#AltFurry
February 21, 2017 8:48 AM   Subscribe

Pretty much exactly what you imagine. Yes, it's a real hashtag. [Some NSFW illustrations there.]

From FurScience!: A Summary of Five Years of Research from the International Anthropomorphic Research Project: "When compared to other fan groups, furries were the most predominantly White." There is, of course, an opposition.
posted by Halloween Jack (33 comments total) 7 users marked this as a favorite
 
Is it still OK to punch a nazi if you have claws?
posted by darksasami at 9:17 AM on February 21, 2017 [1 favorite]


Often placed at the lowest tier of the "geek hierarchy"

Furries never deserved that, not at all, but the Nazi furries of the "HorseReich" (who are apparently so racist that even Richard Spencer has disavowed them) are contenders for the title.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 9:25 AM on February 21, 2017 [2 favorites]


If anything, this phenomena has given us this amazing sentence.

One alt-brony linked me to an extremely long interview on the white supremacist blog Counter-Currents.com detailing one fan's journey to "pony nationalism."

Pony nationalism. Beautiful.
posted by tittergrrl at 9:29 AM on February 21, 2017 [15 favorites]


"I do not feel comfortable around non-whites, mainly because they mostly harbor a desire to kill me for being whitey, on a macro scale if not a personal one."

I mean, just a thought ... maybe you could stop actually being Whitey, on a macro scale if not a personal one.
posted by uncleozzy at 9:31 AM on February 21, 2017 [43 favorites]


A much better article on the subject is here: Even Furries Are Fighting Fascists - Vice.com. Yes, the furry fandom has a white nationalist problem, but the entire fucking USA has that problem right now, and we're fighting it.

If you want a better (both more representative and more positive) conterpoint, please go read some posts from the #FurryBlackHistoryMonth hashtag on Twitter. Yes, the phrasing and all that, but it was used by a lot of black furry fans to show who they are, and it got a lot of love within the community (and also a lot of shitheads, but that's Twitter).

Preemptively: if we could not turn this into another LOL FURRIES thread, that'd be fucking awesome, thanks. Not saying it is now, just that the OP phrasing leans that way.
posted by hackwolf at 9:37 AM on February 21, 2017 [22 favorites]


There was some discussion on FB about where the line is between this and ToFL. I don't know that a consensus was reached - possibly public display and / or identification with.
posted by PMdixon at 9:44 AM on February 21, 2017


What is ToFL?
posted by numaner at 9:46 AM on February 21, 2017


Tom of Finland. Gay erotic cartoonist, lots of Nazi iconography.
posted by PMdixon at 9:55 AM on February 21, 2017


The Nazi presence in furry has been making itself known and making trouble for a couple of years now. I think it was last year (or maybe 2015) when a consolidated block of Nazi-furs bought up most of the convention block hotel rooms for the furry convention that happens in Denver (Rocky Mountain Fur Con) within the first few hours of them being made available, and it took concerted effort to get the hotel to look closely at the reservations being made and to cancel multiple room reservations being made by the same credit card.

Last year, there were fursuiters appearing at furcons in suit and wearing a swastika flag like a cape. I think one convention had a great number of attendees walk out of the con, to the point of nearly causing its financial collapse, because the con staff refused to do anything about the blatant Nazism happening in conspace.

There's a certain amount of 4chan attitude in the furry fandom, "just doing it for the lulz" sort of attention baiting. But beyond that sort of ignorant, childish behavior, there's an element within furry, the same as there is within all of society, who wants to right the personal wrongs they feel are a projection of greater injustices within society by scapegoating and oppression of The Other until they feel vindicated.

Furries are, in general, the most tolerant and accepting of any groups I've ever encountered. Unfortunately, being tolerant and accepting means that really negative edge behavior patterns get overlooked and are able to take root within the community at large for the sake of "letting them be them". I do hope that as the overarching culture figures out how to deal with this rise of racism and exclusion, the furry fandom is also able to develop strategies to combat this within their small slice of the pie.
posted by hippybear at 9:58 AM on February 21, 2017 [13 favorites]


Tom of Finland. Gay erotic cartoonist, lots of Nazi iconography.

