"Kellyanne, that makes no sense."
February 14, 2017 7:46 AM   Subscribe

10 unanswered questions after Michael Flynn’s resignation: #1: What, if anything, did Trump authorize Flynn to tell the Russians before his inauguration? Today is day 26 of the Trump presidency; this morning, Matt Lauer eviscerated Kellyanne Conway on the Today show regarding the resignation of General Michael Flynn, which Paul Ryan is now claiming President Trump asked for. The AP is reporting that the North Korea leader's brother, Kim Jong Nam, was slain at airport in Malaysia, and Fox News is reporting that a Russian spy ship is patrolling off the East Coast of Delaware. posted by roomthreeseventeen (2790 comments total) 108 users marked this as a favorite
 
My god, we're only in week four.
posted by darkstar at 7:48 AM on February 14, 2017 [151 favorites]


This is US politics now. Short of a miracle in 2018 and 2020 involving the wholesale rejection of this conduct, the US body politic will be permanently deformed.
posted by Talez at 7:49 AM on February 14, 2017 [50 favorites]


looks like the Bannon faction in the white house has found their angle
posted by murphy slaw at 7:49 AM on February 14, 2017 [31 favorites]


Gosh, it's been so long since we've fed soldiers into a meat grinder. And look, my kids are approaching draftable age! Surely I'll be a proud parent as I send my child off to defend "freedom" or something.
posted by prepmonkey at 7:50 AM on February 14, 2017 [27 favorites]


"May you live in interesting times." indeed.
posted by INFJ at 7:50 AM on February 14, 2017 [13 favorites]


At least both the press conference(s) and this week's SNL re-enactments will be glorious.
posted by zombieflanders at 7:51 AM on February 14, 2017 [4 favorites]


Franco-American is apparently replacing him with another Rhode Island native, Robert Harward, so I've got that going for me, which is nice.
posted by Slap*Happy at 7:52 AM on February 14, 2017 [5 favorites]


11. Who's the next major official to go?
posted by tilde at 7:53 AM on February 14, 2017 [2 favorites]


That Today Show clip is what listening to Radio 4 felt like when I first moved to the UK: interviewers actually asking probing questions and holding their guests to account? Shocking stuff, having come from W's USA.
posted by rum-soaked space hobo at 7:53 AM on February 14, 2017 [27 favorites]


"looks like the Bannon faction in the white house has found their angle"

Who's Breitbart's White House source?

/s
posted by I-baLL at 7:53 AM on February 14, 2017 [28 favorites]


It's only Tuesday; there is sure to be something more nuts than this on Thursday or Friday for SNL to skewer.
posted by notyou at 7:53 AM on February 14, 2017 [4 favorites]


At least both the press conference(s) and this week's SNL re-enactments will be glorious.

SNL isn't back until March 4th.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:53 AM on February 14, 2017


Holy crap, Matt Lauer sems to have spontaneously grown a tiny piece of residual spine. Someone call the NBC surgeon and have it removed, stat!
posted by The Bellman at 7:53 AM on February 14, 2017 [25 favorites]


As long as the interview subject is female Matt Lauer has no problem going after her.
posted by saladin at 8:00 AM on February 14, 2017 [74 favorites]


Next to go has to be one (or more) of the WH's increasingly unpopular, ridiculed and ineffective propaganda mouthpieces: Sean Spicer, Kellyanne Conway and Stephen Miller.

I'm having difficulty remembering when a more obnoxiously punchable threesome was ever tasked with communicating anything to anybody, ever.
posted by darkstar at 8:00 AM on February 14, 2017 [21 favorites]


Millers more of a policy Nazi that gets drafted in, isn't he?
posted by Artw at 8:01 AM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


How radioactive is the corpse?
posted by Artw at 8:02 AM on February 14, 2017 [8 favorites]


Surely I'll be a proud parent as I send my child off to defend "freedom" or something.

This time it'll probably be “Judeo-Christian Traditional Values” or something equally fascistic sounding.
posted by acb at 8:02 AM on February 14, 2017 [6 favorites]


Kim Jong-Nam was, until now, best having known for having forfeited the post of hereditary God-Emperor of Best Korea to sneak out to Tokyo Disneyland. So it could be said that he died out of a love of Mickey Mouse.
posted by acb at 8:04 AM on February 14, 2017 [9 favorites]


Dennis Miller is apparently champing at the bit to play KellyAnne on SNL, and Rosie O'Donnel has herself made up like Steve Bannon as her Twitter avatar as an unsubtle hint she's onboard, too. March is going to be the single best month in SNL history if they follow through with this and bring back McCarthy as Spicer and have McKinnon as Stephen Miller.
posted by Slap*Happy at 8:04 AM on February 14, 2017 [13 favorites]


This Twitter account is just a bit on the spammy side, but they do raise an interesting question about the possibility of Trump "doing something really stupid in North Korea to divert attention."

Besides handling the news of NK's latest missile launch in front of everyone at dinner at Mar-A-Larceny?
posted by tommasz at 8:05 AM on February 14, 2017 [16 favorites]


From last thread:

the one real drawback to gerrymandering is that all those 60R:40D districts that result from shaping a couple of 10R:90D districts start looking really shaky during moderate swings in voter sentiment.

In places where there has been no mid-decade redistricting, the end-of decade elections are when the gerrymander starts to weaken: old people die, young people turn 18, people arrive and move away.
posted by holgate at 8:07 AM on February 14, 2017 [13 favorites]


My take based on current public info.

IC has managed to orchestrate the ousting of one of Trump's minions. They went for the one that was relatively easy as well as one that posed the biggest direct threat to national security and to their own ability to work. They also managed to take out a key loyalist to Trump and one of the pillars of his power base. That is going to hurt Trump.

Meanwhile it looks like the different factions vying for power in the WH are still at it. They sorta agree on the tack to take (it's media etc destabilizing) but will spin that to their own interests.

I expect that IC has more on Flynn. I expect that if he hadn't resigned we would have more Flynn 'leaks' in the coming days. Flynn likely suspects this, which is why he resigned or agreed to resign. There is more then just he lied to Pence as a reason he resigned. Now the WH is in full on damage control and trying to pre-discredit future leaks. Someone in there knows what could come down. IC is full on waging a cold war right now and they've won the first round. I

I expect there will be a bit of a pause on their part to see how Trumpco's response shapes out and how the power balance has changed in practice, because it has changed now. The question I have is if IC has plans where they could take him down (likely by picking other minions off) or if the plan is to kneecap him and reduce he and the minions power.
posted by Jalliah at 8:08 AM on February 14, 2017 [32 favorites]


Dennis Miller is apparently champing at the bit to play KellyAnne on SNL

Dennis Miller can go shit in his hat for all I care. That dude spent years frothing at the mouth as a Tea Party hero. Whatever his comedic background, he is dead to me.
posted by darkstar at 8:08 AM on February 14, 2017 [105 favorites]


So when do they start denying Flynn was ever part of the administration? Tomorrow?
posted by drezdn at 8:08 AM on February 14, 2017 [5 favorites]


Look, guys, I've got inauguration + 18 months in the quits or is forced out impeachment pool. You cannot start resigning in week four.
posted by zippy at 8:09 AM on February 14, 2017 [30 favorites]


OK, everybody set your alarms: White House Daily Briefing with Sean Spicer, 1:00 pm

I'm sure he'll be late as usual -- although this is perhaps not the best day to leave a bloodthirsty roomful of reporters twisting in the wind for too long.
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:09 AM on February 14, 2017 [3 favorites]


Jeet Heer in The New Republic:
By some accounts, a staff shakeup is exactly what the Trump administration needs. After all, it’s fairly common for new governments to get off to a rocky start until the president finds a team that gels. That was certainly true of presidents Jimmy Carter, Ronald Reagan, and Bill Clinton. Writing in Axios, Mike Allen predicted that Trump’s daughter Ivanka and son-in-law Jared Kushner “will outlast everyone. Many Republicans think the two will recognize the damage to Trump’s brand and their own—and help engineer a return to a more conventional West Wing.” Writing in Politico, Josh Dawsey and Alex Isenstadt suggest that Trump was “mulling an early staff shake-up.” To add to these rumors, Trump reportedly is meeting on Tuesday with New Jersey Governor Chris Christie, who has been hovering like a vulture in the hopes of returning to Trump’s inner circle.

The idea that a staff shake-up might bring order to a chaotic White House is superficially plausible, but crumbles on closer inspection. Unlike Carter, Reagan, and Clinton, Trump has no political or governmental experience whatsoever. His management style—fomenting chaos and insecurity among his subordinates so they compete to please him—might have served him well as an entertainer but less well in enterprises that involve more than performance and brand-burnishing. Hence Trump’s long string of business failures and bankruptcies in fields outside of entertainment and brand licensing.
posted by murphy slaw at 8:10 AM on February 14, 2017 [31 favorites]


Crap, not Dennis Miller, Dennis Leary wants to play KellyAnn. Dennis Miller died of the Brain Eater in September of 2001.
posted by Slap*Happy at 8:10 AM on February 14, 2017 [95 favorites]


In the basement of the White House, an intern sits, busily photoshopping Flynn out of all officially approved pictures...
posted by darkstar at 8:11 AM on February 14, 2017 [39 favorites]


Thanks for this new thread roomthreeseventeen!
can you add the "usa" tag to it?
posted by The_Auditor at 8:11 AM on February 14, 2017 [2 favorites]


Also, maybe you're thinking of Denis Leary wanting to play Conway?

Nope, gotta be Jon Lovitz as Tommy Flanagan. Yeah, that's the ticket!
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:11 AM on February 14, 2017 [23 favorites]


My arguments with my "traditionalist Catholic" mother have led me down a path I never would have expected.

Bannon is not some lone nutcase who came up with all this crazy stuff on his own. He represents a (currently out of favor!) faction within the Catholic church. And in a sense, what is happening right now is Catholic church internal politics escalating into American national politics, courtesy of Bannon.

WaPo:
How Pope Francis can cleanse the far-right rot from the Catholic Church


This article is pretty remarkable. Short version: it seems that while Pope Francis is pro-refugee and anti-border wall... Cardinal Burke (an American) is a bonafide member of the alt right, with deep ties to Bannon and Breitbart, and belief that Islam is not a religion but a political system like communism, poised to conquer Europe through immigration rather than invasion. He has been meeting with fascist-quoting Italian political party leaders behind Pope Francis's back, and clashing with Francis publically on a variety of issues. He has many followers, especially in the US, who respect his teachings more than Francis's. (My mom apparently is one!)

The links in that Washington Post article are just damning. The first one is to an article in Breitbart which quotes Burke saying that "Islam, through sharia, their law, will rule the world and permit violence against infidels, such as Christians. [...] Many people do not understand what Islam really is,” he added. “They create these slogans: we all believe in the same God, we are all united by love and so on. It’s not true.” "The problem is that Muslims aim for expansion,” he added. “The whole history of the Islamic presence in Europe is an attempt to conquer it.”"[...] "“Several times I have heard Islamists explaining: ‘What we failed to do with weapons in the past, we are doing today with birth rate and immigration.’ The population is changing. If this keeps up, in countries like Italy, the majority will be Muslim.”"

There is a link to an Italian source quoting Burke saying "capitulating to Islam would be the death of Christianity”. And also 'Burke says he is “very satisfied” with Russian autocrat Putin’s “defense of life and family” and believes he may have “converted” since his KGB days.'

Later it links to this amazing Guardinan story.
With this lede: "A powerful American cardinal who is engaged in a bitter feud with Pope Francis has met Matteo Salvini, the rightwing Italian nationalist who is a staunch supporter of Donald Trump and has praised Benito Mussolini."

And! the New York Times is also reporting on the Burke/Francis clash:
"Cardinal Burke has become a champion to conservatives in the United States. Under Mr. Bannon, Breitbart News urged its Rome correspondent to write sympathetically about him. And at a meeting before last month’s anti-abortion March for Life rally in Washington, Cardinal Burke received the Law of Life Achievement, or Nail award, a framed replica of the nail used to hold the feet of Christ to the cross. According to John-Henry Westen, the editor of Life Site News, who announced the award, the prize is awarded to Christians “who have received a stab in the back.”
For ease of reference, here's the NPR story on this I linked the other day. Which cites Breitbart headlines like " 'A Vatican Expert: Pope Francis a 'Friend of Islam' "

And that link someone else provided earlier about Bannon quoting Italian fascist philosopher Julius Evola, who inspired Richard Spencer's "Children of the Sun" language.

My mom is a big fan of Cardinal Burke. I now feel like she's in a cult, and he's the cult leader. And Bannon is in the same cult. And we've got some crazy cult guy running the country. Francis really does need to clean house.
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:13 AM on February 14, 2017 [279 favorites]


Crap, not Dennis Miller, Dennis Leary. Dennis Miller died of the Brain Eater in the September of 2001.

Nah, it was before that, when he was on Monday Night Football.
posted by Melismata at 8:13 AM on February 14, 2017 [3 favorites]


Oh look an R said something. Are pigs now flying?

GOP Senate Intel Member: Exhaustive investigation into Trump-Russia connections needed following Flynn resignation

(CNN)Republican Sen. Roy Blunt, a member of the Senate Intelligence Committee, on Tuesday called for an exhaustive investigation into connections between President Donald Trump and Russia and said the Intelligence Committee should immediately speak with former National Security Adviser Michael Flynn.

Flynn resigned Monday evening amid revelations that he misled Vice President Mike Pence about conversations he had in December with Russia's ambassador to the US about sanctions placed on Russia. Pence had defended Flynn on television and denied he discussed sanctions after initial reports of the conversations.
"I think everybody needs that investigation to happen," Blunt said on KTRS radio. "And the Senate Intelligence Committee, again that I serve on, has been given the principle responsibility to look into this, and I think that we should look into it exhaustively so that at the end of this process, nobody wonders whether there was a stone left unturned, and shouldn't reach conclusions before you have the information that you need to have to make those conclusions."

posted by Jalliah at 8:14 AM on February 14, 2017 [56 favorites]


"I hope the CIA and the Pope can save us" -- 2017 everybody, wubba lubba dub dub
posted by prize bull octorok at 8:16 AM on February 14, 2017 [199 favorites]


Dennis Leary! Hadn't heard that name in 20 years
posted by thelonius at 8:17 AM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


Oh look an R said something. Are pigs now flying?

Blunt was just re-elected. He doesn't have to worry about anything for almost six years.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:17 AM on February 14, 2017 [4 favorites]


GOP Senate Intel Member: Exhaustive investigation into Trump-Russia connections needed

That marks a turning point.
posted by diogenes at 8:18 AM on February 14, 2017 [5 favorites]




I expect there will be a bit of a pause on their part

Possibly. Perhaps the focus turns to Congress. You got Nunes and Chaffetz saying "he's out, nothing to investigate, la la la", while McCain/Graham make grumbly noises and Dem senators lose their shit, and if the IC wants to make the "no investigations" position untenable, it may seek ways to do so.
posted by holgate at 8:18 AM on February 14, 2017 [9 favorites]


Adding "Save us, Roy Blunt!" to the list, right after "Save us, Chinese environmental policy!"
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:19 AM on February 14, 2017 [60 favorites]


Oh look an R said something. Are pigs now flying?

So far, the only GOP members to complain are (1) in the Senate, while the House (under Nunes and Chaffetz) is responsible for investigations; and (2) not up for re-election in 2018.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:19 AM on February 14, 2017 [5 favorites]


Abbreviated conversation with my boyfriend just now:

Him: Trump should resign for lying to the American people. Didn't we have impeachment trials for Clinton for the same reason?
Me: No. They impeached Clinton for lying under oath.
Him: Bah! It's the same thing.
Me: As far as I know there's no line about telling the truth in the presidential oath of office.

Guys, I found the loophole. Let's close it.
posted by INFJ at 8:20 AM on February 14, 2017 [10 favorites]


<>That marks a turning point.

And maybe this.

Schiff: More info coming soon on Flynn-Russia ties

Rep. Adam Schiff (D-Calif.) told House Democrats Tuesday that the recent revelations about former National Security Adviser Mike Flynn's conversations with the Russians are only the beginning, and more information will surface in the coming days, according to multiple sources in a closed party meeting.

Schiff (D-Calif.), the top Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee, also said that any conversations that Flynn had with Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak before Donald Trump took office would not be covered by executive privilege, potentially making some information subject to congressional investigations.

posted by Jalliah at 8:20 AM on February 14, 2017 [53 favorites]


Oh look an R said something.

Eh, his kid's funnier.
posted by Etrigan at 8:22 AM on February 14, 2017 [8 favorites]


Are all comedians named Dennis awful?

The thing with Leary playing Conway is that the idea is based on a misconception of how Trumpian patriarchy works. The McCarthy as Spicer bit didn't get until Urmpt's skin because of gender-bent casting; instead, it was because a man was being played by a woman.

Having a man play Conway, especially a 90s-bro like Leary, would make Purmt like her more, not less.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 8:22 AM on February 14, 2017 [15 favorites]


My rep, Islamophobic shitbag Pete King, did tell CNN yesterday that he would like to see the transcripts of Flynn's calls. Which is a very small glimmer of light, a firefly at the bottom of a chasm.
posted by uncleozzy at 8:22 AM on February 14, 2017 [10 favorites]


The last 3 weeks have been probably the longest feeling of my adult life.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 8:23 AM on February 14, 2017 [97 favorites]


Zach Braff also angling for the Miller SNL gig.
posted by zakur at 8:23 AM on February 14, 2017 [3 favorites]


Casting a permanent Conway is tricky. Perhaps the way to go is to make the Conway role itself a rotating guest spot, with different actors all the time (like Catwoman or Bobby Draper), which you could then compare and contrast against some Platonic ideal of Conway impersonations.

Example: "John Goodman's Kellyanne was silly nonsense, of course, but it really did annoy Trump." "True, but I much prefer Steve Buscemi's grasp of her craziness, or Joe Pesci's fanaticism."
posted by Capt. Renault at 8:23 AM on February 14, 2017 [45 favorites]


I kinda wonder how many proud Republicans named their baby girls Kellyanne in the last few months and are starting to call them by their middle names now.
posted by Etrigan at 8:25 AM on February 14, 2017 [43 favorites]


The original phone taps - were they targeting the ambassador or Flynn? Were they a one off or is this an ongoing practice? Who ordered them? On what grounds?

Google fails me and I've not been following this closely, so any answers from those who have would be most appreciated.
posted by IndigoJones at 8:26 AM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]



Possibly. Perhaps the focus turns to Congress. You got Nunes and Chaffetz saying "he's out, nothing to investigate, la la la", while McCain/Graham make grumbly noises and Dem senators lose their shit, and if the IC wants to make the "no investigations" position untenable, it may seek ways to do so.


I know. It's all just speculation of course but it looks like they do have several different avenues to play with right now. WH has been pushed to full on defensive mode and I expect is going to fling and flail around trying to get back to some sort of solid offensive position. The 'omg look at all the leaks, omg bad' is them trying to do this.
posted by Jalliah at 8:26 AM on February 14, 2017


I expect that IC has more on Flynn. I expect that if he hadn't resigned we would have more Flynn 'leaks' in the coming days. Flynn likely suspects this, which is why he resigned or agreed to resign. There is more then just he lied to Pence as a reason he resigned. Now the WH is in full on damage control and trying to pre-discredit future leaks. Someone in there knows what could come down. IC is full on waging a cold war right now and they've won the first round.

I cant pretend like the sources im seeing it from are remotely verifiable, but there seems to be a strong current of "Pence stepped in and forced Flynn to resign" going around which would cut against this view.
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 8:26 AM on February 14, 2017 [2 favorites]


Dennis Leary wants to play KellyAnn.

This is the only time I've ever wondered if Denis Leary wasn't quite leathery and dessicated enough for a role.
posted by Strange Interlude at 8:27 AM on February 14, 2017 [81 favorites]


Schiff: More info coming soon on Flynn-Russia ties

Dear craven Republican lickspittles: you're gonna need a bigger boat.
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:27 AM on February 14, 2017 [3 favorites]


The cold light of day also brings new focus on the timing: the WH was told by Yates about DOJ's concerns three weeks ago, and the president was either ignorant of those concerns last Friday or part of the cover-up. And again, that only gets us as far back as late December.

Given that Flynn only resigned after the Ignatius WaPo story blew the doors off, and that the White House occupant is whining about leaks, those in the IC with their hair on fire may feel that there's no time to pause for reflection.
posted by holgate at 8:27 AM on February 14, 2017 [13 favorites]


oh god he's going to build a juche golfcourse

Consistent with the principles of juche, you start by forging your own irons and hewing your wood.
posted by zippy at 8:27 AM on February 14, 2017 [10 favorites]


so any answers from those who have would be most appreciated.

There's an entire subsite where you can Ask.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 8:27 AM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


I kinda wonder how many proud Republicans named their baby girls Kellyanne in the last few months and are starting to call them by their middle names now.

Ivanka's brand is tarnished, now, too.
posted by notyou at 8:27 AM on February 14, 2017 [6 favorites]


The one saving grace in this horror show of an administration is their sheer incompetence and the fact that they're wasting more energy fighting each other than fucking over the rest of us.
posted by Existential Dread at 8:28 AM on February 14, 2017 [52 favorites]


IIRC legally the NSA isn’t supposed to tap the phones of US citizens - but the phone of the Russian ambassador to the US? They’re going to target that 100% of the time.
posted by pharm at 8:29 AM on February 14, 2017 [9 favorites]


Now, for a good chuckle, there's this from the official WikiLeaks Twitter:
Trump's National Security Advisor Michael Flynn resigns after destabilization campaign by US spies, Democrats, press
posted by tommasz at 8:29 AM on February 14, 2017 [49 favorites]


"The problem is that Muslims aim for expansion,” he added. “The whole history of the Islamic presence in Europe is an attempt to conquer it.”

This literally made me snort my coffee. Beyond the fact that this is a flat-out lie about most Muslim immigrants... how can a prominent member of the Catholic Church say this with a straight face?

Are we sure his face wasn't twitching from the effects of cognitive dissonance?
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 8:29 AM on February 14, 2017 [73 favorites]


So far, I think every role in the SNL Trump administration is to be filled by a woman who was a Ghostbuster until proven that a man could do it better or is needed because there is, sadly, only one Kate McKinnon.

I am absolutely okay with this plan.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 8:29 AM on February 14, 2017 [60 favorites]


hot damn, vanity fair:
A source close to the president, who was not there but had knowledge of the situation, told me that Trump was going around tables during dinner asking guests what he should do about Priebus and Spicer
posted by murphy slaw at 8:30 AM on February 14, 2017 [134 favorites]


oh god he's going to build a juche golfcourse

Consistent with the principles of juche, you start by forging your own irons and hewing your wood.


Par is 34 so you always remember how much lesser you are than Kim Jong Il.
posted by Etrigan at 8:30 AM on February 14, 2017 [2 favorites]


Exceptional_Hubris: "I cant pretend like the sources im seeing it from are remotely verifiable, but there seems to be a strong current of "Pence stepped in and forced Flynn to resign" going around which would cut against this view."

I'm not usually a conspiracy guy, but Pence forcing Flynn to resign is not incompatible with a full court press by IC, and if anyone can run this whisper campaign and keep their hands relatively clean, it's them.
posted by TypographicalError at 8:30 AM on February 14, 2017 [8 favorites]


I cant pretend like the sources im seeing it from are remotely verifiable, but there seems to be a strong current of "Pence stepped in and forced Flynn to resign" going around which would cut against this view.

Sure. That would only change it being Flynn seeing what was coming, not that Pence or others didn't have an inkling or straight up knowledge of what is out there on Flynn and potentially others and decided he needed to try to stop it from going further.
posted by Jalliah at 8:31 AM on February 14, 2017


I am really wishing right now that I was the antacid supplier to the Trump White House. #showmethemoney
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:32 AM on February 14, 2017 [7 favorites]


The original phone taps - were they targeting the ambassador or Flynn? Were they a one off or is this an ongoing practice? Who ordered them? On what grounds?

The Patriot Act makes it legal, if not actual policy, to record the communications of any foreign agents with Americans. Which, as some have noted, is the kind of thing that House Intelligence Committee Chairman Devin Nunes (who is currently shutting down investigations of Flynn) should be aware of, especially since he's actively pushed for expansion of said policies.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:33 AM on February 14, 2017 [11 favorites]


I am really wishing right now that I was the antacid supplier to the Trump White House. #showmethemoney

Somebody, somewhere, is writing a play from the perspective of one of these staffer's therapists.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:33 AM on February 14, 2017 [9 favorites]


tommasz: "Now, for a good chuckle, there's this from the official WikiLeaks Twitter:
Trump's National Security Advisor Michael Flynn resigns after destabilization campaign by US spies, Democrats, press

Wikileaks isn't even bothering to try sounding like anything but Russian propaganda at this point.
posted by octothorpe at 8:34 AM on February 14, 2017 [79 favorites]


to record the communications of any foreign agents

Ha, that still doesn't clarify whether Flynn or the Russian ambassador was the target.
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:36 AM on February 14, 2017 [15 favorites]


would make Purmt like her

Can we not do this? Actually reality is hard enough to take in without randomly switching the names around.
posted by Dr Dracator at 8:36 AM on February 14, 2017 [42 favorites]


For fuck's sake, nobody who announces publicly that they want to play someone on SNL should be allowed to be on SNL. That's like posting a Facebook status and asking people to like and share it.

Let the writers and Lorne decide. They know the show pretty well.
posted by bondcliff at 8:37 AM on February 14, 2017 [24 favorites]


I still want Iggy Pop to play KellyAnne
posted by pxe2000 at 8:37 AM on February 14, 2017 [149 favorites]


oh god he's going to build a juche golf course isnt he

nah, they already have one
posted by indubitable at 8:37 AM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


going around tables during dinner asking guests what he should do about Priebus and Spicer

There's no specific Greek term for government by leathery Florida dentists and real-estate developers who spend enough on lawn care to cover people's health insurance, and swap out their wives for a newer model every five years, but there will be.
posted by holgate at 8:40 AM on February 14, 2017 [18 favorites]


Ha, that still doesn't clarify whether Flynn or the Russian ambassador was the target.

The reports so far seem to indicate that the ambassador was. For instance, here's the Post:
Neither of those assertions is consistent with the fuller account of Flynn’s contacts with Kislyak provided by officials who had access to reports from U.S. intelligence and law enforcement agencies that routinely monitor the communications of Russian diplomats.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:40 AM on February 14, 2017


a rotating guest spot, with different actors all the time (like Catwoman or Bobby Draper)

Okay so I maybe had a tiny little confused panic but I am pretty sure you mean the serial philanderer's son and not the Martian gunnery sergeant. Deep breaths...
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:40 AM on February 14, 2017 [14 favorites]


From that Vanity Fair link:

The mood tensed slightly, however, as guests became apprised of the Trump administration’s first foreign crisis. Not long after Trump and Abe’s theatrical entrance, North Korea test-fired a ballistic test missile into the Sea of Japan, sending shock waves across both the region and the international community. It was a chilling reminder of the grave threat presented by the opaque North Korean state. But it wasn’t enough to totally ruin dinner.

At first I thought this sounded like something from a Jean Renoir film, but ultimately its surrealist edge makes it more of a Luis Bunuel thing.
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:41 AM on February 14, 2017 [62 favorites]


There's got to be dirt connecting Cardinal Burke to one of the various cover-ups of molestation. Please let there be some folks investigating this!
posted by Strange_Robinson at 8:47 AM on February 14, 2017 [10 favorites]


Secret Service director to step down, giving Trump chance to select his own security chief

Just in case any of you felt you were getting too giddy over Flynn.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:47 AM on February 14, 2017 [18 favorites]


IC has managed to orchestrate the ousting of one of Trump's minions.

I see no reference to "IC" in this thread other than this comment. Is it too much to ask that one spell out the meaning of arcane abbreviations at least ONCE before littering a comment with references to it?
posted by pjern at 8:48 AM on February 14, 2017 [52 favorites]


That was no “evisceration”. That was a “harsh grilling”. Let’s keep our exaggerated metaphors straight.
posted by Going To Maine at 8:48 AM on February 14, 2017 [4 favorites]


Oh oh oh, get Petraeus confirmed but also get him an aggressive journalist girlfriend with a tight book contract.
posted by sammyo at 8:49 AM on February 14, 2017 [16 favorites]


Alexandra Petri at WaPo
The Trump administration is doing exactly what I do when I try to assemble Ikea furniture, in the sense that it has clearly not consulted any instructions and now before it has finished its cabinet a big piece has fallen off.
posted by murphy slaw at 8:50 AM on February 14, 2017 [192 favorites]


Secret Service director to step down, giving Trump chance to select his own security chief

Just in case any of you felt you were getting too giddy over Flynn.


The Worst Fears lobe of my brain says Erik Prince.
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:50 AM on February 14, 2017 [29 favorites]


Well, this should be fun: Russian Cruise Missile, Deployed Secretly, Violates Treaty, Officials Say
posted by jferg at 8:50 AM on February 14, 2017 [14 favorites]


I see no reference to "IC" in this thread other than this comment.

Intelligence community, the catchall for all the different spook houses in DC
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:51 AM on February 14, 2017 [8 favorites]


I see no reference to "IC" in this thread other than this comment. Is it too much to ask that one spell out the meaning of arcane abbreviations at least ONCE before littering a comment with references to it?

IC == Intelligence Community
posted by mmascolino at 8:51 AM on February 14, 2017 [3 favorites]


More here on the full-court Intelligence Community press, some of which may have contributed to the ouster of Flynn, but be warned, there is speculation that the NSA is actually withholding:

A senior National Security Agency official explained that NSA was systematically holding back some of the “good stuff” from the White House, in an unprecedented move. For decades, NSA has prepared special reports for the president’s eyes only, containing enormously sensitive intelligence. In the last three weeks, however, NSA has ceased doing this, fearing Trump and his staff cannot keep their best SIGINT secrets.

Not good, folks, if true.
posted by eclectist at 8:52 AM on February 14, 2017 [18 favorites]


Not long after Trump and Abe’s theatrical entrance, North Korea test-fired a ballistic test missile into the Sea of Japan, sending shock waves across both the region and the international community.

Just started listening to the most recent Pod Save America podcast (Jons Favreau and Lovett, Dan Pfeiffer and Tommy Vietor), titled "C’mon, Shinzo… they’ve paid me a fortune!" and it's incredible the difference in handling of sensitive information/situations between the Obama and Trump admins. When on the road in an unsecured location, Obama and crew would retreat to specially dedicated hotel rooms with what's basically a tent inside to protect against hidden cameras, noise machines to drown out any listening microphones, etc.

Trump asks his friends to shine their cell phone camera lights on sensitive docs.
posted by Existential Dread at 8:52 AM on February 14, 2017 [66 favorites]


The Worst Fears lobe of my brain says Erik Prince.

How many members of the same family (or families) can be on the same cabinet?
posted by Strange Interlude at 8:53 AM on February 14, 2017 [4 favorites]




I called Chaffetz' office this morning (I live in his district part-time) and the staffer who answered the phone actually argued with me, which was interesting. She seemed to really want to persuade me that Chaffetz, in his capacity as Chair of the House Oversight Committee, wasn't going to pursue the Flynn/Russia line of inquiry because it didn't comport with the Committee's "waste, fraud and abuse" mission and that I should call Rep. Nunes, chair of the House Intelligence Committee, instead because that's where the pertinent authority on threats to national security rested.

I replied that this rationale would be more plausible if it were consistent with the reasons Chaffetz gave today re: executive privilege and Flynn's resignation and pointed out that Chaffetz, just a few weeks ago, vowed to continue the investigations into Hillary's emails on national security grounds, so he wasn't being consistent there either. The response: Hillary never resigned. Me: Sure she did, in early 2013 and that's why John Kerry became SOS, so under Chaffetz' rationale of today, the email investigation should have been dropped. We argued about that for awhile, but eventually she conceded, which was nice.

So I asked if I could count on Chaffetz urging Nunes to pursue the investigation to its conclusion, regardless of where it lead, especially since he said back in November that he would hold the next administration's feet to the fire (of course, he thought it would be HRC in the big chair). I didn't get an answer, but she promised to pass on that request. My parting words concerned the importance of Chaffetz not behaving like a party hack--especially since he is already on record as stating that his Town Hall was disrupted by paid provocateurs which makes him appear willfully ignorant--which will not play well in 2018.

I really did appreciate being engaged. My experience with my Wisconsin federal elected officials is that they just pretend to take dictation.
posted by carmicha at 8:54 AM on February 14, 2017 [145 favorites]


there seems to be a strong current of "Pence stepped in and forced Flynn to resign"

There's definitely a desire to paint Pence as the good guy (with clean hands) right now.
posted by diogenes at 8:54 AM on February 14, 2017 [11 favorites]




Secret Service director to step down, giving Trump chance to select his own security chief

Just in case any of you felt you were getting too giddy over Flynn.

The Worst Fears lobe of my brain says Erik Prince.


If there's anyone who'd be willing to put a bullet through Trump to get Pence onto the golden throne, it's Erik Prince. He won't get anywhere near the job.
posted by Etrigan at 8:55 AM on February 14, 2017 [5 favorites]


Mod note: Folks, general note: one-line comments with links to tweets of every tiny update/random junk fill up these threads and make them load slower. Please be judicious.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 8:57 AM on February 14, 2017 [25 favorites]


11. Who's the next major official to go?

Tossup between Spicer and Preibus.
posted by Theta States at 8:57 AM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


Is "Kellyanne, that makes no sense," this generation's "Jane, you ignorant slut"?
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 8:58 AM on February 14, 2017 [36 favorites]


The White House is now conforming Paul Ryan's story. White House Official: Flynn Was Asked To Resign: Former National Security Adviser Michael Flynn was asked to resign, a White House official told TPM on Tuesday.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:58 AM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


11. Who's the next major official to go?

White House Counsel McGahn?
posted by ghharr at 8:59 AM on February 14, 2017 [3 favorites]


In the last three weeks, however, NSA has ceased doing this, fearing Trump and his staff cannot keep their best SIGINT secrets.

Not good, folks, if true.


I concur, but if the only alternative at present is to have it spread across greasy prime rib plates at the fucking country club and posted on Instagram, it may be the better option, god help us all. Seriously, even without the massive ongoing Russia debacle, the 500 clearly documented lapses in basic, first-grade-level info security, violations of Presidential Records Act, etc., are mind-boggling.
posted by FelliniBlank at 9:00 AM on February 14, 2017 [26 favorites]


The White House is now conforming Paul Ryan's story. White House Official: Flynn Was Asked To Resign

So the official line is Moon Door for Flynn.
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:00 AM on February 14, 2017 [8 favorites]


"Please hand in your resignation!!" - Donald Trump, The Apprentice
posted by theodolite at 9:00 AM on February 14, 2017 [29 favorites]




Guy just looks like the villain for war character from a movie. Yah, judgment based on appearance; and yah; so movies typecast character actors. Shame everywhere!
posted by buzzman at 9:01 AM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


republicans in congress are like "for the love of God, don, can you just hold it together long enough for us to get rid of medicare and social security? is that too much to ask?"
posted by murphy slaw at 9:02 AM on February 14, 2017 [86 favorites]


The White House is now conforming Paul Ryan's story. White House Official: Flynn Was Asked To Resign

So the official line is Moon Door for Flynn.

Dang it Flynn doesn’t deserve to hang out with Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin.
posted by Going To Maine at 9:03 AM on February 14, 2017 [3 favorites]


Well, this should be fun: Russian Cruise Missile, Deployed Secretly, Violates Treaty, Officials Say

Fuuuuuuuuuuuu.

My big fear, the way this story is going, is that if the wolves start circling and the leaks tying Trump to Russia get more and more incriminating and verified, he'll turn on Putin and start some insane war to distract us.

"See, no puppet. Puppets don't bomb their puppet masters!"
posted by dis_integration at 9:03 AM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


The White House is now conforming Paul Ryan's story. White House Official: Flynn Was Asked To Resign: Former National Security Adviser Michael Flynn was asked to resign, a White House official told TPM on Tuesday.

Now let's see if any members of the press jump on this, seeing as how the acting Attorney General who relayed this information to Trump et al three weeks ago was fired less than 24 hours after she did so.
posted by zombieflanders at 9:03 AM on February 14, 2017 [35 favorites]



He must also hate the White House with its cramped non gold shitters.


You gotta figure within the next month he'll start just staying in Florida instead of taking weekend trips.
posted by ghharr at 9:06 AM on February 14, 2017 [19 favorites]


I wanted to share this idea my wife and I had, to help our mental well-being. In honor of Trump's "two regulations out for every new regulation in" policy, we have a new "tell two good things for every bad thing" rule. It had seemed like when we sat to talk everything was overwhelmingly depressing. We found that if we made a conscious effort to remember 2 good stories (national news, or about friends/relatives, or our day) before ranting about the latest way Trump was trying to destroy everything, the good things were actually there! and if we make ourselves focus on two happy things before letting ourselves dive into the heartbreaking news of the day, it helps us generally feel better.

It may not work for everyone. There is a LOT of bad going on. But, you don't have to talk about ALL of the bad ALL the time. And if you just stop for a minute and look for the good, you may surprise yourself how much good is actually going on.
posted by jermsplan at 9:06 AM on February 14, 2017 [119 favorites]


New HHS rule: employees must receive written authorization from an agency ethics official in order to accept an unsolicited offer of free attendance to a widely attended gathering.

WAG defined as anything with a large number of persons. Large remaining undefined. So some poor office is about to get several dozen passive aggressive emails per research seminar. I get something like four a day, and I did not put my name onto any extra mailing lists.

RIP ethics office email clients.
posted by Slackermagee at 9:07 AM on February 14, 2017 [18 favorites]


Whoops, relevance being that Tom Price just took over and this reeks of someone who has never set foot on a research campus.
posted by Slackermagee at 9:08 AM on February 14, 2017 [17 favorites]



Now let's see if any members of the press jump on this, seeing as how the acting Attorney General who relayed this information to Trump et al three weeks ago was fired less than 24 hours after she did so.


I watched some MSNBC and CNN last night and this morning. They've been talking about this over and over. Even Matt Lauer was all of Conway about the WH knowing three weeks ago.
posted by Jalliah at 9:08 AM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


In honor of Trump's "two regulations out for every new regulation in" policy, we have a new "tell two good things for every bad thing" rule.

We're going to run out of kittens/puppies/baby sloths.
posted by acb at 9:09 AM on February 14, 2017 [10 favorites]




Okay, everybody who kept saying how horrible it is to elect "Washington Insiders" - this is the kind of thing that happens when you put people in power who don't understand how government works, and thinks you can just stop in there and run things any old way you feel like.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 9:11 AM on February 14, 2017 [142 favorites]


I heard the Groupies Of Putin have a new motto: "Espionage? Treason? IOKIYAR!"
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:12 AM on February 14, 2017 [9 favorites]


this is the kind of thing that happens when you put people in power who don't understand how government works, and thinks you can just stop in there and run things any old way you feel like.

In fairness, I wouldn't trust them to run a 7/11 either.
posted by Artw at 9:13 AM on February 14, 2017 [66 favorites]


republicans in congress are like “for the love of God, don, can you just hold it together long enough for us to get rid of medicare and social security? is that too much to ask?”

Things is: if Trump resigns or is impeached, the Rs still hold both houses and the Presidency, which makes one fear that an unravelling of all the secrets would lead to more substantial issues.
posted by Going To Maine at 9:14 AM on February 14, 2017


I've always thought the perfect KellyAnn stand-in would be the Queen from Aliens.
posted by SPrintF at 9:14 AM on February 14, 2017 [6 favorites]


Buzzfeed: US Allies In Europe Have No Idea "What The Fuck Is Going On" With The Trump Administration: “I was hoping you could tell me what the fuck is going on over there,” said one European Union intelligence official who, like the other officials contacted, declined to speak about such a diplomatically sensitive situation on the record.

“There’s no guide for handling this sort of situation, happening with such an important and powerful ally,” the official said. “If anything, it’s a wake up call to European leaders that counting on America isn’t currently a smart policy. Of course this is exactly what Putin wants — to destabilize the Atlantic alliance — but I have to counsel my policymakers the best I can and right now it’s, ‘Prepare to handle some crises without US support.’”
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:14 AM on February 14, 2017 [105 favorites]


Things is: if Trump resigns or is impeached, the Rs still hold both houses and the Presidency, which makes one fear that an unravelling of all the secrets would lead to more substantial issues.

Trump is a self-torching Reichstag.
posted by acb at 9:15 AM on February 14, 2017 [19 favorites]


I'm a little surprised that Republicans aren't leaving themselves more wiggle room in their statements about Flynn right now. Some of them seem to be betting their careers on this not going deeper, and that doesn't seem like a wise bet. I expect cravenness, but I thought their sense of self-preservation would cause them to at least remain silent or speak more ambiguously.

In particular I'm looking at the statements coming from Nunes (Chairman of the House Intelligence Committee) and Chaffetz.

Maybe they are confident that their gerrymandered districts are 100% safe? I guess we're going to find out.
posted by diogenes at 9:15 AM on February 14, 2017 [14 favorites]


From the CNN article above: Lindsey Graham said "And I want to know, 'Did General Flynn do this by himself or was he directed by somebody to do it?'"
posted by diogenes at 9:18 AM on February 14, 2017 [36 favorites]


The House can stonewall all they want, but if the Senate goes forward with real investigations, members of the House are eventually going to be in an unsustainable position.
posted by diogenes at 9:20 AM on February 14, 2017 [6 favorites]


Quite obviously Tina Fey needs to return to SNL for the Conway cameo. Remember, she's the one who virtually single-handedly destroyed Palin?

I know it's a trivial point but it needs saying.
posted by spitbull at 9:21 AM on February 14, 2017 [6 favorites]


Oh hey guys, the NYT reports that the White House comments line finally re-opened yesterday. 202-456-1111

I wonder how long that will last.
posted by FelliniBlank at 9:21 AM on February 14, 2017 [15 favorites]


It this point in time I think some of the Senators that are in safe GOP states and unlikely to face a primary from the right anytime soon are actually okay with an investigation taking down Trump at this point.

Pence is the guy that most of the GOP actually want to deal with. Yeah he's a total theocrat but he's completely predictable and more importantly less likely to result in the GOP facing an implosion in 2018 and 2020.
posted by vuron at 9:21 AM on February 14, 2017 [2 favorites]


"And I want to know, 'Did General Flynn do this by himself or was he directed by somebody to do it?'"

And there we have it: a senior Senator from the President's party asking (basically) the question: What did the President know, and when did he know it?

Day 26.
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:23 AM on February 14, 2017 [122 favorites]


Oh hey guys, the NYT reports that the White House comments line finally re-opened yesterday. 202-456-1111

"Your call cannot be completed at this time. Please try again later. " Over and over.
posted by carmicha at 9:24 AM on February 14, 2017 [5 favorites]


Okay, everybody who kept saying how horrible it is to elect "Washington Insiders" - this is the kind of thing that happens when you put people in power who don't understand how government works, and thinks you can just stop in there and run things any old way you feel like.

This is the gold standard now for why we don't elect someone with zero political experience.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:24 AM on February 14, 2017 [13 favorites]


Well, this should be fun: Russian Cruise Missile, Deployed Secretly, Violates Treaty, Officials Say

We are all going to die.
posted by zachlipton at 9:25 AM on February 14, 2017 [5 favorites]


Kim Jong-Nam was, until now, best having known for having forfeited the post of hereditary God-Emperor of Best Korea to sneak out to Tokyo Disneyland. So it could be said that he died out of a love of Mickey Mouse.

Geez, now I'm starting to like this guy. Sounds like he got the brains in the family.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 9:25 AM on February 14, 2017 [5 favorites]


so at this point if trump serves out his full term we don't have a functioning democracy anymore, right?
posted by murphy slaw at 9:25 AM on February 14, 2017 [7 favorites]


Who in the administration is IC? Did I miss a confirmation hearing?
posted by Carillon at 9:26 AM on February 14, 2017


(God it'll be Ollie North all over again.)

School House Rock for people who weren't born before 1980
posted by Talez at 9:26 AM on February 14, 2017 [44 favorites]


And there we have it: a senior Senator from the President's party asking (basically) the question: What did the President know, and when did he know it?

Yea, but it's NeverTrumper Lindsey Graham, he hardly counts. It's not like he's going to actually do anything about any of this.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:26 AM on February 14, 2017 [6 favorites]


Graham's question is the obvious one. Flynn was working for the Trump campaign, not as DNSC, when he made that call.

My theory is that Flynn and Manafort were both "minders" for Dimwit Dumbwood, there to make snarly sounds about what Russia had on him if he got too cocky.

And since it is Valentine's Day, let's all remember that good old "I need 3, no 5, no 8 million dollars for recounts" Stein was at that dinner with Flynn and Putin.

How deep does it go? Time for some pushback on the conspiracy theory rhetorical device from the Resistance.

Who paid Comey?
posted by spitbull at 9:26 AM on February 14, 2017 [11 favorites]


I'm a little surprised that Republicans aren't leaving themselves more wiggle room in their statements about Flynn right now. Some of them seem to be betting their careers on this not going deeper, and that doesn't seem like a wise bet. I expect cravenness, but I thought their sense of self-preservation would cause them to at least remain silent or speak more ambiguously.

The easiest explanation is incompetence. A somewhat more disturbing possibility is that some of these Republicans know for a fact that it does go deeper, because they're complicit, and they're betting their careers that no one finds out because they literally have no other choice now. This is the sort of conspiracy-theorist thinking I normally shy away from, but 2017 has broken my ability to properly reality-test.
posted by biogeo at 9:27 AM on February 14, 2017 [44 favorites]


This is the 14 karat gold-plated standard now for why we don't elect someone with zero political experience.

posted by murphy slaw at 9:27 AM on February 14, 2017 [21 favorites]


trump's (I lower case his name) connection to Russia can only be fully known with the release of his income taxes. He refuses to do this, after saying he would release them after the election.
posted by Postroad at 9:28 AM on February 14, 2017 [9 favorites]


Yea, but it's NeverTrumper Lindsey Graham, he hardly counts. It's not like he's going to actually do anything about any of this.

Eventually, one of these gomers is going to see which direction the crowd is going and jump out in front to "lead" it.
posted by Etrigan at 9:28 AM on February 14, 2017 [23 favorites]


I wonder if one way to fight Kellyane's interview dodging would be, as in this Vox video, to be able to immediately display the text of her answer and point out how it didn't answer the question. I think a clear, visual illustration like that might help viewers be less fooled by what she's doing. As it is, an interviewer can tell her she didn't answer a question, but her words have already slithered into the ether and she doesn't have to really own them.
posted by little onion at 9:29 AM on February 14, 2017 [25 favorites]


Well, this should be fun: Russian Cruise Missile, Deployed Secretly, Violates Treaty, Officials Say

We are all going to die.


Nah. Remember when the Taiwan call meant we were going to war with China? And Bannon went on record saying he expects war in the South China Sea? And then last week Trump meekly buckled to Xi Jinping's demands and said that he would abide by the One China policy.

Trump is a classic bully. Bluster and punching down, but backs down when challenged by a bigger bully.
posted by Existential Dread at 9:30 AM on February 14, 2017 [21 favorites]


The ever-eloquent Lindy West:
Today, during my morning routine of opening my laptop, clicking on literally anything, and just screaming and screaming, I made the astonishing discovery that Donald Trump has only been president of the United States for about three weeks. Which is weird, because I could have sworn we had fallen through a tesseract into the airless crush of a two-dimensional void at least seven eternities ago, or what would have constituted seven eternities if such a place had a linear concept of time. Turns out, though, it has only been 25 days, we are still on earth, and every cell in my body has not been excruciatingly flattened into pure math. It just feels like it.

It’s an understandable mistake, I think. Trump has really been eat-pray-loving his way through his first month as the most dangerous man on earth, seeding so many potential atrocities – including, perhaps, the breakdown of the republic itself – that human consciousness has been reduced to a panicked blur, a zoetrope of galloping despair. There are simply too many emergencies to hold all of them in your mind at once. Cecily Strong captured the feeling on this week’s Saturday Night Live: “Let me just say, you’re doing too much. I want one day without a CNN alert that scares the hell out of me.”
I must take issue with the fly thing, however. Our Dipteran friends are noble, beautiful, diverse and majestic creatures, totally unlike Donald Trump.
posted by byanyothername at 9:31 AM on February 14, 2017 [79 favorites]


Yea, but it's NeverTrumper Lindsey Graham, he hardly counts. It's not like he's going to actually do anything about any of this.

I don't know, I think we're close to having enough Republican Senators asking for Flynn to testify. And it's only the morning after he resigned.
posted by diogenes at 9:31 AM on February 14, 2017 [6 favorites]


. I think a clear, visual illustration like that might help viewers be less fooled by what she's doing

OMG there may be a non-trivial use-case for genius.com?
posted by spitbull at 9:32 AM on February 14, 2017 [6 favorites]


Well, this should be fun: Russian Cruise Missile, Deployed Secretly, Violates Treaty, Officials Say

We are all going to die.

Nah. Remember when the Taiwan call meant we were going to war with China? And Bannon went on record saying he expects war in the South China Sea? And then last week Trump meekly buckled to Xi Jinping's demands and said that he would abide by the One China policy.


Also, and I know this is a very weird sort of comforting, one new cruise missile doesn't alter the balance of power in any meaningful way. Mutual Assured Destruction is still as much in effect as it was two weeks ago, and two years ago, and so on.
posted by the phlegmatic king at 9:32 AM on February 14, 2017 [4 favorites]


John Goodman's Kellyanne was silly nonsense, of course, but it really did annoy Trump." "True, but I much prefer Steve Buscemi's grasp of her craziness, or Joe Pesci's fanaticism."

The silliness of Goodman, the craziness of Buscemi, and the fanaticism of Pesci? Sounds like a job for Christopher Walken.
posted by Room 641-A at 9:33 AM on February 14, 2017 [30 favorites]


A somewhat more disturbing possibility is that some of these Republicans know for a fact that it does go deeper, because they're complicit, and they're betting their careers that no one finds out because they literally have no other choice now.

The human mind is excellent at rationalisation. Assuming that the Russians have kompromat on enough well-positioned Republicans to maintain power, if they only subtly remind them of that, it'll make it easier for them to sincerely believe that they're allied with Russia because of a shared belief in traditional values and hostility to decadent liberalism. And once they're deep enough, they're no more going to break ranks than a Scientologist who threw a quarter of a million into the hole just to find out it was Galactic Overlord Xenu.
posted by acb at 9:33 AM on February 14, 2017 [4 favorites]


“The whole history of the Islamic presence in Europe is an attempt to conquer it.”

How soon we have forgotten The Crusades.
posted by archimago at 9:34 AM on February 14, 2017 [52 favorites]



"And I want to know, 'Did General Flynn do this by himself or was he directed by somebody to do it?'"

And there we have it: a senior Senator from the President's party asking (basically) the question: What did the President know, and when did he know it?

Day 26.


Nah, this is a setup for Flynn to fall on the sword, Ollie North Style, and pre-empt further investigation. Remember ole Ollie had a looong and very lucrative Wingnut Welfare career post-Iran-Contra investigation. I'm sure that Gen. Flynn will "do his Republican duty" and then jump into the waiting arms of some high-paying consultancy or think-tank position already being prepped for him...
posted by Chrischris at 9:35 AM on February 14, 2017 [25 favorites]


Mutual Assured Destruction is still as much in effect as it was two weeks ago, and two years ago, and so on.

Didn't Trump sack the contractors involved in maintaining the US nuclear arsenal? What was that all about?
posted by acb at 9:36 AM on February 14, 2017


(my code name for him is MANGO)

as in Mango Manchurian Candidate
posted by waitangi at 9:36 AM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


I've always thought the perfect KellyAnn stand-in would be the Queen from Aliens.

Here's a meme for you.
posted by zakur at 9:38 AM on February 14, 2017 [3 favorites]



some high-paying consultancy or think-tank position

Or like Ollie "Who Me?" North, a lovely weekly romp in self-marketing on FOX News.
posted by spitbull at 9:38 AM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


New HHS rule: employees must receive written authorization from an agency ethics official in order to accept an unsolicited offer of free attendance to a widely attended gathering.

Not new. WAG clearance has always been required, and is government wide.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 9:39 AM on February 14, 2017 [3 favorites]


Nah, this is a setup for Flynn to fall on the sword, Ollie North Style

And Flynn has an advantage over North in that Trump has been acting senile in public for years, whereas Reagan was relatively new at it.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 9:40 AM on February 14, 2017 [3 favorites]


Im all for tax returns but...would he have reported any illegal Russian money? Not to say that he wouldn't have some traceable stuff, but if you're committing treason it seems silly to report it annually.
posted by Brainy at 9:40 AM on February 14, 2017 [6 favorites]


Who paid Comey?

There is still the possibility that Comey sent that letter to pre-empt leaks from the New York FBI office, which was apparently (for reasons I don't understand, still... Something to do with Guiliani?) in the tank for Trump.

Better, he may have thought, a measured and restrained letter simply notifying congress about an investigation and making it clear that it might be nothing, than a leak which implied something else...

I don't have a lot of evidence that Comey is one of the Grown Ups In the Room (or that there are any Grown Ups in the Room). Just the fact that Obama kept him around, the fact that in spite of his public scolding, he actually cleared Clinton of any actual wrongdoing, and the fact that he supposedly intervened to stop a plan to bypass the required approvals for the Bush-era wiretapping programs. And... the fact that these leaks keep happening, and now Flynn is out... But those facts give me a bit of hope that he is actually a professional, and might really be investigating this Russia stuff.

So along with hoping for the Pope, the CIA, Chinese environmental policy, and Roy Blunt to save us, I am hoping Comey will help save us too. Hey, I take my hope where I can get it!
posted by OnceUponATime at 9:40 AM on February 14, 2017 [19 favorites]


Secret Service director to step down, giving Trump chance to select his own security chief

Just in case any of you felt you were getting too giddy over Flynn.


Suits me just fine, really. The SS exists to be Hollywood's enforcement arm and protect the president. Making them more incompetent in the first is hunky-dory with me since I think it's fucking BS to have them handling what should be a civil matter. Making them more incompetent at protecting the president and his family... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I'm cool with him making that call for himself, though it worries me if they make the Obama detail less effective.

And yeah, I know they don't like to be called the SS. I'm not using that by accident.
posted by phearlez at 9:40 AM on February 14, 2017 [2 favorites]


“The whole history of the Islamic presence in Europe is an attempt to conquer it.”

How soon we have forgotten The Crusades.


And the Holocaust....
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 9:40 AM on February 14, 2017 [13 favorites]


I wonder if one way to fight Kellyane's interview dodging would be, as in this Vox video, to be able to immediately display the text of her answer and point out how it didn't answer the question.

I think the next time someone interviews her, they should just ask her stupid questions that don't relate to politics. Like ask her about unicorns. While looking at their phone.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:41 AM on February 14, 2017 [37 favorites]


My arguments with my "traditionalist Catholic" mother have led me down a path I never would have expected

Which reminds me that my partner's mother, also a staunch, "traditional" Catholic, is fully on board with RaHoWa. Between that and the child molestation, the Church really has a lot to answer for, especially in the US.

Crap, not Dennis Miller, Dennis Leary.

You know, if SNL just does a full-on "Rule 64" gender swap with the Trump staff, that would blunt the usual unfunniness (and cruelty) of the "man-in-a-dress" gag. In this scenario, they really should let Leslie Jones play Trump. But I don't know who Baldwin would play.
posted by tobascodagama at 9:43 AM on February 14, 2017 [3 favorites]


Not new. WAG clearance has always been required, and is government wide.

Someone should let HHS know because the words "new rule" were used three times.
posted by Slackermagee at 9:43 AM on February 14, 2017 [3 favorites]


acb: "Didn't Trump sack the contractors involved in maintaining the US nuclear arsenal? What was that all about?"

I think you're probably thinking about this incident. The tl;dr is "not exactly". The slightly longer version is that the incompetent buffoons in the new administration apparently didn't realize that they needed to either ask the previous NNSA administrators to stay on or appoint (and confirm) their successors.
posted by mhum at 9:43 AM on February 14, 2017 [3 favorites]


Nah, this is a setup for Flynn to fall on the sword, Ollie North Style

Flynn (and Trump) are working with the disadvantage of Flynn's conversations with Russia having been recorded.
posted by diogenes at 9:44 AM on February 14, 2017 [12 favorites]


The SS exists to be Hollywood's enforcement arm...

That's the FBI:
If you believe that a criminal infringement of copyright has occurred, you may contact the Intellectual Property (IP) Program of the Financial Institution Fraud Unit of the Federal Bureau of Investigation.
posted by Etrigan at 9:45 AM on February 14, 2017 [5 favorites]


..would he have reported any illegal Russian money?

As I understand the utterly brilliant David Cay Johnson, even unreported activity leaves traces on one's legitimate filing at the scale and complexity of Trump's taxable interests. Reading between the lines is a thing with numbers too. It's a forensic craft.
posted by spitbull at 9:46 AM on February 14, 2017 [5 favorites]


15 minutes to the press briefing. anyone want to put some fun money down on what shade of orange spicer will be today?
posted by murphy slaw at 9:46 AM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


Folks asking for definitions: IC is the Intelligence Community -- NSA, CIA, DIA, etc etc.
posted by suelac at 9:47 AM on February 14, 2017 [3 favorites]


$20 on burnt umber
posted by Existential Dread at 9:47 AM on February 14, 2017 [2 favorites]


The SS exists to be Hollywood's enforcement arm

Maybe you're thinking of their function as anti-counterfeiting police? Which, yeah, ordinarily I'd say would be a big deal if it gets watered down too far, but at the rate we're going, the world will be off the petro dollar by 2018, and we'll be using old $20 bills as tinder for our garbage can fires, so it might well be moot.
posted by Mayor West at 9:48 AM on February 14, 2017 [2 favorites]


> Mutual Assured Destruction is still as much in effect as it was two weeks ago, and two years ago, and so on.

Is it, though? This is Rick... He carries the "football" The nuclear football. Y'know, the one without which we can't launch a retaliatory strike, taking him out would take the Mutual out of Mutually Assured Destruction.

(Or so I've been lead to believe in popular media. But in the same world where the President could order to nuke the next country on Twitter to piss him off, and I and the rest of the world have to count on every last person down the chain of command refusing to launch, I'm not sure how much a physical briefcase is actually the important bit of machinery here.)
posted by fragmede at 9:48 AM on February 14, 2017


looks like the Bannon faction in the white house has found their angle

"Obama era sleeper cell holdovers."

When would these people even find the time to sleep?
posted by srboisvert at 9:50 AM on February 14, 2017 [4 favorites]


$20 on burnt umber

ochre jelly
posted by prize bull octorok at 9:51 AM on February 14, 2017 [16 favorites]


The thread connecting Putin, Kushner, Bannon, Miller, Trump, Netanyahu, Flynn, Burke... seemingly very different people, from different backgrounds and even religions, is Islamaphobia. A fear and hatred of "sub-human" other, which is a fear and hatred shared by many Americans. It can be confusing to try to understand why all these people are aligned with each other until you remember that they believe they are battling an existential threat, and that this is their moment of glory and power.
posted by cell divide at 9:52 AM on February 14, 2017 [37 favorites]




$20 on burnt umber

ochre jelly


Gelatinous Cube
posted by hippybear at 9:53 AM on February 14, 2017 [17 favorites]


If anyone didn't open the Vanity Fair article that murphy slaw shared, note that the headline:

JARED KUSHNER EMERGES AS TRUMP’S TRUE BELIEVER
Far from being a moderating influence on his father-in-law, Kushner has embraced his inner Bannon.


Ivanka and Jared have really been promoting the angle, through leaks and social media, that they're a positive influence on Trump. A transparent attempt to save their careers/brands from the disastrous administration which they are complicit in normalizing. I'm very glad Vanity Fair is pushing back on that lie. Come on, folks, see the writing on the wall. None of you assholes will - or should - get out of this with your careers intact.
posted by Emily's Fist at 9:53 AM on February 14, 2017 [74 favorites]


Man, most of the Democrats standing in front of this microphone awkwardly reading statements about the Flynn scandal have all the charisma of a wet noodle. This is not going to do anything.
posted by Justinian at 9:53 AM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


"Obama era sleeper cell holdovers."

When would these people even find the time to sleep?


What would these sleepers do other than sit around expressing amazement at how the new administration appears to be machinegunning their own feet?

I don't think it's easy to manufacture a scandal bigger than having the NSA resign for inappropriate links with Russia.
posted by jaduncan at 9:53 AM on February 14, 2017 [6 favorites]


> Speaker Ryan declines to call for congressional investigation into Gen. Flynn; says need to get more info before rushing to judgment.

"You know, the way we all did for Hillary Clinton. It's only fair."
posted by The Card Cheat at 9:54 AM on February 14, 2017 [28 favorites]


Senators that are in safe GOP states and unlikely to face a primary from the right anytime soon are actually okay with an investigation taking down Trump at this point.

Blunt doesn't fit that, he only beat Kander by 3% when Trump won Mo. by 18%.
posted by ridgerunner at 9:55 AM on February 14, 2017 [4 favorites]


Like ask her about unicorns. While looking at their phone.

That's sort of brilliant actually. To demonstrate her duplicity, figure out utterly trivial things that could be spun negatively for Trump and that are easily confirmable even to the average MORAN.

Imagine if the media had gone hard after the bathrobe thing -- "But Kellyanne, your press secretary said he didn't own a bathrobe but the internet is flooded with hundreds of pictures of him in bathrobes. So who is lying to the American public here, the president's spokesman or our own damn eyes looking at these pictures, some of which I will now show in the split screen?"

How's she gonna answer that? She will have to deflect with "Come on Jake, the American people who voted for Mr. Trump The President and Commander in Chief who by the way won the election because liberal media blah blah don't care about bathrobes Jake."

And then Jake says, "Ok, but let's just clear up this bathrobe thing."

And not let it go. The more trivial the better. As Bugs Bunny used to say, try a little "bit reverse psychology."
posted by spitbull at 9:55 AM on February 14, 2017 [23 favorites]


Speaker Ryan declines to call for congressional investigation into Gen. Flynn; says need to get more info before rushing to judgment.

If only there was some systematised process that could be said to gather info before producing a judgment!
posted by jaduncan at 9:56 AM on February 14, 2017 [57 favorites]


I have to keep forcing myself to remember it hasn't even been a full month yet.
posted by corb at 9:56 AM on February 14, 2017 [32 favorites]


Is it, though? This is Rick... He carries the "football" The nuclear football. Y'know, the one without which we can't launch a retaliatory strike, taking him out would take the Mutual out of Mutually Assured Destruction.

Well, maybe? Someone in the last thread similarly suggested 'maybe Russia is reevaluating first strike outcomes'. But, that's not really a good outcome for them either. Say taking out "Rick the Nuke Guy" does end our ability to launch at all, Russia still wouldn't want to fire on the US. Even a limited nuclear exchange would fuck up the world's atmosphere and cause a worldwide famine as crops failed for years. Russia isn't exactly food independent as is, much less in a world cooled by nuclear fallout.

The nuclear danger from Trump comes more from him starting something that provokes retaliation, not necessarily increased likelihood of a first strike on the US. Any first strike by anyone risks destroying the world. No one else in the world is stupid enough to not understand that, except Trump. Or North Korea (well, possibly Pakistan, but probably not even them).
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:57 AM on February 14, 2017 [6 favorites]


Pelosi just cited a fake tweet of Flynn calling himself a scapegoat...
posted by dilaudid at 9:58 AM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


NANCY NO
posted by pxe2000 at 9:59 AM on February 14, 2017 [27 favorites]


"Obama era sleeper cell holdovers."

Wait, so the idea is that evildoers in the previous administration stuck around and are desperately trying to discredit good and loyal Trump Men, and that Trump knows that this is happening, but still asked Flynn to resign even though he knows this is all a bunch of hooey because . . . he doesn't have the courage of his convictions?
posted by Copronymus at 9:59 AM on February 14, 2017 [7 favorites]


The nuclear danger from Trump comes more from him starting something that provokes retaliation, not necessarily increased likelihood of a first strike on the US. Any first strike by anyone risks destroying the world. No one else in the world is stupid enough to not understand that, except Trump. Or North Korea (well, possibly Pakistan, but probably not even them).

Pakistan hold nukes because in any serious conventional war with India they get crushed. It's a shield rather than a sword, because all it ensures is that India goes down too.
posted by jaduncan at 9:59 AM on February 14, 2017 [5 favorites]


Both CNN and MSNBC cut away from the Democrats taking turns reading statements about Flynn. That's how terrible it was. Guys, get your shit together!
posted by Justinian at 10:00 AM on February 14, 2017 [6 favorites]


Looks like we've got another case of acronym colision with the NSA [National Security Agency] likely holding intelligence on the recently-resigned NSA [National Security Advisor].
posted by paper chromatographologist at 10:00 AM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


Elijah Cummings is an American treasure.
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 10:02 AM on February 14, 2017 [7 favorites]


It this point in time I think some of the Senators that are in safe GOP states and unlikely to face a primary from the right anytime soon are actually okay with an investigation taking down Trump at this point.

Counter-intuitive as it sounds, I really don't think it works this way. In a "safe" GOP state, the only person the incumbent is going to fear is an attack from the right (no Democrat is going to beat them in a general election, so the primary is more or less the whole enchilada).

I suspect it's more likely that states that are competitive might have GOP members willing to do something about this, because a far-right primary candidate would be in danger of losing in the general election.
posted by tocts at 10:02 AM on February 14, 2017 [4 favorites]


If only there was some systematised process that could be said to gather info before producing a judgment!

You're forgetting that for Republicans, the purpose of investigations is not to gather information. It is to punish your enemies.
posted by J.K. Seazer at 10:03 AM on February 14, 2017 [51 favorites]


Even for Erik Erickson, credentialing Gateway Pundit is a bridge too far. Of course, he points out that they "posted a picture of the Cleveland Cavaliers’ victory parade and claimed it was a Trump rally," which is exactly the kind of reason the administration would credential them.
posted by zachlipton at 10:03 AM on February 14, 2017 [17 favorites]


Elijah Cummings isn't being particularly charming but I'm seeing a lot of pull quotes of "Flynn was secretly communicating with Russian officials at the same time that Russia was attacking our democracy.” which is a nice thing to get out there.
posted by Brainy at 10:03 AM on February 14, 2017 [32 favorites]


The SS exists to be Hollywood's enforcement arm

Maybe you're thinking of their function as anti-counterfeiting police?


Officially - ie, their real remit, not how I describe a part of their function when I'm feeling snarky and grinding my "copyright is a civil issue" axe - they deal with financial fraud, and that's covered a wide variety of shit over the years. I think you're right that the camel's nose under the tent is when there's physical media and that used to mostly mean burned DVD copies. But they're a part of these various task forces that go after all sorts of sharing & copying stuff. Etrigan points out accurately that there's an FBI group that deals with this as well and I think... yeah here's one from a 2005 press release
This case is the product of an extensive/joint investigation by the Sacramento Valley High Tech Crimes Task Force, which is comprised of more than thirty federal, state, and local law enforcement agencies, including the United States Secret Service, and the Federal Bureau of Investigation. The Department of Homeland Security, Immigration and Customs Enforcement, the Motion Picture Association of America ("MPAA"), and the Recording Industry Association of America ("RIAA") also assisted with the case.
Everyone gets into the act, sure. I'm just saying that I'm not really all that worried about the SS becoming less effective. Another thing they do is deal with wire transfer issues, ie a big part of the War on (Some) Drugs. I'm gonna cry a river over that being less effective too.

Of all the law enforcement agencies that Trump can fuck up, the SS is one that I think he could turn into the Keystone Kops and not make average Americans less safe. Yes, there's plenty of other people they protect who deserve quality care and OMFG what sort of diplomatic incident they could create if a visiting dignitary gets injured under their care... but they're small ball in the "things I am worried Trump will fuck up" list.
posted by phearlez at 10:03 AM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


I have to keep forcing myself to remember it hasn't even been a full month yet.

Well, Donald did tell us that he would be, just, so presidential. Obviously we are feeling the time dilation effects of his massive gravitas.
posted by biogeo at 10:04 AM on February 14, 2017 [11 favorites]


C-SPAN link to Spicey Time, expected anytime now.
posted by zachlipton at 10:04 AM on February 14, 2017 [2 favorites]


One of my friends is super freaked out by the role the intelligence community is playing here, saying it sets a terrifying precedent. And like - it's both 100% true and also, on the other hand, no one else seems to be lifting a finger to stop this insanity. I don't even know what to think about it.
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:04 AM on February 14, 2017 [37 favorites]


Putin wondering if his puppets are smart enough - Borowitz, New Yorker parody column
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 10:05 AM on February 14, 2017 [3 favorites]


In a "safe" GOP state, the only person the incumbent is going to fear is an attack from the right

So far.
posted by Etrigan at 10:07 AM on February 14, 2017


One of my friends is super freaked out by the role the intelligence community is playing here, saying it sets a terrifying precedent.

The alternative is worse.
posted by diogenes at 10:07 AM on February 14, 2017 [11 favorites]


A Russian backed fascist coup is a terrifying precedent. The IC stuff is like.... sprinkles on top?
posted by Artw at 10:08 AM on February 14, 2017 [29 favorites]




North Korean leader Kim Jong-un's brother has been assassinated in Malaysia, South Korean media reports.

Kim Jong-nam had just applied to our Great Leader, Trump, for US asylum, which was granted by EO, which is now the reason for conflict with N. Korea..... [fake News]


but, ya know, stranger EOs have happened.....
posted by Wilder at 10:09 AM on February 14, 2017


USA Today: White House posts wrong versions of Trump's orders on its website
A USA TODAY review of presidential documents found at least five cases where the version posted on the White House website doesn't match the official version sent to the Federal Register. The differences include minor grammatical changes, missing words and paragraph renumbering — but also two cases where the original text referred to inaccurate or non-existent provisions of law.
The sheer incompetence of it.
posted by zachlipton at 10:09 AM on February 14, 2017 [102 favorites]


One of my friends is super freaked out by the role the intelligence community is playing here, saying it sets a terrifying precedent.

ok you know how in The Phantom Menace when Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon are going through the planet core and they're getting chased by a giant fish and it gets eaten by another, more giant fish? it definitely sets a bad precedent to become dependent on increasingly massive fish to interdict your predators for you but on the other hand, what, do you want your bongo to end up as fish food? and that's where we are in America today
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:10 AM on February 14, 2017 [40 favorites]


Obama era sleeper cell holdovers.

The woods are lovely, dark, and deep, but I have promises to keep. And miles to go before I sleep, and miles to go before I sleep.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:10 AM on February 14, 2017 [9 favorites]


Gee I wonder why the House doesn't want to open this can of worms it's not like House members are knee deep in this shit too.
posted by jason_steakums at 10:11 AM on February 14, 2017 [8 favorites]


One of my friends is super freaked out by the role the intelligence community is playing here, saying it sets a terrifying precedent. And like - it's both 100% true and also, on the other hand, no one else seems to be lifting a finger to stop this insanity. I don't even know what to think about it.

It's entirely a consequence of the system of checks and balances breaking down. It's happening as a consequence of the GOP going party and power over country and abdicating their part in the system. It is freaky but it's a symptom of a much larger problem.
posted by Jalliah at 10:11 AM on February 14, 2017 [57 favorites]


Melissa McCarthy as Spicer was incredibly funny when it was unexpected. Not so much anymore, and any other such swapping wouldn't be as novel.
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:13 AM on February 14, 2017 [9 favorites]


One of my friends is super freaked out by the role the intelligence community is playing here, saying it sets a terrifying precedent. And like - it's both 100% true and also, on the other hand, no one else seems to be lifting a finger to stop this insanity. I don't even know what to think about it.

The facts that (a) the President is incompetent, dangerously erratic, and has surrounded himself with criminals, con artists, and fascists, and (b) Congressional Republicans, who have a bicameral majority, refuse to lift a finger to address the problem, mean there are quite literally no good options for our democracy right now. This is akin to the musings from an article posted earlier of whether the military would refuse to follow insane orders if Trump gave them, and whether it would be worse for them to follow insane orders for an illegal first strike and/or war crime, or to mutinously disobey such obviously illegal orders. I know where I stand (they must refuse, in service to their country and the Constitution), but even being in the situation where the problem is posed means we have already lost.
posted by biogeo at 10:13 AM on February 14, 2017 [42 favorites]


Overheard journalist, waiting for the Spicer press conference to start (paraphrased): "If the Daily Caller and Sinclair want to go first, they can go ahead and move up closer."
posted by mudpuppie at 10:13 AM on February 14, 2017 [10 favorites]


Melissa McCarthy as Spicer was incredibly funny when it was unexpected. Not so much anymore, and any other such swapping wouldn't be as novel.

SNL, running a good bit into the ground???
posted by theodolite at 10:15 AM on February 14, 2017 [57 favorites]


mudpuppie - I just heard that too.

seems like there is an ongoing conversation - how do they "know" they will be going first? is the Admin now okay with being so transparent in their cherry-picking of questions that they are pre-authorizing certain reporters and outlets?
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 10:15 AM on February 14, 2017 [3 favorites]


Good evening, err afternoon, to you too, Sean!
posted by 0xFCAF at 10:16 AM on February 14, 2017 [2 favorites]


Spicer: "Happy Valentine's Day! I can sense the love in the room!" [real]
posted by mochapickle at 10:16 AM on February 14, 2017 [8 favorites]


Oh Spicer. Time to put your hand in the Pain Box again.
posted by Rust Moranis at 10:16 AM on February 14, 2017 [24 favorites]


Im watching this live on Sky News and it is a few seconds (30) behind the CSPAN feed....is there a reason?
posted by Wilder at 10:16 AM on February 14, 2017


Mnuchin is starting the press conference today.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:16 AM on February 14, 2017


Spicer starts out with: "Good even--I mean, good afternoon. Happy Valentine's Day. I can sense the love in the room"

Then he shifts to the Venezuelan Vice President sanctions to distract us.
posted by zachlipton at 10:17 AM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


Eugene Levy plays Mnuchin on the next SNL please
posted by rmless at 10:17 AM on February 14, 2017 [12 favorites]


war with Venezuela whooo sorry world
posted by angrycat at 10:17 AM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


Good evening, err afternoon, to you too, Sean!

Spicer definitely did not get any sleep last night.
posted by dis_integration at 10:17 AM on February 14, 2017 [3 favorites]


I did not know that Mnuchin was so metrosexual....odd fit with Trump
posted by Wilder at 10:18 AM on February 14, 2017



Spicer: Please ignore Flynn. The WH would like you to please talk about Venezuela and drugs.
posted by Jalliah at 10:18 AM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


I mean, it’s nighttime in Moscow.
--@rickporter
posted by zachlipton at 10:18 AM on February 14, 2017 [21 favorites]


First question to Mnuchin's statement on Venezuela is about Russian sanctions. It is ignored.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:18 AM on February 14, 2017


Mnuchin seems to have trouble saying the word "Russia."
posted by Rust Moranis at 10:19 AM on February 14, 2017


Q: Will there be sanctions on Russia/Iran?
Mnuchin: Sanctions are sanctiony and they exist. [summary /fake]
posted by rmless at 10:20 AM on February 14, 2017 [4 favorites]


OMG, this is such rich data for students of micro-expressions...
posted by Wilder at 10:20 AM on February 14, 2017 [2 favorites]


Mnuchin clearly adheres to the Barney Stinson school of wearing a suit.
posted by carmicha at 10:20 AM on February 14, 2017 [2 favorites]



Well Mnuchin seemed like he's actually good at pressers.
posted by Jalliah at 10:20 AM on February 14, 2017


Is Spicer's face getting smaller or is his skull getting larger
posted by Rust Moranis at 10:21 AM on February 14, 2017 [7 favorites]


I like how Spicey said he wants to address Flynn "First and foremost" but actually did not talk about it first at all
posted by rmless at 10:21 AM on February 14, 2017 [6 favorites]


Ha! WH is changing the story from last night. Trump took charge and asked for his resignation because of a trust issue.
posted by Jalliah at 10:22 AM on February 14, 2017 [9 favorites]


Spicer: Trump "instinctively" thought that Flynn did nothing illegal.
posted by 0xFCAF at 10:22 AM on February 14, 2017 [5 favorites]


Rust: it's all that gum in his head
posted by flatluigi at 10:22 AM on February 14, 2017 [4 favorites]


"...as Charles Krauthammer said..."

How you know you're failing as a Press Secretary.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:22 AM on February 14, 2017 [13 favorites]


Oh, wow. Mnuchin is engaged to Louise Linton. The same Louise Linton from the "skinny white muzungu with long angel hair" post last year.
posted by mochapickle at 10:23 AM on February 14, 2017 [21 favorites]


Mmmmm . . . That first taste of delish scandal. That question you always ask when the bite tastes this good: "What did the President know and when did he know it?"
posted by Ironmouth at 10:23 AM on February 14, 2017 [3 favorites]


He also wants to blame those meddling Democrats for not confirming Sessions -- surely, if he was around, this would have gone totally differently.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:23 AM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


tough on Russia...


then why ask about Polish incursions in Belorus?
posted by Wilder at 10:23 AM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


Spicer drops "the Ukraine" in the middle of his spiel about how much more the Trump administration cares about Crimea than the Obama administration did. Great.
posted by 0xFCAF at 10:23 AM on February 14, 2017 [12 favorites]


TheVerge: OKCupid now asks potential dates the big question: ‘Trump, yes or no?’
OKCupid is ... updating its questionnaires with a new category of topical questions that “daters are extremely passionated about.” Fifty new queries have been added, including: “Is climate change real?”; “Do you feel there should be a ban on immigrants from predominantly Muslim countries entering the U.S.?”; and — quite simply — “Trump?”
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:24 AM on February 14, 2017 [35 favorites]


Hey look over here at these crumbling dams!- Spicer now /mostly real
posted by rmless at 10:24 AM on February 14, 2017


Oh and 2 key points. 1st, NO WAY Russian sanctions get dropped. None. 2nd, a President-Elect has NO executive privilege.
posted by Ironmouth at 10:24 AM on February 14, 2017 [3 favorites]


talking of the Oroville Dam sit, he had to read from autocue.....SRLY,

why is this not instinctive, you are protecting your own population??
posted by Wilder at 10:25 AM on February 14, 2017


Incidentally, why are people speculating about which celebrities should portray Conway on SNL? Did something happen to Kate McKinnon that I didn't hear about?
posted by Atom Eyes at 10:25 AM on February 14, 2017 [3 favorites]


Yet again, I am frustrated that you can't fast-forward through real life.
posted by rmless at 10:26 AM on February 14, 2017 [10 favorites]


why IS Ivanka in the audience? I don't get her role
posted by Wilder at 10:26 AM on February 14, 2017 [3 favorites]


I'm a little surprised that Republicans aren't leaving themselves more wiggle room in their statements about Flynn right now. Some of them seem to be betting their careers on this not going deeper, and that doesn't seem like a wise bet. I expect cravenness, but I thought their sense of self-preservation would cause them to at least remain silent or speak more ambiguously.
They seem terrified to be honest.
One would assume they're tied to the trump train for something other than just political gain.
posted by fullerine at 10:26 AM on February 14, 2017 [6 favorites]


Just in case any of you felt you were getting too giddy over Flynn.

The Secret Service is demonstrably the most unprofessional law enforcement agency in a city that's chockablock with them. It's hard to imagine they haven't already hit rock bottom, what with the constant whoring on the clock and all.

Last year, one of them - strapped with an assault rifle and wearing body armor - yelled at my tiny, 2 year old daughter for stepping into the (pedestrian-only, not then visibly closed to its regular foot traffic) block of Pennsylvania Avenue in front of the Corcoran Gallery. When I objected, he started in on me, and then threatened to arrest a woman who saw the whole thing and started calling him a thug and a fascist from the sidewalk, getting redder and more visibly flustered all the while. The general impression I got was "total loose cannon".
posted by ryanshepard at 10:27 AM on February 14, 2017 [76 favorites]


The thread connecting Putin, Kushner, Bannon, Miller, Trump, Netanyahu, Flynn, Burke... seemingly very different people, from different backgrounds and even religions, is Islamaphobia.

Yeah, that's what it comes down to, isn't it?

I guess it's been confusing because they all have other goals as well. Putin wants a Syrian client state and a new less-socialist USSR. Burke wants power within the church and to Make Patriarchy Great Again. Bannon and Miller are scared that white people will be a minority in America soon and want to make sure they won't be a minority of voters.

But... none of those agendas conflict with each other. In fact they complement each other. And they feel they have a common enemy in the whole religion of Islam. So these different groups -- Putin, the Americans nostalgic for the Confederacy, the Catholic revanchists -- have teamed up, and together they have a LOT of power and a large base.

But yeah there are a lot of people who DON'T want a global war with Islam too, including unlikely bedfellows like China, the American intelligence community, the Koch brothers (a global war is bad for business!), the Pope, etc. I mean yeah, a lot of people who don't get along under normal circumstances will team up against the threat of global war against a whole religion...

And then, of course, there's US! There are a lot of US! And we aren't fooled. We don't want to go to war against Islam. (In fact, US includes a lot of Muslims!) And in the end we're the MAJORITY and that's the best kind of political power to have. You can't really govern a whole country against the will of the majority for long, not one as big and spread out as the US, not in practical terms. We don't want to turn back the clock to the 19th century. They can't do it without our cooperation. And we aren't cooperating!

So jokes aside I'm actually fully on board the "We're the heroes we've been waiting for" train, even as I hope that some of our unlikely allies in this fight win some of their skirmishes.

I hope people in Europe are paying attention and will realize that refugees and immigrants are no kind of threat at all in comparison to this terrifying coalition of people who want to go to war with Islam. At least Trump exposed the threat! Imagine what could happen if those groups had installed a competent puppet in office?
posted by OnceUponATime at 10:27 AM on February 14, 2017 [36 favorites]


why IS Ivanka in the audience? I don't get her role

Dad's at lunch with Christie and can't watch; Spicer knows this, so Ivanka is there to remind him that Trump is always watching.
posted by notyou at 10:28 AM on February 14, 2017 [31 favorites]


“The whole history of the Islamic presence in Europe is an attempt to conquer it.”

I'll probably get in trouble here for saying something that could be mis-construed as support for the vile islamophobes, but: The Islamic Ottoman Empire conquered by military means large parts of southeastern Europe and ruled the Greeks, Slavs, Romanians and Hungarians there for centuries. They would have been very happy to extend their rule further by these means, but were turned back at the proverbial gates of Vienna in 1529.

Similarly, several centuries earlier, an Arab Muslim entity, the Umayyad Caliphate invaded Spain during the initial Islamic expansion and ruled there for centuries. They, likewise, would have been happy to extend their rule further north into Europe but were turned back in France by a Frankish army in 732.

So, the aim of conquering Europe is one that was held by major Muslim political entities twice in the historical past, and they were actually rather -- though not totally -- successful, for a time.

How soon we have forgotten The Crusades.

These Muslim empires were significantly more successful in their attempt to conquer Europe than the Christian Europeans were in attempting to conquer the 'holy land' during the crusades, in terms of size of area conquered, length of tenure and robustness of political presence. (The Muslims had conquered the 'holy land' previously from the Greek Byzantine Empire, successor to the ancient Roman Empire. And I don't believe the Christian crusaders had any ambition to continue on and conquer Arabia, say, at least officially.)

This history doesn't mean the islamophobes are right in how they interpret Muslims immigrating to Europe today. But it is history.
posted by bertran at 10:29 AM on February 14, 2017 [42 favorites]


Spicer really should motorize that podium.
posted by mochapickle at 10:30 AM on February 14, 2017 [10 favorites]


TheVerge: OKCupid now asks potential dates the big question: ‘Trump, yes or no?’

Wait, did they stop letting users make up their own questions, or did nobody ask that question already for some reason?
posted by wildblueyonder at 10:30 AM on February 14, 2017 [4 favorites]


it's a good thing that spicer keeps stumbling over his words because otherwise his monotone would have put me to sleep by now
posted by murphy slaw at 10:30 AM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


He's really going on and on here, like he's trying to put off having to answer questions.
posted by azpenguin at 10:30 AM on February 14, 2017


Tomorrow: Netanyahu and Trump press conference (which means no Spicer).
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:31 AM on February 14, 2017


It's entirely a consequence of the system of checks and balances breaking down. It's happening as a consequence of the GOP going party and power over country and abdicating their part in the system. It is freaky but it's a symptom of a much larger problem.

Nine IC leaks on one newspaper story is the biggest "et tu, Brute" moment for quite a while. It's also the fact that this isn't like Snowden; there's no single source and no widely spread information. It's leaks from the leadership, just as it has been with the details of calls and off-the-record comments about how screwed the NSC is right now. So many agencies and people deploying that against the WH is really extremely unusual; that is, in and of itself, as much a sign as the details of what's being leaked that nobody close to the action sees this as normal times.
posted by jaduncan at 10:31 AM on February 14, 2017 [11 favorites]


Time for the meat!
posted by rmless at 10:32 AM on February 14, 2017


Spicer says they have been 'reviewing a legal issue" for 17 days, which White House counsel concluded there was not.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:32 AM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


So, the aim of conquering Europe is one that was held by major Muslim political entities twice in the historical past, and they were actually rather -- though not totally -- successful, for a time.

This is something that could be said of literally any political entity that tried to extend their power throughout history. That it's being used specifically to target Muslims--along with a lot of other Islamophobic stuff--is the problem.
posted by zombieflanders at 10:32 AM on February 14, 2017 [18 favorites]


there was No legal issue acc to Sean Spicer....I don't even...

if there HAD been a legal issue.....??
posted by Wilder at 10:33 AM on February 14, 2017


Mr. Glasses is punching Spicer in the face with some hard-hitting questions. Be my Valentine, Mr. Glasses.
posted by prefpara at 10:33 AM on February 14, 2017 [6 favorites]


Three weeks in and we're already on basically 'he lied, but we didn't break any laws.'
posted by zachlipton at 10:34 AM on February 14, 2017 [17 favorites]


Followed up with another whammer of a question from Mr. Pale Tie. I'm having fun. (sort of)
posted by prefpara at 10:34 AM on February 14, 2017 [2 favorites]


How is blackmail not a legal situation?
posted by flatluigi at 10:34 AM on February 14, 2017 [2 favorites]


WashingtonPost (The Debrief): Onstage with a fellow world leader, Trump acts the part (h/t The Daily 202)
... As Trudeau took his turn speaking, Trump stood stoically, gazing out at the reporters assembled in the White House’s lavish East Room. He did not fidget quite as much as usual.

For a man who has long been fascinated by celebrities, the opportunity to share a stage with another world leader is the ultimate reminder of just how far he has unexpectedly come. His demeanor is remarkably different in these moments. It appears as though he has been cast by a Hollywood director to play the very serious role of President of the United States.
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:35 AM on February 14, 2017 [7 favorites]


I bet Spicer wants that moving podium right about now.
posted by Pendragon at 10:35 AM on February 14, 2017 [5 favorites]


maybe charles krauthammer is in the running for the new press secretary?
posted by murphy slaw at 10:35 AM on February 14, 2017


Pretty sure he just referred to P.M. of Canada "Joe Trudeau".
Man, Spicer's game is tight.
posted by isopraxis at 10:35 AM on February 14, 2017 [10 favorites]


Spicey is taking the position that it was proper for Flynn to discuss sanctions with Russia during the transition...
posted by prefpara at 10:36 AM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


Spicer is saying there's been a complete legal review of what Flynn said on the phone calls. That feels like it's just baiting releasing the transcripts.
posted by Brainy at 10:36 AM on February 14, 2017 [3 favorites]


This history doesn't mean the islamophobes are right in how they interpret Muslims immigrating to Europe today. But it is history.

I mean, everyone tried to conquer everyone. The Catholic Church actually ran The Holy Roman Empire. But that's just humans humaning. It doesn't say anything about what some refugees escaping from Assad's death camps want today. I know you know this, but I think it's worth saying anyway.

On Facebook I've been arguing with conservatives who are quoting with horror some Muslim professor saying that the Koran doesn't necessarily forbid slavery, like "Look what a terrible religion Islam is!" As if there weren't a whole industry of Christian preachers explaining why the Bible didn't forbid slavery in the ante-bellum US. As if it were even hard to find Christian preachers making that same argument today! Humans gonna human. No nation or religion has clean hands. They've all had expansionist periods, and slavery in some form or another, pretty much.
posted by OnceUponATime at 10:36 AM on February 14, 2017 [37 favorites]


So, according to Spicer, over the past 17 days the White House was only assessing whether Flynn did something illegal (during which time Flynn performed his National Security Advisor role). After they decided there was no legal issue, only then could Trump consider whether it was a problem that Flynn had lied to Pence and other administration officials. While investigating the legal issues, Trump was completely agnostic about whether Flynn's behavior was untrustworthy.
posted by vathek at 10:36 AM on February 14, 2017 [16 favorites]


Spicer says he won't get into the specifics of what happened between Conway's statement yesterday and last night.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:36 AM on February 14, 2017 [4 favorites]


Or, let's have a respectful conversation with corb to find out why a majority of Americans voted the way they did.

I don't think corb is the right person to ask about Clinton's appeal to voters.
posted by Etrigan at 10:37 AM on February 14, 2017 [22 favorites]


Q: What happened during the course of the day to change Trump's mind?
Spicey: He made a decision all by himself in his head because he is a big smart boy. /fake
posted by rmless at 10:38 AM on February 14, 2017 [3 favorites]


Mod note: A few comments deleted; better to just skip the thing about corb's view of previous Democratic congressional actions, it'll take us off track here in a way that I think everybody can pretty well rehearse for themselves by now.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 10:38 AM on February 14, 2017 [19 favorites]


Followed up with another whammer of a question from Mr. Pale Tie.

That's CBS News WH Correspondent Major Garrett, formerly of Fox News.
posted by Room 641-A at 10:38 AM on February 14, 2017


It cannot be overstated how badly the White House undermined Conway by letting her go out there to explain that Flynn had the "full confidence" of the President and then putting out an official statement from Spicer an hour later that expressed absolutely no confidence, followed soon thereafter by Flynn being asked to resign. Flynn got fired, but Conway got stabbed in the back there.
posted by zachlipton at 10:39 AM on February 14, 2017 [47 favorites]


Spicer: 'there was nothing about what he discussed that was a legal problem....
posted by Wilder at 10:39 AM on February 14, 2017


SOCOM commander, 4-star general:
Gen. Tony Thomas, head of the military’s Special Operations Command, expressed concern about upheaval inside the White House. “Our government continues to be in unbelievable turmoil. I hope they sort it out soon because we’re a nation at war,” he said at a military conference on Tuesday. Asked about his comments later, General Thomas said in a brief interview, “As a commander, I’m concerned our government be as stable as possible.”
#hashtagthisisfinehashtag
posted by holgate at 10:39 AM on February 14, 2017 [51 favorites]


The Catholic Church actually ran The Holy Roman Empire.

It technically still does, although admittedly I am now forced to look on their works and despair whilst the lone and level lands of other not-the-HRE states stretch far away.
posted by jaduncan at 10:39 AM on February 14, 2017



I'm not sure if Spicy and the Prez being so firm that Flynn did nothing wrong by talking to Russia is going to end well for them.
posted by Jalliah at 10:40 AM on February 14, 2017 [12 favorites]


flat out denial of the "omarosa dossier on reporters" question.
posted by murphy slaw at 10:41 AM on February 14, 2017


It really seems like they can't even throw someone under a bus properly.
posted by dinty_moore at 10:41 AM on February 14, 2017 [37 favorites]


The correct response is to just say "excellent, please release the transcripts so that can be verified".
posted by jaduncan at 10:41 AM on February 14, 2017 [3 favorites]


That bump you feel is the car rolling over Omorosa's body.
posted by Room 641-A at 10:41 AM on February 14, 2017 [7 favorites]


Now he takes refuge in the Skype Seats.
posted by Rust Moranis at 10:42 AM on February 14, 2017


"No dossier, just a binder I keep right here"

Not a joking matter, you fuck.
posted by eclectist at 10:42 AM on February 14, 2017 [8 favorites]


Let's go to Skype for a softball topic change!
posted by 0xFCAF at 10:42 AM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


We just got a baller good question from a Skype seat. Not sure what is happening today. Up is down, press conferences feel good? Now Spicey is scrambling to attack Dodd-Frank.
posted by prefpara at 10:42 AM on February 14, 2017 [7 favorites]


whoa, actually a tough question from Las Vegas on Dodd-Frank (since Las Vegas got absolutely murdered by predatory home lending)
posted by murphy slaw at 10:42 AM on February 14, 2017 [5 favorites]


Spicer called for that Skype Seat question like it was the last lifeboart leaving the Titanic.
posted by zachlipton at 10:43 AM on February 14, 2017 [22 favorites]


Spicy and the Prez

One is a genius, the other's insane.

Wait, no, the other thing. Both insane.
posted by Mayor West at 10:43 AM on February 14, 2017 [20 favorites]


Now he takes refuge in the Skype Seats.


Question from a Mr. PewPewDie...
posted by Artw at 10:43 AM on February 14, 2017 [13 favorites]


"Dodd-Frank was actually bad and made things worse and not better"
posted by flatluigi at 10:43 AM on February 14, 2017


The correct response is to just say "excellent, please release the transcripts so that can be verified".

Especially since we've established that the Logan Act hasn't been breached through Spicer's unimpeachable word, so no foreign policy issues exist to be disclosed, amirite*?

*I am not right.
posted by jaduncan at 10:43 AM on February 14, 2017 [3 favorites]


It cannot be overstated how badly the White House undermined Conway by letting her go out there to explain that Flynn had the "full confidence" of the President and then putting out an official statement from Spicer an hour later that expressed absolutely no confidence, followed soon thereafter by Flynn being asked to resign. Flynn got fired, but Conway got stabbed in the back there.

They would have known that if any of them had bothered to watch the West Wing!

I do not recommend watching the West Wing right now, by the way. It will make you feel such strong saudade you may explode, the fear of which is why I stopped.
posted by winna at 10:43 AM on February 14, 2017 [20 favorites]


Reporter just asked what did the president know and when did he know it

ohh shiiiiiiiit
posted by Rust Moranis at 10:43 AM on February 14, 2017 [125 favorites]


Flynn must have some really great dirt locked up in a super secret safe.
posted by sammyo at 10:43 AM on February 14, 2017 [2 favorites]


the president was "proved instinctively correct"?
posted by murphy slaw at 10:44 AM on February 14, 2017 [4 favorites]


Flynn got fired, but Conway got stabbed in the back there.

Quite the opposite: Trump makes Conway and Spicer (and everyone else) lie egregiously, in public, over and over again, about the stupidest possible things for the express purpose of tying them closer to him. It's a loyalty test, and she proved her loyalty. It also makes them utterly unemployable by anyone else, for two reasons:
1) The obvious "Really, you're sending her out to talk about this?" issues.
B) When the only thing you bring to the table is loyalty (after every other positive quality was stripped away), then you cannot ever quit, because that kills your last marketable skill.
posted by Etrigan at 10:44 AM on February 14, 2017 [53 favorites]


im clearly on a slight delay, but my oh my did the room not think spicey's 'joke' about dossiers/binders was funny.
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 10:44 AM on February 14, 2017 [6 favorites]


I thought that was actually a good question from Skype ... What's going on ?!?!?
posted by Pendragon at 10:44 AM on February 14, 2017


He has the best dirt. The greatest. Bigly dirt.
posted by winna at 10:44 AM on February 14, 2017


"He was proved instinctively correct" oooof- is this the theme that Trump wants hammered home? That he doesn't need facts first because he is always right? This is a dangerous way to brand.
posted by rmless at 10:44 AM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


Go go pale tie #2!
posted by meowf at 10:46 AM on February 14, 2017 [2 favorites]


spicer is decisively failing to draw a clear line between the illegality of flynn's actions and the "loss of trust" on the part of the president
posted by murphy slaw at 10:46 AM on February 14, 2017 [6 favorites]


Flynn must have some really great dirt locked up in a super secret safe.

Not to be all rah rah about this, but I would suspect that someone who ran an intelligence agency would have the foresight to have several subtly removed burn bags of it.
posted by jaduncan at 10:47 AM on February 14, 2017 [3 favorites]


So now he's throwing the DOJ under the bus for the 17 day gap - y'know the same DOJ that he wants to execute his EOs.
posted by eclectist at 10:47 AM on February 14, 2017 [3 favorites]


Spicer is making a big deal out of the fact that the White House wasn't informed about Flynn's communications until January 26th, while Pence reported what Flynn told him on January 15th. The thing is that we already knew about Flynn's calls well before January 15th, because that's why Pence was asked about them on the Sunday shows to begin with. Face The Nation didn't randomly decide to ask Pence "hey, did Flynn talk to the Russians about sanctions." There were a number of leaks well before the 15th on the subject. Their timeline is off by weeks.
posted by zachlipton at 10:47 AM on February 14, 2017 [27 favorites]


It also makes them utterly unemployable by anyone else, for two reasons:

I admire your optimism, but Kellyanne could go out for a press conference tonight, rip off a rubber mask to reveal that she is just a seething mass of rats holding a vaguely human form, and demand blood for the blood god. She'd have a job on Fox & Friends by Thursday afternoon.
posted by Mayor West at 10:47 AM on February 14, 2017 [57 favorites]


Please, for those of us who have to read these threads on our phones most of the time, I beg of (some of) y'all to stop the context-free press conference livestream one-liners.
posted by Etrigan at 10:47 AM on February 14, 2017 [31 favorites]


Ha ha. Spicer: I am going to emphasize really, really, really strong "The President was decisive....unbelievably decisive....HE WAS DECISIVE about this as soon at he found out about it"

Liar, liar, liar
posted by Jalliah at 10:48 AM on February 14, 2017 [7 favorites]


"He was proved instinctively correct" oooof- is this the theme that Trump wants hammered home? That he doesn't need facts first because he is always right? This is a dangerous way to brand.

Well he calls his own shots, based largely on an accumulation of data, and everybody knows it.
posted by bassooner at 10:48 AM on February 14, 2017 [11 favorites]


Spicer chiding about press covering classified information in the context of leaks. Hmm, I wonder if there will be a follow-up question about handling classified docs on the Mar-a-lago patio?
posted by 0xFCAF at 10:48 AM on February 14, 2017 [8 favorites]


Not to be all rah rah about this, but I would suspect that someone who ran an intelligence agency would have the foresight to have several subtly removed burn bags of it.

Not to mention being an FSB asset on the side.
posted by Artw at 10:48 AM on February 14, 2017


'LEAKS! I CAN CHANGE THE SUBJECT!'
posted by flatluigi at 10:48 AM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


Oh my god, Spicey is now lecturing the press about how people leaking national security info is the only important thing. He is stepping RIGHT INTO the "so why is Donny showing classified info to random people at Mar-a-Lago and discussing North Korea in front of waiters?" issue. And "what about WH staffers using Confide, Sean?"
posted by FelliniBlank at 10:49 AM on February 14, 2017 [14 favorites]


I really want someone to ask about the insecure M-a-l huddle. Come on guys! Keep up the gumption!
posted by prefpara at 10:49 AM on February 14, 2017 [8 favorites]


Obvious follow-up to Spicer expressing distress about the leaks: doesn't that problem reflect an issue with Trump's management style and/or "extreme vetting" of his staff?
posted by carmicha at 10:50 AM on February 14, 2017 [12 favorites]


"so why is Donny showing classified info to random people at Mar-a-Lago and discussing North Korea in front of waiters?"

They already said that there was no classified info at Mar-a-Lago. That would be illegal and improper and they would never ever do that ever they swear. Trust them.
posted by zrail at 10:50 AM on February 14, 2017 [4 favorites]


I admire your optimism, but Kellyanne could go out for a press conference tonight, rip off a rubber mask to reveal that she is just a seething mass of rats holding a vaguely human form, and demand blood for the blood god. She'd have a job on Fox & Friends by Thursday afternoon.

They prefer 'friend of Cruz' as a term, thank you.
posted by jaduncan at 10:51 AM on February 14, 2017 [51 favorites]


This isn't a press conference, it's a fucking massacre.
posted by Talez at 10:51 AM on February 14, 2017 [3 favorites]


> The thread connecting Putin, Kushner, Bannon, Miller, Trump, Netanyahu, Flynn, Burke... seemingly very different people, from different backgrounds and even religions, is Islamaphobia. A fear and hatred of "sub-human" other, which is a fear and hatred shared by many Americans. It can be confusing to try to understand why all these people are aligned with each other until you remember that they believe they are battling an existential threat, and that this is their moment of glory and power.

This comment has been bugging me for about an hour now. Guys, we just had a really huge anti-Semitism MeTa that went pretty badly, with several people having left, at least one (maxsparber) apparently permanently. Seeing Netanyahu thrown into that list alongside a massive list of US politicians who genuinely are acting in coalition--yes, including Kushner--feels pretty gross to me, and the juxtaposition of a whole bunch of Christian politicians, one Jewish politician who is genuinely in the thick of things, and then Israel invoked out of fucking nowhere to make the point that all of this is about Islamophobia and destroying Muslims is weird.

This is about a lot of things. The thread connecting all of the American politicians on that list--which is to say, all the damn rest of them!--is the desire for personal power and the sense that attacking marginalized groups in America, particularly immigrants and anyone who isn't Like-Us enough to count, is the way to attain that power. Israel has its own politics going on, and it does not make sense to lump them wholeheartedly alongside the current American dumpster fire as if they are identical in context and outcome to the details of what is going on over here. Shoehorning it in apparently out of nowhere feels really, incredibly gross and like a way of signaling blame to Jewish people for the shitshow happening here in the States.
posted by sciatrix at 10:51 AM on February 14, 2017 [51 favorites]


The current White House occupant might not have said "hey, Flynn talk sanctions to the Ruskies", but Flynn apparently considered it part of his job to call the Russian ambassador and raise the issue, and his boss seemed very satisfied with Putin's response to the post-election sanctions. The Cossacks work for the Czar.

Those transcripts will show up sooner than later.
posted by holgate at 10:53 AM on February 14, 2017 [2 favorites]


I know Admiral Harward is the leading candidate to replace Flynn, but considering David Petraeus' name has been floated for the spot, Spicer's whinging about White House leaks is richer than Trump claims to be.
posted by enjoymoreradio at 10:53 AM on February 14, 2017 [2 favorites]


Israel invoked out of fucking nowhere

In fairness (and I do see where you're coming from here) Bibi was pretty partisan during the campaign.
posted by jaduncan at 10:53 AM on February 14, 2017 [8 favorites]


Question: You said the president was tough on Russia. Are you fucking kidding me? [paraphrase]
posted by murphy slaw at 10:54 AM on February 14, 2017 [26 favorites]



Wait what? "Federalist blog thing softball?

That was a very long and pompous way to say 'We don't like regulations that liberals make. What are you going to do about it?'
posted by Jalliah at 10:54 AM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


Meanwhile, Canada is all aTwitter about the "Joe Trudeau" slip. We appear to be mostly amused instead of wondering if this signals some massive shift in relations.
posted by nubs at 10:54 AM on February 14, 2017 [5 favorites]


In fairness (and I do see where you're coming from here) Bibi was pretty partisan during the campaign.

That's fair, but in context it still feels pretty "what the fuck?" to me. Like, frankly, Putin was as partisan if not more so, and he's the one who is actively trying to overthrow our leadership. Where the fuck is his name on that list?
posted by sciatrix at 10:55 AM on February 14, 2017 [3 favorites]


Spicer: Trump 'instinctively' thought that Flynn did nothing illegal.

"A few months ago I told the American people I did not trade arms for hostages. My heart and my best intentions still tell me that's true, but the facts and the evidence tell me it is not."

-- Ronald Reagan
posted by kirkaracha at 10:55 AM on February 14, 2017 [70 favorites]


Greenwald on the leakers who exposed Flynn:
Yet very few people are calling for a criminal investigation or the prosecution of these leakers, nor demanding the leakers step forward and “face the music” – for very good reason: the officials leaking this information acted justifiably, despite the fact that they violated the law. That’s because the leaks revealed that a high government official, Gen. Flynn, blatantly lied to the public about a material matter – his conversations with Russian diplomats – and the public has the absolute right to know this.

This episode underscores a critical point: the mere fact that an act is illegal does not mean it is unjust or even deserving of punishment. Oftentimes, the most just acts are precisely the ones that the law prohibits.

That’s particularly true of whistleblowers – i.e., those who reveal information the law makes it a crime to reveal, when doing so is the only way to demonstrate to the public that powerful officials are acting wrongfully or deceitfully. In those cases, we should cheer those who do it even though they are undertaking exactly those actions which the criminal law prohibits.
posted by AceRock at 10:55 AM on February 14, 2017 [19 favorites]


Spicer keeps talking about how "the trust eroded" but refuses to state any possible reason for the erosion of that trust.
posted by murphy slaw at 10:55 AM on February 14, 2017 [4 favorites]


"It's not about illegality; it's about eroding trust. The trust was eroding; there was rapid trust erosion." Man, that trust eroded harder and faster than the fucking Oroville spillway.
posted by FelliniBlank at 10:56 AM on February 14, 2017 [15 favorites]


For those following along on phones, the last Skype guy was from the Federalist Papers Project who bloviated about the consent of the governed and rolling back government oversight. The kind of guy you'd edge away from at a dinner party. Total softball.
posted by mochapickle at 10:56 AM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


Q: What else did Flynn f up and do you care?
Spicey: uhh there are a lot of people here so its cool /fake
posted by rmless at 10:56 AM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]




Glenn Greenwald is not your friend. He is about a step behind Wikileaks in all this TBH.
posted by Artw at 10:58 AM on February 14, 2017 [20 favorites]


Mar-a-Lago question. Thank you, Skype lady
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:58 AM on February 14, 2017 [13 favorites]


Where the fuck is his name on that list?

First.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 10:58 AM on February 14, 2017 [19 favorites]


YES!!! Skype caller banging him on insecure M-a-l convos!!!!!
posted by prefpara at 10:58 AM on February 14, 2017


You know shit is bad when you're getting hard questions from a Florida talk radio host.
posted by otenba at 10:58 AM on February 14, 2017 [48 favorites]


Is it weird that I'm nervous this is happening too soon, and it will be completely forgotten by the time the mid-terms roll around, and we need to pin people to the wall with their early support of trump?
posted by codacorolla at 10:59 AM on February 14, 2017 [5 favorites]


Spicer claims there's a SCIF (secure comms room) at Mar-A-Lago. Is there? Do we have evidence of this? Or is it just a lie?
posted by dis_integration at 10:59 AM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


Glenn Greenwald is not your friend.

(GleGrinyf)
posted by Rust Moranis at 10:59 AM on February 14, 2017 [3 favorites]


Putin was as partisan if not more so, and he's the one who is actively trying to overthrow our leadership. Where the fuck is his name on that list?

On this list?

"The thread connecting Putin, Kushner, Bannon, Miller, Trump, Netanyahu, Flynn, Burke..."
posted by Myca at 11:00 AM on February 14, 2017 [16 favorites]


Spicer says Trump was not aware of conversations that Flynn had during the transition. Once DOJ told him, at that point, he was told there was no legal issue. It was appropriate in the normal course of action.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:00 AM on February 14, 2017


Spicer claims there's a SCIF (secure comms room) at Mar-A-Lago. Is there?

It's probably being set up as we speak.
posted by FelliniBlank at 11:00 AM on February 14, 2017 [2 favorites]


man spicer is trying to GTFO as fast as possible
posted by murphy slaw at 11:01 AM on February 14, 2017


Hey everyone, please remember this moment when Spicer was asked directly about whether Trump knew about Flynn talking to Russia about sanctions at the time, and he answered No.
I have a feeling we will be coming back to this.
posted by rmless at 11:01 AM on February 14, 2017 [92 favorites]


This is the media uploaded to Twitter by the fresh faced young fascist Spicer just cybered with.
posted by snuffleupagus at 11:01 AM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


Spicer claims there's a SCIF (secure comms room) at Mar-A-Lago. Is there? Do we have evidence of this? Or is it just a lie?

Also, is he under the impression that makes it better to sit an an unsecured party with cameraphones pointing at the relevant documents?
posted by jaduncan at 11:01 AM on February 14, 2017 [13 favorites]


Spicer suddenly shouts HAPPY VALENTINE'S DAY and disappears in a cloud of cinnamon.
posted by mochapickle at 11:02 AM on February 14, 2017 [13 favorites]


Mod note: Folks, please ease back with the contextless liveblogging of "omg" reactions. Also if we need to continue the meta discussion of antisemitism further, it should happen over in the Metatalk for that.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 11:02 AM on February 14, 2017 [15 favorites]


Spicer claims there's a SCIF (secure comms room) at Mar-A-Lago. Is there? Do we have evidence of this? Or is it just a lie?

The President's entourage includes a mobile SCIF at all times. There are some pictures from the Obama administration of what it looks like from the outside, but basically it's a Faraday cage tent with a secure phone line.
posted by zrail at 11:02 AM on February 14, 2017 [3 favorites]


Spicer runs out literally screaming "Happy valentine's day!" and a reporter asks after him "Did you sign an NDA?"
posted by Rust Moranis at 11:02 AM on February 14, 2017 [17 favorites]


Whoa. He literally bolted. Wow.
posted by eclectist at 11:02 AM on February 14, 2017 [3 favorites]


Spicer claims there's a SCIF (secure comms room) at Mar-A-Lago. Is there? Do we have evidence of this? Or is it just a lie?

Whether there is or not (and I'm guessing there isn't), the whole "treason alfresco" thing was pretty well-documented.
posted by ryanshepard at 11:03 AM on February 14, 2017 [9 favorites]


Is it weird that I'm nervous this is happening too soon, and it will be completely forgotten by the time the mid-terms roll around, and we need to pin people to the wall with their early support of trump?

Quoting myself, but I guess I fully understand the strategy behind BENGHAZI-RAMA now. The difference here, is that investigating the trumpists would be well and fully justified instead of a dog and pony show.
posted by codacorolla at 11:04 AM on February 14, 2017 [6 favorites]


That was incredibly strange, even for 2017
posted by theodolite at 11:04 AM on February 14, 2017 [13 favorites]


Which Depeche Mode lyrics were you thinking of during Spicer's press conference today? Mine were either:

It's a question of lust / It's a question of trust / It's a question of not letting / What we've built up / Crumble to dust / It is all of these things and more / That keep us together

Or

You will always wonder how / It could have been if you'd only lied / It's too late to change events / It's time to face the consequence / For delivering the proof / In the policy of truth / Never again / Is what you swore / The time before
posted by MCMikeNamara at 11:04 AM on February 14, 2017 [10 favorites]


Spicer is saying there's been a complete legal review of what Flynn said on the phone calls

Release the kraken transcripts.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 11:04 AM on February 14, 2017




I'm not sure I understand the White House's position.

So, Flynn emphatically did nothing wrong. BUT trump can't trust him because...why? Because he misled the Vice-President? About what?

