“...we are now well into the fourth decade of digital Nazi slaughter,”
June 25, 2017 11:49 AM Subscribe
The Alt-Right are complaining about Nazis being killed in video games [New Statesman] “The he use of minorities as stock villains is something that has plagued entertainment media for years. Now that political correctness has gone thankfully mad, it has become less acceptable to lean on generic brown terrorists, effeminate criminal masterminds or scheming mandarins when finding adversaries for an action hero to plow through. Video games may have lagged behind somewhat but many developers do at least make some effort to to avoid stereotyping. There is one notable exception, however. One beleaguered minority that seemingly has no voice in wider society. Nobody to stand up and say, "Enough. Leave these poor people alone, you MONSTERS." I'm talking, of course, about Nazis.”
• Watching internet Nazis get mad at Wolfenstein II is sadder than the game’s actual dystopia [The Verge]
• Watching internet Nazis get mad at Wolfenstein II is sadder than the game’s actual dystopia [The Verge]
“The white nationalist alt-right is upset about Wolfenstein II: The New Colossus [Trailer] [YouTube], a game about fighting Nazis who control America in an alternate 1961. No one is surprised by this reaction, and coverage of it is one part schadenfreude, one part reminder that the new white supremacy hasn’t strayed far from its horrific roots. While these reminders are useful, the fact that Bethesda made racists mad is less interesting than watching the entire saga play out in the trailer’s YouTube comment section. Like many unmoderated comment sections, the Wolfenstein II trailer is the purest argument against the notion that a marketplace of ideas will improve the world. It’s a free-for-all between people who don’t know or care about each other, can’t figure out who’s serious, and are having their entire debate under a video about a man named “B.J. Blazkowicz” who’s been fighting cyborg Nazis since before many of them were born.”• I fought Nazis at Berkeley — and I can't wait to punch them in 'Wolfenstein II'[Mic]
“I suppose the real craft of Wolfenstein II is that, in a game in which you can ride a fire-breathing cybernetic steed, the creative team has also managed to present Nazis in a way that simultaneously reflects the Nazi self-image and the lived experience of the barbarism they impose on others. The trailer likewise projects separate, grandiose narratives of horror and hope to the conflicting ideologies of the heroes and the villains. To the Nazi mind, the fear of fellow whites or Aryans applying their skills, knowledge and white privilege to aid the oppressed in annihilating them is paramount. But multi-class racial solidarity is the dream of the game. It’s my dream, too. I believe in fighting, to the death if needed, for the rights of immigrants, people of color, indigenous people, LGBT people and disabled people to live in our neighborhoods regardless of their documentation status or productivity under capitalism. I fight for human rights, because I’m human, bringing with me all the pain, contempt and anger that comes with that condition.”• The Surprising Importance of ‘Wolfenstein: The New Order’ [War is Boring]
“Video games such as Wolfenstein are important because we’ve begun to lose ideological arguments with the current crop of extremist assholes. Racism, genocide and all the other bits of awful that make up Nazi ideology are bad, but we’ve long taken that for granted. Part of the reason the alt-right and the new white nationalists are resurgent is because we’ve forgotten how to win arguments against them. For decades, most people understood that Nazi ideology was bad. We were close enough to the history that we didn’t need to have anyone explain it to us. Too often, when we engage in arguments with extremists who talk of racial purity, we falter to explain our side. Instead, we punch them and tell them “because.” To be clear, sometimes the only way to win against a Nazi is to punch them. But we also need to understand and be ready to explain the reasons why racism, genocide and white nationalism are bad. This may seem simplistic and rudimentary, it may even make you angry, but we must be ready to explain to young people why these ideas are so poisonous. It is no longer enough to just point at the history and say “because.””• Wolfenstein: New Order and Nazis in videogames [Den of Geek]
“But what if someone created a game about a young Nazi recruit drafted into the Warsaw Ghetto, where the atrocities happening around your character leads him to question the Nazi cause and help with an alt-history version of the Warsaw Rising? Maybe that would also be too raw a topic for Germany to tackle at this point, but it would certainly challenge the gaming norm, and convey the message that videogames are capable of being ‘art’ as well as big kids’ toys. Just as there will always be room for Inglorious Basterds in cinema, there will always be room for carefree Nazicide in videogames. However, cinema has its Schindler’s List, The Pianist, Stalingrad (1993), and countless other films that show some humanity amid the atrocities of World War II. The fascinating, harrowing topic of Nazism is just one of many that videogames need to tackle in a thoughtful way if they’re to mature. The problem, as New Order shows, is that there is no more satisfying videogame enemy to kill than a Nazi.”• Who's Afraid of the Swastika? Nazi Symbols in Video Games [Game Pressure]
“Treating games as “second class citizens” has serious implications for developers, putting them against a tough choice: whether to leave Nazi symbols in the game and create a separate edition specially for German players, lose potential customers in this 80 million people country, or spare themselves extra work at the cost of realism. This is not a new problem – as early as in 1989 the creators of Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade (a game based on the film mentioned in the previous paragraph) had to cover all swastikas in order to prevent the game from being banned in Germany. The result? Red flags with white circle and an awkward black square in the middle. In turn, Call of Duty series replaced Nazi emblems with the Iron Cross, a symbol used back in the times of Prussia. Even in the last year section 86a caused problems for game developers in at least two cases. Ubisoft had to delay the release date of South Park: The Stick of Truth in Germany, after a sole swastika was found in the game after it was cleared off Nazi emblems. However, that was nothing compared to Wolfenstein: The New Order, whose distributor, Bethesda Softworks company, had to create a separate version of the official website for Germany (only the international version contained playable Wolfenstein 3D, which was full of forbidden symbols) and replace every single emblem unwanted in Germany with a made up symbol – which was quite troublesome, as the game was set in the universe crawling with the Nazis.”• We shall fight them on the Xbox: a short history of Nazi-shooting video games [The Guardian]
“This summer will deliver the first second-world-war blockbuster in many years in Christopher Nolan’s Dunkirk. Nazis, in the form of exaggerated caricatures, zombie monsters, or historical figures ripe for assassination, are in vogue again. They offer us uncomplicated, centrally organised bad guys, a simplistic antidote to today’s dispersed, incognito pariahs. The Nazi invasion will surely soon spread from Hollywood into video games. Sniper Elite 4, a British-made game released last month, in which you play as an agent of the US Office of Strategic Services (the forerunner of the CIA) fighting fascists in 1943 Italy, leads the charge. Time slows to a crawl when you fire a shot from your sniper rifle. The camera tracks the bullet as it spins through air, then cloth, then flesh and bone. It’s grimly pornographic, at once satisfying and icky. Perhaps we will never tire of this black-and-white conflict, on to which we can project our fears and anger, and feel the self-satisfaction of knowing that we were on the winning side.”• 20 Years of Killin' Nazis: A Retrospective [IGN]
“Wolfenstein 3D didn't just kickstart a genre. It started a sub-genre while it was at it: WWII shooters. Many developers have since turned their attention to the Second World War era, and why not? It was the largest and most devastating conflict in human history. Unfortunately, so many developers did so that World War II shooters became cliche, stigmatised by vocal detractors as ubiquitous and unoriginal. Today, however, as our increasingly homogenised shooters refuse to budge from their bleeding-edge contemporary (or near-future) backdrops perhaps a return to 1939-1945 could be a surprisingly fresh approach? ”
I need to play more Wolfenstein.
