Doubling the RDA for Fruits and Veggies
February 25, 2017 11:09 AM Subscribe
New research indicates we should eat 10, not 5, fruits and veggies a day. Here are some real people who talk about how they manage it.
choking down 800g of fruit and veg per day to "prevent early death" is like? whatever, just let me die? what an ordeal.
posted by poffin boffin at 11:29 AM on February 25, 2017 [40 favorites]
posted by poffin boffin at 11:29 AM on February 25, 2017 [40 favorites]
what an ordeal.
Just wait for 10 years when you'll have to be in a constant state of eating fruit and veg or you will die like instantly.
posted by Celsius1414 at 11:32 AM on February 25, 2017 [39 favorites]
Just wait for 10 years when you'll have to be in a constant state of eating fruit and veg or you will die like instantly.
posted by Celsius1414 at 11:32 AM on February 25, 2017 [39 favorites]
Guess this means I'll be ordering large fries from Mickey Ds from now on.
posted by oceanjesse at 11:32 AM on February 25, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by oceanjesse at 11:32 AM on February 25, 2017 [7 favorites]
I'll start caring when these articles are actually about health and not weight-loss. (Ok that is my qualm with the one about how people cram this in.)
posted by masquesoporfavor at 11:34 AM on February 25, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by masquesoporfavor at 11:34 AM on February 25, 2017 [4 favorites]
Just wait for 10 years when you'll have to be in a constant state of eating fruit and veg or you will die like instantly.
am i going to evolve into a lil fruit bat pls say yes
posted by poffin boffin at 11:36 AM on February 25, 2017 [55 favorites]
am i going to evolve into a lil fruit bat pls say yes
posted by poffin boffin at 11:36 AM on February 25, 2017 [55 favorites]
Yeah, the Graun haven't really helped themselves by picking a white woman from Oxford who says we should all just cook from scratch and do weight watchers as their first interviewee, have they.
posted by ominous_paws at 11:43 AM on February 25, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by ominous_paws at 11:43 AM on February 25, 2017 [5 favorites]
Can it be all grapes? I will eat all of the grapes.
posted by sexyrobot at 11:45 AM on February 25, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by sexyrobot at 11:45 AM on February 25, 2017 [17 favorites]
Great, my diet is twice as bad as I thought it was.
posted by NMcCoy at 11:50 AM on February 25, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by NMcCoy at 11:50 AM on February 25, 2017 [9 favorites]
Can it be all grapes? I will eat all of the grapes.
Peeled grapes, with a servant fanning you.
posted by Michele in California at 11:51 AM on February 25, 2017 [9 favorites]
Peeled grapes, with a servant fanning you.
posted by Michele in California at 11:51 AM on February 25, 2017 [9 favorites]
Onions is all I eat
posted by the uncomplicated soups of my childhood at 11:54 AM on February 25, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by the uncomplicated soups of my childhood at 11:54 AM on February 25, 2017 [8 favorites]
Once I told my husband, in all earnestness, that I only wanted to deal with grapes if they were "presented to me in a bowl" and he sure hasn't ever let me forget that. But I don't know, man, getting grapes all ready to eat seems so exhausting somehow.
posted by something something at 11:55 AM on February 25, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by something something at 11:55 AM on February 25, 2017 [10 favorites]
They're defining a serving as 80g, which is about 3/4 cup. By that reckoning I think I'm hitting 7 or 8 servings on days when I eat breakfast, and just eyeballing it, that's equivalent to that visual plate that I think Harvard came up with?
So I guess what I'm saying is, slow news day?
posted by blnkfrnk at 11:58 AM on February 25, 2017 [3 favorites]
So I guess what I'm saying is, slow news day?
posted by blnkfrnk at 11:58 AM on February 25, 2017 [3 favorites]
Sweet, more ketchup.
posted by kevinbelt at 12:02 PM on February 25, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by kevinbelt at 12:02 PM on February 25, 2017 [3 favorites]
Grapes are easy to prepare. Just throw them in the freezer and take 'em out an hour or two later.
posted by Pope Guilty at 12:04 PM on February 25, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Pope Guilty at 12:04 PM on February 25, 2017 [6 favorites]
Grapes... buy seedless grapes in a bag, store in the fridge, give them a quick rinse just before eating. Pick them off the bunch and eat them.
This is the M&Ms of the fruits and veggies world.
Now apples... that takes a knife to get the core out. Then eat it, skin and all, preferably with peanut butter or caramel sauce. Who needs ice cream?
Now I'm hungry... and I have an apple.
posted by TrishaU at 12:08 PM on February 25, 2017 [6 favorites]
This is the M&Ms of the fruits and veggies world.
Now apples... that takes a knife to get the core out. Then eat it, skin and all, preferably with peanut butter or caramel sauce. Who needs ice cream?
Now I'm hungry... and I have an apple.
posted by TrishaU at 12:08 PM on February 25, 2017 [6 favorites]
Oh, but apples are easy if you eat the core too. I eat all kinds of seeds, so why not apple seeds too? Or do I need to wait till they're roasted and salted like other seeds?
The only 'waste' is the stem if you're so lucky to have an apple thus adorned.
posted by mightshould at 12:13 PM on February 25, 2017 [3 favorites]
The only 'waste' is the stem if you're so lucky to have an apple thus adorned.
posted by mightshould at 12:13 PM on February 25, 2017 [3 favorites]
Grapes:
Buy seedless. Rinse when you get home. Immediately pluck them all off the vine. They will stay fresher, longer instead of keeping the damn twig alive.
Apple:
Buy an apple slicer and corer. In one move you have a pile of slices. (You can also get a gadget for peeling them and you can do that before using your slicer-corer, but it is optional -- unless you are cooking with them.)
But I am all for counting French fries with ketchup as two veggies.
posted by Michele in California at 12:13 PM on February 25, 2017 [1 favorite]
Buy seedless. Rinse when you get home. Immediately pluck them all off the vine. They will stay fresher, longer instead of keeping the damn twig alive.
Apple:
Buy an apple slicer and corer. In one move you have a pile of slices. (You can also get a gadget for peeling them and you can do that before using your slicer-corer, but it is optional -- unless you are cooking with them.)
But I am all for counting French fries with ketchup as two veggies.
posted by Michele in California at 12:13 PM on February 25, 2017 [1 favorite]
am i going to evolve into a lil fruit bat pls say yes
WAY ahead of ya.
Warning: THE most adorable of cute GIFs.
posted by Celsius1414 at 12:16 PM on February 25, 2017 [28 favorites]
WAY ahead of ya.
Warning: THE most adorable of cute GIFs.
posted by Celsius1414 at 12:16 PM on February 25, 2017 [28 favorites]
apples slices are also very good with some nice gouda. more excuses to eat cheese!
posted by supermedusa at 12:16 PM on February 25, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by supermedusa at 12:16 PM on February 25, 2017 [1 favorite]
Yes, but what about the LD50 of fruits and veggies?
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 12:18 PM on February 25, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 12:18 PM on February 25, 2017 [2 favorites]
Eating apple seeds? Do you want trees in your colon? Cuz this is how you get trees in your colon!
posted by ian1977 at 12:18 PM on February 25, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by ian1977 at 12:18 PM on February 25, 2017 [18 favorites]
I got a bunch of wee apples from my Good Food Box last week. This thread made me so hungry that I just ate two of them down to the stems. The cores were trivial. And I've been treating the hydroponic lettuce I got, which is stored on the counter with its roots in a bit of water, as a snack machine for the past week. Just grab some crispy, non-wilted, non-disgusting leaves and chow down.
