“It’s no better since Anita Hill because we don’t have power.”
June 10, 2017 12:07 PM Subscribe
In Cosby Trial, Treatment of Women by Powerful Men Has Its Day in Court [The New York Times] [Descriptions of Sexual Abuse/Assault] “It’s a familiar and discomforting spectacle: A woman who alleges sexual assault is also put on trial. She is grilled on the witness stand about why she continued to speak with a famous man she now charges with abuse, someone who had the power to shape her future. The man has to defend himself against the possibility of false accusations, and so it’s open season on a woman’s credibility. Andrea Constand’s two days at the center of the Bill Cosby trial captured the dynamics that make sexual assault cases so polarizing and so resonant. Her testimony, picked over by Mr. Cosby’s lawyers, occurred at a cultural moment when accusations of sexual assault or harassment have rocked a media empire, a presidential campaign, Silicon Valley start-ups and countless college campuses.”
• Bill Cosby's Rape Trial Is About To Start And This Is Everything You Need To Know [Buzzfeed]
• Bill Cosby's Rape Trial Is About To Start And This Is Everything You Need To Know [Buzzfeed]
- Bill Cosby faces three counts of sexual assault for allegedly raping Andrea Constand in 2004.• A Jolt of Humanity at the Grim Trial of Bill Cosby [The New Yorker]
- The prosecution contends the comedian had a pattern of using powerful sedatives to incapacitate women before sexually assaulting them.
- The defense is arguing that Constand and another alleged victim called as a witness are opportunistic and can't be trusted.
- The trial could last two weeks, with the jury being sequestered for its duration.
“Things have been bleak at the courthouse, as you might expect. Cosby, whose lawyers have said that he will not testify but whose spokesman, on Friday, wouldn’t rule it out, is a silent, somewhat gothic figure, sitting at the front of the room, evincing no reaction. He is nearly eighty, and in a recent interview he said that he is now completely blind. On Thursday, the prosecuting attorney Kevin Steele read portions of Cosby’s 2005 deposition concerning Constand’s charges into the record, and they included statements from the once lively comedian that feel, frighteningly, both alien and mundane: “I don’t hear her say anything, and I don’t feel her say anything. And so I continue and I go into the area that is somewhere between permission and rejection.” In the midst of this, two witnesses for the prosecution have briefly electrified the courtroom. In different ways, Gianna Constand and the police sergeant Richard Schaffer have both sparred with Cosby’s attorneys, and brought their full selves to bear in Andrea’s defense.”• Op-Ed I'm one of Bill Cosby's accusers. His defense strategy is reprehensible. [Los Angeles Times]
“Bill Cosby now faces trial on charges that he drugged and sexually assaulted Andrea Constand in 2004. He has been accused by 59 other women of drugging and/or sexually assaulting them. Meanwhile, his allies have been painting a picture of him as a victim of a conspiracy driven by racism. Cosby continues to deny all accusations and has even tried to burnish his reputation by associating himself with the civil rights movement. As one of Cosby’s accusers and a black immigrant Latina, I find this PR strategy reprehensible. For many years I was afraid to go public. I knew that as a black woman accusing a beloved black celebrity of such heinous conduct, I would come under heavy scrutiny from the black community and expose myself to possible retaliation.”• Bill Cosby trial: defense tries to portray accuser's relationship with him as romantic [The Guardian]
“Constand took the stand on Tuesday to tell a jury in Montgomery County, Pennsylvania how the world-famous comedian deceived her into taking three blue pills that left her unable to move or speak. Once she was “frozen”, Cosby assaulted her with his fingers and groped her breasts, she said. It was the first time Constand has ever told her story in such a public fashion. By the late afternoon, Agrusa was trying to explore inconsistencies between her testimony and what she told police when she reported a crime in 2005. On Wednesday, Agrusa was trying a different tack, implying that Constand and Cosby’s relationship had been romantic in nature. Agrusa suggested that earlier dinners between Constand and Cosby had been intimate. “You were sitting by the fire. The room was dark. There was a nice mood,” Agrusa said, summarizing Constand’s 2005 statement to police.“I don’t know what that means,” Constand said. “The lights were dim and the fire was going,” Agrusa continued. “I don’t really remember how dim the lights were, but I did have to eat my dinner,” Constand replied.”
