviet era factory isn't very filling.

A few years ago a study in The Lancet on post-Soviet life expectancy found that the various privatization schemes caused the life expectancy of Russian men to drop from the high sixties to the high fifties since the collapse of the Soviet Union.

It's actually a pretty tragic story.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 11:47 PM on November 17, 2016 [30 favorites]

I know I'm not the first one even in this thread but the day after the election I independently came up with Kanye West, and then I googled it and everybody else was saying Kanye West should run. And you know what? That still feels like it might work.

I think that people online were saying that because he mentioned doing so at the last big MTV awards show. It seemed like a joke at the time, but Trump's election recontextualized matters.

That said, I think that the most realistic new celebrity candidate for 2020 is The Rock. He is as smooth verbally as Obama, white people like him more than they like Hillary generally, he even has a large contingent of redneck fans from back in his days as a wrestler, and being black certainly can't hurt minority turnout.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/films/2016/11/15/dwayne-johnson-for-president-2020---can-you-smell-what-the-rock/
posted by bootlegpop at 11:59 PM on November 17, 2016 [3 favorites]

I meant, if one was to go full on with the Russian vendetta theory, Trump has just politically decapitated both American families who had members in charge during the tumultuous '90s that devastated Russia. And to add further insult, Trump also defamed notoriously Russophobic John McCain in front of the entire nation.
posted by Apocryphon at 11:59 PM on November 17, 2016 [2 favorites]

I tend to agree with cstross. I think criticisms here are largely straw men or whatever, as I think his shot at Fukuyama is a bit of a straw man (though I don't agree with "the end of history"). For one thing I think Dugin and Putin are much more focused on their vision of the future than vengence for the cold war. And it is not just in Europe that this trend away from liberalism towards authoritarianism and fascism is happening, in the middle east there is a big confrontation shaping up between various authoritarians/ethnic nationalists and Islamists who perhaps could be considered Sunni and Shia nationalists. Many Kurds in Iraq tend to favor ethnic nationalism with a strong-man leader. Liberal democracy is not really taking off in Asia either. I think a conflict is shaping up between globalist, multi-cultural liberalism and ethnic and other nationalisms. And the fascists may have just won all of the nukes. Sadly the left is still stuck on somewhat anachronistic categories like "capitalism" and social class and without any real solutions of their own or popular support have decided liberals are the biggest enemy.
posted by Golden Eternity at 12:13 AM on November 18, 2016 [3 favorites]

@jessesingal:
1/ Something really really scary appeared to have just happened

I think that calling this post-information is being a little trendy. This is nothing new, just of gained propaganda, of which Russia is a master. The Fearless Leader makes a pronouncement, and the propaganda organs rush to repeat it. Social media just makes it easier, that's all.

And I'd anyone wants to know how Trump will deal with the oncoming failures? This is how. There will be no failures, just glorious success.
posted by happyroach at 12:14 AM on November 18, 2016 [2 favorites]

@PatrickRuffini: Updated national swing map. Size of the bubbles is raw votes swung. Color is direction.

The good news is that there is a ton of red in the places where population is shrinking and a ton of blue in places where the population is growing. The bad news is everything else.
posted by Justinian at 12:14 AM on November 18, 2016 [3 favorites]

Fareed Zakaria was warning about illiberal democracy almost exactly twenty years ago. I guess we're seeing the snowball start to avalanche now.

I think a conflict is shaping up between globalist, multi-cultural liberalism and ethnic and other nationalisms. And the fascists may have just won all of the nukes.

For the moment, it appears that the various strongmen and national populists are curiously congratulating each other on having prevailed over the liberal democratic elements in each respective country, as opposed to rattling sabers at each other, as nationalists usually do. This is, of course, a temporary respite.

Sadly the left us still stuck on somewhat anachronistic categories like "capitalism" and social class and without any real solutions or popular support have decided liberals are the biggest enemy.

This happened last time around, too.
posted by Apocryphon at 12:24 AM on November 18, 2016 [4 favorites]

Has anyone read this Slate Star Codex article that's been going around twitter? There seems to be a lot of outcry, but not a lot of rebuttal. Anyone here have any thoughts?
posted by R.F.Simpson at 12:30 AM on November 18, 2016 [3 favorites]

liberals are the biggest enemy

The swing towards authoritarianism is extremely worrying, but over the past decade and a half the ostensibly liberal West has been on a veritable killing spree. I don't have the numbers handy (do we even know?) but I wouldn't be surprised if the US alone is still today killing more people than any other country in the world. That's just impossible to justify if human rights are supposed to mean anything. Clearly authoritarianism is very dangerous but us liberals (if that's what we are) have also been dangerous.
posted by dmh at 12:32 AM on November 18, 2016 [2 favorites]

Sadly the left is still stuck on somewhat anachronistic categories like "capitalism" and social class and without any real solutions of their own or popular support have decided liberals are the biggest enemy.

I don't think Trump sees capitalism as an anachronism. 'Social class' is more of a verifiable scientific fact than 'race.'

And if this was a Brexit thread, it would be the time when I mention that despite voting Leave, the UK now also has the biggest openly declared socialist party in Europe and Corbyn speaks to crowds of thousands of stoked activists wherever he goes...
posted by Coda Tronca at 12:32 AM on November 18, 2016 [1 favorite]

Yes. Trump also resembles Corbyn in the way he's completely unprepared for office and the chaotic approach to appointments. They're very similar phenomena in a lot of ways.
posted by Grangousier at 12:57 AM on November 18, 2016

I guess what I meant by that is Marx's conception of capitalism are probably out-dated and dubious and his solutions even more so.
posted by Golden Eternity at 1:10 AM on November 18, 2016

@NavyvetPC: @McFaul I worked under Flynn at the DIAC and I feel for anyone working for him in the WH.

Became obvious he believed in his "own facts" but even after he "retired" didn't see this coming. It's distressing to see.
posted by Golden Eternity at 1:14 AM on November 18, 2016

Grangousier, even the British corporate media has abandoned trying to smear Corbyn as similar to Trump.
posted by Coda Tronca at 1:16 AM on November 18, 2016 [1 favorite]

One thing I hear alot is how what Putin really wants is to have another Yalta conference where he, Trump, and Xi Jinping decide how to divide up the world between themselves.
posted by Golden Eternity at 1:19 AM on November 18, 2016

RE the Slatestarcodex article, the first claim was that Trump was not "openly racist," which it "proves" by citing his official statements about how great various minorities are. This is ignoring the actual racist statements Trump made about Mexicans, Jews, Muslims, etc. etc. that were fueling the "openly racist" claims. The author of the article pretends that everyone who called Trump "openly racist" was simply assuming he was because he was Republican and that he was lying in his praise of minorities.

The next claim was that Trump could not be getting "a lot of support" from the KKK and various alt-right cesspits because those groups are numerically small. This is pure balderdash, based on apparently willful misinterpretation of words. The article poses that small groups cannot be "a lot" of Trump's larger group of supporters. What most people mean by "a lot of support" is that the white supremacists *are super jazzed about Trump and excited to vote for him*, which is definitely something that was not the case for previous Republican nominees, however shrilly they blew the dogwhistles.

This was when I rolled my eyes and gave up on the article. The author clearly wants to be smarter than everyone else and is hoping that playing the cup-and-balls game with definitions will conceal the fact that they are not.
posted by Scattercat at 1:25 AM on November 18, 2016 [12 favorites]

Bad news, Kanye fans.
posted by rory at 2:38 AM on November 18, 2016 [1 favorite]

Kanye trolled us good!
posted by Coda Tronca at 2:48 AM on November 18, 2016 [3 favorites]

Scott Alexander's whole schtick is that he's a neoreactionary who thinks that if he just denies that he is everybody will agree that he's a liberal. He's an awful piece of shit who has been given way more leeway on this than any human being deserves and when you see "Scott Alexander" or "SlateStarCodex" your first thought should be "what is that fucking Nazi up to now?"
posted by Pope Guilty at 3:45 AM on November 18, 2016 [12 favorites]

I confess to not having the statistical chops to assess the "Trump gained more minority votes" bit at the beginning with the charts and such, but I believe most such claims have previously been dismissed as statistical artifacts of e.g. more black people stayed home this election on the Dem side, throwing the proportions off. Given the other jiggery-pokery on display in what I read, I would also not be surprised if "Trump increased the Republican share of minority voters" means "in absolute numbers" which is unsurprising given the (IIRC) near-record turnout this election.

Basically the intellectual dishonesty in the first two main argument segments convinced me that the article was nonsense and I don't have the energy to investigate further.
posted by Scattercat at 4:06 AM on November 18, 2016 [1 favorite]

Well isn't Michael Flynn your new National Security Advisor a piece of shit.
I believe that the way we did interrogation operations post-Abu Ghraib worked very effectively,
posted by adamvasco at 4:10 AM on November 18, 2016

CBS: Sources report that Trump has offered Sen. Jeff Sessions (R-AL) the Attorney General position.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:21 AM on November 18, 2016 [1 favorite]

CBS: Sources report that Trump has offered Sen. Jeff Sessions (R-AL) the Attorney General position.

AAAHHHHHH I'M BLIND I'M.....oh wait.

*removes JooJanta 200s*

*looks around*

*puts them back on*
posted by snuffleupagus at 4:31 AM on November 18, 2016 [3 favorites]

Kanye trolled us good!

2005: "George Bush doesn't care about black people."
2016: "Neither do I."
posted by uncleozzy at 4:37 AM on November 18, 2016 [21 favorites]

This gets my goat. You wanna talk about "public servants," that's like a firefighter, the county clerk, or the conductor on the subway. Senators, presidents, kings, MPs, emperors, emirs - they do not SERVE, they RULE. Big fuckin' difference.

