The Rise and Fall of the High-Top Sneaker
June 15, 2017 9:26 AM Subscribe
"For the first time, a generation of players is playing in low-tops.... Today's highest-tech, most forward-thinking basketball sneakers don't look like basketball sneakers. And the sneakerheads who love the rich history of the high-top basketball silhouette have had to look beyond the basketball court for inspiration." (sl Esquire)
Very interesting.. I wonder part of the reason for the move away from maximalism in shoes is that the kids these days aren't as susceptible to all the ridiculous technobabble they were trying to use to sell shoes to the credulous suckers like me buying them in the 90's.
posted by skewed at 10:06 AM on June 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by skewed at 10:06 AM on June 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
New technobabble for a new generation. It's still just a matter of style, and no one wants to be seen in something their dads used. See also white briefs and minivans.
posted by klarck at 10:19 AM on June 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by klarck at 10:19 AM on June 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
Since a foot injury about 10 years back, after a lifetime of wearing Hi-Top Chucks*, I've been consigned to low top New Balance spaz pads. I miss my high tops.
*Basketball related memory. I once described my Chucks to two coworkers as 'Air Maraviches.' One of them, a young woman in her twenties asked 'What's a Maravich?' To which the other listener, a black man in his 60's said 'one badass whiteboy.. Best left hand I ever saw....'
posted by jonmc at 10:19 AM on June 15, 2017 [17 favorites]
*Basketball related memory. I once described my Chucks to two coworkers as 'Air Maraviches.' One of them, a young woman in her twenties asked 'What's a Maravich?' To which the other listener, a black man in his 60's said 'one badass whiteboy.. Best left hand I ever saw....'
posted by jonmc at 10:19 AM on June 15, 2017 [17 favorites]
Interesting there's no mention of this trend throughout footwear - minimal footwear also was taking off, when Kobe decided he wanted a low top shoe.
I was also thinking of the minimal/"barefoot" movement (of which I am a huge proponent) when reading this article. The article mentions proprioception, which is a big buzzword among barefoot runners. It's interesting speculation that the high top of a basketball shoe protects the ankle simply by reminding the player where the ankle is.
But that's all it is, speculation, because there's so little research on this stuff. Shoe design seems mainly based on the status quo that's already set in. (For example, nearly every running shoe has an elevated heel and a ton of cushioning despite suggestions these might be counterproductive. I guess people got used to heel striking in high-heeled shoes, so the shoe companies simply added more cushion to the heels instead of questioning whether they should be facilitating heel striking in the first place.) Sounds like it is the same in basketball--people just keep doing what they've been doing until a superstar big enough to get noticed disrupts the field.
posted by mama casserole at 10:30 AM on June 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
I was also thinking of the minimal/"barefoot" movement (of which I am a huge proponent) when reading this article. The article mentions proprioception, which is a big buzzword among barefoot runners. It's interesting speculation that the high top of a basketball shoe protects the ankle simply by reminding the player where the ankle is.
But that's all it is, speculation, because there's so little research on this stuff. Shoe design seems mainly based on the status quo that's already set in. (For example, nearly every running shoe has an elevated heel and a ton of cushioning despite suggestions these might be counterproductive. I guess people got used to heel striking in high-heeled shoes, so the shoe companies simply added more cushion to the heels instead of questioning whether they should be facilitating heel striking in the first place.) Sounds like it is the same in basketball--people just keep doing what they've been doing until a superstar big enough to get noticed disrupts the field.
posted by mama casserole at 10:30 AM on June 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
How do those shoes work to overcome gravity ? Do You Know? Do You Know? Do You Know? Do You Know?
posted by k5.user at 10:33 AM on June 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by k5.user at 10:33 AM on June 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
Support is overrated.
Seriously. If you want part of your body to become weaker and more prone to injury, teach it that it doesn't need to support itself, and watch your muscle and tendon strength evaporate.
Shoe design is largely driven by people trying to convince us that we can't possibly do stuff like run, jump, etc. unless we have the special expensive shoes, because clearly human beings never once ran or jumped in the hundreds of thousands of years leading up to the invention of the athletic shoe.
There are certainly cases to be made that the shoe as it stands now needs to counter the hardness of the surfaces we currently walk on - sidewalks are more firm than dirt, after all - but the amount of give required there is pretty little. An athletic shoe doesn't need to be overbuilt, but an overbuilt athletic shoe does allow the shoe company to charge more...
posted by caution live frogs at 11:04 AM on June 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
Seriously. If you want part of your body to become weaker and more prone to injury, teach it that it doesn't need to support itself, and watch your muscle and tendon strength evaporate.
Shoe design is largely driven by people trying to convince us that we can't possibly do stuff like run, jump, etc. unless we have the special expensive shoes, because clearly human beings never once ran or jumped in the hundreds of thousands of years leading up to the invention of the athletic shoe.
There are certainly cases to be made that the shoe as it stands now needs to counter the hardness of the surfaces we currently walk on - sidewalks are more firm than dirt, after all - but the amount of give required there is pretty little. An athletic shoe doesn't need to be overbuilt, but an overbuilt athletic shoe does allow the shoe company to charge more...
posted by caution live frogs at 11:04 AM on June 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
So I was 12 and in junior high and it's 1992 and these Air Jordans are what all the "cool" kids are wearing. I'm young and bouncing at the mall, begging my dad to buy these shoes for me. They're being sold for $79-99 some where in that range, which is a ridiculous price. But I keep at it, I'm persistent. I'm telling my folks how I'll be able to study harder and do my chores faster if only I am blessed with the gift of these shoes.
