And I'll go into people's houses at night and wreck up the place!
September 4, 2017 10:57 AM   Subscribe

On Sunday, reports leaked of President Trump's plan to end DACA for hundreds of thousands of immigrants, with likely a six-month phase-in of the enforcement. Rebuking North Korea for their latest nuclear test, he also criticized South Korea for "appeasement" and on trade, and suggested he would cease trade with any country that continued to trade with the DPRK. Meanwhile, the Justice Department just admitted in court that Trump's much-disputed accusation that "Obama wiretapped Trump tower" was indeed false.
posted by darkstar (2467 comments total) 123 users marked this as a favorite
 
Thank you, thank you, once again, Darkstar.
posted by greermahoney at 11:05 AM on September 4, 2017 [27 favorites]


Welcome to the new thread. Same as the old thread.

Thanks darkstar. These threads are the only place where I can find people who share my anguish over the current state of the US government.
posted by bardophile at 11:05 AM on September 4, 2017 [42 favorites]


Splendid (and all too scarily apt) thread title, darkstar.
posted by FelliniBlank at 11:06 AM on September 4, 2017 [10 favorites]




odds that Trump wants to shut down DACA because he thinks its somehow related to ACA: not as low as you might expect
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 11:17 AM on September 4, 2017 [73 favorites]


FIRST LADY WEARING A HAT.
posted by Room 641-A at 11:18 AM on September 4, 2017 [61 favorites]


He is really outdoing himself in the trying-to-fuck-up-everything-at-once department.
posted by grumpybear69 at 11:18 AM on September 4, 2017 [4 favorites]




I have clicked 'add to activity' far too many times on threads to do with this git.
posted by lesbiassparrow at 11:28 AM on September 4, 2017 [24 favorites]


There are several states, including Texas, threatening to sue Trump to end DACA, so remember this isn't just the Donald, it's Republicans. They want to take children who were born here, went to school here, likely speak only English, who are American in every way, and shuttle them out to Mexico just to spite their face.
posted by xammerboy at 11:32 AM on September 4, 2017 [129 favorites]


They want to take children who were born here, went to school here, likely speak only English, who are American in every way, and shuttle them out to Mexico just to spite their face reduce the number of future democrats.
posted by hopeless romantique at 11:35 AM on September 4, 2017 [108 favorites]


Someone really needs to point out the irony to Texans asking for money for those who just lost their homes, family, and money to Harvey. They want to do the same thing thousands of children across the U.S.
posted by xammerboy at 11:35 AM on September 4, 2017 [37 favorites]


One of the worst things about our system of government, aside from relying on norms and trust, two things Republicans are incapable of even understanding, is that the majority of what are considered "regular citizens" rarely are affected by detrimental changes in the law immediately, whereas stuff that's "candy" is almost always immediate. (By the way, I think everyone is a regular citizen, I'm thinking here in terms of what our media portrays as "normal", you know, white, with some money, etc.)

For example, tax refunds are paid right away, while something like getting rid of people's health care is always enacted in such a way that it starts happening in earnest an election or two down the road. People aren't bright enough to understand that the reason their park closed or their grandma got kicked out of her retirement home is because the asshole they voted for ten years ago passed a law saying "fuck grandma"...they see who is in the white house and associate them with it.

It's a huge problem, one which makes it a lot easier for Republicans to get elected, despite their demonstrated inability to, you know, govern. Republicans are wreckers and Democrats rebuilders, while leaves precious little time for progress.
posted by maxwelton at 11:36 AM on September 4, 2017 [93 favorites]


He got into a "no, we'll nuke you harder!" argument with North Korea.
He needed a massive racist hatemonger rally that killed a woman and left others severely beaten to pull out of that narrative--and by "pull out," I mean it gave him another pit to dig.
Then the attention on that only shifted away because, with a catastrophic hurricane on the way, he pardoned a murderous bigoted sheriff from a slap on the wrist contempt of court charge and banned people from enlisting because of gender. Just gender.
And then the hurricane hit and it's astoundingly bad... and he found ways to be shitty about that, too.
And then North Korea made its nuke test, so he's like, "Fuck it, let's kick almost a million kids out of the country and shatter their dreams, 'cause why not?"

All that in less than a month.

There is no rock bottom here. None.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 11:39 AM on September 4, 2017 [121 favorites]


They want to take children who were born here,

Can I get a clarification? My understanding was that DACA covered children brought here under the age of 16. Does that really include those in the womb and born here? I thought children born in the US were citizens regardless of parentage, so DACA wouldn't apply.
posted by greermahoney at 11:39 AM on September 4, 2017 [27 favorites]


...Add to activity, you say? I wish I had known about that a Trillion Trump Years ago : /
posted by thebrokedown at 11:39 AM on September 4, 2017 [6 favorites]


Greermahoney, you are right. It applies to people younger than 15 when they were brought to the States, but not those born here. About a million people.
posted by xammerboy at 11:43 AM on September 4, 2017 [11 favorites]


> "Can I get a clarification? My understanding was that DACA covered children brought here under the age of 16."

The DACA status applies to those who were under 16 when they were brought over, but they don't stay 16 forever. Quite a few people covered under DACA now have kids of their own, kids who are natural-born citizens, kids who now have to fear that a parent who often doesn't even remember their birth country will be ripped away from them and sent back.
posted by mystyk at 11:44 AM on September 4, 2017 [53 favorites]


I wonder if this will boomerang on Trump like his healthcare plans did. I can imagine the videos of crying kids getting handcuffed and hauled away for nothing won't play out well.
posted by xammerboy at 11:46 AM on September 4, 2017 [7 favorites]


Vox has a good explainer on DACA.
posted by xammerboy at 11:47 AM on September 4, 2017 [11 favorites]


Harvard Political Review has a nice piece on politics here in the largest congressional district that isn't a state.
Since 1990, the district has switched hands three times, with both parties obtaining solid margins when elected. The politically-turbulent area mirrors the nation as a whole: just like the United States, the 2016 election caused the established political structure to implode. However, while national media focuses on insurgent candidates, there is another, more compelling force at work: an insurgent political revolution is changing the way politics is organized structurally.
...
As [the spokesperson] told the HPR, the founding members [of D3 Indivisible] were shocked when they held their first public meeting—in a town of 900 people, over 100 crammed into downtown Ridgway’s historic Sherbino Theatre. The group’s momentum has not slowed, and organizers were impressed by the level of talent that exists in their small community.
The times they are a changin - can we turn Colorado into a C of Blue ?
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 11:48 AM on September 4, 2017 [7 favorites]


The ACA-DACA connection was so that Obama could negotiate a deal with Australia about AC/DC.
posted by jonp72 at 11:49 AM on September 4, 2017 [16 favorites]


Someone really needs to point out the irony to Texans asking for money for those who just lost their homes, family, and money to Harvey. They want to do the same thing thousands of children across the U.S.

I've said it before, that makes perfect sense in their world. Assume as given:
1) It's a zero-sum game; what they get, WE can't get
2) There isn't enough for everyone
3) There is such a thing as a "real american"

It all follows from that. To the extent Texans can't get help, it's BECAUSE too much is being given to the undeserving. Classic divisive "fight over the scraps" mentality.
posted by ctmf at 11:51 AM on September 4, 2017 [32 favorites]


I have clicked 'add to activity' far too many times on threads to do with this git.

I'm adding you guys to activity. Who needs Trump?
posted by Namlit at 11:51 AM on September 4, 2017 [6 favorites]


Sorry if this is repeat. What if a DACA parent of a minor does get deported? They would deport the children with them, even though the kids are currently citizens?? That doesn't seem legal. The other option would seem to be that kids go into foster care? That seems like a huge expense to our government. Possibly a greater expense than letting the parents stay.
(I did read the Vox article, thanks.)
posted by greermahoney at 11:57 AM on September 4, 2017 [10 favorites]


I wonder if this will boomerang on Trump like his healthcare plans did. I can imagine the videos of crying kids getting handcuffed and hauled away for nothing won't play out well.

Counterpoints: the beating of Deandre Harris was recorded on video for everyone to see. We can't make out Heather Heyer in the crowd, but her murder is also on video.

Trump failed to seriously condemn these incidents. Plenty of people out there saw a barely-veiled free pass on the whole matter.

Do not, do not, do not ever underestimate people's capacity for bigotry and indifference. And do not underestimate the right wing's ability to sweep dirt under the rug when their followers are used to never looking there. Fox News isn't going to show video of crying children in handcuffs being deported.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 11:57 AM on September 4, 2017 [53 favorites]


Mefite Anguish Grows Accordingly

I agree with the sentiment. But I think we should really point out how the people "governing" our country are wicked, corrupt, cruel, spiteful, deceitful, and just plain old evil. I feel like we're really giving these moral monsters a pass by saying that they are stupid. It's almost an excuse. "Why did they do those terrible things?" "Oh, they're just too stupid to know any better." They are stupid. But they are also much, much worse than stupid. They are villains.
posted by Jonathan Livengood at 11:57 AM on September 4, 2017 [32 favorites]


I saw an interview with a DACA recipient who was in HS, so most likely under 18. I'm not sure of the legal status of her parents, but she has younger siblings that were born here. There are many families like hers. What does our Solomonian president think should happen to them? Send a minor to Mexico by herself? Leave the other minor siblings here while her parents go back with her? Split up the parents, assuming one isn't a citizen?

And are a handful of countries willing and prepared to accept a million people who have spent zero to little time in that country? Another kid interviewed came here from Mexico as an infant and has never been back. I don't even think he spoke Spanish.

I know there are no acceptable ways to justify this, but just logistically, how does anyone who supports this think it could possibly happen??
posted by Room 641-A at 11:58 AM on September 4, 2017 [14 favorites]


Carrying this over from previous thread...

Two stories about the Dem's need to drop the bullshit and fight back.

I have a conversation with a writer friend in the late 80's. We talk about how the Republican could maintain control over Presidency and houses. He mentions that the Republicans have a national grass roots fundraising network. If a pro-life supporter in California finds out about a pro-life congressman from Alabama needs money for the campaign, she immediately cuts him a check to support him. My friend doesn't need to convince me as I saw my mother constantly do this religiously as I was growing up. (She being the president of the county "Birthright", and influenced by Phyllis Schlafly, Human Events (the go-to to find congressmen and senators in trouble)and National Review. She and the members of her group supports "pro-life candidates" throughout the country. My friend believed that for Democrats this network was non-existent and donations were kept local

I believe that political beliefs, ideologies and responses remain generational. So there have been different variations of the same response, at minimum, since WW2 (If I use my mother and family as a barometer)

The second story may be apocryphal. A woman told me a story once about a male Texan being brought to trial for shooting and killing a man. He was prosecuted and the jury found him guilty. The judge Then let him off. When the local paper afterwards asked him why he did this the judge responded, "because the guy needed shooting"

Now, "on the surface" this may be an "Eastwood" way of solving the problem. What I heard in the context of the larger story was that sometimes you've got to punch the mother f*cker the face, without shame, take the risk and show some authority.
posted by goalyeehah at 12:00 PM on September 4, 2017 [8 favorites]


Remember: when 2018 rolls around and it comes time to vote in Democrats who might actually impeach him, search Metafilter for Potus45 to get all the debate fuel you need.
posted by JHarris at 12:00 PM on September 4, 2017 [17 favorites]


I can imagine the videos of crying kids getting handcuffed and hauled away for nothing won't play out well.

No, because givens 1-3 above act to assuage guilt in that case. They can be heartbroken and whatnot but still fall back on, "well, it's a tough situation, but you have to draw the line somewhere." Plus blame the victims ("they chose to come here illegally")
posted by ctmf at 12:05 PM on September 4, 2017 [8 favorites]


I think we should really point out how the people "governing" our country are wicked, corrupt, cruel, spiteful, deceitful, and just plain old evil.

Murder Americans? Go Ahead
posted by flabdablet at 12:06 PM on September 4, 2017


(Tehhund just liked a comment of mine from July. Tehhund is still with us, y'all, yay!)

Totally random observation that I'm sure will fuel someone's thesis soon: I'm back in the depressing world of online dating for the first time since Sept 2016... and it's fascinating how many profiles now explicitly call out #45 as a deal-breaker in a relationship. I mean, obviously I'm searching for like-minded people, but a year ago it would have been framed as "you have liberal/progressive values" and now it's literally stuff like, "if you voted for Trump or are even Republican do not message me."
posted by TwoStride at 12:10 PM on September 4, 2017 [170 favorites]


Monsters Are Governing America
posted by MrVisible at 12:10 PM on September 4, 2017 [56 favorites]


Someone really needs to point out the irony to Texans asking for money for those who just lost their homes, family, and money to Harvey. They want to do the same thing thousands of children across the U.S.

Just want to clarify that Texas is currently being run by extreme tea party ideologues who are very unpopular in almost every major city in the state. Those hit by the storm were mostly in Houston, a city that went about 60% for Clinton (and is also a minority white city with TONS of immigrants from all over.)

Moreover, there's a strong class of business people who support immigrants because they understand our entire economy is based on them. I keep waiting for the hard right people in power in this state to butt heads with the business class...

So in short, especially at this time, please be specific if you mean Texas GOP politicians rather than "Texans."
posted by threeturtles at 12:10 PM on September 4, 2017 [71 favorites]


No one is coming to save us.

We have to save each other.
posted by The Whelk at 12:12 PM on September 4, 2017 [110 favorites]


What if a DACA parent of a minor does get deported?

The parent is the only one who gets deported, but most parents aren't going to leave their kid to the foster system because they get to stay in America. This, I would argue, for many, is a feature, not a bug, because they are removing citizens who could vote along with non citizens who could not.
posted by corb at 12:14 PM on September 4, 2017 [33 favorites]


King Kong's too old to save us this time.
posted by darkstar at 12:14 PM on September 4, 2017 [2 favorites]


As I am fond of noting, even in deepest scarlet Oklahoma there were 420k people who voted for Hillary Clinton. At some point we will have them airlifted out if it becomes necessary.
posted by delfin at 12:15 PM on September 4, 2017 [30 favorites]


Middle-class white Americans think that middle-class white children are not responsible for their own decisions and need to be protected--and all other children, it is totally just and acceptable to treat them differently because they aren't really human, they're just the property of adults and it's acceptable to use that property to keep those adults in line. This is exactly why you get people who also don't believe in things like SNAP benefits increasing depending on how many children are in the household, because they don't see those programs as being about feeding kids, they see it as somehow "rewarding" parents for having more children. To those people, it genuinely doesn't matter that we're talking about people who were brought here as kids, and it doesn't matter if the children of those people are going to be hurt by this. If you don't have enough empathy to care about the kids, then the whole thing is about whether you are "rewarding" or "punishing" the first generation of undocumented arrivals for their choices. I mean, we're talking about exactly the same people in many cases who don't think schools should have free lunch programs. You can't appeal to their empathy for nonwhite children because they don't have any.
posted by Sequence at 12:16 PM on September 4, 2017 [80 favorites]


I saw an interview with a DACA recipient who was in HS, so most likely under 18. I'm not sure of the legal status of her parents, but she has younger siblings that were born here. There are many families like hers. What does our Solomonian president think should happen to them? Send a minor to Mexico by herself? Leave the other minor siblings here while her parents go back with her? Split up the parents, assuming one isn't a citizen?

And are a handful of countries willing and prepared to accept a million people who have spent zero to little time in that country? Another kid interviewed came here from Mexico as an infant and has never been back. I don't even think he spoke Spanish.

I know there are no acceptable ways to justify this, but just logistically, how does anyone who supports this think it could possibly happen??


So, from what I've been reading, this splitting up of families has already been going on. Yes, sometimes children are left behind in the US with either the primary or sole breadwinner parent deported, or with both of their parents deported. Mostly ICE seems to assume that other relatives in the US will take care of the kids in these cases, but sometimes the kids end up in the foster system. Sometimes children are deported and just sort of dropped off across the border in Mexico (eg. in the case of unaccompanied minors caught entering the US illegally). It's a pretty big human rights problem, all around.
posted by eviemath at 12:16 PM on September 4, 2017 [30 favorites]


Threeturtles: Just want to clarify that Texas is currently being run by extreme tea party ideologues who are very unpopular in almost every major city in the state. Those hit by the storm were mostly in Houston, a city that went about 60% for Clinton (and is also a minority white city with TONS of immigrants from all over.)

Delfin: As I am fond of noting, even in deepest scarlet Oklahoma there were 420k people who voted for Hillary Clinton.

And this is why Democrats must not give up on "flyover country" or "red states." There are Democrats everywhere. It's also why getting out the vote and participating in local and state elections is so important.

Republicans would not need to gerrymander and suppress voters if they were confident that the majority of the people supported them.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 12:21 PM on September 4, 2017 [45 favorites]


"My struggle"...
posted by growabrain at 12:24 PM on September 4, 2017 [2 favorites]


Good. Starve 'em out. Loving Trump will not get you laid, not by anyone good.

I'm gonna go on Tinder with a picture of me wearing a Hillary 2016 shirt. Will report results.
posted by Justinian at 12:25 PM on September 4, 2017 [88 favorites]


*Awaits update on the Justinian Current Swiping Level*
posted by zachlipton at 12:27 PM on September 4, 2017 [111 favorites]


If anything, Democrats should move en masse TO red states to turn them blue and rescue the hostages. Start with the rural counties with disproportionate representation. Careful not to let the blue states go red while we're gone.

Sigh. Wish it were that easy.
posted by ctmf at 12:30 PM on September 4, 2017 [20 favorites]


EPA releases lengthy statement/rant attacking AP journalist who reported on flooding at 7 of the 41 Houston Superfund sites.

EPA statement falsely accuses him of reporting "from the comforts of Washington" when the reporter had personally visited each site.

Reporter noted an Obama-era study that showed flooding at the sites could release toxic chemicals into the groundwater, which seems to be what set off the EPA / Pruitt. Not sure I've ever seen the EPA ever go after a reporter like this for reporting basic facts.
posted by darkstar at 12:30 PM on September 4, 2017 [144 favorites]


"My struggle"...
He's never really struggled at anything in his life; a more appropriate title would be "Mein Komfort Level".
posted by oneswellfoop at 12:31 PM on September 4, 2017 [36 favorites]


I'm gonna go on Tinder with a picture of me wearing a Hillary 2016 shirt.

I wonder if that's an angle campaigns have actually thought of. Hot models on all the sites saying Republicans are gross and unfuckable per se.
posted by ctmf at 12:33 PM on September 4, 2017 [27 favorites]


If anything, Democrats should move en masse TO red states to turn them blue and rescue the hostages. Start with the rural counties with disproportionate representation. Careful not to let the blue states go red while we're gone.


It would be interesting to mathematically model the intersection of possible retirement destinations for urban boomers and the closeness of political tipping points achievable by x numbers moving here or there specifically, and then lay that out against cost of living figures, retirement amenities in these areas, etc.
posted by spitbull at 12:38 PM on September 4, 2017 [17 favorites]


One of the worst things about our system of government, aside from relying on norms and trust,

Ach, sorry, but I have to say this: all systems do rely on norms and trust, not just ours; it's not possible to have that kind of epistemic closure in real life, period. But in America the norms and trust have been deliberately interfered with and broken with help from hostile foreign intelligence services, mobsters, and corrupt foreign and domestic oligarchs.
posted by saulgoodman at 12:38 PM on September 4, 2017 [15 favorites]


Hot models on all the sites saying Republicans are gross and unfuckable per se.

That would be an error, just like "basket of deplorables" was.
posted by Coventry at 12:40 PM on September 4, 2017 [6 favorites]


Now I'm trying to come up with a business model for "Retire2Vote4Change.org."
posted by spitbull at 12:41 PM on September 4, 2017 [10 favorites]


I wonder if that's an angle campaigns have actually thought of. Hot models on all the sites saying Republicans are gross and unfuckable per se.

The Summer of Love exhibit at the De Young had the iconic Girls Say Yes To Boys Who Say No poster on display.

I would be all for a less sexist way of putting that across - "Nazis are Undateable," "Fascist Means Forever Celibate," "Don't Get Your Cheeto Dust On Me! Democrats Only!" - I'm not a copywriter, alas.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 12:43 PM on September 4, 2017 [19 favorites]


They already know they're unfuckable. See /r/redpill.
posted by spitbull at 12:44 PM on September 4, 2017 [95 favorites]


If anything, Democrats should move en masse TO red states to turn them blue and rescue the hostages.

I'm in a very very blue area of California, and I've been seriously considering moving to Nevada.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 12:45 PM on September 4, 2017 [8 favorites]


"Lonely? I did not Nazi that coming."
posted by chris24 at 12:45 PM on September 4, 2017 [28 favorites]


Billy Joel could write a new verse for "We Didn't Start The Fire" every week with this administration if he wanted to.
posted by azpenguin at 12:46 PM on September 4, 2017 [35 favorites]


See /r/redpill.

Red Genocide!
posted by ctmf at 12:47 PM on September 4, 2017 [1 favorite]


It would be interesting to mathematically model the intersection of possible retirement destinations for urban boomers and the closeness of political tipping points achievable by x numbers moving here or there specifically, and then lay that out against cost of living figures, retirement amenities in these areas, etc.

Maybe pitch this to FiveThirtyEight? Most of the work involved would be tracking down the relevant data.
posted by eviemath at 12:59 PM on September 4, 2017 [15 favorites]


EPA statement falsely accuses him of reporting "from the comforts of Washington" when the reporter had personally visited each site.
Pruitt is apparently competing with Neil Gorsuch's mother for "Worst EPA Administrator of all Time."
posted by xyzzy at 1:01 PM on September 4, 2017 [11 favorites]


The times they are a changin - can we turn Colorado into a C of Blue ?

You might even say

*removes sunglasses*

It's a C change.

Hot models on all the sites saying Republicans are gross and unfuckable per se

Great, so there will just be more of those people swiping on the rest of us.
posted by Room 641-A at 1:25 PM on September 4, 2017


I'm in a very very blue area of California, and I've been seriously considering moving to Nevada.

Very blue Californian, have a job I can do from anywhere, thinking of taking one for the team and moving to Arizona. This breaks my heart. I love it here.
posted by greermahoney at 1:49 PM on September 4, 2017 [11 favorites]


Okay, I'll go the full Godwin on this post.... Hitler knew he was losing the war, but diverted resources towards ripping the country up, and causing more chaos, over trying not to lose.

That is why we need to remove Trump, sooner rather than later. He doesn't share our values, and actively wants to tear them down.
posted by MikeWarot at 1:53 PM on September 4, 2017 [37 favorites]


We need a graphic that can be easily drawn or spray painted. This graphic symbol to express a desire for the current tyrant to be not in a position of power.
posted by JohnR at 1:54 PM on September 4, 2017 [6 favorites]


WRT Godwin: I think it's fine to mention nazis if you're actually and purposely talking about nazis.
posted by Too-Ticky at 1:57 PM on September 4, 2017 [26 favorites]


Republicans are gross and unfuckable

Finally, a political ad that tells the truth!
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 2:01 PM on September 4, 2017 [6 favorites]


WRT Godwin: I think it's fine to mention nazis if you're actually and purposely talking about nazis.

I think it is the one law this administration has successfully Repealed And Replaced.
posted by Jon Mitchell at 2:04 PM on September 4, 2017 [44 favorites]


WRT Godwin: I think it's fine to mention nazis if you're actually and purposely talking about nazis.

From the man himself: By all means, compare these shitheads to Nazis. Again and again. I'm with you.
posted by MrVisible at 2:06 PM on September 4, 2017 [80 favorites]


The reverse Godwin strikes again.
posted by stonepharisee at 2:30 PM on September 4, 2017


There is apparently a planned SAVE DACA shut down midtown rally from 10-10 at Trump Tower tomorrow (Tuesday)
posted by The Whelk at 2:34 PM on September 4, 2017 [15 favorites]


Please keep in mind that Godwin himself has given his nihil obstat to calling the fuckwits in question nazis.
posted by signal at 2:36 PM on September 4, 2017 [6 favorites]


Yes, I recall reading that somewhere very recently...
posted by a box and a stick and a string and a bear at 2:45 PM on September 4, 2017 [19 favorites]


From What Trump and His Team Have Wrecked So Far on BillMoyers.com
If You Still Want More

You can peruse our full “While He Was Tweeting” series but we also recommend some additional places that are keeping a close eye on all the changes afoot. The Washington Post maintains a great graphic explainer of Obama-era rollbacks. For a catalog from abroad try The BBC’s “Trump Tracker” and The Guardian’s excellent compilation of Trump’s effect on the environment. And, The Sunlight Foundation is keeping track of suspected conflicts of interest within the administration.
posted by ZeusHumms at 2:46 PM on September 4, 2017 [44 favorites]




Helaine Olen - Nation Magazine via BillMoyers.com: The Rollback of Pro-Worker Policies Since Trump Took Office Is Staggering
A few months ago, President Donald Trump devoted his weekly address to the beleaguered American employee. “For too long, American workers were forgotten by their government — and I mean totally forgotten,” he said. “My administration has offered a new vision. The well-being of the American citizen and worker will be placed second to none.”

No doubt he’ll come up with more pro-worker blather for Labor Day. Don’t listen. The only way Trump is helping the average employee is if you consider The Simpsons’ Mr. Burns a working stiff.

The rollback of labor rights and protections since Trump took office is staggering. It puts worker safety at risk and guarantees that many workers will earn less, but that’s not all. Measures to help victims of discrimination receive redress are on the scrap heap. Unions are running scared. “It’s a death by a thousand cuts,” explains Heidi Shierholz, a senior economist at the Economic Policy Institute.
posted by ZeusHumms at 2:52 PM on September 4, 2017 [21 favorites]


However, it's also true that some non-zero number of people who advocate against DACA also object to the citizenship provisions of the 14th amendment and want to see, yes, children born in the United States deported

The most prominent person being Trump himself (during the campaign, anyway)
posted by BungaDunga at 2:58 PM on September 4, 2017 [2 favorites]


A little late to the party, but here's another good backgrounder on DACA, thanks to the Federation of American Scientists, which collects and posts Congressional Research Service reports that are normally confidential and inaccessible to the public for no good reason.

Slightly off-topic note that there are tons of good reports available here, with an emphasis on national security, something else we're all a bit concerned about right now.
posted by martin q blank at 2:58 PM on September 4, 2017 [8 favorites]


We need a graphic that can be easily drawn or spray painted. This graphic symbol to express a desire for the current tyrant to be not in a position of power.

OK

posted by acrasis at 2:59 PM on September 4, 2017 [4 favorites]


Very blue Californian, have a job I can do from anywhere, thinking of taking one for the team and moving to Arizona. This breaks my heart. I love it here.

Y'all know the difference between moving and establishing/maintaining legal residency, right? Come on over to Michigan* every 2 years just long enough to canvass and vote. The fall color is lovely!

*Certain tippable parts of Michigan, that is.
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:59 PM on September 4, 2017 [8 favorites]


Y'all know the difference between moving and establishing/maintaining legal residency, right?

Er...no. But I'm gonna look it up right now. THANKS!
posted by greermahoney at 3:03 PM on September 4, 2017 [6 favorites]


It would be interesting to mathematically model the intersection of possible retirement destinations for urban boomers and the closeness of political tipping points

Or even, how many would have to move from gerrymandered deep blue precincts into pink ones to flip the whole state?
posted by ctmf at 3:04 PM on September 4, 2017 [5 favorites]


Ed Pilkington/Guardian: Rightwing alliance plots assault to 'defund and defang' America's unions
Rightwing activists across the US have launched a nationwide campaign to undermine progressive politicians by depriving them of a major source of support and funding – public sector unions. ... The aim is to “defund and defang” unions representing government employees as the first step towards ensuring the permanent collapse of progressive politics.
...
The new assault is being spearheaded by the State Policy Network (SPN), an alliance of 66 state-based thinktanks, or “ideas factories” as it calls them, with a combined annual budget of $80m. As suggested by its slogan – “State solutions. National impact” – the group outlines an aim to construct a rightwing hegemony throughout the US, working from the bottom up.
posted by ZeusHumms at 3:05 PM on September 4, 2017 [18 favorites]


Or even, how many would have to move from gerrymandered deep blue precincts into neighboring pink ones to flip the whole state?

That works for people in red states as well. Move from deep red districts where you can do no good to areas that can be tipped blue.
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:09 PM on September 4, 2017 [5 favorites]



I think we should really point out how the people "governing" our country are wicked, corrupt, cruel, spiteful, deceitful, and just plain old evil.

Murder Americans? Go Ahead


No, please. I am an American and not evil.
posted by Samizdata at 3:13 PM on September 4, 2017 [2 favorites]


A better plan might be strong coalition-building to energize people who don't normally vote who are the bulk of people.
posted by The Whelk at 3:17 PM on September 4, 2017 [36 favorites]


I wonder what this tone-deaf solipsist may say if his precious Mar-a-Lago gets damage from Irma. I can imagine him trying "I feel your pain" talking to people who may have lost everything and it makes me absolutely nauseated. But I fully expect it should the situation arise. Nothing is too self-centered or puerile to put past him.
posted by thebrokedown at 3:23 PM on September 4, 2017 [3 favorites]


Move from deep red districts where you can do no good to areas that can be tipped blue.

If you can't move, register as a Republican and ratfuck the hell out of their primaries. Make it cost incumbents every cent they have, or keep the absolute crazies from gaining another seat. Even if you can't stem the crazy tide, show up at events and ask really uncomfortable questions in order to attenuate their more extreme positions, just to discourage budding brownshirt voters. Then, vote blue in the elections. If you actually have democrats running, though, you still have a fighting chance.

We can't all just move to a safe space. Really, there are no safe spaces - if they keep the statehouses and governments, which gives them national races, eventually they're going to come for the blue strongholds.
posted by eclectist at 3:29 PM on September 4, 2017 [19 favorites]


A better plan might be strong coalition-building to energize people who don't normally vote who are the bulk of people.

A "better plan" would be "try the same thing and hope it works better this time"?

I mean, I get it's mostly-hypothetical, not a realistic plan. It's not as easy to "just move" as it sounds. There is usually a reason people live where they live. I meant the original thought experiment more as a counter to the people who half-jokingly (or even completely seriously) say "the people in those backward, woman-hating racist places should JUST LEAVE!!" Well, if moving is so easy, it would be more effective (if not more practical) to flood it with people who will fix it.
posted by ctmf at 3:30 PM on September 4, 2017 [9 favorites]


Who can sue Trump?

I'm not talking about DACA or other groups he has trashed through shear evil behavior. I'm referring to illegal activity during the election. Note: I'm assuming that there will be enough evidence revealed to make a civil action feasible.
  • Who would have standing?
  • What laws would be applicable?
  • What people and organizations would be the targets of lawsuits?
Could Hillary Clinton and her election committee sue Trump and his election committee? Could the Democratic Party sue the Republican Party? Could the RNC sue Trump in an attempt to distance themselves from him? Could there be a class action lawsuit on the behalf of every person who voted for Clinton in the election?

This relates to the cooperation between Mueller and New York AG Eric Schneiderman over the Manafort investigation. No matter what Trump does with executive pardons, Manafort can be charged in a state court. Civil actions are different then criminal actions, so this might be the only way that Trump and his toadies could be forced to testify and be cross examined.

Obviously civil suits would be about much more then the money. But speaking of economic consequences, Trump's entire fortune could be at risk. Over 65 million people voted for Hillary. Although it is almost impossible to assign a dollar value to a vote, I would assume it has to be more the one dollar. If it was $10 we're taking about $650 million, and it it's $100 it jumps to $6.5 billion. This is somewhat of a far fetched scenario, but there could be so many parties going after Trump he could be swamped in the civil courts.

Is this just a revenge fantasy, or is there some credible legal principle that could apply? Inquiring MeFi minds want to know!
posted by Metacircular at 3:30 PM on September 4, 2017 [9 favorites]


A better plan might be strong coalition-building to energize people who don't normally vote who are the bulk of people.

Can't we just go back in time and steal Trump's mojo?
posted by Coventry at 3:32 PM on September 4, 2017 [5 favorites]


The Republican Party has destroyed the word of the US Government both domestically and international.
posted by srboisvert at 3:32 PM on September 4, 2017 [19 favorites]


Ed Pilkington/Guardian: Rightwing alliance plots assault to 'defund and defang' America's unions

See also, Meet the Anti-Union Crusader in Charge of Rolling Back Regulations at Trump’s Labor Department:
Nathan Mehrens became the department’s head of policy in June, leading an office that Sharon Block, who headed it under President Barack Obama, says served as the Labor Department’s think tank. Bloomberg reported last month that Mehrens is also running the department’s regulatory reform office. In that role, he will work with a still-unformed task force to identify regulations that should be eliminated. (The Labor Department did not respond to requests to confirm Mehrens’ role.)

Since getting his law degree from a conservative Christian correspondence school that emphasizes “the centrality of Scripture,” Mehrens has spent his professional life rooting out union corruption. That work appears to have begun with a stint at Stop Union Political Abuse (SUPA), a now-defunct group started by Linda Chavez after unions helped sink her nomination to be President George W. Bush’s secretary of labor. Chavez would go on to write that donating to SUPA would “cripple liberal politics” by helping pass a right-to-work law that makes it harder to form a union. “If we stop now,” she added in the fundraising appeal, “the terrorists win.”
But it's not all bad news on Labor Day, Republicans suddenly seem to like unions again:
Unions are enjoying a popularity surge, with more than 61 percent of adults in the United States saying they now approve of organized labor — a five-point jump from last year, according to a new Gallup poll. That’s the highest approval rating since 2003, when 65 percent of respondents said the same, but it comes as union membership is falling.
...
Forty-two percent of Republicans said they approved of unions, a jump from 2011, when only 26 percent of Republicans showed support.
posted by peeedro at 3:36 PM on September 4, 2017 [21 favorites]


If anything, Democrats should move en masse TO red states to turn them blue and rescue the hostages. Start with the rural counties with disproportionate representation.

Fellow MeFi and spouse rc3spencer and I are doing just that in 2018. Moving from bluer-than-blue Baltimore to red Frederick County, Virginia. Doing our part to continue growing the progressive voter base in the state, two votes at a time.

Our new house is just off Jubal Early Drive. Sigh.
posted by ImproviseOrDie at 3:44 PM on September 4, 2017 [57 favorites]


A better plan might be strong coalition-building to energize people who don't normally vote who are the bulk of people.

If Trump doesn't motivate them to vote in 2018 and 2020 I'm not sure anything will do so. What could one possibly say to reach such people?
posted by Justinian at 3:47 PM on September 4, 2017 [15 favorites]


Rightwing alliance plots assault to 'defund and defang' America's unions

It's been in progress since 1980, when Reagan broke the air traffic controllers union. And everyone except the rich has lost ground financially since then. Also, the economy has struggled since 95% of the population has less spending money, which -- surprise! -- hurts sales.
posted by msalt at 3:52 PM on September 4, 2017 [20 favorites]


A better plan might be strong coalition-building to energize people who don't normally vote who are the bulk of people.

But even that has to be done strategically and efficiently where it can make a difference. I'm all for the 50 State Strategy, but the last time my particular district went blue for Congress was two years in the 1930s, and the time before that was two years in the 1880s. Not for lack of trying, either. Even the univ faculty are scarily purple. If you energize the disaffected voter here, you get a tea party on the trump train.
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:54 PM on September 4, 2017 [2 favorites]


...political tipping points achievable by x numbers moving here or there ...

Maybe pitch this to FiveThirtyEight?

Turn it into an app and I'm sure he'll get $10M funding in no time. I'm verrit, verrit sure of this.
posted by dhartung at 3:55 PM on September 4, 2017 [4 favorites]



If Trump doesn't motivate them to vote in 2018 and 2020 I'm not sure anything will do so. What could one possibly say to reach such people?

In the face of republican intransigence with regards to voting it's important to help people navigate and overcome those obstacles. This was key in the 50s and 60s and is necessary now.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 3:56 PM on September 4, 2017 [12 favorites]


Our new house is just off Jubal Early Drive.

This is a sign that needs to be vandalized
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:01 PM on September 4, 2017 [9 favorites]


My proposal was specific to the growing wave of retiring boomers. That's a number that scales, at a point when many middle class Americans do move, often to more red states or red counties in blue states in search of lower costs and warmer weather. It's already changing North Carolina for example. If liberals move in large numbers at retirement from cities to suburbs or north to south, I'm suggesting modeling where one goes based on potential impact as a factor.

I am curious about the math on a per district basis, not sure at what scale it might have an impact. Pure speculation.
posted by spitbull at 4:05 PM on September 4, 2017 [6 favorites]


Our new house is just off Jubal Early Drive.

Just recapitulate the name as the character very ably played by Robert Brooks in Firefly's Objects In Space.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 4:08 PM on September 4, 2017 [16 favorites]


Also depressingly the answers are probably suburban districts in Florida and Arizona. Which nope.
posted by spitbull at 4:09 PM on September 4, 2017 [3 favorites]




Let me repeat what I've said before: the top priorities for Democratic Party and non-party Liberal/Leftist organizations MUST be to turn non-voters into voters with 'bulletproof' registration status and help them to cast their ballots perfectly. Any other expenditure of money and/or effort is relatively trivial.
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:10 PM on September 4, 2017 [28 favorites]


Flipping Florida to be somewhat reliably blue would be huge, but it doesn't help if we write off PA, MI, WI.
posted by Justinian at 4:13 PM on September 4, 2017 [5 favorites]


So this is a fun article for some light reading: HuffPost, The Purge of Transgender People From American Life Has Begun. The last paragraph is especially chilling.
In October of 1938, the Reich Ministry of the Interior invalidated all passports held by Jews, and required that they be surrendered. If the US State Department revokes the passports of people who have changed their gender markers and demands that they be surrendered, it’s a sign that the government doesn’t want transgender people to escape what happens next.
The last few words may be a bit hyperbolic as of yet, but the revocation - or at least the denial of new passports or changes - is absolutely possible, as I understand it, and the military ban makes it all the more probable. We exist at the grace and mercy of the State Department and the Social Security Administration. Legal gender and name changes are all in a database somewhere. If ruining the lives of innocent DREAMers is acceptable, why not sinful, perverted, yucky trans people?
posted by AFABulous at 4:13 PM on September 4, 2017 [75 favorites]


honestly at this point i think trump could grow a toothbrush mustache, start wearing jackboots, and goosestep down pennsylvania avenue and some people would still be "i don't know about these hitler comparisons" and "but the antifa"
posted by entropicamericana at 4:43 PM on September 4, 2017 [74 favorites]


WaPo: EPA now requires political aide’s sign-off for agency awards, grant applications

"Earlier this summer, on the same day that Sen. Lisa Murkowski of Alaska joined with two other Republicans in voting down a GOP health-care bill to repeal the Affordable Care Act, EPA staffers were instructed without any explanation to halt all grants to the regional office that covers Alaska, Washington, Oregon and Idaho. That hold was quickly narrowed just to Alaska and remained in place for nearly two weeks."

This is totally normal. Everyone move along.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 4:47 PM on September 4, 2017 [78 favorites]


Almost a two full weeks until the Clown Car of Collusion forgot what they were doing. That has to be some kind of record.
posted by Slap*Happy at 5:10 PM on September 4, 2017 [1 favorite]


Megan Amram at the New Yorker found Jared Kushner's Harvard admissions essay and it's surprisingly good.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 5:12 PM on September 4, 2017 [7 favorites]


President Shitty McGee just threw out some red meat to his disgusting "base" today for Labor Day, the day after announcing his plans to scrap DACA. I typically think he is too stupid to use allusions, but this choice of words cannot be a mistake:

We are building our future with American hands, American labor, American iron, aluminum and steel. Happy #LaborDay!
posted by dhens at 5:21 PM on September 4, 2017


Says the guy who didn't buy American steel for his needs.
posted by Archelaus at 5:23 PM on September 4, 2017 [35 favorites]


What a piece of shit.
posted by kittensofthenight at 5:27 PM on September 4, 2017 [16 favorites]


Megan Amram at the New Yorker found Jared Kushner's Harvard admissions essay and it's surprisingly good.

[fake]
posted by Coventry at 5:31 PM on September 4, 2017 [5 favorites]


Megan Amram is Harvard College class of 2010.
posted by AwkwardPause at 5:35 PM on September 4, 2017


A better plan might be strong coalition-building to energize people who don't normally vote who are the bulk of people.

If Trump doesn't motivate them to vote in 2018 and 2020 I'm not sure anything will do so. What could one possibly say to reach such people?


"Hi, here's a good and decent presidential option."
posted by Samizdata at 5:39 PM on September 4, 2017 [4 favorites]


I thought we had that last time.
posted by ryanrs at 6:01 PM on September 4, 2017 [39 favorites]


"Hi, here's a good and decent presidential option."

Amen, we need a good candidate for a change. Someone who understands working class values, perhaps someone who even knows carpentry and welding? ;-)
posted by MikeWarot at 6:02 PM on September 4, 2017


The DSA is planned to arrive at Trump Tower for DEFEND DACA at 5:30, Look for the red.

Related far left news : The Guardian looks at the rise of Socialism in the US and they mention having to appeal to both Trump voters and nonvoters
posted by The Whelk at 6:05 PM on September 4, 2017 [10 favorites]


carpenter, you say?
posted by entropicamericana at 6:05 PM on September 4, 2017 [1 favorite]


"Hi, here's a good and decent presidential option."

That's worked once in 20 years. Twice if you count both Obama terms.
posted by Justinian at 6:06 PM on September 4, 2017 [12 favorites]


I don't know. I sort of like the old sci fi story. Since the idea is no one would want all the responsibility and still be fully sane, there's a giant computer that keeps track of everyone, and, once every election, it picks the best candidate. The government shows up at their door and says "Hi, you're the new president. Come with us."
posted by Samizdata at 6:12 PM on September 4, 2017 [12 favorites]




"If you voted for Trump or are even Republican do not message me."

Yep, I'm one of those, except mine reads, "If you voted for Trump, 1) swipe left; 2) go fuck yourself." I didn't notice any significant drop in my number of matches, which I found encouraging.
posted by holborne at 6:16 PM on September 4, 2017 [10 favorites]


Sessions will hold a briefing on DACA at 11am Eastern tomorrow. Then he'll leave without taking questions, because he's an asshole.
posted by zachlipton at 6:21 PM on September 4, 2017 [17 favorites]


"If you voted for Trump or are even Republican do not message me."

My profile said for awhile "If you voted for the candidate who thinks it's ok to grab pussies without consent, you're not getting anywhere near mine."
posted by mcduff at 6:23 PM on September 4, 2017 [47 favorites]


The giant computer could even be no more than a random number generator. Consider the representative democracy that would result. In such a lottocracy the winners could all get a million dollars to encourage people signing up and the losers have to serve in public office for a term. As in our current system I'd expect the staff of the various offices would do all the work anyway, but a real cross section of public opinion would call the shots, without the circus of elections.

I kid.

Mostly.
posted by Captain Shenanigan at 6:25 PM on September 4, 2017 [1 favorite]




We have reached peak crazification factor.

@Mikel_Jollett
Americans "proud" Trump is the President: 26%
Americans who support mass deportation: 26%
Americans who think the Sun orbits the Earth: 26%

- For the record, these numbers are real: Poll: Nearly two thirds of Americans support DACA while 60 percent oppose Arpaio pardon

- I'm completely not kidding about this 26% figure: 1 In 4 Americans Thinks The Sun Goes Around The Earth, Survey Says
posted by chris24 at 6:26 PM on September 4, 2017 [85 favorites]


I just hope all three are the same 26%.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:34 PM on September 4, 2017 [67 favorites]




There's some sort of movie to be made about a vengeful female character who makes a pro-Trump profile and then is awful to every one of her gentleman callers. That's how angry I am at Trump voters: I wish an exaggerated version of my twenty-something self upon them.
posted by angrycat at 6:36 PM on September 4, 2017 [29 favorites]


Of course enabling people to vote is equally important as getting them to vote, a modern VRA would include holidays for voting, vastly expanded voting by mail, radical renfransicement, good neighbor initiatives like bussing people to stations and automatic registration in all states. And an absolute take town of any voter ID laws.

Plus tackling gerrymandering in the next census. That's vital.
posted by The Whelk at 6:41 PM on September 4, 2017 [17 favorites]


Sessions will hold a briefing on DACA at 11am Eastern tomorrow.

Trump can't even stand up and announce what he's doing to 800k kids. What a fucking piece of shit coward.
posted by chris24 at 6:54 PM on September 4, 2017 [70 favorites]


Sessions will hold a briefing on DACA at 11am Eastern tomorrow.

Trump can't even stand up and announce what he's doing to 800k kids. What a fucking piece of shit coward.


Hey, now, he's too busy doing President stuff. You have to prioritize and delegate the unimportant stuff to subordinates.
posted by Samizdata at 7:07 PM on September 4, 2017 [1 favorite]


Early-in-discussion encouragement to fire up ResistBot and fax your congresspersons about DACA. I encouraged mine to block everything including the DC vote until DACA is made law by both houses.
posted by Joey Michaels at 7:13 PM on September 4, 2017 [2 favorites]


@mattyglesias:
Whatever you think of him, Trump's a great showman and it's telling that he doesn't want to star in the DACA episode of the Trump Show.
posted by chris24 at 7:20 PM on September 4, 2017 [28 favorites]


We have reached peak crazification factor.

Elected Republicans willing to go on record against the 26% = 0. Total.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:22 PM on September 4, 2017 [29 favorites]


Because crazy votes.
posted by Joey Michaels at 7:30 PM on September 4, 2017 [5 favorites]


"Hi, here's a good and decent presidential option."

That's worked once in 20 years. Twice if you count both Obama terms.


I wouldn't count Obama. He won as "change" and "Not Bush" after Bush crashed the economy, then as "give me more time for change". He didn't ever win as "I'm the guy that's going to keep the lights on and do everything exactly the same", which is what America heard from the Clinton campaign.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:31 PM on September 4, 2017 [6 favorites]


"Billy Joel could write a new verse for "We Didn't Start The Fire" every week with this administration if he wanted to."
I'm content to sit back and wait for some future early-era-TMBG-style group to do a song wherein a confused person recites how Texas was smothered by an invisible 6'3" rabbit…
posted by Pinback at 7:36 PM on September 4, 2017 [9 favorites]


Trump can't even stand up and announce what he's doing to 800k kids. What a fucking piece of shit coward.

Oh, but Sessions will love doing it. Just his kind of fun.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:37 PM on September 4, 2017 [8 favorites]


Trump does this thing like he's giving a response at a news conference and wants to end discussion beyond what he just said:

I will be meeting General Kelly, General Mattis and other military leaders at the White House to discuss North Korea. Thank you. (September 3)
and
I will be having a general news conference on JANUARY ELEVENTH in N.Y.C. Thank you. (January 3, after weeks of controversy about not holding a news conference up til this point)
posted by Theiform at 7:40 PM on September 4, 2017 [5 favorites]


"We need a graphic that can be easily drawn or spray painted. This graphic symbol to express a desire for the current tyrant to be not in a position of power."

A hand giving the finger (in the shape of Trump Tower), negated inside an Ø…
posted by Pinback at 7:41 PM on September 4, 2017 [2 favorites]


Donny's all excited to fuck over 800k kids to please his racist base. What a fucking asshole.

@realDonaldTrump:
Big week coming up!
posted by chris24 at 7:55 PM on September 4, 2017 [9 favorites]


Just recapitulate the name as the character very ably played by Robert Richard Brooks in Firefly's Objects In Space.

Does that seem right to you?
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:56 PM on September 4, 2017 [13 favorites]


it's telling that [Trump] doesn't want to star in the DACA episode of the Trump Show.

It doesn't activate for six months. The narrative can be "Trump wanted Congress to pass a law about them, rather than having to rely on the extra-legal Executive Order that Obama decreed." The Republicans can stymie any such law by tacking unacceptable conditions to it and blaming the impassé on the Democrats, thereby making the Democrats unpopular with their base. So Trump gets to sign a piece of paper and look important; his base can get all jizzed up about deporting immigrants; and he gets to blame a debacle on someone else. Whatever happens, there's a narrative that makes Trump look good.
posted by Joe in Australia at 8:08 PM on September 4, 2017 [7 favorites]


I'd actually never heard the name outside the context of the Firefly episode until the POTUS45 threads.
posted by Archelaus at 8:11 PM on September 4, 2017 [6 favorites]


@realDonaldTrump: Big week coming up!

Another Cat 4 hurricane is headed inland Don... maybe Mother Nature is trying to tell you something?
posted by Marky at 8:15 PM on September 4, 2017 [4 favorites]


Same, Archelaus.
posted by greermahoney at 8:20 PM on September 4, 2017




Another Cat 4 hurricane is headed inland

Is it clear that Irma is going to hit CONUS yet, or that it will be powerful if it does? I thought that this video gives a good overview of the likely scenarios given current information, but it might already be out of date.
posted by Coventry at 8:24 PM on September 4, 2017


It is likely though not certain that it will hit CONUS. Discussion is sorta going on over in the Harvey thread 'cause of course this year is bringing us one shit sandwich after another.
posted by Justinian at 8:27 PM on September 4, 2017


ok this new excerpt from HRC's book is CRACKING ME UP so I share it with you [fake]

I had to expend a lot of willpower today to stop myself form sharing the excerpts I saw on Twitter, both to this board and my Facebook. It left me very torn between "OMG THIS" and "don't relitigate the primaries." But so far I'm not sure how we can discuss what has dropped without violating the primaries rule here (which, let's face it, is a very reasonable and necessary rule at this point).
posted by scaryblackdeath at 8:28 PM on September 4, 2017 [6 favorites]


There's some sort of movie to be made about a vengeful female character who makes a pro-Trump profile and then is awful to every one of her gentleman callers.

Some sort of movie, or... some kind of Twitter account, maybe?
posted by Room 641-A at 8:37 PM on September 4, 2017


Clinton's book is about the last thing I care about or relevant to the future of the Democratic party, if we could have that conversation approximately never and just pretend she's still in the forest, that'd be fantastic.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:37 PM on September 4, 2017 [6 favorites]


Mod note: Please let's skip the millionth rehash of what thread regulars think of Clinton and the pros and cons of her campaign.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 8:42 PM on September 4, 2017 [33 favorites]


We need a graphic that can be easily drawn or spray painted. This graphic symbol to express a desire for the current tyrant to be not in a position of power.

Two glyphs:
In the first a giant wolf towers over tiny people. The wolf is happy.
In the second the severed head of the (now normal size) wolf dangles from a person's hand. The wolf is dead.
posted by um at 8:47 PM on September 4, 2017 [1 favorite]


Anything he's excited about can't be good. The man wants ketchup on his well-done steak, for crying out loud.

The other day during the eclipse, there was something floating around how the event would somehow suck $700 billion from the economy. By that metric, we must be trillions in the hole from people looking at their phones and asking, "What has that asshole done NOW?!" for these 200 days. Feels like 200 years.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 8:48 PM on September 4, 2017 [25 favorites]


I think one day in the future, when the mods have had lots and lots of time to breathe and rest, they should announce the opening of the official MetaFilter relitigate the primaries MeTa. Favorites are removed, the 'other' flag is removed, and everyone gets one comment and has to use 'I' statements. Thirty days later the thread is blasted into space.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:54 PM on September 4, 2017 [36 favorites]


Psst. That link was to a parody bit about Hillary's book. It's pretty funny, actually. So no relitigation there.
posted by litlnemo at 8:58 PM on September 4, 2017 [5 favorites]


1 In 4 Americans Thinks The Sun Goes Around The Earth, Survey Says

Who cares? Sherlock Holmes didn't:
“What the deuce is [the solar system] to me?” he exclaims to Watson in A Study in Scarlet. “You say that we go round the sun. If we went round the moon it would not make a pennyworth of difference to me or to my work.” And now that he knows that fact? “I shall do my best to forget it,” he promises.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 9:03 PM on September 4, 2017 [3 favorites]


Thirty days later the thread is blasted into space.

Thirty days later the thread with all participants is blasted into space.
posted by um at 9:04 PM on September 4, 2017 [6 favorites]




Are Baby Boomers a generation of sociopaths? Let's ask a venture capitalist for some hasty generalizations and anti-social security and anti-medicare dog-whistles!!!

You know who are sociopaths? The people who use attacks on a large amorphous groups as a proxy for their desire to dismantle social security and medicare, two proven, popular programs which are not actually in trouble unless we fail to take extremely simple, well-defined and not particularly painful steps. "Social security and medicare help the boomers, who are pure evil, so let's get rid of those things!!!" is a line of reasoning I've been hearing far too often in the past couple of years.

I really notice an increasingly paranoid mentality all over the place since Trump - whether people are blaming antifa, Russians or boomers, it's the same kind of hardening of thought, the same desire for an out-group which is evil and above all scheming and sinister, and the same desire to force that group into existence from a hodge podge of disparate interests. It's given me new insight into the red scare anyway, I guess there's that.
posted by Frowner at 9:13 PM on September 4, 2017 [82 favorites]


what happened to the bound man
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:21 PM on September 4, 2017 [1 favorite]


I mean, in re Baby Boomers and sociopathy: does it occur to anyone that Social Security and medicare are "untouchable" not because baby boomers are pure evil but because those are good programs and a lot of people want to preserve them? And that even if some boomer is all "I will get out there and vote for my social security check", that's actually all right? I mean, some enormous percentage of Americans have no retirement but what they get from social security, and those are the very Americans who are likely to work in professions where you physically give out after a while. "I'm voting for not starving in the street, and that's because I'm a sociopath," I guess.

You know what? Even if you told me that there would literally be zero social security for me when I retired, I'd still vote to continue it because society would be hugely worse with huge numbers of desperate homeless old people right now today. Most of my friends would suddenly have to feed and house their parents, for instance. Ditto for my feelings on Medicare and Medicaid.

Anyone would think that each generation sprang fresh from the head of Zeus and had no fathers or mothers, the way people talk.

We're all going to get old. Do you really think that if this line of reasoning works to attack social benefits now, it's going to go away? It will be "Gen-X-eration of sociopaths" in twenty years if we have anything worth taking away.
posted by Frowner at 9:25 PM on September 4, 2017 [82 favorites]


lol at the idea of gen-x getting any attention at all
posted by entropicamericana at 9:26 PM on September 4, 2017 [62 favorites]


Or wanting it.
posted by ctmf at 9:30 PM on September 4, 2017 [9 favorites]


To Understand Rising Inequality, Consider the Janitors at Two Top Companies, Then and Now (NYTimes):
In the 35 years between their jobs as janitors, corporations across America have flocked to a new management theory: Focus on core competence and outsource the rest. The approach has made companies more nimble and more productive, and delivered huge profits for shareholders. It has also fueled inequality and helps explain why many working-class Americans are struggling even in an ostensibly healthy economy.

The $16.60 per hour Ms. Ramos earns as a janitor at Apple works out to about the same in inflation-adjusted terms as what Ms. Evans earned 35 years ago. But that’s where the similarities end.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 9:34 PM on September 4, 2017 [15 favorites]


We're all going to get old.

I thought we're all going to be forcibly uploaded into Jupiter when Peter Thiel turns the entire planet into computronium.
posted by Coventry at 9:36 PM on September 4, 2017 [2 favorites]


the only attention Gen X wants is recognition it's been ignored.
posted by The Whelk at 9:44 PM on September 4, 2017 [37 favorites]


> Billy Joel could write a new verse for "We Didn't Start The Fire" every week with this administration if he wanted to.

Nah, let's crowdsource our own. I'll start:
Neo-nazis, Covfefe, Red "Jina", Rare Pepe
Jeff Sessions, Steve Mnuchin, Comey's gotta go
Joe and Mika, Trolls on Twitter, Approval rating's in the shitter
North Korea, South Korea, Pardoned Arpaio

Manafort, Michael Flynn, Kislyak, Tillerson
Tom Price, Spicey Time, and The Failing New York Times
Kellyanne, Bowling Green, such a fine-tuned machine
Reince Priebus, Scaramucci, "Grab 'em by the pussy!"

[chorus]

Michael Cohen, Peskov, Sater and Agalarov
Bannon's lying, now he's trying to suck on his own cock
Gary Cohn, Wilbur Ross, Mick Mulvaney, and DeVos
Ben Wittes, "tick tick tick", must be Scoop o'clock

Erdogan, Duterte, UK's got Theresa May
Joe and Mika, Fox and Friends, Mar-a-Lago -- golf again?
Alex Jones, David Duke, Kim Jong-un un has a nuke
Sally Yates, Russiagate, Putin has the Pee-Pee Tape
posted by tonycpsu at 9:48 PM on September 4, 2017 [98 favorites]


I have no sympathy for these kids. (Ben Wexler on Twitter)
posted by Joseph Gurl at 9:52 PM on September 4, 2017 [26 favorites]


Billy Joel could write a new verse for "We Didn't Start The Fire" every week with this administration if he wanted to.

There was a pretty good one a few threads back. Or maybe it was yesterday. I can't tell anymore.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 9:57 PM on September 4, 2017 [5 favorites]


(oh well whatever nevermind)
posted by riverlife at 10:01 PM on September 4, 2017 [13 favorites]


Re: general attitudes toward societal protections, I think the point is that everyone supports Social Security and Medicare, but many in the qualifying age groups for those programs do not reciprocally support anything that helps future generations, even though it would cost them literally nothing to do so.

Well, it's more complicated than that. For example, white support for social support programs has gone down (and continues to go down) ever since it became apparent they were used by POC and the GOP made an effort to cultivate that association.

Part of the reason you see Baby Boomers get so shitty towards younger generations is because they associate that generation as being more heavily POC (which it is) and thus think they're all a bunch of lazy thugs who want to live off the government.
posted by Anonymous at 10:14 PM on September 4, 2017


> the thread with all participants is blasted into space.

I've been trying to be frugal and non-noisy in these, the POTUS45 threads, but I've got say that if commenting here means being increased likelihood of being blasted into space, I'm going to have to comment a whole lot more.

Since I've been led to unhelpfully snarky...

Gerymandering reform.
Voter registration (and access!!) reform.
FCC (not) punishing/regulating media falsehoods (make them bend backwords to rely on even more obscure dogwhistles, encourage the media to identify said dogwhistles when used).

These are THE important issues and close-to-source causes of what the fuck is going wrong.

Shit, when I was in IA doing a lib arts undergrad starting in '96, I (and most of the "lefty people") already pegged CNN as the mealy mouthed "right wing media."

Fox News was just starting out and I immediately thought it was complete bullshit - how can America even go rightward of CNN? But Fox did and did and did and... (I was unaware of right-wing radio at the time)

The progressive people (many of whom remained so, and many of those who are/have been are continuing to FUCK YEAH be politically active) were clamouring for the student union building's bookstore to subscribe to the New York Times or any other politically neutral media. Heh, The Onion was a fought after commodity imported by students who returned from visits to Wisconsin.

First year students were forced to have roommates; I got an asshole young republican football playing (but "injured" so didn't play much) asshole as mine - he only got worse the more he associated with the "Proud American" crowd. The college brought me on for higher tuition and, paying lipservice, to head off this exact situation we're seeing here wrt xenophobia.

Didn't work, but maybe that was partially/mostly my fault - being a stupid 18yo forced roommate (Asian, non-sporty, non-Xtian, super literary/sciencey, druggy/party kid).

But not, this little racist-wannabe supremacist IA boy got increasingly radicalized against me (and all the other international students, and even against the popular party-going hispanics) over the course of this first year (and second, and third). This alt-right prototype entered college as an anti-partying type and ended up being some follower wannabe heavy partying support-dude.
posted by porpoise at 10:16 PM on September 4, 2017 [5 favorites]


(for anyone else wondering, CONUS = contiguous United States)

Huh. I always thought it was Continental. TIL...
posted by Samizdata at 10:21 PM on September 4, 2017 [3 favorites]


I did, too. Turns out it's both.
posted by Coventry at 10:22 PM on September 4, 2017


some follower wannabe heavy partying support-dude.

I can't even parse this, FWIW.
posted by Samizdata at 10:23 PM on September 4, 2017 [6 favorites]


I'm one of the 800,000. I'm not a child, I am in my 30s and was brought to the United States when I was 7. Since I was 7, even in an area where the demographic was always majority Hispanic I have been hiding the fact I was undocumented. At the community pool, on playgrounds, and at the blacktop in elementary the threat of being deported was more of a tease to bully kids; it didn't feel real. No less marginalizing, mind you.

Perhaps it felt especially shameful to me because I was always in the gifted classes, and correspondingly surrounded by children from demographics very different from my own (white, affluent, educated parents, etc). That sense of shame continued through high school. At that point it became about coming up with reasons I wasn’t driving or hoping they weren’t carding for the R rated movie.

Those social pressures add up, but they pale in comparison to the gripping reality of what comes after you graduated as an undocumented student. I had been preparing my whole life for college applications: community service, IB and AP classes, extracurricular activities. My parents and I got to celebrate my admission letters and I get my pick of my top schools. But slowly, reality begins to set in. No federal aid available, my parents combined earned less than my yearly tuition, I can’t afford a dorm or apartment, let alone sign a lease without an ID.

So we figure it out, I managed some private scholarships. I commute on a ride Vanpool service the school has just a little over a hundred dollars a month. I won’t buy textbooks, just do my work in the library. I’ll do some tutoring during summer to save money. All of it so much less than I am asking of my parents, they borrow and scrimp and my dad’s car gets hit but he uses the insurance money to pay my tuition. He has to beg coworkers for rides.

They manage to get me through school without getting loaded with debt. The problem is, this is 2006 and I still don’t have a work permit or an ID. I continue to take classes, tutor, find jobs, but still depend on my brother and his wife.

In 2012, Obama and DACA changed my life. As soon as that work permit was in my hand, I found a better job. I could pay for a car, my tuition and I spent the next 2 years getting my teaching credential. Two years ago I became a full time teacher in a school with 98% low income students, where over 50% are considered homeless. Every day I am trying to help kids who face greater disadvantages than I did. I’m not selfless, I still need to get payed to do it, but I’m proud of what I do for a paycheck.

What DACA gave me was the ability to feel like I can contribute, that I’m not a burden to people I love. I can help my parents, siblings, friends, and strangers. I don’t have to feel any shame just for existing in this country.

I’m sorry for the long, frankly embarrassing, personal post. The reason I wanted to write this because even though it feels uniquely mine, I’m certain this experience among those 800,000 is not unique.
posted by di11ihd at 10:24 PM on September 4, 2017 [673 favorites]


some follower wannabe heavy partying support-dude.

Stupid assed "alcohol is the devil" during highschool, but changes their mind/actions in college to sheep-like follower of people with toxic masculinity leadership skills. Who start drinking heavily and don't know how to do it well/safely.

When drunk, they rouse the rabble by having a reputation for "being a football jock" and end up being fight-ey footsoldiers for the "Real Americans" crowd and/or encourage the like.

Also, encouraging irresponsible alcohol use and using (mal)social engineering, leading to people being even more open to indoctrination (qv toxic fraternites).
posted by porpoise at 10:36 PM on September 4, 2017 [1 favorite]


Thank you so much for joining the thread and sharing your story di11ihd.

We need to fight like hell. The ACLU has a map of DACA protests in some cities tomorrow. There are also the events in New York The Whelk posted, and one for San Francisco at 5pm at the federal building. Whether you can protest or not, you can pick up the phone and call your reps in the morning.
posted by zachlipton at 10:37 PM on September 4, 2017 [34 favorites]


OK, for those of us planning to make calls tomorrow who only get our news by reading, are people pronouncing DACA like a word, or saying all four letters? Want to make sure I don't sound like a weirdo
posted by potrzebie at 10:43 PM on September 4, 2017 [3 favorites]


Like a word.
posted by zachlipton at 10:46 PM on September 4, 2017 [2 favorites]


some follower wannabe heavy partying support-dude.

Stupid assed "alcohol is the devil" during highschool, but changes their mind/actions in college to sheep-like follower of people with toxic masculinity leadership skills. Who start drinking heavily and don't know how to do it well/safely.

When drunk, they rouse the rabble by having a reputation for "being a football jock" and end up being fight-ey footsoldiers for the "Real Americans" crowd and/or encourage the like.

Also, encouraging irresponsible alcohol use and using (mal)social engineering, leading to people being even more open to indoctrination (qv toxic fraternites).


Cheers for the clarification. Never known one.
posted by Samizdata at 10:56 PM on September 4, 2017


I'm so, so sorry this is happening to you, di11ihd. I'll think of you when I do this week's calls and organizing against the DACA repeal.
posted by Rykey at 11:29 PM on September 4, 2017 [16 favorites]


"Hi, here's a good and decent presidential option."

I thought we had that last time.

We did. And she won by three million votes. It's not even been a year and people seem to forget that.

We outnumber the maga idiots, never forget that.
posted by zardoz at 12:09 AM on September 5, 2017 [65 favorites]


I’m sorry for the long, frankly embarrassing, personal post

Thanks for writing it.
posted by dmh at 12:17 AM on September 5, 2017 [36 favorites]


Seriously,

We outnumber the maga idiots, never forget that.

Remind people, make it a point. He won by hook and crook, and even then only barely.
posted by From Bklyn at 12:19 AM on September 5, 2017 [7 favorites]


We outnumber the maga idiots, never forget that.

We're not locked up in here with them. They're locked up in here with us.
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:36 AM on September 5, 2017 [52 favorites]


By the way, the inspiration for the thread title: (YouTube video).
posted by darkstar at 1:53 AM on September 5, 2017 [3 favorites]


Leopards, faces; but they don't deserve this:
When ICE Came for the Chaldeans
posted by Joe in Australia at 2:47 AM on September 5, 2017 [18 favorites]


You're not a burden di11ihd, we want you. People like you actually make America great, and we will not forget you or people like you. We will fight for you.
posted by supercrayon at 3:02 AM on September 5, 2017 [123 favorites]


di11ihd, v. few things I've read on MetaFilter have made me cry. Your comment (your life story really) did. Thank you so much for writing it. It's good to have another arrow in my quiver for the war to save DACA.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:54 AM on September 5, 2017 [30 favorites]


OUT: Leopards IN: Tigers, Chettahs

The Insane Gifts Saudi Arabia Gave President Trump (Ken Klippenatein, Daily Beast)
During the presidential campaign, Donald Trump attacked Hillary Clinton for accepting money from the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, complaining during one of the debates, “These are people that kill women and treat women horribly and yet you take their money.”

That was, of course, before he made his first foreign visit as president to Saudi Arabia—and accepted dozens of gifts from the kingdom. In fact, during Trump’s visit, the White House accepted at least 83 separate gifts from Saudi Arabia, according to a document The Daily Beast has obtained via a Freedom of Information Act request to the State Department.

The gifts range from the regal (“Artwork featuring picture of President Trump”) to the martial (multiple swords, daggers, leather ammo holders and holsters), to the baroque (tiger and cheetah fur robes, and a dagger made of pure silver with a mother of pearl sheath). Now when the president is contemplating the state of Saudi women’s rights, he can do so before a “large canvas artwork depicting [a] Saudi woman.”
Full list at The Daily Beast
posted by Room 641-A at 4:00 AM on September 5, 2017 [17 favorites]


We need a graphic the can be easily drawn and spray painted

Meet the Artist Whose Swastika-Inspired Anti-Trump Logo Has Gone Viral Across the Country
posted by OnceUponATime at 4:10 AM on September 5, 2017 [20 favorites]


di11ihd, I went to HS with a number of gals in your situation but in the dark. Their parents frankly lied to them about their status, couching it in strictness. "Girls shouldn't be driving at night, I can drive you where you need to go, you don't need a license." "No, you should help at home, you don't need an after school job." "I'm glad you got a part in that play but you're only in the chorus so you need to drop out and work in the family business instead." "If I let you get an ID you'll just cross the border and go drinking like a bad girl." (Drinking age was 18). "Just apply in town, I don't want you to move so far away to college. " "Why would you want to go to school far away with a bunch of gringos?"

Eventually they'd graduate and maybe go into college locally, part time, or want to get a job, but the truth would come out, and the only way to "get legal" was to marry in their late teens to a citizen. not a lot of happy marriages in that cohort. And it angers me that the parents would just stymie every opportunity these young ladies might have to succeed if they'd been able to have a path to citizenship, participatory citizenship, even legal alien status to work and pay taxes and go to school other than the local community college.

A lot of us graduated with small business management skills (vo tech high) because this was the way it was done. The school knew the fates of the non college and US citizen status negative girls, and adjusted their curriculum accordingly. With the SMB route, girls could marry and run their husband or fathers or uncles or other older relatives' small business, off the books or just over the Texas/Mexico border at best. Or marry young and just make sure their kids are born on the "right" side of the line this time.
posted by tilde at 4:22 AM on September 5, 2017 [42 favorites]


Leopards, faces; but they don't deserve this:

No, but they voted for it.
posted by thelonius at 4:25 AM on September 5, 2017 [19 favorites]


Gifts to the President are not considered their personal property, it's official US government property, and eventually ends up in museums or vaults at the national archive, then the presidential library. After leaving office the president is supposed to pay fair market value to personally keep anything.

Let's see how many cheetah skin rugs and pure silver daggers instead end up on the walls of a Trump property.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:35 AM on September 5, 2017 [14 favorites]


Hoo boy can you imagine what the Trump presidental library will be like
posted by Melismata at 4:41 AM on September 5, 2017 [9 favorites]


Probably something like this?
posted by Molesome at 4:54 AM on September 5, 2017 [10 favorites]


realdonaldtrump on twitter: get to work on daca, congress (not exact, close enough)
posted by Yowser at 5:33 AM on September 5, 2017


get to work on daca, congress

Easy peasy. Just pass legislation making DACA law. Done by lunchtime.
posted by mikelieman at 5:42 AM on September 5, 2017 [6 favorites]


"I am allowing Japan & South Korea to buy a substantially increased amount of highly sophisticated military equipment from the United States." [real] [two compound adjectives, wonder who wrote it]
posted by box at 5:44 AM on September 5, 2017 [3 favorites]


Yeah, he was pretty vague on which way he wanted DACA to go.

As if it wasn't obvious which way that white supremacist and the racist keebler wants it to go.
posted by Yowser at 5:45 AM on September 5, 2017 [2 favorites]


[DACA repeal] doesn't activate for six months. The narrative can be "Trump wanted Congress to pass a law about them, rather than having to rely on the extra-legal Executive Order that Obama decreed."

Speaking of narrative, even-the-liberal-NPR helped reinforce the phony narrative this morning by airing, unchallenged, an audio clip of Trump calling Obama's executive order illegal.

In reality, and as NPR probably knows, Congress forces the President to impose priorities by not providing the resources to round up every illegal immigrant. And, of course, the Republicans weren't willing to mount a serious legal challenge to DACA, just call it illegal in friendly media venues.

Which these days, it appears, includes NPR.
posted by Gelatin at 5:57 AM on September 5, 2017 [48 favorites]


It's the advance parole - the work permit, which can be granted on a "only on a case by case basis," per the statute - that is illegal, not the prioritization of resources for deportation.
posted by jpe at 6:03 AM on September 5, 2017 [1 favorite]


Moscow Times - looks legit.
Putin left a reporter’s question on whether he thinks Trump faces impeachment, unanswered. The question followed comments from Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova on a Sunday talk show that “it could be worth remembering” that “not all American presidents have reached the end of their term.”

The comment marks a significant departure from the positive tone struck by Russian state media and officials leading up to Trump's election last November.
posted by tilde at 6:20 AM on September 5, 2017 [10 favorites]


Susan Davis/NPR: 6 Priorities Congress Has To Deal With In 12 Days
  1. Keep the government running
  2. Avoid the first-ever default
  3. Begin Hurricane Harvey relief efforts
  4. Renew the National Flood Insurance Program
  5. Renew children's health care
  6. Face reality on health care
All this before September 30th.
posted by ZeusHumms at 6:26 AM on September 5, 2017 [31 favorites]


Susan Davis/NPR: 6 Priorities Congress Has To Deal With In 12 Days

i will never beat myself up for procrastinating ever again
posted by murphy slaw at 6:27 AM on September 5, 2017 [45 favorites]


For those who, despite their good looks, hipness, and inherent coolstery, had too look up the post title, the answer is Futurama. Specfically America's penultimate worst President, Reagan, Dubya, Robot Nixon.
(Bottom of page)
posted by petebest at 6:27 AM on September 5, 2017 [7 favorites]




All this before September 30th.

And we can add to that a Category 5 hurricane possibly aimed at Miami, one of the few places where landfall could be much worse than Harvey, in what disaster planners call "the scariest scenario."
posted by zombieflanders at 6:44 AM on September 5, 2017 [14 favorites]


Two years ago I became a full time teacher in a school with 98% low income students, where over 50% are considered homeless.

One thing that continues to drive me crazy about the GOP's continued resistance to every progressive program is how much financial sense they make.

I think that a lot of people hear or read anecdotes like that and think to themselves, "Wow, because of DACA, this person really was able to pull themselves up by their bootstraps. Now they've got a fulfilling and successful career helping others somewhat like themselves. A real American success story!" And from a moral perspective I think that's right on the mark.

But I look at that story with my financial eye and I see a story about a family that the U.S. as a society should have been investing in, should have spent years being a net tax drain. And despite the fact that that didn't happen, has nonetheless turned themselves into a net tax contributor. Additionally, I would argue that smart, hard-working, driven, passionate teacher in school with a lot low-income students will have secondary effects that cause tax expenditures to be lower among that teacher's students and/or increases tax income from that group.

Is every single citizen and potential citizen that gets "invested" in payoff? No certainly not. But I absolutely believe that every effective social program contributes to a net gain in tax revenue. Take the humanity out of it and look at it as a cold financial problem and welfare and other social programs as investments and I think they still make sense. Though you've got to bring the humanity back into the mix pretty fast before you start thinking of people in terms of a "bad investment" and "throwing good money after bad" and the like.

If it were up to me, I'd locate every undocumented immigrant in the country and I'd give them documents, I'd give them homes, food, education, and a damn stipend along with everyone else with similar needs. Then I'd be able to pay-off the national debt with the massive influx of tax revenue years later as many of those families start to have some success.

"Wages are up, stock market is setting new record highs, unemployment at record lows, GDP with nice sustained gains, everyone in the U.S. is happy and healthy as are all our allies? That's nice and all, but did you see the ROI on that tax money we keep spending on the needy? I'm a financial genius!" said hypothetical president for life VTX in a future that will never exist.

Also ask.me would be the unofficial assistant cabinet secretary for every cabinet position.
posted by VTX at 6:45 AM on September 5, 2017 [67 favorites]


...she won by three million votes. It's not even been a year and people seem to forget that.

And on the most progressive major-party platform in American history.
posted by kirkaracha at 6:50 AM on September 5, 2017 [40 favorites]


di11ihd: Two years ago I became a full time teacher...

God DAMN, you are exactly the kind of person -- 100% regardless of where you were born -- that America needs more of: self-directed, empathetic, mindful of opportunity, and working hard to make things better for the next generation. Instead of pulling up the ladder, you've gone to work in the ladder factory.

Come here, stay here, post as much as you want!

You can be the damn guest of honor at any MeFi MeetUp you attend, if I don't miss my guess, and I will happily buy you a beer or a coffee any time you're in Providence, RI.
posted by wenestvedt at 6:54 AM on September 5, 2017 [63 favorites]


Hoo boy can you imagine what the Trump presidental library will be like

The Daily Show gave us a preview in June.
posted by kirkaracha at 6:59 AM on September 5, 2017 [1 favorite]


Easy peasy. Just pass legislation making DACA law. Done by lunchtime.

And then every Republican who voted for it is primaried on the basis of having voted for "amnesty" for illegal immigrants. As long as Congress is in Republican hands, I wish I could see a path forward for the law, but I don't. Which means Trump is setting up Congress to take the blame for his own odious policy. Nice.

One thing that continues to drive me crazy about the GOP's continued resistance to every progressive program is how much financial sense they make.

Don't feel bad; it's obviously driven the Republicans crazy too.
posted by Gelatin at 7:07 AM on September 5, 2017 [1 favorite]


Don't feel bad; it's obviously driven the Republicans crazy too.

Like how a black guy stole their idea for healthcare?
posted by Talez at 7:20 AM on September 5, 2017 [10 favorites]


Like how a black guy stole their idea for healthcare?

No, that's the symptom, not the disease. For good or ill, Obama proposed health insurance reform that he believed could attract Republican support. But since the depravity of the Republican party means that everything is political and they have no sincere political beliefs apart from "oppose whatever Democrats are for -- well, none that they can claim in public other than "cut taxes for the rich" -- Republicans voted in lockstep against it, even so-called "moderates" like McCain, Collins, and Olympia Snowe (now retired).

And why not? One of the few times "Bloody" Bill Kristol has been right is in his infamous memo to Republicans advising that they oppose Clinton's health reform on the grounds that it would validate Democratic theories of government and prove popular with voters. Which, it turns out, years later, was in fact the case.

It's a critical mistake to imagine that Republicans operate in good faith, and yet it's one that the so-called "liberal media" makes all the time (as do many Democrats). Whether it's because they're fools or knaves, I can't tell.
posted by Gelatin at 7:26 AM on September 5, 2017 [23 favorites]


The main problem here is that the US has immigration law that is utterly and completely at odds with reality, especially economic reality.

The simple, undeniable, fact is that the US corporate world has a huge appetite for labor that is not met by extant US citizens. There's good arguments to be made that this is due in large part to the US corporate world being unwilling to offer wages to make up for the shittiness of said jobs, or at least to make the jobs sufficiently less shitty that the low wages would be tolerable to most US citizens. But that's a secondary issue.

The key fact from an immigration standpoint is that there's a massive demand for labor that isn't met by US citizens, and with unemployment low it probably wouldn't be even if the wages rose or conditions improved.

This means immigrant labor is going to be paid and desired.

But US immigration law is both archaic and racist and doesn't permit enough legal immigrants to meet the corporate demand for labor. The process is all but deliberately designed to be obnoxious, awkward, filled with pitfalls and gotcha clauses, and basically to keep people out. Add immigration caps that are far too low, and you've got a system where illegal immigration is inevitable.

The simple, obvious, solution is to open the floodgates to legal immigration. Make work permits easy and simple to obtain, untie them from employers so the immigrants aren't held hostage by their bosses, and make them abundant.

Part of the problem is that a great many industries that employ large numbers of illegal immigrants don't actually want their labor force to be legal. They want the border patrol to stop bugging them, but they like the power the illegal status of their workers gives them. If the workers try to get better pay or conditions they can simply turn them over to ICE or threaten to. From an employer standpoint illegal workers are the best possible workers because they will work under conditions that are illegal, without health insurance for pay that's under minimum wage, with no employer contributions to social security, medicare/medicaid, unemployment, or any of the other overhead costs of having employees. And they can't unionize or even really complain.

So the industries that depend on immigrant labor, the ones who should in theory be flexing their lobbying muscle to update immigration law to allow vastly more legal immigrants, are often working quite diligently to maintain the status quo.

If organized labor had more clout the Democrats would be forced to put immigration reform at a higher priority, but organized labor has no clout.

As a result we've had an archaic, out of date, unrealistic, and blatantly racist immigration policy for my entire life, and a large undocumented population as a result.

No one but the racists or (or perhaps in Trump's case utter morons) actually wants to deport all the undocumented immigrants. Every time that happens industry collapses and the economy takes a massive hit. But a lot of powerful people **DO** want to keep undocumented immigrants as an officially oppressed underclass. They do not like the Dreamers who succeed, they want immigrants kept down, kept scared, and kept working shit jobs for pathetic wages.
posted by sotonohito at 7:38 AM on September 5, 2017 [139 favorites]


Susan Davis/NPR: 6 Priorities Congress Has To Deal With In 12 Days

Also, the FAA has to be reauthorized by the end of September. The House bill HR 2997 includes the privatization of ATC services, the senate bill does not. The CBO has scored the ATC privatization, it would cost $90.7 billion. This figure does not seem to include the billions of dollars of existing government assets that would be transferred to a new for-profit entity.
posted by peeedro at 7:42 AM on September 5, 2017 [8 favorites]


I'm so old that when I read "Menendez trial" I think of this.
posted by Faint of Butt at 7:50 AM on September 5, 2017 [30 favorites]


Just wondering, has anyone reported that Chinese officials laughed out loud at the idea that the US would cease to trade with China as a tactic to get China to be harder on North Korea? Because I laughed when I heard about it.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:50 AM on September 5, 2017 [12 favorites]


Immigration is basically net zero on job loss/creation - there's some argument as to whether it's a small job creator or a small job loser, since the math is such that it's basically a rounding error. There's nothing wrong with immigration except that if you make it all legal, you lose your reserve labor army that you can underpay and overcharge. Partly, of course, this country likes undocumented labor because undocumented people can be underpaid, but also because they can be screwed on rent, for instance, and can't complain. And of course, can't vote.

It is absolutely a labor issue, but not for the reasons that conservative unions think - it's a labor issue because if immigrants were all able to get papers and citizenship (if they wanted citizenship, of course) it would enormously diminish the power of big business.

Borders are a thing that exists to keep people in while money moves - they exist to give the advantage to money over humans.

There is a Minneapolis march at 4pm starting at 2200 E Franklin today if anyone has the time to go - I imagine that it won't really get marching until 4:30. My guess is that if you were late, you could hear it for a while after it left.
posted by Frowner at 7:52 AM on September 5, 2017 [44 favorites]




Greg Sargent: Don’t be fooled by the scam that Trump will pull today on DACA (emphasis in original)
[L]et’s be clear on what this six-month delay actually does and does not do. Because of the logistical realities that attend winding down these protections, announcing this on a “six-month delay” is very likely to be identical in practical terms to announcing it today for a large majority of those 800,000 people. And for that large majority, it means they are losing their protections in the very near future, upending the lives of hundreds of thousands who currently are working or pursuing an education and had hoped to continue making positive contributions to American life.
[...]
David Bier, an immigration policy analyst at the Cato Institute, recently did a study, using administration data, that laid out how DACA status would expire over time for its recipients if Trump ends it. His data show that nearly 600,000 people are set to see their status expire after March 5. Bier emailed me:
About 24 percent of DACA recipients, or 190,00, will be able to renew their permits before March 5. The rest —roughly 595,000, will have their permits expire.
There is another crucial point here, however: For all those people, their status would have expired at the same time even if Trump had not announced this on a six-month delay. If Trump were to cancel DACA today, and specify that people would lose it on a rolling basis upon expiration of their status, all those people’s statuses would have expired on the same date as it will under the “six-month delay” announcement that is coming today, because all of them stand to see their status expire after the six months is up anyway.
posted by zombieflanders at 7:57 AM on September 5, 2017 [17 favorites]


It is absolutely a labor issue, but not for the reasons that conservative unions think - it's a labor issue because if immigrants were all able to get papers and citizenship (if they wanted citizenship, of course) it would enormously diminish the power of big business.

Conservatives do not really think that immigrant labor really is a labor problem -- again, it's a mistake to presume that anything that comes out of Republican politician's pie holes represents a good faith argument.

Republicans' corporate and rent-seeker backers absolutely rely on an exploitable labor force -- after all, one obvious counterweight to the demand problem of immigrant labor is to make penalties for employing them high enough as to be no longer profitable, and no Republican pushes that idea very hard.

And let's face it: The real issue here is nativism. As has been the case with every other immigrant group, current immigrants are despised by Republicans because they speak Spanish. That's why they cheer the racist policies of fascists like Joe Arpaio.

The economic argument is just a smokescreen for the racist motivation of immigrant hatred. We shouldn't respect it.
posted by Gelatin at 8:00 AM on September 5, 2017 [39 favorites]


Sessions: "I'm here today to announce that the program known as DACA that was initiated by the Obama Administration is being rescinded."
posted by zachlipton at 8:04 AM on September 5, 2017 [1 favorite]


How do broken people like Jeff Sessions make it so far as a politician?
posted by ZeusHumms at 8:09 AM on September 5, 2017 [4 favorites]


*silently rants against the media for the zillionth time*
posted by Melismata at 8:10 AM on September 5, 2017 [1 favorite]


The tiki torch reichslarpers must be having a fuckin ball today
posted by theodolite at 8:12 AM on September 5, 2017 [14 favorites]


So far, we've had Sessions claim that DACA led to a surge in unaccompanied children at the border (it only applies to those who came before 2007), the importance of the rule of law (Trump don't give a crap about that, see the Arpaio pardon and his efforts to shut down the Russia investigation, among others), and appears to be having the time of his life destroying people's lives right now.

He just walked off without taking any questions or providing any details, such as on how the personal information of DACA recipients will be treated. While he said DHS would have a "wind down" of the program, I didn't even hear him mention six months.
posted by zachlipton at 8:14 AM on September 5, 2017 [24 favorites]


How do broken people like Jeff Sessions make it so far as a politician?

Broken people vote.
posted by darkstar at 8:14 AM on September 5, 2017 [16 favorites]


Another deeply distressing part of this is that since the DACA recipients had to apply for that status, the government now has a complete list of them and their contact info so it can be easily turned over to ICE and the people who had trusted the Obama administration to do the right thing will now be punished for trying to follow rules and do the right thing themselves.

I have absolutely no doubt at all that all DACA recipient info is already in the hands of CBP and will be used to find and deport them as quickly and cruelly as possible.
posted by sotonohito at 8:17 AM on September 5, 2017 [62 favorites]


I admit, I do kinda enjoy how Clarke keeps saying "I'm gonna have this job!" and even the people in this broken-ass administration are all "LOL NOPE".
posted by Etrigan at 8:19 AM on September 5, 2017 [18 favorites]


despised by Republicans because they speak Spanish / racist motivation

Or plain old "Not from around here, are yah?" provincialism...

And I mean, under the right circumstances people will discriminate based on eye-color or even T-shirt color, or be cruel just because an authority figure has given them permission to to be cruel.

If it's not race it's language, or nationality, or gender, or the date of Easter or the rightful successor to Mohammed 1400 years ago, or latte-drinking, sushi-eating, and Volvo-driving, or whatever.

I think this tendency of humans to find any excuse to separate in-groups and out-groups is the answer to the question "How do broken people like Jeff Sessions make it so far as a politician?"
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:20 AM on September 5, 2017 [19 favorites]


Glenn Thrush, Maggie Haberman, and Julie Hirschfeld of the New York Times: On DACA, President Trump Has No Easy Path
Last week, with a key court deadline looming for Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals, or DACA, Mr. Trump, exasperated, asked his aides for “a way out” of a dilemma he created by promising to roll back the program as a presidential candidate, according to two people familiar with the exchange. [...]

Mr. Trump’s staff had always intended to refer the issue to Congress, and Mr. Kelly began discussing the possibility when he was in the cabinet, two senior White House official said. But they never planned to toss what one of the officials described as an unpinned hand grenade at Capitol Hill Republicans quite this soon.

Doing that, however, fits a pattern that Mr. Trump has established in recent months of postponing consequential decisions on contentious topics, like health care reform, leaving it to senior members of his administration or Republican congressional leaders to articulate a final position while seeking to deflect blame for the results.
For. Fuck. Sake. What a chickenshit coward--howling endlessly about "illegal" immigrants, then begging for a way to not have to follow through. Hey Donnie, I have a suggestion, how about leaving the program in place? That's the way out. Tell your pet Confederate elf to STFU and sit the fuck down because the conversation is done.

Furthermore, the regime are saying they think they can get a bill on immigration reform through Congress when apparently McConnell Would Give Trump Silent Treatment To Keep Him On Topic (Esme Cribb of TPM reporting on a pay-walled WSJ article) and their relationship has deteriorated into shouting matches and cursing? Not to mention apparently people close to the situation are worried that Keith Schiller's apparent departure is going to be a big problem: Key Trump Aide’s Departure Rattles President’s Allies (Shannon Pettypiece and Jennifer Jacobs in Bloomberg)
President Donald Trump’s allies are worried that the most damaging of the many recent departures from his White House may be that of Keith Schiller, a little-known former bodyguard who’s one of the president’s closest confidants outside his family.

Schiller is leaving the White House soon to return to the private security business, according to three people familiar with his plans, for a job that will pay far more than his $165,000 government salary. His title, director of Oval Office operations, hardly begins to describe his importance to Trump, who is “crushed” by his planned departure, according to one person close to the president.

Multiple people interviewed described Schiller as an emotional anchor for the president in a White House often marked by turmoil. Schiller has worked for Trump for nearly two decades, and within the West Wing he serves as the president’s protector, gate-keeper and wing man, according to people close to Schiller and Trump. Most of the people requested anonymity to candidly discuss relationships between the president and his aides.
All of this on top of the debt ceiling, hurricane disaster relief/management, CHIP renewal, tax fuckery, healthcare, the budget...There's no stability, and 800,000 people who are doing great things for our shared country are in danger of being harassed and deported. Going to work on some talking points for our legislatures. Citizens must protect the DREAMers, so they can be citizens too.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 8:21 AM on September 5, 2017 [41 favorites]


This will be a crime against humanity.
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:21 AM on September 5, 2017 [22 favorites]


Some details from DHS on how this will be implemented, via @VivianHYee:
Sessions isn't taking questions, but here are some details from the DHS press call earlier:
1. DHS will process new DACA applications that have been received as of today on a case-by-case basis, but won't take new ones after today.
2. Applications for *renewing* DACA that have been received as of today will be processed as usual.
3. People whose DACA will expire between now and March 5, 2018, can still apply for renewal by Oct. 5. Renewal lasts for 2 years.
4. DHS won't strip DACA status from people who have it right now; they'll keep it for the remainder of their 2-year period.
5. In 2018, 275,344 people are set to have DACA expire. Of those, 7,271 have applied for DACA renewal.
6. From Jan-Aug 2019, DACA will expire for 321,920 people. Of those, 8 have applied for renewal.
7. ICE says they won't target DACA holders; they're still "prioritizing" criminals/people already ordered removed. BUT...
8. ...people who lose DACA will be treated like anyone else in the country illegally — putting them at risk of deportation under Trump.
9. There's lots of concern about ICE using DACA application data—addresses, names, etc—to go after them...
This puts thousands of people who will have their status expire between now in March in the ridiculously impossible decision of deciding whether to renew it in the next month or not.
posted by zachlipton at 8:23 AM on September 5, 2017 [45 favorites]


So we know who won the Purge Lottery this past week. Keith Schiller has, indeed, left Trump. Early reports that this might happen surfaced a week ago but hadn't been confirmed until this weekend.

Taking bets on the next to be defenestrated?
posted by darkstar at 8:26 AM on September 5, 2017 [4 favorites]


Well. I guess we'll be seeing a lot more asylum seekers entering Canada from the USA in the near future. We've already had thousands enter Canada this year, many of them Haitians after their status was rescinded.
posted by fimbulvetr at 8:31 AM on September 5, 2017 [4 favorites]


One cannot favorite this comment enough. The reliance on this type of work is modern day indentured servitude. So close to slavery, but since the illegal immigrants are paid and we have our Prison System for the unpaid labor, indentured servitude will suffice.
posted by snwod at 8:31 AM on September 5, 2017 [8 favorites]


kelly seems to be doing a bang up job of kicking out/keeping out the really dangerous idiots.

unfortunately, nobody except really dangerous idiots can deal with trump long-term.

this has got to come to a head soon.
posted by murphy slaw at 8:32 AM on September 5, 2017 [7 favorites]


>Putin left a reporter’s question on whether he thinks Trump faces impeachment, unanswered. The question followed comments from Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova on a Sunday talk show that “it could be worth remembering” that “not all American presidents have reached the end of their term.”

>The comment marks a significant departure from the positive tone struck by Russian state media and officials leading up to Trump's election last November.


Keep in mind that Putin's overarching goal is not "support Trump!" but rather "weaken and destabilize all of its major opponents".

Supporting Trump during election season was the clearest path towards that goal last year; now the scene has changed, and having the country spend a few years engaged in internecine political wars about whether or not to impeach Trump helps Putin reach the same goal.

Keep that in mind as the investigation on Russian interference in the election moves forward . . .

And keep in mind that Putin isn't Trump's best friend, rather a canny political operator who is looking towards his own survival and political future first, Russia's second, and everyone else's not at all.
posted by flug at 8:34 AM on September 5, 2017 [32 favorites]


I admit, I do kinda enjoy how Clarke keeps saying "I'm gonna have this job!" and even the people in this broken-ass administration are all "LOL NOPE".

Gorka/Clarke 2020
Keep nope alive
posted by Room 641-A at 8:35 AM on September 5, 2017 [9 favorites]


Current WaPo headline: "Why Trump will likely be watching Sen. Robert Menendez’s corruption trial closely." Yeah, right, I thought all he ever watched was reality shows. For god'ssake, media, I asked you WEEKS ago to stop pretending that he was a real president who should be acting presidential. You're not listening.
posted by Melismata at 8:36 AM on September 5, 2017 [4 favorites]


Well it is good news that Schiller is out, this is another non educated close confidant and advisor to the POTUS, and therefore not at all qualified for his job, except in his loyalty to protect the President. Manly looking, empty suit. Apparently 45 loves these.
posted by Oyéah at 8:38 AM on September 5, 2017 [2 favorites]


ICE has always been terrible, apparently.

Harry Siegel, Daily Beast: ICE Wrongly Imprisoned an American Citizen for 1,273 Days. Judges Say He’s Owed $0.
A not so fun fact about what Donald Rumsfeld once called “known unknowns”: ICE doesn’t know or won’t say how many American citizens have been arrested and imprisoned by Immigrations and Customs Enforcement. It’s illegal for ICE to imprison Americans, but so long as its agents don’t believe you are one, the burden is on you to prove it—without being entitled to a lawyer, since most deportation hearings are civil proceedings.

An NPR analysis this year found 693 citizens have been held in local jails on federal detainer requests since 2007 and 818 more have been imprisoned directly by ICE.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:41 AM on September 5, 2017 [61 favorites]


Gorka/Clarke 2020

Gorka is a naturalized citizen and could never be president or VP.
posted by Talez at 8:45 AM on September 5, 2017


Sure he could, laws don't apply to Republicans.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:52 AM on September 5, 2017 [8 favorites]


An interactive map of Trump's known holdings

Looks familiar.
posted by kirkaracha at 8:58 AM on September 5, 2017


National Treasure Alexandra Petri, WaPo: John Kelly is running a tight ship
Every few days without fail, in some publication or another, an article appears that runs roughly along the following lines: Previously in the White House, things were in disarray, but now retired general John Kelly is putting an end to all that. To save whoever is next due to write this the trouble of having to go out and get the same quotes all over again, I have gone ahead and written it for him or her. Take the day off, please.

JOHN KELLY IS IMPOSING MILITARY DISCIPLINE, AND THE ALARMING THING YOU DID NOT KNOW WAS HAPPENING BUT THAT APPARENTLY HAPPENED EVERY DAY WILL NOT HAPPEN ANY MORE, PROBABLY (BUT THEN AGAIN IT MIGHT).

Since taking over as chief of staff, retired Marine general John F. Kelly has been taking steps to streamline the flow of communication to the president’s desk. Now, visitors will come to the front door and very soberly hand Donald Trump a printout from a list of real websites, instead of the way Trump used to get his information, from Stephen K. Bannon crawling in through the air vent in his pajamas to rant at length about a creepy dream he had.

General Kelly is in charge, and that will not happen any more.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:03 AM on September 5, 2017 [24 favorites]


most of us speak only one language

Or, as in the case of many Republican elected officials, fewer.
posted by Faint of Butt at 9:03 AM on September 5, 2017 [17 favorites]


hey cjelli - the link you posted to Dick Durbin's press release about his and Graham's Dream act is dated 7.20.17 . . . am I missing something?
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 9:10 AM on September 5, 2017


-Demonstrate proficiency in the English language and a knowledge of United States history; and
-Have not committed a felony or other serious crimes and do not pose a threat to our country.


So when are the Trumps being deported?
posted by dirigibleman at 9:11 AM on September 5, 2017 [40 favorites]


ICE has always been terrible, apparently.

I was just wondering about that this morning. There's been a slew of recent stories of ICE being vindictive and cruel and it's usually attributed to being emboldened by the Trump administration and/or authorization from Kelly's time as DHS head. But is that confirmation bias or were they just as bad under Obama? I tend to imagine that if Obama heard stories of ICE waiting outside schools to round up people that he'd put a stop to that shit or somebody would lose their job, but I still wonder how much of this stuff went under the radar and has been happening for years.
posted by TwoWordReview at 9:14 AM on September 5, 2017 [9 favorites]



It's the advance parole - the work permit, which can be granted on a "only on a case by case basis," per the statute - that is illegal, not the prioritization of resources for deportation.
posted by jpe at 6:03 AM on September 5
[1 favorite +] [!]


Isn't the application process a case-by-case basis?
posted by Mental Wimp at 9:20 AM on September 5, 2017






From the Petri column posted by Johnny Wallflower, above:
The paranoid welter of former reality-TV stars, conspiracy theorists and wicker men full of angry hornets who previously supplied Donald Trump with all his news now are only allowed to communicate with him via Twitter, text or talking to him through the television. But his office door is shut to them.
Heh.
posted by darkstar at 9:29 AM on September 5, 2017 [13 favorites]




The Gerasimov Doctrine
In February 2013, General Valery Gerasimov — Russia’s chief of the General Staff, comparable to the U.S. chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff—published a 2,000-word article, “The Value of Science is in the Foresight,” in the weekly Russian trade paper Military-Industrial Kurier. Gerasimov took tactics developed by the Soviets, blended them with strategic military thinking about total war, and laid out a new theory of modern warfare — one that looks more like hacking an enemy’s society than attacking it head-on. He wrote: “The very ‘rules of war’ have changed. The role of nonmilitary means of achieving political and strategic goals has grown, and, in many cases, they have exceeded the power of force of weapons in their effectiveness … All this is supplemented by military means of a concealed character.”
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:47 AM on September 5, 2017 [13 favorites]


Now we must dwarf what we did to protect the ACA.

Saturday Protestor == Sunshine Patriot
posted by perspicio at 9:52 AM on September 5, 2017 [7 favorites]


There's been a slew of recent stories of ICE being vindictive and cruel and it's usually attributed to being emboldened by the Trump administration and/or authorization from Kelly's time as DHS head. But is that confirmation bias or were they just as bad under Obama?

Here's about an hour of absolutely horrifying reporting by On The Media from 2014 about rights abuses and suspension of rule of law at the border.
posted by contraption at 9:54 AM on September 5, 2017 [9 favorites]


This is an administration defined solely by its depravity, any claims to the contrary are lies that further demonstrate their bad faith and corruption.
posted by strange chain at 9:58 AM on September 5, 2017 [1 favorite]


Here are some talking points to use when writing, calling, and faxing your legislators. Useful targets for action are your House Representative, Senators, the Senate Judiciary Subcommittee on Boarder Security and Immigration, and the House Judiciary Subcommittee on Immigration and Boarder Security. If your Representative or Senators are on one of these committees make sure to call them!

Senate Judiciary Subcommittee on Boarder Security and Immigration:
  • Majority Office phone number: 202-224-7840
  • Minority Office phone number: 202-224-6991
Committee members:
  • Republicans
    • Chair John Cornyn (R-TX)
    • John Kennedy (R-LA)
    • Charles Grassley (R-IA)
    • Ted Cruz (R-TX)
    • Mike Crapo (R-ID)
    • Jeff Flake (R-AZ)
    • Mike Lee (R-UT)
  • Democrats
    • Ranking Member Dick Durbin (D-IL)
    • Dianne Feinstein (D-CA)
    • Patrick Leahy (D-VT)
    • Al Franken (D-MN)
    • Richard Blumenthal (D-CT)
    • Maize Hirono (D-HI)

House Judiciary Subcommittee on Immigration and Boarder Security
:
  • Republicans
    • Chair Raúl Labrador (ID-01)
    • Jim Sensenbrenner (WI-05)
    • Lamar Smith (TX-21)
    • Steve King (IA-04)
    • Jim Jordan (OH-04)
    • Ken Buck (CO-04)
    • Mike Johnson (LA-04)
    • Andy Biggs (AZ-05)
  • Democrats
    • Ranking Member Zoe Lofgren (CA-19)
    • Luis Gutierrez (IL-04)
    • Pramila Jayapal (WA-07)
    • Sheila Jackson Lee (TX-18)
    • David Cicilline (RI-01)
Now to the talking points.
[Congresscritter So-and-so],

I support the Deferred Action for Children Arrivals (DACA) policy whole-heartedly. I am furious, appalled, and disgusted by Donald Trump's cowardly decision to end the program. There is no good reason to end the program, only the hateful white supremacy of the traitor Jefferson Davis and his scions. [Optional--As a member of the Subcommittee on Boarder Security and Immigration, you have a great deal of power to aid immigrants and strengthen our society through their incorporation and recognition.]

I support DACA and DREAMers because:

* It would be inhumanely cruel to deport people who have grown up in the United States to a country they have never lived in. The USA is their home, and they should not be forced out!

* It is wrong to punish a person for the decisions that their parents made when said person was a child.

* Many DACA participants came here seeking better economic opportunities or fleeing political violence. I want them to be able to continue the lives they have built here because of DACA!

* These people are contributing to our economy. They are hardworking people who, in many cases, have overcome to hardship to be successful. These people are industrious and resilient, and I want them here!

* The United States needs immigrants to move here--we need to welcome these hard-working immigrants.

* People are NOT illegal.

In response to Trump and Sessions' cruelty, I expect that you will vote for comprehensive immigration that does not cut legal immigration, protects people here under DACA, and expands and eases the path to citizenship for the hardworking people who take enormous risks to join our society.

[For Republicans or recalcitrant Democrats: If you fail to support human, comprehensive immigration reform, your name and face will be synonymous with images of honor students being forcibly torn from class, families ripped apart, and people killed by violence when they are forced to return to unstable places. I will make sure that you, [their name], are known for the cruelty and degradation that Donald Trump and Jefferson Sessions are planning to inflict upon immigrants.]

[For supportive Democrats: Thank you for supporting comprehensive immigration reform and protection for immigrants. Immigrants strength our society, and we must protect them as they are already a valuable part of our society. Protecting immigrants is standing up for human rights!]

Sincerely,
[Your Name]
Sincerely,
These aren't perfect talking points--I'm sure there's a lot I am missing, but I hope these points can be useful. Let's get to making contacts--we have to have the backs of immigrants in our society because it is their society too.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:59 AM on September 5, 2017 [116 favorites]


Quick update/encouragement for others: I tried the Resistbot for the first time today and found it pretty unwieldy and unsatisfying (one of my reps didn't have an active fax, so it just guided me through emailing, which I could have done on my own...). So I encourage people to call their reps if they can feel comfortable enough to do so--or send a postcard if not--and use one of the helpful scripts found here. Good luck to us all!
posted by TwoStride at 10:05 AM on September 5, 2017


Well, on the bright side this will hopefully kick congress in the ass and make them tackle immigration reform.
posted by cjorgensen at 10:08 AM on September 5, 2017


And then every Republican who voted for it is primaried on the basis of having voted for "amnesty" for illegal immigrants.

The Republican's vaunted lockstep is becoming irrelevant under the onslaught of tiny-handed normskrieg. Vote party line and still get primaried by crazier-than-thou. Just takes money.
posted by petebest at 10:11 AM on September 5, 2017


A thing that I learned recently, from what I consider to be a reliable source, is that there's software that congresspeople and senators use to track constituent contact, and it doesn't differentiate between voicemail and phone calls. So if you're more comfortable leaving a message than talking with a staffer, it's fine to call after business hours. Just make sure that you leave your name and address, so they know you're a constituent.

The other thing I learned is that the software flags frequent callers, and they often get ignored, so you probably shouldn't call more than about once a week.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 10:11 AM on September 5, 2017 [12 favorites]


Well, on the bright side this will hopefully kick congress in the ass and make them tackle immigration reform.

But Congress doesn't want to touch it with a 40 foot barge pole.

The biggest problem is the House. The Freedom Caucus is setting up for any showdown on Ryan's speakership should he deviate from the orthodoxy. They could possibly circulate a discharge petition to force it to the floor with moderate R help but still, you need 12 senators to override Senator Shitsain* filibustering the bill and you're not going to find them.

* Cruz, Rubio, Paul, McConnell, Cotton; take your pick, they'd all do it.
posted by Talez at 10:16 AM on September 5, 2017 [2 favorites]


Is there any way at all we an attach a DACA preservation bill to Hurricane Harvey (and oh god, possibly Irma) relief? (I say this not bc I think it will be a poison pill, but because somehow I still believe this will work, bc some Republicans don't want to do this and it will give them cover and because nobody could possibly try to stop it? Right? Please?)

This might be a stupid question -- I imagine not having control of Congress severely limits things. But I keep hearing that individual Senators have a stupid amount of power. Can the MeFites who are more knowledgeable than I chime in?

I know I might be grasping at straws. I just...I don't know what to do.
posted by schadenfrau at 10:18 AM on September 5, 2017 [3 favorites]


Two CHRLA sponsored events in LA this evening:

National DACA Mobilization Day rally at 5 p.m.
UndocuMedia, CHIRLA and the CA Dream Network will be holding a rally at Placita Olvera in downtown Los Angeles at 5 p.m.

Placita Olvera is located at 845 N Alameda Street in downtown Los Angeles.

DACA Healing Circle (for DACA recipients only) at 7 p.m.

CHIRLA will be holding a safe space for DACA recipients tonight at their L.A. offices to "lift up the spirits of individuals who have been affected by the decisions and treatment towards immigrant communities by this administration, provide an immediate safe space for those seeking companionship amongst those directly affected and encourage individuals to take part in support activities, conversations, and testimonies." This event is only open to DACA recipients and will run from 7 p.m. to 9 p.m.

CHIRLA is located at 2533 W. Third Street in the Westlake neighborhood.
posted by Room 641-A at 10:26 AM on September 5, 2017 [8 favorites]


They could possibly circulate a discharge petition to force it to the floor with moderate R help but still, you need 12 senators to override Senator Shitsain* filibustering the bill

It's worse than that, you need McConnell to affirmatively bring a DACA fix bill to the floor in the Senate unless it's attached to the debt ceiling or budget or something. McConnell can block DACA by himself, there's no equivalent to the long-shot discharge petition in the Senate.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:27 AM on September 5, 2017 [4 favorites]


I keep thinking about Frowner's recent post (that I can't find on my phone): this is evil. This man is evil. The things he's doing are evil. And Frowner is right, even being in proximity to this kind of evil is...contaminating.

I don't know what to do. I'm in NY; all of my representatives are pretty well convinced. I can call and ask them to blow up the Senate until evil is rolled back a bit, and that's what I'll do. I'll show up at a protest later today. I'll contact my city council dude and ask what they're doing for Dreamers in my city. I'm sure all of that will give me more to do.

I just...fuck.
posted by schadenfrau at 10:27 AM on September 5, 2017 [38 favorites]


Trump retweeted from The Trump Train‏ @The_Trump_Train:

Make no mistake, we are going to put the interest of AMERICAN CITIZENS FIRST! The forgotten men & women will no longer be forgotten.

Seriously, fuck this guy.

I just emailed the admin of the college where I work and asked what they are going to do to support students who might be DACA beneficiaries.
posted by dhens at 10:28 AM on September 5, 2017 [23 favorites]


I just emailed the admin of the college where I work and asked what they are going to do to support students who might be DACA beneficiaries.
This is a question that everyone in education needs to ask. And honestly, I think we also need to be discussing this outside of official channels, in case we need to go beyond what the administration is willing or legally able to do.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 10:30 AM on September 5, 2017 [15 favorites]


Trump Wishes Dreamers Luck as He Tosses Them Out of the Plane (Josh Marshall, TPM)
What Trump is actually doing is designed not to get a good outcome but rather to avoid blame for a bad outcome. That’s a major difference. Indeed, the way he’s going about it makes getting a legislative fix much harder. Now Democrats will rightly see any negotiations with the President on this front as negotiation with a bad actor. It’s not much better for the GOP. The real legislative problem here is on the Republican side. This triggers as significant intra-party fight under duress. No Republican leaders can be happy about that. Let’s hope they can make something happen. But the President’s approach is designed to make such an effort fail.
Another instance of The Jackass trying to save his own bacon by screwing over people he "works" over with.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 10:31 AM on September 5, 2017 [35 favorites]


It's lunchtime. Bacon Cheeseburger press conference!
posted by fluttering hellfire at 10:38 AM on September 5, 2017


Our university president sent a message over the weekend, in advance of the decision, that I find heartening:
Dear ASU Community:

Whatever decision the President makes regarding DACA, these are the basic principles that we have and will continue to follow.

We are committed to the success of all of our students and in particular our students from high schools in Arizona.

DACA students at ASU are young adults who have graduated from an Arizona high school who meet our admission requirements. We are mandated to educate all Arizona students at a cost as close to free as possible. We do this.

When the Arizona Constitution was ratified, there was no mandate to draw distinctions between students or to do anything other than please educate “all the children of the state.” At the time much of the state was made up of immigrants (of all classifications) and bi-nationals, Mexican Americans reflecting their new national home after the war between the US and Mexico. In fact, a close read of history, and the Arizona constitution, shows Arizona’s founders clearly intended that we just get everybody educated.

This is in fact what we intend to do. We are going to educate students from Arizona and in doing so we will follow the law, however that is expressed. We will at the same time, within the law, do everything we possibly can do to help young people move their lives forward – regardless of the circumstances that brought them to this country.

In any event, all of this is rather easy at the end of the day. Care for children, show them love and respect, prepare them for the future and help them start their lives. If we can do that, then we will have done our part for tomorrow to be a better day.

We will have more to say after the President announces his decision.
posted by Superplin at 10:38 AM on September 5, 2017 [77 favorites]


Just heard some right-wing hack on NPR crying crocodile tears for the poor immigrants who have waited and are waiting in line for their green cards. I screamed at the radio for the host to ask her if they are so concerned about them, why the GOP was trying to cut those people out, too.
posted by Mental Wimp at 10:43 AM on September 5, 2017 [15 favorites]


what does Trump think Congress should do?

Trump thinks Congress (and everyone else) should stop bothering him so he can go play golf.
posted by Melismata at 10:46 AM on September 5, 2017 [22 favorites]


Senator Portman's office idiots are impressively brainwashed as I just learned from today's round of call-making. Their stance today: well it only happened an hour ago so how could he possibly have an opinion about it? Eyes. So. Rolled. Waiting to see how much cash it'll take to buy his relevant vote this time. Kaptur and Sherrod Brown are, of course, on the Side of Good.
posted by bitter-girl.com at 10:47 AM on September 5, 2017 [4 favorites]


Just as with taxes, when the Republicans talk immigration "reform" they mean "cuts".

When they say they support legal immigration they're simply lying. They want a Fortress America with all the borders 100% closed (well, to poor people anyway, rich people are always welcome to come or go).
posted by sotonohito at 10:47 AM on September 5, 2017 [6 favorites]


Trump's law: Anything destructive that the president can unilaterally do, Trump will do.

Coming up next: leaving NAFTA, bombing N. Korea.
posted by Omon Ra at 10:49 AM on September 5, 2017 [4 favorites]


Trump thinks Congress (and everyone else) should stop bothering him so he can go play golf.

Very easily arranged.

I hereby resign the office of the President of the United States.
posted by Devonian at 10:54 AM on September 5, 2017 [17 favorites]


And so: what does Trump think Congress should do?
posted by cjelli at 10:42 AM on September 5 [1 favorite +] [!]


The problem is that Trump is unwilling to exert the intellectual effort it would take to understand the problem in enough depth to make a recommendation. We have a lazy, greedy, narcissistic man-child as President*, and no Republican, especially the gormless Marco Rubio, is going to admit it in public.
posted by Mental Wimp at 10:56 AM on September 5, 2017 [17 favorites]


Sarah Sanders is so busy telling us how terrible President Obama was, she said "President Obama" when she meant "President Trump" and had to be corrected that President Obama did not just end DACA.
posted by zachlipton at 10:58 AM on September 5, 2017 [37 favorites]


had to be corrected that President Obama did not just end DACA.

Um, like how President Obama failed to act during Katrina?
posted by TwoStride at 11:00 AM on September 5, 2017 [9 favorites]


Meanwhile, Rep. Steve King wets the bed as usual: (RWW, reporting on Breitbart)

I’m making this point that if we shut off the DACA program, and there are 800,000 of them in the United States today, they would deploy—and I use that word that way—back to their home territories, most likely. And they would go back there with a U.S. taxpayer-funded education, many of them the college education, they will have top-notch English skills, they would understand how a free-enterprise economy works, how a generally corrupt-free society, first world works. They would have seen the transportation system we have, the educational system, the research and development systems that we have, how a civilized people interact with each other. All of that would go with them back to their home countries, and wouldn’t that be the best economic and cultural development, civilizational development that, say, Mexico could ever experience?
posted by delfin at 11:02 AM on September 5, 2017 [16 favorites]


His base already thinks 9/11, the '08 financial crisis, and Katrina were all Obama's fault. This isn't a big stretch from there.
posted by cmfletcher at 11:03 AM on September 5, 2017 [2 favorites]




It's clear that the administration recognizes that its head has no talent for or interest in the details to fix the problem DACA solved, and so is kicking it to Congress, at the same time it whips it for being incompetent to fix it. It's an M. C. Escher-style logical structure. They excoriate Obama for signing DACA into effect, neglecting to mention it was Congress's incompetence/cowardice that forced his hand in the first place.
posted by Mental Wimp at 11:04 AM on September 5, 2017 [2 favorites]


how a civilized people interact with each other.

Jesus wept. Fuck you in the eye, Steve King.
posted by adamgreenfield at 11:04 AM on September 5, 2017 [73 favorites]


If only the President had some kind of power to, i dunno, pardon those who who were technically in violation of some law or other but who hadn't done any harm and were actually of benefit to the nation.

That would be great.
posted by allthinky at 11:05 AM on September 5, 2017 [26 favorites]


His base already thinks 9/11, the '08 financial crisis, and Katrina were all Obama's fault. This isn't a big stretch from there.

also: vietnam, the russian revolution, the american civil war, and the film ishtar
posted by entropicamericana at 11:09 AM on September 5, 2017 [12 favorites]


Oh, also. This nasty bit of pig-ignorant exceptionalism:
They would have seen the transportation system we have...

...this drives me crazy. Of all the places I've lived in my adult life, American cities rank near the bottom in ease of getting around and getting between, particularly if you interpret "transportation system" to mean what it sure as shit prima facie appears to. Fuck you even more, Steve King.
posted by adamgreenfield at 11:09 AM on September 5, 2017 [50 favorites]


You'd almost think Steve King was a white supremacist or something.
posted by diogenes at 11:12 AM on September 5, 2017 [90 favorites]


Okay go with me here:

The Tremendous Act

Whereas America is just the best country, really, the best absolutely. We're going to kick out the bad hombres right now, and make sure everyone gets the coverage they need way better than Obama. I hereby resign the office of the President of the United States.

The electoral college win, against all odds okay, was the hugest in history by a very very wide margin.

____________________ (Signature)
posted by petebest at 11:13 AM on September 5, 2017 [47 favorites]


"It's not cold-hearted to follow the law." - Sarah Huckabee Sanders

Monsters.
posted by Rust Moranis at 11:14 AM on September 5, 2017 [46 favorites]


Sanders has now repeatedly said that members of Congress should act or "get out of the way and let someone else" do immigration reform. Which, as a talking point, is either calling on her own party to go, or is calling for the institution of another form of government.

Meanwhile, there's talk in Congress that they might just try to tie to the debt ceiling to Harvey relief and throw both on the floor this week, which seems like a great way to start a total civil war in the GOP caucus.
posted by zachlipton at 11:15 AM on September 5, 2017 [16 favorites]


"It's not cold-hearted to follow the law." - Sarah Huckabee Sanders

Was that a Pontius Pilate quote?
posted by petebest at 11:16 AM on September 5, 2017 [70 favorites]


"It's not cold-hearted to follow the law." - Sarah Huckabee Sanders

Monsters.


It's like they think if they just reword "I was just following orders" we'll all be fooled.
posted by schadenfrau at 11:17 AM on September 5, 2017 [88 favorites]


Sanders has now repeatedly said that members of Congress should act or "get out of the way and let someone else" do immigration reform.

You know, "someone else". Like, say, the chief executive. Who claimed absolute authority over immigration a few months back.
posted by Etrigan at 11:18 AM on September 5, 2017 [19 favorites]


Was that a Pontius Pilate quote?

Pilate at Nuremberg, maybe.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 11:19 AM on September 5, 2017 [24 favorites]


You know, "someone else". Like, say, the chief executive.

Yeah, that's what she's talking about. The separation of powers is just so annoying and inconvenient when you're trying to create a fascist dictatorship.
posted by diogenes at 11:20 AM on September 5, 2017 [4 favorites]


Continuing the tradition of creating straw men to argue with, Sarah Hucksterbee Sanders says they've talked with both sides, the other side being described as "those who want to keep the situation the way it is." No one wants DACA, not even the DACA people. They want a permanent status, which DACA doesn't provide. Assholes.
posted by Mental Wimp at 11:20 AM on September 5, 2017 [14 favorites]


>they would understand... how a generally corrupt-free society, first world works.

I don't even have the heart to laugh at this. I do not have it in me.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 11:21 AM on September 5, 2017 [17 favorites]


...they would understand how a free-enterprise economy works, how a generally corrupt-free society, first world works.

Well, they would understand how easily such a society fails when people of bad faith like Steve King and Donald Trump are given responsibility for it.
posted by Mental Wimp at 11:24 AM on September 5, 2017 [4 favorites]


You know, "someone else". Like, say, the chief executive. Who claimed absolute authority over immigration a few months back.

So the administration's position is: we're revoking DACA not because it's a bad system but because the president doesn't have to power to set up that system on his own, but also the people it helped are bad and stole jobs from Americans, and if Congress doesn't put together a bill to fix the mess that revoking DACA creates the president will have to act on his own to set up some kind of new system?
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 11:24 AM on September 5, 2017 [3 favorites]


what does Trump think Congress should do?

Stop looking into Russian ties to his campaign and election interference. But good luck with that.

Politico: Russia Probes Kick Into High Gear. Three congressional committees are pursuing investigations, and high-ranking Trump associates are expected to testify soon.
In the coming weeks, both intelligence committees are expected to conduct closed-door interviews with high-ranking members of the Trump campaign, and potential witnesses could include Michael Cohen, Paul Manafort and Donald Trump Jr.{...}

The return of the congressional Russia probes also means the return of a phenomenon that has reportedly enraged Trump and caused him to lash out at GOP leaders: constant headlines about the latest incremental developments in these sprawling and unwieldy investigations.

There will be the daily, sometimes hourly, leaks about new witnesses, new lines of inquiry. There will be ominous cable news footage of lawmakers and witnesses disappearing into classified briefing rooms. And there will be grandstanding and bickering among members of Congress in both parties, many of them trying to capitalize on the Russia investigations to further their own political ambitions.
And of course the Kremlin will be happy to throw fuel on that fire, if only to maximize chaos in US politics.
posted by Doktor Zed at 11:25 AM on September 5, 2017 [33 favorites]


This may have been posted already but I'm just now getting around to watching it. This may be the purest exercise of narcissism I've ever seen. Trump is literally prodding these people to praise him, one after the other. And a roomfull of alleged men & women of God bow down to his graven image to give him the drug that sustains him. Unspeakably vile. Watch as Trump Calls On A Bunch of Religious Leaders to Thank Him For His Harvey Efforts.
posted by scalefree at 11:33 AM on September 5, 2017 [10 favorites]


Steve King, I live in your district, you have fucking ZERO ground to stand on talking up transportation systems because ours suck here and your buddies at the state level are gutting the education system.
posted by jason_steakums at 11:35 AM on September 5, 2017 [10 favorites]


And keep in mind that Putin isn't Trump's best friend, rather a canny political operator who is looking towards his own survival and political future first, Russia's second, and everyone else's not at all.

Can we do away with the notion that he's so canny?

If he were, he never would have lost Ukraine.
posted by ocschwar at 11:41 AM on September 5, 2017 [1 favorite]


"It's not cold-hearted to follow the law." - Sarah Huckabee Sanders

That no one in the press said loudly and clearly that Jim Crow was once law is the latest in a series of appalling derelictions of their duty to the country.
posted by zombieflanders at 11:41 AM on September 5, 2017 [106 favorites]


Can we do away with the notion that he's so canny?

In the country of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
posted by contraption at 11:43 AM on September 5, 2017 [1 favorite]


Boston MeFites: The MIRA Coalition is holding a rally tonight at the State House. I know MIRA through my AmeriCorps Service Year. They are a legit organization who do important work.

Tomorrow night, Centro Presente is holding a vigil for DACA at the State House. I'm less familiar with Centro Presente but they seem to do good work.

If you're in college, if you work at a college, or if you're an alumni, call your school and ask them what they're doing to protect Dreamers enrolled at the school. I've seen a few of my Twitter friends calling their schools, and this seems like a good effort if you've already called your reps.
posted by pxe2000 at 11:45 AM on September 5, 2017 [9 favorites]


There's another DACA rally planned for Boston Common on Sept. 16.
posted by adamg at 11:48 AM on September 5, 2017 [7 favorites]


Here's the best response to yesterday's linked "Are Baby Boomers A ‘Generation Of Sociopaths’?"...

The generation game
Despite the evidence that it makes no sense, typecasting generations is more popular than ever


The worst thing you can say about the Boomer generation is it gave us Donald Trump and never thought to have him thrown in jail or exiled to Siberia.
posted by oneswellfoop at 11:54 AM on September 5, 2017 [6 favorites]


President Obama's statement:
Ultimately, this is about basic decency. This is about whether we are a people who kick hopeful young strivers out of America, or whether we treat them the way we’d want our own kids to be treated. It’s about who we are as a people – and who we want to be.

What makes us American is not a question of what we look like, or where our names come from, or the way we pray. What makes us American is our fidelity to a set of ideals – that all of us are created equal; that all of us deserve the chance to make of our lives what we will; that all of us share an obligation to stand up, speak out, and secure our most cherished values for the next generation. That’s how America has traveled this far. That’s how, if we keep at it, we will ultimately reach that more perfect union.
posted by zachlipton at 11:54 AM on September 5, 2017 [105 favorites]


So at this moment, Trump is calling on Congress, the same Congress that just failed to pass a health care bill that a majority has made the heart of their campaign promises for the past seven years, to rewrite the tax code and rewrite the immigration system at the same time it has to raise the debit ceiling, keep the government from shutting down, reauthorize CHIP, reauthorize the FAA, fund Harvey relief, quite possibly fund Irma relief, reauthorize the flood insurance program, and they're still talking about a bipartisan effort to fund the CSRs. How the hell is any of this supposed to happen?

One of the striking things here is the total abdication of leadership from the White House on any of these issues. For tax cuts, Gary Cohn wrote a few bullet points on a napkin, but now the President is mad at him. For immigration, their entire story is just "Congress needs to act." These are not serious people and they have zero interest or ability in actually doing the work of governing. I'm taking about basic stuff like putting forward policy proposals, working with key members of Congress to get them on board, and doing public events where you tout the benefits of your policy to build support. No, that all sounds like hard work, so these ignorant fucknuts just set a time bomb instead and declare that a demonstrably incompetent Congress should figure it out themselves. For people who profess to care so much about the rule of law, they sure as hell show zero interest in helping to write some.
posted by zachlipton at 11:58 AM on September 5, 2017 [69 favorites]


Trump is literally prodding these people to praise him, one after the other.

The worst part is that at first I was sure which example you were taking about.
posted by Room 641-A at 11:59 AM on September 5, 2017 [5 favorites]


Apropos of nothing: many Doonesbury comics about Trump have been meh lately, but Sunday's was right on.
posted by Melismata at 11:59 AM on September 5, 2017 [9 favorites]


He has been a Republican for his entire period in office, spewing vile bigotry, and the Republicans have never ejected him, never censured him, never rejected him.

They all trekked to his district in 2012 and in 2016 to receive his racist blessing. They didn't just never reject him, every Republican Presidential nominee bent over backwards to kiss his ass in public and signal how much they approved of his racist agenda.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:00 PM on September 5, 2017 [28 favorites]


For a second there I considered that maybe 45 was dumping all this shit on Congress at once in the hopes of making them too busy to continue the Russia administration. It's just dumb enough to fit his patterns.

But then I remembered that would mean 45 has an actual goal and a strategy in mind and there's not much evidence to support he can do that sort of thing.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 12:02 PM on September 5, 2017 [6 favorites]


i can't believe the "laws" of "society" prevent me from setting as many fires as need to be set
posted by poffin boffin at 12:04 PM on September 5, 2017 [40 favorites]


These are not serious people and they have zero interest or ability in actually doing the work of governing. I'm taking about basic stuff like putting forward policy proposals, working with key members of Congress to get them on board, and doing public events where you tout the benefits of your policy to build support.

All part of the long game. Once government no longer functions and the society itself crumbles, the cyberpunk megacorps step in to provide basic services, and (not to mix my genres here) at the end we will lay our freedom at their feet, and we will say to them, "Make us your slaves, but feed us."
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 12:17 PM on September 5, 2017 [3 favorites]


Apropos of nothing: many Doonesbury comics about Trump have been meh lately, but Sunday's was right on.

https://twitter.com/RealRBHJr
posted by ZeusHumms at 12:22 PM on September 5, 2017 [6 favorites]


and declare that a demonstrably incompetent Congress should figure it out themselves.

Well, that part's right...
posted by Melismata at 12:25 PM on September 5, 2017


These are not serious people and they have zero interest or ability in actually doing the work of governing. I'm taking about basic stuff like putting forward policy proposals, working with key members of Congress to get them on board, and doing public events where you tout the benefits of your policy to build support.

All part of the long game.


Any time you find yourself talking about Trump and using the term "long game," remind yourself that by the time he reaches the end of most compound sentences he's already forgotten the beginning of them.
posted by leotrotsky at 12:26 PM on September 5, 2017 [62 favorites]


Any time you find yourself talking about Trump and using the term "long game," remind yourself that by the time he reaches the end of most compound sentences he's already forgotten the beginning of them

...and then repeated a superlative phrase, repeated it again, and added "believe me," which indicates he's lying.
posted by Gelatin at 12:31 PM on September 5, 2017 [22 favorites]


But then I remembered that would mean 45 has an actual goal and a strategy in mind and there's not much evidence to support he can do that sort of thing.

I've seen this kind of thing in many comments in the mega-threads, and I think it's becoming dangerous. One commentor poured derision over the idea that Trump was capable of atempting to create a distraction by posting controversial tweets, since that is supposedly beyond the capacity of his limited brain. Trump is not that bright, compared to Obama, but he's clearly capable of goal-directed activity.
posted by thelonius at 12:45 PM on September 5, 2017 [6 favorites]


He does outsmart Ali G, I'll give him that.

Edit: better link
posted by Rumple at 12:48 PM on September 5, 2017 [3 favorites]


Louise Linton (Mnunchin's wife) wanted to apologize for her Instagram post...by posing in multiple gowns for the "Balls and Galas" issue of Washington Life magazine. She does at least acknowledge what she's doing: "I see the irony of making an apology in a ball gown," but then launches right into "but it would be dishonest to proclaim that I'm never going to go to another social function." [this is all, very sadly, real]
posted by zachlipton at 12:53 PM on September 5, 2017 [8 favorites]


He does outsmart Ali G, I'll give him that.

Edit: better link
posted by Rumple at 12:48 PM on September 5 [2 favorites −] Favorite added! [!]


Takes a grifter to spot a grifter.
posted by Mental Wimp at 12:54 PM on September 5, 2017 [3 favorites]


There are thousands of people who were brought to America as young children, who were given work permits by the Federal Government under DACA, who are employed and contribute to society in general, and whose employers now have to question not only whether they will be in legal jeopardy for employing an unlawful immigrant in March, but whether their employee will be deported in March, and whether they should avoid the problem by replacing their employee as soon as possible. Meanwhile, the immigrants have to fear being sent away from the only home they've ever known, to a country where many of them do not speak the language. It's pure evil.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:54 PM on September 5, 2017 [43 favorites]


he's clearly capable of goal-directed activity.

Kinda depends on how you're defining the goal. He's absolutely capable of engaging in activities directed towards his goals of public adulation, obedience, and a cargo cult version of respect. I'm less convinced that he's able to conceive of what it would take to achieve a more complicated goal. That's not to say he hasn't got some people around him who are willing to take that project on, though. He's surrounded himself with some pretty stupid people, but some of their goals, such as "break everything" and "create chaos" don't really take genius to carry out.
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:55 PM on September 5, 2017 [10 favorites]


The Trump administration has said definitively that DACA is unconstitutional, but not so unconstitutional that they can't keep it going for six months in the interests of human decency. If six months is acceptable, why not sixteen months, when we might have a Congress more capable of passing a humane law to replace it? Why not maintain the policy indefinitely until it is ruled unconstitutional, or Congress passes a law forbidding it or replacing it? (It is because the Trump administration consists of terrible people!)
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:58 PM on September 5, 2017 [24 favorites]


The Trump administration has said definitively that DACA is unconstitutional, but not so unconstitutional that they can't keep it going for six months

Uh huh. If they were so sure about that, they could have let Texas' lawsuit against it go forward, confident in the SCOTUS to rule in their favor. The fact that they wouldn't shows how hollow they believe that argument is.
posted by Gelatin at 1:03 PM on September 5, 2017 [9 favorites]


Sorry if there's a better open thread to put this in -- I've fallen behind on my MeFi-ing over the past few days:

Gen. Robert E. Lee descendant leaves pulpit after backlash
"A faction of church members were concerned about my speech and that I lifted up Black Lives Matter movement, the Women's March, and Heather Heyer as examples of racial justice work," his resignation statement said. "I want to stress that there were many in the congregation who supported my right to free speech, yet were uncomfortable with the attention the church was receiving. [...]

"I want to especially challenge white Christians in America to take seriously the deadly legacy of slavery in our country and commit ourselves to follow Jesus into a time of deep reflection, repentance and reconciliation," he wrote in his statement.
posted by tonycpsu at 1:11 PM on September 5, 2017 [89 favorites]


The Independent: Russian politician says 'let's hit Trump with our Kompromat' on state TV
A Russian politician has threatened to "hit Donald Trump with our Kompromat" on state TV.

Speaking on Russia-24, Nikita Isaev, leader of the far-right New Russia Movement, said the compromising material should be released in retaliation over the closure of several Russian diplomatic compounds across the US.

When asked whether Russia has such material, Mr Isaev, who is also director of the Russian Institute of Contemporary Economics, replied: "Of course we have it!"
posted by zachlipton at 1:15 PM on September 5, 2017 [60 favorites]


ohpleaseohpleaseohplease
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:17 PM on September 5, 2017 [23 favorites]


"I see the irony of making an apology in a ball gown,"


That's not just irony I'm seeing...
posted by darkstar at 1:17 PM on September 5, 2017 [8 favorites]


Sarah Huckabee Sanders was asked what the status of more than 300 DREAMers currently serving in the military will be if Congress doesn't act, and her response was that Congress is totally capable of acting and they should do so, which does not seem like much of an answer to me.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:18 PM on September 5, 2017 [4 favorites]


Cry "Havoc!" and let slip the vids of pee.
posted by Behemoth at 1:19 PM on September 5, 2017 [28 favorites]


Gee, maybe she doesn't know what she's doing either, imagine that.
posted by Melismata at 1:19 PM on September 5, 2017 [12 favorites]


Speaking on Russia-24, Nikita Isaev, leader of the far-right New Russia Movement, said the compromising material should be released in retaliation over the closure of several Russian diplomatic compounds across the US.

Despite Raw Story referring to him as a "lawmaker", it doesn't appear that Nikita Isaev has been elected to anything, and nor have any members of his party. I would suggest ignoring this story.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:27 PM on September 5, 2017 [7 favorites]


On this day where Trump is setting up a million young people for deportation he was just on camera reading a prepared statement about tax reform. At the end he deviated from the statement and said something along the lines of "and of course when I say tax reform I mean tax cuts". Yeah dude we know but you're not supposed to say it.

Not a big thing given the DACA decision but still a measure of how stupid he is.
posted by Justinian at 1:35 PM on September 5, 2017 [30 favorites]


Trump is not that bright, compared to Obama, but he's clearly capable of goal-directed activity.

He's an instinctual predator, but that doesn't mean he isn't effective.
posted by schadenfrau at 1:35 PM on September 5, 2017 [6 favorites]


As an aside there was a pretty spectacular meteor strike in southern British Columbia last night and I, for one, would like to welcome our new alien ant overlords. Given the walking distance resulting from, what I can only guess is a deliberate attempt at misinformation and not an astrophysics calculation error, I await their arrival in D.C. sometime between Canadian Thanksgiving and American Thanksgiving.

Only then will our long [inter]national nightmare be over. Godspeed you little horrors.
posted by mce at 1:37 PM on September 5, 2017 [12 favorites]


Takes a grifter to spot a grifter.

Nitpick: Or someone who's been victimized by grifters enough times to finally recognize the common patterns, assuming learning can still happen...

But then I remembered that would mean 45 has an actual goal and a strategy in mind and there's not much evidence to support he can do that sort of thing.


Isn't it just painfully obvious by now Trump isn't ever going to be held to any standards of decency or competence because he really is pretty much a perfect mirror of where American society as a whole is right now? He's *the guy* for the 25--30% who live in and around the boundaries of statistical noise and margin of error. He knows how to work in that cultural space because he's a native, himself little more than a cultural feedback monster, just as fickle, opportunistic, self-serving and amoral as contemporary American society as a whole. He's not being strategic when he sows chaos, he's just tactically creating the kind of chaotic playing field sociopaths/psychopaths are well known to have an instinctive advantage in manipulating for personal gain. It doesn't take strategy to create chaos and then start looking for opportunities to benefit personally from the fallout. Those kinds of moves are tactical and don't take any special genius, just callousness and an exaggerated sense of one's own self righteousness. Even the most dully conventional and incompetent crisis manager in the business world knows how to use these tricks to survive and thrive.
posted by saulgoodman at 1:38 PM on September 5, 2017 [20 favorites]


Despite Raw Story referring to him as a "lawmaker", it doesn't appear that Nikita Isaev has been elected to anything, and nor have any members of his party. I would suggest ignoring this story.

