America's most political food.
May 3, 2017 7:15 AM Subscribe
The founder of a popular South Carolina barbecue restaurant was a white supremacist. Now that his children have taken over, is it O.K. to eat there?
I'm just going to throw it out there that, if you've never tried South Carolina mustard-style barbecue sauce, it's one of the most delicious things I've ever had. I just buy the generic version from my local supermarket, and I'll probably never actually go to SC again, let alone a Piggie Park, but if you enjoy food, you owe it to yourself to try yellow BBQ sauce.
posted by kevinbelt at 7:42 AM on May 3, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by kevinbelt at 7:42 AM on May 3, 2017 [4 favorites]
I find it interesting that the author of the article only raises privilege in regards to not having to think about race, and not in the sense that Piggie Park's entire existence, and therefore the new generation's use of the name and reputation and infrastructure (such as it was) is pretty privileged itself. If you inherit a business, then you inherit the good things and the bad about it. So no, it's not okay to eat there, because you're (indirectly and asynchronously) supporting lifelong racist Maurice Bessinger's efforts to provide for his kids. If they don't create a greater gap between themselves and their lifelong racist father, then they haven't learned anything besides being slightly better at PR.
posted by Etrigan at 8:00 AM on May 3, 2017 [47 favorites]
posted by Etrigan at 8:00 AM on May 3, 2017 [47 favorites]
It's always amazing to me when white people (or men, to cite the other common example) explain that they don't think about racism (or sexism) because it "doesn't affect" them.
Of course it affects you. If you swim in that, all day long, every day, just marinating, and you don't fight against it, it gets inside you and turns you into a monster. You don't get to tag out and sit on the sidelines. That's not how being a person in the world works. That's not how power and privilege work. And if you think that, now you're just a delusional monster with a penchant for gaslighting. You've just changed the flavor of monstrosity, that's all.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:06 AM on May 3, 2017 [64 favorites]
Of course it affects you. If you swim in that, all day long, every day, just marinating, and you don't fight against it, it gets inside you and turns you into a monster. You don't get to tag out and sit on the sidelines. That's not how being a person in the world works. That's not how power and privilege work. And if you think that, now you're just a delusional monster with a penchant for gaslighting. You've just changed the flavor of monstrosity, that's all.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:06 AM on May 3, 2017 [64 favorites]
Holy smokes. I'm glad I know about this (Canadian here, eh?) now so I can ensure I never eat there. Gross.
posted by Dressed to Kill at 8:14 AM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Dressed to Kill at 8:14 AM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
Especially not when there are tons of better, black-owned BBQ joints in the area.
I'll be there for the eclipse -- give me some names.
posted by Etrigan at 8:17 AM on May 3, 2017 [13 favorites]
I'll be there for the eclipse -- give me some names.
posted by Etrigan at 8:17 AM on May 3, 2017 [13 favorites]
Is anyone else distracted with the super inappropriate matching of the cartoon with this article?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:30 AM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:30 AM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
(That's the case with every single New Yorker article and it drives me crazy.)
posted by Foci for Analysis at 8:32 AM on May 3, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Foci for Analysis at 8:32 AM on May 3, 2017 [6 favorites]
Look, I'm a Southerner. I get the complexity. I have to love difficult people. And, indeed, I have eaten some good sandwiches in my time.
But a sandwich cannot be that damned good. You can walk another few blocks for one that's fine, and that didn't come, ultimately, from Maurice Bessinger. It's not his children's fault that his father built his fortune partly on white supremacist sentiment. That doesn't mean they're free to ignore it. If they went hard in the paint for social justice, the way Penzeys Spices does, that would be a different story.
posted by Countess Elena at 8:36 AM on May 3, 2017 [49 favorites]
But a sandwich cannot be that damned good. You can walk another few blocks for one that's fine, and that didn't come, ultimately, from Maurice Bessinger. It's not his children's fault that his father built his fortune partly on white supremacist sentiment. That doesn't mean they're free to ignore it. If they went hard in the paint for social justice, the way Penzeys Spices does, that would be a different story.
posted by Countess Elena at 8:36 AM on May 3, 2017 [49 favorites]
I've always heard that the best BBQ in any given state comes from the gas station down the road. Which is probably also owned by a white supremacist, I guess, but if you visit enough gas stations maybe you can find one that isn't.
posted by tobascodagama at 8:52 AM on May 3, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by tobascodagama at 8:52 AM on May 3, 2017 [3 favorites]
Etrigan: There is no 'the place'. Just hunt around a bit and you'll find a good spot.
posted by robotmachine at 8:56 AM on May 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by robotmachine at 8:56 AM on May 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
This paragraph is a fucking doozy, and probably says everything you need to know. The speaker is Lake Erie High, who is somehow not a school, but rather president of the South Carolina Barbecue Association.
“He and Strom Thurmond were talking about all-natural thirty years ago,” he said, which seemed a bit like remembering Oswald Mosley for his advocacy of brown bread. I asked whether he thought Maurice’s political legacy posed a problem. “It wasn’t nearly as bitter as modern day makes it seem,” he said. He went on to talk about the trouble with racially interbred societies, the genetic basis of criminality, and his belief that the South should secede.
