Before Whale Chugs and Teku Glasses
November 20, 2016 10:33 PM Subscribe
When Did Rarity Start to Equal Greatness in Beer? Today, however, Duvel doesn’t even graze the “Top Beers” list. While it’s still well-regarded, by now its acclaim has been buried under a dogpile of state-of-the-art hoppy pale ales, imperial stouts and fruited sour ales. In fact, in the years since I started considering myself a “beer geek” (and the term became part of the lexicon), the craft beer industry has shape-shifted remarkably, especially among the cognoscenti. But how, exactly?
The Beer Advocate list is a compilation of non-blinded consumer ratings, which has to account for at least some of the bias towards rare brews. I'm sure some places would change if blind tastings were required.
posted by Small Dollar at 11:09 PM on November 20, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by Small Dollar at 11:09 PM on November 20, 2016 [10 favorites]
I had a Heady Topper, a Trillium Vicinity, and a Highland Park 1UP a couple weeks ago. IN SEOUL.
The world is smaller, and those beers was good.
I still love Founder's Centennial IPA, though. Ain't old hat to me at all.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 12:22 AM on November 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
The world is smaller, and those beers was good.
I still love Founder's Centennial IPA, though. Ain't old hat to me at all.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 12:22 AM on November 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
A month or two ago there was a post about a young guy reselling sneakers to rap stars and such. The takeaway in that article was that design took a back seat to rarity when it came to demand and price. And there are more than enough people out there who think that all mainstream music sucks and only their unknown favorites are good. I think people just want to feel special.
posted by Literaryhero at 12:57 AM on November 21, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by Literaryhero at 12:57 AM on November 21, 2016 [10 favorites]
As someone with a pile of crazy-rare beers I'm slowly working my way through, I gotta say that probably about 60-75% of them are close to worth the hype. The effort, maybe not so much, depends on how much you love a given style. Like, I had a whole pint of Russian River Pliny the Younger once. The best IPA I've ever had, and probably will ever have - you could taste all sorts of amazing hop characteristics, all at the same time and in amazing balance. But I only got it because I donated to a raffle and won it as a prize, and I have zero interest in seeking it out again because unless you live in Santa Rosa, it's a giant pain to get any of.
Great beers can be rare because the ingredients involved, either in rarity or cost, make them prohibitive to make at scale. They could also be rare because the brewery just doesn't make that much or distribute that wide. Craftsman Brewing in Pasadena makes some of the best beer I've ever had, but since the guy seems to hate selling a single drop, you can't really find it outside of Lucky Baldwin's in Pasadena. A lot of these are products of tireless obsession or quirks of production and supply, and you can't just summon a few thousand barrels of something like that into existence.
Also, I think both the author is missing the point of these lists. There's something to be said for a great beer that just nails that ESB, non-Imperial stout, or plain-Jane pale ale style, but lists like that are not about celebrating the refinement of every style to its ultimate peak. There are other lists - on BA.com - that do that. (The lamented absence of Fuller's ESB from the Best Beers list is immediately rectified by its #4 slot on the best ESB list.) They are about the beers that push the limits of the beverage and create something really unique and off-the-charts delicious. Fuller's ESB is my desert island beer without a doubt - but it's not even close to the best beer I've had.
Also, for someone so worried about how beer snobs are ruining enjoying a good cold one, the author spends a lot of time looking at BA.com instead of ordering whatever looks different, interesting, new, or just plain good and enjoying a pint.
posted by Punkey at 1:06 AM on November 21, 2016 [8 favorites]
Great beers can be rare because the ingredients involved, either in rarity or cost, make them prohibitive to make at scale. They could also be rare because the brewery just doesn't make that much or distribute that wide. Craftsman Brewing in Pasadena makes some of the best beer I've ever had, but since the guy seems to hate selling a single drop, you can't really find it outside of Lucky Baldwin's in Pasadena. A lot of these are products of tireless obsession or quirks of production and supply, and you can't just summon a few thousand barrels of something like that into existence.
Also, I think both the author is missing the point of these lists. There's something to be said for a great beer that just nails that ESB, non-Imperial stout, or plain-Jane pale ale style, but lists like that are not about celebrating the refinement of every style to its ultimate peak. There are other lists - on BA.com - that do that. (The lamented absence of Fuller's ESB from the Best Beers list is immediately rectified by its #4 slot on the best ESB list.) They are about the beers that push the limits of the beverage and create something really unique and off-the-charts delicious. Fuller's ESB is my desert island beer without a doubt - but it's not even close to the best beer I've had.
Also, for someone so worried about how beer snobs are ruining enjoying a good cold one, the author spends a lot of time looking at BA.com instead of ordering whatever looks different, interesting, new, or just plain good and enjoying a pint.
posted by Punkey at 1:06 AM on November 21, 2016 [8 favorites]
Recently found a bottle of 'Old Engine Oil'. A damn fine stout I'd not heard of before. Then there's the Lammsbräu at the local 'Bio' grocery - that's the finest pilsner made. Second only to cold beer at the end of a long, hot day of physical work. That beer is the finest beer.
posted by From Bklyn at 1:11 AM on November 21, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by From Bklyn at 1:11 AM on November 21, 2016 [3 favorites]
I feel so hopelessly out of touch when it comes to beer. I've just started to get a feel for hoppy beers, and then the last time I'm in America visiting family last summer, I find out that the meta has evolved and now the way you show off what an S-rank beer drink you are is by caring deeply about sour beers, and suddenly I feel like I am just falling behind at an accelerating pace
posted by DoctorFedora at 1:13 AM on November 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by DoctorFedora at 1:13 AM on November 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
That's why I don't give a fuck and drink whatever I can get my hands on that sounds good. :D
I'm actually super-pleased to see more top-notch brewers taking swings at stuff like session IPAs, ESBs, pales, and normal stouts. Stuff that I can just, you know, have one of, without having to commit myself to a glass of something with an ABV closer to whiskey than beer.
posted by Punkey at 1:17 AM on November 21, 2016 [10 favorites]
I'm actually super-pleased to see more top-notch brewers taking swings at stuff like session IPAs, ESBs, pales, and normal stouts. Stuff that I can just, you know, have one of, without having to commit myself to a glass of something with an ABV closer to whiskey than beer.
posted by Punkey at 1:17 AM on November 21, 2016 [10 favorites]
I didn't start drinking beer until I moved to a state known for its great beer scene, and it took me a while to figure out what I like in a beer. I also didn't have a beer-drinking social circle before then, so I was pretty unaware of the social connotations of different types of beers.
It turns out what I like cuts a pretty wide swathe across less common and more common, less trendy and more trendy.
There are some rare beers I already miss. Also, some rare beers that I never, never want to drink again.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 1:56 AM on November 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
It turns out what I like cuts a pretty wide swathe across less common and more common, less trendy and more trendy.
There are some rare beers I already miss. Also, some rare beers that I never, never want to drink again.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 1:56 AM on November 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
Rare <> Good. That said, there are probably more rare beers that do taste good, and a lot of that has to do with the effort put into the brewing. Staple lagers are homogenised to buggery, so it's not surprising that they are bland in comparison.
I'm a big fan of really crazy bitter, hoppy beers, and a lot of beer snobs will frown on that. That's OK. There's plenty of room on the beer scene to accommodate all of us.
posted by trif at 2:27 AM on November 21, 2016
I'm a big fan of really crazy bitter, hoppy beers, and a lot of beer snobs will frown on that. That's OK. There's plenty of room on the beer scene to accommodate all of us.
posted by trif at 2:27 AM on November 21, 2016
There are beer snobs who frown on really hoppy beers? Really? I am incredulous mostly because the idea seems almost incomprehensible to me
posted by DoctorFedora at 2:45 AM on November 21, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by DoctorFedora at 2:45 AM on November 21, 2016 [8 favorites]
Duvel has been a very good beer for a very long time. It dates back to the era of Belgian breweries trying to figure shit out without all the copper the Imperial German army looted, though has always been a secular, and thus cheaper, Westmalle Triple to pound when you want to get smashed faster than 'pintjes' (standard pils beer) will let you. I think this dude has got a point that the increased availability of Belgian beer on the American market has probably had a significant effect on its place in the American mindset, but people have slowly been thinking less of Duvel here in Belgium as well. Duvel hasn't changed, the market has. Its place in Faculty bars as the catch up beer for students and the good secular strong beer for grownups to drink like wine but be beer is being displaced by newer breweries doing the same thing arguably better like Omer as well as a huge array of both newer styles and older ones being done better at commercial scales that new technology suddenly makes sense.
Just like everywhere else, there is a new generation of younger brewers crazy enough to start breweries who are attracting capital and doing really interesting things. How they're doing it is pretty radically different here with the weird way even small breweries can turn a profit on bottles, and the largely static but already hyper-competitive premium market they're entering, but the displacing effect is similar. I suspect though that the hemorrhaging of Duvel's market share will decelerate again here just for the sheer weight of how much cultural resonance the beer has, even though its not alone anymore. For example kids who join the scouts, which is basically everyone, learn how to hold up a pinky on your dominant hand to order one standard pils beer and to hold up additional fingers with your other hand over the first to order more. While there are hand signs for all sorts of beers that kids have come up with over time, the only other one bartenders will pretty universally recognize having been scouts themselves is for Duvel with a pinky and thumb sticking out to represent devil horns.
posted by Blasdelb at 2:48 AM on November 21, 2016 [17 favorites]
Just like everywhere else, there is a new generation of younger brewers crazy enough to start breweries who are attracting capital and doing really interesting things. How they're doing it is pretty radically different here with the weird way even small breweries can turn a profit on bottles, and the largely static but already hyper-competitive premium market they're entering, but the displacing effect is similar. I suspect though that the hemorrhaging of Duvel's market share will decelerate again here just for the sheer weight of how much cultural resonance the beer has, even though its not alone anymore. For example kids who join the scouts, which is basically everyone, learn how to hold up a pinky on your dominant hand to order one standard pils beer and to hold up additional fingers with your other hand over the first to order more. While there are hand signs for all sorts of beers that kids have come up with over time, the only other one bartenders will pretty universally recognize having been scouts themselves is for Duvel with a pinky and thumb sticking out to represent devil horns.
posted by Blasdelb at 2:48 AM on November 21, 2016 [17 favorites]
You have completely lost me about the Scouts, Duvel and the finger signalling. Where is that applicable? Are Belgian Scouts actually a drinking club for kids? (i'm joking, but the general question remains for me)
posted by trif at 3:08 AM on November 21, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by trif at 3:08 AM on November 21, 2016 [3 favorites]
Damn, I still have a neckerchief somewhere!
posted by wenestvedt at 3:19 AM on November 21, 2016
posted by wenestvedt at 3:19 AM on November 21, 2016
So that story inspired me to look it up and I found out that "Duvel" is apparently named for a regional dialect word for "devil"
Neat
posted by DoctorFedora at 3:20 AM on November 21, 2016 [3 favorites]
Neat
posted by DoctorFedora at 3:20 AM on November 21, 2016 [3 favorites]
From the article: "the “Extra Special Bitter”—a low-ABV, balanced English ale".
