Short and descriptive: Penis seat!
March 31, 2017 8:47 AM Subscribe
When a new style of seat suddenly appeared on Mexico City's metro system, it was labelled as inappropriate, uncomfortable, humiliating and embarrassing. It was supposed to be.
Here; we'll dispense with this first: #notallmen
Here; we'll dispense with this first: #notallmen
"It's important not to stigmatise all men as violent and potential attackers of women," he said.
Yes, of course, this is the most important message to take away from this campaign.
On the other hand, I kind of feel that this lets women riders be harassed not only by men riders but also by the seats.
posted by GenjiandProust at 9:02 AM on March 31, 2017 [47 favorites]
Yes, of course, this is the most important message to take away from this campaign.
On the other hand, I kind of feel that this lets women riders be harassed not only by men riders but also by the seats.
posted by GenjiandProust at 9:02 AM on March 31, 2017 [47 favorites]
I kind of feel that this lets women riders be harassed not only by men riders but also by the subway seats.
This was my first reaction. I already have to live in a world where dudes draw dicks on every available surface in order to make women feel uncomfortable. Now I have to also have mass transit in on that action?
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:04 AM on March 31, 2017 [22 favorites]
This was my first reaction. I already have to live in a world where dudes draw dicks on every available surface in order to make women feel uncomfortable. Now I have to also have mass transit in on that action?
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:04 AM on March 31, 2017 [22 favorites]
women were to be offered a small, city-branded whistle that they could toot when they felt threatened.
Wish I could stop laughing helplessly at "toot when they felt threatened."
I think my problem with this one is: did any guys sit on the penis seat and get a reasoned shock? Who doesn't look at their seat on the metro and perceive the moulded penis that they would not want to sit on? I'd understand the analogy more if, instead, a robot hand randomly sprang out of the Guys Only chair and fondled your thigh, but I guess you can't implement that without problems.
posted by monster truck weekend at 9:09 AM on March 31, 2017 [4 favorites]
Wish I could stop laughing helplessly at "toot when they felt threatened."
I think my problem with this one is: did any guys sit on the penis seat and get a reasoned shock? Who doesn't look at their seat on the metro and perceive the moulded penis that they would not want to sit on? I'd understand the analogy more if, instead, a robot hand randomly sprang out of the Guys Only chair and fondled your thigh, but I guess you can't implement that without problems.
posted by monster truck weekend at 9:09 AM on March 31, 2017 [4 favorites]
This does nothing to get at the root of the problem and basically just adds to the number of dicks people have to deal with every day, in addition to taking up a seat on an already-crowded subway system.
Is there a name for this subset of the law of unintended consequence?
It's important not to stigmatise all men as violent and potential attackers of women
Needs #notallseats
posted by aspersioncast at 9:10 AM on March 31, 2017 [6 favorites]
Is there a name for this subset of the law of unintended consequence?
It's important not to stigmatise all men as violent and potential attackers of women
Needs #notallseats
posted by aspersioncast at 9:10 AM on March 31, 2017 [6 favorites]
Ninde, who does not want to be known by her full name, says she has no trust in the female-only carriages after she was assaulted in one last year when a man ejaculated over her.
wtf?
posted by strelitzia at 9:14 AM on March 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
wtf?
posted by strelitzia at 9:14 AM on March 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
Speaking as someone who once sat on a seat in the NYC subway that was directly next to vomit, I can't believe anyone is passing up a seat for something as trivial as this
posted by Automocar at 9:14 AM on March 31, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Automocar at 9:14 AM on March 31, 2017 [6 favorites]
It's a really odd thing to be sanctioned by the city itself. Are they looking for lawsuits and complaints. Because if you think men don't like that, wait 'till you hear from women who sit on it.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:16 AM on March 31, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:16 AM on March 31, 2017 [2 favorites]
Speaking as someone who once sat on a seat in the NYC subway that was directly next to vomit, I can't believe anyone is passing up a seat for something as trivial as this
posted by Automocar at 12:14 PM on March 31 [+] [!]
Women don't want to because most of them have already been fucking sexually assaulted, so i doubt they want to look at a damn penis let alone sit on it.
Men: homophobia, probably
posted by FirstMateKate at 9:18 AM on March 31, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Automocar at 12:14 PM on March 31 [+] [!]
Women don't want to because most of them have already been fucking sexually assaulted, so i doubt they want to look at a damn penis let alone sit on it.
Men: homophobia, probably
posted by FirstMateKate at 9:18 AM on March 31, 2017 [6 favorites]
It seemed like a dumb idea to me, until I read this:
Holly Kearl, who founded the US-based website Stop Street Harassment, said there was something to be said for turning the focus away from women for once.