So something like a GFB may be an option for people who can easily get to a pickup point in their city. My "small" box cost $13, slightly cheaper than buying the lowest-priced equivalents at several stores within walking area of my house, and it required two shopping bags and a small backpack to bring home.
posted by maudlin at 12:23 PM on February 25, 2017 [4 favorites]
So something like a GFB may be an option for people who can easily get to a pickup point in their city. My "small" box cost $13, slightly cheaper than buying the lowest-priced equivalents at several stores within walking area of my house, and it required two shopping bags and a small backpack to bring home.
posted by maudlin at 12:23 PM on February 25, 2017 [4 favorites]
I prefer my grapes fermented, for that extra kick of "umami".
posted by Greg_Ace at 12:27 PM on February 25, 2017 [26 favorites]
posted by Greg_Ace at 12:27 PM on February 25, 2017 [26 favorites]
This had to happen because at 50 I just started successfully hitting the previous recommendations.
posted by srboisvert at 12:28 PM on February 25, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by srboisvert at 12:28 PM on February 25, 2017 [6 favorites]
Here's a link to the actual meta study itself (does a meta study even count as "new research"?) I'm not native fluent in this level of statistical analysis so hopefully someone else can help make better sense of it than the typical pop-sci news reportage hyperbole?
posted by drlith at 12:40 PM on February 25, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by drlith at 12:40 PM on February 25, 2017 [5 favorites]
And obviously, please disregard if we're only here to make jokes.
posted by drlith at 12:40 PM on February 25, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by drlith at 12:40 PM on February 25, 2017 [5 favorites]
They're cute bats, drlith.
posted by Celsius1414 at 12:43 PM on February 25, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by Celsius1414 at 12:43 PM on February 25, 2017 [14 favorites]
Went through a phase of Vitamixing green leafy veg into everything. Now even that is too much work.
posted by jeff-o-matic at 12:48 PM on February 25, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by jeff-o-matic at 12:48 PM on February 25, 2017 [1 favorite]
Or we could just live on plain pizza and nothing else.
posted by Segundus at 12:54 PM on February 25, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Segundus at 12:54 PM on February 25, 2017 [5 favorites]
grapes are kind of garbagey fruit though, aren't they? high in sugar and low in fiber? anyway i like raspberries but sometimes i get overexcited and eat half a pound in one sitting and then the rest of my day is spent in the bathroom.
posted by poffin boffin at 12:55 PM on February 25, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by poffin boffin at 12:55 PM on February 25, 2017 [10 favorites]
the rest of my day is spent in the bathroom.
Trying to get out those stupid seeds that always get stuck in between your teeth?
posted by Greg_Ace at 1:01 PM on February 25, 2017 [12 favorites]
Trying to get out those stupid seeds that always get stuck in between your teeth?
posted by Greg_Ace at 1:01 PM on February 25, 2017 [12 favorites]
Yessssssssssss.
I always felt weirdly guilty about the quantity of fruit and veggies I consume
BUT NOW
I have science on my side!
posted by Cozybee at 1:02 PM on February 25, 2017 [3 favorites]
I always felt weirdly guilty about the quantity of fruit and veggies I consume
BUT NOW
I have science on my side!
posted by Cozybee at 1:02 PM on February 25, 2017 [3 favorites]
I read some diet book about not eating sugar (secret how-to knowledge: don't eat sugar. There is no secret) and apparently cherries, grapes, mangoes, and stone fruit are bad for you because they are high sugar. I feel like if they're minimally processed you should be fine if you're not already suffering from sugar problems; they have more fiber and vitamins than donuts, and that's good enough for me.
posted by blnkfrnk at 1:10 PM on February 25, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by blnkfrnk at 1:10 PM on February 25, 2017 [3 favorites]
I thought those sorts of things were referring to refined sugar, rather than the naturally-occurring fructose found in fruits. not that I'm an expert, so grain of salt and all that
posted by Greg_Ace at 1:18 PM on February 25, 2017
posted by Greg_Ace at 1:18 PM on February 25, 2017
except I guess we're supposed to avoid salt too....
posted by Greg_Ace at 1:18 PM on February 25, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Greg_Ace at 1:18 PM on February 25, 2017 [3 favorites]
Some of us have a diagnosis where doctors tell you to eat a high salt diet.
But y'all can avoid salt. Feel free.
posted by Michele in California at 1:21 PM on February 25, 2017 [1 favorite]
But y'all can avoid salt. Feel free.
posted by Michele in California at 1:21 PM on February 25, 2017 [1 favorite]
I eat about this much fruit and veg and am still overweight and frequently constipated so idk.
posted by hazyjane at 1:22 PM on February 25, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by hazyjane at 1:22 PM on February 25, 2017 [2 favorites]
You're not wrapping them in bacon, are you?
posted by Greg_Ace at 1:26 PM on February 25, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Greg_Ace at 1:26 PM on February 25, 2017 [3 favorites]
Buy an apple slicer and corer.
And use it to make potato wedges, too.
posted by furtive_jackanapes at 1:34 PM on February 25, 2017 [3 favorites]
And use it to make potato wedges, too.
posted by furtive_jackanapes at 1:34 PM on February 25, 2017 [3 favorites]
Fregetables!
Frugables?
Vegeruits?
posted by The Underpants Monster at 1:45 PM on February 25, 2017 [2 favorites]
Frugables?
Vegeruits?
posted by The Underpants Monster at 1:45 PM on February 25, 2017 [2 favorites]
If I wrapped them in bacon I could eat 20 a day.
posted by hazyjane at 1:49 PM on February 25, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by hazyjane at 1:49 PM on February 25, 2017 [3 favorites]
My current roommate very openly admits to really not eating any vegetables. He'll eat a salad if it's there but otherwise his diet is mostly meat, bread, eggs, and the occasional hot pepper.
I have no idea how he stays alive. Also because he doesn't drink any water. Just coffee or pop. And the coffee is decaf. My other roommate and I both informed him on separate occasions that his pee should be clear which he found really surprising.
I have no idea how he's alive. But he is.
Also the best way to eat more vegetables is to make more tacos. Almost every vegetable is great in a taco. Even the stuff you might not want to eat (chard, kale, zucchini). Just cook it, throw it in a tortilla and throw some salsa verde/guacamole/crema and some feta on there and bam. Delicious.
posted by Neronomius at 1:50 PM on February 25, 2017 [2 favorites]
I have no idea how he stays alive. Also because he doesn't drink any water. Just coffee or pop. And the coffee is decaf. My other roommate and I both informed him on separate occasions that his pee should be clear which he found really surprising.
I have no idea how he's alive. But he is.
Also the best way to eat more vegetables is to make more tacos. Almost every vegetable is great in a taco. Even the stuff you might not want to eat (chard, kale, zucchini). Just cook it, throw it in a tortilla and throw some salsa verde/guacamole/crema and some feta on there and bam. Delicious.
posted by Neronomius at 1:50 PM on February 25, 2017 [2 favorites]
While I usually don't eat 800 grams of fruit in a day, it definitely isn't hard for me to hit when I manage to have sufficient fresh fruit at home. Nectarines, grapes, oranges, some varieties of apple, all delicious. I'll even eat a few blueberries and raspberries if they're knocking around.
It was a lot easier when I was a kid and could pick berries right off the vines, though. Blackberries were endemic where I lived, so the warm months were a cornucopia of snack food. On more than one occasion my parents thought I might be coming down with something because I only ate a few bites of dinner until I mentioned that I was just full because I'd been eating wild fruit all day.
posted by wierdo at 1:56 PM on February 25, 2017 [3 favorites]
It was a lot easier when I was a kid and could pick berries right off the vines, though. Blackberries were endemic where I lived, so the warm months were a cornucopia of snack food. On more than one occasion my parents thought I might be coming down with something because I only ate a few bites of dinner until I mentioned that I was just full because I'd been eating wild fruit all day.
posted by wierdo at 1:56 PM on February 25, 2017 [3 favorites]
Don't they recommend like, 17 a day in Japan? Presumably the "portion" is smaller in that case, but still.