Yeah I don't think random Russian politicians would have access to Trump's Kompromat. But the Spectator's Paul Wood says he's been hearing about it from sources he feels are more reliable:
“There are, though, reports of witnesses in the hotel who corroborate Steele’s reporting. These include an American who’s said to have seen a row with the hotel security over whether the hookers would be allowed up to Trump’s suite. The dossier’s account of hookers in a Moscow hotel room was the subject of gossip among politicians and intelligence people for months before it was published.”
[...]
“Now claims are circulating of more tapes showing more extreme behavior. Expect these allegations to emerge in due course,” Wood continued.
(Indirect quote, original behind paywall)
posted by scalefree at 1:38 PM on September 5, 2017 [9 favorites]


Matt Shuham (TPM): [Rep. Luis Gutiérrez (D-IL)] Lashes Out After DACA Move: John Kelly Is ‘A Disgrace To The Uniform
“General Kelly, when he was the head of Homeland Security, lied straight to the faces of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus about preventing the mass deportation of DREAMers,” Gutiérrez wrote in a statement Tuesday. “Now as Chief of Staff, this former general is executing the plan to take away their lifeline and taking steps to criminalize young people who live and work here legally.”

“General Kelly is a hypocrite who is a disgrace to the uniform he used to wear,” he continued. “He has no honor and should be drummed out of the White House along with the white supremacists and those enabling the President’s actions by ‘just following orders.’”
The article contains his entire accurate, courageous, and principled statement.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 1:52 PM on September 5, 2017 [121 favorites]


Whaaa... Diane Feinstein is talking about putting both Harvey relief AND DACA into the debt ceiling bill. I guess she's only garbage on some issues. I knew that but it's still nice to see.
posted by Justinian at 2:09 PM on September 5, 2017 [21 favorites]


I'm sure Diane will find a way to disappoint in the end :-/
posted by waitangi at 2:14 PM on September 5, 2017 [12 favorites]


Here's some background on Kelly playing Lucy to Clarke's Charlie Brown: Sheriff Clarke Was In Talks for a Trump White House Job—Then John Kelly Killed It.
posted by scalefree at 2:14 PM on September 5, 2017 [8 favorites]


Vox, Sarah Kliff, This is what Obamacare sabotage looks like, on the failure to promote the ACA. One important issue is that, while outside groups can do a lot on their own, only the government has the list of people who have previously enrolled in plans. That list is incredibly valuable, since people who've previously enrolled are likely to enroll again. Outside groups can raise awareness, but only the government can market specifically to that list.

Lawfare, Benjamin Wittes, How to Read a News Story About an Investigation: Eight Tips on Who Is Saying What. An excellent set of guidelines for untangling sourcing claims in news articles, with helpful tips like:
Dirty little secret: It’s a common tactic for defense lawyers to put material out there in a fashion favorable to their clients and to make sure the sourcing is suggestive of an improper prosecutorial leak—and then complain publicly about prosecutorial leaks. This happens a lot.
Daily Beast, Lachlan/Swin, Sheriff Clarke Was In Talks for a Trump White House Job—Then John Kelly Killed It. I'll just jump to the end:
A political group seeking to draft Clarke into that Senate race has raised nearly $2 million, according to Federal Election Commission records. But Clarke says he has no plans to challenge Baldwin, and has disavowed the group. “It’s a scam PAC, really,” he told a Milwaukee news station in July.

His disinclination to doing so was on full display at the well-attended, cash-bar CPAC party hosted by the aforementioned draft-Clarke PAC. As the event got underway, The Daily Beast saw multiple organizers scrambling to figure out why Clarke was late to arrive. Eventually, the sheriff showed up and muttered a few words before leaving.

The Daily Beast was later told by two people who had run into him earlier that evening that shortly before his brief speech, Clarke had been spotted down at the hotel bar, in full Sheriff gear, holding court with two tall, attractive women.
posted by zachlipton at 2:17 PM on September 5, 2017 [16 favorites]


About that kompromat - does anyone think it would actually matter at this point? Short of something that's criminally prosecutable in the US, or something that shows culpability that could kick off a swarm of lawsuits, I can't imagine any personal failing that would actually undermine his authority.

The people supporting him are doing so because it furthers their agenda, not because they believe he's a competent leader.

It would rather be nice to see his hotel income take a solid dive, which might be affected by proof of sleaze, but that wouldn't directly affect his gov't status. I mean, it could kick off another wave of resignations and roadblocks, but it's not like we don't expect those to happen; we just don't know what the next trigger will be.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 2:18 PM on September 5, 2017 [16 favorites]


About that kompromat - does anyone think it would actually matter at this point?

One can only hope that turning him into an international laughingstock would bust his brittle, insecure brain like a cheap piñata.
posted by zarq at 2:21 PM on September 5, 2017 [21 favorites]


He's already an international laughingstock and it has accomplished fuckall.
posted by fluffy battle kitten at 2:24 PM on September 5, 2017 [37 favorites]


About that kompromat - does anyone think it would actually matter at this point?

Pee tape, no. Decades of money laundering or proof of knowing collusion in the election, yes.
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:25 PM on September 5, 2017 [31 favorites]




He's already an international laughingstock and it has accomplished fuckall.

According to Devil's Bargain, Trump and Bannon share a "honey badger" mentality, meaning, among other things, they idealize refusing to stop no matter how dirty they look.
posted by Coventry at 2:32 PM on September 5, 2017 [1 favorite]


bust his brittle, insecure brain like a cheap piñata.

I'm a broken record on this I know, but if the diagnosis of malignant narcissism is correct, this is absolutely not going to happen. In that case, he literally cannot personally identify with insecurity and shame, no matter how extreme or public. He'll just burrow even deeper into his narcissism and dissociation from what should be his own natural guilt and healthy shame and project the responsibility for the failures onto others.
posted by saulgoodman at 2:33 PM on September 5, 2017 [22 favorites]


Dianne Feinstein. Not Diane.

Spelled like it sounds.
posted by petebest at 2:34 PM on September 5, 2017 [2 favorites]


David Frum, who is a horrible person, in The Atlantic: Trump's Impending Immigration Sell-Out

Spoiler: Ending DACA is bad because Trump will be forced to back down and even more immigrants will be allowed into the US.
posted by Joe in Australia at 2:38 PM on September 5, 2017 [4 favorites]


That Frum article is something else: "Today’s quotas for lawful immigration were bequeathed nearly three decades ago—meanwhile stagnating wages for the lower 90 percent of the workforce suggest that the United States is suffering from the most severe labor glut since the Great Depression."

Apparently wages have stagnated because we have too many workers, not because the top 1% has been leeching all the profits.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 2:44 PM on September 5, 2017 [48 favorites]


Pee tape, no. Decades of money laundering or proof of knowing collusion in the election, yes.

CONSPIRACY in the election. Collusion is not a crime. Conspiracy is!
posted by mikelieman at 2:44 PM on September 5, 2017 [5 favorites]


conspeeracy, iyw
posted by prize bull octorok at 2:45 PM on September 5, 2017 [6 favorites]


I've a cousin named Diane, thus my spelling. Maybe I'll use it in the way I call Tomi Lahren Tammy or Tamantha.
posted by waitangi at 2:47 PM on September 5, 2017 [1 favorite]


I did say, short of criminal/civil lawsuit activity. If the kompromat could put him as a defendant in a courtroom, whether or not that's a legitimate action to take against a sitting president, then it could actually matter. But there is no amount of shameful activity, or even "criminal in another country" activity, that I think would have any impact beyond adding to the general anarchy and shortening the timeline until President Pence steps in to announce he's going to "bring order out of chaos."
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 2:49 PM on September 5, 2017 [1 favorite]


Morning Consult/ Politico poll: 76% say DACA recipients should remain (58% say they should become citizens, 18% that they should get residency). 15% say they should be deported.
posted by Rust Moranis at 2:59 PM on September 5, 2017 [41 favorites]


When you can't keep the full crazification factor...
posted by phearlez at 3:06 PM on September 5, 2017 [24 favorites]


Bruce Bartlett, a former Reagan senior official weighs in on the percentage that are deplorable.

@michaeljhout
Wow. A former Reagan/Bush advisor just posted this on Facebook.. [screenshot]
There is no longer any doubt -- ALL (100%) of Trump supporters are racists. If you don't like it, fuck you.
posted by chris24 at 3:11 PM on September 5, 2017 [124 favorites]


That Frum article is something else: "Today’s quotas for lawful immigration were bequeathed nearly three decades ago—meanwhile stagnating wages for the lower 90 percent of the workforce suggest that the United States is suffering from the most severe labor glut since the Great Depression."

Apparently wages have stagnated because we have too many workers, not because the top 1% has been leeching all the profits.


It is actually true that we have too many workers. And you know why? Because monetary policy ensures that we do. It has nothing to do with immigration and everything to do with preventing wage increases out of fear of inflation. If the economy gets too 'hot' (ie..labor gets too much power via demand) they raise rates.
posted by srboisvert at 3:21 PM on September 5, 2017 [6 favorites]


Nice to see Reagan Republicans admit what we've been telling them for over two years, now how about admitting that Clinton was the right choice and campaigning against Republican candidates. You get no credit for the first without following through with the second. Words mean nothing, only actions.
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:21 PM on September 5, 2017 [7 favorites]


Posted last night, and apparently, he's enjoying swatting trolls away in the shitstorm his page has been ever since.
posted by notyou at 3:22 PM on September 5, 2017 [2 favorites]


Republicans need to understand that if you spend years shitting on the carpet, you are not allowed to complain about the stains. They made this mess and they need to have their noses rubbed in it.
posted by 0xFCAF at 3:25 PM on September 5, 2017 [14 favorites]


Nice to see Reagan Republicans admit what we've been telling them for over two years, now how about admitting that Clinton was the right choice and campaigning against Republican candidates. You get no credit for the first without following through with the second. Words mean nothing, only actions.

Bartlett supported Clinton, one of the few who took the NeverTrump stance to its logical conclusion and voted for the only candidate who could stop him.

@BruceBartlett
For the record, I voted enthusiastically for Hillary Clinton today. She may not be perfect, but she's light years better than Trump.
posted by chris24 at 3:25 PM on September 5, 2017 [59 favorites]


You lie down with Republicans, you wake up with racists and trolls.
posted by oneswellfoop at 3:25 PM on September 5, 2017 [10 favorites]


Oh sure. Now's a great time to add repealing Obamacare in the next month to Congress's massive list of stuff they have to get done right now.
posted by zachlipton at 3:26 PM on September 5, 2017 [3 favorites]




So, I think it's time to compile a list of companies that rent space in Trump-branded properties.
posted by rhizome at 3:32 PM on September 5, 2017 [32 favorites]


@AndrewBeatty
Trump showed a twinge of sensitivity about his decision: "people think in terms of children, but they are really young adults"


@samstein Retweeted Andrew Beatty
So, 39-year-old Don Jr. is a “good boy” but DACA recipients are “really young adults”
posted by chris24 at 3:39 PM on September 5, 2017 [93 favorites]


"Saturday Protestor == Sunshine Patriot"
Please stop eating yourselves.
posted by Pinback at 3:45 PM on September 5, 2017 [25 favorites]


Trump showed a twinge of sensitivity about his decision: "people think in terms of children, but they are really young adults"

You think it's bad that black kids are considered adults when they're 12? Apparently Latinx and Hispanic kids can be three years old and be expected to consider immigration laws and refuse to accompany their parents to the United States.
posted by Talez at 3:50 PM on September 5, 2017 [55 favorites]


From the face-eating leopards? Eating my face?! file - about Michigan's Iraqi Chaldean community:
Trump and Vice President Mike Pence inspired many Chaldeans to show up at voting booths with unprecedented enthusiasm by promising to protect persecuted Christians in the Middle East. A Chaldean priest publicly blessed Trump while he was on the campaign trail, and conservative Christians praised Trump’s commitment to Christian minorities on Facebook. Few in the community expected that Trump’s immigration crackdown—touted in part as a means to protect the country from radical Islamists—would come to target them...


...Aside from families being torn apart and middle-aged and old men facing what they perceive to be death sentences, Naoum recognizes that Chaldeans in Michigan have been thrust into uncertainty about their deeply held social and political loyalties.

“The community is not going to forget who came to our aid and who didn’t,” he said, referring to the largely silent Michigan Republican establishment. “And we have voting power.”
Long story shorter - In exchange for removing Iraq from the banned countries list in March, the Trump administration got Iraq to agree to more cooperation and speed in the return/repatriation of Iraqis in the United States. And, of course, many of the people facing deportation are from minority groups that will face persecution or worse if they have to return.
posted by nubs at 3:51 PM on September 5, 2017 [19 favorites]


> Apparently Latinx and Hispanic kids can be three years old and be expected to consider immigration laws and refuse to accompany their parents to the United States.

Hey, if they can walk on their own, they can walk back over that border.
(But, Representative King, what about the infants?)

Meanwhile, here's Krugman on how ending DACA is a self-inflicted wound for the US on multiple levels: The Very Bad Economics of Killing DACA:

"Trump’s decision to kill DACA ... is, first and foremost, a moral obscenity: throwing out 800,000 young people who are Americans in every way that matters, who have done nothing wrong, basically for racial reasons. ... DACA is very much a boon to the rest of the U.S. population, and killing it will make everyone worse off."
posted by RedOrGreen at 3:56 PM on September 5, 2017 [21 favorites]


"Trump’s decision to kill DACA ... is, first and foremost, a moral obscenity: throwing out 800,000 young people who are Americans in every way that matters, who have done nothing wrong, basically for racial reasons. ... DACA is very much a boon to the rest of the U.S. population, and killing it will make everyone worse off."

Which is even more stupid given Trump's propensity for wanting us to achieve 7-8% growth like a developing country. OK. Let's pretend this is achievable. You just contracted the market by 0.3% making your goal even harder. Good work there, shitstain in chief.
posted by Talez at 4:01 PM on September 5, 2017 [10 favorites]


"It's not cold-hearted to follow the law." - Sarah Huckabee Sanders

I've got some cold-hearted laws you can follow, fucker.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 4:06 PM on September 5, 2017 [8 favorites]


I'm a broken record on this I know, but if the diagnosis of malignant narcissism is correct, this is absolutely not going to happen. In that case, he literally cannot personally identify with insecurity and shame, no matter how extreme or public. He'll just burrow even deeper into his narcissism and dissociation from what should be his own natural guilt and healthy shame and project the responsibility for the failures onto others.

Since we're engaging in rampant speculation, I don't think he's disassociated from reality. Nor do i think he has a problem personally identifying with insecurity and shame. I do think he's colossally insecure about the position he holds and covers for it by desperately attempting to boost his ego at every opportunity.

We can armchair diagnose the man from a distance but the truth of the matter is we honestly can't tell anything for sure other than that he's a raging asshole.
posted by zarq at 4:06 PM on September 5, 2017 [11 favorites]


The Justice Department today formally dropped its efforts to defend the overtime rule, keeping the federal threshold a salary too high to be eligible for for overtime pay at just $23,660.

Why denying overtime to millions of workers isn't just one level below ending DACA on the national outrage meter is beyond me.
posted by zachlipton at 4:07 PM on September 5, 2017 [88 favorites]


> So, I think it's time to compile a list of companies that rent space in Trump-branded properties.

And profit-cock block Trump and Trump related globally N. Stephenson "Zodiac" style . Especially his proudest sites/golf-courses.

Which is technically horrible (and ungentlemanly) as it's essentially psychologically tormenting a seriously mentally disturbed and incapacitated senior citizen (#insert Goldwater caveats).


But, srsly, brain punching this particular Nazi [word that is now legal in Aus. and the one I scream endlessly every time I see that CENSORED's face] is stitches in time.

Vox did a follow-up to the previous article with charts Who Trump hurts by ending DACA, explained with a cartoon and 11 charts.

Notably "Almost half of us arrived before our sixth birthday" (not that that or any age should be a cutoff).

This isn't immigration correction, it's forced exile, it's deportation of politically defined "undesirables", it's clearances, and yes: ethnic clensing.

It's also the exact reverse of the American Dream
posted by Buntix at 4:11 PM on September 5, 2017 [15 favorites]


Like how a black guy stole their idea for healthcare?

I keep saying this because it's important: no, he didn't.

It's important because assigning any responsibility to the Republican party for the creation of the ACA - even the minor responsibility of the ideas behind it, which were A) not theirs and B) completely dissimilar to what they wanted - concedes the argument that the GOP has some ability to govern in the modern era. They do not. They have not for decades.
posted by mightygodking at 4:20 PM on September 5, 2017 [17 favorites]


Total aside: I hate the Vox minecraft-person comics. hate hate hate them. the colors are somehow aggressively boring and the "pixel" aesthetic is also done wrong.

ugh
posted by cybertaur1 at 4:21 PM on September 5, 2017 [1 favorite]


ed: "This isn't immigration correction"

(addendum: everyone should be able to travel to and live anywhere they damn well feel like [space and community permitting]- didn't mean to suggest that there is such a thing as illegality defined by location. That's insane.)
posted by Buntix at 4:22 PM on September 5, 2017


Not a big thing given the DACA decision but still a measure of how stupid he is.

I propose that the International System of Units add the trump as the unit of stupidity, with the MAGAtrump being the greatest possible quantity.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 4:23 PM on September 5, 2017 [10 favorites]


International metric prefix MAGA = 10TRUMP
posted by Bringer Tom at 4:28 PM on September 5, 2017 [2 favorites]


How many MAGAtrumps was the annexation of Fort Sumter? Operation Barbarossa?
posted by Coventry at 4:29 PM on September 5, 2017


Terry Colon should just make every explainer comic ever.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 4:37 PM on September 5, 2017 [5 favorites]


It's worth mentioning that the DACA recipients paid over $400,000,000 to the U.S. Treasury for the documents that Trump is about to tear up and screw them out of. This is about par for a Trump business deal.
posted by JackFlash at 4:46 PM on September 5, 2017 [84 favorites]


Since we're engaging in rampant speculation

It's not my "rampant speculation"; several highly respected professional psychiatric groups have broken with long-standing professional ethics rules to warn the public they believe Trump can safely be diagnosed as malignant narcissist based on his public speech acts and other very clear diagnostic criteria. And narcissism doesn't require full dissociation from reality, only dissociation from one's own guilt/shame/insecurity.
posted by saulgoodman at 4:52 PM on September 5, 2017 [18 favorites]




It's not my "rampant speculation"

I'd point out that inter-rater correlation in diagnosis of NPD is only 0.67, except that was a psychology experiment, and such experiments are notoriously unreliable. Arguments from authority aren't very convincing when it comes to psychological claims.
posted by Coventry at 5:04 PM on September 5, 2017 [4 favorites]


The worst thing you can say about the Boomer generation is it gave us Donald Trump

that's...that's pretty bad
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:04 PM on September 5, 2017 [39 favorites]


Tal Kopan and Jim Acosta, CNN: Admin memo: DACA recipients should prepare for 'departure from the United States'

The Department of Homeland Security urges DACA recipients to use the time remaining on their work authorizations to prepare for and arrange their departure from the United States -- including proactively seeking travel documentation

Bastards.
posted by Rust Moranis at 5:04 PM on September 5, 2017 [51 favorites]


Because, of course, after living in the states most of their lives and likely not having documents from their original countries after growing up here, I'm sure getting that travel documentation to go back to countries they do not consider home will just be -so- simple.
posted by Archelaus at 5:09 PM on September 5, 2017 [22 favorites]


Well, if multiple pro psychiatrist groups are willing to put their professional reputations and necks on the line to make the diagnosis anyway, presumably more aware of those diagnostic limitations themselves, I'd have to imagine Trump's case is pretty obviously a doozy to the professionals whose daily jobs are working with patients who do have the diagnosis as well as being actual medical authorities much more qualified in reality than any of us to make the diagnosis. That's also why I qualified my comment "if the diagnosis is correct..." The rest after that is true, in case "batshit insane" isn't specific enough information to go on for forming predictions.
posted by saulgoodman at 5:13 PM on September 5, 2017 [8 favorites]


That's a good point -- what is the admin's plan for the deportations? If a person has no documents, where are you going to deport them to? You may say "you look mexican" -- but why should Mexico let that person enter their country with no documents?
posted by phliar at 5:13 PM on September 5, 2017 [16 favorites]


I'm not involved very directly in this side of the Resistance so I don't know if this is a stupid idea, but what would happen if hundreds of thousands of Dreamers showed up to turn themselves in to ICE all at once?
posted by tivalasvegas at 5:15 PM on September 5, 2017


...and can you imagine thousands of Dreamers a day? I said THOUSANDS of Dreamers a day... walkin' in, singin' a bar of "Alice's Restaurant" and walkin' out? Friends, They may think it's a MOVEMENT, and that's what it is: THE ALICE'S RESTAURANT ANTI-RICH ORANGE SHITHEAD MOVEMENT!
posted by delfin at 5:18 PM on September 5, 2017 [22 favorites]


I think it would be more effective if hundreds of thousands of people who *aren't* at risk of deportation show up and drive all the ICE agents into the sea where they belong.
posted by mrjohnmuller at 5:21 PM on September 5, 2017 [64 favorites]


If they have no documentation for their countries of origin and those countries refuse to accept them, then the DREAMers become stateless people, which is an even more cruel fate than being repatriated to a place you don't remember and whose language you don't speak. I would expect a lot of the origin countries to be a bit forgiving on this score so as not to be counted on the heartless asshole card along with Trump et al, but you never know.
posted by Bringer Tom at 5:22 PM on September 5, 2017 [17 favorites]


Microsoft President Brad Smith on NPR:
"There is nothing that we will be pushing on more strongly for Congress to act on," Smith said in an interview with NPR. "We put a stake in the ground. We care about a tax reform bill. The entire business community cares about a tax reform. And yet it is very clear today a tax reform bill needs to be set aside until the DREAMers are taken care of. They have a deadline that expires in six months. Tax reform can wait."

Smith also said if the government moves to deport DREAMers who are Microsoft employees, "it's going to have to go through us to get that person."
Also, Microsoft says it will pay legal fees to fight Dreamer employee deportation.
posted by chris24 at 5:23 PM on September 5, 2017 [123 favorites]


but what would happen if hundreds of thousands of Dreamers showed up to turn themselves in to ICE all at once?

I think the worst case scenario is camps in the desert to take the overflow from ICE detention centers. These are actual Nazis.
posted by schadenfrau at 5:28 PM on September 5, 2017 [61 favorites]


Yes, I mean in 6 months.

Would the sight of half a million young people lining up in every city to be deported be enough to move the conscience of the 'white moderate'?

Is it the best chance to do so?

I don't know and I'm not saying I do. I just want people who know more than I do to help think through what the best way to resist is (and what we who are citizens can do to support our fellow Americans).
posted by tivalasvegas at 5:28 PM on September 5, 2017


Anthony Scaramucci was fired five weeks ago.

Who wants ginger snaps?!?
posted by petebest at 5:28 PM on September 5, 2017 [8 favorites]


Ah, fuck. I don't want to alarm people unnecessarily, and my previous comment is basically guaranteed to do that. I'm sorry. I just...don't think we should trust in the decency of ICE.
posted by schadenfrau at 5:29 PM on September 5, 2017 [14 favorites]


The worst thing you can say about the Boomer generation is it gave us Donald Trump.

It also gave you Barrack and Michelle Obama, although they were from the tail end of the Boomers.
posted by JackFlash at 5:31 PM on September 5, 2017 [7 favorites]


That's a good point -- what is the admin's plan for the deportations? If a person has no documents, where are you going to deport them to? You may say "you look mexican" -- but why should Mexico let that person enter their country with no documents?

If they have a Latin@ name, they get sent to Mexico. If they have family members with Latin@ names, they get sent to Mexico. (Nevermind whether Mexico has any interest in letting them in - the plan may be, "walk them to the border and point guns at them until they continue into Mexico.") If they have a middle-eastern name, send them to either (1) the identifiable country they came from or (2) Iraq, because that's where "Muslim terrorists" come from. Put them on a plane; push them out onto the tarmac.

DACA person who got here when they were 3, speak only English, has three US citizen children now? They can take the US citizen children with them or drop them into the US foster care system; their choice.

This is not, of course, aimed at European nannies who overstay their work permits or students who just don't leave when their visa expires. White immigrants are welcome to stay as long as they're paying taxes. They might even marry a future president.

There is no plan. This isn't about "illegal immigrants" or "keeping America for Americans;" it's about reducing the number of non-white faces Republicans have to see. It's not even about kicking them out - they'd be happy if they went into hiding and worked in sweatshops where they can't complain for fear of being deported.

Keep asking those questions, and keep asking them of politicians - ask about how they're going to identify where to send someone who's not a citizen of any other country either, because not all citizenships are based on "born here;" ask what will happen to their minor children who are US citizens; ask who's going to pay for the deportations. Ask what resources are going to be arranged for all those US citizen children who go to their parents' countries.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 5:35 PM on September 5, 2017 [61 favorites]


Morning Consult/POLITICO: 69% of *REPUBLICANS* think Dreamers should be allowed to stay or become citizens.

D: 71% become citizens, 13% stay, 8% deport

I: 56% become citizens, 18% stay, 12% deport

R: 46% become citizens, 23% stay, 24% deport
posted by chris24 at 5:39 PM on September 5, 2017 [54 favorites]


If they have a Latin@ name, they get sent to Mexico. If they have family members with Latin@ names, they get sent to Mexico. (Nevermind whether Mexico has any interest in letting them in - the plan may be, "walk them to the border and point guns at them until they continue into Mexico.")

This is, unfortunately, exactly the sort of cool plan I can see ICE coming up with and actually implementing, and I can also see Mexico getting a bit tired of being the dumping ground even for people who know their parents are from places like Guatemala or Ecuador, but who have no documentation to prove it. The whole thing is deliberately designed to fuck over as many people as possible as noisily as possible, and for the crassest possible reasons.
posted by Bringer Tom at 5:40 PM on September 5, 2017 [10 favorites]


1) Airdrop all of the Dreamers into a small European nation, like, say, San Marino
2) Assign tasks to the Dreamers according to their abilities -- musical performance, stage management, set design, graphic effects, talent management, costume creation, Director of Key Changes, et cetera
3) WIN EUROVISION SCHOOL OF ROCK-STYLE

Take THAT, Putin.
posted by delfin at 5:40 PM on September 5, 2017 [13 favorites]


It's not even about kicking them out - they'd be happy if they went into hiding and worked in sweatshops where they can't complain for fear of being deported.

It's absolutely about kicking them out too, Republicans want to "debrownify" America as much as possible, because minorities vote Democratic and have American citizen kids that vote Democratic. Republicans want to reverse demographic trends that don't favor them staying in power, and if they have to create a new trail of tears to do that, they're prepared to do it. Hell, they'd like to repeal birthright citizenship itself if they could figure out how to do it.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:40 PM on September 5, 2017 [18 favorites]


"… but what would happen if hundreds of thousands of Dreamers showed up to turn themselves in to ICE all at once?"
Turnbull: They have been under our supervision for over three years now and we know exactly everything about them.
   …
Trump: That is a good idea. We should do that too. You are worse than I am.

Fuckers have enough opportunities to be fuckers; don't give them more…
posted by Pinback at 5:42 PM on September 5, 2017 [9 favorites]


@realDonaldTrump: Congress now has 6 months to legalize DACA (something the Obama Administration was unable to do). If they can't, I will revisit this issue!

So you remember that NYT piece from this morning about how aides thought Trump didn't understand what he's doing with DACA? Did he watch something on cable today and now he understands or something? He set a time bomb this morning that goes off in six months to try to force Congress to act, and now he's, what, saying he might diffuse the bomb himself if they don't? He's so bad at this.
posted by zachlipton at 5:43 PM on September 5, 2017 [54 favorites]


Shorter Trump: Nobody knew immigration reform could be so complicated.
posted by chris24 at 5:45 PM on September 5, 2017 [27 favorites]


I'm not a fan of amateur armchair analysis, but I do think that there are professionals who can give us insight into Trump's actions. Psychiatrist and psychoanalyst, Prudence L. Gourguechon, M.D., was on Lawrence O'Donnell's show last nigbt to discuss an L.A. Times Op-Ed she wrote, Is Trump mentally fit to be president? Let's consult the U.S. Army's field manual on leadership.
Although there are volumes devoted to outlining criteria for psychiatric disorders, there is surprisingly little psychiatric literature defining mental capacity, even less on the particular abilities required for serving in positions of great responsibility. Despite the thousands of articles and books written on leadership, primarily in the business arena, I have found only one source where the capacities necessary for strategic leadership are clearly and comprehensively laid out: the U.S. Army’s “Field Manual 6-22 Leader Development.”
I think it's helpful to have reasonable, objective criteria as a reference.

(emphasis in original)

(Emphasis mine)

posted by Room 641-A at 5:45 PM on September 5, 2017 [2 favorites]


Well, hopefully in six months, President Pence will be able to deal with this right before resigning.
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:46 PM on September 5, 2017 [6 favorites]


In case you were wondering what Corey Lewandowski is up to - Cambridge is really nice in the fall.
posted by adamg at 5:46 PM on September 5, 2017 [1 favorite]


There seems to be no one the Kennedy School won't give a place to. It's disgusting, really.
posted by uosuaq at 5:50 PM on September 5, 2017 [5 favorites]


Part of me thinks that the plan here is to attach an act to restore DACA to something deeply unpopular that Trump really wants, like Obamacare repeal. That way, maybe he can get a couple of senators to change their vote so they can save DACA, and if not, then he can make Democrats pay a political price for voting against a bill that included relief for Dreamers. But then I thought about it and realized that I was giving Trump much too much credit, and he's just a white supremacist who is obsessed with undoing Obama's legacy.

God help us all.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 5:51 PM on September 5, 2017 [2 favorites]


I know this isn't Trump-related, but not sure where else to put it - Rush Limbaugh says that "big water" and Al Gore are behind the projections for Hurricane Irma. Seriously. Link to Twitter thread to avoid giving him extra traffic.
posted by waitingtoderail at 5:59 PM on September 5, 2017 [6 favorites]


Goddam I hope that asshat dies before I do...
posted by bird internet at 6:02 PM on September 5, 2017 [4 favorites]


How the fuck can one be a hurricane truther?
posted by angrycat at 6:03 PM on September 5, 2017 [38 favorites]


wetly?
posted by Barack Spinoza at 6:05 PM on September 5, 2017 [5 favorites]


How the fuck can one be a hurricane truther?

His argument is that "Big Water" and the mainstream media are fomenting panic to, respectively, sell water and push the concept of climate change. It's incredibly irresponsible and silly.
posted by Coventry at 6:07 PM on September 5, 2017 [3 favorites]


In case you were wondering what Corey Lewandowski is up to - Cambridge is really nice in the fall.

I was a member of the IOP's Student Advisory Committee during my undergraduate years at Harvard. It was my main student extracurricular activity. I am practically incandescent with rage right now. I've just drafted a letter to President Faust and the director of the IOP, Maggie Williams, to notify them that I am immediately suspending all my donations to Harvard as a result of the decision to award Lewandowski a fellowship and I will refrain from making any donations to the University until his fellowship is rescinded and an apology is issued. This is -beyond- shameful and it's a violation of Harvard's code of conduct to boot. Lewandowski. Committed. Assault. Shame on you, Harvard. SHAME.
posted by longdaysjourney at 6:09 PM on September 5, 2017 [49 favorites]


Big Water? Maybe he thinks the hurricane is sentient.
posted by The Card Cheat at 6:09 PM on September 5, 2017 [2 favorites]


I hope ol painless Rush lives to a nice long 700 years or so. That mindset has to get exhausting.
posted by petebest at 6:09 PM on September 5, 2017


Big Water? Maybe he thinks the hurricane is sentient.

The bottled water industry, which is doing quite well in Florida at the moment.
posted by Coventry at 6:12 PM on September 5, 2017 [2 favorites]


"Hurricanes are liberal propaganda" is a bit funny when you consider that some on the hard right have opined that God is steering killer hurricanes at the US on purpose.

Which is hardly the first instance of that kind of talk.
posted by delfin at 6:13 PM on September 5, 2017 [7 favorites]


Trump made it like 8 hours before bravely advancing to the rear on DACA. Of course his attempt at retreating is going to cause even more chaos and make resolving things so much harder.
posted by Justinian at 6:14 PM on September 5, 2017 [10 favorites]


"Hurricanes are liberal propaganda" is a bit funny when you consider that some on the hard right have opined that God is steering killer hurricanes at the US on purpose.

When you're a conservative, hurricanes are whatever you need them to be to make political points.
posted by Joey Michaels at 6:15 PM on September 5, 2017 [7 favorites]


I read "Big Water" as the Atlantic Ocean and the Gulf of Mexico and the Caribbean Sea and well no duh. Big Water and Al Gore* are responsible for Irma.

-----------
*Jet Aeroplane rides and air conditioning.
posted by notyou at 6:15 PM on September 5, 2017 [2 favorites]


Special election result => The GOP has (apparently) held the New Hampshire House Grafton 9 seat. This was a traditionally narrow GOP seat; the Dem has lost by a close enough margin that he is seeking a recount.
posted by Chrysostom at 6:22 PM on September 5, 2017 [19 favorites]


Listen to Rush, Florida Trump voters. There's no hurricane, it's a conspiracy by the Chinese, Al Gore and Big Water. Plan a family beach vacation for Sunday, it'll be fine.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:23 PM on September 5, 2017 [8 favorites]


Maggie Williams is no longer at the IOP. It's now an old fogey by the name of Bill Delahunt, in an iterim capacity.
posted by AwkwardPause at 6:26 PM on September 5, 2017 [2 favorites]


You know if the hurricane did go to Mar -A-Lago it would be making a direct hit on Rush Limbaugh's mansion, also.
Unfortunately, several hundred thousand others.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 6:28 PM on September 5, 2017 [4 favorites]


Droppo'clock:

House Intelligence Committee subpoenas Trump documents from FBI and Justice Department (Newsweek/Raw Story)
The House Intelligence Committee has issued subpoenas requesting that the FBI and Department of Justice provide documents related to an unverified dossier about President Donald Trump. The latest subpoenas reportedly call on FBI Director Christopher Wray and Attorney General Jeff Sessions to appear before the House panel.
posted by Room 641-A at 6:31 PM on September 5, 2017 [23 favorites]


Attorney General Jeff Sessions to appear before the House panel.

Ah cannot tell a lah, Congressman, because the predisent has not yet decided if ah should do that yet.
posted by petebest at 6:37 PM on September 5, 2017 [16 favorites]


Here's some context that changes the narrative of the House investigation story. Intensifying Russia probes could pit Hill against Mueller. In short, Trey Gowdy is running interference for Trump.
posted by scalefree at 6:40 PM on September 5, 2017 [13 favorites]


President Faust

Well, there's your problem

Taking Lewandowski was probably part of the deal
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:40 PM on September 5, 2017 [13 favorites]


Intensifying Russia probes could pit Hill against Mueller.
Mueller's team has employed some aggressive tactics. In one such case, Mueller's team may have obtained evidence in the raid of Manafort's home that was not covered by the search warrant, sources told CNN.
I thought that was typical for a search warrant, and the reason you never want to be the target of an investigation. It's just the plain-view exception to the fourth amendment, isn't it?
posted by Coventry at 6:58 PM on September 5, 2017 [15 favorites]


It's a perfect example to come up after reading zachlipton's link 'How to Read a News Story About an Investigation', that's for sure. When I read that I immediately knew "sources" meant... Manafort's lawyer.
posted by ctmf at 7:02 PM on September 5, 2017 [23 favorites]


In short, Trey Gowdy is running interference for Trump

Interference, or obstruction?
posted by Room 641-A at 7:02 PM on September 5, 2017 [7 favorites]


It's just the plain-view exception to the fourth amendment, isn't it?

Right, if the cops have a search warrant looking for giant piles of cocaine in your apartment and when they bust in you have two illegal UZIs sitting on the counter you don't get away with the weapons charges because the warrant was for drugs. This objection is, to use the Republicans favorite new phrase, a nothingburger.
posted by Justinian at 7:04 PM on September 5, 2017 [25 favorites]


Well they sure don't want to meet with Mueller again. He'll FBI-mind-trick them into lying about something he already knows, then indict them too.
posted by ctmf at 7:05 PM on September 5, 2017 [5 favorites]


Can we just make with the pee tape, please?
posted by fluttering hellfire at 7:06 PM on September 5, 2017 [7 favorites]


If a person has no documents, where are you going to deport them to? You may say "you look mexican" -- but why should Mexico let that person enter their country with no documents?

Historically, what has happened is that the people deported end up in no-man's land between the two countries, and they're stuck there until one nation relents or a third party offers to accept them as refugees.
posted by Joe in Australia at 7:06 PM on September 5, 2017 [8 favorites]


I didn't realise the US had not signed any of the treaties on reducing statelessness -- but not surprised I guess.
posted by phliar at 7:20 PM on September 5, 2017 [2 favorites]


If the House won't provide testimony transcripts, can Mueller just subpoena those witnesses again?
posted by Coventry at 7:35 PM on September 5, 2017


This objection is, to use the Republicans favorite new phrase, a nothingburger.

I never thought I'd live to see the day I was glad to watch the GOP kill something that's popular, yet here we are.
posted by middleclasstool at 7:42 PM on September 5, 2017 [2 favorites]


It's gotten so bad I've started to get used to agreeing with Jen Rubin.

@JRubinBlogger:
Trump doesn't want to take responsibility, be the bad guy. DACA supporters therefore must focus like a laser on him
posted by chris24 at 7:46 PM on September 5, 2017 [14 favorites]


WATCH WHAT TRUMP DOES, NOT WHAT HE SAYS. HE MAY NOT ACTUALLY END DACA. (Ryan Grimm, Intercept):
The likelihood of Trump reversing himself and extending the program does not suggest that DACA recipients don’t face real risks. The limbo itself is a cruel blow, and the uncertainty adds another layer of challenge to all aspects of life, from the personal to the professional. Many of those recipients are already facing crises, as undocumented parents and other family members who were not eligible for the program have become targets of Trump’s ramped-up interior deportations.

But the fight is not over, no matter what the reality TV host or his Alabama sidekick announces on Tuesday.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 7:50 PM on September 5, 2017 [4 favorites]


Interference, or obstruction?

Both. The House "investigation" is anything but. Gowdy is not even in the same plane of existence as a good faith actor, he's going to take every opening to sabotage Mueller under cover of official Congressional action.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:05 PM on September 5, 2017 [11 favorites]


Trump: So you help with the election, I get the Presidency. And?

Putin: And dacha.

Trump: End DACA? Whatever you say, boss.
posted by jason_steakums at 8:05 PM on September 5, 2017 [31 favorites]


I don't understand the "I'm going to end DACA but the Congress can pass a bill to save it." Trump is going to sign the bill? Then why say he's going to end DACA? He's not going to sign the bill? Then two-thirds of Congress is needed to override the veto.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 8:06 PM on September 5, 2017 [3 favorites]


The Coming Storm (Jacobin):
Gleason and Will echo a cohort of self-styled progressive historians and political scientists who describe the universalist policies of the New Deal and Great Society eras as inherently flawed because of constraints imposed on them by segregationist congressmen. They also obscure the years of struggle it took to bring some people under the protection of these laws. Thus Gleason uses racism, not contractor profits and upward redistribution, to justify his suggestion that President Trump immediately suspend the Davis-Bacon Act.

In moments like this, when others want to turn crisis into opportunity, we need a clear-headed understanding of class power and a practical commitment to working-class interests.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 8:07 PM on September 5, 2017 [3 favorites]


I don't understand the "I'm going to end DACA but the Congress can pass a bill to save it." Trump is going to sign the bill? Then why say he's going to end DACA? He's not going to sign the bill? Then two-thirds of Congress is needed to override the veto.

They called it Repeal and Replace last time.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 8:12 PM on September 5, 2017 [8 favorites]


They're not going to get a bill. He knows that. He gets to rile up racists, throw congress into a shit-stink attacking each other with no time to do anything, blame Obama for causing the whole thing, and either blame congress for not succeeding or get to deport a bunch of people. I don't think he cares either way, it's all win as far as he's concerned.
posted by ctmf at 8:13 PM on September 5, 2017 [12 favorites]


If they do come up with a bill that passes both chambers (while he's stirring up opposition to his own bill just to make it a bigger mess), he'll find some fault with it and not sign it, while blaming congress for not helping him save the dreamers (from himself) good enough.
posted by ctmf at 8:15 PM on September 5, 2017


Beyond parody.

@yashar:
Sean Hannity just now: "I talked to Julian Assange, he says it's not Russia. I just spoke to @DanaRohrabacher and he believes him."
posted by chris24 at 8:18 PM on September 5, 2017 [60 favorites]


"Hey these two Russian assets say we're cool soooooo..."
posted by jason_steakums at 8:21 PM on September 5, 2017 [25 favorites]


It turns out it was Vicente Fox all along! [scooby-doo reveal] Thanks, Julian!
posted by ctmf at 8:21 PM on September 5, 2017 [9 favorites]


So the three most obvious Russian tools, Hannity, Assange and Rohrbacher, are all denying Russia has done anything naughty... that's a sure sign of something - I wonder what.
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:22 PM on September 5, 2017 [8 favorites]


I think eventually this ends with Julian Assange tearing his mask off Scooby-Doo style and revealing "Yes, it was I VLADIMIR PUTIN all along!".
posted by Justinian at 8:23 PM on September 5, 2017 [7 favorites]


Dangit. The odds on someone else making the same goddamn Scooby Doo joke in the minute and a half since I previewed... I love you guys.
posted by Justinian at 8:24 PM on September 5, 2017 [37 favorites]


So the three most obvious Russian tools, Hannity, Assange and Rohrbacher, are all denying Russia has done anything naughty... that's a sure sign of something - I wonder what.

To be fair, Hannity might just be a tool, not necessarily a Russian tool.
posted by jason_steakums at 8:24 PM on September 5, 2017 [9 favorites]


I scream! you scream! You scream! We all scream just constantly each day is a new nightmare in this Hell world we call earth. (Obvious Plant on Facebook; direct link to image; Imgur archive)
posted by filthy light thief at 8:32 PM on September 5, 2017 [10 favorites]


that's a sure sign of something - I wonder what.

It's a sign Assange knows the GOP strategy: just lie. Straight up, baldfaced lie. "Wasn't me" "I just fucking saw you" "No you didn't."

60% already know you're a liar, 26% don't give a shit, and a lot of the remaining 14% are credulous idiots as long as you say what they wish were true. Might as well.
posted by ctmf at 8:39 PM on September 5, 2017 [11 favorites]


And today in "All Republicans are fucking liars and criminals": The Pence/Kobach Voter Suppression Comission is conducting its business over personal email accounts in violation of the Presidential Records Act

I seem to remember Republicans, and the New York Times, cared deeply about use of personal email for official business from July 2016 until Election Day. I haven't heard so much about it since though, maybe someone should ask Maggie Habermann?
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:47 PM on September 5, 2017 [119 favorites]


It's a sign Assange knows the GOP strategy: just lie. Straight up, baldfaced lie.

"I never touched it. It was broken when you gave it me. It was fine when I returned it".
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 8:48 PM on September 5, 2017 [11 favorites]


Updated statement from our university president:
Dear ASU Community:

Two days ago, I made clear ASU’s intention to honor its constitutionally mandated mission to provide a quality education to Arizona’s college bound students – all of them.

I had previously reaffirmed ASU’s “historic commitment to Dreamers generally and to DACA students in particular.” I stand by that commitment, including my promise that “If DACA is eliminated, we will rise to the challenge,” just as we did before DACA existed by finding resources for these students from private sources.

In my November statement, I provided the broad outlines of our action plan. Here are some specific steps we are taking in response to today’s announcement:

1. We will work with the Arizona Congressional Delegation and other members of Congress to enact the DREAM Act or other appropriate federal legislation to provide an alternative to DACA by the administration’s March 5, 2018, deadline. I have asked Matt Salmon, ASU’s Vice President for Government Affairs, to lead this effort. I am hopeful that this time we will succeed in finding what I have long considered a pathway to an educated future for thousands of young people who have done nothing wrong.

2. We will engage the members of the Arizona business community and the various Arizona Chambers of Commerce who have supported these efforts in the past to assist with our federal policy work. Matt Salmon and his team will also coordinate this work.

3. We will facilitate legal advice for and to our students. I have asked Sr. Vice President and General Counsel, José Cárdenas, and the dean of the Sandra Day O’Connor College of Law, Doug Sylvester, to coordinate this effort.

4. Past experience has taught us that despite overwhelming public support for the DREAM Act, passage is not a certainty. To cover that eventuality, we will begin work now with individual, corporate, and foundation donors to help provide scholarships and other resources to our students. I've asked Gretchen Buhlig, CEO of the ASU Foundation, and ASU Sr. Vice President Christine Wilkinson, to lead this effort.

5. Our contingency planning will include discussions with Mexican and other international universities to identify and develop higher education programs that may be of assistance to our students. Executive Vice President and University Provost Mark Searle and General Counsel José Cárdenas will lead this effort.

All of these steps are in addition to those we initiated last November and earlier this year, and that we have enhanced since then. For example, in November we began providing counseling services to our DACA students, and over the course of the last several months we have touched base with every one of our DACA students to reaffirm our support for the completion of their college education.

And earlier this year we established a web page for DACA students and for international staff and faculty, and we will continue to use it to provide additional and up-to-date information. We have already added links to the three DHS documents concerning the administration’s decision to rescind DACA: A press release, a memorandum and an FAQ about the decision. All three can be found on ASU’s immigration and travel resources page.

I previously said we would talk to our DACA scholarship partner, TheDream.US, about ways in which they can continue to support the recipients of their scholarship funds. Those discussions have been ongoing, including as recently as last week when they advised their ASU scholars that TheDream.US is “exploring options that will enable us to continue to support your college education,” should DACA end. They have also said that, if need be, they will make scholarships available for ASU’s online program.

As I said on Sunday, we will, “within the law, do everything we possibly can do to help young people move their lives forward – regardless of the circumstances that brought them to this country.”


Michael M. Crow
President
Arizona State University
I'm delighted that this has been a priority for our administration. Not surprisingly, we have a lot of DACA students, and probably some faculty as well (definitely some adjunct faculty, including in my own department). I hope it gives those affected and their families some measure of reassurance and peace in these horrible days.
posted by Superplin at 9:10 PM on September 5, 2017 [75 favorites]


I don't understand the "I'm going to end DACA but the Congress can pass a bill to save it." Trump is going to sign the bill? Then why say he's going to end DACA? He's not going to sign the bill? Then two-thirds of Congress is needed to override the veto.

Trump has little understanding of the politics & mechanisms involved so expecting anything from him that satisfies those rules is wrong. He has urges, desires, & his actions seek to fulfill them without regard for the long term result or whether they conflict with each other. He wants his followers to love him & to punish his enemies & the subhumans they care about, but he also wants the cheers & approval that come from saying he supports those same subhumans. He wants credit from the racists but not criticism from the rest of us. Is that too much to ask?
posted by scalefree at 9:22 PM on September 5, 2017 [8 favorites]


I'm not up on the media commentary... has anybody remarked on the fact that Trump, a guy whose only POSSIBLE Earthly claim to fame is that he inherited money, wants to deny a bunch of people the benefits that should attend the lucky circumstances of their births? I'd just sleep easier if somebody would say this stuff out loud, is all...
posted by Sing Or Swim at 9:42 PM on September 5, 2017 [5 favorites]


He's an instinctual predator, but that doesn't mean he isn't effective.

Also, he can just single out one group as worthy of contempt and his fellow southern strategists will then "work towards the fuhrer" to abuse them. e.g. Latin@s, or, more broadly, climate change science programs.
posted by sebastienbailard at 9:58 PM on September 5, 2017 [5 favorites]


What's the trick? These appointments to OPM and FLRA don't seem like something a silent movie villain would think up.
posted by ctmf at 10:22 PM on September 5, 2017


Gowdy is not even in the same plane of existence as a good faith actor, he's going to take every opening to sabotage Mueller under cover of official Congressional action

I'm just hoping that this does/will rise to the level of official obstruction charges from Mueller.
posted by Room 641-A at 10:31 PM on September 5, 2017 [5 favorites]


Natural Human Behavior
Trump didn’t invent the U.S. immigration and deportation complex; he inherited it. But he also expanded and brutalized its operations in ways unimaginable under President Barack Obama. This was no mean achievement: Trump’s predecessor had deported record numbers of people, even as he enacted a limited amnesty for those brought to this country as children without proper paperwork. On both sides, political pragmatism outweighed humanitarian concerns. Democrats wanted brown people’s votes. Republicans had stopped bothering with them, rallying behind Trump for the reestablishment of a white supremacist state, beginning with the forcible deportation of millions of “illegals” from Mexico and Latin America, whom Trump slandered as “rapists,” killers, drug pushers, and “bad hombres.”

In February 2016, a center-right think tank called the American Action Forum published a report titled “The Personnel And Infrastructure Needed To Remove All Undocumented Immigrants In Two Years.” It described in cautionary terms the practical requirements of the anti-immigrant “military operation” that Trump had put forward as his signature policy.

Among other expansions of the federal bureaucracy, the report estimated the following would be required to forcibly deport 11.3 million “undocumented” immigrants: an increase in the deportation officer headcount, from 4,844 to 90,582; an increase in the number of immigration jail beds to nearly 349,000, up from 34,000; the establishment of more than 1,200 new immigration courts, on top of the fifty-eight currently existing; the hiring of a commensurate number of federal attorneys; and the chartering of at least forty-seven commercial airline flights per day, up from four per day, as well as eighty-four daily buses, up from seven. Not counting the exponential increase in human suffering, the immediate consequence of Trump’s purge would be to vaporize an estimated $1 trillion in real gross domestic product while removing a full 6 percent of the national labor force.

In other words, Trump’s proposal was not only unfathomably wicked, it was also, as a narrowly construed matter of imperial management, staggeringly stupid.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 10:49 PM on September 5, 2017 [61 favorites]


Republicans:
Less government
More God
Less others
posted by PHINC at 10:59 PM on September 5, 2017 [2 favorites]


I have no sympathy for these kids.
Their parents broke the law.
They don't have jobs.
They cost taxpayers money.
posted by growabrain at 11:03 PM on September 5, 2017 [8 favorites]


I'm not a fan of amateur armchair analysis

Ooh, bad news for you then re: the Drumpf administration...
posted by Meatbomb at 11:06 PM on September 5, 2017 [1 favorite]


Here are 11 reasons why Trump's crappy kids should be deported (Heather Dockray, Mashable)
posted by Room 641-A at 11:15 PM on September 5, 2017 [3 favorites]


I'm going to catch up with this thread in a minute, but--

If there are any Mefites in Richmond, Virginia, Memail me. I need your help.
posted by dogheart at 11:37 PM on September 5, 2017 [3 favorites]


Well played.
posted by johnpowell at 11:38 PM on September 5, 2017 [1 favorite]


guys i made it. it took me so so so long, but i made it. this is probably my last post, because i am paranoid, but still. i made it! memail is open forever, and i love all of you.
posted by dogheart at 11:42 PM on September 5, 2017 [42 favorites]


Terry Colon should just make every explainer comic ever.

I concur, but I can't figure out to what you are referring!
posted by mikelieman at 11:57 PM on September 5, 2017 [1 favorite]


It was a comment towards this, mikelieman.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 2:54 AM on September 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


New York Dreamer Challenges Trump Administration’s Termination of DACA
via National Immigration Law Center @NILC_org
A young immigrant New Yorker and Make the Road New York (MRNY) went to federal court today to challenge the Trump administration’s termination of the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) program. In a lawsuit brought in the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of New York, Martín Batalla Vidal, a DACA recipient, and MRNY are asking permission to amend their original complaint in order to argue that President Trump’s actions violate federal law and the equal protection guarantee of the Constitution.
posted by spamandkimchi at 3:11 AM on September 6, 2017 [9 favorites]


I wake up and see what looks like a mefite asking for help and disappearing because of this fucking black hole of a human being and his enablers.

I'm going to my first ADAPT meeting tonight. I've already seen stuff in social media from disability activists about the need to mobilize on DACA and I am so glad. I am so angry, I'm going to be 'hey do you need a chick in glasses to launch herself out her chair onto an ICE agent like some disabled human version of the face-hugger thing in Alien, I'm your woman.'
posted by angrycat at 3:13 AM on September 6, 2017 [84 favorites]


Political scientist Anna Law
There are THREE branches of govt in the US. It's a US bad habit to reduce everything to a lawsuit to let courts decide.
Let's the elected branches off the hook way too easily. Congress has the power to save DACA now that the Prez looks like he's punting.
The compelling for DACA were never about legality. To reduce it to law strengthens the hand of opponents and elides the complexity. (thread)
posted by spamandkimchi at 3:36 AM on September 6, 2017 [8 favorites]


n2doc at Democratic Underground: Wednesday Toon Roundups one and two.
posted by valetta at 3:43 AM on September 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


'hey do you need a chick in glasses to launch herself out her chair onto an ICE agent like some disabled human version of the face-hugger thing in Alien, I'm your woman.'

posted by angrycat

One of the more eponysterical things I've read here.
posted by jaduncan at 3:54 AM on September 6, 2017 [31 favorites]


Russians Have Hacked Dozens Of US Energy Companies, Researchers Say (Kevin Collier, BuzzFeed News)
A hacking group has grown bolder and gained access to operational controls of US electric companies, according to Symantec researchers.
posted by Room 641-A at 4:16 AM on September 6, 2017 [19 favorites]


Russians Have Hacked Dozens Of US Energy Companies, Researchers Say (Kevin Collier, BuzzFeed News)

You know, I'm not up on all the details of international law, but my layman's opinion is that this is an act of war.
posted by mikelieman at 5:07 AM on September 6, 2017 [35 favorites]


Former Mexican president slams Trump over DACA in brutal video
"Trump you have failed America cancelling DACA," he says.

"It is the worst action you've ever done against the ones that cannot defend themselves. This measure is cruel and heartless, worse than any machine. You're cancelling the future of 800,000 children and young people."

"You're so mistaken," he continued. "The future of any countries is in the minorities which will be majorities in a few years. You cannot stop the change, the progress, the future of that great nation. I hope your grandsons will never be in this terrible situation."
and:

Vicente Fox Quesada
Vicente Fox Quesada @VicenteFoxQue
.@realDonaldTrump cancelled the future of 800,000 kids who are the cornerstone of America and didn't even had the balls to say it himself.
posted by Room 641-A at 5:15 AM on September 6, 2017 [84 favorites]


When you're too racist and cruel for Jan Brewer...

@Taniel
Jan Brewer—the former Gov. who signed AZ's infamous SB 1070—just on CNN "these people shouldn't have to live in fear & in the shadows."
posted by chris24 at 5:16 AM on September 6, 2017 [23 favorites]


Draining. The. Swamp.

USA Today: Trump gets millions from golf members. CEOs and lobbyists get access to president
Dozens of lobbyists, contractors and others who make their living influencing the government pay President Trump’s companies for membership in his private golf clubs, a status that can put them in close contact with the president, a USA TODAY investigation found.

Members of the clubs Trump has visited most often as president — in Florida, New Jersey and Virginia — include at least 50 executives whose companies hold federal contracts and 21 lobbyists and trade group officials. Two-thirds played on one of the 58 days the president was there, according to scores they posted online. ...

The review shows that, for the first time in U.S. history, wealthy people with interests before the government have a chance for close and confidential access to the president as a result of payments that enrich him personally. It is a view of the president available to few other Americans.

Among Trump club members are top executives of defense contractors, a lobbyist for the South Korean government, a lawyer helping Saudi Arabia fight claims over the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks and the leader of a pesticide trade group that sought successfully to persuade the Trump administration not to ban an insecticide government scientists linked to health risks.
posted by chris24 at 5:22 AM on September 6, 2017 [55 favorites]


When you're too racist and cruel for Jan Brewer...

It's amazing how compassionate some people become when they're not fanning their racist bases for votes.
posted by Talez at 5:24 AM on September 6, 2017 [43 favorites]


Retired Democrat: [continues working for human rights as they did while in office]
Retired Republican: You know all those things I voted for? They're really cruel.
posted by uncleozzy at 5:29 AM on September 6, 2017 [109 favorites]


oh, dogheart. Fuck. Stay safe. We're thinking of you.
posted by schadenfrau at 5:41 AM on September 6, 2017 [16 favorites]


Talking Points Memo: A Frazzled Congress May Not Be Able To Clean Up Trump’s DACA Mess
In one ominous sign for the chances of Congress passing a DACA fix, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) did not mention the issue at all in his first post-recess speech Tuesday afternoon.

The White House has also shown no leadership on what kind of fix it wants, and instead has simply threatened Congress to get something done.
Trump wants Congress to get rid of this problem by putting DACA into law, but he's unwilling to say it out loud because he wants his base to believe that Congress are the bad guys who forced his hand, and that Trump is still a hero to his base who never breaks his promises. So the right-wingers who might otherwise vote for it, saying they respect the President's decision and want to support him, instead have no political cover and no motivation to vote for the bill.

Truly, this is the Art of the Deal.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 6:15 AM on September 6, 2017 [9 favorites]




In Wisconsin, the state legislature is trying quickly pass a law that if someone brings a lawsuit against Foxconn, the Wisconsin (super-corrupt) Supreme Court will have original jurisdiction.
posted by drezdn at 6:19 AM on September 6, 2017 [5 favorites]


A couple bipartisan and positive steps in the Senate:

WaPo: Two senators aim to challenge Trump’s transgender troops order in defense bill
Two senators are preparing an amendment to challenge President Trump’s announced ban on transgender people serving in the military that they hope to attach to a sweeping defense bill the chamber is set to consider this month.

Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand (D-N.Y.) said Tuesday that she is drafting the amendment with Sen. Susan Collins (R-Maine) to “try to protect the transgender troops” against the order that Trump initially issued via Twitter in July banning them from the military.

Politico: Senate resolution to force Trump's hand on condemning Charlottesville hate groups
The Senate is preparing to force President Donald Trump to go on record to officially condemn the deadly white supremacist rallies in Charlottesville last month.

Virginia Sens. Mark Warner and Tim Kaine, both Democrats, along with Republican Sens. Cory Gardner of Colorado and Johnny Isakson of Georgia, plan to formally roll out a Senate resolution later Wednesday that forcefully condemns the violence in Charlottesville while “rejecting white nationalists, white supremacists, the Ku Klux Klan, neo-Nazis and other hate groups.”

The Senate routinely takes up nonbinding measures commemorating people and institutions in the form of concurrent resolutions and simple resolutions – which are both purely symbolic and not submitted to the White House for the president’s signature. But backers of the Charlottesville resolution have strategically chosen to introduce their measure as a joint resolution, which means it will be sent to Trump to sign into law. ...

The five-page resolution not only honors the victims of the deadly clashes and condemns the hate groups, but also urges the Trump administration to “use all available resources to address the threats posed by those groups.” The measure calls white supremacy and neo-Nazism “hateful expressions of intolerance that are contradictory to the values that define the people of the United States.”
posted by chris24 at 6:23 AM on September 6, 2017 [51 favorites]


Dozens of lobbyists, contractors and others who make their living influencing the government pay President Trump’s companies for membership in his private golf clubs, a status that can put them in close contact with the president...

One bright spot. All those people will undoubtedly resign their memberships once Trump is out of office and of no further use to them. He's not going to have the kind of influence that previous former politicians have; they're not interested in his base. This is going to hurt the bottom line bigly. Bwahahahaha.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 6:24 AM on September 6, 2017 [2 favorites]


There was a big pro-DACA march yesterday. I went on part of it - I have a stupid leg thing right now and after a couple of miles it hurts.

I was struck by a couple of things:

1. I don't think there's good enough communication between immigrants' rights groups and random-activist groups - I didn't see a bunch of people and groups I'd expect to see and that I know care about this issue, and I think that's because of information flow. (FTR, minneapolitans - you can follow MIRAC on facebook to keep up with this stuff.) It was a large march, but I think it would normally have been larger.

2. A brass band joined us partway. Let me tell you, get a brass band if you're organizing a thing - it does lift the spirits.

3. The DACA kids are way, way braver than me and have dealt with some shit. It really made me think, too, since I never even consider anyone's status (why would I? It matters zero percents to my life) about how lots of people are dealing with bullshit while doing all the regular life stuff, working, going to school, etc, and how exhausting it must be.

Ugh, what garbage. I don't even know what next steps are if there isn't at least a stay in six months - mass civil disobedience, I guess. I hate hate hate getting arrested but I guess this will be where it has to be done, since as shitty as previous immigration policies have been (and I want to stress that it was under Obama that someone I know's young cousin was deported and immediately murdered by the gang he'd fled) this is an obvious escalation of the Hitler variety.
posted by Frowner at 6:29 AM on September 6, 2017 [80 favorites]


AwkwardPause: Maggie Williams is no longer at the IOP. It's now an old fogey by the name of Bill Delahunt, in an iterim capacity.

Bill Delahunt is an old Massachusetts pol. He was a county DA for a while, then a Representative for like 15 years. Now he's a lobbyist.

But Williams only took off a year to work for Clinton -- Delahunt it just the interim director, and she should be back "after the end of this calendar year."
posted by wenestvedt at 6:34 AM on September 6, 2017


Another deeply distressing part of this is that since the DACA recipients had to apply for that status, the government now has a complete list of them and their contact info so it can be easily turned over to ICE and the people who had trusted the Obama administration to do the right thing will now be punished for trying to follow rules and do the right thing themselves.

I just want to boost the signal on this. It's a really excellent example of how government lists, compiled under the best of intentions by presidents and leadership who were truly sincere about helping, can be used for ill by the next monster to take power. When people are freaking out about getting their name put on a list, and people think they're unjustifiably paranoid, this is what they are worrying about.

It is especially monstrous because I guarantee at least the parents of every DACA kid knew that. I guarantee each and every DACA kid had at least one older relative who has seen this sort of thing before who said, "Don't do it. They will put your name on a list and then deport you."

And I guarantee at least most of the kids on the list said, "Mom, you're being crazy. This is America."

Aside from everything else that has happened, I mourn the loss of trust for so many that had bright faith before - the trust that everything would be okay and they could safely move through the world without evaluating it for what the worst people could do to you.
posted by corb at 6:53 AM on September 6, 2017 [146 favorites]


It is especially monstrous because I guarantee at least the parents of every DACA kid knew that. I guarantee each and every DACA kid had at least one older relative who has seen this sort of thing before who said, "Don't do it. They will put your name on a list and then deport you."

And I guarantee at least most of the kids on the list said, "Mom, you're being crazy. This is America."

Aside from everything else that has happened, I mourn the loss of trust for so many that had bright faith before - the trust that everything would be okay and they could safely move through the world without evaluating it for what the worst people could do to you.


There's an ugly lesson that's getting taught to us all across the country. I'm not sure what the takeaway is, other than that some white folks are terrified of losing the majority (which they will in 2042) and will do anything to try to stop it. The RNC 2012 Autopsy Report wasn't wrong on the demographic trends they're facing, and they've gone far backward on every group they intended to target:

"If we believe our policies are the best ones to improve the lives of the American people, all the American people, our candidates and office holders need to do a better job talking in normal, people-oriented terms and we need to go to communities where Republicans do not normally go to listen and make our case. We need to campaign among Hispanic, black, Asian, and gay Americans and demonstrate we care about them, too. We must recruit more candidates who come from minority communities."

Good luck with that, guys. The fact that they've given up even trying to do outreach, and instead are focusing primarily on disenfranchisement, speaks volumes.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:01 AM on September 6, 2017 [43 favorites]


corb: Aside from everything else that has happened, I mourn the loss of trust for so many that had bright faith before

I was just coming here to say that, like Paris, this is just one more loud signal to the country and the world that the word of the US is not worth the pixels they're tweeted with.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:10 AM on September 6, 2017 [18 favorites]


Also just now, Kasich on TV telling all immigrants to go to Ohio; it needs and wants them.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:11 AM on September 6, 2017 [38 favorites]


3. The DACA kids are way, way braver than me and have dealt with some shit. It really made me think, too, since I never even consider anyone's status (why would I? It matters zero percents to my life) about how lots of people are dealing with bullshit while doing all the regular life stuff, working, going to school, etc, and how exhausting it must be.

Yep. They attend these demonstrations in spite of their status. I'm scared shitless and stay away from any and all demonstrations because of my status. If I happen to be unable to disperse, get caught in a kettle, unable to escape, and get arrested, just the act of being arrested seriously complicates my ability to renew my status. God forbid they call the protest a riot and then I get something the DHS considers a "crime of violence" on my record. I couldn't cop a plea deal in a lot of cases and rolling the dice at trial is a huge risk.

Even though I'm in the most liberal area of the country the risk to me is utterly terrifying given the consequence of being separated from my wife and my life. I guess it's easier to empathize with undocumented people when you feel the same fears they do from time to time.
posted by Talez at 7:15 AM on September 6, 2017 [38 favorites]


Daily 202/WaPo: The Daily 202: DACA reaction shows how immigration has become a litmus test for Democrats
-- The untold story, though, is the degree to which Democrats are now in lockstep on what not long ago was an issue that divided them. Not a single Democrat in either chamber of Congress has expressed support for getting rid of DACA.

-- This is part of a larger lurch to the left in the Democratic Party on a host of hot-button issues.
No matter where you’re from, it is harder than ever to be a Democratic candidate who is against gun control, abortion rights or single-payer health insurance. That doesn’t mean you cannot be, but one risks losing major donors and drawing the ire of the progressive grass roots – even if you represent a red state.
posted by ZeusHumms at 7:26 AM on September 6, 2017 [42 favorites]


It was kicking around my head during the ACHA bullshit (and for all I know, I absorbed the comparison from someone here) but this is even clearer:

Trump's approach to DACA is basically Dr X's Doomsday Telethon.
posted by SpiffyRob at 7:29 AM on September 6, 2017 [6 favorites]


it is harder than ever to be a Democratic candidate who is against gun control, abortion rights

Is the DNC on board?
posted by Room 641-A at 7:37 AM on September 6, 2017 [15 favorites]


The Democrats right now are in the same position as Republicans were the last few years, it's easy to have litmus tests when there's zero danger of actually taking that vote. 5 Democrats killed the DREAM act. Democrats killed the public option. Democrats gave us sequesteration. If there was actually a vote on DACA, or single payer, or the Hyde Amendment, or free college, I STRONGLY suspect most of the red state Dems would balk at actually voting for it, again. But they know they won't have to put their vote where their mouth is any time in the foreseeable future.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:52 AM on September 6, 2017 [30 favorites]


Hannah Gold/TheSlot.Jezebel: Betsy DeVos Reportedly May Announce Plan to Roll Back Title IX Enforcement This Week
Buzzfeed News reported on Monday that our billionaire, bear-fearing, MRA-loving Education Secretary Betsy DeVos will probably unveil her long-awaited changes to Title IX policy enforcement at George Mason University this Thursday. Federal officials have been describing the event as “centered around equal opportunity and equal protection for all,” which, coming from this administration, is always a sign of something dismal that needs its transparent justification.
I would be happy waiting a few more decades for these changes.
posted by ZeusHumms at 8:13 AM on September 6, 2017 [12 favorites]


Federal officials have been describing the event as “centered around equal opportunity and equal protection for all,” which, coming from this administration, is always a sign of something dismal that needs its transparent justification.

It's kind of like how there's nothing wrong with democracy, or people, or republics, but whenever any country starts adding those modifiers to their name you know there's going to be some shit.
posted by corb at 8:20 AM on September 6, 2017 [37 favorites]


I've been in-and-out (more out than in because work is insanity right now) of these threads for a bit, but did y'all already discuss This American Life this week and it's portrait of the straight up Downton Abbey bullshit DeVos perpetrates around Grand Rapids?
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:24 AM on September 6, 2017 [7 favorites]


Former Republican Max Boot writing for WaPo instead of his in usual space at Foreign Policy...
"Last year I experienced the first sustained anti-Semitism I have ever encountered in the United States. Like many other anti-Trump commentators, I was deluged with neo-Nazi propaganda on social media, including a picture of me in a gas chamber, with Herr Trump in a Nazi uniform pulling the lever to kill me. This was accompanied by predictable demands that I leave this country to "real" Americans and go back to where I came from — or, alternatively, to Israel.

At one time it was easy to dismiss such sentiments as the ravings of a handful of marginal losers. That's harder to do now that the president of the United States has embraced the far-right agenda. Trump came to office vilifying Mexicans and Muslims. As president, he has praised the protesters who marched with neo-Nazis in Charlottesville as "very fine people" and come out against taking down Confederate monuments, symbols of white supremacy. He has pardoned former sheriff Joe Arpaio, who became a symbol of racism and lawlessness for locking up Latinos, in defiance of a court order, simply on the suspicion that they might be undocumented immigrants. And now Trump has set in motion the end of the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) program, which prevents 800,000 law-abiding people from being deported because their parents brought them to the United States illegally."
...
"They are redefining what it means to be an American. The old idea that anyone who embraces America's ideals can become an American is out. A White House aide has even repudiated the words on the Statue of Liberty: "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free." Instead, American-ness is being redefined in blood-and-soil terms. I find myself increasingly forced to think of my ethnic identity instead of the national identity I adopted as a boy in 1976. That is discomfiting for me, and a tragedy for America."
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:36 AM on September 6, 2017 [74 favorites]


And while you are at it, it was Joe Lieberman, not a Democrat, who killed the single-payer option.

And of the 5 Democrats who voted against the DREAMER Act, 4 have been replaced by Republicans.
posted by JackFlash at 8:37 AM on September 6, 2017 [37 favorites]


did y'all already discuss This American Life this week and it's portrait of the straight up Downton Abbey bullshit DeVos perpetrates around Grand Rapids?

I heard parts of that. Nice job whitewashing her reputation, talking about her mentee.
posted by ZeusHumms at 8:49 AM on September 6, 2017 [4 favorites]


BREAKING NEWS: "There is a new and seems to be record-breaking hurricane [heading] toward Florida and Puerto Rico and other places," President Trump told reporters in the Oval Office. "It looks like it could be something that will be not good. Believe me, not good."

This marks the first time the President has used the phrase "believe me" in conjunction with a factual statement. Is this the pivot?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:51 AM on September 6, 2017 [27 favorites]


National Treasure Alexandra Petri, WaPo: Trump’s America is a nightmare. There can be no dreamers here.
The “dreamers” are being ruled out, but the Nightmare People are still here, and they continue to be in charge of everything.

The nightmare — the one where you are naked in front of the whole class, where you have to give an important speech, but you don’t remember any words and the classroom is every important person in the world — is president now. Failing a test you didn’t know you had to study for is the chief executive of the United States.

The unshakeable sense that you are being persecuted is in charge of the Justice Department. In fact, it just announced this change in policy. The man with a slow eerie smile that you thought you got rid of in the ’80s is somehow back, standing behind a lectern, his smile growing wider and wider, even when you blink. How did he get here? You could have sworn—

The thing that lives under the bed has the president’s phone number and sometimes speaks for him at news conferences.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:51 AM on September 6, 2017 [61 favorites]


If you remember anything about the 2011 budget talks, sequesteration was proposed by Obama as a stick to bring Republicans to the negotiating table. Except Republcians were never going to negotiate to avoid the supposed penalty of the sequester, because it gave them exactly what they wanted all along, massive spending cuts. The sequester was the perfect case of Obama, supported by Democrats, preemptively surrending to Republicans and negotiating against themselves. That's why I used it as an example of Democrats utterly failing to uphold their supposed liberal policy goals, which should have been to demand adequate funding of the government, not give in to Republican demands for ever more cuts forever and ever.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:52 AM on September 6, 2017 [21 favorites]


And while you are at it, it was Joe Lieberman, not a Democrat, who killed the single-payer option.

Got me there, he was only the 2000 Democratic VP candidate and won a spite campaign as an independent after losing in the primary. I'd bet any amount of money Lieberman in 2009 was substantially more liberal than several sitting Democratic Senators in 2017.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:56 AM on September 6, 2017 [2 favorites]


TAL's bit on DeVos was every thing I don't get about 'conservatives/republicans.' On the one hand her impulse is essentially positive - I will help these people. But fails to make the next step, 'what do these people need most?' Instead she hires them on. Similar with the schools, instead of making the school better, she takes the kids to a different school.
There's a certain ... coldness there that I just can't get behind. It's worth a listen but jarring.
posted by From Bklyn at 9:01 AM on September 6, 2017 [9 favorites]


Longread on the current NYT front page about this very issue in Michigan.
posted by Melismata at 9:07 AM on September 6, 2017 [3 favorites]


If you remember anything about the 2011 budget talks, sequesteration was proposed by Obama as a stick to bring Republicans to the negotiating table. Except Republcians were never going to negotiate to avoid the supposed penalty of the sequester, because it gave them exactly what they wanted all along, massive spending cuts.

The catch for the GOP was supposed to be that the sequester also hit the military spending they love so much. Problem was, all the Republican Party in 2009-2016 wanted was to make sure Barack Obama got as few policy "wins" as possible, regardless of how it might hurt their other supposed priorities. If Obama hadn't tried the sequester, and instead suggested a bill where, unless Congress could reach a spending agreement government officials would start throwing live puppies off the Capitol roof, the Freedom Caucus would have blocked any deal unless it would defund Planned Parenthood. And then once the Puppy Sequester kicked in, they'd campaign on puppies being terrorist sympathizers.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:08 AM on September 6, 2017 [2 favorites]


In the past I've thought of Republicans as a cult, but currently I think of them like junkies for power. They crave the feeling of domination more than anything, and they will literally burn down the world, trash the futures of their kids, grandkids and constituents, and betray every value they have ever claimed to hold, every ally or friend they ever had, in order to get it.

It's the only explanation that fits their actions to me right now.
posted by emjaybee at 9:15 AM on September 6, 2017 [26 favorites]


There's a certain ... coldness there that I just can't get behind. It's worth a listen but jarring.

I don't want to be a bigot or overgeneralize about other people's religions, but DeVos is a devoted member of the Christian Reformed Church, sometimes called Dutch Calvinism, and there is a utilitarian, sink or swim mentality that goes along with the faith, which could be seen as coldness.
posted by cell divide at 9:18 AM on September 6, 2017 [12 favorites]


At least some good news for Washingtonians today: Rep Dave Reichert (R-WA 08) just announced he won't be running for reelection in 2018.

Lots of kudos goes to the Indivisible WA8 group, who early on made it their primary focus to oppose and challenge Reichert, to the point where they specifically made the ask for other local Indivisible groups to pick up their slack on other local, state, and federal causes.

They also posted the best photo during their "Where's Dave?" Town Hall pursuit: https://twitter.com/Indivisible_WA8/status/898698492125761536
posted by orbit-3 at 9:40 AM on September 6, 2017 [32 favorites]


I read "Big Water" as "Big Muddy", as in, the big fool says to march on.
posted by notsnot at 9:44 AM on September 6, 2017 [7 favorites]


It's pretty clear to me that what De Vos wants is to only help people she deems worthy. And for that, she has to know them personally, assess them personally, and direct them personally the way she wants them to go in order to continue their "improvement." Notice she sent those kids to Christian schools, not private nonsectarian schools. It's a creepy as fuck noblesse oblige master/servant dynamic.

It's the same impulse you see with lots of conservatives, only writ ginormous because she's a billionaire. They do not want a single solitary penny going to someone who isn't "deserving" by whatever personal metric they have devised (this is how they define "freedom"), and if that means no one gets anything, well, then, that's the price society has to pay.

My impression of De Vos isn't that she's unfeeling and uncaring, it's that she's just dumb, on top of being a religious whackaloon. She can't comprehend that her model of assistance to even the deserving (by her definition) poor does not scale up. How many Betsy De Vos's does this country need in order to provide a quality education and quality employment to every single hardworking, clean-nosed impoverished family? (Answer: more Betsy De Vos's than we actually have.)
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:45 AM on September 6, 2017 [47 favorites]


Josh Marshall (TPM): An Opening in Trump’s Flail?
But President Trump can’t even leave it at that. In his latest tweet, he says “Congress now has 6 months to legalize DACA (something the Obama Administration was unable to do). If they can’t, I will revisit this issue!”

Let’s unpack this.

Does President Trump want to end DACA? He seems to see the consequences of ending DACA as something it is incumbent on Congress to fix. He gives no sense that he’d veto such an effort – which is what you’d expect if he were really behind the substance of his decision to rescind DACA. Indeed, he puts it forward as another way he might best President Obama – getting the substance of DACA enacted as law. But the real kicker is: if Congress can’t get it together, he will “revisit the issue.”

This is highly odd. The whole premise is that DACA had no legal grounding. A President had no ability to act in this way. President Obama exceeded his presidential authority. In other words, President Trump now seems to be saying he will go back and try to resolve this matter through a new executive action even though the premise of everything that’s happened in the last 72 hours is that the President has no such power. [...]

One of Trump’s cardinal impulses is to hurt people. A secondary impulse is to make deals if he agrees not to hurt people. In other words, a typical gangster. But in this case, he very clearly seems very wary of getting blamed for the human suffering that his actions will cause. This looks like a real opening for those who want to save DACA – or at least the substance of it in legislation – and the hundreds of thousands it has protected.
I would add a third impulse to his behavior: The desire to be liked and admired. I think he must know--at least on some level--that ending DACA will reflect very poorly on him, so he's trying to pass the buck to Congress. He also probably knows that the people who "like" him the most are the ones who want this policy to end, but that everyone else will be super pissed. He just does not want them to be pissed at him.

I am not sure how exactly to leverage this into preserving DACA or producing positive legislation. However, I think somehow we can use his desire to be liked to help protect DREAMers and immigrants. It's a long shot, but it may be worth trying to exploit this crack in the armor.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:49 AM on September 6, 2017 [32 favorites]


there is a utilitarian, sink or swim mentality that goes along with the faith, which could be seen as coldness.

In the way that my kitchen table could be seen as a kitchen table?
posted by thelonius at 9:52 AM on September 6, 2017 [34 favorites]


Longread on the current NYT front page about this very issue in Michigan.
posted by Melismata at 9:07 AM on September 6 [1 favorite −] Favorite added! [!]


Great read, Melismata. Should mention the journalist, MARK BINELLI.
posted by Mental Wimp at 9:54 AM on September 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


In the way that my kitchen table could be seen as a kitchen table?

You say fucking cold as shit, I say fuck shit is cold...
posted by From Bklyn at 10:00 AM on September 6, 2017 [2 favorites]


Some good news for 2018 in Washington-08.

@eyokley
.@davereichert will not seek re-election, per his office. #WA08 [statement]

@Nate_Cohn (NYT) Retweeted Eli Yokley
Wow. Reichert is probably the single most valuable retirement for the Democrats in their pursuit of the House.
- I (believe) Reichert is the only representative who carried Gore/Kerry district in '06, '08, Obama/Clinton district in '12 and '16.
- He won with 60% of the vote in '16 and hadn't attracted a very strong challenger. Despite horrible national envi, Reichert would be favorite
- FWIW, still not a slam dunk for Democrats. Downballot GOP does better. But there aren't many slam dunk Dem retirement options
posted by chris24 at 10:04 AM on September 6, 2017 [19 favorites]


I don't want to be a bigot or overgeneralize about other people's religions, but DeVos is a devoted member of the Christian Reformed Church, sometimes called Dutch Calvinism, and there is a utilitarian, sink or swim mentality that goes along with the faith, which could be seen as coldness.

Predestination plays a major part in their theology. Christians are the Elect, chosen by God for salvation. When I was active in a similar denomination one joking nickname for us was the "frozen chosen".
posted by scalefree at 10:20 AM on September 6, 2017 [7 favorites]


Sets up a holiday shut down / debt limit fight, Merry Christmas!
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:21 AM on September 6, 2017 [1 favorite]




When I was active in a similar denomination one joking nickname for us was the "frozen chosen".

Funny, I've heard the same name applied to Jews in Minnesota.
posted by Faint of Butt at 10:23 AM on September 6, 2017 [8 favorites]


Funny, I've heard the same name applied to Jews in Minnesota.

So only when the Senate isn't in session?
posted by Talez at 10:26 AM on September 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


Re Betsy DeVos, this is your periodical reminder that she is Eric Prince's sister and they bad people.
posted by Room 641-A at 10:26 AM on September 6, 2017 [71 favorites]


When I was active in a similar denomination one joking nickname for us was the "frozen chosen".
posted by scalefree at 10:20 AM on September 6 [2 favorites +] [!]


You know who else calls themselves the Frozen Chosen?
posted by Mental Wimp at 10:29 AM on September 6, 2017 [4 favorites]


or whether that's Trump playing dealmaker and not understanding what he's actually doing or capable of doing

The president has no idea what the president's abilities are, and has no interest in what responsibilities the president has traditionally taken on. However, his advisors *do* know the limit of his legal powers, and they are feeding him agenda items couched in language to appeal to his racist, glory-seeking biases, and hoping that he doesn't announce a mangled version of those plans to the press.

Just because he has no idea what he's doing, doesn't mean "plans from the White House" are incoherent and random.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 10:30 AM on September 6, 2017 [6 favorites]


Aw, jinx, Faint...
posted by Mental Wimp at 10:30 AM on September 6, 2017 [3 favorites]


chris24: "Some good news for 2018 in Washington-08.


Yes, this is an excellent Dem pickup opportunity. Also, anecdotally, one high-profile retirement often seems to trigger others to follow suit.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:32 AM on September 6, 2017 [5 favorites]


Re Betsy DeVos, this is your periodical reminder that she is Eric Prince's sister and they bad people.

Also that their dad was a billionaire, and then she married the son of a billionaire, so her concept of money is probably about the same as my concept of krill -- other entities find it very important, and I can identify it from pictures, but I have never so much as needed to care about it personally.
posted by Etrigan at 10:34 AM on September 6, 2017 [94 favorites]


wenestvedt:

This is probably way in the weeds on idiosyncratic issues of the leadership of the Institute of Politics at Harvard, but Maggie Williams is gone for good. Delahunt is interim while they search for a new director.
posted by AwkwardPause at 10:34 AM on September 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


“Impeachment,” he says, “people don’t even know what that means. Or there’s that clause in the 25th Amendment where if the president goes insane, a majority of the Cabinet can remove him, or at least turn the powers over to the vice-president. People talk about that like it’s a real thing. Like they’re really going to do that. By now, most Republicans — because they’re only a year away from their election in the House, and a third of the Senate — they have done polling in their districts, and they have learned that being associated with Trump or having Trump as the standard-bearer of their party will not cost them their seat next year. They’ve done such an excellent job of gerrymandering their districts that even though people may not like Trump that much by this time next year, it will not affect them. It will affect a few, in some of the purple districts. Democrats will pick up a few seats, that’s just true historically, but … He just has to win his Electoral College states, and he doesn’t need to win all the ones he had, because what did he have, 304? And you need 270? He’s not going to lose 35 electoral votes.
The Thankless Task of Being Michael Moore: "He’s been right about everything before, and he really thinks you are living in a bubble."
posted by kirkaracha at 10:37 AM on September 6, 2017 [11 favorites]


He’s been right about everything before

Except for, you know, President Romney in 2012.
posted by chris24 at 10:40 AM on September 6, 2017 [23 favorites]


Another deeply distressing part of this is that since the DACA recipients had to apply for that status, the government now has a complete list of them and their contact info so it can be easily turned over to ICE and the people who had trusted the Obama administration to do the right thing will now be punished for trying to follow rules and do the right thing themselves.

Echoing this, too. I think this is one of the most devastating effects of Trump's actions on this so far, whatever the eventual outcomes. The massive, deep loss of trust in "the government" will take generations to repair, and it's much worse than merely "don't trust the government because the government is power and power is never trustworthy," it's now "never trust the government because even if it's run by great, moral people now, that will not last and bad people will get control of whatever the good people made."

That's going to be really difficult to repair, and will likely cause damage for decades and in ways we don't expect: first, because the government is us, it entrenches mistrust of one another very deeply; and second, because it will make us very cynical about creating or building anything good and useful and helpful, out of fear that it will be later be used to harm us.

I am incandescent with rage over the threat to revoke DACA--it affects several hundred students on my campus alone*--but today am also trying to cope with a growing despair and sorrow over the fundamental destruction that Trump and his ilk have already wrought, that will take generations to repair, beyond the immediate, more obvious harm and damage they are causing.

* - Because of that, last January, we started many conversations within our governance structures about what to do, what we can do, should DACA be rescinded, should ICE agents show up on campus, etc. One important point of concern was that our database of student information included DACA status, as that was salient for several positive, helpful reasons. I say 'included,' because when I look up student data in the system now, that particular information is no longer available for some reason. Unrelated to this, have I mentioned how much I like our campus IT unit? Those guys are great, smart and hard-working. Interestingly, many of them are from families who immigrated here, or are immigrants themselves.
posted by LooseFilter at 10:41 AM on September 6, 2017 [59 favorites]


Fun fact: Maggie Williams and Kellyanne Conway share the same undergrad alma mater.
posted by jgirl at 10:41 AM on September 6, 2017


When compiling lists of evil things that Betsy DeVos is connected to, let it never be forgotten that she married a guy whose family fortune was generated by the creation of the Amway pyramid scheme.
posted by xyzzy at 10:41 AM on September 6, 2017 [48 favorites]


Democracy Fund poll:
Among all Trump voters, the president’s approval rating remains high: The vast majority, 88%, approved of the job he is doing as president. But there is erosion among voters who backed Barack Obama in 2012 but switched to Trump in 2016. Only 70% of those Obama-Trump voters approved of the job the president is doing. And 22% disapproved — a rate more than twice the 9% of all Trump voters who disapproved.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:42 AM on September 6, 2017 [3 favorites]


NYT: Prominent Republicans Urge Supreme Court to End Gerrymandering

Interesting, I think, because Roberts and Kennedy both have reputations of playing the "keeping an eye on history" game. If they get cover from the right - in addition to this brief, there was one from the guy who created the Wisconsin gerrymander! - it may be easier for them to rule against gerrymandering.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:49 AM on September 6, 2017 [6 favorites]


"But there is erosion among voters who backed Barack Obama in 2012 but switched to Trump in 2016."

DOES NOT COMPUTE HURTS MY BRAIN WHAT IS WRONG WITH EVERYTHING STOP IT NOW
posted by Hairy Lobster at 10:50 AM on September 6, 2017 [10 favorites]


Nelson, "Ha-ha."
posted by kirkaracha at 10:54 AM on September 6, 2017 [5 favorites]


Is this the part of the story when Trump's narcissism finally bites Republicans in the ass?
posted by Glibpaxman at 10:55 AM on September 6, 2017 [2 favorites]


So Trump blowing off the entire GOP and siding with Cryin' Chuck and Lyin' Nancy is probably a big deal (although not categorically surprising for Trump) but is the three-month vs 18-month extension that much of a strategic advantage for the Dems?
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 10:57 AM on September 6, 2017 [5 favorites]


Is this true? It seems inconsistent with polling I've seen, and which has been posted here. Also seems inconsistent with a lot of Republicans publicly distancing themselves from DJT's statements.

So I still get newsletters and Facebook stuff from the local Republican Party, despite the fact that I resigned my position and have been quite vocal about my opinions on our current "leader". And most of the chatter is about "how dare these people be disloyal to Dear Leader Trump, we will primary them and drive them out of office." Moderate Republicans are being driven out or declining to run because they don't want to deal with the angry hordes. But also -

I think most people who identified as a Republican pre-2016, who lived through that election hoping that Trump would be defeated and normalcy restored, only to see him win and seem permanently to exist, are both exhausted and doesn't know what to do with themselves, politically. I mean, I know I don't. I call senators and such but I don't really know which way to focus my organizing. Inside the Republican Party? With the Libertarians? With a new party entirely? We are largely (and for understandable reasons) distrusted on the Dem side, so our choices in engagement are limited.

So rank-and-file elected Republicans don't need to worry about us. They just need to worry about the loud, noisy people who are going to campaign for or against them. There are enough people not paying enough attention that they're pretty sure they'll be re-elected - but even if they're not, they know that being primaried is a /sure/ way to lose their seat, while not being primaried is only a /possible/ way of losing their seat. And I think they're making that calculation and choosing wrongly.
posted by corb at 10:59 AM on September 6, 2017 [26 favorites]


NBC News: Steve King: Dreamers Can ‘Live in the Shadows’ After DACA Ends

"They came here to live in the shadows and we’re not denying them that opportunity to live in the shadows."

Monsters.
posted by Rust Moranis at 11:03 AM on September 6, 2017 [72 favorites]


Is this true? It seems inconsistent with polling I've seen, and which has been posted here. Also seems inconsistent with a lot of Republicans publicly distancing themselves from DJT's statements.

What's missing is some confirmation that Moore has seen this internal polling, or if he's just talking out his ass.
posted by jason_steakums at 11:03 AM on September 6, 2017 [5 favorites]


Monsters.

Yes, just so, of course. Unfortunately, as I believe I've already told Steve King that he can go fuck himself in the eye forever, I don't have much room for escalation.
posted by adamgreenfield at 11:05 AM on September 6, 2017 [21 favorites]


In other DACA news, fuck you, Steve King.

“They came here to live in the shadows and we’re not denying them that opportunity to live in the shadows,” King told NBC News when asked about where immigrants would go after their authorizations under the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program expire.
posted by hanov3r at 11:06 AM on September 6, 2017


In Room 641-A's link to the WaPo story on the Harvey Relief/debt ceiling bill, they mentioned, "the bill could pass without a majority of the majority party — violating an informal rule" and "that most House Republicans could oppose a combined bill, violating an informal rule dictating that only measures supported by a majority of GOP members be brought to a vote."

It kinda pisses me off that they are talking about the so-called Hastert Rule, named after admitted serial child molester J. Dennis Hastert, who was once the Republican Speaker of the House. Seriously, it should never be forgotten the sort of people the Republicans have put into that role, least of all a man who sexually assaulted many children. It kind of bothers me that the WaPo are sanitizing history like that.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 11:06 AM on September 6, 2017 [53 favorites]


I know a lot of people wish Pelosi were more ideologically pure but she is an effing smart player of this game.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 11:06 AM on September 6, 2017 [67 favorites]


Prominent Republicans Urge Supreme Court to End Gerrymandering

Based on past performance I'm forced to assume that the republicans involved are worried that the current system might soon benefit Democrats.
posted by Room 641-A at 11:06 AM on September 6, 2017 [13 favorites]


They came here to live in the shadows and we’re not denying them that opportunity to live in the shadows.

They didn't come here for anything. They were brought here.

I emigrated to the US as a three-year-old. I know how the Dreamers feel about this country--their country. These people are truly monsters incapable of empathy.
posted by soren_lorensen at 11:09 AM on September 6, 2017 [81 favorites]


We are largely (and for understandable reasons) distrusted on the Dem side,...

Come on in. The water's fine.
posted by Mental Wimp at 11:10 AM on September 6, 2017 [6 favorites]


I'm not a huge fan of obstruction, gerrymandering, racism and such, so count me out on restoring "normalcy". What we have right now is exactly what republicans of all stripes have been working towards for 30 or 40 years.

If the republicans were dogs (and I'm sorry, my four-legged friends, for the comparison), turns out when you catch the car, it's nowhere near as much fun as chasing it.
posted by maxwelton at 11:12 AM on September 6, 2017 [7 favorites]


is the three-month vs 18-month extension that much of a strategic advantage for the Dems?

Yes. It's going to keep funding and must pass bills on the legislative calendar pretty much the rest of 2017, eating up a ton of time Republicans wanted to spend on tax "reform". It also sets up Dems with a fiscal cliff situation in December that they can try to use to get a DACA bill passed along with keeping the lights on, Republican hardball style. That's exactly what Ryan and McConnell wanted to avoid. Trump is just hilariously bad at this.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:13 AM on September 6, 2017 [64 favorites]


Yes, just so, of course. Unfortunately, as I believe I've already told Steve King that he can go fuck himself in the eye forever, I don't have much room for escalation.

You could wish diphallism upon him.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:17 AM on September 6, 2017 [15 favorites]


Unfortunately, as I believe I've already told Steve King that he can go fuck himself in the eye forever, I don't have much room for escalation.

Eyes, as I recall, generally come in pairs.

And there are more holes than that in his head, not even counting the ones he drilled himself.
posted by delfin at 11:19 AM on September 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


Echoing what corb said, I know several "liberal" Republicans here in liberal Massachusetts, where it's hard to be anything more. They describe themselves as "fiscally conservative, socially liberal," i.e. don't believe in welfare "handouts" but are fine with everything else, gay marriage, abortions, etc. They don't know what to do either, except continue to take abuse from bleeding liberals and say "yeah, I know, I don't like him either." I wish they had more of a voice and/or spine to take the party back from the crazies.

This, at best, is malfeasance by way of ignorance. At worst, he's not answering because he doesn't want to say what Steve King is saying.

No, at worst, he has no idea what he's talking about and is just talking out of his ass until his next golf game or tv show. Why does the media keep asking him questions that they know he can't answer? Why can't they focus instead on LOOK WHAT A COMPLETE IDIOT THIS IS LET'S GET RID OF HIM? They are wasting their time continuing to expect that he's going to act presidential.
posted by Melismata at 11:19 AM on September 6, 2017 [7 favorites]


Sure would be nice if Steve King had to live in the shadows. If he couldn't lead a normal, open life; if he were afraid to be noticed by the local government or even seen in public; if he knew that at any time he could be grabbed by quasi-military thugs, imprisoned/enslaved/tortured in a camp, and then deported to a country where he did not speak the language, there to live out his days in poverty and danger, never to see his family again. It's what he came here to do, after all.
posted by Rust Moranis at 11:20 AM on September 6, 2017 [35 favorites]


@jdawsey1: Democratic aide just told me they are wary of celebrating deal too much publicly because Trump might see it & grow angry or change his mind.

As much as it is utterly irresponsible governing to raise the debit ceiling for only three months, it's a hell of a play by Pelosi and Schumer to ensure that Democrats continue to have complete leverage over everything in three months. And it's entirely of the Republicans own making: they don't have the votes to avoid default on their own. Perpetual crisis mode is bad for everyone, but if we're going to have it, the game is being played well here. The question is whether Trump did this to spite Ryan and McConnell, or whether he just honestly has no idea what he did.

But meanwhile, Peter Sullivan reports that McCain backs Graham-Cassidy ObamaCare repeal effort and his whole push for regular order doesn't mean anything. It's not clear that this is going to be a thing, the GOP leadership hasn't shown much in the way of interest right now, but if the Governors start making noise, something could start to happen here. However, McCain notably refused to say whether he would back the bill under reconciliation.

@Frank Thorp (NBC News): "Aide briefed on WH mtg says @IvankaTrump entered Oval to say hello, and GOP leaders were visibly annoyed by her presence."

@swin24: There's one Hill aide telling every dc reporter who will listen about @IvankaTrump butting in on the meeting & the subsequent "careening" [off topic]

I do think it's pretty hilarious that there's one aide shopping this story everywhere. Hilariously great.
posted by zachlipton at 11:20 AM on September 6, 2017 [37 favorites]


Why does the media keep asking him questions that they know he can't answer? Why can't they focus instead on LOOK WHAT A COMPLETE IDIOT THIS IS LET'S GET RID OF HIM?

asking him these questions is an effective way to demonstrate what a complete idiot he is.
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:27 AM on September 6, 2017 [16 favorites]


Trump Sides With Democrats In Deal On Storm Relief And Fiscal Deadlines (Sept. 6, 2017)
"We discussed that also today, and Chuck and Nancy would like to see something happen, and so do I,"Trump said. "And I said if we can get something to happen, we're going to sign it and we're going to make a lot of happy people."

Pelosi and Schumer said in their statement that "we also made it clear that we strongly believe the DREAM Act must come to the floor and pass as soon as possible and we will not rest until we get this done."
Up next: full press on DREAM Act support from the Dems?
posted by filthy light thief at 11:27 AM on September 6, 2017 [5 favorites]


"They came here to live in the shadows and we’re not denying them that opportunity to live in the shadows."

I realize I'm used to reading badness into everything that jackwagons like King say, but he's saying that immigrants are cockroaches here, isn't he? Like, really loudly blowing into the dogwhistle so it's still kinda audible to regular humans too?
posted by Etrigan at 11:27 AM on September 6, 2017 [21 favorites]


He "Hasn't discussed" it = his handler(s) hasn't told him what to say, obviously.
posted by ArgentCorvid at 11:28 AM on September 6, 2017 [3 favorites]


I do think it's pretty hilarious that there's one aide shopping this [negative Ivanka] story everywhere. Hilariously great.

In my head, it's Jared.
posted by chris24 at 11:31 AM on September 6, 2017 [12 favorites]


New Mexico Attorney General Pledges To Block Trump's Action On DACA (NPR, Sept. 5, 2017) -- NPR's Robert Siegel talks with New Mexico Attorney General Hector Balderas, a Democrat, who says he will use "all means necessary" to block President Trump's action on DACA
SIEGEL: And in your case, what does all means necessary mean?

BALDERAS: Well, I do believe that there will be various states attorneys general across the country that will take legal action to defend the DREAMers. They are as American as Melania Trump. They have complied with rules. And more importantly, this is a much broader debate. Rather than immigration, this is about protecting the American dream and the Constitution.
Daaamn, Balderas!
posted by filthy light thief at 11:32 AM on September 6, 2017 [88 favorites]


You know, I think supporting DACA is a start, but since we're pushing, let's push for a full path to citizenship for the Dreamers. If they're citizens, they can't be treated like political footballs by the Republicans anymore. This is their country, too. DACA doesn't go far enough.

Up next: full press on DREAM Act support from the Dems?

Again, yes, an excellent start. Still, permanent residency isn't the same as citizenship. Let's push for the whole ball of wax.
posted by Joey Michaels at 11:32 AM on September 6, 2017 [31 favorites]


They came here to live in the shadows and we’re not denying them that opportunity to live in the shadows

In the original German: "Sie sind willkommen in der Nacht und Nebel zu leben."
posted by kirkaracha at 11:32 AM on September 6, 2017 [25 favorites]


he's saying that immigrants are cockroaches here, isn't he?

Yes, just this. Really — not to be hyperbolic — we're just the tiniest smidge away from the kind of radically dehumanizing cockroach/rat/virus/swarming filth rhetoric that's well-known as a leading indicator of the slide toward genocide. We need to watch this kind of public speech with the most exceeding care, and identify and shame those responsible for it. It's unbecoming of any of us, let alone someone charged with the solemn duty of representing their fellow citizens.
posted by adamgreenfield at 11:33 AM on September 6, 2017 [67 favorites]


I know how and why Ivanka is laying low, but I find it more conspicuous that Jared, who was last seen bringing peace to the middle East, has been MIA.

I also think it's interesting that Ivana hasn't said a peep in defense of her notorious and awful children.
posted by Room 641-A at 11:34 AM on September 6, 2017 [2 favorites]


Based on past performance I'm forced to assume that the republicans involved are worried that the current system might soon benefit Democrats.

They're not expressing a newly found commitment to the principle of fairness in elections, that's for sure.
posted by scalefree at 11:35 AM on September 6, 2017 [3 favorites]


Well, I do believe that there will be various states attorneys general

States attorneys general various, surely.
posted by adamgreenfield at 11:37 AM on September 6, 2017 [17 favorites]


Accidental shade for days from NPR: Correction: An earlier tweet about the hurricane relief deal mistakenly identified Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer as Majority Leader.

This whole deal is going to blow up in a billion pieces once Trump realizes what he did, right?
posted by zachlipton at 11:37 AM on September 6, 2017 [10 favorites]


Maybe if Dems retake the House in 2018 we can trick him into supporting single payer. The "best case" argument for Trump from the left prior to the election was that he was stupid and pliable. Today is the first time that argument has seen any life since he's been in office. Chip away at the white nationalists around him and maybe there's a slimmer of hope through stupidity after all.

At least until impeachment begins.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:37 AM on September 6, 2017 [5 favorites]


a slimmer of hope

:(
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:42 AM on September 6, 2017 [6 favorites]


they could just not be Republicans anymore.

Hear, hear. I left back before W was the standard bearer. I was appalled then at the way the party was becoming a mouthpiece for the Xian right. My last event as a Republican was over 20 years ago, a conference where 1) we had to sit through an endless prayer about Jesus, with no acknowledgment of the right to think differently about religion and then 2) we were treated to a speaker who said Joe McCarthy was right. I gave my loudest Boston style hiss and stalked out. And that was it for me. How anyone in the party can endure the naked racism these days is beyond me.
posted by bearwife at 11:45 AM on September 6, 2017 [43 favorites]


And also bodes very well for those who enjoy seeing fractures in the GOP caucus multiply and deepen. This was was a pretty good move by Dem leadership today!
posted by notyou at 11:50 AM on September 6, 2017 [2 favorites]


Scholars Say White Supremacists ... Got History Wrong (NPR, Sept. 4, 2017 -- title edited for accuracy, and humor) -- White supremacists using Crusaders' crosses and other medieval imagery on their homemade shields say the time period is an ideal of a white Europe. But medieval scholars say the white supremacists are wrong and the scholars are fighting back.
LISA FAGIN DAVIS: There was one young man who was carrying a shield with a black spread eagle that was clearly co-opted from either the Holy Roman Empire or - there's actually a saint. And it's kind of ironic. He's an African saint who carries that standard. And I suspect the gentleman carrying the shield didn't realize that.

ULABY: That was St. Maurice, revered during the medieval period. He came from Egypt. After Charlottesville, Davis and her colleagues published a statement on the Medieval Academy blog.

DAVIS: (Reading) As scholars of the medieval world, we're disturbed by the use of a nostalgic but inaccurate myth of the Middle Ages by racist movements in the United States.
Read more from Medievalists Respond to Charlottesville, a blog post from The Medieval Academy Blog, posted on Aug. 18, 2017.

And there's a great article titled SIGILLUM SECRETUM (Secret Seal): On the image of the Blackamoor in European Heraldry by Mario de Valdes y Cocom on PBS Frontline:
In addition to St. Maurice, there is also another figure connected to the blackamoor coat of arms. It is the semi-mythical Negus (emperor) of Ethiopia, Prester John. To Otto von Freising an Imperial Hohenstauffen Prince Bishop of the 12th century who was tired and torn by the endless struggle between Church and State, this black man who was both priest and king and ruled a land of peace and plenty at the edge of the world became the personification of the ideal state. To this day the arms of the see of Freising is the bust of a crowned blackamoor.
...
The relationship of the black image to the concept of justice was nowhere more politically utilized than with the Holy Roman emperors of the Hohenstauffern dynasty. Indeed, it would appear that the sable blazon of the imperial eagle and that of the moor's head were meant to be perceived as synonymous. The simple headbands worn by both are, as a matter of fact, identical and, interestingly enough, nothing less, despite the simplicity of the design, than the imperial diadem' of ancient Rome. Also interesting is the fantastic coat of arms attributed to Ethiopia by the heralds of the middle ages. For like the bicephalic bird of the Holy Roman Empire, Ethiopia bore a 'v' shaped emblem with a blackamoor's head 'torsed' at the end of each arm.
(Emphasis mine) That double-headed eagle is representative of justice, and the "German" image was inspired by an Ethiopian saint. So next time you see a Nazi with the double-headed or imperial eagle, the Reichsadler, you can ask them if they're also a fan of Saint Maurice, the Christian from Ethiopia.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:51 AM on September 6, 2017 [43 favorites]


All the "boding" leaves us amateur political prognosticators a way to wiggle out when it all goes to shit after this evening's tweetstorm.
posted by notyou at 11:55 AM on September 6, 2017 [2 favorites]


You don't even have to make a big deal about it. Just quietly drop party registration. Stop signing up for Republican mailing lists and stop sending them money. Be lapsed about it, and then later move on to something else

That's what a lot of us are doing, but what I'm saying is I think it's ultimately a waste of our time, skills, and effort, and I wish there were a better way for us to be politically involved post-Trump.

To give a concrete example: just this past month, I got a phone call from a Republican friend who is running for a nonpartisan tiny local office. This is the sort of office that usually doesn't have much competition, and usually everyone is putting their energies elsewhere.

This event turned out to be the most well-heeled, best-attended, TinyLocal event that I have ever seen in the history of organizing, because all the people that usually organize together for state or national candidates are so exhausted and angry with the Party that these tiny, nonpartisan offices are the only places they can sanely spend their time and effort. Because a lot of these connections are local and loyal, the people who usually turn these hard workers out for big races are moving them to small ones.

And yeah, you can raise a cheer and say "sweet, they won't be working on the 2018 election", and that is true, but if the 2016 election showed us anything, it's that it's not enough for that 10% or whatever the number is of Republicans to just stop voting Republican and kind of drop out - if they're not actively involved in something else, there's enough of a gap that the enemy can win.

And so I'd really like to solve "where is a good place for more conservative anti-Trump organizers" because I would like to put those people, those connections and networks, to better use than "man, I'm not giving a dime to the State party, how about you? Nah, me either."
posted by corb at 11:56 AM on September 6, 2017 [13 favorites]


this "bodes well for anyone not Republican" stuff strikes me a lot like "this is good for bitcoin"

What do you mean? Bitcoin's doing extraordinarily well. Wish I had some.
posted by Coventry at 11:56 AM on September 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


And a reminder: Trump's Nominee To Be USDA's Chief Scientist Is Not A Scientist, but a racist, homophobic talk radio host and blogger. (NPR, Sept. 4, 2017)

Ladies and gentlemen, I present the Sam Clovis factor: Scientist? No. Skilled in the science of influencing Trump? Yes. (Helena Bottemiller Evich for Politico, July 30, 2017)
These days in Washington, Clovis’ critics are obsessing over what he is not: He's not an agricultural scientist, nor is he an agricultural economist, nor does he appear to be qualified for a position that, by law, must be drawn from “among distinguished scientists with specialized training or significant experience in agricultural research, education and economics.”

Senate Democrats, activists deeply concerned about climate change and left-leaning science groups predictably seized on Clovis’ weak credentials to attack his selection as yet another sign the Trump administration rejects science-based policymaking and endangers the integrity of federal research.

But none of that has deterred the heavyweights in the agriculture industry, who believe, in effect, that Clovis’ political savvy is more important than his résumé.
...
What Clovis lacks in science chops, he makes up for in knowing — really understanding — Trump. Back in April, when Trump was on the verge of withdrawing the U.S. from NAFTA, it was widely reported that Agriculture Secretary Sonny Perdue helped walk the president away from the ledge by showing up at an Oval Office meeting with a map of the U.S. that pointed out areas that would be most harmed by an abrupt withdrawal — many of them counties and states that voted for Trump, and many of them rural.

It was actually Clovis who prepped Perdue for the meeting and Clovis who suggested the secretary take along the map to drive home his point in a visual, high-impact way, multiple sources with knowledge of the exchange said. Clovis did not respond to multiple inquiries from POLITICO.

“It shows that I do have a very big farmer base, which is good,” Trump later recalled about the meeting and the map, after deciding to drop a planned executive order that would have pulled the U.S. from the free trade deal with Mexico and Canada, which has been a boon for agriculture. “They like Trump, but I like them, and I'm going to help them.”
By law, you say? Pish posh, that's just another bit of unnecessary bureaucracy getting in the way of doing business.

And it appears we should really focus our push-back on Trump actions by preparing maps of how his plans would impact those poor, rural voters who support him, especially when they don't have the dough to play a few rounds of golf at his resorts.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:59 AM on September 6, 2017 [17 favorites]


Chrysostom: "Yes, this is an excellent Dem pickup opportunity. Also, anecdotally, one high-profile retirement often seems to trigger others to follow suit."

Oh, so further on this - the House currently has eight GOP Reps in Obama-Obama-Clinton districts. There have been two retirement announcements from them so far (Reichert, Ros-Lehtinen). Six to go!

(Denham, Valada, Coffman, Curbelo, Paulsen, Katko)
posted by Chrysostom at 12:01 PM on September 6, 2017 [10 favorites]


showing up at an Oval Office meeting with a map of the U.S.

Apparently it's just that easy. Whenever Trump gets a bad idea, all we need is for someone to point at a map and say "Ooh, they'll really hate that in Ohio, which you won," and he'll stop.
posted by Faint of Butt at 12:05 PM on September 6, 2017 [7 favorites]


Axios's Jonathan Swan on Twitter: Just spoke to a top Republican close to leadership about Trump's decision. Here's what they said:
"Victory. They win the politics of DACA and leverage on debt in the winter.
The fate is sealed - DACA will be reauthorized without strings, Schumer will insert himself into all negotiations in the winter, including tax, spending and immigration."
posted by scalefree at 12:07 PM on September 6, 2017 [27 favorites]


This picture of Schumer and Trump, by Alex Wong at Getty, shot spy style through the Oval Office window and a plant, it looks like, is everything.
posted by zachlipton at 12:12 PM on September 6, 2017 [38 favorites]


And so I'd really like to solve "where is a good place for more conservative anti-Trump organizers" because I would like to put those people, those connections and networks, to better use than "man, I'm not giving a dime to the State party, how about you? Nah, me either."

There are two major parties, and one of them is opposed to Trumpism.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:12 PM on September 6, 2017 [36 favorites]


I'd bet any amount of money Lieberman in 2009 was substantially more liberal than several sitting Democratic Senators in 2017.

Good grief! Before someone else claims your life savings, I'll just point out that Lieberman campaigned for John McCain and Sarah effing Palin in 2008. There are no sitting Democratic Senators who campaigned for Donald Trump.

I realize you have an ax to grind about Democrats not being as progressive as you might like but you may want to dial back a bit on the hyperbolic statements before completely destroying your credibility.
posted by JackFlash at 12:13 PM on September 6, 2017 [60 favorites]


This picture of Schumer and Trump, via Jeremy Diamond, shot spy style through the Oval Office window and a plant, it looks like, is everything.

Trump is a New Yorker and sees himself as a 'deal-maker' not an ideologue. He probably feels he has a lot more in common with Chuck Schumer than with Mitch McConnell (who clearly can't stand him and doesn't hide it).
posted by leotrotsky at 12:15 PM on September 6, 2017 [6 favorites]


3. The DACA kids are way, way braver than me and have dealt with some shit. It really made me think, too, since I never even consider anyone's status (why would I? It matters zero percents to my life) about how lots of people are dealing with bullshit while doing all the regular life stuff, working, going to school, etc, and how exhausting it must be. -- Frowner

I went to the DACA rally* here in Portland last night and the DACA recipients were inspiring. One speaker said it's important to remember all 800K of them even those who aren't doctors and lawyers and other professionals because ALL of them are important. I'm proud of every single last one of them.

*our rally had drummers and dancers instead of a brass band.
posted by vespabelle at 12:17 PM on September 6, 2017 [19 favorites]


This picture of Schumer and Trump, via Jeremy Diamond, shot spy style through the Oval Office window and a plant, it looks like, is everything.

The replies, good lord. I always thought I'd get some distant satisfaction out of seeing a very powerful man subjected to the same "Trump is putting his hands all over him and he's not screaming, so he must be enjoying it" inferences women get, but I don't. he is doing the kind of finger-in-the-face emphatic pointing that I bet Trump does himself all the time but hates having done to him. and Trump is trying to squeeze him to death with hands tragically too small for the purposes of intimidation for which they are deployed.

the only iconic thing about it is that awful fake smile Trump does. so wide it shuts his eyes and looks like it hurts him. probably does.
posted by queenofbithynia at 12:18 PM on September 6, 2017 [4 favorites]


There really is a tweet for everything.

@realDonaldTrump (Jan 22 2013): The worst negotiators in history (otherwise known as Republicans) have just offered to suspend debt ceiling for four months. Pathetic!
posted by zachlipton at 12:21 PM on September 6, 2017 [69 favorites]


corb: "And so I'd really like to solve "where is a good place for more conservative anti-Trump organizers" because I would like to put those people, those connections and networks, to better use than "man, I'm not giving a dime to the State party, how about you? Nah, me either.""

Conservative American thought is completely co-opted by cryptoracism. There are no major Republican or American conservative positions that have been arrived at without a heaping dose of "welfare queens" and "handouts". The best thing American conservatives can do is just stay home and unlearn for a while before they rejoin the public sphere as decent people.
posted by TypographicalError at 12:25 PM on September 6, 2017 [38 favorites]


Natasha Bertrand in Business Insider: Top Trump lawyer in private email exchange: 'Me and Kelly' are the 'adults in the room'
"I'm probably going to lose access to affordable healthcare, ty [thank you]," Jetton wrote, adding that Trump is "screwing everyday Americans" and that "I don't have to tell you that, it's right there slapping you across the face."

Cobb replied: "Dude U have no idea! I walked away from $4 million annually to do this, had to sell my entire retirement account for major capital losses and lost a s---load to try to protect the third pillar of democracy. Your hate I will never understand as an American. Hope you get help!"

Jetton later told Business Insider that "citing the millions of dollars that you gave up to work for Trump is as out of touch and tone deaf as hashtagging name brands in your Instagram and class-shaming your critics." (Jetton was referring to comments made by Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin's wife on Instagram last month.)

Asked later by Jetton to "set the record straight" and explain how Cobb is "justifying" his role at the White House to himself and others, Cobb replied he "can say assertively [that] more adults in the room will be better. Me and Kelly among others."
Soo....turns out Ty Cobb--lol--replies to random-ass emails from his WH account. Reminds of me of Marc Kassowtiz who kept running his mouth in ways unhelpful to the client. Cobb's a damned fool if he's trying to stay on as T's lawyer or a genius if he's trying to get fired. It still astounds me that people all around T talk about him like a child that has to be managed.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 12:27 PM on September 6, 2017 [32 favorites]


I realize you have an ax to grind about Democrats not being as progressive as you might like but you may want to dial back a bit on the hyperbolic statements

I accept cash, check and bitcoin.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:32 PM on September 6, 2017 [4 favorites]


does time spent arguing with randos on the internet count as billable hours or something
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:34 PM on September 6, 2017 [19 favorites]


I mean, I don't actually read the interaction between Trump and Schumer as necessarily being hostile? Like, I don't have a lot of direct personal experience with national-level politicans, but I do have a lot of experience with real estate developers, and everything about that scene -- the grips, the finger in the face, the little we can see of Trump's expression and Schumer's expression?

I have no way of knowing, but man, I bet you that Schumer played a schmoozy, Brooklyn-boy-made-good, "We're dealmakers from the greatest city on earth! Let's show these hicks how New Yorkers cut a deal!" shtick to the hilt. And Trump just ate it up with a spoon, not only because it played to his ego, not only because it played to his distaste for Republican leadership, but it felt so fucking familiar and comfortable to him.

tl;dr: THANKS YOU OLD SCHMOOZY DOG THANKS FOR TAKING ONE FOR THE TEAM AND FUCKING SELLING DONALD TRUMP THE BROOKLYN BRIDGE
posted by joyceanmachine at 12:35 PM on September 6, 2017 [98 favorites]


Soo....turns out Ty Cobb--lol--replies to random-ass emails from his WH account.

Do not go to Lemon-Lyman dot com!
posted by scalefree at 12:40 PM on September 6, 2017 [5 favorites]


does time spent arguing with randos on the internet count as billable hours or something

If it's not I've wasted my life.
posted by Talez at 12:41 PM on September 6, 2017 [28 favorites]


>>Axios's Jonathan Swan on Twitter: Just spoke to a top Republican close to leadership about Trump's decision. Here's what they said:

Umm. So this is one of those things Twitter does that is terrible, but, what he tweeted was a screenshot of a phone screen; if you don't actually click on the picture itself, the top and bottom of the image are cropped off by default on Twitter. As it turns out, in this case that crops out the beginning of the quote. Here's the full quote, which makes a lot more sense than a top Republican starting out with "Victory." to describe things:

"Dems bluffed their way into total victory. They win the politics of DACA and leverage on debt in the winter. The fate is sealed - DACA will be reauthorized without strings, Schumer will insert himself into all negotiations in the winter, including tax, spending and immigration."
posted by mstokes650 at 12:42 PM on September 6, 2017 [32 favorites]


Trump: “We agreed to a three-month extension on debt ceiling, which they consider to be sacred — very important — always we’ll agree on debt ceiling automatically because of the importance of it.”

You're not supposed to say that in your outdoor voice, Donald...
posted by BungaDunga at 12:45 PM on September 6, 2017 [5 favorites]


zachlipton: There really is a tweet for everything.

Oh, I agree. Has anyone tried to catalog all of Trump's tweets by topic? With such a catalog, you could quickly sub-tweet his every new proclamation with a retweet of his own (I think I'm using the terminology right here, but I don't really know TBH).

Maybe even set up a bot as GhostOfDJTPast or something and automate the replies (with date stamps and links to his original tweets, natch).
posted by filthy light thief at 12:47 PM on September 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


THE PRESIDENT: Thats going to be discussed later, but we want to talk about legal right now. We havent discussed that.

ME:
posted by Room 641-A at 12:48 PM on September 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


Umm. So this is one of those things Twitter does that is terrible, but, what he tweeted was a screenshot of a phone screen; if you don't actually click on the picture itself, the top and bottom of the image are cropped off by default on Twitter.

The wording I saw did seem a bit awkward. Thanks for the correction.
posted by scalefree at 12:48 PM on September 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


Trump! Master Negotiator!
Schumer, probably surprised it was so easy. Probably a little embarrassed.
posted by From Bklyn at 12:50 PM on September 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


Has anyone tried to catalog all of Trump's tweets by topic?

Trump Twitter Archive
posted by Room 641-A at 12:51 PM on September 6, 2017 [4 favorites]


@realDonaldTrump: Will be going to North Dakota today to discuss tax reform and tax cuts. We are the highest taxed nation in the world - that will change.

No. No, we aren't. Please stop saying that.

Aruba is the highest taxed nation in the world, at a hair under 59%. The USA isn't even in the top 10.
posted by hanov3r at 1:02 PM on September 6, 2017 [54 favorites]


However, McCain notably refused to say whether he would back the bill under reconciliation.

That's the key thing, I think. We know McCain didn't vote NO on the last Obamacare repeal because of the substance, he voted NO based on the complete abandonment of regular order. I don't particularly care what he wants to become law if it has no chance of passing under regular order... so we'll see. If he caved on the process it would be the most shocking, unprecedented, and massive surrender that I can think of. Like if the 101st airborne at Bastogne had followed up the NUTS message an hour later with WE SURRENDER PLEASE BRING CAKE.

I know some of y'all will be like "of course he's going to abjectedly surrender lol mccain" but we'll see. I've also heard a lot of discussion of this without seeing any indication the leadership is looking to get back into this fight already.
posted by Justinian at 1:03 PM on September 6, 2017 [6 favorites]


Dear Republicans: just stop. Stop.

Candidate for Charlotte Mayor Puts "White" As One of Her Qualifications
posted by TwoStride at 1:04 PM on September 6, 2017 [10 favorites]


T.D. Strange: That's exactly what Ryan and McConnell wanted to avoid. Trump is just hilariously bad at this.

Or he's finally pivoting, and flips to be a Democrat again? Hahahahahahaha .... I know, right?
posted by filthy light thief at 1:05 PM on September 6, 2017


Democrats are finally figuring out that Trump is really as stupid as he looks and you can play zany tricks on him like he's Elmer Fudd.
posted by theodolite at 1:12 PM on September 6, 2017 [72 favorites]


WaPo, Carol D. Leonnig, Tom Hamburger and Rosalind S. Helderman, Facebook says it sold political ads to Russian company during 2016 election
Representatives of Facebook told congressional investigators Wednesday that it has discovered it sold ads during the U.S. presidential election to a shadowy Russian company seeking to target voters, according to several people familiar with the company’s findings.

Facebook officials reported that they traced the ad sales, totaling $100,000, to a Russian “troll farm” with a history of pushing pro-Kremlin propaganda, these people said.

A small portion of the ads, which began in the summer of 2015, directly named Republican nominee Donald Trump and Democrat Hillary Clinton, the people said. Most of the ads focused on pumping politically divisive issues such as gun rights and immigration fears, as well as gay rights and racial discrimination.
We absolutely need, immediately, total transparency on online political ads and spending, so this stuff can be out in the open.

Also, a few quick personnel announcements. Axios reports that Bannon's political advisor Andy Surabian is out; he'll become an advisor to Great America Alliance (linked with the Great America PAC). This sets up Trump's PAC to funnel money to achieve Bannon's aims, including attacking GOP reps he doesn't like. And Politico reports that Mercedes Schlapp is expected to join the White House communications staff. She's a Fox pundit and runs a PR firm and did Spanish-language media for the Bush Administration. Trump likes how she and her husband (American Conservative Union chairman Matthew Schlapp) defend him on TV.

Trump's North Dakota speech should be available on this stream. We've got a military band again, because why the heck not?

I know some of y'all will be like "of course he's going to abjectedly surrender lol mccain" but we'll see.

I mean, he said "If it's not through regular order than it's a mistake, but it doesn't mean I wouldn't vote for it," so yeah, there's a distinct possibility he might do what he says if given the opportunity.
posted by zachlipton at 1:12 PM on September 6, 2017 [22 favorites]


Here Are 4 Options Congress Could Take On DACA (Jessica Taylor for NPR, Sept. 6, 2017)

- Dream Act, sponsored by Sens. Dick Durbin, D-Ill., and Lindsey Graham, R-S.C.
Qualifications for permanent status in the Dream Act include having lived in the U.S. for a certain length of time and meeting certain educational, work or military service requirements. It would take at least 13 years for those eligible to achieve citizenship.

However, the White House has already signaled it won't support this bill: When Graham and Durbin proposed it in July, Trump's legislative affairs director, Marc Short, said, "I think that the administration has opposed the Dream Act and likely will be consistent on that."
Way to hedge your bets, Marc Short. "I think Trump is likely to be consistent" is ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ in words.

- Recognizing America's Children Act, sponsored by Rep. Carlos Curbelo, R-Fla.
"The bill provides immigrants that have been vetted by the Department of Homeland Security with three pathways toward legalization: higher education, service in the armed forces or work authorization. Following a 5-year conditional status, these immigrants would be able to reapply for a 5-year permanent status," Curbelo said in a press release announcing the bill earlier this year. At the end of their permanent status — after a total of 10 years, according to the NILC — DREAMers could apply for citizenship.
- The American Hope Act, sponsored by Rep. Luis Gutierrez, D-Ill.
Gutierrez introduced this bill in July, flanked by the Congressional Hispanic Caucus; 112 Democrats already had signed on to cosponsor his legislation.

To be eligible, people must have entered the U.S. before age 18. The bill does not include any work, education or military requirements but does reject people who have been convicted of certain crimes, according to the NILC.

It also provides the fastest path to citizenship. Those eligible can apply for conditional permanent residency, valid for up to eight years, and after three years can apply for lawful permanent residence status. After a total of five years, they can apply for U.S. citizenship.
- BRIDGE Act, sponsored by Rep. Mike Coffman, R-Colo.
As soon as news broke over the weekend that Trump was going to end DACA, Coffman announced he planned to file a discharge petition to get his bill to the House floor. The rarely used method requires a simple majority of signatories to circumvent party leaders and bring a bill up for a vote by the full House.

The BRIDGE Act — which stands for Bar Removal of Individuals Who Dream and Grow our Economy — was proposed back in January and essentially would codify the current DACA program into law and extend it for three years, allowing Congress more time to come up with a comprehensive, long-term solution for overhauling the nation's immigration laws.

Unlike the other bills in Congress, it does not include a path to citizenship.
Bold vision, Coffman. Let's bar their expulsion, but keep them here as second-class citizens.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:14 PM on September 6, 2017 [21 favorites]


Oh, Boo-Hoo: Pollster Believes Evangelicals Back Trump Out of "Grief"
The usually astute Greg Sargent misses the mark, I think when he recommends this USA Today op-ed by Robert P. Jones, CEO of the Public Religion Research Institute, on the reasons evangelicals back Donald Trump: [...]

Jones evokes Elizabeth Kübler-Ross's five stages of grief -- denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance. [...]

But why is it inevitable that white evangelicals would cling to Trump if he doesn't share many of the values they profess? Why can't they say, as they said during the presidency of Barack Obama (who I think shares more of their values, but never mind), that the president simply isn't on their side? Why can't they look to the future, hopeful of a restoration when Trump is gone? [...]

And why is it inevitable that a group in decline must embrace a grotesque, pathological, extremist leader? Think about Southern Democrats. Their influence is in decline. In the years following the Civil Rights era, they sent two leaders to the White House, Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton, and nearly sent a third, Al Gore. They elected senators and governors. And then their power all but vanished.

They haven't embraced an angry, thuggish fraudster and demagogue. They've just soldiered on, patiently waiting for a time when they can regain some political influence. They've had a few small victories, such as electing the current governor of North Carolina (although not a legislature that will work with him). But they're not acting out of "desperation."

Conservative white evangelicals believe they should rule America. Trump promises that they can do that with him in the White House. They're not grieving -- they're in denial. They can't accept that they have to share America with the rest of us.
posted by tonycpsu at 1:16 PM on September 6, 2017 [20 favorites]


I bet you that Schumer played a schmoozy, Brooklyn-boy-made-good, "We're dealmakers from the greatest city on earth! Let's show these hicks how New Yorkers cut a deal!" shtick to the hilt. And Trump just ate it up with a spoon

I suspect that he's looking for new friends. His supporter base (the immediate ones, not the ones who cheer during rallies) is smaller, and he wants to Talk Important Business with people who will tell him he's awesome.

And we've seen from his phone transcripts - he's actually a pushover in deals. He'll agree to anything that sounds reasonable. And "Save the children AND fix the debt problem!" sounds great. He wants to be on record as the guy who saved children! And the guy who fixed debts! (Debts, debt ceiling, whatever. Debt problem, and he's fixing it!)

He's very susceptible to pictures and charts - Dems just need to put someone on his wavelength in reach of him to feed him info to counter the Breitbart propaganda. "Hey, mr president, people in [state] hate you - but if you make sure their kids have medical coverage, they'll love you!" "Hey mr president, you're losing the farmer vote. Howsabout a quick executive action to increase infrastructure focus on roads and schools in rural areas?" ... and so on.

And if people complain that it's really really not normal for a president to be making deals with the Minority Leaders in House and Senate... well, he's a maverick! He don' follow no steenkin' rules!
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 1:18 PM on September 6, 2017 [24 favorites]


Or he's finally pivoting, and flips to be a Democrat again?

If the Dems dominate Congress after 2018, he probably will try to, and it might be smart for the Dems to play along instead of handing power to Pence.
posted by Coventry at 1:20 PM on September 6, 2017 [2 favorites]


They're not grieving -- they're in denial. They can't accept that they have to share America with the rest of us.

I've long thought that the evangelical definition of "we're being oppressed" is "we're required to recognize that other religions exist."
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 1:22 PM on September 6, 2017 [28 favorites]


Corb, it strikes me that WA Republicans who are SoMuchNopeTrump might be able to carve space out in the policy arena as a counterweight to the network of institutions and funders and electeds who are fueling some of the most extremist stances. See the Plot Against DACA for an analysis of one policy issue. What's a national issue with state ramifications (or vice versa?) that Trump and regime have been wreaking havoc on?
posted by spamandkimchi at 1:23 PM on September 6, 2017


@EricaWerner: Trump tells reporters on AF1 “We had a very good meeting with Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer" -- doesn't even mention Ryan, McConnell

@jimpjorps: Chuck Schumer just decided to test out whether "Trump will always agree with the last person to talk to him" worked, and it did
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:23 PM on September 6, 2017 [87 favorites]


I've long thought that the evangelical definition of "we're being oppressed" is "we're required to recognize that other religions exist."

"...and we have to let people of other races look us in the eye."
posted by Etrigan at 1:26 PM on September 6, 2017 [21 favorites]


All we need to get voting representation for DC is to have someone at a press conference ask, "Mr President, do you believe that your representative in DC should vote to build the wall?"

"What about two senators from DC, should they vote for the wall? And the representative from Puerto Rico?"
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:27 PM on September 6, 2017 [37 favorites]


Harvey Recovery Will Take Time, HUD Secretary Ben Carson Says (NPR, Sept. 6, 2017) -- Rachel Martin talks to Ben Carson, secretary of Housing and Urban Development, about recovery efforts and his department's role in assisting Texas and Louisiana property owners affected by flooding. It starts off well, but then Rachel digs in, and Ben sounds like a smarter Donny.
MARTIN: You say your agency is interested in cutting the red tape that's blocked previous response efforts. I mean, what have been the specific lessons from previous storms - Katrina, Rita, Sandy? Besides - when you say cutting red tape, what specifically is your agency trying to do now that's different?

CARSON: Specifically, we sent many agents out into the field with the specific charge of determining how things can be done as opposed to why that can't be done. If you're familiar with bureaucracies, you know that as soon as you come up with a good idea and you're ready to do something, someone says, oh, you can't do that because of this. And, you know, I hate that.

MARTIN: And so you believe that by putting your agents in the field to just come up with solutions - and then you can just green light them? I mean, there are some real obstacles. There are real reasons that...

CARSON: Obviously, you look at those things. But anybody who's familiar with government bureaucracy knows exactly what I'm talking about.
...
MARTIN: You say you want to cut the red tape, get people back into HUD-supported housing as soon as possible. Are you going to have the funds to do that? The president's proposed budget would cut HUD's spending by $6 billion. Are you concerned that that cut will mean that you can't provide all those people with housing?

CARSON: I think there's a lot of focus on, you know, what's being cut. And, you know, I think, perhaps, we should turn the focus to what is actually happening. Are people actually being helped? Is anybody being thrown out onto the streets? In fact, I think you'll find the answer to those things - no.
...
CARSON: [Responding to questions about Trump's budget with its $6 BILLION in cuts to HUD, a 13.2 percent reduction] Well, again, I would say let's focus on what he's done. I always say to people, the proof is in the pudding. And if down the road, you see that nothing is being accomplished or that we're moving backward, I think there can be a legitimate complaint.

But if in fact things are moving forward - we're getting more done; we're getting more people housed; we're getting a much better handle on the homelessness problem - then I think people ought to be willing to say, yes, that's what's happening.
Yeah, let's just wait to see how HUD is able to operate with fewer staff and $6 billion less in funding, and with significant cuts to maintenance funding.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:28 PM on September 6, 2017 [11 favorites]


He's very susceptible to pictures and charts - Dems just need to put someone on his wavelength in reach of him to feed him info to counter the Breitbart propaganda. "Hey, mr president, people in [state] hate you - but if you make sure their kids have medical coverage, they'll love you!" "Hey mr president, you're losing the farmer vote. Howsabout a quick executive action to increase infrastructure focus on roads and schools in rural areas?" ... and so on.

I just had a realization that Trump can't deal with people as actual people, only archetypes.

I can see the Durbs and maybe Tim Kaine have the personality and patience to pull off being the Senate Dem kindergarten teachers. King and Tester are the disappointed dads, and Sheldon Whitehouse can be the fun uncle.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 1:29 PM on September 6, 2017 [10 favorites]


Oh, and how familiar are you with bureaucracy again, Dr. Carson? Does being Director of pediatric neurosurgery at the Johns Hopkins Children’s Center for almost 3 decades mean you have experience with bureaucracy? Sure. But how does that relate to Federal bureaucracy regarding Housing and Urban Development, disaster relief efforts, and so forth? Hmmm...
posted by filthy light thief at 1:32 PM on September 6, 2017 [3 favorites]


I've long thought that the evangelical definition of "we're being oppressed" is "we're required to recognize that other religions exist."

and the tenets of our denomination haven't been made law
posted by thelonius at 1:32 PM on September 6, 2017 [13 favorites]


Trump has interrupted his tax speech so Ivanka can be invited up on stage. He says people say about him, "he can't be that bad a guy: look at Ivanka." He also says that Ivanka asked him "Daddy, can I go with you? I like that. I said yes you can." (The "I like that" sounded like it was about being called "daddy.") It was really really weird.
posted by zachlipton at 1:34 PM on September 6, 2017 [51 favorites]


I've long thought that the evangelical definition of "we're being oppressed" is "we're required to recognize that other religions exist."

I've sort of mentioned in a different thread that the LCMS has a major problem with this, to the point they publicly excoriated a pastor for attending an interfaith service after Sandy Hook where one of his parishoners died. The pastor then had to apologize to the Synod.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 1:37 PM on September 6, 2017 [12 favorites]


A small thing from Massachusetts today: V. A. Shiva Ayyadurai, who wants to run against Elizabeth Warren as "the real Indian" next year, had his libel suit against Techdirt thrown out today. The judge in the case said, among other things, that he failed to prove he really was the father of all e-mail, that Techdirt was protected by the 1st Amendment and Sullivan v. NY Times and that Gawker's decision to settle with him in a similar case after it lost the Hulk Hogan case is not the same as proof he is right.
posted by adamg at 1:37 PM on September 6, 2017 [14 favorites]


Just tuned in to the Stupid Show. Trump's ad-libbing a lot—this should be fun horrible.
posted by Rykey at 1:42 PM on September 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


The Ivanka Trump Guarantee (Lindy West, NYT Op-Ed)
The fact is, the only evidence we have of Ms. Trump’s supposed moderating effects and passion for progressive causes is her word. And, unfortunately for the entire planet, the word of a Trump isn’t worth very much
posted by Room 641-A at 1:51 PM on September 6, 2017 [33 favorites]


Trump just now: four basic principles for tax reform:

1. Simplification of the tax code. Somehow we won't have to report any, you know, numbers when we file taxes any more.
2. Tax cuts for middle class families. Biggest since Reagan (applause, applause)
3. Competitive business tax rate. Ideally down to 15%. "You will see a rocket ship" (?!). Business owners would rather spend what they pay in taxes on their employees, dontcha know!
4. End of the "death tax," which is a "tremendous burden" for family farmers and other millionaires.
posted by Rykey at 1:51 PM on September 6, 2017 [9 favorites]


I've long thought that the evangelical definition of 'we're being oppressed' is 'we're required to recognize that other religions exist.'

Which is deeply ironic considering that these "founded as a Christian nation" motherfuckers were actually oppressed in the Colonial era. The colonies had official established religions, primarily Congregationalist in the northern colonies and the Church of England in the southern colonies. You paid taxes to the official state church regardless of your own religion (or lack of one). Evangelicals could be and were fined and jailed for their beliefs.

Given than it's very significant that when the United States was founded (both times!) there was a conspicuous lack of an established religion. (And the Bill of Rights has an explicit prohibition against one.) If the Founders wanted to found a Christian nation, they would've done it.

You know who did invoke "the favor and guidance of Almighty God" when they founded their nation? The Confederates.
posted by kirkaracha at 1:52 PM on September 6, 2017 [31 favorites]


Daddy, can I go with you? I like that. I said yes you can.