It gets my goat too, but that particular problem is baked into the structure of the role and the US government (and to some extent representative government in general), not about who does the job. Putting unqualified amateur idiots in those roles does nothing to fix the power problem.

As long as you have laws, you are going to need someone to create, pass, and uphold them and uphold them. As long as you have nation states, you are going to need diplomats. Etc. etc. The fact that some service jobs also come along with outsized, problematic power doesn't negate the fact that the public does indeed need that type of work done, just like trash removal, firefighting, and streetcleaning.
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:39 AM on November 18, 2016 [2 favorites]

Bolan, who is white, thought it was “really cool” to have a black president. But in the end, she thought “Obama cared more about black people.” Democratic politicians have too often tried to make her “ashamed to be white,” she said.


Dingdingding

I have been waiting for someone to notice that the perception of Obama's coolness is partially due to racism (black guys are cool, when they are just being fun and hip and don't act too black) and that brand of racism cuts both ways. A lot of racists love Obama for the same reason they love Will Smith--he's nonthreatening to their whiteness, he's glamorous, his wife is glamorous, he's down with what the kids are down with. It ain't his politics or his intelligence or experience, it's that he's a cool cat (lol he's really not, but close enough). Take away that cool factor and add in BLM making people feel that maybe he is actually threatening their whiteness, and someone with the same politics and intelligence and even more experience doesn't get those votes, instead they go to the cult of personality on the other side.
posted by soren_lorensen at 4:46 AM on November 18, 2016 [38 favorites]

The clown car is filling up. Jeff Sessions Was Deemed Too Racist To Be A Federal Judge
posted by adamvasco at 4:50 AM on November 18, 2016 [10 favorites]

The new normal: president-elect Trump to UK prime minister Mrs May: “If you travel to the US you should let me know.”

So he can give her a discount at a Trump hotel?
posted by Mister Bijou at 5:14 AM on November 18, 2016 [4 favorites]

So he can take her furniture shopping I bet.
posted by ian1977 at 5:16 AM on November 18, 2016 [11 favorites]

The second panel in this strip seems prescient.
posted by pxe2000 at 5:17 AM on November 18, 2016 [1 favorite]

Has anyone read this Slate Star Codex article that's been going around twitter?

I doubt that anyone has, just forwarding it. Because it's really long, and seemed like a lot of rambling razzle dazzle bullshit, like it was made to be linked. I only skimmed it though since it didn't seem worth the investment.
posted by bongo_x at 5:24 AM on November 18, 2016 [2 favorites]

All the talk of the Trump as abuser, what about on the larger scale? The post election analysis has been depressing. They act horrible, we say "What did we do wrong to make them not like us, how can we change?"

Half the country are stupid people with dubious morals. There's your post election analysis. The rest is denial, appeasement, and self blaming.
posted by bongo_x at 5:32 AM on November 18, 2016 [14 favorites]

Trump offered CIA Director position to Kansas Rep. Mike Pompeo, who has accepted.
posted by gatorae at 5:33 AM on November 18, 2016

Government Employees On Trump: "Everything. Is. Fucked."
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:13 AM on November 18

Powerful read thank you for posting it. I'm forwarding it to other people.


RE the Slatestarcodex article[...]]
This was when I rolled my eyes and gave up on the article.

Yep pretty much my reaction as well. When the article starts out trying to prove that there is no evidence that Trump is a racist but fails to mention that he was endorsed by the KKK and Steve Bannon is his chief council-- then I have no need to read further.

So we have a documented racist as AG. What a great way to start the morning. Also, it does look like the Presidency is going to be a triumvirate: DJT, Jared, & Ivanka. Pretty amazing. There doesn't seem like any way of stopping this from happening. In the past, some First Ladies have wielded unusual powers, such as Nancy during Ronald's last years, but sharing responsibilities with children is an outlier. Of course most people elected to the Presidency actually want the job. I'm finding it hard to get outraged by this-- Jared is probably a scheming little weasel who is taking advantage of a power vacuum but at least he isn't Don, Jr. or Eric.

I'm tired. Is anybody else tired?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:33 AM on November 18, 2016 [6 favorites]

Mike Pompeo is a man who said Muslim leaders who fail to denounce acts of terrorism done in the name of Islam are "potentially complicit" in the attacks.
posted by chris24 at 5:33 AM on November 18, 2016 [1 favorite]

Pompeo is a pretty clear sign that Trump wants to go forward with torture and illegal detention.
posted by dis_integration at 5:38 AM on November 18, 2016 [9 favorites]

Meet new CIA director Mike Pompeo and his on record stance
posted by adamvasco at 5:40 AM on November 18, 2016

How does Sen. Sessions seat in the Senate get filled? Governor appointee or special election?
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 5:41 AM on November 18, 2016

Hatred of Muslims is, so far, the most common thread between the appointments, so that registry? It's probably coming. Immigration from anywhere that isn't majority white? Probably going.
posted by gusottertrout at 5:42 AM on November 18, 2016 [3 favorites]

NYTimes As Trump Embraces Term Limits, Allies in Congress Pull Away

Did this article even have to be written? Who thought for one millisecond that congress was going to vote to fire itself? I mean you could write a whole series of articles like this:

Will Congress vote to cut its own salary?
Will Congress vote to cut its own healthcare and benefits?
Will Congress vote to prohibit lobbying after leaving office?

No, no, and no.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:42 AM on November 18, 2016 [4 favorites]

The new normal: president-elect Trump to UK prime minister Mrs May: “If you travel to the US you should let me know.”

So he can give her a discount at a Trump hotel?

The line in that article about officials joking about ennobling Trump make me think we missed a trick.

I bet if the UK had taken one for the team and just given him a Peerage, or hell even just a Knighthood or something, his ego would have been sufficiently puffed and he might not have bothered to run for President.

Plus, I don't think you can run for President while holding a foreign title, and I can't see Trump wanting to give up the change to be called Lord Trump of Whateverthefuckingshire.

We could have stopped all this.
posted by generichuman at 5:44 AM on November 18, 2016 [8 favorites]

How does Sen. Sessions seat in the Senate get filled? Governor appointee or special election?

Both. The Governor can appoint an immediate replacement but must also schedule a special election:

On such a day as the governor may direct, unless vacancy occurs between 2 and 4 months before the next regularly-scheduled general election, in which case it is held at that election. If vacancy occurs within 60 days of the next regularly-scheduled general election, a special election must be held on the first Tuesday after 60 days have elapsed since the vacancy occurred.

posted by Etrigan at 5:45 AM on November 18, 2016

Did this article even have to be written? Who thought for one millisecond that congress was going to vote to fire itself?

Doesn't matter if they go for it, it's a swamp draining symbol. People don't like congress, so Trump looks better by talking about stuff like this even if it goes nowhere and his team knows it. I mean what does he care one way or the other if it happens? He's got his gig.
posted by gusottertrout at 5:46 AM on November 18, 2016 [1 favorite]

BBC radio now soberly discussing 'Is Trump Caligula or Nero?'. Conclusion - hell yeah. "We'll be keeping you posted on whether the transition team has any equine transition picks."
posted by Devonian at 5:46 AM on November 18, 2016 [12 favorites]

Hatred of Muslims is, so far, the most common thread between the appointments, so that registry? It's probably coming. Immigration from anywhere that isn't majority white? Probably going.

"Oh, he's just saying virulently racist, xenophobic, bellicose things to get elected. He doesn't really MEAN them."

When people show you who they are, believe it.
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:46 AM on November 18, 2016 [8 favorites]

AG is subject to Senate confirmation. Buckle up....
posted by snuffleupagus at 5:49 AM on November 18, 2016

Raw Story (Yeah I know, outrage filter but WTF) ‘This is our moment’: Trump’s win emboldens activist behind effort to ‘make rape legal’

The spokesperson for a group which advocates for “legal” rape praised the election of Donald Trump for legitimizing the “masculine behaviours that were previously labelled sexist and misogynist.”

In a post on his website, self-styled “pick up artist” Daryush “Roosh V” Valizadeh suggested that Trump’s election had made it acceptable to call women “fat pigs.”

Valizadeh, who has called to “make rape legal” on private property, interpreted the decision of the American people to mean “that you can exercise your free speech, your opinions, and your desire to flirt with attractive women without having to obey a speech police force.”[...]

While I do have minor concerns on the influence of his feminist-minded daughter, Ivanka, Trump will not continue the attack on men that has been institutionalized since the sexual revolution and accelerated during the eight years of Obama. Because our current cultural dystopia is the result of intense long-term manipulation, it is more than enough for Trump to simply not touch the gender issue to allow the culture to return to a more patriarchal order. Stop feeding the rot and it will die off, allowing biology to naturally reassert itself.

Lovely. So Ivanka is the only thing standing in the way of men asserting their right to dominate women.

This is not normal.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:51 AM on November 18, 2016 [22 favorites]

How does Sen. Sessions seat in the Senate get filled? Governor appointee or special election?

Temporary gubernatorial appointment, then special election (source)
posted by dis_integration at 5:51 AM on November 18, 2016

My prediction: the Democrats, having learned literally nothing from the last eight years, confirm virtually all of Trump's appointments and go along like good little soldiers, insisting that it would be wrong to not reward McConnell and Ryan for their years of refusing to allow Obama to govern.
posted by Pope Guilty at 5:53 AM on November 18, 2016 [23 favorites]

I'm guessing Trump is going to be all in on destroying terrorists, as he sees them, and living in a country that he believes is a base for that is going to be the Hell on Earth. He'll give permission to do things even Bush didn't dream of since Trump has no base of what's acceptable other than his own feelings. We can probably expect then a big increase in terrorism as the effect of Trump's lack of discipline and empathy become felt in different regions. I suspect the 9/11 tower attacks really did mean something to him. I mean he may not give a damn about other people, but he does care about architecture.
posted by gusottertrout at 5:54 AM on November 18, 2016 [1 favorite]

I'm tired. Is anybody else tired?