What disappointed me most was watching Keisha Knight Pulliam walk into court with him on his very first day to provide support.
Fuck Bill Cosby.
posted by Fizz at 12:44 PM on June 10, 2017 [16 favorites]
Fuck Bill Cosby.
posted by Fizz at 12:44 PM on June 10, 2017 [16 favorites]
OK, I tried to write a comment about my own similar experience, and realized that my memories are so uncertain and my thoughts so unfinished (all because of the drugs), that I just can't relay what happened meaningfully. So I am really impressed that Ms. Constand is doing this and I really hope it carries through. <3
posted by mumimor at 1:22 PM on June 10, 2017 [32 favorites]
posted by mumimor at 1:22 PM on June 10, 2017 [32 favorites]
Which presidential campaign was "rocked" by accusations of sexual assault or harassment? You mean the one that was totally successful and not hindered in any way since its base didn't care? 🙄
posted by trackofalljades at 2:41 PM on June 10, 2017 [40 favorites]
posted by trackofalljades at 2:41 PM on June 10, 2017 [40 favorites]
For fuck's sake "the lights were dim." It's absurd enough that there's people out there willing to absolve a guy of rape for something the victim did. Here they're asking people to absolve him because of something he did towards her. "Well, he acted like he was wooing her, so that means you can't blame him for what he did later."
I mean, I know this shit isn't even uncommon. It's just utterly bizarre to see it highlighted that blatantly, that "the defendant lit some candles earlier in the evening" or some shit like that gets treated as a defense.
posted by nebulawindphone at 2:58 PM on June 10, 2017 [31 favorites]
I mean, I know this shit isn't even uncommon. It's just utterly bizarre to see it highlighted that blatantly, that "the defendant lit some candles earlier in the evening" or some shit like that gets treated as a defense.
posted by nebulawindphone at 2:58 PM on June 10, 2017 [31 favorites]
For fuck's sake "the lights were dim." It's absurd enough that there's people out there willing to absolve a guy of rape for something the victim did. Here they're asking people to absolve him because of something he did towards her. "Well, he acted like he was wooing her, so that means you can't blame him for what he did later."
I mean, I know this shit isn't even uncommon. It's just utterly bizarre to see it highlighted that blatantly, that "the defendant lit some candles earlier in the evening" or some shit like that gets treated as a defense.
I am right there with you. Just because someone came over for a romantic dinner and didn't tase you when you came within a three foot radius of them does NOT mean they consented. And, although I have had my fair share of drunken sexyfuntimes (but always with the same SOs), I don't think needing chemical assistance for your partner so you can get some is a sign you are in any way, shape, or form doing ANYTHING healthy.
posted by Samizdata at 3:16 PM on June 10, 2017 [10 favorites]
I mean, I know this shit isn't even uncommon. It's just utterly bizarre to see it highlighted that blatantly, that "the defendant lit some candles earlier in the evening" or some shit like that gets treated as a defense.
I am right there with you. Just because someone came over for a romantic dinner and didn't tase you when you came within a three foot radius of them does NOT mean they consented. And, although I have had my fair share of drunken sexyfuntimes (but always with the same SOs), I don't think needing chemical assistance for your partner so you can get some is a sign you are in any way, shape, or form doing ANYTHING healthy.
posted by Samizdata at 3:16 PM on June 10, 2017 [10 favorites]
I'm too young to remember the coverage of Anita Hill's accusations; my first exposure to her was as an idea - a caricature, really, of a woman who we can make terrible sexual harassment jokes about.
I still feel guilty for some reason, even though I never made any of those jokes. I guess it's because she's owed better - this brave thing she did deserves to be remembered as more than a joke, and even though I only had the vaguest sense that she was a real person, I didn't know about her.
