Grieving the loss of sex
March 13, 2017 1:27 PM Subscribe
After Alice Radosh’s husband of 40 years died in 2013, she received, in addition to the usual condolences, countless offers of help with matters like finances, her car and household repairs. But no one, not even close friends or grief counselors, dared to discuss a nagging need that plagues many older women and men who outlive their sexual partners.
I wish it had some suggestions for what to say. "Wow, that must be hard not getting banged on the regular"? I would have no idea how to broach that topic. I don't like talking about sex with my friends as a general principle.
posted by AFABulous at 1:54 PM on March 13, 2017 [21 favorites]
posted by AFABulous at 1:54 PM on March 13, 2017 [21 favorites]
The gentle setting up of widows and widowers, after about a year, is still a thing, isn't it? It's very, very hard to know, of course. My grandmother saw another fellow for a while, but eventually she decided to be a solitary person.
posted by Countess Elena at 2:01 PM on March 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Countess Elena at 2:01 PM on March 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
There is only one way to console a widow. But remember the risk. — Lazarus Long
gulp
posted by lazaruslong at 2:08 PM on March 13, 2017 [59 favorites]
gulp
posted by lazaruslong at 2:08 PM on March 13, 2017 [59 favorites]
This has been one of the hardest parts of figuring out my new situation in life as an unhappily divorced guy in middle age. Sex is something I still want and need in my life, but I don't want to be an asshole or dishonest. At the same time, I'm still far too emotionally vulnerable and wounded to be prepared to begin a serious longer term relationship without risk of doing more emotional harm to myself or harming someone else with my own emotional baggage. And casual sex isn't something I've ever found I can be deeply satisfied with; I generally need mutual emotional connection and some sense of meaning or sex just seems like a more elaborate and risky form of masturbation, which doesn't fill the need for intimacy and deeper trust either. I get no thrill out of "the game" or whatever, personally, it just seems to cheapen what to me seems like it should be meaningful and connected to a deeper social relation. Whether that's due to socialization, quirks of personal temperament or what, I can't say, but I don't see it as a character flaw that needs correction but have been surprised to encounter that attitude since I've been on my own.
It's a tough problem because of course nobody's entitled to sex, but for many of us, a healthy sex life is a real mental and physical health need. In fact, at least clinically, it's well understood a healthy (meaning balanced, not necessarily super prolific and promiscuous) sex life is important for general health and well being. But navigating that murky ethical and social terrain without losing your soul in the process, if you're in a situation like mine, can seem confusing and very stressful. Lately I've been thinking I'm just not sure what the healthiest way to move on with my romantic life is. I miss physical intimacy coupled with emotional intimacy so much it aches, but even something as simple as a good hug from a friend can sometimes be enough to ease the feeling of loss in the very short term; other times it seems like only sex could really help. I haven't been completely chaste, but I haven't really found a way to adapt and find satisfaction either, so I'm really pleased to see some discussion on this topic, as I see it as a public health question, in some ways, that we're too often unwilling to discuss straightforwardly and without stigmatizing and shaming people for being human.
posted by saulgoodman at 2:11 PM on March 13, 2017 [49 favorites]
It's a tough problem because of course nobody's entitled to sex, but for many of us, a healthy sex life is a real mental and physical health need. In fact, at least clinically, it's well understood a healthy (meaning balanced, not necessarily super prolific and promiscuous) sex life is important for general health and well being. But navigating that murky ethical and social terrain without losing your soul in the process, if you're in a situation like mine, can seem confusing and very stressful. Lately I've been thinking I'm just not sure what the healthiest way to move on with my romantic life is. I miss physical intimacy coupled with emotional intimacy so much it aches, but even something as simple as a good hug from a friend can sometimes be enough to ease the feeling of loss in the very short term; other times it seems like only sex could really help. I haven't been completely chaste, but I haven't really found a way to adapt and find satisfaction either, so I'm really pleased to see some discussion on this topic, as I see it as a public health question, in some ways, that we're too often unwilling to discuss straightforwardly and without stigmatizing and shaming people for being human.