Only four more years
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:58 AM on November 18, 2016 [9 favorites]

Every single one of these headlines is completely wrong, easily fact checked, and peddling a fake news story spread by the president-elect.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:59 AM on November 18, 2016 [6 favorites]

WaPo Will Trump really purge Obama’s generals?

Throughout his campaign, Donald Trump promised to quickly get rid of the top level of senior military officers serving in uniform. But if Trump actually follows through on his plan to purge President Obama’s generals as his first order of business, he could provoke a crisis in civil-military relations at the very beginning of his presidency.[...]

Traditionally, presidents have felt free to appoint three- and four-star generals they are comfortable with, but they wait until those officers’ terms in their posts expire. Also, presidents don’t typically interfere in the selection of generals at the lower, one- and two-star levels. What Trump is proposing, an immediate and thorough housecleaning, could provoke pushback from the military and accusations of political interference from the public.[...]
“That will have incredible consequences for civil-military relations if Trump does this in the way he suggested he would during the campaign,” Schulman said.

Fueling concerns are reports that former Defense Intelligence Agency director Lt. Gen. Mike Flynn is Trump’s leading candidate for national security adviser. Flynn was purged himself in 2014 by his superiors in the military intelligence community. He clashed with two Obama appointees, Undersecretary of Defense for Intelligence Michael Vickers and Director of National Intelligence James Clapper, over whether the war against Islamic extremism was going as well as the Obama White House claimed. Just before he stepped down, he said publicly that the U.S. was not safer from terrorism than before 9/11 and that al-Qaeda was “not on the run,” directly contradicting Obama.

posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:00 AM on November 18, 2016 [1 favorite]

Baratunde Thurston: Empathy isn't a favor I owe white Trump voters. It has to go both ways.
posted by TwoStride at 6:05 AM on November 18, 2016 [15 favorites]

The Democrats’ Craven Response to Donald Trump By prematurely offering to work with Trump before he has shown even the slightest bit of contrition—before he has even filled out his sure-to-be controversial cabinet—congressional Democrats are hollowing out the argument they made for months. He is unfit for office, and that is precisely the argument that needs to be made—now more than ever. Gallup’s first favorability ratings for our new president-elect are far and away the worst in the firm’s history. It is up to Trump to prove to us that he is able to lead. We shouldn’t make it easy for him.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:14 AM on November 18, 2016 [21 favorites]

NYTimes Donald Trump’s Son-in-Law, Jared Kushner, Tests Legal Path to White House Job

WASHINGTON — Jared Kushner, the son-in-law of President-elect Donald J. Trump, has spoken to a lawyer about the possibility of joining the new administration, a move that could violate federal anti-nepotism law and risk legal challenges and political backlash[...]

Mr. Trump is urging his son-in-law to join him in the White House, according to one of the people briefed. The president-elect’s sentiment is shared by Stephen K. Bannon, the chief strategist for the White House, and Reince Priebus, who was named chief of staff. Mr. Kushner accompanied Mr. Trump to the White House on Thursday, when the president-elect held his first in-person meeting with President Obama[...]

Mr. Kushner has consulted with at least one lawyer and believes that by forgoing a salary and putting his investment fund, his real estate holdings and The New York Observer into a blind trust, he would not be bound by federal nepotism rules, according to one of the people briefed.

Ethics lawyers in both parties said that such an arrangement would violate a federal statute designed to prevent family ties from influencing the functioning of the United States government. Under a 1967 law enacted after John F. Kennedy installed his brother, Robert F. Kennedy, as attorney general, no public official can hire a family member — including one related by marriage — to an agency or office over which he has authority. A separate statute also makes it a crime, punishable by a fine and up to two years of prison time, for government employees to accept voluntary services that are not authorized by law, except in emergency situations.

[my bold]

It is beginning to feel like Trump is starting multiple brush fires in order to burn everything down and we are running around trying to figure out how to stamp each fire out.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:17 AM on November 18, 2016 [35 favorites]

this is fine
posted by entropicamericana at 6:20 AM on November 18, 2016 [12 favorites]

The clown car is filling up. Jeff Sessions Was Deemed Too Racist To Be A Federal Judge

Sarah Wildman: Closed Sessions

Sessions was U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of Alabama. The year before his nomination to federal court, he had unsuccessfully prosecuted three civil rights workers--including Albert Turner, a former aide to Martin Luther King Jr.--on a tenuous case of voter fraud. The three had been working in the "Black Belt" counties of Alabama, which, after years of voting white, had begun to swing toward black candidates as voter registration drives brought in more black voters. Sessions's focus on these counties to the exclusion of others caused an uproar among civil rights leaders, especially after hours of interrogating black absentee voters produced only 14 allegedly tampered ballots out of more than 1.7 million cast in the state in the 1984 election. The activists, known as the Marion Three, were acquitted in four hours and became a cause c?l?bre. Civil rights groups charged that Sessions had been looking for voter fraud in the black community and overlooking the same violations among whites, at least partly to help reelect his friend Senator Denton.

On its own, the case might not have been enough to stain Sessions with the taint of racism, but there was more. Senate Democrats tracked down a career Justice Department employee named J. Gerald Hebert, who testified, albeit reluctantly, that in a conversation between the two men Sessions had labeled the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP) and the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) "un-American" and "Communist-inspired." Hebert said Sessions had claimed these groups "forced civil rights down the throats of people." In his confirmation hearings, Sessions sealed his own fate by saying such groups could be construed as "un-American" when "they involve themselves in promoting un-American positions" in foreign policy. Hebert testified that the young lawyer tended to "pop off" on such topics regularly, noting that Sessions had called a white civil rights lawyer a "disgrace to his race" for litigating voting rights cases. Sessions acknowledged making many of the statements attributed to him but claimed that most of the time he had been joking, saying he was sometimes "loose with [his] tongue." He further admitted to calling the Voting Rights Act of 1965 a "piece of intrusive legislation," a phrase he stood behind even in his confirmation hearings.

It got worse. Another damaging witness--a black former assistant U.S. Attorney in Alabama named Thomas Figures--testified that, during a 1981 murder investigation involving the Ku Klux Klan, Sessions was heard by several colleagues commenting that he "used to think they [the Klan] were OK" until he found out some of them were "pot smokers." Sessions claimed the comment was clearly said in jest. Figures didn't see it that way. Sessions, he said, had called him "boy" and, after overhearing him chastise a secretary, warned him to "be careful what you say to white folks."

This. Is. Fucked.
posted by zombieflanders at 6:24 AM on November 18, 2016 [44 favorites]

TPS, that's exactly what I have been thinking! Not kidding at all. CLOONEY/BOOKER.

#I'mwithyou
posted by mochapickle at 2:10 PM on November 17

#I'mwithyoufellers
posted by Reverend John at 6:27 AM on November 18, 2016 [1 favorite]

Twitter says Kanye also says he was a secret Trump supporter well before the election (although in Kanye World being a supporter doesn't seem to mean actually voting for the guy, for some reason). Things are indeed all very Kardashian in that Trump Tower. I wonder if what we used to call normal life can ever be returned to, or if this is a one-way ticket.
posted by Coda Tronca at 6:27 AM on November 18, 2016 [1 favorite]

It is beginning to feel like Trump is starting multiple brush fires in order to burn everything down and we are running around trying to figure out how to stamp each fire out.

Srsly. I guess at least you can't accuse them of incrementalism (or at least I hope not).
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:28 AM on November 18, 2016

Jeff Secessions
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:29 AM on November 18, 2016

Sessions just this year: “Good people don’t smoke marijuana.” “I think one of his great failures—it’s been obvious to me—is lax treatment and comment on marijuana.”

They're going to raid every dispensary up and down the West Coast.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:33 AM on November 18, 2016 [7 favorites]

MetaFilter: a lot of rambling razzle dazzle bullshit, like it was made to be linked.
posted by kirkaracha at 6:36 AM on November 18, 2016

They're going to raid every dispensary up and down the West Coast.

Not if they're interested in keeping the tech-bros and keyboard-warrior alt-righters around.

Trump isn't going to install a vice squad at DOJ. Sessions is there to pursue more voter suppression, spy on BLM and undermine criminal justice reform.
posted by snuffleupagus at 6:38 AM on November 18, 2016 [4 favorites]

MSNBC is reporting on TV that they are nearing a settlement on the Trump University case.
posted by gatorae at 6:45 AM on November 18, 2016 [1 favorite]

Of course they are nearing a settlement. And a settlement is 'not an admission of guilt'. So the president-elect 'settled to make the whole thing go away, so he could get back to the business of being a great, just the best leader.'

I'm not sure what is more ridiculous: That line of shit, or that I still think people will see through this..
posted by das_2099 at 6:49 AM on November 18, 2016 [9 favorites]

The Slate Star Codex article "proves" Trump is not racist by pointing to a number of Potemkinesque tokenist propaganda setups Trump did and claiming that this means Trump isn't quiiiite as racist as everyone thinks he is.

If Trump says he's not a racist, it's good enough for me. The man tells it like it is. [Fake]


It is a measure of where we're at that it's the Trumpists who now are talking about race not being a big deal. Racism by denial is a more difficult position to move someone from than racism as an asserted value.
posted by gusottertrout at 6:49 AM on November 18, 2016

@paulkrugman:
So, Trump has selected a white supremacist as strategist, a racist as AG, and a crazy Islamophobe for Nat Sec. But we can work with him!
posted by chris24 at 6:50 AM on November 18, 2016 [31 favorites]

Also, let's not overlook the possibility that misogyny could be more powerful than racism.


