There are other worlds than these
May 3, 2017 6:53 AM Subscribe
Having never read the series, I'm surprised by how straight-ahead scifi this seems. Is that what the books are like? I assumed they were a bit more mind-bendy.
posted by Think_Long at 7:00 AM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Think_Long at 7:00 AM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
Having never read the series, I'm surprised by how straight-ahead scifi this seems. Is that what the books are like? I assumed they were a bit more mind-bendy.
The gunslinger's world is a post-apocalyptic weird west with science fiction and real world debris around - so kind of like the trailer. It's a lot more action oriented than I remember the first book, which I guess you have to expect.
posted by dinty_moore at 7:04 AM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
The gunslinger's world is a post-apocalyptic weird west with science fiction and real world debris around - so kind of like the trailer. It's a lot more action oriented than I remember the first book, which I guess you have to expect.
posted by dinty_moore at 7:04 AM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
Having never read the series, I'm surprised by how straight-ahead scifi this seems. Is that what the books are like? I assumed they were a bit more mind-bendy.
Uh, no, the books (especially the first) are much less boilerplate. I'm not getting a great feeling from this trailer.
posted by codacorolla at 7:05 AM on May 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
Uh, no, the books (especially the first) are much less boilerplate. I'm not getting a great feeling from this trailer.
posted by codacorolla at 7:05 AM on May 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
Having never read the series, I'm surprised by how straight-ahead scifi this seems. Is that what the books are like? I assumed they were a bit more mind-bendy.
I read the first three as a teenager and then gave up, but my memory is that since I was able to understand what was happening in this trailer, it is utterly unlike the books.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 7:06 AM on May 3, 2017 [16 favorites]
I read the first three as a teenager and then gave up, but my memory is that since I was able to understand what was happening in this trailer, it is utterly unlike the books.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 7:06 AM on May 3, 2017 [16 favorites]
Idris looks great, his guns look great, everything else not quite grabbing me yet. The setting does seem to have become a bit genericised. We'll see.
posted by Artw at 7:11 AM on May 3, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Artw at 7:11 AM on May 3, 2017 [6 favorites]
(Possibly I spoiled myself by catching up on Samurai Jack last night. Now that's a vibrant post apocalyptic landscape with Western overtones.)
posted by Artw at 7:14 AM on May 3, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Artw at 7:14 AM on May 3, 2017 [3 favorites]
Well, the story of this movie is not actually following the events of the books, right? I read that this is supposed to be after the books.
I will admit to a) getting chills when he talked about forgetting the face of his father and b) maybe reflexively sticking up for this movie because of all the people being gross about the casting.
posted by Night_owl at 7:18 AM on May 3, 2017 [7 favorites]
I will admit to a) getting chills when he talked about forgetting the face of his father and b) maybe reflexively sticking up for this movie because of all the people being gross about the casting.
posted by Night_owl at 7:18 AM on May 3, 2017 [7 favorites]
Mad props to the trailer for using the music box (actually, pocket watch) melody that appears in the Sergio Leone classic For A Few Dollars More (SLYT).
posted by Gordion Knott at 7:19 AM on May 3, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Gordion Knott at 7:19 AM on May 3, 2017 [7 favorites]
If something's going to be wrong with it then it's not going to be the casting A+ times a million job there.
posted by Artw at 7:21 AM on May 3, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by Artw at 7:21 AM on May 3, 2017 [14 favorites]
I'm not so sure about this. Idris is fine. Just, I see no Eddie, no Susannah. No BLAINE.
posted by Team of Scientists at 7:24 AM on May 3, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by Team of Scientists at 7:24 AM on May 3, 2017 [9 favorites]
Mad props to the trailer for
You saw the picture on the table in the psychologist's office right?
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:26 AM on May 3, 2017 [5 favorites]
You saw the picture on the table in the psychologist's office right?
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:26 AM on May 3, 2017 [5 favorites]
I am mixed, not so much on casting, but on setting and tone. That said, I mean, I'm guessing they didn't think that modern audiences could stomach a sci-fi in a western setting. That's never been done before right? Right.....
Elba does look great, the guns look great, Jake looks good, The Man in Black looks not awful maybe, the rest leaves me nervous but not actually as nervous as I was in the past months/years.
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:29 AM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
Elba does look great, the guns look great, Jake looks good, The Man in Black looks not awful maybe, the rest leaves me nervous but not actually as nervous as I was in the past months/years.
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:29 AM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
I love the casting of Idris Elba, not so much Matthew McConaughey. The plot is completely unrecognizable - the first of the books (I only read the first three, I think?) was way slower and more contemplative than action-oriented. I remember it had a lonely feeling about it, which I liked. This seems like a Michael Bay film.
posted by grumpybear69 at 7:30 AM on May 3, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by grumpybear69 at 7:30 AM on May 3, 2017 [5 favorites]
Well, the story of this movie is not actually following the events of the books, right? I read that this is supposed to be after the books.
Sort of. [Spoilers rot13ed] Gur obbx frevrf raqf jvgu Ebynaq znxvat vg gb gur Qnex Gbjre, na vagrewrpgvba sebz Fgrcura Xvat fnlvat gung vg jbhyq or cresrpgyl BX vs gur ernqre fgbccrq evtug gurer, naq na rcvybthr va juvpu Ebynaq pyvzof gur gbjre, trgf gb gur gbc... naq svaqf uvzfrys ng gur rknpg fnzr cynpr ur jnf ng gur ortvaavat bs gur obbxf, nyernql sbetrggvat nyy gur riragf gung unq gnxra cynpr va gurz, naq fgnegvat bire... jvgu bar pehpvny qvssrerapr. Juvpu vf nccneragyl cerfrag va gur hcpbzvat zbivr.
I'm not so sure about this. Idris is fine. Just, I see no Eddie, no Susannah. No BLAINE.
AFAIK, this is based mostly on the first book.
posted by Halloween Jack at 7:30 AM on May 3, 2017 [4 favorites]
Sort of. [Spoilers rot13ed] Gur obbx frevrf raqf jvgu Ebynaq znxvat vg gb gur Qnex Gbjre, na vagrewrpgvba sebz Fgrcura Xvat fnlvat gung vg jbhyq or cresrpgyl BX vs gur ernqre fgbccrq evtug gurer, naq na rcvybthr va juvpu Ebynaq pyvzof gur gbjre, trgf gb gur gbc... naq svaqf uvzfrys ng gur rknpg fnzr cynpr ur jnf ng gur ortvaavat bs gur obbxf, nyernql sbetrggvat nyy gur riragf gung unq gnxra cynpr va gurz, naq fgnegvat bire... jvgu bar pehpvny qvssrerapr. Juvpu vf nccneragyl cerfrag va gur hcpbzvat zbivr.
I'm not so sure about this. Idris is fine. Just, I see no Eddie, no Susannah. No BLAINE.
AFAIK, this is based mostly on the first book.
posted by Halloween Jack at 7:30 AM on May 3, 2017 [4 favorites]
I like weird things. The books were really weird and it's the weirdest moments that have lodged themselves in my consciousness forever. This trailer isn't weird. It's just a movie. I suppose I shouldn't be disappointed, or at least i shouldn't be surprised, but I am.
Stephen King is problematic for me in some ways (and there are aspects of The Dark Tower series that are extremely problematic), but I will always believe that he is one of the greatest storytellers of the English language. This series was his heart, a multi-decade thread through his whole career. It's the story he knew that only he could tell.
From the trailer... this script looks like a script that anyone could have written. Just typical Hollywood blockbuster action movie.
Why do they keep doing this? Why do they keep taking stories we loved because they were like nothing else, and then turning them into something that's like everything else?
posted by the turtle's teeth at 7:32 AM on May 3, 2017 [25 favorites]
Stephen King is problematic for me in some ways (and there are aspects of The Dark Tower series that are extremely problematic), but I will always believe that he is one of the greatest storytellers of the English language. This series was his heart, a multi-decade thread through his whole career. It's the story he knew that only he could tell.
From the trailer... this script looks like a script that anyone could have written. Just typical Hollywood blockbuster action movie.
Why do they keep doing this? Why do they keep taking stories we loved because they were like nothing else, and then turning them into something that's like everything else?
posted by the turtle's teeth at 7:32 AM on May 3, 2017 [25 favorites]
Another "spoiler" to go with Halloween Jack's rot13 comment. I'll have to re-watch the trailer to see if it really is there.
posted by jazon at 7:35 AM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by jazon at 7:35 AM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
I had heard over the years that the series was King's masterwork (aside from maybe The Stand?) but this trailer seems so, as said above, boilerplate. I mean, I understand trailers sometimes need to be as generic as possible to cast a wide net, but this just makes it look dull. I'll still give it a shot if the reviews come in positive though.
posted by gwint at 7:37 AM on May 3, 2017
posted by gwint at 7:37 AM on May 3, 2017
The Akiva Goldsman writer's credit has been making me feel not great about the project for a while.
posted by codacorolla at 7:38 AM on May 3, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by codacorolla at 7:38 AM on May 3, 2017 [5 favorites]
I've read the whole series, I've been a lifelong King fan, and I've never thought that the books were very good. They rely on coincidence and unmotivated character action to a maddening degree.
That said, one thing the books had going for them was how unabashedly weird they were: [mild spoilers] a giant robot bear with a satellite dish growing out of his head, a sentient monorail who likes riddles, Stephen King showing up as a character in his own book, etc.
There's nothing weird about this trailer. I see faceless minions of evil and sky lasers. Too bad.
posted by Laura Palmer's Cold Dead Kiss at 7:39 AM on May 3, 2017 [3 favorites]
That said, one thing the books had going for them was how unabashedly weird they were: [mild spoilers] a giant robot bear with a satellite dish growing out of his head, a sentient monorail who likes riddles, Stephen King showing up as a character in his own book, etc.
There's nothing weird about this trailer. I see faceless minions of evil and sky lasers. Too bad.
posted by Laura Palmer's Cold Dead Kiss at 7:39 AM on May 3, 2017 [3 favorites]
I have debated again and again picking up the books but there's just way too much talk online about what a disaster the last couple books became. There are far too many books for me to read to waste reading time on a series that doesn't satisfy. I guess I'll just watch this and hope it sates my curiosity.
posted by Ber at 7:43 AM on May 3, 2017
posted by Ber at 7:43 AM on May 3, 2017
I see all of the above, and I get all y'all, but Idris Elba saying "I do not aim with my hand. He who aims with his hand has forgotten the face of his father."
I mean
That
(And I've never been able to visualize the gunslinger, but thirty seconds of this trailer and it was never anyone but him. After I calm down I'll be with y'all, probably, but I'll go see it in the theater anyway because that casting choice alone deserves recognition.)
posted by seyirci at 7:45 AM on May 3, 2017 [27 favorites]
I mean
That
(And I've never been able to visualize the gunslinger, but thirty seconds of this trailer and it was never anyone but him. After I calm down I'll be with y'all, probably, but I'll go see it in the theater anyway because that casting choice alone deserves recognition.)
posted by seyirci at 7:45 AM on May 3, 2017 [27 favorites]
I am cautiously optimistic. I remember the first teaser for The Matrix, and how utterly uninterested I was, only going to see it because I had nothing else to do that night. Scott McCloud said in his book Reinventing Comics that markedly different commercial properties often have to advertise themselves as being markedly the same to initially attract audiences. I'm hoping this is the case here.