Ew.
posted by kirkaracha at 1:53 PM on September 6, 2017 [37 favorites]




"Beautiful new ones?" He said it like a question. Did someone Ron Burgundy the teleprompter?
posted by fluttering hellfire at 1:56 PM on September 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


I have no idea if Ivanka "likes to call him Daddy," but I'm positive she knows she can get a lot more out of him if she does.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 1:57 PM on September 6, 2017 [18 favorites]


LOL, not only was the House under Reagan Democratic, but so was the Speaker of the House! —Trump
posted by Rykey at 1:58 PM on September 6, 2017 [2 favorites]


Not done with healthcare, huh? "One vote away. Can you believe it? One. Vote. We can't let that happen again." I'm hollering at my computer screen.
posted by meowf at 1:58 PM on September 6, 2017


Here's video of the Ivanka segment. So incredibly cringeworthy.
posted by zachlipton at 1:58 PM on September 6, 2017 [2 favorites]


Aw, I remember when my daddy used to call me over and greet me with a nice, firm handshake.
posted by Room 641-A at 2:03 PM on September 6, 2017 [5 favorites]


Catherine Rampell in the Washington Post: Ivanka Trump has learned well from her father’s cons''
“Ultimately, while I believe the intention was good and agree that pay transparency is important, the proposed policy would not yield the intended results,” her statement said. “We look forward to continuing to work with EEOC, [the Office of Management and Budget], Congress and all relevant stakeholders on robust policies aimed at eliminating the gender wage gap.”

She offered no “robust” substitute policies. But she did offer moms a discount for massage services.

That’s right: On the same day the Trump administration quashed the EEOC rule, Trump International Hotel in Washington tweeted out a special coupon for any parents buying services at The Spa by IVANKA TRUMP™.

At best these about-faces on “women’s issues” are hollow marketing, at worst a con. The game is to say whatever needs to be said to part a mark from her money, and then move on.

It’s a trick Ivanka Trump learned well from her father.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 2:11 PM on September 6, 2017 [23 favorites]


I don't understand what's cringeworthy about the Ivanka/Donald interaction. Could someone break it down for me?
posted by Coventry at 2:21 PM on September 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


Trump: Competitive business tax rate. Ideally down to 15%. "You will see a rocket ship" (?!). Business owners would rather spend what they pay in taxes on their employees, dontcha know!

Trump is an idiot. Apparently he doesn't know the simple fact that employee wages are entirely tax free. Money spent on wages reduces your taxes.

He has the causation completely backwards. Higher tax rates increase investment. Lower tax rates reduce investment.

Here's an example: Let's say the tax rate is 50%, much higher than now. The business has a choice. They can take their profits out of the business as dividends and give half to the government for taxes. Or they can spend their profits on new equipment, new R&D or new employees and keep 100% of it tax free.

The choice is clear. Investments reduce taxes paid. The higher the tax rate, the greater the incentive to reinvest in business expansion to reduce your taxes. Lower tax rates encourage stripping money out of the business as dividends.
posted by JackFlash at 2:21 PM on September 6, 2017 [49 favorites]


I don't understand what's cringeworthy about the Ivanka/Donald interaction. Could someone break it down for me?

Primarily, the way Trump pulls her back by the hand for a forced kiss; but also for the vapidity of the statements (both by Trump and Ivanka).
posted by joseph conrad is fully awesome at 2:25 PM on September 6, 2017 [8 favorites]


Also, she is a grown women who works in the white House and she's being treated like a five year old.
posted by Room 641-A at 2:26 PM on September 6, 2017 [63 favorites]


And the brazen nepotism.
posted by darkstar at 2:31 PM on September 6, 2017 [27 favorites]


And the whole 'I love it when she calls me daddy and asks to come on a business trip' bit.
posted by zachlipton at 2:32 PM on September 6, 2017 [34 favorites]


And the act of using her to humanize himself.
posted by erisfree at 2:34 PM on September 6, 2017 [27 favorites]


Facebook: Russian-linked accounts bought $150,000 in ads during 2016 race (Darren Samuelsohn, Politico)
Facebook found some $100,000 in ad spending from June 2015 through May 2017 connected to about 470 accounts that were deemed as inauthentic and in violation of its internal guidelines. These accounts – associated with about 3,000 ads – were connected to each other “and likely operated out of Russia,” Alex Stamos, Facebook’s chief security officer, wrote in a Wednesday blog post.
Lock Zuck up.
posted by Room 641-A at 2:36 PM on September 6, 2017 [49 favorites]


Oops.
posted by Melismata at 2:40 PM on September 6, 2017


Well, at least this puts at least one nail in the coffin of his prospective presidential run.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 2:46 PM on September 6, 2017 [16 favorites]


I don't understand what's cringeworthy about the Ivanka/Donald interaction. Could someone break it down for me?

There are a lot of speculations about the way that Donald Trump seems to sexualize his daughter and focus and prioritize her. The way that DT calls her "Daddy" seems to at least blur the line between how normal adults speak to their adult children and how people who roleplay the sexualization of that power dynamic tend to say it, in a creepy way.
posted by corb at 2:47 PM on September 6, 2017 [12 favorites]


4. End of the "death tax," which is a "tremendous burden" for family farmers and other millionaires.

@lilybatch: When neither the Am Farm Bureau nor NYT has been able to identify a single case of a family farm actually being sold to pay the estate tax.
posted by zombieflanders at 2:52 PM on September 6, 2017 [65 favorites]


on the daddy thing: this sums it up pretty well

if you don't want to click through to twitter:
Ariel Dumas (@ArielDumas)

Poll: When is it appropriate to call an adult man "Daddy?"
()during a sex thing
() -
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 2:56 PM on September 6, 2017 [10 favorites]


You almost have to admire the Republicans ability to get middle class and poor people to care about ending estate taxes. It's an impressive display of the power of propaganda and misinformation.
posted by diogenes at 3:00 PM on September 6, 2017 [28 favorites]


The Senate is not having it with Tillerson's crap. The appropriations bill moving forward doesn't give him the budget cuts he wants, blocks efforts to merge USAID into State, and requires notification and review of any proposed department reorganization plans.

One important thing about the Ty Cobb emails, as flagged by Susan Hennessey: Cobb threatens the guy with a Secret Service investigation. I've seen no indication that there was any kind of a threat or unlawful conduct. That's phenomenally not acceptable behavior for a government official.
posted by zachlipton at 3:06 PM on September 6, 2017 [40 favorites]


A small thing from Massachusetts today: V . A. Shiva Ayyadurai, who wants to run against Elizabeth Warren as "the real Indian" next year, had his libel suit against Techdirt thrown out today.

Oh good. That guy is a scumbag. And he was present for the infamous Gazebo of Nazis gathering on the Boston Common a few weeks ago, supposedly proving the rest of the Nazis up there "weren't racist." His "Real Indian" thing is so offensive it squeaks when you even fucking write it down.
posted by spitbull at 3:06 PM on September 6, 2017 [15 favorites]


You almost have to admire the Republicans ability to get middle class and poor people to care about ending estate taxes. It's an impressive display of the power of propaganda and misinformation.

They get propaganda help from Pelosi every few years, what with her moving the goal lines.
posted by rc3spencer at 3:07 PM on September 6, 2017


One important thing about the Ty Cobb emails

Whoa, the mayor from Powerpuff Girls is a real dick
posted by theodolite at 3:13 PM on September 6, 2017 [7 favorites]


You were right Justinian. McCain is making it pretty clear, at least right now, that he wants regular order more than he wants Graham-Cassidy.
posted by zachlipton at 3:15 PM on September 6, 2017 [3 favorites]


"How are you sleeping at night? You’re a monster," Jetton wrote to Cobb's White House email account on Tuesday night.

"Like a baby ... " wrote Cobb, who was brought in to the White House to oversee Trump's legal and media response to the ongoing Russia investigation.

The conversation escalated quickly, with Jetton attacking "the havoc" Cobb and his "ilk are causing."

"I, like many others, lay awake, restless, my mind dissecting countless scenarios of how bad this could get, what new thing you have dreamt up to pull us down a pathway to hell," Jetton wrote. "You remind me less of a grumpy baseball player and more of that horrid clown from the Stephen King novel."

Cobb replied: "Enjoy talking to the Secret Service. Hope you are you less than nine years old as you seem to be ... "

He later called Jetton "deranged impotent and unimportant," but continued to respond.

"I'm probably going to lose access to affordable healthcare, Ty," Jetton wrote, adding that Trump is "screwing everyday Americans" and that "I don't have to tell you that, it's right there slapping you across the face."

Cobb replied: "Dude U have no idea! I walked away from $4 million annually to do this, had to sell my entire retirement account for major capital losses and lost a s---load to try to protect the third pillar of democracy. Your hate I will never understand as an American. Hope you get help!"


This is purportedly a high-priced, high-powered, well regarded DC lawyer, yet he responds to random emails like a crazy crank. Dude U have no idea!? Lol whut?

Also, Natasha Bertrand is kind of killing it these days.
posted by spitbull at 3:20 PM on September 6, 2017 [16 favorites]


Doesn't sleeping like a baby suggest he wakes up at three in the morning and screams until dawn?
posted by dng at 3:22 PM on September 6, 2017 [46 favorites]


Or as Ben Mathis-Lilley puts it in Slate:
Ty Cobb is a White House attorney. He was hired in July and has been of interest to the public thus far mostly because he has a distinctive mustache and is named Ty Cobb, like the baseball player, to whom he is apparently distantly related. Now, however, he's also notable for writing a comically disjointed but heartfelt late-night email about Russia to the owner of a noodle restaurant who had been harassing him via unsolicited messages about fellatio.
posted by spitbull at 3:23 PM on September 6, 2017 [15 favorites]


Best-dressed list honors Obamas, snubs Trumps

I don't care about best-dressed lists but I am excited to see what Trump and Pete Souza do in response.

Whoa, the mayor from Powerpuff Girls is a real dick


That was totally worth googling.
posted by Room 641-A at 3:25 PM on September 6, 2017 [2 favorites]


Thanks for the explanations about the "Daddy" interaction, everyone.
posted by Coventry at 3:31 PM on September 6, 2017


Poll: When is it appropriate to call an adult man "Daddy?"
()during a sex thing
() -


Guys my wife is a 44 year old woman and calls her father Daddy. It's not all that unusual. Everything sounds creepy when Trump says it, because he's a creep.
posted by Fleebnork at 3:33 PM on September 6, 2017 [31 favorites]


Calling your father "Daddy" = OK

Talking about how you like it when your adult daughter calls you "Daddy" = problematic
posted by prize bull octorok at 3:35 PM on September 6, 2017 [76 favorites]


Talking about intimate family names live, on television, during a press conference concerning federal taxes, between the president of the united States and one of his closest advis- I'm ded.
posted by Room 641-A at 3:44 PM on September 6, 2017 [16 favorites]


Calling your father "Daddy" when you are a grown woman is a thing in some regions and classes of America. It is very prevalent here in the South.

The problem I have with Ivanka (and women of her ilk) is she was raised to get what she wanted by being "Daddy's little girl" which meant being flirtatious and speaking in a kittenish way. Daddy can't be mad at his 5 year old, can he? Nor can he expect his 5 year old to act responsibly or do anything too hard. Plus 5 year olds love their Daddys best of all and think their Daddys are the best Daddy in the world. Cute but more than a bit off putting when the 5 year old is actually 35 and married. You wonder what Jared thinks of her act.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:44 PM on September 6, 2017 [26 favorites]


Talking about how you like it when your adult daughter calls you "Daddy," when you've previously stated you would be dating her if she wasn't your daughter and you've discussed her physical attributes with Howard Stern, among other moments in a 20-year-long history of making such public statements about her = vomit

Also, these DACA protesters at the Trump Hotel in DC have guts in spades.
posted by zachlipton at 3:44 PM on September 6, 2017 [50 favorites]


"She said 'Dad, can I go with'... she actually said 'Daddy, can I go with you?' I like that, right?" [emphasis his, not mine]

The way he says 'Daddy' with that emphasis... it's infantilizing a semi-adult conversation and turning Ivanka into Princess Morbucks (for Even More Powerpuff Girl References).
posted by hanov3r at 3:46 PM on September 6, 2017 [16 favorites]


Local NYC leftist election news : seriously vote Marc Fliender for DA
posted by The Whelk at 3:46 PM on September 6, 2017 [4 favorites]


Should have previewed. +++ to what Secret Live of Gravy said.
posted by hanov3r at 3:47 PM on September 6, 2017


Politico Trump’s favorite dodge: 'We’ll see.
Again and again on Wednesday — 11 times in total, before 1 p.m. — President Donald Trump deployed some form of his favorite dodge: “We’ll see.”

“We’ll see what happens. We’ll know in a very short period of time. But it looks like it could be something that will be not good. Believe me, not good,” he said, when asked by reporters about Hurricane Irma at an Oval Office meeting with congressional leaders Tuesday morning.[...]Whether he’s facing an uncomfortable question, trying to keep some mystery around his future plans, or simply filling up verbal space, Trump has frequently thrown out the phrase “we’ll see” when facing a barrage of questions from reporters.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:59 PM on September 6, 2017 [3 favorites]


Axios Trump's day as a Democratic president
President Trump played Democratic Party president today. He gave Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer everything they hoped for and sent Republican leaders spiraling into anger and disbelief.

In just the past 24 hours:
He handed Pelosi and Schumer the deal of the century
He nodded to bigger government, by agreeing to raise the debt limit, spend billions on disaster relief, and get zero spending cuts in exchange.
He held out the possibility of giving Democrats a much bigger prize in future negotiations about DACA
North Dakota's Democratic Sen. Heidi Heitkamp joined Trump on AF1, traveling to her home state for his tax reform speech.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:09 PM on September 6, 2017 [17 favorites]


About that last point,

TPM Trump Praises Democratic Senator Facing Tough 2018 Reelection
After months of President Trump finally had something nice to say about a senator facing a tough reelection. To Republicans’ chagrin, it was to praise one of their top 2018 targets.

After giving Sen. Heidi Heitkamp (D-ND) the VIP treatment on Air Force One, Trump hauled her onstage in her home state alongside a number of Republicans to praise her for her openness to supporting his tax cut plan.

“Senator Heitkamp, senator, come on up,” Trump said. “Everyone’s saying, ‘what’s she doing up here?’ But I’ll tell you what, good woman, and I think we’ll have your support, I hope we’ll have your support. Thank you very much, senator.”

Trump then shook her hand — a moment that may be likely to appear in campaign ads next year for Heitkamp in a state that Trump won by 36 percentage points
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:12 PM on September 6, 2017 [13 favorites]


As much as I enjoy seeing the Republicans flip out about Trump dealing with the Democrats, I'm going to cross my fingers and hope that the Democrats remember they're the frog and he's the scrorpion.
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:14 PM on September 6, 2017 [81 favorites]


they're the frog and he's the scrorpion

Surely they're the woman and he's the snake.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 4:17 PM on September 6, 2017 [6 favorites]


They should invite him to give tax reform rallies in Indiana and Nevada next, we already know he hates Heller.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:24 PM on September 6, 2017 [4 favorites]


I have been considering whether protestors in red hats saying "Make America Grow Aware" and waving signs that say #MAGA could get his approval and support.

Because he's been pretty clear that what he cares about in politics is self-glorification - he wants people around him to tell him how awesome he is; he doesn't actually care about almost anything the government does. And he really, really wants to be A Great Winner - so he's happy to agree to any deal that can actually get passed.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 4:32 PM on September 6, 2017 [2 favorites]


I would like to take this moment to note that the dude down the street, who has had a Trump sign about a hundred feet from his home at the edge of the tree line in our rural town, finally took the sign down this week.

Was it DACA? Was it that his neighbor who was selling his/her home and who finally said 'Look, do us a favor. Nobody wants to buy a house from us while you have that sign in the yard.'

Was it finally that the long-simmering argument between him (inevitably) and his wife (inevitably) that resulted in the sign being placed next to the woods a hundred feet from his house was finally resolved?

Did someone steal it?

This would all be great fun for fiction writers, in a fictional universe.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 4:41 PM on September 6, 2017 [11 favorites]


GOP livid after Trump cuts deal with Democrats

This is so awesome. The entire Congressional Republican delegation are now dignity wraiths.
posted by Justinian at 4:42 PM on September 6, 2017 [59 favorites]


Countdown to "I was never really a Republican; I just needed the votes. But the Dems know how to get things done, so..."
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 4:46 PM on September 6, 2017 [7 favorites]


God I don't like the thought of the Dems getting cozy with Trump but if they can be strategic about it I might just OD on schadenfreude watching Paul Ryan and co just go insane trying to navigate this new territory.

Trump is probably so fucking bored with the rules and work of a legislative agenda that the Dems could milk it for some actual good bills that could bring non-Freedom Caucus Republicans along as long as the bills make Trump feel good, and Ryan will just stand there and go "but-but-but Hastert Rule" and still let votes through.

Schumer has Trump's number. That take from upthread about the Noo Yawk dealmakers stance to play him is probably true. And the shriveled little "respect for others" ganglion in Trump's brain barely works but I can bet it flags shows of strength and dismisses bootlickers to be kicked on down to the manipulation lobe of the brain. Powerful thin skinned guys love that "you bust my balls but at least you're honest" thing when they can't intimidate someone, and I'm sure Schumer knows that.
posted by jason_steakums at 4:54 PM on September 6, 2017 [26 favorites]


OK. I've predicted it before, and I stand by it.

In a house with a Republican Majority, once Ryan is ousted as the ineffectual Randroid dweeb he is...

...say it with me, kids...

...Speaker of the House Pelosi.

If Trump swings from the doctrinaire far right to the wheeling and dealing center right, especially if the Dems give him easy victories in common-ground issues he can laud long and loud and demand everyone pat him on the back for... maybe CNN will have him back? They seem more... professional... than Fox.

Speaker of the House Pelosi. Fuck your Hastert Rule.
posted by Slap*Happy at 4:55 PM on September 6, 2017 [11 favorites]


I want what you’re smoking
posted by phearlez at 4:55 PM on September 6, 2017 [31 favorites]


Donald Trump has screwed over virtually everyone with whom he has ever done business. No can ever forget that fact--it's one of the few consistent threads throughout his life. Schumer and Pelosi must remember that if you try to use him to accomplish your agenda, he will fuck it up if it gets in the way of his own.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 5:03 PM on September 6, 2017 [39 favorites]


The idea that Democrats should pander to trump, both in terms of what that would mean practically, and the idea that it would actually work, are like something from a person who's come into 2017 from an alternate dimension. I think that they might be a hit over on Verrit, though.
posted by codacorolla at 5:03 PM on September 6, 2017 [9 favorites]


Captain Black "White", the Blend #1 in pouch, not tin - it's a smooth and cool burning smoke easily as complex and flavorful as the pricey Brit-blends. I pack a pipe on holidays and special occasions, and it gets me right in the headspace I like, without demanding more the next morning. One pouch lasts two years if I keep it in the freezer.

Also, look for a lot more Dems dealing with the master of the "Art of the Deal" when it won't compromise core Dem values, as his own congress loses their collective shit. Glorious.
posted by Slap*Happy at 5:04 PM on September 6, 2017 [4 favorites]


Hey y'all in addition to ringing your senators and reps, there are a lot of other people who have a stake in the DACA issue you can start contacting. One of my tactics over the last 8 months has been to try and get public figures to get on the record when Trump does something particularly heinous (ie the muslim ban) and get them to make a public statement on the issue outlining their position and any actions they'll take, if any. When I say public figures in this case I mean (where applicable):

Schools, both k-12 and University
Hospitals and health providers
Law enforcement, including local cops, sheriffs, etc
Local press, including journalists
Mayors, city councilors, school superintendents, and other relevant local government
Local businesses

The steps are as follows:
1) See if a public statement has been made.
1a) If a (good) public statement has been made thank whoever for their leadership on this issue.
1b) If an ambivalent/crappy statement has been made ask them to strengthen their statement on specific points and question why this hasn't been done already.
1c) If the statement is hard to find ask that it be made more prominent on their webpage, social media presence or whatever.
2) If a statement hasn't been made begin badgering them to make a statement.
2a) Ask why a statement hasn't already been made.
2b) Ask when you can expect a statement.
2c) Ask them to follow the leadership displayed by others who have already made statements.
3) Once a statement has been made, and it's good, and it's prominent, and you've thanked whoever, keep an eye on what happens. Hold them to their statement.
3a) If they deviate ask them why they are not doing what they said they'd do.
3b) Inform them that you're unhappy and give them a chance to respond or fix the issue.
3c) If they don't respond to the issue or fix it inform them that you'll be escalating this issue to their boss and the local press.

THIS IS INCREDIBLY EFFECTIVE. Small time local peeps are not used to almost any level of scrutiny at all, and it's really unnerving for them to be held accountable to the public. Of course the effects are amplified if you get other local friends and family to do the same.

Getting public statements made has the dual effect of holding people accountable and amplifying your own voice. If everyone in town is saying "By the way this sucks" in the paper and on their webpage, that normalises your position and makes it harder for right-wingers and other Trumpistas to push back. The right-wing is so used to being the only voice in the room on local issues they're quite often taken aback when they find out they're not the majority, just the people with the biggest mouths.

So for DACA stuff specifically think about how many young kids are likely to be immigrants/dreamers in your own local school district and how scared they must be. It's imperative that your local school district make a public statement on their position on these students and what they'll do to protect them. Is your local law enforcement going to comply with ICE? Has your local mayor/city council/whatever taken a public position? Has your local hospital said whether they make immigration status available to outside entities such as ICE? Do your local businesses employ immigrants and if so have they made a public statement on these valuable employees? etc.

By the way for the shy and socially anxious among you this can often be done entirely by email.
posted by supercrayon at 5:04 PM on September 6, 2017 [129 favorites]


The goal needs to be to crush Trump, discredit him and his kind forever, and deal the Republicans a fatal blow. Their party is dangerous and evil. The idea that bamboozling Trump would have any lasting positive effect is bizarre to me, everything we've seen so far would lead me to believe that no matter what temporary gains might be achieved, it would be a disaster for our country to give him any sort of positive momentum of any kind.
posted by cell divide at 5:07 PM on September 6, 2017 [12 favorites]


I still don't understand how this "deal" went down. What does Trump have to offer the Dems? What does he need from them? He can't make McConnell or Ryan do anything... I'm having a hard time imagining how this exchange works out.
  1. Democrats want DACA turned into law, and a shitton of emergency funding for hurricanes.
  2. We are about to hit the debt limit, which the Tea Partiers don't want extended. Rest of the GOP is fine with raising the limit.
  3. So Schumer tells Trump that the Dems will vote to raise the limit (which they were already gonna do), if ... what? Trump pressures Ryan to bring a clean DACA bill to the floor?
I don't understand the political calculus here. Someone explain it in a way that doesn't require Chuck Schumer to trust Donald Trump.
posted by butterstick at 5:07 PM on September 6, 2017 [7 favorites]


President Trump played Democratic Party president today.

I see what you're doing, 2017 writers. You're about as subtle as a 40-foot-high wall. You're trying to set up an ending where, just before Election Day, Trump says "In my heart I have always been a Democrat!" and then he turns the 3-way split in the Democratic primary into a 4-way split while giving the Republicans a perfect opportunity to distance themselves from Trump and then Ted Cruz or some equally bad human-shaped cloud of pestilence wins the 2020 election.

I WON'T HAVE IT! Write a different ending. Please!
posted by mmoncur at 5:10 PM on September 6, 2017 [13 favorites]


Donald Trump has screwed over virtually everyone with whom he has ever done business. No can ever forget that fact--it's one of the few consistent threads throughout his life. Schumer and Pelosi must remember that if you try to use him to accomplish your agenda, he will fuck it up if it gets in the way of his own.

It doesn't have to pass, just getting him to pull this working with the Dems move more is effective to deepen the cracks in the Republican caucus, even if it fails. Hell, Trump having a little fling with the Dems to make Ryan and McConnell jealous is probably the most straightforward route to impeachment there is, whether bills pass out of it or not.

I still don't understand how this "deal" went down. What does Trump have to offer the Dems? He can't make McConnell or Ryan do anything... I'm having a hard time imagining how this exchange works out.

Remember, Donald Trump doesn't know how any of this works. He seemed honestly taken aback that the Democrats didn't help him repeal Obamacare, he's oblivious.
posted by jason_steakums at 5:13 PM on September 6, 2017 [33 favorites]


I see what you're doing, 2017 writers. You're about as subtle as a 40-foot-high wall.

Not even trying anymore.

@nils_gilman
As of right now, Hurricane Irma is forecast to make landfall directly at Mar a Lago http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/graphics_at1.shtml [map projection]
posted by chris24 at 5:15 PM on September 6, 2017 [80 favorites]


Like just before this deal his plan was literally "I'm rescinding DACA so that Congress passes DACA into law and if they don't I might do it by executive order or not lol idk"

He is not a very smart person.
posted by jason_steakums at 5:17 PM on September 6, 2017 [12 favorites]


@nils_gilman
As of right now, Hurricane Irma is forecast to make landfall directly at Mar a Lago http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/graphics_at1.shtml [map projection]


Okay c'mon now. I'm not religious but god is clearly sending blatant messages at this point. I imagine god angrily wondering why his clear omens are being ignored. "I blot out the sun, I send wind and rain, I sent all those fires and turned the sky red. This used to work! Is anyone listening to me?!" Pretty sure god supports DACA.
posted by supercrayon at 5:20 PM on September 6, 2017 [63 favorites]


Right. This "deal" was the Democrats giving up literally nothing in order to kick the can down the road only 3 months... and then they will try to do it again then! It couldn't have gone any better. I imagine it something like this...
SCHUMER TO MCCONNELL: Senator? You can have my answer now, if you like. My offer is this: nothing. Not even the fee for the gaming license, which I would appreciate if you would put up personally.
TRUMP: DONE! MAGA!!!!!11!!1!1eleven
posted by Justinian at 5:21 PM on September 6, 2017 [34 favorites]


I see what you're doing, 2017 writers. You're about as subtle as a 40-foot-high wall.

Not even trying anymore.

@nils_gilman
As of right now, Hurricane Irma is forecast to make landfall directly at Mar a Lago http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/graphics_at1.shtml [map projection]


It's God's shitty NaNoWriMo project.
posted by schadenfrau at 5:23 PM on September 6, 2017 [52 favorites]


And so I'd really like to solve "where is a good place for more conservative anti-Trump organizers" because I would like to put those people, those connections and networks, to better use than "man, I'm not giving a dime to the State party, how about you? Nah, me either."

A concerted effort to run independent anti-Trump conservative candidates in every single local and state election?
posted by showbiz_liz at 5:24 PM on September 6, 2017 [15 favorites]


I don't understand the political calculus here. Someone explain it in a way that doesn't require Chuck Schumer to trust Donald Trump.

That's the part that's bothered me -- Pelosi/Schumer still need GOP leadership and GOP votes (at least some) to bring these bills up for vote. So leadership and whatever votes they can count on are on board, too, however much they complain.

Kevin Drum suggests that McConnell/Ryan are okay with the three month punt as it gives them a chance to deal with all the other crap on their September calendar and isolates the Freedom Caucus, whom everybody hates, at least for the time being, while appeasing the business wing of the party, who really don't want a debt crisis or a shuttered Federal govt. When December arrives, the board will have changed, and more deals will have to be struck.
posted by notyou at 5:24 PM on September 6, 2017 [5 favorites]


The idea that bamboozling Trump would have any lasting positive effect is bizarre to me, everything we've seen so far would lead me to believe that no matter what temporary gains might be achieved, it would be a disaster for our country to give him any sort of positive momentum of any kind.

Maybe if he starts working with the Dems, the Republicans will finally get on board with impeachment!
posted by showbiz_liz at 5:28 PM on September 6, 2017 [12 favorites]


Yea this is at best a qualified "win". Democrats gave up nothing, but they won basically nothing but time, and if Republicans are able to use that time to regroup behind one last Obamacare repeal effort like Trump apparently still wants, well, that wasn't a win after all. Trump doesn't actually speak for Congressional Republicans, they could tell him to go fuck his deal and put forth some other terrible funding bill tomorrow and dare him to veto it, knowing he'll in all likelihood cave. And they're still going to want all their devastating spending cuts in December, that fight isn't going away, it's going to be had at some point before the midterm.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:31 PM on September 6, 2017 [5 favorites]


Definitely the most confusing part of today's news is how everyone seems to be treating this "deal" as a done deal despite Paul Ryan being a) openly opposed to it, b) at risk of being Boehner'd if he supports it, and c) likely able to stop it. Given Trump's limited influence over Congress, having Trump agree to it is practically irrelevant unless the alternative scenario was "the House and Senate will pass it but Trump will veto it".
posted by allegedly at 5:37 PM on September 6, 2017 [5 favorites]


And so I'd really like to solve "where is a good place for more conservative anti-Trump organizers" because I would like to put those people, those connections and networks, to better use than "man, I'm not giving a dime to the State party, how about you? Nah, me either."

You have the perfect opportunity to do that on November 7 in Washington state. A special election for State Senate District 45 has the potential of flipping the State Senate from Republican to Democratic. You could put your efforts into getting Democrat Manka Dhingra elected.
posted by JackFlash at 5:46 PM on September 6, 2017 [8 favorites]


"How are you sleeping at night? You’re a monster," Jetton wrote to Cobb's White House email account on Tuesday night.

"Like a baby ... " wrote Cobb, who was brought in to the White House to oversee Trump's legal and media response to the ongoing Russia investigation.


My actual train of thought after reading this passage: "Wait, no way the President's personal lawyer has a White House email account. Trump's personal attorney, who is helping the President cope with the personal criminal-and-civil repercussions of the investigation into him and his campaign -- which are, like, not occasioned by Trump's office and aren't any sort of government work duties -- seriously has a whitehouse-dot-gov email address? How can that possibly be? [googling] WAIT, YOU'RE TELLING ME TRUMP'S MOTHERLOVING CRIMINAL LAWYER IS ON THE GOD DAMN WHITE HOUSE PAYROLL? So I'm paying Ty Cobb? OH MY GOD THESE FUCKING FLAGRANTLY TERRIBLE PEOPLE, aaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrgh."
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:48 PM on September 6, 2017 [58 favorites]


So pretty much a normal 2017 evening for me, is what I'm saying.
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:50 PM on September 6, 2017 [44 favorites]


Jesus Christ, I'm pretty sure some of you think the Democratic leadership can't eat crackers right, either.

Some of them might have antiquated politics, but they're not dumb. These are the people that got us the ACA the first time around. I'm gonna trust that they didn't get rolled in the room by Donald Dipshit.
posted by schadenfrau at 5:52 PM on September 6, 2017 [56 favorites]


That's the part that's bothered me -- Pelosi/Schumer still need GOP leadership and GOP votes (at least some) to bring these bills up for vote. So leadership and whatever votes they can count on are on board, too, however much they complain.

Pelosi and Schumer gave up something, we just don't know what it was. Whatever it is, it's big enough for Trump to agree and Ryan and McConnell to promise to take the abuse and keep their pie-holes shut about it.
posted by ctmf at 5:55 PM on September 6, 2017 [2 favorites]


Kevin Drum suggests that McConnell/Ryan are okay with the three month punt

McConnell has said he'll introduce the amendments.
After the gathering, McConnell said he would add provisions extending government funding and the debt limit through mid-December to legislation passed by the House on Wednesday providing $7.85 billion in Hurricane Harvey relief.

“The president agreed with Senator Schumer and Congresswoman Pelosi to do a three-month [funding extension] and a debt ceiling into December, and that’s what I will be offering, based on the president’s decision, to the bill,” McConnell told reporters. “The president can speak for himself, but his feeling was that we needed to come together to not create a picture of divisiveness at a time of genuine national crisis.”
posted by chris24 at 5:55 PM on September 6, 2017 [3 favorites]


You know it kills Ryan and McConnell to let the Dems look good. Something's got them gloating and snickering in private thinking they got the better end of the deal.
posted by ctmf at 5:56 PM on September 6, 2017 [4 favorites]


If I were a Republican and Trump had just settled the debt thing - or at least kicked it down the road - I would secretly be mad with relief. My bet is that the Republicans do not want to own the giant disaster of shutting down the government. Having Trump cut a deal and take the blame is perfect. Remember that the Republicans simultaneously want to screw all ordinary people and not get blamed for screwing all ordinary people - they're torn between the desire to take all our money and ruin our lives and the fear of being blamed for it.
posted by Frowner at 6:02 PM on September 6, 2017 [22 favorites]


All the same, if I were Mueller, I'd avoid exposing my back to either side of the aisle now. Agreeing to not interfere when the special investigator "goes away" would be huge enough to get this reaction.
posted by ctmf at 6:05 PM on September 6, 2017 [2 favorites]


“The president agreed with Senator Schumer and Congresswoman Pelosi to do a three-month [funding extension] and a debt ceiling into December, and that’s what I will be offering, based on the president’s decision, to the bill,” McConnell told reporters.

See, this is why I don't really factor in the fact that the GOP congressional leadership isn't technically beholden to Trump, they always roll over for him even if they hate every second. They're desperate to keep their caucus together and afraid of Trump's sway with the base. And they'll roll over even when his demands come from some senseless tantrum that actively hurts their agenda, there doesn't need to be some quid pro quo with the Democrats for Trump to make a "deal" and McConnell and Ryan won't demand one once Trump tells them they're doing this.
posted by jason_steakums at 6:09 PM on September 6, 2017 [6 favorites]


All the same, if I were Mueller, I'd avoid exposing my back to either side of the aisle now. Agreeing to not interfere when the special investigator "goes away" would be huge enough to get this reaction.

This is insane.

Trump is upset with McRyan because of all their previous failures, because they have displeased him, because he's unhappy and it's their job to make him happy. So he wanted to hurt them. Taking the Democrat's side hurts them, in his eyes.

Meanwhile the Dems are more than happy to hasten the GOP civil war by cleaving the establishment/business wing from its Trump base. They can't get the evil shit done if they're fighting each other. That's how we've gotten this far without ACA repeal.

This isn't eleven dimensional chess. It's not even checkers. It's when that dumb bully invents a game called "hitting someone else."
posted by schadenfrau at 6:11 PM on September 6, 2017 [90 favorites]


omg Trump is Leroy Jenkins

Minus the team focus and ability to plan long term.
posted by Celsius1414 at 6:18 PM on September 6, 2017 [25 favorites]


This is insane.

Completely agree. If you're so dejected you think the Dems agreed to let the Mueller investigation be killed in exchange for a THREE MONTH extension of the debt ceiling and government funding you probably need to take a walk and smell the flowers or something. Might as well believe they agreed to deport everyone who can't trace both sides of their family back to the Mayflower and/or are billionaires.
posted by Justinian at 6:19 PM on September 6, 2017 [33 favorites]


If the Democrats gave concessions it wouldn't be "me and Chuck made a deal" it would be "weak Schumer came crawling to me and I threw him a bone" because that's how Donald Trump treats people under his thumb. It's him spiting Ryan and McConnell. All those stories lately about how McConnell and Donald have been fighting, how McConnell gives him the silent treatment to keep him on track in conversation? All the complaints from GOP leadership about Trump throwing everything and the kitchen sink into the short window they have this fall for their agenda? Of course he'll lash out.
posted by jason_steakums at 6:20 PM on September 6, 2017 [9 favorites]


I can't follow this drama. Someone give an ELI5 on it.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 6:23 PM on September 6, 2017 [5 favorites]


omg Trump is Leroy Jenkins
posted by The World Famous at 6:10 PM on September 6 [+] [!]


My Google Fu came up with LeeRoy Jenkins. Is that the reference/meme?
posted by Mental Wimp at 6:24 PM on September 6, 2017 [11 favorites]


>>omg Trump is Leroy Jenkins
>Minus the team focus and ability to plan long term.


at least he has chicken
posted by entropicamericana at 6:24 PM on September 6, 2017 [8 favorites]


Could we not with the Mar-a-Lago schadenfreude? Trump's not here, he won't get hurt, insurance will pay for whatever of his gets wrecked. Unlike the rest of us who live here.
posted by Daily Alice at 6:26 PM on September 6, 2017 [35 favorites]


Mental Wimp, yes that's it.
posted by Room 641-A at 6:42 PM on September 6, 2017 [2 favorites]


This discussion does illustrate the situation Pelosi and Schumer are in though, where people are so super-sensitive to the idea that Democratic leadership might not be capital-R Resisting Trump at every possible turn that their every action will be viewed through the worst lens possible.

Schumer is reportedly meeting with Trump again tomorrow to talk about the Gateway Program (new rail tunnels under the Hudson and expand Penn Station, among other transit programs, though I still dream of a day when the 7 train goes to Penn Station). That's a good thing, I think, and it can't happen if everyone is going to jump down Schumer's throat for not Resisting enough.

On the other hand, Schumer and Pelosi have been the voice of not giving Trump an inch since inauguration day, and they just got everything they wanted, so it's unclear why they'd actually have to give Trump anything at all.

Definitely the most confusing part of today's news is how everyone seems to be treating this "deal" as a done deal despite Paul Ryan being a) openly opposed to it, b) at risk of being Boehner'd if he supports it, and c) likely able to stop it.

The House passed the Harvey bill today. McConnell says he'll attach the amendments and put it to a vote in the Senate. Then it goes back and will have to pass the House? What is Ryan going to do about it at that point? The Freedom Caucus won't support it, no, but is Ryan going to be the one to personally go against the Senate and the President to stop the Harvey bill, cause the government to default, and shut down the government? And if you think he is for some reason, what deal do you think Ryan wants instead? Ryan wants the Harvey funding, to avoid default, and to avoid a shutdown. I don't see how he blows up the deal, or where he goes from there if he does? And in the event the deal somehow all blows up, Pelosi and Schumer lost absolutely nothing out of it.
posted by zachlipton at 6:50 PM on September 6, 2017 [41 favorites]


How Democrats Rolled Trump on the Debt Ceiling (Ryan Liza, The New Yorker)
After the deal was announced, Republicans inside and outside of government were shocked. Ryan was left looking ridiculous. “Trump’s made a career out of being a gut player,” a Republican close to McConnell told me. “The problem is, his gut is always wrong when it comes to advancing a legislative agenda.” Yet, aboard Air Force One, Trump seemed pleased with the deal. “We had a very good meeting with Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer,” Trump said. “We agreed to a three-month extension on debt ceiling, which they consider to be sacred.” When I called around to Democratic offices on Wednesday afternoon, several aides were careful not to gloat about what they had accomplished, lest Trump realize how much he had given away to “Chuck and Nancy,” as Trump called the Democratic leaders several times in his gaggle with reporters.

Later in the day, the White House began arguing that the deal was actually a win for Trump, because it kicked several difficult issues from September to December and allowed Trump to focus solely on tax reform this month. Perhaps. But McConnell and Ryan were plotting to take away a loaded weapon from Schumer and Pelosi, and Trump returned it to their hands.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 6:53 PM on September 6, 2017 [18 favorites]


Anyway, go watch Lou Dobbs (really, I said that, this is so weird) bashing the hell out of Paul Ryan in "the death of a RINO": "President Trump not only took RINO Ryan to the woodshed, but eliminated any need for any Republican to pretend that Ryan is a real Republican."

Josh Marshall's take is also interesting: Why Did Trump Shiv the GOP?, not least for this incredible bit of shade:
This late Times report confirms that even Trump’s Treasury Secretary, the husband of actress Laura Linton, was caught off guard.
But also for the point that Trump is operating bluntly here and that there's no need to read a whole lot into it:
Donald Trump’s core drive is dominance. We see that in his politics which is revanchist and destructive and in its less dire manifestations driven by a zero sum vision of human and economic relations. For me to win, you have to lose. The more fluid and collaborative aspects of human interaction seem entirely lost on Trump. This is why he is the leader of the revanchist, racist far right.

But the political or ideological manifestations are secondary to the personal one. Trump needs to dominate people. Clearly Trump felt that McConnell and Ryan are not serving him well enough or loyally enough or both. So he lashed out or tried to damage them. Schumer and Pelosi were simply the most convenient cudgels available.
If I had to guess, I'd bet that Schumer and Pelosi are promising Trump they'll fix his DACA problem for him too and take all the pressure off him on that, as he tries to backtrack.
posted by zachlipton at 6:57 PM on September 6, 2017 [23 favorites]


I can't follow this drama. Someone give an ELI5 on it.

I don't think any of the rest of us understand it any more than you do, but basically, the capsule version is that Trump has endorsed (which, notably, has almst no legislative weight, since he doesn't vote or control Congress's agenda) the Democratic-approved short-term plan for budgeting and debt ceiling increase, which is not a victory for any specific Democratic legislative goals but is a tactical victory for Democratic ability to influence the legislative process. AFAICT, the motivation it is one or more of the following things:
  1. Trump is desperate to not look legislatively hapless and figures bipartisanship is the only way to make any progress (this credits him with more vision and grace than I would).
  2. Trump is all pissy at McConnell and Ryan and is making overtures to Democratic leadership out of sheer spite.
  3. Schumer and Pelosi have made some sort of nonpublic concession to Trump (seems unlikely, unless there's a low-priority legislative goal they can throw to the wolves).
  4. Trump acts on pure impulse, and happened to do so at a time when Schumer and Pelosi were making polite noises, so he just decided to do what they wanted.
posted by jackbishop at 7:01 PM on September 6, 2017 [30 favorites]


My pet theory is that Schumer arranged to be the last person to talk to Trump, and Trump always goes with whatever the last person he talked to said.
posted by Justinian at 7:03 PM on September 6, 2017 [35 favorites]


Why is everyone assuming that Trump will follow through on this "deal"? Not that he won't, necessarily; it's just sort of random, like all the other semi-spontaneous bullshit that continually comes out of his mouth. Not only does he have zero integrity or decency or business sense, he is a person for whom words have no meaning in terms of representing actual facts or ideas or plans. They're just sounds emerging from gaping maw for the sole purpose of turning people's attention his way.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:04 PM on September 6, 2017 [13 favorites]


The only way Trump can not follow through is by vetoing the bill containing Harvey relief funds, avoiding default, and keeping the government open. I mean, it's Trump, so there is always a real possibility he does something that makes absolutely no sense, but why would he do that exactly?
posted by zachlipton at 7:07 PM on September 6, 2017 [12 favorites]


Anyway, go watch Lou Dobbs (really, I said that, this is so weird) bashing the hell out of Paul Ryan in "the death of a RINO"

And Mark Meadows is plotting with Steve Bannon for who to replace Ryan with
Several people close to Bannon and Meadows said on Wednesday that the two men, who met on Monday on Capitol Hill, have begun to discuss who could replace Ryan as speaker, should conservatives rebel against him.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:08 PM on September 6, 2017 [9 favorites]


Holy moly. What has happened over the past 24 hours. Trump has sold out his base and the comments section at Breitbart are quite a site to see right now. They are eating their own. Since the "revisit" tweet last night and his deal today, a lot of Trump supporters are feeling sold out. Then I realized. Why am I reading Breitbart. Going to dig in and read this thread now. It's been awhile since I've entered an election thread. (Am I dating myself there?)
posted by Roger Dodger at 7:11 PM on September 6, 2017 [18 favorites]


Tropical Depressions (Sam Kriss and Ellie Mae O’Hagan, The Baffler)
Political depression means staring into a vastness, but one without grandeur or the sublime, one that’s almost invisible. When we wake up with every morning, it’s just there, seeping into our bones. “I am amazed,” Paffard tells us, “by our inability to engage with things that are scary and bigger than us. It’s the minutiae that keep us going . . . it’s too big for us to hold in our minds.” What can we do? We’re only human.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 7:13 PM on September 6, 2017 [5 favorites]


The only way Trump can not follow through is by vetoing the bill containing Harvey relief funds, avoiding default, and keeping the government open. I mean, it's Trump, so there is always a real possibility he does something that makes absolutely no sense, but why would he do that exactly?

Because he is aces at stepping on his own dick, for one, and also because of what Roger Dodger just said:
Trump has sold out his base and the comments section at Breitbart are quite a site to see right now. They are eating their own. Since the "revisit" tweet last night and his deal today, a lot of Trump supporters are feeling sold out.
Uh oh, how will daddy survive if the evil racist morons don't love him no more?
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:17 PM on September 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


Don't forget, Junior goes to Washington tomorrow:

Donald Trump Jr. to Meet With Senate Russia Investigators (Nicholas Fandos, NYT)

Set your alarms for droppo.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:18 PM on September 6, 2017 [13 favorites]


Why aren't the usual "today is the day he truly became President" talking heads tripping over themselves to kiss his ass for a show of supposed* bipartisanship today? It's almost like if it's good for anyone to the left of your average Republican in any way, it doesn't count with the mainstream media. Crazy how that works.

*supposed because, of course, he doesn't know what he's doing
posted by jason_steakums at 7:20 PM on September 6, 2017 [8 favorites]


Trump has sold out his base and the comments section at Breitbart are quite a site to see right now. They are eating their own.

"Oh shut up, silly alt-right," said the reptile with a grin...
posted by Cookiebastard at 7:20 PM on September 6, 2017 [2 favorites]



@nils_gilman
As of right now, Hurricane Irma is forecast to make landfall directly at Mar a Lago http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/graphics_at1.shtml [map projection]


Maybe the destruction and devastation will lead him to resign in order to rebuild. (And work his insurance-fraud game.)

Eh, probably not.
posted by jgirl at 7:20 PM on September 6, 2017


Not to find fault, though. If Trump sincerely wants to give Ryan and McConnell's careers the trajectory of a dropped bowling ball, piss off the slack-jawed maga-magas all day long, and volunteer to be Chuck-n-Nancy's doormat, far be it from me to stand in his way.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:30 PM on September 6, 2017 [2 favorites]




That just hurts my head. And I even read the linked article.
posted by anya32 at 7:42 PM on September 6, 2017 [2 favorites]


@nils_gilman
As of right now, Hurricane Irma is forecast to make landfall directly at Mar a Lago


We better hope not, or Trump will rob the taxpayers for even more money:

Remember When Trump Took Insurance $ for Hurricane Damage That Reportedly Didn’t Exist? (Alberto Luperon, LawNewz)
Trump declined to give the AP relevant records about the insurance claim, or to even comment on the Mar-a-Lago hurricane damage. Hank Stein, the insurance adjuster who assessed the claim, told the AP there was some water damage to an observation deck, a golf course, roof, and landscape, but said he couldn’t remember the details.

“I wish I could give you some more information on the breakdown,” he said.

The AP could not identify which insurer paid the $17 million, and Trump did not mention it in the deposition. LawNewz.com reached out to the Trump Organization for comment.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:49 PM on September 6, 2017 [11 favorites]


Speaking of Trump properties, the Daily Beast is reporting that Russians are flocking to his hotels and resorts to give birth to American citizens.

I just... this is the same week as the DACA debacle, right? Maybe I'm drunk and just forgot having had anything to drink.
posted by Superplin at 7:55 PM on September 6, 2017 [42 favorites]


In light of the Facebook news, this amazing thread on the challenges of counterintelligence when operations are run through social networks from Asha Rangappa, former FBI Special Agent from the Counteringelligence division, is fascinating.

I turned it into paragraphs for easy reading the best I could, but I'm going to link to that rather than include it, since it became too long to stick in the thread, even for my tastes.

The short point is that the FBI had tools they could use if a foreign agent was targeting a journalist with propaganda. None of those tools work when foreign governments can just run their own Facebook campaigns. The FBI can sit around and watch foreign disinformation operations in realtime and can't do anything about it. And foreign intelligence agencies know this and know that our Constitution and freedoms give them enormous opportunties here, that the FBI, rightfully, doesn't just get to ban speech on social media.

The comparison to terorrism is frightening, because we've seen the excesses and abuses of the war on terror, but this is the first time I've seen someone actually raise the honest question of what we want to do about foreign information operations in this country rather than just treating that as obvious. And it turns out, there's a lot of questions and trade-offs involved.

Anyway, highly recommended reading.
posted by zachlipton at 8:06 PM on September 6, 2017 [36 favorites]


Calling your father "Daddy" = OK

Talking about how you like it when your adult daughter calls you "Daddy" = problematic


It would probably be less problematic if Trump had not multiple times alluded to having sex with his daughter
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:10 PM on September 6, 2017 [22 favorites]


Schools, both k-12 and University
Hospitals and health providers
Law enforcement, including local cops, sheriffs, etc
Local press, including journalists
Mayors, city councilors, school superintendents, and other relevant local government
Local businesses


Brilliant post, supercrayon, and may I please add that you should not leave out local libraries, museums, and arts organizations. Often, as staff we have little latitude to speak out, but if the community is clearly and publicly demanding a response to something, it is far more likely to happen. And cultural issues are very much what we are about. So don't let us off the hook.
posted by Miko at 8:27 PM on September 6, 2017 [9 favorites]


I just learned that Jeff Sessions is a fan of the racist Johnson-Reed immigration act of 1924. The Act applied quotas based on the national origin of migrants capped at 2% of the percentage of people from that country that had been living in the USA in 1890. It was explicitly intended to reduce the number of Jews and Southern Europeans entering the USA, and it banned Asian and African migration altogether.

Daniel J Solomon in The Forward: Jeff Sessions Ends DACA — He Also Praised Keeping Out Jews In The 1920s
[via David Schraub's blog]

Also worth reading: An Open Letter to Jeff Sessions by June Shih. Yes, the man who praised the law that barred Asians from the USA has American grandchildren of Asian descent.
posted by Joe in Australia at 8:36 PM on September 6, 2017 [30 favorites]


Not only was it intended to reduce the numbers of Jews from entering the USA it was explicitly used to deny Jewish immigration during the holocaust and was directly responsible for the deaths of thousands of fleeing Jews who were under this law, returned to Nazi Germany. May God spit in Session's eyes and make him blind.
posted by Homo neanderthalensis at 8:42 PM on September 6, 2017 [76 favorites]


The Blathering Superego At The End Of History
I am not qualified to make, nor do I want to make, any claims about the psychological character of any particular American liberal. And I am not at all convinced that Freudian psychoanalysis constitutes the most useful way to do so, in any case. But the superego as a metaphor for the collective operation of the liberal world order throws a great deal of much-needed light on what we are observing in the wake of the 2016 election. When history is meant to be over and a single political faction begins to conceive of itself as the permanent manager of a static world, then that faction ceases to be political in the ordinary sense. Politics, in its classic incarnation, is the art of deriving an is from an ought; the point, as Marx famously said, is not to describe the world but to change it. But if the world is as it ought to be already and the essential task is to maintain it — that is, to police the circumscribed boundaries of permissible behavior and ideas — then those tasked with that maintenance must conceive of themselves as acting above politics itself. They become a superego, beyond the libidinal whims of any faction and dedicated not to some alternative vision of the world but to resisting all impulse toward alternatives. Possibility goes in, correction comes out. The End of History suggests a perfectly healthy mind; thus, any attempt to alter this situation is dangerous. But the trouble with superegos is that, once they have taken on this role, they cannot cease to perform it. When the id can be kept in control, all is well. But when it can’t, then the result is not the superego’s surrender — it is repetitious, manic dysfunction. It becomes the blathering superego at the end of history.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 8:52 PM on September 6, 2017 [15 favorites]


zachlipton: "[T]his amazing thread on the challenges of counterintelligence when operations are run through social networks from Asha Rangappa, former FBI Special Agent from the Counteringelligence division, is fascinating."

Asha Rangappa: It is IMPERATIVE that EVERY AMERICAN make an effort to cross over in meaningful ways with people we disagree with. This is hard. Trust me, I am guilty of this. But this isolation by ideology is what allows disinformation Russians create to succeed. Uniting over SHARED VALUES (freedom, tolerance, inclusiveness, respect) is really what neutralizes Russian propaganda. Which means: if you see someone, anyone -- even from another party, expressing these values in any way -- SUPPORT THEM


This advice feels as effectual as advocating for shorter showers to combat droughts: certainly helps, although it should not be the primary focus of efforts. Unfortunately, the primary focus according to the former agent should be to cede the responsibility of combating disinformation campaigns to Facebook and Twitter themselves. This is unimpressive, even if the government is assisting them. I would rather not trust my country's safety to the whims of Mark Zuckerberg. I hope that we can find something better.
posted by TypographicalError at 8:52 PM on September 6, 2017 [2 favorites]


"It doesn't matter what he tells the Dems he's offering them. What he actually offers them is an opportunity to alienate him further from his own party in exchange for them giving up nothing."
That is not how you take Trump down. That is how you take Trump down & let the Republicans blame you for it!
posted by Pinback at 8:58 PM on September 6, 2017


You wonder what Jared thinks of her act.

fake, nobody has ever wondered what J/K thinks about anything
posted by queenofbithynia at 9:31 PM on September 6, 2017 [26 favorites]


ELECTIONS NEWS

** 2018 Senate -- GOP revising their high hopes for Senate gains down to keeping their current margin. [National Journal]

** 2018 House:
-- As mentioned earlier, Dave Reichert [WA-08] is retiring, making him the second GOP rep of an Obama/Obama/Clinton district to retire. This is obviously a prime Dem pickup opportunity. More retirements may be coming.

-- Dave Wasserman - who saw the 2010 GOP wave coming - thinks 2018 may be a Dem wave, primarily due to the new trend of highly educated folks voting Dem. [528]
** Odds & ends:
-- Chris Christie approval ratings continue to be at historic lows, boding ill for GOP chances to block the Dems from picking up a trifecta in November.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:37 PM on September 6, 2017 [34 favorites]


& let the Republicans blame you for it!

Hahahaha--the GOP will blame the Dems no matter what. Trying to avoid this is a fool's errand.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 9:50 PM on September 6, 2017 [25 favorites]


We all know that Ivanka will be one of the odds-on favorites for the Republican nominee for President some day, right? That -- and setting her up for some serious influence peddling/corruption opportunities -- is the end-game for all this nepotistic reputation polishing. Mark my words.
posted by darkstar at 9:52 PM on September 6, 2017 [2 favorites]


Have we talked about/has anyone used Verrit at all?

You can't use Verrit. There is literally no way to submit a Verrit if you aren't a trusted Verriter, which means it's really just a one-way platform for DNC/DLC types to pretend they're using social media to disseminate information, which they really aren't because why would you read Verrit?
posted by mightygodking at 9:55 PM on September 6, 2017 [11 favorites]


Dave Wasserman - who saw the 2010 GOP wave coming - thinks 2018 may be a Dem wave, primarily due to the new trend of highly educated folks voting Dem.

I don't know about that. However, something I have noticed. In the past, after the election, loser bumper stickers disappear and the winners stick around. I recall seeing W stickers all over the place.

I live in a red county - it went 68% for Trump. Before the election, the stickers were everywhere. I haven't seen a Trumpence sticker in days. Maybe it's confirmation bias, but I really do think there has been a substantial sense of buyers remorse even here in the rabidly red west.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 9:56 PM on September 6, 2017 [11 favorites]


Plenty of H stickers still up around here (and Bernie, lol).
posted by ryanrs at 10:06 PM on September 6, 2017 [6 favorites]


Along those lines, I've mentioned that one tiny bit of resistance I perform is turning over any mags or tabloids with a Trump in the cover while I'm in line at the market. I realized the other day that it's been a few weeks since I've seen one, even on the Enquirer, which is owned by a FoT.
posted by Room 641-A at 10:19 PM on September 6, 2017 [5 favorites]


Pelosi and Schumer gave up something, we just don't know what it was. Whatever it is, it's big enough for Trump to agree and Ryan and McConnell to promise to take the abuse and keep their pie-holes shut about it.

And when 45 inevitably reneges on some part of this, they have no reason to follow through on their end of the bargain.

I don't think they're dumb enough to expect 45 to uphold his end of the bargain. The only smart thing to do is to assume he will always try to cheat or double-cross and to make that part of the plan. Therefore, if he pulls out, they haven't really lost anything, but anything they gain -- including and especially just playing for time -- means they (and rational Americans everywhere) coming out ahead.

Yes, they can make mistakes and screw up and 2017 means everything can always be absolute shit, but so far Pelosi an Schumer seem pretty smart. Pelosi has taken this administration for a ride on its own budget once already. I think she's smart enough to do it again, and so far it looks like she just did.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:27 PM on September 6, 2017 [35 favorites]


I don't even with this Daily Beast story by Katie Zavadski, Russians Flock to Trump Properties to Give Birth to U.S. Citizens:
While Trump rails against U.S.-born children of undocumented immigrants, his Florida properties have become a playground for birth tourists from Russia’s upper crust. The Daily Beast has discovered several companies are advertising rentals in Trump properties to expectant Russian parents. While the Trump Organization does not directly profit from subleases of privately owned condos, it does benefit from Russian patronage of the nearby Trump International Beach Resort. (The Trump Organization did not return requests comment.)
There is, to be clear, nothing wrong with any of this, besides it all being just way too on the nose.
posted by zachlipton at 12:31 AM on September 7, 2017 [27 favorites]


We all know that Ivanka will be one of the odds-on favorites for the Republican nominee for President some day, right?

Actually, I don't know that and I think it's a cynical, defeatist assumption. I think the Trump stench is the last thing voters will want to dab behind their ears after this is over.
posted by thelonius at 12:47 AM on September 7, 2017 [12 favorites]


I think it's a cynical, defeatist assumption

Why defeatest? If Ivanka 4 GOP nom is defeat, what would victory look like? Some trad GOP shitbird? Any possible Repub candidate (including, of course, Ivanka) will be ghoulish. Comparing them is possible, I guess, but it's a little like comparing different flavors of diarrhea.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 1:05 AM on September 7, 2017 [2 favorites]


Went to my first ADAPT meeting.

Firstly, these guys are fucking heroes, which I knew, but damn. At the meeting, a woman in a motorized chair told the tale of how, while marching with another group which a few weeks ago, she'd had a stroke. The other group (sorry, didn't catch the name, not referred to as antifa but something fascists) had to do something (disable the motors) to her chair and take her several blocks to the nearest ER. Why 9-1-1 wasn't on the scene, I don't know. But you get the picture.

There was a march with ADAPT and DACA folks to the detainee center, where chants supporting those detained could be heard by the detainees.

Secondly, there are a lot of smart people involved. People doing legislative work (lobbying, bill writing, etc) along with the demonstrations.

Thirdly, I learned that if you have a leather cowboy hat that's heavy enough, it's good for wheelchair users. You see, most hats are problematic for folks in wheelchairs because you can't clap a hand on your head to keep your hat on your head unless you want to remain stationary.

No, really guys, you don't understand; I love hats. I've been hatless for about fifteen years. This is huge.
posted by angrycat at 1:09 AM on September 7, 2017 [107 favorites]


You see, most hats are problematic for folks in wheelchairs because you can't clap a hand on your head to keep your hat on your head unless you want to remain stationary.

I've worn a Tilley TH-4 for years. It has 'fore and aft' lanyards that do a great job of holding it on in the wind. e.x.: Sailing.
posted by mikelieman at 2:28 AM on September 7, 2017 [3 favorites]


> Ivanka's future involves exile.
A point of reference: Son of former Ukraine president Viktor Yanukovych 'drowned in lake' [Guardian, 2015-03-23]
Russian authorities said only that a man named Viktor Davydov had died when a Volkswagen van fell through the ice on Lake Baikal, the world’s deepest lake. Davydov is his maternal grandmother’s name.
posted by runcifex at 2:55 AM on September 7, 2017 [1 favorite]


Have we talked about/has anyone used Verrit at all?

What's to talk about? Something to do with Clinton happens and people lose their mind on Twitter. Film at eleven.
posted by haapsane at 2:58 AM on September 7, 2017 [4 favorites]


Have we talked about/has anyone used Verrit at all?

the only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about
and as the thing not being talked about is peter daou, metafilter wins
posted by murphy slaw at 3:14 AM on September 7, 2017 [13 favorites]


From what I can see, there's nothing to say about Verritt that doesn't involve either (a.) relitigating the primaries, or (b.) speculating irresponsibly about what extravagant coke binge or mental health crisis has led Peter Daou to handle his twitter account the way he is. So maybe we should just pass on that and let this hot mess die a quiet death?
posted by a box and a stick and a string and a bear at 3:38 AM on September 7, 2017 [7 favorites]


In the past, after the election, loser bumper stickers disappear and the winners stick around.

I've considered picking up a Dean For America or a McGovern/Eagleton sticker for my car a few times. If you're going to make a statement, go all in.
posted by delfin at 3:43 AM on September 7, 2017 [6 favorites]


If we have any American Horror Story fans in the house, the new season ("Cult") has begun and it's heavily centered around the post-election psychic fallout that we've been grappling with in these threads.
posted by a box and a stick and a string and a bear at 3:48 AM on September 7, 2017 [1 favorite]


Ivanka's future involves exile. Once everything about this administration has run its course, the Trump name and brand will be worthless. Less than worthless. Ivanka won't be spared this fate. She'll live in some small & obscure nation. Holding court over a tiny number of sad & desperate loyalists: the last people in the world willing to trust the Trump family with money.

You do know that Bush Sr.'s and Bush Jr.'s staffs were chock full of Nixon's people and that there are even McCarthyites in the current admin right?

Justice ain't a thing at that level.
posted by srboisvert at 4:07 AM on September 7, 2017 [14 favorites]


I've considered picking up a Dean For America or a McGovern/Eagleton sticker for my car a few times.

Speaking of relitigation, I'm still sore about that whole Eagleton thing. I know that election was about as winnable as the Vietnam war, but FFS, when the "amnesty, abortion, and acid" candidate chose a guy with electroshock therapy and suicidal tendencies in his medical history as running mate, it was like letting Nixon run uncontested.
posted by pracowity at 4:18 AM on September 7, 2017 [2 favorites]


Kevin Drum suggests that McConnell/Ryan are okay with the three month punt

I'd be okay with the punt too if I was looking at fourth down and about mile and had been sacked on every previous down by a team that didn't even have an equal compliment of players.

Are they hoping for high draft picks next year?
posted by srboisvert at 4:42 AM on September 7, 2017 [10 favorites]


There is, to be clear, nothing wrong with any of this, besides it all being just way too on the nose.

Eh, I actually think birth tourism is kind of shitty, it's just impossible to end without making things harder for actual immigrants.
posted by corb at 4:44 AM on September 7, 2017 [5 favorites]


Related to the big ffacebook/Russia story:

Trump-Russia investigators probe Jared Kushner-run digital operation (Peter Stone & Greg Gordon, McClatchy)
Schiff said he wants the House panel to determine whether Trump aides helped Russia time its cyberattacks or target certain voters and whether there was “any exchange of information, any financial support funneled to organizations that were doing this kind of work.”

Trump son-in-law Kushner, now a senior adviser to the president and the only current White House aide known to be deemed a “person of interest” in the Justice Department investigation, appears to be under the microscope in several respects. His real estate finances and December meetings with Russia’s ambassador and the head of a sanctioned, state-controlled bank are also being examined.
posted by Room 641-A at 5:23 AM on September 7, 2017 [12 favorites]


The last couple of lines in that birth tourism article:
“When Trump was elected, he said he wanted to eliminate citizenship based on place of birth,” birth tourist Tanya Yanygina told The Daily Beast. “But he said that in reference to people from the Middle East and Mexico.”
posted by xigxag at 5:23 AM on September 7, 2017 [33 favorites]


The always biting Jeff Tiedrich


(((Jeff Tiedrich)))
(((Jeff Tiedrich))) @jefftiedrich
if you think Joe Arpaio deserves a pardon while 800,000 youngsters are banished to lands they never knew, you just might be a shitty human
3:33 PM · Sep 5, 2017
311 Retweets
782 Likes

posted by Mental Wimp at 5:40 AM on September 7, 2017 [33 favorites]


In the past, after the election, loser bumper stickers disappear and the winners stick around. I recall seeing W stickers all over the place.

Oh, absolutely not. I drove around with my Kerry/Edwards sticker for at least two years after that election. And I was not alone. It's not a new phenomenon, though I am very appreciative of those who are sporting their 2016 "losers" stickers with special tenacity.
posted by Miko at 5:44 AM on September 7, 2017 [2 favorites]




pracowity: Speaking of relitigation, I'm still sore about that whole Eagleton thing. I know that election was about as winnable as the Vietnam war, but FFS, when the "amnesty, abortion, and acid" candidate chose a guy with electroshock therapy and suicidal tendencies in his medical history as running mate, it was like letting Nixon run uncontested.

For context, recall that at the time, conservative slimetoad Robert Novak attributed the "amnesty, abortion, and acid" description of McGovern to an unnamed Democratic senator. Thirty-five years later, the 'unnamed senator' was revealed to be the very same Thomas Eagleton himself, thus forever firmly establishing the importance of candidate vetting to high-level campaigns.

And then McCain chose Palin as running mate next year, so... never mind.
posted by hangashore at 5:53 AM on September 7, 2017


I am very appreciative of those who are sporting their 2016 "losers" stickers with special tenacity

I'd been avoiding wearing my Hillary stuff out in public because I'm in NYC and I figured it would just bum everybody out, but maybe it's time...
posted by schadenfrau at 5:53 AM on September 7, 2017 [3 favorites]


I kept my Hillary magnet up at work.
posted by Mavri at 5:58 AM on September 7, 2017 [5 favorites]


Trump humiliating both Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell is like my birthday and Christmas all rolled together. I've never been so happy.
posted by triggerfinger at 5:58 AM on September 7, 2017


Will everyone take a few minutes to read this trenchant article about DJT from Ta-Nehisi Coates?

I don't have any other words, except "PREEEEACH!"
posted by droplet at 6:19 AM on September 7, 2017 [58 favorites]


Ivanka's future involves exile. Once everything about this administration has run its course, the Trump name and brand will be worthless. Less than worthless. Ivanka won't be spared this fate. She'll live in some small & obscure nation

Israel may be small but I'm not sure it's fair to call it obscure.
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 6:26 AM on September 7, 2017


I have a neighbor who put up a hand-painted wooden sign with the Hillary H and the number of votes she won the popular vote by. It's a fairly long sign. I like my neighbors.
posted by nonasuch at 6:30 AM on September 7, 2017 [31 favorites]


Hawthorne's mistranslation link above is beyond wonderful. If you skipped over it, you have missed the opportunity to make your day.
posted by Devonian at 6:37 AM on September 7, 2017 [41 favorites]


Shortly after the election results were certified, I made some hats, hoodies, shirts and other swag that said nothing but 2,868,691 in a nice font. They sold well.
posted by carmicha at 6:46 AM on September 7, 2017 [14 favorites]


At various points in these threads, we've argued about rural issues and whether they are white issues. I was reading this article about the closure of obstetric wards in rural communities, which I think illustrates the overlap, and why it's important to be complex in our thinking about rural communities. The upshot is that rural areas in general are losing maternity care and seeing an uptick in maternal deaths (naturally, especially in states that refused the Medicaid expansion) and this is more pronounced in rural communities with a larger percentage of Black residents. So it's both a pan-rural issue (in that all rural communities suffer) and an issue that is worse for Black people in rural areas. I suspect that this is probably how most rural issues work - bad for all, worse for people of color generally and Black people in specific.
posted by Frowner at 6:46 AM on September 7, 2017 [37 favorites]


@realDonaldTrump
For all of those (DACA) that are concerned about your status during the 6 month period, you have nothing to worry about - No action!

Don't worry, human beings! You won't become Unpersons for at least 6 months! What are you bitching about?

Absolute and complete absence of empathy.
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:47 AM on September 7, 2017 [60 favorites]


I am very appreciative of those who are sporting their 2016 "losers" stickers with special tenacity

My neighbor still has their Clinton/Kane lawn sign up. It was up all last winter, too ... they would go out and clean it off and replant it after every snowstorm.

It makes me smile every time I see it, honestly.
posted by anastasiav at 6:58 AM on September 7, 2017 [27 favorites]


@realDonaldTrump
For all of those (DACA) that are concerned about your status during the 6 month period, you have nothing to worry about - No action!


Didn't they shorten various renewal/application windows? Isn't this a lie that will end up hurting a lot of people?
posted by Etrigan at 7:00 AM on September 7, 2017 [15 favorites]


When Trump Aides Admit He Has No Idea What He’s Talking About
Sometimes you have to step back and marvel that the president doesn’t know anything about anything – and that he doesn’t care that he doesn’t know. Anonymous aides have been warning us for months that Trump is incurious on matters of policy and process to the point that he makes George W. Bush look like Adlai Stevenson.
...
The dearth of knowledge about how laws, the government or the criminal justice system works, and the insouciance with which he displays his ignorance, are qualities that define the 45th president. This is a man who understands one thing better than anyone: how to whip a crowd into a reactionary strew of resentment and fear. After that, as his own staff has acknowledged for months, he’s got nothin’.
posted by kirkaracha at 7:03 AM on September 7, 2017 [32 favorites]


Wait, why is the Dem leadership bailing these assholes out of a mess of their own creation? Why are they getting involved at all with something that could blow up so horribly in their faces?

Do they honestly believe that voting down a CR/debt limit hike/Harvey bill for even the most perfect of reasons (amendments that defund Planned Parenthood, end DACA today, etc etc) after they've done that would be painless? Joe Q Public isn't going to hear the part about the GOP breaking the deal first, it'll be wall to wall of "DEMS BREAK FAITH".
posted by Slackermagee at 7:03 AM on September 7, 2017


And the "Advanced Parole" process was canceled when they made the DACA announcement. That process allowed Dreamers to exit the country and return without loss of status.

So obviously the President has no idea what he's talking about.
posted by notyou at 7:12 AM on September 7, 2017 [8 favorites]


Isn't this a lie that will end up hurting a lot of people?

Applicable to virtually everything that has come out of 45's mouth, his Twitter account, or his subordinates.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 7:22 AM on September 7, 2017 [10 favorites]


He's either lying or he's ignorant of the law

Why not both?
posted by flabdablet at 7:29 AM on September 7, 2017 [16 favorites]


Like 6 months of terror about what happens next is just nothing. What a piece of shit.
posted by h00py at 7:39 AM on September 7, 2017 [4 favorites]


Yeah I recommend people read the article linked upthread. It confirms that he is deeply ignorant and incurious, and pretty much just bullshits from one thing to the next.
posted by Fleebnork at 7:40 AM on September 7, 2017 [3 favorites]


Democratic leadership is not bailing Trump out. They're giving him 180 days during which he'll be doing stuff they want him to do anyway, hurricane relief, trying to get a DACA bill, etc. before they twist his arm again. In December there will fewer republican politicians supporting Trump and he'll need democratic votes even more than he does now.

I hope that Kim Jung-Un doesn't end up with a sit down meeting with Trump because Tump will end up giving away Iowa.
posted by rdr at 7:43 AM on September 7, 2017 [24 favorites]


Slackermagee, they didn't bail the GOP out. Quite the opposite. They were planning to vote to extend the debt ceiling long enough to get past the 2018 elections so it wasn't hanging over their heads. The Dems gave them 3 months instead. Now the Dems look like they're playing fair in the interests of the country, and the GOP now has to deal with this yet again at the end of the year. Which means you'll have a bunch of them making noise about shutting down the government if they don't get what they want. This is going to hang over their heads and be a nice reminder to the country that these people cannot govern. It's also going to contaminate everything else, like their big tax "reform" push.
posted by azpenguin at 7:43 AM on September 7, 2017 [28 favorites]


Yep. Every three months Congress have to take their eye off whatever the GOP is destroying that month and focus laser like on scraping enough votes to keep the country afloat.
posted by Talez at 7:47 AM on September 7, 2017 [7 favorites]


They were planning to vote to extend the debt ceiling long enough to get past the 2018 elections so it wasn't hanging over their heads.

Reading the accounts of how McConnell/Ryan/Mnuchin started out at 18 months, then went to 12 months, then went to six while the Democrats were counteroffering with 3 every time?

It's like eating ice cream on the couch with my bra off.
posted by joyceanmachine at 7:52 AM on September 7, 2017 [96 favorites]


joyceanmachine, I keep thinking of this.

It is delicious.
posted by schadenfrau at 7:58 AM on September 7, 2017 [3 favorites]


The Washington National Cathedral is removing two stained glass windows of Confederates Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson.

Peggy Noonan -- Peggy Noonan -- had a response about this action by a Catholic Church regarding two civil war figures. Her response was this:
Peggy Noonan @Peggynoonannyc
A shonda. They were figures in the greatest, most killing moral struggle in US history. They didnt tweet, they took to the field and died.
I cannot begin to express how stabby I feel right now.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:02 AM on September 7, 2017 [28 favorites]


Shitfire this Ta-Nehisi Coates article
posted by fleacircus at 8:05 AM on September 7, 2017 [25 favorites]


Shitfire this Ta-Nehisi Coates article

If entropy could be reversed I'm sure Trump would be collecting the ashes of Bin Laden to turn back into a corpse and reanimate it just to spite Obama.
posted by Talez at 8:06 AM on September 7, 2017 [35 favorites]


Yep. Every three months Congress have to take their eye off whatever the GOP is destroying that month and focus laser like on scraping enough votes to keep the country afloat.

This means that every three months the nutball caucus of the GOP has a new opportunity to sink the country.

Until the debt ceiling is automatically raised as necessary, we can periodically be held as hostages by members of congress who threaten to ruin us all, unless their political demands are met.

Personally I think it kind of sucks that the Democrats are angling to resume the hostage stand-off in three months rather than eighteen.
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:07 AM on September 7, 2017 [1 favorite]


Until the debt ceiling is automatically raised as necessary,

Which means eliminating the debt ceiling altogether, because it was a stupid idea in the first place, meant only to make GOPers look like budget hawks serious about reducing the deficit while avoiding any actual work of figuring out how to cut the budget.
posted by Mental Wimp at 8:11 AM on September 7, 2017 [17 favorites]


serious about reducing the deficit while avoiding any actual work of figuring out how to cut the budget.

Because raising taxes (or enforcing existing tax laws better) is not an option at all for those "serious about reducing the deficit" people, of course.
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:13 AM on September 7, 2017 [4 favorites]


Stonewall Jackson, a traitor, was killed by pneumonia that set in after he was hit by a traitor's bullet, a bullet that hit him while Jackson was committing treason in support of the "moral" position that enslavement of black people was good.

Robert E. Lee died after the war.

She is wrong in every possible way. She is so wrong she has stopped making sense entirely. How could it possibly get any...

A shonda.

Fuck yoooooouuuuu.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:13 AM on September 7, 2017 [84 favorites]


A shonda.

You're an Irish-American Roman Catholic, Peggy. Quit appropriating my people's language and culture.
posted by Faint of Butt at 8:14 AM on September 7, 2017 [37 favorites]


They didnt tweet, they took to the field and died.

Just for the record, Lee died five years after surrendering Confederate forces to end the Civil War; and Jackson was killed by Confederates.
posted by Etrigan at 8:15 AM on September 7, 2017 [34 favorites]


Oh god. I went to Noonan's feed to see if maybe some context would make that tweet somewhat understandable. It only made it worse.
@Peggynoonannyc
That's what the fight, which existed from our national beginning, was about.They resolved it: all men are and must be free.They RESOLVED it
So, we should credit those who fought to keep slavery with helping to end slavery? WTF.
posted by papercrane at 8:18 AM on September 7, 2017 [52 favorites]


had a response about this action by a Catholic Church

Just for the record, the National Cathedral is an Episcopal Church. I'm reasonably sure, but not positive, that only saints are allowed on Catholic stained glass.
posted by khaibit at 8:19 AM on September 7, 2017 [11 favorites]


Noonan totally gets what's wrong with kids these days.

"#dying LOL
RIP me"
- Millennial's last words
posted by Emmy Rae at 8:19 AM on September 7, 2017


So, we should credit those who fought to keep slavery with helping to end slavery? WTF.

Well Trump tried to credit himself with ending the racist birther movement.

Like shitstain, like dumbass.
posted by Talez at 8:20 AM on September 7, 2017 [4 favorites]


Can I haz Pulitzer Prize for History Revisionism?
posted by runcifex at 8:24 AM on September 7, 2017 [3 favorites]


Can I haz Pulitzer Prize for History Revisionism?

You iz a hooman, runcifex. Plz stop appropriating kitteh's language n culture kthxbai.
posted by Faint of Butt at 8:26 AM on September 7, 2017 [24 favorites]


Joseph Gurl: like comparing different flavors of diarrhea

Uh... are we not doing 'phrasing' any more?
posted by hanov3r at 8:27 AM on September 7, 2017 [2 favorites]


Personally I think it kind of sucks that the Democrats are angling to resume the hostage stand-off in three months rather than eighteen.

I'm not a big believer in unilateral disarmament, myself.
posted by NoxAeternum at 8:27 AM on September 7, 2017 [7 favorites]


You're an Irish-American Roman Catholic, Peggy. Quit appropriating my people's language and culture.

Well, as a half-Irish half-ethnically-Jewish guy raised an Orthodox Christian, I can't go that far, but I'm sure both my ancestries would join me on cultural common ground in simply saying "fuck you, Noonan."
posted by spitbull at 8:29 AM on September 7, 2017 [20 favorites]


I'll wait to judge the quality of the hurricane funding/debt ceiling/CR deal once it gets signed, but it does warm my stone-cold heart to see these types of articles on the front page of WaPo.

Some conservatives blame Ryan, McConnell for Trump’s deal with Democrats
There is no sign that Trump’s Wednesday concession marks a broader legislative pivot. But the legislative reality for the GOP’s hard right is brutal: Every Democratic entreaty the president accepts erodes the conservative bloc’s power, which is rooted in its ability to push Republican-only initiatives — like this year’s health-care effort and the coming tax overhaul effort — further to the right.

For a broader group of conservatives, Trump’s decision to side with Pelosi and Schumer over Republican leaders came simply as a shock that forced them to come to terms with the man in whom they had invested their political fortunes.
Deals that frustrates and alienates the Freedom Caucus, and prevents them from pushing the entire agenda to the right are good, I think.
posted by Hermeowne Grangepurr at 8:29 AM on September 7, 2017 [14 favorites]


She's not wrong that some leaders of the South attempted reconciliation after the war, but Stonewall Jackson sure the fuck wasn't one of them.
posted by corb at 8:30 AM on September 7, 2017 [5 favorites]


National Embarrassment Peggy Noonan.
posted by Lyme Drop at 8:31 AM on September 7, 2017 [14 favorites]


I'm not a big believer in unilateral disarmament, myself.

That's not how hostage standoffs work. The hostages (us) aren't armed to begin with.
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:34 AM on September 7, 2017


The leaders of the South largely attempted reconciliation, imperfectly

I really don't think that's true.
posted by kirkaracha at 8:35 AM on September 7, 2017 [12 favorites]


<Seinfeld voice>Noonan</Seinfeld voice>
posted by phearlez at 8:37 AM on September 7, 2017 [32 favorites]


It's interesting to see him, er, adopt this new explanation; the questioning will be interesting -- do we yet know if that will be released?

Yeah that's his prepared statement, his best foot forward. He's basically admitting to wrongdoing upfront and still lying about it (claiming "I love it" really meant "Thanks"). I'm pretty sure that just accepting any information would be an FEC violation, regardless of how that information would have been used or not, so he really should have been consulting his lawyers before he took that meeting. I would love to be in the room when he gets questioned.

I doubt any transcript will be released, but have to expect (another) leak to the press at the very least this evening.
posted by TwoWordReview at 8:40 AM on September 7, 2017 [4 favorites]


But intentionally misspeaking to Congress is a crime, giving his statement on Thursday added weight

Soooo, about his previous, different statement that he gave last time he spoke with them...?
posted by Room 641-A at 8:40 AM on September 7, 2017 [2 favorites]


"There was no meeting"
"The meeting was about Russian adoptions"
"We didn't discuss the election"
"We discussed the election but they didn't offer information"
"They offered information, but it was bad"
"I had a duty to America to check out the information"
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:41 AM on September 7, 2017 [122 favorites]


As someone whose entire family tree is rooted in the Pale of Settlement, I believe that there is definitely a Yiddish curse suited to this occasion, to wit:

I hope a child is named after Peggy Noonan.
posted by nonasuch at 8:43 AM on September 7, 2017 [18 favorites]


Trump Jr. Says He Wanted Russian Dirt to Determine Clinton’s ‘Fitness’ for Office

"Sure, she's a two-time Senator from one of the largest states in the Union. Sure, she was Secretary of State. Sure, tens of millions of people have already voted for her. But I, the son of a guy who likes to put his name on things, am actually the best judge of whether she's fit for office." This'll be the Day One lesson in every course on White Male Privilege forever.
posted by Etrigan at 8:44 AM on September 7, 2017 [136 favorites]


Etrigan that [fake] quote is so good I want to steal it. omg.
posted by allthinky at 8:46 AM on September 7, 2017 [5 favorites]


As an Episcopalian who's worshiped in the Cathedral many times, I think Peggy Noonan should keep her fucking nose out of what we do with our churches.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 8:47 AM on September 7, 2017 [16 favorites]


As just some dude on the internet, I think Peggy Noonan is a dipshit
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:52 AM on September 7, 2017 [36 favorites]


To be fair, she's been in the dipshit business for longer than most. You'd expect her to be pretty good at it by now.
posted by flabdablet at 8:56 AM on September 7, 2017 [5 favorites]


"The leaders of the South largely attempted reconciliation, imperfectly"

*very* imperfectly
posted by mazola at 8:56 AM on September 7, 2017 [5 favorites]


@soledadobrien: 1. They were traitors. 2. Lee died at home in bed. 3. They were not the heroes of the ''moral struggle'. 4. Learn to thread your tweets.

Peggy attempted to explain herself this morning, and not only has she not figured out how to thread tweets (search for "Good morning!" for the start), it's even more incoherent than her original shonda-storm.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:01 AM on September 7, 2017 [15 favorites]


Democratic leadership is not bailing Trump out. They're giving him 180 days during which he'll be doing stuff they want him to do anyway, hurricane relief, trying to get a DACA bill, etc. before they twist his arm again. In December there will fewer republican politicians supporting Trump and he'll need democratic votes even more than he does now.

Bear in mind that Republicans, who are not looking forward to the 2018 elections anyway, wanted to kick the debt ceiling can down the road past the elections now, when voters are paying less attention. As it is, they'll now have to take the painful vote to raise the debt ceiling and fund the government at the end of they year, just in time for primary opponents to make hay about it.

(Which wouldn't be a problem if the Republicans themselves hadn't blown the process up with a slew of bad-faith arguments, but hey.)
posted by Gelatin at 9:02 AM on September 7, 2017 [7 favorites]


She's not wrong that some leaders of the South attempted reconciliation after the war

Even if she had said this (and as others noted, she didn't), we still shouldn't be honoring them, and certainly not white supremacist slaveholders like Lee. Really, by now every single argument for keeping monuments to Confederates as anything but scrap metal has been completely and utterly destroyed, unmasked as ever-more-idiotic excuses for allowing white supremacist violence to be given highly-honored status in this country. It's high time Noonan and her ilk should be swept into the dustbins of history along with them.
posted by zombieflanders at 9:05 AM on September 7, 2017 [15 favorites]


This is me praising that shameless shill and political apologist hack Peggy Noonan, imperfectly.
posted by cmfletcher at 9:07 AM on September 7, 2017 [21 favorites]


I just finished reading the Ta-Nehisi Coates piece and can't resist pull-quoting these bits:
“Identity politics … is largely expressive, not persuasive,” Lilla claims. “Which is why it never wins elections—but can lose them.” That Trump ran and won on identity politics is beyond Lilla’s powers of conception. What appeals to the white working class is ennobled. What appeals to black workers, and all others outside the tribe, is dastardly identitarianism."
...
"In a recent New Yorker article, a former Russian military officer pointed out that interference in an election could succeed only where “necessary conditions” and an “existing background” were present. In America, that “existing background” was a persistent racism, and the “necessary condition” was a black president. The two related factors hobbled America’s ability to safeguard its electoral system. As late as July 2016, a majority of Republican voters doubted that Barack Obama had been born in the United States, which is to say they did not view him as a legitimate president. Republican politicians acted accordingly, infamously denying his final Supreme Court nominee a hearing and then, fatefully, refusing to work with the administration to defend the country against the Russian attack. Before the election, Obama found no takers among Republicans for a bipartisan response, and Obama himself, underestimating Trump and thus underestimating the power of whiteness, believed the Republican nominee too objectionable to actually win. In this Obama was, tragically, wrong."
If civilization and scholarship survive, I think this is exactly how history will record what has happened to us. Putin, on the look-out for separatist movements and ethnic conflicts he could exploit, found an easy one in the United States: the remains of the Confederacy, which never really went away. In the end it took very little force on the wedge to split that crack in our foundations wide open.
posted by OnceUponATime at 9:08 AM on September 7, 2017 [92 favorites]


Right. The GOP choices are now "blow up the world that they themselves live in and have everyone rightly blame them for it in an election year" or "don't blow up the world and watch their base throw a tantrum in an election year."

Not blowing up the world? A wound.
Blowing up the world? Certain death.

Nancy doesn't fuck around.
posted by schadenfrau at 9:08 AM on September 7, 2017 [22 favorites]


Peggy Noonan @Peggynoonannyc
A shonda. They were figures in the greatest, most killing moral struggle in US history.


Yeah, they "were figures" -- on the treason-in-defense-of-slavery side. Noonan's careful choice of the word "figures" gives away that she knows there's nothing actually worth celebrating about them other than the Republican Party's embrace of racism.
posted by Gelatin at 9:08 AM on September 7, 2017 [4 favorites]


I am... alarmed that a speech writer of Noonan's ability (and she has written some great speeches) keeps using the phrase "most killing war". I mean, I get that you're in 140 character space, Peggy, but you're already trying to long-form it with threaded tweets so MAYBE try using a phrase that's closer to grammatically correct?
posted by hanov3r at 9:10 AM on September 7, 2017 [6 favorites]


This is the most sensible summary of the McRyan/Schulosi/Trump deal that I've read so far.

What Really Happened at the White House Yesterday
It’s true that Ryan and McConnell did not want a three-month deal. They really did get screwed on that aspect of the deal. If they had their way, the deal would have done away with the debt ceiling forever because it will be a constant threat to their continued careers as leaders of their party. But what they got out of the meeting was the Democratic votes they will need for the debt ceiling and the continuing resolution, and a story line that they were cut off at the knees by the president who sold them out. It’s exactly what they needed.

Schumer and Pelosi look like genius negotiators. And, it’s true, they did very well. But they actually got no more than they were due. In return for their support, they made no concessions and got pretty much nothing else in return. Their one bonus was the short 90-day duration of the deal, because that will allow them to torment the Republicans all over again in December. But they also did the Republicans a big favor by getting them out of a huge jam and giving them back a bunch of legislative days that they can now use to create mischief. In any case, they had needs when they want into the meeting, and those needs were met.

Trump had to pivot to the Democrats at this point not because he’s some brilliant strategist but because, as I have been explaining over and over again, the plan Ryan and McConnell sold him did not work. And he ran out of time and had no other choice remaining to him but to go to the Democrats and beg them for help on the debt ceiling and avoiding a government shutdown. [...] In any case, Trump went into this meeting needing the Democrats’ support and with the Republican leaders needing some cover for the deal they were all about to agree to. He got the support and provided the cover. [...]

If you watched Lawrence O’Donnell last night, however, you would have a completely different impression of what happened yesterday. In his version, the only significant thing that happened is that Trump took the first shitty deal that Schumer offered and knifed Ryan and McConnell without much caring or even necessarily knowing what he was doing. Trump’s a terrible negotiator and some kind of simpleton. McConnell and Ryan got nothing and were completely blindsided. And Schumer is a conquering hero who somehow fleeced them all.

I’m sorry, but that is a ridiculously distorted view of what occurred in the White House yesterday. What really happened is that they all went into the meeting with some very pressing and almost desperate needs and they came out of the meeting with those needs almost perfectly met.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:18 AM on September 7, 2017 [32 favorites]


Even if she had said this (and as others noted, she didn't), we still shouldn't be honoring them, and certainly not white supremacist slaveholders like Lee.

I wouldn't go quite that far. Lee's legacy is properly honored by having his family's property confiscated as a cemetery where people who fought for the United Stated are buried.
posted by Gelatin at 9:27 AM on September 7, 2017 [21 favorites]


Man is it just impossible for pundits to ever let the Democrats have a win at something? Must any victory be met with "Oh yes, they THOUGHT they won, but actually, they were doing what the Republicans always wanted, poor saps." The implication being somehow that Pelosi and Schumer could have REALLY put the screws to 45 if they'd been smarties like the Monday-morning quarterback writing the column. But haha, no, they're Democrats!

In other news, I would like to drive all the pundits into the sea.
posted by emjaybee at 9:28 AM on September 7, 2017 [64 favorites]


I'm pretty sure the reason confederates didn't tweet is because they were using rotary phones attached to walls just as constitution demands. Plus they were all on Friendster.
posted by srboisvert at 9:30 AM on September 7, 2017 [2 favorites]


I am suspicious of both liberal (O'Donnell) and conservative (the Examiner) narratives of the White House deal. Each is biased and self-serving.
posted by xyzzy at 9:30 AM on September 7, 2017 [1 favorite]


I feel like Peggy Noonan is the type of person who would be offended, like, literally offended, if I wore flip flops in her presence. Even on a beach.
posted by Room 641-A at 9:30 AM on September 7, 2017 [9 favorites]


New Details Emerge About Russians Who Met With Donald Trump Jr. (NPR, Sept. 6, 2017) -- A foundation aimed at repealing a set of sanctions known as the Magnitsky Act has strong links to many of the Russians who attended the June 2016 meeting with Donald Trump Jr. and others.
JACKIE NORTHAM, BYLINE: Just off one of the main thoroughfares here in downtown Wilmington, Del., is a two-story red brick building on a narrow, tree-lined street. This is where the Human Rights Accountability Global Initiative Foundation is registered. The foundation was established in February 2016, and all those associated with it have deep ties to Russia. Their stated aim - to overturn a ban on the adoption of Russian children by American families. Seva Gunitsky, a Russian specialist at the University of Toronto, isn't buying it.

SEVA GUNITSKY: Whenever anybody on the Russian side says adoption ban, that's really code for the Magnitsky Act.
...
LOUISE SHELLEY: The people who met Donald Trump Jr. are people who are close to the Russian power structures.

NORTHAM: Louise Shelley is an expert in Russian organized crime and corruption at George Mason University. She says none of the Russians at the June 2016 meeting with Trump Jr. are actually employed by the Kremlin, but they all have connections to upper echelons of power there and are carrying out Putin's wishes.

SHELLEY: Either they're part of the legal apparatus that helps him, the political apparatus that helps him or are engaged in negative public relations campaigns which are also a very important technique of the Kremlin to go after its enemies.

NORTHAM: Shelley says the Kremlin still believes ending the Magnitsky sanctions is a priority, and advocates such as Katsyv, Veselnitskaya and Akhmetshin are integral to that. None are registered as a foreign agent, but that hasn't stopped them from pushing to overturn the act.
Remember, Trump was a failing real estate developer until he started laundering dirty Russian money.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:30 AM on September 7, 2017 [26 favorites]


I would elaborate but I have a baby in the crook of one arm who refuses to sleep anywhere else. So I will simply say: Longman is full of shit.
posted by phearlez at 9:31 AM on September 7, 2017 [6 favorites]


Some conservatives blame Ryan, McConnell for Trump’s deal with Democrats

Re: this story, this paragraph
In pockets of the conservative media, knives came out for Ryan, not the president. Trump, Fox Business host Lou Dobbs pronounced Wednesday,” not only took RINO Ryan to the woodshed, but eliminated any need for any Republican to ever pretend again that Ryan is a real Republican in any way.”
is notable because in the Trumpophile corners of the internet this is exactly their take. Ryan and McConnell are worse than Pelosi and Schumer because ... well, because Ryan and McConnell aren't sufficiently loyal to their lord and master. Despite trying to do what Trump was presumably elected to do in the face of Trump's own opposition, Ryan and McConnell are the bad guys here. Now does any of that actually mean anything? (Besides being another demonstration that Trump's fans are all utter morons.) Dunno, very little probs. But I'll take any opportunity to watch Ryan and McConnell eat shit.
posted by octobersurprise at 9:31 AM on September 7, 2017 [6 favorites]


My big worry about the deal is that it frees up September in the Senate for another push at ACA repeal -- since, as we discussed in the last thread, the way the reconciliation process is structured means it would be very helpful to the GOP agenda to get it passed before the end of the fiscal year on Sept. 30.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:31 AM on September 7, 2017 [2 favorites]


A shonda. They were figures in the greatest, most killing moral struggle in US history.

So you want your church to have stained-glass windows of Pilate and Nero?
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:35 AM on September 7, 2017 [8 favorites]


I hope that Kim Jung-Un doesn't end up with a sit down meeting with Trump because Tump will end up giving away Iowa.

You say that like it's a bad thing, but it's one way we can get rid of Steve King.
posted by jackbishop at 9:35 AM on September 7, 2017 [20 favorites]


> Man is it just impossible for pundits to ever let the Democrats have a win at something?

I don't know why this has elicited such an angry response. The quoted text acknowledges that Democrats got a 3-month extension instead of the much longer one McRyan wanted. But the idea that somehow the Democrats ROLLED Trump and the GOP has no basis in fact. Everyone came into the meeting needing things, and all parties got some things, but no party got everything they wanted.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:35 AM on September 7, 2017 [3 favorites]


Hunters Sour On Trump's Interior Secretary Over Public Lands Review (NPR, Sept. 6, 2017)
Hunters, fishermen and other sportsmen had high expectations when Ryan Zinke was tapped to be President Trump's interior secretary, in part because of his promise to bring a balanced, Teddy Roosevelt-style vision to managing public lands.

But the former Republican congressman from Montana is now the target of a critical ad campaign by one of those groups, a symptom of eroding support among a deep-pocketed faction that has become increasingly influential.

Zinke "definitely likes to espouse the ideals of Teddy Roosevelt," says John Sullivan, chairman of the Montana chapter of Backcountry Hunters and Anglers, who is featured in the ad [YT]. "He's not living up to them now."

In particular, the sportsmen are upset by Zinke's handling of a controversial review of protected national monuments and the scope of restrictions on how they are used. The review covers 27 protected monuments that are larger than 100,000 acres.

The secretary is not expected to recommend the elimination of any of the monuments. But a handful are slated to be shrunk in size, and the sportsmen say that reducing their boundaries means potentially more land for development and less for hunters.
Nelson: Ha-ha.

Oh, he's still pushing to shrink monuments? Aw, fook. At least they're facing legal battles, so it's not a quick change.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:38 AM on September 7, 2017 [17 favorites]


OnceUponATime, thank you for the blockquote.

Just for reference, this is the New Yorker article that Coates quoted re: the "former Russian officer" speaking about the pre-existing necessary conditions for election interference: Trump, Putin, and the New Cold War.
Even with the rise of new technologies, the underlying truth about such operations hasn’t changed. They are less a way to conjure up something out of nothing than to stir a pot that is already bubbling. In the U.S., a strategy like the alleged hacking of the Democrats was merely an effort to deepen an existing state of disarray and distrust. “For something to happen, many factors have to come together at once,” said Alexander Sharavin, the head of a military research institute and a member of the Academy of Military Sciences, in Moscow, where Gerasimov often speaks. “If you go to Great Britain, for example, and tell them the Queen is bad, nothing will happen, there will be no revolution, because the necessary conditions are absent—there is no existing background for this operation.” But, Sharavin said, “in America those preconditions existed.”
posted by runcifex at 9:38 AM on September 7, 2017 [2 favorites]


What really happened is that they all went into the meeting with some very pressing and almost desperate needs and they came out of the meeting with those needs almost perfectly met.

I'm not in disagreement with this, in terms of concrete outcomes. However, I think it's a mistake to ignore the outcomes in terms of perception of what happened, which is important - if this deal deepens divides in the R side, and causes more infighting, that is an important takeaway right now.

As far as the actual deal meeting everyone's needs, albeit not perfectly - isn't that how politics is supposed to work?
posted by nubs at 9:39 AM on September 7, 2017 [9 favorites]


The secretary is not expected to recommend the elimination of any of the monuments. But a handful are slated to be shrunk in size, and the sportsmen say that reducing their boundaries means potentially more land for development and less for hunters.

Scorpion, snake, leopard, and so on.
posted by Gelatin at 9:40 AM on September 7, 2017 [2 favorites]


Remember, Trump was a failing real estate developer until he started laundering dirty Russian money.

I do suspect it's a matter of when, rather than if, that the Trump org. goes belly up. Particularly if the (alleged but probable) line of Russian credit is cut off, either at source or due to scrutiny from the investigations.

Not only would the liquidators have access to the books, but it's also possible that all the infamous NDAs he requires employees to sign would become void (depending on what entity the Trump signing party is). Guessing there's a lot of said employees have reveal-all-book-length tales to tell.
posted by Buntix at 9:40 AM on September 7, 2017 [5 favorites]


I don't know why this has elicited such an angry response.

Because every time the Dems block anything (see also, Trumpcare) some truth teller comes out to explain how this is actually good for the Republicans anyway and it's just exhausting and depressing and puts wind in the sails of all the hopeless feelings we already have.

Maybe it's true and yet again, Paul Ryan wins when he loses. But I want 24 hours with the feeling that he got it stuck to him and his turtle friend.

It's probably a good article, but I am not ready to read it.
posted by Emmy Rae at 9:42 AM on September 7, 2017 [16 favorites]


I just finished reading the Ta-Nehisi Coates piece and....

...and I had to sit at my desk hating people for a while.
posted by wenestvedt at 9:43 AM on September 7, 2017 [19 favorites]


Let's see what happens in September. If ACA gets repealed or some cockamamie tax scheme gets rolled through Congress with the suddenly free legislative calendar, then maybe the Democrats fucked up. If a big nothing turd pops out and we head into the next fiscal year with no budget and a more fractured GOP caucus, then Democrats should take a big pat on the back.
posted by Glibpaxman at 9:44 AM on September 7, 2017 [1 favorite]


Let Ryan and McConnell try to take another whack at the ACA this month. Those talking points about how people can just save for their health care costs--and besides good people take Care of themselves and don't get sick--are going to go over *real* well after four million people in Texas were financially ruined by a natural disaster that had them steeping in filthy, chemical-laden water.

Go ahead, I want to hear those personal responsibility arguments now. I triple-dog dare you.
posted by Sublimity at 9:46 AM on September 7, 2017 [18 favorites]


Andrea Grimes twitter thread:

"Here's a terrible, shitty story about white migration to the United States. About my own family. . . . I am the descendant of a rapist. A committer of white-on-white crime. An entire asshole whose whiteness forged my family's success. . . . I don't feel personally guilty for the behavior of people 200 years ago; I feel responsibility to remedy the effects of oppression TODAY. . . . I have done and said some really horrible, White Feminist shit about race, when I was WAY old enough to know better. . . . The ONLY thing that got me closer to right on this shit is following POC on twitter, listening, and trying to work on myself and my views. . . . "

Also, related to (way upthread) white supremacists trying to mine medieval history for validation, here's David M. Perry in Pacific Standard, "What To Do When Nazis Are Obsessed With Your Field":
[They] keep scouring texts for secret racism anywhere that the creator doesn't explicitly reject it. . . . As I confronted the castle photos on Stormfront, though, and similar threads about other artifacts of the medieval past, I thought about all the lectures and classes I've given about these objects in which I unspooled their glory, never thinking about the ways in which white supremacists might well seize on my narratives. When I've done presentations of medieval castles, kvelling over their crenellations and sophisticated designs to students, I had never paused to consider what subtext a white supremacist might have chosen to extract from my teaching. As a field, we've got to be ready for the white supremacist in our classroom—think Peter Cvjetanovic—but we teach so that the rest of the class can recognize and refute racist claims about history.

The western Middle Ages is going to remain attractive to white supremacists. Our solutions to this problem include explicitly signaling our rejection of racism and working harder to diversify the field, but also dethroning the very notion of the Middle Ages—mostly Christian, mostly located in western Europe, isolated from other peoples—itself. How we each choose to act will vary by employment status, risk of violence, and other factors. Not everyone has a platform. Not everyone controls their syllabus. But everyone needs to accept that, like Taylor Swift, the Middle Ages has a problem with Nazis who love us.
posted by cybercoitus interruptus at 9:46 AM on September 7, 2017 [33 favorites]


I do suspect it's a matter of when, rather than if, that the Trump org. goes belly up. Particularly if the (alleged but probable) line of Russian credit is cut off, either at source or due to scrutiny from the investigations.

Given that what Trump Jr. didn't say in his prepared statement (but NPR did yesterday, in an act of actual journalism) is that Putin and his cronies need the Magnitsky Act repealed in order to free up ill-gotten oligarch assets, so it'd be sweet if Trump's collapse also meant Russian money-launderers also got burned financially.
posted by Gelatin at 9:46 AM on September 7, 2017 [8 favorites]


If I can't get an impeachment, I would be slightly mollified by Trump Org getting hacked off at the knees by Russia/Deutsche Bank due to his inability to return on Russia's investment in his campaign. In other news, I've put my statue of Buddha in a closet. I've lost all of my ability to feel compassion for my enemies.
posted by xyzzy at 9:46 AM on September 7, 2017 [16 favorites]


Let Ryan and McConnell try to take another whack at the ACA this month.
This is not a fucking game. This is our fucking lives. We're hanging on to the ACA by our fingertips, and it is very, very likely that one of these days they're going to succeed in getting rid of it. Could people stop talking about it as if this is about scoring political points?
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 9:49 AM on September 7, 2017 [20 favorites]


I don't know why this has elicited such an angry response.

Because it commits a major sin in it's basic premise: it talks about the Republicans as a single group when discussing the topic of the debt ceiling. Every indication is that's not remotely true. There are members of the Republican caucus who would like to never expand the debt ceiling (Never mind the consequences), who would like to only expanded it if there's major cuts, and so on. To say they got a win at this is to completely ignore all of those differences. It completely ignores the nature of the last major battle they had over this within their own group.
posted by phearlez at 9:49 AM on September 7, 2017 [5 favorites]


> I'm not in disagreement with this, in terms of concrete outcomes. However, I think it's a mistake to ignore the outcomes in terms of perception of what happened, which is important - if this deal deepens divides in the R side, and causes more infighting, that is an important takeaway right now.

Longman's point is that the divides were already as deep as they can possibly get. To the extent that the media coverage of the Democrats makes Ryan and McConnell look overmatched and feckless, I think that's a good thing in and of itself. But talking about the direct outcomes of the deal in glowing terms as O'Donnell did is inventing a narrative that's not actually there.

Maybe it's a mistake not to mention the possible effects of weakening McConnell and Ryan, and the fact that the press can actually run headlines talking about the Democratic leadership in positive terms is certainly encouraging to me personally, but the gains that accrue from changing narrative can be erased very quickly if the press changes their mind / sees another shiny object, so I would much rather focus on the direct results of the negotiations, not things that can only be converted into material gains later if the press decides to go with their tried and true "Democrats in disarray" narratives.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:49 AM on September 7, 2017 [1 favorite]


> Because it commits a major sin in it's basic premise: it talks about the Republicans as a single group when discussing the topic of the debt ceiling.

This just isn't true. The possibility of McConnell and Ryan losing their jobs because of the teahadists is mentioned, as is the fact that they wanted cover for the temporary extension. The fact that the Freedom Caucus isn't called out by name means you actually have to read the full piece carefully to understand this, but it's definitely there.

But at this point I should de-threadsit to avoid a further derail. Reasonable people can disagree on this stuff, I was just linking to the analysis that made the most sense to me.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:56 AM on September 7, 2017 [1 favorite]


Longman's point is that the divides were already as deep as they can possibly get.

2016-2017 should have already disabused everyone of the notion of "rock bottom."
posted by scaryblackdeath at 9:57 AM on September 7, 2017 [17 favorites]


Journalists grabbed a damn boat and huffed it to go check on the toxic waste, which is more than the government did, yet the EPA is calling them lazy?

I'm way behind and responding to something from four years days ago, but for the sake of fairness, I think it's important, when talking about government agencies these days, to make a distinction between what the agency as a whole has to say vs. what some Trump crony who technically "works" there has to say. I doubt most of the civil servants working at the EPA appreciate one of their new boss's henchmen making ridiculous accusations while claiming to speak for them.
posted by shponglespore at 9:57 AM on September 7, 2017 [10 favorites]


I remember back around December/January when there was all the pearl-clutching and crying about "San Francisco Nancy" and how her librul patchouli stench would ROO-IN, just ROO-IN the Democratic "brand." Now who is having the last laugh?

The lesson should be, "Do not try to cater to the mythical swing voter or Reagan Democrat, who no longer exist. Dare to be liberal." I do not know if it's a kind of party-wide C-PTSD as a result of the Nixon through Reagan years, or because donors are breathing down their necks, or obliviousness, or what, but I worry that the Democratic party (as a whole) hasn't learned that lesson.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 9:58 AM on September 7, 2017 [16 favorites]


McCain already said he'd vote for Graham-Cassidy. That's repealing all of Obamacare, capping and block granting Medicaid at a rate that will eventually mean the end of Medicaid as we know it.

Anyone that wants to see another healthcare vote this month is insane.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:00 AM on September 7, 2017 [25 favorites]


Civil Rights Division Nominee Eric Dreiband Appears Before Senate Panel (NPR, Sept. 6, 2017) -- More than 70 civil rights groups are objecting to President Trump's nomination of Eric Dreiband to serve as assistant attorney general for the Civil Rights Division. On Wednesday, Dreiband got a hearing before the Senate Judiciary Committee.

Kevin Daley wrote a summary of Dreiband's conflicting history for the Daily Caller (Sept. 6, 2017), calling out both his more recent time pushing against civil rights, and his former period with the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC),
According to publicly available figures compiled by the agency, EEOC filed an average of 418 suits during the two years Dreiband served as general counsel. During the Obama years, the agency averaged just 205 suits, less than half Dreiband’s yearly average.
Of course, there's no note on who was supported (and targeted) by those lawsuits, and how they fared in court.

Still, it sounds like he handled the questions better than the the two controversial appeals court nominees, Amy Coney Barrett and Joan Larsen, both former clerks of late Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia (NPR, Sept. 7, 2017 - audio only at the moment, transcript up later). The conservative Washington Examiner has some coverage, but Ryan Lovelace left out the fact that Republican John Kennedy posed many of the questions, and also pissed off at the non-answers when they wouldn't comment on what decisions they disagreed with. But Sheldon Whitehouse had the best point:
It cannot be that the law is so clear that you put the information in like a robot and come out with an answer. If that were true, all court decisions would be unanimous. Indeed if that were true, why would there be any need for courts at all.
To dig into who's been approved for which positions, you can refer to this Wikipedia list of federal judges appointed by DJT.
posted by filthy light thief at 10:05 AM on September 7, 2017 [7 favorites]


This just isn't true. The possibility of McConnell and Ryan losing their jobs because of the teahadists is mentioned, as is the fact that they wanted cover for the temporary extension. The fact that the Freedom Caucus isn't called out by name means you actually have to read the full piece carefully to understand this, but it's definitely there.

Nobody is disputing that the article was trying to have it all ways by making concessions and then refusing to accept the weight of those concessions. But it still full of shit. You can see proof of that right in the early graphs.

First, the president was sold on a dual-reconciliation strategy by Mitch McConnell and Paul Ryan [...] Using this trick, both could be passed without fear of a Senate filibuster and therefore, supposedly, without having to make any concessions to the Democrats.

This strategy did not work. It never really had a chance of working. I said from the beginning that it was doomed and I was right.


If this fucker was too lazy to stay up until one in the morning to watch this bullet barely skate by our ear when McCain didn't give them the one vote they needed, or hasn't seen this week's noises from McCain that maybe he'll vote for the new nonsense, then he should just stop typing.

The consequences of Trump adopting this plan have been catastrophic. He hasn’t signed a single significant piece of legislation. He hasn’t been able to keep most of his key promises.

This makes no sense when his key promises included not touching Medi* which the legislation then and now does. Further, it was never possible for him to pass anything in any other way given that this only needed 50 votes and other things needed 60. So as far as I'm concerned this guy's credibility is shit before we're even in paragraph five.
posted by phearlez at 10:06 AM on September 7, 2017 [4 favorites]


The Obama DOJ's work on Title IX was one of the most enlightened bits of public policy in the U.S. since the early 70s, IMHO. The operation was slow, but the work on the language and process was so heartening.

That De Vos, with her 0 years of experience and 0 amount of study on this issue gets a shot at dismantling it is one just really awful element of this whole rotten administration.
posted by allthinky at 10:12 AM on September 7, 2017 [66 favorites]


Longman's point is that the divides were already as deep as they can possibly get.

As long as they keep voting in lockstep, I would question how deep those divides are. As with so many things on the R side, it's a bunch of noise and fury until it comes to actual action and then everyone pretty much appears to line up as required, all noise of "concerns", "grave doubts", and "serious questions" aside.

We need to see what happens now, I guess. As much as I hate the sports metaphor as applied to politics, its rarely a good idea to try to judge the winner of a trade immediately; you need to see how it plays out.
posted by nubs at 10:13 AM on September 7, 2017 [4 favorites]


And a final thought from my slow-working brain: I guess maybe I shouldn't be using the word "divide" as much as I should be saying "split" or "fracture".
posted by nubs at 10:16 AM on September 7, 2017


'The leaders of the South...attempted reconciliation'

Shit, even many leaders of the North (notably Andrew Johnson) didn't care a whit about dismantling the Southern institutions that existed under slavery: White Rage: The Unspoken Truth of Our Racial Divide
posted by Rykey at 10:26 AM on September 7, 2017 [5 favorites]


Remember before the election when Speaker Ryan said he would never defend Trump again? Maybe he should have stuck with that instead of defending his absurd and destructive behavior each day! His only reward is zero major legislation passed, a chaotic Executive Branch and a President who is now willing to work with the Democrats to undermine Ryan's priorities. President Trump has sucked out Speaker Ryan's dignity, as if drinking his milkshake. 😪
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:31 AM on September 7, 2017 [3 favorites]


Technically it was less a milkshake and more of a Slim-Fast Ready Meal In A Can, but still.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:32 AM on September 7, 2017 [4 favorites]


Or as I have heard it called, Slime-Fast.
posted by bearwife at 10:33 AM on September 7, 2017 [8 favorites]


"The meeting was about Russian adoptions"

This is an important and still developing story about why "adoptions" are the tip of the iceberg of a much larger story of Kremlin-connected corruption and gangsterism. "Whenever anybody on the Russian side says adoption ban, that's really code for the Magnitsky Act..."
posted by Miko at 10:36 AM on September 7, 2017 [18 favorites]


"The leaders of the South largely attempted reconciliation, imperfectly"

I'm just honored to have witnessed the world record of "imperfectly"s.
posted by chris24 at 10:39 AM on September 7, 2017 [21 favorites]


If your unconscious concept of citizenship is between "white moderates" and "white conservatives", then "reconciliation" is not a bad summary of what happened after Reconstruction.
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:50 AM on September 7, 2017 [10 favorites]




> WHAT.

Big caveat in there about this being a "gentleman's agreement", and one of the parties to that agreement being Trump.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:54 AM on September 7, 2017 [29 favorites]


That is an interesting trade-off. No more debt ceiling deals splitting the GOP, but also no more brinksmanship they can use to extort something in return for not ruining the economy.

Also, you get one massive intraparty fight for the Republicans that could make for a very entertaining primary season.

nth-dimensional chess interpretation: Schumer doesn't think this will actually pass the House, but is banking on the Freedom Caucus going full scorched-earth on their own party to kill it.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 10:55 AM on September 7, 2017 [18 favorites]


...but yeah, the fact that it's even talked about as being in consideration for being put on the table in future negotiations is great. The sooner we can kill the debt ceiling, the better. Plus we could heat most of the US through the winter with the white hot rage of the Freedumb Caucus.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:55 AM on September 7, 2017 [17 favorites]


Longman's point is that the divides were already as deep as they can possibly get.

As long as they keep voting in lockstep, I would question how deep those divides are.


Exactly. Until such time as the less crackpot wing of the party is willing to turn their back on the Dave Brats of the House, even if that means enlisting democrats to get shit done, the divide is not as deep as it can get. This is a divide that amounts up to (and I use this metaphor to just torture nubs) the team unable to decide where to get pizza after the game but still willing to play as a team on the field to beat their opponents. Until such time as they say I will not play with that person they're not really divided. They're just annoyed.

And, again, that's the problem with the Longman piece. It talks about Ryan and McConnell needing cover from those nutters and getting it, so they supposedly got what they wanted. Calling that part of a win is flawed because it's not a win, it's just the cost of doing business in the current system rather than actually addressing the teahadist issue. To call it a win implies there was ever a possibility of a loss in that regard, meaning they turn their back on those people. They have eschewed a thousand other opportunities to do so, so giving it any real weight now is silly. They never were going to do it. So Longman gets it right - the only thing ever up for negotiation was the distance the can gets kicked down the road - and somehow manages to say that having it be the least desired distance by McConnell and Ryan doesn't represent a full win.

They got the most they could possibly get out of this meeting. It's not a real win because they didn't get a pony is dumb. And that doesn't even address the fact that saying McConnell and Ryan manage thusly to avoid getting Boehnered isn't remotely the same as a Republican win. A notable portion of the Republican caucus and voters are pissed off about this because they got zero concessions and it represents doing something many of them don't like and sets them up for another pissing match in 90 days. The Dem caucus, on the other hand, had to grant zero concessions, got everything they wanted, and sets their opponents up for another mess later. And on top of all that, it's not really a sure thing that this doesn't get Ryan punched in the nose.

I will concede that there may be one group that got a win here beyond the Dems - the teahadists get to say they were undercut by Trump and didn't get a chance to do this hugely self and country-destructive thing. So, you know, they got a win they didn't ask for in the sense that they don't get to burn it all down like they'd like. But since that means all the rest of us get a win too I don't see why we should put that on the board. The hitter blasted that homer over the wall so the mediocre left fielder didn't face the possibility of dropping it. Why am I so into tweaking nubs right now? No idea. Sorry nubs.

Why yes, the baby did finally let me put him down, how did you know?
posted by phearlez at 10:56 AM on September 7, 2017 [20 favorites]


Good find, Miko! That explains that whole adoption thing.
posted by JHarris at 11:02 AM on September 7, 2017 [2 favorites]


Yeah, I continue to feel completely blown away at what a big deal that "adoption" thing is, and how it reveals this crawling roach's nest of global oligrarchs with Western government leaders in their pockets. IT's disgusting. And concerning.

No wonder Putin so desperately didn't want Hillary to win. She'd have continued the Obama crackdown on the sequestering of Russian money in the US, and would have advocated that the other wealthy democracies do so, too.
posted by Miko at 11:10 AM on September 7, 2017 [24 favorites]


The lesson should be, "Do not try to cater to the mythical swing voter or Reagan Democrat, who no longer exist. Dare to be liberal." I do not know if it's a kind of party-wide C-PTSD as a result of the Nixon through Reagan years, or because donors are breathing down their necks, or obliviousness, or what, but I worry that the Democratic party (as a whole) hasn't learned that lesson.

QFT; both parts, unfortunately.
posted by Gelatin at 11:12 AM on September 7, 2017 [10 favorites]


It's fun to compare and contrast the statement the President himself wrote about the Russia meeting:
It was a short introductory meeting. I asked Jared and Paul to stop by. We primarily discussed a program about the adoption of Russian children that was active and popular with American families years ago and was since ended by the Russian government, but it was not a campaign issue at the time and there was no follow up.
with the most recent version:
Donald Trump Jr. told Senate investigators on Thursday that he set up a June 2016 meeting with a Russian lawyer because he was intrigued that she might have damaging information about Hillary Clinton, saying it was important to learn about Mrs. Clinton’s “fitness” to be president
And this incredibly credible story being told now via Jim Sciutto (who might learn how to thread tweets some day):
Breaking: Asked by Sen staff if he took any #Russians to see his father after June 2016 Trump Tower mtg, or told him abt it Don Jr denies 1/
2/Asked why his father promised the next day dirt is coming on Hillary Clinton, Don Jr told Senate that's just the way his father talks.
3/ Don Jr tells committee he didn't recall the details of the White House involvement in the public response to his meeting.
I realize the President lies all the time, but this particular lie is massive.

And if you're not reading Ta-Nehisi Coates' essay, or at least saving it to read later if you can't right now, you are doing this thread wrong.
posted by zachlipton at 11:13 AM on September 7, 2017 [40 favorites]


I know nothing about anything, but wouldn't Putin be like super pissed that T is allowing Russians to give birth to their children in the US? Their modus operandi has always been, make the Russians stay in Russia, no defections...

and a President who is now willing to work with the Democrats to undermine Ryan's priorities.

Er, no. The president wouldn't even understand that sentence.
posted by Melismata at 11:18 AM on September 7, 2017 [2 favorites]


No wonder Putin so desperately didn't want Hillary to win.

Instead he's got a tiger by the tail in that if/when Trump goes down then there could be a lot coming to light re the Russian oligarchs' international laundry business.

Including, potentially, a major backlash with a lot of asset forfeiture and increased sanctions beyond what Hillary would have been likely to get through.
posted by Buntix at 11:19 AM on September 7, 2017 [10 favorites]


The assumption seems to be that this will be a clean bill and that if it isn't a clean bill the Dems won't take the heat for voting no after pledging yes to a clean bill.

Has even that tiny level of nuance been seen yet in congressional reporting? Have the GOP been truly held to account for poisoning deals, bills, etc etc then walking away from the smoking ruins of what was needed?

I don't think this is a bad move because Schumer and Pelosi don't know what they're doing. I think it's a bad move because it doesn't matter if Schumer and Pelosi know what they're doing.
posted by Slackermagee at 11:20 AM on September 7, 2017


The assumption seems to be that this will be a clean bill and that if it isn't a clean bill the Dems won't take the heat for voting no after pledging yes to a clean bill.

The bill already passed the House and the Senate is voting on it as we speak. They beefed up some of the Harvey funding (more money for Community Development Block Grants in hurricane-impacted areas in fact), but I haven't seen anything about the GOP poisoning it. They've got this.

There's also going to be a fun vote in 35 minutes or so where House Ways & Means Republicans will be bringing up a resolution to release Trump's tax returns only to vote it down, because otherwise it's something the entire House would have to go on the record by voting on it. But at least we'll get a bunch of Republicans on the record with votes that they don't want to see what Trump is hiding.
posted by zachlipton at 11:28 AM on September 7, 2017 [28 favorites]


@hannahdreier: "Getting tips that ICE is gearing up for a major raid called "Operation Mega" that would net 8,400 immigrants nationwide from Sept. 17 - 22"

{ Twitter bio: ProPublica reporter covering immigration. Previously, three years in Venezuela as correspondent for The AP. }

No details beyond the above yet.
posted by Buntix at 11:34 AM on September 7, 2017 [7 favorites]


"The leaders of the South largely attempted reconciliation, imperfectly"

I suppose it's beating a dead horse to point out yet again how wrong My Lady Peggington is, but, yeah, that "imperfectly attempted reconciliation" includes the brutal assassination of Benjamin Franklin Randolph, a black state senator from Orangeburg, SC, in 1868. He wasn't in office a year.
posted by octobersurprise at 11:36 AM on September 7, 2017 [12 favorites]


Fox anchor: "One could very easily argue ... that this was President Trump protecting the Dreamers"

"One could very easily argue... that this was the Big Bad Wolf helping the pigs prepare their homes for hurricane season."
posted by tonycpsu at 11:37 AM on September 7, 2017 [24 favorites]


Fox anchor: "One could very easily argue ... that this was President Trump protecting the Dreamers"

Nice to see them admit that bad-faith dissembling and spurious logic comes so easily to them, but we knew that already.
posted by Gelatin at 11:42 AM on September 7, 2017 [5 favorites]


The DNC’s Technology Chief is Phishing His Staff. Good. (Issie Lapowsky for Wired, Sept. 7, 2017)
Issie Lapowsky: You joined the DNC at a time when many others had run away. How come?

Raffi Krikorian: It never crossed my mind until around Inauguration Day. I was in a hotel room in San Francisco, and I was just like, “Gahhh!” I called my friend Alexander Macgillivray, who used to be deputy CTO of the United States and said, “What can someone like me even do in this world?” He laid out two or three options. The DNC was the hardest to get a hold of. I kept pinging, pinging, pinging until the chief of staff took my call. He then introduced me to DNC Chairman Tom Perez, and Tom’s first question was, “What can we do about our cyber problem?” I was like, “Can we just not call it a cyber problem? Can we start there?”
I like Raffi already.
IL: Since you’ve gotten here, what have you done to make the party more secure?

RK: It’s a whole bunch of staff training. Turn off text messages. Move to end-to-end encryption. Get two-factor authentication in place. We’ve moved all our stuff into the cloud. The nice thing is that so many people want to help us. We’re approached by email and storage providers who are willing to fully disclose what their security plans are and how it’ll help us. We’re taking them up on their offers. We’re figuring out how to partner with Microsoft for email or Google for collaboration tools, and then we use a login provider across all our stuff that enforces two-factor authentication.

It’s not exactly rocket science, but you have to do it holistically. I got Tom Perez to stand up in front of the all-staff meeting and be like, “If you’re going to talk to me, Tom Perez, you’re using [the encrypted-messaging app] Signal. I will not respond otherwise.” This is important. The nation’s future is at play here. It’s about getting people to think that way. Even in the next few days we’re going to do a series of simulated phishing attacks on the entire DNC staff.

IL: Do they know that?

RK: You’re the first person I’ve told.
Awesome, all around.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:44 AM on September 7, 2017 [81 favorites]


@hannahdreier: "Getting tips that ICE is gearing up for a major raid called "Operation Mega" that would net 8,400 immigrants nationwide from Sept. 17 - 22"

How could that possibly work? Isn't ICE employment around 15,000 total? Where do you put all these folks? It's not that I doubt their willingness to enrich a lot of private prison operators in this way but are their agreements and appropriations in place to pull this off?

I don't buy it.
posted by phearlez at 11:46 AM on September 7, 2017 [1 favorite]


If you're wondering why Ryan and McConnell needed this deal, 17 Senate Republicans just voted against the Harvey/debit ceiling/CR bill (passed 80-17): Enzi Fischer Ernst Flake Graham Grassley Johnson Lankford Lee McCain Moran Paul Risch Sasse Toomey. Please remember this when McCain or Sasse are cited as reasonable Republicans. Sure, some of them would have voted for it if they had to, but they were nowhere near able to do this with Republican votes alone.
posted by zachlipton at 11:49 AM on September 7, 2017 [29 favorites]


Fox anchor: "One could very easily argue ... that this was President Trump protecting the Dreamers"

Well, sure. I can easily argue the moon is made of green cheese, that the earth will be destroyed on August 23, 2024 by Glebrixu the Destroyer, and that the Lord of the Rings is an actual history book.

The arguments would suck, but I could argue all of that.

And I'm not just talking contradiction, either.
posted by nubs at 11:50 AM on September 7, 2017 [4 favorites]


Yeah, I don't buy it. From wikipedia (based on data in a 2010 paper):
ICE operates detention centers throughout the United States that detain illegal aliens who are apprehended and placed into removal proceedings. About 31,000 aliens are held in immigration detention on any given day,[27] in over 200 detention centers, jails, and prisons nationwide.[28]
They're going to capture and detain a quantity of people that represents 30% of their usual number of detainees, in one week? That is up there with 9% annual GDP growth as far as credible assertions.
posted by phearlez at 11:51 AM on September 7, 2017 [4 favorites]


From the DNC CTO article:
IL: Shifting gears slightly, you spent five years at Twitter. Given what we've seen recently, do you believe Twitter’s good or bad for democracy?

RK: I’ve been at the Twitter VP table. I can imagine what these conversations are like. [sighs]. When I was at Twitter, we literally saw people’s high school proms on the platform. I want people to remember that’s the stuff Twitter is really good at, and then I want to figure out how to teach people to use Twitter better. The president has clearly mastered it, but that’s only one way of doing it. There’s amazing grassroots organizing on the platform. Twitter is a medium, and we need to focus on the people using it.
[emphasis mine]

That man has the weirdest definition of "mastered it".
posted by hanov3r at 11:55 AM on September 7, 2017 [4 favorites]


Nonsense, nubs. The moon is a Wensleydale and The Silmarillion is the the history book.

We should all be preparing for Glebrixu's regin of terror, tho.
posted by Phobos the Space Potato at 11:55 AM on September 7, 2017 [4 favorites]


Since you’ve gotten here, what have you done to make the party more secure?

We’ve moved all our stuff into the cloud.


GAAAAAAH. When you've given someone else your stuff, SOMEBODY ELSE HAS YOUR STUFF. It doesn't much matter what the contracts say - you're the frog carrying a scorpion at that point. A contract is a just a promise to sue. Further, even so far as they won't sell/access your stuff directly, the data about how you use the service is also valuable, and tech companies are notoriously shitty about that, too.

The nation’s future is at play here. It’s about getting people to think [of security] that way.


FFS, we are this far into the 21st fucking century, and the DNC has just now figuring this out ? We are ruled by morons.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 11:56 AM on September 7, 2017 [25 favorites]


Yeah, I don't buy it. From wikipedia (based on data in a 2010 paper):
ICE operates detention centers throughout the United States that detain illegal aliens who are apprehended and placed into removal proceedings. About 31,000 aliens are held in immigration detention on any given day,[27] in over 200 detention centers, jails, and prisons nationwide.[28]
They're going to capture and detain a quantity of people that represents 30% of their usual number of detainees, in one week? That is up there with 9% annual GDP growth as far as credible assertions.


In existing prisons. No one's heard of any camps being built, right? (Serious question given how ICE is behaving, and the last bit of doom and gloom hypothesizing from me in this thread)
posted by Slackermagee at 12:01 PM on September 7, 2017 [3 favorites]


You can store stuff in "the cloud" in an encrypted manner that minimizes loss risk and you can do it in a way that makes it less painful to walk away and go elsewhere. And it's not like doing it yourself is without risk; I'd argue that for a small organization like the DNC it is probably less risky to house your stuff with a reputable operation that has the staff and experience to run shit.

Clearly they tried it the other keep-it-in-house way and THAT didn't work out all that securely.

I'd also give a person of this professional pedigree a little credit for making the least-awful choice (and let's face it, that's what security is; if you want a computer that is 100% impossible to penetrate then pull out the power cord) and also for maybe not giving away a perfectly accurate description of the entire operation to a media outlet.
posted by phearlez at 12:03 PM on September 7, 2017 [38 favorites]


And it's not like doing it yourself is without risk; I'd argue that for a small organization like the DNC it is probably less risky to house your stuff with a reputable operation that has the staff and experience to run shit.

Especially when a major news story of the last year or two was a figurehead of your org allegedly not doing a good job of running email services*, it might be time to bring in the SMEs. Anyone spending money on "the cloud" must understand that they're spending money on "managed server rentals", but hey, someone's going to be managing your server either way.


*[NOT A RELITIGATINGISTER]
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 12:11 PM on September 7, 2017 [5 favorites]


@Marshall_Cohen: CNN EXCLUSIVE: Mueller's team reached out to WH about interviewing staffers involved in crafting misleading Trump Tower meeting statement.

Mueller sure seems to be hitting on the "misleading" (it was actually just plain false) statement angle hard. My question is whether that's the focus of the investigation (as in, he thinks the false statement constituted a crime) or whether he's using having caught them in a lie as leverage to investigate something else.

In other news, Politico's Josh Dawsey reports that Upbeat Trump raves to Schumer, Pelosi about news coverage of their deal: Trump called them up this morning to gloat about his news coverage:
Trump specifically mentioned TV segments praising the deal and indicated he'd been watching in a call with Schumer, two people said. And he was jovial in a call with Pelosi and agreed to send a tweet she asked for about the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program, these people said, while also mentioning the attention the deal had gotten. He indicated to both leaders he would be willing to work together again.

"He seemed super upbeat," one person familiar with the calls said.

Another person familiar with the calls said Trump told Pelosi her coverage was even better than his. “The press has been incredible,” Trump said.

Pelosi herself bragged that she had gotten results after asking him to tweet reassurances that Dreamers shouldn't worry about being deported over the next six months while lawmakers try to secure a DACA fix.

“I was telling my colleagues, ‘This is what I asked the president to do,' and boom boom boom, the tweet appeared," she said at a news conference Thursday.
Pelosi is dictating his tweets now? This is incredibly surreal. Trump is also reportedly having dinner with Paul Ryan tonight, which I guess is just the polite thing to do after stabbing him repeatedly in the chest and hanging his carcass out for Lou Dobbs to feast on.
posted by zachlipton at 12:11 PM on September 7, 2017 [69 favorites]


They're going to capture and detain a quantity of people that represents 30% of their usual number of detainees, in one week?

8,400 is also an oddly specific number (and coincidentally the previous max number of U.S. troops in Afghanistan).

If it wasn't that the source seems credible...

I'd really hope, if there is any truth to it, that it's not related to: Trump order could give immigration agents a foothold in US schools
posted by Buntix at 12:14 PM on September 7, 2017


I got Tom Perez to stand up in front of the all-staff meeting and be like, “If you’re going to talk to me, Tom Perez, you’re using [the encrypted-messaging app] Signal.
Thank Christ. I'm glad that people are finally learning the correct message from tangling with Assange--you don't have to pay his "secrecy tax" if you just use encryption.
posted by xyzzy at 12:14 PM on September 7, 2017 [4 favorites]


Somebody on Twitter said that the Dems might be able to get Trump pushing single-payer by giving him a gold-framed "President of the Month" portrait and that's....mostly absurd? But also a little not?
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 12:14 PM on September 7, 2017 [18 favorites]


But also a little not?
This has actually been "a thing" going around for awhile. Friends of Trump are insisting that if Dems just hand him a couple of "wins" and do a little boot licking he'll quietly resign.

It's not worth the risk.
posted by xyzzy at 12:16 PM on September 7, 2017 [1 favorite]


I don't mean it in the sense that a "more realistic" version of that strategy would be a valid course of action. I mean that it is not wholly unbelievable that the parodical scenario outlined in that post could literally come to pass because the White House operates on dream logic now.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 12:18 PM on September 7, 2017 [7 favorites]


I'd really hope, if there is any truth to it, that it's not related to: Trump order could give immigration agents a foothold in US schools

It seems certain that, assuming this isn't just an effort to whip up fear and paranoia (which I think is very possible), that this is about not detaining people but rather some form of documenting/tracking.

This has actually been "a thing" going around for awhile. Friends of Trump are insisting that if Dems just hand him a couple of "wins" and do a little boot licking he'll quietly resign.

It's not worth the risk.


If all the "wins" are things that were unpreventable or actually good for Dems (and permanently shitcanning the debt ceiling is unquestionably good for Dems) then I might actually disagree. But I also don't think this idea is real likely to work in execution or in result.
posted by phearlez at 12:20 PM on September 7, 2017 [3 favorites]


Not worth the risk but at least it's a nice reminder of how miserable he is.
posted by LarsC at 12:20 PM on September 7, 2017 [1 favorite]


Dems might be able to get Trump pushing single-payer by giving him a gold-framed "President of the Month" portrait and that's....mostly absurd?

I don't think Trump has any baked in principles about health care or even any interest in the debate, so he's unpredictable. I could 100% see Trump getting on board with "Medicare for All," if the Democrats told him that even President Obama couldn't get this through and had to settle for Obamacare. As long as his headlines are good, FoxNews still praises him, and he can undo part of Obama's legacy, he could sign off anything. (Obviously, Fox would have a flock of birds if they thought that Medicare for All would pass.)
posted by gladly at 12:25 PM on September 7, 2017 [1 favorite]


@hannahdreier: "Getting tips that ICE is gearing up for a major raid called "Operation Mega" that would net 8,400 immigrants nationwide from Sept. 17 - 22"


"Operation MAGA", surely.
posted by darkstar at 12:26 PM on September 7, 2017 [8 favorites]


assuming this isn't just an effort to whip up fear and paranoia (which I think it very possible)

That it's supposedly called 'Operation MEGA' does make it seem likely that it's something disseminated by some dark alt-right rumour mill.
posted by Buntix at 12:27 PM on September 7, 2017


.... I just realized that Shumer and Pelosi just played congressional "good cop" to the Republican's bad cop, and now are getting all the goods (at least for now).

It also helps that the things the Democrats are promoting are liked by the general public - not crashing the economy, sending relief funds to Texas, helping people survive illnesses, etc, so it's not like the Freedom Caucus is going to drum up people in the streets to protest because the debt ceiling debate was pushed off 3 months.

It kind of all goes back to how I feel about opposition to 45 vs the opposition to Obama. The Republican's opposition to Obama was because of racism. They may of couched it as policy decisions, but withholding a SCOTUS nominee without even a vote is more than just policy differences. The public's and Democrats opposition to 45 may be colored by BEC, but it is firmly rooted in the evil policy positions, anti-ACA, anti-DACA, Muslim ban, DeVos, Pruitt, Tillerson, provoking North Korea, etc etc etc etc *sob*

So I don't feel too bad if the Democratic leadership can maneuver the policy decisions that will help the country. Not defaulting on our debt will help the country, sending money to Harvey (and Irma) victims will help the country, signing the DREAM act (or equivalent) will help the country. As long as they're not giving up concessions to keep chugging along with incremental help for Americans, we can keep up the pressure until impeachment.
posted by Hermeowne Grangepurr at 12:30 PM on September 7, 2017 [25 favorites]


Fox anchor: "One could very easily argue ... that this was President Trump protecting the Dreamers"

Hey, I'll take the fact that they seem to have pivoted to "the Dreamers should be protected". If they're going to submit so thoroughly to the Dilettante-in-Chief, use it against 'em.
posted by Etrigan at 12:31 PM on September 7, 2017 [1 favorite]


The public's and Democrats opposition to 45 may be colored by BEC...

What means this?
posted by Mental Wimp at 12:33 PM on September 7, 2017


BEC
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 12:36 PM on September 7, 2017 [6 favorites]


Fox anchor: "One could very easily argue ... that this was President Trump protecting the Dreamers"

One could also very easily argue that Stonewall Jackson was an Abolitionist, too, and some (inconceivably) do. But that don't make it right.
posted by darkstar at 12:39 PM on September 7, 2017 [2 favorites]


For those who weren't able to find time for Mike's links, all this concern the Trumps allegedly felt about Russia adoptions is really about protecting Russian oligarchs -- particularly those tied to Putin -- and their money. Because Russia banned adoptions of Russian children as direct retailiation for the Magnitsky Act.

Who is Magnitsky, you ask? From Miko's links:

Sergei Magnitsky, a Russian lawyer and auditor who in 2008 untangled a dense web of tax fraud and graft involving 23 companies and a total of $230 million linked to the Kremlin and individuals close to the government. Magnitsky was the target of investigations, arrested by authorities and kept in jail without charges. He was beaten and later died under mysterious circumstances in jail just days before his possible release.