My wife pointed this out to me, when she reminded me that the US ratified the Amendment which gave freed black slaves the right to vote in 1870, but didn't do the same for women until 1920.
posted by das_2099 at 6:57 AM on November 18, 2016 [15 favorites]

The Slate Star Codex guy is basically an apologist for neoreactionaries.
posted by fleacircus at 7:00 AM on November 18, 2016 [5 favorites]

The good news is that there is a ton of red in the places where population is shrinking and a ton of blue in places where the population is growing. The bad news is everything else.

I can't remember where I saw it, unfortunately, and I didn't look into it enough to get a sense that it was methodologically sound.

But I saw... something... in the past few days that at least said that it taking the turnout and voting patterns we actually saw in 2016 -- like x\% of this rural whites voted and they went 7\% for Trump -- and applied it to the adult population that's projected for 2020... and Democrats won MI, WI, and PA.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:03 AM on November 18, 2016 [2 favorites]

The new normal: president-elect Trump to UK prime minister Mrs May: “If you travel to the US you should let me know.”

Jared Kushner, the son-in-law of President-elect Donald J. Trump, has spoken to a lawyer about the possibility of joining the new administration, a move that could violate federal anti-nepotism law and risk legal challenges and political backlash[...]Mr. Trump is urging his son-in-law to join him in the White House, according to one of the people briefed. The president-elect’s sentiment is shared by Stephen K. Bannon...and Reince Priebus... Mr. Kushner accompanied Mr. Trump to the White House on Thursday, when the president-elect held his first in-person meeting with President Obama[...]

Throughout his campaign, Donald Trump promised to quickly get rid of the top level of senior military officers serving in uniform.

So, Trump has selected a white supremacist as strategist, a racist as AG, and a crazy Islamophobe for Nat Sec. But we can work with him!


So...we're basically going to be living in Tropico 6: Continental Edition.
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:03 AM on November 18, 2016 [3 favorites]

The Slate Star Codex guy is basically an apologist for neoreactionaries.

Which he denies vociferously on the same grounds that he denies Trump is a racist.
posted by Pope Guilty at 7:03 AM on November 18, 2016 [2 favorites]

Trump isn't going to install a vice squad at DOJ. Sessions is there to pursue more voter suppression, spy on BLM and undermine criminal justice reform.

They can do all of the above. DOJ is a big place.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:03 AM on November 18, 2016 [2 favorites]

Trumpico '16
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:04 AM on November 18, 2016 [3 favorites]

I read the Slate Star Codex article last night, all of it. It appears to cite the taco bowl tweet approvingly (last night it actually had the tweet embedded, now it seems not to) as an example of how not-racist Trump is. That's a silly example, but it's hard to take anyone seriously who doesn't see anything wrong with that.

It also fails to mention, among other things, the time Trump and his father were sued twice by the Justice Department for housing discrimination and the witnesses who confirmed his policies, his retweets of white supremacists, false claims about who commits homicide, the Star of David tweet, lying about Muslims celebrating 9/11, and the Central Park Five. It thinks birtherism might just be "wackiness" instead of anything racist because Trump pushes all kinds of bad conspiracy stories. It treats the support of white supremacists as something he didn't ask for and rejected, ignoring And it ignores (in fairness, it partially predates some of) his personnel decisions.

More importantly, it utterly punts on the Muslim ban (or whatever it is now) proposals, arguing "But do you see how there’s a difference between “cognitive bias that makes you unreasonably afraid” versus “white supremacy?"" No. I'd say that cognitive bias that makes you so unreasonably afraid that you propose banning 1.6 billion people from the country on the basis of their religion is racism. Fear might be an explanation for where the racism comes from, but it's not an excuse, not when you're about to be President and you're messing with billions of people's lives. We're not talking about his score on an implicit bias test or whether he crossed the street because he didn't like the look of someone, we're talking about a written plan to ban Muslims he put out on his website and repeated at rallies.

Then he says:

Let me say this for the millionth time. I’m not saying Trump doesn’t have some racist attitudes and policies. I am saying that talk of “entire campaign built around white supremacy” and “the white power candidate” is deliberate and dangerous exaggeration. Lots of people (and not just whites!) are hasty to generalize from “ISIS is scary” to “I am scared of all Muslims”. This needs to be called out and fought, but it needs to be done in an understanding way, not with cries of “KKK WHITE SUPREMACY!”

So you acknowledge he might have some "racist attitudes and policies" and now we're just haggling over the price. I know, everyone's a little bit racist and all that, but it is the height of special pleading, his weird argument about Atlantis aside, to say basically "well yeah, apart from the Muslim ban, the most explicitly racist public policy I've ever heard proposed in my lifetime, he's only got some sort of racist stuff going on." If the President-elect being the guy who recently thought it was a good idea to ban 1.6 billion people from the country on the basis of their religion isn't the time to break the glass and hit the panic alarm, what is?
posted by zachlipton at 7:05 AM on November 18, 2016 [19 favorites]

They can do all of the above. DOJ is a big place.

No, I mean, they affirmatively won't do that. Lots of Trump's base likes legal weed and/or have libertarian attitudes towards state by state legalization. And the opportunity for hard-up states to make money is too appealing. The religious wing of the party won't win this one.
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:09 AM on November 18, 2016 [3 favorites]

“Trump makes safe start in talks with Abe”—Newsline, NHK World, 18 November 2016

Cf. “Former U.S. Ambassador [to Japan] on Trump”—Id.

“After New York meeting, Abe confident Trump can be trusted,” Reuters/Kyodo, The Japan Times, 18 November 2016

Prime Minister Shinzo Abe met with Donald Trump on Thursday seeking clarity on campaign statements by the president-elect that rattled the Tokyo government, later telling reporters he was confident Trump was a “trustworthy leader.”

posted by ob1quixote at 7:09 AM on November 18, 2016

If this were a novel everyone would say it was terrible due to the intense foreshadowing.
posted by AlexiaSky at 7:11 AM on November 18, 2016 [39 favorites]

My IQ is only 3 billion, but here's a taco bowl
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:12 AM on November 18, 2016 [4 favorites]

Who thought for one millisecond that congress was going to vote to fire itself?

If Ryan is smart, he might actually get them to do this. There's already an extant court decision that term limits can only be applied to MCs by a federal constitutional amendment, because the Constitution already lays out the qualifications for office. So cheap PR.

Will Congress vote to cut its own healthcare and benefits?

They did when they voted for PPACA. Obamacare kicks MCs off of the regular federal health plans they'd been participating in and onto the exchanges.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:13 AM on November 18, 2016 [3 favorites]

I'm starting to see a pattern in his floated proposed nominations/cabinet picks. They're all people who, for one reason or another, had their political careers halted or stalled because of speech issues. Sessions, Flynn, etc.

I think this whole process of releasing names may be a method of signaling to the alt right and frustrated Joesthat under a Trump administration, "political correctness" will no longer be a barrier.
posted by corb at 7:14 AM on November 18, 2016 [33 favorites]

My prediction: the Democrats, having learned literally nothing from the last eight years, confirm virtually all of Trump's appointments and go along like good little soldiers

What I expect you'll actually see will be this:

Confirmations will be decided among Republicans. On appointments where a few (4, say) Republicans balk, Democrats will present an almost-unanimous front with those few Republicans, because that's enough to kill that confirmation. Mostly that won't happen and nominees will have the approval of all or all-but-one Republicans. On those instances the outcome has already been decided and Democratic Senators will just cast whatever vote they think will sell best in their state.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:16 AM on November 18, 2016 [3 favorites]

There should be no sympathy for these Vichy Democrats, only primarying and eventual prosecution.
posted by Pope Guilty at 7:18 AM on November 18, 2016 [10 favorites]

Dems get to ask these folks questions on the record in the confirmation hearings, remember. That's a valuable tool for fighting back!
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 7:23 AM on November 18, 2016 [2 favorites]

Dems get to ask these folks questions on the record in the confirmation hearings, remember. That's a valuable tool for fighting back!

Only if those questions affect the Republicans' willingness to vote to confirm Republican nominees.

SPOILER ALERT: It is 2016 and the GOP does not care how evil they look, only for power.
posted by Pope Guilty at 7:24 AM on November 18, 2016 [4 favorites]

Obamacare kicks MCs off of the regular federal health plans they'd been participating in and onto the exchanges.

Despite MC Hammer's protest cries of "Can't Touch This!" and Young MC threatening to "Bust a Move".
posted by Talez at 7:25 AM on November 18, 2016 [3 favorites]

Spokesman claims Donald Trump never called for Muslim registry despite video evidence

"President-elect Trump has never advocated for any registry or system that tracks individuals based on their religion, and to imply otherwise is completely false."

posted by kirkaracha at 7:27 AM on November 18, 2016 [1 favorite]

Spokesman claims Donald Trump never called for Muslim registry despite video evidence

There are five lights. How many do you see now?
posted by Etrigan at 7:29 AM on November 18, 2016 [22 favorites]

dirigibleman: Trump's already done worse things with his private phone than Clinton was even accused of doing with her email. I wonder when the FBI will start investigating. lol

Imagined response: "He hasn't been sworn in yet. We get his phones on January 20, 2017. Until then, he's a private citizen."
posted by filthy light thief at 7:31 AM on November 18, 2016 [1 favorite]

There should be no sympathy for these Vichy Democrats, only primarying and eventual prosecution.

Again, the hard part here is that this sort of Democratic wall would mean sometimes cooperating (or collaborating) with Ryan and McConnell against Trump, since the sorts of things Sanders/Schumer have mentioned are things that Ryan especially won't like. OTOH, cooperating with Trump then (or just getting out of the way by voting present) is a great way to fuck with Ryan and McConnell and get their own MCs pissed at them and at each other.