I mean, I guess it's low ABV compared to triple IPAs and imperial stouts, but it's the high ABV British beer style. A low ABV, lighter bitter is a session bitter, you might also do a slightly heavier and maltier standard bitter, and then your thick, rich, high ABV premium beer is your special bitter. You might think yours is extra special, in which case you could make that claim in your naming, I suppose.
The best beer I've ever had is Fuller's ESB. But Fuller's ESB is not necessarily the best beer. When I was at uni, I was involved in the university Real Ale society. We ran a beer festival. One year, we were sponsored by Fuller's, and ended up with a firkin of Golden Pride (normally only available to Fuller's pubs, by raffle - in cask, I mean, it's not too hard to come by bottled), a firkin of London Pride, and three firkins of ESB among the hundred or so different beers we had. Now, I like ESB. Don't much care for Golden Pride (too sweet) and London Pride can be amazing, but seems to normally be very very bland (it's temperamental with how it's kept). But the top left cask of ESB was special. Really, really special. The best beer I've ever had. Malt, marmelade, a well-balanced bitterness - it was just gorgeous. I kept coming back to that one cask across the three days of the festival (despite ESB being regularly available in local pubs, unlike so many of the other beers there) because it was really just amazing. The other two casks were definitely above average ESB, which means very good beer indeed, but they weren't as special. Given we were treated so incredibly well by Fuller's throughout, I do wonder if there was some special treatment involved, or if we just lucked the fuck out.
posted by Dysk at 3:30 AM on November 21, 2016 [8 favorites]
I mean, I guess it's low ABV compared to triple IPAs and imperial stouts, but it's the high ABV British beer style. A low ABV, lighter bitter is a session bitter, you might also do a slightly heavier and maltier standard bitter, and then your thick, rich, high ABV premium beer is your special bitter. You might think yours is extra special, in which case you could make that claim in your naming, I suppose.
The best beer I've ever had is Fuller's ESB. But Fuller's ESB is not necessarily the best beer. When I was at uni, I was involved in the university Real Ale society. We ran a beer festival. One year, we were sponsored by Fuller's, and ended up with a firkin of Golden Pride (normally only available to Fuller's pubs, by raffle - in cask, I mean, it's not too hard to come by bottled), a firkin of London Pride, and three firkins of ESB among the hundred or so different beers we had. Now, I like ESB. Don't much care for Golden Pride (too sweet) and London Pride can be amazing, but seems to normally be very very bland (it's temperamental with how it's kept). But the top left cask of ESB was special. Really, really special. The best beer I've ever had. Malt, marmelade, a well-balanced bitterness - it was just gorgeous. I kept coming back to that one cask across the three days of the festival (despite ESB being regularly available in local pubs, unlike so many of the other beers there) because it was really just amazing. The other two casks were definitely above average ESB, which means very good beer indeed, but they weren't as special. Given we were treated so incredibly well by Fuller's throughout, I do wonder if there was some special treatment involved, or if we just lucked the fuck out.
posted by Dysk at 3:30 AM on November 21, 2016 [8 favorites]
I'm actually super-pleased to see more top-notch brewers taking swings at stuff like session IPAs, ESBs, pales, and normal stouts. Stuff that I can just, you know, have one of, without having to commit myself to a glass of something with an ABV closer to whiskey than beer.
This.
I've been a fan of IPA from way back, long before "IPA" meant "bottle filled with hops." Whenever I'm asked what sorts of beers I like, I'm almost afraid to admit to liking IPAs, because I'm not a fan of what so many people think of as an IPA today. It's just no fun drinking a pint of pine resin with a 12% ABV.
posted by Thorzdad at 3:33 AM on November 21, 2016 [21 favorites]
This.
I've been a fan of IPA from way back, long before "IPA" meant "bottle filled with hops." Whenever I'm asked what sorts of beers I like, I'm almost afraid to admit to liking IPAs, because I'm not a fan of what so many people think of as an IPA today. It's just no fun drinking a pint of pine resin with a 12% ABV.
posted by Thorzdad at 3:33 AM on November 21, 2016 [21 favorites]
Two years ago, I was talking with a craft brewer in western Mass, and I asked him why nobody in that world is making an ESB. He told me that, basically, it wasn't interesting enough to brew -- they the parameters of the style are well established, and that there's nothing that well appeal to craft brew aficionados. That seemed like a problem.
I started brewing this summer. Thanks to this thread, I'm reminded they I can be part of the solution. Going to give an ESB a try next weekend.
posted by .kobayashi. at 3:57 AM on November 21, 2016 [4 favorites]
I started brewing this summer. Thanks to this thread, I'm reminded they I can be part of the solution. Going to give an ESB a try next weekend.
posted by .kobayashi. at 3:57 AM on November 21, 2016 [4 favorites]
It's a phenomenon I've seen in other guy-oriented hobbies (beer, electronics, bikes... they don't have to be guy-only but usually end up that way, unfortunately).
You can develop a rep among your fellow aficionados by having a talent for skillfully reporting on your experiences and impressions, and having spent long enough time in the field to have a breadth of experiences to draw from. You'll have the personal character to perpetually suffer the newbies, tone down partisan arguments with a few choice words and be the go-to guy for some technical detail or personal anecdote.
Or you can be the guy who first-posts in every new product introduction to say you've already ordered it, and put it up for sale three months later because you're already churning through the next three hot things. Or, in the beer and wine hobbies, your profile page lists hundreds of regional drinks that other people can only wish they could have tried. But either way, your ability to describe what you had is limited to stock reviewers' phrases, and there's no sense of a personal experience having happened with this or that desirable, rare, well-crafted thing.
The latter hobbyists tend to get most of the attention and role-model status because despite their personal blandness and lack of critical faculties they're energetic and they've always already got all the current hot cool stuff, and they end up driving the conversations about qualitative aspects of their hobby. It takes a long time and some natural talent and skill to write concisely and critically, but only takes money and enough free time to to keep your bragging rights fresh.
posted by ardgedee at 3:59 AM on November 21, 2016 [14 favorites]
You can develop a rep among your fellow aficionados by having a talent for skillfully reporting on your experiences and impressions, and having spent long enough time in the field to have a breadth of experiences to draw from. You'll have the personal character to perpetually suffer the newbies, tone down partisan arguments with a few choice words and be the go-to guy for some technical detail or personal anecdote.
Or you can be the guy who first-posts in every new product introduction to say you've already ordered it, and put it up for sale three months later because you're already churning through the next three hot things. Or, in the beer and wine hobbies, your profile page lists hundreds of regional drinks that other people can only wish they could have tried. But either way, your ability to describe what you had is limited to stock reviewers' phrases, and there's no sense of a personal experience having happened with this or that desirable, rare, well-crafted thing.
The latter hobbyists tend to get most of the attention and role-model status because despite their personal blandness and lack of critical faculties they're energetic and they've always already got all the current hot cool stuff, and they end up driving the conversations about qualitative aspects of their hobby. It takes a long time and some natural talent and skill to write concisely and critically, but only takes money and enough free time to to keep your bragging rights fresh.
posted by ardgedee at 3:59 AM on November 21, 2016 [14 favorites]
Two years ago, I was talking with a craft brewer in western Mass, and I asked him why nobody in that world is making an ESB. He told me that, basically, it wasn't interesting enough to brew -- they the parameters of the style are well established, and that there's nothing that well appeal to craft brew aficionados. That seemed like a problem.
To my mind, a good craft brewing operation should be turning-out at least a couple of good, well-made examples of an established style, be it porter, ESB, or even a lager, and show they can, y'know, brew a damned good basic beer. Then, they can play with all the over-the-top stuff that gets the hopheads drooling.
posted by Thorzdad at 4:12 AM on November 21, 2016 [9 favorites]
To my mind, a good craft brewing operation should be turning-out at least a couple of good, well-made examples of an established style, be it porter, ESB, or even a lager, and show they can, y'know, brew a damned good basic beer. Then, they can play with all the over-the-top stuff that gets the hopheads drooling.
posted by Thorzdad at 4:12 AM on November 21, 2016 [9 favorites]
Having said that I like a bitter beer, I'd also clarify that sessionable is a great thing too. The beer doesn't need to be stronger than 4.5% really.
posted by trif at 4:15 AM on November 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by trif at 4:15 AM on November 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
I don't, as a rule, wait on line for beers or go out of my way to obtain particular beers. There are lots of great beers that are pretty widely available, and I don't generally regard even extraordinary beers as "an experience" that would warrant seeking them out.
That said: I waited about half an hour yesterday at a can release at what is, almost without argument, the best brewery on Long Island (there are two in Queens that equal or exceed it, maybe a pair in Brooklyn, depending on your tastes). The beer is very, very good, though, again, not transcendent; even my most favorite beers, which tend, right now, toward the New England IPA (face full of fruit, moderate bitterness, lingering hop flavor) don't really feel that way to me.
I waited mostly to support a really great local business and because, yeah, some day I might be saying, "you know, I used to just pop in for a pint! Now you can't even get near the place!"
The hunting of rare items really, really doesn't do it for me. I have a friend who does it, and for him, I think the chase is at least as exciting as the item itself, which I would think is the way to go about it.
posted by uncleozzy at 4:28 AM on November 21, 2016
That said: I waited about half an hour yesterday at a can release at what is, almost without argument, the best brewery on Long Island (there are two in Queens that equal or exceed it, maybe a pair in Brooklyn, depending on your tastes). The beer is very, very good, though, again, not transcendent; even my most favorite beers, which tend, right now, toward the New England IPA (face full of fruit, moderate bitterness, lingering hop flavor) don't really feel that way to me.
I waited mostly to support a really great local business and because, yeah, some day I might be saying, "you know, I used to just pop in for a pint! Now you can't even get near the place!"
The hunting of rare items really, really doesn't do it for me. I have a friend who does it, and for him, I think the chase is at least as exciting as the item itself, which I would think is the way to go about it.
posted by uncleozzy at 4:28 AM on November 21, 2016
"You have completely lost me about the Scouts, Duvel and the finger signalling. Where is that applicable? Are Belgian Scouts actually a drinking club for kids? (i'm joking, but the general question remains for me)So anyone in a noisy Belgian bar can make eye contact with their bartender and hold up their pinky to request whatever the standard pils on tap is; usually Stella, Jupiler, or Maes except in some regions where a local pils beer still has sway. This kind of standard pils is called a pintje, or little pint, and the gesture is universally understood. In addition to this there are other hand signals like pointing at your palm for a Palm beer that some bartenders might remember from their scouting years, but the only other one with real traction is the sign for Duvel.