On the other hand... the pocket watch theme callback might actually get my dad to go see this one, and he's seen like one movie every five years ever since Varsity Blues advertised itself as a Jon Voight film and not a JVDB movie.
posted by infinitewindow at 7:45 AM on May 3, 2017 [7 favorites]
On the other hand... the pocket watch theme callback might actually get my dad to go see this one, and he's seen like one movie every five years ever since Varsity Blues advertised itself as a Jon Voight film and not a JVDB movie.
posted by infinitewindow at 7:45 AM on May 3, 2017 [7 favorites]
I had heard over the years that the series was King's masterwork (aside from maybe The Stand?)
There are very, very strong ties to The Stand, as well as most of King's other works of note. The Dark Tower [series] is the Jupiter of his solar system (his words if I recall correctly?).
So... 'masterwork'? Maybe? It's hard to say that something he wrote while he was still in college (Book I) unwinding throughout the (literally) decades and morphing into what it ended as... it's hard to say if that's a 'masterwork' as I know the word, but it's certainly a linchpin to many things found in various books and stories that he's written over the years. I mean, not that anyone really read it because, hell, I was a huge SK fan and didn't read it for years, INSOMNIA would have been practically unintelligible without having read and known more about The Dark Tower books. Books like IT and The Stand and Hearts in Atlantis and The Talisman and ... well, it's complicated.
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:55 AM on May 3, 2017 [8 favorites]
There are very, very strong ties to The Stand, as well as most of King's other works of note. The Dark Tower [series] is the Jupiter of his solar system (his words if I recall correctly?).
So... 'masterwork'? Maybe? It's hard to say that something he wrote while he was still in college (Book I) unwinding throughout the (literally) decades and morphing into what it ended as... it's hard to say if that's a 'masterwork' as I know the word, but it's certainly a linchpin to many things found in various books and stories that he's written over the years. I mean, not that anyone really read it because, hell, I was a huge SK fan and didn't read it for years, INSOMNIA would have been practically unintelligible without having read and known more about The Dark Tower books. Books like IT and The Stand and Hearts in Atlantis and The Talisman and ... well, it's complicated.
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:55 AM on May 3, 2017 [8 favorites]
(I think there's a better, newer, even more impressive version of that link in my previous comment but I couldn't find it, if anyone has it, please do post it to save me from thinking I'm crazy)
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:57 AM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:57 AM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
The whole 'I do not love handguns with my hands, I love handguns with every fiber of my being' speech seemed, I thought, kinda creepy and gun-fetishing. They heard you like guns so they put guns in your guns, etc., etc. I guess if your protagonist is The Gunslinger, what are you gonna do.
Apart from being mildy surprised that Matthew Mcconaughey was in it, my only other thought was that the 'oh look a hole that goes to another world' thing comes off as the laziest possible Young Adult Book Series gimmick at this point. It's nice to visit other worlds and all but there's got to be another way.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 7:59 AM on May 3, 2017
Apart from being mildy surprised that Matthew Mcconaughey was in it, my only other thought was that the 'oh look a hole that goes to another world' thing comes off as the laziest possible Young Adult Book Series gimmick at this point. It's nice to visit other worlds and all but there's got to be another way.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 7:59 AM on May 3, 2017
(I think there's a better, newer, even more impressive version of that link in my previous comment but I couldn't find it, if anyone has it, please do post it to save me from thinking I'm crazy)
There's a better version out there?! Dang.
posted by XtinaS at 8:01 AM on May 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
There's a better version out there?! Dang.
posted by XtinaS at 8:01 AM on May 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
The whole 'I do not love handguns with my hands, I love handguns with every fiber of my being' speech seemed, I thought, kinda creepy and gun-fetishing. They heard you like guns so they put guns in your guns, etc., etc. I guess if your protagonist is The Gunslinger, what are you gonna do.
I mean, if you can't come to terms with the fact that the guy is a modern interpretation of a (flawed) knight with a sword, or if you have an ideological problem with swords/guns in media in the first place then the series probably isn't for you, but I know I for one don't want to turn this discussion into a proxy gun control debate. Not one bit.
my only other thought was that the 'oh look a hole that goes to another world' thing comes off as the laziest possible Young Adult Book Series gimmick at this point. It's nice to visit other worlds and all but there's got to be another way.
In the books themselves there's lots of other ways to visit said other worlds. It's not at all as boilerplate as this movie [trailer] is making it out to be. We're going to have to deal with that as best we can, fans and new-to-the-material folks alike.
On Preview:
There's a better version out there?! Dang.
Yea, the one I'm thinking of (and maybe I'm mistaking it for this one) made you feel almost concerned for the mental well being of the person who put it together.
posted by RolandOfEld at 8:04 AM on May 3, 2017 [3 favorites]
I mean, if you can't come to terms with the fact that the guy is a modern interpretation of a (flawed) knight with a sword, or if you have an ideological problem with swords/guns in media in the first place then the series probably isn't for you, but I know I for one don't want to turn this discussion into a proxy gun control debate. Not one bit.
my only other thought was that the 'oh look a hole that goes to another world' thing comes off as the laziest possible Young Adult Book Series gimmick at this point. It's nice to visit other worlds and all but there's got to be another way.
In the books themselves there's lots of other ways to visit said other worlds. It's not at all as boilerplate as this movie [trailer] is making it out to be. We're going to have to deal with that as best we can, fans and new-to-the-material folks alike.
On Preview:
There's a better version out there?! Dang.
Yea, the one I'm thinking of (and maybe I'm mistaking it for this one) made you feel almost concerned for the mental well being of the person who put it together.
posted by RolandOfEld at 8:04 AM on May 3, 2017 [3 favorites]
Elba and McConaughey had a cute back and forth on twitter with the teaser trailers yesterday by the way.
posted by RolandOfEld at 8:09 AM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by RolandOfEld at 8:09 AM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
And the poster that came out a few weeks ago looked damn good actually, better than many movie posters these days.
posted by RolandOfEld at 8:10 AM on May 3, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by RolandOfEld at 8:10 AM on May 3, 2017 [8 favorites]
Sing or Swim, the novels are ambivalent at best about weapons and those who wield them.
posted by infinitewindow at 8:11 AM on May 3, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by infinitewindow at 8:11 AM on May 3, 2017 [10 favorites]
I love Idris Elba as Roland. I do not love McConaughey as Walter, too pretty.
AFAIK, this is based mostly on the first book.
As far as I can tell from the trailer, this appears to be mostly based on Lord of the Rings and, idk, Stargate? The first book was a bizarre tale of a barely human gunslinger slaughtering his way across a desolate land populated by madmen and weedeaters, decaying towns and collapsing railways. Where was the guardian between worlds? The way station? What was with the orcs running around?
They did a great job with Roland, capturing much of the character. The world, to me, is unrecognizable as coming from the books.
posted by Existential Dread at 8:13 AM on May 3, 2017 [5 favorites]
AFAIK, this is based mostly on the first book.
As far as I can tell from the trailer, this appears to be mostly based on Lord of the Rings and, idk, Stargate? The first book was a bizarre tale of a barely human gunslinger slaughtering his way across a desolate land populated by madmen and weedeaters, decaying towns and collapsing railways. Where was the guardian between worlds? The way station? What was with the orcs running around?
They did a great job with Roland, capturing much of the character. The world, to me, is unrecognizable as coming from the books.
posted by Existential Dread at 8:13 AM on May 3, 2017 [5 favorites]
I found the crazy flowchart. It does indeed put the other one to shame, well, insofar as a flowchart/diagram can shame another of it's kind.
Article and the actual image.
posted by RolandOfEld at 8:13 AM on May 3, 2017 [15 favorites]
Article and the actual image.
posted by RolandOfEld at 8:13 AM on May 3, 2017 [15 favorites]
The world, to me, is unrecognizable as coming from the books.
One of the teaser trailers had, I think, Jericho Hill. That was something at least. But yea, I feel ya.
posted by RolandOfEld at 8:15 AM on May 3, 2017
One of the teaser trailers had, I think, Jericho Hill. That was something at least. But yea, I feel ya.
posted by RolandOfEld at 8:15 AM on May 3, 2017
I probably ought to take a look at why the 'fans' don't like the last couple of books. It's a puzzle to me.
On second thought, fan sites are horrid to go to anymore. Maybe someone here can save me the pain?
posted by Strange_Robinson at 8:15 AM on May 3, 2017
On second thought, fan sites are horrid to go to anymore. Maybe someone here can save me the pain?
posted by Strange_Robinson at 8:15 AM on May 3, 2017
As an aside, the comics published out there were pretty good. They even got Jae Lee to illustrate some of them.
posted by Strange_Robinson at 8:16 AM on May 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Strange_Robinson at 8:16 AM on May 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
What was with the orcs running around?
posted by Existential Dread
Weren't there mutants in the train tunnel at the end of the first book? They chased Roland and Jake in to the "Go, then. There are other worlds than these." scene. Unless I'm remembering it wrong.
Life for you and your crops, RolandOfEld.
posted by workerant at 8:22 AM on May 3, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Existential Dread
Weren't there mutants in the train tunnel at the end of the first book? They chased Roland and Jake in to the "Go, then. There are other worlds than these." scene. Unless I'm remembering it wrong.
Life for you and your crops, RolandOfEld.
posted by workerant at 8:22 AM on May 3, 2017 [4 favorites]
I really enjoyed the first book in the series. The second was good enough, but I remember losing interest by book 3 and never made it past that point.
That seems to be a fairly commonly cited stopping point for a lot of people. Do the books get more interesting from 4 and on? I certainly want to reread The Gunslinger, but should I try again with the entire series?
posted by Twain Device at 8:22 AM on May 3, 2017
That seems to be a fairly commonly cited stopping point for a lot of people. Do the books get more interesting from 4 and on? I certainly want to reread The Gunslinger, but should I try again with the entire series?
posted by Twain Device at 8:22 AM on May 3, 2017
ditto. The books were raw, and rough at times, and profoundly weird - if this film gets even close to the glorious absurdity of those novels it'll be worth the ticket price
posted by zenwerewolf at 8:23 AM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by zenwerewolf at 8:23 AM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
I probably ought to take a look at why the 'fans' don't like like the last couple of books. It's a puzzle to me.
On second thought, fan sites are horrid to go to anymore. Maybe someone here can save me the pain?
Wolves of the Calla is where it jumped the shark for me. The description of Thunderclap in the earlier books gave me chills, "...where the clocks run backwards and the graves vomit out their dead." Wolves of the Calla instead gave us this and this.
posted by Existential Dread at 8:24 AM on May 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
On second thought, fan sites are horrid to go to anymore. Maybe someone here can save me the pain?
