Allahu Akbar
February 13, 2017 7:59 AM Subscribe
The Meaning of Allahu Akbar, by Mehreen Kasana. "While sauntering through the woods during her daily walks in Virginia, my mother recorded a video of a deer with her youngling. They seemed calm looking at mama and continued enjoying the verdant surroundings. A few seconds into the video, you can hear my mother whisper 'Allahu Akbar' with love."
This post was deleted for the following reason: Poster's Request -- frimble
it is so upsetting for me to see this beautiful, everyday phrase, be seen as something so terrible. i still can never get used to it, it's the one obvious thing that reminds me that my world is a foreign one.
posted by cendawanita at 8:23 AM on February 13, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by cendawanita at 8:23 AM on February 13, 2017 [14 favorites]
cenda--if it's not too much for a maximally privileged American to ask, could you share some things that have prompted to you to say it in the past? I had no idea that it had this dimension of use to praise everyday beauty and express thankfulness.
posted by radicalawyer at 8:36 AM on February 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by radicalawyer at 8:36 AM on February 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
Wow. I'm so glad to have read this. Thank you to the author and thanks for posting it.
posted by eggkeeper at 8:49 AM on February 13, 2017
posted by eggkeeper at 8:49 AM on February 13, 2017
In a similar vein: the appropriation of the swastika. My daughter's skating class is called Swastik Skaters, a super mundane name in India, but the reaction of my american/canadian inlaws to seeing it was both hilarious and annoying. Another peaceful auspicious symbol ruined by the west.
posted by dhruva at 8:49 AM on February 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by dhruva at 8:49 AM on February 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
well, to start with, and other Muslims are free to correct me, to explain the way i'm raised saying it, is that first you have to understand, in my culture, when Muslims say, "Allahu Akbar" (God is great) or "Ya Allah" (Oh God) or "Wallah" (same) or "Subhanallah" (praise god) etc, we see it as prayers and not taking God's name in vain. But in practical usage, it may look the same LOL.
And we're also trained to be very liberal in using these expressions, since these are all prayers/praises and therefore good things, if you see something (whether good OR bad), don't you want to invoke God? Like, personally and culturally for me, it's more common to hear "La Illah ha illallah" (there is one God) for similar purposes. See a pretty boy? God is great. See a beautiful park? God is great. Your bro did you a major solid? God is great. Your ex got their just desserts? Heh, God is great there too. Wonder Woman turns out to be an above average movie? God is great! It's just way common, and then encountering western media where this is shorthand for terrorism? Well, that always takes me a minute.
posted by cendawanita at 8:50 AM on February 13, 2017 [81 favorites]
And we're also trained to be very liberal in using these expressions, since these are all prayers/praises and therefore good things, if you see something (whether good OR bad), don't you want to invoke God? Like, personally and culturally for me, it's more common to hear "La Illah ha illallah" (there is one God) for similar purposes. See a pretty boy? God is great. See a beautiful park? God is great. Your bro did you a major solid? God is great. Your ex got their just desserts? Heh, God is great there too. Wonder Woman turns out to be an above average movie? God is great! It's just way common, and then encountering western media where this is shorthand for terrorism? Well, that always takes me a minute.
posted by cendawanita at 8:50 AM on February 13, 2017 [81 favorites]
(I have gone, "La illah ha illallah, what are you doing, cat??")
posted by cendawanita at 8:51 AM on February 13, 2017 [59 favorites]
posted by cendawanita at 8:51 AM on February 13, 2017 [59 favorites]
Thank you for posting this.
Why don't we translate these simple expressions more often? "God is great", "There is no God but God", "God willing". These sound like normal words to Christians and Jews too; the Abrahamic religions have a lot more in common than they have differences. But leaving them in Arabic instead of translating them reinforces the alienness and otherness.
I'm given to mischievously saying "Inshallah" from time to time. It's a little appropriative of me but it's fun to raise people's eyebrows. And I like the existential shrug of it.
