“We have to be ready.”
March 25, 2017 10:37 AM   Subscribe

Justice League [Official Trailer] [YouTube] “Fueled by his restored faith in humanity and inspired by Superman’s selfless act, Bruce Wayne enlists the help of his newfound ally, Diana Prince, to face an even greater enemy. Together, Batman and Wonder Woman work quickly to find and recruit a team of metahumans to stand against this newly awakened threat. But despite the formation of this unprecedented league of heroes—Batman, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Cyborg and The Flash—it may already be too late to save the planet from an assault of catastrophic proportions.”
posted by Fizz (126 comments total) 9 users marked this as a favorite
 
Justice League, sure...why not. I'll watch it because I've seen the others. But for me, this is what I'm really excited for: Wonder Woman [Official Trailer] [YouTube]
posted by Fizz at 10:40 AM on March 25, 2017 [6 favorites]


Do you think this Flash makes terrible decisions too?

Dammit Barry...
posted by Servo5678 at 10:48 AM on March 25, 2017 [3 favorites]


Where the fuck are the Wonder Twins?
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 10:52 AM on March 25, 2017 [27 favorites]


Do you think this Flash makes terrible decisions too?

Arrowverse has been hitting it out of the park so consistently, I question not going with Grant Gustin. Then again, there's this huge cognitive dissonance seeing Superman Returns playing The Atom.
posted by mikelieman at 10:53 AM on March 25, 2017 [2 favorites]


I'm wondering how they'll shoehorn Supes into this film? I'm surprised there isn't a "Where is Superman?" or "Is Superman dead?" viral marketing campaign in the same style as "Why so serious?"
posted by Fizz at 11:00 AM on March 25, 2017 [2 favorites]


yaddayaddaEarth in PerilyaddayaddaSuperheroesyaddayaddaLots of FightingyaddayaddaCGI out the wazooyaddayadda
posted by Thorzdad at 11:01 AM on March 25, 2017 [11 favorites]


The DCVerse is shaping up to be significantly louder and dumber than the Marvel-verse. Tickets will sell, of course, but I don't hold out much hope for Deadpool- or Logan-esque narratives from DC.
posted by killdevil at 11:04 AM on March 25, 2017 [6 favorites]


A world lit entirely by fluorescent bulbs, full of slow-motion action shots and set to an edgy cover of a '60s song? It's the Zack Snyderest trailer ever!
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 11:07 AM on March 25, 2017 [28 favorites]


Also I will never be able to contemplate Aquaman on film without conjuring James Cameron's Aquaman from Entourage, selected I am sure for the general absurdity of the character and the premise.
posted by killdevil at 11:09 AM on March 25, 2017 [4 favorites]


Sony has done a deal for J.Jonah Jameson as well as spidey?

The cyborg guy looks completely crap, on a par with green lantern crap .
posted by biffa at 11:09 AM on March 25, 2017 [2 favorites]


I really wish they could get away from the blue-and-orange colorization.
posted by briank at 11:10 AM on March 25, 2017 [6 favorites]


This doesn't look bad. But it doesn't look good either. Based on this trailer it'll be a perfectly passable 90 film stretched into 2 hours that will be leave me mentally exhausted and bored and pining for an indy art house flick about the Avengers hanging out and doing chores.

IF I see it. Yep, this hasn't sold me, especially with Guardians Vol 2, Spider-Man and Thor on the way this year, all of them looking much better than this. I want to be selective with my superhero dollars, to not encourage half assed storylines seen before.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:16 AM on March 25, 2017 [2 favorites]


I guess I'll add this to the list of DC movies I won't be seeing. Excruciating dialogue, rotten-looking costumes, and the aesthetics of a two-hour toy commercial...

Gal Gadot looks note-perfect absolutely every time she's onscreen from what I've seen. Jason Momoa is hard not to like, and the Flash seems like he might have accidentally been given a personality. But somehow the whole thing still just exudes terribleness. Cyborg... God, Cyborg hurts to look at; he looks like his secret origin involves an explosion in an LED factory. And the scene where he and Batman are grunting at one another... why must they grunt? The Avengers don't grunt. Thor and Captain America manage to be sufficiently overstated in their masculinity and still talk like normal people. If they're gonna make everybody grunt, they should have put a filter on Gal Gadot's voice to make her sound just like Batman...
posted by Sing Or Swim at 11:17 AM on March 25, 2017 [6 favorites]


it may already be too late to save the planetfranchise from an assault of catastrophic proportions.

They couldn't have Bruce wearing the Bat-costume when he was on the horse? Oh well, at least Jason Momoa looks like he's having fun.
posted by Halloween Jack at 11:18 AM on March 25, 2017


So, everyone gets a name except the disfigured black male? And I'm not against seeing women in short skirts, along with their ass checks, but it just looks silly compared to everyone other (male) character being in armor. Christ, give the woman some leggings at least. At least Gal looks like she's doing the part nicely.

But this (and most of the Marvel films) are still playing to the '60s tropes and it's not aging well. Give us an interesting story, please!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:24 AM on March 25, 2017 [2 favorites]


I can absolutely picture Jason Momoa yelling "OUTRAGEOUS!" as he's punching Parademons in that scene, but there's no way it would get into the final cut.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 11:25 AM on March 25, 2017 [9 favorites]


Also, Vic Stone's (the black guy) superhero name is literally just Cyborg.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 11:26 AM on March 25, 2017 [2 favorites]


If the new Spider-Man is the high-voiced nerd from Civil War, who spends the entire fight sequence he's in geeking out about how awesome the other characters' gear is and asking about its technical specifications, I am entirely sold on seeing that film.
posted by Pope Guilty at 11:27 AM on March 25, 2017 [16 favorites]


But this (and most of the Marvel films) are still playing to the '60s tropes and it's not aging well. Give us an interesting story, please!

And the 70's stories! Why can't anybody come up with literally anything for Jean Grey to do other than the Phoenix story?
posted by Pope Guilty at 11:28 AM on March 25, 2017 [4 favorites]


I recently made my way through Supergirl season 1 on Netflix, and it was such bright and shiny and bubbly fun compared to the overwhelming GRIMDARK SO-SERIOUS of the recent and upcoming crop of DC movies that I really don't have much interest in the films.

