Goodbye, Phaedrus
April 24, 2017 6:14 PM Subscribe
Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance was one of “the” books of 70’s, and has sold over 5 million copies since it was released in 1974. It’s story of a narrator calling himself Phaedrus who explores the philosophical concept of quality while on a motorcycle journey with his son. It’s author, Robert Pirsig, died today at age 88.
Zen was Pirsig’s first and most famous book. He wrote a sequel of sorts 17 years later called Lila: An Inquiry into Morals. Lila also takes place during a journey, this time on a riverboat. Both books make use of autobiographical material, most famously, Pirsig’s metal breakdown and electroshock therapy.
Previously on Metafilter.
Zen was Pirsig’s first and most famous book. He wrote a sequel of sorts 17 years later called Lila: An Inquiry into Morals. Lila also takes place during a journey, this time on a riverboat. Both books make use of autobiographical material, most famously, Pirsig’s metal breakdown and electroshock therapy.
Previously on Metafilter.
In college I used to read this book while sitting or standing in the hallway before my Psychology of Learning classes, so it's inextricably linked in my mind with operant conditioning somehow (heh).
posted by limeonaire at 6:17 PM on April 24, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by limeonaire at 6:17 PM on April 24, 2017 [5 favorites]
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I'm perennially annoyed that the only thing I remember and am able to share from ZAMM is the very early example of the fixing of a motorbike with a shim made from a beer(?)can. It's been years. Need to re-read. Sorry to see you go, Mr Pirsig.
posted by comealongpole at 6:20 PM on April 24, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'm perennially annoyed that the only thing I remember and am able to share from ZAMM is the very early example of the fixing of a motorbike with a shim made from a beer(?)can. It's been years. Need to re-read. Sorry to see you go, Mr Pirsig.
posted by comealongpole at 6:20 PM on April 24, 2017 [3 favorites]
metal breakdown well it made me laugh anyway. Thanks for post CDA, i tried Zen when i was 13, again at 28 and finally 'got' it at 41, useful in lots of life areas but you need time, and headspace.
posted by unearthed at 6:23 PM on April 24, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by unearthed at 6:23 PM on April 24, 2017 [5 favorites]
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posted by Halloween Jack at 6:24 PM on April 24, 2017
posted by Halloween Jack at 6:24 PM on April 24, 2017
Thank you, Pirsig. You kicked off a love of philosophy, and eventually Zen itself. I'm not sure I'd be alive today had I not read your story.
posted by Strange_Robinson at 6:25 PM on April 24, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by Strange_Robinson at 6:25 PM on April 24, 2017 [11 favorites]
That book has been on my mind all week. I have to read it again. Fare forward Mr. Pirsig!
posted by Oyéah at 6:26 PM on April 24, 2017
posted by Oyéah at 6:26 PM on April 24, 2017
Oh my.
During my senior year of HS my English teacher told me to read Zen... he often suggested books to me and we'd meet and talk about them later. I'd never read anything like it before--that book stretched my brain and made a huge impact on me. It was really the first book I read that put into words the things that I'd been thinking about education and philosophy. I still have my paperback with all my underlinings and notes throughout. I'm not sure I'll ever go back and re-read it again, though--I'd rather keep my memories of how I felt reading it for the first time.
posted by bookmammal at 6:27 PM on April 24, 2017 [13 favorites]
During my senior year of HS my English teacher told me to read Zen... he often suggested books to me and we'd meet and talk about them later. I'd never read anything like it before--that book stretched my brain and made a huge impact on me. It was really the first book I read that put into words the things that I'd been thinking about education and philosophy. I still have my paperback with all my underlinings and notes throughout. I'm not sure I'll ever go back and re-read it again, though--I'd rather keep my memories of how I felt reading it for the first time.
posted by bookmammal at 6:27 PM on April 24, 2017 [13 favorites]
Pirsig was responsible for my teen brain to see the world from a different perspective.
posted by Alt255 at 6:27 PM on April 24, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by Alt255 at 6:27 PM on April 24, 2017 [10 favorites]
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posted by ZenMasterThis at 6:32 PM on April 24, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by ZenMasterThis at 6:32 PM on April 24, 2017 [1 favorite]
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ZAMM had a profound impact on me when I read it as a romantic, dreamy freshman in college. I dropped my plans to be some kind of physics/philosophy dude, and switched in to engineering the next semester, much to the chagrin of my high school mentors. I can't say that Pirsig's philosophical take on being a gear head was supported by the everyday realities of the engineering curriculum, nor by post-college engineering jobs, but there's little doubt it provided a push in the direction of my eventual academic career. It lit an aesthetic fire in my heart that burns to this day.
posted by mondo dentro at 6:33 PM on April 24, 2017 [6 favorites]
ZAMM had a profound impact on me when I read it as a romantic, dreamy freshman in college. I dropped my plans to be some kind of physics/philosophy dude, and switched in to engineering the next semester, much to the chagrin of my high school mentors. I can't say that Pirsig's philosophical take on being a gear head was supported by the everyday realities of the engineering curriculum, nor by post-college engineering jobs, but there's little doubt it provided a push in the direction of my eventual academic career. It lit an aesthetic fire in my heart that burns to this day.
posted by mondo dentro at 6:33 PM on April 24, 2017 [6 favorites]
I'm perennially annoyed that the only thing I remember and am able to share from ZAMM is
for me, it's the epiphany toward the end concerning his son. The father is wondering what's wrong with the kid, why he isn't seeing, feeling, getting the same stuff from the motorcycle journey that he is. And then he realizes, "he's been sitting behind me the whole, burrowed in, only really getting a good view of my back."
posted by philip-random at 6:34 PM on April 24, 2017 [23 favorites]
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A friend in high school suggested I read this book and a couple of others. All of the recommendations were really good ones, even though the genres were different (literature, fantasy, this).
This is one of those books that I've reread a number of times. Each time, was a completely different experience, although the last time I went through it, I didn't react as positively to it as I has the previous times, so I've left it on the shelf since then. (I'm guessing it was about the sequel came out.)
As it is for limeonaire above, even after my revisits to the book, it's one of those volumes that is linked to a very specific time and place in my mind.
posted by sardonyx at 6:35 PM on April 24, 2017 [3 favorites]
A friend in high school suggested I read this book and a couple of others. All of the recommendations were really good ones, even though the genres were different (literature, fantasy, this).
This is one of those books that I've reread a number of times. Each time, was a completely different experience, although the last time I went through it, I didn't react as positively to it as I has the previous times, so I've left it on the shelf since then. (I'm guessing it was about the sequel came out.)
