What happens when you flush a bunch of sodium down the toilet?
November 21, 2016 4:18 PM Subscribe
Pretty much what you would expect. This is the same toilet that Cody's Lab used to flush 240lbs of mercury. It gives its all for Science when Grant Thompson (of Backyard Solar Death Ray fame) invites Cody to a flush-a-thon.
"This is the same toilet...I've cleaned out all the mercury"
Sure you did, let's call the EPA just in case.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 4:27 PM on November 21, 2016 [6 favorites]
Sure you did, let's call the EPA just in case.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 4:27 PM on November 21, 2016 [6 favorites]
Yeah these guys are lucky not to have bits of toilet permanently embedded in their bodies. They could still get just as many views with some reasonable protective gear and a proper rig to do this from a suitable distance.
posted by zachlipton at 4:43 PM on November 21, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 4:43 PM on November 21, 2016 [3 favorites]
Yeah there's a scene at the end where some of it explodes "right in my face!" and then he holds up his sunglasses with specks of white on them (not clear to me whether it was flecks of sodium oxide or bits of the toilet they just blew up.... (spoiler alert, the toilet blows up))
That said it turns out I am amused by seeing people blow up a toilet in a parking lot. I just wish they had taken a little more care with it.
posted by quaking fajita at 4:45 PM on November 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
That said it turns out I am amused by seeing people blow up a toilet in a parking lot. I just wish they had taken a little more care with it.
posted by quaking fajita at 4:45 PM on November 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
I laughed when the toilet blew up and my son will NOT be seeing this video.
posted by Annika Cicada at 4:51 PM on November 21, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by Annika Cicada at 4:51 PM on November 21, 2016 [5 favorites]
THAT WAS EPIC, DAWG!!!
posted by indubitable at 4:54 PM on November 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by indubitable at 4:54 PM on November 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
I think you forgot the "epic" tag, about three or four times
posted by DoctorFedora at 5:02 PM on November 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by DoctorFedora at 5:02 PM on November 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
"This is the same toilet...I've cleaned out all the mercury"
Sure you did, let's call the EPA just in case.
Tell them Mercury is in metro grade.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 5:06 PM on November 21, 2016 [3 favorites]
Sure you did, let's call the EPA just in case.
Tell them Mercury is in metro grade.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 5:06 PM on November 21, 2016 [3 favorites]
Cody's Lab definitely walks close to the edge. I've known some guys like that. It's a warning sign when their friends say things like yeah, you do that, I'll watch from over here.
But I can say that I know what shooting a .375 H&H (in a light weight Ruger No. 1) feels like (not that bad really).
posted by Bee'sWing at 5:09 PM on November 21, 2016
But I can say that I know what shooting a .375 H&H (in a light weight Ruger No. 1) feels like (not that bad really).
posted by Bee'sWing at 5:09 PM on November 21, 2016
The latest one shows them flushing a toilet with liquid nitrogen.
posted by 445supermag at 5:37 PM on November 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by 445supermag at 5:37 PM on November 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
Every time I see something from Cody's Lab, all I can think is, "wonderful, the inevitable march to his on-screen death or dismemberment continues.". He doesn't walk close to the edge; he's frankly careless, and has roughly the same attitude as the kind of people who are death-defying immortals right up until they fly a wingsuit into the side of a mountain.
posted by tocts at 6:13 PM on November 21, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by tocts at 6:13 PM on November 21, 2016 [9 favorites]
The Dune Encyclopedia has a comment that Emperor Shaddam's father or grandfather was assassinated by a brick of sodium dropped into his bathtub.
posted by ovvl at 6:34 PM on November 21, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by ovvl at 6:34 PM on November 21, 2016 [10 favorites]
The 2016 US presidential election, folks.
posted by teferi at 6:38 PM on November 21, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by teferi at 6:38 PM on November 21, 2016 [3 favorites]
wonderful, the inevitable march to his on-screen death or dismemberment continues...