Except Wonder Woman, which I am planning on watching, because it's Wonder Woman.
posted by rmd1023 at 11:29 AM on March 25, 2017 [12 favorites]


Also, Vic Stone's (the black guy) superhero name is literally just Cyborg.

I know. Aquaman's and Flash's real names are mentioned. Why the fuck isn't Cyborg's? That's completely weird, on top of having the body of the black fucking mutilated in order to become a superhero. That's some not subtle bullshit right there.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:31 AM on March 25, 2017 [9 favorites]


Just gonna come out and say that I want it to fail in such a way that the studios and businesses involved sort of look over at the Marvel CU, say "well, there's some sort of operational excellence at work over there we're never gonna get, so we're going to stop, send our execs to one of a lavish retreat or early retirement, catch our breath, and quit trying to glue turds together."

My wife and son don't particularly care for superhero stuff, but they'll go to the Marvel movies because there's something there for them. My son won't even sit through Star Wars movies because he hates things with spaceships in them, but loved Guardians of the Galaxy and wants to see the sequel. They've drawn a complete emotional blank with DC's properties and don't bother with them.

If comic book movies are going to suck all the money out of annual production budgets, not doubling down on whatever it is that turns off 2/3 of my family would be awesome.

The one redeeming thing, I guess, is that this trailer seemed to pick up on the widely leveled charge that Superman vs. Batman (or whatever it was) was humorless. Still looks gaudy and overdone, but slightly lower on the "unrelenting grimness" scale.
posted by mph at 11:37 AM on March 25, 2017 [5 favorites]


I hope the movie does give Cyborg a name, that's ridiculous.

At this point though I would pay to see Gal Gadot, Jason Momoa, and Affleck just getting into hijinks and riffing at each other.
posted by Ber at 11:39 AM on March 25, 2017 [2 favorites]


Looks like typical levels of Snyder bad.

I know Ryan Reynolds isn't available but why not John Stewart GL? Cyborg is going to look horrible no matter what which makes him a poor fit even though the current DC continuity has him being a founding member instead Martian Manhunter.

Momoa and Gadot seem to be only solid parts of this because Batfleck is terribad.
posted by vuron at 11:45 AM on March 25, 2017 [1 favorite]


why not John Stewart GL?

I know you meant animated series John Stewart, which is the best version of the character, but now I want to see GL Daily Show John Stewart.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 11:55 AM on March 25, 2017 [8 favorites]


After watching Logan, which I feel raised the bar for superhero films quite a few notches, it's going to be hard to go back to product like this.
posted by octothorpe at 11:55 AM on March 25, 2017 [2 favorites]


Man of Steel was worthless garbage. Batman V Superman was a film-shaped hole where a movie should have been. The entire franchise is broken beyond repair and needs to crash and burn completely so that maybe we might have hope in the future of something better.

Snyder is a talentless hack who has only ever at best achieved mediocrity. He needs to be expelled from the movie industry and legally barred from being within 500 feet of a movie theater.
posted by Sangermaine at 11:57 AM on March 25, 2017 [24 favorites]


Well, it looks like it checks all the expected boxes of a big budget superhero franchise film, except possibly one - fun. Is anyone having any? I mean, Tony is generally having a ball being Iron Man and while Cap is often looking a little lost and mopey, he still cracks a smile now and then.

This just looks grim and dark; the colours, the fact that everything looks like it takes place in some grey-black apocalyptic landscape where the machines took over, even the one liners are sardonic/sarcastic. Someone needs to point out to DC that when Batman said "I only work in black, and sometimes shades of dark grey" in the LEGO movie, it was a joke, not staging advice.

And Aerosmith doing a Beatles cover...Gah.
posted by nubs at 11:58 AM on March 25, 2017 [4 favorites]


It's like DC isn't even trying to copy off Marvel's test anymore.
They've got weeks to go before summer and school's out and they just don't give a fuck. Marvel, on the other hand, will be taking extra credit courses over the summer months and be way ahead of the rest of the class, as usual, when September rolls around.

If Marvel is the A student, the DC is the class fuck up.
If Marvel is the most popular teacher, then DC is the drunken baseball coach teaching Driver's Ed during the summer.

Okay, so I have no idea where I was going with all this.
MARVEL RULES!
posted by Major Matt Mason Dixon at 12:06 PM on March 25, 2017 [4 favorites]


I bet we'll see a jokier Guardians-of-the-Galaxy-style trailer for this in an attempt to make it seem fun. Like with Suicide Squad. If you want my advice, the new backing music should be the Golden Girls theme.
posted by knuckle tattoos at 12:13 PM on March 25, 2017 [4 favorites]


the current DC continuity has him being a founding member instead Martian Manhunter.

Martian Manhunter Need Not Apply.

( fwiw, he's already got a better gig over on Supergirl! )
posted by mikelieman at 12:17 PM on March 25, 2017 [7 favorites]


Okay, so I have no idea where I was going with all this.
MARVEL RULES!


Actually I think we figured out where you were going with this. Not that anybody in their right mind would disagree.
posted by Bringer Tom at 12:55 PM on March 25, 2017


And Aerosmith doing a Beatles cover...Gah.

Originally from this landmark of film-making.
posted by octothorpe at 1:09 PM on March 25, 2017 [3 favorites]


> "Why can't anybody come up with literally anything for Jean Grey to do other than the Phoenix story?"

Well, because after the Phoenix story, of course, she died, and never came back.

Never never ever.

LALALALALALALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU
posted by kyrademon at 1:10 PM on March 25, 2017 [11 favorites]


Why you all down on Cyborg, he's the coolest guy on Teen Titans Go!

No I haven't watched the trailer yet and as a DC partisan it may be awhile before I muster up the courage to do so
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:16 PM on March 25, 2017 [7 favorites]


I grew up on DC and loved it. It took Snyder and Goyer, Suicide Squad, that Killing Joke adaptation, and the revelation that they were actively shielding a sexual predator, but that last one finally chased me away. No more movies, no more pull list.

