a.k.a. Hoover chicken
August 28, 2017 7:09 AM Subscribe
David McCowan of the AV Club's Supper Club asks "Why have Americans stopped eating turtle?"
The slow food revolution never really took off?
*goes off to actually RTFA*
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 7:11 AM on August 28, 2017 [82 favorites]
*goes off to actually RTFA*
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 7:11 AM on August 28, 2017 [82 favorites]
I can't speak for the older generations, but I come from a generational cohort for whom our only model for wanting to dine on turtle soup was an evil ninja voiced by Fresh Prince's Uncle Phil.
posted by Pope Guilty at 7:11 AM on August 28, 2017 [35 favorites]
posted by Pope Guilty at 7:11 AM on August 28, 2017 [35 favorites]
That article spent one line on the collapse in turtle populations as a result of the previous passion for turtle and then just bounced on extolling the virtues of eating them.
posted by lesbiassparrow at 7:18 AM on August 28, 2017 [41 favorites]
posted by lesbiassparrow at 7:18 AM on August 28, 2017 [41 favorites]
I admit, I'm curious to try it, if only for Leonard Cohen's line "Guys like me are mad for turtle meat."
posted by Capt. Renault at 7:24 AM on August 28, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by Capt. Renault at 7:24 AM on August 28, 2017 [9 favorites]
I'm old enough to remember reading restaurant menus in the 70s and 80s, and I've never seen turtle on the menu ever.
Back then was the time of dioxins and PCBs, fresh waters were full of dangerous industrial pollutants that would give people cancer and cause animals to produce shells too weak to stay unbroken until hatching. Turtles were likely on the way to extinction, and eating turtle was about as acceptable then as eating rhinoceros today.
posted by conic at 7:24 AM on August 28, 2017 [12 favorites]
Back then was the time of dioxins and PCBs, fresh waters were full of dangerous industrial pollutants that would give people cancer and cause animals to produce shells too weak to stay unbroken until hatching. Turtles were likely on the way to extinction, and eating turtle was about as acceptable then as eating rhinoceros today.
posted by conic at 7:24 AM on August 28, 2017 [12 favorites]
This weekend I was going through a scrapbook my grandfather made about his trip to England in the 1930s and came across some menus that included 'real turtle soup'... here's a sample from a 'ye olde restaurant' type place.
posted by Huck500 at 7:35 AM on August 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Huck500 at 7:35 AM on August 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
Now that I've R'd it, FTA:
Once a year we all sit down to eat turkey, but when was the last time you had snipe, mutton, or rabbit?
Um...one of these things is not like the others.
Anyway, this comment on the AV Club page:
Turtle IS delicious, but since so many of the sea-dwelling species are endangered, and turtles of nearly all species take YEARS to raise, making turtle farming costly, I wouldn’t count on it making a comeback.
...got me curious as to what the legit turtle trade really looks like.
I came across this report: Sustainable Trade in Turtles and Tortoises: Action Plan for North America (large pdf, with abstract here)
From the executive summary - and sorry for the long quote, but figure not everyone wants to trudge through a 60-page pdf:
In Canada, the commercial importation of live turtles as pets is prohibited under the Health of Animals Act. Live turtles may be imported into Canada for zoos, scientific and educational purposes, and only with permits issued by Canadian Food Inspection Agency (CFIA). Permits may be issued for importation for personal purposes, but they are usually limited to pets that have been in the possession of their owners for some time before travelling or moving to Canada. Due to the prohibition on imports, the Canadian market for pet turtles has been met through smuggling—primarily from the United States—and captive breeding of animals already in the country. Illegal importation continues and the ancestry of most captive-bred turtles in Canada is likely to trace back to specimens that originally entered the country illegally. Pet turtles in Canada generally sell for much higher prices than in the United States. The higher prices offer an added incentive to smuggle specimens into the country.
Mexico does not appear to be a significant market for most of the priority turtle species, with the exceptions of D. mawii and G. berlandieri. Both species are native to Mexico, are traded domestically and are exported from Mexico for commercial purposes. Meat from D. mawii is in high demand in Mexico and other Central American countries, particularly at Easter time. Because of overhunting, D. mawii may be the most endangered turtle species in Mexico. Illegal hunting and trade continues, and populations continue to decline. Registered individuals may legally breed, sell and export G. berlandieri, and specimens are readily available for sale in Mexico for pets. Some specimens are offered with documentation to show that they were legally captivebred,but specimens that were illegally bred or captured in the wild are also available. One Mexican breeder suggested that the sale of illegal tortoises is a huge problem and very difficult to control.
In the United States, the trade in turtles is highly commercialized. Some states allow the collection of wild turtles for domestic and international trade, while captive-breeding operations range from hobbyists to large-scale turtle farming. Regulations governing possession, breeding, and trade of tortoises and freshwater turtles vary by state and species. The US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) prohibits the sale of live turtles with a carapace of less than four inches in length, although smaller turtles may be exported. Larger turtles may be imported and sold.
