Speaking as an old, I'm here for this
April 12, 2017 8:05 AM   Subscribe

 
This has been doing the rounds on my Facebook feed, courtesy of the many musicians I know. The replies are resoundingly in favor of starting shows earlier. I couldn't agree more. One of the main reasons I don't go to shows is because it makes for a late evening, and even when I was young and unencumbered, I didn't like it.

One musician friend actually approached a venue and asked if they would consider 8 pm start times for shows and was floored with the no he received. He made a good point: you'll be selling more alcohol and food if people have to show up earlier. The manager didn't even think about it. Just said no and that was that.

Plus, I mean, most of my musician friends have day jobs. Like, you know, to pay the fucking bills. So they play their shows late and they're out past midnight but they still have to get up and work the next day like the majority of us. It's expected that they're supposed to either be starving artists or give up doing what they love so they can pay the bills. I don't think it should be an either/or scenario.
posted by cooker girl at 8:10 AM on April 12, 2017 [52 favorites]


Amen. I play guitar and sing and do various instrumentation for several bands, and I also work a 9-5 M-F job. It can be exhausting to load equip after work, unload at the show, wait 3 hours or more to play, tear down, load up the car, and unload somewhere else. When your friends can't even come see you because the show is too late, it is extra sad to be struggling to get there myself to play for an empty room on a weeknight.
posted by agregoli at 8:10 AM on April 12, 2017 [12 favorites]


Can someone explain to me, a person who was an Old in spirit long before becoming one in body, what the justification is for starting a show at 11:30 PM on a Wednesday? Or, any day, really? Like, when the venues say "no" what is their stated reason?
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:12 AM on April 12, 2017 [38 favorites]


Also climate control and seating of some kind. Sorry but these old bones aren't going to stand on a bare concrete floor for 4 hours with no AC when it's 80 degrees out.
posted by Ghostride The Whip at 8:14 AM on April 12, 2017 [13 favorites]


I'm 50. I saw more than my share of Grateful Dead, Jerry Garcia Band, Widespread Panic, Gov't Mule, ABB, etc shows in my time. I start work at 6:30, with ( 3 days a week ) an hour commute to Saratoga.

If I make it to the 2nd set of a theater show ( 9:30 - 10ish ), it's a rare thing. Seeing a band that starts at 11pm, regardless of the bourbon stocked at the bar , is a non-starter.

Also. Etymotic musician's earplugs. The inexpensive version is the best 20 bucks you'll ever spend ( every show is 10dB too loud these fix the fatigue. I have custom ear-molds for mine... )
posted by mikelieman at 8:16 AM on April 12, 2017 [14 favorites]


I would really like shows to start earlier, but I'm also not sure it's as big a help as they hope it might be. One of Toronto's iconic music venues, Hugh's Room, recently went bankrupt, and they started all their shows at 8pm. Still, if shows were earlier, I'd go to more of them.

My days of staggering home at 2am with takeout spicy ginger beef from Rol San after a 12:15 headlining set at the Horseshoe are really, really far behind me. (Staggering from exhaustion, not drunkenness. If I was drinking, I wouldn't even be awake at that hour.)
posted by jacquilynne at 8:16 AM on April 12, 2017 [8 favorites]


The example I use is that Frank Turner played here last year and did two shows: one at 6:30 pm, the other at 9 pm. My husband and I were so thrilled about the earlier timeslot because it meant we got to see a musician we like very much and be in bed before 10 pm.

I wish more places would do this because I am no longer young, my hearing is starting to go (I make sure I have earplugs before I see any live music), and really just don't like being out super late anymore.

Tbh, I am all in favour of more social events starting earlier!
posted by Kitteh at 8:17 AM on April 12, 2017 [9 favorites]


Why the Hell do shows start so damned late anyway? Is it because touring bands are spending the morning and afternoon on the bus between venues, maybe? But then why do shows for local bands ALSO start so fucking late?
posted by tobascodagama at 8:18 AM on April 12, 2017 [7 favorites]


I'd like to add that I end up missing a lot of bands I'd love to see because of stage times. Even in my cute lil city, if you're getting on stage at 10-11 pm, I am not gonna be there and I'm gonna be sad because I didn't get to see you.
posted by Kitteh at 8:20 AM on April 12, 2017 [2 favorites]


This whole thread is going to be nothing but people saying "oh god yes!"

Having said that, oh god yes! I have many talented friends who play music, and I love to see their shows. But if they're not coming on until 10pm on a Tuesday night, then I just can't go.
posted by Ragged Richard at 8:20 AM on April 12, 2017 [15 favorites]


Why the Hell do shows start so damned late anyway?

8pm just ain't rock and roll, maaaaan.
posted by HighLife at 8:22 AM on April 12, 2017 [17 favorites]


My experience of this is way out of date and I was never a regular "in the scene", so take it with a grain of salt. But when I used to go see local bands play live at small venues, the show start time would be publicized as something like 9pm. But if you got there at 9pm, you would sit and drink while people faffed around setting up amps and doing sound checks and whatnot. The actual music would start, maybe around 10:30. With an opening act. The house would still be pretty empty, and there'd be more drinking, and people would be basically ignoring the music. The opening act would finish up and there'd be more equipment fiddling, and sometime after midnight the place would fill up (as much as it was going to) and the main act would come on. The cognoscenti knew to not even bother showing up before midnight, and it was just rubes like me that got there at the official start time.

So when they talk about starting earlier, here, what do they mean? Are these venues actually officially saying the shows start this late? (In which case I'm amazed they'd get them on stage before dawn.) Or is this writer describing the actual facts on the ground? And if they're describing the facts on the ground, why not campaign for shows to start "on time"?
posted by elizilla at 8:26 AM on April 12, 2017 [24 favorites]


I was at a metal show last night where the headliner (Astronoid Rocks!) started promptly at 9:40 p.m. - perfect rock and roll time for all ages, I think!
posted by mctsonic at 8:26 AM on April 12, 2017 [4 favorites]


But if they're not coming on until 10pm on a Tuesday night, then

last time I looked (and it's been a while) that's an early start time for a headliner in my town, or more to the point, it might be the time they tell you on the phone, but that's just so you show up early enough to get another drink or two into you -- the headliner starts at 11-11:30-midnight ...

my only guesses as to the rationale are A. the later things get, the more likely folks are to be exhausted enough to just keep drinking (if that makes any sense, it doesn't, but since when does alcohol make us rational?), B. the drugs that everybody's on who work the clubs and bars don't really kick in until later.
posted by philip-random at 8:26 AM on April 12, 2017 [5 favorites]


