"We were work proximity associates."
February 21, 2017 5:46 AM Subscribe
How To Keep A Healthy Distance From Your Terrible Co-Workers - in which Dante Jordan sets out a case for avoiding interaction with one's colleagues at any and all cost.
The “Are We Done Here?” Stare
I need to practice this, because literally right as I was trying to read this the colleague who drives me to the point of absolute fucking gibbering insanity started telling me some dull anecdote and I had to look at her and nod and smile while thinking "shutupshutupshutup" as I always do. We share a bloody office so there's no escape from her imbecilic witterings and I'm constantly in fear of snapping and murdering her with a stapler. Learning some helpful deflection techniques may in fact save her life so thanks for the post!!1
posted by billiebee at 6:14 AM on February 21, 2017 [7 favorites]
I need to practice this, because literally right as I was trying to read this the colleague who drives me to the point of absolute fucking gibbering insanity started telling me some dull anecdote and I had to look at her and nod and smile while thinking "shutupshutupshutup" as I always do. We share a bloody office so there's no escape from her imbecilic witterings and I'm constantly in fear of snapping and murdering her with a stapler. Learning some helpful deflection techniques may in fact save her life so thanks for the post!!1
posted by billiebee at 6:14 AM on February 21, 2017 [7 favorites]
Words to live by.
posted by shoesietart at 6:15 AM on February 21, 2017
posted by shoesietart at 6:15 AM on February 21, 2017
The easy way is to move to the UK. I've been in my job 6 months and have no idea if my co-workers are married or have kids, or what they do on the weekends. No one shares anything personal whatsoever.
I'm also in the UK and I unfortunately (BECAUSE I DON'T CARE) know more about my colleagues than my siblings so YMMV.
posted by billiebee at 6:15 AM on February 21, 2017 [6 favorites]
I'm also in the UK and I unfortunately (BECAUSE I DON'T CARE) know more about my colleagues than my siblings so YMMV.
posted by billiebee at 6:15 AM on February 21, 2017 [6 favorites]
oh god. hard and fast rule that i don't become social media friends with people i work with. there are boundaries i will not cross.
posted by entropone at 6:16 AM on February 21, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by entropone at 6:16 AM on February 21, 2017 [9 favorites]
I'm guessing if the company downsizes, ol' Dante will be the first one shown the door. Actively developing a reputation as an asshole is not a great career move.
posted by SPrintF at 6:21 AM on February 21, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by SPrintF at 6:21 AM on February 21, 2017 [10 favorites]
There's something to keeping a healthy distance and not making friends with people at work, but I've gotten fired a few times for not being adequately bubbly and sociable with terrible coworkers.
posted by bile and syntax at 6:23 AM on February 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by bile and syntax at 6:23 AM on February 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
I became a strong advocate of the "don't become social media friends with people I work with." Three exceptions:
posted by MrGuilt at 6:25 AM on February 21, 2017 [16 favorites]
- There are a few folks who I friends back when Facebook/Twitter/etc. where new and any followers were nice. They are now grandfathered in.
- I "connect" with professional colleagues on LinkedIn quite promiscuously. That's what it's there fore.
- A select few people who I have developed a comfort level with who I may do something outside of work with, and social media provides some benefit. They are generally outside of my direct chain of command. (Yes, I did break one of the rules there, having workplace friends in the first place)
posted by MrGuilt at 6:25 AM on February 21, 2017 [16 favorites]
There's a real difference between becoming friends with people and being nice to them. I don't like a lot of my coworkers. I don't dislike them, either. Mostly, they're people I'm pleasant to and who are pleasant to me so we can get our work done efficiently and with as little drama as possible. It's not hard to be vague about your life's details and still concentrate on work.
posted by xingcat at 6:25 AM on February 21, 2017 [33 favorites]
posted by xingcat at 6:25 AM on February 21, 2017 [33 favorites]
I like most of my co-workers quite a bit. I do follow the "no external social media" rule but they're mostly pretty interesting people and generally lefty/liberal politically and we share dumb memes and anti-trump stuff on the company Slack channels. I do have to deal with them for forty hours a week so I'd be pretty miserable if I didn't get along with them.
posted by octothorpe at 6:32 AM on February 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 6:32 AM on February 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
some of this has merit, but I agree with the comments on the artcle.. this has a strong chance of shooting you in the foot as well.
Toxic people are shit, and you probably don't want anything from them.. unfortunately your workplace is not an isolated bubble. Depending on your field and place of residence, there's a nice likely hood that the interviewer of the next job knows someone at your current place. If that's the case, you want to be known and remembered positively. Not as an asshole.
People do a lot of moaning and complaining about how they hate small talk and how it's annoying and how they don't care..
They don't care that you don't care. Your opinion isn't really valued in small talk. They care that you listened and pretended to care. They cared that you gave them the time of day.
I know it's infuriating to talk to people who have opinions you think are wrong. It's a drain on your sanity. Do you want a raise? Or perhaps a glowing recommendation for your next job? Tough it out. (but get into a new situation ASAP)
You have to play the game. You might not like the rules, or find the game very enjoyable, but you still have to play it. Otherwise you're just fucking yourself over.
posted by INFJ at 6:35 AM on February 21, 2017 [15 favorites]
Toxic people are shit, and you probably don't want anything from them.. unfortunately your workplace is not an isolated bubble. Depending on your field and place of residence, there's a nice likely hood that the interviewer of the next job knows someone at your current place. If that's the case, you want to be known and remembered positively. Not as an asshole.
People do a lot of moaning and complaining about how they hate small talk and how it's annoying and how they don't care..
They don't care that you don't care. Your opinion isn't really valued in small talk. They care that you listened and pretended to care. They cared that you gave them the time of day.
I know it's infuriating to talk to people who have opinions you think are wrong. It's a drain on your sanity. Do you want a raise? Or perhaps a glowing recommendation for your next job? Tough it out. (but get into a new situation ASAP)
You have to play the game. You might not like the rules, or find the game very enjoyable, but you still have to play it. Otherwise you're just fucking yourself over.
posted by INFJ at 6:35 AM on February 21, 2017 [15 favorites]
Most of this is terrible, terrible advice -- and a good way to guarantee being among the first to be laid off if the company cuts back.
posted by Annabelle74 at 6:36 AM on February 21, 2017 [23 favorites]
posted by Annabelle74 at 6:36 AM on February 21, 2017 [23 favorites]
Agreed to all the above. You gotta play the game, and make it work for you. Having at-least-cordial relationships with co-workers can be a lifesaver, especially when you do need comrades to laugh/complain with.
And as a millennial (ugh) social media user, my personal rule of thumb is: Instagram is public and I will follow co-workers; Facebook + stringent privacy settings = where I bitch about you all.
posted by Zephyrial at 6:39 AM on February 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
And as a millennial (ugh) social media user, my personal rule of thumb is: Instagram is public and I will follow co-workers; Facebook + stringent privacy settings = where I bitch about you all.
posted by Zephyrial at 6:39 AM on February 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
Huh. I'm friendly with my co-workers, and I'm good friends with a few of them. It's not perfect: it means I have to put some extra work into avoiding office drama, and that has meant downgrading a couple of people from "friends" to "friendly co-workers." But there's no reason not to be friendly with co-workers. You don't have to go out for drinks, but be pleasant. And honestly, they don't really want to know what you did this weekend. Just say something vague and not-rude, and you'll be fine.
Also, what kind of asshole asks their co-workers who they voted for?
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:41 AM on February 21, 2017 [14 favorites]
Also, what kind of asshole asks their co-workers who they voted for?
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:41 AM on February 21, 2017 [14 favorites]
Mostly, they're people I'm pleasant to and who are pleasant to me so we can get our work done efficiently and with as little drama as possible.
Indeed. And with this comes the benefit that when you DO fuck up, they might cover for you, because we're all in this together, like a chain gang making a run for it. If you've already self-identified as the office asshole, you're an easy scapegoat.
Don't build that wall. Show signs of interest, while not engaging in actual interest.
posted by Capt. Renault at 6:42 AM on February 21, 2017 [5 favorites]
Indeed. And with this comes the benefit that when you DO fuck up, they might cover for you, because we're all in this together, like a chain gang making a run for it. If you've already self-identified as the office asshole, you're an easy scapegoat.
Don't build that wall. Show signs of interest, while not engaging in actual interest.
posted by Capt. Renault at 6:42 AM on February 21, 2017 [5 favorites]
I do not Facebook friend co-workers.