I'm always a little freaked out when I go to Austria and people say "Grüß Gott" to me.
posted by Nelson at 8:53 AM on February 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
Why don't we translate these simple expressions more often? "God is great", "There is no God but God", "God willing". These sound like normal words to Christians and Jews too; the Abrahamic religions have a lot more in common than they have differences. But leaving them in Arabic instead of translating them reinforces the alienness and otherness.
I'm given to mischievously saying "Inshallah" from time to time. It's a little appropriative of me but it's fun to raise people's eyebrows. And I like the existential shrug of it.
I'm always a little freaked out when I go to Austria and people say "Grüß Gott" to me.
posted by Nelson at 8:53 AM on February 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
personally i think it's great if insya-allah is in your common parlance, and i wouldn't find it appropriative, in fact you're welcome to it! (mind you i live in a country where fundamentalist boundary policing is truly a systemic thing, so i'm part of those who would very much welcome these small acts)
as for the translation, I'll let western Muslims take this one? I think in this I definitely differ in practice. The phrases I say, I say in a code-switching way (these are normal terms in Malay, and I'm a multilingual speaker in a multilingual environment), but when I speak to foreigners, I do translate the Islamic terms I use. It's only recently I'm using more of these terms untranslated when speaking in international English, especially among Muslims.
posted by cendawanita at 8:58 AM on February 13, 2017 [8 favorites]
as for the translation, I'll let western Muslims take this one? I think in this I definitely differ in practice. The phrases I say, I say in a code-switching way (these are normal terms in Malay, and I'm a multilingual speaker in a multilingual environment), but when I speak to foreigners, I do translate the Islamic terms I use. It's only recently I'm using more of these terms untranslated when speaking in international English, especially among Muslims.
posted by cendawanita at 8:58 AM on February 13, 2017 [8 favorites]
it is so upsetting for me to see this beautiful, everyday phrase, be seen as something so terrible. i still can never get used to it, it's the one obvious thing that reminds me that my world is a foreign one.
Right there with you, cendawanita.
posted by Ziggy500 at 9:25 AM on February 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
Right there with you, cendawanita.
posted by Ziggy500 at 9:25 AM on February 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
ah i love mehreen so much. she's such a wonderful writer and this is an excellent piece
posted by burgerrr at 9:42 AM on February 13, 2017
posted by burgerrr at 9:42 AM on February 13, 2017
personally i think it's great if insya-allah is in your common parlance, and i wouldn't find it appropriative, in fact you're welcome to it!
Yay! I do this too, and I'd been trying to stop. But now I think I'm going to stop trying to stop.
posted by palmcorder_yajna at 9:48 AM on February 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
Yay! I do this too, and I'd been trying to stop. But now I think I'm going to stop trying to stop.
posted by palmcorder_yajna at 9:48 AM on February 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
This is beautiful. Thank you so much for posting it, Greg, and cendawanita, for taking the time to share examples from your experience.
posted by Songdog at 10:12 AM on February 13, 2017
posted by Songdog at 10:12 AM on February 13, 2017
Inshallah can be said by (respectful, thoughtful, well-meaning) white folk in France without a hitch. A lot of people know what it means, though the number of white people who say it nowadays has decreased (sigh). It was a thing everywhere I lived, but then I've always been in diverse areas too. "Bonne journée ! Inshallah!" It means "god willing."
In public transportation here you can catch phone conversations that often seem to consist of "alhamdulillah, mash'Allah, insh'Allah" which are the expressions more used by Maghrebi speakers. Alhamdulillah means "thanks be to God," and mashallah is essentially the past tense of inshallah. "God willed it so." Subn'Allah and Allahu Akhbar are more used by those from other places. I love hearing alhamdulillah sprinkled generously as hamdullah.
I too get weirded out on seeing Allahu akhbar appropriated the way it is in the States. It's a more moderate negative bias here, but it is still there, sigh. People do hold back because of it, which is heartbreaking. It has such a heartening meaning.
posted by fraula at 10:13 AM on February 13, 2017 [7 favorites]
In public transportation here you can catch phone conversations that often seem to consist of "alhamdulillah, mash'Allah, insh'Allah" which are the expressions more used by Maghrebi speakers. Alhamdulillah means "thanks be to God," and mashallah is essentially the past tense of inshallah. "God willed it so." Subn'Allah and Allahu Akhbar are more used by those from other places. I love hearing alhamdulillah sprinkled generously as hamdullah.