Also Lloyd Bessinger's assertion that his father was just a Southerner who liked to read about history is pretty much an assertion that he is a white supremacist, no? I mean, if your idea of "reading about history" includes hanging up Confederate flags and handing out racist pamphlets and writing racist things in your memoir, then you're probably complicit.
posted by uncleozzy at 8:58 AM on May 3, 2017 [42 favorites]
“He and Strom Thurmond were talking about all-natural thirty years ago,” he said, which seemed a bit like remembering Oswald Mosley for his advocacy of brown bread. I asked whether he thought Maurice’s political legacy posed a problem. “It wasn’t nearly as bitter as modern day makes it seem,” he said. He went on to talk about the trouble with racially interbred societies, the genetic basis of criminality, and his belief that the South should secede.
Also Lloyd Bessinger's assertion that his father was just a Southerner who liked to read about history is pretty much an assertion that he is a white supremacist, no? I mean, if your idea of "reading about history" includes hanging up Confederate flags and handing out racist pamphlets and writing racist things in your memoir, then you're probably complicit.
posted by uncleozzy at 8:58 AM on May 3, 2017 [42 favorites]
No of course not and here's why:
“Dad liked politics,” Lloyd, who serves as the public face of the operation, told a reporter. “That’s not something we’re interested in doing. We want to serve great barbecue.”
Their spokesman is asserting that advocating for white supremacy is "politics" and that's now not years ago.
posted by rdr at 8:59 AM on May 3, 2017 [49 favorites]
“Dad liked politics,” Lloyd, who serves as the public face of the operation, told a reporter. “That’s not something we’re interested in doing. We want to serve great barbecue.”
Their spokesman is asserting that advocating for white supremacy is "politics" and that's now not years ago.
posted by rdr at 8:59 AM on May 3, 2017 [49 favorites]
Is anyone else distracted with the super inappropriate matching of the cartoon with this article?
The cat keeping the burglar subdued one, or the drop-your-daughter-off-at-work-day one?
I kind of liked the cat one.
posted by yhbc at 8:59 AM on May 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
The cat keeping the burglar subdued one, or the drop-your-daughter-off-at-work-day one?
I kind of liked the cat one.
posted by yhbc at 8:59 AM on May 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
America: the gas station down the road is probably also owned by a white supremacist, I guess, but if you visit enough gas stations maybe you can find one that isn't.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 9:02 AM on May 3, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by MCMikeNamara at 9:02 AM on May 3, 2017 [20 favorites]
Do you mean the pig illustration? I thought it was well done. Pigs are possibly the most violent animals we generally raise for food in this culture, and the illustration plays well on pork's unsettling resemblance to human flesh.
Also, my understanding is that the quality of Southern pork cookery is itself culturally appropriated from African-American cooks, enslaved or otherwise, because until the late 19th century, pork was declasse -- white people who wished to impress served fowl, beef, mutton or lamb, and did not initially lavish care and attention on pork. (They ate it, of course, but there you are.) So the menace in the illustration, the preparation of an arguably stolen food, fits as well.
posted by Countess Elena at 9:11 AM on May 3, 2017 [10 favorites]
Also, my understanding is that the quality of Southern pork cookery is itself culturally appropriated from African-American cooks, enslaved or otherwise, because until the late 19th century, pork was declasse -- white people who wished to impress served fowl, beef, mutton or lamb, and did not initially lavish care and attention on pork. (They ate it, of course, but there you are.) So the menace in the illustration, the preparation of an arguably stolen food, fits as well.
posted by Countess Elena at 9:11 AM on May 3, 2017 [10 favorites]
"Paul and Lloyd, and he's got a daughter whose name I forget, cute girl."
It's like misogynist sprinkles on top of a racist sundae. Sigh.
posted by spinturtle at 9:11 AM on May 3, 2017 [43 favorites]
It's like misogynist sprinkles on top of a racist sundae. Sigh.
posted by spinturtle at 9:11 AM on May 3, 2017 [43 favorites]
the gas station down the road is probably also owned by a white supremacist, I guess, but if you visit enough gas stations maybe you can find one that isn't
Hint: if you see a large display of Ray Stevens cassettes for sale, keep on driving.
posted by Atom Eyes at 9:13 AM on May 3, 2017 [11 favorites]
Hint: if you see a large display of Ray Stevens cassettes for sale, keep on driving.
posted by Atom Eyes at 9:13 AM on May 3, 2017 [11 favorites]
Also, my understanding is that the quality of Southern pork cookery is itself culturally appropriated from African-American cooks, enslaved or otherwise,
Isn't this sort of related to the origins of the old saying, "eating high on the hog?"
posted by bwvol at 9:14 AM on May 3, 2017 [3 favorites]
Isn't this sort of related to the origins of the old saying, "eating high on the hog?"
