Lincoln's Worst Decision - Turning Down Elephant Herds
January 18, 2017 8:11 AM Subscribe
As a celebration of the election of President Abraham Lincoln* in 1860, King Rama IV of Siam** offered the U.S. "several pairs of young male and female elephants", with the intent that they be allowed to reproduce, eventually becoming large herds such that the people of America could use them as beasts of burden. Sadly (but probably for the best), Lincoln turned down the offer, noting that the climate of the U.S. probably did not lend itself to breeding elephants.
* -- More accurately, "whomsoever the people have elected anew as chief ruler in place of President Buchanan."
** -- a.k.a. King Mongkut, a.k.a. the guy played by Yul Brynner in The King and I.
* -- More accurately, "whomsoever the people have elected anew as chief ruler in place of President Buchanan."
** -- a.k.a. King Mongkut, a.k.a. the guy played by Yul Brynner in The King and I.
Oh give me a home where the elephants roam,
Where the trees and the bush are all splayed,
Where seldom is heard a discouraging word,
O'er the snapping of tree limbs all day.
posted by Capt. Renault at 8:17 AM on January 18, 2017 [35 favorites]
Where the trees and the bush are all splayed,
Where seldom is heard a discouraging word,
O'er the snapping of tree limbs all day.
posted by Capt. Renault at 8:17 AM on January 18, 2017 [35 favorites]
Wait. Waaaaait. So you mean we had the chance for elephants to be a not-super-uncommon thing here in the States? Just a fact of life for the average American? Just think if that had actually happened--a timeline without the scourge of white folks posing with elephants in dating profile pics to show how worldly they are.
posted by phunniemee at 8:19 AM on January 18, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by phunniemee at 8:19 AM on January 18, 2017 [14 favorites]
There was also a brief attempt to use camels in the American Southwest, which would probably have gone pretty well, as the oldest known camel is actually from the North America (albeit 40 to 50 million years ago). This was the US Camel Corps, but, for the most part, soldiers didn't like camels, who can be pretty temperamental. This whole thing was actually the basis for a 1976 movie called Hawmps!, which I recall mostly consisting of camels throwing grizzled US soldiers to the dirt, with the soldiers then crying DANG THESE HAWMPS. (Holy crap, the whole film is on YouTube.)
There are stories that what some of what was left of the camel corps was used to deliver mail in Los Angeles, and some escaped into the hills, where they were seen as late as the 1920s. I guess it's possible. There's a feral group of chickens off the Hollywood Freeway that's been there since the 1970s. Maybe a few are there still, sneaking into backyards on Laurel Canyon on mellow days, getting into the hot tub and sparking a jay while listening to some Joni Mitchell.
posted by maxsparber at 8:22 AM on January 18, 2017 [32 favorites]
There are stories that what some of what was left of the camel corps was used to deliver mail in Los Angeles, and some escaped into the hills, where they were seen as late as the 1920s. I guess it's possible. There's a feral group of chickens off the Hollywood Freeway that's been there since the 1970s. Maybe a few are there still, sneaking into backyards on Laurel Canyon on mellow days, getting into the hot tub and sparking a jay while listening to some Joni Mitchell.
posted by maxsparber at 8:22 AM on January 18, 2017 [32 favorites]
Also Hippo Ranching previously.
posted by Mei's lost sandal at 8:25 AM on January 18, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Mei's lost sandal at 8:25 AM on January 18, 2017 [7 favorites]
Lincoln, America's Worst President
posted by beerperson at 8:32 AM on January 18, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by beerperson at 8:32 AM on January 18, 2017 [12 favorites]
Most of the time hearing about other people's dreams is dumb and boring but my husband has amazing dreams and I will recount one now (copy/pasted from the email he sent me with his permission):
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 8:36 AM on January 18, 2017 [68 favorites]
So, last night I had a dream. In my dream, I was running down the streets of DC, like jogging or something. It was clearly a dream because 1) I was jogging and 2) I was enjoying it.Perhaps it was not a dream but a brief glimpse into the charming alternate reality in which President Lincoln wasn't such a fucking buzzkill?
Anyway, after jogging for a while, I suddenly became aware of the (dream-world) D.C. laws regarding elephants. They were as follows.
1) Elephants have right-of-way over all other traffic, right-of-way priority between two elephants is given to the older or larger elephant.