Wolves of the Calla is where it jumped the shark for me. The description of Thunderclap in the earlier books gave me chills, "...where the clocks run backwards and the graves vomit out their dead." Wolves of the Calla instead gave us this and this.
posted by Existential Dread at 8:24 AM on May 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
I probably ought to take a look at why the 'fans' don't like like the last couple of books. It's a puzzle to me.
Slight spoilers maybe follow, but not really.
Can't speak to 'fans' but can speak personally at least. By the latter books, I'm going to assume you mean the books after Book III because that was a long time (in real world time I mean) between books. Eight or ten years? I forget, but I rode that train for a long time... waiting. Plus he did clean up personally and get off the hard drugs and booze between III and IV right? His entire tone did shift significantly at that point, as I've harped on here before, which I won't do again just now. Anyway, in chronological order,
Book IV: Didn't progress the main plot much/at all but an amazing story all the same. One of my favorites.
Book V: Amazing plot and really enjoyed the action and developments. Nothing bad about it at all.
Book VI: Seemed to drag about and just be overly wordy and verbose. Not a favorite at all.
Book VII: The end. How much do fans like things to end? I hated to see it end but was also very much slathering for to see the ending that we all know by heart by now.
Book that came out after VII but falls between IV and V: Tried to be book IV and did an ok job but didn't really give us much meat on Roland and Co, which is what I wanted, didn't you?
So, I dunno if that helps, but it does explain a bit of why the first three are more of a favorite than some of the last four.
On Preview again:
As an aside, the comics published out there were pretty good. They even got Jae Lee to illustrate some of them.
I'd say the comics were damn good. I have some signed by Richard Isanove and the art work and plotlines are truly impressive.
Last preview reply:
Weren't there mutants in the train tunnel at the end of the first book?
I didn't take those folks in the trailer as slow mutants. I figured they were Hollywood rendentions of can-toi or taheen.
Long days, workerant.
posted by RolandOfEld at 8:24 AM on May 3, 2017 [6 favorites]
Slight spoilers maybe follow, but not really.
Can't speak to 'fans' but can speak personally at least. By the latter books, I'm going to assume you mean the books after Book III because that was a long time (in real world time I mean) between books. Eight or ten years? I forget, but I rode that train for a long time... waiting. Plus he did clean up personally and get off the hard drugs and booze between III and IV right? His entire tone did shift significantly at that point, as I've harped on here before, which I won't do again just now. Anyway, in chronological order,
Book IV: Didn't progress the main plot much/at all but an amazing story all the same. One of my favorites.
Book V: Amazing plot and really enjoyed the action and developments. Nothing bad about it at all.
Book VI: Seemed to drag about and just be overly wordy and verbose. Not a favorite at all.
Book VII: The end. How much do fans like things to end? I hated to see it end but was also very much slathering for to see the ending that we all know by heart by now.
Book that came out after VII but falls between IV and V: Tried to be book IV and did an ok job but didn't really give us much meat on Roland and Co, which is what I wanted, didn't you?
So, I dunno if that helps, but it does explain a bit of why the first three are more of a favorite than some of the last four.
On Preview again:
As an aside, the comics published out there were pretty good. They even got Jae Lee to illustrate some of them.
I'd say the comics were damn good. I have some signed by Richard Isanove and the art work and plotlines are truly impressive.
Last preview reply:
Weren't there mutants in the train tunnel at the end of the first book?
I didn't take those folks in the trailer as slow mutants. I figured they were Hollywood rendentions of can-toi or taheen.
Long days, workerant.
posted by RolandOfEld at 8:24 AM on May 3, 2017 [6 favorites]
I'm... not happy about this. The casting is fine, Elba will be great, but I smell David Lynch's Dune.
And what I mean by that is that 80s Dune was a visual spectacle but it was trying to tell an intricate, detail-oriented story in a two-to-three-hour window. It was a testament to the principle of "show, don't tell" and what happens when you don't follow it. Instead it was exposition city and people who loved the book thought "ah, this is That scene, and That scene, and That scene" because they recognized the basic structure, but everyone else was a bit lost and didn't grasp the worldbuilding that Herbert had actually written.
So they are either going to stretch this into The Dark Tower Episode 8 down the road ala Harry Potter or they're going to barely scratch the surface of Roland's world(s). Neither is all that promising.
I probably ought to take a look at why the 'fans' don't like like the last couple of books. It's a puzzle to me.
On second thought, fan sites are horrid to go to anymore. Maybe someone here can save me the pain?
The fourth one, Wizard and Glass, was perfectly fine. The fifth one was where Stephen King popped up as a character in his own books, and the overall tone of Weird started shifting into Really Really Weird and the meta-writing started increasing and it kind of lost me around there. But that's just my take.
posted by delfin at 8:24 AM on May 3, 2017 [7 favorites]
And what I mean by that is that 80s Dune was a visual spectacle but it was trying to tell an intricate, detail-oriented story in a two-to-three-hour window. It was a testament to the principle of "show, don't tell" and what happens when you don't follow it. Instead it was exposition city and people who loved the book thought "ah, this is That scene, and That scene, and That scene" because they recognized the basic structure, but everyone else was a bit lost and didn't grasp the worldbuilding that Herbert had actually written.
So they are either going to stretch this into The Dark Tower Episode 8 down the road ala Harry Potter or they're going to barely scratch the surface of Roland's world(s). Neither is all that promising.
I probably ought to take a look at why the 'fans' don't like like the last couple of books. It's a puzzle to me.
On second thought, fan sites are horrid to go to anymore. Maybe someone here can save me the pain?
The fourth one, Wizard and Glass, was perfectly fine. The fifth one was where Stephen King popped up as a character in his own books, and the overall tone of Weird started shifting into Really Really Weird and the meta-writing started increasing and it kind of lost me around there. But that's just my take.
posted by delfin at 8:24 AM on May 3, 2017 [7 favorites]
Strange_Robinson, I can tell you that I thought the last three novels were just too meta in places--enough to make the party a little awkward. The world building and the way many earlier story threads came back (I'm looking at you, Zvn and Zbeqerq, and especially the ROT13 info above) was very, very pleasing to me.
posted by infinitewindow at 8:25 AM on May 3, 2017
posted by infinitewindow at 8:25 AM on May 3, 2017
Different but I am still super looking forward to it. (Was that a photo of the Overlook Hotel on the psychologists desk?)
posted by Captain_Science at 8:25 AM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Captain_Science at 8:25 AM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
I never could get into the books, maybe because I tried reading them too early -- my love for Stephen King dominated my reading choices from, like, 6th to 8th grade, and this series just didn't work for me then. And there are so many books to read in the world that I've just never gone back.
But apparently if you put Idris Elba in anything, I will pay to see it, so here we are. Yes, please. Clear my schedule for early August, and in the meantime I'll work really hard on not audibly going "buhhhhh" whenever I see his beautiful face.
posted by palomar at 8:25 AM on May 3, 2017
But apparently if you put Idris Elba in anything, I will pay to see it, so here we are. Yes, please. Clear my schedule for early August, and in the meantime I'll work really hard on not audibly going "buhhhhh" whenever I see his beautiful face.
posted by palomar at 8:25 AM on May 3, 2017
Was that a photo of the Overlook Hotel on the psychologists desk?
We have a BINGO.
posted by RolandOfEld at 8:26 AM on May 3, 2017 [3 favorites]
We have a BINGO.
posted by RolandOfEld at 8:26 AM on May 3, 2017 [3 favorites]
I remember losing interest by book 3 and never made it past that point.
Yeah, it began to feel like an obligation. "I'm a dedicated Stephen King fan, and I've read everything he's written - even The Tommyknockers! - so I really should read this series that he's been working on throughout his career, because it is Important."
Nobody likes an obligatory read.
posted by grumpybear69 at 8:28 AM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
Yeah, it began to feel like an obligation. "I'm a dedicated Stephen King fan, and I've read everything he's written - even The Tommyknockers! - so I really should read this series that he's been working on throughout his career, because it is Important."
Nobody likes an obligatory read.
posted by grumpybear69 at 8:28 AM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
I will say, I loved Wizard and Glass (book 4) and think that book was fantastic. I agree, once the meta-writing and the meta-universe really got going, a lot of the magic in the series was lost for me.
posted by Existential Dread at 8:31 AM on May 3, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Existential Dread at 8:31 AM on May 3, 2017 [3 favorites]
The later books began to feel very self-indulgent and self-mythologizing as King began to write himself into the story, and as like, a key figure that the very fate of all the universes hinges upon, which like, come on. And there were a couple resolutions that were just straight up, no-apologies deus ex machina as King-the-author intervened in the story itself to aid King-the-character.
posted by the turtle's teeth at 8:41 AM on May 3, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by the turtle's teeth at 8:41 AM on May 3, 2017 [6 favorites]
This trailer is really by the numbers. But I have to say that I feel a little encouraged by the fact that it tells us nothing, apart from the fact that Roland is a badass gunslinger, Matthew McConaughey is the villain, there's a western/sci-fi thing going on, there's a dark tower, and there is another world for Jack to go to.
Apart from being mildy surprised that Matthew Mcconaughey was in it, my only other thought was that the 'oh look a hole that goes to another world' thing comes off as the laziest possible Young Adult Book Series gimmick at this point. It's nice to visit other worlds and all but there's got to be another way.
I'll put on my war hat briefly and defend this gimmick for the books at least.
1. In the books, at least, Roland's world is long established before we ever see that you can walk between worlds. You don't even see the doors until book 2.
2. There's nothing particularly pleasant or magical about going from New York to Roland's world. There's not much of a Harry Potter vibe here.
3. The portals themselves are always ominous, and are the site of more than a few bloody, desperate encounters.
posted by billjings at 8:41 AM on May 3, 2017 [4 favorites]
Apart from being mildy surprised that Matthew Mcconaughey was in it, my only other thought was that the 'oh look a hole that goes to another world' thing comes off as the laziest possible Young Adult Book Series gimmick at this point. It's nice to visit other worlds and all but there's got to be another way.
I'll put on my war hat briefly and defend this gimmick for the books at least.
1. In the books, at least, Roland's world is long established before we ever see that you can walk between worlds. You don't even see the doors until book 2.
2. There's nothing particularly pleasant or magical about going from New York to Roland's world. There's not much of a Harry Potter vibe here.
3. The portals themselves are always ominous, and are the site of more than a few bloody, desperate encounters.
posted by billjings at 8:41 AM on May 3, 2017 [4 favorites]
The trailer looks stylish as all hell, but I'm still sad that they're starting with Book 2 and skipping the Man With No Name-meets-Fallout-meets-low-fantasy fever dream that is The Gunslinger.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:02 AM on May 3, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:02 AM on May 3, 2017 [9 favorites]
Oh wow, I had no idea a movie was due. I'm reading these for the first time at the moment. About to finish book 4? 5? The retrospective one. Current me is a bit irked by King's writing, but 20-year-ago me would have been fine with it. I'll finish them - the story quality trumps the writing quality for me. I'll watch this.
posted by quinndexter at 9:06 AM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by quinndexter at 9:06 AM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
Oh man. I will literally watch anything with Idris Elba in it but, as someone who didn't even know this book series existed, this movie looks bad.