And the Magnitsky Act?:

The Magnitsky Act was signed by President Barack Obama in December 2012 as a retaliation against the human rights abuses suffered by Magnitsky. The law at first blocked 18 Russian government officials and businessmen from entering the United States, froze any assets held by U.S. banks and banned their future use of U.S. banking systems. The act was expanded in 2016, and now sanctions apply to 44 suspected human rights abusers worldwide.

Talk about Russian adoptions is code for talking about how to get back access to their assets for corrupt Russians/Putin allies. The quid pro quos are endless in the Trump/Russia story line.
posted by bearwife at 12:40 PM on September 7, 2017 [26 favorites]


I thought they banned adoptions after being called out on the fact that they were sending kids over without disclosing their disabilities.
posted by Melismata at 12:43 PM on September 7, 2017 [2 favorites]


And if the Russians are so concerned about the lack of US-Russia adoptions, they can...just petition Putin to reverse the rule. It only exists for retaliation purposes!
posted by Hermeowne Grangepurr at 12:44 PM on September 7, 2017 [2 favorites]


Nope. It was about the Magnitsky Act. And getting Russian adoptions going again is about repealing the Act.
posted by bearwife at 12:44 PM on September 7, 2017 [17 favorites]


I thought the Republicans wanted fewer foreigners in the US. Why do they want all these Russian babies all of a sudden?
posted by Faint of Butt at 12:46 PM on September 7, 2017 [4 favorites]


I apparently have a very different media diet than many of you. I'd listened to multiple hours of people talking about the Magnitsky Act within a week of Junior's initial description of that meeting.
posted by diogenes at 12:47 PM on September 7, 2017 [40 favorites]


Well, according to this article and others, it was the Torry Ann Hansen incident (she put her adopted son, who terrorized the family, on a plane back to Russia) that caused them to ban adoptions. But I only know what I read, oh well.
posted by Melismata at 12:50 PM on September 7, 2017


I learned most of what I know on the subject of Magnitsky & adoptions via Bill Browder's testimony to the Senate Judiciary Committee, which I found in a previous MeFi politics thread and which is probably worth linking again.
posted by galaxy rise at 12:53 PM on September 7, 2017 [36 favorites]


Well, according to this article and others, it was the Torry Ann Hansen incident (she put her adopted son, who terrorized the family, on a plane back to Russia) that caused them to ban adoptions. But I only know what I read, oh well.

That may well have been what they looked at to say "Oh, I know! We can ban adoptions and not have to say it's about Maginstky!" but it's totally about Maginstky.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 12:54 PM on September 7, 2017 [11 favorites]


From that NYT article:
Speaking to NBC News, [Putin] rejected the idea that evidence pointed to Russia — while showing a striking familiarity with how cyberattackers might cover their tracks.

“IP addresses can be simply made up,” Mr. Putin said, referring to Internet protocol addresses, which can identify particular computers. “There are such IT specialists in the world today, and they can arrange anything and then blame it on whomever. This is no proof.”
I mean, maybe things have changed since I studied networking a couple of decades ago, but I don't really think that's the way things work. IP addresses can be forged in a lot of DDoS attacks because they use UDP, a protocol that doesn't require two-way communication. Accessing a website like Facebook is done over TCP, which requires a sequence of back-and-forth communication that really makes forgery of originating IP address quite difficult.

Outside of the use of VPNs (which isn't really 'making up' an IP address as much as it's 'using a different IP address that you still have access to'), remotely controlling a botted machine, and weird things like asymmetrical routing (an old spammer trick - connect to a dialup, send a bunch of mail from your hosted server farm 'forging' your dialup IP as the originating IP so that response traffic can still come back to you), forging IP addresses in web-based communication is seriously difficult.
posted by hanov3r at 1:03 PM on September 7, 2017 [17 favorites]


zachlipton Pelosi is dictating his tweets now? This is incredibly surreal. Trump is also reportedly having dinner with Paul Ryan tonight, which I guess is just the polite thing to do after stabbing him repeatedly in the chest and hanging his carcass out for Lou Dobbs to feast on.

Or it means Ryan has realized that Trump basically does whatever the last person who spoke to him asked him to, and tonight's tweets will be dictated by Ryan and undo all of what Schumer and Pelosi did.
posted by sotonohito at 1:06 PM on September 7, 2017 [3 favorites]


Junior's testimony seems to have gone well.

@desiderioDC (Daily Beast)
👀 After Don Jr. testimony to Senate Judiciary Cmte, Sen. Chris Coons' office sends out statute on giving false statements to Congress [statement]
posted by chris24 at 1:06 PM on September 7, 2017 [53 favorites]


The Magnitsky thing leads me to believe that, in the end, Mueller is as much a threat to Putin as is he is to Trump. If Putin can't secure the cash of his supporting (or coerced) oligarchs, or launder it in the US anymore, he'll lose that base. Trump can't hold off Mueller, but I'd be a bit concerned if Putin tried to.
posted by klarck at 1:07 PM on September 7, 2017 [11 favorites]


the Torry Ann Hansen incident (she put her adopted son, who terrorized the family, on a plane back to Russia)

This framing is offensive.
posted by phearlez at 1:09 PM on September 7, 2017 [4 favorites]


Regarding DACA renewals, cjelli wrote:
Yes, if you would need to renew in that six-month window you need to do it, now, within one month (by October 5th); there's a fairly hefty processing fee, too, so if people were saving up with a mind to have that money ready in a few months -- well.

Does anyone of any organizations that provide assistance with DACA application/renewal fees? All I've been able to find are loan programs or lending circles.
posted by amarynth at 1:12 PM on September 7, 2017 [1 favorite]


WP: Gingrich or Santorum as speaker? House conservatives plot mischief for the fall

If we actually got a non House member as Speaker, I give up.
posted by Chrysostom at 1:12 PM on September 7, 2017 [2 favorites]


"... if Dems just hand him a couple of "wins" and do a little boot licking he'll quietly resign."

Except that he doesn't do ANYTHING "quietly."
posted by jgirl at 1:13 PM on September 7, 2017 [1 favorite]


Well, according to this article and others, it was the Torry Ann Hansen incident (she put her adopted son, who terrorized the family, on a plane back to Russia) that caused them to ban adoptions.

There were other unfortunate incidents that were also used as justification, but it was always about the Magnitsky act:
In 2011, the year before the Magnitsky Act was passed, about 1,000 Russian children were adopted by American families, more than from any other foreign country. Many more adoptions were still pending, some for American parents who had already met the children they expected to take home. An adoption freeze would be a grievous loss for those families.

The Russian government, sensing that those parents would be a vocal pressure group, proposed a law known as the “anti-Magnitsky law,” which would halt all adoptions of Russian children by Americans — including those that were already in process. The Kremlin cited the case of Dima Yakovlev, a Russian toddler who died after being adopted by American parents, as a pretext for the rule.

But the government also made clear that the new law would be retaliation for the Magnitsky Act.
This article from Julia Ioffe points out the absolute cruelty of doing this:
At the time the adoption ban was passed, the Russian Federation had more orphaned and abandoned children than it did after the end of World War II, which claimed the lives of 27 million Soviets. Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev bemoaned the 95 Russian orphans whose American adoptions fell through just as the law was signed in 2012, 95 Russian orphans whom Russians didn’t want to adopt. There was a massive outcry in Russia and thousands protested in Moscow against a bill that made no sense: If the Kremlin is so angry about the Magnitsky Act, why was it punishing … Russians? And the most vulnerable Russians at that?
...
The Magnitsky Act so angered the Russians because it targeted what really mattered to them; it went after Russian elites’ raison d’être. It’s why Senator John McCain called it a “pro-Russia” law, and many in the Russian opposition agreed: it went after not the Russian people, but the elites who stole from them with brazen impunity. The law hit the mark so precisely and painfully that the elite lashed out fiercely enough to do what neither the Magnitsky Act nor the 2014 sanctions did: They targeted their own, most vulnerable citizens—as if they haven’t stolen from them enough.
posted by peeedro at 1:16 PM on September 7, 2017 [37 favorites]


Trump basically does whatever the last person who spoke to him asked him to

I just realized the most powerful person in the country is quite possibly the steward who serves ice cream at the white house.
posted by cmfletcher at 1:17 PM on September 7, 2017 [40 favorites]


@desiderioDC (Daily Beast)
👀 After Don Jr. testimony to Senate Judiciary Cmte, Sen. Chris Coons' office sends out statute on giving false statements to Congress [statement]


Oh, 18 USC 1001, may you never stop paying dividends. ( While you're at it Senators, check out 18 USC 371.... )
posted by mikelieman at 1:19 PM on September 7, 2017 [9 favorites]


Oh cjelli, that must have been an awesome thread.
posted by JHarris at 1:26 PM on September 7, 2017


You have to be at least 25 years old to be elected to the House of Representatives, but if you can find a 25-year-old dog who wants to run for office, they have my vote.
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:28 PM on September 7, 2017 [7 favorites]


mikelieman: ( While you're at it Senators, check out 18 USC 371.... )

http://codes.findlaw.com/us/title-18-crimes-and-criminal-procedure/18-usc-sect-1001.html
posted by wenestvedt at 1:29 PM on September 7, 2017


'There's no rule saying a dog CAN'T be Speaker of the House!'

or a horse a senator
posted by entropicamericana at 1:36 PM on September 7, 2017 [4 favorites]


or a horse a senator

Or the ass thereof.
posted by jammer at 1:38 PM on September 7, 2017 [7 favorites]


but if you can find a 25-year-old dog who wants to run for office, they have my vote.

Dividing by 7 to convert from dog years gives 3.57 to 2 d.p.

Further factoring that we are currently living in the Trump time dilation field, where 1 month contains the same perceptual narrative that a year used to, we have an age of 0.30 years (again to 2 d.p.) being the pre-Trump doggy equivalent of 25 anos.

So even most puppies should be eligible.
posted by Buntix at 1:39 PM on September 7, 2017 [16 favorites]


> God, I love Metafilter.
posted by Melismata at 1:42 PM on September 7, 2017 [11 favorites]


http://codes.findlaw.com/us/title-18-crimes-and-criminal-procedure/18-usc-sect-1001.html
falsifies, conceals, or covers up by any trick, scheme, or device a material fact;
I guess there's always the old Illusion, Michael defense.
posted by Room 641-A at 1:44 PM on September 7, 2017 [13 favorites]


You have to be at least 25 years old to be elected to the House of Representatives,

This plus the earlier mention of certain names made me think about 25 year old santorum. I am now passing that thought on to all of you.
posted by bonje at 1:53 PM on September 7, 2017 [3 favorites]


This has actually been "a thing" going around for awhile. Friends of Trump are insisting that if Dems just hand him a couple of "wins" and do a little boot licking he'll quietly resign.

It's not worth the risk.


It's a balancing act. On the one hand, the president is desperate to be declared a "winner," and is going to make any deals he can that he believes will get him A Big Gold Trophy. On the other, if he's not miserable at the job, there's less incentive for him to resign. (And absolutely, Dems should not take the fact that he might be convinced to sign off on some Dem measures as proof that they "have him under control;" he won't tolerate that being the public image.)

But I do believe that if they couch their goals in broad, generic good terms ("this is legislation to help sick children" and not "this is the first steps toward single-payer health care") ("Don't be ridiculous - this isn't single payer. Each state pays separately; that's at least 50 payers. And some expenses are covered by insurance companies - even more payers.") they can get his support for a number of measures before the pendulum swings and he realizes that the Dems also never really liked him.

The issue was getting access to him, getting an audience, and it seems like Pelosi and Schumer have gotten past the roadblocks.

It's definitely time for any other Dems who had not-horrible relations with him when he was "just a business guy" to start talking to him about how Pence is lurking in the wings, pushing his own agenda and waiting for the chance to take over.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 1:57 PM on September 7, 2017 [7 favorites]


I don't know how many people are on Mueller's list to interview but I'm guessing she made like #17 — @AdamParkhomenko
A truly bizarre BBC video interview with Theresa Hong, one of "the brains" behind Trump's digital campaign. Watch Hong declare how refreshing it was to write as Trump on Facebook because he was "so authentic."
posted by octobersurprise at 2:01 PM on September 7, 2017 [13 favorites]


it seems all too possible that Trump could become addicted to the sweet sweet nectar of a majority of the public actually liking some of the things he does. this is a risky road for Democrats to walk with him but it's probably for the best if fluffing Nazis isn't the only way for him to get the positive feedback his terrible child brain needs
posted by prize bull octorok at 2:02 PM on September 7, 2017 [20 favorites]


""Operation Mega" that would net 8,400 immigrants nationwide from Sept. 17 - 22" " On weekend nights, let your white friends drive. Just do it. Then there is no other reason, legally to shake down the whole car. Where I live, police are setting up DUI roadblocks starting this Friday at 6PM. The weekend after Labor Day Weekend, so this is how they are going to roll, around here, maybe? Don't be angry with me at this suggestion, and always carry your ID, no matter who you are.
posted by Oyéah at 2:05 PM on September 7, 2017 [12 favorites]


The Russian Babies? Well regardless of what goes down at the laundry, the baby can be on the American accounts, because baby is an American. The parents probably can be conservators, or whatever financial institution they deem as conservator. Yeah, the babies are the money lords.
posted by Oyéah at 2:12 PM on September 7, 2017 [3 favorites]


Yeah, I was thinking Hillary as Pelosi's Vice President, then Pelosi steps down. Wishful thinking that we might could reenter some era of responsible, able, governance. Hah, the Republicans just got insided by Trump, just when they were thinking he might be their dream date, he suddenly goes for the girl across the room. Even if Hillary were the POTUS now, the school of tools in the congress would be worse than they were for Obama, because she has no penis, no penis at all. They are terrified of Hillary, because she never forgets anyone, or anything.
posted by Oyéah at 2:36 PM on September 7, 2017 [1 favorite]


Clinton has about as much chance of getting on the ticket again as Kerry.
posted by Coventry at 2:38 PM on September 7, 2017 [8 favorites]


Sp about Don Jr's interview. If you recall, the big urgent situation with Flynn was that he had lied to the American people about something the Russians knew the truth about, and was therefore vulnerable to blackmail. Doesn't that apply, possibly even more so, to Jared right now, and quite possible to the President?

What happens if, tomorrow, or four months ago, Veselnitskaya or Akhmetshin or someone pops up and says "the meeting was about hacked emails and I have documents to prove it?" Doesn't even matter if that's true or not. Anybody on the other side can claim crimes were committed in that meeting and Jared, Don Jr., and Manafort, not to mention the President who wrote the false statement about the meeting, have no real ability to refute it, not after admitting they were in the room discussing Clinton. How is this not a gigantic national security problem?
posted by zachlipton at 2:39 PM on September 7, 2017 [11 favorites]


How is this not a gigantic national security problem?

It is, hence the ongoing special investigation.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 2:45 PM on September 7, 2017 [5 favorites]


Maybe the president can recuse himself from, you know, being President? Donnie's generally a paragon of integrity, so I'm sure he'll address this option soon enough.
posted by Brak at 3:07 PM on September 7, 2017 [1 favorite]


The Justice Department filed a Supreme Court brief today siding with the baker in the gay marriage discrimination case, arguing that forcing him to not discriminate would violate his first amendment rights. A 9th Circuit ruling on the travel ban is expected shortly.

Also about the meeting, a very good point from Rep. Schiff: Don Jr. mentions many things in his statement that are consistent with what he said a few months ago, but he leaves out the part where he used to claim his father didn't know anything about this. And he admits phone calls with Agalarov that he claims not to remember.
posted by zachlipton at 3:10 PM on September 7, 2017 [14 favorites]


Regarding the "balancing act" of Democrats in Congress working with the President: I don't even see it in the light of walking some tightrope of expectations of outcomes. If I'm a Democratic Congressperson, the way I'm looking at the current state of affairs is:
  1. For better or worse, this is the President we have at this point.
  2. There's basically fuck-all I can do to influence the majority in Congress to do anything to change that situation.
  3. This president is almost entirely without political ideology, and:
  4. This president is extremely impressionable.
Until some of the levers for 1 and 2 can be improved (mid-terms, change in Congressional make-up, indictments, etc.), fuck it: it's the President's game, and I'll play it. I'll work to bamboozle him into supporting whatever legislative cause I'm here to represent. Why not? What do you even have to lose? The moment he forces you to compromise on a bridge too far, you walk away from whatever partnership is involved. It's not like you can really hope to establish any sort of long-term alliance with someone like Trump anyway. Grab what you can, when you can, and make lemonade.

It's doubtful you'll ever get much out of this approach, but the alternative is to get nothing anyway. Nothing to lose.
posted by Brak at 3:24 PM on September 7, 2017 [49 favorites]


And here's that ruling.

@WangCecillia: BREAKING: 9th Circuit affirms order stopping govt from enforcing the Muslim ban vs grandparents, cousins, etc., and refugees w/ assurances

Turns out that grandparents really are close family. Who knew?
posted by zachlipton at 3:25 PM on September 7, 2017 [56 favorites]


Outside of the use of VPNs (which isn't really 'making up' an IP address as much as it's 'using a different IP address that you still have access to'), remotely controlling a botted machine, and weird things like asymmetrical routing (an old spammer trick - connect to a dialup, send a bunch of mail from your hosted server farm 'forging' your dialup IP as the originating IP so that response traffic can still come back to you), forging IP addresses in web-based communication is seriously difficult.

Even techniques like the TCP sequence prediction attack used by the hacker that broke into Tsutomu Shimamura's server (that Kevin Mitnick took credit for) wouldn't work in a web environment, too much back-&-forth for a blind attack to duplicate. About the only things that might do the job are DNS poisoning attacks or if you're really aggressive & don't care how noisy you are, stealing all traffic for an ASN with a bogus BGP announcement. Vlad should stick to his forte, geopolitics & corruption.
posted by scalefree at 3:33 PM on September 7, 2017 [4 favorites]


WP: Gingrich or Santorum as speaker? House conservatives plot mischief for the fall

Hell, why not get Hastert? He's not dead and the Constitution doesn't prohibit the Speaker from being an inmate (does it?).
posted by Mental Wimp at 3:40 PM on September 7, 2017 [5 favorites]


Not to abuse the edit function, turns out Hastert is a free man.
posted by Mental Wimp at 3:42 PM on September 7, 2017


"In a surprise move, the Trump administration on Thursday sided with a Colorado bakery whose owner is arguing to the Supreme Court that he should not need to bake a cake for a same-sex couple when their ceremony violates his religious beliefs."

Who is surprised by this? I am not surprised. I mean, perhaps there's a little bit of raised eyebrow action, in that I didn't know they were paying attention to it, but I'm not remotely surprised that this is the stance they've taken.

"Masterpiece Cakeshop, however, is run by Jack Phillips, a man who incorporates his Christian faith into the way he runs his business. Baking a cake, which he maintains is a form of creative expression, for a same-sex couple would violate his religious beliefs and, as such, he has refused to do so."

I think there is an issue here, and I'm actually going to read the brief carefully to sort out what it argues.

There's a difference beween "must sell goods and provide generic services to anyone, regardless of category," and "must implement your creativity on behalf of anyone who asks." I'm not sure where it's reasonable to draw the line, but I would not be willing, f'rex, to write a Christian-themed wedding ceremony, where I'd be happy to write a Pagan one. Or, sticking with things I've been paid for in the past: I would be happy to help an LGBT religious group scan and organize its archives; I would not be willing to provide the same services to an evangelical Christian church.

AFAIK, the current legal situation doesn't really acknowledge the difference between creative work and other business activities. And I can see a difference between "you are a cashier; you may not refuse to sell the store's goods to whoever gets in line with money," and "you are an artist; you must paint the portrait of anyone who commissions you." The first: Sure, I get that. The second is trickier. I suspect this case isn't actually going to revolve around the question of "is a wedding cake a matter of personal artistic expression," though.

However, if the final ruling is "it's okay to discriminate in ways that would otherwise be illegal, as long as it has a religious cause," I invite you all to join the Discordian religion and refuse to do business with Greyfaces on religious grounds; Hail Eris and pass the fnords.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 3:52 PM on September 7, 2017 [35 favorites]


Trump Org ethics lawyer's wife busted getting busy with a convict in back seat of her car in the parking lot outside his jail. Also present, one bag of "workout pills" plus miscellaneous other contraband. Not mentioned, chili dogs or the nearest Tastee Freez.
posted by scalefree at 3:58 PM on September 7, 2017 [29 favorites]


I would be happy to help an LGBT religious group scan and organize its archives; I would not be willing to provide the same services to an evangelical Christian church.

Do have a store that offers scanning and organizing that's open to the public? 'Cause this dude has a cake store in a public shopping center.
posted by kirkaracha at 4:00 PM on September 7, 2017 [17 favorites]


You have me thinking again about this, ErisLordFreedom, but I end up concluding that if it is a public accommodation, that there is creativity involved does not make it okay to discriminate against someone else on the grounds that you don't think they should have the constitutional right they do. One part of the Constitution cannot trump another. (I also hate Donald for making me reluctant to use that excellent word.) I don't think Trump can constitutionally pardon Arpaio for violating constitutional rights. And I don't think the right of free expression or freedom of religion can constitutionally be used to deny services to people exercising their constitutional right to marry.
posted by bearwife at 4:04 PM on September 7, 2017 [5 favorites]


A very unlikely hero steps forward to save us. Can Dennis Rodman ‘straighten things out’ between Donald Trump and Kim Jong Un?
posted by scalefree at 4:04 PM on September 7, 2017 [4 favorites]


I think the better argument against the cake exception is this: are members of Christian Identity churches allowed to discriminate against Blacks and Jews in their public accommodations? Because that's the clear implication of such a ruling.

On the other hand, there's a Portland comedian (Nariko Ott, now in NYC, IIRC) who has a great bit pointing out how far the right wing has had to retreat, going from gay sex being literally a felony in 1986 to conceding gay marriage 5 years ago to now struggling to defend the right to refuse cake, all in just 20 years..
posted by msalt at 4:09 PM on September 7, 2017 [33 favorites]


Trump Org ethics lawyer's wife busted getting busy with a convict in back seat of her car in the parking lot outside his jail. Also present, one bag of "workout pills" plus miscellaneous other contraband.

If anyone needs me I'll be refreshing Richard Painter's Twitter.
posted by Room 641-A at 4:12 PM on September 7, 2017 [5 favorites]


WP: Gingrich or Santorum as speaker? House conservatives plot mischief for the fall

Since Republicans are so happy breaking precedents and unspoken rules, why not just make Trump the Speaker of the House? Wonderfully effective way to consolidate power, if you like that sort of thing.
posted by msalt at 4:18 PM on September 7, 2017 [1 favorite]


I'll do it. I'll be Speaker of the House.
posted by Mister Cheese at 4:21 PM on September 7, 2017 [21 favorites]


My hardware store is an art studio. When customers walk in, I talk to them and custom create a shopping cart for them. You commission an artwork that is the ensemble of items that will satisfy your inner need (for a non-leaky faucet, say). My artistic freedom will be infringed if I have to serve those nasty other people.
posted by phliar at 4:22 PM on September 7, 2017 [11 favorites]


more from Ty Cobb and his prankster over at Business Insider: Trump lawyer Ty Cobb, tricked by an 'email prankster,' asks for 'drone' in private emails slamming reporter

The best part is that the emails all literally come from @emailprankster.co.uk.
posted by zachlipton at 4:27 PM on September 7, 2017 [14 favorites]


I blame Subway for the sandwich artist precedent.
posted by orange ball at 4:30 PM on September 7, 2017 [16 favorites]


There's a difference beween "must sell goods and provide generic services to anyone, regardless of category," and "must implement your creativity on behalf of anyone who asks."

Yes, and that line when you apply for a business license. The baker isn't being forced to do shit. His company is.

And being as the company doesn't have a soul and can't get into heaven anyway, I can't see how religion factors into it.

But, this is also the SCOTUS that managed to find their way to my wife's employer's religious views having more say over her medical care than mine, or, more to the point (and less biblically) hers.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 4:32 PM on September 7, 2017 [14 favorites]


Found a nice article about the cake issue: Critics of Indiana’s religious freedom law are trying to have their cake and eat it, too, which mentions the three (main) possible legal rulings:

1) If you choose to go into a particular business, you lose the ability to withhold services based on the content of messages or the specific attributes of an event. That would mean a bakery couldn’t refuse to inscribe an anti-gay message on a cake — or a birthday message to someone named Adolf Hitler Campbell (which a New Jersey ShopRite said no to a few years ago). Under this approach, a cake would be viewed as a form of speech of the customer, not the baker.

2) an absolute discretionary rule that allows businesses to decline services or products when they substantially burden religious values. This could lead to a significant rollback of this country’s progress since desegregation. Even the sponsors of the Indiana law have indicated that they do not want such a broad rule.

3) limited exception for expressive services or products. Under this approach, a bakery could not refuse to sell basic cakes to anyone but it could refuse to customize cakes with objectionable symbols or words.

When I have time, I want to read the DoJ brief to find out if they're arguing for option 2 or option 3. I would like to not have Option 1 become finalized law, because as we have noticed, there are a lot of bigots with money in this country, and I don't want them trolling minority-owned businesses by forcing them to produce works they find horribly offensive.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 4:35 PM on September 7, 2017 [11 favorites]


> The best part is that the emails all literally come from @emailprankster.co.uk.

That domain will take you to a blog/fundraising page that describes Sinon Reborn's mission.
posted by christopherious at 4:45 PM on September 7, 2017


From the Business Insider article about the email prankster tricking Ty Cobb over the course of multiple emails:
"Thank you, Ty. I think I've overthought things," the prankster replied. "i've ruined the contacts on my damn iPhone! Can't find the Big Man's email address... apple have a lot to answer for!"

Cobb apparently figured out that he was being pranked.

"Felony to impersonate a federal official," he wrote in his next message.
Lol. The prankster didn't do enough research and pushed it one step too far. Everyone knows that Trump doesn't really do email.
posted by mhum at 4:53 PM on September 7, 2017 [6 favorites]


However, if the final ruling is "it's okay to discriminate in ways that would otherwise be illegal, as long as it has a religious cause," I invite you all to join the Discordian religion and refuse to do business with Greyfaces on religious grounds; Hail Eris and pass the fnords.

Another good reason to be a Discordian; which seems more true: that your god is merciful and loving to all, or that your god(dess) enjoys fucking with you and causing chaos and strife?
posted by The otter lady at 5:05 PM on September 7, 2017 [6 favorites]


Wherein Wonkette takes publicly available information and finds out that awful person and bigot Tomi Lahren – who constantly attacks DACA and illegal immigrants – had a great great grandfather who was an undocumented immigrant arrested and tried in 1917 for forging immigration papers.
posted by chris24 at 5:05 PM on September 7, 2017 [84 favorites]


I blame Subway for the sandwich artist precedent.
posted by orange ball at 6:30 PM on September 7 [3 favorites +] [!]


Especially because, clearly, Subs are not sandwiches. Pseudo-sandwiches, proven by The Whelk.
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 5:14 PM on September 7, 2017


I will grant that almost any and all cooking, including putting together a cold sandwich can be creative and a work of art, but will definitely leave that for a metatalk/ask me/fpp instead of de-railing
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 5:18 PM on September 7, 2017 [1 favorite]


I'm going to totally derail this thread and offer what may be the ultimate solution to the sandwich-or-not conundrum, as it was presented to me today:
When asked to determine whether something is or is not a sandwich, I pretend that I am John Montagu, 4th Earl of Sandwich, and that I have just asked my servants to bring me something I can neatly eat with one hand while I play cards with my friends. If I cannot do so, the item in question is clearly not a sandwich, and my servants are to be punished for their insolence.
posted by Faint of Butt at 5:20 PM on September 7, 2017 [67 favorites]


I apparently have a very different media diet than many of you. I'd listened to multiple hours of people talking about the Magnitsky Act within a week of Junior's initial description of that meeting.
...
I learned most of what I know on the subject of Magnitsky & adoptions via Bill Browder's testimony to the Senate Judiciary Committee, which I found in a previous MeFi politics thread and which is probably worth linking again.


I didn't see the link so far: A-Heros-Legacy-The-Backstory-Regarding-Trump-Campaign-Corruption
Apologies if already linked.
posted by MtDewd at 5:24 PM on September 7, 2017 [4 favorites]


Some odds and sods.

The Nation, Emmanuel Felton, The Department of Justice Is Overseeing the Resegregation of American Schools. A nice longform investigative piece into how schools are increasingly separate and unequal and how the legacy of Brown v. Board of Education has been chipped away.

Foreign Policy, Ruby Mellen, Senate Votes Against Administration on Anti-Abortion Global Gag Rule. The Senate Appropriations Committee voted to overturn the global gag rule and refund the United Nations Population Fund, thanks to support from Sens. Collins and Murkowski and no thanks to a no vote from Sen. Manchin. It still has to pass the full Senate, but it's an interesting step in stopping Trump, and Tillerson.

Axios, Jonathan Swan, Iran deal opponents pave new path for Trump to de-certify. For various technical reasons, the hawks are arguing that Trump must decertify the Iran deal now. There's speculation in here that he'll pull the same maneuver of punting to Congress he just did with DACA, decertifying the deal and waiving the sanctions while telling Congress to figure it out. Because, as we all know, the choice that requires him to take the least amount of interest in what is happening is the one he'll go with.

Politico, Josh Dawsey (who has been on fire lately), Trump, jovial after debt deal, turns meeting into a freewheeling affair, in which the President is in a good mood, for now, but has complaints about the size of his airplane [real]:
With Trump, observers say people often leave meetings feeling as if they have won his approval — only to learn later they haven’t. He often agrees with whomever he speaks to, according to aides and advisers. And the president’s continued good moods — spurred by media coverage and what he sees as progress — could be derailed any minute.
...
One attendee said Trump told the room that the deal would bring in a new bipartisan spirit. “He said after yesterday, we’re going to do things in a bipartisan way,” this person said, describing Trump’s comments. “No one really knows what we announced, but it was bipartisan.”

The president, though, had one gripe, after his visit from the Kuwaiti emir Thursday afternoon. He was very impressed by the emir’s plane but noted that it was longer than his — maybe even by 100 feet.
(Fact check: the Emir of Kuwait reportedly uses an A380-500, which is 222'10" long. Air Force One is 231'10". So perhaps Trump's mood will remain good, at least until the Emir gets a bigger plane.)
posted by zachlipton at 5:27 PM on September 7, 2017 [22 favorites]


I'll do it. I'll be Speaker of the House.
posted by Mister Cheese


Point of order, Speaker Cheese! What's for lunch?
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 5:35 PM on September 7, 2017 [5 favorites]


it's always size
posted by angrycat at 5:36 PM on September 7, 2017 [11 favorites]


I'm going to totally derail this thread and offer what may be the ultimate solution to the sandwich-or-not conundrum, as it was presented to me today:

I go by the centuries old definition original as per No Such Thing as Death by Aardvark. It's not a sandwich unless it has wine in it.

Also it's kinda'a synchronistic historical confluence of the 2 degrees of kevin-bacon-lettuce-and-tomato-butty variety in that there is a sandwich shop in the Florida Disney comivatican called The Earl of Sandwich. Owned by a descendant the originally mis-attributed Earl.
posted by Buntix at 5:41 PM on September 7, 2017 [2 favorites]


Trump Org ethics lawyer's wife busted getting busy with a convict in back seat of her car in the parking lot outside his jail. Also present, one bag of "workout pills" plus miscellaneous other contraband.

Me, earlier: If anyone needs me I'll be refreshing Richard Painter's Twitter

Richard W. Painter @RWPUSA: No comment

Me: ಠ_ಠ
posted by Room 641-A at 6:15 PM on September 7, 2017 [17 favorites]


As I understand it, one of the critical factors in the bakery case, besides the expressive-product/nonexpressive-product discussion, is that there is no definitive ruling yet establishing sexual orientation as a protected class under the relevant laws (mostly the Civil Rights Act, I think). There's an EEOC ruling on employment but no caselaw relevant to whether public accommodations must not discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation (notably, public accommodations are permitted to discriminate on the basis of any non-protected category, so a narrow reading of the CRA could actually allow discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation).
posted by jackbishop at 6:17 PM on September 7, 2017 [1 favorite]




‘You’re a f*cking idiot’: InfoWars reporter stunned after he’s brutally mocked by young girl

At last some good news.
posted by Joey Michaels at 6:22 PM on September 7, 2017 [15 favorites]


it was longer than his — maybe even by 100 feet.

The largest commercial airliner ever produced was only like 20 feet longer than Air F-

Oh God damnit, do you see this? This is what these people do. They just say things. It just comes out of their mouths like air out of a leaky balloon. They don't even bother to form accompanying thoughts. And then while you're trying to process it, they're on to the next thing. And then when you come back having checked the records on the relative size of airplanes like some kind of nerd, they're all like, "Oh, are you still on about airplanes? Who cares about airplanes? haha. What's this guy's problem?" and suddenly YOU feel like the one who's being foolish, trying to evaluate why it was you even exposed yourself to this reckless idiot in the first place. Meanwhile your country creaks under the weight of tons upon tons of their nationalist/nihilist gibberish.

This man. These people. They task me.
posted by Phobos the Space Potato at 6:31 PM on September 7, 2017 [79 favorites]


‘You’re a f*cking idiot’: InfoWars reporter stunned after he’s brutally mocked by young girl

I love this season of "Are You Smarter Than a 13 Year Old?"
posted by rhizome at 6:48 PM on September 7, 2017 [14 favorites]


Charlie Dent has announced he'll retire. Which is too bad; he's been decent. And this area is pretty damn redneck.

I'll eat cake if it flips, but having just been the target of a redneck incident today personally, I'm in no mood to mitigate my application of that term to this area.
posted by Dashy at 7:01 PM on September 7, 2017 [5 favorites]


I apparently have a very different media diet than many of you. I'd listened to multiple hours of people talking about the Magnitsky Act within a week of Junior's initial description of that meeting.

I admit I had heard the words but found the prospect of delving into the detailed reporting daunting. It has been, I think, circulating on the wonkier end of the mainstream Trussia reporting. My brother had to break it down for me, and right after he did it hit WaPo and NPR in easily comprehendable and documented, verifiable form.
posted by Miko at 7:01 PM on September 7, 2017


‘You’re a f*cking idiot’: InfoWars reporter stunned after he’s brutally mocked by young girl

Strong Mormont vibe. I was not disappointed.
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:07 PM on September 7, 2017 [24 favorites]


InfoWars reporter stunned after he’s brutally mocked by young girl

Well, she *did* have a filthy mouth. It's probably all that fluoride in the water.
posted by uosuaq at 7:16 PM on September 7, 2017 [4 favorites]


Since there was some earlier confusion about the motivation of the Russian adoption ban, I thought I'd make a timeline of the ban looking back at contemporary coverage of some of the incidents involved:
2008-9
Death of Dima Yakovlev/Chase Harrison, adoptive father cleared of wrongdoing (previously)
Apr 2010
Artyom Saveliev/Justin Hansen returned to Russia incident (previously)
During media circus led by "Russia's version of Judge Judy", Russia calls for, but does not officially enact, a freeze on US adoption
US and Russia enter into talks to negotiate a new adoption framework
June 2010
During negotiations, US adoption cases continue to move forward in Russian courts according to existing rules, with some reports of extralegal delays
July 2011
Secretary Clinton and Foreign Minister Lavrov Sign Adoption Agreement
July 2012, Russian ratification:
July 10, Russian Duma approves the Agreement
July 18, Russian Federation Council approves the Agreement (pdf)
July 28, President Vladimir Putin signs the Agreement into law
Nov 1, 2012
New adoption agreement goes into force and provides "additional safeguards to better protect the welfare and interests of children and all parties involved in adoptions between the United States and Russia."
Dec 2012
Dec 14, US passes Magnitsky Act
Dec 28, In "retaliation", Russia passes Dima Yakovlev Act, the "Anti-Magnitsky law"
Jan 1, 2013
Adoption ban goes into effect

I think that puts to bed the idea that any tragic adoption-related incidents motivated the Russian adoption ban. Those incidents led to bilateral talks between the US and Russia and after several rounds of negotiations a new adoption framework was successfully enacted on November 1, 2012. This new framework was approved by the Russian Federal Assembly and signed by Vladimir Putin just months before they passed a complete ban on US adoptions. The only thing that changed between July 28 and December 28, 2012 was the Magnitsky Act.

So the adoption ban should be wholly seen as retaliation to the Magnitsky Act and an attempt to create an unwitting anti-sanctions pressure group within the US. It now serves as a fig leaf for Russian interests to lobby against the US sanctions which impede the Russian kleptocracy.
posted by peeedro at 7:25 PM on September 7, 2017 [69 favorites]


Jan 1, 2103
Adoption ban goes into effect

does this mean I can't adopt a replicant
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:30 PM on September 7, 2017 [14 favorites]


Refresh, I caught that right at the end of the edit window :)
posted by peeedro at 7:31 PM on September 7, 2017 [2 favorites]


The weird thing about using the Russian adoption ban as a cover for anti-Magnitsky Act lobbying is that it's barely a cover at all. Maybe a euphemism at best. So, when Don Jr. claimed that his meeting with those Russians wasn't about anything serious or political at all, just adoptions, he had to have been a complete and total fool to think that that would hold up, right? It would be as if someone was being accused of meeting with a drug dealer and saying, "No no no. We didn't talk about drugs at all. He was just wanted to know if we liked to go skiing. And also if we were looking for his friend Molly."
posted by mhum at 7:41 PM on September 7, 2017 [19 favorites]


Jr is either too stupid to know the adoption context, or too stupid to know the cover story would be a tell, or so compromised by Russian contacts/collusion for years that his worldview is essentially controlled by the Kremlin's propaganda operations, and he's too stupid to know it.

My bet is on all three at once.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:46 PM on September 7, 2017 [24 favorites]


I think they're used to a more corrupt environment, where a pathetic fig leaf and a lot of money goes a lot further.
posted by Coventry at 7:53 PM on September 7, 2017 [8 favorites]


On come on, "adoption" is just spy code for "you want to be president, we want to launder money."
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 8:18 PM on September 7, 2017 [4 favorites]


Senate Panel Rejects Trump Plan for Cutting Foreign Assistance (Foreign Policy)

Corey Robin:
Trump gets even more pushback on foreign policy—an area where presidents traditionally have tremendous latitude—from a Congress that is controlled by his own party. I really think people who want to defend the authoritarian presidency thesis need to contend with the fact that in some of the most sacrosanct realms of the hard power of the state, where the executive branch has the most sway, the legislature is asserting itself in a way we haven't seen in a long time, and in the process, containing the president in a way we haven't seen in a long time:

"In a stark repudiation of the Trump administration, lawmakers on Thursday passed a spending bill that overturned the president’s steep proposed cuts to foreign aid and diplomacy....The move signals a growing congressional backlash against the Trump administration’s aims to slash funding for diplomacy, foreign aid, and the United Nations. Among other things, the bill provides over $6 billion for humanitarian assistance — almost $1 billion above the administration’s request. The panel is also restoring $10 million in U.S. funding for the U.N. climate change agency, overruling Trump’s call to end spending on it. In a surprising move, the committee also passed an amendment overturning Trump’s policies limiting funding and access to women’s reproductive healthcare and family planning abroad."
posted by Joseph Gurl at 8:23 PM on September 7, 2017 [40 favorites]


...the answer is Futurama. Specfically America's penultimate worst President, Reagan, Dubya, Robot Nixon.

I've enjoyed seeing the quote in my address bar as I cannot help but read it in Nixon's-head-in-a-jar's voice.
posted by VTX at 8:30 PM on September 7, 2017 [1 favorite]


Dashy: "Charlie Dent has announced he'll retire. Which is too bad; he's been decent. And this area is pretty damn redneck.

I'll eat cake if it flips, but having just been the target of a redneck incident today personally, I'm in no mood to mitigate my application of that term to this area.
"

Eh, I'd say Dent is on the moderate end of the spectrum, but there really are no moderates anymore. The most you can say for Dent is that he doesn't *personally* come up with the crazy ideas. (although see his retirement announcement - he is fully aware the GOP has been hijacked by lunatics).

This is not a slam dunk for a pickup by any means, but it's not a bad shot:

* 18th most vulnerable GOP-held seat (Reichert was 2nd).
* District went 51-48 Romney, 52-44 Trump, but...
* Reg is D +2, and went D for Sen and AG in '12, and only R by a hair for gov in '14.
* Cook Political moving from Solid R to Lean R.

Also - Jonathan Martin at the NYT says he's gotten word from several GOP operatives that there are definitely more retirements coming. I do think this tends to be a snowball effect.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:00 PM on September 7, 2017 [19 favorites]


I find it amazing that Dan Scavino, Director of Social Media, has "Sent from my iPhone" as his signature.

It's an administration of pure incompetence.

(This also makes me think that the much-praised analytics capabilities of the Trump campaign were also wildly overstated.)
posted by Yowser at 9:02 PM on September 7, 2017 [7 favorites]


Nazi-Barbie Tomi Lerhen's great-great-grandfather was an illegal immigrant prosecuted for forging his naturalization papers

Words fail, 2017 can just end right now because the writers can't top this one
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:18 PM on September 7, 2017 [22 favorites]


Evan Osnos went to Pyongyang for the New Yorker, and it's quite the read (perhaps not before bed): The Risk of Nuclear War with North Korea. His thesis, broadly and badly summarized, is that neither side understands each other, Trump and his cabinet are causing even more confusion, and that this level of confusion is what leads to war.
In 1966, Thomas Schelling, the deterrence expert, wrote that brinkmanship hinges, above all, on “beliefs and expectations.” Our grasp of North Korea’s beliefs and expectations is not much better than its grasp of ours. To go between Washington and Pyongyang at this nuclear moment is to be struck, most of all, by how little the two understand each other. In eighteen years of reporting, I’ve never felt as much uncertainty at the end of a project, a feeling that nobody—not the diplomats, the strategists, or the scholars who have devoted their lives to the subject—is able to describe with confidence how the other side thinks. We simply don’t know how Kim Jong Un really regards the use of his country’s nuclear arsenal, or how much North Korea’s seclusion and mythology has distorted its understanding of American resolve. We don’t know whether Kim Jong Un is taking ever-greater risks because he is determined to fulfill his family’s dream of retaking South Korea, or because he is afraid of ending up like Qaddafi.

To some in the Trump Administration, the gaps in our knowledge of North Korea represent an argument against deterrence; they are unwilling to assume that Pyongyang will be constrained by the prospect of mutually assured destruction. But if the alternative is a war with catastrophic costs, then gaps in our knowledge should make a different case. Iraq taught us the cost of going to war against an adversary that we do not fully understand. Before we take a radical step into Asia, we should be sure that we’re not making that mistake again.
posted by zachlipton at 9:32 PM on September 7, 2017 [18 favorites]


New York State Assemblywoman Nily Rozic has introduced a bill to rename Donald Trump State Park to Heather Heyer State Park. Lawmaker: Name Trump park after Charlottesville victim
posted by scalefree at 9:32 PM on September 7, 2017 [88 favorites]


Point of order, Speaker Cheese! What's for lunch?
posted by ThePinkSuperhero


This is many comments back but: Hot dogs topped with spicy cabbage kimchi, seasoned soybean sprouts, and a single of Kraft American cheese. Trust me on the that particular type of cheese. I hope we can return to the more pressing issues of rooting out white supremacy, taking strong action on mitigating and adapting to climate change, streamlining immigration and the path to citizenship, and ensuring our elections are convenient for the participation of all our citizens and free from foreign influence.
posted by Mister Cheese at 10:14 PM on September 7, 2017 [9 favorites]




Jeez, this is the country we live in, now. It just goes to show what a 30-year campaign of misogyny against a strong, intelligent woman - plus an inflamed state of nationalistic racism - can get you.
posted by darkstar at 10:24 PM on September 7, 2017 [6 favorites]


I hope we can return to the more pressing issues of rooting out white supremacy, taking strong action on mitigating and adapting to climate change, streamlining immigration and the path to citizenship, and ensuring our elections are convenient for the participation of all our citizens and free from foreign influence.

After a good, nutritious, satisfying lunch, productivity soars.
posted by mikelieman at 10:27 PM on September 7, 2017 [5 favorites]


The whole story behind that story is very Nero fiddles Spoiler: Even when smoke inhalation stopped the golfers, the golf course owners kept the restaurant open.
posted by Yowser at 10:32 PM on September 7, 2017 [3 favorites]


Magnitude 8 quake just hit S. Mexico.

Possible tsunami. Well-wishes for all involved.
posted by darkstar at 10:38 PM on September 7, 2017 [7 favorites]


From scalefree's link: A 2006 letter from Trump's attorney to the state laid out the terms of the donation, calling for Trump's name to be "prominently displayed" at each entrance to the property, which had to have a "name which includes Mr. Trump's name."

Okay, how about "Fuck Donald J. Trump And His Entire Grifting Family Park"?
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 10:53 PM on September 7, 2017 [42 favorites]


darkstar, I just got the USGS alert. This is after I upped the alert setting because I kept getting texts from that Idaho swarm. (Still going.)

All,of this happening in the same area. They really need a break. So far the videos I'm seeing are mostly calm people . I wouldn't have guessed I'm seeing 8.0 reactions, so maybe that's a good sign.
posted by Room 641-A at 11:01 PM on September 7, 2017 [1 favorite]


Just posted an FPP on the quake, but really hoping nothing much to report out of it. An 8.2 is a real beast.
posted by darkstar at 11:04 PM on September 7, 2017 [2 favorites]


I didn't realize that Hurrican Katia is also right there.
posted by Room 641-A at 11:06 PM on September 7, 2017


Repercussions of Trump's unpredictability only starting. NYT's Jonathan Martin: Two GOP pros msg me to say re: House retirements - this only the start...A third GOP pro texts to say he knows of more. "not all are moderates. Conservatives are tired of this shit too"
posted by scalefree at 11:31 PM on September 7, 2017 [23 favorites]


HOW RIGHT-WING EXTREMISTS STALK, DOX, AND HARASS THEIR ENEMIES (The Intercept)
This article is based solely on chat logs from a community called “Pony Power” (Unicorn Riot published the logs yesterday). The Pony Power server has 50 users, and the chat logs contain just over 1,000 messages, posted over the course of 10 days and ranging in topic from far-right politics to advice about digital and operational security to debates about the legal limits of online behavior. The primary activity on the Pony Power server is posting private information, like names, photos, home addresses, and phone numbers of dozens of anti-fascist activists.

Victims of the outings, also known as “doxing,” described reactions ranging from terror to anger to annoyance, and have variously turned to friends and family for support and locked down their accounts. They said the Pony Power doxing campaign is just the latest in a series of online efforts by neo-Nazis and their allies to marginalize their opponents. The information compiled on Pony Power hasn’t yet been distributed to the larger right-wing extremist community. However, doxing efforts associated with prior online hate campaigns have forced targets to leave their homes in the face of death threats, rape threats, and other forms of harassment. And those attacks were mounted even before President Donald Trump came to power on the back of racist attacks against his predecessor, Mexicans, and Muslims, and before he embraced white nationalists and encouraged violence against protesters at campaign rallies.

People chatting on the Pony Power server spoke openly, as though behind closed doors, often using offensive slurs. So be warned, some of the following conversations are hard to stomach.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 12:03 AM on September 8, 2017 [26 favorites]


Aren't we all glad the FBI took GamerGate seriously, guys? We really dodged a bullet there.
posted by Yowser at 12:11 AM on September 8, 2017 [79 favorites]


At some point, perhaps when the republican party is a smoking ruin, someone is going to realize that "online" is "real" and committing crimes there should carry genuine penalties. Including, perhaps especially, for the corporations which sit idly by as their resources are used to commit those crimes.

Aw, who am I kidding.
posted by maxwelton at 12:21 AM on September 8, 2017 [51 favorites]


At some point, perhaps when the republican party is a smoking ruin, someone is going to realize that "online" is "real" and committing crimes there should carry genuine penalties

Last night, Rachel referred to Facebook as a crime scene. Kind of blew my mind.
posted by Room 641-A at 4:18 AM on September 8, 2017 [29 favorites]


As expected the House Ways and Means Committee just voted against forcing DJT to show his tax returns. They're still protecting him even though he has shown over and over he has no loyalty to the Republican Party. It's a bit much asking the American people to accept tax reform from a guy who will not reveal how much he pays in taxes now and how much the proposed tax cuts will personally save him.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:05 AM on September 8, 2017 [16 favorites]


Seems like Trump is saying enough with trying to repeal Obamacare you losers, go to tax cuts to help my bottom line.

@realDonaldTrump
Republicans, sorry, but I've been hearing about Repeal & Replace for 7 years, didn't happen! Even worse, the Senate Filibuster Rule will....
- ...never allow the Republicans to pass even great legislation. 8 Dems control - will rarely get 60 (vs. 51) votes. It is a Repub Death Wish!
- Republicans must start the Tax Reform/Tax Cut legislation ASAP. Don't wait until the end of September. Needed now more than ever. Hurry!
posted by chris24 at 6:05 AM on September 8, 2017 [14 favorites]


Turns out that GOP Senators don't much like the President talking to them like they are Mar-A-Lago busboys.
posted by thelonius at 6:11 AM on September 8, 2017 [31 favorites]


How long before he punctuates a tweet to Congress with "Chop chop!"?
posted by thelonius at 6:12 AM on September 8, 2017 [36 favorites]


This is the Twitter equivalent of snapping your fingers at the server, and I am pretty sure that it will also end up with someone pissing in Trump's soup.
posted by Etrigan at 6:24 AM on September 8, 2017 [27 favorites]


> Two GOP pros msg me to say re: House retirements - this only the start...

I'd like to think think all those vocal, angry constituents who attended their first recess town halls this year are factoring heavily into these retirement decisions.
posted by klarck at 6:25 AM on September 8, 2017 [20 favorites]


Well, whaddaya know, your dad really was brainwashed: an actual paper in a scholarly journal shows that Fox News has played a major part in tilting American elections to the right (Dylan Matthews, Vox).

I've always believed, and said here on MeFi, that Fox is the brainwashing arm of a cult, but it's nice to have the peer-reviewed, scholarly confirmation. If I could borrow a time-turner and reshape the past, I'd make Fox News not exist.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 6:25 AM on September 8, 2017 [82 favorites]


I'd like to think think all those vocal, angry constituents who attended their first recess town halls this year are factoring heavily into these retirement decisions.

It seemed to have drive Jason Chaffetz into quitting - I'm sure he wasn't counting on angry crowds at his town hall. I bet a lot of other representatives were counting on spouting Tea Party bullshit to adoring crowds and phoning it in from Washington. They didn't think they'd actually have to face consequences or, indeed, do their jobs.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 6:29 AM on September 8, 2017 [8 favorites]


Trump Org ethics lawyer's wife busted getting busy with a convict in back seat of her car in the parking lot outside his jail. Also present, one bag of "workout pills" plus miscellaneous other contraband.


This is the new 'roll up your sleeves' to show that you are a relatable real American in the 2017 political theater season.
posted by srboisvert at 6:49 AM on September 8, 2017 [4 favorites]


Brooke Seipel / TheHill: Bannon: Christie lost cabinet spot after ‘Access Hollywood’ tape release
Former White House chief strategist says New Jersey Governor Chris Christie (R) wasn't considered for a cabinet position in President Trump's administration because he failed to offer support after the infamous and explosive release of a 2005 "Access Hollywood" tape.
This was stated on an interview for CBS' 60 Minutes, Steve Bannon: Trump's leaked "Access Hollywood" tape was a "litmus test"
posted by ZeusHumms at 6:52 AM on September 8, 2017 [12 favorites]


Well, whaddaya know, your dad really was brainwashed: an actual paper in a scholarly journal shows that Fox News has played a major part in tilting American elections to the right (Dylan Matthews, Vox).

My dad is retiring next year. He's a very smart guy but I am worried that he'll "logic" his way into starting to watch Fox News and then slowly but surely into believing it.

Next time they're out of town, I'm going to enable the parental controls on their cable box and block a bunch of random channels they never watch anyway, in addition to Fox News (which I don't think they watch currently, but let's not even start with it). If they ever discover it, they'll just figure, hey, weird, technology amirite? Because, y'all, I am not prepared to deal with cult recruitment in my parents' golden years if I can at all help it. They're already Objectivists, one cult is enough, thanks.

(Meanwhile, the rise of MLM commercial cults in addition to right wing political cults is making me feel like American is just cults all the way down at this point and I don't understand how we got here.)
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:02 AM on September 8, 2017 [58 favorites]


a community called “Pony Power”

Sociopathic stalking and menacing is bad enough by itself, but this means war.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:15 AM on September 8, 2017 [8 favorites]


I'm going to enable the parental controls on their cable box

I love how these can be used either by parents or on parents...
posted by jontyjago at 7:19 AM on September 8, 2017 [45 favorites]


(Meanwhile, the rise of MLM commercial cults in addition to right wing political cults is making me feel like American is just cults all the way down at this point and I don't understand how we got here.)

Well, America was founded by cultists and it's had cults basically all throughout its history, so it's not surprising that there's goddamn cults everywhere. (You've got your Amish and your Mormons, for one thing.)

America's culture of rugged individualism and live-and-let-live also plays a part (no doubt inspired by all the goddamn cults everywhere). One of the key ingredients you need for a cult is a lack of nosy outsiders asking inconvenient questions and expecting accountability and community participation while you're trying to rope people in.
posted by Merus at 7:19 AM on September 8, 2017 [11 favorites]


That article quantifies what we already knew about Fox News, but I am still really interested in understanding better the psychological mechanisms deployed - and I mean by going beyond the obvious "gut" level ("they use fear!") to explore the particular language, triggers, etc that have actual impact on viewers' worldview.
posted by Miko at 7:23 AM on September 8, 2017 [4 favorites]


Well, America was founded by cultists

America was founded to make money; the religious refugees and utopian zealots were a part of migration, sure, but always always money was the center ring.
posted by thelonius at 7:25 AM on September 8, 2017 [2 favorites]


America was founded to make money; the religious refugees and utopian zealots were a part of migration, sure, but always always money was the center ring.

And what cult is bigger and more powerful than the Cult of Mammon?
posted by Faint of Butt at 7:27 AM on September 8, 2017 [14 favorites]


Following such hits as "It's Always Too Early To Talk About Gun Control, But Especially After Mass Shootings," "Gun-Toting Nazis Are Just Exercising The Free Speech Unarmed Protesters Want To Deny Them," and "The Real Fascists Are People Who Call Themselves Anti-Fascists," The Conservative Assholes have a new release out, titled "Talking About Climate Change Is ‘Insensitive’ To Floridians"!

Available now at your local white supremacist hangout, conveniently located in every facet of society that surrounds you!
posted by zombieflanders at 7:30 AM on September 8, 2017 [49 favorites]


The Hill: Frankenstein-Frankenstein's Monster Relationship Reaches New Low
“It was a little bit of a surprise to everybody,” said Senate Republican Whip John Cornyn (Texas), McConnell’s top deputy.

When asked about his colleagues’ views that the relationship between the president and GOP leaders is at an all-time low, Cornyn replied, “I think you have some unique personalities involved.”
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:31 AM on September 8, 2017 [3 favorites]


For reasons beyond my ken the Washington Post has been running a column by the aw-shucks publisher of a dinky Ohio newspaper who defends Trump's every move. Here's his latest:

Trump struggles with empathy. So what?
Observing all the hand-wringing over the president’s emotional deficiencies are Trump supporters who come from America’s heartland and who, by and large, are outwardly stoic by nature. They do not wear their emotions on their sleeves. They greet strangers with a subtle nod rather than a showy hug or kiss on the cheek. A parent’s response to a child’s bump or bruise is a quick rub, a pat on the head and a prescription to run along. As they do everywhere, people love each other deeply, but their public displays of affection won’t nauseate any bystanders. Outwardly, the emotional model is more Gary Cooper, less Al Pacino.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:32 AM on September 8, 2017 [1 favorite]



Trump struggles with empathy. So what?


In this column: a total misunderstanding of what "empathy" means, as well as someone who has clearly never witnessed video of Donald Trump interacting with anyone.

The man isn't "stoic." He's the opposite of stoic.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:38 AM on September 8, 2017 [55 favorites]


Yeeeeaaaah, my take on it is that Midwesterners don't have any easy time expressing strong emotions. They don't struggle with empathy. They just show it by doing things, rather than by talking about it.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 7:39 AM on September 8, 2017 [8 favorites]


Some links I think are worth sharing...

I know Bannon isn't in the White House anymore, but he is still dangerous. And obnoxious. Bannon: Catholic Bishops support DACA because “they need illegal aliens to fill the churches”
Bannon told Charlie Rose, “The bishops have been terrible about this. By the way, you know why? You know why? Because unable to really — to — to — to come to grips with the problems in the church, they need illegal aliens, they need illegal aliens to fill the churches.”

Bannon, currently the executive chairman of Breitbart News and a practicing Catholic, then went on to accuse the Catholic Church of needing illegal immigrants for economic support. “They have — they have an economic interest. They have an economic interest in unlimited immigration, unlimited illegal immigration,” he said.
(Bannon is allied with a faction within the church led by Cardinal Burke. The American bishops have tended to be sympathetic to this faction, whereas European bishops and American nuns are less so. This is American bishops siding with the nuns and foreigners for once, and I am curious what effect Bannon criticizing the American bishops will have on the intra-church politics.)

We need political parties. But their rabid partisanship could destroy American democracy. by Lee Drutman at Vox

(This is long and very insightful, but starts out by imagining a close Trump/Harris race in 2020 that ends with Donald Trump refusing to concede, which I found upsetting to read!)
If polarization were simply a matter of parties negotiating on behalf of competing economic interest groups and allocating federal dollars, it follows that there are deals to be made (and plenty of earmarks!). Under such a politics, political leaders of both parties can trade roads and bridges over whisky cocktails at after-hours parties. Different sides might offer different perspectives, creating contrasts for voters. But at the end of the day, everyone understands that there are no permanent winners or losers — just temporary electoral swings. This is normal “interest-group politics,” in the jargon of political scientists.

When division involves purity and impurity, when it devolves into a pure contest between “us” and “them” — then there is no bargaining, because there are no negotiable principles, just team loyalties. “We” are good and pure, while “they” are evil and corrupt. And, of course, you cannot compromise with evil and corrupt. The preferred cocktails of such a politics are of the Molotov variety, and the roads and bridges are not to be traded, but to be burned.

This is doom-loop partisanship, because it contains many reinforcing dynamics that can quickly spiral out of control.

American politics has been transitioning from interest-group politics to doom-loop politics for decades, and we are now deep into a crisis.
Also I think it is worth noting in an election thread that almost two thirds of American adults (probably almost everyone who holds loans or a credit card) have now had their credit records stolen by hackers. Name, Birthday, Social Security Number, address, and in some cases drivers' license number.

Credit reporting firm Equifax says data breach could potentially affect 143 million US consumers

It seems to me that this cannot possibly help with efforts to secure our elections and voter registration systems.
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:42 AM on September 8, 2017 [24 favorites]


Thank you, soren-lorensen, for describing the problems with that column more succinctly and with far less profanity than what I would be capable of this morning.
posted by nubs at 7:43 AM on September 8, 2017 [1 favorite]


Trump struggles with empathy. So what?

He does not struggle, he simply has literally none.
posted by scalefree at 7:53 AM on September 8, 2017 [15 favorites]


Well, whaddaya know, your dad really was brainwashed: an actual paper in a scholarly journal shows that Fox News has played a major part in tilting American elections to the right

"Donald Trump is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I've ever known in my life."

I think about this often: My dad and I had a lot of political disagreements over the years—he was more of a Cold War liberal and I was more of a post-Cold War liberal (I can only imagine what he would've made of Russian interference in a US election: "Never trust the Russians, son.")—but we shared some basic ground of communication. Unlike many children, I never visited dreading a discussion of politics or news.
Outwardly, the emotional model is more Gary Cooper, less Al Pacino."
The emotional model is more Larry Linville, less Gary Cooper or Al Pacino.
posted by octobersurprise at 7:53 AM on September 8, 2017 [7 favorites]


Just listened to the Washington Post podcast, Can He Do That? for Sept. 8. They interviewed John Sandweg, former Immigration and Customs Enforcement acting director about the ICE policy under Obama and I learned a few things:

1.) If you are here on an expired visa and marry a US citizen you can apply for a Green card without leaving the country as both Trump's wife and my ex-spouse did. However if you are here undocumented you must leave the country before applying for a Green card when you marry a US citizen and that is why we are seeing so many stories about ICE deporting spouses of US citizens.

2.) Everyone, including the undocumented, is entitled to a legal hearing before being deported with a very few exceptions (Sandweg did not cover the exceptions.) At the present only about 200,000 people per year are sentenced to deportation because that is all the courts can handle. The backlog is 6 to 7 years, meaning if ICE increases the arrests they will only increase the numbers in prison.

3.) Leaving the country and "getting in line" for legal immigration can mean in some Latin American countries a wait of 20 years.

4.) There is no doubt that the DACA program was both legal and Constitutional. It was heavily vetted by both in-house and non-affiliated lawyers.

Also in the interview with a Dreamer I learned that if your Green Card sponsor dies before your paperwork is completed, you must leave the country. The person interviewed was brought here from Pakistan at age 11 by her parents and they were sponsored by her grandparents, both of whom died. She and her parents were then supposed to return to Pakistan but her parents were fearful of the violence so they made the decision to stay illegally.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:59 AM on September 8, 2017 [46 favorites]


Ye gods, I don't know if it's been posted before, but Donald Trumps handshake, ah, proclivities has its own Wikipedia page (spotlit on the front page, today, no less!).

Also from Wikipedia, some text that may please Trump's notorious competitiveness with his predecesor: The page "Obama handshakes" does not exist.
posted by Gelatin at 8:02 AM on September 8, 2017 [5 favorites]


but I am still really interested in understanding better the psychological mechanisms deployed

One of the key psychological dynamics - mentioned on the Blue as well as elsewhere - that is especially powerful in drawing in and cementing tribal cohesion is the risk-reward cycle when a member of the tribe is threatened by some outrageous event or out-group person and then the threat is overcome by the tribe, leaving the tribe members soothed and reassured.

I'm sure there are social scientists, psychologists and/or anthropologists that could more expertly describe this phenomenon. But once I started noticing it, I now see it everywhere.

We see it in all kinds of art and entertainment: the "Two Minute Hate" in Brave New World is perhaps the most glaring example, but the plots of every detective fiction show and superhero movie follows the same arc, and it can be seen in even more subtle modes of entertainment across the spectrum, really. It's a key dynamic in many political speeches, too, because it works so well.

The formula is followed expertly well by Fox (and frankly, by many other news punditry outlets, some of which are liberal). Namely, the host(s) will first introduce the "news" about some outrageous insult to the audience's shared values, skewing it in such a way as to achieve maximum outrage. Then, when the audience's anger is at a froth, they'll "bring out" some commentator or panel to completely refute the opposing side's views and values.

The audience is left with a three-minute arc going from learning about some new thing, being whipped into a frenzy about it, then having respected members of their tribe vocalize that outrage and smack down the threat, and then feeling reassured that although there are crazy evil people in the world, the viewer's in-group has it under control and is protecting them from a dangerous world.

It's a seductive, addicting process for the psyche to be exposed repeatedly, constantly to this sort of threat-then-reassurance stimulus over time.

(Really, we are all susceptible to it. It's probably a big part of the psychology of why our own Megathread, while offering daily outrage, is nevertheless both so compelling and reassuring. We're human beings, after all, and this tribalism dynamic is coded pretty deeply into our psyches.)

But Fox (and Limbaugh, and Alex Jones, etc.) are particularly pernicious in the way they exploit this human tendency, because the outrages Fox foments are either outright deceitful or are geared with the intent to protect and salve the autocratic, the powerful and the privileged, while attacking and demonizing those generally without power or privilege in our society. It's basically hacking the social mind in order to harm, misinform, and perpetuate inequality.
posted by darkstar at 8:02 AM on September 8, 2017 [97 favorites]


Next time they're out of town, I'm going to enable the parental controls on their cable box and block a bunch of random channels they never watch anyway, in addition to Fox News (which I don't think they watch currently, but let's not even start with it).

I wish I would have thought of that when my dad retired. He was always a Buckley-type conservative, but not the wing-nut he became after years of slack-jawed viewing of Ailes's toxic stew of O'Reilly, Hannity, et al., which led him to Limbaugh and worse. As we saw with Ben Carson, being a neurosurgeon is no protection against brainwashing.
posted by Mental Wimp at 8:07 AM on September 8, 2017 [8 favorites]


Fantastic comment darkstar! For those who didn't read it at the time, more detail along those lines can be found in Tobin Smith's account of what it was like to be a Fox News contributor.
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:08 AM on September 8, 2017 [9 favorites]


Drutman's piece is not all that insightful, because he chooses to engage in classic Broderism, framing the issue of partisanship as a problem due to both sides, while determinedly avoiding that large elephant labeled "white supremacy" in the middle of the room. Case in point, he tries to equate the Republicans attacking Obama's legitimacy via racism to Democrats rightfully pointing out that Trump barely won the Electoral College.

If you're not willing to confront the underlying cause of the partisanship here today, you're never going to actually understand it.
posted by NoxAeternum at 8:08 AM on September 8, 2017 [11 favorites]


Oh, I think he acknowledges that the cause is "White identity politics" at least. And white supremacists were also the cause of the first American civil war, of course. Ethnic conflicts are the cause of many if not most civil wars, I think. But knowing that does not exactly tell us how to prevent them, which I think is the question Drutman is interested in.
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:15 AM on September 8, 2017


(Meanwhile, the rise of MLM commercial cults in addition to right wing political cults is making me feel like American is just cults all the way down at this point and I don't understand how we got here.)

It seems to me like the rise of the MLM cults are connected, somehow, with the rise of Fox and other right-wing outlets, even though many people buying into MLMs aren't Republican and didn't vote for Trump (and not all are white, when it comes down to it).

When I was growing up, there was Tupperware, Avon, Amway, and Mary Kay - Amway is definitely culty, Mary Kay borderline, but Tupperware and Avon weren't, they were more a way for women to earn a little extra cash on the side selling basically OK-to-good products that people needed.

But now, MLM's are everywhere, and it's not just "hey, buy my essential oils, they smell good, and lavender is soothing and might help you sleep" to "buy my essential oils, they cure cancer, athlete's foot, chronic fatigue, and Merlin's crotch-itch!" "buy these leggings, they're a way of life!" It's way beyond selling some perfume in a cute decanter and some containers for leftovers. It's more like a religion.

I think that we left behind insular towns, communities, and neighborhoods, and (in many cases) organized religion, for very good reasons, but not a lot replaced them, so MLM's and Fox rushed in to fill the need for people who crave structure and close relationships but can't create them otherwise. And in this previous thread on MLM's, it was noted that the post-Great Recession concentration of jobs in fewer cities left people in smaller towns and cities high and dry and desperate for any way to make a living - and in come the MLM's to take advantage of that.

tl;dr "it's complicated and no easy answers."
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 8:16 AM on September 8, 2017 [24 favorites]


Drutman's piece is not all that insightful, because he chooses to engage in classic Broderism, framing the issue of partisanship as a problem due to both sides

There are several points in the article where you can almost literally see him restrain himself from referencing the many, many studies showing the polarization and partisanship being hugely lop-sided towards conservatives. And as if to bold, italicize, and underline the point:
@kaitlancollins: The House passes the hurricane relief package that raises debt ceiling & keeps the government open, 316-90. All 90 no votes were Republicans
Anyone, be it on Vox, or here, or anywhere else, that is trying to push the line that "both sides do it" over the political reality is engaging in some serious bad-faith arguments.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:19 AM on September 8, 2017 [53 favorites]


Then, when the audience's anger is at a froth, they'll "bring out" some commentator or panel to completely refute the opposing side's views and values.

You are correct that this is just as much an element of liberal and left media as right, and it drives me fucking bonkers. My Facebook feed is full of Dem and left shares with headlines like "Watch Kamala Harris destroy [whoever]!!!" and "Boom! [Whoever] left speechless by Bernie!"

I really really do not like to feel anger. I mean, I feel it, I can't help but feel it, if you're not angry you're not paying attention, but I don't like it. I don't seek it out, or seek to increase it. As Thich Nhat Hanh said, I don't want to invite it in for tea. But so many people around me seem to really thrive off that feeling and create social lubricant using that feeling, and it disturbs me in a really visceral ookie-skin-crawly-feeling way. My parents are both really prone to just going off on tears about various random other segments of humanity (not race-based or any of your typical -isms, just like... people who [do whatever relatively harmless though sometimes mildly annoying thing]) and it makes me want to jump out a window every time they start, because I don't want to spend my leisure time vocally condemning anyone who isn't actively harming others. It's not a respectability politics thing--I will always get shouty to condemn Nazis--but I don't want to create any more of that feeling than I already have on the daily. It doesn't feel good to me. It doesn't make me ready for social cohesion. It just makes me want to go lie down and never talk to anyone again.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:20 AM on September 8, 2017 [45 favorites]




It seems to me like the rise of the MLM cults are connected, somehow, with the rise of Fox and other right-wing outlets

We literally elected a con artist and would-be perpetrator of several failed pyramid schemes as President. And then he put the Amway family in charge of education. It's definitely connected.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:22 AM on September 8, 2017 [52 favorites]


to be a pedant, the two minutes of hate was in 1984, not brave new world.

Argh! Of course.

Pedantry most appreciated.
posted by darkstar at 8:30 AM on September 8, 2017 [7 favorites]


> It seems to me like the rise of the MLM cults are connected, somehow, with the rise of Fox and other right-wing outlets,

The Long Con: Mail-order conservatism

Eye on the Pyramids (three part series)

This Bizarre Convention Speaker Is a Big Reminder That the GOP Is the Party of Scams
posted by tonycpsu at 8:37 AM on September 8, 2017 [23 favorites]


to be a pedant, the two minutes of hate was in 1984, not brave new world.

We have always been at war with Aldous Huxley.
posted by Etrigan at 8:45 AM on September 8, 2017 [28 favorites]


Talking Points Memo: Pruitt To CNN: Talking About Climate Change Is ‘Insensitive’ To Floridians

The NRA knows that talking about the causes of gun violence is inappropriate when we should be mourning the victims of gun violence. The more gun violence there is, the less opportunity we have to sensitively discuss the causes of gun violence, and so gun violence will increase and discussion of its causes will be eliminated, bringing joy to all. Now the NRA is the teacher, and the EPA is the student.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:47 AM on September 8, 2017 [18 favorites]


Anyone, be it on Vox, or here, or anywhere else, that is trying to push the line that "both sides do it" over the political reality is engaging in some serious bad-faith arguments.

I agree.
Unfortunately, accurate recounting of specific Republicans politicians and politicos working to undermine systems of political trust will be regarded as "biased" by 1) fools and 2) deliberate bad-faith actors.
The accurate portrayal of an unequal situation will itself appear unbalanced. And our society's overriding irrational preference for "balance" in media is used to cover for the continued exploitation by specific Republican politicians and politicos.

In conclusion
, both sides are the same.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 8:50 AM on September 8, 2017 [2 favorites]


It seems to me like the rise of the MLM cults are connected, somehow, with the rise of Fox and other right-wing outlets, even though many people buying into MLMs aren't Republican and didn't vote for Trump (and not all are white, when it comes down to it).

Aren't a LOT of MLM's, especially above the first sucker level, overwhelmingly white and evangelical?
posted by Pope Guilty at 8:55 AM on September 8, 2017 [2 favorites]


Pruitt To CNN: Talking About Climate Change Is ‘Insensitive’ To Floridians

To bring this back to my Unified Theory of Cults: not talking about bad things is also a component in MLMs and prosperity gospel hucksters. You are never ever EVER to speak of "negative" things. If something negative is happening, you're supposed to lie about it. Not acknowledging them activates a special kind of magic (it is literally magical thinking) that makes the bad thing go away.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:56 AM on September 8, 2017 [25 favorites]


In conclusion, both sides are the same.

Sorry, I just want to pull-quote that Drutman piece at Vox one more time, since there was an objection that it didn't accurately identify white supremacists as the cause of the problem...
This may be the most important schism of all: White Christian America, once dominant, realizes it is dominant no more. Now it competes, almost equally, with the multiracial secular America.

It’s this moment of slippage that creates a the most pressing threat. During the 2016 election, Donald Trump played directly to fears of diminishing white prestige
...
It can be illuminating — and terrifying — to put white ethnic resentment into the context of ethnic resentment in other nations. In a transnational study of ethnic violence, MIT political scientist Roger Petersen found that a major risk factor for ethnic violence was anger stemming from “the feeling of being politically dominated by a group that has no right to be in a superior position.” Typically, that occurs when an ethnic group that was formally subordinate achieves new status and power.

Considering the horrific ethnic violence that other nations have seen — in Yugoslavia, for example, just two decades ago — it is truly chilling to note that (mostly white) anti-government militias in the US grew from 42 in 2008 to 276 in 2016. Gun sales under Obama more than doubled.
It's worth doing a ctrl-f on "white" to see the other comments he makes on this. But putting American "whites" in this context -- an ethnicity which resents people of other ethnicities -- makes you see the resemblance, not just to Nazis or confederates, but to to Hutus who hate Tutsis in Rwanda or Serbs who hate Croats. I mean we're not that special. Our ethnic conflicts are as horrific and senseless as anyone else's. How do we stop it?

The side that enslaves or attempts genocide against the other is in the wrong. No question that both sides were the same in the Rwandan civil war, the Bosnian genocide, or the American civil war, or the current conflict, I think. One side has crossed a moral line and become the "bad guys" in each of those cases. So... what? This is a pattern in human events. How do we stop it from happening to us again? Or is trying to prevent civil wars a bad idea? Because sometimes the "good guys" win and the world becomes a better place and the only way that could have happened was through war, with all its horrors and atrocities? But sometimes, also, the "bad guys" win. I don't know the answer in general, I guess. I know I think there's hope for positive social change in America right now through peaceful means, though, and I would prefer that if possible.
posted by OnceUponATime at 9:04 AM on September 8, 2017 [24 favorites]


To bring this back to my Unified Theory of Cults: not talking about bad things is also a component in MLMs and prosperity gospel hucksters. You are never ever EVER to speak of "negative" things. If something negative is happening, you're supposed to lie about it. Not acknowledging them activates a special kind of magic (it is literally magical thinking) that makes the bad thing go away.

Barbara Ehrenreich's Bright-Sided is all about this phenomenon. Review and excerpt here, and here is Ehrenreich with Jon Stewart in this Daily Show clip.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 9:05 AM on September 8, 2017 [12 favorites]




MetaFilter: Pedantry most appreciated.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:07 AM on September 8, 2017 [10 favorites]


Oh the huge manatee ...

Limbaugh to evacuate after calling Irma climate change ploy
posted by octobersurprise at 9:12 AM on September 8, 2017 [47 favorites]




The URL slug for that article is pretty much the worst:
https://www.vox.com/identities/2017/9/8/16270040/trump-clinton-supporters-racist

The fucking subtitle is: "In contrast, Clinton supporters seemed unmoved by racial cues."
posted by Behemoth at 9:18 AM on September 8, 2017 [15 favorites]




The accurate portrayal of an unequal situation will itself appear unbalanced. And our society's overriding irrational preference for "balance" in media is used to cover for the continued exploitation by specific Republican politicians and politicos.

The funny thing is, our society does not have an overriding preference for balance in the media. Newspapers in the Revolutionary era unabashedly took sides; muckrakers sold lots of papers in the '20s, and William Randolph Hearst made a fortune selling sensationalism.

The standard that evolved was not "balance" but objectivity. The problem for conservatives was that objective reporting tended not to favor them So while constructing the myth of the so-called "liberal media," they began crying for a different standard, one that favored their point of view -- teaching the Biblical creation story in public schools, for example -- "balance." An unfortunately, the media seems to have imagined, for some reason, that those arguments were made in good faith, and began providing a national megaphone for a lot of abject nonsense. Providing balance favored viewpoints that are objectively untrue, like climate change denial, anti-vax hysteria, and the notion that tax cuts pay for themselves.

But what happened when conservatives gained power in the media? They created Fox News, which used balance as a slogan -- implying the other media was not fair -- but in reality providing anything but. And Trump relied on a conservative media that are unabashed propaganda mills. The conservative media proves that balance was never their objective; propelling conservative frames was.

Why the media still falls for conservatives' bad faith arguments, I can't fathom. But since conservatives have no other kind, the media have to if they're to provide "balance."
posted by Gelatin at 9:21 AM on September 8, 2017 [41 favorites]


Imani Gandy (@AngryBlackLady): ... the fuck she is. Three words: Ruth. Bader. Ginsberg.

ABL is the best, been a fan since she was writing for Balloon Juice.
posted by octothorpe at 9:37 AM on September 8, 2017 [12 favorites]


I just watched part of the Chaffetz town hall. He really is a cruel customer. Which we already knew.

I'm kind of shocked to find out he's also an anti-vaxxer, though. That was unexpected.
posted by Yowser at 9:42 AM on September 8, 2017 [3 favorites]


CNN (@CNN): Ivanka Trump has spoken little about her faith, but she is undeniably America’s most powerful Jewish woman

Imani Gandy (@AngryBlackLady): ... the fuck she is. Three words: Ruth. Bader. Ginsberg.


Yeah no shit. What can Ivanka do? "Please please daddy don't destroy the planet?" "I love it when you call me daddy, but I'm going to do it anyway" seems to be the pattern so far
posted by dis_integration at 9:43 AM on September 8, 2017 [25 favorites]


How do we stop it from happening to us again?

Step one is, of course, admitting that a problem actually exists. Just because he does bring up white supremacy doesn't change that Drutman engages in a false balance argument throughout the piece. He starts off by jumping into the tired "tribalism" argument (and if there's any idea that needs to go die in a fire, it's that one), and throughout the piece tries to make the argument that hyperpartisanship is the result of the parties no longer having common ground, seasoned liberally with "tribalism" concepts; rather than actually addressing that what has happened is that white supremacy coming under fire has placed pressure on a political system where it had been a core component.
posted by NoxAeternum at 9:43 AM on September 8, 2017 [5 favorites]


Vicente Fox warns Trump that, uh, his job performance is poor: https://twitter.com/VicenteFoxQue/status/905915211269451777 (Stick around for the whole video!)

Despite the evidence of our own president's behavior in the past year, I cannot believe that a former head of state would post this on social media.
posted by wenestvedt at 9:53 AM on September 8, 2017 [51 favorites]


Let's restart that whole North American Union idea. Fox can be President, Trudeau can be PM and I'm sure we can find a janitorial position somewhere for Trump.

[not janitor-ist, I've kind of enjoyed those jobs myself. But I'm fairly comfortable in my own head.]
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:00 AM on September 8, 2017 [6 favorites]


the tired "tribalism" argument (and if there's any idea that needs to go die in a fire, it's that one)

While Drutman's causations/conclusions may be questionable (I haven't read his work), I do find tribalism to be a rather compelling and useful concept for explaining a lot of human behavior - especially as it pertains to social interactions between groups. So I wouldn't want to throw out the concept because some may have used it inaptly.
posted by darkstar at 10:01 AM on September 8, 2017 [3 favorites]


I'm kind of shocked to find out he's also an anti-vaxxer, though. That was unexpected.

It definitely should not be unexpected. It's part and parcel of the "if you're sick, it's because you're bad and wrong and a sinner and probably had a negative thought" attitude. Sickness isn't caused by germs, it's caused by sin, etc.... If you bring your kids up to be godly and good and happy! all! the! time! Don't let Baby Jesus catch you frowning!!!!! then they won't need vaccines.
posted by soren_lorensen at 10:05 AM on September 8, 2017 [2 favorites]


Despite the evidence of our own president's behavior in the past year, I cannot believe that a former head of state would post this on social media.

Vicente Fox is 75, probably has no real plans to run for office again, and really fucking loathes Donald Trump. (Fox is also an actual, self-made businessman who went from driving CocaCola delivery trucks to running their entire Latin American operations. And dude is 6'4" with the hands to match.)
posted by nathan_teske at 10:06 AM on September 8, 2017 [37 favorites]


(Stick around for the whole video!)

I did. My stomach hurts from laughing, and now I want refried beans and margaritas.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 10:06 AM on September 8, 2017 [6 favorites]


rather than actually addressing that what has happened is that white supremacy coming under fire has placed pressure on a political system where it had been a core component.

I think he absolutely addresses that. But what is the solution? If "white people" are the cause of all our problems (and I'm willing to admit we are, at the moment) then what? Get rid of white people? Not a good solution! Get rid of "white supremacy"? Great. How? (That is really just a special case of "tribalism." Maybe you don't like framing loyalty to a political party as tribalism, but for Republicans at this point, is loyalty to party and loyalty to race all that separable? And for Democrats, is loyalty to party and opposition to white supremacy all that separable? "Tribalism" covers both kinds of loyalty.)

Spoilers for the long article -- his suggested solutions are 1) replace winner take-all congressional districts with the Fair Vote system 2) Restore power to the legislative branch and 3) campaign finance reform.

How realistic those solutions are, and what it would take to achieve them, are separate questions. But I think they are at least constructive suggestions for solutions to the problem which he accurately identifies as white ethno-nationalism.
posted by OnceUponATime at 10:07 AM on September 8, 2017 [1 favorite]


Despite the evidence of our own president's behavior in the past year, I cannot believe that a former head of state would post this on social media.

Donny Boy brings out the best in foreign former heads of state. From a few days ago about NK from the former Sweden PM and most recently longtime FM.

@carlbildt
I guess Donald Trump is now preparing to launch a tweet. It will lift off in smoke and fire, and then with a roar disappear into nowhere.
posted by chris24 at 10:17 AM on September 8, 2017 [10 favorites]


Does Vincente Fox write his own stuff? Because that was long and glorious and I'm thinking he missed his true calling.
posted by angrycat at 10:17 AM on September 8, 2017 [17 favorites]


What was the perception of Vicente Fox among Mexicans when he was president of Mexico? Was he this sharp-tongued and witty, or was he boring until he was out of office and could then speak freely?
posted by wenestvedt at 10:20 AM on September 8, 2017 [3 favorites]


I do find tribalism to be a rather compelling and useful concept for explaining a lot of human behavior - especially as it pertains to social interactions between groups. So I wouldn't want to throw out the concept because some may have used it inaptly.

That's the problem - it's a convenient theory that makes it easy to dismiss the actual interaction between groups as just being due to "tribal" dynamics, instead of actually looking at why those interactions exist. And by dismissing the underlying arguments, it becomes easy to write off such conflicts from a "both sides are the problem" position, because you've decided that the fact that the conflict exists is the actual problem, and not the underlying causes causing it.

That is really just a special case of "tribalism." Maybe you don't like framing loyalty to a political party as tribalism, but for Republicans at this point, is loyalty to party and loyalty to race all that separable? And for Democrats, is loyalty to party and opposition to white supremacy all that separable? "Tribalism" covers both kinds of loyalty.

And this here is the sort of sloppy thinking that "tribalism" encourages, because instead of focusing on what it means that white identity politics has become so damn prevalent as a point of political identification, instead the argument becomes about "loyalty" and how that impedes "understanding" between both sides. (Let's also not forget that the "tribalism" argument carries an implicit disdain for that "loyalty" as well, and an implication of mindlessness.)
posted by NoxAeternum at 10:23 AM on September 8, 2017 [13 favorites]


A little musical inspiration this Friday: Hear Abigail Washburn, Bela Fleck's Election Reply 'Don't Let It Bring You Down'
posted by jazon at 10:25 AM on September 8, 2017 [2 favorites]


CNN (@CNN): Ivanka Trump has spoken little about her faith, but she is undeniably America’s most powerful Jewish woman

In addition to RBG, I'd put at least a half dozen other Jewish women in government and business ahead of her as well, including Barbara Boxer and Dianne Feinstein.
posted by rbellon at 10:26 AM on September 8, 2017 [39 favorites]


To bring this back to my Unified Theory of Cults: not talking about bad things is also a component in MLMs and prosperity gospel hucksters. You are never ever EVER to speak of "negative" things. If something negative is happening, you're supposed to lie about it. Not acknowledging them activates a special kind of magic (it is literally magical thinking) that makes the bad thing go away.

In the ex-cult counseling world this is called "thought stopping", it's a widely recognized technique for cult mind control.
posted by scalefree at 10:29 AM on September 8, 2017 [33 favorites]


What we need to get rid of white supremacy is more tribalism, not less - people need to identify with something, and the US has worked hard to remove a lot of the community features that used to provide a sense of identity and culture. We also need a reduction of US exceptionalism, but that's not based on the strength of group identities.

Many people live in one city or town and work in another, many miles away. Companies no longer inspire loyalty and community--too many contractors; too many buyout-and-purges. Urban residents often don't know thier neighbors.Their extended families are a handful of uncles, aunts and grandparents, not a web of dozens or hundreds of people who get together on major holidays to share each other's lives. They have friends in school as teenagers, more friends in college, and then start losing connections to other people. (How many of the flag-carring wannabe nazis are upper-middle-class city-dwellers?)

All that is exacerbated by an internet that encourages connections with random people scattered around the globe, and a myth of "bootstrap individualism" that discourages relationships not based on commerce or romance. We end up with white supremacists because we have too many white people who don't identify with anything other than being white.

There's plenty of other reasons - the world has always had wannabe tyrant assholes. But the increasing lack of community connections and unstable career options feed right into the white supremacy mythology. Over and over, we see stories about "I joined a white supremacist group because they welcomed me; they gave me a community to belong to."

There's no easy fix for this, and certainly no large-scale one; this is fixed, one little pocket at a time, by individual, almost always local, communities.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 10:32 AM on September 8, 2017 [11 favorites]


because you've decided that the fact that the conflict exists is the actual problem, and not the underlying causes causing it.

I mean, I guess that's the question. Is it a problem that conflict (potentially violent) exists? Or is it only a problem if the wrong side is winning?

I'm taking the pacifist position here because that's more suited to my nature, but I do see the moral problems with pacificism. It's Elie Wiesel's "We must take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim" argument. Pacifism -- saying conflict is always bad -- kind of requires neutrality, which indeed does not help victims.

However. I think it is possible to take sides in a conflict and still seek peaceful resolutions of that conflict. And I think that is what Drutman is doing here (and me too.) The article is more focused on the "what kinds of peaceful resolutions might we find" part than the "taking sides" part, but I don't think there's any doubt that he thinks one side is driving the conflict. But still there is a conflict, and we will either resolve it peacefully or... not.

He puts the question he is trying to answer this way:
Is there an alternative to the slow-motion descent and disintegration I’ve just described? If there is, we’ll have to confront that our divisions are real, and that there’s no “moving past identity politics” within a political system in which partisan conflict is fundamentally organized around identity — white identity most definitely included.
What we need to get rid of white supremacy is more tribalism, not less - people need to identify with something

I think humanism can stand in for tribalism.
posted by OnceUponATime at 10:35 AM on September 8, 2017 [9 favorites]


What we need to get rid of white supremacy is more tribalism, not less - people need to identify with something, and the US has worked hard to remove a lot of the community features that used to provide a sense of identity and culture.

White supremacy was both more pervasive and powerful in the past, when all of things you cite as causes hadn't happened yet.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 10:37 AM on September 8, 2017 [11 favorites]


In addition to RBG, I'd put at least a half dozen other Jewish women in government and business ahead of her as well, including Barbara Boxer and Dianne Feinstein

ELENA KAGAN! And, from beyond the grave, Bella Abzug, who forgot more about hats than trump will ever know.
posted by Room 641-A at 10:41 AM on September 8, 2017 [15 favorites]


Does Vincente Fox write his own stuff? Because that was long and glorious and I'm thinking he missed his true calling.


On Fox's desk are a "covfefe" coffee mug, a VHS tape labeled "Pee Tape", and a fake Time magazine with the headline "Vincent Fox throws a baseball over the moon".
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 10:43 AM on September 8, 2017 [38 favorites]


SNL should hire Vicente Fox. That video was funnier than half of SNL's stuff, and theyve been on a bit of a roll lately.
posted by Room 641-A at 10:44 AM on September 8, 2017 [12 favorites]


On Fox's desk are a "covfefe" coffee mug, a VHS tape labeled "Pee Tape", and a fake Time magazine with the headline "Vincent Fox throws a baseball over the moon".
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 12:43 on September 8 [+] [!]


Someone needs to write a piece on how VHS still persists even though being obsolete for over a decade now. I think SNL also used a VHS to reference the pee tape.

Could you imagine if it actually was on VHS? Who would even have a VCR to watch it?
posted by fluttering hellfire at 10:49 AM on September 8, 2017 [2 favorites]


Outwardly, the emotional model is more Gary Cooper, less Al Pacino.

Ah yes Gary Cooper.

"Cooper was one of the founding members of the Motion Picture Alliance for the Preservation of American Ideals,[358] a conservative organization dedicated, according to its statement of principles, to preserving the "American way of life" and opposing communism and fascism.[359] The organization — whose membership included Walter Brennan, Laraine Day, Walt Disney, Clark Gable, Hedda Hopper, Ronald Reagan, Barbara Stanwyck, and John Wayne — advised the United States Congress to investigate communist influence in the motion picture industry.[360] On October 23, 1947, Cooper appeared before the House Un-American Activities Committee (HUAC) and was asked if he had observed any "communistic influence" in Hollywood.[361] Cooper recounted statements he'd heard suggesting that the Constitution was out of date and that Congress was an unnecessary institution—comments that Cooper said he found to be "very un-American".[361] He also testified that he had rejected several scripts because he thought they were "tinged with communist ideas".[361] Unlike some other witnesses, Cooper did not name any individuals during his testimony.[361][362]"

They really just can't stop going back to McCarthyism.
posted by srboisvert at 10:50 AM on September 8, 2017 [9 favorites]


That's the problem - it's a convenient theory that makes it easy to dismiss the actual interaction between groups as just being due to "tribal" dynamics, instead of actually looking at why those interactions exist.

Aren't most scientific theories (e.g., evolution) conveniently abused by people trying to use them to obfuscate issues or push an agenda, though? That doesn't invalidate the theories...it just means we need to be vigilant and suspicious of when people use them in certain ways.

If you are using the concept of tribalism to explain why people tend to promote in-group/out-group dynamics then that seems perfectly reasonable. If you then go on to try to use tribalism to support why group values are morally equivalent across all groups, that's something else. There is a tribalistic reason why many whites gravitate toward holding their own ethnicity in higher esteem than non-whites. But that explanation doesn't excuse the behavior, or suggest that it's the equivalent of the value for equality.

At some point, what the theory of tribalism helps to illuminate still has to be dealt with by some moral framework. That's what civilized society is all about - that we may be impinged upon by tribalistic forces, but that there is a countervailing force that prevents us as moral beings from simply letting those forces dictate our attitudes and behavior. I like the concept above that humanism is the way to hold tribalism accountable.
posted by darkstar at 10:51 AM on September 8, 2017 [11 favorites]


Cooper was one of the founding members of the Motion Picture Alliance for the Preservation of American Ideals

Well, that's hardly super-duper.
posted by Faint of Butt at 10:52 AM on September 8, 2017 [17 favorites]


OnceUponATime, I can partially agree. I may have misused the term "tribalism" - the article you link points out
A tribal story is whatever story a tribe tells, and might be based on a worldview as morally sophisticated as any. A tribalist story is one saying that my tribe is the best and deserves to dominate all the others.
So, I'd say we need more... tribism, not tribalism? Bleh. We need more community identity. We don't need more zero-sum game approaches, which seem to run rampant throughout all three of the proposed motivating stories.

I disagree with its definition of humanism, or at least, I disagree with its accuracy. Facts are objective; "truth" is not. Truth needs context and an interpreter; it's not objective.

I'm aware we used to have stronger community identities, and even more overt racism and other kinds of oppression. I don't mean "we should go back to those times & systems." We need to club to death the bootstrap myth that encourages narcissistic individualism and the "US is the best country that ever could exist" dogma - but we need to replace them with something, or they become a vacuum that grabs the nearest story that promises safety and a purpose.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 10:54 AM on September 8, 2017 [3 favorites]


Could you imagine if it actually was on VHS? Who would even have a VCR to watch it?

brb writing a screenplay where a rookie journalist gets ahold of a VHS copy of the pee tape and has 24 hours to find a working VCR in the DC metro area before the Secret Service/Russian mobsters track her down
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:54 AM on September 8, 2017 [93 favorites]


Forget it Jake, it's Betamax.
posted by chris24 at 10:56 AM on September 8, 2017 [48 favorites]


They use SECAM in Russia, so our first look would be something like this
posted by theodolite at 11:08 AM on September 8, 2017 [5 favorites]


He got the hookers to dress up like Pinocchio before peeing on him? Yech.
posted by wenestvedt at 11:10 AM on September 8, 2017 [3 favorites]


Outwardly, the emotional model is more Gary Cooper, less Al Pacino.

Ah yes Gary Cooper.


That aside, Cooper's character in High Noon cries when he realizes no one in the town is going to help him.

That's what makes it an iconic Western, jackass.

Sheesh.
posted by Gelatin at 11:11 AM on September 8, 2017 [14 favorites]


Observing all the hand-wringing over the president’s emotional deficiencies are Trump supporters who come from America’s heartland and who, by and large, are outwardly stoic by nature. They do not wear their emotions on their sleeves. They greet strangers with a subtle nod rather than a showy hug or kiss on the cheek. A parent’s response to a child’s bump or bruise is a quick rub, a pat on the head and a prescription to run along. As they do everywhere, people love each other deeply, but their public displays of affection won’t nauseate any bystanders.

Some examples of Trump's heartland supporters' stoicism.
posted by srboisvert at 11:13 AM on September 8, 2017 [13 favorites]


(Sorry, the "jackass" is directed at the cretin who proposed Cooper as a model of becoming stoicism, not at srboisvert.)
posted by Gelatin at 11:16 AM on September 8, 2017 [2 favorites]


brb writing a screenplay where a rookie journalist gets ahold of a VHS copy of the pee tape and has 24 hours to find a working VCR in the DC metro area before the Secret Service/Russian mobsters track her down

Rookie journalist dials phone.
"Hello, Grandma? Is it okay if I stop by your place in five minutes? No, not with my boyfriend. I told you, I'm not seeing anyone right now."

posted by redsparkler at 11:18 AM on September 8, 2017 [29 favorites]


And she gets there and pops the tape in, hits Play - and the tape jams.
posted by adamg at 11:26 AM on September 8, 2017 [6 favorites]


brb writing a screenplay where a rookie journalist gets ahold of a VHS copy of the pee tape and has 24 hours to find a working VCR in the DC metro area before the Secret Service/Russian mobsters track her down

I'm going to make an information security startup that keeps everyone's data on 5 1/4" floppies, Betamax tapes, and Gopher servers. It will be unhackable. Hillary, call me if you need a new email server - I'll dig you up an Apple IIe.
posted by allegedly at 11:33 AM on September 8, 2017 [12 favorites]


brb writing a screenplay where a rookie journalist gets ahold of a VHS copy of the pee tape and has 24 hours to find a working VCR in the DC metro area before the Secret Service/Russian mobsters track her down

I had a bunch of reel-to-reel tapes that I fished out of someone's garbage (classic 70s vintage Grateful Dead, Cream, CSN&Y, etc...) that I wanted to give a listen to before selling on eBay just to make sure they were what they said on the literal tin.

It was impossible to find a reel-to-reel player that me as a university employee (but not a researcher or faculty) could use for like 10 minutes. I went everywhere. The library, the music department, the media center. Never found one. Sold the tapes "as is" because I couldn't confirm there was actual music on them.

This struggle is real and I would definitely watch this movie.
posted by soren_lorensen at 11:35 AM on September 8, 2017 [12 favorites]


This struggle is real reel and I would definitely watch this movie.

Fixed.
posted by Gelatin at 11:36 AM on September 8, 2017 [19 favorites]


Email? Don't you mean fidonet node?
posted by cmfletcher at 11:37 AM on September 8, 2017 [6 favorites]


whose membership included Walter Brennan

There was that time Luke hired a man who said he was Mexican and then Grandpa said he was Russian and dared the man to dispute him, so, yeah, Amos McCoy would be a fine Trump supporter. (Still a doggone shame about Kate, tho.)

Who would even have a VCR to watch it?

If my country calls, I'm ready to serve.
posted by octobersurprise at 11:40 AM on September 8, 2017 [17 favorites]


Fidonet? Like I'm going to trust a cleartext store-and-forward network mainly operated by a bunch of unwashed stoners and professional onanists.

Nah, what we need here is a some 300 baud modems and one really big spool of twisted pair. Just go direct point to point.
posted by loquacious at 11:47 AM on September 8, 2017 [3 favorites]


MetaFilter: a bunch of unwashed stoners and professional onanists.
posted by wenestvedt at 11:50 AM on September 8, 2017 [25 favorites]


"Professional Onanists" is the name of my orchestral Circle Jerks cover band.
posted by hanov3r at 11:52 AM on September 8, 2017 [55 favorites]


...you can...you can get paid for that?
posted by dragstroke at 11:52 AM on September 8, 2017 [8 favorites]


...you can...you can get paid for that?

Hi, welcome to the Internet. Let me show you around. Please take your hand out of your pants. Patience...
posted by Etrigan at 11:54 AM on September 8, 2017 [15 favorites]


Fidonet? Like I'm going to trust a cleartext store-and-forward network mainly operated by a bunch of unwashed stoners and professional onanists.

Leave Breitbart out of this.
posted by Gelatin at 11:57 AM on September 8, 2017 [3 favorites]


We are not going to make this about Sarah Huckabee Sanders' appearance, but my god, those shoulder pleats
posted by OverlappingElvis at 11:57 AM on September 8, 2017 [2 favorites]


Bloomberg, Erik Wasson, House GOP Rips Mnuchin for His ‘Vote for the Debt Ceiling for Me’ Sales Pitch
Conservative House Republicans hissed and groaned at Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin as he implored them to vote for a hurricane relief bill that includes a short-term extension of the federal debt limit.

Some Republicans, attending a closed-door meeting Friday, were infuriated by the sales pitch for the deal, especially when Mnuchin told them to “vote for the debt ceiling for me,” said Representative Mark Walker of North Carolina.
...
Republicans also laughed at White House budget director Mick Mulvaney during his presentation. Several said it was ironic that Mulvaney, who as a member of the conservative House Freedom Caucus led several fights over the debt limit and pushed to shut down the government, pleaded with Republicans to pass the kind of measure he used to crusade against.
...
“One question that I personally asked is: What does the debt ceiling look like in December, and the Treasury secretary could not answer that and many of us found that very troubling,” Walker said.
The White House-GOP relationship is in full on thisisfine.gif mode right now.
posted by zachlipton at 11:59 AM on September 8, 2017 [12 favorites]


I'm going to make an information security startup that keeps everyone's data on 5 1/4" floppies, Betamax tapes, and Gopher servers. It will be unhackable. Hillary, call me if you need a new email server - I'll dig you up an Apple IIe.

I believe that was a plot point in a couple episodes of Orphan Black.
posted by scalefree at 12:02 PM on September 8, 2017 [3 favorites]


The White House-GOP relationship is in full on thisisfine.gif mode right now.

I've watched enough professional wrestling to know that this is probably the set up for a heel-turn. It looks like we're kind of safe because the White House and the Congressional Republicans are at each others throats so we let our guard down and the next thing we know, Ryan is throwing salt into Pelosi's face and Trump is hitting Schumer in the back with a folding chair and then our grandparents are all eating their cats because they can't even afford cat food.
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:03 PM on September 8, 2017 [34 favorites]


*record scratch*

Baucus backs single-payer health system
It’s time for America to consider seriously a single-payer, government-run health system, says Max Baucus, Montana’s longest serving U.S. senator, former ambassador to China and one of the chief architects of Obamacare.

“My personal view is we’ve got to start looking at single-payer,” Baucus said Thursday night at Montana State University. “I think we should have hearings…. We’re getting there. It’s going to happen.”

It was a startling turnaround for Baucus, who eight years ago was chairman of the powerful Senate Finance Committee and a key Democratic leader in the political battles that ultimately passed the Affordable Care Act.
posted by tonycpsu at 12:05 PM on September 8, 2017 [47 favorites]


Good news everybody, College Republicans openly admit to knowing alt-right people who went to Charlottesville(warning:Periscope, College Republicans) , and surprise surprise... they are laughing it up and seem to have no problem with it.

I didn't watch far enough in, but I'm sure they're deepy, deeply concerned at the violence from both sides.

Maybe it's time to classify College Republicans as terrorists?
posted by Yowser at 12:17 PM on September 8, 2017 [17 favorites]


Trump took a non-publicized meeting with the new Russian ambassador.
Well, not publicized to us. Russian news had it.
MOSCOW (Reuters) - Russia’s newly installed ambassador to Washington said on Friday that he had a warm and constructive meeting with U.S. President Donald Trump, Russian news agencies reported.
posted by rewil at 12:19 PM on September 8, 2017 [25 favorites]


I know their motivations are more cheap labor than any moral stand, but at this point I don't really care if it helps prevent mass deportations of kids to countries they don't know.

Koch Brothers Will Push Congress to Protect DREAMers
Spokespeople for the Koch network confirmed to The Daily Beast that it will press Congress for a legislative fix to the recently rescinded Obama-era program, known as Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals, that shielded undocumented immigrants who came to the country as children.

The Kochs’ backing could provide a crucial boost to efforts to preserve DACA, which Trump announced this week he will phase out over the course of six months. Congress has scrambled to find a replacement for those legal protections that are set to be removed. And Trump himself signaled early support for the DREAM Act, which would, essentially, codify the DACA protections that Obama had imposed via executive action.

“The Seminar Network is committed to working with and encouraging lawmakers to come together to pass a durable solution into law,” said James Davis, a spokesman for that network, in a Wednesday email. “Our country has benefited tremendously from a history of welcoming people from all cultures and backgrounds. This is a hallmark of free and open societies.” ...

With its formidable political and policy operation, the Koch network could provide more political cover to Republican members of Congress as they consider a replacement to the DACA program. Koch network alumni are sprinkled throughout Trump’s inner circle, and include White House director of legislative affairs Marc Short and Corey Lewandowski, the former Trump campaign manager who now advises a prominent independent political group supporting the president.

Though the Kochs have clashed with President Trump on some major issues—including his ban on immigration from six Muslim-majority nations—they retain significant influence among Hill Republicans, many of whom were elected with the support of Koch network organizations. The network mostly sat out the 2016 presidential race, but its various arms—which include not just political groups but policy advocacy organizations, think tanks, and more educational outfits—spent about $750 million in the runup to last year’s elections.
posted by chris24 at 12:24 PM on September 8, 2017 [7 favorites]


the next thing we know, Ryan is throwing salt into Pelosi's face and Trump is hitting Schumer in the back with a folding chair
The Broward County Republicans are in turmoil today after revelations that a freshly elected member of their executive board is a man who once was charged with attempted murder in the savage claw-hammer beating of a then-classmate at a Los Angeles prep school for multi-millionaires’ children.
Broward GOP uncovers a nasty secret about its young party secretary
It could happen.
posted by octobersurprise at 12:26 PM on September 8, 2017 [19 favorites]


Radio stations might still have reel-to-reels. Or recording studios.

The VHS reference is built into how we refer to it: the pee tape.

Not film, not video -- tape.
posted by snuffleupagus at 12:28 PM on September 8, 2017 [4 favorites]


brb writing a screenplay where a rookie journalist gets ahold of a VHS copy of the pee tape and has 24 hours to find a working VCR in the DC metro area before the Secret Service/Russian mobsters track her down

This was more or less an episode of Cowboy Bebop.
posted by Strange Interlude at 12:29 PM on September 8, 2017 [17 favorites]


So, it's the Koch Brothers who are finally going to give Trump the Ned Beatty speech? I'm honestly surprised if took this long.
posted by Room 641-A at 12:34 PM on September 8, 2017 [7 favorites]


Oh the huge manatee ...

Limbaugh


I see what you did there.
posted by Mental Wimp at 12:36 PM on September 8, 2017 [13 favorites]


Trump took a non-publicized meeting with the new Russian ambassador.

The one he's replacing was basically FSB's spymaster for the US, presumably ran the US end of the 2016 election operation. I'm sure this one will have nothing to do with all that going forward though, so that's OK.
posted by scalefree at 12:40 PM on September 8, 2017 [2 favorites]


Broward GOP uncovers a nasty secret about its young party secretary

That photo...he's very endomorphic, isn't he?
posted by orrnyereg at 12:40 PM on September 8, 2017


Bloomberg, Erik Wasson, House GOP Rips Mnuchin for His ‘Vote for the Debt Ceiling for Me’ Sales Pitch

The weird thing about that article is the only positive quote about Mnuchin is from Thomas Massie, who is an Tea Party lunatic who will under no circumstances vote for hurricane relief, an increase to the debt ceiling, or anything short of total abolition of the federal government. If you've ever looked at a 400-2 vote and wondered what kind of asshole would vote against that, it's always him (and usually Justin Amash).
posted by Copronymus at 12:46 PM on September 8, 2017 [2 favorites]


WaPo, Carol D. Leonnig, Rosalind S. Helderman and Ashley Parker, Spicer, Priebus, Hicks among six current and former Trump aides Mueller has expressed interest in interviewing for Russia probe. Also on the list, White House counsel Don McGahn, Deputy counsel James Burnham, and Josh Raffel, Jared's spokesman. This suggests, based on the documents Mueller has requested, that he's interested in Flynn's calls with Kislyak and the lies the White House told about them and about the Trump Tower meeting and the lies the White House told about that.

@chick_in_kiev: Hope Hicks will never crack and never surrender. all the rest are softboys

Sarah Kliff reports that Obamacare sabotage has reached even greater levels. Last year's grants for outreach and enrollment assistance ran out on September 1, and they're simply not making any new ones right now, leading agencies to lay people off and shut down operations, including cancelling outreach events ahead of November's enrollment period. "This is either deliberate sabotage or unbelievable incompetence." They might pay up for next month, but they say the grants won't be retroactive, meaning agencies will be forced to dismantle themselves now and somehow reconstitute next month, losing trained staff and time. These agencies primarily help low-income Americans get health insurance, many of whom don't have home internet access or speak English.

TPM reports that House GOPers Say They Accidentally Signed Brief Opposing Gerrymandering. Yep. Rep. Mark Meadows and Rep. Walter Jones (both R-NC) signed onto an amicus brief urging the Supreme Court to ban political gerrymandering. They claim this was an "error" and a "misunderstanding," respectively.

In which the least professional White House staff imaginable whines to Politico's Annie Karni about Kelly's aide, Kirstjen Nielsen, who they call "Nurse Ratched" because she does stuff like make them show up on time and is loyal to Kelly and not Trump.

Can you imagine if Obama's staff all ganged up on a different colleague in the press like this every other day?

Also, a quick update on the Kuwaiti airplane situation, because I know we all care so much: they recently got a new plane, a 747-8, making their aircraft 18.3' longer than Air Force One, at least until the new AF1 is ready, then they'll be the same size.
posted by zachlipton at 12:47 PM on September 8, 2017 [20 favorites]


Someone upthread asked if there is a way to help Dreamers with the $495 DACA reapplication fee. You can donate to the Dreamers Initiative, which will support to Dreamers in Pennsylvania.
posted by mcduff at 12:53 PM on September 8, 2017 [12 favorites]


Daniel Dale on Twitter: Pressed by an interviewer, Commerce Sec Ross says "it's too early to really tell" if Canada/Mexico are negotiating in good faith on NAFTA.

For context, Canada's GDP is roughly something like 10 per cent of the GDP United States. There is literally no universe in which Canada could be systematically screwing the US over on trade on all fronts. This is all poisoning the well as a pretext to ditching NAFTA, a threat he reiterated today.

Look, since softwood lumber has been an enduring trade dispute between the US and Canada, let's just agree that there are not enough chainsaws in the Pacific Northwest for Ross to go fuck himself with.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 12:54 PM on September 8, 2017 [11 favorites]


I think humanism can stand in for tribalism.
posted by OnceUponATime at 10:35 AM on September 8 [3 favorites +] [!]


The ultimate tribe. And the natural disasters that are ganging up on us right now are powerful reminders that we need to band together, because it's a harsh world.
posted by Mental Wimp at 12:57 PM on September 8, 2017 [8 favorites]


Softwood lumber is a dispute that Canada consistently won.

Anyways, as I always say, if you want to rip up NAFTA, we're more than willing to sell our energy to other countries. Currently we're literally forced to sell energy to the United States first.
posted by Yowser at 1:00 PM on September 8, 2017 [3 favorites]


Softwood lumber is a dispute that Canada consistently won.

Yeah, I know. I was using it as cheap fodder for the chainsaw joke.

Desperate times and the measures called for therein, etc.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 1:04 PM on September 8, 2017 [1 favorite]


I'm going to make an information security startup that keeps everyone's data on 5 1/4" floppies, Betamax tapes, and Gopher servers. It will be unhackable. Hillary, call me if you need a new email server - I'll dig you up an Apple IIe.
posted by allegedly at 11:33 AM on September 8 [5 favorites +] [!]


Nah, they'll just track you down using gopher.
posted by Mental Wimp at 1:08 PM on September 8, 2017 [3 favorites]


Nurse Ratched

For those who don't know, this is a reference from One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest.
posted by Room 641-A at 1:11 PM on September 8, 2017


CNN, Gloria Borger and Marshall Cohen, Document details scrapped deal for Trump Tower Moscow
Around the time presidential candidate Donald Trump was touting his real estate dealings at a Republican primary debate, a proposal was in the works to build a Trump Tower in Russia that would have given his company a $4 million upfront fee, no upfront costs, a percentage of the sales, and control over marketing and design. And that's not all: the deal included the opportunity to name the hotel spa after his daughter Ivanka.

An internal Trump Organization document from October 2015, obtained by CNN on Thursday, reveals the details of a 17-page letter of intent that set the stage for Trump's attorney to negotiate a promising branding venture for Trump condominiums, a hotel and commercial property in the heart of Moscow. Trump signed the document later that month, according to Michael Cohen, his corporate attorney at the time. The document CNN obtained does not have Trump's signature because it is a copy of the deal that Cohen brought to Trump to sign.
...
While the potential Russian deal was still on the table, Trump was speaking positively about working with Russian President Vladimir Putin and also minimized Russia's aggressive military moves around the world. His willingness to accept narratives favored by the Kremlin contrasted with not only the Obama administration but also his Republican opponents.

At the debates, Trump went after those opponents -- but not Putin. In a primary debate in September 2015, he said he "would get along with" Putin and articulated a more conciliatory posture toward the Kremlin. In October 2015, days before he signed the letter of intent, Trump tweeted a link to an article titled "Putin loves Donald Trump."
Notably, Sater mixed politics and business when he was selling the deal:
In an email to Cohen, Sater wrote the project could "possibly fix relations between the countries by showing everyone that commerce and business are much better and more practical than politics." He continued, "That should be Putin's message as well, and we will help him agree on that message. Help world peace and make a lot of money, I would say that's a great lifetime goal for us to go after."
Here's the document itself. Trump, for his part, spent the campaign insisting he had "nothing" to do with Russia.
posted by zachlipton at 1:12 PM on September 8, 2017 [31 favorites]


Pressed by an interviewer, Commerce Sec Ross says "it's too early to really tell" if Canada/Mexico are negotiating in good faith on NAFTA.

What the fuck does that even mean? If there's anyone to accuse of bad faith in the negotiations, it's the US delegation with their constant threats to leave NAFTA and Trump making comments this summer about how we're being "difficult". You stupid fucks (in the Trump administration) are supposed to know how deals get done but the expectation seems to be that everyone should just roll over for Trump. Fuck that; we're going to stand up for our interests, you bloviating shitbags. In all honesty, I'd love to see Mexico and Canada start a separate set of talks parallel to these to prepare for the eventuality of the US leaving the table.

This is me over-reacting to this bit of non-news just because I needed somewhere to bleed off some frustration and angst over the state of the world. If hockey season was on, I'd have a slightly better outlet. *glares out the window at the fucking smoke and wonders when the world will stop burning*
posted by nubs at 1:15 PM on September 8, 2017 [16 favorites]


...Baucus, who eight years ago was chairman of the powerful Senate Finance Committee and a key Democratic leader roadblock in the political battles that ultimately passed the Affordable Care Act

FTFY
posted by Mental Wimp at 1:15 PM on September 8, 2017 [9 favorites]


I would be interested in reading some learned speculation as to what is going on with Trump's size obsession. Is it part of his malignant narcissism, is it something he picked up at the military academy, what.

I mean I know the obvious idea would be compensating for maybe a small penis, but I always feel a little sick and mean inside when I think that, and I'd like to have another theory.
posted by angrycat at 1:17 PM on September 8, 2017 [2 favorites]


The Broward County Republicans are in turmoil today after revelations that a freshly elected member of their executive board is a man who once was charged with attempted murder in the savage claw-hammer beating of a then-classmate at a Los Angeles prep school for multi-millionaires’ children.

They really have a type.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 1:17 PM on September 8, 2017 [24 favorites]


Pressed by an interviewer, Commerce Sec Ross says "it's too early to really tell" if Canada/Mexico are negotiating in good faith on NAFTA.

We can be sure there's one party not bargaining in good faith. I'll give you a hint, it's not Canada & it's not Mexico.
posted by scalefree at 1:20 PM on September 8, 2017 [4 favorites]


All 6 Missouri Republicans in House vote against Trump's hurricane relief, debt ceiling deal

I hope tornado season's a bastard next year and that a house gets dropped on Ann Wagner.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 1:25 PM on September 8, 2017 [19 favorites]


a man who once was charged with attempted murder in the savage claw-hammer beating of a then-classmate at a Los Angeles prep school for multi-millionaires’ children..

I'll save you a click, it's Harvard-Westlake. Not creative enough for Crossroads.
posted by Room 641-A at 1:37 PM on September 8, 2017 [4 favorites]


Good news everybody, College Republicans openly admit to knowing alt-right people who went to Charlottesville(warning:Periscope, College Republicans) , and surprise surprise... they are laughing it up and seem to have no problem with it.

I didn't watch far enough in, but I'm sure they're deepy, deeply concerned at the violence from both sides.


Important to remember next time there's a bunch of hand-wringing and "both sides do it" and cries of censorship over a conservative and/or bigot (but I repeat myself) invited to a college campus by the school's College Neo-Nazi contingent who gets protested.
posted by zombieflanders at 1:40 PM on September 8, 2017 [4 favorites]


CNN, Gloria Borger and Marshall Cohen, Document details scrapped deal for Trump Tower Moscow

Was I the only one struggling to read this clearly? "details" as a verb and "scrapped" as an adjective just threw me for a loop.
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 1:42 PM on September 8, 2017 [14 favorites]


Around the time presidential candidate Donald Trump was touting his real estate dealings at a Republican primary debate, a proposal was in the works to build a Trump Tower in Russia that would have given his company a $4 million upfront fee

In other news, a man who claims to be a multibillionaire clearly thought that a comparatively measly $4M from shady Russian mobsters was worth selling himself, his family, and his country out for. Goddammit, I can't wait for Mueller to reveal his taxes.
posted by Strange Interlude at 1:43 PM on September 8, 2017 [30 favorites]


Tom Namako @TomNamako
Sarah Sanders cuts off the press briefing because “it’s Friday” and Trump needs to go to Camp David for the weekend. OK!

Sorry, why is Trump going to Camp David??
posted by Room 641-A at 1:44 PM on September 8, 2017 [6 favorites]


Sorry, why is Trump going to Camp David??

Harvey is moving into Mar-a-Lago
posted by nubs at 1:45 PM on September 8, 2017 [20 favorites]


yeah, but the hurricanes aren't aimed for D.C. I mean, has he spent a single weekend on WH grounds? It's like he has to go off campus to rejuvenate his powers with the help of the Orb weekly, or something.
posted by angrycat at 1:48 PM on September 8, 2017 [12 favorites]


a man who once was charged with attempted murder in the savage claw-hammer beating of a then-classmate at a Los Angeles prep school for multi-millionaires’ children..

as god is my witness, i thought american psycho was satirical
posted by murphy slaw at 1:52 PM on September 8, 2017 [26 favorites]


Oh these are very, very special College Republicans indeed. They openly link to Milo Yiannoupolouss on their Facebook page as well.
posted by Yowser at 1:55 PM on September 8, 2017


Harvey is moving into Mar-a-Lago

Irma? Or is that the joke?
posted by Room 641-A at 1:56 PM on September 8, 2017 [1 favorite]




I've been interested in some time in how tape has become...fossilized...as our go-to idiom for (a) recording (of) moving pictures. Will we still be "taping" things 100 years hence (as ever, I'm optimistically presuming we survive the 40 days and 40 nights of Pee)?

Before videotape and motion pictures, what did we have, the Hammurabi pee cueniform? The Caligula pee cropcircle?

As you may have gathered, six+ months of President Trauma has had a profoundly disturbing effect upon my thought and social processes. ... Sad!
posted by riverlife at 1:58 PM on September 8, 2017 [5 favorites]


It's like he has to go off campus to rejuvenate his powers with the help of the Orb weekly, or something.

Longing. Rusted. Furnace. Daybreak. Seventeen. Benign. Nine. Homecoming. One. Freight car.
posted by nubs at 1:59 PM on September 8, 2017 [14 favorites]


Steve Bannon Wore Two Button Down Shirts At The Same Time, And Twitter Is Confused

oh steve, you're so behind the times you'll never catch up
posted by murphy slaw at 2:00 PM on September 8, 2017 [3 favorites]


Longing. Rusted. Furnace. Daybreak. Seventeen. Benign. Nine. Homecoming. One. Freight car.

Ready to comply.
posted by orrnyereg at 2:03 PM on September 8, 2017 [3 favorites]


Softwood lumber is a dispute that Canada consistently won.

Softwood lumber is a dispute that both sides consistently win. Low lumber prices are a huge boon to the American economy. You want a cheap home? Then you need cheap softwood lumber.

If America wants to dictate whether Canadian logging companies can log on public land at low prices then it opens itself up to attacks on its own meat industry and agribusiness both of which receive incredibly massive state subsidies that make any thing Canada does look paltry in comparison.

How many Americans will be happy with sudden inflation in housing and food costs? My guess is the number is close to zero.

You don't start a trade dispute over subsidies when your own side engages in more subsidizing (and generally conceals it from the public behind a real america rugged individual costume) unless you are a delusional idiot.

So expect it to happen.
posted by srboisvert at 2:07 PM on September 8, 2017 [14 favorites]


Thanks sr, I forgot how massively America subsidises their agriculture.

Come to think of it, maybe NAFTA is a bad deal after all. For Canada.
posted by Yowser at 2:09 PM on September 8, 2017 [2 favorites]


So, meant to follow up, then life happened:

However. I think it is possible to take sides in a conflict and still seek peaceful resolutions of that conflict. And I think that is what Drutman is doing here (and me too.) The article is more focused on the "what kinds of peaceful resolutions might we find" part than the "taking sides" part, but I don't think there's any doubt that he thinks one side is driving the conflict. But still there is a conflict, and we will either resolve it peacefully or... not.

The problem with looking for "peaceful" resolutions is what happens when none of them are just? Do you force people to accept an unjust resolution because it's peaceful, or do you accept that justice forecloses peace? I personally feel that you can't actually have peace without justice, so trying to forestall conflict becomes a fool's errand if it means forestalling justice as well.

The problem we have with partisanship isn't that we have two sides becoming more partisan, but because you have what is fundamentally a rump faction in politics (look at the differential between proportion of the vote versus control of the legislature to see how much this is the case) becoming more and more extreme in order to retain power, because that side knows that once it slips, the game is over. Conservatives aren't worried about not having a voice, but that on an even playing field, they can't win. (Paul Weyrich, one of the founders of the modern evangelical movement, stated it openly back in the early 80's - with a large polity, he loses.) And in his solutions, he makes some really bad arguments, like this:

A shift toward localism, or federalism, could help, too. If partisans on both sides felt more secure that they could live their values at home regardless of who was in power in Washington, this could lighten some of the zero-sum nastiness and dysfunction of national politics. For those on the left who have long seen federalism as code for mistreatment of minorities, the resistance of blue cities to Trump’s more draconian anti-immigration policies should offer some reassurance.

Allowing conservative die-hards to "live their values" at home would throw many of the dispossessed to the wolves for the 'crime' of not being able to leave a red area. (And no, sanctuary cities are not a counterpoint to the fact that "state's rights" has been a coded defense of racism throughout American history.)
posted by NoxAeternum at 2:13 PM on September 8, 2017 [12 favorites]


It's done. Trump signed HR 601 on his way out the door (Harvey, 3 month continuing resolution and debt ceiling suspension). He did not, as some here feared, blow up his own deal.

It's still early though, so plenty of other ways for him to be destructive remain.
posted by zachlipton at 2:13 PM on September 8, 2017 [26 favorites]


Mueller gives White House names of 6 aides he expects to question in Russia probe (WaPo)
Special counsel Robert S. Mueller III has alerted the White House that his team will probably seek to interview six top current and former advisers to President Trump who were witnesses to several episodes relevant to the investigation of Russia’s meddling in the 2016 election, according to people familiar with the request.

Mueller’s interest in the aides, including trusted adviser Hope Hicks, former press secretary Sean Spicer and former chief of staff Reince Priebus, reflects how the probe that has dogged Trump’s presidency is starting to penetrate a closer circle of aides around the president.
posted by kingless at 2:16 PM on September 8, 2017 [7 favorites]


Come to think of it, maybe NAFTA is a bad deal after all. For Canada.

The auto industry relies on efficient movement of goods between Michigan, Ontario and Ohio, just off the top of my head.

Undoing NAFTA isn't quite the magnitude of Brexit but it's on the same scale of stupid.
posted by tivalasvegas at 2:17 PM on September 8, 2017 [7 favorites]


And now the real fun begins: Dems threaten December shutdown if Dreamers aren't protected
Hours after Rep. Luis Gutiérrez (D-Ill.) voted for a three-month government funding deal that he had lambasted his party’s leaders for striking with President Donald Trump, he suggested that top Democrats are prepared to take a stronger stand once that deal expires. Gutiérrez said Democratic leaders ceded leverage they could have used to help undocumented immigrants who came to the country as children.

“We will shut it down or let Republicans keep it open with their own votes,” Gutiérrez told Dreamers and immigration activists gathered on Capitol Hill on Friday. He and every other House Democrat had just voted for the funding package that also includes aid for Hurricane Harvey victims.

“The vast majority of members in the Democratic Caucus are ready to say, if there is no pathway forward” for Dreamers, “then there is no government for anyone," Gutiérrez said.
posted by zachlipton at 2:20 PM on September 8, 2017 [27 favorites]


This kind of bullshit obstructionism (Debt ceiling/shutdown) is for tea party repugnicants not Democrats. I'm done, you can have this country.
posted by HyperBlue at 2:24 PM on September 8, 2017 [3 favorites]


Democrats threatening shutdown!?!? Will this country ever be governed effectively again?
posted by Coventry at 2:24 PM on September 8, 2017


That's really, really stupid framing already, which leads me to believe Rep. Gutiérrez is posturing on his own without buy-in from leadership yet. You don't come out and admit your party is the one causing the shutdown. You blame Republicans for failing to marshal their own members to fund their own government, and say your party is ready and willing to help them if they meet this one concession that everyone agrees should happen anyway.
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:25 PM on September 8, 2017 [11 favorites]


Democrats have an easy retort to the "bullshit obstructionism" charge -- they've offered to support (unanimously, I'd imagine) elimination of the debt ceiling. If it doesn't exist, neither side can use it, just like nuclear disarmament. But unilateral disarmament is for chumps.
posted by tonycpsu at 2:26 PM on September 8, 2017 [10 favorites]


This kind of bullshit obstructionism (Debt ceiling/shutdown) is for tea party repugnicants not Democrats. I'm done, you can have this country.

Democrats threatening shutdown!?!? Will this country ever be governed effectively again?


Republicans normalized hostage taking, this is how the government works now. It just is. I have zero problem with the Democrats turning the Republicans own weapons against them, and they will win, because shutting down your own government is fucking idiotic, and there's no way for Republicans to look good doing it. They also need Democrats literally just to keep the lights on, because of bomb throwers in their own ranks. There's nothing wrong with asking for reasonable concessions because Paul Ryan is fucking horrible at his job and can't do it without asking for help.

But that's not how you do it, by declaring intention to own the shutdown three months in advance.
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:29 PM on September 8, 2017 [34 favorites]


I'm really amused at Spicey having to tell the truth to Mueller.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 2:30 PM on September 8, 2017 [3 favorites]


> But that's not how you do it, by declaring intention to own the shutdown three months in advance.

I find the honesty refreshing. "Yes, we're threatening to shut it down, just like you pricks did. If you don't like it, I can deliver you a couple hundred votes to eliminate the debt ceiling. Wait, where are you going?"
posted by tonycpsu at 2:31 PM on September 8, 2017 [14 favorites]


I'm really amused at Spicey having to tell the truth to Mueller.

You've made a big assumption there.
posted by Chrysostom at 2:32 PM on September 8, 2017 [15 favorites]


Steve Bannon Wore Two Button Down Shirts At The Same Time, And Twitter Is Confused

Last night he spilled his drink on the bottom one so this morning he just put on a new one over it.
posted by octobersurprise at 2:34 PM on September 8, 2017 [11 favorites]


It's like Bannon is the spawn of John Birch and Mitchell.
posted by octobersurprise at 2:37 PM on September 8, 2017 [8 favorites]


Democrats threatening shutdown!?!?

Republicans control the House, Senate and Presidency. They are entirely capable of keeping the lights on by themselves. Not my fucking fault they won't/can't. Dems aren't threatening anything. They're saying our help in fixing your fucking problem has a small price.
posted by chris24 at 2:46 PM on September 8, 2017 [45 favorites]


Good to see the US is depending on the strategy which worked so well in Iraq: President Trump says 'hopefully everything will go well' as US braces for Hurricane
posted by Coventry at 2:47 PM on September 8, 2017 [2 favorites]


I agree that Gutiérrez is probably freelancing somewhat, and personally want the debt ceiling abolished forever, but good grief people. You say you want the Democrats to fight instead of being worthless wet newspaper, and then when someone suggests doing that to defend 800,000 vulnerable people using the only piece of leverage the minority party has, it's bullshit?

Anyway, Republicans have another way out of this if they don't like it: just pass a budget themselves with Republican votes. That the Republican party contains so many members uninterested in governing that they won't do so isn't really a Democratic problem. If they want our help, not deporting 800,000 dreamers is a darn good thing to include in our opening offer.

Did you think Pelosi and Schumer negotiated a three month deal instead of a longer one in order to roll over and give Republicans whatever they want in three months?
posted by zachlipton at 2:51 PM on September 8, 2017 [75 favorites]


I know their motivations are more cheap labor than any moral stand, but at this point I don't really care if it helps prevent mass deportations of kids to countries they don't know.

They're greedy, arrogant, and cynical, but spiteful, they are not.
posted by ocschwar at 2:51 PM on September 8, 2017 [1 favorite]


and then when someone suggests doing that to defend 800,000 vulnerable people using the only piece of leverage the minority party has, it's bullshit?

No, you misunderstand, people want rhetoric without action!
posted by Justinian at 2:52 PM on September 8, 2017 [5 favorites]


Democrats 2018: Action for some, Rhetoric for all!
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:54 PM on September 8, 2017 [3 favorites]


when someone suggests doing that to defend 800,000 vulnerable people using the only piece of leverage the minority party has, it's bullshit?

I understand why they're doing it, I just don't see how we'll ever get back to responsible governance after this. Also, taking responsibility for a potential future shutdown is a terrible way to put it, from a rhetorical perspective.
posted by Coventry at 2:57 PM on September 8, 2017 [1 favorite]


I understand why they're doing it, I just don't see how we'll ever get back to responsible governance after this.

Well, once you have adults in charge again, you destroy the weapon - you eliminate the debt ceiling for good.
posted by NoxAeternum at 3:02 PM on September 8, 2017 [15 favorites]


The Times has a Haberman/Thrush palace intrigue story expanding on why people hate Kirstjen Nielsen, Kelly's deputy, and someone seems to be running quite the campaign against her (as Haberman notes on twitter: "Abuse often gets heaped hardest [on] women in this White House, regardless of whether it's legit"), with eight current and former officials trashing her anonymously for trying to make the White House run more like the place is supposed to, which means things like banning Omarosa from anything important:
She is also responsible for keeping Mr. Kelly’s no-fly list of aides he deems to be unfit to attend serious meetings, the most prominent of whom is Omarosa Manigault, the former “Apprentice” star with an ill-defined job and a penchant for dropping into meetings where she was not invited.
Some other personnel shifts in there, including Kelly giving Bill Stepien, the political director, the side-eye for being ineffective, but when it comes to Gary Cohn, who has had a falling out because he's the only one to think white supremacy is bad or something, Trump is going full on Michael Scott by refusing to look at him:
Mr. Kelly made a point, one staff member said, of throwing his arm around Mr. Cohn in solidarity, in full view of the news media, as they exited Marine One last week on the South Lawn.

But he has not always been successful. Several aides said Mr. Trump is freezing out Mr. Cohn by employing a familiar tactic: refusing to make eye contact with Mr. Cohn when his adviser greets him.

At a meeting on Thursday on infrastructure at the White House with Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo of New York and members of Congress from New York and New Jersey, Mr. Kelly told participants that Mr. Cohn would lead the meeting. But Mr. Trump, whose most cutting insult is to pretend someone does not exist or that he barely knows them, virtually ignored him.
posted by zachlipton at 3:05 PM on September 8, 2017 [17 favorites]


Well, once you have adults in charge again, you destroy the weapon - you eliminate the debt ceiling for good.

Shit, I hope Chuck and Nancy call me when the Dems re-take control, I have a LONG list of norm-restoring stuff to pass.
posted by Chrysostom at 3:24 PM on September 8, 2017 [5 favorites]


I just don't see how we'll ever get back to responsible governance after this.

Good governance is a luxury we can worry about some day in the distant future when the threat of an alliance between capital-N-actual-fascists and Christian dominionists backed by both a domestic total surveillance propaganda empire and a foreign intelligence service ending our democracy is overcome. Until then it's daily survival and preserving whatever can be saved to maybe one day rise again.
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:24 PM on September 8, 2017 [31 favorites]


I don't know how to take the pieces that talk about the Sisyphean task Kelly and his aides have; am I supposed to care about any of these people who have willingly gone to work for the walking ego that is Trump? Do I want them to bring any professionalism and structure to this clown car of a White House?
posted by nubs at 3:25 PM on September 8, 2017 [1 favorite]


Do I want them to bring any professionalism and structure to this clown car of a White House?

Yes. There's no changing the fact that elections are fixed on four year timetables and there's a definitive order of succession.

We should hope for the least bad things to come out of this because there are millions of people who will be fucked by the badder things.
posted by Talez at 3:34 PM on September 8, 2017 [7 favorites]


Also, anyone who keeps Omarosa and her militant absolute fucking insanity away from Trump is a god damned hero.
posted by Talez at 3:38 PM on September 8, 2017 [15 favorites]


They have done it, turned us into a Bananas Republic.
posted by Oyéah at 3:47 PM on September 8, 2017 [4 favorites]


On the topic of "Who still uses VHS?" I strongly recommend listening to The Daily podcast for Tuesday, Sept. 5, 2017. There is so much going on in this interview with a Harvey survivor. Kris Ford-Amofa was the first in her family to actually buy a house and thought flood insurance was unnecessary because the house was not located in a flood zone. She describes how when the flood waters started to rise she, her sister, and their 6 children: from a 4 month old baby to a 17 year old autistic boy, had to rescue themselves because the oldest boy could never climb on the roof. They stuck the baby in the car seat carrier and put that in a floating plastic bin so that the 11 year old could guide it through the waters while Kris and her sister each carried a toddler.

Where does the VHS come in? When Kris returned home the interviewer asked what possession she was most happy to recover. It was the VCR player because she had tapes of her now-deceased mother singing in the church choir. Kris and her sister just like to watch the tapes sometimes and remember their mother.

a man who once was charged with attempted murder in the savage claw-hammer beating of a then-classmate

By the way if you didn't read the story the shock horror is NOT that the man is in the GOP, it is that ultimately he was charged with a misdemeanor. The woman he hit 40 times with his hammer attended her graduation in a wheelchair. How the fuck does that happen?!
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:57 PM on September 8, 2017 [48 favorites]


NBC Homeland Security Cancels Massive Roundups of Undocumented Immigrants
President Donald Trump's Department of Homeland Security had planned nationwide raids to target 8,400 undocumented immigrants later this month, according to three law enforcement officials and an internal document that described the plan as "the largest operation of its kind in the history of ICE," an acronym for U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

But after NBC News reported the plans late Thursday, the agency issued a statement saying it had cancelled nationwide enforcement actions due to Hurricane Irma and the damage caused by Hurricane Harvey. [...] There is currently no coordinated nationwide operation planned at this time. The priority in the affected areas should remain focused on life-saving and life-sustaining activities."
Yeah I guess video of tearing people away from their families in the aftermath of giant storms might not look so good.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:04 PM on September 8, 2017 [35 favorites]


Gee, it almost sounds like whoever put Omarosa in a position of power exercised poor judgement or something.
posted by kirkaracha at 4:04 PM on September 8, 2017 [6 favorites]


Secret Life of Gravy: "NBC Homeland Security Cancels Massive Roundups of Undocumented Immigrants"

Looks like we have confirmation of that tweet linked way earlier from Hannah Dreier, the ProPublica reporter, who tweeted about this "Operation Mega" (right down to the 8,400 number) yesterday. Sounds like there was a memo that got loose.
posted by mhum at 4:13 PM on September 8, 2017 [18 favorites]


Daily Beast Mueller Wants to Talk to Hope Hicks Over Misleading Russia Statement
People familiar with the probe tell The Daily Beast that Hicks—the longtime Trump aide who is currently interim White House communications director—likely has information that will interest Mueller regarding Donald Trump Jr.’s initial claim that his meeting with the Kremlin-linked lawyer Natalia Veselnitskaya was just about adoption.
Advertisement

“No doubt in my mind she is going to be a witness,” a source familiar with the Mueller probe told The Daily Beast. [...]In a reflection of how serious the administration is taking the matter, sources tell The Daily Beast there are currently efforts underway to organize a legal defense fund for White House staffers. Such a fund would help cover the legal bills associated with Mueller’s probe, which are expected to be large. A Washington white collar attorney told The Daily Beast that everyone questioned by Mueller will likely need to retain counsel. Those lawyers will likely bill between $500 and $1000 per hour.
I sure hope that Hicks is getting something out of working for this administration because it looks like it is going to cost her a fortune.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:43 PM on September 8, 2017 [3 favorites]




Who would even have a VCR to watch it?