I too get weirded out on seeing Allahu akhbar appropriated the way it is in the States. It's a more moderate negative bias here, but it is still there, sigh. People do hold back because of it, which is heartbreaking. It has such a heartening meaning.
posted by fraula at 10:13 AM on February 13, 2017 [7 favorites]
for maximum offending the "anti-PC snowflake" crowd we should probably all be using "ojala" right?
thanks for posting (and discussing) this - very interesting.
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 10:13 AM on February 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
thanks for posting (and discussing) this - very interesting.
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 10:13 AM on February 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
Thank you for posting this beautifully written and thought provoking piece.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 11:11 AM on February 13, 2017
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 11:11 AM on February 13, 2017
This is such a beautiful piece - thank you for sharing.
posted by sunset in snow country at 11:13 AM on February 13, 2017
posted by sunset in snow country at 11:13 AM on February 13, 2017
Use inshallah far and wide, I'm another Muslim who doesn't mind. It's a useful word! Even if you're agnostic like me, it's a great shorthand.
In my family, allahu akbar isn't nearly so common as mashallah or alhamdulillah, not sure if that's because of the baggage it's acquired or not. To my amusement, la illah ha illallah is used most often effectively as a replacement for "for fuck's sake/for god's sake." There is indeed something satisfying about letting forth a subvocal or muttered la illah ha illallah when something or someone is testing your patience.
posted by yasaman at 11:17 AM on February 13, 2017 [14 favorites]
In my family, allahu akbar isn't nearly so common as mashallah or alhamdulillah, not sure if that's because of the baggage it's acquired or not. To my amusement, la illah ha illallah is used most often effectively as a replacement for "for fuck's sake/for god's sake." There is indeed something satisfying about letting forth a subvocal or muttered la illah ha illallah when something or someone is testing your patience.
posted by yasaman at 11:17 AM on February 13, 2017 [14 favorites]
This was very nice, thank you. I remember in high school when we were learning other religions, and these sayings were brought up as a cultural note. How they pepper the language. Everyone in the class though it was so weird. "Why do they talk about Allah all the time?" etc. Mind you, this was a high school in the american south. We talk about Jesus like he's our sponsor. From the average "Thank you, jesus" all the way to "If the good lord willing and the creek don't rise" when you want something to happen but it doesn't look like it will.
Anyway. We're really not all that different. And where we are we should take joy in it, like we do with this article.
posted by FirstMateKate at 11:38 AM on February 13, 2017 [8 favorites]
Anyway. We're really not all that different. And where we are we should take joy in it, like we do with this article.
posted by FirstMateKate at 11:38 AM on February 13, 2017 [8 favorites]
Anyway. We're really not all that different.
As-Salaam Alaikum. Shalom. Peace be with you. We should start with that commonality; peace is for all.
posted by Ogre Lawless at 12:35 PM on February 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
As-Salaam Alaikum. Shalom. Peace be with you. We should start with that commonality; peace is for all.
posted by Ogre Lawless at 12:35 PM on February 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
Invoking God in everyday discourse is pretty normal. OMG, seriously.
posted by Peach at 12:38 PM on February 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Peach at 12:38 PM on February 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
Yeah, it's so strange to me (I mean not -- I know the real reasons, the racism and the misunderstandings and the fears, and all of that) but these words and phrases -- they're embedded in Christian practice just as much, often the exact words in translation.
I remember growing up Evangelical, can still hear the melody of songs with lyrics like "God is great / and greatly to be praised / Bless the Lord, O my soul"; people would say "God willing" or "If the Lord wills" after proposing a plan, or in writing "D.V." (deo volente) if they were a bit pretentious :).
And of course, "Thanks be to God", and "the peace of the Lord be with you".
We are all humans together.
posted by tivalasvegas at 12:44 PM on February 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
I remember growing up Evangelical, can still hear the melody of songs with lyrics like "God is great / and greatly to be praised / Bless the Lord, O my soul"; people would say "God willing" or "If the Lord wills" after proposing a plan, or in writing "D.V." (deo volente) if they were a bit pretentious :).