When she attended the UN Women Safe Cities Global Leaders' Forum in Mexico City last month, she noted the onus of change was often put on women.
"Too often initiatives around women's safety focus on what women should or should not do, so it is refreshing to see a creative campaign aimed at men," she said.
posted by My Dad at 9:28 AM on March 31, 2017 [6 favorites]
Holly Kearl, who founded the US-based website Stop Street Harassment, said there was something to be said for turning the focus away from women for once.
When she attended the UN Women Safe Cities Global Leaders' Forum in Mexico City last month, she noted the onus of change was often put on women.
"Too often initiatives around women's safety focus on what women should or should not do, so it is refreshing to see a creative campaign aimed at men," she said.
posted by My Dad at 9:28 AM on March 31, 2017 [6 favorites]
Seems like it would suck if you're physically unable to stand on the train and the only seat left is the dick seat.
posted by indubitable at 9:30 AM on March 31, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by indubitable at 9:30 AM on March 31, 2017 [2 favorites]
Harassment on the subway is out of control, let's add more penises into the mix.
posted by tobascodagama at 9:33 AM on March 31, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by tobascodagama at 9:33 AM on March 31, 2017 [3 favorites]
Fortunately, the seat won't just happen get off at the same station and just follow you for another seven blocks, or start aggressively hitting on you and start yelling epithets when you say no.
posted by fragmede at 9:37 AM on March 31, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by fragmede at 9:37 AM on March 31, 2017 [19 favorites]
Nothing like playing off of deeply-ingrained homophobia/gay panic to try to convince men not to act like animals towards women.
posted by blue suede stockings at 9:43 AM on March 31, 2017 [25 favorites]
posted by blue suede stockings at 9:43 AM on March 31, 2017 [25 favorites]
women were to be offered a small, city-branded whistle that they could toot when they felt threatened.
Would it be unreasonable for #yesallwomen to blow it continuously at all hours of the day? Sort of like vuvuzelas at the South African World Cup, a constant, inescapable, citywide roar. It would at least be hard to ignore.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 9:45 AM on March 31, 2017 [25 favorites]
Would it be unreasonable for #yesallwomen to blow it continuously at all hours of the day? Sort of like vuvuzelas at the South African World Cup, a constant, inescapable, citywide roar. It would at least be hard to ignore.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 9:45 AM on March 31, 2017 [25 favorites]
Kids ride the subway, too. This is so wrong. Scare them and body shame the boys while you're at it.
posted by waving at 9:48 AM on March 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by waving at 9:48 AM on March 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
I just picture the guys all taking the seats around it and waiting for a woman to accidently sit and then jeering at her. So she stands there trapped in the car with guys asking her if she'd rather sit on a real one. And the whole thing makes me want someone to be fired.
posted by 80 Cats in a Dog Suit at 9:48 AM on March 31, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by 80 Cats in a Dog Suit at 9:48 AM on March 31, 2017 [16 favorites]
"Too often initiatives around women's safety focus on what women should or should not do, so it is refreshing to see a creative campaign aimed at men," she said.
I do agree with this, and I generally like humorous or puckish approaches to raise community awareness, but it's just a dick seat. I'm a woman who's been sexually assaulted and I'd sit on the dick seat if it was the only option because I have short-cycle endo and often don't want to stand a whole commute without, say, a bunch of morphine. I feel that all this does is make an uncomfortable chair that startles some people who sit down on it without looking first, and I bet most people aren't going to think "Oh my God, now I know sexual assault is actually terrible" but instead "Oh my God, turns out plastic penises are uncomfortable to sit on".
People have also covered the possible homophobia aspect -- I wish it had just been groping hands. Having it be an actual moulded penis adds a sort of sad farcical aspect.
Personally, I would prefer justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow's idea of ceaseless tooting.
posted by monster truck weekend at 9:56 AM on March 31, 2017 [7 favorites]
I do agree with this, and I generally like humorous or puckish approaches to raise community awareness, but it's just a dick seat. I'm a woman who's been sexually assaulted and I'd sit on the dick seat if it was the only option because I have short-cycle endo and often don't want to stand a whole commute without, say, a bunch of morphine. I feel that all this does is make an uncomfortable chair that startles some people who sit down on it without looking first, and I bet most people aren't going to think "Oh my God, now I know sexual assault is actually terrible" but instead "Oh my God, turns out plastic penises are uncomfortable to sit on".
People have also covered the possible homophobia aspect -- I wish it had just been groping hands. Having it be an actual moulded penis adds a sort of sad farcical aspect.