posted by Artw at 12:02 PM on June 25, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Artw at 12:02 PM on June 25, 2017 [6 favorites]
Robot Hitlers are people too.
posted by dng at 12:03 PM on June 25, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by dng at 12:03 PM on June 25, 2017 [2 favorites]
no one is BORN a nazi, they become a nazi - and they can become something else if they don't like being treated like nazis
posted by pyramid termite at 12:04 PM on June 25, 2017 [67 favorites]
posted by pyramid termite at 12:04 PM on June 25, 2017 [67 favorites]
YES YES YES GET ANGRY STAY MAD BE VOCAL ABOUT THIS MAKE THIS YOUR MAIN CAUSE
posted by Sticherbeast at 12:07 PM on June 25, 2017 [66 favorites]
posted by Sticherbeast at 12:07 PM on June 25, 2017 [66 favorites]
::rolls eyes so hard that have to now go around picking them bouncing off the floor::
posted by infini at 12:07 PM on June 25, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by infini at 12:07 PM on June 25, 2017 [9 favorites]
I bought Wolfenstein: The New Order just today, and I can't wait to start playing it.
posted by bigendian at 12:09 PM on June 25, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by bigendian at 12:09 PM on June 25, 2017 [1 favorite]
#NotAllMechaHitlers
posted by Artw at 12:12 PM on June 25, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by Artw at 12:12 PM on June 25, 2017 [11 favorites]
You stupid fascist pigs! Look at you! You have horses! What were you thinking?
Never gets old.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 12:13 PM on June 25, 2017 [5 favorites]
Never gets old.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 12:13 PM on June 25, 2017 [5 favorites]
I highly recommend Wolfenstein: The New Order to everyone. It's good on a mechanical level: guns feel cool, you can shoot two guns at once, being sneaky feels neat too. But more than that, I was taken by the design and the story. The game really does explain to you why Nazis are bad, albeit in an elevated way. You see the cruel evil of Nazi doctors, the ruthlessness of purity-seeking, and you also get to experience the beauty of an intersectional team working "each according to their ability" to restore their old lives again. It stars an Aryan-looking man who joins up with a bunch of SJWs to kill Nazis. While his roots in the series as a white man feel like old hat, in this case it does make sense as he's the ideal inside man to wreck a Nazi fortress from within.
I'm looking forward to joining up with the Black Panthers and Tankies to stomp some Nazi butt in The New Colossus.
I think that's part of the reason these games are drawing such scorn from the neo-Nazi types. It's smart, effective, and a little too close to home regarding the people who are on the frontline of antifascism. The trailer has a beat about the main character wanting to make a better world for his unborn children. For me personally, the theme of bringing children into a world with an uncertain future hits a spot.
Side note: If the series keeps going, do you think that the Nazis would be on more or less of a climate change collision course than we are now? Would it be a fascist eco-topia of wind/solar farms? Domes of pampered Aryans while those who survive suffer in the wastes? Nazi waterworld boat bases?
posted by JauntyFedora at 12:24 PM on June 25, 2017 [17 favorites]
I'm looking forward to joining up with the Black Panthers and Tankies to stomp some Nazi butt in The New Colossus.
I think that's part of the reason these games are drawing such scorn from the neo-Nazi types. It's smart, effective, and a little too close to home regarding the people who are on the frontline of antifascism. The trailer has a beat about the main character wanting to make a better world for his unborn children. For me personally, the theme of bringing children into a world with an uncertain future hits a spot.
Side note: If the series keeps going, do you think that the Nazis would be on more or less of a climate change collision course than we are now? Would it be a fascist eco-topia of wind/solar farms? Domes of pampered Aryans while those who survive suffer in the wastes? Nazi waterworld boat bases?
posted by JauntyFedora at 12:24 PM on June 25, 2017 [17 favorites]
Am I wrong in assuming that these are the same folks who complain loudly at every opportunity about political correctness and how people are too sensitive?
Presumably this is an example of the high level of intellectual achievement that's possible with genetic purity.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 12:25 PM on June 25, 2017 [33 favorites]
Presumably this is an example of the high level of intellectual achievement that's possible with genetic purity.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 12:25 PM on June 25, 2017 [33 favorites]
Nazis need a safe space too.