*raises hand* I do own a working VCR/DVD combo player. It's not hooked up to anything, but it is in my house, because my husband and I still own a lot of VHS tapes of concert bootlegs and self-recorded stuff.
posted by threeturtles at 4:48 PM on September 8, 2017 [7 favorites]


Virginia orders immediate halt of voting machines considered vulnerable to hacking (Reuters/Raw Story)
The action represented one of the most concrete steps taken by a U.S. state to bolster the cyber security of election systems since the 2016 presidential race, when U.S. intelligence agencies say Russia waged a digital influence campaign to help President Donald Trump win.

Virginia’s board of elections voted to accept a recommendation from its state election director, Edgardo Cortes, to decertify so-called direct-recording electronic machines, which count votes digitally and do not produce paper trails that can be checked against a final result.

Barbara Simons, the president of Verified Voting, a nonprofit that advocates for auditable elections, applauded the decision as “a critical step toward securing its elections”.
Re Omarosa, I don't usually talk out of school but let's just say her church appearances and her book tours can appear to have interesting timing.
posted by Room 641-A at 4:49 PM on September 8, 2017 [25 favorites]


They cancelled the ICE roundup or "cancelled" it?
posted by fluttering hellfire at 4:49 PM on September 8, 2017 [11 favorites]


By the way if you didn't read the story the shock horror is NOT that the man is in the GOP, it is that ultimately he was charged with a misdemeanor. The woman he hit 40 times with his hammer attended her graduation in a wheelchair. How the fuck does that happen?!

"The grandson of Jason Tarsey, owner of the historic Dunes Hotel in Las Vegas"
posted by srboisvert at 4:51 PM on September 8, 2017 [13 favorites]


The Real Reason Tories Are So Furious with Labour's Laura Pidcock (Sam Kriss, Vice). This is superficially about some UK politics, but it's really about politics writ large, and why politics of collegiality and collaboration is neither inevitable nor constructive. And Sam Kriss wrote it.
Politics always directs itself against an enemy; if it refuses to do that, the result isn't a politics that's more decent and gracious and constructive, but one that's far worse. The enemy doesn't even deserve to be given that name: they're a nothing, an excremental blot to be scratched out, a thing deserving utter horror and repulsion.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 4:53 PM on September 8, 2017 [3 favorites]


I am not a hoarder. But I do still have a vCR for this very reason - what if I need to watch a tape for some reason? I am not a hoarder, but I am very guilty of " We might need this one day!" OK kind of a hoarder, but only of technology. I also have a Zip drive. I probably need help.
posted by mkim at 5:01 PM on September 8, 2017 [9 favorites]


OK I know people don't like twitter links and some get frustrated if they can't see the pictures but this tweet....made me snucklechork. Picture Eric sitting behind his desk and on the desk are a number of framed photographs....all of them facing out towards the viewer, not Eric. Also don't miss the broken bobblehead doll of his father and the giant ribbon cutting scissors in the back.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:05 PM on September 8, 2017 [10 favorites]


That's Junior not the other one.
posted by scalefree at 5:12 PM on September 8, 2017 [9 favorites]


So, I'd say we need more... tribism, not tribalism?

tribadism? much better as nostalgic old-timey notions go.

anyway, the thing about how you can pre-emptively save some little bastards from falling into white supremacy by giving them something to belong to is that it's just like the idea that you can save other little bastards from becoming MRAs by getting them girlfriends before they have time to turn bitter and sour and ferment in their loneliness. in that, ok, sure, we can save them by being with them and taking them into our groups and fastening them tightly to civilization with the bonds of affection and custom, but... you do it.

because people whom loneliness and alienation make susceptible to white supremacy are not people welcome in any other "tribe," that's part of how they get to be alienated is they are unwanted for extremely good reasons, such as what they are like inside, as people. all miserable people eventually become somewhat unpleasant in their own way, but not all of them are easy prey to this kind of monstrosity. the ones who are aren't good to be around even before they fall that far.

there are still communities that you can't help belonging to and that can't exclude you for at least a certain period of time even if nobody really wants you around: the family you're born into and the school you're sent to, mainly. but the alienation that comes out of being unable to form human bonds within these communities you already do unquestionably belong to is worse than the kind that comes from not having any communities at all. society can evolve to offer more prepackaged social groupings like this, but it can't make someone happy or well-liked within them, or determine his reaction to such a failure. not to mention that very often, groups of bigots are led and joined by people who are successful in other group contexts, it's not all lonely alone-bowlers.

You can do some substitutions, like take somebody who would have a great time at a fascist rally and send them to choir camp or a football game instead, and on a very superficial level that'll work sometimes. But there are an awful lot of groups people can affiliate with and when they end up with the very worst it's not usually by accident or because fate forced it upon them. there are options. if someone wants sweaty fellowship and shouting and chanting and good feelings, there are still, god help us, churches in this country. you just don't end up a white supremacist if you don't want to.
posted by queenofbithynia at 5:18 PM on September 8, 2017 [15 favorites]


Those are pictures of the kids he was trying to adopt out to the Russians last summer.
posted by notyou at 5:20 PM on September 8, 2017 [9 favorites]


D'oh of course it is Don, Jr. The largest photo in the middle seems to be one of himself. But what a strange way to arrange photos on your desk. Are they meant to impress the visitors?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:30 PM on September 8, 2017 [1 favorite]


"I'm sorry your kids are so ugly, Mr. Junior."
posted by Faint of Butt at 5:31 PM on September 8, 2017 [3 favorites]


Are they meant to impress the visitors?

"Hello, fellow, human. See? I'm a human... like you."
posted by Coventry at 5:32 PM on September 8, 2017 [31 favorites]


I recently saw a picture of Steve King, the neo-Nazi representative from Iowa, where his pictures were oriented the same way.
posted by dirigibleman at 5:38 PM on September 8, 2017 [5 favorites]


D'oh of course it is Don, Jr. The largest photo in the middle seems to be one of himself. But what a strange way to arrange photos on your desk. Are they meant to impress the visitors?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:30 PM on September 8 [+] [!]


I find that picture either deeply disturbing or really bad staging for a photo op.

If that is how the photos on his desk are always set up, the message it conveys to me is "Look upon my family. I love them and care about them. I care so much that look!!!! I have pictures!" At the same time, there is this weird subconscious thing of, "I need these pictures here, for appearances, but I don't want to look at my kids all day."

I am going with the photo-op angle because I still have a little bit of faith in humanity, and a whole lot of faith in "can't do anything right... not even a photo". Especially, as SLoG mentions, the largest picture seems to be of himself.
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 5:40 PM on September 8, 2017 [2 favorites]


I find that picture either deeply disturbing or really bad staging for a photo op.
this was the worst episide of Beavis & Butthead.
posted by rc3spencer at 5:42 PM on September 8, 2017


I guess they don't feel the need to actually look at the pictures of their family but still need to display them as some sort of prize. All the people I know who have pictures on their desks of family and friends and pets enjoy looking at them and sometimes take inspiration from them. I have one of my daughter and just looking at it makes me smile and reminds me of her mannerisms and her voice.

I guess a certain type of person just doesn't want or need that in their life.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:43 PM on September 8, 2017 [2 favorites]


Or they just don't feel adequate facing the person on the other side of the desk and need to have their family backing them up... security in numbers.
posted by oneswellfoop at 5:48 PM on September 8, 2017


what has happened is that white supremacy coming under fire has placed pressure on a political system where it had been a core component

I think this is absolutely the main concern and should to be the main concern, because any other explanation all too readily submerges or dilutes the reality of what this means.

One of the things it means is that we shouldn't be coy about what's at stake. When the Bannon's and Miller's and their ilk talk about the "collapse of Western civilization" we have to acknowledge that they are right in the sense that their idea of what Western civilization should be (racist, sexist, authoritarian) is collapsing -- and that this is no coincidence, but a hard-won (and imperfect) victory brought about by the cumulative efforts of an ideologically loosely congruent group of people, including politicians, scientists, teachers, artists, scholars, and people like you and me. In that sense it is very important to recognize that yes, this is our tribe, yes this is our legacy, and yes, we shall overcome.
posted by dmh at 5:51 PM on September 8, 2017 [34 favorites]


Christine Todd Whitman: How Not to Run the E.P.A. (NYT Op-Ed)
As a Republican appointed by President George W. Bush to run the agency, I can hardly be written off as part of the liberal resistance to the new administration. But the evidence is abundant of the dangerous political turn of an agency that is supposed to be guided by science.

The E.P.A.’s recent attack on a reporter for The Associated Press and the installation of a political appointee to ferret out grants containing “the double C-word” are only the latest manifestations of my fears, which mounted with Mr. Pruitt’s swift and legally questionable repeals of E.P.A. regulations — actions that pose real and lasting threats to the nation’s land, air, water and public health.

All of that is bad enough. But Mr. Pruitt recently unveiled a plan that amounts to a slow-rolling catastrophe in the making: the creation of an antagonistic “red team” of dissenting scientists to challenge the conclusions reached by thousands of scientists over decades of research on climate change. It will serve only to confuse the public and sets a deeply troubling precedent for policy-making at the E.P.A.
posted by Room 641-A at 5:51 PM on September 8, 2017 [52 favorites]


I agree that Gutiérrez is probably freelancing somewhat, and personally want the debt ceiling abolished forever, but good grief people. You say you want the Democrats to fight instead of being worthless wet newspaper, and then when someone suggests doing that to defend 800,000 vulnerable people using the only piece of leverage the minority party has, it's bullshit?

Hear, hear. It was fucking refreshing the other day to hear someone actually say, "The Democratic Party needs to stand for something." Gutiérrez is on the side of right here, and he also knows that 70-whatever percent of people are appalled by the DACA decision.

The Dems just gave Trump an unearned win despite the fact that the man does nothing but spew bullshit and weasel out of deals and promises. Now they're just providing some helpful incentive for him and his little spineless Renfields to live up to their end.
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:55 PM on September 8, 2017 [2 favorites]


The largest photo in the middle seems to be one of himself. But what a strange way to arrange photos on your desk. Are they meant to impress the visitors?

Wow, lowest Voight-Kampff score ever.
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:59 PM on September 8, 2017 [28 favorites]


brb writing a screenplay where a rookie journalist gets ahold of a VHS copy of the pee tape and has 24 hours to find a working VCR in the DC metro area before the Secret Service/Russian mobsters track her down

This was more or less an episode of Cowboy Bebop.


And Serenity.

Been out hurricane hunkering but I can confirm I own a two deck VHS machine meant for making VHS duplicates.

Helping and being helped by neighbors was nice (tools, handy folks, shutters, supplies) and it's hard for me to remember that this is the same neighborhood in which my Obama signs were kicked down a lot, that Dixie flags drive through, that posts Trump signs big enough to park my car behind, and I was frankly afraid to put my Hillary sign up in.

but all this is easier than watching Trump. There are clear, definitions of what the storm may do or not do, and we've notched down all the variables we can control. Makes me feel Super Storm Trump is just that more unsurviavable for way way way too many of us. More than they realize. The average Janes and Joes will take their lumps and move on, limping for ever and thinking "this is mostly fine but $OTHER!!!! is keeping me down!". As acquaintances and then friends and then family get mushed by this spinning malevolence that is drowning us all.
posted by tilde at 6:12 PM on September 8, 2017 [8 favorites]


All the people I know who have pictures on their desks of family and friends and pets enjoy looking at them and sometimes take inspiration from them

On my desk I have a picture of Phil Collins kissing Robert Palmer.

(Apropos of nothing, only Rachel Maddow would start a story about Irma by talking about King Ranch trucks and using the word "butch." That's why I love her.)
posted by octobersurprise at 6:16 PM on September 8, 2017 [5 favorites]


Steve Bannon Wore Two Button Down Shirts At The Same Time, And Twitter Is Confused

See, guys like you are in what we call the single-shirt-based community. You're people who believe that fashion emerges from your judicious wearing of one button-down shirt at a time. But that's not the way the world really works anymore. We're a sartorial empire now, and when we put on a second shirt, we create our own fashion reality. And while you're studying that second shirt -- judiciously, as you will -- we'll put on a third shirt, creating other new fashion realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's clothes horses... and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 6:18 PM on September 8, 2017 [32 favorites]


I still own a tv/vcr and a Sony minidisc player. I stand ready to help the resistance!
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:20 PM on September 8, 2017 [4 favorites]


The Democratic voter: "The Democrats must turn the tables on the GOP! It's war! All tactics are fair game!"

* A Democrat says something a little bit aggressive.*

The Democratic voter: "Oh no! My pearls!"
posted by Behemoth at 6:21 PM on September 8, 2017 [41 favorites]


On my desk I have a picture of Phil Collins kissing Robert Palmer.

Welp. That's a thing.
posted by MrVisible at 6:31 PM on September 8, 2017 [9 favorites]


I've been interested in some time in how tape has become...fossilized...as our go-to idiom for (a) recording (of) moving pictures.

People are still 'dialing' phone numbers, too.
Yes, I still have a VCR
posted by MtDewd at 6:33 PM on September 8, 2017 [3 favorites]


The Democrats must turn the tables on the GOP! It's war! All tactics are fair game!

I don't recall ever saying that. I do recall linking this, though.

About half of the erosion in Rome was done by the good guys, in order to seek justice for popular causes that the system had stymied.

posted by OnceUponATime at 6:35 PM on September 8, 2017 [3 favorites]


I find that picture either deeply disturbing or really bad staging for a photo op.

Oh Jeez ok so I'm going to apply Trump'z Razor here. Based on the evidence at hand, this is a spectacularly poorly staged photo op. The middle photo (which appears to just be Donald Jr) is surely a picture of him with his kids or with some award or achievement (dead elephant, big fish) but its blocked so it just looks dumb. The rest of the photos look like they probably live in that general area in his office (the rest of the desk is pretty cluttered) but the way they're arranged suggests they were turned around and carefully arranged so as not to disturb his Big Important Man name plate (and why would you need to have your own name on your desk? Surely anyone coming to meet you is going to know who you are).

The message of the picture is Jr is a very important (name plate) busy (looking at the computer screen) family (look at these kids!) man who worships his father (broken neck bobble-head doll). But its set up in such a ham-fisted way, which is typical of Trump Photos. They don't do subtle.

Ugh I've now spent five minutes thinking about Don Jr. I hate everything.
posted by Joey Michaels at 6:42 PM on September 8, 2017 [19 favorites]


On my desk I have a picture of Phil Collins kissing Robert Palmer.

Robert Plant? Because after minutes of searching I can find only Robert Plant. And I'll have that on my desk shortly.
posted by theredpen at 6:42 PM on September 8, 2017 [2 favorites]


You are correct. I wrote "Palmer" when I meant "Plant." Wish fullfillment, I guess.
posted by octobersurprise at 6:48 PM on September 8, 2017 [7 favorites]


You are correct. I wrote "Palmer" when I meant "Plant." Wish fullfillment, I guess.

Simply irresistible.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 7:08 PM on September 8, 2017 [40 favorites]


Carter, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Obama film fundraising PSA for Harvey victims.
posted by Room 641-A at 12:05 on September 8 [13 favorites +] [!]


This is heartwarming. And it also reminded me of:
The X-Presidents vs. the Constitution
The X-Presidents and the Wrath of the XX-Presidents
The X-Presidents Make Pro-War Cartoons

All I know is, if these four real ex-Presidents started a current events podcast, I'd totally listen.
posted by Miko at 7:09 PM on September 8, 2017 [6 favorites]




The message of the picture is Jr is a very important (name plate)

Important people don't have name plates on their desk. They are important enough that everyone knows who they are. How sad that Donald Junior needs a name plate on his desk so that people in the Trump Tower office know who he is.
posted by JackFlash at 7:27 PM on September 8, 2017 [19 favorites]


Advisory: Sanders to Announce Medicare for All Bill Wednesday (twitter)

Meanwhile Republicans are still trying one last time to pass Obamacare repeal. Graham-Cassidy is going to the CBO this week.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:33 PM on September 8, 2017 [1 favorite]


Been out hurricane hunkering but I can confirm I own a two deck VHS machine meant for making VHS duplicates.

Reminds me that I have sort of similar setup, except to copy VHS to DVD.
posted by Mental Wimp at 7:33 PM on September 8, 2017 [3 favorites]


Important people don't have name plates on their desk. They are important enough that everyone knows who they are

Exactly. It's not what important people do, it's a ten-year-old's idea of what important is supposed to look like. Same reason people who think it makes them look important to keep getting phone calls in meetings just look silly. Real important people have people for that (and/or anyone that calls, will call again later.)
posted by ctmf at 7:42 PM on September 8, 2017 [20 favorites]


Blast from the past (January):
Ryan: GOP will replace Obamacare, cut taxes and fund wall by August (Politico)
posted by Joseph Gurl at 7:51 PM on September 8, 2017 [14 favorites]


Ok, so I might have a few beers in me but when I was 16 in 1992 I worked bussing tables at a local restaurant and a doctor in town would come in like half an hour before closing with a party of 8. We had to sit him at a round table and he would move our fake flower centerpiece and put his brick sized phone in the middle in case he had to take a call. That's what this reminds me of. The doctor was a podiatrist.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 7:53 PM on September 8, 2017 [30 favorites]


VIRGINIA HOUSE ELECTIONS - Intro

There are relatively few statewide elections in odd years, but there are four sets of 2017 elections that could impact state unified control/trifectas (governor + both houses of the legislature) for the Dems:
1) DE SD-10 special -- This seat, if lost, would have broken the Dem trifecta in Delaware. Stephanie Hansen won the special back on Feb 25 in one of the first positive signs for Dems.

2) WA SD-45 special -- A Dem pickup of this seat on Nov 7 would restore a Dem trifecta in Washington (previously)

3) NJ elections -- Governor, all 40 Senate seats, and all 80 House seats are up Nov 7. The Dems currently control the Senate and House, but the GOP holds the governor's mansion. The Dems are strongly, strongly favored to win the governor race, and there's no reason to think they'll lose legislative seats in the current environment. (Trump is -26 in NJ).

4) VA elections -- Governor and all 100 House seats are up Nov 7 (no Senate seats are up). Currently, this is a Dem governor, and GOP House and Senate. We could see the Dems get the trifecta here as a stretch goal:
-- Dems currently have a decent polling lead for governor.
-- The Dems would need to pick up 17 seats to take control of the House, which is a reach. However, there are 17 GOP seats that voted for Clinton. Trump approval in VA is -18.
-- The GOP holds the Senate by two seats. However, if the Dems won the governorship and the House, a single GOP party switcher, or even just one caucusing with the Dems, would give unified control, as the Lt Gov would break the tie.
The Dems have done a much better job of fielding VA House candidates this time. In 2015, 44 GOP seats had no Dem candidate; in 2017, all but 12 GOP seats have a Dem candidate. Also, six GOP incumbents are not running again.

As an adjunct to the special elections series, I'll be looking at each seat in the House. Please help these folks out if you can!
posted by Chrysostom at 8:01 PM on September 8, 2017 [44 favorites]


VIRGINIA HOUSE ELECTIONS - HD 1 to 5

(introduction to series)

===

1st District
Currently GOP seat
R cand: Terry Kilgore (incumbent)
D cand: Alicia Kallen

Rural district in the extreme western tip of the state, 94.7% white. Incumbent first elected in 1993. No D candidate in 2013 or 2015. Trump won district 80-18.

===

2nd District
Currently GOP seat
R cand: Mike Makee
D cand: Jennifer Carroll Foy

DC exurban district, 94.7% white. Incumbent is retiring; lost in 2013 50.6-49.2, but won in 2015 50.5-49.5. Clinton won district 58-37. D candidate is a public defender. This HD is a Ballotpedia Race To Watch and a flippable Priority district.

===

3rd District
Currently GOP seat
R cand: James Morefield (incumbent)
D cand: Bill Bunch, Jr.

Rural western district on WV border, 95.8% white. Incumbent first elected in 2009; won 70-30 in 2013, no D candidate in 2015. Trump won district 81-16.

===

4th District
Currently GOP seat
R cand: Todd Pillion (incumbent)
D cand: none

Rural western district, 96.7% white. Incumbent first elected in a 2014 special. No D candidate in 2013, R won 66-34 in 2014, no D candidate in 2015. Trump won district 76-21.

===

5th District
Currently GOP seat
R cand: Israel O'Quinn (incumbent)
D cand: none

Rural western district on TN border, 94.4% white. Incumbent first elected in 2011. No D candidate in 2013 or 2015. Trump won district 75-21.

===

Next time: 6-10.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:02 PM on September 8, 2017 [44 favorites]


Sorry if this has been mentioned already: Pod Save the People had a special episode today about DACA. It's both affecting and informative - if you need a primer on DACA, or you know someone who does, it's a pretty good one.

One of the people he talked to was Eric Columbus, former special counsel for Homeland Security, and I mention this because, as I'm reading through the thread, people are worried about ICE/CBP getting their hands on the list of DACA applicants and all their information. Eric Columbus was asked about that and he said they did their level best to build a wall between DACA and any law enforcement agencies. DACA is run out of the Office of US Citizenship and Immigration Services, which is not a law enforcement agency, and doesn't share any of the same goals or processes as a law enforcement agency. Their goal is to help people become citizens. They are not required to do ICE's job for them and they have no desire to do so either.

He also said that currently ICE is still prioritizing criminals over non-criminals, at least in theory. Trump's memos back in January expanded the scope of what crimes were considered relevant, but it didn't change the fact that non-criminals are not a priority for removal. In theory. Point is, anyone who was granted a DACA permit is necessarily not a criminal, so even if ICE had their information, they wouldn't be specifically targeted.

That's not much re-assurance, certainly not as much as I would like. But it sounds like DACA recipients can be cautiously optimistic, for now.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 8:03 PM on September 8, 2017 [7 favorites]




so even if ICE had their information, they wouldn't be specifically targeted.

I don't believe that at all. Management might believe that, but field people are going to go for the easy win. They're counting on the 'we only go after the criminals' line to automatically prejudice opinion against anyone they grab. Oh, must have been a criminal, then.
posted by ctmf at 8:13 PM on September 8, 2017 [3 favorites]


Chrysostom, you are a treasure.

Aw, shucks.

Anyway, District 2 is a good opportunity for a progressive. Then we have a pretty fallow stretch, but there's good stuff after HD-10 or so.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:17 PM on September 8, 2017 [2 favorites]


Excel Students Detained by Border Patrol. Excel High School is a charter school in Boston, which has declared itself a sanctuary city. Problem is, they took a trip to the White Mountains, nowhere near the border, but ICE and the local police decided to set up an immigration checkpoint on I-93 and they got caught.
posted by adamg at 8:27 PM on September 8, 2017 [19 favorites]



In addition to RBG, I'd put at least a half dozen other Jewish women in government and business ahead of her as well, including Barbara Boxer and Dianne Feinstein

ELENA KAGAN! And, from beyond the grave, Bella Abzug, who forgot more about hats than trump will ever know.


Janet Yellen.
posted by jgirl at 8:29 PM on September 8, 2017 [7 favorites]


ICE field people don't have access to any DACA information unless their management gets it from USCIS. It's a different department. They have to request the information, USCIS has the ability to deny or slowroll them, and it should leave a paper trail that's FOIA-able.

And honestly, the "easy win" for them is most likely checkpoints and raids and dragnet sweeps. Which have the added benefit of letting them kick down doors and play cops and robbers. Targeting someone specific means, like, going to their house, probably in the suburbs, and knocking on the door - not fun at all - and DACA recipients are awfully sympathetic targets, that's the whole point of the program.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 8:35 PM on September 8, 2017 [3 favorites]


you allied with Stalin to crush Hitler. but you also unleashed the nuke on some Asians to save a lot of white lives.

what's wrong with threatening to nuke the government to save a ton of brown lives, particularly when you're already threatening to nuke a bunch more brown lives?


Who are you talking to? About what?
posted by Joseph Gurl at 8:37 PM on September 8, 2017 [12 favorites]


Election Integrity Commission members accuse New Hampshire voters of fraud ( Dave Weigel, WaPo)
The accusation arose Thursday morning, when Shawn Jasper, the speaker of New Hampshire's Republican-run House of Representatives, released data on same-day registrants that he'd obtained from the secretary of state's office. In November 2016, 6,540 voters had registered to vote on Election Day. As of Aug. 30, just 1,014 of those voters had obtained a New Hampshire drivers license. A few hundred voters did not obtain state licenses but had registered cars in the state.

That was enough for Jasper to allege thousands of fraudulent votes — and for Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach, the vice chairman of the commission, to flatly allege that fraudulent voters might have stolen the state's four electoral votes and a U.S. Senate seat away from Republicans.

[...]

Kobach apparently made no attempt to contact voters who'd cast ballots but held out-of-state IDs. Thursday night, The Washington Post asked voters who'd done so to tell their stories; three did so within 60 minutes — college students, who were living in New Hampshire but did not change their licenses.
(Emphasis mine)

(h/t Joseph Gurl for a different link to Weigel's Twitter which led me to this.)
posted by Room 641-A at 8:39 PM on September 8, 2017 [20 favorites]


In like an hour Weigel got more real information than Kobach did. So funny.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 8:42 PM on September 8, 2017 [14 favorites]


Okay, so I'm picturing something like Kris Kobach and Scott Walker are brothers, and Eric Trump and Don Jr. are a part of it, and it's like a Freaky Friday thing, but that's where I get stuck.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:42 PM on September 8, 2017 [1 favorite]


What tool are you talking about? Chuck Schumer?
posted by Joseph Gurl at 8:48 PM on September 8, 2017 [3 favorites]


Obligatory Scott Walker PSA
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:49 PM on September 8, 2017 [3 favorites]


I think anem0ne is saying that Democrats should refuse to raise the debt ceiling or fund the government until the Dreamers are protected by law.
posted by Justinian at 8:50 PM on September 8, 2017 [8 favorites]


If the Democrats end up being held responsible by a large fraction of the electorate for the US defaulting on its debt, that'll be a pyrrhic victory at best.
posted by Coventry at 8:51 PM on September 8, 2017 [9 favorites]


Ah, that sorta makes sense. But who are the "millions"?
posted by Joseph Gurl at 8:52 PM on September 8, 2017




Oh, also for people in blue states looking for something to do for immigrants, here's something from Brittany Packnett: ICE has to borrow/lease local jail space when they detain someone - they don't have enough facilities nationwide. So they sign contracts with local authorities. So this is something you can talk to your local authorities about. They're doing ICE a favor; they're not required to let them use that space.

Policing in general is almost entirely local and I don't know anywhere so blue that their police couldn't use a watchful eye.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 8:53 PM on September 8, 2017 [14 favorites]


I think my decoder ring is broken. But hey!
posted by Joseph Gurl at 8:56 PM on September 8, 2017


So you would give up one of the only bits of leverage the Democrats have to save those immigrants on the off chance that letting them go will win you the next election?

And you think this course of action is the best and only way to achieve your goal because?
posted by showbiz_liz at 9:01 PM on September 8, 2017 [5 favorites]


anem0ne: Nope, I wouldn't. Discussed this earlier. Your accusations of my bad faith are quite grating.
posted by Coventry at 9:03 PM on September 8, 2017 [7 favorites]


The only thing -- the ONLY THING -- stopping them from raising the debt limit willy-nilly without Democratic assent is other Republicans.

Then the Dems don't have to publicly threaten to shut the government down.
posted by Coventry at 9:06 PM on September 8, 2017 [1 favorite]


The debt limit is about money we already owe not about future debt. You mostly don't threaten to screw innocent people even to protect others. It's like deliberately shooting hostages so that the terrorists can't blackmail you with them. Like... it kinda makes tactical sense but it's generally, you know, frowned upon.

The government shutdown is another story. That would be a legitimate strategy. I'm not sure if it would be effective or successful though which is how you should judge such things.
posted by Justinian at 9:09 PM on September 8, 2017 [8 favorites]


Rush Limbaugh forced to flee "liberal hoax" hurricane.

That would be "noted tough on crime, anti-drug crusader/Vicodin addict who was busted for doctor shopping Rush Limbaugh." So, par for the course.
posted by Room 641-A at 9:11 PM on September 8, 2017 [11 favorites]


I don't love our circular firing squads.
posted by Mental Wimp at 9:48 PM on September 8, 2017 [44 favorites]


I think two things are being conflated: the debt ceiling and a government shutdown. I haven't seen anyone suggest Democrats are using or should use the debt ceiling as leverage. Indeed, Democrats want to do the opposite and defuse that bomb once and for all by abolishing it: just let the government borrow as much as it needs to in order to meet the obligations Congress already appropriates.

But given the system we have right now (which, yes, is not the system many of us want), saying "I will not vote to fund a government that is going to deport 800,000 young people. If you want to do that, go find the votes yourself," is a good play here. Whether saying all that out loud right now constitutes good tactics is debatable, but if you're objecting to the strategy, what other strategy is there? Would it be good to not govern from crisis-to-crisis and shutdown-to-shutdown? Of course, but I don't know of anyone seriously putting forward the kind of systemic reforms necessary to achieve that right now. Given that, we should use the tools we have right now.

Anyway, Renato Mariotti, a former federal prosecutor, broke down Don Jr.'s statement in hyper-specific detail for Just Security. There's a lot in there that's very carefully worded so you nod your head and say "ok, sure, sure," but on closer reading, realize there are huge holes in the story, like why are we just ignoring the bit in the emails about Russian government support for Trump? And that his statement about planning to hear the information and then consult with lawyers about it is incredibly incriminating. Since "you don’t consult with counsel about casual meetings with entertainers about adoptions," this suggests Don Jr. already believed the meeting would include information about which one could have legal liability. This speaks to his state of mind and could be used by a prosecutor.
posted by zachlipton at 9:54 PM on September 8, 2017 [24 favorites]


University Of California Sues Trump Administration Over DACA Repeal (Emma Spekter, LAist)
UC President Janet Napolitano, who oversaw the implementation of DACA in her former capacity as Secretary of Homeland Security during the Obama administration, released a statement on Friday calling DACA's repeal "unlawful" and "contrary to our national values."
posted by Room 641-A at 10:00 PM on September 8, 2017 [27 favorites]


Wow, the president of UC made a statement. How brave of her. Maybe her next move could be banning Nazis from recruiting on UC campuses?
posted by Yowser at 10:11 PM on September 8, 2017 [6 favorites]


And just to be clear, this isn't whataboutism, the lawsuit is great, but I'm really tired of UC president and chancellors making STRONGLY WORDED STATEMENTS about white supremacy (while doing fuck all about the white supremacists that are running rampant on their campuses)
posted by Yowser at 10:15 PM on September 8, 2017 [7 favorites]


She made a statement about the lawsuit they filed.
posted by Room 641-A at 3:06 AM on September 9, 2017 [30 favorites]


Excel Students Detained by Border Patrol. Excel High School is a charter school in Boston, which has declared itself a sanctuary city. Problem is, they took a trip to the White Mountains, nowhere near the border, but ICE and the local police decided to set up an immigration checkpoint on I-93 and they got caught.


The nuns who chaperoned us on field trips always told us to lie, even if we only could nod our heads.
posted by tilde at 3:17 AM on September 9, 2017 [5 favorites]


I wish Napolitano the best of luck with that lawsuit but i wouldn't hold my breath. It seems unlikely to succeed to me.
posted by Justinian at 3:19 AM on September 9, 2017 [1 favorite]


Excel Students Detained by Border Patrol.

the students detained were enrolled in Excel’s 7th grade and 11 grade classes.

ICE and Border Control are criminal organizations. They are currently the most eager and competent terror/violence organs of whatever you call the dark thing controlling the government. Do not talk to them. If you are related to an employee of ICE/Border Control, do not consider them a member of your family. If you are able to help and protect anybody threatened by them, it is your duty to do so. If the future political balance ever offers the opportunity to destroy ICE and heavily restructure/reconstitute Border Patrol, it is our duty to take that opportunity.
posted by Rust Moranis at 3:49 AM on September 9, 2017 [64 favorites]


Missed the edit window: it's border patrol, of course, not control. It's not yet 5 am and they're fucking fascist thugs so gimme a break here.
posted by Rust Moranis at 3:56 AM on September 9, 2017 [3 favorites]


I was going to make a comment about how ICE is one of the few prominent agencies mostly without rogue (a la the Park Service) or former employees speaking out and then I realized I had to clarify that by rogue I meant truth-teller.
posted by Room 641-A at 4:05 AM on September 9, 2017 [7 favorites]


I was going to make a comment about how ICE is one of the few prominent agencies mostly without rogue (a la the Park Service) or former employees speaking out and then I realized I had to clarify that by rogue I meant truth-teller.


As far as they're concerned, this isn't things going wrong but an extension of their normal. Also job security. If roughing people up is something you're into, well, do we have an administration for you!
posted by A Terrible Llama at 4:59 AM on September 9, 2017


Park Service: Nature! Only You Can Prevent Forest Fires! This land is your land! This land is my land! We won't be bullied!

ICE: If you are standing under those things which you people call 'trees' we will shoot you. This land is my land.

People in ICE love hierarchy and love authority and being told what to do. They are thugs and bullies and simpletons. Doesn't matter if it's stupid or cruel or even a waste of time. They're people for whom 'just following orders' is a perfectly acceptable thing to say that requires not one second's reflection. They might complain about management up the food chain as they eat ham sandwiches and lick mayonnaise off their fingers, but as long as they can menace occasionally, they're cool with whatever they're told, and if they get to rough someone up all the better. Also, rad costumes.

Source: my extended family/hometown produces these people. See also, why I would never live less than four hundred miles away from my extended family. This is it; I'll never live one inch closer. They are as awful as you would imagine and they don't really 'stand for' anything.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 5:15 AM on September 9, 2017 [22 favorites]


They might complain about management up the food chain as they eat ham sandwiches and lick mayonnaise off their fingers

Hey man, there's nothing wrong with mayonnaise. No need to gatekeep mayo-americans or convene the circular condiment firing-squad.
posted by Rust Moranis at 5:31 AM on September 9, 2017 [9 favorites]


Hey man, there's nothing wrong with mayonnaise. No need to gatekeep mayo-americans or convene the circular condiment firing-squad.

Yeah, I hesitated on that one. Was trying to illustrate jarring, mindless physicality, only succeeded in demeaning mayonnaise.

Sorry mayonnaise. You know I love you.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 5:41 AM on September 9, 2017 [24 favorites]


MetaFilter: Trying to illustrate jarring, mindless physicality, only succeeded in demeaning mayonnaise.
posted by Faint of Butt at 6:11 AM on September 9, 2017 [59 favorites]


Trump is making Americans see the U.S. the way the rest of the world already did (WaPo (@suzyhans))
Are ordinary people responsible for their governments’ foreign policy? It’s hard to blame the millions of Americans living in poverty, who have been just as victimized by the injustices of the 20th century as those abroad. But many other average Americans with dangerously naive ideas about themselves and their country grow up to become teachers, foreign correspondents, presidents. What they did not learn as children will not be cured by what they learn at elite universities, in self-regarding metropolitan centers or in graduate schools that for the most part tell them that the United States is the center of the planet and that they are the smartest on it. This kind of American exceptionalism is a product of 200 years of disconnection from our country’s acts around the world — a geographic, intellectual and emotional isolation.
posted by kingless at 7:57 AM on September 9, 2017 [39 favorites]


Mexico to US: how can we help you with hurricane Harvey?
Trump to Cuba: fuck you amd your commie hurricane

Trump quietly extends Cuba ‘trading with the enemy’ embargo — just as Irma pummels island
posted by Room 641-A at 8:03 AM on September 9, 2017 [33 favorites]


Jenna McLaughlin in Foreign Policy: More White, More Male, More Jesus: CIA Employees Fear Pompeo Is Quietly Killing the Agency’s Diversity Mandate. Director's religious beliefs seem to be bleeding into and influencing the workplace culture.
posted by MonkeyToes at 8:15 AM on September 9, 2017 [23 favorites]


Important people don't have name plates on their desk. They are important enough that everyone knows who they are

Toward the end of when I worked in DC, I was wearing 6 photo-ID badges on a chain around my neck.
I was often stopped in the street by someone saying, 'You must be important!'
I would ask how many badges they thought the president wore.
posted by MtDewd at 8:22 AM on September 9, 2017 [17 favorites]


If you want to demean mayonnaise you first have to try kewpie. Then you can justly demean regular mayonnaise for the rest of your life.
posted by srboisvert at 8:26 AM on September 9, 2017 [3 favorites]


I'm here to stand up for the reputation of ham sandwiches, which were also needlessly slandered. Mayo I don't care for, but I respect your right to enjoy the condiments of your choice.
posted by clawsoon at 8:31 AM on September 9, 2017 [3 favorites]


It’s hard to blame the millions of Americans living in poverty, who have been just as victimized by the injustices of the 20th century as those abroad. But many other average Americans with dangerously naive ideas about themselves and their country grow up to become teachers, foreign correspondents, presidents. What they did not learn as children will not be cured by what they learn at elite universities, in self-regarding metropolitan centers or in graduate schools that for the most part tell them that the United States is the center of the planet and that they are the smartest on it.
One of the really telling things about American media culture is the tendency to act as if there are two kinds of Americans: people living in poverty and people who attend elite universities, go to graduate school, and live in metropolitan centers, by which they mean San Francisco, LA, the Acela Corridor, and some parts of Chicago. It's bizarre, and it's all over the place in high and middle-brow American media.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 8:32 AM on September 9, 2017 [39 favorites]


I'm both kinds of people (grew up broke, went to graduate school). And in fact, I definitely did learn the non-exceptionalist version of American history in "elite universities, in self-regarding metropolitan centers [and] in graduate schools." And I'm still learning it. So, so much for that flat argument.
posted by Miko at 8:49 AM on September 9, 2017 [19 favorites]


Important people don't have name plates on their desk

This whole thing immediately made me think of Michael Scott.
posted by Room 641-A at 9:04 AM on September 9, 2017 [1 favorite]


On the issue of nameplates or ID badges or the like and their false role as a status symbol (and, more generally, the persistent boorishness of the Trumps), I'm reminded, once again, of something Umberto Eco said about cellphones:
In the last category (which includes, on the bottom rung of the social ladder, the purchasers of fake portable phones) are those people who wish to show in public that they are greatly in demand, especially for complex business discussions. Their conversations, which we are obliged to overhear in airports, restaurants, or trains, always involve monetary transactions, missing shipments of metal sections, an unpaid bill for a crate of neckties, and other things that, the speaker believes, are very Rockefellerian.

Now, helping to perpetuate the system of class distinctions is an atrocious mechanism ensuring that, thanks to some atavistic proletarian defect, the nouveau riche, even when he earns enormous sums, won't know how to use a fish knife or will hang a plush monkey in the rear window of his Ferrari or put a San Gennaro on the dashboard of his private jet, or (when speaking his native Italian) use English words like "management." Therefore he will not be invited by the Duchesse de Guermantes (and he will rack his brain trying to figure out why not; after all, he has a yacht so long it could almost serve as a bridge across the English Channel).

What these people don't realize is that Rockefeller doesn't need a portable telephone; he has a spacious room full of secretaries so efficient that at the very worst, if his grandfather is dying, the chauffeur comes and whispers something in his ear. The man with power is the man who is not required to answer every call; on the contrary, he is always—as the saying goes—in a meeting. Even at the lowest managerial level, the two symbols of success are a key to the executive washroom and a secretary who asks, "Would you care to leave a message?"

So anyone who flaunts a portable phone as a symbol of power is, on the contrary, announcing to all and sundry his desperate, subaltern position, in which he is obliged to snap to attention, even when making love, if the CEO happens to telephone; he has to pursue creditors day and night to keep his head above water; and he is persecuted by the bank, even at his daughter's First Holy Communion, because of an overdraft. The fact that he uses, ostentatiously, his cellular phone is proof that he doesn't know these things, and it is the confirmation of his social banishment, beyond appeal.
posted by jackbishop at 9:10 AM on September 9, 2017 [52 favorites]


I hereby declare that I will personally shut down the federal government AND default on the debt if you dare to impugn the tangy zip of my Miracle Whip, buster.
posted by FelliniBlank at 9:27 AM on September 9, 2017 [4 favorites]


> Trump is making Americans see the U.S. the way the rest of the world already did (WaPo (@suzyhans))
Suzy Hansen FPP previously.
posted by runcifex at 9:29 AM on September 9, 2017 [1 favorite]


And just to be clear, this isn't whataboutism, the lawsuit is great, but I'm really tired of UC president and chancellors making STRONGLY WORDED STATEMENTS about white supremacy (while doing fuck all about the white supremacists that are running rampant on their campuses)

What "white supremacists running rampant" are you talking about? You do realize that anyone can walk onto any UC campus at any time and post flyers, right? Otherwise please cite an example that isn't just the particular chapter of Young Republicans trying to stir up shit.

What they did not learn as children will not be cured by what they learn at elite universities, in self-regarding metropolitan centers or in graduate schools that for the most part tell them that the United States is the center of the planet and that they are the smartest on it.

I would like to know what elite universities she's talking about, because that was not my university experience. Perhaps my UC doesn't count as elite? In which case, most university students are not enrolled at "elite" institutions and this is just a toothless dig that looks good on paper but doesn't actually make any sense.
posted by oneirodynia at 9:42 AM on September 9, 2017 [10 favorites]


something Umberto Eco said about cellphones:

Now you known I love me some Eco, but the implicit snobbery of that whole passage is well-nigh Fussellian. This kind of mockery of the oafish aspirant never strikes me as being anything but a snide reminder of the writer's own privilege.

(Cf., as well, our man Orwell, capable of writing a sentence like "There is a widespread feeling that any civilisation in which Socialism was a reality would bear the same relation to our own as a brand-new bottle of colonial burgundy bears to a few spoonfuls of first-class Beaujolais." Wow.)
posted by adamgreenfield at 9:52 AM on September 9, 2017 [15 favorites]


I loved this exchange from this week's Lovett or Leave It show:

Sasheer Zamata: "Maybe Trump is kinda like a Confederate statue...I saw something online that was like a timeline of when Confederate statues popped up, and a lot of them happened to combat civil rights like, when we were progressing, when we were making movements, then people were getting scared and they're like, 'Well, we'll put a statue up, so that reminds people that the people who run this town are white...' and it's rewriting history - literally - it is erasing what happened and creating a false narrative as if these losers were heroes....We have propelled someone so high in our government as if they deserved to be there, when he did not do the work to get there...just to erase the progress that we had made."

Negin Farsad: "Yeah, 'cos we were getting a little cocky you know what I mean, we were like, 'We've got a black President! Mindy Kaling has a show! Beyonce is singing about feminism!...Pleated front khakis are kinda on the outs!' We were getting cocky about our progress and then it was like 'oh yeah?' and then we got the big Confederate statue in the Oval Office."
posted by crepesofwrath at 9:56 AM on September 9, 2017 [83 favorites]


Sadly, it's much easier to topple a Confederate statue than it is to get rid of the Confederate in Chief.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:03 AM on September 9, 2017 [4 favorites]


I have no doubt that Orwell was accurately recording a fact there, though. That's no crime.
posted by Devonian at 10:15 AM on September 9, 2017 [3 favorites]


The GOP is Poised to Become Trumpier as Trump Becomes Less Trumpy
I still have my doubts, but Axios's Mike Allen says that President Trump likes the new, bipartisan President Trump: [...]

So maybe Trump will become a centrist Republican -- it's possible. But if so, it's awkward, because as Trump becomes less Trumpy, his party is becoming more so, as The New York Times notes:
President Trump’s mercurial politics are already rattling Republicans heading into the 2018 midterm campaign, sparking Trump-like primary challenges in two high-profile Senate races and a host of lower-profile House contests, while pushing a growing number of moderate House members to the exits. [...]

... even Republicans who are uneasy about Mr. Trump say lawmakers need to understand the grip he holds on the conservative grass roots.

“If you would go to my county Republican clubs right now, they are all about Trump,” said Representative Tom Rooney, Republican of Florida. “He is the party.”
What happens to a cult based on the cult leader's rabble-rousing rhetoric if the rhetoric changes? We may find out.

On the other hand, I think Trump will stick with the right-wing moves that don't get him very much bad press -- fox-guarding-the-hen-house deregulation, extremist judges, Democratic voter suppression. He'll stick with the wall, both because he's a bone-deep racist and because he'll confuse the fans' fervor with widespread popular approval. Who knows? Maybe he'll make this crazy mix work, getting praise one day from the elite media for a centrist move and then throwing out red meat for the rabble the next day. But the GOP is going to be a strange cult when the cult leader routinely forgets the dogma.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:26 AM on September 9, 2017 [8 favorites]


crepesofwrath: I loved this exchange from this week's Lovett or Leave It show

That part really stuck with me, too. DJT totally is a cheap, mass-produced confederate statue.
posted by Superplin at 11:40 AM on September 9, 2017 [7 favorites]


And if you're looking for places to put the cheap confederate statues, they'd fit right in with the decor of the lobbies of Trump's buildings.
posted by oneswellfoop at 12:06 PM on September 9, 2017 [5 favorites]


Maybe he'll make this crazy mix work, getting praise one day from the elite media for a centrist move and then throwing out red meat for the rabble the next day.

This is extremely likely. The elite media class is still begging him daily to do something, literally anything that they can point to as the bipartisan pivot. It's the exact opposite of Obama, no matter how actually bipartisan he was while breaking his back to give Republicans everything the asked for, it was never, ever enough to earn bipartisanship credits. Meanwhile they're digging up the Tip and Reagan stories for Trump and "Chuck and Nancy" the moment Trump agrees not to blow up his own government, immediately forgetting how he was praising literal Nazis for the last two weeks before that moment.

If "Chuck and Nancy" are stupid enough to give him an actual win on something like an infrastructure bill, and Trump manages to stay not-completely-crazy for even one day while signing it, that would buy him 3 years of "Trump loves Chuck and Nancy" stories from the Maggie-Habermanites at the NYT and probably re-election, no matter how many times he praises Nazis or how many racist policies and extremist judges in those same 3 years. All they need is one thing and he'll be the white Republican bipartisan savior the NYT always wanted, no matter what else is going on as well.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:12 PM on September 9, 2017 [34 favorites]


MetaFilter: Dude U have no idea! I walked away from $4 million annually to do this
posted by petebest at 1:52 PM on September 9, 2017 [1 favorite]


Activists erect then take down Confederate statue of Jefferson Beauregard Sessions III

Well played, "activists". Well played.
posted by petebest at 2:05 PM on September 9, 2017 [57 favorites]


I just need to scream about Pruitt referring to climate change as the double c word.

< blood-curdling scream >

Thank you for affording me this screaming opportunity
posted by angrycat at 2:15 PM on September 9, 2017 [13 favorites]


Y'all, you need to see the pictures of that Sessions statue. That's beautiful.
posted by threeturtles at 2:20 PM on September 9, 2017 [9 favorites]


They certainly captured the Sessions "Jim Crow Henson Creature Shop" angle
posted by Rust Moranis at 2:24 PM on September 9, 2017 [16 favorites]


> Another Fox News departure: Eric Bolling 'parting ways' with Fox, one month after outside reporting revealed numerous accusations he had sent inappropriate text messages to coworkers.

On the one hand, fuck that guy.

On the other hand, this is awful: Eric Bolling’s 19-Year-Old Son Found Dead

Heartbreaking for the kid's mother, who absent some sort of open relationship situation has been victimized twice.
posted by tonycpsu at 2:30 PM on September 9, 2017 [7 favorites]


Then the Dems don't have to publicly threaten to shut the government down.

The important thing to remember when fighting a psycho with a straight razor, is to ONLY use Marquess of Queensberry Rules. I mean sure, you'll probably end up with a slit throat, but you will retain the moral high ground.
posted by happyroach at 2:36 PM on September 9, 2017 [25 favorites]


The important thing to remember when fighting a psycho with a straight razor, is to ONLY use Marquess of Queensberry Rules.

There exists a professional wrestling variation. Ric Flair won the match, and did not vote for Donald Trump. There's a joke in here somewhere, I can't find it, enjoy.
posted by saysthis at 3:28 PM on September 9, 2017 [1 favorite]


I'm sorry, mayonnaise is disgusting
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 3:55 PM on September 9, 2017 [5 favorites]


Meanwhile they're digging up the Tip and Reagan stories for Trump and "Chuck and Nancy" the moment Trump agrees not to blow up his own government, immediately forgetting how he was praising literal Nazis for the last two weeks before that moment.

Yep. Peter Baker did the honors at the Times today: Bound to No Party, Trump Upends 150 Years of Two-Party Rule. The problem with this take is that it pretends that the Republican Party was ever really about what Paul Ryan pretended it was. What he said after Charlottesville, that's just as much, really even more, the Republican Party as Ryan's "Better Way" crap. It makes him just as much a Republican as, say, Steve King. And yet gullible reporters keep buying this pivot nonsense only to get fooled time after time.
posted by zachlipton at 3:58 PM on September 9, 2017 [17 favorites]


I'm sorry, mayonnaise is disgusting

DRTM
posted by Rust Moranis at 4:01 PM on September 9, 2017 [2 favorites]


Oh hey, it's just Trump toying with the most dangerous idea imaginable if you think an increased likelihood of the use of nuclear weapons is a bad thing: Trump review leans toward proposing mini-nuke
The Trump administration is considering proposing smaller, more tactical nuclear weapons that would cause less damage than traditional thermonuclear bombs — a move that would give military commanders more options but could also make the use of atomic arms more likely.

A high-level panel created by President Donald Trump to evaluate the nuclear arsenal is reviewing various options for adding a more modern "low-yield" bomb, according to sources involved in the review, to further deter Russia, North Korea or other potential nuclear adversaries.

Approval of such weapons — whether designed to be delivered by missile, aircraft or special forces — would mark a major reversal from the Obama administration, which sought to limit reliance on nuclear arms and prohibited any new weapons or military capabilities. And critics say it would only make the actual use of atomic arms more likely.
Because what the world really needs are more useful nuclear bombs, right?
posted by zachlipton at 4:04 PM on September 9, 2017 [12 favorites]


Trump is the mayonnaise President.
posted by guiseroom at 4:05 PM on September 9, 2017 [5 favorites]


Wow, there's actually something more maddeningly pointless and time-wasting than interminable series of interviews with moronic Trump voters: interminable series of interviews with moronic people who opt out of hurricane evacuation.
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:27 PM on September 9, 2017 [7 favorites]


You know how Trump loves pitting his aides against each other and having them fight?

That's what this "new bipartisan Trump" is about: Trump playing The Apprentice with congress.
posted by ryanrs at 4:31 PM on September 9, 2017 [36 favorites]


It feels like we are in the eerily calm eye of Hurricane Donald.

After weeks (months!) of one foully destructive gust of drama after another (lying about easily verified things, sexual stalking, demagoguery, Russian collusion, money laundering, emoluments violations, the clown car of idiot staffers, Republican evildoing, Charlottesville, Arpaio, LGBT, nuclear saber rattling, ACA repeal, ending DACA, repeated hypocrisy, nepotism, etc., etc.) we have a brief respite where the winds have died down a bit, and some much-needed legislation is getting passed.

I don't trust it. Not at all.
posted by darkstar at 4:35 PM on September 9, 2017 [55 favorites]


Yep. Peter Baker did the honors at the Times today

I hadn't even read that shit when I wrote that, it was entirely predictable. The NYT should just start paying me an editor's salary, because apparently all that job involves is waking up each and every single day and thinking, "who should I assign today's Trump felating bullshit to today? Maggie? Nah, she did three last week, let's call on Pete today."

Where's my six digit salary?
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:39 PM on September 9, 2017 [5 favorites]


Trump playing The Apprentice with congress.
If he's going to turn the Presidency into a game show, then send in Howie Mandel and 15 models with suitcases for a round of "Deal or No Deal". That'll keep him occupied and out of trouble at least until the midterms.

Just keep him away from "Are You Smarter Than A Fifth Grader?"
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:41 PM on September 9, 2017 [4 favorites]


The writers are at it again.

Soros and Reptilians Controlling the World: Yair Netanyahu Posts Meme Rife With anti-Semitic ThemesEx-KKK leader David Duke comes to the defense of Prime Minister Netanyahu's son after he posts a meme that suggests a conspiracy is behind his family's growing legal problems
posted by tonycpsu at 5:46 PM on September 9, 2017 [7 favorites]


Nonsense. Everyone knows it was the Red Lectroids and the Reverse Vampires, with the lead pipe, in the conservatory.
posted by delfin at 6:36 PM on September 9, 2017 [4 favorites]


That's what this "new bipartisan Trump" is about: Trump playing The Apprentice with congress.

I'm down with this because Nancy and Chuck are way better at their jobs than are Paul and Mitch
posted by tivalasvegas at 6:40 PM on September 9, 2017 [7 favorites]


The NYT should just start paying me an editor's salary,

Dibs on Public Editor. I are emminently qualified.

*goes back to sleep*
*farts*
posted by petebest at 6:41 PM on September 9, 2017 [5 favorites]


I call dibs on HHS secretary when the inevitable MeFi cabal coup d'etat ensues

I just sneezed and there was a minor orgasm so this is totally happening, people

feeling good

posted by tivalasvegas at 6:43 PM on September 9, 2017 [8 favorites]


Guys, am I right in understanding that the continuing resolution just passed as part of the Chuck and Nancy deal doesn't change the Senate parliamentarians ruling that reconciliation expires Sept. 30? I.e. starting Oct. 1, reconciliation is off the table until an FY2018 Budget is passed?
posted by susiswimmer at 6:48 PM on September 9, 2017


Right they are unrelated.
posted by Justinian at 6:50 PM on September 9, 2017 [1 favorite]


You are correct. They need a new budget resolution to do anything under reconciliation for next year, and the GOP is currently arguing about what should be in it.

There is still the possibility they try to ram through a health care bill at the last minute before the end of the month. Lindsey Graham hasn't given up and is going to be making some noise about Cassidy-Graham this week (there's a really excellent WaPo explainer on the bill behind that link), and with the debt ceiling/CR off the table for a couple of months, there's slightly more breathing room during which they could try to pass it. I'm not convinced, and I'm really not convinced the House is on board, but it's certainly possible.
posted by zachlipton at 6:58 PM on September 9, 2017 [3 favorites]


How is it possible that Graham and Cassidy managed to come up with a bill that combines the worst aspects of "skinny repeal" and the Medicaid bullshit in the non-skinny plans. If you sat down and tried to come up with the worst possible plan in order to destroy health care in America it would look a lot like Cassidy-Graham.
posted by Justinian at 7:06 PM on September 9, 2017 [2 favorites]


Given that Congress has only 8 working days scheduled for the remainder of September, I doubt they are going to take another run at Obamacare. After September 30, the repeal budget resolution expires. I'll never say never, nevertheless.
posted by JackFlash at 7:10 PM on September 9, 2017 [2 favorites]


If there's a credible chance of killing the ACA, Republicans will cancel their vacations, roll out the cots, and sleep in the Capitol building to get it done.
posted by tonycpsu at 7:11 PM on September 9, 2017 [4 favorites]


It's all terrible, but the "screw over blue states" redistribution aspect is really something. The bill converts Medicaid funding into a capped block grant to each state. But if they gave each a grant based on how much they spent last year, that would be somehow unfair to the states that expanded Medicaid and actually took care of their citizens, because those states spend more than the ones that told people to fuck off and die. So they take money away from high-population expansion states New York, Massachusetts, and California, and hand it to non-expansion states to make it more "fair." And then all the funding just ends completely in 10 years and the states are on their own.

A "give the money to the states and let them deal with it" plan is bad, because many states would use that to hurt people, but the formula for how much each state gets here is so blatantly deliberately cruel. And remember that Graham is usually called a moderate Republican.
posted by zachlipton at 7:19 PM on September 9, 2017 [21 favorites]


blatantly deliberately cruel

That the Republican party loudly and aggressively trumpets its cruelty to non-old-white-men with the barest minimum of media pushback is the hallmark of this era. And by "this era" I mean like the last five months.

For fuck's sake that mini-nukes bullshit is just setting the table for world-ending destruction through idiocy and diseased minds. It's got barely a teaspoon of coverage.

It's just boggling that slightly less than half of everybody who wants to be counted are happy with this. And by "happy" I mean not freaking out or desperately trying to slam on the brakes. Am I the only one around here who gives a shit about the rules?! Mark it zero!
posted by petebest at 7:51 PM on September 9, 2017 [5 favorites]


And remember that Graham is usually called a moderate Republican.

My dad had a story about moderation. A woman brought her puppy to the vet, back in the day when some breeds of dog routinely had their tails docked. She asked the vet how they would remove it. "Why, all at once madam," he replied. "Oh! That's too cruel!" she said in horror, "Couldn't you do it a little at a time?"

I miss my dad.
posted by Joe in Australia at 7:57 PM on September 9, 2017 [50 favorites]


That's what this "new bipartisan Trump" is about: Trump playing The Apprentice with congress.

IS IT JUST NOW WE'RE NOTICING THIS I MEAN COME ON HIS ENTIRE LIFE DO WE REALLY ALL NEED "omg seriously" WAKEUP MOMENTS because like, is it not just obvious that it's a lifetime of being indulged for dominance games at the whims of people trying to take his money? He started out as a millionaire with a donation from daddy and now Russia won't even lend him money and he might take down Deutchbank I mean YOU NOTICE THE THING RIGHT
posted by saysthis at 8:01 PM on September 9, 2017 [12 favorites]


From live Irma coverage: "So parents, if your kids are in school in Gainsville or Tallahassee, you can relax: Irma will only be a Cat 1 then. It's changed significantly since we started tracking it, though it feels like we've been tracking it for a year now."

Trump time dilation strikes again.
posted by tilde at 8:06 PM on September 9, 2017 [1 favorite]


Also the thing where I'm like OF COURSE SCHUMER AND PELOSI DID A DEAL!!! (slap forehead enough capslock) Would they not? Would people not see him for exactly what he is which is a hulk of gratification-seeking need-for-gratification? Would the Dems (or whoever the sane faction may be) not attempt to enthrall him to do some good? Why leave a good zombie (old Hatian agrarian style) to wander the neighbor's fields? Yet alas, what comes for those who betray party and country for a gratification-hungry son of a bitch is the fate of Dr. Frankenstein.

When you try and assemble your fears into a monster that can eat them...well, if there was anything Kek stood for, it's the folly of worshiping ideals that kill you. Trickster god? Loki, American Gods is like, way up already, so come on out, you been seen. But, high five, because damn you fooled everybody.
posted by saysthis at 8:13 PM on September 9, 2017 [2 favorites]


The "deal" that people talk about was Schumer and Pelosi being given everything they were asking for and not giving anything in return. Do people expect them to turn that down? And do what?
posted by Justinian at 8:24 PM on September 9, 2017 [24 favorites]


Do people expect them to turn that down? And do what?

Moral high ground, and all that.

I remember an old Retief story, where an alien race was provoking a crisis in order to have justification to attack an Earth colony world. Naturally Retief goes in and solves the problem, and when he gets back his boss is furious; allowing the aliens to destroy the colony would have allowed the senior diplomat to condemn the aliens actions from an unimpeachable moral high position.

I am reminded of that story a lot when I hear people condemning the deal.
posted by happyroach at 8:34 PM on September 9, 2017 [30 favorites]


wikipedia:
John Keith Laumer was an American science fiction author. Prior to becoming a full-time writer, he was an officer in the United States Air Force and a diplomat in the United States Foreign Service.
(bolding added.)
posted by sebastienbailard at 8:42 PM on September 9, 2017 [10 favorites]


I think part of the problem is using the word "deal" to describe what happened. That implies compromise. It's haggling in the market square and both sides giving some and meeting in the middle. But that's not what happened. Schumer and Pelosi laid out their position, a 3 month clean debt ceiling increase and funding for the government. That's where they started. And Trump said "I accept." They didn't negotiate anything.

That's a deal in the same sense that I made a deal with In-N-Out burger when I walked in and paid $3.45 for a double-double which is listed on their menu for $3.45. I'm a master dealmaker!
posted by Justinian at 8:49 PM on September 9, 2017 [45 favorites]


*makes himself hungry, goes to In-N-Out*
posted by Justinian at 8:51 PM on September 9, 2017 [15 favorites]


Dammit Justinian. Now I want In-N-Out and a double-double at the closest one is over $4.00.
posted by zachlipton at 8:53 PM on September 9, 2017 [3 favorites]


allowing the aliens to destroy the colony would have allowed the senior diplomat to condemn the aliens actions from an unimpeachable moral high position.

(last thing because news) Dude do you think I had a choice the girl and mulligan were both there do you think it is easy being me I mean you do a good thing and the fans I mean look at how they see it it's I can't.

This is most popular headlines of my feedly because like, the name is gone, the topic is gone. Teh FUQ:
Norwegian party’s pledge: Vote for us, we’ll raise your taxes
200+POLITICO - TOP Stories / by John Acher / 1min
Unearthed near Hadrian’s Wall: lost secrets of first Roman soldiers to fight the Picts
2KThe Guardian / by Dalya Alberge / 7h
Dig team stumble across thousands of pristine artefacts at ancient Vindolanda garrison site in Northumberland Archaeologists are likening the discovery to winning the lottery. A Roman cavalry barracks has been unearthed near Hadrian’s Wall, complete with extraordinary military and personal possessions left behind by soldiers and their families almost 2,000 years ago. A treasure trove of thousands
Before Irma hit, a stranger gave the last generator to a crying woman for her ailing father
4KWashington Post: Breaking News, World, US, DC News... / 10h

But even more interesting is what bubbles up in the down-popular headlines. Obama at a high school, Amazon land grabs with dispossessed natives, here's a WaPo editorial about Trump and his tax returns which is kind of lame because really WHY, and here's https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/sep/10/aung-san-suu-kyi-myanmar-rohingya-human-rights rightly told off for not speaking more loudly about Rohinga persecution.

In other words, a quiet news day. No offense to the ongoing tragedies we were numb to before the current gagfest, but what a nice change to have non-orange-rage-asshole and Other Shitty Not White House Fuckery be prominent in my feed for once. I almost felt like Merkel was president.
posted by saysthis at 8:54 PM on September 9, 2017 [2 favorites]


VIRGINIA HOUSE ELECTIONS - HD 6 to 10

intro
1-5

===

6th District
Currently GOP seat
R cand: Jeffrey Campbell (incumbent)
D cand: none

Rural western district, contains Wytheville, 95.9% white. Incumbent first elected in 2013. R won 57-37 in 2013, no D candidate in 2015. Trump won district 76-21. There is an independent candidate, but I can't find a website for him.

===

7th District
Currently GOP seat
R cand: Larry Rush (incumbent)
D cand: Flourette Ketner

Rural western district, includes Blacksburg gerrymander, 92.5% white. Incumbent first elected in 2011. R won 65-35 in 2013, no D candidate in 2015. Trump won district 63-32.

===

8th District
Currently GOP seat
R cand: Greg Habeeb (incumbent)
D cand: Steve McBride

Rural western district, includes Blacksburg and Roanoke gerrymanders, 91.7% white. Incumbent first elected in 2011 special; no D candidate in 2013 or 2015. Trump won district 62-33.

===

9th District
Currently GOP seat
R cand: Charles Poindexter (incumbent)
D cand: Stephanie Cook

Rural western district on TN border, 86.5% white. Incumbent first elected in 2007. No D candidate in 2013 or 2015. Trump won district 70-26.

===

10th District
Currently GOP seat
R cand: Randall Minchew (incumbent)
D cand: Wendy Gooditis

DC exurb district, west of Dulles, 75.5% white. Incumbent first elected in 2011. R won 57-43 in 2013 and 62-38 in 2015. Clinton won district 50-44. Flippable Potential district.

===

Next time: 11-15.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:14 PM on September 9, 2017 [28 favorites]


Editor of Business Insider @jbarro has resolved the mayonnaise question with his pinned tweet.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 9:55 PM on September 9, 2017 [2 favorites]


Hey L.A., #defendDACA protest Sunday at MacArthur Park, 3pm.
posted by Room 641-A at 10:19 PM on September 9, 2017 [10 favorites]


I'm sorry, mayonnaise is disgusting

Monster. I bet you put beans on a fry up.
posted by walrus at 12:14 AM on September 10, 2017 [2 favorites]


Normalizing the President: The Wall Street Journal's Trump problem (Lucia Graves, Guardian).
posted by walrus at 1:24 AM on September 10, 2017 [11 favorites]


I wonder if this whole Trump circus, assuming America survives, will inspire a re-evaulation of the credibility of mainstream media publications. From my view as a foreigner, I'd trust the Washington Post over, say, the New York Times; the Washington Post has broken some important stories and their editorial judgement has been overall fairly reasonable over the last year and change, whereas it's hard to argue that the NYT's focus on Her Emails and prevarication over Trump look particularly intelligent in hindsight.

Then again, I suspect the credibility of mainstream media publications has got very little to do with quality.
posted by Merus at 3:06 AM on September 10, 2017 [5 favorites]


This Twitter thread (from Seth Hanlon, Obama's Special Assistant for Economic Policy) poses the question: just why exactly are the Republicans so committed to keeping Trump's tax returns a secret?
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 3:45 AM on September 10, 2017 [21 favorites]



Hey L.A., #defendDACA protest Sunday at MacArthur Park, 3pm.


Someone left the state out in the rain. I don't think that I can take it, because it took so long to make it, and we'll never have the recipe again...
posted by Devonian at 4:44 AM on September 10, 2017 [11 favorites]


I wonder if this whole Trump circus, assuming America survives, will inspire a re-evaulation of the credibility of mainstream media publications.

Fascinatingly, no it will not. Such a re-evaluation would have to come from said mainstream publications, which, of course they won't question themselves even in the abstract. To do so would be to peek behind the curtains of public opinion manufacturing.

Whatever eyerolls or flurry of "the press f*#3& this up" opinion throw-aways we got in late November of last year was it.
posted by petebest at 4:53 AM on September 10, 2017 [1 favorite]


6th District
Currently GOP seat
D cand: none


So I know it's only about ten months after the losingest loss you've ever losted, DNC, but. It'd be great to see, y'know, an effort. Let's see that swing!
posted by petebest at 5:13 AM on September 10, 2017 [11 favorites]


Normalizing the President: The Wall Street Journal's Trump problem

Not just the WSJ. There were four stories yesterday in the NYT, WaPo, WSJ and AP all telling us how Trump "Broke 150 Years of the Two Party System" because he made one minor agreement with Chuck Schumer. All of them had a pre-planned narrative that Trump is somehow an independent and going against the Republicans, and they waited 8 months to seize on finally the tiniest bit of evidence that could even plausibly be used to support it and then it was on. He's an independent! See, he's breaking Washington! Why was Obama never this bipartisan! MAGA is true!!11!!1!!

Looking at yesterday I don't see how the entire corporate media isn't actively working for his reelection already, just like they worked to elect him in the first place.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:19 AM on September 10, 2017 [55 favorites]


It's not so much that they love T (though the WSJ does, see the excellent Guardian article above) but rather that they need their president to be presidential. They have no other narrative, because they have no imagination. (I wonder how they handled Jefferson answering the White House door in a bathrobe.) So, they desperately grab at anything that makes him appear to understand even basic politics, which he doesn't. I really wish they'd knock that shit off.
posted by Melismata at 5:30 AM on September 10, 2017 [13 favorites]


> They have no other narrative, because they have no imagination.
I don't think it takes too much imagination to entertain the thought that "this is not normal" or "normalcy hasn't been there since X" or stuff. Rather, their mainstreamhood suppresses such thoughts. It's kinda the job description of mainstream.

The medium devours the message. And for this to happen, the medium must not reach a certain level of self-consciousness. The real customers of news media, i.e. those who paid for the advertisements, paid the price precisely for their mainstreamhood and though-censoring abilities. The uncomfortable soul-searching and meaning-seeking must be relegated to a different market sector.
posted by runcifex at 5:44 AM on September 10, 2017 [3 favorites]


American media, culture, and society in general has become a complete morass ever since we started letting economic self interest become our national religion instead of defending our more traditionally collectivist ideals and values like the idea of universal human rights, collective social responsibility, and the common good. We'll never recover enough of a social foundation to do collective self reflection and build consensus for difficult, long term, public interest focused policies and governance without reprioritizing our cultural values. We're a society of fruit flies buzzing around in a jar, going nowhere, at this point, it seems to me.
posted by saulgoodman at 5:59 AM on September 10, 2017 [37 favorites]


I think for the Times especially, but also WaPo and other outlets, part of the desperation to normalize Trump is to justify their earlier coverage. "See, he's not so bad, we weren't catastrophically wrong on how we covered him and Clinton. It's not our fault. Really."

Obviously they've had issues with bothsidesing, the Clinton rules, etc. for longer than Trump, but the particular fervor and defensiveness (Hi Ms. Habermann and Mr. Thrush!) is largely about preserving/protecting their legacy. Sadly, they don't realize yet that this will go down in history as a mistake larger than their Iraq coverage.
posted by chris24 at 6:08 AM on September 10, 2017 [13 favorites]


They were wrong because it never occurred to them that a presidential candidate would not act presidential. Because they have no imagination.
posted by Melismata at 6:13 AM on September 10, 2017 [2 favorites]


I know it's the weekend, and the prezzie is on vacay, but maybe someone should tell him about this little Irma thing.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:08 AM on September 10, 2017


I know it's the weekend, and the prezzie is on vacay, but maybe someone should tell him about this little Irma thing.

If he were a dog we'd be all frantically searching shelves for the biggest, most time-consuming, attention-sucking chew toy available.

The only thing he could do is something dumb. Like decide to go Miami for a photo op this afternoon or send nukes to North Korea or start Tweeting about Rosie O'Donnell. Could be anything.

We're best off if he's in a corner, licking himself or chewing on his foot.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 7:16 AM on September 10, 2017 [18 favorites]


That's what this "new bipartisan Trump" is about: Trump playing The Apprentice with congress.

And just as with The Apprentice, the media is hyping Bipartisan Trump as a far more significant phenomenon than it actually is.

Meanwhile, the New Republic pegs this as their refurbed The Trump Pivot™, and never-Trumper GOP strategist Rick Wilson reminds us, "Trump betrays everyone: wives, business associates, contractors, bankers and now, the leaders of the House and Senate in his own party. They can’t explain this away as [a] 15-dimensional Trump chess game. It’s a dishonest person behaving according to his long-established pattern."
posted by Doktor Zed at 7:18 AM on September 10, 2017 [16 favorites]


@imillhiser (ThinkProgress)
Trump isn't an independent. He's the racist wing of the GOP winning the internal struggle against the anti-government wing.
posted by chris24 at 7:21 AM on September 10, 2017 [65 favorites]


I see he tweeted yesterday that people should list to Governor Scott and evacuate, and also this:
The U.S. Coast Guard, FEMA and all Federal and State brave people are ready. Here comes Irma. God bless everyone!
Irma comin, yo!
posted by Room 641-A at 7:23 AM on September 10, 2017 [4 favorites]


FYI, 24 days between VeryFineNazis to IndependentDealmaker. For comparison, the Times had 600 straight days where they had a story that mentioned Hillary's emails.
posted by chris24 at 7:40 AM on September 10, 2017 [67 favorites]


Rick Wilson reminds us, "Trump betrays everyone: wives, business associates, contractors, bankers and now, the leaders of the House and Senate in his own party. They can’t explain this away as [a] 15-dimensional Trump chess game. It’s a dishonest person behaving according to his long-established pattern."

He hasn't betrayed anything. He made a tiny tactical mistake in agreeing to a 3 months budget when GOP leadership wanted 18 to take the issue off the table till the election. He still appointed Gorsuch and a hundred other horrible judges all choose by the Federalist Society. He's still embracing and empowering actual Nazis in the Republican party. He's still trying to repeal ObamaCare and every other part of the Obama legacy. He's still trying to roll back all regulation governing the conduct of large corporations. His proposed budgets are still a Republican wet dream of essentially defunding all of the federal government. He's still trying to end organized labor as a thing. He's still trying to oppress Democratic votes to maintain Republican power in perpetuity. He's still giving free license to law enforcement to completely ignore civil rights. What Republican priorities has he sold out or refused to do? What more does Rick Wilson want?

He's governed exactly as a hardliner Republican, only slightly stupider. It's not even clear he even realized what he agreed to with the Democrats, because he's too stupid to really understand either the debt limit or the budget process. That's what makes these "oh look at the new independent Trump" pieces so infuriating, he's not done anything independent whatsoever.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:42 AM on September 10, 2017 [41 favorites]


We're best off if he's in a corner, licking himself or chewing on off his foot.

FTFY
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:59 AM on September 10, 2017 [5 favorites]


Axios, 'Why Trump hopes the new Trump sticks':

A Trump adviser says that after a tumultuous seven months in office, it had finally dawned on the president: "People really f@&@ing hate me."

There isn't any new Trump, there won't be any new Trump, a new Trump is not possible, and even if it was, it's not going to stick. Because, no matter what he does, people are still going to really fucking hate him.
posted by box at 8:13 AM on September 10, 2017 [19 favorites]


A Trump adviser says that after a tumultuous seven months in office, it had finally dawned on the president: "People really f@&@ing hate me."

THERE's the pivot we've all been looking for. The one that induces him to resign.
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 8:15 AM on September 10, 2017 [5 favorites]


"...it had finally dawned on the president: "People really f@&@ing hate me."

I have never seen evidence he's capable of such an epiphany.
posted by klarck at 8:18 AM on September 10, 2017 [36 favorites]


My impression of Trump is that he's motivated by hate, and has been throughout his life. There's nothing that makes him keep doing exactly what he's doing like the possibility that, by being bullheaded enough, he'll prove the haters wrong.
posted by clawsoon at 8:21 AM on September 10, 2017 [3 favorites]


This year's Darwin Awards is going to have stiff competition.

‘Liberal dung’: Fox viewers apoplectic after Shep Smith preempts two hours of Fox & Friends for Irma coverage
posted by Room 641-A at 8:31 AM on September 10, 2017 [9 favorites]


Seriously, I'm now reading excerpts from articles about Trump somehow transcending traditional partisanship?

I mean???

Where the fuck have these people been for the past twelve months?

Writing an article like that ought to get you minus a thousand journalism points, and having to perform some kind of atoning sacrifice or community service or something.
posted by darkstar at 8:34 AM on September 10, 2017 [25 favorites]


From that same Axios article, 'A senior administration official said of Trump's deal with Chuck and Nancy: "He just wanted to do something popular.'

Even so, a three month debt limit deal vs. an 18 month debt limit deal isn't going to make him popular. What he doesn't seem to understand is that people don't "really f@&@ing hate" him because of relatively small policy differences. People really fucking hate him because he's spent the last 70 years being a complete shitheel, treating everyone and everything like his own personal punching bag, and actively warring against women, POC, LGBTQ people, people with disabilities, everyone involved in business with him, everyone not involved in business with him, everyone in New York, everyone Not in New York, and the very concepts of human decency and empathy.

Dear Donald: It's too late. Ya done fucked up. No one has ever really liked you, no one does now, and no one ever will, and it's your fault.
posted by mrgoat at 8:34 AM on September 10, 2017 [42 favorites]


I would think with Trump such an epiphany would lead not to attempts to be a better person so that people didn't fucking hate him, but rather that he will find some reason outside himself for their fucking hating him (like the fact that the haters are women, PoC, or fellow travelers)
posted by angrycat at 8:36 AM on September 10, 2017 [10 favorites]


Writing an article like that ought to get you minus a thousand journalism points, and having to perform some kind of atoning sacrifice or community service or something.

"we'd put you on the society beat but i don't know if you could be trusted not to steal the tupperware at the parties"
posted by pyramid termite at 9:26 AM on September 10, 2017 [8 favorites]


Independent thinker!

@brianklaas
Trump just announced his 6th wave of US Attorney nominations. He has now nominated 42 of them. 41 of the 42 are men. https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2017/09/08/president-donald-j-trump-announces-sixth-wave-united-states-attorney

---

And of the 9 people named in the press release, all are white.
posted by chris24 at 9:29 AM on September 10, 2017 [21 favorites]


41 of the 42 are men.

50 percent of law school graduates are women. I'm sure there's a really good reason backed up by biological and evolutionary realities explaining why US attorneys need to be men.
posted by Etrigan at 9:33 AM on September 10, 2017 [68 favorites]


I really fucking hate this guy.
posted by Room 641-A at 9:52 AM on September 10, 2017 [42 favorites]


John McCain: 'I'm facing a challenge'
quonsar: I have concerns.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 10:13 AM on September 10, 2017 [10 favorites]


Josh Marshall at TPM:
Not Only No Deal-Making, There's Not Even a Deal!

I noted yesterday what I think should be obvious: that there is no ‘bipartisan path’. Beyond that, it’s quite something to see how rapidly a number of mainstream media voices have moved from Trump as far-right ideologue putting racist revanchism at the center of statecraft to Trump as post-ideological, pragmatic dealmaker. Serious, what are you people thinking?

But there’s a small, more specific problem with all this talk which may be obvious but still merits saying out loud. There haven’t even been any deals! The ‘deal’ people are talking about is a minor procedural accommodation, an agreement not to go through a round of legislative hostage taking tied mainly to the need to increase the debt-limit – something that should be abolished altogether. It is important to note how minuscule this accommodation really is. Beyond that, it is important to note how much the deal itself is only over a kind of legislative misbehavior which as recently as a decade ago would have been all but unthinkable: holding the full faith and credit hostage to the right of the GOP House caucus.
posted by darkstar at 12:25 PM on September 10, 2017 [31 favorites]


from quonsar's link: Asked how he wanted to be remembered, McCain responded: "He served his country, and not always right -- made a lot of mistakes, made a lot of errors -- but served his country, and I hope we could add, honorably."

I hope we can add that too, Senator. There's still time to make a difference.
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 12:31 PM on September 10, 2017 [19 favorites]


Really depends on if he turns around in two weeks and switches his vote to pass Graham-Cassidy ACA repeal. Perfectly fitting if McCain goes out pulling the ultimate McCain.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:41 PM on September 10, 2017 [4 favorites]


McCain's statement basically covers every jackass who gets a flag delivered to their memorial service, which these days is everybody who has ever qualified as foot traffic in the calculation of where to open a recruiting office.
posted by rhizome at 12:44 PM on September 10, 2017 [2 favorites]


Scariest editorial in a major newspaper: Katy Tur says she's reminded of Trump's pre-election campaign.
The Trump Fever Never Breaks
posted by Joe in Australia at 3:32 PM on September 10, 2017 [6 favorites]


I will say, though, that if these latest events have put another nail in the coffin of Paul Ryan's completely unearned reputation as the GOP's wunderkind wonk, then so much the better.
posted by darkstar at 3:50 PM on September 10, 2017 [3 favorites]


From Tur's editorial:
When I was out on the road following Mr. Trump, I sneaked in a bit of “Game of Thrones” on my laptop between rallies. What I learned, to paraphrase the show, is that what is dead may never die — and, in Mr. Trump’s case, may only rise stronger.
Trump has never paid the iron price for anything in his life. He even weasels out of the gold price for most shit.
posted by Justinian at 3:55 PM on September 10, 2017 [15 favorites]


the Times had 600 straight days where they had a story that mentioned Hillary's emails.

Not that I doubt it, but a cite would be keen.
posted by petebest at 3:58 PM on September 10, 2017 [7 favorites]


The Trump Fever Never Breaks
posted by Joe in Australia at 3:32 PM on 9/10
[+]


Ms Tur never addresses the why of Trump's invincibility among his base. It has become clear to me that it stems from pure racism, and we have a national problem in that 30% of us are frank racists.
posted by Mental Wimp at 3:59 PM on September 10, 2017 [28 favorites]


The 600 days figure comes from Peter Daou's interview this week. As far as I can tell he's citing his own non-public review of Lexis information, but also the Harvard and Gallup studies of primary coverage, and the 600 days figure is pretty damn believeable and in line with other critical reviews of media performance like 538's.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:21 PM on September 10, 2017 [14 favorites]


I dunno, the 7-digit verrit.com Authentication Code for that claim checks out, so it's got to be true!
posted by tonycpsu at 4:51 PM on September 10, 2017 [15 favorites]


So, since the Equifax thread is obsessed with social security payouts, here's my theory on the Equifax hack: as a worse case scenario, the data is held by the Russian government.

As for how it would be used, I think the most damaging effect would be going into 2018, 60+ million Democrats get removed from voting polls. The simplest way to do that, would be for all of their voting addresses be moved to different states. In any case, suddenly half the Democratic voters can't vote at their poling stations. Naturally there would be screaming chaos after that, but the Republican Congress would refuse to investigate, since they'd be too busy gearing up for the Congressional Convention and the 2020 elections- now an easy win.

So, this IS a worst case scenario. But then again, I thought Trump winning the election was a worst-case scenario...
posted by happyroach at 4:56 PM on September 10, 2017 [8 favorites]


Worster-case?
posted by petebest at 5:11 PM on September 10, 2017


It's actually spelled "Worcestershire Cheese".
posted by Joe in Australia at 5:29 PM on September 10, 2017 [7 favorites]


I believe it's pronounced wooster-case
posted by DoctorFedora at 5:59 PM on September 10, 2017 [4 favorites]


Axios reports that Jeff Sessions, you know, the Attorney General that lied to Congress, wants to make the entire NSC staff take polygraph tests to find out who is leaking.

I really don't think Jeff Sessions, of all people, wants to check up on whether everyone in this administration is being honest.
posted by zachlipton at 6:16 PM on September 10, 2017 [14 favorites]


Trump: Hurricanes are helping the Coast Guard improve its 'brand' (Jacqueline Thomson, The Hill)
Trump told a reporter that the country has “great people” responding to the massive storms and that “a group that really deserves tremendous credit is the United States Coast Guard," according to a White House pool report.

“What they've done — I mean, they've gone right into that, and you never know. When you go in there, you don't know if you're going to come out. They are really — if you talk about branding, no brand has improved more than the United States Coast Guard,” Trump said.
Trump is the wurst.
posted by Room 641-A at 6:19 PM on September 10, 2017 [14 favorites]


It's also troubling because it suggests that Jeff Sessions believes that polygraph tests actually accurately demonstrate whether someone is lying
posted by DoctorFedora at 6:20 PM on September 10, 2017 [44 favorites]


Well, of course he does. Sessions is not a scientist, does not care about science, and would rather believe that they're useful.
posted by Archelaus at 6:22 PM on September 10, 2017 [5 favorites]


As for how it would be used, I think the most damaging effect would be going into 2018, 60+ million Democrats get removed from voting polls. The simplest way to do that, would be for all of their voting addresses be moved to different states. In any case, suddenly half the Democratic voters can't vote at their poling stations. Naturally there would be screaming chaos after that, but the Republican Congress would refuse to investigate, since they'd be too busy gearing up for the Congressional Convention and the 2020 elections- now an easy win.

This strikes me as an unlikely strategy. Each state handles its own voter registration, so there's no mechanism through which they could "move" someone's voting address. They could register everyone in a different state, but that would not "de-register" someone from their actual state, nor prevent them from voting there. You can be registered in multiple places and still vote - anyone who has moved as an adult is probably registered in multiple states. They could "de-register" a bunch of people, but that needs to be done in writing, which is a harder task. And that could be defeated by just registering people again.

I'd lose more sleep over current legislative efforts to disenfranchise voters than this hypothetical one.
posted by Emily's Fist at 6:23 PM on September 10, 2017 [7 favorites]


The 600 days figure comes from Peter Daou's interview this week. As far as I can tell he's citing his own non-public review of Lexis information, but also the Harvard and Gallup studies of primary coverage, and the 600 days figure is pretty damn believeable and in line with other critical reviews of media performance like 538's.
---
I don't think he was necessarily talking about any single newspaper/the Times there


Sorry, my bad. I conflated 600 days of coverage with 600 days of Times coverage. Though I'd love to find that number.

Anyway, 24 days after defending literal fucking murderous Nazis, the Times has not only moved on, but is writing favorable articles. Meanwhile, 20 months after the email story broke – something Powell, Rice and the Bush administration all had done similar or worse – her emails were still a front page story.
posted by chris24 at 6:39 PM on September 10, 2017 [31 favorites]


In whino Verrittas.
posted by kirkaracha at 6:40 PM on September 10, 2017 [4 favorites]


50 years from now I'll be in my dotage at some old folks home and I'll start laughing for no reason but there will be a reason and that reason will have a 7 digit authentication code
posted by dis_integration at 6:56 PM on September 10, 2017 [8 favorites]


Never forget that the NYT was the main driver of the Whitewater "scandal" in the first year or two.. I think they just decided, at some point, that the Clintons were hayseeds who didn't know their place.
posted by thelonius at 6:59 PM on September 10, 2017 [22 favorites]


And Trump started out as THE highest-profile New York Real Estate guy, which made him very good for selling real estate ads in the paper (buying a lot himself). They probably did more to cover up Trump-related real estate scandals than to 'expose' Whitewater. There are many ways that "The Grey Lady" did NOT deserve to be considered The Shining Light of the Liberal Media. But with the Wall Street Journal, the New York Post and the Daily News all realizing the easiest way to promote themselves was as "NOT The New York Times", it was as much defined by its enemies as... well, Hillary Clinton.
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:09 PM on September 10, 2017 [2 favorites]


Trump: “We will be discussing our plan for dramatic tax cuts and tax reform. And I think now with what’s happened with the hurricane, I’m going to ask for a speed-up.”

If your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.
posted by JackFlash at 7:12 PM on September 10, 2017 [1 favorite]


If your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.

Or if you're dumber than a sack of hammers.
posted by Etrigan at 7:16 PM on September 10, 2017 [8 favorites]


And I think now with what’s happened with the hurricane, I’m going to ask for a speed-up.

That is a remarkable non sequiter! Because A hurricane hit Florida, no need to deliberate whatever's in the tax "reform" bill: just pass it!

I don't see the connection, to put it mildly.
posted by thelonius at 7:18 PM on September 10, 2017 [7 favorites]


I don't see the connection, to put it mildly.

Here, just take a sip of this Kool-Aid and you will be enlightened.
posted by JackFlash at 7:20 PM on September 10, 2017 [8 favorites]


The people constantly railing about fake news are sure fast to share it.

White House shares, deletes inaccurate 'Hurricane Irma' video
White House social media director Dan Scavino Jr. shared and then deleted an inaccurate video he claimed was of Hurricane Irma on Sunday, as the storm continues to carry whipping winds and surging storms across the state of Florida.

“Sharing Hurricane Irma on social media with President Trump and Vice President Pence hourly. Here is Miami International Airport. STAY SAFE!!” he tweeted.

Scavino later deleted the tweet from his account after Miami International Airport commented that the video was not of Hurricane Irma hitting Miami International Airport.
posted by chris24 at 7:20 PM on September 10, 2017 [17 favorites]


If your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.

If your only tool is a hurricane, every problem looks like convicted criminal Joe Arapio.
posted by Joey Michaels at 7:39 PM on September 10, 2017 [9 favorites]


> I will say, though, that if these latest events have put another nail in the coffin of Paul Ryan's completely unearned reputation as the GOP's wunderkind wonk, then so much the better.
Every time I see Ryan's name with the word "wonk", I think someone mistyped the word "w-nk".
posted by runcifex at 7:42 PM on September 10, 2017 [8 favorites]


VIRGINIA HOUSE ELECTIONS - HD 11 to 15

intro
1-5
6-10

===

11th District
Currently Dem seat
R cand: none
D cand: Sam Rasoul (incumbent)

District is bascially Roanoke city, 59.4% white. Incumbent first elected in 2014 special. No R candidate in 2013, D won 70-30 in 2014 special, no R candidate in 2015. Clinton won district 61-34.

===

12th District
Currently GOP seat
R cand: Joseph Yost (incumbent)
D cand: Chris Hurst

Rural western district, includes Blacksburg gerrymander, 87.2% white. Incumbent first elected in 2011. R won 52-47 in 2013, R won 58-42 in 2015. Clinton won district 48-45. Flippable Potential district.

===

13th District
Currently GOP seat
R cand: Bob Marshall (incumbent)
D cand: Danica Roem

DC exurban district, gerrymandering Manassas, 60.4% white. Incumbent first elected in 1991 special; R won 51-49 in 2013 and 56-44 in 2015. Clinton won district 55-40. Ballotpedia Race To Watch and Flippable Priority district.

===

14th District
Currently GOP seat
R cand: Danny Marshall (incumbent)
D cand: none

Central district on NC border, contains Danville, 60.3% white. Incumbent first elected in 2001. R won 59-38 in 2013, no D candidate in 2015. Trump won district 52-45.

===

15th District
Currently GOP seat
R cand: Todd Gilbert (incumbent)
D cand: none

Rural district on WV border, 75.5% white. Incumbent first elected in 2005. No D candidate in 2013 or 2015. Trump won district 71-25.

===

Next time: 16-20.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:05 PM on September 10, 2017 [23 favorites]


It's also troubling because it suggests that Jeff Sessions believes that polygraph tests actually accurately demonstrate whether someone is lying

tbh we're lucky he isn't dunking them in ponds to see if they float.
posted by jason_steakums at 8:12 PM on September 10, 2017 [35 favorites]


Axios reports that Jeff Sessions, you know, the Attorney General that lied to Congress, wants to make the entire NSC staff take polygraph tests to find out who is leaking.

Jesus christ. Does the Attorney frigging General seriously not know that polygraph tests are completely worthless? He'd get more conclusive results asking a Magic 8-Ball.
posted by Sys Rq at 8:17 PM on September 10, 2017 [7 favorites]


Every time I see ... the word "wonk",

My understanding of the etymology of this word is that it comes from the British denigrating their scientists in the time of war (WWII) with the phonetic sound of the word (to 'know') in reverse.

It makes me barf a little every time I see that damned word used.
posted by porpoise at 8:18 PM on September 10, 2017 [4 favorites]


Jesus christ. Does the Attorney frigging General seriously not know that polygraph tests are completely worthless?

They're not worthless for his purposes, he cares about "finding" leakers exactly like he cares about imprisoning thousands of minorities on trumped up charges. Polygraphs are very useful for generating "evidence".
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:29 PM on September 10, 2017 [17 favorites]


And Trump started out as THE highest-profile New York Real Estate guy, which made him very good for selling real estate ads in the paper (buying a lot himself). They probably did more to cover up Trump-related real estate scandals than to 'expose' Whitewater.

You've made this claim -- that the NYT covered up Trump scandals because he bought ad space in the paper -- at least a dozen times now, in a dozen threads. Maybe the next time you bring it up, you can offer some evidence?
posted by neroli at 8:31 PM on September 10, 2017 [6 favorites]


You've made this claim -- that the NYT covered up Trump scandals because he bought ad space in the paper -- at least a dozen times now, in a dozen threads. Maybe the next time you bring it up, you can offer some evidence?

Did you miss the entirety of American history from 2001 until 2009? The Paper of Record is not our friend or any sort of fellow traveler, neither back then, nor here, now that a no-kidding Ethno-Fascist is in actual power on Pennsylvania Ave. Both-sidesism means that they are Nazi apologists. Sorry, but it's true.
posted by Slap*Happy at 8:48 PM on September 10, 2017 [4 favorites]


The Paper of Record is not our friend

I'm talking about specific evidence for a specific claim.
posted by neroli at 8:56 PM on September 10, 2017 [12 favorites]


Mod note: A few deleted. Here is your wonk etymology and drop the derail!
posted by Eyebrows McGee (staff) at 9:00 PM on September 10, 2017 [7 favorites]


Via LGM, the newspaper that employs Peter Baker, he of "Trump is the first independent since the Civil War" fame, notes Donald Trump's not-so-independent use of the federal government to "promote conservative social priorities":

Where Trump’s Hands-Off Approach to Governing Does Not Apply

Banning trans servicemembers, eliminating funding for groups that provide reproductive services, trying to prosecute sanctuary cities... But on the other hand, Trump agreed with Schumer and Pelosi on something, so, MAVERICK!
posted by tonycpsu at 10:39 PM on September 10, 2017 [11 favorites]


Aw dammit...I was just re-reading through this thread, reliving the optimism, the excitement from last summer.

We coulda had something really wonderful.
posted by darkstar at 11:56 PM on September 10, 2017 [7 favorites]


we're lucky he isn't dunking them in ponds to see if they float

Well he wouldn't would he. Water damage is specifically excluded from the warranties on polygraphs.
posted by flabdablet at 12:49 AM on September 11, 2017 [6 favorites]


They're not worthless for his purposes, he cares about "finding" leakers exactly like he cares about imprisoning thousands of minorities on trumped up charges. Polygraphs are very useful for generating "evidence".

It is particularly unproductive in this context though, as there are very few IC people that do not know how to play with a polygraph test (in short, introduce stress in the calibration and control questions via pain, muscle tensing in the abdomen or intentionally induced fear). That covers almost all of the NSC.
posted by jaduncan at 1:24 AM on September 11, 2017 [3 favorites]


White House Chief of Staff John Kelly blisters Ann Coulter for joking about Hurricane Irma victim (Tom Boggioni, Raw Story)
The former general called Coulter out after she all-cap tweeted: “HURRICANE UPDATE FROM MIAMI: LIGHT RAIN; RESIDENTS AT RISK OF DYING FROM BOREDOM.”
It's all fake news, right?

I get what Kelly was thinking, but in this case I believe it's always better not to feed the Troll Queen. She's totally irrelevant.
posted by Room 641-A at 1:43 AM on September 11, 2017 [2 favorites]


> to play with a polygraph test (in short, introduce stress in the calibration and control questions via pain, muscle tensing in the abdomen or intentionally induced fear)
[Note to self: useful skill in this Trumpian timeline.]
posted by runcifex at 1:55 AM on September 11, 2017 [1 favorite]


Er, why does Raw Story think @WHJohnKelly, an unverified account with 979 followers, none of whom appear to be people in the administration or journalists, and a bunch of pretty obvious joke tweets at the start of his history, is White House Chief of Staff John Kelly?

I guess what I'm saying is that I'd avoid Raw Story.
posted by zachlipton at 1:58 AM on September 11, 2017 [14 favorites]


I'm repeating stuff from a few threads ago but it's relevant to the lie detector discussion.

Jeff Sessions wants to keep forensics in the dark ages.

Talking about medical marijuana...
“I believe it would be unwise for Congress to restrict the discretion of the Department to fund particular prosecutions, particularly in the midst of a historic drug epidemic and potentially long-term uptick in violent crime. The Department must be in a position to use all laws available to combat the transnational drug organizations and dangerous drug traffickers who threaten American lives,” There's an opioid epidemic. If there's a correlation between medical and recreational marijuana legalization it's likely that legal marijuana decreases opioid fatalities.There's no evidence of a long term uptick in violent crime.

Jeff Sessions doesn't care about whether his policies or procedures actually work. His preferred victims are poor people or people of color but apparently you won't be immune from his batshittery if you're a member of the NSC staff.
posted by rdr at 2:02 AM on September 11, 2017 [7 favorites]




They are really — if you talk about branding, no brand has improved more than the United States Coast Guard,” Trump said.

Welp, today's the day when I found out that whatever gland of mine it is responsible for producing WHITE-HOT RAGE at this sort of thing has been utterly depleted.

BRB. Going to the local health food store for rage hormone supplements.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 2:18 AM on September 11, 2017 [25 favorites]


zachlipton, we can agree to disagree on Raw Story's general veracity, but the larger point I was talking about was how Limbaugh and Coulter took perpetuating the fake news myth to the next logical conclusion, which is that even the weather report s fake.

Of course, I don't think for a second either of them really believes the news is fake. Unfortunately, the only people who would believe them might be also be actively harmed by thrm.
posted by Room 641-A at 5:58 AM on September 11, 2017 [2 favorites]


Why are there suddenly a bunch of 9/11 documentaries on TV...? Ah, right. Hope T doesn't say anything too stupid today.
posted by Melismata at 6:02 AM on September 11, 2017 [2 favorites]


I have already performed my ceremonial playing of tribute.avi this morning.

*Cue saxophone*

if you don't get the reference you probably don't want to
posted by delfin at 6:27 AM on September 11, 2017



Why are there suddenly a bunch of 9/11 documentaries on TV


In, I think, 2011, one of the networks replayed their coverage from from 10 years before all day, which I found to be more pornographic than historical....
posted by thelonius at 6:40 AM on September 11, 2017 [5 favorites]


Trump: Hurricane Rescues Have Improved Coast Guard’s ‘Brand’
He said the “power of those hurricanes” is what concerned him most.

“Probably, I saw somebody say 57 years now. Now, who knows what that means? But it’s about the biggest ever recorded at land, and unfortunately, we got it,” he said, adding he hoped there weren’t “too many people” in the path of Hurricane Irma.

“I hope there aren’t too many people in the path. You don’t want to be in that path. That’s a path you don’t want to be in. We tried to warn everybody. For the most part, they’ve left, but that’s a bad path to be in,” he said.
posted by kirkaracha at 6:47 AM on September 11, 2017 [1 favorite]


I know that referring to Barack Obama as "eloquent" or "well-spoken" dredges up all sorts of awful racist history. I know this. You don't have to tell me.

But goddammit, I miss having an eloquent, well-spoken president.
posted by Faint of Butt at 6:53 AM on September 11, 2017 [43 favorites]


“Probably, I saw somebody say 57 years now. Now, who knows what that means? But it’s about the biggest ever recorded at land, and unfortunately, we got it,” he said, adding he hoped there weren’t “too many people” in the path of Hurricane Irma.

It's like playing mad-libs with a small child who doesn't know what verbs and nouns and subjects are
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:53 AM on September 11, 2017 [10 favorites]


Melismata, I was just thinking the same thing.

thelonius, that was so upsetting to wake up to.
posted by Room 641-A at 6:54 AM on September 11, 2017 [2 favorites]


Mallory Shelbourne, The Hill: Fox News host asks if 9/11 memorials will come down next

“Do you worry 100 years from now someone’s going to try to take that memorial down like they’re trying to remake our memorials today?” Kilmeade asked Zinke, who is attending a ceremony in Shanksville on Monday.

“Well I’m one that believes that you know we should learn from history," Zinke replied. "And I think our monuments are part of our country’s history. We can learn from it." [...] “Since we don’t put up statues of Jesus, everyone’s going to fall morally short. And I think reflecting on our history, both good and bad, is a powerful statement and part of our DNA.”


1. Kilmeade is a fascist moron who, since Trump primarily relies on Fox n' Friends for his daily briefing, is one of the most powerful people on the planet.

2. Zinke's such a scumbag that Literal Journalist-Beating Thug Gianforte is almost an improvement as his replacement in the House. The implication that Confederate monuments are "part of our DNA" is one hell of a biological racism dogwhistle. It's not enough for Zinke to throw himself wholly into the task of selling off public lands and strip-mining national monuments: he just has to get a hit of that sweet, sweet Nazi shit too.
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:54 AM on September 11, 2017 [35 favorites]


“Well I’m one that believes that you know we should learn from history," Zinke replied. "And I think our monuments are part of our country’s history. We can learn from it. “Since we don’t put up statues of Jesus, everyone’s going to fall morally short. And I think reflecting on our history, both good and bad, is a powerful statement and part of our DNA.”

That's swell. As I've said before, Benedict Arnold is part of our history, too, and he did do some genuinely heroic things before he, you know, became a literal traitor. Which is why he has a memorial at the Saratoga battlefield monument -- a statue of an officer's boot, representing the serious wound he received.

We don't as a rule put up statues to other traitors; but then, doing so for other traitors generally wasn't meant to send a clear message to African-Americans that they were second class citizens. This slippery slope argument fools and knaves use in support of monuments to treason in defense of slavery is stupider than most.
posted by Gelatin at 7:02 AM on September 11, 2017 [24 favorites]


Seriously, unless the 9/11 memorials are statues of the hijackers then it's not remotely comparable.

Also, can I just bold this jack-assery:
"Since we don’t put up statues of Jesus, everyone’s going to fall morally short."
He said that without a hint of irony or satire. Has this man never been to a church? Statues of Jesus are everywhere, and that's not even the stupidest part of that statement.
posted by papercrane at 7:06 AM on September 11, 2017 [61 favorites]


"Since we don’t put up statues of Jesus, everyone’s going to fall morally short."

You don't like it, move to Rio de Janeiro
posted by thelonius at 7:10 AM on September 11, 2017 [46 favorites]


They are really — if you talk about branding, no brand has improved more than the United States Coast Guard,” Trump said.

Welp, today's the day when I found out that whatever gland of mine it is responsible for producing WHITE-HOT RAGE at this sort of thing has been utterly depleted.


The only people in the world who thought the Coast Guard had a bad "brand" are either criminals or just blisteringly stupid. This guy is both, so we shouldn't be surprised. But yeah, I kinda wish I still had my Coast Guard boots so I could throw them at him.

“What they've done — I mean, they've gone right into that, and you never know. When you go in there, you don't know if you're going to come out. They are really — if you talk about branding, no brand has improved more than the United States Coast Guard,” Trump said.

Bit of Coast Guard trivia: The unofficial motto of the Coast Guard is, "You have to go out. You don't have to come back:"

"A ship was stranded off Cape Hatteras on the Diamond Shoals and one of the life saving crew reported the fact that this ship had run ashore on the dangerous shoals. The old skipper gave the command to man the lifeboat and one of the men shouted out that we might make it out to the wreck but we would never make it back. The old skipper looked around and said, 'The Blue Book says we've got to go out and it doesn't say a damn thing about having to come back.'"

It's clear from 45's quote that someone tried to relay that story to him, or even just the motto, and he couldn't keep it straight in his head.

As usual, fuck every single thing about this guy.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 7:12 AM on September 11, 2017 [39 favorites]


"Since we don’t put up statues of Jesus, everyone’s going to fall morally short."

You don't like it, move to Rio de Janeiro


Since the moral influence of Jesus statues is directly linked to the total volume of statue, it's a known fact that Rio's Christ the Redeemer projects a 1000 km Morality Field that converts all character alignments to Lawful Good and adds +2 to Wisdom and Charisma.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:14 AM on September 11, 2017 [72 favorites]


"It's like the Coast Guard always says, when you've gotta go, you've gotta go"
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:21 AM on September 11, 2017 [25 favorites]


"Since we don’t put up statues of Jesus, everyone’s going to fall morally short."

You don't like it, move to Rio de Janeiro


Better: the submerged one on the Florida coast.
posted by phearlez at 7:23 AM on September 11, 2017 [4 favorites]


"...if you talk about branding, no brand has improved more than the United States Coast Guard,” Trump said.

Yet another time that his solipsism is glaringly obvious -- he had never devoted a majority of his five brain cells to whether the United States Coast Guard (which has been actively conducting its primary mission since Day Fucking One of its founding in the Eighteenth Century (which you can't say about any of the other armed forces, who spend most of their time training to conduct their primary missions)) has a good "brand", therefore it hasn't really had a brand until that third brain cell snapped into line.
posted by Etrigan at 7:26 AM on September 11, 2017 [26 favorites]


Fox News host asks if 9/11 memorials will come down next

Hmmm. Let's see. Are they monuments to traitors?

No?

Well, probably not then.
posted by vibrotronica at 7:42 AM on September 11, 2017 [37 favorites]


he had never devoted a majority of his five brain cells to whether the United States Coast Guard (which has been actively conducting its primary mission since Day Fucking One of its founding in the Eighteenth Century*

* by an immigrant, orphan, son of a whore and a scotsman no less
posted by entropicamericana at 7:42 AM on September 11, 2017 [45 favorites]


^ You don't like it, move to Rio de Janeiro
Why do you hate Rio de Janeiro?
Cariocas already have enough problems with the Bolsonazi
posted by adamvasco at 7:44 AM on September 11, 2017 [2 favorites]


Wherein Miss Teen Texas, in a sixteen second response to a question about Charlottesville, provides better moral clarity and leadership than our nation's President.
posted by darkstar at 7:51 AM on September 11, 2017 [28 favorites]


I hope there aren’t too many people in the path. You don’t want to be in that path. That’s a path you don’t want to be in. We tried to warn everybody. For the most part, they’ve left, but that’s a bad path to be in.

See, this kind of speech pattern is what makes people think Trump might be suffering from some sort of serious neurological problem. Every single word of that ramble is clinging desperately to the words immediately preceding it and the intended emotional impact of the speech. It's like the only things in his head are "path" and "danger" but he still has to fill up a bunch of time with words.

And, yeah, I miss the fact that Obama could speak extemporaneously and not sound like a babbling moron. Even Bush was better than this --- and Bush also knew he was no damn good at speaking off-the-cuff and usually stuck to prepared notes.
posted by jackbishop at 7:54 AM on September 11, 2017 [25 favorites]


Manu Raju at CNN: Republican Sen. Bob Corker weighs whether to retire in 2018
Tennessee Sen. Bob Corker, the influential chairman of the Senate foreign relations committee who was once considered for a spot in President Donald Trump's Cabinet, is weighing whether to call it quits next year.

Corker told CNN last week that he has not made a decision about his future, and appeared to confirm Trump's tweet that he asked the President for political advice about whether to run for reelection.

"As far as what am I going to do in the future, I'm still contemplating the future," Corker said in an interview. "It's a tremendous privilege to do what I do, and to weigh in on the big issues. ... But I have not decided what I'm going to do in the future."
Corker is basically terrible on most policy votes but does seem a bit more level-headed than the likes of Cruz, Cotton, etc. Would be an extremely difficult pick-up for a Democratic candidate, though, so unfortunately, I reckon that if Corker goes, someone much worse will get elected. Ugh.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 8:07 AM on September 11, 2017 [1 favorite]


Every single word of that ramble is clinging desperately to the words immediately preceding it and the intended emotional impact of the speech. It's like the only things in his head are "path" and "danger" but he still has to fill up a bunch of time with words.

The repetition was evident in today's 9/11 ceremony, as well:
The military will continue to fight "horrible, horrible enemies...enemies like we have never seen before."

The memorial "is an occasion that is extraordinary, and it will always be extraordinary."
It's a readily identifiable part of his limited oratory repertoire, the doubled vacuous amplifier: tremendous, tremendous...really, really...etc.

He and his followers used to rail at Obama for occasionally using the TelePrompTer. I actually wish Trump would stick to it, as it's the only time he doesn't sound like an eighth grader trying to pad a book report on a book he hasn't read, or a brazen demagogue trying to rouse a rabble.
posted by darkstar at 8:12 AM on September 11, 2017 [11 favorites]


Trump: Hurricane Rescues Have Improved Coast Guard’s ‘Brand’

This statement reveals a bit of ignorance on his part, as well as a sense that he doesn't think highly of the USGC, which may very well be something Trump picked up at the military academy he went to. The Coast Guard has always been treated by the other branches of the Armed Forces as a bit of a redheaded stepchild.

It's reminiscent of his comment about Frederick Douglass.
posted by zarq at 8:19 AM on September 11, 2017 [5 favorites]


Reince Priebus and WH Counsel Don McGahn have lawyered up.
posted by darkstar at 8:19 AM on September 11, 2017 [9 favorites]


Paul Waldman, The American Prospect: Why the Elite Media Want You to Think Trump Is an Independent
So you may be wondering why a bunch of smart and plugged-in journalists would be drawn to the idea that Trump isn't governing like a Republican. There are a few reasons, the most important of which is the media's insatiable need for novelty. It's called the "news," not the "olds" or the "sames" (a number of other languages use the same construction, with the word for "news" being the plural of "new"). An agreement on the debt ceiling is an opportunity to say that things have changed, which is what we in the media always want to say. All the other things that are unique and novel about Trump—we've certainly never had a president so petulant and ignorant before!—can lead one to conclude that everything he does is different from what another Republican would have done, so there's an impulse to say that he's different on policy as well.

And while it almost certainly isn't something they're consciously attempting to argue, I suspect that another reason reporters might want to assert that Trump is an independent is that it serves as a defense of the two-party system and the larger stability of our democracy. One way to look at Trump is that he's the logical product of a party that has set about in recent years to promote fear of immigrants, distrust of scientific authority, the specific interests of white people, the belief that all problems have easy solutions, and a contempt not just for the media but for the idea of objective truth itself. Trump is proof positive that if you say Both Sides Do It, you're completely wrong.

On the other hand, if Trump is an anomaly who stands outside the two parties and got elected essentially by accident, then the system is basically fine. Once he's gone and all this madness has come to its merciful end, we can return to the way things were without asking whether there's a profound rot within the GOP and within America itself that allowed this toxic buffoon to become his party's nominee and then the president.

That would be a nice thought. If only it were true.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:20 AM on September 11, 2017 [61 favorites]


Yet another time that his solipsism is glaringly obvious -- he had never devoted a majority of his five brain cells to whether the United States Coast Guard...has a good "brand"

I suspect something deeper is at play here by virtue of 45's myriad personality problems and general stupidity. He campaigned hard on stopping illegal immigration, which is among the Coast Guard's many missions, and then he tried to cut their budget. Dramatically.

He was stopped from cutting the Coast Guard's budget by Congress, so they go in the category of things that have frustrated or defeated him. (The budget was basically held to the same level, which is still a cut given inflation, but whatever.) He also spoke at their academy graduation, and while they cheered dutifully (as people in uniform have to for the president), it was basically one more embarrassing display on his part.

Additionally, the Coast Guard's top command didn't react favorably at all to the transgender ban tweet. The Commandant immediately reached out to the openly transgender people in the service to tell them he had their backs, and he instructed the service's legal resources to gear up for a fight. Given the Coast Guard's small size, it didn't make big headlines, but that's pretty significant.

And again, the Coast Guard clearly has no problems with its "brand" in the public eye. Even military skeptic types generally have a favorable view of the Coast Guard. A statement like this says 45 himself has had a dim view of the Coast Guard, probably because he's had so many problems with the service. If anything, that only makes me prouder of them.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 8:20 AM on September 11, 2017 [78 favorites]


scaryblackdeath, that's a much better take on the situation than mine! Nicely reasoned.
posted by zarq at 8:24 AM on September 11, 2017


Would be an extremely difficult pick-up for a Democratic candidate, though

Apart from pick-up opportunities, there's the fact that Trump and the party lose a lot of leverage over anyone who chooses not to run again. When and if impeachment is on the table, those retiring Republicans have nothing to lose politically by voting in favor.
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:27 AM on September 11, 2017 [5 favorites]


Corker specifically might be asking the president less for "advice" and more for a promise not to support his primary challengers...

Alex Isenstadt at Politico: Bannon plotting primaries against slate of GOP incumbents
Two other senators could come under attack. Behind the scenes, Bannon has proposed the possibility of targeting Tennessee Sen. Bob Corker, and those close to the former Trump chief strategist are talking about the prospect of a challenge to Mississippi Sen. Roger Wicker.

Corker had long been considered a Trump ally and had been in the mix to become secretary of state, but has since angered the president's supporters with recent comments in which he questioned Trump’s competence. Shortly after Bannon left the White House and returned to Breitbart last month, the site published a story promoting a potential Corker challenger, state Sen. Mark Green. The site has also hyped the possibility that state Sen. Chris McDaniel, a tea party favorite, will take on Wicker.
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:37 AM on September 11, 2017 [1 favorite]


Corker only beat out Harold Ford by 2pts in 2006, and the Democrats did not run a real candidate against him in 2012. They could not find a standard bearer (or didn't try), and a libertarian crank ended up winning a small plurality of the joke Democratic primary, which in Tennessee was good enough for the nomination. He was disavowed by the party and Corker won essentially unopposed. Tennessee would clearly be a difficult place to win, but maybe not impossible if there's an open seat and an anti-Trump wave.

Assuming the Democratic party bothers to run a candidate. Which is a huge assumption. Entirely plausible Corker retires and the Democratic structure does nothing, letting the Republicans choose his replacement without contest.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:42 AM on September 11, 2017 [8 favorites]


Independent: Milo Yiannopoulos says Miami home has been destroyed by hurricane: Controversial right-wing commentator had previously joked about damage storm has caused

Posting a picture of the roof having been torn off a building in the city’s West Brickell area, he commented: “MY HOUSE IS GONE”.

It's not Mar-a-Lago but I'll take it.
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:52 AM on September 11, 2017 [64 favorites]


"I never thought hurricanes would tear off MY roof," sobs man who voted for the Hurricanes Are Fake News Party.
posted by kirkaracha at 8:55 AM on September 11, 2017 [74 favorites]


Even hurricanes know you should punch Nazis.

Or at least the roof of a Nazi-enabler's house.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 8:57 AM on September 11, 2017 [7 favorites]


I hope he didn't have flood insurance, I heard it's socialism.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:59 AM on September 11, 2017 [9 favorites]


> Now, who knows what that means?

This latest bit of word salad reminds me of one of my favourite Metafilter comments of all time (spoiler: it involves a conversation with a three year-old who has a better grasp of the English language than the President of the United States).
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:59 AM on September 11, 2017 [10 favorites]


There is a D candidate for Corker's seat: James Mackler. I haven't spent a lot of time looking into him yet, but I follow him on Twitter, and he seems like he could make a solid run.
posted by timestep at 9:00 AM on September 11, 2017 [4 favorites]


WOO MY LOCAL DICKHEAD REP (Dave Trott) IS RETIRING.

Because the intent of the Founders was citizen-legislators who wouldn't stay in Congress forever, and totally not because our local Indivisible et al have turned "being a Congressman" from "a thing that impresses people" to "an unrelenting ass-kicking every time he pops his head out of his burrow".
posted by Etrigan at 9:07 AM on September 11, 2017 [28 favorites]


Does the Attorney frigging General seriously not know that polygraph tests are completely worthless?

Do you not know the Republican position on scientific evidence?
posted by srboisvert at 9:15 AM on September 11, 2017 [5 favorites]


Steve Bannon Predicts President Trump Will Be Reelected in a Landslide
Charlie Rose: So your takeaway on the Trump administration, and we sit here two days after Labor Day, your takeaway on the Trump administration so far is what?

Steve Bannon: Is that it’s hammering through what it’s trying to hammer through to deliver on the promises that President Trump made to the American people when he campaigned. And if he just continues to go down that path and punch out those promises he made, he’s going to win... we’re going to win in 18... we’ll pick of 6 or 7 senate seats. I think we’ll pick up a couple seats in the House, and we’re gonna win in a huge landslide in [20]20.
posted by kirkaracha at 9:18 AM on September 11, 2017


Steve Bannon seems like such an idiot to me. And yet he seems to have been so successful. Of course I could say the same of Trump. That bothers me as much as anything about all of this. It doesn't make sense to me that such idiots should be so successful. I like it much better when the world makes sense.
posted by OnceUponATime at 9:22 AM on September 11, 2017 [43 favorites]


McClatchy, Anita Kumar, Trump promised not to work with foreign entities. His company just did
A major construction company owned by the Chinese government was hired to work on the latest Trump golf club development in Dubai despite a pledge from Donald Trump that his family business would not engage in any transactions with foreign government entities while he serves as president.

Trump’s partner, DAMAC Properties, awarded a $32-million contract to the Middle East subsidiary of China State Construction Engineering Corporation to build a six-lane road as part of the residential piece of the Trump World Golf Club Dubai project called Akoya Oxygen, according to news releases released by both companies. It is scheduled to open next year.

The companies’ statements do not detail the exact timing of the contract except to note it was sometime in the first two months of 2017, just as Trump was inaugurated and questions were raised about a slew of potential conflicts of interest between his presidency and his vast real estate empire.
posted by zachlipton at 9:25 AM on September 11, 2017 [21 favorites]


Bannon is probably operating under the assumption that a lot of people who would vote against Trump and/or Republicans will not be allowed to vote, and once you take that into account it's hard to see how he/they will lose.
posted by The Card Cheat at 9:25 AM on September 11, 2017 [12 favorites]


maybe now that racism is skewing outcomes for white vs. white people, the myth of american meritocracy will become a softer target for reformers

in other words, pretty sure black and brown people have some Thoughts about idiots succeeding where more qualified and better candidates fail for Some Mysterious Reason What Could It Be

and yes it's profoundly disturbing
posted by prefpara at 9:26 AM on September 11, 2017 [10 favorites]


So far Trump hasn't done much to "deliver on the promises that President Trump made to the American people" but that doesn't seem to matter to his supporters.
posted by kirkaracha at 9:29 AM on September 11, 2017 [5 favorites]


Democratic Socialists of America are combating police oppression in Chattanooga, Tennessee, by changing people's brake lights for free.
posted by Faint of Butt at 9:35 AM on September 11, 2017 [106 favorites]


Every time I see that program mentioned I boggle a bit as it never once occurred to me that people were getting pulled over because their taillights were *actually* broken. Who knew?
posted by stet at 9:40 AM on September 11, 2017 [9 favorites]


So far Trump hasn't done much to "deliver on the promises that President Trump made to the American people" but that doesn't seem to matter to his supporters.

The first and biggest promise he made was to make teh libruls cry. They're pretty sure he's doing that just fine.
posted by Etrigan at 9:41 AM on September 11, 2017 [17 favorites]




For nearly a decade I was a research assistant on a project where we one-on-one tutored and did think-alouds with middle school students about a very fundamental but hard-to-talk-about-even-for-adults science concept. We recorded these interactions and it was my job to transcribe them. The results weapons-grade wordsalad. I have nothing but empathy for the people who have to transcribe (or--dear god!--translate) Trump's blatherings, because at a certain point it just becomes impossible. Transcription (an odious task) is made easier by the human brain being a pretty good predictive text generator. Remove the ability to predict or even parse the next word, and transcription becomes a horrific slog into the backmost reaches of the human psyche. It's brutal, but I can forgive a 10 year old trying to talk about philosophy of science. I have no such forgiveness for a grownass man talking about, like, basic declarative facts.
posted by soren_lorensen at 10:02 AM on September 11, 2017 [23 favorites]


Speaking of Milo (ugh): The Critic and the Clown: A Tale of Free Speech at Berkeley
We seem to have reached a new high, or low, in the academy’s free speech wars. Berkeley’s anthropology department has been compelled to reschedule a talk by Anna Tsing, a well known and highly regarded anthropologist at UC Santa Cruz, in order to make space—a safe space, as it turns out—for Milo Yiannopoulos to speak there on the same day.

Aside from getting us—rightly—infuriated, I hope this incident reminds us that the marketplace of ideas, like all markets, is a highly organized and structured market, privileging some ideas over others. Ideas don’t simply enter and exit a power-less space; speech doesn’t just happen. In any institution, there are gatekeepers who give a pass to some speech but not others, and who insist that the price of entry for some speakers is higher than others. Speech is a material practice: it requires resources (paying a speaker, setting up sound systems, reserving rooms, paying for security, and so on), and resources need to be distributed. In a system of scarcity, which is what an institution is (even in the academy, time and space are finite, as this Berkeley episode reveals), distribution will involve considerations of equity: some interests will be heeded, some will not; some voices will get heard, some will not. While we tend to think of speech as simply additive—I speak, you speak, we all speak—it can be a zero-sum game.

This incident simply makes concrete, albeit in a fairly dramatic way, what all of us see all the time in the academy. Just to give you the easiest sense of that: Most speakers in these fancy, and well paying, circuits of exchange never come to Brooklyn College. We simply don’t have the money to pay them. Harvard, Chicago, Stanford, and Berkeley do. Free speech ain’t free.

But this incident has an additional element of farce: The Berkeley administration has essentially decided that “the free exchange of ideas” requires a critic to make space for a clown.
posted by zombieflanders at 10:02 AM on September 11, 2017 [24 favorites]


@davidgura: At The Pentagon, President Trump is now talking through a scheduled moment of silence.

From the Twitter comments:


"No one's ever had a silence like this. I promise you."

"Many people don't know it but the Pentagon is actually shaped like a pentagon. Can you believe it? It's great, so great."

"Most people don't know a pentagon has 5 sides. 5 sides! That's a lot of sides. Many sides. Believe me."
posted by darkstar at 10:03 AM on September 11, 2017 [18 favorites]


Kid Rock Rants About “Senate Run” and Confederate Flag Criticism: “I LOVE BLACK PEOPLE!!” (Brian Joespehs, Spin)

Kid Rock: I love black people!
Me: I love Kid Rock!

[Both fake]
posted by Room 641-A at 10:13 AM on September 11, 2017 [5 favorites]


@davidgura: At The Pentagon, President Trump is now talking through a scheduled moment of silence.

[fake] tag. Please!
posted by Gelatin at 10:13 AM on September 11, 2017 [1 favorite]


I can't remember who asked on an earlier link I posted where a Russian announcer snarked about electing Trump and the crowd cheered if Russians believed they interfered in our election. Based on this, I'm gonna go with yes.

@JuliaDavisNews
#Russia's state TV mocks American intelligence services:
MP Vyacheslav Nikonov says U.S. spies slept while Russia elected a U.S. President.

VIDEO
posted by chris24 at 10:13 AM on September 11, 2017 [6 favorites]


NYC Folks -- A reminder that TOMORROW, 9/12, is our primary election for local offices including mayor, comptroller, public advocate, borough presidents, city councilmembers, BROOKLYN DISTRICT ATTORNEY, etc.

I don't have the time available today to write up a good summary of all of the important/competitive races, but there's at least a basic list of all of the candidates and races here from Gotham Gazette.

The Brooklyn [Kings County] DA race is REALLY REALLY important, so if you live in Brooklyn and you're eligible to vote in the primary (in NY this is based on your party registration for last year, if you were registered in the state at the time) PLEASE VOTE TOMORROW. More info on the DA candidates and the race here and here.

You can look up your registration status here and polling location and sample ballot here. If your registration record says your party is Democratic then you should be able to vote in the primary (if you've changed your party since the 2016 general election, I believe it shows your old party status until 11/14/17).
posted by melissasaurus at 10:16 AM on September 11, 2017 [16 favorites]


See, this kind of speech pattern is what makes people think Trump might be suffering from some sort of serious neurological problem. Every single word of that ramble is clinging desperately to the words immediately preceding it and the intended emotional impact of the speech. It's like the only things in his head are "path" and "danger" but he still has to fill up a bunch of time with words.

I find myself worrying about the seeming reality that this is a highly effective form of communication for some percentage of the population. It some sort of weird tribal phatic communication for the dumb and disinterested.
posted by srboisvert at 10:17 AM on September 11, 2017 [15 favorites]


Kid Rock: I love black people!

Note that he called out two people by name in that rant: Al Sharpton and Sam Riddle. I'll give you one guess as to Sam Riddle's race.

No, he did not call out Tom Brady or Russell Wilson -- that was a callout of Colin Kaepernick.
posted by Etrigan at 10:22 AM on September 11, 2017


David Gura @davidgura: "I was on the air as this happened -- as the president blew past the 9:58 a.m. ET moment of silence, and the 10:03 a.m. ET one too. C'mon."

Since Trump siphoned off 9/11 relief funds intended for small businesses and then, typically, lied about donating to a 9/11 victim fund, it would have been a small blessing if he'd grabbed at the chance not to have to say anything. (Meanwhile, it feels more subdued than usual downtown—hell, the quiet JWs are the only evangelicals around, and I haven't seen any of the usual 9/11 Truthers). Yet somehow not even the solemnity of the anniversary is sacrosanct for Trump.
posted by Doktor Zed at 10:23 AM on September 11, 2017 [22 favorites]


Though I no longer live in Michigan, I did from birth to age 24 (Macomb County, same as Kid Rock in fact). It's depressing how likely I think it is that Kid Rock could pick up a Senate seat.
posted by dhens at 10:28 AM on September 11, 2017 [3 favorites]


WTF So Trump didn't talk thru a moment of silence? Make clear your jokes, people.
posted by agregoli at 10:30 AM on September 11, 2017 [3 favorites]


I find myself worrying about the seeming reality that this is a highly effective form of communication for some percentage of the population. It some sort of weird tribal phatic communication for the dumb and disinterested.

You're not alone in that concern.
posted by darkstar at 10:30 AM on September 11, 2017 [1 favorite]


GOP loses another key incumbent as third lawmaker in a week announces retirement (Brad Reed, Raw Story)
Rep. Dave Trott (R-MI) announced on Monday that he would not seek another term, marking the third GOP lawmaker in the past week to announce their retirement.

Last week, Reps. Dave Reichert (R-WA) and Charlie Dent (R-PA) both announced that they would not seek additional terms in office, thus opening up fresh pickup opportunities for the Democratic Party in 2018.

Cook Political Report analyst Dave Wasserman says that Trott’s retirement shift’s his rating of the race in his district from “likely Republican” to “toss up.”
posted by Room 641-A at 10:34 AM on September 11, 2017 [23 favorites]


I find myself worrying about the seeming reality that this is a highly effective form of communication for some percentage of the population. It some sort of weird tribal phatic communication for the dumb and disinterested.
A nam-shub for those with an unregulated id.
posted by mce at 10:40 AM on September 11, 2017 [6 favorites]


WTF So Trump didn't talk thru a moment of silence? Make clear your jokes, people.

To clarify:

He did talk through the widely/nationally observed moments of silence that coincide with the times that each of the Twin Towers fell.

He did not talk during a moment of silence being observed at the event at which he was speaking. They waited until he was done speaking to observe the moment of silence, and he did not evidently speak during that time.
posted by darkstar at 10:40 AM on September 11, 2017 [12 favorites]


Cook Political Report analyst Dave Wasserman says that Trott’s retirement shift’s his rating of the race in his district from “likely Republican” to “toss up.”

I wish I could be more confident about that. The Fightin' 11th has been represented by one Democrat since it was constituted in 1991. That Democrat was a white union guy who was running against a certifiable loony in a special election for a six-week term.

Local Republicans hate Dave Trott, who was utterly unprepared for the work involved in being in Congress and showed virtually no desire to get better at it. He is (said to be) arrogant and detached, even from GOP channels. He wasn't going to get primaried, because he's pretty Tea Party/Trumpist and falls in line with his voting (because he doesn't care about anything aside from gutting the CFPB), but virtually any Republican who's willing to shake a few hands and kiss a few babies in the heavily gerrymandered 11th will be able to hold all of the reflexive GOP voters and win back a lot of the Republicans who would have otherwise been desperately looking for an excuse not to vote for a Democrat.
posted by Etrigan at 10:48 AM on September 11, 2017 [5 favorites]


Local Republicans hate Dave Trott, who was utterly unprepared for the work involved in being in Congress and showed virtually no desire to get better at it.

Of course, but then why did the Republicans hate him?
posted by Gelatin at 10:54 AM on September 11, 2017 [11 favorites]


Since Trump siphoned off 9/11 relief funds intended for small businesses and then, typically, lied about donating to a 9/11 victim fund...

He also bragged on 9/11 that he now owned the tallest building in Lower Manhattan. Of course, it wasn't true.
posted by chris24 at 11:02 AM on September 11, 2017 [10 favorites]


> He did talk through the widely/nationally observed moments of silence that coincide with the times that each of the Twin Towers fell.

He did not talk during a moment of silence being observed at the event at which he was speaking. They waited until he was done speaking to observe the moment of silence, and he did not evidently speak during that time.


On most matters of "Trump Administration: Eleven-dimensional chess masters or simpletons who are just making shit up as they go along", I tend to lean towards the latter. However, there is very little doubt in my mind that the administration was aware of the tradition of doing moments of silence, but Trump wanted to make everyone else wait for him to finish. If his speech were set to end prior to the moment of silence, I have no doubt he would have padded it just to elevate himself above the moment and show that he's the boss. If they wanted him to observe the moments of silence at the traditional times, they would have had to tell him that Obama didn't.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:05 AM on September 11, 2017 [8 favorites]


So he didn't talk during the moment of silence during the ceremony he was at, but he's being criticized for talking during moments of silence during ceremonies he wasn't at? I'm sorry, I hate him as much as anyone, but this is just bitch-eating-crackers.
posted by kirkaracha at 11:10 AM on September 11, 2017 [6 favorites]


He also bragged on 9/11 that he now owned the tallest building in Lower Manhattan. Of course, it wasn't true.

From the end of that story:
Editor’s note: Donald Trump regularly incites political violence and is a serial liar, rampant xenophobe, racist, misogynist and birther who has repeatedly pledged to ban all Muslims — 1.6 billion members of an entire religion — from entering the U.S.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 11:17 AM on September 11, 2017 [10 favorites]


The cracker eating in itself is not the problem. Dropping a crumb here and there would not be a big deal either. It's she sheer number of crumbs all over everything, all the time.
posted by Too-Ticky at 11:47 AM on September 11, 2017 [19 favorites]


I don't think this particular instance of Trump ignoring the timing of a moment of silence to be particularly damning, but it does fit a pattern of him, to put it bluntly, not really giving a shit; or, perhaps, not really giving a shit about anything other than himself. This is the kind of thing he does all the time: ignores the small, simple things that show respect for other people. Individually, excusable; collectively, problematic.

There's a pretty big reason those moments of silence are those particular moments -- things happened at those particular moments, just like things happened on this particular day. Any remotely competent staff builds a schedule around those moments, and any remotely competent politician understands that and has someone in his field of vision with a watch to tell him when to wrap it up, and pays attention to that person. Unsurprisingly, Trump decided that the important thing about this particular day and these particular moments was that people were listening to him talk.

For someone who so disdains the work that government does, he certainly seems to have taken "Close enough for government work" to heart.
posted by Etrigan at 11:49 AM on September 11, 2017 [39 favorites]


They waited until he was done speaking to observe the moment of silence

As you do, y'know, when the goddamn POTUS wants to toss word salad while you're trying to do the thing with the thing with the towers and the terrorists. Whaddaddick.
posted by Rykey at 11:53 AM on September 11, 2017 [2 favorites]


Any remotely competent staff...

Ay, there's the rub. Well, one of them anyway. Trump has shown he will ignore his staff's directions on a whim.
posted by Mental Wimp at 12:09 PM on September 11, 2017 [2 favorites]


So is it still too early to talk about things related to 2020? (Yes, because 2018!) But California is looking to move its primary up to March, so it will be quite early in the cycle, and that's going to be a big deal in terms of how the race will be structured, at least if other states don't shift their primaries earlier too, as happened in 2008.

In other news, @katelinthicum (LA Times reporter in Mexico City): After a devastating earthquake and hurricane (and after Trump failed to send condolences), Mexico today rescinded its offer of aid to the US. Reuters has a story that it took us nine days to bother to get back to Mexico on their offer to help us, and Trump hasn't bothered to say anything about the earthquake.
posted by zachlipton at 12:10 PM on September 11, 2017 [46 favorites]


*waiting happily for the next Vicente Fox video*
posted by Melismata at 12:13 PM on September 11, 2017 [13 favorites]


I readily confess to now suffering a form of TDS (Trump Derangement Syndrome). But it's been come by honestly, having been traumatized or outraged to greater or lesser degree by SO MANY of his deranged actions/statements in the past couple of years.

So yeah, by now, if I saw him just eating crackers, I'd probably have to avert my eyes in disgust, crumbs or no. Because it's not about the crackers anymore.
posted by darkstar at 12:27 PM on September 11, 2017 [13 favorites]


With Trump, it's always about the crackers.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:31 PM on September 11, 2017 [19 favorites]


He's forever the bitch eating crackers, fourteen at a time, over your mother's open casket, while doing the YMCA dance and screaming FAKE NEWS! FAKE NEWS!
posted by Rykey at 12:34 PM on September 11, 2017 [10 favorites]


> The first and biggest promise he made was to make teh libruls cry. They're pretty sure he's doing that just fine.

They may be pretty sure, but I'm not, and part of it has to do with this problematic phrasing. After hearing this "making the liberals cry" argument quite a bit now, this response isn't to any one in particular, but damn it.

First, if anyone is crying, they aren't uniformly "boo-hoo-hoo, I'm powerless" tears of hopelessness, as opposed to "why do my fellow citizens compel me to drive my fist through their skull" tears of anti-Nazi rage.

It just feeds into the stereotyped narrative that liberals are "weak" and conservatives are "strong". Not to mention the stereotype that showing emotions is weak compared to all other possible reactions. Counter to all of that, some people in these threads have made pretty good points about liberal forms of protest with respect to antifa and the like. Sorry for sweeping generalizations and for not giving the original author(s) credit for this argument, but:
  • Liberals are not afraid to fight. What they don't like doing is hurting people, which is why you see reluctance, hesitance, sought-after alternatives to violence, and other things that can be misconstrued as "cowardice".
  • Conservatives [specifically bullies, in this instance] like to hurt people. What they are afraid of is getting into a fight—a real fight with trading blows, and consequences they can't just laugh off and pretend weren't significant if they lose.

tl;dr: Those "liberal tears" end up unifying large portions of the populace who would have remained disconnected, bringing people to the fight who would have otherwise stayed home, and driving the establishment's discourse farther to the left than any internal encouragement would.
posted by Johann Georg Faust at 12:40 PM on September 11, 2017 [38 favorites]


Well, you know, Americans love going on about being rugged individualists and pulling themselves up by their bootstraps, so they certainly don't need any help from Mexico or any other country.
posted by The Card Cheat at 12:41 PM on September 11, 2017 [1 favorite]


Post faster, everyone. Tehhund's favoriting again...

...From inside the thread*.

-------------
*Yes, nipping at our heels.
posted by notyou at 12:44 PM on September 11, 2017 [44 favorites]


tl;dr: Those "liberal tears" end up unifying large portions of the populace who would have remained disconnected, bringing people to the fight who would have otherwise stayed home, and driving the establishment's discourse farther to the left than any internal encouragement would.

That's true, but another way of putting Trump's appeal to his Crazification Factor base is he "pisses off liberals." The depravity of modern movement conservatism is that they define themselves as being against whatever liberals are for. Since liberals are generally for fairness, democracy, anti-fascist, opposed to Russian meddling in our affairs, etc. etc., it follows that conservatives, when you get right down to it, have to oppose all of those or they are no longer in the tribe.

The fact that liberals, as decent Americans, are outraged over Trump's behavior is not a warning sign to these people, but a ringing endorsement. And one that tars every single Republican that rides his coattails, notwithstanding their expressed "concerns."
posted by Gelatin at 12:58 PM on September 11, 2017 [23 favorites]


Liberals are not afraid to fight ... Conservatives [specifically bullies, in this instance] like to hurt people.

Random fun anecdote:

This past 4th of July I was volunteering at a fairly rural PNW community block party, where one of the events was a tug of war competition.