Flynn did nothing wrong, but he didn't tell the VP that he did nothing wrong so they can't trust him now?

Am I missing something?
posted by sporkwort at 11:05 AM on February 14, 2017 [17 favorites]


Is the public dining room a SCIF?

Does gold plating the entire interior of a hotel count as a Faraday cage?
posted by JoeZydeco at 11:05 AM on February 14, 2017 [50 favorites]


Has this Kellyanne Conway tweet been linked here yet? Because crap, that's a little scary.
posted by nubs at 11:05 AM on February 14, 2017 [11 favorites]


Does gold plating the entire interior of a hotel count as a Faraday cage?

Oh honey, that's not gold.
posted by ryanshepard at 11:06 AM on February 14, 2017 [40 favorites]


Do you think they even know how badly this is going, or in their mind is this somehow all part of the plan?
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:06 AM on February 14, 2017 [4 favorites]


They prefer 'friend of Cruz' as a term, thank you.

There are no "friends of Cruz." He was shunned by Scalia's clerks at Scalia's funeral, and he clerked for Rehnquist. You know no one likes you when you get shunned at a funeral.
posted by kirkaracha at 11:06 AM on February 14, 2017 [5 favorites]


I've mentioned in the past that Glenn Greenwald looks eerily like Gentleman Caller. This election has made that resemblance REALLY WEIRD.
posted by pxe2000 at 11:07 AM on February 14, 2017


Flynn did nothing wrong, but he didn't tell the VP that he did nothing wrong so they can't trust him now?

Am I missing something?


You're not missing anything. It doesn't make sense or add up.
posted by diogenes at 11:07 AM on February 14, 2017 [4 favorites]


Oh honey, that's not gold.

Yeah, yeah. I was being facetious.
posted by JoeZydeco at 11:08 AM on February 14, 2017


That Conway tweet reads like some bizarro mentat mantra she utters every monring.
posted by cmfletcher at 11:08 AM on February 14, 2017 [33 favorites]


Has this Kellyanne Conway tweet been linked here yet? Because crap, that's a little scary.

Also scary, this one, where she sends some Valentine's Day love to all the "Hapless Haters" and a random tweeter with #WhiteIdentity in their twitter bio.
posted by zachlipton at 11:08 AM on February 14, 2017 [3 favorites]


Is the public dining room a SCIF?

No, people did social media from it...and shockingly SCIFs don't tend to fit a couple of hundred non-vetted people.

Or, put another way: has Trump actually used a SCIF at Mar-A-Lago for all his communication? Has he used it properly? Did he bring his personal phone inside? Because 'it exists!' seems like a bit of evasion -- that's really not quite the concern.

I would argue that it ironically makes it much worse. Choosing not to bother to walk five minutes to a secured location when you do not yet know what the documents say or how the situation will develop is something I'd have expected to be on charges for.
posted by jaduncan at 11:09 AM on February 14, 2017 [26 favorites]


Am I missing something?

No, the position is incoherent on multiple levels.

First, if Trump fired him because of lying, he should've fired him right away. You can investigate the legal issues later. The firing and the legal investigations are entirely disconnected.

Second, if he did nothing wrong, then why did he lie about it? Why lie about a call that is just "perfectly normal regular diplomat stuff" (paraphrasing). I guess because you're a complete fuckup, like Flynn? But really, if there was nothing wrong about the call then there was no reason to lie.

Third, if Trump really fired him just because of "trust issues", then why did the firing come immediately in the wake of the leaks. Surely he could've come to this decision much more quickly than he did. In fact, it looks pretty clear that the leakers set the agenda here, not the President, and that Flynn would not have resigned if everything had been kept under wraps.

Nothing about this position makes sense. But then again, nothing about Trump makes sense so maybe it's all true (it's not).
posted by dis_integration at 11:09 AM on February 14, 2017 [24 favorites]


Has this Kellyanne Conway tweet been linked here yet? Because crap, that's a little scary.

just a mercenary letting us know in no uncertain terms that she's a mercenary. hella less scary than a lot of other shit that gets barfed down the twitters
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:11 AM on February 14, 2017 [3 favorites]


That's fair, but in context it still feels pretty "what the fuck?" to me. Like, frankly, Putin was as partisan if not more so, and he's the one who is actively trying to overthrow our leadership. Where the fuck is his name on that list?

As context goes, mentioning someone who will be appearing in a dual press conference with Trump within 24 hours doesn't seem all that random to me.
posted by phearlez at 11:11 AM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


That was like watching All The President's Men on salvia
posted by theodolite at 11:12 AM on February 14, 2017 [44 favorites]


That Conway tweet reads like some bizarro mentat mantra she utters every monring.

Cultist gotta Cult.
posted by Artw at 11:13 AM on February 14, 2017 [5 favorites]


The Mar-a-Lago SCIF must be like the bottle of vermouth to people who think a martini is just a cold glass of vodka with an olive.
posted by holgate at 11:14 AM on February 14, 2017 [8 favorites]


Kellyanne Conway ‏@KellyannePolls 1h1 hour ago
More
I serve at the pleasure of @POTUS. His message is my message. His goals are my goals. Uninformed chatter doesn't matter.


It also has an undertone of 'he told me to say full confidence, don't blame me.' [subtext, not a quote]
posted by jaduncan at 11:15 AM on February 14, 2017 [14 favorites]


Re: Conway, I fully support poffin boffin's suggestion of Alaska Thunderfuck or Sharon Needles. It's caaahmedy. How would we have gotten thru 7-Eleven without caaaaahhhhmedy
posted by en forme de poire at 11:17 AM on February 14, 2017 [5 favorites]


Casting idea: Jonathan Banks for Stephen Miller?
posted by The Tensor at 11:17 AM on February 14, 2017




Is it weird that I'm nervous this is happening too soon, and it will be completely forgotten by the time the mid-terms roll around

If it's forgotten by the mid-terms, it'll be because mindblowingly worse shit has come to light.
posted by Existential Dread at 11:18 AM on February 14, 2017 [17 favorites]


Chaffetz didn't like being yelled at it seems like. But Conway seems like the least of those issues. I guess some action is good action?
posted by Carillon at 11:19 AM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


I kind of hate to say it, but do we need to set up a Daily Press Briefing Fanfare for people that want to liveblog reactions so that the main threads don't fill up so fast?

Chat had an elections room as well; that's a totally viable option (pretty quiet there right now)
posted by Existential Dread at 11:19 AM on February 14, 2017 [4 favorites]


Breitbart puts Priebus on notice

Matthew Boyle, Breitbart News’s Washington political editor, citing unnamed sources close to the president, reported that Priebus may be next on the chopping block after the Monday night resignation of national security adviser Michael Flynn.

Someone isn't satisfied with Priebus's late-night ASMR sleepytime skills.
posted by Rust Moranis at 11:19 AM on February 14, 2017 [19 favorites]


I would argue that it ironically makes it much worse. Choosing not to bother to walk five minutes to a secured location when you do not yet know what the documents say or how the situation will develop is something I'd have expected to be on charges for.

But what if getting to it involves Trump's nemesis, stairs
posted by jason_steakums at 11:20 AM on February 14, 2017 [36 favorites]


Nothing about this position makes sense. But then again, nothing about Trump makes sense so maybe it's all true (it's not).

Well, it makes perfect sense if you read it as proof that the administration is weak and disorganized. If they were remotely competent they'd give a short "we knew what was going on all along and our investigations and actions were completed last night" rather than this ongoing leaky no-coherent-message nonsense from multiple people, but they're incompetent as well as being weak and disorganized. So for anyone who knows anything about the internal goings-on of DC it's just more evidence they are about as graceful as a monkey fucking a football.

The more interesting and pertinent stuff is what this looks like to folks outside the political obsessives. I find it impossible to figure, but a lot of that comes from my ongoing cognitive dissonance from having lived through the last twenty years of the cold war and now finding myself living under a Russian stooge as a President and 91% positive Republican voter opinion of VLADAMIR FUCKING PUTIN. So I have come to accept that it might just be impossible for me to understand the "average voter."
posted by phearlez at 11:20 AM on February 14, 2017 [14 favorites]


But what if getting to it involves Trump's nemesis, stairs

and here I thought his nemisis was properly-fitted suits.
posted by Carillon at 11:21 AM on February 14, 2017 [4 favorites]


The real nemesis is a good, stiff wind.
posted by mochapickle at 11:22 AM on February 14, 2017 [14 favorites]


Kellyanne Conway ‏@KellyannePolls 1h1 hour ago
More
I serve at the pleasure of @POTUS. His message is my message. His goals are my goals. My biological and technological distinctiveness has been added to him. Uninformed chatter is futile.
[fake]
posted by thelonius at 11:22 AM on February 14, 2017 [21 favorites]


Well, it makes perfect sense if you read it as proof that the administration is weak and disorganized.

And compromised.
posted by diogenes at 11:23 AM on February 14, 2017 [2 favorites]


Shee-it. Even Rob Ford had a months-long honeymoon period where he was steamrolling the opposition, getting bylaws passed and not firing or accepting the resignation of staffers seemingly every day.
posted by The Card Cheat at 11:23 AM on February 14, 2017 [7 favorites]


Other Nemesii include: Words, facts, women, anyone not white, the growing blob of disorganized tissue in his cerebellum.
posted by Artw at 11:23 AM on February 14, 2017 [13 favorites]


Choosing not to bother to walk five minutes to a secured location when you do not yet know what the documents say or how the situation will develop is something I'd have expected to be on charges for.

The worst part of that is, how awesome must it be for someone to walk up to you in a dining room and say, "Sir, we need you to come to the extremely secure facility because of very important events that we need you to president us through" and then walk out of the room as everyone looks at you and thinks Wow, I'm gonna be able to tell my grandkids about how I was there when that guy presidented us through some very important events? Trump manages even to fuck up being a narcissist poser.
posted by Etrigan at 11:24 AM on February 14, 2017 [71 favorites]


But what if getting to it involves Trump's nemesis, stairs

You know who else's nemesis was stairs?

Daleks.
posted by lowtide at 11:25 AM on February 14, 2017 [54 favorites]


These are some interesting comments from a Republican Congressman (Raúl Labrador, Idaho) about Obamacare:
Something that Republicans need to be concerned about is that if we're just going to replace Obamacare with Obamacare Lite, then it begs the question: Are we just opposed to Obamacare because it was opposed by Democrats? Then we're very hypocritical. Then we're just taking a political position, not a policy based position. What was our fight about the last six years?
...
If all of a sudden we're not worried about pay-fors for our spending, then we've been hypocrites for six years
It's so cute watching a Republican discover IOKIYAR for the first time.

To be clear, Rep. Labrador wants to repeal the whole thing completely and is upset that might not actually happen. But hey, I completely disagree with him on policy, yet he's the only one to have accurately summarized the stupidity of the GOP's position on this right now.
posted by zachlipton at 11:26 AM on February 14, 2017 [127 favorites]


ou know who else's nemesis was stairs?

Daleks.


Great. Now fanboy nerds are going to be all over how Trump can actually fly now.
posted by Artw at 11:27 AM on February 14, 2017 [8 favorites]


In other news: By a vote of 23-15, Republicans just voted to not request President Trump's tax returns from the Treasury Department.

The Republican House Ways and Means Committee's phone number is (202) 225-3625. I just called them and told the staffer who answered that I hope they reconsider their decision.
posted by panic at 11:27 AM on February 14, 2017 [10 favorites]


Do you think they even know how badly this is going, or in their mind is this somehow all part of the plan?

If there is anything I'm sure of on Day 25, it's that there is no plan. These people are clearly just flailing about day by day trying to come up with some not-even-remotely-plausible cover story for the multiple clusterfucks-du-jour. They're the cat who slams facefirst into a cabinet and then gives you a nonchalant "I meant to do that" look.

Even the truly evil Idea Guy plotters of the crew -- Bannon and Miller -- obviously have no damn idea what's going on. It's Keystone Kops all the way down. But I'm sure they're all still positive in their narcissistic Enron-like hubris that they're the smartest fascists of all.
posted by FelliniBlank at 11:27 AM on February 14, 2017 [62 favorites]


You know who else's nemesis was stairs?

Daleks.

*and* Daleks were also famously down on non-billing healthcare providers.
posted by jaduncan at 11:28 AM on February 14, 2017 [23 favorites]


Matthew Boyle, Breitbart News’s Washington political editor, citing unnamed sources close to the president, reported that Priebus may be next on the chopping block after the Monday night resignation of national security adviser Michael Flynn.

Woah, Bannon really has won Kushner over hardcore. This is not what I expected. Batten down the hatches, shit is about to get even weirder. Especially with pushback from OGE etc.
posted by snuffleupagus at 11:29 AM on February 14, 2017 [2 favorites]


A low level SCIF is no big deal. For example in Hillary Clinton's homes in DC and NY it was just a room with a lock on the door. A courier would bring a classified paper document and after reading it in the SCIF room, Clinton would put it in a burn bag.

That's it. No phone. No computer. Just a room with a lock for reading paper classified documents. In some cases an encrypted fax machine.
posted by JackFlash at 11:30 AM on February 14, 2017 [9 favorites]


Pretty sure he just referred to P.M. of Canada "Joe Trudeau".

If you want to pull that shit on a French Canadian you have to say "Guy Trudeau".
posted by srboisvert at 11:31 AM on February 14, 2017 [6 favorites]


Seeing Netanyahu thrown into that list alongside a massive list of US politicians who genuinely are acting in coalition--yes, including Kushner--feels pretty gross to me, and the juxtaposition of a whole bunch of Christian politicians, one Jewish politician who is genuinely in the thick of things, and then Israel invoked out of fucking nowhere to make the point that all of this is about Islamophobia and destroying Muslims is weird.

Netanyahu is a Trump supporter. He approves of the wall.

I would have also included Marine Le Pen, Frauke Petry, the current Polish government, Nigel Farage, and the rest of the European far right on that list. (Along with the other folks already on there like Putin, and Burke, who while a politician of sorts, and American, isn't really an American politician...)

Islamaphobia is a real and growing force right now, worldwide. It's really not just an American thing. I think that's a really really important point for people to realize at this moment, with elections in Europe coming up which will swing the momentum of history one way or the other... And while there's nothing about being prime minister of Israel that means you should get automatically included on a list of Islamaphobic leaders, there's nothing about being prime minister of Israel that should automatically exclude you either, when you've been publicly praising Trump.
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:31 AM on February 14, 2017 [40 favorites]





If Priebus ends up losing to the Bannon faction I wonder if that will make a difference with at least some Republicans in the legislature. I expect that there may be some using Priebus being on the inside and looking after things as part of the justification for quietly going along with everything right now.
posted by Jalliah at 11:32 AM on February 14, 2017 [7 favorites]


A low level SCIF is no big deal. For example in Hillary Clinton's homes in DC and NY it was just a room with a lock on the door. A courier would bring a classified paper document and after reading it in the SCIF room, Clinton would put it in a burn bag.

Still, I have to point out, significantly different from the non-SCIF location 'middle of an ongoing party with cameraphones for lighting'.

Quite aside from the fact that the rooms were doubtlessly swept for bugs and cameras, and were likely to have non-obvious alterations to make spying hard.
posted by jaduncan at 11:33 AM on February 14, 2017 [14 favorites]


The Mar-a-Lago SCIF must be like the bottle of vermouth to people who think a martini is just a cold glass of vodka with an olive.

That is the correct way to make a martini, especially in 2017. Turn over the bottle and count to 5.
posted by snuffleupagus at 11:34 AM on February 14, 2017 [6 favorites]


So there's a lot of uncertainty about whether Trump fired Flynn as Spicer says or Flynn just resigned as Conway says. I don't see the contradiction. When it first happened & it was unknown if the decision would be popular, Flynn resigned. But later on as it became clear it was the right call, Trump retroactively made the decision to have done the firing.
posted by scalefree at 11:34 AM on February 14, 2017 [24 favorites]


> So I have come to accept that it might just be impossible for me to understand the "average voter."

My wife's best friend has some work associates in Alabama, all of whom are (white, Christian, female) Trump supporters; last week she was down there on a business trip and they got to talking about all this shit because, in her words, "I'd like to understand why you support this man." They all said the same things: Hillary would have been worse, you can't trust anything The Media (except Fox News, of course) says, Trump has to do these things to protect us from ISIS, etc., etc., etc.. They live in their own reality and there is no reaching them; any attempt to do so just makes them hostile and suspicious.

Eventually things got a bit heated and in the interest of not getting into a full-blown argument they mutually agreed to disagree and dropped it. But my wife's friend isn't sure she can continue having a friendly relationship with these women (who are of course, in true "banality of evil" style, lovely people on a personal level) outside of work.
posted by The Card Cheat at 11:34 AM on February 14, 2017 [26 favorites]


Eli Lake:
Normally intercepts of U.S. officials and citizens are some of the most tightly held government secrets. This is for good reason. Selectively disclosing details of private conversations monitored by the FBI or NSA gives the permanent state the power to destroy reputations from the cloak of anonymity. This is what police states do.
This is somewhat of a counterpoint to the Greenwald quote I posted up-thread. I don't think it behooves us to ignore how precedents set for the right reasons and for the right outcomes can come back to bite us in the future (as we are now seeing wrt executive power). But I also think that if the government has no mechanism, outside of leaking, to oust bad actors like Flynn, then leaking is what we are going to have to live with.
posted by AceRock at 11:35 AM on February 14, 2017 [13 favorites]


Yeah, they prop up two menus and duck behind them to talk like a coupla dungeon masters

Mostly to reference the house-ruled fumble tables they are obviously playing with.
posted by meinvt at 11:35 AM on February 14, 2017 [5 favorites]


The increasingly essential Matt Negrin of GQ has put together a supercut of stuff Fox News covered as they avoided talking about Flynn.
posted by zachlipton at 11:36 AM on February 14, 2017 [8 favorites]


I expect that there may be some using Priebus being on the inside and looking after things as part of the justification for quietly going along with everything right now.

The thing I don't get about this general line of thinking is Why aren't the Republicans in Congress doing anything? Not anything about impeachment or anything else we want them to do, but literally anything at all. Trump would fucking kill to get some legislation on his desk. Anything to look presidential. It doesn't have to be an un-realignment of one-sixth of the American economy. He'd love to rename a fucking post office right now, and they can't get their shit together enough for that.
posted by Etrigan at 11:37 AM on February 14, 2017 [15 favorites]




Pretty sure he just referred to P.M. of Canada "Joe Trudeau".

A misnomer that was begging for a response of "Joe Who?"

(Maybe that's too Canadian-politics inside baseball, but it still would have been totally hi-lar-i-ous and MISSED OPPORTUNITIES.)
posted by Capt. Renault at 11:37 AM on February 14, 2017 [7 favorites]


So there's a lot of uncertainty about whether Trump fired Flynn as Spicer says or Flynn just resigned as Conway says. I don't see the contradiction. When it first happened & it was unknown if the decision would be popular, Flynn resigned. But later on as it became clear it was the right call, Trump retroactively made the decision to have done the firing.

If the past is any indication what you hear first, the jumbled up mess is closer to what actually happened. Then they finally manage to get at least some of their shit together and we get the 'official' story with the narrative they want to push.

This admin because of leaks and because of generally being disorganized and reactive is really bad and containing events until they can decide on a strategy and get their side out.
posted by Jalliah at 11:38 AM on February 14, 2017


>Spicer claims there's a SCIF (secure comms room) at Mar-A-Lago. Is there?

Humorous gif response, hashtag not real. Wait, hashtag probably not real.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 11:39 AM on February 14, 2017 [15 favorites]


some have resorted to a secret chat app — Confide — that erases messages as soon as they’re read

This likely violates several laws, most notably the Presidential Records Act.
posted by zombieflanders at 11:39 AM on February 14, 2017 [17 favorites]


Trump would fucking kill to get some legislation on his desk. He'd love to rename a fucking post office right now, and they can't get their shit together enough for that.

As Spicer was firing up the rocket skates he used to exit the press room today, he mentioned that they needed to prep for a bill signing.
posted by uncleozzy at 11:40 AM on February 14, 2017 [6 favorites]


I feel like we just need one or two Rs to jump into the center of the aisle and be the champion of sanity in Congress, just get the ball rolling. This person would be a hero. We would hold this person up as a national treasure. Surely there is some power-hungry congressperson that would help simply for the chance to revel in that power and glory!! Who's on the fence? Who can we persuade?
posted by archimago at 11:40 AM on February 14, 2017 [13 favorites]


INT - PRESS SECRETARY'S OFFICE

SPICEY leans back in his chair, catching his breath from his high-speed exit from the briefing room.

SPICEY, to himself: ahhhhhhhhh, I think I cleared all that up pretty well.

A beat. A Washington Post headline appears on his screen: Trump knew Flynn misled officials on Russia calls for ‘weeks,’ White House says

SPICEY: Wait. What did I say in there?
posted by zachlipton at 11:42 AM on February 14, 2017 [50 favorites]


I feel like we just need one or two Rs to jump into the center of the aisle and be the champion of sanity in Congress, just get the ball rolling. This person would be a hero. We would hold this person up as a national treasure. Surely there is some power-hungry congressperson that would help simply for the chance to revel in that power and glory!! Who's on the fence? Who can we persuade?

Really, as much as I think he's someone who I dislike on a personal and political level, Ted Cruz really, really messed up by not taking the bet on Trump's failure by sticking with the one true conservative/#nevertrump stance.
posted by jaduncan at 11:42 AM on February 14, 2017 [16 favorites]


I feel like we just need one or two Rs to jump into the center of the aisle and be the champion of sanity in Congress, just get the ball rolling. This person would be a hero. We would hold this person up as a national treasure. Surely there is some power-hungry congressperson that would help simply for the chance to revel in that power and glory!! Who's on the fence? Who can we persuade?

This has been true for a month or six.

How long are these threads surviving these days?

About a tenth the length of an National Security Advisor's tenure, I think.
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:42 AM on February 14, 2017 [39 favorites]


Jason Chaffetz is requesting details from the W.H. on security protocols regarding sensitive information at Mar-a-Lago. [Tweet with image of Chaffetz's letter]

He gets a little fighty about this and Conway shilling Ivanka's brand but Russia stuff? What Russia stuff? la la la la chaffy can't hear youuu
posted by jason_steakums at 11:44 AM on February 14, 2017 [9 favorites]


As Spicer was firing up the rocket skates he used to exit the press room today, he mentioned that they needed to prep for a bill signing.

Honest question: What's the press secretary's role in that? Or did he have to wrap it up so others present at the daily briefing could attend?
posted by mochapickle at 11:44 AM on February 14, 2017


meanwhile, he signs his first bill.

we can dump waste in the water again? wtf. no evens.
posted by waitangi at 11:44 AM on February 14, 2017 [7 favorites]


What's the press secretary's role in that? Spicy is moonlighting as comms director, because no one wants the poisoned chalice.
posted by snuffleupagus at 11:45 AM on February 14, 2017


If the past is any indication what you hear first, the jumbled up mess is closer to what actually happened. Then they finally manage to get at least some of their shit together and we get the 'official' story with the narrative they want to push.

I prefer my model of Trump having a special ability to make retroactive decisions, possibly by using a quantum computer brought to our time from the future. It explains so much. He can be on both sides of an issue for months until he acts & it turns out he was really on one side & not the other all along.
posted by scalefree at 11:49 AM on February 14, 2017 [2 favorites]


that press conference made my brain imagine this scene happening in the cabinet room

but it's only a fantasy because there's no way trump is that self-aware
posted by murphy slaw at 11:50 AM on February 14, 2017 [4 favorites]


we can dump waste in the water again? wtf. no evens.

GOP - Jobs ft. Lil Don

When I walk to the stream
All eyes on me
I'm watching them dump coal sludge
Bottled water is free
We like tailings
We love that slurry
We came to dump sludge
Everybody it's on

JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS
JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS
JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS
EVERYBODY
posted by Talez at 11:50 AM on February 14, 2017 [6 favorites]


Really, as much as I think he's someone who I dislike on a personal and political level, Ted Cruz really, really messed up by not taking the bet on Trump's failure by sticking with the one true conservative/#nevertrump stance.

He could rally Amash and the rest of the Freedom Caucus crew on the House side with promises of getting back at Ryan for Huelskamp, it's well within his ability and would tip both chambers for a temporary anti-Trump alliance... but he's a coward, he'll make a big show of turning on Trump if it comes to that but he'll be one of the last people to turn.
posted by jason_steakums at 11:51 AM on February 14, 2017


Spicy is moonlighting as comms director, because no one wants the poisoned chalice.

That's one of those things that I know but I keep forgetting because everything else is so weird but that is SO WEIRD that my brain refuses to keep it as a memory. Like it makes the staffing of the White House on Scandal seem normal
posted by MCMikeNamara at 11:51 AM on February 14, 2017 [2 favorites]


some have resorted to a secret chat app — Confide — that erases messages as soon as they’re read

This likely violates several laws, most notably the Presidential Records Act.


I saw some folks speculating on Twitter that the Records Act doesn't explicitly mention text chat/SMS, so there's a gray area where you could argue that they're ephemeral conversations like phone calls that don't need to be retained. Dunno how valid that is.
posted by tobascodagama at 11:51 AM on February 14, 2017


Apropos of nothing, I just received an alert on my phone that DC HSEMA's (Homeland Security and Emergency Management Agency for the District of Columbia) 24-hour watch center (JAHOC, the Joint All-Hazards Operations Center) is having telephone problems and is intermittently unable to be reached by phone. Instead, people in DC needing to contact HSEMA are being asked to use one of two cell numbers.

Funny how a telecom glitch can feel so incredibly unsettling these days, innit? (And by funny I mean where is the nearest fallout shelter)
posted by Westringia F. at 11:51 AM on February 14, 2017 [7 favorites]


How long are these threads surviving these days?

About a tenth the length of an National Security Advisor's tenure, I think.


Maybe this will be a unit of measure in the current Presidency: A Flynn

Q: "How long until the president signs a piece of legislation?"

A: " At least 4 Flynns"

Q: "Will the president cooperate with an investigation?"

A: "We'll know in about half a Flynn"

Q: "How often will the president skip off to m-a-l ?"

A: " Three times per Flynn"

and so forth
posted by OHenryPacey at 11:52 AM on February 14, 2017 [29 favorites]


Lol, Breitbart on Priebus:
Many other potential [Eileen] Yateses—holdovers from the Obama administration who have found their way into spots throughout the Trump administration—await throughout government.

“They’re hiding like sleeper cells everywhere,” one source said.

White House and other government sources say there are as many as 50 of them throughout government, and Priebus has full knowledge of their whereabouts, who they are, and what potential for damage they may cause. He is not doing anything about it, these sources add.
posted by AceRock at 11:53 AM on February 14, 2017 [9 favorites]


I prefer my model of Trump having a special ability to make retroactive decisions, possibly by using a quantum computer brought to our time from the future. It explains so much. He can be on both sides of an issue for months until he acts & it turns out he was really on one side & not the other all along.


It's like Schrödinger took a crap in a box...
posted by darkstar at 11:53 AM on February 14, 2017 [6 favorites]


Spicy is moonlighting as comms director, because no one wants the poisoned chalice.

Having your communications director and press secretary be the same person is also one of those "Well, on the West Wing..." things. (Youtube).
posted by AndrewInDC at 11:55 AM on February 14, 2017 [3 favorites]


Many other potential [Eileen] Yateses—holdovers from the Obama administration who have found their way into spots throughout the Trump administration—await throughout government.


uh, they're still there because you haven't gotten around to appointing their replacements yet, you doofuses
posted by murphy slaw at 11:55 AM on February 14, 2017 [26 favorites]


White House and other government sources say there are as many as 50 of them throughout government, and Priebus has full knowledge of their whereabouts, who they are, and what potential for damage they may cause. He is not doing anything about it, these sources add.
You can't blackmail an innocent person. That's kind of the point of blackmail. If you weren't all corrupt morons, the "potential for damage" would be zero.
posted by Etrigan at 11:56 AM on February 14, 2017 [25 favorites]


Maybe this will be a unit of measure in the current Presidency: A Flynn

I like this! A Flynn is exactly 1/3 of a Kardashian.
posted by everybody had matching towels at 11:56 AM on February 14, 2017 [14 favorites]


I saw some folks speculating on Twitter that the Records Act doesn't explicitly mention text chat/SMS, so there's a gray area where you could argue that they're ephemeral conversations like phone calls that don't need to be retained. Dunno how valid that is.

It absolutely isn't:
The Federal Records Act was amended in November 2014 and added a new definition for electronic messages at 44 U.S.C. 2911. The law states, “The term ‘electronic messages’ means electronic mail and other electronic messaging systems that are used for purposes of communicating between individuals.”

Electronic messaging systems allow users to send communications in real-time or for later viewing. They are used to send messages from one account to another account or from one account to many accounts. Many systems also support the use of attachments. They can reside on agency networks and devices, on personal devices, or be hosted by third party providers.

The following table includes a non-exhaustive list of types of electronic messaging and examples.

[...]
Chat/Instant messaging Google Chat, Skype for Business, IBM Sametime, Novell Groupwise Messenger, Facebook Messaging
[...]
Text messaging, also known as Multimedia Messaging Service (MMS) and Short Message Service (SMS)
[...]
Other messaging platforms or apps, such as social media or mobile device applications. These include text, media, and voice messages. Twitter Direct Message, Slack, Snapchat, WhatsApp, Pigeon, Yammer, Jive, or other internal collaboration networks
posted by jaduncan at 11:56 AM on February 14, 2017 [55 favorites]


I'm picturing Trump's inevitable downfall being heralded by a muffled "GODDAMN IT" coming out of some closed-door meeting of an investigation Chaffetz was positive wouldn't connect to Trump/Russia stuff but Trump and his underlings couldn't fail to blunder their way into even the most unrelated issue with something incriminating.
posted by jason_steakums at 11:57 AM on February 14, 2017 [16 favorites]


Trump would fucking kill to get some legislation on his desk. He'd love to rename a fucking post office right now, and they can't get their shit together enough for that.

Trump signed the very first bill of his administration today. Draining the swamp? Nope, weakening Dodd Frank by repealing a rule aimed to root out corruption by requiring oil, gas and mining companies to disclose payments made to foreign governments in exchange for access to natural resources.

You know -- like Tillerson at Exxon and Russia. Can't have that sort of thing in the open. That's the very first piece of legislation passed by Republicans and signed by Trump.

Priorities.
posted by JackFlash at 11:58 AM on February 14, 2017 [93 favorites]


some have resorted to a secret chat app — Confide — that erases messages as soon as they’re read

I have it on good authority that confide is a bad app from an infosec perspective so they're introducing vulnerabilities onto their phones in the process.
posted by scalefree at 11:59 AM on February 14, 2017 [12 favorites]


I like this! A Flynn is exactly 1/3 of a Kardashian.

Future scholars are going to be puzzled why the barbaric twenty first century used these strange units of time.
posted by Talez at 11:59 AM on February 14, 2017 [6 favorites]


Future scholars

Optimist.
posted by Etrigan at 12:01 PM on February 14, 2017 [73 favorites]


Re: Trump's tax returns. There has been a lawsuit filed over violations the Emoluments Clause (led by Norm Eisen, Richard Painter and others). We haven't heard as much about it recently because, according to Norm Eisen's twitter, the DOJ has 60 days to file a reply, which is on or around March 1st. I'm guessing we'll hear more about it after that.

As part of the suit, there's a good chance that the lawyers could force his tax returns through discovery:

There is some suggestion that CREW’s team may hope (and indeed have reason) to declare victory if awarded enough discovery to pry the President’s tax returns out of his hands. In announcing the suit, CREW’s Chair has stated that “President Trump is the first president in decades not to release his tax returns. Seventy five percent of Americans want to see the President’s tax returns and so do we. We will seek those in discovery in this case in order to establish the details of the emoluments clause violations here.”
posted by triggerfinger at 12:02 PM on February 14, 2017 [19 favorites]




Jason Chaffetz is requesting details from the W.H. on security protocols regarding sensitive information at Mar-a-Lago.

Since Chaffetz is so very, very concerned about information security, he may want to look into why the White House allowed Michael Flynn access to classified and sensitive information and let him continue to hold his security clearance for weeks after the White House was told he was vulnerable to Russian blackmail. That seems just as serious as the "cellphones as light sources" problem.
posted by FelliniBlank at 12:04 PM on February 14, 2017 [44 favorites]


have it on good authority that confide is a bad app from an infosec perspective so they're introducing vulnerabilities onto their phones in the process.


Shocking.
posted by darkstar at 12:04 PM on February 14, 2017 [5 favorites]


Future scholars

Optimist.


Who is to say that the beetle civilization to come won't do good academic work?
posted by Artw at 12:05 PM on February 14, 2017 [43 favorites]



The Mar-a-Lago SCIF must be like the bottle of vermouth to people who think a martini is just a cold glass of vodka with an olive.

That is the correct way to make a martini, especially in 2017. Turn over the bottle and count to 5.
posted by snuffleupagus at 11:34 AM on February 14


Trump's president, I can't afford the $2 upcharge for chilled vodka in a fancy glass and maintain the minimum BAC needed to make it through the day. Any glass is also a waste of time.
posted by ghost phoneme at 12:05 PM on February 14, 2017 [2 favorites]


Lil'Don remix feat. YelloBoi:

PULL THE ANTHRACITE OUT YO HOLES
TILL THIS COAL RUNS DCs HALLS
TILL ALL Y'ALLS RUST BELTS FALL


CULM CULM CULM ALL YOU GOBBERS
CULM IN THE WATER IS NOW PLANNED
posted by snuffleupagus at 12:06 PM on February 14, 2017 [2 favorites]


So again: "we found some emails on Anthony Weiner's laptop" requires a full grade public FBI freakout, yet "we were investigating the brand new National Security Advisor in his first couple days on the job" gets not a word from Comey.
posted by zachlipton at 12:06 PM on February 14, 2017 [128 favorites]


I'm a traditionalist so all this talk of Flynns & Kardashians as names for units of time is rather confusing. Just give it to us in plain old Friedman Units.
posted by scalefree at 12:07 PM on February 14, 2017 [8 favorites]


NYT:
F.B.I. agents interviewed Michael T. Flynn when he was national security adviser in the first days of the Trump administration [before Sally Yates warned the WH about Flynn] about his conversations with the Russian ambassador, current and former officials said on Tuesday.

The interview raises the stakes of what so far has been a political scandal that cost Mr. Flynn his job. If he was not entirely honest with the F.B.I., it could expose Mr. Flynn to a felony charge.
posted by AceRock at 12:07 PM on February 14, 2017 [11 favorites]


Any glass is also a waste of time.

I agree, but my lips keep sticking to the bottle.
posted by snuffleupagus at 12:07 PM on February 14, 2017 [5 favorites]


Who is to say that the beetle civilization to come won't do good academic work?

Dear beetle scholars,

This place is not a place of honor. No highly esteemed deed is commemorated here. Nothing valued is here. This place is a message and part of a system of messages. Pay attention to it! Sending this message was important to us. We considered ourselves to be a powerful culture.
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:09 PM on February 14, 2017 [116 favorites]


Question: In what world would a prospective National Security Advisor contact Russia about US foreign policy and that is not at the request of the president elect?

Is this a trick question regarding FSB handlers?

Joke aside, quite possibly GRU in his case if he was talking to someone. The comments about having a rapport with GRU leadership were wince inducing.
posted by jaduncan at 12:11 PM on February 14, 2017 [5 favorites]


>weakening Dodd Frank by repealing a rule aimed to root out corruption by requiring oil, gas and mining companies to disclose payments made to foreign governments in exchange for access to natural resources.

Link for this?
posted by Sing Or Swim at 12:12 PM on February 14, 2017


Question: In what world would a prospective National Security Advisor contact Russia about US foreign policy and that is not at the request of the president elect?

I think the reasoning goes something like this...

General Jack D. Ripper: Mandrake, do you recall what Clemenceau once said about war?

Group Capt. Lionel Mandrake: No, I don't think I do, sir, no.

General Jack D. Ripper: He said war was too important to be left to the generals. When he said that, 50 years ago, he might have been right. But today, war is too important to be left to politicians. They have neither the time, the training, nor the inclination for strategic thought. I can no longer sit back and allow Communist infiltration, Communist indoctrination, Communist subversion and the international Communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 12:13 PM on February 14, 2017 [15 favorites]


All that has to happen is for Trump to testify in front of Congress. The probability of a lie emerging from him is quite close to 1, and it's all over after that.
posted by Dashy at 12:16 PM on February 14, 2017 [21 favorites]


government sources say there are as many as 50 of themcommunists throughout government, and PriebusPresident Truman has full knowledge of their whereabouts, who they are, and what potential for damage they may cause. He is not doing anything about it, these sources add.

Remember to set your watches back sixty-five years this weekend!

On preview: Jinx, BentFranklin!
posted by Quindar Beep at 12:16 PM on February 14, 2017 [7 favorites]


Yesterday at the bar I saw (closed captioning) someone say Flynn made a "successful statement," regarding Iran. Is that a common thing to say that I've just never noticed before, or have things gotten so bad for this administration that a statement not immediately needing clarification/walking back needs to be marked as a victory?
posted by ghost phoneme at 12:17 PM on February 14, 2017 [7 favorites]


Is that a common thing to say that I've just never noticed before, or have things gotten so bad for this administration that a statement not immediately needing clarification/walking back needs to be marked as a victory?

The latter. Did you really need to ask?
posted by Rust Moranis at 12:18 PM on February 14, 2017 [4 favorites]


this is the kind of thing that happens when you put people in power who don't understand how government works, and thinks you can just stop in there and run things any old way you feel like.

Obama was pretty much a Washington outsider and didn't seem to have these problems. The democratic party people he brought in had not been in federal positions for 8 years.

Inexperience or outsiderism isn't issue.

It's that the Republican party is fundamentally opposed to good governance.

The keys to the bus have been handed to a smash up derby driver.
posted by srboisvert at 12:18 PM on February 14, 2017 [43 favorites]


Link for this?

Try googling "Trump signs bill". Given he has only signed one, you can't go wrong.
posted by JackFlash at 12:18 PM on February 14, 2017 [5 favorites]


Exactly; it was a success in exactly the same way that any press conference in which Trump doesn't poop himself is a success.
posted by Justinian at 12:18 PM on February 14, 2017 [2 favorites]


Flynn: I was sent on a classified mission, sir.
Trump: It's no longer classified, is it? Did they tell you?
Flynn: They told me that you had gone totally insane, and that your methods were unsound.
Trump: Are my methods unsound?
Flynn: I don't see any method at all, sir.
posted by kirkaracha at 12:19 PM on February 14, 2017 [13 favorites]




And if the democrats didn't kill the filibuster then, Republicans would have killed it now, and we wouldn't have flipped the DC Circuit. Stop acting like the filibuster still exists, it's been dead since about 2007, except for the Republicans of course. Democrats were never going to be allowed to use it again after the Bush years.

Also, the filibuster on non-SCOTUS nominees was killed in response to Republicans using it to block nominations whose qualifications they completely supported in order to give a middle finger to the administration. The system was breaking down regardless.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 12:21 PM on February 14, 2017 [30 favorites]


It's that the Republican party is fundamentally opposed to good governance.

The keys to the bus have been handed to a smash up derby driver.


Declinism in action:

[W]hen Western countries actually do experience decline, it’s because people have elected a declinist. Pessimistic leaders tend to respond by doing things – closing borders to trade and immigration, restricting minorities, ending international co-operation, starting wars – that end up fulfilling their prophecies of decline.

That is the basic paradox of declinism: It’s simple-minded fiction, unless you believe in it and turn it into policy. Then, in your hands, it becomes history

posted by mandolin conspiracy at 12:22 PM on February 14, 2017 [61 favorites]


White House and other government sources say there are as many as 50 of them throughout government
Speaking before the Ohio County Women’s Republican Club in Wheeling, West Virginia, Senator McCarthy waved before his audience a piece of paper. According to the only published newspaper account of the speech, McCarthy said that, “I have here in my hand a list of 205 [State Department employees] that were known to the Secretary of State as being members of the Communist Party and who nevertheless are still working and shaping the policy of the State Department.” In the next few weeks, the number fluctuated wildly, with McCarthy stating at various times that there were 57, or 81, or 10 communists in the Department of State. In fact, McCarthy never produced any solid evidence that there was even one communist in the State Department.
Put up or shut up, brah.
posted by kirkaracha at 12:22 PM on February 14, 2017 [18 favorites]


Kellyanne Conway Claims She Doesn’t Know Who Retweeted A White Nationalist From Her Twitter Account

Equal parts "are you fucking kidding me?" and "why do you think this makes it look better?"
posted by zombieflanders at 12:22 PM on February 14, 2017 [67 favorites]


Obama was pretty much a Washington outsider and didn't seem to have these problems. The democratic party people he brought in had not been in federal positions for 8 years.

He might have been a Washington outsider (. . . kind of, I mean he was a sitting senator beforehand), but he was also a constitutional law professor, which may give one insight as to what would be considered constitutional.
posted by dinty_moore at 12:22 PM on February 14, 2017 [22 favorites]


Trump: Are my methods unsound?

We're way ahead of schedule!
posted by Justinian at 12:22 PM on February 14, 2017 [9 favorites]


of course, in the dark enlightenment alt-right pepe the frog ideology, a cover story that makes no sense is a sign of great strength, like a handshake that attempts to dislocate somebody's shoulder. garbled nonsense is very alpha
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:23 PM on February 14, 2017 [11 favorites]


Kellyanne Conway Claims She Doesn’t Know Who Retweeted A White Nationalist From Her Twitter Account

Well, I'm having trouble telling from his profile photo whether it's actually this Seth Connell guy that Spicey just lent the megaphone to, or someone else from the same outfit, but if it is he's an open totalitarian.
posted by snuffleupagus at 12:25 PM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


I was honestly flabbergasted at the phrase, but then wondered if it was a BEC moment rather than as horrible as it thought it was. I can now mock guilt-free.

I may need to up my BAC levels again.
posted by ghost phoneme at 12:26 PM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


Aren't they all open totalitarians?
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:26 PM on February 14, 2017


Not that open.
posted by snuffleupagus at 12:27 PM on February 14, 2017


snuffle, that quote is anti-totalitarian.
posted by prefpara at 12:27 PM on February 14, 2017 [6 favorites]


This place is not a place of honor. No highly esteemed deed is commemorated here. Nothing valued is here. This place is a message and part of a system of messages. Pay attention to it! Sending this message was important to us. We considered ourselves to be a powerful culture.

oh god it's too real
posted by biogeo at 12:27 PM on February 14, 2017 [9 favorites]


It does makes the abuse of the word 'Federalist' even more tragically hilarious than usual though.
posted by snuffleupagus at 12:28 PM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


uh, that statement from Hayek is anti-totalitarian (in the sense that he considers redistributionism inherently totalitarian)
posted by murphy slaw at 12:29 PM on February 14, 2017


snuffle, that quote is anti-totalitarian.

Yeah, OK, I guess I could credit him with using it as actually intended. Instead of the way it mis-reads.
posted by snuffleupagus at 12:29 PM on February 14, 2017


But now it's not as funny and I need another martini.
posted by snuffleupagus at 12:32 PM on February 14, 2017 [6 favorites]


From way back in the thread, but:

Trump asked a principal today about whether she’s seen a rise in autism

If only there were some government agency tasked with collecting nationwide data on disease he could ask about that, rather than having to rely on the judgment of one principal who a) is not qualified to diagnose autism, b) does not systematically collect data on autism among her students, c) probably would not have a large enough sample size to draw a statistically significant conclusion (barring a truly massive increase in the incidence of autism), and d) has a geographically limited sample.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 12:32 PM on February 14, 2017 [82 favorites]


Justinian: We're way ahead of schedule!

"What are they going to say about him? What? Are they going to say he was a kind man? He was a wise man? He had plans? He had wisdom? Bullshiiit, man!"
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 12:34 PM on February 14, 2017 [8 favorites]


Oh my god, that's his plan. Get rid of the agencies, then bring them back and claim credit for creating them. He's the asshole boss who trashes your idea then steals it.
posted by ghost phoneme at 12:36 PM on February 14, 2017 [3 favorites]


Why turn to data where there's a corrupt deal to be made?

DeVos Won't Shed Stake in Biofeedback Company
Betsy DeVos, the billionaire school choice advocate selected by President Donald J. Trump to serve as education secretary, is a strong supporter of using biofeedback technology to help children and teenagers enhance their performance in school.
Ms. DeVos and her husband, Richard DeVos Jr., are major financial backers of Neurocore, a Michigan company that operates drug-free “brain performance centers” that claim to have worked with 10,000 children and adults to overcome problems with attention deficit disorder, autism, sleeplessness and stress.
...
The company’s website claims impressive outcomes: for example, that 90 percent of people with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder report improvement and 76 percent “achieve a nonclinical status.” But Neurocore has not published results in the peer-reviewed literature.
posted by snuffleupagus at 12:36 PM on February 14, 2017 [44 favorites]


The company's called Neurocore.

Of course it is.
posted by allthinky at 12:38 PM on February 14, 2017 [16 favorites]


The "Incurious Orange" hypothesis on Flynn's calls, point by point. Kicker: "Why would Flynn speak to Kislyak at all if he never told anyone that he did it even when it would have made him look good? It makes no sense."
posted by holgate at 12:38 PM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


@denormalize on twitter
Today Trump removed all open data (9GB) from the White House https://open.whitehouse.gov/browse but I grabbed it all Jan 20! Will distribute soon
posted by paper chromatographologist at 12:39 PM on February 14, 2017 [64 favorites]


This WaPo article catches something I missed:
Spicer said that "the evolving and eroding level of trust as a result of a series of other issues is what led the president to ask for General Flynn's resignation."
Other issues, eh Spicy? I mean we were just talking about the one but hey let's just flip over the log and see what crawls out.
posted by jason_steakums at 12:40 PM on February 14, 2017 [10 favorites]


Uh this is hard to follow. Didn't McConnell say no this morning? Did I misremember or is it changing this fast?

McConnell: Flynn investigation 'highly likely' in Senate committee
posted by Jalliah at 12:40 PM on February 14, 2017 [5 favorites]


Well, I'm having trouble telling from his profile photo whether it's actually this Seth Connell guy that Spicey just lent the megaphone to, or someone else from the same outfit, but if it is he's an open totalitarian.

No it's just some random racist on Twitter offering support & love. Nice happy tweet. Horrible person, obvious racist. She didn't check the profile & now she's scrambling.
posted by scalefree at 12:40 PM on February 14, 2017


The company's called Neurocore.

I wonder if biofeedback will be too much Woo for the 'Merika brigades. It'd be darkly amusing if it's a conservative distaste for alternative therapy and not the stink of corruption or incompetence that gets rid of her.
posted by snuffleupagus at 12:41 PM on February 14, 2017 [4 favorites]


The company's called Neurocore.

I'm sorry, I seem to have gotten my Cyberpunk: 2020 game mixed up with this politics thread.
posted by nubs at 12:41 PM on February 14, 2017 [32 favorites]


The company's called Neurocore.

The name of my Neurocore band is 3Jane and the Wintermutes.
posted by Strange Interlude at 12:44 PM on February 14, 2017 [89 favorites]


Why turn to data where there's a corrupt deal to be made?

Hang all the ghouls and scorch the earth from whence they sprung.

I wonder if biofeedback will be too much Woo for the 'Merika brigades.

Haha, no, they don't actually give enough of a shit to call for DeVos' head over it, even if they find out. (As if Fox News is actually going to cover a story about actual government corruption.) The most I expect to happen is for the Office of Government Ethics to fire up an investigation like they're doing for Conway. And who knows if either of those investigations will actually come with teeth?
posted by tobascodagama at 12:48 PM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


SNL’s portrayal of Steve Bannon has Trump “especially upset”
It’s not the depiction of Bannon as the Grim Reaper that bothers Trump—the voice is undeniably male, after all— but the fact that the sketch ends with Trump addressing Bannon as “Mr. President” before giving up the big desk to go play with his toys. It’s the same sore spot that caused Trump to Tweet out, “I call my own shots, largely based on an accumulation of data, and everyone knows it” on February 6. Suuuuure, buddy. And you put the Scotch tape on your tie all by yourself, too.
Jackpot! Keep it up, SNL.
posted by Servo5678 at 12:48 PM on February 14, 2017 [89 favorites]


The timelines are really messed up here. To put it all in one place, here are the two versions of the timeline (see also The fall of Michael Flynn: A timeline, from which this list is derived). For classification, I've put the White House timeline in regular text and the bits the White House is pretending never happened in square brackets.

[Pre-election: Flynn talks to the Russian Ambassador]
[December 6: Pence, apparently misled by Flynn, tries to claim Flynn's son never had a security clearance requested for him and wasn't acting in an official capacity, when he had a government email account]
December 29: Flynn talks to the Russian Ambassador about whatever [five times], does absolutely nothing wrong
[December 29: Sanctions come down, and Russia says it will retaliate by expelling US diplomats/spies, then changes its mind]
[December 31: Trump, in response to Russia's decision, tweets: "Great move on delay (by V. Putin) - I always knew he was very smart!" This raises obvious questions about whether Trump was simply reacting to the news or was a participant in making it happen.]
[January 12: Reports come out about the Flynn calls and people immediately notice they took place the same day as the sanctions drama. Serious Questions are asked.]
Mid-January: Flynn tells Pence that he didn't talk about sanctions [because people are asking whether Flynn violated the Logan Act and/or committed some light treason]
January 15: Pence goes on Face the Nation and repeats what Flynn told him [Pence also claimed it was only one call]
[Sometime around January 22nd: The FBI interviews Flynn]
January 26: Sally Yates tells the White House Counsel that Flynn lied and therefore could be blackmailed. White House Counsel determines "immediately" that Flynn acted legally, though Spicer also claimed that Flynn stayed in his position so long because it was being reviewed
[January 31: Yates is fired, for other well-known reasons, but one has to ask whether this played a role]
[January 8: Flynn tells reporters twice that he didn't discuss sanctions during the calls]
[January 9: Flynn's spokesman attempts to unring the bell, says he can't remember discussing sanctions but he's not sure]
[January 10: Trump tells reporters he knows nothing of the reports on the Flynn situation]
February 13: Conway goes on TV and says Flynn has the "full confidence" of the President
[February 13: report comes out about Yates's warning]
February 13, literally one hour after Conway spoke: Spicer puts out a statement that doesn't express any confidence in Flynn whatsoever
February 13, a couple more hours later: Flynn resigns. [Administration officials push the narrative that he left voluntarily.]
February 14: Spicer says Trump asked Flynn to go because Trump's trust in Flynn has actually been "eroding" all along and that Trump had been reviewing the situation for weeks

So from all this, it's pretty obvious that the White House knew something was up at least by January 12, because they were being asked questions about the calls. They definitely should have known by the 26th, because the FBI would have interviewed Flynn by then and Yates called them up to let them know. Then they swept the whole thing under the rug for weeks and were prepared to do so forever as late as Monday afternoon, until the report about the Yates call came out. Only then did Trump fire him like a dog (or did he? there's a contradiction here too).

That means that they clearly knew Flynn was lying on January 8th and tried to ignore it too. It also means that Conway and/or Conway were lying and/or hopelessly uninformed, because she claimed Flynn had Trump's "full confidence" at the same time Spicer claims the trust was "eroding" and Flynn was under review.

The real unanswered questions are what was going on with the calls before the election and what the President's involvement was. Specifically, was Trump involved in discussions with the Russians asking them not to expel US diplomats?
posted by zachlipton at 12:51 PM on February 14, 2017 [92 favorites]


Neurocore

I'm a professional neuroscientist. After looking at this company's website, I'm prepared to lay 100:1 odds that this is bullshit.
posted by biogeo at 12:52 PM on February 14, 2017 [78 favorites]



I wonder if biofeedback will be too much Woo for the 'Merika brigades


Omg have you met these people? They love woo! The wooier the better! As long as it's not eastern mysticism or smacking of crypto-paganism they are all over it. The stereotype of woo being concentrated among the left-leaning is way outdated.
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:53 PM on February 14, 2017 [49 favorites]


Specifically, was Trump involved in discussions with the Russians asking them not to expel US diplomats?

Is that the issue, or is it did Trump have knowledge and/or coordination with the Wikileaks releases? We have to dig waaay back through the compounding treasons here, but isn't that the original sin?
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:54 PM on February 14, 2017 [5 favorites]


Nazis fucking love woo, have you not seen Indiana Jones?
posted by Artw at 12:54 PM on February 14, 2017 [30 favorites]


maybe somebody at the Smithsonian can get Trump fixated on hunting down the Spear of Longinus or some shit
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:56 PM on February 14, 2017 [20 favorites]


President John Quincy Adams failed in his quest to discover the hollow interior of the Earth. C'mon, Donald, you can find it!
posted by biogeo at 12:58 PM on February 14, 2017 [8 favorites]


3Jane and the Wintermutes

You named yourself after the spoiled child of an unethical, paranoid, wealthy family who skirts the law and lives in a secluded resort out of reach of the millions of people they've exploited over the years?

Too soon.
posted by cmfletcher at 12:59 PM on February 14, 2017 [12 favorites]


The stereotype of woo being concentrated among the left-leaning is way outdated.

The Teapartiest of the Tea Partiers I have ever encountered is a Gluten-Free, GMO-Free, Pesticide-Free, Fruit-Juice-Toxin-Cleansing, Copper-Memory-Bracelet wearing woo believing racist shitbag. He even carries a power crystal in his pocket.

The woo respects not your political stereotypes.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 1:01 PM on February 14, 2017 [49 favorites]


Does anyone know what was on the Open Data page that's gone now?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:02 PM on February 14, 2017


This is fucking reprehensible. Why was all the focus during confirmation on vouchers and bears? This shit is actually fucking of the wall embarrassingly corrupt.

https://www.neurocorecenters.com/treatment/autism/
Children who have been diagnosed with autism spectrum disorder (ASD) have unique brain wave patterns. At Neurocore, we analyze the brain to understand how to best reduce the symptoms of ASD and improve the overall quality of life of the child and his or her family. [....]

There is currently no cure for ASD, but associated symptoms, including possible co-occurring ADHD or anxiety, may be reduced through Neurocore’s natural treatment program. First, we use advanced qEEG technology to identify what brain activity is behind the symptoms. Next, we use multiple neurofeedback sessions to train the brain to self-regulate and optimize its performance, resulting in a more calm and focused state.

Research shows that neurofeedback can be an effective treatment. One study demonstrated a 26% reduction in reported symptoms on the Autism Treatment Evaluation Checklists (ATEC). Another study noted improvements in executive functioning, thought to be a central concern in autism. Parents in another study reported improved communication and social skills following neurofeedback.

That last study had a sample size of 13 individuals.
Neurocore may be covered by your insurance

Many insurance plans cover Neurocore’s services. We provide a FREE insurance consultation prior to the time of the initial neurological assessment to inform clients if and how much will be covered.

You may be able to use your Health Savings Account (HSA) for Neurocore services.

In Michigan, we are an in-network partner for Blue Cross Blue Shield (BCBS) and Blue Care Network (BCN) and will directly bill your insurance for your convenience. If you are not a BCBS or BCN member, your out-of-network insurance may provide coverage for our program.

Of course. And now they'll get Dept of Ed money too. Maybe HHS. Disgusting.
posted by snuffleupagus at 1:02 PM on February 14, 2017 [50 favorites]


So on a scale of 1 to Iran-Contras, does it look like this look more like a 3 or a 6?
posted by Carillon at 1:02 PM on February 14, 2017 [4 favorites]


The Flynn stuff, not the blatant corruption of DeVos.
posted by Carillon at 1:03 PM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


For the record, Maddow had been covering the Neurocore study several times. This isn't news. Sometimes (often), Rachel Maddow is 100% on point.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:03 PM on February 14, 2017 [14 favorites]


I wonder if biofeedback will be too much Woo for the 'Merika brigades

Omg have you met these people? They love woo! The wooier the better!


I didn't realize the streams had merged to that extent. I know what you mean, but I feel like there's still a fair amount of contempt for Woo that comes off as touchy-feely. But I guess Neuocore's pitch sort of avoids that.

E-meters for the masses. Sigh.
posted by snuffleupagus at 1:04 PM on February 14, 2017 [4 favorites]


For the record, Maddow had been covering the Neurocore study several times. This isn't news.

Just because one journalist has covered a topic in the past doesn't mean it's not news.
posted by biogeo at 1:05 PM on February 14, 2017 [6 favorites]


The Teapartiest of the Tea Partiers I have ever encountered is a Gluten-Free, GMO-Free, Pesticide-Free, Fruit-Juice-Toxin-Cleansing, Copper-Memory-Bracelet wearing woo believing racist shitbag. He even carries a power crystal in his pocket.

Hey! One of these things is not like the others.
posted by Existential Dread at 1:05 PM on February 14, 2017 [9 favorites]


For the record, Maddow had been covering the Neurocore study several times. This isn't news.

Maybe not news, but it wasn't being hammered like the other DeVos stuff and it seems way deadlier to me.
posted by snuffleupagus at 1:06 PM on February 14, 2017


Just because one journalist has covered a topic in the past doesn't mean it's not news.

But a lot of people pooh-pooh Rachel Maddow here, and call her pedantic and off-point. She isn't.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:06 PM on February 14, 2017 [8 favorites]


oh man from the "O'Connell says Flynn investigation likely" article in WaPo:

But Cornyn, the Senate majority whip, was not ready to say Flynn should testify before Congress.
"I think it's symbolic of somebody with a distinguished military career making a bad mistake," Cornyn said of Flynn.


maybe you should have a goddamn investigation to see if that's the case and HOW BAD THE MISTAKE WAS YOU ASSHAT
posted by murphy slaw at 1:07 PM on February 14, 2017 [18 favorites]


In the sample group of people I know, the Copper-Fit advocates are mostly self described conservatives. There's huckster medicine throughout the political spectrum.
posted by cmfletcher at 1:08 PM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


This is fucking reprehensible. Why was all the focus during confirmation on vouchers and bears? This shit is actually fucking of the wall embarrassingly corrupt.

https://www.neurocorecenters.com/treatment/autism/


I think Neurocore is very similar to Pence's repellent views about gay conversion therapy. There's so much horrible shit out there that certain communities (gay/autistic) are very focused on things that scare the shit out of them but they get lost in all the noise.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 1:10 PM on February 14, 2017 [12 favorites]


Put up or shut up, brah.

Good fucking LORD I wish the press would just yell that at every single spokeshead in the Trump administration and nothing else. It would save us all so much time.

Thankfully we're starting to see glimpses of it:

FEC to Trump: Show us the Voter Fraud.
posted by JoeZydeco at 1:10 PM on February 14, 2017 [29 favorites]


(In other words, as somebody who lives with a gay man with autism, I'm surprised to hear that it wasn't common knowledge because of my own bubble.)
posted by MCMikeNamara at 1:11 PM on February 14, 2017 [3 favorites]


what in the world does "distinguished military career" have to do with making bad mistakes? it reads to me like someone who has had such a career is more likely to make poor decisions?
posted by INFJ at 1:12 PM on February 14, 2017


"Please hand in your resignation!!" - Donald Trump, The President Bannon's Apprentice
posted by tilde at 1:12 PM on February 14, 2017


So much hucksterism in the fringe circles. The Alex Jones track on the Election Profit Makers mixtape (thank you, Kid Midas) had a long cut of him advertising his own InfoWars nutritional supplement.

I imagine there's a huge overlap between that and people who'd buy a misspelled commemorative poster.

All I can think of today is a paraphrase from the MST3K episode Manos. "When is [this administration] going to start showing some simple competence?!"
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 1:12 PM on February 14, 2017 [7 favorites]


It means you can't criticize them because then you'd be not Supporting Our Troops, INFJ
posted by flatluigi at 1:13 PM on February 14, 2017 [4 favorites]


This is fucking reprehensible. Why was all the focus during confirmation on vouchers and bears? This shit is actually fucking of the wall embarrassingly corrupt.

And hey, Amway employees get a $100 discount! Way to get some wages paid right back in woo-profits, DeVos family!
posted by FelliniBlank at 1:14 PM on February 14, 2017 [5 favorites]


My WTF meter is broken.
My Sarcasm Detector is unneeded; this administration is oblivious to sarcasm.
My Oh-Dear-Lord-Hope-Me-They're-In-So-Far-Over-Everybody's-Heads danger flag is flying, unheeded, in the cold, cold, painful light of week 4 of Republican Congress + Republican President who is losing it, bad.

I knew it would be scary. I figured it would be terrifying to see the GOP get their way. This daily meltdown shit is only a little bit satisfying because there are Dangers out there, to say nothing of here in the US, and they are all seeing that things are so far out of control. I don't think it's overreacting to be out here on this ledge. The company's good, but it's real crowded.
posted by theora55 at 1:14 PM on February 14, 2017 [17 favorites]


People who lack critical thinking skills and who are terrified of everything are the target demographic for many, many different flavors of scam. For many years, these con artists have been actively and openly using political conservatism as a proxy for "gullible" in their marketing targeting.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:15 PM on February 14, 2017 [47 favorites]


And hey, Amway employees get a $100 discount!

Wait, can I get a [real/fake] tag?
posted by biogeo at 1:16 PM on February 14, 2017 [5 favorites]


The rule that allowed these incompetent cabinet secretaries to waltz in on a 50+1 vote? That was instituted by Democrats, not Republicans, who thought checks and balances and needing to find compromise was inconvenient.

"Inconvenient" might not fit the description of what was going on, and this deserves a closer look by anybody who's willing to take it. Because sometimes, unless you're paying close attention enough to what "both sides are doing" to weigh in on what the fight was about, it's easy to miss people who are not acting in good faith.

The Republican minority in the Senate was not acting in good faith. They were doing the same kind of thing they were doing with Merrick Garland -- seeing how far they could push what was allowed by the rules because they could. Everybody who is acting in good faith knows full well Garland was exactly the kind of compromise choice that should normally have made it through a checks-and-balances system.

I think it's worth looking at The Myth of Republican Obstructionism, in One Chart, because it gives a picture of what the Republican narrative is. It's one that acknowledges that some "paint a picture of unprecedented obstruction" ... but of naturally the press is not telling you the real truth, right? Consider these (more or less true) observations:

*"Obama ended up with three more judicial confirmations than his Republican predecessor"
*"Obama appointed two of the eight current members of the U.S. Supreme Court."
*"liberal judges now control nine of the 13 federal appeals courts. That’s a staggering 70 percent."
*"Obama had a Democrat-led Senate for six of his eight years in office"

If you're not a critical examiner of what these imply, you might well come away thinking "oh, yeah, charges of obstructionism are poorly founded."

If you are, though, you might well realize:
* Number of confirmations alone is a misleading measure. Confirmations vs vacancies would tell you more. And it would seem more vacancies were a fact and were creating problems.
* Two SC appointments is median. Average is slightly higher (2.6). And those figures include one term presidents (like Bush 41). In any case, three SC vacancies came up under Obama's term, and you have to look back at least 50 years to find any comparable vacancy length and back to contentious pre-civil war periods for anything resembling a precedent for a straight-up refusal to let a President fill a seat. And, again, that's with a nominee like Garland who was a compromise choice from the start. The response was to make up a fake precedent about not confirming during election years.
* This one is really beautiful piece of misdirection -- a decided majority of courts controlled by liberal judges! Leaving aside the use of "liberal" as name-calling (or the important question of exactly who decides the justice is "liberal")... what exactly would you expect after 8 years of appointments? Well, it turns out at the end of Bush 43, you had 12/13 courts with majority Republican appointees. Suddenly 9/13 appeals courts having majority Democratic appointees looks anemic by comparison.
* Obama did have a D Senate for a while. That meant relatively smooth sailing for all of a few months with a supermajority. The rest of the time, Republican Senators used Senate confirmation rules to pursue a strategy of gaming the confirmations process not to moderate appointments, but, like with Garland, to try and kneecap any appointments at all, partly to shape the courts, partly to try and keep the executive from functioning effectively.

Seriously. Consider the history. Ask yourself if there were really no attempts to compromise. Consider that senior Senate Democrats were reported as being very proud of their good-faith deal-making to avoid the rule changes... and then found that again, Republicans filibustered more judges and executive-branch nominees.

In November 2013, when the rule changes were made, 168 presidential nominees had been filibustered over US history. 82 of those were Obama's.

Who didn't think about the implications and reasons why it was important for these cabinet secretaries to have broad support - in part, because they are in the goddamned Presidential order of succession. Tillerson? In line to be Pres. DeVos? In line to be Pres. Jeff Sessions? In the line.

I think they thought about them. I think they thought about them very carefully, to the point where they looked for another way to get things done for years, and tried to make deals and compromises.

And it became obvious that they were dealing with the kind of people who would reject a compromise like Merrick Garland, just because they could. And this was their only option if elections were still going to have consequences.

Trump's cabinet is what it is because of the people who voted for Trump, and because of those Senators who voted to confirm members of the cabinet.

The responsibility doesn't really belong anywhere else.

The responsibility for ending the filibuster belongs largely with those who brought its abuse to a new order of magnitude, though it's probably fair to share it with those who voted to end it, as long as one works to understand their reasons why.
posted by wildblueyonder at 1:17 PM on February 14, 2017 [181 favorites]


Obama was pretty much a Washington outsider and didn't seem to have these problems.

Oh, he did. There were various cocktail party stories I heard about dopey stuff that came out of the WH in the early months. My personal favorite was the one about how a staffer indignantly asked why there'd be this big cost estimate involved in shutting down Gitmo. The quote went something like "how does it cost that much for the last person to just turn off the lights?" My friend had to explain that moving a thousand people and support staff and securing a base wasn't exactly free.

But that's small ball, because the undoubtedly low level staffer who shoved their foot in their mouth (metaphorically since the doof actually wrote that in an email, FFS) took that input from a professional in government service and listened to it while assuming they were competent. The administration, through whatever fuckups, enlisted intelligent people and moved methodically. They didn't copy and paste EOs and they talked to lawyers and planned for success rather than just assuming they could do whatever they wanted.
posted by phearlez at 1:18 PM on February 14, 2017 [13 favorites]


And hey, Amway employees get a $100 discount!

Wait, can I get a [real/fake] tag?


Absolutely real, my friend.
posted by FelliniBlank at 1:18 PM on February 14, 2017 [23 favorites]


I fucking hate this timeline.
posted by biogeo at 1:19 PM on February 14, 2017 [47 favorites]


Okay, everybody who kept saying how horrible it is to elect "Washington Insiders" - this is the kind of thing that happens when you put people in power who don't understand how government works,.....This is the gold standard now for why we don't elect someone with zero political experience........How deep does it go?

How deep do things go? How deep are you allowed to look? And what happens when you DO look - any actual repercussions not for the looker but for the 'insider' if 'untoward' things are found?

"Washington Insiders" is what brought you the $8000+ Dollar propane tanks delivered to troops in Iraq. Or the whatever the bill is for that new joint forces jet that isn't quite working.

What happens to Bunnatine Greenhouse, Sibel Edmonds, Thomas Drake, William Binney, Chelsia Manning, Edward Snowden and many others who try to bring forward and help the public answer "how deep"? How about Gary Webb or Danny Casolaro - how's looking into finding the answer "how deep" working out for them?

How does just turning your back on a public official work out? Ray MCGovern has an idea, and Sheriff Clarke thinks you can just go punch out someone who something quiet and non violent like that.

If one goes with the answer of 'there are no problems with Washington Insiders' - then by all means it *IS* horrible to not keep picking people who "understand how government works" and anyone who finds an issue must have a mental illness.
posted by rough ashlar at 1:21 PM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


So on a scale of 1 to Iran-Contras, does it look like this look more like a 3 or a 6?

Well, considering Trump doesn't have Joan Quigley to read the stars for him and manage things, it's probably two or three Flynns of Iran-Contras.
posted by dis_integration at 1:21 PM on February 14, 2017


Don't forget about Stan Jones, the libertarian pol who made a couple of unsuccessful runs for US Senate and governor in Montana in the early 2000s. He developed argyria (permanent blue-grey coloration of the skin) due to ingestion of colloidal silver, which he was making and dosing himself with because he was convinced that the Y2K bug was going to make it impossible to procure antibiotics. Right wing types have never been immune to woo.
posted by Strange Interlude at 1:22 PM on February 14, 2017 [17 favorites]


The Teapartiest of the Tea Partiers I have ever encountered is a Gluten-Free, GMO-Free, Pesticide-Free, Fruit-Juice-Toxin-Cleansing, Copper-Memory-Bracelet wearing woo believing racist shitbag. He even carries a power crystal in his pocket.

The woo respects not your political stereotypes.


Yeah my biggest brush with this is my girlfriend's brother, who will not vote for her healthcare while she deals with cancer but he sure thinks gifting her a fucking polished rock with healing powers will make up for it.

The woo is a hop, skip and a jump away from "pray it away" and the Christian principles of these people are malleable as silly putty so it makes sense they'd latch on to crystal healing bullshit and not see the weird incompatibility with their supposed religion. Plus, y'know, voting against your own healthcare interests leaves you pretty desperate for any answer that isn't "I was wrong."
posted by jason_steakums at 1:25 PM on February 14, 2017 [20 favorites]


Also if you're super into the woo, it gives you an excuse to be heartless about health care because people don't need doctors and hospitals, man, they just need to think positive and not eat gluten! Our healthcare problems are solved! Anyone who needs expensive medical care did it to themselves by not following the All Woo Diet and thinking happy thoughts.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:26 PM on February 14, 2017 [29 favorites]


How much do you want to bet the the administration starts saber-rattling Russia over the missiles? It would have two big advantages for them: deflect attention from the current scandals, and "prove" they're not in bed with the Russians.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 1:27 PM on February 14, 2017


Or, jinx, jason_steakums
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:28 PM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


Absolutely real, my friend.

Scroll down for the autographed picture of Betsy DeVos's brother-in-law (I think) posing in front of a private jet. What kind of asshole does that?
posted by zachlipton at 1:28 PM on February 14, 2017 [2 favorites]


Over the course of my life thus far I've known more than a few people - of widely varying political affiliations - who would rather jump out a 5th-floor window than say "I was wrong," or in some cases even "I don't know."
posted by The Card Cheat at 1:29 PM on February 14, 2017 [6 favorites]


Anyone who needs expensive medical care did it to themselves by not following the All Woo Diet and thinking happy thoughts.

AKA the Just World hypothesis. Not even doctors are immune to this one; when I got my cancer diagnosis I had told the oncologist that I am a chemist and he immediately started speculating about what exposures I had subjected myself to.

OTOH, Stan Jones' hilarious argyria might lend credence to the Just World hypothesis.
posted by Existential Dread at 1:29 PM on February 14, 2017 [8 favorites]


A traditional martini doesn't use vodka, it uses gin, you chucklefucks.

Gin and waft the glass in the general direction of Italy.
posted by Talez at 1:29 PM on February 14, 2017 [15 favorites]


How much do you want to bet the the administration starts saber-rattling Russia over the missiles? It would have two big advantages for them: deflect attention from the current scandals, and "prove" they're not in bed with the Russians.

This doesn't exactly work if they're really in bed with the Russians. Putin holds all the cards here and Trump knows it. Trump can't rattle any sabers when he's busy balancing a towering pallet of kompromat on top of them.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:30 PM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


Anyone who needs expensive medical care did it to themselves by not following the All Woo Diet and thinking happy thoughts.

And not praying enough or the right way or to the right god.
posted by cooker girl at 1:30 PM on February 14, 2017 [2 favorites]




any convergence of getting drunk and eating olives is a martini
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:32 PM on February 14, 2017 [47 favorites]


giddily pouring in a fucking Russian spirit

Just preparing for life under our new Russian Overlords. And giddily isn't the right term.

Plus I like gin too much to mix with vermouth.
posted by ghost phoneme at 1:32 PM on February 14, 2017 [2 favorites]


I make martinis by putting the gin in the freezer.

That's it.

That's the recipe.
posted by dis_integration at 1:32 PM on February 14, 2017 [51 favorites]


On the bright side for Trump and Putin, one thing nobody is talking about today is those forbidden Russian cruise missiles.
posted by zachlipton at 1:33 PM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


Please don't post pictures of that Trump martini ever again. Just thinking about it turns my stomach.
posted by Justinian at 1:33 PM on February 14, 2017 [18 favorites]


Let's all remember what Trump himself said four days ago about his knowledge of the Flynn situation and compare that with what Spicey said about the timeline today.
posted by FelliniBlank at 1:33 PM on February 14, 2017 [7 favorites]


NSFL warning needed, roomthreeseventeen.
posted by ghost phoneme at 1:34 PM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


Sorry, sorry. I hope you all have better looking martinis tonight. I am planning to!
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:35 PM on February 14, 2017 [4 favorites]


> Actually it could be a way for Putin to make Trump look good. I predict: Trump threatens and Putin backs down. All according to plan.

But then when Trump is basking in the adulation of the crowd...WHAT'S THIS? PUTIN'S GOT A FOREIGN OBJECT!
posted by The Card Cheat at 1:36 PM on February 14, 2017


Bah, gin, I only drink jenever !!!
posted by Pendragon at 1:36 PM on February 14, 2017 [5 favorites]


Tequila. It makes me happy.
posted by Talez at 1:37 PM on February 14, 2017 [3 favorites]


None of you assholes will - or should - get out of this with your careers intact.

The Trump experience is a collection of other words to describe what is now going on.
I'd say the word Trump rises to being its OWN word to describe - like Nixon, Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot are their own words to describe the shitstorms those people were.

To call 'em anything other than Trump weakens what is gonna become the Trump branding.

Every brand needs a jingle - what's gonna be the song that becomes the ear-worm for the Trump brand?
posted by rough ashlar at 1:37 PM on February 14, 2017 [3 favorites]


Dan Rather says "On a 10 scale of armageddon for our form of government, I would put Watergate at a 9. This Russia scandal is currently somewhere around a 5 or 6, in my opinion, but it is cascading in intensity seemingly by the hour."


I believe Dan Rather knows his shit.

Edit: I don't know how to make a facebeek link
posted by waitangi at 1:37 PM on February 14, 2017 [26 favorites]




Bah, gin, I only drink jenever !!!

and jenever stop talking about it
posted by murphy slaw at 1:38 PM on February 14, 2017 [28 favorites]


Please don't post pictures of that Trump martini ever again. Just thinking about it turns my stomach.

It took me longer than I'm willing to admit to figure out what is wrong in that picture.
posted by Existential Dread at 1:38 PM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


If the Republicans turn on the PVL (though I have my doubts), the question they should all have to answer repeatedly is:

WHERE THE FUCK WAS YOUR OPPOSITION BEFORE HE WAS IN THE WHITE HOUSE?!
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 1:39 PM on February 14, 2017 [3 favorites]


I'm drinking scofflaws tonight. First served in Paris, but named for those who continued drinking in defiance of Prohibition.
posted by ghost phoneme at 1:39 PM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


It took me longer than I'm willing to admit to figure out what is wrong in that picture.

hint: everything
posted by murphy slaw at 1:39 PM on February 14, 2017 [13 favorites]


Kellyanne Conway Claims She Doesn’t Know Who Retweeted A White Nationalist From Her Twitter Account

So we should assume that all her passwords have been compromised and her clearance has been revoked bu the WH right?
posted by PenDevil at 1:41 PM on February 14, 2017 [18 favorites]


Well the olive looked nice.
posted by Carillon at 1:41 PM on February 14, 2017


It's the same tactic the adminstration uses. Do everything wrong, and it's hard to know where to start.
posted by ghost phoneme at 1:41 PM on February 14, 2017 [11 favorites]


Yeah, I don't even like martinis and I know that drink is a terrible crime against mixology and customer service.
posted by The Card Cheat at 1:42 PM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


Oh hey, there's a Russian spy ship hanging out near Delaware today.
posted by FelliniBlank at 1:42 PM on February 14, 2017 [10 favorites]


*sips martini*
posted by FelliniBlank at 1:43 PM on February 14, 2017 [5 favorites]


That Trump martini reminds of all the stupid, ignorant posturing about gin-only martinis, but they fucked it up and used olive brine instead of the gin. And I'm not even gonna get started on the glass or the vodka.

In unrelated Fuckheadsylvania news, apparently the new talking point is that blocking a woman who wants to eliminate public schools from entering a public school is exactly the same as blocking desegregation. Seriously. (There's a fucking awful political cartoon going around as well, but it's too fucking awful to even link to.)
posted by tobascodagama at 1:43 PM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


But then when Trump is basking in the adulation of the crowd...WHAT'S THIS? PUTIN'S GOT A FOREIGN OBJECT!
posted by The Card Cheat at 3:36 PM on February 14
[+] [!]

Bah, gin, I only drink jenever !!!
posted by Pendragon at 3:36 PM on February 14
[+] [!]


You followed up a wrestling gag with a comment starting with "Bah" and I had this confusing moment of reading gin opinions in Jim Ross' voice. BAH GAWD KING THAT'S TOO MANY OLIVES
posted by jason_steakums at 1:44 PM on February 14, 2017 [5 favorites]


Does anyone know what was on the Open Data page that's gone now?

Internet archive shows Obama stuff until 1/26. Now it says: Check back soon for new data.

I guess they're still making it up.
posted by Room 641-A at 1:45 PM on February 14, 2017


In unrelated Fuckheadsylvania news, apparently the new talking point is that blocking a woman who wants to eliminate public schools from entering a public school is exactly the same as blocking desegregation. Seriously.

Denying that the Southern Strategy was a thing, or still forms the core of the Republican base to this day, is one of their favorite rhetorical devices. See also: "Lincoln was a Republican" and "the Democrats are the party of the KKK".
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:46 PM on February 14, 2017 [24 favorites]


Oh hey, there's a Russian spy ship hanging out near Delaware today.

And the ship was previously near Havana, so its course to Delaware would have taken it directly past Mar-a-Lago recently.
posted by FelliniBlank at 1:47 PM on February 14, 2017 [26 favorites]


As Malcolm Tucker puts it in The Thick of It, this is an omnishambles. It's like watching a clown running across a minefield.

I wonder how many Trump voters are experiencing buyer's remorse already.
posted by daveje at 1:47 PM on February 14, 2017 [14 favorites]


Putin's just like openly mocking and fucking with us all now, isn't he?
posted by FelliniBlank at 1:48 PM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


(There's a fucking awful political cartoon going around as well, but it's too fucking awful to even link to.)

I get not wanting to send awful people traffic, but some of us are both curious and masochistic
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:49 PM on February 14, 2017 [2 favorites]


A traditional martini doesn't use vodka, it uses gin, you chucklefucks.

Go comb some more pomade into your moustache, and then when you're done bring me the vodka from the freezer.
posted by snuffleupagus at 1:50 PM on February 14, 2017 [15 favorites]


Just google "Betsy DeVos Ruby Bridges" and have a bucket ready.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 1:51 PM on February 14, 2017 [7 favorites]


I get not wanting to send awful people traffic, but some of us are both curious and masochistic

Well, you asked.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:51 PM on February 14, 2017 [5 favorites]


And the ship was previously near Havana, so its course to Delaware would have taken it directly past Mar-a-Lago recently.

Mensch keeps going on about Rybolovlev's plane being in the area during the Mar-a-Lago trip too - crowded place, maybe the room where Donnie pored over NK reports in public was the only one without Russian spies around!
posted by jason_steakums at 1:53 PM on February 14, 2017 [2 favorites]


Well, you asked.

holy mother of god
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:54 PM on February 14, 2017 [45 favorites]


Let's all remember what Trump himself said four days ago about his knowledge of the Flynn situation and compare that with what Spicey said about the timeline today.

During today's press conference, Spicer tried to skate past that by saying that Trump was asked specifically about the Washington Post article, and was only claiming that he hadn't seen that.

But on the tape, the reporter asks "What do you make about reports that General Flynn..."
posted by diogenes at 1:54 PM on February 14, 2017 [5 favorites]


Can we lock each member of this adminstration in a room with Malcolm Tucker? Just fifteen minutes each should suffice.

Also, I'm not sure that the guy who isn't calling chilled vodka by a fancy name is the stuffy one.

Not that we should judge anyone for their drinking choices in these dark times.
posted by ghost phoneme at 1:54 PM on February 14, 2017 [4 favorites]


Kellyanne Conway Claims She Doesn’t Know Who Retweeted A White Nationalist From Her Twitter Account

If she doesn't know who's posting from her account, she should lose "verified" status. The whole point of "verified" is "the public knows who said this."
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 1:56 PM on February 14, 2017 [52 favorites]


@SteveKopack: "OGE to WH: 'There is strong reason to believe that Ms. Conway has violated the Standards of Conduct and...disciplinary action is warranted.”'
posted by Doktor Zed at 1:57 PM on February 14, 2017 [11 favorites]


And I'll cede vodka to Putin as readily as the countries that produce it. Fuck. That.
posted by snuffleupagus at 1:58 PM on February 14, 2017 [3 favorites]


And I'll cede vodka to Putin as readily as the countries that produce it. Fuck. That.

I'm fortunate in that there's a distillery in Boston that actually makes pretty good vodka for not too much money. Stoli, my previous go-to, is dead to me however.
posted by tobascodagama at 2:00 PM on February 14, 2017


Mod note: Folks, let's cap the liquor side discussion, trying to keep these threads from becoming a million comments on the first day.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 2:04 PM on February 14, 2017 [22 favorites]


The stereotype of woo being concentrated among the left-leaning is way outdated.

One of the ongoing points of contention I had with my now-estranged Trump-supporting mother was her long-term involvement with something called Celebrate Recovery, which was a church-run 12-step program where the leadership had no formal training with and mostly no experience with actual drug and alcohol addiction, and they had actual drug addicts in recovery doing the program alongside people with "all types of habits, hurts, and hang-ups"... which meant they'd profess success when someone who was recovering from a bad divorce seemed to be doing better, and ignore the fact that, for example, my mom on several occasions let a man with a serious drug and alcohol problem live in her house for weeks or months at a time, and every single time he relapsed.

At no point did they ever seek help from actual professionals or urge him to go to a proper rehab program.

Because all you need is Jesus.

My mom is not a member of some fringe Quiverfull kind of group. Celebrate Recovery is being currently run through, they claim, more than 29,000 churches. I didn't realize it was something that really existed on that scale until very recently. I know from her past involvement that there are similar programs for financial counseling that, for example, insist that you have to tithe before you pay down debt. But realizing the scale of these things, now, is seriously intimidating. Most people are only in public education until age 18. The number of years your church gets to influence your thinking grossly exceeds the number of years the schools get, and I think that's where these things come from. Everything my mom got out of her public education from 1957-1970 has long since been supplanted with information from Moody Radio.
posted by Sequence at 2:06 PM on February 14, 2017 [37 favorites]


Egg calling it like it is!

@Evan_McMullin: Republican leaders who cite Flynn's alleged lies to Pence as his primary offense are obscuring the real issue: White House ties to Moscow.
posted by diogenes at 2:07 PM on February 14, 2017 [71 favorites]


I don't know how to make a facebeek link

If you clink on the time under the poster's name, that gives you a direct link.

Here's the one you quoted.
posted by jammer at 2:13 PM on February 14, 2017 [2 favorites]


I wonder how many Trump voters are experiencing buyer's remorse already.

Found some!

Iowa Police Officers/Firefighters: We Didn't Vote Republican To Get Stabbed In the Back.
posted by JoeZydeco at 2:14 PM on February 14, 2017 [14 favorites]


I would so love for Pence to get tied up in this.
posted by diogenes at 2:15 PM on February 14, 2017 [9 favorites]


"I think it's symbolic of somebody with a distinguished military career making a bad mistake," Cornyn said of Flynn.

Whoops! I repeatedly treasoned! I'm so clumsy. Sorry not sorry.
posted by srboisvert at 2:15 PM on February 14, 2017 [7 favorites]


Stoli, my previous go-to, is dead to me however.

Whyever so? In its current incarnation, it's Latvian, the brand's managers have made a couple-few statements of support for LGBT issues they didn't have to, and above all it comes in a 100-proof variety.
posted by adamgreenfield at 2:15 PM on February 14, 2017 [6 favorites]


I'm thinking fucking around with Pence like this:


NBC: Sources tell NBC News that VP Pence was informed of DOJ warning about Flynn 11 days after White House and Pres. Trump knew


Is the only thing that will get Repubs in Congress off their asses because they see him as their guy and their um, trump card vs the 45 admin.
posted by ghharr at 2:15 PM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


I would so love for Pence to get tied up in this.

Isn't it exactly the opposite?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:16 PM on February 14, 2017


I would so love for Pence to get tied up in this.

Can they be impeached at the same time? Would Pence have to officially be President for like, an hour?
posted by waitingtoderail at 2:18 PM on February 14, 2017 [3 favorites]


Found some!

Iowa Police Officers/Firefighters: We Didn't Vote Republican To Get Stabbed In the Back.


And here I was just having a discussion with some local Dems about finding law enforcement people to run as Dems locally since that would be an easier sell to the rural crowd... and lo and behold, there's our sheriff making a good case for it.
posted by jason_steakums at 2:21 PM on February 14, 2017 [12 favorites]


New fantasy: we get a lefty majority in Congress in 2018 followed swiftly by a double impeachment.

Thanks, Metafilter!
posted by schadenfrau at 2:23 PM on February 14, 2017 [4 favorites]


President Pelosi?
posted by Justinian at 2:24 PM on February 14, 2017 [2 favorites]


Egg calling it like it is!

I love Pod Save America's suggestion for Egg to primary the fuck out of Chaffetz.
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:25 PM on February 14, 2017 [37 favorites]


Whyever so? In its current incarnation, it's Latvian

You buy Stoli, you support the economy of a Baltic state! The SPI-branded Stoli bottled in Latvia does contain some Russian-sourced distillates, though, IIRC.

If that bothers you, Finlandia is another good anti-Putin choice.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 2:25 PM on February 14, 2017 [5 favorites]


Can they be impeached at the same time? Would Pence have to officially be President for like, an hour?

Yes, they can be impeached at the same time as I understand it; the US Constitution says that
The President, Vice President, and all civil Officers of the United States shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other High Crimes and Misdemeanors.
[my emphasis]
Pence, as VP, is a "civil Officer" and is therefore vulnerable to impeachment. I presume everybody else in the Presidential line of succession is too, but I don't know.
posted by Joe in Australia at 2:25 PM on February 14, 2017 [2 favorites]


I can't tell if the article is supposed to be good for Pence or not. On one hand, the fact that he was out of the loop for 11 days distances him a bit. But it means that he knew the truth after he told the public the exact opposite, and he didn't do anything to correct the record.
posted by diogenes at 2:25 PM on February 14, 2017 [4 favorites]


President Pelosi?
posted by Justinian at 2:24 PM on February 14 [+] [!]


Okay so if indulging in unrealistic dreams about the institutions of electoral democracy bringing down Trump, can't we dream a little bit bigger? Forget President Nancy Pelosi. It's time for President Barbara Lee.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 2:25 PM on February 14, 2017 [25 favorites]


Can they be impeached at the same time? Would Pence have to officially be President for like, an hour?

If he feels the least bit vulnerable, Trump will probably throw Pence under the bus next, get him to resign in disgrace, and then appoint someone so fucking terrible to replace him that no one will dare impeach Trump himself.
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:27 PM on February 14, 2017 [3 favorites]


But it means that he knew the truth after he told the public the exact opposite, and he didn't do anything to correct the record.

It also means Donald Trump held off telling his Vice President a really fucking important detail for what reason?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:27 PM on February 14, 2017 [9 favorites]


Just google "Betsy DeVos Ruby Bridges" and have a bucket ready.

Good god. For those of you wondering... what comes up is possibly the worst political cartoon I have ever seen.
posted by AceRock at 2:27 PM on February 14, 2017 [11 favorites]


If he feels the least bit vulnerable, Trump will probably throw Pence under the bus next, get him to resign in disgrace, and then appoint someone so fucking terrible to replace him that no one will dare impeach Trump himself.

IDK, Vice-President would really be a step down for President Bannon.
posted by Existential Dread at 2:28 PM on February 14, 2017 [6 favorites]


It also means Donald Trump held off telling his Vice President a really fucking important detail for what reason?

Yeah, that's a bit odd...
posted by diogenes at 2:28 PM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


Glenn McCoy is a real piece of shit cartoonist and has done many similarly hateful cartoons. If you decide to look for them, bring some brain bleach.
posted by emjaybee at 2:30 PM on February 14, 2017 [2 favorites]


then appoint someone so fucking terrible to replace him that no one will dare impeach Trump himself.

I always thought that was the idea behind Pence.
posted by daveje at 2:31 PM on February 14, 2017 [12 favorites]


It also means Donald Trump held off telling his Vice President a really fucking important detail for what reason?

You know, I believe that Trump doesn't tell Pence anything. Why would he? He's not collegial or fraternal or cooperative. He's Trump, and he's not going to waste his Twittering time with a fool whose only purpose is to someday replace him. There's good reason to believe that Pence did know, but it's not going to be because Trump condescended to help him prepare.
posted by Joe in Australia at 2:31 PM on February 14, 2017 [13 favorites]


Incidentally, why are people speculating about which celebrities should portray Conway on SNL? Did something happen to Kate McKinnon that I didn't hear about?

But I read somewhere that Christine Baranski may be up for it and how on earth could she not?
posted by dilettante at 2:32 PM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


But I read somewhere that Christine Baranski may be up for it and how on earth could she not?

She volunteered for DeVos.
posted by chris24 at 2:34 PM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


Can they be impeached at the same time? Would Pence have to officially be President for like, an hour?

You can't impeach a president and vice president for the same crime! #georgebluth #ihavetheworstfuckinglawyers
posted by jason_steakums at 2:36 PM on February 14, 2017 [24 favorites]


The NYT story on Flynn being interviewed by the FBI has been updated to add that "investigators believed that Mr. Flynn was not entirely forthcoming, the officials said." In other words, the anonymous sources don't just want us to know that the FBI interviewed Flynn; they want us to know that he lied to the FBI too.

As we watch to see who Flynn's replacement will be, note that Petraeus was also charged with lying to the FBI, though he only pled guilty to mishandling classified information.
posted by zachlipton at 2:37 PM on February 14, 2017 [23 favorites]


In first under Trump, Russian jets buzzed a U.S. destroyer at close range
Multiple Russian aircraft buzzed a U.S. destroyer patrolling in the Black Sea last week, in an incident the captain of the American ship called “unsafe,” the Pentagon said Tuesday.
...
During the campaign, President Trump had suggested that such incidents show “how low we’ve gone that they can toy with us like that.” He said that Russian President Vladimir Putin should be warned in a phone call to stop and if the flybys continued then “when that sucker comes by you, you gotta shoot.”
We are all going to die.
posted by zachlipton at 2:38 PM on February 14, 2017 [37 favorites]


If Flynn isn't charged with a felony we know the fix is in (again). He might cop to something lesser, like Petraeus, but he should be charged with a felony.
posted by Justinian at 2:40 PM on February 14, 2017 [5 favorites]


But I read somewhere that Christine Baranski may be up for it and how on earth could she not?

She volunteered for DeVos.


You're right, she did and would be perfect for that. I am just conflating all my Trumpian horror figures together.
posted by dilettante at 2:41 PM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


Carl Bildt, former PM of Sweden, tweeted this today:

Sudden test of readiness of military forces along Russia's Nordic/Baltic borders. Readiness for what?
posted by stonepharisee at 2:42 PM on February 14, 2017 [9 favorites]


what in the world does "distinguished military career" have to do with making bad mistakes? it reads to me like someone who has had such a career is more likely to make poor decisions?

This strikes me as similar to when a male high school athlete has committed some egregious crime (typical sexual assault stories) where a horde of unwittingly-evil-by-nature people come forward and ring their hands about how charging the lad with crimes will "wreck his life" or "ruin his future." White guys in uniforms of all kinds are pardoned a whole spectrum of crimes if they were pretty good at the thing they did in the uniform. Or, you know, if they just wore the uniform.
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:43 PM on February 14, 2017 [27 favorites]


During the campaign, President Trump had suggested that such incidents show “how low we’ve gone that they can toy with us like that.”

don't worry, now it's just a playful buzz between friends who respect each other's strength
posted by prize bull octorok at 2:43 PM on February 14, 2017 [3 favorites]


But I read somewhere that Christine Baranski may be up for it and how on earth could she not?

It's just weird is all. Like, it would make sense if McKinnon was generally thought to be doing a bad job (e.g., Fred Armisen as Obama from several years back) but it's my understanding that her Conway is widely considered to be a highlight of the current SNL season. And yet people are all like: "Ooh, I know who we should replace her with—Australian comic sensation Yahoo Serious!!"
posted by Atom Eyes at 2:45 PM on February 14, 2017 [4 favorites]


his own InfoWars nutritional supplement.

Is this the one with the high metals content? Some of 'em being heavy metals?

Because taking a sample and getting the metal values is a testable thing. Unlike The Machine Elves.
posted by rough ashlar at 2:45 PM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


Well, theoretically you could have Kate playing some other Trump player and then have Baranski fill in because even Kate can't do 2 costumes at once.
posted by jenfullmoon at 2:46 PM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


Declinism in action:

[W]hen Western countries actually do experience decline, it’s because people have elected a declinist. Pessimistic leaders tend to respond by doing things – closing borders to trade and immigration, restricting minorities, ending international co-operation, starting wars – that end up fulfilling their prophecies of decline.

That is the basic paradox of declinism: It’s simple-minded fiction, unless you believe in it and turn it into policy. Then, in your hands, it becomes history
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 2:22 PM on February 14 [15 favorites +] [!]
In all of this mess my mind keeps going back to the quote attributed to Karl Rove:
The aide said that guys like me were "in what we call the reality-based community," which he defined as people who "believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality." I nodded and murmured something about enlightenment principles and empiricism. He cut me off. "That's not the way the world really works anymore," he continued. "We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality -- judiciously, as you will -- we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do."
posted by Billy Rubin at 2:46 PM on February 14, 2017 [13 favorites]


Carl Bildt, former PM of Sweden, tweeted this today:

Sudden test of readiness of military forces along Russia's Nordic/Baltic borders. Readiness for what?


Putin invading the Baltics or Finland before the window of opportunity opened by the Asshole in Chief and his cadre of compromised idiots is a far more likely scenario than I'm comfortable with.
posted by tobascodagama at 2:48 PM on February 14, 2017 [8 favorites]


Glenn McCoy is a real piece of shit cartoonist and has done many similarly hateful cartoons.

Well, now I know where one of my coworkers gets the comics that he posts on Facebook.
posted by ThreeCatsBob at 2:49 PM on February 14, 2017 [4 favorites]


Upthread someone mentioned the possibility of Trump pulling a Palin. I could easily see this happening.

There's a lot of anecdotes that this is not going the way he wanted. Obama, Bush, and Clinton all clearly relished the White House experience, living and working there, hosting heads of state, etc. But Trump seems lost there. The current wife has escaped him by staying in NYC. None of his other family members stay in the house, leaving him to watching TV in his bathrobe. He is about to return to FL for a third time, acting like a cubicle denizen who can't wait to get out of town to their lake cabin. It's not part of his comfort zone and he's clearly a man who functions poorly outside his bubble.

As the losses and controversies pile up, as the job gets harder and harder, he no doubt will face a natural disaster or two that he can't ignore, or a foreign crisis with no easy fix, the level of frustration for this man-child is going to grow to a boil. Add to that a Congress that has its own agenda, a judiciary that defies him, and a staff that will be always changing until he doesn't know who to trust. He's already staggered by the depth of the job and again, this is a man who just does not function well out of his comfort zone. His supporters are going to be asking for some of those promises to be meant: the jobs, the infrastructure, the ban on Muslim he can't bring about, and that goddamn wall. Shit just doesn't happen with swiping your pen across an executive order and that's mighty frustrating to someone with the patience and impulse control of a toddler. World leaders are already talking about him and not in the flattering way he prefers. His first trips overseas are going to see protests that will make the ones Bush saw seem small and quaint. It's going to get uglier every day.

If this Flynn crisis, or the next one, or even the one after that doesn't bring him down, the sheer dashing of his expectations and the blows to his ego just might do it.

I may need to buy more popcorn.
posted by Ber at 2:49 PM on February 14, 2017 [96 favorites]


tobascodagama: Putin invading the Baltics or Finland before the window of opportunity opened by the Asshole in Chief and his cadre of compromised idiots is a far more likely scenario than I'm comfortable with.

So, Okkupert season 2 is a go, then.
posted by emelenjr at 2:51 PM on February 14, 2017 [7 favorites]


Putin invading the Baltics or Finland before the window of opportunity opened by the Asshole in Chief and his cadre of compromised idiots is a far more likely scenario than I'm comfortable with.

I would have thought Putin's methods would be funding and equipping more right-wing extremist groups within the bordering countries, similar to the Ukraine invasion, as opposed to overt invasion. The plausible deniability gives both Russia and NATO cover to not engage in conflict, while giving Putin propaganda victories about Russophiles defending their own communities within foreign nations.

Of course, Trump's willingness to back down in the face of President Xi's hardline stance gives Putin the opportunity to push hard on US naval assets in the Black Sea...Trump hasn't exactly shown an understanding of foreign relations nor a spine of steel.
posted by Existential Dread at 2:55 PM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


I may need to buy more popcorn.

Our SCROTUS reminds me of that South Park episode "Dances with Smurfs". Cartman (Donald) is just shitting on Wendy, the student council president, for not fixing everything despite not having actual power. The rubes, encouraged by Cartman, push Wendy until she resigns with glee and Cartman becomes student council president. Then he finally realizes he can't do shit and the school starts shitting on him. It's not precisely the same because it's an allegory to Obama and Glenn Beck but I see so much of Trumps campaign and subsequent frustration in it.
posted by Talez at 2:57 PM on February 14, 2017 [4 favorites]


I would pay money to see Lady Gaga portray Kellyanne on SNL.
posted by Midnight Skulker at 2:58 PM on February 14, 2017 [9 favorites]


I could swear I read somewhere -- was it reporting from the "dossier" maybe? -- a story about Russia supposedly scaling back their support activities on Trump's behalf during the campaign after his public fight with Khizr Kahn. Because they thought it showed that he was unstable.

At the time I thought that sounded plausible because what that fight did to his poll numbers had to make them doubt that he could win... But maybe they were actually more worried about this worse (from their point of view) scenario, where he gets into office and then gives the whole game away because he's just unable to control himself?

Anyway the Podesta e-mail leaks came after that, so I guess they decided to back him after all, but really I don't think they did themselves any favors. If he goes down it's much more disastrous for them than if he had never been elected. They really screwed themselves by choosing such a stupid, unreliable candidate to back... We're wise to their tricks now.

(I hope! France and Germany, are you paying attention?! Don't vote for the Putin puppets!)
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:58 PM on February 14, 2017 [4 favorites]


Rand Paul on Flynn: 'Makes no sense' to investigate fellow Republicans

See, Republicans can't commit crimes while Republicans are in office. That's in the Constitution!
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:59 PM on February 14, 2017 [67 favorites]


Cringe, cringe, cringe.
posted by pangolin party at 3:01 PM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


Rosie Gray has got a good story in The Atlantic on the Breitbart wing gunning for Priebus, Obama "sleeper cells," etc...: The Nationalist Right Is Coming for Reince Priebus
posted by zachlipton at 3:02 PM on February 14, 2017 [3 favorites]


I would have thought Putin's methods would be funding and equipping more right-wing extremist groups within the bordering countries, similar to the Ukraine invasion, as opposed to overt invasion.

Well, except that the "right-wing extremist groups" in the Ukraine invasion had quite a few Russian soldiers among them, from the reports I saw at the time. So the troops training right now might be participating even if Putin doesn't declare anything openly...
posted by tobascodagama at 3:03 PM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]




His first trips overseas are going to see protests that will make the ones Bush saw seem small and quaint. It's going to get uglier every day.

Overseas? He hasn't been out of the Eastern Time Zone since Jan 20. For the equivalent of last week in 2009, Obama went to Indiana, Florida and Illinois. But yes, the dog has caught the car, the lure of Mar-a-Lago has proved compelling, and the elected bits of government appear dysfunctional.
posted by holgate at 3:04 PM on February 14, 2017 [4 favorites]


and a staff that will be always changing until he doesn't know who to trust.

**IF** the comments/rumors about Trump having mar-a-lago "wired" or the "I have dirt" (both the wired/I have dirt have been made in Trump threads on The Blue) on people who stayed at the hotel are true - how did he do it?

Things like the IP based phones seen sitting on the desks in photographs?

How are you gonna know if the mic is hot on the IP phone? You have to trust staffers SOMEWHERE in the chain of command. Trump doesn't have trust like that - ESPECIALLY if he's had wiretapping done of IP based phones by his own staff in his own operations because he knows what can be done.
posted by rough ashlar at 3:04 PM on February 14, 2017


We'll never even get started with doing the things we need to do, like repealing Obamacare, if we're spending our whole time having Republicans investigate Republicans.
Straight from the horse's mouth: the White House has total impunity as long as Republicans control Congress.
posted by J.K. Seazer at 3:04 PM on February 14, 2017 [60 favorites]


Oh, also, regarding pushing out obvious anagram Reince Priebus.

Priebus is RNC company man and the only person with government experience in the Trumpalot star chamber at the moment. Kick him out, and his advisors dwindle down to a pair of nazis (Bannon and Miller), his son-in-law, and maybe his daughter (though that picture of her at the desk seemed to be more like a patronizing thing than a mark of respect so I question how much direct influence she has over him).

Kicking out the one guy who sort of knows how the place works is par for the course for Trump, but the idea that removing the one guy who recognizes that government agencies can't work without employees will somehow "fix" the leak problem is one of the most idiotic things I can think of. Which means, of course, it will happen.

I am reminded of how The Clash famously fired Mick Jones only to later remember that he was the one who wrote and arranged most of the music. Their next album was Cut the Crap, which wasn't entirely unlike going from a great head of state to a nightmare person head of state in musical form.
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:08 PM on February 14, 2017 [22 favorites]


Russia invading Finland has traditionally gone very poorly for the Russians. SISU!!!!!!
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 3:10 PM on February 14, 2017 [12 favorites]


Fan Fiction in Which Order is Restored to the Universe - After taking over the House following the 2018 elections, Democrats swiftly impeach Trump and Pence. President Pelosi appoints Hillary Clinton as her Vice President and resigns immediately. Hillary appoints Tim Kaine to be VP. Governor Jerry Brown then appoints Pelosi to fill her own empty seat. House Democrats reelect her to be Speaker. Roll credits.
posted by carmicha at 3:10 PM on February 14, 2017 [59 favorites]




If the ties to Russia are deep and provable, and the Republican congress still refuses to investigate, let alone impeach, then I would expect a military coup and the nation being run by a general until such time as they quell the riots and organize elections.
posted by rocket88 at 3:15 PM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


MSNBC is reporting that Trump didn't tell Pence. The MEDIA did.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:16 PM on February 14, 2017 [12 favorites]


Someone tell Trump he has only six days to beat William Henry Harrison's record
posted by theodolite at 3:18 PM on February 14, 2017 [38 favorites]


MSNBC is reporting that Trump didn't tell Pence. The MEDIA did.

Ha! Yeah, right. It sounds like either Pence is breaking out the knives for Trump himself, or someone wants Trump to think he is.
posted by zombieflanders at 3:19 PM on February 14, 2017 [4 favorites]


The way they seem to be characterizing the story now is that Trump decided there was nothing wrong with the DOJ thinking Flynn was compromised. He didn't say anything to Pence. WaPo reported last week about the transcripts, and that's where Pence saw it. He confronted Flynn, who "couldn't remember."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:21 PM on February 14, 2017


Exclusive: U.S. arrests Mexican immigrant in Seattle covered by Obama program: U.S. authorities have arrested an immigrant from Mexico who was brought to the United States illegally as a child and later given a work permit during the Obama administration in what could be the first detention of its kind under President Donald Trump…. Daniel Ramirez Medina, a 23-year-old with no criminal record, was taken into custody last week at his father's home in Seattle by U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement officers.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:27 PM on February 14, 2017 [29 favorites]


Does Pence have a little figurine of the three monkeys on his desk? I'd like to see some focused reporting on just how much distance he's keeping.
posted by holgate at 3:31 PM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


Really making America great again there, you spiteful petty fucks.
posted by Artw at 3:31 PM on February 14, 2017 [23 favorites]


I think he's going to pivot soon.
posted by Rust Moranis at 3:33 PM on February 14, 2017 [22 favorites]


Wow, the rest of that quotation from Rand Paul is just . . .wow. There's so much to unpack there, it's mindboggling, that paragraph will be the basis of a master's thesis written by some future Poli-sci grad student (with a minor in semiotics):
"I just don't think it's useful to be doing investigation after investigation, particularly of your own party."
(Uh huh, except there have been zero investigations so WTF are you talking about? Secondly, the transparency with which he admits that its ok to investigate Democrats is amazing.)
"We'll never even get started with doing the things we need to do, like repealing Obamacare, if we're spending our whole time having Republicans investigate Republicans."
(So this is from the front page of the playbook: you always need to bring your main talking point back into the conversation. Except it feels more desperate than usual, he sounds like a robot stuck on one setting. Even the Obamacare card feels flimsy against the impending shitstorm that is brewing around foreign intervention at the highest levels of the Executive branch.)

You're going to need a bigger boat, Mr. Paul.
posted by jeremias at 3:34 PM on February 14, 2017 [33 favorites]


From the article roomthreeseventeen linked:
According to the lawsuit, Ramirez was asleep at his father's home last Friday morning when ICE agents arrived and arrested the father. When they entered, they asked Ramirez if he was in the country legally, and Ramirez said he had a work permit, the lawsuit stated.

ICE agents took Ramirez to a processing center in Seattle and he again disclosed his DACA work permit, the lawsuit stated.

"It doesn't matter, because you weren't born in this country," one of the agents said, according to the lawsuit.
posted by biogeo at 3:34 PM on February 14, 2017 [21 favorites]


A friend just forwarded the following link, which is a handy daily summary of the fuckery and dysfunction we've been discussing w/r/t the Trump Trainwreck:

https://whatthefuckjusthappenedtoday.com

[Spolier Alert] Day 26: Clusterfuck

I did a quick search and didn't see the link in the posts above this one.
posted by mosk at 3:34 PM on February 14, 2017 [5 favorites]


Priebus is RNC company man and the only person with government experience in the Trumpalot star chamber at the moment.

Rnc Prbs's only government experience is as a clerk for a Wisconsin legislative committee between college and law school. All of his time at the RNC was when Obama was president. Michael Jordan has spent more time at the White House than Prbs.
posted by Etrigan at 3:35 PM on February 14, 2017 [5 favorites]


Daniel Ramirez Medina was brought to the US at age 7 and has a 3-year-old son. The bastards.
posted by zachlipton at 3:35 PM on February 14, 2017 [40 favorites]


"We need to repeal Obamacare so badly, guys! People are getting health care! Nevermind that this whole shebang is coming apart at the seams and is basically on fire, we need to stop HEALTHCARE."
posted by the uncomplicated soups of my childhood at 3:40 PM on February 14, 2017 [15 favorites]


ICE are a moral void that makes Republicans look human.
posted by Artw at 3:41 PM on February 14, 2017 [21 favorites]


How are you supposed to read the tea party leaves that @POTUS, @whitehouse and @realdonaldtrump have just stopped following @kellyannepolls?

(beyond some people have WAY to much time to note this 40 mins ago)
posted by rough ashlar at 3:42 PM on February 14, 2017 [15 favorites]


I put that picture of Ivanka behind the Oval Office desk in the same category I put the selfie with Rick the Football Carrier.... total diversionary non-issue.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 3:45 PM on February 14, 2017 [3 favorites]


Do we know that those accounts were every following her?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:46 PM on February 14, 2017 [3 favorites]


How are you supposed to read the tea party leaves that @POTUS, @whitehouse and @realdonaldtrump have just stopped following @kellyannepolls?

I've been seeing this floating around and I'm not 100% sure any of these accounts ever did follow her?
posted by Andrhia at 3:47 PM on February 14, 2017


How are you supposed to read the tea party leaves that @POTUS, @whitehouse and @realdonaldtrump have just stopped following @kellyannepolls?

Basically this
posted by Existential Dread at 3:47 PM on February 14, 2017 [4 favorites]


She's not on this list of people he followed as of late November, anyway.
posted by Andrhia at 3:49 PM on February 14, 2017 [2 favorites]


♫ Kellyanne, Kellyanne
Says whatever the hell she can
Spins a web
Made of lies
All the facts, she denies
Look out!
Don't talk to Kellyanne ♫
posted by a car full of lions at 3:56 PM on February 14, 2017 [73 favorites]






I hadn't seen this interview between Rep. Shiff (House Intelligence Committee) and Wolf Blitzer from yesterday morning. It's amazing how matter of factly they talk about the possibility of Trump colluding with Russia during the campaign. The idea has quickly gone from being unspeakable in polite company to being part of the basic dialog going forward.
posted by diogenes at 4:08 PM on February 14, 2017 [6 favorites]


I suppose it's a testament to the state of things when I cheer on shadowy intelligence organizations using strategic leaking to force out civilian appointed council members....
posted by lattiboy at 4:08 PM on February 14, 2017 [9 favorites]


Trump wants this photo of his dodgy tan removed from the internet. Please do not share.

That's Bannon wearing Trump's face.
posted by Room 641-A at 4:10 PM on February 14, 2017 [23 favorites]


So now that the CIA/NSA et al. are openly gathering and deploying kompromat against the administration, you guys think they're gonna lay off on that shit next time it's a Democrat administration?

Do you think they're gonna lay off for a reason besides that administration having bent the knee?
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 4:12 PM on February 14, 2017 [7 favorites]


I don't think they did themselves any favors

What do you think the Russian end game is though? Because if it's diminishing America's standing and influence in the world, and creating enough distraction to get on with encroaching power in Europe and the Middle East, they are so far mightily successful.

Really your Republican Party is absolutely craven.
posted by glasseyes at 4:13 PM on February 14, 2017 [4 favorites]


> Gah! Does he put that shit on by himself?

Not according to this pic of unknown veracity (NSFW or L)
posted by mosk at 4:13 PM on February 14, 2017 [4 favorites]


Martin Rowson cartoon in the Guardian.
posted by glasseyes at 4:15 PM on February 14, 2017


So now that the CIA/NSA et al. are openly gathering and deploying kompromat against the administration, you guys think they're gonna lay off on that shit next time it's a Democrat administration?

Do you think they're gonna lay off for a reason besides that administration having bent the knee?


I think that right now any circumstance that involves there ever being another Democratic administration (/democratic election) is awesome.
posted by Rust Moranis at 4:16 PM on February 14, 2017 [18 favorites]


So now that the CIA/NSA et al. are openly gathering and deploying kompromat against the administration, you guys think they're gonna lay off on that shit next time it's a Democrat administration?