Once they stop being co-workers, however, and I like them as people, fair game.
posted by SansPoint at 6:43 AM on February 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
Once they stop being co-workers, however, and I like them as people, fair game.
posted by SansPoint at 6:43 AM on February 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
I'm Facebook friends with co-workers, but 95% of what I do on Facebook is like people's baby and dog pictures. Twitter is where I do my real ranting, and none of my co-workers know about my Twitter account.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:44 AM on February 21, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:44 AM on February 21, 2017 [5 favorites]
I've been lucky to end up in a contract position where I genuinely like and respect my coworkers. This is the kinds of job where the only negative thing I can say about my coworkers is that one of them mispronounces the word "processes" on the regular. With some small exceptions (I follow my boss's bands Facebook because they're a good band), I avoid them on social media, because that feels like crossing a line.
At my previous job, however, one of my coworkers would walk into my office without knocking, take things from my desk when I'd stepped out for lunch, and didn't get the non-verbal boundaries I was setting. I almost kind of wish I'd had some of these techniques for dealing with her.
posted by pxe2000 at 6:45 AM on February 21, 2017
At my previous job, however, one of my coworkers would walk into my office without knocking, take things from my desk when I'd stepped out for lunch, and didn't get the non-verbal boundaries I was setting. I almost kind of wish I'd had some of these techniques for dealing with her.
posted by pxe2000 at 6:45 AM on February 21, 2017
I like my coworkers. Some of my former coworkers (and at least a couple of clients) have become some of my closest friends. I have a pretty hard policy of not working for close friends (or taking a job with close friends, volunteer work excepted) because money ruins things. And I've worked with a few real dicks, but so far, not being a dick has ended up being a pretty solid workplace strategy. But, ymmv.
posted by thivaia at 6:46 AM on February 21, 2017
posted by thivaia at 6:46 AM on February 21, 2017
and a good way to guarantee being among the first to be laid off if the company cuts back.
A good reminder of why we need unions.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 6:49 AM on February 21, 2017 [22 favorites]
A good reminder of why we need unions.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 6:49 AM on February 21, 2017 [22 favorites]
I don't like my coworkers and am apparently readable enough that this sorts itself out automatically. (Also, I'm in a union.)
posted by paper chromatographologist at 6:50 AM on February 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by paper chromatographologist at 6:50 AM on February 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
This would never work at my current job (technology/marketing). Close collaboration is essential, and because most of our colleagues share similar values, we usually end up fairly close, maintaining friendships even after people exit. Even when folks don't share the same values, they are usually sensitive enough to keep it to themselves, or respectful enough to agree to disagree.
I would like to read an article about maintaining boundaries under a situation where your teammates are more like friends, though. I've definitely been bitten once or twice by oversharing, and I've also learned things about colleagues I wish I did not know.
posted by lieber hair at 6:51 AM on February 21, 2017 [6 favorites]
I would like to read an article about maintaining boundaries under a situation where your teammates are more like friends, though. I've definitely been bitten once or twice by oversharing, and I've also learned things about colleagues I wish I did not know.
posted by lieber hair at 6:51 AM on February 21, 2017 [6 favorites]
ArbitraryAndCapricious, I really really really liked your comment. The way you treat your coworkers is a reflection on you. The way they treat you is a reflection on them. Your name is misleading. Would you consider changing it to ThoughtfulAndDeliberate?
posted by Mr. Fig at 6:57 AM on February 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Mr. Fig at 6:57 AM on February 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
SansPoint: "I do not Facebook friend co-workers.
Once they stop being co-workers, however, and I like them as people, fair game."
I do that but got bit once when I went back to work at a job after being gone for a year and half. Fortunately I'm gone from there again.
posted by octothorpe at 6:57 AM on February 21, 2017
Once they stop being co-workers, however, and I like them as people, fair game."
I do that but got bit once when I went back to work at a job after being gone for a year and half. Fortunately I'm gone from there again.
posted by octothorpe at 6:57 AM on February 21, 2017
Also, what kind of asshole asks their co-workers who they voted for?
It's generally pretty easy to tell without asking who the Trump voters are.
posted by octothorpe at 6:59 AM on February 21, 2017 [8 favorites]
It's generally pretty easy to tell without asking who the Trump voters are.
posted by octothorpe at 6:59 AM on February 21, 2017 [8 favorites]
I don't fully follow the "no social media" policy myself (my co-workers are generally nice, but I have mostly unfollowed them, which they know), but has no one heard of accepting a friend request and then unfriending three days later? Perfect move. They get the notification that you accepted their friend request, so you get points for being nice and friendly. They never get a request that you unfriended them, though, so unless they're actively looking for your posts, they'll never know that you're not still friends. The worst that can happen is that they ask why you didn't like a post. You just reply "oh, I don't really use Facebook that often; I must not have seen it". Problem solved. And if someone does find out that you're no longer friends, just play dumb. "How did that happen?" Then *you* re-friend them, only to repeat the unfriending process three days later.
posted by kevinbelt at 7:03 AM on February 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by kevinbelt at 7:03 AM on February 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
You can tell this was written by a man. Women who do this are called b*tches.
posted by AFABulous at 7:30 AM on February 21, 2017 [40 favorites]
posted by AFABulous at 7:30 AM on February 21, 2017 [40 favorites]
A good reminder of why we need unions.
The idea that unions protect dislikable assholes is very likely one of the reasons why unions aren't more popular in the US, and certainly part of the negative PR campaign against them.
That is not the sales pitch I would run with.
posted by Kadin2048 at 7:31 AM on February 21, 2017 [19 favorites]
The idea that unions protect dislikable assholes is very likely one of the reasons why unions aren't more popular in the US, and certainly part of the negative PR campaign against them.
That is not the sales pitch I would run with.
posted by Kadin2048 at 7:31 AM on February 21, 2017 [19 favorites]
Wish I'd seen this 27 years ago when I started, but yes. No good can come from being social media 'friends' with coworkers. When we all watched the OJ verdict in the conference room things became clear. Decades later the trump victory cemented it.
posted by fixedgear at 7:41 AM on February 21, 2017
posted by fixedgear at 7:41 AM on February 21, 2017
I think the big point is setting boundaries. I didn't get to choose my coworkers, unlike my friends, so I'm kinda stuck with what I got. Unlike family, who I'm also stuck with, I can't simply avoid them until next Thanksgiving, I have to see them every day.
So, there is an unspoken expectation that we neutralize our presence to most people. It's why the "don't talk religion or politics" used to be a thing. Instead, we stick to relatively noncontroversial topics like the weather, sports, or food. We smooth out some of our rough edges, and keep the shop running smoothly.
Being civil, pleasant, and, to some degree, friendly help to this end--going full antisocial, as presented in the article, definitely makes you less desirable as a coworker. While it shouldn't impact a performance review, it can reinforce something heading in a negative direction.
Unfortunately, the tend over the last twenty-five years of my career (and society in general) is that politics is more of a spectator sport, and folks (typically conservatives, in my opinion) like to talk about it openly and loudly. Social media doesn't help--I prefer not to know how little I'd think of someone if I didn't have to work with them everyday.
I try to take a "porous line" approach: I'll draw a line between work and life, and select where I'll allow things to pass through the line.
but has no one heard of accepting a friend request and then unfriending three days later?
While I appreciate the goal--creating the impression to avoid confrontation--I think it flies in the face of setting boundaries. Granted, being "friends" on Facebook is more-or-less the same as subscribing to an RSS feed. I still think drawing a line is useful for all involved.
posted by MrGuilt at 7:42 AM on February 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
So, there is an unspoken expectation that we neutralize our presence to most people. It's why the "don't talk religion or politics" used to be a thing. Instead, we stick to relatively noncontroversial topics like the weather, sports, or food. We smooth out some of our rough edges, and keep the shop running smoothly.
Being civil, pleasant, and, to some degree, friendly help to this end--going full antisocial, as presented in the article, definitely makes you less desirable as a coworker. While it shouldn't impact a performance review, it can reinforce something heading in a negative direction.
Unfortunately, the tend over the last twenty-five years of my career (and society in general) is that politics is more of a spectator sport, and folks (typically conservatives, in my opinion) like to talk about it openly and loudly. Social media doesn't help--I prefer not to know how little I'd think of someone if I didn't have to work with them everyday.
