So long, and thanks for all the fish.
November 19, 2016 3:38 PM Subscribe
@WhatCDStatus had initially cautioned to take the "Zataz" report with a grain of salt as they were known to be unreliable/confabulatory, but all I see is English language sites repeating the Zataz article verbatim. Obviously the site is down but I have yet to see any independent reports that don't just point back to Zataz as far as what happened.
posted by anazgnos at 4:09 PM on November 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by anazgnos at 4:09 PM on November 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
I used to go to torrent sites and LP blogs and stuff all the time, downloading stuff. I sort of got away from that when I got to the point that there is a large portion of my iTunes library that I have literally never listened to. But I loved it when I did that kind of thing. I was never a part of this particular community. But the loss of 1 million albums that nobody officially cared enough about to make officially available, while that tiny fraction that did care in their hearts were able to share it and find it... that's terrible.
posted by hippybear at 4:14 PM on November 19, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 4:14 PM on November 19, 2016 [10 favorites]
.
posted by Pope Guilty at 4:38 PM on November 19, 2016
posted by Pope Guilty at 4:38 PM on November 19, 2016
"Our right to waste food is more important than your need to eat." There's no conceivable profit to be protected here. This is all about pure control.
posted by 1adam12 at 4:45 PM on November 19, 2016 [34 favorites]
posted by 1adam12 at 4:45 PM on November 19, 2016 [34 favorites]
Metafilter's own Waxy has a good eulogy for what.cd with lots of info about the culture.
posted by Nelson at 4:49 PM on November 19, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Nelson at 4:49 PM on November 19, 2016 [4 favorites]
What.cd was so good for finding out of print and foreign releases that you can't get legally for love or money, unless you want to crawl through every "Miscellaneous" stack of vinyl at every used music store, thrift store, flea market, and garage sale you come across.
RIP. My grotesquely bloated music collection thanks you.
posted by SansPoint at 4:57 PM on November 19, 2016 [10 favorites]
RIP. My grotesquely bloated music collection thanks you.
posted by SansPoint at 4:57 PM on November 19, 2016 [10 favorites]
.
This is truly a terrible, terrible loss. Having been lucky enough to have had access to this veritable Library of Alexandria (which is a moniker that I think is well enough earned) I will say that I thought it was a bit over the top to have so many versions of so many albums with so many verification levels to make sure the bits all lined up as they should. In retrospect, that's just... insanely impressive and the lost culture and data is seriously lamentable. I am more than a little bit in mourning, both selfishly as well as for the world and music in general, and I am far, far from an audiophile.
I have no shame. Any replacements? My memail is always open, I will not screw up w/r/t site rules/ratio.
posted by RolandOfEld at 5:18 PM on November 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
This is truly a terrible, terrible loss. Having been lucky enough to have had access to this veritable Library of Alexandria (which is a moniker that I think is well enough earned) I will say that I thought it was a bit over the top to have so many versions of so many albums with so many verification levels to make sure the bits all lined up as they should. In retrospect, that's just... insanely impressive and the lost culture and data is seriously lamentable. I am more than a little bit in mourning, both selfishly as well as for the world and music in general, and I am far, far from an audiophile.
I have no shame. Any replacements? My memail is always open, I will not screw up w/r/t site rules/ratio.
posted by RolandOfEld at 5:18 PM on November 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
I will say that I thought it was a bit over the top to have so many versions of so many albums with so many verification levels to make sure the bits all lined up as they should. In retrospect, that's just... insanely impressive and the lost culture and data is seriously lamentable.
The perfectionist archival side of What was actually a really big plus for me. That and the zero tolerance for uploads of high-res material and other audiophile nonsense.
posted by Bangaioh at 5:36 PM on November 19, 2016 [6 favorites]
The perfectionist archival side of What was actually a really big plus for me. That and the zero tolerance for uploads of high-res material and other audiophile nonsense.
posted by Bangaioh at 5:36 PM on November 19, 2016 [6 favorites]
Damn it is sad that this era seems to be coming to an end. What do the cool kids use these days? Or does everyone just stream mixes and Youtube playlists? Do the kids these days even download files?
The abundance that was lost here is staggering. I could be like "what was that shitty punk band that played my friends basement 15 years ago that only put out one record on one tiny label" and there it would be, out there in the infinite internet.
posted by bradbane at 5:41 PM on November 19, 2016 [2 favorites]
The abundance that was lost here is staggering. I could be like "what was that shitty punk band that played my friends basement 15 years ago that only put out one record on one tiny label" and there it would be, out there in the infinite internet.
posted by bradbane at 5:41 PM on November 19, 2016 [2 favorites]
The perfectionist archival side of What was actually a really big plus for me.
That's understandable and I'm glad that casuals like me were able to benefit from the systematic awesomeness that folks like you brought to the system. I just always figured the weight would implode the system on itself somehow/someway one day. Turns out I was wrong anyhow.
The abundance that was lost here is staggering. I could be like "what was that shitty punk band that played my friends basement 15 years ago that only put out one record on one tiny label" and there it would be, out there in the infinite internet.
Yup, this sums up the loss we're experiencing as well as the general feel that I had from my visits there. Once I was like "What was that vinyl album my dad had growing up that had that crazy ass cover?" and, with an almost scary ease, I was able to find it and then go and purchase the actual, physical album for a friend of mine that just got a turntable.
*Sigh*
posted by RolandOfEld at 6:12 PM on November 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
That's understandable and I'm glad that casuals like me were able to benefit from the systematic awesomeness that folks like you brought to the system. I just always figured the weight would implode the system on itself somehow/someway one day. Turns out I was wrong anyhow.
The abundance that was lost here is staggering. I could be like "what was that shitty punk band that played my friends basement 15 years ago that only put out one record on one tiny label" and there it would be, out there in the infinite internet.
