The Titanic going down packed with adorable pups
February 1, 2017 12:38 PM Subscribe
How much for your mom? Cartoonist Mrs. Sasquatch illustrates a story they were told about the kinds of ethical dilemmas potential White House staffers are asked to solve.
So trolley problem memes were just a way of prepping more Americans for future government jobs?
posted by GuyZero at 12:45 PM on February 1, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by GuyZero at 12:45 PM on February 1, 2017 [9 favorites]
Yeah, I'd never be cut out for politics. I'm okay with that.
posted by dinty_moore at 12:50 PM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by dinty_moore at 12:50 PM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
Apparently I'm only qualified to work at the White House if I were in the Puppy Preservation Department. And you know, I'm okay with that.
posted by Elly Vortex at 12:55 PM on February 1, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Elly Vortex at 12:55 PM on February 1, 2017 [4 favorites]
My immediate reaction was to ask why the puppy was going into the microwave in the first place? Seems like that would have some significance, and I don't understand why the interview question was devoid of context and why people didn't bother to find out (at least, within the context of that story).
posted by Greg_Ace at 12:58 PM on February 1, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by Greg_Ace at 12:58 PM on February 1, 2017 [12 favorites]
I thought the question seemed horrific at first, but introducing the comparative stuff--suddenly it all makes sense. I wish they'd put presidential candidates through this, actually. On live TV. Where are your pain points? Do you know they're your pain points? Are you capable of recognizing the point at which your personal pain is not worth more than the public good? They did introduce the context--they just didn't introduce it immediately.
Even if I had a hypothetical mother I was close to, the number of people's personal pets that I'd trade for my mother's life would be... smaller than I thought, once I got to thinking about it. I mean, more than ten. But it would not take an ocean liner full, not if they were actually people's pets. 100 families losing their puppy to save my mom, maybe. 250, probably not. Or if the animals were actually going to suffer, because humans are capable of contextualizing suffering (i.e., I'm dying to save all these puppies) and dogs are not capable of similarly recognizing that there's meaning there.
But it makes a lot of sense, here. If you'd choose an ocean liner of puppies over something bad happening to your mother, that's problematic. If you're hostile to the idea of examining why that is and what other things you value could compromise your judgment, then seems like you're a bad fit.
posted by Sequence at 1:03 PM on February 1, 2017 [10 favorites]
Even if I had a hypothetical mother I was close to, the number of people's personal pets that I'd trade for my mother's life would be... smaller than I thought, once I got to thinking about it. I mean, more than ten. But it would not take an ocean liner full, not if they were actually people's pets. 100 families losing their puppy to save my mom, maybe. 250, probably not. Or if the animals were actually going to suffer, because humans are capable of contextualizing suffering (i.e., I'm dying to save all these puppies) and dogs are not capable of similarly recognizing that there's meaning there.
But it makes a lot of sense, here. If you'd choose an ocean liner of puppies over something bad happening to your mother, that's problematic. If you're hostile to the idea of examining why that is and what other things you value could compromise your judgment, then seems like you're a bad fit.
posted by Sequence at 1:03 PM on February 1, 2017 [10 favorites]
Only problem I have with that comic is the dismissal of the Sierra Club. I am guessing their employees face this problem all the time too. Do they put their resources to protecting some fish in a desert, knowing this means more whales will be eaten, or do they protect deforestation knowing that spotted owl protection will mean the loss of jobs.
This does seem to split along parties fairly well. All the time you hear the GOP take a stance that doesn't make sense, but then they defend it with "people's lives and livelihoods." So they put people over the environment. And you hear Democrats say, "The last tree frog lives in that state! Everyone needs to move out!"
But as far as the question goes, I'd need to know how what kind of puppy we're talking about. Because I hate those little yappy dogs. I'd pay to nuke those things.
posted by cjorgensen at 1:07 PM on February 1, 2017 [5 favorites]
This does seem to split along parties fairly well. All the time you hear the GOP take a stance that doesn't make sense, but then they defend it with "people's lives and livelihoods." So they put people over the environment. And you hear Democrats say, "The last tree frog lives in that state! Everyone needs to move out!"
But as far as the question goes, I'd need to know how what kind of puppy we're talking about. Because I hate those little yappy dogs. I'd pay to nuke those things.
posted by cjorgensen at 1:07 PM on February 1, 2017 [5 favorites]
Maybe I'm just dense, but I'm having a hard time following this comic:
1. When they first show the interviewers it's a man and a woman in red. But then the woman in red is also the first person to answer the puppy question (she's the one who says she wouldn't). But then the she's asking the follow-up "Okay, what would we have to take away" question. Or is it two different women in red that look very similar?