Fruit and vegetables seem to be around 30 - 50 calories per 100g (based off four extremely cursory google searches), so 800g is only a few hundred calories. I don't eat a lot, but I feel like if I ate nearly a kilogram of stuff over the course of a day I'd feel pretty full without much else. I wonder if some of the benefit is just to do with consuming fewer calories over all.
posted by lucidium at 2:03 PM on February 25, 2017 [4 favorites]
Fruit and vegetables seem to be around 30 - 50 calories per 100g (based off four extremely cursory google searches), so 800g is only a few hundred calories. I don't eat a lot, but I feel like if I ate nearly a kilogram of stuff over the course of a day I'd feel pretty full without much else. I wonder if some of the benefit is just to do with consuming fewer calories over all.
posted by lucidium at 2:03 PM on February 25, 2017 [4 favorites]
his pee should be clear which he found really surprising
Perhaps because the clear pee thing is bullshit.
posted by srboisvert at 2:18 PM on February 25, 2017 [2 favorites]
Perhaps because the clear pee thing is bullshit.
posted by srboisvert at 2:18 PM on February 25, 2017 [2 favorites]
Perhaps because the clear pee thing is bullshit.
Oh? I didn't know that, good to know. I was mostly just talking about his general health and my amazement that he's still walking around. Didn't want to make too much of a derail.
So here are some great Rick Bayless Taco videos that deliver the goods.
Zucchini
Mushrooms
Chard (Or Spinach
More Mushrooms (because mushrooms are the best)
posted by Neronomius at 2:30 PM on February 25, 2017 [8 favorites]
Oh? I didn't know that, good to know. I was mostly just talking about his general health and my amazement that he's still walking around. Didn't want to make too much of a derail.
So here are some great Rick Bayless Taco videos that deliver the goods.
Zucchini
Mushrooms
Chard (Or Spinach
More Mushrooms (because mushrooms are the best)
posted by Neronomius at 2:30 PM on February 25, 2017 [8 favorites]
You people slice your apples?
posted by Thorzdad at 2:38 PM on February 25, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Thorzdad at 2:38 PM on February 25, 2017 [6 favorites]
I am another one who just eats apples whole like a horse.
posted by howfar at 2:41 PM on February 25, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by howfar at 2:41 PM on February 25, 2017 [11 favorites]
I eat my apples along with small stones and grit that serve to help macerate them in the muscular pouch analogous to a gizzard at the anterior of my stomach. This whole chewing with your mouth thing is faintly disgusting to me.
posted by Grimgrin at 2:57 PM on February 25, 2017 [27 favorites]
posted by Grimgrin at 2:57 PM on February 25, 2017 [27 favorites]
You people slice your apples?
How else is it going to fit in the jar of peanut butter?
posted by Celsius1414 at 3:06 PM on February 25, 2017 [17 favorites]
How else is it going to fit in the jar of peanut butter?
posted by Celsius1414 at 3:06 PM on February 25, 2017 [17 favorites]
There's got to be at least 10 servings of grapes in a bottle of wine, right?
posted by ryanrs at 3:21 PM on February 25, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by ryanrs at 3:21 PM on February 25, 2017 [13 favorites]
Yes, but what about the LD50 of fruits and veggies?
There was nothing wrong with that food! The salt level was ten percent less than a lethal dose!
posted by indubitable at 3:35 PM on February 25, 2017 [3 favorites]
There was nothing wrong with that food! The salt level was ten percent less than a lethal dose!
posted by indubitable at 3:35 PM on February 25, 2017 [3 favorites]
I pretty much eat like this just because I prefer to and I call bullshit on the health benefits. I'm not even doing it to be healthy, I just don't like rice or pasta or sugar, red meat, ice cream or pie. I hate soda, and don't even really like salt. And yet I am just as middle aged as all my friends.
posted by fshgrl at 3:40 PM on February 25, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by fshgrl at 3:40 PM on February 25, 2017 [1 favorite]
...who says we should all just cook from scratch...
There is really no other way to do this. Either cook from scratch or make fruit/veg smoothies. That's pretty much the only way to get 10 a day in. Processed food, for the most part is gonna give you way too much filler. I'm a vegetarian and probably get 5-7 a day, but only because I make a ton from scratch. To my eternal dismay because god I hate cooking.
posted by greermahoney at 4:18 PM on February 25, 2017 [2 favorites]
There is really no other way to do this. Either cook from scratch or make fruit/veg smoothies. That's pretty much the only way to get 10 a day in. Processed food, for the most part is gonna give you way too much filler. I'm a vegetarian and probably get 5-7 a day, but only because I make a ton from scratch. To my eternal dismay because god I hate cooking.
posted by greermahoney at 4:18 PM on February 25, 2017 [2 favorites]
I thought those sorts of things were referring to refined sugar, rather than the naturally-occurring fructose found in fruits.
Correct, but this book in particular also advocated for the reduction of all types of sugar in the diet, and warned that sugary fruits would bring back cravings or make it harder to not eat other sugars. I declined to pursue this.
posted by blnkfrnk at 4:58 PM on February 25, 2017 [1 favorite]
Correct, but this book in particular also advocated for the reduction of all types of sugar in the diet, and warned that sugary fruits would bring back cravings or make it harder to not eat other sugars. I declined to pursue this.
posted by blnkfrnk at 4:58 PM on February 25, 2017 [1 favorite]
You people slice your apples?
my bridge cost me $3500, you fucking better believe i'm not just gonna go chomping stuff willy nilly
posted by poffin boffin at 5:17 PM on February 25, 2017 [10 favorites]
my bridge cost me $3500, you fucking better believe i'm not just gonna go chomping stuff willy nilly
posted by poffin boffin at 5:17 PM on February 25, 2017 [10 favorites]
Onions is all I eat
posted by the uncomplicated soups of my childhood
Yeah, I guess French onion soup and tomato are pretty basic. So, I imagine you didn't grow up with Mulligatawny then?
posted by BlueHorse at 5:26 PM on February 25, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by the uncomplicated soups of my childhood
Yeah, I guess French onion soup and tomato are pretty basic. So, I imagine you didn't grow up with Mulligatawny then?
posted by BlueHorse at 5:26 PM on February 25, 2017 [2 favorites]
my bridge cost me $3500, you fucking better believe i'm not just gonna go chomping stuff willy nilly
??
your dentist didn't even offer you the Bond villain option?
posted by indubitable at 5:30 PM on February 25, 2017 [5 favorites]
??
your dentist didn't even offer you the Bond villain option?
posted by indubitable at 5:30 PM on February 25, 2017 [5 favorites]
What I find silly about these recommendations is that we're all automatically supposed to know what volume or weight constitutes a "serving". This has never been clear to me, and weighing everything seems far too fussy. Not to mention different fruits and veggies vary dramatically in density and water content. How do you eyeball what a "serving" should be?
posted by amusebuche at 5:39 PM on February 25, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by amusebuche at 5:39 PM on February 25, 2017 [1 favorite]
Bag of spinach, two bananas, couple of carrots, whatever berries are on sale (usually strawberries, sometimes blackberries and raspberries too), an avocado if one is ripe, and a cup of apple juice to make it liquidy. Blend into a slurry, pour into cups, cover, put in fridge. Bam, at least two or three servings right off the bat in the mornings.
posted by Scattercat at 6:38 PM on February 25, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Scattercat at 6:38 PM on February 25, 2017 [2 favorites]
I, apparently, am Neronomius' roommate. Like, to a tee. I'm 50, which is almost like being alive.
posted by maxwelton at 7:20 PM on February 25, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by maxwelton at 7:20 PM on February 25, 2017 [5 favorites]
And yet I am just as middle aged as all my friends.
Eating more fruits, vegetables boosts psychological well-being in just 2 weeks
posted by Celsius1414 at 7:48 PM on February 25, 2017
Eating more fruits, vegetables boosts psychological well-being in just 2 weeks
posted by Celsius1414 at 7:48 PM on February 25, 2017
I'm torn between saying "I do that, not that hard," and "I do that, it's pretty damn hard."