Yup, this sums up the loss we're experiencing as well as the general feel that I had from my visits there. Once I was like "What was that vinyl album my dad had growing up that had that crazy ass cover?" and, with an almost scary ease, I was able to find it and then go and purchase the actual, physical album for a friend of mine that just got a turntable.
*Sigh*
posted by RolandOfEld at 6:12 PM on November 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
Dangiiiiittt.
I just got into my first private tracker for music and it's gone within 6 months. Where do I get the good stuff now?
posted by constantinescharity at 7:08 PM on November 19, 2016 [2 favorites]
I just got into my first private tracker for music and it's gone within 6 months. Where do I get the good stuff now?
posted by constantinescharity at 7:08 PM on November 19, 2016 [2 favorites]
What.cd was so good for finding out of print and foreign releases that you can't get legally for love or money, unless you want to crawl through every "Miscellaneous" stack of vinyl at every used music store, thrift store, flea market, and garage sale you come across.
Dude, that was fun.
posted by jonmc at 7:16 PM on November 19, 2016 [4 favorites]
Dude, that was fun.
posted by jonmc at 7:16 PM on November 19, 2016 [4 favorites]
Yeah, I love how you can just order whatever online, but there's a real pleasure in digging through stacks for elusive rarities.
posted by Pope Guilty at 7:43 PM on November 19, 2016
posted by Pope Guilty at 7:43 PM on November 19, 2016
Damn. I haven't logged in for months, and now I guess I never will again. That's way more depressing than I expected
posted by Doleful Creature at 7:58 PM on November 19, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Doleful Creature at 7:58 PM on November 19, 2016 [2 favorites]
1adam12: ""Our right to waste food is more important than your need to eat." There's no conceivable profit to be protected here. This is all about pure control."
You have to think of the big picture from the record company point of view. They figure if you can't access back catalogue for free then you'll buy current stuff.
great_radio: "Wow, totally true. I'd always wondered what would happen if/when we got to post-scarcity for something like food or clothes or consumer electronics. But there isn't any need to wonder. This was the test case. We'll never be post-scarcity."
We are in a transition period though. Especially when comes to commodity items being cranked out by replicators the free market will be served by things that were never under copyright having been designed from the get go with some sort of free use licensing. This is happening in music too where literally more music than you could listen to in your life time is being released for free. It's heavily represented by the 80% of the Sturgeon ratio but I bet it continues to get better as the market shifts away from gatekeepers. And it is one of the reasons publications are closing or condensing photography departments. So many people are giving content away for nothing it isn't worth it to keep staff around.
posted by Mitheral at 8:01 PM on November 19, 2016 [3 favorites]
You have to think of the big picture from the record company point of view. They figure if you can't access back catalogue for free then you'll buy current stuff.
great_radio: "Wow, totally true. I'd always wondered what would happen if/when we got to post-scarcity for something like food or clothes or consumer electronics. But there isn't any need to wonder. This was the test case. We'll never be post-scarcity."
We are in a transition period though. Especially when comes to commodity items being cranked out by replicators the free market will be served by things that were never under copyright having been designed from the get go with some sort of free use licensing. This is happening in music too where literally more music than you could listen to in your life time is being released for free. It's heavily represented by the 80% of the Sturgeon ratio but I bet it continues to get better as the market shifts away from gatekeepers. And it is one of the reasons publications are closing or condensing photography departments. So many people are giving content away for nothing it isn't worth it to keep staff around.
posted by Mitheral at 8:01 PM on November 19, 2016 [3 favorites]
The more you tighten your grip the more star systems will slip through your fingers.
*sigh
posted by lazycomputerkids at 8:04 PM on November 19, 2016
*sigh
posted by lazycomputerkids at 8:04 PM on November 19, 2016
Gosh darn it. My, uh, best friend had a few browser tabs open to different collages and 15 free tokens waiting to be used. I guess that should be an early 21st century aphorism; instead of "Don't count your chicks before they hatch," you could have "Don't hoard your free tokens or your 7.0 upload ratio for too long, or you'll found yourself not being to use them."
posted by alidarbac at 8:54 PM on November 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by alidarbac at 8:54 PM on November 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
For those curious how it lasted so long: not only was it invite-only, but you had to pass a rigorous IRC interview to get your invitation accepted, getting quizzed on everything from audio codecs to torrent clients to obscure scene slang. Only the most obsessive music nerds could even get in. (I never applied, myself).
There was an entire website to help folks prepare for their interview
This infographic boils down the most important points
Sample interviews: one - two - three
Also, I'm surprised to hear the site was hosted in France -- aren't there friendlier jurisdictions for stuff like that?
posted by Rhaomi at 9:27 PM on November 19, 2016 [3 favorites]
There was an entire website to help folks prepare for their interview
This infographic boils down the most important points
Sample interviews: one - two - three
Also, I'm surprised to hear the site was hosted in France -- aren't there friendlier jurisdictions for stuff like that?
posted by Rhaomi at 9:27 PM on November 19, 2016 [3 favorites]
Yeah, I love how you can just order whatever online, but there's a real pleasure in digging through stacks for elusive rarities.
Given infinite time, money and nothing better to do, maybe. When folks try to sell me on the joys of crate picking, all I hear is
posted by zamboni at 9:28 PM on November 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
Given infinite time, money and nothing better to do, maybe. When folks try to sell me on the joys of crate picking, all I hear is
You really need to hear Stockholm Syndrome's second album on the original vinyl to really appreciate it. Make sure you get the Cognitive Dissonance Records pressing.
posted by zamboni at 9:28 PM on November 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
@WhatCDStatus had initially cautioned to take the "Zataz" report with a grain of salt as they were known to be unreliable/confabulatory, but all I see is English language sites repeating the Zataz article verbatim. Obviously the site is down but I have yet to see any independent reports that don't just point back to Zataz as far as what happened.