I get a feeling they're going to get quite a sad when they find out what happened when WWII ended.
posted by 2N2222 at 12:37 PM on June 25, 2017 [14 favorites]
I get a feeling they're going to get quite a sad when they find out what happened when WWII ended.
posted by 2N2222 at 12:37 PM on June 25, 2017 [14 favorites]
To be honest, the American obsession with replaying a mythologized WW2 in which the Americans are pure, perfect heroes and the Nazis are literal inhuman monsters really is pretty tired at this point and runs the risk of enabling a cultural amnesia as to how fascism takes root in society, not to mention erases numerous facets of the historical war that don't fit the narrative.
On the other hand, it's too late. Fascism has already taken root in American society, and it's simultaneously baffling and pathetic to watch internet Nazis crying over a Nazi-fighting franchise that is by now older than most of them.
posted by byanyothername at 12:50 PM on June 25, 2017 [48 favorites]
On the other hand, it's too late. Fascism has already taken root in American society, and it's simultaneously baffling and pathetic to watch internet Nazis crying over a Nazi-fighting franchise that is by now older than most of them.
posted by byanyothername at 12:50 PM on June 25, 2017 [48 favorites]
These are also the same people who complain that criticism directed at white people is racist, while using multiple racial slurs to voice those complaints.
Honestly, Nazis should be mocked and humiliated as much as possible. It's not the only weapon we have against them, but it's a good one.
And to that end...
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 12:51 PM on June 25, 2017 [6 favorites]
Honestly, Nazis should be mocked and humiliated as much as possible. It's not the only weapon we have against them, but it's a good one.
And to that end...
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 12:51 PM on June 25, 2017 [6 favorites]
As a woc online, all I can tell y'all is that this is seriously becoming a major problem across the interwebz and the shock is greater and the response nastier when these cockroaches realize that outside their little town/county/state/country bubble, they are the minority, planetarily speaking. I'm getting very tired of ever increasing nastiness against WoC (can't speak for all PoC) online. And the hackering ongoing simultaneously that releases NSA tech just puts all the more damaging power in the hands of these morons. I've lost three laptops to RAT infestations, remote power surges, and most recently, the keyboard controller being malwared at the motherboard level.
Why?
oh har har lulz lulz you old brown toothless crone
CyberKristallnacht began in 2013
posted by infini at 12:58 PM on June 25, 2017 [21 favorites]
Why?
oh har har lulz lulz you old brown toothless crone
CyberKristallnacht began in 2013
posted by infini at 12:58 PM on June 25, 2017 [21 favorites]
byanyothername, I think you'd be surprised at the actual game. Sure there are robot nazi dogs on the moon and a robot with an incinerator in its mouth guarding a concentration camp. But there's more nuance than you would expect and a lot of time spent with various characters just learning about the world that you missed while in a coma. I mean it is still an FPS but there is way more humanity in The New Order's alternate history than any other WWII shooter I can remember. Much of the game is about you discovering the history of how Nazi's came to power and observing the horror. Also Ancient Jewish super tech and a surprisingly good stealth system and AI!
posted by kittensofthenight at 1:09 PM on June 25, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by kittensofthenight at 1:09 PM on June 25, 2017 [3 favorites]
I must say all this talk about punching Nazis frustrates and sickens me. Punching a Nazi does NOTHING to solve the problem.
Shooting them with a man portable Venom minigun or a particle cannon, on the other hand, does.
posted by Samizdata at 1:31 PM on June 25, 2017 [27 favorites]
Shooting them with a man portable Venom minigun or a particle cannon, on the other hand, does.
posted by Samizdata at 1:31 PM on June 25, 2017 [27 favorites]
Is this an article that should be subtitled 'White Supremacists Have Feelings Too' - because fuck that shit. If you want your ideology to be treated with any amount of respect, don't base it off hate.
posted by Nanukthedog at 1:35 PM on June 25, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Nanukthedog at 1:35 PM on June 25, 2017 [4 favorites]
"To be honest, the American obsession with replaying a mythologized WW2 in which the Americans are pure, perfect heroes and the Nazis are literal inhuman monsters really is pretty tired at this point and runs the risk of enabling a cultural amnesia as to how fascism takes root in society, not to mention erases numerous facets of the historical war that don't fit the narrative."
Spoilers ahead! But at least in this case, the game's narrative directly addresses some of this American oorah-isms; you can see it in this cutscene, starring Jimmy Literally Hendrix, confronting the protagonist about the state of affairs in America as someone who isn't white.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KQLifOQC_g
I agree that the trend is generally tired, but Wolfenstein: The New Order was weirdly competent and insightful with its storytelling, to the point where I'm still not convinced it really exists.
posted by Joviwan at 1:35 PM on June 25, 2017 [12 favorites]
Spoilers ahead! But at least in this case, the game's narrative directly addresses some of this American oorah-isms; you can see it in this cutscene, starring Jimmy Literally Hendrix, confronting the protagonist about the state of affairs in America as someone who isn't white.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KQLifOQC_g
I agree that the trend is generally tired, but Wolfenstein: The New Order was weirdly competent and insightful with its storytelling, to the point where I'm still not convinced it really exists.
posted by Joviwan at 1:35 PM on June 25, 2017 [12 favorites]
To be honest, the American obsession with replaying a mythologized WW2 in which the Americans are pure, perfect heroes and the Nazis are literal inhuman monsters really is pretty tired at this point and runs the risk of enabling a cultural amnesia as to how fascism takes root in society, not to mention erases numerous facets of the historical war that don't fit the narrative.
That's not really what's going on here. The previous game was set in Europe and only had one or two Americans. The forthcoming sequel, The New Colossus, is set in the US and shows how complicit the average American is in the new Nazi America. The trailer seems to emphasize how easily the postwar apple pie prosperity message could be co-opted into a dark heimatfilm. It has the KKK in it, and I wouldn't be surprised if it references the German-American Bund at least once, or Hitler's study of American sociology and race law. But also I hope it displays the more widespread everyday attitudes of many Americans.
