You raised my hopes and dashed them quite expertly, sir. Bravo!
September 15, 2017 10:34 AM Subscribe

It’s Schrodinger’s President! Chuck and Nancy have a deal with Trump on DACA…or do they? Republicans are outraged at Trump’s unilateral caving…or are they? Trump likes to wait for the facts before commenting on a terrorist attack…or does he? Back channels are working on cooling down the North Korea nuclear crisis…or are they? The GOP attempt to repeal the ACA is dead…or is it?
posted by darkstar (2208 comments total) 113 users marked this as a favorite

A new thread! It's like witnessing the birth of a star or something -- you know it happens all the time, but to actually catch it..!
posted by Capt. Renault at 10:38 AM on September 15, 2017 [71 favorites]

Listening to Wharf Rat right now, darkstar. Thanks.
posted by kingless at 10:39 AM on September 15, 2017 [6 favorites]

Dude, I can't take this.

Is it malicious, all of them? Or so they really still think that they are Doing The Peoples' Business?
posted by wenestvedt at 10:39 AM on September 15, 2017 [2 favorites]

Donnie loves stuff he's familiar with, and you can bet shooting the shit with guys like Chuck Schumer is a lot more comfortable to him than dealing with Mitch "can't disguise how much he dislikes you" McConnell and Paul "Stepford Eddie Munster" Ryan.

And everyone praises him and calls him "Presidential" and "Bipartisan!" Even the Fox News gang! He's loving this.
posted by leotrotsky at 10:40 AM on September 15, 2017 [27 favorites]

Good work on the title, now can someone tell me where I can find the Farnsworth Parabox so I can get to a saner place?
posted by Behemoth at 10:40 AM on September 15, 2017 [11 favorites]

So good to finally find the top of the thread. This must be what it's like to dig your way back to the surface after being buried alive.
posted by Strange Interlude at 10:41 AM on September 15, 2017 [12 favorites]

It’s Schrodinger’s President

but it's Pandora's box.
posted by snuffleupagus at 10:41 AM on September 15, 2017 [26 favorites]

Whenever you see Trump "turning over a new leaf," or "pivoting", or whatever they wanna call it, remember that to have a change of heart, you've gotta have one.
posted by sutt at 10:42 AM on September 15, 2017 [27 favorites]

So much optimism at the top of new threads.
posted by mazola at 10:42 AM on September 15, 2017 [8 favorites]

Less Schrodinger's Cat and more Simon's Cat, I think.
posted by oneswellfoop at 10:42 AM on September 15, 2017 [5 favorites]

Is it malicious, all of them? Or so they really still think that they are Doing The Peoples' Business?

Of course Republicans think they're doing the peoples' business. The oil people, the hedge fund people, the payday loan people...
posted by Gelatin at 10:45 AM on September 15, 2017 [24 favorites]

Summer might be winding down but you can still get your Trump Tweet Flip Flops for wearing around the house.
posted by msbutah at 10:46 AM on September 15, 2017 [3 favorites]

This must be what it's like to dig your way back to the surface after being buried alive.

Not as much as you'd expect.

Um, or... so I've heard...
posted by GenjiandProust at 10:48 AM on September 15, 2017 [4 favorites]

I'm a white male aged 35-100. People vote for me to be president no matter how dumb my ideas.
posted by Talez at 10:51 AM on September 15, 2017 [27 favorites]

Finally! The guy that heads the Face-Eating Leopards Party and reads that fucking Snake Poem at rallies has come 'round to our side!
posted by Cookiebastard at 10:54 AM on September 15, 2017 [60 favorites]

It also occurs to me that at this point the Republic is just obeying the second law of thermodynamics.
posted by Talez at 10:54 AM on September 15, 2017 [5 favorites]

For those not familiar:

Schrodinger: the blond kid who played the piano.
Chuck: What Peppermint Patty called Charlie Brown.
Nancy: Frizzy-haired friend of Sluggo.
Trump: Oxford Dictionary. Verb [informal] Break wind audibly.
DACA: What's up?
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 10:54 AM on September 15, 2017 [40 favorites]

also...