posted by saulgoodman at 2:11 PM on March 13, 2017 [49 favorites]
This has been tough for me since my divorce as well. What was previously considered a good healthy amount of sex feels almost pathological as I try to get anything close to it now; I'm thankful for Tinder, but the amount of logistical/emotional effort it sucks from me is huge. Yet another reason for legalizing sex work.
posted by metasarah at 2:55 PM on March 13, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by metasarah at 2:55 PM on March 13, 2017 [7 favorites]
Mod note: Couple comments removed, let's not mistake complex subject of sexual intimacy for can't-they-just-masturbate.
posted by cortex (staff) at 2:56 PM on March 13, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by cortex (staff) at 2:56 PM on March 13, 2017 [19 favorites]
This makes me so sad that talking about intimacy at all is just a thing we don't do. People barely even have language to talk about the connection between adult siblings or long-time friends much less life partners and I think the relationships themselves suffer for it.
I'd probably err to the side of extreme caution discussing it with a bereaved friend, if we didn't have pre-bereavement conversations about sexuality and intimacy, since there's people who don't have happy sex lives and they don't need to feel guilty about that on top of everything else, so I wouldn't want to make assumptions. Women, in particular, get so much baggage and grief about how they do or don't do whatever it is they are or are not supposed to be doing, and that baggage doesn't stop just because their partner dies.
But, of course, part of that baggage is that women aren't supposed to want sex or sexual intimacy, and a woman who is no longer young is just gross and useless sexually anyway. Men are assumed to actually require sex - and gratitude to be "free" of the previous partner - or they will die or explode or something, which is a heavy burden on men who are suffering.
I don't think we can fix any of this unless we strive for at least more nuanced emotional intelligence in our friendships and relationships. You can talk to your friends about connection without dishing all the nitty gritty on your sex life or squicking anybody out, it just takes a little bit of effort.
posted by Lyn Never at 3:06 PM on March 13, 2017 [14 favorites]
I'd probably err to the side of extreme caution discussing it with a bereaved friend, if we didn't have pre-bereavement conversations about sexuality and intimacy, since there's people who don't have happy sex lives and they don't need to feel guilty about that on top of everything else, so I wouldn't want to make assumptions. Women, in particular, get so much baggage and grief about how they do or don't do whatever it is they are or are not supposed to be doing, and that baggage doesn't stop just because their partner dies.
But, of course, part of that baggage is that women aren't supposed to want sex or sexual intimacy, and a woman who is no longer young is just gross and useless sexually anyway. Men are assumed to actually require sex - and gratitude to be "free" of the previous partner - or they will die or explode or something, which is a heavy burden on men who are suffering.
I don't think we can fix any of this unless we strive for at least more nuanced emotional intelligence in our friendships and relationships. You can talk to your friends about connection without dishing all the nitty gritty on your sex life or squicking anybody out, it just takes a little bit of effort.
posted by Lyn Never at 3:06 PM on March 13, 2017 [14 favorites]
I have no idea what it must be like to deal with this on top of the grief of a lost loved one.
But for the divorced folks here, two things helped me a lot in getting through my divorce:
1) steady exercise, which I'd not done before with any regularity, and
2) finding someone else just out of a marriage. who also knew she wasn't ready for anything serious or long term. Better yet she was a runner.
But you need to make sure you are fully aware of the risk of getting too attached, and up front about that with each other. I'm guessing services such as OKCupid or Match might be better than Tinder, which has such a short term focus and younger demographic.
posted by msalt at 3:24 PM on March 13, 2017
But for the divorced folks here, two things helped me a lot in getting through my divorce:
1) steady exercise, which I'd not done before with any regularity, and
2) finding someone else just out of a marriage. who also knew she wasn't ready for anything serious or long term. Better yet she was a runner.
