You say "Super Male Vitality", I say "Sex Dust", tomato, tomahto
June 29, 2017 9:13 AM Subscribe
There’s Duck Dynasty America and Modern Family America. There’s “gosh” America and “dope” America
Nope. Turns out we're all part of Idiot America.
posted by lumpenprole at 9:18 AM on June 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
Nope. Turns out we're all part of Idiot America.
posted by lumpenprole at 9:18 AM on June 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
This isn't really a surprise. It's gender marketing taken to the extreme. GOOP and Infowars Life are basically "Baby Wipes" and "Dude Wipes"
posted by SansPoint at 9:20 AM on June 29, 2017 [23 favorites]
posted by SansPoint at 9:20 AM on June 29, 2017 [23 favorites]
Greed will try to make friends with any political identification thanks to capitalism! I'm all for looking into and using natural remedies but pretty much all of those products have paper-thin evidence of their efficacy, if that. Fools and their money I guess.
posted by Green With You at 9:24 AM on June 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Green With You at 9:24 AM on June 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
The War on Facts comes from all directions. I used to work at a small mom and pop natural foods/supplements store in a very rural, red area. Yeah, the town hippies would come and and stuff but they were most certainly outnumbered by Red Blooded American Patriots who couldn't poop. (Seriously, not being able to poop is an epidemic. No one can poop, everyone wants to poop, and thus a multi billion dollar industry was born.)
Anyway, the "why" of it with any random grifter trying to make a buck is that the markup on supplements is massive. They don't cost that much to manufacture, there's nearly no regulatory oversight and you could just as easily cram sawdust into a gelcap for all anyone cares, and you can mark them up 300%. I learned way back when I worked at that store that if you're an unscrupulous person, it's basically a way to print money.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:25 AM on June 29, 2017 [39 favorites]
Anyway, the "why" of it with any random grifter trying to make a buck is that the markup on supplements is massive. They don't cost that much to manufacture, there's nearly no regulatory oversight and you could just as easily cram sawdust into a gelcap for all anyone cares, and you can mark them up 300%. I learned way back when I worked at that store that if you're an unscrupulous person, it's basically a way to print money.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:25 AM on June 29, 2017 [39 favorites]
Is it wrong that both the Americas he describes sound awful to me?
posted by jonmc at 9:25 AM on June 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by jonmc at 9:25 AM on June 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
It comes from the same "THEIR ALL LIEING TO YOUU!!!" impulse that affects both the right and the left. Fear of government leads you to Infowars Life; fear of GMOs leads you to GOOP. Horseshoe Theory Nutrition, indeed.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 9:26 AM on June 29, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 9:26 AM on June 29, 2017 [20 favorites]
Populist rejection of consensus "mainstream" opinion isn't limited by ideology or belief. Rightwing jack-holes, mother-earth new-agers, teenagers, theosophists, cults. Any cultural isolate is vulnerable to it, when in-group "wisdom" becomes a marker of membership: you have to believe this wacky idea despite all of evidence to the contrary to belong.
posted by bonehead at 9:33 AM on June 29, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by bonehead at 9:33 AM on June 29, 2017 [9 favorites]
I don't really get positioning Goop on any kind of political spectrum. Does it have a political viewpoint like Infowars does? Is "white people ennui" a political stance?
posted by uncleozzy at 9:35 AM on June 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by uncleozzy at 9:35 AM on June 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
So "wellness" has transposed from meaning e.g. getting enough sleep, eating well, learning how to mitigate stress etc to crackpot supplements and the like?
posted by thelonius at 9:35 AM on June 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by thelonius at 9:35 AM on June 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
Is "white people ennui" a political stance?
Most of our politics now is cultural signalling, rather than actual policy positions.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:37 AM on June 29, 2017 [39 favorites]
Most of our politics now is cultural signalling, rather than actual policy positions.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:37 AM on June 29, 2017 [39 favorites]
This is glorious. I just laughed out loud at the "Wake Up America Immune Support Blend 100% Organic Coffee." Excuse me, Ima repackage some Sanka and sell it as "Wake Up Sheeple Master Blaster Virile Sex Roast."
posted by octobersurprise at 9:39 AM on June 29, 2017 [65 favorites]
posted by octobersurprise at 9:39 AM on June 29, 2017 [65 favorites]
they were most certainly outnumbered by Red Blooded American Patriots who couldn't poop. (Seriously, not being able to poop is an epidemic. No one can poop, everyone wants to poop, and thus a multi billion dollar industry was born.)
They don't exercise and don't eat fiber. I'm shocked.
posted by leotrotsky at 9:39 AM on June 29, 2017 [13 favorites]
They don't exercise and don't eat fiber. I'm shocked.
posted by leotrotsky at 9:39 AM on June 29, 2017 [13 favorites]
They don't exercise and don't eat fiber. I'm shocked.
To be fair, my wife and I share largely the same diet. I poop four times a day, she poops every four days. Bodies are weird.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 9:42 AM on June 29, 2017 [13 favorites]
To be fair, my wife and I share largely the same diet. I poop four times a day, she poops every four days. Bodies are weird.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 9:42 AM on June 29, 2017 [13 favorites]
So "wellness" has transposed from meaning e.g. getting enough sleep, eating well, learning how to mitigate stress etc to crackpot supplements and the like?
What do you mean "transposed?" Wellness has always been a fount of crackpot ideas.
You like Kellogg's Corn Flakes? "Dr. John Harvey Kellogg opened a sanitarium in Battle Creek, Michigan, where he practiced his unusual methods for maintaining health, including colonic irrigation, electrical stimulus and sexual abstinence, vegetarianism and physical exercise."
How about Graham Crackers? "Graham believed that adhering to the diet would prevent people from having impure thoughts and in turn would stop masturbation (thought by Graham to be a catalyst for blindness and early death among other things."
Not that Kellogg got everything wrong. Clean air, fresh food, and exercise do a lot of good. Kellogg himself lived until 91.
posted by leotrotsky at 9:44 AM on June 29, 2017 [27 favorites]
What do you mean "transposed?" Wellness has always been a fount of crackpot ideas.
You like Kellogg's Corn Flakes? "Dr. John Harvey Kellogg opened a sanitarium in Battle Creek, Michigan, where he practiced his unusual methods for maintaining health, including colonic irrigation, electrical stimulus and sexual abstinence, vegetarianism and physical exercise."
How about Graham Crackers? "Graham believed that adhering to the diet would prevent people from having impure thoughts and in turn would stop masturbation (thought by Graham to be a catalyst for blindness and early death among other things."
Not that Kellogg got everything wrong. Clean air, fresh food, and exercise do a lot of good. Kellogg himself lived until 91.
posted by leotrotsky at 9:44 AM on June 29, 2017 [27 favorites]
If those are the two Americas, I'm not an American. Perhaps those are the two sides of the subset of Americans who are gullible AF?
posted by davejay at 9:46 AM on June 29, 2017
posted by davejay at 9:46 AM on June 29, 2017
Idiots in both these camps are convinced that an extract of C. arabica will help "support their alertness," whatever that means, lol!
posted by ethical_caligula at 9:46 AM on June 29, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by ethical_caligula at 9:46 AM on June 29, 2017 [15 favorites]
davejay: "If those are the two Americas, I'm not an American. Perhaps those are the two sides of the subset of Americans who are gullible AF?"
