Parody rights on making fun of houses
June 28, 2017 9:45 AM Subscribe
Blogger Kate Wagner, known for McMansion Hell which educates and critiques McMansion architecture, was served with a cease and desist from Zillow, just as the McMansion is coming back into style. Thanks to efforts from the EFF, the blog is back up. McMansion Hell, previously, previouslier.
Yay! I'm so glad she got legal help. I love that blog, and the C&D seems pretty freaking baseless.
posted by showbiz_liz at 9:49 AM on June 28, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by showbiz_liz at 9:49 AM on June 28, 2017 [12 favorites]
That blog is both hilarious and informative. I support her through patreon. Yay! (And Zillow: eat sh*t!)
posted by victotronics at 10:01 AM on June 28, 2017
posted by victotronics at 10:01 AM on June 28, 2017
Looks pretty obvious to me that what Zillow's really afraid of is word getting out that if you post your house on Zillow, it might get singled out for mockery.
posted by Pope Guilty at 10:15 AM on June 28, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by Pope Guilty at 10:15 AM on June 28, 2017 [20 favorites]
The entirety of the cease and desist is a twisting of applicable law.
No, Zillow has no standing to enforce the copyrights related to the images unless given that right by the owner, which in the first instance is the entity that took the photos. Zillow knows this because it is not only basic copyright law, but also because Zillow got sued for unlicensed use of images and hit with an adverse verdict just this February.
Moreover, the law regarding violation of terms of use and the applicability of the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act even as against scrapers of websites is far from clear, and websites face an uphill battle on enforcement. Look to QVC Inc. v. Resultly LLC and how that turned out (it ultimately settled). This blog does not scrape Zillow, causes no harm to its uptime or infrastructure, and does not divert business from Zillow as a competitor.
My guess is that internally Zillow knew that the letter was on unsolid ground, hence the very careful wording in some parts regarding ownership of copyright and so forth, but thought they could scare the blogger through show of force. Might makes right. I find it horrid.
The chances that there is a legit case that can survive against this blogger are slim to none, in my opinion, and Zillow should have known better. Why it thought this was a good idea is beyond me. They need better practical advice in their legal advice. This was a ready made PR disaster.
posted by Muddler at 10:16 AM on June 28, 2017 [56 favorites]
No, Zillow has no standing to enforce the copyrights related to the images unless given that right by the owner, which in the first instance is the entity that took the photos. Zillow knows this because it is not only basic copyright law, but also because Zillow got sued for unlicensed use of images and hit with an adverse verdict just this February.
Moreover, the law regarding violation of terms of use and the applicability of the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act even as against scrapers of websites is far from clear, and websites face an uphill battle on enforcement. Look to QVC Inc. v. Resultly LLC and how that turned out (it ultimately settled). This blog does not scrape Zillow, causes no harm to its uptime or infrastructure, and does not divert business from Zillow as a competitor.
My guess is that internally Zillow knew that the letter was on unsolid ground, hence the very careful wording in some parts regarding ownership of copyright and so forth, but thought they could scare the blogger through show of force. Might makes right. I find it horrid.
The chances that there is a legit case that can survive against this blogger are slim to none, in my opinion, and Zillow should have known better. Why it thought this was a good idea is beyond me. They need better practical advice in their legal advice. This was a ready made PR disaster.
posted by Muddler at 10:16 AM on June 28, 2017 [56 favorites]
How her posts in any way affect Zillow I struggle to understand. It's not Zillow that the McMansion Hell blog is satirizing. I never thought, "Zillow! Ha-HA!" when I read it. I wonder if this isn't some "Any publicity is good publicity" strategy they have, and sought out a person they thought they could bully.
As it is, I think they are a terrible site and leave listings there up long after the properties in question are sold or rented. I learned quickly that they're near-useless when I was apartment hunting in 2013. I ended up using an agent.
posted by droplet at 10:21 AM on June 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
As it is, I think they are a terrible site and leave listings there up long after the properties in question are sold or rented. I learned quickly that they're near-useless when I was apartment hunting in 2013. I ended up using an agent.
posted by droplet at 10:21 AM on June 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
Pure speculation, but I wonder if Zillow wasn't getting stick from the high end real estate agents who represent these homes and are likely the copyright owners of the photos. Real estate agents are what ultimately pays Zillow's bills; if enough of Zillow's sharks were calling up the head of sales over there and bitching about how Zillow was "allowing" this blogger to scrape their photos and make fun of them, threatening to pull their listings off the site, that might be enough to get execs at Zillow to tell legal to send her a knock it off letter.