A single farm exists in Maryland that produces large quantities of M. terrapin. The other priority turtle species are bred in small-scale (“backyard”) facilities and not farmed in large quantities. Captive breeding of Terrapene species is commonplace among backyard breeders, but collectively they do not appear to produce great numbers. Captive production of C. guttata, E. blandingii, and G. insculpta appears to be even lower.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 7:38 AM on August 28, 2017 [7 favorites]
Once a year we all sit down to eat turkey, but when was the last time you had snipe, mutton, or rabbit?
Um...one of these things is not like the others.
Anyway, this comment on the AV Club page:
Turtle IS delicious, but since so many of the sea-dwelling species are endangered, and turtles of nearly all species take YEARS to raise, making turtle farming costly, I wouldn’t count on it making a comeback.
...got me curious as to what the legit turtle trade really looks like.
I came across this report: Sustainable Trade in Turtles and Tortoises: Action Plan for North America (large pdf, with abstract here)
From the executive summary - and sorry for the long quote, but figure not everyone wants to trudge through a 60-page pdf:
In Canada, the commercial importation of live turtles as pets is prohibited under the Health of Animals Act. Live turtles may be imported into Canada for zoos, scientific and educational purposes, and only with permits issued by Canadian Food Inspection Agency (CFIA). Permits may be issued for importation for personal purposes, but they are usually limited to pets that have been in the possession of their owners for some time before travelling or moving to Canada. Due to the prohibition on imports, the Canadian market for pet turtles has been met through smuggling—primarily from the United States—and captive breeding of animals already in the country. Illegal importation continues and the ancestry of most captive-bred turtles in Canada is likely to trace back to specimens that originally entered the country illegally. Pet turtles in Canada generally sell for much higher prices than in the United States. The higher prices offer an added incentive to smuggle specimens into the country.
Mexico does not appear to be a significant market for most of the priority turtle species, with the exceptions of D. mawii and G. berlandieri. Both species are native to Mexico, are traded domestically and are exported from Mexico for commercial purposes. Meat from D. mawii is in high demand in Mexico and other Central American countries, particularly at Easter time. Because of overhunting, D. mawii may be the most endangered turtle species in Mexico. Illegal hunting and trade continues, and populations continue to decline. Registered individuals may legally breed, sell and export G. berlandieri, and specimens are readily available for sale in Mexico for pets. Some specimens are offered with documentation to show that they were legally captivebred,but specimens that were illegally bred or captured in the wild are also available. One Mexican breeder suggested that the sale of illegal tortoises is a huge problem and very difficult to control.
In the United States, the trade in turtles is highly commercialized. Some states allow the collection of wild turtles for domestic and international trade, while captive-breeding operations range from hobbyists to large-scale turtle farming. Regulations governing possession, breeding, and trade of tortoises and freshwater turtles vary by state and species. The US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) prohibits the sale of live turtles with a carapace of less than four inches in length, although smaller turtles may be exported. Larger turtles may be imported and sold.
A single farm exists in Maryland that produces large quantities of M. terrapin. The other priority turtle species are bred in small-scale (“backyard”) facilities and not farmed in large quantities. Captive breeding of Terrapene species is commonplace among backyard breeders, but collectively they do not appear to produce great numbers. Captive production of C. guttata, E. blandingii, and G. insculpta appears to be even lower.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 7:38 AM on August 28, 2017 [7 favorites]
Um...one of these things is not like the others.
Nah, snipe is a game bird that people really do eat, not just a fiction.
posted by Wolfdog at 7:43 AM on August 28, 2017 [17 favorites]
Nah, snipe is a game bird that people really do eat, not just a fiction.
posted by Wolfdog at 7:43 AM on August 28, 2017 [17 favorites]
In the South, the poorest turned to the native gopher tortoise as a source of protein, calling their catch “Hoover chicken.” When peace and prosperity in America returned, turtle retained the stigma of those hard times.
Uh, 'gopher pulling' aka the letting down of a large baited hook into a tortoise's burrow and yanking it out is still a known clandestine 'hunting' activity that's not at all unheard of (though never practiced myself) to this southern raised individual.
I was under the impression that the answer to this, rhetorical I suppose, question of "Why have Americans stopped eating turtle?" isn't some idealistic taste bud thing but is instead that we humans are quite good at sending all but the most wary or ill-tasting of things (be they animal, vegetable, or mineral) the way of the dodo bird out of sheer ignorance and over-consumption. Aka, the answer is that it's either impossible to find them anymore in the numbers they once existed in or it's super illegal and doing so is more risk than the reward is worth.
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:48 AM on August 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
Uh, 'gopher pulling' aka the letting down of a large baited hook into a tortoise's burrow and yanking it out is still a known clandestine 'hunting' activity that's not at all unheard of (though never practiced myself) to this southern raised individual.