I try to take a "porous line" approach: I'll draw a line between work and life, and select where I'll allow things to pass through the line.
but has no one heard of accepting a friend request and then unfriending three days later?
While I appreciate the goal--creating the impression to avoid confrontation--I think it flies in the face of setting boundaries. Granted, being "friends" on Facebook is more-or-less the same as subscribing to an RSS feed. I still think drawing a line is useful for all involved.
posted by MrGuilt at 7:42 AM on February 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
I've read this entire article, and I'm honestly not sure if it's supposed to be humorous? It's horrible advice, but it's also about as funny as an article entitled "how to torment your baby." Active instructions about how to be That Asshole are only funny when punching up or dealing with people you absolutely don't need to know.
You can tell this was written by a man. Women who do this are called b*tches.
This. As a marginally autistic woman who has learned to do emotional labor because it is part of my (unwritten) goddamn *job*, this.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 7:47 AM on February 21, 2017 [13 favorites]
You can tell this was written by a man. Women who do this are called b*tches.
This. As a marginally autistic woman who has learned to do emotional labor because it is part of my (unwritten) goddamn *job*, this.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 7:47 AM on February 21, 2017 [13 favorites]
Also, what kind of asshole asks their co-workers who they voted for?
What kind of asshole keeps a maga hat on their desk?
posted by fixedgear at 7:49 AM on February 21, 2017 [6 favorites]
What kind of asshole keeps a maga hat on their desk?
posted by fixedgear at 7:49 AM on February 21, 2017 [6 favorites]
Anyone who's on the fence about social media and superiors at work, learn from my misfortune. Ages ago, I got a friend request from someone who isn't in my direct chain of command but does hold a lot of sway in hiring decisions. . Last week she asked me to do her a favour, and watch a video then answer a few questions. To my horror, it was a recruitment video for some pyramid scheme she's involved in.
posted by peppermind at 7:51 AM on February 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by peppermind at 7:51 AM on February 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
When my inattentive ADHD is at its worst from life/organizational stress, I start to struggle with reading social cues and connecting with people even when I want to, and in the little corner of the IT market I've been working in, networking and building relationships is commonly considered as important or more so than technical ability, so this advice is worse than useless for me. Makes me pine for the old days when managers just stuck the dev team in a dark basement and left them to work without demanding they also be uber charming sales and marketing representatives.
posted by saulgoodman at 7:56 AM on February 21, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by saulgoodman at 7:56 AM on February 21, 2017 [5 favorites]
You can tell this was written by a man. Women who do this are called b*tches.
Unfortunately true, but I'll bet substantial money that the author's coworkers call him an asshole or dick.
posted by Candleman at 8:00 AM on February 21, 2017 [6 favorites]
Unfortunately true, but I'll bet substantial money that the author's coworkers call him an asshole or dick.
posted by Candleman at 8:00 AM on February 21, 2017 [6 favorites]
The author's previous piece may provide some helpful context about why he has adopted this strategy.
posted by reluctant early bird at 8:10 AM on February 21, 2017 [37 favorites]
posted by reluctant early bird at 8:10 AM on February 21, 2017 [37 favorites]
This is pretty extreme but I'm surprised so many people are calling it terrible. Figuring out a friendlier, but still very firm, version of this is how I've gotten some sanity in my life the last few years.
There is a very high likelihood that I don't know anything about the game, TV show, or band being talked about. I have a really hard time reading non-verbal cues or sarcasm especially when it's delivered straight and it's plausible but I'm supposed to know what was really meant or that it was sarcastic. I don't want to talk about other people's personal lives or get involved in gossip. So it's a lot easier to avoid all non-work talk and activity most of the time. If I lose my job and keep my sanity, then I'll be better off than the other way around. I need to sleep at night and I didn't used to without a lot of self-medicating. I'll still say 'hi' and be polite when I tell you that I'm getting back to work though. I won't put in my earbuds and stare at you.
posted by Clinging to the Wreckage at 8:14 AM on February 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
There is a very high likelihood that I don't know anything about the game, TV show, or band being talked about. I have a really hard time reading non-verbal cues or sarcasm especially when it's delivered straight and it's plausible but I'm supposed to know what was really meant or that it was sarcastic. I don't want to talk about other people's personal lives or get involved in gossip. So it's a lot easier to avoid all non-work talk and activity most of the time. If I lose my job and keep my sanity, then I'll be better off than the other way around. I need to sleep at night and I didn't used to without a lot of self-medicating. I'll still say 'hi' and be polite when I tell you that I'm getting back to work though. I won't put in my earbuds and stare at you.
posted by Clinging to the Wreckage at 8:14 AM on February 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
I survive at work by being pleasant and vague. Inoffensive but knowledgeable about your job is the only strategy when you're weird in comparison with your peers, along with very hard limits on what they know about your personal life. Most of my immediate coworkers are very young and I am waiting on the inevitable horrific fallout when their inability to separate work and personal life explodes.
The article made me realise I am friendly with coworkers in inverse proportion to how close they sit to my desk, because people who sit on the other side of the building are less likely to spend four or more hours a day chattering about nothing where I can hear them.
posted by winna at 8:28 AM on February 21, 2017 [6 favorites]
The article made me realise I am friendly with coworkers in inverse proportion to how close they sit to my desk, because people who sit on the other side of the building are less likely to spend four or more hours a day chattering about nothing where I can hear them.
posted by winna at 8:28 AM on February 21, 2017 [6 favorites]
The author's previous piece may provide some helpful context about why he has adopted this strategy
Yeah, that article should really be read as a companion piece. Context is everything.
posted by chococat at 8:40 AM on February 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
Yeah, that article should really be read as a companion piece. Context is everything.
posted by chococat at 8:40 AM on February 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
Huh. When surrounded by people I don't like, I've always just followed the path of talking to them like I talked to my parents as a teenager, but with maybe a little more fake cheer thrown in.
Asked about social media, football, any TV show, politics or other current events I just say I don't really follow those things all that much. (Compared to who can remain unstated leaving the answer truthful enough.)
Personal life? Oh, just hung out, nothing special. What'd I do? Read a little, went for a walk. Have I read the such and such? No, not my thing. I mostly read about X (Some dull subject people have no interest in and don't want to hear you talk about, thus ending the questions on it pretty much forever.)
As to stories, I listen politely and don't ask questions. Just provide some vague affirmation like, "That sounds fun." or "That's too bad.", anything that isn't asking for expansion on the subject, but can't be felt as ignoring the story either, with the idea being of neither offending or encouraging.
Basically the goal is just to sell yourself as someone that is too outside their area of interest to want to talk to about personal matters, but pleasant enough that you aren't actively alienating them. Luckily for me my interests do tend to be odd enough that there is little I need to do to seem eccentric. It keeps most conversations more centered on universal topics and dumb "jokes" of the sort all workplaces have based on the actual things being done in the job place.
posted by gusottertrout at 8:43 AM on February 21, 2017 [5 favorites]
Asked about social media, football, any TV show, politics or other current events I just say I don't really follow those things all that much. (Compared to who can remain unstated leaving the answer truthful enough.)
Personal life? Oh, just hung out, nothing special. What'd I do? Read a little, went for a walk. Have I read the such and such? No, not my thing. I mostly read about X (Some dull subject people have no interest in and don't want to hear you talk about, thus ending the questions on it pretty much forever.)
As to stories, I listen politely and don't ask questions. Just provide some vague affirmation like, "That sounds fun." or "That's too bad.", anything that isn't asking for expansion on the subject, but can't be felt as ignoring the story either, with the idea being of neither offending or encouraging.
Basically the goal is just to sell yourself as someone that is too outside their area of interest to want to talk to about personal matters, but pleasant enough that you aren't actively alienating them. Luckily for me my interests do tend to be odd enough that there is little I need to do to seem eccentric. It keeps most conversations more centered on universal topics and dumb "jokes" of the sort all workplaces have based on the actual things being done in the job place.
posted by gusottertrout at 8:43 AM on February 21, 2017 [5 favorites]
One of the soundest pieces of advice regarding workplaces was given me by my father. "Think of the job as riding on a bus," he said. "There are others riding with you. Some may be nice, some not so much. But you're all just riding on a bus. Anyone, at any time, might get on or off, even you. People get off for many reasons, and often without warning. When they are gone, chances are you'll never see them again. So limit your interactions on that basis--don't commit your heart to co-workers, keep that for your family and real friends. Co-workers are to be kept on a friendly basis, but always, always at a distance."
posted by kinnakeet at 9:06 AM on February 21, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by kinnakeet at 9:06 AM on February 21, 2017 [20 favorites]
So, on the one hand: keep your distance from co-workers, don't commit to them, they are not your friends.