2. Does "Okay, what would we have to take away?" mean what would they have to threaten to take away to get you to microwave a puppy, and then they offer various competing threat scenarios?
posted by Sangermaine at 1:07 PM on February 1, 2017
1. When they first show the interviewers it's a man and a woman in red. But then the woman in red is also the first person to answer the puppy question (she's the one who says she wouldn't). But then the she's asking the follow-up "Okay, what would we have to take away" question. Or is it two different women in red that look very similar?
2. Does "Okay, what would we have to take away?" mean what would they have to threaten to take away to get you to microwave a puppy, and then they offer various competing threat scenarios?
posted by Sangermaine at 1:07 PM on February 1, 2017
The more salient question here is whether members of Trump's actual staff would ever be expected to make a moral calculus based on anything more complex than "whatever the Boss says".
posted by darkstar at 1:09 PM on February 1, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by darkstar at 1:09 PM on February 1, 2017 [7 favorites]
It ends up being a scales thing. Like how many puppies on one side of the scale does it take to equal your mother's life? Because once you have that figured out, you can start judging other things like food stamps. They are going to mean some people don't get to have a puppy because others need to eat, so how much are you willing to deprive people of in order for everyone to do a bit better? Or worse, how many people are you willing to kill for a greater good?
posted by cjorgensen at 1:11 PM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by cjorgensen at 1:11 PM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
Adoption costs are about $30, so $31.
Call me, Donald.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 1:11 PM on February 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
Call me, Donald.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 1:11 PM on February 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
$0, but only if I get to kill the puppy first, and eat it after.
Otherwise it's cruel and wasteful.
posted by ryanrs at 1:15 PM on February 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
Otherwise it's cruel and wasteful.
posted by ryanrs at 1:15 PM on February 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
On second thought, that's only if you let me braise or roast the puppy. $50 if it has to be microwaved.
posted by ryanrs at 1:16 PM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by ryanrs at 1:16 PM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
Sangermaine:
1) The interviewer in red and the student in red are two different people drawn with similar looks/palettes. Perhaps the artist/author wanted to show that the two of them are more similar than different, despite their apparent initial philosophical differences.
2) Yes.
posted by erikred at 1:18 PM on February 1, 2017
1) The interviewer in red and the student in red are two different people drawn with similar looks/palettes. Perhaps the artist/author wanted to show that the two of them are more similar than different, despite their apparent initial philosophical differences.
2) Yes.
posted by erikred at 1:18 PM on February 1, 2017
Even if I had a hypothetical mother I was close to
We've done a lot of implicit bias training at work but it's amazing how one (I) can be blind to these things.
Of course the question of puppies vs mom selects for people who have good relationships with their mother or people who have contact with their mother at all.
What would a child who grew up in foster care say? They'd seem like a sociopath. What about a LGBT candidate who was spurned by a conservative religious mother?
Anyway, this is a bad interview question and wouldn't be allowed where I work. Focus on candidate's past performance in concrete situations:
"Tell me about a time when you were forced to choose between microwaving a small, cute animal or having an untouchable third-party kill a person you're very fond of. Please be specific."
posted by GuyZero at 1:26 PM on February 1, 2017 [26 favorites]
We've done a lot of implicit bias training at work but it's amazing how one (I) can be blind to these things.
Of course the question of puppies vs mom selects for people who have good relationships with their mother or people who have contact with their mother at all.
What would a child who grew up in foster care say? They'd seem like a sociopath. What about a LGBT candidate who was spurned by a conservative religious mother?
Anyway, this is a bad interview question and wouldn't be allowed where I work. Focus on candidate's past performance in concrete situations:
"Tell me about a time when you were forced to choose between microwaving a small, cute animal or having an untouchable third-party kill a person you're very fond of. Please be specific."
posted by GuyZero at 1:26 PM on February 1, 2017 [26 favorites]
Honestly, picking the numbers is really really easy. But if I ever actually had to put a real dog in a real microwave and really turn it on, I would nope out no matter what my promised numbers were.