Also the belt filled with 6 shooter reloads is hilarious. I get the Western Gunslinger motif must be maintained but still if you need that many bullets get an automatic pistol.
posted by dis_integration at 9:07 AM on May 3, 2017
Also the belt filled with 6 shooter reloads is hilarious. I get the Western Gunslinger motif must be maintained but still if you need that many bullets get an automatic pistol.
posted by dis_integration at 9:07 AM on May 3, 2017
the story quality trumps the writing quality for me
I hear you. SK has, by his own admission, a near terminal case of verbal diarrhea. The DT books are no exception.
posted by RolandOfEld at 9:07 AM on May 3, 2017
I hear you. SK has, by his own admission, a near terminal case of verbal diarrhea. The DT books are no exception.
posted by RolandOfEld at 9:07 AM on May 3, 2017
I'm really, really hoping they're pulling a Fury Road and cutting the trailers to fool people into thinking this is a Generic Scifi Movie. Because otherwise, what a waste. The tone of this is completely off. And the casting (apart from Roland). Like, at an "everyone connected to this doesn't seem to understand the source material" level of bad. I do not trust this group of people to give us a homicidal 800-year old talking monorail, is what I'm saying.
posted by Dormant Gorilla at 9:10 AM on May 3, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Dormant Gorilla at 9:10 AM on May 3, 2017 [7 favorites]
I get the Western Gunslinger motif must be maintained but still if you need that many bullets get an automatic pistol.
The latter indicates the former to be untrue. It's like telling a samurai to just get a spear, a caveman to get a bow and arrow, Romeo and Juliet to elope, or the like.
Also the books explain why his revolvers are unique, and the process he went through to earn/keep them. The comic book lore confirms a bit more. Very enjoyable world building if you ask me.
posted by RolandOfEld at 9:11 AM on May 3, 2017 [7 favorites]
The latter indicates the former to be untrue. It's like telling a samurai to just get a spear, a caveman to get a bow and arrow, Romeo and Juliet to elope, or the like.
Also the books explain why his revolvers are unique, and the process he went through to earn/keep them. The comic book lore confirms a bit more. Very enjoyable world building if you ask me.
posted by RolandOfEld at 9:11 AM on May 3, 2017 [7 favorites]
Also the books explain why his revolvers are unique, and the process he went through to earn/keep them. The comic book lore confirms a bit more. Very enjoyable world building if you ask me.
Oh I'm sure there's a whole explanation for it, one that works in book form. But none of that prevents my "how did this get made" style giggle upon seeing someone weighed down with a bulbous tumor-belt of bullets. As a sight gag, it works better as "parody of sci-fi westerns" than as "badass gunslinger paraphernalia".
posted by dis_integration at 9:17 AM on May 3, 2017
Oh I'm sure there's a whole explanation for it, one that works in book form. But none of that prevents my "how did this get made" style giggle upon seeing someone weighed down with a bulbous tumor-belt of bullets. As a sight gag, it works better as "parody of sci-fi westerns" than as "badass gunslinger paraphernalia".
posted by dis_integration at 9:17 AM on May 3, 2017
Yea, to be fair in the books he doesn't use that style of reloading at all, no half-moon revolver clips appear in the books, it's all his hands doing their [very well trained] thing.
So, I hear you. But the idea that he should just get a 1911 or Uzi (which he is not above using in a pinch) isn't tenable either for a lot of well thought out, within sci-fi fantasy land of course, reasons.
posted by RolandOfEld at 9:21 AM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
So, I hear you. But the idea that he should just get a 1911 or Uzi (which he is not above using in a pinch) isn't tenable either for a lot of well thought out, within sci-fi fantasy land of course, reasons.
posted by RolandOfEld at 9:21 AM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
Metafilter: I do not trust this group of people to give us a homicidal 800-year old talking monorail, is what I'm saying.
posted by RolandOfEld at 9:25 AM on May 3, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by RolandOfEld at 9:25 AM on May 3, 2017 [11 favorites]
We do not talk of Oy around these parts. Always gets too dusty.
posted by RolandOfEld at 9:29 AM on May 3, 2017 [21 favorites]
posted by RolandOfEld at 9:29 AM on May 3, 2017 [21 favorites]
Ah, here's another spoiler to confirm the previous ones. It's an interesting idea and in some ways it makes a lot of sense in terms of trying to adapt a huge, sprawling story like this one to the screen. (Are there more films planned or are they really trying to cram a seven novel epic into this one film? I always thought the Ron Howard "Combined movie and miniseries" thing that never happened would have been a neat approach.)
The most memorable part of the books for me was how well King evoked the loneliness and sense of loss of Roland's world; a strange future and/or parallel version of our own where some strange technologies have evolved, followed by some unknown apocalyptic event, followed by a more stable, (albeit more primitive and feudal) civilization, which is now breaking up as time and the world itself winds down. (I agree with previous comments naming Book IV, 'Wizard and Glass' as a particular favorite; it's really intriguing world-building by way of telling Roland's backstory. We get a glimpse of Midworld in his youth, before things have fallen apart completely.)
I'm not getting much of that weird, slipstream, lonely sparseness from this trailer, which I guess shouldn't come as much of a surprise. But I do hope there's a little more subtlety than we're seeing here.
RE: the last 2-3 books in the cycle, apart from the awkwardness of the author writing himself in as a character, what distracted me was that they felt really rushed, and basically unedited. I can't really fault King too much for the rushed part, considering that he nearly died a few years before. I thought there was a real sense of urgency to the final books, like "OK, I got lucky that time, but if I'm going to finish this it's now or never."
posted by Funeral march of an old jawbone at 9:33 AM on May 3, 2017 [4 favorites]
The most memorable part of the books for me was how well King evoked the loneliness and sense of loss of Roland's world; a strange future and/or parallel version of our own where some strange technologies have evolved, followed by some unknown apocalyptic event, followed by a more stable, (albeit more primitive and feudal) civilization, which is now breaking up as time and the world itself winds down. (I agree with previous comments naming Book IV, 'Wizard and Glass' as a particular favorite; it's really intriguing world-building by way of telling Roland's backstory. We get a glimpse of Midworld in his youth, before things have fallen apart completely.)
I'm not getting much of that weird, slipstream, lonely sparseness from this trailer, which I guess shouldn't come as much of a surprise. But I do hope there's a little more subtlety than we're seeing here.
RE: the last 2-3 books in the cycle, apart from the awkwardness of the author writing himself in as a character, what distracted me was that they felt really rushed, and basically unedited. I can't really fault King too much for the rushed part, considering that he nearly died a few years before. I thought there was a real sense of urgency to the final books, like "OK, I got lucky that time, but if I'm going to finish this it's now or never."
posted by Funeral march of an old jawbone at 9:33 AM on May 3, 2017 [4 favorites]
The whole 'I do not love handguns with my hands, I love handguns with every fiber of my being' speech seemed, I thought, kinda creepy and gun-fetishing.
The trailer does worryingly make his gunslinging a lot more flashy than the books do: catching clips out of midair etc. In the books he's not showy but workmanlike and --as RolandOfEld says -- very very good with his hands.
The "I do not shoot with my hand" mantra always felt to me much more about taking responsibility for the action of shooting the gun than about fetishising it.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 9:34 AM on May 3, 2017 [16 favorites]
The trailer does worryingly make his gunslinging a lot more flashy than the books do: catching clips out of midair etc. In the books he's not showy but workmanlike and --as RolandOfEld says -- very very good with his hands.
The "I do not shoot with my hand" mantra always felt to me much more about taking responsibility for the action of shooting the gun than about fetishising it.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 9:34 AM on May 3, 2017 [16 favorites]
And I don't know that I particularly buy McConaughey as the MiB yet. But to be fair casting King's "evil walking in human form" characters has always been a slippery business because they're always much more memorable in your own head. Flagg in the Stand adaptation was similarly just not right.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 9:38 AM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 9:38 AM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
Well said Kyle. SK is not a gun fetishist. Far from it, so I wonder what his take is, though he is pretty clearly supportive (as of yet) of this interpretation so who knows...
And, in the books, there's very much a sense of responsibility for the guns and using them... and consequences, terrible and tangible ones. I was raised around firearms and that jives with how I was brought up to respect their use and utility and to retain a very high level of respect-to-the-point-of-apprehension lest you pay a high price.
I mean, and this is a spoiler but a minor one in the overall sense of things, Roland literally kills one of his best friends in an accidental shooting that is one of the many things in his past that haunt him constantly. Aside from that there's [numerous] references to when Roland's actions in regard to his hands, his training/motive, and how it interacts with the guns is downright frightening, even to himself.
Hell, even the trailer shows Roland training Jake in how to use the weapons properly. There's several weapons training/safety references in the series. Guns are taken very seriously and are only fetishized in the way that we look to knights/samarui and their respective weapons. There's even scenes where semi and fully automatic weapons are looked at with disgust for their lack of utility and only use being mass killings.
posted by RolandOfEld at 9:44 AM on May 3, 2017 [6 favorites]
And, in the books, there's very much a sense of responsibility for the guns and using them... and consequences, terrible and tangible ones. I was raised around firearms and that jives with how I was brought up to respect their use and utility and to retain a very high level of respect-to-the-point-of-apprehension lest you pay a high price.
I mean, and this is a spoiler but a minor one in the overall sense of things, Roland literally kills one of his best friends in an accidental shooting that is one of the many things in his past that haunt him constantly. Aside from that there's [numerous] references to when Roland's actions in regard to his hands, his training/motive, and how it interacts with the guns is downright frightening, even to himself.
Hell, even the trailer shows Roland training Jake in how to use the weapons properly. There's several weapons training/safety references in the series. Guns are taken very seriously and are only fetishized in the way that we look to knights/samarui and their respective weapons. There's even scenes where semi and fully automatic weapons are looked at with disgust for their lack of utility and only use being mass killings.
posted by RolandOfEld at 9:44 AM on May 3, 2017 [6 favorites]
One way of handling the differences between the Dark Tower Books and the Dark Tower Films (because oh yeah there will be sequels) is that the Movies are in effect a different playthrough of the Dark Tower plot than the books.
We'll know for certain if the Gunslinger has a certain horn in this movie which might mean that much of the action from books 1-7 might play out in dramatically different ways.
In some ways I think that would be the best way of handling the books because you really can't ever be true to them and going with an alternative universe/timeline version of the plot in a way similar to Moorcock's various eternal champions are basically different incarnations of the each other gives the screen writers a lot of latitude and to be perfectly honest fits within the established premise of the Gunslinger series as a metatextual exploration of lots of his different books.
posted by vuron at 9:46 AM on May 3, 2017 [7 favorites]
We'll know for certain if the Gunslinger has a certain horn in this movie which might mean that much of the action from books 1-7 might play out in dramatically different ways.