It's not an ideal situation, but on the bright side, maybe the next Democratic administration won't be colluding with a hostile foreign power, so the kompromat won't be as effective.
posted by diogenes at 4:16 PM on February 14, 2017 [48 favorites]


Thank you for providing the source material for a thousand nightmares, mosk.
posted by Lyme Drop at 4:17 PM on February 14, 2017 [7 favorites]


So now that the CIA/NSA et al. are openly gathering and deploying kompromat against the administration, you guys think they're gonna lay off on that shit next time it's a Democrat administration?

They have always gathered kompromat. The Trumpmergency has necessitated them deploying it.
posted by Celsius1414 at 4:18 PM on February 14, 2017 [20 favorites]


In the Blitzer interview, Shiff says something about how Flynn tried to encrypt his communications with Russia, but since he was talking to Russia, he obviously wan't trying to hide it from them. I thought that was a good line.
posted by diogenes at 4:18 PM on February 14, 2017 [9 favorites]


mosk, is that picture from the "making of that terrible statue of naked trump". please let it be. oh god.
posted by lineofsight at 4:19 PM on February 14, 2017 [2 favorites]


That's the thing, right? I mean, the intel community has always been scary as shit and they shouldn't have more power than they already do, but if they have information of actual illegal shit, would it not be worse for them to just sit on it?
posted by showbiz_liz at 4:20 PM on February 14, 2017 [7 favorites]


My current fanfic daydream: every time someone on the news says "independent investigation," Bill and Hillary do a jello shot.
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:21 PM on February 14, 2017 [37 favorites]


The optimistic take is that this isn't about the IC wanting to control the world, it's about their lack of faith in the process. If they trust that concerns will be properly investigated and addressed through a regular process, they don't need to leak. I actually think this explains some of the FBI shenanigans before the election as well -- if they genuinely believed that the regular process was corrupted or would be preempted, their only option was to leak (or threaten to leak). Whether you agree or disagree with any intelligence agency's particular ideas about who should be in power and how things should go, I think we can all agree that when there is a good process in place for investigating the concerns they raise, they are far less likely to try to go outside the usual channels and leak.
posted by prefpara at 4:21 PM on February 14, 2017 [5 favorites]


Jesus, OF COURSE Trump follows Piers Fucking Morgan on twitter.
posted by triggerfinger at 4:22 PM on February 14, 2017 [3 favorites]


Guys, the Moustache of Understanding is PISSED.

Tom Friedman: What Trump Is Doing Is Not O.K. (NY Times, open in incognito mode if you're out of free articles)
We need to rerun the tape. Ladies and gentlemen, we were attacked on Dec. 7, 1941, we were attacked on Sept. 11, 2001, and we were attacked on Nov. 8, 2016. That most recent attack didn’t involve a horrible loss of lives, but it was devastating in its own way. Our entire intelligence community concluded that Russia hacked our election by deliberately breaking into Democratic National Committee computers and then drip-by-drip funneling embarrassing emails through WikiLeaks to undermine Clinton’s campaign. And what have we done about it? Other than a wrist slap against Moscow, we’ve moved on.

That is not O.K.
He's not this time's Conkrite, but he's comparing the fucking election to 9-11. This is -- not usual.
posted by maudlin at 4:29 PM on February 14, 2017 [69 favorites]


How many Friedmans before Trump is out?
posted by notyou at 4:32 PM on February 14, 2017 [10 favorites]


Or are we counting in Flynns, these days?
posted by notyou at 4:32 PM on February 14, 2017 [4 favorites]


I'm flabbergasted by the amount of good faith being shown Trump in this entire Flynn debacle.

When did Trump know Flynn had had improper communications with the Russians?

Most likely? Trump knew a few hours before this happened, while he was giving Flynn the orders to do so while talking on his unsecured Android phone.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 4:35 PM on February 14, 2017 [38 favorites]


It could be the IC is waiting for Trump to pin himself down on a date (we still don't have the Administration fixing that themselves, do we?), and then out comes the Android transcript.
posted by notyou at 4:37 PM on February 14, 2017 [3 favorites]


So now that the CIA/NSA et al. are openly gathering and deploying kompromat against the administration, you guys think they're gonna lay off on that shit next time it's a Democrat administration?

Probably.

I don't think there's some secret super authoritarian regime hiding in the U.S. government waiting to be unleashed. I think power has already shifted well away from "the people" and that these institutions don't really benefit all that much from this kind of chaos. The GOP/Trump administration is a mess. A mess that has a terrifying amount of power but a mess none the less. And as shocking as all of this news is, it's also exposing how flawed our democracy really is. A more stable administration would/will continue to protect the status quo, which I imagine the intelligence communities would prefer.
posted by AtoBtoA at 4:37 PM on February 14, 2017 [4 favorites]


Not according to this pic of unknown veracity (NSFW or L)

*horrified high pitched shrieks*

*desperately fumbles through desk drawers for bottle of whisky*
posted by Hairy Lobster at 4:38 PM on February 14, 2017 [9 favorites]


The absolute best outcome of this Flynn thing is personal for me:

The other day I got into a spirited discussion about alternative facts with an off-duty cop in a bar. The full-sleeve tatoo, shaved-head kind of cop.

He made two claims:
1. Three cops had been shot in the line of duty in our small Midwestern city last year. Actual number: zero. His Google fu could find plenty of officer-involved shootings, tho. To make sure this is clear: he is a cop in this city, and he either straight lied or was mistaken about the number of his colleagues who were shot in 2016.
2. Trump's travel ban was just a retread of Obama's. Again, Google betrayed him. All the search results were about the differences.

Both times he blamed mainstream media for burying the truth.

But we ended our conversation in a fun way. I said, I bet this Flynn thing gets pretty bad. He said if it does, he'll buy me a drink next weekend.

See ya Friday, Officer Trumpish! (But only at the bar, I hope.)

But my takeaway: although he was nice enough to me - fellow fortysomething white guy - there is literally nothing I could have done or said to move him one millimeter from his positions. I let him do the googling so he couldn't blame me for gaming the search terms, etc. To zero avail.
posted by Caxton1476 at 4:41 PM on February 14, 2017 [59 favorites]


What do you think the Russian end game is though? Because if it's diminishing America's standing and influence in the world, and creating enough distraction to get on with encroaching power in Europe and the Middle East, they are so far mightily successful.

I think that was their original goal -- put a thumb on the scale as much as they could for what appeared to be a shitty, incompetent, no-way-this-guy-can-win candidate so that Hillary would come in as damaged as possible and they'd have a stronger hand to play with.

They didn't realize that 27% +/- a few pct. of American voters are virulently racist & misogynist (and/or just raving conservative morons), and another 15% are just always going to pull the (R) lever, and that happened to be just enough energy, in just the right places, to make the Trump win happen.

Now, maybe Putin does, in his heart of hearts, believe that he can control Trump and minimize his puppet's danger. But this is a higher-stakes game than pushing around Ukraine or Georgia. This is a seriously unhinged guy in charge of a massive military and nuclear arsenal, who wields so much power that he can break a lot of things without even realizing it.

I genuinely wonder if Putin would do the same thing, if he could get a do-over.
posted by tivalasvegas at 4:44 PM on February 14, 2017 [18 favorites]


Three cops had been shot in the line of duty in our small Midwestern city last year. Actual number: zero.

[...]

Both times he blamed mainstream media for burying the truth.


Ridiculous. If you run into him again, ask him their names.
posted by tivalasvegas at 4:46 PM on February 14, 2017 [9 favorites]


I went into that Friedman article assuming it would be full of false equivalencies, or completely bypass the big picture, but nope, he's pretty straightforward:

Every action, tweet and declaration by Trump throughout this campaign, his transition and his early presidency screams that he is compromised when it comes to the Russians.
posted by diogenes at 4:47 PM on February 14, 2017 [15 favorites]


So now that the CIA/NSA et al. are openly gathering and deploying kompromat against the administration, you guys think they're gonna lay off on that shit next time it's a Democrat [sic] administration?

I mean, why do we have intelligence agencies if they don't warn us when the people in power are conspiring with an increasingly hostile foreign power that directly interfered in our election? It only got to the point of increasingly desperate and specific leaks after the White House ignored private warnings over a period of weeks.
posted by zachlipton at 4:48 PM on February 14, 2017 [44 favorites]


It only got to the point of increasingly desperate and specific leaks after the White House ignored private warnings over a period of weeks.

These people aren't leakers, they're whistleblowers, and Trump (+ the whole Bannon/Breitbart and Republican narrative) threatened this morning to hunt them down and punish them.
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:52 PM on February 14, 2017 [21 favorites]


So now that the CIA/NSA et al. are openly gathering and deploying kompromat against the administration, you guys think they're gonna lay off on that shit next time it's a Democrat administration?

There are no good things about the Trump administration. But if there were a good thing about the Trump administration, it would be that finally people on the left, and even a few liberals, are acknowledging something that the right has always known: politics is not a game, and it's not about resolving disputes through debate. Instead, politics is about the organized exercise of force in order to win control of decision-making processes.

Asking "so now that the CIA/NSA are openly gathering and deploying kompromat... you guys think they're gonna lay off that shit next time it's a Democratic administration?" is roughly equivalent to a chess player saying "But if I take my opponent's queen, she might think it's okay to take my queen later!"

Now, one might wish that politics weren't a struggle between mortal enemies. But wishing doesn't make it so.

If you are concerned about the intelligence agencies getting involved in politics long-term, the proper response isn't to handwring about their current involvement or to argue that the Democrats should play like gentlemen or whatever. The proper response is to propose methods to smash the intelligence agencies... but only once they're no longer a useful instrument for achieving the end of Trump and Trumpism.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 4:54 PM on February 14, 2017 [85 favorites]


Historian Kevin M. Kruse lays out exactly why the DeVos carton is so awful and reminds us of some of the horror of the New Orleans desegregation crisis.
posted by zachlipton at 5:01 PM on February 14, 2017 [43 favorites]


Who Told Flynn to Call Russia?

--My view is informed by several years of knowing and following Flynn. After being fired as head of the Defense Intelligence Agency—where he was already behaving erratically—Flynn slid into ever-stranger behavior.

-- Recent reporting suggests he was lost in his West Wing office, too, unaware, for example, that the State Department and Congress play central roles in arms sales and clueless about how to call up the National Guard in an emergency.

posted by futz at 5:02 PM on February 14, 2017 [17 favorites]


Priebus is RNC company man and the only person with government experience in the Trumpalot star chamber at the moment.

Not really.
That is a lot of responsibility to put on the shoulders of an unflappable political survivor from Kenosha, Wis., who has never held a major government post before. He has instead accrued his power by courting wealthy donors on behalf of Republican candidates, tending to the gripes of the R.N.C.’s 168 committee members, closely monitoring his own Wikipedia page and mostly staying on the good side of the capricious Mr. Trump, his ambivalent patron.
posted by zakur at 5:06 PM on February 14, 2017 [10 favorites]


And that Rand Paul quote ("I just don’t think it’s useful to be doing investigation after investigation, particularly of your own party") is infuriating but, at least to me, it's a sign of how untenable the GOP's position has become. Paul goes on to say that they need to focus on pushing forward with repealing Obamacare, an already troubled project, which feels almost quaint at this point. I have no idea how all of this is playing out on conservative media, but it's been less than a month and the party is already losing its illusion of coherency. All of the delicately balanced contradictions seem to be collapsing in on themselves.
posted by AtoBtoA at 5:11 PM on February 14, 2017 [9 favorites]


The Republican Party position is perfectly clear and perfectly tenable. It is that party comes before country, always.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 5:16 PM on February 14, 2017 [36 favorites]


So now that the CIA/NSA et al. are openly gathering and deploying kompromat against the administration, you guys think they're gonna lay off on that shit next time it's a Democrat administration?

You may have missed it, but the FBI installed Trump in the White House. It's a little late for hand wringing about the intelligence agencies.
posted by JackFlash at 5:16 PM on February 14, 2017 [24 favorites]


And that Rand Paul quote ("I just don’t think it’s useful to be doing investigation after investigation, particularly of your own party")

Trump's gotten the rest of the party to abandon any and all dog whistles.
posted by klarck at 5:18 PM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


Incredible shade about Confide, the messaging app White House staffers are now using to avoid archiving laws in Confide, a favorite app of Trump’s White House, is ‘a triumph of marketing over substance’ (it's a closed source "secure" messaging app that's never had an independent security review and the company that makes it doesn't even have any crypto or security people on staff):
Then again, not all cryptographers were willing to criticize Confide’s boom in the nation’s capital.

“As an opponent of the Trump administration, I would not want to provide sourcing to a story that might keep them from continuing to use Confide,” Thomas Ptacek, a security researcher at Latacora, told CyberScoop.
...
The app’s most high-profile known user is disgraced Democratic politician Anthony Weiner, who allegedly used it to communicate with underage girls. One accuser took photos of the “disappearing” messages from Weiner and shared them with reporters, a trivial task that undermines the app’s security promise. Those photos of Weiner’s messages haven’t disappeared, and now prosecutors are reportedly weighing child pornography charges against the former New York congressman.
posted by zachlipton at 5:27 PM on February 14, 2017 [25 favorites]


Hm. I was thinking about pulling down Confide and taking a look at its internals. Now I know what I'm doing tonight.
posted by jferg at 5:29 PM on February 14, 2017 [16 favorites]


Trump's gotten the rest of the party to abandon any and all dog whistles.

Well Paul has just finished a reelection campaign and in five and a half years the electorate won't care about Paul basically saying out loud that congressional investigations are just partisan tools and they won't hold "their team" to account. He also won his primary with 85% of the vote and the general 57-43. He could do the proverbial shoot someone on 5th avenue and it wouldn't mean jack shit.
posted by Talez at 5:35 PM on February 14, 2017 [4 favorites]


The Intercept_: Oklahoma Lawmakers Want Men to Approve All Abortions
At first, Humphrey said that the original intention of the bill was to ensure that fathers are involved in supporting a child from conception. “I was wanting fathers to have to pay child support at the beginning,” he said, but that specific language was excised from the bill.

Ultimately, he said, his intent was to let men have a say. “I believe one of the breakdowns in our society is that we have excluded the man out of all of these types of decisions,” he said. “I understand that they feel like that is their body,” he said of women. “I feel like it is a separate — what I call them is, is you’re a ‘host.’ And you know when you enter into a relationship you’re going to be that host and so, you know, if you pre-know that then take all precautions and don’t get pregnant,” he explained. “So that’s where I’m at. I’m like, hey, your body is your body and be responsible with it. But after you’re irresponsible then don’t claim, well, I can just go and do this with another body, when you’re the host and you invited that in.”
posted by XMLicious at 5:37 PM on February 14, 2017 [5 favorites]


Trump just signed the rollback on disclosing foreign payments. All is now clear for the Russian sanctions to be dropped and we may never know who owns that 19.5% of Rosneft.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 5:44 PM on February 14, 2017 [31 favorites]


I wonder how many Trump voters are experiencing buyer's remorse already.

@Trump_Regrets is collecting some on Twitter. I don't know which I find more astounding - their honesty or their naivete.
posted by zakur at 5:46 PM on February 14, 2017 [7 favorites]


Iowa Police Officers/Firefighters: We Didn't Vote Republican To Get Stabbed In the Back.

Seriously? Never heard of Air Traffic Controllers? Never trust a politician unless you've got leverage.
posted by ridgerunner at 5:56 PM on February 14, 2017 [22 favorites]


How is the rollback of the royalty/fee transparency rule (as odious as that is) connected to the sale of a chunk of Rosneft to ... someone?
posted by notyou at 5:56 PM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


Well Paul has just finished a reelection campaign and in five and a half years the electorate won't care about Paul basically saying out loud that congressional investigations are just partisan tools and they won't hold "their team" to account.

Maybe so, but I think that statement has utility beyond Paul. If the Democrats find a spine and smarten up enough to run the 50 State Strategy in 2018, an open admission that the GOP believes in IOKYAR is a gift to the ad campaigns of everybody challenging an R incumbent. Might as well take advantage of Citizens United and let some appropriately-named SuperPAC run with it. "Americans Against Government Corruption" or something. Make the bastards choke on his words.
posted by tobascodagama at 5:59 PM on February 14, 2017 [9 favorites]


From the second article that I linked here

-- Still, Mr. Flynn presents additional complications beyond his conversations with the Russian ambassador. His aides say he is insecure about whether his unfettered access to Mr. Trump during the campaign is being scaled back and about a shadow council created by Stephen K. Bannon...

-- So it was a rude discovery that Mr. Trump could not simply order the Pentagon to send more weapons to Saudi Arabia — which is clamoring to have an Obama administration ban on the sale of cluster bombs and precision-guided weapons lifted — or to deliver bigger weapons packages to the United Arab Emirates.

-- At an all-hands meeting about two weeks into the new administration, Ms. McFarland told the group it needed to “make America great again,” numerous staff members who were there said.

-- Mr. Flynn turned to Ms. McFarland and, in what seemed to be a self-deprecating joke, said, “I wonder if we’ll be here a year from now?” [Article is dated Feb 12 2017]

What a bunch of fucking SNOWFLAKES. Jalliah brought this up in the last thread:

News: Trump’s plan was to “buy time,” but tonight Flynn was "looking around the room and asking, 'Where's my friend?’” WH official says.

WTF. Was he dragging a blankie behind him when he said this?
posted by futz at 6:04 PM on February 14, 2017 [13 favorites]


Tom Friedman: What Trump Is Doing Is Not O.K. (NY Times, open in incognito mode if you're out of free articles)

This article is typical Freidmanism but holy shit, Tom Friedman, Iraq War adovcate, ultra-capitalist advocate, hobnobber with CEOs the world over (who give him great stories for his idiotic thinkpieces and books), is comparing 11-8-2016 with 9-11-2001? I mean, he's basically the mouthpiece of establishment consensus, a one man PR firm for anyone who might show up at a G8 summit or a meeting of the Trilateral Commission, and he thinks Trump colluded with Russia?

Maybe we really will see Trump get impeached.
posted by dis_integration at 6:07 PM on February 14, 2017 [44 favorites]


He could do the proverbial shoot someone on 5th avenue and it wouldn't mean jack shit.

I think eventually though it will. Maybe I'm being overly hopeful or naive, but I really think there is an end to this style of politics that doesn't require the total destruction of the U.S. government and that we're witnessing the beginning of that end now. Which doesn't mean we should just sit back, let it play out and it'll take care of itself. On the contrary, we (the news/the left) need to keeping pushing. It's been less than a month and prior to the election all of the signs were pointing straight towards the problems the administration is facing now. Watching it all play out is shocking but it's not exactly unexpected. And rather than putting together an effective strategy to deal with this, they're letting everything compound. It's getting harder and harder for them to twist their positions into populist rhetoric. They're being pushed into increasingly bolder contradictory positions.

The idea that the Republican Party/their supporters are all completely unhinged yet totally in control, that there are no limits to their extremity and power feels incredibly defeatist to me.
posted by AtoBtoA at 6:12 PM on February 14, 2017 [7 favorites]




CNN: First on CNN: Details of Rand Paul, Mark Sanford Obamacare replacement bill

Basically boils down to insurance companies can sell you anything they want. You can set aside to $5000 a year in a tax free HSA. And then there is this little tidbit:
The legislation also proposes restricting the use of taxpayer funds for abortion by banning people from using HSA funds for elective abortions.
In other words you can't use your own money from your savings on an abortion. Libertarianism, how does that work?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:14 PM on February 14, 2017 [95 favorites]


If Pence is impeached or resigns Trump does not get to automatically appoint his replacement. Trump would have to nominate someone who must be approved by a majority vote in both houses of Congress as specified in the 25th Amendment.
posted by humanfont at 6:14 PM on February 14, 2017 [3 favorites]


How is the rollback of the royalty/fee transparency rule (as odious as that is) connected to the sale of a chunk of Rosneft to ... someone?

Right now that ownership is hidden via shell companies. If there are Americans involved, they would have been bound by the disclosure rules. It's certainly possibly that it's all foreign investors, but, there have been rumors for sometime that there were US beneficiaries.

It seems oddly coincidental that at the same time that Exxon/Tillerman are trying to make the deal happen, Congress and Trump should make one of their first priorities killing legislation that would shine a light on any influence peddling.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 6:14 PM on February 14, 2017 [19 favorites]


Gah! Does he put that shit on by himself?

Yes he does, or at least as recently as last year did. I haven't shot him but know two photographers who have. Between being a germaphobe and not liking anyone touching him, and a control freak who thinks he can do anything better, he doesn't like/want/allow MUAs to do it. And it makes color toning/correcting portraits of him a nightmare. Oh, and the white eyes? Not just spots missed by the orange, but actually intentional and added because he thinks it makes his eyes pop and makes him look more powerful.
posted by chris24 at 6:18 PM on February 14, 2017 [66 favorites]


NYT-the-leaks-can't-stop-won't-stop-edition: Intercepted calls show members of the Trump campaign had repeated contact with Russian intelligence before the election, officials said
Phone records and intercepted calls show that members of Donald J. Trump’s 2016 presidential campaign and other Trump associates had repeated contacts with senior Russian intelligence officials in the year before the election, according to four current and former American officials.

American law enforcement and intelligence agencies intercepted the communications around the same time that they were discovering evidence that Russia was trying to disrupt the presidential election by hacking into the Democratic National Committee, three of the officials said. The intelligence agencies then sought to learn whether the Trump campaign was colluding with the Russians on the hacking or other efforts to influence the election.

The officials interviewed in recent weeks said that, so far, they had seen no evidence of such cooperation.
posted by zachlipton at 6:18 PM on February 14, 2017 [73 favorites]


[Beat to it by zachlipton!]
posted by maudlin at 6:19 PM on February 14, 2017 [3 favorites]


Trump would have to nominate someone who must be approved by a majority vote in both houses of Congress as specified in the 25th Amendment.

Yes, the new godawful VP would need to be approved by the same people who approved Betsy DeVos + their even more wingnutty glassy-eyed true-believer counterparts in the House. Big hurdle there.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:20 PM on February 14, 2017 [12 favorites]


Smoking gun time? At the very least, difficult to insist on "moving on."
posted by waitingtoderail at 6:21 PM on February 14, 2017


From that NYT piece:
Mr. Manafort added, “It’s not like these people wear badges that say, ‘I’m a Russian intelligence officer.’”
Oh, bless. (There's not much in this new piece that we don't already know or could surmise, other than it suggests the spooks may be going with the drip-drip-drip approach themselves and seeing how far the ripples from each drip spread.)
posted by holgate at 6:23 PM on February 14, 2017 [6 favorites]


> difficult to insist on "moving on."

Counterpoint: IOKIYAR.

Boom, roasted.
posted by tonycpsu at 6:24 PM on February 14, 2017 [5 favorites]


“As an opponent of the Trump administration, I would not want to provide sourcing to a story that might keep them from continuing to use Confide,” Thomas Ptacek, a security researcher at Latacora, told CyberScoop.

That's quite funny. Tom is the "good authority" I mentioned earlier. He knows his shit. And a lot of other people's shit.
posted by scalefree at 6:28 PM on February 14, 2017 [22 favorites]


The idea that the Republican Party/their supporters are all completely unhinged yet totally in control, that there are no limits to their extremity and power feels incredibly defeatist to me.

I think Republicans have a set of unique conditions right now where there's perfect wedge issues (abortion, class warfare, race, welfare) to cause hyperpartisanism, along with perfect population distribution among the Senate layout, and the House layouts which require a ridiculous swing. It's going to be a massive uphill battle over the next four years to gain control of either chamber.

Assuming Americans Against Corruption PAC gets off the ground? Paul rocks up to his stump speech in 2022 and says, "who are you going to vote for? the babykillers/white people haters/people who give your money to poor people or the guy who only wastes congressional time on investigating those people?" and he wins Kentucky if only because wingnuts there dramatically outnumber liberals.

I don't think we're going to see a political reformation any time soon. Conservative Evangelicals have been shown to hold their noses and put up with anything to keep hold of those levers of power. Moral qualms? Corruption? Looting the US treasury? Outright incompetence? Not a problem so long as they can ban abortion, put prayer back in schools, and appoint SCOTUS justices to make it stick.

Someone please show me I've got it wrong because from my perspective this is a giant clusterfuck that the Republicans are using to play the rural rubes for chumps and the rural rubes will happily go with it so long as they get to punch down as well.
posted by Talez at 6:29 PM on February 14, 2017 [10 favorites]






Gosh, it's been so long since we've fed soldiers into a meat grinder. And look, my kids are approaching draftable age! Surely I'll be a proud parent as I send my child off to defend "freedom" or something.

Have your family physician begin a history of treatment for bone spurs. It worked for Mr. trump after he ran out of school deferments.
posted by notreally at 6:34 PM on February 14, 2017 [5 favorites]


Twitter is the new Kremlinology. Kellyanne Conway may be gone. Trump unfollowed her & she changed her profile pic to take him out. On Twitter. Because we're in the wrong timeline. Help!

Added: & now they're back. I picked the wrong week to give up heroin.
posted by scalefree at 6:38 PM on February 14, 2017 [11 favorites]


The original phone taps - were they targeting the ambassador or Flynn? Were they a one off or is this an ongoing practice?

Embassy phones are in foreign lands, and the NSA is authorized (in practice, ordered) to monitor them.

Anyone who's attempted to use a cell phone, find a pay phone, or tune a radio within 200 feet of the Russian Embassy knows that every piece of communication into and out of that building is tapped, jammed, or both.

The Russian Ambassador certainly knows this. How Flynn overlooked it is beyond comprehension.
posted by toxic at 6:38 PM on February 14, 2017 [4 favorites]


TheAtlantic: On Not Saying His Name
Given the influence Trump’s name wields, snubbing it is an attempt to withhold some of that power while staking out higher moral ground, said Jenny Lederer, an assistant professor of linguistics at San Francisco State University. “In his case, especially, people feel like not repeating his name is [a way of] not speaking to the brand and the value system that goes along with his political ideology.” Lederer, whose research focuses on the way people talk about controversial political issues, told me that a refusal to name on this scale is only possible because “Trump” is already so omnipresent that discussion of him doesn’t require any reference.
posted by ZeusHumms at 6:38 PM on February 14, 2017 [5 favorites]


If there are Americans involved, they would have been bound by the disclosure rules.

Here's the announcement of the regulation last summer. It's aimed at payments made to governments for licensing, etc:
The rules define “not de minimis” as any payment, whether a single payment or a series of related payments, which equals or exceeds $100,000 during the same fiscal year. Payments that must be disclosed are: taxes; royalties; fees (including license fees); production entitlements; bonuses; dividends; payments for infrastructure improvements; and, if required by law or contract, community and social responsibility payments. The disclosure must be made at the project level, similar to the approach adopted in the European Union and Canada.
It's not clear to my non-lawyer's eyes that taking part in a privatisation scheme falls into that paragraph.
posted by notyou at 6:40 PM on February 14, 2017


He's not this time's Conkrite, but he's comparing the fucking election to 9-11.

Hell, I'm happy to hear anyone say it, let alone Tom Friedman. After the election, tens of millions of us were struck by terror and despair. Our image of our country was shattered in one night. We had no idea what lay in our future. We still have no idea. November 8, 2016 was a wound to this country, one that will take decades to heal (if it does, God willing). Hearing someone else say it is a respite from the gaslighting. It tells me I'm not alone.
posted by J.K. Seazer at 6:41 PM on February 14, 2017 [87 favorites]


I'm generally not a sign-waver at protests, but I think I'm gonna need a "SARAH KENDZIOR WAS RIGHT" sign for the next one. The other side will be "SALLY YATES WAS RIGHT".

Twitter is the new Kremlinology.

As noted upthread, it's not clear that @POTUS or any of the other accounts mentioned in the Twitter Kremlinology ever followed Kellyanne to begin with. She may indeed be on the way out, but this doesn't seem to provide any real evidence of that.
posted by tobascodagama at 6:41 PM on February 14, 2017 [8 favorites]


well, the landscape of the White House personnel is going to be a lot different by the end of the week. That's my prediction. What a clusterfuck.
posted by bluesky43 at 6:50 PM on February 14, 2017 [2 favorites]


Someone please show me I've got it wrong

I'm not saying you're wrong. You're correct on wedge issues and hyper-partisan stuff. But, consider how Trump may be viewed in 5 years. My personal viewpoint is that Trump will be considered Benedict Arnold and Imelda Marcos and your crazed & addled Grandpa all in one.

There will be him selling out to the Russians, completely fucking up whatever domestic crisis happens on his watch. There will be concrete effects many average people will feel: loss of their health insurance, their schools noticeably worsening, children getting sick from increased pollution, their Social Security check being smaller.

Americans (mostly the white ones since they're the ones responsible for most Republican / Trump votes), love to vote to save the babies or reduce their taxes or because God is a Republican. But when they personally feel the pain, then pro-life vs. pro-choice doesn't seem to matter much any more. Seeing that now in Kansas where the hyper-moral governor is deeply unpopular, even with Religious Right folks, because he made their schools and roads much worse. Or Bush in 2006 when it was obvious he couldn't do anything right.

If Trump's reputation goes as low as I think it will, and his scandals are worse than Watergate, then Rand's quote will probably haunt him several times a day when used in attack ads. I could even see those words showing up in the primary.
posted by honestcoyote at 6:50 PM on February 14, 2017 [13 favorites]


well, the landscape of the White House personnel is going to be a lot different by the end of the week. That's my prediction. What a clusterfuck.

yeah, it will be a completely different five people
posted by murphy slaw at 6:51 PM on February 14, 2017 [16 favorites]


okay, this tweet wins the day
It's like Trump is attempting a speedrun of the Nixon presidency.
- @Chrontendo
posted by murphy slaw at 6:56 PM on February 14, 2017 [109 favorites]


Americans (mostly the white ones since they're the ones responsible for most Republican / Trump votes), love to vote to save the babies or reduce their taxes or because God is a Republican. But when they personally feel the pain, then pro-life vs. pro-choice doesn't seem to matter much any more. Seeing that now in Kansas where the hyper-moral governor is deeply unpopular, even with Religious Right folks, because he made their schools and roads much worse.

But this is the kind of thing that I'm talking about. Governors aren't dictators. The Kansas legislature, as much as they will curse his name in public, were complicit in all of his crap. In 2016 they went from a supermajority to, well, a slightly smaller supermajority.

Not enough of the electorate just will not punish it because they think what's happening is right.
posted by Talez at 6:59 PM on February 14, 2017 [6 favorites]


Seriously, the Kansas electorate gave the Republican party the equivalent of a scolding you might give to a small child. "We're not mad. We're just disappointed in you but we still love you".
posted by Talez at 7:01 PM on February 14, 2017 [3 favorites]


He's losing Iowa.

Forty-two percent of Iowans approve of the job the newly inaugurated Republican is doing as president, while 49 percent disapprove, according to the latest Des Moines Register/Mediacom Iowa Poll.

posted by Rust Moranis at 7:01 PM on February 14, 2017 [9 favorites]


on one hand, i want to see how trump reacts when he's cornered like a wounded animal

on the other hand, i don't want to see how trump reacts when he's cornered like a wounded animal
posted by murphy slaw at 7:03 PM on February 14, 2017 [30 favorites]


Have your family physician begin a history of treatment for bone spurs. It worked for Mr. trump after he ran out of school deferments

Yes, as I mentioned in the prior thread, this advice is contained in Wilbert Everett Butts DeBos' famous essay "The Soles of Rich White Folks."
posted by spitbull at 7:03 PM on February 14, 2017 [9 favorites]


on one hand, i want to see how trump reacts when he's cornered like a wounded animal

on the other hand, i don't want to see how trump reacts when he's cornered like a wounded animal


I mean if he reacts like the right animal he might just empty his musk glands and play dead.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:04 PM on February 14, 2017 [19 favorites]




Seeing that now in Kansas where the hyper-moral governor is deeply unpopular, even with Religious Right folks, because he made their schools and roads much worse.

You know they reelected him anyway, right?
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:07 PM on February 14, 2017 [7 favorites]


He's losing Iowa.
I mean, that's nice and everything, but I still can't wrap my head around what the fuck those people were thinking in November.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 7:08 PM on February 14, 2017 [23 favorites]


I mean, that's nice and everything, but I still can't wrap my head around what the fuck those people were thinking in November.

They were thinking all kinds of dumb shit when they loosed the monster upon the world. It's still a good thing that they don't like the monster now.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:12 PM on February 14, 2017 [5 favorites]


It's like Trump is attempting a speedrun of the Nixon presidency.

I have no idea at all why anyone would say that.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:13 PM on February 14, 2017 [3 favorites]


I mean if he reacts like the right animal he might just empty his musk glands and play dead.

Of all the things I've heard rumored about trump - possible dementia, diagnosable mental conditions - the idea that he has musk glands, and would empty them when threatened like the world's shittiest Dr. Zoidberg, is among the most believable.
posted by mrgoat at 7:13 PM on February 14, 2017 [28 favorites]


He's losing Iowa.

I don't know...
Iowa Republicans overwhelmingly approve of Trump’s early actions, with 82 percent saying they approve of his job performance. But Democrats register nearly the opposite reaction, with 86 percent disapproving of his performance.
That sounds pretty common for everywhere in the US right now. I don't think he's particularly moving the needle in Iowa, other than he's lost all the local fools that were "but her emails". Iowa's a very slightly (61%) urban state.
“He’s doing everything he promised,” said Cody Marsh, 32, a power-line worker from rural Tabor in far southwest Iowa. “He hasn’t done any more or any less.”
This guy, also distressingly common around here. Man, I hate living in SW Iowa.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 7:13 PM on February 14, 2017 [3 favorites]


In any case, the Rosneft deal would be blocked by the Sanctions: if any Americans were involved, they weren't reporting it to anyone, with or without that rule.
posted by notyou at 7:14 PM on February 14, 2017 [3 favorites]


Seriously, the Kansas electorate gave the Republican party the equivalent of a scolding you might give to a small child. "We're not mad. We're just disappointed in you but we still love you".

I don't want to derail this too much into KS politics, but it was a bigger scolding than you think. The Brownback radical faction lost most of the seats up for re-election in the Republican primary. In the general, despite a landslide win for Trump, the state Democrats gained 15 seats. There's no love here at all. Brownback is routinely polling around 20 percent.

You know they reelected him anyway, right?

Yep, I know that. I live here. And it was a close election with evidence our corrupt SoS Kobach massaged the results. Things have gotten worse enough since then that people showed up at the boring non-Presidential state primary to vote out the legislators responsible.
posted by honestcoyote at 7:14 PM on February 14, 2017 [12 favorites]


I know not to be too hopeful but I would bet $$$ that this administration is out in 6 months or less. If the current pace of revelations continues they are toast. My only worry is that Nazi Pence remains standing. Guilt by association may kill him too. Prediction: the repubs will eat their own once the tide turns.
posted by futz at 7:16 PM on February 14, 2017 [2 favorites]


I'm still surprised by the weakness of Flynn's defense. Surely they could have mounted a full-on defense/attack, rather than witter on about Flynn having or losing Trump's confidence. I mean, here's how I would have done it:
Every incoming administration is in contact with other government leaders. It's unavoidable, unless you want the US government to start from zero in the middle of a crisis. And a crisis is what we had, due to the ill-judged and and chaotic measures taken in the last days of the Obama administration.

The complaint here is that Michael Flynn confirmed exactly what our President said during his campaign: that Mr Trump recognised that Obama's foreign policy wasn't working and that we needed to sit down with other nations and make a fresh start. I don't know whether Michael Flynn's quiet diplomacy helped prevent a further escalation in Russia-US tensions, but if he's responsible then we can all be very grateful.

If the President isn't happy with the way Flynn handled this sensitive information after the election that's his business. The real question is, why was Obama's administration spying on his successor, who did they share that information with, and how far back did it go. We live in a free country, not one where a President can order surveillance of his enemies for political ends. We already know that senior Democrats were secretly feeding information to Hillary's campaign, I think it's time for them to tell us where it came from and who they were working for.
Easy-peasy. But there not only hasn't been a real defense, there's also a surprising lack of Republicans taking advantage of it. What are they afraid of? Are they scared of the Tea Party, the Trump Administation, or a third party?
posted by Joe in Australia at 7:16 PM on February 14, 2017 [4 favorites]


Iowa Republicans overwhelmingly approve of Trump’s early actions, with 82 percent saying they approve of his job performance. But Democrats register nearly the opposite reaction, with 86 percent disapproving of his performance.
The most important fact about Iowa politics, which almost everyone misses, is that a plurality of voters here are registered no party. Iowa Republicans are truly off-the-charts extremists. The people who swing elections here are independents.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 7:16 PM on February 14, 2017 [11 favorites]




Trump Campaign Aides Had Repeated Contacts With Russian Intelligence

This is the slide into the end for this administration, it's happening much more quickly than we could have hoped for.

(on preview, like futz, I know, "surely this" and etc.--I lived through it all the first time, mostly on the blue then, too--but seriously: an extraordinarily divisive and controversial, recently-elected president has a team of people around him who are slowly but decisively being revealed to have been in consistent contact with Russian intelligence for at least the last year. There is just no spin out of that. The only part I'm curious about is how it all shakes out once Trump and his odious circle are out, namely just how far and wide the shit will splatter.)
posted by LooseFilter at 7:21 PM on February 14, 2017 [5 favorites]




Not sure how serious this is, but
Mexico ready to retaliate by hurting American corn farmers

Mexico is one of the top buyers of American corn in the world today. And Mexican senator Armando Rios Piter, who leads a congressional committee on foreign relations, says he will introduce a bill this week where Mexico will buy corn from Brazil and Argentina instead of the United States.
Getting into a trade war with your third biggest trade partner...not great, Bob.
posted by Existential Dread at 7:21 PM on February 14, 2017 [51 favorites]


I mean, that's nice and everything, but I still can't wrap my head around what the fuck those people were thinking in November.

Last week I was in the dentist office here in the Middle of Nowhere, Redstatia, and a couple of older gents were talking in the waiting area. The one was saying he wished he hadn't voted for Trump because he "just doesn't act very presidential" and that he "thought his brash and boorish behavior was just an act" to get media attention. The other guy said he voted for him because the thought of Hillary having a 400 EV mandate just filled him with dread, even though she was more qualified.

Both agreed that local republicans would be wise to distance themselves from this fire, and seemed disappointed that they haven't.

Among my friends here, the more tepid republicans have been quietly embarrassed. The vocal ones however have fully taken up the mantle and it's full "Fuck the Libtards!" mode.

I, on the other hand, have fully lost all respect I had for anyone who voted Trump. You could see that dumpster fire from orbit, morons. We're paying for it - now, you eat it.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 7:21 PM on February 14, 2017 [47 favorites]


Not sure how serious this is, but: Mexico ready to retaliate by hurting American corn farmers

Speaking of Iowa; they're gonna hate that.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:24 PM on February 14, 2017 [20 favorites]


The political assassination of Michael Flynn from Bloomberg View.

In the end, it was Trump's decision to cut Flynn loose. In doing this he caved in to his political and bureaucratic opposition. Nunes told me Monday night that this will not end well. "First it's Flynn, next it will be Kellyanne Conway, then it will be Steve Bannon, then it will be Reince Priebus," he said. Put another way, Flynn is only the appetizer. Trump is the entree.
posted by bluesky43 at 7:24 PM on February 14, 2017 [18 favorites]


In the end, it was Trump's decision to cut Flynn loose. In doing this he caved in to his political and bureaucratic opposition. Nunes told me Monday night that this will not end well. "First it's Flynn, next it will be Kellyanne Conway, then it will be Steve Bannon, then it will be Reince Priebus," he said. Put another way, Flynn is only the appetizer. Trump is the entree.

oh please oh please oh please
posted by emjaybee at 7:26 PM on February 14, 2017 [33 favorites]


Not sure how serious this is, but: Mexico ready to retaliate by hurting American corn farmers

Iowa's gonna hate that.


Corn prices are already down, there's an undercurrent of worrying about repeating the 80s Farm Crisis, this will get very bleak.
posted by jason_steakums at 7:27 PM on February 14, 2017 [12 favorites]


hey folks i'm gonna unplug my internet connection, buy a bunch of cokes and replay Legend of Zelda: A Link to The Past and hope that Trump isn't president anymore by the time I defeat Ganon.
posted by murphy slaw at 7:27 PM on February 14, 2017 [33 favorites]


Oh god you know who's third?

The Zombie Eyed Granny Starver himself.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:28 PM on February 14, 2017 [8 favorites]


It's like Trump is attempting a speedrun of the Nixon presidency.

I have this "Hook, Line, Sinker" lithograph by Robbie Conal. I am cautiously hopeful that we will get an updated version soon.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:28 PM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


The thing is killing me is the fact that all of this was utterly obvious from before the election. The Russian connection was like staring at the coastlines of Africa and South America and seeing how they fit. Any child could have looked at the facts and seen how fucking obvious it was. All we have now is confirmation of everything we inferred from the mountain of evidence we had during the campaign. I just want to vomit.
posted by gatorae at 7:28 PM on February 14, 2017 [114 favorites]


Oh and state Republicans will just try to sell tax cuts as a solution to tanking corn prices. That won't go well for them.
posted by jason_steakums at 7:28 PM on February 14, 2017 [5 favorites]


Oh god you know who's third?

The Zombie Eyed Granny Starver himself.


Hardcore Trumpites and Redcaps hate Ryan as much or more than they do liberals. They would blame him as part of the conspiracy and the GOP would tear itself to shreds.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:31 PM on February 14, 2017 [5 favorites]


Let's start the talking point now - no SCOTUS Justice nominated by a treasonous or unelected President should be confirmed. The next winner of the untainted popular vote should choose.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:31 PM on February 14, 2017 [89 favorites]


CNN is going with "constant" and "extensive" communications between top campaign people and Russian operatives throughout the campaign.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:31 PM on February 14, 2017 [24 favorites]


We inferred? Hell, it's like people forget that Clinton came right out and called him Putin's puppet during a presidential fucking debate.

Those who wanted to know, knew. Those who didn't want to know, well, that's why we're in this shithole right now.
posted by lydhre at 7:33 PM on February 14, 2017 [109 favorites]


Nice of the 4th estate to wake up, sure wish it had been sooner.
posted by emjaybee at 7:33 PM on February 14, 2017 [43 favorites]


Please god let this be the real end for Trump.

Also, frankly, if there's a big enough scandal, it will shatter the Republican party. Everyone has been making nice with Trump because he won and they wanted their garbage tax cuts - they didn't care that he was corrupt and racist and a liar and had open white supremacists as his advisors. If Trump goes down, the other Republicans won't, like, lose all their base, but their base will be split and its confidence shaken. An impeachment over something like this, that so obviously taints most other Republicans, would hugely weaken and discredit them.
posted by Frowner at 7:34 PM on February 14, 2017 [27 favorites]


I really hope that reporters are trying to get every Republican from Pence down to local dogcatcher on tape saying supportive things about Trump so that if (please, please please) 45 goes down it'll be attack ad gold for several election's worth of ads.
posted by rmd1023 at 7:35 PM on February 14, 2017 [7 favorites]


somehow I feel like I'm going to wake up tomorrow and the freaking four horsemen of the Apocalypse are going to be breaking down the front door of the white house.
posted by bluesky43 at 7:35 PM on February 14, 2017 [5 favorites]


I think of this less as accelerated Nixon than concentrated Nixon. Like if Nixon was a big pot of soup, Trump is that bouillon paste that comes in a little jar.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:36 PM on February 14, 2017 [37 favorites]


The Zombie Eyed Granny Starver himself.

You mean the guy who was standing grinning behind Moscow Don today at about the same time Sean Spicer was lying through his fucking teeth on TV about the treasonous White House? The stench of this needs to be ground into his carcass.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:36 PM on February 14, 2017 [15 favorites]


Speaking of Iowa; they're gonna hate that.

Most of Iowa's corn goes into animal feed and fuel ethanol anyway. Less than 1% of it is food-for-people corn. [cite]
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 7:36 PM on February 14, 2017 [5 favorites]


Another question of little import, but: why is the brogressive left (as exemplified by the Chapo dudes and their fans) so skeptical and dismissive of the Russia thing? Basically every response of theirs is "uh, not impressed, there's nothing new here, oh and Clinton was just as skuzzy" and I don't fucking get it.
posted by Existential Dread at 7:36 PM on February 14, 2017 [14 favorites]


Great comeback on /r/the_donald: "Susan Rice was just as bad as Flynn." (Not linking because it's racist/misogynist.)
posted by Coventry at 7:36 PM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


> Is it, though? This is Rick... He carries the "football" The nuclear football. Y'know, the one without which we can't launch a retaliatory strike, taking him out would take the Mutual out of Mutually Assured Destruction.

Well, maybe? Someone in the last thread similarly suggested 'maybe Russia is reevaluating first strike outcomes'. But, that's not really a good outcome for them either. Say taking out "Rick the Nuke Guy" does end our ability to launch at all, Russia still wouldn't want to fire on the US. Even a limited nuclear exchange would fuck up the world's atmosphere and cause a worldwide famine as crops failed for years. Russia isn't exactly food independent as is, much less in a world cooled by nuclear fallout.


I haven't checked Trump's twitter feed today but I think we're still part of NATO? And both the UK and France have nukes and are in a mutual-defense pact with us.
posted by sebastienbailard at 7:37 PM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


Just published from the former State Department coordinator for counterterrorism: "Who Told Flynn to Call Russia?"
posted by shothotbot at 7:37 PM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


Kellyanne Conway tomorrow.
posted by guiseroom at 7:38 PM on February 14, 2017 [3 favorites]


Oh god you know who's third?

The Zombie Eyed Granny Starver himself.


I've said it before, he'll find himself in a position to sign his pet Social Security/Medicare/Medicaid bills into law and realize nobody in Congress wants to send them his way.
posted by jason_steakums at 7:40 PM on February 14, 2017 [3 favorites]


Serious question... why was this hidden?!?! If all these people knew before the election, why wasn't anything shared? I remember right around the election a comment from some government person "if the public knew they would riot". Then why the fuck aren't you people doing something?!?! Go to the press THEN! WTF with this keeping it under wraps while they were spreading BS about Hillary Clinton that was exactly what they knew Trump was doing?
posted by CoffeeHikeNapWine at 7:42 PM on February 14, 2017 [33 favorites]


I'd like to read a biography of Flynn. His path to three-star general must have been pretty interesting, given how crazy/foolish he seems at the moment.
posted by Coventry at 7:42 PM on February 14, 2017 [4 favorites]


Everyone has been making nice with Trump because he won and they wanted their garbage tax cuts - they didn't care that he was corrupt and racist and a liar and had open white supremacists as his advisors. If Trump goes down, the other Republicans won't, like, lose all their base, but their base will be split and its confidence shaken.

If the collaborators in the Republican party think the PVL is going to go quietly if/when they turn on him, oh boy, have they ever got another thing coming. That guy does not take criticism or betrayal well.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 7:43 PM on February 14, 2017


Basically every response of theirs is "uh, not impressed, there's nothing new here, oh and Clinton was just as skuzzy" and I don't fucking get it.

These are the same people that when you ask for why Clinton was "just as bad" with specific policy examples will inevitably start with "the DNC rigged the primary" or some shit. Misogyny is the easiest and most likely answer.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:43 PM on February 14, 2017 [39 favorites]


somehow I feel like I'm going to wake up tomorrow and the freaking four horsemen of the Apocalypse are going to be breaking down the front door of the white house.

From the inside.
posted by srboisvert at 7:45 PM on February 14, 2017 [59 favorites]


Easy-peasy. But there not only hasn't been a real defense, there's also a surprising lack of Republicans taking advantage of it. What are they afraid of? Are they scared of the Tea Party, the Trump Administation, or a third party?

This gives me hope! Maybe the GOP isn't really trying to defend Trump after all... Maybe they DO recognize the threat he poses to our national security and are not going to stand in the way of his downfall... Maybe they are just trying to LOOK loyal to Trump so as not to piss off their base... Because yeah, on the one hand they could be doing some actual investigations, but on the other hand they could be doing a LOT better job spinning all this, and they're not. They're barely defending him at all.
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:45 PM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


I'm going to see a panel discussion with David Farenthold, Susanne Craig and Daniel Dale tomorrow night. That should be fairly interesting...
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 7:46 PM on February 14, 2017 [15 favorites]


Fareed Zakaria on CNN short but sweet on what the Trump White House has to do. Release his tax returns - I would love it if that is one of the consequences of this.
posted by bluesky43 at 7:47 PM on February 14, 2017 [2 favorites]


"Who Told Flynn to Call Russia?"

Is this updated from the article linked earlier...I can't tell.
posted by futz at 7:49 PM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


Another question of little import, but: why is the brogressive left (as exemplified by the Chapo dudes and their fans) so skeptical and dismissive of the Russia thing? Basically every response of theirs is "uh, not impressed, there's nothing new here, oh and Clinton was just as skuzzy" and I don't fucking get it.

You know, I actually have a new answer for this one that I think is correct: structural weakness in the US left has meant that there simply isn't any traction for "neither Washington nor Moscow". The obvious position to take is that the neo-Democratic party which has abandoned working people and the Trump fascist white nationalist Republicans and Putin's homophobic, corrupt security state are all repulsive and corrupt, and all should be exposed for what they are, and all should be demolished and replaced. That's the proper task of a revolutionary left, and the proper task of a revolutionary left is to fight off attacks on the commonality as they occur, meaning that Trump is our big problem right now. And our other proper task is to seize the moment, not moralize about sheeple. The moment is one where the Republican agenda could be smashed, the Democratic party could be renewed and various left social formations could gain real political power because people are moving now.

But because the left is weak and disorganized and has relatively little powerful contemporary theory (like, the big thinkers are center left at best - Piketty, etc) we're super reactive and super cultural/moralistic - like, it's more important to moralize to each other about how the sheeple didn't care when Obummer did whatever than it is to actually talk to the "sheeple" now that they're on the move. We don't have the people or the ideas for the times. Sweeping social change will have to come from others. But that's how it works a lot of the time anyway, for good or for ill.
posted by Frowner at 7:50 PM on February 14, 2017 [40 favorites]


Imagine how quickly Republicans would investigate Trump’s Russia ties if he said he thought 39.6% was the appropriate top marginal tax rate.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:55 PM on February 14, 2017 [4 favorites]


Imagine how quickly Republicans would investigate Trump’s Russia ties if he said he thought 39.6% was the appropriate top marginal tax rate.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:55 PM


The tweet you got that joke from.
posted by sideshow at 7:57 PM on February 14, 2017 [17 favorites]


Following on the replies to that tweet: Maybe we should point out to the Republicans that Russia has national healthcare. If we're going to go all Putinist over here, let's at least get some clinics out of it.
posted by Frowner at 8:02 PM on February 14, 2017 [12 favorites]



Another question of little import, but: why is the brogressive left (as exemplified by the Chapo dudes and their fans) so skeptical and dismissive of the Russia thing? Basically every response of theirs is "uh, not impressed, there's nothing new here, oh and Clinton was just as skuzzy" and I don't fucking get it.


They/we/I have preferred to keep the focus on how inept the Clinton campaign was as rhetorical leverage to push the dems left, because if we only focus on the Russia thing (and the neliberal Dem establishment would prefer to focus on the Russia thing) then they can put fingers in their ears and pretend that there's no problem with their existing policies and messaging. Far as I can (and I'm a pretty big fan) the Chapo guys are on board with the Russia thing being true but think that it is pernicious to focus on it in intra-left discussions (this at least is my view).
posted by The Horse You Rode In On at 8:03 PM on February 14, 2017 [4 favorites]


But because the left is weak and disorganized and has relatively little powerful contemporary theory (like, the big thinkers are center left at best - Piketty, etc) we're super reactive and super cultural/moralistic - like, it's more important to moralize to each other about how the sheeple didn't care when Obummer did whatever than it is to actually talk to the "sheeple" now that they're on the move. We don't have the people or the ideas for the times. Sweeping social change will have to come from others. But that's how it works a lot of the time anyway, for good or for ill.

This is just a thought but the left could try co-operating with progressives, liberals, and centrists instead of having a hissy fit and sitting out if the candidate isn't the worker's party messiah.

You want to win? Fight the primaries, lockstep in the general. Otherwise feel free to sit in your corner muttering how once it gets bad enough the sheeple will wake up and vote in a socialist paradise.
posted by Talez at 8:07 PM on February 14, 2017 [75 favorites]


The nationalist right is coming for Priebus from The Atlantic

“I think this is Pearl Harbor for the true Trump supporters, the Trump loyalists,” said Roger Stone, a former Trump campaign adviser and longtime Republican operative who still has a relationship with Trump. “I believe Reince Priebus moved on General Flynn and I think he intends to move on Steve Bannon and Stephen Miller next. He is not serving the president well. The people he hired are loyal to the Republican National Committee, not the President of the United States.”

Geesh, who's on who's side? It's upside down land.
posted by bluesky43 at 8:07 PM on February 14, 2017 [2 favorites]


Most of Iowa's corn goes into animal feed and fuel ethanol anyway. Less than 1% of it is food-for-people corn.

You've misread that citation. 1% of Iowa corn is sweet corn, but sweet corn is only a tiny amount of the corn eaten by people. Sweet corn is the fresh corn on the cob or canned corn you eat. But field corn is used in many food products such as breakfast cereals and, pertinent to this discussion, tortillas, enchiladas, tamales, masa harina.

Mexico is Iowa's top purchaser of exported corn, most of which is field corn. Iowans are quite nervous about Trump tariff talks. Yesterday Mexican senator Armando Rios Piter, who leads a congressional committee on foreign relations, says he will introduce a bill this week where Mexico will buy corn from Brazil and Argentina instead of the United States.
posted by JackFlash at 8:07 PM on February 14, 2017 [39 favorites]


On the drip-drip-drip (and the apparent contest between NYT and WaPo on sources): the NYT piece puts both Spicey and Pence on the spot, for different reasons. The press secretary has a statement on record that's no longer operative; the veep was either lying or ignorant, and if he was ignorant, then the question arises of why he was answering questions on the Sunday shows the weekend before the inauguration so definitively. Their move.
posted by holgate at 8:10 PM on February 14, 2017 [3 favorites]


I also don't buy the "chapo trap house is misogynist" thing, even if their use of masculinist language isn't quite ironic and even if I really wish that Matt Christman would stop using the c-word when he gets worked up.

I'm well aware that misogynist Bernie bros exist but CTH does not number among them.
posted by The Horse You Rode In On at 8:10 PM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


You want to win? Fight the primaries, lockstep in the general.

This is awfully close to RLTP. No fight was really possible after Obama, the head of the Democratic party, said Clinton was the only one fit to succeed him.
posted by Coventry at 8:10 PM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


i am getting really excited about current developments but on the other hand it's 2017 so maybe The New York Times and The Washington Post are just part of my bubble?
posted by murphy slaw at 8:12 PM on February 14, 2017 [3 favorites]


This is awfully close to RLTP. No fight was really possible after Obama, the head of the Democratic party, said Clinton was the only one fit to succeed him.

It was entirely possible. It was just difficult and ended up being too difficult. In a contest of two people one of them has to lose. I donated to Bernie, I supported him in MA. But once it was realistically impossible for him to win it was time to get behind the candidate.

But this isn't just about the primaries. This is about every candidate in every district. It's shitty but we have FTTP voting. Use the vote wisely and, if necessary, votez escroc, pas facho!
posted by Talez at 8:15 PM on February 14, 2017 [4 favorites]


They/we/I have preferred to keep the focus on how inept the Clinton campaign was as rhetorical leverage to push the dems left, because if we only focus on the Russia thing (and the neliberal Dem establishment would prefer to focus on the Russia thing) then they can put fingers in their ears and pretend that there's no problem with their existing policies and messaging. Far as I can (and I'm a pretty big fan) the Chapo guys are on board with the Russia thing being true but think that it is pernicious to focus on it in intra-left discussions (this at least is my view).

As much as I have trouble with the intra-party fighting, and as much as I worry about purity tests in places where we might have to run imperfect Dems, it seems like the solution is pretty simple and I wish the establishment Dems and Bernie wing would both figure it out: when you run new candidates you run them as reformers of the party (especially in areas Dems were just leaving seats uncontested - "the establishment Democrats abandoned us and then the Republicans coasted on easy wins without helping us and we're sick of it and here to take back our party"), and the establishment folks make a show of being pressured by that and moving left where they can, and then pretty much everybody's running on a version of the platform we just ran on anyways since it was a very progressive platform and heavily influenced by Bernie, it just didn't get anywhere near the notice it should have (see every "where was Hillary's jobs/infrastructure plan?" comment). It's a win-win, new blood comes in with new ideas and the establishment uses the political capital of that movement to move left where local politics allow it while still keeping them electable, and we end up with a back bench of progressives to realistically push out the Manchins of the world down the line.
posted by jason_steakums at 8:16 PM on February 14, 2017 [22 favorites]


No fight was really possible after Obama, the head of the Democratic party, said Clinton was the only one fit to succeed him.

And yet Bernie demonstrably moved the conversation and the platform dramatically to the left of where it would've been without his challenging Obama's statement and the assumed Clinton anointing.

Incrementalism works. It's worked for 200 years. But not if 10% of the people who agree with the policies sit home, and another 10% vote for Jill Stein to "send a message"
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:16 PM on February 14, 2017 [58 favorites]


You want to win? Fight the primaries, lockstep in the general. Otherwise feel free to sit in your corner muttering how once it gets bad enough the sheeple will wake up and vote in a socialist paradise.

I think that isn't exactly the issue - it's more that there isn't a very good understanding of liberals or a very good set of ideas about how to work with people.

I mean, if you really think the electoral process is irredeemably corrupt and social change will have to come directly from social movements, don't spend your time carping about the election, eh? Like, I know plenty of people who don't bother with any of that stuff, and whatever anyone thinks about their position, they're consistent.

I have not been overwhelmingly impressed by radical interventions into electoral politics around here - there's a lot of smuggery, secrecy and contempt for anyone who doesn't follow their particular line, which I think is just bananas considering the extremely.... uneven electoral track record of the left in the US. Like, the assumption is always that because we are far left, we're the smartest people in the room, the ones who really know how it is, and everyone else does whatever they do out of ignorance or hypocrisy.

And I think that this stems, as much as anything, from intellectual weakness in the left. We need to develop some better theories about liberalism and about how non-activists can reasonably be expected to participate in politics, and I think we need some better ideas about our end game(s). These are things that lefts in other places and other times have had, but because of the particular chain of events post-McCarthy, we don't have enough of that stuff now.
posted by Frowner at 8:17 PM on February 14, 2017 [22 favorites]


transcripts

Have we already forgotten how OK it is to leave the recorders off for phone calls?
posted by bendy at 8:24 PM on February 14, 2017 [2 favorites]


once it was realistically impossible for him to win it was time to get behind the candidate.

I mean, that's fine, and I did to the extent I morally could (and legally -- can't vote.) You're kind of preaching to the choir there. But it was the party's responsibility to come up with a platform which excited a winning coalition, and it's stupid to blame voters for not getting excited by what the party offered. Akin to a company getting angry that its marketing campaign has failed, instead of shifting direction.
posted by Coventry at 8:26 PM on February 14, 2017 [2 favorites]


I have more to say re purity tests, Hillary/Bernie, party unity, the left, etc but it would me perilously close to RLTP and also the thread is melting my phone.
posted by The Horse You Rode In On at 8:26 PM on February 14, 2017


Like, the assumption is always that because we are far left, we're the smartest people in the room, the ones who really know how it is, and everyone else does whatever they do out of ignorance or hypocrisy.

I recently listened to someone in our small city Indivisible group opine that to win rural voters we should sponsor a "line dance, or whatever" in a nearby rural town. Not bring ideas to them and prove the worth of those ideas, not maybe run electable if center-left candidates if that's what it takes, just pander to the rednecks like it's a barn party at Kix Brooks' house circa 1991 and they'll sure fall into line. I stopped myself from facepalming for fear I'd give myself a concussion.
posted by jason_steakums at 8:27 PM on February 14, 2017 [15 favorites]


even if their use of masculinist language isn't quite ironic and even if I really wish that Matt Christman would stop using the c-word when he gets worked up.

no hate for women, just casual contempt, then? that's all very well but this alleged quote is of even more interest to me:

“Yeah,” Biederman said. “The Democratic leadership has to be purged. Our mission statement, for the time being, is to paint these targets.”

I asked them if they blamed the Party exclusively. Didn’t it make sense to attribute some of the fault with the people who chose Trump despite his racism and sexism? They scoffed.

“Even if you do blame the electorate, where do you go from there?” Biederman asked. “Do we shame these people into liking us?”


for its blatant honesty: who cares what's true, if the truth isn't a useful tool?

I mean if I had the ability to just not care about how hateful and bigoted huge portions of the American electorate are, and could satisfy myself by working in mass media and political messaging to produce a cool sense of in-group solidarity to increase support for my side without regard to whether my message was accurate, only whether it, you know, resonated, I'd, well, I'd go work for the Democratic Party and be a strategist or a hack or a flack or whatever the job titles are. one of those people. If I didn't give a shit about who was genuinely to blame, only who can usefully be blamed so as to inflame the populace in the correct way. I am sure these dudes are fun people but so are a lot of elected Democrats. I can like them fine but respect is harder.
posted by queenofbithynia at 8:30 PM on February 14, 2017 [12 favorites]




The NYT piece revealing the FBI interview has been rewritten from the ground up as a tick-tock of Flynn-related matters over the past six weeks, with lots of input form Spicey plus anon WH sources to try and push the "erosion of trust" narrative. Interesting companion piece to the one on earlier contacts with Russian intel.
posted by holgate at 8:32 PM on February 14, 2017 [3 favorites]


But it was the party's responsibility to come up with a platform which excited a winning coalition, and it's stupid to blame voters for not getting excited by what the party offered. Akin to a company getting angry that its marketing campaign has failed, instead of shifting direction.

What? Either "it's not fascism" isn't legitimately not a strong brand in US politics or that statement is facile. I have to believe it's facile because if we have to get people excited about not letting white nationalists rule the roost we are well and truly fucked as a nation.
posted by Talez at 8:32 PM on February 14, 2017 [18 favorites]


Actually "a line dance, or whatever" as a listening opportunity sounds pretty great. Find out what messages might work by actually socially interacting with the people you want to message.
posted by nat at 8:33 PM on February 14, 2017 [3 favorites]


Have we already forgotten how OK it is to leave the recorders off for phone calls?

It is much, much harder to turn off the NSA's recorders.
posted by zachlipton at 8:36 PM on February 14, 2017 [10 favorites]


I'm sorry if this was spelled out previously, but does RLTP = "ReLitigating The Primary"?
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 8:36 PM on February 14, 2017 [5 favorites]


Either "it's not fascism" isn't legitimately not a strong brand in US politics or that statement is facile.

False dichotomy. More like "Candidate whom the Right has been sharpening their knives against for decades... but at least she's not fascism." No, it wasn't a strong brand.
posted by Coventry at 8:37 PM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


Jpfed, yes.
posted by Coventry at 8:38 PM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


great_radio - Ehhh. That "Trump server talking to Russia" story has a lot of problems. The Intercept got into some of them.
posted by rmd1023 at 8:40 PM on February 14, 2017 [2 favorites]


Have we already forgotten how OK it is to leave the recorders off for phone calls?

??? what does this mean?
posted by futz at 8:40 PM on February 14, 2017


I'm sorry if this was spelled out previously, but does RLTP = "ReLitigating The Primary"?

Yes. We don't like to do that which is why we're trying to be careful (Coventry is doing a better job than me) about not mentioning the names of the candidates and sticking with factions.
posted by Talez at 8:40 PM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


it's stupid to blame voters for not getting excited by what the party offered

I don't think anybody really does blame them for not being excited, though. I feel like the general problem is more: We all had this base assumption that most of the voting population was made up of mature adults who might not agree on a lot of stuff, but who would go with boring and even slightly disagreeable over outright crazy. What we got was a few more people than we expected who thought outright crazy sounded GREAT, and a genuinely distressing number of people who didn't think that the risk to modern civilization was worth voting for a woman they found disagreeable.

I think the deeper problem with American politics is that anybody wants to be excited, that anybody's vote hinges on excitement. Voting based on excitement seems guaranteed to lead to elections just like this. The conventional wisdom for years was that excitement was for primaries, for local elections, not for the important top-level stuff. If people are now going to start expecting it in the general election, then I almost think we need to pack it all in and say that democracy had a great run, because I can't see how it possibly lasts once we're basically running a reality show every four years to determine our leadership.
posted by Sequence at 8:40 PM on February 14, 2017 [79 favorites]


Actually "a line dance, or whatever" as a listening opportunity sounds pretty great. Find out what messages might work by actually socially interacting with the people you want to message.

It would play as out of touch, patronizing and insulting if we just waltzed into some small town with something like that, though. And also nobody would really show up to a line dance because it's not the early 90's. I totally agree we need to interact with people in outlying communities - I mean, if we actually give a shit about the issues we claim to, we want to help them too (even if it's easy to think, well, fuck 'em for going Trump, they have kids who will be effected by Trumpist policies), and there's faaaar too much assuming what they need help with and assuming we have the answers so we'll need their input - but it's going to be a slow process of building trust that has to be led by the Democrats already in those areas. My proposal to counter that one was to work through the party's contacts to identify allies and leaders in those areas and offer to help them while they take the lead, if that leads to a line dance or whatever great but it needs to be a natural progression.
posted by jason_steakums at 8:42 PM on February 14, 2017 [9 favorites]


I think the deeper problem with American politics is that anybody wants to be excited, that anybody's vote hinges on excitement. Voting based on excitement seems guaranteed to lead to elections just like this. The conventional wisdom for years was that excitement was for primaries, for local elections, not for the important top-level stuff. If people are now going to start expecting it in the general election, then I almost think we need to pack it all in and say that democracy had a great run, because I can't see how it possibly lasts once we're basically running a reality show every four years to determine our leadership.

Not to mention a big tent coalition is likely to deliver a milquetoast candidate simply because they're trying not to piss off all the different groups. Let's face it, it's hard to get excited about a sensible but milquetoast candidate and we saw that this election. People wondered where the enthusiasm for Hillary was in the primaries but the boring voters who vote in primaries came out in force because that's what boring voters do, they show up to every election whether they're excited or not.
posted by Talez at 8:44 PM on February 14, 2017 [6 favorites]


I think the deeper problem with American politics is that anybody wants to be excited, that anybody's vote hinges on excitement.

It's high school all over again. Competent nerds are out. Why can't you act like the cool jocks? Everyone loves the jocks.
posted by JackFlash at 8:45 PM on February 14, 2017 [10 favorites]


Christ this latest thing got me OUT OF BED to come check on the thread. If this keeps unraveling, and there is every reason to think it will, with more evidence of collusion between the russians and team shitstain, he'll have to resign, right? And hope Pence pardons him? Also that general strike on Friday just got a lot more energy. March on the white house. Demand resignation. The spooks in the IC may not be our friends but they sure don't like being treated as fools, and they sure don't like foreign spy agencies messing about in our country. They are doing us all a solid leaking and delving into this clusterfuck. I want to send someone a fresh apple pie.
posted by vrakatar at 8:48 PM on February 14, 2017 [7 favorites]


the boring voters who vote in primaries came out in force because that's what boring voters do, they show up to every election whether they're excited or not.

Can't get into that without RLTP, but you can't show that it simply came down to boring voters doing what boring voters do, and it's not true.
posted by Coventry at 8:49 PM on February 14, 2017


Regional Land Transport Plan? Road Less Traveled Productions? Google is not helping me out here, guys.
posted by showbiz_liz at 8:51 PM on February 14, 2017 [3 favorites]


Here's the WaPo tick-tock, with sourcing that comes mostly from the Obama White House side. It adds that Flynn was outside the US when he placed the call to Kislyak, that the Obama transition team withheld Russia-specific stuff from him, and that the Obama White House only knew about that FBI line of inquiry in early January, and Comey didn't brief the incoming administration until after the FBI interviewed Flynn. It also suggests Pence was willing to let him stay on.

(fwiw, I've watched the UK Labour Party go all Dave Spart over the past couple of years. It's not been great.)
posted by holgate at 8:52 PM on February 14, 2017 [8 favorites]


Relitigating the Primaries, showbiz_liz.
posted by Coventry at 8:53 PM on February 14, 2017


Oh, it's not on the wiki.
posted by Coventry at 8:54 PM on February 14, 2017


Now it is.
posted by Coventry at 8:55 PM on February 14, 2017 [9 favorites]


the boring voters who vote in primaries came out in force because that's what boring voters do, they show up to every election whether they're excited or not.

Well, the Republican boring voters do this. Democrats...not so much.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:55 PM on February 14, 2017


For all you guys are dancing around not relitigating the primaries, it sure feels like you're relitigating the primaries.
posted by biogeo at 8:56 PM on February 14, 2017 [69 favorites]


CNN is now naming Manafort on their front page.
posted by kimdog at 8:58 PM on February 14, 2017 [5 favorites]


while we're at it...waht's IOKIYAR?
posted by OHenryPacey at 8:59 PM on February 14, 2017 [5 favorites]


Well in some good news, Rumor the German Shepherd won best in show at Westminster.
posted by spitbull at 8:59 PM on February 14, 2017 [4 favorites]


Diehard Coders Just Rescued NASA’s Earth Science Data (Wired, Feb. 13, 2017)
Groups like DataRefuge and the Environmental Data and Governance Initiative, which organized the Berkeley hackathon to collect data from NASA’s earth sciences programs and the Department of Energy, are doing more than archiving. Diehard coders are building robust systems to monitor ongoing changes to government websites. And they’re keeping track of what’s already been removed—because yes, the pruning has already begun.
...
They can’t be sure when this data disappeared (or if anyone backed it up first). Scientists who understand it better will have to go back and take a look. But meantime, DataRefuge and EDGI understand that they need to be monitoring those changes and deletions.
...
By the end of the day, the group had collectively loaded 8,404 NASA and DOE webpages onto the Internet Archive, effectively covering the entirety of NASA’s earth science efforts.
And they have archived over 25 gigabytes from 101 public datasets, and are branching out to other resources, such as a National Parks Service "data portal that contains everything from park visitation stats to GIS boundaries to inventories of species."
posted by filthy light thief at 8:59 PM on February 14, 2017 [70 favorites]


IOKIYAR = It's OK If You're A Republican
posted by maudlin at 9:00 PM on February 14, 2017 [3 favorites]


IOKIYAR

It's Okay If You're A Reptillianshitgibbon. Or Republican.
posted by Celsius1414 at 9:00 PM on February 14, 2017 [8 favorites]


I know this article was poo-pooed at the time, but we're going to have to revisit this now right?

Was a Trump Server Communicating With Russia? By Franklin Foer

--

Ehhh. That "Trump server talking to Russia" story has a lot of problems. The Intercept got into some of them.


I dunno, I've been waiting for that to pop off again after Liz Spayd hinted that maybe the FBI's "all clear" on the server that the NYT reported wasn't so "all clear" and it was pressure from the FBI to table it for now. And none of the takedowns of the initial reporting have really addressed how the Alfa server reconnected after the Trump server popped up again with a new hostname. And that Intercept article submits as evidence old spam emails provided by Spectrum Health (a DeVos family interest) and Alfa bank, and, well, the trustworthiness of those sources is central to the whole thing. Aaaand, if I owned a hotel chain that threw a bunch of spammy emails around, an email server would be a phenomenal cover for a handful of back-channel messages.
posted by jason_steakums at 9:00 PM on February 14, 2017 [11 favorites]


while we're at it...waht's IOKIYAR?

This entire administration.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:03 PM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


Michael Ian Black thinks we're at step 2:

1. Flynn resigns over Russia.
2. Questions about Trump & Russia abound.
3. Trump decides he needs to "act tough" on Russia.
4. Pee tape!
posted by maudlin at 9:04 PM on February 14, 2017 [15 favorites]


The server thing seems very complicated and limited. If the parties were calling each other with regular phones, who would have been bothering with a Sekrit Server to handle Super Sekrit emails?
posted by Joe in Australia at 9:07 PM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


How long can the intelligence community keep leaking until the Trump administration compels it to stop? There has been talk of formal investigations about the leaks.

It seems to be a race against time. Can the intelligence community get enough stuff out there before it is gagged, in order to light a fire under Congress?

My guess is that the Trump White House will survive, although the Bad Guys like Miller and Bannon will be forced out by the GOP faction.

It's really sad that this palace intrigue bullshit has taken over political reporting. Little to no national reporting on, for example, the effort in Iowa to strip public sector workers of collective bargaining rights. Those rights will be gone by the end of the week.

Or whatever the hell is going on in Yemen. A score of civilians slaughtered in a raid planned directly by Trump, Bannon and Kuschner.
posted by My Dad at 9:08 PM on February 14, 2017 [10 favorites]


The bureau, Comey also insisted, shouldn’t be “the truth police,” according to an official familiar with his thinking at the time. “In other words, if there’s not a violation of law here, it’s not our job to go and tell the vice president that he’s been lied to.”

Jim Comey sure has some creative ideas about what is and isn't included in his job description.
posted by FelliniBlank at 9:11 PM on February 14, 2017 [46 favorites]


with more evidence of collusion between the russians and team shitstain, he'll have to resign, right?

If the Nixon years are anything to go by, he'll keep bleeding from similar leaks until 2018 (1972) at which point the blood will translate into commanding Democrat majorities in the House and Senate, and they'll investigate and impeach him.

Or the Republicans might decide to impeach him because he's ideologically out of sync with them (not really a starve-the-beast maniac.) They might use this issue as the pretext, but really it'll be to get their agenda implemented.

How long can the intelligence community keep leaking until the Trump administration compels it to stop? There has been talk of formal investigations about the leaks.

If the Nixon years are anything to go by, the US bureaucracy as a whole can keep these leaks up for a very long time.
posted by Coventry at 9:12 PM on February 14, 2017 [9 favorites]


How long can the intelligence community keep leaking until the Trump administration compels it to stop? There has been talk of formal investigations about the leaks.

It seems to be a race against time. Can the intelligence community get enough stuff out there before it is gagged, in order to light a fire under Congress?


How do you expect Trump to gag them and compel them to stop? Tell them 'stop, or be punished?' If those folks want stuff out they'll get it out no matter what Trump does.
posted by Jalliah at 9:14 PM on February 14, 2017 [4 favorites]


Can the intelligence community get enough stuff out there before it is gagged, in order to light a fire under Congress?

I think the fire is lit, and tomorrow will not be a slow news day. Congresscritters will want to get on the non-treasonous side of this story quickly, and the public- you and me and Joe and Joan six-pack- are getting angrier and angrier.
posted by vrakatar at 9:15 PM on February 14, 2017 [2 favorites]



And if Trump somehow does manage to gag them with some sort of US legal threat then all they have to do is get their buddies in other countries to leak for them. They're already all working together on this anyways.
posted by Jalliah at 9:16 PM on February 14, 2017


How long can the intelligence community keep leaking until the Trump administration compels it to stop?

A long time. Most of these people aren't subject to political appointments, they've been there for many administrations in a row. The Trump administration is tiny, just in raw numbers. He hasn't even nominated anyone for crucial lower level positions yet, where the real work is done day to day. There's 2 million career employees, and it's not hard to be smarter about hiding your contacts than calling the Russia ambassador on a monitored line. These people for the most part just want to get back to doing their jobs, they're leaking because Trump is making that impossible.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:17 PM on February 14, 2017 [6 favorites]


America's spies anonymously took down Michael Flynn. That is deeply worrying.
The United States is much better off without Michael Flynn serving as national security adviser. But no one should be cheering the way he was brought down.

The whole episode is evidence of the precipitous and ongoing collapse of America's democratic institutions — not a sign of their resiliency.
posted by cell divide at 9:17 PM on February 14, 2017 [10 favorites]


And if Trump somehow does manage to gag them with some sort of US legal threat then all they have to do is get their buddies in other countries to leak for them. They're already all working together on this anyways.

Huh. Well I did tell my 14-year-old son over the dinner table tonight that he's witnessing history at the moment. He didn't get it. "Aren't we witnessing history every day, Dad?"
posted by My Dad at 9:19 PM on February 14, 2017 [10 favorites]


America's spies anonymously took down Michael Flynn. That is deeply worrying.

An a non-American (a "foreigner", if you will), from the outside what's happening in the US looks like something out of an autocratic country. Egypt. Uzbekistan. Thailand.
posted by My Dad at 9:21 PM on February 14, 2017 [35 favorites]


if it's not the job of the intelligence community to reveal foreign influence at the highest levels of government then i guess i don't know what their job is?
posted by murphy slaw at 9:21 PM on February 14, 2017 [105 favorites]


I don't doubt that people would say Reince is trying to clean house, he's the only party guy in the place. Everyone else is New York trash.

From what I'm reading, I'm not so solid on the intelligence community role here. Congresspeople can leak, too.
posted by rhizome at 9:21 PM on February 14, 2017 [4 favorites]


How long can the intelligence community keep leaking until the Trump administration compels it to stop?

Well, he can't fire them all and at this point there must be safety in numbers. It seems like it would be easier to find one of them not leaking information at this stage than the reverse.
posted by lesbiassparrow at 9:22 PM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


It seems to be a race against time.

what? you think that there is some magical shutoff valve? that seems pretty naive Dad.
posted by futz at 9:22 PM on February 14, 2017


Aside from investigation and impeachment, my other hope here is that this really kicks the governments of France and Germany into "don't fuck around with this and let it fester, act NOW" territory. Le Pen's blatant Russia backing especially needs to be dealt with. I hope the investigations shine some light on things France and Germany can use, and our intelligence services can shift to helping them out with untangling international Russian influence when the immediate threat at home is dealt with.
posted by jason_steakums at 9:22 PM on February 14, 2017 [20 favorites]


America's spies anonymously took down Michael Flynn. That is deeply worrying.
Unelected intelligence analysts work for the president, not the other way around.
I thought after Nixon we ALL agreed this was a bad idea.
posted by Talez at 9:23 PM on February 14, 2017 [25 favorites]


And that Intercept article submits as evidence old spam emails provided by Spectrum Health (a DeVos family interest)

I still don't see the whole Spectrum Health thing. I mean, sure the DeVos family has given lots of money to it (hence the Helen DeVos Children's Hospital) but that is true for every major institution in the West Michigan area. Maybe I misunderstood the smoking-gun nature of the email server Russia - Spectrum - DeVos whatever-it-is when this came up before, but it's not like Spectrum Health is some podunk 30-bed hospital in the middle of nowhere that gets used as some weird pass-through for DeVos chicanery, John Grisham-style almost? Spectrum's a legit, fairly large hospital system. (Full disclosure: I grew up in GR and my mum was for decades a nurse at several of the hospitals that are now part of Spectrum.)

I see that there's a DeVos (presumably related - I don't recognize her name) on the board as secretary and that Dick DeVos (Betsy's husband) is an Emeritus Trustee, which as far as I would guess means merely "guy that gave a lot of money to us so we gave him an honorary seat on the board".

If there's more to the story, sure, but my gut tells me this is pizzagate territory. I don't think the DeVos family is on the Russian-spy side of the Administration, they're pretty firmly in the theocratic / business-establishment corner.

sotto voce: and, if it comes to an Article 25-style soft coup? I think Betsy DeVos would sign right up.
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:24 PM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


That piece cell divide linked is, like the Bloomberg piece, too cutesy by half: [my emphasis in quote]
It is the role of Congress to investigate the president and those who work for him. If Congress resists doing its duty, out of a mixture of self-interest and cowardice, the American people have no choice but to try and hold the government's feet to the fire, demanding action with phone calls, protests, and, ultimately, votes. That is a democratic response to the failure of democracy.
O hai have you met Paul Ryan (R), Jason Chaffetz (R) and Mitch McConnell (R)? They have something in common: can you guess what it is? You may have seen the latter's previous roles in "filibuster everything" and "deny a president a chance to choose a Supreme Court Justice."
posted by holgate at 9:25 PM on February 14, 2017 [13 favorites]


The CBC radio commentary I heard today described routine recordings of Flynne's conversations with Russian embassy as the source of info leading to his resignation, while the NYT article about campaign contacts talks about intercepts and investigations...

Kathryn Stoner, a prof from Stanford, was the person on CBC's Power and Politics talking about it being routine to record conversations of officials with foriegn diplomats... So my question is whether it's routine for all conversations of campaign teams to be monitored, or is that atypical? Or just if they talk to foreigners? And how would they know if not already monitoring?
I mean I want drumpf impeached (as a Canadian outside observer, but still) but I'd be very disturbed if there were hone taps on the political parties in Canada. Am I missing something?
posted by chapps at 9:26 PM on February 14, 2017


what? you think that there is some magical shutoff valve? that seems pretty naive Dad.

Not naive. Unlike you, I have experience working in government.
posted by My Dad at 9:27 PM on February 14, 2017


Unelected intelligence analysts work for the president, not the other way around.

Like everyone else in the government, unelected intelligence analysts, and EPA scientists, and park rangers work for the American people. What were they supposed to do, turn all this info over to the very Traitor-in-Chief whose people are implicated in the collusion and keep their mouths shut when he promptly buried it?
posted by FelliniBlank at 9:27 PM on February 14, 2017 [101 favorites]


From what I'm reading, I'm not so solid on the intelligence community role here. Congresspeople can leak, too.

I hadn't thought about that but I can see it. Both parties know that the Republicans won't move on Trump until they absolutely are forced to. The Democrats with access to intel, and McCain and Graham if they mean a word of what they say, all have an interest in stoking the fire to hold McConnell and Ryan's feet to. McCain and Graham also want political cover. There's actually a lot of motivation for Congressfolks to be a cutout for these sources.
posted by jason_steakums at 9:29 PM on February 14, 2017 [2 favorites]


This tweet from October seems appropriate.

@tomscocca:
Nothing about Trump has ever looked kinda bad at first but turned out OK. He's always worse than you thought.
posted by chris24 at 9:31 PM on February 14, 2017 [96 favorites]


So my question is whether it's routine for all conversations of campaign teams to be monitored, or is that atypical? Or just if they talk to foreigners? And how would they know if not already monitoring?

It's not that campaigns are routinely monitored, but many known foreign agents such as ambassadors and senior staff, especially from countries as important/sensitive as Russia -- their communications are going to be routinely monitored, as much as possible. Which is how Flynn got caught -- he wasn't the target of the CIA/NSA monitoring, the Russian ambassador was. Flynn just happened (so to speak) to be the guy on the other end of the line.

That is, until the intelligence folks realized this was a thing, and began investigating Flynn specifically.

... or so I interpret it.
posted by suelac at 9:32 PM on February 14, 2017 [9 favorites]


Yes, there are phone taps on every phone line. The only question is if anyone is recording.
posted by Yowser at 9:34 PM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


My personal reaction to "the spies are going after the civilians":

Professional civil servants are a line of defense against autocracy. They aren't the first line. We have three branches of government and you usually see them talked about when it comes to checks and balances. We profesionalized them after the Gilded Age precisely to deal with corruption. So we also hope the professional class, the ones you can't fire, will provide competence and integrity. They are not supposed to have to do those things but it happens, from a lowly police officer not ripping up a ticket for one of the mayor's cronies, up to someone like Ellsberg leaking.

Only in autocracies are these people willing to do the executives' bidding. When Trump came in the one reason I wasn't quite as despairing as others is that these people are an additional line of defense. Now I admit when I said this I was thinking of EPA scientists or HUD bureaucrats. And bureaucrats can be obstructionist for bad reasons as well as good, for sure. It's case by case; not like I support Comey's approach to selective publicity and indeed I think it was unconscionable.

But in this case? Here it sure seems like they tried to go through channels, with Yates briefing the president on this promptly before she was fired. This is all so bizarre and I can't see through the haze of confusion but I think it is far more probable than not that this is democracy working, not failing. It's not a coup. It's the people the republic appointed to uphold the law actually upholding the law. In extreme and risky situations.
posted by mark k at 9:34 PM on February 14, 2017 [101 favorites]


in all the hubbub i forgot to mention that david brooks' column today is titled "How To Resist", and i scrutinized his author photo pretty carefully and there's no goatee so i guess we aren't actually in the mirror universe?
posted by murphy slaw at 9:35 PM on February 14, 2017 [11 favorites]


I mean I want drumpf impeached (as a Canadian outside observer, but still) but I'd be very disturbed if there were hone taps on the political parties in Canada. Am I missing something?

On the one hand, the CIA might not care enough about what Tom Mulcair's having for breakfast to bug his lines. On the other, they probably can do it if they want so maybe they are just in case it comes in handy.

My guess would be the latter.
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:35 PM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


in all the hubbub i forgot to mention that david brooks' column today is titled "How To Resist", and i scrutinized his author photo pretty carefully and there's no goatee so i guess we aren't actually in the mirror universe?

Dunno. It is possible David Brooks is not evil, just completely lack of virtue. So mirror universe David Brooks is actually exactly the same as our David Brooks.
posted by mark k at 9:37 PM on February 14, 2017 [20 favorites]


But don't worry, our President has not the slightest clue who Tom Mulcair (or probably Stephen Harper, even) are and wouldn't have the patience for a 15-second explanation thereon so, uh. Yeah.
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:37 PM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


Well I got to get some sleep but I'm all giddy and nervous and engaged. Setting an early alarm so I can scan the news in the morning, Tally ho, good people of the blue. The shitstain is going down, hopefully sooner rather than later. I know Pence sucks as well but he might also be compromised, and it will be ugly and messy and dangerous, but sometimes we have to learn the hard way. You'd think we would have learned enough with Nixon. I guess not.
posted by vrakatar at 9:37 PM on February 14, 2017


if it's not the job of the intelligence community to reveal foreign influence at the highest levels of government then i guess i don't know what their job is?

There is a history of the Dulles brothers and wall street interests you might want to spend some time exploring.

Elsewhere: The CIA as Economic Spy: The Misuse of U.S. Intelligence After the Cold War
posted by rough ashlar at 9:41 PM on February 14, 2017 [6 favorites]


CSIS did spy on Tommy Douglas, father of Canadian Medicare, I guess that's what made me think of it.
posted by chapps at 9:42 PM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


...evidence of the precipitous and ongoing collapse of America's democratic institutions — not a sign of their resiliency.
America's democratic institutions have been growing less and less resilient for decades. It was inevitable that the thinning ice of our system would be broken through... and it would be a Republican elephant to do it; it's just almost entertaining to see the obese buffoon strapped to a giant TRUMP sign riding it. There will be the need for a lot of rebuilding (the Oroville Dam is too good an analogy). But there are fewer people of good faith close enough to the process than there were when Nixon cracked the ice in the '70s (and even back then the repairs were inadequate and too cosmetic). These are the "interesting times" they warned us all about.
posted by oneswellfoop at 9:45 PM on February 14, 2017 [4 favorites]


(my comment was not intended to indicate that i think the IC or indeed the US Government in general are a force for good, just that if there is any justification for a sovereign nation to have an intelligence service, the current situation is it)
posted by murphy slaw at 9:45 PM on February 14, 2017 [2 favorites]


(I wasn't thinking of the US spying on Canadian parties, more about what the internal us rules are to kick-start monitoring their own political syayem... Like do they get a warrant before tapping the phone of the trump team (or Hilary team or Jill stein). Etc.?
posted by chapps at 9:46 PM on February 14, 2017


Like, the assumption is always that because we are far left, we're the smartest people in the room, the ones who really know how it is, and everyone else does whatever they do out of ignorance or hypocrisy.

Husband is an anarcho-syndicalist or whatever. I'm... well, whatever else I am, I'm a realist, so I tend to align myself with the left and Democrats when necessary (which is frequently because I'm a boring every-election voter). I've gotten the distinct impression this year while conversing with said spouse that I frequently surprise him with my wokeness. Don't look at my voting record and think I don't know what I'm doing and that I don't understand some shit. I understand, I just disagree on some key tactical points. And a lot of my disagreement comes from knowing that, as a woman, when shit goes down, it'll go down on me harder and faster. You say you want a revolution, etc... So, yeah, a little less smug coming from that corner would be appreciated. I'd like to work together on this, but I'd also like to be respected as not an idiot, so.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:46 PM on February 14, 2017 [92 favorites]


I wonder if all the people mad at the intelligence agencies for leaking this stuff about Trump would also be mad at Claus von Stauffenberg and Carl Goerdeler for "plotting treason"...
posted by dhens at 9:47 PM on February 14, 2017 [3 favorites]


Aaaaand CNN's version: "constant communication during the campaign with Russians known to US intelligence." Multiple sources, multiple agencies.

Special sauce: the intel included intercepts of Russian operatives talking among themselves and boasting about special access to the orange menace, and that the conversations included people involved in the Family Business, not just the campaign.
posted by holgate at 9:48 PM on February 14, 2017 [90 favorites]


well that escalated quickly
posted by murphy slaw at 9:49 PM on February 14, 2017 [7 favorites]


Special sauce: the intel included intercepts of Russian operatives talking among themselves and boasting about special access to the orange menace, and that the conversations included people involved in the Family Business, not just the campaign.

Hi there Michael Cohen, I was wondering when you'd be back in the news again!
posted by jason_steakums at 9:50 PM on February 14, 2017 [11 favorites]


Can the intelligence community get enough stuff out there before it is gagged, in order to light a fire under Congress?

i apologize for offending you but there is no 'pull a lever/stop leaks' safeguard. Perhaps you meant something else but that was my interpretation. Leaks will find a way, Watergate for example.

Not naive. Unlike you, I have experience working in government.

How could you possibly know that?
posted by futz at 9:51 PM on February 14, 2017 [10 favorites]


Oh man. I have an early flight tomorrow so I'm going to have to pack this in, but Godspeed, fourth estate. Tomorrow is going to be interesting.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:52 PM on February 14, 2017 [3 favorites]


Sally Yates is a real good example of what happens to people who "work for President Trump" and go by the book in approaching the administration with info about its problems. Just how much more severely would somebody be dealt with who, unlike her, is not a prominent public figure with an exhaustive well-known reputation?
posted by FelliniBlank at 9:55 PM on February 14, 2017 [7 favorites]


in all the hubbub i forgot to mention that david brooks' column today is titled "How To Resist", and i scrutinized his author photo pretty carefully and there's no goatee so i guess we aren't actually in the mirror universe?

Oh sweet baby Jesus, David Brooks is wrong on so many levels. (column)

So first off, he thinks there are three possibilities: a "repressive kleptocracy", which calls for a Bonhoeffer; "stagnation and corruption", which calls for a St. Benedict (withdrawal from Washington politics, quietism, local activism); and just good old ineptitude, which calls for a Gerald Ford.

Unsurprisingly, Brooks takes the most milquetoast option: "Personally, I don’t think we’re at a Bonhoeffer moment or a Benedict moment. I think we’re approaching a Ford moment. If the first three weeks are any guide, this administration will not sustain itself for a full term. We’ll need a Ford, or rather a generation of Fords to restore effective governance."

OK so that's stupid point #1.

The second, and more stupid thing in my opinion, is that Brooks' idea of resisting the most alarming (and most quickly discarded) possibility -- that of authoritarian kleptocracy is the Bonhoeffer option, which he describes thusly:
Bonhoeffer was a Lutheran pastor who became an anti-Nazi dissident. Between 1933 and his capture in 1943, he condemned the Reich, protested the persecution of the Jews, organized underground seminaries and joined the German resistance. In the face of fascism, he wrote, it was not enough to simply “bandage the victims under the wheels of injustice, but jam a spoke into the wheel itself.”

If we are in a Bonhoeffer moment, then aggressive nonviolent action makes sense: marching in the streets, blocking traffic, disrupting town halls, vehement rhetoric to mobilize mass opposition.
Conveniently forgetting that Dietrich Bonhoeffer was martyred by the Nazis on April 9, 1945 at the Flossenbürg concentration camp, where he was being held not for protesting at fucking town halls, but in connection with a failed coup attempt (my understanding is that he wasn't directly involved but was quite probably aware of the plot).

In conclusion: Ugh, David Brooks.
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:56 PM on February 14, 2017 [28 favorites]


(I wasn't thinking of the US spying on Canadian parties, more about what the internal us rules are to kick-start monitoring their own political syayem... Like do they get a warrant before tapping the phone of the trump team (or Hilary team or Jill stein). Etc.?

Ah.

Yeah, they're probably doing that too, although I think the CIA is not supposed to be involved with domestic surveillance of US citizen --> US citizen communications.

But, who's going to know?
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:57 PM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


Hi there Michael Cohen, I was wondering when you'd be back in the news again!

"Says who?"

"The spies? All of them."
posted by kirkaracha at 10:03 PM on February 14, 2017 [25 favorites]


But, who's going to know?

In this administration, everyone. And rather quickly, apparently.
posted by lesbiassparrow at 10:04 PM on February 14, 2017 [2 favorites]


omg, NYT headline right now

White House Upheaval Complicates Netanyahu Visit

you keep doin' you, grey lady
posted by murphy slaw at 10:08 PM on February 14, 2017 [7 favorites]


Just how much more severely would somebody be dealt with who, unlike her, is not a prominent public figure with an exhaustive well-known reputation?

Can't fire 'em all. And can't fire the people who are no longer in government. It's a good reminder that the Family Business kept its secrets by keeping things in the family (plus a small group of trusted execs) while having people outside that group sign extensive NDAs. Omertà and SEE YOU IN COURT aren't good training for handling leaks from large institutional entities that don't trust you.
posted by holgate at 10:11 PM on February 14, 2017 [14 favorites]


Yeah, they're probably doing that too, although I think the CIA is not supposed to be involved with domestic surveillance of US citizen --> US citizen communications.
But, who's going to know?


Yes, who will know if there are no whistleblowers or leakers.

How did the CIA backed Gladio effort become known to the world?
posted by rough ashlar at 10:12 PM on February 14, 2017


I would have to think pretty much everyone, including the Russian Ambassador, would have assumed that the US taps the Russian Ambassador's ordinary telephone. We're talking about two countries that have spent the better part of a century coming up with increasingly clever ways to spy on each other's embassies (seriously, go learn about "The Thing," a ridiculously clever passive listening device inserted into a plaque of The Great Seal of the United States that was presented to the US Ambassador by school children in the 40s, and then there was the time in the 70s the Russians built bugs into IBM Selectric typewriters used at the US Embassy).

So the question is whether: Flynn is too stupid to actually realize this, despite an increasingly unhinged career in military intelligence; he realized it but didn't care because he thought he could get away with it; or, he and the Ambassador took some steps, fruitlessly, to secure their communications. No matter which one happened, none of these scenarios paint a pretty picture for Flynn.
posted by zachlipton at 10:12 PM on February 14, 2017 [29 favorites]


Gah! Does he put that shit on by himself?

Yes he does, or at least as recently as last year did. I haven't shot him but know two photographers who have. Between being a germaphobe and not liking anyone touching him, and a control freak who thinks he can do anything better, he doesn't like/want/allow MUAs to do it. And it makes color toning/correcting portraits of him a nightmare. Oh, and the white eyes? Not just spots missed by the orange, but actually intentional and added because he thinks it makes his eyes pop and makes him look more powerful.
posted by chris24 at 9:18 PM on February 14


He's a germaphobe? Hmm.... suddenly we have greater insight into why he would include having someone pee on him during foreplay...
posted by Nanukthedog at 10:12 PM on February 14, 2017 [4 favorites]


I really think that Donnie genuinely believed that this corruption and collusion is how the Presidency really worked and if Obama could do it, it would be a cakewalk for him. Never crossed his mind that very few Presidents have even approached this line, and that those that did were smarter and better at it than him and still mostly got caught.
posted by jason_steakums at 10:15 PM on February 14, 2017 [59 favorites]



Flynn is too stupid to actually realize this, despite an increasingly unhinged career in military intelligence;


DIA vs CIA/NSA difference in remit, techniques and focus is enough, especially for a guy whose last job actually producing was sometime in the 90s.

Edit: Flynn maybe oversaw the DCS expansion, which makes his carelessness very odd.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 10:21 PM on February 14, 2017 [2 favorites]


I know long Twitter threads are annoying to read, but this thread is worth it. It's by Jesse Lehrich, who was Hilary Clinton's foreign policy advisor.

In it, he lays out "[t]he depth, breadth, and nature of Trump camp's Russian connections," detailing the links between 11 (!) individuals in the DJT inner circle, backed up with links and images.

It's... a lot.
posted by Superplin at 10:24 PM on February 14, 2017 [45 favorites]


> I really think that Donnie genuinely believed that this corruption and collusion is how the Presidency really worked and if Obama could do it, it would be a cakewalk for him.

So they drank their own Kool-aid? Given how utterly stupid this idea sounds, I think you've hit the nail on the head. Like, What does Trump see when he looks in Trump's Mirror?
posted by RedOrGreen at 10:25 PM on February 14, 2017 [7 favorites]


So they drank their own Kool-aid? Given how utterly stupid this idea sounds, I think you've hit the nail on the head. Like, What does Trump see when he looks in Trump's Mirror?

I'd also argue that corruption and collusion is also how Donald has done business his whole life. It's what he knows, maybe all he really knows. He thinks gov't is just like another business so why wouldn't he just keep doing the same shit while governing. If he also genuinely believes that Obama did it and therefore it's easy then it just re-enforces the way he thinks the rest of the world and business works.
posted by Jalliah at 10:40 PM on February 14, 2017 [25 favorites]


Michael Ian Black thinks we're at step 2:

1. Flynn resigns over Russia.
2. Questions about Trump & Russia abound.
3. Trump decides he needs to "act tough" on Russia.
4. Pee tape!



Of course, #4 could also be: Russia apologizes, is rewarded with lifting of sanctions.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 10:42 PM on February 14, 2017 [2 favorites]


> I really think that Donnie genuinely believed that this corruption and collusion is how the Presidency really worked and if Obama could do it, it would be a cakewalk for him.

So they drank their own Kool-aid? Given how utterly stupid this idea sounds, I think you've hit the nail on the head. Like, What does Trump see when he looks in Trump's Mirror?


Corruption and collusion is how the Trump family run a lemonade stand. He just assumes that's how everything is done.
posted by ckape at 10:45 PM on February 14, 2017 [10 favorites]


"I know long Twitter threads are annoying to read, but this thread is worth it. It's by Jesse Lehrich, who was Hilary Clinton's foreign policy advisor."

Storified for your convenience.
posted by Hairy Lobster at 10:49 PM on February 14, 2017 [39 favorites]


DIA vs CIA/NSA difference in remit, techniques and focus is enough, especially for a guy whose last job actually producing was sometime in the 90s.

Edit: Flynn maybe oversaw the DCS expansion, which makes his carelessness very odd.

Foreign communications are officially fair game. Embassies are foreign soil. All embassies, everywhere at every time, are aware of this and are aware that host governments will be attempting to break their comms. This is so much fair game where people don't even bother complaining when spying is detected. Anyone who thinks you can ring a foreign ambassador and avoid either the whole conversation being listened to and/or the metadata for encrypted communication having extreme attention paid to it is remarkably naive.

Acting in that way when you were a DIA head and soon-to-be-NSA is flat out insane levels of incompetence, because either you think that it's not being listened to or you think that that contact being discovered is not going to result in a really heavy/career limiting political price being paid. Either suggests idiocy.
posted by jaduncan at 10:52 PM on February 14, 2017 [8 favorites]


It's what he knows, maybe all he really knows.

In more fairness than I'd usually grant, he's had plenty of encounters that objectively count as collusion and corruption on the part of gov't: finagling eminent domain stuff, greasing wheels with campaign donations, etc. City politics in NYC and state politics in NY, NJ and FL aren't exactly the cleanest. And that's even before considering the overseas ventures with politically-connected partners. When $25k and a Mar-a-Lago fundraiser is apparently enough to get Pam Bondi[*] to drop an investigation into your fake university, or when Betsy DeVos can buy off most of the GOP Senate for a cool million, why wouldn't you think that grubby transactional politics applies to foreign relations and national security too?

* hm, haven't heard much about her rumoured White House job since early January.
posted by holgate at 10:56 PM on February 14, 2017 [16 favorites]


One small point: I don't think the problems with the Yemen operation and the serviceman dying are any more Trump's and Bannon's fault than the fiasco in Iran in 1979 was Carter's.

The question in both cases is whether the sitting president asked the right questions to get the information necessary to make a sound, reasoned, and informed decision about whether to give the green light to the raid. You can sort of buy that Carter maybe just had rotten luck, but it might still be the case that he should have been asking more penetrating questions about whether the equipment had been tested in desert conditions and so on. It's hard to imagine Trump asking much.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 10:57 PM on February 14, 2017 [8 favorites]


I really think that Donnie genuinely believed that this corruption and collusion is how the Presidency really worked and if Obama could do it, it would be a cakewalk for him.

Yeah, I think Trump does assume "both sides do it" which explains a lot of the Trump's Mirror phenomena (I do X, therefore they probably also do X, so by accusing them of X there's a good chance I'll be proven right), and I also think the same mentality extends further to the "low information" voters in general.

When Clinton called out the Putin puppet in the debates, I think many people either thought (A) she's making up shade to throw just like the other side does, or (B) her info is good but so is the info being shouted by the doomsayers about Benghazi, emailgate, etc, etc, and they're probably equally corrupt.

Without really getting deep into fact-checking, they can't imagine an unbalanced world where one side has alarming true information, and the other is spewing bogus garbage. It also doesn't help when team garbage has the FBI director, Russian hackers, and an army of disinformation trolls at their disposal.
posted by p3t3 at 11:05 PM on February 14, 2017 [52 favorites]


Meanwhile, in Williamsburg
posted by dirigibleman at 11:39 PM on February 14, 2017 [4 favorites]


Don't take that @trump_regrets Twitter account seriously, half the submissions are trolls, the other half are people regretting their vote because they feel Trump is getting soft and not being enough of an asshole.
posted by PenDevil at 11:48 PM on February 14, 2017 [6 favorites]


Well yeah, it's a classic snowjob. I know my mom had called Hillary a bitch in the past and I stole the joke from wherever that went "to think part of the reason we're dealing with Trump because a bunch of people thought Hillary was a bitch."

I don't think the problems with the Yemen operation and the serviceman dying are any more Trump's and Bannon's fault than the fiasco in Iran in 1979 was Carter's.

Totally different. The hostage rescue thing was totally botched in execution, the timing was fine (for all I know) and perhaps most importantly, no part of the failure was due to resistance. The rescue was a shitshow in results, the Yemen thing apparently resembled a shitshow in practice. Black Hawk Down style (though to be fair, the BHD problems started catastrophically, more like an Eagle Claw that turned into a Yemen). Carter gave the go to an operation that for all intents and purposes should not have had the problems it did, Trump apparently shot his wad. I feel bad not having better characterizations of Trumps decision, but from what I understand [sic] it wasn't a particularly time-critical task.

@JoeMande
Trump is playing four-dimensional Candyland

posted by rhizome at 11:51 PM on February 14, 2017 [12 favorites]


All in all I think its a tossup whether Trump or William Henry Harrison had the worst first month.
posted by Justinian at 1:09 AM on February 15, 2017 [17 favorites]


NYT: What Are Your Rights If Border Agents Want To Search Your Phone?:
Can agents force you to unlock your phone or laptop?

No. But they can ask you to comply voluntarily and make the experience rather uncomfortable if you resist. Travelers must decide how much trouble they’re willing to put up with.

You may end up losing your device, since agents could seize the device for weeks before it is returned. They could also copy the data. (That data must be destroyed “as expeditiously as possible” if it is not valuable, according to Homeland Security policy.)

. . . Hassan Shibly, the chief executive director of Council on American-Islamic Relations-Florida, suggested that people buy “burner phones” that they can discard before entering the airport.

Ms. Cope said people should power down their devices before getting to the airport, and encrypt the data they travel with. (Wired has a guide to the technical aspects of keeping your data safe.)
posted by cybercoitus interruptus at 1:24 AM on February 15, 2017 [7 favorites]


May have been linked here, but I can't find it with my googlefu. Can you link that Wired article Cybercoitus?
posted by thebotanyofsouls at 1:53 AM on February 15, 2017


I'd like an SNL short that shows Spicer in some state of existential despair. Like as he's answering a question, trying to wrap his lips around some stubborn word, he flashes onto the words of dear old dad saying something like with great power comes great responsibility and then back in the present, Spicer is trying to bleat desperately about the erosion of trust, and there's another flash to Spicer reading some think piece about the rise of facism, and cut back to him bleating about fake news, with a final cut of him on like a desolate beach or maybe amongst the smoking ruins of D.C. screaming *I'm sorry! I'm sorry! I'm sorry!*

I dunno, I've been slightly Spicey obsessed since I heard him sort of snarl "Happy Valentines Day!" yesterday. It's like, he probably goes home and just tunes out with sports and porn, but what if there is some lost soul within Spicey, fighting to be free?
posted by angrycat at 2:24 AM on February 15, 2017 [7 favorites]


Special sauce: the intel included intercepts of Russian operatives talking among themselves and boasting about special access to the orange menace, and that the conversations included people involved in the Family Business, not just the campaign.

I would put money on ole DJ Dunce being involved somehow.
posted by sallybrown at 2:33 AM on February 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


So the question is whether: Flynn is too stupid to actually realize this, despite an increasingly unhinged career in military intelligence; he realized it but didn't care because he thought he could get away with it; or, he and the Ambassador took some steps, fruitlessly, to secure their communications. No matter which one happened, none of these scenarios paint a pretty picture for Flynn.

I really think that Donnie genuinely believed that this corruption and collusion is how the Presidency really worked and if Obama could do it, it would be a cakewalk for him. Never crossed his mind that very few Presidents have even approached this line, and that those that did were smarter and better at it than him and still mostly got caught.

I think the second quote here answers the first. I can't imagine that Flynn would not know they were being surveilled. Security runs so deep and is so near instinctive in all parts of the military, I think even demented people would uphold precautions. But I also think that everyone in the Trump team, including Flynn, has an only rudimentary understanding of government, and that they all imagined that when they got the reins, they would be all-powerful and able to be all-corrupt. Thus, any "tapes" there might be on them could simply be disappeared.
I think that when the Obama administration refrained from outing them before the election, their conclusion was not that Obama was doing the correct thing, but that he was weak, and by extension that Clinton was, too. I think this empowered them, and led them to ever bolder and stupider acts/crimes. I think they are genuinely confounded by the reality of government — nothing they assumed is there, and they are unable to decode what is actually there. Even the corrupt congress works in a different way than what they imagined.

On the other hand, this boundless ignorance makes them incredibly difficult to decode for Washington - pols, pundits and journos alike. While we are all here sitting on the back bench screaming "look, look, they are doing (some crazy act/crime)", people immersed in politics can't believe their own eyes or ears and imagine things such as Steve Bannon is some mastermind behind the scenes managing a huge plot. (Spoiler: he's not, he is just an old drunk who believes in conspiracies because he can't figure out how stuff works)

Oh, and Putin got incredibly lucky. But luck is preparation meeting opportunity.
posted by mumimor at 2:37 AM on February 15, 2017 [38 favorites]


All in all I think its a tossup whether Trump or William Henry Harrison had the worst first month.

Well, there's still 6 days to go until a month is up.
posted by MikeKD at 2:52 AM on February 15, 2017 [13 favorites]


Incompetence saving us from malice.

When the brilliant, incisive Stephen Miller got out onto the Sunday shows and shots his volley across the bows of any mere mortal foolish enough to even dream of thinking of contemplating any kind of attempt to diminish the mighty orange hued glory of the current president... it occurred to me that these guys are a bunch of fucking yahoos.

The tactic of leaving them in the administration and doing absolutely nothing but pout and preen and proclaiming for four years... might be a working strategy.
posted by From Bklyn at 2:52 AM on February 15, 2017 [8 favorites]


Bad people don't know they're bad. Flynn probably knew he was being recorded but didn't see it as a problem because in his mind he was obviously doing the right thing albeit in a discreet way.
posted by um at 2:53 AM on February 15, 2017


If Flynn was so sure he was doing the right thing, why lie about it?
posted by zachlipton at 2:57 AM on February 15, 2017 [6 favorites]


Russia invading Finland has traditionally gone very poorly for the Russians. SISU!!!!!!

This was before the Russians had nuclear weapons. That Finnish super-sniper who killed 800 Red Army soldiers and survived increasingly desperate carpet-bombing campaigns might not have come out so well against a tac nuke. Or alternatively, a Russia tired of Finnish resistance could decide to Hiroshima, say, Espoo or Rovaniemi or somewhere, and then another city, unless Finland unconditionally surrenders.
posted by acb at 2:59 AM on February 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


If Flynn was so sure he was doing the right thing, why lie about it?

Cuz he's the only one cool enough to know the truth. I'm sure his mind is like, "well it's not like I was bragging about it."
posted by rhizome at 3:00 AM on February 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


The whole campaign was built on lies. Lies are the new truth, after all, and Flynn rolled with it.
posted by mochapickle at 3:09 AM on February 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


I'm pretty sure Flynn would have understood from the context of his instructions that he was supposed to keep his communications with the Russians secret, especially if he knew about the secret commission.
posted by Joe in Australia at 3:15 AM on February 15, 2017


The tactic of leaving them in the administration and doing absolutely nothing but pout and preen and proclaiming for four years... might be a working strategy.

Relieving sanctions on Russia, threatening to destabilize NATO, pissing off Mexico to the extent that Mexico isn't going to buy our corn any more ...
posted by sebastienbailard at 3:33 AM on February 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


Those of a certain age and geographic origin saw their birthright position in a lifelong factory job erode under one Clinton

Let us not contribute to the Trumpian meme machine. Absolute manufacturing employment peaked in the US in 1979. Since then there have been 20 years of Republican presidencies vs. 16 for Democrats. In absolute numbers the very sharp declines happened under republicans and modest but real recoveries happened under Bill Clinton and Barack Obama. The worst period of decline in manufacturing employment and real income for those with only a HS degree occurred under GW Bush. The "Clinton stole
muh factory jerb with NAFTA" line is actually, econometrically speaking, utter bullshit. Reagan stole your jerb. Bush 2 made sure you never got it back.
posted by spitbull at 4:23 AM on February 15, 2017 [149 favorites]


pissing off Mexico to the extent that Mexico isn't going to buy our corn any more

Oh, who cares? Whilst this sideshow was going on, Trump signed the executive order making it OK for US oil companies to bribe foreign governments and keep it a total secret.

Here's how it obviously works:

US Oil Exec: "Hey, brutal dickheaded dictator. Here's $Millions that you can keep for yourself. Just let us exploit the natural resources that rightfully belong to your people, and not to you personally. You get all the shit you want, and who cares about your population, yeah?"

Brutal dickheaded dictator: "Sounds good to me"

Population: "Fuck you both"

Radicals: "Fuck you both, but we have weapons and are willing to die"

Rest of population: "Well, better get heading for a safe Western country. Brutal dickheaded dictator is oppressing us, and that makes us refugees"

US and other Western population: "OMG! Refugees and radicals! Won't somebody save us?!??"

Rinse and repeat.
posted by UbuRoivas at 4:25 AM on February 15, 2017 [54 favorites]


The good news is that whatever Trump does by executive order can be undone by executive order. The bad news is it'll take at least 4 years to do that.

