A show where an interviewer interviews interviewers about interviewing

July 8, 2017 12:06 PM

The Turnaround with Jesse Thorn is a limited-run podcast that interviews world class interviewers about how they do what they do. Running throughout this summer, it has already featured Ira Glass, Susan Orlean, Audie Cornish, Marc Maron, and Larry King, with more to come including Werner Herzog, Anna Sale, Katie Couric, and Terry Gross. The podcast is a co-production with the Columbia Journalism Review, where you can find edited transcripts of each episode. (And yes, Jesse is mefi's own YoungAmerican.)
posted by ocherdraco (35 comments total)

Ask!
posted by dismas at 12:07 PM on July 8, 2017 [7 favorites]

I've really been enjoying this. I hope we get one where they turn it around and someone interviews Jesse!
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 12:08 PM on July 8, 2017 [1 favorite]

Interesting how it looks like AskMe didn't exactly provide the name but several people hit on the concept of "turning it around".
posted by bleep at 1:01 PM on July 8, 2017 [1 favorite]

Well, and someone's username in that thread is inturnaround.
posted by aniola at 1:12 PM on July 8, 2017 [1 favorite]

Good old Jesse þorn...

(And I've known a few Hollywood creative folks for whom a project "in turnaround" is a state of Development Limbo just short of Development Hell)
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:14 PM on July 8, 2017 [1 favorite]

The final name for The Turnaround is a lot closer to the AskMeFi suggestions than the last time he asked us help name his podcast...
posted by midmarch snowman at 2:15 PM on July 8, 2017

A) Terry Gross is a bad interviewer
B) Not a single CBC person from North of the border? Carol Off? Michael Enright? Newbie Tom Power? No Brits? It's not that hard to do a phone interview.
posted by GuyZero at 2:26 PM on July 8, 2017 [3 favorites]

I love it when I learn about a great sounding new podcast. Thank you @ocherdraco!!
posted by Sheydem-tants at 3:19 PM on July 8, 2017

This show is so very good. My wish list for season 2 (I know that Jesse asked several of these and they declined or didn't respond):
Oprah
Jorge Ramos
John Humphrys (BBC Radio 4)
Charlie Rose
Barbara Walters
Ta-Nehisi Coates

I highly recommend the show!
posted by cushie at 3:32 PM on July 8, 2017 [2 favorites]

Jonah Keri interviewed Jesse last year, though I agree that it'd be nice to have a Turnaround ep. with him as well.
posted by chrchr at 3:56 PM on July 8, 2017

Ira: That’s a really good question. That’s a really, really good question.

kinda a love fest but interesting
posted by sammyo at 4:53 PM on July 8, 2017

I realized my enthusiasm for this is dampened not just because I find Jesse Thorn way more interesting to listen to than many of his subjects. It's also that the subjects who annoy me do so specifically because I think they are both over-praised and over-exposed, so the last thing I want to listen to is Jesse Thorn spending time giving them more praise and exposure!

Still, if I don't just blindly click on the pod feed I can probably listen to a good number of these safely.
posted by mark k at 4:54 PM on July 8, 2017

A) Terry Gross is a bad interviewer

In what sense?

B) Not a single CBC person from North of the border? Carol Off? Michael Enright? Newbie Tom Power? No Brits? It's not that hard to do a phone interview.

The podcast is less than a month old, and Jesse's an American (I think). Starting with what you know is hardly a sin, or even unusual. Perhaps you could share a couple of ideas with him, instead of just bitching about it on The Blue.
posted by Frayed Knot at 5:09 PM on July 8, 2017 [7 favorites]

I'm pretty excited for Anna Sale, who I honestly think may be the best interviewer I've ever heard. I like some of these people better than others, but I think it's interesting to hear from even someone whose interview style I don't really love. I listened to a lot of Larry King as a kid, because I was an insomniac who discovered talk radio at a time when there weren't a ton of choices, and I honestly don't think he's a very good interviewer. (Or at least he wasn't in the '80s. Maybe he's grown.) I seem to remember that he had a philosophical objection to preparing at all for interviews, because he thought that was a stand-in for the audience and should be as ignorant about the subject of his interview as his audience was. That's basically the opposite of Jesse's approach, and I'm curious to hear them discuss their different philosophies. I haven't listened to that one yet.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 5:24 PM on July 8, 2017 [1 favorite]

Unbelievable episode with Audie Cornish. Am afraid to listen to anything else because it can't possibly be that good! So many great moments, powerful statements, great articulations of things that we talk about in the user research world, mostly said much better than any of us do. Will be telling everyone about this podcast!
posted by stevil at 5:27 PM on July 8, 2017 [3 favorites]