I'm so disappointed and angry that we're still doing this to women now.
Which presidential campaign was "rocked" by accusations of sexual assault or harassment?
Hillary Clinton's. Because of what Bill Clinton did. It might not have cost her the race by itself but it sure did keep some people from voting for her.
(Think on that a moment.)
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 3:23 PM on June 10, 2017 [34 favorites]
I still feel guilty for some reason, even though I never made any of those jokes. I guess it's because she's owed better - this brave thing she did deserves to be remembered as more than a joke, and even though I only had the vaguest sense that she was a real person, I didn't know about her.
I'm so disappointed and angry that we're still doing this to women now.
Which presidential campaign was "rocked" by accusations of sexual assault or harassment?
Hillary Clinton's. Because of what Bill Clinton did. It might not have cost her the race by itself but it sure did keep some people from voting for her.
(Think on that a moment.)
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 3:23 PM on June 10, 2017 [34 favorites]
The scary thing is that somewhere in the dark nether-regions of Cosby's brain, he believes the bullshit that he's trying to sell here. All this talk about how people back then offered each other quaaludes the way you offer someone a drink.
Benadryl or Quaaludes? Lawyers jostle over what drugs Bill Cosby gave Andrea Constand [Los Angeles Times]
posted by Fizz at 3:34 PM on June 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
Benadryl or Quaaludes? Lawyers jostle over what drugs Bill Cosby gave Andrea Constand [Los Angeles Times]
Prosecutors later in the day also read parts of the deposition in which Cosby acknowledged that decades ago he would buy Quaaludes he’d give to women before he would have sex with them. “I used them the same as a person would, say, have a drink,” he said in the deposition, adding that “there were times I wanted to have them just in case.” When asked whether he would “use them for young women you wanted to have sex with,” he answered, “Yes,” but said he never gave the drugs to a woman without her knowledge.Ugh, fuck right off.
posted by Fizz at 3:34 PM on June 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
I'm too young to remember the coverage of Anita Hill's accusations; my first exposure to her was as an idea - a caricature, really, of a woman who we can make terrible sexual harassment jokes about.
I still feel guilty for some reason, even though I never made any of those jokes. I guess it's because she's owed better - this brave thing she did deserves to be remembered as more than a joke, and even though I only had the vaguest sense that she was a real person, I didn't know about her.
I feel the same way about Monica Lewinsky. I was 10 when that all happened (and in another country) and had basically forgotten about it until the recent presidential election, when I finally read about it and watched some of the news clips again with adult eyes and had to grapple with the reality of how awfully she was treated.
I'm sure I never made a joke about Monica Lewinsky, but I felt sick to think that I'd heard so many and nobody around me had ever pointed out how messed up the situation was.
posted by retrograde at 4:30 PM on June 10, 2017 [20 favorites]
I still feel guilty for some reason, even though I never made any of those jokes. I guess it's because she's owed better - this brave thing she did deserves to be remembered as more than a joke, and even though I only had the vaguest sense that she was a real person, I didn't know about her.
I feel the same way about Monica Lewinsky. I was 10 when that all happened (and in another country) and had basically forgotten about it until the recent presidential election, when I finally read about it and watched some of the news clips again with adult eyes and had to grapple with the reality of how awfully she was treated.
I'm sure I never made a joke about Monica Lewinsky, but I felt sick to think that I'd heard so many and nobody around me had ever pointed out how messed up the situation was.
posted by retrograde at 4:30 PM on June 10, 2017 [20 favorites]
Incapacitated people cannot give consent. Full stop. As a teenager, I once got so drunk that I was told (in the bathroom, while I was puking) that I just had public semi-conscious sex. The dude was a "friend" of mine, but I wouldn't have done that sober. Later, I made a casual comment to my "best friend" about how that was pretty rapey, and I was immediately shunned from my social circle, because how dare I accuse him of rape. I was not able to give consent. Yeah, I was totally shitfaced, which was all on me, but the sex was something that happened to me. I was not an eager, consenting partner. I was barely conscious. So to hell with Bill Cosby. He made a series of choices, which culminated in raping incapacitated women. The guy that raped me just saw an opportunity and took it, which is still awful, but at least it wasn't premeditated. So yeah, fuck right off to Cosby and his supporters. (The dude's supporters hurt me a zillion times more than the act itself, really.)