My father shows me some nice reasonably priced Asics for $29.99. I can hear my stupid so called "cool" friends giving me shit for not having the latest shoe. I'm begging, I'm making a damn scene and a damn fool of myself. My father says yes. I'm ecstatic. This is what joy feels like, knowing that you're getting the coolest shoes ever. We go home and I'm wearing them and trying them on and planning out what I'll wear tomorrow at school.
I walk into school and I'm having a great time, loving the hell out of my shoes. I keep staring down at them and admiring them. I'm the best, I'm the greatest, I'm just like Jordan. It's 3 hours into the school day and I go down to readjust my shoe and tie my laces and the tongue of the shoe just pulls right out. It just breaks. I don't know if its just bad luck, bad quality, a combination of both.
I go home and have to explain to my dad that the $100 shoes that he bought for me broke on the first day that I wore them to school. To his credit, my father didn't really say anything, but he did have a knowing look. I was offered a replacement pair when we returned to the mall. I declined and opted for the reasonably priced Asics.
I never bought another pair of Jordans. And that's my Air Jordan shoe story.
posted by Fizz at 11:04 AM on June 15, 2017 [28 favorites]
My father shows me some nice reasonably priced Asics for $29.99. I can hear my stupid so called "cool" friends giving me shit for not having the latest shoe. I'm begging, I'm making a damn scene and a damn fool of myself. My father says yes. I'm ecstatic. This is what joy feels like, knowing that you're getting the coolest shoes ever. We go home and I'm wearing them and trying them on and planning out what I'll wear tomorrow at school.
I walk into school and I'm having a great time, loving the hell out of my shoes. I keep staring down at them and admiring them. I'm the best, I'm the greatest, I'm just like Jordan. It's 3 hours into the school day and I go down to readjust my shoe and tie my laces and the tongue of the shoe just pulls right out. It just breaks. I don't know if its just bad luck, bad quality, a combination of both.
I go home and have to explain to my dad that the $100 shoes that he bought for me broke on the first day that I wore them to school. To his credit, my father didn't really say anything, but he did have a knowing look. I was offered a replacement pair when we returned to the mall. I declined and opted for the reasonably priced Asics.
I never bought another pair of Jordans. And that's my Air Jordan shoe story.
posted by Fizz at 11:04 AM on June 15, 2017 [28 favorites]
The proprioception theory rings true to me.
When learning proper stances for bow and pistol shooting I kept doing something wrong with my shoulder and back muscles, and would 1) get tired quickly, 2) miss many shots, 3) end up with sore shoulders and a stiff neck for days. I could tell when I was doing it right, and I could tell when I was doing it wrong, but I could not figure out how to go from wrong to right.
I got bad sunburn on my back and shoulders one weekend, and next time I went to the range I could notice exactly how my shirt hurt the burned skin on my back when I was doing it right, and when I was doing it wrong I could just try to replicate the pattern on pain I was feeling before. It went great.
Getting sunburnt exactly 3 days before every outing is not sustainable, so I switched to putting some masking tape on my back, and feeling the pattern of pull on my back hairs. I don't need the tape anymore, but when I am getting into the proper stance I steel get a ghost sensation of tape pulling on my hair.
I did the same when I started running, I kept forgetting about my left knee, so I just loosely tied my spare shoelace just below my knee, and the problem went away.
Now that I think about it.... that expensive "Kinesiology Tape" that chiropractors hawk, that athletes have been using a lot in the last 10 or so years... it claims to support the muscles and tendons and all kinds of other unsubstantiated claims... is there a market if I start selling it as "proprioception" tape?
posted by Dr. Curare at 11:06 AM on June 15, 2017 [10 favorites]
When learning proper stances for bow and pistol shooting I kept doing something wrong with my shoulder and back muscles, and would 1) get tired quickly, 2) miss many shots, 3) end up with sore shoulders and a stiff neck for days. I could tell when I was doing it right, and I could tell when I was doing it wrong, but I could not figure out how to go from wrong to right.
I got bad sunburn on my back and shoulders one weekend, and next time I went to the range I could notice exactly how my shirt hurt the burned skin on my back when I was doing it right, and when I was doing it wrong I could just try to replicate the pattern on pain I was feeling before. It went great.
Getting sunburnt exactly 3 days before every outing is not sustainable, so I switched to putting some masking tape on my back, and feeling the pattern of pull on my back hairs. I don't need the tape anymore, but when I am getting into the proper stance I steel get a ghost sensation of tape pulling on my hair.
I did the same when I started running, I kept forgetting about my left knee, so I just loosely tied my spare shoelace just below my knee, and the problem went away.