That's why there's the uproar now. The previous games are killing traditional-looking Nazis in Europe, Just Like Your Granddad, Fighting the Good Fight™. This new game is about the fascism in our backyard, I hope it's unflinching in how it calls that out.
*I think when we talk about motives for fighting in wars, the contrast between the individual motives of soldiers and the motives of the country as a whole is an interesting dichotomy.
posted by JauntyFedora at 1:38 PM on June 25, 2017 [21 favorites]
That's not really what's going on here. The previous game was set in Europe and only had one or two Americans. The forthcoming sequel, The New Colossus, is set in the US and shows how complicit the average American is in the new Nazi America. The trailer seems to emphasize how easily the postwar apple pie prosperity message could be co-opted into a dark heimatfilm. It has the KKK in it, and I wouldn't be surprised if it references the German-American Bund at least once, or Hitler's study of American sociology and race law. But also I hope it displays the more widespread everyday attitudes of many Americans.
That's why there's the uproar now. The previous games are killing traditional-looking Nazis in Europe, Just Like Your Granddad, Fighting the Good Fight™. This new game is about the fascism in our backyard, I hope it's unflinching in how it calls that out.
*I think when we talk about motives for fighting in wars, the contrast between the individual motives of soldiers and the motives of the country as a whole is an interesting dichotomy.
posted by JauntyFedora at 1:38 PM on June 25, 2017 [21 favorites]
Is there a game where you can just slap the shit out of characters than look and sound like Richard Spencer, Sebastain Gorka, or Steve Bannon. Because I would pay money for that.
posted by Ber at 2:21 PM on June 25, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by Ber at 2:21 PM on June 25, 2017 [9 favorites]
no one is BORN a nazi feminist, they become a nazi feminist - and they can become something else if they don't like being treated like nazis feminists
Given how trivial this substitution is (and many like it, try e.g. "SJW") and how obviously silly and unpleasant its end result, I'd pick another type of counterargument. Any argument that doesn't counter the substance of their ideas is one that they can turn around like this while going "See? SEE?!"
posted by jklaiho at 2:27 PM on June 25, 2017 [2 favorites]
Given how trivial this substitution is (and many like it, try e.g. "SJW") and how obviously silly and unpleasant its end result, I'd pick another type of counterargument. Any argument that doesn't counter the substance of their ideas is one that they can turn around like this while going "See? SEE?!"
posted by jklaiho at 2:27 PM on June 25, 2017 [2 favorites]
Given how trivial this substitution is (and many like it, try e.g. "SJW") and how obviously silly and unpleasant its end result, I'd pick another type of counterargument.
It's only human nature to want justice and equality for people like oneself. One might even consider it a virtue. Killing Jews on the other hand and hating people you've never met requires external stimulus.
posted by Talez at 2:32 PM on June 25, 2017 [18 favorites]
It's only human nature to want justice and equality for people like oneself. One might even consider it a virtue. Killing Jews on the other hand and hating people you've never met requires external stimulus.
posted by Talez at 2:32 PM on June 25, 2017 [18 favorites]
Given how trivial this substitution is (and many like it, try e.g. "SJW") and how obviously silly and unpleasant its end result, I'd pick another type of counterargument. Any argument that doesn't counter the substance of their ideas is one that they can turn around like this while going "See? SEE?!"
There's this stuff called "history," and it tells us what sorts of things Nazis do and what sorts of things feminists do, and allows us to think that being one of those things leads to literal no-shit genocide.
This bizarre version of classical liberalism where justice means acting like ideas have no histories invariably manifests as its own reductio ad absurdum.
posted by kewb at 2:38 PM on June 25, 2017 [60 favorites]
There's this stuff called "history," and it tells us what sorts of things Nazis do and what sorts of things feminists do, and allows us to think that being one of those things leads to literal no-shit genocide.
This bizarre version of classical liberalism where justice means acting like ideas have no histories invariably manifests as its own reductio ad absurdum.
posted by kewb at 2:38 PM on June 25, 2017 [60 favorites]
This bizarre version of classical liberalism where justice means acting like ideas have no histories invariably manifests as its own reductio ad absurdum.
So much for the tolerant left!
posted by Artw at 2:42 PM on June 25, 2017 [22 favorites]
So much for the tolerant left!
posted by Artw at 2:42 PM on June 25, 2017 [22 favorites]
I enjoy punching, shooting, and killing Nazis.
Umm... In video games. Yeah....video games.
posted by Fizz at 2:45 PM on June 25, 2017 [1 favorite]
Umm... In video games. Yeah....video games.
posted by Fizz at 2:45 PM on June 25, 2017 [1 favorite]
"It tells me, that goose-stepping morons like yourself should try playing video games instead of burning them!"
posted by gwint at 2:54 PM on June 25, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by gwint at 2:54 PM on June 25, 2017 [9 favorites]
I also just got The New Order, and I'm delighted by how good it is. I mean, I wanted a AAA Nazi-shooter, and it definitely delivers on that, but there's a surprising amount of thoughtful worldbuilding and a touching romantic subplot. It's exceeded my expectations by quite a bit.
posted by figurant at 3:21 PM on June 25, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by figurant at 3:21 PM on June 25, 2017 [3 favorites]
Oh, Den of Geek's hot take: But what if someone created a game about a young Nazi recruit drafted into the Warsaw Ghetto, where the atrocities happening around your character leads him to question the Nazi cause and help with an alt-history version of the Warsaw Rising?
Does the author not realise that there were "young Nazi recruits" everywhere that Jews were being exterminated, and that they thought it was swell? And that German civilians mostly agreed, to the extent that they opposed punishment of leading Nazis after the war? And it wasn't even just Germans: non-Jewish Poles notoriously refused to help the Jewish resistance, and even killed Jews themselves, spontaneously?