On the other: making friends as an adult is so hard and impossible!
To quote the talking door on the Heart of Gold: "Hmmmmmmm."
posted by grumpybear69 at 9:23 AM on February 21, 2017 [6 favorites]
On the other: making friends as an adult is so hard and impossible!
To quote the talking door on the Heart of Gold: "Hmmmmmmm."
posted by grumpybear69 at 9:23 AM on February 21, 2017 [6 favorites]
Step One: move away from Texas. I grew up in the midwest and lived in the South. Dropped everything to get away from those people twice. No MAGA-mensch here in my office in California!
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 9:53 AM on February 21, 2017
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 9:53 AM on February 21, 2017
"Think of the job as riding on a bus," he said. "There are others riding with you. Some may be nice, some not so much. But you're all just riding on a bus. Anyone, at any time, might get on or off, even you. People get off for many reasons, and often without warning. When they are gone, chances are you'll never see them again. So limit your interactions on that basis--don't commit your heart to co-workers, keep that for your family and real friends. Co-workers are to be kept on a friendly basis, but always, always at a distance."
Great analogy unless you ride a bus that has the same people on it every day, like me.
posted by blucevalo at 10:00 AM on February 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
Great analogy unless you ride a bus that has the same people on it every day, like me.
posted by blucevalo at 10:00 AM on February 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
When you’re quiet, people assume it’s because you are angry or there is something wrong.
From much of the rest of the article, I assumed the reason Dante Jordan is quiet at work is because her's angry and there's something wrong.
posted by layceepee at 10:40 AM on February 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
From much of the rest of the article, I assumed the reason Dante Jordan is quiet at work is because her's angry and there's something wrong.
posted by layceepee at 10:40 AM on February 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
When they are gone, chances are you'll never see them again. So limit your interactions on that basis--don't commit your heart to co-workers, keep that for your family and real friends.
Maybe Pittsburgh is a small town but I've worked with the same people at two or three jobs. One of my bosses at my current job was my boss at my last job. Or even if it's not the same person, it's someone who knows or is related to a co-worker. At one job in a fairly small start-up, one engineer was the husband of a professor of mine, another was the husband of an engineer at my previous job and yet another was the wife of a QA engineer at that same previous job.
posted by octothorpe at 11:40 AM on February 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
Maybe Pittsburgh is a small town but I've worked with the same people at two or three jobs. One of my bosses at my current job was my boss at my last job. Or even if it's not the same person, it's someone who knows or is related to a co-worker. At one job in a fairly small start-up, one engineer was the husband of a professor of mine, another was the husband of an engineer at my previous job and yet another was the wife of a QA engineer at that same previous job.
posted by octothorpe at 11:40 AM on February 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
Maybe Pittsburgh is a small town but I've worked with the same people at two or three jobs. One of my bosses at my current job was my boss at my last job.
I know here in Cincinnati (a similar sized city), I've seen IT "packs" that move the same way. I've had two or three interactions where someone I worked with at one place popped up with a vendor I'm working with, etc. I've also had situations where the same person knows my friend at one job, works with me at another, then wound up working with my wife at a third company.
However, all these interactions are spaced out by months/years. It flies in the face of "chances are you'll never see them again." However, the fact that they do go, of there own accord, without warning and for their own reasons does call out the need not to get invested in them. The fact they pop up again calls out the need to maintain pleasant, though not close, relations.
posted by MrGuilt at 11:51 AM on February 21, 2017
I know here in Cincinnati (a similar sized city), I've seen IT "packs" that move the same way. I've had two or three interactions where someone I worked with at one place popped up with a vendor I'm working with, etc. I've also had situations where the same person knows my friend at one job, works with me at another, then wound up working with my wife at a third company.
However, all these interactions are spaced out by months/years. It flies in the face of "chances are you'll never see them again." However, the fact that they do go, of there own accord, without warning and for their own reasons does call out the need not to get invested in them. The fact they pop up again calls out the need to maintain pleasant, though not close, relations.
posted by MrGuilt at 11:51 AM on February 21, 2017
I’m kind of taken aback by the tenor of the response here, given that the original piece pretty obviously a) is exaggerated for humorous effect, and b) works as a larger meta-narrative about living as a minority in an oppressive, homogenous, and structurally biased environment/culture.
Not just a racial minority— he explicitly mentions political differences as well, but it could apply to sexual minorities in aggressively hetero spaces, or disabled people in aggressively able-ist spaces, or any form of “otherness”.
When you are forced to spend time in an environment where you are different, and your difference could easily make you a target, you DO have to have a strategy. He gives funny examples (Tom Brady’s cheekbones), but the core list of advice is sound, when you are expected to survive in a hostile environment:
-Get comfortable with the fact that people will think you hate them, or that you’re an asshole.
-Learn to end conversations quickly and efficiently.
-Always have a fake obligation on deck, unless you’ve been offered free food and drink.
-Master your surroundings.
-Know everyone’s schedule. Timing is everything.
-Never stay in the office on your lunch break.
-Never ever become friends with your co-workers on social media.
It’s basically a play by play of how the “work twice as hard to get half as far” mantra works— when the system is stacked against you, you spend an enormous amount of time figuring out how to navigate the system just so that you can get to the point of even doing your actual job. This isn’t the strategy for a regular workplace. This is explicitly a set of strategies for a hostile workplace. His coworkers may not perceive themselves as hostile, but their daily actions let him know that they ARE, regardless of their intentions.
If you've never had to think about any of these things, then that is great for you. But it doesn't make people who have to think this way inherently rude. When I keep my eyes and ears open so that I can avoid riding in the elevator with the office shouting misogynist, that isn't because I'm mean. It's because he makes me feel unsafe at work, and I just want to do my job.
posted by a fiendish thingy at 11:51 AM on February 21, 2017 [28 favorites]
Not just a racial minority— he explicitly mentions political differences as well, but it could apply to sexual minorities in aggressively hetero spaces, or disabled people in aggressively able-ist spaces, or any form of “otherness”.
When you are forced to spend time in an environment where you are different, and your difference could easily make you a target, you DO have to have a strategy. He gives funny examples (Tom Brady’s cheekbones), but the core list of advice is sound, when you are expected to survive in a hostile environment:
-Get comfortable with the fact that people will think you hate them, or that you’re an asshole.
-Learn to end conversations quickly and efficiently.
-Always have a fake obligation on deck, unless you’ve been offered free food and drink.
-Master your surroundings.
-Know everyone’s schedule. Timing is everything.
-Never stay in the office on your lunch break.
-Never ever become friends with your co-workers on social media.
It’s basically a play by play of how the “work twice as hard to get half as far” mantra works— when the system is stacked against you, you spend an enormous amount of time figuring out how to navigate the system just so that you can get to the point of even doing your actual job. This isn’t the strategy for a regular workplace. This is explicitly a set of strategies for a hostile workplace. His coworkers may not perceive themselves as hostile, but their daily actions let him know that they ARE, regardless of their intentions.
If you've never had to think about any of these things, then that is great for you. But it doesn't make people who have to think this way inherently rude. When I keep my eyes and ears open so that I can avoid riding in the elevator with the office shouting misogynist, that isn't because I'm mean. It's because he makes me feel unsafe at work, and I just want to do my job.
posted by a fiendish thingy at 11:51 AM on February 21, 2017 [28 favorites]
exactly, a fiendish thingy. These are strategies for an environment where no one likes you and no one would anyway, no matter what you did.
If you've never been the odd person at work out to the point where you suspect that you might actually be an alien from another dimension this article isn't going to make sense to you.
posted by winna at 12:04 PM on February 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
If you've never been the odd person at work out to the point where you suspect that you might actually be an alien from another dimension this article isn't going to make sense to you.
posted by winna at 12:04 PM on February 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
The author's previous piece may provide some helpful context about why he has adopted this strategy.