I know, it's dorky comics shit, but it breaks my goddamn heart. That's my youth. And I'm torn because I want to support WW but I don't want them getting my money. And I don't want my kids watching their cynical, stupid movies.
posted by middleclasstool at 1:21 PM on March 25, 2017 [6 favorites]


I tend to Make Mine Marvel these days, but it's worth remembering (if anyone's forgotten) that DC was making more-than-decent movies when Marvel was still fumbling around trying to put something together (and failing mostly to those efforts being directed by Stan Lee, whose splendid talents of self-promotion didn't extend to getting projects off the ground in Hollywood). They could still pull it together, particularly if they took advantage of some of the more talented people who are still working for them despite the company's numerous missteps on the comics side of things, Gail Simone and Greg Rucka in particular.
posted by Halloween Jack at 1:37 PM on March 25, 2017 [2 favorites]


"Why so serious?"

That is my tagline for the entire DCCU. I'm shaking my head at the various people calling this "fun" and "lighthearted" when it seems so very, very serious. Like that "joke" about Batman "playing well with others" -- it's sounds like the opposite of affectionate banter, more like passive-aggressive bitching.
posted by straight at 1:42 PM on March 25, 2017 [1 favorite]


I get the feeling that they have a serious culture problem there. There's a curious silence among a lot of industry pros about D.C. And I get the feeling that Simone stays on at least partly because fuck you, she's not giving up.

Years ago, Steve Niles posted a rundown of the submission guidelines for nearly every comics publisher out there. When he got to D.C. he said, pretty much in so many words, "Have you tried everywhere else? No? Do that first."
posted by middleclasstool at 1:52 PM on March 25, 2017 [4 favorites]


I don't hold out much hope for Deadpool- or Logan-esque narratives from DC.
Lobo.
posted by Decimask at 1:53 PM on March 25, 2017 [3 favorites]


The new Avengers movie is shooting at the moment in and around the main railway station. Superpowers - mucking up transport even more than Network Rail and Edinburgh City Council combined...
posted by Devonian at 1:55 PM on March 25, 2017 [1 favorite]


I'm surprised there isn't a "Where is Superman?" or "Is Superman dead?" viral marketing campaign in the same style as "Why so serious?"

"Two, whenever Superman's not on screen, all the other characters should be asking, 'Where's Superman?'. Three--"
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 1:56 PM on March 25, 2017 [13 favorites]


Terrible. Man of Steel, Batman V Superman, Suicide Squad, ... and it looks like this one, too; what a waste of time, effort and talent. And for what? For a little bit of money? There's more to life than a little money, you know. Don'tcha know that? Like, a lot of money - which a decent DC film without Zack Snyder might make.
posted by Auden at 1:58 PM on March 25, 2017 [2 favorites]


I know. Aquaman's and Flash's real names are mentioned. Why the fuck isn't Cyborg's? That's completely weird, on top of having the body of the black fucking mutilated in order to become a superhero. That's some not subtle bullshit right there.

We could totally have the excellent John Stewart Green Lantern in the Justice League (instead of DC continually trying to make Cyborg happen to get some more diversity in the Big Seven) if Geoff Johns--pretty much the only fan of Hal Jordan in the universe--weren't stuck on Hal and Barry as the 'real' GL and Flash (never mind they're neither the originals nor the more interesting versions of those characters). Unfortunately he's basically in charge of comics at DC now and their main comic guy consulting with the movies.
posted by straight at 1:58 PM on March 25, 2017 [4 favorites]


Although maybe at this point it's not too late to get both John Stewart and Vic Stone in the Justice League movies. And maybe Carl Lumbly voicing Martian Manhunter?
posted by straight at 2:09 PM on March 25, 2017 [2 favorites]


Seriously down on the fact there's no J'onn J'onzz. What good are all these outsiders without the penultimate outsider. Plus, you know, J'onn is awesome.

Wonder Twins? I WILL FIGHT YOU! Especially as I don't want a CGI Gleek.
posted by Samizdata at 2:10 PM on March 25, 2017 [1 favorite]


Also, happy seeing Arthur Curry getting some love, being played by an actor who, at least visually, outbadasses the rest of the cast put together, IMO.
posted by Samizdata at 2:12 PM on March 25, 2017 [2 favorites]


Mainly, I have zero confidence that Zach Snyder can do better than the WB TV show at making the Flash be anything more than an idiot who stands around watching bad things happen and forgetting to use his powers.
posted by straight at 2:15 PM on March 25, 2017 [1 favorite]


> "The new Avengers movie is shooting at the moment in and around the main railway station. Superpowers - mucking up transport even more than Network Rail and Edinburgh City Council combined..."

Oh, THAT'S what all that was!
posted by kyrademon at 2:18 PM on March 25, 2017


The new Avengers movie is shooting at the moment in and around the main railway station. Superpowers - mucking up transport even more than Network Rail and Edinburgh City Council combined...


Choose Life. Choose a career. Choose a costume. Choose a secret identity. Choose hidden bases, helicarriers, and artificial intelligences. Choose a selection of powered armor. Choose a vibranium shield. Choose collateral damage. Choose a long list of assassinations. Choose anger-control issues, and PTSD-induced substance abuse. Choose crippling guilt over the loss of your partner in World War II.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 2:22 PM on March 25, 2017 [32 favorites]


Remember that awesome scene in BvS of Superman standing in a courtroom and stupidly watching everybody get blown up and not saving anyone? Look for more great super-speed inaction from The Flash in Justice League!
posted by straight at 2:31 PM on March 25, 2017 [4 favorites]


DC TV, beginning way back with the animated Batman in the '90s right up to Supergirl, has been consistently fun and compelling and visually wonderful, with excellent casting and a gleeful embrace of the camp along with the serious.