Now that I think about it.... that expensive "Kinesiology Tape" that chiropractors hawk, that athletes have been using a lot in the last 10 or so years... it claims to support the muscles and tendons and all kinds of other unsubstantiated claims... is there a market if I start selling it as "proprioception" tape?
posted by Dr. Curare at 11:06 AM on June 15, 2017 [10 favorites]
I've been searching high and low for rugged, minimalist sandals. Specifically ones with enough webbing on top to keep them attached to my foot. My husband has a pair of women's Merrell's with zero drop and super flex soles. And he got them 5 years ago?
Today - NOTHING. Merrell only has sandals with 1-inch heels, ridiculous thicky thick soles. Wish I Could find some :/
posted by rebent at 11:22 AM on June 15, 2017
Today - NOTHING. Merrell only has sandals with 1-inch heels, ridiculous thicky thick soles. Wish I Could find some :/
posted by rebent at 11:22 AM on June 15, 2017
Support is overrated.
So is lack of support.
If anything has come out of the minimalist/barefoot running shoe movement it is that there is essentially no conclusive research showing anything about footwear.
What is best?
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Whatever gets you where you want to go.
posted by srboisvert at 11:22 AM on June 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
So is lack of support.
If anything has come out of the minimalist/barefoot running shoe movement it is that there is essentially no conclusive research showing anything about footwear.
What is best?
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Whatever gets you where you want to go.
posted by srboisvert at 11:22 AM on June 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
Re: Kinesiology tape and proprioception, when I went to physical therapy for my shoulder they taped up my back with the stuff for exactly that reason, to remind me to activate my upper back muscles and keep my shoulder blades back. It was one of the factors that helped me get my shoulder fixed. It was a revelation to feel how much I was rounding my shoulders/upper back in situations where I didn't expect to be. So physical therapists, at least, are totally on to this concept.
posted by pekala at 11:23 AM on June 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by pekala at 11:23 AM on June 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
My reason for needing shoes with a lot of support is that I skate hard as fuck and no way I'm landing a five foot ollie kick flip off a bank without a ton of arch support.
posted by Annika Cicada at 11:24 AM on June 15, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by Annika Cicada at 11:24 AM on June 15, 2017 [9 favorites]
I've been searching high and low for rugged, minimalist sandals. Specifically ones with enough webbing on top to keep them attached to my foot. My husband has a pair of women's Merrell's with zero drop and super flex soles. And he got them 5 years ago?
Today - NOTHING. Merrell only has sandals with 1-inch heels, ridiculous thicky thick soles. Wish I Could find some :/
Huaraches OK? I really like the Earthrunners I just got, but there's also Luna/Shamma/Xero/Vivobarefoot/maybe more I'm forgetting. The Xero string-style huaraches only have around a 5-6mm sole if I remember right.
The thing I've found with sandals is that you can't thin down the sole as much as enclosed shoes, you need more structure or they'll flip and fold under your feet. I have the thinnest option in the Earthrunners and they're still a little thick (8mm).
posted by mama casserole at 11:34 AM on June 15, 2017
Today - NOTHING. Merrell only has sandals with 1-inch heels, ridiculous thicky thick soles. Wish I Could find some :/
Huaraches OK? I really like the Earthrunners I just got, but there's also Luna/Shamma/Xero/Vivobarefoot/maybe more I'm forgetting. The Xero string-style huaraches only have around a 5-6mm sole if I remember right.
The thing I've found with sandals is that you can't thin down the sole as much as enclosed shoes, you need more structure or they'll flip and fold under your feet. I have the thinnest option in the Earthrunners and they're still a little thick (8mm).
posted by mama casserole at 11:34 AM on June 15, 2017
Support is overrated.
Absolutely. I switched from high-top hiking shoes to low-tops. I see people hiking in Vibram Five Fingers. There have been barefoot point kickers in football. I'm waiting for a basketball player to adopt Five Fingers.
posted by beagle at 11:36 AM on June 15, 2017
Absolutely. I switched from high-top hiking shoes to low-tops. I see people hiking in Vibram Five Fingers. There have been barefoot point kickers in football. I'm waiting for a basketball player to adopt Five Fingers.
posted by beagle at 11:36 AM on June 15, 2017
For a while, I was playing table tennis in a gym with a very slippery floor.
One of the things I tried was Five Fingers.
The grip was great, but my feet felt terrible after an hour.
I had assumed it was lack of support. Maybe I was just doing it wrong.
posted by MtDewd at 11:40 AM on June 15, 2017
One of the things I tried was Five Fingers.
The grip was great, but my feet felt terrible after an hour.
I had assumed it was lack of support. Maybe I was just doing it wrong.
posted by MtDewd at 11:40 AM on June 15, 2017
...and no way I'm landing a five foot ollie kick flip off a bank without a ton of arch support.
Which is hard as hell to find in any "skate" shoes. Most of them are flat as a board, and footbed can't be removed for a better orthotic to be put in.
posted by Thorzdad at 11:56 AM on June 15, 2017
Which is hard as hell to find in any "skate" shoes. Most of them are flat as a board, and footbed can't be removed for a better orthotic to be put in.
posted by Thorzdad at 11:56 AM on June 15, 2017
Annika Cicada: "a ton of arch support"
See the funny thing here is that from a mechanical point of view, the entire reason to use an arch is that arches are by definition self-supporting.
You don't see old Roman buildings with a pillar in the center of every single arch to hold up the keystone.
