Judgment Day in EVE Online (again)
September 14, 2017 2:28 PM Subscribe
EVE Online is infamous for its scammers, pirates, and ne’er-do-wells, but this week all their scams were put to shame. A member of the game’s Council of Stellar Management and head diplomat of the Circle of Two alliance named The Judge stole all of the holdings of the 4,000-person alliance for himself. He took their money, took their ships, and sold their Death Star-esque space citadel to their most hated enemies.Another story about backstabbing & betrayal in EVE Online for your enjoyment. (But if you want something more meaty, The Empires of EVE podcast is right up your street.)
Playing that game must be like wearing a kick me sign in jr high.
posted by Beholder at 2:45 PM on September 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Beholder at 2:45 PM on September 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
I will never tire of EVE drama.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 2:54 PM on September 14, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 2:54 PM on September 14, 2017 [8 favorites]
I would happily play a grand strategy board game based on high-level EVE politics.
(I will never actually play EVE because I would never get anywhere near the high-level politics. Most likely I'd end up mining for 600 hours only to get ganked for my plagioclase ore.)
posted by Iridic at 3:00 PM on September 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
(I will never actually play EVE because I would never get anywhere near the high-level politics. Most likely I'd end up mining for 600 hours only to get ganked for my plagioclase ore.)
posted by Iridic at 3:00 PM on September 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
I would happily play a grand strategy board game based on high-level EVE politics.
Have you tried Diplomacy?
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 3:20 PM on September 14, 2017 [18 favorites]
Have you tried Diplomacy?
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 3:20 PM on September 14, 2017 [18 favorites]
TEST EMBEZZLEMENT PLEASE IGNORE
posted by infinitewindow at 3:22 PM on September 14, 2017 [33 favorites]
posted by infinitewindow at 3:22 PM on September 14, 2017 [33 favorites]
I love that Aryth took one of the game developers in to his confidence at a fancy sit-down meal, laid out his plans, and that said dev kept it under his hat so as to let things play out naturally.
I've never played EVE and very likely never will - but I really enjoy reading these stories of massive subterfuge, betrayal and so on.
Totally right for Gigx to get entirely banned for asking for dox, threatening IRL harm, etc. though - if you don't want to risk being on the receiving end of mega-backstabs, don't be playing high-level EVE.
posted by BuxtonTheRed at 3:37 PM on September 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
I've never played EVE and very likely never will - but I really enjoy reading these stories of massive subterfuge, betrayal and so on.
Totally right for Gigx to get entirely banned for asking for dox, threatening IRL harm, etc. though - if you don't want to risk being on the receiving end of mega-backstabs, don't be playing high-level EVE.
posted by BuxtonTheRed at 3:37 PM on September 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
Fun as these stories are, it really sucks for the thousands of line members who just had their daily lives in game totally destroyed, and who will likely never be able to get their assets out.
That said: leave null drama behind! Come to wormhole space! Einstein-Rosen Brigade is recruiting!
posted by gsh at 3:51 PM on September 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
That said: leave null drama behind! Come to wormhole space! Einstein-Rosen Brigade is recruiting!
posted by gsh at 3:51 PM on September 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
As is EvE-Scout/Signal Cartel! Leave violence and aggression behind! Become a wandering space hippie!
One thing to keep in mind is that none of these events happen in a vacuum (no, not even the vacuum of space). We even here on MeFi discussed early last year the war that laid the seeds of this latest dramatic turn. This is how it goes. As always, it will be fascinating to see where we go from here. The Blue Donut triumphs, for a time, but inevitably something will shake loose and war will erupt again.
If there's anyone left playing by then, of course.
posted by The Nutmeg of Consolation at 4:40 PM on September 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
One thing to keep in mind is that none of these events happen in a vacuum (no, not even the vacuum of space). We even here on MeFi discussed early last year the war that laid the seeds of this latest dramatic turn. This is how it goes. As always, it will be fascinating to see where we go from here. The Blue Donut triumphs, for a time, but inevitably something will shake loose and war will erupt again.