You mean like using drain cleaner as a condiment or drinking cyanide ("My hands are starting to tingle"?
posted by 445supermag at 7:05 PM on November 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
You mean like using drain cleaner as a condiment or drinking cyanide ("My hands are starting to tingle"?
posted by 445supermag at 7:05 PM on November 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
Yeah, I've spent over a decade in chemistry labs, and been responsible for lab safety in some form or another for more than half that time. I'm aware of what can happen when you don't take safety seriously. These guys are irresponsible and are likely to hurt themselves or others.
posted by Existential Dread at 7:22 PM on November 21, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by Existential Dread at 7:22 PM on November 21, 2016 [11 favorites]
(Maybe you could change your username to "Experimental Dread" after reading those linked articles. Yikes!)
posted by wenestvedt at 7:34 PM on November 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by wenestvedt at 7:34 PM on November 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
In fact, you can tell they didn't properly clean out the toilet of mercury. During the first explosion, all kinds of garbage floods down, and there's spots of silver in the toilet afterwards.
posted by Imperfect at 7:53 PM on November 21, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by Imperfect at 7:53 PM on November 21, 2016 [5 favorites]
I imagine people like Cody and Grant would have made excellent alchemists, explorers and inventors a few hundred years ago, when taking a chunk of sodium to the eye was probably more appealing than dying of cholera or gangrene.
Consider another post on the front page right now, about the Deane brothers inventing the diving helmet and experimenting with the first practical surface-supplied diving. We are fascinated with stories like that, or for example with early aviation, though if someone did a post with a youtube channel where someone was experimenting with homemade brass-and-canvas diving apparatus with no consideration for the bends, or where a local bicycle mechanic was trying homemade wooden gliders, we'd also be calling them fucking idiots.
I really suspect that, with our modern knowledge of chemistry, Cody's life is safer than that of a prospector and miner in the American West in the 19th century. And I reckon the mindset is the same. He's just been born in an era where our (hard-won) standards for OH&S are high and exacting, and we have the option of a life of office work without dangerous, poisonous labour.
And hey, with the 2016 we've had, a gung-ho hobbyist playing with mercury in the back yard is a long way down the list of long-term environmental disasters. And arguably no worse for your health than binge drinking to deal with election results.
posted by other barry at 8:18 PM on November 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
Consider another post on the front page right now, about the Deane brothers inventing the diving helmet and experimenting with the first practical surface-supplied diving. We are fascinated with stories like that, or for example with early aviation, though if someone did a post with a youtube channel where someone was experimenting with homemade brass-and-canvas diving apparatus with no consideration for the bends, or where a local bicycle mechanic was trying homemade wooden gliders, we'd also be calling them fucking idiots.
I really suspect that, with our modern knowledge of chemistry, Cody's life is safer than that of a prospector and miner in the American West in the 19th century. And I reckon the mindset is the same. He's just been born in an era where our (hard-won) standards for OH&S are high and exacting, and we have the option of a life of office work without dangerous, poisonous labour.
And hey, with the 2016 we've had, a gung-ho hobbyist playing with mercury in the back yard is a long way down the list of long-term environmental disasters. And arguably no worse for your health than binge drinking to deal with election results.
posted by other barry at 8:18 PM on November 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
We have the option of a life of office work without dangerous, poisonous labour.
Speaking of which, I recently heard just sitting for extended periods of time takes years off of your life. So it may be a toss up between the slow death of office work versus a fiery denouement while flushing non-excremental chemicals down a toilet.
posted by njohnson23 at 8:25 PM on November 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
Speaking of which, I recently heard just sitting for extended periods of time takes years off of your life. So it may be a toss up between the slow death of office work versus a fiery denouement while flushing non-excremental chemicals down a toilet.
posted by njohnson23 at 8:25 PM on November 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
But they're not inventing the diving helmet or the airplane; they're making YouTube videos for our amusement in 2016. Which means they can take some basic minimal measures to avoid becoming someone else's mess to clean up, like figuring out a safer approach than "wear a work glove, hold a bunch of sodium at arms length, drop it in the general direction of the toilet (letting some fall on the ground), and try to run away."
There's taking some personal risks inherent in the pursuit of new inventions, and then there's just being a dumbass because you couldn't be bothered to order a face shield off Amazon or rig up an apparatus that provides you with minimal protection from entirely foreseeable hazards. This is the latter.
posted by zachlipton at 8:41 PM on November 21, 2016 [10 favorites]
There's taking some personal risks inherent in the pursuit of new inventions, and then there's just being a dumbass because you couldn't be bothered to order a face shield off Amazon or rig up an apparatus that provides you with minimal protection from entirely foreseeable hazards. This is the latter.
posted by zachlipton at 8:41 PM on November 21, 2016 [10 favorites]
Speaking of which, I recently heard just sitting for extended periods of time takes years off of your life. So it may be a toss up between the slow death of office work versus a fiery denouement while flushing non-excremental chemicals down a toilet.