"
In Belgium scouting is a really big deal to the point of being an almost universal experience across generations and is often though not always either mildly or super Catholic. If you come to Belgium you'll see them in khaki clothes in the touristy areas of pretty towns harassing passerby to complete scavenger lists or camping in nature-ey areas. It starts and ends at about the same ages as in the US, but one of the big differences is how the drinking age for beer and wine is 16 while the drinking age for hard liquor is 18, though both limits are culturally understood to be flexible and are rarely enforced. This means that, in addition to other things, scouting is indeed often a drinking club for the older kids that has organized adult supervision. The hand signals you can make for beers come from the creativity of these half-drunk kids, and some are quite old, but really the only one that has much of a chance at being understood in the wild is the one for Duvel.
posted by Blasdelb at 4:32 AM on November 21, 2016 [40 favorites]
Obscurity is a lot harder to accomplish in the internet age. So rare things tend to attract more hype. Back in the day you could have a cult movie or book. But digital stuff can just be copied now. So only actual things, whether it's beer or yarn or pickles or whatever, can be rare now. And beer is perfect because it's problematic to buy via the internet.
posted by rikschell at 4:37 AM on November 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by rikschell at 4:37 AM on November 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
Rarity is the best pony keg.
posted by ardgedee at 4:58 AM on November 21, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by ardgedee at 4:58 AM on November 21, 2016 [6 favorites]
See: Hill Farmstead.
posted by the painkiller at 5:13 AM on November 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by the painkiller at 5:13 AM on November 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
To my mind, a good craft brewing operation should be turning-out at least a couple of good, well-made examples of an established style, be it porter, ESB, or even a lager, and show they can, y'know, brew a damned good basic beer.
Seconded.
posted by .kobayashi. at 5:21 AM on November 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
Seconded.
posted by .kobayashi. at 5:21 AM on November 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
The No. 1 beer in the world was Trappist Westvleteren 12, a label-less, Belgian quadruple one could only access by calling a usually-busy hotline to make an appointment to line up at a country monastery in Vleteren, Belgium, on an assigned weekday.
This is a joke from a Douglas Adams novel, isn't it?
posted by Rock Steady at 5:22 AM on November 21, 2016 [53 favorites]
This is a joke from a Douglas Adams novel, isn't it?
posted by Rock Steady at 5:22 AM on November 21, 2016 [53 favorites]
The hunting of rare items really, really doesn't do it for me. I have a friend who does it, and for him, I think the chase is at least as exciting as the item itself, which I would think is the way to go about it.
I had a friend in grad school who had a major completionist streak. We went to a couple of conferences together and he'd always assemble a list of the top sights and usually manage to tick off everything on his list. I never really connected it to his envy that I'd had Heady Topper, but it's totally the same thing.
posted by hoyland at 5:27 AM on November 21, 2016
I had a friend in grad school who had a major completionist streak. We went to a couple of conferences together and he'd always assemble a list of the top sights and usually manage to tick off everything on his list. I never really connected it to his envy that I'd had Heady Topper, but it's totally the same thing.
posted by hoyland at 5:27 AM on November 21, 2016
See: Hill Farmstead.
They do make extraordinary beers, though. But I remember a handful of years ago when I stumbled across them in one of our many ventures from Quebec to Vermont--oh, how I do miss living 45 minutes from that border!--there was hardly anyone visiting their brewery, which was an old barn in the middle of a bucolic nowhere. My husband and I would routinely visit to get some of their beer to bring back with us, and not too long after, it was an utter zoo. The parking lot (read: a muddy lot) was filled and there was a line! We just sort of stood in line with the rest of these people, trying to figure out what the hell happened in a such short span of time. There were even two bros who had a significant layover from Boston to somewhere out west; they had rented a car to drive to Hill Farmstead just to get some of their beer.
posted by Kitteh at 5:30 AM on November 21, 2016 [3 favorites]
They do make extraordinary beers, though. But I remember a handful of years ago when I stumbled across them in one of our many ventures from Quebec to Vermont--oh, how I do miss living 45 minutes from that border!--there was hardly anyone visiting their brewery, which was an old barn in the middle of a bucolic nowhere. My husband and I would routinely visit to get some of their beer to bring back with us, and not too long after, it was an utter zoo. The parking lot (read: a muddy lot) was filled and there was a line! We just sort of stood in line with the rest of these people, trying to figure out what the hell happened in a such short span of time. There were even two bros who had a significant layover from Boston to somewhere out west; they had rented a car to drive to Hill Farmstead just to get some of their beer.
posted by Kitteh at 5:30 AM on November 21, 2016 [3 favorites]
To my mind, a good craft brewing operation should be turning-out at least a couple of good, well-made examples of an established style, be it porter, ESB, or even a lager, and show they can, y'know, brew a damned good basic beer.
The thing is, though, in the US, IPAs sell. Terrible IPAs sell anyway (which is what keeps most bad breweries afloat, right now), and well-made, limited IPAs become mythical. You can make the most perfect example of a porter or an ESB or a dry stout, but the market isn't there for it. People aren't lining up for three hours to buy your 3.5% ABV ordinary bitter. They're coming for hop and booze bombs, freaks aged in barrels worn by bankrupt bums in Bugs Bunny cartoons, redolent of flop sweat and dill pickles.
posted by uncleozzy at 5:32 AM on November 21, 2016 [10 favorites]
The thing is, though, in the US, IPAs sell. Terrible IPAs sell anyway (which is what keeps most bad breweries afloat, right now), and well-made, limited IPAs become mythical. You can make the most perfect example of a porter or an ESB or a dry stout, but the market isn't there for it. People aren't lining up for three hours to buy your 3.5% ABV ordinary bitter. They're coming for hop and booze bombs, freaks aged in barrels worn by bankrupt bums in Bugs Bunny cartoons, redolent of flop sweat and dill pickles.
posted by uncleozzy at 5:32 AM on November 21, 2016 [10 favorites]
Like, I had a whole pint of Russian River Pliny the Younger once.
That's the only much-hyped beer that I've had (and by chance, a place nearby brought in a keg, not due to my seeking it out). It was ok, but nothing special, and such a strong contrast to the descriptions I had read that I ended up a lot more suspicious of the hype about rare beers.
I'm personally quite happy with standard northwest IPAs (I skip the double- and triple-hopped monsters, though people seem to quite like them) mixed in with pale ales and some session beers. It's good for people to have hobbies and there are many worse things than seeking out rare alcohol, but it isn't one that really excites me.
That said, it is fun to stop in at the local hipster beer place and let them curate the experience. I don't always love what I get, but it is usually interesting and full of flavor.
posted by Dip Flash at 5:36 AM on November 21, 2016
That's the only much-hyped beer that I've had (and by chance, a place nearby brought in a keg, not due to my seeking it out). It was ok, but nothing special, and such a strong contrast to the descriptions I had read that I ended up a lot more suspicious of the hype about rare beers.
I'm personally quite happy with standard northwest IPAs (I skip the double- and triple-hopped monsters, though people seem to quite like them) mixed in with pale ales and some session beers. It's good for people to have hobbies and there are many worse things than seeking out rare alcohol, but it isn't one that really excites me.
That said, it is fun to stop in at the local hipster beer place and let them curate the experience. I don't always love what I get, but it is usually interesting and full of flavor.
posted by Dip Flash at 5:36 AM on November 21, 2016
More's the shame. I've been renewing an old fondness for dry stout (and its German cousin, the dark alt) but they're difficult to find in the bottle shops locally, and most of what's available seem to be rote inventory-filler.
On the one hand I like not having to pay a triple-price premium for a really nice stout because it'd become a hot commodity, not have to pick from an exhausting abundance of difficult-to differentiate stouts with varying levels of outrage on the labels. On the other hand the bottle shop has mumblety-thousands of beers, and I wish there was more variety in stouts than a couple good basic dry stouts plus a few dozen more flavored with things I like but don't usually feel like having in my beer, like coffee, chocolate, or fruit.
posted by ardgedee at 5:41 AM on November 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
On the one hand I like not having to pay a triple-price premium for a really nice stout because it'd become a hot commodity, not have to pick from an exhausting abundance of difficult-to differentiate stouts with varying levels of outrage on the labels. On the other hand the bottle shop has mumblety-thousands of beers, and I wish there was more variety in stouts than a couple good basic dry stouts plus a few dozen more flavored with things I like but don't usually feel like having in my beer, like coffee, chocolate, or fruit.
posted by ardgedee at 5:41 AM on November 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
Here is my beer tip:
If you want to know what Westvleteren 12 is like just drink St. Bernardus. They use the same strain of yeast and are indistinguishable to me. One I get a bottle from every couple of years when a friend visits the monastery and the other I get from a Binny's 5 minutes walk from my apartment.
posted by srboisvert at 5:41 AM on November 21, 2016 [14 favorites]
If you want to know what Westvleteren 12 is like just drink St. Bernardus. They use the same strain of yeast and are indistinguishable to me. One I get a bottle from every couple of years when a friend visits the monastery and the other I get from a Binny's 5 minutes walk from my apartment.
posted by srboisvert at 5:41 AM on November 21, 2016 [14 favorites]
I came here to say that: Westy 12 and Bernardus are super similar because they are in fact the same beer. The monks moved production from Westvleteren to Watou during WWII, and when they moved back after the war the brewers at Watou just kept making the beer from the same recipe. There are very slight differences owing to climate, yeast mutation, and so on, but not nearly enough to justify the Westy 12 hype (plus TBH I think that Abbot 12 is the better beer).
posted by Itaxpica at 6:16 AM on November 21, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by Itaxpica at 6:16 AM on November 21, 2016 [6 favorites]
(That origin story comes from the book Brew Like A Monk by Stan Hieronymous; Wikipedia claims that in fact Bernardus brewed Westy's beers under contract from the 60s up through the mid-90s, when the laws changed and Trappist beers had to be made in Trappist monasteries. Whichever is true, the fact remains that the two beers are for all intents and purposes the same)
And for what it's worth, the same exact thing happens with whisky: Pappy Van Winkle is a good bourbon elevated to the status of great bourbon by virtue of costing $1000 a bottle.
posted by Itaxpica at 6:21 AM on November 21, 2016 [4 favorites]
And for what it's worth, the same exact thing happens with whisky: Pappy Van Winkle is a good bourbon elevated to the status of great bourbon by virtue of costing $1000 a bottle.
posted by Itaxpica at 6:21 AM on November 21, 2016 [4 favorites]
I'd mostly agree with the similarity but the Westvleterens tend to be richer in flavour ('zwaarder'), thicker, with much smaller bubbles/ less carbonation. A useful surrogate (not the case for Orval) but there might still be a case for trying both.
posted by rudster at 6:23 AM on November 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by rudster at 6:23 AM on November 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
But even I can tell you that Heady Topper tastes no better or worse than anything else I've ended up whizzing.