As it is for limeonaire above, even after my revisits to the book, it's one of those volumes that is linked to a very specific time and place in my mind.
posted by sardonyx at 6:35 PM on April 24, 2017 [3 favorites]
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posted by wanderingmind at 6:37 PM on April 24, 2017
posted by wanderingmind at 6:37 PM on April 24, 2017
The concept that most stuck with me from this book was "mu" - neither on nor off.
posted by jillithd at 6:44 PM on April 24, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by jillithd at 6:44 PM on April 24, 2017 [5 favorites]
I didn't read this book until my 20's, and then I made a point of reading it yearly for the next 7 years or so. It always impacted me each time, profoundly and differently, and certainly affected my life. I still think about it, and Quality, on the regular. Thank you for posting this sad news.
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posted by juliplease at 6:46 PM on April 24, 2017 [3 favorites]
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posted by juliplease at 6:46 PM on April 24, 2017 [3 favorites]
Specific time and place... I was in graduate school working on an MA in philosophy. A fellow student in one of the classes recommended this book. I said Huh? It's just a best seller. He said he had the same reaction but he looked at it anyway. He told me to read it. So I did and I was really glad I did. At the time the book meant a lot to me and yes, I really can't say why now. But it's been staring at me from the shelf. I just gave a copy to a friend for her birthday. After all these years I guess I should see once more what was there. And the sequel too. Whatever was there must have buried itself deep down and now so many years later it's still doing something for me. Some life-forming experiences may not have been memorable but they were meaningful.
Thanks for the trip...
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posted by njohnson23 at 6:47 PM on April 24, 2017 [4 favorites]
Thanks for the trip...
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posted by njohnson23 at 6:47 PM on April 24, 2017 [4 favorites]
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posted by thermogenesis at 6:52 PM on April 24, 2017
posted by thermogenesis at 6:52 PM on April 24, 2017
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posted by coolxcool=rad at 6:53 PM on April 24, 2017
posted by coolxcool=rad at 6:53 PM on April 24, 2017
Zen... might have kept me alive through two miserable years in college. It hasn't been as critical to me in the last 30 years, but from 18 to 25 it gave me a bit of a lifeline and was more of a guidepost to Western philosophy than any class I took.
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posted by hwestiii at 6:57 PM on April 24, 2017 [4 favorites]
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posted by hwestiii at 6:57 PM on April 24, 2017 [4 favorites]
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posted by ivanthenotsoterrible at 6:57 PM on April 24, 2017
posted by ivanthenotsoterrible at 6:57 PM on April 24, 2017
A nice, long life. I never read it myself, for reasons unimportant, but I was definitely adjacent to it for basically my 20s. A lot of people I liked liked it.
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posted by rhizome at 7:00 PM on April 24, 2017 [1 favorite]
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posted by rhizome at 7:00 PM on April 24, 2017 [1 favorite]
Zen And The Art Of Motorcycle Maintenance was my introduction to the idea that you could think that hard about something; that you could focus on it, dig into it, keep digging, and continue wondering about something basically forever, and that this was not just ok, but worthwhile. It was also ok, and maybe not worthwhile, but not condemnatory, to go crazy while doing it. This led me to my philosophy degree, which I credit with being the fundamental maturing point in my life, mainly because that much hard thinking got my head screwed on really tightly. Since then I've had both confidence in my thoughts and a deep (and growing) awareness of the limitations of the same.
Later, Lila: An Inquiry Into Morals showed me how limited Pirsig was; how much he'd run down a blind alley with his attempt to fuse Western philosophy with a Zen sensibility, and ended up throwing arbitrary categories around in the finest tradition of the Enlightenment, and this was a wonderful death-of-a-guru moment for me. His deep honesty about the frailty of his own project is forever imprinted on me.
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posted by fatbird at 7:07 PM on April 24, 2017 [31 favorites]
Later, Lila: An Inquiry Into Morals showed me how limited Pirsig was; how much he'd run down a blind alley with his attempt to fuse Western philosophy with a Zen sensibility, and ended up throwing arbitrary categories around in the finest tradition of the Enlightenment, and this was a wonderful death-of-a-guru moment for me. His deep honesty about the frailty of his own project is forever imprinted on me.
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posted by fatbird at 7:07 PM on April 24, 2017 [31 favorites]
Like many here, I ZAMM because a high school teacher guided me toward it, and I had to read it a couple of times over a couple of years to understand all of what was going on.
I remember sleeping bags on picnic tables, and getting up early on weekends because there was no reason to sleep in. And red-winged blackbirds.
I later learned that
SPOILER?
Chris had been killed while trying to break up a fight outside the Zen Center in SF. It was so sad to me, but also reassuring that he had reconciled to Zen and, clearly, quality. And that I sure didn't want to read Lila because ... well, a bridge too far, I guess.
. and thanks, Mr. Pirsig, for helping me learn what philosophy was, and could be, and didn't have to be.
posted by allthinky at 7:10 PM on April 24, 2017 [1 favorite]
I remember sleeping bags on picnic tables, and getting up early on weekends because there was no reason to sleep in. And red-winged blackbirds.
I later learned that
SPOILER?
Chris had been killed while trying to break up a fight outside the Zen Center in SF. It was so sad to me, but also reassuring that he had reconciled to Zen and, clearly, quality. And that I sure didn't want to read Lila because ... well, a bridge too far, I guess.
. and thanks, Mr. Pirsig, for helping me learn what philosophy was, and could be, and didn't have to be.
posted by allthinky at 7:10 PM on April 24, 2017 [1 favorite]
My mom read it during the seventies and it was on our bookshelf essentially from the time when I was literate. I suspect it was the first book aimed at an adult readership that I read (I had exhausted the children's section of my local library by age eight or so) and his thoughts on the nature of quality stuck with me into my adult life, when the nature of quality became professionally relevant to me.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:13 PM on April 24, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:13 PM on April 24, 2017 [3 favorites]
Professor Dennis Moran assigned Pirsig's book, among others, in his Humanities Seminar class at Notre Dame back in '85-'86. I didn't read it.
I was, I am ashamed to admit, a more dissolute student then, and neglected a number of the books he assigned and which the small class would then discuss. Among the other works so neglected were also Wind in the Willows and Catch-22.
It wasn't until 30 years later, in 2016, that I finally read WitW, and found its idyllic, fanciful, depiction of the world of Mole, Toady and the others to be a delight. I've tried to read Catch-22 a couple of times since the '80s, but cannot seem to appreciate or accept its over-the-top, farcical depiction of war. Which, if I understand the theme of the book, is sort of the intended effect.
Two of the books Dennis (as he had us call him) assigned us that I DID read, however, have had profound effects in my life, though. Loren Eiseley's The Immense Journey has essentially become a sort of bedrock for my psyche and defines my worldview today. It is probably my favorite work of nonfiction. And Jonathan Livingston Seagull became a bridge upon which my late mother and I had what was probably the most profound meeting of minds ever.