In some ways I think that would be the best way of handling the books because you really can't ever be true to them and going with an alternative universe/timeline version of the plot in a way similar to Moorcock's various eternal champions are basically different incarnations of the each other gives the screen writers a lot of latitude and to be perfectly honest fits within the established premise of the Gunslinger series as a metatextual exploration of lots of his different books.
posted by vuron at 9:46 AM on May 3, 2017 [7 favorites]
Yeah so it's quest x.0 so it's got a built-in reason for ignoring aspects of the book.
posted by vuron at 10:03 AM on May 3, 2017
posted by vuron at 10:03 AM on May 3, 2017
How anyone can not find McConaughey terrifying as he slowly melts into Christopher Walken*? He scares the crap out of me in car commercials now. He's half Voldemort, without prosthetics.
*And you know it's not going to be Adorable Christopher Walken. It's going to be Walken from the Territories. Dead Zone Walken.
posted by Lyn Never at 10:04 AM on May 3, 2017 [8 favorites]
*And you know it's not going to be Adorable Christopher Walken. It's going to be Walken from the Territories. Dead Zone Walken.
posted by Lyn Never at 10:04 AM on May 3, 2017 [8 favorites]
That's good to keep in mind. I'll adjust my expectations accordingly.
Still want my Oy tho
posted by Existential Dread at 10:04 AM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
Still want my Oy tho
posted by Existential Dread at 10:04 AM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
I'm gonna mash up a bunch of Clint Eastwood westerns with that Robert Browning poem as a voiceover, throw in some shots of Barad-dur and maybe a closeup of a flower from a Terrence Malick movie, and watch that instead.
posted by Gerald Bostock at 10:06 AM on May 3, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Gerald Bostock at 10:06 AM on May 3, 2017 [7 favorites]
mash up a bunch of Clint Eastwood westerns with that Robert Browning poem as a voiceover, throw in some shots of Barad-dur and maybe a closeup of a flower from a Terrence Malick movieYeah, I'd watch that. Can we get Ennio Morricone to write the score?
posted by curiousgene at 10:13 AM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
The trailer does worryingly make his gunslinging a lot more flashy than the books do: catching clips out of midair etc. In the books he's not showy but workmanlike and --as RolandOfEld says -- very very good with his hands.
"His fingers did their reloading trick"
I'm not sure this movie is going to capture the mystique of the gunslinger the way the books do; it's not a gun fetish, it's not an action fetish, it's that the gunslingers of Roland's world are trained to be weapons ("My weapon is David"). Their guns are part of them; but Roland would be as deadly with anything else (don't we see a gunslinger use a sling at one point?). So the mantra about the guns is not about the guns, it's about the gunslinger keeping focus on his purpose. That being said, the later books also show us that the gunslinger is more than a person who deals in lead, as well.
But I don't know how you bring that across in a film; so much of it is because we get to ride behind the eyes of Roland (and Eddie and Susannah and Jake) and gain understanding that way - that there is no delight in the kill, and that there is horror in them at what they can do, that they do what they have to to fulfill their ka and their purpose. And the first book is more about how Roland has been hollowed out and is maybe starting to fill back in some of his basic humanity; even if this is iteration DT+1 and only focused on the first book, that struggle for Roland is important to my eyes - it informs a lot about the character and what he will do to get through his quest.
I'm in love with the casting though, so I have no doubt I will see this.
posted by nubs at 10:14 AM on May 3, 2017 [9 favorites]
"His fingers did their reloading trick"
I'm not sure this movie is going to capture the mystique of the gunslinger the way the books do; it's not a gun fetish, it's not an action fetish, it's that the gunslingers of Roland's world are trained to be weapons ("My weapon is David"). Their guns are part of them; but Roland would be as deadly with anything else (don't we see a gunslinger use a sling at one point?). So the mantra about the guns is not about the guns, it's about the gunslinger keeping focus on his purpose. That being said, the later books also show us that the gunslinger is more than a person who deals in lead, as well.
But I don't know how you bring that across in a film; so much of it is because we get to ride behind the eyes of Roland (and Eddie and Susannah and Jake) and gain understanding that way - that there is no delight in the kill, and that there is horror in them at what they can do, that they do what they have to to fulfill their ka and their purpose. And the first book is more about how Roland has been hollowed out and is maybe starting to fill back in some of his basic humanity; even if this is iteration DT+1 and only focused on the first book, that struggle for Roland is important to my eyes - it informs a lot about the character and what he will do to get through his quest.
I'm in love with the casting though, so I have no doubt I will see this.
posted by nubs at 10:14 AM on May 3, 2017 [9 favorites]
The biggest problem with any adaptation of the Dark Tower books is that they are just too many things to too many people, King included. Is it the cryptic terseness of I? The hard-edged, drug-addled narrative of II? The overly-systematized "revised" I, which loses the poetry in favor of consistency? Is it the not-so-great metafiction of the later books? Is it the endlessly referential text that spans many of his not-the-main-DT novels? Is it weird west or portal quest?
The cycle grew organically over decades. I-IV are all slivers of King as he was writing them, from the characters to the style. V-VII are "oh thank GOD I'm not dead, and now I have to finish MY MAGNUM OPUS." DT is something he enjoyed (enjoys) tremendously, and which many readers enjoyed tremendously, and which he felt was vital. And it is simply nowhere near the quality of his best work, not even in the same ZIP code. I've never heard anyone with a lick of critical distance from King's work say otherwise. If people are around and reading Stephen King a century from now, most of them won't be reading Dark Tower books.
posted by cupcakeninja at 10:15 AM on May 3, 2017 [3 favorites]
The cycle grew organically over decades. I-IV are all slivers of King as he was writing them, from the characters to the style. V-VII are "oh thank GOD I'm not dead, and now I have to finish MY MAGNUM OPUS." DT is something he enjoyed (enjoys) tremendously, and which many readers enjoyed tremendously, and which he felt was vital. And it is simply nowhere near the quality of his best work, not even in the same ZIP code. I've never heard anyone with a lick of critical distance from King's work say otherwise. If people are around and reading Stephen King a century from now, most of them won't be reading Dark Tower books.
posted by cupcakeninja at 10:15 AM on May 3, 2017 [3 favorites]
Flagg in the Stand adaptation was similarly just not right.
I'll always have a soft spot for the Mick Garris miniseries; it was pretty well cast (oh my god Matt Frewer!) and accomplished a lot within the limitations of its budget and being made for network TV. I thought Jamey Sheridan did an OK job with the "simultaneously jocular and menacing" part of Flagg's character, even if the decision to use monster makeup and bad early CGI didn't quite work. The feathery headbanger hairdo they gave him definitely hasn't aged well. I still experience a bit of cognitive dissonance whenever I see him in an episode of Law & Order: Criminal Intent.
I'm not sure about McConaughey yet; the trailer doesn't really establish him as anything more than a fairly generic looking darkly-handsome-bad-guy. Part of it is that the "sexy unbuttoned shirt and skin-tight frock coat" combo looks goofy to me; In The Gunslinger I believe he was wearing a black robe, but I suppose that might look goofy on the screen too. If I recall correctly, his role in the story is also a little less clear early on in the books; he's clearly an antagonist but I don't think we learn that Walter/The Man in Black is the same big bad entity as Flagg from The Stand until later on.
posted by Funeral march of an old jawbone at 10:15 AM on May 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
nubs wins the thread. Go ahead and shut it down mods.
posted by RolandOfEld at 10:21 AM on May 3, 2017
posted by RolandOfEld at 10:21 AM on May 3, 2017
I'm not sure about McConaughey yet; the trailer doesn't really establish him as anything more than a fairly generic looking darkly-handsome-bad-guy. Part of it is that the "sexy unbuttoned shirt and skin-tight frock coat" combo looks goofy to me; In The Gunslinger I believe he was wearing a black robe, but I suppose that might look goofy on the screen too.
I was thinking more along the lines of Kevin Spacey in Se7en; shaved or tonsured head, teeth filed into points, sort of almost-human but not quite right.
posted by Existential Dread at 10:27 AM on May 3, 2017
I was thinking more along the lines of Kevin Spacey in Se7en; shaved or tonsured head, teeth filed into points, sort of almost-human but not quite right.
posted by Existential Dread at 10:27 AM on May 3, 2017
nubs wins the thread. Go ahead and shut it down mods.
posted by RolandOfEld
Praise from Cesar. I am humbled; thankee-sai.
posted by nubs at 10:29 AM on May 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by RolandOfEld
Praise from Cesar. I am humbled; thankee-sai.
posted by nubs at 10:29 AM on May 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
cool trailer, I guess. Do I still need to see the movie?
posted by philip-random at 10:35 AM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by philip-random at 10:35 AM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
I don't know; as a generic action movie flavored by The Dark Tower, I'll go see it. Idris does look fab as Roland, though.
I think my favorite book in the series was The Drawing of the Three, just because all three characters are pretty interesting. And Roland, in the first three books, definitely grew and changed as a character, in interesting ways.
I really dislike King's inclusion of what usually turns out to be ephemeral pop-cultural artifacts, when he does so, in his works, and the Wolves of Calla essentially was nothing but that. And the meta bits were awkward at best.
Spoilers for books, I guess:
One of the things which was interesting in the early books was that the gunslinger has an extremely limited number of shells for his guns, which means he uses them rarely. That was really interesting and I don't have high hopes in that regard.
In the first book, Roland was basically a machine, without thought and only bent on his purpose. Jake made him into a person again (slowly). You have to remember he let Jake die in the first book, something which haunted him as much as any other event in his tragic (in the classical sense) life did.
In the second book, he is physically injured in a way which essentially means he has to relearn his trade, which was another step in his development.
posted by maxwelton at 10:44 AM on May 3, 2017 [6 favorites]
I think my favorite book in the series was The Drawing of the Three, just because all three characters are pretty interesting. And Roland, in the first three books, definitely grew and changed as a character, in interesting ways.
I really dislike King's inclusion of what usually turns out to be ephemeral pop-cultural artifacts, when he does so, in his works, and the Wolves of Calla essentially was nothing but that. And the meta bits were awkward at best.
Spoilers for books, I guess:
One of the things which was interesting in the early books was that the gunslinger has an extremely limited number of shells for his guns, which means he uses them rarely. That was really interesting and I don't have high hopes in that regard.
In the first book, Roland was basically a machine, without thought and only bent on his purpose. Jake made him into a person again (slowly). You have to remember he let Jake die in the first book, something which haunted him as much as any other event in his tragic (in the classical sense) life did.
In the second book, he is physically injured in a way which essentially means he has to relearn his trade, which was another step in his development.
posted by maxwelton at 10:44 AM on May 3, 2017 [6 favorites]
The Wind Through the Keyhole, a DT novel that King wrote after the main story was finished as a flashback novel, was wayyyyy better than all of book 6 and much of book 7. It's a rare beast, a story within a story within a story done well.