That Twitter not an official WCD affiliate. This one is. They are officially done. Best guess what happened putting together available info (also I was there watching it go down in several stages) is that peripheral/proxy servers were seized - or admins believed it was likely true - and then they pushed the self-destruct button on the DB and core server to protect themselves and their users.
posted by atoxyl at 9:34 PM on November 19, 2016 [3 favorites]
That Twitter not an official WCD affiliate. This one is. They are officially done. Best guess what happened putting together available info (also I was there watching it go down in several stages) is that peripheral/proxy servers were seized - or admins believed it was likely true - and then they pushed the self-destruct button on the DB and core server to protect themselves and their users.
posted by atoxyl at 9:34 PM on November 19, 2016 [3 favorites]
The important servers were probably... somewhere else, and if you can believe the messages from WCD staff there is nothing to seize there now.
For those curious how it lasted so long: not only was it invite-only, but you had to pass a rigorous IRC interview to get your invitation accepted
They had regular invites - like other private trackers - which would get you in automatically. Unusually for a private tracker, they also had an interview process through which anybody could apply for an invite, making them less exclusive than many trackers in practice. That probably didn't help them in the end but I respected it a lot.
posted by atoxyl at 9:39 PM on November 19, 2016 [4 favorites]
For those curious how it lasted so long: not only was it invite-only, but you had to pass a rigorous IRC interview to get your invitation accepted
They had regular invites - like other private trackers - which would get you in automatically. Unusually for a private tracker, they also had an interview process through which anybody could apply for an invite, making them less exclusive than many trackers in practice. That probably didn't help them in the end but I respected it a lot.
posted by atoxyl at 9:39 PM on November 19, 2016 [4 favorites]
I never heard of it ... let alone got an invite. Thus I shall not shed tears.
That said, it's still not clear that anything great on the Internet really goes away. I remember kvetching a lot when CDDB got eaten by Gracenote. Since a few years after that, I'm pretty sure I've gotten back way more than I put in.
So while I never got to "fall down the rabbit hole, going from artist to artist or collage to collage and not come out for hours", that part probably isn't going away for long ... and certainly the music isn't either. See you next time around.
posted by Twang at 9:52 PM on November 19, 2016
That said, it's still not clear that anything great on the Internet really goes away. I remember kvetching a lot when CDDB got eaten by Gracenote. Since a few years after that, I'm pretty sure I've gotten back way more than I put in.
So while I never got to "fall down the rabbit hole, going from artist to artist or collage to collage and not come out for hours", that part probably isn't going away for long ... and certainly the music isn't either. See you next time around.
posted by Twang at 9:52 PM on November 19, 2016
What.cd was a magical place. You shall be missed.
.
posted by mayonnaises at 10:05 PM on November 19, 2016
.
posted by mayonnaises at 10:05 PM on November 19, 2016
To this day, some of my favorite bands (like, I listen to them daily) are defunct punk and or ska bands that never made it big, and the only way I ever found out about them was torrents. Animal Chin, American Steel, the Pinstripes, Freygolo, even a Balinese punk band (Superman is Dead, they are awesome) that I would never have known of otherwise. I was never on What, always wanted to be, and this, following the death of Kickass is really disheartening.
my me mail, it is open, and I'm a good seeder
posted by Ghidorah at 10:11 PM on November 19, 2016 [3 favorites]
my me mail, it is open, and I'm a good seeder
posted by Ghidorah at 10:11 PM on November 19, 2016 [3 favorites]
I think what will have to happen is that something like DHT will have to be used, each member of the swarm persisting as much of the directory as they can - a huge list of magnet links not taking up much space - the central server only maintaining authentication. Everything else is on the clients. There will have to be invented a directory mechanism, maybe its organization and hierarchy maintained Wikipedia-like, which is then presented for the user to select from.
Still a bummer.
.
posted by rhizome at 10:12 PM on November 19, 2016
Still a bummer.
.
posted by rhizome at 10:12 PM on November 19, 2016
The Man has definitely gained an upper hand this year in the ongoing file-sharing war
posted by Auden at 10:41 PM on November 19, 2016
posted by Auden at 10:41 PM on November 19, 2016
What.cd really was an incomparable treasure.
My internet time-wasting cycle used to go something like this:
1. Check what.cd's daily/weekly top 10.
2. Download whatever new house music EP / folk single / electronic freak out / low-fi chillwave 7" people on what.cd are excited about
3. Metafilter while that downloads
4. Listen
Losing What.cd feels like losing a friend.
posted by Rinku at 11:25 PM on November 19, 2016
My internet time-wasting cycle used to go something like this:
1. Check what.cd's daily/weekly top 10.
2. Download whatever new house music EP / folk single / electronic freak out / low-fi chillwave 7" people on what.cd are excited about
3. Metafilter while that downloads
4. Listen
Losing What.cd feels like losing a friend.
posted by Rinku at 11:25 PM on November 19, 2016
For those curious how it lasted so long: not only was it invite-only, but you had to pass a rigorous IRC interview to get your invitation accepted.
And because of that, it's long been used as a sort of stepping stone into the world of private trackers - pass the what.cd interview, participate & keep a good ratio for a few months, and you can start discreetly asking for invites to bottom-level private trackers and working your way up the chain.
It'll be interesting to see how the other, more private, private trackers deal with having their gatekeeper taken away…
posted by Pinback at 11:32 PM on November 19, 2016 [2 favorites]
And because of that, it's long been used as a sort of stepping stone into the world of private trackers - pass the what.cd interview, participate & keep a good ratio for a few months, and you can start discreetly asking for invites to bottom-level private trackers and working your way up the chain.
It'll be interesting to see how the other, more private, private trackers deal with having their gatekeeper taken away…
posted by Pinback at 11:32 PM on November 19, 2016 [2 favorites]
It seems that way, which is immensely sad; we found a way to make an entire consumer industry post-scarcity, and the response from governmental authorities was to maintain scarcity by force in order to prop up the shambling voracious giant that is capitalism. It doesn't bode well for futuristic utopian visions like matter-replicators, down the line.In glass half full news; They built The Library of Alexandria.