I was under the impression that the answer to this, rhetorical I suppose, question of "Why have Americans stopped eating turtle?" isn't some idealistic taste bud thing but is instead that we humans are quite good at sending all but the most wary or ill-tasting of things (be they animal, vegetable, or mineral) the way of the dodo bird out of sheer ignorance and over-consumption. Aka, the answer is that it's either impossible to find them anymore in the numbers they once existed in or it's super illegal and doing so is more risk than the reward is worth.
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:48 AM on August 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
Bout a year ago discount grocer had 3 cases of canned turtle soup @ 51 cents a can. Some guy on the label who probably has a show on tv. I bought one can and went back the next day to find the display still only missing the one can. Nobody else got any of that.
posted by Mr. Yuck at 7:49 AM on August 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Mr. Yuck at 7:49 AM on August 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
Crickets are the protein of the future.
posted by Artw at 7:53 AM on August 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Artw at 7:53 AM on August 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
I had turtle soup once when the restaurant I was working in ran it as a special - and it was really delicious. That said I have no desire to ever eat it again or see it come back.
posted by Miko at 7:55 AM on August 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Miko at 7:55 AM on August 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
Nah, snipe is a game bird that people really do eat, not just a fiction.
Goddamnit.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 8:01 AM on August 28, 2017 [8 favorites]
Goddamnit.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 8:01 AM on August 28, 2017 [8 favorites]
I used to eat snapper soup all the time in Greek-run family restaurants on the East Coast...actually had some a few years back at a diner in southern New Jersey. Really good with sherry. But if doing so is unsustainable, that might be my last bowl ever.
posted by tully_monster at 8:02 AM on August 28, 2017
posted by tully_monster at 8:02 AM on August 28, 2017
This part smells a little fishy:
posted by Dr Dracator at 8:04 AM on August 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
First, since nearly all turtle soup recipes call for fortified wine—sherry or Madeira typically—America’s “noble experiment” forced the traditional preparation into hiatus and out of diners’ minds. “Prohibition in 1919 put an end to the public consumption of dishes employing fortified wines,” writes David S. Shields in his book Southern Provisions.It sounds strange that an entire class of dishes was abandoned because just one ingredient had to go - as if turtle meat has some specific property that makes it unusable without the alcohol.
posted by Dr Dracator at 8:04 AM on August 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
I don't remember for sure the last time I had rabbit, but the best rabbit I ever had was one that my siberian husky caught and brought back to me on a snowy winter day. I really don't know why she didn't just eat it, but anyway I cleaned it, cooked it, and we shared it.
posted by Wolfdog at 8:06 AM on August 28, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Wolfdog at 8:06 AM on August 28, 2017 [5 favorites]
Came for the Lewis Carroll... was disappointed
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 8:08 AM on August 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 8:08 AM on August 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
I remember Les Stroud talking about the worst experience he'd ever had when on location filming one of his Survivorman episodes. (Ah, here it is.) He said it was probably when he'd caught and eaten a turtle. He thought the turtle had some sort of parasite that infected the inside of his cheek, giving him "all these snaking lesions" (roundworms?).
My brain knows that was probably an undercooked turtle, and one not farm raised. But still, every time I think of eating turtle I think of that story and it puts me off my feed.
posted by darkstar at 8:16 AM on August 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
My brain knows that was probably an undercooked turtle, and one not farm raised. But still, every time I think of eating turtle I think of that story and it puts me off my feed.
posted by darkstar at 8:16 AM on August 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
One of my first memories as a wee baby corporate droneling was when the head of our group took his associates out for the annual luncheon -- he was old, old, old school WASP, to the point of having the same last name as a president because he was the dude's grandson.
And when he took us out, it wasn't to a restaurant or a catered lunch or something. Instead, he took us to """""""his club."""""" Like, he led a little line of us wee baby dronelings in our wee baby droneling suits out of the office, and we turned down this tiny little street that I didn't know existed even though it was two blocks from the office and three blocks from where I'd been living for months, led us through an unmarked outer door, and went up a set of carpeted stairs where an elderly black man instructed a younger black man to take our coats and hats while he chatted with the group head. Then, we got seated in a wood-paneled room, where we were handed menus printed on cardstock that did not have prices, and all the prints were of horses, dogs, and city monuments, and all the oil paintings were of white men.
It was one of those Moments, I think, for somebody like me who had grown up solidly middle class in suburbia. I went to public school from K-12. I think it was Moment, too, for a lot of the other people around the table. And of course the guy ordered turtle soup to start with, and explained to our O_o o_O O_o faces that it was a lovely old tradition in the city, old-school Philadelphia, and he recommended it with a little sherry, which they knew to bring him without asking. There may have been a toast at the end of the meal.
So yeah, that's what I think when I hear turtle soup.
posted by joyceanmachine at 8:18 AM on August 28, 2017 [41 favorites]
And when he took us out, it wasn't to a restaurant or a catered lunch or something. Instead, he took us to """""""his club."""""" Like, he led a little line of us wee baby dronelings in our wee baby droneling suits out of the office, and we turned down this tiny little street that I didn't know existed even though it was two blocks from the office and three blocks from where I'd been living for months, led us through an unmarked outer door, and went up a set of carpeted stairs where an elderly black man instructed a younger black man to take our coats and hats while he chatted with the group head. Then, we got seated in a wood-paneled room, where we were handed menus printed on cardstock that did not have prices, and all the prints were of horses, dogs, and city monuments, and all the oil paintings were of white men.