I started to get my diet under control and found if I eat a pound and half or two pounds of fresh greens a day I don't feel hungry for other stuff. So basically a salad for lunch, a salad before dinner and a generous helping of greens on the side of my cooked entree. After dinner fruit as a treat, and snacks are either nuts or veggies.
I'm happy with the outcome and it's actually not a struggle to eat--I enjoy everything. Lot of prep time dealing with the fresh stuff, at least for my schedule. Glad my work cafeteria has a decent salad bar.
Here's a link to the actual meta study itself (does a meta study even count as "new research"?) I'm not native fluent in this level of statistical analysis so hopefully someone else can help make better sense of it than the typical pop-sci news reportage hyperbole?
I'm not vouching for the quality of the meta-analysis itself, but this is like the *one* finding that never changes--people who eat lots of fruits and vegetables have lower cancer and heart disease.
The actual claim in the article is that risk rates keep dropping *until* around 800 g / day. If you eat 100 g that's a lot better than zero and 200 g is a lot better than 100 g. And so on. Up to 800 g. So you could also spin this as "eating more than 10 servings a day doesn't help much."
And yet I am just as middle aged as all my friends.
FWIW the specific outcomes measured are coronary disease, cancer and death.
posted by mark k at 7:53 PM on February 25, 2017 [5 favorites]
I started to get my diet under control and found if I eat a pound and half or two pounds of fresh greens a day I don't feel hungry for other stuff. So basically a salad for lunch, a salad before dinner and a generous helping of greens on the side of my cooked entree. After dinner fruit as a treat, and snacks are either nuts or veggies.
I'm happy with the outcome and it's actually not a struggle to eat--I enjoy everything. Lot of prep time dealing with the fresh stuff, at least for my schedule. Glad my work cafeteria has a decent salad bar.
Here's a link to the actual meta study itself (does a meta study even count as "new research"?) I'm not native fluent in this level of statistical analysis so hopefully someone else can help make better sense of it than the typical pop-sci news reportage hyperbole?
I'm not vouching for the quality of the meta-analysis itself, but this is like the *one* finding that never changes--people who eat lots of fruits and vegetables have lower cancer and heart disease.
The actual claim in the article is that risk rates keep dropping *until* around 800 g / day. If you eat 100 g that's a lot better than zero and 200 g is a lot better than 100 g. And so on. Up to 800 g. So you could also spin this as "eating more than 10 servings a day doesn't help much."
And yet I am just as middle aged as all my friends.
FWIW the specific outcomes measured are coronary disease, cancer and death.
posted by mark k at 7:53 PM on February 25, 2017 [5 favorites]
meh - the older i get, the fewer fruits and veggies my intestines will tolerate. i'm pretty much ready to quit greens and just stick to vitamins.
i know that vitamins can't replace the benefits of eating, but being bloated practically every waking hour of the day can't be good either.
posted by bitteroldman at 8:21 PM on February 25, 2017
i know that vitamins can't replace the benefits of eating, but being bloated practically every waking hour of the day can't be good either.
posted by bitteroldman at 8:21 PM on February 25, 2017
though i just might need to consider a low FODMAP diet.
posted by bitteroldman at 8:27 PM on February 25, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by bitteroldman at 8:27 PM on February 25, 2017 [2 favorites]
Celsius1414: So this comment kind of got away from me. I'm not saying eating more fresh fruits and vegetables are a bad thing, and I'm not trying to rag on you in particular.
The key words in that study for me are "Personal delivery". As the group that was impersonally given vouchers for fresh fruit and veg and reminders to eat them by text message "showed no improvements in psychological well-being over the 2-week period." It's also kind of sketchy that they don't talk about the change in the voucher group's diet. Then there's the point that the improvements were also not across the board as "no improvements were seen in symptoms of depression and anxiety in any of the groups." So we're already into some pretty significant qualifications as to outcomes, particularly as the structure of the study means you can equally say 'having someone give you food every day helps psychological well being'.
If you wanted an interesting follow up, in addition to these groups you'd have a group where someone give them the calorie-equivalent things like granola, yogurt and other processed but not inherently unhealthy foods, and another group where they didn't give the participants anything but asked daily about their diet and general well being. My intuition is that having a sense another human being is interested in your well being may also have psychological benefit. But that could just be me and my issues.
Your link is also a really good example of why you really have to be careful with googling for health info (currently on MeFi). You can see the entire process of fact creation here: This bit of medical science goes from a study, to a study summary that talks about some improvement in some markers of psychological health on psychological assessments when you hand deliver fresh fruit and veg for 2 weeks, to a gloss that leaves out the hand delivery and the qualified improvements and just talks about fruit and veg may help with mental health, to a headline that leaves out the 'may' and presents an unqualified fact. That said; it's even more worrying that it may be happening to doctors themselves, perhaps with 'headline is quoted in pamphlet dropped off by drug company rep' as an added step.
It's probably a bad thing that any time I start thinking through anything my mind trends towards paranoia that I don't actually know anything. I could probably do with more fresh fruit and veg in my diet.
posted by Grimgrin at 9:02 PM on February 25, 2017 [3 favorites]
The key words in that study for me are "Personal delivery". As the group that was impersonally given vouchers for fresh fruit and veg and reminders to eat them by text message "showed no improvements in psychological well-being over the 2-week period." It's also kind of sketchy that they don't talk about the change in the voucher group's diet. Then there's the point that the improvements were also not across the board as "no improvements were seen in symptoms of depression and anxiety in any of the groups." So we're already into some pretty significant qualifications as to outcomes, particularly as the structure of the study means you can equally say 'having someone give you food every day helps psychological well being'.
If you wanted an interesting follow up, in addition to these groups you'd have a group where someone give them the calorie-equivalent things like granola, yogurt and other processed but not inherently unhealthy foods, and another group where they didn't give the participants anything but asked daily about their diet and general well being. My intuition is that having a sense another human being is interested in your well being may also have psychological benefit. But that could just be me and my issues.
Your link is also a really good example of why you really have to be careful with googling for health info (currently on MeFi). You can see the entire process of fact creation here: This bit of medical science goes from a study, to a study summary that talks about some improvement in some markers of psychological health on psychological assessments when you hand deliver fresh fruit and veg for 2 weeks, to a gloss that leaves out the hand delivery and the qualified improvements and just talks about fruit and veg may help with mental health, to a headline that leaves out the 'may' and presents an unqualified fact. That said; it's even more worrying that it may be happening to doctors themselves, perhaps with 'headline is quoted in pamphlet dropped off by drug company rep' as an added step.
It's probably a bad thing that any time I start thinking through anything my mind trends towards paranoia that I don't actually know anything. I could probably do with more fresh fruit and veg in my diet.
posted by Grimgrin at 9:02 PM on February 25, 2017 [3 favorites]
Grapes:
Buy seedless. Rinse when you get home. Immediately pluck them all off the vine. They will stay fresher, longer instead of keeping the damn twig alive.
--Michele in California
Are you sure? I always thought it was the twig keeping the grape alive, in which case you should hold off plucking them as long as possible.
posted by eye of newt at 9:39 PM on February 25, 2017
Buy seedless. Rinse when you get home. Immediately pluck them all off the vine. They will stay fresher, longer instead of keeping the damn twig alive.
--Michele in California
Are you sure? I always thought it was the twig keeping the grape alive, in which case you should hold off plucking them as long as possible.
posted by eye of newt at 9:39 PM on February 25, 2017
Core your apple with a metal corer, then stuff the apple with peanut butter, then eat the apple. (If you use natural peanut butter, have a napkin ready for drips).
posted by eye of newt at 9:40 PM on February 25, 2017
posted by eye of newt at 9:40 PM on February 25, 2017
I've never understood why they say 'portions'. Even describing it in grams isn't clear to me.