posted by bwvol at 9:14 AM on May 3, 2017 [3 favorites]
Contrast the FPP with what a black person had to go through to sell some barbecue in North Carolina back in the day:
Jack Cobb and Son Barbecue Place
"The word spread around the community about Jack’s good ‘cue and white citizens wanted to buy Jack’s barbecue but would not come to Jack’s place to get it. Ever the entrepreneur Jack took his ‘cue to a white friend’s home and this man sold Jack’s barbecue for him."
posted by needled at 9:16 AM on May 3, 2017 [13 favorites]
Jack Cobb and Son Barbecue Place
"The word spread around the community about Jack’s good ‘cue and white citizens wanted to buy Jack’s barbecue but would not come to Jack’s place to get it. Ever the entrepreneur Jack took his ‘cue to a white friend’s home and this man sold Jack’s barbecue for him."
posted by needled at 9:16 AM on May 3, 2017 [13 favorites]
Good article on the Bessinger clan from The New York Times a while back: A Confederacy of Sauces.
posted by TedW at 9:22 AM on May 3, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by TedW at 9:22 AM on May 3, 2017 [5 favorites]
Choosing not to get into politics while personally (and substantially financially) benefiting from centuries of racially motivated politics is basically the height of white privilege.
So I guess that would be a hard "no", then.
posted by tocts at 9:28 AM on May 3, 2017 [13 favorites]
So I guess that would be a hard "no", then.
posted by tocts at 9:28 AM on May 3, 2017 [13 favorites]
I would have to drive past this and eat elsewhere, personally speaking.
posted by IraMency at 9:29 AM on May 3, 2017
posted by IraMency at 9:29 AM on May 3, 2017
Also, my understanding is that the quality of Southern pork cookery is itself culturally appropriated from African-American cooks, enslaved or otherwise
Literally everything that is unique and admirable about Southern culture--the cuisine and the music, to name two prominent examples--was invented by black people.
posted by Faint of Butt at 9:33 AM on May 3, 2017 [38 favorites]
Literally everything that is unique and admirable about Southern culture--the cuisine and the music, to name two prominent examples--was invented by black people.
posted by Faint of Butt at 9:33 AM on May 3, 2017 [38 favorites]
, my understanding is that the quality of Southern pork cookery is itself culturally appropriated from African-American cooks, enslaved or otherwise,
I agree - I thought it might at least go into the historical indebtedness of every white barbecue king, but that's another chapter of a longer book, I suppose. Barbecue is a very controversial area of food studies, but this origin does remain the historical consensus - and that it comes out of the Caribbean.
This letter to the editor in the following issue of the mag summed it up for me:
I agree - I thought it might at least go into the historical indebtedness of every white barbecue king, but that's another chapter of a longer book, I suppose. Barbecue is a very controversial area of food studies, but this origin does remain the historical consensus - and that it comes out of the Caribbean.
This letter to the editor in the following issue of the mag summed it up for me:
Maurice Bessinger’s son Lloyd claims that he doesn’t know how he can make amends for his father’s racism. “I’m not objecting to doing that,” he told Collins. “I just need to know what that is.” If you claim to have good intentions, then do something good. How hard is that? Contribute to a scholarship fund. Canvass for a voter-registration drive in an African-American neighborhood. Give money to the N.A.A.C.P. Donate resources to help restore black churches that have been attacked. Join the action to remove the last Confederate flags. There’s a very long list of things that Bessinger could do. It doesn’t take much imagination to make amends, but it does take genuine good will.posted by Miko at 9:34 AM on May 3, 2017 [42 favorites]
I'm gonna go with "no," only for this:
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 9:39 AM on May 3, 2017 [27 favorites]
In 2007, Bessinger, who suffered from Alzheimer's at the end of his life, handed the business over two his two sons, Paul and Lloyd, and a daughter, Debbie. In the months before his death, in 2014, they took down the flags and got rid of the slavery pamphlets.Seven years after they took over to take down the Confederate flags and remove the pamphlets asserting that slavery was a blessing for the slaves? Screw that. If they did it immediately after they took over, I might be in the "maybe yes" camp, but not when it takes them that long, and without any very public repudiation of their old precepts.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 9:39 AM on May 3, 2017 [27 favorites]
Ive never eaten at Piggie Park but I did grow up in the bbq business. . . the fact that they are most well known for their: a. sauce, b. racism is not, to me, any kind of endorsement.
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 9:39 AM on May 3, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 9:39 AM on May 3, 2017 [7 favorites]
I didn't even need to click through to know what restaurant they were discussing. I'm not from SC, but I lived in West Columbia for about 7 years and had a lot of non-southern friends visit me during this time. Every one of them who had heard about Maurice's wanted me to take them to Piggy Park - there was this sick fascination with the place as sort of the "southern culture" equivalent of a terrible accident you couldn't look away from. Not just the confederate flag out front, but the pamphlets in Piggy Park were so screamingly racist - I felt like a tour guide to the very lowest the south had to offer. Thinking back on it now, the whole experience was degrading to all involved.
I'm all for letting Piggy Park die out.