You know, you can work standing at a hood or a lab bench and avoid both early deaths.
(The prolonged exposure cancer's probably going to get me, though.)
posted by maryr at 9:02 PM on November 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
You know, you can work standing at a hood or a lab bench and avoid both early deaths.
(The prolonged exposure cancer's probably going to get me, though.)
posted by maryr at 9:02 PM on November 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
Yeah, these guys are attempting to fill the void left by Mythbusters with an extra helping of Science! but none of their methodical approach to safety. Frankly I don't care if either of them loses an eye or gets cyanide poisoning or takes an unsafe blast of radiation. My problem is that they demonstrate to kids on the internet the absolute stupidest way to do experiments or cool chemical reactions or what have you. The reaction of sodium and water is awesome! It's well understood science! You have to wear fucking eye protection, and probably ear protection, when you do the reaction!
I mean, I had a 10th grade teacher who introduced us to chemistry by doing this very thing, dropping a big chunk of sodium in a bucket of water. In a classroom. Without ever telling us what he was doing. The explosion gave me (thankfully temporary) tinnitus, set off the fire alarm, and scorched the ceiling. It was awesome, but extremely irresponsible.
In one of those articles I linked, a professor at UCLA was facing felony charges by having a recent grad do an unsupervised reaction with a well-known hazardous compound, tert-butyl lithium. It catches fire spontaneously in air. She wasn't wearing a lab coat, it spilled, she died eighteen days later. Chemical safety isn't a joke, especially if your medium is cool shit! videos on the internet for kids who don't know much about proper lab technique.
posted by Existential Dread at 9:13 PM on November 21, 2016 [12 favorites]
I mean, I had a 10th grade teacher who introduced us to chemistry by doing this very thing, dropping a big chunk of sodium in a bucket of water. In a classroom. Without ever telling us what he was doing. The explosion gave me (thankfully temporary) tinnitus, set off the fire alarm, and scorched the ceiling. It was awesome, but extremely irresponsible.
In one of those articles I linked, a professor at UCLA was facing felony charges by having a recent grad do an unsupervised reaction with a well-known hazardous compound, tert-butyl lithium. It catches fire spontaneously in air. She wasn't wearing a lab coat, it spilled, she died eighteen days later. Chemical safety isn't a joke, especially if your medium is cool shit! videos on the internet for kids who don't know much about proper lab technique.
posted by Existential Dread at 9:13 PM on November 21, 2016 [12 favorites]
This is one of many examples of how, with good ol' American ingenuity, we are quickly closing the "You hold the camera while I do something wicked dangerous using SCIENCE" gap with the Russians. (See also 2016 US Election.)
posted by not_on_display at 9:42 PM on November 21, 2016
posted by not_on_display at 9:42 PM on November 21, 2016
(stiffly) the same thing that happens to everything else
posted by Sebmojo at 11:01 PM on November 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Sebmojo at 11:01 PM on November 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
Apparently my understanding of what Sodium is was lacking.
posted by bongo_x at 11:12 PM on November 21, 2016
posted by bongo_x at 11:12 PM on November 21, 2016
It's like anything – in tiny amounts as the impure version we eat, namely salt, it's unlikely to hurt you. But in its elementary form, yeah, this is the reaction:
2Na(s) + 2H2O → 2NaOH(aq) + H2(g)
where s = solid, aq = aqueous, and g = gas
2NaOH is sodium hydroxide (caustic soda, also known as lye), and H2 is hydrogen gas. Hydrogen likes to combust. Oh and what does sodium hydroxide do? "Sodium hydroxide is a dangerous chemical due to its ability to hydrolyze protein. If a dilute solution is spilled on the skin, burns may result if the area is not washed thoroughly and for several minutes with running water." In other words, it digests tissue.
What do you get when you combine explosiveness with a chemical that can digest tissues? Yeah, these guys are idiots.
posted by fraula at 2:14 AM on November 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
2Na(s) + 2H2O → 2NaOH(aq) + H2(g)
where s = solid, aq = aqueous, and g = gas
2NaOH is sodium hydroxide (caustic soda, also known as lye), and H2 is hydrogen gas. Hydrogen likes to combust. Oh and what does sodium hydroxide do? "Sodium hydroxide is a dangerous chemical due to its ability to hydrolyze protein. If a dilute solution is spilled on the skin, burns may result if the area is not washed thoroughly and for several minutes with running water." In other words, it digests tissue.