Oh cool, I can participate in a beer thread, I've tasted Heady, it was, well, good, I'd be happy to have one with dinner. It had good flavor, not too strong and not unpleasantly bitter. But people like to stand in line, they need an excuse (Stones tickets, Star Wars or special beer) but some folks just love to wait in line, I'm sure they love to brag about their line standing stoicism or sump'n, but really some folks just lurv lines....
posted by sammyo at 6:57 AM on November 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
Oh cool, I can participate in a beer thread, I've tasted Heady, it was, well, good, I'd be happy to have one with dinner. It had good flavor, not too strong and not unpleasantly bitter. But people like to stand in line, they need an excuse (Stones tickets, Star Wars or special beer) but some folks just love to wait in line, I'm sure they love to brag about their line standing stoicism or sump'n, but really some folks just lurv lines....
posted by sammyo at 6:57 AM on November 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
I really like Heady. Hits all the right NE IPA notes for me. But it's also 8% abv or something, and doesn't hide the booze well enough to be an everyday drinker. If I'm looking for something in that range, I'll reach for it. But no, I won't wait on line for it. That's madness. There are plenty of other beers that hit the same notes, or similar notes, without the wait.
But yeah, lots of people just want to wait to have waited for something rare. Which is fine, if that's your thing, but there are enough really good beers and really good breweries right now that everybody can get great beer without chasing it, if that's what they want.
posted by uncleozzy at 7:09 AM on November 21, 2016
But yeah, lots of people just want to wait to have waited for something rare. Which is fine, if that's your thing, but there are enough really good beers and really good breweries right now that everybody can get great beer without chasing it, if that's what they want.
posted by uncleozzy at 7:09 AM on November 21, 2016
I hate the whale stuff because I want to try every beer but I'm lazy and even if I weren't lazy I don't live near any breweries with enough national cachet to be very trade-able, I don't think. I have been lucky enough to try a fair number of rare-ish things just by being acquainted with beer collectors though, since they all seem to have the commendable quality of wanting to show off their acquisitions via sharing.
posted by ghharr at 7:11 AM on November 21, 2016
posted by ghharr at 7:11 AM on November 21, 2016
There are beer snobs who frown on really hoppy beers? Really? I am incredulous mostly because the idea seems almost incomprehensible to me
There are a whole bunch of them right in this very thread, so
posted by showbiz_liz at 7:22 AM on November 21, 2016 [7 favorites]
There are a whole bunch of them right in this very thread, so
posted by showbiz_liz at 7:22 AM on November 21, 2016 [7 favorites]
Uh... I remember a time in the 80's, when me and my buddies all thought Watneys Red Barrel was the Beer of Beers, and I was delighted beyond belief to find a set of Watneys mugs for sale at a yard sale in Forest Hills.
posted by lagomorphius at 7:22 AM on November 21, 2016
posted by lagomorphius at 7:22 AM on November 21, 2016
That's all nice, but what I really like about beer today is that there are at least six breweries within five miles of my house, all doing their own thing. In an environment like that, a lot of beer that's getting drunk is to one extent or another rare.
posted by wotsac at 7:29 AM on November 21, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by wotsac at 7:29 AM on November 21, 2016 [8 favorites]
Joseph Gurl: How the hell did you get a Heady Topper in Seoul?! You can't even get it reliably in Burlington!
posted by maryr at 7:31 AM on November 21, 2016
posted by maryr at 7:31 AM on November 21, 2016
There are beer snobs who frown on really hoppy beers? Really? I am incredulous mostly because the idea seems almost incomprehensible to me
I don't frown on really hoppy beers. I do frown on really hoppy beers from brewers who don't really know what they're doing. With the explosion in the number of microbrews, there is also an explosion in the number of brewers whose skills are a little lacking. They can't all be winners. Unfortunately, IPA is a style that every new startup seems to produce, and right now in my neck of the woods, there are a lot of poor ones out there, all with the subtlety of a sledgehammer.
Me and hoppy beers are taking a time out.
posted by Capt. Renault at 7:37 AM on November 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
I don't frown on really hoppy beers. I do frown on really hoppy beers from brewers who don't really know what they're doing. With the explosion in the number of microbrews, there is also an explosion in the number of brewers whose skills are a little lacking. They can't all be winners. Unfortunately, IPA is a style that every new startup seems to produce, and right now in my neck of the woods, there are a lot of poor ones out there, all with the subtlety of a sledgehammer.
Me and hoppy beers are taking a time out.
posted by Capt. Renault at 7:37 AM on November 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
I've gotten off the trendy beer thing in recent years. There are so many of them and many of the styles (sours in particular) I just don't like. I just don't drink enough to keep up.
Instead there are a couple of local breweries that I frequent along with brewing my own. I'm happy. Which is something I can't say for those who are always chasing the next limited-edition beer.
posted by tommasz at 7:38 AM on November 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
Instead there are a couple of local breweries that I frequent along with brewing my own. I'm happy. Which is something I can't say for those who are always chasing the next limited-edition beer.
posted by tommasz at 7:38 AM on November 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
Instead there are a couple of local breweries that I frequent along with brewing my own. I'm happy. Which is something I can't say for those who are always chasing the next limited-edition beer.
Yeah, this is what I do now. I have a really great local brewery within walking distance of my house and they are putting out reliable special bottles monthly. As an avid beer-drinker/beer podcaster, I'm happy to kick my money their way. If I come across some interesting non-Canadian beers at the LCBO or in my travels, I'm happy to try them but I'm not gonna obsess over them for the love of collection and pursuit.
posted by Kitteh at 8:02 AM on November 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
Yeah, this is what I do now. I have a really great local brewery within walking distance of my house and they are putting out reliable special bottles monthly. As an avid beer-drinker/beer podcaster, I'm happy to kick my money their way. If I come across some interesting non-Canadian beers at the LCBO or in my travels, I'm happy to try them but I'm not gonna obsess over them for the love of collection and pursuit.
posted by Kitteh at 8:02 AM on November 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
Anti-snobbery in beer culture has become its own sort of smug beer snobbery (HF and Pliny are just ok beers? Please. HF makes incredible beers, many of them exemplars of more subtle styles). It's true that many, many beers are way over-hyped, and that hyping affects perceptions of taste and also ratings - as it does with anything - but it's also not true that these beers are only hype. Every rare TG beer I've gotten my hands on has been worth it - and the hunt is part of the fun.
You also always hear this argument when these discussions come up about craft breweries not making 'balanced, classic' styles well or whatever, and people get on their high horse about the plebs not wanting to buy those beers, and we'd all rather drink an over-hopped IPA than a nicely balanced ESB. Pfft. Big, unbalanced, bomb beers are delicious, and that's why they sell. Give me a giant barrel-aged imperial stout or super fresh DIPA over an ESB any day of the week (I do have a soft spot however for a nicely subtle Kolsch or farmhouse).
I dunno; maybe I'm a sucker, but I would drive long miles and trade off some of my prized cellar beers for a bomber of Mornin Delight.
posted by Lutoslawski at 8:08 AM on November 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
You also always hear this argument when these discussions come up about craft breweries not making 'balanced, classic' styles well or whatever, and people get on their high horse about the plebs not wanting to buy those beers, and we'd all rather drink an over-hopped IPA than a nicely balanced ESB. Pfft. Big, unbalanced, bomb beers are delicious, and that's why they sell. Give me a giant barrel-aged imperial stout or super fresh DIPA over an ESB any day of the week (I do have a soft spot however for a nicely subtle Kolsch or farmhouse).
I dunno; maybe I'm a sucker, but I would drive long miles and trade off some of my prized cellar beers for a bomber of Mornin Delight.
posted by Lutoslawski at 8:08 AM on November 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
With a lot of snobby food stuffs, the idea is that we're returning to some pre-industrialized food time when foodie craftsmanship was more heavily emphasized.
The funny thing about beer is that it was an industrialized product VERY early on in its history. Look at a list of oldest continually operating companies and it's striking how many are breweries. It's a pain-in-the-ass science-y process that lends itself to continual improvement and standardization and mass production. It's sort of silly to suggest that large breweries making enormous quantities of beer can't do it well. A large, high-quality brewery like (to use a local example) Bells or Founders is making a product that kicks 15th century beer's ass six ways to Sunday.
What's sort of sad is that we've mostly lost regional variation in our quest for crazy novelty and differentiation. It used to be a big deal to go to Germany and drink a Berliner Weisse or a Gose.
Now when I travel I'm basically just getting slightly different versions of the same beers my local brewers make. Within 150 miles of me I can find beers that a decade ago would have been world-class in any one of probably a 20 different styles.
posted by woof at 8:08 AM on November 21, 2016 [6 favorites]
The funny thing about beer is that it was an industrialized product VERY early on in its history. Look at a list of oldest continually operating companies and it's striking how many are breweries. It's a pain-in-the-ass science-y process that lends itself to continual improvement and standardization and mass production. It's sort of silly to suggest that large breweries making enormous quantities of beer can't do it well. A large, high-quality brewery like (to use a local example) Bells or Founders is making a product that kicks 15th century beer's ass six ways to Sunday.
What's sort of sad is that we've mostly lost regional variation in our quest for crazy novelty and differentiation. It used to be a big deal to go to Germany and drink a Berliner Weisse or a Gose.
Now when I travel I'm basically just getting slightly different versions of the same beers my local brewers make. Within 150 miles of me I can find beers that a decade ago would have been world-class in any one of probably a 20 different styles.
posted by woof at 8:08 AM on November 21, 2016 [6 favorites]
I think the true part of being spoiled by Vermont beer culture is exactly that I can reap the benefits of all the sturm und drang about ratings and beer types without needing to go stand in a line, or whatever. I really enjoy just trying out that new beer on tap that I haven't had before, and the fact that it may well be from Hill Farmstead or Alchemist or wherever is a huge bonus. For what it's worth, so near as I can tell the local beer culture moved past Heady Topper about 18 months ago. The beer industry is becoming a bit like the fashion industry in this respect, but it can be fun if you just take it all with a grain of salt. Gose anyone?
posted by meinvt at 8:22 AM on November 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by meinvt at 8:22 AM on November 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
The No. 1 beer in the world was Trappist Westvleteren 12, a label-less, Belgian quadruple one could only access by calling a usually-busy hotline to make an appointment to line up at a country monastery in Vleteren, Belgium, on an assigned weekday.There have actually been two Mefi meetups/expeditions to get this beer; I still got about a case or so left in my beer cellar. Took about a day or so of persistent calling to the brewery to get the cars registered, then had to go there on a Saturday to get the beer, limited to two cases per car. Slightly easier to get to from Amsterdam than the US of course.
This is a joke from a Douglas Adams novel, isn't it?