I just turned 50 yesterday, and have been in an existential frame of mind. This post calls to mind my initial neglect of ZAMM. Catalyzed by Pirsig's passing, it's time, I think, to revisit the book. It will be the last of those I never read in that class thirty-two years ago.
(Dennis, I'm sorry it's taken me this long to complete the reading assignment. The other books you assigned that I read were all treasures. Thank you for being patient with me, and thank you for being the most influential professor I ever had.)
posted by darkstar at 7:15 PM on April 24, 2017 [22 favorites]
I was, I am ashamed to admit, a more dissolute student then, and neglected a number of the books he assigned and which the small class would then discuss. Among the other works so neglected were also Wind in the Willows and Catch-22.
It wasn't until 30 years later, in 2016, that I finally read WitW, and found its idyllic, fanciful, depiction of the world of Mole, Toady and the others to be a delight. I've tried to read Catch-22 a couple of times since the '80s, but cannot seem to appreciate or accept its over-the-top, farcical depiction of war. Which, if I understand the theme of the book, is sort of the intended effect.
Two of the books Dennis (as he had us call him) assigned us that I DID read, however, have had profound effects in my life, though. Loren Eiseley's The Immense Journey has essentially become a sort of bedrock for my psyche and defines my worldview today. It is probably my favorite work of nonfiction. And Jonathan Livingston Seagull became a bridge upon which my late mother and I had what was probably the most profound meeting of minds ever.
I just turned 50 yesterday, and have been in an existential frame of mind. This post calls to mind my initial neglect of ZAMM. Catalyzed by Pirsig's passing, it's time, I think, to revisit the book. It will be the last of those I never read in that class thirty-two years ago.
(Dennis, I'm sorry it's taken me this long to complete the reading assignment. The other books you assigned that I read were all treasures. Thank you for being patient with me, and thank you for being the most influential professor I ever had.)
posted by darkstar at 7:15 PM on April 24, 2017 [22 favorites]
In college I used to read this book while sitting or standing in the hallway before my Psychology of Learning classes, so it's inextricably linked in my mind with operant conditioning somehow (heh).
I read this a second time as part of a Psychology of measurement independent study course that included Wittgenstein, Feyerabend, Kuhn, Popper, Factor Analysis and Multi-dimensional Scaling. It pretty much destroyed my ability to take psychology seriously for a couple of years. Which was awkward because I had just been accepted into grad school for psych. ( It wasn't why I quit though that was because I sucked at key parts of what would have been my future profession).
posted by srboisvert at 7:21 PM on April 24, 2017 [1 favorite]
I read this a second time as part of a Psychology of measurement independent study course that included Wittgenstein, Feyerabend, Kuhn, Popper, Factor Analysis and Multi-dimensional Scaling. It pretty much destroyed my ability to take psychology seriously for a couple of years. Which was awkward because I had just been accepted into grad school for psych. ( It wasn't why I quit though that was because I sucked at key parts of what would have been my future profession).
posted by srboisvert at 7:21 PM on April 24, 2017 [1 favorite]
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posted by oneironaut at 7:24 PM on April 24, 2017
posted by oneironaut at 7:24 PM on April 24, 2017
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posted by falsedmitri at 7:28 PM on April 24, 2017
posted by falsedmitri at 7:28 PM on April 24, 2017
Wittgenstein
Reading Philosophical Investigations might have saved Pirsig a lot of suffering.
posted by thelonius at 7:36 PM on April 24, 2017 [4 favorites]
Reading Philosophical Investigations might have saved Pirsig a lot of suffering.
posted by thelonius at 7:36 PM on April 24, 2017 [4 favorites]
I absolutely adored this book, when I read it as a 30-mumble year old, but 30-mumble year old did wish I read it at age 14. Not that comparing books is easy or fair, but I found this book a much better coming of age book than Catcher in the Rye, which I couldn't stand.
posted by alex_skazat at 7:40 PM on April 24, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by alex_skazat at 7:40 PM on April 24, 2017 [4 favorites]
Reading Philosophical Investigations might have saved Pirsig a lot of suffering.
That might be subject to interpretation.
I'm a fan of Prisig. Big Influence on me.
posted by ovvl at 7:40 PM on April 24, 2017 [1 favorite]
That might be subject to interpretation.
I'm a fan of Prisig. Big Influence on me.
posted by ovvl at 7:40 PM on April 24, 2017 [1 favorite]
That book was hugely influential on my outlook on life when I read it in med school in the 1980s. I must have gotten a later edition of the book because I remember being heartbroken when I read the epilogue about Chris's death. What a remarkable man; it never really occurred to me that he was as old as he was..
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posted by TedW at 7:42 PM on April 24, 2017 [1 favorite]
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posted by TedW at 7:42 PM on April 24, 2017 [1 favorite]
Never read it. Gave it a couple of goes, but I was always too involved in what was on the syllabus than to read extra Philosophy which wasn't. Perhaps I'll give it another go during this year's camping trip...
My own personal failures aside -- his book meant a lot to many important people in my life, and brought many outsiders into the world of Philosophy. I commend him and thank him for that. Godspeed, sir.
posted by Capt. Renault at 7:50 PM on April 24, 2017
My own personal failures aside -- his book meant a lot to many important people in my life, and brought many outsiders into the world of Philosophy. I commend him and thank him for that. Godspeed, sir.
posted by Capt. Renault at 7:50 PM on April 24, 2017
I knew Chris in St. Paul back in the day, he was in my circle right when the book came out. His mom had a great cafe, really good cook. Even before publication I had the feeling Chris had spent too much time staring at his dad's back. I knew a lot of guys our age with the same problem, most of them weren't mentioned in books. The book was okay, but I knew the kid on the back seat.
posted by Floydd at 7:55 PM on April 24, 2017 [33 favorites]
posted by Floydd at 7:55 PM on April 24, 2017 [33 favorites]
When I was in high school in the 1970s, there were always a couple of guys around with copies of ZAMM, but I was deeply into SF and LotR at the time (and D&D), and was not interested in philosophy. But in 1992, I decided to ride my bike down the Pacific Coast from northern Oregon to San Francisco, and I needed something fat and hard to read to bring with me. So I found a copy of ZAMM at Powell's, and off I went.
I don't remember a lot, but I do remember sitting on the beach in Bodega Bay, yelling at Pirsig, because "quality" is entirely subjective. (I was an anthropology major in college...)
Still, any book that affected so many lives has to be respected. Well done, Mr. Pirsig.
posted by suelac at 8:09 PM on April 24, 2017 [7 favorites]
I don't remember a lot, but I do remember sitting on the beach in Bodega Bay, yelling at Pirsig, because "quality" is entirely subjective. (I was an anthropology major in college...)