But sure, let's make a game about a good Nazi.
posted by Joe in Australia at 3:25 PM on June 25, 2017 [22 favorites]
Does the author not realise that there were "young Nazi recruits" everywhere that Jews were being exterminated, and that they thought it was swell? And that German civilians mostly agreed, to the extent that they opposed punishment of leading Nazis after the war? And it wasn't even just Germans: non-Jewish Poles notoriously refused to help the Jewish resistance, and even killed Jews themselves, spontaneously?
But sure, let's make a game about a good Nazi.
posted by Joe in Australia at 3:25 PM on June 25, 2017 [22 favorites]
I mean, I'd never say killing Nazis in videogames is a bad thing, but I will admit that I am getting a little bored of it. After finally playing CoD: Advanced Warfare on the weekend (and having a blast), I am kind of actively not-looking-forward-to Wolfenstein II and Call of Duty WWII, because why not Call of Duty: The Expanse? WHY NOT? Yes I know there is Infinite Warfare and I am going to get that this week, but I guess my point is, Nazis are pretty boring. In Advanced Warfare you kill a little bit of everybody!
posted by turbid dahlia at 3:30 PM on June 25, 2017
posted by turbid dahlia at 3:30 PM on June 25, 2017
Nazis! I hate these guys...
posted by littlejohnnyjewel at 3:57 PM on June 25, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by littlejohnnyjewel at 3:57 PM on June 25, 2017 [2 favorites]
Nazi-killing videogames bring families together.
posted by lemonadeheretic at 4:10 PM on June 25, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by lemonadeheretic at 4:10 PM on June 25, 2017 [2 favorites]
Given how trivial this substitution is (and many like it, try e.g. "SJW") and how obviously silly and unpleasant its end result, I'd pick another type of counterargument.
"Anobject orkleton at rest bisblue stays at rest bisblue and an object orkleton in motion parnder stays in motion parnder."
Gee, with this simple substitution, Newton's First Law is complete nonsense. Checkmate, physicists!
posted by kmz at 4:14 PM on June 25, 2017 [22 favorites]
"An
Gee, with this simple substitution, Newton's First Law is complete nonsense. Checkmate, physicists!
posted by kmz at 4:14 PM on June 25, 2017 [22 favorites]
I mean, I'd never say killing Nazis in videogames is a bad thing, but I will admit that I am getting a little bored of it.
Other than Wolfenstein: New Order, what recent video game has you killing Nazis? The last one I can think of is COD: World at War, from 2008, almost ten years ago.
posted by kmz at 4:15 PM on June 25, 2017
Other than Wolfenstein: New Order, what recent video game has you killing Nazis? The last one I can think of is COD: World at War, from 2008, almost ten years ago.
posted by kmz at 4:15 PM on June 25, 2017
Seems like the 2000s were the big decade of Nazi killing games, recently at least. But they'll never be too much out of style.
posted by Artw at 4:43 PM on June 25, 2017
posted by Artw at 4:43 PM on June 25, 2017
Does the author not realise that there were "young Nazi recruits" everywhere that Jews were being exterminated, and that they thought it was swell?
I mean, there's a lot of fascinating stories about the Wehrmacht vs the SS vs the old aristocracy but that's not what people are fucking complaining about, they're just upset that you have a video game opportunity to kill fascists and I am just so fucking tired of their goddamn bullshit. So fucking tired, like I cannot even imagine how much of a fucker you must be to think this is the most pressing problem affecting America right now.
posted by corb at 4:43 PM on June 25, 2017 [13 favorites]
I mean, there's a lot of fascinating stories about the Wehrmacht vs the SS vs the old aristocracy but that's not what people are fucking complaining about, they're just upset that you have a video game opportunity to kill fascists and I am just so fucking tired of their goddamn bullshit. So fucking tired, like I cannot even imagine how much of a fucker you must be to think this is the most pressing problem affecting America right now.
posted by corb at 4:43 PM on June 25, 2017 [13 favorites]
/works up outline for The Sound of Music FPS/stealth game.
posted by Artw at 4:45 PM on June 25, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by Artw at 4:45 PM on June 25, 2017 [9 favorites]
/works up outline for The Sound of Music FPS/stealth game.
Featuring Toejam and Earl.
posted by Fizz at 5:00 PM on June 25, 2017 [9 favorites]
Featuring Toejam and Earl.
posted by Fizz at 5:00 PM on June 25, 2017 [9 favorites]
When Captain Von Trapp is forced to take command of a top secret Nazi airship, he secretly teaches his children how to operate it, and they fight their way through the Luftwaffe to freedom
They also like to sing
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:01 PM on June 25, 2017 [11 favorites]
They also like to sing
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:01 PM on June 25, 2017 [11 favorites]
Mainly I just want to smack Rolfe.
posted by Artw at 5:02 PM on June 25, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by Artw at 5:02 PM on June 25, 2017 [8 favorites]
Remember when they had to go back and fight Nazis in Galactica 1980?
posted by lagomorphius at 5:50 PM on June 25, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by lagomorphius at 5:50 PM on June 25, 2017 [1 favorite]
But at least in this case, the game's narrative directly addresses some of this American oorah-isms; you can see it in this cutscene, starring Jimmy Literally Hendrix, confronting the protagonist about the state of affairs in America as someone who isn't white.
That was pretty great! I think I'm just failing to comprehend this strange new reality where of all things Wolfenstein is nuanced and creative.
posted by byanyothername at 5:57 PM on June 25, 2017 [6 favorites]
That was pretty great! I think I'm just failing to comprehend this strange new reality where of all things Wolfenstein is nuanced and creative.
posted by byanyothername at 5:57 PM on June 25, 2017 [6 favorites]
That's how you get me to pre-order a game!
As someone who occupied Germany as an infantryman, and who as a child lived in West Berlin while his father occupied Germany, I'd like to raise a quick glass to "Fuck you, nazis." Germany as a nation regrets losing the war, but there are plenty of "militaria shows" and memorabilia lying around once you get to meet the locals. The old song rings true. But all your "purity" got your ass kicked once, and would again.