I am also too smart to be fooled by these things.
posted by boo_radley at 9:48 AM on June 29, 2017 [11 favorites]
I am also too smart to be fooled by these things.
posted by boo_radley at 9:48 AM on June 29, 2017 [11 favorites]
This article is fantastic. This fake medicine woo makes me so, so angry. Particularly from my lefty friends who like to talk about how organic and healthy they are while not vaccinating their children. It's smugly satisfying to know the same hucksters who make Magic Beans for the faerie earth fart contingent also sell them to the manly survivalist nutjobs.
I'm a little surprised Alex Jones would say publicly he uses a product to "maximize vitality". Isn't part of his shtick that he's naturally a giant phallus monster man id?
posted by Nelson at 9:48 AM on June 29, 2017 [24 favorites]
I'm a little surprised Alex Jones would say publicly he uses a product to "maximize vitality". Isn't part of his shtick that he's naturally a giant phallus monster man id?
posted by Nelson at 9:48 AM on June 29, 2017 [24 favorites]
Infowars calls this a “nourishing tonifier” and recommends using it to calm your kids down
Chemtrails and fluoridated water are poisoning your family. Vaccines cause liberalism.
Put this unregulated, untested concoction into your kids instead, which could contain literally anything that does or does not appear on the label.
posted by uncleozzy at 9:48 AM on June 29, 2017 [24 favorites]
Chemtrails and fluoridated water are poisoning your family. Vaccines cause liberalism.
Put this unregulated, untested concoction into your kids instead, which could contain literally anything that does or does not appear on the label.
posted by uncleozzy at 9:48 AM on June 29, 2017 [24 favorites]
I do wonder what would happen if you snorted a line of Brain Dust® and Sex Dust® at the same time.
posted by octobersurprise at 9:53 AM on June 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by octobersurprise at 9:53 AM on June 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'm a little surprised Alex Jones would say publicly he uses a product to "maximize vitality". Isn't part of his shtick that he's naturally a giant phallus monster man id?
Obviously he's naturally at Peak Human Potential Manhood but uses these supplements to push him into manly godhood territory. He can now go toe-to-toe with Hercules himself.
posted by Sangermaine at 9:53 AM on June 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
Obviously he's naturally at Peak Human Potential Manhood but uses these supplements to push him into manly godhood territory. He can now go toe-to-toe with Hercules himself.
posted by Sangermaine at 9:53 AM on June 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
Many people are genuinely being screwed over by The System, and they go looking for reasons and cures.
They don't always get the diagnosis right.
posted by clawsoon at 9:56 AM on June 29, 2017 [7 favorites]
They don't always get the diagnosis right.
posted by clawsoon at 9:56 AM on June 29, 2017 [7 favorites]
At best all this stuff is inert sawdust. At worst, it's literally poison. The lengths people will go to to avoid just taking an aspirin is bizarre.
I also wonder how all the infowars people justify the premise for all this snake oil while consuming a diet of mostly beef and doritos.
posted by Kitty Stardust at 10:00 AM on June 29, 2017 [9 favorites]
I also wonder how all the infowars people justify the premise for all this snake oil while consuming a diet of mostly beef and doritos.
posted by Kitty Stardust at 10:00 AM on June 29, 2017 [9 favorites]
Coming up with a supplement that people want to buy is hard work. It's more efficient to recycle the memes for different audiences, especially since those audiences might have some cultural overlap.
I don't think they do it any more, but GNC used to be divided into sections depending on what packaging you wanted for your supplements-- the supplements themselves may have varied, too. There was science-themed packaging, economy, men, women, new age....
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 10:02 AM on June 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
I don't think they do it any more, but GNC used to be divided into sections depending on what packaging you wanted for your supplements-- the supplements themselves may have varied, too. There was science-themed packaging, economy, men, women, new age....
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 10:02 AM on June 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
They don't always get the diagnosis right.
The idea of "cheat codes"/"secrets of the ancients"/"wisdom from the east" to medicine, to life, to success are enormously attractive to people with otherwise little hope.
posted by bonehead at 10:03 AM on June 29, 2017 [14 favorites]
The idea of "cheat codes"/"secrets of the ancients"/"wisdom from the east" to medicine, to life, to success are enormously attractive to people with otherwise little hope.
posted by bonehead at 10:03 AM on June 29, 2017 [14 favorites]
Little known fact: The legislator most in the pocket of Big Supplement is Orrin Hatch (R-UT), because Mormons looooove them some MLM-style snake oil.
posted by soren_lorensen at 10:05 AM on June 29, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 10:05 AM on June 29, 2017 [9 favorites]
Many people are genuinely being screwed over by The System, and they go looking for reasons and cures.
The people I know who find solace in supplements and woo are not being screwed over by The System nearly as much as they're being screwed over by Their Support Group who is trying like hell to keep them cut off from The System at all costs.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 10:05 AM on June 29, 2017 [8 favorites]
The people I know who find solace in supplements and woo are not being screwed over by The System nearly as much as they're being screwed over by Their Support Group who is trying like hell to keep them cut off from The System at all costs.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 10:05 AM on June 29, 2017 [8 favorites]
It's interesting to me, since it shows alternative medicine tends to appeal to two near-opposite groups, those who cannot afford real medicine, and those who can easily afford real medicine but think they're above it.
When I first started expanding my facebook, I was surprised how many working class people were sharing weird remedies and alternative health articles, but I realized that getting to a doctor isn't cheap or easy, and when you're poor, your idea of a minor problem includes more serious stuff. So if you hear that spring water infused with cyrpus sap or whatever can help your achey joints for just $60 a bottle, that's a good deal compared to missing work to spend an afternoon at your doctor, pay a high copay or out of pocket, and often get referred to a specialist. It's actually pretty sad, and puts a damper on funny Tim Minchin songs about quackery, even if the target is the people peddling the crap. It's a futile coping mechanism, like knowing you can never save your way out of poverty so you spend your extra cash on lottery tickets, hoping for a lucky break.
And on the other end, you have wealthy people convinced they can lead a clean and natural lifestyle thanks to their privileges. They don't want vaccines, because they know them and their children are both clean and good people who would never get near the measles or mumps like those children of careless parents. Not in this neighborhood! Not in that private school! And they see the labels on real medicine, and it's clear it's chemical by nature. Chemical, like those cleaners under the sink, and those are terrible, and will give you cancer! Much better to just use vinegar to clean, and to use medicine that sounds more like spices or food to heal. Or this homeopathic stuff is as pure as water, and water is the safest stuff! The core here is fear and disgust.
posted by ikea_femme at 10:07 AM on June 29, 2017 [36 favorites]
When I first started expanding my facebook, I was surprised how many working class people were sharing weird remedies and alternative health articles, but I realized that getting to a doctor isn't cheap or easy, and when you're poor, your idea of a minor problem includes more serious stuff. So if you hear that spring water infused with cyrpus sap or whatever can help your achey joints for just $60 a bottle, that's a good deal compared to missing work to spend an afternoon at your doctor, pay a high copay or out of pocket, and often get referred to a specialist. It's actually pretty sad, and puts a damper on funny Tim Minchin songs about quackery, even if the target is the people peddling the crap. It's a futile coping mechanism, like knowing you can never save your way out of poverty so you spend your extra cash on lottery tickets, hoping for a lucky break.