It was one of those Moments, I think, for somebody like me who had grown up solidly middle class in suburbia. I went to public school from K-12. I think it was Moment, too, for a lot of the other people around the table. And of course the guy ordered turtle soup to start with, and explained to our O_o o_O O_o faces that it was a lovely old tradition in the city, old-school Philadelphia, and he recommended it with a little sherry, which they knew to bring him without asking. There may have been a toast at the end of the meal.
So yeah, that's what I think when I hear turtle soup.
posted by joyceanmachine at 8:18 AM on August 28, 2017 [41 favorites]
There is a Facebook page for my smallish-town area's history and they recently posted about turtle cook-offs: Turtle Fry Every Fri and Hirdler the Turtler, both from the 1960s.
posted by jillithd at 8:20 AM on August 28, 2017
posted by jillithd at 8:20 AM on August 28, 2017
mutton, or rabbit?
I believe both terms were originally one half of an age-related pair. 'Mutton', perhaps not yet irretrievable, is mature sheepmeat, as opposed to the young variety, 'lamb', which is basically all we get these days. Much more obscurely, 'rabbit' was originally the young version of a 'coney'.
posted by Segundus at 8:22 AM on August 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
I believe both terms were originally one half of an age-related pair. 'Mutton', perhaps not yet irretrievable, is mature sheepmeat, as opposed to the young variety, 'lamb', which is basically all we get these days. Much more obscurely, 'rabbit' was originally the young version of a 'coney'.
posted by Segundus at 8:22 AM on August 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
I remember a story related by Stephen Fry on QI, that for a long time there was no type specimen of the Galapagos giant tortoise in the UK because the animal was so delicious it always got eaten on the voyage home. Which seems incredible on the face of it, given the dedication of scientific collectors back then, but strange things do happen at sea.
posted by Devonian at 8:47 AM on August 28, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Devonian at 8:47 AM on August 28, 2017 [5 favorites]
Turtle Soup was (and from a quick check still is) on the menu at the Commander's Palace in New Orleans when I went there several years ago. It was enough of an anomaly from anything I'd ever seen on a menu before that I assumed "turtle" was a euphemism in the same way "Buffalo" wings aren't really buffalo. The soup was good, even if it was weird to wrap my mind around eating an animal I typically associated as a housepet.
posted by The Gooch at 8:48 AM on August 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by The Gooch at 8:48 AM on August 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
If you have never watched that segment of QI, do so now, but not while drinking anything.
posted by Wolfdog at 8:48 AM on August 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Wolfdog at 8:48 AM on August 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
Why have Americans stopped eating turtle?
Turtles are long-lived creatures that reproduce slowly, and demand for the animal pushed populations to the brink.
That's your reason right there. They take too long (decades) to reach maturity to be worth farming, and they reproduce too slowly to be sustainably hunted. People in some areas do still eat it for subsistence reasons or as a local delicacy, but there's no way to sustain a large commercial market in turtle meat on the scale of something like beef or chicken. Not gonna happen.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 8:52 AM on August 28, 2017 [8 favorites]
Turtles are long-lived creatures that reproduce slowly, and demand for the animal pushed populations to the brink.
That's your reason right there. They take too long (decades) to reach maturity to be worth farming, and they reproduce too slowly to be sustainably hunted. People in some areas do still eat it for subsistence reasons or as a local delicacy, but there's no way to sustain a large commercial market in turtle meat on the scale of something like beef or chicken. Not gonna happen.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 8:52 AM on August 28, 2017 [8 favorites]
strange things do happen at sea
"Rum, buggery, and the turtle."
-- Churchill
posted by orange ball at 8:57 AM on August 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
"Rum, buggery, and the turtle."
-- Churchill
posted by orange ball at 8:57 AM on August 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
'rabbit' was originally the young version of a 'coney'.
Rabbit is extremely lean and older specimens can be quite tough. So while you might grill a young rabbit, the older coneys are generally ground into sausage. Even then the taste can be somewhat bland, which is why they're usually served in a bun topped with a savory meat sauce.
posted by ryanrs at 9:08 AM on August 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
Rabbit is extremely lean and older specimens can be quite tough. So while you might grill a young rabbit, the older coneys are generally ground into sausage. Even then the taste can be somewhat bland, which is why they're usually served in a bun topped with a savory meat sauce.
posted by ryanrs at 9:08 AM on August 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
An Automated Cricket Farm Could Bring Bug-Based Food to the Masses
posted by Artw at 9:09 AM on August 28, 2017
posted by Artw at 9:09 AM on August 28, 2017
They take too long (decades) to reach maturity to be worth farming, and they reproduce too slowly to be sustainably hunted. People in some areas do still eat it for subsistence reasons or as a local delicacy, but there's no way to sustain a large commercial market in turtle meat on the scale of something like beef or chicken. Not gonna happen.