Actually, thats not Nazi iconography. That's a fetish for men in uniform. From Wikipedia, "He later attributed his fetishistic interest in uniformed men to encounters with men in army uniform, especially soldiers of the German Wehrmacht serving in Finland at that time. "In my drawings I have no political statements to make, no ideology. I am thinking only about the picture itself. The whole Nazi philosophy, the racism and all that, is hateful to me, but of course I drew them anyway—they had the sexiest uniforms!"[6]"

Furries doing Nazi stuff today aren't doing it because they're trying to look sexy in their uniforms. The furs who have military uniforms as part of their fursona aren't going for the Tom Of Finland look, anyway. That's leather culture, a different sort of second skin to wear.
posted by hippybear at 10:01 AM on February 21, 2017 [14 favorites]


Nazi furs have been claiming for many years that they're only into it for the uniforms.
posted by reprise the theme song and roll the credits at 10:04 AM on February 21, 2017


Welp, I officially had my "What? I don't even!" moment today.

Thanks, Metafilter!
posted by Samizdata at 10:09 AM on February 21, 2017 [4 favorites]


Man, I've been seeing furry friends complaining about this stuff for years—pick a fandom, there are some gross assholes in it—and it's been one thing among many the last year or so that's been on the "and, fuck, now somehow it's getting worse" train along with everything else.

Seconding hackwolf's suggestion of the "Even Furries Are Fighting Fascists" article; I don't think the Motherboard piece is intended to be hostile to furries exactly but that it takes the structural tack of (a) "hey, we all know people think this shit's weird to begin with, but..." (b) and then basically finds a bunch of racist fuckers to talk to/about is disappointingly exploitative.
posted by cortex at 10:10 AM on February 21, 2017 [10 favorites]


FWIW, no derision was intended in my post, and yes, hackwolf's linked article is much better.
posted by Halloween Jack at 10:19 AM on February 21, 2017 [3 favorites]


One of the nicest, most intelligent and amazing people I've ever known was into furry fandom. He was one of the gentlest, most reflective and caring people I've met, and he ended up as the rare doctor who's doing it out of a genuine desire to help.

On the other hand, a scuzzier hairball (acquaintance of acquaintances type deal; I never liked him, thought he was too abrasive) turned into a full blown Nazi and murdered his black friend to impress Stormfront or something.

So, yeah. I think furrydom is probably incidental as a marker for fascism (er; obviously, right?), and we see comparable sub-fascisms within other subcultures, which is interesting! but highlighting that in ways that don't fall into "lol weirdos" mockery is of course always cool. My understanding as a distant observer is that there's always been some tension with the folks who use Nazi imagery, that there's been a bit of an uneasy tolerance because some of them actually really did just like the uniforms but the masks are coming off a bit more now that far right nationalists are feeling emboldened. And that's currently happening in a lot of subcultures. Even in my niche-ass philosophy group, we have one of two people who've come out as Trump supporters/alt-righters and longstanding ceasefires are getting dropped because fascism needs to be shut down.
posted by byanyothername at 10:45 AM on February 21, 2017 [1 favorite]


Sorry, Halloween Jack - I was reading things into your post that were mostly from the article rather than from your words, and I shouldn't have. Suffice it to say, I'm touchy on this for personal reasons.

There was an extended discussion on Furry Twitter about why exactly the fandom is such fertile ground for white nationalists, neocons, and neoreactionaries, starting with this tweet: https://twitter.com/doctorboda/status/831493121972326402 (Fair warning, doctorboda's twitter can get seriously NSFW)
posted by hackwolf at 10:57 AM on February 21, 2017 [2 favorites]


For what it's worth, I follow AntifaFurs on Tumblr. Does what it says on the tin.
posted by gc at 12:22 PM on February 21, 2017 [2 favorites]


Wait, we're just going to let "Alt" mean Nazi now?
posted by bongo_x at 1:23 PM on February 21, 2017 [6 favorites]


Wait, we're just going to let "Alt" mean Nazi now?


Won't someone think of Sun Volt?!
posted by kittensofthenight at 1:48 PM on February 21, 2017 [1 favorite]


"Alt" or "Alternative" has now become the official euphemism for hateful, bigoted evil. We have to go back to "New Wave" for '80s rock.
posted by oneswellfoop at 2:10 PM on February 21, 2017 [1 favorite]


But beyond that sort of ignorant, childish behavior, there's an element within furry, the same as there is within all of society, who wants to right the personal wrongs they feel are a projection of greater injustices within society by scapegoating and oppression of The Other until they feel vindicated.