I wouldn't pretend to have the remotest idea when and on what actions different strategies would be better, but it might be worth extending a leeeeedle bit of benefit of the doubt. Schumer is not an idiot and wants to be majority leader in 2020, and has been siding with the Warren/Sanders crowd on other stuff recently.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:32 AM on November 18, 2016 [7 favorites]

How many fingers am I holding up, Winston?
posted by adamgreenfield at 7:32 AM on November 18, 2016 [5 favorites]

roomthreeseventeen: BREAKING: U.S. Director of National Intelligence Clapper says he has submitted his letter of resignation

While the high level resignations could be expected to some degree, I wonder how much low-level staff turnover will mire the new president-elect's term with slow-to-no intelligence and general support. I say this after hearing from staffer friends who are looking for other jobs in January, and I didn't consider them all that partisan. Liberal, but not likely to jump ship for just any Republican president.

On one hand, I totally understand it, and respect them for it. On the other hand, I want to mention Charles de La Bussière's paper-eating and other acts of uncivil disobedience, along with the general idea of damage minimization. But self-care comes first and they're very smart folks, so I'll support their decisions and say no more.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:40 AM on November 18, 2016 [4 favorites]

I wouldn't pretend to have the remotest idea when and on what actions different strategies would be better, but it might be worth extending a leeeeedle bit of benefit of the doubt. Schumer is not an idiot and wants to be majority leader in 2020, and has been siding with the Warren/Sanders crowd on other stuff recently.

Yeah, I'm not willing to call it treason to play up divisions between Trump and McConnell/Ryan on infrastructure, maternity leave, etc., when the threat of a unified GOP government is so great and Trump is so thin-skinned.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 7:40 AM on November 18, 2016 [2 favorites]

PS my IQ is 7 billion fyi, here's a graph of my IQ i found on reddit

Yes but are you a member of MENSA?
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:43 AM on November 18, 2016 [1 favorite]

I founded MENSA
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:43 AM on November 18, 2016 [8 favorites]

zutalors!: I think also no one believes anything Trump or his team ever says. Including the people who voted for him.

People who voted for him believe him figuratively but not literally. People who fear him believe him literally but not figuratively.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:45 AM on November 18, 2016 [14 favorites]

People who voted for him believe him figuratively but not literally. People who fear him believe him literally but not figuratively.

That's a really good point that bears repeating. Getting caught up on every stupid thing he utters can drive a liberal insane. Choose your battles!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:47 AM on November 18, 2016 [6 favorites]

Trump voters: "he's great because he tells it like it is! but he doesn't actually mean what he says!" so much cognitive dissonance.
posted by gatorae at 7:48 AM on November 18, 2016 [23 favorites]

Truthiness ain't just a river in Egypt.
posted by Etrigan at 7:52 AM on November 18, 2016 [9 favorites]

so much cognitive dissonance

We're past cognitive dissonance, I think it's more akin to cognitive cat-jumping-on-piano-noises.

Sometimes you hear a succession of notes that might possibly be a melody but you know it isn't and also it is a sign that your cat is having crazy time right now and will probably knock over a house plant in the near future.
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:55 AM on November 18, 2016 [11 favorites]

I legit started having a panic attack when I started reading up on Pompeo.
posted by angrycat at 7:56 AM on November 18, 2016 [1 favorite]

so much cognitive dissonance

It's love.

We're quite blind to the faults of those we love, even (or especially) when its an ideology that confirms our inner beliefs.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:00 AM on November 18, 2016 [1 favorite]

Again, the hard part here is that this sort of Democratic wall would mean sometimes cooperating (or collaborating) with Ryan and McConnell against Trump, since the sorts of things Sanders/Schumer have mentioned are things that Ryan especially won't like. OTOH, cooperating with Trump then (or just getting out of the way by voting present) is a great way to fuck with Ryan and McConnell and get their own MCs pissed at them and at each other.

I think it depends on what form the "cooperation" takes. Congressional Democrats haven't exactly shown themselves to be master legislative tacticians, so seeing them try to engage in n-dimensional chess does not inspire confidence.

There are many important things that will come up on the legislative calendar that are not acceptable inclusions in legislative horse-trading, because some things are simply non-negotiable no matter what the return is, and certainly not if the return is a high-speed rail line or two. Bills will come up with immensely popular things that the Democrats want, but with poison pills that will sell out key constituencies, or set bad precedents for what America will and won't do to its most vulnerable people. Opposition to these must be unanimous.

At the same time, the federal government can't run on autopilot. Budgets (or at least continuing resolutions) must be passed to keep the lights on. The debt ceiling needs to be raised from time to time. Emergencies happen that need legislative action to address. Democrats need to show a willingness to do their part in these basic functions to at least see if there's a way to divide and conquer the GOP caucus for a better deal, but when that fails, they need to be willing to put up a united front when Trump and the GOP majority try to use these emergencies to extract concessions. With the only way of stopping a united GOP caucus being the filibuster, which may or may not survive, it's important that they find ways to keep the GOP from being united, and that's hard to do without demonstrating good faith early on.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:00 AM on November 18, 2016 [1 favorite]

And I was afraid of Giuliani at AG.
posted by Golden Eternity at 8:03 AM on November 18, 2016 [5 favorites]

So what you're saying is, Democrats need to decide now what principles they cannot afford to compromise on, and then not compromise on them.

we might be fucked
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:04 AM on November 18, 2016 [16 favorites]

we might be are so fucked

ftfy
posted by murphy slaw at 8:07 AM on November 18, 2016 [3 favorites]

I legit started having a panic attack when I started reading up on Pompeo.

For maximum effect, like my OCD gave me, insert "and he will soon be running the CIA" after every sentence.
posted by Talez at 8:07 AM on November 18, 2016 [2 favorites]

Just buying time is often worth the price. I'm going to keep an eye on reports of IT failures within federal agencies. If there's one tribe capable of throwing sabots in the looms amid plausible deniability, it's the sysops. Sometimes, they even know they're doing it...
posted by Devonian at 8:12 AM on November 18, 2016 [3 favorites]

I thought like all organizations for nerds, MENSA was actually just a swinger's club at this point.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 8:16 AM on November 18, 2016 [3 favorites]

For maximum effect ... insert "and he will soon be running the CIA" after every sentence.


Ha ha ha! It's like I'm sprinting while standing still!
posted by From Bklyn at 8:19 AM on November 18, 2016 [7 favorites]

some would say that choosing general jack d. ripper as national security adviser is an unconventional choice, but it is certainly a bold choice
posted by murphy slaw at 8:27 AM on November 18, 2016 [9 favorites]

I thought like all organizations for nerds, MENSA was actually just a swinger's club at this point.

Your second point is dead right ("The place where the egg-heads get laid" was the slogan in London MENSA in the 80s) but your generalisation fails hilariously if you know the Radio Society of Great Britain.
posted by Devonian at 8:29 AM on November 18, 2016 [4 favorites]

Well just for the sake of argument let's pretend I don't know the Radio Society of Great Britain
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:33 AM on November 18, 2016 [8 favorites]

I'm not willing to call it treason to play up divisions between Trump and McConnell/Ryan on infrastructure, maternity leave, etc., when the threat of a unified GOP government is so great and Trump is so thin-skinned.

The thing is, this is how normalization starts. Dems go along with Trump if they think they can insert a wedge between the Republicans and Trump, or where they think the governance is good. This normalizes Trump to the American people, especially if he's delivering "good things" to both sides of the aisle. In 2020, he gets reelected through having appealed to both sides of the aisle, in a landslide, with only extremely deep blue states opposing him. He successfully sells scapegoating of certain communities as the reason there were problems, cementing it further in American politics.

It's important to remember right now that Hitler was a populist, and actually implemented many popular reforms and programs that helped working class people. He just did it at the cost of the Jews, and humanity. I'm not sure, for many people facing economic hard times all over, that it would be too high a price for them to pay.
posted by corb at 8:35 AM on November 18, 2016 [36 favorites]

so remember that moment in the late 90s when all the computer nerds realized that they could get laid now

yeah so that moment never happened for ham radio nerds
posted by murphy slaw at 8:36 AM on November 18, 2016 [5 favorites]

Awww
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:37 AM on November 18, 2016 [1 favorite]

I was for collaborating on things that are really worthwhile at first, but seeing Bannon in there as a main adviser is making me rethink that. Trump wants to play king, but a guy like Bannon is already planning his thousand year Reich. Any success Trump has with his help, and he's already had plenty, will keep Bannon and/or his tactics and beliefs around for future GOP, or even god help us, Dems to use. He's beyond bad and Trump's other appointees aren't looking much better.