After all, at the end of the day, I suspect it's no skin off Zillow's nose whether people are clicking the site to shop for homes or make fun of them, as long as they click.
posted by Diablevert at 10:24 AM on June 28, 2017 [10 favorites]
After all, at the end of the day, I suspect it's no skin off Zillow's nose whether people are clicking the site to shop for homes or make fun of them, as long as they click.
posted by Diablevert at 10:24 AM on June 28, 2017 [10 favorites]
> just as the McMansion is coming back into style.
Surely this is a great sign for the economy's future.
posted by rokusan at 10:25 AM on June 28, 2017 [8 favorites]
Surely this is a great sign for the economy's future.
posted by rokusan at 10:25 AM on June 28, 2017 [8 favorites]
There really ought to be some penalty for using extravagant, false legal threats to bully the weak.
It has become so expensive for ordinary people to vindicate their rights that most people have no choice but to comply with a corporate nastygram, no matter how ludicrous the legal theory.
posted by grobstein at 10:26 AM on June 28, 2017 [53 favorites]
It has become so expensive for ordinary people to vindicate their rights that most people have no choice but to comply with a corporate nastygram, no matter how ludicrous the legal theory.
posted by grobstein at 10:26 AM on June 28, 2017 [53 favorites]
Big businesses and expensive law firms get to make up their own versions of the law, as long as the other private parties don't have the resources to fight.
posted by grobstein at 10:28 AM on June 28, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by grobstein at 10:28 AM on June 28, 2017 [15 favorites]
There really ought to be some penalty for using extravagant, false legal threats to bully the weak.
It has become so expensive for ordinary people to vindicate their rights that most people have no choice but to comply with a corporate nastygram, no matter how ludicrous the legal theory.
There has been some movement by AGs and with state laws targeting trolling letters.
posted by Muddler at 10:35 AM on June 28, 2017 [15 favorites]
It has become so expensive for ordinary people to vindicate their rights that most people have no choice but to comply with a corporate nastygram, no matter how ludicrous the legal theory.
There has been some movement by AGs and with state laws targeting trolling letters.
posted by Muddler at 10:35 AM on June 28, 2017 [15 favorites]
My guess is that internally Zillow knew that the letter was on unsolid ground, hence the very careful wording in some parts regarding ownership of copyright and so forth, but thought they could scare the blogger through show of force. Might makes right. I find it horrid.
The chances that there is a legit case that can survive against this blogger are slim to none, in my opinion, and Zillow should have known better. Why it thought this was a good idea is beyond me. They need better practical advice in their legal advice. This was a ready made PR disaster.
If it wasn't for the EFF, it sounds like it might actually have worked, is the thing.
I'm not that familiar with the EFF, but I do know a bit about the Organization for Transformative Works, which apparently often works collaboratively with EFF. It provides similar representation to people who make fanart and fanfic, etc. A couple of decades ago, people who posted their fanfic online were frequently sent takedown notices and threatened with lawsuits by authors, and OTW was a big part of helping to change that culture and protect people from frivolous lawsuits they couldn't afford to fight. Organizations like OTW and EFF are heroes.
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:37 AM on June 28, 2017 [28 favorites]
The chances that there is a legit case that can survive against this blogger are slim to none, in my opinion, and Zillow should have known better. Why it thought this was a good idea is beyond me. They need better practical advice in their legal advice. This was a ready made PR disaster.
If it wasn't for the EFF, it sounds like it might actually have worked, is the thing.
I'm not that familiar with the EFF, but I do know a bit about the Organization for Transformative Works, which apparently often works collaboratively with EFF. It provides similar representation to people who make fanart and fanfic, etc. A couple of decades ago, people who posted their fanfic online were frequently sent takedown notices and threatened with lawsuits by authors, and OTW was a big part of helping to change that culture and protect people from frivolous lawsuits they couldn't afford to fight. Organizations like OTW and EFF are heroes.
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:37 AM on June 28, 2017 [28 favorites]
For some reason, I've never actually looked at the McMansion Hell blog. It's fantastic.
And, booooo to big companies bullying. Now I definitely think poorly of Zillow, and will avoid them when snooping houses around my neighborhood.
posted by Fig at 10:38 AM on June 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
And, booooo to big companies bullying. Now I definitely think poorly of Zillow, and will avoid them when snooping houses around my neighborhood.
posted by Fig at 10:38 AM on June 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
There really ought to be some penalty for using extravagant, false legal threats to bully the weak.