It's definitely an overrated beer but it is a great example of an already excellent beer style no matter who brews it (except for Westmalle) and its scarcity isn't contrived, but stems from the simple fact it is brewed in a very small trappist cloister and the people running it are not interested so much in making money other than to pay for the upkeep of their cloister.
posted by MartinWisse at 8:41 AM on November 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
I got annoyed at how fast the beer scene moves. I would find some neat type of beer I really liked, and a few months later it would be passe and everyone moved onto the latest-and-greatest. Plus the cost of rare microbrews in Ontario is getting ridiculous. So I've cut back a lot on weird and novel beers. I used to have a massive variety of interesting beers in my cold room, but no more. I've found a few good and reliable standards which I stick to, and occasionally get a special bottle or two of something interesting. I get the same amount of enjoyment on a much more reasonable beer budget.
posted by fimbulvetr at 8:47 AM on November 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by fimbulvetr at 8:47 AM on November 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
I was at a bar the other night drinking local beers with a friend, showed him a beer that I'd bought and had at home recently. Looked it up on a whim and discovered that it was rated as a "world class" 95+ on BA. I didn't buy it for the rating. I bought it because I know the brewer makes some things I really like and I wanted to give it a try.
I mean, it's good. But it's also thick as hell, looks like motor oil when you pour it, and it's a 12% ABV. So, yeah, a solid, tasty stout, but it is definitely not an everyday beer. I'm perfectly happy having a stock of everyday beers around, something along the line of a standard ale that is hoppy enough for me but not too hoppy for my wife, leaving the ridiculously overhopped or so-thick-you-can-chew-it stouts for special occasions. There's nothing wrong with the highly touted beers of today, but that also means that the highly-touted beers of a decade ago are still going to be good - and likely cheaper, and more readily available.
What I do agree with is that more and more small breweries are popping up everywhere. Not all of them are good, not all of their beers are top notch, but it is SO MUCH FUN trying out what the local scene has come up with whenever I travel places. Sometimes it is a really pleasant surprise. Always buy local! If it's OK, you are supporting local businesses - and if it's spectacular, you can brag to your friends that you got to try [insert rare beer here, which is brewed with an exotic and rare additive like the nose hairs of the endangered pygmy field mouse, and is only available on some ridiculous schedule or location like alternating Thursdays in June in this one little place in Idaho. Or whatever.]
posted by caution live frogs at 8:54 AM on November 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
I mean, it's good. But it's also thick as hell, looks like motor oil when you pour it, and it's a 12% ABV. So, yeah, a solid, tasty stout, but it is definitely not an everyday beer. I'm perfectly happy having a stock of everyday beers around, something along the line of a standard ale that is hoppy enough for me but not too hoppy for my wife, leaving the ridiculously overhopped or so-thick-you-can-chew-it stouts for special occasions. There's nothing wrong with the highly touted beers of today, but that also means that the highly-touted beers of a decade ago are still going to be good - and likely cheaper, and more readily available.
What I do agree with is that more and more small breweries are popping up everywhere. Not all of them are good, not all of their beers are top notch, but it is SO MUCH FUN trying out what the local scene has come up with whenever I travel places. Sometimes it is a really pleasant surprise. Always buy local! If it's OK, you are supporting local businesses - and if it's spectacular, you can brag to your friends that you got to try [insert rare beer here, which is brewed with an exotic and rare additive like the nose hairs of the endangered pygmy field mouse, and is only available on some ridiculous schedule or location like alternating Thursdays in June in this one little place in Idaho. Or whatever.]
posted by caution live frogs at 8:54 AM on November 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
There are beer snobs who frown on really hoppy beers? Really? I am incredulous mostly because the idea seems almost incomprehensible to me
call me a beer snob. I'm certainly the first person I know that started NOT drinking what everybody else was. It started in high school as a means to recognize when some ass was stealing my beer ... then evolved a few years later when I realized that a strong 8-percent Scotch ale was actually a better dollar-per-alcohol deal than all the regular options at my fave live music joint ...
And out of all that eventually came an eagerness to try stuff I'd never seen before.
But I never really bought into excess hops. Much as I've never bought into those single malt scotches that taste like they were strained through an acre of peat bog before going into the bottle. The common issue seems to be one of heavy-handedness for which I blame the drinkers as much as the brewers (ie: how can I know if I'm drinking something special if it doesn't SCREAM the fact to my taste buds? the alcohol equivalent of rare death metal or whatever)
Not that I hate hoppiness (or some fierce guitar licks for that matter). Not at all. Indeed, my current fave beer on the planet is De Ranke's Guldenberg which is rarity among Belgian tripels in that it has a definite hoppiness -- but it's tempered by all the other Belgian magic such that, even though it's strong on the ABV scale, it remains crisp, a unique and delicious taste that is not out of place on a hot day.
And oh yeah, it's bloody rare, at least in my corner of the world.
posted by philip-random at 9:09 AM on November 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
call me a beer snob. I'm certainly the first person I know that started NOT drinking what everybody else was. It started in high school as a means to recognize when some ass was stealing my beer ... then evolved a few years later when I realized that a strong 8-percent Scotch ale was actually a better dollar-per-alcohol deal than all the regular options at my fave live music joint ...
And out of all that eventually came an eagerness to try stuff I'd never seen before.
But I never really bought into excess hops. Much as I've never bought into those single malt scotches that taste like they were strained through an acre of peat bog before going into the bottle. The common issue seems to be one of heavy-handedness for which I blame the drinkers as much as the brewers (ie: how can I know if I'm drinking something special if it doesn't SCREAM the fact to my taste buds? the alcohol equivalent of rare death metal or whatever)
Not that I hate hoppiness (or some fierce guitar licks for that matter). Not at all. Indeed, my current fave beer on the planet is De Ranke's Guldenberg which is rarity among Belgian tripels in that it has a definite hoppiness -- but it's tempered by all the other Belgian magic such that, even though it's strong on the ABV scale, it remains crisp, a unique and delicious taste that is not out of place on a hot day.
And oh yeah, it's bloody rare, at least in my corner of the world.
posted by philip-random at 9:09 AM on November 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
The Beer Advocate list is a compilation of non-blinded consumer ratings, which has to account for at least some of the bias towards rare brews. I'm sure some places would change if blind tastings were required.
Not only are the tastings non-blinded, but the ratings are non-anonymous, and BA is a social site. As ardgedee alludes to, there's a lot of social capital attached to having tried and loved a rare beer. You've gotten to participate in a special, magical, exclusive experience. An experience which indicates you have plenty of disposable income and free time. And there will be a naturally cyclical pattern to these top 100 lists, because once enough people have tried a top beer that it doesn't feel exclusive anymore, the way to hold onto your social capital is to have tried a much-loved rare beer and hated it. Basically, your experience of tasting something doesn't happen in a vacuum but is colored by your preconceptions and environment.
All that said, probably my favorite beer I've ever had is the Hardywood Park Kentucky Christmas Morning, which is a limited-release bourbon-barrel-aged gingerbread coffee stout, and I think it indicates that depending on your taste preferences sometimes the rarest beers also just happen to be the most delicious ones.
posted by capricorn at 9:53 AM on November 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
Not only are the tastings non-blinded, but the ratings are non-anonymous, and BA is a social site. As ardgedee alludes to, there's a lot of social capital attached to having tried and loved a rare beer. You've gotten to participate in a special, magical, exclusive experience. An experience which indicates you have plenty of disposable income and free time. And there will be a naturally cyclical pattern to these top 100 lists, because once enough people have tried a top beer that it doesn't feel exclusive anymore, the way to hold onto your social capital is to have tried a much-loved rare beer and hated it. Basically, your experience of tasting something doesn't happen in a vacuum but is colored by your preconceptions and environment.
All that said, probably my favorite beer I've ever had is the Hardywood Park Kentucky Christmas Morning, which is a limited-release bourbon-barrel-aged gingerbread coffee stout, and I think it indicates that depending on your taste preferences sometimes the rarest beers also just happen to be the most delicious ones.
posted by capricorn at 9:53 AM on November 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
I'm in the Twin Cities which has undergone a beer revolution in the last ten years. The so-called "Surly Law" was passed which allowed brewers to sell their wares on site. These tap rooms range from the massive facility of the eponymous Surly to basically little basement rooms next to the brewing equipment. Just in the Twin Cities there are dozens with a new one opening seemingly every week. I bring this up because it completely changes how you view rarity. Many of the beers sold aren't bottled or canned and are often one-offs that you can get at the tap room for a limited amount of time. The thing is why Surly's Darkness Days still ends up with lines, most tap rooms are just where people go to hang out, play some corn hole, eat some food truck food and drink beer which may or may not be something brew you'll never taste again.
And just for the curious, my current favorites are the newly opened Wild Mind Artisan Ales which specializes in saisons and Urban Growler which used to have the distinction of being owned and run by women. Still is, but now there are others in town. They always have really distinct brews and many one-offs.
So for those rarity chasers out there, come and visit the Minneapolis/St. Paul next summer, rent some bikes and do a tap room crawl.
posted by misterpatrick at 10:07 AM on November 21, 2016 [3 favorites]
And just for the curious, my current favorites are the newly opened Wild Mind Artisan Ales which specializes in saisons and Urban Growler which used to have the distinction of being owned and run by women. Still is, but now there are others in town. They always have really distinct brews and many one-offs.
So for those rarity chasers out there, come and visit the Minneapolis/St. Paul next summer, rent some bikes and do a tap room crawl.
posted by misterpatrick at 10:07 AM on November 21, 2016 [3 favorites]
I'm waiting for the inevitable reaction against the current trend of ultra-hop beers. If I were a betting man, I'd bet that the next phase of beer snobbery will revolve around the subtle nuances of lagers. I and those of us that cannot abide "Slap your momma" or "Intolerable Bastard" type beers and their consumers eagerly await the upcoming lager movement!
posted by pleem at 10:18 AM on November 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by pleem at 10:18 AM on November 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
What's sort of sad is that we've mostly lost regional variation in our quest for crazy novelty and differentiation. It used to be a big deal to go to Germany and drink a Berliner Weisse or a Gose.
I don't think this is really the result of the search for novelty, but due to wider availability of knowledge and ingredients. Brewing is primarily about process, and if you can get the right basic ingredients and follow the right processes, you can produce more or less anything anywhere. Novelty gets you a bourbon barrel-aged sour cherry butterscotch pumpkin imperial stout. (Worst real example: a lager that was barrel-aged in an Islay whisky cask. It smelled and tasted of model airplane glue.) Availability gets you something nice like a Kolsch in San Francisco.
I remember being in our local Amsterdam bar about 20 years ago talking to a visitor from the States, and he was in a homebrew club where their prized possession was a collection of yeast cultures which they'd painstakingly grew from the dregs from bottled Belgian beer taken home. You don't need to do that any longer, you can simply order the specific yeast culture for the style you want to make, it'll be pretty much the same as the commercial brewery uses, and it'll be high quality and ready to pitch.