Sowing division would be great, denying the worst of them and hauling them before ethics panels, sub-committees, or special sessions for their incompetence and wrong doing will be better. I just hope there are some decent career staffers that remain to blow the whistle on any wrongs they see, either publicly or covertly. Leak it if you got it, Donnie already said that kind of thing's okay!
posted by gusottertrout at 8:38 AM on November 18, 2016 [1 favorite]

I disagree that the only value in confirmation hearings is if the Dems convince the GOP not to confirm an appointee. Obviously that's the best case scenario, but even just shining sunlight on the worst parts at least sets us up for future opposition.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 8:42 AM on November 18, 2016 [3 favorites]

Well just for the sake of argument let's pretend I don't know the Radio Society of Great Britain

Does anyone really know the Radio Society of Britain? Like, really know them?
posted by ian1977 at 8:43 AM on November 18, 2016

The "but normalization" counterargument assumes Democrats are on Trump's side instead of on the side of a GOP faction that emerges in opposition to Trump. Republicans were able to mount an effective opposition to Obama because for all but a few weeks of his Presidency they had either or both of (a) majority rule of one chamber, or (b) the filibuster. Democrats will not have a majority and may not have the filibuster. At that point, it's more important to engage in harm reduction by attempting to use divisions in the GOP caucus to push for less-destructive legislation than to worry about the mid-terms or stopping Trump's re-election in 2020. The society has to be still standing for those elections to matter.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:47 AM on November 18, 2016 [5 favorites]

I think the Democrats should align with the left-leaning and decency-promoting folks in those Republicans' districts and get them to push their Republican reps to the center/left and away from Trump. Force the Republicans to move to the center rather than allowing them to redefine the center. The vote was closer than ever in Texas, Arizona, Georgia. Dems need to come out strongly against any cooperation with Trump on anything - and they need to ally with the people in Republican districts who will be the most harmed by Trump's policies. Stop negotiating with the R Senators, and start negotiating with their voters.

Any policy passed, even if bipartisan, will be implemented and enforced by Trump's horrific executive branch. There is no chance of meaningful cooperation.
posted by melissasaurus at 8:51 AM on November 18, 2016 [7 favorites]

For comparison, when you're trying to organize a union and the company is employing dirty tactics and negotiating in bad faith, etc, you don't keep trying to reason with the company's representatives. They will never be on your side. But they have people they eventually answer to. You target your messaging to the company's customers, their shareholders, their business partners. You find out what other issues they're dealing with (regulatory problems, environmental disputes, discrimination claims, etc), talk to the folks fighting for those issues and see where you can find alliances, etc.
posted by melissasaurus at 8:59 AM on November 18, 2016 [12 favorites]

Yeah but whynotboth.gif? I don't see how targeting the GOP's voters with messaging is mutually exclusive of attempts to limit the damage done through new legislation.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:05 AM on November 18, 2016 [3 favorites]

Trump’s CIA Director Wants to Return to a Pre-Snowden World.

Headline not quite accurate - as well as the wholesale removal of privacy and oversight protections, he wants a massive expansion of state surveillance.

And Sessions wants to be able to compel the surrender of bulk personal data from companies.

Be careful out there...
posted by Devonian at 9:05 AM on November 18, 2016 [1 favorite]

Yeah but whynotboth.gif? I don't see how targeting the GOP's voters with messaging is mutually exclusive of attempts to limit the damage done through new legislation.

Because any positive spin on a Trump presidency allows centrist Republicans and noninvolved folks to check out. We can't give people the opportunity to be complacent.
posted by melissasaurus at 9:11 AM on November 18, 2016 [6 favorites]

yeah so that moment never happened for ham radio nerds

Was dadcore ever considered sexy. dad bods were the hot trend a year or so ago
posted by Apocryphon at 9:12 AM on November 18, 2016 [2 favorites]

Trump wants to play king, but a guy like Bannon is already planning his thousand year Reich

Last year I read "Himmlers Hirn heisst Heydrich" by Laurent Binet. This election has me thinking about it regularly. It's a part-novel/part-biography of Reinhard Heydrich, Himmler's right-hand man and architect of the Gestapo, among other terrors. According to Binet he was instrumental in the persecution and murder of the opposition, the Polish invasion, and the Holocaust. Reading Binet's book you get the impression that Heydrich amplified everything that was evil about the regime and amplified it, ten times, a hundred, a million, to the point that you really start to wonder: how is it possible for one man to carry out this much evil? Doesn't the guy have to eat and sleep? It's hard to believe, not least because it's such a very, very frightening idea.
posted by dmh at 9:12 AM on November 18, 2016 [4 favorites]

Because any positive spin on a Trump presidency allows centrist Republicans and noninvolved folks to check out. We can't give people the opportunity to be complacent.

Again, it depends on what the cooperation is. "I voted with some non-batshit Republicans against a Muslim registry" is not going to significantly undermine the #ThisIsNotNormal message.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:14 AM on November 18, 2016 [3 favorites]

Reading Binet's book you get the impression that Heydrich amplified everything that was evil about the regime and amplified it, ten times, a hundred, a million, to the point that you really start to wonder: how is it possible for one man to carry out this much evil? Doesn't the guy have to eat and sleep? It's hard to believe, not least because it seems so very, very frightening.

That is precisely my fear with Bannon. He respects no norms, will do whatever he can to get his desired outcome and is content to do it from behind the scenes guiding those who crave the spotlight to be sure they both get what they want. It's often those who aren't in direct public view that are the most dangerous for being less accountable to anyone but the person they flatter and control.
posted by gusottertrout at 9:18 AM on November 18, 2016 [9 favorites]

Yeah, I strongly encourage everyone to read those other FPPs and commentary about Hitler's rise - in particular, how Hitler used the existing laws of the previous more liberal Weimar Republic and just started increased enforcement, targeted against enemies.

The Republic is not its reasonable healthcare, or its support for generous support for Kinder, Kucher, Kirche maternity policies.

The Republic stands on equal treatment for all, and the denial of dictatorship. The Republic stands on freedom of religion and belief. These things cannot and must not be surrendered for a few extra crusts of bread.
posted by corb at 9:18 AM on November 18, 2016 [34 favorites]

I keep having flashbacks to that episode of The Simpsons where Sideshow Bob ran for mayor. Near the end he gives a speech in court explaining why he rigged the election in his favor.

Sideshow Bob: Because you need me, Springfield. Your guilty conscience may move you to vote Democratic, but deep down you long for a cold-hearted Republican to lower taxes, brutalize criminals, and rule you like a king. That's why I did this, to save you from yourselves. Now, if you'll excuse me, I have a city to run.
posted by Servo5678 at 9:20 AM on November 18, 2016 [11 favorites]

The Republic is not its reasonable healthcare, or its support for generous support for Kinder, Kucher, Kirche maternity policies.

well the nice thing is we're not going to get those either so we don't have to feel conflicted
posted by murphy slaw at 9:22 AM on November 18, 2016 [7 favorites]

Hiltler's already here. The question is does the minority party try to exploit divisions within the Hitler-enabling party or refuse as a matter of principle to take part in the legislative process in the hopes that this principled stand will be rewarded in future elections. It just seems self-defeating to not avail oneself of opportunities to slow down / stop fascism now based on some notion that doing so will convince voters to vote the fascists out later. Voters rarely actually get these signals in the ways they're intended to be received, and voters who could have been saved from harm by legislative action whose interests were sacrificed in this bizarro-accelerationism strategy will certainly not be receptive to them.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:25 AM on November 18, 2016 [3 favorites]

I see a strong difference between "should we try to slow fascism" - which by all means, everyone should! - and "lets exploit the fascist's odd sympathies to some of our causes to get our wants passed, treating this as if it were normal." That's what makes the difference between resisting legislators and Vichy ones.
posted by corb at 9:30 AM on November 18, 2016 [17 favorites]

Mother Jones: Here's Evidence Steve Bannon Joined a Facebook Group That Posts Racist Rants and Obama Death Threats

Stephen Bannon, who Donald Trump tapped as his chief strategist in the White House, has come under fire for his self-admitted promotion of the alt-right, a haven of white nationalists, when he was head of far-right Breitbart News. His defenders have insisted Bannon is no racist or anti-Semite. But Mother Jones has uncovered another clue about Bannon's political personality: a Facebook page attributed to Bannon joined a conservative Facebook group that has featured racist and extreme material. This material includes posts urging a military coup against President Barack Obama, featuring an image of the president dressed as an SS officer, celebrating the Confederate flag, highlighting a photo-shopped picture of Obama with watermelons, praising a police officer who called a "F*cking Nigger President a F*cking Nigger," and calling for Obama to be "executed as a traitor."

This Facebook group is for an outfit called Vigilant Patriots, which claims its goals are defending and upholding the Constitution and preserving "our history and culture." As of Friday morning, it listed nearly 3,600 members, including Stephen Bannon, who apparently joined the group seven years ago.

posted by DynamiteToast at 9:34 AM on November 18, 2016 [6 favorites]

OK, I see operation "Let's preemptively blame the Democrats for Trump's normalization" is in full effect.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:38 AM on November 18, 2016 [8 favorites]

@brianbeutler:
Bannon: Jews suck.

Flynn: Muslims suck.

Sessions: Blacks suck.

David Duke: you guys rule.

Press: “critics say Trump's hiring racists."
posted by chris24 at 9:38 AM on November 18, 2016 [26 favorites]

Speaking of cracks in Republican unity to be exploited:

@MariannaSotomay:
Gov. Nikki Haley at the Federalist Society convention says PEOTUS Trump didn't win the presidency in a way that celebrates Republican values
posted by chris24 at 9:40 AM on November 18, 2016 [11 favorites]

Pompeo in the WSJ in January: "the use of strong encryption in personal communications may itself be a red flag."
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:41 AM on November 18, 2016 [3 favorites]

I see a strong difference between "should we try to slow fascism" - which by all means, everyone should! - and "lets exploit the fascist's odd sympathies to some of our causes to get our wants passed, treating this as if it were normal." That's what makes the difference between resisting legislators and Vichy ones.

Oh, I agree there. If Democrats take this tactic they should not make it a priority to actually pass the stuff Trump wants -- which they wouldn't anyway, since McConnell and Ryan have total control over what actually gets to the floor for a full vote. The only goal should be to play up those divisions as much as possible in order to make Trump angry at his own party.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:41 AM on November 18, 2016 [1 favorite]

So, Orrin Hatch is specifically seeking "Democratic cover" for Medicare privatization.