They are trying to maintain scarcity by force
There will be battles lost, but you cannot unring these bells.
posted by fullerine at 1:34 AM on November 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
.
I know this is in no relation to the many deaths of important people this year, much less to what's going on globally and politically, but this doesn't lessen the loss I'm feeling, now that this website is gone. If I had to come up with five, or ten, websites that had a real influence on my life WCD would probably take side next to Metafilter.
It wasn't just the music (although I feel like a lost puppy without WCD already - my Spotify premium account is no way near the awesomeness of a music loving community when it comes to recommendations and news on new releases), it was also the rich information on artists, the fringe genres, the multiple releases of the same album (Spotify mostly offers a deluxe or remastered version (only), while there are numerous cases where I'd prefer the original mix.) and the access to a lot of media beyond just music that helped me in my studies and work.
There is just no comparable site out there and I'm afraid there won't be for a long time coming.
posted by bigendian at 1:51 AM on November 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
I know this is in no relation to the many deaths of important people this year, much less to what's going on globally and politically, but this doesn't lessen the loss I'm feeling, now that this website is gone. If I had to come up with five, or ten, websites that had a real influence on my life WCD would probably take side next to Metafilter.
It wasn't just the music (although I feel like a lost puppy without WCD already - my Spotify premium account is no way near the awesomeness of a music loving community when it comes to recommendations and news on new releases), it was also the rich information on artists, the fringe genres, the multiple releases of the same album (Spotify mostly offers a deluxe or remastered version (only), while there are numerous cases where I'd prefer the original mix.) and the access to a lot of media beyond just music that helped me in my studies and work.
There is just no comparable site out there and I'm afraid there won't be for a long time coming.
posted by bigendian at 1:51 AM on November 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
they also had an interview process through which anybody could apply for an invite
...unless one happened to be from a blacklisted country in which case it was invite only. Still, better than nothing, I suppose.
I love how you can just order whatever online
Sometimes you actually can't, or if you do you'd have to give 200€ to some eBay scalper for an out-of-print CD just to rip it once and then never use it again.
While What certainly didn't have everything and I'm confident there must be even more elitist means I'm unaware of to obtain the *really obscure* stuff, it sure did help a lot.
posted by Bangaioh at 3:48 AM on November 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
...unless one happened to be from a blacklisted country in which case it was invite only. Still, better than nothing, I suppose.
I love how you can just order whatever online
Sometimes you actually can't, or if you do you'd have to give 200€ to some eBay scalper for an out-of-print CD just to rip it once and then never use it again.
While What certainly didn't have everything and I'm confident there must be even more elitist means I'm unaware of to obtain the *really obscure* stuff, it sure did help a lot.
posted by Bangaioh at 3:48 AM on November 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
.
(Last I checked, I think my overall rating was in the 94th or 95th percentile, and my uploads and new artists added ratings were higher than that. When the more elitist something comes along, somebody please invite me.)
posted by box at 5:14 AM on November 20, 2016 [6 favorites]
(Last I checked, I think my overall rating was in the 94th or 95th percentile, and my uploads and new artists added ratings were higher than that. When the more elitist something comes along, somebody please invite me.)
posted by box at 5:14 AM on November 20, 2016 [6 favorites]
didn't *someone* have some sort of physical backup/mirror of this in an attic somewhere?
Even if 1 million tracks were 100MB each (way overestimated, I'm sure) that's what 100TB? 50 cheap hard drives? like $10k USD?
posted by lalochezia at 5:29 AM on November 20, 2016
Even if 1 million tracks were 100MB each (way overestimated, I'm sure) that's what 100TB? 50 cheap hard drives? like $10k USD?
posted by lalochezia at 5:29 AM on November 20, 2016
Folks looking for a replacement should check out Soulseek. Blast from the past and all that, I know, but it's going strong. What was appealingly curated and there's no replacement for that, but the selection on Soulseek is more comprehensive by a long shot. Yes, you no longer get the warm feeling of being part of a special club, but the idea that private torrent trackers have more music than public forms of file sharing has largely been more myth than reality.
At any rate, though I understand why one would read this as part of a capitalist program of artificial scarcity, free music is more accessible than ever. The post-scarcity music industry has been remarkably unsuccessful at reasserting control given how unambiguously they have the legal upper hand. It might presage battles we'll have in our imagined post-scarcity utopia, but I have a rather different read on who's winning this war.
posted by vathek at 5:59 AM on November 20, 2016 [5 favorites]
At any rate, though I understand why one would read this as part of a capitalist program of artificial scarcity, free music is more accessible than ever. The post-scarcity music industry has been remarkably unsuccessful at reasserting control given how unambiguously they have the legal upper hand. It might presage battles we'll have in our imagined post-scarcity utopia, but I have a rather different read on who's winning this war.
posted by vathek at 5:59 AM on November 20, 2016 [5 favorites]
> Even if 1 million tracks were 100MB each (way overestimated, I'm sure) that's what 100TB?
I'm not sure it's way overestimated. I think a fair estimate for a single V0 MP3 album is somewhere between 50 and 100MB. But it's (over) a million releases, and many releases had files in FLAC and MP3 in 320kbps, V0 and V2. But lets say 100TB. Still, you'd want some redundancy because if you wanted to invest heavily in archiving everything you probably wouldn't want to run the risk of losing significant chunks because of a faulty hard drive.
And then because of the ratio system you wouldn't be able to just download everything. So it kind of hinges on someone running the site wanting to set up some sort of backup/syncing system for all those torrents being added and the associated webpages and having about $20k in spare hard drives and some beefy (hardware) infrastructure to keep them connected, running and syncing.