They should do a study where they pick random people and ask them to guess how much a portion is or 100 grams of fruit or vegetables is. I'll bet if they pick 25 people, they'll get 25 completely different answers, which should tell them that they aren't getting their message across very clearly.
Maybe they could have this instagram type site filled with 100s of pictures of one or two portions of various fruits and vegetables.
posted by eye of newt at 9:45 PM on February 25, 2017 [7 favorites]
They should do a study where they pick random people and ask them to guess how much a portion is or 100 grams of fruit or vegetables is. I'll bet if they pick 25 people, they'll get 25 completely different answers, which should tell them that they aren't getting their message across very clearly.
Maybe they could have this instagram type site filled with 100s of pictures of one or two portions of various fruits and vegetables.
posted by eye of newt at 9:45 PM on February 25, 2017 [7 favorites]
I read some diet book about not eating sugar (secret how-to knowledge: don't eat sugar. There is no secret) and apparently cherries, grapes, mangoes, and stone fruit are bad for you because they are high sugar.--blnkfrnk
Yes, but I've also seen studies that show that the bad effects of sugar don't show up so much when the sugar is from eating any kind of fruit (assuming you aren't getting it extra concentrated and without fiber, such as in a large glass of juice).
posted by eye of newt at 9:47 PM on February 25, 2017 [2 favorites]
Yes, but I've also seen studies that show that the bad effects of sugar don't show up so much when the sugar is from eating any kind of fruit (assuming you aren't getting it extra concentrated and without fiber, such as in a large glass of juice).
posted by eye of newt at 9:47 PM on February 25, 2017 [2 favorites]
There is really no other way to do this. Either cook from scratch or make fruit/veg smoothies. That's pretty much the only way to get 10 a day in.
no but perhaps I am missing a joke but you just eat them.* like not in a blended slurry or anything, just with your face. god knows you don't have to but fruits and vegetables are the idler's friend because they are the only basic foodstuff you don't have to process if you don't feel like it. can't say that for a raw chicken or a bag of flour.**
* most anything but a lemon or an onion, and some people are enterprising even with those. no one can stop you even if they would like to.
** bag of sugar is a different story
posted by queenofbithynia at 10:03 PM on February 25, 2017 [12 favorites]
no but perhaps I am missing a joke but you just eat them.* like not in a blended slurry or anything, just with your face. god knows you don't have to but fruits and vegetables are the idler's friend because they are the only basic foodstuff you don't have to process if you don't feel like it. can't say that for a raw chicken or a bag of flour.**
* most anything but a lemon or an onion, and some people are enterprising even with those. no one can stop you even if they would like to.
** bag of sugar is a different story
posted by queenofbithynia at 10:03 PM on February 25, 2017 [12 favorites]
Yes, but I've also seen studies that show that the bad effects of sugar don't show up so much when the sugar is from eating any kind of fruit.
For sure some of the harm of sugar is a sugar spike. Fiber slows down the absorption. (Of course my family would soak strawberries in sugar and which gets juicy and sweet is just wonderful to put on ice cream or shortcake. It's conceivable this may mitigate the protection offered by the fiber.)
Also, assuming you don't treat your fruit like we did, it's just way less sugar. You could eat a pound of strawberries or blueberries and get less sugar than a can of coca cola.
My intuition is that having a sense another human being is interested in your well being may also have psychological benefit. But that could just be me and my issues.
No, it's not you. One of the cliches is that any intervention has an effect. It's one reason you have a control but a control on its own is not enough.
To be clear though it looks like they got their servings at the start and not in daily deliveries. I know the news article says otherwise. Also the group that *just* ate more fruits and vegetables didn't do measurably better according to the paper. I'm not impressed by the paper, which doesn't mean much not my field etc., but the news article is indeed horrible.
posted by mark k at 10:55 PM on February 25, 2017 [3 favorites]
For sure some of the harm of sugar is a sugar spike. Fiber slows down the absorption. (Of course my family would soak strawberries in sugar and which gets juicy and sweet is just wonderful to put on ice cream or shortcake. It's conceivable this may mitigate the protection offered by the fiber.)
Also, assuming you don't treat your fruit like we did, it's just way less sugar. You could eat a pound of strawberries or blueberries and get less sugar than a can of coca cola.
My intuition is that having a sense another human being is interested in your well being may also have psychological benefit. But that could just be me and my issues.
No, it's not you. One of the cliches is that any intervention has an effect. It's one reason you have a control but a control on its own is not enough.
To be clear though it looks like they got their servings at the start and not in daily deliveries. I know the news article says otherwise. Also the group that *just* ate more fruits and vegetables didn't do measurably better according to the paper. I'm not impressed by the paper, which doesn't mean much not my field etc., but the news article is indeed horrible.
posted by mark k at 10:55 PM on February 25, 2017 [3 favorites]
if I eat a pound and half or two pounds of fresh greens a day I don't feel hungry for other stuff
are you a panda, tell the truth
posted by poffin boffin at 12:38 AM on February 26, 2017 [13 favorites]
are you a panda, tell the truth
posted by poffin boffin at 12:38 AM on February 26, 2017 [13 favorites]
Core your apple with a metal corer, then stuff the apple with peanut butter, then eat the apple.
OR you could fill it with the cheese gun
posted by poffin boffin at 12:40 AM on February 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
OR you could fill it with the cheese gun
posted by poffin boffin at 12:40 AM on February 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
You could eat a pound of strawberries or blueberries and get less sugar than a can of coca cola.
Actually a pound of blueberries has about 45 grams of sugar while a can of coke has about 39. I'd MUCH rather have the blueberries though.
(Source: USDA National Nutrient Database for Blueberries, raw.
posted by Rufous-headed Towhee heehee at 1:35 AM on February 26, 2017
Actually a pound of blueberries has about 45 grams of sugar while a can of coke has about 39. I'd MUCH rather have the blueberries though.
(Source: USDA National Nutrient Database for Blueberries, raw.
posted by Rufous-headed Towhee heehee at 1:35 AM on February 26, 2017
Eat food. Mostly plants. Not too much.
Don't smoke.
Be active.
Everything else is a game of microscopic percentages.
Booze, laugh, cry, hug, dance. Won't make any difference, but it will make your existence worthwhile.
posted by Combat Wombat at 5:13 AM on February 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
Don't smoke.
Be active.
Everything else is a game of microscopic percentages.
Booze, laugh, cry, hug, dance. Won't make any difference, but it will make your existence worthwhile.
posted by Combat Wombat at 5:13 AM on February 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
Just saw this. This seems physically simple and easy but psychologically difficult as hell. No cocktails? No cookies?
posted by gt2 at 5:22 AM on February 26, 2017
posted by gt2 at 5:22 AM on February 26, 2017
Sigh. This scene from Sleeper. "You mean there was no deep fat? No steak or cream pies, or hot fudge?"
posted by kinnakeet at 5:46 AM on February 26, 2017
posted by kinnakeet at 5:46 AM on February 26, 2017
My personal preference is to eat a lot of fruits and vegetables. I'm not going to say I have any sort of special willpower, or anything - I've just never really liked starch-heavy foods. 10 servings seems high, but not extreme, to me.
Now I'm doing fieldwork in an area where most meals are starch-based and I've gained 15 pounds and my face is a mess. It's really pretty surprising. Maybe it's a coincidence, but it doesn't feel like it.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 6:09 AM on February 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
Now I'm doing fieldwork in an area where most meals are starch-based and I've gained 15 pounds and my face is a mess. It's really pretty surprising. Maybe it's a coincidence, but it doesn't feel like it.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 6:09 AM on February 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
Actually a pound of blueberries has about 45 grams of sugar while a can of coke has about 39. I'd MUCH rather have the blueberries though.
Uggh, you're right, sorry. Screwed up kg to lbs conversion in my head last night, which isn't that hard. I would have made the same mistake with strawberries. So more "you can eat almost a pound of blueberries or strawberries" before you get the sugar in a can of soda.