(and not that it matters - at ALL - but there are far better BBQ places in the area. Little Pigs and Hite's all the way)
posted by DingoMutt at 9:41 AM on May 3, 2017 [6 favorites]
I'm all for letting Piggy Park die out.
(and not that it matters - at ALL - but there are far better BBQ places in the area. Little Pigs and Hite's all the way)
posted by DingoMutt at 9:41 AM on May 3, 2017 [6 favorites]
the way Penzeys Spices does
Wait, does Penzeys have a dark history I don't know about?
posted by quaking fajita at 9:41 AM on May 3, 2017
Wait, does Penzeys have a dark history I don't know about?
posted by quaking fajita at 9:41 AM on May 3, 2017
Literally everything that is unique and admirable about Southern culture--the cuisine and the music, to name two prominent examples--was invented by black people.
that's a great zinger but what about the Appalachian folk music traditions, which come from the British Isles?
posted by thelonius at 9:41 AM on May 3, 2017 [7 favorites]
that's a great zinger but what about the Appalachian folk music traditions, which come from the British Isles?
posted by thelonius at 9:41 AM on May 3, 2017 [7 favorites]
quaking fajita - Penzeys has been super out and loud about opposing the bigotry and xenophobia of our current regime.
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 9:44 AM on May 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 9:44 AM on May 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
From the article, after a long discussion of boycotts and losing shelf space in retailers for his sauce resulting in the business shrinking 98%, and Maurice closing some restaurants doubling-down in the rest (in early 2000's):
In the wake of the controversy, the Bessingers were able to cultivate an alternative clientele. ... others showed up explicitly to support his cause... a state senator, began stocking Bessinger’s sauce at CSA Galleries, a Confederate-memorabilia store ...posted by achrise at 9:54 AM on May 3, 2017 [4 favorites]
what about the Appalachian folk music traditions, which come from the British Isles?
...but not without the influence of African-American music and percussion, and especially the African/African-American development of the banjo, an instrument with no European history.
posted by Miko at 9:55 AM on May 3, 2017 [37 favorites]
...but not without the influence of African-American music and percussion, and especially the African/African-American development of the banjo, an instrument with no European history.
posted by Miko at 9:55 AM on May 3, 2017 [37 favorites]
there was this sick fascination with the place as sort of the "southern culture" equivalent of a terrible accident you couldn't look away from
Cf. South of the Border
I think a lot of it is a desire to absolve themselves of their own guilt by making a big deal over people who wear their white supremacist belief on their sleeves rather than holding it close to their chest.
that's a great zinger but what about the Appalachian folk music traditions, which come from the British Isles?
Appalachia as a region covers a lot of area, not all of it in the South. Culturally, it's pretty distinct from what is recognised as "The South". Half of Appalachia stayed in the Union, after all.
posted by tobascodagama at 9:56 AM on May 3, 2017 [15 favorites]
Cf. South of the Border
I think a lot of it is a desire to absolve themselves of their own guilt by making a big deal over people who wear their white supremacist belief on their sleeves rather than holding it close to their chest.
that's a great zinger but what about the Appalachian folk music traditions, which come from the British Isles?
Appalachia as a region covers a lot of area, not all of it in the South. Culturally, it's pretty distinct from what is recognised as "The South". Half of Appalachia stayed in the Union, after all.
posted by tobascodagama at 9:56 AM on May 3, 2017 [15 favorites]
I'm with DevilsAdvocate on this --- Maurice's children took over the restaurants in 2007, but they made no move to remove the Confederate flag or the racist pamphlets until 2014, so basically, yes they were supporting their father's long and hate-filled stance.
Since the article says Maurice died just months after they finally trashed the flag and literature (and I use that term loosely), it makes me think his sons and daughter waited until he was no longer mobile-enough to actually stop by one of the restaurants; I'm quite sure the only reason they finally did it was public relations and suckering in customers not aware of their family's history, not an actual repudiation of racism.
posted by easily confused at 9:57 AM on May 3, 2017 [8 favorites]
Since the article says Maurice died just months after they finally trashed the flag and literature (and I use that term loosely), it makes me think his sons and daughter waited until he was no longer mobile-enough to actually stop by one of the restaurants; I'm quite sure the only reason they finally did it was public relations and suckering in customers not aware of their family's history, not an actual repudiation of racism.
posted by easily confused at 9:57 AM on May 3, 2017 [8 favorites]
It's interesting reading this article just after coming across Junebaby, a new Southern food restaurant in Seattle run by an African American chef, that is very overt in the role of black culture in Southern food. In fact, the opening words of its website are "Southern food's humble beginnings embarked when West Africans were taken from their home and were forced across the middle passage to North America." Once said that way, it's hard to go back to milquetoast descriptions.
posted by Schismatic at 10:13 AM on May 3, 2017 [23 favorites]
posted by Schismatic at 10:13 AM on May 3, 2017 [23 favorites]
That doesn't mean they're free to ignore it. If they went hard in the paint for social justice, the way Penzeys Spices does, that would be a different story.