What do you get when you combine explosiveness with a chemical that can digest tissues? Yeah, these guys are idiots.
posted by fraula at 2:14 AM on November 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
Yeah, these guys are attempting to fill the void left by Mythbusters with an extra helping of Science! but none of their methodical approach to safety.
And not that much Science! In addition to a lackadaisical approach to safety, they only give a cursory explanation of what is happening (I'm not sure if they understand it well themselves; see below) I didn't see any attempt at measuring temperature, amounts of reagents, etc., the sort of thing Mythbusters was good at.
I thought his messing around with KOH was worrisome because there was no attempt to quantify the amount of potassium ingested. Despite Cody's statement that potassium is good for you, too much (hyperkalemia) can be quite dangerous, even life-threatening. Also, who thinks sports drinks are too acidic to drink?
posted by TedW at 2:38 AM on November 22, 2016
And not that much Science! In addition to a lackadaisical approach to safety, they only give a cursory explanation of what is happening (I'm not sure if they understand it well themselves; see below) I didn't see any attempt at measuring temperature, amounts of reagents, etc., the sort of thing Mythbusters was good at.
I thought his messing around with KOH was worrisome because there was no attempt to quantify the amount of potassium ingested. Despite Cody's statement that potassium is good for you, too much (hyperkalemia) can be quite dangerous, even life-threatening. Also, who thinks sports drinks are too acidic to drink?
posted by TedW at 2:38 AM on November 22, 2016
In fact, you can tell they didn't properly clean out the toilet of mercury
I saw Toilets of Mercury opening for Frenulum back in '92
posted by thelonius at 2:55 AM on November 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
I saw Toilets of Mercury opening for Frenulum back in '92
posted by thelonius at 2:55 AM on November 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
Let's see what happens when we flush a bunch of live ocelots down a toilet
posted by beerperson at 7:34 AM on November 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by beerperson at 7:34 AM on November 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
Well, well. Let's just remember for a minute how Albert Hoffman discovered LSD by ingesting way too much of it and then riding home on his bike. Let's remember that Allan Walker Blair proved that black widows are venomous by forcing one to bite him. There's also some history of serious scientists inserting electrodes into every orifice you might care to think of, and recording the effect of increasing currents (including, whosit, who said he was going to marry his galvanic battery)...
I'm not saying being stupid makes you a scientist, but it doesn't disqualify you either. Now hold my beer.
posted by kleinsteradikaleminderheit at 8:21 AM on November 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm not saying being stupid makes you a scientist, but it doesn't disqualify you either. Now hold my beer.
posted by kleinsteradikaleminderheit at 8:21 AM on November 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
kleinster, I think the problem (which zachlipton pointed out a few comments back) is that they are not even trying to be scientists. They're not trying to discover or learn anything (except maybe whether they can blow up a toilet with sodium?). It's not just the lack of safety protocols.
Plus they're not just being stupid, they're spreading stupidity, which is far worse. I'd be willing to take bets that at least a few idiots are going to see this and try something similar themselves, with the same disregard for safety, and get hurt or killed.
posted by Gaz Errant at 8:28 AM on November 22, 2016 [6 favorites]
Plus they're not just being stupid, they're spreading stupidity, which is far worse. I'd be willing to take bets that at least a few idiots are going to see this and try something similar themselves, with the same disregard for safety, and get hurt or killed.
posted by Gaz Errant at 8:28 AM on November 22, 2016 [6 favorites]
"Hey, let's see what happens if..." is a totally scientific question. It might not be interesting to you, or you might already know, or you might think it's not worth the risk. But saying "there's no science in finding out if you can blow up a toilet with liquid nitrogen" is both inaccurate and uninteresting.
I have a lot of issues with the science in mythbusters, but most of them concern the times when they say the answered the question, but actually they didn't. "You don't know this, and I do, so your experiment isn't worthwhile" is not a valid critique. And lab safety is important, but not part of the definition of science.
My point, though, was that doing stupid things is and always has been part of science, and even if "hey, you CAN blow up a toilet" is unlikely to get published in Nature, the spirit of adventure is genuine, and 'real' scientists forget about it too often, especially when they're teaching. These guys may be idiots, but they're picking up the slack for all the uninspiring lab coats out there.
posted by kleinsteradikaleminderheit at 8:47 AM on November 22, 2016
I have a lot of issues with the science in mythbusters, but most of them concern the times when they say the answered the question, but actually they didn't. "You don't know this, and I do, so your experiment isn't worthwhile" is not a valid critique. And lab safety is important, but not part of the definition of science.