I think the implication is the same. A pound of blueberries is maybe 3 cups or more.
posted by mark k at 8:29 AM on February 26, 2017
Uggh, you're right, sorry. Screwed up kg to lbs conversion in my head last night, which isn't that hard. I would have made the same mistake with strawberries. So more "you can eat almost a pound of blueberries or strawberries" before you get the sugar in a can of soda.
I think the implication is the same. A pound of blueberries is maybe 3 cups or more.
posted by mark k at 8:29 AM on February 26, 2017
As a skinny single person there's no way I can eat this much fresh fruit and vegetables fast enough unless I go shopping every day. I'm surprised no one's brought up the expense of it relative to processed foods.
posted by AFABulous at 9:33 AM on February 26, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by AFABulous at 9:33 AM on February 26, 2017 [5 favorites]
I'd probably lose weight, too, which is Not Good.
posted by AFABulous at 9:34 AM on February 26, 2017
posted by AFABulous at 9:34 AM on February 26, 2017
I think the implication is the same. A pound of blueberries is maybe 3 cups or more.
I haven't measured but since I adore blueberries, it's not hard when they're in season to polish off two pounds in an evening. Nom!
I want to eat more veggies and fruits, they seem a lot more interesting in terms of color, flavor, texture and variety than meat, but I fall into preparation ruts and then I get bored. I bought a cookbook years ago called The Passionate Vegetarian (even though I'm not a vegetarian) that helped me a bit with breaking out of boring veggie dishes, I should dig that book up again.
Also I agree with the problem of keeping produce fresh if you don't shop every few days. I wish I could find an ideal produce refrigerator that kept different things fresh for at least a week. As it is, running to the store every few days can be time consuming and takes gas.
posted by Rufous-headed Towhee heehee at 10:45 AM on February 26, 2017
I haven't measured but since I adore blueberries, it's not hard when they're in season to polish off two pounds in an evening. Nom!
I want to eat more veggies and fruits, they seem a lot more interesting in terms of color, flavor, texture and variety than meat, but I fall into preparation ruts and then I get bored. I bought a cookbook years ago called The Passionate Vegetarian (even though I'm not a vegetarian) that helped me a bit with breaking out of boring veggie dishes, I should dig that book up again.
Also I agree with the problem of keeping produce fresh if you don't shop every few days. I wish I could find an ideal produce refrigerator that kept different things fresh for at least a week. As it is, running to the store every few days can be time consuming and takes gas.
posted by Rufous-headed Towhee heehee at 10:45 AM on February 26, 2017
Grapes... buy seedless grapes in a bag, store in the fridge, give them a quick rinse just before eating.
I actually wash my grapes with a bit of salt added in. I learned it from my parents who told me it was to make them more clean. I don't know if that's true, but I think the salt does add a little bt more to the flavor.
And speaking of which, if you're like me and having trouble eating more fruit, you can always add a little salt, spice, and/or sour to try to change it up a little. Mexican Chamoy (same one used in the currently trendy Chamango) or Southeast Asian Sour Plum Powder both help with that (Hawaiians also use the powder as well). There's also chili salt with lemon or lime, or even just some Tapatio will work in a pinch.
posted by FJT at 10:53 AM on February 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
I actually wash my grapes with a bit of salt added in. I learned it from my parents who told me it was to make them more clean. I don't know if that's true, but I think the salt does add a little bt more to the flavor.
And speaking of which, if you're like me and having trouble eating more fruit, you can always add a little salt, spice, and/or sour to try to change it up a little. Mexican Chamoy (same one used in the currently trendy Chamango) or Southeast Asian Sour Plum Powder both help with that (Hawaiians also use the powder as well). There's also chili salt with lemon or lime, or even just some Tapatio will work in a pinch.
posted by FJT at 10:53 AM on February 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
there's no way I can eat this much fresh fruit and vegetables fast enough unless I go shopping every day
The article doesn't specify fresh produce. I'm sure frozen would be just as good for you.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 11:24 AM on February 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
The article doesn't specify fresh produce. I'm sure frozen would be just as good for you.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 11:24 AM on February 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
For me, the only way I can handle the expense of really stepping up eating fruits and vegetables is thusly:
1. Mostly vegetables, which are somewhat better for you than fruit anyway. Carrots, cabbage, cauliflower and onions are bulky and fairly cheap. Also, some of these vegetable studies count sweet potatoes as a vegetable, and those are cheap. I don't eat a lot of leafy greens because they're expensive per serving. Also frozen peas are pretty cheap and they make a nice change.
2. Bell peppers. If you slice up a bell pepper and take it in your lunch, you've got two servings/1C of vegetables already.
3. Baby carrots - about twelve baby carrots is another cup. Now we're up to four.
4. Two apples, whose pectin and polyphenols lower cholesterol. Now we're up to six. Apples are expensive when eaten in quantity.
5. Let's assume that lunch contained one other serving - an additional fruit or some vegetables in a main dish, etc. Now we're at seven.
6. Dinner is a big dish with a substantial vegetable component - today I'm going to make chickpea flour socca with a whole lightly carmelized onion. A big onion is a generous two servings. Now we're nine-and-a-bit and we'll call it good. On another day I might have mashed cauliflower with a fried egg, or sweet potato hash, or osaka-ish cabbage pancakes.
What I've found is that foods I can eat without cooking (bell peppers, carrots, fruit) make up about 2/3 of vegetable consumption. Sliced bell peppers are a miracle food - sweet, crunchy, easy to eat.
Also, savory pancakes of various kinds are my fallback meal.
We don't live in a society which is really designed for eating this much fruit and vegetables. If I wanted more variety I couldn't afford it. As it is, I am lucky that I don't generally eat meat or fish, since I certainly couldn't afford any on top of the vegetables.
(Also, one especially broke summer advicepig gave me a cabbage! And some other stuff! That cabbage was especially nourishing because it came through mefite solidarity, which improves vitamin absorption.)
posted by Frowner at 12:09 PM on February 26, 2017 [7 favorites]
1. Mostly vegetables, which are somewhat better for you than fruit anyway. Carrots, cabbage, cauliflower and onions are bulky and fairly cheap. Also, some of these vegetable studies count sweet potatoes as a vegetable, and those are cheap. I don't eat a lot of leafy greens because they're expensive per serving. Also frozen peas are pretty cheap and they make a nice change.
2. Bell peppers. If you slice up a bell pepper and take it in your lunch, you've got two servings/1C of vegetables already.
3. Baby carrots - about twelve baby carrots is another cup. Now we're up to four.
4. Two apples, whose pectin and polyphenols lower cholesterol. Now we're up to six. Apples are expensive when eaten in quantity.
5. Let's assume that lunch contained one other serving - an additional fruit or some vegetables in a main dish, etc. Now we're at seven.
6. Dinner is a big dish with a substantial vegetable component - today I'm going to make chickpea flour socca with a whole lightly carmelized onion. A big onion is a generous two servings. Now we're nine-and-a-bit and we'll call it good. On another day I might have mashed cauliflower with a fried egg, or sweet potato hash, or osaka-ish cabbage pancakes.
What I've found is that foods I can eat without cooking (bell peppers, carrots, fruit) make up about 2/3 of vegetable consumption. Sliced bell peppers are a miracle food - sweet, crunchy, easy to eat.
Also, savory pancakes of various kinds are my fallback meal.
We don't live in a society which is really designed for eating this much fruit and vegetables. If I wanted more variety I couldn't afford it. As it is, I am lucky that I don't generally eat meat or fish, since I certainly couldn't afford any on top of the vegetables.
(Also, one especially broke summer advicepig gave me a cabbage! And some other stuff! That cabbage was especially nourishing because it came through mefite solidarity, which improves vitamin absorption.)
posted by Frowner at 12:09 PM on February 26, 2017 [7 favorites]
I'd probably lose weight, too, which is Not Good.
posted by AFABulous at 9:34 AM on February 26
Not necessarily. My son and I both have the same medical condition. I was quite plump. He was a bag of bones. We both made essentially the same dietary changes to improve our nutritional status. I have lost several dress sizes. He has stopped being a bag of bones and has a healthy amount of muscle for the first time ever.