Also would very much like all shows to be non-smoking, but apparently marijuana smoke and e-cig fumes don't count as smoke indoors, and outdoors you're the rude one for asking them to go somewhere downwind. The combo of late nights and smoke keeps me from spending money and time on live music.
posted by asperity at 8:27 AM on April 12, 2017 [4 favorites]


After last call was pushed back by an hour in toronto the problem got worse. Even when I lived in the city having the headliner start at 12.30/1am was a pain in the arse. I was at a show on the weekend that started at 9.30 and closed down at the agreed midnight and it was awesome. I think I was in bed by two am and it was glorious.
posted by saucysault at 8:28 AM on April 12, 2017


I know it's about booze. For the dozens of live shows I saw when in Atlanta, yeah, you got to the venue early enough to meet up with friends and drink a bit before the band started. And generally you keep buying drinks just to keep you going while you're rocking out. It was fun, but exhausting and expensive.
posted by Kitteh at 8:28 AM on April 12, 2017 [2 favorites]


A lot of the shows I've gone to are places that are restaraunts until 10 or 11, then become a place for shows. So maximizing both time periods for money (first from food, then from drinks) seems to motivate some venues.
posted by saucysault at 8:30 AM on April 12, 2017 [2 favorites]


I'm all in favor of this, however, I must be a *really* Old, because one of the compromises suggested in the article, having concerts start at 9PM, still seems really late to me for a weeknight. One of my favorite current artists is coming to SoCal next month. I was really hoping to get a chance to see her, but it is pretty much a non-starter since the concert venue is a good hour or so away from me under the best of circumstances, it is on a Tuesday night, and the show starts at 9 with two opening acts, so no telling when the feature performer will actually take the stage.
posted by The Gooch at 8:30 AM on April 12, 2017 [11 favorites]


As an aging hipster and old school indie music scene crank/occasional performing musician, I agree 1000%. Even the bands are usually sick of hanging around so late and hate the schedule slippages that are the norm. Also, shorter bills are better. Under no circumstances should a non festival event book more than three bands for a night, and even three is pushing it if you don't limit the opening acts' time on stage.
posted by saulgoodman at 8:32 AM on April 12, 2017 [7 favorites]


I was at a metal show last night where the headliner (Astronoid Rocks!) started promptly at 9:40 p.m. - perfect rock and roll time for all ages, I think!

The best-attended metal shows that I go to start very early in the evening and are all-ages. If people are serious about reviving the metal scene in the Raleigh and Durham area, they should bring back the early, all-ages shows. And that's all I got to say about that.
posted by NoMich at 8:34 AM on April 12, 2017 [2 favorites]


Add my voice to the choir. I've got PJ Harvey tickets for tomorrow night, and the 8:30 starting time is...

( •_•)
( •_•)>⌐■-■
(⌐■_■)

...music to my ears.

YEEEEAHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:38 AM on April 12, 2017 [32 favorites]


I LOVE this idea. This is super timely for me as I'm at work with a hangover because I stupidly KEPT DRINKING at a late show last night because it went on forever. (So I suppose I can see that side of things -- that the alcohol sales will be stretched out with a later start.)

But MAN, just like the metal shows mentioned above, I used to hit up the all-ages matinee punk shows at ABC No Rio in NYC and I remember thinking that it was such a revelation to hear rock and roll in the middle of the day. It made it no less hardcore.
posted by knownassociate at 8:38 AM on April 12, 2017


Another musician with a day job chiming in to say I'd be OK with it. Fortunately, a lot of the shows I play are wedding gigs and corporate events, with downbeat times that aren't ridiculous. But club dates for us are generally doors at 8, opener at 9, us at 10. I'm in a band that does this, and I find it hard to come out to support other bands that do it.

Having said that, day jobbers have a hard enough time as it is leaving work early to travel to out-of-town gigs. Shifting start times earlier would mean needing to load in earlier. The last travel date we had was a wedding on Long Island where the band needed to be set up, tuned and quiet by noon. That meant leaving Virginia and arriving in NYC the night before just so we could get to the venue by 9 a.m.
posted by emelenjr at 8:39 AM on April 12, 2017 [3 favorites]


One of my favourite current venues to see shows in Toronto is the Mod Club. They often book bands for an early start and then become a dance club after the concert ends around 11ish. The 19 year olds on E or whatever it is 19 year olds take these days can stay up all night and dance, and the rest of us can go home at a civilized hour.

It's a double-win for the club. They get an early draw -- dance kids wouldn't be there buying drinks at 8pm anyway -- and still get to stay open until last call selling more drinks to a completely different audience.

Of course, I'm currently unemployed and broke so I don't see many shows. But if I did, I'd definitely see them there.
posted by jacquilynne at 8:45 AM on April 12, 2017 [9 favorites]


"Well, I look at my watch; it says 9:25, and I think Oh, GOD! I'm still alive! We should be on by now!"

I haven't been able to go many shows since I moved to the Bronx. While I have a job where I work from home, so I could possibly tweak my workday if I don't have a meeting right at 9AM, all the bands I like play on the LES/EV/somewhere in downtown Manhattan or in parts of Brooklyn that are difficult to get to. If I take a car service, that's easily $90 to get home after a show. And they start so late that by the time I would get home, it's 3 in the goddamn morning if I take the train.

I'm a natural nightowl, but unfortunately I do have to work during the day.

The solution, of course, is to get a job that pays me enough to live in Brooklyn Heights again, right? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! ::sigh::
posted by droplet at 8:54 AM on April 12, 2017


I suspect the idea a club would serve more alcohol and food by opening earlier may not be as likely as it may sound. It's likely easier to get crowds in early and have them wait for the headlining band then it is to get them to stay after the headliner performs, so more booze sold for late concerts may be a reasonable bet in most instances. Younger crowds that don't drink will be harder to make as much money off of for that reason, so it'd have to be made up some other way, like in increased ticket/door prices or in trying to sell more food or whatever else they could.

There are also at least some people who do like to hang out with friends into the later hours as they don't have the same sorts of responsibilities, but don't want to hang out in half empty club unless there is good reason to since there are other bars they could go to instead just as easily.

None of that is to say earlier hours couldn't work, I'm just not convinced it would be as much a win win proposition for clubs as it may first seem.
posted by gusottertrout at 8:55 AM on April 12, 2017 [3 favorites]


I work music events in the Bay Area. The later the show goes, the later we can sell beer. The more beer we sell, the more tips my crew makes and the more money our employer makes. We keep selling until the last possible minute allowed by the venue. The venue has an interest in getting people out the door once the show is over, so people standing around finishing their beer interferes with that.