Given that turtles are supposed to be so damned delicious (see QI clip linked above), I don't understand why they're not farmed and marketed as high-end premium meat for the billionaire class. Most of those people's satisfaction seems to come from conspicuous consumption, and what better way to advertise your own over-privileged status that eating turtle meat for breakfast, lunch and dinner?
Make each mouthful expensive enough, and you'd not only increase its appeal in that market, but maybe have a chance of making turtle farming profitable after all.
posted by Paul Slade at 9:12 AM on August 28, 2017
Given that turtles are supposed to be so damned delicious (see QI clip linked above), I don't understand why they're not farmed and marketed as high-end premium meat for the billionaire class. Most of those people's satisfaction seems to come from conspicuous consumption, and what better way to advertise your own over-privileged status that eating turtle meat for breakfast, lunch and dinner?
Make each mouthful expensive enough, and you'd not only increase its appeal in that market, but maybe have a chance of making turtle farming profitable after all.
posted by Paul Slade at 9:12 AM on August 28, 2017
We used to eat canned turtle soup occasionally when I was young. This was in the Philadelphia area. We were definitely lower middle class, so they must have sold it at the A&P and not just the Union League.
posted by interplanetjanet at 9:25 AM on August 28, 2017
posted by interplanetjanet at 9:25 AM on August 28, 2017
which is why they're usually served in a bun topped with a savory meat sauce.
Almost got me.
posted by ArgentCorvid at 9:32 AM on August 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
Almost got me.
posted by ArgentCorvid at 9:32 AM on August 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
Farmed softshell turtle is about 20 yuan/500g in China, why can't they do it here? Lifecycle is about 2 years until harvestable age, 5 years until reproducing age
posted by hleehowon at 9:44 AM on August 28, 2017
posted by hleehowon at 9:44 AM on August 28, 2017
Diamondback is also harvestable at 2 years, definitely not chicken or lamb but very comparable to beef
posted by hleehowon at 9:45 AM on August 28, 2017
posted by hleehowon at 9:45 AM on August 28, 2017
AgentCorvid, they're more popular in Michigan, where rabbit hunting is still a popular sport.
posted by ryanrs at 9:47 AM on August 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by ryanrs at 9:47 AM on August 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
Funny, I always associated them with Duck Season.
posted by Quindar Beep at 9:49 AM on August 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Quindar Beep at 9:49 AM on August 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
Funny, I always associated them with Duck Season.
Rabbit season.
posted by Talez at 9:51 AM on August 28, 2017 [22 favorites]
Rabbit season.
posted by Talez at 9:51 AM on August 28, 2017 [22 favorites]
There is a 19th C mansion in Providence, RI, whose builder liked turtle so much that the basement was designed as a tank for sea turtles. Or so I was told by an apparently sober RI Historical Society guide.
posted by GenjiandProust at 9:56 AM on August 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by GenjiandProust at 9:56 AM on August 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
To quote the famous Reddit report meme: "Turtles are friends, not food!"
posted by wwwwolf at 10:00 AM on August 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by wwwwolf at 10:00 AM on August 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
Are turtle soup and cooter stew the same thing? If so, this thread is incomplete without a link to Cooter Fest, an annual festival celebrating all things turtle in Allendale, SC. Presumably there is some stew or soup available there, although I don't see it mentioned in the events. If you can't make it to Allendale, here are some recipes (PDF).
posted by jhope71 at 10:11 AM on August 28, 2017
posted by jhope71 at 10:11 AM on August 28, 2017
Isn't the red-eared slider somewhat invasive and hard to control in the US? We could eat those (I don't know if they're actually good to eat).
posted by dilaudid at 10:11 AM on August 28, 2017
posted by dilaudid at 10:11 AM on August 28, 2017
I haven't.
Generally, the soft shelled turtles are what people eat from my neck of the woods, but I enjoy the snapping turtles. In my opinion, they taste a lot better if you soak them in water for several days ( changing it out every day) until the water is clear. They tend to have a lot of gunk on em. After that, you simply clean em and fry it up. Fried turtle was always something to look forward to when I was a kid.
posted by bradth27 at 10:13 AM on August 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
Generally, the soft shelled turtles are what people eat from my neck of the woods, but I enjoy the snapping turtles. In my opinion, they taste a lot better if you soak them in water for several days ( changing it out every day) until the water is clear. They tend to have a lot of gunk on em. After that, you simply clean em and fry it up. Fried turtle was always something to look forward to when I was a kid.
posted by bradth27 at 10:13 AM on August 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
An Automated Cricket Farm Could Bring Bug-Based Food to the Masses
I've never even heard of automated crickets before, let alone farming them.
posted by leotrotsky at 10:29 AM on August 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
I've never even heard of automated crickets before, let alone farming them.