That's the novel I don't have a Donald Grant edition for, although I'm not a big fan of Jae Lee's art tbh.
posted by infinitewindow at 11:07 AM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
That's the novel I don't have a Donald Grant edition for, although I'm not a big fan of Jae Lee's art tbh.
posted by infinitewindow at 11:07 AM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
I remember the first couple books being a little boilerplate themselves; the weird stuff didn't start showing up until like book 3, as I remember. It has been a while, though.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:11 AM on May 3, 2017
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:11 AM on May 3, 2017
I was hoping for more of a Children of Men vibe - blight, graffiti - for the NY parts than glittery bright modern. The loneliness and smallness of Jake's routines in NY were critical, I thought, in his character development. NY in the 70s: terrifying more than enticing. It's a big deal when he ditches school. And when he enters the locus-of-evil-wearing-a-house lot. And then he's just out of his depth entirely in Roland's world.
(also orcs? wtf.)
posted by janell at 11:14 AM on May 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
(also orcs? wtf.)
posted by janell at 11:14 AM on May 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
I remember the first couple books being a little boilerplate themselves
I'm thinking you read the revised version of Book I maybe...?
posted by RolandOfEld at 11:20 AM on May 3, 2017
I'm thinking you read the revised version of Book I maybe...?
posted by RolandOfEld at 11:20 AM on May 3, 2017
I can't remember what happened in the books.
This trailer looks great and Hollywood and locked up $20 from moi, with a $10 tip to the local theatre. It looks trippy and cool enough, with a focus on character, that it'll be worth two hours in a dark room with strangers at a cheap price.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:25 AM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
This trailer looks great and Hollywood and locked up $20 from moi, with a $10 tip to the local theatre. It looks trippy and cool enough, with a focus on character, that it'll be worth two hours in a dark room with strangers at a cheap price.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:25 AM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
I realize I'm getting ahead of things here, but assuming we do ever get a flashback to a younger Roland, who plays him? Who can do Idris Elba in his formative years?
Also I'm actually pretty happy with Matt McConaughey too; I've always found him vaguely creepy and unsettling in a way I can't articulate. The Man in Black should be a lot more than vaguely unsettling, but I think he can pull it off.
posted by nat at 11:27 AM on May 3, 2017 [3 favorites]
Also I'm actually pretty happy with Matt McConaughey too; I've always found him vaguely creepy and unsettling in a way I can't articulate. The Man in Black should be a lot more than vaguely unsettling, but I think he can pull it off.
posted by nat at 11:27 AM on May 3, 2017 [3 favorites]
he is pretty clearly supportive (as of yet) of this interpretation
King is always supportive of the movie adaptations, even if they're terrible; there's plenty of interviews from the time in which he is very effusive about the Dreamcatcher movie.
("Even on a movie which didn't succeed very well, I do okay.")
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 11:28 AM on May 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
King is always supportive of the movie adaptations, even if they're terrible; there's plenty of interviews from the time in which he is very effusive about the Dreamcatcher movie.
("Even on a movie which didn't succeed very well, I do okay.")
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 11:28 AM on May 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
I do hope to see the MiB driving a Lincoln Continental at some point though.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:32 AM on May 3, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:32 AM on May 3, 2017 [3 favorites]
I always pictured Roland as an aged beaten-up Clint Eastwood, but Elba will do nicely in the role.
I also didn't read the books as action, more of a somber introspective quest. Loved the first book more than it deserved, but lost interest after #3. Regardless, I will pay my toll to the keep of the cinema.
posted by blue_beetle at 12:08 PM on May 3, 2017 [3 favorites]
I also didn't read the books as action, more of a somber introspective quest. Loved the first book more than it deserved, but lost interest after #3. Regardless, I will pay my toll to the keep of the cinema.
posted by blue_beetle at 12:08 PM on May 3, 2017 [3 favorites]
I read the first book(s?) so long ago I didn't even remember there being a kid in them. Too bad.
posted by bongo_x at 12:27 PM on May 3, 2017
posted by bongo_x at 12:27 PM on May 3, 2017
Who can do Idris Elba in his formative years?
Michael B. Jordan. Bonus: The Wire connection.
Where's Wallace, String?
posted by Halloween Jack at 12:47 PM on May 3, 2017 [5 favorites]
Michael B. Jordan. Bonus: The Wire connection.
Where's Wallace, String?
posted by Halloween Jack at 12:47 PM on May 3, 2017 [5 favorites]
But I don't know how you bring that across in a film; so much of it is because we get to ride behind the eyes of Roland (and Eddie and Susannah and Jake) and gain understanding that way - that there is no delight in the kill, and that there is horror in them at what they can do, that they do what they have to to fulfill their ka and their purpose. And the first book is more about how Roland has been hollowed out and is maybe starting to fill back in some of his basic humanity; even if this is iteration DT+1 and only focused on the first book, that struggle for Roland is important to my eyes - it informs a lot about the character and what he will do to get through his quest.
What scene do they have to get absolutely right to establish this?
Tull.
posted by delfin at 12:48 PM on May 3, 2017 [3 favorites]
What scene do they have to get absolutely right to establish this?
Tull.
posted by delfin at 12:48 PM on May 3, 2017 [3 favorites]
Hmm, that trailer looked like a Western version of Wanted (2008). :/
"I always pictured Roland as an aged beaten-up Clint Eastwood, but Elba will do nicely in the role."
I feel the same way. Maybe if Elba had lost some weight..
Casting McConaughey as Walter looks good too. Very sinister. However, I'd like to see a fake trailer with the roles switched. :P
posted by dogstoevski at 1:43 PM on May 3, 2017 [3 favorites]
"I always pictured Roland as an aged beaten-up Clint Eastwood, but Elba will do nicely in the role."
I feel the same way. Maybe if Elba had lost some weight..
Casting McConaughey as Walter looks good too. Very sinister. However, I'd like to see a fake trailer with the roles switched. :P
posted by dogstoevski at 1:43 PM on May 3, 2017 [3 favorites]
So Jake doesn't appear in Roland's world after being pushed on the street in NY? It's hard to get a sense, from the trailer, of what is and isn't cut or changed from the books.
posted by Autumnheart at 1:48 PM on May 3, 2017
posted by Autumnheart at 1:48 PM on May 3, 2017
As far as I can tell they're keeping under wraps how much of The Gunslinger they're adapting. Obviously there's some elements of it, and Jake has to get his visions of the Tower and Roland from somewhere, but hell if I know where it'll be.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 1:54 PM on May 3, 2017
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 1:54 PM on May 3, 2017
Erm. Huh. Looks like they spent some real money on this and the production values are very nice. But based on that trailer it looks like they skipped the first couple of books and went for Jake's "origin story," but for me the first two books were the best. I suppose they're looking at sequels for Eddie and Susanna's stories. Not to mention Roland's, which was yet another book.
I didn't finish the series. Wolves of the Calla broke me. So. Slow. And not in the way the first book was deliberately paced. It just wasn't terribly interesting at that point. But as for the movies, there's so much filler they could tack that whole storyline in a movie in about 15 minutes, tops.
I dunno. Never heard of this director but whoever cut the trailer did a pretty lame job of it--cut, fade to black, cut, fade to black...repeat 100 times.
posted by zardoz at 1:55 PM on May 3, 2017
I didn't finish the series. Wolves of the Calla broke me. So. Slow. And not in the way the first book was deliberately paced. It just wasn't terribly interesting at that point. But as for the movies, there's so much filler they could tack that whole storyline in a movie in about 15 minutes, tops.
I dunno. Never heard of this director but whoever cut the trailer did a pretty lame job of it--cut, fade to black, cut, fade to black...repeat 100 times.
posted by zardoz at 1:55 PM on May 3, 2017
It's been so long since I've seen a trailer that didn't give away the entire movie in 60 seconds, I hardly know what to do with myself.
posted by Autumnheart at 1:56 PM on May 3, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Autumnheart at 1:56 PM on May 3, 2017 [4 favorites]
Like some have said.. I haven't read the books ( Im going to read the Gunslinger) but this looks different that the impression I had of the book. There was no wormhole thing in the book right? And no kid playing that role? I thought it was more epic and slow and moody in the book. This looks kinda whatever to be honest. But I hope it'll be good.
posted by Liquidwolf at 2:16 PM on May 3, 2017
posted by Liquidwolf at 2:16 PM on May 3, 2017
Jake is a kid and appears first in book 1. Roland happens on him at the Way Station. The boy (referred to as "the boy" most of the time) can't remember how he got there, until Roland hypnotizes him. Jake departs again in the railroad tunnel. In The Drawing of the Three, first there's Eddie, then Susannah, then Jake finally makes it back over after entering a terribly run-down house that does, in fact, serve as a gateway. That's the only time it acts like one in the books, though--Roland does visit New York, but in the company of Eddie, not Jake. Eddie's NY is in the 70s and Jake's is in, what, the late 80s. Susannah is drawn from the late '50s IIRC (beginning of the Civil Rights movement).
posted by Autumnheart at 2:22 PM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Autumnheart at 2:22 PM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
Anyone picking up the series, or thinking about it, should feel free to memail me for private discussion on things, it's my jam obviously.
posted by RolandOfEld at 2:43 PM on May 3, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by RolandOfEld at 2:43 PM on May 3, 2017 [4 favorites]
In my not-so-humble opinion, though, I still think the trailer for "IT" does a far better job of evoking the novel (even as it makes significant changes to an iconic scene) than this trailer does of evoking the Dark Tower. I'm hardly a cinephile by any stretch of the imagination, but I would've placed the first trailer in the desert. As it stands, there's nothing to distinguish this trailer from any other "saving the universe with guns and a precocious kid" movie.
posted by Autumnheart at 2:47 PM on May 3, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Autumnheart at 2:47 PM on May 3, 2017 [3 favorites]
And this is reminding me that we started up a book club for the Dark Tower series over on FanFare that I let peter out after the first three books. So I'll try - work is crazy busy right now - to get Wizard & Glass up for discussion, because we still have a lot of road to go (but with Blaine, it'll go fast).
posted by nubs at 2:53 PM on May 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by nubs at 2:53 PM on May 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
Will it crash into the river at the end?
posted by Autumnheart at 2:57 PM on May 3, 2017
posted by Autumnheart at 2:57 PM on May 3, 2017
Blaine is a pain, and that's the truth.
posted by Night_owl at 3:56 PM on May 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Night_owl at 3:56 PM on May 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
It's like telling a samurai to just get a spear,
The samurai must be conversant with the Yari
(sorry about the derail)
posted by lumpenprole at 4:27 PM on May 3, 2017
The samurai must be conversant with the Yari
(sorry about the derail)
posted by lumpenprole at 4:27 PM on May 3, 2017
But seriously, watch Samurai jack.
posted by Artw at 4:48 PM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 4:48 PM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
I've watched this 3 times now and I've let it sit with me for a few hours. And the more I think about it. The more I'm glad that they're setting the story in this way. The Dark Tower is cyclical by nature. Good versus evil. It will always be this way. There will always be a Gunslinger and there will always be a Man in Black. As it should. Idris is perfectly cast. And while I wish we had our Eddie and Susannah and Oy, who knows what the future holds.