My point, though, was that doing stupid things is and always has been part of science, and even if "hey, you CAN blow up a toilet" is unlikely to get published in Nature, the spirit of adventure is genuine, and 'real' scientists forget about it too often, especially when they're teaching. These guys may be idiots, but they're picking up the slack for all the uninspiring lab coats out there.
posted by kleinsteradikaleminderheit at 8:47 AM on November 22, 2016
The spirit of adventure is just as genuine if you wear a face shield. Amazon can have one here tomorrow for less than $20.
posted by zachlipton at 10:08 AM on November 22, 2016
posted by zachlipton at 10:08 AM on November 22, 2016
I know a guy who knows a guy who might have flushed sodium down the St. Pius High School girls toilet one time almost 30 years ago. It was… impressive. Allegedly.
posted by ob1quixote at 10:19 AM on November 22, 2016
posted by ob1quixote at 10:19 AM on November 22, 2016
Sigh. Yes, they should wear protective gear, and they're idiots. I'm officially giving up on making a point beyond that.
posted by kleinsteradikaleminderheit at 10:26 AM on November 22, 2016
posted by kleinsteradikaleminderheit at 10:26 AM on November 22, 2016
Except maybe to ask zombie Feynman what he has to say.
posted by kleinsteradikaleminderheit at 10:40 AM on November 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by kleinsteradikaleminderheit at 10:40 AM on November 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
Zombie Feynman would probably suggest a face shield so the ninja doesn't get killed. Personal safety within the bounds of the experiment is absolutely a part of science.
posted by disconnect at 11:27 AM on November 22, 2016
posted by disconnect at 11:27 AM on November 22, 2016
I don't know about zombie Feynman (ask Randall I guess), but if you've read Feynman's autobiography, you know that he once burned his hand by dipping it in alcohol and setting it on fire. He may or may not have been wearing a face shield.
posted by kleinsteradikaleminderheit at 11:37 AM on November 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by kleinsteradikaleminderheit at 11:37 AM on November 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
he once burned his hand by dipping it in alcohol and setting it on fire.
And the scientific progress in this episode was? Look, science is bookkeeping. You make an observation about the world, you design (and record!) your hypothesis, you devise an experiment to test your hypothesis, you record the initial conditions, your observations, and the results, and then you draw conclusions and iterate. Without bookkeeping, without writing it down, you're simply spinning your wheels and adding nothing to the body of scientific work.
Mythbusters went to great pains to document their proposed hypotheses and design their experiments. They drew conclusions at the end of each episode. If they failed, they occasionally came back to revisit failed experiments and try again.
What's demonstrated here is nothing more than thrillseeking. They're provoking a chemical reaction in order to destroy some porcelain, but they're not doing anything scientific. There's no hypothesis beyond "let's put enough sodium into a toilet bowl to blow the damned thing up," no measurements, no conclusions. The lack of safety gear is part and parcel of that thrillseeking. Promoting irresponsible handling of dangerous chemicals is to the detriment of actual science, whether or not you find it more inspiring than the work of thousands of tedious uninspiring labcoats.
posted by Existential Dread at 1:00 PM on November 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
And the scientific progress in this episode was? Look, science is bookkeeping. You make an observation about the world, you design (and record!) your hypothesis, you devise an experiment to test your hypothesis, you record the initial conditions, your observations, and the results, and then you draw conclusions and iterate. Without bookkeeping, without writing it down, you're simply spinning your wheels and adding nothing to the body of scientific work.
Mythbusters went to great pains to document their proposed hypotheses and design their experiments. They drew conclusions at the end of each episode. If they failed, they occasionally came back to revisit failed experiments and try again.
What's demonstrated here is nothing more than thrillseeking. They're provoking a chemical reaction in order to destroy some porcelain, but they're not doing anything scientific. There's no hypothesis beyond "let's put enough sodium into a toilet bowl to blow the damned thing up," no measurements, no conclusions. The lack of safety gear is part and parcel of that thrillseeking. Promoting irresponsible handling of dangerous chemicals is to the detriment of actual science, whether or not you find it more inspiring than the work of thousands of tedious uninspiring labcoats.
posted by Existential Dread at 1:00 PM on November 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
> And the scientific progress in this episode was?