posted by Ruki at 4:31 PM on June 10, 2017 [58 favorites]
posted by Ruki at 4:31 PM on June 10, 2017 [58 favorites]
How do the defense get to argue that she willingly took the pills? Surely that is entirely irrelevant to the question of her consent to sex.
posted by Joe in Australia at 4:38 PM on June 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Joe in Australia at 4:38 PM on June 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
I haven't even been able to follow along with brief news updates on the Cosby trial because they've all sounded so similar to the Jian Ghomeshi trial that I get a weird depressed deja vu feeling and immediately turn it off. Fuck these guys.
posted by mannequito at 5:47 PM on June 10, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by mannequito at 5:47 PM on June 10, 2017 [11 favorites]
How do the defense get to argue that she willingly took the pills?
Because they are garbage human beings.
posted by corb at 7:37 PM on June 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
Because they are garbage human beings.
posted by corb at 7:37 PM on June 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
Well, I thought the prosecution claims that Cosby administered a drug so he could rape the victim. But if that's the case then it doesn't matter whether the victim took the drugs voluntarily. The defense isn't supposed to raise irrelevant arguments, particularly prejudicial ones, so why are they doing this and why is it allowed?
posted by Joe in Australia at 9:00 PM on June 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Joe in Australia at 9:00 PM on June 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
I agree, mannequito, that's exactly what this reminds me of, the Jian Ghomeshi trial. I hope that unlike Ghomeshi, Cosby doesn't get away with it. I'm so sick of seeing this play out time after time, powerful men lying about sexually assaulting women and managing to drag the women through court to be abused all over again. It's disgusting.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 12:47 AM on June 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 12:47 AM on June 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
How do the defense get to argue that she willingly took the pills? Surely that is entirely irrelevant to the question of her consent to sex.
Not to mention that from some accounts I've heard, Cosby would lie to the victim about why he was giving her the pills. Wasn't there someone who came by for assistance with her career and he offered them to "calm down" or something? There is a huge difference between "here, have this, it'll calm you down and you're all overwrought right now" and "here, lover,,this will chill you put while we make sweet love."
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 2:08 AM on June 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
Not to mention that from some accounts I've heard, Cosby would lie to the victim about why he was giving her the pills. Wasn't there someone who came by for assistance with her career and he offered them to "calm down" or something? There is a huge difference between "here, have this, it'll calm you down and you're all overwrought right now" and "here, lover,,this will chill you put while we make sweet love."
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 2:08 AM on June 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
Mod note: One deleted; this is a tough and painful discussion for many here, so let's be thoughtful and precise, please, and try to avoid unnecessary angry derailing. If you are arguing that Cosby's defense is entitled to rebut IF something is the case, then this is just going to sound like trying to frame the situation as "this is fine" based on a "what if." If you are discussing what has actually factually happened in the trial, please be clearer about that. In any case, please be sensitive about the topic here. Thanks.
posted by taz (staff) at 6:01 AM on June 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by taz (staff) at 6:01 AM on June 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
In a different world, this would be the only thing we were talking about.
posted by armacy at 5:00 PM on June 11, 2017
posted by armacy at 5:00 PM on June 11, 2017
Terrible Columnist Argues Bill Cosby Is Not A Rapist Because She Liked The Cosby Show
Yes, it's that bad.
posted by tonycpsu at 1:27 PM on June 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
Yes, it's that bad.
posted by tonycpsu at 1:27 PM on June 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
Sweet Jesus, tonycpsu is not exaggerating. That may be the worst hot take I've read in my whole life.