There are other worlds than these. This just happens to be the one spoke of the wheel we're living on.
posted by Fizz at 5:29 PM on May 3, 2017 [8 favorites]
There are other worlds than these. This just happens to be the one spoke of the wheel we're living on.
posted by Fizz at 5:29 PM on May 3, 2017 [8 favorites]
Also, for anyone wanting to try the books. Be patient with Book 1. It takes a bit of time to find its groove. Think of it as an appetizer. You're wanting that main course and you're not satisfied with what you have in front of you. You like the idea of it but you're hungry for more.
The Drawing of the Three (Book 2) is where you'll get your first taste of what this world truly has to offer. It's worth waiting for.
posted by Fizz at 5:33 PM on May 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
The Drawing of the Three (Book 2) is where you'll get your first taste of what this world truly has to offer. It's worth waiting for.
posted by Fizz at 5:33 PM on May 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
Another big budget gun fetish movie. Yawn.
From a book called Gunslinger. Huh. I wonder of there will be guns in it?
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 5:51 PM on May 3, 2017 [8 favorites]
From a book called Gunslinger. Huh. I wonder of there will be guns in it?
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 5:51 PM on May 3, 2017 [8 favorites]
Coming at it completely cold it looks like a mid budget bad sci fi movie. Still: Idris Elba.
posted by Sebmojo at 6:37 PM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Sebmojo at 6:37 PM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
Watched it a couple times. Overall, I'm digging it and look forward to these further turnings of ka.
posted by chainlinkspiral at 7:23 PM on May 3, 2017
posted by chainlinkspiral at 7:23 PM on May 3, 2017
I love Idris Elba as much as any right-thinking person does, but the man is not infallible.
posted by The Card Cheat at 7:49 PM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by The Card Cheat at 7:49 PM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
All I want is Blaine. It's all I've ever wanted. My heart was SHRIEKING in delight at that whole book section, which I'm given to understand is commonly disliked?
I just love Wacky Madlibs concepts taken extremely seriously.
Also, I'm glad I saw no Oy. It's better this way.
posted by pseudonymph at 8:22 PM on May 3, 2017 [4 favorites]
I just love Wacky Madlibs concepts taken extremely seriously.
Also, I'm glad I saw no Oy. It's better this way.
posted by pseudonymph at 8:22 PM on May 3, 2017 [4 favorites]
Oh, King Driis. So great. So terrible.
I mean, anything that has Idris Elba in an overcoat is... well, it's in my wheelhouse. But I don't think there's enough SHOUTING!
posted by prismatic7 at 9:15 PM on May 3, 2017
I mean, anything that has Idris Elba in an overcoat is... well, it's in my wheelhouse. But I don't think there's enough SHOUTING!
posted by prismatic7 at 9:15 PM on May 3, 2017
Thinking about a re-read of the first four books of this series (nothing on this world or others will get me to slog through 5 and 6 again), is the "old" version of book 1 available as an ebook? I gather it was rereleased and edited to avoid continuity errors that crept in after 20+ years, but I honestly just don't trust SK as an editor even a little bit, and would rather try the old version.
posted by skewed at 11:50 PM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by skewed at 11:50 PM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
I've been rereading the series and if they made a movie solely on the story told in Wizard and Glass, I'd be ok with that.
Heck just make it a Netflix Original.
posted by sio42
Yeah, agreed - it's the book in the series that made the greatest impression on me actually, despite perhaps liking others more.
It felt like the first time that characters (besides Roland*) really became people, who ran the story on the strength of their selves, rather than a (beautiful, eerie, compelling) world we were being taken on a tour through by interesting creations.
*And Roland too became much more fully realised in that one for me.
It's the difference between - Eddie and Susannah are wonderful characters I loved journeying with, but i miss Cuthbert.
posted by pseudonymph at 5:01 AM on May 4, 2017 [5 favorites]
Heck just make it a Netflix Original.
posted by sio42
Yeah, agreed - it's the book in the series that made the greatest impression on me actually, despite perhaps liking others more.
It felt like the first time that characters (besides Roland*) really became people, who ran the story on the strength of their selves, rather than a (beautiful, eerie, compelling) world we were being taken on a tour through by interesting creations.
*And Roland too became much more fully realised in that one for me.
It's the difference between - Eddie and Susannah are wonderful characters I loved journeying with, but i miss Cuthbert.
posted by pseudonymph at 5:01 AM on May 4, 2017 [5 favorites]
I've been rereading the series and if they made a movie solely on the story told in Wizard and Glass, I'd be ok with that.
The comics are your gateway drug. If you haven't seen them yet then I highly recommend you seek them out.
posted by RolandOfEld at 5:22 AM on May 4, 2017
The comics are your gateway drug. If you haven't seen them yet then I highly recommend you seek them out.
posted by RolandOfEld at 5:22 AM on May 4, 2017
is the "old" version of book 1 available as an ebook?
I might be able to help you here. Let me know.
posted by RolandOfEld at 5:22 AM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
I might be able to help you here. Let me know.
posted by RolandOfEld at 5:22 AM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
I've been rereading the series and if they made a movie solely on the story told in Wizard and Glass, I'd be ok with that.
It sounds like there is going to be a follow-up TV series that is at least partially based on Wizard and Glass. If I had to guess, I'd suspect that the show will make Roland and Walter's palaver in the golgotha the framing device for the story of Calla Bryn Sturges.
posted by Rock Steady at 7:27 AM on May 4, 2017
It sounds like there is going to be a follow-up TV series that is at least partially based on Wizard and Glass. If I had to guess, I'd suspect that the show will make Roland and Walter's palaver in the golgotha the framing device for the story of Calla Bryn Sturges.
posted by Rock Steady at 7:27 AM on May 4, 2017
I've been a constant reader since about 1978 when I was 9 years old and picked up a copy of Carrie that my mother had purchased at a garage sale. I figured out right then and there that I was THRILLED with being scared (on paper). I read that book at least a dozen times that summer.
I'm not a mega fan knows every little thing and all the pieces and connections - but I'd read the back of cereal box if he wrote it because I'm always highly, highly entertained - it's so easy for me to get lost in his world. I reckon it to slipping on a comfortable pair of shoes. I know his voice and I love where it takes me. Reading a new novel by him is at once familiar and yet new.
I had the glorious chance to meet him and take a picture with him in Dallas a few years ago and it just made my year!
In particular, I truly loved the Dark Tower series (except maybe the last 2 books) and I've read and re-read (via audiobook mostly) over the years. Since I love it so much, I'm trying really hard not to get my hopes up. With the exception of Shawshank & maybe The Green Mile, most of the movies & TV series based on his books has sucked so freaking bad. Something always seems to get lost in translation - so I'm...dubious at best. Yes, I'm going to buy a ticket for opening night, but I'm prepared to be disappointed.
Also, I adore Idris and it looks like he's doing a fine job -- but in my mind the Gunslinger always was and always will be a younger Clint Eastwood ala "Fist Full of Dollars."
posted by crayon at 9:38 AM on May 4, 2017
I'm not a mega fan knows every little thing and all the pieces and connections - but I'd read the back of cereal box if he wrote it because I'm always highly, highly entertained - it's so easy for me to get lost in his world. I reckon it to slipping on a comfortable pair of shoes. I know his voice and I love where it takes me. Reading a new novel by him is at once familiar and yet new.
I had the glorious chance to meet him and take a picture with him in Dallas a few years ago and it just made my year!
In particular, I truly loved the Dark Tower series (except maybe the last 2 books) and I've read and re-read (via audiobook mostly) over the years. Since I love it so much, I'm trying really hard not to get my hopes up. With the exception of Shawshank & maybe The Green Mile, most of the movies & TV series based on his books has sucked so freaking bad. Something always seems to get lost in translation - so I'm...dubious at best. Yes, I'm going to buy a ticket for opening night, but I'm prepared to be disappointed.
Also, I adore Idris and it looks like he's doing a fine job -- but in my mind the Gunslinger always was and always will be a younger Clint Eastwood ala "Fist Full of Dollars."
posted by crayon at 9:38 AM on May 4, 2017
(via audiobook mostly)
Frank Muller I hope, SK can write but reading isn't his forte in my opinion.
posted by RolandOfEld at 11:05 AM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
Frank Muller I hope, SK can write but reading isn't his forte in my opinion.
posted by RolandOfEld at 11:05 AM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
"Frank Muller I hope, SK can write but reading isn't his forte in my opinion."
True that! I actually got eviscerated by die hard King fans on a certain website for mentioning that his reading of Wind Through the Keyhole was absolutely ghastly. As if he, a mere mortal, can do no wrong. It was so bad, I stopped listening to the audiobook and read it in print instead.
posted by crayon at 1:30 PM on May 4, 2017
True that! I actually got eviscerated by die hard King fans on a certain website for mentioning that his reading of Wind Through the Keyhole was absolutely ghastly. As if he, a mere mortal, can do no wrong. It was so bad, I stopped listening to the audiobook and read it in print instead.
posted by crayon at 1:30 PM on May 4, 2017
Ditto, his reading of that one was bad but I think I was on a road trip and Frank Muller is long gone, sad story that, so it was a 'beggars can't be choosers' situation and I was stuck with him. Ew, maybe that contributed to me not liking it as much as I felt like it maybe deserved.
posted by RolandOfEld at 5:00 PM on May 4, 2017
posted by RolandOfEld at 5:00 PM on May 4, 2017
The Guns of Stephen King's "The Dark Tower"
What we surmised about Roland's twin revolvers from some early on-set photos that were released appear to be correct: they look to be customized Remington 1858 revolvers that fire metallic cartridges (the original Remingtons were cap-and-ball pistols) from unfluted cylinders that have been modified to swing out like a modern revolver so they don't have to be loaded via a loading gate. It's also clear from the trailer that the guns have brass or pale-gold colored trigger guards.posted by kirkaracha at 10:38 PM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
Clint favors the Colt Single Action Army in A Fistful of Dollars.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:44 PM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by kirkaracha at 10:44 PM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
I'd always thought a single action would be too small for Roland's guns. In the books they carry, both physically and emotionally, a weight that's larger than most along with a sense of dire import. One of them (Drawing of the Three I think) actually mentions the caliber. I like the choice and what I've seen so far.
posted by RolandOfEld at 5:57 AM on May 5, 2017
posted by RolandOfEld at 5:57 AM on May 5, 2017
Yup, citation from books lists caliber as .45 Long Colt. Feels valid enough to me.
posted by RolandOfEld at 6:20 AM on May 5, 2017
posted by RolandOfEld at 6:20 AM on May 5, 2017
Also the belt filled with 6 shooter reloads is hilarious. I get the Western Gunslinger motif must be maintained but still if you need that many bullets get an automatic pistol.