posted by leotrotsky at 10:29 AM on August 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
I had both turtle soup and turtle stew in New Orleans. Like The Gooch, I think I had the turtle soup at the Commander's Palace. I enjoyed it very much. The turtle stew, though, was actually the best food I ate in New Orleans, which is saying a lot, because we ate a lot of good food there. It's been a few years, and I can't remember off the top of my head where I had the turtle stew. I don't think it was anyplace particularly special. But that stew was just soooo good.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 10:30 AM on August 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 10:30 AM on August 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
I've never even heard of automated crickets before
You'd know it if you heard them. They never miss a beat.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 10:31 AM on August 28, 2017 [8 favorites]
You'd know it if you heard them. They never miss a beat.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 10:31 AM on August 28, 2017 [8 favorites]
> Once a year we all sit down to eat turkey, but when was the last time you had snipe, mutton, or rabbit? Um...one of these things is not like the others.
Snipe, the actual bird, is a game bird that is eaten. But they're small, and if you're buying rather than hunting, most people just opt for the more easily-found quail.
The definition of "mutton" varies between countries as to age, characteristics, and even animal (sheep v. goat). In the US, the definition of "lamb" has been nudged forward to include mature sheep. So we do eat "mutton" based on some definitions, we just don't call it that.
Rabbit...I see on menus all the time. I probably order it in restaurants more frequently than I do chicken.
posted by desuetude at 10:53 AM on August 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
Snipe, the actual bird, is a game bird that is eaten. But they're small, and if you're buying rather than hunting, most people just opt for the more easily-found quail.
The definition of "mutton" varies between countries as to age, characteristics, and even animal (sheep v. goat). In the US, the definition of "lamb" has been nudged forward to include mature sheep. So we do eat "mutton" based on some definitions, we just don't call it that.
Rabbit...I see on menus all the time. I probably order it in restaurants more frequently than I do chicken.
posted by desuetude at 10:53 AM on August 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
I had turtle soup back in the early 90s in a restaurant in Memphis. I don't remember the restaurant's name and can't Google anything that indicates it's still there and/or still serving turtle soup. I do remember that it was served as part of a soup trio and that there may have been alligator in one of the other soups. (Ostrich, alligator and turtle are always linked for me as the unusual meats I have eaten; I know I have eaten alligator in another specific restaurant but still feel like it might have also been on the Memphis menu. Ostrich was not.)
posted by dlugoczaj at 11:00 AM on August 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by dlugoczaj at 11:00 AM on August 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
> >This part smells a little fishy:
First, since nearly all turtle soup recipes call for fortified wine—sherry or Madeira typically—America’s “noble experiment” forced the traditional preparation into hiatus and out of diners’ minds. “Prohibition in 1919 put an end to the public consumption of dishes employing fortified wines,” writes David S. Shields in his book Southern Provisions.
>It sounds strange that an entire class of dishes was abandoned because just one ingredient had to go - as if turtle meat has some specific property that makes it unusable without the alcohol.
Yeah, I call bullshit on that, too. To cook without wine, you sub in a splash of vinegar and maybe a pinch of sugar. You lose the ritual of pouring the sherry into your soup but...eh, traditions like that have faded away in the current era anyway. (See also she-crab soup.)
posted by desuetude at 11:01 AM on August 28, 2017
First, since nearly all turtle soup recipes call for fortified wine—sherry or Madeira typically—America’s “noble experiment” forced the traditional preparation into hiatus and out of diners’ minds. “Prohibition in 1919 put an end to the public consumption of dishes employing fortified wines,” writes David S. Shields in his book Southern Provisions.
>It sounds strange that an entire class of dishes was abandoned because just one ingredient had to go - as if turtle meat has some specific property that makes it unusable without the alcohol.
Yeah, I call bullshit on that, too. To cook without wine, you sub in a splash of vinegar and maybe a pinch of sugar. You lose the ritual of pouring the sherry into your soup but...eh, traditions like that have faded away in the current era anyway. (See also she-crab soup.)
posted by desuetude at 11:01 AM on August 28, 2017
Funny, I always associated them with Duck Season.
Rabbit season.
Duck season.
posted by Paul Slade at 11:47 AM on August 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
Rabbit season.
Duck season.
posted by Paul Slade at 11:47 AM on August 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
‘Lastly,’ said Bounderby, ‘as to our Hands. There’s not a Hand in this town, sir, man, woman, or child, but has one ultimate object in life. That object is, to be fed on turtle soup and venison with a gold spoon. Now, they’re not a-going—none of ’em—ever to be fed on turtle soup and venison with a gold spoon. And now you know the place.’--Charles Dickens, Hard Times, 1854
posted by The Underpants Monster at 11:55 AM on August 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
"I'll take the turtle soup."
"Hey Joe! One turtle soup!"
"I've changed my mind. I'll have the pea soup."
"Hold the turtle and make it pea!"
The Blind Waiter, by Sam Raimi
posted by DirtyOldTown at 12:06 PM on August 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
"Hey Joe! One turtle soup!"