And of course, "Thanks be to God", and "the peace of the Lord be with you".
We are all humans together.
posted by tivalasvegas at 12:44 PM on February 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
I thoroughly enjoyed this piece, which showed the many different ways takbir is used, which I love from a linguistic point of view. I hadn't realized how negative the association had become, but of course that has happened. It was a bright ray in an otherwise cloudy day.
posted by Pocahontas at 12:59 PM on February 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Pocahontas at 12:59 PM on February 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
Aside from so often only encountering the phrase in the worst imaginible contexts (like Fox News or a Steven Seagal movie), the thing that can make "Allahu Akbar" seem so alarmingly devotional to a Christian audience despite its many, many, many Christian equivalents is precisely that there are so many Christian equivalents, so watered down and spread so thin over absolutely everything that they're practically invisible.
The vast majority of those Christian equivalents are minced into harmlessness, or mashed with profanity, or both simultaneously, due to the confusing tug-of-war between the fear of blasphemy (hence the mincing of "Oh my God" to "Oh my gosh," "For Christ's sake" to "For crying out loud," etc.) and the power of blasphemy (hence the explicitly religious exclamations and their close companionship with the bodily profane: "Holy Shit," "Jesus Fucking Christ," etc.). They're used so regularly as generic expletives and exclamations that we hardly even notice them at all, never mind that they've ever held any religious significance to begin with. Also, we have stuff where religion morphs into pure superstition, as in "knock on wood" (or "touch wood" if you're one of those weirdoes from over there) in place of "God willing."
When there's just the one phrase, explicitly religious, without mincing, without mashing, it can really jump out to people unused to that sort of thing, and those people may be unable to read the intention from context alone...especially if they've got racism, xenophobia, and/or islamophobia clouding their judgment.
posted by Sys Rq at 1:12 PM on February 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
The vast majority of those Christian equivalents are minced into harmlessness, or mashed with profanity, or both simultaneously, due to the confusing tug-of-war between the fear of blasphemy (hence the mincing of "Oh my God" to "Oh my gosh," "For Christ's sake" to "For crying out loud," etc.) and the power of blasphemy (hence the explicitly religious exclamations and their close companionship with the bodily profane: "Holy Shit," "Jesus Fucking Christ," etc.). They're used so regularly as generic expletives and exclamations that we hardly even notice them at all, never mind that they've ever held any religious significance to begin with. Also, we have stuff where religion morphs into pure superstition, as in "knock on wood" (or "touch wood" if you're one of those weirdoes from over there) in place of "God willing."
When there's just the one phrase, explicitly religious, without mincing, without mashing, it can really jump out to people unused to that sort of thing, and those people may be unable to read the intention from context alone...especially if they've got racism, xenophobia, and/or islamophobia clouding their judgment.
posted by Sys Rq at 1:12 PM on February 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
Beautiful post. Thanks for sharing.
posted by fiercecupcake at 1:15 PM on February 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by fiercecupcake at 1:15 PM on February 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
for maximum offending the "anti-PC snowflake" crowd we should probably all be using "ojala" right?
Oh, wow. I picked up the habit of saying ojalá in Peru but I never made the connection to inshallah (obvious in hindsight, esp given history of Spain). That is cool.
posted by straight at 1:32 PM on February 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
Oh, wow. I picked up the habit of saying ojalá in Peru but I never made the connection to inshallah (obvious in hindsight, esp given history of Spain). That is cool.
posted by straight at 1:32 PM on February 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
I have gone, "La illah ha illallah, what are you doing, cat??"
Day 418: The human continues to acknowledge my Godhood, and marvel at my works.
posted by uosuaq at 2:08 PM on February 13, 2017 [27 favorites]
Day 418: The human continues to acknowledge my Godhood, and marvel at my works.
posted by uosuaq at 2:08 PM on February 13, 2017 [27 favorites]
I'm given to mischievously saying "Inshallah" from time to time. It's a little appropriative of me but it's fun to raise people's eyebrows.