Also I suspect if you asked Ted Cruz the puppy question he would say, "Free, no problem. How fast do you want it? Because normally if I go in at too high a setting, they catch fire."
posted by erinfern at 1:27 PM on February 1, 2017 [14 favorites]
Also I suspect if you asked Ted Cruz the puppy question he would say, "Free, no problem. How fast do you want it? Because normally if I go in at too high a setting, they catch fire."
posted by erinfern at 1:27 PM on February 1, 2017 [14 favorites]
I can't tell how literal this is, if at all, but it can't be an accident that the hiring process selects for sadists, or at least people who get really into unnecessarily sadistic logic problems. because the answer I'd give to when I'd put a dog in the microwave is very different to when I'd personally euthanize one.
it's supposed to shock you out of realizing it because it's puppies and not people, but it's just another version of when is torture ok. and even if you have to weigh lives against other lives and set cold numerical standards for how much they're worth, you can do that while saying never to certain atrocities. don't know if the hiring process is supposed to get somebody around the table to realize that and say so, or whether it's supposed to weed out people who think torture is never required by the exigencies of government.
posted by queenofbithynia at 1:27 PM on February 1, 2017 [10 favorites]
it's supposed to shock you out of realizing it because it's puppies and not people, but it's just another version of when is torture ok. and even if you have to weigh lives against other lives and set cold numerical standards for how much they're worth, you can do that while saying never to certain atrocities. don't know if the hiring process is supposed to get somebody around the table to realize that and say so, or whether it's supposed to weed out people who think torture is never required by the exigencies of government.
posted by queenofbithynia at 1:27 PM on February 1, 2017 [10 favorites]
It ends up being a scales thing.
The notion of having to choose between one's mom and the extinction of all dogs is farcical on it's face. You can't take the answer to that question, divide by the number of dogs and then multiple my the number of moms to then say hey, let's kill these many people based on that answer.
posted by GuyZero at 1:28 PM on February 1, 2017
The notion of having to choose between one's mom and the extinction of all dogs is farcical on it's face. You can't take the answer to that question, divide by the number of dogs and then multiple my the number of moms to then say hey, let's kill these many people based on that answer.
posted by GuyZero at 1:28 PM on February 1, 2017
I imagine that many people's reaction to this would to be not to answer honestly. So the real question is this: what answer to this question does the interviewee think will give them the best shot at the job? And what does that answer say about their understanding of the job?
posted by Paragon at 1:32 PM on February 1, 2017
posted by Paragon at 1:32 PM on February 1, 2017
They're not really looking for your answer, per se. They're looking for your reaction. They're looking for your justification and thought process.
How, exactly do you go from "I'd never do it," to "well maybe for a ridiculous amount," and what ticks inside that head of yours.
They don't want psychopaths, but they also don't want moralistic Pollyannas who don't understand that compromises have to be made everywhere.
posted by explosion at 1:37 PM on February 1, 2017 [8 favorites]
How, exactly do you go from "I'd never do it," to "well maybe for a ridiculous amount," and what ticks inside that head of yours.
They don't want psychopaths, but they also don't want moralistic Pollyannas who don't understand that compromises have to be made everywhere.
posted by explosion at 1:37 PM on February 1, 2017 [8 favorites]
I'm sure people keep asking these questions, but I'm not persuaded they have much value. At the end of the day, the moral onus is on the hypothetical villain here to not put puppies in microwaves. Acting like this poor interviewee is somehow the one responsible for the fate of this dog is a pretty shitty passing of the buck since the capricious entity that cooks dogs for fun clearly holds all the cards in this scenario. And it's the responsibility of a society to bring dog-cooking villains to justice.
Somehow, I don't think, "If you asked me to choose between putting my mom in a microwave, vs. a dog, I would put you in the microwave" is an answer that's going to land anyone the job.
posted by belarius at 1:37 PM on February 1, 2017 [5 favorites]
Somehow, I don't think, "If you asked me to choose between putting my mom in a microwave, vs. a dog, I would put you in the microwave" is an answer that's going to land anyone the job.
posted by belarius at 1:37 PM on February 1, 2017 [5 favorites]
Hey, remember all the stories about Google's unusual interview questions? Well Google stopped doing those because they discovered those questions had zero predictive value on who would be a good employee.
I'd expect the same is true of this question, but the whitehouse people lack the sample size and data analysis to realize they're being dumb. I'm sure it sounded clever when they thought it up, though.
posted by ryanrs at 1:40 PM on February 1, 2017 [10 favorites]
I'd expect the same is true of this question, but the whitehouse people lack the sample size and data analysis to realize they're being dumb. I'm sure it sounded clever when they thought it up, though.
posted by ryanrs at 1:40 PM on February 1, 2017 [10 favorites]
I need to know if the puppy is threatening the President. If if my mom is threatening the President.