If there's anyone left playing by then, of course.
posted by The Nutmeg of Consolation at 4:40 PM on September 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
I won't edit to add: latest news is that the Goons have flipped the Keepstar to Test. CO2 and Test famously have been buddies for the past year, and were reluctant adversaries for the putative conflict (despite the conflicting narratives pushed by their respective leaderships, the line members retained strong ties). Now the line members of CO2 should have an easier time extracting their assets.
posted by The Nutmeg of Consolation at 4:47 PM on September 14, 2017
posted by The Nutmeg of Consolation at 4:47 PM on September 14, 2017
really sucks for the thousands of line members who just had their daily lives in game totally destroyed, and who will likely never be able to get their assets out
Firesale! I'm sure they're getting decent bids for their assets by the goons hell-camping their station. They should be able to sell most of their big ticket items for 70-80% of market price, or more.
posted by ryanrs at 5:13 PM on September 14, 2017
Firesale! I'm sure they're getting decent bids for their assets by the goons hell-camping their station. They should be able to sell most of their big ticket items for 70-80% of market price, or more.
posted by ryanrs at 5:13 PM on September 14, 2017
Goons have flipped the Keepstar to Test
Transaction history:
- Judge steals Keepstar from CO2
- Judge sells it to Goons for 300B
- Goons sell it TEST for 400B
Profit!
edit: 100B = US$1,165
posted by ryanrs at 5:17 PM on September 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
Transaction history:
- Judge steals Keepstar from CO2
- Judge sells it to Goons for 300B
- Goons sell it TEST for 400B
Profit!
edit: 100B = US$1,165
posted by ryanrs at 5:17 PM on September 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
I love that Aryth took one of the game developers in to his confidence at a fancy sit-down meal, laid out his plans, and that said dev kept it under his hat so as to let things play out naturally.
Even this is part of a long con.
As a CSM Rep, Aryth has signed NDAs with CCP and is theoretically privy to quite a few dev secrets, but repeated CSM leaks have made CCP employees very wary. By letting a dev in on these plans, Aryth makes the dev feel like he owes Aryth some reciprocation, even if he only feels it on a subconscious level.
posted by ryanrs at 5:31 PM on September 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
Even this is part of a long con.
As a CSM Rep, Aryth has signed NDAs with CCP and is theoretically privy to quite a few dev secrets, but repeated CSM leaks have made CCP employees very wary. By letting a dev in on these plans, Aryth makes the dev feel like he owes Aryth some reciprocation, even if he only feels it on a subconscious level.
posted by ryanrs at 5:31 PM on September 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
I actually kind of feel for Gigx. This appears to have been a one time thing, at a time when tempers were pretty naturally running high. I can see a sixth month or one year ban, but under these particular circumstances a permaban seems a bit much.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 5:38 PM on September 14, 2017
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 5:38 PM on September 14, 2017
I love that Aryth took one of the game developers in to his confidence at a fancy sit-down meal, laid out his plans, and that said dev kept it under his hat so as to let things play out naturally.
Even this is part of a long con.
Hmmm. Now I wonder if I misunderstood. The way I read it, at the dinner, Aryth told the tale of the war as a way of subtly seducing The Judge. It was all part of the patter --- A proving his sympathy toward The Judge by presenting his tale of woe to a neutral third party, in the guise of lifting the curtain on the metagame. "You want to know how this really works? Listen to how these dickholes are screwing over my friend here." With The Judge nodding along in the background, "yeah, that's right. That's right! They really are bastards, aren't they. Poor old me." Thus leaving him susceptible to the pitch.
In a way it reminds me of Othello and Desdemona...an offhand tale well-told that seduces the listener. But in this case there's the little extra fillip, that he aims his tale at the dev to better seem like he's just recounting the facts of the matter, not trying to butter anyone up...
posted by Diablevert at 5:42 PM on September 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
Even this is part of a long con.
Hmmm. Now I wonder if I misunderstood. The way I read it, at the dinner, Aryth told the tale of the war as a way of subtly seducing The Judge. It was all part of the patter --- A proving his sympathy toward The Judge by presenting his tale of woe to a neutral third party, in the guise of lifting the curtain on the metagame. "You want to know how this really works? Listen to how these dickholes are screwing over my friend here." With The Judge nodding along in the background, "yeah, that's right. That's right! They really are bastards, aren't they. Poor old me." Thus leaving him susceptible to the pitch.
