Avril, like Paul, yet lives
May 24, 2017 7:47 AM   Subscribe

Teen Vogue covers the latest weird thing to go viral: Avril Lavigne died years ago and has been replaced by a doppelganger named Melissa. But they take the opportunity to educate as well as shrugging at the weirdos who spend too much time on this sort of thing:
It's a premise that assumes a lot about Avril's mental health based on, well, basically nothing, and that is problematic because we should never assume anything about anyone's mental health.
posted by Etrigan (51 comments total) 11 users marked this as a favorite
 
I love this completely, but if the fact that she's not dressing like this first picture anymore is evidence, there are a ton more doppelgangers around than we all suspected.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 7:54 AM on May 24, 2017 [4 favorites]


It's like a thinly spread, slightly contagious Capgras delusion. People have a strong emotional link to somebody; down the road they lose that emotional link, or the emotions grow less powerful; their brains, not knowing how to process the uncoupling of recognition and emotion, substitute the idea that this must be a different person, an imposter; they go searching​ for details to confirm that delusion.

This is a fairly common conspiracy theory. Has there ever been a verified case of a celebrity or even a marginally famous person being replaced by a double/imposter? Any case at all beyond, like, bog-standard identity theft of a regular person? The closest I can think of is Frédéric Bourdin, which is some entirely other shit.
posted by penduluum at 8:04 AM on May 24, 2017 [12 favorites]


I'm just going to point out that the article doesn't actually do anything to debunk the theory. It just assumes that the theory is "totally bonkers" and "has no grounding in reality", but it doesn't ever explain why besides the fact that this happens to other people. As it happens, the theory does seem pretty bonkers, but if it's really that far off base, shouldn't they be able to provide some counter-evidence?
posted by kevinbelt at 8:04 AM on May 24, 2017 [1 favorite]


These things are always funny to me because the conspiracy peddlers frequently use photos to back up their theories in an age where natural lines from having facial expressions (smiling, scowling) are photoshopped out and celebrities have the tiniest skin imperfections lasered or sliced away.
posted by xyzzy at 8:05 AM on May 24, 2017 [5 favorites]


Just to be clear, according to Buzzfeed this started as a fake spanish-language conspiracy theory to prove that a few well-placed paint circles and arrows can make anyone look like a doppleganger.
posted by muddgirl at 8:05 AM on May 24, 2017 [1 favorite]


"Paul is dead"
posted by Marky at 8:07 AM on May 24, 2017 [1 favorite]


It's like a thinly spread, slightly contagious Capgras delusion.

This sounds like a job for the SCP Foundation. They dealt with doppelganger Nixon, so I think they're up to the job.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 8:12 AM on May 24, 2017 [4 favorites]


As it happens, the theory does seem pretty bonkers, but if it's really that far off base, shouldn't they be able to provide some counter-evidence?

Me and the boys have this crazy lil' thing called "burden of proof" that we'd like to turn you onto.
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:13 AM on May 24, 2017 [21 favorites]


I do have to say that I had a lot of fun with "Paul is Dead" back in the day, as my finding out about it coincided with my really getting into the Beatles, and one of the alleged imposters was William Campbell, known for Star Trek (Trelane and Koloth) and also because his ex-wife was allegedly JFK's mistress.
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:17 AM on May 24, 2017 [2 favorites]


Just to be clear, according to Buzzfeed this started as a fake spanish-language conspiracy theory to prove that a few well-placed paint circles and arrows can make anyone look like a doppleganger.

Yes, there's one I've seen on Facebook recently involving Carrie Underwood that was also a parody.
posted by tofu_crouton at 8:18 AM on May 24, 2017


What I'm finding bizarre is why everyone decided to resurrect a weird story almost one and a half years after everyone stopped giving a shit about other than for sweet, sweet clicks.

but if it's really that far off base, shouldn't they be able to provide some counter-evidence?
This. The article has no mentions of photoshop, digital artifacts, plastic surgery, shaping/contouring make up, aging or anything that explain why it's a shitty conspiracy (as well as reminding celebrities often look "perfect" in because it's not like they would ok pictures with a stray hair on the cheek or a pimple or a rash).
posted by lmfsilva at 8:18 AM on May 24, 2017