As a old, I'm all about the earlier shows. As a beer & liquor vendor... I dunno. Maybe people would get their drink on earlier and have more of the evening to come down afterward. How much beer are people going to drink earlier in the evening rather than later? I'd be willing to roll with it.

There's currently a bill in California that, if passed, would allow cities to extend last call from 2am to 4am. Cities that have seem to have seen an actual decrease in drunk driving bc people don't start pounding drinks at 1:50am.

I'd love to see both earlier show times and 4am last call. Dancing & recorded music is great for late night.
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 8:56 AM on April 12, 2017 [10 favorites]


People who have to go to work in the morning are *not* the target audience for your typical club with late-night local music; the target audience is people who don't have to get up early, and want to stay up late hanging out and drinking (and drinking and drinking...) -- the clubs that cater to this clientele make more money per-butt-in-seat than a show that starts earlier, full of people who just ate dinner and aren't going to drink because they have to be sober in the morning.

At the same time, they also don't want to alienate their other customers (when we're talking about venues that also cater to other demographics) by throwing potentially bad local music at them. They want to make as much money as possible serving coffee|dinner|drinks to the crowd that leaves earlier, then make more money from local bands and the friends/family/acquaintances that local bands tend to pack their own shows with, even if the show itself is mediocre.

tl;dr: typical local music venues are attempting to maximize their profit, and on average don't actually care about the local music scene itself.
posted by davejay at 9:00 AM on April 12, 2017 [3 favorites]


We're seeing the New Pornographers tomorrow night; there's one opener and the show starts at 8. In my experience, the venue is pretty prompt about time - and they have to be done in time for people to get the last train back home if they don't want the place starting to empty out as people leave so as to avoid a $50+ car fare home. I know I'll be tired on Friday but hey, it's Friday!
posted by rtha at 9:02 AM on April 12, 2017 [2 favorites]


I've wanted shows to start earlier since I was in high school and had to be in class at 7:20 am. Now I have to be at work around 8am, and have less capacity for staying up late or standing on a concrete floor (chairs please! floor only is ableist). Having a regular hours job means I go to a lot fewer shows, and I really love shows. I've flown across the country for shows, I've traveled hours on buses, I've arranged to come in to work late. But I can't do that on the regular - those are special occasions only.

I've had slightly better luck with a couple of Boston venues when I lived there, and they were dedicated to getting the headliner off in time for people to take the T home. Maybe that was just at the Paradise? It sure wasn't the case at Great Scott when I saw the Slits.
posted by bile and syntax at 9:03 AM on April 12, 2017 [1 favorite]


Our local jazz club has two shows: 7 and 9, so everybody's happy. But I realize this doesn't work with the kind of musical acts this thread is about.
posted by kozad at 9:26 AM on April 12, 2017 [2 favorites]


We're seeing the New Pornographers tomorrow night; there's one opener and the show starts at 8. In my experience, the venue is pretty prompt about time - and they have to be done in time for people to get the last train back home

Well, the New Pornographers play small theaters, not shitty local scene rock bars, right? Those usually don't have the dreaded 2-or-3-opening bands and the main act starting at midnight thing going on.
posted by thelonius at 9:37 AM on April 12, 2017 [6 favorites]


Memphis clubs are absolutely notorious for starting shows late. Like, headliners go on at midnight or 1 AM. It's something of a chicken and egg issue. Now, the audiences expect it to go late, and won't show up if you advertise an early start time, because they don't believe you. So bands who want to start earlier get the experience of playing their whole set and then the audience shows up and goes, when do you start? This has happened to me several times—once when my band was playing with a burlesque show. It was Halloween season, so the dancers had water balloons full of fake blood and pasties with needles on them. We played and the girls danced to an audience of about 10 people. Then the band got to play pin the blood balloon on the breast with the dancers. It was fun and frankly pretty sexy. So while we were hanging around with these topless girls drenched in blood, suddenly 50 heavily tattooed guys come barging in the front door of the club, wanting a show. Turns out there was a tattoo convention in town. They were disappointed.

I did documentary about the Memphis music scene from 1978 to 1995, and one of the things I was amazed to discover was that this late show feedback loop between audience and band had been going on since the 1960s.
posted by vibrotronica at 9:39 AM on April 12, 2017 [5 favorites]


A good venue for this in Toronto is the Dakota Tavern.
They've almost always got an early show, and it's usually packed. We've seen Norman Blake (Teenage Fanclub) and Joe Pernice (Pernice Brothers/Scud Mountain Boys) play together there countless times, and they always start at 6pm! Which seems nuts, but it's awesome. We bike down, see the show, enjoy several beverages, then go out for a nice dinner around 9:30pm.
Then there's a turnover and they have another band around 10. Win-win.
posted by chococat at 9:39 AM on April 12, 2017 [4 favorites]


People who have to go to work in the morning are *not* the target audience for your typical club with late-night local music

True, but I want to be the target audience for somebody! I am happy to spend money on overpriced alcohol and expensive tickets if it means good music and getting home at a reasonable hour without a blinding headache.

Senior early-bird drinking is my preferred outing, but even karaoke doesn't start until 9.

All my live music expenditures for the last couple of years have gone to opera performances, where they're actively trying to court me with "young" opera fan events, shows start on time and they tell you how long they'll last, and I can sit comfortably and breathe easily.
posted by asperity at 9:46 AM on April 12, 2017 [11 favorites]




Yeah, late starts for shows are all about selling booze as long as they possibly can - which is of course why a ton of small clubs do the thing where the advertised supposed start time is 9 but the real start time is like 10. Because booze is where they make their profit; even big shows in real theaters and stadiums often break even at best on ticket sales. So the small clubs just kind of assume that keeping people out drinking til after midnight is the way to go, that's how they've always done it.

The thing is, IMO, is this has been an outmoded concept for a long time, at least in the US - by the late 90's when the culture as a whole had generally embraced "drunk driving is NOT cool", and more and more states/municipalities started cracking down on drunk driving, with lower BAC limits and harsher penalties and more cops pulling people over, the idea of drinking until 2 started to lose its luster. Even the young folks who don't have a problem pulling their day job on 4 hours of sleep tended to switch to water by midnight so they could sober up for the drive home. So it didn't seem like the clubs were selling all that much booze late, except to maybe the hardcore regulars. Maybe this has changed back with the growth of Uber and Lyft, I dunno, but I think most live music venues haven't really thought about it.

Plus there's (often) the sort of hope/assumption that there's gonna be a sudden wave of walk-ups in the half-hour just after the supposed start time. Which is almost inevitably a pipe dream, but that doesn't prevent tons of promoters or bands going "Hey we're gonna start the first set a little later, hope that a few more people show up."