And on the other end, you have wealthy people convinced they can lead a clean and natural lifestyle thanks to their privileges. They don't want vaccines, because they know them and their children are both clean and good people who would never get near the measles or mumps like those children of careless parents. Not in this neighborhood! Not in that private school! And they see the labels on real medicine, and it's clear it's chemical by nature. Chemical, like those cleaners under the sink, and those are terrible, and will give you cancer! Much better to just use vinegar to clean, and to use medicine that sounds more like spices or food to heal. Or this homeopathic stuff is as pure as water, and water is the safest stuff! The core here is fear and disgust.
posted by ikea_femme at 10:07 AM on June 29, 2017 [36 favorites]
MetaFilter: The core here is fear and disgust
posted by sandettie light vessel automatic at 10:09 AM on June 29, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by sandettie light vessel automatic at 10:09 AM on June 29, 2017 [13 favorites]
From Infowars: "Top scientists and researchers agree: we are being hit by toxic weapons in the food and water supply that are making us fat, sick, and stupid."
Maybe the government should do something about that. Can you imagine if we had a whole agency just to protect the environment?
posted by maryr at 10:11 AM on June 29, 2017 [56 favorites]
Maybe the government should do something about that. Can you imagine if we had a whole agency just to protect the environment?
posted by maryr at 10:11 AM on June 29, 2017 [56 favorites]
A lot of it is just a bow on the Just World fallacy. If you eliminate all [whatever impure thing] from your life, you will be rewarded with good health and longevity. If you just do all the exact right things, you are guaranteed to never have anything bad happen to you or your family. It's a balm for anxiety in a lot of cases. (Which I get. The anxiety, I mean. But I can't allow myself down the rabbithole of thinking that this One Weird Trick will stop all the things I'm anxious about in their tracks.)
posted by soren_lorensen at 10:12 AM on June 29, 2017 [21 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 10:12 AM on June 29, 2017 [21 favorites]
I think the big thing that scares me from herbal supplements is what a wild west the market is. I do believe that ginger powder is a good treatment for nausea, and I take some before I play first person shooters, but at least with that, I can see and smell that it's real. It's so easy for other products to just be powdered green tea or sugar, and nobody tests them. And the doses aren't nearly as regulated.
Worse, herbal supplements give you the whole plant, when you probably just want the effects of one or two chemicals, which makes me wonder if maybe one crop is more potent than another, or maybe one chemical is helping me, but another is making me sick in a new way.
This is also my anger at the state of medical marijuana research in our country, since it's so poorly funded that we just test the whole plant at once, or a tiny handful of the hundreds of chemicals to figure out what could help people. While I know THC pills are a mediocre treatment for many people but they find marijuana better, that's a sign there's something or some combination in the plant medicine ought to find, dose correctly, and administer in a safer and more convenient way. If we're going to call marijuana medicine (I think it is a great remedy in some cases), we should bring it into an age where we take identical aspirin pills instead of infusing willow bark in water.
posted by ikea_femme at 10:15 AM on June 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
Worse, herbal supplements give you the whole plant, when you probably just want the effects of one or two chemicals, which makes me wonder if maybe one crop is more potent than another, or maybe one chemical is helping me, but another is making me sick in a new way.
This is also my anger at the state of medical marijuana research in our country, since it's so poorly funded that we just test the whole plant at once, or a tiny handful of the hundreds of chemicals to figure out what could help people. While I know THC pills are a mediocre treatment for many people but they find marijuana better, that's a sign there's something or some combination in the plant medicine ought to find, dose correctly, and administer in a safer and more convenient way. If we're going to call marijuana medicine (I think it is a great remedy in some cases), we should bring it into an age where we take identical aspirin pills instead of infusing willow bark in water.
posted by ikea_femme at 10:15 AM on June 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
I'll bet people in both of these camps spend a lot of money on clothes they don't really need. Fashion (and I'm including "survivalist" clothing in fashion here) marketed to their sense of identity in their respective camps, produced at the expense of environmental pollution and child labor, and sold at tremendous markup.
Is it a rediculous waste? Probably. But that doesn't mean that a good coat isn't damn helpful in keeping you alive in the winter.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3573577/
posted by ethical_caligula at 10:16 AM on June 29, 2017
Is it a rediculous waste? Probably. But that doesn't mean that a good coat isn't damn helpful in keeping you alive in the winter.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3573577/
posted by ethical_caligula at 10:16 AM on June 29, 2017
"Top scientists and researchers agree: we are being hit by toxic weapons in the food and water supply that are making us fat, sick, and stupid."
Maybe the government should do something about that. Can you imagine if we had a whole agency just to protect the environment?
This totally baffles me about the right-libertarian point-of-view. Who do they think are the ones dumping the chemicals?
posted by Kitty Stardust at 10:16 AM on June 29, 2017 [16 favorites]
Maybe the government should do something about that. Can you imagine if we had a whole agency just to protect the environment?
This totally baffles me about the right-libertarian point-of-view. Who do they think are the ones dumping the chemicals?
posted by Kitty Stardust at 10:16 AM on June 29, 2017 [16 favorites]
Metafilter: effective for a host of debilitated conditions
posted by maryr at 10:27 AM on June 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by maryr at 10:27 AM on June 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
Who do they think are the ones dumping the chemicals?
Probably the gub'mint.
posted by maryr at 10:28 AM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
Probably the gub'mint.
posted by maryr at 10:28 AM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
I think the big thing that scares me from herbal supplements
I worked for someone who literally died taking an unregulated (and subsequently banned) herbal energy supplement. I don't know how much more stark the warning has to be to people.
posted by lumpenprole at 10:31 AM on June 29, 2017 [8 favorites]
I worked for someone who literally died taking an unregulated (and subsequently banned) herbal energy supplement. I don't know how much more stark the warning has to be to people.
posted by lumpenprole at 10:31 AM on June 29, 2017 [8 favorites]
The idea of "cheat codes"/"secrets of the ancients"/"wisdom from the east" to medicine, to life, to success are enormously attractive to people with otherwise little hope.
I wonder if there's a difference in consumption or acceptance of these "alternative" solutions in countries that have more robust public health care systems?
I worked for someone who literally died taking an unregulated (and subsequently banned) herbal energy supplement.
A very large number of people worked for a guy named Steve Jobs who literally died of a rare form of fairly treatable pancreatic cancer because he resisted doctor recommendations for medical intervention for nine months in favor of a "natural healing" diet.
posted by Sangermaine at 10:32 AM on June 29, 2017 [12 favorites]
I wonder if there's a difference in consumption or acceptance of these "alternative" solutions in countries that have more robust public health care systems?
I worked for someone who literally died taking an unregulated (and subsequently banned) herbal energy supplement.
A very large number of people worked for a guy named Steve Jobs who literally died of a rare form of fairly treatable pancreatic cancer because he resisted doctor recommendations for medical intervention for nine months in favor of a "natural healing" diet.
posted by Sangermaine at 10:32 AM on June 29, 2017 [12 favorites]
Kitty Stardust: This totally baffles me about the right-libertarian point-of-view. Who do they think are the ones dumping the chemicals?
Companies who have captured government regulators. Therefore, if you get rid of government regulators, the problem will go away. (That argument has been made to me, if in slightly less crude form, by a libertarian economics professor.)
posted by clawsoon at 10:32 AM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
Companies who have captured government regulators. Therefore, if you get rid of government regulators, the problem will go away. (That argument has been made to me, if in slightly less crude form, by a libertarian economics professor.)
posted by clawsoon at 10:32 AM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
Oh man, colloidal silver. Is Gwyneth Paltrow going to turn herself blue like that libertarian in Montana?
posted by Copronymus at 10:35 AM on June 29, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by Copronymus at 10:35 AM on June 29, 2017 [11 favorites]
they were most certainly outnumbered by Red Blooded American Patriots who couldn't poop.