2) The city council puts aside ten dollars per elephant per day to pay for a "sweet or savory chutney for any elephants who would enjoy one."
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 8:36 AM on January 18, 2017 [68 favorites]
As someone who once hit a moose while driving a pickup truck, I'm kind of glad there are no elephant crossings on American highways.
I bet if someone offered Trump a herd of elephants he'd totally take them.
posted by bondcliff at 8:36 AM on January 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
I bet if someone offered Trump a herd of elephants he'd totally take them.
posted by bondcliff at 8:36 AM on January 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
for the most part, soldiers didn't like camels, who can be pretty temperamental.
I daresay the feeling was mutual.
posted by Celsius1414 at 8:43 AM on January 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
I daresay the feeling was mutual.
posted by Celsius1414 at 8:43 AM on January 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
There's also actually a branch of native elephant species called gomphotheres that lived in the Americas and were still around at the same time Çatal Hüyük and Göbekli Tepe were occupied by humans in Turkey. We need to Jurassic Park that shit.
posted by XMLicious at 8:44 AM on January 18, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by XMLicious at 8:44 AM on January 18, 2017 [7 favorites]
There was also a brief attempt to use camels in the American Southwest
This whole thing was actually the basis for a 1976 movie called Hawmps
Also that one episode of Maverick.
Bret accepts "a fine Arabian mount" as stakes in a poker game, thinking it's an Arabian horse. But when he wins, he finds out it's one of the camels left over from this program. It's played for laughs, but she saves his life in the end.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 8:46 AM on January 18, 2017 [5 favorites]
This whole thing was actually the basis for a 1976 movie called Hawmps
Also that one episode of Maverick.
Bret accepts "a fine Arabian mount" as stakes in a poker game, thinking it's an Arabian horse. But when he wins, he finds out it's one of the camels left over from this program. It's played for laughs, but she saves his life in the end.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 8:46 AM on January 18, 2017 [5 favorites]
As someone who once hit a moose while driving a pickup truck, I'm kind of glad there are no elephant crossings on American highways.
OTOH, the cow chip tossing competitions would be able to add an ultra-heavyweight division.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:51 AM on January 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
OTOH, the cow chip tossing competitions would be able to add an ultra-heavyweight division.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:51 AM on January 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
I bet if someone offered Trump a herd of elephants he'd totally take them.
This is disgusting, just horrible, this fake news, your CNN, Buzzfeed, saying Donald Trump has never heard of elephants. Of course I've heard of elephants. I know tremendous elephants, the best elephants and, you know what? Let me tell you. I'm gonna make such a tremendous deal, such a wonderful deal, you're going to be thanking me for these elephants.
posted by uncleozzy at 8:52 AM on January 18, 2017 [8 favorites]
This is disgusting, just horrible, this fake news, your CNN, Buzzfeed, saying Donald Trump has never heard of elephants. Of course I've heard of elephants. I know tremendous elephants, the best elephants and, you know what? Let me tell you. I'm gonna make such a tremendous deal, such a wonderful deal, you're going to be thanking me for these elephants.
posted by uncleozzy at 8:52 AM on January 18, 2017 [8 favorites]
Just think if that had actually happened--a timeline without the scourge of white folks posing with elephants in dating profile pics to show how worldly they are.
But yet you'd still see them on Farmers Only because there would probably be ivory farms because America is probably horrible in every time line.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 8:53 AM on January 18, 2017 [11 favorites]
But yet you'd still see them on Farmers Only because there would probably be ivory farms because America is probably horrible in every time line.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 8:53 AM on January 18, 2017 [11 favorites]
Also that one episode of Maverick.
If, like me, you want to be secure in the knowledge that you will never miss this episode (S1E7, "Relic of Fort Tejon") airing on television, you can sign up for a telephone alert here.
posted by Etrigan at 8:55 AM on January 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
If, like me, you want to be secure in the knowledge that you will never miss this episode (S1E7, "Relic of Fort Tejon") airing on television, you can sign up for a telephone alert here.
posted by Etrigan at 8:55 AM on January 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
I bet if someone offered Trump a herd of elephants he'd totally take them.