We must be on the same wavelength, Countess Elena, because that's exactly my take: if the business they inherited was built on racism, and they're now the direct beneficiaries of the profits of that hatred, then they should have the decency to face that, own it, and make some kind of meaningful reparations within their community.
They're not personally morally responsible for the specific racist acts of their ancestors, but they do share in the collective social responsibility that comes with belonging to a family and being members of a larger social community that has given them material and social advantages not everybody gets to share in equally by virtue of nothing more meritocratic or aligned with justice and fairness than accident of birth.
It's not like this is some ambiguous case where their distant ancestors from many generations ago profited from slavery with no case to be made that those historical crimes gave the current generation of the family unfair personal advantages.
If they won't take responsibility for the legacy of harm they're inheriting along with the good, they're not taking full responsibility and they're making themselves complicit in perpetuating that harm through indifference and the destructive and socially corrupting anti-morality of the "got mine and that's what counts" philosophy of contemporary American political conservatism.
It's not my place to say they ought not be in business at all, and I believe everybody deserves a shot to make their own way in life regardless of who or what their parents were, but societies don't work with no sense of collective responsibility whatsoever, and in this case, it seems pretty clear to me that ownership comes with some heavy responsibilities beyond profit motive and preserving whatever public good or value their particular recipe for barbeque sandwiches and coleslaw might bring to society.
posted by saulgoodman at 10:19 AM on May 3, 2017 [6 favorites]
We must be on the same wavelength, Countess Elena, because that's exactly my take: if the business they inherited was built on racism, and they're now the direct beneficiaries of the profits of that hatred, then they should have the decency to face that, own it, and make some kind of meaningful reparations within their community.
They're not personally morally responsible for the specific racist acts of their ancestors, but they do share in the collective social responsibility that comes with belonging to a family and being members of a larger social community that has given them material and social advantages not everybody gets to share in equally by virtue of nothing more meritocratic or aligned with justice and fairness than accident of birth.
It's not like this is some ambiguous case where their distant ancestors from many generations ago profited from slavery with no case to be made that those historical crimes gave the current generation of the family unfair personal advantages.
If they won't take responsibility for the legacy of harm they're inheriting along with the good, they're not taking full responsibility and they're making themselves complicit in perpetuating that harm through indifference and the destructive and socially corrupting anti-morality of the "got mine and that's what counts" philosophy of contemporary American political conservatism.
It's not my place to say they ought not be in business at all, and I believe everybody deserves a shot to make their own way in life regardless of who or what their parents were, but societies don't work with no sense of collective responsibility whatsoever, and in this case, it seems pretty clear to me that ownership comes with some heavy responsibilities beyond profit motive and preserving whatever public good or value their particular recipe for barbeque sandwiches and coleslaw might bring to society.
posted by saulgoodman at 10:19 AM on May 3, 2017 [6 favorites]
It's hard not to see BBQ as an exact parallel to music:
Food of the Enslaved: Barbecue, featuring Michael Twitty.
I think it's fascinating how important Afro-culinary traditions are to "Southern Cooking" in the context of this discussion. There's a lot not being said here.
posted by bonehead at 10:21 AM on May 3, 2017 [7 favorites]
Food of the Enslaved: Barbecue, featuring Michael Twitty.
I think it's fascinating how important Afro-culinary traditions are to "Southern Cooking" in the context of this discussion. There's a lot not being said here.
posted by bonehead at 10:21 AM on May 3, 2017 [7 favorites]
Since schismatic mentioned him (well, his new restaurant Junebaby) it may be worth reading this Lucky Peach (RIP) interview with Eduardo Jordan about being black in fancy kitchens.
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 10:26 AM on May 3, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 10:26 AM on May 3, 2017 [5 favorites]
This business of hate pamphlets and rebel flags in a damn bar-b-q joint? That's a special kind of toxic madness that is all too alive here in the Carolinas. No amount of vinegar sauce can compensate for it.
posted by Bob Regular at 10:35 AM on May 3, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by Bob Regular at 10:35 AM on May 3, 2017 [9 favorites]
I think a lot of it is a desire to absolve themselves of their own guilt by making a big deal over people who wear their white supremacist belief on their sleeves rather than holding it close to their chest.
It's almost as though the tendency to see white supremacy as something done by other white people (typically those residing a safe distance away, be it geographically, socioeconomically, politically, and/or temperamentally) is as old as white supremacy itself.
posted by non canadian guy at 10:48 AM on May 3, 2017 [7 favorites]
It's almost as though the tendency to see white supremacy as something done by other white people (typically those residing a safe distance away, be it geographically, socioeconomically, politically, and/or temperamentally) is as old as white supremacy itself.
posted by non canadian guy at 10:48 AM on May 3, 2017 [7 favorites]
I'm pissed that my local African-American-owned BBQ restaurant closed after bland, focus-grouped, corporate Dickey's opened a store nearby. Their food was the best BBQ I've had in Los Angeles that wasn't explicitly Carolina BBQ. (Yes, better than Dr. Hogly Wogly's or The Bear Pit.)