I may be mis-remembering but I believe in the book that bullets were very rare. He doesn't get more until he goes back to NYC with Eddie and gets some ammo from a gun store. So he's probably carrying all the bullets that are available to him.
posted by LizBoBiz at 7:56 AM on May 5, 2017 [3 favorites]
I may be mis-remembering but I believe in the book that bullets were very rare. He doesn't get more until he goes back to NYC with Eddie and gets some ammo from a gun store. So he's probably carrying all the bullets that are available to him.
posted by LizBoBiz at 7:56 AM on May 5, 2017 [3 favorites]
I may be mis-remembering but I believe in the book that bullets were very rare. He doesn't get more until he goes back to NYC with Eddie and gets some ammo from a gun store. So he's probably carrying all the bullets that are available to him.
Blah blah, mild spoilers follow, blah.
The trailer makes note of this as well, a good pull from the canon (pun?) if you ask me. Roland, specifically mentions in the books that many, if not all, of his shells are reloads of other cartridge. For those that don't know this is a real thing and is done via collecting the spent brass casings, adding new powder/primer, and manually crimping in a, perhaps homemade even, lead bullet. It makes sense due to the rarity of the manufacturing facilities in his where and when, but also in the sense that gunslingers probably want to be in control of the fabrication process where relevant. Not to mention that, primers aside, gunpowder (note that in the trailer his shots put out smoke, meaning he may not have had smokeless power or, well, Hollywood but whatever) and lead are relatively simple things compared to the brass cartridge casings themselves, which he'd likely make it a point to collect where possible.
For what it's worth, the scenes when Roland visits New York City and is exposed to the 'marvels' (including buying cartridges when he hopes his host has enough money to buy maybe if he's extremely lucky 20 odd shells, figuring that some single digit number of them comes in each box.. then when he learns it's 50 or so in a box he loses his shit in a moment of euphoric wtfomgbbqkittenz) are Good times.
posted by RolandOfEld at 8:25 AM on May 5, 2017 [2 favorites]
Blah blah, mild spoilers follow, blah.
The trailer makes note of this as well, a good pull from the canon (pun?) if you ask me. Roland, specifically mentions in the books that many, if not all, of his shells are reloads of other cartridge. For those that don't know this is a real thing and is done via collecting the spent brass casings, adding new powder/primer, and manually crimping in a, perhaps homemade even, lead bullet. It makes sense due to the rarity of the manufacturing facilities in his where and when, but also in the sense that gunslingers probably want to be in control of the fabrication process where relevant. Not to mention that, primers aside, gunpowder (note that in the trailer his shots put out smoke, meaning he may not have had smokeless power or, well, Hollywood but whatever) and lead are relatively simple things compared to the brass cartridge casings themselves, which he'd likely make it a point to collect where possible.
For what it's worth, the scenes when Roland visits New York City and is exposed to the 'marvels' (including buying cartridges when he hopes his host has enough money to buy maybe if he's extremely lucky 20 odd shells, figuring that some single digit number of them comes in each box.. then when he learns it's 50 or so in a box he loses his shit in a moment of euphoric wtfomgbbqkittenz) are Good times.
posted by RolandOfEld at 8:25 AM on May 5, 2017 [2 favorites]
I believe in the book that bullets were very rare. He doesn't get more until he goes back to NYC with Eddie and gets some ammo from a gun store.
A plot point is, indeed, some of the cartridges may have gotten wet and may not fire, so they are kept for last. And IIRC, Roland goes to the gunshop himeself and is overwhelmed by the bounty of newly manufactured ammunition.
posted by mikelieman at 8:32 AM on May 5, 2017
A plot point is, indeed, some of the cartridges may have gotten wet and may not fire, so they are kept for last. And IIRC, Roland goes to the gunshop himeself and is overwhelmed by the bounty of newly manufactured ammunition.
posted by mikelieman at 8:32 AM on May 5, 2017
Yeah, I remember all the scarcity of ammunition as an interesting plot point. But I'm guessing he's going to be shooting at least a couple hundred rounds in this movie, based on the trailer. I hope movie-Roland doesn't just have an inexhaustible supply of ammunition up until the one pivotal scene or whatever.
posted by skewed at 8:55 AM on May 5, 2017
posted by skewed at 8:55 AM on May 5, 2017
OK, thanks to this discussion I just read the first book (revised version) and it's AWESOME. In the intro he says it was inspired by Tolkien, but it's clearly not by the contents of the Lord of the Rings so much as the idea that a writer can dream up a huge unexplained invented world and set an epic story there. Everybody's a grotesque. Huge emotions suffuse everything (like horniness). Characters and settings exist for their dreamlike resonance rather than as logical elements. No wonder his modern-day sequels don't work (according to comments above) -- he's an old man wandering around the unfinished imagination-spawned nightmares of a teenager who basically produced this stuff through "automatic writing," trusting that his deep unconscious mind knew what it was doing.
Also, this trailer must be for some other book, because it's all about New York and Jake, and actually explains things.
posted by Harvey Kilobit at 3:35 AM on May 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
Also, this trailer must be for some other book, because it's all about New York and Jake, and actually explains things.
posted by Harvey Kilobit at 3:35 AM on May 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
Also, this trailer must be for some other book, because it's all about New York and Jake, and actually explains things.
I'm not really going to blame them for maybe picking up some of the Jake/New York storyline to get this going as a movie/TV franchise. In my experience, people often bounce hard off The Gunslinger, even fans of King, because it is so different and out there. There's three hurdles for most readers I think: (a) the King name conjures expectations of a different story, a horror story, and while the DT saga has its share of horror, it's also a SF story and a F story and a western. So I think many people bounce off that expectation of what a King story is (and he's a perfectly fine SF/F writer, but nobody thinks of him that way generally) and then (b) that heavy mix of genres that are getting thrown at them. I have no proof, but I suspect that the ease of entry to the DT series has a lot to do with reader's previous experience with reading a solid chunk of SF/F; it seems to prime readers to handle dropping into a story where everything is kind of "wtf" for the first little bit; and lastly (c) the fact that Roland is a giant fucking asshole for most of the first book.
For me, I was hooked from the first time I read "The man in black fled across the desert and the gunslinger followed", but that first book is a hard sell and would be a hard movie.
posted by nubs at 9:11 AM on May 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
I'm not really going to blame them for maybe picking up some of the Jake/New York storyline to get this going as a movie/TV franchise. In my experience, people often bounce hard off The Gunslinger, even fans of King, because it is so different and out there. There's three hurdles for most readers I think: (a) the King name conjures expectations of a different story, a horror story, and while the DT saga has its share of horror, it's also a SF story and a F story and a western. So I think many people bounce off that expectation of what a King story is (and he's a perfectly fine SF/F writer, but nobody thinks of him that way generally) and then (b) that heavy mix of genres that are getting thrown at them. I have no proof, but I suspect that the ease of entry to the DT series has a lot to do with reader's previous experience with reading a solid chunk of SF/F; it seems to prime readers to handle dropping into a story where everything is kind of "wtf" for the first little bit; and lastly (c) the fact that Roland is a giant fucking asshole for most of the first book.
For me, I was hooked from the first time I read "The man in black fled across the desert and the gunslinger followed", but that first book is a hard sell and would be a hard movie.
posted by nubs at 9:11 AM on May 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
No lie, nubs, I've read that book a couple times and I got chills just reading you quote that line.
posted by Night_owl at 2:30 PM on May 17, 2017
posted by Night_owl at 2:30 PM on May 17, 2017
It has my vote as one of the best opening lines of a novel.
posted by nubs at 3:00 PM on May 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by nubs at 3:00 PM on May 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
I think you're right that many readers would find it all confusing unless they'd read SF already. Since I have, when he got to describing the crazy cult leader out in the desert who led his flock with an AMOCO gas pump, I said "Now I know what kind of story I'm reading!" For some reason, "everything's just falling apart and we'll turn back to the 19th century" was a popular theme for SF futurism in the early '70s.
Another reason The Gunslinger is so interesting is that, in every Stephen King book, my favorite part is when you get a peek into the Otherworld where the evil comes from. But this book is 100% SK's imagined Otherworld, with no boring stuff about people in Maine or whatever.
posted by Harvey Kilobit at 9:58 PM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
Another reason The Gunslinger is so interesting is that, in every Stephen King book, my favorite part is when you get a peek into the Otherworld where the evil comes from. But this book is 100% SK's imagined Otherworld, with no boring stuff about people in Maine or whatever.
posted by Harvey Kilobit at 9:58 PM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
The man in black fled across the desert and the gunslinger followed.
And then the murders began.
posted by quinndexter at 12:15 AM on May 19, 2017 [4 favorites]
And then the murders began.
posted by quinndexter at 12:15 AM on May 19, 2017 [4 favorites]
Which is pretty accurate.
posted by nubs at 11:21 AM on May 19, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by nubs at 11:21 AM on May 19, 2017 [5 favorites]
this book is 100% SK's imagined Otherworld, with no boring stuff about people in Maine or whatever.
Yup, and for a Constant Reader like myself anyways (or at least I was...) those folks in Maine, IT and a few others notwithstanding, can get a bit tiresome. And don't even get me started about female joggers on beaches or *insert any SK book set in Florida*. I digress, but what I'm trying to say is that I get this sentiment and dig it very much.
You should pick up the comics, they capture that "Otherworld" look and feel amazingly well.
posted by RolandOfEld at 6:31 AM on May 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
Yup, and for a Constant Reader like myself anyways (or at least I was...) those folks in Maine, IT and a few others notwithstanding, can get a bit tiresome. And don't even get me started about female joggers on beaches or *insert any SK book set in Florida*. I digress, but what I'm trying to say is that I get this sentiment and dig it very much.
You should pick up the comics, they capture that "Otherworld" look and feel amazingly well.
posted by RolandOfEld at 6:31 AM on May 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
And don't even get me started about female joggers on beaches or *insert any SK book set in Florida*A few years ago I realized that Stephen King's tropes follow the arc of his own life/career, gradually shifting from younger people battling personal demons in rural New England to wealthy, successful older people who are dealing with the aftermath of awful random trauma that's been inflicted on them, which probably explains why I haven't enjoyed them as much. I'm no longer all that young, but it's still easier for me to relate to his earlier "just trying to make my way in the world" characters than his older "need to work through some stuff so I'll drop everything and move into an island beach house in Florida" characters. RE: Female joggers on beaches, similarly, it seems like a lot of his newer horror is less supernatural and more "look how unimaginably cruel human beings can be to each other," which is not what I look for in my escapist fiction.
Although - looking back over his bibliography just now I remembered how much I enjoyed The Bazaar of Bad Dreams, which felt like a bit of a return to his old form.
posted by Funeral march of an old jawbone at 9:05 AM on May 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
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posted by RolandOfEld at 6:58 AM on May 3, 2017 [3 favorites]