Still, any book that affected so many lives has to be respected. Well done, Mr. Pirsig.
posted by suelac at 8:09 PM on April 24, 2017 [7 favorites]
I read this book (and PKD's VALIS) 30 years ago during the summer between 8th and 9th grade. For the first of 4-5 readings.
These two books changed everything forever for me. Cracked my egg wide open. I don't think that I was ever really aligned with his philosophy, but man. Man. Thanks for getting me going. It's all any of us can do. I'm crying now.
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posted by n9 at 8:11 PM on April 24, 2017 [5 favorites]
These two books changed everything forever for me. Cracked my egg wide open. I don't think that I was ever really aligned with his philosophy, but man. Man. Thanks for getting me going. It's all any of us can do. I'm crying now.
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posted by n9 at 8:11 PM on April 24, 2017 [5 favorites]
Requiem aeternam dona ei, Domine, et lux perpetua luceat ei. Requiescat in pace.
posted by ob1quixote at 8:12 PM on April 24, 2017
posted by ob1quixote at 8:12 PM on April 24, 2017
Favorite book, favorite author. Changed my life. I could totally relate to the mental breakdown, the father with mental issues, the truth in mechanics, all of it. That someone could be SO open with their issues and shortcomings was revelatory to me. I'd become a little unhinged myself, and reading that book let me know that these things happen, and that there's life after.
I moved to the US Virgin Islands in '94, recovering from too much LSD and too much school. I immersed myself in books for about 2 years, devouring everything at the public library. Eastern spirituality, western philosophy, sci-fi, whatever. They had a 1st edition ZAMM on their shelf that I coveted. Before I moved off island I brought all of MY books to donate to the library, and as politely as possible I asked the librarian if I could have the library's copy of ZAMM. I explained that in the 20 years that it had sat on her shelves it had been checked out 3x, twice my me and once in the 70's. I was the library's only "regular". She knew me and my love of books, and my love of that book. I further explained that my donated books were popular books that the library didn't have, modern stuff. Stuff people would check out. She said "no". She, and I, knew that I could check out that 1st edition and never return it. She didn't care. Rules are rules. I couldn't steal a book, especially not that book. It stayed in their collection.
I told that story to a family friend, a Berkeley grad and California native, while we were having dinner at their house. It was summer and we were outside in their backyard. The neighbor told me to hang on and went inside. He came back out with a MINT condition 1st edition of ZAMM. He said that I had to have it, that there was no other way. It's my most prized possession. I'm not really a nerd for books or 1st editions, but the way karma came around in the end is an important reminder for me still.
I hope Phaedrus (and Robert) find peace.
posted by karst at 8:17 PM on April 24, 2017 [57 favorites]
I moved to the US Virgin Islands in '94, recovering from too much LSD and too much school. I immersed myself in books for about 2 years, devouring everything at the public library. Eastern spirituality, western philosophy, sci-fi, whatever. They had a 1st edition ZAMM on their shelf that I coveted. Before I moved off island I brought all of MY books to donate to the library, and as politely as possible I asked the librarian if I could have the library's copy of ZAMM. I explained that in the 20 years that it had sat on her shelves it had been checked out 3x, twice my me and once in the 70's. I was the library's only "regular". She knew me and my love of books, and my love of that book. I further explained that my donated books were popular books that the library didn't have, modern stuff. Stuff people would check out. She said "no". She, and I, knew that I could check out that 1st edition and never return it. She didn't care. Rules are rules. I couldn't steal a book, especially not that book. It stayed in their collection.
I told that story to a family friend, a Berkeley grad and California native, while we were having dinner at their house. It was summer and we were outside in their backyard. The neighbor told me to hang on and went inside. He came back out with a MINT condition 1st edition of ZAMM. He said that I had to have it, that there was no other way. It's my most prized possession. I'm not really a nerd for books or 1st editions, but the way karma came around in the end is an important reminder for me still.
I hope Phaedrus (and Robert) find peace.
posted by karst at 8:17 PM on April 24, 2017 [57 favorites]
The interview: Robert Pirsig (The Guardian, Nov. 18, 2006)
"... The Seventies bestseller Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance was the biggest-selling philosophy book ever. But for the reclusive author life was bitter-sweet. Here, he talks frankly about anxiety, depression, the death of his son and the road trip that inspired a classic. "
posted by Auden at 8:23 PM on April 24, 2017 [6 favorites]
"... The Seventies bestseller Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance was the biggest-selling philosophy book ever. But for the reclusive author life was bitter-sweet. Here, he talks frankly about anxiety, depression, the death of his son and the road trip that inspired a classic. "
posted by Auden at 8:23 PM on April 24, 2017 [6 favorites]
Read Zen several times, starting as a child. Still think of his examples sometimes when I'm problem solving today. Especially the stripped bolt that suddenly grinds you to a complete halt when doing something you thought would be simple, and his analogy for when to apply the scientific method.
RIP.
posted by TheophileEscargot at 8:28 PM on April 24, 2017 [1 favorite]
RIP.
posted by TheophileEscargot at 8:28 PM on April 24, 2017 [1 favorite]
I am decidedly un-handy, but I am a car owner (and a cyclist) and so am forced from time to time to deal with mechanical malfunction. A particular idea in this book has been very helpful - the idea that if something goes wrong, don't panic - just stop, breathe, and be calm. A solution is unlikely to present itself while you're freaking out. (obviously this doesn't just apply to bikes and cars). RIP.
posted by misterbee at 8:31 PM on April 24, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by misterbee at 8:31 PM on April 24, 2017 [3 favorites]
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posted by Fibognocchi at 8:35 PM on April 24, 2017
posted by Fibognocchi at 8:35 PM on April 24, 2017
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posted by brambleboy at 8:41 PM on April 24, 2017
posted by brambleboy at 8:41 PM on April 24, 2017
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posted by not_the_water at 8:41 PM on April 24, 2017
posted by not_the_water at 8:41 PM on April 24, 2017
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ZAMM had a special resonance with me when I read it, because I had coincidentally taken a similar motorcycle trip a few years before I read it. I couldn't quite bring myself to agree with the absolute nature of Quality in the book. I think the writings of W.E. Deming on quality in a manufacturing context are a nice compliment. They seem a little Zen in their own way.
posted by Maxwell's demon at 8:41 PM on April 24, 2017 [2 favorites]
ZAMM had a special resonance with me when I read it, because I had coincidentally taken a similar motorcycle trip a few years before I read it. I couldn't quite bring myself to agree with the absolute nature of Quality in the book. I think the writings of W.E. Deming on quality in a manufacturing context are a nice compliment. They seem a little Zen in their own way.
posted by Maxwell's demon at 8:41 PM on April 24, 2017 [2 favorites]
I read ZAMM once every ten years or so, and every time, I see it a from different perspective. As a teacher, one of my favorite parts of the book is when he stops grading his students. I mention this to my students sometimes as a possibility, but they break out in hives.
posted by pangolin party at 8:43 PM on April 24, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by pangolin party at 8:43 PM on April 24, 2017 [6 favorites]
It was a thing in its time and I appreciated it...