The unit isn't empty and still has all the appliances, furnishings and decor in place, so for now at least I can still pretend that Roger's Rib Shack is just remodeling or something.
posted by infinitewindow at 10:50 AM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
The unit isn't empty and still has all the appliances, furnishings and decor in place, so for now at least I can still pretend that Roger's Rib Shack is just remodeling or something.
posted by infinitewindow at 10:50 AM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
I'll be there for the eclipse -- give me some names.
Rodney Scott's Barbeque outside Charleston. It's the only place I can think of I'd go out of the way for. Mr Scott smokes beautiful whole hogs.
Side story, in the late eighties, Maurice's opened a take out place in my town in upstate SC. First, it was disgusting. Second, if I recall correctly, it was shut down because they were selling cocaine at the drive through window. I assume it wasn't CIA funded.
posted by rock swoon has no past at 11:05 AM on May 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
Rodney Scott's Barbeque outside Charleston. It's the only place I can think of I'd go out of the way for. Mr Scott smokes beautiful whole hogs.
Side story, in the late eighties, Maurice's opened a take out place in my town in upstate SC. First, it was disgusting. Second, if I recall correctly, it was shut down because they were selling cocaine at the drive through window. I assume it wasn't CIA funded.
posted by rock swoon has no past at 11:05 AM on May 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
Maurice Bessinger's kids have benefitted from their father's societal harm. They would need to do public, widely-disseminated restorative engagement with the communities that were harmed by his outrageous behavior (which includes dragging down white people by perpetuating bigotry as well as the litany of social and interpersonal offenses and horrors that black people are exposed to & endure). It will take decades to live their way to a better business-as-a-member of society.
The kids should hold a few Samoan circles to listen, as a starting point, and get a few ideas.
The folks who swarmed to Chik-Fil-A will likely not let this difficult conversation happen to make progress toward healing.
Most will take the expeditious route of finding better food elsewhere, as in, better for most people's sense of personal justice.
posted by childofTethys at 11:26 AM on May 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
The kids should hold a few Samoan circles to listen, as a starting point, and get a few ideas.
The folks who swarmed to Chik-Fil-A will likely not let this difficult conversation happen to make progress toward healing.
Most will take the expeditious route of finding better food elsewhere, as in, better for most people's sense of personal justice.
posted by childofTethys at 11:26 AM on May 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
I don't really know a lot about BBQ but the history is fascinating, especially the way BBQ has been carved out of southern food tradition as a manly sport in pursuit of trophies. Thanks for posting.
Their food was the best BBQ I've had in Los Angeles that wasn't explicitly Carolina BBQ.
RIP Dem Bones.
Wait, does Penzeys have a dark history I don't know about?
I hope not. I thought theh was just being held up as an example of good corporate citizenship. (Quit making me cry with your emails, Penzy's!)
posted by Room 641-A at 11:46 AM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
Their food was the best BBQ I've had in Los Angeles that wasn't explicitly Carolina BBQ.
RIP Dem Bones.
Wait, does Penzeys have a dark history I don't know about?
I hope not. I thought theh was just being held up as an example of good corporate citizenship. (Quit making me cry with your emails, Penzy's!)
posted by Room 641-A at 11:46 AM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
Geno's Steaks in Philadelphia 'caused controversy when they added a "This is America: Speak English" sign.
I refused to eat there, in protest of the casual racism the sign promoted.
Joey Vento, the owner, died a few years back and asked his kids to keep the sign up. That sign came down a couple years back.
I still won't eat there, partially out of principle, partly because I don't live in Philadelphia anymore, but mostly because their cheesesteaks suck.
If the food were good, it'd be a lot more difficult. If the food at Piggie Park is as good as they say, I'd be torn. Hell, I still feel guilty when I eat at Chick-Fil-A despite being a queer man. (I don't do it often, though.)
posted by SansPoint at 11:49 AM on May 3, 2017
I refused to eat there, in protest of the casual racism the sign promoted.
Joey Vento, the owner, died a few years back and asked his kids to keep the sign up. That sign came down a couple years back.
I still won't eat there, partially out of principle, partly because I don't live in Philadelphia anymore, but mostly because their cheesesteaks suck.
If the food were good, it'd be a lot more difficult. If the food at Piggie Park is as good as they say, I'd be torn. Hell, I still feel guilty when I eat at Chick-Fil-A despite being a queer man. (I don't do it often, though.)
posted by SansPoint at 11:49 AM on May 3, 2017
I'll be there for the eclipse
Be prepared for Pat Robertson to divert the eclipse to Georgia by prayer
posted by thelonius at 11:55 AM on May 3, 2017 [3 favorites]
Be prepared for Pat Robertson to divert the eclipse to Georgia by prayer
posted by thelonius at 11:55 AM on May 3, 2017 [3 favorites]
I swear this is a double, but I can't find the previous post.
posted by ArgentCorvid at 12:01 PM on May 3, 2017
posted by ArgentCorvid at 12:01 PM on May 3, 2017
Rodney Scott's Barbeque outside Charleston. It's the only place I can think of I'd go out of the way for. Mr Scott smokes beautiful whole hogs.