Yep. I don't talk to my coworkers any more than I have to because they all voted for Trump. They know to shut up around me, but I can't be friendly with people who don't see me as a full human being. Several of them sincerely did not understand why I wouldn't just use the unisex bathroom after someone complained about me using the men's. HR was even a little confused until I said the magic words "ACLU lawyer." (Note: I'm white, but trans and gay.)
posted by AFABulous at 12:14 PM on February 21, 2017 [7 favorites]
Yep. I don't talk to my coworkers any more than I have to because they all voted for Trump. They know to shut up around me, but I can't be friendly with people who don't see me as a full human being. Several of them sincerely did not understand why I wouldn't just use the unisex bathroom after someone complained about me using the men's. HR was even a little confused until I said the magic words "ACLU lawyer." (Note: I'm white, but trans and gay.)
posted by AFABulous at 12:14 PM on February 21, 2017 [7 favorites]
Our title today is a quote from a TV character who fought to maintain extremely strict boundaries but whose life was generally enriched when he allowed his coworkers to get closer.
Different people and different situations call for different approaches. I'm friends to some degree with most of my coworkers. But I'll also file away the Earbud-Insert, I'm sure it'll come in handy some day.....
posted by floppyroofing at 12:19 PM on February 21, 2017
Different people and different situations call for different approaches. I'm friends to some degree with most of my coworkers. But I'll also file away the Earbud-Insert, I'm sure it'll come in handy some day.....
posted by floppyroofing at 12:19 PM on February 21, 2017
given that the original piece pretty obviously a) is exaggerated for humorous effect, and b) works as a larger meta-narrative about living as a minority in an oppressive, homogenous, and structurally biased environment/culture.
Is it? Because I fail to see the humor in it, and I REALLY fail to see how this works as any kind of meta-narrative, given that the author's attitude reeks of the kinds of privilege masculinity can give you. The female alternative involves homemade cupcakes, doing to homework to find non-offensive topics to talk about *regardless* of your interest level (watching TV shows you aren't particularly fond of, learning enough about football to discuss the game, reading celebrity gossip-- whatever), and, above all, plastering a smile on your face.
This sounds like the sort of nonsense that will get you laid off fast, followed by essays about How to File for Unemployment and How to Explain Your Lack of a Reference at Your Job Interview.
Again, I'm bewildered about how this is funny.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 1:33 PM on February 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
Is it? Because I fail to see the humor in it, and I REALLY fail to see how this works as any kind of meta-narrative, given that the author's attitude reeks of the kinds of privilege masculinity can give you. The female alternative involves homemade cupcakes, doing to homework to find non-offensive topics to talk about *regardless* of your interest level (watching TV shows you aren't particularly fond of, learning enough about football to discuss the game, reading celebrity gossip-- whatever), and, above all, plastering a smile on your face.
This sounds like the sort of nonsense that will get you laid off fast, followed by essays about How to File for Unemployment and How to Explain Your Lack of a Reference at Your Job Interview.
Again, I'm bewildered about how this is funny.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 1:33 PM on February 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
Counting my blessings after reading this thread. All but a handful of my friends are from old jobs – and I couldn't ask for better people. Shared adversity can bring people together very quickly.
As for Facebook – my boss at the time got me to sign up. We spent a not inconsiderable amount of time playing games.
posted by mushhushshu at 1:41 PM on February 21, 2017
As for Facebook – my boss at the time got me to sign up. We spent a not inconsiderable amount of time playing games.
posted by mushhushshu at 1:41 PM on February 21, 2017
Again, I'm bewildered about how this is funny.
It's the kind of funny that covers rage. The way that women employ these strategies in the workplace would, of course, be markedly different.
But this is someone trying to survive in an environment where his coworkers daily remind him that they do not view him as a real human being.
Not to give away spoilers for Hidden Figures, but this is basically the plot of the movie. How do you choose an affect that will allow you to survive in a place that despises you? How far is too far? Are there edge cases? Are there times when boundaries become permeable? The calculations are different for different people, depending on intersectional calculations. In this article, he offers the principles, then shows his own implementation of them in a particular place and time. Mine would be different. Another person's would also be different. But the central approaches would be extremely similar.
posted by a fiendish thingy at 1:44 PM on February 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
It's the kind of funny that covers rage. The way that women employ these strategies in the workplace would, of course, be markedly different.
But this is someone trying to survive in an environment where his coworkers daily remind him that they do not view him as a real human being.
Not to give away spoilers for Hidden Figures, but this is basically the plot of the movie. How do you choose an affect that will allow you to survive in a place that despises you? How far is too far? Are there edge cases? Are there times when boundaries become permeable? The calculations are different for different people, depending on intersectional calculations. In this article, he offers the principles, then shows his own implementation of them in a particular place and time. Mine would be different. Another person's would also be different. But the central approaches would be extremely similar.
posted by a fiendish thingy at 1:44 PM on February 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
I mean, if you don't find "As the Ancient Greek Philosopher Ludacris once said, don’t slip or get got" at least a little bit funny, then this will just have to boil down to Not Everyone Finds The Same Things Funny.
But I think a big subtext here is that he doesn't ACTUALLY describe being outwardly hostile, but his coworkers-- and much of his audience, apparently-- perceive him as being angry despite the fact that he is describing doing his work and keeping his head down with minimal friction. He shows us his inner monologue that lets us know it is all rooted in despising his coworkers, but for all those coworkers know he just gets to work, puts on headphones, and never hangs around the breakroom. I think it is not an accident that this is partially the story of how black men are frequently portrayed as angry/frightening to white people, no matter how innocuous their actual behavior.
posted by a fiendish thingy at 1:52 PM on February 21, 2017 [11 favorites]
But I think a big subtext here is that he doesn't ACTUALLY describe being outwardly hostile, but his coworkers-- and much of his audience, apparently-- perceive him as being angry despite the fact that he is describing doing his work and keeping his head down with minimal friction. He shows us his inner monologue that lets us know it is all rooted in despising his coworkers, but for all those coworkers know he just gets to work, puts on headphones, and never hangs around the breakroom. I think it is not an accident that this is partially the story of how black men are frequently portrayed as angry/frightening to white people, no matter how innocuous their actual behavior.
posted by a fiendish thingy at 1:52 PM on February 21, 2017 [11 favorites]
This sounds like the sort of nonsense that will get you laid off fast,
This has come up a few times here and I have to wonder if it's really true? If we assume that the things he mentions aren't themselves interfering with work duties, is avoiding chit chat and socializing getting people laid off? I'm a weirdo in a nerd factory (and union) so I am somewhat removed from a lot of workplace styles, but I have had many jobs at various kinds of businesses and I can't imagine being laid off with that being the only reason.
posted by Clinging to the Wreckage at 2:03 PM on February 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
This has come up a few times here and I have to wonder if it's really true? If we assume that the things he mentions aren't themselves interfering with work duties, is avoiding chit chat and socializing getting people laid off? I'm a weirdo in a nerd factory (and union) so I am somewhat removed from a lot of workplace styles, but I have had many jobs at various kinds of businesses and I can't imagine being laid off with that being the only reason.
posted by Clinging to the Wreckage at 2:03 PM on February 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
On the Pittsburgh Is A Small Town Front, I've spent my entire working life here in a specialized field that pretty much means I will always work at universities of a certain size. Which means there are really only two big employment fish in town, maybe a couple of other less-attractive options. If you burn your bridges at the big two in my field, you're probably either leaving the city or going to industry, which, if you were interested in industry, you wouldn't be doing what I do anyway.
So yeah, pretty much everyone I work with (including me) has come and gone, sometimes more than once, between the big two employers. We all know the same people. When I had my job interview, my now-boss looked at my resume, laughed, and said "Okay, I'm skipping every single question about how you work with difficult people, because if you survived five years with [previous employer who she knew], you can do that just fine." Sometimes the Small Town Everyone Knows Everyone thing is a benefit.
So, yeah - I keep it friendly-ish at my job. But just -ish. Barring one particular other coworker who is on my wavelength, everyone I work with is nice enough but there's not enough conversational/lifestyle click there to get us through more than ten minutes of pleasantries. I wouldn't know how to make them into real friends if I wanted to; the basis just doesn't seem to be there. I definitely wouldn't social-media-friend any of them, even that one Fave Coworker D - I need some clear separations between my work and my personal life for my own sanity.