"I've changed my mind. I'll have the pea soup."
"Hold the turtle and make it pea!"
The Blind Waiter, by Sam Raimi
posted by DirtyOldTown at 12:06 PM on August 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
I know I have eaten alligator in another specific restaurant but still feel like it might have also been on the Memphis menu.
Fried alligator is delicious. I have an alligator steak in my freezer that I'll be pulling out for the holiday weekend.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 12:33 PM on August 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
Fried alligator is delicious. I have an alligator steak in my freezer that I'll be pulling out for the holiday weekend.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 12:33 PM on August 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
'Mutton'
No surprise here. Why wait three-years for the meat to become tough and gamey when you can get lamb to market instead.
Diamondback is also harvestable at 2 years, definitely not chicken or lamb but very comparable to beef
Might be the ratio of yield to investment in time and money.
As for the rest of you turtle meat lover, you're clearly just paid bots from the Foot Clan.
posted by MiltonRandKalman at 1:19 PM on August 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
No surprise here. Why wait three-years for the meat to become tough and gamey when you can get lamb to market instead.
Diamondback is also harvestable at 2 years, definitely not chicken or lamb but very comparable to beef
Might be the ratio of yield to investment in time and money.
As for the rest of you turtle meat lover, you're clearly just paid bots from the Foot Clan.
posted by MiltonRandKalman at 1:19 PM on August 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
Because they are cute & have these wise little faces & entire cultures believed the world rode on their backs? (I can't eat anything that's ever been a pet. And that includes the snappers.)
posted by Wylie Kyoto at 1:35 PM on August 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Wylie Kyoto at 1:35 PM on August 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
Growing up, my grandfather would put out a trotline to catch catfish. Occasionally he'd catch a softshell turtle, which he'd gleefully dispatch and make into soup or a kind of "chicken fried turtle". It was quite good, tho a huge mess to dress the thing.
posted by kjs3 at 1:58 PM on August 28, 2017
posted by kjs3 at 1:58 PM on August 28, 2017
Invasive red eared sliders are a problem around here with no catch limits. Given the localvore nature of this town, I'm surprised nobody has put 2+2 together.
posted by Ogre Lawless at 2:36 PM on August 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Ogre Lawless at 2:36 PM on August 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
Red slider sliders?
"It's turtles all the way down!"
Markets itself, really.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 2:48 PM on August 28, 2017 [11 favorites]
"It's turtles all the way down!"
Markets itself, really.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 2:48 PM on August 28, 2017 [11 favorites]
Huh. I grew up in Michigan, and though I never saw turtle on a menu that I can remember (maybe some Chinese places), I knew people that ate 'em. I mean, they were the same folks who would buy crawdads from the creek off of us and eat those, so I just assumed it was part of the auto-factory-Southern-cuisine thing that happened a lot around there.
But here in LA, I've seen turtles sold as food in both Chinatown and Santee Alley, and frankly, I had always assumed that the reason they declined was that I'd always been told that they spread salmonella like whoa.
"I had turtle soup back in the early 90s in a restaurant in Memphis. I don't remember the restaurant's name and can't Google anything that indicates it's still there and/or still serving turtle soup. I do remember that it was served as part of a soup trio and that there may have been alligator in one of the other soups. (Ostrich, alligator and turtle are always linked for me as the unusual meats I have eaten; I know I have eaten alligator in another specific restaurant but still feel like it might have also been on the Memphis menu. Ostrich was not.)"
In 2002, I went to BB King's restaurant in Memphis (as the only vegetarian, my vote didn't really count for anything), and watched other people eat a stew that was turtle, alligator and ostrich. I think you could also get snake or bison in it. I remember being told that alligator tastes like a cross between turtle and chicken, and that turtle tastes like a cross between alligator and chicken. As someone who hasn't had any of those, I remember being nonplussed at the attempts at explanation.
posted by klangklangston at 3:39 PM on August 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
But here in LA, I've seen turtles sold as food in both Chinatown and Santee Alley, and frankly, I had always assumed that the reason they declined was that I'd always been told that they spread salmonella like whoa.
"I had turtle soup back in the early 90s in a restaurant in Memphis. I don't remember the restaurant's name and can't Google anything that indicates it's still there and/or still serving turtle soup. I do remember that it was served as part of a soup trio and that there may have been alligator in one of the other soups. (Ostrich, alligator and turtle are always linked for me as the unusual meats I have eaten; I know I have eaten alligator in another specific restaurant but still feel like it might have also been on the Memphis menu. Ostrich was not.)"
In 2002, I went to BB King's restaurant in Memphis (as the only vegetarian, my vote didn't really count for anything), and watched other people eat a stew that was turtle, alligator and ostrich. I think you could also get snake or bison in it. I remember being told that alligator tastes like a cross between turtle and chicken, and that turtle tastes like a cross between alligator and chicken. As someone who hasn't had any of those, I remember being nonplussed at the attempts at explanation.
posted by klangklangston at 3:39 PM on August 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
I dunno! While we're asking questions, why is it that I can't kick other people's children into traffic?
posted by turbid dahlia at 3:40 PM on August 28, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by turbid dahlia at 3:40 PM on August 28, 2017 [5 favorites]
The turtle kraals and turtle cannery were big business for decades here, but nothing will turn you off of it like seeing photos of big boat catches of 50 or 60 gigantic sea turtles in one picture, lined up for expensive dinner tables up north.