There's a Scott's in Charlestown now!
posted by ghharr at 12:08 PM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
There's a Scott's in Charlestown now!
posted by ghharr at 12:08 PM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
My mother was a waitress at one of these places in the early 70's, (as a young hippy putting herself through nursing school). She used to talk about Mr Bessinger and I got the impression he was a creeper; she eventually quit and went to work at Wendy's and it was better there even without tips. I don't think I'll tell her about this as she's under a lot of stress and would not want to think about supporting something this terrible.
posted by buildmyworld at 12:09 PM on May 3, 2017
posted by buildmyworld at 12:09 PM on May 3, 2017
It's just mind-boggling that someone who owns a restaurant right next to a Confederate flag could wonder why they didn't get many black customers.
That being said, the fact they're actually doing something about it deserves credit. We'll get a lot farther encouraging their actions in the present over deriding their blindness in the past.
Which gets back to the point of the article, I suppose.
posted by Big Al 8000 at 12:54 PM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
That being said, the fact they're actually doing something about it deserves credit. We'll get a lot farther encouraging their actions in the present over deriding their blindness in the past.
Which gets back to the point of the article, I suppose.
posted by Big Al 8000 at 12:54 PM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
I'll be there for the eclipse -- give me some names.
True BBQ is excellent (best hash around) and Big T's is not to be missed.
posted by petri at 1:04 PM on May 3, 2017
True BBQ is excellent (best hash around) and Big T's is not to be missed.
posted by petri at 1:04 PM on May 3, 2017
For those asking about Penzey's, I think the original comment was saying the Bessinger family could start making amends by going in the direction Penzey's has. Specifically, the CEO of Penzey's sent a public email to his customer newsletter post-election saying that "voters 'just committed the biggest act of racism' since segregation".
In other news, I have a Penzey's delivery arriving today and I am so excited!
posted by offalark at 1:05 PM on May 3, 2017 [5 favorites]
In other news, I have a Penzey's delivery arriving today and I am so excited!
posted by offalark at 1:05 PM on May 3, 2017 [5 favorites]
For those who aren't familiar, Penzey's has a catalog they put out with family stories and recipes featuring a few families every issue that use Penzey's spices. Penzey's put out an entire queer issue of their catalog after marriage equality was passed AND they almost always have a queer family in every issue of their catalog without comment. Also, they make a point of having racially diverse families.
posted by Sophie1 at 1:20 PM on May 3, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by Sophie1 at 1:20 PM on May 3, 2017 [13 favorites]
If the food at Piggie Park is as good as they say, I'd be torn.
Thing is, it really isn't. Not saying it's bad, but there are several others within a five or ten minute drive from the Piggie Park that are easily as good, if not better, and a half dozen or so in the wider area. Sweatman's, in Holly Hill, is about an hour away from the Piggie Park, and along with Scott's it is widely regarded as one of the best bbq joints in the state. It isn't as if South Carolina, or the South Carolina midlands is wanting for good bbq and a lot of it comes without the baggage.
I've eaten Maurice's a couple of times at events, but I've never willingly patronized the place and it'd take a lot more than some cosmetic changes to make me start.
posted by octobersurprise at 1:34 PM on May 3, 2017 [3 favorites]
Thing is, it really isn't. Not saying it's bad, but there are several others within a five or ten minute drive from the Piggie Park that are easily as good, if not better, and a half dozen or so in the wider area. Sweatman's, in Holly Hill, is about an hour away from the Piggie Park, and along with Scott's it is widely regarded as one of the best bbq joints in the state. It isn't as if South Carolina, or the South Carolina midlands is wanting for good bbq and a lot of it comes without the baggage.
I've eaten Maurice's a couple of times at events, but I've never willingly patronized the place and it'd take a lot more than some cosmetic changes to make me start.
posted by octobersurprise at 1:34 PM on May 3, 2017 [3 favorites]
Eat where you like. Just, don't be surprised if you still eat there - or start eating there - that others equate that with supporting racism.
I won't tell you where or what not to eat, just understand - from a purely foodie anthropological perspective - this is way way worse than eating foie gras.
posted by Nanukthedog at 2:20 PM on May 3, 2017 [6 favorites]
I won't tell you where or what not to eat, just understand - from a purely foodie anthropological perspective - this is way way worse than eating foie gras.
posted by Nanukthedog at 2:20 PM on May 3, 2017 [6 favorites]
"It's just mind-boggling that someone who owns a restaurant right next to a Confederate flag could wonder why they didn't get many black customers."The way this is written is seems a lot less like the owner was somehow actually that blind, and a lot more like the author awkwardly presented it that way to create a narrative flow to the paragraph that ends up super misleading.
posted by Blasdelb at 2:50 PM on May 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
Joey Vento, the owner, died a few years back and asked his kids to keep the sign up. That sign came down a couple years back.
I still won't eat there, partially out of principle, partly because I don't live in Philadelphia anymore, but mostly because their cheesesteaks suck.