And Illinois nazis? Double fuck you.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 6:08 PM on June 25, 2017 [12 favorites]
As someone who occupied Germany as an infantryman, and who as a child lived in West Berlin while his father occupied Germany, I'd like to raise a quick glass to "Fuck you, nazis." Germany as a nation regrets losing the war, but there are plenty of "militaria shows" and memorabilia lying around once you get to meet the locals. The old song rings true. But all your "purity" got your ass kicked once, and would again.
And Illinois nazis? Double fuck you.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 6:08 PM on June 25, 2017 [12 favorites]
Relevant random Internet comment:
JPNunez says:posted by meehawl at 6:17 PM on June 25, 2017 [16 favorites]
February 10, 2017 at 6:57 pm
Well back in the time of their grandparents, fighting nazis with guns was legal and the government even paid you to do so, providing you with weapons, transport and training for it.
But afterwards there was a huge amount of legislation making difficult or even impossible to fight nazis legally, essentially subsidizing nazism. That’s why this generation needs safe space, cause the government took away their right to shoot nazis.
If you deregulated nazi fighting our generation would quickly be shooting nazis in the face as their grandparents did.
Is there a game where you can just slap the shit out of characters than look and sound like Richard Spencer, Sebastain Gorka, or Steve Bannon. Because I would pay money for that.
posted by Ber at 2:21 PM on June 25 [4 favorites +] [!]
I'm not sure, but here's where I'd look: Games vs Nazis was a weeklong anti-nazi game jam that took place between February 6 and February 13, 2017! The theme was Punch Nazis.
posted by one for the books at 6:20 PM on June 25, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Ber at 2:21 PM on June 25 [4 favorites +] [!]
I'm not sure, but here's where I'd look: Games vs Nazis was a weeklong anti-nazi game jam that took place between February 6 and February 13, 2017! The theme was Punch Nazis.
posted by one for the books at 6:20 PM on June 25, 2017 [3 favorites]
MetaFilter: The theme was Punch Nazis.
posted by Fizz at 6:38 PM on June 25, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Fizz at 6:38 PM on June 25, 2017 [4 favorites]
Is there a game where you can just slap the shit out of characters than look and sound like Richard Spencer, Sebastain Gorka, or Steve Bannon. Because I would pay money for that.
I'm working on a vr game where you throw rotton food at zombies with Trump's face on them.
posted by Jalliah at 6:52 PM on June 25, 2017 [1 favorite]
I'm working on a vr game where you throw rotton food at zombies with Trump's face on them.
posted by Jalliah at 6:52 PM on June 25, 2017 [1 favorite]
I think I'm just failing to comprehend this strange new reality where of all things Wolfenstein is nuanced and creative.Well, it seems to have a lot to do with giving it to the team that made Chronicles of Riddick: Escape from Butcher's Bay. That team demonstrated they had a lot of talent when it came to taking a ridiculous setting completely seriously and caring about the details, even if that setting involves amoral "badasses" in space jail or an ascendent Nazi empire complete with robot dogs. In Wolfenstein's case, that means little set pieces about the Nazi's actual ideology instead of treating them as a generic evil force. It means making their cruelty relevant to the game systems and incidentally making sequences that sound absolutely amazing. The New Colossus apparently has a wheelchair sequence!
Honestly I'm just glad to see someone reinvent Wolfenstein in a way that feels like it has a reason to exist.
posted by Merus at 8:00 PM on June 25, 2017 [5 favorites]
I'm working on a vr game where you throw rotton food at zombies with Trump's face on them.
In other words, dinner at Mar-a-Lago.
posted by Joe in Australia at 8:03 PM on June 25, 2017 [7 favorites]
In other words, dinner at Mar-a-Lago.
posted by Joe in Australia at 8:03 PM on June 25, 2017 [7 favorites]
I don't know if it's OK to self-link to MeFi Music in comment threads, but I recorded a song about a month ago that's extremely pertinent to this thread.
posted by valrus at 10:02 PM on June 25, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by valrus at 10:02 PM on June 25, 2017 [4 favorites]
infini, thanks for that comment. As a now-better-behaved ex-hacker and white male, my online experience is almost certainly very very different to yours. It's been maddening and sickening to observe the evolution of hacker culture since the mid-90s or so - from the original ethos of curiosity, community and freedom from arbitrary restrictions to one of pointless-though-at-least-internal hacker clan feuds to the shift from IRC wars to 4chan and utter idiocy and the targeting of non-hackers and large chunks of the "community" being coopted by foreign influences. (If I could be reborn 15 years earlier than I was, and in California, I do it in a heartbeat, just to experience the better bits.)
So I needed to hear that perspective. Your comment also reminds me I did something insensitive yesterday - I laughed at a comment another WoC made, when that wasn't an amazing response, even if I'm laughing out of derision for people who are being ignorant and stupid rather than at her. So I need to apologise for that. Thanks!
ANYWAY. I need to go get a gaming PC, because I've been a fan of Wolfenstein ever since the original Wolf3D. That game was fantastic - the boss at the end of episode 1 with the double miniguns and the impressively scary laughter, the hidden passages, the clever pseudo-ray tracing. *nostalgic sigh*
posted by iffthen at 11:14 PM on June 25, 2017 [2 favorites]
So I needed to hear that perspective. Your comment also reminds me I did something insensitive yesterday - I laughed at a comment another WoC made, when that wasn't an amazing response, even if I'm laughing out of derision for people who are being ignorant and stupid rather than at her. So I need to apologise for that. Thanks!