The Tim Burton Batman movies were amazing, but cinematically, with the exception of The Dark Knight (Heath Leger stole the show with that one), DC stuff is way to grimdark and up its own fundament. They don't understand or respect the source material, and are generally terrible.
posted by Slap*Happy at 3:22 PM on March 25, 2017 [2 favorites]


I was a Marvel comics kid and I still prefer their characters, but I have to say that DC is doing a better job in terms of marketing to little girls in ways I can be okay with. Their DC Super Hero Girls stuff is a huge hit with my six year old daughter and has a lot to do with her reading being as far along as it is. I'd like to see Marvel do as well in terms of both merchandising and how they design (and dress!) their female characters. Squirrel Girl is a notable exception. And there are others too, but most of them aren't really as approachable for a kindergartner.
posted by nickmark at 3:24 PM on March 25, 2017 [1 favorite]


like 98% of these scenes appear to take place in an unrecognizable fake-place made entirely of dark grey swirls
posted by beerperson at 3:55 PM on March 25, 2017 [8 favorites]


I will forgive a lot if it's all an elaborate messy Snyder set-up for a 4th act Supes v Darkseid. Hell, I might even watch the damn thing.

Also, that's a lifeless paraphrase of Most Excellent Superbat's character-defining line.
posted by comealongpole at 4:17 PM on March 25, 2017


Lobo.

It's been in development hell for a while; at one point, Guy Ritchie was going to direct, and at another, Dwayne Johnson was going to star. (He's now signed on to be Black Adam in Shazam.) Me, I think that Rob Zombie would have been good when he was younger, as he spent much of his earlier career basically cosplaying Lobo. Then again, I'm not really that invested in the character; I'm with Keith Giffen, his creator, who meant Lobo as a parody of terminally grimdark characters like Wolverine, and was shocked that he was unironically popular with the fans. Then again again, I wasn't invested in Deadpool (Rob Liefeld's parody of Deathstroke, similarly a sleeper hit) either, and that movie turned out great.
posted by Halloween Jack at 4:26 PM on March 25, 2017 [2 favorites]


like 98% of these scenes appear to take place in an unrecognizable fake-place made entirely of dark grey swirls

Ah, the DC GrimDark™ color palette.
That's the one thing that I like about Marvel; at least their fight scenes take place in daylight. Sometimes.
posted by Major Matt Mason Dixon at 4:52 PM on March 25, 2017 [2 favorites]


Wow that was... dull. The colour scheme is just plain dull, the action looks dull (and unoriginal - WW doing the same sweep-the-leg move from the WW trailer, Cyborg has a face helmet similar to Iron Man or StarLord), the humour - what little there is of it - looks dull. What an amazing disappointment.

I'm just not a fan of grimdark. I guess it's good that people who like that sort of thing are getting served, but boy what a shame.
posted by GhostintheMachine at 4:59 PM on March 25, 2017


What really sucks about this bland shitfest is that it's overshadowing the BRILLIANT trailer for Three Billboards Outside Ebbing, Missouri and the also excellent looking (and alcohol soaked) Slack Bay
posted by cyphill at 5:30 PM on March 25, 2017 [11 favorites]


and the also excellent looking (and alcohol soaked) Slack Bay


That trailer pretty much proves that Bruno Dumont should have directed Adèle Blanc-Sec instead of Luc Besson.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 5:53 PM on March 25, 2017


God DAMN, ha ha! This movie looks bad as fuck!
posted by Greg Nog at 6:14 PM on March 25, 2017 [1 favorite]


The trailers for Wonder Woman have gotten me so excited! Then I read the buzz on the picture... and I guess I'll go see it anyway.
posted by rdr at 6:47 PM on March 25, 2017


This movie looks like ass.
I'm interested in Gal Gadot and Jason Momoa but everything else here is lame or even worse than lame. I don't understand why they want to put the Justice League in a long string of recycled grey CGI backdrops from 300. And frankly I'm a little angry at how awful Cyborg looks.

DC has almost never done much for me, and I've been a Marvel guy all my life... but I wanted this film to be good because I like superhero movies and I want the genre to do well. Plus I know how I'd feel if the Avengers had turned out to be a bunch of grimdark and fart noises. I'm still looking forward to Wonder Woman but it's hard to care about this film.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 6:48 PM on March 25, 2017 [6 favorites]


This movie looks like ass

but i like ass
posted by beerperson at 7:31 PM on March 25, 2017 [3 favorites]


like 98% of these scenes appear to take place in an unrecognizable fake-place made entirely of dark grey swirls

Man alive, at least first-person shooters get brown.
posted by Pope Guilty at 7:54 PM on March 25, 2017 [1 favorite]


I want a "My Superpower is I'm rich as fuck" sketch ala Chappelle Show's Wayne Brady sketch.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 8:20 PM on March 25, 2017 [1 favorite]


My son won't even sit through Star Wars movies because he hates things with spaceships in them

Listen. I know full well that being a parent is hard, and things don't often go the way you hoped they would. But this... I just, how can this happen? What can bring a child of any age to the point where they swear off something so generally awesome as the concept of spaceships? Did you send him off to one of those schools from Interstellar?
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 8:24 PM on March 25, 2017 [16 favorites]


The DC properties on TV are miles ahead of their cinematic output. Barry has four or five awesome father figures on The Flash, I just want to hug everyone on Supergirl, Young Justice had season-long subplots.

My favorite thing to come out of Batman v Superman is from the Auralnauts' Ding Ding. (The "I'm my own hype-man" visual gag makes me laugh every time.)
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 8:53 PM on March 25, 2017


Um, why is it called the Justice League? They seem to be concerned with preventing disasters and alien threats, defeating evil geniuses etc. Do they ever try to get wrongful convictions overturned? Or help individuals who have been harmed by the actions of large, uncaring corporations? They might as well call it the Pancake League, for all they appear to engage with concepts of "justice."
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 8:59 PM on March 25, 2017 [9 favorites]


Somewhat surprised to see the trailer was in 1.85, then looked on IMDb and saw the move is too. Weird departure from all the other DC flicks.
posted by Potsy at 10:40 PM on March 25, 2017 [1 favorite]


Fine Il'l just sit here and wait for the Doom Patrol series where they battled? with the Dadaist "Villans"
posted by boilermonster at 12:23 AM on March 26, 2017 [2 favorites]


Wonder Twins? I WILL FIGHT YOU! Especially as I don't want a CGI Gleek.