Who eat nothing but ground beef, cheese, salami and potatoes.
To be fair, my wife and I share largely the same diet. I poop four times a day, she poops every four days. Bodies are weird.
Do you eat 16 times what she eats? That could explain it.
But while not perfect, eating a vegetable once in a while could do most of these people wonders.
posted by GuyZero at 10:36 AM on June 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
Who eat nothing but ground beef, cheese, salami and potatoes.
To be fair, my wife and I share largely the same diet. I poop four times a day, she poops every four days. Bodies are weird.
Do you eat 16 times what she eats? That could explain it.
But while not perfect, eating a vegetable once in a while could do most of these people wonders.
posted by GuyZero at 10:36 AM on June 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
This makes me so tired.
posted by RolandOfEld at 10:39 AM on June 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by RolandOfEld at 10:39 AM on June 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
Do you eat 16 times what she eats?
No.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 10:39 AM on June 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
No.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 10:39 AM on June 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
This makes me so tired.
maybe you have low t
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 10:40 AM on June 29, 2017 [23 favorites]
maybe you have low t
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 10:40 AM on June 29, 2017 [23 favorites]
I do wonder what would happen if you snorted a line of Brain Dust® and Sex Dust® at the same time.
I think that's where sapiosexuals come from.
posted by maryr at 10:41 AM on June 29, 2017 [14 favorites]
I think that's where sapiosexuals come from.
posted by maryr at 10:41 AM on June 29, 2017 [14 favorites]
We can laugh/shake our heads at Goopsters all we want, but I can guaran-damn-tee you that if women were treated better at doctor's offices and hospitals across the nation, Goop (I can't speak for Infowars) would have a far smaller customer base.
Medical misogyny is a thing. Previously. Prevouslier. There are lots more threads and articles but you get the idea.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 10:41 AM on June 29, 2017 [39 favorites]
Medical misogyny is a thing. Previously. Prevouslier. There are lots more threads and articles but you get the idea.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 10:41 AM on June 29, 2017 [39 favorites]
they were most certainly outnumbered by Red Blooded American Patriots who couldn't poop.
Um, with all due respect to Mrs. (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates, opiod-induced constipation is one side-effect of the national opiod crisis. A lot of those Red Blooded American Patriots who can't poop may be self-medicating in other ways as well.
posted by maryr at 10:45 AM on June 29, 2017 [9 favorites]
Um, with all due respect to Mrs. (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates, opiod-induced constipation is one side-effect of the national opiod crisis. A lot of those Red Blooded American Patriots who can't poop may be self-medicating in other ways as well.
posted by maryr at 10:45 AM on June 29, 2017 [9 favorites]
Probably the gub'mint.
Let's not do this, please.
Putting on a rural or southern accent in order to mock someone is a type of linguistic stereotyping that is rooted deeply in classism. We can find better ways to mock people!
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 10:46 AM on June 29, 2017 [18 favorites]
Let's not do this, please.
Putting on a rural or southern accent in order to mock someone is a type of linguistic stereotyping that is rooted deeply in classism. We can find better ways to mock people!
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 10:46 AM on June 29, 2017 [18 favorites]
Apologies, I wasn't intending any geographically targeted offense.
posted by maryr at 10:48 AM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by maryr at 10:48 AM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
I'm glad to say that I've never heard of most of the items on this list, and what I do know of the other two ain't good --- selenium (when taken by the mother) can cause birth defects, for starters; and colloidal silver is nothing more than a poison that'll turn you blue.
posted by easily confused at 10:50 AM on June 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by easily confused at 10:50 AM on June 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
Putting on a rural or southern accent in order to mock someone is a type of linguistic stereotyping that is rooted deeply in classism.
Thus the current uproar in rural communities over the standup act of Larry the Cable Guy, a suburban kid who adopted the stereotypical persona of the southern rube to make fun of the "Git 'r Done" attitude of the white working class.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 10:53 AM on June 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
Thus the current uproar in rural communities over the standup act of Larry the Cable Guy, a suburban kid who adopted the stereotypical persona of the southern rube to make fun of the "Git 'r Done" attitude of the white working class.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 10:53 AM on June 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
Thus the current uproar in rural communities over the standup act of Larry the Cable Guy, a suburban kid who adopted the stereotypical persona of the southern rube to make fun of the "Git 'r Done" attitude of the white working class.
So therefore it's open season on all those hayseeds? That's not a good argument or in service of a good goal.
posted by The Gaffer at 10:59 AM on June 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
So therefore it's open season on all those hayseeds? That's not a good argument or in service of a good goal.
posted by The Gaffer at 10:59 AM on June 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
So therefore it's open season on all those hayseeds?
"Hayseeds" strikes me as more offensive than writing government as "gub'mint" lol. On the outrage scale (mine is a 7 point scale), I'd give gub'mint a 4.6 and hayseeds a 5.3. I am jotting down my disgust in a shame journal (shame at other people, not me). Also just curious, are we not allowed to write "Murica" anymore, either? Cause all my conservative relatives on Facebook love writing it that way, they find it funny.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 11:05 AM on June 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
"Hayseeds" strikes me as more offensive than writing government as "gub'mint" lol. On the outrage scale (mine is a 7 point scale), I'd give gub'mint a 4.6 and hayseeds a 5.3. I am jotting down my disgust in a shame journal (shame at other people, not me). Also just curious, are we not allowed to write "Murica" anymore, either? Cause all my conservative relatives on Facebook love writing it that way, they find it funny.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 11:05 AM on June 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
MetaFilter: Wake Up Sheeple Master Blaster Virile Sex Roast.
The idea of "cheat codes"/"secrets of the ancients"/"wisdom from the east" to medicine, to life, to success are enormously attractive to people with otherwise little hope.
On the contrary, everyone I know who's into GOOP-level woo is wealthy and comfortable to the degree that feeling groggy in the morning (well, duh) feels like a crisis.
posted by klanawa at 11:06 AM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
The idea of "cheat codes"/"secrets of the ancients"/"wisdom from the east" to medicine, to life, to success are enormously attractive to people with otherwise little hope.
On the contrary, everyone I know who's into GOOP-level woo is wealthy and comfortable to the degree that feeling groggy in the morning (well, duh) feels like a crisis.
posted by klanawa at 11:06 AM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
soren_lorensen: "Little known fact: The legislator most in the pocket of Big Supplement is Orrin Hatch (R-UT), because Mormons looooove them some MLM-style snake oil."
That explains why the friend of mine who's deeply involved in a MLM "essential oil" thing is always flying to Utah.
posted by octothorpe at 11:07 AM on June 29, 2017
That explains why the friend of mine who's deeply involved in a MLM "essential oil" thing is always flying to Utah.
posted by octothorpe at 11:07 AM on June 29, 2017
Yeah, the town hippies would come and and stuff but they were most certainly outnumbered by Red Blooded American Patriots who couldn't poop. (Seriously, not being able to poop is an epidemic. No one can poop, everyone wants to poop, and thus a multi billion dollar industry was born.)
There were TV commercials for medications to deal with opiod induced constipation during NFL game coverage last season.
posted by srboisvert at 11:20 AM on June 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
There were TV commercials for medications to deal with opiod induced constipation during NFL game coverage last season.
posted by srboisvert at 11:20 AM on June 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
"Hayseeds" strikes me as more offensive than writing government as "gub'mint" lol. On the outrage scale (mine is a 7 point scale), I'd give gub'mint a 4.6 and hayseeds a 5.3. I am jotting down my disgust in a shame journal (shame at other people, not me). Also just curious, are we not allowed to write "Murica" anymore, either? Cause all my conservative relatives on Facebook love writing it that way, they find it funny.