In a way it reminds me of Othello and Desdemona...an offhand tale well-told that seduces the listener. But in this case there's the little extra fillip, that he aims his tale at the dev to better seem like he's just recounting the facts of the matter, not trying to butter anyone up...
posted by Diablevert at 5:42 PM on September 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
As an American, I kind of wish I lived in EVE Online. It seems so sane there.
posted by GenjiandProust at 5:43 PM on September 14, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by GenjiandProust at 5:43 PM on September 14, 2017 [11 favorites]
Gigx had a reputation for making shitty real-life threats. When that ban came down, nobody was saying "this is so out of character for him". Because it wasn't.
posted by ryanrs at 5:45 PM on September 14, 2017
posted by ryanrs at 5:45 PM on September 14, 2017
I like the idea of this game. Correction, I like the idea of being someone who enjoys playing this game. Every 3 years I convince myself that it's worth trying again and I shell out some money for a one or two month subscription. And then I immediately hate myself for wasting my money because 5 minutes into the game and I realize its just not for me.
That being said, I love reading about this game and all of the online political/social drama built into the universe. And I always appreciate it when I see it pop up on the blue. Huzzah.
posted by Fizz at 6:22 PM on September 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
That being said, I love reading about this game and all of the online political/social drama built into the universe. And I always appreciate it when I see it pop up on the blue. Huzzah.
posted by Fizz at 6:22 PM on September 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
I love that Aryth took one of the game developers in to his confidence at a fancy sit-down meal, laid out his plans, and that said dev kept it under his hat so as to let things play out naturally.
As much as I like Ian M. Banks, this is some cyberpunk post-singularity Synth Mega Corp dickery. Player of Games? Check this action!
posted by Slap*Happy at 6:48 PM on September 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
As much as I like Ian M. Banks, this is some cyberpunk post-singularity Synth Mega Corp dickery. Player of Games? Check this action!
posted by Slap*Happy at 6:48 PM on September 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
The difference between fictional cyberpunk post-singularity virtual worlds and the real cyberpunk post-singularity virtual world will be the soul-crushing lag.
posted by ryanrs at 7:19 PM on September 14, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by ryanrs at 7:19 PM on September 14, 2017 [8 favorites]
Abuse of power comes as no surprise
posted by Homeskillet Freshy Fresh at 7:46 PM on September 14, 2017
posted by Homeskillet Freshy Fresh at 7:46 PM on September 14, 2017
Abuse of power is basically the objective in EVE Online.
posted by ryanrs at 8:16 PM on September 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by ryanrs at 8:16 PM on September 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
I actually kind of feel for Gigx. This appears to have been a one time thing, at a time when tempers were pretty naturally running high. I can see a sixth month or one year ban, but under these particular circumstances a permaban seems a bit much.
So are you saying it was a Heated Gaming Moment?
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 8:28 PM on September 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
So are you saying it was a Heated Gaming Moment?
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 8:28 PM on September 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
EVE is good shit these days. PINTO is pretty sleepy but a few of us still hang about with our, very culturally compatible, mates in Solitude these days. We've had a sequence of very good fights, actually content filled war declarations (given and received), and are eagerly awaiting the moon refinery expansion that will, ya'know, shift from absentee moon mining into actively rewarding those who can and do control and operate in their own space. It's gonna do odd things to the market and to space ownership in the short term but MOON ZAPPING LASERS FROM ORBITAL BATTLESTATIONS!!! Need I say more?
Cue the shameless pitch but if you want to join a good group, ping me and I'll get you sorted/fast tracked for where we are now.
If you've quit to never come back and had a horde of stuff sitting somewhere then feel free to install and log in as a non-paying alpha and transfer said stuff to us and I'll put it to good use exploding and helping out others new to the game. I'll help with that process too of course. Prefer you to join us but understand that it's not for everyone these days. /shameless pitch
posted by RolandOfEld at 9:18 PM on September 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
Cue the shameless pitch but if you want to join a good group, ping me and I'll get you sorted/fast tracked for where we are now.
If you've quit to never come back and had a horde of stuff sitting somewhere then feel free to install and log in as a non-paying alpha and transfer said stuff to us and I'll put it to good use exploding and helping out others new to the game. I'll help with that process too of course. Prefer you to join us but understand that it's not for everyone these days. /shameless pitch
posted by RolandOfEld at 9:18 PM on September 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
Abuse of power is basically the objective in EVE Online.
Functionally and practically I don't disagree with you, and you've been in game far longer and in more serious ways than I have... but damn I couldn't imagine this as being my personal objective in EVE.
When I first heard it described as a "MUD with flashy lights" I knew I was in trouble. "Spreadsheets in Space" gets thrown around a fair bit as well but I don't feel like that does it justice either.