I agree: Terry Gross has great producers who book great guests, but she is a terrible interviewer. Uptalk, frequent "you know," no understanding of music (which makes her musician interviews particularly cringe-worthy), and generally just not a thoughtful interviewer who elicits surprising comments or thoughts out of interviewees beyond what you'd expect them to say when they are promoting their current project or idea. Heck I am a better interviewer, as a total amateur (warning, self-link - OK w/ mods?)
posted by twsf at 6:01 PM on July 8, 2017 [2 favorites]

One thing about Terry Gross that drives me nuts is this: if there is any way to find a prurient or nosy-gossipy angle to an episode, she will find it and work it. I'm amazed her subjects are so polite to her when she does it. She is just a Mediocre Mind.
posted by mmiddle at 6:49 PM on July 8, 2017 [1 favorite]

I will still listen to teri gross because she has the clout to pull in great guests, but she inevitably asks insipid questions. But NPR as a whole is like that; amazing reach, great topics, terrible takes on those topics that make you cry thinking of the lost opportunities
posted by eustatic at 8:55 PM on July 8, 2017 [4 favorites]

This sounds great. Thanks! There's nobody in the world who can interview teenagers as well as Ira Glass. And there's nobody in the world who can interview adults who aren't either scientists or assholes as well as Terry Gross. (There's an opportunity just waiting there for people who are good at interviewing elderly asshole scientists. And plenty of candidates with media traction.)

Pretty sure I'm going to skip the Marc Maron and Werner Herzon episodes. Life's too short to spend with either of them.
posted by eotvos at 8:56 PM on July 8, 2017 [1 favorite]

Dang, I wanted to chime in and agree with eotvos regarding Terry Gross, but then I read the small text and now I have to disagree regarding Werner Herzog and and Marc Maron.

What's with the Terry Gross hate? I thought we all agreed she was an American treasure.
posted by Telf at 5:29 AM on July 9, 2017 [2 favorites]

Omg an Oprah interview would be so cool
posted by oceanjesse at 6:15 AM on July 9, 2017 [1 favorite]

Diane Rehm

Diane Rehm

Diane Rehm

Also, please please look at the local but very interesting Frank Stasio. He's bringing in a very interesting and diverse group of guests - political, artistic, activists, just fascinating - and I think his previous life as a teacher really informs his approach -- and the skill set of teaching is, I believe, informing his work in ways that could be incredibly helpful for a lot of media work. I hope he does not go national because there is a huge need for locally-focused work of this kind.

I'd also love to hear about work done by other local shows.
posted by amtho at 6:28 AM on July 9, 2017 [3 favorites]

A nice twist would be Jesse interviewing (his pal) Tom Scharpling about his decades of interviews with fictional characters played by Jon Wurster. Even though Tom would continually refer to him as "Jesse Thorpe."
posted by Beardman at 7:36 AM on July 9, 2017

I'm on board for Terri Gross and Marc Marion, but Werner Herzog!? Ugh. Might as well just give everyone a straight razor, explain in monotone the futility of existence and then see how long it takes them to slit their wrists.

PS - Haha, shitting on random interviewers is fun! Who's gonna come up with the next wacky love/hate combination?

PPS - In all seriousness, though, wtf is Larry King on this list?
posted by Big Al 8000 at 8:26 AM on July 9, 2017 [1 favorite]

My pal Woody Battaglia recently interviewed Jesse! Here's where you can hear it! https://m.mixcloud.com/AlmostTuesday/interview-special-with-jesse-thorn-episode-80-from-july-3rd-2017/
posted by chr1sb0y at 10:56 AM on July 9, 2017 [1 favorite]

That was super interesting, chr1sb0y, and gets at the "why Larry King" question. Basically, he thinks Larry King is a really good interviewer and thinks that one of his merits is that he's not afraid to ask questions that make him look stupid. That makes him a good interviewer, but it also makes some people look down on him, because they think he's stupid.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 11:18 AM on July 9, 2017 [1 favorite]

Oh, and Terry Gross haters: the reason that he had Terry Gross on is because she's "the perfect beautiful genius of this thing." He clearly reveres her.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 11:26 AM on July 9, 2017

Every time Terri Gross comes up here she's surprisingly controversial. I guess personally she kinda defines a lot of my expectations of "an interviewer," which makes it hard for me to see her as a particularly great or particularly terrible one.
posted by atoxyl at 5:02 PM on July 9, 2017