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posted by jim in austin at 8:45 PM on April 24, 2017 [2 favorites]
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posted by jim in austin at 8:45 PM on April 24, 2017 [2 favorites]
• This book is a part of my adolescent memories of my mother. That and All Things Considered playing as she made dinner.
posted by bz at 9:02 PM on April 24, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by bz at 9:02 PM on April 24, 2017 [3 favorites]
I picked this up in the grocery store when I was in high school, must've been right around the time it was issued in paperback. This book for me, as a teenager in the mid-70s, was absolutely mind blowing. I entered college as a philosophy major because of it. I learned so much from it. It really was, as Pirsig said in the introduction to later editions, a culture bearer. I can understand why its effect wouldn't be as profound today, but to put the book in some kind of context, when I started doing meditation retreats 10 years later, it was viewed as an extremely weird activity that a sane person wouldn't do. Today, mindfulness is all the rage. All this to say that virtually every concept in ZAMM was new to me and not understood by any adults in my world. It changed my life entirely and certainly shaped the way I think about the world.
Vale Mr. Pirsig. And thank you.
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posted by janey47 at 9:07 PM on April 24, 2017 [5 favorites]
Vale Mr. Pirsig. And thank you.
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posted by janey47 at 9:07 PM on April 24, 2017 [5 favorites]
I must have read this book in the late 80's in high school, along with Jonathon Livingston Seagull, the 'Holographic Paradigm' and the 'Dancing Wu Li Masters.' Very nostalgic!
I have a friend who is a Soto Zen monk and minister, and his big complaint with Western takes on Zen is "Why is it always 'Zen and the whatever whatever'?"
He thought 'Zen in the Art of Archery' was a much better book for a multidisciplinary look at Zen.
Of course, Zen isn't a religion, anyway, and is compatible with any other spiritual tradition.
This friend of mine also recommended that, if I truly wanted to learn more about Zen and Buddhism, that I not read any books at all, since they were just a waster of time for a beginner. Learn how to sit and breathe and meditate was the most important thing. Very Japanese approach.
posted by My Dad at 9:26 PM on April 24, 2017 [2 favorites]
I have a friend who is a Soto Zen monk and minister, and his big complaint with Western takes on Zen is "Why is it always 'Zen and the whatever whatever'?"
He thought 'Zen in the Art of Archery' was a much better book for a multidisciplinary look at Zen.
Of course, Zen isn't a religion, anyway, and is compatible with any other spiritual tradition.
This friend of mine also recommended that, if I truly wanted to learn more about Zen and Buddhism, that I not read any books at all, since they were just a waster of time for a beginner. Learn how to sit and breathe and meditate was the most important thing. Very Japanese approach.
posted by My Dad at 9:26 PM on April 24, 2017 [2 favorites]
I must say that as a teenager I found Pirsigs book no end annoying. And I had pithy epithets for his notion of 'quality'.
But he did write a novel that contains an appreciation of engineering. And that's something special.
posted by jouke at 9:38 PM on April 24, 2017 [2 favorites]
But he did write a novel that contains an appreciation of engineering. And that's something special.
posted by jouke at 9:38 PM on April 24, 2017 [2 favorites]
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I am feeling older with every loss.
posted by Ink-stained wretch at 10:33 PM on April 24, 2017 [5 favorites]
I am feeling older with every loss.
posted by Ink-stained wretch at 10:33 PM on April 24, 2017 [5 favorites]
. The book annoyed me too, but godspeed explorer.
posted by vrakatar at 11:11 PM on April 24, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by vrakatar at 11:11 PM on April 24, 2017 [1 favorite]
Decades after reading that book, the only two memories of it that stick in my mind:
- A totally-familiar-to-me DIY concept epitomized by using (gasp!) a random beer can shim to fix a loose handlebar instead of resorting to the costly "official" dealership solution;
- The author experiencing a breakdown during which he sat in a puddle of his own piss and shit, a notion utterly foreign to me.
Not sure what the lesson is there, but take from it what you will.
posted by Greg_Ace at 11:31 PM on April 24, 2017 [1 favorite]
- A totally-familiar-to-me DIY concept epitomized by using (gasp!) a random beer can shim to fix a loose handlebar instead of resorting to the costly "official" dealership solution;
- The author experiencing a breakdown during which he sat in a puddle of his own piss and shit, a notion utterly foreign to me.
Not sure what the lesson is there, but take from it what you will.
posted by Greg_Ace at 11:31 PM on April 24, 2017 [1 favorite]
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posted by colin.jaquiery at 11:34 PM on April 24, 2017
posted by colin.jaquiery at 11:34 PM on April 24, 2017
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posted by spinifex23 at 12:06 AM on April 25, 2017
posted by spinifex23 at 12:06 AM on April 25, 2017
Later, Lila: An Inquiry Into Morals showed me how limited Pirsig was; how much he'd run down a blind alley with his attempt to fuse Western philosophy with a Zen sensibility, and ended up throwing arbitrary categories around in the finest tradition of the Enlightenment, and this was a wonderful death-of-a-guru moment for me. His deep honesty about the frailty of his own project is forever imprinted on me.
I couldn't disagree with this more strongly - to my mind ZAMM was a decent first bash and Lila was the real deal. It sets out a simple but not simplistic philosophy that works to explain the world with a minimum of moving parts and loose threads. And it coined the magnificent word 'philosophology'.
Shantih, Mr Pirsig, you made a lot of lives better.
posted by Sebmojo at 1:38 AM on April 25, 2017 [3 favorites]
I couldn't disagree with this more strongly - to my mind ZAMM was a decent first bash and Lila was the real deal. It sets out a simple but not simplistic philosophy that works to explain the world with a minimum of moving parts and loose threads. And it coined the magnificent word 'philosophology'.
Shantih, Mr Pirsig, you made a lot of lives better.
posted by Sebmojo at 1:38 AM on April 25, 2017 [3 favorites]
@karst that is a lovely story with an unexpected joyful-startle-of-tears ending.