But you need to make sure you are fully aware of the risk of getting too attached, and up front about that with each other. I'm guessing services such as OKCupid or Match might be better than Tinder, which has such a short term focus and younger demographic.
posted by msalt at 3:24 PM on March 13, 2017
I outlived my sexual partner quite sometime ago. She reminds me of it constantly. ;-)
posted by humboldt32 at 3:48 PM on March 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by humboldt32 at 3:48 PM on March 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
I don't like talking about sex with my friends as a general principle.
A man must have a code.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 5:26 PM on March 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
A man must have a code.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 5:26 PM on March 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
I'm on the bench with all the recently divorced folks.
One rebound relationship convinced me I need to sit out for a good long while.
I started lifting weights again and recently realized that the awesome, full-body endorphin thrill after a good hourlong workout feels exactly like the awesome, full-body endorphin thrill after an hour of exuberant fucking. Works for me.
posted by Sublimity at 6:16 PM on March 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
One rebound relationship convinced me I need to sit out for a good long while.
I started lifting weights again and recently realized that the awesome, full-body endorphin thrill after a good hourlong workout feels exactly like the awesome, full-body endorphin thrill after an hour of exuberant fucking. Works for me.
posted by Sublimity at 6:16 PM on March 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
I'm not surprised widows don't talk to friends about sex. What's to be said? We never talked about our sex lives before; that's private. I've been widowed twice, and I would be mortified if someone offered to "help" me with that.
posted by Miss Cellania at 6:52 PM on March 13, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by Miss Cellania at 6:52 PM on March 13, 2017 [15 favorites]
Mod note: A couple deleted. Okay, it's an article about grieving, bereavement, and sex, so maybe not the best spot for old-people jokes or whatever.
posted by taz (staff) at 2:06 AM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by taz (staff) at 2:06 AM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
Sorry, I made one of those older person jokes but it wasn't a joke about the fact us old and single folks are old, but the fact the dating scene appears to have changed so much since we were younger.
I have younger friends who have a blast on Tinder and twenty year old me would have thought he'd reached utopia if it existed then. Forty-something me just sees a sea of bronze and bad spelling.
It's always been an issue, it may be the most common human issue, but the solutions we thought we had seem so, well, inadequate.
posted by fullerine at 2:19 AM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
I have younger friends who have a blast on Tinder and twenty year old me would have thought he'd reached utopia if it existed then. Forty-something me just sees a sea of bronze and bad spelling.
It's always been an issue, it may be the most common human issue, but the solutions we thought we had seem so, well, inadequate.
posted by fullerine at 2:19 AM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
I have younger friends who have a blast on Tinder and twenty year old me would have thought he'd reached utopia if it existed then. Forty-something me just sees a sea of bronze and bad spelling.
You've got a decade on me and I see it the same way. I think it's not that I miss sex per se, it's that I miss it in the context of the previous relationship. The understanding that I'm allowed to grab her afterwards and just fall asleep without getting in trouble, and the understanding that I'm making breakfast in the morning.
As for broaching the topics of sex and physical intimacy with recently widowed folk, I can't say I've tried, but I spend a large amount of time being deliberately inappropriate so the more polite members of my social circle feel the freedom to express things they wouldn't have otherwise. Maybe a similar approach?
posted by iffthen at 6:40 AM on March 14, 2017
You've got a decade on me and I see it the same way. I think it's not that I miss sex per se, it's that I miss it in the context of the previous relationship. The understanding that I'm allowed to grab her afterwards and just fall asleep without getting in trouble, and the understanding that I'm making breakfast in the morning.