Hey, "am I not allowed to say {word}" has come back to metafilter! I missed you buddy, where's your friend the PC Police?
I'm not the boss of you, I don't know how ingroup/outgroup your use is, but this is an area where metafilter has real trouble not being shitty.
posted by The Gaffer at 11:31 AM on June 29, 2017 [10 favorites]
Hey, "am I not allowed to say {word}" has come back to metafilter! I missed you buddy, where's your friend the PC Police?
I'm not the boss of you, I don't know how ingroup/outgroup your use is, but this is an area where metafilter has real trouble not being shitty.
posted by The Gaffer at 11:31 AM on June 29, 2017 [10 favorites]
We can laugh/shake our heads at Goopsters all we want, but I can guaran-damn-tee you that if women were treated better at doctor's offices and hospitals across the nation, Goop (I can't speak for Infowars) would have a far smaller customer base.
So that is definitely a problem but I'm not sure it's the root cause here.
People don't like feeling tired and there's simply no easy cure for being tired. Get more sleep. Unless you're stressed or working two jobs and don't have that much time. Eat better. Unless you're poor or in a food desert or any number of other reasons. Exercise more. Unless you're already overweight and overworked.
Look at what these supplements claim to do:
"Magic Potions for Clarity, Beauty, and Energy"
"Why am I so effing tired"
“inhibit cancer progression” and “activate some types of immune cells”
"They say that active silver keeps germs at bay"
"activate fortitude, sensuality, and endurance"
"Moon Juice says it can help “fuel your physical and entrepreneurial feats.”
"ignite and excite sexy energy in and out of the bedroom."
"help [sic] combat the effects of stress to expand peaceful awareness and align you with bliss."
Maybe I'm getting sub-standard health care from my doctors [narrator: he was not] but these things aren't the kind of things that doctors can really help with for the most part. Some people might have an underlying condition like a bad thyroid but mostly this stuff is purely aspirational. And while there are pills that give a boost of energy and keep you feeling great all day I think US doctors have mostly stopped acting like Nazi pharmacists and don't generally proscribe pills made of cocaine, meth and oxycodone. And per the opioid comments above, Americans are already self-medicating with opioids way too much.
Essentially these pills are claiming to be cures for the side-effects of being poor and they don't help with either the symptoms or the underlying cause.
They do, however, keep Alex Jones pretty hopped up, so they're working for at least one person.
posted by GuyZero at 11:36 AM on June 29, 2017 [9 favorites]
So that is definitely a problem but I'm not sure it's the root cause here.
People don't like feeling tired and there's simply no easy cure for being tired. Get more sleep. Unless you're stressed or working two jobs and don't have that much time. Eat better. Unless you're poor or in a food desert or any number of other reasons. Exercise more. Unless you're already overweight and overworked.
Look at what these supplements claim to do:
"Magic Potions for Clarity, Beauty, and Energy"
"Why am I so effing tired"
“inhibit cancer progression” and “activate some types of immune cells”
"They say that active silver keeps germs at bay"
"activate fortitude, sensuality, and endurance"
"Moon Juice says it can help “fuel your physical and entrepreneurial feats.”
"ignite and excite sexy energy in and out of the bedroom."
"help [sic] combat the effects of stress to expand peaceful awareness and align you with bliss."
Maybe I'm getting sub-standard health care from my doctors [narrator: he was not] but these things aren't the kind of things that doctors can really help with for the most part. Some people might have an underlying condition like a bad thyroid but mostly this stuff is purely aspirational. And while there are pills that give a boost of energy and keep you feeling great all day I think US doctors have mostly stopped acting like Nazi pharmacists and don't generally proscribe pills made of cocaine, meth and oxycodone. And per the opioid comments above, Americans are already self-medicating with opioids way too much.
Essentially these pills are claiming to be cures for the side-effects of being poor and they don't help with either the symptoms or the underlying cause.
They do, however, keep Alex Jones pretty hopped up, so they're working for at least one person.
posted by GuyZero at 11:36 AM on June 29, 2017 [9 favorites]
I really wonder who's listening to Infowars and buying the crap on that side. More specifically, where do they live, where are they class and income-wise, etc. I would suspect they're more suburban and affluent than the stereotype, but that suspicion's not exactly empirically determined. I mean, gold and magic potions aren't cheap.
posted by The Gaffer at 11:41 AM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by The Gaffer at 11:41 AM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
Yeah, I shouldn't imply that all these buyers are poor because yeah, poor people don't tend to have a lot of money to buy this junk unlike angry middle class suburbanites.
I would reframe my comment that the American neo-puritanical work ethic has no place for being tired or sick which makes these sorts of pitches popular.
posted by GuyZero at 11:47 AM on June 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
I would reframe my comment that the American neo-puritanical work ethic has no place for being tired or sick which makes these sorts of pitches popular.
posted by GuyZero at 11:47 AM on June 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
My experience actually selling a lot of these things (15 years ago, btw, so opioids weren't not a thing, but they weren't a thing like they're a thing right now) to people that I developed enough of a small town relationship with that we would sell people stuff on interest-free store credit (handwritten in a spiral notebook) isn't really that they were lacking access to an actual doctor or were being abused by The System in any more of a way than anyone else is.
What I saw more than anything was untreated anxiety, anti-intellectualism, standard issue gullibility, and a lot of what GuyZero notes: people looking for cures for things that aren't really a malady. I had a woman come in once and literally say, "Can you show me the pills you can take to make yourself skinny?" My answer: "If we sold those here, I'd be both thin and rich, and as you can see, I am neither." She laughed. I'm hoping she kind of cottoned on to the absurdity of that request.
As far as the economics of doctor vs. supplement: Most people do not buy just one supplement. It's kind of an in for a penny, in for a pound situation with most customers. The amount spent on supplements often far exceeds what one would pay, even uninsured, to see a GP and pick up a prescription for a generic. We always knew it would be a record sales day when someone came in to us who had been referred by the local Naturopath. (We called him Dr. Booty-Rooter, I have spoken of him on the Blue before.) He was a big believer in 1) high colonics and 2) so many supplements that his clients were given a BINDER full of what they needed to buy. Which they would then bring into the store and easily drop $500 at a time.
posted by soren_lorensen at 11:48 AM on June 29, 2017 [16 favorites]
What I saw more than anything was untreated anxiety, anti-intellectualism, standard issue gullibility, and a lot of what GuyZero notes: people looking for cures for things that aren't really a malady. I had a woman come in once and literally say, "Can you show me the pills you can take to make yourself skinny?" My answer: "If we sold those here, I'd be both thin and rich, and as you can see, I am neither." She laughed. I'm hoping she kind of cottoned on to the absurdity of that request.