Although as vibrotronica points out, part of the problem is there's often a sort of feedback loop where audiences are so used to late starts that they don't believe it when the venue advertises an earlier start time. So, I mean, I'm all about the idea of starting shows earlier and I think a ton of clubs would see their attendance improve if even slightly earlier shows became the new norm, but there's no doubt that some venues or cities are gonna have a bumpy ride during the transition.
posted by soundguy99 at 9:51 AM on April 12, 2017 [4 favorites]


Although as vibrotronica points out, part of the problem is there's often a sort of feedback loop where audiences are so used to late starts that they don't believe it when the venue advertises an earlier start time.
Yeah, most early shows I've been to have had some kind of a "THIS IS AN EARLY SHOW: DOORS AT 6, SHOW AT 7 SHARP" caveat when you buy the ticket.
posted by chococat at 9:55 AM on April 12, 2017 [3 favorites]


I saw Monster Magnet on a sunday a few years ago. There was some big football (soccer if you're so inclined) event that evening, so they changed the time to about 2 in the afternoon. It was Fantastic! I was able to take the train home after, at a reasonable hour, and got home in time for dinner. More of this please!
posted by mirthe at 9:55 AM on April 12, 2017 [1 favorite]


I saw Daveed Diggs with his (Hugo nominated!) band Clipping at Subterranean in Chicago last month. It was a Thursday night show with doors at 6 PM, followed by two openers starting at 7 PM, and Clipping was on by 8:30 PM. Show was done and I was taking selfies with him by 10 PM.

Best. Show. Ever. I'm officially An Old, and I'm super in favor of an early start. (Was this whole post a thinly veiled excuse to brag about taking selfies with Daveed Diggs? Yes, yes it was.)
posted by merriment at 10:03 AM on April 12, 2017 [21 favorites]


Also climate control and seating of some kind.

And non-painful dB levels please... (I'm no engineer, but just cranking it up to 1000 doesn't make things sound better, always.)
posted by cotton dress sock at 10:04 AM on April 12, 2017 [5 favorites]


Hell to the yes. As a mid-40s parent, anything beyond 10 pm is Touching the Void nowadays, especially if it's not Fri or Sat.

(Then again, three out of four of us in my band are mid-40s dads, and even if we're the opening act starting at 8 pm we usually don't get home and unpacked until after midnight...)
posted by gottabefunky at 10:23 AM on April 12, 2017 [1 favorite]


(I'm no engineer, but just cranking it up to 1000 doesn't make things sound better, always.)

I am an engineer, and I totally 110% agree with you.

Unfortunately, this is not always under the control of the engineer. . . . .

(I mean, snare drums were designed to be loud and carry a long way so that soldiers could march in time and be given orders via drum patterns, and when someone's whaling away on the thing as hard as they can in a 50' x 50' room there's not a lot an engineer can do.

Which is one of the "classic" soundtech jokes presented as "this really happened to a friend of a friend" - the tech is working a small club (usually a country bar) and decides that there's no point putting microphones on the drums because they're gonna be plenty loud enough, and the band is swinging into their first set and the owner of the bar comes rushing up all mad about how the band is too goddamn LOUD and the engineer better fix it and fast and the engineer points out that they don't even have any mics on the drums at which point the owner says, "Well, PUT some mics on 'em and turn 'em DOWN !!!")
posted by soundguy99 at 10:28 AM on April 12, 2017 [22 favorites]


I guess that bar shows here go past midnight but all the club or theater shows that I've been to for years seem to start at 8:00 and finish by 10:30 or so.
posted by octothorpe at 10:32 AM on April 12, 2017 [1 favorite]


I recently did a profile for a local blog about 41 Players, a Brooklyn band that players a weekly Monday 7 to 10 PM gig, previously in Red Hook and starting this month in Ditmas Park. Drummer Ethan Eubanks pointed out the benefits to both audiences and musicians.
posted by layceepee at 10:38 AM on April 12, 2017 [1 favorite]


Is this a US thing? Because I go to a lot of gigs here in the UK and am rarely home after 11:30pm. Stadium, theatre, university venue or shitty back room of a pub, it's pretty normal to have doors at 7, a couple of support bands, headliners about 9:30, everyone done by 10:30-11pm. Even places that have a later license tend to do it by having a DJ on after the headliner rather than putting the band on later.
posted by parm at 11:04 AM on April 12, 2017 [5 favorites]


what the justification is for starting a show at 11:30 PM on a Wednesday? Or, any day, really? Like, when the venues say "no" what is their stated reason?

As others have said, it's about alcohol (and sometimes food) sales.

One other reason is that a lot of the music scene used to be college focused, where parties/events really do start happening at 10-11PM. A lot of that scene dried up in the early 00s when mp3 downloading made amateur DJed events way cheaper than bands, but old habits die hard.

Almost all of the shows in my relatively hip neck of the woods have moved to 7 doors/8 opener/9 headliner schedules for club shows, so there is change going on.

at which point the owner says, "Well, PUT some mics on 'em and turn 'em DOWN !!!")

I did at some points contemplate whether I could mic up extremely loud instruments, flip the polarity, and try to cancel out some of the loudness... Not actually workable in a stage environment but it would have been nice.
posted by Candleman at 11:32 AM on April 12, 2017 [2 favorites]


This is the least Rock discussion ever.
posted by bongo_x at 11:32 AM on April 12, 2017 [14 favorites]


Is this a US thing?

Well, the article is Canadian, so at least partially a Canadian thing. But, yes, I think it's different on this side of the pond if for no other reason than liquor control laws here have traditionally been much more generous about when Last Call is. 2am is almost universal in Canada. The US varies more, but is basically never before midnight and sometimes much later. The average is still probably around 2am. Or, in the case of Nevada and Miami, never.

I know that the UK liberalized closing laws a bit a few years back, but perhaps not in the kind of timeframe that's likely to create this kind of cultural shift in when entertainment is expected to happen.
posted by jacquilynne at 11:33 AM on April 12, 2017 [2 favorites]


This is super true in Baltimore. Ads will say, door at 7, show starts at 8 (or 8 and 9) and the band will be all drinking with friends or doing whatever backstage, and the music will actually start at 11 or 11:30. If they want to have a late show, OK, but at least advertise the time truthfully. I've walked out of shows in Baltimore (and D.C.) before the music even started, because the music started two hours later than I was expecting it to.
posted by newdaddy at 11:34 AM on April 12, 2017 [3 favorites]


The Minutemen specifically scheduled many shows starting around 5ish so that people could actually attend their shows and still sleep. It was much more of a working-class solidarity thing than a courtesy-of-sleep thing, but it was still right.
posted by ivan ivanych samovar at 11:41 AM on April 12, 2017 [15 favorites]


Montreal was always a nightmare for this. started at ten, three local starting bands, nothing would start really untill 1, get home b/w two and three
posted by PinkMoose at 11:48 AM on April 12, 2017


when someone's whaling away on the thing as hard as they can in a 50' x 50' room there's not a lot an engineer can do.