Or two years if a miracle occurred. But that's not going to happen.
posted by Justinian at 4:29 AM on February 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


Here's hopefully a hint of things to come. Last night, Rs won the MN House seat 32B special election 53-47, which doesn't sound great until you realize that Trump won it by 29 points. In three months Rs lost 23 points.

Where it gets interesting is Tom Price's seat in GA (GA-6) was only won by Trump by one point. We really need to win that seat to send a message that a price (ha) will be paid for enabling Trump.
posted by chris24 at 4:31 AM on February 15, 2017 [37 favorites]


I have a question. Why isn't Russia denying any of this? I mean, they're confirming they had contact with people from the campaign before the election. And they have actually been saying the same thing since November.

Why? Wouldn't it make more sense for them to deny it? Also their media loudly praising Trump, wouldn't it be better for them to put a lid on that once he won? And this thing where they are expressing outrage over Flynn's ouster (saying that it shows the new administration has succumbed to Russiphobia after all)... I mean, why not play it cool? "Flynn? That dude. Barely know him. Why?"

Instead they are acting like jilted lovers. I don't get it.

(To be clear I think Putin absolutely did help Donald Trump get elected and that he has been Putin's puppet throughout the campaign, I just want to understand Russia's reaction to these developments.)
posted by OnceUponATime at 4:44 AM on February 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


Here's hopefully a hint of things to come. Last night, Rs won the MN House seat 32B special election 53-47, which doesn't sound great until you realize that Trump won it by 29 points. In three months Rs lost 23 points.

Its more complicated than that; Trump greatly overperformed previous Republican candidates in MN32B (which means that district is bluer than his performance indicates) but greatly underperformed in GA-6. Hell, the Republicans only won MN32B by 2 points in 2012, and won it by 6 points this week. The evidence for an anti-Trump backlash there is mixed at best.
posted by Justinian at 4:44 AM on February 15, 2017 [10 favorites]


The worst period of decline in manufacturing employment and real income for those with only a HS degree occurred under GW Bush.

Overall, sure. But in some industries and some areas of the country the worst declines came post-NAFTA--the textile industry in the South and parts of New England being the most prominent example, with almost a million jobs lost from 1994-2005; most of that was due to the shifting of production to Mexico, China and elsewhere. Driving through Southern mill towns (places within an hour's drive of Atlanta) in the mid-'90's where the major employer had just closed, I didn't really see a lot of evidence of the supposedly booming economy. Job losses in auto manufacturing, steel, etc occurred earlier, yes, and a lot of those were as much due to automation as outsourcing/offshoring, but that's hardly the whole picture.
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 4:48 AM on February 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


Lord Dampnut is on a multi-tweet rant about it all this morning, but this one is particularly rich. Maybe Russia isn't the best comparison for you to use right now.

@realDonaldTrump
Information is being illegally given to the failing @nytimes & @washingtonpost by the intelligence community (NSA and FBI?).Just like Russia
posted by chris24 at 4:49 AM on February 15, 2017 [6 favorites]


Democrats won a string of special elections in early 2009, before being utterly decimated in the 2010 Tea Party takeover.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:51 AM on February 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


he forgot FAKE NEWS
posted by thelonius at 4:51 AM on February 15, 2017


he forgot FAKE NEWS

No, he tweeted that earlier.
posted by waitingtoderail at 4:53 AM on February 15, 2017 [5 favorites]



Trump has been tweeting a lot this past hour. Posting them all so it's easier to see where his head is at.

Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump 9m9 minutes ago
Crimea was TAKEN by Russia during the Obama Administration. Was Obama too soft on Russia?

Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump 23m23 minutes ago
Thank you to Eli Lake of The Bloomberg View - "The NSA & FBI...should not interfere in our politics...and is" Very serious situation for USA

Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump 32m32 minutes ago
Information is being illegally given to the failing @nytimes & @washingtonpost by the intelligence community (NSA and FBI?).Just like Russia

Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump 43m43 minutes ago
This Russian connection non-sense is merely an attempt to cover-up the many mistakes made in Hillary Clinton's losing campaign.

Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump 1h1 hour ago

The fake news media is going crazy with their conspiracy theories and blind hatred. @MSNBC & @CNN are unwatchable. @foxandfriends is great!

posted by Jalliah at 4:53 AM on February 15, 2017 [12 favorites]


he forgot FAKE NEWS

Oh he hit that in an earlier tweet. It's a greatest hits morning. Fake news, this is just an excuse for Hillary's losing campaign, etc., etc.
posted by chris24 at 4:53 AM on February 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


Bob Corker, being interviewed on MSNBC on Morning Coffee Joe, literally just said "We need to not have any suspicion" as to connections between the administration and Russia.
posted by XMLicious at 4:55 AM on February 15, 2017


Is his position that these are conspiracy theories and fake news or is his position that these are damaging illegal leaks from intelligence agencies? MAKE UP YOUR GODDAMN MIND.
posted by Justinian at 4:55 AM on February 15, 2017 [17 favorites]


@realDonaldTrump
Information is being illegally given to the failing @nytimes & @washingtonpost by the intelligence community (NSA and FBI?).Just like Russia
David G. McAfee ‏@DavidGMcAfee 34m34 minutes ago
Wait @realDonaldTrump, you said @nytimes was FAKE NEWS! If they are being fed information, that means it's a real leak. Right? I'm confused.

David G. McAfee ‏@DavidGMcAfee 32m32 minutes ago
Can you please make up your mind, @realDonaldTrump? Are these all FAKE baseless conspiracy theories or does your admin have massive leaks?
Eh heh. In fairness to Donald, his comparison is surprisingly accurate. It's quite possible that Flynn illegally gave information to Russia whilst having been at least a quasi-member of the IC again.
posted by jaduncan at 4:56 AM on February 15, 2017 [7 favorites]


Imagine the US was a publicly traded stock you were considering investing in, and the CEO rattled off a series of tweets as crazy as those published by President Trump this morning.

Probably gonna wait for the Board of Directors to find a new CEO before investing, no?
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 4:56 AM on February 15, 2017 [28 favorites]


Huh, I guess David G. McAfee and I had the same reaction.
posted by Justinian at 4:57 AM on February 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


Bob Corker, being interviewed on MSNBC on Morning Coffee Joe, literally just said "We need to not have any suspicion" as to connections between the administration and Russia.

Bleary eyed, half a coffee me is having trouble understanding what he was saying.
posted by Jalliah at 4:57 AM on February 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


If Flynn was so sure he was doing the right thing, why lie about it?

The only people we know he lied to (or omitted, or "misled," or the weasel word of your choice) are the FBI. We have only the administration's word that he lied to Pence and only Pence's word that he didn't know the facts when he went on TV.

So it may be Pence who's too dumb to realize conversations with foreign entities are recorded.
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:58 AM on February 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


Above and beyond the obvious, that tweetstorm makes me sad and wistful for the days when presidents, even at their worst, were expected to be presidential. How have we fallen so far, so fast? That is a terrifyingly unhinged sequence of (at least semi-official) communications.
posted by uncleozzy at 4:59 AM on February 15, 2017 [27 favorites]


Trump's Cat: The cat in the box is both A RUSSIAN ASSET and NOT A RUSSIAN ASSET.
posted by valkane at 4:59 AM on February 15, 2017 [21 favorites]


Imagine the US was a publicly traded stock you were considering investing in, and the CEO rattled off a series of tweets as crazy as those published by President Trump this morning.

I dunno....his vision of the company as a "dismal shantytown in a ravine" seems compelling.....
posted by thelonius at 4:59 AM on February 15, 2017 [11 favorites]


In other words, it could be:

Flynn talks to ambassador as instructed.
Pence knows.
It becomes politically controversial.
Pence lies on TV.
Flynn then lies to the FBI to be a good soldier and cover for Pence, even though he knows he'll be caught.
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:00 AM on February 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


Donald J. Trump
Crimea was TAKEN by Russia during the Obama Administration. Was Obama too soft on Russia?



FYI, if it wasn't clear from his earlier tweet mentioned Fox & Friends, Lord Dampnut is watching his shows again. Fox & Friends talked about Obama and Crimea right before this tweet.
posted by chris24 at 5:00 AM on February 15, 2017 [9 favorites]


Trump to greet Netanyahu by abandoning '2-state' doctrine:On Tuesday night, White House officials briefing reporters said that Trump wouldn’t seek to impose a two-state solution for the Israel-Palestinian conflict — a break with a decades-long American posture.

“Maybe, maybe not,” one official said of the two-state solution. "It's something the two sides have to agree to. It's not for us to impose that vision. But I think we'll find out more about that tomorrow."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:01 AM on February 15, 2017 [1 favorite]




Does that shilling for Fox & Friends rise to the level of Kellyanne shilling for Ivanka's brand?

For some reason I doubt it, because vagina.
posted by mikelieman at 5:04 AM on February 15, 2017 [5 favorites]



FYI, if it wasn't clear from his earlier tweet mentioned Fox & Friends, Lord Dampnut is watching his shows again. Fox & Friends talked about Obama and Crimea right before this tweet.


Don't suppose anyone here saw it and knows whether they suggested that Trump get tough on Russia now and do something about Crimea?
posted by Jalliah at 5:05 AM on February 15, 2017


Pence knows.
It becomes politically controversial.
Pence lies on TV.


Hypothetically, let's pretend this takes Pence down (it won't). We know the GOP congress will rubber-stamp anybody Trump appoints. Bannon takes a promotion/demotion to VP, doesn't he.
posted by uncleozzy at 5:06 AM on February 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


Fox News reporter, Pentagon beat: Russian spy ship now located 30 miles south of Groton, CT home to a US Navy submarine base. Russian ship "loitering," US official

CNN: Russia testing Trump with spy ship, missile
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:06 AM on February 15, 2017 [10 favorites]


Can you imagine going back in time to tell the Birchers one of their guys would win the presidency, but he was in collusion with Russia?
posted by drezdn at 5:07 AM on February 15, 2017 [50 favorites]


Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump 32m32 minutes ago
Information is being illegally given to the failing @nytimes & @washingtonpost by the intelligence community (NSA and FBI?).Just like Russia


So he's going to war against the NSA and the FBI? I can't see that ending well for him.
posted by octothorpe at 5:07 AM on February 15, 2017 [6 favorites]


From the tweets: "[...] the failing @nytimes [...]", "[...] Hillary's losing campaign [...]"
Is it just me, or is his constant need call his opponents pejoratives incredibly grating? It's like those people on computer forums that still use "Micro$oft" unironically - so very childish and primitive.

He has his finger on a nuclear launch button, and he hurls insults that are one step away from calling someone a "doody-head".
posted by PontifexPrimus at 5:07 AM on February 15, 2017 [21 favorites]


I'd like to think that, outside the 27%, people are noticing that calling other people liars is his only move, and that it's pretty well unlikely that everything bad reported about him is made up. While we're at it, they could recall that winning a Presidential election does not mean that any subsequent disagreements are automatically resolved in your favor.
posted by thelonius at 5:10 AM on February 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


With Michael Flynn Gone, Russia Sees a Different Trump
“There is a cautious feeling about how Trump and his advisers designated the possible ways of improving relations with Russia,” said Vladimir Frolov, an international affairs analyst. “This has frightened the Kremlin because it does not correspond to Russia’s interests.”

Putin may be finding out what was obvious here the whole time, Trump is insane. There's no plan, and he'll change his mind every day if not hour.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:11 AM on February 15, 2017 [17 favorites]


Trump to greet Netanyahu by abandoning '2-state' doctrine

Which isn't really a viable option? If Israel is to maintain its character as both a Jewish and democratic state then the two-state solution is the only thing that works in terms of demographics (unless they're planning on going full apartheid, or sudden US support for a one-state solution is more "okay, maybe this will force you to negotiate" rather than a serious position).
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 5:11 AM on February 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


So he's going to war against the NSA and the FBI? I can't see that ending well for him.

He's been at war with them ever since he called them Nazi's. Or at least that's when it heated up. He either just didn't realize it, thought his telling them he loved them worked to end it, or figured that he would be able to handle them because he is smarter then they are.
posted by Jalliah at 5:12 AM on February 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


But in some industries and some areas of the country the worst declines came post-NAFTA--

All of the worst losses came post-NAFTA, in fact. that, however, does not mean NAFTA caused them. Globalization caused them. All presidents since Reagan have supported global free trade. But the fact remains that the presidencies that have produced the most growth both in service sector and manufacturing sector employment, assuming we credit presidencies with their contemporaneous economic effects, were those of Clinton and Obama.

Interrupted by a multi-trillion dollar war.

I know it's more complicated but it certainly doesn't boil down to Clinton causing job loss with NAFTA. Fully 12 years of sharp declines in industrial employment and real working-class income occurred under Reagan and Bush I, before NAFTA. Those losses were offset by real growth in new sectors and in income during Clinton I for all workers, albeit less so in the regions and sectors you mentioned (debatable, as the new economy hugely benefited the working classes in New England, at least, in the 1990s, and a lot of new manufacturing, especially automotive, went into the south to avoid unions, in those same years too).

Declines in resource extraction and agricultural employment mattered significantly for the south too.

But I just want to avoid the Republican fiction that Clinton I was bad for American employment and growth in a unique way., let alone Obama. The top line numbers show us both presidencies were eras of strong growth in employment and modest growth in real income across the board, but offset by actual transformation of the economy. You had to go to school or move or start a business to benefit. The "lifelong" job faded away. But the economy grew and that was the argument for globalization of trade, and it was correct in aggregate terms.

The forces involved here were unleashed in the late 1970s and 1980s. Democrats have led relatively successful efforts to adjust to them in ways that would benefit workers relative to republicans over two entire generations now.

What people experienced and how they explain it politically turns into a simple narrative if we lay this all on NAFTA. It's just wrong in the aggregate, whatever its sectoral and regional effects.
posted by spitbull at 5:12 AM on February 15, 2017 [27 favorites]


So Russia is buzzing American military installations now that everyone knows they interfered with the US elections.

This is fine.
posted by Yowser at 5:13 AM on February 15, 2017 [22 favorites]



Someone on a show must have said this:
Donald's latest tweet:
The real scandal here is that classified information is illegally given out by "intelligence" like candy. Very un-American!
posted by Jalliah at 5:14 AM on February 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


So he's going to war against the NSA and the FBI? I can't see that ending well for him.

Depends on whether you think Russia or the USA will win the war, I guess.
posted by UbuRoivas at 5:15 AM on February 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


Ahhhhhhhh! The tweets! The tweets! They keep coming! Make it stop!
posted by dis_integration at 5:15 AM on February 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


I haven't really followed a Metafilter political thread like this since Black Tuesday back in November, so this is kinda nice. Thanks, folks.

My one observation: The whole correlation between his tweets and whatever is being discussed on Fox News at the same time makes me envision him as a doddering old grandma wanting to duck out of meetings saying, "Can we wrap this up? My shows are on now!"

That's a nicer comparison than he deserves, but I'm trying to watch my blood pressure lately.
posted by AlonzoMosleyFBI at 5:17 AM on February 15, 2017 [33 favorites]


Don't ask me why but I've got Mourning Joe And Mika Whome?ski on and they appear to be engaged in a snippy back and forth with the shitgibbon's twitter feed. Their line appears to be "stop being so incompetent at evil corruption and you'll be fine."
posted by spitbull at 5:18 AM on February 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


Also, I love that one of the things that The Donald is most upset about is that CNN has become "unwatchable". Just let him have his shows back!
posted by dis_integration at 5:18 AM on February 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


My one observation: The whole correlation between his tweets and whatever is being discussed on Fox News at the same time makes me envision him as a doddering old grandma wanting to duck out of meetings saying, "Can we wrap this up? My shows are on now!"

You'll be excited to know that he allegedly refuses to go into meetings until after the morning shows.
posted by jaduncan at 5:18 AM on February 15, 2017 [34 favorites]


I've taken to calling The Spicey Show "my stories."

"It's noon -- I need to go home for lunch and watch my stories now."
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:19 AM on February 15, 2017 [43 favorites]


@WaysMeansCmte
By a vote of 23-15, Republicans just voted to not request President Trump's tax returns from the Treasury Department.


@KevinMKruse Retweeted Ways and Means Dems
Politicians: When historians teach Watergate, we often use committee votes like this to single out the party hacks.
posted by chris24 at 5:19 AM on February 15, 2017 [62 favorites]


I'll say it again, Republicans literally elected a crazy old man yelling at his TV.
posted by chris24 at 5:20 AM on February 15, 2017 [79 favorites]


You'll be excited to know that he allegedly refuses to go into meetings until after the morning shows.

Ready at 3am, unavailable at 8am.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:20 AM on February 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


You'll be excited to know that he allegedly refuses to go into meetings until after the morning shows.

Sometimes I write these sentences and I feel like a bad comedy writer working on Idiocracy 2.
posted by jaduncan at 5:20 AM on February 15, 2017 [23 favorites]


So he's going to war against the NSA and the FBI? I can't see that ending well for him.

From where I sit, the war is over and President Shitgibbon lost. They've shut the White House out of anything that the Russian Spies working there can leak, and people who are a clear and present danger to the security of the United States are being taken off the board.

Career Civil Servants FTW!
posted by mikelieman at 5:21 AM on February 15, 2017 [7 favorites]


On the bright side, the first 1/70th of his presidency has now passed.

Only 69/70 to go.
posted by UbuRoivas at 5:21 AM on February 15, 2017 [12 favorites]


Nice!
posted by drezdn at 5:22 AM on February 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


He has his finger on a nuclear launch button, and he hurls insults that are one step away from calling someone a "doody-head".

Do you *really* think Rick is going to give him the football?
posted by mikelieman at 5:22 AM on February 15, 2017 [3 favorites]



Someone on a show must have said this:
Donald's latest tweet:
The real scandal here is that classified information is illegally given out by "intelligence" like candy. Very un-American!


I love how he just keeps confirming that the info being leaked is real and not faked.

His level of stupid still astounds me. Here investigators and political foes have some evidence and leverage.

He did the same thing around the immigration ban. His tweets are being used as part of the evidence of the intent that yes it is a ban and yes it's a Muslim ban.
posted by Jalliah at 5:22 AM on February 15, 2017 [46 favorites]


@KevinMKruse Retweeted Ways and Means Dems
Politicians: When historians teach Watergate, we often use committee votes like this to single out the party hacks.


I'm guessing that the Chaffetz "It's taking care of itself" Flynn quote is going to be replayed so much the pixels wear out and break. He must've taken one look at the NYT story and said, "Oh fuck me."
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:24 AM on February 15, 2017 [11 favorites]




There is no way this goes on even another week, is there? I'm not sure I can take this Administration's time dilation policy.
posted by adamgreenfield at 5:30 AM on February 15, 2017 [18 favorites]


How long can the intelligence community keep leaking until the Trump administration compels it to stop?

Like any political body, it will work to keep itself funded and existing. The media reported on a comments made by Trump which were taken by Congressman Schumer as a threat to the existence of various IC elements. Threatening enough for Congressperson Schumer to make a comment about how the CIA had six different routes on a Sunday to obtain retaliation.

If your job is at stake are you gonna listen to the man who's working to destroy your vocation? Or will you pick a different option if you think you'd have political cover if your efforts to take down the boss fails?
posted by rough ashlar at 5:30 AM on February 15, 2017


It looks like my popcorn investment is starting to pay off.
posted by drezdn at 5:30 AM on February 15, 2017 [9 favorites]


Watching Trump do politics is like watching someone who thinks they're Machiavelli do a Dunning-Kruger version of Machiavelli.
posted by Jalliah at 5:31 AM on February 15, 2017 [31 favorites]


The real scandal here is that classified information is illegally given out by "intelligence" like candy. Very un-American!

Yes! It's almost as problematic as if, say, someone had conducted sensitive national-security discussions en plein air, in front of a completely unfiltered audience.
posted by adamgreenfield at 5:32 AM on February 15, 2017 [37 favorites]


Do you *really* think Rick is going to give him the football?

Rick just posed with football to be explicitly doxxed on someone's FB feed. He owes me at least one even.
posted by jaduncan at 5:33 AM on February 15, 2017 [9 favorites]


a completely unfiltered audience

No, they're rich people. They're better than you. It's fine, this is fine.
posted by uncleozzy at 5:33 AM on February 15, 2017 [7 favorites]


Watching Trump do politics is like watching someone who thinks they're Machiavelli doing a Dunning-Kruger version of Machiavelli.

Per a Facebook meme (and verily, it is a profound index of how far we've fallen that I am even typing those words):

TRUMP
A poor man's idea of a rich man
A stupid man's idea of a smart man
A weak man's idea of a strong man
posted by adamgreenfield at 5:34 AM on February 15, 2017 [108 favorites]


CNN: Sean Spicer isn't finished: "[Regarding the Spicer is finished narrative], five of these sources think the person behind the leaks is Kellyanne Conway, Trump's ever-visible White House counselor. Though they offer no hard evidence, they say Conway is trying to offload blame for administration setbacks on Spicer to prove she is the more effective public advocate and earn a lasting place in the President's inner circle."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:38 AM on February 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


Wow, Ryan's on MSNBC going all in on backing up Trump.
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:39 AM on February 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


I'm not sure why, if it's Flynn's blood in my mouth or what, but it feels like things are crumbling down. Probably I'm sensing the limits of my sanity more than anything else.
posted by angrycat at 5:41 AM on February 15, 2017 [10 favorites]


Surely, this.
posted by tobascodagama at 5:42 AM on February 15, 2017 [16 favorites]


do a Dunning-Kruger version of Machiavelli

I was lucky enough, many years ago, to take a course on philosophical ethics with Harvey Mansfield, one of the most odiously right wing and grotesquely sexist of the major, serious, widely read philosophers of his generation -- and a truly repugnant human being, but a brilliant scholar and thus quite dangerous and interesting as an adversary. He is famous for his philosophical defense of Machiavellian ethics. We read The Prince and his work thereon. I think Harvey saw himself as a reincarnation of the dude. I still have nightmares.


All this to say, Mr. Trump, I knew Machiavelli by proxy. Machiavelli by proxy was an enemy of mine. And you're no Machiavelli by proxy.

(Just in case Prof. Mansfield, who infamously hates grade inflation to the point that in my day he was known as "C Minus Mansfield," googles his name and finds this, Hi Prof! Thanks for the A in 1984, and for the excellent training for chairing my department 30 years later. Sometimes you can learn from a brilliant asshole.)

posted by spitbull at 5:43 AM on February 15, 2017 [70 favorites]



As part of my Bannonland quest a copy of the Art of War arrived in the mail yesterday. It's on the list of books he loves and lives by. I have read it before but it was ages ago. Been skimming through it this morning and in the light of current events it's reading more like a comedy. I keep reading lines and giggling "Oh oops now that's not working for you is it?" "Ha ha failed executing that tactic, didn't you" "Oh look, looks like the IC and media knows what's in this book too, fancy that, who woulda thunk".
posted by Jalliah at 5:43 AM on February 15, 2017 [10 favorites]


Let's not forget the crook might get away with it. He's had 50 years of grifting, Nixon could never compete.
posted by Yowser at 5:43 AM on February 15, 2017 [6 favorites]


> Sometimes I write these sentences and I feel like a bad comedy writer working on Idiocracy 2.

Not a sequel, a new series. The pilot has aired and as the first reviews are in. Most don't like it, no sirree, but there's a hardcore fan base who will be all kinds of pissed if the show doesn't make it to the end of the four-year contract.

[stop the world, I want to get off]
posted by Enturbulated at 5:44 AM on February 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


Is it just me, or is his constant need call his opponents pejoratives incredibly grating?

It also points up the obvious, which he doesn't grasp just yet: he's going to be brought down by a bunch of losers and failures, which for him will be the ultimate humiliation.
posted by Rykey at 5:45 AM on February 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


Can someone explain why Ryan is backing Trump? Wouldn't he rather have Pence? Or himself?
posted by nat at 5:45 AM on February 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


Why would Pence pick Ryan as VP? Unless you think Pence will go down before trump?
posted by Yowser at 5:47 AM on February 15, 2017


I think Ryan knows that Trump is going down without any need for him to get involved. And this way, he doesn't become Trump's target in the meantime.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:47 AM on February 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


Let's not forget the crook might get away with it. He's had 50 years of grifting, Nixon could never compete.

He totally could. Things are bad for him now and the forecast looks worse but he could get away with it. So much depends on what other elected officials do now.

Looks like we know where Ryan stands on it. He's all in, like flynn.
posted by Jalliah at 5:48 AM on February 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


Can someone explain why Ryan is backing Trump? Wouldn't he rather have Pence? Or himself?

At a guess: He doesn't have a big majority, and needs to keep people in line. A rejection of Trump is likely to have massive implications for the midterms, and moderate Rs might actually start to demand a move to the centre. Ryan has a chance to finally gut social security and pass something at least similar to the Ryan budget previously rejected. Why throw all that away just because Trump has little dalliance with/might be compromised by Russia?

If he can ride the bull, he can get the policies nobody else would be prepared to pass. He's already sold his soul to Bannon, so he's tied to it all now, and it's best that it collapses later after the policies are passed than before. He needs what, six months?
posted by jaduncan at 5:49 AM on February 15, 2017 [20 favorites]


He may well need six months. Call me an optimist, but I don't honestly think he has six weeks.
posted by adamgreenfield at 5:53 AM on February 15, 2017 [9 favorites]


This is also why it's absolutely crucial that Senate and House Democrats are heavily pressured to resist. It might well end unexpectedly early, so get nasty on the procedural level and run the clock.
posted by jaduncan at 5:53 AM on February 15, 2017 [10 favorites]


You're an optimist, adamgreenfield.

But, yeah, that's why Ryan is all-in. They need Trump at the helm while they gut Obamacare and as many entitlement and social spending programs as possible while delivering tax cuts to the wealthy. Then if everything collapses they can turn on Trump and blame him for it all.
posted by Justinian at 5:55 AM on February 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


The Rubber Bandits, ‘Donald in the Distance’.
posted by Bloxworth Snout at 5:56 AM on February 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


Then if everything collapses they can turn on Trump and blame him for it all.

"if"
posted by uncleozzy at 5:59 AM on February 15, 2017 [8 favorites]


Alternative hypothesis: Paul Ryan isn't actually very smart and has no clue what he's doing, and his going all-in on Trump is just an expression of post-purchase rationalization rather than strategic thinking.
posted by biogeo at 6:01 AM on February 15, 2017 [69 favorites]


At some point Ryan, et al. are going to have to stop backing Trump early enough to distance themselves, won't they? Maybe not, I guess, as long as they aren't implicated in any wrong-doing, they may assume they can float free right up until the ship goes down. They may or may not be right, but I can see thinking that.
posted by He Is Only The Imposter at 6:01 AM on February 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


@jamisonfoser:
House Republicans investigated Socks the Cat & WH holiday card list when Clinton was president but they’re cool with a Russia’d-up Trump WH.
posted by chris24 at 6:05 AM on February 15, 2017 [91 favorites]


soren, I wish I had a bumper big enough to put this on a sticker.

Don't look at my voting record and think I don't know what I'm doing and that I don't understand some shit. I understand, I just disagree on some key tactical points. And a lot of my disagreement comes from knowing that, as a woman, when shit goes down, it'll go down on me harder and faster. You say you want a revolution, etc... So, yeah, a little less smug coming from that corner would be appreciated. I'd like to work together on this, but I'd also like to be respected as not an idiot, so.
posted by winna at 6:06 AM on February 15, 2017 [13 favorites]


Alternative hypothesis: Paul Ryan isn't actually very smart and has no clue what he's doing, and his going all-in on Trump is just an expression of post-purchase rationalization rather than strategic thinking.

It depends if you think that Trump is going to have so clearly failed that it's going to affect the next few cycles. If it affects them enough, it's going to lose the 2020 redistricting for them. Even if Democratic politicians redistrict fairly, they are well and truly screwed on the basis of that and demographic changes.

I'm therefore unsurprised that they are all in on both defending Trump and, to make an exclusive prediction, that if he survives or not they will be in on vote and immigration suppression very hard indeed. It's not smart, it's just the only option that doesn't end terribly.*

*for them, clearly it's going to be moderately horrific for everyone else and particuarly PoC/LGBT+/Muslims/my-word-this-is-a-depressing-list-to-write. It's just that their bridges back are burning increasingly merrily.

posted by jaduncan at 6:08 AM on February 15, 2017


Remember Ryan needs to keep the house republicans together. If he backs away from trump he's got some real nasty bastards gunning for him from his right too.

Schadenfreude is cold comfort though.
posted by spitbull at 6:10 AM on February 15, 2017 [8 favorites]


I'm wondering if Ryan is trying for the most people don't pay close enough attention to the news to know that my future insistence that I too was kept in the dark and an also an innocent victim in all this is a giant lie gambit.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:14 AM on February 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


Some blah blah type on MSNBC:
"This has a feeling/
of unraveling to it."

Accidental poetry.
posted by spitbull at 6:14 AM on February 15, 2017 [8 favorites]


>> Sometimes I write these sentences and I feel like a bad comedy writer working on Idiocracy 2.

>Not a sequel, a new series


A gritty reboot, surely?
posted by entropicamericana at 6:15 AM on February 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


even with pointless
enjambment
posted by thelonius at 6:15 AM on February 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


So you really believe Paul "who me, starve grannies?" Ryan is incapable of disingenuous projection of earnest naivete and the best of intentions?

It's his signature move.
posted by spitbull at 6:17 AM on February 15, 2017 [9 favorites]


Here's what I think:

If Trump goes, Bannon goes and so do all these clowns. "We got rid of Trump but now Bannon is advising Pence" is going to piss off everyone on all sides.

Ryan et al are going to find it a lot harder than they think to get rid of Obamacare, Social Security, Medicaid and Medicare. Even getting rid of Obamacare is politically harder than they expected and may not be, per se, possible; the idea that they're going to then waltz in and voucherize Medicare seems extremely unlikely.

I think that big, obvious, high-profile changes that are visible on the TV news and impact many Americans are the hardest things to pull off. Small, garbage changes that make life worse in many areas for many people are the easiest. That's where I expect the big wins for them, and those are the kinds of things that are going to happen even if Trump has started circling the drain.

There's a bill in the House, for instance, that is similar to what was passed in Canada under Harper - NSF awards have to show that they are marketable and important to national security, etc. That's going to pass, because most Americans don't really know what the NSF does or why it's important, and they don't understand how the language in the bill will be used to smash as much research as possible. It's going to be hard to implement and if we can retake the House, etc at the midterms it may be a dead letter, but it's a shitty, hostile bill that relies on popular ignorance to do something that people would not support if they understood.
posted by Frowner at 6:18 AM on February 15, 2017 [49 favorites]


It's as if he thinks that if he keeps mashing his infant fingers against the phone people will just naturally believe him because he's so sure that people (the ones who count) actually really do think he's a stand up guy.
posted by h00py at 6:18 AM on February 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


The Republican coalition depends on the Trumpist faction. They can't win elections without them. If you look at the PPP crosstabs from 5 days ago, 91% of Trump voters approve of the job he's doing and have a favorable view of him. Ryan has a savior complex and thinks that he is the only one who can usher in prosperity with his granny-starving agenda. He obtains and keeps power by catering to the Trumpist wing of the party (i.e. the majority of Republicans). He will never do anything that puts him at risk of losing power.

And it's not just Ryan, it's the entire Republican base. Republican politicians are doing what Republican voters overwhelmingly want.

We have to remember that Republican voters are not the majority of voters and are certainly not the majority of Americans nor the majority of U.S. residents.
posted by melissasaurus at 6:19 AM on February 15, 2017 [47 favorites]


Absolutely the narrative we should be pushing is "the Republicans are a minority party who are out of line with the country". It has the twin advantages of being extremely mobilizing and true.
posted by Frowner at 6:21 AM on February 15, 2017 [76 favorites]


Also, I bet at least some Trump voters will snap. I'm sure they're all "our boy Trump he is so great" right now not least as a performative gesture - who wants to admit that they voted for a clown who can't even keep it together for a month?
posted by Frowner at 6:25 AM on February 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


In case you're wondering what Harper did to science in Canada, he incentivized so-called Applied Research departments that do no real science and benefit nobody except corporations. It's obscene.
posted by Yowser at 6:25 AM on February 15, 2017 [7 favorites]


(Metafilter: Sometimes you can learn from a brilliant asshole.)
posted by wenestvedt at 6:26 AM on February 15, 2017 [23 favorites]


I have a question. Why isn't Russia denying any of this?

Why should they?

It is not beyond the realm of possibility that not only were the Russians in the systems but so were other nations if not the one lone person looking for proof of aliens from other worlds. Heck - do you trust that some part of the US intelligence community would not have their own copies of data taken right from the servers themselves contrary to law? Do you trust the email hosting providers to not have copies someplace?

Some of the leaked documents are claimed to be from a Democratic insider if I remember the Assange camp claims correctly.

If the government policy was to break in and keep the documents and someone who was part of the hacking team opted to leak the documents - how would the readers of The Blue know or get to know that?

The actual reality may be the Russians (as the government) kept what they had and not leak 'em. So why admit to the break in if they are not the ones who leaked it?
posted by rough ashlar at 6:30 AM on February 15, 2017


There was a discussion here last night that sadly veered too close to RLTP, but I want to try to revive it on neutral ground because I think it's important. So I'm gonna bring up the Iraq War (Gulf War II).

In the run-up to the Iraq War, there were a LOT of people, more than history now remembers, who said that the Bush administration's case for WMDs was flimsy, maybe even fabricated. They said that the UN inspections were working and that there was no reason to think that Saddam Hussein was successfully hiding anything from them. Many also said that the Bush administration didn't have a clear plan for post-invasion governance of Iraq and that invading to impose regime change would only destabilise the region and create a power vacuum that would end up filled by extremist terrorist groups.

Well, at the time, most mainstream pundits thought those people were wrong. Not just wrong but misguided, emotional, lying for political reasons, take your pick.

We all know how that turned out, right? We know that the pundits were the ones who got everything wrong and the Iraq War critics got everything right.

But what was the actual result of this? Were all the pundits fired and replaced with the critics who got everything right? No, of course not. The pundits kept on punditing and came up with a bunch of horseshit about how the critics were "right for the wrong reasons".

All I'm saying is that I don't want to see that happen again with the Trump-Russia ties. Pay attention to who called this story correctly from the beginning. Pay more attention to who was dismissing the people who called this story from the beginning. Embrace the former, kick the latter out on their counterproductive asses.
posted by tobascodagama at 6:31 AM on February 15, 2017 [84 favorites]


Pointless enjambment

Well, the guy I was quoting did seem to pause to find the consequent phrase for the "feeling" he was evoking, and therein, for me, lay the sort of Jakobsonian boundary between poetry and prose. The effect was as much oral as syntactic, albeit the enjambment I deployed (in contrast to your example of two words) also orthographically marked two complete verb phrases, as antecedent and consequent clauses whose juxtaposition of the words "feeling" and "unraveling" evoked a paradigmatic projection of both semantic (gerundive, with an interesting submerged metaphoric contrast of inner state and observable action, as if the mind could "unravel" like yarn) and phonological parallelism, with those luscious liquid /l/'s.

Which is to say, my orthographic choice was not so "pointless" except in the sense that all written representations of oral discourse are pointless. For me, the pause made the poetry.
; ) linguists gotta nerd out

posted by spitbull at 6:33 AM on February 15, 2017 [10 favorites]


So you really believe Paul "who me, starve grannies?" Ryan is incapable of disingenuous projection of earnest naivete and the best of intentions?

Oh, no, I think that's entirely possible too. I'm just saying that with this crowd, idiocy and evil are indistinguishable. Maybe Ryan is pursuing a strategy, or maybe he's just stupid. Going all-in on Trump could be either, or even both. I have no clue.
posted by biogeo at 6:33 AM on February 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


it's a fine line between clever and stupid
posted by murphy slaw at 6:35 AM on February 15, 2017 [12 favorites]


(Obviously, if anyone was wrong about Trump-Russia but apologises and corrects themselves, they're a keeper as well. But the discussion I referred to was about people who are doubling down rather than self-correcting.)
posted by tobascodagama at 6:35 AM on February 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


It's as if he thinks that if he keeps mashing his infant fingers against the phone people will just naturally believe him because he's so sure that people (the ones who count) actually really do think he's a stand up guy.

My brother-in-law is absolutely convinced that HRC and Pizzagate are behind all of this. His diehards are not going to be swayed by anything. If this all comes apart, it will be Obama and HRC's fault, to them.
posted by archimago at 6:36 AM on February 15, 2017 [6 favorites]


Can you imagine going back in time to tell the Birchers one of their guys would win the presidency, but he was in collusion with Russia?

Why go BACK in time? Visit the home state of Prebius and Ryan in Appleton WI and ask a Brich HQ?

I bet someone could croudsource a billbord or 2 near the HQ or where the head of the Birchers are, take pics and make it go viral.
posted by rough ashlar at 6:36 AM on February 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


Maybe Ryan is pursuing a strategy, or maybe he's just stupid.

Schroedinger's Granny's Starver, as it were.
posted by spitbull at 6:37 AM on February 15, 2017 [10 favorites]


"He was proved instinctively correct" oooof- is this the theme that Trump wants hammered home? That he doesn't need facts first because he is always right? This is a dangerous way to brand.

Would like to go back to this comment way upthread because the "instinctive" repetition in Spicer's presser was so bizarre. quotes:
- he instinctively thought that General Flynn did not do anything wrong, and the White House Counsel’s review corroborated that.
- concluded very conclusively, as he had first come to -- instinctively come to the conclusion that there was nothing wrong.
- He was proved instinctively correct.
- And he immediately asked the White House Counsel to further confirm what his instincts were at the time.


I mean that was clearly a talking point he went out there to hammer on. My interpretation is that this is a (very thin and VERY clumsily applied) fig leaf to cover for when Trump has to admit he knew the content of Flynn's calls back in December. To cover for the timeline awkwardness that at that point the WH's so-called legal review had not yet been carried out--but it was okay because Trump has excellent instincts.

I honestly can't see any other way to interpret it.

However this would mean Trump knew (and I fully believe he did) that Pence and others were repeating lies the whole time and let them hang.

In short, I think he's in deep shit.
posted by torticat at 6:38 AM on February 15, 2017 [12 favorites]


hm, haven't heard much about [Pam Bondi's] rumoured White House job since early January.

She's the Katherine Harris of this shitshow.
posted by Room 641-A at 6:38 AM on February 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


Also "a feeling of unraveling" deserves a German word.
posted by spitbull at 6:44 AM on February 15, 2017 [12 favorites]


From the Daily WTF:

US allies in Europe have no idea “what the fuck is going on” with the Trump Administration.

That's ok, no one in the US knows what the fuck is going on either, EU.
posted by INFJ at 6:45 AM on February 15, 2017 [18 favorites]



My brother-in-law is absolutely convinced that HRC and Pizzagate are behind all of this. His diehards are not going to be swayed by anything. If this all comes apart, it will be Obama and HRC's fault, to them.


In comments and tweets I've been seeing more references to Obama's shadow government that he has set up a few blocks from the WH. Also been seeing references to the law closing in because look at all the pedophile rings being busted. The arrest thing is true and has happened, they're just latching onto it as proof that it is only matter of time before all the Dems and Hillary get busted.
It's really warped but that's where some peoples heads are at right now.
posted by Jalliah at 6:46 AM on February 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


I'm not handing out cookies, just noting the latest news: [Raw Story] Mika Brzezinski bans Kellyanne Conway from MSNBC’s Morning Joe: ‘It’s not happening here’
posted by Room 641-A at 6:46 AM on February 15, 2017 [33 favorites]


"I have a question. Why isn't Russia denying any of this?"

Why should they?

It is not beyond the realm of possibility that not only were the Russians in the systems
...

By "any of this" I meant their contacts with the Trump campaign. Though it's true that their denials of involvement with the hacking were pretty half-hearted too. In that case I guess I assumed it was because the evidence was so clear, what was the point? Though that in turn raises the question of why they didn't cover their tracks better.

I also wonder why Trump was so blatant about his support for Russia during the campaign. Why not shut up about it and then quietly do what Putin wants after you get in office?

I wonder if some of this isn't a show for Russian domestic political reasons. To make Putin look powerful on the world stage. It's not enough to take over the US government... He has to be SEEN to take over the US government...
posted by OnceUponATime at 6:49 AM on February 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


However this would mean Trump knew (and I fully believe he did) that Pence and others were repeating lies the whole time and let them hang.

postscript:
ALSO it would mean the entire storyline of trust eroding was horseshit (which we already know), because Trump was complicit in the lies the whole time.

Would this be enough to bring him down?
posted by torticat at 6:50 AM on February 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


Also "a feeling of unraveling" deserves a German word.

"Auflösungserscheinungen", lit. "indications of dissolution / disintegration".
posted by PontifexPrimus at 6:51 AM on February 15, 2017 [49 favorites]


"Auflösungserscheinungen", lit. "indications of dissolution / disintegration".

Can we shorten it to "gettin' the Auflös"
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:53 AM on February 15, 2017 [23 favorites]



John McCain replied to Trump's tweet about Crimea and Obama being soft.

John McCain Retweeted Donald J. Trump
Yes, he was too soft - let's take a different course together: give defensive lethal assistance to #Ukraine & keep sanctions on #Russia
posted by Jalliah at 6:53 AM on February 15, 2017 [12 favorites]


I wonder if some of this isn't a show for Russian domestic political reasons. To make Putin look powerful on the world stage. It's not enough to take over the US government... He has to be SEEN to take over the US government...

It's the way they do everything. Their assasinations are all very not-very-plausibly-deniable: "oh, he seems to have died from a hard to get substance Russian spies frequently use? That's unfortunate *nudge* *nudge* *wink*"
posted by Artw at 6:56 AM on February 15, 2017 [7 favorites]


I also wonder why Trump was so blatant about his support for Russia during the campaign. Why not shut up about it and then quietly do what Putin wants after you get in office?

Equally why was he crowing on Twitter that Putin had caved, the day after the Dec 29 phones calls?

Because he's an egomaniacal blowhard who cannot resist bragging about his so-called victories. Because NO ONE has ever told him "Sit down, Donald, you fat motherfucker"

--until the courts and the media decided to step up the last couple weeks. GOD BLESS THEM.
posted by torticat at 7:01 AM on February 15, 2017 [6 favorites]


I also wonder why Trump was so blatant about his support for Russia during the campaign. Why not shut up about it and then quietly do what Putin wants after you get in office?

Because he genuinely does not understand how cultivated and compromised and managed he is. He still wakes up every morning and thinks that he won, despite everyone else being against him or half-assing their support.
posted by Etrigan at 7:04 AM on February 15, 2017 [23 favorites]


dunning-kruger is a helluva drug
posted by entropicamericana at 7:05 AM on February 15, 2017 [29 favorites]


This Russian connection non-sense is merely an attempt to cover-up the many mistakes made in Hillary Clinton's losing campaign.

But why would it be news, or would anyone care about it now if that were the case? You won, dude. I've never seen a sore winner before.
posted by INFJ at 7:06 AM on February 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


Highlights from CNN's Sean Spicer isn't finished story:
Three weeks after the inauguration, the only things adorning the White House press secretary's shelves are... a Super Soaker commemorating the infamous "Saturday Night Live" skit
Credit where it's due, Shouty Spice: that's the closest anyone in this administration has gotten to pulling off a healthy willingness to laugh at themself.
Steve Bannon, the president's chief strategist, told me during a recent interview in the Roosevelt Room. "The President has full and total confidence in Sean." Reince Priebus, Trump's chief of staff, told me the same: "The President has full confidence in Sean,"
Oh, good. People the President has "full confidence" in are safe. They definitely aren't asked to fall on their sword mere hours later.

This is going to be a running gag, isn't it? Some spokesman comes out, asserts that some-or-other administration member has the full confidence of the President, and then said administration member hams it up for the cameras like they're Billy Bones receiving the Black Spot.
posted by jackbishop at 7:06 AM on February 15, 2017 [7 favorites]


Credit where it's due, Shouty Spice: that's the closest anyone in this administration has gotten to pulling off a healthy willingness to laugh at themself.

Spicer got mad when it was suggested that anyone had given him a Super Soaker last week, and denied it, called it a lie.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:08 AM on February 15, 2017 [15 favorites]


kingless.... that Nemerov poem is gorgeous, and I didn't know it before, so thank you!
posted by spitbull at 7:08 AM on February 15, 2017 [10 favorites]


yeah, this is super interesting. One of the links from yesterday thought that Flynn was just the appetizer and that Conway was one of the next in line to get sacked. If the IA is behind the leaks, this is just the narrative they would advance if they wanted her to go. Seed distrust and watch the White House scramble. I'm not a fan of the IA but if that's what's going on, this is super satisfying.

five of these sources think the person behind the leaks is Kellyanne Conway, Trump's ever-visible White House counselor. Though they offer no hard evidence, they say Conway is trying to offload blame for administration setbacks on Spicer to prove she is the more effective public advocate and earn a lasting place in the President's inner circle."
posted by bluesky43 at 7:09 AM on February 15, 2017


Someone on CNN just pointed out Trump claimed it was OK to skip regular intel briefings because he got his info directly from Mike Flynn. - @eclecticbrotha
posted by murphy slaw at 7:09 AM on February 15, 2017 [80 favorites]


Obama isn't running a shadow government, he's on the beach not giving any shits.

Clinton is still in the woods, for all I know. Who can blame her really.
posted by emjaybee at 7:10 AM on February 15, 2017 [15 favorites]


Reince Priebus, Trump's chief of staff, told me the same: "The President has full confidence in Sean,"

Top. Men.
posted by Mayor West at 7:12 AM on February 15, 2017 [16 favorites]


The gist of that Breitbart article about the "Obama Shadow Government" is "OMG! THE BUREAUCRACY IS FULL OF SEKRIT OBAMA APPOINTEES!!1!" which is like, half correct. They're not secret, and they're still there because NO ONE REMEMBERED TO REPLACE THEM.
posted by murphy slaw at 7:12 AM on February 15, 2017 [33 favorites]


WaPo headline: Donald Trump’s White House is on the verge of a raging fire over Russia allegations

Don't give them any Reichstag ideas, guys.

(Bannon sneaks a wad of oily rags under the Resolute Desk)
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:13 AM on February 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


Obama isn't running a shadow government, he's on the beach not giving any shits.

Clinton is still in the woods, for all I know. Who can blame her really.


That's how shadowy it is! They're just laying down alibis!
posted by Etrigan at 7:13 AM on February 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


People the President has "full confidence" in are safe. They definitely aren't asked to fall on their sword mere hours later.

It's this administrations "Heckava job, Brownie!"
posted by nubs at 7:13 AM on February 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


Clinton is still in the woods, for all I know. Who can blame her really.

The Senate Oversight committee is due to receive the Datto email archive from the FBI right about now.

She should remain on the Appalachian trail and see if the travails of the Worst Wing kill the witch-hunt.
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:13 AM on February 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


Wait is Chaffetz going to do something?

Chaffetz launches probe into Trump administration's handling of info at Mar-a-lago
posted by emjaybee at 7:13 AM on February 15, 2017 [12 favorites]


i assume chaffetz is going to give trump a slap on the wrist about mar-a-lago security to distract from his claim that flynn's ouster has settled the russia issue.
posted by murphy slaw at 7:16 AM on February 15, 2017 [16 favorites]




Chaffetz is going to spend time on low-hanging fruit, and also book town halls in the reddest part of his district while accusing people who travel there from the bluer bits of being outside agitators.
posted by holgate at 7:17 AM on February 15, 2017 [3 favorites]



Obama isn't running a shadow government, he's on the beach not giving any shits.

Clinton is still in the woods, for all I know. Who can blame her really.


Yes he is, I read this on the internet. He has his own mansion and is fortifying it, right now! And Michelle is going to have and office there too. And the worst is that it's all funded by the tax payer.
posted by Jalliah at 7:18 AM on February 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


I'm not handing out cookies, just noting the latest news: [Raw Story] Mika Brzezinski bans Kellyanne Conway from MSNBC’s Morning Joe: ‘It’s not happening here’

I never thought I would admire Mika in any way (I hate Morning Joe with the fire of all of the stars) but my gods, this is a new world.

(also, much of my life is now reading these threads. so i guess thanks, everyone?)
posted by armacy at 7:18 AM on February 15, 2017 [9 favorites]


Part of me wonders how Paul Ryan is able to maintain control over the moderate R's in the House as this debacle continues. Most of them have to be watching this gathering trainwreck in mute horror, aware that if Trump goes down, he's going to take much of the Republican orthodoxy with him. All it would take is a very small coalition of moderate Republicans from purple states, who are willing to campaign in 2018 on the "I started impeachment proceedings against that traitorous bastard, against the will of my own party leadership" platform. I know this won't happen out the goodness of their (blackened, corrupt) hearts, but it has a ton of political upside. They have to know that the history books are not going to be kind to the enablers in this Congress. Who do we have to call to start applying pressure?
posted by Mayor West at 7:19 AM on February 15, 2017 [17 favorites]



The beach vacation is just a distraction to make people THINK he's not shadowing.
posted by Jalliah at 7:19 AM on February 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


"moderate" republicans are standing in the back of the room going "um, can we just get our tax cuts now please?" while the rest of the house is yammering on about destroying the EPA and the dept. of education
posted by murphy slaw at 7:21 AM on February 15, 2017 [21 favorites]


that Nemerov poem is gorgeous, and I didn't know it before, so thank you!

You're welcome! I don't see it on the page when I reload and your link to the comment now points to the poem itself. :)
posted by kingless at 7:21 AM on February 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


All it would take is a very small coalition of moderate Republicans from purple states, who are willing to campaign in 2018 on the "I started impeachment proceedings against that traitorous bastard, against the will of my own party leadership" platform.

"purple state" != "purple district"

There are a few Republicans in non-gerrymandered districts who might be willing to stand up. They know that the second they did, they'd be targeted from the right, and in a midterm election, that would be enough to get them primaried out, because all those moderates and Democrats who would vote for them because of their brave stance don't vote in primaries.
posted by Etrigan at 7:22 AM on February 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


The EPA termination bill has had only the same four sponsors and hasn't moved forward since the 3rd. I don't think it's anything to worry about.
posted by J.K. Seazer at 7:23 AM on February 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


I want to see them meet before the impeachment.

I'd settle for never seeing that if it means not seeing Yalta II.
posted by acb at 7:23 AM on February 15, 2017


So you really believe Paul "who me, starve grannies?" Ryan is incapable of disingenuous projection of earnest naivete and the best of intentions?

It's his signature move.


Literally. every. time. I see Ryan on camera doing his patented "earnest honest forthright son of the Midwest who was born in a log cabin he built himself" act, I think of this scene from Law and Order in which a conman weasels his way out of a murder conviction by sad-puppy-eye-fucking and seducing a juror.

The ending of the episode cheers me right up, though.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:23 AM on February 15, 2017 [15 favorites]


How is the logical endgame here not a leak of his taxes proving the significance and treasonousness of the Russia connection?

My concern is that the administration seems backed into a corner and its clearly not beneath them to do anything they can to consolidate power and distract people, and that worries me a lot.
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 7:24 AM on February 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


Taxes or pee tape. Watch both hands.
posted by spitbull at 7:26 AM on February 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


Wash both hands too.
posted by spitbull at 7:26 AM on February 15, 2017 [33 favorites]


Literally. every. time. I see Ryan on camera doing his patented "earnest honest forthright son of the Midwest who was born in a log cabin he built himself" act

i are serious congressman. this is serious bill.
posted by murphy slaw at 7:26 AM on February 15, 2017 [15 favorites]


Somewhere someone pointed out that if you actually get rid of the EPA, businesses have to comply with state regulations for fifty states. Business does not like uncertainty, and having to manufacture a widget that complies with CA, NY, etc rules that are probably changing on the regular is a lot harder than manufacturing a widget which complies with the EPA rule. A weak and compromised EPA helps business; the elimination of the EPA does not.
posted by Frowner at 7:27 AM on February 15, 2017 [73 favorites]


Part of me wonders how Paul Ryan is able to maintain control over the moderate R's in the House as this debacle continues. Most of them have to be watching this gathering trainwreck in mute horror, aware that if Trump goes down, he's going to take much of the Republican orthodoxy with him. All it would take is a very small coalition of moderate Republicans from purple states, who are willing to campaign in 2018 on the "I started impeachment proceedings against that traitorous bastard, against the will of my own party leadership" platform. I know this won't happen out the goodness of their (blackened, corrupt) hearts, but it has a ton of political upside. They have to know that the history books are not going to be kind to the enablers in this Congress. Who do we have to call to start applying pressure?

It's the paradox of shared knowledge; there's everybody knowing that the emperor has no clothes then there's everybody knowing that everybody knows that the emperor has no clothes, and finally everybody knowing that everybody knows that everybody knows, which is when the levee breaks and the deluge comes. We're still at stage 1, and the levee is being held up by some combination of polarisation, Russian kompromat and sweet, sweet liberal tears.
posted by acb at 7:29 AM on February 15, 2017 [6 favorites]


Instead of tweet-ranting at the morning shows, today's meltdown seems to be courtesy of a printout of Mike Allen's daily blast from [H]Axios, which is written in small words and short paragraphs.

a leak of his taxes proving the significance and treasonousness of the Russia connection?

The IRS seems leakproof. Also, I don't think a tax return would tell the whole story, and certainly not in an obvious way, given how the Family Business is organised.

Part of me wonders how Paul Ryan is able to maintain control over the moderate R's in the House

You can fit the "moderate R's in the House" in a minivan.
posted by holgate at 7:31 AM on February 15, 2017 [7 favorites]


The IRS isn't the only one with his taxes, though, right? I don't think they will tell the whole story by a mile, but there will be evidence, and a discussion of that evidence, which I don't think he could withstand.

During the campaign I wanted them to come out to prove out some of his dishonesty - I now genuinely think that would have been irrelevant and am almost glad we haven't seen them yet. Now that the Russia connection groundwork is laid, and he claimed repeatedly to have no business interest, im not sure a really complicated business structure could hide what have to be substantial financial ties.
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 7:35 AM on February 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


I don't think [the EPA bill] is anything to worry about.

Other than that the primary sponsor is a brand new thirtysomething rep from Florida in an R+23 district whose dad is a big cheese in Florida state politics, and who clearly thinks he has a long career in politics ahead of him. Don't worry about the bill, worry about the aspirations of the sponsor.
posted by holgate at 7:38 AM on February 15, 2017 [8 favorites]


Credit where it's due, Shouty Spice: that's the closest anyone in this administration has gotten to pulling off a healthy willingness to laugh at themself.

Spicey led off yesterday's briefing with: "It's Valentine's Day. I can feel the love in the room," so yeah, he has his moments. He also seems much more perfunctorily "Dude, I have to be bellicose; it's my job. The boss said so" than before.

I mean, still terrible and reprehensible, but probably the most human of these fucking stiffs?
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:39 AM on February 15, 2017 [8 favorites]


"The IRS isn't the only one with his taxes, though, right?"

They're typically joint returns, so Marla may be able to scare up a year or two.
posted by klarck at 7:39 AM on February 15, 2017


Pay attention to who called this story correctly from the beginning.

That would be Josh Marshall.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 7:39 AM on February 15, 2017 [35 favorites]


Spicey led off yesterday's briefing with: "It's Valentine's Day. I can feel the love in the room," so yeah, he has his moments. He also seems much more perfunctorily "Dude, I have to be bellicose; it's my job. The boss said so" than before.

I mean, still terrible and reprehensible, but probably the most human of these fucking stiffs?


My God, am I acknowledging the humanity of Sean Spicer? 2017 does things to a man.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:40 AM on February 15, 2017 [15 favorites]


Marla already scared one up. Otherwise Fahrenholdt would be in jail. (IANAL)
posted by Yowser at 7:41 AM on February 15, 2017


Part of me wonders how Paul Ryan is able to maintain control over the moderate R's in the House as this debacle continues. Most of them have to be watching this gathering trainwreck in mute horror, aware that if Trump goes down, he's going to take much of the Republican orthodoxy with him.

What Trump is trying to deliver is much of what these Rs' constituents want. It's much of what these Rs want as well. But it's delivering them with hamfists, overreach and bluster, and stepping over lines and norms that make the left furious.

So their best play is obvious: let Trump be Trump. The base is happy enough to keep these GOP reps elected. When he flames out, let him take the blame for overreaching, and enjoy the Overton Window having shifted to where hardline conservatism is now the new moderate, while President Pence intones solemnly that We Must All Come Together As Americans In The Wake Of This Tragic Fall and This Is Not The Time For Partisan Politics and Shameful Democratic Obstructionism.

Or we could just start bombing somewhere and everyone will forget all about it.
posted by delfin at 7:41 AM on February 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


a leak of his taxes proving the significance and treasonousness of the Russia connection?

The IRS seems leakproof.


Leakproof for now. One important thing to remember is that the structure of the IRS hasn't been infiltrated by Trumpsters yet. Obama's IRS commissioner is still in place, and most of the people who work for the IRS are not presidential appointees (and are more likely to be women or people of color than in other agencies). They both have more to lose from leaking than intelligence officials do (i.e., fewer resources to protect themselves from the fallout) and their jobs haven't been specifically impacted by Trumpism yet. If we see Koskinen and others replaced by Trumpsters, and if they try to push Trumpism in the IRS culture, we might start to see IRS leaks.
posted by melissasaurus at 7:42 AM on February 15, 2017 [9 favorites]


there's everybody knowing that the emperor has no clothes

Except the fucking emperor, which I guess goes without saying. At least he has a bathrobe.
posted by spitbull at 7:42 AM on February 15, 2017 [6 favorites]


This is getting ahead of myself, but I keep thinking about the future Trump Presidential Library.

Most presidential libraries are presented around the major themes of the administration. There's an intro bit about their life before the Presidency, and then a rough chronological presentation with those major themes highlighted.

Assuming that Donald doesn't last the whole four years -- what would his library look like? The intro part is easy: undistinguished, problematic childhood, real estate career, 80s playboy, reality teevee star. Then we have the election, which was a mess, but relatively straightforward to present in terms of facts. Then we have Donald actually getting into the White House, and -- how to describe that? What are the overarching themes or goals? Reactionary paranoia and disregard for facts? Kleptocracy and self-interest? Is there a grand idea behind all of this, or is that part of the library simply going to be labeled "The Ship of State Lists", and all this mess just tossed in there?

Not the greatest school trip, is what I'm saying.
posted by Capt. Renault at 7:43 AM on February 15, 2017 [7 favorites]


The Trump Presidential Video Library
posted by acb at 7:44 AM on February 15, 2017 [24 favorites]


what does the William Henry Harrison presidential library look like
posted by murphy slaw at 7:45 AM on February 15, 2017 [15 favorites]


Not the greatest school trip, is what I'm saying.

Where else will the children learn about Pizzagate?
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:45 AM on February 15, 2017 [8 favorites]


A copy of Mein Kampf on a really ornate golden bookshelf.
posted by spitbull at 7:45 AM on February 15, 2017 [10 favorites]


I assumed the Trump Presidential Library would just look like this.
posted by biogeo at 7:46 AM on February 15, 2017 [27 favorites]


A copy of Mein Kampf on a really ornate golden bookshelf.

Except it's hollowed out, and hidden inside is a tube of bronzer.
posted by uncleozzy at 7:47 AM on February 15, 2017 [26 favorites]


Foreign Policy says that Trump offered Vice Admiral Harward the National Security Adviser job on Monday night: "President Donald Trump offered the job of national security advisor to retired Vice Adm. Robert Harward on Monday night, and was a bit surprised when Harward responded by saying he needed a couple of days to think it over."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:50 AM on February 15, 2017 [68 favorites]


oops, harward might be too smart to join this admin?
posted by murphy slaw at 7:53 AM on February 15, 2017 [7 favorites]


Adm. Harward, for the love of god, demand that Bannon be pulled off the NSC as a condition for taking the job. (Tommy Vietor likes Harward, so I'm OK with him.)
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:55 AM on February 15, 2017 [16 favorites]


"Think it over" = "avoid the train wreck unfolding in real time."
posted by spitbull at 7:55 AM on February 15, 2017 [14 favorites]


A copy of Mein Kampf on a really ornate golden bookshelf.
Wait for the EO about making the Statue of Liberty great again.
posted by elgilito at 7:56 AM on February 15, 2017


what does the William Henry Harrison presidential library look like

It's called the WmHHar Pr Li, for one.
posted by Etrigan at 7:56 AM on February 15, 2017


Assuming that Donald doesn't last the whole four years -- what would his library look like?

File photo
posted by Mayor West at 7:56 AM on February 15, 2017 [10 favorites]


trump's presidential libary will be the stripped fuselage of his 757 in a desolate desert airplane boneyard site. In Mexico.

I think two vast and trunkless legs of stone would suffice.
posted by emjaybee at 8:00 AM on February 15, 2017 [61 favorites]


Wait is Chaffetz going to do something?

No, this is the MO. Going back at least to Pussygate, when he said that he couldn't look his daughter in the eye and vote vote for Trump and then backtracked to "won't endorse but will vote." Just Google "Chaffitz asks" to see all the things he's enquired about that didn't need any action, after all.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:01 AM on February 15, 2017 [11 favorites]




one for the "will never happen but might make trump mad" file:

Group urges New York AG to put Trump out of business by revoking charter

posted by murphy slaw at 8:02 AM on February 15, 2017 [7 favorites]


Business does not like uncertainty, and having to manufacture a widget that complies with CA, NY, etc rules that are probably changing on the regular is a lot harder than manufacturing a widget which complies with the EPA rule. A weak and compromised EPA helps business; the elimination of the EPA does not.

What? No, you just do like they want to do with health insurance ("get rid of the lines") and everybody is stuck with Kentucky's (or Texas' or whomever's) enviro regs.
posted by notyou at 8:04 AM on February 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


everybody is stuck with Kentucky's (or Texas' or whomever's) enviro regs.

But not if you want to sell your product in CA.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:07 AM on February 15, 2017 [14 favorites]


@NBCNightlyNews: BREAKING: Sec. Mattis: US will "moderate its commitment" to NATO if members do not increase defense spending by end of year.

Between this and coming within a hair's breadth of violating international treaties to start a shooting war with his personal, it's definitely time to chuck any defenses of Mattis as the "reasonable" member of the team. One more NeverTrumper gone to the dark side...
posted by zombieflanders at 8:07 AM on February 15, 2017 [61 favorites]


At today's EduHam (a program put on at the Hamilton musical, where local kids get to see the show for $10 and put their own presentations on, on the stage of the Richard Rodgers theatre), a student rapping about American Revolution leads the entire theater in a chant, "No, no, no, he will not divide us." (video)
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:08 AM on February 15, 2017 [18 favorites]


Just watched last night's Rachel Maddow Show and she reported the same thing as chris24 mentioned above, that Trump only won Tom Price's district by a sliver, but the Democrats do not appear to have made any preparations and do not seem to care about contesting Price's seat in the upcoming special election.
posted by XMLicious at 8:08 AM on February 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


(Hit post too soon) isn't this why car manufacturers have to meet CA's standards?
posted by Room 641-A at 8:08 AM on February 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


one for the "will never happen but might make trump mad" file:
Group urges New York AG to put Trump out of business by revoking charter


I wouldn't completely discount the chance of this happening. I was at an event with AG Schneiderman last week and he was like "I have a hard time even saying 'President Trump'" - dude haaaaates Trump.
posted by melissasaurus at 8:08 AM on February 15, 2017 [10 favorites]


everybody is stuck with Kentucky's (or Texas' or whomever's) enviro regs.

But not if you want to sell your product in CA.


That's also ignoring waste management that happens entirely within a state's boundary.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 8:10 AM on February 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


Not a surprise, but the Senate voted 57-43 to roll back an Obama rule requiring gun background checks for "mentally incapable" Social Security recipients. The bill will go to Trump's desk.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:11 AM on February 15, 2017 [7 favorites]


isn't this why car manufacturers have to meet CA's standards?

My guess is the Fed will just do what Republican states do when cities in those states increase the minimum wage or pass other laws they don't like and just create a federal law that de-fangs California.
posted by drezdn at 8:12 AM on February 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


Trump only won Tom Price's district by a sliver, but the Democrats do not appear to have made any preparations and do not seem to care about contesting Price's seat in the upcoming special election.

There are seven declared Democratic candidates and two more anticipated. I know the guy running Jon Ossof's campaign. He's a full-time professional Democratic campaign manager who was sent there from Michigan. The Democrats are prepared. They do care. They are contesting it.
posted by Etrigan at 8:15 AM on February 15, 2017 [64 favorites]


Not a surprise, but the Senate voted 57-43 to roll back an Obama rule requiring gun background checks for "mentally incapable" Social Security recipients. The bill will go to Trump's desk.

Does this plus yesterday's Dodd-Frank rollback mean they can create one new regulation now? Or am I misunderstanding the rules of Law Karma
posted by theodolite at 8:19 AM on February 15, 2017 [10 favorites]


isn't this why car manufacturers have to meet CA's standards?

They meet CA's standards because CA is the biggest market. But if you said that CA had to accept any other state's regs as legitimate (as Trump et al have proposed for health insurance ("get rid of the lines") or how lenders HQ in Delaware or North Dakota), then any state's regs will do.
posted by notyou at 8:19 AM on February 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


There are seven declared Democratic candidates and two more anticipated.

That... doesn't seem ideal either? There's no primary for this election, so this is essentially a free for all. More Dem candidates fighting among themselves isn't a good thing. I know it's a runoff style, but still... a little focus and party unity would be nice. Too much is at stake.
posted by Roommate at 8:25 AM on February 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


Not a surprise, but the Senate voted 57-43 to roll back an Obama rule requiring gun background checks for "mentally incapable" Social Security recipients. The bill will go to Trump's desk.

That's not a fair representation of the bill. Here's what the ACLU had to say. Basically it only covers those people who "need a representative payee to manage their money benefit". This does not imply that they are mentally incapable. There is no due process in this determination, and the Social Security Administration has stated that representative payees are appointed for many individuals who are legally competent.
posted by zabuni at 8:26 AM on February 15, 2017 [10 favorites]


It's a little bit of a stretch to say that there was an investigation specifically about Socks, but he did come up during the then-chairman of the House Government Reform and Oversight Committee Dan Burton's investigation into the Clinton's Christmas card list, in the form of a letter;
"As a member of the new Committee on Government Reform and Oversight, I would like to inquire what the standard practice is for the White House to respond to mail directed to `Socks,' your cat," he wrote. "How many of these inquiries were responded to over the past two years? Who pays for the postage? If it comes out of the White House mail budget, why are the taxpayers being made to pay for your feline's fan club."
Of course: "He now laughs this off as a "mistake" dreamed up by a staff aide."

There was a similar compare/contrast a decade ago about Bush & FISA (oblig. cat picture) with bonus IOKIYAR aspect.
posted by achrise at 8:27 AM on February 15, 2017 [12 favorites]


There are seven declared Democratic candidates and two more anticipated.

That... doesn't seem ideal either? ... I know it's a runoff style, but still... a little focus and party unity would be nice. Too much is at stake.


This is a big part of the problem in the Democratic party these days. If the party had come in and said "Okay, no infighting, we've decided that This Person will be the candidate," then you'd get just as much complaining.
posted by Etrigan at 8:29 AM on February 15, 2017 [17 favorites]


From the ACLU document: "We oppose this rule because it advances and reinforces the harmful stereotype that
people with mental disabilities a vast and diverse group of citizens are violent."

No, it really doesn't. It says that if you aren't able to manage your own affairs because of mental illness, you should not have a gun before a background check. There is nothing wrong with this idea.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:29 AM on February 15, 2017 [13 favorites]


Man, even after all this time, I still believed that the problematic word in "but her emails!" was "emails." But nope, it was "her."
posted by KathrynT at 8:29 AM on February 15, 2017 [83 favorites]


Exceptional_Hubris: The IRS isn't the only one with his taxes, though, right? I don't think they will tell the whole story by a mile, but there will be evidence, and a discussion of that evidence, which I don't think he could withstand.

I wonder if there's even proof that Trump filed any tax returns.
posted by SteveInMaine at 8:31 AM on February 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


Russia Urges Trump to Keep Pledge on Relations Amid Crimea Row

Russia called on U.S. President Donald Trump to live up to his pledge to improve relations, amid growing unease in Moscow that he may not lift sanctions imposed over the crisis in Ukraine.

“Crimea was TAKEN by Russia during the Obama administration. Was Obama too soft on Russia?” Trump said on Twitter Wednesday. Senior officials in Moscow had earlier criticized White House spokesman Sean Spicer for saying on Tuesday that the president expects Russia to “return” the Black Sea peninsula annexed from Ukraine in 2014.

Spicer’s comment on Crimea is at odds with Trump’s campaign pledge to restore relations, Vyacheslav Volodin, speaker of the Russian lower house of parliament, told lawmakers Wednesday, the Interfax news service reported. “Everything will be fine” if the president fulfills his election program, Volodin said.

posted by Jalliah at 8:31 AM on February 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


“Everything will be fine” if the president fulfills his election program, Volodin said.

"This will be fine. We will be OK with the events that will be currently unfolding."

[fireсобака.jpg]
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:34 AM on February 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


Former NSA intelligence analyst John Schindler on failing US president Donald Trump: "He will die in jail."

BTW, I really like the epithet "failing US president Donald Trump" and don't mind at all if you use it as well...)
posted by sour cream at 8:34 AM on February 15, 2017 [31 favorites]


Don't Buy Mike Pence's Innocent Act

While Governor of Indiana, Pence used the old "had no knowledge" chestnut to distance himself from scandal. And it was just as absurd then as it is now.

Perhaps most famously, Pence claimed, exactly as he is now, that he learned from the press about the proposal for a state-run and taxpayer-funded news (propaganda) outlet: "I frankly learned about the memo from press reports late Monday."

He made this incredible claim despite the fact that two employees had already been hired; that "a governance board of communications directors" had been established; that a draft story had already been circulated; and that Pence himself had tweeted about it.

posted by emjaybee at 8:34 AM on February 15, 2017 [62 favorites]


What would happen to an IRS person who leaked? Obviously they'd be fired, but would they go to prison? As a single, childless person I'd gladly do the former if it helped bring him down, but the latter is a pretty strong deterrent. Someone needs to pull a Snowden (except the Russia part).
posted by AFABulous at 8:34 AM on February 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


That's not a fair representation of the bill. Here's what the ACLU had to say. Basically it only covers those people who "need a representative payee to manage their money benefit". This does not imply that they are mentally incapable

That's not fair either. Here's the regulation.

From the included Q&A:
We are not reporting information in records based solely on a medical finding of disability without the person being adjudicated as subject to the Federal mental health prohibitor “consistent with 18 U.S.C. 922(g)(4).” The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) has clarified through regulations that this prohibition covers individuals who have been determined by a court, board, commission or other lawful authority as a result of marked subnormal intelligence, or mental illness, incompetency, condition or disease to be a danger to himself or to others, or who lacks the mental capacity to contract or manage his or her own affairs.
[...]
We also are not basing our reporting of records to the NICS solely on a medical finding of disability. Rather, consistent with section 101(a)(4) of the NIAA and the ATF's implementing regulation, we are basing our report on the individual's inability to manage his or her affairs as a result of his or her mental impairment.
[...]
With regard to the broader point the commenters raised about the constitutionality of our actions under the Second Amendment, we note that the Supreme Court recognized in District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570, 595 (2008), “that the Second Amendment conferred an individual right to keep and bear arms.” The Court emphasized, however, that, “[l]ike most rights, the right secured by the Second Amendment is not unlimited,” id., at 626, and that “nothing in [the Court's] opinion should be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill.” Id. Our actions, taken in accordance with the Congress' directives in the NIAA, the President's January 2013 memorandum to Executive agencies, and DOJ's March 2013 guidance, are fully consistent with the Supreme Court's recognition in Heller of the validity “of longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by . . . the mentally ill.” Nothing in the rules we are issuing today is inconsistent with the scope of the Second Amendment as interpreted in Heller. Accordingly, we have not made any changes to the rule in response to comments asserting that our actions were inconsistent with an individual's Second Amendment right.
Due process exists for the underlying determinations, plus there's a review process:
Affected individuals will have the opportunity to apply for relief from the Federal firearms prohibitions imposed by 18 U.S.C. 922(g)(4) at any time after our adjudication has become final. We have clarified our rules to make that point. We will follow the requirements of the NIAA and apply principles of due process in determining applicants' entitlement to relief from the burdens imposed by inclusion in the NICS. Under these rules, we will provide individuals with advance notice at the commencement of the adjudication that we may report their information to NICS if we find they meet the criteria for reporting when the adjudication is final. An individual can request relief any time after the adjudication is final but we cannot delay fulfilling our obligations under the NIAA to provide relevant records to the Attorney General while the person decides whether to request relief.
[...]
Consistent with the NIAA, we will provide oral and written notice to the beneficiary at the commencement of the adjudication, which we define as after we have determined that he or she meets the medical requirements for disability based on a finding that his or Start Printed Page 91705her impairment(s) meets or medically equals the requirements of the mental disorders listings, but before we find that he or she requires a representative payee. Under these final rules, we will provide individuals with the opportunity to apply for relief from the Federal firearms prohibitions once the adjudication becomes final and those prohibitions are imposed.
[...]
Because we will only identify individuals for reporting on a prospective basis, existing beneficiaries with representative payees will not be affected by these final rules.
posted by snuffleupagus at 8:35 AM on February 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


What would happen to an IRS person who leaked? Obviously they'd be fired, but would they go to prison?

$5000 fine or up to 5 years in prison.
posted by melissasaurus at 8:36 AM on February 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


There is nothing wrong with this idea.

we are basing our report on the individual's inability to manage his or her affairs as a result of his or her mental impairment.

Inability to deal with financial manners does not imply inability to deal with other manners. From the PDF:

Here, the rule automatically conflates one disability related characteristic, that is, difficulty managing money, with the inability to safely possess a firearm.

This is also why the Autistic Self Advocacy Network , and the Nation Council on Disability were against it.
posted by zabuni at 8:38 AM on February 15, 2017 [8 favorites]


Re - shadow government: in the UK, that's exactly how it's supposed to work. To be considered the official opposition, which comes with various benefits and privileges, a party (or even a stable coalition) has to have a Shadow Cabinet, with appointees in place who shadow the major cabinet positions in the government. The idea is that if there's an election, the voters know the shape of the new administration beforehand and that administration is ready to go from day 1.

This makes more sense when you have a parliamentary system that can theoretically have a general election at very short notice, but the basic idea of being a shadow government-in-waiting is seen as being a basic attribute of any plausible opposition party. It's not a scary sekret thing, it's official policy. And you actually get to be called the Shadow Chancellor, which is a pretty cool supervillain title for your business card.
posted by Devonian at 8:42 AM on February 15, 2017 [40 favorites]


What would happen to an IRS person who leaked? Obviously they'd be fired, but would they go to prison?

$5000 fine or up to 5 years in prison.


And a target on their back for every brownshirt Trumpnik Nazi that's crawled out from the shadows in the last year or so.
posted by dirigibleman at 8:43 AM on February 15, 2017 [7 favorites]


“Everything will be fine” if the president fulfills his election program, Volodin said.

They really aren't trying to hide it any more. I guess they've decided that a weakened, illegitimate President Pence or Ryan suits their needs (fucking around in Crimea or the Baltics with impunity, I assume) just as well as failing US President Donald Trump does.
posted by tobascodagama at 8:45 AM on February 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


Former NSA intelligence analyst John Schindler on failing US president Donald Trump: "He will die in jail."

BTW, I really like the epithet "failing US president Donald Trump" and don't mind at all if you use it as well...)


I saw Schindler's tweet earlier about the email he got from one of his sources. I remain skeptical about him but there was part of me that read it and thought 'time to batten down the hatches, going to get rough'.

I'll admit that I'm finding it difficult to separate desire and feelings from more objective speculation right now. What I think may be happening is that we're in the prologue stage of a book. The broad narrative or broad strokes of an opening argument is being set. The 'leaks' are telling us a story and we're only on the first page of 'firstly grab and intrigue the reader'.

As I said may be more wishful thinking then anything else but that's where I'm at right now.
posted by Jalliah at 8:45 AM on February 15, 2017 [18 favorites]


I'll admit that I'm finding it difficult to separate desire and feelings from more objective speculation right now.

omg yes. at this point i am impatient for the collapse of the administration to accelerate but my rational mind knows that is not a given.
posted by murphy slaw at 8:47 AM on February 15, 2017 [17 favorites]




Yeah I knew nothing of this until about 5 minutes ago, but looking at the text of the regulation quoted by snuffleupagus above, plus the ACLU document opposing the reg, I'm on the ACLU's side here. Needing help to manage one's finances has no bearing on one's ability to responsibly use a firearm.

I see it as a similar issue to the no-fly no-buy thing that the Dems tried to pull last year. Yes: I agree that gun rights should be dramatically curtailed. But trying to do so piecemeal, by targeting politically unpopular or powerless groups is the wrong way. It is discriminatory and dangerous.

I bet you could get a ban on Muslim gun ownership through this Congress in about five seconds flat, and the President would be signing it about three seconds later. Same principle. Discrimination is wrong even when the underlying right is itself problematic.

posted by tivalasvegas at 8:49 AM on February 15, 2017 [35 favorites]


Here, the rule automatically conflates one disability related characteristic, that is, difficulty managing money, with the inability to safely possess a firearm.


I would be willing to conflate the inability to manage money with the inability to:

keep a firearm locked in a separate safe from its ammunition.

keep an orange insert with the firearm so that it's maintained in an unloaded state until ready to fire.

keep the safes locked so children cannot get at them.

The two disabilities appear strongly co-related.
posted by ocschwar at 8:50 AM on February 15, 2017 [8 favorites]


Inability to deal with financial manners does not imply inability to deal with other manners

Legally adjudicated incapacity carries with it an inability to contract, but it is hardly so simple as an "inability to deal with financial matters." There are other mechanisms for that short of this kind of conservatorship so long as the person is still capable of managing their affairs in terms of overall decision making (via trustees, powers of attorney, etc).

The law is clumsy here but it's trying to get at people who are disabled in a way that prevents them from being responsible for the major decisions in their lives.
posted by snuffleupagus at 8:51 AM on February 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


What would happen to an IRS person who leaked?

Fine, jail, loss of any federal benefits, including pension. And the IRS system tracks lookups, and have flags on certain SSNs.

Tax returns alone aren't going to lay bare the relationships of hundreds of private corporations and LLCs. There's more transparency in the Scottish golf holdings than for any US-based corporate entity, but even those have multiple tiers of ownership where the trail ends at a Delaware LLC.
posted by holgate at 8:52 AM on February 15, 2017 [6 favorites]


The EPA has adopted CA's car pollution standards, which is why you don't see CA vs 49-state versions of new cars, whereas you did back in, like, the 90's. Part of the California Air Resources Board't (CARB) clout comes from a waiver by the EPA, that allows California, and no other state, to set their own, different, standards. (States can adopt California standards, and some did, leading to 45-state models for a very brief period.)

There are various ways to defang the regulatory system at large, but completely dropping the EPA cold turkey is laughably bad, just as you'd expect from Trump's Incompetents. (Like "Trump's secret plan to make Mexico pay for the wall" level of stupid.)

In case you wanted to read the whole text of the bill, which can sometimes be very long and dry, with clearly thought through lots of nitty gritty inside-baseball level of detail, referencing other sections and modifying their text to be coherent, here's the full text of House bill 861, according to www.congress.gov:
To terminate the Environmental Protection Agency.

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,
SECTION 1. TERMINATION OF THE ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY.

The Environmental Protection Agency shall terminate on December 31, 2018.
posted by fragmede at 8:58 AM on February 15, 2017 [10 favorites]


What would happen to an IRS person who leaked?

In a just world, a pardon and the Presidential Medal of Freedom.
posted by mayonnaises at 8:59 AM on February 15, 2017 [34 favorites]


I see it as a similar issue to the no-fly no-buy thing that the Dems tried to pull last year. Yes: I agree that gun rights should be dramatically curtailed. But trying to do so piecemeal, by targeting politically unpopular or powerless groups is the wrong way. It is discriminatory and dangerous.

I'm not sure I disagree with the regulation itself, in a vacuum, but I do agree that breaking out groups to restrict when the real problem is the underlying 2nd Am. law is a bad way to go.
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:00 AM on February 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


I'm not sure I disagree with the regulation itself, in a vacuum, but I do agree that breaking out groups to restrict when the real problem is the underlying 2nd am. law is a bad way to go.

I mean, President Obama didn't think that incremental steps to make people actually safer was a bad way to go.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:02 AM on February 15, 2017


The EPA has adopted CA's car pollution standards, which is why you don't see CA vs 49-state versions of new cars, whereas you did back in, like, the 90's.

I remember when "California emissions" was listed as a feature when game shows gave away cars.
posted by Etrigan at 9:03 AM on February 15, 2017 [12 favorites]


What would happen to an IRS person who leaked? Obviously they'd be fired, but would they go to prison?

I don't think it's the consequences that are stopping people. I think that the people who could leak probably think it won't even matter. The election is done, the congressional Rs are behind him 110%. Nobody can do anything that would change the situation other than burn some now unneeded political capital.
posted by Talez at 9:05 AM on February 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


Can the gun thing get its own thread, maybe?
posted by tobascodagama at 9:07 AM on February 15, 2017 [32 favorites]


I have now seen two non-strangers (though not people I know personally) post on twitter that Kellyanne is out/packing her stuff up as I type. Neither was sourced. Is anyone else seeing anything remotely believable on this?
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 9:07 AM on February 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


"moderate" republicans are standing in the back of the room going "um, can we just get our tax cuts now please?" while the rest of the house is yammering on about destroying the EPA and the dept. of education

Moderate Republicans are democrats and have been for a few decades.

There are no moderate republicans.
posted by srboisvert at 9:08 AM on February 15, 2017 [24 favorites]


I remember when "California emissions" was listed as a feature when game shows gave away cars.

Still is, just under the "50-state emissions" label.
posted by ArgentCorvid at 9:12 AM on February 15, 2017


you have to come to California if you want a real authentic emission burrito
posted by prize bull octorok at 9:13 AM on February 15, 2017 [34 favorites]


phrasing plz
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:13 AM on February 15, 2017 [9 favorites]


I mean, President Obama didn't think that incremental steps to make people actually safer was a bad way to go.

Obviously not, his administration produced the regulation. I think there's a good rationale for it, but I'm still sensitive to the complaint of vulnerable groups that they're being singled out for token measures.
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:13 AM on February 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


There are seven declared Democratic candidates and two more anticipated.
That... doesn't seem ideal either? ... I know it's a runoff style, but still... a little focus and party unity would be nice. Too much is at stake.

This news source says that "five Republicans, two Democrats and one independent qualified on Monday in a special election to replace Tom Price in the 6th congressional district."
posted by galaxy rise at 9:13 AM on February 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


Had an interesting, hour-long chat with a senior staffer in Senator Isakson's (R-GA) office yesterday. She's 70, and has been in politics since Reagan. We had a very candid and pleasant conversation, and I appreciated her experience and her taking the time to talk to me. Here are the high points of our conversation:

I asked her if she, personally, was experiencing any cognitive dissonance over the fact that so much of Trump's campaign was based around Clinton's private, unsecured email server, yet he's conducting foreign policy surrounded by diners at his country club. She said this didn't really happen; that as soon as Trump was informed about the North Korean missile test, he hopped up and went into another room.
I said, "That's not what the dude at the next table over who Facebooked the whole thing said. He's posting pictures of all them huddled together, talking about what to do while other diners sit and watch. We can see those pictures."
"Yes, well, you can make a picture look like anything," she said.

*

She said she thought that Trump's presidency was just like any other presidency. Nothing unusual. She said she was hearing all day, every day from voters who are angry and terrified, and they needed to just take a step back. I asked her if she thought huge numbers of angry, frightened voters was actually something unusual about this presidency. She said that the voters were being scared by the media, who were whipping things up. I asked her what she and the Republicans planned to do about all the angry, scared people who were showing up at their representatives' offices all over the country, asking questions about health care, education, Russia, etc. I said, "Maybe the media's whipping them up for no good reason, but now they're whipped up."
"It's all just manufactured from outside," she said.

*

She said people needed to give Trump a chance and stop obstructing him. "It has never taken a president this long to fill his cabinet," she told me.
"That's not true," I said. "It took Bush and Clinton until March."
"No," she said. "That's not true."
"OK, let's say you're right," I said. "Possibly that's because he's appointing very controversial people. People who are unqualified, and who are sneaking around with Russia. Doesn't Russia concern you at all? After working with Reagan? The man who won the Cold War?"
"No, it doesn't concern me. If there were anything bad with Trump they would have found it before he became president, with the security clearance. If there were some big problem with Russia, they would know."
"How would they know?" I asked her.
"Well, for instance, through his financial records."
"But he hasn't released his tax returns!" I said. "So no one's seen his financial records."
"That's true. It's probably because, you know, he paid his taxes but he didn't really have to, because he took advantage of all these loopholes. He doesn't want to release them because it'd look bad."
"As would huge conflicts of interest with foreign governments, like Russia," I said.
"That's just crazy," she said.
posted by staggering termagant at 9:14 AM on February 15, 2017 [156 favorites]


The two disabilities appear strongly co-related.

They're not. You'd be surprised how not generalizable ability is. I organize things for a living, and can do the planning and thinking really well in that context, but my inattentive ADHD with organizational related anxiety can make more routine survival and financial stresses much harder to deal with than other kinds of tasks in different contexts.
posted by saulgoodman at 9:15 AM on February 15, 2017 [25 favorites]


Argggggggggggggggggh.
It doesn't matter what he does, everything is OK as long as he's a Republican.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:15 AM on February 15, 2017 [19 favorites]


One "interesting" thing about the Harward pick for NSA is that he was Mattis' deputy at CENTCOM. John Kelly is also a former Mattis deputy, serving directly under him in the Iraq invasion. At what point do we begin to categorize this administration by factions?
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:16 AM on February 15, 2017 [8 favorites]


"That's just crazy," she said.

Yes. Yes, you are.
posted by Celsius1414 at 9:17 AM on February 15, 2017 [7 favorites]


Metafilter: Yeah I knew nothing of this until about 5 minutes ago, but
posted by persona at 9:17 AM on February 15, 2017 [29 favorites]


"No," she said. "That's not true."

This is where I'd have to just hang up. How do you even deal with this level of denial of observable reality among the senior professional staff of Republicans?! How?!
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:18 AM on February 15, 2017 [25 favorites]


Had an interesting, hour-long chat with a senior staffer in Senator Isakson's (R-GA) office yesterday. She's 70, and has been in politics since Reagan. We had a very candid and pleasant conversation, and I appreciated her experience and her taking the time to talk to me. Here are the high points of our conversation: ...

Someone was definitely high, that's for sure.
posted by jferg at 9:18 AM on February 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


At what point do we begin to categorize this administration by factions?

I would say like last March, but I guess if you mean the technical administration part, January 20th.
posted by Etrigan at 9:19 AM on February 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


It's not just "it's okay if you're a Republican," it's "it didn't really happen if you're a Republican." The integrity and moral superiority of Republicans is taken by their core supporters as axiomatic, and all other information is evaluated in that framework. I don't know one fights that. Try to find beliefs that are even more fundamental and appeal to those, I guess. Evidence obviously isn't going to play a role.
posted by biogeo at 9:21 AM on February 15, 2017 [32 favorites]


Obviously not, his administration produced the regulation. I think there's a good rationale for it, but I'm still sensitive to the complaint of vulnerable groups that they're being singled out for token measures.

If there's a concern that people who are not capable of taking X, Y and Z safety measures are getting guns / licenses, then that can and should be built into the purchasing or licensing process for everyone. This isn't that, it's a targeted attempt to bar a certain group from gun ownership, which the Democrats got away with because the target group didn't have much political power. That's not okay, even if Barack Obama thought it was and even though it's part of a laudable effort to generally reduce gun violence rates by restricting gun ownership rates.
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:21 AM on February 15, 2017 [6 favorites]


Trump's Cat: The cat in the box is both A RUSSIAN ASSET and NOT A RUSSIAN ASSET.

But it DID shit in the box.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 9:21 AM on February 15, 2017 [28 favorites]


Try to find beliefs that are even more fundamental and appeal to those, I guess.

We tried that, but they don't believe in science and math.
posted by Celsius1414 at 9:22 AM on February 15, 2017 [22 favorites]


How did you even deal with this level of denial of observable reality among the senior professional staff of Republicans

I mean, I don't personally think that you can really come to embrace a great many of the planks of the party platform without flat-out denying observable facts, so it's sort of part-and-parcel.
posted by uncleozzy at 9:23 AM on February 15, 2017 [7 favorites]


"Yes, well, you can make a picture look like anything," she said.

for a lot of people, an "argument" is constructing a sentence that refutes what you said according to its own internal logic, and whether or not it corresponds to any external truth is entirely besides the point and you're some kind of condescending smartass if you even expect that. smug aren't-I-clever smiles are optional but frequently accompany this rhetorical style.
posted by prize bull octorok at 9:23 AM on February 15, 2017 [44 favorites]


I would say like last March, but I guess if you mean the technical administration part, January 20th.

I see a Bannon faction and a Priebus faction which overlaps with the Mattis faction. Then there is probably a lower staff 'holy shit wtf is going on and what am I doing here' faction.
posted by Jalliah at 9:23 AM on February 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


The flat out denial of reality is once of the frightening parts for me. Forget facist coup, we're actually in the territory of Chinese Cultural Revolution here.
posted by Artw at 9:24 AM on February 15, 2017 [54 favorites]


I think unless things start actually breaking down then the hope that there's a bunch of faction infighting is just that: hope
posted by flatluigi at 9:26 AM on February 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


The first question for Trump and Netanyahu went to the Christian Broadcasting Network, because crazy people have taken over the world.
posted by zachlipton at 9:26 AM on February 15, 2017 [24 favorites]


Omarosa Manigault Produces Secret Recording of White House Dispute With Journalist

“She came in [to the White House press-staff area] hot,” hurling insults, Manigault told the Washington Post. “She came in with an attitude. For her to characterize me as the bully — I’m so glad we have this tape … because it’s ‘liar, liar, pants on fire.’”

Rather than resolving the matter, the recording raised new questions about how it was obtained. “I didn’t know she was taping it,” Ryan said. “This is about her trying to smear my name. This is freaking Nixonian.”

Manigault said “a colleague” made the tape, and claimed that the White House press staff regularly records interviews between officials and journalists. “We do it all the time,” she said. “When you come into [the press staff’s offices], you’re on the record.”


This....is this as Nixoney as it looks? Because this feels like a shitty reboot Nixon TV series that'll get canceled after the 3rd episode.
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:26 AM on February 15, 2017 [57 favorites]


“When you come into [the press staff’s offices], you’re on the record.”


um, if that's not explicitly stated, they're breaking the law, right?
posted by murphy slaw at 9:29 AM on February 15, 2017 [20 favorites]


Omarosa Manigault Produces Secret Recording of White House Dispute With Journalist

Given staggering termagant's story above, this is such a fucking amateur move by Manigault et al. All they have to do is lie about it, and enough people will believe them that the story will be eclipsed by the next day's shitpile. But now there's another fucking story.
posted by Etrigan at 9:29 AM on February 15, 2017 [45 favorites]


Been wondering how long before Manigault took a turn on stage.
posted by notyou at 9:30 AM on February 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


I think unless things start actually breaking down then the hope that there's a bunch of faction infighting is just that: hope

There is infighting. No hope needed. If you need proof, beyond the plethora of leaks about the fighting that's been going on since the beginning of the campaign. just go check out Briebart. Bannon has the knives out for Preibus right now. It's stunning how blatant and public he's making it.

Trump is also known for his management style of purposely pitting his people against each other. That's what he does. Doubt this would change.
posted by Jalliah at 9:30 AM on February 15, 2017 [9 favorites]


This....is this as Nixoney as it looks? Because this feels like a shitty reboot Nixon TV series that'll get canceled after the 3rd episode.

The MAGA crowd will love this CSI/JAG/SVU tale of the tape zoomenhance wankery, so long as it's directed at embarassing lamestream MSM fakenews REEEEEEEEporters. [see O'Keefe's 'investigations']

As soon as somone tapes a member of the administration doing something sketchy, they'll be screaming about dual-party recording consent and expectations of privacy.
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:31 AM on February 15, 2017 [10 favorites]


for a lot of people, an "argument" is constructing a sentence that refutes what you said according to its own internal logic,

Yeah, it doesn't even need internal logic. I've seen far too many discussions end with "that's my [1000% unsubstantiated, no effort even made] opinion and I have freedom of speech so you can't tell me I'm wrong." People really really do not understand the difference between an opinion, a feeling and a fact. Saying "that's my opinion" is seen as brilliant conversation-ending jujitsu. I just... How did these people graduate college (because I know a whole lot of them did)?
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:33 AM on February 15, 2017 [18 favorites]


Recording the press is legal, since D.C. has a one-party consent law for wiretapping. And to be honest, I'd probably want to record any convos I had with journalists if I were in a staffer's position, to make sure I wasn't misquoted.

But it's truly stupid to whip out an edited tape to try to prove your point, as it sounds like this one was.

Not to mention the fact that, yeah, the government wiretapping the press makes for really bad optics, so you probably don't want to play that card unless it's really crucial which, as Etrigan notes above, it wasn't in this case.

Another example of incompetence inflaming a minor problem into a bigger one, really.
posted by darkstar at 9:33 AM on February 15, 2017 [29 favorites]


How did these people graduate college (because I know a whole lot of them did?

"Study guides," radix malorum est.
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:34 AM on February 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


The thing that jumps out at me on the Manigault/Ryan story is "parts of the recording". A selective release doesn't really give any sort of context. Ryan might have gotten confrontational, but if only a fragment of the conversation's released, who can say why? It might well have been justified.
posted by jackbishop at 9:34 AM on February 15, 2017 [14 favorites]




Manigault is a public servant paid from taxpayer funds and yet she is literally behaving as if on a reality show: selective editing, clichés to camera.
posted by holgate at 9:36 AM on February 15, 2017 [23 favorites]


Jesus Christ. This is what amateur hour at the federal government looks like.
posted by biogeo at 9:37 AM on February 15, 2017 [28 favorites]


oh no mister trump, please don't fire the only one in your entire administration who can work with republican legislators. don't. stop.
posted by murphy slaw at 9:37 AM on February 15, 2017 [54 favorites]


Senator Richard Blumenthal (D-CT) and Senators Tom Udall (D-NM), Tammy Baldwin (D-WI), Tom Carper (D-DE), Edward J. Markey (D-MA), Sherrod Brown (D-OH), Dick Durbin (D-IL), Chris Van Hollen (D-MD), Cory A. Booker (D-NJ), Jeff Merkley (D-OR), and Patrick Leahy (D-VT) have sent a letter to Jefferson Sessions to demand that he appoint Special Counsel to conduct an independent investigation of the executive's ties to the Russian government. If one of these Senators is from your state, show them some love for this absolutely necessary call for investigation.

Some particularly choice bits:
The disclosure that General Flynn spoke repeatedly to Russian Ambassador Kislyak regarding the easing of US Sanctions on Russia, potentially undermining important U.S. foreign policy, reveals a stunning and potentially criminal dereliction of General Flynn's duty to our nation. The revelation of these secret calls by General Flynn arises amidst several serious investigations into what role Trump campaign officials played in the espionage Vladimir Putin conducted to aid [Popular Vote Loser] Trump in the election. Like General Flynn, you were an early endorser of [PVL] Trump and an active participant in the political campaign. Given these troubling circumstances, a Special Counsel is necessary to ensure strict impartiality and prevent any further harm to our national security until these issues are resolved. [...]

During your confirmation hearing you affirmed to Senator Blumenthal that for "serious questions, when they arise, the Attorney General should recuse himself under appropriate circumstances." Exactly such circumstances now exist. Appoint of a Special Counsel is needed, because of the severity of the allegations of collusion with the Russian government and your own statements during your confirmation hearing defending the [PVL] against exactly such claims. You said regarding these concerns, "Some of them, virtually all of them have been proven to be exaggerated or untrue."
This letter stops short of outright accusing Sessions of awareness or complicity in the Russian affair, but they basically state that he is unfit to conduct such an investigation. If you have the time, definitely worth checking out.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:37 AM on February 15, 2017 [80 favorites]


Some or all of us might yet not survive it, but I thank providence every day that when the fascist regime finally came to the USA, it was the stupidest one of all fucking time.
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:37 AM on February 15, 2017 [192 favorites]


The whole administration acts like they're on a reality show (when they're not acting like an ominous dystopian regime, that is.)
posted by overglow at 9:39 AM on February 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


Clinton is still in the woods

Serving as a metaphor for the Democrats?
posted by Joey Michaels at 9:40 AM on February 15, 2017 [8 favorites]


Some or all of us might yet not survive it, but I thank providence every day that when the fascist regime finally came to the USA, it was the stupidest one of all fucking time.

Fascshites. Nutzies.
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:40 AM on February 15, 2017 [7 favorites]


Trump was just asked about the rise of antisemitism in America. He's ranting about how many electoral votes he won and how great he's going to make the country, moving on to how many Jews he knows, at least in his family, says only "you're going to see a lot of love" and does not actually mention antisemitism in any way. Blows off the rest of the multi-part question completely.
posted by zachlipton at 9:41 AM on February 15, 2017 [23 favorites]


Former NSA intelligence analyst John Schindler on failing US president Donald Trump: "He will die in jail."

Do any crimes he might be convicted of carry the death penalty? (I imagine one of the few times one could be convicted of treason in the US is when one repeatedly monologued one's confession to Twitter.)
posted by acb at 9:41 AM on February 15, 2017


I thank providence every day that when the fascist regime finally came to the USA, it was the stupidest one of all fucking time.

It's true. I am not surprised at what they're trying to do, but I do confess to some mild surprise at *just how bad they are* at doing, well, anything. Don't get me wrong, I knew this would be an incompetent shitshow but... yeah. They're all really, really dumb with the partial exception of Kellyanne and maybe Reince, he's at least smart enough not to be spouting his mouth off everywhere.
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:42 AM on February 15, 2017 [8 favorites]


Serving as a metaphor for the Democrats?

They're still in the weeds, belly-crawling towards the treeline.
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:42 AM on February 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


Trump was just asked about the rise of antisemitism in America. He's ranting about how many electoral votes he won and how great he's going to make the country, moving on to how many Jews he knows, at least in his family, says only "you're going to see a lot of love" and does not actually mention antisemitism in any way. Blows off the rest of the multi-part question completely.

That's nice, because currently we're just seeing a lot of bomb threats. Maybe that's what he means by love.
posted by dinty_moore at 9:43 AM on February 15, 2017 [40 favorites]




In case you wanted to read the whole text of the bill, which can sometimes be very long and dry, with clearly thought through lots of nitty gritty inside-baseball level of detail, referencing other sections and modifying their text to be coherent, here's the full text of House bill 861, according to www.congress.gov:

To terminate the Environmental Protection Agency.
I addressed this in the last thread. In short, it's a stunt bill and you should just ignore it.
posted by phearlez at 9:44 AM on February 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


Former NSA intelligence analyst John Schindler on failing US president Donald Trump: "He will die in jail."

Do any crimes he might be convicted of carry the death penalty?


He's 70 years old and used to a life of unimaginable comfort and privilege. Any prison sentence will result in him dying there.
posted by Etrigan at 9:44 AM on February 15, 2017 [11 favorites]


And then after the President completely ignored the antisemitism question (clip), Netanyahu says "There is no greater supporter of Israel and no better friend to the Jewish people than President Trump." A friend would have answered a question about antisemitism by talking about antisemitism, not his electoral college victory.
posted by zachlipton at 9:45 AM on February 15, 2017 [21 favorites]


I can't believe reporters are still asking Trump multi-part questions or even ones with more than five or six words in them
posted by theodolite at 9:45 AM on February 15, 2017 [52 favorites]


does not actually mention antisemitism in any way

At first I thought, sure, wouldn't want to upset the Stormfront crowd. But then I realized that any question you ask of Trump he assumes is actually a question about himself. So a question about the rise of antisemitism is an accusation that he is an antisemite.

Or maybe he just feels that l'etat c'est moi.
posted by uncleozzy at 9:45 AM on February 15, 2017 [13 favorites]


I think the Trump radicals really underestimated the American government's small "c" conservative nature. Basically every power structure in the country is designed to resist radical action and protect the status quo at all costs. Most changes only come when the alternative is something far worse and then everyone gets panicked enough to do something about it.

The Legislative Branch is theoretically the most radical, as it's the closest to the people. But since the Senate holds staggered elections and is designed to be D-E-L-I-B-E-R-A-T-I-V-E at all times, it is really difficult to get things done there even under the best of circumstances (see Democrats 2009-2010).

The Judiciary receives almost all of its legitimacy from being conservative, from not taking bold actions, and from only doing things that the public really really support. Justice Roberts definitely knows this, it's probably why he refused to overturn the ACA. Overturning it would have really hurt the institution of the court. Just look at what Citizen's United and Bush v Gore have done to people's perception of the court. Too many more of those decisions and they'd lose the respect they need.

The Executive is, for all practical purposes two separate entities: political and bureaucratic. The political arm is the president himself and all the political appointees. And these people really do try to enact changes. It's their purpose, as they only get to be there at the pleasure of the President. But then there are the 2,000,000 federal employees who actually carry out all the day to day governing. These people are possibly the most conservative of them all. They will avoid change and uncertainty like the plague and want everything done in a correct and orderly fashion, in accordance with agency guidelines.

Finally, the media is almost another arm of government. Today it is so tangled up with corporate interests that media is usually just propaganda for business. But again, everyone in media and corporate America hates sudden, radical, poorly planned changes. It's bad for business.

If you look at how Obama governed, he made conscious decisions to attempt to involve all of these actors in his key decisions. Obamacare is the biggest example. At first involving corporations and trying to make the law palatable to Republicans seemed like poison, but now its coming back to be what keeps it alive. Companies around the country want no part in re-renegotiating like 15% of the economy. They just got done figuring it all the out and things are more or less working again.

Trump is governing like he can just bully everyone into getting what he wants. But everyone has very separate and well defined interests. And most of the time these interests do not align neatly. The customs and border agent who wants a crackdown on immigration probably isn't so excited about the hiring freeze. Yelling at judges probably just encourages them rule against you, in order to protect the judiciary as a whole. And being a not so secret Russian sleeper agent is scaring everyone to shit their pants.

The President has very few personal powers. He can veto bills and pardon people. Most of the other things he does require some other part of government to go along with him. Usually more than one part. To make new laws you need congress and the courts to agree, and then the media and the bureaucracy to go along with your execution of it. For EOs you need a federal workforce not in open revolt. To appoint people you need the support of the Senate. And on and on.

To Trump, this kind of compromise and deal making where you need to reach mutually acceptable arrangements instead of winner take all ones must be totally baffling. He can't even fire federal employees unless theres a damn good reason! Sad, right? The President really is super powerful. But it requires subtle, persuasive, institutional, manipulative power that Trump has absolutely zero understanding of.
posted by Glibpaxman at 9:45 AM on February 15, 2017 [91 favorites]


have sent a letter to Jefferson Sessions to demand that he appoint Special Counsel to conduct an independent investigation of the executive's ties to the Russian government.

There's no way Jefferson Beauregard Sessions will do so voluntarily. I honestly believe he'd rather go to his grave in an attempt to prevent such an investigator from ever being appointed, and be remembered a martyr. (What is it they call the Civil War down in Dixie? The "Noble Cause"? Like that.)
posted by adamgreenfield at 9:46 AM on February 15, 2017 [6 favorites]


Maybe that's what he means by love.

He means 'I'm going to let Jared Kushner decide Stuff About The Jews and that's going to fix everything, at least for Jews Who Aren't Just Haters. Plus Mnuchin, so fuck off and leave me alone already.'
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:47 AM on February 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


I've seen the "treason" thing talked about in a lot of places. My understanding is that treason specifically requires giving aid and comfort to our "enemies." Russia is technically not currently on our enemies list, as we maintain diplomatic relations with them. They're on our frenemies list I guess but the treason laws don't say anything about frenemies.
posted by KathrynT at 9:47 AM on February 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


me, quoting an article: "(Wired has a guide to the technical aspects of keeping your data safe.)"

thebotanyofsouls: Can you link that Wired article?

A Guide To Getting Past Customs With Your Digital Privacy Intact
posted by cybercoitus interruptus at 9:47 AM on February 15, 2017 [12 favorites]


I can't believe reporters are still asking Trump multi-part questions

Maybe people still hope he'll blow a gasket eventually.
posted by Namlit at 9:47 AM on February 15, 2017


Trump: "We will never forget what the Jewish people have endured*"

*Except for Holocaust Remembrance Day. That's Bannon's special day of celebration.
posted by Talez at 9:48 AM on February 15, 2017 [27 favorites]


And then after the President completely ignored the antisemitism question, Netanyahu says "There is no greater supporter of Israel and no better friend to the Jewish people than President Trump." A friend would have answered a question about antisemitism by talking about antisemitism, not his electoral college victory.

The silence here on Netanyahu's part is deafening to this leftist Jew's ears.
posted by zombieflanders at 9:48 AM on February 15, 2017 [30 favorites]


i assume chaffetz is going to give trump a slap on the wrist about mar-a-lago security to distract from his claim that flynn's ouster has settled the russia issue.

lol the great part is trump is too stupid to take the obvious slap on the wrist and will probably call for chaffetz to lose all leadership roles or something
posted by DynamiteToast at 9:49 AM on February 15, 2017 [7 favorites]


Blumenthal is mine. I call and tweet him every day with encouraging words. I'm very proud of my reps from CT. Hines is holding a town hall next week and me and my peeps are planning to flood him with love.
posted by archimago at 9:49 AM on February 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


He's 70 years old and used to a life of unimaginable comfort and privilege.

It's hard to imagine someone more entitled, spoiled, and clueless.
posted by ZeusHumms at 9:50 AM on February 15, 2017 [9 favorites]


The firearms and mental health thing makes me recall Buck v. Bell, wherein in 1927 the Supreme Court of these United States decided that people with mental health diagnoses and other types of unfit people couldn't be trusted to have children and could be compulsorily sterilized if it was in the interests of the state. The latest compulsory sterilization Wikipedia mentions was in 1981 by the Oregon Board of Eugenics, though I don't know how long the practice was associated with Buck v. Bell.

So it seems like a potentially-dystopian-enough thing to discuss in a potus45 thread, as a pretext for denying constitutional rights.
posted by XMLicious at 9:50 AM on February 15, 2017 [7 favorites]


have sent a letter to Jefferson Sessions to demand that he appoint Special Counsel...

Why isn't every Democratic Senator on that list? Does their absence indicate that they don't support the idea, or is it possibly just logistical? I'm trying to decide if I need to call Warren.
posted by diogenes at 9:50 AM on February 15, 2017 [6 favorites]


He's 70 years old and used to a life of unimaginable comfort and privilege.

We think this, but the reality is a lot tawdrier and sadder than you can imagine. I once — true story — ate lunch with him at his desk. It was damp, sagging take-out tuna fish sandwiches and room-temperature Diet Cokes.

I've et cafeteria food in not-well-funded public schools, and MREs beyond number, and I truly cannot imagine even privatized, lowest-bidder prison food is any worse than what Donald Trump offered me.
posted by adamgreenfield at 9:51 AM on February 15, 2017 [96 favorites]


The silence here on Netanyahu's part is deafening to this leftist Jew's ears.

Bibi's endurance is one of the examples that makes me less hopeful about dislodging Trump. I know there are a million differences, but it still unsettles me as I watch them together.
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:51 AM on February 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


I don't get it. If Bibi doesn't want to be treated unfairly with one-sided actions, why does Bibi keep taking unfair and one-sided actions?
posted by Talez at 9:51 AM on February 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


Chaffetz launches probe into Trump administration's handling of info at Mar-a-lago

I think it's pretty clear (to any but the most determined to spin, spin, spin) that this is a deliberate choice of the one thing that can pretty easily pass inspection without negative impact. Chaffetz investigates and asks, the Trump admin sticks to their "nothing classified was shown or discussed in the open" position and, since that's almost certainly not something they can disprove - investigation closed.

No blowback on the President, Chaffetz gets to claim he looks into "the important stuff."
posted by phearlez at 9:51 AM on February 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


okay adamgreenfield, we need the full story of how you ate vending-machine lunch with Donald Trump.
posted by murphy slaw at 9:52 AM on February 15, 2017 [65 favorites]


have sent a letter to Jefferson Sessions to demand that he appoint Special Counsel...

Why isn't every Democratic Senator on that list? Does their absence indicate that they don't support the idea, or is it possibly just logistical? I'm trying to decide if I need to call Warren.


Perhaps they're on the same committee.
posted by ZeusHumms at 9:52 AM on February 15, 2017


The firearms and mental health thing makes me recall Buck v. Bell, wherein in 1927 the Supreme Court of these United States decided that people with mental health diagnoses ... could be compulsorily sterilized

Well, that escalated quickly.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 9:53 AM on February 15, 2017 [9 favorites]


I truly cannot imagine even privatized, lowest-bidder prison food is any worse than what Donald Trump offered me.

Allow me to introduce you to Aramark.
posted by Etrigan at 9:54 AM on February 15, 2017 [23 favorites]


staggering termagant, that was physically painful to read. Truly, America, we have the elected officials we deserve.

Sarcasm aside, this conversation you're relaying is eerily similar to what I got from my last few attempts to engage with Drumpf defenders in person, and they tend to come off as perfectly sincere, though the level of imperviousness to new information varied. I currently cannot understand this thing that masquerades as modern { conservatism || republicanism } except in terms of "Fuck you, got mine!", "Gotta keep the undesirables down!", or "I'm too stupid to breathe without regular reminders and that's why I believe this bullshit."

I *want* to take a look outside my bubble sometimes, because perspective is good. Unfortunately, every last time that I do, all I can see is some form of bigotry, derpery, or bigoted derpery. Can anyone point me at anything resembling a principled defense of any of this bullshit or am I doing well to continue to assume it doesn't exist?
posted by Enturbulated at 9:54 AM on February 15, 2017 [8 favorites]


The transcript of Trump not answering the anti-Semitism question (or any of the other parts of the question, it was an Israeli reporter who apparently didn't learn you can only ask questions at a "see spot run" level).
posted by zachlipton at 9:55 AM on February 15, 2017 [9 favorites]


We think this, but the reality is a lot tawdrier and sadder than you can imagine. I once — true story — ate lunch with him at his desk. It was damp, sagging take-out tuna fish sandwiches and room-temperature Diet Cokes.


Seriously, you gotta tell this story.

Also, I'm pleased that today I'm going for Indian street food, and I will enjoy my meal much more than the president does.
posted by suelac at 9:56 AM on February 15, 2017 [9 favorites]


I've seen the "treason" thing talked about in a lot of places. My understanding is that treason specifically requires giving aid and comfort to our "enemies."