There's a similar internet rumor kicking around that party-rocker/motivational speaker Andrew WK was replaced by a doppelgänger named "Steev Mike" [sic].
posted by Barack Spinoza at 8:25 AM on May 24, 2017 [5 favorites]


Oh hey, I only saw all of the conspiracy thread memes that were riffing off of this, but didn't know where it was all coming from.
posted by dinty_moore at 8:32 AM on May 24, 2017


Can we start a conspiracy theory that Donald Trump was murdered in 2008 by Jeffery Epstein in revenge for having him imprisoned? And that Donald Trump was replaced by a state of the art robot controlled by Robert Mercer?
posted by Talez at 8:37 AM on May 24, 2017


I think it is highly likely that at least one celebrity in modern history has been replaced by a lookalike. But they would have to be so profitable just by virtue of their existence that such a ruse would make sense.
posted by grumpybear69 at 8:38 AM on May 24, 2017


according to Buzzfeed this started as a fake spanish-language conspiracy theory

Spanish ≠ Portuguese
posted by signal at 8:40 AM on May 24, 2017 [1 favorite]


Darren Stevens
posted by rakish_yet_centered at 8:41 AM on May 24, 2017 [5 favorites]


Spanish ≠ Portuguese

I know! I'm sorry!
posted by muddgirl at 8:42 AM on May 24, 2017 [2 favorites]


I'm just going to point out that the article doesn't actually do anything to debunk the theory. It just assumes that the theory is "totally bonkers" and "has no grounding in reality", but it doesn't ever explain why besides the fact that this happens to other people. As it happens, the theory does seem pretty bonkers, but if it's really that far off base, shouldn't they be able to provide some counter-evidence?

It sounds like you haven't had a lot of experience trying to engage with conspiracy theorists or theories. What kind of counter-evidence could a magazine writer provide? The people who push a conspiracy theory like this have access to essentially the same publicly available facts as everyone else. It's a matter of interpretation. It is a bonkers theory, but it's not impossible and that means there will always be someone to believe in it. Actually, even impossible theories (flat earth, hollow earth, lizard men, etc. have vocal believers). All you can say is that in order for this theory to be true dozens of conspirators would have to act in concert to pull it off without anyone being the wiser and yet somehow a small group of internet "detectives" have figured out the big secret.

I think it is highly likely that at least one celebrity in modern history has been replaced by a lookalike. But they would have to be so profitable just by virtue of their existence that such a ruse would make sense.

^Case in point. How would you disprove a statement like this?
posted by runcibleshaw at 8:44 AM on May 24, 2017 [7 favorites]


I think it is highly likely that at least one celebrity in modern history has been replaced by a lookalike. But they would have to be so profitable just by virtue of their existence that such a ruse would make sense.

The problem being that the only people who would qualify are highly recognizable, very public, and usually known for things that are unique to them and difficult to replicate. The degree of difficulty at actually pulling it off is incredibly high, the downside is that you all lose everything and possibly go to jail, and as history has shown, it's not exactly hard to make money off of famous people who have died.
posted by Copronymus at 8:47 AM on May 24, 2017 [5 favorites]


This also happened to me. I was replaced by an imposter. It was even more devious as it was slower; craftier.
Sometime around my 39th birthday, you can tell something started changing. You can check for yourself if you want; look at pictures from when I was 17. Then look at pictures of the "me" from today. Rounder face. Totally different hairline. Different size pants. Way more empty beer cans in the kitchen.
WAKE UP PEOPLE.
posted by chococat at 8:48 AM on May 24, 2017 [53 favorites]




Maybe Avril is hiding out in Finland...
posted by JoeZydeco at 8:53 AM on May 24, 2017 [1 favorite]


Really, my cells have been slowly replacing me with a lookalike for years.
posted by dinty_moore at 8:54 AM on May 24, 2017 [11 favorites]


I am Avril Lavigne and so is my wife.
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:56 AM on May 24, 2017 [6 favorites]


I think it is highly likely that at least one celebrity in modern history has been replaced by a lookalike.