We need to contact all our reps and make sure there is no such beast.
posted by Frowner at 9:44 AM on November 18, 2016 [30 favorites]

the presence of a dead witch under a house may itself be a red flag that you are no longer in kansas.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 9:44 AM on November 18, 2016 [4 favorites]

Dems need to come out strongly against any cooperation with Trump on anything - and they need to ally with the people in Republican districts who will be the most harmed by Trump's policies.

Day one the Dems need full court press messaging in these districts saying "The Republican plan to fix X will result in awful outcomes Y and Z, and is supported by your reps A and B. Here is the Dem plan to fix X without these awful outcomes." and you plaster that message anywhere it will stick to get out ahead of every issue. Not just on Sunday talk shows coming out of the mouths of outraged staffers but in a barrage of SuperPAC advertising, SOPA blackout style protests, local teen memesters, corporate statements (yo Ford, set the damn record straight on the Mexico plant lie now, you've got commercial space during NFL games), celebrity protests - cover the media at all levels, BEFORE legislation or executive order, with a clear prediction of the awful effects and an equally clear alternative and call to action, and point to that every time that shit gets through anyways and your predictions come true. And speak your message in moderate Republican terms in Republican districts, in addition to progressive terms, because there is a very strong moderate Republican argument against the shit coming down the pike. And then run Dems who can speak to that argument AND primary these fucks from the center right.

You can Gish Gallop with the truth, too. Keep up the barrage. But at its core, a clear set of predictions of how the Trumpist way will fail and hurt people at all levels of society, and solutions to right the ship.
posted by jason_steakums at 9:46 AM on November 18, 2016 [14 favorites]

So, Orrin Hatch is specifically seeking "Democratic cover" for Medicare privatization.

But he also makes clear that he's reluctant to do it unless Democrats give Republicans cover. As we predicated, a lot of this will come down to whether Democrats give Republicans cover to phaseout Medicare on a notionally bipartisan basis.

Can Hatch be sent to county for a psych eval because he must be batshit fucking insane to even suggest this.
posted by Talez at 9:46 AM on November 18, 2016 [8 favorites]

We need to contact all our reps and make sure there is no such beast.

I called my (D-MA) congresswoman's office in DC and made it very clear that she should not participate in any bipartisan gutting of Medicare.

If she does I'll primary her myself and plaster this district with "SHE VOTED TO GUT MEDICARE!"
posted by Talez at 9:51 AM on November 18, 2016 [16 favorites]

They're going to raid every dispensary up and down the West Coast.

Not if they're interested in keeping the tech-bros and keyboard-warrior alt-righters around.

That assumes that drug policy is always enforced equally across all economic and racial demographics—but it isn't and won't be. Sessions may not approve when a klan member or a BLM activist smokes but I have a feeling he may be more inclined to prosecute one over the other. The legal/illegal quantum state is ideal for selective enforcement. The alt-righters and brocialists won't care as long as they feel confidant that they aren't the ones at risk of being targeted.
posted by metaphorever at 9:52 AM on November 18, 2016 [20 favorites]

yo Ford, set the damn record straight on the Mexico plant lie now, you've got commercial space during NFL games

Oh yeah, speaking of Ford, I'm adding them to my call sheet for the day. "Hi, I'm a shareholder* - I recently read that Ford was planning to move its Kentucky production to Mexico, but decided not to based on a conversation with Donald Trump. I was wondering whether these plans have been disclosed in the company's SEC filings and, if so, can you direct me to that disclosure?"

*through the S&P 500 but still counts

If they are nonresponsive, I'm filing an SEC complaint.
posted by melissasaurus at 9:54 AM on November 18, 2016 [12 favorites]

"Today my 8 year old son had to physically defend himself and his sister on the playground after a 13 year old boy slammed him to the ground breaking his arm & giving him a concussion, a 6 year old threw mulch at them, and a 9 year old told him to "Go back to the cotton farm!"" (FB link)

In any other time, this would be a major story. And now it's just another hate crime.

I know this isn't AskMe, but what's the best way to support these families?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:56 AM on November 18, 2016 [13 favorites]

The legal/illegal quantum state is ideal for selective enforcement.

This times a million.
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:57 AM on November 18, 2016 [3 favorites]

Countable alerts users about laws that Congress is considering, and enables you to automatically contact your elected officials to voice your opinion about those bills. It also lets you see how your representatives voted on those bills.
posted by monospace at 9:58 AM on November 18, 2016 [5 favorites]

To continue this living nightmare, there is a new post-election thread.
posted by Wordshore at 10:01 AM on November 18, 2016 [7 favorites]

In case you were morbidly curious, the first Jefferson Beauregard Sessions was born in Alabama in April 1860. Three generations and 150 years of treason in defence of slavery wrapped in one name.
posted by holgate at 10:05 AM on November 18, 2016 [3 favorites]

There should be no sympathy for these Vichy Democrats

My issue's more with those who would toss around such strident old-school leftist hyperbole and expect me to not laugh. Or is that not allowed now?
posted by philip-random at 10:11 AM on November 18, 2016 [1 favorite]

Jefferson Davis: president of the Confederacy
Pierre Gustave Toutant-Beauregard: Confederate general; ordered the first shots of the Civil War on Fort Sumter
posted by kirkaracha at 10:12 AM on November 18, 2016 [1 favorite]

Bad news, Kanye fans.

Wonder if he's trying to get a gig at one of the inaugural balls. His mother-in-law would be all over that.
posted by fuse theorem at 10:15 AM on November 18, 2016

The legal/illegal quantum state is ideal for selective enforcement.

Right now I'm going to pause to heave a sigh for Earth-3, where the libertarians, instead of cuddling with crazy, had spent their power warning about this, and Republicans and Democrats alike both saw it was a bad tool in the wrong hands, and legislated it out of existence.

Brb, working on an alternate-universe-travel machine.
posted by corb at 10:15 AM on November 18, 2016 [1 favorite]

my pastor and his wife have adopted more than 10 children from all over the world. one of them is my guitar student. i say "more than 10" because some have grown up and moved on and i have never met them. 10 are currently children and living with them.)

my pastor's wife posted this earlier this week. names have been changed.

What Now?
Yesterday, my children’s teacher explained that abortion means killing babies, and that Hillary Clinton is a baby killer. This teacher then admonished the 4th graders not to tell their parents what she said, or “Grandma Marlene” as she tells the children to call her, will “you know”—and she pantomimed getting her head cut off. At the risk of getting their teacher killed, my children talked.
Today, I had to tell my three black sons that the man endorsed by the KKK is their new president.
I had to tell my overweight, Hispanic, special needs daughter who has been the victim of sexual assault, that the man who despises all these categories is now president.
I had to assure my terrified Haitian child that he would come home on the bus today—that he would not be deported directly from school.
Today, I hugged my muslim foster son as his siblings inquired, “Will we have to send Zayan back?”
"Of course not!” I lied.

posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 10:16 AM on November 18, 2016 [32 favorites]

My issue's more with those who would toss around such strident old-school leftist hyperbole and expect me to not laugh. Or is that not allowed now?

Fascists are colonizing the Executive Branch. I think the collaborationist Vichy government is an excellent analogy to Democrats who refuse to resist and talk about working with them.
posted by Pope Guilty at 10:16 AM on November 18, 2016 [21 favorites]

The legal/illegal quantum state is ideal for selective enforcement.

This times a million.

Add my million-factor multiplier. It doesn't just make the non-targets 'not care', it actively recruits them into the fold, because they now have an advantage granted by the enforcers that could be withdrawn at any point, for any reason. The further in you get, the greater your immunity appears to grow - but you are never fully immune. The pressure on you to support this grows, and your active participation in the injustice is required and expected.

It is a classic, classic, classic tool of authoritarianism, and the reason that fair and equitable rule of law that applies to all citizens has to be staunchly defended. Even if we know that ideal is ultimately unreachable in human society, it is one to fiercely aspire to.
posted by Devonian at 10:20 AM on November 18, 2016 [19 favorites]

Who or what is Slate Star Codex, and why has this person or group or whatever not learned about concision in writing?
posted by raysmj at 10:24 AM on November 18, 2016

Oh, and Dear Democratic Party.

I would dearly like to see a clear, concise and unambiguous list of the principles you will abide by in opposition, that can be referred to during times of pressure and uncertainty, that clearly set the rules of engagement with the GOP and the Office of the President.

Doesn't have to be long, but the headline of each should be tweetable.

At your earliest convenience, but before the inauguration.

Thanks,

A Friend.
posted by Devonian at 10:26 AM on November 18, 2016 [12 favorites]

fair and equitable rule of law that applies to all citizens has to be staunchly defended

This is what terrifies me. I grew up in a country which was not perfect, but which was governed by the rule of law. And its soon-to-be leader does not believe in the rule of law.

On January 20, 2017, a man will stand in front of the Capitol Building and swear before the nation that he will uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States.

He will be lying.
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:26 AM on November 18, 2016 [26 favorites]

On January 20, 2017, a man will stand in front of the Capitol Building and swear before the nation that he will uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States.


if they put the oath on a teleprompter he may not even do that
posted by murphy slaw at 10:39 AM on November 18, 2016 [3 favorites]

As long as he continues to resist reading it, he'll never know he's lying.
posted by Joey Michaels at 10:39 AM on November 18, 2016 [1 favorite]

The Democrats could be planning to get some good stuff passed, then stab the Republicans in the back. What do you expect them to do, publicize that they plan to stab them in the back?
posted by Apocryphon at 11:36 AM on November 18, 2016 [1 favorite]

Jeff Flake issued a statement today about the naming of Sessions as AG:

Senator Sessions is well liked and well regarded, even by those who don't always agree with him. I look forward to supporting his nomination.