Yeah, it's only light treason.

There does appear to be substantial wiggle room for the courts in the legal definition of treason. And I wouldn't want to see a return to the Bush era where some folks (not in the courts or the DoJ, thank Zombie Washington) wanted "aid and comfort" to encompass "criticizing the President".

So I don't think we need to charge Trump with treason per se, but I'm pretty sure we can find some high crimes and misdemeanors he's guilty of if we keep looking into this Russia thing.
posted by tobascodagama at 9:57 AM on February 15, 2017 [4 favorites]



I've seen the "treason" thing talked about in a lot of places. My understanding is that treason specifically requires giving aid and comfort to our "enemies." Russia is technically not currently on our enemies list, as we maintain diplomatic relations with them. They're on our frenemies list I guess but the treason laws don't say anything about frenemies.


I've seen people calling it light treason, or treason light. I like this because it describes actions that may not fall into the legal definition of treason but are still questionable and sure as heck sound treason like.
posted by Jalliah at 9:58 AM on February 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


I've seen people calling it light treason, or treason light. I like this because it describes actions that may not fall into the legal definition of treason but are still questionable and sure as heck sound treason like.

(Also it's an Arrested Development reference.)
posted by tobascodagama at 9:58 AM on February 15, 2017 [32 favorites]


only 10% of the calories of regular treason
posted by murphy slaw at 9:59 AM on February 15, 2017 [12 favorites]


> you can only ask questions at a "see spot run" level

"Who's Spot? What kind of name is that? Is Spot running in 2020? Where's Reince? Reince, get me information on this 'Spot'. We'll destroy his career."
posted by tonycpsu at 10:00 AM on February 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


So I don't think we need to charge Trump with treason per se, but I'm pretty sure we can find some high crimes and misdemeanors he's guilty of if we keep looking into this Russia thing.

In terms of impeachment, it's quite simply up to the Congress. There's no judicial review.

They could probably just decide to crack open the campaign finances and the ongoing emoluments and get rid of him for self-dealing.
posted by snuffleupagus at 10:00 AM on February 15, 2017 [7 favorites]


(Also it's an Arrested Development reference.)

Cool. I didn't know that. I'm probably one a very few who has yet to watch the whole series. Only seen a few episodes here and there.
posted by Jalliah at 10:00 AM on February 15, 2017


A Guide To Getting Past Customs With Your Digital Privacy Intact
posted by cybercoitus interruptus


Can I post my first "Eponysterical" post here?
posted by martin q blank at 10:01 AM on February 15, 2017 [29 favorites]


>The transcript of Trump not answering the anti-Semitism question

Metafilter: a lot of bad things have been taking place over a long period of time.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 10:02 AM on February 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


Can anyone point me at anything resembling a principled defense of any of this bullshit or am I doing well to continue to assume it doesn't exist?

During the election I followed Ben Shapiro on Twitter for a bit after hearing he was one of the mythical principled conservatives that could advance reasoned arguments in favor of this stuff. I unfollowed a few days later because of dumb partisan hackery and nonsense, so no I honestly don't think it does exist.

I also asked my conservative friends on facebook (and only my conservative friends to avoid any potential pile-ons) to either defend this administration, tell me any positives they can think of in the first couple of weeks or just how they're feeling right now about all this and...crickets. (It's an admittedly small group of conservative friends on there and a few of them had good excuses for not being on facebook these days, but I was expecting somebody to say something)
posted by TwoWordReview at 10:02 AM on February 15, 2017 [7 favorites]


One of the commenters on that anti-semitism question transcript nailed it - the reporter mentioned Trump's "victory" as part of their setup, so that's the word Trump heard and ran with. That he managed to remember that Jews were involved in time to add some to his answer seems like a small triumph, I guess.
posted by Mchelly at 10:03 AM on February 15, 2017 [9 favorites]


What the fuck, over Omarosa.
posted by emelenjr at 10:03 AM on February 15, 2017


I am quite certain that shitgibbon supporters think this (Flynn and so forth) is no big deal exactly because they were convinced by Giuliani et al that Benghazi and the emails were a big deal and yet nothing came of it, therefore it's a matter of confirmation bias that nothing the press says is serious anymore and their great leader can do no wrong.
posted by OHenryPacey at 10:04 AM on February 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


i think the closest thing to "principled defense" of traditional conservatism in the popular media is professional mealymouth david brooks, who papers over horrific social policy with bromides about the power of american ingenuity etc.

and even he is calling bullshit on the entire trump adminstration
posted by murphy slaw at 10:05 AM on February 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


I just want to get this straight. After Trump's answer about Flynn today in the joint conference with Bibi, his official position is this:

1. Flynn is a great guy who did nothing wrong.
2. But the fake media published illegal leaks about Flynn.
3. So I fired him.

Sounds good to me! Nope, nothing screwy about that story at all.
posted by dis_integration at 10:05 AM on February 15, 2017 [107 favorites]


That he managed to remember that Jews were involved in time to add some to his answer seems like a small triumph, I guess.

Small triumph of the will, one could say.
posted by Celsius1414 at 10:05 AM on February 15, 2017 [38 favorites]


re: that non-answer in response to the rise in anti-Semitism: Trump is a really bad p-zombie or a really good chatbot, isn't he? Those were a bunch of words that said absolutely nothing and frequently didn't even fit together as logical sentences. It's like that every time the man says anything. It's unclear if he even understood the question or comprehends anything.
posted by byanyothername at 10:06 AM on February 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


today on meet the press: Is Trump Conscious?
posted by murphy slaw at 10:07 AM on February 15, 2017 [16 favorites]


Small triumph of the will, one could say.

Damn it hurt to favorite that. I miss the other universe where that sort of joke was inappropriate rather than funny-cuz-it's-true.
posted by Mchelly at 10:07 AM on February 15, 2017 [14 favorites]


Well, my Jewish friends on Facebook are just about the angriest I've ever seen them.
posted by schmod at 10:08 AM on February 15, 2017 [13 favorites]


During the election I followed Ben Shapiro on Twitter for a bit after hearing he was one of the mythical principled conservatives that could advance reasoned arguments in favor of this stuff. I unfollowed a few days later because of dumb partisan hackery and nonsense, so no I honestly don't think it does exist.

Shapiro's one of those guys like Matt Walsh and Stephen Crowder who desperately wants on the Wingnut Welfare train but is too obviously a sad sack and too insufficiently connected to get a ticket.
posted by Pope Guilty at 10:09 AM on February 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


The Daily Show has produced a Chrome extension that displays the President's tweets as a child's scribble: MakeTrumpTweetsEightAgain.com
posted by zachlipton at 10:09 AM on February 15, 2017 [21 favorites]


It is, indeed, rare for somebody to publicly stand by the person they just fired, yes.
posted by zachlipton at 10:10 AM on February 15, 2017 [12 favorites]


Somebody (I wanna say John Oliver?) recently suggested that Donald Trump doesn't understand the idea of words or things the same way we do. Like these things only exist and mean things when he wills them into being. Which... Jesus how do you even deal with that? Personally I'm coming around to the idea that he can't read, Sam Bee was onto something.
posted by Glibpaxman at 10:12 AM on February 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


CNN is reporting that Puzder is going down, Senate Republicans have urged the White House to withdraw the nomination before it comes to that.
posted by zachlipton at 10:13 AM on February 15, 2017 [41 favorites]


I just want to get this straight.

I was just sitting here pondering that too. Trump can't even keep his story consistent between what he told his spokesman to say and his own tweets.
posted by diogenes at 10:13 AM on February 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


I miss the other universe where that sort of joke was inappropriate rather than funny-cuz-it's-true.

I miss the universe where Godwin's Law remained on the books as the Nazis gradually receded into the pandemonium of monsters of distant history, alongside Napoleon, Genghis Khan, Vlad the Impaler and the Viking raids. In that universe, in the “shitgibbon” thread, there might be an observation of "-hitler" becoming a compound-expletive particle, as in “you utter wankhitler”.
posted by acb at 10:15 AM on February 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


It would not break my heart to see a cabinet nominee get voted down on the floor of the Senate because the PVL is too stubborn to admit he can't win the battle.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 10:16 AM on February 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


Somebody (I wanna say John Oliver?) recently suggested that Donald Trump doesn't understand the idea of words or things the same way we do. Like these things only exist and mean things when he wills them into being. Which... Jesus how do you even deal with that? Personally I'm coming around to the idea that he can't read, Sam Bee was onto something.

I'm thinking a combo of dementia and learned laziness.
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:17 AM on February 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


he told his spokesman to say

i believe this begs the question
posted by murphy slaw at 10:17 AM on February 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


I'm thinking a combo of dementia and learned laziness.

it's like listening to my grandfather give a book report on a book he hasn't read
posted by murphy slaw at 10:18 AM on February 15, 2017 [10 favorites]


I miss the universe where Godwin's Law remained on the books as the Nazis gradually receded into the pandemonium of monsters of distant history, alongside Napoleon, Genghis Khan, Vlad the Impaler and the Viking raids.

That universe never existed and was accessible only to people who either couldn't or wouldn't see the extreme right taking over the GOP and infecting online spaces.
posted by Pope Guilty at 10:20 AM on February 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


The firearms and mental health thing makes me recall Buck v. Bell, wherein in 1927 the Supreme Court of these United States decided that people with mental health diagnoses ... could be compulsorily sterilized

Along those line, The New Republic posted this article today Trump Has Turned the GOP Into the Party of Eugenics.
posted by peeedro at 10:21 AM on February 15, 2017 [7 favorites]


I've et cafeteria food in not-well-funded public schools, and MREs beyond number, and I truly cannot imagine even privatized, lowest-bidder prison food is any worse than what Donald Trump offered me.

It's really struck me that almost no one in this administration seems to get much use out of being rich other than the sheer "I can be an asshole" aspect. Bannon is a man like an unmade bed - he's obviously not doing anything fun with his money for normal values of fun. Trump can't even get a well-fitting, flattering suit. At least Conway had that horrible seventies-mod inauguration day outfit that she must have enjoyed in an ordinary, human way. But they all seem to have terrible clothes, eat awful food, have empty personal lives, not have any real cultural interests other than, like, Nazi-ism, etc.

Honestly, one thing I was thinking last night was that there's a built-in problem with being a leader in a large, crass, imperial state - it's not very fun and it requires you to lie a lot and believe/pretend to believe a bunch of garbage, so ordinary people, particularly intelligent ones, just don't want to do it. Obama, for all his failings on drones, etc, was an exception to this rule - but he was about as progressive and openly intelligent a president as you can have in this great nation.

I was chatting with someone and we both agreed that you could literally pick any six or seven people from our social circle and we could get more done than Trump et al simply because we have more critical thinking skills and would be able to take advice...and then I started to think about all the really smart people I've met over the years. Some lawyers, academics, scientists, a few freelance radicals and writers...those who might consider political office would certainly never want to make it their primary career or to work in DC.

I don't think this is an insoluble problem, but it's pretty deep-rooted - you've almost always got to be or seem dumb and crass to get over politically, and if you've gotten any meaningful education about the violent, unpleasant history of this nation you have to pretend you didn't and spout a lot of patriotic garbage. And that takes a toll on anyone with any kind of complex interiority.

Trump is, of course, the apotheosis of someone without complex interiority, and even he doesn't seem to get much of a kick out of being President.
posted by Frowner at 10:21 AM on February 15, 2017 [124 favorites]


Well, certainly as recently as 2014 I wasn't using the word "nazi" on a daily basis, or worrying that my usage of it had become distinctly non-hyperbolic.
posted by Artw at 10:23 AM on February 15, 2017 [23 favorites]


Colbert's Anti-Trump Experiment (Washington Post)
Absent another survey of late-night audiences, it is unclear what exactly has reversed Colbert’s fortunes. Are liberal viewers tuning in in greater numbers? Or is Colbert bringing in conservatives who were uncomfortable with Trump during the campaign and who feel unnerved by his fledgling administration?
posted by kingless at 10:23 AM on February 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


My cubicle-mate tells me that we live in a world where Ashton Kutcher is blowing a kiss to John McCain, because Michael Fucking Kelso is testifying to a United States Senate committee about human trafficking and sex slavery, and this isn't even in the goddamn top five of weird shit going on today in DC.
posted by Etrigan at 10:26 AM on February 15, 2017 [15 favorites]


I'm thinking a combo of dementia and learned laziness.

Don't forget narcissism. My grandfather was a narcissist and he would always say he had "discovered" this, that, or the other thing, not in a normal way like "Oh, I had to run an errand and just happened into this great little restaurant," but in a truly off-putting way that sounded like he believed the thing had not existed before he observed it or thought of it.
posted by Squeak Attack at 10:27 AM on February 15, 2017 [15 favorites]


Assuming that Donald doesn't last the whole four years -- what would his library look like?

Someone quoted this earlier on a different matter, but his library should have this engraved on the wall:
This place is not a place of honor.

No highly esteemed deed is commemorated here.

Nothing valued is here.
posted by mmoncur at 10:27 AM on February 15, 2017 [44 favorites]


Allow me to introduce you to Aramark.

Oh, I've spent enough of my life in Philly to know them very well indeed. Have you met their European cousin Sodexho?

okay adamgreenfield, we need the full story of how you ate vending-machine lunch with Donald Trump.

OK, that's a fair cop. I see I left myself open to this. Moderators please feel free to delete if this is the derail I feel like it must be.

It's the day of my graduation from NYU in 1989. Under my purple robes, I am wearing a Missing Foundation t-shirt, old BDU pants and engineer boots, and that is the outfit in which I stride forth to meet my family on the other side of Washington Square Park when the formalities of graduation are done. This would be my mom, my dad, my sister and my grandfather, and I figure we'll all go to some fancy place in Little Italy for a celebratory lunch of some sort.

This is why I'm surprised when my mom, my sister and my grandfather peel off immediately after congratulating me, leaving me with my dad, who's wearing the shit-eatingist of all the shit-eating grins you've ever seen. He bundles me into a cab he's just hailed, and doesn't say a word except "56th and Fifth" to the driver.

I'm all, like, WTF? I know New York below 23rd Street like the proverbial back of my hand, but I virtually never wander above 34th. There simply isn't anything at 56th and Fifth that signifies to me. The intersection means nothing. And then we pull up in front of Trump Tower.

This is when I truly begin to wonder what my dad is up to. In 1989 as in 2017, there's not a thing inside that building that is relevant or of interest or appeal to me in any way. I'm thinking that the joke really has gone too far now — that surely at any minute, we'll rejoin the rest of my family and have a nice hearty chicken parmesan lunch somewhere middle-class "nice" — but really, it's just getting started.

We cut across the lobby to a security desk, and my dad tells the guy working behind it, "Mr. Greenfield for Mr. Trump." And this is when I understand. See, my father has at this point already sued Donald Trump — don't ask me what for, because I surely do not remember — and beaten him. And as, what, part of his settlement? he's extracted this promise, arranged this little get-together. We're going to meet the beast in his den.

And make no mistake: he is already a beast. This was during the time of the Central Park Five, and though the young men detained as suspects have not yet been exonerated, nobody is howling for their blood more loudly than Donald John Trump. Already legendary as a tacky, shallow arriviste whose contempt for women rolls off him in waves, in 1989 he is also in the process of cementing his name as a racist shit-disturber of the first fucking order.

But this is an aside. The private elevator whisks us to his private floor, where an otherwise forgettable majordomo reminds us that "Mr. Trump does not shake hands." And then, without any further warning, we are in The Presence.

The first words that Donald John Trump ever speaks to me are these: "So, your dad tells me you think I'm the devil." Now the man is larger than I thought. He does, or did in 1989, have an aura to him — a gross physical charisma that pained me to acknowledge, but which was a real thing in the room between us. I am not a large man. I am a middle-class kid whose father is a litigator, wearing the t-shirt of an anarchist squatter industrial band notorious on the Lower East Side, feeling whipsawed by the moment. I mumble something about it not being as bad as all that, surely. And we sit down to lunch.

Now I've taken up entirely too much time and space here already, in what is a fast-moving, processor-intensive thread, and so you'll just have to ask me privately for details of the conversation that followed. They are, I promise you, germane to the 2016 election and the world-historical shitshow we now happen to be living through; I feel like I was vouchsafed in that hour insights into Donald John Trump's personality that I'm still relying upon, in interpreting the things I read here every day. But yes, that is how I happened to have soggy tuna fish sandwiches at the desk of history's greatest monster on the day I graduated from college.
posted by adamgreenfield at 10:27 AM on February 15, 2017 [416 favorites]


OK, that response to the anti-semitism question was literally a jaw-dropper for me. I shouldn't be surprised at anything he says anymore, but... good lord.
posted by azpenguin at 10:32 AM on February 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


Bannon is a man like an unmade bed - he's obviously not doing anything fun with his money for normal values of fun.

Well, he's obviously spending van loads of it on vast vats of alcohol and then sleeping in his clothes face-down on his carpet, which might be fun if you're an alcoholic.
posted by Squeak Attack at 10:32 AM on February 15, 2017 [23 favorites]


Now I've taken up entirely too much time and space here already, in what is a fast-moving, processor-intensive thread, and so you'll just have to ask me privately for details of the conversation that followed.

dammit if we hadn't done the martini derail there'd be room for the rest of the story
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:35 AM on February 15, 2017 [72 favorites]


might be fun if you're an alcoholic

in my experience, most people are alcoholics because they no longer know how to have fun
posted by murphy slaw at 10:35 AM on February 15, 2017 [24 favorites]


The penalty for light treason is light death.
posted by guiseroom at 10:36 AM on February 15, 2017 [8 favorites]


The official story is that Michael Flynn was fired because he lied to Mike Pence. Since we now know the entire administration leadership also lied to Mike Pence, for weeks, no doubt they will now resign en masse. I'm excited!
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:36 AM on February 15, 2017 [41 favorites]


What would happen to an IRS person who leaked? Obviously they'd be fired, but would they go to prison?

$5000 fine or up to 5 years in prison.


We could raise $5k in 20 minutes.
posted by AFABulous at 10:37 AM on February 15, 2017 [37 favorites]


The private elevator whisks us to his private floor, where an otherwise forgettable majordomo reminds us that "Mr. Trump does not shake hands."

That's certainly true.
Whatever failing US president Trump does to those unfortunate enough to meet him, you cannot really describe it as "shaking hands."
posted by sour cream at 10:39 AM on February 15, 2017 [17 favorites]


We could raise $5k in 20 minutes.

I'd be shocked if it took more than thirty seconds.
posted by prefpara at 10:39 AM on February 15, 2017 [18 favorites]


We could raise $5k in 20 minutes.

Crowdfunding 5 years of federal prison is a bit harder, though.
posted by tobascodagama at 10:40 AM on February 15, 2017 [29 favorites]


Details of Rand Paul, Mark Sanford Obamacare replacement bill

I feel sick to my stomach.
posted by prefpara at 10:40 AM on February 15, 2017 [10 favorites]


Crowdfunding 5 years of federal prison is a bit harder, though.

I give it 2 more years of our dystopia-trajectory until we can.
posted by Rust Moranis at 10:41 AM on February 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


The penalty for light treason is light death.

The penalty is petite mort, just ask General Petraeus. Hey-o!
posted by cell divide at 10:41 AM on February 15, 2017 [77 favorites]



I'd choose Bannon over Trump for a soggy sandwich lunch if I had the choice. Both of them would be ideal. Not eating tuna though. I don't eat fish.
posted by Jalliah at 10:42 AM on February 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


We could raise $5k in 20 minutes.

Crowdfunding 5 years of federal prison is a bit harder, though.


I got a basement he can use for a coupla weeks.
posted by Etrigan at 10:42 AM on February 15, 2017 [8 favorites]


It's really struck me that almost no one in this administration seems to get much use out of being rich other than the sheer "I can be an asshole" aspect...But they all seem to have terrible clothes, eat awful food, have empty personal lives, not have any real cultural interests other than, like, Nazi-ism, etc.

So much this, Frowner. So much this. It's true of Mar-a-Lago as well. Compared to the places where even moderately wealthy Chinese or Korean businessmen (and I do mean men) spend their time, let alone Emiratis, it's not even nice by its own grotesque metrics.
posted by adamgreenfield at 10:43 AM on February 15, 2017 [47 favorites]


The bill would also allow people and small business owners to band together through professional associations to purchase insurance, with the goal of decreasing the cost through greater numbers. And it would permit insurers to sell policies across state lines.


huh, what if we gathered these groups of people together into some kind of exchange?
posted by murphy slaw at 10:43 AM on February 15, 2017 [25 favorites]


Now I've taken up entirely too much time and space here already, in what is a fast-moving, processor-intensive thread, and so you'll just have to ask me privately for details of the conversation that followed. They are, I promise you, germane to the 2016 election and the world-historical shitshow we now happen to be living through

There has to be a market somewhere that would love your full story. I mean, I know we would here, but why give it away for free?
posted by nubs at 10:43 AM on February 15, 2017 [9 favorites]


I feel sick to my stomach.

Luckily, it'll take several months, at least, before OCare is replaced with RandCare (Don'tCare?), so you've got some time to get better.
posted by notyou at 10:44 AM on February 15, 2017 [9 favorites]


3.3 months after winning the presidency and securing both houses of Congress, seven years after vowing to repeal Obamacare, and they have two paragraphs' worth of ideas about a replacement.
posted by radicalawyer at 10:44 AM on February 15, 2017 [70 favorites]


The Vice President traditionally has an interest in being nice to the President, in the hope that the President will continue to bestow power and influence on the Vice President and make his job more valuable than a "pitcher of warm piss". But if, as it appears, Pence is receiving NOTHING from Trump, not even a heads-up that there may be a scandal about his making false statements on the news, that motivation disappears. Pence's sole motivation might instead be to subtly undermine Trump so that he can become President Pence. Based on the Pence camp's contradiction of the White House regarding the Flynn timeline, I think this is already happening. Pence and his allies could be the source of much of the leaking we are seeing.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:45 AM on February 15, 2017 [10 favorites]


They'll have to get to 60 votes in the Senate. Right now I don't see that happening.
posted by azpenguin at 10:45 AM on February 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


From prefpara's link:

It would protect those with pre-existing conditions as long as they had continuous coverage.

So miss one premium, and you, cancer survivor, become uninsurable????? Forever??? Unless an employer takes pity on you???????

Excuse me while I fucking throw up in my mouth, on my desk, and on fucking Rand Paul and Mark Sanford.
posted by joyceanmachine at 10:46 AM on February 15, 2017 [68 favorites]


I feel sick to my stomach

Indeed. I'm pretty sure that the pre-existing conditions clause in that article is the one we had pre-Obamacare. You're fine if you never go without coverage, but as soon as you do, BAM. That two-decade-old asthma attack will mean you never see a doctor again.
posted by suelac at 10:46 AM on February 15, 2017 [23 favorites]


DontCare is the best name for any Republican ObamaCare replacement and I'm going to use that everywhere. Thanks notyou!
posted by localhuman at 10:46 AM on February 15, 2017 [76 favorites]


It's true of Mar-a-Lago as well. Compared to the places where even moderately wealthy Chinese or Korean businessmen (and I do mean men) spend their time, let alone Emiratis, it's not even nice by its own grotesque metrics.

It's a pity, because I was kind of envisioning it as a cool setting for The Americans: The Next Generation
posted by nubs at 10:46 AM on February 15, 2017 [6 favorites]


They only need 50 votes if they use budget reconciliation. That severely limits what they can do, and it may be difficult to meet the 50 vote threshold among the GOP caucus anyway.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:46 AM on February 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


The ACA "replacement" would also prohibit using HSA funds for an elective abortion. Meaning you can't use your own money from your own savings account to pay for your own healthcare.

I propose prohibiting the use of any 401(k) disbursements on vasectomies and viagra.
posted by melissasaurus at 10:49 AM on February 15, 2017 [66 favorites]


Pence's sole motivation might instead be to subtly undermine Trump so that he can become President Pence.

"Might"? You're giving him far more credit than I have been since he signed on. This was so clearly his endgame that he might as well put "Vice" in erasable ink on his business cards.
posted by Etrigan at 10:51 AM on February 15, 2017 [10 favorites]


To Trump, this kind of compromise and deal making where you need to reach mutually acceptable arrangements instead of winner take all ones must be totally baffling. He can't even fire federal employees unless theres a damn good reason! Sad, right? The President really is super powerful. But it requires subtle, persuasive, institutional, manipulative power that Trump has absolutely zero understanding of.

A couple of months ago my husband and I were driving around and stopped to get gas. From the gas station, we saw a homeless man who looked like he had been attacked or in a fight (wondering around confused , blood on his nose and shirt). He looked scared. We gave him some food and money, and called the police because we were worried. This was kind of a sketchy part of town, and we didn't want to leave the guy alone, so we sat and waited. The police arrived like 3 minutes later, with an ambulance. The paramedics sat down with the man and very kindly convinced him to let them help, the police asked us a couple of questions, and they informed us about a nearby shelter that would take him, and then very kindly escorted man to the shelter.

When everyone left, we looked at each other in awe and my husband said something like fuck me, we're in a developed country! and we laughed and laughed. We are both immigrants and I mean I can't even begin to tell you the long, long list of things from the police arriving so fast to the existence of homeless shelters that absolutely would not have happened this way in the countries where we were born. I know there are issues with the very existence of homelessness, and police work, etc. But just the fact that systems are in place, even if flawed was so surprising to me.

So these past few days I have been feeling the same way about our government. I have never been a particularly patriotic person but having immigrated to the US as an adult and being used to pretty much every other president ending up in prison in my former country, trump's attempt to play POTUS has showed me that even if there is room for improvement (and there is), the US system of government is way, way stronger than I realized.

I know that for those who were born here things look terrible, but man, part of me is scared of course, and part of me is in fucking awe. I can't imagine what an autocratic narcissist like trump would do in my country of birth. It would be like Philippines I suppose or worse even. Yet here, trump is trying, but nothing seems to stick. People speak up, and the media has issues, but it's there. I really appreciate this, and I feel so proud and so lucky that I had the chance to move to the US. In fact, even the level of protests, and the activism, and the separation of branches that makes things intentionally complicated and puts safeguards in case people don't do their jobs. I know it sounds naïve but while I have completely given up on my country of origin's ability to govern itself without major, disruptive, disgusting corruption, I am really hopeful about things here.

You guys, as scary as things seem right now, this immigrant can tell you that a crisis is when you prove the strength of your systems. I am not trying to dismiss the issues (and I am scared as well, and I think there will be some long-term consequences), but we are holding up, and we're making things hard for trump and his people.

These past few days, I have been overwhelmed with this patriotic confidence that I never, ever felt before. Trump, you could have totally gotten away with all that filthy corruption in many other countries in this world. But here you will not, and fuck you for even thinking you could.
posted by Tarumba at 10:51 AM on February 15, 2017 [318 favorites]


prohibiting the use of any 401(k) disbursements on... viagra

hahahahaHAHAhahah you're a funny one, melissasaurus
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:52 AM on February 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


Meaning you can't use your own money from your own savings account to pay for your own healthcare.

I propose prohibiting the use of any 401(k) disbursements on vasectomies and viagra.


Not disagreeing with the idea, but an even closer parallel would be prohibiting the use of 401(k) disbursements for paying living expenses during retirement.
posted by nickmark at 10:58 AM on February 15, 2017 [12 favorites]


I propose prohibiting the use of any 401(k) disbursements on vasectomies and viagra.

Well, since they're just the host for sperm, I'm sure they'll have no problem with that.
posted by Celsius1414 at 11:00 AM on February 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


I'm surprised Puzder is where the line ends up drawn. He's not a good choice by any stretch of the imagination, but he sets more people's alarms off than, say, DeVos does? I don't get it.
posted by jackbishop at 11:02 AM on February 15, 2017 [12 favorites]


One of the emerging stories in Canada is the sudden influx of refugees walking from the US into Canada to seek asylum because of fear over the Trump administration.

CBC did a report last night on it; it was heartbreaking and interesting.
posted by nubs at 11:03 AM on February 15, 2017 [12 favorites]


I'm surprised Puzder is where the line ends up drawn. He's not a good choice by any stretch of the imagination, but he sets more people's alarms off than, say, DeVos does? I don't get it.

It's the Oprah tapes. Too embarrassing.
posted by Rust Moranis at 11:04 AM on February 15, 2017 [10 favorites]


I'm surprised Puzder is where the line ends up drawn. He's not a good choice by any stretch of the imagination, but he sets more people's alarms off than, say, DeVos does? I don't get it.

Or Carson or (*spit*) Sessions.

Yeah, I honestly don't know why this guy is the one the Rs want to defect over. If anybody has more insight, I'd love to hear it.
posted by tobascodagama at 11:04 AM on February 15, 2017


yeah can anyone explain why Puzder is so comparatively vulnerable? why are R senators willing to go for him?
posted by prefpara at 11:04 AM on February 15, 2017


I think we should brand the reforms with "MAGAcare." Then when people start getting sick we can ask them if they feel great yet, and whether they are tired of winning or are just dying of consumption.
posted by snuffleupagus at 11:04 AM on February 15, 2017 [27 favorites]


I've got $20 riding on Conway being out within the next two weeks. Let's get this show on the road.
posted by misterpatrick at 11:04 AM on February 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


I'm surprised Puzder is where the line ends up drawn. He's not a good choice by any stretch of the imagination, but he sets more people's alarms off than, say, DeVos does? I don't get it.

Maybe the penumbra of the Russian connection.
posted by kingless at 11:06 AM on February 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


Details of Rand Paul, Mark Sanford Obamacare replacement bill

Amazing how this manages to be something that will piss off both people who care if people are dying in the streets without health care/insurance AND the insurance industry as it exists today. It's stunning.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 11:07 AM on February 15, 2017 [8 favorites]




yeah can anyone explain why Puzder is so comparatively vulnerable? why are R senators willing to go for him?

They've seen the shitstorm that went down when one of their supposedly-vetted picks went down in flames, and are terrified that it's going to happen again in short order and start a cascade that takes the party down with it.

It's closing the barn door after the horse has galloped out of sight, of course, but adding this extra wrinkle (now the media is on to the fact that Trump's cabinet picks are all rejects from the Island of Misfit Toys) will hopefully slow down the confirmations enough that impeachment hearings will be happening before he has time to get the gears turning smoothly.
posted by Mayor West at 11:09 AM on February 15, 2017 [2 favorites]



No, it really doesn't. It says that if you aren't able to manage your own affairs because of mental illness, you should not have a gun before a background check. There is nothing wrong with this idea.


Look, very very few people with mental illness have representative payees. It's rarely done due to mental illness. It's strictly about ability to manage money, which has fuck all to do with the likelihood to commit violence. My clients who had payees typically had them due to substance abuse history or a history of not paying their rent and getting evicted or something like that. OR because they had a family member who had a history of taking their money and not providing for their needs. It's often not a statement about an individual's actual mental capacity, but about their circumstances.

And NONE of that is a good reason for taking away someone's constitutional rights. I firmly believe that people with mental illness (and I include my household) should not own firearms. But I also don't think a medical diagnosis or a determination by the SSA should be the basis for anyone losing their constitutional rights.

The best predictor of future violence is past violence. My clients who were the most troubling from a violence standpoint (and at least one was compared to Ed Gein by his psychiatrist) managed their money fine. I had one who later committed suicide by cop and I was not at all surprised because HE WAS CONSTANTLY THREATENING TO DO JUST THAT. But he could have held any job you cared to name and you'd never think he was incapable. I wish I could have taken his firearms away. You know, maybe we should be talking about taking away guns from people who make threats to use them on people. Just a thought there.
posted by threeturtles at 11:10 AM on February 15, 2017 [18 favorites]


yeah can anyone explain why Puzder is so comparatively vulnerable?

The National Review went sour on him because he supports gang of 8 style comprehensive immigration reform. Not Trumpy enough.
posted by peeedro at 11:10 AM on February 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


They've seen the shitstorm that went down when one of their supposedly-vetted picks went down in flames, and are terrified that it's going to happen again in short order and start a cascade that takes the party down with it.

I thought Flynn's appointment didn't require Senate Confirmation, though. So that doesn't seem right either.
posted by tobascodagama at 11:10 AM on February 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


yeah can anyone explain why Puzder is so comparatively vulnerable? why are R senators willing to go for him?

Doesn't have power like Sessions (sitting Senator), didn't buy enough votes like DeVos...
posted by cell divide at 11:11 AM on February 15, 2017 [11 favorites]


yeah can anyone explain why Puzder is so comparatively vulnerable?

Last week Trump was merely a distracting clown circus that was on the road to self destruction. This week he is a full blown dumpster fire spreading outward to every R in range.
posted by Glibpaxman at 11:15 AM on February 15, 2017 [11 favorites]




Can we somehow also get Puzder dumped from Hardee's? Because labor sec or not he's still a big Trump supporter so I can't in good conscience get a grease bomb hangover remedy breakfast sammich there.
posted by jason_steakums at 11:16 AM on February 15, 2017 [8 favorites]


Personally I'm coming around to the idea that he can't read, Sam Bee was onto something.

I believe at 70 he needs strong ass reading glasses and is far too vain to wear them. And he's too dumb to go the Rick Perry route and get glasses that make him look 'smart'.
,.
posted by readery at 11:18 AM on February 15, 2017 [14 favorites]


Last week Trump was merely a distracting clown circus that was on the road to self destruction. This week he is a full blown dumpster fire spreading outward to every R in range.

As Alexandra Petri recently wrote: "To call this past weekend in the Trump administration a garbage fire would be a disservice to garbage fires, which at least shed light and get rid of garbage."
posted by zachlipton at 11:19 AM on February 15, 2017 [96 favorites]


Trump is holding a rally in Florida on Saturday

In his ballroom?
posted by notyou at 11:19 AM on February 15, 2017


Trump is holding a rally in Florida on Saturday

Looks like it's being organized by the campaign. In the first month of his Presidency. That's astonishing.
posted by zachlipton at 11:20 AM on February 15, 2017 [29 favorites]


A big factor for Puzder is that they actually have him admitting to a breaking the law - tax fraud. He failed to pay taxes for his housekeeper and only did so when he was nominated.
posted by JackFlash at 11:21 AM on February 15, 2017 [8 favorites]


Can we somehow also get Puzder dumped from Hardee's? Because labor sec or not he's still a big Trump supporter so I can't in good conscience get a grease bomb hangover remedy breakfast sammich there.

You should try Carl's Jr. It's pretty much the same quality.
posted by Etrigan at 11:21 AM on February 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


They've seen the shitstorm that went down when one of their supposedly-vetted picks went down in flames, and are terrified that it's going to happen again in short order and start a cascade that takes the party down with it.

Which vetted pick are you referencing? Robert Bork or Harriet Miers or...? Someone may be slipping my mind.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 11:22 AM on February 15, 2017


It's here:

Orlando- Melbourne International Airport
AeroMod International Hangar

One assumes it'll be tough for protesters to get close.
posted by notyou at 11:22 AM on February 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


> Maybe trump is wanting to hold weekly rallies in Florida where he doesn't have to worry about pesky protestors.

The top reply pretty much nails it: haha, the snowflake president is so demoralized a month into his administration he needs a friendly crowd.
posted by The Card Cheat at 11:23 AM on February 15, 2017 [18 favorites]


You should try Carl's Jr. It's pretty much the same quality.

Owned by the same company, so no.
posted by chrominance at 11:23 AM on February 15, 2017 [17 favorites]


You should try Carl's Jr. It's pretty much the same quality.

Owned by the same company, so no.


thatsthejoke.gif
posted by Etrigan at 11:24 AM on February 15, 2017 [15 favorites]


Orlando- Melbourne International Airport


Time for skywriting.
posted by ocschwar at 11:24 AM on February 15, 2017 [11 favorites]


Trump is holding a rally in Florida on Saturday

I wonder if it would be possible to impeach him in such a way that neither he nor his adoring fans realize that it's even happened. Then Donald can keep doing rallies and basking in the adulation of the crowds, and the crowds can be entertained by somebody as dumb as they are, and while they're all looking at the dancing clown, we can replace everybody in the current administration with functioning, intelligent adults.
posted by Strange Interlude at 11:25 AM on February 15, 2017 [24 favorites]


Thanks for the link to Alexandra Petri.
No, it was deceiving Vice President Pence that really was the problem. Every time Pence hears something untrue, an angel is removed from a state science textbook.

This resignation is good news for Pence, who was evidently worried that if current trends continued he would be typecast as Guy Who Goes On TV And Says That Someone Did Not Say A Thing He Definitely Said. Plus, the administration had too many Mikes. Maybe this was why Pence is apparently not being cc’ed on any emails and has been roving freely in a field for the past several weeks, periodically emerging to have lunch with congressional Republicans, vote for a Cabinet nominee, or offer a fetus a wedding cake.
She is so, so, so much better at making funny than Borowitz is.
posted by Sauce Trough at 11:25 AM on February 15, 2017 [29 favorites]


Staggering termagant: She said that the voters were being scared by the media, who were whipping things up. . . .

Enturbulated: they tend to come off as perfectly sincere, though the level of imperviousness to new information varied

From Stanley Cohen, States of Denial: Knowing About Atrocities and Suffering:
There are also micro-cultures of denial within particular institutions. The “vital lies” sustained by families and the cover-ups within government bureaucracies, the police or the army are again neither personal, nor the result of official instruction. The group censors itself, learns to keep silent about matters whose open discussion would threaten its self-image. . . . organizations depend on forms of concerted ignorance, different levels of the system keeping themselves uninformed about what is happening elsewhere.

. . . [Two scholars of juvenile delinquency, Sykes and Matza, identify a vocabulary that] functions after the act to protect the individual from both self-blame and blame by others, and before the act to weaken social control – and hence make delinquency possible. . . . Three of these five techniques use the word “denial”. [1. Denial of responsibility eg "I didn't mean to," 2. denial of injury eg "people are making a big deal out of nothing," 3. denial of the victim eg "OK some damage happened but the 'victim' only got what they deserved," 4. condemnation of the condemners ie deflection, "The media and YOU are the hypocrites here," 5. appeal to higher loyalties eg "my immediate loyalties are to my tribe, no one else, especially lying media or people dumb enough to be whipped up by them."] . . . These accounts prepare the ground for the offence to take place. Afterwards, they also perform the defensive task assigned to denial: “I didn't really hurt anybody”'; “They had it coming to them”'; “Everybody's picking on me”. . . . mundane and trivial delinquency, like the worst political atrocities, relies on 'socially approved vocabularies for mitigating or relieving responsibility when conduct is questioned”.

. . . Denials draw on shared cultural vocabularies to be credible. They may also be shared in another powerful sense: the commitment between people . . . to back up and collude in each other's denials. Without conscious negotiation, family members know what trouble spots to avoid, which facts are better not noticed. . . . The facts are too brutal to ignore. They have to be reinterpreted, using techniques like minimization, euphemisms and joking. . . . The family's distinctive self-image determines which aspects of shared experience can be openly acknowledged and which must remain closed and denied. These rules are governed by the meta-rule that no one must either admit or deny that they exist. This is a consistent pattern in the families of alcoholics. Denial is an early stage . . . The alcoholic is the 'elephant in the living room”. The presence of this permanent visitor must be denied, ignored, evaded or explained as something else – or you risk betraying the family. As the alcoholism progresses, engulfs more of the family's life, and threatens exposure of the secret, so the pressures to maintain denial increase.

A more sinister form of collusive denial is that termed by Bollas: “violent innocence” . . . 'in which we observe not the nature of the subject's denial of external perception, but the subject's denial of the other's perception”. . . . The violent innocent creates confusion in another person – and then disavows any knowledge of this. . . . The newly created victim is utterly confused.

. . . [Arendt] warns that unimaginable evil can result from a constellation of ordinary human qualities: not fully realizing the immorality of what you are doing; being as normal as all your peers doing the same things; having motives that are dull, unimaginative and commonplace (going along with others, professional ambition, job security), and retaining long afterwards the facade of pseudo-stupidity, not grasping what the fuss was about. . . . “As Eichmann told it, the most potent factor in the soothing of his own conscience was the simple fact that he could see no one, no one at all, who was actually against the Final Solution”. This is the pure test: create a moral void without people knowing that this [creating the moral void] has happened.

. . . Not having an inquiring mind -- is not a flat denial of any knowledge at the time, but a claim either not to have grasped the significance of the event or not to have known the big picture. . . . in the Nazi years, denial of knowledge by millions of Germans no doubt derived from not caring enough to have inquiring minds. . . . There are states – mental and political – where denial means not giving the information much thought . . . Citizens were inured to the unfolding extermination programme. They didn't think or care much about it; it was an awkward, unimportant topic compared to the many other problems of daily life . . . people knew vaguely what was happening, but just as vaguely didn't care. . . . [They] did not lack any special cognitive facility. What they lacked was moral recognition, a sense of concern that motivates one to want to know more. Instead, the gaze was straight ahead, the blinkers on, the neck stiff, the angle of vision shutting out the horror.

. . . The more people are committed to a particular opinion or action, the more they resist information that threatens those commitments . . . Should you present the arguments in their most extreme form or moderate the message by presenting it as not too different from the audiences' own position? When the communicator has high credibility, then a larger discrepancy will be more persuasive; when the credibility of the source is doubtful, then moderate discrepancies work better.
posted by cybercoitus interruptus at 11:26 AM on February 15, 2017 [63 favorites]


thatsthejoke.gif

Well, I didn't know.
posted by adamgreenfield at 11:26 AM on February 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


Bloomberg News is reporting Puzder has withdrawn
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:28 AM on February 15, 2017 [15 favorites]


Bloomberg News is reporting Pudzer has withdrawn

So you're saying Pudzer has been pulled?
posted by Celsius1414 at 11:29 AM on February 15, 2017 [20 favorites]


In breakfast all day news, Egg McMuffin some guy who ran for president is coming up soon on CNN.
posted by spitbull at 11:29 AM on February 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


She is so, so, so much better at making funny than Borowitz is.

Yeah, but then so is Martin Heidegger, and he's both notoriously thorny and, well, dead. One of the smaller but real joys I'm looking forward to when this shitshow's behind us (and NB, I actually am beginning to think we'll put it behind us, inshallah) is never having to see Borowitz pop up in my feed again. The guy is seriously like kryptonite to funny.
posted by adamgreenfield at 11:29 AM on February 15, 2017 [9 favorites]


*
R I Puzder
posted by Rust Moranis at 11:29 AM on February 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


So now that they have removed one cabinet member and one nominee, can they get 1 new one. This is how the 2-for-1 regulation cutting works, right?
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 11:31 AM on February 15, 2017 [11 favorites]


Hmm. AeroMod International owns (or leases) the hangar where the rally will be. Link is wonky, though: "This Account has been suspended. Contact your hosting provider for more information."

Some disgruntled employees have spoken out.

Seems just about shady enough to host a Trump rally.
posted by notyou at 11:31 AM on February 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


Bloomberg News is reporting Pudzer has withdrawn

"Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning."
posted by Etrigan at 11:31 AM on February 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


I wonder if it would be possible to impeach him in such a way that neither he nor his adoring fans realize that it's even happened

Hellban Trump!
posted by spitbull at 11:32 AM on February 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


I wonder how many people are going to want to come out and hear the greatest hits again already? Maybe Trump will add some new material about how all the mean Washington Elites are keeping him from Making American Great Again.
posted by The Card Cheat at 11:32 AM on February 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


Fixed my typo, sorry.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:32 AM on February 15, 2017


roomthreeseventeen: "Trump is holding a rally in Florida on Saturday"

Does he know that he's already president and doesn't have to keep campaigning? Someone should tell him.
posted by octothorpe at 11:32 AM on February 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


I believe the rules are that as the election campaign has started next president makes the next nomination.
posted by Artw at 11:33 AM on February 15, 2017 [45 favorites]


She is so, so, so much better at making funny than Borowitz is.

i don't understand how borowitz can use the exact same playbook as the onion and yet manage to fuck it up every. single. time.
posted by murphy slaw at 11:34 AM on February 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


roomthreeseventeen: "Trump is holding a rally in Florida on Saturday"

Does he know that he's already president and doesn't have to keep campaigning? Someone should tell him.


I'm amusing myself trying to think how many of the questions people throw at protesters at Trump and the GOP who are sponsoring this event:

Doesn't he have a job?
Who is paying him to be there?
Isn't the election over?
posted by MCMikeNamara at 11:36 AM on February 15, 2017 [13 favorites]


It would be terrible if protestors ruined Trumps rallies, the one thing he derives joy from in his sour, miserable life.
posted by Artw at 11:36 AM on February 15, 2017 [10 favorites]


Maybe Trump will add some new material about how all the mean Washington Elites are keeping him from Making American Great Again.


I am pretty sure this is a much needed ego boost for him. I can't wait for him to get overexcited with the supporting crowd (for a change) and lose it with the verbal diarrhea.
posted by Tarumba at 11:37 AM on February 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


Does he know that he's already president and doesn't have to keep campaigning? Someone should tell him.

Can we do the opposite and tell him he's not president? Then he can hold his disgusting rallies and and leave us alone.
posted by Glibpaxman at 11:37 AM on February 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


I figured the Trump library would look like this.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 11:38 AM on February 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


McMullen: "I think it's clear that's the government is not functioning appropriately .... Vladimir Putin wants to destabilize our country. That's what he's succeeded in doing."
posted by spitbull at 11:39 AM on February 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


Does he know that he's already president and doesn't have to keep campaigning? Someone should tell him.

My memory of the campaign and the post-campaign period when he did the "Thank You, White People" tour, was that Trump gets cranky and needs a good rally to cheer himself up. He needs the affirmation of an adoring crowd to get his spirits back up. All this backstabbing political stuff and foreign policy crises must really be depressing.
posted by dis_integration at 11:39 AM on February 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


Please let the press know they are not obligated to sit in the pen/cover his drivel in any way outside of noting the outlandishness of doing this shit.
posted by Artw at 11:39 AM on February 15, 2017 [11 favorites]


The guy is seriously like kryptonite to funny.

i don't understand how borowitz can use the exact same playbook as the onion and yet manage to fuck it up every. single. time.


check yourselves, you are talking about the man who received seven About.com Political Dot Comedy Awards
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:41 AM on February 15, 2017 [26 favorites]


Yes, the media should simply refuse to cover the rally. If only they were up to the task or cared about more than ratings-boosting drama.
posted by spitbull at 11:43 AM on February 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


Some or all of us might yet not survive it, but I thank providence every day that when the fascist regime finally came to the USA, it was the stupidest one of all fucking time.

When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in bronzer and stepping on its own dick.
posted by kirkaracha at 11:44 AM on February 15, 2017 [37 favorites]


Trump is having his rally in a hanger to make it harder for the general public from being there but it sure would be a thing if a faction of people who have ALREADY BEEN PROTESTING AT AIRPORTS THIS MONTH could find a way to make that whole thing tougher.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 11:44 AM on February 15, 2017 [14 favorites]


It was nice of Trump to give our Floridian activist friends a place to protest this weekend.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:45 AM on February 15, 2017 [34 favorites]


The're going to deserve a punching if they pull that empty podium shit, or cut to him from literally anything of more substance.

"The president said some nazi shit at a nazi rally" is not news if you already know he is a nazi.
posted by Artw at 11:45 AM on February 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


So Rubio just told reporters he wants Flynn to testify before the Intelligence Committee. Could make for an awkward dinner tonight: Rubio is dining with Trump.
posted by zachlipton at 11:46 AM on February 15, 2017 [36 favorites]


We could raise $5k in 20 minutes.

Crowdfunding 5 years of federal prison is a bit harder, though.



Guarantee me solitary, and I'd be happy to contribute a couple of weeks. C'mon people, we can do this!
posted by darkstar at 11:46 AM on February 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


As if you needed more evidence that Bill Maher is a piece of crap: Bill Maher Gives Platform to Milo Yiannopoulos
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:46 AM on February 15, 2017 [35 favorites]


Does he know that he's already president and doesn't have to keep campaigning? Someone should tell him.

Trump has already filed for the 2020 campaign.

The OSC has already has already put out Hatch Act guidelines.
posted by Talez at 11:46 AM on February 15, 2017


i think this was discussed in a previous thread, but it was a million years ago, i.e. during the campaign.

What happens if people register for the FL rally with no intention of showing up? How closely are registrations checked, if say you want to use a fake name and address? It seems you would need to give up your real cell phone number...

are there any potential repercussions?
posted by jindc at 11:47 AM on February 15, 2017


Since the Florida trip is now a campaign event, the campaign/RNC will be reimbursing the US government for the political travel, no?
posted by melissasaurus at 11:48 AM on February 15, 2017 [13 favorites]


Borowitz is just benignly unfunny. Bill Maher is occasionally funny, but horrifically awful when he's not telling jokes.
posted by zachlipton at 11:48 AM on February 15, 2017 [8 favorites]


are there any potential repercussions? [to signing up for rally with fake info]

When he was running, I did it. Now that he's president, I'm not giving him my god damn phone number as an enemy, and if that's me being overly paranoid, I guess that's where i'm at.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 11:48 AM on February 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


i think this was discussed in a previous thread, but it was a million years ago, i.e. during the campaign.

What happens if people register for the FL rally with no intention of showing up? How closely are registrations checked, if say you want to use a fake name and address? It seems you would need to give up your real cell phone number...

are there any potential repercussions?


I was able to register with a fake email, throwaway address and a burner number last time, but in retrospect, that wasn't even required - the reports were that people just weren't interested in showing up for his victory lap.
posted by dinty_moore at 11:49 AM on February 15, 2017


>> Crowdfunding 5 years of federal prison is a bit harder, though.

> Guarantee me solitary, and I'd be happy to contribute a couple of weeks. C'mon people, we can do this!
posted by darkstar at 11:46 AM on February 15 [+] [!]


I am guessing that we could find at least twenty mefites who would gladly spend years in prison if it would ensure the downfall of Trump.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 11:50 AM on February 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


Bloomberg News is reporting Pudzer has withdrawn
I saw it coming, via the weirdest source. I get a bundle of local supermarket ads in the mail every Tuesday, often supplemented by pages of fast food coupons, and Carl's Jr. is the most regular, once a month like clockwork. Well, yesterday's bundle included Carl's Jr. coupons, just two weeks after the last batch and they were far more dominated by "2 for 1" coupons than usual. My observation: "Carl's must be hurting; probably the Trump connection."
posted by oneswellfoop at 11:52 AM on February 15, 2017 [13 favorites]


> States of Denial: Knowing About Atrocities and Suffering

Thank you. Added to my reading list.
[holding off on pontificating in thread here, think it'd be a bit much of a derail. Mods are busy enough as is!]
posted by Enturbulated at 11:53 AM on February 15, 2017


Please note: the above was not an attempt to incitement to any illegal act.


You know, because that's the world we live in, now.
posted by darkstar at 11:54 AM on February 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


OK, that response to the anti-semitism question was literally a jaw-dropper for me. I shouldn't be surprised at anything he says anymore, but... good lord.

Holy shit, I'm right there with you.

I've realized one thing over the past couple days that I'm grateful for. In consuming almost all of my Trump-related news online and avoiding seeing clips of him on TV, every time I read a quote or a transcript now, the image/voice in my head is actually Alec Baldwin play-acting him. It's like 3% less bad than actually picturing or hearing him, and I'll take it.
posted by mudpuppie at 11:54 AM on February 15, 2017 [18 favorites]


The Humble Freedom Bundle is up to $4.1M right now. Get a funding circle big enough and we could buy that person an island.
posted by mochapickle at 11:54 AM on February 15, 2017 [10 favorites]


NBC reporting that Oprah's willingness to release tape of interview with Puzder's ex-wife played significant role in sinking his nomination. I guess the Republicans didn't want to fight that battle with their constituents.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:54 AM on February 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


The media will never, ever, EVER pass on an opportunity to point their cameras and microphones at Trump. We went through this in Toronto with Rob Ford; he was constantly announcing press conferences, photo ops and whatnot for whatever bullshit because he knew that every media outlet in the city would show up hoping that something would happen. Most of the time* it either wound up being a widely-covered opportunity for Ford to mumble his way through his standard stump speech, or the press would get conned into playing their role in the little victimization dramas that he liked to stage.

* of course, every now and again they'd get shots like this or this, or a quote like this, so I guess you couldn't blame them
posted by The Card Cheat at 11:55 AM on February 15, 2017 [9 favorites]


More than Puzder should have gone down, but I take great satisfaction that he is deemed too deplorable to be one of the deplorables. Now that's gotta sting.

He is actually dodging a bullet by not getting deeper in this slime. I hope that not a single person in the cabinet or the Trump team is ever able to rid themselves of the stink that have chosen to embrace. And curses be upon all the weaselly republicans - I hope they pay a terrible price for selling their souls to the devil.
posted by madamjujujive at 11:55 AM on February 15, 2017 [7 favorites]




NBC reporting that Oprah's willingness to release tape of interview with Puzder's ex-wife played significant role in sinking his nomination. I guess the Republicans didn't want to fight that battle with their constituents.

I take back everything I ever said about her book club.
posted by emjaybee at 11:57 AM on February 15, 2017 [15 favorites]


It was nice of Trump to give our Floridian activist friends a place to protest this weekend.

Having hung with some of them (though not ones from Orlando), I can tell you that Florida activists do not fuck around. Unfortunately, neither do Florida police. (*cough, cough* Miami Model)

So, on the up side, there will be street medics present, unlike at the Women's Marches and prior airport protests. On the down side, they'll be necessary.
posted by tobascodagama at 11:57 AM on February 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


NBC reporting that Oprah's willingness to release tape of interview with Puzder's ex-wife played significant role in sinking his nomination. I guess the Republicans didn't want to fight that battle with their constituents.

oprah had better be speed-booking every cabinet nominee's spouse for her 24 hour comeback marathon on O
posted by murphy slaw at 11:58 AM on February 15, 2017 [18 favorites]


i don't understand how borowitz can use the exact same playbook as the onion and yet manage to fuck it up every. single. time.

offtopic but: The Onion employs a few dozen staff writers and remote contributors. They collectively generate many hundreds of headline ideas a week, which is narrowed down to a weekly list of ~100 of the best ones. Only a handful of those ever see the light of day. It's a brutal process of repeated distillation and destruction, like digging out tons of earth for a few flakes of comedy gold.

Andy Borowitz is one guy.
posted by theodolite at 11:58 AM on February 15, 2017 [10 favorites]


Holy shit, the FBI is all but openly saying "Man, fuck that guy.":

Trump Management Company: This release consists of FBI materials on an investigation conducted between 1972 and 1...
posted by Etrigan at 12:03 PM on February 15, 2017 [35 favorites]


Pence's sole motivation might instead be to subtly undermine Trump so that he can become President Pence.

"Might"? You're giving him far more credit than I have been since he signed on. This was so clearly his endgame that he might as well put "Vice" in erasable ink on his business cards.


Much as I hate Pence, I can't really blame him for this. I mean, even a mediocre, dull-witted, morally abysmal Handmaid's Tale motherfucker like Pence has a little pride and shouldn't be expected to jump for joy at the opportunity to work for a gross disgusting zero like Trump.

CNN is reporting that Puzder is going down, Senate Republicans have urged the White House to withdraw the nomination before it comes to that.

Yay, in no small part because I won't have to hear Self-Appointed Domestic Violence Apologist Greta van Susteren bang on anymore about how unfair it is to hold that against him.
posted by FelliniBlank at 12:05 PM on February 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


Holy shit, the FBI is all but openly saying "Man, fuck that guy.":

Adding "Save us, Comey's FBI!" to the list, right after "Save us, Roy Blunt!"
posted by Rust Moranis at 12:05 PM on February 15, 2017 [10 favorites]


So is it everyone in the FBI but Comey who hates him now?
posted by emjaybee at 12:05 PM on February 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


Comey and the New York Bureau.
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:07 PM on February 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


Just downloaded those. Barely readable.
posted by waitingtoderail at 12:09 PM on February 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


It gets more legible further into the documents, just the oldest stuff illegible.
posted by waitingtoderail at 12:13 PM on February 15, 2017


(delighted, really) by the way the clip was introduced by Louise Schiavone in the NPR news brief at the top of my lunch hour. Her disgust was audible.

i'm super happy that the media is waking up to the everburning shitshow that is the administration but maybe they wouldn't all be having to work overtime now if they had done their goddamn jobs during the campaign
posted by murphy slaw at 12:13 PM on February 15, 2017 [25 favorites]


Comey and the New York Bureau.

Worst bar band ever
posted by Existential Dread at 12:13 PM on February 15, 2017 [34 favorites]




One "interesting" thing about the Harward pick for NSA is that he was Mattis' deputy at CENTCOM. John Kelly is also a former Mattis deputy, serving directly under him in the Iraq invasion. At what point do we begin to categorize this administration by factions?

If your worried about the Marine Corps mafia, add this.

Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Dunford is the highest-ranking military officer in the United States Armed Forces: "During his command of RCT-5 in the 2003 invasion of Iraq, he earned the nickname "Fighting Joe" under James Mattis."

The Commandant of the Marine Corps Gen. Neller "said he had served under Mattis twice and "I never met anybody who tried harder to win without fighting." "

As I said before, that's a lot of Jarheads. On the other hand Politico Europe reported:

"...According to NATO estimates, just four countries — the U.K., Poland, Greece and Estonia — joined the U.S. in meeting the 2 percent target in 2016. However, a new independent report suggests only Estonia and Greece met the threshold...

...Mattis, who served at NATO as “Supreme Allied Commander Transformation” from 2007 to September 2009, is certain to get a warm reception in Brussels. His comments in support of the alliance, before and during his Senate confirmation hearings, helped counter-balance the criticism from Trump."

Slate has an article from 2010 about risk featuring Mattis, the bullet points are;

"Sometimes the more you protect your force, the less secure you may be.
Sometimes the more force is used, the less effective it is.
The more successful the counterinsurgency is, the less force can be used and the more risk must be accepted.
Sometimes, doing nothing is the best reaction."

Under a different administration, I think he would have been a great SecNav, but under Trump, who better would have been nominated for SecDef?
posted by ridgerunner at 12:15 PM on February 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


Just downloaded those. Barely readable.

Readable enough.

"On July 31, 1972, [redacted], a black, and [redacted], a white, visited the two (?) rental offices for [obscured]. [redacted] entered [redacted] and asked for a one bedroom apartment. He was told nothing was available and was asked to leave his phone number. [redacted] was not given a card or a number he could call.

"[redacted] entered the office twenty minutes later and asked for a one bedroom apartment. He was shown a vacant apart-ment and was offered it immediately. He was given [redacted] card.

(from the second page of the report proper, p. 5 of the .pdf)
posted by tivalasvegas at 12:20 PM on February 15, 2017 [19 favorites]


NBC reporting that Oprah's willingness to release tape of interview with Puzder's ex-wife played significant role in sinking his nomination. I guess the Republicans didn't want to fight that battle with their constituents.

Why not? They're fighting so many other battles against people who can't actually unseat them. I don't know why they'd stop at a wife beater who wants to turn the poor at indentured servants.
posted by Talez at 12:21 PM on February 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


Eichenwald, Newsweek:

As part of intelligence operations being conducted against the United States for the last seven months, at least one Western European ally intercepted a series of communications before the inauguration between advisers associated with President Donald Trump and Russian government officials, according to people with direct knowledge of the situation.

Ruh-roh.
posted by Rust Moranis at 12:21 PM on February 15, 2017 [64 favorites]


This is the FBI account that abruptly began tweeting flattering Trump and negative Clinton files around when the Comey letter came out.

I imagine FBI agents from opposing factions literally wrestling for control of the Twitter console
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:21 PM on February 15, 2017 [21 favorites]


NBC reporting that Oprah's willingness to release tape of interview with Puzder's ex-wife played significant role in sinking his nomination. I guess the Republicans didn't want to fight that battle with their constituents.

As Chris Hayes just pointed out, not wanting to fight that battle didn't stop them from standing by Trump when the Access Hollywood tape came out.

A study on the differences in the attitudes society shows toward sexual assault and spousal abuse would be really interesting, but that's a whole different discussion.
posted by zachlipton at 12:22 PM on February 15, 2017 [9 favorites]


"So is it everyone in the FBI but Comey who hates him now?"

Considering FBI employees are type A, hyper committed people who tend to overachieve and take pride on their work, they have to be fucking livid that Comey didn't care about their reputation as an agency. I would be.

A friend and an acquaintance applied for jobs with them and the background check they do, it's true commitment to keep such a squeaky clean life that they will hire you.

One time I was interviewed by dept of Defense and I barely knew the person they were considering for the job and they kind of grilled me. Imagine going through that kind of selection and then Comey shits on everything.

I trust that government workers will do everything they can to secretly sabotage the clown who has no respect for his own office, let alone theirs.
posted by Tarumba at 12:23 PM on February 15, 2017 [14 favorites]


[Warning, the Newsweek link has autoplay video and awful coding]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:24 PM on February 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


Bannon is a man like an unmade bed - he's obviously not doing anything fun with his money for normal values of fun.

Well, he's obviously spending van loads of it on vast vats of alcohol and then sleeping in his clothes face-down on his carpet, which might be fun if you're an alcoholic.


You'd think, but no.
posted by bongo_x at 12:24 PM on February 15, 2017 [16 favorites]


Oh my god Trump is so dumb
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 12:25 PM on February 15, 2017 [31 favorites]


the FBI is all but openly saying "Man, fuck that guy.":

Pretty sure someone FOIA'd those docs months back, and releasing them publicly is SOP once the request is processed.
posted by Coventry at 12:26 PM on February 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


It's hard to imagine a more awkward event than Melania Trump taking Sara Netanyahu to visit the Smithsonian's National Museum of African American History and Culture (linked tweet just says it happened, no further details).
posted by zachlipton at 12:26 PM on February 15, 2017 [10 favorites]


Sometimes I undertake stupid projects. I thought I'd go to look at The Apprentice ratings to see whether or to what degree Trump lied about its popularity. I came to the conclusion that not only The Apprentice was unpopular, it nearly singlehandedly destroyed NBC.

(I say the project was stupid because it took a huge amount of time over the last few weeks.)
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 12:27 PM on February 15, 2017 [74 favorites]


Pretty sure someone FOIA'd those docs months back, and releasing them publicly is SOP once the request is processed.

I feel like the FBI has probably responded to more than 16 FOIA requests this year.
posted by Etrigan at 12:28 PM on February 15, 2017 [7 favorites]


Oh my god Trump is so dumb
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 2:25 PM on February 15 [+] [!]


Was this apropos of something or just a general comment
posted by tivalasvegas at 12:30 PM on February 15, 2017 [32 favorites]


NBC reporting that Oprah's willingness to release tape of interview with Puzder's ex-wife played significant role in sinking his nomination. I guess the Republicans didn't want to fight that battle with their constituents.

For the record, Oprah refused to release the tape. Politico tracked down a copy from one of the other women on the panel.
posted by zachlipton at 12:32 PM on February 15, 2017 [20 favorites]


Was this apropros of something or just a general comment

Kind of like when the Yellowstone Super Volcano finally blows and takes the Continental United States with it, some Nebraskan farmer a few minutes in will tip his hat back, spit, and say, "Would you look at that!"
posted by Celsius1414 at 12:33 PM on February 15, 2017 [29 favorites]


It's really struck me that almost no one in this administration seems to get much use out of being rich other than the sheer "I can be an asshole" aspect.

Money can't buy class. This has been the heart of Trump's neurotic insecurity for years. He will never be accepted by the people he sees at the top of the social class pyramid, and it's all he can see. Even after being President of the United States (!), he will fixate for the rest of his life on the fact that he isn't (and isn't perceived as) as beloved as Obama and Reagan, as blue-blooded as the Bushes, as charismatic as Clinton, as handsome as Romney, as tough as McCain, and on and on. (He probably thinks Carter is just a wimp, frankly…he would never be able to understand the appeal of Carter's goodness and sincerity.)

His father taught him there are only winners ("killers") and losers in life. Every time he is not accepted it compounds his fear that he's the latter. He looks at himself and he sees and knows he is trash through and through.
posted by sallybrown at 12:34 PM on February 15, 2017 [72 favorites]


For the record, Oprah refused to release the tape.

She would not release it publicly, but she agreed to screen it for Senators who wanted to see it. Sen. Collins saw it and apparently it was a major reason she was going to vote against him.
posted by sallybrown at 12:36 PM on February 15, 2017 [29 favorites]




Every time he is not accepted it compounds his fear that he's the latter.

I'd punish you, but I think you've punished yourself enough.



not really, I want this guy to go to prison for the rest of his natural life
posted by Existential Dread at 12:37 PM on February 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


dances_with_sneetches: that post is awesome and i'm sharing it with anyone who will listen
posted by murphy slaw at 12:38 PM on February 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


From the Newsweek article rust moranis linked:

Of equal concern to our allies is Trump’s business partner in the Philippines, who is also the special representative to Washington of that country’s president, Rodrigo Duterte. This government official, Jose E.B. Antonio, is the head of Century Properties, which in turn is a partner with the president’s business in the construction of Trump Tower at Century City in Makati, Philippines. According to people with direct knowledge of the situation, a European intelligence service has obtained the contracts and other legal documents in the deal between the Trump Organization and Antonio. That deal has already resulted in large payments to Trump’s business, with millions of dollars more on the way–all coming from an agent of the Philippine president.

Interesting.
posted by futz at 12:41 PM on February 15, 2017 [33 favorites]


And Joe said, “The knowledge that I’ve got enough.”

EXACTLY.

I also think this is one of the key reasons he will fail. He doesn't understand the mindset of many of the people who join the civil service and/or the intelligence community. He doesn't know what he's up against. And he doesn't know when to fucking QUIT while he's ahead or even tone it down a little.
posted by sallybrown at 12:42 PM on February 15, 2017 [8 favorites]


Was this apropos of something or just a general comment


All I know is that I was catching up with the thread and experiencing the deluge of facts and info and commentary about this crazy thing and that horrible thing over there and then just a brief and simple:

Oh my god Trump is so dumb.


And I paused, took a deep breath and started laughing and laughing.
posted by Jalliah at 12:43 PM on February 15, 2017 [50 favorites]


I feel compelled to say that Lawfare is an awful blog largely devoted to defending the worst excesses of the national security state (you can watch an entire 45 minute lecture largely devoted to taking down what the site stands for, by Ben Wizner, Snowden's lawyer and of the ACLU), but this particular post is worth sharing: More Questions About McGahn in the Flynn Imbroglio. In their haste to come up with a ridiculous explanation for the Flynn situation, the administration left some huge unanswered questions about the role of White House Counsel Donald McGahn, who Spicer said "immediately" determined that Flynn's actions posed no legal issues.

Among them, did McGahn know the FBI interviewed Flynn? How could a White House Counsel "immediately" determine there are no legal issues when a staffer has just been interviewed by federal law enforcement? Did McGahn actually do anything?

There are a lot of weak spots in their story, and many of them go through Donald McGahn.
posted by zachlipton at 12:47 PM on February 15, 2017 [6 favorites]


dances_with_sneetches: "Of course, he didn't say the ratings stunk. He used euphemisms for stunk, like wonderful. "

Thank you. This was so funny and interesting. Just a couple of days ago I was trying to figure out why on earth that show was popular, I remember I found it boring as shit. Turns out that particular success of trump was gilded garbage, like everything else about him.
posted by Tarumba at 12:50 PM on February 15, 2017 [6 favorites]


Shit is going Le Carre: The Strange Case Of The Russian Diplomat Who Got His Head Smashed In On Election Day

wait this is starting to make a morbid morsel of sense..
a lot of people around Ivanov and Yakunin got dissappeared around December.. and i'm pretty sure Stoyanov was on good terms with Ivanov, otoh Yakunin was old school humint, not sure how he fits the narrative :/
posted by xcasex at 12:50 PM on February 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


(That post is by Jack Goldsmith, who was Assistant Attorney General, Office of Legal Counsel from 2003-2004 under Bush––see what I mean about Lawfare being devoted to defending the worst excesses of the national security state? Though even Goldsmith found some of the torture memos a bridge too far and ultimately resigned––, who is presumably someone who as a clue what's supposed to happen when the White House Counsel is informed a senior staffer is under federal investigation.)
posted by zachlipton at 12:50 PM on February 15, 2017


Ooh, if he's mixed up in dirt with that crazy fuck Duerte, that wil be funny. I guess?

Not much to laugh about with Duterte, considering he's admitted to hunting down random people and murdering them during his time as mayor of Davao. That motherfucker is terrifying.
posted by Existential Dread at 12:52 PM on February 15, 2017 [8 favorites]


There are a lot of weak spots in their story, and many of them go through Donald McGahn.

*gets on P.A. system*
Mr. Dean? Mr. John Dean, please pick up the white courtesy phone.
posted by FelliniBlank at 12:52 PM on February 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


I am way behind in this thread, but from late last night: The thing is killing me is the fact that all of this was utterly obvious from before the election. The Russian connection was like staring at the coastlines of Africa and South America and seeing how they fit. Any child could have looked at the facts and seen how fucking obvious it was. All we have now is confirmation of everything we inferred from the mountain of evidence we had during the campaign.

And a media that no longer "balances" every such story with "but her emails!"
posted by Gelatin at 12:53 PM on February 15, 2017 [17 favorites]


Thanks for filling in more of the backstory with Oprah, cjelli and sallybrown. I wasn't aware of that, and certainly agree that protecting the promised anonymity of the women involved is important.
posted by zachlipton at 12:54 PM on February 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


And I paused, took a deep breath and started laughing and laughing.

This is important.

Beyond all the horrors and the fears; the anger, the frustration, the sorrow; the terrifying uncertainties, the even-more-terrifying already-certainties...

We have to laugh. We have to mock, even. This guy is such a dumbass. We're not fucking going to let him and his posse of idiots destroy our beloved country.

We will win, because our love -- yes, I'm going there -- our love is making our struggle for justice and peace into a thing greater than his greed and hatred can withstand.
posted by tivalasvegas at 12:56 PM on February 15, 2017 [37 favorites]


What happens if people register for the FL rally with no intention of showing up? How closely are registrations checked, if say you want to use a fake name and address? It seems you would need to give up your real cell phone number...

Nothing. It's just a ploy to get your info for marketing.

Incidentally there was already a planned rally after the inauguration. Orlando is not the first. Milwaukeeans made enough ruckus that Trump was scared of protests, Harley Davidson refused to host it, and the executives went to DC instead.
posted by AFABulous at 12:56 PM on February 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


Melania Trump taking Sara Netanyahu to visit the Smithsonian's National Museum of African American History and Culture

"Here in America, we have our own Palestinians too..."
posted by acb at 12:56 PM on February 15, 2017 [14 favorites]


So now they're (DoD) floating sending US ground troops to Syria.

An obvious false flag distraction for the media, surely.
posted by spitbull at 12:57 PM on February 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


Puzder has withdrawn.
posted by kerf at 12:57 PM on February 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


The "our own Palestinians" line would work (even) better at the Museum of the American Indian.
posted by spitbull at 12:58 PM on February 15, 2017 [13 favorites]


oh what the fresh hell is this. WaPo:

Senate Democrats reject push for outside probe of Trump-Russia links

posted by murphy slaw at 12:59 PM on February 15, 2017 [7 favorites]


According to people with direct knowledge of the situation, a European intelligence service has obtained the contracts and other legal documents in the deal between the Trump Organization and Antonio. That deal has already resulted in large payments to Trump’s business, with millions of dollars more on the way–all coming from an agent of the Philippine president.

Y'know, normally I'd be all like: E-MOL-U-MENTS CLAUSE. But maybe Trump will get taken down by this Russia stuff before any of that matters.
posted by dis_integration at 12:59 PM on February 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


Senate Democrats reject push for outside probe of Trump-Russia links

They want to grandstand during widely televised committee meetings, not wait for some independent prosecutor to dig up the goods.
posted by dis_integration at 1:00 PM on February 15, 2017 [18 favorites]


Senate Democrats reject push for outside probe of Trump-Russia links
One Republican, however, said lawmakers should establish a “joint select committee” — consisting of members of the House and the Senate — to examine the allegations in the Times report.

“Now, was this outside the norm? Was this something damaging to the country?” Sen. Lindsey O. Graham (R-S.C.) said in a Fox News Channel interview Wednesday morning. “I don’t know, but if there were contacts between Russian officials and Trump campaign operatives that [were] inappropriate, then it would be time for the Congress to form a joint select commission to get to the bottom of all things Russia and Trump.”
I'm tired of living in a world where I wind up agreeing with Lindsey Graham over spineless Chuck Schumer.
posted by Existential Dread at 1:03 PM on February 15, 2017 [22 favorites]


Huh. Elon Musk posted and then deleted two tweets about the Muslim ban. They almost seemed liked drafts that weren't fully edited:

Elon Musk ‏@elonmusk 2 minutes ago
They rarely warrant a public statement. However, the ban on Muslim immigrants from certain countries rises to this level. It is not right.

Elon Musk ‏@elonmusk 2 minutes ago
The Muslim immigration ban is not right
posted by bluecore at 1:03 PM on February 15, 2017 [5 favorites]




Oh hey, this is my own town Dumpy is coming to this weekend. It's red state hell compounded by an unholy demographic alliance of the retired racist leftovers of every other state and borderline redneck defense contractors heavily burdened by engineer's disease. There will likely be plenty of chumps that show up for this. Don't worry though, we will be protesting.
posted by Kitty Stardust at 1:05 PM on February 15, 2017 [36 favorites]


Not much to laugh about with Duterte, considering he's admitted to hunting down random people and murdering them during his time as mayor of Davao. That motherfucker is terrifying.

I think a lot of these psychopathic autocrats in more vulnerable countries get away with their crimes because sadly in the world stage they are too small potatoes to be controlled unless they go on genocide mode (and even then...). If trump can drag this motherfucker down with him, it would be a rare and delicious bonus.
posted by Tarumba at 1:06 PM on February 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


Of equal concern to our allies is Trump’s business partner in the Philippines, who is also the special representative to Washington of that country’s president, Rodrigo Duterte. This government official, Jose E.B. Antonio, is the head of Century Properties, which in turn is a partner with the president’s business in the construction of Trump Tower at Century City in Makati, Philippines.

For context, Makati is the upper middle class residential / financial district in Manila. The kind of nice, safe place that countries choose to put their embassies, and international banks put their headquarters. Prime real estate.
posted by UbuRoivas at 1:07 PM on February 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


As Alexandra Petri recently wrote: "To call this past weekend in the Trump administration a garbage fire would be a disservice to garbage fires, which at least shed light and get rid of garbage."

I know it's been said before, Alexandra Petri is a friggin national treasure.
posted by zakur at 1:07 PM on February 15, 2017 [28 favorites]




As a former abuser of blow, the fact that Trump wants a fuckin rally after a week like this just screams of rivers, oceans of coke.

Or he's insane. I mean, it's one or the other.
posted by angrycat at 1:09 PM on February 15, 2017 [15 favorites]


Bannon is a man like an unmade bed

Bannon is a man like an unmade bed
Fitted sheet loose on one corner
Blanket and top sheet curled into a fabric worm
(So he has something to wrap his arm around)
Pillow on the floor where it fell last week
Unsorted laundry where she once slept
The sour smell of fermented sweat
No comforter - there is no comfort here

Even though he offers the bed
House guests choose the couch instead
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:11 PM on February 15, 2017 [44 favorites]


I miss the days when our government used to at least give the courtesy of spending months lying through their teeth to us and to the world before launching an ill-conceived, terribly prosecuted and ultimately destabilizing ground war in the Middle East.

Chivalry is just dead anymore.
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:11 PM on February 15, 2017 [10 favorites]


That fucker Ted Cruz has introduced legislation to abolish the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau.

... is this where Elizabeth Warren pulls off her pantsuit to reveal her Amazonian warrior costume? Because I have to believe she'll be pissed.
posted by suelac at 1:11 PM on February 15, 2017 [37 favorites]


The DNC will vote next week on a resolution to condemn ABC's Designated Survivor on the basis that the real FBI Director didn't need to be blackmailed into engaging in "illegal partisan actions."
posted by zachlipton at 1:12 PM on February 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


Reminder that lots of people aren't seeing what we're seeing here

Shit like this makes me feel like Dr. Bennell at the end of Invasion of the Body Snatchers. How is the truth not manifestly obvious to even the most dimwitted?
posted by jackbishop at 1:12 PM on February 15, 2017 [6 favorites]


The DNC will vote next week on a resolution to condemn ABC's Designated Survivor on the basis that the real FBI Director didn't need to be blackmailed into engaging in "illegal partisan actions."

My joke meter is so fucking broken at this point.
posted by Etrigan at 1:14 PM on February 15, 2017 [13 favorites]


As long as there's a thorough investigation, I don't think I care whether it's conducted by Senate committees or by an independent counsel? I don't really know what the mechanism for appointing an independent counsel looks like, but is it possible the GOP could just get their preferred guy to ensure that the buck stops at a convenient place for their purposes?

As for putting US boots on the ground... Presumably, these troops would be backing Assad?
posted by tobascodagama at 1:14 PM on February 15, 2017


... Ground troops?

I was idly wondering if SCROTUS (love that!) was going to stage some sort of terror attack or military intervention to change the subject. I'm not saying that's what going on right now but he needs to look like a big strong man so there is no telling what he will do. Whatever it is it will be a clusterfuck of stupid. Here's to hoping nobody gets killed because of it.
posted by futz at 1:14 PM on February 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


That fucker Ted Cruz has introduced legislation to abolish the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau.

Mortgage brokers, cast off your fetters and BE HEALED IN HEIST
posted by snuffleupagus at 1:14 PM on February 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


Pissing off Warren is the entire point of that bill.
posted by theodolite at 1:15 PM on February 15, 2017 [14 favorites]


"No," she said. "That's not true."

It's true and I can prove it. Tell me what kind of evidence you will accept. Would a 1st hand account with pictures from someone on Facebook work?

At this point, what usually happens is that the other person gets suspicious. They'll usually come up with some impossibly high standard. But then you can push back on their standards and maybe negotiate something reasonable that you can then produce.

"It's all just manufactured from outside," she said.

"What if it's not? What if the media is reporting the facts correctly and everyone is scared for a good reason? What if you're wrong?"

You want to be the one asking questions. You have more control over the conversation this way because you choose the direction of the conversation. They have to keep reacting to you by way of responding to your questions. If they answer your question with another question, try to answer it quickly and then refocus on your question. This keeps them thinking about the situation instead of just the next thing they need to say to defend their worldview.

It's super hard to do in the moment without a lot of practice (I often make the same kind of critique of my own interactions like this). But, if you're very lucky, you'll have found someone near the edge. You can't pull them back from the edge, you can only get them to convince themselves that they're over the abyss. You won't even get to see the whole thing, the most that you can usually accomplish is to slightly nudge them in that direction, plant a little seed of doubt that maybe grows into a vine they use to pull themselves back with.

And I'll say it again, yes you give them a cookie if they see the light. They don't deserve it but it's about rewarding good behavior. When they exhibit the behavior you want, give them a reward, just like training a dog. And, like training a dog, the benefit to doing so is that now none of the people who have to live with the dog, have to deal with that dog's bad behavior.

I'd rather they have a genuine change of heart and try to make up for their past deeds knowing that they never really will just like I want the underlying reason my dog does what I say is because she loves me. But really, I'm happy as long as she doesn't shit in the house.
posted by VTX at 1:15 PM on February 15, 2017 [31 favorites]


Foreign Policy, interesting: Trump Is Showing How the Deep State Really Works
posted by Joe in Australia at 1:18 PM on February 15, 2017 [13 favorites]


Here comes the suffering.

Pentagon may recommend U.S. deploy combat troops in Syria: CNN

The U.S. Defense Department may recommend that the United States deploy regular combat troops to Syria for the first time to fight Islamic State militants, CNN reported on Wednesday. A small number U.S. special forces operate in the war-torn country but the previous Obama administration had rejected putting combat troops into the middle of Syria's civil war. CNN said the Pentagon had not yet proposed the deployment to the White House.
posted by Rust Moranis at 1:18 PM on February 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


Oh hey, this is my own town Dumpy is coming to this weekend. It's red state hell compounded by an unholy demographic alliance of the retired racist leftovers of every other state and borderline redneck defense contractors heavily burdened by engineer's disease.

That sounds like a bad place.
posted by bongo_x at 1:19 PM on February 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


shake shake shake
posted by lalochezia at 1:22 PM on February 15, 2017 [35 favorites]


Here's to hoping nobody gets killed because of it.

This administration's track record on military action thus far has been wrecked aircraft, multiple injuries and one SEAL dead, not to mention the deaths of tens of civilians including children. If these clowns do put troops into Syria, I'm confident they'll get lots of them killed.

I don't see much mention of any specific objective; "speed up the fight against ISIS" is distressingly vague, as is "for some period of time." This had better just be a trial balloon, because it looks real bad.
posted by Existential Dread at 1:24 PM on February 15, 2017 [16 favorites]


Regardless, time to fire up the "FUCK YOUR STUPID FUCKING WAR IN SYRIA" protests for Saturday.
posted by tobascodagama at 1:26 PM on February 15, 2017 [29 favorites]


Reminder that lots of people aren't seeing what we're seeing here

Is there any media watchdog that puts out a report like "what your aunt in arkansas who only watches fox and (maybe) the local news knows about [subject]?" Not just anecdotal, but something systemic and comprehensible (ie, not academic) about how much time Fox devoted to Her Emails vs. Russian Puppet or how they're covering Flynn. I am curious about how wildly different they perceive our world to be, but I am not about to start watching Fox to find out.
posted by Mavri at 1:29 PM on February 15, 2017 [9 favorites]


I think Media Matters is on the "What the Assholes Are Saying" beat.
posted by tobascodagama at 1:31 PM on February 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


As a former abuser of blow, the fact that Trump wants a fuckin rally after a week like this just screams of rivers, oceans of coke.

Mountains of credit card debt
a mountain of cocaine
tons of cocaine.

Atomic bomb radiation experiments
unwitting test subjects
dangerous radiation
marijuana
abuse
hooked on drugs.

Time for us to bug out.
posted by adamgreenfield at 1:32 PM on February 15, 2017 [13 favorites]


It's the New York Daily News, so grain of salt: Feds may be probing Fox News in undisclosed criminal investigation
posted by Mister Fabulous at 1:33 PM on February 15, 2017 [23 favorites]


I don't find the Daily News to lack credibility in hard news stories, and that article is well sourced.
posted by spitbull at 1:38 PM on February 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


Donald Trump has only taken questions from the conservative media in the last 2 weeks: Shinzo Abe/Donald Trump (Feb. 10)

NY Post
Fox

Justin Trudeau/Donald Trump (Feb. 13)

ABC 7 (Sinclair)
Daily Caller

Benjamin Netanyahu/Donald Trump (Feb. 15)

Christian Broadcasting Network
Townhall

posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:40 PM on February 15, 2017 [13 favorites]


I'm sorry, but WHAT THE FUCK would be the point of putting troops in Syria at this point? Is there any upside to that?
posted by threeturtles at 1:41 PM on February 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


> Is there any upside to that?

Sure there is! We all start paying attention to Syria instead of the grease fire in the Oval Office.
posted by Old Kentucky Shark at 1:42 PM on February 15, 2017 [33 favorites]


Complicity in genocide is its own reward.
posted by Artw at 1:42 PM on February 15, 2017 [17 favorites]


it's a favor to trump's best bud putin and makes trump look strong like bull?

we're missing out on all that sweet sweet atrocity action?
posted by murphy slaw at 1:43 PM on February 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


It's like America is my freshman year apartment and half the voters are that roommate who used to do stuff like try to breed cockroaches or huff gas from the stove.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 1:44 PM on February 15, 2017 [28 favorites]


Is there any upside to that?

Trump will defeat the Supreme Overlord of Isis and Fred Trump will look down from white people heaven and at last acknowledge his son as a real killer, one of life's true winners
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:45 PM on February 15, 2017 [32 favorites]


Feds may be probing Fox News in undisclosed criminal investigation

FOX NEWS ALERT: COMEY SUCKS AFTER ALL, FBI IS "FAKE NEWS" [not real, yet]
posted by snuffleupagus at 1:45 PM on February 15, 2017 [7 favorites]


Time to buy popcorn futures, this is huge: U.S. Allies Conduct Intelligence Operation Against Trump Staff and Associates, Intercepted Communications

1) US allies confirm that they have been specifically spying on US persons;
2) This may be (probably is, IMO) the source for at least some of the US revelations;
3) A known loophole in US privacy laws is that US agencies can use information gathered by their allies, even when US agencies could not legally gather that information themselves;
4) European and US agencies are actively sharing and collating information on the Family Business;
5) The leaks aren't just coming from American agencies any more.
posted by Joe in Australia at 1:47 PM on February 15, 2017 [111 favorites]




and yeah I know that's basically a recycled Bush-era joke but it's funny how these patterns repeat themselves isn't it

RICH DADS: HUG YOUR FUCKIN' KIDS ONCE IN A WHILE, JESUS
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:47 PM on February 15, 2017 [48 favorites]


Has anyone asked if those ground troops will be supporting the Assad regime in these operations?
posted by cmfletcher at 1:47 PM on February 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


Sending ground troops to fight ISIS in a country engulfed in a civil war seems.... problematic?
posted by diogenes at 1:49 PM on February 15, 2017


I've still seen no sourcing for this ground troops thing. Who said it? Where?
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:51 PM on February 15, 2017


Sending ground troops to fight ISIS in a country engulfed in a civil war seems.... problematic?


. . . but it might work for us.
posted by Think_Long at 1:51 PM on February 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


CNN is quoting a "defense official".
posted by tobascodagama at 1:52 PM on February 15, 2017


Sending ground troops to fight ISIS in a country engulfed in a civil war seems.... problematic?

Nah, it's way easier than securing an embassy. I'm sure nothing will be overlooked and there will be no collateral damage at all because it will be planned by just the best people to throw overboard once it goes south. Just them. No one else. It's not our fault.
posted by snuffleupagus at 1:53 PM on February 15, 2017


Pentagon might propose sending ground troops to Syria

Does not sound like it's coming from Trump
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:53 PM on February 15, 2017


CNN is quoting a "defense official".

the manager of janitorial services at the pentagon is technically a defense official right
posted by murphy slaw at 1:53 PM on February 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


In short, it's a stunt bill and you should just ignore it.

i know what you're saying - but isn't this a stunt government?
posted by pyramid termite at 1:54 PM on February 15, 2017 [9 favorites]


the manager of janitorial services at the pentagon is technically a defense official right

Given the use of vendors, this is probably a "career Pentagon consultant" or a "defense contractor working closely with stakeholders."
posted by snuffleupagus at 1:54 PM on February 15, 2017 [6 favorites]


I have searched and failed... What is PVL? Trump I assume.
posted by futz at 1:55 PM on February 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


The CNN article quoting "one defense official" also states:
But the official emphasized that any decision is ultimately up to President Donald Trump, who has ordered his defense secretary to come up with a proposal to combat ISIS before the end of the month.

[...]

US officials are characterizing the concept of deploying ground troops as a point of discussion, stopping short of saying it's a formal proposal.
posted by zakur at 1:55 PM on February 15, 2017


Sending ground troops to fight ISIS in a country engulfed in a civil war seems.... problematic?

Well, only if you think "whoops, we killed the wrong people" counts as a problem. /sarcasm /bitterness
posted by puddledork at 1:55 PM on February 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


CNN isn't Breitbart, if they're running a story on it their source is somebody in a position to know. But the story is also very carefully couched as "the Pentagon might suggest to the President..." rather than "the President has ordered". So, it's too early to say what actually happens, but this is an option that's on the table.
posted by tobascodagama at 1:56 PM on February 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


honestly though you had to expect that the 2016-17 writers would have the administration made up of General Hux bobbleheads get involved in a land war in Asia
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:57 PM on February 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


PVL = "Popular Vote Loser"
posted by friendlyjuan at 1:58 PM on February 15, 2017 [11 favorites]


But the official emphasized that any decision is ultimately up to President Donald Trump, who has ordered his defense secretary to come up with a proposal to combat ISIS before the end of the month.

What? Is he holding his secret fool-proof plan to defeat ISIS in reserve?
posted by ckape at 1:58 PM on February 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


he asked for a proposal to combat ISIS… why didn't they just tell him to send a bunch of special forces to the bahamas to track down a hot lead
posted by murphy slaw at 1:58 PM on February 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


Huh. Elon Musk posted and then deleted two tweets about the Muslim ban.

How do you track this?
posted by Coventry at 1:59 PM on February 15, 2017


CNN is quoting a "defense official".

Oh, so anonymous defense officials are now setting war policy / "musing about" ground invasions? Well fuck me if this isn't all just fine.

US officials are characterizing the concept of deploying ground troops as a point of discussion, stopping short of saying it's a formal proposal.

But the story is also very carefully couched as "the Pentagon might suggest to the President..." rather than "the President has ordered". So, it's too early to say what actually happens, but this is an option that's on the table.

*rips last hairs off his skull*

THIS IS NOT HOW WE GO TO WAR. THE MILITARY DOESN'T TELL THE GOVERNMENT WHEN THEY WANT TO DO GROUND INVASIONS. BUT ALSO, I TRUST THE PENTAGON OVER THE WHITE HOUSE AT THIS POINT. NONE OF THIS IS FINE
posted by tivalasvegas at 2:01 PM on February 15, 2017 [38 favorites]


But the story is also very carefully couched as "the Pentagon might suggest to the President..." rather than "the President has ordered". So, it's too early to say what actually happens, but this is an option that's on the table.

Great, the Pentagon's planners are actually split over whether this fucking horrifically bad idea should be recommended to Trump and so the group opposed it trying to strangle it in the cradle by outcry.

Which, good, but scary that anyone thinks that's a winnable fight, and scary that there isn't a sane way to make sure that doesn't become the recommendation without leaking.
posted by snuffleupagus at 2:01 PM on February 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


This morning's Pod Save the World was with Ben Rhodes, covering a bunch of interesting topics, but ending with a discussion about the no-win situation in Syria, finally concluding that the only reasonable thing they could do was increase aid and relief for refugees.
So, of course these assholes are floating ground troops.
posted by rp at 2:01 PM on February 15, 2017 [5 favorites]




It's hard to imagine a more awkward event than Melania Trump taking Sara Netanyahu to visit the Smithsonian's National Museum of African American History and Culture (linked tweet just says it happened, no further details).

Tomorrow they visit the Spy Museum and on Friday a family outing to the Holocaust museum. (fake)
posted by jeremias at 2:02 PM on February 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


Pentagon might propose sending ground troops to Syria

Maybe this is just so Trump can show he's smarter than those generals by nixing the plan?
posted by nubs at 2:02 PM on February 15, 2017


i can't tell if anything that is coming out of the government on background is true or is just lifers in the bureaucracy trolling the president anymore
posted by murphy slaw at 2:02 PM on February 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


I have always assumed the military top brass has ALWAYS told the Prez what they WANT to do.
posted by agregoli at 2:04 PM on February 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


Re: Trump's tax returns. There has been a lawsuit filed over violations the Emoluments Clause (led by Norm Eisen, Richard Painter and others).

Painter, a retired Republican Ohio state judge, isn't waiting for the results of that suit. He's calling for articles of impeachment to be drafted & offers to help drafting them.
posted by scalefree at 2:05 PM on February 15, 2017 [26 favorites]




Painter, a retired Republican Ohio state judge, isn't waiting for the results of that suit. He's calling for articles of impeachment to be drafted & offers to help drafting them.

that's a bit disingenuous since the chances of his representative taking him up on the offer are precisely nil.
posted by murphy slaw at 2:08 PM on February 15, 2017


Here's who the US troops will be fighting sidecar by side with.

Up to 13,000 secretly hanged in Syrian jail, says Amnesty

The US has some shady shit in its past but exterminating a population alongside Assad and Putin will be a shame it will never recover from.
posted by Artw at 2:09 PM on February 15, 2017 [26 favorites]


Metro News Toronto covered Spicer's "Joe Trudeau" mixup as "Hey...Joe? Melissa McCarthy impersonator Sean Spicer screws up PM's name"
posted by zachlipton at 2:09 PM on February 15, 2017 [19 favorites]


I have always assumed the military top brass has ALWAYS told the Prez what they WANT to do.

Via anonymous conversations with CNN reporters, 27 days into a new administration? That's not normal.
posted by tivalasvegas at 2:10 PM on February 15, 2017 [13 favorites]


that's a bit disingenuous since the chances of his representative taking him up on the offer are precisely nil.

I think it was more tongue in cheek, teasing the Rep. he's already chided in the commentary. "Change sides, we'll be buddies & write it together."
posted by scalefree at 2:16 PM on February 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


Less than a month, and there are things I've ALREADY FORGOTTEN EVEN HAPPENED that would be breathtaking in any other presidency. Just. So. Much. Shit.
posted by thebrokedown at 2:16 PM on February 15, 2017 [50 favorites]


Heyyy what a great time to put American and Russian ground troops in close proximity in an unstable country.
posted by jason_steakums at 2:17 PM on February 15, 2017 [4 favorites]




scalefree, you're probably right. i keep doing the least charitable reading of everything these days.
posted by murphy slaw at 2:19 PM on February 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


I have searched and failed... What is PVL? Trump I assume.

It's one of about 100 cutsy nicknames used by individuals in this thread for Trump. It's not bad enough that we have to copy the right wing with the childish nicknames, but we're the left so we can't even agree on one so everyone just uses their own and then changes it every two weeks.
posted by threeturtles at 2:22 PM on February 15, 2017 [76 favorites]


I really appreciate that the Tampa Bay Times article has little summaries/"translations" under each of the Facebook screenshots.
posted by tobascodagama at 2:23 PM on February 15, 2017 [4 favorites]




it is super annoying, agreed, but also there is a true and honest moment of hilarity when someone refers to "that nazi asshole" and i'm like "hi that could literally be anyone these days".
posted by poffin boffin at 2:25 PM on February 15, 2017 [36 favorites]


you'd think a community of bookwormy nerds like this would hold Dumbledore's advice about using proper names in higher regard
posted by prize bull octorok at 2:25 PM on February 15, 2017 [11 favorites]


Via anonymous conversations with CNN reporters, 27 days into a new administration? That's not normal.

This is a variant on John Oliver's brilliant solution. If the only way Trump processes information is by watching it on TV, you find a way to put it in front of him. Can't do it with everything & it's horrible that we're in a place where it makes any sense at all because it's just about the worst way imaginable for the military to brief the Commander in Chief, but if there are reasons against all the other ways I can understand the motive.

Strategic leaking also locks Trump into a single narrative before the fact, something that's becoming more obviously necessary as we see him operate.
posted by scalefree at 2:26 PM on February 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


There is a less than subtle difference between the avoidance of a name because of fear, and the ungentle mockery many of us are engaging in.
posted by Enturbulated at 2:28 PM on February 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


I can usually figure them out but PVL threw me especially because it was used to replace trump's name in a news release.
posted by futz at 2:28 PM on February 15, 2017


Hi. Remember eight years of "Obummer"? It's just as childish and stupid when it's applied to politicians from other parties. Repurpose his existing name if you must. Like Santorum!
posted by theraflu at 2:29 PM on February 15, 2017 [26 favorites]


Foreign Policy, interesting: Trump Is Showing How the Deep State Really Works

I like to imagine that somewhere along the line there was a conversation like this one. Because Burn After Reading feels like the Coen brothers movie that captures this time.
posted by nubs at 2:29 PM on February 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


The guy's called Trump. His name has been a joke this side of the Atlantic since forever.
posted by mushhushshu at 2:30 PM on February 15, 2017 [19 favorites]


What's wrong with "you know who" or "He who must not be named"?
posted by Namlit at 2:31 PM on February 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


Heyyy what a great time to put American and Russian ground troops in close proximity in an unstable country.

Hey, it's the whole old-school Armageddon, Gog/Magog thing, for a new generation.
posted by Celsius1414 at 2:32 PM on February 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


It's just as childish and stupid when it's applied to politicians from other parties.

You're engaged in false equivalences, plus you're being a poopy head.
posted by Celsius1414 at 2:33 PM on February 15, 2017 [16 favorites]


I'm 32 years old. I've been aware of Trump my entire life. He's never not been a joke. Just a tacky rich buffoon we could all laugh at from a distance. The most baffling thing over the course of this election is how many people seemed to forget that.
posted by downtohisturtles at 2:33 PM on February 15, 2017 [56 favorites]


> you'd think a community of bookwormy nerds like this would hold Dumbledore's advice about using proper names in higher regard
posted by prize bull octorok at 2:25 PM on February 15 [+] [!]


Dumbledore gave a lot of terrible advice. His advice to use Voldemort's name is a small but significant example of Dumbledore's foolishness. As shown in Deathly Hallows, it's best to avoid using the name of an evil wizard when said wizard has the power to place magical tracking devices on anyone who uses his name.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 2:35 PM on February 15, 2017 [23 favorites]


Hey, it's the whole old-school Armageddon, Gog/Magog thing, for a new generation.

Where's Hal Lindsey when you really need him? If the Religious Right ever turn on Trump, they'll get a lot of fun (and bad) eschatology out of him.
posted by honestcoyote at 2:36 PM on February 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


Rowling turns out to have been rather predictive when it comes to term searching Nazi shitbags.
posted by Artw at 2:36 PM on February 15, 2017 [15 favorites]


I have trouble calling the president by his name because my first childhood memories of Trump are as a joke in Bloom County. I wasn't even really aware that he was a real dude until...10 years ago? And now this. It's like Dominos' The Noid becoming president. President Noid.

It's difficult to call him by the same name now that he's become an insane fascist dictator with the power to destroy humanity on a whim. Seems like normalizing but somehow worse; don't know if there's a word for it.
posted by Rust Moranis at 2:37 PM on February 15, 2017 [27 favorites]


I do kind of wish everyone had settled on President Chump.
posted by snuffleupagus at 2:38 PM on February 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


I'm still with Cher. President 🚽.
posted by tobascodagama at 2:40 PM on February 15, 2017 [7 favorites]


This week's Economist (with that cover) has a good overview of, among other things, Trump's potential involvement with Russia and Syria. (In summary: difficult, difficult, lemon difficult.)
posted by Quagkapi at 2:40 PM on February 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


Ya I remember his wife Ivana and that there was a show called The Apprentice. The birtherism thing I remember because Obama was bagging and tagging Bin Laden at the same time.

Did he really register enough to be considered a clown outside of NYC? He just seemed like a minor TV celebrity with a fake business career to me. Finding out he had an actual business career was a genuine shock.
posted by Yowser at 2:41 PM on February 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


As shown in Deathly Hallows, it's best to avoid using the name of an evil wizard when said wizard has the power to place magical tracking devices on anyone who uses his name.

An edge case & he was confident Harry could manage the risk. Which he did after a brief firefight.
posted by scalefree at 2:41 PM on February 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


Yeah, well, RIP your mentions mate.
posted by Artw at 2:42 PM on February 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


He's never not been a joke. Just a tacky rich buffoon we could all laugh at from a distance. The most baffling thing over the course of this election is how many people seemed to forget that.

One thing I've been wondering for months is, just like there's an alternate reality for people who only watch Fox News, is there an alternate reality for people who always saw Trump as a virile, powerful figure? Like, I always thought the appeal of the Apprentice is that he was an obvious buffoon, but were people watching it with genuine admiration for him as a serious leader? Mind-boggling.
posted by Mavri at 2:48 PM on February 15, 2017 [18 favorites]


I do kind of wish everyone had settled on President Chump.

I've been partial to Chickpea.

Whats the difference between a garbanzo bean and a chickpea ?

Trump is not known to have had a garbanzo bean on him.

posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 2:49 PM on February 15, 2017 [13 favorites]




That anyone takes Trump seriously as a serious business guy I always chalked up to the immense volume of truly blowful bosses out there.
posted by Kitty Stardust at 2:50 PM on February 15, 2017


Didn't we already do the "what to call the President" meta already, you know, over in meta?
posted by zachlipton at 2:50 PM on February 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


but were people watching it with genuine admiration for him as a serious leader? Mind-boggling.
look, some people watch monster trucks and take what they've learned there right into normal traffic. There are no boundaries to that kind of behavior.
posted by Namlit at 2:51 PM on February 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


We can call this president "Meta"
posted by Namlit at 2:52 PM on February 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


I never meta president I liked less.
posted by kelborel at 2:53 PM on February 15, 2017 [16 favorites]


I've been partial to Chickpea.

Only flaw in that is that chickpea in Latin is "cicero," as in Marcus Tullius Cicero, who was widely known as an orator.
posted by adamg at 2:54 PM on February 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


We should open a MeTa and have a poll on the preferred name to use in the political threads, for those who wish not to use his name.
posted by OHenryPacey at 2:54 PM on February 15, 2017


Metta World War
posted by Rust Moranis at 2:55 PM on February 15, 2017 [16 favorites]


"cicero," as in Marcus Tullius Cicero, who was widely known as an orator.

Ok, ironically, then.
posted by porpoise at 2:55 PM on February 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


Look, we're all coping however we can. Use your context clues and let us have this.
posted by emjaybee at 2:56 PM on February 15, 2017 [23 favorites]


We should open a MeTa and have a poll on the preferred name to use

Bannocks, I mean, bollocks
posted by Namlit at 2:56 PM on February 15, 2017


have a poll on the preferred name to use

Donald (or Donnie) was good enough for Hillary Rodham Clinton.
posted by porpoise at 2:57 PM on February 15, 2017 [6 favorites]


If he didn't start our rich, they wouldn't let him run a Redbox kiosk.
posted by Kitty Stardust at 2:57 PM on February 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


Russian Spy Ship Spotted 30 Miles Off Connecticut Coast Near Naval Base

"Democratic Rep. Joe Courtney, who serves on the Armed Services Committee and is the ranking member of the Seapower and Projection Forces Subcommittee, called it an "unacceptable, aggressive action."

"A Russian spy ship patrolling 30 miles from the Groton SUBASE underscores that the threats posed by a resurgent Russia are real," Courtney said in a press release.

On Wednesday, Democratic Sen. Chris Murphy tweeted that Russia "is acting like it has a permission slip to expand influence" and "test limits" by placing a ship so close to the United States."
posted by Tarumba at 2:58 PM on February 15, 2017 [6 favorites]


“Pudzer” sounds like a plausible Yiddish insult; perhaps one meaning someone afflicted by a combination of clumsiness and chronic misfortune, or something like that.
posted by acb at 2:59 PM on February 15, 2017 [8 favorites]


Where's Hal Lindsey when you really need him? If the Religious Right ever turn on Trump, they'll get a lot of fun (and bad) eschatology out of him.

I fully believe that if trump were to sign an executive order tomorrow requiring all citizens to have 666 tattooed on their wrist or forehead in order to purchase food, a significant percentage of Christian Conservatives would happily comply, so long as it was couched in the proper code words (e.g., "fighting terror", "securing our borders", etc.).
posted by Atom Eyes at 2:59 PM on February 15, 2017 [22 favorites]


Re: Using nicknames. If I do it here, it's for fun. If I do it on Twitter or Facebook it's literally so that whatever I'm saying doesn't come up in a search for his name, so his rabid idiot followers don't start spewing barf at me.
posted by dnash at 3:01 PM on February 15, 2017 [19 favorites]


But the official emphasized that any decision is ultimately up to President Donald Trump, who has ordered his defense secretary to come up with a proposal to combat ISIS before the end of the month.
...recently, he has claimed that he would give his team of generals “special instruction” to devise a 30-day plan to eradicate the threat from ISIS. “They will have 30 days to submit to the Oval Office a plan for soundly and quickly defeating ISIS. We have no choice,” he told ABC News.

So logically, Lauer’s question was, “So, is the plan you’ve been hiding this whole time asking someone else for their plan?”

Trump simply offered, “No. But when I do come up with a plan that I like, and that perhaps agrees with mine — or maybe doesn’t — I may love what the generals come back with — ”

“But you have your own plan?” Lauer sought to clarify.

“I have a plan, but I don’t wanna be, look — I have a very substantial chance of winning,” he stammered...
posted by kirkaracha at 3:01 PM on February 15, 2017 [8 favorites]


As far as Trump's appeal during Apprentice days, I think it was that little hand-stabby gestured Trump made when he said "You're fired" it was like he had the power to make people grovel before him and then dismiss them with stubby fingers and a let's be honest some weird fascistic catchphrase. "You're fired" was as close as you got as watching somebody effortlessly killing a person's soul. In this capitalistic enterprise, it's like getting to operate the execution death serum.

And I never really sat down and watched the show more than a couple of times. Enough to know that Omorosa is crazy but I've been to down to refresh my recollection on that point. But the climax of every show was Trump symbolically executing somebody.

To conclude, I feel like the only way this shit show could happen, aside from Russia and Comey, was that Trump had his hand on some primal part of the human brain. The stern Dad. I don't fucking know.
posted by angrycat at 3:02 PM on February 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


"Re: Using nicknames. If I do it here, it's for fun. If I do it on Twitter or Facebook it's literally so that whatever I'm saying doesn't come up in a search for his name, so his rabid idiot followers don't start spewing barf at me."

I'm a little surprised that I've never seen a deplorable lose their shit here. Is it the $5 or are moderators that quick?
posted by Tarumba at 3:03 PM on February 15, 2017 [20 favorites]


Did he really register enough to be considered a clown outside of NYC?

If you read SPY magazine, yes.
posted by Room 641-A at 3:04 PM on February 15, 2017 [13 favorites]


Didn't we already do the "what to call the President" meta already, you know, over in meta?

I thought we landed on SCROTUS.
posted by Talez at 3:04 PM on February 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


I'm a little surprised that I've never seen a deplorable lose their shit here. Is it the $5 or are moderators that quick?

Bullies don't like the odds here.
posted by emjaybee at 3:06 PM on February 15, 2017 [24 favorites]


I'm a little surprised that I've never seen a deplorable lose their shit here. Is it the $5 or are moderators that quick?

We have one NeverTrumper, a couple BernieorBusters, and the rest of us appear to be in the Clinton Camp. I'm not sure there are any deplorables here?
posted by Justinian at 3:06 PM on February 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


One thing I've been wondering for months is, just like there's an alternate reality for people who only watch Fox News

Many years ago, my Tea-Party loving former boss would regale me with endless plot descriptions of that terrible Gene Simmons reality show. She was so impressed by his family dynamics and loved what kind of man he was. This was a nice break from her usual anti-Obama insanity but it did make it even clearer that, yes, people who buy into the Fox News brand do have their critical wires crossed. Anything that is obvious bullshit is accepted as the way things are and anything with even a shred of credibility is obviously some sort of ruse meant to trick them.
posted by AtoBtoA at 3:07 PM on February 15, 2017 [6 favorites]


More on Trump's non-answer to the antisemitism question
Instead, Trump spent several sentences — 49 words, to be exact — recalling that he had won 306 electoral votes in the 2016 election when people said he couldn't even win 220 or 221. “And there's tremendous enthusiasm out there,” he added. (I didn't count that sentence in the 49 words; if you do, you wind up with 55 words dedicated to his victory.)
posted by zakur at 3:07 PM on February 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


Russian Spy Ship Spotted 30 Miles Off Connecticut Coast Near Naval Base

The Russians Are Coming, the Russians Are Coming
posted by kirkaracha at 3:08 PM on February 15, 2017


Yeah as much as I dislike the nickname thing, because literally a few months ago I was mocking the Right for doing it, mostly the issue is that PEOPLE ARE GETTING CONFUSED. It's difficult to parse and understand, and I thought people had agreed to Lord Dampnut and now it's SCROTUS and there are people who are just using random letter scramblers or something and DEAR GOD SOME OF US ARE ON DRUGS HERE.
posted by threeturtles at 3:08 PM on February 15, 2017 [51 favorites]


I'm not sure there are any deplorables here?

there were a couple, when it was still all silliness and centipede memes and we were 100% certain he wouldn't win.
posted by prize bull octorok at 3:10 PM on February 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


Add NPR's Steve Inskeep to the list of journalists who have started to grow a spine. From this morning's interview with Republican Rep. Mike Johnson of Louisiana, who's on the House Judiciary Committee, in which Johnson says

1) Rand Paul didn't really mean "party before country" when he said "I just don't think it's useful to be doing investigation after investigation, particularly of your own party," he was talking about "a discussion about mechanics and procedure. It's not party over country at all." And
2) the real crime here is that the intelligence community is leaking information, not the fact Flynn lied about being in communication with Russia, which was part of
[a] sequence of events that made some people suspicious, even from the outside, of - President Obama imposed sanctions and expelled from Russian diplomats from the U.S. after these revelations, then Michael Flynn speaks with Sergey Kislyak, the Russian ambassador. And 24 hours later, Vladimir Putin says he won't expel U.S. diplomats from Russia.
Yeah, so no worries about _rump being in the pocket of Russia, maybe even leaking information to Putin. No, let's get those leakers in jail and keep things running as they should, with the GOP in power of everything and responsible for nothing.
posted by filthy light thief at 3:11 PM on February 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


Hrm. I just for reasons of having an old tag open on my iPad revisited the doomsday predictions in the Bannock, no, Bannon thread. It's not that long ago, and jeez how pessimistic we all were. I feel that too much levity here might conceal the seriousness of it all etc. We don't only have the orange fluff-hair buffoon, there are other people behind him who are younger and scarier.

Then again, nicknames! You're gonna love them, they're great (Pocahontas, anyone?).
posted by Namlit at 3:12 PM on February 15, 2017


Less than a month, and there are things I've ALREADY FORGOTTEN EVEN HAPPENED that would be breathtaking in any other presidency. Just. So. Much. Shit.

STRAIGHT UP DOG SHIT RIGHT IN YOUR GOD DAMNED FACE

$20 SAIT
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 3:13 PM on February 15, 2017 [19 favorites]


As far as I can tell from comments sections. Facebook etc... it makes absolutely no difference to them if anyone is listening or not. Also they seem completeky unaware of the context of their comments, going off on more or less the same rant no matter what, and they copy and paste A LOT, which may limit some of the effectiveness of hellbanning as a means of wasting their time.
posted by Artw at 3:15 PM on February 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


Mod note: Couple deleted; maybe let's cap the who's-on-Mefi-related sidebar here.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 3:19 PM on February 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


There's a report the campaign is buying local radio ads in Florida ahead of the rally. It just never stops.
posted by zachlipton at 3:19 PM on February 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


“Tell on Trump,” John Cook, Gizmodo Special Projects Desk, 15 February 2017
Through targeted ads on Facebook, we’re reaching out to users who list federal agencies as their employers, and we are exploring ways to advertise in public spaces near federal buildings in Washington, D.C. If you work in the federal bureaucracy and want to bear witness, anonymously or otherwise, to the way the Trump Administration is asserting its authority, we are here to listen. And if you know someone who works for the government and may have information to share, please direct them to TellOnTrump.com.
posted by ob1quixote at 3:21 PM on February 15, 2017 [17 favorites]


There's a report the campaign is buying local radio ads in Florida ahead of the rally. It just never stops.