It has become so expensive for ordinary people to vindicate their rights that most people have no choice but to comply with a corporate nastygram, no matter how ludicrous the legal theory.
There has been some movement by AGs and with state laws targeting trolling letters.
That works well in the world of paper letters with easy addresses and not megalithic corporations like Zillow. Now, we move on into the world of the internet and massive media companies that spew DMCAs at every perceived slight and a morass of rights laws, and a content creator can't post a Twitter plea and expect such effective help.
posted by Samizdata at 10:45 AM on June 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
It has become so expensive for ordinary people to vindicate their rights that most people have no choice but to comply with a corporate nastygram, no matter how ludicrous the legal theory.
There has been some movement by AGs and with state laws targeting trolling letters.
That works well in the world of paper letters with easy addresses and not megalithic corporations like Zillow. Now, we move on into the world of the internet and massive media companies that spew DMCAs at every perceived slight and a morass of rights laws, and a content creator can't post a Twitter plea and expect such effective help.
posted by Samizdata at 10:45 AM on June 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
There really ought to be some penalty for using extravagant, false legal threats to bully the weak.
Depending on where you are, there are anti-SLAPP laws.
posted by maxsparber at 11:42 AM on June 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
Depending on where you are, there are anti-SLAPP laws.
posted by maxsparber at 11:42 AM on June 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
Sad that the cease and desist letter didn't have extraneous turrets and columns and garage bays on it.
posted by goatdog at 11:50 AM on June 28, 2017 [22 favorites]
posted by goatdog at 11:50 AM on June 28, 2017 [22 favorites]
Sad that the cease and desist letter didn't have extraneous turrets and columns and garage bays on it.
Presumably it was written in a lawyer foyer.
posted by Pope Guilty at 11:52 AM on June 28, 2017 [30 favorites]
Presumably it was written in a lawyer foyer.
posted by Pope Guilty at 11:52 AM on June 28, 2017 [30 favorites]
Holy crap, the philosophy posts alone are worth the time sink; "lolz look at the $800K pringles can" is just the icing on the cake. Good on the EFF for helping this blog out.
My wife and I went to visit a local property last weekend, the remnant of a thoroughbred training estate, open to tours for the first time in many years. Today this home is a rare example of pre-war L.A. architecture that hasn't been modernized and is livable even without central air. Back then it was the first SFV McMansion (and how; faux-Ireland obsession down to the kelly green walls, mirrors everywhere, can-can dancer wallpaper, even a three-car garage). Fortunately the attentions of two star architects (starchitects?) kept it livable; the cross-breezes on the second floor are terrific.
Modern McMansions do have some utility; as the cost of real estate skyrockets, lots of families are buying/building these humungous eyesores and housing extended families in them. I sympathize with big families buying bigger homes.
posted by infinitewindow at 12:17 PM on June 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
My wife and I went to visit a local property last weekend, the remnant of a thoroughbred training estate, open to tours for the first time in many years. Today this home is a rare example of pre-war L.A. architecture that hasn't been modernized and is livable even without central air. Back then it was the first SFV McMansion (and how; faux-Ireland obsession down to the kelly green walls, mirrors everywhere, can-can dancer wallpaper, even a three-car garage). Fortunately the attentions of two star architects (starchitects?) kept it livable; the cross-breezes on the second floor are terrific.
Modern McMansions do have some utility; as the cost of real estate skyrockets, lots of families are buying/building these humungous eyesores and housing extended families in them. I sympathize with big families buying bigger homes.
posted by infinitewindow at 12:17 PM on June 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
maxsparber: unfortunately anti-SLAPP is only once a lawsuit as been filed. With the exception of where the reciever of a C&D files a case seeking a declaratory judgement that they don't infringe, there's little legal downside to sending out C&D letters.
posted by nobeagle at 12:34 PM on June 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by nobeagle at 12:34 PM on June 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
Well boo.
posted by maxsparber at 12:38 PM on June 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by maxsparber at 12:38 PM on June 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
Boo I say.
posted by maxsparber at 12:38 PM on June 28, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by maxsparber at 12:38 PM on June 28, 2017 [11 favorites]
Sad that the cease and desist letter didn't have extraneous turrets and columns and garage bays on it.