Lassie.
posted by rocket88 at 8:59 AM on May 24, 2017 [42 favorites]


And that Donald Trump was replaced by a state of the art robot

I just misread this as "Donald Trump was replaced by an art robot," and I thought, "Oh cool, art robot!" More art robots, less of that other guy, please.
posted by limeonaire at 9:07 AM on May 24, 2017 [2 favorites]


So my dad had Lyme disease, and was treated fairly quickly...and has continued to have major health problems, ever since. Apparently a small(ish) percentage of people get something called post-treatment Lyme disease. It has been absolutely miserable for him and the recovery has been a very long, slow, and uneven process.

I mention all of this because in the course of learning about post-treatment Lyme disease I learned that Avril has gone through basically the same thing, including the long slow recovery. So in case any of you were wondering if there was a real reason why Avril has been mostly absent from the public eye in recent years, it's not "she's been replaced by a doppleganger and people started catching on".
posted by mstokes650 at 9:12 AM on May 24, 2017 [4 favorites]


I'm Avril Lavigne, and you're not.
posted by Greg_Ace at 9:19 AM on May 24, 2017 [1 favorite]


I'm Greg_Ace, and you're not.
posted by clawsoon at 9:28 AM on May 24, 2017 [4 favorites]


Sometime around my 39th birthday, you can tell something started changing.

I know you are joking, but this drives me bonkers in all the tabloids where they try to "expose" celebs who have had terrible plastic surgery!!!!! Here are the plastic surgeons explaining what they had done!!!!

I mean, I don't doubt that many famous people have had plastic surgery that leaves them looking completely identical except that they are twenty pounds lighter, but the "differences" that these articles point to frequently look about the same as differences between me now and me at 21. Faces change. Noses look different after the span of decades. Natural breasts sometimes grow and sometimes shrink. It is so weird to me that an entire industry exists to pretend that the concept of "human appearances are altered over the course of time" is somehow a lie.

(Also, most lookalikes? Look only marginally like the people they are imitating. Even identical twins are rarely a perfect match by the time they reach adulthood. The odds that SO MANY famous people not only have doppelgangers on the planet, but have found them and hired them, is based on a premise that I find fundamentally absurd. And yet.)
posted by a fiendish thingy at 9:42 AM on May 24, 2017 [3 favorites]


I think it is highly likely that at least one celebrity in modern history has been replaced by a lookalike. But they would have to be so profitable just by virtue of their existence that such a ruse would make sense.

This did happen fairly frequently, after a fashion, in professional wrestling. Masked (and face-painted) wrestlers were often portrayed by different people, especially if they were low-status "enhancement talent" that no one really cared about.

This more or less ended (with a few notable exceptions) in the modern WWF/E era, as national TV exposure made it more difficult to swap people out convincingly, which led to a fairly big angle that famously "went down like a fart in church", as well as a similar theory about the Ultimate Warrior.
posted by Etrigan at 9:48 AM on May 24, 2017 [2 favorites]


"Fred, please come in and have a seat. Congratulations are in order! You've been selected by the New World Order to become a celebrity doppelganger in order to help maintain our control of the modern zeitgeist."
"Thank you, sir? Floating Skull?"
"Mr. Floating Skull is fine. Anyways, we've read your application material and think we have a role for you."
"Is it Brad Pitt? I hope it's Brad Pitt - people always say we have the same jaw line. I know I'm a bit, uh, heavier than he is but I'll work really hard to shed the-"
"No worries on that front, Fred. Thanks to our partners the Reptilians, we have technology completely capable of reformulating your body to meet a specific type. Nanites, Fred. What can't they do? Just a little puff of them and before you know it, a new to you you. What we can't do is replicate particular mental zeta waves. Each celebrity we promote has a unique zeta wave pattern that feeds into our amplifiers and well, it gets very technical after that."
"Oh. Okay. My zeta waves..."
"Match a current celebrity we need replaced, yes. The current model isn't working out, has been eschewing the public eye, not encouraging rampant consumerism, that sort of thing. So we want you to take the lead for the big comeback."
"Wow. Thank you again, Mr. Floating Skull."
"Please, Fred. Mr. Floating Skull is my father's name. Call me ***DISTORTED STATIC NOISES***. Anyways, if you open the packet in front of you, you'll find a memory crystal that will help fill you in on your background, teach you the song lyrics-"
"Oh! I'm going to be a musician!"
"Yes! Lucky for you, Fred. I know that was one of your preferences you indicated in your application and we at the New World Order always try to give people what they need - I mean - prefer."
"So who is it?"
"Avril Lavigne."
"Avril... that name is familiar. Was he in Metallica?"
"Oh, no, Fred. She had a huge solo career, but dropped out to focus on acting which-"
"Wait. She?"
"Like I said, Fred. Reptilians. Nanites. You are going to feel very itchy in a few minutes, so I suggest you crack that crystal soon."
"I.. uh..."
"See you later, boi."
posted by robocop is bleeding at 10:01 AM on May 24, 2017 [15 favorites]


we should never assume anything about anyone's mental health.