MtDewd: "I had assumed it was lack of support. Maybe I was just doing it wrong."
Or you went from supportive shoes to no support without enough transition time. If you haven't been a lifelong barefoot person, you need to give your body time to adjust, because you don't have the muscle/tendon/bone strength to deal with it. It took me years, personally, and that is a big issue. It's easy to develop an overuse injury if you jump right into being barefoot all the time.
In my mind the biggest reason behind the "decline" in barefoot running is that shoe companies saw losses in the minimalist lines - you don't need to replace the shoes every 6 months like you are told you should with highly cushioned ones. Unless you literally wear a hole in the Vibrams, a pair of FiveFingers will last you years. This led to lower sales, which led to companies deciding barefoot running was dead, which leads to fewer types of shoes available... which sucks, because Merrill and New Balance made some of my favorite shoes, and now I'm left with FiveFingers or nothing.
posted by caution live frogs at 12:04 PM on June 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
See the funny thing here is that from a mechanical point of view, the entire reason to use an arch is that arches are by definition self-supporting.
You don't see old Roman buildings with a pillar in the center of every single arch to hold up the keystone.
MtDewd: "I had assumed it was lack of support. Maybe I was just doing it wrong."
Or you went from supportive shoes to no support without enough transition time. If you haven't been a lifelong barefoot person, you need to give your body time to adjust, because you don't have the muscle/tendon/bone strength to deal with it. It took me years, personally, and that is a big issue. It's easy to develop an overuse injury if you jump right into being barefoot all the time.
In my mind the biggest reason behind the "decline" in barefoot running is that shoe companies saw losses in the minimalist lines - you don't need to replace the shoes every 6 months like you are told you should with highly cushioned ones. Unless you literally wear a hole in the Vibrams, a pair of FiveFingers will last you years. This led to lower sales, which led to companies deciding barefoot running was dead, which leads to fewer types of shoes available... which sucks, because Merrill and New Balance made some of my favorite shoes, and now I'm left with FiveFingers or nothing.
posted by caution live frogs at 12:04 PM on June 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
(I haven't actually tried nothing, because glass and dog shit and pinworms... I prefer a little protection, but I don't want support, because that causes me to lose proprioception!)
posted by caution live frogs at 12:04 PM on June 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by caution live frogs at 12:04 PM on June 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
If something works for me it's the right answer for everyone, why is that so hard for people to understand?
posted by bongo_x at 12:14 PM on June 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by bongo_x at 12:14 PM on June 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
“is there a market if I start selling it as "proprioception" tape?”
In the modern age, it’s only the marketing not the utility that matters.
I used to love training in Chuck Taylors or Vans or Feiyues. Cheap. Light. Great contact with the ground, you can feel the floor, shift well and still get traction (can’t punch in wrestling shoes, can’t wrestle in boxing boots, can’t run in either or work on pavement). Fortunately martial arts survived (most) athletic shoe marketing. I was wearing zemgear split toes fighting on sand and I caught a lecture from a guy who was arguing traditional Tabi were better, blah blah samurai ninaj whatever, and I said “you know Bridgestone tire invented those in the 1930’s right?”
Like the ouija board, non-conscious proprioception / ideomotor reflex? Interesting. Evil spirits? Yeah, made by Parker brothers, so probably not so much.
Don’t get me wrong, Tabi are great, basketball players use proprioception to juke each other, but marketing is what convinces people to spend a lot of money on trying to own it.
I thought Nike splitting their factory work in two – one factory making left shoes, one hundreds of miles away, making right shoes – was a brilliant solution to factory workers stealing shoes for themselves. Took me a bit to realize, they’re stealing shoes. How little are you paying a guy who has to steal shoes? How overpriced do they have to be? And for such a thin bit of the environment – polished layered near perfectly consistent hardwood.
“…a ton of arch support.”
Dunlop volleys aren’t bad. $30. Light enough to use your arch for natural support. But you’ll burn them right off your feet after too long.
posted by Smedleyman at 12:16 PM on June 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
In the modern age, it’s only the marketing not the utility that matters.
I used to love training in Chuck Taylors or Vans or Feiyues. Cheap. Light. Great contact with the ground, you can feel the floor, shift well and still get traction (can’t punch in wrestling shoes, can’t wrestle in boxing boots, can’t run in either or work on pavement). Fortunately martial arts survived (most) athletic shoe marketing. I was wearing zemgear split toes fighting on sand and I caught a lecture from a guy who was arguing traditional Tabi were better, blah blah samurai ninaj whatever, and I said “you know Bridgestone tire invented those in the 1930’s right?”
Like the ouija board, non-conscious proprioception / ideomotor reflex? Interesting. Evil spirits? Yeah, made by Parker brothers, so probably not so much.
Don’t get me wrong, Tabi are great, basketball players use proprioception to juke each other, but marketing is what convinces people to spend a lot of money on trying to own it.
I thought Nike splitting their factory work in two – one factory making left shoes, one hundreds of miles away, making right shoes – was a brilliant solution to factory workers stealing shoes for themselves. Took me a bit to realize, they’re stealing shoes. How little are you paying a guy who has to steal shoes? How overpriced do they have to be? And for such a thin bit of the environment – polished layered near perfectly consistent hardwood.
“…a ton of arch support.”