I read my mother's beaten-up copy of ZAMM as a teen on the bus and felt I was so grown-up and smart and ready to take on the world. Later I studied philosophy, because it seemed the obvious choice, and I am so glad that I did. I have only read it twice more I think in the years between, but RMP's willingness to explore deeply stays with me.
posted by michaelhoney at 1:44 AM on April 25, 2017 [1 favorite]
I read my mother's beaten-up copy of ZAMM as a teen on the bus and felt I was so grown-up and smart and ready to take on the world. Later I studied philosophy, because it seemed the obvious choice, and I am so glad that I did. I have only read it twice more I think in the years between, but RMP's willingness to explore deeply stays with me.
posted by michaelhoney at 1:44 AM on April 25, 2017 [1 favorite]
💮🔧🏍️
posted by radwolf76 at 3:24 AM on April 25, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by radwolf76 at 3:24 AM on April 25, 2017 [6 favorites]
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posted by young_simba at 4:05 AM on April 25, 2017
posted by young_simba at 4:05 AM on April 25, 2017
Some classmates smoked pot. I read Pirsig's book. But not too much at a time or I'd have trouble talking in complete sentences for a while. It sold with several different background colors on the cover to choose from (my first copy: purple. second: green)
Zen... - and HST's Fear and Loathing - were watershed moments growing up. Couldn't quote a passage if my life depended on it but within two years I had crossed the US three times likely with a dog-eared copy in my back pocket. Once by hitchhiking (or, put more accurately: walking)
RIP
posted by hal9k at 4:06 AM on April 25, 2017 [4 favorites]
Zen... - and HST's Fear and Loathing - were watershed moments growing up. Couldn't quote a passage if my life depended on it but within two years I had crossed the US three times likely with a dog-eared copy in my back pocket. Once by hitchhiking (or, put more accurately: walking)
RIP
posted by hal9k at 4:06 AM on April 25, 2017 [4 favorites]
“The real cycle you're working on is a cycle called yourself.”
With nostalgic gratitude to my boyfriend at the time - upon whose shelf I found this book when I was 22 - for putting up with me when I became mute, solitary and simply no good company because I was totally lost in it for days.
This line became a kinda motto for me these last 20+ years.
posted by honey-barbara at 5:02 AM on April 25, 2017 [5 favorites]
With nostalgic gratitude to my boyfriend at the time - upon whose shelf I found this book when I was 22 - for putting up with me when I became mute, solitary and simply no good company because I was totally lost in it for days.
This line became a kinda motto for me these last 20+ years.
posted by honey-barbara at 5:02 AM on April 25, 2017 [5 favorites]
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posted by lalochezia at 5:30 AM on April 25, 2017
posted by lalochezia at 5:30 AM on April 25, 2017
One of my "self discovery" books, probably as a result of it being recommended to me. Also I was riding motorcycles at the time and related to the allegory. After finishing it I appreciated the conclusion (quality) but felt the need to argue with it later, thinking it was too simplistic.
It was also at the time I was reading other works such as Autobiography of a Yogi and The Tao of Physics, so my beliefs were in a malleable state.
Thanks, Mr P, for discovering another route to try out.
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posted by arzakh at 5:31 AM on April 25, 2017
It was also at the time I was reading other works such as Autobiography of a Yogi and The Tao of Physics, so my beliefs were in a malleable state.
Thanks, Mr P, for discovering another route to try out.
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posted by arzakh at 5:31 AM on April 25, 2017
I picked this up around the time Godel, Escher, Bach was still in my head so I had no patience for the hang up about "quality." I just wanted to shake the narrator by the shoulders and tell him that rigid systems and strict definitions contain their own contradictions, dude!
Still though, I totally grokked the radical DIY approach, probably to my detriment.
posted by whuppy at 6:02 AM on April 25, 2017 [1 favorite]
Still though, I totally grokked the radical DIY approach, probably to my detriment.
posted by whuppy at 6:02 AM on April 25, 2017 [1 favorite]
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posted by Obscure Reference at 6:22 AM on April 25, 2017
posted by Obscure Reference at 6:22 AM on April 25, 2017
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posted by SonInLawOfSam at 6:44 AM on April 25, 2017
posted by SonInLawOfSam at 6:44 AM on April 25, 2017
I'm really glad to see the appreciation expressed in this thread. I was suffering through the hell of grad school (in linguistics) and during one of our (typically awkward and unhelpful) weekly meetings my adviser suggested I read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. I'd vaguely heard of it and was surprised, because it didn't seem like his kind of thing, but since he was basically God to me at the time (if an awkward and unhelpful deity), I bought a copy and devoured it. Next time I saw him I started babbling about how wonderful it was, how it had changed my thinking etc. etc., and when I paused for breath he said bemusedly that he'd just recommended it for the vivid description of western Montana (where he was from). We looked at each other across a vast gulf of vague affection and utter lack of mutual comprehension. RIP, Pirsig, and RIP, Warren—I'm afraid recommending that book did me more good than all the Indo-Europeanist lore you did your best to impart.
posted by languagehat at 6:57 AM on April 25, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by languagehat at 6:57 AM on April 25, 2017 [18 favorites]
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Picked it up at age 13, a dog-eared copy at a church book sale, discarded by one of the many ex-sorta-hippies-turned-churchies in our evangelical circle. Read it. Didn't understand it. Later became an engineer and tinkerer. Working on weird bikes and cheap electronics, the concept of “stuckness” (and the recognition, avoidance of and acceptance of the concept) has been very important to me. Quality? Know it when I see it. I have more than once made handlebar shims from drinks cans. When facing a complex repair, I have been known to mutter “Assembly of Japanese bicycle requires great peace of mind” to myself. I pretend that it helps.
Never got into motorbikes. Maybe I'll get an engine when the knees finally give out. But thank you Phaedrus: it's been a trip.
posted by scruss at 6:58 AM on April 25, 2017 [1 favorite]
Picked it up at age 13, a dog-eared copy at a church book sale, discarded by one of the many ex-sorta-hippies-turned-churchies in our evangelical circle. Read it. Didn't understand it. Later became an engineer and tinkerer. Working on weird bikes and cheap electronics, the concept of “stuckness” (and the recognition, avoidance of and acceptance of the concept) has been very important to me. Quality? Know it when I see it. I have more than once made handlebar shims from drinks cans. When facing a complex repair, I have been known to mutter “Assembly of Japanese bicycle requires great peace of mind” to myself. I pretend that it helps.