Seconding that frozen is acceptable. It does not all have to be fresh produce, but you should not overcook it. Stir fry is better than, say, most Southern style vegetable dishes.
posted by Michele in California at 12:27 PM on February 26, 2017
posted by AFABulous at 9:34 AM on February 26
Not necessarily. My son and I both have the same medical condition. I was quite plump. He was a bag of bones. We both made essentially the same dietary changes to improve our nutritional status. I have lost several dress sizes. He has stopped being a bag of bones and has a healthy amount of muscle for the first time ever.
Seconding that frozen is acceptable. It does not all have to be fresh produce, but you should not overcook it. Stir fry is better than, say, most Southern style vegetable dishes.
posted by Michele in California at 12:27 PM on February 26, 2017
Store greens in your salad spinner and they stay good all week. Oxo makes a basket in a tub storage container that does the same thing but anything that regulates moisture will work. A head of lettuce us a couple bucks and stores well that way.
posted by fshgrl at 12:28 PM on February 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by fshgrl at 12:28 PM on February 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
Actually a pound of blueberries has about 45 grams of sugar while a can of coke has about 39. I'd MUCH rather have the blueberries though.
The weird thing though is that most of the nutrition research shows that fruit sugar is somehow metabolized differently from sugar as an added ingredient. Possibly something to with speed of metabolizing and insulin response. There are weird studies about drinking orange juice in the morning being prophylactic with regard to insulin responses later in the day. (Though there was the disturbing scene in the Michael Mosely documentary on the BBC about diet and weight where an overweight woman who ate fruit for breakfast felt her diet was good but when they observed her at breakfast she was eating a large mixing bowl of fruit).
Now I take almost all dietary research with large quantities of salt. Preferably large flakes of sea salt collected by Frenchmen in berets. Almost all the explanations are wildly speculative and at best inferences from correlations found in unreliable self report data and so on. The research is often contradictory and frequently overturned.
But...
I read "How not to die" and while I wasn't particularly persuaded by the Chomsky-esque level of research footnotery I was persuaded by one small paragraph in the book to make changes to my own diet.
The point that got me was the idea that the human body is a self-healing mechanism that can withstand a fair bit of abuse and still recover. Eating 'bad' foods was likened to hitting yourself with a hammer. You can and will recover from hitting yourself with a hammer once in a while. But you won't recover if you hit yourself several times a day every single day.
So the way I look at it now is that there is some plausible evidence for the notions of micro-nutrients and metabolic benefits to whole foods, there is a fair bit of pretty conclusive evidence for some types of food being actively bad (preservatives, refined sugar and some additives) and huge evidence for the risks of high calorie foods and consequent obesity.
Given that evidence it seems reasonable to increase both fruit and veg where possible due to the putative nutritional and metabolic benefits but also simply due to the displacement effects. If you fill up on fruit and veg you won't, or perhaps more accurately you shouldn't, eat as many of the actively bad things. You might also decrease your total caloric intake because it is harder to get your kcals from fruit and veg than a bag of chips, a can of soda or McDonald's fries.
I'd like to say I've experienced big positive differences in my health but I haven't really. This might be because it is coincident with my getting old so the effects are obscured by my aging. I do feel better about how I eat though and I feel less guilt when I do get "hammered".
posted by srboisvert at 1:55 PM on February 26, 2017 [6 favorites]
The weird thing though is that most of the nutrition research shows that fruit sugar is somehow metabolized differently from sugar as an added ingredient. Possibly something to with speed of metabolizing and insulin response. There are weird studies about drinking orange juice in the morning being prophylactic with regard to insulin responses later in the day. (Though there was the disturbing scene in the Michael Mosely documentary on the BBC about diet and weight where an overweight woman who ate fruit for breakfast felt her diet was good but when they observed her at breakfast she was eating a large mixing bowl of fruit).
Now I take almost all dietary research with large quantities of salt. Preferably large flakes of sea salt collected by Frenchmen in berets. Almost all the explanations are wildly speculative and at best inferences from correlations found in unreliable self report data and so on. The research is often contradictory and frequently overturned.
But...
I read "How not to die" and while I wasn't particularly persuaded by the Chomsky-esque level of research footnotery I was persuaded by one small paragraph in the book to make changes to my own diet.
The point that got me was the idea that the human body is a self-healing mechanism that can withstand a fair bit of abuse and still recover. Eating 'bad' foods was likened to hitting yourself with a hammer. You can and will recover from hitting yourself with a hammer once in a while. But you won't recover if you hit yourself several times a day every single day.
So the way I look at it now is that there is some plausible evidence for the notions of micro-nutrients and metabolic benefits to whole foods, there is a fair bit of pretty conclusive evidence for some types of food being actively bad (preservatives, refined sugar and some additives) and huge evidence for the risks of high calorie foods and consequent obesity.
Given that evidence it seems reasonable to increase both fruit and veg where possible due to the putative nutritional and metabolic benefits but also simply due to the displacement effects. If you fill up on fruit and veg you won't, or perhaps more accurately you shouldn't, eat as many of the actively bad things. You might also decrease your total caloric intake because it is harder to get your kcals from fruit and veg than a bag of chips, a can of soda or McDonald's fries.
I'd like to say I've experienced big positive differences in my health but I haven't really. This might be because it is coincident with my getting old so the effects are obscured by my aging. I do feel better about how I eat though and I feel less guilt when I do get "hammered".
posted by srboisvert at 1:55 PM on February 26, 2017 [6 favorites]
For anyone who wants to eat more fruit, I recommend a yonanas (or a cheap knockoff). Banana and other fruit "ice cream". We drizzle a little honey on ours. It's pretty delicious.
posted by hazyjane at 11:10 AM on February 27, 2017
posted by hazyjane at 11:10 AM on February 27, 2017
So, what do we do about all of the flatulence that comes with this increase? Shall I buy stock in Beano now?
posted by soelo at 11:28 AM on February 27, 2017
posted by soelo at 11:28 AM on February 27, 2017
So, what do we do about all of the flatulence that comes with this increase? Shall I buy stock in Beano now?
If you eat fruit and veg on the regular you will have less trouble with flatulence as the bacteria that break it down will change and be further from your colon. Also if you are replacing things like carbonated beverages you should see a net decrease in flatulence because carbonation is a major fart source.
posted by srboisvert at 2:34 PM on February 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
As with most drugs, you'll quickly develop a tolerance to beans and will need to eat greater and greater quantities to achieve the same effects.
posted by ryanrs at 6:01 PM on February 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by ryanrs at 6:01 PM on February 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
Eating apple seeds? Do you want trees in your colon? Cuz this is how you get trees in your colon!
Also, if you eat a bowl of apple seeds, there's enough cyanide to kill you. So try not to do that.
https://www.quora.com/Approximately-how-much-cyanide-is-in-an-apple-seed
posted by sebastienbailard at 7:30 AM on February 28, 2017
Also, if you eat a bowl of apple seeds, there's enough cyanide to kill you. So try not to do that.
https://www.quora.com/Approximately-how-much-cyanide-is-in-an-apple-seed
posted by sebastienbailard at 7:30 AM on February 28, 2017
Clickbaity Guardian piece about the OMG SO MUCH EFFORT new guidelines: The 10-a-day diet tested: 'I feel like a sentient composter'
Spoiler: it's not actually that hard, but don't let that stop us from whinging for funsies.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:53 AM on February 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
Spoiler: it's not actually that hard, but don't let that stop us from whinging for funsies.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:53 AM on February 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
Okay, I'm sorry, I'm going to differ with the NHS in the Guardian article. Apparently, they say that you can't "double up", eg eat multiple servings of beans or fruit or whatever - that still only counts as one serving because the mixture of vitamins and minerals isn't diverse enough. So in theory one should not only eat ten servings of fruits and vegetables per day, but they should all be different.