That couldn't possibly be true because a herd of elephants would be awesome and that man doesn't do good things.
posted by mcduff at 9:00 AM on January 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
That couldn't possibly be true because a herd of elephants would be awesome and that man doesn't do good things.
posted by mcduff at 9:00 AM on January 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
I've heard the Thai version of this history, which is that King Mongkut, having abolished slavery in Thailand, offered a battalion of elephants to Lincoln to assist the Union Army. Unfortunately Wikipedia says no.
posted by lagomorphius at 9:01 AM on January 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by lagomorphius at 9:01 AM on January 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
I can't help thinking elephants would end up as just one more thing to hunt and shoot.
posted by Prince Lazy I at 9:07 AM on January 18, 2017
posted by Prince Lazy I at 9:07 AM on January 18, 2017
That couldn't possibly be true because a herd of elephants would be awesome and that man doesn't do good things.
It would literally be the climax to the film Elephant Walk.
posted by maxsparber at 9:09 AM on January 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
It would literally be the climax to the film Elephant Walk.
posted by maxsparber at 9:09 AM on January 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
I bet if someone offered Trump a herd of elephants he'd totally take them.
That couldn't possibly be true because a herd of elephants would be awesome and that man doesn't do good things.
You kidding? He'd jump all over it for the hide business alone. Probably would start a line of elephant steaks. In other words, he'd be on board in the most horrifying way possible.
posted by middleclasstool at 9:14 AM on January 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
That couldn't possibly be true because a herd of elephants would be awesome and that man doesn't do good things.
You kidding? He'd jump all over it for the hide business alone. Probably would start a line of elephant steaks. In other words, he'd be on board in the most horrifying way possible.
posted by middleclasstool at 9:14 AM on January 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
“So you say you're from Elephant Flats, too?”
“Born and raised. Wait, are you from Elephant Flats, Nevada, or Elephant Flats, Texas?”
“Elephant Flats, Arizona. I didn't know there was an Elephant Flats, Texas!”
“Well, it's a whole lot smaller than Elephant Flats, Nevada or Elephant Flats, Arizona. Flatter, too.”
“Ain't that something! You know, my first wife's folks were from Elephant Flats, New Mexico. Her granddaddy had a little ranch, ‘bout fifty head of pachyderm, when the Depression come along and the market went flatter’n an elephant paddock. Had to sell out for peanuts.”
“Barkeep, two more Long Tusk drafts over here. Sooo… she married again?”
posted by The Underpants Monster at 9:21 AM on January 18, 2017 [28 favorites]
“Born and raised. Wait, are you from Elephant Flats, Nevada, or Elephant Flats, Texas?”
“Elephant Flats, Arizona. I didn't know there was an Elephant Flats, Texas!”
“Well, it's a whole lot smaller than Elephant Flats, Nevada or Elephant Flats, Arizona. Flatter, too.”
“Ain't that something! You know, my first wife's folks were from Elephant Flats, New Mexico. Her granddaddy had a little ranch, ‘bout fifty head of pachyderm, when the Depression come along and the market went flatter’n an elephant paddock. Had to sell out for peanuts.”
“Barkeep, two more Long Tusk drafts over here. Sooo… she married again?”
posted by The Underpants Monster at 9:21 AM on January 18, 2017 [28 favorites]
I have enough problems with deer and raccoons. I'm very glad I don't have to worry about elephants roaming through my neighborhood at night, turning over trashcans.
posted by It's Never Lurgi at 9:21 AM on January 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by It's Never Lurgi at 9:21 AM on January 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
I always assumed that the scene in The King and I in which the king writes a letter to President Lincoln offering pairs of male elephants to populate the American forests was based on historical fact, and I guess it is, but the real king said "male and female." I wonder what that change was about? I wonder whether that scene appears in the original book?
posted by zorseshoes at 9:24 AM on January 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by zorseshoes at 9:24 AM on January 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
Elephants, as an invasive species. That's where my mind went, and boggled.
posted by elizilla at 9:25 AM on January 18, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by elizilla at 9:25 AM on January 18, 2017 [5 favorites]
I first learned about the Camel Corps at Girl Scout camp, where we sang the folk song "Hi Jolly" (the phonetic nickname for Hadji Ali, one of the first camel drivers the army hired). It was only when I just now looked up a link for the song that I discovered the original writer of the song later emended two of the lyrics for historical accuracy, so the words I learned are now incorrect. The More You Know!