True! Here are my thoughts: 1) force venues to use decent acoustic materials in room design & place PA speakers in sensible places; 2) force venues to make earplugs available to patrons for cheap/free [for those who don't really think about it, + those of us who forget to bring the ones we have, & end up stuffing toilet paper in our ears and/or alternating taking noise/bathroom breaks & tearfully enduring an otherwise great set]; 3) for engineers: distract the drummer ahead of time (somehow, I feel this might not be super challenging) and stuff their kit with blankets
posted by cotton dress sock at 12:08 PM on April 12, 2017 [4 favorites]


It's not just live music where this is relevant. It applies across what we consider nightlife culture.

In San Francisco, drag and gender illusionist performances are high art, and in high demand. But good god, how are you going to have a show that ends at last call on a Tuesday night and expect anyone to come who isn't already working in nightlife? I was so, so happy when the Oasis opened a couple years ago, because they acknowledged this. They still have super late stuff, but now they have shows that start early enough to let even more people come--and they've been widely praised and heavily attended because of it!
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 12:11 PM on April 12, 2017 [9 favorites]


Oh God, yes. There is a monthly show near me that starts at 6 on Sundays and I love it. My wife and I can catch some live music and still get home in time for our usual early bedtime. That's often the only live music we catch during the month because everything else starts so late.
posted by maurice at 12:21 PM on April 12, 2017


force venues to make earplugs available to patrons for cheap/free [for those who don't really think about it, + those of us who forget to bring the ones we have, & end up stuffing toilet paper in our ears and/or alternating taking noise/bathroom breaks & tearfully enduring an otherwise great set]

Protip: if you're in that situation, check with the soundperson to see if they have extras. I almost always carried spares that I'd give to whoever asked.
posted by Candleman at 12:40 PM on April 12, 2017 [1 favorite]


So last year I found out Blue Oyster Cult was playing on my birthday at the casino near me, and we managed to find someone to get us on the list (I didn't even know I was so well connected).

I won't say it was the best show, but it was so geared towards older folks and I LOVED IT. I got to sit in a comfy seat the whole time; it wasn't so loud that I even needed earplugs; and I had a buffet, a show, and some slot machines and was home before midnight.

I kind of enjoy that secret party math of figuring out what time the band I want to see actually starts based on the genre, historical venue knowledge, and level of diy-ness. I often work in nightlife but am sober, so I never really want to be out much past midnight because the world really doesn't belong to folks like me at that point. A couple of weeks ago I went to see a dj who's listed time was 2-4am but because cops were there at midnight she went on at 1. I'm not even sure how that all works out, so the variables are always a surprise.
posted by jeweled accumulation at 12:42 PM on April 12, 2017


In Chile, whenever somebody I'd want to go see comes, it's usually as part of a multi-artist festival whatsit, which means I have to pay 2 or 3 times what I'd normally pay and wait until 1 or 2am for them to start if they're headlining, and suffer through a few hours of what kids today call music.

So nope, I usually don't even think about going.
posted by signal at 12:59 PM on April 12, 2017


If there was easy money in it, venues would do it. There must not be enough easy money in starting early.

I suppose a venue could prove everyone else wrong, but local people would have to make a point of attending those early shows frequently to make it stick. If enough people got into the habit of seeing an 8:00 show every week, even if they didn't absolutely love the band, and if they dropped some real money on food and drinks there every time, it would work.

So... if that's what you want, I guess watch for early shows and make them a success: go to them frequently and drop lots of money at them.
posted by pracowity at 1:30 PM on April 12, 2017 [1 favorite]


Meh. I work till nine every night, and there hasn't been a single show I have been able to go to without taking time off since I started this job five years ago.
posted by old_growler at 1:39 PM on April 12, 2017 [2 favorites]


Yeah, this is so counter to the situation in the UK, where the primary problem is getting people to come out early enough to actually catch any of the music before the venue's performance license curfew. Like, if the local council has decided that basically every venue is a noise issue after eleven (though for sine reason loud DJs are still fine??) then you're going to struggle to put on more than two bands and have anyone see the opener if they've got to get home from work, have food, and then travel to the place.
posted by Dysk at 1:42 PM on April 12, 2017 [2 favorites]


The show usually starts around seven
We go on stage at nine
Get on the bus about eleven
Sippin' a drink and feelin' fine


That which is good enow for classic G'n'R suffices for me.

Might have mentioned it before, but the latest headline start I ever saw at a small venue (~400 ppl) gig was late '90s/early '00s Biohazard. They'd been delayed getting across from France by bad weather in the English Channel. Support bands (Raging Speedhorn?) had long finished. Evan et al came on stage at gone 10.30pm for a gig scheduled to finish around 11pm. Hit the stage with only the most perfunctory of soundchecks and kept on playing as long as they could, still going with the house lights up by the end and having to stop on the dot of midnight or the venue would risk losing its licence. That's how it is, yo, that's how it iiiiissss!
posted by comealongpole at 1:44 PM on April 12, 2017 [1 favorite]


> This is the least Rock discussion ever

Let me make it even worse: as a suburban housewife, I wish shows were during the day so I could go while my kids are in school.
posted by The corpse in the library at 1:48 PM on April 12, 2017 [28 favorites]


Ladies aaaand gentlemen, I give you.... My Dying Bride - in matinée!

(I would be there for that!)
posted by comealongpole at 1:52 PM on April 12, 2017 [4 favorites]


Shows don't start on time because:

- Sound check takes way longer than anticipated
- The sound guy is late
- One of the bands is late
- There aren't enough people in the audience to justify starting the show
- Some other random shit gets in the way and delays the start time
- Something else

Musicians, generally, don't like going on at 1am, either. Especially headliners - which is why the band with the most clout usually opts for the middle spot when it is a mid-week show with middling-to-low anticipated attendance. "Headliner" isn't a plus in that scenario.

Lots of shows happen at venues without food, so you have to account for people getting out of work and eating dinner before coming to the show, which easily puts doors at 8pm in most cities.