ANYWAY. I need to go get a gaming PC, because I've been a fan of Wolfenstein ever since the original Wolf3D. That game was fantastic - the boss at the end of episode 1 with the double miniguns and the impressively scary laughter, the hidden passages, the clever pseudo-ray tracing. *nostalgic sigh*
posted by iffthen at 11:14 PM on June 25, 2017 [2 favorites]
It turns out that, yes Hans, you are the baddies.
posted by quinndexter at 1:57 AM on June 26, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by quinndexter at 1:57 AM on June 26, 2017 [11 favorites]
Who gives a fuck what this bunch of sad sacks of shit think about anything.
posted by GallonOfAlan at 2:02 AM on June 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by GallonOfAlan at 2:02 AM on June 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
iffthen, thank you for your comment. A glimmer of hope perhaps, if you're able to speak out on this reflective turn in your thinking among the communities you are/were a part of.
IoT makes it worse - no security whatsoever yet you're surrounded by devices and sensors.
posted by infini at 2:12 AM on June 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
IoT makes it worse - no security whatsoever yet you're surrounded by devices and sensors.
posted by infini at 2:12 AM on June 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
otoh, given that I work immersed in this kind of environment, my own approach to some semblance of security (given my lack of skillz) is to use 5 year old Nokia feature phones and laptops from 2009. it's the uses of IoT that got me this time, imagine your daily commute turning into no man's land
posted by infini at 2:15 AM on June 26, 2017
posted by infini at 2:15 AM on June 26, 2017
Mod note: One deleted. I don't know, man, is (basically) "I agree with the Nazis; killing the brown people is much more creative and artistic" what you really want to go for here? If not maybe rethink what you are trying to say. If so, you are seriously on the wrong site altogether.
posted by taz (staff) at 4:10 AM on June 26, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by taz (staff) at 4:10 AM on June 26, 2017 [10 favorites]
muffles brown person lols
posted by infini at 6:22 AM on June 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by infini at 6:22 AM on June 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
Nazi era board games.
Shooting a photonic Nazi means more good things.
posted by clavdivs at 6:36 AM on June 26, 2017
Shooting a photonic Nazi means more good things.
posted by clavdivs at 6:36 AM on June 26, 2017
Actually, it's about ethics in games featuring Nazis.
posted by Fizz at 6:37 AM on June 26, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Fizz at 6:37 AM on June 26, 2017 [5 favorites]
Yes, and rapid fire moral imperatives is the R1 button.
posted by clavdivs at 6:46 AM on June 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by clavdivs at 6:46 AM on June 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
20 Years of Killin' Nazis: A Retrospective
Only 20 years? Hah! I was killin' Nazis on the computer before it was cool.
posted by Halloween Jack at 7:53 AM on June 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
Only 20 years? Hah! I was killin' Nazis on the computer before it was cool.
posted by Halloween Jack at 7:53 AM on June 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
Only 20 years? Hah! I was killin' Nazis on the computer before it was cool.But were you there when we were fighting the blue peril?
posted by zenoli at 8:06 AM on June 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
I love their defense of "Castle Smurfenstein":
we were minors
it was over 25 years ago
we were creating a parody
we did not make any profit from its creation
we owned a copy of the original Castle Wolfenstein bought at full retail price(and STILL have the box and disk to prove it)
and I don't think we even had to break any of the copy protection to make our alterations
posted by Halloween Jack at 9:07 AM on June 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
we were minors
it was over 25 years ago
we were creating a parody
we did not make any profit from its creation
we owned a copy of the original Castle Wolfenstein bought at full retail price(and STILL have the box and disk to prove it)
and I don't think we even had to break any of the copy protection to make our alterations
posted by Halloween Jack at 9:07 AM on June 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
This bizarre version of classical liberalism where justice means acting like ideas have no histories invariably manifests as its own reductio ad absurdum.
Maybe this deserves it's own topic, but as someone who is studying classical liberalism and classical republicanism in grad school I have so many thoughts about this. Part of what I'm interested in is the concept of political-intellectual paradigm shift, as described by J.G.A. Pocock in The Machiavellian Moment (Pocock borrowed the concept from Thomas Kuhn). Working on my research and reading about the Alt Right side by side can be mind-boggling at times. It sounds melodramatic I guess, but sometimes I feel like I'm studying the beginning of liberalism while living at the end of liberalism.
posted by shield_maiden at 9:50 AM on June 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
Maybe this deserves it's own topic, but as someone who is studying classical liberalism and classical republicanism in grad school I have so many thoughts about this. Part of what I'm interested in is the concept of political-intellectual paradigm shift, as described by J.G.A. Pocock in The Machiavellian Moment (Pocock borrowed the concept from Thomas Kuhn). Working on my research and reading about the Alt Right side by side can be mind-boggling at times. It sounds melodramatic I guess, but sometimes I feel like I'm studying the beginning of liberalism while living at the end of liberalism.
posted by shield_maiden at 9:50 AM on June 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
Other than Wolfenstein: New Order, what recent video game has you killing Nazis? The last one I can think of is COD: World at War, from 2008, almost ten years ago.
They've been cranking out Sniper Elites the last few years if you'd like to see the exact path a bullet makes as it passes through a Nazi's skull.
posted by Copronymus at 10:17 AM on June 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
They've been cranking out Sniper Elites the last few years if you'd like to see the exact path a bullet makes as it passes through a Nazi's skull.
posted by Copronymus at 10:17 AM on June 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
Who's complaining? Three idiots on Youtube and 4chan. The whole Alt-Right thing was just suprematist assholes arguing with echoes. Which was great until someone decided they could be scary and put them in the news, and some assholes go to be figureheads to get more mouth breathers over to the 'White people is best' camp. Now every time they get mentioned, they gain unearned legitimacy.
They shouldn't be mentioned the same way terrorists shouldn't be mentioned, even in passing as it gives the idiots something to strive for.
So... the New Statesman is either really, really stupid, or whoring themselves to promote the new Wolfenstein chapter. Either way they should fuck off, and everyone should shut up about it.
posted by Zack_Replica at 11:31 AM on June 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
They shouldn't be mentioned the same way terrorists shouldn't be mentioned, even in passing as it gives the idiots something to strive for.