It's not unthinkable, but seems like a long shot.
posted by bjrn at 6:02 AM on November 20, 2016
I'm not sure it's way overestimated. I think a fair estimate for a single V0 MP3 album is somewhere between 50 and 100MB. But it's (over) a million releases, and many releases had files in FLAC and MP3 in 320kbps, V0 and V2. But lets say 100TB. Still, you'd want some redundancy because if you wanted to invest heavily in archiving everything you probably wouldn't want to run the risk of losing significant chunks because of a faulty hard drive.
And then because of the ratio system you wouldn't be able to just download everything. So it kind of hinges on someone running the site wanting to set up some sort of backup/syncing system for all those torrents being added and the associated webpages and having about $20k in spare hard drives and some beefy (hardware) infrastructure to keep them connected, running and syncing.
It's not unthinkable, but seems like a long shot.
posted by bjrn at 6:02 AM on November 20, 2016
.
Even though its end was inevitable that it happened at this particular point in time is rough. As mentioned upthread, if I had to list 5 websites or web entities that have influenced my life, what.cd (and metafilter) would be there.
For the uninitiated, it was extremely well-curated music collection, like no other site. No payments required. Anything that was ever released, and in 192 K/B quality or better (roughly around what's available on amazon mp3s)... there were many, many other very obscure rules and preferred practices); it was available.
Each Album/EP has its own release page, where users commented on the release (The quality of these discussions were better than youtube, usually not as here. Violetrol was a rariety) even a user-based recommendation engine for releases that based on whether you had any releases in common.
For seminal releases like 'Kind of Blue', Nevermind, The Wall, and Ladies of the Canyon that had multiple re-releases following their initial debuts, all of them were on what: original vinyl transfers that were digitized (the ability to listen to vinyl-only releases, gah, I'll deeply miss that), re-releases that contained different masterings, releases exclusive to Japan, or ones with bonus tracks, usually in lossless (no degregation in its transfer from disc or vinyl to digital files) quality.
The content!
Although dominated by 1990s-present Western rock and electronic, what had music from all genres and eras. Singer-songwriters from Brooklyn, Kiwi and Senegalese hip-hop, dubstep from Bristol, Japanese Psychadelic, any of the obscure, niche subgenres mentioned in The Wire or Wax Poetics). Big band and ragtime 78s from the 20s and 30s.
What.cd's community were the Robin Hoods of out of print work.
Works that previously never available to the public or only available for hundreds of dollars on ebay or were physically limited to 50something Cassettes, available digitally for the first time.
Numerous bands' original demos, works that made think 'what, does this even exist' like Ken Synder's By Request Only
There were releases that weren't even listed on databases like rateyourmusic, discogs, musicbrainz or even nowhere else on the internet. Things like The French Connection, a 2001 hip-hop one-time collaboration of Philadelphia rapper Baby Blak and Algerian singer/songwriter DJ Djamel, never publicly released, that was shared by a disgruntled ex-major label exec. Out of print records like this hip-hop record by Example was shared by the artist himself before it was finally publicly re-released a couple years later in 2013.
Collections with a theme were also available and in depth. Some fact-based, others were curated listed of American Groove nuggets that featured mid-century American funk, blues, or cross-genre gems that would have been forgotten or only revived by labels like Numero and light in the attic.
Over 275 releases from the Nurse With Wounds list were there.
There were hundreds (or even a couple thousand?) releases tagged with the Vanity House tag, releases that were recorded, composed, or created by what members. There were also a handful of compilation albums put out by what featuring the Vanity House artists.
The depth and quality of content was strengthened by the request system, where users contributed bounties of site upload credit (you were able to give 90 mb on a request for every 100mb of data that you uploaded)
and request specific editions (or even specific file quality) of those releases. My request for a Chappell Music Library CD containing songs featured in ESPN's NFL Primetime was fulfilled just 2-3 weeks ago. This was 6-7 years after I originally made the request.
This also encouraged the release of highly anticipated commercial albums days or even weeks before their retail date.
If you ever recorded music (especially if it was released since the site's inception in 2007), there was a chance that it could have been on what.cd at one point.
posted by fizzix at 7:33 AM on November 20, 2016 [15 favorites]
Even though its end was inevitable that it happened at this particular point in time is rough. As mentioned upthread, if I had to list 5 websites or web entities that have influenced my life, what.cd (and metafilter) would be there.
For the uninitiated, it was extremely well-curated music collection, like no other site. No payments required. Anything that was ever released, and in 192 K/B quality or better (roughly around what's available on amazon mp3s)... there were many, many other very obscure rules and preferred practices); it was available.
Each Album/EP has its own release page, where users commented on the release (The quality of these discussions were better than youtube, usually not as here. Violetrol was a rariety) even a user-based recommendation engine for releases that based on whether you had any releases in common.
For seminal releases like 'Kind of Blue', Nevermind, The Wall, and Ladies of the Canyon that had multiple re-releases following their initial debuts, all of them were on what: original vinyl transfers that were digitized (the ability to listen to vinyl-only releases, gah, I'll deeply miss that), re-releases that contained different masterings, releases exclusive to Japan, or ones with bonus tracks, usually in lossless (no degregation in its transfer from disc or vinyl to digital files) quality.
The content!
Although dominated by 1990s-present Western rock and electronic, what had music from all genres and eras. Singer-songwriters from Brooklyn, Kiwi and Senegalese hip-hop, dubstep from Bristol, Japanese Psychadelic, any of the obscure, niche subgenres mentioned in The Wire or Wax Poetics). Big band and ragtime 78s from the 20s and 30s.
What.cd's community were the Robin Hoods of out of print work.
Works that previously never available to the public or only available for hundreds of dollars on ebay or were physically limited to 50something Cassettes, available digitally for the first time.