Personally, I would prefer justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow's idea of ceaseless tooting.
posted by monster truck weekend at 9:56 AM on March 31, 2017 [7 favorites]
What purpose is this going to serve? Is any sexual-harassing man riding the subway going to encounter this and think "oh, I should be a different person"? Are there any people who are encountering this and having some major patriachary-society-based epiphany about sexual harassment? I bet most people on the subway who come across this are thinking "oh what the hell fuck no" entirely about it taking up a seat and it being offensive in other ways rather than stepping back and having some big Art School Analysis (based on the placard, supplemented by the exhibit pamphlet, enforced by an artist Q&A) about the piece.
It's art. I get that. I appreciate that it's art. It's not a public awareness campaign. The concept is Banksy, the execution is alienating.
posted by hippybear at 9:57 AM on March 31, 2017 [6 favorites]
It's art. I get that. I appreciate that it's art. It's not a public awareness campaign. The concept is Banksy, the execution is alienating.
posted by hippybear at 9:57 AM on March 31, 2017 [6 favorites]
I'm usually a big proponent of both "the perfect is the enemy of the good" and "at least they're trying," but this is awful.
As far as I can tell, their plan for addressing sexual harassment and assault in public places is to make even more people people feel sexually vulnerable and hope that:
1. It somehow affects the people they are trying to reach more than it does the people they are trying to protect; and
2. It somehow magically teaches them a lesson
posted by 256 at 10:01 AM on March 31, 2017 [4 favorites]
As far as I can tell, their plan for addressing sexual harassment and assault in public places is to make even more people people feel sexually vulnerable and hope that:
1. It somehow affects the people they are trying to reach more than it does the people they are trying to protect; and
2. It somehow magically teaches them a lesson
posted by 256 at 10:01 AM on March 31, 2017 [4 favorites]
I have to join with the majority here in asking what the fuck they were thinking.
posted by howfar at 10:01 AM on March 31, 2017
posted by howfar at 10:01 AM on March 31, 2017
Through this, was lead to and really sobered by this article by Andrea Noel, mentioned by the BBC above, about her experiences being assaulted in Mexico City and the absolutely mad and gruelling aftermath (which includes the enormous #MiPrimerAcoso march and the subsequent mayoral shitty whistle plan).
TW for sexual assault, rape, and truly abhorrent trolling. Astonishing read though, I do recommend it.
posted by monster truck weekend at 10:12 AM on March 31, 2017 [4 favorites]
TW for sexual assault, rape, and truly abhorrent trolling. Astonishing read though, I do recommend it.
posted by monster truck weekend at 10:12 AM on March 31, 2017 [4 favorites]
What purpose is this going to serve?
They feel like they're doing something and that's important.
Actually doing something is not so important, but it'll look good on a resume.
posted by Confess, Fletch at 10:40 AM on March 31, 2017
They feel like they're doing something and that's important.
Actually doing something is not so important, but it'll look good on a resume.
posted by Confess, Fletch at 10:40 AM on March 31, 2017
How to stop sexual harassment on public transport:
- Blast skunk juice everywhere to remind people to bathe.
- Fill the aisles with food scraps to remind people not to eat.
- Blast the carriage with hardcore death metal to remind people to turn down their devices.
- Blow a constant stream of second hand smoke to remind people not to smoke.
- Put cocks everywhere. EVERYWHERE.
See? No more harassment. Also no-one riding the train.
posted by adept256 at 10:46 AM on March 31, 2017 [8 favorites]
- Blast skunk juice everywhere to remind people to bathe.
- Fill the aisles with food scraps to remind people not to eat.
- Blast the carriage with hardcore death metal to remind people to turn down their devices.
- Blow a constant stream of second hand smoke to remind people not to smoke.
- Put cocks everywhere. EVERYWHERE.
See? No more harassment. Also no-one riding the train.
posted by adept256 at 10:46 AM on March 31, 2017 [8 favorites]
> what the fuck they were thinking
My guess is that they were thinking "these days, if you want the kids to listen, you have to be funny." What they weren't thinking is that jokes about sexual assault aren't.
But "awww, is it uncomfortable sitting on a plastic dick? So sorry. Now think about how uncomfortable it is riding the subway as a woman" is maybe not completely invalid, is it? I mean, I don't think it works, and it's not a reasonable analogy, but maybe it'll make a few people think who wouldn't have otherwise...
posted by kleinsteradikaleminderheit at 10:46 AM on March 31, 2017
My guess is that they were thinking "these days, if you want the kids to listen, you have to be funny." What they weren't thinking is that jokes about sexual assault aren't.