My attitude has worked more or less at different workplaces. Right now I'm in a den of introverts, we pretty much all retreat to our corners most of the time, and it's great. I do have a mental note that specific colleagues will spend at least half an hour of any meeting on personal chit-chat, and I just plan my schedule accordingly. (Note: I first typed "waste" half an hour, then changed it because I recognize that half hour means something to them, and it doesn't kill me to accommodate it. But for me it's a wasted and awkward half hour. I'd like to get in, do the meeting, and get out.)
posted by Stacey at 2:10 PM on February 21, 2017
So yeah, pretty much everyone I work with (including me) has come and gone, sometimes more than once, between the big two employers. We all know the same people. When I had my job interview, my now-boss looked at my resume, laughed, and said "Okay, I'm skipping every single question about how you work with difficult people, because if you survived five years with [previous employer who she knew], you can do that just fine." Sometimes the Small Town Everyone Knows Everyone thing is a benefit.
So, yeah - I keep it friendly-ish at my job. But just -ish. Barring one particular other coworker who is on my wavelength, everyone I work with is nice enough but there's not enough conversational/lifestyle click there to get us through more than ten minutes of pleasantries. I wouldn't know how to make them into real friends if I wanted to; the basis just doesn't seem to be there. I definitely wouldn't social-media-friend any of them, even that one Fave Coworker D - I need some clear separations between my work and my personal life for my own sanity.
My attitude has worked more or less at different workplaces. Right now I'm in a den of introverts, we pretty much all retreat to our corners most of the time, and it's great. I do have a mental note that specific colleagues will spend at least half an hour of any meeting on personal chit-chat, and I just plan my schedule accordingly. (Note: I first typed "waste" half an hour, then changed it because I recognize that half hour means something to them, and it doesn't kill me to accommodate it. But for me it's a wasted and awkward half hour. I'd like to get in, do the meeting, and get out.)
posted by Stacey at 2:10 PM on February 21, 2017
This has come up a few times here and I have to wonder if it's really true? If we assume that the things he mentions aren't themselves interfering with work duties, is avoiding chit chat and socializing getting people laid off? I'm a weirdo in a nerd factory (and union) so I am somewhat removed from a lot of workplace styles, but I have had many jobs at various kinds of businesses and I can't imagine being laid off with that being the only reason.
In my experience it depends on the culture. I've had job where not making some effort to chit chat and socialize would have labeled me as an outsider and likely made the job harder and affect perception and performance reviews. I've had other jobs where acting similar to what this guy talks about wouldn't be an issue.
posted by Jalliah at 2:11 PM on February 21, 2017
In my experience it depends on the culture. I've had job where not making some effort to chit chat and socialize would have labeled me as an outsider and likely made the job harder and affect perception and performance reviews. I've had other jobs where acting similar to what this guy talks about wouldn't be an issue.
posted by Jalliah at 2:11 PM on February 21, 2017
This has come up a few times here and I have to wonder if it's really true? If we assume that the things he mentions aren't themselves interfering with work duties, is avoiding chit chat and socializing getting people laid off? I'm a weirdo in a nerd factory (and union) so I am somewhat removed from a lot of workplace styles, but I have had many jobs at various kinds of businesses and I can't imagine being laid off with that being the only reason.
My sense is that it's less that you're getting laid off for this reason (which would really be getting fired), and more that if there were to be a round of layoffs, you'd find your name quickly floating to the top of the "to lay off" pile, because you aren't well-liked. Of course, it looks like in this author's case he'd be there already for a bunch of other reasons.
posted by Ragged Richard at 2:28 PM on February 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
My sense is that it's less that you're getting laid off for this reason (which would really be getting fired), and more that if there were to be a round of layoffs, you'd find your name quickly floating to the top of the "to lay off" pile, because you aren't well-liked. Of course, it looks like in this author's case he'd be there already for a bunch of other reasons.
posted by Ragged Richard at 2:28 PM on February 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
In my experience it depends on the culture. I've had job where not making some effort to chit chat and socialize would have labeled me as an outsider and likely made the job harder and affect perception and performance reviews. I've had other jobs where acting similar to what this guy talks about wouldn't be an issue.
The position itself also plays a role. I was a long-term temp at one place and had my desk repeatedly moved around in some sort of demented attempt to get me to socialize more within the department, then was repeatedly passed over for full-time positions for inscrutable reasons that I suspect mostly boiled down to someone deciding that I was a bad fit because I didn't chat enough. Once I was a full-time employee there (under a different manager who didn't care about my workplace social life), it didn't matter quite so much because I could just keep my head down and do my job. There are a fair number of jobs where the prevailing wisdom is to hire a bunch of people, burn through as many as possible, and then maybe promote anyone who can hack it for a year or two. The Up or Out stuff employers pull seems to me to be a terrible way to treat people or get consistently good work out of anyone, but it's a place where managing how you are perceived is key since they will not hesitate to push you out the door for really dumb reasons.
posted by Copronymus at 2:33 PM on February 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
The position itself also plays a role. I was a long-term temp at one place and had my desk repeatedly moved around in some sort of demented attempt to get me to socialize more within the department, then was repeatedly passed over for full-time positions for inscrutable reasons that I suspect mostly boiled down to someone deciding that I was a bad fit because I didn't chat enough. Once I was a full-time employee there (under a different manager who didn't care about my workplace social life), it didn't matter quite so much because I could just keep my head down and do my job. There are a fair number of jobs where the prevailing wisdom is to hire a bunch of people, burn through as many as possible, and then maybe promote anyone who can hack it for a year or two. The Up or Out stuff employers pull seems to me to be a terrible way to treat people or get consistently good work out of anyone, but it's a place where managing how you are perceived is key since they will not hesitate to push you out the door for really dumb reasons.
posted by Copronymus at 2:33 PM on February 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
In my experience it depends on the culture. I've had job where not making some effort to chit chat and socialize would have labeled me as an outsider and likely made the job harder and affect perception and performance reviews
That's pretty far from "laid off fast" and even this bothers me. As winterhill says above - how about making my performance review a review of my performance and not the time I didn't go out to happy hour or go on about the football game? Unless my job actually involves interacting with people and I'm not doing well I don't see how it should be such a big deal. Yes I realize that most jobs involve interacting with people, but in the article he didn't say he blew off requests for status updates or didn't deliver a report or respond to an email.
you'd find your name quickly floating to the top of the "to lay off" pile, because you aren't well-liked.
I am really glad I don't work in a rainbow factory where my job is to be Mr Personality or else be let go instead of doing my job properly.
Of course, it looks like in this author's case he'd be there already for a bunch of other reasons.
The reactions to this article are interesting. I'm on board with most of his strategy except "Always have a fake obligation on deck, unless you’ve been offered free food and drink." I've found I'm much more at ease politely saying "No thank you" over and over until I look silly than making up a fake commitment. But apparently following this advice makes me a jerk who is likely to be laid off for a bunch of reasons to some people.
posted by Clinging to the Wreckage at 2:40 PM on February 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
That's pretty far from "laid off fast" and even this bothers me. As winterhill says above - how about making my performance review a review of my performance and not the time I didn't go out to happy hour or go on about the football game? Unless my job actually involves interacting with people and I'm not doing well I don't see how it should be such a big deal. Yes I realize that most jobs involve interacting with people, but in the article he didn't say he blew off requests for status updates or didn't deliver a report or respond to an email.
you'd find your name quickly floating to the top of the "to lay off" pile, because you aren't well-liked.
I am really glad I don't work in a rainbow factory where my job is to be Mr Personality or else be let go instead of doing my job properly.
Of course, it looks like in this author's case he'd be there already for a bunch of other reasons.
The reactions to this article are interesting. I'm on board with most of his strategy except "Always have a fake obligation on deck, unless you’ve been offered free food and drink." I've found I'm much more at ease politely saying "No thank you" over and over until I look silly than making up a fake commitment. But apparently following this advice makes me a jerk who is likely to be laid off for a bunch of reasons to some people.
posted by Clinging to the Wreckage at 2:40 PM on February 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
Inoffensive but knowledgeable about your job is the only strategy when you're weird in comparison with your peers,
...Yeah. Unfortunately I've had it pointed out to me several times in the last few months that I am basically offending people just by existing these days, so kinda like the author, I realized I have to adopt a similar policy. I say hi when I walk in, I say bye when I leave, if they want to talk to me about a non-work thing, fine. Anything else, however, I am awful if I speak, so I have decided to keep my trap shut. So at this point I am on the headphones for 8 hours straight, taking lunch when everyone else doesn't, sitting elsewhere at parties, etc. Whether or not this works to make anyone less unhappy with me, who knows. Probably not, I'm probably just horrible and doomed either way because I exist and am thus irritating.