Numerous bands' original demos, works that made think 'what, does this even exist' like Ken Synder's By Request Only
There were releases that weren't even listed on databases like rateyourmusic, discogs, musicbrainz or even nowhere else on the internet. Things like The French Connection, a 2001 hip-hop one-time collaboration of Philadelphia rapper Baby Blak and Algerian singer/songwriter DJ Djamel, never publicly released, that was shared by a disgruntled ex-major label exec. Out of print records like this hip-hop record by Example was shared by the artist himself before it was finally publicly re-released a couple years later in 2013.
Collections with a theme were also available and in depth. Some fact-based, others were curated listed of American Groove nuggets that featured mid-century American funk, blues, or cross-genre gems that would have been forgotten or only revived by labels like Numero and light in the attic.
Over 275 releases from the Nurse With Wounds list were there.
There were hundreds (or even a couple thousand?) releases tagged with the Vanity House tag, releases that were recorded, composed, or created by what members. There were also a handful of compilation albums put out by what featuring the Vanity House artists.
The depth and quality of content was strengthened by the request system, where users contributed bounties of site upload credit (you were able to give 90 mb on a request for every 100mb of data that you uploaded)
and request specific editions (or even specific file quality) of those releases. My request for a Chappell Music Library CD containing songs featured in ESPN's NFL Primetime was fulfilled just 2-3 weeks ago. This was 6-7 years after I originally made the request.
This also encouraged the release of highly anticipated commercial albums days or even weeks before their retail date.
If you ever recorded music (especially if it was released since the site's inception in 2007), there was a chance that it could have been on what.cd at one point.
posted by fizzix at 7:33 AM on November 20, 2016 [15 favorites]
we found a way to make an entire consumer industry post-scarcity, and the response from governmental authorities was to maintain scarcity by force in order to prop up the shambling voracious giant that is capitalism.
Well, no, you found a way to not pay for things that other people paid to have created. Don't pretend that torrenting magically solved the fact that artists have to eat and that if only the man hadn't shut down this site we'd be in a musical utopia, because that's not true.
I'm aware that you're a content creator (and a quite good one at that), but be aware that having a financial situation and lifestyle that allows you to create and give away work is one of privilege. I've also worked with and been friends with great musicians that had to give up their potential because of having to make a living. Similarly, I've known owners of some great indy labels that lost significant amounts of money trying to bring great music to the world. Some of them would certainly have failed regardless of illicit downloads but they also make a great number of businesses that were marginal to begin with unsustainable.
posted by Candleman at 9:02 AM on November 20, 2016 [7 favorites]
Well, no, you found a way to not pay for things that other people paid to have created. Don't pretend that torrenting magically solved the fact that artists have to eat and that if only the man hadn't shut down this site we'd be in a musical utopia, because that's not true.
I'm aware that you're a content creator (and a quite good one at that), but be aware that having a financial situation and lifestyle that allows you to create and give away work is one of privilege. I've also worked with and been friends with great musicians that had to give up their potential because of having to make a living. Similarly, I've known owners of some great indy labels that lost significant amounts of money trying to bring great music to the world. Some of them would certainly have failed regardless of illicit downloads but they also make a great number of businesses that were marginal to begin with unsustainable.
posted by Candleman at 9:02 AM on November 20, 2016 [7 favorites]
I am forever grateful for what.cd
Along with last.fm it helped me broaden my musical horizons. No matter how obscure the artist, you could almost always find their discography on there.
I'm also sad that I never got to become a power user. I tried in my spare time to fill requests, but I was too busy with work and other things.
posted by 81818181818181818181 at 9:07 AM on November 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
Along with last.fm it helped me broaden my musical horizons. No matter how obscure the artist, you could almost always find their discography on there.
I'm also sad that I never got to become a power user. I tried in my spare time to fill requests, but I was too busy with work and other things.
posted by 81818181818181818181 at 9:07 AM on November 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
I would have recommended Waffles, but that site seems to be MIA now. Anyone know if that is dead?
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:14 AM on November 20, 2016
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:14 AM on November 20, 2016
Official Waffles twitter page has status info, and Ars Technica has more information on the closure of What.CD:
posted by filthy light thief at 9:27 AM on November 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
"The facts are pretty skimpy right now," What.cd's representative says. "We have no official confirmation that servers were seized, but all available evidence does support that, so we are operating as if it is true." That being said, What.cd's administrators are confident that its major database of user information was not seized by French authorities: "The site was operational until we shut it down."And Torrent Freak has a bit more information:
Today the French Society of Authors, Composers, and Publishers of Music (SACEM) officially confirmed the raid. The music group informs TorrentFreak that 12 servers were targeted by the police.The most surprising thing is how long What.CD lasted. OiNK's Pink Palace survived less than 3 and a half years, while What.CD was up for just over 9 years, and it was only in last two years that they were under investigation. Many trackers have come and gone in that time period. There's an alternative that should come back online, and the folks behind What.CD might create something new, if they're not brought down by this investigation.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:27 AM on November 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
I pay more money for music now than I did before illicit downloading. A big part of this is that the internet has made the gatekeepers less relevant, and I have spent more time developing a genuine love of music--which I would not have if the majority of my music exposure was only through completely legal sources.
Which are, by the way, patchy, incomplete, and often restricted in arbitrary ways. Not to mention the inequality inherent in more money meaning better access to culture.
But whatever, I think reasonable people can have opinions on what is right in this situation. I personally wish we lived in a world where art was a public good, rather than locked away and, in this case, sometimes actually obliterated by capitalism.
When it comes to this issue, people who are anti-piracy have a very good point that artists deserve to be compensated (which I agree with), but the mechanisms that we currently have to do that are terrible and unsustainable. There is greed on both sides hampering progress here--people who want stuff for free, rights holders who want to squeeze every penny crippling alternative services. The system is in the process of collapse and cracking down on consumers isn't going to save it.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 9:29 AM on November 20, 2016 [9 favorites]
Which are, by the way, patchy, incomplete, and often restricted in arbitrary ways. Not to mention the inequality inherent in more money meaning better access to culture.