My band played a gig once where we were supposed to go on around 10:30 or so but, just as we were setting up, I realized that the power supply for my audio interface had died. We use a lot of playback. So after a lot of cursing and scheming to find a replacement power supply, I decided to ride the G train back to our apartment, get the other audio interface I had purchased but never used (because of stupid Dell's dumbed-down BIOS that prevented me from converting USB3 ports to USB2 ports), bring it back (via subway) to the venue and reconfigure the audio routing. By the time we went on it was 1am, which meant a bunch of people had left. We did a line check and the sound guy and I started to argue, at which point I said "FUCK IT" and just started the show. It ended up being the best show we've ever played, according to the people in the audience. So sometimes later is better.
posted by grumpybear69 at 2:14 PM on April 12, 2017 [3 favorites]


Seconding Blake/Pernice at Dakota. Lakeview for early dinner, grab show and home by 9:00. Perfect Friday night and such good music.
posted by parki at 2:49 PM on April 12, 2017 [1 favorite]


The example I use is that Frank Turner played here last year and did two shows: one at 6:30 pm, the other at 9 pm.

Surely that means
Yeah, the doors are at 7, and the show starts at 8
A few precious hours in a space of our own
, right?
posted by ambrosen at 3:10 PM on April 12, 2017


Oh my god, I can't even see a 10pm movie without falling asleep. I'd love to see early shows at outdoor concert venues, like The Greek.
posted by Room 641-A at 3:18 PM on April 12, 2017 [1 favorite]


Like, when the venues say "no" what is their stated reason?

Because they have always done it this way.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 3:31 PM on April 12, 2017 [1 favorite]


I am definitely an Old now, but when I was in college in Minneapolis and going to shows pretty regularly, actually a lot of the shows at big venues like First Ave would start on the early side, like 8 or 9 (I mean, early for live music at a bar), so they could clear us out by 11 and get the dance crowd in, from whom I assume they made the real money. It was great even back then, because we could often get back to campus in time to go to a party and have a few hours for drinkin'. Ah, youth.

At shows at smaller venues, or later when I lived in Boston, we used to look for the piece of paper that had the actual times for the bands on it. It was always on white printer paper written in sharpie, taped up on a pillar somewhere, and it was always kind of infuriating: you KNOW when the different bands are going on! It's on a schedule! Why can't you TELL us??

The last time I went to a proper show at a club was in Brooklyn and it was a good show but oh god I was miserable. I had met other Old friends for dinner in Manhattan and when they went home afterwards, I was so jealous. But instead I made my way to Bushwick, where I glumly drank beer and whined to my brother who got me to go, and tried not to think about how much my feet hurt while I watched the (again, very good!) band and also all the adolescents flirting with each other and staring at their phones instead of the band.

In summation: I am Old.
posted by lunasol at 4:15 PM on April 12, 2017 [2 favorites]


In summation: I am Old.

I keep trying to deny it, but my rheumatiz keeps sayin' different.

PROTIP: In addition to earplugs, pop 2 advil before the show.
posted by mikelieman at 4:24 PM on April 12, 2017 [2 favorites]


I hesitate to say what seems pretty obvious, but the late start times suggest that keeping us Olds away is the whole idea.
posted by Twang at 4:37 PM on April 12, 2017 [23 favorites]


If there was easy money in it, venues would do it. There must not be enough easy money in starting early.

Assume a spherical music venue...
posted by tobascodagama at 5:16 PM on April 12, 2017 [6 favorites]


I'm going to side with the idea that lots of people say they would go to early shows, but they won't really go as much as they think, and they won't spend any money at the bar anyway.

I'm not using start time as an excuse, I'm old but I don't go to bed until 3 or 4 anyway. I'm just not going to a loud show unless the rare artist I really want to see is playing or I have to. And that really isn't that often.

As I get older the timeline gets warped. I used to go out "fairly often", which meant a couple of times a week. Now a couple of times a year is a lot.
posted by bongo_x at 6:39 PM on April 12, 2017 [4 favorites]


(Noting that I saw Wreckless Eric play an early show in SF last year that was all over by 8.15.)

It's about public transportation in Britain -- especially if you don't live on a Tube line.

If I went to see a show at the Mean Fiddler in Harlesden, I knew I'd be taking two night buses home, with likely long delays in between, because the shows at that venue started so late. Even going to something in Kentish Town or Kilburn ran a risk of missing the last train home to the depths of southeast London.
posted by vickyverky at 6:51 PM on April 12, 2017


"Hope I get old before I die"
posted by DoctorFedora at 7:22 PM on April 12, 2017 [2 favorites]


i am a pretty young person i think (23)? and have lived in toronto and montreal (currently in toronto, moving back to montreal soonish) for quite a while now and been an active member of the music scene/community, and am a shitty musician myself (have only played one show). but what this article is saying is that the problem is with venues and the music scene. there is a problem; back when i was 19 and just getting familiar with toronto and the music scene, i would show up to a show an hour after doors were supposed to have opened, and they'd still be closed, and things haven't much changed. same with montreal; one of the last shows i went to before i moved away was supposed to start at ten i think? and we started at 12:30 and people didn't start showing up until almost 1:00. i've been in this situation not infrequently, where people don't even bother going inside if they don't hear music playing already, so the show just starts with whomever's going first playing to whomever's already there (the other musicians, etc.)

as much as there is this internal problem, what the article is insinuating is that late shows aren't inclusive and that night culture/life is to blame for venues closing. that's total bullshit. lets' be clear: the main problem, here in canada's major cities, is rampant gentrification and asshole cops – not that shows are just too late for the average, hard-working, 9-to-5 canadian. the insinuation that "lateness" is not inclusive, or is exclusive, is also ... well, it's not bullshit, but the suggestion that it's exclusive is wrong; it's just not inclusive of a supposed norm. but majority of musicians and people who engage with the local music scene work in the service industry, especially in restaurants and bars, and so can't make it to early shows. so it just feels like the article is saying that artists/musicians should just get regular, steady jobs, and maintain "healthy" circadian rhythms, and then venues will stop closing – be an artist, and work a "normal" job (because we know you can't make enough money to get by being an artist or musician), and then other people with normal, steady, day jobs (who work so much harder than you snake-people, who just sleep all day - that's why you can't find jobs!) can come see shows to support musicians and venues
posted by LeviQayin at 7:35 PM on April 12, 2017 [5 favorites]


It's always seemed to me that the more you pay for a show, the more likely it is to start on time. Some nationally-known touring band is probably likely to start on the dot (or have their opening band start on the dot, play a perfunctory set, and then get the hell out of the way), while the further down the food chain you go, the later the shows get.

Or in other words, the more negotiating power that the band seems to have vs. the venue, the earlier (or at least on-time) the shows seem to be. I don't think this is accidental.