On preview, I'm also waiting for the reaction against the ultra beers. I enjoy them in certain doses, but they're tiring, and often you just want a nice clean beer. The recent saison trend has been great.
I'm also waiting for the bubble to burst. The search for rarity means that the smaller brewers are in a constant cycle of having to create new beers, so they don't get brand loyalty because people want the new thing all the time. And unless they're very lucky, they can't get traction for those one or two dependable drinkers that give them a steady income.
posted by daveje at 10:32 AM on November 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
I don't think this is really the result of the search for novelty, but due to wider availability of knowledge and ingredients. Brewing is primarily about process, and if you can get the right basic ingredients and follow the right processes, you can produce more or less anything anywhere. Novelty gets you a bourbon barrel-aged sour cherry butterscotch pumpkin imperial stout. (Worst real example: a lager that was barrel-aged in an Islay whisky cask. It smelled and tasted of model airplane glue.) Availability gets you something nice like a Kolsch in San Francisco.
I remember being in our local Amsterdam bar about 20 years ago talking to a visitor from the States, and he was in a homebrew club where their prized possession was a collection of yeast cultures which they'd painstakingly grew from the dregs from bottled Belgian beer taken home. You don't need to do that any longer, you can simply order the specific yeast culture for the style you want to make, it'll be pretty much the same as the commercial brewery uses, and it'll be high quality and ready to pitch.
On preview, I'm also waiting for the reaction against the ultra beers. I enjoy them in certain doses, but they're tiring, and often you just want a nice clean beer. The recent saison trend has been great.
I'm also waiting for the bubble to burst. The search for rarity means that the smaller brewers are in a constant cycle of having to create new beers, so they don't get brand loyalty because people want the new thing all the time. And unless they're very lucky, they can't get traction for those one or two dependable drinkers that give them a steady income.
posted by daveje at 10:32 AM on November 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
Another nice thing about Duvel is that it's been tested at least twice (here and here) to be less than 20 ppm gluten, which is a generally recognized level of safety for those with celiac disease.
NOTE THAT THIS DOES NOT MEAN IT IS FINE FOR ALL GLUTEN SENSITIVE FOLKS, CELIAC OR NOT. YOUR MILEAGE (AND GUT HEALTH) MAY VARY. NOTE ALSO THAT 8.5% ABV BEFORE YOU GO NUTS.
All I'm saying is that it is a godsend for an occasional treat compared to the desert that is 100% GF beers.
posted by sapere aude at 10:39 AM on November 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
NOTE THAT THIS DOES NOT MEAN IT IS FINE FOR ALL GLUTEN SENSITIVE FOLKS, CELIAC OR NOT. YOUR MILEAGE (AND GUT HEALTH) MAY VARY. NOTE ALSO THAT 8.5% ABV BEFORE YOU GO NUTS.
All I'm saying is that it is a godsend for an occasional treat compared to the desert that is 100% GF beers.
posted by sapere aude at 10:39 AM on November 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
Hah, I was planning on picking up some Duvel this week. Duvel + MST3K Turkey Day has become a defacto tradition for me, with some St.B for desert.
I mean, that's why we spend all day laying a base of meat, potatoes, and stuffing, right?
posted by robocop is bleeding at 10:49 AM on November 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
I mean, that's why we spend all day laying a base of meat, potatoes, and stuffing, right?
posted by robocop is bleeding at 10:49 AM on November 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
Beer snobbery is annoying, but I do love the resurgence of craft beer. In my relatively rural area, there are at least ten breweries within forty miles. I love a good IPA, but as others have said, enough with the hitting over the head hops and the porters so rich I don't need to eat for two days afterwards and am drunk off of one. I think it is all about the balance of elements. A brewery near me has a beautiful IPA (Blacksmith's Cutthroat IPA) that is not too hoppy or bitter, or another one has a great session ale ( Phillipsburg's Otterwater) that is so distinct from it's mass produced lower alcohol content brethren, yet I can still drink the same amount as if it were Coors light. Red Hook's ESB is one of my favorite beers, which we have in some grocery stores here. I do think the ESB is underrated, but perhaps it's because I like to drink more than one beer at a time, which makes the over the top flavored beers a bit off putting.
posted by branravenraven at 11:08 AM on November 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by branravenraven at 11:08 AM on November 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm waiting for the inevitable reaction against the current trend of ultra-hop beers.
Every time I stumble upon a MetaFilter beer thread full of americans, I cannot figure out if you're, like, eight trend cycles ahead of me or eight trend cycles behind. The only thing that's constant is that someone will complain about the current trend of ultra-hop beers.
posted by effbot at 11:23 AM on November 21, 2016 [17 favorites]
Every time I stumble upon a MetaFilter beer thread full of americans, I cannot figure out if you're, like, eight trend cycles ahead of me or eight trend cycles behind. The only thing that's constant is that someone will complain about the current trend of ultra-hop beers.
posted by effbot at 11:23 AM on November 21, 2016 [17 favorites]
Having moved from Wisconsin back to Washington, I know realized that I was wrong and it has gotten that bad out here. Why is 3/4 of all the craft brews in the store an IPA? Like seriously, half the craftbrews had an IPA and then a more hoppy IPA on the shelf in the store.
posted by Zalzidrax at 11:35 AM on November 21, 2016
posted by Zalzidrax at 11:35 AM on November 21, 2016
Same reason most supermarkets stock more chicken breasts than feet?
posted by uncleozzy at 11:43 AM on November 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by uncleozzy at 11:43 AM on November 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
All these beers sound fine, and yet none perhaps are as rare as the Malty Brown I brewed yesterday in my garage. If you want a bottle you must perform seven trials, including accomplishing a perfect run through of Battletoads, a five-day win streak on Jeopardy totalling not less than 60,000$, a timed essay explaining the popularity of new country music, a semiotic study of the film Berlin Alexanderplatz, a perfect Baked Alaska, a black belt in at least one marital art, and constructing a replica of the Sydney Opera House using only mashed yams.
Then and only then will we turn our attention to your SAT scores.
posted by Kafkaesque at 11:44 AM on November 21, 2016 [5 favorites]
Then and only then will we turn our attention to your SAT scores.
posted by Kafkaesque at 11:44 AM on November 21, 2016 [5 favorites]
and those of us that cannot abide "Slap your momma" or "Intolerable Bastard" type beers and their consumers eagerly await the upcoming lager movement!
Slap Your Momma is so last week. Put Your Estranged Stepsister Into a Full Nelson Sauvin is where it's at.
posted by jpolchlopek at 12:44 PM on November 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
Slap Your Momma is so last week. Put Your Estranged Stepsister Into a Full Nelson Sauvin is where it's at.
posted by jpolchlopek at 12:44 PM on November 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
Westvleteren is a very nice beer. I think it's lovely. Maybe I'm less into the hype as I didn't have to drive to the monastery to get it as I know a place to get it Holland when I'm there. Still, it's lovely. But this whole "best beer in the world thing" is a bit silly, and anointing a very good beer the best because it's hard to get is even sillier.
posted by ob at 12:48 PM on November 21, 2016
posted by ob at 12:48 PM on November 21, 2016
Can the Sydney Opera House be constructed with extruded melted cheese?
posted by Death and Gravity at 12:50 PM on November 21, 2016
posted by Death and Gravity at 12:50 PM on November 21, 2016
I'm always glad to see beer being discussed on the Blue, because I love beer and I love the Blue.
My favorite beer is the Sam Adams Old Fezziwig Ale. Sneer all you want, but it's a nice beer, and it's only available in the winter. Every December I buy a box or two of the Sam Adams Winter Sampler, and I save an Old Fezziwig for Christmas Eve. After the kids are asleep and the presents have been wrapped, and after I stumble home from a midnight Christmas mass, I sit at my desk and drink the spicy holiday beer, and I think about blue spruce Christmas trees and snow-covered hillsides and the warmth of having a house full of sleeping children that I love so very much.
So if a beer can do all that, how can it not be special?
posted by math at 2:11 PM on November 21, 2016 [4 favorites]
My favorite beer is the Sam Adams Old Fezziwig Ale. Sneer all you want, but it's a nice beer, and it's only available in the winter. Every December I buy a box or two of the Sam Adams Winter Sampler, and I save an Old Fezziwig for Christmas Eve. After the kids are asleep and the presents have been wrapped, and after I stumble home from a midnight Christmas mass, I sit at my desk and drink the spicy holiday beer, and I think about blue spruce Christmas trees and snow-covered hillsides and the warmth of having a house full of sleeping children that I love so very much.
So if a beer can do all that, how can it not be special?
posted by math at 2:11 PM on November 21, 2016 [4 favorites]
In the SF Bay Area one of the great locals have been beers by Moonlight in Santa Rosa. One brewer, 200 barrels a year, no chance of getting any if you weren't already doing so. There was a waiting list for kegs that the brewer personally told me no one had cleared in several years. Or so the story went.
A few years ago friends and I all started noticing more and and more Moonlight taps appearing around the area. And then more and more. So...we were being gamed. And now Lagunitas has decided to pump some more $ into the brewery so there's more than ever.
The beer's still good and I'm glad for their success but can't help feeling a little played.
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 2:24 PM on November 21, 2016
A few years ago friends and I all started noticing more and and more Moonlight taps appearing around the area. And then more and more. So...we were being gamed. And now Lagunitas has decided to pump some more $ into the brewery so there's more than ever.
The beer's still good and I'm glad for their success but can't help feeling a little played.
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 2:24 PM on November 21, 2016
Why don't more craft beers come in pony bottles? Seven ounces is the perfect size for super high ABV beers where you don't want to drink a 750 with friends or yourself. Anyway chasing rare beers is like camping out for Grateful Dead tickets, it's probably better in retrospect. I don't regret doing it in 1976 but I sure wouldn't do it today. If you drive to Vermont pick me up some Hill Farmstead, bring them to my house, I'll whip up some food and we'll taste and enjoy. Life is so short and I'm never gonna get to try all of the beers, let alone the whales.
posted by fixedgear at 2:34 PM on November 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by fixedgear at 2:34 PM on November 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
This thread reminds me that the bottled beers I miss most since leaving Michigan is Short's. For the last couple years before I moved away, Short's was bringing me a lot more happiness than Bell's and Founder's. Even though I mostly avoided their novelty beers, and even though I'm not that much of a hop-head, I really loved how they were able to overhop the shit out of things but make them complex and flavorful rather than render them into metallic high-test swill.
For a couple years they had a regular fall release just for profiling freshly-harvested hops, and if it wasn't for my liver and bank account I could have lived on that stuff. They never struck me as going to far down the rabbit hole of compulsory esoterica, they were just prolifically brewing weird beers because they loved to experiment and were good at it.
posted by ardgedee at 3:48 PM on November 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
For a couple years they had a regular fall release just for profiling freshly-harvested hops, and if it wasn't for my liver and bank account I could have lived on that stuff. They never struck me as going to far down the rabbit hole of compulsory esoterica, they were just prolifically brewing weird beers because they loved to experiment and were good at it.
posted by ardgedee at 3:48 PM on November 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
You see this sort of think in the wine world all the time, but even more exaggerated, because the production is restricted by the dimensions of the vineyard itself and climate/soil/etc. mean that you can't just plant new ones.