While it was all in good fun there were a couple of teams that were taking it pretty seriously and enjoying getting all pumped up and macho about it and doing a lot of chest bumping during the pregame. Of the notable teams there were the entirely barrel-shaped country boys in their Realtree camo and hunting or fishing branded meshbacks and even a couple of Trump hats, there was a bunch of partying dudes wearing a lot of stars and stripes and red white and blue clothing (ironically-unironically? shrug.) and even a couple of flags as capes and then there was a last minute rag-tag team of local nerds, hippies, weirdos, artists, barflies, musicians and LGBTQ folks, including one awesome gal so butch I definitely wouldn't want to wrassle her, and I'm not small or opposed to some wrasslin'.

The rag tag team won and swept the field. The camo guys were good sports but some of them were visibly a little upset about it.
posted by loquacious at 1:11 PM on September 11, 2017 [48 favorites]


Donald J. Trump: America's first chabuduo president.
posted by sotonohito at 1:11 PM on September 11, 2017 [6 favorites]


Also, not sure if this has been posted before here on MeFi, but it's a bloody excellent article from a pacifist minister explaining how they've come to be ardent defenders of the antifa.
posted by sotonohito at 1:14 PM on September 11, 2017 [18 favorites]


So is it still too early to talk about things related to 2020?

We're already in the 2020 campaign, so no.
posted by kirkaracha at 1:26 PM on September 11, 2017


So is it still too early to talk about things related to 2020?

Medicare for All gained three more co-sponsors today -- Kirstin Gillibrand, Cory Booker, and Jeff Merkley. The co-sponsor list looks like a list of front runners for the Democratic nomination.
posted by gladly at 1:30 PM on September 11, 2017 [51 favorites]


Also Brian Schatz (D-HI) and Chris Murphy (D-CT) have their own Medicare and Medicaid buy-in plans.
posted by asteria at 1:40 PM on September 11, 2017 [6 favorites]


Also, not sure if this has been posted before here on MeFi, but it's a bloody excellent article from a pacifist minister explaining how they've come to be ardent defenders of the antifa.

To quote from the alarmingly still entirely relevant Rome, Open City:
SS INTERROGATOR: Then I'll tell you who he is. He's subversive, he's fought with the Reds in Spain. His life is dedicated to fighting society, religion. He is an atheist -- your enemy.
PRIEST: I am a Catholic priest. I believe that those who fight for justice and truth walk in the path of God and the paths of God are infinite.
posted by Sys Rq at 1:41 PM on September 11, 2017 [30 favorites]


The rag tag team won and swept the field.

Naturally.
posted by ragtag at 1:51 PM on September 11, 2017 [15 favorites]


Trump on Twitter shows us how a narcissist commemorates 9/11. By giving us a video of himself commemorating 9/11.
posted by scalefree at 2:00 PM on September 11, 2017 [5 favorites]


you know, about 9/11. The only footage of it I will willingly watch is the Yackety Sax version. I'm fucked in the head when it comes to dealing with serious shit; mostly I have to crack inappropriate jokes.

Except that Trump opening his leathery maw and letting the usual tide of shit pour out during the moments of silence, well, dear readers, I want to beat the shit out of him.
posted by angrycat at 2:08 PM on September 11, 2017 [6 favorites]


The cracker eating in itself is not the problem. Dropping a crumb here and there would not be a big deal either. It's she sheer number of crumbs all over everything, all the time.

Also the crumbs are made of fiberglass and are on fire and are secretly racist and
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 2:57 PM on September 11, 2017 [20 favorites]


and they're that weird off brand from the dollar store that kind of look the same but taste really weird and stale and might also be Canadian.
posted by Room 641-A at 3:07 PM on September 11, 2017 [11 favorites]


Saltimes. Or possibly Rutz.
posted by hanov3r at 3:22 PM on September 11, 2017 [20 favorites]


There's a pretty big reason those moments of silence are those particular moments

Essentially it's about showing respect, and indeed, the participation in shared humanity.

Whilst the obvious evidence that he is unable to do either is no surprise and it's not a big deal in terms of the repercussions (compared to quite literally everything else he is or does) it is a big deal in that it's just yet another mile high LBJ dick nozzle (hey it's a helicopter!) example of UNFIT FOR PURPOSE, REPLACE IMMEDIATELY!

It's also the sea change thing. This is not normal.

It's through the looking glass that those that most identify as "patriots" are utterly in the thrall of a cult that will destroy what they believe they stand for. All because their core virtue is shitposting.

This is how the world ends, not with a bang, but with an OH FFS.
posted by Buntix at 3:25 PM on September 11, 2017 [30 favorites]




Welp, we have a bomb threat: Bomb threat prompts closure of Santa Monica Pier (ABC7)

The latest is that they did find a suspicious car, but no bomb, apparently. Haven't gotten the all-clear text from SMPD yet. They evacuated 1500 people.
posted by Room 641-A at 5:35 PM on September 11, 2017


WSJ, Peter Nicholas, Rebecca Ballhaus and Erica Orden, Some Trump Lawyers Wanted Kushner Out
Some of President Donald Trump’s lawyers earlier this summer concluded that Jared Kushner should step down as senior White House adviser because of possible legal complications related to a probe of Russia’s involvement in the 2016 presidential election and aired concerns about him to the president, people familiar with the matter said.

Among their concerns was that Mr. Kushner was the adviser closest to the president who had the most dealings with Russian officials and businesspeople during the campaign and transition, some of which are currently being examined by federal investigators and congressional oversight panels. Mr. Kushner, Mr. Trump’s son-in-law and confidant, has said he had four such meetings or interactions.

Another issue was Mr. Kushner’s initial omission of any contacts with foreign officials from the form required to obtain a security clearance. He later updated the form several times to include what he has said were more than 100 contacts with foreign officials.

The president’s lawyers were not united in the view that Mr. Kushner should step down.
This apparently got far enough that they drafted a statement announcing his departure. It's unclear to me the extent to which this story could be ax-grinding ex-staffers in the anti-Jared wing (you know, like people whose names rhyme with Reeve Schmannon) stirring things up, but it also makes me wonder if there are more shoes to drop for Jared. I hope so.
posted by zachlipton at 5:35 PM on September 11, 2017 [4 favorites]


Oh, goodie, just in time for Rachel! This will be fun 🍿
posted by Room 641-A at 5:44 PM on September 11, 2017


My read is that his lawyers viewed Jared as so much of a liability that they would propose getting rid of him even though Trump would obviously hate that. That's not a conversation anybody would want to have unless they felt really strongly that it was necessary. The interesting question is whether they viewed him as a political liability or a legal one.

And in any rational non-2017 universe, the June 2016 Trump Tower meeting, Jared's other Russia meetings, and his repeated omissions from his security clearance paperwork ought to be enough to make him both. The question is whether the lawyers knew about even more when they made this recommendation.
posted by zachlipton at 5:50 PM on September 11, 2017 [7 favorites]


And Kushner still has his security clearance.
posted by Room 641-A at 6:08 PM on September 11, 2017 [9 favorites]


in order to make space—a safe space, as it turns out—for Milo Yiannopoulos to speak there

He's still alive? Haven't heard that name in internet years.
posted by ctmf at 6:23 PM on September 11, 2017 [3 favorites]


Alive but homeless. The hurricane he called fake news destroyed his house.
posted by guiseroom at 6:34 PM on September 11, 2017 [8 favorites]


Loved that "Photographer reveals ..." article at AV Club T.D.Strange linked to above. Gave me the first good laugh of my antipodean day. Said photographer proves beyond a 5 o'clock shadow of a doubt that 60 Minutes producers adjusted the colour to make Bannon look bad. Ann Coulter agrees: "That's why conservatives seem to look so much better on Fox News."
posted by valetta at 6:45 PM on September 11, 2017 [3 favorites]


Alive but homeless. The hurricane he called fake news destroyed his house.

That may be just him being a troll again...no one has confirmed that's his house.

In fact, given how much of an asshole/provocateur he tries to be, I'd bet it's not actually his home. Then he can turn around and say "aha, look how many liberals gloated when they thought I lost my home, so much for liberal compassion" etc.
posted by darkstar at 6:46 PM on September 11, 2017 [19 favorites]


> shamefully concealed Steve Bannon's natural beauty

I recall that during the transition of broadcast TV to HD, there was a brouhaha about having to upgrade newscasting (and sitcom) sets and how all the broadcasters will need a whole lot more makeup.

My tiniest itsiest bitsiest bit of respect to Bannon is that he's apparently refusing the pancake makeup that virtually everyone uses on camera. Or maybe that's the best they can do?

Is it just my imagination, or do they usually slather it on even more thickly on Fox?
posted by porpoise at 6:47 PM on September 11, 2017 [1 favorite]


Just saw this on the reddits, what the actual fuck. Steve Mnuchin now has oversight of the magnitsky act.
posted by _Synesthesia_ at 6:53 PM on September 11, 2017 [28 favorites]


you can't put pancake makeup on an inflamed conjunctival sac
posted by murphy slaw at 6:54 PM on September 11, 2017 [4 favorites]


From the Bannon article:
Duke didn’t even touch on CBS’s other most obvious deception, when it somehow made the side of Bannon’s face pulsate like he was clamping his jaws with cocaine force on a rat trying to escape his body, when it was really just the beating heart of America.
The video clip is great. 😬 <-- coke jaw
posted by Room 641-A at 6:54 PM on September 11, 2017 [10 favorites]


Just saw this on the reddits, what the actual fuck. Steve Mnuchin now has oversight of the magnitsky act.
posted by _Synesthesia_ at 6:53 PM on September 11 [5 favorites +] [!]


He's paid his debt now that Mnuchin and Tillerson can quietly deep six the sanctions.
posted by Mental Wimp at 7:10 PM on September 11, 2017 [1 favorite]


I didn't read that as coke jaw (I'm a naïf); I read it as pissed-off dad jaw*; it is time to clear out.

--------
*I've used it to good effect** in English 100. Will not do so anymore.

-----------
**Yes, I checked.
posted by notyou at 7:12 PM on September 11, 2017 [1 favorite]


So much FUD around the Magnitsky Act (and so much else). Who had the authority before this latest memo switched it? A quick google is turning up junk.
posted by notyou at 7:20 PM on September 11, 2017 [1 favorite]


Facebook’s role in Trump’s win is clear. No matter what Mark Zuckerberg says.
"We don’t know everything about Facebook’s role in the campaign. What we do know — or certainly ought to know by now — is to not take Facebook at its word. It always plays down its influence, trying for a benign image of connecting us all in a warm bath of baby pictures, tropical vacations and games of Candy Crush."
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:21 PM on September 11, 2017 [25 favorites]


So much FUD around the Magnitsky Act (and so much else). Who had the authority before this latest memo switched it? A quick google is turning up junk.

Well, in the absence of anyone designated, it'd be the president. I presume that someone probably still had it when Obama was in office (or maybe Obama did) and Trump is just now getting around to delegating.

Given everything surrounding this act, it's quite odd, but the good (?) news is that they have to alert Congress before removing any of the existing sanctions and give reasons for doing so. That at least gives Congress time to cry foul.

I suppose this could be a first step toward lifting some sanctions, with the thinnest of possible separation between Trump and the actual decision to do so? Either they're going to do something idiotic or they're going to use the act to impose sanctions on some other folks...in an idiotic way.
posted by Room 101 at 7:30 PM on September 11, 2017 [2 favorites]


I read it as pissed-off dad jaw*;

I just made that up, carry on!
posted by Room 641-A at 7:33 PM on September 11, 2017 [1 favorite]


Steve Mnuchin now has oversight of the magnitsky act.

So the memorandum says "I delegate to the Secretary of the Treasury the authority to administer financial sanctions under section 1263 of the Global Magnitsky Human Rights Accountability Act (Public Law 114-328) (the "Act"). In exercising the authority delegated by this memorandum, the Secretary of the Treasury will coordinate with the Secretary of State."

I don't know what this means, the Magnitsky Act is Public Law 112-208 (pdf) and there is no section 1263; but Public Law 114-328 is actually the National Defense Authorization Act FY 2017 (big pdf). Section 1263 allows the president to apply and terminate sanctions.

To terminate sanctions there are some conditions to meet (that there is credible evidence the person is not a human rights abuser, that person has been prosecuted appropriately, the person has credibly demonstrated a significant change in behavior, or the nebulous national security exemption) and any removals must be reported "to the appropriate congressional committees not later than 15 days before the termination of the sanctions." This removal language is the same as the Magnitsky act.
posted by peeedro at 7:36 PM on September 11, 2017 [10 favorites]


Federal building photo update from the Post: After nine months, federal offices are still waiting to hang Trump’s picture :
Federal agencies ordered photographs of their new commander in chief months ago. But they say they are still waiting for the Government Publishing Office, the printer of official portraits, to send them for distribution by the General Services Administration, which owns or leases 9,600 federal buildings across the country.

The Government Publishing Office says it has yet to receive the images from the White House. And the White House says the president and vice president have not yet decided when they will sit for the type of high-quality official photographs usually churned out by the modern GPO, continuing a portrait tradition that began after the Civil War.
Some agencies have printed off their own low quality versions from the website of the unofficial "scowling — and some say unflattering — photo" of Trump mean mugging (Trump reportedly loved that photo and thinks it made him look "like Churchil"). But it's just plain weird to me that someone so obsessed with himself didn't make an official photo his highest priority.
posted by zachlipton at 7:44 PM on September 11, 2017 [22 favorites]


Maybe he's afraid an OFFICIAL photo will steal his soul.
posted by njohnson23 at 7:57 PM on September 11, 2017 [1 favorite]


He doesn't think or have a soul, though.
posted by fluffy battle kitten at 8:00 PM on September 11, 2017 [3 favorites]


Your move, Kathy Griffin!
posted by Sys Rq at 8:07 PM on September 11, 2017 [3 favorites]


This is an interesting Daily Beast story by Ben Collins, Kevin Poulsen, and Spencer Ackerman: Exclusive: Russia Used Facebook Events to Organize Anti-Immigrant Rallies on U.S. Soil
Russian operatives hiding behind false identities used Facebook’s event management tool to remotely organize and promote political protests in the U.S., including an August 2016 anti-immigrant, anti-Muslim rally in Idaho, The Daily Beast has learned.

A Facebook spokesperson confirmed to the Daily Beast that the social-media giant “shut down several promoted events as part of the takedown we described last week.” The company declined to elaborate, except to confirm that the events were promoted with paid ads. (This is the first time the social media giant has publicly acknowledged the existence of such events.)

The Facebook events—one of which echoed Islamophobic conspiracy theories pushed by pro-Trump media outlets—are the first indication that the Kremlin’s attempts to shape America’s political discourse moved beyond fake news and led unwitting Americans into specific real-life action.

“This is the next step,” Clint Watts, a former FBI agent and expert on Russia’s influence campaign, told The Daily Beast. “The objective of influence is to create behavior change. The simplest behavior is to have someone disseminate propaganda that Russia created and seeded. The second part of behavior influence is when you can get people to physically do something.”
Now, the actual event they identify does not appear to have been a success at all, but this still indicates that the propaganda efforts went well beyond just placing ads and involved actually promoting events that matched the messages coming from Trump and alt-right media.
posted by zachlipton at 8:16 PM on September 11, 2017 [59 favorites]


This is an interesting Daily Beast story by Ben Collins, Kevin Poulsen, and Spencer Ackerman: Exclusive: Russia Used Facebook Events to Organize Anti-Immigrant Rallies on U.S. Soil

I was going to say we need FB to reveal each and every one of these posts so folks will know by whom they were trolled. But then I quickly remembered that those capable of being trolled would never allow themselves to believe they had been trolled. Oh, well.
posted by Mental Wimp at 8:20 PM on September 11, 2017 [4 favorites]


Does the Attorney frigging General seriously not know that polygraph tests are completely worthless?

The Jefferson Beauregard Sessions Signature Model Polygraph
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 8:24 PM on September 11, 2017 [1 favorite]


Is anyone else getting super excited that this could eventually kill Facebook?
posted by fluttering hellfire at 8:32 PM on September 11, 2017 [21 favorites]


Zucc can only defend us from the Russians if he has a strong Facebook, though!
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 8:38 PM on September 11, 2017 [3 favorites]


ELECTIONS NEWS

(you guys scooped me on most of these today, sorry!)

2018 House:
-- Dave Trott (MI-11) announced he would not run again in 2018, bringing the count to four swing district Republicans who are bowing out. As Etrigan noted above, Trott is not well beloved within the local GOP, so the district may not be as swingy as all that, but Cook Political is moving it to Toss-up. We also note with interest MI-11 is the only Michigan district where Trump underperformed Romney.

-- While we're talking Michigan, MI-06's Fred Upton is apparently mulling a Senate run, which would open up a swingish district (51-43 Trump).

-- National Journal on these retirements being good stuff for the Dems.
** 2018 Senate:
-- Bob Corker mulling not running again. TN would obviously be challenging, but perhaps not impossible for a Dem pickup.

-- Mitt Romney is positioning himself if Orrin Hatch decides not to run again (he still hasn't decided). Given this is the Utah GOP, we could do worse, I guess (although the most moderate candidate did win the GOP nom in the UT-03 special). There was also a poll that had Hatch losing to prospective Dem candidate Jenny Wilson, but it turns out they didn't use party labels, which makes it pretty unreliable.

-- Steve Bannon looking to primary insufficiently fervent GOP senators, particularly Flake, Wicker, Heller, and Corker. Certainly would help the Dems in AZ and NV, at minimum.
** Odds & ends:
-- Three special elections tomorrow (MS-HD-102, OK-HD-46, NH-H-Belknap-9), plus some interesting primaries (Brooklyn DA, etc.) I'll report them as they come in.

-- As mentioned earlier, California is looking to move its primary up to March. This would be a serious bonus for any potential CA candidates, like say, Kamala Harris or Eric Garcetti.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:06 PM on September 11, 2017 [21 favorites]


This is an interesting Daily Beast story by Ben Collins, Kevin Poulsen, and Spencer Ackerman: Exclusive: Russia Used Facebook Events to Organize Anti-Immigrant Rallies on U.S. Soil

I hadn't considered that tactic before, but it's so cheap and easy it really doesn't surprise me. It does open up a certain paranoid line of thinking around other cheap, easy and remote tactics that could be used, because I'm thinking, if I could think up stuff like that, people who are paid to weaponize troll tactics could think of a lot worse. I mean you don't want to be all "omg Putin is around every corner" and you have to keep perspective, but also, why wouldn't they deploy those tactics pretty much all the time? Low cost and low risk for a potentially huge effect.
posted by jason_steakums at 9:11 PM on September 11, 2017 [8 favorites]


VIRGINIA HOUSE ELECTIONS - HD 16 to 20

intro
1-5
6-10
11-15

===

16th District
Currently GOP seat
R cand: Les Adams (incumbent)
D cand: none

South central district, contains Martinsville, 68.8% white. Incumbent first elected in 2013. R won 63-37 in 2013, no D candidate in 2015. Trump won district 60-37.

===

17th District
Currently GOP seat
R cand: Chris Head (incumbent)
D cand: Djuna Osborne

Roanoke suburbs, 88.4% white. Incumbent first elected in 2011. R won 62-38 in 2013, no D candidate in 2015. Trump won district 60-35.

===

18th District
Currently GOP seat
R cand: Michael Webert (incumbent)
D cand: Tristan Shields

DC exurban district, 86.9% white. Incumbent first elected in 2011 special; R won 63-37 in 2013, no D candidate in 2015. Trump won district 60-35. There is also a Green candidate.

===

19th District
Currently GOP seat
R cand: Terry Austin (incumbent)
D cand: none

Mostly rural central district, 91.9% white. Incumbent first elected in 2013. R won 70-30 in 2013, no D candidate in 2015. Trump won district 70-26.

===

20th District
Currently GOP seat
R cand: Richard Bell (incumbent)
D cand: Michele Edwards

Mostly rural district, contains Staunton, 87.3% white. Incumbent first elected in 2009. No D candidate in 2013 or 2015. Trump won district 58-37. There is also a Libertarian candidate, who did credibly in 2015.

===

Next time: 21-25.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:34 PM on September 11, 2017 [18 favorites]


So, um, the @tedcruz account is liking porn [NSFW, also not safe for those who do not want the mental image of Ted Cruz's face appearing on the same page as a couple having sex, which, er, is, I hope, literally everyone. Sorry. Alternate SFW link using a different still from the video.] in the middle of the night now. It's been up for an astonishingly long time. And Ted-Cruz-liked-porn twitter is nearly as great as covfefe twitter.

If you find "Ted Cruz['s staffer maybe?] liked porn on Twitter in the middle of the night" a tawdry and irrelevant story (you are not wrong, sorry), I remind you that Cruz and his staff were responsible for arguing in the Fifth Circuit that "there is no substantive-due-process right to stimulate one's genitals for non-medical purposes unrelated to procreation or outside of an interpersonal relationship" as he sought to maintain the state's ability to jail people for years for selling sex toys. (I am also sorry for posting that sentence.) His college roommate pointed out that "this would be a new belief of his."

(Again, I'm sorry.)
posted by zachlipton at 10:14 PM on September 11, 2017 [103 favorites]


I'd go compare the porn Cruz liked to the porn that Josh Marshall tweeted out but that's too disgusting. Ted Cruz I mean, not porn.
posted by Justinian at 10:28 PM on September 11, 2017 [5 favorites]


The fool! Cruz ever develops a reputation for hypocrisy and double-dealing then he's done for.
posted by sebastienbailard at 10:37 PM on September 11, 2017 [30 favorites]


was there soup involved
posted by murphy slaw at 10:42 PM on September 11, 2017 [9 favorites]


if I could think up stuff like that, people who are paid to weaponize troll tactics could think of a lot worse

Makes ya wonder about all those people on social media who are so eager to get everyone to refight the 2016 Democratic primaries. You have to wonder who they are listening to. It would be a nice little "in betweeen elections" hobby for an intelligence team, after all. .
posted by happyroach at 10:42 PM on September 11, 2017 [8 favorites]


Y'all keep 9/11 in your own way and let Ted Cruz keep it in his.
posted by Atom Eyes at 10:57 PM on September 11, 2017 [32 favorites]


Zachlipton, I adore you. Thank you for that brilliant end to a difficult day.

[Edit: I swear I didn't mean to make a happy ending joke.]
posted by greermahoney at 11:12 PM on September 11, 2017 [17 favorites]


That story about the official portraits - I recently went back across the border to renew my work visa. Every year I go into the CBP office at the border, and previously it had always been Obama's smiling face greeting you as you presented your paperwork. And I was dreading going in this year and having to make idle chit chat with a potentially hostile border agent while Trump scowled down at me. But instead of Obama's picture there was just nothing, and now i know why. I find that really strange - the portrait of the President gazing down on you at borders and whatnot is such a strong symbol of American power. Trump's narcissism would seem to demand he plaster his picture all over everything, despots everywhere love that shit. But it seems he's actively avoiding that - maybe he doesn't like the image he projects? Or deep down he knows how fraudulent such a display is? There's so much fascinating psychology with this asshole
posted by aiglet at 11:23 PM on September 11, 2017 [14 favorites]


Ted Cruz's comms person had to get up in the middle of the night to tweet this nonsense: "The offensive tweet posted on @tedcruz account earlier has been removed by staff and reported to Twitter"

For their part, @sexuallposts was kind of enough to tweet back "Thanks for watching ted!" and their Twitter bio now starts "Follow @TedCruz's Favorite Twitter Porn Account *18+ advised*"
posted by zachlipton at 11:34 PM on September 11, 2017 [58 favorites]


Best reply to that tweet: "A bit surprised that Ted Cruz's porn is porn."
posted by Hairy Lobster at 11:36 PM on September 11, 2017 [81 favorites]


let Ted Cruz keep it in his.

I can think of something else Ted should have kept "in his" (pants).

Ayyyy
posted by dhens at 11:58 PM on September 11, 2017 [2 favorites]


Meanwhile down in Texas our boy Ted sleeps the sleep of the just.
posted by Atom Eyes at 11:59 PM on September 11, 2017 [1 favorite]


The sleep of the just finished.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 12:23 AM on September 12, 2017 [37 favorites]




Meanwhile down in Texas our boy Ted sleeps the sleep of the just.

Yes, he's clearly been feeling a little cocky.
posted by Joe in Australia at 1:15 AM on September 12, 2017 [9 favorites]


Wonder which 'member' of his 'staff' will be 'fingered' for this?
posted by chris24 at 4:59 AM on September 12, 2017 [8 favorites]


Thy rod and staff, they [do not] comfort me.
posted by Melismata at 5:25 AM on September 12, 2017 [12 favorites]


*throws ted cruz to the ground, watches him turn into a snake*
posted by pyramid termite at 5:34 AM on September 12, 2017 [6 favorites]


*throws snake to the ground, watches him turn into ted cruz*
posted by hangashore at 5:38 AM on September 12, 2017 [16 favorites]


*declares superfund site*
posted by pyramid termite at 5:43 AM on September 12, 2017 [11 favorites]


*throws ted cruz to the ground, ground throws it back*
posted by Rock Steady at 5:54 AM on September 12, 2017 [21 favorites]


Wonder which 'member' of his 'staff' will be 'fingered' for this?

Meredith!
posted by cmfletcher at 5:56 AM on September 12, 2017 [5 favorites]


gelatinous cube in skin suit was simply attempting to understand human procreation
posted by entropicamericana at 6:05 AM on September 12, 2017 [13 favorites]


I saw bits of response to the Ted Cruz miniscandal (microscandal? leptoscandal?) on social media, and couldn't find context on the NYT politics page or Talking Points Memo. Thank you MetaFilter US politics watchers, especially zachlipton, for relieving my curiosity.

(I think Tim McGovern is subtweeting: "Imagine living your life such that implying you like sex is a scandal.")

I am assuming the tweet-liker is a (possibly now former) staffer, because that's the obvious explanation for a slightly similar thing that once happened with Paula Deen's Twitter feed.
posted by brainwane at 6:10 AM on September 12, 2017 [5 favorites]


Conservatives have a tweet for every occasion:
@tedcruz Jul 21
More
Replying to @tedcruz
We have to deliver now. I believe we can come together. We have to.
posted by jaduncan at 6:17 AM on September 12, 2017 [5 favorites]


the more I try to not think of Cruz watching porn, the more I actually do. Help me.
posted by angrycat at 6:18 AM on September 12, 2017 [5 favorites]


the more I try to not think of Cruz watching porn, the more I actually do. Help me.

It was quite possibly his considerably more attractive social media staffer. You may cast that mental image as per your personal tastes.
posted by jaduncan at 6:22 AM on September 12, 2017 [3 favorites]



It was quite possibly his considerably more attractive social media staffer. You may cast that mental image as per your personal tastes.


Yeah, but still a Republican who thinks it's spiffy to work for Ted Cruz.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:24 AM on September 12, 2017 [5 favorites]


How Trump Is Destroying America - "He disdains the rule of law. He’s trampling norms of presidential behavior. And he’s bringing vital institutions down with him."
These and countless other examples show that presidential norm violations have often been central to presidential leadership. Even if presidents don’t always get the calculation right (Roosevelt’s court-packing plan was and remains almost universally derided), they usually break norms to try to improve the operations of government.

Trump’s norm violations are different. Many of them appear to result from his lack of emotional intelligence—a “president’s ability to manage his emotions and turn them to constructive purposes, rather than being dominated by them and allowing them to diminish his leadership,” as the Princeton political scientist Fred I. Greenstein has put it. Trump’s behavior seems to flow from hypersensitivity untempered by shame, a mercurial and contrarian personality, and a notable lack of self-control.

A corollary to Trump’s shamelessness is that he often doesn’t seek to hide or even spin his norm-breaking. Put another way, he is far less hypocritical than past presidents—and that is a bad thing. Hypocrisy is an underappreciated political virtue. It can palliate self-interested and politically divisive government action through mollifying rhetoric and a call to shared values. Trump is bad at it because he can’t “recognize the difference between what one professes in public and what one does in private, much less the utility of exploiting that difference,” Henry Farrell and Martha Finnemore have noted in Foreign Affairs. He is incapable of keeping his crass thoughts to himself, or of cloaking his speech in other-regarding principle.
Why Norms Matter - "Turns out a lot of politics isn’t governed by written rules. Which was a good thing, until now."
Trump’s assault on norms started during the campaign, when he encouraged violence among his supporters, attacked the ethnicity of a federal judge (a double norm violation) and called for the imprisonment of his opponent. Once he was elected, many observers assumed this pattern would cease: Surely there are constraints on this kind of behavior from the president.
There aren’t—or, at least, there are few formal ones. Many of Trump’s statements and behavior have no precedent in recent history, but they aren’t illegal. He openly admitted to firing James Comey as FBI director because of Comey’s investigation into Russian influence in Trump’s campaign—probably a legal act, but a violation of long-respected norms against political influence in the Justice Department. Similarly, Trump continues to visit and promote his businesses while in office, which would be prohibited for a Cabinet secretary, but is legal for the president. White House jobs for his children? Directly attacking the press? Railing about politics to military service members under his command? These were red lines so strong that they seemed to have the force of law, but no longer.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 6:38 AM on September 12, 2017 [40 favorites]


president’s goddamn adult human being's ability to manage his emotions and turn them to constructive purposes, rather than being dominated by them

fixed
posted by murphy slaw at 7:13 AM on September 12, 2017 [4 favorites]


Since last March, the only thing I've been able to think of when Ted Cruz's name comes up is this Clickhole piece (so [Fake] obvs):

A Tough Call: Ted Cruz Announced He’s Suspending His Campaign To Tend To His Thousands Of Glistening Eggs:

“I need to sing hymns to my eggs, I need to keep my eggs safe from cockroaches and other predators, I need to count my eggs, and I need to keep my eggs wet with Sprite soda. Most importantly, when the eggs hatch, I need to be there so that the hatchlings can devour my body. It has to be me. Thank you to all my supporters, and may God continue to bless this great country.”
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 7:16 AM on September 12, 2017 [26 favorites]


> Wonder which 'member' of his 'staff' will be 'fingered' for this?

And then given the sac
posted by Westringia F. at 7:19 AM on September 12, 2017 [6 favorites]


If you actually did hack Ted Cruz's twitter account, liking one porn tweet and doing nothing else is kind of brilliant.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:31 AM on September 12, 2017 [43 favorites]


Yeah, but still a Republican who thinks it's spiffy to work for Ted Cruz.

Man you live your whole life thinking there's no way you're gonna get dragged into a Ted Cruz jackoff scandal...
posted by SpiffyRob at 7:47 AM on September 12, 2017 [7 favorites]


Why Trump Supporters Might Not Care That He’s Not Getting Anything Done
A big part of the most popular narrative about what’s happening in Washington this year is that Republicans are in increasingly dire danger of alienating their base by failing to accomplish various legislative goals.
...
But there are four key reasons GOP “base” voters might stay in line even if Congress fails to get much done between now and November 2018:
...
1) Conservatives are inherently happier with gridlock than are liberals...

2) Conservative “base” voters and activists are not united among themselves on some key elements of the GOP agenda...

3) Much of today’s partisan voting is tribal rather than issues-oriented, which makes it far more durable...

4) Many “base” activists are playing a long game in which Trump and the GOP have not yet fatally disappointed them
posted by kirkaracha at 8:09 AM on September 12, 2017 [14 favorites]


5) He's appointing extremist right wing zealots to lifetime seats on SCOTUS and the Federal courts, and Republicans, unlike liberals and progressives, realize that control of the courts will allow them to enact an unpopular agenda outside of democratically elected channels, and maintain power despite an ever decreasing share of the popular vote.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:15 AM on September 12, 2017 [52 favorites]


TD Strange's point 5 is basically point 4 ("playing a long game") made more explicit.
posted by Gelatin at 8:19 AM on September 12, 2017 [3 favorites]


This is the next pony I want, the last two were great, they being: the vanishing of Richard Spencer mostly after the punch entree, and Milo Yiannopoulos after his pro pedophilia announcement. Could the media please stop talking with/about, and posting pictures of, good, bad or heroically posed, Steve Bannon? He needs extinction protocol more than anyone. It is ridiculous that the press corps has nothing better to cover than his pathetic thrashings. If he wants news coverage, let him pay for it via his media organization. Bannon is a national embarrassment, a needy, desperate, blubbering mess. What is the fascination with him? His threats and bluster are now approaching Knights of Ni.
posted by Oyéah at 8:32 AM on September 12, 2017 [18 favorites]


So yeah, as suspected, Milo Yiannopoulos was lying about his house being destroyed.

Using someone else's misery and the national disaster to be a dumbass troll again. He can go crawl back under his rock now.
posted by darkstar at 8:39 AM on September 12, 2017 [38 favorites]


Another thing I would really like to see, is when they finally get Trump's portraits up in the border offices and everywhere else, it intersects with his mug shot at booking, and those images stay up a while for the laughs, until Pence's mugshots come out as replacements.
posted by Oyéah at 8:39 AM on September 12, 2017 [5 favorites]


My tiniest itsiest bitsiest bit of respect to Bannon is that he's apparently refusing the pancake makeup that virtually everyone uses on camera. Or maybe that's the best they can do?

People look terrible, without makeup, on TV. Not wearing it doesn't make you a Special Authentic Person; it makes you a fool, who won't listen to people who know their trade.
posted by thelonius at 8:44 AM on September 12, 2017 [21 favorites]


Any discussion of the current flouting of political norms that considers only Trump and ignores the Senate's refusal to consider Merrick Garland's SCOTUS nomination is incomplete.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 8:48 AM on September 12, 2017 [36 favorites]


Trump’s Voter Fraud Panel, No Stranger to Controversy, Creates Another One
Mr. Gardner said he did not necessarily favor imposing new qualifications for registering and voting, but he added that when burdens like poll taxes and literacy tests were imposed on citizens and registering often required a trip to the local courthouse, voter turnout was far higher than it is now.
posted by hanov3r at 8:49 AM on September 12, 2017 [7 favorites]


Everything I've ever read about interacting with TV cameras says (after a lot of advice about how to avoid them, how to turn down requests comment politely) that you should wear solid colors, take your glasses off if they're not anti-reflective, and WEAR THE MAKEUP THEY OFFER YOU, it's not unmanly, you just look like an unmade bed on TV without it.
posted by blnkfrnk at 8:50 AM on September 12, 2017 [4 favorites]


> 6) Most Trump supporters know fuck-all about how the government works in the least, and therefore have no idea what he should be doing beyond talking shit at rallies and on Twitter. I'm not exaggerating—most Trump voters I know pull the lever for the Republicans every two to four years, but could not name the three branches of the federal government, let alone describe their function and the system of checks and balances between them.
posted by Rykey at 9:02 AM on September 12, 2017 [17 favorites]


So, one of the stars of Ted Cruz's new favorite video was understandably confused upon waking up this morning to discover their Twitter mentions had exploded in the night:

[link goes to porn star's Twitter feed]
@CoryChaseXXX: So I hear I am trending with Ted Cruz. I am literally in the dark with hardly any access to the internet world #OMG #hurricaneimra
posted by Atom Eyes at 9:05 AM on September 12, 2017 [8 favorites]


Seen on FB: "If you didn't use TED CRUZ BLAMES HIS STAFF as a headline today, get out of the news business and find a real job."
posted by hanov3r at 9:18 AM on September 12, 2017 [66 favorites]


Jennifer Rubin in the Washington Post: Republicans’ tax-cut myth is about to crumble
So what happens if the GOP’s MacGuffin gets written out of the script? One option would be to work on some small subset of tax reform, such as a revenue-neutral corporate tax reform (not cut). That would be logical, but in the “all or nothing” mentality that permeates the GOP, it doesn’t seem likely to attract much interest. The GOP could turn to other things that might be doable — infrastructure, a fix for the Obamacare exchanges, etc. But those in and of themselves are divisive within the GOP (as is a fix for the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program, of course); moreover, these are not the sort of things that animate the whole party, bringing disparate strains of the party together and producing a kumbaya moment for a party at war with itself. You see, given that the GOP has devoted so much energy to the prospect of tax cuts, failure to attain that prize in all likelihood will leave the party more divided and dispirited than ever before.

The idea that House Speaker Paul D. Ryan (R-Wis.) is somehow better off after the debt-ceiling deal or that the debt deal “cleared the decks” so tax reform could get done strikes me as rather delusional. If Republicans don’t get their save-their-skins-and-the-party tax plan, I suspect you’ll see a bunch more congressional retirements, a whole lot of alt-right challengers and a really angry GOP donor community. At some point they might even begin to ask: What good is Trump if he can’t get us anything we really want?
To me it's long sounded like the Republicans proposed tax fuckery sounds very complicated, with many competing interest groups wanting to enact their own pet tax proposals. Maybe they will be able to cobble together some consensus, but T is driven strongly by his own aggrandizement, while Paul Ryan is an smug, ineffectual twit who has virtually no legislative accomplishments in his career. McConnell is skillful enough to cobble together the 51 votes needed to pass something under Reconciliation, but it seems doubtful whether he will be able to get such a resolution that adheres to the Byrd Rule.

This timeline is so stupid.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:19 AM on September 12, 2017 [30 favorites]


the jerk off is in THE HOUSE, CORY!! RUN!!!!!!!
posted by pyramid termite at 9:19 AM on September 12, 2017 [1 favorite]


The Republican Plan to Use the Steele Dossier to Attack James Comey
Working from the premise that Steele’s dossier is discredited, Republicans hope to attach Comey to it, and thereby sink his reputation. But it’s possible their argument will do something else entirely: They might prove Steele was right after all.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:30 AM on September 12, 2017 [6 favorites]


McConnell is skillful enough to cobble together the 51 votes needed to pass something under Reconciliation

Possibly, but if memory serves me correctly, the Republicans -- and more importantly, their ultra-wealthy backers -- don't want that option, as any tax cuts would sunset in ten years.
posted by Gelatin at 9:33 AM on September 12, 2017


The current republicans' predicament is why I am in favor of incremental change if we can't get something done in one legislative push, because otherwise you fracture your side without any wins at all. I know that my view isn't for everyone, and we need the far left to keep tugging the Overton window back, but it is nice to see that the "all or nothing" is likely to bite the Freedom Caucus in the butt.
posted by Hermeowne Grangepurr at 9:35 AM on September 12, 2017 [5 favorites]


FBI shutting that barn door hard after they helped the thieves make off with all the horses.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:38 AM on September 12, 2017 [24 favorites]


The Republican Plan to Use the Steele Dossier to Attack James Comey

I wish the Steele Dossier hadn't mentioned the pee tape, because it's so salacious it takes attention away from the other, more serious allegations in the dossier, and since it hasn't been proven the Republicans are claiming the entire dossier is fake.
That said, as Sipher notes, Steele is a highly respected investigator, and as time has passed, his dossier has looked better and better. He outlined the contours of a Russian plot to help elect Trump, and many of its detailed elements. Steele discovered that Russia had offered the Trump campaign compromising material on Hillary Clinton, a fact that has subsequently been confirmed by the New York Times. Steele accurately described, among other things, the involvement of Russian embassy staff in the plot, Paul Manafort’s off-the-books payments from a pro-Russian party in Ukraine, and Trump’s stalled negotiations to receive licensing payments for projects in Russia. (The latter was recently bolstered by a 2015 letter of intent from the Trump Organization, obtained by CNN, outlining an unconsummated deal that would have given Trump a $4 million upfront fee at no risk.)

Steele found out a lot of detail about Trump’s dealings with Russia before the rest of the world caught on. All this implies that the still-unproven elements of Steele’s reporting, including sexual blackmail, are more likely to be correct than skeptics may have once assumed.
posted by kirkaracha at 9:40 AM on September 12, 2017 [28 favorites]


The article also says some of the allegations in the dossier "were outright erroneous" but doesn't mention which ones. I can't recall any of these offhand. I haven't been tracking it closely, but my impression is that most of the allegations are either still unverified or have been corroborated.
posted by kirkaracha at 9:42 AM on September 12, 2017 [3 favorites]


Voter Fraud Commission Holds Second Meeting In New Hampshire Amid Controversy (Sept. 11, 2017) -President Trump's controversial commission looking into voter fraud holds its first meeting outside Washington, D.C., on Tuesday in New Hampshire. The federal panel has been unusually secretive and is being sued by voter advocacy groups, who want it to be more transparent about its agenda.

And then there's this: Tammy Patrick, a former Arizona election official who served on another election commission, one appointed by President Obama, and was co-chaired by two widely respected election attorneys, one a Democrat, the other a Republican, said this:
We really felt that the voters' perspective and the voters' experience was the main tenet of our effort. And so we needed to hear from the voters in addition to election administrators and other experts.
So where's the record of their efforts?
Pam Fessler: Its recommendations for things like more early voting have since been widely adopted, although you might have a hard time finding its final report. One of the first things the new Trump administration did was to take down that commission's website, including all of its findings and public records.
Luckily, a mirror of the PCEA (Presidential Commission on Election Administration) is online (direct link), and because Archive.org doesn't pay attention to robots.txt files from U.S. government and military web sites any more, you can also find the site crawled there.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:57 AM on September 12, 2017 [32 favorites]


The article also says some of the allegations in the dossier "were outright erroneous"

The only "outright erroneous" claim I remember is the claim that Michael Cohen had a meeting in Prague with Kremlin representatives in August/September 2016. Turns out he was in Europe in July but not in "August/September." It was later revealed that the information in the memo might have been about a different Michael Cohen.

Commentary I remember from that time suggested that the dossier was "raw intelligence" and that raw intelligence often includes some wrong information mixed in with correct information, and that it takes practice to read reports like that with the right level of skepticism. If there really was another guy named Michael Cohen meeting with Kremlin agents, it's an understandable mistake.

Of course some claims have been verified as well.
posted by OnceUponATime at 10:00 AM on September 12, 2017 [3 favorites]


Bob Corker mulling not running again. TN would obviously be challenging, but perhaps not impossible for a Dem pickup.

Nashville insiders have said for awhile he is probably not going to run. Our current governor (Haslam) is term limited. Normally, the thing for a term limited governor to do would be either to run for President or for Senate. Problem is, Haslam and Corker are part of the same Ol' Boy's club. In this case, literally - their campaign staffs have a tremendous amount of overlap and they have decades of working together at the state level.

So, Haslam isn't going to primary against his own party, and he can't effectively run against his best political buddy. But, we might just see the ol "Tennessee Two-Step." Corker steps down from the senate to run for governor, while Haslam runs for Corker's senate seat. If this goes down, it's basically an incumbent running in all but name and will be virtually impossible for a Dem to pick up.

(If Alexander steps down in 2020 - which I'm inclined to think he will - it will be a different story since that is CLEARLY going to be Trump Referendum year where a D might have a showball's chance against a divided, non-incumbent field.)

Side note: I absolutely love this strategic layer overview of the 2018 elections. Maybe they ought to get their own thread?
posted by absalom at 10:21 AM on September 12, 2017 [3 favorites]


The Republican Plan to Use the Steele Dossier to Attack James Comey

Can't find a cite right now, but I believe it was originally a well-meaning Republican congressman who was certain that if those Oval Office tapes could just be listened to, everybody would see once and for all that Nixon was innocent of any wrongdoing.

So yeah, Congressional Rs, you get that dossier into the daylight and let's get Trump vindicated. You know the libruls would just hate that.
posted by Rykey at 10:21 AM on September 12, 2017 [10 favorites]


Law making it illegal to collect data, photo of open land hangs in balance (David Kravets for Ars Technica, Sept. 11, 2017) -- Court: “Collection of resource data constitutes the protected creation of speech.” (URL: Ag-gag law gets taken to the slaughter house)
Wyoming lawmakers adopted legislation in 2015 making it illegal to gather data on open lands for the purpose of reporting harmful farming practices, environmental degradation, or other ills. That includes performing water quality tests or taking photographs. Fearing constitutional concerns, the state legislature amended the law last year to say virtually the same thing but with a caveat: it's illegal to do such gathering if the observer does it from private property or had to cross private property first before entering public lands to do their investigation.

And a federal judge bought it and said there was nothing unconstitutional about the ag-gag law because, you know, trespassing is an illegal act.

Conservation and animal rights groups took the decision to a federal appeals court. Days ago, the appeals court put that lower court's decision on life support. The 10th US Circuit Court of Appeals said the ordinance stifles speech, particularly speech necessary for public discourse about environmental and animal safety regulations.

"An individual who photographs animals or takes notes about habitat conditions is creating speech in the same manner as an individual who records a police encounter," the Denver-based court concluded. (PDF)
...
The appeals court didn't kill the legislation altogether. It ordered a lower court to decide whether the law could survive even if the measure restricts free speech.

For the lower courts to side with Wyoming, a judge would have to agree that protecting trespassing laws serves a greater governmental interest than protecting free speech when it comes to reporting on agribusiness pollution and animal rights.

"We conclude that plaintiffs collection of resource data constitutes the protected creation of speech," the appeals court wrote when sending the case back to the lower courts.

The reason the appellate court remanded to the lower court was because the lower court had not performed this so-called balancing test. The lower court said there was no constitutional right to trespass and stopped at that.

"We think it the better practice to remand to allow the district court to consider those issues in the first instance," the appeals court wrote.
posted by filthy light thief at 10:32 AM on September 12, 2017 [22 favorites]


The decision by the board gives the state’s jurisdictions that still use touch-screen electronic machines just eight weeks to obtain and deploy new technology. Administrators noted just 140 precincts serving roughly 190,000 of Virginia’s five million voters will be affected by the decision. Most jurisdictions in the state have already eliminated the technology.

This is not really accurate in the implication that this must be a big endeavor. Yes, some areas may need to get more machines to handle the workload. However it's almost certainly not going to involve a need to "deploy new technology." Virginia banned the acquisition of new touch screen voting machines close to 10 years ago now. So any region running elections already had to have getting new non-touch machines on their radar, bare minimum. More likely, if they didn't have sensible people at the top (see: my own Arlington[1]) and insisted on continuing to use touch machines after that buy ban, they have run scanners side by side and given voters a choice.

So, out of those 140 I suppose it's remotely possible that one has babied their touch machines so they can still use them exclusively and are so incompetent they weren't planning for this day, but it seems super unlikely.

Really, the absolute worst case scenario is pretty ho-hum other than for the American expectation of immediate gratification: get one of your neighboring districts to help you create the scan-compliant paper ballots and use those all day on election day. The next day (or week or even month, really) you borrow one of those machines (and do whatever calibration & certification etc.) and scan them all. You have plenty of time before you legally have to certify the election. It would annoy the people who expect results minutes after the polls close but it's not remotely a threat to democracy or the vote.

[1] Our director of elections stood in front of one of my elector training classes 5+ years ago and said they'd use the existing stock of touch machines till they were pried out of her hands. That apparently wasn't quite true since in my precinct in 2016 it was all optical scan & paper.
posted by phearlez at 10:34 AM on September 12, 2017 [2 favorites]


I wish the Steele Dossier hadn't mentioned the pee tape, because it's so salacious it takes attention away from the other, more serious allegations in the dossier, and since it hasn't been proven the Republicans are claiming the entire dossier is fake.

Ben Macintyre, author of several books on British Intelligence, discussed an interesting theory in a recent interview with him and John Le Carré.
S.L. Do you think the Russians really have something on Trump?

B.M. I can tell you what the veterans of the S.I.S. [the British Secret Intelligence Service, or MI6] think, which is yes, kompromat was done on him. Of course, kompromat is done on everyone. So they end up, the theory goes, with this compromising bit of material and then they begin to release parts of it. They set up an ex-MI6 guy, Chris Steele, who is a patsy, effectively, and they feed him some stuff that’s true, and some stuff that isn’t true, and some stuff that is demonstrably wrong. Which means that Trump can then stand up and deny it, while knowing that the essence of it is true. And then he has a stone in his shoe for the rest of his administration. It’s important to remember that Putin is a K.G.B.-trained officer, and he thinks in the traditional K.G.B. way.

J.L.C. The mentality that is operating in Russia now is absolutely, as far as Putin is concerned, no different to the mentality that drove the most exotic conspiracies during the Cold War. It worked then, it works now. As far as Trump, I would suspect they have it, because they’ve denied it. If they have it and they’ve set Trump up, they’d say, “Oh no, we haven’t got anything.” But to Trump they’re saying, “Aren’t we being kind to you?”

B.M. And today you get this wonderful Russian lawyer woman [Natalia Veselnitskaya, who was in the pre-election meeting at Trump Tower with Donald Trump Jr.] who is straight out of one of our books, a character that is possibly connected to the Russian state. Who knows? They exist somewhere in that foggy, deniable hinterland. It’s called maskirovka — little masquerade — where you create so much confusion and uncertainty and mystery that no one knows what the truth is.

J.L.C. For Putin, it’s a kind of little piece of background music to keep things going. The smoking gun might or might not be the documents exchanged about the Trump Tower in Moscow [which Trump is said to have been planning to build]. Then there’s the really seedy stuff in the Caucasus. There are bits of scandal which, if added up, might suggest he went to Russia for money. And that would then fit in with the fact that he isn’t half as, a tenth as rich as he pretends to be.
posted by chris24 at 10:50 AM on September 12, 2017 [34 favorites]


I wish the Steele Dossier hadn't mentioned the pee tape, because it's so salacious it takes attention away from the other, more serious allegations in the dossier, and since it hasn't been proven the Republicans are claiming the entire dossier is fake.

This is the function of the pee tape. It does not actually exist. Money laundering, corruption, and selling the foreign policy of the United States for profit are all real. The pee tape is not. The idea is a classic disinformation ruse. It was inserted into the Steele dossier as a way to discredit the parts that are actually true, and actually serious crimes.
posted by vibrotronica at 10:52 AM on September 12, 2017 [20 favorites]


Metafilter: This is the function of the pee tape. It does not actually exist.
posted by Melismata at 10:55 AM on September 12, 2017 [9 favorites]


The only "outright erroneous" claim I remember is the claim that Michael Cohen had a meeting in Prague with Kremlin representatives in August/September 2016. Turns out he was in Europe in July but not in "August/September." It was later revealed that the information in the memo might have been about a different Michael Cohen.

IIRC you can't call "case closed" on that Cohen allegation without believing Cohen, he of the photo of a closed passport as proof, who didn't even give Hannity a peek at the inside when he went on to flash his closed passport on that show. I would more easily believe that the dossier source had the gist right and the dates wrong than believe Cohen.
posted by jason_steakums at 10:58 AM on September 12, 2017 [4 favorites]


He let Buzzfeed see the inside of his passport, and those pictures are at my "Europe in July" link.
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:03 AM on September 12, 2017 [2 favorites]


The pee tape is real. Why would Trump get all defensive with Comey and specifically mention that he had nothing to do with hookers in Russia?

It's like when he says 'believe me'.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 11:04 AM on September 12, 2017 [7 favorites]


Court action on New Hampshire's odious SB3:
New Hampshire’s Supreme Court has blocked recent changes to the state’s voting laws that would have exposed some first-time voters to a fine or jail time if they failed to submit residence paperwork within 10 days of registering.
posted by Chrysostom at 11:05 AM on September 12, 2017 [17 favorites]


I want to peelieve.
posted by Behemoth at 11:09 AM on September 12, 2017 [21 favorites]


Give it a rest, people. There is no pee tape. This is such a silly distraction from the other important things we need to be resisting Trump on. Don't you know nobody shoots on "tape" anymore? It's a pee video.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:11 AM on September 12, 2017 [15 favorites]




Give it a rest, people. There is no pee tape. This is such a silly distraction from the other important things we need to be resisting Trump on. Don't you know nobody shoots on "tape" anymore? It's a pee video.

An MPEE4, if you will.
posted by zarq at 11:36 AM on September 12, 2017 [25 favorites]


> An MPEE4, if you will.

I most certainly will not!

I mean, at least buy me dinner first.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:39 AM on September 12, 2017 [7 favorites]


Someone explain why an intern would be browsing porn while using Cruz's twitter account? Anyone? Anyone?
posted by Justinian at 11:40 AM on September 12, 2017 [5 favorites]


Presumably the intern has both accounts logged in on his phone (the Twitter app supports this; you tap a button to switch between them) and got a bit.....hasty when opening the app during alone time.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 11:47 AM on September 12, 2017 [8 favorites]


Someone explain why an intern would be browsing porn while using Cruz's twitter account? Anyone? Anyone?

I manage multiple twitter and instagram accounts for work and it is not always immediately apparent in the android Twitter app which account you are using to favorite or post with. In fact, it's surprisingly easy to post the wrong thing to the wrong account.
posted by zarq at 11:49 AM on September 12, 2017 [1 favorite]


Mod note: Cohen was with family and friends, he said, including the musician and actor Steve Van Zandt. Van Zandt did not immediately return an email seeking comment.

Reached later, Van Zandt said, "just when I try to get out, they pull me back in."
fake
posted by kirkaracha (staff) at 11:53 AM on September 12, 2017 [8 favorites]


I manage multiple twitter and instagram accounts for work and it is not always immediately apparent in the android Twitter app which account you are using to favorite or post with. In fact, it's surprisingly easy to post the wrong thing to the wrong account.

So you need to be extra careful, when engaged in perfectly ordinary, above-board behavior, not to reveal that you're also doing something gross and despicable. By which I mean, be careful when you're watching porn, or else people might find out that you work for Ted Cruz.
posted by Faint of Butt at 11:56 AM on September 12, 2017 [66 favorites]


>McConnell is skillful enough to cobble together the 51 votes needed to pass something under Reconciliation

>Possibly, but if memory serves me correctly, the Republicans -- and more importantly, their ultra-wealthy backers -- don't want that option, as any tax cuts would sunset in ten years.


They will take the 10-year deal. It's the same deal they made with the Bush tax cuts in 2001. In 2011 when they were supposed to sunset, they used the debt limit hostage to keep many of those tax cuts. The Republican tax cut plan will not be filibustered. They will use reconciliation, just like they did for Obamacare repeal.

Certainly they would prefer "permanent" tax cuts, but nothing is ever permanent anyway. Subsequent administrations can change them. A 10 year deal is about as permanent as anything in Washington.
posted by JackFlash at 11:56 AM on September 12, 2017 [6 favorites]


Russia Sought A Broad Reset With Trump, Secret Document Shows (John Hudson for Buzzfeed, Sept. 12, 2017) -- A Russian proposal obtained by BuzzFeed News reveals Moscow’s ambitious plan to break with the past and launch a major rapprochement with the United States.
In the third month of Donald Trump’s presidency, Vladimir Putin dispatched one of his diplomats to the State Department to deliver a bold proposition: The full normalization of relations between the United States and Russia across all major branches of government.

The proposal, spelled out in a detailed document obtained by BuzzFeed News, called for the wholesale restoration of diplomatic, military and intelligence channels severed between the two countries after Russia’s military interventions in Ukraine and Syria.

The broad scope of the Kremlin’s reset plan came with an ambitious launch date: immediately.

By April, a top Russian cyber official, Andrey Krutskikh, would meet with his American counterpart for consultations on “information security,” the document proposed. By May, the two countries would hold “special consultations” on the war in Afghanistan, the Iran nuclear deal, the “situation in Ukraine,” and efforts to denuclearize the “Korean Peninsula.” And by the time Putin and Trump held their first meeting, the heads of the CIA, FBI, National Security Council and Pentagon would meet face-to-face with their Russian counterparts to discuss areas of mutual interest. A raft of other military and diplomatic channels opened during the Obama administration’s first-term “reset” would also be restored.

"This document represents nothing less than a road map for full-scale normalization of US-Russian relations,” said Andrew Weiss, the vice president for studies at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, after reviewing the proposal provided by BuzzFeed News.
...
“It just ignores everything that caused the relationship to deteriorate and pretends that the election interference and the Ukraine crisis never happened,” said Angela Stent, a former national intelligence officer on Russia during the George W. Bush administration who also reviewed the document.

As of today, only a small fraction of the dozens of proposed meetings have taken place — and many of the formalized talks appear unlikely to happen as Moscow and Washington expel one another's diplomats and close diplomatic facilities in a tit-for-tat downward spiral.
...
“Putin doesn’t seem to understand that Trump’s powers are not the same as his,” said Steven Pifer, a Russia expert at the Brookings Institution. “The checks and balances, the special prosecutor and congressional investigations have tied Trump’s hands in ways that didn’t occur to Putin.”

When asked if he is disappointed in Trump, given early hopes of improved relations, Putin has responded frostily.

“Your question sounds very naive,” Putin told a reporter [YT] at a press conference in China last week. “He is not my bride, and I am not his groom.”
Interesting that Putin chose those genders for their non-roles.
posted by filthy light thief at 12:05 PM on September 12, 2017 [42 favorites]


Still, the fact that any of the proposed meetings took place seems rather meaningful.
posted by filthy light thief at 12:06 PM on September 12, 2017


I can think of something else Ted should have kept "in his" (pants).

the fish would die.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 12:06 PM on September 12, 2017 [11 favorites]


At the daily press briefing: a reporter asks if Trump will read Clinton's book; Huckabee-Sanders responds that it's sad that Clinton is reduced to "propping up book sales." If only she'd picked something really prestigious like hocking steaks and wine.
posted by XMLicious at 12:08 PM on September 12, 2017 [9 favorites]


Trump has made 1,145 false or misleading claims according to the Washington Post, but yeah, let's waste time asking about Clinton's book instead of questioning the lies. What the hell?
posted by zachlipton at 12:10 PM on September 12, 2017 [28 favorites]


Huckabee Sanders also said it's sad Clinton's book will be "the last chapter of her public life," which sounds downright threatening.
posted by zachlipton at 12:11 PM on September 12, 2017 [18 favorites]


XMLicious: At the daily press briefing: a reporter asks if Trump will read Clinton's book; Huckabee-Sanders responds that it's sad that Clinton is reduced to "propping up book sales."

Let the record note that Huckabee-Sanders failed to address the question, or clarify if Trump can actually read at all.

Musing out loud: what if he's able to read, but refuses to wear reading glasses because he'd look like a nerd, and everyone hates nerds? Distance vision is passable, but books are just a lot of blurry shapes. Videos are easier to track, or billboard-sized text on powerpoint print-outs also work in a pinch.
posted by filthy light thief at 12:11 PM on September 12, 2017 [3 favorites]


Musing out loud: what if he's able to read, but refuses to wear reading glasses because he'd look like a nerd

This is now my head cannon. Would explain how he is able to reed teleprompters but not daily briefings. Also I have known men who resisted wearing glasses for exactly this reason.
posted by OnceUponATime at 12:25 PM on September 12, 2017 [6 favorites]


Today's "let's be super unprofessional by having everyone at the White House call up the Daily Beast and complain about a colleague" session is dedicated to Omarosa: How Omarosa Became the Most ‘Despised’ Person in the Trump White House
According to four sources in and outside the West Wing, the longtime Trump confidant is isolated inside 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue as she quietly plots against her fellow senior officials. Colleagues regularly complain about Manigault’s behavior and work ethic. She frequently derails internal meetings with irrelevant or counterproductive interjections and she’s earned a reputation for attempting to micromanage White House communications operations.

White House chief of staff John Kelly has tried to curtail Manigault’s direct access to the president, as The Daily Beast reported earlier this month. But her continued proximity to Trump—he speaks with her over the phone, even in the middle of the night—underscores just how thorny her tenure has been for those tasked with managing the administration.

“She doesn’t have any friends in high places—except the one place [where] it matters,” said one Republican official close to the White House and familiar with internal operations, referring to the president. Outside of Trump, she is widely “despised” among West Wing staff, the official added.
...
White House officials say that during meetings that include Manigault, aides will often take out their smartphones and start messaging each other saying they wished she would stop talking or leave the room entirely.
Even as Kelly has blocked her from wandering into the Oval Office to get Trump riled up, he continues to call her up late at night to chat.
posted by zachlipton at 12:28 PM on September 12, 2017 [4 favorites]


A Russian proposal obtained by BuzzFeed News reveals Moscow’s ambitious plan to break with the past and launch a major rapprochement with the United States.

Oh, well thank Christ we've got a fully-staffed administration not pocked with resignations and unfilled positions, and headed by the brightest diplomatic and geopolitical minds the planet has to offer, and totally not compromised by the dealings they've already had with Russian government or business figures, then. Otherwise, we'd run the risk of getting totally played by the Russians!
posted by Rykey at 12:30 PM on September 12, 2017 [5 favorites]


Oh god SNL needs to do Telephone Hour from Bye Bye Birdie with these fools.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 12:32 PM on September 12, 2017 [7 favorites]


Omarosa Manigault is a terrible person and not the slightest bit qualified to do anything she's doing right now, but I guarantee she wouldn't be nearly as despised among her fellow WH staffers if she were a white man.
posted by Faint of Butt at 12:34 PM on September 12, 2017 [45 favorites]


How Omorosa became the most deposed person in the White House

She entered the White House.
posted by orange ball at 12:38 PM on September 12, 2017 [1 favorite]


She's not there to make friends.
posted by peeedro at 12:40 PM on September 12, 2017 [27 favorites]


The Justice Department won't charge any of the six Baltimore officers involved in Freddie Gray's death. This is completely unsurprising yet still somehow feels like a punch to the gut.
posted by zachlipton at 12:41 PM on September 12, 2017 [39 favorites]


Musing out loud: what if he's able to read, but refuses to wear reading glasses because he'd look like a nerd

There are many, many images showing Trump wearing reading glasses in public, including some posted by him.
posted by 0xFCAF at 12:42 PM on September 12, 2017 [3 favorites]


There are many, many images showing Trump wearing reading glasses in public, including some posted by him.

Er, there's a few there. There are actually more pictures in your link of Trump not wearing eclipse-viewing glasses during the eclipse than there are of him wearing reading glasses.
posted by Cookiebastard at 12:47 PM on September 12, 2017 [3 favorites]


Bloomberg: Manchin says Congress should explore single-payer.
posted by Chrysostom at 12:49 PM on September 12, 2017 [23 favorites]


Bloomberg: Manchin says Congress should explore single-payer.

When a Senator from a state Trump won 69-26 says this, we may be at a turning point.
posted by chris24 at 12:53 PM on September 12, 2017 [35 favorites]


Rick Perry actually doesn't look terrible in glasses. Steve Mnuchin looks like a nearsighted Squidward.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 12:55 PM on September 12, 2017 [5 favorites]


Bloomberg: Manchin says Congress should explore single-payer.

MANCHIN?

Have there just been some insane internal polling results these past few weeks that have been dictating the choices we've seen? Pelosi and Schumer setting the agenda, Republican incumbents retiring left and right, fucking Manchin being towards the front of the pack of Dems getting on the single payer train?
posted by jason_steakums at 12:57 PM on September 12, 2017 [20 favorites]


Steve Mnuchin has chosen the exact wrong frames for his face shape. He had hundreds of choices and zeroed in on the absolute worst one.
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:00 PM on September 12, 2017 [2 favorites]


He had hundreds of choices and zeroed in on the absolute worst one.

Seems like a metaphor for the entire Trump administration.
posted by Justinian at 1:05 PM on September 12, 2017 [30 favorites]


Tammy Baldwin backed it, too. WI went Trump narrowly, of course.
posted by Chrysostom at 1:06 PM on September 12, 2017 [2 favorites]


I...am I seeing this correctly? Are there now a number of relatively mainstream - and even center-right - Democrats, currently in office, calling for Single Payer?

What the hell happened? It's like I don't understand anything anymore. Single Payer was like socialism/poison only a year ago, and now we're seeing the beginnings of a groundswell in support of it?

I'm...cautiously optimistic. I just wonder what happened.

Sanders, I'm looking at you...
posted by darkstar at 1:07 PM on September 12, 2017 [12 favorites]


This call for Single Payer is gonna threaten to turn into our Repeal&Replace if we're not careful. Congressional Democrats better be goddamn sure they know exactly what they want and how to implement it before they suddenly find themselves back in power and have to put up or shut up.
posted by Justinian at 1:09 PM on September 12, 2017 [46 favorites]


Steele discovered that Russia had offered the Trump campaign compromising material on Hillary Clinton, a fact that has subsequently been confirmed by the New York Times.

Confirmed by Trump, Jr., too.
posted by Mental Wimp at 1:14 PM on September 12, 2017 [8 favorites]


> An MPEE4, if you will.

I most certainly will not


1,153.00RUB, SAIT?
posted by sebastienbailard at 1:15 PM on September 12, 2017 [5 favorites]


> This call for Single Payer is gonna threaten to turn into our Repeal&Replace if we're not careful. Congressional Democrats better be goddamn sure they know exactly what they want and how to implement it before they suddenly find themselves back in power and have to put up or shut up.

Perhaps, but unlike the GOP's "repeal everything, then do some unspecified tweaks that no two people in the GOP caucus can agree on in the hopes of arriving at something RomneyCare-ish, but less generous" strategy, there's a perfect vehicle for gradual transition to single-payer with the ability to expand Medicare/Medicaid (lower eligibility age/raise eligibility income/etc.) The Dems could in good faith say "we're trying to transition to single-payer" while still allowing the ACA and private insurance to cover people, just with an ever-decreasing market share. The important thing is stating it as a goal and being on a credible path toward it.

Does that lose us some hard-left "single payer or GTFO" folks? Probably. But I think anything that could get Sanders and Manchin on the same page is worth a look.
posted by tonycpsu at 1:17 PM on September 12, 2017 [27 favorites]


Well, I think Dems would be willing to do this thing where we have hearings with experts and discuss in in committee and so forth. Might work better than having like three people write a bill over the weekend, I don't know.
posted by Chrysostom at 1:18 PM on September 12, 2017 [50 favorites]


This call for Single Payer is gonna threaten to turn into our Repeal&Replace if we're not careful.

Yes. Single payer is great and all. I am as pissed off as anyone else about the fact that the well being of my children depends on the whims of my employer (they have a genetic condition that requires expensive treatment.)

But "Medicare for all" as slogan does not make me stand up and cheer. Because Medicare does not actually cover treatment for my children's condition. (This is a historical accident based on the fact that doctors used to believe the condition only needed be treated in children, and Medicare doesn't cover children.)

There are a million and one details to be sorted out here. Who will lose their jobs? What will hospital re-imbursement rates be? Will this affect the doctor and hospital shortages in rural areas? How will doctors repay their loans? How does nationalizing a fifth of our economy affect economic growth? What about the pharmaceutical industry? Will their profits fall? If so, will that cut into the incentives for R&D? Or will all drug R&D now be done by national labs? How will we build up that capacity? But ALSO what about my kids? Will their medicine be covered? I might be one of relatively few people asking that question about my kids' specific medicine. But there will be millions of people asking variations on What about my kids?

Sanders' plan does not have answers to all those questions right now. Support for it is symbolic support for the idea of single payer. But the political opposition to putting into practice without answers to all of those questions would be insurmountable. If we don't come up with a plan which does have answers to those questions and have it ready to go, then when and if we actually win elections we'll be in the same position as Republicans were in with Repeal and Replace -- unable to deliver on promises which were so vague that we never really agreed on what they meant.

(Personally I currently like Chris Murphy's idea for an on-ramp to single payer, but I am open to other proposals, as long as they have details..)
posted by OnceUponATime at 1:20 PM on September 12, 2017 [24 favorites]


There are still plenty of ways to look bad with regular order. I'm not saying it's going to happen, I'm just saying they need to be careful not to use single payer as a shibboleth rather than a serious policy proposal.

On the topic of health care, it looks like Graham-Cassidy is DOA to me. They have 2.5 weeks and they think they're going to shove this monstrosity through? No way?
posted by Justinian at 1:21 PM on September 12, 2017 [2 favorites]


OUAT's comment is what I was saying. Devil, details, etc.
posted by Justinian at 1:23 PM on September 12, 2017 [3 favorites]


Graham-Cassidy is 99% dead, yeah. Hatch and Paul have both pissed on it.
posted by Chrysostom at 1:24 PM on September 12, 2017 [1 favorite]


What the hell happened? It's like I don't understand anything anymore. Single Payer was like socialism/poison only a year ago, and now we're seeing the beginnings of a groundswell in support of it?

I'm...cautiously optimistic. I just wonder what happened.


Actually, upong further reflection, I know exactly what has happened:

(1) the implementation of the ACA has made everyone, even conservatives, aware of how shitty our health care system was beforehand,

(2) the constant demonization of the ACA by the Republicans has amplified the message that the ACA still has imperfections,

(3) the complete collapse of any pretense at the GOP having a viable alternative has people looking seriously at what other options are out there, making single payer more palatable, and

(4) the efforts of Sanders and others to shift the Overton Window toward Medicare for All has carved out the requisite thought space for single payer to actually be considered in the mainstream of the body politic.

It IS, in fact, pretty encouraging.


(On preview, agreeing with cjelli's comment.)
posted by darkstar at 1:31 PM on September 12, 2017 [46 favorites]


But 'Medicare for all' as slogan does not make me stand up and cheer. Because Medicare does not actually cover treatment for my children's condition.

That's the "for all" part.

And I believe "Medicare for all" doesn't necessarily literally mean expanding the existing Medicare program to cover everyone; it's more of a slogan that easily explains the concept.
posted by kirkaracha at 1:32 PM on September 12, 2017 [14 favorites]


We shouldn't overlook that Trump actually ran against the ACA from the left. He talked about repealing it...and replacing it with "something great" that covered everyone, for cheaper. He never actually ran on the ACA repeal plans Republicans tried to pass, because those plans never existed until he won and Republican had to suddenly invent them. Now, he was lying of course, but that's what he promised, and that's where the polling is. People with Obamacare mostly like it. The criticisms coming from real people, instead of Ryan/Koch death cult acolytes, are either that they can't get it, or that premiums are still too high.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:39 PM on September 12, 2017 [24 favorites]


Edith Windsor, Hero Of The Marriage Equality Movement, Dies At 88 (Sarah Karlan, BuzzFeed News)
Windsor spent her later years fighting for the marriage between her and her late wife to be recognized, becoming a hero following the landmark civil rights case of United States v. Windsor.

.
posted by Room 641-A at 1:41 PM on September 12, 2017 [26 favorites]


(5) It's finally dawned on a huge chunk of real, actual baby boomers—the votingest motherfuckers out there—that they could really, actually die or live miserably with untreated medical issues if they have to pay for coverage out-of-pocket (or even at market rates). "Socialism" doesn't seem so LOLCOMMIES any more to many of them.
posted by Rykey at 1:43 PM on September 12, 2017 [23 favorites]


Attempting to analyze Trump's policy positions as "from the left" or "from the right" is like trying to weigh a color. The concepts simply do not apply.
posted by 0xFCAF at 1:51 PM on September 12, 2017 [64 favorites]


I mean this is a man who told the NYT that you can get insurance for 12.00/yr. He has not the fuckingest clue how insurance works. He doesn't have a plan other than there has to be something other than Obamacare because Barack Obama enrages him. The plan is The Obamacare name goes away and b. He gets good press coverage for it. He could not care in the least if people lose/gain coverage and how much it costs because it doesn't affect him personally.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 1:53 PM on September 12, 2017 [13 favorites]


How does nationalizing a fifth of our economy affect economic growth? What about the pharmaceutical industry? Will their profits fall?

OUAT, I'm not calling out your noting that there are devilish details to be worked out, but in the public discussion of complex issues I've seen red herrings become popular arguments against sensible policies, and I feel like these particular details are red herrings that distract from rather than add to the necessary conversation. No one of consequence in the US has proposed nationalization of healthcare, which has its clear downsides and, in any event, would not be palatable. The discussion has centered around who pays the bills. In fairness to you, yes, the payor certainly has control, especially if it is a monopoly. But as we saw with Medicare, funding healthcare does not shrink it, but rather encourages development. Pharma/medical tech sectors have been subsidized by Medicare by guaranteeing a large customer base. I worked for a large medical device firm whose astronomic growth was directly fueled by Medicare coverage.

That said, I agree completely that legislative alternatives should be actively drafted and discussed now so that following the wave election in 2018, we need to get those bills on the decaying pumpkin's desk STAT.
posted by Mental Wimp at 1:53 PM on September 12, 2017 [12 favorites]


Optimism is a good thing but 60 votes in the Senate in 2018 seems... overly ambitious perhaps. I can't imagine a true single payer bill could be done through reconciliation.
posted by Justinian at 1:56 PM on September 12, 2017 [3 favorites]


Well, I agree he didn't actually have a plan, just his default to the his six-word vocabulary of superlatives he throws out on every policy he knows nothing about (which is all of the policies), but he definitely at least endorsed the goal of broader coverage, and that's a huge movement from Republican rhetoric prior. Just acknowledging that all people should be covered upsets the whole Republican game of "get sick, die quickly". Plus his insistence on not cutting Medicare/Caid/Social Security, also lies of course, I do think he rhetoric was more from the left, and probably a factor in the current wave of emboldening Democrats to endorse universal coverage as a goal again.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:58 PM on September 12, 2017 [2 favorites]


Right, as Mental Wimp says, the decrease in per person payments to healthcare providers will be balanced out by HOW MANY MORE PEOPLE CAN AFFORD TREATMENT. I mean, especially in impoverished areas where the only time people interact with the healthcare system is when they are literally dying but suddenly they can get preventative care and treatment for all their minor chronic illnesses.
posted by threeturtles at 1:59 PM on September 12, 2017 [4 favorites]


What the hell happened? It's like I don't understand anything anymore. Single Payer was like socialism/poison only a year ago, and now we're seeing the beginnings of a groundswell in support of it?

Democratic politicians have been wary of universal health care ever since they got their hats handed to them after passing Obamacare in 2010. The public really didn't like it at first.

It took until this year, and the Republican threat of taking away Obamacare for Democratic politicians, and even Democratic voters, to realize the belief that everyone deserves health care as a universal right. This belief was not clear at all until very recently.

It's much like the way opposition to same sex marriage came tumbling down all at once.
posted by JackFlash at 2:00 PM on September 12, 2017 [31 favorites]


I can't imagine a true single payer bill could be done through reconciliation.

If they somehow retake the Senate, nuke the filibuster, admit DC and PR on a party line vote, and pass single payer and national universal voter registration. We have to think like Republicans and play the same game.
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:01 PM on September 12, 2017 [7 favorites]


but he definitely at least endorsed the goal of broader coverage, and that's a huge movement from Republican rhetoric prior

Oh I know what you're saying. What I'm saying is that he is endorsing that goal because he is saying words that get him good press attention, not because it's any good faith effort to actually fix healthcare.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 2:01 PM on September 12, 2017 [2 favorites]


If they somehow retake the Senate, nuke the filibuster

Never gonna happen. Senators like their power too much (in both parties).
posted by Justinian at 2:04 PM on September 12, 2017 [1 favorite]


Also he gives zero fucks about throwing other republican leadership under busses. This is just another season of The Apprentice to him.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 2:05 PM on September 12, 2017 [2 favorites]


What I'm saying is that he is endorsing that goal because he is saying words that get him good press attention, not because it's any good faith effort to actually fix healthcare.
I am 100% certain that we are all clear on that. But the fact remains that he didn't run on Paul-Ryan-style free-market death-care. He ran on fixing your healthcare by Making America Great Again through white supremacist patriarchy, which is all kinds of stupid and fucked up. But even the people who voted for him don't want their kids to die because they can't afford insulin or antibiotics.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 2:05 PM on September 12, 2017 [4 favorites]


He ran on "I'm going to lie and say whatever it takes to get to this cool leadership position."
posted by Melismata at 2:07 PM on September 12, 2017 [10 favorites]


Oh totes, I wasn't arguing, I just wasn't sure if I was articulating my point well so I gave it a few attempts.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 2:07 PM on September 12, 2017 [2 favorites]


This is anecdotal, but I live in the Trumpiest of Trump land (Louie Gohmert is my rep). I was recently at a “Let’s All Learn About The Medical Community” workshop, sponsored by the local chamber of commerce. The CEO of one of our local hospitals came right out and said he expected single-payer to happen eventually. All the good-ol’-boy business leaders in the room nodded knowingly. I don’t know if they’re just resigned to it or if they secretly like the idea, but nobody protested, argued or even so much as sighed in disapproval.
posted by mcdoublewide at 2:08 PM on September 12, 2017 [39 favorites]


For sure, but I think this is a case where his pathological narcissism hurt the Republican policy goals of seeing as many people die poor in the street as possible. He was lying and saying whatever was popular and would get him good coverage...but in the process he accidentally changed the debate and proved Democratic policy is popular, and Republican policy is cruel and extremely unpopular. When he doesn't deliver on any of that, well, there's a slew of Democratic candidates with a plan to do exactly what Trump promised and failed to do.
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:11 PM on September 12, 2017 [5 favorites]


Rep. Conyers' bill is a bit more than just literally Medicare for All, covering "all medically necessary services" (even dental!), but there are still a lot of details that are handwaved over. Some of the other bills have been just literally "strike the age requirement for Medicare"; that's not a serious thought-out proposal on its own.

Still, "I support single payer," while a good thing, has pretty much just become a fancy way to say "I'm a Democrat who wants the health care system to be better. Please stop harassing me now." It's pretty easy to support a vague concept that is generically assumed to be better when there are zero costs attached yet. We already played this game in California, where the left and the nurses union got the legislature all riled up about a state single payer system, yay, getting the State Senate to pass what wasmore of a dream than a real plan, until leadership in the Assembly had to slam on the brakes because the policy wasn't anywhere close to ready. And now everyone is pissed at each other because the advocacy got ahead of the policy. California can survive that, but seeing that happen at the federal level would be disastrous for Democrats.

The policy has to be ready. And as Justinian notes, people are deluding themselves if they think the votes will be there for any of this anytime soon. Everyone wants to be hopeful about the future, but the place we're in today is just one fickle vote away from repealing the ACA and an administration that's trying to sabotage it at every turn. Manchin saying the magic words "single payer" doesn't change that.

Joshua Holland's article in The Nation is a good look at some of the details that need to be worked out to sincerely push forward with single payer. Another key one is abortion. As long as the Hyde Amendment is law, single payer can easily mean "nobody in the country has coverage for abortion." Even if there's some kind of compromise to allow that to be decided state-by-state, it would still mean millions of women who have abortion coverage through private insurance now would lose it. Unless you acknowledge this situation as people celebrate a parade of "Sen. X supports single payer" announcements, you're completely ignoring a massive reproductive rights issue.

All of which is to say that there are a lot of real issues that need to be engaged with in order to have a serious conversation about single payer, and the parade of Democrats lining up to support it is swell, but it doesn't stand in for the real conversations we have to have about what kind of a system we want and the trade-offs involved in building it.
posted by zachlipton at 2:15 PM on September 12, 2017 [30 favorites]


Trump To Meet Malaysia's Leader As Probe Against Him Deepens (NPR, Sept. 12, 2017)
President Trump welcomes Malaysia's prime minister, Najib Razak, to the White House today. Regional instability will be high on the list of topics for discussion. But it is Najib's problem with the U.S. Justice Department that's drawing interest - an investigation involving billions of dollars allegedly looted from a Malaysian government fund. Najib has denied any wrongdoing. From Kuala Lumpur, Michael Sullivan reports.

MICHAEL SULLIVAN, BYLINE: Where to begin...

CYNTHIA GABRIEL: This is mind-blowing.

SULLIVAN: Cynthia Gabriel heads the Center to Combat Corruption and Cronyism in Kuala Lumpur.

GABRIEL: Why would a kleptocrat - termed by the U.S. Department of Justice alone - be invited by the president?

SULLIVAN: She's talking about the so-called 1MDB investment fund scandal involving members of Najib's family and their associates - more than $3.5 billion that went missing, much of it allegedly laundered through the United States.

LORETTA LYNCH: The Department of Justice has filed a civil complaint seeking to forfeit and recover more than $1 billion in assets associated with an international conspiracy to launder funds stolen from 1Malaysia Development Berhad, or 1MDB.
It's clear what Razak is looking to gain, as outlined in this piece: recognition as a legitimate international player. But what is Trump's game? Another distraction, more sand in the face of the media who might be trying to report on any number of other moving targets? Or tips on where else to launder money?

More context: 1MDB: The inside story of the world’s biggest financial scandal (Randeep Ramesh for The Guardian, published on July 28, 2016) -- How a jailed former banker and a lone British journalist broke a story that shook the world
posted by filthy light thief at 2:17 PM on September 12, 2017 [8 favorites]


See also: Malaysians worry Trump will drop a corruption investigation into his “favorite prime minister” (Joon Ian Wong for Qz, Dec. 1, 2016)
Malaysia’s prime minister Najib Razak may have hundreds of thousands of his countrymen calling for his resignation—embroiled as he is in a multi-billion-dollar corruption case—but he has one thing to be grateful for: His onetime golfing partner is the next president of the United States, whose justice department happens to be pursuing that very same corruption case.

Najib has been talking up his close ties to Trump to the media. He recounted a victorious golf game played years ago at the Trump National Golf Club in Bedminster, New Jersey to the Star, a Malaysian daily. Najib had been in town for the United Nations General Assembly, and wanted to enjoy some R&R with his Malaysian delegation. Trump, hearing about the group, appeared and joined the game. So Najib and Trump partnered up.

At the game’s conclusion, Trump posed for a photo with Najib and the late Malaysian ambassador to the US, Jamaluddin Jarjis, and autographed it. It was inscribed: “To my favorite Prime Minister. Great win!” according to Najib. The Malaysian PM said he keeps the photo on his desk. “I did it before [Trump] became as famous as he is today,” Najib told the Star.
posted by filthy light thief at 2:19 PM on September 12, 2017 [4 favorites]


There are a million and one details to be sorted out here. Who will lose their jobs? What will hospital re-imbursement rates be? Will this affect the doctor and hospital shortages in rural areas? How will doctors repay their loans? How does nationalizing a fifth of our economy affect economic growth? ... etc ... etc.

The simplest answer is that every other developed country on the planet has managed to do it just fine.

These two thoughts are fundamentally incompatible:
1. The U.S. has the most wasteful, expensive health system in the world, by more than a factor of two. It can't go on.
2. We should fix this without upsetting anyone, anywhere.
posted by JackFlash at 2:24 PM on September 12, 2017 [32 favorites]


We shouldn't overlook that Trump actually ran against the ACA from the left.

This is as nonsensical as saying that Trump ran to the left of Clinton on coal mining jobs. Both were empty promises.
posted by JackFlash at 2:29 PM on September 12, 2017 [2 favorites]


But the point is "every other developed country on the planet has managed to do it just fine" isn't a policy proposal. Who determines which treatments are covered? How is that determination made? Is there an appeals process on the individual level? Who hears the appeal? What are the rules governing timing and such? Is there a fee? Is the fee waived for the poorest Americans? Can the appeal be retroactive?

And so on. That's the tiniest, tiniest sliver of one tiny piece of the pie but all those questions need to be answered, as well as half a billion others.
posted by Justinian at 2:29 PM on September 12, 2017 [4 favorites]


Who determines which treatments are covered?

We already have Medicare for seniors. People like it just fine. In fact they love it.
posted by JackFlash at 2:33 PM on September 12, 2017 [4 favorites]


Well, they don't love the parts that aren't covered, like my mother's hearing aid.
posted by Melismata at 2:34 PM on September 12, 2017 [8 favorites]


> All of which is to say that there are a lot of real issues that need to be engaged with in order to have a serious conversation about single payer, and the parade of Democrats lining up to support it is swell, but it doesn't stand in for the real conversations we have to have about what kind of a system we want and the trade-offs involved in building it.

I see this as a chicken/egg problem. We do need to have that discussion, but it's hard for any parties in that discussion to take it seriously if it's clear there is no political will to consider single-payer. Having those words in the same article as Joe Manchin's name and without phrases like "pulled out his Sigsauer pistol and shot several holes in a printed copy of..." is a sign that the public mood is such that the discussion that needs to happen can happen.

It of course can't happen in a form that would result in acceptance by the GOP and POTUS45, but at least the Democratic caucus could begin war-gaming things for their 2018 election pitches, so that red-state Democratic voters who are hungry for something more than GOP-lite could hear the words that would get them to turn out to vote and volunteer for campaigns. And maybe that creates a Democratic House, which means suddenly House committees can begin having these discussions in very public forums with detailed reports and expert witnesses. We don't get our fully automated luxury single player plan through in 2018, but the wheels are greased for it when the political conditions are such that it's feasible to get actual legislation through.

Now through 2018 is just going to be an exercise in keeping the shit to shoe level, and hopefully impeaching the orange menace. But we can take steps to make what happens when the blue team takes over easier, and that's why I think this Manchin news (and earlier noises about single-payer from others) are more than just window dressing.
posted by tonycpsu at 2:35 PM on September 12, 2017 [10 favorites]


Yeah I just made those questions up in 2 seconds, im sure some of them are stupid. The main point is that there are a billion questions that need to be answered, and they need to be answered before the Democrats get back into power and look like complete tools Republicans.
posted by Justinian at 2:35 PM on September 12, 2017 [1 favorite]


But the point is "every other developed country on the planet has managed to do it just fine" isn't a policy proposal.

This.

Also... The NHS was founded in 1948. People began using penicillin to treat infections in 1942, which is also the first year people began experimenting with chemotherapy as a cancer treatment. Newborn screening and treatment for the condition my kids have? Did not begin until the 1960s.

Before those treatments (and thousands of others) existed, and before Baumol's cost disease drove healthcare into this fifth-of-the-economy position, it was a lot easier to make changes without upsetting people.

Now, people who are "invested" in health care includes not only literal investors in and employees of health care related businesses, but people like me who currently DO have good coverage and risk ending up worse off (to the tune of having my kids suffer from neurological issues they are currently safe from) if that system is radically changed. People had a lot less to lose in 1948.
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:36 PM on September 12, 2017 [6 favorites]


The idea of an on-ramp is appealing on a lot of levels. It's what I thought "Medicare for All" permitted fairly readily. It's already a widely used, generally liked system that can be expanded incrementally to ultimately include everyone.

For example, as an increment: in two years, Medicare for Seniors will be expanded to include everyone 55 and older, and all cancers will be included in a carve-out so that it applies regardless of age.

Then, every year, the eligibility age reduces and additional medical carve-outs are provided. So that after ten years, Medicare covers everyone for all ailments.

That seems fairly straightforward in implementing, I think, using and adapting existing structures to get where we want to be.
posted by darkstar at 2:39 PM on September 12, 2017 [13 favorites]


For example, as an increment: in two years, Medicare for Seniors will be expanded to include everyone 55 and older, and all cancers will be included in a carve-out so that it applies regardless of age.

Then, every year, the age eligibility reduces and additional medical carve-outs are provided. So that after ten years, Medicare covers everyone for all ailments.


If this were real and not a unicorn fantasy, I would retire early. One of the big reasons I'm not flaking out of corporate life to go work retail is healthcare costs.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 2:43 PM on September 12, 2017 [6 favorites]


It's not like we're alone in the woods with nobody to talk to. Advice is available all around us.

*waves from Canada, picks up bullhorn*

TRY IT YOU'LL LIKE IT - at the very least it can't be as bad as your current situation even if it's not perfect by a long shot, because we've been watching for years and I MEAN WTF COME ON GUYS.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 2:49 PM on September 12, 2017 [31 favorites]


The simplest answer is that every other developed country on the planet has managed to do it just fine.

Well, they have universal health care, not single payer. Many many developed countries have non-single-payer universal coverage (the top 2 I know of are Germany and Japan, but there are others).

The point being there are a LOT of ways to go about universal coverage, and lots of different examples of how to do it. Personally I think single payer is a bad idea and the health outcomes in countries with universal-not-single are better, but I'd rather have single payer than what we have now so whatever has more political momentum is fine with me.
posted by thefoxgod at 2:50 PM on September 12, 2017 [2 favorites]


VIRGINIA HOUSE ELECTIONS - HD 21 to 25

intro
1-5
6-10
11-15
16-20

===

21st District
Currently GOP seat
R cand: Ronald Villanueva (incumbent)
D cand: Kelly Convirs-Fowler

Virginia Beach/Norfolk burb, 57.1% white. Incumbent first elected in 2009. R won 54-45 in 2013 and 57-43 in 2015. Clinton won district 49-45. Flippable Potential district.

===

22nd District
Currently GOP seat
R cand: Kathy Byron (incumbent)
D cand: none

Mostly rural western district, 74.6% white. Incumbent first elected in 1997. R won 66-34 in 2013, no D candidate in 2015. Trump won district 63-32.

===

23rd District
Currently GOP seat
R cand: Scott Garrett (incumbent)
D cand: Natalie Short

Mosly rural western district, gerrymanders Lynchburg, 78.3% white. Incumbent first elected in 2009; no D candidate in 2013 or 2015. Trump won district 61-32.

===

24th District
Currently GOP seat
R cand: Ben Cline (incumbent)
D cand: none

Mostly rural central district on WV border, 88.7% white. Incumbent first elected in 2002 special. No D candidate in 2013, R won 71-29 in 2015. Trump won district 64-31. There is an independent candidate.

===

25th District
Currently GOP seat
R cand: Steve Landes (incumbent)
D cand: Angela Lynn

Mostly rural central district, gerrymanders around Staunton and Charlottesville, 92.2% white. Incumbent first elected in 1995. No D candidate in 2013, R won 66-34 in 2015. Trump won district 57-37.

===

Next time: 26-30.
posted by Chrysostom at 2:54 PM on September 12, 2017 [20 favorites]


So that after ten years, Medicare covers everyone for all ailments.

Ok cool. But who defines "all ailments"? Because that's not a clear cut thing. Does it cover abortion? Does it cover trans healthcare? Does it cover fertility issues? How about mental healthcare?

And then what about possession by spirits? Ridiculous, I think, but other people think that is a genuine ailment that should be covered by healthcare.

And how do you protect this coverage for the next time the GOP gains control over the government?

My point is that these are not obvious or easy answers. You can't just waive the "healthcare for all!" wand and make it so.
posted by mcduff at 2:55 PM on September 12, 2017 [7 favorites]


(But let me add, I am ALL FOR making healthcare free for everyone. I just don't think it is as simple of a matter as many people seem to think it is.)
posted by mcduff at 2:57 PM on September 12, 2017


Personally I think single payer is a bad idea and the health outcomes in countries with universal-not-single are better.

Canadians might beg to differ.

Keep in mind that the countries that have universal private insurance are really more like single payer. The government sets prices and fee rates and benefits. The private insurance companies are really more or less just bill handling services.
posted by JackFlash at 2:58 PM on September 12, 2017 [6 favorites]


(But let me add, I am ALL FOR making healthcare free for everyone. I just don't think it is as simple of a matter as many people seem to think it is.)

!) Find out how much companies who provide decent benefits are paying for insurance
2) Figure out the equivalent tax rate and apply to every company
3) Give everyone an insurance card that works the same as Medicare
4) Fill in the gaps in coverage over time
posted by Talez at 3:01 PM on September 12, 2017 [3 favorites]


>Personally I think single payer is a bad idea and the health outcomes in countries with universal-not-single are better.

Canadians might beg to differ.


Again, we need to clarify what single-payer means. Is Canada single-payer? At minimum I would think each province would count as a separate payer. And then on top of that private insurance exists. When people say they want single-payer, would Canada's system (administrated by each state -- and good luck if you live in Alabama?) be acceptable or not? It's not clear to me.

(Making it all about me again for a sec -- as far as I know only three provinces in Canada cover the medication my kids take, which has been life changing for them. So the chances that they lose access to that medication if we implement the Canadian system somehow would seem to be at least 70% ...)
posted by OnceUponATime at 3:06 PM on September 12, 2017 [1 favorite]


My point is that these are not obvious or easy answers. You can't just waive the "healthcare for all!" wand and make it so.

Very true. One of the things that happens under Canada's system is that sometimes procedures/treatments are delisted from coverage, and there has to be a fight over that, or a new treatment or extremely expensive treatment for a very rare illness requires someone to plead a public case - going to the media and elected officials to say "Hey - I'll die if I don't get this rare/expensive treatment but OHIP (Ontario's single-payer insurer) won't cover it."

So yeah, to your point, it doesn't magically happen in all cases and sometimes people have to seek recourse.

For those of you looking forward to having healthcare debates over the Thanksgiving dinner table (even though your Thanksgiving timing is weird) and the subject of "Canada's health care system is socialist hellscape - discuss," comes up, please enjoy this paper on the topic as something you can add to the cheat sheet you'll need after that third glass of wine:

In our survey of health insurance legislation and regulations, we found that regulation of physicians' ability to practise in the privately funded sector is complex and diverse across Canada's 10 provinces. We found multiple layers of different kinds of regulation that seem to have as their primary objective not to make private practice illegal but rather to prevent the development of a private sector that depends on subsidy from the public sector.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 3:07 PM on September 12, 2017 [12 favorites]


On a lighter note, @SexuallPosts tweets, "Didn't want to leave you hanging @tedcruz. Here's Part 2 for you 😉. " With #TedsRightHandMan
posted by Justinian at 3:11 PM on September 12, 2017 [17 favorites]


Again, we need to clarify what single-payer means. Is Canada single-payer?

Yeah, these terms are vague and there needs to be agreement. Are we single-payer? I think kind of; for most health problems, I see my doctor, and my doctor is reimbursed by the provincial government. But for some services - prescriptions; eyecare; dental care; and some procedures/services that the province has decided it doesn't cover, I'm out of pocket or on insurance. Is that single-payer or not? "Universal" is another term that needs to be clarified - "universal" in Canada means everyone (citizens, primarily) is covered for primary health care needs, not that every possible service/treatment under the sun is covered which is what some people I've encountered have thought. And even then, there can be some odd little glitches that catch people - for example, eligibility for home care services & long-term care is something that comes only after three months of residency in the province where I live; this is a fact that trips up a lot of families who think it's a good idea to have aging parent with a health condition come live with them only to discover they have to figure out how to bridge that 3 month gap.

But this is the work that should get started now by the serious D candidates - do the research, talk with other jurisdictions (Canada, the UK, France, Australia, etc) and see how we are the same and where we differ. The US might be a late comer to the idea, but that means you get to learn from all our mistakes and successes and see what will work in your context.
posted by nubs at 3:18 PM on September 12, 2017 [6 favorites]


I've got a little knot in my stomach wondering what the oppoWapodroppo might be this week. As we get closer and closer to the first legal shoe dropping I'm getting a bad mix of adrenaline and dread.
posted by Room 641-A at 3:30 PM on September 12, 2017 [5 favorites]


And it should be also noted that the Canadian system predictably shits the bed when it comes to First Nations.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 3:34 PM on September 12, 2017 [8 favorites]


As we get closer and closer to the first legal shoe dropping

As someone who's more-or-less tuned out the whole Russia investigation thing of late, does this refer to some specific upcoming event, or are you just speaking generally?
posted by Atom Eyes at 3:35 PM on September 12, 2017


Recent round-ups of Mueller's investigation from Newsweek ("Mueller Is ‘Going For the Kill’ On Trump-Russia Investigation, Republicans Believe") and Axios ("Mueller Haunts the West Wing") make it seem as though a lot leaks/rumors are piling up.

Then again, the Daily Beast's scoop o' the day, "The Trump Campaign Has Begun Turning Over Documents to Mueller", cautions that "the probe continues to gain steam but a conclusion doesn’t appear that near".
posted by Doktor Zed at 3:46 PM on September 12, 2017 [4 favorites]


Canadians might beg to differ.

Sure, but Japan has even better outcome-per-dollar (and also better outcomes period) [One of the lowest per-patient spending with both high usage and excellent outcomes] than Canada without single-payer. Of course, healthcare is difficult to compare directly across countries due to variables outside the healthcare system itself.

That said, it's one thing to design what I think is the optimal system and another thing to get _anything_ thats better than what we have now. I think Medicare-for-all has flaws, but its one huge upside is the simplicity of the idea (not necessarily the implementation). Most people know Medicare, they don't know the details of various flavors of universal coverage as implemented in other countries.
posted by thefoxgod at 3:50 PM on September 12, 2017 [6 favorites]


I have to agree with that. It is simply politically impossible for the U.S. to design a brand new healthcare system from scratch. That's means that whatever new system we get will have to be built on top of the existing system. Medicare expansion, while imperfect, is still an improvement and I'll take anything we can get that moves in the right direction.
posted by JackFlash at 4:03 PM on September 12, 2017 [9 favorites]


Mod note: Huckabee-Sanders responds that it's sad that Clinton is reduced to 'propping up book sales.'

Girl's made about about $37 million from book sales. I think she'll be fine.
Hillary Clinton got an $8 million advance for her autobiography Living History (2000); it sold more than a million copies in the first month and by 2007 she’d earned over $10 million in royalties. She got an estimated $14 million advance for her memoir Hard Choices (2014); by mid-2015 she’d earned more than $5 million. (She didn’t take an advance for It Takes a Village and donated most of the royalties to charity.) So she’s earned about $37 million from books.
self-link
posted by kirkaracha (staff) at 4:10 PM on September 12, 2017 [13 favorites]


Huckabee-Sanders responds that it's sad that Clinton is reduced to 'propping up book sales.'

It's funny how nobody made that observation when Mitt Romney went on tour for his book after he lost in '12.
posted by scalefree at 4:20 PM on September 12, 2017 [25 favorites]


I'm just back for voting for school board, and it has inspired a question. Does anyone know if anyone has researched whether Christian voters are influenced by whether they vote at a church? I sort of wonder if people who vote in their religion's place of worship are more likely to vote in the way that they associate with religious authority. (I also wonder if there are ever polling places at mosques or synagogues, which I'm thinking would not be seen as neutral around here in the way that a church is seen as neutral. And it doesn't feel neutral to me. There's a sign as you leave the parking lot of this church that says "Now Entering the Mission Field," which is kind of a reminder of where I stand in their worldview. Honestly, I'd rather vote in a place where people don't see me as an object of missionary outreach.)
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 4:24 PM on September 12, 2017 [18 favorites]


Ok cool. But who defines "all ailments"? Because that's not a clear cut thing. Does it cover abortion? Does it cover trans healthcare? Does it cover fertility issues? How about mental healthcare?
And then what about possession by spirits? Ridiculous, I think, but other people think that is a genuine ailment that should be covered by healthcare.
And how do you protect this coverage for the next time the GOP gains control over the government?
My point is that these are not obvious or easy answers. You can't just waive the "healthcare for all!" wand and make it so.



These seem, a little bit, to be arguments for argument's sake. No one is suggesting there aren't complex issues to resolve. But the complexity of addressing abortion or demon possession* is true for any health care system, including the one we have currently. It does not create additional issues that have to be faced beyond the fundamental question of what kind of health issue they pose, and how best to address them. So they shouldn't be impediments to considering a health care overhaul.

As for how to protect a system against the GOP in the future, the only thing that can do that is a Constitutional amendment. The GOP could, at any point, scrap even Medicare if they could muster the votes. So making a health care system bulletproof against legislative action in the future is not really a realistic goal, nor should it be considered an impediment to innovation. The best thing a health care system has to resist such undermining is to be appreciated by a vast majority of its users, which is why Medicare has resisted GOP attempts to destroy it in the past.

---

*Probably not a strong example of a serious question that has to be addressed in the implementation of any proposed single payer system. If someone seriously thinks they are being demon possessed, then the medical profession already has guidelines about how to handle that. Namely, if someone presents with this symptom, it's treated as a mental illness. And mental illnesses can definitely be an area of carve-out in one of the years of on-ramping Medicare for All.
posted by darkstar at 4:27 PM on September 12, 2017 [3 favorites]


"The CEO of one of our local hospitals came right out and said he expected single-payer to happen eventually. All the good-ol’-boy business leaders in the room nodded knowingly."

There are two kinds of business owners: millionaires, and billionaires. The millionaires are the "good-ol'-boy business leaders" referred to above, and quite frankly they have enough to deal with without having to pay for and maintain health insurance to attract and keep their employees. Not to mention needing to verify that Debbie in accounting got her mammogram this year. The millionaires would be just fine with single-payer.

The billionaires (the Koch brothers and other oligarchs), though, know that if the working class doesn't have to worry about losing health insurance/care, that the billionaires will have less of a hold on the workers, and that (quelle horreur!) some workers may be able to retire before they reach their deathbed, thereby shrinking the labor pool and boosting wages for those who want or need to remain.
posted by Kibbutz at 4:29 PM on September 12, 2017 [28 favorites]


The Supreme Court stayed part of the Ninth Circuit's order, allowing the Trump Administration to block refugees who have assurances of support from refugee resettlement agencies. They will hear the case on the travel ban executive order in general on October 10th.

Rep. Coffman (R-CO) has put his efforts to circulate a discharge petition to protect DREAMers on hold, because six months seems like a long time and they've got lots of other stuff to do now, so why bother? The Senate Judiciary Committee cancelled a hearing on the subject, while House Judiciary won't touch it until they first address "criminal alien gangs and border security." So basically, shocker, Republicans are going to do fuck all about DACA. Democrats will continue to circulate the discharge petition, but don't hold your breath. But there's some really top-notch negotiating going on at the White House:
In a meeting at the White House last week, Mr. Trump pressed Senator Chuck Schumer of New York, the Democratic leader, for 15 minutes about paring funding for a border wall with protections for Dreamers, according to a person familiar with the meeting, who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not cleared to discuss internal deliberations. Both Mr. Schumer and Representative Nancy Pelosi of California, the House Democratic leader, rejected the deal.

On Tuesday, Marc Short, the White House legislative affairs director, told reporters that Mr. Trump was unlikely to stand by his wall-funding demand, though he said the administration is still “interested in getting border security.”

“I don’t want us to bind ourselves into a construct that makes reaching a conclusion on DACA impossible,” Mr. Short said.
Is this how The Art of the Deal works?
Trump: How about funding for the wall in exchange for a DACA deal?
Schumer/Pelosi: No thanks
WH legislative affairs: Don't worry. We'll cave on that demand too.

It looks like the new White House tactic is to blame James Comey for everything. Sanders today suggested that the Justice Department look into prosecuting Comey [video]. Former federal prosecutor Renato Mariotti‏ notes that "It is totally inappropriate for the White House to call on the DOJ to consider prosecuting a witness against the President." This comes as the House looks to use the Steele Dossier to attack Comey (on the basis that the FBI was taking it seriously, so if they can discredit the dossier, they can discredit Comey).

Lin-Manuel Miranda is hanging out in Washington to accept some awards and lobby for arts funding. Here he is hanging out with Sen. Leahy and (a statue of) A. Ham.

And Laura Rozen brings us the terrifying word that the same think tank set that brought us the Iraq War are working on North Korea:
A think tank contact working on national security issues tells me: Major DC conservative think tanks that are linked into the Trump team 1/
are quietly preparing studies on the aftermath of war with North Korea...A couple of the shops with big teams of analysts. 2/
There's a lot of interest in studies on how to defeat insurgencies led by former regime types armed with chemical and biological agents. 3/
Dusting off the books from pre-Iraq War days on how to counter those types of insurgencies. 4/
Analysts w/ experience dealing w/counter insurgency in Iraq are being reassigned from GWOT type work to North Korea Contingency Planning 5/5
not sure contingency planning signals intent. but contingency thinking.
posted by zachlipton at 4:32 PM on September 12, 2017 [17 favorites]


It's really hard to imagine how Republicans are going to debate on healthcare in future elections after their abject failure to even come up with a coherent policy plan, much less pass anything, despite having control over the legislature and the executive. Maybe that's why Democrats up to and including Manchin are willing to voice support for universal care; Republicans have no counter-proposals left and everyone knows it.
posted by contraption at 4:34 PM on September 12, 2017 [3 favorites]


As someone who's more-or-less tuned out the whole Russia investigation thing of late, does this refer to some specific upcoming event, or are you just speaking generally

Just generally speaking. A combination of oppo interuptus from Irma and 'be careful what you wish for.'
posted by Room 641-A at 4:34 PM on September 12, 2017


Also, the bipartisan joint resolution condemning white supremacists in Charlottesville has passed both chambers and is headed to Trump's desk (the House passed it on a voice vote so as to avoid forcing members to take a position on it). You can read a copy of the resolution. They structured it as a joint resolution, instead of the ordinary resolutions Congress passes all the time, so Trump would be forced to sign or veto it.

Gizmodo's Dell Cameron reports (yes, really) that The Heritage Foundation lobbied Jeff Sessions back in February to make sure there were no Democrats, "mainstream Republican officials and/or academics" on the voter fraud commission, because nobody to the left of Kobach will push for suitable voting restrictions. This story has gotten increasing chaotic as Heritage says Hans von Spakovsky is responsible for writing the letter, while ProPublica's Jessica Huseman has him on tape denying it.

Speaking of voter fraud, Reuters found actual voter fraud, in Russia, in which reporters watch a regional election where things seem totally on the up-and-up:
When the official results for polling station no. 333 were declared, the turnout was first given as 1,331 before being revised up to 1,867 on Tuesday. That is more than seven times higher than the number of voters counted by Reuters - with 73 percent of the votes going to United Russia, the party of President Vladimir Putin.

Election officials at the polling station said their tally was correct and there were no discrepancies.

Reuters reporters were there when the polls opened at 08:00 until after the official count had been completed. They saw one man, who said he was a United Russia election observer, approaching the ballot box multiple times and each time putting inside voting papers.

“We must ensure 85 percent for United Russia. Otherwise, the Tsar will stop providing us with money,” the man, Sergei Lyutikov, told a reporter, in an apparent reference to Putin.
...
Over the course of two hours, during which the reporter was with the officials at all times, they collected 14 filled ballot papers. When the officials returned to the polling station, they had 18 filled ballot papers.

The officials who made the trip said the tally was correct. The head of the election commission at polling station no. 618, Lyubov Grushko, said: “The difference in numbers is a provocative issue, we won’t discuss it.”
Finally, Hope Hicks will formally serve as Communications Director as Fox News's Mercedes Schlapp joins the press office, as rumored.
posted by zachlipton at 4:51 PM on September 12, 2017 [25 favorites]


It's really hard to imagine how Republicans are going to debate on healthcare in future elections after their abject failure to even come up with a coherent policy plan, much less pass anything, despite having control over the legislature and the executive.

Hard to imagine? Did you miss the debate in 2010 over Obamacare? Republicans don't need any policies. They just have to shout out scary stuff like "Death Panels!" when Democrats propose any sort of universal coverage improvements.
posted by JackFlash at 4:51 PM on September 12, 2017 [4 favorites]


Hard to imagine? Did you miss the debate in 2010 over Obamacare? Republicans don't need any policies.

I guess what I should say is that I'm starting to have some confidence that people will see through the shouting, given that the ACA has generally worked out well and they have just been standing around with their pants down for 6 months.
posted by contraption at 4:56 PM on September 12, 2017 [2 favorites]


Give it a rest, people. There is no pee tape.

I beg your pardon?
posted by pee tape at 5:07 PM on September 12, 2017 [73 favorites]


I'm hopeful chants of "Medicare for all!" are able to drown out the cries of "Death Panels!", but if that's what political discourse has been reduced to, I'm not as sure as I once was with our Grand Experiment.
posted by fragmede at 5:09 PM on September 12, 2017 [1 favorite]


I don't know that people will see through the shouting next time. They were aware that "eh, throw it out; we'll come up with something better soon" was not an acceptable plan, but the flaws in the ACA are getting bigger. The people feeling the crunch - middle-class people who believe they don't need insurance, and people who have chronic conditions for which the costs keep rising - will start clamoring for either (1) real fixes, which Republicans aren't likely to allow, or (2) drastic changes, because they believe "different" can't be worse.

There are hundreds of ways to provide real fixes: fix the patent laws so drug companies can't keep tweaking their recipes and holding on to their monopolies; provide basic, no-frills (and no serious chronic conditions) gov't-paid health care for everyone to focus on prevention before problems arise; require that hospitals charge the same amount for the same service, regardless of the medical condition or source of payment; require costs to be provided on request before any service is rendered; change the tax codes to discourage profiteering; etc.

Fulll single-payer gov't health care would be best, but too many rich white people think that "encourages laziness." But even without that, there are plenty of ways that health care costs could be reduced - but medicine as a for-profit industry has no reason to consider any of them.

And I suspect that a group of Republicans who grabbed any one plan to fix one of the real problems and pushed it as "the Solution to Obamacare" would get a whole lot of support. They failed last time because they absolutely could not say, "this will lower your payment rates" to any demographic for whom payment rates are actually relevant.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 5:26 PM on September 12, 2017 [5 favorites]


And I suspect that a group of Republicans who grabbed any one plan to fix one of the real problems and pushed it as "the Solution to Obamacare" would get a whole lot of support.

This is undoubtably true -- but then they would own that plan, and if you think you don't like the ACA, wait till you feel the pinch of the alternative. For seven years the Republicans have had the comfortable position of being able to blame Obama for everything. The last thing they want is to be the owners of a healthcare plan that is even worse, because (obviously) more stingy and cruel.
posted by Bringer Tom at 5:29 PM on September 12, 2017 [3 favorites]


Too bad for them now they own Obamacare too, since they have unified control of congress. So they better hope they can make it work.
posted by Justinian at 5:35 PM on September 12, 2017 [1 favorite]


Too bad for them now they own Obamacare too, since they have unified control of congress. So they better hope they can make it work.

I don't think this is going to play out the way we wish it would. They've already created state by state obstacles and pulled ads promoting enrollment. They'll keep chipping away at it, and as it gets worse and worse, they'll just say "we tried to help, but you're stuck with this terrible thing because you didn't go along with it!" and the American public is definitely not smart enough to figure that out on their own. In no sense do they really need to "own" it. They can just wait until it gets even worse, and then there'll be enough anger to just destroy it.
posted by Miko at 5:39 PM on September 12, 2017 [7 favorites]


SPECIAL ELECTION UPDATE

Dem GAIN in New Hampshire House Belknap-9. Dem 55-44; Trump had won this LD 56-39, so a 28 point swing to the Dems.
posted by Chrysostom at 5:42 PM on September 12, 2017 [61 favorites]


New Hampshire Dem Win? Kobach and company will probably yell "FOUL! FRAUD!" in 5... 4... 3...
posted by oneswellfoop at 5:47 PM on September 12, 2017 [3 favorites]


Meanwhile, the Supreme Court has stayed the district judge's order for Texas to redraw four gerrymandered congressional districts, in a 5-4 party-line vote, until the case ends with either a Supreme Court ruling or the justices denying cert (and letting stand whatever the 5th Circuit Court of Appeals decides). I'm trying to come up with something snide to say about these assholes and their steadfast defense of racist, anti-democratic voting laws, but I really just want to put my fist through a wall.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 6:00 PM on September 12, 2017 [20 favorites]


I beg your pardon?

I never promised you a wee garden.
posted by kirkaracha at 6:01 PM on September 12, 2017 [5 favorites]


SPECIAL ELECTION UPDATE

Dem GAIN in Oklahoma House 46. Dem 60-40; Trump had won this LD 52-41, so a 31 point swing to the Dems.
posted by Chrysostom at 6:17 PM on September 12, 2017 [54 favorites]


*cue Mr. Burns pic*

good. good.
posted by Justinian at 6:19 PM on September 12, 2017 [8 favorites]


L.A. County Approves Official Travel Restrictions To States That Threatened Legal Action Against DACA (Julia Wick, LAist)
On Tuesday—a week after Attorney General Jeff Sessions announced the Trump administration's plans to end the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program—the L.A. County Board of Supervisors approved a ban on official county travel to the nine states that opposed the DACA program. Los Angeles County is home to more DACA recipients than any other county in the nation.
posted by Room 641-A at 6:48 PM on September 12, 2017 [11 favorites]


SPECIAL ELECTION UPDATE

In GOP-held Mississippi House 102, we are going to a runoff, as no candidate cleared 50% (this was a 4-way race; MS specials are nominally non-partisan). Runoff is October 3.
posted by Chrysostom at 6:58 PM on September 12, 2017 [7 favorites]


Intercept: In a stunning move, the House of Representatives on Tuesday approved an amendment to the Make America Secure and Prosperous Appropriations Act that will roll back Attorney General Jeff Sessions’s expansion of asset forfeiture.
posted by Chrysostom at 6:59 PM on September 12, 2017 [40 favorites]


I don't get the opposition to Medicare expansion...is the problem that it doesn't current cover enough things, that its too focused on the needs of elder and disabled care to expand to the general population? Why couldn't a "Medicare for all" expansion simply increase the amount of things covered at the same time? You wouldn't even have to make it a "single payer" system at first, expand coverage and open Medicare buy-in to everyone, phased in if necessary. Eventually there could be parallel systems of public and private insurance like Australia, those who wanted employer plans or gold plated service could still have it, but everyone would have access to Medicare. Even making Medicare into the de facto public option ObamaCare always should've had would be another huge step forward.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:02 PM on September 12, 2017 [10 favorites]


In NYC election results, looks like incumbent Eric Gonzalez has won nomination for Bronx DA (i.e., not the guy progressives wanted).
posted by Chrysostom at 7:06 PM on September 12, 2017 [1 favorite]


Flynn refusing new request to speak to Hill committee (Jim Sciutto, CNN)
Senate Intelligence Chairman Richard Burr, a North Carolina Republican, has said the committee has ruled out considering Flynn's request for immunity to testify before the committee.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:06 PM on September 12, 2017 [3 favorites]


Regarding special elections, since last November, there have been 38 special elections for various State Legislature positions. Of those, 32 have not changed party hands. Of the six that changed party hands, all changed from R to D.

The average shift from the Presidential race results to the 38 specials is about 13% toward the Dems. Stats here.
posted by darkstar at 7:13 PM on September 12, 2017 [12 favorites]


Bernie has released the text of his Medicare For All bill, introducing tomorrow with at least 15 co-sponsors. 4-year phase in, no co-pays, private market only for supplemental.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:24 PM on September 12, 2017 [29 favorites]


Bill Scher, Politico: The Single-Payer Insanity

I agree with Scher (and Steve M.) that there are political risks of Democrats coming out strongly for single-payer. Part of this is that overhauling the system really is difficult and politically risky (as we've seen with the ACA's ups and downs), part of it is that Republicans are just a lot better at the messaging game.

Where I think this piece goes wrong is where he's assuming that the party's objective is to move toward single-payer in the short term at the expense of the ACA. That could happen, and to the extent that some Democrats want to use the ACA's weaknesses to make their case for single-payer, or redirect revenue from ACA subsidies to launch single-payer pilot programs, I think that's a mistake. I see no path toward expanding coverage that doesn't keep the exchanges in place for the people who need them now while expanding other programs to increase coverage elsewhere. But I do think a gradual transition to single-payer can happen without weakening the ACA, and I think the best way to do that is to have a significant number of the party's more visible leaders coming out and making the idea of single-payer seem palatable.

Democrats know, as the Republicans did in 2010, that turnout in mid-terms comes from the more committed ideological wings of the party, and single-payer is popular with the base. Yes, it has risks, and we'll have to figure a lot of details out before a true single-payer plan can be put forth as a real piece of legislation, but we need to keep the patient alive in order to cure it, and that means winning control of the House in 2018. Having single-payer at least be part of the discussion will help make that happen.
posted by tonycpsu at 7:30 PM on September 12, 2017 [10 favorites]


A little more detail on the MS 102 race from here on the ground in Hattiesburg. The run-off is between two women (yay!), one of whom is your bog-standard wealthy Mississippi Republican, and the other of whom is an energetic young person running on a very progressive platform. I went to her party tonight, which was held in a gay bar, and there was a very diverse and happy crowd.
Beaten in the race were an older Republican man who ran on his veteran status and a young attorney who ran on his frat-bro bullshit. The latter was DEMOLISHED, and no matter what happens next, that fact will keep me smiling for a while. Not so thrilling was how poor the turn-out was (~20%), but that's all too typical.
posted by thebrokedown at 8:36 PM on September 12, 2017 [36 favorites]


I was pleased the runoff is the Dem and the seemingly least bad GOP candidate.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:54 PM on September 12, 2017 [10 favorites]


In the third month of Donald Trump’s presidency, Vladimir Putin dispatched one of his diplomats to the State Department to deliver a bold proposition: The full normalization of relations between the United States and Russia across all major branches of government.
Why is a Russian reset a bold proposition when proposed by Putin but laughably stupid when proposed by a black man and a woman? I think I know the answer.
posted by xyzzy at 8:58 PM on September 12, 2017 [6 favorites]


Bernie has released the text of his Medicare For All bill, introducing tomorrow with at least 15 co-sponsors. 4-year phase in, no co-pays, private market only for supplemental.

Yeah I'm not buying this:
As he described his legislation, Sanders focused on its simplicity, suggesting that Americans would be happy to pay higher taxes if it meant the end of wrangling with health-care companies. The size of the tax increase, he said, would be determined in a separate bill.
...
“Rather than give a detailed proposal about how we’re going to raise $3 trillion a year, we’d rather give the American people options,” Sanders said. “The truth is, embarrassingly, that on this enormously important issue, there has not been the kind of research and study that we need. You’ve got think tanks, in many cases funded by the drug companies and the insurance companies, telling us how terribly expensive it’s going to be. We have economists looking at it who are coming up with different numbers. ”
Single payer is going to cost a lot of money. Can it save the country a ton of money compared to the incredibly expensive system we have now? Absolutely, which is why we should pursue it. But you're not being honest with people if you dance around that. Figuring out how to pay for it is at the heart of the plan. It's not a plan if you haven't done that. Why is he introducing a bill right now if he's blaming think tanks for not doing his homework for him? As I mentioned before, we already played the "we'll all chant SINGLE PAYER NOW! and figure out how to pay for it in another bill" game here in California this year, and it's a recipe to make every Democrat hate each other while accomplishing nothing.

Sanders did offer some ideas on how to pay for it during the campaign, albeit an arguably insufficient amount. That's great, which is why it's so frustrating that all this noise is being made now over a plan that doesn't even do that. A real plan needs to be honest enough to acknowledge the costs and pay for them.
posted by zachlipton at 9:15 PM on September 12, 2017 [20 favorites]


In NYC election results, looks like incumbent Eric Gonzalez has won nomination for Bronx DA (i.e., not the guy progressives wanted).

Yeah that stung, if only cause Gonzalez is such a snake - if it was almost anyone else this would be better. Ugh.

El-Yateem lost but only a few hundred votes, skin of the teeth in a very conservative district against an incumbent using a not-even-year-old electoral group. That's not bad. (NYC is weird cause the primary is basically the election in most cases, single party everyone) Jabari is running as a Green/Socialist and not in this primary.

Some progressive pick ups in city council but nothing upsetting - some DSA members won their primaries in Connecticut and Buffalo so that's fun. Our number of elected officials is at 15 and we see no reason that couldn't double in the next 6 months.
posted by The Whelk at 9:16 PM on September 12, 2017 [10 favorites]


Josh Dawsey at Politico reports on yet another Flynn scandal (remember him?), Flynn backed for-profit nuclear scheme inside Trump transition:
As a top official in President Donald Trump’s transition team, Lt. Gen. Michael Flynn actively promoted a private-sector scheme to build dozens of nuclear reactors across the Middle East known informally in the transition as the "Marshall Plan." But he did not publicly disclose that backers of the plan had paid him at least $25,000.

Flynn communicated during the transition with the backers of the for-profit plan, billed as a way of strengthening ties between the U.S. and Arab allies looking to develop nuclear power capability. Meanwhile, the Trump adviser expressed his support for the plan with people inside the transition—and discussed its merits with others beyond Trump Tower, according to sources within and close to the Trump team at that time.
So we have Russia, Turkey, and now nuclear reactors. All situations where Flynn took money and then steered US policy towards his clients' interests.
posted by zachlipton at 9:21 PM on September 12, 2017 [18 favorites]


Why is he introducing a bill right now if he's blaming think tanks for not doing his homework for him?

That's a pretty uncharitable reading of what he said, isn't it? He isn't asking the think tanks to do his homework for him. He's saying that the think tanks have been muddying the waters -- if not outright lying -- about the costs of single payer because it serves the interests of their masters. He then says that economists do not agree with the think tanks. Do you really disagree with those claims? They seem pretty solid to me.
posted by Jonathan Livengood at 9:44 PM on September 12, 2017 [4 favorites]


Call me old fashioned, but I want more specificity than "we have economists" by the time 15 co-sponsors are on board and Senators are seeking national attention for the plan. Have the economists produced some kind of written document about the plan people can read?

This isn't a serious plan. That's fine. There's no actual need for a serious plan, because nobody is going to so much as debate one in Congress let alone pass one anytime soon. A general blueprint is great at this stage, and this is a good one indeed. But if that's all it's going to be, don't insult our intelligence by pretending it's something more.

I was there when Sen. Harris announced she was signing onto the bill. It was nice; we all clapped. But there ought to be some follow-up to Senators announcing they're on board with a plan to dramatically revamp 18% of the economy. If people are actually saying "this is the piece of legislation I'm putting my name behind," they need more details than "we have economists" to back that up.
posted by zachlipton at 10:03 PM on September 12, 2017 [17 favorites]


In Katy Tur's new book, she describes receiving an unwanted kiss on the cheek from Trump before a "Morning Joe" appearance:
In her new book about her time on the presidential campaign trail covering Donald Trump, MSNBC host Katy Tur described receiving an unwelcome greeting from the president: a kiss on the cheek.

The incident happened before one of Trump's appearances on MSNBC's "Morning Joe."

"Before I know what's happening, his hands are on my shoulders and his lips are on my cheek," Tur wrote. "My eyes widen. My body freezes. My heart stops."

The next thing that crossed her mind, she wrote, was: "F---. I hope the cameras didn't see that. My bosses are never going to take me seriously. I didn't have time to duck!"
First: ewwwwwwwwww
Second: the President of the United States sexually assaults women
Third: how pathetic is it of our society that Tur's main concern was that she wouldn't be taken seriously?
posted by zachlipton at 10:10 PM on September 12, 2017 [53 favorites]


Are we back to why America is too special to figure out how to use a healthcare system every first world nation already has
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 10:14 PM on September 12, 2017 [21 favorites]


In Katy Tur's new book, she describes receiving an unwanted kiss on the cheek from Trump before a "Morning Joe" appearance

Whenever this demented old fool finally is ejected from office, the sheer volume of tell-all books, blog posts, Twitter threads, TV interviews, etc., each one with a more jaw-dropping story than the next, will be completely unprecedented in the history of American presidents. I can't even imagine how many incredible stories there are, just waiting to be told.
posted by CommonSense at 10:16 PM on September 12, 2017 [9 favorites]


A bit late but fyi: It's clear what Razak is looking to gain

Malay Muslim Malaysians have no surnames as understood in the Western sense. Razak here is his father. Either you do it ala OBL, and call him Bin Razak (son of Razak; even Malaysians won't necessarily understand this), or just Najib. (because of this we convey our respect via titles ie Mr Najib etc). You can see this in the articles you quoted.

anyway i'm just here 'having fun' watching him spend my tax money staying at the Trump hotel.
posted by cendawanita at 10:17 PM on September 12, 2017 [7 favorites]


> Are we back to why America is too special to figure out how to use a healthcare system every first world nation already has

Yes, because understanding the cultural, political, and structural impediments that have kept us from getting universal care for so long is necessary in order to work around them. Any proposal for truly universal care is going to have to adapt itself to the particulars of the US economy, citizenry, and political climate. If it were as easy as downloading Canada's system and replacing all instances of Canada with The United States of America, I feel like someone would have made that happen already.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:25 PM on September 12, 2017 [7 favorites]


I think there is some handwaving on one side of the universal/single-payer healthcare debate and some bean-plating on the other. The US has a single payer system already in place for those 65 and older. This could be extended to the whole population, with some tweaking, and the taxation system to support it is also already in place. No, it's not perfectly straightforward. Yes, some decisions about what to cover need to be made, as they are constantly being made under the current system, and offsetting tax increases by savings elsewhere (e.g., employer insurance payments) need to be identified and properly redirected, but compared to the Rube-Goldberg-like ACA, it's fairly simple.
posted by Mental Wimp at 10:33 PM on September 12, 2017 [29 favorites]


Whenever this demented old fool finally is ejected from office, the sheer volume of tell-all books, blog posts, Twitter threads, TV interviews, etc., each one with a more jaw-dropping story than the next, will be completely unprecedented in the history of American presidents. I can't even imagine how many incredible stories there are, just waiting to be told.

The time to come forward with those stories was a couple of years ago. Or a year ago. Or every single day since then. Anyone sitting on an amazing terrible Trump story at this point is a coward, complicit or a collaborator.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 10:36 PM on September 12, 2017 [20 favorites]


Plenty of women came forward. We had him bragging about committing sexual assault on tape for crying out loud. It changed nothing. Much as I always wish that everyone speak up as loudly as possible, I'm not prepared to condemn victims who saw the nation's indifference last fall and decided not to sign themselves up for a lifetime of hate to achieve nothing.

Except Mark Burnett. He can go right to hell.
posted by zachlipton at 10:43 PM on September 12, 2017 [38 favorites]


I really don't understand the wonk demand that every i be dotted and t crossed at this point. Unless you believe that there is a fundamental logical flaw in a proposal, it's quite reasonable to first propose a framework and then work out the details while building support. It's not like anything is going to pass before 2021. The nearest conceivable opportunity to pass it is over three years from now, and if that comes to pass, Democrats will have at least an additional year, during which -- should a majority of Democrats come out of a sweeping victory in 2020 supporting some version of single payer and/or medicare for all -- the entire wonk and academic community will throw themselves into it full-bore, just as they did for ACA. The only conceivable problem in this plan -- framework now, details over the next three years, full language in 2020-2022 -- is if the plan is so misbegotten from the get-go that this will somehow commit us to something impossible, from which there is no pathway to a workable bill. That fear seems groundless. Thousands of pieces of legislation begin with co-sponsored bills that lack many details -- indeed, this is the modal process by which almost all serious legislation gets done. The alternative, in fact, is generally both anti-democratic -- where the hard compromises are worked out behind closed doors prior to public debate -- and often less successful, like Bill Clinton's health care effort that died because it was presented as a fait accompli without building buy-in from other legislators and letting them work through the details collectively. By far the best approach is to start with a loose framework that can be democratically and publicly hashed out first, and then fill in the details as we go along. Conyers's and Sanders's bills are exactly that.
posted by chortly at 10:48 PM on September 12, 2017 [43 favorites]


How Hillary Clinton Embodies the Democrats’ Unfair but Very Real Problem
Since Clinton lost, critics have loved saying that she didn’t talk enough about the economic concerns of regular people, and that’s why she lost.

Nonsense. That’s about all she talked about. Her words may not have been just the right words. The poetry may have been on the wooden side. She may have done the talking in some of the wrong places—Philadelphia instead of Oshkosh or whatever. But she talked endlessly about all that.

And, unlike her opponent, she had specific and mostly well thought-out plans that were designed to ease these folks’ burdens, from child care to student loans to reinvestment in struggling parts of the country to you name it. Donald Trump had and still has no such plans, but of course he said two or three big boisterous things, and so he became the one who was “connecting.”

So, we have what may be the central paradox the Democrats face today: They’re the party that supports the ideas and policies that would actually improve struggling people’s lives, but because of the way the right plays cultural politics, and because the press eats that mess up, they’re the party that is continually painted—by Republicans, and by huge chunks of the mainstream press—as being remote from those people.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:57 PM on September 12, 2017 [80 favorites]


You're right, plenty of women did come forward and that's not who I meant. I should have been more clear. As horrible as it is, more stories of sexual assault by the President of the United States wouldn't be jaw-dropping. Everybody knows and his base couldn't care less. I was talking about the "tell-all books, blog posts, Twitter threads, TV interviews" that are supposedly coming after "this demented old fool finally is ejected from office." The kind of insiders who have these stories have been sitting on them largely because they don't want to leave the inside. Anyone in the position to "tell-all" who isn't telling all is doing so for a reason. At this point I am pretty cynical about their motivations.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 10:58 PM on September 12, 2017 [8 favorites]


White House transcript of the remarks by Trump and Najib repeats the exact same faux pas I noted above, crol.

Also:
PRIME MINISTER RAZAK: Thank you very much, Mr. President, for your invitation for me and members of my delegation to meet with you at the White House. I want to say that we come here with a strong value proposition to put on the table.

Number one, we want to help you in terms of strengthening the U.S. economy. I come with three specific proposals. Number one, we intend to increase the number of Boeing planes to be purchased by MAS. We are committed to 25 planes of the 737 MAX 10, plus eight 787 Dreamliners. And there is a strong probability -- not possibility – probability that we will add 25 more 737 MAX 10 in the near future. So within five years, the deal will be worth beyond $10 billion. That’s one. We will also try to persuade AirAsia to purchase GE engines.

PRESIDENT TRUMP: Great.

PRIME MINISTER RAZAK: Secondly, we have Employees Provident Fund, which is a major pension fund in Malaysia. They’ve got quite a big sum of capital to be exported. They have invested close to $7 billion, in terms of equity, in the United States. And they intend to invest three to four additional billion dollars to support your infrastructure redevelopment in the United States.

PRESIDENT TRUMP: Great.

PRIME MINISTER RAZAK: And thirdly, our sovereign fund, Khazanah, they have an office in Silicon Valley. They have invested about $400 million, in terms of high-tech companies, and they intend to increase that investment as well.


The money I send in every month to my EPF account is going somewhere I GUESS.
posted by cendawanita at 11:18 PM on September 12, 2017 [4 favorites]


They’re the party that supports the ideas and policies that would actually improve struggling people’s lives, but because of the way the right plays cultural politics, and because the press eats that mess up, they’re the party that is continually painted—by Republicans, and by huge chunks of the mainstream press—as being remote from those people.

Eh, this seems tortured. I think people can better relate to her doing a Poindexter and bringing binders full of numbers, and the people (Electoral College) went with "San Dimas High School Football Rules!"
posted by rhizome at 11:26 PM on September 12, 2017 [8 favorites]


(malaysia, a not yet certified as a Net Contributing Country, IS PROVIDING DEVELOPMENT ASSISTANCE TO THE US??)
posted by cendawanita at 11:28 PM on September 12, 2017 [2 favorites]


...but compared to the Rube-Goldberg-like ACA, it's fairly simple.

I forgot to mention one other complexity that needs to be worked out, and it applies to other major changes like cutting the defense budget radically. People will lose jobs, although an equal or greater number of jobs will be created in all likelihood. However, the transition will be painful on both sides, as the job losers are not automagically qualified for the new jobs and there aren't necessarily enough qualified people for those new jobs. Any legislation that cuts out a large number of jobs and creates new ones needs to accommodate the transition actively, by providing the funding and support to those who need to move on from their current employment and to provide programs to accelerate the development of more people to do the new jobs. Unemployment insurance, funds for retraining and additional education, hiring incentives to businesses to take on new workers, and many other things I am inadequately informed about need to be put in place, while pipelines need to be filled and accelerated for additional workers to fill the new jobs. There 's no neat solutions for turning insurance employees into healthcare workers or soldiers into teachers, but it's something that needs to be addressed.
posted by Mental Wimp at 11:49 PM on September 12, 2017 [7 favorites]


I mean if feels like if we have this huge medical insurance system and we want to replace it with a huge national single payer insurance system ....maybe some of those skills are transferable.

Like desk-based white color insurance work feels like the MOST transferable skill
posted by The Whelk at 11:54 PM on September 12, 2017 [25 favorites]


Call me old fashioned, but I want more specificity than "we have economists" by the time 15 co-sponsors are on board and Senators are seeking national attention for the plan. Have the economists produced some kind of written document about the plan people can read?

If 2016 has shown us anything it's that we're in the Underpants Gnome portion of public policy.

1) Single Payer Mission Statement
2) ???
3) PROFIT!

This is the same problem the California bill had. Everyone wants to be on board the sexy "Everyone gets health care!" non-specific paragraphs but fewer want their names attached to the 5% GST or whatever which would pay for it.

(note to dems: please don't use GST, that would be a terrible idea and is intended for illustrative purposes only.)
posted by Justinian at 1:04 AM on September 13, 2017 [7 favorites]


I mean if feels like if we have this huge medical insurance system and we want to replace it with a huge national single payer insurance system ....maybe some of those skills are transferable.

One of the reasons why single payer is much cheaper in the long run is that it requires a lot less management. You don't need assessors like you do for insurance, because that's already done by the doctor and the payer pays for whatever the doctor says. The payer has a pre-negotiated price list and hospitals have to agree to it to participate in the system.

What you cover is then actually a really important question because if one treatment is covered and another treatment is not, the doctors will be steering patients towards the treatment that's covered.

This is one of the reasons why I feel like a Canadian-style single payer system is a bad fit for America, because Americans will expect that they can get their condition covered no matter what and a) that's not sustainable, and b) you already have a private healthcare system that could easily pick up the slack for less common ailments, and that gets you your competition without having to give up on having universal coverage for common medical care.

In terms of what you cover, a good start would be a) whatever Medicare and VA already cover, b) life-threatening illnesses, c) common illnesses and procedures. From there, you'd probably look to expand to d) anything that is cheap to treat early and extremely expensive to treat late, and e) anything for which a cheaper, relatively effective treatment and an incredibly expensive treatment exists. In these cases you'd only cover the cheap things, because you're using the health system to encourage behaviour while still ensuring people get treatment.
posted by Merus at 2:14 AM on September 13, 2017 [5 favorites]


(malaysia, a not yet certified as a Net Contributing Country, IS PROVIDING DEVELOPMENT ASSISTANCE TO THE US??)

Well, is engaging in pork barrel politics in an attempt to buy off a Justice investigation. You say tomato, etc.
posted by jaduncan at 3:08 AM on September 13, 2017 [6 favorites]


As with moving from oil to sustainable energy, fear of people losing jobs is often talked about more than all the people being hurt or even killed by the current system. Having worked in health insurance I can tell you that yes, many of those skills are very transferable to other industries. In addition the transition to a new system is going to require a workforce to deal with all the newly covered folks...lotta paperwork to be done there.
posted by emjaybee at 4:56 AM on September 13, 2017 [18 favorites]


(malaysia, a not yet certified as a Net Contributing Country, IS PROVIDING DEVELOPMENT ASSISTANCE TO THE US??)

Yeah, that's pretty much World Political Economy 101.
posted by Rykey at 5:22 AM on September 13, 2017 [1 favorite]


In terms of what you cover, a good start would be [...] From there, you'd probably look to expand to [...]

My kids have a rare genetic disease called PKU. It is not life threatening but if untreated in early childhood can cause permanent brain damage. (Charlie in "Flowers for Algernon" and the movie "Charlie" had untreated PKU. Some untreated children end up non-verbal).

In adolescence and adulthood, failure to treat causes mood disorders like depression, attention deficit problems, impairs executive function leading to impulse control issues, and can impair both cognitive and motor function - difficulty walking and "fuzzy" thinking.

Women untreated during pregnancy can give birth to babies with microcephaly and other permanent neurological birth defects. (Both my kids are girls.)

The older treatment involves eating very little regular food (salads with no meat, French fries, and pixie sticks are okay, stuff with little or no natural protein) and getting most of your calories from a "Slim Fast" type supplement made with an engineered protein.) Since most people can't stick to this diet consistently for a lifetime, new treatments have been developed that allow kids to eat birthday cake (and sometimes pizza, for my kids!) but they cost about $50,000-$100,000 per year. Right now, my insurance covers this.