Also, is our puppies burning?
posted by lagomorphius at 1:41 PM on February 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
Also, is our puppies burning?
posted by lagomorphius at 1:41 PM on February 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
Yeah, I'll microwave a puppy in exchange for the guy at the other end of the office not eating his daily chicken sandwich for a week. I'm sure it evens out.
posted by 256 at 1:45 PM on February 1, 2017
posted by 256 at 1:45 PM on February 1, 2017
ARE YOU A BAD ENOUGH DUDE TO MICROWAVE A PUPPY AND ALSO MAYBE YOUR MOM TO SAVE THE PRESIDENT?
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:46 PM on February 1, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:46 PM on February 1, 2017 [14 favorites]
They don't want psychopaths, but they also don't want moralistic Pollyannas who don't understand that compromises have to be made everywhere.
Is there anything at all that nobody should ever do?
this is a harder question that more applicants would fail at, but on the other hand nobody would get off on how tough they were for answering it unless their answer was No. but if it were me doing the hiring I'd give it a shot.
I do want a few moral people in goverment, even if the price for that is having other people call them moralistic when they object to internment camps, torture, police brutality, and so on. you got to break some eggs to make an omelette but you don't have to eat twenty omelettes every goddamn day until you vomit and die. that's my philosophy.
posted by queenofbithynia at 1:48 PM on February 1, 2017 [11 favorites]
Is there anything at all that nobody should ever do?
this is a harder question that more applicants would fail at, but on the other hand nobody would get off on how tough they were for answering it unless their answer was No. but if it were me doing the hiring I'd give it a shot.
I do want a few moral people in goverment, even if the price for that is having other people call them moralistic when they object to internment camps, torture, police brutality, and so on. you got to break some eggs to make an omelette but you don't have to eat twenty omelettes every goddamn day until you vomit and die. that's my philosophy.
posted by queenofbithynia at 1:48 PM on February 1, 2017 [11 favorites]
I need to know if the puppy is threatening the President.
Good boy!
posted by ryanrs at 1:48 PM on February 1, 2017 [9 favorites]
Good boy!
posted by ryanrs at 1:48 PM on February 1, 2017 [9 favorites]
lol i have no family and i like puppies better than humans so bye human race the life of this one pupper was def worth it
posted by poffin boffin at 1:49 PM on February 1, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by poffin boffin at 1:49 PM on February 1, 2017 [16 favorites]
Somehow, I don't think, "If you asked me to choose between putting my mom in a microwave, vs. a dog, I would put you in the microwave" is an answer that's going to land anyone the job.
really though this would be the correct answer imho: you identify the person who is holding your family hostage and who also apparently likes putting dogs in microwaves and you hunt them like the most dangerous game
posted by poffin boffin at 1:51 PM on February 1, 2017 [16 favorites]
really though this would be the correct answer imho: you identify the person who is holding your family hostage and who also apparently likes putting dogs in microwaves and you hunt them like the most dangerous game
posted by poffin boffin at 1:51 PM on February 1, 2017 [16 favorites]
Isn't "not negotiating with terrorists" supposed to be WH policy anyway?
posted by ryanrs at 1:55 PM on February 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by ryanrs at 1:55 PM on February 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
the question the interviewer really should be asking is if you would ever under any circumstance reheat your fish dinner leftovers in the microwave because WE ALL HAVE TO SHARE THE SAME BREAK ROOM, DAMMIT
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:55 PM on February 1, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:55 PM on February 1, 2017 [13 favorites]
"Is the microwave plugged in?"
posted by notsnot at 1:57 PM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by notsnot at 1:57 PM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
Bannon: "...if I had a dollar for every puppy I've microwaved..."
Trump: "You're hired!"
posted by drlith at 2:03 PM on February 1, 2017
Trump: "You're hired!"
posted by drlith at 2:03 PM on February 1, 2017
My response would be "you couldn't pay me to microwave a puppy, but if you convince me it's necessary for the greater good, I will do it for free".
posted by Megafly at 2:07 PM on February 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Megafly at 2:07 PM on February 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
Also I will personally microwave the puppy AND mother of anybody who cooks any type of seafood in the breakroom toaster oven. Fish sticks are for home stefan!