It seems almost certain that it's the venues who push for later start times—presumably because it maximizes their drink sales, by making the end time of the show as close to legal last-call as possible—while bands would on the whole prefer a more reasonable start time, so that they can play for the biggest audience.

I don't have a great solution, but it probably would be something involving venues that weren't so heavily subsidized by drink sales. Hard to execute, though. (FWIW, there are a couple of local venues near me that have free shows, mostly downmarket indie / local / garage / some-dude-with-a-guitar shows, and they start early... but that's because they don't have licenses to serve alcohol, and therefore don't bother to stay open past 10PM or so, probably because that's as late as it makes economic sense to serve food. So the shows invariably start at 7PM or 8PM if there's no opener. 10PM and it's lights-on, don't-haveta-go-home-but-ya-can't-stay-here time.) Though I have nothing against social drinking per se, there are some unpleasant ways that alcohol seems to affect the local music scene in most parts of the US, at least that I've been familiar with.
posted by Kadin2048 at 7:52 PM on April 12, 2017 [1 favorite]


So in Beijing there's this one bar that does shows until 3am sometimes, or not, it's called Temple, check it out if you're in town, but they have a no-tickets-ever policy. The place is purely a labor of love. So anyway, this place is pretty much all local acts, and shows almost ALWAYS start on time. Beijing, if it has anything resembling a last call, certainly doesn't enforce it at Temple. So whether shows end on time is pretty much up to the band. Often they don't.

Then there's Yugong Yishan, which starts universally starts shows an hour after after the stated start time, and has a strictly enforced "two-song encore" policy in which bands leave 15 minutes before their set is supposed to end. Door prices are almost stadium-high. It's obvious where the band makes their money vs. the venue here. People stream out at midnight on the dot, rendering Uber useless for an entire district of the city for 30 minutes. I pray they never have a fire.

DDC is somewhere in the middle, with tickets and start times that may or may not apply, They're pretty religious about end times, because bad sound insulation and cranky residential neighbors. Mao Livehouse has two closing concerts last year and they're still open. School is... The floor is sticky like a teenager's party and I don't think they know what clocks are.

I have no reason to be in bed early, and enjoy being up late, but schedule stupidity is 24 hours a day, and all five venues near my house have been known to start shows early. There are other venues I haven't listed, but it's not like not having last call makes much of a difference in my experience, or like starting early guarantees an early end.
posted by saysthis at 8:18 PM on April 12, 2017 [1 favorite]


Man, live music used to be a huge part of my life. But like bongo_x, I still rarely go to bed before 2 or 3 am normally, and yet I can't remember the last time I've gone to an actual show. It's ironic because music is one of the things I was excited to experience about SF, and yet, here I am, commenting on a Metafilter thread and eating Starburst alone in my apartment, lolz.

I have no idea how generalizable this is, but a much bigger problem than the time for me is that once you take transportation into account, it's just way too fucking expensive. I don't live in a hip enough neighborhood that venues are convenient, so if I add up taxis, door price, and the cost of a couple of beers, it's easily already $50. That's like, a quarter of my disposable income for the month. And if I don't take a taxi, I can go ahead and add 1.5-2 hours of riding the bus to my day (which already includes 2 hours).

Another problem is that at 32, I feel the effects of two beers the next day. But on the other hand, two beers is barely enough for me to be able to tolerate the baseline level of shitty attitudes you usually run into in bars and clubs. Snide remarks, shouting matches, self-appointed gatekeepers, passive-aggressive shoving (my god, the passive-aggressive shoving), patrons and bouncers who are actively looking for a physical fight, lurking homophobia if I'm not in a specifically queer space, tension between techies and anti-techies (I'm in neither group but people have projected both onto me), uuugghhh. It's so much more noticeable if you're sober and it makes me too nervous and annoyed to enjoy myself. (I also used to smoke weed, which helped me deal with shit, but I don't really smoke any more because it gives me The Fear -- another shitty age-related narrowing of experience.)

Anyway, both of these things are a lot more about getting older than they are about venue time changes. So I kind of expect bongo_x's right and a lot of people in the 30+ age range wouldn't really end up taking advantage of earlier start times if they're not already deep in some particular "scene."
posted by en forme de poire at 11:02 PM on April 12, 2017 [4 favorites]


I think another thing is that as I get older, the groups I know that I like mainly become too expensive for me to see live, and because I'm trying to spend more time on LOL MY "CAREER" HA HA HA I can no longer justify the time I used to spend trawling for lesser-known groups whose music speaks to me. So the carrot isn't there either. Though maybe I'm kidding myself because I definitely did just spend an hour on Metafilter.
posted by en forme de poire at 11:10 PM on April 12, 2017 [4 favorites]


I guess we'll have to change the saying from "if it's too loud, you're too old" to "if it's too loud and/or late starting, you're too old".
posted by readyfreddy at 12:10 AM on April 13, 2017


"If it's too loud you should write a sternly worded take down on your favorite social media site citing their irresponsibility, but with some positive suggestions about how we can make this better for all of us going forward."
posted by bongo_x at 1:01 AM on April 13, 2017 [4 favorites]


"If it's too loud you fucking keep it to yourself alright? We've got venues closing left right and centre over noise complaints already."
posted by Dysk at 3:08 AM on April 13, 2017


It was much more of a working-class solidarity thing than a courtesy-of-sleep thing, but it was still right.

I'm not seeing a distinction between these...

Anyway as far as shows and starting times and the like, I've started going to more plays and theater events because I actually do love going out and seeing stuff and will happily do so a few times a month. Bonus: so far I have not been hit on here by creepy straight dudes, I never need earplugs, and I always have a chair so my arthritic feet don't ache for days.
posted by bile and syntax at 4:54 AM on April 13, 2017 [3 favorites]


there really is something odd about music where you have to stuff earplugs in to listen to it
posted by thelonius at 5:24 AM on April 13, 2017 [3 favorites]


Yes, more early shows, please! Thanks to Spotify, for the past couple of years I've found that bands I really want to see are either the opening act, and I have no shame in skipping the headliner so I can get home by 11, or they're playing all ages shows, which start and end earlier. The best are the venues that turn into nightclubs after a show, so they are motivated to clear the kids out early so they can make their money on booze later (Royale can be great for this if it's a show + nightclub night). I've been really impressed with how tightly run The Sinclair is, too, they keep the bands on time. Most of the venues I go to put out the stage times on Twitter and Facebook the day of the show, for which I am perpetually grateful, though I still get there ridiculously early so I can get a good spot to stand. Lunasol, you totally brought back memories for me of looking for the handwritten list of stage times at the Middle East back in the olden days of the late 90s/early 00s.
posted by banjo_and_the_pork at 6:15 AM on April 13, 2017 [2 favorites]


Aside from hip clubs with bouncers that discriminate based on looks, the vast majority of music venues don't care if you're old. All they care about is 1) getting as many people into the place as possible and 2) selling as many drinks as possible, because alcohol has really high margins. That's it! Bigger venues also care about merch sales since they get a cut. But there is absolutely not an ageist conspiracy to keep out the olds. Olds have more money! Hence Billy Joel at MSG 100 nights in a row. Olds also love cover bands and "fake proms."