I would hope there would have been just as jaunty a tune about elephants.
posted by theatro at 9:27 AM on January 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
I would hope there would have been just as jaunty a tune about elephants.
posted by theatro at 9:27 AM on January 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
Imagine them flocking and swarming like starlings.
posted by Dip Flash at 9:28 AM on January 18, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Dip Flash at 9:28 AM on January 18, 2017 [5 favorites]
Also that one episode of Maverick.Better yet*, the episode of Gunsmoke with a were-elephant.
*For some values of better
posted by Tabitha Someday at 9:30 AM on January 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
To think this could have lead to the epic YouTube series Guy on an Elephant.
posted by bondcliff at 9:32 AM on January 18, 2017
posted by bondcliff at 9:32 AM on January 18, 2017
Just about to settle in to read this goofy lark of a thread which I'm sure doesn't mention Donald Trump, which will be a relief. But first a big sip of coffee
posted by beerperson at 9:43 AM on January 18, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by beerperson at 9:43 AM on January 18, 2017 [12 favorites]
Elephants could be used in municipal maintenance of sensitive habitats and provide jobs,
posted by hortense at 9:45 AM on January 18, 2017
posted by hortense at 9:45 AM on January 18, 2017
IDK, I think that ordering the largest mass execution in US history is probably way worse than refusing the gift of elephants....
posted by gminks at 9:50 AM on January 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by gminks at 9:50 AM on January 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
Imagine them flocking and swarming like starlings.
And then they'd start nesting in my bathroom ventilation duct.
posted by maurice at 9:50 AM on January 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
And then they'd start nesting in my bathroom ventilation duct.
posted by maurice at 9:50 AM on January 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
IDK, I think that ordering the largest mass execution in US history is probably way worse than refusing the gift of elephants....
It's also possible that I was kidding about that, but thanks for at least waiting until the 32nd comment. I figured it would be around 7.
posted by Etrigan at 9:55 AM on January 18, 2017 [7 favorites]
It's also possible that I was kidding about that, but thanks for at least waiting until the 32nd comment. I figured it would be around 7.
posted by Etrigan at 9:55 AM on January 18, 2017 [7 favorites]
Elephants, as an invasive species. That's where my mind went, and boggled.
posted by Artful Codger at 9:56 AM on January 18, 2017 [9 favorites]
... cautiously, the elephants await their chance from behind a[this isn't working. Could we just stick with rats, like we asked? -Ed]cratehutwarehouse by a wharf in this quiet African seaport. At a sign from the leader, they quickly scurry towards the tramp steamer and upa mooring linethe gangwaya serendipitously-placed truck ramp. They secret themselves behind the cargo. With their toenails painted like brass hull fittings, they evade the notice of all who visit the hold...
posted by Artful Codger at 9:56 AM on January 18, 2017 [9 favorites]
Maybe this is what the civil war was about? The deep south was relying on those elephants to help improve the efficiency of plantation agriculture.
I mean obviously it wasn't about slavery, but if not that, then what?
Also, Metafilter: a brief glimpse into the charming alternate reality in which President Lincoln wasn't such a fucking buzzkill?
posted by Naberius at 10:14 AM on January 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
I mean obviously it wasn't about slavery, but if not that, then what?
Also, Metafilter: a brief glimpse into the charming alternate reality in which President Lincoln wasn't such a fucking buzzkill?
posted by Naberius at 10:14 AM on January 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
Instead of Shoot, Shovel, and Shut up for wolves, there'd be Blast, Backhoe, and Bugger off?
posted by BeeDo at 10:30 AM on January 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by BeeDo at 10:30 AM on January 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
"What the fuck is wrong with you, you never head of an elephant farm? You shoot elephants."
posted by fixedgear at 10:35 AM on January 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by fixedgear at 10:35 AM on January 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
...You shoot elephants."
With a blue elephant gun?
posted by Capt. Renault at 10:42 AM on January 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
With a blue elephant gun?
posted by Capt. Renault at 10:42 AM on January 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
Has anyone worked out what kind of elephant population you'd have if you started with several pairs of elephants in 1860? Are we talking thousands of elephants or millions?
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 10:44 AM on January 18, 2017
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 10:44 AM on January 18, 2017
Has anyone worked out what kind of elephant population you'd have if you started with several pairs of elephants in 1860? Are we talking thousands of elephants or millions?