posted by Megafly at 2:08 PM on February 1, 2017
posted by Megafly at 2:08 PM on February 1, 2017
"The question is vague...you don't say if anyone is watching, or what kind of puppy"
posted by queenofbithynia at 2:11 PM on February 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by queenofbithynia at 2:11 PM on February 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
It sort of reminds me of that bit in the Andromeda Strain (which I must have read 25 years ago but am clearly still aggravated about), which I've also been thinking about lately, where Crichton claims that "science says" women who are mothers make the worst decisions about whether to self-destruct the lab because they're too emotional AND they're too attached to their own survival because they love their children, while single men make the best decisions because they're more logical AND they're disinterested in their own fate and therefore more interested in the fate of all mankind. Which is not only sexist and gender essentialist, whatever, but even if you accept the terms of his trolley problem, wouldn't the mother's attachment to her CHILDREN OUTSIDE THE LAB surviving the virus make her MORE likely to destroy the lab if necessary, while the single man would be LESS likely to because he's important to himself but gives zero shits about all those people outside the lab? Like under this logic, wouldn't HE be more likely to misjudge giving himself a small chance of survival at the expense of everyone else? Since the mother's misjudgement would kill her children as well as herself, while the single man's misjudgment would kill only him (that he cares about). What incentive does he have to save mankind? While the mom has a powerful incentive to GET IT RIGHT so that she can survive if possible but SAVE HER CHILDREN if not.
Anyway I keep thinking about this lately because the Congressional GOP's arguments all seem to come down to "Look, caring about other people causes you to make weak, bad decisions." Dude, WHAT IS THE GOVERNMENT EVEN FOR if not the benefit of the PEOPLE who are governed? It's like a Congress full of Crichtons who consider love for sissies.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 2:18 PM on February 1, 2017 [53 favorites]
Anyway I keep thinking about this lately because the Congressional GOP's arguments all seem to come down to "Look, caring about other people causes you to make weak, bad decisions." Dude, WHAT IS THE GOVERNMENT EVEN FOR if not the benefit of the PEOPLE who are governed? It's like a Congress full of Crichtons who consider love for sissies.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 2:18 PM on February 1, 2017 [53 favorites]
Crichton claims that "science says" women who are mothers make the worst decisions about whether to self-destruct the lab because they're too emotional AND they're too attached to their own survival because they love their children, while single men make the best decisions because they're more logical AND they're disinterested in their own fate and therefore more interested in the fate of all mankind.
I think the real question is whether any of the men asked the mother to make a fresh pot of coffee for the lab that day because they don't know how the coffee maker works in which case I think the lab is going to go up in a fireball even if there's no dangerous virus inside.
posted by GuyZero at 2:31 PM on February 1, 2017 [14 favorites]
I think the real question is whether any of the men asked the mother to make a fresh pot of coffee for the lab that day because they don't know how the coffee maker works in which case I think the lab is going to go up in a fireball even if there's no dangerous virus inside.
posted by GuyZero at 2:31 PM on February 1, 2017 [14 favorites]
Eyebrows--my shrink says that when something is stuck in your craw like that for no particular reason, it's usually your brain trying to tell you something important about yourself.
Here, it's that you are a person who is capable of recognizing objective reality, i.e., that Michael Crichton was kiiiind of a thoughtless dick.
posted by radicalawyer at 2:52 PM on February 1, 2017 [15 favorites]
Here, it's that you are a person who is capable of recognizing objective reality, i.e., that Michael Crichton was kiiiind of a thoughtless dick.
posted by radicalawyer at 2:52 PM on February 1, 2017 [15 favorites]
She's MY MOM! I'dthrow an umlimited amount of anonymous people in the microwave for her!
posted by Omnomnom at 2:57 PM on February 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Omnomnom at 2:57 PM on February 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
It's an interesting line of questioning, but putting the initial scenario in terms of personal financial gain seems sort of wrong headed. The people who have to make real-world government trade-offs of this kind aren't supposed to be enriching themselves (or their friends) while they do it.
posted by Western Infidels at 3:03 PM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Western Infidels at 3:03 PM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
putting the initial scenario in terms of personal financial gain seems sort of wrong headed.
Interview questions need to be simplified.
You could very well ask people to pick a favourite charity that the money will go to.
posted by GuyZero at 3:05 PM on February 1, 2017
Interview questions need to be simplified.
You could very well ask people to pick a favourite charity that the money will go to.
posted by GuyZero at 3:05 PM on February 1, 2017
She's MY MOM! I'dthrow an umlimited amount of anonymous people in the microwave for her!
posted by Omnomnom at 5:57 PM on February 1
[+] [!]