Dunlop volleys aren’t bad. $30. Light enough to use your arch for natural support. But you’ll burn them right off your feet after too long.
posted by Smedleyman at 12:16 PM on June 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
I skate in these currently: Adidas Suciu ADV. They've got this blue removable insole that's unbelievably awesome compared to any other skate shoes I've worn. I've done a mighty amount of damage to my body skating, I know it harms me, but hey it what I do.
posted by Annika Cicada at 12:18 PM on June 15, 2017
posted by Annika Cicada at 12:18 PM on June 15, 2017
I see people hiking in Vibram Five Fingers.
In this house we call those the Devil's Shoes, mister!
The first time I saw those I was on one of my weird cross country Greyhound trips. Standing outside the bus on a bleary-eyed 2-AM layover on a smoke break. Where I watched someone put out a cigarette with what I thought was their bare foot, which thoroughly squicked me out for some reason, but, no, they were wearing some kind of weird toe-shoe thing dredged up from some previously unknown part of the uncanny valley.
So ever since then they've kind of freaked me out. It's like my poor brain can't reconcile "shoe-like object" and "visibly wriggling toes" in the same space.
So is lack of support.
I'm definitely in the support camp. I have high arches and I'm very heavy and very active. When I was a kid my arches were so high that my foot print was just heel and forefoot and toes. If I scrunched up my toes and arched my foot I could almost put my foot down over a garden hose and not touch it.
I get a decent amount of barefoot time, I grew up with tons of barefoot time and spent many years in flat skater shoes and Vans and stuff. And my feet always bugged me. There was always some form of annoying, needling pain somewhere under the fore of my arch, especially after long hikes or walks. They didn't really stop bugging me until maybe 5-ish years ago when I started trying to opt for better shoes.
I also go clobbering around forests, trails and rocky beaches. I walk all over the place, sometimes with a really heavy backpack, or pushing a bike off piste. I can go from stomping a dank forest trail to climbing up steep, urban Seattle sidewalks in the space of a single day, sometimes with about a 70-80 pound backpack or load full of camera gear, food, water, clothes and gear because I'm traveling or visiting someone or going on a photo mission.
If it wasn't for my trusty mid-height boots, in the last month alone I would have seriously sprained or broken an ankle about a dozen times stumbling over wet rocks or tripping on curbs. I also would have probably ended up on the ground in various ways, incurring whatever hand/wrist injuries if I tried to catch my fall wrong.
I don't rely on them for support, and I definitely walk and move with my whole legs and feet, ankles and all, but they provide protection.
I'm also a huge fan of the industrial strength high tech insoles I use. They can turn a one mile walk into five miles. I like a lot of support and having my foot be encased in a tough and secure protective shell and tool that provides trustworthy grip and leverage. When I walk, I'm using my arch, and I'm almost always sprung on the balls of my feet, because I know how to walk.
And, frankly, there's simply no safe, sane, effective or even remotely comfortable way to go clomping around in a rocky tide line - especially in the dark and working on photography - without a decent pair of tough waterproof boots. I would shred my feet to ribbons on barnacles and basaltic rock in the first few steps. I'd break toes every time my feet came down between two rolling, pivoting rocks the size of a melon.
I've tried walking this kind of stuff barefoot or in sandals. It's not just uncomfortable, it's really dangerous.
posted by loquacious at 12:19 PM on June 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
In this house we call those the Devil's Shoes, mister!
The first time I saw those I was on one of my weird cross country Greyhound trips. Standing outside the bus on a bleary-eyed 2-AM layover on a smoke break. Where I watched someone put out a cigarette with what I thought was their bare foot, which thoroughly squicked me out for some reason, but, no, they were wearing some kind of weird toe-shoe thing dredged up from some previously unknown part of the uncanny valley.
So ever since then they've kind of freaked me out. It's like my poor brain can't reconcile "shoe-like object" and "visibly wriggling toes" in the same space.
So is lack of support.
I'm definitely in the support camp. I have high arches and I'm very heavy and very active. When I was a kid my arches were so high that my foot print was just heel and forefoot and toes. If I scrunched up my toes and arched my foot I could almost put my foot down over a garden hose and not touch it.
I get a decent amount of barefoot time, I grew up with tons of barefoot time and spent many years in flat skater shoes and Vans and stuff. And my feet always bugged me. There was always some form of annoying, needling pain somewhere under the fore of my arch, especially after long hikes or walks. They didn't really stop bugging me until maybe 5-ish years ago when I started trying to opt for better shoes.
I also go clobbering around forests, trails and rocky beaches. I walk all over the place, sometimes with a really heavy backpack, or pushing a bike off piste. I can go from stomping a dank forest trail to climbing up steep, urban Seattle sidewalks in the space of a single day, sometimes with about a 70-80 pound backpack or load full of camera gear, food, water, clothes and gear because I'm traveling or visiting someone or going on a photo mission.
If it wasn't for my trusty mid-height boots, in the last month alone I would have seriously sprained or broken an ankle about a dozen times stumbling over wet rocks or tripping on curbs. I also would have probably ended up on the ground in various ways, incurring whatever hand/wrist injuries if I tried to catch my fall wrong.