Vs.

Obviously though this theory is totally bonkers

Oh TeenVogue.
posted by chavenet at 10:10 AM on May 24, 2017 [1 favorite]


"It sounds like you haven't had a lot of experience trying to engage with conspiracy theorists or theories. What kind of counter-evidence could a magazine writer provide?"

You're correct, thankfully. I don't have much experience, but what little I do has been much harder-hitting than this. Think of Pizzagate from last fall. Also a seemingly bonkers theory, and yet swarms of reporter descended on Coment Ping Pong to pronounce that it did not show any evidence of being a child sex den. I read numerous pieces explaining how the conspiracy theorists claimed that graphics on the wall were secret pedophile symbols, and found similar symbols were actually quite common. They found that the building does not actually have a basement as claimed. They found records of when John Podesta actually ate there.

In this case, it doesn't even appear that the writer made an attempt to contact Avril. Not even a predictable "yeah that's not true" from her publicist. She was married to another fairly prominent musician at the time this supposedly occurred. He shouldn't be hard to get a statement from. And what about this Melissa Vandella person. She must exist in public records, right? It's not the most common name. It wouldn't be too hard to look up the various Melissa Vandellas of the world and, if nothing else, see if they look anything like Avril Lavigne. None of these will prove she's the same Avril, and they're not likely to persuade conspiracy theorists that Avril is still Avril, but it's pretty basic Journalism 101 stuff.
posted by kevinbelt at 10:18 AM on May 24, 2017 [2 favorites]


Think of Pizzagate from last fall. Also a seemingly bonkers theory, and yet swarms of reporter descended on Coment Ping Pong to pronounce that it did not show any evidence of being a child sex den. I read numerous pieces explaining how the conspiracy theorists claimed that graphics on the wall were secret pedophile symbols, and found similar symbols were actually quite common. They found that the building does not actually have a basement as claimed. They found records of when John Podesta actually ate there.

And that's why we aren't still hearing about Pizzagate, it having been thoroughly debunk-- I'm sorry, I'm getting an update... Really? Not in the slightest? Not even one? Huh.
posted by Etrigan at 10:47 AM on May 24, 2017 [1 favorite]


Think of Pizzagate from last fall. Also a seemingly bonkers theory, and yet swarms of reporter descended on Coment Ping Pong to pronounce that it did not show any evidence of being a child sex den.

Not every conspiracy theory has the same impact if believed, or the same partisan impetus for it to be believed if not forcefully debunked. Simply put, it just doesn't really matter much (except to her and her loved ones) whether or not Avril Lavigne is dead. It's an extraordinary claim, and there is no extraordinary proof. Unless there's some compelling reason to debunk it, as there was in the case of Pizzagate, why bother? There are more important lies to challenge.
posted by howfar at 10:54 AM on May 24, 2017 [2 favorites]


Barenstein.
posted by Muddler at 10:57 AM on May 24, 2017 [2 favorites]


Well, obviously, as a musician she must must travel a lot. She must have gone through Denver International Airport at some point and been replaced by a lizard person from the subterranean vaults there. The REAL Avril Levine must be being kept alive in a tank down there and we have to rescue her!
posted by sexyrobot at 12:00 PM on May 24, 2017 [1 favorite]


I'm the same age as Avril Lavigne and have also stopped wearing the same style clothes as I did when I was 18.

I can only assume that our entire generation have, in fact, been replaced.
posted by threetwentytwo at 12:03 PM on May 24, 2017 [8 favorites]


we should never assume anything about anyone's mental health.
Vs.
Obviously though this theory is totally bonkers

Oh TeenVogue.