What there is is a trend, as we get older, to be less willing to put up with inconvenience and uncomfortable situations. The ability of our social circles to stay out until 2am just for fun diminishes rapidly as people have kids or get deeper into their careers or are simply less cavalier about money and time. Years of going to shows without hearing protection makes our ears over-sensitive and we start having to use earplugs because otherwise it is literally painful to listen. Physiology changes and we can't down beers like we used to (though switching to (fewer) low-ABV beers has helped me immensely). Culture shifts and we don't. Etc. Etc. Etc.

Mostly, though, if you are labeling yourself as an "old" - well, there's your main problem.
posted by grumpybear69 at 6:50 AM on April 13, 2017 [1 favorite]


this [shows starting later and later] feedback loop between audience and band had been going on since the 1960s

It certainly did in the 1970s. For years it seemed that any show I was ever part of on-stage, FOH, or in the audience that was scheduled for 9PM actually started at 9:40 -- like clockwork. Even if it seemed everyone was ready on time. It was drifting toward 10PM when I left the scene for a while.

But now I'm doing an open-mic thing that starts at 730 pretty much on-time every week. The bar keeps one employee on-duty for weeknights and they're locking up the place well before midnight.

There was a venue here -- regrettably closed recently after a good long run -- that often hosted live music on afternoons and early evenings. The owner rode herd over the volume levels, too, as a matter of course.

So it can be done.

snare drums were designed to be loud . . . when someone's whaling away on the thing as hard as they can in a 50' x 50' room there's not a lot an engineer can do.

As a sometime engineer and musician -- not a drumist myself -- I have to say that the advent of Roland V-drums and the like was one of the best things that ever happened to me. Quality drum sounds played by humans at human volume levels.

Miccing the kick drum for live bands in small rooms is another evil innovation from the 1970s (thanks, disco!). And now even wedding bands and DJs think an audience needs to have their sternums resonate to the bass frequencies or they aren't truly experiencing the music.


Incorrect.

--------------------------------------------
*And learn to tune you drums, too, Boffo, while you're at it. Some of us can still hear. Animals!
 
posted by Herodios at 7:02 AM on April 13, 2017 [1 favorite]


V-Drums are for the birds. They don't sound good and they don't feel good. One of the bands I toured with used them to reduce onstage noise and they were uniformly awful.

The cure for too much drum stage volume is - shocker - knowing how to play the drums! Good drummers can adjust their playing to the room.
posted by grumpybear69 at 7:10 AM on April 13, 2017


I disagree with your first statement, but agree with the second. I don't believe anyone is qualified to categorically dismiss the V-drum concept, out of hand. I know two players in particular who can make 'em swing and sing.

I had written -- then deleted -- a graph saying the absent a constitutional amendment mandating every drumist attend Berzerklee -- or even comm college -- and learn to play in time with feeling but softly, V-drums are the only way to fly.
 
posted by Herodios at 7:33 AM on April 13, 2017 [1 favorite]


Let me rephrase - V-Drums are not a substitute for real drums, just as an even the world's greatest digital piano isn't a substitute for even the most modest of spinets. I would glady go see KJ Sawka kill it on those things since he uses them for their strengths. A rock band with V-Drums, though, no thanks.
posted by grumpybear69 at 7:42 AM on April 13, 2017



You're certainly​ welcome to your opinion about them, but they already are substituting for 'real' drums, every night.
 
posted by Herodios at 7:52 AM on April 13, 2017


For me, it's not even the drums, necessarily (or even usually), that are the issue. It's that the dial gets turned WAY up on everything else, when "everything else" is an apparently unintentional mess of mud and needles that have a direct line to cochleas. You feel physically shaken up (in an unfun way), actually abused by the end of it.

there really is something odd about music where you have to stuff earplugs in to listen to it

(Has happened with everything other than jazz.)
posted by cotton dress sock at 8:06 AM on April 13, 2017 [1 favorite]


Years of going to shows without hearing protection makes our ears over-sensitive

I don't remember hearing any PSAs about it way back when :( I thought it was a thing one had to put up with. Hope the kids these days are smarter about it.
posted by cotton dress sock at 8:08 AM on April 13, 2017


For certain sounds and genres, drums just sound better if you're properly battering them. Same goes for a lot of (especially guitar) amplifiers, and then there's things like not being able to get a decently full and sustain-y reverb on a Fender spring unit without turning it up, which means you need to turn the main amp volume up to get a half-way decent wet/dry mix, and so you're forced to play with a certain minimum of volume if you want that surf sound, etc, etc. Then there's the fact that I just can't play half the stuff I perform at the required tempo if I'm pulling my punches, not going full tilt with my right arm. Yes, that's because I'm a crappy guitarist, but you simply can't get the same frantic tension by playing softly. Certain genes just don't work if they're too clean and nice (so no v-drums or triggers) or quiet. The sound of people going hammer-and-tongs at their instruments is the point, the volume is just secondary to the practicalities if how that's achieved.
posted by Dysk at 8:47 AM on April 13, 2017 [1 favorite]


(And always, always, always earplugs. When I'm on stage, when I'm in the audience, when I'm in a practice room with a drummer... I'll never understand people who go to gigs without them. Never.)
posted by Dysk at 8:48 AM on April 13, 2017 [3 favorites]


> I'll never understand people who go to gigs without them

Someone once pulled the earplugs out of my ear at a Girl Trouble show, as she was offended by them as a slur on the music. This was a fellow audience member. She gave them back right away; I'm going to presume she was drunk.
posted by The corpse in the library at 9:07 AM on April 13, 2017 [2 favorites]


opened for fugazi a few times in the nineties. all shows over by 9pm, no booze..$5
posted by judson at 9:07 AM on April 13, 2017 [3 favorites]


Someone once pulled the earplugs out of my ear at a Girl Trouble show, as she was offended by them as a slur on the music

Wow, that is tantamount to physical assault.
posted by grumpybear69 at 9:12 AM on April 13, 2017 [3 favorites]


It's also unfortunately not really outside the norm of (shitty) behavior at music venues, in my experience.
posted by en forme de poire at 12:04 PM on April 13, 2017


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