posted by corb at 4:21 PM on June 13, 2017
posted by corb at 4:21 PM on June 13, 2017
For once the comments are worth reading, as they seem to agree unanimously that the column in question is a steaming pile.
posted by Lexica at 4:27 PM on June 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Lexica at 4:27 PM on June 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
Craziest thing that could happen is the fucker walks, and checking what year it is we appear to be in 2017... Fuck.
posted by Artw at 11:12 AM on June 15, 2017
posted by Artw at 11:12 AM on June 15, 2017
Mistrial Declared In Bill Cosby Trial
posted by zombieflanders at 7:28 AM on June 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by zombieflanders at 7:28 AM on June 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
Goddamnit.
posted by palomar at 7:31 AM on June 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by palomar at 7:31 AM on June 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
I'm anxious to see how the jury broke. This is just so disgusting, and it's little comfort that at best, Cosby's legacy will always have that asterisk. I want a whole wikipedia section about his sentencing and jail time.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:48 AM on June 17, 2017
posted by Room 641-A at 8:48 AM on June 17, 2017
Well, it was a mistrial, so the DA can (and has already stated they will) go to court again.
posted by zombieflanders at 10:00 AM on June 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by zombieflanders at 10:00 AM on June 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
I just read this from one of the jurors who voted to acquit (one of only two if I'm reading it right).
Really frustrating. Didn't assert Cosby wasn't guilty, just that he'd "suffered enough", the civil settlement should nullify the criminal case, prosecutors should have let the statute of limitations time the whole thing out.
I get that judges can't overrule jurors who vote to acquit--and this is a good thing--but by his own depiction the juror was not weighing the evidence but making up his own version of what the law should be.
posted by mark k at 6:44 PM on June 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
Really frustrating. Didn't assert Cosby wasn't guilty, just that he'd "suffered enough", the civil settlement should nullify the criminal case, prosecutors should have let the statute of limitations time the whole thing out.
I get that judges can't overrule jurors who vote to acquit--and this is a good thing--but by his own depiction the juror was not weighing the evidence but making up his own version of what the law should be.
posted by mark k at 6:44 PM on June 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
he'd "suffered enough"
Jesus, fuck that shit.
posted by Artw at 7:16 PM on June 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
Jesus, fuck that shit.
posted by Artw at 7:16 PM on June 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
This has been a pretty terrible week on just about every conceivable level, but still, nothing could prepare me for this headline.
I mean...
Like, uh.
I just give up.
posted by tonycpsu at 7:48 PM on June 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
I mean...
Like, uh.
I just give up.
posted by tonycpsu at 7:48 PM on June 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
As a teenager, I once got so drunk that I was told (in the bathroom, while I was puking) that I just had public semi-conscious sex. ... Later, I made a casual comment to my "best friend" about how that was pretty rapey, and I was immediately shunned from my social circle
Quoting myself here. My mom has asked me for twenty years why said "best friend" turned on me (especially since former BFF's sister just a kid with my cousin), but I had always demurred, but after I posted this comment, I texted my mom and told her this story for the first time. I went to my parents' house the next day, and my mom just smiled sadly at me and said "I'll stop asking. I'm glad you told me. Something similar happened to me, but not as far, and I had to see him at my high school reunion and I just forced a smile." So... thanks, MeFi. Sometimes you're better than therapy.
posted by Ruki at 10:12 PM on July 1, 2017 [7 favorites]
Quoting myself here. My mom has asked me for twenty years why said "best friend" turned on me (especially since former BFF's sister just a kid with my cousin), but I had always demurred, but after I posted this comment, I texted my mom and told her this story for the first time. I went to my parents' house the next day, and my mom just smiled sadly at me and said "I'll stop asking. I'm glad you told me. Something similar happened to me, but not as far, and I had to see him at my high school reunion and I just forced a smile." So... thanks, MeFi. Sometimes you're better than therapy.
posted by Ruki at 10:12 PM on July 1, 2017 [7 favorites]
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posted by Samizdata at 12:37 PM on June 10, 2017 [9 favorites]