As for broaching the topics of sex and physical intimacy with recently widowed folk, I can't say I've tried, but I spend a large amount of time being deliberately inappropriate so the more polite members of my social circle feel the freedom to express things they wouldn't have otherwise. Maybe a similar approach?
posted by iffthen at 6:40 AM on March 14, 2017
Metafilter: a sea of bronze and bad spelling
posted by eustatic at 7:10 AM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by eustatic at 7:10 AM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
One of my good friends just suffered the loss of her husband on Saturday. She's only 59 and he was a couple years younger. She spent a lot of time on some seriously go-nowhere relationships before she met her beloved, and they were just wonderful together. But 4 years into their marriage, he'd started having kidney trouble and they moved all the way across the country in order to for him to receive treatments they could afford. Only after another 4 years did it have to stop. He had been admitted to hospice for care just last Tuesday, but once they learned there was absolutely nothing more to be done, they made the hard choice for him to let go. It's so unfair, it really is.
I can't imagine they did very much physically in the last few years, but I'm sure they could snuggle and kiss and experience physical closeness in other ways.
I wonder what she will do now. There's some other immediate needs she has to consider, like finding another job and wondering if she has to give up her home, so I don't reckon sex will be exactly top of mind for her for a while, but at some point she's going to want closeness again. I hope she can find someone else as lovely as her adored J was, or whatever it is she'll need.
posted by droplet at 7:23 AM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
I can't imagine they did very much physically in the last few years, but I'm sure they could snuggle and kiss and experience physical closeness in other ways.
I wonder what she will do now. There's some other immediate needs she has to consider, like finding another job and wondering if she has to give up her home, so I don't reckon sex will be exactly top of mind for her for a while, but at some point she's going to want closeness again. I hope she can find someone else as lovely as her adored J was, or whatever it is she'll need.
posted by droplet at 7:23 AM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
Well, what about those of us who lost our sex partner during a marriage, and not to death? I mean, we are probably headed for a divorce, but in the meantime, no sex.
My solution is my woodworking workshop. I'm not sure, though, that I can successfully channel the sex drive into something different without a proper castration.
posted by Laotic at 7:51 AM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
My solution is my woodworking workshop. I'm not sure, though, that I can successfully channel the sex drive into something different without a proper castration.
posted by Laotic at 7:51 AM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
1) steady exercise, which I'd not done before with any regularity, and
Seconding this although honestly I'm too depressed/preoccupied/bad at managing time lately to keep it up and backsliding on health and self care big time. My organizational anxiety makes me stupidly stress avoidant sometimes, but I also kind of need the slack to manage. Anyway, it's off topic, but I probably wouldn't have even survived the first year at all if not for getting regular exercise and watching my nutrition intake. Also, drink lots and lots of water! And look for a friend who needs someone to cuddle if you can stand the guilty feeling you're cheating! That's also a real thing the FPP touches on that persists and can complicate matters a lot.
posted by saulgoodman at 9:58 AM on March 14, 2017
Seconding this although honestly I'm too depressed/preoccupied/bad at managing time lately to keep it up and backsliding on health and self care big time. My organizational anxiety makes me stupidly stress avoidant sometimes, but I also kind of need the slack to manage. Anyway, it's off topic, but I probably wouldn't have even survived the first year at all if not for getting regular exercise and watching my nutrition intake. Also, drink lots and lots of water! And look for a friend who needs someone to cuddle if you can stand the guilty feeling you're cheating! That's also a real thing the FPP touches on that persists and can complicate matters a lot.
posted by saulgoodman at 9:58 AM on March 14, 2017
Better yet she was a runner.
What does that mean?
posted by cooker girl at 11:47 AM on March 14, 2017
What does that mean?
posted by cooker girl at 11:47 AM on March 14, 2017
Better yet she was a runner.
What does that mean?
Not to put words in the commenter's keyboard but I think it just meant that her being a runner helped with item 1 on the list:
1) steady exercise, which I'd not done before with any regularity
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 2:06 PM on March 14, 2017
What does that mean?
Not to put words in the commenter's keyboard but I think it just meant that her being a runner helped with item 1 on the list:
1) steady exercise, which I'd not done before with any regularity
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 2:06 PM on March 14, 2017
MetaFilter: deliberately inappropriate
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 2:26 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 2:26 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
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posted by Confess, Fletch at 1:32 PM on March 13, 2017 [7 favorites]