Gotta spend whatever's leftover in the cash-on-hand account before declaring bankruptcy and stiffing the campaign's creditors -- I guess...
posted by mikelieman at 3:22 PM on February 15, 2017


Steve Bannon 'livid' with Breitbart over Priebus report

"Not upset - livid," is how Bannon described his feelings about the article to CNN. "The story is totally untrue. Reince is doing a great job. I couldn't ask any more from a partner."

He's really pushing the "Bannon-and-Priebus, Sittin' in a Tree, Plotting Genocide of You and Me" narrative but I ain't buying it, Steve.
posted by Rust Moranis at 3:23 PM on February 15, 2017 [25 favorites]


"You're just going on the people who want to argue in public"

Yeah in my most dystopian nightmares during the last year I have become painfully aware that these conversations are not just between us, and among the lovely lurkers there could be a couple of trumpers who now know all my dirty laundry including the fact that I once posted a melodramatically phrased question on starting a low carb diet and the next week another question on what is the best mixer for bread making.
posted by Tarumba at 3:24 PM on February 15, 2017 [33 favorites]


Slight derail in regards to "The Apprentice": I'm happy to say that the only reality show I have watched for an entire season was the first run of "The Apprentice". You know what I liked most from it? The last two contestants were given some luxury rooms at one of Trump's resorts as the prize for winning the penultimate round. There's a shot of them sitting on a balcony, kicking back and enjoying the moment as well as each other's company.

I'm sure the moment was manufactured, but in all other respects the last two contestants seemed like genuinely nice, smart people and they were respectful of each other.

Given that this "May the best man win" soon gave way to "I'M NOT HERE TO MAKE FRIENDS!" in later seasons is probably the main reason I haven't watched any reality TV since. And the fact that Trump chose from many contestants Omarosa, who best exemplified that later mantra from his show, to be in the White House is very telling.
posted by AlonzoMosleyFBI at 3:25 PM on February 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


Chemi Shalev, Haaretz, Netanyahu's High With Trump Portends an Inevitable Fall
But if Netanyahu and Trump threw some crumbs at leftists and peaceniks so they needn’t get too despondent, this was not the case with American Jews, who were stabbed in the back by Netanyahu just before he threw them under the bus. Given an opportunity by the courageous Israeli reporter Moav Vardi to finally convey some faint criticism of the anti-Semitism that has sprouted under Trump’s wings or to utter a mild expression of empathy with the fears and anxieties of American Jews, Netanyahu preferred to shamelessly lick Trump’s boots and to curry favor with his staff, including its white supremacists, and to grant them a kosher certificate and total clemency. For Netanyahu, the self-proclaimed leader of the Jewish people who pounces on any manifestation of anti-Semitism in countries less enamored with his charms, it was a moment that will live in infamy.

Trump’s reaction to the same question was even stranger. After brandishing his Jewish daughter, son in law and grandchildren - who apparently render him above suspicion of malice towards Jews - Trump mumbled something about how love will conquer all, a formula that he may hazily recall from his youth. It was a stark reminder of the dysfunctional setting for the press conference, eerily convened before the two leaders actually met, rather than after. Netanyahu’s presence, after all, did not change the fact that the president of the U.S. is mostly ignorant about world affairs, apparently unable to tell fact from fantasy and singularly devoted to making himself great again, as if he wasn’t before. When Trump indicated that the possible compromise of his national security adviser was nothing compared to the people who leaked the information about him and the newspapers that published it, Netanyahu watched and smiled, with glee and possibly envy. But Trump’s battiness should serve as a warning signal: As long as Netanyahu praises Trump as he did on Wednesday, as long as he doesn’t cross him or insult him, the prime minister will continue to be welcomed and embraced. But when he won’t - and that moment will come - he will fondly remember the great opening night he had in Washington, from which he could only fall.
posted by zachlipton at 3:28 PM on February 15, 2017 [20 favorites]


have you seen the movie The Madness of King Trump?
posted by robbyrobs at 3:30 PM on February 15, 2017


That editorial from retired federal judge and lifelong republican Richard Painter is good stuff, concluding:

All the above bothers me and should appall all Americans. We must admit we have elected a president who has immediately proved himself to be a grifter, a pathological liar, a mean-spirited bully and dangerous to American values. This not-ready-for-prime-time show is too dangerous to continue. America is at stake.

If you need help drafting those articles of impeachment, Steve, I am available.

posted by spitbull at 3:30 PM on February 15, 2017 [11 favorites]


More about the EPA bill and planned protests against Rep. Matt Gaetz.

Republican Behind ‘Abolish’ EPA Bill Is Taking Heat. His Armed ‘Friend’ Wants To Quiet Protesters.

-- Throngs of protesters, organized by the local Democratic Women’s Club, plan to meet him there to demand he end his crusade against the embattled EPA. A local Tea Party agitator vowed to muster militiamen to prevent “these Marxists” from “disrupting” the event. A faction of Bikers for Trump...

-- “I need all patriots in attendance to protect Congressman Gaetz from any potential disruption of his speech,” Geoff Ross, the purported militia leader, wrote in a call-out on his private Facebook page. “Concealed carry permit holders most welcome - don’t forget your ammo.”


-- “Everyone is welcome to attend and participate in a peaceful, non-disruptive manner,” Gaetz wrote. “That is exactly what my friend Geoff Ross intends to do. My liberal friends should know that not every gathering of Republicans exercising their rights is dangerous.”

ugh.
posted by futz at 3:33 PM on February 15, 2017 [6 favorites]


No different than what Sheriff Clarke spouts.
posted by snuffleupagus at 3:37 PM on February 15, 2017


Whoops. MARK Painter, not Richard.
posted by spitbull at 3:38 PM on February 15, 2017


I can't figure out what to make of Bannon going off on Breitbart's report about Priebus. Either he can no longer control his own media outlet, or he changed his mind and decided to make them the fall guys while he tries to patch up a relationship he was just hours ago trying to sabotage. Either way makes him look pretty damn stupid.
posted by jackbishop at 3:39 PM on February 15, 2017 [8 favorites]


who has immediately proved himself to be a grifter,....etc.

WTF? someone wasn't paying attention at all for the past 30 years. I mean, it's nice and all that he's got the courage to say this now, but c'mon, how far into the sand (or up your own ass) was your head in november? oh yeah, her emails.
posted by OHenryPacey at 3:42 PM on February 15, 2017 [7 favorites]


I think Bannon's publicly putting on a show of loving Priebus to calm the (too late) fears of elected GOP officials and the GOP establishment behind them. The surreptitious Breitbart "Priebus-as-Globalist-Mole" stuff satisfies Trumpists. He's playing both sides here and the only one who will suffer for it will be Priebus.
posted by Rust Moranis at 3:43 PM on February 15, 2017 [6 favorites]




It's like both trump and Bannon are trying to distance themselves from Putin and Breitbart respectively.

It seems like an act.
posted by Tarumba at 3:47 PM on February 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


I feel like people might be jumping the gun on this Syria thing, does anyone even know if it's the Trump "team up with Assad/Putin & wipe out ISIS" idea or the Deep State/Clinton "team up with Islamists, regime change, install Saudi/USG friendly dictator" idea?
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 3:51 PM on February 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


6:07pm U.S. EPA staff told to prepare for Trump executive orders: sources

Thank the nerds for the backup effort. I only wish I had the harddrive space to contribute more than seeding the couple torrent files I grabbed.
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:51 PM on February 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


McCain: "Who’s making the decisions in the White House? Is it the 31-year-old? Is it Mister Bannon? ... They need to clean up their act."

I'll take the obvious bet that he will continue to actually do fuck all about it though.
posted by zachlipton at 3:52 PM on February 15, 2017 [22 favorites]


Why Puzder?

Mostly because he was caught hiring an undocumented worker, which undercut him a lot with the right wing. That undercut the willingness to defend him on spousal abuse. Also, Oprah has a huge following among women of a certain age in both parties.
posted by msalt at 3:52 PM on February 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


I think Bannon is actually pretty stupid, or at least significantly more stupid than he thinks he is. I have met a handful of brilliant people in my life and none of them have been remotely as…openly hubristic as Bannon is. He relishes his own cleverness in a way that only the stupid do.
posted by sallybrown at 3:53 PM on February 15, 2017 [56 favorites]


NY TIMES Opinion: An Eminent Psychiatrist Demurs on Trump’s Mental State
, Allen Frances
Most amateur diagnosticians have mislabeled President Trump with the diagnosis of narcissistic personality disorder. I wrote the criteria that define this disorder, and Mr. Trump doesn’t meet them. He may be a world-class narcissist, but this doesn’t make him mentally ill, because he does not suffer from the distress and impairment required to diagnose mental disorder.

Mr. Trump causes severe distress rather than experiencing it and has been richly rewarded, rather than punished, for his grandiosity, self-absorption and lack of empathy. It is a stigmatizing insult to the mentally ill (who are mostly well behaved and well meaning) to be lumped with Mr. Trump (who is neither).
posted by the man of twists and turns at 3:53 PM on February 15, 2017 [28 favorites]


I loved The Apprentice (especially Celebrity Apprentice), my whole family did, actually. But it's not about Stern Dad as much as it's like watching a toddler in the body of a grown man. I loved it the way I love the movie Clifford, where Martin Short (as an adult) plays a demented child. It's as if Trump is his own breed of clown, or something.
posted by sallybrown at 3:56 PM on February 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


I'm 32 years old. I've been aware of Trump my entire life. He's never not been a joke. Just a tacky rich buffoon we could all laugh at from a distance. The most baffling thing over the course of this election is how many people seemed to forget that.

Apparently people from the NYC area new about him as just a rich asshole, but not quite as the buffoon we know and (don't) love today.

I'm 36 and from Los Angeles and my first exposure was Garry Trudeau making fun of him in Doonesbury.

However, lots of people buy into the "rich == smart businessman" bullshit, and those people will never ever see Trump as a joke.
posted by sideshow at 3:58 PM on February 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


Why Puzder?

Not only he hired an immigrant (and beat his wife, but that hardly seems to be part of it) the real reason is he wasn't anti-immigration enough [Warning, National Review].
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:01 PM on February 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


Hey, have you heard? Majority of Americans are seriously stressed out about the future of the country.
“The fact that two-thirds of Americans are saying the future of the nation is causing them stress, it is a startling number,” Wright said. “It seems to suggest that what people thought would happen, that there would be relief [after the election] did not occur, and instead since the election, stress has increased. And not only did overall stress increase, what we found in January is the highest significant increase in stress in 10 years. That’s stunning.”

Wright suggests the best way to ease stress related to what’s happening in Washington is to disentangle yourself from the minute-by-minute deluge of negative news.
So no more Metafilter politics threads, I guess. ;-)
posted by zakur at 4:01 PM on February 15, 2017 [16 favorites]


This commercial from last summer really needs to be pushed back on TV and social media. Just to remind people that are shocked by recent events that this didn't all appear out of nowhere.
posted by saucysault at 4:02 PM on February 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


Github link to the Climate Mirror effort, if anyone happens to have bought a NAS full of 10gb harddrives or something lately.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:03 PM on February 15, 2017 [8 favorites]


I feel like people might be jumping the gun on this Syria thing, does anyone even know if it's the Trump "team up with Assad/Putin & wipe out ISIS" idea or the Deep State/Clinton "team up with Islamists, regime change, install Saudi/USG friendly dictator" idea?

I assume this specific thing is some military higher-up trying to get their pet idea out into the discourse, aware that President Trump apparently pays more attention to media coverage than he does to the official lines of communication within the government.

It's not so much dangerous, in my mind, in that it means "we're about to get into a ground war in Syria", but it's just another red-flashing indicator that the norms of government are disintegrating at approximately the speed of the Larsen B ice shelf, not just across the House and Senate, not just in the West Wing, but across the Federal government, within the intelligence services and even, looks like, the military.

The government is less and less stable by the day. I imagine that federal employees are looking at the chaos from the top; the bizarre, sweeping, vague executive orders; and the whiplashed, half-assed policy declarations coming from the President's twitter account and thinking, "what the hell do I do with this? What is my legal, my Constitutional, my moral obligation here?"
posted by tivalasvegas at 4:05 PM on February 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


Allen Frances has a hobby horse about narrowly restricting psychiatric diagnoses which I support in principle but which he sometimes takes to illogical extremes.
I'm a therapist. I work with a bunch of other therapists. Water cooler discussions about the current president's mental health are unanimous on the NPD with maybe a little antisocial personality disorder in there.
DSM criteria generally require that symptoms either cause significant (subjective) distress or significantly impact functioning.
I think it's safe to say his social and vocational functioning are impacted and we'd have to ask him about his own subjective levels of distress, but they are not required for diagnosis.
posted by Waiting for Pierce Inverarity at 4:06 PM on February 15, 2017 [30 favorites]


More of this please.

Analyst Downgrades Under Armour Stock After Its CEO Praises Donald Trump (warning autoplay)
CEO Kevin Plank’s recent comment that Trump was a “real asset” to the country drew rebukes from Under Armour’s own celebrity endorsers, including NBA star Steph Curry. The controversy, along with broader concerns about Under Armour’s valuation and slowing growth, led Susquehanna’s Sam Poser to downgrade the stock to negative from neutral.

Plank’s pro-Trump commentary makes it “nearly impossible to effectively build a cool urban lifestyle brand in the foreseeable future,” Poser said in a report. He also cut his stock-price target to $14 from $24, putting him at the low end of Wall Street peers.

“At this point we don’t believe Under Armour is in danger of losing Steph Curry,” Poser said. “However, it simply cannot be good for business if the face of Under Armour spoke out so pointedly against the CEO’s comments. Other Under Armour brand athletes such as Dwayne ‘The Rock’ Johnson and Misty Copeland have also spoken out against Mr. Plank’s comments.”
posted by chris24 at 4:07 PM on February 15, 2017 [17 favorites]


Wright suggests the best way to ease stress related to what’s happening in Washington is to disentangle yourself from the minute-by-minute deluge of negative news. So no more Metafilter politics threads, I guess. ;-)

My therapist literally told me the same thing yesterday.

And yet here I am.
posted by mudpuppie at 4:11 PM on February 15, 2017 [8 favorites]


DC preps for 'Day Without Immigrants,' but Hill takes little notice

Restaurants in the DC area were planning to operate with short staff, offer menus in solidarity with striking immigrants and in some cases, close altogether.

Celebrity chef José Andrés, who is locked in a lawsuit with President Donald Trump for pulling his restaurant from the Trump hotel project in Washington over Trump's anti-undocumented immigrant rhetoric, announced he would close most of his restaurants Thursday as part of the protest.

The Trump International Hotel did not respond to a request for comment on its plans for Thursday.
<--- That would be shade.
posted by futz at 4:11 PM on February 15, 2017 [10 favorites]


Now that things are starting to unravel, my own stress level is starting to go down a bit actually. I mean I still have existential dread about a conflict with North Korea or China in the next few months, but the administration's ineptitude has begun to seriously hobble their own ability to make things happen as they are forced to expend so much energy playing defense.
Look at the rally. No way was that a scheduled thing. I mean it's in Fla, and he was going to be at M-A-L anyway, but you hafta figure he was planning on playing golf not doing a stump speech.
Every minute he's trying to re-energize his base is a minute he can't focus on doing actual evil.
As for the buyer's remorse republicans, i'm happy to have them join the chorus, but feel nothing but schadenfreude if they are now stressed over a future that's bleaker than they imagined.
posted by OHenryPacey at 4:17 PM on February 15, 2017 [3 favorites]




I grew up in a bedroom community north of Boston. My mom's second husband owned a hardcover copy of The Art of the Deal, which he kept in the van he used for his roofing business. Mom divorced her second husband after he tried to kill her, and I came to associate 45 with a certain kind of violent dirtbag. Draw from that what you will.
posted by pxe2000 at 4:24 PM on February 15, 2017 [42 favorites]


Under Armour's CEO Bought a Full-Page Newspaper Ad to Say He Didn't Mean to Praise Trump

"What Is This I Can't Even" All Time Champion 2017 Nominee
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:40 PM on February 15, 2017 [10 favorites]


How does one delegitimize, destabilize, discredit, destroy, humble, shame, inflict great pain upon and eviscerate...FOX NEWS and similar media outlets? Serious question.

Those bastards are the Propaganda Wing of the Republican Party.

No matter what happens with investigations, impeachments, hearings, prison terms etc. the United States will never recover as long as those fuckers disguise and promote the real enemy as our "heroes". They have convinced much of the U.S. citizenry to vote for and promote assholes who are guaranteed to cause them to lose jobs, lose security, lose healthcare and lose general well being.

Many other things must happen too, but this is crucial to our being able to recover, repair the damage and actually have a future as a Nation of United States.
posted by snsranch at 4:41 PM on February 15, 2017 [13 favorites]


Reinstate the Equal-time rule??
Personally I'd like to see that (imperfect as it was)
and it's never coming back
posted by Golem XIV at 4:45 PM on February 15, 2017 [6 favorites]


Melania Trump To Keep Michelle Obama's Garden.

yay for small but awesome victories.
posted by futz at 4:47 PM on February 15, 2017 [42 favorites]


Even the equal time rule's not going to save things when one side is committed to repeating lies as though they were equivalent to truths, and not being challenged on it.
posted by Archelaus at 4:47 PM on February 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


How does one delegitimize, destabilize, discredit, destroy, humble, shame, inflict great pain upon and eviscerate...FOX NEWS and similar media outlets? Serious question.

Boycott companies that run adverts on the network? There's been some work on that for Breitbart and other various companies that do business with the Trumps.

Hitting them in the pocket book has often been an effective strategy to get capitalistic enterprises to get it together.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 4:52 PM on February 15, 2017 [16 favorites]


Target their (Fauxnews) sponsors. economic pressure is the modern way.
posted by OHenryPacey at 4:54 PM on February 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


Wright suggests the best way to ease stress related to what’s happening in Washington is to disentangle yourself from the minute-by-minute deluge of negative news. So no more Metafilter politics threads, I guess.

I did this for, like, a good couple months to ease stress, but then the Muslim ban was an abrupt and unwelcome reminder like a bullhorn to my ear all: YOU CANNOT AFFORD TO IGNORE THE NEWS, IF YOU WON'T COME TO STRESS, STRESS WILL COME TO YOU. What's happening in Washington might very well have some very immediate and very personal impacts on my life and safety, so uh, not sure that I have any good options re news consumption.
posted by yasaman at 4:55 PM on February 15, 2017 [43 favorites]


How does one delegitimize, destabilize, discredit, destroy, humble, shame, inflict great pain upon and eviscerate...FOX NEWS and similar media outlets? Serious question.


We need our own propaganda wing. Serious answer. Fox gets to operate like it does because there is no liberal counterpart. We need to reinsert lefty propaganda back into the national discourse, and it has to be as scrupulous and biased as Fox is unscrupulous and biased. Fox gets all the ire from the left while CNN get to preach soft conservativism as the center. We need one of those, and we need its mission to be, very expressly, preaching to the American left and calling the BS of the right, so it can function as the lightning rod for the right while allowing the rest of journalism to truly preach the center.
posted by saysthis at 4:55 PM on February 15, 2017 [7 favorites]


> Target their sponsors. economic pressure is the modern way.

And more broadly speaking, anything that drives up their cost of doing business is good.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 4:57 PM on February 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


what the fuck happened today that warranted ~850 comments?
posted by indubitable at 4:57 PM on February 15, 2017 [9 favorites]


Wright suggests the best way to ease stress related to what’s happening in Washington is to disentangle yourself from the minute-by-minute deluge of negative news. So no more Metafilter politics threads, I guess.

Right, I'm off on vacation so which should take care of that. Hopefully I'll be allowed back in the country and/or we have a functioning government when I get back...
posted by TwoWordReview at 4:58 PM on February 15, 2017


And

what the fuck happened today that warranted ~850 comments?
posted by indubitable at 8:57 AM on February 16 [+] [!]


The usual.
https://whatthefuckjusthappenedtoday.com/
posted by saysthis at 4:59 PM on February 15, 2017 [33 favorites]


@roycooper White House currently has maybe 20 key staffers and 10 of them spend the day telling media why the other 10 should be fired. It's week four.

Gee whiz, guys, I'm beginning to think that DJT's adversarial style of management is not working out so great.

Salt Lake Tribune: Editorial: Chaffetz should investigate, not emulate, the president
Chaffetz should realize soon, if he hasn't already, that the president hasn't just plowed this ground, he has already salted the fields for anyone who may come after. This crew — dubbed the Prevarication Administration by Washington Post columnist Margaret Sullivan — has helped to cure the national media of any hesitation it may have had and to start calling out untruths told by high government officials.

Chaffetz has not backed off of his fanciful claim that his audience was full of ringers.
I don't know why the Chaffetz drama should irk me so-- he is not my congressman-- but it bothers me to no end that he feels free to take money from out of state donors yet label his own electorate as out of state rabble rousers. It goes everything Democracy stands for. We the people vote to elect people to represent us and be our voice in the government yet so many "Representatives" are turning away from their electorate to support big money donors and above all The Party.

Isn't this what we fought the Revolutionary War over? We wanted to have our say in government, not be ruled over by out-of-touch aristocrats. Yet here we are. Our Republican Representatives don't answer their phones, they don't hold town halls, they don't respond to emails or faxes or letters. Our desires, fears, needs are of no consequence to them. I know the answer is voting the bastards out but I don't want to wait while they dismantle all of the safeguards, the safety nets, the environmental protections that are in place now. The rabble are beginning to rise up and I'm sharpening my pitchfork.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:59 PM on February 15, 2017 [72 favorites]


> We need one of those, and we need its mission to be, very expressly, preaching to the American left and calling the BS of the right, so it can function as the lightning rod for the right while allowing the rest of journalism to truly preach the center.

To this I'd add, though, the caveat that the propaganda outlet has to be in some way useful to readers beyond its function as a propaganda outlet. Otherwise, you're left with something like the newspapers that Trotskyists sell and that no one reads, or like the dreadful Bush-era Air America liberal radio talk network. Push the party line, sure — but also provide arts and entertainment coverage, sports coverage, science coverage, home improvement tips, etc. etc.

Although I never liked Gawker itself, I think maybe the Gawker empire is a good model here. Gizmodo, Jezebel, Deadspin, Kotaku, Jalopnik and so forth all have clear political slants, but provide content that's worth reading for people who aren't already interested in those political slants.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 5:07 PM on February 15, 2017 [16 favorites]


> Isn't this what we fought the Revolutionary War over? We wanted to have our say in government, not be ruled over by out-of-touch aristocrats.

I mean that's the cover story, but really we fought the Revolutionary War because the local bourgeoisie wanted political power to match their economic power.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 5:11 PM on February 15, 2017 [27 favorites]


The increasingly-so-essential-I-don't-know-how-we-got-this-long-without-him R. Eric Thomas, who brought us the incredible Congresswoman Maxine Waters Will Read You Now (previously on the blue) now gifts us: Yes, She Can: How Oprah Derailed Trump's Cabinet Pick, an Imagined Tale, featuring Hillary Clinton, Sally Yates, and Oprah.

I still don't know what to call Thomas's style. It's sort of in the tradition of parliamentary sketch writing, yet with, er, a lot more shade?
posted by zachlipton at 5:16 PM on February 15, 2017 [10 favorites]


Salt Lake Tribune: Editorial: Chaffetz should investigate, not emulate, the president

When you're getting called out on your own turf you know you dang fucked up.

Chaffetz needs to be reminded that apart from icky sex things like premarital sex, abortion, and gay rights, Mormons are closer to liberals than conservatives.
posted by Talez at 5:17 PM on February 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


Fox News Tip-line.

Includes e-mail and phone #.

More productive and insidious versions of baba booey perhaps?

(Mods, please delete if necessary. Seems innocuous enough, but...)
posted by snsranch at 5:17 PM on February 15, 2017


In today's terrifying Obamacare repeal news, some insurance industry types are lobbying to bring back lifetime coverage limits.
Dye believes lifetime limits will allow insurers to offer more affordable plans, which would appeal to the low-income workers who typically use his company’s plans. He understands there will be trade-offs for families like the Morrisons, but, he says, that’s true with any policy debate.

“You cannot design something that is going to solve every individual’s problem or situation,” he said when asked about what would happen to those who especially intense medical needs. “It can’t be unlimited or else you will have a tragic circumstance; a child will circuit the math for everyone else that is trying to operate within actuarial parameters.”
I'm thinking they're going to have to improve their spiel a bit, though, because even Republicans are going to have a tough time arguing that it's little Timmy's fault that he isn't "operating within actuarial parameters."
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 5:20 PM on February 15, 2017 [31 favorites]


Regarding the naming of the failing president- I try not to type out his surname, I feel like that gives him power some how. I like donnie, donnie shitstain, or Przidhent Orange Shitstain. Failing president is great as well.

Comparing any of those to the names they called Obama is not comparing apples to apples. They called Clinton "slick willy" and of course we have had tricky dick, old hickory, and any number of such monikers. I'll call it what I want. And doing so is not sinking to their level. Obama was not a muslim agent, but donnie is a fucking asshole.
posted by vrakatar at 5:21 PM on February 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


trying to operate within actuarial parameters

if everyone would just try to operate within actuarial parameters we wouldn't need all these death panels!
posted by murphy slaw at 5:22 PM on February 15, 2017 [21 favorites]


> “You cannot design something that is going to solve every individual’s problem or situation,” he said when asked about what would happen to those who especially intense medical needs. “It can’t be unlimited or else you will have a tragic circumstance; a child will circuit the math for everyone else that is trying to operate within actuarial parameters.”

tl;dr: death panels.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 5:23 PM on February 15, 2017 [29 favorites]


I suppose I owe murphy slaw a coke now?
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 5:24 PM on February 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


Hilarious also to imply that people who need unlimited coverage are somehow NOT "trying to operate within actuarial parameters." I mean, I know I personally set out intentionally to get that breast cancer diagnosis that cost my insurance company $700,000. Because I just got tired of trying to stay within the parameters.
posted by something something at 5:25 PM on February 15, 2017 [43 favorites]


if everyone would just try to operate within actuarial parameters we wouldn't need all these death panels!

tl;dr: death panels.

Spicey: "They're not death panels. They're a board who decide on a case-by-case basis if someone should receive treatment despite said person being over the lifetime limit of their policy." [fake]
posted by Talez at 5:26 PM on February 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


Good news everybody! Look what came in the mail for me today.

I, um, may have been overzealous with the amounts.
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:28 PM on February 15, 2017 [78 favorites]


Charles M Blow.

Drip, Drip, Drip
posted by futz at 5:28 PM on February 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


Hilarious also to imply that people who need unlimited coverage are somehow NOT "trying to operate within actuarial parameters." I mean, I know I personally set out intentionally to get that breast cancer diagnosis that cost my insurance company $700,000. Because I just got tired of trying to stay within the parameters.

Spicey: "Well these people who are cheating the system just keep showing up to the best hospitals expecting to be treated. They don't do any sort of comparison shopping. They don't assess if the doctor is competent enough to treat their cancer. They just land at the door of the Mayo Clinic or UCLA and expect the very best oncologists to treat them." [fake]
posted by Talez at 5:28 PM on February 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


You guys, it's not death panels. Once the Morrisons hit the million dollar lifetime limit, halfway through Timmy's NICU stay, they had the absolute freedom to pay the extra million dollars for his NICU care and then the $200,000 a year for his continuing care. If they chose not to do that, they were just exercising their sacred individual liberty.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 5:29 PM on February 15, 2017 [28 favorites]


I, um, may have been overzealous with the amounts.

you're gonna need more legislators
posted by murphy slaw at 5:29 PM on February 15, 2017 [11 favorites]


Well, I do have Pat Toomey, who's worth at least three moderately terrible legislators. Also I have a state assemblyman who I can't figure out why he's a Democrat because he's anti-choice and hates immigrants and is a former police chief. He's going to be getting a lot of those red ones.
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:31 PM on February 15, 2017 [6 favorites]


> https://whatthefuckjusthappenedtoday.com/

Wow. By my count 10 of the 13 items on that site for today would, individually, be at least a full month's worth of bad news under any normal administration.

In his History of the Russian Revolution, Trotsky bangs on for a good long while about how time seems to work differently during a revolution, with each day containing what seems like months or years worth of events. To this we can hopefully add that the same time dilation effect also happens during failed revolutions.

oh god please let it be a failed revolution
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 5:31 PM on February 15, 2017 [41 favorites]


Brb. I'm going to go register the sock puppet "Definitely Not Sean Spicer".
posted by Talez at 5:32 PM on February 15, 2017 [9 favorites]




oh god please let it be a failed revolution

it's gonna be mighty ironic if the counterrevolutionary reactionary insurgents are all leftists
posted by murphy slaw at 5:34 PM on February 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


Ugh can we have 850 comments about this? Because screw this. ICE detains domestic-violence victim in court: – Six federal immigration agents went to the El Paso County Courthouse last week and arrested an undocumented woman who had just received a protective order alleging that she was a victim of domestic violence.

The detention has alarmed county officials who fear that that the arrest will scare undocumented victims of domestic abuse into staying with their abusers for fear of being deported and separated from their children or other family members.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:37 PM on February 15, 2017 [101 favorites]


I mean the counterrevolutionary forces in '33 were, for the most part, leftists and liberals. Hopefully we're better at it than they were...
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 5:37 PM on February 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


"In today's terrifying Obamacare repeal news, some insurance industry types are lobbying to bring back lifetime coverage limits."

*blinding rage*

Counter-proposal: place insurance executives and lobbyists in pillories on public squares for pelting with rotten fruit until they surrender all of their ill-gotten wealth and use that to pay for little Timmy's surgeries and life-long care. Then possibly leave the insurance executives and lobbyists in their pillories as a warning to future generations.
posted by Hairy Lobster at 5:39 PM on February 15, 2017 [26 favorites]


Hundreds in Chicago gather to moon Trump Tower in organized protest. (YT, butts)

Spicer: "All right, let's get back to the fun. We've been reviewing -- and I want to address the events of tonight, first and foremost. We've been reviewing and evaluating this issue with respect to the mooning of Trump Tower, trying to ascertain the truth. The mooners got to a point not based on a legal issue, but based on a trust issue, where a level of trust between the mooners and Trump Tower had eroded to the point where the mooners felt they needed to bear their buttocks."
posted by Talez at 5:39 PM on February 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


Nice: Celebrity Chef Rick Bayless will close four of his restuarants for a day in support of immigrants (and donate proceeds from two others to an immigant rights charity)".A spokesman for Bayless said about 200 staff members from the affected restaurants voted Wednesday afternoon “with overwhelming support to close for the day.”

In his Facebook statement, “A Message Of Strength & Solidarity,” Bayless wrote:
“Out of respect for our staff’s vote to support Thursday’s immigrant civil actions in Chicago and elsewhere, we are closing Frontera Grill, Topolobampo, Xoco and Fonda Frontera on Thursday.”

Cruz Blanca and Leña Brava will remain open Thursday, with 10 percent of gross revenue headed to Illinois Coalition for Immigrant and Refugee Rights.

“We believe lasting change is achieved incrementally, and if you can’t participate, we encourage you make contributions to groups working to make lasting change.”

Some of the organizations Bayless suggested as donation recipients include the Illinois Coalition for Immigrant and Refugee Rights, American Civil Liberties Union, the National Immigration Law Center and the Southern Poverty Law Center.

posted by TwoStride at 5:39 PM on February 15, 2017 [24 favorites]


a child will circuit the math for everyone else that is trying to operate within actuarial parameters

How someone can say something like this without the rubbery flesh of his human mask splitting, then falling off his true face in bloody chunky gobbets to reveal the chittering mandibles of X'stz'izz, the Devourer of Sorrow and Ender of Hope, still eludes me.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 5:39 PM on February 15, 2017 [40 favorites]


tshkO42kw@1
posted by possibly sean spicer at 5:42 PM on February 15, 2017 [130 favorites]


I really hope that one's cortex, using a company fiver.
posted by yhbc at 5:45 PM on February 15, 2017 [13 favorites]


So, if you're an insurance executive and call for death panels, you get your words printed in the newspaper and your proposal is seriously considered by Congress, but if you're an undocumented immigrant who gets a protective order because your husband is hitting you, you get arrested and may be deported? What a country.
posted by zachlipton at 5:47 PM on February 15, 2017 [21 favorites]


From the link roomthreeseventeen just shared:
Especially concerning is that ICE made the El Paso arrest apparently acting on a tip from IEG’s alleged abuser, Bernal said.

Bernal, whose office is conducting an investigation into the incident, said the ICE agents said they went to court after receiving a tip. IEG’s live-in boyfriend had earlier been detained by ICE, Bernal said.

“We suspect it’s the (alleged) abuser” who tipped off ICE about the woman, Bernal said.

It’s common for abusers to seek to control undocumented partners by threatening to refer them to immigration authorities, said 65th District Judge Yahara Lisa Gutierrez, who oversees the court that issued IEG’s protective order.

“This was a victim of horrible domestic violence,” Gutierrez said.
Basically, fuck ICE forever.
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:47 PM on February 15, 2017 [76 favorites]


tshkO42kw@1

That's amazing! I've got the same combination on my luggage!
posted by Celsius1414 at 5:47 PM on February 15, 2017 [7 favorites]


a level of trust between the mooners and Trump Tower had eroded to the point where the mooners felt they needed to bear their buttocks.

grizzly bear tho, right?
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 5:48 PM on February 15, 2017


Doubts Grow That the GOP Can Repeal Obamacare

This article is a day old but it features a choice big headline photo of a glum Rand "It Makes No Sense To Investigate Republicans For Treason When There Is A Health Insurance Plan To Destroy" Paul.
posted by Sauce Trough at 5:49 PM on February 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


ICE certainly seem to be going after the real hard targets.
posted by Artw at 5:49 PM on February 15, 2017 [6 favorites]


Jared Yates Sexton brings up a good point.

What if SCROTUS decides to escape to Russia on Air Force One?
posted by Talez at 5:51 PM on February 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


SCROTUS decides to escape to Russia on Air Force One?

I didn't RTFA, but is "good riddance to bad rubbish!" an option?
posted by TwoStride at 5:52 PM on February 15, 2017 [17 favorites]


I would be okay with letting them keep it so long as they don't send him back.
posted by Artw at 5:52 PM on February 15, 2017 [13 favorites]


We needed a new Air Force One anyway.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 5:53 PM on February 15, 2017 [20 favorites]


Even if we didn't, strictly speaking, need a new one, we'd want one because.... Gross.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 5:55 PM on February 15, 2017 [13 favorites]


Would he send the Air Force One hand towels back in a reused cardboard box?
posted by zachlipton at 6:00 PM on February 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


Susan Sarandon and Josh Fox are on Chris Hayes right now. I'm so glad that the safety of the country, the rights of her fellow citizens, and the health of the planet were sacrifices Sarandon, in her ultra-rich privileged straight white lifestyle, were willing to make for her accelerationist crap.
posted by Justinian at 6:00 PM on February 15, 2017 [33 favorites]


Haven't seen a link to this, but Lindsey Graham is not equivocating.
The Russians have been trying to break the backbone of democracies all over the world, and clearly in my view, interfered in the 2016 election
Right now I feel like Princess Leia and Graham just got my R2 unit.

Also goddamn do I hate how we do text as images nowadays. Fuck twitter.
posted by Sauce Trough at 6:02 PM on February 15, 2017 [25 favorites]


You know, there are enough important things to get my blood pressure elevated over right now. There is no way I am going to bother with Susan Sarandon, and shame on Chris Hayes for even giving her the platform.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:03 PM on February 15, 2017 [7 favorites]


The Sarandon thing was insane.

Maddow is currently reading police reports from Steve Bannon's abuse of his wife and twin babies.

I have run out of evens again.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:06 PM on February 15, 2017 [11 favorites]


WSJ: Spies Keep Intelligence From Donald Trump: In some of these cases of withheld information, officials have decided not to show Mr. Trump the sources and methods that the intelligence agencies use to collect information, the current and former officials said. Those sources and methods could include, for instance, the means that an agency uses to spy on a foreign government.

A White House official said: “There is nothing that leads us to believe that this is an accurate account of what is actually happening.”

posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:11 PM on February 15, 2017 [8 favorites]


Doubts Grow That the GOP Can Repeal Obamacare

This article is a day old but it features a choice big headline photo of a glum Rand "It Makes No Sense To Investigate Republicans For Treason When There Is A Health Insurance Plan To Destroy" Paul.


From the article:
The main dividing line is between centrist-minded lawmakers urging caution and deliberation — Alexander is a leader of that faction — and conservatives demanding action now.
...can we ever stick to a consistent definition of "conservative" in this country? Conservatives are supposed to be the faction advocating "caution and deliberation"!
posted by jason_steakums at 6:12 PM on February 15, 2017 [6 favorites]


Trump will not fill out an NCAA tournament bracket

See, Obama did it, so Trump is against it. That's his only real principal (well, besides blatant grift). IT's the 'I know you are but what am I' administration. The added bonus is basketball (well the NBA) is the most progressive sports league by far. Double spite points multiplier!

Really that extends to the entire Republican party. Their only platform is liberal tears. And tax cuts.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:16 PM on February 15, 2017 [6 favorites]


Sauce Trough: Also goddamn do I hate how we do text as images nowadays.
I know, right? If you're going to go through all that effort, it should at least be handwritten.

Slobs.
posted by ragtag at 6:17 PM on February 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


A White House official said: “There is nothing that leads us to believe that this is an accurate account of what is actually happening.”

That means the IC is doing a good job!
posted by diogenes at 6:19 PM on February 15, 2017 [14 favorites]


...can we ever stick to a consistent definition of "conservative" in this country? Conservatives are supposed to be the faction advocating "caution and deliberation"!

We're long past the point where that word was definable as anything other than 'regressive, reactionary, apparatchik'.

Although nowadays just say, 'white nationalist'. It's more accurate and more descriptive, with a venn diagram of O.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:20 PM on February 15, 2017 [8 favorites]


If sanity is ever restored to the United States, I really hope we can just tear ICE apart, limb from limb, burn the pieces, and bury all the ashes in separate boxes hundreds of feet underground, scattered in locations across the country marked only by dire warnings of the "this place is not a place of honor" nuclear waste dump variety. CBP serves a legitimate purpose even if it's grown infested with vile Nazi scum in recent years, but ICE exists only to cause pain and suffering as far as I can tell.
posted by tobascodagama at 6:20 PM on February 15, 2017 [24 favorites]


soren_lorensen - I used your design and ordered 500 of each as well but left city and zip as a fill in so I can give some to my local Democratic Party group in case others want to send postcards too.

Maybe you have others in your zip that would like some?

Thanks for sharing your design!
posted by hilaryjade at 6:20 PM on February 15, 2017 [7 favorites]


Trump will not fill out an NCAA tournament bracket

I thought he was just going to write Duke in the center.
posted by drezdn at 6:22 PM on February 15, 2017 [17 favorites]


on Maddow

Lost a lot of my respect for J Fox there, and confirmed my good judgment in never having any for Sarandon. She really is the kind of person who seems like a leftist version of Ann Coulter, either an unhinged narcissist or a sociopath trolling her own side to give them a bad name.
posted by spitbull at 6:23 PM on February 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


I thought he was just going to write Duke in the center.

Everything is horrible, and all the wrong people win everything while no one decent or good will ever be happy again, so I expect 4 straight titles for the Patriots, Duke, and the Yankees. Hell, the Pacers might even win one. Eternal triumph of the whitest, most hateable sports teams in the age of Trumpist White Nationalism.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:25 PM on February 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


I do, and also application of a little sharpie does make them all purpose, if slightly messy, easily!
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:26 PM on February 15, 2017 [2 favorites]



write Duke in
Yeah except it'll be worse, he will write Duke Lacrosse.
posted by spitbull at 6:27 PM on February 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


"It can’t be unlimited or else you will have a tragic circumstance; a child will circuit the math for everyone else that is trying to operate within actuarial parameters."

And this is why actuarial science is a thing that exists. Because it predicts not only the expected payouts but also those huge, catastrophic costs that would be well beyond the means of any individual or small group of individuals.

That's also why insurance pools are very large. Because the statistics that back actuarial science are actually pretty good over a sufficiently large population, and they'll tell you how high your premiums need to be to basically eliminate the risk that extremely expensive care uses up the funds.

I mean, this here is a solved problem on the scale any large insurance company works on (it wouldn't work too well on a small pool, where high variance in lifetime cost per client means that either low premiums lead to unacceptably high risk for the insurer, or premiums end up made far higher than the necessary "average" to bring down the risk).

The detention has alarmed county officials who fear that that the arrest will scare undocumented victims of domestic abuse into staying with their abusers for fear of being deported and separated from their children or other family members.

This is pretty much exactly what every sanctuary jurisdiction has been saying for a while. Persecuting people in your community just makes them less willing to come to you when there's a problem. And given that the problems of individuals are generally indicative of the problems of a community... well, if you shoot messengers, you just end up getting less mail.
posted by jackbishop at 6:30 PM on February 15, 2017 [65 favorites]


what? you think that there is some magical shutoff valve? that seems pretty naive Dad.

As predicted, Chaffetz, chair of Oversight, is asking the Inspector General to investigate IC leaks.

Maybe it won't stop the leaks, but I would assume that there will be some stronger tools to dissuade leaks from happening.

For the record, no, I am not dumb enough (I think that would be a better word choice than "naive") to think there is a "valve" that shuts off leaks.

But I do believe the White House and its allies like Chaffetz do have some very powerful tools to use against the leakers.
posted by My Dad at 6:33 PM on February 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


so did anyone else catch Jimmy Pesto Jr.'s interview on the NewsHour tonight? why did that guy agree to get in front of a camera? holy shit, isn't he under criminal investigation?? do any of the Trumpies listen to competent legal counsel?
posted by indubitable at 6:39 PM on February 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


I have a feeling that Chaffetz is going to get his fingers burnt by this in a few days.

If the IC is doing this comparatively openly, there's no way they'll back down until this matter is settled history.
posted by Slackermagee at 6:39 PM on February 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


the statistics that back actuarial science are actually pretty good over a sufficiently large population

Trouble is, Americans love the idea of special-snowflake à la carte insurance plans. "Why should I be forced to pay for mental health coverage I'll never use?" is so compelling to some people, even though actuaries would gladly tell them the cost of a truly individualised policy with risk assessment based upon all their medical history and lifestyle. They want to pay a cheap premium that would cover T2 diabetes or a quadruple bypass, but they don't want the insurer to know their diet and exercise habits.
posted by holgate at 6:40 PM on February 15, 2017 [24 favorites]


Trump will not fill out an NCAA tournament bracket
>See, Obama did it, so Trump is against it.

He also can't be sure of the outcome so he doesn't want to be exposed as a loser when his picks fail. This is a guy that many respectable people have called out for cheating at golf right in front of them. He doesn't realize and cannot conceive that to be able to make fun of ones self or be vulnerable are desirable qualities in a person. That it is actually a positive and people like you because of it! Hi Obama!

This is why in spite of npr's story about melania keeping Mrs. Obama's garden around, I am still worried. Donnie is vindictive and I can see a dozen scenarios that end up having the garden destroyed. Oh hey, monsanto needs to test a new herbicide or new EPA regulations prohibit organic produce from being cultivated on Gov't owned property. Or "I am pissed off at melania today because she didn't smile prettily enough".
posted by futz at 6:48 PM on February 15, 2017 [17 favorites]


There's a train of thought on twitter that this rally in florida for trump will serve as the cover for some sort of reichstag fire event involving protesters, paid agitators, and maga hats. They desperately need to change the narrative and if it has the side effect of criminalizing dissent, so much the better for them. At this point I am just so worried because this is so horrible and I really, really can't (and don't want to) imagine what will happen when these guys are cornered.
posted by nolabasashi at 6:48 PM on February 15, 2017 [6 favorites]


Oh man, please please please let Chaffetz's investigation come out pointing directly at... Conway and Priebus.
posted by Mchelly at 6:49 PM on February 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


Oh FFS, can we PLEASE just have single payer already??
posted by darkstar at 6:49 PM on February 15, 2017 [26 favorites]


Here's the thread about what could happen on Saturday.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:51 PM on February 15, 2017 [8 favorites]


Speaking as an actuary, screw the "actuarial parameters". Bad stuff happens, that's precisely the point of insurance and why risk is pooled so that it's more predictable in the aggregate.

That said, there are actuarial reasons why insurance may not be the best way to provide healthcare coverage. There are certain characteristics that make for an ideal insurable exposure, and health exposures satisfy few of them. For example, if your house is destroyed in a fire, the chances that it gets destroyed again are still low (assuming you're not an arsonist or something). But if you have cancer this year, chances are you'll still have cancer next year. Instead of admitting this problem, and trying to provide healthcare coverage through some other mechanism (* cough cough * single payer), we keep trying to shoehorn health coverage into the insurance system, leading to all kinds of perverse incentives.
posted by peacheater at 6:53 PM on February 15, 2017 [52 favorites]


why did that guy agree to get in front of a camera?

Based on this letter to the DoJ (via The Intercept), Carter Page isn't so much an international man of mystery as an international weirdo.
posted by holgate at 6:53 PM on February 15, 2017 [3 favorites]




Even after being President of the United States (!), he will fixate for the rest of his life on the fact that he isn't (and isn't perceived as) as beloved as Obama and Reagan, as blue-blooded as the Bushes, as charismatic as Clinton, as handsome as Romney, as tough as McCain, and on and on.

Yes, but he's going to be more reviled than even Nixon, and more inept than--well, just about everybody. So there's that!
posted by flug at 6:56 PM on February 15, 2017 [6 favorites]


I just watched the Susan Sarandon and Josh Fox interview on All In with Chris Hayes. I like them and agree with them. I don't dislike anyone that doesn't agree with them - there is truth to found in most places and from most perspectives. From my personal experience with life and with politics and with activism, being angry and furious at anyone, or dismissing anyone without listening, makes me pretty ineffective and often ignorant of important information. And I know - I have been angry a lot in my lifetime. And ineffective. And ignorant. I have found it takes more courage and fortitude for me to look at what is going on inside of me, what is behind and underneath my reactions to people, events, philosophies, what it is that has me so riled up, than it does for me to face any of the realities of my life (so far). And I have had a shit ton of shit realities in my lifetime.
posted by W Grant at 6:56 PM on February 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


Six federal immigration agents went to the El Paso County Courthouse last week and arrested an undocumented woman who had just received a protective order alleging that she was a victim of domestic violence.

Jesus wept.

I'm in the beginning stages of the process to become a volunteer advocate for abused women and girls. This is chilling and counterproductive in ways I can't even enumerate.
posted by chaoticgood at 6:57 PM on February 15, 2017 [26 favorites]



Notable: Dem senator does not rule out prospect of holding up debt limit extension to get a Flynn probe.


Huh. I thought I had heard all the bad ideas but aparrently there was one left.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:57 PM on February 15, 2017 [18 favorites]


White House Plans to Have Trump Ally Review Intelligence Agencies

President Trump plans to assign a New York billionaire to lead a broad review of American intelligence agencies, according to administration officials, an effort that members of the intelligence community fear could curtail their independence and reduce the flow of information that contradicts the president’s worldview.

What the fresh hell
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:57 PM on February 15, 2017 [19 favorites]


White House Plans to Have Trump Ally Review Intelligence Agencies

BRING IT ON. If they do this the backlash will be brutal. The leaks will turn into floods. This actually makes me happy.
posted by futz at 7:01 PM on February 15, 2017 [32 favorites]


If there's one thing people whose jobs involve risking their lives love, it's a billionaire private equity guy coming to poke around in their business. Am I right?
posted by zachlipton at 7:03 PM on February 15, 2017 [69 favorites]


The billionaire mentioned is Stephen Feinberg, founder of Cerberus Capital Management. Cerberus owns The Freedom Group which is a particularly evil firearms manufacturing consortion with massive political power in the NRA etc. In short, he's a fuckface pile of garbage.

On the Freedom Group: In December 2012, citing the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting as "a watershed event that has raised the national debate on gun control to an unprecedented level," Cerberus announced it would sell all of its investments in Freedom Group. The private equity firm said it would retain a financial adviser to sell its interests in Freedom Group, and would return the proceeds to investors.[3][4] The decision was made after a California pension board, a Cerberus stakeholder, announced it would dispose of all stakes it held in firearms manufacturers that make weapons banned by state law. As of November 2015, Cerberus still owns the company.

On Cerberus: Cerberus is named after the mythological three-headed dog that guarded the gates of Hades. Feinberg has stated to his employees that while the Cerberus name seemed like a good idea at the time, he later regretted naming the company after the mythological dog.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:05 PM on February 15, 2017 [17 favorites]


America needs denazification. Seriously.
posted by uninformative at 7:05 PM on February 15, 2017 [29 favorites]


Man, Bush Jr. has got to be smirking up a storm to see his legacy as the most incompetent and least liked President in modern times simply vanish before his eyes.
posted by darkstar at 7:06 PM on February 15, 2017 [52 favorites]


What would be worse than the usual CIA/FBI repressive shenanigans? The CIA or the FBI run by a Trumpist clown who wants to rule by fiat based on a casual reading of Breietbart.
posted by Frowner at 7:06 PM on February 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


Has there been a political cartoon yet with donnie's tiny inadequate hands trying to hold back the leaks in the dam(s)?
posted by futz at 7:06 PM on February 15, 2017 [7 favorites]


Notable: Dem senator does not rule out prospect of holding up debt limit extension to get a Flynn probe.

Huh. I thought I had heard all the bad ideas but aparrently there was one left.


Yes, if he tries this the USA will almost certainly default on its debt. I just can't imagine the chaos that would bring to the world's markets.
posted by Joe in Australia at 7:10 PM on February 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


Feinberg was in ROTC, so he's got the background for it? And he sounds like a nice guy. "If anyone at Cerberus has his picture in the paper and a picture of his apartment, we will do more than fire that person. We will kill him. The jail sentence will be worth it."
posted by kirkaracha at 7:11 PM on February 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


We can't go on like this for 4 years. Something will happen to break the dam. Either a breakthrough leak, or some calamity that goes without a US response because the POTUS is in open warfare against the people who are supposed to be helping him make decisions. The result will be either Trump wins and breaks the IC to become his new gestapo, or he's impeached over the fallout. And the nature of the break will probably determine which thing happens. If its an attack on the US, Trump could win this battle. If it's some other blow up or fuck up caused by a Trump decision, that may be the straw that breaks the whole thing. But something terrible is going to happen. Everyone here is playing with live ammo and no clue who's shooting back, friend or foe.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:12 PM on February 15, 2017 [17 favorites]


On Cerberus: Cerberus is named after the mythological three-headed dog that guarded the gates of Hades. Feinberg has stated to his employees that while the Cerberus name seemed like a good idea at the time, he later regretted naming the company after the mythological dog.

maybe he's just a Mass Effect fan
posted by indubitable at 7:14 PM on February 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


Holding up the debt limit extension was idiotic when Ted Cruz briefly did it and it would be even more idiotic if the Democrats tried to do it now. When you find yourself going "That Ted Cruz chap had the right idea..." it's time to take a step back. Hell, even the Republicans eventually blinked on this one.
posted by Justinian at 7:16 PM on February 15, 2017 [32 favorites]


Yes, if he tries this the USA will almost certainly default on its debt. I just can't imagine the chaos that would bring to the world's markets.

I don't think that Democrats should allow this to happen but let's not kid ourselves: once the GOP made "threaten default if we don't get our way" a tool of the trade, the default became inevitable in the long run. With the unpredictability and instability of the current leadership, that inevitability was accelerated. No way we go 4 years without it.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:17 PM on February 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


no way the bankers would allow their politicians to default. not gonna happen.
posted by indubitable at 7:19 PM on February 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


maybe he's just a Mass Effect fan

I feel like being named after that Cerberus might actually be worse. (For non-gamers: Cerberus occurs throughout the trilogy as a "human supremacist" group engaged in terrorism and a lot of fucked-up unethical experimentation. The main character through convoluted circumstances ends up working for them in the second game, but they return as a very important secondary antagonist in the third one.)
posted by tobascodagama at 7:21 PM on February 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


no way the bankers would allow their politicians to default. not gonna happen.

No way the great powers of Europe will let things fall apart over one assassination in Sarajevo.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:21 PM on February 15, 2017 [28 favorites]


Holding up the debt limit extension was idiotic when Ted Cruz briefly did it

Preznit Turnip and his two houses of congress might disagree....

Obama got stymied and Senator Cruz who is still senating as a senator in the senate where he is a senator.

(dunno how this got cut off) Dems need to learn to embrace the fact that tactics that are stupid and still work are not stupid.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 7:22 PM on February 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


Yeah, let's have a global economic catastrophe that can actually, legitimately be blamed on a Democrat. They will have purges and go door to door. Raise your hand if you think they would never do such a thing, 'it can't happen here' or some variation. This is the worst idea I've heard in a long time, INCLUDING electing Trump.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 7:23 PM on February 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


Obama got stymied and Senator Cruz who is still senating as a senator in the senate where he is a senator.

Stymied on what? The debt ceiling got raised and, AFAIK, there were no concessions made to get it done.
posted by Justinian at 7:24 PM on February 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


[or instead of a dam a giant leaky diaper labeled appropriately. tiny phalanges still included]
posted by futz at 7:24 PM on February 15, 2017


I think his fellow Democrats are not stupid enough to go along with this flagrantly dumb idea, so maybe we can consign it to the same noise pile as the EPA repeal until someone else actually signs on.
posted by tobascodagama at 7:25 PM on February 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


I feel like the Feinberg/Cerberus/MassEffect joke might be funnier if Mass Effect didn't post-date the company by nearly two decades.
posted by Justinian at 7:26 PM on February 15, 2017


Republicans can play debt limit shenanigans because their voters do not give a shit, Democrats don't have that option. IOKIYAR is awful but there's a reason IOKIYAD isn't a thing.
posted by jason_steakums at 7:27 PM on February 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


Metafilter: What the fresh hell
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:30 PM on February 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


The White House occupant would mint the platinum coin with his face on it.
posted by holgate at 7:31 PM on February 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


I would have thought the better move with respect to the debt ceiling is to point out the hypocrisy when the Republicans inevitably vote to raise the limit. What I'm not sure about is whether any Democrats should vote in favor of raising the limit (and thus allow some Republicans to vote against it).
posted by Jonathan Livengood at 7:32 PM on February 15, 2017


The rest of the party would never get on board which is good because this is basically like someone coming up to me and being like "If you don't do what I want, I'm going to give you a chocolate bar." Oh no, please don't throw me in that briar patch.

You think Bannon doesn't have to go for a quick clean up every time he thinks of the US defaulting and the entire global economy disintegrating? He would loooove this.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:32 PM on February 15, 2017 [7 favorites]


I feel like the internet and silicon valley have brought about a shift in villainy and society is trying to catch up. Like, we're used to the bad guys being corrupt in ordinary ways - they want their mercenary company to get a lot of contracts to fight US wars, or they want to build their racist real estate empire or whatever. Pretty bad, yeah, but basically comprehensible - they want to be rich and have nice things.

And yet the people we're dealing with now are like something out of Marvel Comics - Peter Thiel, Bannon, Milo Yiannopoulos, Betsy DeVos, this Cerberus character. Thiel wants to be, literally, an immortal tyrant. That is his actual ambition. Bannon appears genuinely to want to destroy every American institution until civil society collapses so that he can head a military regime. Yiannopoulos is a sort of Joker figure who mostly seems to get a kick out of causing violence. De Vos wants to get rid of public education so that children of average families are easier to exploit, and she sees this as God's work.

I mean, this is a new moral landscape. These are people who quite frankly say "evil, be thou my good" - they can't be bought off with lots of money, they actually want to destroy social equality and social stability for the sake of destroying them. They don't just want to be rich, they want others to suffer and they want entrenched, systemic inequality because they like inequality. Past baddies wanted inequality because they wanted the money, so you could make a certain kind of false peace with them - as long as they got rich, they'd leave room for social progress because they didn't really care.

I would argue that this has to do with increasing inequality - so people grow up without any kind of normalizing, socializing effect because they are so wealthy and indulged. And I would argue that it has to do with the kinds of ambition and philosophy that become possible in light of the new social controls, spying, disinformation, mass scale wage theft, etc that have become possible through the technological changes of the past ten years. You take a lot of fundamentally sociopathic rich people, show them that they can use the internet to spy, lie and steal with no repercussions and they start to dream about being immortal tyrants.

And this shift in morality - I'm not sure what it means for the left, but I think it means that there's going to have to be one big shift on our side if we're going to achieve anything.
posted by Frowner at 7:32 PM on February 15, 2017 [123 favorites]


"Hey, Democrats - thanks for standing up for us in theory but we kiiinda need to get paid considering we don't know how long our agencies will last, so maybe don't fuck around with a shutdown?" - Every vulnerable federal employee
posted by jason_steakums at 7:33 PM on February 15, 2017 [12 favorites]


If you've ever wondered what living through the implosion of a presidential administration looks like--we're living it. Right now.

It really does remind me a lot of the 1970s, the Nixon administration. Except it took Nixon six long years to get here. Trump it took about six minutes.

See--he really is the best a something . . .
posted by flug at 7:33 PM on February 15, 2017 [13 favorites]


The White House occupant would mint the platinum coin with his face on it.

A gold-plated platinum coin
posted by Joey Michaels at 7:34 PM on February 15, 2017 [16 favorites]


See--he really is the best a something . . .

Now we just have to get him out by this Sunday...
posted by dilaudid at 7:36 PM on February 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


If you've ever wondered what living through the implosion of a presidential administration looks like--we're living it. Right now.


please everyone who was of age during watergate, keep repeating stuff like this. i am literally waking up in a cold sweat from nightmares where trump and bannon get away with this
posted by murphy slaw at 7:38 PM on February 15, 2017 [28 favorites]


International visitors are already turning their back on Trump-era America

The Global Business Travel Association (GBTA), which represents corporate travel managers, found that business travel transactions in America declined by 3.4% over the course of one week following the president’s order. It reckons that a net $185m in business travel bookings was lost. If a 3.4% decline sounds small, consider the group’s assertion that a 1% drop in business travel over the course of a year correlates with a loss of 71,000 American jobs and close to $5bn in gross domestic product (although the extent to which waning business travel helps to cause economic woes, rather than just reflecting them, can be difficult to unpick).
posted by bluecore at 7:40 PM on February 15, 2017 [28 favorites]


please everyone who was of age during watergate, keep repeating stuff like this. i am literally waking up in a cold sweat from nightmares where trump and bannon get away with this

Not to be a debbie downer but I think they'll probably get away with it. The Republican Congress will never remove Trump before their agenda goes through.
posted by Justinian at 7:42 PM on February 15, 2017 [6 favorites]


the people we're dealing with now are like something out of Marvel Comics

The Family Business is old-school and quaint in its grift and graft, but something like Thiel's Palantir is more like the Tyrell Corporation probably because Thiel was taking notes.
posted by holgate at 7:42 PM on February 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


Does the billionaire dude not think the IC knows where his bodies are buried? I would assume that they do.
posted by emjaybee at 7:46 PM on February 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


To this I'd add, though, the caveat that the propaganda outlet has to be in some way useful to readers beyond its function as a propaganda outlet. ...
Although I never liked Gawker itself, I think maybe the Gawker empire is a good model here. Gizmodo, Jezebel, Deadspin, Kotaku, Jalopnik and so forth all have clear political slants, but provide content that's worth reading for people who aren't already interested in those political slants.


You have to come up with something that won't be torn apart and dubbed the worst thing world by people who's beliefs don't align 100%. And can never have any mistakes or flaws.
posted by bongo_x at 7:48 PM on February 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


The Global Business Travel Association (GBTA), which represents corporate travel managers, found that business travel transactions in America declined by 3.4% over the course of one week following the president’s order.

It's not just business travellers. School trips to the US are also being cancelled both to avoid big protests (probably the smaller issue since these can be avoided), and because schools don't want to be in the position of figuring out what to do when individual students are turned away at the border because of their places of birth, ethnic origins, or places they've visited. When I saw this I wondered how US tourism would be affected (students aren't the only people around here who've lost interest in US trips), but then figured international tourism isn't really one of the huge economic drivers in the US. That article on business travellers suggests maybe it's more important than I realized.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 7:52 PM on February 15, 2017 [24 favorites]


International travel is a pretty huge source of income out here in Hawaii...
posted by Joey Michaels at 7:54 PM on February 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


Not to be a debbie downer but I think they'll probably get away with it.

do you need a hug? because i have so many hugs
posted by murphy slaw at 7:54 PM on February 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


>>please everyone who was of age during watergate, keep repeating stuff like this. i am literally waking up in a cold sweat from nightmares where trump and bannon get away with this

>Not to be a debbie downer but I think they'll probably get away with it.


They may get away with it and the pressure that everyone is applying everywhere in the system--from protests to showing up at town hall meetings to calling your elected representatives to leaks to media coverage--needs to continue without a letup.

But the things that have been revealed so for, the chinks in the wall like Flynn's resignation, have left so many little loose threads lying around that just a little tug here, a little tug there to reveal more and more and more.

And . . . the media is starting to smell blood in the water while we are seeing the first cracks appear in the previously totally smooth, unbroken wall of Republican solidarity.

Those are some of the things that remind me of the early 1970s . . .
posted by flug at 7:54 PM on February 15, 2017 [14 favorites]


To continue on the "evil be thou my good" front: I think this shift in...what I guess you could call the nature of average evil is right in line with the resurgence of anti-semitism, open white supremacy, Thiel's contention that women shouldn't vote, etc. (Not to mention calling your business "Palantir", of course.) People don't espouse those beliefs out of mere resentment or ignorance, they espouse them because the beliefs are evil - the beliefs are attractive because causing pain and foreclosing people's life chances is what they like doing.

As far as I can tell, a motivating aspect of internet anti-semitism is precisely that it's kicking people who are down - you take people whose communities, within living memory, were substantially destroyed by genocide, and you talk hatefully to them and threaten them because it's extra cruel and immoral. The violation of social norms about not hurting people who have already suffered is itself what renders the action sweet. It's not that people don't understand about the Holocaust, pogroms, etc - they do understand, and that's why they're anti-semitic.
posted by Frowner at 7:54 PM on February 15, 2017 [43 favorites]


Well, I can say plane fares to the US right now are cheaper than I have seen in the last 3 years. I will pay the same to fly from Copenhagen to NYC in early March as Mr. Nat will from Phoenix.

Airline fares are a total mystery to me, so I have no idea what is driving the cheapness.
posted by nat at 7:56 PM on February 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


I feel like the internet and silicon valley have brought about a shift in villainy and society is trying to catch up.

Compared to when and where? (I'm asking seriously.)
posted by airmail at 7:58 PM on February 15, 2017


International travel is a pretty huge source of income out here in Hawaii...

I wonder what's happening with the Orlando airport where the White House occupant is having his rally. A theme-park trip may feel less compelling this year.
posted by holgate at 7:58 PM on February 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


wow, i finally read that carter page letter and…

on a scale from "international communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our bodily fluids" to "do you know what the QUEERS are doing to our SOILS" it's about a … nine?
posted by murphy slaw at 7:59 PM on February 15, 2017 [29 favorites]


Not to be a debbie downer but I think they'll probably get away with it. The Republican Congress will never remove Trump before their agenda goes through.

Their agenda goes through Trump or no Trump, unfortunately. It's all about public support of Trump, once that goes, he goes.
posted by jason_steakums at 8:05 PM on February 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


Does the billionaire dude not think the IC knows where his bodies are buried? I would assume that they do.

Also, the idea of having some business rando play spy-catcher with any sort of success is hilarious. Even the desk jockeys, I assume, will have training in how to resist harsh interrogation. And Trump expects this silver-spoon asshole to do what, exactly? Call them into his office and hope they're intimidated enough by his big desk and expensive-but-poorly-fitted-suit to break and confess to leaking?
posted by tobascodagama at 8:05 PM on February 15, 2017 [9 favorites]


wow, i finally read that carter page letter and…

You're better than me; I found it literally unreadable.
posted by Joe in Australia at 8:05 PM on February 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


Does the billionaire dude not think the IC knows where his bodies are buried? I would assume that they do.

The leaders of the intelligence community that are doing these leaks are people that have had to console the spouses of dead agents, people that have had to sift through the rubble of bombed embassies.

They're not going to give up their stashed memory sticks and internet dead-drop servers because one of Trump or Putin's pets comes in and barks: "Stop leaking about the Russia-controlled assets in the White House or face legal sanctions!"

And Trump is going to find it even harder to purge the British/French/etc intelligence agencies that also have this stuff and told the US about it.
posted by sebastienbailard at 8:06 PM on February 15, 2017 [22 favorites]


Compared to when and where? (I'm asking seriously.)

Compared to the 20th Century's "banality of evil", perhaps.
posted by tobascodagama at 8:07 PM on February 15, 2017


Trump is going to find it even harder to purge the British/French/etc intelligence agencies that also have this stuff and told the US about it.

I'm guessing Germany, actually. It's not one of the Five Eyes, so it's more compartmentalised; and it probably has a better relationship with the other European intelligence services.
posted by Joe in Australia at 8:13 PM on February 15, 2017 [9 favorites]


And of course, Trump and Bannon being Trump and Bannon, this guy they want to bring in to chase IC leaks is probably not clean himself and then that will leak...

I do have to say, I wasn't expecting Pompeo to push back on any of Trump's meddling, and he doesn't sound thrilled about this guy Trump wants to bring in. If he stands behind the IC conclusions when it's his time to testify, it will go a lot further than Trump's word with his establishment congressional colleagues.
posted by jason_steakums at 8:14 PM on February 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


Compared to when and where? (I'm asking seriously.)

I think that different periods tend to have different rationales for oppression - so you get anti-communism and anti-"sin" during the Reagan era, and even the "greed is good" people have to dress that up with a "greed is good...for society" argument. During Clinton/Bush you have this "humanitarian" narrative about foreign intervention, you have a lot of garbage about "personal responsibility", etc. We've still got those, but we have something else that is almost exclusively, IMO, an internet phenomenon - coherent communities that have actual material wealth and power and which are organized around active celebration of inequality, racism, hatred of women, hatred of Jews, the pleasure of causing pain to one's enemies, etc. Communities whose affective life is organized around saying, essentially, "some people think that because being racist leads to bad outcomes for POC and makes society worse, then you shouldn't be racist - well, fuck that, I'm awesome because [I do this racist thing], POC suffering is good". When I was growing up, the conventional racist line was a more-in-sorrow-than-in-anger thing, like "it's too bad that those people are so immoral that they can't make decent lives for themselves, that's very sad but it seems inevitable".

A good example is the internet community from which the shooters at the MPLS Black Lives Matter protest emerged.

IYAM, the post-war liberal consensus really militated against this kind of right wing social formation. People were free to be racist, sexist, violent, etc, but the narrative about racism, sexism, violence and so on was still the "this is very deplorable and barbaric" one.

My point is that there's a shift in how oppression is rationalized from how it was rationalized between, say, 1950 and 2010, and that this shift is about actively being able to say " inequality is good, we should have more of it, when people suffer because of inequality that isn't sad, it's the system working".
posted by Frowner at 8:14 PM on February 15, 2017 [22 favorites]


A fourth grade class sent a Valentine's note to the Washington Post newsroom. Read the whole thing, but an excerpt:
And we want to say that we are sorry that people can be mean to you sometimes for just doing your job and we are sorry that your feelings are hurt from time to time. We’ve all been bullied too and we know you you feel. This Valentine we made is to thank you for being strong and telling the truth.
My apartment is very dusty all of a sudden.
posted by zachlipton at 8:18 PM on February 15, 2017 [69 favorites]


The Dark Enlightenment/Bannon/Moldbug stuff actually gaining traction is another good example.
posted by Frowner at 8:18 PM on February 15, 2017 [7 favorites]


I found it literally unreadable.

The lead-footed prose is what struck me: it reads as either "spent too long in academia" or "English not first language", and they're sort of similar.
posted by holgate at 8:18 PM on February 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


sen. collins is voting "no" on pruitt to head the EPA
posted by murphy slaw at 8:22 PM on February 15, 2017 [8 favorites]


But yes on cloture, so...
posted by notyou at 8:26 PM on February 15, 2017 [11 favorites]


The Dark Enlightenment/Bannon/Moldbug stuff actually gaining traction is another good example.

watching the transition of the 4chan/troll community from ironic racism to racism to white nationalism to enthusiastic calls for genocide has been one of the most disheartening things for me.

the ability of human beings to warp their own minds is profoundly depressing
posted by murphy slaw at 8:27 PM on February 15, 2017 [30 favorites]


ERP. Forgot that the filibuster was nuked for appointments.
posted by notyou at 8:28 PM on February 15, 2017


sen. collins is voting "no" on pruitt to head the EPA

But Manchin is voting yes. So.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:28 PM on February 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


As predicted, Chaffetz, chair of Oversight, is asking the Inspector General to investigate IC leaks.

Would this not result in de facto confirmation of the contents of the investigated leaks?
posted by srboisvert at 8:37 PM on February 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


I mean, this is a new moral landscape. These are people who quite frankly say "evil, be thou my good" ... I would argue that this has to do with increasing inequality

Thanks for articulating this. It's completely baffling. I understand competing interests; I understand "higher taxes mean lower profits" versus "education and healthcare are vital public interests". I understand how you can have different ideas about the public good. But I don't understand how we've arrived at a place where people seek to inflict pain for the sole purpose of inflicting pain. It's as if some segment of the population has been replaced by pod people (pregnant women are "hosts"?? wtf?!?).

Inequality and capitalism, yes. But -- in relation to the "moral landscape" -- perhaps also a murkier sense of rough beasts slouching and poison trees.
posted by dmh at 8:42 PM on February 15, 2017 [6 favorites]


L.A. City Attorney Files FOIA Request Over LAX Detainees
Los Angeles City Attorney Mike Feuer filed a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request on Tuesday to gather information about those who were detained at LAX following President Trump's travel ban, City News Service reports. According to Feuer, the FOIA comes after numerous unsuccessful attempts to get answers from federal officials.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:42 PM on February 15, 2017 [10 favorites]


Huh, there's a silver lining to having Pence as vice-president.
posted by jackbishop at 8:45 PM on February 15, 2017 [6 favorites]


I don't understand how we've arrived at a place where people seek to inflict pain for the sole purpose of inflicting pain.

In Auschwitz there is no "why".
posted by Joe in Australia at 8:45 PM on February 15, 2017 [13 favorites]


>
I found it literally unreadable.

The lead-footed prose is what struck me: it reads as either "spent too long in academia" or "English not first language", and they're sort of similar.
I'd posit that the vast majority of people are terrible at communicating in language where words actually means stuff. The vast majority of business writing that I've encountered is terrible; I feel that the majority of the perceived-as successful writers stick to stupid simple outdated language - for fear of screwing up. Going "lawyer-ese" are those authors' ideas of being clever and safe.

This Trump administration in the WH has consistently managed to fuck up even this aspect of basic competency.
posted by porpoise at 8:49 PM on February 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


I don't understand how we've arrived at a place where people seek to inflict pain for the sole purpose of inflicting pain.

In Auschwitz there is no "why".


Yeah, I'd say that inflicting pain for the sake of pain is a pretty standard setting for humanity. The alternative is the unusual circumstance.
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:50 PM on February 15, 2017 [7 favorites]


I don't understand how we've arrived at a place where people seek to inflict pain for the sole purpose of inflicting pain.

not being a goddamn monster requires constant vigilance and work.
posted by murphy slaw at 8:55 PM on February 15, 2017 [8 favorites]


I understand how you can have different ideas about the public good. But I don't understand how we've arrived at a place where people seek to inflict pain for the sole purpose of inflicting pain.

I mean, I think people who enjoy hurting others and make this the lodestone of their political work are not new, and neither is bonding over hatred of marginalized people - it's more that the coherence, national reach and self-recognition of these groups make them a different thing. It's the Dark Enlightenment /chan/racist-reddit groupings that come to recognize themselves as people who hate and people who like causing pain; it's someone like Thiel who doesn't even see the need to dissemble his belief that women should not vote. And he's not some fringe lunatic or elderly crank who never got used to the seventies - he's an important player in a really up and coming part of the economy.

The more I think about it, the more I think that the new things are the active rejection of "Enlightenment" values ( the Enlightenment itself being a more vexed and complicated thing) and the self-recognition of "we are people who reject the whole idea that making a society with less suffering is important; we are people who reject the idea of women's equality; we are people who reject the idea of racial equality; we are people who prefer inequality, who prefer a society where some have very great wealth and power and others have nothing at all". Fundie Christians sort of espoused those values when I was growing up, but the social/sexual laxness of the new formations didn't fly with them, and they tied it all in to old time religion. That's not where Bannon and Pewdiepie and various online hate-mongers are at all today - they're all about hatred as fun alongside sexual coercion as fun, drinking as fun, etc.
posted by Frowner at 8:55 PM on February 15, 2017 [42 favorites]


I'd say that inflicting pain for the sake of pain is a pretty standard setting for humanity.

Whoah there buddy. Lets step back a bit. Is that something that you *really* believe, or just letting out an ultra cynical sigh?

If it's the former, I'm open to talking through MeMail.

But yes, every successive day has felt like 'damn, that was a marginally even shittier day than the last' for a pretty long time now.

Darkest before the dawn? (given some of today's stories - I'd rather that facts resulted in actual stuff being done, but it seems like fckn stories are what elicit further-spanning reactions)
posted by porpoise at 8:56 PM on February 15, 2017 [6 favorites]


"We believe that the truth of this age can be found only by living through the drama of it to the very end. If the epoch has suffered from nihilism, we cannot remain ignorant of nihilism and still achieve the moral code we need.”
Albert Camus
posted by perhapses at 8:57 PM on February 15, 2017 [7 favorites]


I'd posit that the vast majority of people are terrible at communicating in language where words actually means stuff.

Perhaps my standards are set high, but I assume a bit more from a humanities PhD than "internet commenter fed to-and-fro through Google Translate."
posted by holgate at 8:59 PM on February 15, 2017


in my experience, an advanced degree either renders one's prose lucid and incisive or an impenetrable palimpsest of jargon and influences
posted by murphy slaw at 9:03 PM on February 15, 2017 [15 favorites]


plus, uh, the dude seems unwell.
posted by murphy slaw at 9:04 PM on February 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


>As predicted, Chaffetz, chair of Oversight, is asking the Inspector General to investigate IC leaks.

Would this not result in de facto confirmation of the contents of the investigated leaks?


I don't know. And, how would I know if Chaffetz's move is going to be enough to shut down the leaks. Another takeaway is that things are going as David Frum predicted in his long Atlantic article last month: the GOP wishes to remain willfully ignorant of the illegality of this regime. Rand Paul's comments yesterday (was it yesterday? it seems like eons ago now) is another great example of this.

The GOP doesn't want to know and they are going to do everything they can to remain ignorant.
posted by My Dad at 9:04 PM on February 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


What Mike Pence was up to while Trump (if we believe the White House account) knew and didn't tell him that he had mislead everybody about Flynn (from WSJ:
Mike Pence Finds Himself in Unusual Role in Mike Flynn’s Firing
):
Last week, before Mr. Pence left for a trip to West Point, Mr. Trump urged him to go see the Douglas MacArthur statue.

Arriving on campus later that day, he dutifully trudged along an icy path to pay respects to one of the military leaders Mr. Trump most admires. In sub-freezing temperature and howling winds, he gazed at the monument and pantomimed polishing the old general’s shoes.
National Treasure Alexandra Petri explains: "goldurnit I was writing a series of joke things that I guessed mike pence was doing all this time and none of them were as sad as this"

This administration is so stupid, comedy writers can't top real life.
posted by zachlipton at 9:05 PM on February 15, 2017 [39 favorites]


Each one of those sentences in that letter started way over here and somehow wound up way over there. It's a feat when a writer can pull it off with one or two sentences. But every one? Only the rarest talents.
posted by notyou at 9:08 PM on February 15, 2017 [4 favorites]




>I don't understand how we've arrived at a place where people seek to inflict pain for the sole purpose of inflicting pain.

>not being a goddamn monster requires constant vigilance and work.


I honestly believe that the reverse is true. Doing the right thing is easy if you are a normal sane human. Doing monstrous acts requires a ton of effort and machinations. I'll leave it there for now because this can lead to endless debate.
posted by futz at 9:19 PM on February 15, 2017 [7 favorites]


For about 30 comments there I thought I was still in the Pewdiepie thread, and it all made perfect sense in that context too. What a sad timeline we've got going here.
posted by isthmus at 9:20 PM on February 15, 2017 [7 favorites]


I mean, I think people who enjoy hurting others and make this the lodestone of their political work are not new, and neither is bonding over hatred of marginalized people - it's more that the coherence, national reach and self-recognition of these groups make them a different thing.

Not so much, the Know-Nothings were a national political party back in the 1840's, and the resurgent Klan of the 1910's-1920's was for a time very influential in Democratic politics in many states on a platform of nativism, anti-Catholicism and anti-Semitism (the "modern" Klan, founded at Stone Mountain, Georgia in 1915, was an outgrowth of the anti-Semitic "Knights of Mary Phagan"...the people who lynched Leo Frank) as much as anti-black racism. This is something new in the post-WWII era on a national level, but it's also something that's always been there.
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 9:21 PM on February 15, 2017 [10 favorites]



Okeeee. I thought the this day was done with anything else weird. I thought I'll just give my twitter feed a quick look before heading to bed. So I came across The Hill article Priebus, Bannon trash reports of division which talks about Bannon being pissed at Breibart for trashing Priebus. Okay fine, it's either true and that Bannon didn't know or it's just all part of his game. Too worn out to give it a whole lot of thought at this point.

Regardless of why he is out there being angry at Breibart which is just weird. So I decided to take a boo at a couple of alt-right Trumpie places to see if they were talking about this. I didn't find much but did come across Trump supporter convo where they were arguing over 'Briebart being fake news now!' My head just sorta short circuited and I slowly backed away and closed the tab.
posted by Jalliah at 9:22 PM on February 15, 2017 [9 favorites]


Jalliah it is actually already touched on in this post. I guess those two aren't falling asleep on the phone together lol.
posted by futz at 9:26 PM on February 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


I wonder what's happening with the Orlando airport where the White House occupant is having his rally. A theme-park trip may feel less compelling this year.

The rally isn't being held at the main Orlando airport (MCO) but at one about an hour away in Melbourne (MLB).
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:27 PM on February 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


>'Briebart being fake news now!'

Good. May they see enemies everywhere they look, even among their grossest allies. As far as Biblical-sounding curses go, it couldn't happen to a nicer buncha fellas.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 9:27 PM on February 15, 2017 [6 favorites]


Good. May they see enemies everywhere they look, even among their grossest allies.

If you ever peek your head in to look at /r/kotakuinaction to see what GamerGaters are up to, this is how they live. They are so over Milo. I didn't have the patience to determine exactly what their internal debate over whether Breitbart should be on blacklist tier 2 or tier 3 meant.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 9:33 PM on February 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


but at one about an hour away in Melbourne (MLB).

Oh, the place with the dubious domain registry? Well, poot.
posted by holgate at 9:34 PM on February 15, 2017


Marianne Levine at Politico goes into more detail on what it took to get the Oprah tape: My tale of Puzder’s 'Oprah' tape. It took two months of digging. And then they had to find a VCR.
posted by zachlipton at 9:38 PM on February 15, 2017 [6 favorites]


I mean, I think people who enjoy hurting others and make this the lodestone of their political work are not new, and neither is bonding over hatred of marginalized people ... they're all about hatred as fun alongside sexual coercion as fun, drinking as fun, etc.

Absolutely. But I am used to seeing that wrapped in some sort of moral fig-leaf, some sort of attempt at moral reasoning, whether rooted in Enlightenment values or religious belief or an elaborate fairy tale. The current president, his entourage, and the edgelords seem to be making a point out of not even making a token effort to do so. It's not just that their justifications are shoddy or absent; it's that they go out of their way to ridicule the very expectation that any justification or explanation is owed. It's not even "might makes right" -- it's just "might" (which, yes, I suppose then becomes a kind of nihilistic abandon, or "fun").
posted by dmh at 9:47 PM on February 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


Good. May they see enemies everywhere they look, even among their grossest allies.

In /r/the_donald a contingent is obsessed with hunting pedophiles, which they see everywhere.
posted by sebastienbailard at 9:48 PM on February 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


So we currently have a bunch of reps in MN that are avoiding holding town halls and generally doing everything they can to avoid their constituents. And then seeing tweets like this (about one of our reps) makes me feel like Wikipedia should just put a permaban on IP addresses located in the House of Representatives.
posted by triggerfinger at 9:49 PM on February 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


Why Puzder?

Mostly because he was caught hiring an undocumented worker, which undercut him a lot with the right wing.


Wait, the man owns two chains of fast food restaurants, right?

BWAHAHAHA only employs one undocumented worker HAHAHAHAHAHA *wipes tear*

So the other day when ICE was rumored to be in town? (It wasn't true, it was a "joke" from local talk radio, apparently.) The Taco Bell CLOSED because all the staff fled out the back, leaving one high school girl standing there by herself.
posted by threeturtles at 9:50 PM on February 15, 2017 [29 favorites]


The reason the_donald sees pedophiles everywhere is because they come from 8chan, which was first known for... well, use your imagination.
posted by Yowser at 9:50 PM on February 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


I mean, this is a new moral landscape. These are people who quite frankly say "evil, be thou my good" ... I would argue that this has to do with increasing inequality

When I hear a lot of those people talking, they strike me as people of such limited experience, historical knowledge, and imagination that they cannot comprehend what true oppression and suffering look like, so they genuinely imagine themselves to be the ones oppressed.

Like, a girl was mean to them at a bar once. Or they didn't get into the university of their choice, and that might have had something to do with affirmative action. The worlds they've moved in are so absurdly fair, at baseline, that that's oppression, to them. They simply cannot see beyond their own experience, which is one of such exaggerated safety that the tiniest little scratch becomes a bleeding wound. In these tiny little limited worlds, there are women that seem to have power, and there are people of color who seem to have power -and who seem to have power over them. That's their whole reality.

In this Upside Down, they're not punishing people who are helpless, not at all - they're "punching up" against the all-powerful Coastal Elites, the PC Thought Police, the Social Justice Warriors, the Feminazis. That makes what they're doing righteous and fair. I don't think these guys see themselves as villains at all - they genuinely believe they're embracing evil "ironically," because it's so clear, from their perspective, that they are the victims. They use hate speech not because they want to commit genocide, but because they think it's outlandish that anyone could commit genocide against groups so obviously all-powerful as, say, the Jews.

This is, of course, exactly what powers all genocides. The Jews, the Armenians, the Tutsis - before they were insects and infestations that deserved to be extinguished, they were powerful: they were the wealthy, oppressive, minorities; the people who greedily and unfairly consumed more than their fair share. And the people who killed them were just ordinary people rising up to do the right thing, and take back their communities. In that sense, this is nothing new.
posted by pretentious illiterate at 9:52 PM on February 15, 2017 [115 favorites]


If you ever peek your head in to look at /r/kotakuinaction to see what GamerGaters are up to, this is how they live. They are so over Milo. I didn't have the patience to determine exactly what their internal debate over whether Breitbart should be on blacklist tier 2 or tier 3 meant.

You know, these people are tiny in numbers - this isn't the information age grey goo consuming all rational thought in the human psyche like some sort of shitty C-list alt-right backed author on the sad puppy slate at the Hugos, the only reason we're talking about these sad fucks and their sad fuck lives and sad fuck debates is that the institutional Republican party adopted their framing of the world in exchange for tax cuts.

It's not the Bannon's and Milo's and the Pewdiewhoeverthefucks of world that are to blame. It's Republicans who should've known better and didn't care. It's elected Republicans with actual, real world power, who took the memes bubbling up from the 4chan Nazi cesspools and said, "we can use this against Obama and Hilary". It's the Fox News' of the world that gave these Nazis a national platform amplified by billions of corporate dollars, ultimately so they could prop up billionaire's portfolio returns. It's the David Frums' and Ari Flichers of the world who bent over backwards to give it all a cover of legitimacy and are doing so to this day, it's every soulless husk #NeverTrumper from Mitt Romney to Ted Cruz who were happy to stand on principal when it cost them nothing, but accepted the endorsements and eagerly embraced every last bit of authoritarianism the moment the tide turned.

It's the Republican party who aligned with neo-fascism on steroids and welcomed it into the mainstream with open arms. The problem is Republicans. Without their self-serving eager acceptance and amplification, all of this shit would've been contained and relegated to the fringe like it had been for 40 years.

It's Republicans.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:59 PM on February 15, 2017 [127 favorites]


Kotakuinaction is full of mouth breathers at this point. Not sure why they're being brought up except for historical reasons.
posted by Yowser at 10:04 PM on February 15, 2017



In this Upside Down, they're not punishing people who are helpless, not at all - they're "punching up" against the all-powerful Coastal Elites, the PC Thought Police, the Social Justice Warriors, the Feminazis. That makes what they're doing righteous and fair. I don't think these guys see themselves as villains at all - they genuinely believe they're embracing evil "ironically," because it's so clear, from their perspective, that they are the victims.


Yep. That's pretty much explains my experience with modern day white nationalists. They are the victims. Sure it's about white's being the best but the reason they have to fight and do what they do is because they are the ones that see the truth that white people are being oppressed, white people culture is being destroyed and white people are on their way to becoming extinct as a race. They're the heroes of the story and anything villainous that they might do is done in the name of the greater good, literally saving the white race.
posted by Jalliah at 10:06 PM on February 15, 2017 [19 favorites]


I umm take it back. It looks like the_donald circled back and took over kotakuinaction. I guess I should have predicted that.
posted by Yowser at 10:06 PM on February 15, 2017


Of 696 key positions requiring Senate confirmation…

Awaiting nomination: 661
Awaiting confirmation: 23
Confirmed: 12
posted by kirkaracha at 10:06 PM on February 15, 2017 [49 favorites]


Water cooler discussions about the current president's mental health are unanimous on the NPD with maybe a little antisocial personality disorder in there.

Yeah, I'm sorry. There's plenty of discussion to be had about ethics of public discussion of the president's mental health and if that is any different than armchair diagnosis of another public or private figure. I've been pretty clear. I'm a former mental health professional, I never had authority to give official diagnoses, but I was expected to get in the ballpark of someone's issues within 45 minutes of conversation.

But the idea that Trump doesn't fit the criteria of NPD is completely laughable. If Trump doesn't fit the criteria (which he does), then the criteria are a fucking joke. The idea that because he has money that he doesn't have a disorder is just fundamentally in contradiction of what the field has to say about personality disorders in general. (Then there's the fact that I think most professionals view the personality disorders less as discrete illnesses and more like slightly blurry categories within clusters. NPD and antisocial and borderline are all Cluster B.
posted by threeturtles at 10:10 PM on February 15, 2017 [34 favorites]


You know, these people are tiny in numbers ... It's the Republican party who aligned with neo-fascism on steroids and welcomed it into the mainstream with open arms

But where's the political benefit in pandering to the repugnant ideas of tiny number of people and how does it explain the rise of political parties organized around similar ideas in Europe?
posted by dmh at 10:12 PM on February 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


Yeah, saying "I wrote the book on NPD, so" is so fucking intentional fallacy it's hilarious. Sorry, once it's in a book, you don't get to say what it means, especially when lots and lots of mental health professionals are all "am I off duty? ok, he's fucking nuts."
posted by holgate at 10:14 PM on February 15, 2017 [11 favorites]


There's a huge difference between Joe America who just lost his factory job and who tunes into politics for 5 days every 4 years usually to vote Republican, and death cultist Steve Bannon who's been working for the last decade to end western civilization, or Trump himself, known racist demagogue for 30 years. Republicans legitimized them both, solely because they knew Joe America didn't know anything about them but might like a trendy "dey derk er jerbs" message. And they got lucky gaming our illegitimate electoral college system held over from slavery.

The rest of the world has similar dynamics, that rhyme if not perfectly align. Elite failure on behalf of the middle class through cooption by the billionaire interests left openings for anarchofacist movements with false promises they can never deliver, but the public is getting desperate enough to try anyway, now supercharged by Russian money and sabotage.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:24 PM on February 15, 2017 [8 favorites]


Bill Maher Invites Milo Yiannopoulos, and Another Guest Cancels

The addition of the incendiary right-wing writer Milo Yiannopoulos to Friday’s lineup for the HBO late-night series “Real Time With Bill Maher” quickly proved controversial on Wednesday evening when another guest, the journalist Jeremy Scahill, said he would not appear on the show because of Mr. Yiannopoulos’s booking.

Mr. Scahill, a co-founder and editor of the news site The Intercept, announced his decision on Twitter only hours after Mr. Yiannopoulos’s scheduled appearance was made public. Mr. Scahill said that allowing Mr. Yiannopoulos to appear on “Real Time” was “many bridges too far.”


(btw, the url for this article is insane. does anyone know why a site does this? memail is fine to avoid clogging up the thread)
posted by futz at 10:30 PM on February 15, 2017 [7 favorites]


The Intercept is every bit as awful as Breitbart. When your primary source is Julian as dangle, you might not be a credible news organization.

(Auto correct of last name kept as is)
posted by Yowser at 10:40 PM on February 15, 2017 [10 favorites]


Kotakuinaction is full of mouth breathers at this point

/cannot imagine being able to say a point in time was the highpoint of KiA. It's a squallid littlest den of nazis and harrasers, that's been it's entire point since day one.
posted by Artw at 10:44 PM on February 15, 2017 [8 favorites]


but at least we have ethics in game journalism now
posted by murphy slaw at 10:45 PM on February 15, 2017 [7 favorites]


Is Bill Maher going to ask m*l* if he's blown off writing his book and whether he's already spent the advance? That's the only thing worth asking of the contemptuous little shit.
posted by holgate at 10:50 PM on February 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


The actual URL is https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/15/arts/bill-maher-jeremy-scahill-milo-yiannopoulos.html.

The URL produced (and I'm going to line break it so it doesn't break MeFi),

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/15/arts/bill-maher-jeremy-scahill-milo-yiannopoulos.html?
module=WatchingPortal&region=c-column-middle-span-region&pgType=Homepage
&action=click&mediaId=none&state=standard&contentPlacement=2
&version=internal&contentCollection=www.nytimes.com&
contentId=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2017%2F02%2F15%2Farts%
2Fbill-maher-jeremy-scahill-milo-yiannopoulos.html,

is what happens when you let the marketing department add a tracking query every time the tech lead is too drunk to tell them to do it based on cookies and referrers.
posted by jaduncan at 10:50 PM on February 15, 2017 [29 favorites]


(btw, the url for this article is insane. does anyone know why a site does this? memail is fine to avoid clogging up the thread)
posted by futz at 2:30 PM on February 16 [+] [!]


Nah, it's important enough to note why the link is insane IN the thread.

We've all been around long enough to know what an actual URL looks like. http://www.site.tag/subsite/thing.html. Everything after that question mark in the URL is tracking, cookies, and ad revenue, and more importantly, you can just delete all that, including the question mark, and the link will work just the same, and we'll all live in a saner universe for it. NYT is particularly egregious about this, but more sites than should do it. The more of that you get rid of, the better.
posted by saysthis at 10:51 PM on February 15, 2017 [36 favorites]


And feel free to deny cookies by default, or open sites that demand them in incognito windows.
posted by saysthis at 10:53 PM on February 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


I call all of that stuff "feedbarf."

Sorta off topic and sorta not, I was catching up on Love and Radio and they had two interviews with Daryl Davis, a.k.a. The Black Guy Who Befriends the KKK, Apparently. It was interesting to listen to how it worked, though I will warn you that the second one ("How To Argue") does have him saying he thinks Trump is the best thing that happened to America because it's bringing the super racism out in the open instead of allowing us to hide it.
posted by jenfullmoon at 11:10 PM on February 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


Trump is the best thing that happened to America because it's bringing the super racism out in the open instead of allowing us to hide it.

Similarly, this line of argument gives us a fascinating new angle on Auschwitz.
posted by jaduncan at 11:16 PM on February 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


So, when I went shopping today, I was almost overwhelmed by the main headline on the National Enquirer, the Original Fake News Medium (and the simple fact that it has not been sued into non-existence multiple times over the decades just proves how factually and morally bankrupt America is). Remember that the Enquirer and its lying publisher has been a cheerleader for The Donald since before any of the current staff at Breitbart learned to read. And the Big Story: Obama’s Plot To Impeach Donald Trump (quoting from their website so you don't have to go there:) "a left-leaning whistleblower has told The National ENQUIRER that the attack on Flynn is just the start of a plot that's being masterminded by Barack Obama, as the puppet master pulls the strings on a coordinated conspiracy across multiple federal agencies. The top-ranked source claims the goal is to sabotage the Trump administration, and ultimately impeach the President!" Apparently Obama's TREASONOUS (a word on the front page) plan's endgame is to change the Constitution so he can get a third term in 2020 after kicking out wonderful Mr. Trump.

This is what sits in the background while most of America waits in line to pay for our groceries. And plenty of people have picked up these lies like a bad infection over the years. Forget the Breitbart boycott - I want to see a full blockade on every advertiser in that shit-stained buttrag. And I want to see some Good Billionaire do a Theil and sponsor libel suits on behalf of everyone who's been lied about in that evil bullsheet until Mr. Enquirer ends up the penniless homeless bum he deserves to be.
posted by oneswellfoop at 11:20 PM on February 15, 2017 [15 favorites]


Just turn that shit back-frontwards in the grocery line. Nobody working there is going to fuss about it.
posted by holgate at 11:31 PM on February 15, 2017 [14 favorites]


Which Depeche Mode lyrics were you thinking of during Spicer's press conference today?

You know how hard is for me to shake the disease that takes hold of my tongue in situations like these?
posted by Jon Mitchell at 11:31 PM on February 15, 2017 [6 favorites]


I put a less putrid tabloid paper in front of it in the rack in my aisle, but that was only one of eight check-out lines (four in use at the time) in a single store.
posted by oneswellfoop at 11:36 PM on February 15, 2017


I was just going to bring up National Enquirer as a very do-able piece of individual action.

Talk to your favorite grocery store's manager and ask them to no put National Enquirer on display by the registers, especially if you live in a moderate to lefty neighborhood (and I know you do).

It is legitimately offensive, and I guarantee you it's not selling. They have it there by force of habit. Say that you used to read it but it's not fun any more, just a bunch of one-sided political lectures. Be gracious and say it's fine if they want to sell, please just don't shove it in our face while we wait in line. And ask your friends to do the same.

This is simple, takes little time, and makes sense for the grocery store.
posted by msalt at 11:44 PM on February 15, 2017 [24 favorites]


In /r/the_donald a contingent is obsessed with hunting pedophiles, which they see everywhere.

I'm sure I don't have to remind everyone of this, but this type of thing is projection pretty much 100% of the time. Make of that what you will . . .
posted by flug at 11:57 PM on February 15, 2017 [7 favorites]


It's a squallid littlest den of nazis and harrasers, that's been it's entire point since day one.

the best part is how so many banned mefites are regulars there
posted by poffin boffin at 12:00 AM on February 16, 2017 [12 favorites]


Yeah, I'd say that inflicting pain for the sake of pain is a pretty standard setting for humanity. The alternative is the unusual circumstance.

I'd say it's a standard setting for maybe 20% of humanity. Over the course of history, those 20% have been in power over the rest of humanity quite a lot of the time, since having no morals, qualms, or limits is pretty useful when seeking power. As a whole I'd say the US has been pretty good at not letting those people have the reins of power.

As a whole. I'm sure from the perspective of a slave on a plantation in a Southern state in say 1840, the people in charge would sure look like members of that 20%.
posted by threeturtles at 12:05 AM on February 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


I'm sure I don't have to remind everyone of this, but this type of thing is projection pretty much 100% of the time. Make of that what you will . . .

I'll make this of it: Cheese Pizza is directly 4/8chan slang for child pornography and was intended to avoid word filters on the chans and off them. No need to look for subtext.
posted by jaduncan at 12:20 AM on February 16, 2017 [6 favorites]


Well, there's the 20% for whom inflicting pain is the standard setting, but in the US a solid majority has usually been in the "I don't care as long as I'm not one of those getting hurt" category.
posted by oneswellfoop at 12:22 AM on February 16, 2017 [8 favorites]


Elite failure on behalf of the middle class through cooption by the billionaire interests left openings for anarchofacist movements with false promises they can never deliver, but the public is getting desperate enough to try anyway, now supercharged by Russian money and sabotage.

I agree. I guess I'm talking about the subjective experience. The stench, the venality, the palpable hatred and fear. That feeling when you run into a rowdy group of drunks late at night, when the streets are empty, and they're looking for trouble.
posted by dmh at 12:23 AM on February 16, 2017


Cheese Pizza is directly 4/8chan slang for child pornography
Except at Trump Grill where it's "Taco Bowl Extra Spicy".
posted by oneswellfoop at 12:23 AM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


I'm sure I don't have to remind everyone of this, but this type of thing is projection pretty much 100% of the time. Make of that what you will . . .

I think it's rationalizing their aggression as being defensive:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rationalization_(psychology)
Collective rationalizations are regularly constructed for acts of aggression,[9] based on exaltation of the in-group and demonisation of the opposite side: as Fritz Perls put it, "Our own soldiers take care of the poor families; the enemy rapes them".[10]
posted by sebastienbailard at 1:34 AM on February 16, 2017 [5 favorites]




Well, just because Trump says it doesn't mean it's wrong.
posted by Joe in Australia at 2:06 AM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


Apparently even a broken clock can act presidential twice a day once in a 27 day period.
posted by sebastienbailard at 2:32 AM on February 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


Well, just because Trump says it doesn't mean it's wrong.

Ah, correlation versus causation.
posted by jaduncan at 2:36 AM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


Disabled, Shunned and Silenced in Trump’s America: As we know, the president has not merely shown a total lack of awareness of disability rights issues and of the crucial role that people with disabilities can play in an inclusive society — he has been dismissive and rude toward us. We are all familiar with his mocking of the physical appearance of the Times reporter Serge Kovaleski, as we are with his denial of the real meaning of the incident, and his refusal to apologize. On matters related to us, we’ve heard nothing since.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:18 AM on February 16, 2017 [14 favorites]


Man, I have been hoping and praying Obama has a plan to impeach Trump! And that the IC is in on it, even Comey And Graham and McCain too! And the Washington Post and Jeff Bezos and all those Silicon Valley guys! And the courts! And those liberal protesters, they're all in on it! And the whole Democratic party!

The thought that Patriotic Americans might be able to coordinate their efforts and get Trump impeached (which is perfectly legal and constitutional, and would require the cooperation of Republicans!) before he does permanent, unfixable harm to our country is basically the only thing that lets me sleep at night.
posted by OnceUponATime at 3:32 AM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


The thought that Patriotic Americans might be able to coordinate their efforts and get Trump impeached (which is perfectly legal and constitutional, and would require the cooperation of Republicans!) before he does permanent, unfixable harm to our country is basically the only thing that lets me sleep at night

Sure, but prepare for the Dolchstoßlegende , which will hang around like a bad shit for 25 years.
posted by thelonius at 3:42 AM on February 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


I did also want to say that while I agree that there are a certain percentage of sociopaths in the world (surely not as much as 20%, though..) and they certainly come out of the woodwork at times like this... I think it's mostly fear that's the driving force behind thIs Nazi renaissance rather than just sadism.

Fear can make people act like sociopaths, and fear can make people willing to empower sociopaths (strongmen) to protect them.

Fear of what? Well, mostly fear of Muslims, it would seem. It doesn't have to be a rational fear. But really fear of The Other in general, people different from themselves, and of of a changing world they no longer understand or know how to navigate. In their personal lives most of these people are not sociopaths. They love their kids and so on. But fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, etc. And then the sociopaths who are among them start to stand tall, because they just thrive in a climate of fear.

I really feel like, if we could cure everyone's Islamaphobia for a start, though, our country (our world!) could go back to normal. But it won't be easy...
posted by OnceUponATime at 3:44 AM on February 16, 2017 [5 favorites]




I've given up on the idea that people only have hate and anger because they are afraid. I think they are primary drives and people indulge them because they like the sense of power that gives them.
posted by thelonius at 3:49 AM on February 16, 2017 [21 favorites]


Well, just because Trump says it doesn't mean it's wrong.

Trump could say the sky is blue and I'd still find a god damned window to check.
posted by Talez at 3:58 AM on February 16, 2017 [8 favorites]


So Obama's Army meets in the Room of Requirement at what time?
posted by Glibpaxman at 3:59 AM on February 16, 2017 [20 favorites]


Just in case anyone still believes Bibi cares about Jewish Americans: Netanyahu defends Trump over omission of Jews from Holocaust remembrance statement
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on Wednesday defended the White House’s controversial omission of Jews from a statement issued by President Donald Trump for International Holocaust Remembrance Day, arguing that the American-Jewish community’s complaints over the matter were “misplaced.”

During a briefing for reporters after their first meeting at the White House, Netanyahu hailed Trump as a staunch ally of Israel and the best friend the Jewish people could wish for.

“There is no doubt that the president and his team understand very well the significance of the Holocaust as an attempt to annihilate the Jewish people, and that they fully appreciate the centrality of the Holocaust in Jewish life,” he told Israeli and international reporters at the Blair House, the administration’s prestigious residence for visiting dignitaries.

When it was put to him that virtually the entire American Jewish community expressed disappointment, concern and in some cases anger at the fact that the White House not only omitted to mention Jews as the victims of Nazi genocide in the statement but later doubled down on the omission, insisting that other people also suffered during the Holocaust, Netanyahu reacted dismissively.

He said he did not bring up the issue during his meeting with Trump in the Oval Office earlier Wednesday, but that his aides looked into the matter “a while ago” and were utterly convinced that no objections needed to be raised.

“This man is a great friend of the Jewish people and the State of Israel, there is no doubt about this,” Netanyahu said, adding that concerns and condemnations expressed by US-Jewish groups “were misplaced.”
I never thought I'd see the day when the Prime Minister of Israel would flirt with Holocaust denial, let alone just to kiss the President's ass, but apparently 2017 is a year of unpleasant surprises.
posted by zombieflanders at 4:00 AM on February 16, 2017 [86 favorites]


I never thought I'd see the day when the Prime Minister of Israel would flirt with Holocaust denial, let alone just to kiss the President's ass, but apparently 2017 is a year of unpleasant surprises.

Well, fascists gonna fash
posted by acb at 4:05 AM on February 16, 2017 [8 favorites]


I umm take it back. It looks like the_donald circled back and took over kotakuinaction. I guess I should have predicted that.

People kept filtering t_d from /r/all so they needed a proxy. Neo-nazis are having a shitfit over the new front page algorithm which kicks out filtered subs from /r/popular. The biggest filtered sub? /r/t_d.
posted by Talez at 4:12 AM on February 16, 2017 [6 favorites]


I've given up on the idea that people only have hate and anger because they are afraid. I think they are primary drives and people indulge them because they like the sense of power that gives them.

I've mostly stopped considering motives and intentions and pay attention to behavior: what does a person do or say? Too much abusive behavior, of all kinds, starts by making space between an action and intent or "true self" or whatever: to literally every person but ourselves, we are what we do. Our thoughts and feelings are only real to one person, but our actions are real to all, and can affect all.

Trump's words and deeds are so, so awful, as are those of many of his supporters. That's all I need to know as a citizen, to know what I'm acting against.
posted by LooseFilter at 4:16 AM on February 16, 2017 [33 favorites]


You know that execrable TV show with Kevin Bacon about the serial killer who starts a cult of serial killers? I see our current situation as that. All the sociopaths, all the abusers, all the narcissists and amoral fucksticks (and, perhaps most damaging, the amoralcurious) got on the internet, found each other, and coalesced around charismatic leaders. No longer is your awful, abusive cousin limited to sending shitty, emotionally manipulative letters to your grandma in an attempt to get you kicked out of the will, now he can go online and learn how to be the most shitty to the greatest number of people and also some handy cover stories he can use when called out.
posted by soren_lorensen at 4:29 AM on February 16, 2017 [30 favorites]


People kept filtering t_d from /r/all so they needed a proxy. Neo-nazis are having a shitfit over the new front page algorithm which kicks out filtered subs from /r/popular. The biggest filtered sub? /r/t_d.

Are they really neo-nazis or are they more like socially & politically retarded momma's basement types?

There was a recent podcast episode (I forget which; maybe This American Life?) where the journos attended The Deploraball, where the meme-generators from the_donald celebrated the victory, and not a single one of them spoke about the policies, or about being a Republican, or from a longstanding Republican family, or economics, or anything of substance at all...

...they just crapped on endlessly about what a great troll Trump is.

And how saying appalling things & creating incredibly insensitive and offensive memes is making a very, very, very crucial and important point about free speech (something something handwave).

Unless the podcast editors did some extreme editing to make these people sound like juvenile cretins, they're not neo-nazis but bargain basement useless idiots who think it's all just a big game to end up putting an incompetent nutbag into power, regardless of his policies, experience, personal skills, intelligence or really any factor at all that could make a person worthy of the job of POTUS.
posted by UbuRoivas at 4:40 AM on February 16, 2017 [10 favorites]


and, perhaps most damaging, the amoralcurious

That probably comes naturally from several decades of neoliberalism. Keep telling people that everything's a commodity on the market, that we live in a just world where greed makes the world go round, the most mendacious sociopaths competing to screw the most people end up causing wealth to trickle down to the deserving, and the losers are those who don't deserve to win, and sociopathic amorality stops being a pathology and becomes a way of being sharp and on the ball.
posted by acb at 4:41 AM on February 16, 2017 [12 favorites]


Unless the podcast editors did some extreme editing to make these people sound like juvenile cretins, they're not neo-nazis but bargain basement useless idiots who think it's all just a big game to end up putting an incompetent nutbag into power, regardless of his policies, experience, personal skills, intelligence or really any factor at all that could make a person worthy of the job of POTUS.

They can be, and most certainly are, both.
posted by Talez at 4:44 AM on February 16, 2017 [12 favorites]


they're not neo-nazis but bargain basement useless idiots who think it's all just a big game to end up putting an incompetent nutbag into power, regardless of his policies, experience, personal skills, intelligence or really any factor at all that could make a person worthy of the job of POTUS.

When the last tree is cut down, the last river poisoned, the last home foreclosed and the last school is converted to a debtors' prison, only then will they realise that you can't survive on liberal tears.
posted by acb at 4:46 AM on February 16, 2017 [42 favorites]


weev started out just like those kids and now he has swastika prison tattoos and calls for the extermination of mud people so the line between troll and neo-nazi is not nearly as bright as we might have hoped.
posted by murphy slaw at 4:56 AM on February 16, 2017 [56 favorites]


The Women's March has called for a general "day without women" strike for 3/8.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:01 AM on February 16, 2017 [20 favorites]


Unless the podcast editors did some extreme editing to make these people sound like juvenile cretins, they're not neo-nazis but bargain basement useless idiots who think it's all just a big game to end up putting an incompetent nutbag into power, regardless of his policies, experience, personal skills, intelligence or really any factor at all that could make a person worthy of the job of POTUS.

From what I can tell there are different factions that have ended up forming a coalition of sorts around Trump. While the places like the t_donald are bad they aren't the worst and within the world that is the Trump-right are considered lightweights and not even that racist or racist enough. They're useful idiots though and useful feeder places. You can get people from places like R_D and red pill them. Though the more common places to red pill people are MRA type and pick-up artist places as well as anyone who expresses any sort of anti-feminism or anti-woman frustration or sentiment. And the more hardcore people just look at the light versions as people who haven't fully seen the light or are just at the light part of the transition process.

Then within the self-named 'alt-right' you have the hardcore versions and the 'alt-right' light versions. They fight with each other over people like Milo because he's gay and Jewish. In hardcore world purity matters, in light world there is some allowance for people other then white and straight. These factions have been full on fight since the fall.

As far as all being useless idiots, idiocy is relevant, but you only need a few lesser idiots to be the leaders and the useless idiots will follow in unison. When it comes to online attacks or spreading false info the leaders just give out the marching orders and they go. I expect that many are just about the memes and the lulz etc and wouldn't get super involved in real life actions. They provide the online support for the ones that are willing though.
posted by Jalliah at 5:09 AM on February 16, 2017 [6 favorites]


That probably comes naturally from several decades of neoliberalism. Keep telling people that everything's a commodity on the market, that we live in a just world where greed makes the world go round, the most mendacious sociopaths competing to screw the most people end up causing wealth to trickle down to the deserving, and the losers are those who don't deserve to win, and sociopathic amorality stops being a pathology and becomes a way of being sharp and on the ball.

Yes, this. I've had to take some business and information science classes as part of a particular certification program, and I hate to see these young people getting socialized into a really openly amoral-curious worldview. It is genuinely shocking. I was looking forward to the classes because I figured they'd be full of practical business information that would come as a surprise to me with my humanities background, but they are shockingly ideological and full of actual lies. Seriously, non-business majors have no idea the degree of propaganda and falsehood being promulgated. You assume that it's the right wing equivalent of having a socialist history professor who maybe leans a little heavily on socialist-only historiography, but it's not at all.

Again, I want to argue that while we're not seeing, like, human evil that is without precedent or something, we are seeing a set of historical circumstances that have coalesced since the end of the Cold War and have produced this new subjectivity, and I don't think that we are quite ready for that newness yet.
posted by Frowner at 5:16 AM on February 16, 2017 [27 favorites]


New cover of TIME

And here's their story: Inside Donald Trump's White House Chaos
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:17 AM on February 16, 2017 [13 favorites]




I wish we could stop giving McCain attention. He's starting to get into Kanye West territory for me.
posted by INFJ at 5:25 AM on February 16, 2017 [16 favorites]


New cover of TIME

Pretty good, but if you're going to depict trump's tie helpless and aloft in the wind, show me the Scotch* tape.

*Scotch(TM) tape is a registered trademark of 3M. The President's use of this fine adhesive product is not meant to constitute an endorsement of the 3M Company
posted by jackbishop at 5:39 AM on February 16, 2017 [11 favorites]


In /r/the_donald a contingent is obsessed with hunting pedophiles, which they see everywhere.

The trouble with simply dismissing this as projection (which I am certain it is, to a degree) is that "pedophilia" is everywhere. We have tolerated child sexual abuse at a surreal level in Western culture — gone to great lengths to rationalize it, excuse it, deny it, sweep it under the rug whenever and wherever it's occurred.

The occasional outbreak of McMartin-like hysteria, or the bleakly comical obsession with sekrit rings, spaces and codes that underlies Pizzagate, are bad-faith modes in which a society seeks to deal with the rape of children at scale when it can no longer fully suppress its awareness that these things are taking place.

As we know, though, the real perpetrators are for the most part much closer to home, and that poses a special problem both for the ordinary procedures of law enforcement and for the healing of the psyches that have endured this abuse. The bottom line is that we will never, ever rid ourselves of paranoid conspiracies about pedophile rings if we don't address the very real abuse that is actually happening under our own eyes, seemingly always and everywhere.
posted by adamgreenfield at 5:43 AM on February 16, 2017 [19 favorites]


This NYTimes article made me feel a bit better. It's been said before, but thank god for this administration's utter incompetence.