That second article of the author's explains a whole lot, though. Is he wrong for realizing that he needs to keep his trap shut when he's not in a safe space? I think he's right to do that, though I don't think I would recommend 100% shutting anyone down who wants to be chatty for five minutes. That will come off as harsh.
posted by jenfullmoon at 2:42 PM on February 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
...Yeah. Unfortunately I've had it pointed out to me several times in the last few months that I am basically offending people just by existing these days, so kinda like the author, I realized I have to adopt a similar policy. I say hi when I walk in, I say bye when I leave, if they want to talk to me about a non-work thing, fine. Anything else, however, I am awful if I speak, so I have decided to keep my trap shut. So at this point I am on the headphones for 8 hours straight, taking lunch when everyone else doesn't, sitting elsewhere at parties, etc. Whether or not this works to make anyone less unhappy with me, who knows. Probably not, I'm probably just horrible and doomed either way because I exist and am thus irritating.
That second article of the author's explains a whole lot, though. Is he wrong for realizing that he needs to keep his trap shut when he's not in a safe space? I think he's right to do that, though I don't think I would recommend 100% shutting anyone down who wants to be chatty for five minutes. That will come off as harsh.
posted by jenfullmoon at 2:42 PM on February 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
But apparently following this advice makes me a jerk who is likely to be laid off for a bunch of reasons to some people.
Clarification! What I meant was that as he is the only black dude working with a bunch of Trump supporters in Texas, they're going to find a way to lay him off first no matter how pleasant he is.
posted by Ragged Richard at 2:43 PM on February 21, 2017 [5 favorites]
Clarification! What I meant was that as he is the only black dude working with a bunch of Trump supporters in Texas, they're going to find a way to lay him off first no matter how pleasant he is.
posted by Ragged Richard at 2:43 PM on February 21, 2017 [5 favorites]
Ahh, that makes sense Ragged Richard. That is its own bundle of senseless behavior, but your point makes sense now.
posted by Clinging to the Wreckage at 2:49 PM on February 21, 2017
posted by Clinging to the Wreckage at 2:49 PM on February 21, 2017
Yeah. Unfortunately I've had it pointed out to me several times in the last few months that I am basically offending people just by existing these days, so kinda like the author, I realized I have to adopt a similar policy.
That's me, too. I have a whole set of involved rules about interacting with the people at my work at this point which I am thinking I should write down just for the amusement value. Things like 'Never talk without prepared wording after four pm' and 'Do not respond to personal questions with more than a three-word reply' and the basic all purpose one of 'Remember that no one likes you'.
It is not fun, but like the author of the article, my direct deposits keep coming in.
posted by winna at 2:52 PM on February 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
That's me, too. I have a whole set of involved rules about interacting with the people at my work at this point which I am thinking I should write down just for the amusement value. Things like 'Never talk without prepared wording after four pm' and 'Do not respond to personal questions with more than a three-word reply' and the basic all purpose one of 'Remember that no one likes you'.
It is not fun, but like the author of the article, my direct deposits keep coming in.
posted by winna at 2:52 PM on February 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
is avoiding chit chat and socializing getting people laid off?
Well, it would depend on the job. In Engineering? Probably not so much, but there still is an expectation that you communicate effectively with production, who's trying to interpret your bullshit, and project management, who needs to communicate what they need and manage their cost/schedule expectations with your input.
In project management? In any managerial position? You better learn to be friendly and get along with people. People mostly don't do things for you just because they're supposed to, they do it because they like you, empathize with your situation, and want to help you. They could just as easily do the bare minimum, "forget" things, and neglect to tell you when they know you're on the wrong track. Using those tips would be asking for an uphill battle every single day.
Can't do it? No, you won't get fired for "avoiding chit chat and socializing", you'll get fired for being completely ineffective. And nobody will feel bad about it.
posted by ctmf at 6:44 PM on February 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
Well, it would depend on the job. In Engineering? Probably not so much, but there still is an expectation that you communicate effectively with production, who's trying to interpret your bullshit, and project management, who needs to communicate what they need and manage their cost/schedule expectations with your input.
In project management? In any managerial position? You better learn to be friendly and get along with people. People mostly don't do things for you just because they're supposed to, they do it because they like you, empathize with your situation, and want to help you. They could just as easily do the bare minimum, "forget" things, and neglect to tell you when they know you're on the wrong track. Using those tips would be asking for an uphill battle every single day.
Can't do it? No, you won't get fired for "avoiding chit chat and socializing", you'll get fired for being completely ineffective. And nobody will feel bad about it.
posted by ctmf at 6:44 PM on February 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
The idea that unions protect dislikable assholes is very likely one of the reasons why unions aren't more popular in the US, and certainly part of the negative PR campaign against them.My dad was a union rep for the majority of his career. Upon entering the adult workforce, he offered me one piece of wisdom: "In all my years of representing those who face termination, deserved or not, not one of them was a collegial, well-liked employee. Take from that what you will."
posted by xyzzy at 7:52 PM on February 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
The easy way is to move to the UK. I've been in my job 6 months and have no idea if my co-workers are married or have kids, or what they do on the weekends. No one shares anything personal whatsoever.
I live in the UK and just came back from a skiing holiday with work-friends. In fact, it's the third time in three years that I've gone on a trip with people I met at work.
posted by atrazine at 5:29 AM on February 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
I live in the UK and just came back from a skiing holiday with work-friends. In fact, it's the third time in three years that I've gone on a trip with people I met at work.
posted by atrazine at 5:29 AM on February 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
Sure, I'm also from the UK, and one of the reason I posted this was that what I assumed were mainly American users on here had a really different view of this stuff than I did, eg. were much less friendly with colleagues. In conclusion, work is a land of contrasts, I guess?
posted by ominous_paws at 6:00 AM on February 22, 2017
posted by ominous_paws at 6:00 AM on February 22, 2017
Pieces like this make me ever more grateful for telecommuting.
My entire department is telecommuters - about 800 of us at the moment. We only see each other physically twice a year, unless we organize things ourselves.
Team chats are kept mostly professional - we do talk about food and pets between calls. It's delightful to not have to deal with office politics.
posted by MissySedai at 6:24 AM on February 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
My entire department is telecommuters - about 800 of us at the moment. We only see each other physically twice a year, unless we organize things ourselves.
Team chats are kept mostly professional - we do talk about food and pets between calls. It's delightful to not have to deal with office politics.
posted by MissySedai at 6:24 AM on February 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
doing to homework to find non-offensive topics to talk about *regardless* of your interest level (watching TV shows you aren't particularly fond of, learning enough about football to discuss the game, reading celebrity gossip-- whatever)
Wow that sucks. It sure sucks that people work at places where they feel they have to do that. I guess I've been lucky to work at places where I don't feel the need to engross myself in entertainment that doesn't interest me and I've been lucky that I can just be myself. I do work in an industry where your work is prioritized over your personality though, so that may be it too.
posted by LizBoBiz at 7:01 AM on February 22, 2017
Wow that sucks. It sure sucks that people work at places where they feel they have to do that. I guess I've been lucky to work at places where I don't feel the need to engross myself in entertainment that doesn't interest me and I've been lucky that I can just be myself. I do work in an industry where your work is prioritized over your personality though, so that may be it too.
posted by LizBoBiz at 7:01 AM on February 22, 2017
Sure, I'm also from the UK, and one of the reason I posted this was that what I assumed were mainly American users on here had a really different view of this stuff than I did, eg. were much less friendly with colleagues.
I'm American and I work with a lot of Indians-in-India. It's a group of about 30 men and they all hang out together, go on trips with each other, go to each others weddings, etc. I got a lot of Facebook friend requests from them, which I turned down because I don't friend any colleagues, but now that I'm leaving I accepted some. They are all FB friends with everyone in that office. I don't know if this is usual for India or if it's my particular company (which decidedly does not encourage camaraderie here).
posted by AFABulous at 9:43 AM on February 22, 2017
I'm American and I work with a lot of Indians-in-India. It's a group of about 30 men and they all hang out together, go on trips with each other, go to each others weddings, etc. I got a lot of Facebook friend requests from them, which I turned down because I don't friend any colleagues, but now that I'm leaving I accepted some. They are all FB friends with everyone in that office. I don't know if this is usual for India or if it's my particular company (which decidedly does not encourage camaraderie here).
posted by AFABulous at 9:43 AM on February 22, 2017
I don't agree that this is only for men. As a gay woman I've had to practice some of these myself in certain workplaces or around certain coworkers. I assume women with other marginalized identities might have to, as well. It's true we also then get penalized for not performing emotional labor. Sometimes it's safer to be considered a bitch than queer.