Never got into motorbikes. Maybe I'll get an engine when the knees finally give out. But thank you Phaedrus: it's been a trip.
posted by scruss at 6:58 AM on April 25, 2017 [1 favorite]
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posted by So You're Saying These Are Pants? at 7:05 AM on April 25, 2017
posted by So You're Saying These Are Pants? at 7:05 AM on April 25, 2017
The most memorable part of the book, for me, was Phaedrus rewriting the dismissive
Quality is just what you like.as the empowering
Quality is what you like.posted by So You're Saying These Are Pants? at 7:08 AM on April 25, 2017 [6 favorites]
I read ZAMM when I started riding motorcycles at 20. It served me very well. It is funny that the next post is about the book 'How to Keep your VW Alive' because that is the other tome I used to learn motorcycles. I put Zen down when it stopped being about motorcycles. There is riding to do, I'm sure Robert would have understood.
posted by bdc34 at 7:15 AM on April 25, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by bdc34 at 7:15 AM on April 25, 2017 [1 favorite]
.
Zen was hugely influential for me at a certain age, when I was immersed in a western classics education. Perhaps because it romanticized (in my mind) the exploration of that 'dark continent' space between ideas and reality, a journey I then saw myself as being embarked on. I reread it every year for a while. But later on my worldview shifted and matured (of necessity), and I was able to let go of the intellectual adventurism and see the story from some distance - the father and son, and the struggle we all have on some level making sense of our world, our perceptions, our values. In the end, it is for me, a tender and heartfelt book. It is, flaws included, a teaching book. And as with all the teachers who impacted me the most deeply, part of the process was for me was to move on, although they always holds a special place within me.
posted by buffalo at 7:16 AM on April 25, 2017 [3 favorites]
Zen was hugely influential for me at a certain age, when I was immersed in a western classics education. Perhaps because it romanticized (in my mind) the exploration of that 'dark continent' space between ideas and reality, a journey I then saw myself as being embarked on. I reread it every year for a while. But later on my worldview shifted and matured (of necessity), and I was able to let go of the intellectual adventurism and see the story from some distance - the father and son, and the struggle we all have on some level making sense of our world, our perceptions, our values. In the end, it is for me, a tender and heartfelt book. It is, flaws included, a teaching book. And as with all the teachers who impacted me the most deeply, part of the process was for me was to move on, although they always holds a special place within me.
posted by buffalo at 7:16 AM on April 25, 2017 [3 favorites]
Count me as another one who really felt connected to ZAMM in my teens and twenties. I remember the shock of reading the afterword, and learning that Chris had died.
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posted by sevenyearlurk at 7:19 AM on April 25, 2017
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posted by sevenyearlurk at 7:19 AM on April 25, 2017
Picked it up from my mom's bookcase sometime in high-school....didn't finish it until the year after I graduated from university. That thing about being interested in what you're doing has always stuck with me.
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posted by Spumante at 7:40 AM on April 25, 2017 [1 favorite]
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posted by Spumante at 7:40 AM on April 25, 2017 [1 favorite]
I never read it myself, for reasons unimportant, but I was definitely adjacent to it for basically my 20s. A lot of people I liked liked it.
Yes, oddly, I've never read the book, despite it being just the kind of thing that appealed to me at a certain point in my life, despite knowing many people who loved it, and despite having encountered it in nearly every used bookstore and thrift store I've ever visited. It is a mystery. Sometimes I wonder how my life might've been different if I had read Zen at, say, 22 or 23.
I did pluck Mark Richardson's Zen & Now: On the Trail of Robert Pirsig and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance out of a thrift bin a few years ago and gave it a spin. Lacking much knowledge of the original, I never finished it, but it might interest others.
posted by octobersurprise at 7:49 AM on April 25, 2017
Yes, oddly, I've never read the book, despite it being just the kind of thing that appealed to me at a certain point in my life, despite knowing many people who loved it, and despite having encountered it in nearly every used bookstore and thrift store I've ever visited. It is a mystery. Sometimes I wonder how my life might've been different if I had read Zen at, say, 22 or 23.
I did pluck Mark Richardson's Zen & Now: On the Trail of Robert Pirsig and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance out of a thrift bin a few years ago and gave it a spin. Lacking much knowledge of the original, I never finished it, but it might interest others.
posted by octobersurprise at 7:49 AM on April 25, 2017
The year after I finished high school I found myself in Kathmandu, Nepal. I felt lost for, well it seemed anyways, like a long time. Alone with my thoughts without too much social distraction I came away with a pile of books bought in a little hippie used book store. Mostly random stuff picked up and dropped as people made their trips through India into Nepal. I read a lot of books during that time but only two stay with me now - Pirsig's Zen... and Aldo Leopold's Sand County Almanac. I can't think of too many books in my life that have changed the way I look at life more then those two. From ZAMM, I really recall the notions of quality and how one looks at a problem.
As an aside, there's a nice CBC Radio programme with interviews with Pirsig here.
posted by Ashwagandha at 8:04 AM on April 25, 2017 [4 favorites]
As an aside, there's a nice CBC Radio programme with interviews with Pirsig here.
posted by Ashwagandha at 8:04 AM on April 25, 2017 [4 favorites]
I am feeling older with every loss.
Welcome to the only game in town.
posted by rocketman at 8:34 AM on April 25, 2017 [2 favorites]
Welcome to the only game in town.
posted by rocketman at 8:34 AM on April 25, 2017 [2 favorites]
In adulthood I've come to truly hate ZAMM, but it's undeniable that it led me to read better books about philosophy, so I'll raise a metric wrench to Pirsig for that, at least.
posted by sonascope at 8:50 AM on April 25, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by sonascope at 8:50 AM on April 25, 2017 [3 favorites]
I eagerly consumed *Zen* in my 20s after having spent my entire life up to that point hearing about it. In the end I completely rejected his concept of Quality and still find it entirely suspect.
But!
I enjoyed the read very much. I disagreed with his conclusions but the story and the writing and everything else made a big impact. I still think of it today and wonder about it and its importance.
I also read *Lila* and while it wasn't as engrossing it also affected me. Maybe because I had already rejected Pirsig's thesis I was better able to just enjoy his story-telling and how he worked through his thoughts on paper.
And the scene in *Lila* with Robert Redford has really stuck with me all these years.
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posted by bfootdav at 9:28 AM on April 25, 2017 [2 favorites]
But!
I enjoyed the read very much. I disagreed with his conclusions but the story and the writing and everything else made a big impact. I still think of it today and wonder about it and its importance.
I also read *Lila* and while it wasn't as engrossing it also affected me. Maybe because I had already rejected Pirsig's thesis I was better able to just enjoy his story-telling and how he worked through his thoughts on paper.
And the scene in *Lila* with Robert Redford has really stuck with me all these years.
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posted by bfootdav at 9:28 AM on April 25, 2017 [2 favorites]
A watershed moment when I read it over 40 years ago. Now? Not so entertaining, nor enlightening. But ZATAOMM did light the first steps of the spiritual paths of discovery I have trod since. Thanks Robert Pirsig and may you rest in peace.
posted by Lynsey at 10:01 AM on April 25, 2017
posted by Lynsey at 10:01 AM on April 25, 2017
.