At this point in Barack Obama’s presidency, when Democrats controlled Washington, Congress had passed a stimulus bill totaling nearly $1 trillion to address the financial crisis, approved a measure preventing pay discrimination, expanded a children’s health insurance program, and begun laying the groundwork for major health care and financial regulation bills.
...
But in the 115th Congress, the Senate has done little more than struggle to confirm Mr. Trump’s nominees, and Republicans ultimately helped force his choice for labor secretary, Andrew F. Puzder, to withdraw from consideration on Wednesday in the face of unified Democratic opposition.

The House has spent most of its time picking off a series of deregulation measures, like overturning a rule intended to protect surface water from mining operations. For his part, Mr. Trump has relied mostly on executive orders to advance policies.

The inactivity stems from a lack of clear policy guidance — and, just as often, contradictory messages — from the Trump administration, which does not appear to have spent the campaign and transition periods forming a legislative wish list. Democrats have also led efforts to slow the confirmation of nominees to Mr. Trump’s cabinet who might otherwise be leading the charge.

posted by myelin sheath at 5:46 AM on February 16, 2017 [13 favorites]


Trump's F-35 Calls Came With a Surprise: Rival CEO Was Listening: After speaking with Trump, Bogdan wrote two three-page memos, titled “phone conversations with President-Elect,” dated Jan. 10 and 18th and stamped “For Official Use Only,” to limit distribution. They outlined Trump’s questions about the capabilities of Boeing’s Super Hornet fighter and how it might compete against Lockheed’s F-35C, said the people. About a dozen Pentagon officials were alerted to the calls after they occurred, the people said.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:55 AM on February 16, 2017 [19 favorites]


You know, yesterday I was finding humor in this. I almost bought the SO toilet paper with Trump's face on it. I decided against it, as the SO goes to a dark place when contemplating Trump, and maybe confronting DJT's visage while on the toilet was not conducive to toilet business. I was darkly amused because I told SO of this vetoed plan and he just recoiled at the idea of wiping his ass with DJT's face. My SO hates him to this degree, like, he won't soil his butt with the image of the Dark Lord.

But today I'm just like what is the end game here. I've written and deleted a bunch of stuff about what could happen, but ultimately there are evil people in power, you have highly mobilized factions of the populace, and you have an immobilized Congress.

Nothing good comes of this. Not in the next few years, anyways.
posted by angrycat at 5:57 AM on February 16, 2017 [7 favorites]


You know that execrable TV show with Kevin Bacon about the serial killer who starts a cult of serial killers? ...

they're not neo-nazis but bargain basement useless idiots who think it's all just a big game ...

I never thought it would happen, but apparently I have turned into one of those people who worries about the influence of our media diet. I am a bore who seldom watches movies or series and doesn't play video games. I am at least ten or twenty years behind on most stuff, and I have given up on ever catching up. When I do watch something of fairly recent vintage -- Deadpool; How to Get Away with Murder; Utopia; GTA -- I kind of flinch at the sleek, casual brutality. I hate to say it -- what have I become? -- but the level of skill and the amount of effort that's been invested in satisfying what appears to be an enormously demanding appetite for stylized hyperviolence and dominance fantasies is a bit scary. They don't so much portray violence as senseless cruelty and not conflict, but total war.
posted by dmh at 6:01 AM on February 16, 2017 [42 favorites]


So, the Russian Embassy in the US tweeted a weird/random picture of a burger restaurant a few days ago and said in the accompanying tweet that there were no talks between the US and Russia about sanctions. A twitter user tracked down the original image which was posted to facebook on 10/27 (day before Comey letter) by a company called Stevenson Sputnik and is from inside a St. Petersburg burger spot. Stevenson Sputnik is apparently a Russian/Montana cattle ranch operation that is upset about the sanctions. Possibly unrelated, Stevenson Sputnik opened in the same year that Trump Steaks started (2007).

This is all very very weird.
posted by melissasaurus at 6:05 AM on February 16, 2017 [46 favorites]


please everyone who was of age during watergate, keep repeating stuff like this.

Glad to help.

When Watergate happened, I literally crapped my pants. I was two.
posted by flarbuse at 6:08 AM on February 16, 2017 [42 favorites]


flarbuse, I was born the night of the actual break-in. Very possibly, I crapped on someone else's pants when it happened!
posted by wenestvedt at 6:10 AM on February 16, 2017 [11 favorites]


Seriously, non-business majors have no idea the degree of propaganda and falsehood being promulgated.

So, maybe I'm missing something here but I have a B.S. in finance and took many other business classes and what you're describing could not be farther from my experience. I came out of that program with a solid understanding of the advantages and weaknesses capitalism, how regulation is used to account for some of those weaknesses, and a lot of both macro and micro economic theory.

The business management classes hit the ethics stuff petty hard while presenting it as worthwhile both because it's the right thing to do and because, in the long run, it ends up making business sense too.

If I went back for my MBA, I'm not sure those classes could make me any more liberal than the classes I took for my B.S. but I'm sure they'd try.

So uh....#notallbusinessmajors I guess?
posted by VTX at 6:12 AM on February 16, 2017 [12 favorites]


It's after 9am, and Trump is still watching TV/tweeting. Unhinged.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:13 AM on February 16, 2017 [2 favorites]




Can anybody direct me to reliable sources on how Tillerson's name cropped up in the mix for Sec. of State? Who proposed him?
posted by MonkeyToes at 6:20 AM on February 16, 2017


I never thought it would happen, but apparently I have turned into one of those people who worries about the influence of our media diet.

I've always thought the whole "media doesn't change behavior, stop being such a prude" narrative was pretty feeble, honestly. It's not born out at the macro level - we know that representations of marginalized groups affect people's behavior. We know that advertising works, more or less. We have whole social formations - churches, radical groups, philosophy departments, etc, - devoted to working with certain ideas in order to produce and sustain certain subjectivities. And who among us has not, like, changed because of sustained exposure to some kind of narrative? My opinions about bodies and attractiveness, for instance, shifted dramatically after I started looking at body-positive fashion tumblrs all the time. Propaganda works, is what I'm saying.

It doesn't "work" in a totally linear way- we aren't all serial killers because of Hannibal, someone who likes kittens and baking and also the occasional ultraviolent TV show isn't going to turn into a monster, someone who really likes horror films might like them in part because the horror approach helps them process their own negative experiences and feelings, or because they are super into special effects.

And we get the propaganda that the times demand - I think that this is an extension of adamgreenfield's point about pedophilia.

At the same time, I think there's a feedback loop - watch a lot of ultraviolence, live in America, watch ultraviolence, etc and it helps to create and sustain some bad subjectivities.

And there's the question of how aesthetics work in a philosophy - a world of difference between a pro-cop show like Hill Street Blues, which is filmed in gritty-early-eighties-vision and centers upper working class characters and a pro-government-agent show like Sherlock, which is filmed in delux-cashmere-coat-o-vision and centers the upper class, for instance.
posted by Frowner at 6:23 AM on February 16, 2017 [29 favorites]


murphy slaw: please everyone who was of age during watergate, keep repeating stuff like this.

Not of age, but I get hope from this photo taken in the LA Times newsroom of two front pages, two years apart.
posted by bluecore at 6:24 AM on February 16, 2017 [23 favorites]


Trump, last week: "We’re going to be announcing something I would say over the two or three weeks that will be phenomenal in terms of tax.”

Yesterday: "Trump said his tax plan would be submitted in the 'not too distant future.'"

Today
: W&M Chair Brady pushes border adj tax. But says #taxreform will take backseat to #ACARepeal. No tax reform bill imminent.
posted by melissasaurus at 6:32 AM on February 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


Two years seems like such a long time, though. Two YEARS.
posted by something something at 6:32 AM on February 16, 2017 [7 favorites]


So, the Russian Embassy in the US tweeted a weird/random picture of a burger restaurant...This is all very very weird.

I couldn't figure out what this was driving at. Here's the theory for anyone else who was confused:

It's my belief this tweet from RU Embassy is a blackmail reminder to our admin & this is the meal they had.
posted by diogenes at 6:33 AM on February 16, 2017 [14 favorites]


but the level of skill and the amount of effort that's been invested in satisfying what appears to be an enormously demanding appetite for stylized hyperviolence and dominance fantasies is a bit scary.

I'm going to wax on a bit here, so forgive me.

I don't think there's an appetite for stylized hyperviolence. Action, for better or worse, is the least engaging type of entertainment. After all, there's not a lot of substance to the action. There's only so many high speed car chases, gun fights, and duels you can watch before it all blurs together and becomes boring.

So the answer to that problem is to stylize it. Pour a lot of effort into things that have never been done before. Bigger cars, more crashes, piles of dead nameless/faceless minions of the bad guy single-handedly killed by the protag. Super heroes brings missile-packing-strength that can level buildings. It's always got to be bigger and more extreme because otherwise it's just a parody of Die Hard with different characters. All action movies want to be like the Matrix. Remembered for somethings that no one has done before.

It's a problem with the action genre. Some of it is also because guys aren't suppose to like chick flicks. They're not going to go to their buddies and be like: "Hey, I saw La La Land and it was the shit, you should go see it." no, instead they went and seen John Wick 2.. because many many gun deaths. Because it's the manly thing to like.

The problem is multifaceted.
posted by INFJ at 6:33 AM on February 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


I've always thought the whole "media doesn't change behavior, stop being such a prude" narrative was pretty feeble.

I wonder if the way the US has been thinking about external threats since 9/11 has been reinforced by superhero movies. That's a lot of movies where the solution is to engage the bad guy with force and to then kill him/them/it at the end. Resolving problems does not require any intellectual ability only a superiority of violence. Dr. Strange was a nice deviation from this trope.
posted by Omon Ra at 6:37 AM on February 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


I was in high school during the Watergate hearings and I came home from school everyday to watch the hearings, live, on PBS. My primary memories leading up to the hearings were that the information was coming in as a drip, drip,drip, EXPLOSION, drip, drip, drip etc. But the media was simpler then. My sense of this news cycle is more explosions and less drips - there are too many sources of news/analysis to keep track of.

The hearings were remarkable in a number of ways but what was most memorable to me as a nerdy teenager was the sense that the country was in good hands, that this bi-partisan group would get to the truth, and above all, these congresspeople put country before party. It's the latter part that I'm the most concerned about now - this group of GOP congress people, with some exceptions, do not seem to think country should come before party. But that has been true throughout this election season (Paul Ryan is one of the most egregious examples). For those who have predicted that they will turn on Trump once their agenda gets pushed through may be right, but that agenda is going to take a very long time to push through. There is so much disarray and the Tea Party elected congresspeople will continue to be unwilling to compromise. And the Dems in congress are totally lacking in courage (with a few exceptions, I'm NOT looking at Nancy Pelosi here).

So, like Watergate? I wish.
posted by bluesky43 at 6:43 AM on February 16, 2017 [26 favorites]


I am a fan of some highly questionable media (my criteria isn't so much genre as much as "as it really really really well-made and thoughtful?" though I did decided that as funny as it is I could not hang with The Santa Clarita Diet because nope) but I found myself going off on a couple dinner party tirades about the postapocalyptic suvivalist genre and The Walking Dead because I find the feedback loop inherent there to be extremely troubling. I refuse to watch TWD now not because it isn't good (though... you know, that's debatable) but because I feel like when I do I'm contributing to a grave social ill.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:46 AM on February 16, 2017 [11 favorites]


I don't think there's an appetite for stylized hyperviolence. Action, for better or worse, is the least engaging type of entertainment. After all, there's not a lot of substance to the action

So the answer to that problem is to stylize it


You've touched on something similar to my domain of expertise, so I will take a break from constant high pitched horror shrieking to note that while I understand why you think this, it's wrong, but it's wrong in an interesting way. The way you add substance (and intensity!) to action is through story and character development, because it humanizes the characters involved and gets the audience invested in their personal stakes. But that's a) hard, and b) doesn't translate to foreign markets, and c) for some people, humanizing these characters defeats the purpose, because what they really want is the hyperviolence.

Modern zombie stuff often scratches this itch: how can I be as insanely, gleefully violent as possible, but still be the good guy? Be a zombie/alien/demon exterminator.

We haven't catered to these tastes accidentally; the market was there, and lost their fucking MINDS if anyone suggested there was something Maybe Not Great about their games/media.
posted by schadenfrau at 6:48 AM on February 16, 2017 [24 favorites]


I don't think it's courage that the Dems in congress are lacking, it's strategy. To be fair, I'm having a hard time picturing what the path forward actually is given that the Republicans have flat out stated that they DO NOT CARE that the country's getting sold out from under us because it's a Republican doing it. How do you challenge that? How do you push back against that?

It's not courage. They are (with Manchin being the usually shitlord exception) standing up against this as much as the confines allow, for now, but when one party is hellbent on obliterating our democracy and whose supporters actively encourage that, what do you do?

I mean, you need to make the Republicans fear the consequences and that's only going to come from either the law (with active investigations into the campaign's ties to Russia, his financials, or any other suit brought against him) or from overwhelming popular opposition. That's on us, not on the Dems in power.

They can resist within their parameters, they can denounce the IOIYAR hypocrisy as it happens, they can shout and yell and filibuster (once), but the rest is up to us and, honestly, the media latching on to a story and SCREAMING IT from the rooftops until it becomes the new zeitgeist.
posted by lydhre at 6:52 AM on February 16, 2017 [15 favorites]


I wonder if the way the US has been thinking about external threats since 9/11 has been reinforced by superhero movies. That's a lot of movies where the solution is to engage the bad guy with force and to then kill him/them/it at the end.

It's all supply side and no demand side. It's like we live in a James Bond movie. There's a finite number of terrorists, and when we kill them all we win the War on Terror.

There's no consideration of why people become terrorists and addressing underlying causes. For instance, pursuing a two-state solution to the Israel/Palestine situation that secured both states would have gone further at reducing terrorism than invading two countries and bungling it.
posted by kirkaracha at 6:54 AM on February 16, 2017 [6 favorites]


I feel like with the postapocalyptic stuff the messaging of many of this media has slid from "Wow, the apocalypse sucks, we should do whatever we can to prevent this from ever happening for realsies!" to "Wow, the apocalypse is awesome! You can kill and rape anyone you want and live out all your toxic masculinity fantasies! Let's do whatever we can to bring about the apocalypse pronto, it sounds fab!" Which meshes nicely with the preexisting "The apocalypse is the culmination of God's plan for humanity, and it'll suck for everyone else but I'll be raptured so let's hurry up and do this thing! Where's my red heifer?"

Basically: the US is in the thrall of death cults, one which has been around for quite a while and the other which is kind of new.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:54 AM on February 16, 2017 [51 favorites]


MetaFilter: an impenetrable palimpsest of jargon and influences
posted by Gelatin at 6:57 AM on February 16, 2017 [99 favorites]


Gelatin that is actually the most MetaFilter description that I've ever read.
posted by Tevin at 7:00 AM on February 16, 2017 [21 favorites]


We haven't catered to these tastes accidentally; the market was there

Oh, I agree. There are people going to see these movies only because they're hyperviolent.

But they're a subset of the population. They're the ones who play GTA and other FPS games that lack soul and human connection.

They can't be the driving factor for all action in action movies, though. Niche entertainment doesn't become a blockbuster. You have to appeal to the average citizen who likes a little action with their nicely developed characters. To appeal to the largest subset of people possible, and thus become a good selling movie: You end up with movies like Deadpool, which has gratuitous stylized violence and characters worth remembering.

Yes, that means you are exposing hyperviolence to people more often, and that very well might mean that you end up with people more desensitized to violence. I don't think that means your average citizen is going to be passive as war escalates, or is going to jump head first into the thick of it.

After all, wasn't the main criticism of Man of Steel the sheer lack of humanity for all the death and destruction they caused?

I know it's hard right now, but have more faith in humanity. We're capable of being manipulated and influenced, for sure.. but we're not hapless lemmings.
posted by INFJ at 7:01 AM on February 16, 2017 [2 favorites]



Can anybody direct me to reliable sources on how Tillerson's name cropped up in the mix for Sec. of State? Who proposed him?
So, you may remember Dr. Condoleeza Rice? Stanford professor, National Security Advisor, Secretary of State under George W. Bush? After the Obama inauguration she returned to teaching at Stanford, while her colleague Robert Gates continued in his role of Secretary of Defence for Barack Obama. Robert Gates also has a pretty long and storied career (25 years!) as a CIA agent, eventually rising to the role of Director under Reagan. After Gates retired from being Secretary of Defence, he and Rice founded a consulting agency with fellow security/foreign policy pro, Stephen Hadley: RiceHadleyGates. They start contracting out their foreign policy experience to various multinationals, including Exxon.

Rice and Gates were the ones who gave Trump Tillerson's name and built up his case as Secretary of State.

I have generally believed that the controversy over Tillerson's ties to Putin and the Russian-Exxon joint ventures were a bit of a red herring. I think that as much as I dislike Rice for leading the charge on the false case for the invasion of Iraq I don't believe that she's a traitor or a friend to Russia. Similarly, while Gates avoided controversy over Iran Contra, I don't think he's corrupt. I don't find it credible that either of them would've knowingly given Trump a Manchurian candidate. They are patriots in their own way.

I do believe, however, that nominating Tillerson was a pretty obvious betrayal of Trump's supposed to promise to avoid doing "business as usual" because if you wanted to do that, you wouldn't take your recommendations from two of the most establishment-y establishment people who ever established the establishment. I suspect, if anything, that installing Tillerson was a something like a bid from within a conservative/hawkish faction of the deep state to get a man inside when/if everything started to implode.
posted by bl1nk at 7:02 AM on February 16, 2017 [35 favorites]


The hyperviolence conversation is a derail.
posted by diogenes at 7:04 AM on February 16, 2017 [11 favorites]


It does seem the consensus is that the White House is going to turn the screws on leakers:

President Donald Trump’s latest round of early morning tweets this morning go well beyond the usual bluster about his opponents. He is now basically calling for the use of the government’s investigative machinery to be turned loose on them.... Note that Trump is now saying, in his first tweet above, that the leakers are going to get caught. This sounds very much like a call for investigations designed to ferret them out.
posted by My Dad at 7:07 AM on February 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


No derail! No derail! You're the derail!
posted by notyou at 7:09 AM on February 16, 2017 [44 favorites]


Note that Trump is now saying, in his first tweet above, that the leakers are going to get caught. This sounds very much like a call for investigations designed to ferret them out.

Maybe. but he's lost the intelligence community by and large and there are lots of ways individuals involved can slow and disrupt this. I think this is a distraction and as somebody upthread said, a billionaire coming in to investigate the intelligence community is not going to go well.
posted by bluesky43 at 7:10 AM on February 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


He is now basically calling for the use of the government’s investigative machinery to be turned loose on them....

If only he were the head of a branch that commands like 99 percent of the investigative power of the U.S. government.
posted by Etrigan at 7:10 AM on February 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


I mean, if Rex Tillerson is "the man inside" then we are all well and truly fucked.
posted by lydhre at 7:11 AM on February 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


I do believe, however, that nominating Tillerson was a pretty obvious betrayal of Trump's supposed to promise to avoid doing "business as usual" because if you wanted to do that, you wouldn't take your recommendations from two of the most establishment-y establishment people who ever established the establishment. I suspect, if anything, that installing Tillerson was a something like a bid from within a conservative/hawkish faction of the deep state to get a man inside when/if everything started to implode.

What does it tell us about that establishment, though, if the secret adult in the room is just as plausible as yet another Russian asset?
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:12 AM on February 16, 2017 [8 favorites]


Kinda think the leakers have a better idea how to play this game than the current President does.
posted by notyou at 7:12 AM on February 16, 2017 [28 favorites]


It does seem the consensus is that the White House is going to turn the screws on leakers

If the corrupt President decides to declare all out war on the overpowerful deep state, I'd say grab the popcorn and enjoy the show. They'll both end up losing and that's just fine by me.
posted by Glibpaxman at 7:13 AM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


I mean, I think the tricky things about media are:

1. What if you have many other intellectual influences in your life and just happen to enjoy, like, a show with fascist elements? I am really, really troubled by Sherlock, for instance, because of the way its aesthetics interact with its politics, but it's not like no one on the left watches it.

2. How media is totally pervasive if you let it be. Any of us can turn off the TV, phone, etc and take a big step back, but unlike ten or twenty years ago, if you don't do that, there is no natural pause in the media cycle. And it can be hard to decide to turn things off. So where you might naturally expect "a little bit of media, other stuff, a little bit of media, other stuff", it is far more often constant media.

3. Media consolidation and marketing - I know I'm a bit obsessed by Sherlock, but it's a paradigmatic show to me in the way that seamlessly integrates clothing and lifestyle advertising by making the show about a Sherlock who is fabulously wealthy and very fussy about material things. And the way that it's a British fashion thing, like that movie Kingsman was - there's all this interplay with lifestyle and fashion blogs. So there is this tremendous incentive to mix ultraviolence with advertising and consumption in a really coordinated way - it's not just a seventies Bond movie with Dunhill suits or even a kids' cartoon about a toy.

4. Because of this particular kind of advertising, there are a lot of shows and movies that really emphasize the fabulous wealth and unaccountability of the characters. Like, we all know that Tony Stark is fabulously wealthy and unaccountable, and we all know that all the Avengers are so well paid that they never need to think about money, etc etc.

So basically, we have a huge number of shows that are about super-wealthy, totally unaccountable people but unlike soap operas, these shows treat fabulous wealth and unaccountability as a....a sort of normalized backdrop. Soap operas tend to interrogate wealth and consumption, and to organize moral questions around wealth and consumption. The new shows just assume that naturally anyone interesting is going to be super-wealthy and require 500 threadcount sheets, etc, and where they get their money is of no interest whatsoever.

To me, this is just as much a contributor to the generally fascist outlook of mass media as anything else - it's different from "zombie death cult kill kill" shows in that it's more respectable and conceals the social violence implicit in great wealth. (Like, Tony Stark may not be a weapons manufacturer anymore, but do you think that having as much money as he's supposed to - or as Mycroft is supposed to - doesn't implicate them in a million things that are just as bad?) It's also hyper-consumption-oriented - stylized luxury to match the stylized violence.

One of the things that my business classes return to again and again is how "rising customer expectations" drive business processes. "The customer" just won't accept anything except the gratification of their every whim, regardless of the social or environmental cost, so we just have to screw labor and the environment. This is ideology, and it produces us as workers and consumers. It dovetails with these fascist television programs, in that it centers the consuming subject. What could possibly be better than unlimited access to everything you want - whether that's unaccountable political power or a cashmere overcoat - the instant you want it, regardless of other people?

Of course, that's not even remotely true - lots of things are better than "whatever I want the second I want it" - so we need a lot of television and education to produce people who think that way. "Whatever I want the second I want it" is fundamentally fascist, because it requires everyone else to be totally disempowered and silenced.
posted by Frowner at 7:16 AM on February 16, 2017 [53 favorites]


I don't think it's courage that the Dems in congress are lacking, it's strategy.

The only strategy I've seen is to respond to events in order to maximize the likelihood of re-election. I agree that it is the people who are out in front with the Dems in congress responding to the people, but it all seems rather ceremonial to me. I suppose that is better than nothing but these people are elected officials who are supposed to be leading rather than following. I expect more and the current times demand more. There are some exceptions but there's the sense, at least to me, that these newer voices have to 'wait their turn'. I fed up with that strategy too.
posted by bluesky43 at 7:16 AM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


If the corrupt President decides to declare all out war on the overpowerful deep state, I'd say grab the popcorn and enjoy the show. They'll both end up losing and that's just fine by me.

When Godzilla and Mothra slug it out, it's Tokyo that gets flattened.
posted by acb at 7:16 AM on February 16, 2017 [39 favorites]


Trump's problem in going to war with his bureaucracy is that nobody on his team has any real links to those bureaucracies. Bannon can't get on the phone and call up one of his drinking buddies at the CIA and ask WTF is up over there, can you have a look around? The longer they go without staffing up, the longer this gap remains.
posted by notyou at 7:17 AM on February 16, 2017 [9 favorites]



Part of his strategy to turn the screws on the leakers is to bring in a Bannon and Kushner billionaire banker buddy to oversee the ferreting process.

I expect that is going to going to go off without any hitches.
posted by Jalliah at 7:18 AM on February 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


Hypothesis: the New York billionaire investigator is merely a cover; the actual information for tracking down leakers will come, through a back channel, from Russian intelligence, who have extensively penetrated the US IC.
posted by acb at 7:20 AM on February 16, 2017 [27 favorites]


So one of my senators, James Lankford (R), is having a town hall tonight. He is one of the members of the Senate Intel Committee, so I am hoping to ask him to call for an investigation into the administration's ties to Russia.

The kicker is that rather than do his town hall in person, he's doing it by telephone. We had to call his office, give them our phone number, and were told we would be receiving a telephone call that would add us to the teleconference where we can hear other callers participating. We have been told hat if we want to ask a question, we would be placed in a queue, and he would answer as many questions as he could within one hour.

On one hand, a teleconference is a cool idea as it theoretically allows more of his constituents to participate, but the fact that he's only spending an hour answering questions tells me that he's afraid of having to field angry questions than honestly engaging with his constituents. This seems like a cynical strategy to be able to tell the media he's doing a town hall while avoiding viral images of angry people showing up to confront him.

Is this a new thing? Are there other reps and senators doing this as well?
posted by Dr. Zira at 7:22 AM on February 16, 2017 [8 favorites]


God, he's on about the 306 seats on Twitter again.
What's the over/under on him getting a "306" face tattoo, or using an executive order to replace the flag of the United States with a giant sign showing just that number in Gothic font?
posted by PontifexPrimus at 7:22 AM on February 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


How would that even work? Rex Tillerson, actual US loyalist, pushed by US intelligence to pretend (very convincingly) to be a man working for Russian and personal interests (for the past x years as CEO of Exxon? that's some deep cover), so he could be hired and confirmed by a US President in Russia's pockets, in the hopes that he'd then, at the appropriate time, work against Russian powers controlling the presidency, all the while removing Russian sanctions and working with Russia to favor their - and Exxon's - oil interests and maintain his relationships with the oligarchs?

Occam's razor says he's just in it for the Russian money too.
posted by lydhre at 7:22 AM on February 16, 2017 [9 favorites]


Rex Tillerson got that medal from the Russians because he showed them how to do fracking right. Or so says my friend in the oil services industry down here in Louisiana.
posted by nolabasashi at 7:25 AM on February 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


Hypothesis: the New York billionaire investigator is merely a cover; the actual information for tracking down leakers will come, through a back channel, from Russian intelligence, who have extensively penetrated the US IC.
posted by acb at 10:20 AM on February 16 [+] [!]


James Jesus Angleton, is that you?
posted by Chrischris at 7:25 AM on February 16, 2017 [7 favorites]


Is this a new thing? Are there other reps and senators doing this as well?

It is not a new thing and it is absolutely a way to cherry-pick friendly questions and avoid bad optics.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:26 AM on February 16, 2017 [10 favorites]


Tele-townhalls are a joke. It's a way to maintain control while still pretending like they made an honest effort to hear from constituents. Questions will be filtered beforehand and there will be little actual engagement.
posted by Tevin at 7:26 AM on February 16, 2017 [20 favorites]


Re: teleconferencing senators

Is this a new thing? Are there other reps and senators doing this as well?

Don't know if it's new but my Senator, Tester (D, barely) just did an "online town hall." First I remember seeing it. Our other Senator, Daines (R, not barely) is showing no signs of ever doing any kind of town hall ever again, online or otherwise. Dude is hiding and has battened down the hatches.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:26 AM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


I know I should be frightened, but I'm really enjoying the fact that he's getting taken down by an enemy he antagonized for literally no reason. Of course this living rebuke to meritocracy goes down because of an unforced error. Not because of Justice or the rule of law or because of a moral awakening. Because he's a fucking idiot.
posted by schadenfrau at 7:26 AM on February 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


Check that MeFi thread on "where have your MoC gone?" from a few days ago. Yes, teleconferencing is the new town hall.
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:27 AM on February 16, 2017 [6 favorites]




Tele-townhalls are a joke. It's a way to maintain control while still pretending like they made an honest effort to hear from constituents. Questions will be filtered beforehand and there will be little actual engagement.

So pretty much like a Reddit AMA then? How do they filter calls? Will we be asked to record our question first?
posted by Dr. Zira at 7:29 AM on February 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


> he's getting taken down

Whoa whoa, let's not get too excited. There's yipping at heels but there's no full-on takedown yet. Congressional GOP are not going to move against President Trump until his presence in the White House impedes or limits their agenda. Unless they move against the President, he's pretty insulated.
posted by Tevin at 7:29 AM on February 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


Angry mobs of constituents can't chant "Do your job!" at you on a conference call.
posted by diogenes at 7:30 AM on February 16, 2017 [11 favorites]


Cowards.

Meanwhile, that Angleton bio is fascinating!

Operations:

Enigma Code
Manhattan Project
Operation CHAOS


Say, I think I spotted where America went wrong.
posted by notyou at 7:32 AM on February 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


So pretty much like a Reddit AMA then? How do they filter calls? Will we be asked to record our question first?

Yep, feel free to submit a question, citizen. But the only ones they'll answer are prescreened softballs from right wing radio or MAGA cops, or school kids asking about the congressman's new puppy.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:33 AM on February 16, 2017 [6 favorites]


And you don't get 200 people shouting them down and pointing out how wrong they are when they start spewing bullshit answers.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:34 AM on February 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


>He is now basically calling for the use of the government’s investigative machinery to be turned loose on them....

If only he were the head of a branch that commands like 99 percent of the investigative power of the U.S. government.


Yes. Your new attorney general is one bad dude.
posted by My Dad at 7:35 AM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


b) doesn't translate to foreign markets,

Coming back to this point a ways upthread and, forgive me, skipping over a bunch of comments that may well have dealt with this by now, but there it is. At least in the case of Hollywood specifically, something close to the root cause of all this is the tuning of media properties (which are first and foremost, NB, understood as properties and not as works of expression) so that they are optimized to generate revenue in a fully globalized, post-literate marketplace.

Character development and other forms of complexity will always suffer in a possibility space whose bounding constraints are imposed by the needs of film-understood-as-investment-vehicle.
posted by adamgreenfield at 7:36 AM on February 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


Unless they [Congress] move against the President, he's pretty insulated.

I don't know, I think the legal proceedings by some of the states could have some teeth. If Shugerman can prove standing, it's going to be a hell of a dog fight. At the very least, it increases the chances of another unforced error as he tries to conceal whatever misdeeds he thinks will be ferreted out in discovery.
posted by Mayor West at 7:36 AM on February 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


The kicker is that rather than do his town hall in person, he's doing it by telephone. We had to call his office, give them our phone number, and were told we would be receiving a telephone call that would add us to the teleconference where we can hear other callers participating. We have been told hat if we want to ask a question, we would be placed in a queue, and he would answer as many questions as he could within one hour.

Here's what's gonna happen:

You are not going to get a call if you have ever called your Rep or Senator and expressed an opinion that is not "You are awesome." The next day, there will be an email or a tweet saying that there were mistakes by the third-party company that is usually very good at this, and the Rep/Sen was very angry about this, and the mistakes have been addressed.

If you do manage to get on the call, your question will be vetted by a staffer. You will hear a dozen variations on "Why are you so awesome, and how can I help you be more awesome?" and "Why are the Democrats so mean to you, and how can I help shield you from their meanness?" and "Is our current president a great president or the greatest president?" (note the lack of actually saying the name there -- that is intentional on their part). Your question will not appear, unless it is a very anodyne "Gee, I really like almost everything that you and our president are doing, but there's this one thing that I kinda feel odd about..." (this will be a subject that the GOP is out of step with your personal district on, e.g. a Michigander not wanting the auto industry to die immediately).

You will be subjected to a bunch of "polls" where you get to press *1 if you feel like The Economy is a big problem or *2 if you feel like Immigration is a big problem, etc. Some of those may even be "hilarious" polls like press *1 if the local sports team is going to go all the way this year or *2 if the local sports team is going to do really well but not quite go all the way.

And it will be pointless and you will be madder after than you were before.
posted by Etrigan at 7:37 AM on February 16, 2017 [26 favorites]


Close down the internet, everyone, we have a winner.
posted by soren_lorensen



Oh my god, soren...I am cracking up like a lunatic here at my desk! The hapless victim's head-shake is priceless. :D
posted by darkstar at 7:37 AM on February 16, 2017


I know it's hard right now, but have more faith in humanity. We're capable of being manipulated and influenced, for sure.. but we're not hapless lemmings.

Please don't tell me how to interpret the evidence I'm presented with.
posted by adamgreenfield at 7:38 AM on February 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


It's all supply side and no demand side. It's like we live in a James Bond movie. There's a finite number of terrorists, and when we kill them all we win the War on Terror.

Which is exactly the same as the approach to undocumented immigration: let's build a giant (impossible, stupid) fucking wall, but let's not ever think at all about economic and social conditions in Guatemala.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:40 AM on February 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


This Guardian story on Deutsche Bank's dealings with Trump has some juicy speculation. They've added an interstitial about how to contact the paper anonymously with leaked info too lol.

I've been curious about the Deutsche Bank angle since it came out during the election that they are holding a ton of trumpco's debt. The article has no real smoking gun, but is suggesting that trumps ties to the bank are... unusual to say the least, given that he sued Deutsche for billions and they came right back and loaned him piles of cash.
posted by aiglet at 7:40 AM on February 16, 2017 [9 favorites]


I don't know. If he turns out to be the one who sets things right, we should just pay his bill.

Isn't that price a $500,000,000,000 oil deal with Russia/Exxon mobile? I don't see how that's good for the world in any way.

I think people are confusing Rex Tillerson's competence and having different goals as an "inside man". His goals don't include the white nationalist agenda, which is great, but he's still not a good guy, and he's not on our side. He's still out for himself and his own.
posted by mayonnaises at 7:41 AM on February 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


'Telephone terrorism' has rattled 48 Jewish centers. Is anyone paying attention?

There's a picture of the evacuation at the Albany (NY) JCC. My tenant had to leave her job as their receptionist because of the stress of answering bomb threats wasn't worth the paycheck.
posted by mikelieman at 7:42 AM on February 16, 2017 [11 favorites]


I've been curious about the Deutsche Bank angle since it came out during the election that they are holding a ton of trumpco's debt.

And Deutshe Bank has been implicated in Russian money laundering.

New Yorker: "How a scheme to help Russians secretly funnel money offshore unravelled."
posted by diogenes at 7:43 AM on February 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


From the leaked Ginni Thomas email article:

“What is the best way to, with minimal costs, set up a daily text capacity for a ground up-grassroots army for pro-Trump daily action items to push back against the left’s resistance efforts who are trying to make America ungovernable?” she wrote.

I've had low points since 11/9. I've had low points that made the other low points seem like high points; every time I thought Trump's Razor had finally slashed its owner's orange throat, another "surely this" sandwich, with its free side of "WHO could BE this fucking STUPID and INCOMPETENT?!" would come down the pike. And promptly gobbled up by the institutions that are supposed to protect us from that stupidity and incompetence: Congress, the press, law enforcement.

Which has motivated me to take action, in ways I haven't since my activist days 20 years ago. Since the election, I've marched, I've networked, I've gone to the meetings, I've made calls and sent postcards. I'll admit it, though: a good part of my motivation was selfish—if we're going down in the history books as America's fascist era, I figured, I'll be damned if I'm not one of the ones who at least spoke up against it. And it feels good to unite with others in resistance, and know our numbers are large (even yee-uge, sometimes), and see the awesome efforts and actions and orgs spring up from nowhere.

But those are sometimes only salve for the wounds of helplessness. It's so easy to feel totally powerless against a fascist demagogue, his mouth-breathing base, the politicians who happily go over the cliff along with them, and the echo chamber that keeps it all spinning. For every one of me freezing his ass off at the march, there's a hundred Trumpies burning me in effigy over a coal fire, and a FOX News jackoff telling him it's the Christian thing to do.

It's only when I see stuff like the email from Thomas that it hits home for me. This is why we fight back. THIS IS WHY WE FIGHT BACK. If our efforts were as pointless as they sometimes feel, there would be no "How we do we stop the peasants from storming the gates?" or "These people are gonna become ungovernable!" You wouldn't need right-wing listservs, or riot cops, or a circle of leggy blondes on TV shaking their heads at the liberals' latest stunt to mount a defense. Because that shit would be so locked up, such a forgone conclusion, that resistance wouldn't be a threat—it'd be a joke, as harmless as Flat Earthers or "bring back the McRib" Facebook warriors.

I'm not deluded that all this means we're going to win big, or even win often. We're going to get really good at losing for a while. But losers are still in the game, and as the Moral Majority and formerly voiceless white nationalists can tell you, you can't win if you don't fight.

SO... sorry for the long (and on preview, sappy, Jesus!) post, but it just feels good to vent happy feelings every once in a while in this shitstorm. And while I'm here—thanks in general, MeFi threads, for keeping me sane and moored to some semblance of knowing what the fuck is going on, and what I can join others in doing about it.

Tl;DR: Ginni Thomas's emails reflect something important to keep in mind: resistance works. Don't give up!
posted by Rykey at 7:43 AM on February 16, 2017 [131 favorites]


Rykey - I'm with you.
posted by bluesky43 at 7:47 AM on February 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


'Telephone terrorism' has rattled 48 Jewish centers. Is anyone paying attention?

If there's any good that Trump's horrible answer gave us, it's that the media seems like it realizes that it needs to cover the bomb threats that have been happening over the last three months.
posted by dinty_moore at 7:47 AM on February 16, 2017 [6 favorites]


God, he's on about the 306 seats on Twitter again.

Beyond the fact that his EC total is 46th out of 58 elections, and that he lost the PV by 2.9m, his EC total was actually 304.
posted by chris24 at 7:50 AM on February 16, 2017 [24 favorites]




People are seriously underweighting the odds that Trump will prevail in his struggle with the IC

Says David Frum. True or not, I'm not going to take the news I most don't want to hear from the person I most don't want to hear from.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:56 AM on February 16, 2017 [12 favorites]


Breaking news that Trump is holding a 12pmET news conference from the East Room.
posted by chris24 at 7:59 AM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


We’re going to be announcing something I would say over the two or three weeks that will be phenomenal in terms of tax.”

this has been your daily reminder that, due to native stupidity or progressive organic brain injury, the president of the united states cannot assemble a coherent sentence
posted by murphy slaw at 8:02 AM on February 16, 2017 [7 favorites]


Breaking news that Trump is holding a 12pmET news conference from the East Room.

It's probably about investigating the leaks, right?
posted by diogenes at 8:03 AM on February 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


If there's any good that Trump's horrible answer gave us, it's that the media seems like it realizes that it needs to cover the bomb threats that have been happening over the last three months.

Reporting on bomb threats can be a delicate business. As they are ongoing investigations, the media usually looks to law enforcement on how to proceed. Because copy cat bomb threats are predictably common thing, the standard LE playbook is to minimize media coverage. It's not an endorsement of antisemitism for these bomb threats to go underreported, but an unfortunate reality of the nature of the crime.
posted by peeedro at 8:03 AM on February 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


I bet he's officially announcing an investigation into the leaks, bringing us that much closer to a full dictatorship.
posted by lydhre at 8:03 AM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]



Any info on what it's about? Bets?

An IC we're officially at war announcement?
Something else entirely to try to get another narrative going?
Tax stuff?
New Muslim ban plan?
posted by Jalliah at 8:04 AM on February 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


Press conference is supposedly about the new labor nominee, though he can never stay on topic so who knows what it will end up actually being about.
posted by melissasaurus at 8:05 AM on February 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


Probably just going to take credit for stopping Bin Laden.
posted by drezdn at 8:05 AM on February 16, 2017 [2 favorites]



Twitter is saying the pool is saying it's a labor secretary announcement.
posted by Jalliah at 8:05 AM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


You are not going to get a call if you have ever called your Rep or Senator and expressed an opinion that is not "You are awesome." The next day, there will be an email or a tweet saying that there were mistakes by the third-party company that is usually very good at this, and the Rep/Sen was very angry about this, and the mistakes have been addressed. [...]

Do reps generally operate these shams from their local offices? Would it be worthwhile to independently organize to show up to a "telephone town hall" in person?

Would this be worthwhile even if the cowardly rep in question isn't at their local office? Is it possible to condition cowardly reps against holding fake town halls by swarming their local offices whenever they try that nonsense?
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 8:06 AM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


Twitterbox says announcement of a new Sec Labor nominee
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:06 AM on February 16, 2017


Twitter is saying the pool is saying it's a labor secretary announcement.

i think he'd like it to be a labor secretary announcement but i'm not sure if the press is in a mood to let that be the entire topic
posted by murphy slaw at 8:07 AM on February 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


Reporting on bomb threats can be a delicate business. As they are ongoing investigations, the media usually looks to law enforcement on how to proceed. Because copy cat bomb threats are predictably common thing, the standard LE playbook is to minimize media coverage. It's not an endorsement of antisemitism for these bomb threats to go underreported, but an unfortunate reality of the nature of the crime.

Well, except that local coverage has covered the individual bomb threats, but they haven't really noted that it's a trend. So you still have the opportunity for copycat bomb threats, you just don't have anyone explicitly noting the antisemitism.
posted by dinty_moore at 8:07 AM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


I always support swarming your rep's local offices, tbh. Whenever you and 300 of your closest friends have a free moment, go pay a friendly visit!
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:08 AM on February 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


They can't be the driving factor for all action in action movies, though. Niche entertainment doesn't become a blockbuster.

I will admit that I enjoy the "bad thing happens-good guys solve mystery-bad person is caught" dynamic of cop/detective shows. But what I've noticed is that shows the glory in the violence (Criminal Minds) and/or show people being tortured force me to click away until that part is over. What I want is the satisfaction of the story loop, not the blood and screaming.

More and more I just avoid those shows altogether because I do feel like I'm encouraging something gross and wrong. And then there's the fact that they act as pro-cop propaganda, intentionally or not, in an era when cops are people we have good reason to fear.

And yeah, I do think that affects our public discourse.
posted by emjaybee at 8:09 AM on February 16, 2017 [10 favorites]


It's not an endorsement of antisemitism for these bomb threats to go underreported, but an unfortunate reality of the nature of the crime.

The bomb threats have been reported and in the news, however briefly, but there has been a worrying lack of official response to them, and the commentary to that had been a big shrug, as if we are supposed to accept that America is now just trump-land and white nationalist violence is semi-officially endorsed.

It's one of the more quietly terrifying things that have been happening lately.
posted by Artw at 8:09 AM on February 16, 2017 [27 favorites]


The press conference is to tell us he got 306 electoral votes and that reports he got 304 are fake news.
posted by kelborel at 8:10 AM on February 16, 2017 [11 favorites]


todo make "Fridays with Feinstein" a thing
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 8:11 AM on February 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


So which conservative outlets get called on today to ensure there's no Russia questions?
posted by chris24 at 8:12 AM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


todo make "Fridays with Feinstein" a thing

I want this to be a morning show with an anchor reading unanswered constituent letters to a silent cardboard cutout of Senator Feinstein.
posted by snuffleupagus at 8:13 AM on February 16, 2017 [7 favorites]



So which conservative outlets get called on today to ensure there's no Russia questions?


Whichever one has agreed to ask a question about what he is planning to do with the leakers is my guess.
posted by Jalliah at 8:14 AM on February 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


Mick Mulvaney just got confirmed to be director of OMB. So now the person who is largely in control of the executive branch's purse-strings is this guy:
The host asked Muvlaney if he was willing to “risk the possibility of a default on our debt.” Mulvaney responded that he has “no difficulty in” voting against raising the debt limit and that it’s worth it to “force a discussion” about spending. The host then followed up by asking, “What do you think would happen if the debt ceiling wasn’t raised?” Mulvaney responded, “Well, I don’t know. I’ve asked that question a lot. I’ve heard Goolsbee on Sunday say it’d be catastrophic, I’ve heard others say that. I did some research last night from [the Congressional Research Service], they don’t know what that means. I think they’re guessing”
posted by zombieflanders at 8:15 AM on February 16, 2017 [8 favorites]


Emoluments: Trump receives Chinese trademark in exchange for "One China" statement.


Nothing to see here, folks. Move along.
posted by darkstar at 8:16 AM on February 16, 2017 [58 favorites]


Any idea who the Labor Secretary nominee would be? I saw some Wisconsin politicians say Scott Walker was interested, but I don't know if Trump would want him.
posted by drezdn at 8:18 AM on February 16, 2017




Emoluments: Trump receives Chinese trademark in exchange for "One China" statement.

What's the old quote, "I'm not surprised he's for sale, I'm surprised at how cheap he can be bought."
posted by cmfletcher at 8:19 AM on February 16, 2017 [32 favorites]


This is an interesting addition to the WH strategy regarding the Russia question. Is there an overall strategy they're rolling with? Or is Mattis just sorta out there doing his thing and they'll figure out how it all fits together at some later date.

Mattis: 'Very little doubt' Russia has interfered in elections

Defense Secretary James Mattis on Thursday said that there was "very little doubt" Russia has attempted to interfere in democratic elections in the past.

"There is very little doubt that they have either interfered or attempted to interfere in a number of elections in democracies," Mattis said while answering questions at NATO headquarters in Brussels.

He added that he does not feel compelled to respond to Russian officials who were not pleased with his call to deal with Moscow from a position of strength.

"I have no need to respond to the Russian statement at all. NATO has always stood for military strength and protection of democracies and the freedoms we intend to pass on to our children," he said.

posted by Jalliah at 8:20 AM on February 16, 2017 [10 favorites]


@Acosta
Warning from POTUS: "we are gonna find the leakers and they'll pay."


Well, the war with the Deep State has been going excellent for him so far.
posted by chris24 at 8:20 AM on February 16, 2017 [7 favorites]


Any idea who the Labor Secretary nominee would be?

I hear the reanimated carcass of King Leopold II is available.
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:20 AM on February 16, 2017 [18 favorites]


@Acosta
Warning from POTUS: "we are gonna find the leakers and they'll pay."


Which immediately turned into an orgy of pee jokes. "Did they check the Russian brothels where he left them" and "to think he used to pay for leaks".
posted by Talez at 8:21 AM on February 16, 2017 [8 favorites]


So which conservative outlets get called on today to ensure there's no Russia questions?

Does RT count as a conservative outlet?
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 8:21 AM on February 16, 2017 [8 favorites]


Emoluments: Trump receives Chinese trademark in exchange for "One China" statement.

And that's how a sociopathic billionaire demagogue gets tough on GI-na.

Demagogic billionaire sociopath? Billionairic sociopathic demagogue? I can't keep track anymore.
posted by Rykey at 8:22 AM on February 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


Warning from POTUS: "we are gonna find the leakers and they'll pay."

on the one hand, this is slightly worrisome. on the other hand, if the administration had enough control over the bureaucracy to find and stop the leaks, we wouldn't be seeing this volume of leaks in the first place.
posted by murphy slaw at 8:22 AM on February 16, 2017 [8 favorites]


How long before one of these Skype edgelords decides to burn Spicy for internet cred?
posted by snuffleupagus at 8:22 AM on February 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


@Acosta
Warning from POTUS: "we are gonna find the leakers and they'll pay."


"Oh, you'll pay! Don't think you won't pay!"
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:24 AM on February 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


Which immediately turned into an 'orgy of pee' joke s

FTFY
posted by snuffleupagus at 8:26 AM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


@maggieNYT
Trump's frustration at overseeing an entity that he can't scare w NDAs for first time in his life is bleeding out over leaks.

---

And press conference has been moved to 12:30
posted by chris24 at 8:27 AM on February 16, 2017 [24 favorites]


Back in the last thread a bunch of us were put in the uncomfortable position of being happy about something Dana Rohrabacher did (pushed a bill to make DOJ respect state marijuana laws) so we can all take comfort in the fact that balance has been restored.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:28 AM on February 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


leakspin.gif
posted by theodolite at 8:29 AM on February 16, 2017 [9 favorites]


Somebody on Trump's latest TV round-table just reminded him he was once on the tv show The Nanny
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:30 AM on February 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


Warning from POTUS: "we are gonna find the leakers and they'll pay."

They'll be paying for all sorts of things, I'm sure, once the advances come in on their tell-all book deals.
posted by snuffleupagus at 8:30 AM on February 16, 2017 [8 favorites]


As an aside, I have been seeing a lot of warnings to left protesters to be very careful about showing up to Trump's rally this weekend.

While I think caution is warranted, I think it's less likely that President Bannon is planning to execute some kind of Reichstag fire than President Trump is just looking for an excuse to spend another weekend in Florida.
posted by Tevin at 8:32 AM on February 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


WTF? _rump plans to have a Wall Street friend of Bannon's "review" the intelligence agencies? This sounds seriously scary and fucked up to me.
posted by dnash at 8:33 AM on February 16, 2017 [7 favorites]




Even in the bad timeline, every now and then you can wake up, open your browser and see some promising news. From Raw Story: He Will Die in Jail, Intelligence Community ready to go nuclear source says.

True or not, the headline is enough to make my day feel brighter.
posted by gusottertrout at 8:33 AM on February 16, 2017 [20 favorites]


if the administration had enough control over the bureaucracy to find and stop the leaks, we wouldn't be seeing this volume of leaks in the first place.

It's just week 4 of the new administration. They will assert control.
posted by My Dad at 8:33 AM on February 16, 2017


In re defaulting on the debt ceiling: that's pretty risky. It would be terrifying because it would suggest - to me at least - that subsequent elections would be canceled, because the impact on Medicare, Social Security, the CDC, etc - not to mention the impact on the markets and employment - would be so great that it would make people really angry at Republicans. This is what happened last time when we had a strong economy and a president who attempted to mitigate the situation. It would be total chaos and disaster with Trump in power.

If they don't raise the debt ceiling with a Republican president in office, they will absolutely, 100% own the results. It would be worse than a total ACA repeal in terms of making people who don't otherwise care pay attention. It might actually produce an "Arab Spring" scenario.

Honestly, unless they are really ready to go 100% dictatorship/blood and fire, I think they won't do it. I'm not saying that they could never go 100% dictatorship, but it's an all-in decision. You can't go back, there's no return to normal if it doesn't work, you're going to wreck your support among literally every single person who is not either employed by the regime or rich enough to protect themselves from the consequences, etc. And there's a lot of failure points - what happens when you smash everything and California, for example, doesn't go along with you and basically starts operating like an independent country? Do you send in troops?

Bannon et al are stupid enough to think that they could maybe pull this off (it's astonishing that he sees himself as Lenin and does not seem to understand how touch-and-go a lot of the Russian Revolution was, and how really terrible things got in a lot of ways for most people even with the sincere efforts of the early Soviet state to implement full communism). But I think they don't have the power to get everyone onboard, and they'd need everyone onboard.
posted by Frowner at 8:33 AM on February 16, 2017 [8 favorites]


They'll be paying for all sorts of things, I'm sure, once the advances come in on their tell-all book deals.

However you feel about them, the leaks are crimes, so I doubt anybody is going to write a book about their role.
posted by diogenes at 8:34 AM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


we are gonna find the leakers and they'll pay.

WTF? _rump plans to have a Wall Street friend of Bannon's "review" the intelligence agencies? This sounds seriously scary and fucked up to me.

Going to war with your own intelligence services? This kind of thing always goes well.
posted by dis_integration at 8:34 AM on February 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


Not just a Bannon pal but a fellow member of the Brotherhood of Steves, Stephen Feinberg.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:37 AM on February 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


It won't be the leakers per se writing the tell-alls, but it'll be journalists and insiders who were adjacent to the leaking and it'll be fascinating. If we survive that long.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:37 AM on February 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


However you feel about them, the leaks are crimes, so I doubt anybody is going to write a book about their role.

You'll find the stories written into fiction.
posted by Jalliah at 8:37 AM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


This time last year, this would be laughable as fiction. Today, it's just how we live now.
posted by thebrokedown at 8:39 AM on February 16, 2017 [7 favorites]


I read that as 'we've got a great excuse now to fire and/or force out a lot of civil servants and/or Democrats and/or prior appointees who were asked to stay

Given that they can't even staff the White House to non-ghost-town levels, I'm sure this'll go well.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:40 AM on February 16, 2017 [20 favorites]


If only the karma was spread out a bit more over the Trumpettes.

Judge finds probable cause to charge Christie over Bridgegate
posted by chris24 at 8:42 AM on February 16, 2017 [31 favorites]




i'm sure that staffing the agencies is getting easier and easier as the lingering stench of flop sweat gathers around the administration
posted by murphy slaw at 8:43 AM on February 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


It's just week 4 of the new administration. They will assert control.

It's week 4 and they're no closer to figuring out how to assert control, let alone doing it.
posted by Artw at 8:43 AM on February 16, 2017 [10 favorites]


I wish I shared that optimism.
posted by My Dad at 8:44 AM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


Given that they can't even staff the White House to non-ghost-town levels, I'm sure this'll go well.

I've been wondering about this: is the White House fully staffed? How many people do they have working now, compared to under Obama?
posted by suelac at 8:45 AM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


10 Resign from President’s Advisory Commission on Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders

In the letter addressed to Trump and obtained by NBC News on Wednesday, the 10 members — approximately two-thirds of the commission — stated their objection to the president's "portrayal of immigrants, refugees, people of color and people of various faiths as untrustworthy, threatening, and a drain on our nation."
posted by futz at 8:45 AM on February 16, 2017 [46 favorites]


It's just week 4 of the new administration. They will assert control.

It might help if they had any competency. Or minus that, staff in place? Hard to assert control when you haven't even put forward 95% of the nominees.

From kirkaracha's post above:

Of 696 key positions requiring Senate confirmation…

Awaiting nomination: 661
Awaiting confirmation: 23
Confirmed: 12
posted by chris24 at 8:46 AM on February 16, 2017 [7 favorites]


>Bannon et al are stupid enough to think that they could maybe pull this off (it's astonishing that he sees himself as Lenin and does not seem to understand how touch-and-go a lot of the Russian Revolution was, and how really terrible things got in a lot of ways for most people even with the sincere efforts of the early Soviet state to implement full communism). But I think they don't have the power to get everyone onboard, and they'd need everyone onboard.

I feel confident saying that, despite his posturing, Bannon knows precisely fuckall about Lenin. I feel confident saying this specifically because in the interviews where he postures as a Leninist, his description of what being a Leninist means never gets any farther than "smash the state."

The 20th century has taught us what happens when power is seized by people who haven't actually read the Bolsheviks, but who enjoy posturing as Bolsheviks. Cambodia happens.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 8:47 AM on February 16, 2017 [15 favorites]


"You go to war with the intelligence services you have, not the intelligence services you might want or wish to have at a later time. Since this presidency began, the intelligence services have been pressing ahead to produce the leaking necessary at a rate that they believe -- it's a greatly expanded rate from what existed previously, but a rate that they believe is the rate that is all that can be accomplished at this moment without being discovered."*
posted by achrise at 8:48 AM on February 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


It's just week 4 of the new administration. They will assert control.
posted by My Dad


You keep saying some version of this, based on your experience as some sort of government employee if I recall an earlier comment you made. But you have not provided any basis for your belief that the power of the executive to suppress leaks or punish leakers is so total and complete or all-encompassing. I suggest that if the leakers are working for the NSA, CIA, FBI, NSC, or other intelligence agency that they have plenty of understanding of the risks they are taking, where the line is between a firing offense and a broken law, and a sense of patriotism or power that exceeds your own experience of government work. If they are working for the white house directly, they also know what they are risking. As I understand it, most of the leaks we've heard about would be very difficult to classify or prosecute as illegal. It is not illegal to talk to the press about your workplace unless you reveal classified or restricted information. So at most they risk losing a job or facing a congressional committee or perhaps the vile attentions of Trump supporters. The president's blustery threats are mostly bullshit in terms of his ability to do anything more than fire someone. And if you're working in the wheelhouse and sickened enough by what you're seeing to go to the effort to leak it in perfectly timed increments to major newspapers and networks, I suspect losing your job is not something you fear more than what you're seeing up close and personal.

Can they instill fear in peons of being fired or harassed? No doubt. Can they send leakers to jail or Guantanamo? Not in most cases, according to various lawyers I'm reading and listening to. Would someone motivated enough by patriotism to reveal treasonous behavior by the white house staff be deterred by the risk of losing her job? Would someone who is inside the loop enough -- read, a CIA agent or FBI agent -- to know who is being investigated for what be careless about tradecraft in leaking? Seems unlikely to me. And of course many leaks could be coming from the offices of congressional staffers acting as cutouts for the primary sources.

So where you see Trump's threats as having real muscle and likely to end the flow of leaks, to me they seem like desperate flailing and sticking fingertips in the cracks of bursting dams. If he really had the means to crack down and stop leaks with intimidation, he wouldn't be doing it on Twitter.
posted by spitbull at 8:48 AM on February 16, 2017 [48 favorites]


It's week 4 and they're no closer to figuring out how to assert control, let alone doing it

It's 11th dimensional chess, see. The first step to asserting control over your administration is to throw everything into utter chaos, cause a mutiny, fire some top advisors, and be too busy putting out fires to accomplish much.

That's when the real work gets started.
posted by dis_integration at 8:49 AM on February 16, 2017 [10 favorites]


What is this rawstory.com site I'm seeing links to? Never heard of it. Is it legit?

rawstory has been around for quite a while, but I think they're in the far-left wish-fullfillment-"news" bucket.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 8:49 AM on February 16, 2017 [6 favorites]


Rawstory tends to relink stories from other places, some more credible than others. It's very left-leaning and tabloid-y so I try to go to the original or find other corroboration before I post their links.
posted by emjaybee at 8:50 AM on February 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


rawstory is best understood as "legit lite." Some decent-ish pundits write for it — I think it used to be Amanda Marcotte's main job? — and it's not quite a usuncut-style gibberish factory, but it's much more about Riling Up The Base than it is about journalism.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 8:50 AM on February 16, 2017 [5 favorites]




We're still super fucked - the office of president is empty and every institution is under attack. But if any of them had any idea how to assume the roles whose titles they bear, how to get people to do things for them, how to do anything but strut around self importantly yelling at volume 11, then we'd all be mega-fucked with sprinkles on.
posted by Artw at 8:52 AM on February 16, 2017 [14 favorites]


He Will Die in Jail, Intelligence Community ready to go nuclear source says.
I saw this earlier, but wasn't sure if Schindler or XXCommittee were considered legit. He writes for the NY Observer. Any takes on his credibility?
posted by rocket at 8:52 AM on February 16, 2017


As I understand it, most of the leaks we've heard about would be very difficult to classify or prosecute as illegal. It is not illegal to talk to the press about your workplace unless you reveal classified or restricted information.

I agree with much of what you said, but most of the important leaks are coming from a counter intelligence operation that is surely classified and restricted.
posted by diogenes at 8:53 AM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


Any takes on his credibility?

The consensus seems to be that he has legit connections, but he's a problematic source. View with caution.
posted by diogenes at 8:54 AM on February 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


Even if they manage to stop some of the leaks from the American IC, I'm 100% positive the most damaging and unpleasant stuff has already been shared with our trusted European intelligence allies, who will be quite happy to release it or otherwise use it in defense of their US colleagues.

You think that 50+ years of hand-in-glove collaboration will be "trumped" by this man-baby and his passel of incompetents? Please.
posted by Chrischris at 8:54 AM on February 16, 2017 [15 favorites]


if any of them had any idea how to assume the roles whose titles they bear, how to get people to do things for them

Just this, artw. Imagine if Trump had taken office with smooth talk of healing the divides, with a few token outreach efforts to liberals and moderates, with a concerted effort to start a major piece of infrastructure spending legislation, with boringly competent picks for a few major jobs ... they could have had everything they wanted and more were they better at being fucking evil.
posted by spitbull at 8:55 AM on February 16, 2017 [30 favorites]


But if any of them had any idea how to assume the roles whose titles they bear, how to get people to do things for them, how to do anything but strut around self importantly yelling at volume 11

trump is basically princess unikitty but yelling "president president president" instead of "business"
posted by murphy slaw at 8:55 AM on February 16, 2017 [6 favorites]


I don't know why anyone is taking the Canadian dude who told MeFites protesting Trump's inauguration that they were being immature for not "respecting" him seriously.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:57 AM on February 16, 2017 [10 favorites]




I read that as 'we've got a great excuse now to fire and/or force out a lot of civil servants and/or Democrats and/or prior appointees who were asked to stay, and hand-in-hand with that we have a great excuse to "investigate" a lot of people and see if they're loyal to Trump.'

Trump isn't capable of strategizing, some people around him may be able to at certain levels, but he cannot. He does not play politics.

He's pissed because people are leaking and that's making him look weak. He wants to punish them. He isn't using it as cover for something else; he literally wants revenge.

He's still talking about his votes everytime he gets five minutes. He's egotistical.
posted by mayonnaises at 8:57 AM on February 16, 2017 [9 favorites]


Report: Russia tells state media to cut back on positive Trump coverage

Moscow is instructing Russian state media to reduce their favorable coverage of President Trump, Bloomberg reported on Thursday.

Three people familiar with the matter told the news source that the order echoes growing concerns from top Russian officials that the Trump administration is not going to be as pro-Russian as they initially thought.


(we're all gonna die)
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:57 AM on February 16, 2017 [15 favorites]


So where you see Trump's threats as having real muscle and likely to end the flow of leaks, to me they seem like desperate flailing and sticking fingertips in the cracks of bursting dams. If he really had the means to crack down and stop leaks with intimidation, he wouldn't be doing it on Twitter.

Even if he has real muscle he is limited in his reach. I've said it before and will again for good measure, he has no control over agencies outside of the US. They are on this case big time, not just in a lets team together US buds way but in a way that is looking out for their own interests because the US state is on it's way to turning into a rogue state in the geo-political context.
Even if Trump manages to get the US IC to shut-up it's not going to stop the 'leaks' about Trump.

edited: Didn't preview, what chrisChris said as well.
posted by Jalliah at 8:59 AM on February 16, 2017 [10 favorites]


It seems to me that the fascist impulse is antithetical to actual competence. Anything that cannot be achieved by brute force and intimidation will not be achieved. Unfortunately, brute force and intimidation are sufficient to cause a colossal amount of pain and suffering in the world, which is the only goal the fascists really care to achieve.
posted by tobascodagama at 8:59 AM on February 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


is putin starting to think that for all the advantages to russia of having inside men and chaos in washington, maybe giving a narcissistic idiot the US military and a bunch of nukes wasn't so hot after all?
posted by murphy slaw at 8:59 AM on February 16, 2017 [6 favorites]


Acosta is a gay Hispanic man who served on the NLRB and was a top attorney in the civil rights division at DOJ (under GWB, but still), so based on resume, at least, this is a big step up from Pudzer.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:00 AM on February 16, 2017 [16 favorites]


(we're all gonna die)

Yes, but it's a nailbiter to see whether it'll be Russia, high-risk death panels, or waves of marauding gun-totin' patriots.

It's the 2017 version of screw/marry/kill.
posted by mochapickle at 9:02 AM on February 16, 2017 [28 favorites]


I mean, who knows, at this point, what Trump means when he uses words.

We (meaning, the remaining sane people in this increasingly batshit-crazy country) try to use words as tools to articulate our own opinions, understandings and arguments about the way the world is and the way it should be, and how to get from the one to the other.

President Trump uses words as tools to get what he wants. He's not trying to get *at* a deeper understanding of the world as it is; nor is he even particularly trying to make a case for how he thinks the world should be. He doesn't really care if we agree with him or not, as long as we either comply, look away or are crushed / rendered powerless.

President Trump uses words as tools to get what he wants. Whether the words are "true" or "fake" or "lies" or simply "bullshit" doesn't enter into the equation; words are weapons for him, and they are successful not if they correspond to an external objective and shared reality* nor even if they succeed in convincing others to his cause (although that is a nice bonus).

He just wants people to do the things that he wants done. His speech-acts are successful, in his mind, if and only if that happens.

*yes, there are all kinds of philosophical issues here.
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:02 AM on February 16, 2017 [48 favorites]


Just this, artw. Imagine if Trump had taken office with smooth talk of healing the divides, with a few token outreach efforts to liberals and moderates, with a concerted effort to start a major piece of infrastructure spending legislation, with boringly competent picks for a few major jobs ... they could have had everything they wanted and more were they better at being fucking evil.

Drinking liberal tears was priority one. Turns out liberal tears are not great sustenance
posted by srboisvert at 9:02 AM on February 16, 2017 [26 favorites]


Acosta seems pretty legit, have we switched timelines all of a sudden?
posted by OHenryPacey at 9:03 AM on February 16, 2017 [12 favorites]


as with every nomination in this administration, i wonder where Acosta's name came from. it seems transparently obvious that trump is just nominating whoever's name was shouted loudest in the oval office.
posted by murphy slaw at 9:04 AM on February 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


It's week 4 and they're no closer to figuring out how to assert control, let alone doing it.

You know who else started off having trouble controlling the national-security apparatus they inherited?
posted by acb at 9:04 AM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


It seems to me that the fascist impulse is antithetical to actual competence

And yet if Hitler hadn't turned on the Soviet Union, they would have won last time.

I suspect competence is valuable because it allows you to get things done without total control. But that doesn't mean it's necessary if you already have total control and a monopoly on violence.

Let's not test that theory again.
posted by schadenfrau at 9:04 AM on February 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


Acosta seems pretty legit, have we switched timelines all of a sudden?

When you fail to get a nominee confirmed, you basically put up whoever the Senate tells you will work out. I imagine Trump had exactly 0 to do with this pick.
posted by dis_integration at 9:05 AM on February 16, 2017 [19 favorites]


You know who else started off having trouble controlling the national-security apparatus they inherited?

Can't tell if you mean Hitler or JFK.
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:05 AM on February 16, 2017 [17 favorites]


You know who else started off having trouble controlling the national-security apparatus they inherited?

Every president since John Adams?
posted by Celsius1414 at 9:05 AM on February 16, 2017 [7 favorites]


> (we're all gonna die)

Yes, but it's a nailbiter to see whether it'll be Russia, high-risk death panels, or waves of marauding gun-totin' patriots.


Think of it as being like an old Atari 2600 game. There is no way to win. The game just gets harder and faster and harder and faster until you eventually die. Our goal is to live long enough to die to the really difficult enemies, stuff like climate change, instead of stupidly dying to the early stupid enemies, things like mobbed-up landlords armed with nuclear weapons.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:07 AM on February 16, 2017 [56 favorites]


> Acosta seems pretty legit, have we switched timelines all of a sudden?
posted by OHenryPacey at 9:03 AM on February 16


America's abusive spouse is trying to gaslight us into thinking he's decent.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:08 AM on February 16, 2017 [8 favorites]


Think of it as being like an old Atari 2600 game. There is no way to win. The game just gets harder and faster and harder and faster until you eventually die. Our goal is to live long enough to die to the really difficult enemies, stuff like climate change, instead of stupidly dying to the early stupid enemies, things like mobbed-up landlords armed with nuclear weapons.

thanks for reminding me how existentially depressing Missile Command is
posted by murphy slaw at 9:08 AM on February 16, 2017 [21 favorites]


WTF? _rump plans to have a Wall Street friend of Bannon's "review" the intelligence agencies? This sounds seriously scary and fucked up to me.


Fucked up yes. Scary? Nope.

Appointing some with no experience with government bureaucracy is the best way to fail at everything having to do with government bureaucracy.

As we are learning every single day.
posted by srboisvert at 9:08 AM on February 16, 2017 [14 favorites]


When you fail to get a nominee confirmed, you basically put up whoever the Senate tells you will work out. I imagine Trump had exactly 0 to do with this pick.

It's possible that whoever picked him was able to take advantage of Trump being all distracted and paranoid about leaks and just generally being overwhelmed with the amount of stuff going on. He doesn't seem like a guy that's super capable of functioning clearly in a multiple pressure point situation.
posted by Jalliah at 9:09 AM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


I'm not saying that they could never go 100% dictatorship, but it's an all-in decision. You can't go back, there's no return to normal if it doesn't work...what happens when you smash everything and California, for example, doesn't go along with you and basically starts operating like an independent country? Do you send in troops?

If this happens, it happens all at once and the military has to go along, and there will be martial law.

California would be a nuclear power in every sense if it could just split off with what's in it. It controls the major Pacific data cables. It has the bulk of the West Coat's shipping capacity. It has Google and Facebook etc. This happens all at once or it doesn't happen at all.
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:09 AM on February 16, 2017




I saw this earlier, but wasn't sure if Schindler or XXCommittee were considered legit. He writes for the NY Observer. Any takes on his credibility?

He's an anti-Russian paranoid who made his name calling Ed Snowden a traitor. He also sent pictures of his penis, which was soft, by the way, to women who didn't ask for them. My friends and I have made fun of him on Twitter for years, so I, for one, don't take him too seriously.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 9:11 AM on February 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


Poor corporations! Their feelings have been hurt.

We must have empathy.
posted by Artw at 9:12 AM on February 16, 2017


I've got 89 new comments to get through, but I wanted to say that Reddit AMA's are not useless. Most of them are interesting and for the most part they genuinely answer the questions as long as 100 people don't ask the same damn one.

It's also useful that the AMA's live in eternity to reference. Unlike these TeleTown halls where you can barely remember a whole statement 5 minutes later.

/derail
posted by yoga at 9:12 AM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


And of course many leaks could be coming from the offices of congressional staffers acting as cutouts for the primary sources.

I've really been leaning towards this explanation since rhizome mentioned it upthread. Either as cutouts, or just leaking intelligence that has been presented to the Senate investigation. This article from yesterday points to them having intel already:
“We’ve already started this process. We’re already starting to review the raw intelligence. We are well down this path,” Senator Mark Warner of Virginia told reporters at the Capitol building. That includes a “very productive” meeting the committee held yesterday to go over new materials, Warner said.
Democratic Senators trying to push Republicans with these leaks or Republicans trying to tank Trump's popularity to give themselves cover and political capital would look like what we're seeing, too.
posted by jason_steakums at 9:14 AM on February 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


Anyone want to take an over/under on Simon Legree being the pick for Labor Sec?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:15 AM on February 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


California would be a nuclear power in every sense

Except for the literal one.

I don't know if they have ICBM silos in California, though even if they do, they're centrally controlled from the Executive Branch, and the entire system is designed to be very difficult, if not impossible, to hotwire.
posted by acb at 9:15 AM on February 16, 2017


However you feel about them, the leaks are crimes

Are they? They may be violating department rules and policies which will get you fired but are they prosecutable crimes?
posted by JackFlash at 9:16 AM on February 16, 2017


I saw this earlier, but wasn't sure if Schindler or XXCommittee were considered legit. He writes for the NY Observer. Any takes on his credibility?

He's an entertaining self-promoter who likes to use macho jargon. The dick picks are disturbing...
posted by My Dad at 9:17 AM on February 16, 2017


Speculation: Marco Rubio had dinner with Trump last night...maybe Acosta's name got floated then?
posted by drlith at 9:17 AM on February 16, 2017 [10 favorites]


To paraphrase a great comment from above:

>What would happen to [someone] who leaked?

In a just world, a pardon and the Presidential Medal of Freedom.

posted by flatluigi at 9:20 AM on February 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


Yes, but he's going to be more reviled than even Nixon, and more inept than--well, just about everybody. So there's that!

If "protecting brand Trump" was #1 he COULD have done things differently.

He could have knocked back most of the Trump-branded crap to a few that there would be no way in HELL of getting nailed for self-dealing and still been able to challenge the clause of the Constitution. Heck, wrapped that up in "this is our system of laws, a challenge and controversy must exist" AND dragged out quotes about the oil company dealings with GW Bush while G HW Bush about how buying into the GW Bush company was due to his fathers position in government. He could have pulled a Ross Perot with some chart-love of how the wealth of Congresspeople increases at rates better than investment averages.

He could have made "less" "swampy" choices - and then been able to use his campaign mode/the BULLY pulpit to complain about how the swamp-dwellers were not approving his swamp-free choices. His supporters like Catherine Austin Fitts (ok seems like she's a supporter due to her own concerns over the system) would have had a field day.

He COULD have expanded on the 'America does bad stuff too' with "To make America great again there needs to be a better marketing of what America stands for. America needs to BE the good nation we claim we are so that things like (whatever nasty foreign entanglements you want to choose as part of the list) " Given he NEVER held an office before he could have said "this was not my legacy......" and launched into his self-love about how he was the winningest winner who ever won and that gives him the mandate to then out-Regan Regan by delivering on making brand America #1 by action. And he'd be able to do that shrug of his when Congress said "nope". Heck he'd been able to go on about how he's an awesome marketer and therefore ......

His window to fire all around him and say "I did not hire/surround myself with the best people - here's the new plan going forward" is closing or has closed.

He won't get the years that Nixon got to see what history is going to say about him. He *DOES* have the real-time commentary of the Internet however to see what is going to be said about him. And he doesn't appear to have the Nixon laugh-in/Elvis as narc 'sense of humor'. (If Spicer has a super soaker in his office - at least he's TRYING to suffer the comedy barbs with some form of grace....and seems to be the only one.)
posted by rough ashlar at 9:20 AM on February 16, 2017 [5 favorites]



Speculation: Marco Rubio had dinner with Trump last night...maybe Acosta's name got floated then?

Or it was floated earlier in the day with the knowledge that Rubio was going to work at closing the deal at dinner.
posted by Jalliah at 9:20 AM on February 16, 2017


Never mind nuclear weapons -- where the fuck are you going to get your avocados? You think Mexico is going to sell East Fasciststan avocados?
posted by Celsius1414 at 9:22 AM on February 16, 2017 [12 favorites]


One of the things about fascism and competence: you take your classic...well, let's just call them authoritarian bad guys like Pinochet, Stalin, Mussolini, Hitler and, importantly, their immediate supporters, and you notice that the majority of them have military experience, paramilitary experience or experience founding a party or a movement. Some of them, like Stalin, probably had "take your enemies down in the cellar and kill them" experience (there's harrowing stuff about the early Soviet strongmen, particularly the security service guys). They had actual, material experience dealing with enemies who could have stopped them, and often actual experience dealing with enemies who could have killed them.

The new model fascists - Trump, Bannon, Thiel, De Vos, Yiannopoulos, etc - have never faced enemies who could actually injure them or even, really, stop them from doing whatever they liked. They've had a walkover all their lives because of wealth and connections, being white people, being white men, etc. On one hand, this means that their will to evil is unchecked by, like, normal human experiences. On the other, it means that when they are faced with genuinely countervailing powers - whether on the left or the right - they don't know how to handle things. They look at Stalin, for instance, and see him finishing off his enemies through lies and show trials and state violence, and they think that all he did was say to an underling, "let's have some show trials now, hooray", so they try that method and it doesn't work.

Things would be much, much worse if these people had been conscripted into the military or faced political repression in their youth.
posted by Frowner at 9:23 AM on February 16, 2017 [86 favorites]


one nice outcome of this whole fiasco is that there will no longer be any disagreement between historians about who was the worst president of all time
posted by murphy slaw at 9:23 AM on February 16, 2017 [73 favorites]


Except for the literal one.

Oh come on. California has the Silicon Valley. Elon Musk will start up The Nuclear Weapon Company, or David Karp will start up Weapn to quickly innovate destructive solutions.
posted by Talez at 9:23 AM on February 16, 2017 [13 favorites]


> California would be a nuclear power in every sense if it could just split off with what's in it. It controls the major Pacific data cables. It has the bulk of the West Coat's shipping capacity. It has Google and Facebook etc. This happens all at once or it doesn't happen at all.

In the final analysis, the plausibility of this scenario comes down to who the military is loyal to. Do the sailors on San Diego-based ships decide to serve California or the former U.S.? Who does the California National Guard fight for? If Bannon gives the order to nuke Los Angeles and San Francisco, do submarine and ICBM crews obey?

I think California should go full tax revolt yesterday. But I don't think we should do anything that can be mistaken for a formal declaration of independence. If we have to start running our own affairs, the least-bad way to do it is through angling for something like a Taiwan scenario, where we operate independently of the rump U.S. while maintaining a diligent ambiguity about our actual status. I honestly think that instead of a #calexit scenario, we should instead act as if Sacramento were the capital of the United States, as if Jerry Brown were President of the United States, and as if the rump U.S. was the rogue territory.

God, this is all so weird and paranoid. The 21st century is garbage.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:24 AM on February 16, 2017 [24 favorites]


God, this is all so weird and paranoid.

Not any more it isn't. Weird and Paranoid are 2015 words.
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:24 AM on February 16, 2017 [9 favorites]




when the going gets weird, the weird turn pro (or effectively secede from the union…)
posted by murphy slaw at 9:28 AM on February 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


Acosta is a gay Hispanic man

Is he gay? I can't find any indication of that.
posted by jedicus at 9:28 AM on February 16, 2017


Donald Trump and his group of alleged wife-beaters are all cut from the same cloth

Content warning for lots of misogynist violence.
posted by Pope Guilty at 9:28 AM on February 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


I had gotten really accustomed to being more weird and paranoid than my environment. Like my standard stance is that I'm bananas, that no one should listen to me ever, but that I've got a couple of interesting ideas that might be useful if someone saner and smarter than me could adapt them to reality. I am really, really, really not comfortable with being less weird and less paranoid than my surroundings.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:28 AM on February 16, 2017 [28 favorites]


A spokesman for Puzder said that he withdrew his nomination because "He was very tired of the abuse."

Is this what they refer to in public relations as "an unfortunate choice of words?"
posted by JackFlash at 9:30 AM on February 16, 2017 [68 favorites]


A little good news: GOP-led New Hampshire legislature just convincingly rejected Right to Work.

Spoiler alert: The GOP members looking out for their own self interest save the day.
posted by Talez at 9:30 AM on February 16, 2017




CBC News Alerts seems to think Acosta is gay.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:33 AM on February 16, 2017


Except for the literal one.

You don't need ICBMs to be a nuclear power. (In the sense of just 'joining the club.') You just need a plane with a cargo door. But we do have Vandenberg, if you really want to be fussy about it.

We also have Seal Beach, San Onofre (with plenty of waste on hand), Lawrence Livermore (responsible for nuke safety), JPL, etc. C'mon. We're way worse than Iran.
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:33 AM on February 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


Spoiler alert: The GOP members looking out for their own self interest save the day.

SEE AYN RAND WAS RIGHT
posted by murphy slaw at 9:35 AM on February 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


From that Ginni Thomas email: “I see the left has Daily Action @YourDailyAction and their Facebook likes are up to 61K,” she continued."

63.5k now... plus one from me! Thanks Ginni Thomas, that's a useful service to know about!
posted by OnceUponATime at 9:36 AM on February 16, 2017 [6 favorites]




Never mind nuclear weapons -- where the fuck are you going to get your avocados? You think Mexico is going to sell East Fasciststan avocados?

Who wants to post the FPP about growing hydroponic avocados in your basement? You know, just in case.
posted by tobascodagama at 9:39 AM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


The new model fascists - Trump, Bannon, Thiel, De Vos, Yiannopoulos, etc - have never faced enemies who could actually injure them or even, really, stop them from doing whatever they liked.

I've been thinking about this since the Putin/Russia connections came out. Trump (and cronies) are like 10 year-old playground bullies who've always gotten away with shoving around smaller kids and had their daddies bail them out of the principal's office but suffer from delusions that they're actually Pablo freakin' Ecobar.

So the connections with Putin freaked me out, because when you're a pants-shitting diaper baby and you throw in with an actual strong man for the caché and reflected strength, you may think you'll come out on top, but you're really just going to end up as fucked as everyone else he steamrolls. I don't mind Trump getting steamrolled but I worry about the collateral damage.
posted by Squeak Attack at 9:41 AM on February 16, 2017 [11 favorites]


Who wants to post the FPP about growing hydroponic avocados in your basement? You know, just in case.

oh yeah, and we have all the good weed too. suck it, america!
posted by murphy slaw at 9:42 AM on February 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


You Can't Tip a Buick, I also felt like I was going full Crazy Person when I started thinking seriously about how safe California would be in a revolt against Trump scenario, and found myself thinking, "I sure hope Jerry Brown has had some serious conversations with the California National Guard and people at the military bases about what happens if/when the Feds get sent in because Trump pitches a shitfit about our sanctuary cities or California otherwise going "no, fuck you" to some edict of Trump's. I've definitely already been keeping mental lists of which law enforcement is comparatively "safe" or "trustworthy." CBP and motherfucking ICE are not on that list.

I'm not a proponent of Calexit, but at this point, I think it's only prudent to consider California's best options in our new national nightmare.
posted by yasaman at 9:42 AM on February 16, 2017 [13 favorites]


one nice outcome of this whole fiasco is that there will no longer be any disagreement between historians about who was the worst president of all time

On the one hand, there is now a unified answer to "who is the most hated person on the planet" right now. On the other hand it unfortunately seems to be the case that the combined focused power of most of the worlds hate does not seem sufficient to make someone spontaneously combust.
posted by Artw at 9:43 AM on February 16, 2017 [9 favorites]


Please don't abandon the rest of us, California.
posted by INFJ at 9:44 AM on February 16, 2017 [22 favorites]


At this point I think the productive and successful non-Trumpy states really do have to think in terms of self reliance and deflecting the negative effects of a hostile administration.
posted by Artw at 9:44 AM on February 16, 2017 [10 favorites]


On the other hand it unfortunately seems to be the case that the combined focused power of most of the worlds hate does not seem sufficient to make someone spontaneously combust.

I've always suspected that eye lasers don't work, but now we know for sure.
posted by OverlappingElvis at 9:44 AM on February 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


However you feel about them, the leaks are crimes

Not my understanding, in many cases. Toobin got into this on CNN yesterday. It's very hard to prosecute leaks as crimes absent direct and restricted knowledge of classified information.

Note that leaks have brought us many huge political scandals in recent yesrs. Surprisingly few leakers have been charged or convicted of a crime over decades. Most that have directly released classified documents in their chain of control.
posted by spitbull at 9:45 AM on February 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


> Three people familiar with the matter told the news source that the order echoes growing concerns from top Russian officials that the Trump administration is not going to be as pro-Russian as they initially thought.

"The unpredictable lunatic we installed in office is unpredictable!"
posted by The Card Cheat at 9:45 AM on February 16, 2017 [10 favorites]


In /r/the_donald a contingent is obsessed with hunting pedophiles, which they see everywhere.
I'm sure I don't have to remind everyone of this, but this type of thing is projection pretty much 100% of the time. Make of that what you will . . .


Going out stalking and facepunching pedophiles is socially acceptable. And, if you can slap the label of 'pedo' on someone its hard to get rid of AND creates social problems for the 'pedo'.

So if you want to 'destroy' someone - have 'em be claimed to be a 'pedo'.

(At the point where someone says 100% of the time is it most likely wrong.)
posted by rough ashlar at 9:45 AM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]



And while all this is happening Russia appears to be doing something. I don't know a whole lot about this area but have been following, mostly Finnish people, on twitter who track Russian military movements and info about what is going on in Ukraine.

Petri Mäkelä
#Russia is preparing to mobilize a full army right next to #Ukraine. Western MD is already mobilized.

Aki Heikkinen
Comms for corps deployed in Russian southern military district, out from Stavropol. 49th Army signal corps.

More info can be found in their feeds and comments.
posted by Jalliah at 9:45 AM on February 16, 2017 [9 favorites]


Pew joins Gallup with tanked Trump approval ratings. And is even in the 30s: 39 - 56 (approval/disapproval).
posted by chris24 at 9:46 AM on February 16, 2017 [8 favorites]


oh come on donald. you can't even hit -20 net approval. sad!
posted by murphy slaw at 9:47 AM on February 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


Well, I think we know for sure the government isn't hiding UFOs because there's no way on earth Trump could resist tweeting about them.
posted by kirkaracha at 9:48 AM on February 16, 2017 [30 favorites]


Looks like the Cheeto's press conference is about to start. YouTube link to livestream.
posted by lazaruslong at 9:48 AM on February 16, 2017


Pew joins Gallup with tanked Trump approval ratings. And is even in the 30s: 39 - 56 (approval/disapproval).

-17. Whoa mama.
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:49 AM on February 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


Can they instill fear in peons of being fired or harassed? No doubt. Can they send leakers to jail or Guantanamo? Not in most cases, according to various lawyers I'm reading and listening to. Would someone motivated enough by patriotism to reveal treasonous behavior by the white house staff be deterred by the risk of losing her job? Would someone who is inside the loop enough -- read, a CIA agent or FBI agent -- to know who is being investigated for what be careless about tradecraft in leaking? Seems unlikely to me.

I agree and it seems to me that the most they can really accomplish is coming into an office and managing to stop new information gathering and more overt taking out of information. Actually making it stop, finding people who leaked in the past, when the whole business of these people is spying and subterfuge? Come on.

I have worked at dysfunctional companies where someone came in to supposedly straighten shit out. The reality is that the actions and culture of an organization are something you steer like the QEII, at best. In many cases people overtly just went on doing whatever they wanted they way they always had because they knew the structures and actual limits that the people who could really see what they were doing - their day to day coworkers - would effectively impose. And that was a shitty little tech consulting firm. An intelligence operation that Congress has by and large let do whatever the fuck they want for the last decade+? I'm not sure I believe we could full-on close these agencies in less than a generation even if there was unified political will. A single person and his hirelings doing oversight?

Shit, I wouldn't be surprised of one of these orgs ginned up a false external penetration and pinned it on some patsy. Oh look, all those leaks came from this unrelated person, oops! Some rich asshole from outside is going to be able to show that it's faked up? Please.
posted by phearlez at 9:49 AM on February 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


Please don't abandon the rest of us, California.

We have our red counties too, but the entire West Coast should present a united front.
posted by Existential Dread at 9:51 AM on February 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


Well, I think we know for sure the government isn't hiding UFOs because there's no way on earth Trump could resist tweeting about them.

like the Majestic 12 would actually let donald in on the REAL TRUTH
posted by entropicamericana at 9:51 AM on February 16, 2017 [7 favorites]


Anyway always crucial to remember that by the time the executive is trying to shut down leaks and making leaking the issue and making threats against leakers they're already admitting there's something to cover up. Going to trial -- or even public congressional hearings -- over this is a huge risk.
posted by spitbull at 9:53 AM on February 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


like the Majestic 12 would actually let donald in on the REAL TRUTH

Trump desperately wants Bob Page's respect, no doubt.
posted by Pope Guilty at 9:54 AM on February 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


> Please don't abandon the rest of us, California.
posted by INFJ at 9:44 AM on February 16 [+] [!]


This is one reason why I favor a tax revolt or (god help us) a Taiwan scenario over #calexit. The government of California1 is the largest, strongest institutional base of support for the resistance; when we move against the government of the rump U.S., we have to conceptualize it as something less like "screw you guys we're out of here" and more like "we're the first out of the trenches."

1: Really, the governments of the West Coast states as a whole.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:54 AM on February 16, 2017 [17 favorites]


I think people should stop thinking about it as a single state seceding/independifying on its own and having one monolithic Trumpistan and one tiny Human-Rights-Taiwan. Instead think CA + OR + WA, plus maybe bits of northern ID and MT to secure the Columbia watershed. Or a West Coast bloc allying and merging with a New England or Upper Midwest bloc. So many (dystopian) possibilities these days.
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:55 AM on February 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


1: Really, the governments of the West Coast states as a whole.

Anything west of I-5 or CA-99.
posted by Talez at 9:56 AM on February 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


Pew joins Gallup with tanked Trump approval ratings.

Some more info from the full demographic table:
-90% of Republicans approve
-78% of white, non-hispanic, evangelicals approve
-91% of conservative/lean Republicans approve
-72% of moderate/libertarian/lean Republicans approve
-52% of those age 72-89 approve (only 28% of 18-36 approve)
-no education level approves more than disapproves
-white people approve 49% disapprove 46%
posted by melissasaurus at 9:56 AM on February 16, 2017 [16 favorites]


Um, did they just announce Trump as the president "from" the United States?

And yes, it's Acosta.
posted by prefpara at 9:56 AM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


FYI, Obama was never below 41% approval on Pew or 40% on Gallup.
posted by chris24 at 9:56 AM on February 16, 2017 [13 favorites]


Hey everyone, Pat Toomey's doing a tele-townhall (lol of course) today. I'm going to be in a meeting, but it should be good for a laugh if you've got some free time.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:56 AM on February 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


okay, I got to stop thinking about this now. It is really, really surreal to walk through a Caltrain terminal while thinking about troop mobilizations. Also, it all makes me want to cry.

Fuck everyone who helped put Bannon into power. Fuck every cable news network. Fuck the NYT. Fuck Comey. Fuck the rural yahoos who are trying to Khmer Rouge up my damn country.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:57 AM on February 16, 2017 [5 favorites]





Some more info from the full demographic table:


AKA My Enemies List
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:57 AM on February 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


Apparently, the Sec. of Labor announcement was just the prelude.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:57 AM on February 16, 2017


Gross to me that Pence / Bannon / Preibus et al are front row seats at a press conference....isn't this a press conference? Does he need his merry band of assholes right up front for any actual reason?
posted by lazaruslong at 9:58 AM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


-white people approve 49% disapprove 46%

Somebody on Twitter was pointing out that this means one in every two white people approves of Trump. that's terrifying.
posted by Pope Guilty at 9:58 AM on February 16, 2017 [19 favorites]


speaking as a white guy, i am so fucking sick of white guys
posted by murphy slaw at 9:58 AM on February 16, 2017 [102 favorites]


Trump has started his press conference, confirms Acosta will be nominee for Labor, mentions Mulvaney being confirmed, then stresses unity in the Republican party. Gonna speak and then actually take questions.
posted by DynamiteToast at 9:59 AM on February 16, 2017


Aside from being a Conservative, any huge issues with Acosta?
posted by drezdn at 9:59 AM on February 16, 2017


He's done more than any president in history. Rasmussen says approval is at 55% (so I guess that poll is not fake news). He's having tremendous success.

Vomit.
posted by prefpara at 9:59 AM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


He is now basically calling for the use of the government’s investigative machinery to be turned loose on them....

This is scary, but the US has been here before. Nixon tried to plug leaks in the same way, and failed miserably. On the other hand, the outcome could be different this time because surveillance is about 100 times cheaper than it was back then.
posted by Coventry at 9:59 AM on February 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


Just cited some Rasmussen poll and said his approval rating is at 55% and going up.
posted by lazaruslong at 10:00 AM on February 16, 2017


"Rasmussen has our approval rating at 55% and going up."
posted by kirkaracha at 10:00 AM on February 16, 2017



Trying to find more on exactly what Hailey said but it looks like US, lets just confuse everyone foreign policy is going strong.

AFP News

#BREAKING US 'absolutely' supports two-state solution: US ambassador to UN
posted by Jalliah at 10:00 AM on February 16, 2017 [7 favorites]




So it's a press conference to disparage the press.
posted by chris24 at 10:00 AM on February 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


-white people approve 49% disapprove 46%

Somebody on Twitter was pointing out that this means one in every two white people approves of Trump. that's terrifying.


Well, almost one in two, minus a few ounces of the prefrontal cortex.
posted by spitbull at 10:00 AM on February 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


Most of his remarks are an attack on the media. "Out of control."
posted by prefpara at 10:01 AM on February 16, 2017


Press conference isn't at all about Acosta. It's a rant about the dishonest press.
posted by mochapickle at 10:01 AM on February 16, 2017 [2 favorites]



Oh looks it's just a lets attack the press, press conference.
posted by Jalliah at 10:01 AM on February 16, 2017


This press conference is a fucking nightmare.
posted by OverlappingElvis at 10:01 AM on February 16, 2017 [7 favorites]


"He's done more than any president in history. " [FOR REALS?]
posted by notyou at 10:01 AM on February 16, 2017


The poll ratings are good news, but Jesus, I can't stop thinking about the fact that we now live in an America where a woman went to court to get a restraining order against her abuser, and the abuser calls ICE on her, and ICE FUCKING DETAINS HER AT THE FUCKING COURTHOUSE.

Let me repeat that.

DETAINS HER ON THE SIDEWALK OUTSIDE THE COURTHOUSE BASED ON A TIP FROM HER ABUSER.

I'm so fucking upset. It's already so hard for women in immigrant communities to reach out for help in domestic abuse situations -- all those cultural barriers, all that fear of offical America, all that uncertainty about immigration, all that work that immigrant and women's organizations have done to spread awareness of VAWA, and this woman was living at a shelter. They convince her to get a restraining order, and they drive her to the courthouse, and they go into the courthouse with her, and they get the protective order, and are on their way out, and it turns out ICE was in the courtroom and in the stairwells, watching and waiting for her.

Inevitably, it's gonna end up as SHE WAS A CRIMINAL, but just.
Last fall the undocumented immigrant filed her first of three police reports against her live-in boyfriend, whom she accused of punching, kicking and choking her, and of pulling her hair. A report from December alleged, according to Bernal, that after failing to stab her with a knife, the boyfriend threw the blade at her instead. He missed.
posted by joyceanmachine at 10:01 AM on February 16, 2017 [94 favorites]


Trump's Mirror is going strong.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 10:01 AM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


Trump press conference so far:

- Something about some guy named Acosta
- The main stream media sucks.
- It really sucks.
- It really really really sucks. The people get it.
- The media people lie, lie, lie.
- Did I mention that the media sucks?

Can't wait to see what happens next.
posted by vverse23 at 10:01 AM on February 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


I think people should stop thinking about it as a single state seceding/independifying on its own and having one monolithic Trumpistan and one tiny Human-Rights-Taiwan. Instead think CA + OR + WA, plus maybe bits of northern ID and MT to secure the Columbia watershed. Or a West Coast bloc allying and merging with a New England or Upper Midwest bloc. So many (dystopian) possibilities these days.

So something like this then

posted by snuffleupagus at 10:02 AM on February 16, 2017 [9 favorites]


Somebody on Twitter was pointing out that this means one in every two white people approves of Trump. that's terrifying.

Cool cool cool cool cool i'm never trusting white people ever again
posted by yasaman at 10:02 AM on February 16, 2017 [28 favorites]


"I inherited a mess at home and abroad."
posted by mochapickle at 10:02 AM on February 16, 2017


"I inherited a mess, A MESS; at home and abroad."
"Jobs are pouring overseas."
"Everything is a disaster; we'll take care of it all; I inherited a MESS."
posted by melissasaurus at 10:02 AM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


His conversations with foreign leaders were "far more productive than you would understand."
posted by prefpara at 10:03 AM on February 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


Do Pew and Rasmussen skew conservative? I've seen other polls where 45 has gotten much lower approval ratings.
posted by pxe2000 at 10:03 AM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


"ISIS has spread like cancer; another mess I inherited"
posted by melissasaurus at 10:04 AM on February 16, 2017


Christ almighty listen to this moron
posted by angrybear at 10:04 AM on February 16, 2017 [11 favorites]


Trump supporters will love this. Our glorious leader is talking to us directly!! Don't trust the lying press!!!
posted by Pendragon at 10:04 AM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


"The most troubled regions of the world, of which there are many."

"More productive than you would understand."

More productive than you, dude.
More productive than you.
posted by snuffleupagus at 10:04 AM on February 16, 2017 [9 favorites]


What's the thought process here? "If I list off a whole bunch of nothing, but make it a long enough list, and speak in word salad form so nobody can understand it, people will think I've done a lot?"
posted by zachlipton at 10:04 AM on February 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


"ISIS has spread like CANCER. Another MESS I inherited!" He's already tired of how much work this job is.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 10:04 AM on February 16, 2017 [14 favorites]


Most of his remarks are an attack on the media. "Out of control."

Well, he believes that the press should be under his control.
posted by zombieflanders at 10:05 AM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


Do Pew and Rasmussen skew conservative? I've seen other polls where 45 has gotten much lower approval ratings.

Rasmussen skews so hard conservative and then keeps skewing. It's basically a perpetual motion conservating-skewing engine.
posted by Rust Moranis at 10:05 AM on February 16, 2017 [6 favorites]


Or a West Coast bloc allying and merging with a New England or Upper Midwest bloc. So many (dystopian) possibilities these days.

So something like this then


At the rate things are going, something more like this.
posted by Celsius1414 at 10:05 AM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


I just shut off the feed. It feels like putting your street shoes back on after bowling. Yeah, it's that good.
posted by mochapickle at 10:05 AM on February 16, 2017 [31 favorites]


Trump: "you're a bunch of cucks, lying cucks, evil people. Any questions? Questions from the lying cucks?"
posted by dis_integration at 10:05 AM on February 16, 2017 [8 favorites]



This is Trump going okay, okay, everyone just STOP, I need you all to LISTEN TO ME while try this Presidenting thing again.
posted by Jalliah at 10:05 AM on February 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


Do Pew and Rasmussen skew conservative?

Rasmussen does and is basically a joke. Pew typically doesn't and is in line with Gallup. 39-56 vs 40-55.
posted by chris24 at 10:06 AM on February 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


"PEACE THROUGH STRENGTH".. i.. uh.. i read that in a book somewhere... what was it called? something with numbers in the title.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 10:06 AM on February 16, 2017 [13 favorites]


Somebody on Twitter was pointing out that this means one in every two white people approves of Trump. that's terrifying.

If you are a white person, ask the closest white person you can find "Do you approve of Trump?" If that person says "No", I have some bad news for you.
posted by Etrigan at 10:06 AM on February 16, 2017 [34 favorites]


Now he's talking about his 306 EVs. I just.
posted by prefpara at 10:07 AM on February 16, 2017 [16 favorites]



And he's talking about his electoral votes again.
posted by Jalliah at 10:07 AM on February 16, 2017


Also, did he just say that the "outdated" military equipment was... something he used? did his bone spurs have a mental slip?

... oh good.. 306 EV again.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 10:07 AM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


"This administration is running like a fine-tuned machine."
posted by prefpara at 10:08 AM on February 16, 2017 [6 favorites]


> So something like this then

posted by snuffleupagus at 10:02 AM on February 16 [1 favorite +] [!]


Something like that... but instead of a bear flag, it's the flag of the United States flying over California. All 50 stars. That's our flag. They can't have it.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 10:08 AM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


I can't help but look at this Accountability Ladder printout sitting on my desk. This Accountability Ladder that my corporation insists on bringing up at every possible opportunity and noticing that "blame others" and "excuses" are rungs very close to the bottom, and that we're being reminded nearly daily that we should be living at the top of this ladder, with rungs like "own it" and "get on with it".

And then I think that the majority of my coworkers voted for this guy and nobody seems to see any inconsistency.
posted by Sequence at 10:08 AM on February 16, 2017 [17 favorites]


are you fucking kidding me??
posted by angrybear at 10:08 AM on February 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


is he acting tired of winning yet
posted by Rust Moranis at 10:08 AM on February 16, 2017 [9 favorites]


He's still denying the reality of those two faithless electors from Texas. Good grief.
posted by Surely This at 10:09 AM on February 16, 2017 [3 favorites]




He doesn't look or sound the least bit happy. He's whining and defensive. During the campaign, he seemed to enjoy, to the extent he's capable of experiencing that emotion, the rallies and the crowds and the chants and everything. This is just straight up word salad with Jeb!'s low energy. Sad.

And now he's going through how many electoral votes he got again.
posted by zachlipton at 10:09 AM on February 16, 2017 [13 favorites]


He sounds exhausted. Or medicated. Or maybe it’s just his version of trying to sound presidential.
posted by Bloxworth Snout at 10:09 AM on February 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


The one completely fair point he is making is that a lot of the things he is doing that people are mad about are things he talked about throughout his campaign and should not be a surprise to anyone.

IDGAF, but just, while I am shitting on him endlessly, thought I'd note he does make one fair point.
posted by prefpara at 10:09 AM on February 16, 2017 [7 favorites]


Not only did he mention that he got "306 electoral vote" which is untrue, he claimed "I guess it's the biggest electoral college victory since Reagan. In fact it was less than every election except the two that W won.
posted by DynamiteToast at 10:09 AM on February 16, 2017 [15 favorites]


He's already tired of how much work this job is.

And it's not like he's even doing it. Imagine how he'd feel if he put the actual required effort and attention in.
posted by Artw at 10:10 AM on February 16, 2017 [9 favorites]


What is up with Trump and the electoral college bullshit? That is what he is focusing on?!
posted by kuatto at 10:10 AM on February 16, 2017


The one completely fair point he is making is that a lot of the things he is doing that people are mad about are things he talked about throughout his campaign and should not be a surprise to anyone.

Unsurprising shit things are still shit.

But yes, anyone who expected anything good to come of him is an idiot.
posted by Artw at 10:11 AM on February 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


"This administration is running like a fine-tuned machine."

Yeah, a screw.
posted by Celsius1414 at 10:11 AM on February 16, 2017 [12 favorites]


ha ha guys, remember the time that other president had a press conference like this?

me neither.
posted by murphy slaw at 10:11 AM on February 16, 2017 [11 favorites]


Where are these drugs that are cheaper than candy bars that he's talking about? (asking for a friend)
posted by melissasaurus at 10:12 AM on February 16, 2017 [67 favorites]


"Drugs are becoming cheaper than candy bars." I actually chuckled out loud at that one.
posted by vverse23 at 10:12 AM on February 16, 2017


He also claimed that he has accomplished more than any administration in the time since inauguration.

Also: Drugs are cheaper than candy bars.
posted by CoffeeHikeNapWine at 10:12 AM on February 16, 2017


"Drugs are becoming cheaper than candy bars". uh..
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 10:12 AM on February 16, 2017


The one completely fair point he is making is that a lot of the things he is doing that people are mad about are things he talked about throughout his campaign and should not be a surprise to anyone.


The one time he doesn't lie is the time everybody who voted, for or against, was counting on him lying.
posted by notyou at 10:13 AM on February 16, 2017 [4 favorites]



What is up with Trump and the electoral college bullshit? That is what he is focusing on?!

Not focusing on it. Just brought it up and now he is listing all of his vast accomplishments.

It's pretty much, I'm awesome and I'm going to just keep saying I'm awesome until you finally just listen and agree with me.

He's campaigning to the press.
posted by Jalliah at 10:13 AM on February 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


you can fine tune one of those machines that eviscerates fish but that doesn't mean you should bathe cats with it
posted by Rust Moranis at 10:13 AM on February 16, 2017 [10 favorites]


Not only did he mention that he got "306 electoral vote" which is untrue, he claimed "I guess it's the biggest electoral college victory since Reagan. In fact it was less than every election except the two that W won.

And Clinton. And Obama. In fact, out of the eight elections held since Reagan, he comes in sixth.
posted by zombieflanders at 10:13 AM on February 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


"Drugs are becoming cheaper than candy bars." I actually chuckled out loud at that one.

Trump only has experience buying one of those things.
posted by dinty_moore at 10:14 AM on February 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


lol.. 'extreme vetting' has been in place for years. this guy's an asshole.
posted by birdheist at 10:14 AM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


"That [the 9th] Circuit is in CHAOS; it's in TURMOIL"

No chaos! No chaos! You're in chaos!
posted by melissasaurus at 10:14 AM on February 16, 2017 [31 favorites]


He says there will be a new EO next week to "comprehensively" protect our border.
posted by prefpara at 10:14 AM on February 16, 2017


"Drugs are becoming cheaper than candy bars"

The question has never been more urgent...

Where is the President getting his drugs?
posted by MrVisible at 10:15 AM on February 16, 2017 [41 favorites]


you can fine tune one of those machines that eviscerates fish but that doesn't mean you should bathe cats with it

"Hi, is this the Latin department? Just one quick question..."
posted by Etrigan at 10:15 AM on February 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


what's that tv show or whatever where a rich person has to grocery shop for the first time

"how much is milk? eighty dollars?"
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:15 AM on February 16, 2017 [35 favorites]


I realize it's essentially a waste of a question, but if he does take questions from anybody other than sycophants, somebody should ask him why he lies about his election results. It's blatantly factually wrong I'd frankly like to see how he responds when called on it.

Now he's saying a new immigration executive order next week. He said that last week about this week too.
posted by zachlipton at 10:15 AM on February 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


Do Pew and Rasmussen skew conservative?

Rasmussen is a Republican push pollster. Their approval ratings polls are of what they call "likely voters", not the public at large. Their questions on issues are always worded in a way that biases conservative (stuff like "Do you favor closing the borders to terrorists?").
posted by dirigibleman at 10:15 AM on February 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


Where are these drugs that are cheaper than candy bars that he's talking about?

Most of the drugs he takes are "free" thanks to insurance, I assume.
posted by R a c h e l at 10:15 AM on February 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


> Also: Drugs are cheaper than candy bars.

I reject your dichotomy!

/gestures grandly toward the collection of edibles
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 10:15 AM on February 16, 2017 [28 favorites]


80% is just some number I heard. Also, 42 and 73s. Easy as 1-2-3.

But let me tell you folks, one really is a lonely number.

Very lonely, I can promise you that. Sad.
posted by snuffleupagus at 10:16 AM on February 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


Well maybe he means those super expensive imported Callebaut blocks for cooking - those are $70 a throw and you could probably get some drugs cheaper than that.
posted by Frowner at 10:16 AM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


Where is the President getting his drugs?

Dr. Harold Bornstein
posted by OverlappingElvis at 10:16 AM on February 16, 2017 [13 favorites]


"how much is milk? eighty dollars?"

I mean it's one banana Michael. How much could it cost? 10 dollars?
posted by dis_integration at 10:16 AM on February 16, 2017 [30 favorites]


Now he's saying a new immigration executive order next week. He said that last week about this week too.

We're also still waiting on "the tax."
posted by notyou at 10:17 AM on February 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


a fine-tuned machine

I suppose that's one way of describing a Fiat on blocks.
posted by spitbull at 10:17 AM on February 16, 2017 [3 favorites]



Holy shit. He just said that the people showing up at Townhalls and whatnot are not the Republican people that the Republicans represent. 'Wonder how they get there?"

Ergo: Only Republicans count.
posted by Jalliah at 10:17 AM on February 16, 2017 [50 favorites]


idle pointless thought.. does the title of this livestream: "President Trump Holds a Press Conference" seem like the title of a children's book to anyone but me?

"... bigly.."
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 10:17 AM on February 16, 2017 [9 favorites]




I'm furious? You inherited a mess? You're the mess. You inherited the Executive Branch after 8 years of one of the best Presidents in history and you fucked it up at once.
posted by thelonius at 10:18 AM on February 16, 2017 [29 favorites]


The candy bars are drugs, friends.
posted by Celsius1414 at 10:18 AM on February 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


It's hard to believe he's reading from notes. Unless William S. Burroughs is his speechwriter.
posted by uosuaq at 10:19 AM on February 16, 2017 [21 favorites]


Seems to be ending on Gorsuch. "He'll get there one way or the other."
posted by prefpara at 10:19 AM on February 16, 2017


He just said the entire world, except maybe one or two countries, is taking advantage of the US.

"For DECADES, folks. We're not going to let it happen anymore."

Someone should ask Rex Tillerson what he intends to do about this OUTRAGE.
posted by snuffleupagus at 10:19 AM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


Re Gorsuch: "He may not get the Democrat votes. But he'll get there one way or another, but I hope it's the old-fashioned way." ????
posted by melissasaurus at 10:19 AM on February 16, 2017 [6 favorites]


A Trump rally without a crowd is like The Big Bang Theory without a laugh track; it was already horrifying, but now it's sad and pathetic too.
posted by OverlappingElvis at 10:19 AM on February 16, 2017 [26 favorites]


Yikes. "We haven't even started the big work that starts early next week... some very big things that we'll be announcing..."

DREAD
posted by prefpara at 10:20 AM on February 16, 2017 [6 favorites]




He's saying he asked Flynn to resign.
posted by prefpara at 10:20 AM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


The notes: he holds them upside down, I bet. Facts, alternative.
posted by Namlit at 10:20 AM on February 16, 2017


Does the Supreme Court Overturn 80 Percent of Ninth Circuit Court Decisions?
WHAT'S TRUE
Among less than one tenth of one percent of circuit court decisions reviewed by the Supreme Court, about 80 percent of the Ninth Circuit Court's decisions were overturned.

WHAT'S FALSE
The Supreme Court neither reviewed nor overturned eighty percent of Ninth Circuit Court's decisions.
posted by zombieflanders at 10:21 AM on February 16, 2017 [25 favorites]


Russia is all fake news. What matters are these illegal leaks.
posted by prefpara at 10:21 AM on February 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


"This information is all classified"
"It is all fake news"
"Illegal giving out classified information"
"It was given out so much"
posted by melissasaurus at 10:21 AM on February 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


What's the thought process here? "If I list off a whole bunch of nothing, but make it a long enough list, and speak in word salad form so nobody can understand it, people will think I've done a lot?"

"This is for all the people who don't use twitter or read my tweets."
posted by INFJ at 10:22 AM on February 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


He just admitted he kept Pence in the dark for two weeks (because he didn't think Flynn did anything wrong).
posted by prefpara at 10:23 AM on February 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


For the record, 80% of 9th Circuit decisions are not overturned (see also here). 80% of 9th Circuit cases heard by the Supreme Court (a very much non-representative sample of cases, since the Supreme Court doesn't hear cases it doesn't think there's a reason to hear). A tiny tiny fraction of cases heard by the 9th Circuit are reversed, roughly 0.12%. The 9th Circuit is in third place when it comes to reversal rates, behind those covering some decidedly not liberal states.
posted by zachlipton at 10:23 AM on February 16, 2017 [11 favorites]


He's claiming that an example of leaks is when the transcript of his calls with Mexico and Australia that made him look bad were released. Doesn't their office release those? Those weren't leaks...
posted by DynamiteToast at 10:23 AM on February 16, 2017 [7 favorites]



He's talking about leaks (the Mexico call) and in doing so is totally confirming that the stuff being leaked is real. He's complaining that it should have been secret and not for the world to see, not that the actual content is wrong.
posted by Jalliah at 10:23 AM on February 16, 2017 [33 favorites]


Drugs are cheaper than candy bars.

To be fair, Trump probably only buys candy bars from hotel mini bars, so some drugs might be cheaper than candy bars.
posted by drezdn at 10:24 AM on February 16, 2017 [13 favorites]


The reporters are doing a good job asking tight questions. Now asking whether during his campaign, any member of the Trump team spoke to Russia. Trump is dodging.
posted by prefpara at 10:24 AM on February 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


Flynn didn't resign because of anything bad, but something something leaks press sad bad.

This is just nonsense.
posted by Artw at 10:24 AM on February 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


Nice to hear him explicitly acknowledge he's only the President of Republicans.

The 65 million Americans who didn't vote for him can fuck thenselves.

We knew that already, but now we have it on tape.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:24 AM on February 16, 2017 [41 favorites]


Who's this guy he doesn't think he met?
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 10:25 AM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]



Drugs are cheaper than candy bars.