I will always remember the day I took an "Introduction to Written Arabic" class at St.Bart's, an Episcopalian church in New York. They'd got a local imam to run the class (in the church hall), and when he said that he hoped by the end of the day that we'd be able to read and write a few simple phrases in Arabic, a voice said "Inshallah" from the back of the room. It was the rabbi who ran their inter-faith center and who had organized the course.
It's the first (and last) time I've heard a rabbi say "Inshallah" in church...
posted by 43rdAnd9th at 7:43 PM on February 13, 2017 [7 favorites]
I will always remember the day I took an "Introduction to Written Arabic" class at St.Bart's, an Episcopalian church in New York. They'd got a local imam to run the class (in the church hall), and when he said that he hoped by the end of the day that we'd be able to read and write a few simple phrases in Arabic, a voice said "Inshallah" from the back of the room. It was the rabbi who ran their inter-faith center and who had organized the course.
It's the first (and last) time I've heard a rabbi say "Inshallah" in church...
posted by 43rdAnd9th at 7:43 PM on February 13, 2017 [7 favorites]
When my father thinks he looks great in his three-piece suit with a dash of discounted Kouros on, he grins in the mirror and says “Allahu Akbar” to himself, popping his collar. Indeed, God is great, for God made it possible for papa to own an Yves Saint Laurent fragrance for $54.49.
Too awesome for words.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 8:16 PM on February 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
Too awesome for words.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 8:16 PM on February 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
Between the saying of the Prophet "Keep your tongue moist with remembrance (invocation) of Allah" and Quran 13:28 "Verily through the remembrance/invocation of God do hearts find peace," there's rarely a time or place where calling upon the Lord is inappropriate.
Other popular phrases you're likely to find a muslim mutter:
Astaghfirullah: I beg God's forgiveness. Often deployed on behalf of others, as in "Did you see the way he spoke to his mother? Astaghfirullah."
Bismillah: In the name of God. Useful before beginning anything, like starting the car or feeding a baby.
Wallah: Used like "I swear to God" and borderline profane imho if not sincere.
posted by BinGregory at 10:25 PM on February 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
Other popular phrases you're likely to find a muslim mutter:
Astaghfirullah: I beg God's forgiveness. Often deployed on behalf of others, as in "Did you see the way he spoke to his mother? Astaghfirullah."
Bismillah: In the name of God. Useful before beginning anything, like starting the car or feeding a baby.
Wallah: Used like "I swear to God" and borderline profane imho if not sincere.
posted by BinGregory at 10:25 PM on February 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
Beautiful article, thank you. It's deeply sad how we have allowed hate and ignorance to harm the beauty of these words. I appreciate being able to read them in their true context of joy and love.
personally i think it's great if insya-allah is in your common parlance, and i wouldn't find it appropriative, in fact you're welcome to it!
I'm really glad to hear this. I have done this for years, ever since I worked for an anti-racism charity alongside Muslim colleagues and clients, and realised it was basically the Arabic version of the "Please God" that my Irish Catholic Mum says all the time. "Bye Mum, talk to you tomorrow." "Please God." I don't think we should translate phrases to stop them being "alien", I think people should get used to hearing words in other languages and accept that English is not the only valid language just like Christianity is not the only valid religion. One of my bosses is a conservative Protestant Minister and I disagree with him politically on many things, and the other day he made some comment to me in passing about hoping to get a funding bid decision and I deliberately said "Ishallah." He looked at me for a second or two and then said "Indeed." and walked on. I chalked that up as a tiny victory, that in that second or two he hopefully connected a "foreign" word that he may have heard spoken of in a negative or derogatory way with exactly what he believed in English.
posted by billiebee at 1:23 AM on February 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
personally i think it's great if insya-allah is in your common parlance, and i wouldn't find it appropriative, in fact you're welcome to it!