I read ZAAMM several times as a teenager. It was my first real introduction to philosophy, and the first thing I ever read about mental illness. I remember the fear I felt when Phaedrus came back... I was that deeply invested in the narrative.
Then I went to college and took Intro to Philosophy and the magic just wasn't there. Plato and Aristotle were so dry. Our professor had us summarize their logic. Fair enough. But where was the sense of urgency, the quest to figure things out, to understand the world and humanity's place in it? I realized that came from Pirsig himself. Now that's writing-- the ability to make me care about philosophy, and this narrator and his son. Writing is the magic. RIP, Mr. Pirsig.
posted by tuesdayschild at 10:57 AM on April 25, 2017 [3 favorites]
I read ZAAMM several times as a teenager. It was my first real introduction to philosophy, and the first thing I ever read about mental illness. I remember the fear I felt when Phaedrus came back... I was that deeply invested in the narrative.
Then I went to college and took Intro to Philosophy and the magic just wasn't there. Plato and Aristotle were so dry. Our professor had us summarize their logic. Fair enough. But where was the sense of urgency, the quest to figure things out, to understand the world and humanity's place in it? I realized that came from Pirsig himself. Now that's writing-- the ability to make me care about philosophy, and this narrator and his son. Writing is the magic. RIP, Mr. Pirsig.
posted by tuesdayschild at 10:57 AM on April 25, 2017 [3 favorites]
... I come from both a father and a grandfather who were motorcycle enthusiasts during the 70's (cross-country touring, enduro, off-road) - myself, not so much (I am way too clumsy) - so at least one dog-eared copy of this book was available for most of my childhood - but I never picked it up...
... until a couple years ago, when I was on a cross-Canada road trip and I listened to the audiobook (~15-hours)... simply beautiful, dreamlike and empowering...
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posted by jkaczor at 11:20 AM on April 25, 2017 [1 favorite]
... until a couple years ago, when I was on a cross-Canada road trip and I listened to the audiobook (~15-hours)... simply beautiful, dreamlike and empowering...
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posted by jkaczor at 11:20 AM on April 25, 2017 [1 favorite]
• sad to lose him.
posted by Katjusa Roquette at 11:42 AM on April 25, 2017
posted by Katjusa Roquette at 11:42 AM on April 25, 2017
. This book was critical to essential life changes I needed to make 20 years ago. Thanks Robert.
posted by sydnius at 12:07 PM on April 25, 2017
posted by sydnius at 12:07 PM on April 25, 2017
ZAAMM is clearly an amazing book about philosophy. But I seem to be the only person who ever read it as kind of a horror story about mental illness. It never seemed to end on a good note to me.
Still, completely life-changing. I read it for the second time, rather embarrassingly, on a cross-USA motorcycle trip.
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posted by lumpenprole at 12:13 PM on April 25, 2017 [4 favorites]
Still, completely life-changing. I read it for the second time, rather embarrassingly, on a cross-USA motorcycle trip.
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posted by lumpenprole at 12:13 PM on April 25, 2017 [4 favorites]
I became an English professor because I read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance.
posted by Quaversalis at 12:32 PM on April 25, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Quaversalis at 12:32 PM on April 25, 2017 [2 favorites]
The book ended the 60's for me, on a bittersweet and melancholic note. I envy all you folks who got something positive and life-affirming from it. All I can remember now is a depression and the belief that the only worthwhile Plato dialogue was Symposium.
posted by Chitownfats at 1:24 PM on April 25, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Chitownfats at 1:24 PM on April 25, 2017 [4 favorites]
. and pretty much exactly what sydnius said above - This book got me through many tough times in my life.
posted by diracshard at 2:49 PM on April 25, 2017
posted by diracshard at 2:49 PM on April 25, 2017
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posted by kneecapped at 9:23 PM on April 25, 2017
posted by kneecapped at 9:23 PM on April 25, 2017
I had read ZAAMM in my 20's, and the time it resonated with me most strongly was some years later, while on a motorcycle journey, I arrived at a place that gave me a weird spine-tingling feeling, and just as in the book [and for similar reasons], I realised "He's been here."
posted by HiroProtagonist at 10:10 PM on April 25, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by HiroProtagonist at 10:10 PM on April 25, 2017 [3 favorites]
just as in the book [and for similar reasons], I realised "He's been here."
Who?
posted by thelonius at 2:28 AM on April 26, 2017
Who?
posted by thelonius at 2:28 AM on April 26, 2017
That'd be Phaedrus.
posted by Strange_Robinson at 7:26 AM on April 26, 2017
posted by Strange_Robinson at 7:26 AM on April 26, 2017
thanks - it's been 30 years since I read the thing, and forgot about that stuff
posted by thelonius at 8:57 AM on April 26, 2017
posted by thelonius at 8:57 AM on April 26, 2017
I too loved this book. Whatever you think about Quality and the success of Pirsig's attempt to heal the breach in Western thought, Zen and the Art's critique of rationality and the classical paradigm was powerful. It opened the way to a much deeper avenue of philosophy that ended up, for me, many years later with the Philosophical Investigations.
I loved the motorcycle parts of the book and the stories and ideas about repair and mechanics. I loved the travelling. I had a couple of motorcycles in my twenties and the romance I felt being on my bike on the highway would probably never have happened without Zen. I tore down the engine on one of them (Oh Yamaha RD400! Where are you now?) and it was Pirsig's book that gave me the idea and the confidence to do it.
One of my favourite things: the idea of the gumption trap - the situation and the panic that sucks all the gumption out of you and the need to be organized and to document what you do so that you can recover, but also the strategy that, as Misterbee put it up above "if something goes wrong, don't panic - just stop, breathe, and be calm."
Thanks Robert Pirsig. I owe you.
posted by kaymac at 7:29 PM on April 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
I loved the motorcycle parts of the book and the stories and ideas about repair and mechanics. I loved the travelling. I had a couple of motorcycles in my twenties and the romance I felt being on my bike on the highway would probably never have happened without Zen. I tore down the engine on one of them (Oh Yamaha RD400! Where are you now?) and it was Pirsig's book that gave me the idea and the confidence to do it.
One of my favourite things: the idea of the gumption trap - the situation and the panic that sucks all the gumption out of you and the need to be organized and to document what you do so that you can recover, but also the strategy that, as Misterbee put it up above "if something goes wrong, don't panic - just stop, breathe, and be calm."
Thanks Robert Pirsig. I owe you.
posted by kaymac at 7:29 PM on April 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
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posted by limeonaire at 6:16 PM on April 24, 2017