She is the Omnomnommom! That would be a hell of a good vanity license plate.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 3:07 PM on February 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Omnomnom at 5:57 PM on February 1
[+] [!]
She is the Omnomnommom! That would be a hell of a good vanity license plate.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 3:07 PM on February 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
The people who have to make real-world government trade-offs of this kind aren't supposed to be enriching themselves (or their friends) while they do it.
yeahbut the Republican party
posted by Greg_Ace at 3:13 PM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
yeahbut the Republican party
posted by Greg_Ace at 3:13 PM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
Oh hell, who am I kidding - both parties, honestly. But riding the anti-Republican wave made for a pithier response.
posted by Greg_Ace at 3:38 PM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Greg_Ace at 3:38 PM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
Ever since the Philosophy of Ethics course I took in university I've thought these questions are BS. When you are given a scenario where (actual quote from said course) "Aliens say they will blow up the world unless you chainsaw this baby." how the fuck is someone's first instinct to trust the scenario as presented? Apparently answering that I'd try to get myself committed because I was worried I might harm myself or others is being a smart ass.
They're worried that more details will dilute the matter, but the details are what is important.
(I'm pretty sure this was all covered in The Dark Knight starring Christian Bale and Heath Ledger.)
posted by ODiV at 3:40 PM on February 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
They're worried that more details will dilute the matter, but the details are what is important.
(I'm pretty sure this was all covered in The Dark Knight starring Christian Bale and Heath Ledger.)
posted by ODiV at 3:40 PM on February 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
"Put it in the microwave and press start" are the only instructions.
1. Unplug the microwave.
...or if this isn't an option...
2. Put it on the lowest setting for 1 second.
Obviously they're probing for your moral compass with this scenario, but I would prefer to Kobayashi Maru a technological solution.
posted by zakur at 3:48 PM on February 1, 2017 [19 favorites]
1. Unplug the microwave.
...or if this isn't an option...
2. Put it on the lowest setting for 1 second.
Obviously they're probing for your moral compass with this scenario, but I would prefer to Kobayashi Maru a technological solution.
posted by zakur at 3:48 PM on February 1, 2017 [19 favorites]
It seems unlikely that this story is anything but apocryphal. As a White House staffer, you're not making moral decisions yourself or in a vacuum. You're an extant trusted adviser, a subject matter expert, an experienced political operative. You're not making decisions like "should we fund urban or rural schools" based on your own principals; you're not making those decisions at all. You're making choices like "should we fight Congress on this line item versus that one" or "what is our framing on X issue" and so on. Even the national security folks, who are making decisions that weigh direct human lives against another, don't come from nothing and don't get stupid questions like this.
It's a nice thought experiment, but I doubt it.
posted by quadrilaterals at 3:48 PM on February 1, 2017 [5 favorites]
It's a nice thought experiment, but I doubt it.
posted by quadrilaterals at 3:48 PM on February 1, 2017 [5 favorites]
As a White House staffer, you're not making moral decisions yourself or in a vacuum.
It's supposed to see who goes to shit when confronted with an impossible decision.
When the President order the Air Force to shoot down a hijacked passenger jet full of innocent people to save a stadium full of Packers fans, are you still going to be able to stand up and file papers or whatever your irrelevant white house staff job is.
Clearly you're not being interviewed to be President. But some people can't handle simply being in the presence of extreme stress well.
But maybe, yeah, maybe no one ever really got asked this question.
posted by GuyZero at 4:01 PM on February 1, 2017
It's supposed to see who goes to shit when confronted with an impossible decision.
When the President order the Air Force to shoot down a hijacked passenger jet full of innocent people to save a stadium full of Packers fans, are you still going to be able to stand up and file papers or whatever your irrelevant white house staff job is.
Clearly you're not being interviewed to be President. But some people can't handle simply being in the presence of extreme stress well.
But maybe, yeah, maybe no one ever really got asked this question.
posted by GuyZero at 4:01 PM on February 1, 2017
Years ago, I was asked a seemingly innocuous question (about video card standards) for a tech job I didn't get. I learned later it was one of those "gotcha" questions which I apparently didn't even recognize as a gotcha. I don't even remember the question, except that after I parsed it through I thought the VGA card would be the best solution. I should have told them I'd put the puppy in the microwave.