So... the New Statesman is either really, really stupid, or whoring themselves to promote the new Wolfenstein chapter. Either way they should fuck off, and everyone should shut up about it.
posted by Zack_Replica at 11:31 AM on June 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
Are you posting from the world where the Alt-Right's God-Emperor didn't win the US presidential election? And where the Alt-Right's propaganda hasn't inspired a bevy of stochastic terrorists to commit violence against women, queer people, and people of colour around them? How do I get over there?
I mean, sure, don't ascribe to them power and reach they don't have... but don't ignore the fascist bastards, either.
posted by tobascodagama at 11:41 AM on June 26, 2017 [7 favorites]
I mean, sure, don't ascribe to them power and reach they don't have... but don't ignore the fascist bastards, either.
posted by tobascodagama at 11:41 AM on June 26, 2017 [7 favorites]
Just a heads-up, since nobody's mentioned it. The Wolfenstein games are currently all going cheap on the current Steam sale. In particular, you can get the first three (Wolfenstein 3D, Spear of Destiny and Return to Castle Wolfenstein) for around three bucks.
posted by suetanvil at 1:06 PM on June 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by suetanvil at 1:06 PM on June 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
Just a heads-up, since nobody's mentioned it. The Wolfenstein games are currently all going cheap on the current Steam sale. In particular, you can get the first three (Wolfenstein 3D, Spear of Destiny and Return to Castle Wolfenstein) for around three bucks.
Why did I buy a Mac? Whhyyyyyyyyyyyyy?
posted by kewb at 2:38 PM on June 26, 2017
Why did I buy a Mac? Whhyyyyyyyyyyyyy?
posted by kewb at 2:38 PM on June 26, 2017
I think someone should make a Hugo Stiglitz [insert riff] inspired game. It could be a stealthier version of that fun as needlessly violent Punisher game for the PS2.
Wolfenstein 3D didn't just kickstart a genre. It started a sub-genre while it was at it: WWII shooters.
I have to disagree with them here. While it did start the FPS craze, and in here "mata-nazis" (nazi killer, literally) was shorthand for what would become "doom clone" for a few years until Quake and then Half-Life came out, Medal of Honor is the true origin of WWII FPS. Between Wolf3D/SoD and MoH the only WWII games were mostly dry-as-fuck, turn-based strategy games (Panzer General, Close Combat, Great Naval Battles, a couple of KOEI titles, etc etc), stealth games (Commandos and H&D) or flight simulators (Air Warrior II, Overlord, Reach for the Skies, etc).
Sure, it was the historical predecessor and still the finest game where you can shove a gatling gun on Hitler, but to "start the sub-genre" it needed a follow-up sooner than 7 years, and only after MoH was popular everyone with a decent 3D engine wanted in for the next 6-7 years.
Why did I buy a Mac? Whhyyyyyyyyyyyyy?
Wolf3D and SoD probably run on Boxer. According to someone on GoG, RtCW has Mac binaries, soooo...
posted by lmfsilva at 4:02 PM on June 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
Wolfenstein 3D didn't just kickstart a genre. It started a sub-genre while it was at it: WWII shooters.
I have to disagree with them here. While it did start the FPS craze, and in here "mata-nazis" (nazi killer, literally) was shorthand for what would become "doom clone" for a few years until Quake and then Half-Life came out, Medal of Honor is the true origin of WWII FPS. Between Wolf3D/SoD and MoH the only WWII games were mostly dry-as-fuck, turn-based strategy games (Panzer General, Close Combat, Great Naval Battles, a couple of KOEI titles, etc etc), stealth games (Commandos and H&D) or flight simulators (Air Warrior II, Overlord, Reach for the Skies, etc).
Sure, it was the historical predecessor and still the finest game where you can shove a gatling gun on Hitler, but to "start the sub-genre" it needed a follow-up sooner than 7 years, and only after MoH was popular everyone with a decent 3D engine wanted in for the next 6-7 years.
Why did I buy a Mac? Whhyyyyyyyyyyyyy?
Wolf3D and SoD probably run on Boxer. According to someone on GoG, RtCW has Mac binaries, soooo...
posted by lmfsilva at 4:02 PM on June 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
I did most of my old school Wolfensteining on Mac. Thats also where I did all my bets level designing for it, including The Very Long Tunnel Where You Run Out of Ammo and Have to Stab Dogs, my masterpiece.
Really now it seems like a missed opportunity, I mean, the dogs haven't done anything.
posted by Artw at 4:36 PM on June 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
Really now it seems like a missed opportunity, I mean, the dogs haven't done anything.
posted by Artw at 4:36 PM on June 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
I wonder how they feel about /The Blues Brothers/.
posted by nickzoic at 6:31 AM on June 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by nickzoic at 6:31 AM on June 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
According to someone on GoG, RtCW has Mac binaries, soooo...
Yeah, Id was always good with open-sourcing their older engines. RTCW is still being maintained at this github with binary releases here, so it should be possible to get working. Steam doesn't support it though, so you'll either need to get the GOG version or use a PC to download RTCW for Windows, copy the data files over and play it that way.
I actually played RTCW to completion when it came out due to a combination of owning an up-to-date computer at the time and there being a Linux port. I also found (and maybe still have?) a fan-made mod that adds an entire new set of missions, including new cut-scenes.
posted by suetanvil at 6:01 PM on June 27, 2017
Yeah, Id was always good with open-sourcing their older engines. RTCW is still being maintained at this github with binary releases here, so it should be possible to get working. Steam doesn't support it though, so you'll either need to get the GOG version or use a PC to download RTCW for Windows, copy the data files over and play it that way.
I actually played RTCW to completion when it came out due to a combination of owning an up-to-date computer at the time and there being a Linux port. I also found (and maybe still have?) a fan-made mod that adds an entire new set of missions, including new cut-scenes.
posted by suetanvil at 6:01 PM on June 27, 2017
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posted by meehawl at 12:01 PM on June 25, 2017 [11 favorites]