This is a fantastic encapsulation of the problem of fascism, and shows why it's useful to note the presence of far-right furries. The phenomenon is interesting precisely because there is no reason for it whatsoever, nothing at all to connect furries to fascists.

Fascist furries, as a subculture, are a very bold illustration of the fact that the forces drawing people to the far-right are always incoherent, as incoherent as the far-right itself. All that is required is resentment, cowardice and enough self-loathing ("You think our country is so innocent?") to accept knowing, in your heart of hearts, that you're doing something wrong. Every group has people prone to fascism within it, who will then clothe that ugly, pathetic impulse in whatever cultural trappings they have to hand. Of course, the more white men that any group contains, the more likely it is to generate a fascistic tumour.
posted by howfar at 2:13 PM on February 21, 2017 [4 favorites]


"Alt" or "Alternative" has now become the official euphemism for hateful, bigoted evil.

Well, that explains a lot about Usenet.
posted by rokusan at 2:19 PM on February 21, 2017 [8 favorites]


But it was the alt-right. It seems a waste to make the "alt" half of that synonymous with hateful, bigoted evil.
posted by RobotHero at 2:44 PM on February 21, 2017 [2 favorites]


Wait, we're just going to let "Alt" mean Nazi now?

Well, except for all those @Alt[government agency] Twitter accounts (which may or may not explicitly claim to be employees of said agencies, and those that do so claim, do so with varying degrees of credibility) which are mostly anti-Trump.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 2:47 PM on February 21, 2017


Alt-furries should be really into obscure animals you probably haven't heard of.
posted by RobotHero at 2:49 PM on February 21, 2017 [14 favorites]


Alt-furries and nationalist bronies?

Oh, HELL NO!

Caring is what motherfucking counts!
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 3:15 PM on February 21, 2017 [4 favorites]


CTRL-ALT-DEL this timeline.
posted by mushhushshu at 3:22 PM on February 21, 2017 [3 favorites]


One of the most enlightening and entertaining moments of my life happened during the 6+ hours that I spent at Anthrocon, a "furry" convention in Pittsburgh this summer. I learned that people who wear fursuits do not, as a rule, have sex in them, because they are expensive and uncomfortable. I also learned that people who identify with animals so strongly that they feel the urge to dress up as animals are really no different than you or me. They are just trying to be who they are.

I don't understand the hatred. I really don't. All I understand is that most people are very good at hating things that they don't care to understand.

C'mon...how awesome is this guy? (I mean Raptor Jesus...the other guy is me.)
posted by Mr. Fig at 4:33 PM on February 21, 2017 [11 favorites]


hippybear wrote: "... there's an element within furry, the same as there is within all of society, who wants to right the personal wrongs they feel are a projection of greater injustices within society by scapegoating and oppression of The Other until they feel vindicated. "

More and more, the alt-right seems to me to consist of people (mostly young white men) who feel like they have been "bullied" (and who may have been bullied), and have responded by bullying others. They seem to be oblivious to the fact that they've been rejected for being assholes more than for being furry, gay, or even conservative.
posted by Jefffurry at 6:57 PM on February 21, 2017 [3 favorites]


More and more, the alt-right seems to me to consist of people (mostly young white men) who feel like they have been "bullied" (and who may have been bullied), and have responded by bullying others. They seem to be oblivious to the fact that they've been rejected for being assholes more than for being furry, gay, or even conservative.

pretty much ja
posted by PMdixon at 8:49 PM on February 21, 2017 [1 favorite]


The problems a certain kind of nerd has with bullying itself, but with their place in the hierarchy. They want to be the bullies, not the bullied. That there is a fascist furry movement doesn't surprise me: all of fandom has a fascist problem. And because geekdom is driving a lot of contemporary culture, things like GamerGate and the Sad Puppies functioned as training grounds for nu-fascism to break into the political mainstream.
posted by MartinWisse at 2:38 AM on February 22, 2017 [3 favorites]


"No, I said I wanted the Tom's of MAINE toothpaste!"
posted by thelonius at 9:14 AM on February 22, 2017 [2 favorites]




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