I can't afford that. Like, I literally cannot afford that. My entire vegetable-consumption plan is based on buying large quantities of fairly cheap vegetables - cauliflower, cabbage, sweet potatoes, carrots, onions, frozen peas, bell peppers - and then making fairly big dishes out of them.
And what's more, I think it's bullshit. If I eat a variety of vegetables over a week, I don't think it really matters that much if I eat cauliflower, carrots, bell peppers and onion on Monday and sweet potatoes, peas and apples on Tuesday rather than eating a single serving of carrots, a single serving of bell peppers, a single serving of apple, a single serving of peas, etc every single day.
posted by Frowner at 8:12 AM on February 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
I can't afford that. Like, I literally cannot afford that. My entire vegetable-consumption plan is based on buying large quantities of fairly cheap vegetables - cauliflower, cabbage, sweet potatoes, carrots, onions, frozen peas, bell peppers - and then making fairly big dishes out of them.
And what's more, I think it's bullshit. If I eat a variety of vegetables over a week, I don't think it really matters that much if I eat cauliflower, carrots, bell peppers and onion on Monday and sweet potatoes, peas and apples on Tuesday rather than eating a single serving of carrots, a single serving of bell peppers, a single serving of apple, a single serving of peas, etc every single day.
posted by Frowner at 8:12 AM on February 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
I agree. It's bullshit from a nutritional standpoint, from a cost standpoint, and also because too much variety = green slime in the fridge. (Sure, you can reduce waste by eating more frozen fruit and veg, but this still assumes that you have enough freezer space for storage and that you can hit the right sales at the right times for you.)
The NHS stance reminds me of the original Diet for a Small Planet advice from the 70s (now revised): combine your plant protein sources in the correct proportions at every.single.meal or else you'll never get enough "complete" protein. These days, it's generally recognized that eating a variety of plant sources over a day will do, and that many plant sources DO have all the amino acids, just not necessarily in optimal ratios, and really, you don't need to be optimal all or most of the time.
posted by maudlin at 9:01 AM on February 28, 2017
The NHS stance reminds me of the original Diet for a Small Planet advice from the 70s (now revised): combine your plant protein sources in the correct proportions at every.single.meal or else you'll never get enough "complete" protein. These days, it's generally recognized that eating a variety of plant sources over a day will do, and that many plant sources DO have all the amino acids, just not necessarily in optimal ratios, and really, you don't need to be optimal all or most of the time.
posted by maudlin at 9:01 AM on February 28, 2017
MetaFilter: whinging for funsies.
posted by Celsius1414 at 9:14 AM on February 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Celsius1414 at 9:14 AM on February 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
The research is often contradictory and frequently overturned.
As you allude to a bit in your follow up, the one bit of advice that is constant is lots of vegetables are good. (I'm not a vegetarian, let alone an evangelist. It's just what the research always says. Bruce Ames of Ames test fame made that point at least twenty years ago and it still holds up in every study.)
I would go further and say a lot of the fads that get picked up feel like an attempt to find something other than eating greens that will do the magic. What if you have a big juicy stake, potatoes, and a vitamin pill every day? No? Maybe it's folic acid? Bran flakes? Vegetable fats? No carbs? No sugar? Less sitting? Something?
Apparently, they [NHS] say that you can't "double up", eg eat multiple servings of beans or fruit or whatever - that still only counts as one serving because the mixture of vitamins and minerals isn't diverse enough. So in theory one should not only eat ten servings of fruits and vegetables per day, but they should all be different.
It's not exactly what they say but having followed through, it is distressingly close.
This is one reason nutrition advice is so frustrating. There is no way that the claim "get a variety every single day" is as remotely well attested to as "eat a lot of vegetables." Getting variety is partly common sense and there are reasons to think it would help a bit but they just toss it out there on the FAQ as if it's just as critical a part of the guidelines, instantly making it nigh impossible to follow the sound advice.
posted by mark k at 10:45 PM on February 28, 2017
As you allude to a bit in your follow up, the one bit of advice that is constant is lots of vegetables are good. (I'm not a vegetarian, let alone an evangelist. It's just what the research always says. Bruce Ames of Ames test fame made that point at least twenty years ago and it still holds up in every study.)
I would go further and say a lot of the fads that get picked up feel like an attempt to find something other than eating greens that will do the magic. What if you have a big juicy stake, potatoes, and a vitamin pill every day? No? Maybe it's folic acid? Bran flakes? Vegetable fats? No carbs? No sugar? Less sitting? Something?
Apparently, they [NHS] say that you can't "double up", eg eat multiple servings of beans or fruit or whatever - that still only counts as one serving because the mixture of vitamins and minerals isn't diverse enough. So in theory one should not only eat ten servings of fruits and vegetables per day, but they should all be different.
It's not exactly what they say but having followed through, it is distressingly close.
This is one reason nutrition advice is so frustrating. There is no way that the claim "get a variety every single day" is as remotely well attested to as "eat a lot of vegetables." Getting variety is partly common sense and there are reasons to think it would help a bit but they just toss it out there on the FAQ as if it's just as critical a part of the guidelines, instantly making it nigh impossible to follow the sound advice.
posted by mark k at 10:45 PM on February 28, 2017
Ok I'll be honest, I don't really see what all the fuss is about. Fruit and veg taste great and most of them keep pretty well if you store them correctly. Plus many freeze very well. So yesterday I ate blueberries on my porridge and a banana, an apple and some clementines for a snack. A big mixed salad for lunch (lettuce tomato cucumber mixed beans peas onion carrot peppers etc). For dinner I had chicken with sweet potato fries and roasted veg (chopped kale and broccoli and cherry tomatoes, roasted with garlic, chopped chilies and olive oil, splash of lemon juice). Frozen grapes for dessert. That's over ten and the only things that were expensive were the blueberries and also the salad was £3.50 (Under $5) as I bought it from the deli but could easily have made my own. Dinner took 35 minutes to cook and most of that was inactive waiting time.
posted by hazyjane at 10:46 PM on February 28, 2017
posted by hazyjane at 10:46 PM on February 28, 2017
As with most drugs, you'll quickly develop a tolerance to beans and will need to eat greater and greater quantities to achieve the same effects.
I never dreamed that you could fart yourself high, but it does explain the occasional behaviour of certain people I have been acquainted with.
posted by Segundus at 4:38 AM on March 1, 2017
I never dreamed that you could fart yourself high, but it does explain the occasional behaviour of certain people I have been acquainted with.
posted by Segundus at 4:38 AM on March 1, 2017
Whinging for Funsies, Sunday afternoons, right after Bowling for Dollars, here on WMFR-TV.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 5:17 AM on March 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by The Underpants Monster at 5:17 AM on March 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
> Ok I'll be honest, I don't really see what all the fuss is about
All that chewing. There are only so many smoothies I can stand to drink.
posted by The corpse in the library at 1:04 PM on March 1, 2017
All that chewing. There are only so many smoothies I can stand to drink.
posted by The corpse in the library at 1:04 PM on March 1, 2017
Does Kimchi count as a serving of vegetable?
Whether or not it is, there are other health benefits to eating fermented foods. And also I'm actually having a really good time mixing small amounts in and eating it with fresh veggies like carrots or even kale.
posted by FJT at 8:34 PM on March 13, 2017
Whether or not it is, there are other health benefits to eating fermented foods. And also I'm actually having a really good time mixing small amounts in and eating it with fresh veggies like carrots or even kale.
posted by FJT at 8:34 PM on March 13, 2017
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Extrapolating from his numbers, waiting for his next breakthrough might be the best strategy here.
posted by effbot at 11:20 AM on February 25, 2017 [3 favorites]