Someone who knew about the interview told me that the one interviewer thought my answer was arrogant and boastful, clearly making me unfit to deal diplomatically with the difficult people I'd encounter in this job. The other thought my answer was wish-washy and lacked confidence, and I'd never be able to stand up to the difficult people I'd encounter in this job. (Btw - I was already encountering them - for a year already, with no issues at all - that's why they sent me over to HR, to see if I could become a real employee.) Go figure - big corporations take idiotic to Lovecraft levels, or depths.
posted by lagomorphius at 4:35 PM on February 1, 2017 [7 favorites]
Someone who knew about the interview told me that the one interviewer thought my answer was arrogant and boastful, clearly making me unfit to deal diplomatically with the difficult people I'd encounter in this job. The other thought my answer was wish-washy and lacked confidence, and I'd never be able to stand up to the difficult people I'd encounter in this job. (Btw - I was already encountering them - for a year already, with no issues at all - that's why they sent me over to HR, to see if I could become a real employee.) Go figure - big corporations take idiotic to Lovecraft levels, or depths.
posted by lagomorphius at 4:35 PM on February 1, 2017 [7 favorites]
I shouldn't be surprised that many of you would overthink a microwave full of puppy.
posted by GhostintheMachine at 4:53 PM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by GhostintheMachine at 4:53 PM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
Ever since the Philosophy of Ethics course I took in university I've thought these questions are BS.
Most of these kinds of questions, like the Trolley Problem, are unrealistic and kinda fake.
The sort of ethical question like this that is more realistic: occupying military forces threatening to harm the families of detainees in exchange for information about resistance movements. No easy answer.
posted by ovvl at 4:54 PM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
Most of these kinds of questions, like the Trolley Problem, are unrealistic and kinda fake.
The sort of ethical question like this that is more realistic: occupying military forces threatening to harm the families of detainees in exchange for information about resistance movements. No easy answer.
posted by ovvl at 4:54 PM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
"Tell me about a time when you were forced to choose between microwaving a small, cute animal or having an untouchable third-party kill a person you're very fond of. Please be specific."
LEON: A person I'm very fond of?
Let me tell you about a person I'm very fond of.
LEON violently lunges towards a pen and notepad and writes a
strongly-worded letter of complaint to the interviewer's supervisor.posted by No-sword at 5:06 PM on February 1, 2017 [6 favorites] What if you'd sacrifice your mom, but not because you don't like your mom, you just REALLY like puppies? WHAT THEN?
posted by Anonymous at 5:07 PM on February 1, 2017
posted by Anonymous at 5:07 PM on February 1, 2017
I find these sorts of questions challenging, so I try to imagine that the interviewer has just huffed a balloon full of helium and sounds like they're asking this question on behalf of the Lollipop Guild, while I've just had three fingers of good scotch. It doesn't make my answer any better, but it probably doesn't make it any worse, either. And scotch is nice.
posted by mosk at 5:16 PM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by mosk at 5:16 PM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
It's days like these that I'm so glad that my parents are long gone. Not necessarily because their lives would complicate any question in an unacceptable way, but more like I don't really want to admit to a prospective employer (or maybe myself?) just how little it would have taken for me to fry one or the other.
posted by janey47 at 5:17 PM on February 1, 2017
posted by janey47 at 5:17 PM on February 1, 2017
10 puppies are only worth 3 monkeys!
posted by cjorgensen at 5:17 PM on February 1, 2017
posted by cjorgensen at 5:17 PM on February 1, 2017
A friend of mine prepped for a high-up policy/law fed job interview ~2 years ago and got hammered with similar things. I don’t want to go into it, but anyway, I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s still going on.
posted by aperturescientist at 5:53 PM on February 1, 2017
posted by aperturescientist at 5:53 PM on February 1, 2017
I've found that when dealing with wackos, the key is to out-wacko them.
So I do something like: "Well, let me tell you about the the last time I had to make that kind of choice. I was being held at gunpoint by a terrierist. So here's what I did ...."
posted by hank at 6:05 PM on February 1, 2017 [4 favorites]
So I do something like: "Well, let me tell you about the the last time I had to make that kind of choice. I was being held at gunpoint by a terrierist. So here's what I did ...."