I'm clearly getting either my drugs or my candy bars from the wrong place.
posted by soren_lorensen at 10:25 AM on February 16, 2017 [37 favorites]


He's making claims about his business ("I have no loans in Russia" etc.) that we have no way of confirming.
posted by prefpara at 10:25 AM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]



He just said I own nothing in Russia, I owe no money to Russia I have no deals in Russia.
posted by Jalliah at 10:26 AM on February 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


He's fired up and his sniff is back. It went away for a while, didn't it?
posted by bluecore at 10:26 AM on February 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


The 65 million 250 million Americans who didn't vote for him can fuck thenselves.
posted by Mayor West at 10:26 AM on February 16, 2017 [25 favorites]


He just said I own nothing in Russia, I owe no money to Russia I have no deals in Russia.

Didn't his son Eric say otherwise?
posted by Pope Guilty at 10:27 AM on February 16, 2017 [7 favorites]


Enact a law that all candy bars include drugs. Solves the problem.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 10:27 AM on February 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


It takes him 20 minutes to find his groove. We saw that in the debates, too.
posted by notyou at 10:27 AM on February 16, 2017


The Times should totally print an edition with "The Failing New York Times" at the top.
posted by uosuaq at 10:27 AM on February 16, 2017 [13 favorites]


He just said I own nothing in Russia, I owe no money to Russia I have no deals in Russia.

Yes, but what investment does Russia have in you here in the US?
posted by chris24 at 10:27 AM on February 16, 2017 [8 favorites]


I'm clearly getting either my drugs or my candy bars from the wrong place.

Right? Either those are some bomb ass candy bars or some seriously cheap drugs, and either way I am really missing out.
posted by yasaman at 10:27 AM on February 16, 2017 [6 favorites]


He's complaining that he never gets phone calls from the media.
posted by prefpara at 10:27 AM on February 16, 2017


He is not a crook, you see.
posted by feloniousmonk at 10:27 AM on February 16, 2017 [11 favorites]


this "press conference" is pretty much the only evidence required for a 25th amendment claim, right?
posted by murphy slaw at 10:28 AM on February 16, 2017 [41 favorites]


Christ, what a whiner. Conservatives are a thin skinned perpetually agreived complaining bunch at the best of times, but this is off the scale. It's like listening to someone at an old folks home complaining about how Those People are moving the towels and probably stealing things.
posted by Artw at 10:28 AM on February 16, 2017 [38 favorites]


I'm so curious how he decides when he's finished answering a question
posted by theodolite at 10:28 AM on February 16, 2017 [34 favorites]


I think the key is that Trump has no idea how much a candy bar costs any more than he has an idea what drugs cost. He has no clue what money means to most people. If it doesn't cost several hundred thousand dollars at least, it's all basically the same price.
posted by Sequence at 10:28 AM on February 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


Someone is factchecking live his claim re the electoral margin. Why should Americans trust you. "I was given that information." Incredible!
posted by prefpara at 10:29 AM on February 16, 2017 [12 favorites]


Wow. Somebody's calling him out for lying about electoral votes. Hot damn. "I was just given that information' is his latest excuse for that.

Weirdly, it seems like Trump is calling on reporters at random and doesn't know who he's calling on, so who knows what we'll get.
posted by zachlipton at 10:29 AM on February 16, 2017 [17 favorites]



Press just called him out on the electoral college lie and he was all 'Well I dunno, I was just given the information,' deflect deflect 'but you can at least say it was a substantial win right?'
posted by Jalliah at 10:30 AM on February 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


@joshtpm
We didn't know that Trump would be a key ally in preventing people from normalizing Trump.
posted by chris24 at 10:30 AM on February 16, 2017 [113 favorites]


I honest to god can't believe anyone was stupid enough to vote for this motherfucker
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:30 AM on February 16, 2017 [135 favorites]


What's the thought process here?

He's still talking to his voters, rather than pivoting to talk to the people who can help him implement his agenda. Talking to his voters is pleasurable, negotiating with the establishment who despise him is painful and tedious. Not much of a thought process.
posted by Coventry at 10:31 AM on February 16, 2017 [7 favorites]


this "press conference" is pretty much the only evidence required for a 25th amendment claim, right?

Is it possible for the Cabinet to have a quorum with only nine approved Secretaries?
posted by Etrigan at 10:31 AM on February 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


Has anyone told Trump that his win margin is actually one of the lowest ever?
posted by drezdn at 10:31 AM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


He just said that he concluded that Flynn didn't do anything wrong in part through "watching various programs and reading various articles."

!!!
posted by prefpara at 10:32 AM on February 16, 2017 [57 favorites]


Complains about content for foreign calls "leaked".

The press office has read outs of every call. Well, except for Russia.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:32 AM on February 16, 2017 [12 favorites]


Last night I dreamed I had to drive Trump somewhere, and the whole time he kept talking about in how much of a landslide he won the election, the crowds at his rallies are so yuge, no one has ever been a more popular or awesome president in history etc. until I finally told him to shut up and stop campaigning already. The rest of the ride was mercifully silent.

Then I dreamed of beautiful plantlike aliens that spoke in music and lived in elaborate subterranean cities lit by the unearthly glow of phosphorescent fungus, which is more my dreamtime comfort zone.
posted by byanyothername at 10:32 AM on February 16, 2017 [14 favorites]


He’s bad enough at staying on topic and speaking in complete sentences when he's reading from a script, but when he’s answering questions it’s incomprehensible.
posted by Bloxworth Snout at 10:32 AM on February 16, 2017


He keeps saying he needs to get his people in and then cites Comey as one of "his people" --- in case it wasn't clear to everyone before.
posted by melissasaurus at 10:32 AM on February 16, 2017 [45 favorites]


His rant about reporters not calling him personally for comment is so weird. He has a press office. Which is who you ask questions to. A press office that is notorious for not returning calls. I think he's still operating in the mode where he pretended to be his own publicist and honestly believes the press is being unfair unless he's somehow personally asked for comment.
posted by zachlipton at 10:32 AM on February 16, 2017 [12 favorites]


Yep, feel free to submit a question, citizen. But the only ones they'll answer are prescreened softballs from right wing radio or MAGA cops, or school kids asking about the congressman's new puppy.

Happiness is mandatory!
posted by Gelatin at 10:32 AM on February 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


"Well the leaks are real. The leaks are absolutely real." Wow.
posted by prefpara at 10:34 AM on February 16, 2017 [14 favorites]


To his credit, he isn't just calling on breitbart and fox news. At least that's nice.
posted by DynamiteToast at 10:34 AM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


"The leaks are real, but the news is fake." whoaa
posted by theodolite at 10:34 AM on February 16, 2017 [11 favorites]



The leaks are real but the news is fake.

Yes. He just said that.
posted by Jalliah at 10:34 AM on February 16, 2017 [27 favorites]


... the leaks are real.. the news is fake...
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 10:34 AM on February 16, 2017


"The leaks are absolutely real. The news is fake."

WUT
posted by zombieflanders at 10:34 AM on February 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


He just said that he concluded that Flynn didn't do anything wrong in part through "watching various programs and reading various articles."

Well if Hannity said it that must make it true.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:34 AM on February 16, 2017


"The leaks are real but the news is fake"
posted by cmfletcher at 10:34 AM on February 16, 2017




I just hope every night for the next month he has horrible dreams about leaks and maybe leeks too.
posted by drezdn at 10:35 AM on February 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


"The leaks are real, the news is fake." Uh, wut??
posted by Namlit at 10:35 AM on February 16, 2017


This just in:

The leaks are real but the reporting about it is fake.
posted by CoffeeHikeNapWine at 10:35 AM on February 16, 2017


"but the news is fake" - DJT (not fake)
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 10:35 AM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


Is there a chance we can not live-blog these press conferences everyday with just one liners that don't add any context for anyone not watching along with you? Keeping up with the huge post-election threads are hard enough, and a lot of these comments become meaningless when they're not read in real time.

I know it's a fine line about what's 'worthy', as this thread exists for reactions, but I think it's reasonable to say that it's not super necessary to have 100 comments posted in under a half hour that are multiple people repeating what Trump said verbatim with little else, especially because there's a lot of repeating from different users as the refresh doesn't happen fast enough. Chat seems tailor-made for what's now happening in this thread.
posted by the thorn bushes have roses at 10:35 AM on February 16, 2017 [47 favorites]


"This administration is running like a fine-tuned machine."

Was that from before Rube and Goldberg merged? The post merger stuff was WAY to complicated but at least it worked.
posted by rough ashlar at 10:35 AM on February 16, 2017


"I can handle a bad story better than anybody, as long as it's true." A master of self-knowledge he is not.
posted by Lyme Drop at 10:35 AM on February 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


"Well the leaks are real. The leaks are absolutely real. But the news is fake."

literally, what does he think this means?!
posted by samthemander at 10:35 AM on February 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


Okay, who else cracked up at "I can handle a bad story better than anybody"?
posted by uosuaq at 10:35 AM on February 16, 2017 [3 favorites]




Ha ha ha. He's trying to negotiate with the media by suggesting that if they weren't so angry and hateful and fake that maybe their ratings would be better.
posted by Jalliah at 10:36 AM on February 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


Wow. Somebody's calling him out for lying about electoral votes. Hot damn. "I was just given that information' is his latest excuse for that.

That was NBC's Peter Alexander. And he just cited Congress's low approval rating and said "I don't know Peter. Is that right?" asking him to factcheck that stat.
posted by zachlipton at 10:36 AM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


How is he still talking?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:36 AM on February 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


I just can't stomach watching this clown, ever, so about those sniffles. Is he doing coke again? Did he get doped up for the presser?

Depending on the answer I might have to revise my estimate for impeachment to before June.
posted by lydhre at 10:36 AM on February 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


The leaks are real, the news is fake on this season's the Real World: the White House.
posted by gatorae at 10:36 AM on February 16, 2017 [7 favorites]


"The leaks are absolutely real. The news is fake."

Translation: "People are leaking totally fabricated info in order to destroy me."

Which, you know, is a complete lie, but I think that's what he's getting at.
posted by soren_lorensen at 10:36 AM on February 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


"The leaks are real, but the news is fake."

This is one of those times that I actually think it's really important that everybody just repeated the same thing in the thread because oh my god.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 10:37 AM on February 16, 2017 [75 favorites]


I can't tune into the press conference and am torn between madly refreshing this thread and walking away so I can watch it later without spoilers.
posted by contraption at 10:37 AM on February 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


fuck my life he is complaining that Hillary got questions before the debates
i need a tomato to throw
posted by prefpara at 10:37 AM on February 16, 2017 [11 favorites]


wait, he brought up the sexual assault charges as a DEFENSE against being involved with the Russians?
posted by murphy slaw at 10:37 AM on February 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


re: drugs cheaper then candy bars.

Clearly we need to get the candy companies to lower the cost of our confectioneries! All while using 100% pure organic non-gmo ingredients grown right here on US soil.
posted by INFJ at 10:37 AM on February 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


Im as anti-live blogging as the next guy (or gal) but wanted to put the "the leaks are real" in 'context' (namely that he followed it up with immediate nonsense.
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 10:37 AM on February 16, 2017


Is he doing coke again? Did he get doped up for the presser?

I'm listening at double speed, so it definitely sounds that way.
posted by Coventry at 10:37 AM on February 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


I just realized that he's not just campaigning here he's trying to negotiate a 'deal' with the media.


This is is the Great Negotiator at work.
posted by Jalliah at 10:37 AM on February 16, 2017 [6 favorites]


"I would have directed Flynn to talk about sanctions if I thought he wasn't"
posted by melissasaurus at 10:38 AM on February 16, 2017 [9 favorites]


I keep expecting a Secret Service agent to wrestle him to the ground for his own protection
posted by theodolite at 10:38 AM on February 16, 2017 [14 favorites]


Does he not know that the death penalty still exists?!
posted by samthemander at 10:38 AM on February 16, 2017 [8 favorites]


"The leaks are absolutely real. The news is fake."

Translation: "People are leaking totally fabricated info in order to destroy me."


No this is a wrong interpretation. What he suggests is that real facts are twisted into alternative lies by being talked about.
posted by Namlit at 10:39 AM on February 16, 2017 [6 favorites]


Donald Trump Jr.:

“Russians make up a pretty disproportionate cross-section of a lot of our assets. We see a lot of money pouring in from Russia.”
posted by misterpatrick at 10:39 AM on February 16, 2017 [17 favorites]


"I was just given that information' is his latest excuse for that.

Ah, like Pence got from Flynn, your underlings are lying to you?
posted by rhizome at 10:39 AM on February 16, 2017


"What happens [with leaks] when I'm dealing with North Korea?"

You'll tell all your buddies in the garden at Mar-a-Lago?
posted by Coventry at 10:39 AM on February 16, 2017 [5 favorites]




i need a tomato to throw

I'd like someone in the audience to throw their shoe.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 10:40 AM on February 16, 2017 [13 favorites]


I've posted some Trump pieces on my blog recently and have had a sudden uptick in visitors from Russia. Don't know what to make of it.

Represents the last several days:
United States 4082
Russia 468
United Kingdom 116
Canada 97
Germany 86
Australia 47
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 10:40 AM on February 16, 2017 [17 favorites]


“Russians make up a pretty disproportionate cross-section of a lot of our assets. We see a lot of money pouring in from Russia.”

Yeah, but none of those are in Russia.
posted by rhizome at 10:40 AM on February 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


Jon Lovett @jonlovett

For those keeping score:
Leaks: REAL
News: FAKE
Good polls: REAL
Bad polls: FAKE
Wikileaks: REAL
Things I say: DUNNO, SOMEONE TOLD ME
posted by soren_lorensen at 10:41 AM on February 16, 2017 [68 favorites]


She should have reported herself!! Self-reportation.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:41 AM on February 16, 2017


OMFG, he's tone-policing press coverage now. "The tone, Jim, the hatred..."
posted by chris24 at 10:41 AM on February 16, 2017 [13 favorites]


The President of the United States just said there was not enough coverage of Hilary's emails during the campaign.
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 10:41 AM on February 16, 2017 [39 favorites]


"I'm really not a bad person, by the way. I do get good ratings, you have to admit."

WTF?!?!?!?!?
posted by zakur at 10:42 AM on February 16, 2017 [23 favorites]


Pat Toomey just announced a telephone town hall with 90 minutes notice. PA people: you know what to do.
posted by zachlipton at 10:42 AM on February 16, 2017 [11 favorites]


okay cool the president is actually clinically insane, this is fine
posted by murphy slaw at 10:42 AM on February 16, 2017 [26 favorites]


I honest to god can't believe anyone was stupid enough to vote for this motherfucker

Given there is no "None of the above" option that forces a redo - this is the result.
posted by rough ashlar at 10:42 AM on February 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


Why Liberals Are Wrong About Donald Trump

That essay is full of truth.
posted by Celsius1414 at 10:42 AM on February 16, 2017 [20 favorites]


"I'm really not a bad person..."
The lies just keep coming.
posted by uosuaq at 10:42 AM on February 16, 2017


You know actual drug candy bars are a thing, and they're quite reasonably priced for a high that can last through a 6 hour flight* or render Maureen Dowd unable to snark.

* I've heard
posted by spitbull at 10:42 AM on February 16, 2017 [21 favorites]




He's saying that he is the only arbiter of the truth. When people watch they don't know what's true but I do.
posted by Jalliah at 10:43 AM on February 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


I've posted some Trump pieces on my blog recently and have had a sudden uptick in visitors from Russia. Don't know what to make of it.


It's the 50 ruble party.
posted by srboisvert at 10:43 AM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


"Fox & Friends has the most honest show."
posted by Mister Bijou at 10:43 AM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]



He is again telling the press that if they changed their tone their ratings would be better.
posted by Jalliah at 10:43 AM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


Dammit this is my lunch hour but I can't turn this off and go eat...
posted by DynamiteToast at 10:44 AM on February 16, 2017


Finally, the real story.
posted by scalefree at 10:44 AM on February 16, 2017 [26 favorites]


Stop liveblogging his speech, please.
posted by agregoli at 10:44 AM on February 16, 2017


Lies? I'm more worried about the incoherence.
posted by Namlit at 10:44 AM on February 16, 2017


I'M NOT MAD
I'M NOT MAD
posted by flatluigi at 10:44 AM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


The crowd is impressively disciplined. I don't think I could keep from giggling.
posted by Coventry at 10:44 AM on February 16, 2017


-- The role of a free press
-- when to shut up
posted by spitbull at 10:44 AM on February 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


He just had this long monologue about how he won the election with press conferences.
posted by prefpara at 10:44 AM on February 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


Stupid fucker still cares about "ratings", surprised he hasn't derailed onto The Aprentice yet.
posted by Artw at 10:44 AM on February 16, 2017


Ah I get it, this news conference is actually an installment of Trump's new weekly TV News Criticism show.

CNN: two thumbs down.
Fox: two thumbs up.

Also: Trump rants and raves that he's not ranting and raving.
posted by dis_integration at 10:44 AM on February 16, 2017 [6 favorites]


"I'm not ranting and raving."

If you have to tell us...
posted by zombieflanders at 10:44 AM on February 16, 2017 [10 favorites]


"I'm not ranting and raving. I'm having a good time."

hooooly shiiiit
posted by murphy slaw at 10:45 AM on February 16, 2017 [32 favorites]


Jim Acosta is a goddamn hero.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:45 AM on February 16, 2017 [7 favorites]


Things Trump Doesn't Seem To Understand contind.

- Drugs
- Candy
- Trump
posted by Namlit at 10:45 AM on February 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


Stop liveblogging his speech, please.

Why ?
posted by Pendragon at 10:45 AM on February 16, 2017 [31 favorites]


Now he says he knows when she should get "good" and "bad" press coverage and the press is dishonest when the reports don't match his expectations.
posted by zachlipton at 10:46 AM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


This press conference is the most insane thing I've watched in a year and a half of closely watching this mess.
posted by gatorae at 10:46 AM on February 16, 2017 [17 favorites]


So.. "Fake News" is when the media reports something in a light that's not the same view that TRUMP has?
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 10:46 AM on February 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


"If you were good reporters like Howard Cosell, where's Howard?'

....he died in 1995
posted by melissasaurus at 10:46 AM on February 16, 2017 [43 favorites]


He just tried to say two things that got blended in an amazing way. He was clearly trying to say that half of Priebus's job is putting out fires, and that the fires are media lies. What he actually said? "Half of his job is putting out lies."
posted by prefpara at 10:47 AM on February 16, 2017 [74 favorites]


I feel like we are live blogging an episode of Black Mirror.
posted by CoffeeHikeNapWine at 10:47 AM on February 16, 2017 [19 favorites]


I'm watching this on CNN in a public mall space in DC. 22 people have stopped to watch, most of them shaking their heads. One guy in a military uniform just walked away saying "he's fuckin crazy".
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:47 AM on February 16, 2017 [116 favorites]


Please, when liveblogging, give non-watchers some context. If you don't want to do that: there's still that good ol' chat room!
posted by everybody had matching towels at 10:48 AM on February 16, 2017 [19 favorites]


The Rasmussen poll has him through the roof now, apparently.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:48 AM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


Pendragon, because this thread isn't a chat room. No one is actually discussing anything, this is the best definition of "noise" I've seen on Metafilter in a long time. I get the impulse because Trump is outrageous but these threads are already hard on everyone's devices and we don't really need every person providing a transcript of what is being said when this is something we can all watch for ourselves.
posted by the thorn bushes have roses at 10:48 AM on February 16, 2017 [16 favorites]


'lots of things are done with uranium, including some bad things'
posted by flatluigi at 10:48 AM on February 16, 2017 [7 favorites]


Thanks for life blogging this shit, because my connection here is too slow to actually listen to it live and also I need to vomit
posted by Namlit at 10:48 AM on February 16, 2017 [51 favorites]


"Hillary Clinton gave Russia 20% of our uranium. You know what uranium is? It's like nuclear weapons."
posted by melissasaurus at 10:49 AM on February 16, 2017 [21 favorites]


I would like to thank you all for making me literally laugh out loud about the cheaper than candy bars drugs.
posted by yoga at 10:49 AM on February 16, 2017 [7 favorites]


Enact a law that all candy bars include drugs. Solves the problem.

There are some candy bars that don't include drugs. The rest? sugar

Imagine the drug war on sugar - Michelle Obama wins!
posted by rough ashlar at 10:49 AM on February 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


But there is no "context" here. That's the point. The context is the windmills of Trump's clearly well-aerated, likely plaque-infested brain.
posted by spitbull at 10:50 AM on February 16, 2017 [27 favorites]




This thing needs a laugh track.
posted by azpenguin at 10:50 AM on February 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


I think the real-time implosion of the POTUS is worth a liveblog and the accompanying strain on everyone's devices.
posted by yhbc at 10:50 AM on February 16, 2017 [67 favorites]


What is the deal with Hillary and a plastic button?

He just said we don't get along with Japan!!!
posted by CoffeeHikeNapWine at 10:51 AM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


I'm astonished that Uranium is used in making Nuclear Weapons and.. some bad things.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 10:51 AM on February 16, 2017


He says there's going to be a plan re Obamacare submitted in early March. Mid March. And after that, tax reform.
posted by prefpara at 10:51 AM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


I can't believe Reince hasn't dragged him from the room yet. I mean, god bless him for taking a ton of questions from real outlets, but DAYUM.
posted by chris24 at 10:51 AM on February 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


Donald Trump would like you to know that everything Russia is doing right now is "NOT GOOD."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:52 AM on February 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


He's now claiming all the shit Putin has been up to is happening because Putin thinks Trump can't make a deal with Russia because of pressure from fake news.
posted by prefpara at 10:52 AM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


Nobody puts Donald in a corner.
posted by spitbull at 10:52 AM on February 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


Will they ever let him do this again? will the white house press corps cease to exist?
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 10:53 AM on February 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


I'm glad we're getting back to Russia and everything else that's wrong with Trump and not "the President plays media critic, badly." The one game the press can't win is arguing about the press with him. On every other matter, they can do damage.
posted by zachlipton at 10:53 AM on February 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


Yeah, having Donny talk nuclear holocaust regarding Russia is not reassuring.
posted by chris24 at 10:53 AM on February 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


"Nuclear holocaust would be like no other."

I rest assured knowing that he has a deep and nuanced understanding of the matter.
posted by vverse23 at 10:53 AM on February 16, 2017 [30 favorites]


"Nuclear holocaust would be like no other."
This is what he learned from his briefing.
posted by prefpara at 10:53 AM on February 16, 2017 [8 favorites]


How do you translate sentences that hold no real meaning?

This presidency is so terrible for me because it brings back my childhood full force.

One of the hardest things I had to learn when I left my mother's house was to answer the question I was being asked, not the question that I thought might be the actual question based on my mother's current pet topic or vendetta. People like Trump use language as a cudgel, not as a communication tool.

Basically we have President Humpty Dumpty. Words mean what he chooses them to mean, no more and no less.
posted by winna at 10:54 AM on February 16, 2017 [41 favorites]


"Nuclear holocaust would be like no other."

......
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:54 AM on February 16, 2017


What does he think he's fucking ANSWERING
posted by flatluigi at 10:54 AM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


I'm glad I started drinking at 8AM.
posted by johnpowell at 10:54 AM on February 16, 2017 [17 favorites]


I can't watch this right now and despite the occasional decontextualized reaction that I can't quite grok, I appreciate the liveblogging
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:54 AM on February 16, 2017 [34 favorites]


Please don't say the words "nuclear holocaust" :(
posted by dis_integration at 10:54 AM on February 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


After this press conference he will likely have to turn around berating the press for "leaking" what he said. Because, what else? Let them quote verbatim what we're hearing just now? Insane.
posted by Namlit at 10:54 AM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


Kid Rock Being Discussed as Potential Senate Candidate in Michigan

Not satire, folks. This is the actual USA in 2017.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:54 AM on February 16, 2017 [7 favorites]


Now he's telling us that a nuclear holocaust would be "like no other." He says he can tell us this even though it's from one of his briefings because anyone who's ever read a book would know this. They briefed him on the basic effects of nuclear war? And has he ever read a book?
posted by zachlipton at 10:55 AM on February 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


Like no other what?
posted by spitbull at 10:55 AM on February 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


Holy shit he's out of his mind.
posted by dis_integration at 10:55 AM on February 16, 2017 [21 favorites]


Him asking if anyone thought Hillary would be tougher than him on Russia... holy shit, dude.
posted by azpenguin at 10:55 AM on February 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


Maggie Haberman on NYT liveblog of this with the understatement of the year: "there is something undignified about this press conference."
posted by soren_lorensen at 10:55 AM on February 16, 2017 [67 favorites]


What's with the "stupid" pantomime.
posted by kuatto at 10:55 AM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


The worst was when Crooked Hillary sold Russia 98% of our evens supply. We could really use those evens right now.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:55 AM on February 16, 2017 [26 favorites]


Oh thank god, I thought nuclear holocaust would be like other
posted by Rust Moranis at 10:55 AM on February 16, 2017 [78 favorites]


We're all gonna die.
posted by dis_integration at 10:55 AM on February 16, 2017 [8 favorites]


Yeah, having Donny talk nuclear holocaust regarding Russia is not reassuring.

At least he's thinking about the issue? I guess that's better than not thinking about it at all?
posted by rough ashlar at 10:56 AM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


Holy shit, he just called BBC "another beauty" "like CNN."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:56 AM on February 16, 2017 [9 favorites]


How are people in white coats not wrestling him to the ground right now? This is literally, no hyperbole, batshit CRAZY.
posted by Freon at 10:56 AM on February 16, 2017 [12 favorites]



He's now morphed into the angry ranting part of his campaign speech. Getting really angry and snarky now.
posted by Jalliah at 10:57 AM on February 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


The takeaway from this press conference is going to be: "I'm not ranting and raving," the President ranted and raved.
posted by zachlipton at 10:57 AM on February 16, 2017 [35 favorites]


I too appreciate the liveblogging (though I understand why some don't). Thanks for taking one for the team, folks.
posted by mudpuppie at 10:57 AM on February 16, 2017 [33 favorites]


"Nuclear holocaust would be like no other."

I bet it has already been done, but a cartoon should be made, showing Trump supporters contemplating mushroom clouds over our cities and exulting about how much the "libtards" are gonna hate the world ending.
posted by thelonius at 10:57 AM on February 16, 2017 [8 favorites]


So, we have a Russian spy ship hanging out in the Hamptons, but we should just chill because he's doing some secret stuff maybe because nuclear holocaust would be like no other and Hillary had a plastic reset button that gave away all of our uranium which is like nuclear weapons and bad stuff.
posted by melissasaurus at 10:57 AM on February 16, 2017 [9 favorites]


Trump will kill us all with a personally motivated Nuclear Yolocaust.
posted by Groundhog Week at 10:58 AM on February 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


BBC asked about the travel ban. "We had a very smooth rollout... but a very bad court." He says there will be a new EO. "The rollout was perfect." He said he wanted to do the same EO with a month of notice, but General Kelly said all the bad people will then come in. "I said wow... I never thought of that." In the meantime "we're vetting very very slowly."
posted by prefpara at 10:58 AM on February 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


He just got owned by a bbc reporter:

T: where are you from
Reporter (heavy british accent): bbc, sir
T: another beauty
R: a good line . . .
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 10:58 AM on February 16, 2017 [6 favorites]


A hero reporter just got him to say he is not aware that anyone on his campaign was talking to Russia during the election.
posted by prefpara at 10:59 AM on February 16, 2017 [74 favorites]


@KateAurthur: "This feels more like having a stroke than it did when I had a stroke."

He is not fucking right in the head.
posted by holgate at 10:59 AM on February 16, 2017 [54 favorites]


Rarely does the title of one of these threads maintain its relevance all the way to the end. Wow.
posted by Celsius1414 at 10:59 AM on February 16, 2017 [16 favorites]


Nuclear Holocaust is trending on Twitter. Welcome to 2017.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:59 AM on February 16, 2017 [10 favorites]


He said he wanted to do the same EO with a month of notice, but General Kelly said all the bad people will then come in. "I said wow... I never thought of that."

Well Mr. Kelly is gone, so now your very good plan can work.
posted by rough ashlar at 11:00 AM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


This is the Murdoch-owned NY Post BREAKING NEWS ALERT:

"Trump goes on rambling rant against the media in first press conference since firing Michael Flynn"
posted by chris24 at 11:00 AM on February 16, 2017 [23 favorites]


Please tell me it's not as crazy as these excerpts being posted.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 11:00 AM on February 16, 2017 [6 favorites]


"I want to find a friendly reporter." Looking for a softball.
posted by prefpara at 11:00 AM on February 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


So he's basically admitting to planning a military response to Russia, right?
posted by joedan at 11:00 AM on February 16, 2017


Please tell me it's not as crazy as these excerpts being posted.

It's very very crazy.
posted by dis_integration at 11:00 AM on February 16, 2017 [12 favorites]


"I want to find a friendly reporter.. are you friendly? Watch how friendly he is"
posted by theodolite at 11:00 AM on February 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


At least he's making it really hard to normalize his administration?

*searches desperately for silver linings*

Seeing some calls on Twitter for a reporter to ask him to draw a clock.
posted by ODiV at 11:00 AM on February 16, 2017 [38 favorites]


remember when Obama wanted dijon
posted by Rust Moranis at 11:00 AM on February 16, 2017 [57 favorites]


So if they didn't delay the EO rollout so the bad guys wouldn't have warning & try to get in early. Did they end up catching any bad guys or did they just all stay away?
posted by scalefree at 11:00 AM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


Sadly, dances_with_sneetches , I had to stop watching because it's actually worse to hear him saying it.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 11:01 AM on February 16, 2017


Nope. He sounds defensive, angry, and not-quite-sane.
posted by MonkeyToes at 11:01 AM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


Another vote in favor of liveblogging. I usually don't listen to these things because I can't stand his voice (and I like pretending Obama is still there, somewhere). I'm glad there's an archive, of sorts, of key quotes that I can easily reference later.

Though this one is so crazed, I'm making myself listen to it now from the beginning.
posted by honestcoyote at 11:01 AM on February 16, 2017 [22 favorites]


> Rarely does the title of one of these threads maintain its relevance all the way to the end. Wow.

Is Kellyanne back?
posted by morspin at 11:01 AM on February 16, 2017


Please tell me it's not as crazy as these excerpts being posted

It is. It is truly demented. I'm just astounded.
posted by snuffleupagus at 11:01 AM on February 16, 2017 [13 favorites]


Please tell me it's not as crazy as these excerpts being posted.

It's far worse.. I feel like i'm literally watching the country expire.


If we live through this, this single press conference is going to be the SOLE material for a semester long course in at least three different disciplines.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 11:01 AM on February 16, 2017 [75 favorites]


OH no, he wasn't friendly T_T
posted by theodolite at 11:02 AM on February 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


I think I'm having a stroke, is this real ?!?!
posted by Pendragon at 11:02 AM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


I bet it has already been done, but a cartoon should be made, showing Trump supporters contemplating mushroom clouds over our cities and exulting about how much the "libtards" are gonna hate the world ending.

Here ya go: Take THAT, Liberals! by Tom Tomorrow
posted by Omon Ra at 11:02 AM on February 16, 2017 [15 favorites]


Trump rambling on the antisemitism question. Reporter tries to clarify....

Trump: "Quiet! Quiet! Quiet!"
posted by zakur at 11:02 AM on February 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


"1. I am the least anti-semitic person you've ever seen in your entire life.
2. Racism. I am the least racist person you've ever seen in your entire life."
(real)
posted by lazaruslong at 11:02 AM on February 16, 2017 [7 favorites]



What the ever loving fuck.

He thinks that a question about dealing with anti-semtism incidents is an accusation that he is anti-semetic and calls the question completely unfair.
posted by Jalliah at 11:02 AM on February 16, 2017 [17 favorites]


Well Mr. Kelly is gone, so now your very good plan can work.

I thought Kelly was still in...? (not like Flynn)
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 11:03 AM on February 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


Did he just say that a question about the rise in anti-Semitism is not "a fair question?" And then yelled at the reporter to be quiet?
posted by zachlipton at 11:03 AM on February 16, 2017 [9 favorites]


Speaking of Holocausts, he just claimed "I am the least anti-Semitic person you'll ever meet."
posted by zombieflanders at 11:03 AM on February 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


"In some cases [DACA recipients] are drug dealers."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:03 AM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


I cannot believe he's up here complaining that he didn't get a "friendly" question from the press, which the question is just "What are you going to do about antisemitic activity?". Fucking insanity.
posted by 0xFCAF at 11:03 AM on February 16, 2017 [6 favorites]


Here ya go: Take THAT, Liberals! by Tom Tomorrow

Tom Tommorow's got my back! Of course he does.
posted by thelonius at 11:03 AM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


Someone asked about the JCC bomb threats (prefaced with "we know you're not antisemitic") and he was like "totally unfair question; sit down" -- did that really happen or is my drug candy bar kicking in?
posted by melissasaurus at 11:03 AM on February 16, 2017 [7 favorites]


He just repeatedly complained that when he specifically asked for a friendly question, he instead got a tough question that wasn't fair. Lying media. What was the question? My paraphrase: Jewish reporter says, we all know you're not an antisemite, but we have not heard you say how you will address the recent rise in antisemitic acts, there have been 48 bomb threats against synagogues, what will your administration do?
posted by prefpara at 11:04 AM on February 16, 2017 [6 favorites]


Please tell me it's not as crazy as these excerpts being posted.

Worse. I happened to be driving for all but the last few minutes so heard it on the radio. He's interrupted almost every reporter 5-10 times to mention how low their ratings are, or how high his are, and keeps alternating between saying the loves all these reporters and is having a great time, and saying they are all a bunch of liars full of hatred. The worst was (upthread) the response on what happened with Flynn. He really, truly said (paraphrasing) "Well I've watched several programs and read several articles and ..." Because that's how I know how my team at work is doing. I read articles in magazines.
posted by freecellwizard at 11:05 AM on February 16, 2017 [9 favorites]


"I love kids, I have kids"
posted by bodywithoutorgans at 11:05 AM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


We're so fucking fucked.
posted by joedan at 11:05 AM on February 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


Trump really thinks that the media's job is to be his unpaid PR firm, I think. I mean, he believes that like how I believe I am posting a comment right now, or that there are products for sale in the grocery store up the street, as something too obvious to be worth stating, normally.
posted by thelonius at 11:05 AM on February 16, 2017 [11 favorites]


What a day to have run out of a certain herb last night.
posted by chris24 at 11:05 AM on February 16, 2017 [7 favorites]


Hack: What does reopening the white house visitors office mean to you?
Pres: Now that is a great question!
posted by cmfletcher at 11:05 AM on February 16, 2017 [6 favorites]


I want to drop a screenshot of the current front page of CNN here, for posterity, so we can remind ourselves later of what just another Thursday is like under the infant Trump administration.
posted by mudpuppie at 11:05 AM on February 16, 2017 [10 favorites]



Did he just say that a question about the rise in anti-Semitism is not "a fair question?" And then yelled at the reporter to be quiet?


Yes. Because what he heard was a reporter accusing him of being bigot.
posted by Jalliah at 11:05 AM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


For those who aren't or can't watch this right now, and are perhaps frustrated by the liveblogging:

This is unbelievable. If SNL used this as a script, people might think they'd finally gone too far. He is insane, he is rambling, he is openly mocking and taunting reporters. He is making no sense, and rambling on in a paranoid and crazed fashion. He is using "I won" and "I don't have to tell you anything" as schoolyard taunts in the face of serious questions.

I have never been more scared in my life.
posted by Freon at 11:05 AM on February 16, 2017 [87 favorites]


This is a literal nightmare. It's like we're on a bus and the bus driver is on fire and ranting crazily and also gunning it towards a cliff, and at the bottom of the cliff, there's a nuke. This is our president. There aren't strong enough words for how ashamed and disgusted and appalled I am right now.
posted by yasaman at 11:06 AM on February 16, 2017 [47 favorites]


The best line on the possibility of Kid Rock as Republican Senate Candidate in Michigan was from Heather Anne Campbell last night on @Midnight who said Rock pledges to filibuster all Democratic legislation by yelling, "My name is Kiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii--"
posted by DirtyOldTown at 11:06 AM on February 16, 2017 [18 favorites]


After tuning in to this particular Presser I actually commend everyone for showing so much restraint in chat filter.
posted by mazola at 11:07 AM on February 16, 2017 [10 favorites]


2016 was so relatively unstressful.
posted by Artw at 11:08 AM on February 16, 2017 [30 favorites]


Trump really thinks that the media's job is to be his unpaid PR firm, I think. I mean, he believes that like how I believe I am posting a comment right now, or that there are products for sale in the grocery store up the street, as something too obvious to be worth stating, normally.

To be fair, he thinks his PR firm's job is to be his unpaid PR firm, too.
posted by dinty_moore at 11:08 AM on February 16, 2017 [63 favorites]


the infant Trump administration. Well, he likes kids, we've heard.
posted by Namlit at 11:08 AM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


Count me in favor of the liveblogging. Someday it will be of great importance to some researchers to be able to see people's reactions to the Trump administration in real time.
posted by Soliloquy at 11:08 AM on February 16, 2017 [14 favorites]


Seriously, this is a nightmare to watch. I feel like running around my office holding my face muttering "I am freaking out." And apparently another EO is coming today. I'm just. Scared.
posted by prefpara at 11:08 AM on February 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


Every time he's visible to the public, the most important thing is whether or not he's able to increase his support from it. Scarier is better if it means a few more people lose confidence in him.
posted by Rust Moranis at 11:08 AM on February 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


President Trump: you have never witnessed that.
posted by Tevin at 11:09 AM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


I have to think both impeachment & the 25th are both more of a reality than they were an hour ago. We're not there yet, greed & privilege are heavy things to counter-balance. But we're closer.
posted by scalefree at 11:09 AM on February 16, 2017 [24 favorites]


Some news in the middle of this madness: A HUD Official Once Criticized Trump. Now He’s an Ex-Official

One of Ben Carson's top aides, now a senior advisor at HUD, was fired and marched out by security after they discovered he wrote anti-Trump columns during the last months of the campaign. They had him, one of the few black conservatives in the administration, marched out by security. Apparently, nobody bothered to vet him before they appointed him, and they just got around to googling his name. And then they fired him.
posted by zachlipton at 11:09 AM on February 16, 2017 [45 favorites]


Trump now bragging about how he got more of "the African-American vote" than expected, because someone mentioned inner cities.
posted by 0xFCAF at 11:09 AM on February 16, 2017


OMG I just heard your POTUS say 'Melania will be worked by Ivanka'




our feed in the UK is a few minutes ahead of yours, the Q about Melania is WEIRD!!!
posted by Wilder at 11:09 AM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]



Gets a question about what his plans are re inner cities.

Talks about how he was so happy with all the black, hispanic and women voted for him.
Then rambles about fighting crime and strong on crime. We have to fix it and just rambles on about how things are bad and just compared inner cities to the middle east.
posted by Jalliah at 11:09 AM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


His answer on the inner cities is just... I... CAN'T EVEN

Chicago is worse than the Middle East?

I genuinely don't understand how to even describe what is happening anymore
posted by prefpara at 11:09 AM on February 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


Well Mr. Kelly is gone, so now your very good plan can work.
I thought Kelly was still in...? (not like Flynn)


Do you think Kelly still wants to be considered in? If "very good people" tell him Kelly's out then he'll think Kelly's out.

After THIS presser - how many people are going to want to "spend time with their families?" The infographic of "spend time with their families" is gonna have to be plotted on a exponential axis just to keep it on the screen.

(and I now am going to go pop some popcorn to have ready for the story about how the family members of the Trump associated people have questions posted to their social media walls "Hey (person) ya looking forward to spending more time with (other person who's the Trump associate)?" )
posted by rough ashlar at 11:10 AM on February 16, 2017


"Are they friends of yours???"
posted by flatluigi at 11:10 AM on February 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


"Do you want to set up the meeting [with the Congressional Black Caucus]? Are they friends of yours??"
posted by theodolite at 11:10 AM on February 16, 2017 [21 favorites]


Just told black reporter to set up a meeting for him with the Congressional Black Caucus.
posted by zakur at 11:10 AM on February 16, 2017 [49 favorites]


We could really use those evens right now.

To be fair, Hillary traded those for Russia's "Surely this"s which we can always burn for warmth.
posted by drezdn at 11:10 AM on February 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


He's now telling a reporter to set up a meeting between him and the Congressional Black Caucus.

[real]
posted by prefpara at 11:10 AM on February 16, 2017


Holy shit: Trump asks black woman about the black caucus: "are they friends of yours?"
posted by dis_integration at 11:10 AM on February 16, 2017 [14 favorites]


Trump asks April Ryan if she can set up the meeting with the Congressional Black Caucus.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:10 AM on February 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


"Will you set up a meeting?" he asks an african american reporter asking if he'll meet the CBC.

DOES HE THINK ALL BLACK PEOPLE KNOW EACH OTHER??!?!
posted by Freon at 11:10 AM on February 16, 2017 [55 favorites]


omg he asked the black reporter if she wanted to set up the meeting for him and the Congressional Black Caucus because "are they friends of yours?"

what the actual fuck
posted by lazaruslong at 11:11 AM on February 16, 2017 [7 favorites]



And when the reporter asked if he was going to meet with the Black Caucus he says to her, yeah I'd love to meet with them, are they friends of yours can you set up the meeting?
posted by Jalliah at 11:11 AM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


Oh my god. He just asked a black reporter (99% sure that's April Ryan) "are they friends of yours?" referring to the Congressional Black Caucus.
posted by zachlipton at 11:11 AM on February 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


He just demanded that a reporter set up a meeting with the Congressional Black Caucus. Presumably because the reporter is also black. Because all blacks know each other.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 11:11 AM on February 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


It reminds me of live blogging 9/11.
posted by spitbull at 11:11 AM on February 16, 2017 [22 favorites]


he got a follow up on the recent rise antisemitic acts and is saying that's being done by his opponents
posted by prefpara at 11:11 AM on February 16, 2017


Oh, good. Followup on the antisemitism question.

His answer: False flag ops by his opponents.
posted by zakur at 11:11 AM on February 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


Reporter asks again about anti-semtism and says 'This isn't about you or your personality it's about what your admin is going to do about it."

He says it's not his people doing it. Not his supporters it's done by other people to anger people like you.
posted by Jalliah at 11:12 AM on February 16, 2017 [6 favorites]


How has Priebus not engineered a microphone malfunction by now?
posted by AndrewInDC at 11:12 AM on February 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


If you're not watching live but can do a clip, here's the antisemitism question where he tells a Jewish reporter to sit down.
posted by zachlipton at 11:12 AM on February 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


So, I like the live-blogging, but we just had 12 people post the same exchange. Can we at least cut back on that?
posted by miguelcervantes at 11:12 AM on February 16, 2017 [17 favorites]




His answer to 'What are you going to do about the rise of antisemitism in this country, especially in your name' was "you know it's actually by my opponents, right?"

i'm so fucking done
posted by flatluigi at 11:13 AM on February 16, 2017 [7 favorites]


I'm not watching or listening to this, but I'm still hyperventilating.
posted by Mei's lost sandal at 11:13 AM on February 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


He ended the press conference and you could hear exactly one person loudly clapping as he walked out.

What the FUCK just happened.
posted by prefpara at 11:13 AM on February 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


I feel like I just watched the alternate universe version of Bulworth.
posted by azpenguin at 11:14 AM on February 16, 2017 [11 favorites]


I'm very thankful of everyone for posting and liveblogging this press conference. I don't have the stomach oto watch it live, I got the full Fear and Loathing about a week ago and it has only gotten worse whenever I hear The Liar speak.
posted by Catblack at 11:14 AM on February 16, 2017 [19 favorites]


That was profoundly disturbing.
posted by snuffleupagus at 11:14 AM on February 16, 2017 [15 favorites]


So many (dystopian) possibilities these days.

Forever ago we were talking about what the map would look like when the west coast splintered off. I had an idea and dug up a link but thought, at the time, No, it's way off base. Now, one hour and one press conference later I actually feel like we're closer to it than ever before.
posted by achrise at 11:14 AM on February 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


Oh, good. Followup on the antisemitism question.

His answer: False flag ops by his opponents.


Oh good. We're just terrorizing ourselves. That's reassuring.

How hard is it to say 'sending bomb threats is bad'?
posted by dinty_moore at 11:14 AM on February 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


Don't forget to tip your bartenders and moderators!
posted by thelonius at 11:14 AM on February 16, 2017 [15 favorites]


Katy Tur on MSNBC after it ended just called the press conference a Festivus airing of grievances.
posted by chris24 at 11:14 AM on February 16, 2017 [53 favorites]


That was probably Stephen Miller clapping at the end.
posted by zakur at 11:15 AM on February 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


this is the first moment i've believed impeachment is actually possible
posted by Glibpaxman at 11:15 AM on February 16, 2017 [23 favorites]


Has he had a nervous breakdown, WTF?
posted by waitingtoderail at 11:15 AM on February 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


I'm more exhausted watching that press conference than I have been after half marathons or backpacking through the Sierras.
posted by CoffeeHikeNapWine at 11:16 AM on February 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


OK SO


democrat agitators are doing all the painting 'unaccepatble images' on walls

his people WOULD NEVER DO THAT!!!!!

holy shitsofuckit....
posted by Wilder at 11:16 AM on February 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


christ do I want to go back to bed right now
posted by cortex at 11:16 AM on February 16, 2017 [64 favorites]


Jesus christ, my BRAIN. I only was able to listen to part of that mess and I feel exponentially dumber. That was completely surreal.
posted by marshmallow peep at 11:16 AM on February 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


I'm going to go lie down for a while. Mods; sorry about the mess. Feel free to de-duplicate all my commentary out of the thread.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 11:16 AM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


And the White House official live stream ends: "JUST CONCLUDED: President Trump Holds a Press Conference"; the official name for what just happened, with the bitten tongue titling of an Absurdist play of 50 years ago.
posted by Theiform at 11:16 AM on February 16, 2017 [16 favorites]


> this is the first moment i've believed impeachment is actually possible

This is no different than anything he has done in the last 18 months. Don't get too excited.*



* I hope I'm wrong.
posted by Tevin at 11:16 AM on February 16, 2017 [8 favorites]


27 days. Not even 4 weeks and he's this unhinged. Without even a crisis that isn't of his own making.
posted by chris24 at 11:16 AM on February 16, 2017 [9 favorites]


Katy Tur on MSNBC after it ended just called the press conference a Festivus airing of grievances.

Jake Tapper said the same thing on CNN.
posted by DynamiteToast at 11:17 AM on February 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


How could any of those reporters have endured that without hysterically laughing?
posted by yoga at 11:17 AM on February 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


That was incredibly disturbing. I also just want to go back to bed right now. It's like he just overloaded my brain with how crazy he is. He is unhinged and dangerous.
posted by lazaruslong at 11:17 AM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


was that the pivot
posted by Rust Moranis at 11:17 AM on February 16, 2017 [101 favorites]


This is our president. There aren't strong enough words for how ashamed and disgusted and appalled I am right now.

Just imagine how Joe Exotic feels having lost to this Trump-tastic Trump!
posted by rough ashlar at 11:18 AM on February 16, 2017


this is the first moment i've believed impeachment is actually possible

You're dreaming. The GOP base couldn't be happier with this performance.
posted by joedan at 11:18 AM on February 16, 2017 [6 favorites]


DOES HE THINK ALL BLACK PEOPLE KNOW EACH OTHER??!?!

Yes. Yes, he does. This isn't the first time he's ventured into this territory. He thinks black people have a kind of collective consciousness, so black people who live, say, in the DC suburbs can telepathically direct black people in Chicago. He thinks Ben Carson knows how to run HUD because he's tapped into the group mind.
posted by holgate at 11:18 AM on February 16, 2017 [65 favorites]


Where are these drugs that are cheaper than candy bars that he's talking about? (asking for a friend)

Canada. Because we buy in bulk and negotiate with the dealers.
posted by srboisvert at 11:18 AM on February 16, 2017 [11 favorites]


And you know right now he's surrounded by people in Oval Office saying, "Great job, Mr. President!"

At least to his face, for now.
posted by martin q blank at 11:19 AM on February 16, 2017 [6 favorites]


At every opportunity, the press now needs to present Republican members of Congress with Trump's insane answers today in the form of a question.
posted by AndrewInDC at 11:19 AM on February 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


There were many moments there that caused my jaw to become unhinged, "nuclear holocaust" high among them. But only one literally caused me to literally stand up and say "my fucking god" to the alarm and bewilderment of those around me. And that's when he asked April Ryan if she would setup a meeting with the Congressional Black Caucus and asked if they were friends of hers. I'm... It's 2017. We're not even fucking past "all people of the same minority race are friends?"
posted by zachlipton at 11:19 AM on February 16, 2017 [11 favorites]


Fox Business Network guy: "this press conference is insane but as long as donald cuts my taxes im cool with it"
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:20 AM on February 16, 2017 [11 favorites]


this is the first moment i've believed impeachment is actually possible

Given his 100% irresponsible accusation that liberals and/or Jews are behind the rise in anti-Semitism, and support from the most heavily-armed 30%-40% of the population, I'm thinking Kristallnacht is more likely than impeachment.
posted by zombieflanders at 11:20 AM on February 16, 2017 [7 favorites]


So, I like the live-blogging, but we just had 12 people post the same exchange. Can we at least cut back on that?

I feel like there's a certain documentary function to those comment-bursts in these threads (as a person who enjoys re-reading some of the live-bloggish segments) in preserving some of the crazier moments of WTF vertigo -- but it is always good to remember to preview.
posted by snuffleupagus at 11:20 AM on February 16, 2017 [23 favorites]


Why is this thread even still called "Kellyanne, that makes no sense"?
Also, what's "sense"? I kinda lost track here.
posted by Namlit at 11:21 AM on February 16, 2017 [2 favorites]



was that the pivot


His attempt at one. He was trying to be reasonable and persuade the press that he is a good guy and you all just need to be nicer, here's why. 'Reasonable, reasonable, reasonable' (at least as well as he can manage) I'm not angry, not angry at all.
Then his true colors shone brightly by the end and got all angry and grrr.
posted by Jalliah at 11:21 AM on February 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


This is my first laugh since Nov 9. Please let me have that.
posted by yoga at 11:22 AM on February 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


this is the first moment i've believed impeachment is actually possible

You're dreaming. The GOP base couldn't be happier with this performance.


Oh, I know. That's why I still think it's only a small possibility. But until today I assumed it would be an impossible waste of time to even try. Now... not so sure.
posted by Glibpaxman at 11:22 AM on February 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


I do wish the media would be less "he said this particular thing that doesn't make sense because of this other particular thing" and more "he is really batshit insane." They keep expecting him to act presidential, and then are surprised when he doesn't. It gets repetitive after a while. Yes, hopefully more pressers like this will help lead towards impeachment or resignation or what have you.
posted by Melismata at 11:22 AM on February 16, 2017 [6 favorites]


Cocaine is a hell of a drug.
posted by Artw at 11:23 AM on February 16, 2017 [8 favorites]


So, I like the live-blogging, but we just had 12 people post the same exchange. Can we at least cut back on that?

I dunno, when the Music City Miracle happened, I bet there were a lot of football forums that blew up with a simultaneous exchange "oh my god did you just see that, we're going to be talking about this moment in twenty years." Ditto when the plane hit the second tower. The April Ryan comment is right up there.
posted by Mayor West at 11:24 AM on February 16, 2017 [12 favorites]


you could hear exactly one person loudly clapping as he walked out.

Spicey. Had to be Spicey.
posted by holgate at 11:24 AM on February 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


I do wish the media would be less "he said this particular thing that doesn't make sense because of this other particular thing" and more "he is really batshit insane." They keep expecting him to act presidential, and then are surprised when he doesn't. It gets repetitive after a while. Yes, hopefully more pressers like this will help lead towards impeachment or resignation or what have you.

CNN right now ' we're stunned' 'untethered' 'unhinged' 'not dealing in reality'
posted by Jalliah at 11:24 AM on February 16, 2017 [54 favorites]


Also CNN: "There was a Rodney Dangerfield quality"
posted by Brainy at 11:25 AM on February 16, 2017 [25 favorites]


CNN: "Donald Trump, if you're listening. You're the President. You won. Now stop whining and get to work."

holy shit.
posted by Glibpaxman at 11:25 AM on February 16, 2017 [100 favorites]


I have to admit I'm impressed by his gravitas.
posted by kirkaracha at 11:26 AM on February 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


Is it called gravitas when you lose all ability to screen yourself?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:27 AM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


This is one of those times when I'm not sure whether I'm glad or not glad that I can't watch TV during the day. Because wow, judging by Twitter, that was the press-conference apocalypse.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 11:28 AM on February 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


I think he invented anti-gravitas.
posted by Coventry at 11:29 AM on February 16, 2017 [59 favorites]


Let me just say that if you weren't watching, it was, in its totality, a billion times worse than text alone can convey.
posted by zachlipton at 11:29 AM on February 16, 2017 [55 favorites]


It's to the point where when Trump speaks, all I can hear in my head is Tracy Jordan saying, "I'm straight-up mentally ill."
posted by DirtyOldTown at 11:30 AM on February 16, 2017 [34 favorites]


That's a good start Jalliah, but sometimes it feels like the media is arguing with a crazy relative trying to convince them that no, aliens aren't real, trying to use logic. Stop arguing, already! Logic is not going to work. I felt like their continuing to ask him (normal) questions was just feeding the beast, and not helping, making everything much worse than it already is. On the other hand, maybe they're trying to get him to figuratively hang himself, there's a method to their madness. I guess. I dunno. *goes into corner blocking ears shouting LA LA LA*
posted by Melismata at 11:30 AM on February 16, 2017


John Dean on MSNBC said he's been going to press conferences since Ike in 1957 and he's never seen a more classless president. Oh, and he worked for Nixon.
posted by chris24 at 11:30 AM on February 16, 2017 [53 favorites]


support of the most heavily-armed 30%-40% of the population

I keep seeing this chestnut, and I deeply resent this false stereotype of heavily-armed Trump voters vs. pacifist, latte-sipping Clinton voters. It's a whole lot more complicated than that. Not to mention: the most heavily-armed percentage of our population are the actual military, who are by and large not interested in, say, entering shooting wars in Syria that they don't need to be fighting.
posted by Andrhia at 11:30 AM on February 16, 2017 [13 favorites]


Maybe this is like that thing he'd do on the campaign trail, where he'd distract from a bad news cycle by saying outrageous things which would fire up his base and alarm everyone else?
posted by Coventry at 11:30 AM on February 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


BTW, April Ryan is the reporter that Omarosa threatened and let slip that she was being directly targeted by the Trump administration.
posted by zombieflanders at 11:30 AM on February 16, 2017 [46 favorites]


The astonishing thing with the April Ryan moment is that Ryan has recently become a part of the story by asking tough questions, her fight/the dossier/secret recording thing with Omarosa, etc... This time, she asked a totally straight simple question that was basically asking him to talk about his agenda and whether he'd work with Congressional leaders. It was as straight over the plate as it gets. And he didn't just blow it; he started acting like a racist buffoon.
posted by zachlipton at 11:31 AM on February 16, 2017 [39 favorites]


SNL, please come back this week. You don't need to fill 90 minutes. Just have Alec Baldwin and company re-do that entire 90 minutes.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:32 AM on February 16, 2017 [20 favorites]


The military is from what I've seen absolutely stuffed full of anti-Clinton conspiracy theorists who are most likely Trump supporters.
posted by Artw at 11:34 AM on February 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


It's times like this I feel really sorry for Alec Baldwin. Nobody should have to try to read from that script.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 11:34 AM on February 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


So I went over to MetaFilter Chat because that's kind of what it's for, IMHO. Anyway, here's the NYT transcript and video of the jaw-dropping, super crazy press conference that led an ABC commentator to refer to Captain Queeg afterward. That's certainly a new something.
posted by Bella Donna at 11:34 AM on February 16, 2017 [8 favorites]


Honestly, I think SNL should just play it as it aired and wait to see how long it takes for people to realize it's not a joke and we're all going to die.
posted by zachlipton at 11:34 AM on February 16, 2017 [30 favorites]


I don't even want to know why I came back to a "500 new comments" message after only two and a half hours, do I?
posted by a box and a stick and a string and a bear at 11:34 AM on February 16, 2017 [41 favorites]


Not a peep about the press conference on /r/the_donald, so far...
posted by Coventry at 11:35 AM on February 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


I keep seeing this chestnut, and I deeply resent this false stereotype of heavily-armed Trump voters vs. pacifist, latte-sipping Clinton voters. It's a whole lot more complicated than that. Not to mention: the most heavily-armed percentage of our population are the actual military, who are by and large not interested in, say, entering shooting wars in Syria that they don't need to be fighting.

Poll: 85% of Ohio gun owners support Trump

Survey: Career-Oriented Troops Favor Trump Over Clinton
posted by zombieflanders at 11:35 AM on February 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


I'm glad you're with me, MetaFilter—here at the end of all things.
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 11:36 AM on February 16, 2017 [77 favorites]


Oh good. We're just terrorizing ourselves. That's reassuring.

How hard is it to say 'sending bomb threats is bad'?


I guess it depends on what percentage of your supporters are behind the bomb threats?
posted by Mchelly at 11:36 AM on February 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


I don't even want to know why I came back to a "500 new comments" message after only two and a half hours, do I?

BTW, is someone thinking about making a new thread? This one's going to get unwieldy soon.
posted by Coventry at 11:36 AM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


Remember when "Fool me once, shame on...shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again" was taken as a sign that the President wasn't all that sharp?

Those were good times, huh?
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 11:37 AM on February 16, 2017 [36 favorites]


I think he invented anti-gravitas.

Good. At last we will be getting the long promised flying cars.
posted by JackFlash at 11:37 AM on February 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


I don't even want to know why I came back to a "500 new comments" message after only two and a half hours, do I?

Oh you really should scroll up at least a bit so you can see the crazy.
posted by cooker girl at 11:37 AM on February 16, 2017 [6 favorites]


If I were a reporter asked to cover the Melbourne, FL rally thing, I'd refuse. The intention will be to put the press in a cage again and have magahats intimidate and abuse them, while the White House occupant rants about fake news. Somebody's going to get hurt.
posted by holgate at 11:37 AM on February 16, 2017 [10 favorites]


It's so jarring to watch conservatives watch the same thing as I just watched and have a reaction like "Wow what a man of the people telling it like it is!". Are we even in the same reality?

I feel like I just sat down to Thanksgiving dinner and watched my uncle chow down on a dog turd while grinning like it's a birthday cake. Maybe it's one of those psychology experiments where it's you in a room with five collaborators who are all saying the walls are painted green when they're actually red - will you go along with it?
posted by 0xFCAF at 11:38 AM on February 16, 2017 [35 favorites]


"Fool me once, shame on...shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again" was taken as a sign that the President wasn't all that sharp?

That was actually a clever save. Taking "shame on me" out of context would have made a great attack ad.
posted by Coventry at 11:39 AM on February 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


It truly was jaw-dropping. My brain has lost the ability to make all words come out coherently after seeing that.

And of all the millions of thoughts that come out of this, this paralyzation of reality, this fucking INSANITY, it becomes more obvious that until/if he falls, he will continue to win. We are all so confounded about all the ABSURD things he is saying and doing, he has effectively victimized the US/World population. We don't know how to even begin removing someone like him from power because there is no step one, there is no beginning, there is just continous never-ending madness and deflection.

Because there is nothing blatantly impeachable about ranting like a moron. About babbling about the election and lying unprovoked by any notion of rationality. If Trump has any genius left in that dementia-ridden word salad head of us, I think he must realize the paralyzing effect it has us on us. And prevents us from being able to agree upon reality, and leads to him bullying the press corps for an hour.

Seriously thank god for this thread and the people here because it helps at least remind me that something is normal. And besides the close ones we have in personal life, there are people out that care. And hate this bullshit. And know this is nothing close to normal. At least we're all in it together.
posted by andruwjones26 at 11:39 AM on February 16, 2017 [15 favorites]


Hilarious/terrifying one line summaries flying across twitter:
• GOP Senator sms'ed John King: "He should do this with a therapist, not on live television"
• “Like a sports press conference with a coach who knows he's about to be fired.”
• Russian friend texts me during the presser: "What an embarrassment."
• Remember the ramblings of drunk Boris Yeltsin? @realDonaldTrump just made him look like Winston Churchill.
• George III press conference.
posted by Kabanos at 11:40 AM on February 16, 2017 [45 favorites]


Survey: Career-Oriented Troops Favor Trump Over Clinton

That survey is from last year, that's, like, a million Trump-years.
posted by Pendragon at 11:40 AM on February 16, 2017 [12 favorites]


At the same time, I think there's a feedback loop - watch a lot of ultraviolence, live in America, watch ultraviolence, etc and it helps to create and sustain some bad subjectivities.

So behind on the thread (I had to sleep) but yeah I have a real personal tension about media myself. Because I am a gamer and I've been spending a lot of time hacking virtual bodies into bits with a sword recently. And my favorite TV show of recent years was Hannibal.

But at the same time I think that our media landscape does affect our society. I don't watch a lot of movies because my disability makes going to the theater difficult. I recently wanted to rent something from Redbox and I looked through all the options and was REALLY taken aback. Like, the vast, vast majority was of Men Doing Violence. Mostly in a military/vigilante way, but also so many torture porn horror films. And there's always been macho action movies, but I feel like when I was growing up there wasn't so damn many of them. And there was more balance with, like, heartwarming dramas and romantic comedies and movies for the whole family.

I know I live in a bubble of my own creation. I don't have TV. I watch the series I'm interested in and I talk with my friends who share a worldview and I play a lot of non-mainstream video games. And maybe it's that I'm approaching 40 and feeling more out of touch, but when I do swim into mainstream entertainment culture so often I feel like it's more and more Made For Men.
posted by threeturtles at 11:40 AM on February 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


Just still can't get over how fucking unhinged that was. Trump is really 'like no other'.
posted by DynamiteToast at 11:40 AM on February 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


Dear CNN: Nothing makes me change the channel more quickly than "Let's hear from Jeffrey Lord..."
posted by Dr. Zira at 11:40 AM on February 16, 2017 [6 favorites]


even i couldve done better than that
posted by possibly sean spicer at 11:41 AM on February 16, 2017 [61 favorites]


He just said that he concluded that Flynn didn't do anything wrong in part through "watching various programs and reading various articles."

If Flynn didn't do anything wrong, why did Trump fire him. Because the press made him?

Weak. Sad.
posted by JackFlash at 11:41 AM on February 16, 2017 [7 favorites]


The crazy thing is that even with all of us that were commenting live about the press conference, we probably didn't even get a decent portion of things he said that were insane! It was like trying to swim upriver in Class VI rapids.
posted by CoffeeHikeNapWine at 11:41 AM on February 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


It's so jarring to watch conservatives watch the same thing as I just watched and have a reaction like "Wow what a man of the people telling it like it is!". Are we even in the same reality?

Who cares? Trump will always have his base. The question is, is Trump's performance today helping persuade swing voters and so on to stick with him over the next three years and nine months.
posted by My Dad at 11:41 AM on February 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


omg, every day it's worse. Every day, I think, surely it can't get much worse; just get through today like you did yesterday. And every day, it's worse.

Can't-evens-bucket is empty, surely-this bin is out clanking down the road in the wind, and we all need a crop dusting of Xanax.
posted by Dashy at 11:41 AM on February 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


So Trump played being a successful businessman on The Apprentice. Now he's playing being the President.
posted by morspin at 11:42 AM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


Remember the ramblings of drunk Boris Yeltsin? @realDonaldTrump just made him look like Winston Churchill.

Churchill would have drunk Yeltsin under the fucking table and then given a speech to Parliament that got a legit standing ovation, just for the record.
posted by Etrigan at 11:42 AM on February 16, 2017 [31 favorites]


I'm glad you're with me, MetaFilter—here at the end of all things.

Metafilter: Chat Room at the End of the Universe.
posted by ZeusHumms at 11:42 AM on February 16, 2017 [25 favorites]


Here's a rush transcript if you want the exact wording of all those classic lines, like "You know what uranium is, right? This thing called nuclear weapons like lots of things are done with uranium including some bad things."
posted by theodolite at 11:42 AM on February 16, 2017 [16 favorites]




Gah I totally missed him sarcastically talking about how he knows it bad politically but the greatest thing he could do was shoot that Russian sub out of the water.
posted by Jalliah at 11:43 AM on February 16, 2017 [6 favorites]


It's so jarring to watch conservatives watch the same thing as I just watched and have a reaction like "Wow what a man of the people telling it like it is!". Are we even in the same reality?

This is what I keep ruminating on these days. Trumpers see some sort of straight-talking (?) strong daddy figure and wtf. I mean, other awful Republicans, I can see how they fool their base. They're slick, or they're charismatic, or they're smooth-talkers. But Trump is a straight-up gibbering buffoon who just spend a whole press conference whining like a petulant, incoherent child. HOW DO THEY SEE WHAT DO THEY SEE?
posted by Mavri at 11:43 AM on February 16, 2017 [16 favorites]


It's so jarring to watch conservatives watch the same thing as I just watched and have a reaction like "Wow what a man of the people telling it like it is!". Are we even in the same reality?

Who cares? Trump will always have his base. The question is, is Trump's performance today helping persuade swing voters and so on to stick with him over the next three years and nine months.
posted by My Dad


A lot of the people in this thread care? And there can be more than one question? And it's not up to you to tell us all what the question really is?
posted by lazaruslong at 11:45 AM on February 16, 2017 [10 favorites]


Well they don't actually have to watch or listen to things he says. They just know.
posted by dilaudid at 11:45 AM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


Nobody remembers end-stage embarrassment to himself Winston Churchill.
posted by Artw at 11:45 AM on February 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


this remake of pontypool isn't as good as the original
posted by entropicamericana at 11:45 AM on February 16, 2017 [28 favorites]


HOW DO THEY SEE WHAT DO THEY SEE?

Spicer could have just stuck an empty cardboard box with an "R" painted on the front up on the podium and a large segment of Republicans would be cheering the strong, silent wisdom of President Box.
posted by soren_lorensen at 11:45 AM on February 16, 2017 [60 favorites]


Dunning-Kruger is a hell of a drug, that's how.
posted by palomar at 11:46 AM on February 16, 2017 [9 favorites]


CNN: Senior admin official tells me Trump walked into the Oval Office this morning and told his top aides: "Let's do a press conference today."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:47 AM on February 16, 2017 [67 favorites]


Dunning-Kruger: the drug of choice for 30 million American voters
posted by morspin at 11:47 AM on February 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


..Now that whatever that thing was is over, I have written a letter to use to exhort Congress Critters to condemn terrorist threats against Jewish Community Centers and synagogues. One of the most under-reported situations last year was the stench of antisemitism all over the Republican campaign and the real effects that has had on Jewish people in our country. If its helpful, you have my permission to use it:
Congress Critter,

I am writing today to urge you to condemn in the strongest possible terms the recent string of at least 48 terroristic threats directed at Jewish Community Centers and synagogues all over our country. Yet, the national media are not covering these threats enough. These threats are especially concerning given the antisemitic language and imagery repeatedly employed by this administration [and its hoards of deplorables*]. I am trans and and queer, and I know to the core of my being that an attack on one marginalized group is an attack on all.

Even if the media won't cover these domestic terror threats, the federal government must investigate these terroristic threats against people trying to practice their religion in peace and freedom. [While I know you to be an accepting person who fights for the equality of all people*], it is important that we all stand up for our Jewish siblings--please condemn these actions and demand federal investigations into them.
* Probably only effective with Democratic politicians
** Only use this part if it's rings true for the person you're contacting.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 11:47 AM on February 16, 2017 [15 favorites]


Spicer could have just stuck an empty cardboard box with an "R" painted on the front up on the podium and a large segment of Republicans would be cheering the strong, silent wisdom of President Box.

Don't you ruin Logan's Run for me now.

FISH, PLANKTON, PROTEIN AND SEAGREENS. SAD!
posted by Rust Moranis at 11:47 AM on February 16, 2017 [19 favorites]


Spicer could have just stuck an empty cardboard box with an "R" painted on the front up on the podium and a large segment of Republicans would be cheering the strong, silent wisdom of President Box.

I strongly favor President Box to our other alternatives at the moment.
posted by Glibpaxman at 11:48 AM on February 16, 2017 [28 favorites]


CNN: Senior admin official tells me Trump walked into the Oval Office this morning and told his top aides: "Let's do a press conference today."

Christ. Whoever he talked to immediately before that must have been his dealer.
posted by Artw at 11:48 AM on February 16, 2017 [12 favorites]


Nuclear holocaust would be very bad, sure. I'm not so sure it would be like no other though. Having just experienced a press conference holocaust I'm starting to see the similarities.
posted by scalefree at 11:49 AM on February 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


I deeply resent this false stereotype of heavily-armed Trump voters vs. pacifist, latte-sipping Clinton voters.

As a gun owning Clinton voter, I have hated this stereotype for a long time. Target/skeet shooting is fun, and hunting - especially with dogs - is great. I got an elk this year, which will replace my beef/pork consumption for a whole year with a Non-GMO, No-Anti-biotic, free-range, grass fed, ultra lean meat. The inedible portions got made into dogfood, and the pelt was donated to make gloves and such for poor kids and the disabled.

Sustainable hunting is something any leftist should get behind - it's part and parcel with habitat and land management - and I just don't understand why more libs don't do it.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 11:49 AM on February 16, 2017 [73 favorites]


Metafilter: fresh as harvest day
posted by Yowser at 11:50 AM on February 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


It's so jarring to watch conservatives watch the same thing as I just watched and have a reaction like "Wow what a man of the people telling it like it is!". Are we even in the same reality?

The one thing that helps me understand it is imagining mirror image Trump. That alternate universe where Trump got elected as a populist Democrat. Many of us would defend him, even after incoherent news conferences and obvious evidence of corruption, because he kinda sorta agrees with us ideologically and we hope he'll push that agenda through despite all evidence to the contrary. Some of us might deliberately misinterpret the incoherence as plain speaking in order to preserve our preconceptions.

That's the charitable view anyways. Democrats are better at turning on their own so we probably wouldn't keep up the illusion as long as the Republicans in our timeline will.
posted by honestcoyote at 11:50 AM on February 16, 2017 [10 favorites]


The question is, is Trump's performance today helping persuade swing voters and so on to stick with him over the next three years and nine months.

If it is, all I can say is that we as a species deserve what nightmare eschaton is heading our way.
posted by Mayor West at 11:50 AM on February 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


A lot of the people in this thread care? And there can be more than one question? And it's not up to you to tell us all what the question really is?

Seriously! This guy has got to quit his fucking lecturing.
posted by zombieflanders at 11:50 AM on February 16, 2017 [7 favorites]


Christ. Whoever he talked to immediately before that must have been his dealer

His dealer told him he'd give him a good price. He held up a 100 Grand Bar and said "this candy bar costs 100 grand, but I'll give you these drugs for just $95K."
posted by zachlipton at 11:50 AM on February 16, 2017 [32 favorites]


CNN: Senior admin official tells me Trump walked into the Oval Office this morning and told his top aides: "Let's do a press conference today."

"Turns out he just wanted panini sandwiches for lunch. Sorry. My bad," mumbled Meredith into the microphone, her eyes cast ever downwards.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 11:50 AM on February 16, 2017 [15 favorites]




shamelessly lifted from a NYT comments section:
"Gorsuch should not be confirmed because Trump is in the final year of his presidency. The republicans themselves set this precedent."
posted by H. Roark at 11:51 AM on February 16, 2017 [37 favorites]


Also CNN: "There was a Rodney Dangerfield quality

More of a Professor Irwin Cory, the world's foremost authority.
posted by sammyo at 11:53 AM on February 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


Sustainable hunting is something any leftist should get behind - it's part and parcel with habitat and land management - and I just don't understand why more libs don't do it.

Hunting is not necessarily synonymous with gun-owning. Some people are hunters but don't want guns in their homes. Being anti-gun doesn't mean you're anti-hunting, just anti-hunting-with-guns. (and most Americans aren't anti-gun, they're just anti- easy access to guns).
posted by melissasaurus at 11:53 AM on February 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


one nice outcome of this whole fiasco is that there will no longer be any disagreement between historians about who was the worst president of all time

I read Worst. President. Ever. a few months ago (great timing on that title, eh?) and I keep wanting to try to track down the author and see what he thinks now. I don't think I should because why make the guy more depressed, but I really wonder.
posted by jenfullmoon at 11:54 AM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


I don't understand why anybody thinks this press conference is different from any of his last billion speeches. I mean, yeah he's president now so it's inherently scarier, but to me this is what he sounded like throughout the campaign, during his speeches, during debates, all of it. It's rambling, it's full of nonsequiturs and boasting and parentheticals, it's incoherent, and it barely makes sense even in a word salad kind of way.

So, what do you all think is different about this speech compared to, say, the cadence and content of this one?
posted by zug at 11:54 AM on February 16, 2017 [6 favorites]


i can't even imagine what kind of bizarre story i'd make up that could explain any of this right now.

"POTUS got up extra early today to watch Morning Joe. Needed a pick up before the presser, so he did a few lines while Preibus wasn't watching. Hold on to your butts."
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:56 AM on February 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


The question is, is Trump's performance today helping persuade swing voters and so on to stick with him over the next three years and nine months.

Not really. He doesn't need voters for at least 12 months at this point. The real question is whether his performance will bring the people who can help him implement his agenda on side. The answer is, obviously not, it will severely damage his credibility with them.
posted by Coventry at 11:57 AM on February 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


For a long time I was confusing the term Dunning-Kruger with Dunder Mifflin and thinking people were commenting on how this was akin to an incompetently run paper company.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 11:58 AM on February 16, 2017 [16 favorites]


@JohnWDean
We face the greatest national security threat to the USA in decades: Donald Trump as president. It's long past time for GOP to check him.

---

And this was yesterday. (and yes, that John Dean.)
posted by chris24 at 11:58 AM on February 16, 2017 [26 favorites]


On the bright side that Breitbart guy who had that awkward interview with Spicy is feeling much better about himself now.
posted by scalefree at 11:59 AM on February 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


I don't understand why anybody thinks this press conference is different from any of his last billion speeches.

This sounds more like a hot take than a good faith question but I'll assume you really mean that and answer:

Yes, the delivery was expected and typical. The content was significantly worse in a lot of ways. I'm too exhausted by watching to even finish this comment. Fuck it.
posted by lazaruslong at 11:59 AM on February 16, 2017 [7 favorites]




Not really. He doesn't need voters for at least 12 months at this point. The real question is whether his performance will bring the people who can help him implement his agenda on side. The answer is, obviously not, it will severely damage his credibility with them.


i wish power-hungry-psychopath-leeches had standards for the orations of their figureheads, but those leeches with standards have already been filtered out of the depressingly scummy pool.
posted by lalochezia at 12:00 PM on February 16, 2017


Nobody remembers end-stage embarrassment to himself Winston Churchill.

Yeah we do, "The Crown" is streaming on Netflix right now. And John Lithgow deserves an Emmy.
posted by dnash at 12:01 PM on February 16, 2017 [12 favorites]


Okay, but seriously. Surely this. I mean, surely this.

There has to be one adult - nay, scratch that, not even an adult - just a Republican with a single SHRED of self-preservation left, who after watching that spectacle shat his/her pants and started looking for the emergency exits. Right? RIGHT?
posted by lydhre at 12:01 PM on February 16, 2017 [6 favorites]


Did anybody get a read on the mood of the press pool? Any signs of them finally picturing their families' faces melting off?
posted by Rust Moranis at 12:01 PM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


> The military is from what I've seen absolutely stuffed full of anti-Clinton conspiracy theorists who are most likely Trump supporters.

So I assume they're champing at the bit to get ordered to their deaths over some bullshit.
posted by The Card Cheat at 12:01 PM on February 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


Did I miss anything?
posted by Surely This at 12:02 PM on February 16, 2017 [71 favorites]


I don't understand why anybody thinks this press conference is different from any of his last billion speeches.

it's probably because they watched it and saw how different it was
posted by flatluigi at 12:02 PM on February 16, 2017 [29 favorites]


Yes, the delivery was expected and typical.

Telling the Jewish reporter to sit down was more aggressive than he usually has been as POTUS
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:02 PM on February 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


The headline they're running with at TPM is ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.
posted by peeedro at 12:03 PM on February 16, 2017 [39 favorites]


I don't understand why anybody thinks this press conference is different from any of his last billion speeches.

Well, for one, there's a Russian ship like 5 miles off the coast of Long Island and Trump talked about blowing it out of the water (something that he has the power to do, now that he's actually president).
posted by melissasaurus at 12:03 PM on February 16, 2017 [24 favorites]


Then I dreamed of beautiful plantlike aliens that spoke in music and lived in elaborate subterranean cities lit by the unearthly glow of phosphorescent fungus, which is more my dreamtime comfort zone.

So your drugs cost more than your candy bars, is what you're saying?
posted by VTX at 12:03 PM on February 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


This sounds more like a hot take than a good faith question but I'll assume you really mean that and answer


Yes, it's a genuine question. I did indeed watch about half the video, I stopped watching because it seemed like more of the same and the sound of his voice is incredibly grating to me, but maybe the second half is significantly worse than the first? Given the quotes I'm getting back methinks I need to watch the rest of it, so I'll do that and then report back.
posted by zug at 12:05 PM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


@OfficialCBC: Hi, @realDonaldTrump. We’re the CBC. We sent you a letter on January 19, but you never wrote us back. Sad!

(the CBC here being the Congressional Black Caucus, not the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation)
posted by zombieflanders at 12:05 PM on February 16, 2017 [95 favorites]


Fox news: "makes no sense at all"
posted by sammyo at 12:05 PM on February 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


So, what do you all think is different about this speech compared to, say, the cadence and content of this one?

he's president now so it's inherently scarier
posted by STFUDonnie at 12:06 PM on February 16, 2017 [5 favorites]






Just a reminder to be kind to one another.

There has been a lot of snipping and complaining at each other in this thread of late. I know things are stressful and that the political threads are rife with less-than-ideal metafilteriness.. but lets not take it out on each other.
posted by INFJ at 12:07 PM on February 16, 2017 [35 favorites]


@FullFrontalSamB: "As a random black woman in media, @ashleyn1cole is happy to set up the meeting between @POTUS & the Congressional Black Caucus."
posted by zachlipton at 12:08 PM on February 16, 2017 [26 favorites]


Fox news: "makes no sense at all"
posted by sammyo

Are you hearing FoxNews saying that? Because I see their homepage describing it as:

PRESS BEATDOWN
Trump blasts ‘out of control’ media, defends agenda, administration
posted by lazaruslong at 12:09 PM on February 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


@DVNJr
This is the longest cold opening in SNL history.
posted by chris24 at 12:09 PM on February 16, 2017 [41 favorites]


And it's not up to you to tell us all what the question really is?

Jesus Murphy, I framed my comment as a rhetorical question, not as a prescription.

Anyway, I'll restate it: who cares what Trump's base ("conservatives") think, and why they think the things they do? Why care? We know why they think the way they do: they are racist, and wish to roll back whatever achievements have been made over the past fifty or sixty years.

But they are the base. Why waste emotional and cognitive energy caring* what they think when swing voters matter, swing voters who may be turned off by all this crazy shit that's happening?

*This is a rhetorical question and not a directive.
posted by My Dad at 12:10 PM on February 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


CNN's calling it "Trump's wild press conference" which is possibly the kindest euphemism for fucking nuts I've ever seen.
posted by lydhre at 12:10 PM on February 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


Soo....Flynn didn't do anything wrong, but he fired him because Flynn lied to Pence about the not-wrong thing he did? Or didn't do?
"Don't do what Donny Don't does"...[sighs] They could have made this clearer.
posted by kirkaracha at 12:11 PM on February 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


I stopped watching because it seemed like more of the same and the sound of his voice is incredibly grating to me, but maybe the second half is significantly worse than the first?

Did you get to this point?
posted by mazola at 12:11 PM on February 16, 2017


Okay, but seriously. Surely this. I mean, surely this.

Republicans need two things to start considering removal. First they need their payoff, mainly a tax cut but whatever other ideological swag they can scarf up too. And second they need blood, a mass casualty event that can be laid at Trump's feet to serve as their shield from the hordes.
posted by scalefree at 12:11 PM on February 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


In 50,000 years when the penguins who are soon to inherit the earth from us have developed opposable flippers, they will attempt to tell the story of these times, as a warning parable to their little baby penguins, and they will get as far as the transcript of that press conference and just throw up their flippers in disgust and waddle away.
posted by Dormant Gorilla at 12:12 PM on February 16, 2017 [24 favorites]


I don't understand why anybody thinks this press conference is different from any of his last billion speeches.

Well, for one, there's a Russian ship like 5 miles off the coast of Long Island and Trump talked about blowing it out of the water (something that he has the power to do, now that he's actually president).


And this paragraph, boys and girls reading this a hundred years from now, is not exaggerated or embellished in any way.
posted by Melismata at 12:12 PM on February 16, 2017 [47 favorites]


Republicans need two things to start considering removal.

Literally, they will only do something if the people in their specific districts stop approving of Trump. It doesn't matter what Trump actually does, he could fuck all their wives and if he had 55% approval in their districts they would continue to support him.
posted by showbiz_liz at 12:13 PM on February 16, 2017 [7 favorites]




> Republicans need two things to start considering removal.

The ability to feel shame and remorse?
posted by The Card Cheat at 12:14 PM on February 16, 2017 [17 favorites]


It'll take his approval at around 35% to get the GOP to start contemplating a move. The good news? He's getting close fast.

@brianklaas
New Pew Poll:

Approval % (mid February, post-inauguration)

Trump: 39%
Obama: 64%
W. Bush: 53%
Clinton: 56%
HW Bush: 63%
Reagan: 55%
posted by chris24 at 12:15 PM on February 16, 2017 [6 favorites]


Speaking of sane adults with a sense of self-preservation...What I'd love to see (but it won't happen) is for Alex Acosta to immediately withdraw himself for consideration the Labor Sec job.

Put yourself in his shoes. The press conference was ostensibly to announce the Acosta pick. But it quickly devolved into an unhinged rant. And "unhinged" is understatement of the year.
posted by zakur at 12:16 PM on February 16, 2017 [12 favorites]


I know they're craven, I really do, but there must be one of them who thinks jettisoning ahead of the curve will be politically beneficial in the face of a president who is clearly deranged.
posted by lydhre at 12:17 PM on February 16, 2017


I'm just going to quote exactly what the President said: "We have a very talented man, Rex Tillerson, who's going to be meeting with them [Russia] shortly and I told him. I said "I know politically it's probably not good for me." The greatest thing I could do is shoot that ship that's 30 miles off shore right out of the water."

He said that within a few minutes of when he talked about how "nuclear holocaust would be like no other," which is something he learned in a briefing but it's ok for him to tell us "because anybody that ever read the most basic book can say it."

We're in a very different league from discussing the size of one's dick on TV.
posted by zachlipton at 12:17 PM on February 16, 2017 [36 favorites]


I don't understand why anybody thinks this press conference is different from any of his last billion speeches.

It's not different. What matters is that he is now in a completely different position as the leader of the USA. He has been granted power by the people of our country. He is the outward facing image of the USA to all the other countries of this Earth.

It's easy to laugh off or dismiss a man who has no power that money can't directly buy him. It's a lot harder to do the same when that man now has nuclear codes and other Executive powers.

The PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES JUST SAID A LOT OF INCOMPREHENSIBLE THINGS. This is different then "joke-of-a-man-who-might-possibly-become-president-if-he-manages-to-convince-enough-idiots-to-vote-for-him just said a lot of stupid stuff"
posted by INFJ at 12:18 PM on February 16, 2017 [13 favorites]


It's a problem with the action genre. Some of it is also because guys aren't suppose to like chick flicks. They're not going to go to their buddies and be like: "Hey, I saw La La Land and it was the shit, you should go see it." no, instead they went and seen John Wick 2.. because many many gun deaths. Because it's the manly thing to like.

-Men! We like stories, right?
-Right!
-But they have to be good stories. Stories with plots in which there are good guys and bad guys, and then some explosions happen to them!

posted by UbuRoivas at 12:19 PM on February 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


In fairness, he seemed to have been saying that the whole country would love it if he blew the Russian ship out of the water, but he won't because it is a positive thing to get along with Russia.

But.....that's not how the President is supposed to talk. It isn't done. World leaders don't casually threaten war to try to make a point.
posted by thelonius at 12:19 PM on February 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


There has to be one adult - nay, scratch that, not even an adult - just a Republican with a single SHRED of self-preservation left, who after watching that spectacle shat his/her pants and started looking for the emergency exits. Right? RIGHT?

They just won. They're winning. The electorate has the collective memory of a goldfish. If they want to distance themselves it'll be six months out from the election. Right now, the GOP couldn't care so long as SCROTUS can work a pen.
posted by Talez at 12:19 PM on February 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


PRESS BEATDOWN
Trump blasts ‘out of control’ media, defends agenda, administration


And that Fox News' headline is a model of restraint compared to the jubilation among the Kool Aid-drinkers at The_Donald. They're cheering like mouth-breathing fans at a "professional wrestling" event, which, to be fair, is one venue where Trump learned his crowd-wrangling skills.

I'm ready to wage ready money that Saturday's rally will be even crazier, though.
posted by Doktor Zed at 12:19 PM on February 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


MyDad, great, thanks for re-stating. I'll answer in more detail as to why that's a shitty framing, then.

who cares what Trump's base ("conservatives") think, and why they think the things they do? Why care?


For a lot of people that may be more directly in danger from Trump's base, figuring out what they think and why is a critical step to protecting themselves / families / jobs / rights / lives and so on. It's useful to know the mind of an enemy in order to bolster defenses and predict when / how they will lash out.

Also, for a lot of people that don't agree 100% with your thinking re: strategy, figuring out what conservatives think and why is critical for success with progressive agendas in a lot of different ways. Could be trying to siphon off the % between base crazy-level and dupes. Could be recon to figure out how to implement new messaging strategies for progressive values. And so on.

You're welcome to your opinion of course, but when you (and let's be real, this isn't the first time) drop in with a "Who cares? Why waste your energy on [X}?" it comes across as lecturing / condescending / dismissive and really drowns out the opinion part. It makes your attempt to communicate your ideas much less effective, and if that's important to you, I recommend you leave out the other stuff.
posted by lazaruslong at 12:19 PM on February 16, 2017 [24 favorites]


Samantha Bee: "I guess I'm the president. - The President"
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:19 PM on February 16, 2017 [9 favorites]


Live blogging press conferences isn't the problem, it's just posting context-free quotes and reactions. Have some pity on the mods who have to manage a queue full of "noise" flags, and those of us trying to discern [real] from [fake] in these awful times.

It's obvious which of these three made-up comments is helpful for people following along at home, and which are just confusing/noisy:

wow did he really just say that?
posted by abc


He thinks all black people know each other!!!
posted by xyz


A reporter just asked if Trump would talk to the Congressional Black Caucus about urban policy. He said "Are you going to set up the meeting? Do you know each other?" Because the reporter is black. WTF!
posted by def


Thanks for blogging for those of us who can't watch! :o)
posted by Emily's Fist at 12:19 PM on February 16, 2017 [26 favorites]


Literally, they will only do something if the people in their specific districts stop approving of Trump. It doesn't matter what Trump actually does, he could fuck all their wives and if he had 55% approval in their districts they would continue to support him.

Even that strikes me as optimistic. When this crew sees that electoral tides are turning against them, their instinct is to make sure the people who don't like them can't vote.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 12:20 PM on February 16, 2017 [13 favorites]


It doesn't matter what Trump actually does, he could fuck all their wives and if he had 55% approval in their districts they would continue to support him.

The new Pew poll says 86% of republicans favor a return of jus primae noctis. (fake)
posted by peeedro at 12:20 PM on February 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


When I wrote for a comedy group we had a sketch called "Success Through Power Lying."

"It would be a lie to say that people like me. But it's a power lie to say I'm the most popular person in the Milky Way solar system and I'm nearly sixty percent fungus free." [Holds up a sign saying: 60%]
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 12:21 PM on February 16, 2017 [10 favorites]


But.....that's not how the President is supposed to talk. It isn't done.

The 'sainted' Ronald Reagan had his 'we begin bombing in 5 minutes' doing nuke-war as a mic check comedy bit.
posted by rough ashlar at 12:21 PM on February 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


God, reading the transcript back, and that nice Jewish reporter says to Trump, "We understand that you have Jewish grandchildren - you are their zayde."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:22 PM on February 16, 2017 [8 favorites]


Fox news: "makes no sense at all"
posted by sammyo

Are you hearing FoxNews saying that?


Exactly as I heard it. It was about one specific exchange, but the anchor (Cavuto?) was not being complimentary at all.
posted by sammyo at 12:22 PM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


CNN's calling it "Trump's wild press conference" which is possibly the kindest euphemism for fucking nuts I've ever seen.

I want to get off Mr. Trump's wild press conference.
posted by Emily's Fist at 12:24 PM on February 16, 2017 [30 favorites]


And again, it's frustrating to watch the press minimize how bad it is. Current Boston Globe headline is "In briefing, frustrated Trump slams Democrats, leaks, media". I suppose they have to be careful, but the more we downplay the problem the longer it will take for people to realize how crazy he really is.
posted by Melismata at 12:25 PM on February 16, 2017 [13 favorites]


Bless the White House staff member who put the words "War with Russia would lead to a Nuclear Holocaust like no other" on a single sheet of paper above a big screaming skull so Trump could look at it and nod thoughtfully this morning

"Not enough flames."
posted by Etrigan at 12:25 PM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


Shepard Smith: "this president is not telling truth"
posted by sammyo at 12:25 PM on February 16, 2017 [16 favorites]


While the President gave his press conference, members of the Hispanic Caucus were excluded from a meeting with Immigration and Customs Enforcement about the recent deportations and raids.

Rep. Norma Torres, "Waiting outside @ICEgov mtg w/ House leadership b/c they refuse to meet w/ @HispanicCaucus members."
posted by gladly at 12:26 PM on February 16, 2017 [38 favorites]


"You know what uranium is, right? This thing called nuclear weapons like lots of things are done with uranium including some bad things."

WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE.
posted by jenfullmoon at 12:26 PM on February 16, 2017 [8 favorites]


Smith was apologetic about pointing it out but is talking about the lies.
posted by sammyo at 12:27 PM on February 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


While the President gave his press conference, members of the Hispanic Caucus were excluded from a meeting with Immigration and Customs Enforcement about the recent deportations and raids.

Kind of serious question: can members of Congress sue the government for racial discrimination on the job?
posted by zachlipton at 12:29 PM on February 16, 2017 [18 favorites]


The 'sainted' Ronald Reagan had his 'we begin bombing in 5 minutes' doing nuke-war as a mic check comedy bit.

And everyone rightly lost their shit. Except Bootsy.
posted by thelonius at 12:30 PM on February 16, 2017 [7 favorites]


Meanwhile, back in the world of Make Stanley Kubrick Great Again, Trump advisor Michael Anton seems to indulge heavily the the Strangelovian fantasy of living in a nuclear bunker with a ratio of ten women to every man.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 12:31 PM on February 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


Am I the only one who cannot go through that WaPo transcript without getting literally nauseous with anxiety?
posted by corb at 12:32 PM on February 16, 2017 [34 favorites]


Am I the only one who cannot go through that WaPo transcript without getting literally nauseous with anxiety?

You are absolutely not the only one.
posted by Dormant Gorilla at 12:34 PM on February 16, 2017 [32 favorites]


Am I the only one who cannot go through that WaPo transcript without getting literally nauseous with anxiety?

I don't get nauseous. I just that cringey feeling like when I'm watching Ross being a complete dipshit on Friends.
posted by Talez at 12:35 PM on February 16, 2017 [7 favorites]


New York Times has a full transcript of the crazy up now
posted by aiglet at 12:37 PM on February 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


PIVOT! PIVOT! PIVOOOOOOOOOOOTTTTTTT!
posted by a fiendish thingy at 12:37 PM on February 16, 2017 [10 favorites]


Someone named Mikki the Mime has filed a lawsuit against the president. Just in case you needed some humor today.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:39 PM on February 16, 2017


I'm trying to keep in mind that he's not our President. He's our enemy. He is in fact the enemy of all life on earth. As such, instead of being scandalized by his antics, we should analyze this event in terms of what tactical wins we can get.

If you're represented by any Republicans, please give them a call right now. Talking points: severe mental illness, dangerous incompetence, immediate impeachment. Quote FOX News personalities when possible — what exactly did Neil Cavuto say about this shitshow? If we can get a transcript, that might be a useful thing to cite. And aggressively flash whatever conservative credentials/cultural signifiers you can — describe your military service if possible, talk about your Christianity if you're a Christian, mention Republicans you've voted for, whatever. If you're in a Republican-represented district, you almost certainly know better how to sound solidly Republican than this East Bay commie does.

I'm trying (and failing) to get through to Feinstein and Harris right now, but this was bad enough to maybe peel off Republicans, and Republicans are, god save us, the ones that matter at this moment. If you're represented by any, give 'em a call.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 12:40 PM on February 16, 2017 [52 favorites]


Having sat through all of that, I must now shit on everything that moves.
posted by delfin at 12:41 PM on February 16, 2017 [6 favorites]


Pray tomorrow gets me higher.
posted by Talez at 12:42 PM on February 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


I don't know if it would help anyone else to have that breathless dread of the precipice encapsulated in a poem, but here's one I've been thinking about a lot since the election.
Part of Eve’s Discussion
  by Marie Howe

It was like the moment when a bird decides not to eat from your hand,
and flies, just before it flies, the moment the rivers seem to still
and stop because a storm is coming, but there is no storm, as when
a hundred starlings lift and bank together before they wheel and drop,
very much like the moment, driving on bad ice, when it occurs to you
your car could spin, just before it slowly begins to spin, like
the moment just before you forgot what it was you were about to say,
it was like that, and after that, it was still like that, only
all the time.
posted by foxfirefey at 12:42 PM on February 16, 2017 [51 favorites]


I'm trying to keep in mind that he's not our President. He's our enemy.

He's both. That's what adds to the fear.
posted by INFJ at 12:44 PM on February 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


Am I the only one who cannot go through that WaPo transcript without getting literally nauseous with anxiety?

i walked away from this thread and drove to my therapist's office and she talked me down from a full blown panic attack

i had an appointment scheduled which was fortunate timing
posted by murphy slaw at 12:46 PM on February 16, 2017 [33 favorites]


My visceral reaction to his crap has actually attenuated with repeated viewings/readings/etc. Not because it's becoming normalized to me, but I believe I've learned to parse it in a way that distills his rants/rhetoric to its base intent. And it's all the same, it doesn't change. Basically, the president has become, not surprisingly, a totally predictable blather machine. His ignorance will be ever thus, despite the topic. His small-mindedness will always be on display, no matter the rant. His utter lack of empathy will always color everything he says.

It's all the same. Because he's such a pathetic excuse for a human being, and so banal, so...I don't know...so not-embodying of any of the characteristics that make for a cognitively interesting person.

Don't get me wrong: still utterly terrifying, under the circumstances. But not surprising to me anymore. So not quite as many terror triggers anymore. Thank goodness. Makes it easier to focus on unseating that chump and his minions.
posted by Brak at 12:46 PM on February 16, 2017 [11 favorites]


New York Times has a full transcript of the crazy up now

As of this posting it's not a full transcript yet. Right now it ends at the point at which Trump is looking for a friendly reporter.
posted by jedicus at 12:50 PM on February 16, 2017


so not-embodying of any of the characteristics that make for a cognitively interesting person

He is the LEAST INTERESTING man in the WORLD.

and there is not enough dos equis anywhere to deal with it
posted by murphy slaw at 12:50 PM on February 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


> He is the LEAST INTERESTING man in the WORLD.

he sidles up to a nice luekwarm glass of RC Cola and regales you with stories about "that weird dream he had" last night
posted by Tevin at 12:52 PM on February 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


US customs is revoking Muslim American travelers' Global Entry cards, lawyers say: A spate of Muslim travelers in the United States, both American citizens and green card holders, have claimed U.S. Customs and Border Protection revoked their Global Entry cards, several immigration lawyers said in interviews with Mic.

Global Entry is a program run by the Transportation Security Administration that provides expedited entry through customs checkpoints at U.S. airports to vetted travelers.

posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:52 PM on February 16, 2017 [19 favorites]


I missed the live feed, so I'm watching the taped version now. It appears to be really and for real preceded by an hour long audio that appears to be a highlight reel from the campaign.

W the actual F.
posted by susiswimmer at 12:52 PM on February 16, 2017


I chose the wrong year to wake from a coma.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 12:53 PM on February 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


Hi everyone! I took some time off from the thread to actually do work and also for my mental health.

I have a vague sense I missed something important though.
posted by nubs at 12:53 PM on February 16, 2017 [8 favorites]


Sustainable hunting is something any leftist should get behind - it's part and parcel with habitat and land management - and I just don't understand why more libs don't do it.

Hard to do when you live in the city.
posted by srboisvert at 12:53 PM on February 16, 2017 [6 favorites]


"that weird dream he had" last night"

i actually think that when he dreams he just dreams about having a regular day as donald trump. every time.
posted by murphy slaw at 12:53 PM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


Hard to do when you live in the city.

Squirrel is delicious.
posted by peeedro at 12:54 PM on February 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


Trump used the word "very" nearly 100 times. He used "very, very" eleven times, including twice referring to "very, very classified information" (Not sure where that falls within the U.S. info classification system). This passage struck me as particularly repetitive.
If Russia and the United States actually got together and got along -- and don't forget, we're a very powerful nuclear country and so are they. There's no up-side. We're a very powerful nuclear country and so are they. I have been briefed. And I can tell you one thing about a briefing that we're allowed to say because anybody that ever read the most basic book can say it, nuclear holocaust would be like no other. They're a very powerful nuclear country and so are we. If we have a good relationship with Russia, believe me, that's a good thing, not a bad thing.
posted by zakur at 12:54 PM on February 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


Hi everyone! I took some time off from the thread to actually do work and also for my mental health. I have a vague sense I missed something important though.

Turn around and run. This place is not a place of honor. No highly esteemed deed is commemorated here.
posted by zachlipton at 12:55 PM on February 16, 2017 [61 favorites]


This thread's gonna blow if Trump does anything else newsworthy today. Someone should make a new one.
posted by Coventry at 12:55 PM on February 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


One Republican Senator texted to CNN: The President should be doing this with a therapist, not on live TV.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:55 PM on February 16, 2017 [17 favorites]


nah nothing at all nubs.
posted by INFJ at 12:55 PM on February 16, 2017


Hard to do when you live in the city.

People with terriers go rat hunting in NYC, if that counts?

Interesting tidbit I never knew: terriers were historically bred as ratters. They go crazy when they see rodents and just want to kill them.
posted by UbuRoivas at 12:56 PM on February 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


Only tangentially related to this apparently very bizarre press conference, but Miss Manners has been monitoring late-breaking developments in the field of etiquette and is now proposing a set of "alternate virtues" for the current era.
posted by tobascodagama at 12:57 PM on February 16, 2017 [7 favorites]


anybody that ever read the most basic book can say it, nuclear holocaust would be like no other.

See spot.

See spot run.

See spot run too slow to outrun the shockwave.

See spot vaporized.
posted by dis_integration at 12:57 PM on February 16, 2017 [7 favorites]


I'm about 700 comments behind but I would just like to say that the point when he asked the reporter if she could set up a meeting with the Congressional Black Caucus, after telling her condescendingly that her question was "professional," was the point where I could no longer maintain Silent Scream and moved on to Teaching My Toddlers New Words.

I'm not going to say "surely this" about a country where apparently you can teach Republicans to love Putin in the span of a few months. I'm just going to say, if not this, then I FUCKING GIVE UP.
posted by gerstle at 12:59 PM on February 16, 2017 [25 favorites]


Meanwhile, back in the world of Make Stanley Kubrick Great Again, Trump advisor Michael Anton seems to indulge heavily the the Strangelovian fantasy of living in a nuclear bunker with a ratio of ten women to every man.

OMG, this guy's lunacy was on Styleforum!!! I've bought shoes on Styleforum!
posted by Frowner at 1:00 PM on February 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


NPR: [annotated] Transcript And Analysis: Trump Press Conference On Labor Secretary, Russia

In any other situation, I'd applaud the time and energy that they've put into fact checking this mess. After all, this is NPR, they're very serious after all, very serious news, not fake at all. But while they're bending over backwards to normalize this situation, they're completely missing that the world's on fire.
posted by vverse23 at 1:00 PM on February 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


New thread with homages to Sam Bee and Spicey.
posted by Talez at 1:00 PM on February 16, 2017 [19 favorites]


Thanks, Talez!
posted by Coventry at 1:01 PM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


We're a very powerful nuclear country and so are they. I have been briefed. And I can tell you one thing about a briefing that we're allowed to say because anybody that ever read the most basic book can say it, nuclear holocaust would be like no other

I take it from this that he's briefing at about a fifth grade level?
posted by nubs at 1:01 PM on February 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


Just had a work meeting. News of the presser has gotten around the building already. I think the words my boss (Air Force veteran) used were "fucking crazy."
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:02 PM on February 16, 2017 [7 favorites]


This thread's gonna blow if...

This thread already blows. Actually, I've seen that information around.
posted by notyou at 1:03 PM on February 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


In any other situation, I'd applaud the time and energy that they've put into fact checking this mess. After all, this is NPR, they're very serious after all, very serious news, not fake at all. But while they're bending over backwards to normalize this situation, they're completely missing that the world's on fire.

Yep. If there's a naked man standing in the middle of the freeway screaming that the moon is made of cheese, you don't spend your time talking about that's not true because scientists have analyzed moon rocks and used radiotelescopes and whatever; you get him immediate help before he gets run and hurts himself and others around him.
posted by zachlipton at 1:04 PM on February 16, 2017 [12 favorites]


literally nauseous with anxiety

i call this "being alive in 2017"
posted by poffin boffin at 1:05 PM on February 16, 2017 [29 favorites]


One Republican Senator texted to CNN: The President should be doing this with a therapist, not on live TV.

Worse than impeachment for Trump, by far, would be Congress not impeaching on the condition that he visits a therapist weekly and she reports ongoing progress.
posted by jason_steakums at 1:06 PM on February 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


>> Hard to do when you live in the city.

> Squirrel is delicious.


I'm surrounded by superfund sites and dirty-ass freeways on every side. Although the squirrels, rats, and raccoons around me seem fat and healthy, I'm pretty sure they're made of pure cancer.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 1:08 PM on February 16, 2017 [9 favorites]


I can tell Trump is getting under my skin whenever I start gazing out our big window at the yard of the Trump supporter behind our apartment. I talked myself down from the obscene Christmas lights. Now I just want to scare the shit out of them. Like if it weren't for my SO and my general liking of life, I'd like to die and haunt them for the rest of their lives. Like pull some twisted poltergeist shit where every single time they look into the mirror they imagine they see pieces of their faces falling off.

I almost wrote, *and I'd somehow terrorize so that they were incapable of having another orgasm for the course their miserable lives* and I was all naw that's too far.
posted by angrycat at 1:08 PM on February 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


i hope every time they poop it turns into a cactus halfway out.
posted by poffin boffin at 1:12 PM on February 16, 2017 [26 favorites]


god though. Ever since reading that transcript I've been imagining the sudden bright flash and then nothing so much it feels more like a memory.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 1:12 PM on February 16, 2017 [10 favorites]


poffin boffin is the best at insults. BOFFIN 2020!
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:18 PM on February 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


New York Times has a full transcript of the crazy up now

Christ, he fails the damn Turing Test. A college undergrad with one AI class could write a chat-bot that imitated human speech better than he can.
posted by octothorpe at 1:19 PM on February 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


See spot.

See spot run.

See spot run too slow to outrun the shockwave.

See spot vaporized.


See spot's shadow on the wall.

This is the spot where spot once stood.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 1:20 PM on February 16, 2017 [16 favorites]


NEW THREAD!

The current thread is not a place of honor!

NEW THREAD!

The new thread IS a place of honor!
posted by miguelcervantes at 1:24 PM on February 16, 2017 [9 favorites]


Fun project: rewrite the transcript substituting the truth for lies where applicable (in other words, almost everywhere) and color the new parts on an orange => red => purple color continuum based on the extent of the lie. For extra points, color truthful exaggerations US dollar green.
posted by morspin at 1:25 PM on February 16, 2017


Ever since reading that transcript I've been imagining the sudden bright flash and then nothing so much it feels more like a memory.

I was doing laundry this morning and started evaluating my (fully underground) basement for the best location to build an impromptu, probably-not-at-all-effective bomb shelter.

Which begs the question, why would I want my family to live through it?
posted by anastasiav at 1:27 PM on February 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


But Trump is a straight-up gibbering buffoon who just spend a whole press conference whining like a petulant, incoherent child. HOW DO THEY SEE WHAT DO THEY SEE?

Because at least in my neck of the woods, many of them are like that themselves -- their model of manly success is incoherent, aggressively unstudied ("street smarts, not book smarts, poindexter"), self-involved, juvenile irrational over-emotional complaining.
posted by FelliniBlank at 1:28 PM on February 16, 2017 [7 favorites]


> Which begs the question, why would I want my family to live through it?
posted by anastasiav at 1:27 PM on February 16 [+] [!]


Look, someone's got to roam the postapocalyptic hellscape killing nazis. Why not you?
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 1:29 PM on February 16, 2017 [9 favorites]


You guys joke, but I honestly think that if surviving a nuclear attack is possible, humanity (including my family) should struggle as hard as possible to live, just in case it's possible for humanity to re-establish a stable existence.

(Also there's a new thread)
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 1:32 PM on February 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


i just want to use a railway rifle on a giant molerat at least once before i die of radiation poisoning ok
posted by entropicamericana at 1:34 PM on February 16, 2017 [9 favorites]


I have thoughts about the similarities between Richard Spencer and a giant molerat, but I'll keep them to myself until after the bombs drop.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 1:40 PM on February 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


Look, someone's got to roam the postapocalyptic hellscape killing nazis. Why not you?

True, but we don't own a firearm or a cricket bat.
posted by anastasiav at 1:51 PM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


Can we make notaplaceofhonor the new catch-all tag for SCROTUS threads?
posted by Fish, fish, are you doing your duty? at 1:55 PM on February 16, 2017 [10 favorites]


Did we just set a record for shortest time between threads?
posted by diogenes at 1:57 PM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


We Are Only One Menstrual Cycle in and There Is Blood in the Water. Please join us over there, even though that isn't a place of honor either.
posted by RedOrGreen at 2:01 PM on February 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


lets not take it out on each other.
posted by INFJ at 2:07 PM on February 16


You might even say, "We are stronger together."
posted by InsertNiftyNameHere at 2:11 PM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


You know how sometimes you go to the bathroom and it seems like a normal thing but then something starts to go wrong. Maybe it's an incomplete wipe, maybe the toilet paper is cheap 1-ply, but somehow, out of nowhere, bad stuff is just EVERYWHERE. So you're trying to clean it off and it gets on your hands, and then on the seat, and then it's on your shirt and the wall for some insane reason and you clean and you clean but nothing gets any better. Then you're just standing there realizing that you are now completely and totally covered in shit and you have no idea how to fix it.

Yeah. That's how I feel about this country now.
posted by teleri025 at 2:13 PM on February 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


He could rip all his clothes off in public, rend his skin and shout "CTHULHU FTAGN!" and the mainstream (right wing) press would still depict it as a vigorous speech, incisive, like no other.
posted by bad grammar at 2:29 PM on February 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


hp lovecraft is well above his reading level.

also I think he'd find lovecraft insufficiently racist to hold his attention anyway.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 2:31 PM on February 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


"I RESIGN, SAN DIEGO"
posted by Artw at 2:36 PM on February 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


CNN's calling it "Trump's wild press conference" which is possibly the kindest euphemism for fucking nuts I've ever seen.

The allusion's to Mr. Toad's wild ride, right? So, the extremely reckless and incompetent adventure of a simple-minded very wealthy reptile. Fits, more or less.
posted by bertran at 7:28 PM on February 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


And spoiler alert for a 60+ year old amusement park ride...but it takes you to hell.
posted by mmascolino at 8:57 PM on February 16, 2017


He sounds exhausted. Or medicated. Or maybe it’s just his version of trying to sound presidential.

Well, it's common knowledge that Nixon spent most of his presidency drugged to the eyeballs, and it's plausible that other presidents have been similarly heavily medicated, by themselves or their handlers (Bush II, for one), so the “presidential” style of delivery could be synonymous with “medicated”.
posted by acb at 3:40 AM on February 17, 2017


Remember when "Fool me once, shame on...shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again" was taken as a sign that the President wasn't all that sharp?

Those were good times, huh?


Remember when the Nobel committee gave the newly-elected Obama the Peace Prize for not being George W. Bush?

Perhaps they should retroactively give W. the Nobel for not having been Trump.
posted by acb at 4:06 AM on February 17, 2017 [7 favorites]


one nice outcome of this whole fiasco is that there will no longer be any disagreement between historians about who was the worst president of all time

Is Trump definitely worse than Harding? Given that Harding stands to blame for the Great Depression's severity, and thus indirectly was probably instrumental in the rise of Hitler and WW2, that is a horrifying thought.
posted by acb at 4:10 AM on February 17, 2017 [1 favorite]


The 'sainted' Ronald Reagan had his 'we begin bombing in 5 minutes' doing nuke-war as a mic check comedy bit.

Truly the PewDiePie of the broadcast age.
posted by acb at 4:11 AM on February 17, 2017


People with terriers go rat hunting in NYC, if that counts?

Is it some sort of hipster thing? Do they wear vintage English fox-hunting costumes and moustache wax and say “tally ho!” a lot?
posted by acb at 4:17 AM on February 17, 2017 [2 favorites]


Tiny Trump
posted by coffee and minarets at 6:52 AM on February 17, 2017 [5 favorites]


Oh no tiny trump creeps me the fuck out for some reason.
posted by Tarumba at 7:09 AM on February 17, 2017 [1 favorite]


Ugh, Tiny Trump.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:43 AM on February 17, 2017


Given that Harding stands to blame for the Great Depression's severity, and thus indirectly was probably instrumental in the rise of Hitler and WW2, that is a horrifying thought.

Are you sure you're not thinking of Hoover? Harding had been dead for six years before the Great Depression started, and while a lot of it was the result of Harding's bad policies and leadership, I'd say that being two presidencies removed from it takes some of the blame away.

Trump, though, is doing it all himself.
posted by Etrigan at 7:52 AM on February 17, 2017 [1 favorite]


Haha. Tiny Trump. My college roommate and I had this thing where we'd get high and make up stories about pint-sized imps that came up to about your knee and were mean as fuck. Just vicious and relentless. Tiny Trump is what happens when you put one of those bastards in an orange toupee and a suit.
posted by notyou at 1:35 PM on February 17, 2017 [5 favorites]


Notyou, are you Terry pratchetts old roommate? Cause dude, I love those Wee Free Men. 🙌
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 9:38 AM on February 19, 2017 [3 favorites]


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