As far as the economics of doctor vs. supplement: Most people do not buy just one supplement. It's kind of an in for a penny, in for a pound situation with most customers. The amount spent on supplements often far exceeds what one would pay, even uninsured, to see a GP and pick up a prescription for a generic. We always knew it would be a record sales day when someone came in to us who had been referred by the local Naturopath. (We called him Dr. Booty-Rooter, I have spoken of him on the Blue before.) He was a big believer in 1) high colonics and 2) so many supplements that his clients were given a BINDER full of what they needed to buy. Which they would then bring into the store and easily drop $500 at a time.
posted by soren_lorensen at 11:48 AM on June 29, 2017 [16 favorites]
I really wonder who's listening to Infowars and buying the crap on that side
The Infowars stickers I have seen around here have all been on the back windows of recent-model full-size pickups, some of which had commercial plates (i.e., were work vehicles for tradespeople).
posted by uncleozzy at 11:49 AM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
The Infowars stickers I have seen around here have all been on the back windows of recent-model full-size pickups, some of which had commercial plates (i.e., were work vehicles for tradespeople).
posted by uncleozzy at 11:49 AM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
I would guess the market for infowars supplements is the same as for protein powder, "bulletproof coffee," and other "life hacks." Probably frat bros, tech bros, & upper-middle-class preppy racists like Spencer & Cernovich.
posted by Kitty Stardust at 11:50 AM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Kitty Stardust at 11:50 AM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
Basically, the patriarchy is keeping the supplements business thriving on both ends of our horseshoe.
posted by maryr at 11:53 AM on June 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by maryr at 11:53 AM on June 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
Also: Spencer & Cernovich is the worst legal dramedy I have ever seen and I have no idea how it keeps getting renewed.
posted by maryr at 11:54 AM on June 29, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by maryr at 11:54 AM on June 29, 2017 [8 favorites]
Spraying nanoparticle-sized silver into the air before she sits? WTF, Paltrow? Silver nanoparticles are often used as a positive control in studies of inflammation or neurotoxicity. For example here's one (on which I am a co-author)
You go right ahead and keep dosing yourself with the toxic particles, if you want, but me, I am staying way the hell back
posted by caution live frogs at 12:16 PM on June 29, 2017
You go right ahead and keep dosing yourself with the toxic particles, if you want, but me, I am staying way the hell back
posted by caution live frogs at 12:16 PM on June 29, 2017
Many people are genuinely being screwed over by The System, and they go looking for reasons and cures.
The overlap between the supplement woo crowd and the anti-vaxxers is pretty large and one thing those people are not is 'screwed over by the system'. The majority are more educated than average and tend to be middle class or higher. They know just enough to think they can figure things out as well experts and they also have the money to buy the snake oil.
Poor people are not the targets for faux pharma.
posted by srboisvert at 12:22 PM on June 29, 2017 [9 favorites]
The overlap between the supplement woo crowd and the anti-vaxxers is pretty large and one thing those people are not is 'screwed over by the system'. The majority are more educated than average and tend to be middle class or higher. They know just enough to think they can figure things out as well experts and they also have the money to buy the snake oil.
Poor people are not the targets for faux pharma.
posted by srboisvert at 12:22 PM on June 29, 2017 [9 favorites]
Sure they can be, srboisvert. Just look around the counter of any gas station in a low-income part of an urban area. Sketchy supplements galore, mostly focused around male sexual performance. Faux pharma targets everyone.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 12:59 PM on June 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 12:59 PM on June 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
Probably frat bros, tech bros, & upper-middle-class preppy racists like Spencer & Cernovich
Cernovich sold his own line of snake oil for a while. When he first made his name in the gamergate shit, he tried to get the idiots at /r/KotakuInAction to buy some. Not sure if they were stupid enough to fall for it, but it didn't hurt his prospects.
posted by honestcoyote at 1:05 PM on June 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
Cernovich sold his own line of snake oil for a while. When he first made his name in the gamergate shit, he tried to get the idiots at /r/KotakuInAction to buy some. Not sure if they were stupid enough to fall for it, but it didn't hurt his prospects.
posted by honestcoyote at 1:05 PM on June 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
I wonder if there's a difference in consumption or acceptance of these "alternative" solutions in countries that have more robust public health care systems?
In here, afternoon TV is funded with premium rate phone-in contests and ads aimed at senior citizens, mostly stuff like mobility scooters, chair lifts, and, yes, woo supplements with the occasional Doctor Oz-style doctor during the shows themselves.
I mean, there's things public health care really can't do much to help. It's not like if doctors were given an unlimited supply of cash could make anyone in their 70s feel like they're 30 again, and that's what a lot of those supplements promise.
posted by lmfsilva at 1:06 PM on June 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
In here, afternoon TV is funded with premium rate phone-in contests and ads aimed at senior citizens, mostly stuff like mobility scooters, chair lifts, and, yes, woo supplements with the occasional Doctor Oz-style doctor during the shows themselves.
I mean, there's things public health care really can't do much to help. It's not like if doctors were given an unlimited supply of cash could make anyone in their 70s feel like they're 30 again, and that's what a lot of those supplements promise.
posted by lmfsilva at 1:06 PM on June 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
I wonder if there's a difference in consumption or acceptance of these "alternative" solutions in countries that have more robust public health care systems?
I would imagine--or at least hope--that many other countries that have more robust public health care systems also regulate this crap more than the US.
posted by tippiedog at 1:15 PM on June 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
I would imagine--or at least hope--that many other countries that have more robust public health care systems also regulate this crap more than the US.
posted by tippiedog at 1:15 PM on June 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
I hate the term woo. It's inarticulate to the point that I can never tell what someone is lumping in to that category or why, but it always strikes me as a kind of out of hand dismissal of a whole constellation of things that the woo-caller never fully specifies.
The two people I know right now who get sucked into this sort of thing are both women with serious, complicated health problems who can't afford to get them fully diagnosed or treated by the shitty doctors they have access to. The only people who they can get to listen to them are these alternative medicine types who seem all too happy to bleed them dry on a payment plan. And yeah, they get sucked in to that whole thing, and end up paying for more and more iffy treatments. The fact that everyone else is so dismissive about their problems and that people are constantly talking shit about them only makes them retreat further and further into that realm.
I've known a bunch of tech bros and trust fund hippies who bought into alternative medicine because they were arrogant suckers, so I know that demographic exists, but I've been able to largely avoid it just by staying out of Boulder, and I really really don't like the people I know being lumped in with them. (And they're sure as hell not in the Info Wars demographic.)
posted by ernielundquist at 1:20 PM on June 29, 2017 [10 favorites]
The two people I know right now who get sucked into this sort of thing are both women with serious, complicated health problems who can't afford to get them fully diagnosed or treated by the shitty doctors they have access to. The only people who they can get to listen to them are these alternative medicine types who seem all too happy to bleed them dry on a payment plan. And yeah, they get sucked in to that whole thing, and end up paying for more and more iffy treatments. The fact that everyone else is so dismissive about their problems and that people are constantly talking shit about them only makes them retreat further and further into that realm.
I've known a bunch of tech bros and trust fund hippies who bought into alternative medicine because they were arrogant suckers, so I know that demographic exists, but I've been able to largely avoid it just by staying out of Boulder, and I really really don't like the people I know being lumped in with them. (And they're sure as hell not in the Info Wars demographic.)
posted by ernielundquist at 1:20 PM on June 29, 2017 [10 favorites]
Oh man, colloidal silver. Is Gwyneth Paltrow going to turn herself blue like that libertarian in Montana?
At which point Goop will be renamed:
A. Boop
B. Bloop
C. Glue
posted by leotrotsky at 1:29 PM on June 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
At which point Goop will be renamed:
A. Boop
B. Bloop
C. Glue
posted by leotrotsky at 1:29 PM on June 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
(Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates: "are we not allowed to write "Murica" anymore, either? Cause all my conservative relatives on Facebook love writing it that way, they find it funny."
I found the evolution of that super interesting. It started out as explicitly anti-american, an caricature of the most stereotypical rural, truck and gun loving dumb person being very patriotic, often about a terrible thing.