Until we get one, I imagine Gleek would look a lot like Debbie the Bloop 2.0
posted by mikelieman at 12:45 AM on March 26, 2017 [3 favorites]


Gak. Imagine Then again again, I wasn't invested in Deadpool (Rob Liefeld's parody of Deathstroke, similarly a sleeper hit) either, and that movie turned out great.

I hate all things Liefeld. I *wanted* to hate the Deadpool movie. I chalk it up to "Liefeld couldn't fuck up the artwork.", but it still pisses me off that he gets paid.
posted by mikelieman at 12:56 AM on March 26, 2017 [4 favorites]


My wife and son don't particularly care for superhero stuff, but they'll go to the Marvel movies because there's something there for them. My son won't even sit through Star Wars movies because he hates things with spaceships in them

I'm sorry, mph, your wife and I can find common ground but your son and I cannot be friends.
posted by Mike Mongo at 2:50 AM on March 26, 2017 [3 favorites]


BTW I googled black justice league members and got this group shot (from deviant artist cpuhuman) and suddenly boggled.

I get that there is a real diversity problem with characters in comic books but DC really seems terrible at prioritizing characters who are black. This list, Top Black DC Superheroes, was really dismal. I mean, some great heroes (I was a huge Milestone fan and even once got to discuss with them them doing a Mr Scarface rapper comic before they folded) but good God, we are not even at 20 people and you have Bronze Tiger on the list. Bronze Tiger? For some comparison, check out list on same site of Top Black Marvel Superheroes. These are some of my all-time favorite heroes!

As for Cyborg, I've always had a disdain for the character Cyborg. I mean since he was introduced in Wolfman and Pérez' Teen Titans. I mean, Brandon Blatcher nails it. Cyborg's story line is a bummer.

There are literally only a handful of characters who are black and Justice League who could fill the role being played by Ray Fisher. (Btw continuing with this theme of general exclusion ickiness I'm gleening from obsevations being noted throughout this entire thread, Fisher's listing doesn't even appear on first page list of fifteen–FIFTEEN-cast members on IMDB.) Personally, I would have waaay preferred Static. Or Vixen. (Or, dare to dream, John Stewart.)

I think if DC had gone off the radar and pulled in the majorly awesome Black Lightining–one character who's black who DC got right–we would have had a major character rebirth (ala Ant-Man or Guardians of the Galaxy) on our hands. Alas.
posted by Mike Mongo at 3:33 AM on March 26, 2017 [2 favorites]


Um, why is it called the Justice League?

Who or what are The Avengers avenging?
posted by Grangousier at 5:18 AM on March 26, 2017 [3 favorites]


The Tim Burton Batman movies were amazing, but cinematically, with the exception of The Dark Knight (Heath Leger stole the show with that one), DC stuff is way to grimdark and up its own fundament.

It's worth mentioning that, for all its primary color pop art trappings, Burton's Batman killed a lot of people and opened fire on a crowded street with twin heavy machine guns from a plane.
posted by middleclasstool at 5:53 AM on March 26, 2017 [1 favorite]


I really hope the inevitable nerd documentary on this era is titled "Snyder v Goyer: Dawn of Dad I Swear I'm Not Gay"
posted by middleclasstool at 6:00 AM on March 26, 2017 [3 favorites]


I just can't buy Gadot as WW. Palicki would have been so much better if her shot just been given proper treatment.
posted by davelog at 6:16 AM on March 26, 2017 [4 favorites]


I like Ben Affleck as Batman. His natural aloof manner is perfect for the character.

I thought Batman v. Superman was actually pretty good, up until [BEGIN SPOILER] Batman didn't actually kill Superman and then for some reason a giant monster I'm supposed to know is Doomsday starts busting a lot of shit up. The movie is way better if Batman wins the fight, stabs Superman with that spear that the whole movie was setting up, then is like "OK, I finally beat that guy". Then WW reveals herself and is probably like "Oh man, why did you do that, don't you know you were manipulated by Luthor", to which Batman says "oh shit", then the movie ends with Luthor having everything in place for some world domination plot. And Batman is like "crap, I shouldn't have killed the one guy who could stop this evil genius, I better form some kind of League of superheroes that can achieve Justice." The move is like 30 minutes shorter and doesn't go off the rails. [/END SPOILER]
posted by King Bee at 6:38 AM on March 26, 2017 [7 favorites]


Grant Gustin is my Flash. Ezra Miller is most definitely not, though it's not his fault. #notmybarryallen

Also, I asked my comic geek spouse about the Henry Allen prison storyline. He said that Barry's parents were ever mentioned in the comics that he can recall, but it seems that in this trailer they lifted the Henry Allen prison storyline from the TV show in one shot.
posted by Kitteh at 6:45 AM on March 26, 2017 [2 favorites]


This will be a good one for me and the husband at the drive in. We saw Batman v Superman there and our sound went out with forty minutes to go. We made the dialogue up for the rest of it. That was pretty fun.

DC fails. Marvel has some real stinkers, but more good stuff than bad, with lots of genuinely diverse super groups. I want America Chavez's movie, stat. (If they could stop fridging James Rhodes that'd be great.)
posted by Made of Star Stuff at 7:06 AM on March 26, 2017 [2 favorites]


At this point though I would pay to see Gal Gadot, Jason Momoa, and Affleck just getting into hijinks and riffing at each other.

They should do a remake of Quick Change together. Not sure who would play who though.
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 8:16 AM on March 26, 2017 [6 favorites]


Who or what are The Avengers avenging?

This is literally covered in the movie.
posted by aureliobuendia at 8:21 AM on March 26, 2017 [2 favorites]


Gal Gadot is literally the best possible choice for an actress to play Wonder Woman for one reason: her name.