Well, assuming a perfectly spherical elephant....
posted by Quindar Beep at 10:46 AM on January 18, 2017 [13 favorites]
Well, assuming a perfectly spherical elephant....
posted by Quindar Beep at 10:46 AM on January 18, 2017 [13 favorites]
In this alternate reality, Groucho Marx would be painfully aware of how the elephant got in his pajamas.
posted by Quindar Beep at 10:47 AM on January 18, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by Quindar Beep at 10:47 AM on January 18, 2017 [8 favorites]
Metafilter's own! *waves* I had a lot of fun with this one.
posted by mynameisluka at 10:49 AM on January 18, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by mynameisluka at 10:49 AM on January 18, 2017 [10 favorites]
Nice.
posted by maxsparber at 10:50 AM on January 18, 2017
posted by maxsparber at 10:50 AM on January 18, 2017
When you talk about large executions, you don't get much larger than the execution of Murderous Mary or Topsy.
Maybe it's just as well we don't have elephants.
posted by SPrintF at 10:54 AM on January 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
Maybe it's just as well we don't have elephants.
posted by SPrintF at 10:54 AM on January 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
So, the question hasn't been answered here and I can't look it up now:
Is there an environment in the US that's suitable for elephant breeding without having to move the elephants to a different part of the US when the weather changes?
posted by I-baLL at 10:59 AM on January 18, 2017
Is there an environment in the US that's suitable for elephant breeding without having to move the elephants to a different part of the US when the weather changes?
posted by I-baLL at 10:59 AM on January 18, 2017
Yeah, herds of Elephants in a country that did this. Great idea!
posted by blue_beetle at 11:03 AM on January 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by blue_beetle at 11:03 AM on January 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
Has anyone worked out what kind of elephant population you'd have if you started with several pairs of elephants in 1860?
Very quick back of the napkin elephant math based on 4 minutes of googling:
Elephants can have up to 6 calves, one every five years (two years of pregnancy, and 3 raising the calve). If you figure half of them are female (no clue if that's accurate), that's 3 new birthing females per generation of 50 years. If we take 3 generations (150 years), we're at like 27 breeding pairs in the last generation. So I think about 60 elephants? I may be completely wrong on this.
Reproduction is of course exponential, so increasing the starting herd drastically increases their population levels. If we started with say 6 breeding pairs, I think the math would work out to be about 300 elephants today.
On preview blue_beetle beat me to the punch, and the real answer being "a couple" as we would have hunted them to death like the buffalo.
posted by mayonnaises at 11:12 AM on January 18, 2017
Very quick back of the napkin elephant math based on 4 minutes of googling:
Elephants can have up to 6 calves, one every five years (two years of pregnancy, and 3 raising the calve). If you figure half of them are female (no clue if that's accurate), that's 3 new birthing females per generation of 50 years. If we take 3 generations (150 years), we're at like 27 breeding pairs in the last generation. So I think about 60 elephants? I may be completely wrong on this.
Reproduction is of course exponential, so increasing the starting herd drastically increases their population levels. If we started with say 6 breeding pairs, I think the math would work out to be about 300 elephants today.
On preview blue_beetle beat me to the punch, and the real answer being "a couple" as we would have hunted them to death like the buffalo.
posted by mayonnaises at 11:12 AM on January 18, 2017
In other words, he'd be on board in the most horrifying way possible.
Ivanka would have a line of ivory-heeled shoes.
posted by bonehead at 11:25 AM on January 18, 2017
Ivanka would have a line of ivory-heeled shoes.
posted by bonehead at 11:25 AM on January 18, 2017
1) Elephants have right-of-way over all other traffic, right-of-way priority between two elephants is given to the older or larger elephant.
This is something that needs to be spelled out? Around here, I'm a big believer that ELK have the right-of-way. Bigger than that means I might just stay home during the migrations.
“So you say you're from Elephant Flats, too?”
"Well, we tried calling it Elephantown, and then worked on Elephant Falls. But you know, after a while it was either Elephant Flats or Shitsville."
posted by BlueHorse at 11:27 AM on January 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
This is something that needs to be spelled out? Around here, I'm a big believer that ELK have the right-of-way. Bigger than that means I might just stay home during the migrations.
“So you say you're from Elephant Flats, too?”