On cursory reading I note unnecessarily bolded defined terms, inconsistently numbered sentence sub-parts, and an unsupported claim that the use fails on all four prongs of a fair use test. It could be worse, but there are a couple of decorative "columns" supporting nothing and some out of proportion shutters happening here.
posted by Tentacle of Trust at 12:45 PM on June 28, 2017 [18 favorites]
On cursory reading I note unnecessarily bolded defined terms, inconsistently numbered sentence sub-parts, and an unsupported claim that the use fails on all four prongs of a fair use test. It could be worse, but there are a couple of decorative "columns" supporting nothing and some out of proportion shutters happening here.
posted by Tentacle of Trust at 12:45 PM on June 28, 2017 [18 favorites]
Hellllooooo Streisand effecccct. Man, the echo in this McMansion is amazing.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 12:48 PM on June 28, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 12:48 PM on June 28, 2017 [10 favorites]
Presumably it was written in a lawyer foyer.
Something something rural juror?
posted by rokusan at 12:48 PM on June 28, 2017 [9 favorites]
Something something rural juror?
posted by rokusan at 12:48 PM on June 28, 2017 [9 favorites]
The first thing I thought of when I saw the cease and desist earlier was, "this is the kind of thing the EFF loves to chew up and spit out," glad she found her way to their front door.
posted by AzraelBrown at 12:50 PM on June 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by AzraelBrown at 12:50 PM on June 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
It's been posted already but bears repeating: the description of her blog as "educational" and "criticism" are not hyperbole. In between the lulz there is a lot of really interesting and informative posts about the history/theory of house architecture in the US.
posted by quaking fajita at 12:53 PM on June 28, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by quaking fajita at 12:53 PM on June 28, 2017 [20 favorites]
I saw this earlier this morning. The best part is that Zillow doesn't even own the rights to those photos that they're wanting to put a stop to.
They're citing it as a violation of the terms of service (specifically §2.1), though, and suggest that she may also be in dutch with the Feds and the copyright holders. I think these suggestions are added to show This Is Srs Bizness.
I find Kate Wagner being labeled "a 23-Year-Old Woman" as in "A 23-Year-Old Woman Shut Down Her Real Estate Blog After Zillow Threatened Her" is kind of oogie as I expect both of those descriptors are supposed to drive my agita. I'm not sure if that's grosser of Buzzfeed or of cultural tendencies as a whole.
posted by Ogre Lawless at 12:58 PM on June 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
They're citing it as a violation of the terms of service (specifically §2.1), though, and suggest that she may also be in dutch with the Feds and the copyright holders. I think these suggestions are added to show This Is Srs Bizness.
I find Kate Wagner being labeled "a 23-Year-Old Woman" as in "A 23-Year-Old Woman Shut Down Her Real Estate Blog After Zillow Threatened Her" is kind of oogie as I expect both of those descriptors are supposed to drive my agita. I'm not sure if that's grosser of Buzzfeed or of cultural tendencies as a whole.
posted by Ogre Lawless at 12:58 PM on June 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
The Verge published Zillow's follow up letter. It doesn't apologize to Wagner, but it amazingly weakens its case (emphasis mine):
"As for why we requested you remove the photos from Zillow – we do not own the rights to many of the photos on our site, and therefore can’t give permission for third parties, such as yourself, to take the photos from our website for any purpose. We get them from brokerages and MLSs who are advertising homes for sale and through those agreements we have an obligation to protect the interest of the copyright holders who license the images to Zillow."
As it is, I think they are a terrible site and leave listings there up long after the properties in question are sold or rented. I learned quickly that they're near-useless when I was apartment hunting in 2013. I ended up using an agent.
I found Zillow useless when looking for a house to buy. Oddly enough, Trulia was better, yet Trulia is owned by Zillow. In the end, the combination I found successful was to search through sites like Trulia, then contact my agent to check them out for hidden details and if an offer I could afford had a chance of success.
posted by linux at 12:58 PM on June 28, 2017
"As for why we requested you remove the photos from Zillow – we do not own the rights to many of the photos on our site, and therefore can’t give permission for third parties, such as yourself, to take the photos from our website for any purpose. We get them from brokerages and MLSs who are advertising homes for sale and through those agreements we have an obligation to protect the interest of the copyright holders who license the images to Zillow."
As it is, I think they are a terrible site and leave listings there up long after the properties in question are sold or rented. I learned quickly that they're near-useless when I was apartment hunting in 2013. I ended up using an agent.