I don't rely on them for support, and I definitely walk and move with my whole legs and feet, ankles and all, but they provide protection.
I'm also a huge fan of the industrial strength high tech insoles I use. They can turn a one mile walk into five miles. I like a lot of support and having my foot be encased in a tough and secure protective shell and tool that provides trustworthy grip and leverage. When I walk, I'm using my arch, and I'm almost always sprung on the balls of my feet, because I know how to walk.
And, frankly, there's simply no safe, sane, effective or even remotely comfortable way to go clomping around in a rocky tide line - especially in the dark and working on photography - without a decent pair of tough waterproof boots. I would shred my feet to ribbons on barnacles and basaltic rock in the first few steps. I'd break toes every time my feet came down between two rolling, pivoting rocks the size of a melon.
I've tried walking this kind of stuff barefoot or in sandals. It's not just uncomfortable, it's really dangerous.
posted by loquacious at 12:19 PM on June 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
I've been searching high and low for rugged, minimalist sandals. Specifically ones with enough webbing on top to keep them attached to my foot.
I don't know if they are minimalist enough for you, but my Keens are super comfortable and will probably outlive me.
posted by xedrik at 12:25 PM on June 15, 2017
I don't know if they are minimalist enough for you, but my Keens are super comfortable and will probably outlive me.
posted by xedrik at 12:25 PM on June 15, 2017
Great story, Fizz.
jonmc, the one thing Maravich did that I haven't seen since is that underhand pass which dropped almost straight down over the head and into the hands of a teammate breaking to the basket. It looked strange but was very effective.
I was an avid pick-up player for a long time, and one day I had a chance to play but happened to be wearing black-soled shoes, and those were prohibited on the hardwood floors of that particular gym, so I decided to go barefoot.
It was all good until the guy guarding me pointed to the floor and I saw that I was leaving a footprint in blood with every step of either foot.
Oh well, I trust they were easier to clean up than black streaks, but I was too embarrassed to show my face in that gym for a couple of months.
posted by jamjam at 12:31 PM on June 15, 2017
jonmc, the one thing Maravich did that I haven't seen since is that underhand pass which dropped almost straight down over the head and into the hands of a teammate breaking to the basket. It looked strange but was very effective.
I was an avid pick-up player for a long time, and one day I had a chance to play but happened to be wearing black-soled shoes, and those were prohibited on the hardwood floors of that particular gym, so I decided to go barefoot.
It was all good until the guy guarding me pointed to the floor and I saw that I was leaving a footprint in blood with every step of either foot.
Oh well, I trust they were easier to clean up than black streaks, but I was too embarrassed to show my face in that gym for a couple of months.
posted by jamjam at 12:31 PM on June 15, 2017
Ask Metafilter: If something works for me it's the right answer for everyone, why is that so hard for people to understand?
posted by General Malaise at 12:44 PM on June 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by General Malaise at 12:44 PM on June 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
Man, not for nothing, but I used to love high top aerobics shoes. If I could find them now, I would buy every pair in my size that I could afford. I was a competition gymnast, and a modern dancer. I know from bare feet, and in my 50s, dealing with all the injuries and tendonitis from hitting the floor at 30mph over and over and over again, if I could wrap my feet and ankles in pillows for the rest of my life, I would do it.
But damned if all the women's high tops don't have wedge heels, which...wtf?
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 12:47 PM on June 15, 2017
But damned if all the women's high tops don't have wedge heels, which...wtf?
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 12:47 PM on June 15, 2017
I dunno, I like support. I have had a fair number of ankle problems that seemed to multiply when I play sports in low-topped shoes, but I have yet to have a major ankle injury since switching to more supportive footwear. Of course, there are lots of other factors (I try to do more ankley exercises these days), but I'm definitely sticking with my 3/4 cleats.
posted by ropeladder at 1:15 PM on June 15, 2017
posted by ropeladder at 1:15 PM on June 15, 2017
I think the feedback theory makes sense and explains something to me. I've always had ankle problems wearing low top shoes, but I knew decades ago that it didn't really make sense that there was enough support in high top shoes to fix this. And I realized that they didn't have to cover my ankles, just touch them, like mid tops.
I think shoes and feet are still a mystery, despite all the research. I spend at least 80% of my waking hours barefoot, indoors and out, but when I wear shoes I need really high supportive arches. I could ignore this when I was young with just minor soreness, but doing so lately has caused me real problems.
posted by bongo_x at 1:27 PM on June 15, 2017
I think shoes and feet are still a mystery, despite all the research. I spend at least 80% of my waking hours barefoot, indoors and out, but when I wear shoes I need really high supportive arches. I could ignore this when I was young with just minor soreness, but doing so lately has caused me real problems.
posted by bongo_x at 1:27 PM on June 15, 2017
As with a lot of things, shoes are a YMMV thing. I have never in my life been able to figure out what "arch support" is. Is it supposed to be the shoe actually pressing into the arch? Because that's super uncomfortable. What I do know is that it's nearly impossible to find a shoe that does not either squish my toes or leave my heel floating around. So I embraced the fivefingers and the xeroshoes sandals because they protect me from stepping on broken glass or whatever while otherwise being stretchy or adjustable. I find I have better balance if I can feel the ground better and don't miss the lift under my heels.