Episode? Feynman. Safe cracker, curious person, one of the greatest scientists who ever lived. Part of the Manhattan project. The father of quantum electrodynamics. Are we talking about the same thing here?
And the scientific progress was, he wanted to know, and then he did.
> Look, science is bookkeeping.
That, speaking as a scientist, is one of the most depressing things I've ever heard.
posted by kleinsteradikaleminderheit at 1:32 PM on November 22, 2016
Episode? Feynman. Safe cracker, curious person, one of the greatest scientists who ever lived. Part of the Manhattan project. The father of quantum electrodynamics. Are we talking about the same thing here?
And the scientific progress was, he wanted to know, and then he did.
> Look, science is bookkeeping.
That, speaking as a scientist, is one of the most depressing things I've ever heard.
posted by kleinsteradikaleminderheit at 1:32 PM on November 22, 2016
> whether or not you find it more inspiring than the work of thousands of tedious uninspiring labcoats.
I respect the science of all people in lab coats (well, unless it's bad, but generally). I don't universally respect their teaching methods. And I'm already inspired, thank you very much. What I'm talking about is communicating the essence of it, and whatever you do, trying to convince people to be curious, and showing them that science is not 'the thing that happens in a lab'.
Science is how we answer questions, and nobody gets to tell you what question you want answered (except for the NSF. And the NIH. And the NIMH. Whatever).
posted by kleinsteradikaleminderheit at 1:53 PM on November 22, 2016
I respect the science of all people in lab coats (well, unless it's bad, but generally). I don't universally respect their teaching methods. And I'm already inspired, thank you very much. What I'm talking about is communicating the essence of it, and whatever you do, trying to convince people to be curious, and showing them that science is not 'the thing that happens in a lab'.
Science is how we answer questions, and nobody gets to tell you what question you want answered (except for the NSF. And the NIH. And the NIMH. Whatever).
posted by kleinsteradikaleminderheit at 1:53 PM on November 22, 2016
Are we talking about the same thing here?
Well, you said he lit his hand on fire. I asked what scientific progress was created in doing so. I'm not impugning Feynman's body of work, just the thought that lighting one's hand on fire represents scientific progress.
And the scientific progress was, he wanted to know, and then he did.
That sounds like curiosity. A component of scientific discovery, sure. Not necessarily science in and of itself.
> Look, science is bookkeeping.
That, speaking as a scientist, is one of the most depressing things I've ever heard.
Okay. Ever kept a lab notebook?
posted by Existential Dread at 3:37 PM on November 22, 2016
Well, you said he lit his hand on fire. I asked what scientific progress was created in doing so. I'm not impugning Feynman's body of work, just the thought that lighting one's hand on fire represents scientific progress.
And the scientific progress was, he wanted to know, and then he did.
That sounds like curiosity. A component of scientific discovery, sure. Not necessarily science in and of itself.
> Look, science is bookkeeping.
That, speaking as a scientist, is one of the most depressing things I've ever heard.
Okay. Ever kept a lab notebook?
posted by Existential Dread at 3:37 PM on November 22, 2016
I thought his messing around with KOH was worrisome because there was no attempt to quantify the amount of potassium ingested. Despite Cody's statement that potassium is good for you, too much (hyperkalemia) can be quite dangerous, even life-threatening.
I'm under the impression that KCl taken orally is only a little more toxic than NaCl - the hazard from the potassium seems unlikely to be major here. The hazard from the OH is obvious but also it's easy to see how that's controllable so this demo doesn't bother me that much. The cyanide one does instinctively wig me out a little no matter how carefully he measured it.
posted by atoxyl at 4:22 PM on November 22, 2016
I'm under the impression that KCl taken orally is only a little more toxic than NaCl - the hazard from the potassium seems unlikely to be major here. The hazard from the OH is obvious but also it's easy to see how that's controllable so this demo doesn't bother me that much. The cyanide one does instinctively wig me out a little no matter how carefully he measured it.
posted by atoxyl at 4:22 PM on November 22, 2016
kleinster, I think the problem (which zachlipton pointed out a few comments back) is that they are not even trying to be scientists.