In other Philadelphia-racism-and-cheesesteak news, because that's just how we roll -- a certain steak shop in the Northeast used to have a virulently racist name. It bought out a couple years back, and the new owner changed the name which was LITERALLY A SLUR. There was great outrage, but the new owner is laughing all the way to bank with lines out of the door for the same cheese steak at 150% of the old price at a new location that they would never, ever, ever have been able to be successful in before with the old name.
We eat there at least once a month, partially because I like to reward people for doing non-shitty things, but also because it's a damn fine cheese steak.
posted by joyceanmachine at 3:54 PM on May 3, 2017 [7 favorites]
I still won't eat there, partially out of principle, partly because I don't live in Philadelphia anymore, but mostly because their cheesesteaks suck.
In other Philadelphia-racism-and-cheesesteak news, because that's just how we roll -- a certain steak shop in the Northeast used to have a virulently racist name. It bought out a couple years back, and the new owner changed the name which was LITERALLY A SLUR. There was great outrage, but the new owner is laughing all the way to bank with lines out of the door for the same cheese steak at 150% of the old price at a new location that they would never, ever, ever have been able to be successful in before with the old name.
We eat there at least once a month, partially because I like to reward people for doing non-shitty things, but also because it's a damn fine cheese steak.
posted by joyceanmachine at 3:54 PM on May 3, 2017 [7 favorites]
Really, the Darases would appear to be doing the bare minimum by trying to get the flag removed. They may not have known what they were buying, in total, but they're there now. It's not unfair, it's just the residue of the South having waited as long as it has to account for this shit.
posted by rhizome at 6:38 PM on May 3, 2017
posted by rhizome at 6:38 PM on May 3, 2017
one of the few restaurants in the country to still cook entirely over hickory wood, using no electricity or gas.
Nonsense.
posted by fogovonslack at 10:03 PM on May 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
Nonsense.
posted by fogovonslack at 10:03 PM on May 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
...but not without the influence of African-American music and percussion, and especially the African/African-American development of the banjo, an instrument with no European history
You also don't have early jazz without European insturments like the snare drum.
posted by thelonius at 1:13 AM on May 4, 2017
You also don't have early jazz without European insturments like the snare drum.
posted by thelonius at 1:13 AM on May 4, 2017
There was also Beaner's Coffee in Michigan, which changed their name to Biggby when they got into the corporate franchise game. They claim they hadn't been aware of the common meaning of the the name "Beaner" when they started, which on the one hand is plausible, having been started by locals in whitey-white central Michigan before the web was a convenient information tool. And on the other hand, well, the first store opened in 1995 and they stuck with the name for 12 years and opening half a dozen locations, so there were a lot of opportunities for them to act appropriately every time somebody asked them, "oh hey, that name you picked, was that *really* your best idea?"
posted by ardgedee at 4:12 AM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by ardgedee at 4:12 AM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
You also don't have early jazz without European insturments like the snare drum.
That's great but it's a different topic, isn't it? Musical hybridization is normal in the US, and Appalachian/old-time music is no more a pure European tradition than jazz is.
posted by Miko at 7:26 AM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
That's great but it's a different topic, isn't it? Musical hybridization is normal in the US, and Appalachian/old-time music is no more a pure European tradition than jazz is.
posted by Miko at 7:26 AM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
quaking fajita - Penzeys has been super out and loud about opposing the bigotry and xenophobia of our current regime.
For those asking about Penzey's, I think the original comment was saying the Bessinger family could start making amends by going in the direction Penzey's has. Specifically, the CEO of Penzey's sent a public email to his customer newsletter post-election saying that "voters 'just committed the biggest act of racism' since segregation".
For those who aren't familiar, Penzey's has a catalog they put out with family stories and recipes featuring a few families every issue that use Penzey's spices. Penzey's put out an entire queer issue of their catalog after marriage equality was passed AND they almost always have a queer family in every issue of their catalog without comment. Also, they make a point of having racially diverse families.
Exactly. It doesn't make marketing or moral sense to not do these things. "Taking down the Confederate flag" is the equivalent of "stopped beating wife". It's a step in the right direction, but nowhere near good enough, and there is a restaurant down the fricken block showing exactly how to do this stuff right.
posted by saysthis at 11:31 PM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
For those asking about Penzey's, I think the original comment was saying the Bessinger family could start making amends by going in the direction Penzey's has. Specifically, the CEO of Penzey's sent a public email to his customer newsletter post-election saying that "voters 'just committed the biggest act of racism' since segregation".
For those who aren't familiar, Penzey's has a catalog they put out with family stories and recipes featuring a few families every issue that use Penzey's spices. Penzey's put out an entire queer issue of their catalog after marriage equality was passed AND they almost always have a queer family in every issue of their catalog without comment. Also, they make a point of having racially diverse families.
Exactly. It doesn't make marketing or moral sense to not do these things. "Taking down the Confederate flag" is the equivalent of "stopped beating wife". It's a step in the right direction, but nowhere near good enough, and there is a restaurant down the fricken block showing exactly how to do this stuff right.
posted by saysthis at 11:31 PM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
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