It's probably why we go out of our minds posting round-the-clock watches on any turtle nest on the beaches, praying that just one member of the clutch will make it to maturity and return. They hatch to astounding 1000 to 1 odds of even making it 30 feet to the sea, much less crossing the phalanx of predators waiting for them.
Please don't eat the turtle soup. Thank you.
posted by halfbuckaroo at 3:51 PM on August 28, 2017 [5 favorites]
It's probably why we go out of our minds posting round-the-clock watches on any turtle nest on the beaches, praying that just one member of the clutch will make it to maturity and return. They hatch to astounding 1000 to 1 odds of even making it 30 feet to the sea, much less crossing the phalanx of predators waiting for them.
Please don't eat the turtle soup. Thank you.
posted by halfbuckaroo at 3:51 PM on August 28, 2017 [5 favorites]
That article spent one line on the collapse in turtle populations as a result of the previous passion for turtle and then just bounced on extolling the virtues of eating them.
This. Why don't we eat manatees anymore? Get with the program, moron.
posted by snofoam at 5:31 PM on August 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
This. Why don't we eat manatees anymore? Get with the program, moron.
posted by snofoam at 5:31 PM on August 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
Live soft shell turtles can be found in many of the fish markets of Queens & the wet markets of Asia. More notable: one did just make an appearance in a Pete Wells review in the NYTimes. They do have extraordinary plumbing.
posted by with hidden noise at 6:07 PM on August 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by with hidden noise at 6:07 PM on August 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
Huh....I eat turtle and rabbit both fairly regularly and see it on menus all the time. However, I do live in New Orleans. We eat everything.
posted by tryniti at 6:29 PM on August 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by tryniti at 6:29 PM on August 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
I have eaten turtle and it was really good. But I'd never order it willingly, and I still feel kind of bad about it -- I was at someone's house and since I am a polite guest, I ate it with appreciation. I love watching turtles in the wild, and I'll stop the car to help one cross the road.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:09 PM on August 28, 2017
posted by Dip Flash at 7:09 PM on August 28, 2017
As an aside, I was pleased that to see that the writer knew enough to reference Philadelphia as another turtle-eating place, but disappointed that he dropped it and only interviewed Louisianans. There are plenty of folks like interplanetjanet who remember eating canned turtle soup as an ordinary thing, and it's still served in classic clubs and some restaurants. It's not de rigueur here any longer, but it's not surprising, either.
posted by desuetude at 10:54 PM on August 28, 2017
posted by desuetude at 10:54 PM on August 28, 2017
I had a girlfriend from Ville Platte whose dad would cook turtle for me on occasion.
I conclude it's mostly a pain in the ass to cook. He would brown it and then boil it for hours to soften it up.
Delicious, though.
posted by atchafalaya at 3:04 AM on August 29, 2017
I conclude it's mostly a pain in the ass to cook. He would brown it and then boil it for hours to soften it up.
Delicious, though.
posted by atchafalaya at 3:04 AM on August 29, 2017
>I've never even heard of automated crickets before
You'd know it if you heard them. They never miss a beat.
This is terrible! How can you tell when an Alien Presence has invaded the Old Woods then?!?
posted by GenjiandProust at 4:30 AM on August 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
You'd know it if you heard them. They never miss a beat.
This is terrible! How can you tell when an Alien Presence has invaded the Old Woods then?!?
posted by GenjiandProust at 4:30 AM on August 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
Turtle soup also features prominently in Babette's Feast:
"The meal consists of limpid turtle soup laced with Madeira, blinis Demidoff with caviar, quails en sarcophage (stuffed with foie gras and truffles in puff-pastry cases), a salad, cheeses, tropical fruits and a glistening baba au rhum, all accompanied by Champagne and fine wines."
posted by nonmerci at 10:44 AM on August 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
"The meal consists of limpid turtle soup laced with Madeira, blinis Demidoff with caviar, quails en sarcophage (stuffed with foie gras and truffles in puff-pastry cases), a salad, cheeses, tropical fruits and a glistening baba au rhum, all accompanied by Champagne and fine wines."
posted by nonmerci at 10:44 AM on August 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
quails en sarcophage
DR. LECTER DINNER PARTY!
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 11:26 AM on August 30, 2017
DR. LECTER DINNER PARTY!
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 11:26 AM on August 30, 2017
I always just figured "turtle" was rich person code for "human."
posted by bigbigdog at 6:36 PM on August 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by bigbigdog at 6:36 PM on August 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
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posted by thelonius at 7:10 AM on August 28, 2017 [7 favorites]