I found Zillow useless when looking for a house to buy. Oddly enough, Trulia was better, yet Trulia is owned by Zillow. In the end, the combination I found successful was to search through sites like Trulia, then contact my agent to check them out for hidden details and if an offer I could afford had a chance of success.
posted by linux at 12:58 PM on June 28, 2017
There really ought to be some penalty for using extravagant, false legal threats to bully the weak.
The Fair Debt Collection Practices Act does let you ding over-the-top bill collecting lawyers. So few things create accountability for the paperwork attorneys file.
posted by rough ashlar at 1:03 PM on June 28, 2017
The Fair Debt Collection Practices Act does let you ding over-the-top bill collecting lawyers. So few things create accountability for the paperwork attorneys file.
posted by rough ashlar at 1:03 PM on June 28, 2017
Big businesses and expensive law firms get to make up their own versions of the law, as long as the other private parties don't have the resources to fight.
When the regulators like the bar grievance investigation group back the attorney and the Judge declares 'I believe the attorney' and does not order full discovery, Big Law gets the "cover" it needs to do exactly what you are claiming.
posted by rough ashlar at 1:13 PM on June 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
When the regulators like the bar grievance investigation group back the attorney and the Judge declares 'I believe the attorney' and does not order full discovery, Big Law gets the "cover" it needs to do exactly what you are claiming.
posted by rough ashlar at 1:13 PM on June 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
That blog so makes me laugh, at the same time validly criticizing a lack of aesthetic sense in crass people.
I want to hug her and tell her she is fantastic and that the mean Zillow bully will soon be sent to the principal's office.
posted by Mental Wimp at 1:49 PM on June 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
I want to hug her and tell her she is fantastic and that the mean Zillow bully will soon be sent to the principal's office.
posted by Mental Wimp at 1:49 PM on June 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
This makes me miss Regretsy a little bit.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 1:51 PM on June 28, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 1:51 PM on June 28, 2017 [14 favorites]
But, I mean, she is in the wrong right? The fact that Zillow is not the copyright holder doesn't mean that she's not violating copyright?
posted by 256 at 2:55 PM on June 28, 2017
posted by 256 at 2:55 PM on June 28, 2017
Presumably it still falls under fair use.
posted by quaking fajita at 3:02 PM on June 28, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by quaking fajita at 3:02 PM on June 28, 2017 [7 favorites]
I love the blog and the snarky descriptions of various features; my favorite was comparing some marble trim to the sort of cocaine accessory that used to be advertised in 70s skin mags.
posted by Halloween Jack at 3:04 PM on June 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Halloween Jack at 3:04 PM on June 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
The fact that Zillow is not the copyright holder doesn't mean that she's not violating copyright?
It means that they have no more basis than you or I do to demand takedown.
posted by praemunire at 3:39 PM on June 28, 2017 [9 favorites]
It means that they have no more basis than you or I do to demand takedown.
posted by praemunire at 3:39 PM on June 28, 2017 [9 favorites]
But, I mean, she is in the wrong right? The fact that Zillow is not the copyright holder doesn't mean that she's not violating copyright?
It's almost certainly fair use. Regardless of whether it qualifies as parody, it's clearly commentary and criticism.
posted by Lexica at 3:44 PM on June 28, 2017 [7 favorites]
It's almost certainly fair use. Regardless of whether it qualifies as parody, it's clearly commentary and criticism.
posted by Lexica at 3:44 PM on June 28, 2017 [7 favorites]
As someone who has to go up and measure the pointlessly overcomplicated roofs on these things, I am all for this blog. Give me a nice simple gable roof any day; they're more space efficient, have fewer points of failure, and cost less to build and maintain compared to the Hips and Valleys and Dormers Oh My! roofs that you tend to get on McMansions. Plus they're always tall and steep. A McMansion may literally be the death of me, one of these days. That or an old Boston townhouse, which tends to have similarly complicated roofs but even steeper and with concrete all around instead of bushes.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 3:47 PM on June 28, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 3:47 PM on June 28, 2017 [13 favorites]
Huh, I had seen the McMansions 101 series but didn't realize there was a whole blog (partially) dedicated to my pastime of browsing multi-million dollar listings on Zillow to gawk at how absurd those McMansions are. Cool!
posted by noneuclidean at 4:20 PM on June 28, 2017
posted by noneuclidean at 4:20 PM on June 28, 2017
"Sad that the cease and desist letter didn't have extraneous turrets and columns and garage bays on it."