Anyway, I see it as more of a game about managing information, and being in chatrooms with a dash of strategic planning and A LOT of teamwork, the likes of which I've NEVER found even approached in another game, thrown into the mix. That with a hearty helping of good nature and willingness to die and start, if not over, again at least, not unlike a multi player rougelike... that makes for a really fun game most evenings. That and the permanence and sandbox nature, of course, but I'll stop there.
posted by RolandOfEld at 9:23 PM on September 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
Functionally and practically I don't disagree with you, and you've been in game far longer and in more serious ways than I have... but damn I couldn't imagine this as being my personal objective in EVE.
When I first heard it described as a "MUD with flashy lights" I knew I was in trouble. "Spreadsheets in Space" gets thrown around a fair bit as well but I don't feel like that does it justice either.
Anyway, I see it as more of a game about managing information, and being in chatrooms with a dash of strategic planning and A LOT of teamwork, the likes of which I've NEVER found even approached in another game, thrown into the mix. That with a hearty helping of good nature and willingness to die and start, if not over, again at least, not unlike a multi player rougelike... that makes for a really fun game most evenings. That and the permanence and sandbox nature, of course, but I'll stop there.
posted by RolandOfEld at 9:23 PM on September 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
As an American, I kind of wish I lived in EVE Online. It seems so sane there.
Capsuleers are immortal in the sense that they instantly respawn to their medical clones when they die. Their ship's crews (which vary from ship size to ship size) are not.
So, what I'm saying is (at least as I understand the lore anyway), that it's practically the logical extension of the way America seems to be heading at times taken to the nth degree if you think about it.
posted by RolandOfEld at 9:27 PM on September 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
Capsuleers are immortal in the sense that they instantly respawn to their medical clones when they die. Their ship's crews (which vary from ship size to ship size) are not.
So, what I'm saying is (at least as I understand the lore anyway), that it's practically the logical extension of the way America seems to be heading at times taken to the nth degree if you think about it.
posted by RolandOfEld at 9:27 PM on September 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
Another great EVE story is fine enough- that it's GF destroying a giant rival? Even better.
posted by Pope Guilty at 9:37 PM on September 14, 2017
posted by Pope Guilty at 9:37 PM on September 14, 2017
damn I couldn't imagine this as being my personal objective in EVE
You're right, me neither. Grand, cinematic backstabbing is actually pretty rare, but it sure does make the news when it happens. The big heists are mostly from formerly loyal people turning to the dark side, not schemes that were planned out from the start. EVE is known for long-term treachery, but 5+ years of scheming is a bit much, even in EVE.
posted by ryanrs at 9:38 PM on September 14, 2017
You're right, me neither. Grand, cinematic backstabbing is actually pretty rare, but it sure does make the news when it happens. The big heists are mostly from formerly loyal people turning to the dark side, not schemes that were planned out from the start. EVE is known for long-term treachery, but 5+ years of scheming is a bit much, even in EVE.
posted by ryanrs at 9:38 PM on September 14, 2017
Gigx had a reputation for making shitty real-life threats. When that ban came down, nobody was saying "this is so out of character for him". Because it wasn't.
So what happens when a player is banned? Does everything they owned just *poof* disappear? Or does it get released back into the ecosystem/economy?
posted by thecjm at 9:40 PM on September 14, 2017
So what happens when a player is banned? Does everything they owned just *poof* disappear? Or does it get released back into the ecosystem/economy?
posted by thecjm at 9:40 PM on September 14, 2017
Pope Guilty, I wouldn't call CO2 a giant rival. They were less than a tenth of Goonswarm's size. The narrative is the defeat of a filthy traitor, not the toppling of a superpower.
posted by ryanrs at 9:41 PM on September 14, 2017
posted by ryanrs at 9:41 PM on September 14, 2017
So what happens when a player is banned?
Nothing changes. Their character retains possession of all their assets. If they are CEO of a corp, they stay CEO. If they have sole possession of corp assets or shares, they retain sole possession. Basically nothing happens at all.
But they can never log in. Heh.
posted by ryanrs at 9:43 PM on September 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
Nothing changes. Their character retains possession of all their assets. If they are CEO of a corp, they stay CEO. If they have sole possession of corp assets or shares, they retain sole possession. Basically nothing happens at all.