But whatever, I think reasonable people can have opinions on what is right in this situation. I personally wish we lived in a world where art was a public good, rather than locked away and, in this case, sometimes actually obliterated by capitalism.
When it comes to this issue, people who are anti-piracy have a very good point that artists deserve to be compensated (which I agree with), but the mechanisms that we currently have to do that are terrible and unsustainable. There is greed on both sides hampering progress here--people who want stuff for free, rights holders who want to squeeze every penny crippling alternative services. The system is in the process of collapse and cracking down on consumers isn't going to save it.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 9:29 AM on November 20, 2016 [9 favorites]
the selection on Soulseek is more comprehensive by a long shot. Yes, you no longer get the warm feeling of being part of a special club, but the idea that private torrent trackers have more music than public forms of file sharing has largely been more myth than reality.
Depends on what you're looking for maybe? This is not quite my experience (comparing to the late stages of WCD) but I also don't know my way around Soulseek that well.
posted by atoxyl at 12:06 PM on November 20, 2016
Depends on what you're looking for maybe? This is not quite my experience (comparing to the late stages of WCD) but I also don't know my way around Soulseek that well.
posted by atoxyl at 12:06 PM on November 20, 2016
.
posted by dogstoevski at 12:07 PM on November 20, 2016
posted by dogstoevski at 12:07 PM on November 20, 2016
I remember in the 90s being the tech wizard that could burn cds at home! It only takes 20 minutes too, I even had a label machine. So people in the local scene would bring me their demo tapes, home studio stuff recorded on pawn shop quality equipment by broke kids.
CD-Rs we marketed as an immortal medium that will last 'til the end of time, though anyone with experience will tell you that is utter bullshit. That ten pack I burnt twenty years ago, they are probably unplayable by now.
But I still have the mp3s, both here and backed up offsite. Not in the damn cloud either, on an air gapped hard drive at a friends house. I feel like it's a big responsibility, like a museum curator or something. Coming from that mindset, I super doubt the spirit of WCD will ever die. People feel the duty call them and they'll find a way.
posted by adept256 at 12:33 PM on November 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
CD-Rs we marketed as an immortal medium that will last 'til the end of time, though anyone with experience will tell you that is utter bullshit. That ten pack I burnt twenty years ago, they are probably unplayable by now.
But I still have the mp3s, both here and backed up offsite. Not in the damn cloud either, on an air gapped hard drive at a friends house. I feel like it's a big responsibility, like a museum curator or something. Coming from that mindset, I super doubt the spirit of WCD will ever die. People feel the duty call them and they'll find a way.
posted by adept256 at 12:33 PM on November 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
I never joined but I'd heard of it. I could've passed all the tests, and my upload ratio is always pretty stellar.
There will always be a new head on the hydra. Fear not.
That doesn't mean I wouldn't love an invite though!
posted by schyler523 at 5:08 PM on November 20, 2016
There will always be a new head on the hydra. Fear not.
That doesn't mean I wouldn't love an invite though!
posted by schyler523 at 5:08 PM on November 20, 2016
i would not say no to an invite to another torrent site
posted by SansPoint at 5:51 PM on November 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by SansPoint at 5:51 PM on November 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
Art wants to be free!
Get your free art for only $9.99 a month or $100 for a full year!
posted by turbid dahlia at 6:31 PM on November 20, 2016
Get your free art for only $9.99 a month or $100 for a full year!
posted by turbid dahlia at 6:31 PM on November 20, 2016
There's been some action at waffles.ch Not much but it's better than it was.
posted by ashbury at 8:17 PM on November 20, 2016
posted by ashbury at 8:17 PM on November 20, 2016
Waffles has been down for unrelated reasons but it sounds like it may be coming back? I'm not on Waffles though so...
posted by atoxyl at 9:16 PM on November 20, 2016
posted by atoxyl at 9:16 PM on November 20, 2016
One of the best things about private music trackers is the attention to detail when it comes to ripping standards, encoding standards, ID3 tags, etc. More than Soulseek, public trackers, and even surpassing many paid online music vendors. I guess iTunes and Amazon have mostly caught up by now and Bandcamp is great, but private trackers had been way ahead of the game on the quality front.
Music nerds are some of the best sticklers for these little details. Heck, we built the entire Discogs database out of a shared obsessive compulsion. I don't torrent much anymore, but these smaller obsessive communities of music nerds will always be more fun than something like Spotify.
posted by p3t3 at 12:31 AM on November 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
Music nerds are some of the best sticklers for these little details. Heck, we built the entire Discogs database out of a shared obsessive compulsion. I don't torrent much anymore, but these smaller obsessive communities of music nerds will always be more fun than something like Spotify.
posted by p3t3 at 12:31 AM on November 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
RIP in peace.
posted by Evstar at 7:19 AM on November 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Evstar at 7:19 AM on November 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
I was a veteran of OiNK and whatcd and I am super bummed that it is gone. I even had a long list of torrent links of rare items to download, eventually...
The focus on quality and classification, the variants, the rarities made whatcd special. But it was the hugely diverse pool of users with deep and varied tastes that kept me coming back daily.
I guess back to waffles, when it comes back up...
posted by Theta States at 8:34 AM on November 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
The focus on quality and classification, the variants, the rarities made whatcd special. But it was the hugely diverse pool of users with deep and varied tastes that kept me coming back daily.
I guess back to waffles, when it comes back up...
posted by Theta States at 8:34 AM on November 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
p3t3: I guess iTunes and Amazon have mostly caught up by now and Bandcamp is great
Technical geekery: iTunes has improved from their earlier days of offering 128 kbps files, and their AAC are ABR 256-ish (it's masked as 256 kbps CBR for some reason, but if you strip off the metadata with something like Atomic Parsley, the "true" bitrate is shown), while Amazon has a variety of encoder settings, including V0, V0-like ABR, and 256 kbps CBR.