It was so quickly appropriated to point in the opposite direction. A celebration (maybe couched in some irony, maybe not) of food related excess, stupid macho behaviour, some spectacular way of burning some money or ineptly blowing up a bunch of brown civilians while "hunting terrorists".
Reminded me of the "America fuck yeah" song from the Team America World Police movie, but then they are professionals at toeing this line on purpose: having half the audience enjoying it ironically and the other half enjoying it literally.
posted by Infracanophile at 1:30 PM on June 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
I found the evolution of that super interesting. It started out as explicitly anti-american, an caricature of the most stereotypical rural, truck and gun loving dumb person being very patriotic, often about a terrible thing.
It was so quickly appropriated to point in the opposite direction. A celebration (maybe couched in some irony, maybe not) of food related excess, stupid macho behaviour, some spectacular way of burning some money or ineptly blowing up a bunch of brown civilians while "hunting terrorists".
Reminded me of the "America fuck yeah" song from the Team America World Police movie, but then they are professionals at toeing this line on purpose: having half the audience enjoying it ironically and the other half enjoying it literally.
posted by Infracanophile at 1:30 PM on June 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
I found the evolution of that super interesting. It started out as explicitly anti-american, an caricature of the most stereotypical rural, truck and gun loving dumb person being very patriotic, often about a terrible thing.
It was so quickly appropriated to point in the opposite direction. A celebration (maybe couched in some irony, maybe not) of food related excess, stupid macho behaviour, some spectacular way of burning some money or ineptly blowing up a bunch of brown civilians while "hunting terrorists".
Poe's Law. See also, The Donald subreddit.
posted by leotrotsky at 1:33 PM on June 29, 2017
It was so quickly appropriated to point in the opposite direction. A celebration (maybe couched in some irony, maybe not) of food related excess, stupid macho behaviour, some spectacular way of burning some money or ineptly blowing up a bunch of brown civilians while "hunting terrorists".
Poe's Law. See also, The Donald subreddit.
posted by leotrotsky at 1:33 PM on June 29, 2017
Many people are genuinely being screwed over by The System, and they go looking for reasons and cures.
I'm sure this is true. IME, it's as true, or, maybe, more so, that the marks in question believe themselves to be screwed over by "The System." I think the various appeals made to being an "outsider," to "secret knowledge," to that "one weird trick," account for much of the success of these kinds of scams. That's a fundamental principle of grift: profit off the mark's desire to get something for nothing. Compare it to the kind of nuttiness behind the sovereign citizens: the belief that simply saying the right words will exempt the speaker from all of the tedious responsibilities modern life demands.
posted by octobersurprise at 1:48 PM on June 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
I'm sure this is true. IME, it's as true, or, maybe, more so, that the marks in question believe themselves to be screwed over by "The System." I think the various appeals made to being an "outsider," to "secret knowledge," to that "one weird trick," account for much of the success of these kinds of scams. That's a fundamental principle of grift: profit off the mark's desire to get something for nothing. Compare it to the kind of nuttiness behind the sovereign citizens: the belief that simply saying the right words will exempt the speaker from all of the tedious responsibilities modern life demands.
posted by octobersurprise at 1:48 PM on June 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
A real problem is that the 21st century has produced conditions whereby more and more people (for a variety of reasons) feel (or want to feel) like outsiders and at the same time ever more sophisticated ways to profit off the marks. That may be the defining characteristic of the century.
posted by octobersurprise at 1:58 PM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by octobersurprise at 1:58 PM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
I would imagine--or at least hope--that many other countries that have more robust public health care systems also regulate this crap more than the US.
Not really. These supplements are nothing for the most part - mushroom dust and fillers. Not much to regulate. And they word their claims pretty carefully to avoid claiming they do anything in particular. If you actually read labels they sometimes say nothing at all. You have to know that Ashwagandha does whatever it does.
And it's not hard to see how we go from legitimate vitamins (wtf is riboflavin?) to the marginal supplements (CoQ10) to random plants ground into powder, left sit in a warehouse at 110F for a year and then packed into gelatin capsules. People can barely understand vitamin deficiency much less judge random supplements backed up by thousands of years of folk medicine.
And finally many countries more-or-less do what the US FDA does. And the FDA doesn't do much with dietary supplements other than making sure manufacturers don't blatantly lie and it sometimes charges them if they say it's natural but it turns out to cause liver damage.
posted by GuyZero at 1:58 PM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
Not really. These supplements are nothing for the most part - mushroom dust and fillers. Not much to regulate. And they word their claims pretty carefully to avoid claiming they do anything in particular. If you actually read labels they sometimes say nothing at all. You have to know that Ashwagandha does whatever it does.
And it's not hard to see how we go from legitimate vitamins (wtf is riboflavin?) to the marginal supplements (CoQ10) to random plants ground into powder, left sit in a warehouse at 110F for a year and then packed into gelatin capsules. People can barely understand vitamin deficiency much less judge random supplements backed up by thousands of years of folk medicine.
And finally many countries more-or-less do what the US FDA does. And the FDA doesn't do much with dietary supplements other than making sure manufacturers don't blatantly lie and it sometimes charges them if they say it's natural but it turns out to cause liver damage.
posted by GuyZero at 1:58 PM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
EAT FOOD
NOT TOO MUCH
MOSTLY MOON JUICE
posted by turbid dahlia at 3:38 PM on June 29, 2017 [10 favorites]
NOT TOO MUCH
MOSTLY MOON JUICE
posted by turbid dahlia at 3:38 PM on June 29, 2017 [10 favorites]
uncleozzy: The Infowars stickers I have seen around here have all been on the back windows of recent-model full-size pickups, some of which had commercial plates (i.e., were work vehicles for tradespeople).
If that was a late model Ford pickup with a "9/11 Terrorist Hunting Permit" on the back window, I pass it all the time in the LIRR parking lot.
Next time, I'll have to check the glovebox for Sex Dust.
posted by dr_dank at 3:54 PM on June 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
If that was a late model Ford pickup with a "9/11 Terrorist Hunting Permit" on the back window, I pass it all the time in the LIRR parking lot.
Next time, I'll have to check the glovebox for Sex Dust.
posted by dr_dank at 3:54 PM on June 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
I was just remarking to grumpybearbride that there has been a notable uptick in gendered meanness within the last year. For many moons I have sported a man bag and worn "exciting" shirts and the only ribbing I got was in a corporate setting (for the shirts) and among my friends (who have always delighted in ribbing me.) But in the last few months I have gotten derisive comments from no fewer than four people, including:
- A casino bro in Atlantic City who was all "NICE SHIRT BRA" and evil soulless eyes.
- A dad w/ family in Calistoga who announced, apropos of nothing, that my "purse [was] bigger than" grumpybearbride's.
- An older fellow at a grainery tour, also in Calistoga, who insisted that I was doing "the same job the little girl did" when I helped the tour guide raise the multi-ton runner stone using a crank. The "little girl" was a character in an anecdote who used a paddle to control grain flow.
- Some rando at a casino in south Lake Tahoe who told me that I was "really rocking" the man bag - it is up for debate whether that was actually derisive, but I'm inclined to believe that it was a backhanded compliment.
Any of those incidents in isolation, excepting perhaps the dad, wouldn't raise any alarms. But taken together they, along with all of the other conspicuous displays of patriarchy and gender conformity showing up these days in politics and the media, are opening my eyes to just how strong the regressive current has gotten.