But they can never log in. Heh.
posted by ryanrs at 9:43 PM on September 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
So practically speaking, what happens to C02 when their CEO can never again log in? Can they oust him in abstentia or do they have to all leave the corp and reincorporate with new leadership?
posted by thecjm at 10:00 PM on September 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by thecjm at 10:00 PM on September 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
The Gigx character was not CEO of a large member corp. He was CEO of a small holding corp that served as the executor of the CO2 alliance. The other corps in the alliance can hold a vote to designate a different executor corp, which they have done.
If Gigx the person had another character that was CEO of a large member corp (a corp with many humans, not just his own alts), then that corp is possibly fucked, depending. If other people hold corp shares, they can nominate a new CEO and put forth a vote. Since Gigx is banned, he can't vote his shares against the proposal, so a new CEO can be elected. But since the EVE shareholder mechanics open you up to unexpected takeovers, it is common for the CEO to hold all the shares.
I think corp members can petition CCP to appoint a new CEO if the current CEO has not logged into the game in a long time (months). But that's more for things like real life death or similar. I think in the case of a banning, CCP's position is "lol fuck you" (but I'm not sure about that). In general, CCP is pretty scorched-earth about their bans and any in-game repercussions.
In this particular case, I expect various CO2 member corps to join other alliances, and many CO2 members to join other corps. Goonswarm in particular has encouraged the poaching of CO2 line members. But any CO2 corp CEOs or directors who were present when CO2 switched sides in the Casino War are blacklisted.
posted by ryanrs at 10:23 PM on September 14, 2017
If Gigx the person had another character that was CEO of a large member corp (a corp with many humans, not just his own alts), then that corp is possibly fucked, depending. If other people hold corp shares, they can nominate a new CEO and put forth a vote. Since Gigx is banned, he can't vote his shares against the proposal, so a new CEO can be elected. But since the EVE shareholder mechanics open you up to unexpected takeovers, it is common for the CEO to hold all the shares.
I think corp members can petition CCP to appoint a new CEO if the current CEO has not logged into the game in a long time (months). But that's more for things like real life death or similar. I think in the case of a banning, CCP's position is "lol fuck you" (but I'm not sure about that). In general, CCP is pretty scorched-earth about their bans and any in-game repercussions.
In this particular case, I expect various CO2 member corps to join other alliances, and many CO2 members to join other corps. Goonswarm in particular has encouraged the poaching of CO2 line members. But any CO2 corp CEOs or directors who were present when CO2 switched sides in the Casino War are blacklisted.
posted by ryanrs at 10:23 PM on September 14, 2017
If someone could wed the solo-play option of Elite:Dangerous with the mining mechanics of EVE Online, I would throw (a reasonable portion of) ALL MY MONEY at them. I like only having to worry about NPCs shooting my ship out from under me in Elite, but the mining system bores me to tears. I had a lot more fun with it in EVE, but the constant keeping one eye open for gankers was nerve-wracking.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 1:42 AM on September 15, 2017
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 1:42 AM on September 15, 2017
Cue the shameless pitch but if you want to join a good group, ping me and I'll get you sorted/fast tracked for where we are now.
I opened this thread to say something nostalgic about how I miss EVE, but oh it's too much effort, wouldn't go back. Nope, definitely not. Well maybe not. Well... maybe...
Sigh.
Do you have room for an ex-PINTO casual from a few years ago, who just wants to log in sometimes, mine a few rocks and shoot a few rats?
posted by Catseye at 5:36 AM on September 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
I opened this thread to say something nostalgic about how I miss EVE, but oh it's too much effort, wouldn't go back. Nope, definitely not. Well maybe not. Well... maybe...
Sigh.
Do you have room for an ex-PINTO casual from a few years ago, who just wants to log in sometimes, mine a few rocks and shoot a few rats?
posted by Catseye at 5:36 AM on September 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
Over three days later, and still no art from Cymek. The anticipation of his response is killing me! Perhaps he'll do something like a pietà, with MMD in the Mary role, cradling the lifeless body of ... whatever that CO2 figure was.
posted by The Nutmeg of Consolation at 7:19 AM on September 15, 2017
posted by The Nutmeg of Consolation at 7:19 AM on September 15, 2017
Do you have room for an ex-PINTO casual from a few years ago, who just wants to log in sometimes, mine a few rocks and shoot a few rats?
OF COURSE. First mining ship is on me!
posted by RolandOfEld at 8:27 AM on September 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
OF COURSE. First mining ship is on me!
posted by RolandOfEld at 8:27 AM on September 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
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