So, let's not count on the people who were in opposition within the GOP ranks during the election. They're falling right in line.
posted by Superplin at 11:36 AM on November 18, 2016 [5 favorites]

But of course. Now that the GOP has figured out that they don't have to whistle, 99% of GOP opposition to Trump will melt away as though (or rather because) it was illusory in the first place.
posted by Pope Guilty at 11:40 AM on November 18, 2016 [2 favorites]

It just pisses me off to no end that so many people here are grappling oh-so-valiantly with how they will be able to cope with Trump's reign, while looking straight past December 19 at January 20.

Here's an idea: Instead of agonizing over how to cope with it, how about if we cast our body ballots to stop it?

Or is that too risky for the likes of us?
posted by perspicio at 11:52 AM on November 18, 2016

can you be more specific?
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 12:04 PM on November 18, 2016 [2 favorites]

There's a MetaTalk for talking about concrete actions that would be a good place to start if what you're hoping for is to check in with other MeFites about their today-and-every-day action plans. This isn't that thread, and treating it like it is or assuming that folks talking about the medium-term necessarily aren't thinking about the short term is likely to miss the mark and be counter productive besides.
posted by cortex at 12:16 PM on November 18, 2016 [4 favorites]

Donald ‘Never Settle’ Trump to Settle Trump University Fraud Lawsuit for $20 Million

The president-elect has agreed to shell out millions to student victims over claims his school engaged in fraud, but he won’t have to admit fault.
posted by futz at 12:17 PM on November 18, 2016 [1 favorite]

The president-elect has agreed to shell out millions to student victims over claims his school engaged in fraud, but he won’t have to admit fault.

Boy, he really hates admitting fault, doesn't he? I think he thinks that not admitting fault is some sort of long-term get-out-of-jail free card like if you don't admit fault that means it never happened. What an excellent quality in a chief executive!
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 12:24 PM on November 18, 2016 [2 favorites]

I can't remember which backgrounder about Sessions pointed out that although his overt racism has been known for decades, and was specifically enough to stop him becoming a Federal judge, nobody in the GOP ever called him out on it, and Dubya even stumped for him. (And damn the BBC for reporting he 'denied' the quoted incidents of racism - he said they were all misunderstood jokes. Because nothing's funnier in Alabama, right?)

So, set expectations accordingly.
posted by Devonian at 12:28 PM on November 18, 2016

I think he thinks that not admitting fault is some sort of long-term get-out-of-jail free card like if you don't admit fault that means it never happened

What evidence could you present to him that he is wrong to think this way? It seems to be working out gangbusters for him.
posted by Bookhouse at 12:32 PM on November 18, 2016 [3 favorites]

Thank you, cortex, I did not know that.
posted by perspicio at 12:37 PM on November 18, 2016

Trump voters: "he's great because he tells it like it is! but he doesn't actually mean what he says!" so much cognitive dissonance.

One theory I have is that there isn't cognitive dissonance because there's not a highly reasoned process in the first place:

Did Trump say he'd create a registry/deport millions/build a wall? Well, yes, those are the words he used, but that isn't what he said. He said "I'm strong. They're wrong. I'm going to do things differently."

Insert whatever value you like for "they": liberals, the existing governing class, elitists who did their homework and humiliated you by telling you your homework was wrong, people more successful than you, Others.

I mean, if the process rises to the cognitive/logos level, you can start saying things like Peter Theil does ("seriously but not literally"), but I don't think it does.
posted by wildblueyonder at 12:42 PM on November 18, 2016 [1 favorite]

JUSTICE THOMAS: HONOR SCALIA BY REINING IN GOVERNMENT

Thomas told 1,700 people at a dinner in honor of Scalia that the Supreme Court has too often granted rights to people that are not found in the Constitution. He cited the decision in 2015 that made same-sex marriage legal across the country.

Thomas said he and his longtime friend and colleague formed an "odd couple" of a white New Yorker and a black man from Georgia.

He paraphrased Lincoln's Gettysburg address to exhort the audience to "be dedicated to the unfinished business for which Justice Scalia gave his last full measure of devotion."

Thomas and Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito were the bookends of the Thursday meeting of the Federalist Society...

...Alito issued his own rallying cry to conservatives, describing religious freedom and gun rights as among "constitutional fault lines," important issues at stake in the federal courts.

...Alito said Scalia, a hero to many of the group's 40,000 members, is sorely missed on the court. "We are left to ask ourselves WWSD," what would Scalia do, Alito said. The lettering is a play on the phrase "WWJD," for what would Jesus do.
posted by futz at 1:07 PM on November 18, 2016

The Republic is not its reasonable healthcare, or its support for generous support for Kinder, Kucher, Kirche maternity policies.

The Republic stands on equal treatment for all, and the denial of dictatorship. The Republic stands on freedom of religion and belief. These things cannot and must not be surrendered for a few extra crusts of bread.

corn, I don't suppose you've considered... running for office?

No, really.
posted by jokeefe at 1:08 PM on November 18, 2016

melissasaurus: The secret service is proposing shutting down 5th ave in midtown on the days Trump is residing at Trump Tower. Think of how much DC shuts down when the president's motorcade goes by. Now imagine that in midtown Manhattan.

Talez: To put it in perspective as to the district Trump is in, Tiffany & Co is on the corner next to Trump Tower. Louis Vutton, BVLGARI, Van Cleef, Giorgio Armani, Chanel, Dior, Saint Laurent are all across the road from that block. IBM is in the 590 Madison next door on the same block! Some of the most expensive 5th Avenue stores would have to wholesale pick up and move if the SS decided to shut it all down.

Has anyone asked seen if Chris Christie is still involved with this planning? Does he have a grudge against Tiffany & Co or something?
posted by filthy light thief at 1:11 PM on November 18, 2016

They'll have to put one of these over Trump Tower too. I don't know enough about the Manhattan airspace to say what effect this will have.
posted by Devonian at 1:28 PM on November 18, 2016

Pope Guilty: There should be no sympathy for these Vichy Democrats, only primarying and eventual prosecution.

Where did you get this headline? I was all set to start yelling about prosecuting not only political opponents but now allies who are insufficiently motivated except I don't see anything in there about prosecuting anyone. Or even primarying.
posted by Justinian at 1:28 PM on November 18, 2016

Unless that's an editorial statement of your own re: prosecution, in which case I can only say jesus christ dude no.
posted by Justinian at 1:29 PM on November 18, 2016

corn, I don't suppose you've considered... running for office?

Like too many others of my #NeverTrump brethren, I am insufficiently ideologically and personally pure to run for office in the current environment. Maybe if McMullin's New Conservative movement gets off the ground, but until then, I'll just confine myself to rallying the troops.
posted by corb at 1:29 PM on November 18, 2016 [1 favorite]

Ringside With Steve Bannon at Trump Tower

In these dark days for Democrats, Bannon has become the blackest hole.

"Darkness is good," says Bannon, who amid the suits surrounding him at Trump Tower, looks like a graduate student in his T-shirt, open button-down and tatty blue blazer — albeit a 62-year-old graduate student. "Dick Cheney. Darth Vader. Satan. That's power. It only helps us when they" — I believe by "they" he means liberals and the media, already promoting calls for his ouster — "get it wrong. When they're blind to who we are and what we're doing."

On that precise point, The New York Times, in a widely circulated article, will describe this day at Trump Tower as a scene of "disarray" for the transition team. In fact, it's all hands on: Mike Pence, the vice president-elect and transition chief, and Reince Priebus, the new chief of staff, shuttling between full conference rooms; Jared Kushner, Trump's son-in-law and by many accounts his closest advisor, conferring in the halls; Sen. Jeff Sessions in and out of meetings on the transition team floor; Rudy Giuliani upstairs with Trump (overheard: "Is the boss meeting-meeting with Rudy or just shooting the shit?"), and Bannon with a long line of men and women outside his corner office. If this is disarray, it's a peculiarly focused and organized kind.

"I am," he says, with relish, "Thomas Cromwell in the court of the Tudors."
posted by futz at 1:39 PM on November 18, 2016 [4 favorites]

Trump and his cronies have been very plain about the laundry list of crimes and abuses they intend to carry out. Politicians who assist them should be tried as accomplices, once whoever the Allies are in WWIII force our surrender.
posted by Pope Guilty at 1:42 PM on November 18, 2016 [2 favorites]

"I am," he says, with relish, "Thomas Cromwell in the court of the Tudors."

God I hope so, and soon.
posted by FelliniBlank at 1:52 PM on November 18, 2016 [6 favorites]

Trump and his cronies have been very plain about the laundry list of crimes and abuses they intend to carry out. Politicians who assist them should be tried as accomplices

Voting for infrastructure bills may or may not be wise, but it sure as shit isn't being an accomplice in war atrocities or other international crimes.
posted by Justinian at 2:01 PM on November 18, 2016

God I hope so, and soon.

Cromwell was very good at his job for quite a long time, and accomplished much before he fell from grace. I do not wish for that.
posted by suelac at 2:02 PM on November 18, 2016 [2 favorites]

um, did nobody post the new thread in here?
posted by zachlipton at 2:06 PM on November 18, 2016 [3 favorites]

oh, new thread! thanks.
posted by Justinian at 2:23 PM on November 18, 2016

I'm starting to think that our corner of the multiverse doesn't ever get around to inventing time travel.
posted by bonobothegreat at 9:08 AM on November 20, 2016 [1 favorite]

for the sake of the multiverse, i kind of hope we don't
posted by entropicamericana at 9:40 AM on November 20, 2016

A new post-election thread is now live. The post concludes with a refreshingly honest song for the time of year. (song may not be suitable for children's parties or church events)
posted by Wordshore at 10:02 AM on November 25, 2016 [1 favorite]

Go Nina Turner.
posted by Golden Eternity at 1:02 PM on December 3, 2016