"Well, we tried calling it Elephantown, and then worked on Elephant Falls. But you know, after a while it was either Elephant Flats or Shitsville."
posted by BlueHorse at 11:27 AM on January 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
The extended story of the Camel Corps, previously, as well as the foolish decision to introduce Argentinian nutria in Louisana. This all is nothing on the efforts of Acclimatization Societies around the world.
posted by filthy light thief at 12:09 PM on January 18, 2017
posted by filthy light thief at 12:09 PM on January 18, 2017
So, the question hasn't been answered here and I can't look it up now:
Is there an environment in the US that's suitable for elephant breeding without having to move the elephants to a different part of the US when the weather changes?
posted by I-baLL at 10:59 AM on January 18 [+] [!]
I dunno about breeding but there is an elephant sanctuary in Tennessee.
posted by twilightlost at 12:30 PM on January 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
Is there an environment in the US that's suitable for elephant breeding without having to move the elephants to a different part of the US when the weather changes?
posted by I-baLL at 10:59 AM on January 18 [+] [!]
I dunno about breeding but there is an elephant sanctuary in Tennessee.
posted by twilightlost at 12:30 PM on January 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
Is there an environment in the US that's suitable for elephant breeding without having to move the elephants to a different part of the US when the weather changes?
I'm assuming California would work. When our zoo decided not to keep elephants anymore they sent them to an elephant sanctuary in California.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 12:30 PM on January 18, 2017
I'm assuming California would work. When our zoo decided not to keep elephants anymore they sent them to an elephant sanctuary in California.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 12:30 PM on January 18, 2017
I don't know if breeding is such a big problem. African Lion Safari here in Ontario is on its 3rd generation of elephants born in captivity. I'm pretty sure they spend most of the winter indoors though.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 12:34 PM on January 18, 2017
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 12:34 PM on January 18, 2017
Zoologists with peeling noses follow their migration routes down the Grand Staircase as the season changes. Gathering to drink on the shores of Lake Mead. Trunk-to-tail in silhouette as the sun sets over Monument Valley. A stray herd stops traffic to cross the Las Vegas strip; cell phones held out of car windows capture the tinny bleat of stuck traffic.
brb, modding Fallout: New Vegas
posted by Zeinab Badawi's Twenty Hotels at 1:37 PM on January 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
brb, modding Fallout: New Vegas
posted by Zeinab Badawi's Twenty Hotels at 1:37 PM on January 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'm assuming California would work. When our zoo decided not to keep elephants anymore they sent them to an elephant sanctuary in California.
AKA my apartment.
posted by Celsius1414 at 2:05 PM on January 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
AKA my apartment.
posted by Celsius1414 at 2:05 PM on January 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
Just think if that had actually happened--a timeline without the scourge of white folks posing with elephants in dating profile pics shooting elephants from the windows of a moving train
posted by CynicalKnight at 4:59 PM on January 18, 2017
posted by CynicalKnight at 4:59 PM on January 18, 2017
I can't wait for Daniel Day Lewis to reprise his award-winning role and give some passionate speech including the line "it will be far too cold in the western territories for these animals!"
posted by Metro Gnome at 5:20 PM on January 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Metro Gnome at 5:20 PM on January 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
Has this been linked yet? There's a perennial proposal to introduce elephants to the American prairies and plains to make up for extinct megafauna like mammoths.
I am in favor of this just because I'd love to see herds of elephants wandering the prairies. I'm told it's less-cool, though, once they learn they can hold up trucks on the highway and ransack them for fruit, because drivers won't run them over and lots of trucks carry elephant-friendly deliciousness.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 6:22 PM on January 18, 2017
I am in favor of this just because I'd love to see herds of elephants wandering the prairies. I'm told it's less-cool, though, once they learn they can hold up trucks on the highway and ransack them for fruit, because drivers won't run them over and lots of trucks carry elephant-friendly deliciousness.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 6:22 PM on January 18, 2017
Eyebrows McGee got there just before me. I was surprised, after a very cursory scan and a few hasty cmd+f's, to see no mention of the Pleistocene rewilding (as it has come to be known).
posted by deadbilly at 6:57 PM on January 18, 2017
posted by deadbilly at 6:57 PM on January 18, 2017
At the World Fantasy Convention in 2004, a bunch of us were talking about Ridiculous Historical Ideas, and someone pitched the idea of an anthology called The Elephants of Gettysberg. While I think a lot of people wrote stories for it, the book never got off the ground. My story is buried somewhere in my hard drive. I still think it would have been a cool anthology.
posted by RakDaddy at 7:06 PM on January 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by RakDaddy at 7:06 PM on January 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
I've been imagining an alternate history all day where Lincoln lost the election, President Douglas said "Fuck it, sure, send 'em", and elephant cavalry played a decisive role in the Civil War that started in 1868.
posted by Etrigan at 7:37 PM on January 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Etrigan at 7:37 PM on January 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
When you talk about large executions, you don't get much larger than the execution of Murderous Mary or Topsy.