Seriously, her name sounds like the name of a mild mannered alter ego for a super hero! It alliterates, it has a double meaning possible for her first name, it is the ultimate possible name choice for an actor portraying Wonder Woman.

As for the movie, eh. I never much liked DC comics and their movies are all far too serious without any of the humor or self awareness that makes the Marvel movies generally workable and enjoyable.

Still , it looks like it'll have some nice action set pieces so it'll make a mint and might be fun just for a silly action flick.
posted by sotonohito at 8:28 AM on March 26, 2017 [4 favorites]


mikelieman: "Wonder Twins? I WILL FIGHT YOU! Especially as I don't want a CGI Gleek.

Until we get one, I imagine Gleek would look a lot like Debbie the Bloop 2.0
"

You are NOT making points with your argument here. Just sayin'.
posted by Samizdata at 8:53 AM on March 26, 2017 [1 favorite]


Kitteh: "Grant Gustin is my Flash. Ezra Miller is most definitely not, though it's not his fault. #notmybarryallen

Also, I asked my comic geek spouse about the Henry Allen prison storyline. He said that Barry's parents were ever mentioned in the comics that he can recall, but it seems that in this trailer they lifted the Henry Allen prison storyline from the TV show in one shot.
"

Seconded. Not gonna lie. BIG fan of the Arrowverse.
posted by Samizdata at 8:56 AM on March 26, 2017


This is literally covered in the movie.

Yeah, but originally. The way I remember it is that in Avengers #1 they're called The Avengers because Wasp thought it sounded like a cool name.
posted by Grangousier at 9:11 AM on March 26, 2017 [1 favorite]


I want America Chavez's movie, stat.

Ditto. It would also make a great addition to the Netflix series lineup.
posted by Halloween Jack at 9:38 AM on March 26, 2017 [1 favorite]


The Henry Allen story is a big deal in Flash comics from Geoff Johns that revamped the character in the 2000s, I think.100% agree that it feels like bullshit to shoehorn that origin into this movie. Plus the Arrowverse totally nailed the Henry Allen story.

For some reason I kinda loved BvS, but it works better as a re-re-telling of tropes that one is familiar with in macho drag, unlike tje Captain America movies which find all kinds of themes and real characters to explore. I'm excited that Superman is out for at least the setup of the movie. So I'll be glad to report back!
posted by kittensofthenight at 10:22 AM on March 26, 2017 [1 favorite]


The way I remember it is that in Avengers #1 they're called The Avengers because Wasp thought it sounded like a cool name.

That's pretty much how Stark describes it in a fairly recent Avengers issue.
posted by biffa at 10:34 AM on March 26, 2017 [1 favorite]


I think if DC had gone off the radar and pulled in the majorly awesome Black Lightining–one character who's black who DC got right–we would have had a major character rebirth (ala Ant-Man or Guardians of the Galaxy) on our hands. Alas.
posted by Mike Mongo at 3:33 AM on March 26


In a reversal of the usual playbook, it seems they're "saving" BL for TV. He's going to be another addition to the DCCW stable. It sounds like they're trying to make it a family-oriented piece. I'm not sure how well that approach will work, but I'm willing to give it a try.

I can understand why they'd want to push Cyborg instead of a character like BL. He's a teen (or young adult, depending on how they position him), so he's the audience stand-in/one the coveted teenage demographic is supposed to connect with, he's got the "cool computer tech" therefor he's the one plugged into the prevailing Silicon Valley/start-up/disruptive zeitgeist of the time (which we all know the "olds" just don't get.) Plus, given his journey from star football hero to weird cybernetic outcast, he ticks off both the "jock" and the "lonely nerd" boxes, so he should appeal to all the youngsters. Unlike BL, who is nothing but a responsible, dedicated athlete and teacher. That's like so lame and boring! It's almost as if the marketing people were putting together this movie like they were assembling ingredients for the world's most predictable recipe. One part sexy female: check. One part grumpy old dude: check. Lots of cool gadgets: check. One resident badass: check. The moral centre: check. Although I'm still not sure what the Flash is for--maybe resident smart aleck, I don't have enough of a sense of who Barry is supposed to be in this incarnation. And as mentioned, Vic ticks off all the "youth" boxes.

And just to be on the record, I'm not seeing this either. I swear DC, I would be ever so happy to give you my money if you just made a halfway decent movie, but you keep failing to pass even that low bar. Maybe WW will convince me, but I've had enough of bad DC films to last a lifetime.
posted by sardonyx at 11:39 AM on March 26, 2017 [2 favorites]


we all know the "olds" just don't get.) Plus, given his journey from star football hero to weird cybernetic outcast

Oh, so that's why there's the weird clip of somebody playing football in the montage of otherwise superpowered people destroying things.
posted by nubs at 12:29 PM on March 26, 2017


I suspect so. Although keep in mind anything I say comes strictly from my reading of the funny books, which the filmmakers tend to treat as suggestions at best, and certainly not canon.
posted by sardonyx at 12:38 PM on March 26, 2017


Who or what are The Avengers avenging?

This is literally covered in the movie.


Yeah, but that only works for that movie. Once the alien horde lead by a mystical god was defeated, what was there to avenge?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:54 PM on March 26, 2017 [1 favorite]


If it's anything like the previous DCCU movies, I'm going to find it bad in an interesting and visually stunning way, while MCU is good in an unmemorable and Disney-boilerplate technically excellent, and the FOX mutant movies are surprisingly great in mature character ways
posted by Apocryphon at 1:03 PM on March 26, 2017


On the subject of black DC heroes, I think I previously said that Batman v Superman would have been worth it alone if it meant that Steel was coming back. They'd better get Shaq to play him and everything.