Criticize the theory, not the theorist?
posted by aureliobuendia at 12:18 PM on May 24, 2017 [1 favorite]


I love this completely, but if the fact that she's not dressing like this first picture anymore is evidence, there are a ton more doppelgangers around than we all suspected.

Yeah, I am actually a doppelganger as well and early-2000s capricorn is definitely dead. Early 2000s capricorn: wore heavy black eyeliner, Nightmare Before Christmas Hoodies, baggy t-shirts, bondage pants. 2017 capricorn: blonde hair, well-fitted clothing, stable job situation, LOVING THE ATTENTION, OBVIOUSLY COVERING UP A MURDER
posted by capricorn at 1:10 PM on May 24, 2017 [2 favorites]


-capricorn, making the same joke as everyone else in the thread
posted by capricorn at 1:12 PM on May 24, 2017


If you live you get a conspiracy theory that you died and they brought in a doppelganger to sell more music, and if you die you get a conspiracy theory that you faked your death to sell more music. You just can't win.
posted by ckape at 1:13 PM on May 24, 2017 [2 favorites]


One thing that sort of disappointed me with this whole story has been, while I follow Nickelback on twitter, not once has Chad Kroeger mentioned this controversy on that forum. And, you'd think, if the guy were married to her, he would have known if she was Avril or Melissa, and could have set the record straight for all of us.
posted by Metro Gnome at 2:40 PM on May 24, 2017


> Call me ***DISTORTED STATIC NOISES***.

Holy shit this is the The Adventure Zone crossover we need.
posted by ardgedee at 2:56 PM on May 24, 2017 [1 favorite]


> In this case, it doesn't even appear that the writer made an attempt to contact Avril. Not even a predictable "yeah that's not true" from her publicist.

The story is not about whether she is alive. The story is about the rumor. Checking on her status changes the subject of the story from the rumor to the person the rumor is about.
posted by ardgedee at 3:07 PM on May 24, 2017 [1 favorite]


And of course, Ska8ter Boi backwards sounds exactly like "Avril has been dead for ages, honestly."
posted by dannyboybell at 3:42 PM on May 24, 2017


And, you'd think, if the guy were married to her, he would have known if she was Avril or Melissa, and could have set the record straight for all of us.

The fact that, despite media provocation, he has not descended to engaging in gross tittle tattle about his wife gives me a feeling of respect for Chad Kroeger that I never really expected to experience.
posted by howfar at 3:58 PM on May 24, 2017 [4 favorites]


This did happen fairly frequently, after a fashion, in professional wrestling. Masked (and face-painted) wrestlers were often portrayed by different people, especially if they were low-status "enhancement talent" that no one really cared about.

Also in rock/pop music in the 60s, especially when dealing with bands from abroad. There was no internet and no ecosystem of magazines, so kids couldn't tell as easily that the band they were seeing were a bunch of ringers from somewhere closer. At one point, apparently there were two fake sets of Beatles being toured around the US by different promoters; both were actually garage/surf-rock bands from elsewhere in the US.
posted by acb at 5:09 PM on May 24, 2017 [2 favorites]


chococat: "This also happened to me. I was replaced by an imposter. It was even more devious as it was slower; craftier.
Sometime around my 39th birthday, you can tell something started changing.
"

He would see faces in movies, on T.V., in magazines, and in books...
He thought that some of these faces might be right for him...
And through the years, by keeping an ideal facial structure fixed in his mind...
Or somewhere in the back of his mind...
That he might, by force of will, cause his face to approach those of his ideal...
The change would be very subtle...It might take ten years or so...
Gradually his face would change its shape...
A more hooked nose...wider, thinner lips...beady eyes...a larger forehead.
He imagined that this was an ability he shared with most other people...
They had also molded their faced according to some ideal...
Maybe they imagined that their new face would better
Suit their personality...Or maybe they imagined that their
Personality would be forced to change to fit the new appearance...
This is why first impressions are often correct...
Although some people might have made mistakes...
They may have arrived at an appearance that bears no relationship to them...
They may have picked an ideal appearance based on some childish
Whim, or momentary impulse...
Some may have gotten half-way
There, and then changed their minds.
He wonders if he too might have made a similar mistake.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:36 PM on June 19, 2017


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