They'll say awwww Topsy at my auuuuutopsy!
posted by elsietheeel at 8:22 PM on January 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
They'll say awwww Topsy at my auuuuutopsy!
posted by elsietheeel at 8:22 PM on January 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
Elephant breeding center is in FL. They are doing Indian elephants, the circus has not used wild caught elephants in several generations, AFAIK.
www.ringlingelephantcenter.com
Remember when the circus quit using elephants? They are all now down South, with lots of time on their hands... And food. Expect the invasives in the 'glades to be a little larger than pythons and nutria in the near future.
posted by bert2368 at 6:10 AM on January 19, 2017
www.ringlingelephantcenter.com
Remember when the circus quit using elephants? They are all now down South, with lots of time on their hands... And food. Expect the invasives in the 'glades to be a little larger than pythons and nutria in the near future.
posted by bert2368 at 6:10 AM on January 19, 2017
I suspect that elephants would breed fine anywhere in the US where there's no significant winters, and even then, they'd probably adapt pretty quickly. Being that big, they're a lot more adaptable to different climates and different habitats than most creatures. And they were on the southern and western shores of the Mediterranean well after the Roman Empire was in existence.
posted by ambrosen at 9:22 AM on January 19, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by ambrosen at 9:22 AM on January 19, 2017 [1 favorite]
They've adapted to forests and deserts, and they deal pretty well when their habitat goes all swampy during monsoons, so just about anywhere in the southern arc would be possible. Probably not our harshest deserts, because they wouldn't have the room to roam to make it workable, but I'm imagining the swamp elephants of Louisiana now...
posted by tavella at 11:49 AM on January 19, 2017
posted by tavella at 11:49 AM on January 19, 2017
I've been imagining an alternate history all day where Lincoln lost the election, President Douglas said "Fuck it, sure, send 'em", and elephant cavalry played a decisive role in the Civil War that started in 1868.
OMG. I thought the comedy sketch writer inside me was long dead, but I so totally need President Stephen Douglas as a recurring character. The sketch would always start with some big preamble, lots of rational discussion on both sides, maybe some impassioned speeches, with President Douglas seeming to deeply ponder each word from his statesmanlike pose in front of a fireplace or French doors or something like that. Then, there's always a big pause before he says, "Fuck it, sure, let's do it."
(Maybe then we fade to Douglas in the bathtub, talking smack to Daguerreotypes of other mid-nineteenth-century figures.)
posted by The Underpants Monster at 12:31 PM on January 19, 2017 [1 favorite]
OMG. I thought the comedy sketch writer inside me was long dead, but I so totally need President Stephen Douglas as a recurring character. The sketch would always start with some big preamble, lots of rational discussion on both sides, maybe some impassioned speeches, with President Douglas seeming to deeply ponder each word from his statesmanlike pose in front of a fireplace or French doors or something like that. Then, there's always a big pause before he says, "Fuck it, sure, let's do it."
(Maybe then we fade to Douglas in the bathtub, talking smack to Daguerreotypes of other mid-nineteenth-century figures.)
posted by The Underpants Monster at 12:31 PM on January 19, 2017 [1 favorite]
So it turns out that elephants can't cope brilliantly with cold, but they're being yarnbombed in India, so it works out OK in the end.
posted by ambrosen at 3:50 PM on January 19, 2017
posted by ambrosen at 3:50 PM on January 19, 2017
the climate of the U.S. probably did not lend itself to breeding elephants.
Just wait a couple more years.
posted by sneebler at 4:02 PM on January 19, 2017
Just wait a couple more years.
posted by sneebler at 4:02 PM on January 19, 2017
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posted by Damienmce at 8:15 AM on January 18, 2017 [27 favorites]