Add to that Goop and Infowars Life, which are just More Of The Same. Dark times are ahead.
posted by grumpybear69 at 4:00 PM on June 29, 2017 [10 favorites]
- A casino bro in Atlantic City who was all "NICE SHIRT BRA" and evil soulless eyes.
- A dad w/ family in Calistoga who announced, apropos of nothing, that my "purse [was] bigger than" grumpybearbride's.
- An older fellow at a grainery tour, also in Calistoga, who insisted that I was doing "the same job the little girl did" when I helped the tour guide raise the multi-ton runner stone using a crank. The "little girl" was a character in an anecdote who used a paddle to control grain flow.
- Some rando at a casino in south Lake Tahoe who told me that I was "really rocking" the man bag - it is up for debate whether that was actually derisive, but I'm inclined to believe that it was a backhanded compliment.
Any of those incidents in isolation, excepting perhaps the dad, wouldn't raise any alarms. But taken together they, along with all of the other conspicuous displays of patriarchy and gender conformity showing up these days in politics and the media, are opening my eyes to just how strong the regressive current has gotten.
Add to that Goop and Infowars Life, which are just More Of The Same. Dark times are ahead.
posted by grumpybear69 at 4:00 PM on June 29, 2017 [10 favorites]
I keep hearing Alex Jones' voice bellowing "STICK THE STONES! IN YOUR YONI!" and giggling.
posted by Ghostride The Whip at 4:20 PM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Ghostride The Whip at 4:20 PM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
If that was a late model Ford pickup with a "9/11 Terrorist Hunting Permit" on the back window, I pass it all the time in the LIRR parking lot.
I mean, to be fair, that describes at least 6 out of 10 pickups on Long Island.
posted by uncleozzy at 4:28 PM on June 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
I mean, to be fair, that describes at least 6 out of 10 pickups on Long Island.
posted by uncleozzy at 4:28 PM on June 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
There is MASSIVE overlap between the far left fringe and the far right fringe when it comes to "alternative medicine" (read: alternative facts). Both lean anti-science and pro-pseudoscience. It has ever been thus. Shouldn't be too much cause for concern, unless for some strange reason real healthcare should become out of reach all of a sudden.
Say, you don't suppose the Snakeoil Salesman In Chief owns stock in snakeoil, do you? 'Cause that'd sure explain the cuts to healthcare and science and education and everything.
posted by Sys Rq at 7:38 PM on June 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
Say, you don't suppose the Snakeoil Salesman In Chief owns stock in snakeoil, do you? 'Cause that'd sure explain the cuts to healthcare and science and education and everything.
posted by Sys Rq at 7:38 PM on June 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
My father, who has enjoyed primo government contractor health insurance literally his entire life, who has consumed tens (hundreds?) of thousands of dollars in sophisticated medical testing for meaningless symptoms, whose son is an evidence-based medicine trained physician, will not shut up about his magical regimen of minerals that he heard about on the radio show.
"Minerals, dad? You mean Iike you eat dirt?"
"No, scientific minerals, made by pharmacists. All the cancer in this country is because of a lack of minerals in the diet. At the time of the founding fathers of this country, there were very few recorded cases of cancer..."
*sigh, and massive eye roll*
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 9:54 PM on June 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
"Minerals, dad? You mean Iike you eat dirt?"
"No, scientific minerals, made by pharmacists. All the cancer in this country is because of a lack of minerals in the diet. At the time of the founding fathers of this country, there were very few recorded cases of cancer..."
*sigh, and massive eye roll*
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 9:54 PM on June 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
Pseudoscience! Now in two flavours! Vanilla, and Burnt Toast!
posted by tantrumthecat at 9:55 PM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by tantrumthecat at 9:55 PM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
There is MASSIVE overlap between the far left fringe and the far right fringe when it comes to "alternative medicine"
Just on the extremes? There's plenty of, say, "Hollywood liberals", "socially liberal but economically conservatives", or people from all other color of the political spectrum that believe anything some snake oil salesman that gets pasts their defenses tells them. I'd argue belief in pseudoscience is not a matter of political belief, class or even intelligence, and trying to frame the issue under any of those is pointless.
posted by lmfsilva at 10:38 PM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
Just on the extremes? There's plenty of, say, "Hollywood liberals", "socially liberal but economically conservatives", or people from all other color of the political spectrum that believe anything some snake oil salesman that gets pasts their defenses tells them. I'd argue belief in pseudoscience is not a matter of political belief, class or even intelligence, and trying to frame the issue under any of those is pointless.
posted by lmfsilva at 10:38 PM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
This is apropos of nothing, but on that list is something called Chaga Mushroom. It's a parasitic fungus that grows on birch trees in cold climates (like here in Canada). To the best of my knowledge, this is a product that can't be grown in farmed conditions but must be harvested wild. In anycase, I have a passing acquaintance with a fellow who has been harvesting this stuff for years for his chaga tea business (not sure of the appeal personally as it literally tastes like wood) and he was telling me that it is becoming increasingly difficult to find the fungus in the usual spots and that he's encountering more "professional" chaga hunters who use GPS, helicopters, who are indifferent to the ownership of the property they happen to be on and are over-harvesting the mushroom. He felt he was ok for his very small scale business because he had relationships with property owners and First Nations groups but was worried about the potential destruction of the forests and the chaga's viability because of these "big city" mushroom hunters.
posted by Ashwagandha at 8:22 AM on June 30, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Ashwagandha at 8:22 AM on June 30, 2017 [4 favorites]
Also apropos of nothing, do you see yourself as more of a Goop or a Infowars, Ashwagandha?
posted by maryr at 10:17 AM on June 30, 2017
posted by maryr at 10:17 AM on June 30, 2017
I'm a Canadian so I side with neither.
posted by Ashwagandha at 12:35 PM on June 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Ashwagandha at 12:35 PM on June 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
there has been a notable uptick in gendered meanness within the last year
I TEACH MAN LESSONS.
MY WIFE TEACHES WOMAN LESSONS.
posted by acb at 5:00 PM on June 30, 2017
I TEACH MAN LESSONS.
MY WIFE TEACHES WOMAN LESSONS.
posted by acb at 5:00 PM on June 30, 2017
There is MASSIVE overlap between the far left fringe and the far right fringe when it comes to "alternative medicine"
Myth: “hippies”/alternative-lifestyle types both were and remained uniformly left-wing politically.
posted by acb at 5:02 PM on June 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
Myth: “hippies”/alternative-lifestyle types both were and remained uniformly left-wing politically.
posted by acb at 5:02 PM on June 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
Of all the various bits of alternative medicine that my parents tried out over the years, I'd vote for exactly one of them: Reflexology. The theory was entirely bullshit, but it provides an excuse for foot massages, which are always a good thing.
posted by clawsoon at 6:28 PM on June 30, 2017
posted by clawsoon at 6:28 PM on June 30, 2017
selenium (when taken by the mother) can cause birth defects
Dietary selenium repletion may reduce cancer incidence in people at high risk who live in areas with low soil selenium
It seems you should be actually tracking blood tests and supplementing based on what your are lacking. Subject to making a decision that government recommended test levels should be followed of course.
posted by rough ashlar at 7:08 AM on July 16, 2017
Dietary selenium repletion may reduce cancer incidence in people at high risk who live in areas with low soil selenium
It seems you should be actually tracking blood tests and supplementing based on what your are lacking. Subject to making a decision that government recommended test levels should be followed of course.
posted by rough ashlar at 7:08 AM on July 16, 2017
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posted by tonycpsu at 9:17 AM on June 29, 2017 [19 favorites]