I was surprised at my distaste for the different responses that take a moral stance on not preparing. What? that seems disingenuous or even negligent. I suppose I wanted to hear much more on preparation; I know not every interviewer can be narduwar , or prepare story circles like junebug productions, but there must be a ton of preparation even to decide which people to talk to!

pretending that no one made a decision on who to talk to is frustrating for an interview series about interviews because that seems like half the battle.

pretending at objectivity in a space, especially radio, that excels at intimate subjectivity, seems like a waste of time. It does seem like the people with more clout have to prepare less; it just seems lazy to me.
posted by eustatic at 5:43 PM on July 9, 2017

Good point re: the stupid question. and Interesting that ira glass has his version of the stupid question, but he usually edits it out for the sake of his editorial vision.

But even if it s an act, there are plenty of assumptions that construct what the 'stupid question' is, assumptions about the audience and even the interview subject that are usually stupid themselves.

it s like telling a sexist joke and saying "oh it was just a joke". The teller still thought it was going to be funny.
posted by eustatic at 6:11 PM on July 9, 2017

I love this show so much. I am sorry, I don't really have any intelligent commentary, but I have just been enjoying the shit out of it.

From Twitter interactions with Jesse, it sounds l like it was an incredible amount of work without a lot of financial reward. I get the impression that he feels like he did it for his own education, so he doesn't feel right profiting from the show. I really hope there is another season, because there are so many other great interviewers out there who I want to hear from!
posted by radioamy at 7:38 PM on July 9, 2017 [2 favorites]

I listened to Susan Orlean and it was awesome. Doubts about the series I expressed earlier totally extinguished. Either the Tom Hanks or Lemon Ice King anecdotes alone would be worth the price of entry but both tie into larger comments on interviewing.

Will now probably listen to everything, including Terry Gross and Larry King who were two of the unnamed ones I was planning to skip.

What's with the Terry Gross hate? I thought we all agreed she was an American treasure.

I was trying to be oblique at first so as not to have her dominate the thread but kind of too late. I'll just say personally my resistance to her charms is because I think the percentage of the times she engages with the work, as opposed to the biography, of the person she's interviewing is exceedingly low. That the few works she does clearly like are not my cup of tea doesn't help.

I assume this ties into eotvos liking her except for scientists--unless they're flogging a memoir there's not much of a hook for to get into her comfort zone.

I don't think she's objectively bad. If you want biographical stuff out of artists on interviews you'll get it from her.

The controversy on threads like this is IMO both overblown and unsurprising. Part contrarian MeFites, part reaction to the intense praise and ubiquity of the show. (Until recently she was at least 20 hours a week on the two stations I donated to, now down to the low teens.)
posted by mark k at 8:56 PM on July 9, 2017 [1 favorite]

Relevant for the Herzon haters.

Oscar-nominee Joaquin Phoenix was rescued from his car wreck last week by German cult director Werner Herzog. The 31-year-old Walk The Line star overturned his car on a canyon road above Sunset Boulevard in Hollywood after his brakes failed and he collided with another vehicle. Phoenix was saved because he was wearing his seat-belt, but has revealed he was helped from the wreckage by the 63-year-old, who has a home nearby. The actor says, "I remember this knocking on the passenger window. There was this German voice saying, 'Just relax.' There's the airbag, I can't see and I'm saying, 'I'm fine. I am relaxed. Finally, I rolled down the window and this head pops inside. And he said, 'No, you're not.' And suddenly I said to myself, 'That's Werner Herzog' There's something so calming and beautiful about Werner Herzog's voice. I felt completely fine and safe. I climbed out. I got out of the car and I said, 'Thank you,' and he was gone."
posted by Telf at 8:59 PM on July 9, 2017 [3 favorites]

mark k,
Great explanation. Thanks.
posted by Telf at 9:00 PM on July 9, 2017

So apologies for coming off as cranky - I was replying on my phone and merely being terse.

I hate that I probably seem unhinged about Ms Gross but so, so many times I've heard her make factual errors where she ends up being contradicted by her guests and it makes me a little crazy.Like she'll say to a musician "oh you toured Brazil in 83?" and they'll say "no, it was 94" and it seems like the kind of rookie mistake that five seconds on wikipedia could have prevented. Maybe it's her staff, maybe it doesn't matter. It bothers me. I don't love her style overall either but I'll admit to that being subjective.
posted by GuyZero at 9:29 PM on July 9, 2017 [2 favorites]