I know other people who really do find a difference between arch support and not and their pain is real. There's enough variation that I'm not going to claim that if FiveFingers don't work for you it's just that you didn't ease in slowly enough or discover the One True Stride. I also know women who can no longer wear flats without discomfort. (And whoa, have you ever seen x-rays of dancers who've done a career en pointe?") There's a combination of genetics and how folks have been walking their entire lives involved and I'm not convinced anyone really understands all of it.
posted by Karmakaze at 1:35 PM on June 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
I know other people who really do find a difference between arch support and not and their pain is real. There's enough variation that I'm not going to claim that if FiveFingers don't work for you it's just that you didn't ease in slowly enough or discover the One True Stride. I also know women who can no longer wear flats without discomfort. (And whoa, have you ever seen x-rays of dancers who've done a career en pointe?") There's a combination of genetics and how folks have been walking their entire lives involved and I'm not convinced anyone really understands all of it.
posted by Karmakaze at 1:35 PM on June 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
SecretAgentSockpuppet
They do still make old school Reebok high tops without a wedge! They are not cheap! My friend with the coolest mom had these in a bunch of colors and would wear a different color on each foot. They matched her outfits perfectly. You can see why I thought she was cool as hell.
posted by shmurley at 1:40 PM on June 15, 2017
They do still make old school Reebok high tops without a wedge! They are not cheap! My friend with the coolest mom had these in a bunch of colors and would wear a different color on each foot. They matched her outfits perfectly. You can see why I thought she was cool as hell.
posted by shmurley at 1:40 PM on June 15, 2017
A truly great basketball sneaker doesn't really need visible air bubbles or diamond-shaped Hexalite or reinforced Velcro straps or, especially, a high upper that hugs the ankle.
THIS
IS
BLASPHEMY.
WHAT ABOUT PUMPS, AIR CHANNELS AND WHATEVER WOO THOSE SKETCHERS ROUND SHOES WERE SELLING? ARE THEY AS REAL AS SANTA TOO?!?!?
posted by Ogre Lawless at 2:04 PM on June 15, 2017
THIS
IS
BLASPHEMY.
WHAT ABOUT PUMPS, AIR CHANNELS AND WHATEVER WOO THOSE SKETCHERS ROUND SHOES WERE SELLING? ARE THEY AS REAL AS SANTA TOO?!?!?
posted by Ogre Lawless at 2:04 PM on June 15, 2017
My Mom had a pair of Air Jordans. They must have turned up at the sketchy discount shoe emporium we used to shop at in the industrial park.
I remember one day when I borrowed them because my shoes were too muddy/wet to go to school with. They were so comfortable and bouncy--almost like wearing a tiny pair of moon boots. When no one was looking, a ran down the entire length of the hallway, and I swear I've never moved with as much fluid grace as I did in that moment.
Even though I'm an adult now and I know much more about the hazards of heavily cushioned shoes messing with your proprioception and screwing up your ankes, I still couldn't help getting a new pair with memory foam insoles recently, just for kicks.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 4:09 PM on June 15, 2017
I remember one day when I borrowed them because my shoes were too muddy/wet to go to school with. They were so comfortable and bouncy--almost like wearing a tiny pair of moon boots. When no one was looking, a ran down the entire length of the hallway, and I swear I've never moved with as much fluid grace as I did in that moment.
Even though I'm an adult now and I know much more about the hazards of heavily cushioned shoes messing with your proprioception and screwing up your ankes, I still couldn't help getting a new pair with memory foam insoles recently, just for kicks.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 4:09 PM on June 15, 2017
I've been searching high and low for rugged, minimalist sandals. Specifically ones with enough webbing on top to keep them attached to my foot.
I don't know if they are minimalist enough for you, but my Keens are super comfortable and will probably outlive me.
Specifically the Clearwater CNX is their minimalist sandal. It's got a 4mm drop, lower total stack height, and a narrower heel than the standard Newport.
posted by fedward at 4:18 PM on June 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
I don't know if they are minimalist enough for you, but my Keens are super comfortable and will probably outlive me.
Specifically the Clearwater CNX is their minimalist sandal. It's got a 4mm drop, lower total stack height, and a narrower heel than the standard Newport.
posted by fedward at 4:18 PM on June 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
To me it's more of a migration to mids, then all of a sudden an abandonment of highs for lows. But I wonder if it's always been this ratio. The article was kind of short on anything definitive, just kind of a few anecdotes and shoe models. I play basketball multiple times per week, for a couple of hours each time.
Lets look at what the guys in the league are doing. Beginning (more) of the season. Middle of the season. End of the season. A good amount of high tops, a good amount of mids, and a few lows (primarily the Kobes, Kobe ADs, Mamba mentalitys and KDs).
But there isn't some glut of available lows. I play in them and shop for them and there aren't many good options for actual lows. Kyries aren't lows. I have yet to see anybody in a game I've seen or played in, wearing Lillards. Or Hardens. You don't see Li-Nings or Peak or Anta either.
As you can see in the photos, guys still wear Jordans. I love Fizz's Jordan story, but take it from somebody who has been playing basketball over and over across the country since the 80's, Jordans are quality shoes. In fact, some of them are very well made but very heavy as a result. Nike is obviously a prime brand, and typically people have highs or mids.