posted by hank at 6:05 PM on February 1, 2017 [4 favorites]
"You're not making decisions like "should we fund urban or rural schools" based on your own principals; you're not making those decisions at all. You're making choices like "should we fight Congress on this line item versus that one" or "what is our framing on X issue" and so on. "
Dude, that's how you MAKE choices like "should we fund urban or rural schools?"! Nobody says, "Hey, let's fund urban schools at the expense of rural ones" but lots of staffers make decisions like, "What should the multiplier be for this line of funding for this specific student issue?" and it has the effect of disproportionately funding urban schools. Do you even that out? Do you let it stand? Do you admit it or do you pretend it's nothing you did? That's how the freakin' sausage gets made.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 6:28 PM on February 1, 2017 [8 favorites]
Dude, that's how you MAKE choices like "should we fund urban or rural schools?"! Nobody says, "Hey, let's fund urban schools at the expense of rural ones" but lots of staffers make decisions like, "What should the multiplier be for this line of funding for this specific student issue?" and it has the effect of disproportionately funding urban schools. Do you even that out? Do you let it stand? Do you admit it or do you pretend it's nothing you did? That's how the freakin' sausage gets made.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 6:28 PM on February 1, 2017 [8 favorites]
My first response to the question was "does the microwave have to be plugged in?"
posted by cheshyre at 6:31 PM on February 1, 2017
posted by cheshyre at 6:31 PM on February 1, 2017
Obviously they're probing for your moral compass with this scenario, but I would prefer to Kobayashi Maru a technological solution.
Same, but in the opposite direction-- my mom is dead, and I'm sure she wouldn't mind at all if I put her ashes in a microwave to save some puppers!
CHECKMATE, HUMAN RESOURCES
posted by a fiendish thingy at 7:35 PM on February 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
Same, but in the opposite direction-- my mom is dead, and I'm sure she wouldn't mind at all if I put her ashes in a microwave to save some puppers!
CHECKMATE, HUMAN RESOURCES
posted by a fiendish thingy at 7:35 PM on February 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
November 9th, 2016. Clinton: 325, Trump 213.
How many puppies would you pay for THAT?
posted by cacofonie at 8:32 PM on February 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
How many puppies would you pay for THAT?
posted by cacofonie at 8:32 PM on February 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
The first step is to remove the elephant, of course.
posted by Nanukthedog at 10:16 PM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Nanukthedog at 10:16 PM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
I guess I would say 'Does it have to be a microwave? Because we have far more humane methods of euthanasia now.' Subjecting the puppy to a tremendously painful death seems pointless unless they're asking if I could work in whatever branch of government deals with Gitmo.
posted by HypotheticalWoman at 12:23 AM on February 2, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by HypotheticalWoman at 12:23 AM on February 2, 2017 [1 favorite]
"I feel like I've been standing underneath an open window, just as a baby gets tossed out. I grab the baby, right, because who wouldn't? But then another baby gets tossed out, so I pass the baby to someone else, and I make the catch. This keeps happening. And before you know it there are a whole bunch of people who are getting really good at passing along babies, just like I'm good at catching them, but no one ever asks who the fuck is throwing the babies out the window in the first place." - Jodi Picoult, Small Great Things
posted by anshuman at 12:40 AM on February 2, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by anshuman at 12:40 AM on February 2, 2017 [7 favorites]
You all are so distracted by the puppies and the microwave that none of you noticed the gorilla on the unicycle.
posted by ardgedee at 2:31 AM on February 2, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by ardgedee at 2:31 AM on February 2, 2017 [4 favorites]
I need to know if the puppy is threatening the President. If if my mom is threatening the President.
Likewise. Wait. Which president? Does the puppy have a clear line of fire and a worked out getaway plan? Can we train the puppy? Is it planning on taking out Bannon with the next shot?
posted by sebastienbailard at 3:43 AM on February 2, 2017 [2 favorites]
Likewise. Wait. Which president? Does the puppy have a clear line of fire and a worked out getaway plan? Can we train the puppy? Is it planning on taking out Bannon with the next shot?
posted by sebastienbailard at 3:43 AM on February 2, 2017 [2 favorites]
I feel like this administration is a good time to invest in trolley and microwave stocks.
posted by sebastienbailard at 3:44 AM on February 2, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by sebastienbailard at 3:44 AM on February 2, 2017 [2 favorites]
If you'd ask my mom, she'd say to take her and not the puppy. Even though she's 70, she's statistically gonna outlive the beejesus out of that pup.
posted by Sphinx at 4:15 AM on February 2, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Sphinx at 4:15 AM on February 2, 2017 [2 favorites]
My mother is still haranguing me about "un democratically" fighting Trump, while my puppers is bringing me Ball and asking to play. Little does she know she has just made my White House possibilities in a next administration far easier!
posted by corb at 7:10 AM on February 2, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by corb at 7:10 AM on February 2, 2017 [11 favorites]
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posted by xingcat at 12:43 PM on February 1, 2017