Bandcamp is great for offering native lossless, but that's only as good as the files that are uploaded. Some lossless files are 24 kbps, depending on what was uploaded, but that's not stated on the release pages (as of yet, at least). At the same time, the files are only as good as what is uploaded. They discourage against people turning lossy MP3s into lossless files ("The resulting audio will not sound good and fans expecting to get a high-quality download will be disappointed. Some will (rightfully) demand a refund."), but there are transcodes.
If this means anything to you, I'll note that Google Play files are 320 kbps CBR MP3s, and you can get lossless files from Qobuz and Tidal.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:37 AM on November 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
Technical geekery: iTunes has improved from their earlier days of offering 128 kbps files, and their AAC are ABR 256-ish (it's masked as 256 kbps CBR for some reason, but if you strip off the metadata with something like Atomic Parsley, the "true" bitrate is shown), while Amazon has a variety of encoder settings, including V0, V0-like ABR, and 256 kbps CBR.
Bandcamp is great for offering native lossless, but that's only as good as the files that are uploaded. Some lossless files are 24 kbps, depending on what was uploaded, but that's not stated on the release pages (as of yet, at least). At the same time, the files are only as good as what is uploaded. They discourage against people turning lossy MP3s into lossless files ("The resulting audio will not sound good and fans expecting to get a high-quality download will be disappointed. Some will (rightfully) demand a refund."), but there are transcodes.
If this means anything to you, I'll note that Google Play files are 320 kbps CBR MP3s, and you can get lossless files from Qobuz and Tidal.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:37 AM on November 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
There's only so much you can do about people's lossy masters though - that's not really a knock on Bandcamp. To hell with streaming but I've always liked Bandcamp.
(I believe WCD did accept lossy masters if it was the only version. I'm good with 320 anyway but I appreciate the archival value of FLAC.)
posted by atoxyl at 10:22 AM on November 21, 2016
(I believe WCD did accept lossy masters if it was the only version. I'm good with 320 anyway but I appreciate the archival value of FLAC.)
posted by atoxyl at 10:22 AM on November 21, 2016
I was a frequent contributor to the K-pop section of WCD. And before than on Oink. I'm, like, lost now. Where to go next?
posted by starscream at 5:08 PM on November 21, 2016
posted by starscream at 5:08 PM on November 21, 2016
The thought of all that otherwise unavailable music disappearing is heartbreaking. Get it on the streaming services somehow.
posted by persona au gratin at 11:25 PM on November 21, 2016
posted by persona au gratin at 11:25 PM on November 21, 2016
Technical geekery: iTunes has improved from their earlier days of offering 128 kbps files, and their AAC are ABR 256-ish (it's masked as 256 kbps CBR for some reason, but if you strip off the metadata with something like Atomic Parsley, the "true" bitrate is shown), while Amazon has a variety of encoder settings, including V0, V0-like ABR, and 256 kbps CBR.More technical geekery: AAC doesn't have a CBR mode; the closest you can get is a very constrained ABR.
Lot of people - including audio software pros - either don't know that, don't know how to correctly parse or write the stream flags for that info (lots of libraries used to be guilty of that), or just take the lazy way out and call it "CBR".
posted by Pinback at 5:28 PM on November 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
Where to go next?
Developing consensus seems to be PTH.
posted by ryanrs at 6:21 PM on November 28, 2016
Developing consensus seems to be PTH.
posted by ryanrs at 6:21 PM on November 28, 2016
It's the apparent successor to What.cd. Go check the special forums on your other trackers, although you'll probably have to wait until they open up membership a bit more.
As is standard for these sorts of sites, responding to public invite requests is forbidden (and taking it memail won't work either). But if you were a contributing member of what.cd and the larger private tracker ecosystem, you'll find your way in eventually.
posted by ryanrs at 12:22 PM on November 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
As is standard for these sorts of sites, responding to public invite requests is forbidden (and taking it memail won't work either). But if you were a contributing member of what.cd and the larger private tracker ecosystem, you'll find your way in eventually.
posted by ryanrs at 12:22 PM on November 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
I have heard that PTH has been shaping up well and that there is one called Apollo as well, that is currently easier to get into.
posted by OmieWise at 11:24 AM on December 15, 2016
posted by OmieWise at 11:24 AM on December 15, 2016
PTH is recruiting from other well-regarded trackers and keeping a tight economy, whereas Apollo is giving out lots of invites and doing a long-running site-wide freeleech. So PTH feels a lot more What-like (down to the default site theme).
PTH's biggest issue right now is that nobody is getting snatches, because they're mostly recruiting people who already have huge music collections. I figure that'll sort itself out as the site grows. It's easier to open up a tight ratio economy with staff picks and such, than it is to shrink the sort of buffer inflation going on at Apollo. (But I was recruited on Bib, so of course I'd think that, heh.)
posted by ryanrs at 11:53 PM on December 17, 2016
PTH's biggest issue right now is that nobody is getting snatches, because they're mostly recruiting people who already have huge music collections. I figure that'll sort itself out as the site grows. It's easier to open up a tight ratio economy with staff picks and such, than it is to shrink the sort of buffer inflation going on at Apollo. (But I was recruited on Bib, so of course I'd think that, heh.)
posted by ryanrs at 11:53 PM on December 17, 2016
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This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
IMO, what was far superior to oink and the leadership/admins seemed to be wonderful people with a clear and shared vision of what they wanted. That and the fact that they had contingency plans for protecting (hopefully) themselves and the membership from prosecution.
what was a daily visit for me and I'll miss it immensely. They had a good long run, though.
I fear that we'll not see its like again in a long time.
posted by ashbury at 4:07 PM on November 19, 2016 [11 favorites]