And yes, the rarest wines have the highest prices. Plenty of Burgundies sell for hundreds of dollars at a minimum, and even at that price they're hard to find. But the industry as a whole is in such trouble that huge quantities of grapes are unceremoniously converted into industrial alcohol in order to prevent wholesale collapse.
It is really amazing how the extreme is considered the ideal, now. Either we guzzle industrial lager that was once introduced to a guy named Hops at a party, or else we sip a glass of hops with a bit of malt thrown in as a garnish. Or how a 21st Amendment "variety pack" at Costco includes a lager and three different IPAs. Sheesh. Give me a good German beer where I can taste the malt and the hops in harmony any day of the week. Even Sierra Nevada, which was groundbreaking in its day, is considered not nearly hoppy enough. Weird.
posted by wnissen at 4:40 PM on November 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
And yes, the rarest wines have the highest prices. Plenty of Burgundies sell for hundreds of dollars at a minimum, and even at that price they're hard to find. But the industry as a whole is in such trouble that huge quantities of grapes are unceremoniously converted into industrial alcohol in order to prevent wholesale collapse.
It is really amazing how the extreme is considered the ideal, now. Either we guzzle industrial lager that was once introduced to a guy named Hops at a party, or else we sip a glass of hops with a bit of malt thrown in as a garnish. Or how a 21st Amendment "variety pack" at Costco includes a lager and three different IPAs. Sheesh. Give me a good German beer where I can taste the malt and the hops in harmony any day of the week. Even Sierra Nevada, which was groundbreaking in its day, is considered not nearly hoppy enough. Weird.
posted by wnissen at 4:40 PM on November 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
Oh god. Beer snobbery, I, well, I have Opinions.
First off, I like beer. Second off I have a job in the beer industry, I'm a beer buyer (yes, a title that didn't exist a decade ago) for a large bottle shop, in a small Southern College Town. And beer hype is the bane of my existence.
Craft has now trickled down to be a passing hobby amongs the most affluent and most disposable income chuck of the most hated social segment of American Youth: The Bros.
You know the chest-beating, cash dropping, name flaunting group of which I speak. They are practically hipster but without the interesting facial hair. And they love beer. Not a volume of beer beloved of their fathers, no they want to be seen holding only the most choice and drool inducing beer, and they will stop at nothing to get it.
My city has a Hype Brew. The sort of thing that is a GET, for members of the sub-culture, and the bravado show is not to merely GET the beer, but show your elite skills by getting ALL or as close as you can get to ALL of the beer. Having a six pack is not enough, brah, I scored five cases last week and your haul is weak and shows you didn't try and maybe don't really GET beer like I do.
My god. The tears, the chest beating, the stupid tricks (no, I can still tell who you are even if you change shirts and yes, the limit is still the limit...). I got to the point where I had to stop reading up on beer news because the stupid culture is killing it. I still love beer, but have come to hate beer culture. (See also: the difference between golf, which is a fun game, and golf culure, which is a recognized level of hell)
So weep not for me, I still get to try amazing new brews everyday, some of which I can walk into my store and purchase on any given day without waiting in line or subject to any limit. But weep for the breweries who are becoming purveyors of the HYPE BEAST, without realizing the time of HYPE is fickle, and if you can't make a quality production beer that retails for around $10 a six pack, you won't be running a brewery for long, bucko, because the bank payment can't be made in hype, and those neckbeards who once flocked to you will scamper off the second you do some unnamable thing that renders you a "sellout" and 20 barrel brewing systems still got to be paid for, yo.
The crash is coming, mark my words, lots of little breweries started by over-confident homebrewers and late-to-the-game investors are going to find that the time slot to really own a market is over, and it's been so Balkanized, you won't be able to find a consistent niche. Then there's going to be a huge market in second-hand brewing equipment, which I'll happily purchase and put in my basement, because I like beer, and the one I'm most excited for is the next one I come up with and share with all my friends. And I suppose the bros will have moved on to something else to demonstrate whatever it is twentysomething maless are trying to demonstrate to other twentysomething males, and my life will be quiet once again.
posted by 1f2frfbf at 4:57 PM on November 21, 2016 [13 favorites]
First off, I like beer. Second off I have a job in the beer industry, I'm a beer buyer (yes, a title that didn't exist a decade ago) for a large bottle shop, in a small Southern College Town. And beer hype is the bane of my existence.
Craft has now trickled down to be a passing hobby amongs the most affluent and most disposable income chuck of the most hated social segment of American Youth: The Bros.
You know the chest-beating, cash dropping, name flaunting group of which I speak. They are practically hipster but without the interesting facial hair. And they love beer. Not a volume of beer beloved of their fathers, no they want to be seen holding only the most choice and drool inducing beer, and they will stop at nothing to get it.
My city has a Hype Brew. The sort of thing that is a GET, for members of the sub-culture, and the bravado show is not to merely GET the beer, but show your elite skills by getting ALL or as close as you can get to ALL of the beer. Having a six pack is not enough, brah, I scored five cases last week and your haul is weak and shows you didn't try and maybe don't really GET beer like I do.
My god. The tears, the chest beating, the stupid tricks (no, I can still tell who you are even if you change shirts and yes, the limit is still the limit...). I got to the point where I had to stop reading up on beer news because the stupid culture is killing it. I still love beer, but have come to hate beer culture. (See also: the difference between golf, which is a fun game, and golf culure, which is a recognized level of hell)
So weep not for me, I still get to try amazing new brews everyday, some of which I can walk into my store and purchase on any given day without waiting in line or subject to any limit. But weep for the breweries who are becoming purveyors of the HYPE BEAST, without realizing the time of HYPE is fickle, and if you can't make a quality production beer that retails for around $10 a six pack, you won't be running a brewery for long, bucko, because the bank payment can't be made in hype, and those neckbeards who once flocked to you will scamper off the second you do some unnamable thing that renders you a "sellout" and 20 barrel brewing systems still got to be paid for, yo.
The crash is coming, mark my words, lots of little breweries started by over-confident homebrewers and late-to-the-game investors are going to find that the time slot to really own a market is over, and it's been so Balkanized, you won't be able to find a consistent niche. Then there's going to be a huge market in second-hand brewing equipment, which I'll happily purchase and put in my basement, because I like beer, and the one I'm most excited for is the next one I come up with and share with all my friends. And I suppose the bros will have moved on to something else to demonstrate whatever it is twentysomething maless are trying to demonstrate to other twentysomething males, and my life will be quiet once again.
posted by 1f2frfbf at 4:57 PM on November 21, 2016 [13 favorites]
That's a great question, and spurred me to just try to find some from homebrewing. They seem... hard to find?
I have a case of pony bottles that were gifted to me in my wee years of homebrewing initiation. The are indeed a nice change of pace for certain brews.
posted by RolandOfEld at 6:21 PM on November 21, 2016
I have a case of pony bottles that were gifted to me in my wee years of homebrewing initiation. The are indeed a nice change of pace for certain brews.
posted by RolandOfEld at 6:21 PM on November 21, 2016
I am drinking a beer from a brewery around a 45 minute drive from my house, it's practically in Connecticut. It's a "Smoked Porter" - which is to say it's a porter with way too much hops and some nicely peat-smoked malt, likely swiped from the Whisky distillery up-bay (note the spelling, yes this is America.)
It comes in a 6-pack of cans, each with a glued on paper label.
Too hoppy, because masochists outnumber sadists ten to one, too sweet because they crammed more malt into it than was needed... but the smoke notes are there, and they're nice.
In the early aughts I do remember well Duvel and Fin Du Monde and Delerium Tremens - they were basically hyperalchoholic, watery brews with spices chucked in so you'd slow down a bit. Storm King was a really middle-of-the-road Imperial Russian Stout, back when that was a Brewpub staple to get you coming back... compared the to the banana-bread-batter at umpty% ABV that Trinity Brewpub in PVD was featuring for its winter-time regulars, Storm King was bitter and watery and a bit weak.
Tastes change and evolve! None of my local liquor marts, some of them rivaling Wal Marts in their size, carry sour beers. The single best glass of beer I've had in the past year was an Allegash Sour served in a frosted, tall mug. So completely balanced - sour, bitter, sweet, savory - and each flavor profile was so intense and recognizable you had to stop and let what you were tasting settle into you. Two mugs were enough to put me right to bed in my room upstairs, for a sound sleep and a nice morning. It wasn't until I got home and applied the Google that I realized "Allegash Sour" wasn't a thing. I have no idea what I was served that night at a Manhattan hotel, only that I remember it and want more.
This smoked porter is a bit awful. Yet, at least it tries, and I will have three cans of this in the back of my fridge forever until I remember I can make chili or poach chicken-brats...
posted by Slap*Happy at 8:06 PM on November 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
It comes in a 6-pack of cans, each with a glued on paper label.
Too hoppy, because masochists outnumber sadists ten to one, too sweet because they crammed more malt into it than was needed... but the smoke notes are there, and they're nice.
In the early aughts I do remember well Duvel and Fin Du Monde and Delerium Tremens - they were basically hyperalchoholic, watery brews with spices chucked in so you'd slow down a bit. Storm King was a really middle-of-the-road Imperial Russian Stout, back when that was a Brewpub staple to get you coming back... compared the to the banana-bread-batter at umpty% ABV that Trinity Brewpub in PVD was featuring for its winter-time regulars, Storm King was bitter and watery and a bit weak.
Tastes change and evolve! None of my local liquor marts, some of them rivaling Wal Marts in their size, carry sour beers. The single best glass of beer I've had in the past year was an Allegash Sour served in a frosted, tall mug. So completely balanced - sour, bitter, sweet, savory - and each flavor profile was so intense and recognizable you had to stop and let what you were tasting settle into you. Two mugs were enough to put me right to bed in my room upstairs, for a sound sleep and a nice morning. It wasn't until I got home and applied the Google that I realized "Allegash Sour" wasn't a thing. I have no idea what I was served that night at a Manhattan hotel, only that I remember it and want more.
This smoked porter is a bit awful. Yet, at least it tries, and I will have three cans of this in the back of my fridge forever until I remember I can make chili or poach chicken-brats...
posted by Slap*Happy at 8:06 PM on November 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
This is a joke from a Douglas Adams novel, isn't it?
I really wanted to favorite that remark but it has 42 favorites right now and I just couldn't bring myself to mess it up.