But "awww, is it uncomfortable sitting on a plastic dick? So sorry. Now think about how uncomfortable it is riding the subway as a woman" is maybe not completely invalid, is it? I mean, I don't think it works, and it's not a reasonable analogy, but maybe it'll make a few people think who wouldn't have otherwise...
posted by kleinsteradikaleminderheit at 10:46 AM on March 31, 2017
I'm a train rider so I'm already pissy at a seat being made unusable. But I think they could have accomplished the same discomfort value with a seat covered in small plastic pyramids or LEGO something OTHER than a penis.
posted by kimberussell at 11:00 AM on March 31, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by kimberussell at 11:00 AM on March 31, 2017 [2 favorites]
I don't tell this story often. 10th grade: I (male, then very young looking) took a trip to NYC to visit some friends. I ended up on the subway by myself around mid-morning.
A guy (likely in his 60s) approached me and, having seen me looking at the map, asked if I needed directions. He sat down across from me. I replied that I was fine. Then he asked what subway stop I was getting off at. Then he wanted to know the intersection I was going to (didn't tell). Then he gave me his email address. I politely nodded. Then he wanted my email address. He said he wanted to keep in touch. I declined: "I don't give out my email to strangers." He said he wanted to know me better. He wanted to know why I wasn't being friendly: "I gave you mine." I didn't look at him. He stayed put, smiling and staring at me.
I was flipping out inside. There weren't many people in the car and none seemed to notice. I thought I was about to be kidnapped. I got out before my stop and sprinted.
When I met up with my (female) friends later that day, my story sounded so quotidian to them. To this day, that remains the most frightened I've ever been.
You can say you believe women, but sometimes it takes such an event to begin to have a clue. Objects can't enlighten experiences.
posted by cichlid ceilidh at 11:47 AM on March 31, 2017 [23 favorites]
A guy (likely in his 60s) approached me and, having seen me looking at the map, asked if I needed directions. He sat down across from me. I replied that I was fine. Then he asked what subway stop I was getting off at. Then he wanted to know the intersection I was going to (didn't tell). Then he gave me his email address. I politely nodded. Then he wanted my email address. He said he wanted to keep in touch. I declined: "I don't give out my email to strangers." He said he wanted to know me better. He wanted to know why I wasn't being friendly: "I gave you mine." I didn't look at him. He stayed put, smiling and staring at me.
I was flipping out inside. There weren't many people in the car and none seemed to notice. I thought I was about to be kidnapped. I got out before my stop and sprinted.
When I met up with my (female) friends later that day, my story sounded so quotidian to them. To this day, that remains the most frightened I've ever been.
You can say you believe women, but sometimes it takes such an event to begin to have a clue. Objects can't enlighten experiences.
posted by cichlid ceilidh at 11:47 AM on March 31, 2017 [23 favorites]
Penis Seat would be an excellent name for a band.
posted by SisterHavana at 11:53 AM on March 31, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by SisterHavana at 11:53 AM on March 31, 2017 [3 favorites]
I think this is a very counter-productive idea with loads of problems, but I am also a bit baffled by the responses indicating that an abstract depiction of a penis is the problem. That's not the problem. Like, it's not something that's really at all appropriate to public transit, but there are numerous issues without needing to staple some body shaming on top.
posted by byanyothername at 12:25 PM on March 31, 2017
posted by byanyothername at 12:25 PM on March 31, 2017
there are numerous issues without needing to staple some body shaming on top.
You seem to be using a definition of "body shaming" that's different from the ones I'm familiar with, and I don't want to argue against a point you're not actually making. Can you expand?
posted by Lexica at 4:16 PM on March 31, 2017 [4 favorites]
You seem to be using a definition of "body shaming" that's different from the ones I'm familiar with, and I don't want to argue against a point you're not actually making. Can you expand?
posted by Lexica at 4:16 PM on March 31, 2017 [4 favorites]
It starts a conversation, which I don't think is a bad thing.
posted by soakimbo at 9:52 PM on March 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by soakimbo at 9:52 PM on March 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
I was JUST IN Mexico City and I took the Metro like 4 times and still failed to see this.
I'm disappointed in myself and just felt MeFi should know, I guess
posted by nicodine at 10:39 AM on April 1, 2017
I'm disappointed in myself and just felt MeFi should know, I guess
posted by nicodine at 10:39 AM on April 1, 2017
I was JUST IN Mexico City and I took the Metro like 4 times and still failed to see this.
You know, it actually wouldn't surprise me if this was one of those """thought-provoking""" hoaxes that get passed around every once in a while... Granted, BBC is a more reputable outlet than the ones that usually run those hoax stories, but shit gets past the editors sometimes.
posted by tobascodagama at 10:53 AM on April 1, 2017
You know, it actually wouldn't surprise me if this was one of those """thought-provoking""" hoaxes that get passed around every once in a while... Granted, BBC is a more reputable outlet than the ones that usually run those hoax stories, but shit gets past the editors sometimes.
posted by tobascodagama at 10:53 AM on April 1, 2017
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posted by 80 Cats in a Dog Suit at 9:00 AM on March 31, 2017 [7 favorites]