I don't see rare brain-threatening (but not life threatening) diseases anywhere on your list of stuff that should be covered. Please don't make me fight you for my kids' medicine. I will fight you. But I am so tired of fighting Republicans. It is exhausting to think about fighting Democrats too. Please.
posted by OnceUponATime at 5:49 AM on September 13, 2017 [28 favorites]


Barely Democratic Senator Walks Back His Interest in 'Exploring' Single Payer as Others Hop on Board (Eleanor Sheehan, Splinter)
But I guess Manchin actually gives a shit about re-election because hours after Bloomberg published his receptivity to single payer, he clarified his stance. “I am skeptical that single-payer is the right solution, but I believe that the Senate should carefully consider all of the options through regular order so that we can fully understand the impacts of these ideas on both our people and our economy,” Manchin said in a statement.
posted by Room 641-A at 5:55 AM on September 13, 2017 [7 favorites]


Campaign Legal Center Press Release: FOIA Response Reveals True Partisan Intent of Pence-Kobach Commission
The Heritage Foundation employee, whose name has been redacted by the Department of Justice, complained that the White House did not consult with their "experts" who "have written more on the voter fraud issue than anyone in the country on our side of the political aisle." A few months later, President Donald Trump appointed Hans von Spakovsky of the Heritage Foundation to the Pence-Kobach Commission. Mr. von Spakovsky is widely considered the architect of the voter fraud myth. These emails add to the mounting evidence that the commission has no interest in true bipartisanship or an open discussion of how to solve the real problems in our elections.
Gizmodo: Jeff Sessions Was Lobbied to Exclude Democrats From Trump's Election Fraud Panel - Gizmodo has a statement from the Heritage Foundation confirming that Hans von Spakovsky wrote the email, but von Spakovsky denied knowing anything about the email to Pro Publica reporter Jessica Huseman.
posted by gladly at 6:24 AM on September 13, 2017 [22 favorites]


I thought the whole point of universal single payer was its utter and absolute simplicity: you get sick, you go to the doctor, you get treated. The government pays for whatever treatment was necessary using taxes.

Why are we suddenly talking about omitting certain treatments? Where did that come in?
posted by sotonohito at 6:25 AM on September 13, 2017 [25 favorites]


Whatever we do re healthcare, I just want to reiterate the point I've made a few times: if we expect people to work into their late 60s or even 70s we need to provide those people with vision and hearing. Smh.
posted by Room 641-A at 6:31 AM on September 13, 2017 [11 favorites]


I thought the whole point of universal single payer was its utter and absolute simplicity: you get sick, you go to the doctor, you get treated. The government pays for whatever treatment was necessary using taxes.

Why are we suddenly talking about omitting certain treatments? Where did that come in?


Because there are no universal definitions of what counts as "sick," "treatment" or "necessary." We, as a society, would need to work that out.
posted by mcduff at 6:32 AM on September 13, 2017 [11 favorites]


Why are any Democrats on the President's vote suppression committee? It does nothing but add a false cover of "bipartisanship" to what everyone with any sense at all knows is just going to be a pure partisan effort to make voting harder by via the lie that voter fraud is rampant.
posted by sotonohito at 6:32 AM on September 13, 2017 [5 favorites]


Because there are no universal definitions of what counts as "sick," "treatment" or "necessary." We, as a society, would need to work that out.

Society? Don't you mean medical/mental health professionals?
posted by Bacon Bit at 6:35 AM on September 13, 2017 [2 favorites]


Society? Don't you mean medical/mental health professionals?

What I mean is SOMEONE needs to figure it out and codify it. It's not a trivial exercise. It's not "utter and absolute simplicity."
posted by mcduff at 6:38 AM on September 13, 2017 [4 favorites]


What I mean is SOMEONE needs to figure it out and codify it. It's not a trivial exercise. It's not "utter and absolute simplicity."

indeed it has never been done before in the history of the world

meanwhile, america continues to fall further behind in nearly every measure of well-being because of the myth of american exceptionalism (transportation, infrastructure, housing, you name it)

i used to wonder how the rome went from shining marble to livestock grazing in the ruins of the colosseum. no longer—i'm fucking living it
posted by entropicamericana at 6:46 AM on September 13, 2017 [68 favorites]


Charles Gaba, ACASignups.net: OK, Bernie: Tell me what you have in mind for Phase 2.
posted by tonycpsu at 6:46 AM on September 13, 2017 [3 favorites]


i used to wonder how the rome went from shining marble to livestock grazing in the ruins of the colosseum. no longer—i'm fucking living it
posted by entropicamericana


Eponysteriaaahfuckit

posted by rp at 6:50 AM on September 13, 2017 [20 favorites]


What I mean is SOMEONE needs to figure it out and codify it. It's not a trivial exercise. It's not "utter and absolute simplicity."

indeed it has never been done before in the history of the world


Indeed, it hasn't. Places that have done it change their minds constantly about what their medical systems will cover. There are always going to be experimental treatments and treatments that are found to be less effective and so on and so forth. And that doesn't even take into account that "necessary" is a moving target as well: plenty of people will never think that trans-related treatment is necessary, or believe that abortion and even birth control should be heavily restricted. Tell us whether homeopathic treatment should be covered, or chiropractic, or acupuncture, or a lot of other stuff that's on the fringes of scientific acceptance.

The answer should be somewhere between "Well, we'll never be able to codify all of it" and "Screw it, we'll figure it out later", but there needs to be an answer.
posted by Etrigan at 7:01 AM on September 13, 2017 [11 favorites]


i used to wonder how the rome went from shining marble to livestock grazing in the ruins of the colosseum. no longer—i'm fucking living it

I'm not arguing against healthcare for all. I'm just pushing back against the comments here that it is a simple and easy exercise to go from the principle to the reality of it.

Yes, it's been done elsewhere. That's great! I'm not saying it's impossible. I'm not saying it isn't worth doing. I'm saying that it is an expression of american exceptionalism to think we can snap our fingers and make it happen.

Let's do the work to make it happen. Step one is acknowledging that it IS work.
posted by mcduff at 7:09 AM on September 13, 2017 [9 favorites]


zachlipton: Call me old fashioned, but I want more specificity than "we have economists" by the time 15 co-sponsors are on board and Senators are seeking national attention for the plan.

I hear you, but I also applaud political moves that push the dialog hard to the left, even if there's nothing propping it up to make it feasible (yet). Why?

tonycpsu: Democrats know, as the Republicans did in 2010, that turnout in mid-terms comes from the more committed ideological wings of the party, and single-payer is popular with the base.

THIS. Keep the narrative exciting, because the policy means nothing if you don't have the votes.

darkstar: The average shift from the Presidential race results to the 38 specials is about 13% toward the Dems.

So keep up the enthusiasm for the Dems. GOP runs on fear, uncertainty and doubt, but the Dems shouldn't. Hopefully the broad, visible, public push back against the Republican anti-progress platform will continue, but I don't think it will be enough to be the party of Not Republicans to take back the House and Senate in 2018.

Keep working towards viable policies in the background, but focus on the big messages of hope and optimism. Have good answers to tough questions ready, but don't make detailed policy a central part of the big picture campaigns.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:11 AM on September 13, 2017 [22 favorites]


Figuring out how to pay for it is at the heart of the plan.

Yeah Bernie, we don’t up and just pass authorizations of military force to go invade countries and bomb shit until we figure out how it gets paid for. I mean, you think we’re going to just be sorting it out later in military appropriations bills that simply send the forces and operations the necessary amount of money to do the job we decided needed to get done? Why would we do it that way for keeping people healthy and getting them health care?
posted by phearlez at 7:16 AM on September 13, 2017 [24 favorites]


.38 Special?
posted by kirkaracha at 7:17 AM on September 13, 2017


We, as a society, would also need to decide what kind of letterhead to use on the stationery that is mailed out to inform people that they now have health care coverage. And we will need to decide what color carpet to install in the new offices for the administrators that deal with processing the increased health care claims. And we will need to decide whether to use the Oxford comma in the press releases that enumerate the health conditions covered.

There are lots of decisions to be made. It's not a simple, straightforward task on any level, from the arch questions of what diseases to cover down to the tedious ones of what brand of coffee to stock in the break room.

But the complexity or number of questions to be addressed should never be used to throw up FUD about WHETHER to move forward on adopting a plan, because we KNOW that shifting to a more universalized, government-subsidized plan is the way to go. Questions about what to cover really can be resolved in a manner that is cognate with the way they are resolved now, though it might be government administrators-physicians-private citizens advisory boards making the call.

In my mind, the bigger issues that DO still need to be addressed are the larger structural ones, such as: should it be Single Payer or just a Public Option? I'm not sure that a pure Single Payer is preferable at this state. It might be that simply offering a buy-in option to Medicare is a smoother approach, and then incrementally expanding the Medicare option so it covers a broader age range, more ailments, and has a subsidy scheme for lower income people.

Such a public option might be less an upheaval to our system as we transition perhaps to Single Payer / Universal Coverage in the future.
posted by darkstar at 7:17 AM on September 13, 2017 [33 favorites]


David Anderson, Balloon Juice: First thoughts on the Sanders single payer bill
The Sanders single payer starts the needed process of fleshing out how single payer as envisioned by its proponents, would work in the United States.  This is a needed step.  We must have a blueprint with which to assess viability, identify areas of concern, note critical omissions and evaluate feasibility and points of weakness.  The bill and the three page explainer can be downloaded from this link.

Emma Sandoe has the best initial take on the bill:
@emma_sandoe: Preemptive single payer hot take - the policy really doesn't matter right now. It's about a general idea and belief. The window of opportunity is shut. This is about getting ducks in a row for when it opens. pic.twitter.com/enExc1SGEV
The bill, as I understand it, aims to create a model that is fairly close to Medicaid for all with Medicare branding. It assumes multiple trillions of dollars of new revenue every year as it is trying to just lay out the coverage side of the problem.

Now let’s dig into the weeds: [...]

I have several major concerns for this bill. I don’t understand where the money is coming from. The prescription drug elements of the bill seems to conflict with other parts of the law. I don’t agree with the level of trust in the Secretary of Health and Human Services that the bill uses. I see de facto nationalization of most medical facilities given the payment structure and contract limitations.

The bill barely addresses financing. Eliminating the ability of employers to offer insurance effectively captures almost all of the lost revenue form the favored tax treatment of insurance premiums as theoretically wages should roughly increase at the same magnitude. There are some intergovernmental transfers that will provide some funding. But there is a funding gap that I am incapable of estimating beyond the language of my five year old in assessing how tall the buildings around him are. The hole is either very big or super, super huge. [...]

This bill is a needed attempt to explain how single payer goes from a slogan with one thousand different meanings to an actual system. It hand-waves the financing of a system while primarily focused on the mechanics of benefit provision. That is fine for a first step but even within this limited first step, I am having a hard time seeing how the bill produces the positive outcomes it wants to produce at an acceptable long run cost.
posted by tonycpsu at 7:17 AM on September 13, 2017 [6 favorites]


darkstar, I'm not sure if you are responding to me, but I think I'm being misinterpreted. I 100% think we should move forward. I am simply responding to the comments here that state that establishing "universal healthcare" or "medicare for all" is a simple, clearcut, already-solved thing.
posted by mcduff at 7:26 AM on September 13, 2017 [3 favorites]


I understand the notion that this is just a Blue Sky Thinking exercise and it'll get people excited and get the conversation started. What I am very concerned about is how incredibly easy it will be for Republicans just be like "Pffft, where will the money come from? I bet it's going to come from bleeding Joe Sixpack dry! Did you hear that Joe Sixpack? THEY ARE GOING TO STEAL YOUR MONEY!" Having an actual detailed plan allows a cogent rebuttal. Having little or no plan just let's that assertion hang out there with the only rebuttal being "Nuh-uh."
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:28 AM on September 13, 2017 [9 favorites]


never said it was simple but there are literally dozens of other nations that make case studies, examples, and benchmarks; we're not starting from scratch. the issue is not the complexity, it is the will. same with many other issues we are facing.
posted by entropicamericana at 7:30 AM on September 13, 2017 [14 favorites]


filthy light thief: So keep up the enthusiasm for the Dems. GOP runs on fear, uncertainty and doubt, but the Dems shouldn't. Hopefully the broad, visible, public push back against the Republican anti-progress platform will continue, but I don't think it will be enough to be the party of Not Republicans to take back the House and Senate in 2018.

Then again, what the hell do I know? Trump, Bannon Maneuvers Could Threaten GOP Senate Majority (Jessica Taylor, NPR, Sept. 13, 2017)
President Trump and his allies aren't exactly running the playbook Republicans want him to ahead of the 2018 midterms. And that could be costly for the GOP at the ballot box next year.

Most recently, he's lashed out harder at his own party's two most vulnerable senators in 2018 — Dean Heller of Nevada and Jeff Flake of Arizona — than he has at any Democrat up for re-election. He's heaped praise on North Dakota Sen. Heidi Heitkamp, a potentially vulnerable Democrat, and made a deal — at the expense of Republican leaders he's publicly bashed — to raise the debt ceiling, a longtime anathema to conservatives.

On top of that, Trump's pugnacious former top aide Steve Bannon, freed from the confines of the West Wing, seems primed to go to war with the GOP establishment by funding Senate primary challengers. That could mean Republicans are saddled with weaker general election nominees — complicating a cycle where the GOP has plenty of vulnerable Democratic senators to knock off and should be primed for pickups in the upper chamber of Congress.
We could just sit back and let Trump be Trump, and Bannon do his Bannon thing and they'll tear the GOP down while the Dems stand back and easily pick up wins against internally weakened GOP seats.

Still, I think it's safe to be the party of something.

Preemptive single payer hot take - the policy really doesn't matter right now. It's about a general idea and belief. The window of opportunity is shut. This is about getting ducks in a row for when it opens.

That's what I'm thinking, too. We're in the VC courting phase of re-developing the Democrats: make a strong pitch, get the money (and votes), then make it work when you've actually succeeded in having the support to make the changes.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:30 AM on September 13, 2017 [7 favorites]


yes actual detailed plans are clearly what the electorate is looking for, as the 2000, 2004, and 2016 elections so admirably demonstrate
posted by entropicamericana at 7:32 AM on September 13, 2017 [49 favorites]


> We could just sit back and let Trump be Trump, and Bannon do his Bannon thing and they'll tear the GOP down while the Dems stand back and easily pick up wins against internally weakened GOP seats.

I would really like to believe that's what would happen.
posted by The Card Cheat at 7:34 AM on September 13, 2017 [1 favorite]


And the electorate can't agree on what should be covered. There's a disturbingly high number of people (not politicians, actual people) who are adamantly against abortion and birth control.
posted by Melismata at 7:34 AM on September 13, 2017 [7 favorites]


The electorate wants a plan that basically says "You get more stuff and do not pay more taxes." If you can assure people of that without a plan, with the GOP screaming from the rooftops about how everyone is definitely going to pay more taxes, I'm all ears.

You don't have to have a 500-page whitepaper to be able to produce a couple 3-color bar charts that demonstrate that Republican predictions of doom are incorrect.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:37 AM on September 13, 2017 [8 favorites]


zachlipton: But there ought to be some follow-up to Senators announcing they're on board with a plan to dramatically revamp 18% of the economy.

Do you know what percentage of that chunk of the economy is focused on health care insurance? A decade ago, health insurance industry employment outpacing providers and all-industry growth rates, but the actual total employment of health care insurance industry (444,000) was about 3.3% of the health care industry a as a whole, when considered with the 13,042,000 physicians, nurses, and others who provide health services or work to support them. I'd be interested to see more current figures.

Health care insurance wouldn't go away, but it would be heavily scaled back. So that (now rather dated figure) of 444k people is a lot less daunting when you think of industry shake-ups.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:37 AM on September 13, 2017 [4 favorites]


Maybe we should be asking Repulicans how they plan to pay for tax cuts, rather than knee cap our own aspirational blueprint statement that has no chance of passing or even getting a hearing.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:37 AM on September 13, 2017 [28 favorites]


The bill barely addresses financing. Eliminating the ability of employers to offer insurance effectively captures almost all of the lost revenue form the favored tax treatment of insurance premiums as theoretically wages should roughly increase at the same magnitude. There are some intergovernmental transfers that will provide some funding. But there is a funding gap that I am incapable of estimating beyond the language of my five year old in assessing how tall the buildings around him are. The hole is either very big or super, super huge.

You can turn the effective amount paid by companies offering real insurance into an additional payroll tax rate. Apply that tax rate to companies that initially didn't provide insurance for their employees pulling in more income, plus you get an extra 15% now that you don't let the insurance companies take their pound of flesh for essential services and the hole will be nowhere near as catastrophic as everyone makes it out to be.
posted by Talez at 7:38 AM on September 13, 2017 [4 favorites]


@realDonaldTrump
With Irma and Harvey devastation, Tax Cuts and Tax Reform is needed more than ever before. Go Congress, go!


Guys these natural disasters mean we have to act now to accelerate the disintegration of our government and rip the heart of our ailing social contract out of its asshole. No time to think about why! Now now now!
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:41 AM on September 13, 2017 [45 favorites]


Oh and if we're doing everything through Medicare we can ditch Medicaid completely. All that funding can be applied to Medicare plus we get the bad states out of the loop completely and stop them from fucking everything up for poor people.
posted by Talez at 7:43 AM on September 13, 2017 [8 favorites]


> Maybe we should be asking Repulicans how they plan to pay for tax cuts, rather than knee cap our own aspirational blueprint statement that has no chance of passing or even getting a hearing.

We do, but they lie, and since the Founding Fathers provided no Supreme Court of Fact-Checkers in the Constitution, the public -- particularly the GOP's target audience -- decides to listen to what they want to hear -- that the rainbow sparkle ponies of tax cuts and jerb creation will save us.

The standard of proof for our side is higher. We need to accept that.
posted by tonycpsu at 7:44 AM on September 13, 2017 [9 favorites]


ESPN Distances Itself From SportsCenter Host Jemele Hill's tweets about Trump. Though I'm sorry, where is the lie in what she posted?
posted by TwoStride at 7:47 AM on September 13, 2017 [4 favorites]


guys remember how al gore's lockbox argument took the republic by storm? we need that kind of momentum again
posted by entropicamericana at 7:48 AM on September 13, 2017 [7 favorites]


> guys remember how al gore's lockbox argument took the republic by storm? we need that kind of momentum again

Thanks. Snark like this is really elevating the discussion.
posted by tonycpsu at 7:56 AM on September 13, 2017 [4 favorites]


I get that the devil is in the details, but while we're spitballing can we not get quite so angry about things that haven't taken place?
Ideally, all of the issues would be sorted out, but starting with a basic idea and growing it is more plausible than it springing fully formed from someone's head. Good policy isn't just something that happens.
Perhaps while we are out of power we should build on good ideas instead of tearing them apart for not being fully-formed. "Yes, and..." is more helpful than "but it's terrible because it hasn't addressed this." We can scale back our castles in the sky, but not even bothering to frame our own efforts positively is hardly the way to win people over.
posted by Trifling at 7:57 AM on September 13, 2017 [20 favorites]


Still, I think it's safe to be the party of something.

I think this is why standing for single payer, Medicare for All, universal coverage, whatever you want to call it, is so important for the Democrats - that even Joe Manchin spoke out in favor of it. Democrats - at least the mainstream, DLCC/DNC wing, have the reputation of being "if they were a spice they'd be flour. If they were a book they'd be TWO books." (I see an elected office in bland, boring Jessica's future!) Centrists, corporate, flip-floppers, trying so hard to appease both donors and voters they wind up appealing to no one. And that translates into voter apathy and no-one showing up at the polls during midterms and the Republicans handing us our centrist, appeaser asses.

Taking a stand on universal health care is a great first step. Now let's start taking stands on women's rights, the environment, and improving the lot of ordinary working people, for starters.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 7:58 AM on September 13, 2017 [15 favorites]


The electorate wants a plan that basically says "You get more stuff and do not pay more taxes." If you can assure people of that without a plan, with the GOP screaming from the rooftops about how everyone is definitely going to pay more taxes, I'm all ears.

"People much richer than you will pay a tiny bit more. You will pay about what you're already paying to your insurer, but without all the hassle of arguing with them every time they send you another mystery bill for something you thought was covered."
posted by emjaybee at 8:03 AM on September 13, 2017 [14 favorites]


> We can scale back our castles in the sky, but not even bothering to frame our own efforts positively is hardly the way to win people over.

I see this as an excercise in war-gaming. The proposal will get attacked by the wingnutosphere, and by the press, who loves them a good wonk fight, but somehow thinks Paul Ryan's depth of understanding counts as wonkery. This means that we're going to have to come correct. If the plan can't survive first contact with some questions about costs from people who support the idea of covering everyone, how will it survive the years-long process of building support, running on it to get elected, and eventually pushing it through Congress and sending it to the desk of a future Democratic president?
posted by tonycpsu at 8:04 AM on September 13, 2017 [6 favorites]


The basic principal that people have a right to health care seems to be widely accepted among liberals and on the left, and there are systems in the United States that are based upon universality -- military health care and the VA, medicare for the elderly -- and there is literally a hundred years of thought on how these systems can practically work, going back to that Rabid Red, Bismarck. But the notion gets treated as if the people who want universal healthcare were arguing for colonization of Venus.

"We should check into this universal insurance business."

"What?! What about the acid rain?! And the crushing gravity!?"

I just think, maybe we can make sure people can get medicine and treatment. All kinds of countries do it."

"Oh sure, we'll just wish away the searing heat and deadly lightning storms, then!"

"...wha?"
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:06 AM on September 13, 2017 [18 favorites]


This means that we're going to have to come correct. If the plan can't survive first contact with some questions about costs from people who support the idea of covering everyone, how will it survive the years-long process of building support, running on it to get elected, and eventually pushing it through Congress and sending it to the desk of a future Democratic president?

This sounds right, but has never worked for us. Our efforts to get things precise and answer all objections merely seem to weaken us, politically and open up avenues of attack.

The political value of simple ideas is that they're harder to fight than 20 page policy docs no one wants to read.

Sadly, what I think we need is more bluster. It's all that seems to work on voters. We should still do the hard policy work, we will have to, but on the news shows, we mostly need to have a few talking points and dogged determination to advocate for our plan.

The 'ol razzle-dazzle, in other words.
posted by emjaybee at 8:08 AM on September 13, 2017 [27 favorites]


never said it was simple but there are literally dozens of other nations that make case studies, examples, and benchmarks; we're not starting from scratch. the issue is not the complexity, it is the will. same with many other issues we are facing.

That's what Republicans thought about repeal and replace. (Their "benchmark" was pre-2009 America.) They had the will, but could not agree on a plan.

There are a lot of stakeholders in the current system. There are a lot of people with a lot to lose. Everybody is going to be asking "What is going to happen to MY [job/investments/taxes/med school loans/local hospital/local planned parenthood/parents' homecare aid/kids' medicine]?" And without a detailed PLAN we cannot answer those questions. And without answers to those questions, we will never get a critical mass of people on board to support the change.

Democrats needs to realize that much of the opposition to repealing ACA comes from the same place as the opposition to enacting it did -- fear of change. People who have a lot to lose. And darkstar, normally I agree with you, but I think it's kind of insulting to compare the "details" people are worried about with changing the healthcare system to the color of the carpet in the admins' offices. The details in this case are about livelihoods and about life and death. They are NOT trivial.

Again, I am not opposed to single payer in theory, or as an idea. But at the point where all the Democratic front runners are endorsing a bill it's time to go beyond the basic idea and start answering people's questions about how it will affect them. I feel like I am saying "Yes and..." AND I think it should start as a public OPTION so that people won't have to feel so afraid of losing the coverage/jobs they already have. AND I think the revenue stream should literally show up in place of people's health insurance premiums on their paychecks, so they can see that they are not losing anything overall. AND I think premiums should be subsidized just like they are in ACA.

Yes, "Medicare for all" AND here are some ideas for how we could actually do it -- wish I could get other Democrats to either embrace them or offer something better.
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:08 AM on September 13, 2017 [15 favorites]


The electorate wants a plan that basically says 'You get more stuff and do not pay more taxes.' If you can assure people of that without a plan, with the GOP screaming from the rooftops about how everyone is definitely going to pay more taxes, I'm all ears.

Cut the defense budget.
posted by kirkaracha at 8:11 AM on September 13, 2017 [23 favorites]


> This sounds right, but has never worked for us. Our efforts to get things precise and answer all objections merely seem to weaken us, politically and open up avenues of attack.

It has worked for us, though. The only reason we have the ACA is because we had pretty good answers for most of the criticisms. And in some cases, we had to take some poetic license on things about being able to keep your doctor, the exchanges being simple to navigate, etc. All of that was worth it, and had we not addressed these things, we would not have the numbers of uninsured declining as we do with the ACA in place.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:12 AM on September 13, 2017 [5 favorites]


I know, "weak on defense," blah blah blah. We can have the domestic stuff we want if we decide not to pay for an empire.
posted by kirkaracha at 8:12 AM on September 13, 2017 [9 favorites]


I see de facto nationalization of most medical facilities given the payment structure and contract limitations.

Yeah, mate, that's the idea. Competition between medical providers is the thing single-payer is intended to stop.

I don't see rare brain-threatening (but not life threatening) diseases anywhere on your list of stuff that should be covered. Please don't make me fight you for my kids' medicine. I will fight you. But I am so tired of fighting Republicans. It is exhausting to think about fighting Democrats too. Please.

I can't be a Democrat because I'm not American, but sure. My intention was to say where you start, which are the slam-dunk things you need to cover. People who lived because they got the care they needed. Things that most Americans are going to interact with and the systems for providing them are already in place. Things that will measurably increase productivity. I do not believe it's okay for your children to suffer because they had the misfortune of a rare and non-life threatening disease. But I also recognise that overturning the entire business model of three or four different industries is perilous, and if things get wobbly people will die, and letting that happen is a moral failing. And the system will have issues, and there will be people whose job it is to ratfuck it, and America has shown no capacity for big, transformative change like this - or, at least, they are, ahem, kilometres behind the rest of the world.

SIngle-payer is not a silver bullet. It's morally repugnant to give suffering people the false hope that any system labelled 'single-payer' will ease their pain. It's still worth doing, and it's not the end of the road, but be prepared for it to look pretty shit compared to Canada's system for a while.

PKU is an interesting case because I'm reading that PKU sufferers also need a special low-protein diet (although OUAT can speak to this better than I can). 'Food' is not normally a thing people think of when they think of subsidising medical care.

Medication gets tricky, because you want to offer medicine but that medicine is often made by multinational companies who will use every dirty trick to maximise their profits. For instance, they can set their prices at hundreds of dollars and then pay to set up a sufferers' group to lobby the government to fully subsidise the medication, which once done then gets put up to thousands of dollars while they look the government in the eye, smirking. You need to see this coming and design a response into the system, or else money that should be spent on kids with rare genetic diseases instead gets spent on giving into pharma blackmail.
posted by Merus at 8:15 AM on September 13, 2017 [5 favorites]


With the electorate, was it the wonkery of ACA or the idea of "hey you've never had healthcare, now you can" though?

Internally, yes, it was a hard-fought battle of wonkery plus deal-making and political maneuvering. That's going to happen no matter what.

But externally, our message can't be "Subsection 4/paragraph 6 guarantees people making under 100k will not pay more in taxes except for these 8 exceptions, which I will list."

It has to be "Healthcare for you, American citizen currently despairing over your medical bills/not getting the surgery you desperately need/unable to take your sick kids to the doctor."
posted by emjaybee at 8:21 AM on September 13, 2017 [16 favorites]


"Medicare for all" AND here are some ideas for how we could actually do it

Al Franken: “Our bumper stickers always end with ‘continued on next bumper sticker,’ ”
posted by mach at 8:23 AM on September 13, 2017 [39 favorites]


> It has to be "Healthcare for you, American citizen currently despairing over your medical bills/not getting the surgery you desperately need/unable to take your sick kids to the doctor."

Yes, which is why I praised the idea of putting a single-payer plan out there and getting substantial Democratic support for it above. We have to do both -- have heavy hitters on the D side say "this is what we want" to the public, and also work to establish how we'll do this in practice when we have the votes and the Presidency.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:24 AM on September 13, 2017 [2 favorites]


In short: we can walk and chew gum at the same time. Walking is kind of a drag, yes, and not everyone cares about getting their steps in so they don't need to know about it, but you don't have to deride the importance of walking in order to enjoy your juicy fruit.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:28 AM on September 13, 2017 [3 favorites]


Room 641-A: "But I guess Manchin actually gives a shit about re-election because hours after Bloomberg published his receptivity to single payer, he clarified his stance. “I am skeptical that single-payer is the right solution, but I believe that the Senate should carefully consider all of the options through regular order so that we can fully understand the impacts of these ideas on both our people and our economy,” Manchin said in a statement."

That...actually strikes me as a totally reasonable statement to make?
posted by Chrysostom at 8:29 AM on September 13, 2017 [6 favorites]


TwoStride: ESPN Distances Itself From SportsCenter Host Jemele Hill's tweets about Trump. Though I'm sorry, where is the lie in what she posted?
The height of white privilege is being able to ✌🏾ignore✌🏾his white supremacy, because it's of no threat to you. Well, it's a threat to me.
— Jemele Hill (@jemelehill) September 11, 2017
THIS. IS. EVERYTHING.

[Not sure what the blocks are supposed to represent, they didn't render on Chrome, so I copied them directly from the Boston.com article and hoped for the best]

Unfortunately, then AP threw some ugly shade, because why not add some noise to the topic at hand?
While many Twitter users called for Hill to be fired, unemployed NFL quarterback Colin Kaepernick expressed his support, tweeting “We are with you @jemelehill.”

Kaepernick, who remains unsigned after opting out of his contract with the San Francisco 49ers, received plenty of criticism — and support — after kneeling during the national anthem before games last season to protest police brutality.
Note that the AP writer focused on the criticism of Kaepernick first — and then the support — as if the his broad support for protesting, though divided support for not standing, was the real issue here. (Other polls didn't find the same level of support, but I'll play arbiter of what is good and normal and say screw those polls. Anyway, it feels pretty disingenuous to ask a majority population to weigh in on the actions of someone in the minority on the topic of the treatment of the minority, when the minority has a pretty strong case for being profiled and singled out for their minority status.)

In short, it felt like a rather racist take on not one, but two people addressing the systematic racism, which currently goes to the very top of the country.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:29 AM on September 13, 2017 [39 favorites]


FLT, they're dark-skinned V hands. Maybe the intention was to do air quotes?
posted by Merus at 8:32 AM on September 13, 2017 [4 favorites]


That...actually strikes me as a totally reasonable statement to make?

Except for the "regular order" part. If Manchin isn't a yes vote for cloture when the inevitable GOP filibusters happen, he's worthless.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:33 AM on September 13, 2017 [1 favorite]


Metafilter: somewhere between "Well, we'll never be able to codify all of it" and "Screw it, we'll figure it out later"
posted by hanov3r at 8:33 AM on September 13, 2017 [4 favorites]


Yeah, mate, that's the idea. Competition between medical providers is the thing single-payer is intended to stop.

Not necessarily. For instance in Australia all the GPs are privately owned. Medicare reimburses a set amount for a GP visit so providers can either accept the amount offered or offset a fixed fee by the Medicare rebate.

So if you want to go to a gorgeous GP with a crystal chandelier you can pay $50 a visit and the government puts in their $37. If you want to go to a regular GP around the corner you pay a $20 visit and the government puts in their $37. If you're unemployed the government puts in $42 instead and most GPs will just cover it.
posted by Talez at 8:39 AM on September 13, 2017 [9 favorites]


"People much richer than you will pay a tiny bit more. You will pay about what you're already paying to your insurer, but without all the hassle of arguing with them every time they send you another mystery bill for something you thought was covered."

This is my ad for universal health-care: splitscreen, one side a family in the US today, one side a similar family in Canada.

Scene 1: In the US, dad is filling out a stack of paperwork in the ER, while casting worried looks at his son with a broken arm. In Canada, the dad confidently shows his insurance card at the check-in desk and the can sit and focus on comforting his son - it's gonna be okay.

Scene 2: In the US, the parents are going through bills at the kitchen table at night. Huge stack of paperwork, they're confused, "but I thought this was covered? why are we getting a bill from *them*?" They argue. In Canada, the parents are happily watching tv together, they have no bills.

Scene 3: In the US, mom is making phone calls from work trying to find a place that takes their insurance or fighting with the insurance company. In Canada, mom is participating in a work meeting and being productive.

Scene 4: In the US, dad wants to quit his job and change careers or start a small business, but both parents agree he can't do it because of insurance. In Canada, both parents say "good thing we don't have to worry about health coverage -- honey let's make your dreams come true" and then dad's happily working in his new job.

Scene 5: In the US, grandma's in the hospital, and the doctor asks "but why didn't you come in sooner? we could have cured this if we'd caught it earlier!" In Canada, grandma's at home playing cards with the family, and explaining "I went to the doctor and they said they were glad they caught it so early - the treatment was easy and I'm gonna be fine"

etc.
posted by LobsterMitten at 8:41 AM on September 13, 2017 [109 favorites]


In short, it felt like a rather racist take on not one, but two people addressing the systematic racism, which currently goes to the very top of the country.

Like how Pewdiepie used n****r on stream as an insult, issued a public apology (a good one to be fair), and I watch all these white people being all "well that's settled with".

All I can think is, "well, it's not really my apology to accept because it's for PoC not me".
posted by Talez at 8:42 AM on September 13, 2017 [14 favorites]


Josh Marshall of Talking Points Memo on how Facebook’s Heading Toward a Bruising Run-In With the Russia Probe
A separate article by Yahoo’s Mike Isikoff reports that Trevor Potter, a former FEC Chair and president of the Campaign Legal Center, wrote a letter to Facebook and Chairman Mark Zuckerberg yesterday calling on Facebook to release the information [about Russian sponsored adverts and events] and upping the ante by writing this (emphasis added): “[B]y hosting these secretly-sponsored Russian political ads, Facebook appears to have been used as an accomplice in a foreign government’s effort to undermine democratic self-governance in the United States [emph. in original]. Therefore, we ask you, as the head of a company that has used its platform to promote democratic engagement, to be transparent about how foreign actors used that same platform to undermine our democracy.”

Facebook has said that it can’t release its findings because that would violate its own ‘internal policies’ which protect user privacy. That’s rich. [...]

Facebook is so accustomed to treating its ‘internal policies’ as though they were something like laws that they appear to have a sort of blind spot that prevents them from seeing how ridiculous their resistance sounds. To use the cliche, it feels like a real shark jumping moment. As someone recently observed, Facebook’s ‘internal policies’ are crafted to create the appearance of civic concerns for privacy, free speech, and other similar concerns. But they’re actually just a business model. Facebook’s ‘internal policies’ amount to a kind of Stepford Wives version of civic liberalism and speech and privacy rights, the outward form of the things preserved while the innards have been gutted and replaced by something entirely different, an aggressive and totalizing business model which in many ways turns these norms and values on their heads. More to the point, most people have the experience of Facebook’s ‘internal policies’ being meaningless in terms of protecting their speech or privacy or whatever as soon as they bump up against Facebook’s business model. [...]

Regardless of that, I think the political juice of the Russia story is pushing Facebook toward a bruising encounter with the reality that it’s not God, not a government, not the law. It’s just a website. It can’t happen soon enough.
I think it's quite clear at this point that something needs to change with regard to how these large social media companies, particularly Facebook and Twitter, operate with respect to how they are managing certain types of content--especially news, political advertizing, and hate speech. Unfortunately, there is very little incentive for these companies to do anything because their business model is data mining and advertizing, so implementing policies that would reduce user engagement--i.e. fresh data input--or revenue from those sources is unlikely. I am unsure what the solution is here, but these companies make it easier and easier to poison the well of public discourse.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 8:42 AM on September 13, 2017 [35 favorites]


etc.
posted by LobsterMitten at 11:41 AM on September 13


But there are no wonks in this commercial at all
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:46 AM on September 13, 2017 [6 favorites]


Let's not make Mexico pay for the wall. They can pay our health care instead.

Less flippantly, providing healthcare for all 330 million Americans is going to be expensive, but so was the New Deal, the ADA; Medicare currently costs quite a bit of money for the government to provide.

We have been fighting to keep Obamacare with all its compromises for over seven years. Single payer was not on the table then, and if we're allowing the concept to even be in the room now, yes, there are some additional details to be ironed out in a practical manner.

The Byrd rule applies to any changes to (current, existing) Medicare and states that it must reduce entitlement spending OR change the debt ceiling. With an agreeable Congress, that could be an acceptable solution.

If raising the debt ceiling is used to "pay" for the plan, the GOP's response will be to compare the US budget to a family's household budget or giving a credit card to drug addict, and tar "liberals" as being fiscally irresponsible and ignorant.

However the current boondoggle of a system we have, which is better than what came before, is more expensive per-capita, than any other system in the world; more expensive than Luxembourg, Switzerland, or Norway.

If we're so eager to give CEOs of health insurance companies more money so they can buy a second private jet (to be used when the first one is in the shop. As you do.), just so the undeserving poors have to steal money to pay for dental work and they receive zero help in the form of tax dollars, then by all means, let's keep the current system.

How I would pay for medicare for all: seize health insurance companies and their money, and shut them down. Use that to pay for initial costs, and codify existing employer contributions and use that to pay for the future. I bet without the middleman of health insurance companies, that money can go further.

Then again, federally legalizing cannabis and taxing the hell out of it, or taxing income over $1 million at 90%, both seem like reasonable propositions to me, so I'm clearly not a serious contender for office.
posted by fragmede at 8:46 AM on September 13, 2017 [4 favorites]


Tell us whether homeopathic treatment should be covered, or chiropractic, or acupuncture, or a lot of other stuff that's on the fringes of scientific acceptance.

The answer should be somewhere between "Well, we'll never be able to codify all of it" and "Screw it, we'll figure it out later", but there needs to be an answer.


are you kidding or aren't there any actual hard questions? Answers are respectively No; No but Yes if you call it "manual physical therapy" or massage provided by a licensed PT to someone with a diagnosis of some kind; and No but Yes if you call it dry needling and have a physical therapist do it. give me a tricky one.

and whoever suggested rolling it out with cheap early treatments but not late expensive treatments covered, which means abortion costs Yes, labor & delivery costs No, great idea and a very nice change from the status quo, should be the fastest coverage expansion ever, let's do it.
posted by queenofbithynia at 8:51 AM on September 13, 2017 [3 favorites]


> But there are no wonks in this commercial at all

If you have a plan to eventually move away from snarky hottakes and toward engaging with the arguments being made, now would be a great time for that.

Nobody here is saying "we can't support any changes until the wonks say it's okay." Nobody wants Jonathan Gruber in the TV ads for this shit explaining the tax exclusion for employer plans or differences in cost control under a number of baseline assumptions. That doesn't mean that answering questions about financial feasability isn't a good idea for when we actually have the ability to pass a real bill. We don't want to be making the same mistake the GOP made with "repeal and replace" -- getting caught without answers to basic questions about coverage, costs, etc. Why are you treating questions about those issues as hostility toward the idea itself?
posted by tonycpsu at 8:51 AM on September 13, 2017 [6 favorites]




I suspect part of the argument here is that some of us are talking about how to **SELL** the plan, and others are talking about how to build the plan.

Sure, we need wonkery and all the infighting worked out and details hammered out and a solid plan. We absolutely don't need to be caught in a repeal and replace type trap where we win the election but then can't move forward.

But that's a totally separate issue from selling the plan, and agreeing at least in general principle on the basics. The basics, the essence, is both easy to agree on and easy to sell: you're covered. That's it. Nice and simple. Go to the doctor, get treated, it'll cover everything (including dental!) and at worst it'll cost about what your current health insurance does and probably less.

That's what we sell.

The other stuff is utterly essential, no argument, but it's also a totally different discussion from "how do we sell this and how do we get the politicians to come on board?"
posted by sotonohito at 8:59 AM on September 13, 2017 [9 favorites]


Today in "ICE and the people who support are the goddamn worst": Attorneys Suspect Motel 6 Calling ICE on Undocumented Guests. Apparently they just send their guest list to the local ICE office every night and get $200/person busted. It's not even a single awful franchisee, either, since these locations are corporate-owned.
posted by Copronymus at 9:03 AM on September 13, 2017 [43 favorites]


We don't want to be making the same mistake the GOP made with "repeal and replace" -- getting caught without answers to basic questions about coverage, costs, etc.

The reason the GOP got caught with their pants down is because they were arguing in bad faith from the very beginning. Repeal, sure, but they never had any plans to replace the ACA with anything, because what they really want is free-market feudalism. The left actually wants affordable health care for everybody, and people are thinking about ways to do that.

[On preview: See sotonohito's comment above for elaboration.]
posted by Faint of Butt at 9:05 AM on September 13, 2017 [17 favorites]


guys, i'm scared—tehhund just faved a comment from this morning

what happens when he finally catches up to our timeline? i'm picturing total protonic reversal
posted by entropicamericana at 9:10 AM on September 13, 2017 [36 favorites]


Lindsey Graham revealing his Obamacare repeal bill: "If you believe in universal health care, this is your worst nightmare."

I said it on Twitter too, but imagine a political party being so completely filled with hate that their "moderates" see the very concept of healthcare that's available to everyone as a mortal enemy.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:11 AM on September 13, 2017 [41 favorites]


> The left actually wants affordable health care for everybody, and people are thinking about ways to do that.

[On preview: See sotonohito's comment above for elaboration.]


So... I think we agree? Sell it with the bold, damn-the-torpedoes proposal that focuses on end goals, work towards it by developing plans for transitioning to a better system from where are now, being honest about costs, and having answers for the various ways it will be attacked.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:13 AM on September 13, 2017 [5 favorites]


guys, i'm scared—tehhund just faved a comment from this morning

what happens when he finally catches up to our timeliner? i'm picturing total protonic reversal


It's just a sure sign of a slowing churn of political topics. So if you're getting too idle or concerned you're getting complacent, here's something new to chew:

Copronymus: Today in "ICE and the people who support are the goddamn worst": Attorneys Suspect Motel 6 Calling ICE on Undocumented Guests. Apparently they just send their guest list to the local ICE office every night and get $200/person busted. It's not even a single awful franchisee, either, since these locations are corporate-owned.

Corporate-owned Motel 6 means The Blackstone Group, which may mean a connection to the most influential billionaire in U.S. politics (L.A. Times, 2012), Peter George Peterson, whose Wikipedia page is devoid of real content and features a headshot from 1972. Nothing to concern you there, so back to the L.A. Times article by Michael Hiltzik:
Peterson's views are subtly infiltrating the Washington debate — which is why Americans should start getting worried about him.

He isn't content merely to express concern about the federal deficit. His particular targets are Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid, which he calls "entitlement" programs and which he wants to cut back in a manner that would strike deeply at the middle class.

Many beneficiaries of Peterson grants are, like the high school syllabus, initiatives sounding the alarm on the federal deficit. And although everyone agrees that too much borrowing can be bad for the country, the real question is what to do about it.

It's a measure of Peterson's achievement that for Washington Republicans and Democrats alike, the idea that social insurance programs such as Medicare and Social Security desperately and urgently need "reform" has become a foundation stone of the debate, even though Peterson's evidence can be misleading and his contentions questionable. That points to the question of whose interests Peterson is really promoting when he talks about ratcheting back programs that were designed from their inception as universal benefits.

Peterson hasn't flown entirely under the radar; indeed, some of his beneficiaries have started to play down their associations with him. That's the case with the Comeback America Initiative, an anti-deficit program founded by David Walker, a former U.S. comptroller general who headed the Peter G. Peterson Foundation from 2008 to 2010. A significant portion of the group's budget comes from a three-year $3.1-million Peterson Foundation grant. But when Walker embarked on a nationwide bus tour to sound the deficit alarm, he took pains to insist that Peterson had nothing to do with funding it, even though the tour is running under the Comeback America banner.
Or if Peter G. Peterson isn't bad enough, there's Stephen A. Schwarzman, The Blackstone Group CEO and chairman, and a long-time friend of President Donald Trump who provides Trump outside counsel. But apparently he urged Trump to keep the Dreamers program.

Hmm. Neither have clear ties to anti-immigration or hardline deportation stances. Still, Motel 6 is shady from the top down.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:21 AM on September 13, 2017 [29 favorites]


and whoever suggested rolling it out with cheap early treatments but not late expensive treatments covered, which means abortion costs Yes, labor & delivery costs No, great idea and a very nice change from the status quo, should be the fastest coverage expansion ever, let's do it.

That was me, and I also said cover common things so abortion costs Yes, labor & deliver costs also Yes

but I'm still up at 2am because sometimes you realise the person who was Wrong On The Internet is you.

Part of the point of universal coverage is that the government drives down costs of treatment by picking winners and not budging on price. Anything that is currently treated already has the costs worked out, so you can just pick the currently cheapest treatment that works well enough and pay for that. You control costs via the kind of treatment you get, not the thing you are treating, which means OnceUponATime's kids should get their medicine for their genetic disorder and I was wrong about this whole thing.
posted by Merus at 9:22 AM on September 13, 2017 [5 favorites]


Maybe we should be asking Repulicans how they plan to pay for tax cuts, rather than knee cap our own aspirational blueprint statement that has no chance of passing or even getting a hearing.

THIS. The whole trick behind the Obamacare 'repeal' was to gut so much money out of it so that they could get get their tax cuts through reconciliation. But they didn't do that. So they're going to need to find the money somewhere, and you can bet that there are folks very interested in preserving wherever the Republicans are planning to cut from. The tax cuts were probably DOA as soon as the repeal failed, but this argument is the way to ensure it. "How are you going to pay for your tax cut to the Rich?"
posted by leotrotsky at 9:24 AM on September 13, 2017 [12 favorites]


So... I think we agree?

Right. But some people in this thread seem to demand a 900-page white paper covering every single ailment that could ever possibly befall a human being before we even start trying to sell the notion, and that's not practical, necessary or helpful.
posted by Faint of Butt at 9:24 AM on September 13, 2017 [15 favorites]


And I still forgot to talk about how you sell the plan!

No premiums
No co-pay
You walk into your doctor's office or your hospital, they look after you, you walk out again
The only thing you should worry about is getting better
posted by Merus at 9:25 AM on September 13, 2017 [30 favorites]


I don't want to sow alarm needlessly, but according to my calculations there's a strong possibility that if Tehhund catches up with the thread, he will begin to post comments. After so long dwelling in the twilight of the Before-Threads, there's no telling what he'll say.
posted by contraption at 9:34 AM on September 13, 2017 [28 favorites]


What's the mental equivalent of post-marathon vomiting?
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:36 AM on September 13, 2017 [11 favorites]


Michael Flynn 'promoted US-Russian nuclear project from White House'
Investigators examine former Trump adviser’s alleged links to private plan to build Middle East power plants.

Among startling new details unearthed by investigators working for a congressional committee is that the nuclear power plan Flynn was allegedly secretly promoting, during the campaign and once he joined the White House, involved a Russian state-owned company currently under US sanctions.
posted by adamvasco at 9:42 AM on September 13, 2017 [4 favorites]


Mod note: A few comments deleted. Let's not leap into a needless rehash over "identity politics."
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 9:55 AM on September 13, 2017


What's the mental equivalent of post-marathon vomiting?

putting a bumper sticker on the inside of your skull bragging about being a runner?
posted by thelonius at 9:57 AM on September 13, 2017 [4 favorites]


Attorneys Suspect Motel 6 Calling ICE on Undocumented Guests.

I'm pretty sure Tom Bodett would not approve.
posted by Atom Eyes at 9:58 AM on September 13, 2017 [4 favorites]


a 900-page white paper covering every single ailment that could ever possibly befall a human being before we even start trying to sell the notion

Can you see that things are different when the ailment you're wondering about is your ailment? Or the job that seems like it might be on the chopping block is your job? That 900 page white paper is 900 pages where 900 people really really care about 1 page each. That's how it got to be 900 pages.
posted by soren_lorensen at 10:01 AM on September 13, 2017 [4 favorites]


Ugh, the response to the Medicare for All bill is so typically disappointing. A cynical leftist could not come up with a more jaded prediction than what has actually happened.

Of course it's a pie-in-the-sky moonshot at this point, but it is a line in the sand for Democrats to show that they are in fact on the side of the people. And the names on the wrong side of that line are disappointing, if not surprising.
posted by FakeFreyja at 10:05 AM on September 13, 2017 [7 favorites]


The whole trick behind the Obamacare 'repeal' was to gut so much money out of it so that they could get get their tax cuts through reconciliation. But they didn't do that. So they're going to need to find the money somewhere ... "How are you going to pay for your tax cut to the Rich?"

Nope. They don't have to pay for their tax cuts.

There seems to a misunderstanding that reconciliation bills can't increase the deficit. This is incorrect. The Bush tax cuts of 2001 took the budget from Clinton surplus to Bush deficit. There were no spending offsets.

From 2007 to 2011, when Democrats controlled Congress, they did invoke a rule prohibiting deficits from reconciliation bills. But Republicans promptly repealed that provision as soon as they retook control.

There is nothing preventing Republicans from passing a reconciliation bill cutting taxes that is entirely paid for by deficits. In fact, that is precisely what they intend to do. The tax cuts will sunset after 10 years (maybe), but in the meantime they can run up trillions in new debt with the tax cuts, just like they did last time in 2001.

That means the Trump tax cuts cannot be filibustered, no matter how profligate. That also means the tax cuts and increased deficits are inevitable. It's just a question of how bad they will be.
posted by JackFlash at 10:08 AM on September 13, 2017 [9 favorites]


I don't get the opposition to Medicare expansion...is the problem that it doesn't current cover enough things, that its too focused on the needs of elder and disabled care to expand to the general population?

1) It gives health care to THOSE LAZY JERKS WHO DIDN'T EARN IT, by which is meant, the poor ("too lazy to get a job"), the disabled ("drain on society; so sorry, but that's just the way it is"), the elderly ("should've got themselves a retirement account - their bad planning should not hit my pocketbook"), and women ("I am not paying for sluts to have sex").

2) It covers women's health care - after all, why should any MAN have to pay for birth control pills, prenatal care, mammograms, and other services that only SOME Of the population needs? No special treatment! (Attempts to restrict viagra and prostrate treatment will be ignored, with some fascinating dodging text, mostly related to "ugh, polite people don't discuss such things in public.")

3) It doesn't cover the service I care about most, so there's no point in wasting tax dollars on it.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 10:10 AM on September 13, 2017 [21 favorites]


Hmm, maybe this is why Flynn has refused to continue talking:

BREAKING: Mike Flynn’s Son Is Subject of Federal Russia Probe (Carol E. LEE, Julia Ainsly and Ken Dilanian, NBC)
posted by Room 641-A at 10:12 AM on September 13, 2017 [23 favorites]


imagine a political party being so completely filled with hate that their "moderates" see the very concept of healthcare that's available to everyone as a mortal enemy.

That's not even kind of what it's about.

If it was possible to have single-payer health care, with no one paying more taxes, everyone getting better coverage with shorter wait times, people currently receiving excellent employer based health care simply getting salary raises instead - I think that there would be an overwhelming consensus from all wings of all parties in favor of it. Like, why wouldn't you, if it was awesome for everyone with no down sides?

But it does have down sides. It is expensive. You can't save money and still provide to every citizen the concierge care that some of the better plans provide, and the biggest complaint a lot of people have about their insurance is "It doesn't cover X", whether X is "the full prescription cost of a medication" or "fertility treatment". With single payer, that would still be a problem. And you can't provide "good enough care" to everyone in the country without removing the breaks and causing employers to cease to offer their luxury plans. Or, "I have to wait too long to see a provider". That's not going to improve when everyone is competing for the same amount of doctors, and it would take decades to get enough supply through medical school and require reforming how we handle medical school entirely, which will also drive down doctors' salaries. Some people are going to definitely lose if single payer is implemented.

So it's a question of "who should lose, and how much?" And that's where you get into different philosophical underpinnings that drive entire moralities. Not 'they're just full of hate', but things like "are ethics relative" and "do we follow a divine command" and "is it best to follow rules or higher moral principles"?

That stuff absolutely needs to be worked out. Like, we need to have a major debate in this country about how we can work things out when we are working with entirely different - and both generally valid, like, which-ethics-is-best is not a solved problem by philosophers - ideologies. Do we compromise and meet in the middle? Does the dominant ideology win? These 'abstract' questions never get addressed, and they're behind it seems like at least 75% of bitter vitriolic disagreement.
posted by corb at 10:14 AM on September 13, 2017 [9 favorites]


But it does have down sides. It is expensive.

It doesn't have to be expensive. See: the chargemaster.
posted by Melismata at 10:17 AM on September 13, 2017 [2 favorites]


Many countries manage to make it work out cheaper, not more expensive.
posted by Too-Ticky at 10:19 AM on September 13, 2017 [31 favorites]


It's funny how some ideas get the "pass it now and figure it out later" green light, but others (typically those that actually help people) are met with hemming and hawing and need to be microscopically perfect before they are even considered.
posted by FakeFreyja at 10:19 AM on September 13, 2017 [27 favorites]


Matthew Yglesias, Vox: Donald Trump is making the single-payer push inevitable
It’s still difficult to see exactly how we get from Sanders’s squad of high-profile co-sponsors to workable legislation that can command congressional majorities. Sanders, speaking to Vox’s Jeff Stein, called on the United States to “join the rest of the industrialized world” in recognizing health care as a right, but in practice his bill promises a more generous (and thus expensive) benefits package than any foreign country.

But it’s easy to see that Republicans aren’t interested in letting Barack Obama’s signature legislation serve as a stable answer to the question of how American health care is supposed to work. Even with legislative repeal evidently failed, the Trump administration is using its powers to sabotage the functioning of ACA marketplaces, crippling outreach and sign-up efforts while doing nothing to encourage insurers to participate.

So unless Republicans have a sudden change of heart and get Trump to try to make the ACA marketplaces work, Democrats are going to have to keep fighting back. And if Republican administrations are going to actively undermine public-private marketplaces, they have nowhere to go but left — pushing for a larger role for government-provided insurance that can’t be undermined as easily.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:21 AM on September 13, 2017 [6 favorites]


corb: "That's not even kind of what it's about. "

How would we ever know? American conservatives are amoral monsters who can barely tell the truth.
posted by TypographicalError at 10:24 AM on September 13, 2017 [18 favorites]


It may be a delicious irony that the incompetence and narcissism of Trump - and the fractious bigotry of the alt-right - is what actually ends up leading to formal DACA legislation and an expansion of the health care franchise.
posted by darkstar at 10:26 AM on September 13, 2017 [3 favorites]




permission from our corporate masters duh
posted by entropicamericana at 10:30 AM on September 13, 2017 [11 favorites]


That's not even kind of what it's about.

Graham was very direct: "If you believe in universal health care, this is your worst nightmare." Not single-payer, not government-run healthcare, universal healthcare. He chose his words as an attack on the idea of healthcare that's available to everyone, not a specific policy for achieving it.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 10:32 AM on September 13, 2017 [47 favorites]


Room 641-A: BREAKING: Mike Flynn’s Son Is Subject of Federal Russia Probe (Carol E. LEE, Julia Ainsly and Ken Dilanian, N
A former business associate of Michael Flynn's said the younger Flynn had a heavy hand in the day-to-day operations of Flynn Intel Group and served as his father's chief of staff. Those responsibilities included attending meetings with his father and communicating with prospective clients, the former business associate said.

Several legal experts with knowledge of the investigation have told NBC News they believe Mueller, following a classic prosecutorial playbook, is seeking to compel key players, including Flynn and Manafort, to tell what they know about any possible Trump campaign collusion with Russia. Mueller has brought onto his team a federal prosecutor known for convincing subjects to turn on associates. Any potential criminal liability for Michael G. Flynn could put added pressure on his father, these legal experts said.

"Any time a family member is identified as a subject that does increase pressure," said Peter Smith, a former federal prosecutor. "In the typical parent-child relationship the last thing any parent would want is for their child to get in trouble for something they initiated."

That pressure appeared to mount Wednesday, when House Democrats released information they said confirmed that the elder Flynn omitted from his security clearance renewal application in 2016 that he had traveled to the Middle East in 2015 to meet with foreign leaders about a proposal to partner with Russia in a plan to build nuclear reactors in Saudi Arabia.

In a letter (PDF) to Flynn's former business partners who had turned over documents to Congress, Democratic Reps. Elijah Cummings of Maryland and Eliot Engel of New York also accuse Flynn of concealing the trip from background check investigators who interviewed him during that 2016 process. The congressmen, ranking members on the House Oversight and House Foreign Affairs committees respectively, told the former business partners that because "it appears that General Flynn violated federal law" they are turning over their documents to Mueller.
Yesssss....

Instead of competing and overlapping investigations, it sounds like at least this one is a semi-public facing effort that is funneling information to Mueller's team, allowing Mueller's group to remain quiet while the public forums keep the public informed that things are moving forward.
posted by filthy light thief at 10:43 AM on September 13, 2017 [21 favorites]


Again, anecodotally, most of the nurses and doctors I know would leap at that opportunity -- both for their own sake, and for their patients' sake. That might not be universal; but it's also not universal that medical professionals would object to such reforms.

It's easy to say that for an abstraction, but I wonder what their response will be once the actual numbers come in. Furthermore, the opposition doesn't need to be universal - just enough that it becomes a part of the discourse. And I'd argue that would be very likely.
posted by NoxAeternum at 10:44 AM on September 13, 2017 [4 favorites]


I'm not sure what to make of this - the House and Senate have both passed a resolution requiring Trump to denounce hate groups.

On the one hand I'm all "holy crap it was unanimous", but on the other I'm all "....waaaaaait, just how Constitutional is that?"
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:45 AM on September 13, 2017 [10 favorites]


Many countries manage to make it work out cheaper, not more expensive.

Yes, I'd absolutely like to acknowledge that! But the thing is, they make it work out cheaper in part because of tradeoffs. The waiting lists for non-essential care are pretty long, for example, both in England and Canada, our nearest neighbors with more comprehensive healthcare. Even the NHS's target time for being seen after referral - now relaxed - was 18 weeks, while the US's comparative managed care (VA) attempts to see patients within 30 days, or roughly 1/4 the time.

And some people may be willing to accept longer waiting times (or as cjelli notes, less compensation) in exchange for more people being able to access those services. But that doesn't mean ignoring that there are tradeoffs.

In part, I think that's why we're in the place we're in with regards to our current election problems. Politicians have gotten out of the habit of saying, "Yes, all Americans will have to dig deeper in exchange for this thing you want. But it's worthwhile, and so we're going to move forward with it." Instead, there's a lot of "Someone will pay for it, but it definitely won't be you, dear voter!" And that means voters recoil so hard from being asked to suffer that politicians tend to use a lot of chicanery to obscure it, which makes our debates even less meaningful and substantive.
posted by corb at 10:46 AM on September 13, 2017 [8 favorites]


well you know if i can make the tradeoff of not having healthcare at all so someone else doesn't have to wait longer for non-essential care, that's a trade-off i'm willing to make in the name of some nonsensical definition of freedom.

*wipes a tear from his eye, puts his hand over his heart, and softly hums the star-spangled banner*
posted by entropicamericana at 10:50 AM on September 13, 2017 [9 favorites]


This seems pretty good to me. Sarah Kliff at Vox: Bernie Sanders's new Medicare-for-all plan, explained
posted by OnceUponATime at 10:52 AM on September 13, 2017 [4 favorites]


Many countries manage to make it work out cheaper, not more expensive.

Every country manages to make it work out cheaper.
posted by TedW at 10:55 AM on September 13, 2017 [32 favorites]


but on the other I'm all "....waaaaaait, just how Constitutional is that?"

I'm starting to think that this is not a bunch of bright guys. (Obligatory "All the President's Men" quote)
posted by Melismata at 10:57 AM on September 13, 2017 [1 favorite]


And if you look at things like life expectancy and infant mortality, many do it better too.
posted by TedW at 10:57 AM on September 13, 2017 [6 favorites]


I have had long wait times in our for-profit system for both testing and procedures. And I also see Americans begging for health care. The last time I was at my doctor's office, I saw a pregnant woman turned away and denied health care. She was insisting she was covered, and the woman behind the counter, who is no doubt a kind, caring person outside of work, sat there immobile and expressionless as she denied her health care. The last time I went to a pharmacy, I saw three pharmacists on the phone with a health insurance company trying to get them to pay for medicine that a woman, who actually was covered by the company, desperately needed. We all waited and watched the whole thing go down as the woman cried silently. The pharmacists were not successful by the time I got my measly little prescriptions.

But go on and tell me about the long waits in single payer systems again.
posted by vibrotronica at 10:58 AM on September 13, 2017 [81 favorites]


Universal Healthcare Doesn't Mean Waiting Longer to See a Doctor
[W]hat's less talked-about is that we don't actually get better access to medical care for our money. People in many countries that spend far less on healthcare than the U.S. are more likely to say they can usually get a same-day or next-day appointment when they need it, and to say they can get after-hours treatment without going to the ER. This is true for countries that have single-payer systems, like the U.K. (though not Canada), and for many Western European countries that have multi-payer systems like ours.

The one access measure the U.S. performed slightly better on was in the ability to get specialist appointments within two months. However, more than half of all U.S. doctors' visits are paid to a primary care physician, and the most commonly cited reason is a cough, according to the CDC. And even so, people in Switzerland and the U.K. were both still more likely to say they waited four weeks or less for a specialist appointment than Americans were.
5 Myths About Canadian Health Care
Myth #4: Canada has long wait times because it has a single-payer system.

The wait times that Canada might experience are not caused by its being a single-payer system.

Wait times aren’t like cancer. We know what causes wait times; we know how to fix them. Spend more money.

Our single-payer system, which is called Medicare (see above), manages not to have the “wait times” issue that Canada’s does. There must, therefore, be some other reason for the wait times. There is, of course.
In 1966, Canada implemented a single-payer health care system, which is also known as Medicare. Since then, as a country, Canadians have made a conscious decision to hold down costs. One of the ways they do that is by limiting supply, mostly for elective things, which can create wait times. Their outcomes are otherwise comparable to ours.

Please understand, the wait times could be overcome. Canadians could spend more. They don’t want to. We can choose to dislike wait times in principle, but they are a byproduct of Canada’s choice to be fiscally conservative.

Yes, they chose this. In a rational world, those who are concerned about health care costs and what they mean to the economy might respect that course of action. But instead, they attack the system.
The second article is from the AARP, who are not exactly Marxist radicals.
posted by zombieflanders at 10:58 AM on September 13, 2017 [55 favorites]


People are freaking out about tax increases, so let's compare tax increases to private insurance premiums. My wife and I pay about $700 a month for our (pretty good) insurance plan. That's $8400 every year (and increasing!) that just disappears down the hole. If, in exchange for Bernie's plan, our taxes go up by any amount that's less than $8400, we come out ahead!
posted by Faint of Butt at 11:00 AM on September 13, 2017 [43 favorites]


> "That's not even kind of what it's about."

Then why did Graham just say that's what it's about?
posted by kyrademon at 11:01 AM on September 13, 2017 [5 favorites]


I'd treat it as a 100% certainty that there will be a non-zero number of doctors who object to any reforms that might cost them money, if you look to how the discussions of the ACA pre- and post-passage went. And that will absolutely be part of the discourse around any future reforms.

Why does that matter? Are we really so far gone that the leftists in this country believe that a relatively small number of rich people making slightly less money outweighs access to healthcare for the needy?
posted by FakeFreyja at 11:02 AM on September 13, 2017 [3 favorites]


Indeed: a majority of doctors polled even a decade ago, before the ACA, supported a public option. That support has not changed. Most medical professionals want a better system.

One, public option != single payer.

Two, the devil is in the details - again, it's one thing to be for a "better system" in the abstract; and something completely different to actually be for a concrete plan where the impact can actually be laid out.
posted by NoxAeternum at 11:03 AM on September 13, 2017 [6 favorites]


Why does that matter? Are we really so far gone that the leftists in this country believe that a relatively small number of rich people making slightly less money outweighs access to healthcare for the needy?

You pretend that doctors aren't politically powerful at your own peril. Also, good luck trying to portray them as wealthy rentiers in our popular culture, no matter how much that might fit.
posted by NoxAeternum at 11:05 AM on September 13, 2017 [3 favorites]


I'm not sure what to make of this - the House and Senate have both passed a resolution requiring Trump to denounce hate groups.

On the one hand I'm all "holy crap it was unanimous", but on the other I'm all "....waaaaaait, just how Constitutional is that?"


It's a non-binding resolution.
posted by Atom Eyes at 11:05 AM on September 13, 2017 [4 favorites]


> "Even the NHS's target time for being seen after referral - now relaxed - was 18 weeks, while the US's comparative managed care (VA) attempts to see patients within 30 days, or roughly 1/4 the time."

Also notable -- referrals are much less of a thing here in the UK. I have never had one since moving here. Problems are largely expected to be treated by the GP. And my wait time to see my GP has been, compared to my experience in the U.S., negligible.
posted by kyrademon at 11:06 AM on September 13, 2017 [6 favorites]


but on the other I'm all "....waaaaaait, just how Constitutional is that?"

It's just a joint resolution that says, in more flowery language, "the United States government believes that hate groups are bad." It's even less binding than the empty "March 17 shall be National French Toast Day" nonsense we see from legislative bodies all the time, because it doesn't compel any action from the executive at all beyond signing the document.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 11:11 AM on September 13, 2017 [4 favorites]


You pretend that doctors aren't politically powerful at your own peril.

Are they? I don't particularly see that physicians as a block carry any particular weight, especially in this administration, who wants to start an open war with facts and science and the people who use them.
posted by Autumnheart at 11:12 AM on September 13, 2017


Actually, National French Toast Day is November 28.
posted by Melismata at 11:14 AM on September 13, 2017 [2 favorites]


every day is french toast day motherfucker
posted by entropicamericana at 11:15 AM on September 13, 2017 [63 favorites]


The one access measure the U.S. performed slightly better on was in the ability to get specialist appointments within two months.

"How droll," he thinks, as he waits out the six to eight weeks that it'll take a rheumatologist to get around to reviewing his case to see if they want to schedule an appointment six to eight weeks from then, by which time he may or may not actually have health insurance anymore.
posted by MrVisible at 11:21 AM on September 13, 2017 [9 favorites]


Please understand, the wait times could be overcome. Canadians could spend more. They don’t want to.

I think we're arguing past each other, and I think it's indicative of how easy it is to be defensive about these health care debates, particularly when trying to find bipartisan solutions. I don't disagree with you! As noted above, I think it's completely possible to lower wait times for everyone in the US if the government is willing to engage in a larger program of gaining, training, and utilizing medical professionals. I think it's quite possible medical professionals in the US might be willing to accept lower salaries and more rural postings if they didn't have such high debt rates, for example.

I just think that that even if that solution ultimately saves money, it would have a lot of up front costs that would eventually be ameliorated, but might require higher taxes from some people for at least the first several years, and I think it's important to be open and honest about that, and that some people may simply disagree even if it winds up being the 'best' solution, without them necessarily having bad intentions.

I go back and forth myself on whether people are fundamentally good or not, but I think ultimately it's just not something I can ever really know, and the best results come from assuming everyone at least wants to do their version of good and trying to understand them from there.
posted by corb at 11:22 AM on September 13, 2017 [2 favorites]


The AMA is very powerful, (he typed from an exam table in a doctor's office), and had to be brought on board for the ACA to pass. Any bill that looks like it will put downward pressure on physician wages and hospital system profits will face extreme opposition.

Still worth doing over their objections, but we should be ready for that fight.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:24 AM on September 13, 2017 [6 favorites]


cjelli: "Most medical professionals want a better system."

Even the AMA, longtime foes of "socialized medicine", were quite vocal in their condemnation of Trumpcare. I really feel we're at a turning point here.
posted by Chrysostom at 11:25 AM on September 13, 2017 [8 favorites]


There's a three month wait for me to see my gynocologist, just as a matter of course. That's with private insurance I pay about a quarter of my income for. I've been in an emergency state and had a three month wait to see a doctor for my back condition.

When I had a cheap ACA HMO plan and needed an endocrinologist there were only two doctors on my plan in a 200 mile radius, with the closest being 100 miles away.

The other thing to keep in mind is that doctors in the US have become focused on selling ever more expensive treatments to the small group of well-insured people. The number of times I've had a treatment for pain suggested by a doctor with a shrug and a "it might not help but hey, why not try it" is beyond counting. I've had needless surgical procedures done that cost tens of thousands of dollars because the doctor seemed to feel he just needed to do something to justify his existence. (And because of the stigma applied to pain medication that makes any alternative seem like a good idea.)

Any attempt to provide universal health care is going to need to grapple with the idea that all treatments should always be paid for, regardless of their likely effectiveness. Sometimes treatments are expensive because there isn't any cheaper alternative (my husband takes $600/month medication for an autoimmune disease, I get it) and sometimes treatments are expensive because patients just demand doctors keep trying more and more esoteric things to treat their conditions. As a disabled, chronically ill person, I had to accept that sometimes there isn't anything to be done and our society really, really hates that idea.

But I've worked with the poorest of the poor, I've held the hand of a woman who lost a leg to diabetes because she had no way to get basic treatment while she cried. So I know that literally ANYTHING that helps people get more access to healthcare, even the most limited access would be better than what we have now. Medicaid for all would actually be my preferred place to start. Medicaid is limited in where you can go and how many prescriptions you can fill and what it will cover, but by god it's a lifesaver for so many if they can get it.
posted by threeturtles at 11:27 AM on September 13, 2017 [31 favorites]


Elsewhere, a GBA Strategies poll has Jeff Flake at -31 favorable among likely GOP primary voters, and trailing Kelli Ward 58-31 for the nomination. Flake would also lose to likely Dem nominee Kyrsten Sinema 47-40, assuming he could get that far.

GBA is a Dem polling shop, but this is pretty consistent with previous polling. This is reminding me of 2012, when the Indiana GOP decided to go with a lunatic rather than a guaranteed win with Dick Lugar (and of course, lost the general).
posted by Chrysostom at 11:32 AM on September 13, 2017 [13 favorites]


MetaFilter: not politicians, actual people
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 11:38 AM on September 13, 2017 [4 favorites]


I'd like it to remind me of that too. But lunatic stock has risen considerably since then.
posted by Brak at 11:39 AM on September 13, 2017 [1 favorite]


Not to push the thread further into detailed health care territory, but there are models in the U.S. that are working reasonably well: in many regions, Kaiser Permanente has been able to grow robust healthcare networks while remaining a not-for-profit HMO. My experiences in their system, in a region of California that doesn't get the nice stuff, have been consistently terrific, across a variety and scale of health needs and concerns.

While I realize they are far from perfect, in my experience Kaiser demonstrates that there are working models (already here) for large-scale, not-for-profit, centrally-managed health care. When it doesn't work, it can be maddening; but when it does work as intended--and I've needed it to--it's kind of miraculous to experience. (I don't talk about my own health care provisions or experiences often, because they have been mostly positive, and I have comprehensive benefits at no monthly out-of-pocket cost, and that feels like bragging because what should be normal, reliable and regular for every single person in the U.S. to have, is instead a privilege for me and my family to have, and no other evidence beyond that is necessary to demonstrate how totally fucked-up health care in the U.S. is.)
posted by LooseFilter at 11:42 AM on September 13, 2017 [11 favorites]


Politico: Current and former White House aides caught up in the probe are being advised by their attorneys to tell the truth – even if that might hurt the president.
Several of the lawyers representing current and former aides told POLITICO they’re actively warning their clients that any bonds connecting them to Trump won’t protect them from criminal charges if federal prosecutors can nail them for perjury, making false statements or obstruction of justice.
Telling the truth under oath - what a concept!
posted by Chrysostom at 11:45 AM on September 13, 2017 [43 favorites]



every day is french toast day motherfucker


My 2 and a half year old is in his "I don't want to eat anything you want me to eat, but i do want to sample a tiny bit of everything". As such we are struggling to find food for him to eat that doesnt constitute as a snack.

The other day I had a craving for French toast but hadn't acted on it. While at Aldi, I saw some frozen ones and thought "well, this will be cheaper than buying the requirements making it once and then the ingredients going bad" so I bought them. (yes a poor subsitute for the real thing, but I'm short on time these days)

Saturday, while eating them for breakfast we discovered that the wee twain device liked them. This was confirmed this morning when my wife pulled them out and he exclaimed that he wanted them.

So that problem has found a solution.

In conclusion fellow Mefites, I can confirm that indeed, every day IS French Toast Day.

Also in conclusion, I want to leave the world a better place for my kids, including Single payer healthcare. Every day SHOULD be Singe Payer Healthcare Day.
posted by Twain Device at 11:46 AM on September 13, 2017 [24 favorites]


But "Medicare for all" as slogan does not make me stand up and cheer. Because Medicare does not actually cover treatment for my children's condition


Way upthread, but to me "for all" would include children by default.
posted by aspersioncast at 11:47 AM on September 13, 2017 [3 favorites]


The AMA is very powerful, (he typed from an exam table in a doctor's office), and had to be brought on board for the ACA to pass. Any bill that looks like it will put downward pressure on physician wages and hospital system profits will face extreme opposition.

Even the AMA, longtime foes of "socialized medicine", were quite vocal in their condemnation of Trumpcare. I really feel we're at a turning point here.


The AMA wants to preserve doctor salaries and improve the quality of healthcare in the country. It's an industry group, sure, but it's also full of people who care about the patients in the healthcare system. Trumpcare was an unmitigated clusterfuck that would do nothing but harm.

Doctor salaries are not the reason why healthcare is so expensive. It's expensive because it's inefficient and byzantine, and there's a multi-billion dollar insurance industry acting as a leech between relationship between the doctors and the patients. And, trust me, doctors HATE the fucking insurance companies and the bullshit voluminous paperwork that keeps them away from the actual practice of medicine.

You can make the AMA happy, improve outcomes, and decrease the cost of care with a redesigned system, you just need to make sure their issues are addressed in a way that satisfies them.

The trick is figuring out how to route around the health insurance companies and their lobbying dollars. And then what to do with all the folks who are now unemployed. The other insurance companies and markets aren't going to grow big enough to absorb them.
posted by leotrotsky at 11:53 AM on September 13, 2017 [23 favorites]


Sarah Sanders declared that Jemele Hill's tweets should be "outrageous" and a "fireable offense." I wasn't aware that the White House makes HR recommendations to ESPN.

She also doubled down on accusing Comey of crimes, as Sekulow did the same on TV. It's unclear to me why the follow-up question to that isn't "Sarah, why are you threatening a witness in the investigation of this White House?"
posted by zachlipton at 11:56 AM on September 13, 2017 [38 favorites]


The other nice thing about Medicare-For-All (or incrementally, Medicare expanded to the 55-65 group and then downward from there) is that private insurance companies still get to take their cut via Medicare Advantage (Part C) plans which are a much more profitable market for them than the ACA exchanges. So you get some buy-in there.
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:58 AM on September 13, 2017 [4 favorites]


Doctor salaries are not the reason why healthcare is so expensive.

They may not be THE reason, but they definitely are A reason, as a look at doctor salaries around the world will show. And pretending otherwise is what makes this discussion over health care costs hard.
posted by NoxAeternum at 11:59 AM on September 13, 2017 [7 favorites]


The problem with health care costs in the US isn't overpaid doctors or even liability insurance; it's profit-driven medical practices; while CA has a higher cost of living than OK, a service shouldn't cost under $6k in OK but over $200k in CA.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 11:59 AM on September 13, 2017 [14 favorites]


Not to derail the healthcare talk, but it looks like FEMA will be without a deputy administrator just a little bit longer.

Trump FEMA Nominee Withdraws After NBC Questions on Falsified Records
President Donald Trump's nominee for the No. 2 spot at the Federal Emergency Management Agency withdrew from consideration on Wednesday after NBC News raised questions about a federal investigation that found he had falsified government travel and timekeeping records when he served in the Bush administration in 2005.

"Given the distraction this will cause the Agency in a time when they cannot afford to lose focus, I have withdrawn from my nomination," the former nominee, Daniel A. Craig, said in an email to NBC News.
posted by hanov3r at 12:03 PM on September 13, 2017 [13 favorites]


Trump FEMA Nominee Withdraws After NBC Questions on Falsified Records

The Best People.
posted by Twain Device at 12:05 PM on September 13, 2017 [17 favorites]


The problem with health care costs in the US isn't overpaid doctors or even liability insurance; it's profit-driven medical practices; while CA has a higher cost of living than OK, a service shouldn't cost under $6k in OK but over $200k in CA.

Given that those practices are often physician owned, it still comes back to doctors looking at medicine as a means to wealth, which is a primarily American phenomenon.
posted by NoxAeternum at 12:06 PM on September 13, 2017 [6 favorites]


Trumpcare was an unmitigated clusterfuck

I would rather call it "the Republican wealthcare plan;" the president loves seeing his name on things - even negative things - and I don't want to give him the satisfaction. After all, it's not like he had a damn thing to do with writing the bill or even providing guidance for it - he just said "pull the plug on the ACA and I'll sign it, whatever it is."

It's not his health care plan just because he's promising to add a signature.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 12:06 PM on September 13, 2017 [5 favorites]


Given that those practices are often physician owned, it still comes back to doctors looking at medicine as a means to wealth, which is a primarily American phenomenon.

Since medicine school costs are often blamed, there should be a way for new doctors to repay some of those costs via public service. Wouldn't most doctors rather spend a year or two doing that rather than the alternative? Even with high fees, having $200K in student loans hanging over you must be really stressful, even I you're bring home six fat figures a year.
posted by Room 641-A at 12:12 PM on September 13, 2017 [7 favorites]


UPCOMING SPECIAL ELECTIONS - OCTOBER ADDENDUM

(sorry, not sure how I missed this one)

October 24
-- New Hampshire House Strafford 13 -- Casey Conley

HD-Strafford 13 is currently a Dem seat (the incumbent resigned due to work issues); the D won 68-32 in 2014, no R candidate in 2016. Clinton 67-26, Obama won 69-29. There is also a Libertarian candidate in the race.

=> Looks like a safe Dem hold.
posted by Chrysostom at 12:13 PM on September 13, 2017 [6 favorites]


Even with high fees, having $200K in student loans hanging over you must be really stressful, even I you're bring home six fat figures a year.

Yes, it is.
posted by Chrysostom at 12:15 PM on September 13, 2017 [7 favorites]


Since medicine school costs are often blamed, there should be a way for new doctors to repay some of those costs via public service. Wouldn't most doctors rather spend a year or two doing that rather than the alternative? Even with high fees, having $200K in student loans hanging over you must be really stressful, even I you're bring home six fat figures a year.

The whole point of having a new doctor graduate a quarter million or more in debt is so they have an immediate buy-in with the whole idea of medicine as a route to wealth. Part of health care reform must be health education reform.
posted by NoxAeternum at 12:16 PM on September 13, 2017 [37 favorites]


Just so we're all on the same page, we are asserting that it is the government's job, through action or deliberate inaction, to ensure a high salary to people who take out student loans?
posted by FakeFreyja at 12:22 PM on September 13, 2017 [1 favorite]


I think this thread needs a link to Sanders' OPTIONS TO FINANCE MEDICARE FOR ALL

private insurance companies still get to take their cut via Medicare Advantage

Not in Sanders' scheme. Medicate Advantage would go away, as would the 20% cost-share. Medicare would cover costs 100%.

Part of health care reform must be health education reform.

And where is that in Sanders' bill? And what about the doctors who have already finished med school and already are on the hook to pay back those loans?

are we are asserting that it is the government's job, through action or deliberate inaction, to ensure a high salary to people who take out student loans?

We are asserting that the people who took out those loans, as well as the people who depend on their services, are likely to politically resist a change that screws them.

Way upthread, but to me "for all" would include children by default.

I could get into detail (I wrote and then deleted a whole post about medical foods already) but the point I was trying to make is more, "details matter." Saying "children will be covered" is not good enough - covered for what? Right now Medicare does not cover PKU treatment at all because of this history of it being thought to affect only childhood development -- where in Sanders' bill does it add PKU to the list of treated conditions? But even if you do that... The British NHS has always covered children and does cover one treatment for PKU, but the NHS also does not cover my kids' medicine. It is thought that the cheaper, older dietary treatment is good enough. (Even though most people can't stick to it, and it severely impacts quality of life.) I can also go on and on about PKU treatment in Canada, under Medicaid in different states, military Tri-care, and by different private insurance companies in the US, as well as about PKU research. By no means are all Americans as lucky as my family, to get access to the care we have. Online PKU support groups tend to draw from a large geographic area, so I am pretty educated on how this one particular medical problem plays out in different systems. No matter where you go we're a small constituency, and that makes it hard.

But my point is that ultimately my own support for "single payer" is going to depend heavily on whether it makes things better or worse for my family. I mean, you can say that's selfish, but I think that's what most people's support is going to depend on -- how it affects them personally. And the thing about having a plan is that you'll be able to answer people's questions when they ask "how will this affect me?" What I am saying is, right now, Sanders can't tell me how this will affect my family, and I think that applies to millions of other people too, who have different medical issues.

If it's a public option that is going to be hard for insurance companies to compete with and eventually take up all the market share and become the single payer -- I think my chances are better with that system, since they're going to want to offer comparable benefits to compete with the existing insurance companies, and I'll be able to stay on my current insurance at least for the time being if I need to. But if it's "we're definitely going to kick you off your current insurance and we may or may not cover your medication on the new plan," um.... no thanks.
posted by OnceUponATime at 12:30 PM on September 13, 2017 [6 favorites]


Just so we're all on the same page, we are asserting that it is the government's job, through action or deliberate inaction, to ensure a high salary to people who take out student loans?

No.

What is being pointed out is that one of the many factors behind the high cost of health care in the US is the fact that there is an idea that medicine is a path to wealth for doctors, which is in turn fueled by a health education system designed to use debt as a tool to line up the interests of new doctors with the existing ones. Which in turn means that if you're wanting to be serious about controlling costs, you're going to have to break that idea and the systems developed to enshrine it. And that's a bigger fight than people think, especially given that doctors as a profession have a relatively high Q rating.
posted by NoxAeternum at 12:32 PM on September 13, 2017 [5 favorites]


Since medicine school costs are often blamed, there should be a way for new doctors to repay some of those costs via public service.

The Public Health Service Commissioned Corps is already a qualifying organization for public service student loan forgiveness, I think there's a something compelling in the idea to seriously ramp up their mission and funding to reach even more underserved populations and add an even better loan forgiveness incentive, maybe cut the public service loan forgiveness term down from 10 years to five or something for doctors who enlist? You could seriously increase medical access in rural and poverty stricken areas and reduce the student loan burden considerably while giving young doctors a lot of experience, and I wouldn't be surprised if this isn't even that costly, big picture-wise.
posted by jason_steakums at 12:34 PM on September 13, 2017 [10 favorites]


Well, the nursing model is probably insufficient.

I personally think a great way to get more people to enroll in medical education for the "right reasons" is to make it less miserable. Does UK medical school involve back-to-back 20-hour days for years and years, too? I know plenty of bright students who have passed on the idea of medical school because of that.
posted by mosst at 12:34 PM on September 13, 2017 [4 favorites]


Come on, the only reason the Congressional Republicans hate health care is because it involves taxes on the rich. The only reason the rank and file Republicans hate health care is because they've been duped. This isn't rocket surgery, it isn't some principled problem of differing moral codes or whatever, unless you count "the rich should never, ever, have to pay high taxes" as a moral code.

And that, I think is the problem that corb has brought up. In the past she has explicitly stated that the rich paying higher taxes is something she views as a deep moral wrong and something not to be tolerated.

But I think she also knows that just coming out and saying "I oppose universal health care because it'd either involve ruinously high taxes on everyone, or slightly higher taxes on the rich than on everyone else" isn't going to get much sympathy outside the local Republican Party meeting or Ayn Rand reading group.

So instead of being honest she diverts with doubletalk about long wait times or whatever.

So let's be honest. Universal health care is possible without significantly increasing the taxes on anyone but the upper 1%.

It is a matter of values. You just have to ask yourself what you value more: the health of American citizens, or the billions of the upper 1%?

For anyone who claims to be pro-life the choice should be a no brainer. Yet, somehow, the so-called "pro-life" are among the people most vehemently opposed to universal health care. They looked at the choice above and said "I'd rather my fellow citizens die horribly than that the upper 1% pay even a single penny more in taxes."

I find it deeply disturbing to realize that so many of my fellow Americans are so deeply involved in Randism that they view a progressive tax code as anathema, but clearly they do.
posted by sotonohito at 12:36 PM on September 13, 2017 [68 favorites]


Some of the wealthiest people I'm aware of IRL are physicians, and they all seem to have specialized early enough in their careers to amass huge piles of money by age 60ish.

There are plenty of people who go to medical school because they want to be doctors who help people. Some of them are my friends. And they go into primary care, not a specialty. And then they realize that the economic model of the entire system, from the massive education loans hanging over their heads, to the fairly fucked up payment model, to the high malpractice insurance costs, means that they're going to have to do one of two things to sustain a middle-class existence: go into a specialty, or stay in primary care but work for a healthcare network where there are long hours and insane pressure to turn patients over and not spend the time they want to spend focusing on patient care.

The numbers on med school graduates going into primary care fields in this country are not good. They are in fact kind of frightening. It's happening because the economic model of our system actively disincentivizes doctors from doing it.
posted by middleclasstool at 12:40 PM on September 13, 2017 [28 favorites]


> But my point is that ultimately my own support for "single payer" is going to depend heavily on whether it makes things better or worse for my family. I mean, you can say that's selfish, but I think that's what most people's support is going to depend on -- how it affects them personally. And the thing about having a plan is that you'll be able to answer people's questions when they ask "how will this affect me?" What I am saying is, right now, Sanders can't tell me how this will affect my family, and I think that applies to millions of other people too, who have different medical issues.

The naturalization of specifically the idea of family as the prime unit of identification is — and I mean this in real terms rather than "marxist cant is fun" terms — hella bourgeois.

you can only present yourself as prioritizing your family when your family is rich enough and non-oppressed enough to be happy and long-term stable; sure, I know good parents of good kids, but aside from the parents with inheritances coming — the ones with family money — their success depends more upon the broad success of their community/class/whatever than on family, and they identify with those groups rather than with the "family" construct — since like what's the point when most of your family other than you and your kids are epic trainwrecks?
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 12:45 PM on September 13, 2017 [27 favorites]


Sarah Sanders declared that Jemele Hill's tweets should be "outrageous" and a "fireable offense."

By the way, isn't the normal Republican argument that people should never ever be fired for their political beliefs? Turns out that's another IOKIYAR situation.
posted by zachlipton at 12:49 PM on September 13, 2017 [34 favorites]


helpful hint: literally everything is a IOKIYAR situation
posted by entropicamericana at 12:54 PM on September 13, 2017 [43 favorites]


VIRGINIA HOUSE ELECTIONS - HD 26-30

intro
1-5
6-10
11-15
16-20
21-25

===

26th District
Currently GOP seat
R cand: Tony Wilt (incumbent)
D cand: Brent Finnegan

Mostly rural central district on WV border, contains Harrisonburg, 84.0% white. Incumbent first elected in 2010 special. No D ran in 2013 or 2015. Trump won district 51-43.

===

27th District
Currently GOP seat
R cand: Roxann Robinson (incumbent)
D cand: Larry Barnett

Richmond suburban district, 71.7% white. Incumbent first elected in 2010 special. No D candidate in 2013, R won 59-31 in 2015. Trump won district 48-46. Flippable Potential district.

===

28th District
Currently GOP seat
R cand: Robert Thomas
D cand: Joshua Cole

DC exurb district, gerrymandering Fredericksburg, 70.9% white. No D candidate in 2013, R won 61-39 in 2015. Trump won district 48-47. Ballotpedia Race To Watch and Flippable Potential district.

===

29th District
Currently GOP seat
R cand: Chris Collins (incumbent)
D cand: Casey Turben

Mostly rural district on WV border, contains Winchester, 85.9% white. Incumbent first elected in 2015. No D candidate in 2013 or 2015. Trump won district 61-34. There is an independent candidate.

===

30th District
Currently GOP seat
R cand: Nick Freitas (incumbent)
D cand: Ben Hixon

Developing area west of Fredericksburg, contains Culpepper, 78.1% white. Incumbent first elected in 2015. R won 63-37 in 2013, no D candidate in 2015. Trump won district 60-36.

===

Next time: 31-35.
posted by Chrysostom at 1:00 PM on September 13, 2017 [35 favorites]


identify with those groups rather than with the "family" construct

In this particular case, I mean me, my husband (community property, yo) my kids (who also don't have their own separate income or property) and tangentially my mother-in-law (disabled, we help support her) and maybe my parents and sister (currently paying their own medical costs, but somewhat precarious.) My responsibility to them is a lot more direct and less abstract that my responsibility to my economic class in general. You want my vote, I need to be able to figure out how those people are affected.
posted by OnceUponATime at 1:02 PM on September 13, 2017 [6 favorites]


I've said it before, but Chrysostom I am so grateful for your work in these threads. Thank you so much.
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:04 PM on September 13, 2017 [32 favorites]


Saying 'children will be covered' is not good enough - covered for what?

Again, I'm pretty sure this is covered by the "all" part, or it least it should be.
posted by kirkaracha at 1:06 PM on September 13, 2017 [2 favorites]


I'm also incredibly handsome.

Thanks! Some more good potential districts tomorrow. And I'll post a wrapup with the best chance districts, if people are looking to direct some $$$ or volunteer work.
posted by Chrysostom at 1:07 PM on September 13, 2017 [14 favorites]


WSJ has more on Flynn's nuclear power plant scheme, by Christopher S. Stewart, Rob Barry and Shane Harris: Flynn Promoted Nuclear-Plant Project While in White House
White House disclosure forms indicate that Mr. Flynn’s year-and-a-half work on the project ended in December 2016, but Mr. Flynn in fact remained involved in the project once he joined the Trump administration in January, discussing the plan and directing his National Security Council staff to meet with the companies involved, the former staffers said.

A lawyer for Mr. Flynn declined to comment, as did a White House spokeswoman.

The former NSC staffers said Mr. Flynn’s contacts with the former military officers were unusual—happening “outside normal channels”—and raised questions among NSC staff about potential conflicts of interest. His actions were “highly abnormal,” and “not the way things were supposed to go,” said one former NSC staff member.

The activity continued even after NSC ethics advisers directed Mr. Flynn to remove himself from the project, former and current officials said.
Moreover, the lobbying for the plan continued even after Flynn's departure, with meetings with Gary Cohn and Tom Barrack (who doesn't work for the government or anything, yet takes meetings and helped plan the trip to the Middle East).
posted by zachlipton at 1:07 PM on September 13, 2017 [13 favorites]


Yet, somehow, the so-called 'pro-life' are among the people most vehemently opposed to universal health care.

Presumably universal health care would include comprehensive sex education and easy access to birth control, which would reduce abortions, but it would only encourage slutty behavior by slutty slutty sluts.
posted by kirkaracha at 1:15 PM on September 13, 2017 [17 favorites]


I personally think a great way to get more people to enroll in medical education for the "right reasons" is to make it less miserable. Does UK medical school involve back-to-back 20-hour days for years and years, too? I know plenty of bright students who have passed on the idea of medical school because of that.


"The Doctors' duty hours, which were felt to be excessive, were reduced to a maximum average of 56 hours actual work and 72 hours on call duty per week"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junior_doctor#Working_hours

British Junior Doctors are also severely underpaid.

And miserable.
posted by srboisvert at 1:16 PM on September 13, 2017 [4 favorites]


Please enjoy Lin-Manuel Miranda's multi-part musical tour of the Congressional subway system (videos):

Hamilton
Meet Me in St. Louis
Show Boat
A Tribe Called Quest
Oklahoma
posted by zachlipton at 1:17 PM on September 13, 2017 [7 favorites]


British Junior Doctors are also severely underpaid.

And miserable.


And if you don't think that American doctors haven't noticed that, you're not paying attention.
posted by NoxAeternum at 1:34 PM on September 13, 2017


In this particular case, I mean me, my husband (community property, yo) my kids (who also don't have their own separate income or property) and tangentially my mother-in-law (disabled, we help support her) and maybe my parents and sister (currently paying their own medical costs, but somewhat precarious.) My responsibility to them is a lot more direct and less abstract that my responsibility to my economic class in general. You want my vote, I need to be able to figure out how those people are affected.

You are failing to see that you can be just one cough in the face away from tuberculosis if you allow disease to fester in your community because you got your healthcare and others are just 'abstractions'.
posted by srboisvert at 1:36 PM on September 13, 2017 [14 favorites]


You are failing to see that you can be just one cough in the face away from tuberculosis if you allow disease to fester in your community because you got your healthcare and others are just 'abstractions'.

And you're failing to see that OUAT isn't going to sign on to a policy that will put their immediate family at risk, and no amount of attempting to shame them for doing so through appeals to "but think about the wider community" is going to change that. And if shaming is all you have to make the argument, then you are going to fail, and deservedly so. Instead, address the concerns they put forth, because none are unreasonable.
posted by NoxAeternum at 1:42 PM on September 13, 2017 [13 favorites]


You are failing to see that you can be just one cough in the face away from tuberculosis if you allow disease to fester in your community

Look, I support universal health care and view health care as a human right. I have held signs saying as much while marching in parades.

My point is that if you want people to support Bernie Sanders' universal health care plan, you have to make it possible for them to figure out how it will affect them. Should you need examples of what they might be confused about, I am willing to provide some from my own life experience. But it's really not about me. There are millions of others like me, wondering how this will affect them. I think I'll take a break from the thread now.
posted by OnceUponATime at 1:45 PM on September 13, 2017 [9 favorites]


Ted Cruz just went on CNN and talked about porn and sex toys. He says he's "not gonna out the fella" responsible (good), but wants us to know that "it was not me." The staffer apparently "feels terrible" about it.

He, the guy who signed the brief arguing that "there is no substantive-due-process right to stimulate one's genitals for non-medical purposes unrelated to procreation or outside of an interpersonal relationship," also thinks the law he defended banning sex toys was "a stupid law" and "consenting adults should be able to do whatever they want in their bedrooms."

Inexplicably, Dana Bash let him off the mat at this point and moved on to talk about taxes, rather than locking Cruz in the studio and interrogating him about porn for the next 24 hours on live television.
posted by zachlipton at 1:48 PM on September 13, 2017 [34 favorites]


> Doctor salaries are not the reason why healthcare is so expensive. It's expensive because it's inefficient and byzantine, and there's a multi-billion dollar insurance industry acting as a leech between relationship between the doctors and the patients.

I think it's both:

Higher Physician Spending In U.S. Driven By Fees, Not Practice Costs
The finding that US health care fees and spending are higher than in other countries is nothing new. However, the study concludes that the higher fees paid to physicians—rather than factors such as higher practice costs, volume of services, or medical school tuition expenses—are the main drivers of higher US spending on physicians, particularly in orthopedics. As policy makers look for ways to restrain health care spending, findings from the new study could provide impetus for targeting physician fees to reap desired savings.
I'm not sure what's prompting you to object so strongly to the idea that healthcare delivery costs are part of the problem, which I thought was pretty uncontroversial. It's not just the insurers that are making money here.
posted by tonycpsu at 1:50 PM on September 13, 2017 [5 favorites]


He says he's "not gonna out the fella" responsible

but "the fella" has had all of his soup privileges revoked and it totally sucks (for him, the fella, and not Ted Cruz)
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 1:51 PM on September 13, 2017 [2 favorites]


rather than locking Cruz in the studio and interrogating him about porn for the next 24 hours on live television.

What a shame. That would be Must-See-TV.
posted by octobersurprise at 1:51 PM on September 13, 2017 [2 favorites]


(Oh, and the study mentioned in that Health Affairs piece suggests that med school costs aren't the problem, either.)
posted by tonycpsu at 1:52 PM on September 13, 2017


Here is your Ted Cruz discusses porn transcript. The kicker:
Bash: I can't believe I'm going to ask you this, but so you're officially saying Ted Cruz is okay with people buying sex toys?

Cruz: I am saying that consenting adults should be able to do whatever they want in their bedrooms. And you know the media and the left seem obsessed with sex. Let people do what they want.
He turned this into a partisan issue?
posted by zachlipton at 1:56 PM on September 13, 2017 [11 favorites]


I'm not sure what's prompting you to object so strongly to the idea that healthcare delivery costs are part of the problem, which I thought was pretty uncontroversial.

Because demonizing and blaming everything on health insurers is easy. But dealing with doctors, who have a relatively good popular image, is much harder.
posted by NoxAeternum at 1:58 PM on September 13, 2017 [5 favorites]


I am saying that consenting adults should be able to do whatever they want in their bedrooms

Just their bedrooms? Branch out, dude!
posted by kirkaracha at 2:00 PM on September 13, 2017 [10 favorites]


Of course he did.

Fact: humans, a bipedal mammal from planet Earth, like to get down with their bad selves.

Republican fakt: humans getting it on is clearly a byproduct of the media inundating them with hypersexualized media to consume, and we are naturally an abstinent God fearing biped. Now how much are the corporate sponsors paying me for that again?
posted by thebotanyofsouls at 2:03 PM on September 13, 2017 [4 favorites]


I'm with the people who wanted the interviewer to press Cruz a bit on the sex toys part. He was previously on record as arguing that the state did have compelling and valid reasons to prohibit adults from buying or owning sex toys. When did his position change and why? How does that mesh with his prior support for anti-sodomy laws and his current opposition to same sex marriage?
posted by sotonohito at 2:05 PM on September 13, 2017 [26 favorites]


I find it deeply disturbing to realize that so many of my fellow Americans are so deeply involved in Randism that they view a progressive tax code as anathema, but clearly they do.

I see it as more tribalism. Oregon doesn't have a sales tax. Jesus, I can remember the number of budget crises there were growing up and somebody would say sales tax and it like it was this roar of NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

I just learned that Florida has no income tax, which, were it not for the fact that, gosh, poor Florida, I'd be pointing and laughing a lot right now.

It's like anti tax people are hearing sounds that the 'hey tax me and please tax the rich and corporations more' people can't.

And I don't mean that as a slag on either side. It mystifies me, really.
posted by angrycat at 2:05 PM on September 13, 2017 [5 favorites]


He turned this into a partisan issue?

I think he meant "the media" (and the media is surely obsessed with sex), but "the media and the left" is a Republican verbal equivalent of a finger macro, when you type the same thing so many times that any time you type the first few letters you end up auto-completing with something else. As an IT guy who can't type "served" or "serving" without first typing "server" and hitting backspace twice, this is a thing I understand.
posted by hanov3r at 2:07 PM on September 13, 2017 [6 favorites]


Is this the place to point out that the video/tweet he (sorry, I mean his "staffer") liked did not seem to be taking place in a bedroom?
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 2:14 PM on September 13, 2017 [5 favorites]


I'm not anti-tax, but I am against regressive taxation, which sales tax most assuredly is. Just because your state has had funding crises doesn't mean that they should adopt bad, regressive taxation models because it will bring in revenue. On the flip side, Florida should adopt a progressive income tax - and get rid of the regressive taxes they have.
posted by NoxAeternum at 2:19 PM on September 13, 2017 [12 favorites]


Ted Cruz just went on CNN and talked about porn and sex toys. He says he's "not gonna out the fella" responsible

Of course he's not gonna out the fella now. I imagine his, er, fella was already, um, out at the time of the, uh, consumption of the video in question.
posted by Hairy Lobster at 2:20 PM on September 13, 2017 [4 favorites]


> In other words, it's fees, and not salaries, that drive costs -- per that report. Salaries actually tend to reduce costs (it suggests), because they mitigate the perceived need to negotiate high fees. Conflating 'salaries' with 'income' makes this confusing.

I used the word "wages", not "salaries" in my original comment. leotrotsky switched this to "salaries". I find it hard to believe this was an attempt to split hairs on precisely how doctors are paid, but if it was, I was meaning "wages" to whatever portion of what we as patients pay for medical care that goes to into physicians' bank accounts, be that from a salary, fee-for-service, whatever. The more narrow point of which compensation model is better for consumers is interesting, but was not my point in linking to the Health Affairs piece, which makes a number of other important points.
posted by tonycpsu at 2:21 PM on September 13, 2017 [2 favorites]


T jr is on twitter about how burning the flag should be considered hate speech, "if using the wrong pronoun can be considered hate speech by some"
posted by angrycat at 2:22 PM on September 13, 2017 [1 favorite]


T jr is on twitter about how burning the flag should be considered hate speech, "if using the wrong pronoun can be considered hate speech by some"

Someone should explain to that dude the concept of "protected class", and also let him know that 1974 called and wants its dumb wedge issue back
posted by tivalasvegas at 2:31 PM on September 13, 2017 [29 favorites]


T jr is on twitter about how burning the flag should be considered hate speech

1) It's constitutional.
2) How many times ever has anyone burned the American flag? It's not like there are swarms of people burning flags every day. This is a made-up outrage like the War on Christmas.
posted by kirkaracha at 2:32 PM on September 13, 2017 [39 favorites]


CNN: Exclusive: Rice told House investigators why she unmasked senior Trump officials
Former national security adviser Susan Rice privately told House investigators that she unmasked the identities of senior Trump officials to understand why the crown prince of the United Arab Emirates was in New York late last year, multiple sources told CNN.

The New York meeting preceded a separate effort by the UAE to facilitate a back-channel communication between Russia and the incoming Trump White House.

The crown prince, Sheikh Mohammed bin Zayed al-Nahyan, arrived in New York last December in the transition period before Trump was sworn into office for a meeting with several top Trump officials, including Michael Flynn, the president's son-in-law, Jared Kushner, and his top strategist Steve Bannon, sources said.

The Obama administration felt misled by the United Arab Emirates, which had failed to mention that Zayed was coming to the United States even though it's customary for foreign dignitaries to notify the US government about their travels, according to several sources familiar with the matter. Rice, who served as then-President Obama's national security adviser in his second term, told the House Intelligence Committee last week that she requested the names of the Americans mentioned in the classified report be revealed internally, a practice officials in both parties say is common.
This meeting came shortly before the UAE brokered the Seychelles meeting in January. This is the situation Nunes breathlessly held up as evidence of wrongdoing.
posted by zachlipton at 2:33 PM on September 13, 2017 [22 favorites]


It's not like there are swarms of people burning flags every day.

If only.
posted by Rust Moranis at 2:34 PM on September 13, 2017 [5 favorites]


Trump is a moron and burning the flag should not be considered hate speech but "the Supreme Court says it is constitutional" is something that can be said about lots of things that many people on Metafilter would consider hate speech.
posted by Justinian at 2:35 PM on September 13, 2017 [4 favorites]


Cruz: I am saying that consenting adults should be able to do whatever they want in their bedrooms. And you know the media and the left seem obsessed with sex. Let people do what they want.

Said the politician who spent his campaign railing against both a "crisis" (his word) of gay marriage and of trans women using "little girls'" bathrooms.

Cruz received 7.8 million votes in last year's Republican Primaries. And when he closed his campaign he had 553 pledged delegates. In part because he's homophobic and transphobic.
posted by zarq at 2:35 PM on September 13, 2017 [20 favorites]


Bash: "Yes, folks are interested in sexual peccadillos - it's a part of being a human being. But what makes some sexual peccadillos particularly compelling and attention-demanding - especially among political actors - is when they illustrate a degree of fundamental hypocrisy.

So, for example, when someone who has made a reputation of attacking sexual liberty then asks for people to overlook his or her own sexual liberation. Or when someone has made political hay about denying others the right to masturbate or use sex toys then asks that we all overlook it when a member of his own team is doing the same. There is a fundamental question of integrity that is raised when this happens, don't you think, Senator? Or should the media overlook hypocrisy from an elected official?"

[sadly, fake]
posted by darkstar at 2:54 PM on September 13, 2017 [5 favorites]


It's not like there are swarms of people burning flags every day.

There have been times that there were, though. Which is why laws were passed to say "don't do that".
posted by hanov3r at 2:56 PM on September 13, 2017


I know a fella who burned an American flag at a Fourth of July party when I was in college, but this being the ridiculous Eighties and my friend being a very silly man, he chose a little one, like on a stick that you'd wave? And it was made of plastic and immediately went up with a WHOOMPF and melted all over his hand and much hilarity was had by most. I guess what I'm saying is, The Flag can take care of itself.
posted by thebrokedown at 2:59 PM on September 13, 2017 [11 favorites]


The colors don't run. But they may melt.
posted by zarq at 3:00 PM on September 13, 2017 [5 favorites]


538: Is Hillary Clinton Right About Why She Lost?
natesilver: I’m repeating myself here, but a lot of the admonitions that Clinton is getting from the press are about the media pre-empting discussions that could make them look bad and call into question their editorial decision-making.

perry: We should talk about that. Why can’t The New York Times say “we covered Clinton’s e-mails too much”? The Times admitted at some point that the weapons of mass destruction coverage ahead of the Iraq War was bad. The paper survived that, and my guess is gained credibility from it.

It’s obviously true. They must know that.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 3:05 PM on September 13, 2017 [60 favorites]


you know what is a real desecration of the flag? people who turn their backs on the values it is supposed to embody. jingoists who wraps themselves in it to sell war, hucksters who wrap themselves in it to sell us stuff we don't need, fascist politicians who use it to stiffle dissent

those things, to me, are far more profane than anything you could physically do to the flag
posted by entropicamericana at 3:06 PM on September 13, 2017 [60 favorites]


There have been times that there were, though.

Cite?
posted by kirkaracha at 3:08 PM on September 13, 2017 [1 favorite]


Ted Cruz just went on CNN and talked about porn and sex toys. He says he's "not gonna out the fella" responsible (good), but wants us to know that "it was not me." The staffer apparently "feels terrible" about it.

Anyone who goes on the air to say "someone who wasn't me was using my Twitter account" should lose their verified account status.

The point of that blue checkmark is that readers know who posted that content. If you're handing around your login to other people, your account shouldn't be considered verified.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 3:15 PM on September 13, 2017 [47 favorites]


Cite?

Two Centuries of Burning Flags, A Few Years of Blowing Smoke
Mr. Goldstein, of Ann Arbor, Mich., who teaches political science at Oakland University in Rochester, Mich., says he was able to turn up records showing "fewer than 45 reported incidents of flag burnings . . . in all of American history between the adoption of the United States flag in 1777 and the Texas v. Johnson Supreme Court decision in 1989," which declared that politically motivated flag desecration is protected under the First Amendment. "About half of those incidents occurred in a single five-year period, 1966 to 1970, and were overwhelmingly associated with protests against the Vietnam War," he said.
It's distinctly possible that I read "swarms of people... every day" as hyperbole intended to convey "this is a thing that happened more than rarely", and 20-odd times in a few years feels like a little more than 'rarely'.
posted by hanov3r at 3:18 PM on September 13, 2017 [1 favorite]


The reason flag-burning (of your own country's flag) should not be considered hate speech isn't "it's constitutional;" it's not hate speech because it doesn't target anyone. If it is an insult, it is at worst aimed at a pack of abstract ideals. (At best, aimed at propaganda and the hypocrisy of claiming those ideals while acting as if they were irrelevant.)

There isn't anyone who can reasonably step up and say, "I, personally, would be afraid this person would attack me, if we were in near proximity, because they burned a flag." Burning a flag doesn't target any ethnic, cultural, or other demographic group of people.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 3:19 PM on September 13, 2017 [30 favorites]


Thanks, hanov3r! I couldn't find any numbers.

So, something that happened 45 times between 1777 and 1989. Even if it's happened 45 times since 1989, I don't think something that doesn't harm anyone and has happened less than 100 times in the history of the country isn't worth fussing about.
posted by kirkaracha at 3:32 PM on September 13, 2017 [1 favorite]


There isn't anyone who can reasonably step up and say, "I, personally, would be afraid this person would attack me, if we were in near proximity, because they burned a flag." Burning a flag doesn't target any ethnic, cultural, or other demographic group of people.

This, incidentally, is why the right is so keen to turn any public display of non-patriotism into Disrespecting The Troops. If flag = military then by burning it (or kneeling during the anthem, or what have you) you're not just making a statement about the condition of our country, you're attacking our loyal soldiers!!111!1eleventyone
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 3:35 PM on September 13, 2017 [4 favorites]


you know what is a real desecration of the flag?

Aw, I was all set to say "People who fart in pants made of the American flag or sweat in shirts made of the American flag, or sit their asses down in lawn chairs made of the American flag, or tie bandanas of the American flag around their greasy heads," but I like your answer better, entropicamericana.
posted by Rykey at 3:37 PM on September 13, 2017 [23 favorites]


Remember how Louise Linton was all "Aw!! Did you think this was a personal trip?! Adorable! Did you think the US govt paid for our honeymoon or personal travel?! Lololol." ? Turns out they tried to make the government do just that.

ABC News: Treasury Secretary Mnuchin requested government jet for European honeymoon
Secretary Steven Mnuchin requested use of a government jet to take him and his wife on their honeymoon in Scotland, France and Italy earlier this summer, sparking an “inquiry” by The Treasury Department's Office of Inspector General, sources tell ABC News.

Officials familiar with the matter say the highly unusual ask for a U.S. Air Force jet, which according to an Air Force spokesman could cost roughly $25,000 per hour to operate, was put in writing by the secretary's office but eventually deemed unnecessary after further consideration of by Treasury Department officials.

Senator Ron Wyden (D-Oregon), the top Democrat on the Senate Finance Committee, said in an interview with ABC News that Mnuchin's request for a government jet on his honeymoon defies common sense.

"You don't need a giant rulebook of government requirements to just say yourself, 'This is common sense, it's wrong,'" Wyden said. "That's just slap your forehead stuff."
posted by zachlipton at 3:51 PM on September 13, 2017 [53 favorites]


*46 times. I can't believe I was there to witness such a rarity!

So when the whole Flag Burning Amendment was such a big deal, I couldn't really get my head around it. It brought me to a philosophical quandary. What, in fact, IS an American flag? What if I made it myself? What if I made it with one fewer stars? Two fewer? At what point am I burning a symbol of the symbol? The whole thing was ridiculous to me, and I was only a simple teenager.
posted by thebrokedown at 4:01 PM on September 13, 2017 [6 favorites]


the 538 take on Clinton's evaluation of her loss is pretty good. And I don't say that because it agrees with me on almost every point! Mostly.
posted by Justinian at 4:05 PM on September 13, 2017 [8 favorites]


What, in fact, IS an American flag? What if I made it myself? What if I made it with one fewer stars? Two fewer? At what point am I burning a symbol of the symbol?

It's only a True American FlagTM if it was made by children in an overseas sweatshop and then blessed by a southern televangelist.
posted by Atom Eyes at 4:08 PM on September 13, 2017 [13 favorites]


I have been burning to burn something down. I don't know of any other way to cope with this level of.....

Needing to burn something down. So, after all the summer holidays were getting started and the mini American flags appeared in bundles of 12 to 20 in dollar stores I scooped them up and I have regular, private flag-burning parties in my backyard. My container garden is dotted with the burned staffs and tattered remains of about two dozen flags now, and I look at them and feel calm and centered. Best therapy I have ever found. (I have never actually pledged alligance to a flag, so this manner of protest fits with my life-long resistance to tokens.)

Here's the thing though, and you can skip this antidote quite easily. Once I had decided to do this I went to Goodwill and found huge bundles of small American flags the type that you would put on gravestones. I was elated; a dollar for up to 50 flags that I could burn all summer long?! I looked to my left, and I looked to my right, and there was a veiled woman on one side of me and an elderly Asian man on the other. I walked away from the flags because I was horrified they were going to think I was the type of person that bought American flags to display. That's when I knew America was over for me.
posted by ezust at 4:09 PM on September 13, 2017 [23 favorites]


Senate Judiciary’s meeting with Trump Jr. scheduled for Thursday (Karoun Demirjian, WaPo)
The Senate Judiciary Committee will meet with Donald Trump Jr. on Thursday to discuss the Trump campaign’s contacts with Russia, according to three Democratic members of the committee.

The meeting, which is expected to be comprehensive, is the first opportunity that members of the committee will have to grill someone from President Trump’s inner circle about the campaign’s alleged attempts to engage with Kremlin surrogates, during a period when the intelligence community believes Russia was taking steps to influence the 2016 presidential election in favor of Trump’s candidacy.
posted by Room 641-A at 4:16 PM on September 13, 2017 [5 favorites]


Shkreli ordered jailed for online bounty on Hillary Clinton's hair[real]

Matsumoto ruled that Shkreli’s Sept. 4 post, made shortly before Clinton embarked on a book tour, showed he posed a danger to the public. She rejected arguments by Shkreli’s lawyer, Benjamin Brafman, that the post was protected free speech.

“This is a solicitation of assault in exchange for money,” the judge said. “That is not protected by the First Amendment.”.....

Shkreli, who earned the nickname “Pharma Bro” for exploits that included increasing to the price of a life-saving drug by 5,000 percent, said in a letter to Matsumoto on Tuesday that the post was meant as satire.

Brafman repeated that on Wednesday, but Matsumoto was not convinced.

“What’s funny about that?” she demanded.

posted by thelonius at 4:19 PM on September 13, 2017 [79 favorites]


those things, to me, are far more profane than anything you could physically do to the flag

Anything?
posted by Brak at 4:33 PM on September 13, 2017 [3 favorites]


They are savaging Clinton on CNN with regard to her book and interviews and why she lost. I really think there must be a lot of truth to the 538 take that a lot of this pushback is a combination of misogyny and a pre-emptive strike so they don't have to face their own culpability.
posted by Justinian at 4:39 PM on September 13, 2017 [41 favorites]


Mod note: Couple comments deleted. No reruns of that particular pile-on, please. Thanks.
posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 4:50 PM on September 13, 2017 [1 favorite]


What, in fact, IS an American flag? What if I made it myself? What if I made it with one fewer stars? Two fewer? At what point am I burning a symbol of the symbol?

My thought was always: What happens to those little sticker-flags on toothpicks that show up on sandwiches in early July? What about school notebooks with flags printed on them? Postcards?

Any legal definition of "American Flag" is going to have problems.

The flag-burning-is-evil crowd didn't care about that; they're in the group that believes only the "reasonable" interpretations would be enforced, and OF COURSE nobody would be arrested for using flag-colored post-it notes as kindling.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 4:59 PM on September 13, 2017 [4 favorites]


The flag-burning-is-evil crowd didn't care about that; they're in the group that believes only the "reasonable" interpretations would be enforced, and OF COURSE nobody would be arrested for using flag-colored post-it notes as kindling.

You know this all becomes a moot point if we had proper regulations on flame retardants in flags.
posted by Talez at 5:03 PM on September 13, 2017 [7 favorites]


A leak about the anti-leak program? Delicious. And Chris Geidner got the memo: Trump Administration Launches Broad New Anti-Leak Program
The top US national security official has directed government departments and agencies to warn employees across the entire federal government next week about the dangers and consequences of leaking even unclassified information.

The Trump administration has already promised an aggressive crackdown on anyone who leaks classified information. The latest move is a dramatic step that could greatly expand what type of leaks are under scrutiny and who will be scrutinized.

In the memo about leaks that was subsequently obtained by BuzzFeed News, National Security Adviser H.R. McMaster details a request that “every Federal Government department and agency” hold a one-hour training next week on “unauthorized disclosures” — of classified and certain unclassified information.

The request includes “[s]uggested training materials” — provided by the National Counterintelligence and Security Center — that include the 15-minute C-SPAN video of Attorney General Jeff Sessions’ August news conference about leaks and a 6-minute Fox News video of an interview of the National Counterintelligence and Security Center’s director, William Evanina.
...
McMaster’s memo is directed to a much larger group, including virtually every senior official in the federal government — from the vice president and cabinet heads to the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff to the director of the Peace Corps. Perhaps more importantly, the memo asserts that “unauthorized disclosure” of both classified and “controlled unclassified” information “causes harm to our Nation and shakes the confidence of the American people.”

The McMaster memorandum itself likely would be seen as a type of such a “controlled unclassified” document, as it is marked: “UNCLASSIFIED//FOUO [For Official Use Only].”
posted by zachlipton at 5:07 PM on September 13, 2017 [11 favorites]


What are these great Cadillac plans we are all in danger of losing with universal health care? I work at a huge, rich, company and pay $12,000 per year for my family's health insurance. It has a $2,800 deductible. This insurance is currently refusing to pay for medically necessary, prescribed by my doctor, care.

You're gonna love paying income taxes on your employer's contribution, then, after teh tax reform.
posted by thelonius at 5:09 PM on September 13, 2017 [1 favorite]


Let's take a minute to properly appreciate Judge Matsumoto. From the linked article:

A U.S. judge on Wednesday ordered Martin Shkreli to be jailed while he awaits sentencing for securities fraud...Matsumoto rebuffed Brafman’s repeated pleas to reconsider her decision, or at least give Shkreli until Monday to prove he was not a danger.

The judge also scheduled Shkreli’s sentencing for Jan. 16.


Ho, ho, ho.
posted by snuffleupagus at 5:10 PM on September 13, 2017 [17 favorites]


They are savaging Clinton on CNN with regard to her book and interviews and why she lost. I really think there must be a lot of truth to the 538 take that a lot of this pushback is a combination of misogyny and a pre-emptive strike so they don't have to face their own culpability.

You can see it in every Maggie Haberman tweet, this is worse than when they sold us the Iraq war, and they're desperate to pretend they had no part in making the 600 straight days* of editorial decisions that gave us Trump.

* - yes, Peter Daou, but that number feels pretty damn accurate to me and I'm running with it until proven otherwise.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:15 PM on September 13, 2017 [26 favorites]


Going to so-called jail! The judge is, I think, quite rightly considering the context of this guy probably having online followers, who might well be drawn from the same kind of pool that gave us the dude showing up with a gun at the Comet Pizza, immediately before Clinton undertakes a series of public appearances. While extended the privilege of remaining free before sentencing, when, I presume, they keep you on a pretty tight leash, the guy does something that is in fact dangerous to the community. And then pleads to prove that what, it was really really only for the lulz?
posted by thelonius at 5:16 PM on September 13, 2017 [2 favorites]


Mod note: Folks, let's keep the Clinton-book stuff out of this thread as much as possible - it's the sort of thing that can have it's own thread but has the potential to totally derail these general ones.
posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 5:16 PM on September 13, 2017 [6 favorites]


ELECTIONS NEWS

** 2018 Senate:
-- Mentioned upstream, another stunningly bad poll for Jeff Flake, showing him losing the GOP nomination 58-31 to nutbar Kelli Ward.

-- Heidi Heitkamp has finally formally declared her candidacy to run again in ND.
** NJ gov -- New Quinnipiac poll shows Dem Murphy still far in the lead, 58-33. There had been some thought that Sen Menendez's corruption trial might drag Murphy down, but that doesn't seem to be happening.

** VA gov -- The National Democratic Redistricting Committee is dumping $500k on Northam campaign.

** 2018 House -- 538: GOP retirements good, not great, for Dem chances.

** Odds & ends -- Dems have launched a new super PAC aimed at flipping state legislatures.
posted by Chrysostom at 6:03 PM on September 13, 2017 [31 favorites]


Y'all, I think Tehhund has made it to the end! I am stupidly giddy about it.
posted by thebrokedown at 6:07 PM on September 13, 2017 [29 favorites]


No Tehhund left behund.
posted by Behemoth at 6:10 PM on September 13, 2017 [35 favorites]


Next thread is yours, Tehhund.
posted by SPrintF at 6:16 PM on September 13, 2017 [28 favorites]


What are these great Cadillac plans we are all in danger of losing with universal health care?

They do exist --- I have one. I pay very little and have an out-of-pocket max of $2k with far far more than that in medical expenses, so it works very well.

That said, (a) I still think we need reform because its not reasonable that very few people have this kind of care, and (b) even if every person with a "Cadillac" plan voted for a non-universal-healthcare-candidate it would make no difference, as there are very few of us. And that won't happen either, as the majority of people at my company aren't going to vote Republican.
posted by thefoxgod at 6:32 PM on September 13, 2017 [2 favorites]


The problem with improving access to health care is not in the specifics, it's in the moral character of those who feel that others don't deserve it. Bigotry and classism are America's number one and two health care problems. I fear they are terminal.
posted by Ogre Lawless at 6:44 PM on September 13, 2017 [15 favorites]


Metafilter means no Tehhund gets left behind.
posted by Dashy at 6:47 PM on September 13, 2017 [12 favorites]




*turns, curses, spits*
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:16 PM on September 13, 2017 [8 favorites]


Schumer and Pelosi had dinner with Trump. They say they "agreed to enshrine the protections of DACA into law quickly, and to work out a package of border security, excluding the wall, that's acceptable to both sides." Of course, none of the participants in that meeting actually control Congress's agenda, so whether or how any of that becomes law is something about which I have no clue. They also encouraged Trump to keep making CSR payments for health care, and will continue to do so. They ate Chinese food and chocolate pie (more non-food details on the meeting in that WaPo story).

McConnell, meanwhile, is talking about ending the practice of blue slips for appellate nominees, a longstanding practice that requires Senators to approve judicial nominees in their home states. Democrats honored the practice, allowing Republicans to block many of Obama's judicial appointments. Ending it would mean all those appointments could be quickly filled over the objection of Democrats.

Fans hang racist sign on left field wall at Fenway Park

I've been looking at that sign for like an hour and have absolutely no idea if it is pro or anti racism. Thanks 2017.
posted by zachlipton at 7:16 PM on September 13, 2017 [30 favorites]


Fans hang racist sign on left field wall at Fenway Park

Anti-racism sign actually. Sox fans have enough to deal with without being accused of racism (well, more racism than they've already been accused of, that is).
posted by adamg at 7:18 PM on September 13, 2017 [18 favorites]


Tomorrow's news today:

"Schumer and Pelosi had a late brunch with Trump. They say they agreed on a deal to implement single-payer. In exchange, a 3 foot long section of the wall will be built. Trump was reluctant, but agreed to the deal when Schumer and Pelosi offered to build the wall section 500 feet tall."
posted by tonycpsu at 7:23 PM on September 13, 2017 [15 favorites]


Trump always agrees with the last people to talk to him, so of course he's ready to do a "deal" with Democrats tonight after eating dinner. He's a racist See-and-Say with no conscious thought process.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:26 PM on September 13, 2017 [6 favorites]


I've been looking at that sign for like an hour and have absolutely no idea if it is pro or anti racism.

Yeah, seriously. And whatever side it's on, it's . . . not wrong.
posted by CommonSense at 7:27 PM on September 13, 2017 [15 favorites]


Pretty sure that's 100% an anti-racism sign. And it ain't wrong and that is a super uncomfortable fact for the majority of I'm-not-racist-but racists.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:33 PM on September 13, 2017 [15 favorites]


Schumer and Pelosi had dinner with Trump. They say they "agreed to enshrine the protections of DACA into law quickly, and to work out a package of border security, excluding the wall, that's acceptable to both sides."

That's fantastic, what with Trump being a stand-up decent human with integrity who always delivers on his agreements and never randomly changes course just to fuck with people. Kill me now, please.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:33 PM on September 13, 2017 [8 favorites]


I've been looking at that sign for like an hour and have absolutely no idea if it is pro or anti racism.

Answering the question might take reading up on the history of the Red Sox - there's a reason Jackie Robinson signed with the Dodgers after trying out for the Sox - and in that context (and with the more recent Adam Jones incident in mind), I thought it was definitely on the anti side.
posted by adamg at 7:34 PM on September 13, 2017 [3 favorites]


Also, if your sign can be reasonably interpreted as either racist or anti-racist, you need to make a better sign.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:35 PM on September 13, 2017 [16 favorites]


And let the fighting begin as everything goes to hell over this dinner.

@PressSec: While DACA and border security were both discussed, excluding the wall was certainly not agreed to.

Schumer's comms director responds by saying "The President made clear he would continue pushing the wall, just not as part of this agreement."

Meanwhile, AP's Erica Werner reports that she has a source saying that the deal they agreed to isn't just putting a form of DACA into law; it's the DREAM Act, which gives a path to citizenship for dreamers. This is a woah if true situation.
posted by zachlipton at 7:35 PM on September 13, 2017 [9 favorites]


I've been looking at that sign for like an hour and have absolutely no idea if it is pro or anti racism. Thanks 2017.

I read it as an anti-racism sign because it is both factually and grammatically correct.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 7:35 PM on September 13, 2017 [64 favorites]


Schumer and Pelosi had a late brunch with Trump.

So, a lunch, then.
posted by dirigibleman at 7:37 PM on September 13, 2017 [33 favorites]


So, a lunch, then.

Yes, but Trump wanted Fruity Pebbles, so it's a brunch.
posted by rhizome at 7:40 PM on September 13, 2017 [22 favorites]


> This is a woah if true situation.

[Ron Howard] It wasn't.
posted by tonycpsu at 7:40 PM on September 13, 2017 [3 favorites]


The problem is, one can't tell if the sign is stating a fact or expressing approbation of that fact.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:40 PM on September 13, 2017 [1 favorite]


Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi are the Trump whisperers now? I wonder what their prep for this was like. That would be fascinating to know.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 7:40 PM on September 13, 2017 [5 favorites]


Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi are the Trump whisperers now? I wonder what their prep for this was like. That would be fascinating to know.

Playing with their grandchildren?
posted by mikelieman at 7:43 PM on September 13, 2017 [26 favorites]


what about the flag people of Tau Ceti VII though
posted by um at 7:45 PM on September 13, 2017 [1 favorite]


McConnell, meanwhile, is talking about ending the practice of blue slips for appellate nominees, a longstanding practice that requires Senators to approve judicial nominees in their home states.

Honestly, it sounds like a silly practice, but if it's a tool right now, I say defend it to the utmost.
posted by corb at 7:46 PM on September 13, 2017 [1 favorite]


I'm shocked Republicans are even honoring blue slips at all right now, they didn't under Bush after retaking control of the Senate in 2002, Patrick Leahy restored the practice when Democrats took back over in 2006, in a textook case of Democratic unilateral disarmament that led to Obama appointed Republican judges.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:52 PM on September 13, 2017 [22 favorites]


what about the flag people of Tau Ceti VII though

This is Ceti Alpha V!!!
posted by entropicamericana at 7:59 PM on September 13, 2017 [13 favorites]


agreed to enshrine the protections of DACA into law quickly

This just shits on Obama, is the thing.

And Trump passing single payer would shit on Hillary and Obama simultaneously.
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 8:00 PM on September 13, 2017 [1 favorite]


Patrick Leahy restored the practice when Democrats took back over in 2006, in a textook case of Democratic unilateral disarmament

Well, restoring it in 2006 was probably wise. But not re-dropping it in 2009, sure.
posted by thefoxgod at 8:02 PM on September 13, 2017


🤢🤮 This represents my feelings on #45 [real] and is in no way a joke on post-marathon puking [fake].

Next thread is yours, Tehhund.
posted by SPrintF at 9:16 PM on September 13


I wish I had the chops to make the next PoliticFilter / #45 post on the Blue, but a lurker has to know his limits – I'll leave that to the experts.

On a more serious note, thanks for all the good discussion in this thread – we had a few disagreements but all of the viewpoints are valuable. This is why I read the Blue.

Finally, I appreciate all the support, and for that reason I think honesty is called for…
posted by Tehhund at 8:05 PM on September 13, 2017 [123 favorites]


And Trump passing single payer would shit on Hillary and Obama simultaneously.

oooh someone please whisper that in his ear repeatedly

I'm sure Hillary and Barack will be fine with using 4-year-old-level reverse psychology on this idiot.
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:07 PM on September 13, 2017 [22 favorites]


Oh! And I finally have something for this!

MetaFilter: What's the mental equivalent of post-marathon vomiting?

Metafilter: every day is french toast day motherfucker
posted by Tehhund at 8:07 PM on September 13, 2017 [36 favorites]


> Sarah Sanders declared that Jemele Hill's tweets should be "outrageous" and a "fireable offense." I wasn't aware that the White House makes HR recommendations to ESPN.

Charlie Pierce's piece on the fiasco is very much worth reading.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:16 PM on September 13, 2017 [14 favorites]


You can kind of see the vague outline of this weird hypothetical Trumpian form of government if you look at the Pelosi and Schumer negotiations - this kind of fucked up thing where Pelosi/Schumer and Ryan/McConnell have to try to bring him the thing that will get him the best press or make him feel like he one upped Obama, so he'll lean on the Trump-Aid drinking block of votes comprised of those congressional Republicans who will always, no matter what, vote how he tells them to push it through. His instinctive drive for adulation and power would understand that. Like beyond the autocracy and kleptocracy we were all expecting into this, I dunno, egotocracy?
posted by jason_steakums at 8:17 PM on September 13, 2017 [4 favorites]


Last-person-talked-with-cracy.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:18 PM on September 13, 2017 [4 favorites]


"Last-person-talked-with-cracy."

Telikostracy?
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 8:21 PM on September 13, 2017 [3 favorites]




There have been times that there were, though.

Cite?


when i came of age there were abundant flag burnings and bank bombings and violence.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 8:23 PM on September 13, 2017 [2 favorites]


"About half of those incidents occurred in a single five-year period, 1966 to 1970, and were overwhelmingly associated with protests against the Vietnam War"

ayuh.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 8:26 PM on September 13, 2017


@realDonaldTrump: China has a business tax rate of 15%. We should do everything possible to match them in order to win with our economy. Jobs and wages! (10:22 PM - 13 Sep 2017)

This is false. It's 25% for most businesses, 15% for businesses meeting special criteria such as certain qualifying tech companies. It is a lie he tells repeatedly.
posted by zachlipton at 8:26 PM on September 13, 2017 [36 favorites]


For someone who doesn't drink, he sure can drunk tweet better than anyone.
posted by perhapses at 8:27 PM on September 13, 2017 [26 favorites]


Breitbart is flipping out, calling him "Amnesty Don."

Hannity is somehow blaming Mitch McConnell despite that making absolutely no sense (it took him two tries to get this tweet out): "Well Mitch GREAT JOB! You failed so miserably with Healthcare and "excessive expectations" now @POTUS has to deal with Dem Leaders!"

Steve King is being Steve King: @realDonaldTrump If AP is correct, Trump base is blown up, destroyed, irreparable, and disillusioned beyond repair. No promise is credible.

I have incredibly little faith that actual legislation to protect 800,000 people will come out of this process, but for tonight, it's sure fun.
posted by zachlipton at 8:39 PM on September 13, 2017 [45 favorites]


Hahaha yasssss to the GOP flipping it's shit over the DACA deal. Just for tonight at least cry bitter tears you racist halfwit chucklefucks. Every petulant whine and blubbering tear from a Steve either King or Bannon is a salve to human decency.
posted by supercrayon at 8:44 PM on September 13, 2017 [25 favorites]


I think honesty is called for…
posted by Tehhund


I was afraid you would turn out to actually be Donald Trump right before I clicked the link.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 9:01 PM on September 13, 2017 [21 favorites]


Hannity might have to jump on the Alex Jones "Trump is being drugged" bandwagon.
posted by perhapses at 9:24 PM on September 13, 2017 [5 favorites]


Fans hang racist sign on left field wall at Fenway Park

Anti-racism sign actually.


I also found that sign vague. Like, is this a societal rebuke or someone trying to trigger teh libruls? See also: when someone draws a swastika on Trump's Walk of Fame star - is that person saying "fuck this nazi president" or "fuck yeah, a nazi president"? Here in the darkest timeline, it's impossible to tell at a distance.

and for that reason I think honesty is called for…

I appreciate your candor, but hate to see a legend spoiled.
posted by EatTheWeek at 9:27 PM on September 13, 2017 [5 favorites]


Maybe the sign is anti-baseball.
posted by dirigibleman at 9:29 PM on September 13, 2017 [22 favorites]


I think some WH GrammarNazi has vetted those Trump tweets for syntax and punctuation. They seem meant to deflect from/atone for news of the DACA deal. If it is a deal.
posted by valetta at 9:34 PM on September 13, 2017


I am tiredly awaiting Trump to recede, tweet if pressed something like "COWARDLY DEMS KNEW AGREEMENT WAS TO BUILD WALL FIRST - NO WALL, NO DEAL!", and then act in a week as if nothing happened, perhaps because nothing did.
posted by Theiform at 9:45 PM on September 13, 2017 [3 favorites]


"No, that tweet was all wrong. Works on contingency? No, money down!"
posted by Chrysostom at 9:52 PM on September 13, 2017 [9 favorites]


Can't wait for more press hot takes on how Trump is a great dealmaker for giving democrats whatever they want. I wish he'd make a deal with me, I could use 10 million dollars in exchange for nothing and I know just the man to make that deal with.
posted by Justinian at 9:57 PM on September 13, 2017 [8 favorites]


You guys forgot about the Bowling Green Massacre, didn't you? It's OK, you can tell me.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:11 PM on September 13, 2017 [8 favorites]


Sort of in the "look at that bitch eating crackers" territory, but Trump wore a navy blue suit jacket with black trousers during a meeting with Tim Scott on Wednesday.
posted by dhens at 11:22 PM on September 13, 2017 [4 favorites]


The dumbest thing about anti-flag-burning laws is that burning is the traditional way to respectfully dispose of a flag.
posted by The Tensor at 11:51 PM on September 13, 2017 [37 favorites]


She lost the debates and lost her direction!

That's an absurd lie even by Trump's standards. She wiped his ass during the debates, leading his advisers to actively hide him for the rest of the campaign while Russia and Comey did their dirty work. After the third debate, it was evidently going to be a Hillary landslide in the final vote.
posted by msalt at 12:10 AM on September 14, 2017 [38 favorites]


That's an absurd lie even by Trump's standards. She wiped his ass during the debates, leading his advisers to actively hide him for the rest of the campaign while Russia and Comey did their dirty work. After the third debate, it was evidently going to be a Hillary landslide in the final vote.

And she did get the most votes...
posted by mikelieman at 2:28 AM on September 14, 2017 [14 favorites]


She wiped his ass?
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 2:31 AM on September 14, 2017 [5 favorites]


How do you even wipe the ass of someone who is standing behind you? Maybe this happened when he was humping the chair.
posted by Too-Ticky at 3:06 AM on September 14, 2017


You know, with Trump's support among MRA and red pill asswipes...is he negging her? Was this run at the presidency just a cry for attention so he can finally win the heart of the gal he's been after for years?