And also it'd be nice that this critically panned cinematic universe got its act together enough to make a Static Shock movie. He's pretty darn recognizable and memorable.
posted by Apocryphon at 1:10 PM on March 26, 2017 [2 favorites]


No, wait, they can't be avenging the alien attack, because it's called the Avengers Initiative long before they've even met. Unless they're a stand-in team on the off-chance that something occurs that needs venging. Which is excessively micro-managed of Director Fury.
posted by Grangousier at 1:15 PM on March 26, 2017


Fury planned the rally 'round the flag death of Agent Coulson way in advance...
posted by Apocryphon at 1:20 PM on March 26, 2017 [2 favorites]


The Henry Allen story is a big deal in Flash comics from Geoff Johns that revamped the character in the 2000s, I think

Ah, that might explain it. He pretty much checks in and out of DC comics after 2000. I will ask him about that, though. Odds are he has either never read it or doesn't remember. Thanks!
posted by Kitteh at 1:23 PM on March 26, 2017


Who or what are The Avengers avenging?

I used to be kinda bummed that Marvel's premier super-team and the centerpiece of all their great movies was called The Avengers instead of something more noble-sounding like The Justice League.

But watching Luke Cage in his TV show make promises to keep people safe that he definitely did not have the power to keep made me realize that Thor, Stark, Vision, Wanda, Hulk--none of them really have the power to prevent a determined villain from killing a bunch of people or blowing up a big chunk of a city. The most they can really promise is that anyone who does so is punished and can't do it again. They can be avengers.

On the other hand, Superman, Flash, and Green Lantern are powerful enough to look a villain in the eye and say, "Nobody dies today. Nobody." -- and mean it. But writers are usually too boring to realize how much more interesting that is than a straight-up fight and how far it can go toward solving the usual problem of powerful heroes who just stand there forgetting to use their powers.

Imagine how much more badass Man of Steel would have been if it were about Superman facing a bunch of Kryptonians who are new to all this yellow sun power and have no chance of beating him in a fair head-to-head fight but are constantly a hair's breadth away from killing people and Clark has to find a way to defeat them while they're constantly ganking him as he rushes to save people.

Imagine how much more powerful the courtroom bomb scene in BvS would have been if the tragedy was that even with all his speed and power, Superman couldn't quite save everyone (instead of him just dumbly standing there and not saving anyone).
posted by straight at 1:31 PM on March 26, 2017 [10 favorites]


On the subject of black DC heroes, I think I previously said that Batman v Superman would have been worth it alone if it meant that Steel was coming back. They'd better get Shaq to play him and everything.

Also, since DC apparently can't use the name Captain Marvel anymore, they should just get Dwayne's Johnson's Black Adam to join the Justice League. He'd be no more of an antihero than their Punisher-style Batman and he can at least introduce himself without turning into a little kid.
posted by straight at 1:36 PM on March 26, 2017 [4 favorites]


Not seeing the cameos and star power in the DC world; I mean, like or dislike; Robert Redford? That's iconic. And that Stan Lee dude; how does he keep showing up in these films anyway?
posted by buzzman at 3:36 PM on March 26, 2017


Fuck this film and the wave it rides in on.
posted by turbid dahlia at 4:37 PM on March 26, 2017


like 98% of these scenes appear to take place in an unrecognizable fake-place made entirely of dark grey swirls

Buffalo?
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 5:03 PM on March 26, 2017 [11 favorites]


Imagine how much more badass Man of Steel would have been...

I can't go any further with this line of thought.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:25 PM on March 26, 2017 [3 favorites]


straight, that's pretty much the same way I'd fix Man of Steel.

Superman has been studying the whole history of Krypton, thanks to dad. He's a genius. Red Son style. Bit by bit, he is slowly maneuvering the Kryptonians to an empty space. Antartica, for example. Once there, he gives a variation on the 'world of cardboard' speech from the animated Justice League movie, and HE BEATS THE EVER LIVING SHIT OUT OF THE KRYPTONIANS. He beats them so badly, (yet never kills or maims) that they plead for mercy, and agree to leave and never come back.

posted by Ghidorah at 7:47 PM on March 26, 2017 [1 favorite]


Why you all down on Cyborg, he's the coolest guy on Teen Titans Go!

Yeah, and you have plenty of exposure to him there, because TTG is literally over 40% of Cartoon Network this week, which is down from the 50+% it's was for a month ending a couple weeks back. Meanwhile the most popular show on CN, Steven Universe, has had new episodes pushed back for two weeks to make room, with no end in sight.

It's not just superhero movies WB is failing at, it's leaking out to their other media outlets. They're so desperate to make the DC characters work in media that it's consuming whole channels.
posted by JHarris at 8:27 PM on March 26, 2017


Why you all down on Cyborg, he's the coolest guy on Teen Titans Go!

I'm not down on Cyborg. He's a great character. I'm genuinely irritated at what they've done with him in this film, because he looks awful.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 9:07 PM on March 26, 2017 [3 favorites]


...Superman facing a bunch of Kryptonians who are new to all this yellow sun power and have no chance of beating him in a fair head-to-head fight but are constantly a hair's breadth away from killing people...

[activating rant]
Look, I get that Superman and the Kryptonians are incredibly strong on Earth. Smash through buildings, throw people into next week, fly and laser beams and every conceivable power they need to fix the problem at the last second but is conveniently forgotten the next time that power would stop a bad thing from happening at all. They're strong. Granted.

Superman punches a human, human goes flying away. Makes sense. Superman punches fellow Kryptonian, Kryptonian goes flying just like a human - but they're equal in strength. Makes no sense. If even the strongest human punches me, I'm not going to travel more than 6, 7 feet tops (unless it's staggering backwards with my arms pinwheeling for added effect). All the ridiculous MoS battles, heck even back to the Superman II battles, make no sense. They should be able to take a punch from a fellow Kryptonian without zooming away.
[rant ended]

straight's got a great idea. You can say Superman's been on Earth longer, he's absorbed more yellow sun so he's stronger. But Zod and crew have military training, presumably including hand-to-hand combat, and they think strategically. What's Superman's weakness? Needing to save people. So attack his weak point. Superman's never as interesting when he's being Ultimate Gladiator instead of being human.
posted by GhostintheMachine at 5:57 AM on March 27, 2017


but they're equal in strength. Makes no sense. If even the strongest human punches me, I'm not going to travel more than 6, 7 feet tops