I enjoy trying different beers (I first tried Duvel 35 years ago) but don't don't have an interest in best of lists or paying attention to what people are drinking now. There is one aspect of ranking rare beers high on your list that I haven't seen mentioned. If hardly anyone has tried the beers at the top of a best of list, hardly anyone can argue with your selections.
posted by TedW at 2:13 AM on November 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
I really wanted to favorite that remark but it has 42 favorites right now and I just couldn't bring myself to mess it up.
I enjoy trying different beers (I first tried Duvel 35 years ago) but don't don't have an interest in best of lists or paying attention to what people are drinking now. There is one aspect of ranking rare beers high on your list that I haven't seen mentioned. If hardly anyone has tried the beers at the top of a best of list, hardly anyone can argue with your selections.
posted by TedW at 2:13 AM on November 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
Superb post.
posted by The Salaryman at 6:40 AM on November 22, 2016
posted by The Salaryman at 6:40 AM on November 22, 2016
I have no idea what I was served that night at a Manhattan hotel, only that I remember it and want more.
Based on the description I'd guess Allagash Curieux. It's the widest-available sour Allagash beer, and at 11% two would very likely put you to bed. It's not exactly common but it's far from rare; you should be able to find bottles at most recently-stocked beer stores (at least on the east coast).
If you do pick up a bottle, I'd be curious to hear if it's the beer you're not thinking of.
posted by Itaxpica at 8:47 AM on November 22, 2016
Based on the description I'd guess Allagash Curieux. It's the widest-available sour Allagash beer, and at 11% two would very likely put you to bed. It's not exactly common but it's far from rare; you should be able to find bottles at most recently-stocked beer stores (at least on the east coast).
If you do pick up a bottle, I'd be curious to hear if it's the beer you're not thinking of.
posted by Itaxpica at 8:47 AM on November 22, 2016
I had Bell's Christmas Ale over the weekend - a mild Scottish Ale fit for session drinking but you want to drink it at 50 F.
posted by Ber at 10:55 AM on November 22, 2016
posted by Ber at 10:55 AM on November 22, 2016
"You can make the most perfect example of a porter or an ESB or a dry stout, but the market isn't there for it."
To refine this point, I'm gonna use the example of one of our local breweries, Eagle Rock.
They've got a session black mild called Solidarity that's pretty good. Sometimes they really nail it; other times it's a bit thin, but it's consistently worth trying if you want a low ABV ale with some character. It used to be one of their flagship beers.
When they launched, it was $3.99 for a 22oz. Now it's a seasonal beer for $7.99 at 22, and it's a lot harder to argue that it's worth the premium price. $8 for a 22 is about entry for most major indie IPA 22s around here (Arrogant Bastard, Laguanitas, Golden Road), and Eagle Rock can sell a 4-pint pack of cans of Doomlaüt for $15. Even acknowledging the higher ingredient cost for Doomlaüt, the margin has to be so much higher.
Fuller's ESB is available nearly everywhere. Red Hook ESB used to (for some reason, we now only seem to get their shitty variety packs). It's not that there isn't a market for ESBs and dry stouts, it's that the market is already saturated because those beers are easier to scale to a major level. If you want to sell a dry stout, you're competing with Murphy's, Beamish and Guinness, and they have enough distribution to make their thin margins workable.
And there are legit ESBs out there: AleSmith Anvil is pretty good, as is Full Sail's ESB. Founder's used to make one, as did Bell's, but they seem to have dropped them. And, like I mentioned, Red Hook is probably the big dog of the ESB for American major-micro breweries.
"Craft has now trickled down to be a passing hobby amongs the most affluent and most disposable income chuck of the most hated social segment of American Youth: The Bros."
Yeah, this is my wife's cousin to a t. Which, god bless him, means that he's no longer bringing Blue Moon and Shocktop to family get togethers, but he's deep in the HOPSKULLFUCK weeds right now. He's why I got onto Untappd, to fight a passive aggressive war against his newfound dick swinging.
For my money, the beers I enjoy the most are the ones that get good depth of flavor while nailing a style profile — off the top of my head, my two favorite beers to drink are probably Bell's Amber and Great Lakes Edmund Fitzgerald porter. Neither try to blow your face off, but both are damn good at what they do.
posted by klangklangston at 12:03 PM on November 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
To refine this point, I'm gonna use the example of one of our local breweries, Eagle Rock.
They've got a session black mild called Solidarity that's pretty good. Sometimes they really nail it; other times it's a bit thin, but it's consistently worth trying if you want a low ABV ale with some character. It used to be one of their flagship beers.
When they launched, it was $3.99 for a 22oz. Now it's a seasonal beer for $7.99 at 22, and it's a lot harder to argue that it's worth the premium price. $8 for a 22 is about entry for most major indie IPA 22s around here (Arrogant Bastard, Laguanitas, Golden Road), and Eagle Rock can sell a 4-pint pack of cans of Doomlaüt for $15. Even acknowledging the higher ingredient cost for Doomlaüt, the margin has to be so much higher.
Fuller's ESB is available nearly everywhere. Red Hook ESB used to (for some reason, we now only seem to get their shitty variety packs). It's not that there isn't a market for ESBs and dry stouts, it's that the market is already saturated because those beers are easier to scale to a major level. If you want to sell a dry stout, you're competing with Murphy's, Beamish and Guinness, and they have enough distribution to make their thin margins workable.
And there are legit ESBs out there: AleSmith Anvil is pretty good, as is Full Sail's ESB. Founder's used to make one, as did Bell's, but they seem to have dropped them. And, like I mentioned, Red Hook is probably the big dog of the ESB for American major-micro breweries.
"Craft has now trickled down to be a passing hobby amongs the most affluent and most disposable income chuck of the most hated social segment of American Youth: The Bros."
Yeah, this is my wife's cousin to a t. Which, god bless him, means that he's no longer bringing Blue Moon and Shocktop to family get togethers, but he's deep in the HOPSKULLFUCK weeds right now. He's why I got onto Untappd, to fight a passive aggressive war against his newfound dick swinging.
For my money, the beers I enjoy the most are the ones that get good depth of flavor while nailing a style profile — off the top of my head, my two favorite beers to drink are probably Bell's Amber and Great Lakes Edmund Fitzgerald porter. Neither try to blow your face off, but both are damn good at what they do.
posted by klangklangston at 12:03 PM on November 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
Oh, and here's a bonus tip with less typos and run-on sentences than my last comment...
If you're interested in sour beers, but afraid of the pucker and wallet hit, try a cocktail that at my store we call Poking the Bear:
1. Grab a slightly sour Berliner Weisse, the cheaper the better. Surely a brewery near you makes a fair to mediocre one which is fine for our purposes. If not, Bell's Oarsman is almost nationally available (in cans no less!) and is really good.
2. Grab a bottle of aromatic but not piney gin. My go-to is New Amsterdam, but pick your fav. Don't get anything that's more than $15 a 750ml. Or better yet, something in dollar airplane shot bottles. We're being ironically hipster here, not show-offs.
3. Take a pint glass, fill with ice, squeeze some citrus fruit into it. I like Key Lemon juice, because it's a step up from the squeeze lemons at the grocery store, but I'll use those in a pinch. You can do a lime, grapefruit, meyer lemons or whatever. This is supposed to be simple... don't complicate things, don't be precious.
4. Pour in a generous shot of gin, top up with the sour wheat beer. Stir. Drink. Repeat.
Consider life, and realize that beer has many purposes, find one that suits your path and to hell with anyone who thinks they get to dictate what you enjoy. Maybe you could do something similar with a dry stout, orange and whiskey. Possibly a smooth repasado tequila and a nice aged barleywine. Beer as a mixer... that will horrify the purists and critics... take that freedom and run. There's a lot you can do to enjoy stuff in your own way. Drink beer, not hype.
posted by 1f2frfbf at 3:33 PM on November 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
If you're interested in sour beers, but afraid of the pucker and wallet hit, try a cocktail that at my store we call Poking the Bear:
1. Grab a slightly sour Berliner Weisse, the cheaper the better. Surely a brewery near you makes a fair to mediocre one which is fine for our purposes. If not, Bell's Oarsman is almost nationally available (in cans no less!) and is really good.
2. Grab a bottle of aromatic but not piney gin. My go-to is New Amsterdam, but pick your fav. Don't get anything that's more than $15 a 750ml. Or better yet, something in dollar airplane shot bottles. We're being ironically hipster here, not show-offs.
3. Take a pint glass, fill with ice, squeeze some citrus fruit into it. I like Key Lemon juice, because it's a step up from the squeeze lemons at the grocery store, but I'll use those in a pinch. You can do a lime, grapefruit, meyer lemons or whatever. This is supposed to be simple... don't complicate things, don't be precious.
4. Pour in a generous shot of gin, top up with the sour wheat beer. Stir. Drink. Repeat.
Consider life, and realize that beer has many purposes, find one that suits your path and to hell with anyone who thinks they get to dictate what you enjoy. Maybe you could do something similar with a dry stout, orange and whiskey. Possibly a smooth repasado tequila and a nice aged barleywine. Beer as a mixer... that will horrify the purists and critics... take that freedom and run. There's a lot you can do to enjoy stuff in your own way. Drink beer, not hype.
posted by 1f2frfbf at 3:33 PM on November 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
So I am right now drinking the local APA that I stood on line for a bit to buy the other day, and ... it's goddamn good. Just a beautiful beer. Gigantic nose full of fresh hops, without being raw and grassy the way some dry-hopped NE IPAs are; bitter, without being a palate-wrecker; just enough malt to keep it in balance. If these guys can keep making beer like this, the lines could get long in a hurry (although the out-of-the-way location with lousy parking will mitigate it, somewhat).
posted by uncleozzy at 5:24 PM on November 22, 2016
posted by uncleozzy at 5:24 PM on November 22, 2016
Grab a slightly sour Berliner Weisse, the cheaper the better
ERROR: Rest of comment invalid, assumes more than one Berliner Weisse available within reasonable driving distance. Commencing mourning routine.
But seriously, thanks for that. I am lucky enough that I can find one or two sour beers (usually the duchess, not my favorite but I'll take what I can get), sometimes a BerlinerWeisse, at the local nice liquor store. I need to get back into homebrewing...
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:59 AM on November 23, 2016
ERROR: Rest of comment invalid, assumes more than one Berliner Weisse available within reasonable driving distance. Commencing mourning routine.
But seriously, thanks for that. I am lucky enough that I can find one or two sour beers (usually the duchess, not my favorite but I'll take what I can get), sometimes a BerlinerWeisse, at the local nice liquor store. I need to get back into homebrewing...
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:59 AM on November 23, 2016
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People line up for hours for it, huh? I camped out for Sinéad O'Connor tickets once.
Once.
this snarky comment brought to you by Johnny Dangerously — the new 20th Century Fox movie starring Michael Keaton — in theaters soon!
posted by not_on_display at 10:45 PM on November 20, 2016 [8 favorites]