They're science popularizers - it's not a problem that they're not trying to be scientists. I do also wish they demonstrated safety a little better though given that impressionable people are likely to be watching.
posted by atoxyl at 4:24 PM on November 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
They're science popularizers - it's not a problem that they're not trying to be scientists. I do also wish they demonstrated safety a little better though given that impressionable people are likely to be watching.
posted by atoxyl at 4:24 PM on November 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
Isaac Newton jammed probes up into his eyes when he was working on opticks
posted by thelonius at 5:39 PM on November 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by thelonius at 5:39 PM on November 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
Isaac Newton jammed probes up into his eyes when he was working on opticks
And again, as has been stated by many in this thread, that has fuck-all to do with what Cody does.
Choosing to use your own body in an experiment intended to measure some aspect of the body is literally nothing at all like undertaking a demonstration where your express intent is to not involve your body, but doing it with such a cavalier attitude towards basic safety that your body only avoided becoming part of the demonstration through sheer luck.
They keep being brought up, but seriously, Mythbusters in fact did something very similar to this with various alkali metals in an episode. The difference is, they took the 15 minutes required to build a rig to let them drop the alkali metal into the water from a distance, and stood at a distance behind a protective barrier -- as opposed to, I dunno, having someone pitifully lob the sodium into a toilet while standing right next to it, and fail to even get it all in the bowl. They also didn't stand around handling sodium with porous work gloves, flaking it off all over the place.
Science popularization is great. Doing it without even the most basic of safety equipment is not.
posted by tocts at 6:02 PM on November 22, 2016
And again, as has been stated by many in this thread, that has fuck-all to do with what Cody does.
Choosing to use your own body in an experiment intended to measure some aspect of the body is literally nothing at all like undertaking a demonstration where your express intent is to not involve your body, but doing it with such a cavalier attitude towards basic safety that your body only avoided becoming part of the demonstration through sheer luck.
They keep being brought up, but seriously, Mythbusters in fact did something very similar to this with various alkali metals in an episode. The difference is, they took the 15 minutes required to build a rig to let them drop the alkali metal into the water from a distance, and stood at a distance behind a protective barrier -- as opposed to, I dunno, having someone pitifully lob the sodium into a toilet while standing right next to it, and fail to even get it all in the bowl. They also didn't stand around handling sodium with porous work gloves, flaking it off all over the place.
Science popularization is great. Doing it without even the most basic of safety equipment is not.
posted by tocts at 6:02 PM on November 22, 2016
Look, science is bookkeeping.
Science is a method for developing knowledge-based tools (as opposed to engineering which develops physical tools, mathematic which develops symbolic tools, philosophy which develops logic based tools...). If you create some knowledge which extends our abilities, then you have done science. The reason that this is not good science is not because of poor bookkeeping, but because this does not help up make a useful model of the natural world. Interacting with chemicals and releasing energy is no more chemistry and physics than petting your cat is biology and zoopsychology.
I still watch pretty much every video he makes.
posted by 445supermag at 8:20 PM on November 22, 2016
Science is a method for developing knowledge-based tools (as opposed to engineering which develops physical tools, mathematic which develops symbolic tools, philosophy which develops logic based tools...). If you create some knowledge which extends our abilities, then you have done science. The reason that this is not good science is not because of poor bookkeeping, but because this does not help up make a useful model of the natural world. Interacting with chemicals and releasing energy is no more chemistry and physics than petting your cat is biology and zoopsychology.
I still watch pretty much every video he makes.
posted by 445supermag at 8:20 PM on November 22, 2016
Look, the properties of sodium are well established.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:54 PM on November 22, 2016
posted by Chrysostom at 8:54 PM on November 22, 2016
And again, as has been stated by many in this thread, that has fuck-all to do with what Cody does.
No doubt. But it was at least more productive than Feynman lighting his hand on fire.
posted by thelonius at 2:11 PM on November 23, 2016
No doubt. But it was at least more productive than Feynman lighting his hand on fire.
posted by thelonius at 2:11 PM on November 23, 2016
Sure, everything is science and everything is art. These guys are scientist like everyone who lights fireworks is. It really is a Trump world isn't it?
posted by bongo_x at 10:46 AM on November 26, 2016
posted by bongo_x at 10:46 AM on November 26, 2016
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This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
/see dudes handling random sodium chunks with plain old work gloves and no eye or face protection
/shudders and closes link
This is cool and all, but these guys are fucking idiots
posted by Existential Dread at 4:25 PM on November 21, 2016 [20 favorites]