But they're subject to gravity and physics; why wouldn't they get knocked way away if they got hit by the equivalent of like a hundred trucks? The only way they wouldn't is if they were managing to brace themselves against the ground, but then they'd be transferring all that force to the ground and the concrete would buckle and slide like a rug.
posted by Greg Nog at 7:06 AM on March 27, 2017


The same reason getting hit by the equivalent of a hundred trucks doesn't end up with their internal organs spewing out their spine, or a miss doesn't throw the attacker forward.
posted by GhostintheMachine at 7:35 AM on March 27, 2017


Mind though, it works both ways. Equal and opposite reaction and all that. When you punch someone, your fist flies one way and your body goes back, which matters less with humans because the force you exert is not that great compared to your mass and friction, so bracing against the ground works for that.
posted by JHarris at 7:54 AM on March 27, 2017


Man of Steel frustrated me because it had all the parts required for a good Superman movie, but for some reason included lots of OTHER parts, and then the ultimate assembly was just depressingly turgid.

Dawn of Justice was a completely terrible title, but I actually liked it a LOT more than MoS. It wasn't MCU-level good, but it was a reasonable launching point for more films. Gadot sold me for sure, and I totally accept and enjoy Affleck's Batman. The bad writing hurt the overall effort, and Cavill is really, really weak, but at this point we're sort of inured to it with DC.

I'll see both WW and JL, and hope for the best here, but I also understand it's probably not a rational hope.

Also, I totally get how you can read Cyborg as problematic, but I suspect he was introduced as African-American at the time in part to address how completely WHITE comics were in 1980 (and remain). Were there ANY other Teen Titans of color?

Finally, and this should probably be its own thread, but am I really the only one who found Logan maudlin and hamfisted in it sentimentality? I liked Dawn of Justice better, honestly.
posted by uberchet at 8:41 AM on March 27, 2017


Just to throw an unrelated hand grenade into this discussion: You know who I liked? Brandon Routh as Superman** Yeah, I'll totally cop to that.
Loved him, loved his channeling of his Inner Christopher Reeve.
THAT'S the Superman I always wanted to see in this series. I can only imagine what it would be like if DC had turned over the reins to Bryan Singer, as opposed to Zack Snyder. At least the fights would be better lit.

**Didn't like much else, but Routh was wonderful.
posted by Major Matt Mason Dixon at 8:44 AM on March 27, 2017 [4 favorites]


All the ridiculous MoS battles, heck even back to the Superman II battles, make no sense.

Until you've figured out the physics explaining how Superman can fly, it seems pretty pointless trying to nitpick the physics involved when Kryptonians punch each other. Clearly there's a lot going on in that universe we don't understand.
posted by straight at 9:52 AM on March 27, 2017 [4 favorites]


You know you've gone astray when your Justice League movie looks just like your Watchmen movie. (Possibly slightly more drab.)
posted by He Is Only The Imposter at 10:25 AM on March 27, 2017


Also, I totally get how you can read Cyborg as problematic, but I suspect he was introduced as African-American at the time in part to address how completely WHITE comics were in 1980 (and remain). Were there ANY other Teen Titans of color?
posted by uberchet at 8:41 AM on March 27


Outside of Gar being green and Kor'i being orange, you mean? (Just kidding.)

Speaking of lack of colour of an entirely different kind, I was discussing B vs. S with somebody who hadn't seen it. I mentioned Jason's memorial case and pulled up the clip on YouTube. The former DC reader said he couldn't recognize the suit as a Robin uniform because there was no colour in it. He thought it was just another badly lit Bat suit. See DC film people, your movies need more colour if people can't even identify which uniforms are which.
posted by sardonyx at 10:44 AM on March 27, 2017 [1 favorite]


For a slightly more serious answer, Thunder and Lightning were around for a while. I'd have to give the topic a bit more thought. Nothing obvious is coming quickly to mind but I jumped in and out of Titans continuity and storylines.
posted by sardonyx at 10:48 AM on March 27, 2017


Imagine how much more badass Man of Steel would have been...

I can't go any further with this line of thought.


Yeah, that's not really what I want from a Superman movie either. My point is that I don't think Snyder even hits what he's aiming for, much less hitting what he should be aiming for. Man of Steel and BvS aren't just bad, they're boring.
posted by straight at 11:12 AM on March 27, 2017


I was super excited for this trailer. Still excited for the movie, and I'll go see it. But...

Maybe it's me, and the particulars of the character that I've seen previously, but i expect Aquaman, King of the Seven Fucking Seas, to have maybe a little more gravitas. Jason Momoa LOOKS great, and he acts like a frat boy. #notmyking

Also? Gal Godot is lovely, and I think she gonna bring great stuff to the Wonder Woman character, but two women of my acquaintance were all, like, "could she have toned those arms JUST A LITTLE?"

I have no idea who Ezra Miller is but, aside from being FAR TOO YOUNG to be Barry Allen, I'm liking the energy he brought to the Bruce Wayne conversation.
posted by hanov3r at 1:31 PM on March 27, 2017


Also? Gal Godot is lovely, and I think she gonna bring great stuff to the Wonder Woman character, but two women of my acquaintance were all, like, "could she have toned those arms JUST A LITTLE?"

Sorta like how some people can't believe an actor playing Superman could lift an entire aircraft carrier unless he's at least 6 feet tall?
posted by straight at 2:17 PM on March 27, 2017


No, more like she's generally drawn with defined musculature (not, like, She-Hulk levels of definition, but visually muscled), and Gal's arms lack that definition. *shrug*

DC has generally attempted to make their male heroes appear to be well muscled, as their comic counterparts are, and they don't appear to have done that for the one woman.
posted by hanov3r at 3:38 PM on March 27, 2017 [1 favorite]




Since we're still posting DC news, here's the latest on Black Lightning (hint: it's an absolutely terrible costume).
posted by sardonyx at 6:43 PM on March 30, 2017


Gal Godot is lovely

But frustratingly tardy.
posted by Grangousier at 12:51 PM on April 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


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