Roof nub or GTFO.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 9:35 PM on June 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
Roof nub or GTFO.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 9:35 PM on June 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
There really ought to be some penalty for using extravagant, false legal threats to bully the weak.
Yes, please! You have no idea.
posted by saulgoodman at 3:47 AM on June 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
Yes, please! You have no idea.
posted by saulgoodman at 3:47 AM on June 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
Just a word of caution about fair use: we were told at work that in the case of a photo, the commentary or parody would have to be about *the photo*, not the thing the photo depicts. In other words, yes, you can have fair use of a photo, but it's when you're writing a commentary like, "Was it ethical to take this photo?" Otherwise, anyone writing commentary about, say, a public figure could use any picture they wanted of that public figure.
So fair use, as it was explained to me, isn't just "Is the piece commentary or parody?" It's *Is the piece commentary on or parody of the work you're using?" It's confusing with photos, because people use photos to illustrate a thing they're making fun of. But it's more nuanced, as I understand it, than "If you're writing commentary, you can use any photo you want."
posted by Linda_Holmes at 3:58 AM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
So fair use, as it was explained to me, isn't just "Is the piece commentary or parody?" It's *Is the piece commentary on or parody of the work you're using?" It's confusing with photos, because people use photos to illustrate a thing they're making fun of. But it's more nuanced, as I understand it, than "If you're writing commentary, you can use any photo you want."
posted by Linda_Holmes at 3:58 AM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
Oh buhruther. Fuck Zillow, fuck bully lawsuits, fuck McMansions and their decimation of '50's and 60's neighborhood character nationwide.
I'll be glad when the light finally dawns that bigger is NOT better, and being happy with smaller is healthy across the board.
Hair trigger hot button for yours truly, apologies.
posted by yoga at 4:58 AM on June 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'll be glad when the light finally dawns that bigger is NOT better, and being happy with smaller is healthy across the board.
Hair trigger hot button for yours truly, apologies.
posted by yoga at 4:58 AM on June 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
I used to do a humor blog about real estate photos, and a huuuge portion of the submissions I was sent came from people at real estate companies; sometimes their own listings, but usually other agents'. I wish I could remember if any came from Zillow.
posted by The corpse in the library at 11:31 AM on June 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by The corpse in the library at 11:31 AM on June 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
I enjoy any blog that makes me feel better about my modest house with a very simple roofline.
posted by emjaybee at 12:49 PM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 12:49 PM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
Just for this historical record, here's EFF's letter to Zillow (PDF) (and an accompanying blog post).
posted by ntk at 3:27 PM on June 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by ntk at 3:27 PM on June 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
Kind of! It looks like Wagner had to agree to stop using their pictures though.
We have decided not to pursue any legal action against Kate Wagner and McMansion Hell. We’ve had a lot of conversations about this, including with attorneys from the EFF, whose advocacy and work we respect. EFF has stated that McMansion Hell won’t use photos from Zillow moving forward.posted by grobstein at 6:43 PM on June 29, 2017
It was never our intent for McMansion Hell to shut down, or for this to appear as an attack on Kate’s freedom of expression. We acted out of an abundance of caution to protect our partners – the agents and brokers who entrust us to display photos of their clients’ homes.
Cease and desists imply the threat of a lawsuit, which is deadly to any project without a good level of funding behind it. I don't buy their apology, this was substantive harm to the McMansions site whether Zillow realizes it or not, and they deserve continued shunning.
posted by JHarris at 11:00 AM on June 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by JHarris at 11:00 AM on June 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
It was never our intent for McMansion Hell to shut down, or for this to appear as an attack on Kate’s freedom of expression. We acted out of an abundance of caution to protect our partners – the agents and brokers who entrust us to display photos of their clients’ homes.
God I hate the "abundance of caution" excuse. "I punched you in the teeth out of an abundance of caution, because you were looking at me funny."
And "it was never our intent ... for this to appear as an attack" is probably a bit more honest than they intended.
posted by chortly at 10:59 PM on June 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
God I hate the "abundance of caution" excuse. "I punched you in the teeth out of an abundance of caution, because you were looking at me funny."
And "it was never our intent ... for this to appear as an attack" is probably a bit more honest than they intended.
posted by chortly at 10:59 PM on June 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
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Also, "fair use".
posted by Fizz at 9:49 AM on June 28, 2017 [25 favorites]