Right now, the "'Athlete 6'" named shoe model is the higher version, released first, and then they release the "'Athlete 6 lows'". Know when this article will be true? When the shoe models are called the "'Athlete 6'", and it's a low top model, released first, and the highs are called the highs, or mids.
posted by cashman at 5:15 PM on June 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
Lets look at what the guys in the league are doing. Beginning (more) of the season. Middle of the season. End of the season. A good amount of high tops, a good amount of mids, and a few lows (primarily the Kobes, Kobe ADs, Mamba mentalitys and KDs).
But there isn't some glut of available lows. I play in them and shop for them and there aren't many good options for actual lows. Kyries aren't lows. I have yet to see anybody in a game I've seen or played in, wearing Lillards. Or Hardens. You don't see Li-Nings or Peak or Anta either.
As you can see in the photos, guys still wear Jordans. I love Fizz's Jordan story, but take it from somebody who has been playing basketball over and over across the country since the 80's, Jordans are quality shoes. In fact, some of them are very well made but very heavy as a result. Nike is obviously a prime brand, and typically people have highs or mids.
Right now, the "'Athlete 6'" named shoe model is the higher version, released first, and then they release the "'Athlete 6 lows'". Know when this article will be true? When the shoe models are called the "'Athlete 6'", and it's a low top model, released first, and the highs are called the highs, or mids.
posted by cashman at 5:15 PM on June 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
Despite foregrounding them I think this article actually undersells how good the Kobe IVs were. I tried a pair and despite loathing Kobe as a person I've owned most of the models since and still wear Kobe IXs to play basketball today.
posted by zymil at 5:38 PM on June 15, 2017
posted by zymil at 5:38 PM on June 15, 2017
I've been searching high and low for rugged, minimalist sandals. Specifically ones with enough webbing on top to keep them attached to my foot. My husband has a pair of women's Merrell's with zero drop and super flex soles. And he got them 5 years ago?
You want Xero Z-Trek Sandals.
posted by The Toad at 5:45 PM on June 15, 2017
You want Xero Z-Trek Sandals.
posted by The Toad at 5:45 PM on June 15, 2017
NBA sneakers might be getting lower and lighter - but I think there's a hard limit to how minimalist they will go. Why? Because their feet are absolutely wrecked.
NBA players are massive human beings, with larger and longer than normal feet that take a pounding while they run and cut on a hard surface. Their feet and toes are so long at they're going to get twisted and bent and torn and broken at some point. And when they do get a foot or toe injury, they'll go with the ugly surgical repair to get back in 6 weeks instead of the cosmetically pleasing fix that would have them back in six months.
NBA players have terribly mangled feet that would never fit in a pair of Vibram Five Fingers. Not gonna happen.
posted by thecjm at 6:51 PM on June 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
NBA players are massive human beings, with larger and longer than normal feet that take a pounding while they run and cut on a hard surface. Their feet and toes are so long at they're going to get twisted and bent and torn and broken at some point. And when they do get a foot or toe injury, they'll go with the ugly surgical repair to get back in 6 weeks instead of the cosmetically pleasing fix that would have them back in six months.
NBA players have terribly mangled feet that would never fit in a pair of Vibram Five Fingers. Not gonna happen.
posted by thecjm at 6:51 PM on June 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
You want Xero Z-Trek Sandals.
I can confirm. I am wearing a pair right now. They're adjustable at toe, arch and heel to stay well attached to your foot.
posted by Karmakaze at 8:42 AM on June 16, 2017
I can confirm. I am wearing a pair right now. They're adjustable at toe, arch and heel to stay well attached to your foot.
posted by Karmakaze at 8:42 AM on June 16, 2017
Um, loquacious, are you a sasquatch?
posted by Don.Kinsayder at 9:07 AM on June 17, 2017
posted by Don.Kinsayder at 9:07 AM on June 17, 2017
Um, loquacious, are you a sasquatch?
Who is asking? What day is it? Where am I?
Uh, not genetically, no, but I hang out with some of them. If I was a sasquatch I probably wouldn't need shoes.
Granted, most of the sasquatch I know hang out in deep old growth forests where the understory is so soft and mossy that you don't need shoes at all. They might have big, furry feet but they're as soft as warm butter.
posted by loquacious at 6:16 PM on June 18, 2017
Who is asking? What day is it? Where am I?
Uh, not genetically, no, but I hang out with some of them. If I was a sasquatch I probably wouldn't need shoes.
Granted, most of the sasquatch I know hang out in deep old growth forests where the understory is so soft and mossy that you don't need shoes at all. They might have big, furry feet but they're as soft as warm butter.
posted by loquacious at 6:16 PM on June 18, 2017
I have flat feet, and I very much need arch support. If I walk any substantial distance barefoot or in sandals, my arches start killing me.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:03 PM on June 18, 2017
posted by Chrysostom at 10:03 PM on June 18, 2017
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This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
Restricting your ankle's motion is a terrible, terrible, idea. The role of the ankle attempted to be worked by the knees, and that gives you knee problems. Which gives you hip problems. Which gives you back problems. And then you're quite literally on the sidelines.
posted by alex_skazat at 9:40 AM on June 15, 2017 [4 favorites]