Please don't make this movie.
posted by maxwelton at 3:15 AM on September 14, 2017 [11 favorites]


DJT tweets: No deal was made last night on DACA. Massive border security would have to be agreed to in exchange for consent. Would be subject to vote. . . The WALL, which is already under construction in the form of new renovation of old and existing fences and walls, will continue to be built. . . .Does anybody really want to throw out good, educated and accomplished young people who have jobs, some serving in the military? Really!..... . . . ...They have been in our country for many years through no fault of their own - brought in by parents at young age. Plus BIG border security

At a distance this looks like a spinning top out of control. He no longer seems to know who to appease, who to cosy up to, or what side of his head his face is on.
posted by stonepharisee at 3:52 AM on September 14, 2017 [30 favorites]


This is basically 'tough guy talk' confirmation of the deal. Yeah, he says there's no deal, but only mentions a hyperbolic "massive border security" as the eventual cost. Doesn't mention the Wall as the cost. And then when he does mention the Wall, he says it's already underway in the form of fence improvement. Haha. So already redefining that down to something minor and already in process, i.e. not needed to be included in a deal.

Then tweets a big defense of Dreamers. Rs are going to have a fun day.
posted by chris24 at 4:00 AM on September 14, 2017 [11 favorites]


Failed President DJT: under construction in the form of new renovation of old and existing fences and walls, will continue to be built. . . .

Wow. Just Wow. The idea that's in his head that by fixing up the fences which are already there, HIS WALL promise if fulfilled. This should surprise me, but does not.

Other things which do not surprise me: DJT's supporters jumping right on, and when someone goes "but the wall isn't being built", will fall back to "Fake News!"

On the upside, we're not building the dumb wall. On the downside, even this objective fact will be perceived to his supporters as success.

So Much #Winning.
posted by mikelieman at 4:09 AM on September 14, 2017 [5 favorites]


Just a reminder that Evan McMullin isn't your friend or ally, just another glibertarian piece of shit trying to wrap himself in nationalist pablum while defending the ultra-rich:
@Evan_McMullin: When the populists of the far left rise on the promise of 'free' college and single-choice health care for all, who will stand for liberty?
The responses are great, tho.
posted by zombieflanders at 4:10 AM on September 14, 2017 [62 favorites]


Hey guys, here comes a sad:

Cover New Yorker would've run if HRC had won
posted by angrycat at 4:35 AM on September 14, 2017 [39 favorites]


That New Yorker cover is making me rethink my position on this pony. If anything calls out for a 😞, that does.
posted by TedW at 4:46 AM on September 14, 2017 [3 favorites]


Trump Says Jump. His Supporters Ask, How High? (NYTimes op-ed). Numbers show that Trump's voters follow him wherever he goes to an always comical degree. While this is hilarious and shocking and scary, all at the same time, it also shows something else that I have been saying the last couple of decades: many people want and even need leaders to show the direction. If the political leaders don't lead, but instead follow (polls, spin doctors, "analysts" etc.), most people will hate them and eventually turn towards demagogues. Which is what we have now.
posted by mumimor at 5:11 AM on September 14, 2017 [30 favorites]


Sort of in the 'look at that bitch eating crackers' territory, but Trump wore a navy blue suit jacket with black trousers during a meeting with Tim Scott on Wednesday.

Three years ago Republicans lost their minds over the President of the United States wearing a tan suit
posted by kirkaracha at 5:39 AM on September 14, 2017 [20 favorites]


If Evan McMullin, and everyone like him, were really so concerned about far left extremists, maybe he should have swallowed his pride and supported the centrist in 2016 instead of running his own campaign. Then Clinton might have won and we wouldn't all be in this disastrous situation we are now, with the extremists on the right holding all the power and the ones on the left looking appealing. Sorry centrists, you had your chance, and failed repeatedly. (To be honest with myself, we had our chance, sorry.) Now that America is staring disaster in the face on almost every front it's time for more drastic measures.
posted by Glibpaxman at 5:42 AM on September 14, 2017 [21 favorites]


The WALL, which is already under construction in the form of new renovation of old and existing fences and walls, will continue to be built

What this reveals is the thinking of a lifelong tax cheat. Reclassing existing and money-losing activity in another category of expense that qualifies for deductions. It's a great 1-second insight into how his mind works.
posted by Miko at 5:51 AM on September 14, 2017 [32 favorites]


Perhaps the alt-center can make a better go of it
posted by thelonius at 5:51 AM on September 14, 2017 [5 favorites]


Sort of in the "look at that bitch eating crackers" territory, but Trump wore a navy blue suit jacket with black trousers

Remmeber two weeks ago he sustained serious eye damage
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:11 AM on September 14, 2017 [12 favorites]


I'm not getting how this plays with Trump's psychology.

How is he go on rallies and stoke people up with bullshit if he's giving up his bullshit.

I mean, maybe this is the redemption of Trump, the magic of Schumer/Pelosi, but also maybe there's going to be some horrible twist. He's just too fucking crazy.
posted by angrycat at 6:26 AM on September 14, 2017 [2 favorites]


How is he go on rallies and stoke people up with bullshit if he's giving up his bullshit.

he's not giving up on his bullshit. he can't "give up" on his bullshit, he never had any investment in his bullshit, it's all just mouth noises that hurt people he hates and make other people cheer for him.

he's not doing these things because he's changed his mind about mexicans. he's doing them because he thinks these mouth noises will hurt mitch mcconnell and make other people cheer for him.

he's going to go to his next rally and probably still talk about the big beautiful wall and explain that it's already mostly built, they just have to slap some gold paint on it and put a TRUMP sign on top and then he can move on to making america great again again
posted by murphy slaw at 6:31 AM on September 14, 2017 [25 favorites]


How is he go on rallies and stoke people up with bullshit if he's giving up his bullshit.

When you are a star you can get away with it.

He'll stoke in the same ways as always and not bother to talk/yell/etc about any actions or really anything that matters
posted by Golem XIV at 6:46 AM on September 14, 2017 [2 favorites]


I'm not getting how this plays with Trump's psychology.

He got rolled on DACA and the wall, so the next play is that he lashes out at someone or something else to assuage his narcissistic injury. It means he'll have to dominate and humiliate someone else. And he still commands the military.

I think this is why this is so exhausting. We can't win one without knowing the next obscenity is right around the corner.
posted by schadenfrau at 6:52 AM on September 14, 2017 [18 favorites]


@realDonaldTrump: ...They have been in our country for many years through no fault of their own - brought in by parents at young age. Plus BIG border security

@AnnCoulter Retweeted Donald J. Trump
At this point, who DOESN'T want Trump impeached?

---

The Nazi wing of the Republican Party is not happy. Coincidentally, they just now understand the snake story.
posted by chris24 at 6:54 AM on September 14, 2017 [68 favorites]


> Trump Says Jump. His Supporters Ask, How High? (NYTimes op-ed).
From the OpEd:
Barber and Pope found that people who identified themselves as strong Republicans were among the most malleable voters. When told Trump had adopted a liberal stance, these voters moved decisively to the left; when told Trump had taken a conservative position, they moved sharply to the right, as the accompanying chart shows.
Hyper-rightwing masses have authoritarian personality. Pundits act as if surprised.
posted by runcifex at 6:54 AM on September 14, 2017 [48 favorites]


Right now, it seems like he is all in on humiliating the GOP leadership.
posted by drezdn at 6:54 AM on September 14, 2017 [6 favorites]


I think Ryan and McConnell are secretly happy about this deal, if it turns out to be true. They both were more or less behind the GOP immigration reform bill in 2013 before Eric Cantors loss spooked them and killed it, and if they can blame Trump for "betraying" the base, it keeps their name out of the crazys mouths while also solving a problem, they don't really want headlines on deporting American kids, and their big donors don't really want hardline immigrantion endorcemernt either. Blaming Trump for something they want anyway let's them keep playing the base while actually passing policy donors want.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:57 AM on September 14, 2017 [6 favorites]


I think this is why this is so exhausting. We can't win one without knowing the next obscenity is right around the corner.

Yeah. My internal commentary on him has gone from "Friends, this man will destroy the Republic" to "I hate him I hate him SHUT YOUR STUPID FACE ASSHOLE" and if you ask me again in a month I'm sure it will be nothing but incoherent screaming.
posted by corb at 6:57 AM on September 14, 2017 [58 favorites]


MetaFilter: nothing but incoherent screaming
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:04 AM on September 14, 2017 [22 favorites]


Blaming Trump for something they want anyway let's them keep playing the base while actually passing policy donors want.

Not if Trump tells his MAGAzombies to blame McRyan for everything.
posted by schadenfrau at 7:10 AM on September 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


Right now, it seems like he is all in on humiliating the GOP leadership.

i'm-ok-with-this.jpg
posted by entropicamericana at 7:11 AM on September 14, 2017 [8 favorites]


We do a lot of coherent screaming also.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 7:12 AM on September 14, 2017 [12 favorites]


I'm not getting how this plays with Trump's psychology.

How is he go on rallies and stoke people up with bullshit if he's giving up his bullshit.


Rallies are great for broadcasting propaganda and bullshit. He isn't ever asked questions. He won't be called out. People will cheer at just about anything he says. Perhaps he doesn't mention the wall. Maybe he talks about DACA by dividing immigrants into good and bad people and saying he's only getting rid of the bad ones. He can still attack his enemies (that list changes from day to day anyway,) and promote whatever he wants. He can still talk about what a fine job he's doing turning the economy around in the complete absence of any evidence that he's had an iota of impact.It's a big world and he's got to be planning to unleash Trump Doctrine foreign policies.

The media will note the speech omissions. They'll stir outrage over the new stuff. His supporters probably don't pay attention or don't care. And he gets to be the shit stirring rabble rouser for yet another news cycle while massaging his own ego.
posted by zarq at 7:13 AM on September 14, 2017 [9 favorites]


I think Ryan and McConnell are secretly happy about this deal, if it turns out to be true.

I agree in theory, but they have a big problem in that the racist wing of the GOP has long been kept happy with dogwhistles but with Trump got to eat steak. Going back to covert racism after two years of overt racism is going to be very hard for the nutjobs Trump enabled and empowered and very likely will disrupt further the fragile coalition between the Nazis and the Establishment. And very possibly hurt R enthusiasm and turnout in 2018.

Not to mention that the people Trump's pissing off now are pretty much the entire 35% that approves of him. Yes, most are sheep who will go along, forgive, blame others, but losing 10-20% of them, easily possible with Coulter, Ingraham and others going off on him, puts him in the 20s and again makes 2018 tougher.
posted by chris24 at 7:18 AM on September 14, 2017 [10 favorites]


I'd laugh at Trump's capital gains BS, but then I remember how criminally low Canada's capital gains tax is. And how easy it would be to raise it (it's been done several times over the years, and it was never a small jump either)
posted by Yowser at 7:18 AM on September 14, 2017


The rallies are also in line with Trump's attitude toward being publicly questioned in an unscripted, unmanaged capacity. He appears to loathe being put on the spot. He hasn't held a full-fledged solo press conference since February 16th. He held something he and the White House called a "pretty big press conference" back in August but refused to take any questions. (Showing up and giving a statement without taking questions is not a press conference.)

Considering what happened in February, we should probably be counting our blessings. If he did this on a regular basis the economy would crash and evangelicals would be hailing the imminent coming of the Apocalypse.
posted by zarq at 7:22 AM on September 14, 2017 [5 favorites]


Just a brief note to say, I'm having a extraordinarily easy time getting a live person on the line when I call Rob Portman's office lately. I hope this doesn't signify that basic acts of political activism by informed, sensible people are tapering off. There sure are a lot of things to be contacting our representatives about, every single day.

Lately, in Portman's case, I first identify issues where we have some agreement, such as funding treatment options for opioid addicts and eliminating online sex trafficking.

Then I ask whether he has taken a position or offered any statements (knowing full well he hasn't) on important matters, such as the Trump administration's waste of taxpayer dollars on the zero-evidence-based voter fraud investigator panel, or the RNC's support of voter suppression efforts at the state level.

Having established that he has not, I am generally asked if I would like to offer any comments of my own to be conveyed to him. At that point, I state that I understand that he wants to keep his head low (those are his own words) in order to score legislative wins on the fronts on which we agree, and I know that he considers himself a loyal Republican (his words, again) but I'm concerned that even if he succeeds in his legislative goals, he is potentially doing even greater harm by tacitly accepting executive abuse of authority, or party policies that place more importance on winning than on governing responsibly, which further undermines basic democratic ideals and people's confidence in the government.

I conclude by telling him I'd like to see a little less party loyalty, and a little more loyalty to core American values.

I have no idea if it is doing, or will do, any direct good. But I do know that passivity in the face of evil may be accurately referred to as enablement. So if your efforts to persuade your reps have waned, please consider renewing them.
posted by perspicio at 7:26 AM on September 14, 2017 [25 favorites]


Just a reminder that Evan McMullin isn't your friend or ally, just another glibertarian piece of shit trying to wrap himself in nationalist pablum while defending the ultra-rich:

Just a reminder that you don't need to agree on all policy positions with an ally against an insane fascist.

I think McMullin is dead wrong on how government should function in this country. But he's dead right on Trump, has been the entire time, and he embodies the kind of loyal opposition we want to see in a properly functioning non-lobotomized Republican party.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:40 AM on September 14, 2017 [49 favorites]


Protip: if you're calling Senator Schumer's office to ask him to support Medicare For All, I recommend calling the Rochester office- they're almost never slammed.
posted by The Whelk at 7:41 AM on September 14, 2017 [8 favorites]


Roy Moore, Luther Strange agree to debate with no moderator

I'm not sure whether to be excited or horrified.
posted by Talez at 7:42 AM on September 14, 2017 [9 favorites]


So... is Trump's first major legislative accomplishment going to be to give DACA the force of law, instead of it just being an exec. order?
posted by He Is Only The Imposter at 7:51 AM on September 14, 2017 [7 favorites]


Rep. Steve King (IA-Nazi):
@RealDonaldTrump If AP is correct, Trump base is blown up, destroyed, irreparable, and disillusioned beyond repair. No promise is credible
Please imagine my cackle, and then be assured it was even more gleeful than that.
posted by schadenfrau at 7:59 AM on September 14, 2017 [56 favorites]


Wait, wasn't Bannon going on recently about how Trump should maintain DACA?
I smell some weird Bannon fucked-upness here.
posted by angrycat at 8:02 AM on September 14, 2017 [2 favorites]


I smell some weird Bannon fucked-upness here.

Nah, that's just residual odor from when he expressed his musk glands a few weeks back. That stuff sticks around and despite the folk wisdom, tomato juice and baking soda really doesn't do much to denature Bannon-spray.
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:05 AM on September 14, 2017 [11 favorites]


he embodies the kind of loyal opposition we want to see in a properly functioning non-lobotomized Republican party.
posted by leotrotsky


eeeeeeeeeeponsterical
posted by the phlegmatic king at 8:07 AM on September 14, 2017 [10 favorites]


We do a lot of coherent screaming also.

Tangent: I grew up in Arkansas, where there is a town named Yellville. I was sorely disappointed on the day when I found out it was named for a local politician, because I'd been picturing a sign on the edge of town:

WELCOME TO YELLVILLE
MINIMUM SPEAKING VOLUME 85 dB
OUR MOTTO: "AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH"
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 8:09 AM on September 14, 2017 [71 favorites]


@chrislhayes: "If you trust a handshake deal you made with this man, you are an idiot."
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:13 AM on September 14, 2017 [23 favorites]


> Just a reminder that you don't need to agree on all policy positions with an ally against an insane fascist.

OK, but what's objectionable about taking note of other things that ally is dead wrong about? He's the one who took to Twitter to spit falsehoods about universal healthcare being "single-choice." Doesn't he deserve some of the blame for any divisions that might result from that?

Human beings not automatons who can ignore his batshit ideas about matters unrelated to Trump just because he happened to be right on Trump. We can compartmentalize to some extent, but at some point, folks on the left may decide that people like McMullin who can't be trusted to engage in an honest manner on non-Trump matters can't be trusted to resist Trump either.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:13 AM on September 14, 2017 [4 favorites]


Please imagine my cackle, and then be assured it was even more gleeful than that.
posted by schadenfrau


Would you say that it was some sort of delight at the misfortune of others?
posted by zombieflanders at 8:23 AM on September 14, 2017 [27 favorites]


Yeah, but we don't need to rely on Evan McMullin for anything either. His contribution is mostly whinging on Twitter and we are well part whinging on Twitter being useful.
posted by Merus at 8:26 AM on September 14, 2017 [2 favorites]


@costareports:
"The wall will come later." Pres. Trump to reporters this morning, per pool report. He adds, "Fairly close" to a DACA deal.

@ZekeJMiller:
Pool: Responding to a shouted question on whether he favors "amnesty," Trump shouted back: "The word is DACA."

---

Hahahaha hahahaha!
posted by chris24 at 8:28 AM on September 14, 2017 [44 favorites]


> Yeah, but we don't need to rely on Evan McMullin for anything either. His contribution is mostly whinging on Twitter and we are well part whinging on Twitter being useful.

Donald Trump became President of the United States primarily by whinging on Twitter. Mainstream news coverage is often coverage of who's whinging on Twitter and what it means. I didn't sign up for this dystopia, but it's here anyway, so we might as well accept that things that happen on Twitter actually matter now.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:32 AM on September 14, 2017 [16 favorites]


So, it seems like the deal is as Pelosi and Schumer described last night, with Trump mealy-mouthing to placate his base (good luck!). They still need Ryan/McConnell to move the legislation forward. How do those two figure they'll accomplish this without completely humiliating themselves (and further riling the base)?
posted by notyou at 8:36 AM on September 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


Er, Chuck Grassley wants to know that, too, it seems.
posted by notyou at 8:40 AM on September 14, 2017


Yeah, but we don't need to rely on Evan McMullin for anything either. His contribution is mostly whinging on Twitter and we are well part whinging on Twitter being useful.

Remember how goddamn incompetent the Trump administration is at every turn? Some of that is their own native incompetence, but some is also because McMullin and Navarro and others like them are keeping the mid-level-Republican-staffer rebellion going. It's not just the shitshow at the center that's keeping competent staffers away from DC - it's partially the idea that if they don't go, they can still stay loyal to what they believe the Party is, while not acknowledging its current head.

That kind of rebellion in an authoritarian structure cannot exist without recognized leaders and a circle to rally around.

So Evan McMullin and his ilk are actually doing a huge thing in hampering the administration - even if they're not successful in anything else they do - in just providing a place for rebels to flock to. And right now, infighting is good because it prevents the Party from rallying behind Trump.
posted by corb at 8:45 AM on September 14, 2017 [43 favorites]


Gershom Gorenberg, The American Prospect: Netanyahu Is Not Israel's Trump. He's Awful in His Own Way.
The danger that Netanyahu represents is inherent in his principles: They are antithetical to democracy, oppress Palestinians who live under Israeli rule in the occupied territories, and promise endless conflict.

The danger posed by Trump is quite different: He is a man devoid of principles except self-aggrandizement, a man lacking intelligence, driven by whim, yet capable of manipulating masses, and he is leader of the most powerful country on earth.

They are both awful. But they are very far from the same. And we cannot hope to resist what each is doing unless we keep a cold, clear understanding of the difference between them.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:46 AM on September 14, 2017 [5 favorites]


Finishing up old business:
A banner reading “Racism is as American as baseball” was hung over the Green Monster at Fenway Park during a game between the Red Sox and Athletics on Wednesday night. It reportedly remained in place for a few minutes before being removed by stadium security, and the fans who hung the sign were ejected.

“We are a group of white anti-racist protesters,” the fans said in a statement to The Post. “We want to remind everyone that just as baseball is fundamental to American culture and history, so too is racism. White people need to wake up to this reality before white supremacy can truly be dismantled. We urge anyone who is interested in learning more or taking action to contact their local racial justice organization.”
-- Des Bieler, WaPo
posted by Ogre Lawless at 8:50 AM on September 14, 2017 [42 favorites]


Haha, Breitbart is quite certain about what this morning's top story is: "EXCLUSIVE — GOV. SARAH PALIN TRAVELING TO ALABAMA TO CAMPAIGN FOR JUDGE ROY MOORE"
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:53 AM on September 14, 2017 [8 favorites]


Motel 6 has responded to yesterday's report about two of their Arizona locations regularly informing ICE about customers they believed to be undocumented:
Motel 6 spokesperson Raiza Rehkoff told Business Insider that the practice "was implemented at the local level without the knowledge of senior management."

"When we became aware of it last week, it was discontinued," Rehkoff said in an email.
posted by Atom Eyes at 9:02 AM on September 14, 2017 [15 favorites]


Just a reminder that you don't need to agree on all policy positions with an ally against an insane fascist.

Anyone who did not support Clinton in the most clear cut choice of a lifetime between fascism and not fascism is not an ally against fascism. That's seems pretty clear to me.

And beyond that McMullin is a horrible human being on virtually every issue important to progressives -- women's issues, race issues, economic issues, climate issues, judicial issues, abortion issues, Planned Parenthood, marijuana criminalization, student loans, college education, off shore drilling, fracking, nuclear, wind, photo Id for voting, Obamacare, Medicaid for the poor, DACA, minimum wage, private school vouchers, guns, taxes, military expansion.

McMullin is opposed to progressives on every single issue above. So he doesn't like Trump. A lot of people don't like Trump. That doesn't make him an ally. He failed to support the non-fascist the one time he might have made a difference.
posted by JackFlash at 9:04 AM on September 14, 2017 [31 favorites]


That doesn't make him an ally

No, it makes him useful for now. When we've purged the current infestation of nearly biblical evil from the White House, then we deal with the lesser assholes. Until then, let McMullin be useful.

I don't see why this is so complicated, tbh.
posted by schadenfrau at 9:11 AM on September 14, 2017 [22 favorites]


Useful it what way? The one time it really counted, the election, he failed to support the non-fascist.
posted by JackFlash at 9:13 AM on September 14, 2017 [4 favorites]


FWIW, I know people who futilely voted for McMullin instead of Trump, and these were people who never would have voted for HRC. Had McMullin not been an option, I'm reasonably certain they would have voted Trump instead of abstaining.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 9:15 AM on September 14, 2017 [13 favorites]


I imagine someone that drew 700k votes away from Clinton would piss a fair number of people here off. In a symmetric sense, I'd give McMullin a little credit for pulling 700k votes away from Trump.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 9:15 AM on September 14, 2017 [9 favorites]


> Until then, let McMullin be useful.

Does letting him be useful require that we attenuate our criticism of him when he's launching misleading attacks on single-payer healthcare? Or are we still allowed oppose him on the things he's wrong about without being accused of setting back the resistance to American fascism?
posted by tonycpsu at 9:16 AM on September 14, 2017 [16 favorites]


I may have drafted and deleted several tweets yesterday along the lines of "You don't work for the CIA anymore, you don't have to keep reflexively destroying everything with the slightest whiff of socialism."

I mean I'm mostly joking. Mostly. Instead I just retweeted @InternetHippo's centrism rally at him, and I saw I wasn't the only one.

The fact that his every single tweet yesterday was an attempt to mitigate the one before it suggests that his claim that universal healthcare was just as bad as white supremacy didn't go over very well.
posted by ckape at 9:16 AM on September 14, 2017 [12 favorites]


Useful it what way?

Please see corb's comment above. But also, "divide and conquer" is like...pretty well known. A divided GOP is a weakened GOP. Those divisions have already helped to save the ACA and, apparently, DACA. A United GOP could burn the republic to the ground in 6 months, so we encourage division wherever we can. This isn't rocket science.
posted by schadenfrau at 9:18 AM on September 14, 2017 [17 favorites]


Guess Whether These Headlines Came From Breitbart or 1920s KKK Newspapers (Disclosure: Dr. Shulman is an old, old friend of mine.)
posted by Faint of Butt at 9:20 AM on September 14, 2017 [27 favorites]


Ultimately, it isn't just tactically refreshing to see the Republicans devour each other after realizing that a man who has made his career out of breaking promises and backing out of deals turns out to have no sense of party loyalty; it is also deeply satisfying.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 9:21 AM on September 14, 2017 [9 favorites]


Does letting him be useful require that we attenuate our criticism of him when he's launching misleading attacks on single-payer healthcare? Or are we still allowed oppose him on the things he's wrong about without being accused of setting back the resistance to American fascism?

No? And yes?

I mean, do what you want. McMullin's usefulness as a divider is possibly enhanced the more he pisses off the left. Just remember there's opportunity cost. If you're going to fight, start with the dude who can most immediately hurt you, unless you have unlimited energy for some reason.

It's not that McMullin doesn't deserve to be attacked, it's that he is a low value target.
posted by schadenfrau at 9:23 AM on September 14, 2017 [5 favorites]


> It's not that McMullin doesn't deserve to be attacked, it's that he is a low value target.

Doesn't that mean he's also low value as a divider of the GOP? And don't those same opportunity cost concerns apply to all of this tut-tutting about the perils of attacking him for his tweet? "You could be doing something so much more valuable with your time" is a really cheap criticism that usually proves too much.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:28 AM on September 14, 2017 [3 favorites]


Scott Hechinger (@scottHech) Senior Staff Attorney and Dir of Policy for Brooklyn Defender Services has been reporting all morning that there are ICE teams staked out inside the (misdemeanor) court house in downtown Brooklyn at 120 Schemerhorn st.

It appears, for now, that reporters from nyt, dnainfo, slate, and democracy now have chased away the agents with unwanted attention.
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 9:32 AM on September 14, 2017 [37 favorites]


Doesn't that mean he's also low value as a divider of the GOP?

Not even a little bit, no. There is no inherent connection between one's ability to influence or fuck up a small but influential community (GOP staffers, say) and one's ability to influence the policy agenda. I'm honestly having trouble figuring out how you see this as zero sum; the logic just doesn't follow.

I feel like this is verging into a derail, especially since we mostly seem to be in agreement that he's an asshole and he's been pretty well castigated. He's just an asshole who might be a problem in the future. There are a WHOLE BUNCH of assholes who are a problem right now.
posted by schadenfrau at 9:36 AM on September 14, 2017 [5 favorites]


ICE Agents: "Ahhhhh! Sunlight!" *HISSSSS*
posted by leotrotsky at 9:36 AM on September 14, 2017 [42 favorites]


Doesn't that mean he's also low value as a divider of the GOP?

No. There are two dimensions here. The one is how much a particular person is useful to furthering one's own goals, and the other is how much a particular person is damaging to furthering those goals. This is not one continuum but two.

To draw an extreme example, I don't care whether the guy who washes the windows of the White House is a fascist nearly as much as I care whether the guy who sits at the desk is, because I'm not in nearly as much danger from fascist maintenance staff as I am from a fascist executive. McMullin's ability to effect policy change that liberals dislike is virtually nil. His ability to remind conservatives that they used to believe in things other than the naked embrace of political expediency is somewhat larger than nil.

I mean, make your own decisions and calculations, but I don't think the smart question is always "does so-and-so believe exactly as I do on the host of political issues that are important to me?"
posted by gauche at 9:37 AM on September 14, 2017 [17 favorites]


It's not that McMullin doesn't deserve to be attacked, it's that he is a low value target.

There are millions of us and the day is long. We can attack all targets, regardless of value. We don't have to choose.

McMullin's worldview is still fascism, he's just a better liar.
posted by melissasaurus at 9:39 AM on September 14, 2017 [12 favorites]


I scored 50% on that headline thing. Most of the ones I got right were because I guessed based on language use. I figured (correctly) that no self-respecting publication from the early 20th century would use terms like "busted", and no one at Breitbart would ever use a word like "asserts".

So basically I only got as high a score as I did by assuming that today's cracker-ass bigots would be less articulate than cracker-ass bigots a century ago. So much for preserving the purity of bloodlines.
posted by middleclasstool at 9:41 AM on September 14, 2017 [43 favorites]


When Democrats take back the White House, priority ONE should be to completely disband ICE.
posted by Atom Eyes at 9:47 AM on September 14, 2017 [38 favorites]


Paul Ryan, who wasn't in the meeting, metaphorically shouting "I am not owned" into the wind like the dignity wraith he is:
"There's no agreement," Paul Ryan says of Trump's framework deal with Schumer and Pelosi on DACA.
"These were discussions, not negotiations," Paul Ryan says.
This comes as Pelosi sets the standard for a deal not just at preserving DACA, but at the DREAM Act (confirming last night's reporting), which goes further, providing a path to citizenship for dreamers.
posted by zachlipton at 9:57 AM on September 14, 2017 [21 favorites]


(Does anyone have a pointer on why Obama deported so many people? I'm asking not because "both sides" but because he's clearly intelligent, and I want to try and understand the thinking behind it. I'm convinced he's dead wrong.)
posted by maxwelton at 10:00 AM on September 14, 2017 [4 favorites]


but I don't think the smart question is always "does so-and-so believe exactly as I do on the host of political issues that are important to me?"

according to twitter you are SO wrong
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:00 AM on September 14, 2017 [4 favorites]


I know it won't last, because everything built on one's ability to manipulate a malignant narcissist with unimaginable power is...inherently unstable, let's say, but I am enjoying the fuck out of McRyan pwnage.

Nancy and Chuck are so much better at their jobs. Goddamn.
posted by schadenfrau at 10:01 AM on September 14, 2017 [38 favorites]


Pelosi and Schumer are the ones playing umpty-dimensional chess, if anyone is. I love having insiders and experts on my side.

I have to wonder if the conversation went "Mr. President, you are the bestest, winningest, most manly-handed president EVAH!" and that was all it took to get The Giant Circus Peanut to give them what they wanted?
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 10:06 AM on September 14, 2017 [11 favorites]


( Does anyone have a pointer on why Obama deported so many people?
Migration Policy Institute: The Obama Record on Deportations: Deporter in Chief or Not?)
posted by the man of twists and turns at 10:07 AM on September 14, 2017 [10 favorites]


Does anyone have a pointer on why Obama deported so many people?

He thought he could prove to Republicans how tough he was on immigrantion and they'd give him credit and pass bipartisan comprehensive immigrantion reform.

Most things Obama did can be explained by him constantly seeking Republican approval and credit for bipartisan outreach.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:09 AM on September 14, 2017 [45 favorites]


(Does anyone have a pointer on why Obama deported so many people? I'm asking not because "both sides" but because he's clearly intelligent, and I want to try and understand the thinking behind it. I'm convinced he's dead wrong.)

1. They prioritized "serious" crime breakers, so they were to able to work more efficiently and grab deportees relatively close to the system.

2. The effort was also political. The idea was that consistently strong deportation numbers would deflect any claim that Obama was weak on border security when the immigration reform politicking eventually got underway. Getting some kind of sensible immigration reform was one of Obama's key promises, you'll recall. (Those Weak on Border security arguments were made regardless of the actual numbers.)
posted by notyou at 10:11 AM on September 14, 2017 [15 favorites]


Yeah, he unfortunately thought they hated him because he was liberal but turns out they hated him because he was black.
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:18 AM on September 14, 2017 [78 favorites]


The fact Obama's immigration narrative never took hold despite unprecedented, concrete efforts is proof positive that the Republican party is basically a bad-faith actor at every level.
posted by Room 101 at 10:19 AM on September 14, 2017 [41 favorites]


Obama also caught a ton of people right at the border and sent them back; that still counts as "deportation".
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 10:26 AM on September 14, 2017


Yeah, he unfortunately thought they hated him because he was liberal but turns out they hated him because he was black.

To be fair, it was both. Obamas problem was it took him seven years to realize they would never deal in good faith, when it was obvious that was the case within a few months at most. He never changed tactics or goals until it was far too late.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:29 AM on September 14, 2017 [11 favorites]


@realDonaldTrump: Crooked Hillary Clinton blames everybody (and every thing) but herself for her election loss. She lost the debates and lost her direction!

@HillaryClinton Replying to @realDonaldTrump
If you didn't like that book, try this one — some good lessons in here about working together to solve problems. Happy to send a copy. [pic of It Takes a Village]

---

And from Feb 2016, Scott Lincicome of the Cato Institute wins today's Nostradamus award.

@brithume: Trump today: "I'm very capable of changing to anything I want to change to." Oh great.

@scottlincicome Retweeted Brit Hume
I'm telling you, the Trump/Schumer/Pelosi Amnesty Act of 2017 is going to be so amazing you won't believe it.
posted by chris24 at 10:30 AM on September 14, 2017 [19 favorites]


This pool report by David Nakamura is such a strange artefact of the Presidency. And for the second disaster in a row, he did the "gloves are too small for my hands" bit, managing to break one.
Trump stood behind a silver tin of hoagies, cut in half and wrapped in cellophane. Melania was near bottled water and Pence near the bananas. Trump paused to try to put on thin white plastic gloves but struggled. His hands were apparently too, uh, large.

Theyre too small, Trump said. The glove on his right hand ripped along his thumb, exposing skin. Trump began shaking hands and passing out hoagies or, rather, pointing at them. Dont forget to take one! he implored. Heres a nice one! It was hot but trump kept on his windbreaker over his white dress shirt and khakis

Pence wore an Air Force jacket with his name, including middle initial R., embroidered on it. Scott wore a blue NAVY baseball cap and Rubio had and Ave Maria University beige ball cap

Trump pumped his fist.Dont forget a sandwich. He said.

A muscular man in a red polo approached Trump. The president marveled. You a workout guy? he asked. Keep it up.
...
A woman holding a small dog shook hands with Potus. Are you a biker? Trump wondered. The bikers love us. He slapped her on the shoulder with a broad grin.

Another man then yelled out: Where was Obama during the last hurricane? ON the golf course! The man shook with Potus and Trump asked if hed voted for him. Best vote of your life? Trump asked.

Then Trump turned to the press pool: Dont report that, he said, grinning again. Thats good news.

At that point, WH aides pulled the press corps away and we loaded vans back to helos.

-30-
His interest in other human beings in the middle of a disaster zone seems to be limited to categorizing them rather than empathizing with them.
posted by zachlipton at 10:37 AM on September 14, 2017 [31 favorites]


As noted upthread and repeatedly throughout the endless era of Trump, one of his Achilles' heels seems to be the respect of the New York Times as proxy for the Manhattan establishment.

Interesting, then, that the Editorial Board laid out a pathway to praise for him on September 12 ("Want to Make a Deal, Mr. Trump?"), including this paragraph:
Mr. Trump’s announcement last week that he intends to rescind President Barack Obama’s Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals order, protecting 800,000 young undocumented immigrants brought to the United States as children from deportation, was widely unpopular. The DACA program will now expire in six months, plunging these immigrants into limbo, and so far, Congress has done nothing but talk about helping them. Democrats see some hope in Mr. Trump’s seeming lack of commitment to his own draconian edict — last week, “Nancy” persuaded him to tweet reassurance to those affected. It’s a slim reed, but they hope he will pressure Republicans to act on the Dream Act, a 16-year-old proposal to resolve these immigrants’ legal status permanently....
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:45 AM on September 14, 2017 [5 favorites]


Congress' Far Right Melts Down Over Trump DACA Deal (TPM)
After news broke Wednesday night that President Donald Trump had tentatively promised Democratic leaders that he will sign into law the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) program without demanding funding for a border wall in return, all hell broke loose in the far-right, anti-immigration wing of the GOP.
Go on.
Several Republicans lawmakers, including Rep. Steve King (R-IA), warned that Trump will see his popular support crumble if he continues to side with Democrats on DACA and the border.
Keep talking.
Many GOP lawmakers, however, appeared to be moving through the stages of grief when they heard the news of Trump’s DACA wavering, beginning with denial.

“No. I find it hard to believe. I don’t think so,” said Rep. David Brat (R-VA) of the tentative deal to give approximately 800,000 young immigrants a path to citizenship.
This is almost...too much?
When presented with the president’s tweets confirming Democrats’ account of the meeting, Brat moved on to the stage of anger.

“If you do the amnesty part first, that’s instant, and then conservatives will never get what they want,” he railed.
*uncontrolled cackling*
Brat, who unseated then-House Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R-VA) in large part by attacking him over supporting a path to citizenship for young immigrants, then moved onto bargaining.

“There could be an agreement,” he allowed, “but it’s still gotta go through the House and Senate.”
I'll be in my bunk.
posted by schadenfrau at 10:46 AM on September 14, 2017 [54 favorites]


Iowa update: remember how there was a special election for state legislature last month where the Republicans unsuccessfully attacked the Democratic candidate's record of supporting trans kids when he was a member of the school board? School board elections were Tuesday, and a progressive slate routed anti-trans activists in the same district, where there have been ugly battles over bathroom access. Here's hoping that Republicans are going to realize that this isn't a winning issue for them, and this will be the end of it.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 10:57 AM on September 14, 2017 [48 favorites]


I look forward to the signing of the "President Trump, You're the DREAMiest President Ever" Act.
posted by emjaybee at 10:57 AM on September 14, 2017 [5 favorites]


Funny how easy, peasy, and squeezy it is to govern when you're the opposition party and all you have to do is say "No!" to the African-American President and San Francisco Nancy, while yapping and flapping your jaws about lowering taxes and deporting brown people and Make America A White Christian Patriarchy Again.

But when the opportunity comes to actually govern, it's soooooo haaaaaard.

I don't mean that they haven't done harm - especially in legitimizing Neo-Nazis to crawl out from under rocks - but the R's are, on the whole, less well-oiled machine and more Keystone Kops.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 10:58 AM on September 14, 2017 [17 favorites]


Let's tell him we can rename green cards to be "TRUMP cards" and change them to gold, he'll be wanting to pass them out to everyone at the borders even if they're just coming in for an hour.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:00 AM on September 14, 2017 [20 favorites]


HRC gives all profits from It Takes a Village to charity, but nïce bürn otherwise.
posted by phearlez at 11:03 AM on September 14, 2017 [75 favorites]


I guess it was way too much to hope that her snarky book recommendation would not be self-promotion. Sheesh.

Just look at her over there with that stack of crackers.
posted by cmfletcher at 11:09 AM on September 14, 2017 [114 favorites]


@ZekeJMiller:
Pool: Responding to a shouted question on whether he favors "amnesty," Trump shouted back: "The word is DACA."


Oh, good luck with that! The Republican Party's racist base is going to perform just like they've been trained to do by the conservative media and yell "amnesty!!!1!" at anything less than full-on ethnic cleansing of every brown and/or Spanish-speaking person in America.
posted by Gelatin at 11:11 AM on September 14, 2017 [5 favorites]


What are these great Cadillac plans we are all in danger of losing with universal health care? I work at a huge, rich, company and pay $12,000 per year for my family's health insurance. It has a $2,800 deductible. This insurance is currently refusing to pay for medically necessary, prescribed by my doctor, care.

You're gonna love paying income taxes on your employer's contribution, then, after teh tax reform.


I'm not going to defend this as a change made in order to give big cuts to the 0.1%.

I am going to point out that the fact that health benefits are pre-tax is very much an unfair subsidization of higher wage earners. The fact that employer-provided health care is an untaxed benefit is unfair to the people who don't get employer provided insurance and it's a distorting effect that makes improving our health care system harder.

Most of the so-called Cadillac plans are in union-negotiated contracts and it's part of why the AFL-CIO was against the deal. There's also some in executive compensation where these folks get access to a level of care that looks - no kidding - like a spa experience. Effectively providing some upper bound at which you can get compensation that you aren't taxed for is not as fair as everyone paying taxes on it but it's more fair than dodging income tax by giving someone an untaxed $1 rather than a post-tax $0.72.

Yet another distorting effect of this is the Hobby Lobby decision. The idea that your employer can put limits on where you spend your salary is anathema to almost all Americans, but we say things like your employer's contribution as if it's somehow your employer spending their money on you rather than compensating you for your work we prime people to think they should have any say at all in how that money is spent.
posted by phearlez at 11:14 AM on September 14, 2017 [25 favorites]


Why are you still digging?
posted by phearlez at 11:22 AM on September 14, 2017 [21 favorites]


Trump loves the deal. He loves doing them and crowing about them. In his mind he is not a Republican President so much as a Deal-Maker-in Chief. But it is difficult to make deals, to talk about deals, to exult over deals if the people you are trying to make them with are supposedly already on your side of the negotiating table. In Trump's mind, people on your side (McConnell, Ryan) are supposed to be your lieutenants and "employees", not your partners, so any time he tries to work with the Congressional R's, it violates the simplistic binary he holds in his head (why am I negotiating with these guys, instead of just issuing orders to them?).
However, Pelosi and Schumer fit perfectly into his binary deal-making preconceptions. They are nominally oppositional, but also personally charming, and can offer something Trump craves (bi-partisan praise) in return for political concessions in areas that, truthfully, Trump has historically not given two shits about (at least until someone told him that pretending to do so would win him Conservative followers, which he now considers his permanent property). He doesn't care that the Republican establish is whingeing about this "betrayal"--they will fall into line eventually, probably right about Primary season. Meanwhile, he will have done a deal. And if that deal goes through, he will receive praise from some quarters that have previously had nothing but venom for him- which to Trump, neediest MF'er to every hold the office of president, will like a shot of the best, most pure drug you can imagine.
posted by Chrischris at 11:23 AM on September 14, 2017 [61 favorites]


here's a website that blasts little semicoherent messages with a picture of your face stuck next to them out to the wide world, now listen carefully: you mustn't use it for self promotion
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:26 AM on September 14, 2017 [52 favorites]


I'm sorry, but this reads to me pretty similar to the notion that, once you pick a candidate, you must be loyal to them and disregard or even conceal their flaws.

Tweeting a shot of her book that actual charities make money from is a flaw now?
posted by Etrigan at 11:30 AM on September 14, 2017 [23 favorites]


This seems like an unintentional derail. Some think that self-promotion (even for charity) and snarkiness don't mesh well. Some don't mind. Either way, it seems pretty miniscule.
posted by bootlegpop at 11:37 AM on September 14, 2017 [7 favorites]


Clinton Rules, part 54 section 78.213. They're quite thorough, really.
posted by Dashy at 11:39 AM on September 14, 2017 [42 favorites]


tl;dr: INOKIYAHC
posted by narwhal at 11:40 AM on September 14, 2017 [52 favorites]


Tweeting a shot of her book that actual charities make money from is a flaw now?

She keeps insisting on being Hillary Clinton while doing it.
posted by phearlez at 11:41 AM on September 14, 2017 [60 favorites]


I feel like maybe we DO need to call out the misogynistic attacks on Clinton doing anything whatsoever (or not doing something) because it's double-standard bullshit. If you find yourself filled with rage at her doing something so mundane as promoting her own charity that helps people while tweaking Trump, then you are probably looking at her through a residue of 30 years of Republican hate campaigns and need to wash that shit out of your eyes.
posted by emjaybee at 11:42 AM on September 14, 2017 [81 favorites]


I wandered into the thread hoping for some gloating over the current GOP internecine fighting and ended up ordering a copy of It Takes a Village instead.

Well played, HRC. Well played.
posted by lydhre at 11:42 AM on September 14, 2017 [41 favorites]


Por que no los dos, lydhre?
posted by phearlez at 11:43 AM on September 14, 2017 [6 favorites]


Hillary Clinton doesn't write her own tweets, which is perfectly fine. However, it's also perfectly fine to criticize what is essentially branded content put out by her PR team.
posted by Atom Eyes at 11:43 AM on September 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


VIRGINIA HOUSE ELECTIONS - HD 31-35

intro
1-5
6-10
11-15
16-20
21-25
26-30

===

31st District
Currently GOP seat
R cand: Scott Lingamfelter (incumbent)
D cand: Elizabeth Guzman

DC exurbs, 63.6% white. Incumbent first elected in 2001. R won 50-49 in 2013 and 53-47 in 2015. Clinton won district 53-42. Ballotpedia Race To Watch and Flippable Priority district. There is also an independent running. I left VA a decade ago, but if I recall correctly, Lingamfelter is truly odious.

===

32nd District
Currently GOP seat
R cand: Thomas Greason (incumbent)
D cand: David Reid

DC exurbs (Loudon County), 69.4% white. Incumbent first elected in 2009. R won 51-49 in 2013 and 53-47 in 2015. Clinton won district 58-37. Ballotpedia Race To Watch and Flippable Priority district.

===

33rd District
Currently GOP seat
R cand: Dave LaRock (incumbent)
D cand: Tia Walbridge

DC exurb district, gerrymandering Leesburg, 87.4% white. Incumbent first elected in 2013. R won 54-43 in 2013 and 60-37 in 2015. Trump won district 54-40.

===

34th District
Currently Dem seat
R cand: Cheryl Buford
D cand: Kathleen Murphy (incumbent)

DC suburbs, 76.4% white. Incumbent first elected in 2015 special. R won 51-49 in 2013, D won 2015 special 51-49, D won 2015 regular 50-50. Clinton won district 58-37. Ballotpedia Race To Watch and Flippable Defend district.

===

35th District
Currently Dem seat
R cand: none
D cand: Mark Keam (incumbent)

DC suburbs (Fairfax), 67.0% white. Incumbent first elected in 2009. D won 65-35 in 2013, no R candidate in 2015. Clinton won district 66-27.

===

Next time: 36-40.
posted by Chrysostom at 11:43 AM on September 14, 2017 [29 favorites]


Plus self-promotion is literally the only language Trump seems to understand. By that metric, her tweet was a slam dunk.
posted by Mchelly at 11:44 AM on September 14, 2017 [10 favorites]


And trying to shame the narcissist-in-chief by tweeting self-promotion at him is bullshit and stupid.

Wut? If anything, this is a great way to get under his orange skin. I wonder how many of Trump's ghost-written brand books It Take a Village has outsold? I don't have the number, but I'll bet Trump does and has fumed over it.
posted by EatTheWeek at 11:44 AM on September 14, 2017 [11 favorites]


However, it's also perfectly fine to criticize what is essentially branded content put out by her PR team.

That's not substantially different than criticizing HRC herself, in this case for something that ultimately helps a charity. Her PR team speaks on her behalf.
posted by Emmy Rae at 11:47 AM on September 14, 2017 [5 favorites]


I am profoundly confused about why that 'is bullshit.'

Because a woman promoting herself in any way is a path to becoming a harlot?

Because fuck capitalism, amirite?

Because it's absolutely essential that 'our side' be puritanically unsullied by anything as gross as the egotism of self-promotion or gain, lest we be tainted and cast out?

Because snarky self-promotion feeds the hate machine of the right and gives them an example of HRC's evilness to which to point, even if it's a shitty example?

I mean, pick as many of these as you want.
posted by hanov3r at 11:56 AM on September 14, 2017 [23 favorites]


Chrischris: "In Trump's mind, people on your side (McConnell, Ryan) are supposed to be your lieutenants and "employees", not your partners, so any time he tries to work with the Congressional R's, it violates the simplistic binary he holds in his head (why am I negotiating with these guys, instead of just issuing orders to them?). "

I think this is it exactly. Someone on Twitter put it well the other day: Trump sees Schumer/Pelosi as counterparties; he sees McConnell/Ryan as staff.
posted by Chrysostom at 12:01 PM on September 14, 2017 [58 favorites]


However, it's also perfectly fine to criticize what is essentially branded content put out by her PR team.

Yes, it is perfectly fine in the sense that one can say it and it's not prohibited hate speech. Perfectly fine in the sense that we can't point out how textbook Clinton Derangement Syndrome/double standard against women/bitch eating crackers it is? No.

You wanna slag self-promotion in general, knock yourself out. I'll think it's dumb but at least it's consistent. But I guess it was way too much to hope that her snarky book recommendation would not be self-promotion reads pretty specifically as Clinton hate that looks just like the last thirty years of she doesn't know her place. I'm sure you can sometimes perfectly ape a thing without actually being a thing, but when your comment is indistinguishable from every republican smear against her I think sensible people would question if that's really the look they want to present to the world.
posted by phearlez at 12:02 PM on September 14, 2017 [37 favorites]


National Treasure Charles P. Pierce of Esquire:
All those rallies last year wouldn’t have been half as much fun had people been forced to chant, “Renovate Existing Structures With American Tax Dollars.” However, at least we know now why all those rallies ended with the Rolling Stones’ “You Can’t Always Get What You Want.”

Before breakfast on Thursday morning, on the signature issue of his campaign, the president* undermined everyone who ever supported him, the Republican congressional majorities, the Democratic congressional minorities, and himself, twice. It’s got to be some kind of record.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:04 PM on September 14, 2017 [11 favorites]


> This seems like an unintentional derail. Some think that self-promotion (even for charity) and snarkiness don't mesh well. Some don't mind. Either way, it seems pretty miniscule.

I am certain that folks in the first group have a long record of dogged attention to this issue of self-promotion on Twitter, and that the fact that the person doing it in this case is Hillary Clinton is a mere coincidence.
posted by tonycpsu at 12:04 PM on September 14, 2017 [18 favorites]


The Best And Brightest, Vol DCLIII: The Twitter account for President Trump’s new pick for the Federal Election Commission was reportedly made private Tuesday evening after other Twitter users began noticing some of the nominee’s past sharing of anti-Protestant posts. (TPM)
posted by Chrysostom at 12:04 PM on September 14, 2017 [3 favorites]


the president* undermined everyone who ever supported him, the Republican congressional majorities, the Democratic congressional minorities, and himself, twice. It’s got to be some kind of record.

I think more than Trump's mirror or razor, the one piece of wisdom that remains true about Trump is Sarah Kenzior's tweet: "Trump is going to screw you over like he screws everyone else over. He will humiliate you and you will have sacrificed yourself for nothing."
posted by gladly at 12:10 PM on September 14, 2017 [10 favorites]


the nominee’s past sharing of anti-Protestant posts.

Okay, the Paris Climate Accords is one thing, but this wartknuckle wants to pull us out of the Treaty of Westphalia?
posted by Etrigan at 12:11 PM on September 14, 2017 [28 favorites]


Josh Marshall of Talking Points Memo thinks This Is Terribly Damaging For Trump.
This may go without saying for some. But I do not think that Democrats are giving Trump some help or throwing him a lifeline at the price of accomplishing something really critical in policy terms – protecting the Dreamers. I think that gets this exactly wrong. I think pressing Trump for this deal is doing immense damage to Trump. Indeed, the more successful it is, the greater the damage.

If this deal falls apart, it will have done Trump – or more specifically his relationship with his core constituency – immense damage. If it comes to fruition, the damage is even worse. Don’t get me wrong. I’m not saying his ‘base’ abandons him en masse and suddenly those approval numbers drop to zero. But this is very, very damaging for Trump, just as it when any politician casually betrays a key agenda item for his or her staunchest supporters.
I'm inclined to agree. Trump's support comes from those who enthusiastically see him as anti-establishment. If that enthusiasm substantially wanes, or if he starts to be seen as part of the establishment, his approval ratings will sink to the point where Republican politicians are forced to consider becoming the proverbial ships fleeing a sinking rat.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:12 PM on September 14, 2017 [37 favorites]


Good grief, folks. You're talking about a book that is 21 years old and number 18,000 on Amazon. This isn't about promoting a very old book.

It's about the Alfred E. Smith Dinner in 2016 when Trump said “Everyone knows, of course, Hillary’s belief that, 'It takes a village,' which only makes sense, after all, in places like Haiti, where she’s taken a number of them."

Trump making a "joke" about human suffering and the Clinton Foundation's work in Haiti.

Hillary is just throwing that shit right back in his face.
posted by JackFlash at 12:12 PM on September 14, 2017 [72 favorites]


I like the idea that there are remaining Trump supporters who have key ideological principles for supporting him, and violations of those principles would cause them to abandon him. It's endearingly earnest yet astonishingly naive, like people who think that Best Buy employees have really wise advice on which HP laptop to buy.

Trump is a pure cult of personality and if he came out tomorrow in favor of demolishing the Interstate Highway System, his supporters would be like "That's what I've been thinking all along, but everyone was too afraid to say it! He's so brave!".
posted by 0xFCAF at 12:20 PM on September 14, 2017 [26 favorites]


Chrysostom: Trump sees Schumer/Pelosi as counterparties; he sees McConnell/Ryan as staff.

I think it also helps that Pelosi and (especially) Schumer are –for want of a better term– of Trump's Mileau. They are urbane people who have in common life experiences and attitudes that Trump understands and is comfortable with. I suspect they can josh and joke and chat with him in ways that don't undermine his ego or threaten his authority in the same manner that Congressional Republican Leaders (implicitly powerful on their own turf and therefore threatening to their titular "boss") cannot. Regardless of what the rubes who wear his stupid hats and scream themselves hoarse at his rallies want to believe, Trump is a Coastal Elite to the bone. So are Chuck and Nancy, and you can be assured that they have and will use that to their advantage.
posted by Chrischris at 12:20 PM on September 14, 2017 [15 favorites]




Sarah Kenzior's tweet: "Trump is going to screw you over like he screws everyone else over. He will humiliate you and you will have sacrificed yourself for nothing."

This is my sense, too. Josh Marshall likes to play paternal and tell us how it really is by way of tremendous insight, but I don't see the evidence that people will have any longer a memory about this than anything else, nor abandon their sportsteaming Ds & Rs.

I think pressing Trump for this deal is doing immense damage to Trump.

Damage to what, an empty suit? Trump exists for the naked exercise of power, but Ann Coulter mentions impeachment and suddenly the country starts to make sense? This time next week we'll be on the verge of nuclear war again (spit). Trump is a garbage person, he always has been and always will be. I'll be happy to eat a dictionary's worth of cakes on this. [fake]
posted by rhizome at 12:30 PM on September 14, 2017 [8 favorites]


I know a lot of people are rightly suspicious and wary of what Schumer and Pelosi are trying for, but goddamn, I'm just impressed. I'm sure they're more than aware that any deal with Trump is ephemeral at best, they aren't naive people. But I think they're playing the hand they've got better than my wildest expectations. If it all goes south, it won't be on them, and they've offered no particular concessions. I feel like at worst, they've lobbed a chunk of bloody meat into the churn of rabid rats that is the current GOP, and walked away while that seething mass of vermin goes at it and each other. At best, they'll have protected the Dreamers and given up nothing. I know I was a little worried about a devil's bargain, but that's not in evidence yet if at all.
posted by yasaman at 12:32 PM on September 14, 2017 [75 favorites]


Etrigan: "
Okay, the Paris Climate Accords is one thing, but this wartknuckle wants to pull us out of the Treaty of Westphalia?
"

Eh, probably more the Peace of Augsburg.
posted by Chrysostom at 12:33 PM on September 14, 2017 [4 favorites]


I, too, am a little weary of any deal making with Trump but it isn't clear to me how Pelosi or Schumer have given up anything here.

If they are to be believed the deal calls for the wall to "come later"

Things trump has said were coming later which have never materialized:
-his taxes
-the illegally tapped tapes of his meetings in trump tower
-the replacement of obamacare
-his tax plan
-an explanation of wtf he meant when he said Lebanon was fighting Hezbollah (its own govt)

I'd probably personally never want to be in the same room with the guy, but if you have to be making a deal with trump, it sure seems like getting what you want now, in exchange for some potential downside "later" is the right position.
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 12:37 PM on September 14, 2017 [15 favorites]


And yeah, not to denigrate Pelosi and Schumer's abilities to eke out marginal gains, but I'm starting to think that Trump surrounds himself with a shitbird moat to keep people like Pelosi and Schumer away from him, because they know anybody who gets in front of Trump can talk him into anything.
posted by rhizome at 12:37 PM on September 14, 2017 [12 favorites]


Re: HRC's self-promo:

Hi. I'm a writer. Let me introduce you to the concept of Always Be Promoting.

In addition, everything else here that has been said is spot-on: the money goes to charity, she actually wrote her books while he hired ghost writers, the money goes to charity, this will totally get under his skin, the money goes to charity, there is ZERO chance of Trump or his Twitter followers buying the book anyway, and did I mention it's for charity?

It's fine. It's totally fine. It was even a great shot on her part. If you want to be mad, find something else to be mad about.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 12:40 PM on September 14, 2017 [50 favorites]


I'm starting to think that Trump surrounds himself with a shitbird moat to keep people like Pelosi and Schumer away from him, because they know anybody who gets in front of Trump can talk him into anything.

If they'd stayed in Riyadh another week Trump would have interrupted the orb ceremony to announce he was converting to Islam.
posted by Copronymus at 12:43 PM on September 14, 2017 [21 favorites]


Heh yeah. He has no sense of acting against his own interests because he doesn't have any, except for being The Guy.
posted by rhizome at 12:44 PM on September 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


She would've sold even more copies if she'd called it It Takes a Village, People.
posted by kirkaracha at 12:46 PM on September 14, 2017 [15 favorites]


It's fun to stay with the DACA?
posted by Quindar Beep at 12:51 PM on September 14, 2017 [21 favorites]


It's going to take more than a village to make me interested in this debate.
posted by diogenes at 12:52 PM on September 14, 2017 [6 favorites]


She would've sold even more copies if she'd called it It Takes a Village, People.

I don't think she'd have sold any to macho men, though.
posted by hanov3r at 12:52 PM on September 14, 2017 [5 favorites]


It's about the Alfred E. Smith Dinner in 2016 when Trump said “Everyone knows, of course, Hillary’s belief that, 'It takes a village,' which only makes sense, after all, in places like Haiti, where she’s taken a number of them."

My English comprehension skills have abandoned me. Is this a sick burn and I just don't see it? She's taken a number of villages in Haiti? Huh?
posted by orrnyereg at 12:54 PM on September 14, 2017 [2 favorites]


Trump Humiliated Jeff Sessions After Mueller Appointment
Accusing Mr. Sessions of “disloyalty,” Mr. Trump unleashed a string of insults on his attorney general. Ashen and emotional, Mr. Sessions told the president he would quit and sent a resignation letter to the White House, according to four people who were told details of the meeting. Mr. Sessions would later tell associates that the demeaning way the president addressed him was the most humiliating experience in decades of public life.
posted by Atom Eyes at 12:56 PM on September 14, 2017 [29 favorites]


Remember how Sessions offered to resign after Mueller was appointed? It was apparently a bit more than that, the Times reports: Trump Humiliated Jeff Sessions After Mueller Appointment
Shortly after learning in May that a special counsel had been appointed to investigate links between his campaign associates and Russia, President Trump berated Attorney General Jeff Sessions in an Oval Office meeting and said the attorney general should resign, according to current and former administration officials and others briefed on the matter.

The president blamed the appointment of the special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, on Mr. Sessions’s decision to recuse himself from the Justice Department’s Russia investigation — a move Mr. Trump believes was the moment his administration effectively lost control over the inquiry. Accusing Mr. Sessions of “disloyalty,” Mr. Trump unleashed a string of insults on his attorney general.

Ashen and emotional, Mr. Sessions told the president he would quit and sent a resignation letter to the White House, according to four people who were told details of the meeting. Mr. Sessions would later tell associates that the demeaning way the president addressed him was the most humiliating experience in decades of public life.
...
When the phone call ended, Mr. McGahn relayed the news to the president and his aides. Almost immediately, Mr. Trump lobbed a volley of insults at Mr. Sessions, telling the attorney general it was his fault they were in the current situation. Mr. Trump told Mr. Sessions that choosing him to be attorney general was one of the worst decisions he had made, called him an “idiot,” and said that he should resign.
...
In the hours after the Oval Office meeting, however, Mr. Trump’s top advisers intervened to save Mr. Sessions’s job. Mr. Pence, Stephen K. Bannon, the president’s chief strategist at the time, and Reince Priebus, his chief of staff, all advised that accepting Mr. Sessions’s resignation would only sow more chaos inside the administration and rally Republicans in Congress against the president. Mr. Sessions, a former Alabama senator, served in the Senate for two decades.

The president relented, and eventually returned the resignation letter to Mr. Sessions — with a handwritten response on it.
That we're reading all this about the guy who has been going on an anti-leak crusade is fascinating. And I really want to know what the handwritten response said.
posted by zachlipton at 12:57 PM on September 14, 2017 [47 favorites]


My English comprehension skills have abandoned me. Is this a sick burn and I just don't see it? She's taken a number of villages in Haiti? Huh?

It makes perfect sense if you consider those red hats are just an inoculation vector for brain slugs.

(Also, we're 400+ comments past the general threshold of 2000 that is optimal as a maximum for these threads. However, I am already seeing "Trump" and "Potus45" as the most abundant FPP tags listed on my profile page, which makes me cringe every time I see it.

I'd be happy for someone else to post the next US politics megathread, I guess is what I'm saying.)
posted by darkstar at 12:58 PM on September 14, 2017 [5 favorites]


She's taken a number of villages in Haiti? Huh?

Let's not speak of that dark time. She never should have had her dragon burn the mayor and his son.
posted by diogenes at 12:59 PM on September 14, 2017 [17 favorites]


Ryan Teague Beckwith (via Twitter): Under the Constitution, the House tweets. If the Senate retweets, it goes to the President, who favs it into law.

Well yeah, but under the 69th Amendment, if a Senator likes porn, that triggers a filibuster, and then it takes a 60:1 ratio'd tweet to pass.
posted by zachlipton at 1:00 PM on September 14, 2017 [5 favorites]


Mr. Sessions would later tell associates that the demeaning way the president addressed him was the most humiliating experience in decades of public life.

When Coretta Scott King writing a letter about what a racist shitbag you are that gets entered into the Congressional Record doesn't make enough of an impression to get on your Most Humiliating Things list, you really gotta wonder whether you are, in fact, a racist shitbag.
posted by Etrigan at 1:00 PM on September 14, 2017 [112 favorites]


Mr. Sessions would later tell associates that the demeaning way the president addressed him was the most humiliating experience in decades of public life.

"The leopard eating my face was my most humiliating experience in decades of public life."

But now that the details of this privileged White House conversation have been improperly disclosed to the press, perhaps Mr. Sessions could devote himself to finding the real leakers?
posted by Doktor Zed at 1:01 PM on September 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


Mr. Sessions added "Why, he was speaking to me as if I wasn't even white!" [fake]
posted by Atom Eyes at 1:02 PM on September 14, 2017 [39 favorites]


Oh, and I didn't even manage to get lunch without more "on many sides" happening. A Month After Charlottesville, Trump Keeps Blaming ‘Bad Dudes’ For Violence
“We had a great talk yesterday,” Trump said of the meeting with Scott, who is the only black Republican senator. “I think especially in light of the advent of Antifa, if you look at what’s going on there.”

“Antifa” is short for “anti-fascist,” a group that sees violence as a proportional response to fascist groups.

“You have some pretty bad dudes on the other side also, and essentially, that’s what I said,” the President continued. “Now, because of what’s happened since then with Antifa, you look at what’s happened since Charlottesville, a lot of people are saying and people have actually written, ‘Gee, Trump may have a point.’ I said there’s some very bad people on the other side also, which is true.”
posted by zachlipton at 1:04 PM on September 14, 2017 [10 favorites]


Is the Humiliation Of Sessions a thing we had already heard about, or is this the second powerful adult male we have heard saying pretty much, "I have never been spoken to like Trump spoke to me in all my life" in the past month? Because it sounds really familiar.
posted by thebrokedown at 1:05 PM on September 14, 2017 [3 favorites]


I hope Trump compared him to a certain mythical race of wee cookie bakers.
posted by diogenes at 1:06 PM on September 14, 2017 [7 favorites]


thebrokedown: No, it's the second guy you've heard this about. The first was John Kelly, Chief of Staff.
posted by Justinian at 1:07 PM on September 14, 2017 [4 favorites]


He humiliated the turtle recently
posted by angrycat at 1:07 PM on September 14, 2017 [5 favorites]


All you have to do to get the Dreamer legislation passed is mention that Obama, even after he tried and tried to get a deal, just couldn't close it. Also mention that DREAMERS will be naming their kids after him if he manages to help them stay. While Trump doesn't give a shit about the DREAMERs as people, but he'll sure as hell spend some political capital to get that twin shot of political and personal aggrandizement that "saving" them will give him.
posted by Chrischris at 1:10 PM on September 14, 2017 [2 favorites]


The best part of this is how Trump made Sessions submit a resignation letter in May, rejected it, then got mad again and asked his staff to get a new resignation letter in July, and his staff just "slow-walked that until Trump moved on to something else."
posted by zachlipton at 1:16 PM on September 14, 2017 [23 favorites]


Why DID Sessions recuse himself? Is he a better person than I can bring myself to give him credit for? Or were there non "respect for the rule of law" reasons? What kind of political pressure could someone bring to bear on the attorney general? Or who could possibly bring to bear legal threats?
posted by OnceUponATime at 1:24 PM on September 14, 2017 [3 favorites]


My English comprehension skills have abandoned me. Is this a sick burn and I just don't see it? She's taken a number of villages in Haiti? Huh?

It's something to do with a Clinton Foundation project in Haiti that allegedly enriched the Clinton family instead of helping people.
posted by scalefree at 1:24 PM on September 14, 2017 [2 favorites]


So Arpaio was convicted on July 31st. Was the second tantrum about when he asked Sessions to drop the Arpaio case instead and Donny Two Scoops didn't get that ice cream?
posted by fluttering hellfire at 1:25 PM on September 14, 2017


And if that is the case, then I'm guessing "slow-walking" means Ivanka had to soothe King Baby telling him that he could just pardon Arpaio when meany Jeff Sessions wouldn't give him what he wanted.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 1:26 PM on September 14, 2017


Trump is a pure cult of personality and if he came out tomorrow in favor of demolishing the Interstate Highway System, his supporters would be like "That's what I've been thinking all along, but everyone was too afraid to say it! He's so brave!".

Survey says...yes!
posted by scalefree at 1:28 PM on September 14, 2017 [9 favorites]


"Nobody knows the system better than me, which is why I alone can fix it."

Only a clueless fucking idiot would claim either of these things, and Trump did both at the same time at the Republican Convention last summer. It made steam come out of my ears at the time, but now it's my favorite Trump quote.
posted by Rykey at 1:31 PM on September 14, 2017 [10 favorites]


ProPublica reports that Facebook allowed them to place ads targeted to "Jew haters," "How to burn Jews," "History of ‘why jews ruin the world,’” and “Hitler did nothing wrong.” The ad system helpfully suggests "Second Amendment" as a related category when you search on "Jew haters." Facebook has removed the categories and says they'll try to do better, or something.

On a related note, Trump will continue Obama's tradition of a White House conference call with Jewish leaders ahead of the High Holy Days, but coalitions representing Reform, Reconstructionist, and Conservative Rabbis will boycott the call, citing the President's "lack of moral leadership" after Charlottesville. The Orthodox, of course, are just swell with this.
posted by zachlipton at 1:31 PM on September 14, 2017 [41 favorites]


I confess I feel like the 'is that something I have to have a tv to know about guy' when it comes to Facebook because I've refused to ever join them. I'm just going to take 5 minutes and be Area Man about it and then got get a popsicle out of the freezer or something.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 1:39 PM on September 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


It has to do with the Trump Foundation criminalities and how everything must be Hillary does worse because Trump can't admit to being evil.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 1:40 PM on September 14, 2017


which were created by an algorithm rather than by people — and said it would explore ways to fix the problem

A cold wind blows.

Of course their fix will be to keep the algorithm. "The gun's fine, it just needs a heavier trigger."
posted by rhizome at 1:45 PM on September 14, 2017 [4 favorites]


who'd have ever thought algorithms could be racist? after all, they're named after Al Gore!
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:48 PM on September 14, 2017 [18 favorites]


I finally got a reply today from the letter I wrote to Hillary around the inauguration. Now I am extremely depressed.
posted by Chrysostom at 1:51 PM on September 14, 2017 [20 favorites]


@Chrysostom: What?! I wanna write Hillary a letter!
posted by gucci mane at 1:55 PM on September 14, 2017 [6 favorites]


This was probably linked to in a previous thread but I'm catching up on Full Frontal and it's worth an encore: their piece on Kris Kobach which finishes up with The Racist Music Man featuring Javier Munoz from Hamilton.
posted by XMLicious at 1:58 PM on September 14, 2017 [6 favorites]


Man, I'm getting whiplash here.

NYT: Trump Now Says He Backs Deal to Protect ‘Dreamers’
... Mr. Trump’s comments seemed to contradict his own Twitter posts from hours before when he said, “no deal was made last night on DACA...

NYT: Conservatives Recoil as Trump Bends on Immigration

Just proves definitively that he didn't understand what he was doing when he revoked DACA, since stirring this particular hornets' nest was a completely optional own-goal.

Oh, and also,
WaPo: GOP’s Ryan dismisses potential DACA deal between Trump and Democrats
posted by RedOrGreen at 1:58 PM on September 14, 2017 [6 favorites]


Here's an article about the guy who answers her mail.
posted by Chrysostom at 1:58 PM on September 14, 2017 [4 favorites]


The Orthodox, of course, are just swell with this.

Um, no. And the "of course" is not just unnecessary, it's insulting. Four non-Orthodox Jewish groups, in a joint statement, preemptively announced they wouldn't take the call, no matter what. Orthodox groups as a rule almost never make joint statements with other branches of Judaism (or other religions, for that matter) - so their not being part of that boycott isn't meaningful. The RCA's only response on the call I've seen was that they weren't committing to whether or not they'd participate - and I know there are many Orthodox groups and rabbis pushing the RCA to pull out as well. I believe Trump has more Orthodox supporters than other denominations (I haven't seen the numbers, but it feels true), but only a little over a third of Orthodox Jews voted for him. I don't understand how anyone can support Trump after Charlottesville, and I especially can't understand how Jews can, but framing the Orthodox Jews who do as especially worthy of censure, more than any of his other supporters, is really problematic.

It's also a tricky call (no pun intended) - if an anti-semitic administration with no problems going on the attack is making an outreach effort toward Jews and no Jews show up, is that good for US Jews? I don't agree with it - especially in this particular circumstance - but the argument that someone needs to show up just out of self-preservation is compelling.
posted by Mchelly at 1:58 PM on September 14, 2017 [16 favorites]


So Spicey was on Kimmel and he's actually kind of...charming?
posted by fluttering hellfire at 2:00 PM on September 14, 2017


I finally got a reply today from the letter I wrote to Hillary around the inauguration.

Oh yeah? Well I get a dozen tweets a week from the guy in office! They are addressed to "the losers and the haters", but I know who he's talking about.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:03 PM on September 14, 2017 [16 favorites]


but framing the Orthodox Jews who do as especially worthy of censure, more than any of his other supporters, is really problematic.

That's fair, and I apologize. I had a particular person in mind with my snark, and it was wrong of me to extrapolate that to a much larger and more diverse group that, as a whole, is far from supportive of Trump and is dealing with the same dangerous stakes as everyone else right now, if not moreso.
posted by zachlipton at 2:06 PM on September 14, 2017 [11 favorites]


“You have some pretty bad dudes on the other side also, and essentially, that’s what I said,” the President continued.

ARE YOU A BAD ENOUGH DUDE TO BE WEAKLY SCOLDED BY THE PRESIDENT?
posted by Strange Interlude at 2:07 PM on September 14, 2017 [34 favorites]


I don't agree with it - especially in this particular circumstance - but the argument that someone needs to show up just out of self-preservation is compelling.

Meh.

Trump has an established history of using disproving minorities as window dressing while he mugs for the cameras.
posted by sebastienbailard at 2:14 PM on September 14, 2017 [7 favorites]




In Month After Charlottesville, Papers Spent as Much Time Condemning Anti-Nazis as Nazis
There were no op-eds or editorials framed as condemnations of “both sides” that spent as much or more time condemning or criticizing neo-Nazis. The “both sides” frame—which was employed by Donald Trump in the wake of the attack, and endorsed by white supremacist David Duke—was almost always used a vehicle to highlight and denounce antifa, with a “to be sure” line about neo-Nazis thrown in for good measure.
posted by ckape at 2:17 PM on September 14, 2017 [43 favorites]


Sen. Schumer on a hot mic on the Senate Floor (my attempt at a transcription):
Sorry. Just got here. Anything new?...He likes us. He likes me anyway. Look, what we said was exactly accurate. Here's what I told him. I said Mr. President, you're much better off if you can sometimes step right and sometimes step left. If you have to step just in one direction, you're boxed. He gets that. Oh it's gonna work out, and it'll make us more productive too.
Is it possible that there's absolutely nothing more to any of this than Trump likes shooting the shit with fellow New Yorker Chuck Schumer and Ryan/McConnell made him look like an idiot? The right is going to completely lose it over "he likes us."

@realDonaldTrump: Spoke to President of Mexico to give condolences on terrible earthquake. Unable to reach for 3 days b/c of his cell phone reception at site.

That...that seems like a really obvious lie someone told him.
posted by zachlipton at 2:23 PM on September 14, 2017 [58 favorites]


Candice Bergen Says Donald Trump Acted Like a ‘Douche’ On Their Date in College
Bergen was promptly pressed for details about the date...and revealed that the future president picked her up while wearing a “three-piece burgundy suit and burgundy patent leather loafers in a burgundy limousine.”

Cohen asked whether there was chemistry during the date, to which Bergen replied that she was “home very early” and that “there was no physical contact whatsoever.” He further inquired whether Bergen found Trump to be alluring or “douchey” at the time – and the actress replied, “He was a good looking guy… and a douche.”
posted by kirkaracha at 2:25 PM on September 14, 2017 [28 favorites]


surely this
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:29 PM on September 14, 2017 [8 favorites]


I believe Trump has more Orthodox supporters than other denominations (I haven't seen the numbers, but it feels true), but only a little over a third of Orthodox Jews voted for him.

This survey by the American Jewish Committee paints a much different picture:
Those who identify as Orthodox were the most supportive of Trump on Election Day and continue to give him high marks. Fifty-four percent of the Orthodox say they voted for Trump, compared to 24% of Conservative, 10% of Reform, 8% of Reconstructionist, and 14% of respondents who identify themselves as “Just Jewish.”

Conversely, Clinton garnered 13% of the Orthodox vote, 60% of Conservative, 78% of Reform, and 89% of Reconstructionist.

On President Trump’s performance to date, 71% of Orthodox respondents, 25% of Conservative, 11% of Reform, 8% of Reconstructionist, and 17% of Just Jewish view it favorably, while 27% of Orthodox, 73% of Conservative, 88% of Reform, 92% of Reconstructionist, and 81% of Just Jewish view his performance unfavorably.
And the lengths to which Orthodox groups have gone out of their way to avoid talking about Charlottesville is also pretty telling:
The Orthodox Union took two days to put out a statement in response to the weekend’s events. And when they finally got around to it, the statement danced around any mention of the Trump administration itself, calling instead on “ local, state and federal officials” to ensure justice is served. The Rabbinical Council of America mourned “violence and bigotry”, but not our leader’s failure to condemn it. Agudath Israel, the organization that represents America’s ultra-Orthodox community, has been totally silent on Charlottesville. Asked for comment, spokesperson Rabbi Avi Shafran wrote that the fact that the Agudah doesn’t issue official statements about hate crimes should itself be seen as “a function of the tragic frequency of hate crimes in our country.”

Then there are the smaller, politically conservative Orthodox rabbinic coalitions. Both TORA, which found time to welcome the appointment of Ambassador David Friedman, and Coalition for Jewish Values, which “advocates for classical Jewish ideas and standards in matters of American public policy,” ignored the weekend’s events entirely.

All of these groups have weighed in on controversies over the last year – just not this one.
It's frustrating that, by and large, they're choosing to stand apart from or even oppose their fellow Jewish Americans, especially to many Jewish Americans.
posted by zombieflanders at 2:39 PM on September 14, 2017 [29 favorites]


Wow. Think Progress: EXCLUSIVE: ESPN tried to kick Jemele Hill off the air and replace her with another black host
ESPN originally tried to keep Hill off the air on Wednesday evening, but Smith refused to do the show without her, the sources said. Both sources also said that producers reached out to two other black ESPN hosts, Michael Eaves and Elle Duncan, to ask them to serve as fill-ins for the show — but Eaves and Duncan did not agree to take the place of Hill and Smith, either.

At 4:30 p.m. on Wednesday afternoon, Eaves expressed his frustration with that day. [tweet from Eaves: Man.. this day got me like..😡🤐😡]

Faced with the possibility of having to replace Hill and Smith with white co-hosts, the sources said, ESPN then called Hill and asked her to come back on her show.
posted by zachlipton at 2:43 PM on September 14, 2017 [62 favorites]


Imagine being that craven.
posted by Atom Eyes at 2:51 PM on September 14, 2017 [15 favorites]


Trump stood behind a silver tin of hoagies, cut in half and wrapped in cellophane.

A+ dangling modifier.
posted by randomination at 2:54 PM on September 14, 2017 [85 favorites]


I'm going to start watching ESPN again so I can boycott them.
posted by tonycpsu at 2:55 PM on September 14, 2017 [9 favorites]


It's frustrating that, by and large, they're choosing to stand apart from or even oppose their fellow Jewish Americans, especially to many Jewish Americans.

Absolutely agreed. But it's also frustrating that so many fellow Jewish Americans stand apart from religious Jews (Orthodox and non-Orthodox) when it comes to opposing anti-semitism on the left. It cuts both ways. We are talking past one another and it needs fixing.

The one thing Trump seems to still be really effective at is increasing divisiveness. There's already too much intra-denominational fighting. I'm hoping we can work harder rather than demonize - especially from within. Anti-semites out there aren't bothered with whether the Jews they hate are Reconstructionist or Satmar. Allowing 'yeah, but these guys, they're the real bad Jews' as acceptable discourse only makes it worse for all Jews.
posted by Mchelly at 2:56 PM on September 14, 2017 [5 favorites]


I was raised Catholic (very Catholic) and married into a Jewish family. I think it is really interesting how the divisions within the Catholic faith right now mirror those within the Jewish faith. To me it seems to come down to this: "Do you fear Muslims more than you fear American neo-Nazis?" Those who do voted for Trump.
posted by OnceUponATime at 3:00 PM on September 14, 2017 [8 favorites]


But it's also frustrating that so many fellow Jewish Americans stand apart from religious Jews (Orthodox and non-Orthodox) when it comes to opposing anti-semitism on the left.

I don't really think it's anywhere near equivalent, neither in prevalence or the power differential, since the anti-Semitism on the right has the full weight of the federal (and much of the state and local) government behind it.

It cuts both ways. We are talking past one another and it needs fixing.

That's true, and it's why we should be also be asking why a small (but powerful) minority is standing opposite a large majority on these issues. I don't think it's fair to just say "both sides do it" and leave it at that.

Anti-semites out there aren't bothered with whether the Jews they hate are Reconstructionist or Satmar.

Honestly, I disagree. Many anti-Semites seem perfectly teaming up with politically-conservative Jews both here and in Israel--just look at the Netanyahus Sr. and Jr. for how it's playing out among folks like David Duke and Richard Spencer--against the rest of the Jewish community. That many Orthodox Jews either can't, or worse, won't see the problem is not something that should be incumbent on other Jews.
posted by zombieflanders at 3:11 PM on September 14, 2017 [16 favorites]




To illustrate what I mean, one of the largest Reform Jewish groups (and ostensibly the official representatives of Reform Judaism) put out a stronger statement against the Chicago Dyke March than the entirety of the Orthodox Jewish movement did against the response to Charlottesville, where there was a murder and actual fucking Nazis chanting actual Nazi slogans proudly and in public, you shouldn't really have to ask yourself where the separation is happening.
posted by zombieflanders at 3:20 PM on September 14, 2017 [13 favorites]


ESPN’s Reprimand of Jemele Hill Reveals How White Supremacy Controls the Media Industry.
The institution of American journalism has long functioned as the white man’s diary. Its authors are white. The executives who hire the talent are almost always white. The audiences to whom they cater are overwhelmingly white; thus, the narratives they insist on consuming are white. Even though, like all industries, white media executives recognize the power of monetizing black talent for white consumption and hire the best and the brightest, like Hill, to bring some flavor to what otherwise would be their unseasoned chicken-breast-style programming.
But that black talent can’t say or do anything that hurts the bottom line or offends the white media barons who profit from it.

posted by adamvasco at 3:33 PM on September 14, 2017 [16 favorites]


both sides (again)
posted by entropicamericana at 3:34 PM on September 14, 2017 [1 favorite]




EXCLUSIVE: ESPN tried to kick Jemele Hill off the air and replace her with another black host

What tha.... Fuck you, ESPN.
posted by Brak at 3:49 PM on September 14, 2017 [9 favorites]


In light of the "Jeff Sessions humiliation" article that came out at about 1pm PT today (BTW, you can really tell who has the NYTimes app installed), I frankly think Trump is doing this DACA deal specifically to punish and spite Jeff Sessions, for whom immigration has always been a major issue. In fact after reading it a couple times, I think the NY Times story was written to imply this conclusion.

I mean, it makes sense in light of Trump's razor and his need to lash out after every narcissistic injury. And assuming that Schumer floor statement quoted above is right, that's some USDA grade A prime bullshit "reasoning" employed to talk him into it - I mean, "you have to step left as well as right to avoid getting boxed in"? Whaaat? Not as a Republican president, OMG.
posted by Joey Buttafoucault at 4:19 PM on September 14, 2017 [8 favorites]


Atlantic The Trump Voter-Fraud Commission's Data Problem
The opening discussion of data, turnout, and policy mattered deeply to the commission, which was chartered by President Trump in May, and has been dogged by allegations that its true purpose is not eliminating voter fraud, but instigating voter suppression. The argument in favor of the legitimacy of the commission has been weakened by the tendency of Trump and Kobach to commit the logical fallacy of begging the question: They have invoked unsubstantiated claims of widespread voter fraud in order to argue for the necessity of a commission to prove that voter fraud exists. And that commission so far—while ostensibly still waiting to analyze numbers from a controversial set of voter data gathered from the states—has simultaneously argued in favor of measures to fight voter fraud, like voter ID, while also arguing that policies to do so won’t suppress votes.[...]

Both the hypothetical presence of voter fraud and the hypothetical lack of voter fraud in analyses would be taken as signals to dig deeper and legislate more.
SF Chronicle Transcript of AP interview with Ryan
The president is talking a lot about bipartisanship right now. He's bringing some Democrats over to the White House. You've talked about being happy to have Democrats come along. But the process, right now, is really just with Republicans when you actually talk through what you want this package to look like. Can you credibly talk about bipartisanship if it's only Republicans at the table?[...]

Ryan: Sure. The last thing we're going to do, though, is give people the ability to filibuster things that we don't have to give the ability to filibuster.

AP: But can it be bipartisanship if this process that you are going through right now, where you're actually laying out your principles, is only involving Republicans?

Ryan: The Republican majority has an obligation and an opportunity to take legislation all the way to the president's desk. And if we have a process that allows us to avoid filibusters, shame on us for not using that process.
But he is sure that "centrist" Democrats will be happy to vote for this bill that they have had no input on. Also he is positive that tax cuts on businesses will lead to wage growth-- you know just like it has every other time businesses get tax cuts.

Ryan also says the cuts will be "revenue neutral" but cannot promise they won't add to the deficit.

Whiff of desperation here?
AP: Do you think you can keep your majority if you don't have action on taxes this year?

Ryan: Look, I don't think there's a point in speculating. I think we're going to keep our majority because, you know what, I think we're going to get this done. I really believe we are going to get this done. And I really believe because we get this done, and the improvement in people's lives, the faster economic growth, that is why I think we will keep our majority.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:21 PM on September 14, 2017 [9 favorites]


SF Chronicle The pro-Russia, pro-weed, pro-Assange GOP congressman who will be tough to beat
Rohrabacher isn’t buying that [wikileaks] conspiracy theory, but he’s deep into another — that Democrats were behind last month’s white nationalist riots in Charlottesville, Va. Oh, and calling them white nationalist riots is a liberal media deceit, he said.

“It’s all baloney,” Rohrabacher said.

Under Rohrabacher’s scenario, a former “Hillary and Bernie supporter” got Civil War re-enactors to gather under the guise of protecting a Robert E. Lee statue there.

“It was a setup for these dumb Civil War re-enactors,” Rohrabacher said. “It was left-wingers who were manipulating them in order to have this confrontation” and to “put our president on the spot.”
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:25 PM on September 14, 2017 [5 favorites]


I'm very much in the no cooperation, no talking, shut him down as hard as possible, camp.

And I'm 100% behind what Pelosi and Schumer did. They played Trump like a rube, inflamed Republican infighting, and probably cost him quite a few cultists. If they can keep that up I'll be totally happy with them.

And also, fuck ESPN and a damn good job the others did standing firm so ESPN couldn't sack Hill. The fact that they tried to is horrifying.
posted by sotonohito at 4:56 PM on September 14, 2017 [41 favorites]


and probably cost him quite a few cultists

They'll still vote for him, and everybody knows it.
posted by rhizome at 5:16 PM on September 14, 2017 [4 favorites]


The won't vote for a Dem, but dampen their spirits a bit and some of them will just stay home.
posted by thefoxgod at 5:19 PM on September 14, 2017 [14 favorites]


An update on what the President is up to tonight:
"I never even knew a category five existed," marveled Trump.

Trump returned to discussing the White House, which he called "a place that I've grown to love and respect." The president said he has hosted "some of the biggest men" from "business and other fields" in the Oval Office. He pointed out he has also had women visit there and noted "some are even bigger than the men."

At 7:57, he yielded the podium to First Lady Melanie Trump. The president introduced her as the "star of the Trump family." The First Lady spoke for about five minutes. As she finished, eagle eared Andrew Beatty of AFP overheard a guest say, "She should run next." Trump also praised her remarks.
posted by zachlipton at 5:34 PM on September 14, 2017 [4 favorites]


Chronicle: Can you credibly talk about bipartisanship if it's only Republicans at the table?[...]

Ryan: Sure. The last thing we're going to do, though, is give people the ability to filibuster things that we don't have to give the ability to filibuster.


Yeah. Sure. What you just said is, we're all for bipartisanship as long as we truly need Democratic votes to pass legislation. I can never decide if I hate Ryan or McConnell more. They are both such completely loathsome people.
posted by Brak at 6:17 PM on September 14, 2017 [14 favorites]


Inside Trump's dalliance with Democrats
Upon hearing it had bipartisan support, the president had one question: “Can I call it ‘repeal and replace’?”

“You can call it whatever you want, Mr. President,” a Democratic lawmaker told Trump, eliciting laughter throughout the room.

The president loved that response.

posted by T.D. Strange at 6:26 PM on September 14, 2017 [23 favorites]


WaPo, Ashley Parker, Trump and Democrats strike DACA deal. Yes? No? Sort of? Trump’s world can be confusing.
At one point, Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross asked, “What exactly does the president get out of this deal?” As Pelosi, the only woman at the table of 11, tried to make her point — that the president gets the cooperation of the Democrats, which he will likely need on a host of issues — the men in the room began talking over her and one another.

“Do the women get to talk around here?” Pelosi interjected, according to two people familiar with the exchange.

There was, at last, silence, and she was not interrupted again.
Meanwhile, Paul Ryan is going to pretend none of this has happened. He's starting a GOP working group to come up with an immigration plan. I suspect it will be as effective as the working groups he's previously formed on health care, the budget, and, um, immigration, none of which have resulted in actual legislation the GOP has made into law.

Hillary is giving a hell of an interview on Maddow if you can tune in.
posted by zachlipton at 6:27 PM on September 14, 2017 [33 favorites]


I am tuning in. There could have been an adult in charge I wouldn't have put on 15lbs of existential despair craft beer and chips and salsa weight since November. At least hockey season is about to start.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 6:39 PM on September 14, 2017 [19 favorites]


Noted that she's wearing a pussyhat pink jacket. What's the emoji where you want to faceplant on your floor and not get up for 3 years?
posted by fluttering hellfire at 6:44 PM on September 14, 2017 [2 favorites]


I don't want that this should scare you, but there's increasingly serious talk of a last-ditch effort to pass Graham-Cassidy in the last week of the month. If McCain really flips, and he's talking like he might, they just might have the votes in the Senate. And the House will be under enormous pressure to do something, anything, even if many in the Freedom Caucus side won't have it. This could all blow up if the CBO score shows up, of course, I'm personally highly skeptical, but they're going to try.

In other words, call your Senators tomorrow morning. If you need a refresher of what's in the bill, the Post's explainer is a good one. This is also an easy one to tell your reps to oppose, even if they don't care about people's health care: unless you're in one of the handful of blue-colored states on that page's map, the bill will take money away from your state. You can always argue that you don't want your state to lose funding.

Second, I know I've started a lot of comments with "um" lately, but, a lot of things are un-worthy. Like: um, I'm beginning to suspect Kelly might just not be the level-headed rationalist we were led to believe. Because what the hell is this garbage?
Mr. Kelly launched into a passionate call for stouter border defenses, including his general support for a beefed-up barrier, offering a remarkably pessimistic view of Mexico’s security situation and political stability.

He likened Mexico, one of the United States’ most important trading and law enforcement partners, to Venezuela under the regime of Hugo Chávez, the former leader, suggesting it was on the verge of a collapse that would have repercussions in the United States, according to two people who attended the meeting.
posted by zachlipton at 7:22 PM on September 14, 2017 [27 favorites]


RED ALERT

Andy Slavitt: BREAKING: Sorry to say I just heard Graham Cassidy now has a plan to get to the floor for a vote this month. 1/ Bill sponsors have been trying to get leadership behind them. Now, Defense finishes up Monday and here are actions I'm hearing... 2/ Timelines being laid out, leadership conducting a a real whip count, press conference w governors being planned, pushing CBO. 3/ Still needs Byrdbath, CBO score & arm twisting, but they have clock time if they push it. As a reminder.👇 4/
Here's a summary of the Graham-Cassidy repeal. Yes, it's that bad.

They're really going to take another run at repealing the ACA before September 30, and McCain has already said he's in favor of this one.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:24 PM on September 14, 2017 [25 favorites]


This is seriously what...the 75th time they've tried to repeal/replace? And that's after they severely hobbled ACA originally. FUCK THESE ASSHOLES.

This is why there needs to be an actual PLAN and not just aspirational thinkies toward single payer/universal.
posted by fluffy battle kitten at 7:39 PM on September 14, 2017 [5 favorites]


Resistbotted faxes to my senators.

( If you've not used ResistBot previously, simply text "Resist" to 50409 and follow the instructions. It allows you to send faxes to your congresspeople via text.)
posted by Joey Michaels at 7:51 PM on September 14, 2017 [5 favorites]


Goddammit, is McCain actually cowed after all that 'one vote' bluster from Trump? FFS you're dying soon, go full IDGAF. Now's your time. Stick it to that asshole. Vote no. Maverick it out into the sunset so someone can write a hagiography of you. Maybe you'll earn that adjective this time. Fuck.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 7:58 PM on September 14, 2017 [8 favorites]


And so to wrap up tonight's broadcast we leave you with this:
Man goes to doctor. Says he's depressed. Says life seems harsh and cruel. Says he feels all alone in a threatening world where what lies ahead is vague and uncertain. Doctor says, "I don't want that this should scare you, but there's increasingly serious talk of a last-ditch effort to pass Graham-Cassidy in the last week of the month. [...] In other words, call your Senators tomorrow morning."

Man bursts into tears. Says, "But doctor ... my Senator is Cassidy.”
Reporting live from New Orleans, I'm komara.
posted by komara at 8:02 PM on September 14, 2017 [57 favorites]


Goddammit, is McCain actually cowed after all that 'one vote' bluster from Trump?

He never said he was against the last one on the merits, ever. His bullshit look-at-me-Im-John-McCain-McCaining-again-because-I'm-John-McCain speech was all about Senate process and return to regular order. He did it to fuck with McConnell and for the press coverage, not for the millions of people would would lose care and the thousands who would die from it. Now that he's had his moment on CNN, well, that was all he really wanted. Time for his grand finale of McCaining before he mercifully leaves this earth.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:02 PM on September 14, 2017 [29 favorites]


Goodbye T.D. Strange, I am spontaneously combusting. You can have the 8 dollars I found in my jeans doing laundry tonight.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 8:08 PM on September 14, 2017 [2 favorites]


As long as you take John McCain with you
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:10 PM on September 14, 2017 [7 favorites]


Time for his grand finale of McCaining before he mercifully leaves this earth.

Oh, I think the ol' feller still has a few left in him.
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:13 PM on September 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


Well, if your Senator is useless, call your Governor. Seriously. "I don't want our Senators to blow up the state budget by taking money away from Medicaid. Please tell them to oppose Graham-Cassidy" is a super important message to spread right now, and it works on elected officials of any party.
posted by zachlipton at 8:17 PM on September 14, 2017 [43 favorites]


Doctor salaries are not the reason why healthcare is so expensive. It's expensive because it's inefficient and byzantine, and there's a multi-billion dollar insurance industry acting as a leech between relationship between the doctors and the patients.

Actually it's both things, but you can summarise the difference between US healthcare costs and, for instance, the UK's NHS by simply noting that it's private, for-profit industry who are setting the prices in one instance and government in the other.
posted by walrus at 8:20 PM on September 14, 2017 [4 favorites]


Been away for bit thanks to Irma, and haven't been following the thread, but it looks like this is new. I'm surprised, because this wraps up religious hypocrisy and racism in a neat little quantified bow (Edsall column, NY Times) :

"In 2011, the Public Religion Research Institute asked voters if 'an elected official who commits an immoral act in their personal life can still behave ethically and fulfill their duties in their public and professional life.'

White evangelical Protestants were the least forgiving. Sixty-one percent said such a politician could not “behave ethically,” twice the 30 percent who felt that such a politician could manage it...

"Five years later, in October, 2016, P.R.R.I. asked the same question. The percentage of white evangelical Protestants who said that a politician who commits an immoral act in their personal life could still behave ethically shot up from 30 to 72 percent."

Gee, what possibly could have changed? If you said, the skin color of the man in the White House, you win!

Grrrrr. This is the closest I've come to white-hot spluttering rage since... well, since Mnuchin and the government jet. When was that? Oh yeah, yesterday.
posted by martin q blank at 8:23 PM on September 14, 2017 [63 favorites]


Let's not lose all hope.

There's still time for McCain to die before this thing comes up for a vote.
posted by CommonSense at 8:26 PM on September 14, 2017 [14 favorites]


Republicans really, really, really want their tax cuts and that is a lot easier to sell if they can get a trillion dollars or so of spending cuts for poor people under their belts. There simply is no other place to get that magnitude of spending cuts without backlash from their base. Without the spending cuts, their tax cuts will blow up the deficit. They are desperate, but it seems like a difficult task with just four business days left before the expiration of the repeal reconciliation bill.
posted by JackFlash at 8:30 PM on September 14, 2017


I know from a cerebral standpoint what's wrong with Republicans, but from an emotional/spiritual/being a human being standpoint I just...I can't figure out what drives a bunch of old men to rub their hands together and drool and relish the thought of taking healthcare away from people. I just can't. It's not just that they want to do it, it's that they're obsessed with it. They go to bed at night dreaming of a world full of people turned away from doctors offices and hospitals, and unable to fill their prescriptions, and unable to access any kind of help. Like I get all the rationale, I get that they think government is bad, that they want to slash taxes and they're using this as a catalyst, that they like it when people are disempowered and downtrodden and dependent. I get it, really. And yet...I will never get it.

The system in the United States is already bad enough. How the fuck do people want to make it worse? It's abhorrent. It's abhorrent to make a profit off of the sick. It's abhorrent to restrict access to lifesaving and health protecting services. It's abhorrent to make sick people think about money while they're sick. I was talking with my husband last night about the difference between the New Zealand and American health systems, and I said that the easiest way to demonstrate the fundamental difference would be to imagine a scenario where I suddenly collapsed unconscious in front of him. In New Zealand he would ring an ambulance. He would have no other thought than "I need help." In America he would probably still ring an ambulance but there would be a parallel thought always of "How much is this going to cost? Is our insurance going to cover it? Are we going to be in debt? Do we have enough money saved? Do we have a credit card we can use?" I do not have words for how utterly repugnant that is to me, that people have to hold dueling priorities in their minds when their only priority should be safety and getting well.

I've lived in NZ for 12 years, and to me needing to worry about paying for hospital services or ambulance rides or whatever is as foreign as the idea of ringing the fire department because my house is burning down and having the firefighters show up and ask me how I'd like to pay before they turn the hoses on.
posted by supercrayon at 8:32 PM on September 14, 2017 [72 favorites]


Well, if your Senator is useless, call your Governor... it works on elected officials of any party.

Not if our governor is a Trump wannabe like Paul LePage, who already has vetoed Medicaid expansion in Maine five times, and currently is busy trying to convince people that Medicaid is really "welfare."
posted by LeLiLo at 8:47 PM on September 14, 2017 [6 favorites]


as foreign as the idea of ringing the fire department because my house is burning down and having the firefighters show up and ask me how I'd like to pay before they turn the hoses on.

Yep. This is also a thing we do in America. (Indeed, such a system would be an improvement on "you didn't pay, so no hoses for you.")
posted by zachlipton at 8:59 PM on September 14, 2017 [4 favorites]


supercrayon: I've lived in NZ for 12 years, and to me needing to worry about paying for hospital services or ambulance rides or whatever is as foreign as the idea of ringing the fire department because my house is burning down and having the firefighters show up and ask me how I'd like to pay before they turn the hoses on.

The scary part is that some of the Tea Party types look favorably upon the latter, too.
posted by Superplin at 9:01 PM on September 14, 2017 [2 favorites]


Yeah, my wife was asking me when its OK to call 911 for someone else, since that could result in a huge ambulance bill. Obviously if someone's going to die its easy, but in a marginal case? Not something she ever had to worry about in Japan.
posted by thefoxgod at 9:06 PM on September 14, 2017 [11 favorites]


*reads last few comments, runs screaming into the night* Nothing means anything anymore wheeeee! 2017 is just this forever and ever.
posted by supercrayon at 9:10 PM on September 14, 2017 [11 favorites]


Fucking idiots like this play right into the right-wing narrative of "violent leftists," and the fucking idiots defending him are worse: UT Austin journalist assaulted while covering protest (Samuel Breslow, SPLC).
A protest at the University of Texas at Austin against a bill banning sanctuary cities in the state turned violent Sept. 1 when a protester hit a Daily Texan reporter, sending him to the hospital.

Chase Karacostas, a city/state reporter for the student newspaper, was conducting a routine interview with a bystander when, he says, a protester approached him, aggressively hitting Karacostas’ phone into his head, where it cut him near his eyebrow.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:15 PM on September 14, 2017 [3 favorites]


Let's be clear, McCain has said that any Obamacare repeal bill must be done through regular order for his support. One news outlet, thehill.com, reported earlier this month that he appeared to be go wobbly a bit by saying that it should be done through regular order but he might vote for it anyway... but McCain released a statement later that day re-affirming that regular order was necessary. Which includes committee hearings and such.

I have no doubt McCain would vote for the substance of this bill despite it being the worst possible health care bill you could draft short of "everyone must swallow these free tapeworm-in-a-pill anti-obesity tablets" legislation. And possibly worse than that. It is certainly reported that Republicans are trying to whip votes by saying that McCain backs the bill. But we don't necessarily know if that means he backs the substance and would vote for it after it moves through regular order, or that he backs the bill being passed before Sept. 30th in more last minute shenanigans. We just don't know, and he isn't saying.

If he votes for it despite the bill not going through regular order it would be the biggest political capitulation I can remember, and would forever destroy his legacy in the eyes of most Americans. I imagine he must know that. I know he's great friends with Graham but I don't know that the friendship rises to the level of knowingly taking his reputation out behind the woodshed and putting a bullet in its head.

I guess we're gonna find out.
posted by Justinian at 9:26 PM on September 14, 2017 [8 favorites]


Yeah, Republicanism is an incredibly malignant cancer of the brain that can never fully be expunged by any known human means. The growth doctors were able to remove from his brain had regrown and subsumed the host before he was wheels up and heading home after voting no.
posted by riverlife at 9:27 PM on September 14, 2017 [2 favorites]


If he votes for it despite the bill not going through regular order it would be the biggest political capitulation I can rememberPAR FOR THE COURSE for John McCain.
posted by darkstar at 9:45 PM on September 14, 2017 [7 favorites]


Is it possible that there's absolutely nothing more to any of this than Trump likes shooting the shit with fellow New Yorker Chuck Schumer and Ryan/McConnell made him look like an idiot?

I mean, nobody should be surprised about this. It is how Trump has been operating his whole life. His administration has been completely batshit and ineffective because it's driven entirely by his fee-fees, and he's an emotionally unstable narcissist in the early stages of Alzheimer's. His talks with Pelosi and Schumer are a novel addition to the endless cycle of him humiliating various Republican suck-ups, but we should have no expectation that they'll result in anything but another gossipy news cycle.

My guess is his flip will happen sooner rather than later because the media narrative is shifting into discussing what a good job Schumer/Pelosi are doing at controlling Trump. Trump's reaction will be to do the opposite of what they want to prove he is independent and smart and a Big Boy who goes to the toilet all by himself.
posted by Anonymous at 9:52 PM on September 14, 2017


I know we like to snark here, but it would absolutely not be par for the course even for John McCain. It would be an unprecedented and shocking reversal.
posted by Justinian at 9:54 PM on September 14, 2017 [3 favorites]


I can't figure out what drives a bunch of old men to rub their hands together and drool and relish the thought of taking healthcare away from people. I just can't.

Near as I can tell: habit, reinforced by years of doubling down in response to challenges rather than taking the more difficult option of thinking them through.

Those old men have been doing the same thing since they were young men whose main political motivator was the gleeful provocation of fury in people they saw as negligible.

Gamergater + passage of time = old Republican.
posted by flabdablet at 9:55 PM on September 14, 2017 [17 favorites]


(To be clear, it might happen. But it would not be standard politics-whaddya-gonna-do stuff.)
posted by Justinian at 9:55 PM on September 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


I hear ya, but for those of us in Arizona afflicted with "Jukebox John" changing his tune literally dozens and dozens of times over the past 31 years, his flip-flopping even on big issues is all too standard. It wouldn't shock me a bit if he were to vote for Graham-Cassidy.
posted by darkstar at 10:02 PM on September 14, 2017 [5 favorites]


Claudia Rankine in NYT Magazine: Was Charlottesville the Exception or the Rule?
“It is important that we do not reify institutions by presuming they are simply given and that they decide what we do,” writes the British-Australian theorist Sara Ahmed. “Rather, institutions become given, as an effect of the repetition of decisions made over time, which shapes the surface of institutional spaces.” If we replace Ahmed’s use of the word “institution” with “government,” we can begin to understand how much the path of history still remains in our hands.
posted by runcifex at 10:22 PM on September 14, 2017 [6 favorites]


Personally, I am beyond being shocked by ANYthing at this point (though horror and dismay are still working just fine). If McCain stood up and ripped his face off to reveal an alien lizard, and then the alien lizard ripped ITS face off to reveal a talking potato that wanted nothing more than deny the poors healthcare, I would think, "Ah. Shoulda seen that coming."
posted by thebrokedown at 10:41 PM on September 14, 2017 [34 favorites]


On the Humiliation of Sessions: Those "humiliated", or about to be "humiliated" by Trump have always had the Rudolf Hess option. It's not likely that the NORAD will actually "crash" a passenger jetliner, amirite?
posted by runcifex at 10:56 PM on September 14, 2017 [4 favorites]


reddit's /r/politics:

Can't wait for the TV show
If you watch it backwards, it'll be a show about an ex-convict who becomes president immediately after leaving prison. He then proceeds to reverse the effects of climate change, welcomes thousands of immigrants into the country, drains the swamp by firing a bunch of incompetent and corrupt cabinet members, and makes America great again.
And then hires a bunch of people on his own reality show and gives a bunch of money to his dad.
And watches two russian women clean a pee soaked bed
posted by sebastienbailard at 12:22 AM on September 15, 2017 [38 favorites]


Is it possible that there's absolutely nothing more to any of this than Trump likes shooting the shit with fellow New Yorker Chuck Schumer and Ryan/McConnell made him look like an idiot?

In the days after the election, when I was somewhere in the Bargaining phase I think, one of he scenarios I pictured where we survived involved some brave patriot laying down their dignity for the good of us all and going into the belly of the whale to assume a position where they could flatter, schmooze and bullshit the child and chief out of wrecking everything. And while in the past he has frustrated and disappointed me more times than I can count, right now I'm looking at any guy like New York smarm master Chuck Schumer like alright buddy the Mooch did what he could, this is your moment.
posted by EatTheWeek at 12:36 AM on September 15, 2017 [11 favorites]


Trust, Schumer-man-who-has-given-the-same-speech-to-me-directly-five-times is not a smarm master but Trump seems like a -10 kind of target so maybe it works. The trick is to just be the last guy who talks to him, like if we got a communist to follow him around we'd have collectivized land and all power to the soviets in a week.
posted by The Whelk at 1:00 AM on September 15, 2017 [24 favorites]


We've had another terrorist incident in London (explosion at Parsons Green tube).

Place your bets:

a) How long for a tweet from Trump?
b) Will he criticise Sadiq Khan again?
posted by MattWPBS at 3:19 AM on September 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


About 20 minutes (SAIT.)
posted by emelenjr at 3:46 AM on September 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


For the Twitphobic, like myself:

"@realdonaldtrump Another attack in London by a loser terrorist.These are sick and demented people who were in the sights of Scotland Yard. Must be proactive!
3:42 AM - 15 Sep 2017"

Good g-d, man. GO TO SLEEP.
posted by petebest at 4:00 AM on September 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


6:42 on the East Coast (I think?)
But I'd be fine if Trump slept through most of his administration, so sure.
posted by snuffleupagus at 4:03 AM on September 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


Six minutes after that "loser terrorist" tweet:
Loser terrorists must be dealt with in a much tougher manner.The internet is their main recruitment tool which we must cut off & use better!
Goes down well with Steve, Ainsley and Brian over at Fox & Friends, I guess.
posted by Mister Bijou at 4:15 AM on September 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


Goes down well with Steve, Ainsley and Brian over at Fox & Friends, I guess.

EDIT: This morning's ready-made talking points for Steve, Ainsley and Brian.
posted by Mister Bijou at 4:19 AM on September 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


Brandon Carter (The Hill): California legislature passes bill requiring presidential candidates to release tax returns
The California State Assembly on Thursday passed a bill that would require all presidential candidates to release their tax returns prior to being placed on the state’s ballot.
posted by bardophile at 4:22 AM on September 15, 2017 [65 favorites]


Five so far:
@realDonaldTrump Another attack in London by a loser terrorist.These are sick and demented people who were in the sights of Scotland Yard. Must be proactive!
@realDonaldTrump Loser terrorists must be dealt with in a much tougher manner.The internet is their main recruitment tool which we must cut off & use better!
@realDonaldTrump The travel ban into the United States should be far larger, tougher and more specific-but stupidly, that would not be politically correct!
@realDonaldTrump We have made more progress in the last nine months against ISIS than the Obama Administration has made in 8 years.Must be proactive & nasty!
@realDonaldTrump ESPN is paying a really big price for its politics (and bad programming). People are dumping it in RECORD numbers. Apologize for untruth!
Apparently he already knows who the responsible parties are, and how they were recruited. Call to be 'nasty' is worrying, and he still can't recognise the difference between 'politically incorrect' and 'illegal'.

What the hell is he angry at ESPN for? I thought they were just a sports network?
posted by MattWPBS at 4:30 AM on September 15, 2017 [11 favorites]


Someone gave him back his twitter account. In the last half hour, he's said the travel ban should be broader, and called out ESPN for... basically not firing someone.

I'm going to take this as proof that one of his alt-right minions was in charge of his account for the last few months, because they never sound as unhinged as this. (Yes, that's right, I'm saying the alt-right Nazis, KKK, etc that the government employs at the highest level sound less horrible than Trump.)
posted by Yowser at 4:30 AM on September 15, 2017


So his tweetstorm this morning has:

1) Attacked filibuster
2) Called the terrorists losers, but didn't express any concern or sympathy for the 18 victims
3) Possibly revealed classified info that the terrorists had been in the sights of Scotland Yard
4) Called for limiting the internet for possible terrorists
5) Called for a bigger stronger Muslim Ban. And attacked opposition as stupid political correctness
6) Lied about his and Obama's progress against ISIS
7) Attacked ESPN and demanded an apology from Jemelle Hill.

Can we go find all the Independent/Non-Partisan Dealmaker articles and tweets and revoke their journalism card?
posted by chris24 at 4:33 AM on September 15, 2017 [36 favorites]


What the hell is he angry at ESPN for?

ESPN's Jemelle Hil has been a Fox & Friends talking point for the past three or four days. She called Trump a "white supremacist".
posted by Mister Bijou at 4:36 AM on September 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


The internet is their main recruitment tool which we must cut off & use better!

Wait, so we have to cut it off and use it better?
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 4:42 AM on September 15, 2017 [8 favorites]


It took pressure from the very top, but the CIA finally managed to get Chelsea Manning disinvited from a fellowship at Harvard. Way to stand your ground, Harvard.
posted by Yowser at 4:49 AM on September 15, 2017 [19 favorites]


Meanwhile at least 80 people died in yesterday's bombing in Iraq and no comment from our *president. Sadly that's probably for the better he doesn't comment on it.

It's so jarring to see some people in this administration or echo chamber argue for military solutions in NK or Iran when they don't own up to the mess in Iraq that the USA created was from the same type of thinking. Do their long term outloook and consequences for war always look rosy?

Is it too much to ask for them to think through the unintended consequences of war?

Going to go watch this Doctor Who scene again.
posted by dealing away at 5:29 AM on September 15, 2017 [11 favorites]


Must be proactive & nasty!
Crazy old man does love the word "nasty," doesn't he?
posted by octobersurprise at 5:56 AM on September 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


Way to stand your ground, Harvard.

VE•RY•NAH

posted by snuffleupagus at 5:58 AM on September 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


President Trump, if you're nasty.
posted by kirkaracha at 6:14 AM on September 15, 2017


On the slightly lighter side of things, various wags on Twitter have been suggesting that Sbarro's planned expansion into Russia is some sort of black ops retaliation for election interference:

Ben Pershing: "Finally, we hit back."
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 6:18 AM on September 15, 2017 [10 favorites]


It's so jarring to see some people in this administration or echo chamber argue for military solutions in NK or Iran when they don't own up to the mess in Iraq that the USA created was from the same type of thinking. Do their long term outloook and consequences for war always look rosy?
"The read we get on the people of Iraq is there is no question but what they want to the get rid of Saddam Hussein and they will welcome as liberators the United States when we come to do that."
That's what Cheney said about the Iraq War before starting. I don't know whether he actually believe that (seeing as he was going to make a fuckton of money on Iraq no matter how much of a shithole it became) but they were sure as hell touting that the Iraqis would become flag waving proponents of American democracy and capitalism.
posted by Talez at 6:28 AM on September 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


Julia Machester, The Hill: Mnuchin: I had no interest in eclipse because ‘I’m a New Yorker’

“People in Kentucky took this stuff very seriously. Being a New Yorker, I don’t have any interest in watching the eclipse,” Mnuchin said on Thursday, according to The Washington Post.

That Mnuchin is one smooth, savvy operator. Really has his finger on the pulse of the Forgotten American.
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:40 AM on September 15, 2017 [57 favorites]


Not that facts matter anymore or anything but I spent most of the eclipse in Bryant Park in the middle of NYC with about 5,000 people (possibly even more) who seemed pretty damn interested in the fucking eclipse.
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 6:45 AM on September 15, 2017 [18 favorites]


“People in Kentucky took this stuff very seriously. Being a New Yorker, I don’t have any interest in watching the eclipse,” Mnuchin said on Thursday, according to The Washington Post.

God, he and his wife are a perfectly matched set of assholes, aren't they.
posted by palomar at 6:47 AM on September 15, 2017 [72 favorites]


I'm beginning to think Mnuchin sees this whole Secretary of the Treasury business as a boondoggle.

Maybe his former employer might like to audit his old expense reports. Sheesh.
posted by notyou at 6:48 AM on September 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


Being a New Yorker, I don’t have any interest in watching the eclipse,

Plz go jump off a cliff
posted by dis_integration at 6:51 AM on September 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


"Being a New Yorker, I don’t have any interest in watching the eclipse,”

What does this even mean? Neil deGrasse Tyson is a New Yorker. New Yorkers get excited about Manhattanhenge. I don't think this is right. I don't think you're a New Yorker, Steve. Let me see how you eat a slice of pie.
posted by Capt. Renault at 6:54 AM on September 15, 2017 [29 favorites]


Mnuchin: "As a real New Yorker, I was too busy feeding incompetent servants to the eels"
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:05 AM on September 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


British to POTUS: You aren't helping.
posted by mcdoublewide at 7:14 AM on September 15, 2017 [14 favorites]


It looks like my grad school alma mater is planning to host Betsty DeVos as commencement speaker. The kids are protesting, which gives me hope. Me, I just phoned the alumni office and told them that if they go through with this they can just take me off their mailing list because they'll never get a dime in donations.

Not that I've ever donated anything, but it's the thought that counts.
posted by Faint of Butt at 7:14 AM on September 15, 2017 [34 favorites]


Happy to note that my alma mater is having Bree Newsome speak at commencement.
posted by Sophie1 at 7:18 AM on September 15, 2017 [26 favorites]


“The university stands for freedom of speech,” Schmoke said. “My bottom line conclusion is the university stands for debate on controversial issues."

Debating controversial issues is well within the mandate of any university. Endorsing and rewarding those controversial views, well, there's no requirement for that. You've picked your side, Schmoke, and now you own it.
posted by Capt. Renault at 7:30 AM on September 15, 2017 [24 favorites]


St. Louis is probably going to have riots today. I hope Trump gets in his helicopter and goes to Bedminster ASAP and we stay off his radar.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 7:35 AM on September 15, 2017 [6 favorites]


In case, like me, you weren't sure what fluttering hellfire was talking about, I believe it's this:

Ex-St. Louis cop found not guilty of murder in on-duty shooting of black man in 2011
posted by paper chromatographologist at 7:44 AM on September 15, 2017 [21 favorites]


NB, this STL cop planted a gun on the guy he killed, was on tape saying "I'm going to kill him" during the chase, and chose a bench trial.

The judge wouldn't convict him.
posted by Talez at 7:46 AM on September 15, 2017 [59 favorites]


The travel ban into the United States should be far larger, tougher and more specific-but stupidly, that would not be politically correct!

There you have it folks; the most powerful person in the world is still victim to the only force more powerful than he: political correctness gone mad.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:49 AM on September 15, 2017 [9 favorites]


Yeah, that's riot-worthy.
posted by Faint of Butt at 7:49 AM on September 15, 2017 [10 favorites]


Sorry for being unclear, this is the local coverage.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 7:50 AM on September 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


NB, this STL cop planted a gun on the guy he killed, was on tape saying "I'm going to kill him" during the chase, and chose a bench trial.

He was too fucking dumb to wipe the gun off and get his victim's prints and DNA on it and he still got off. The judge is an accessory after the fact.
posted by Pope Guilty at 7:59 AM on September 15, 2017 [74 favorites]


Mnuchin: I had no interest in eclipse because ‘I’m a New Yorker’

“People in Kentucky took this stuff very seriously. Being a New Yorker, I don’t have any interest in watching the eclipse,” Mnuchin said on Thursday, according to The Washington Post.


Capt. Renault: What does this even mean? Neil deGrasse Tyson is a New Yorker. New Yorkers get excited about Manhattanhenge. I don't think this is right. I don't think you're a New Yorker, Steve. Let me see how you eat a slice of pie.

Mnuchin viewed the eclipse with Mitch McConnell, who posted a photo of them with eclipse glasses, so he's basically shading McConnell either about posting the photo ("You gave them evidence!") or caring about the eclipse at all. I honestly could see him not caring about the eclipse, but instead just taking a government jet to see all the gold with his terrible wife for funsies because the world is a playground for them. It would be an equal waste of tax payer money, but I'd say actually worse, because at least if you were chasing the eclipse it shows some sort of intellectual curiosity.
posted by bluecore at 8:00 AM on September 15, 2017 [9 favorites]


NB, this STL cop planted a gun on the guy he killed, was on tape saying "I'm going to kill him" during the chase, and chose a bench trial.

The judge wouldn't convict him.


I'm firmly of the belief that one reform we need is to ban bench trials for law enforcement officials on trial for crimes committed while on duty.
posted by NoxAeternum at 8:01 AM on September 15, 2017 [22 favorites]


I'd honestly be happy with the feds taking their bite at the apple rather than leaving it to states to nullify either by jury or judge.
posted by Talez at 8:04 AM on September 15, 2017


I'd honestly be happy with the feds taking their bite at the apple rather than leaving it to states to nullify either by jury or judge.

The feds at the moment are Jeff Sessions, who is all in favor of cops extrajudicially robbing and murdering black people, so IDK how that helps all that much.
posted by Pope Guilty at 8:06 AM on September 15, 2017 [19 favorites]


Of course their fix will be to keep the algorithm. "The gun's fine, it just needs a heavier trigger."

Well sure, why not? The problem isn't the tool they've chosen to use, the problem is that they're not checking to see if it's working the way they want. It's a QA problem.

Banks use all kind of algorithms to make credit decisions. Part of my job at one such bank is supporting the teams of folks that test all of our various automated processes to make sure that they're in compliance with all relevant regulations. That alone encompasses a LOT of testing but there are other teams in other areas of the bank that also test to make sure we're getting the results we expect in terms of portfolio performance and default rates and abstract stuff like "customer experience".

We know our algorithms aren't racist aren't doing anything else too hinky because we test them. Then we document that testing, then we test those tests, then we assess the testing program. It's QA testing all the way down.

Facebook, if you need someone to help build out your QA program, I'm available (for an exorbitant salary, I like my job and the company I do it for a lot).
posted by VTX at 8:10 AM on September 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


Resistbotted to Gov Roy Cooper since Burr and Tillis are useless bags of wind.
posted by yoga at 8:18 AM on September 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


Of course their fix will be to keep the algorithm. "The gun's fine, it just needs a heavier trigger."

The cop violated basic firearms safety (Cooper's Rules).

1. All guns are always loaded. Even if they are not, treat them as if they are.
2. Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy. (For those who insist that this particular gun is unloaded, see Rule 1.)
3. Keep your finger off the trigger till your sights are on the target. This is the Golden Rule. Its violation is directly responsible for about 60 percent of inadvertent discharges.
4. Identify your target, and what is behind it. Never shoot at anything that you have not positively identified.

In fact pretty much all cops do. There are no accidental shootings. It's either gross negligence or murder.
posted by mikelieman at 8:19 AM on September 15, 2017 [21 favorites]



I'm firmly of the belief that one reform we need is to ban bench trials for law enforcement officials on trial for crimes committed while on duty.


if we did that we'd be left with jury trials which haven't got any better of a track record, though, really.

I don't know what the fuck we do about the endemic racist police violence problem in this country - im pretty sure the judicial branch is not going to solve the issue. I think if states passed laws providing for damages to be paid out of pension funds you might see a slightly more serious response from the so-called "good apples" (although frankly im not sure they exist).
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 8:21 AM on September 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


if we did that we'd be left with jury trials which haven't got any better of a track record, though, really.

Jury trials require the Prosecutor to throw the case.

The root cause is "you have to take the cop's word that they believed they acted to save their lives." It's a pretty egregious instance of denial of "Equal Protection of the Law" that no-one but police get to play that card in court.
posted by mikelieman at 8:25 AM on September 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


To just give the detail from Theresa May's statement that McDoubleWide's linked earlier.

She was asked directly about his tweet where he said that these were terrorists that Scotland Yard had in their sights. Her direct reply was “I never think it’s helpful for anybody to speculate on what is an ongoing investigation.”.
posted by MattWPBS at 8:29 AM on September 15, 2017 [7 favorites]


Sickest Mnuchin burn of the morning, from Kentucky Congressman John Yarmuth (@RepJohnYarmuth):

"The guy who made the Entourage movie thinks he knows what people want to watch. Hysterical"
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 8:36 AM on September 15, 2017 [70 favorites]


Let me see how you eat a slice of pie.

And how he drinks a cup of coffee!
posted by jgirl at 8:38 AM on September 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


I think if states passed laws providing for damages to be paid out of pension funds you might see a slightly more serious response from the so-called "good apples" (although frankly im not sure they exist).

Honestly qualified immunity for police officers should be ended and they should be forced to take up brutality insurance. Raise the wages for a one time amount to compensate then let the market not insure the bad apples and bad districts.
posted by Talez at 8:39 AM on September 15, 2017 [19 favorites]


Honestly qualified immunity for police officers should be ended and they should be forced to take up brutality insurance. Raise the wages for a one time amount to compensate then let the market not insure the bad apples and bad districts.

If doctors need malpractice insurance, why shouldn't professional law enforcement? Why should THE TAXPAYER subsidize the "bad apples"?
posted by mikelieman at 8:40 AM on September 15, 2017 [30 favorites]


How about we just end the ability of anyone to ever waive the right to a trial by jury?

No plea bargaining, ever. No bench trials, ever. It's one of those practices that sounds like it'd be a good idea, but in practice it just doesn't work.

That would require we have significantly more judges, juries, and public defenders. That sounds fine by me. If the USA wants to arrest so damn many people it can at the very least pay for doing it the right way rather than cheaping out and tossing the (mostly black) people rounded up by the thousand in prison after a plea bargain.
posted by sotonohito at 8:53 AM on September 15, 2017 [13 favorites]




Politico argues pretty persuasively that Trump is trying to work with Democrats because he is bored of trying to work with Republicans and he doesn't think it has resulted in "wins". It will be fascinating to see whether Ryan and McConnell are willing or able to prevent Trump-supported legislation reaching the floor.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:54 AM on September 15, 2017 [8 favorites]


sure, pretend like you don't know what steve mnuchin's talking about because you are too virtuous to understand. I will be the asshole and spell it out, why not. ok, in kentucky you get an eclipse maybe every 20-50 years but in new york they have street vendors selling eclipses on every corner. A of all they are better eclipses because they are made with new york water, just a little rust in the pipes gives them a piquancy and a bite you will never get in a soft pathetic flabby kentucky eclipse, B of all only tourists get excited about new york eclipses, everybody else ate like fifty of them before they turned twelve and only buys one every now and then for nostalgia. and C of all eclipses are last year's cronut. by the time you've heard of them in kentucky they've been over for three years. AT LEAST.

[mind you if I were him I would have meant what's the point of looking at a partial eclipse from the northerly states, it's only a big deal if you live far enough south to see the full darkness effect. I would also have meant I am afeared of eclipses ever since I read Dolores Claiborne and Gerald's Game back to back but I am a big tough treasury secretary who cannot admit to reading a couple of books, even a couple of bad books.]
posted by queenofbithynia at 8:58 AM on September 15, 2017 [28 favorites]


Have you called your congresspeople about Graham-Cassidy (the current ACA repeal bill)? This one is, like all the others, horrible. 32 million people will lose health insurance. Pre-existing condition coverage protections gone. Gutting medicaid.

It's exhausting keeping on top of everything that's going on. It's frustrating having to beg our elected officials not to kill us. And yet, please call. Even if you've got senators who won't budge (well, hello there Senator Toomey) call. Congresspeople talk to each other. When more moderate GOP senators hear that all of their colleagues are getting innundated with call, it makes a difference.
posted by mcduff at 9:01 AM on September 15, 2017 [16 favorites]


The root cause is "you have to take the cop's word that they believed they acted to save their lives."

The root cause is "you have to take the cop's word", full stop. In every encounter between a citizen and a police officer, the police officer's word counts for at least twice as much - from traffic tickets all the way up to murder. That's the heart of the problem. They're used to being sanctioned by law as more important.
posted by corb at 9:04 AM on September 15, 2017 [26 favorites]


I think its also a good time to note that with all procedural doors to getting the "bad apples" out of the police force tied up in a Gordian knot of BS, bad acting, and judicial prejudice, we need to take the Alexandrian solution.

Any police officer involved in the death of anyone needs to be instantly fired and forever prohibited from being a cop anywhere for the rest of their lives. If there is any question about which cop was responsible for a death, all possible suspects are fired and subject to a lifelong ban on being cops.

Likewise, to make it harder for police to murder people we need to take their guns away. No cop shall go armed as a routine part of their job. An armed response team should be available for quick dispatch if necessary, and maybe, possibly, a shotgun loaded with stun rounds should be locked in the trunk of a squad car. Otherwise all cops should be prohibited from carrying guns or tazers.

If they're going to erect a blue wall of protection around the "bad cops" (which, I still insist means they're all bad), if the court system is going to systemically protect the murderous slime in uniform, then the only solution remaining is to sidestep the protections they're erecting.

Yes, firing any cop who is involved in any on duty death is a bit draconian. But the alternative is, apparently, to allow the police to be roving death squads who murder black people and plant evidence on their bodies without any punishment at all.

I don't like zero tolerance policies. They're stupid, inflexible, and produce bad results. But at this point, where has been conclusively demonstrated over the course of decades that the police can murder black men (and boys) with utter impunity and any effort to reign in their murderous rampages will be stymied by both the police and the courts, then a bad zero tolerance policy is better than the status quo.
posted by sotonohito at 9:04 AM on September 15, 2017 [21 favorites]


The judge justified his ruling in explicitly racist terms: "Finally, the Court observes, based on its nearly thirty years on the bench, that an urban heroin dealer not in possession of a firearm would be an anomaly."

Prima facie evidence of judicial racial bias.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:09 AM on September 15, 2017 [88 favorites]


What a shitstain.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:12 AM on September 15, 2017 [10 favorites]


It is a truth universally acknowledged, that a black man in possession of heroin, must not be in want of a gun.
--Jane Austen, Pride and Extremely Goddamned Prejudiced
posted by Faint of Butt at 9:14 AM on September 15, 2017 [110 favorites]


an urban heroin dealer not in possession of a firearm would be an anomaly.

Right, because a rural heroin dealer wouldn't be expected to carry a gun. Insultingly piss-poor dogwhistling. Just go ahead and say what you're thinking, asshole.
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:15 AM on September 15, 2017 [44 favorites]


No, you see, the Amish sometimes deal drugs too but they only carry rakes and pitchforks.
posted by delfin at 9:28 AM on September 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


I'm against mandatory minimums but maybe we need them for LEOs who break the law in the line of duty, separate from any other charges.
posted by Room 641-A at 9:30 AM on September 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


James Downie: The loss of morality in America’s health-care debate
As Jared Bernstein wrote on Thursday, “for far too long, Democrats have way over-negotiated with themselves, starting debates where they wanted to end up.” Sanders and his allies recognize this — as reflected in their no-holds-barred defense of Obamacare this year — and are trying to change the party’s mind-set.

“But the terms of a policy debate inevitably depend on the status quo,” comes the reply. No, they are entirely arbitrary. Take, for example, the narrower question of whether universal coverage would be cheaper than the United States’ status quo. Universal-coverage supporters can point to evidence from around the world, yet detractors can only offer hypotheses why that wouldn’t work here. And yet, according to party establishments and many media outlets, the side without evidence gets taken at face value. If more liberals and (especially) centrists wanted to return to the moral calculus used earlier this year, they could do so tomorrow — and they should.

Disagreeing with the details of Sanders’s proposal is fine — there are other ways to reach the same goal within the decade. But those who argue for incrementalism, who want to make the goal more modest, should be asked: “How much longer do millions stay without insurance? How much longer do families have to deal with the insecurity of sky-high health costs? How much longer can anyone’s savings be wiped out because of one accident?” For anyone who honestly believes that lack of insurance or skyrocketing health costs is an outrage, the first question is not “How will you change the status quo?” or “Who will pay for it?” It is “How will you achieve affordable care for all?” Any other frame is a moral betrayal.
posted by zombieflanders at 9:38 AM on September 15, 2017 [29 favorites]


On the slightly lighter side of things, various wags on Twitter have been suggesting that Sbarro's planned expansion into Russia is some sort of black ops retaliation for election interference:

Ah yes. The famous "Deep-dish State".
posted by sebastienbailard at 9:38 AM on September 15, 2017 [20 favorites]


That judge needs to be removed. It's too bad they can't prosecute again and get a real trial instead of a wink and a nod trial. Is is really double jeopardy if the defendant was never actually in jeopardy?
posted by double block and bleed at 9:45 AM on September 15, 2017 [9 favorites]


Judge is retiring in December. MO has a mandatory retirement age of 70.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 9:50 AM on September 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


Mister Bijou: “ESPN's Jemelle Hil has been a Fox & Friends talking point for the past three or four days. She called Trump a "white supremacist".”
“Why are you watching the 6 o'clock SportsCenter? It's ‘too late to cover last night’s games and too early to cover tonight’s.’
“Same reason I subscribed to The Washington Post. See, what had happened was, Tru….”
“Nope. I don't want to know.”


P.S Link goes to an excellent article in The Ringer about Hill and SC6 and how this situation came to be.
posted by ob1quixote at 9:53 AM on September 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


Finally, the Court observes, based on its nearly thirty years on the bench, that an urban heroin dealer not in possession of a firearm would be an anomaly."

A shame the Court didn't see fit to devote some meager portion of those nearly thirty years of jurisprudence to reading the evidence code -- particularly, the rules governing judicial notice and due process in criminal proceedings.
posted by snuffleupagus at 10:20 AM on September 15, 2017 [18 favorites]


I'm against mandatory minimums but maybe we need them for LEOs who break the law in the line of duty, separate from any other charges.

Making it easier for them to be personally sued would help. After all, based on nearly forty years of citizenship, for a bigoted and murderous cop not to also be a greedy coward would be an anomaly.

Come to think of it, maybe states/cities should compel their state/city attorneys to seek indemnification for the civil rights judgments they have to pay out after officers act abusively from the officers themselves.
posted by snuffleupagus at 10:25 AM on September 15, 2017 [10 favorites]


Pence's press secretary jumping ship.

Perhaps the saddest part is that he never got to meet the vice-pope.
posted by sebastienbailard at 10:34 AM on September 15, 2017 [35 favorites]


Hi! My name is darkstar and I'll be your waiter for the evening. May I suggest starting off with a new thread? (it's wafer thin!)

NEW THREAD --->

NEW THREAD --->

NEW THREAD --->
posted by darkstar at 10:36 AM on September 15, 2017 [42 favorites]


Take, for example, the narrower question of whether universal coverage would be cheaper than the United States’ status quo. Universal-coverage supporters can point to evidence from around the world, yet detractors can only offer hypotheses why that wouldn’t work here.

That sentence nicely sums up the depravity of modern movement conservatism. Liberals use a fact-based approach to policy -- given the goal of reducing the number of uninsured and the political constraints of the time, for example, Obamacare may not have been perfect but it was successful at achieving the goal -- while conservatives start from the desired outcome and craft arguments to support their desired outcome, regardless of facts.

They top their hands, too, when they say that Democrats "want" high taxes or big government -- no, they don't want those things as an end in themselves, but only as a means of achieving their policy goals.

If low taxes and small government would reduce income inequality, provide universal access to health care, reduce poverty, and guarantee good, safe, high-paying jobs for any American who wanted one, Democrats would be all for it. But the evidence shows, low taxes and small government doesn't lead to that outcome at all.

On the other hand, Republicans want low taxes and small government, and don't seem to mid those outcomes as long as they don't get blamed for it at the ballot box.
posted by Gelatin at 10:39 AM on September 15, 2017 [17 favorites]


VIRGINIA HOUSE ELECTIONS - HD 36-40

intro
1-5
6-10
11-15
16-20
21-25
26-30
31-35

===

36th District
Currently Dem seat
R cand: none
D cand: Ken Plum (incumbent)

DC suburbs (Fairfax), 66.7% white. Incumbent first elected in 1981. No R candidate in 2013 or 2015. Clinton won district 69-25.

===

37th District
Currently Dem seat
R cand: none
D cand: David Bulova (incumbent)

DC suburbs (Fairfax), 59.0% white. Incumbent first elected in 2005. D won 61-39 in 2013 and 57-43 in 2015. Clinton won district 66-28.

===

38th District
Currently Dem seat
R cand: Paul Haring
D cand: Kaye Kory (incumbent)

DC suburbs (Fairfax), 52.6% white. Incumbent first elected in 2009. No R candidate in 2013 or 2015. Clinton won district 71-24.

===

39th District
Currently Dem seat
R cand: none
D cand: Vivian Watts (incumbent)

DC suburbs (Fairfax), 58.1% white. Incumbent first elected in 1995. No R candidate in 2013 or 2015. Clinton won district 67-28.

===

40th District
Currently GOP seat
R cand: Tim Hugo (incumbent)
D cand: Donte Tanner

DC suburbs (Prince Willian), 69.2% white. Incumbent first elected in 2003. R won 60-40 in 2013 and 65-35 in 2015. Clinton won district 53-42. Flippable Potential district.

===

Next time: 41-45.
posted by Chrysostom at 11:05 AM on September 15, 2017 [21 favorites]


good thing we went to costco for these things 🍪🍪🍪🥛
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 1:02 PM on September 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


As terrible and obnoxious as cable packages and the media monopolies around sports broadcasting are, at least we can know know that the people threatening to cancel ESPN are definitely full of shit.
posted by OverlappingElvis at 1:26 PM on September 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


Candice Bergen Says Donald Trump Acted Like a ‘Douche’ On Their Date in College

This Metafilter comment is dedicated to all the women who turned down "that guy" and lived happily ever after.

In other words, this comment is essentially dedicated to all women.
posted by orange swan at 8:03 AM on September 18, 2017 [5 favorites]


"You ever make it with Charlie McCarthy?"
posted by rhizome at 10:13 AM on September 18, 2017


At 7:57, he yielded the podium to First Lady Melanie Trump. The president introduced her as the "star of the Trump family." The First Lady spoke for about five minutes. As she finished, eagle eared Andrew Beatty of AFP overheard a guest say, "She should run next." Trump also praised her remarks.

More and more like Bizarro World all the time.
posted by Mental Wimp at 1:04 AM on September 19, 2017


The guest went on to say "ha ha, I am such a vapid starfucker that I don't know that one of the few hard-wired limitations on who can be president is that they need to be born a citizen. But it's not like we just spent near to a decade implying our last president didn't meet that criteria. Somehow that doesn't seem to bother me about this lady, I wonder what's different here? Oh right, blackity black black."
posted by phearlez at 8:23 AM on September 19, 2017 [4 favorites]


Melania Trump to condemn bullying at U.N. luncheon

"I take an uncompromising stand against anyone being mean to white former models who are married to wealthy, corrupt, abusive men who bully others."
posted by orange swan at 9:48 AM on September 20, 2017


> and here's https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/sep/10/aung-san-suu-kyi-myanmar-rohingya-human-rights rightly told off for not speaking more loudly about Rohinga persecution.

'A lot of fake news': Burmese back Aung San Suu Kyi on Rohingya crisis. Critics say opposition to military’s bloody crackdown on country’s Muslim minority is silenced by fear, suspicion and propaganda
posted by homunculus at 3:40 PM on September 20, 2017


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