I've met young women in the workplace who are LGBT friendly and pry a lot into my personal life, probably seeing themselves as good allies or whatever, totally oblivious to the fact that senior management was homophobic and they were putting me at risk by asking me so many personal questions at work. They always seemed to come from this young idea that everyone at work should be friends, and couldn't get why I rebuffed their advances. It was because I couldn't trust them. I was friends with people who showed they could be tactful and discrete. Respect the boundaries other people set, even if you think you're "different."
posted by Emily's Fist at 10:12 AM on February 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
I've met young women in the workplace who are LGBT friendly and pry a lot into my personal life, probably seeing themselves as good allies or whatever, totally oblivious to the fact that senior management was homophobic and they were putting me at risk by asking me so many personal questions at work. They always seemed to come from this young idea that everyone at work should be friends, and couldn't get why I rebuffed their advances. It was because I couldn't trust them. I was friends with people who showed they could be tactful and discrete. Respect the boundaries other people set, even if you think you're "different."
posted by Emily's Fist at 10:12 AM on February 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
My dad was a union rep for the majority of his career. Upon entering the adult workforce, he offered me one piece of wisdom: "In all my years of representing those who face termination, deserved or not, not one of them was a collegial, well-liked employee. Take from that what you will."
That autistic and non-neurotypical employees who might be perfectly good at the requirements of the job but not good at small talk and being "likeable" should expect to be viewed as troublemakers or somehow at fault if they call their union for help with a job situation?
posted by Lexica at 10:52 AM on February 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
That autistic and non-neurotypical employees who might be perfectly good at the requirements of the job but not good at small talk and being "likeable" should expect to be viewed as troublemakers or somehow at fault if they call their union for help with a job situation?
posted by Lexica at 10:52 AM on February 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
I've met young women in the workplace who are LGBT friendly and pry a lot into my personal life, probably seeing themselves as good allies or whatever, totally oblivious to the fact that senior management was homophobic and they were putting me at risk by asking me so many personal questions at work.
ugh this so much. When I came out at work, a couple people fell all over themselves to prove how cool they were. One guy has a gay son (?? so???) and another person had a trans friend a decade ago. Somehow people think that gives them license to be closer than they would otherwise. I recently had top surgery. Didn't tell anyone what for, but I got the wink-wink nudge-nudge from a couple people.
posted by AFABulous at 11:11 AM on February 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
ugh this so much. When I came out at work, a couple people fell all over themselves to prove how cool they were. One guy has a gay son (?? so???) and another person had a trans friend a decade ago. Somehow people think that gives them license to be closer than they would otherwise. I recently had top surgery. Didn't tell anyone what for, but I got the wink-wink nudge-nudge from a couple people.
posted by AFABulous at 11:11 AM on February 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
Because I fail to see the humor in it, and I REALLY fail to see how this works as any kind of meta-narrative, given that the author's attitude reeks of the kinds of privilege masculinity can give you. The female alternative involves homemade cupcakes, doing to homework to find non-offensive topics to talk about *regardless* of your interest level (watching TV shows you aren't particularly fond of, learning enough about football to discuss the game, reading celebrity gossip-- whatever), and, above all, plastering a smile on your face.
So what are you arguing here? Are you arguing that because you feel compelled to go through this kissy-assy song-and-dance routine, that the author should do the same or face condemnation as one of the privileged?
posted by the hot hot side of randy at 2:29 PM on February 22, 2017
So what are you arguing here? Are you arguing that because you feel compelled to go through this kissy-assy song-and-dance routine, that the author should do the same or face condemnation as one of the privileged?
posted by the hot hot side of randy at 2:29 PM on February 22, 2017
I'm guessing if the company downsizes, ol' Dante will be the first one shown the door. Actively developing a reputation as an asshole is not a great career move.
Did you notice that Mr. Jordan is an African-American? In an overwhelmingly white workplace? I wouldn't normally mention this but I suspect that a part of the reason why he gets away with cold-shouldering his coworkers is that he is lawsuit insurance. HR can point to him and say "Discriminatory? Us? No way, man! We hire Basketball-Ameri - (oh, come ON! it's a JOKE! Can't you take a JOKE?!!) all the time."
posted by the hot hot side of randy at 2:39 PM on February 22, 2017
Did you notice that Mr. Jordan is an African-American? In an overwhelmingly white workplace? I wouldn't normally mention this but I suspect that a part of the reason why he gets away with cold-shouldering his coworkers is that he is lawsuit insurance. HR can point to him and say "Discriminatory? Us? No way, man! We hire Basketball-Ameri - (oh, come ON! it's a JOKE! Can't you take a JOKE?!!) all the time."
posted by the hot hot side of randy at 2:39 PM on February 22, 2017
That autistic and non-neurotypical employees who might be perfectly good at the requirements of the job but not good at small talk and being "likeable" should expect to be viewed as troublemakers or somehow at fault if they call their union for help with a job situation?It's just the way it was, fair or unfair. If management doesn't like you and/or your co-workers complain about you, you are more likely to be targeted for termination by management for bullshit reasons or minor errors. My dad represented hospital employees and teachers, and I can tell you that you could be the most brilliant and talented surgeon on staff but if you piss off enough of the hospital administration they will find a reason to fire you.
posted by xyzzy at 11:17 AM on February 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
I wouldn't normally mention this but I suspect that a part of the reason why he gets away with cold-shouldering his coworkers is that he is lawsuit insurance.
This is a really gross thing to write.
posted by Emily's Fist at 12:14 PM on February 23, 2017
This is a really gross thing to write.
posted by Emily's Fist at 12:14 PM on February 23, 2017
This is a really gross thing to write.
I agree with you that what I said was unpleasant, even gross. Mr. Jordan's workplace strikes me as a pretty gross place, filled with gross, cynical people, so, even if my choice of language has rubbed you the wrong way, I think that it is accurate and appropriate.
posted by the hot hot side of randy at 1:10 PM on February 23, 2017
I agree with you that what I said was unpleasant, even gross. Mr. Jordan's workplace strikes me as a pretty gross place, filled with gross, cynical people, so, even if my choice of language has rubbed you the wrong way, I think that it is accurate and appropriate.
posted by the hot hot side of randy at 1:10 PM on February 23, 2017
It's gross because it's based on the idea that being the only black person at an all-white workplace earns you special protections and privileges that white people don't get. Certainly his gross co-workers believe that; doesn't mean there's any evidence to support it as a real thing. It's the same thought pattern behind the claim that 1 black CEO among 99 white CEOs got there only because of his race. It's ass-backwards. It's the justification people make afterwards when they can't get around the fact of someone's existence. "They must only be here because of their race, for some reason."
He likely has to work way harder than other colleagues to make his career work. Some alternate explanations that don't rely on the idea that he only still has a job because he's useful as a token minority:
- he's good enough at his job to make his standoffishness not worth it
- he's exaggerating his unfriendliness to make a point in a satirical internet article
- he has, in fact, been penalized for this throughout his career and the idea that being a black person in an all-white racist workplace somehow "protects" him makes no sense
posted by Emily's Fist at 2:49 PM on February 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
He likely has to work way harder than other colleagues to make his career work. Some alternate explanations that don't rely on the idea that he only still has a job because he's useful as a token minority:
- he's good enough at his job to make his standoffishness not worth it
- he's exaggerating his unfriendliness to make a point in a satirical internet article
- he has, in fact, been penalized for this throughout his career and the idea that being a black person in an all-white racist workplace somehow "protects" him makes no sense
posted by Emily's Fist at 2:49 PM on February 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
Mods, I vote to add reluctant early bird's comment to the OP. It completely changes the tenor of the piece.
posted by disconnect at 8:19 AM on February 24, 2017
posted by disconnect at 8:19 AM on February 24, 2017
Mods, I vote to add reluctant early bird's comment to the OP. It completely changes the tenor of the piece.
I'd be absolutely happy with this.
posted by ominous_paws at 9:07 AM on February 24, 2017
I'd be absolutely happy with this.
posted by ominous_paws at 9:07 AM on February 24, 2017
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