I'm really glad to hear this. I have done this for years, ever since I worked for an anti-racism charity alongside Muslim colleagues and clients, and realised it was basically the Arabic version of the "Please God" that my Irish Catholic Mum says all the time. "Bye Mum, talk to you tomorrow." "Please God." I don't think we should translate phrases to stop them being "alien", I think people should get used to hearing words in other languages and accept that English is not the only valid language just like Christianity is not the only valid religion. One of my bosses is a conservative Protestant Minister and I disagree with him politically on many things, and the other day he made some comment to me in passing about hoping to get a funding bid decision and I deliberately said "Ishallah." He looked at me for a second or two and then said "Indeed." and walked on. I chalked that up as a tiny victory, that in that second or two he hopefully connected a "foreign" word that he may have heard spoken of in a negative or derogatory way with exactly what he believed in English.
posted by billiebee at 1:23 AM on February 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
This. This is what we should all be striving for. It's so sad some have made these very words so feared.
I traveled to Turkey with a small group a few years ago. A very close friend who is Turkish took us to his family homes for meals and conversation. There I met his father who has become one of my favorite people. His father speaks little English and I speak *very* little Turkish. We were both eager to learn from each other and he taught me to say "mashallah" ("what ALLAH wanted has happened") when we all sit down to share a meal. Despite it being Arabic he was so very happy to have taught me this. Since then I've had the joy of meeting him several other times and we've come to say "Mashallah!!!" (yes, with the very emphasis three exclamation marks should imply) as our hello, good-bye, and everything good in between that I can't state in Turkish and he can't state in English.
These are moments of pure joy.
posted by brokeaspoke at 8:28 AM on February 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
I traveled to Turkey with a small group a few years ago. A very close friend who is Turkish took us to his family homes for meals and conversation. There I met his father who has become one of my favorite people. His father speaks little English and I speak *very* little Turkish. We were both eager to learn from each other and he taught me to say "mashallah" ("what ALLAH wanted has happened") when we all sit down to share a meal. Despite it being Arabic he was so very happy to have taught me this. Since then I've had the joy of meeting him several other times and we've come to say "Mashallah!!!" (yes, with the very emphasis three exclamation marks should imply) as our hello, good-bye, and everything good in between that I can't state in Turkish and he can't state in English.
These are moments of pure joy.
posted by brokeaspoke at 8:28 AM on February 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
As a Jew who is making a mindful effort to say blessings to bring my attention to the glory of everyday situations, I appreciate this greatly. Not the least of which because it's handily general and I always stumble on picking out the right blessing for the situation (I think the appropriate one for this situation is שככה לו בעולמו ? ). It's good to honor creation, and our own heritage.
posted by epanalepsis at 8:36 AM on February 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by epanalepsis at 8:36 AM on February 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
I'm kind of surprised that this is such a revelation to people. Do Americans really not know the defintion of Allahu Akbar? Maybe my experience as a Canadian is different, but I thought that this was common knowledge.
The other thing that jumped out at me was the surprise in the comments here in terms of its common usage. Maybe growing up in a small town plays into this, but I knew several people growing up (mostly from more ... for lack of a better word "extreme" religious traditions like baptists or pentecostals) who would think nothing of throwing out a quiet "god is great" now and then. In fact, the quoted case with the doe and the fawn is a perfect example. If you subbed out the language being spoken, that scene wouldn't have been out of place in my own childhood.
posted by TeaEarlGreyHot at 9:52 AM on February 14, 2017
The other thing that jumped out at me was the surprise in the comments here in terms of its common usage. Maybe growing up in a small town plays into this, but I knew several people growing up (mostly from more ... for lack of a better word "extreme" religious traditions like baptists or pentecostals) who would think nothing of throwing out a quiet "god is great" now and then. In fact, the quoted case with the doe and the fawn is a perfect example. If you subbed out the language being spoken, that scene wouldn't have been out of place in my own childhood.
posted by TeaEarlGreyHot at 9:52 AM on February 14, 2017
I don't have the impression that most people in this thread were confused, more just appreciative. But I have met many, many Americans who absolutely did not know what these words mean, or had strictly negative associations with them.
posted by epanalepsis at 10:10 AM on February 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by epanalepsis at 10:10 AM on February 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
« Older Big River | Where on earth has your Member of Congress gone? Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
posted by radicalawyer at 8:19 AM on February 13, 2017 [2 favorites]