The Donald: A Duck, Uncle Scrooge's oldest nephew
posted by oneswellfoop at 10:56 AM on September 15, 2017 [5 favorites]

mazola: "So much optimism at the top of new threads."

Here's some optimism: Someday this nightmare will end. Donald Trump can't be president forever. That gives me a glimmer of hope.
posted by double block and bleed at 10:56 AM on September 15, 2017 [14 favorites]

in the irradiated wastelands of FutureEarth, mutant bards will sing of the great battles between the giants Maga and Daca
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:57 AM on September 15, 2017 [62 favorites]

DACA: What's up?

ACADACA:

Trumper! Trumper! Trumper! Trumper!
I was caught
In the middle of a Texan desert
I looked round
And I knew there was no going northward
My mind raced
And I thought what could I do
And I knew
There was no healthcare, no healthcare from you
You've been.... Trumpenstruck!
posted by Talez at 11:01 AM on September 15, 2017 [6 favorites]

I can't help but think this sudden coziness with the Dems is a set-up of some kind.
posted by Thorzdad at 11:02 AM on September 15, 2017 [11 favorites]

Trump calls single-payer 'a curse'—here's what data from other countries actually show

The Rude Pundit: An American in the UK National Health Service
posted by homunculus at 11:02 AM on September 15, 2017 [16 favorites]

DarMAGA and Jelad at Tenagra
DACA when the walls fell.
posted by Sophie1 at 11:04 AM on September 15, 2017 [60 favorites]

Trump's support has surely eroded since the inauguration, but I don't know why anyone expects his core supporters to abandon him over flip-flops, incompetence, or betrayal of the GOP. He's still doing great at the one policy they elected him for: causing agony to us sanctimonious, know-it-all liberals. Trumpism is an ideology of spite, not policy.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 11:05 AM on September 15, 2017 [65 favorites]

I can't help but think this sudden coziness with the Dems is a set-up of some kind.

He literally just realized that people "really fucking hate" him, and he's looking for a win.
posted by sutt at 11:07 AM on September 15, 2017 [8 favorites]

I can't help but think this sudden coziness with the Dems is a set-up of some kind.

Set ups require thinking and planning ahead. What indications has Trump given you of this capacity?
posted by leotrotsky at 11:08 AM on September 15, 2017 [3 favorites]

I can't help but think this sudden coziness with the Dems is a set-up of some kind.

I would agree, and I am 100% sure Trump will turn around and do something awful soon, but I can't imagine Trump as the kind of person who has plans or strategies. So I can't call it a set-up. This week he's mad at McConnell and Ryan and next week he'll remember he's a racist who wants to burn everything Obama did to the ground.
posted by Glibpaxman at 11:09 AM on September 15, 2017 [8 favorites]

How. Is. There. Always. A. Tweet? (or two)

From 2013 and 2014.

@realDonaldTrump
.@ESPN’s apology (Brent Musburger) was a disgrace to broadcasting --- stop being so politically correct!

@realDonaldTrump
Obama has admitted that he spends his mornings watching @ESPN. Then he plays golf, fundraises & grants amnesty to illegals.
posted by chris24 at 11:10 AM on September 15, 2017 [31 favorites]

The UK NHS situation is ... complicated. Many people are paying to have certain types of operations and procedures done privately, rather than wait months, sometimes many months, in pain or with deteriorating health. This is often not cheap, so it's a case of if you have savings, or can take out a loan, or if you have private medical cover or insurance. (And as for dental - it's really not good here) I can see this trend continuing, probably accelerating, for various largely funding-related reasons.

Of course, having the NHS as default means there is something substantive there covering most (though not all) health conditions, and you have to directly pay very little or nothing at all for most things on it. And if it's an emergency, you go in and don't have the additional stress of "Can I afford this?" or not, if you are still conscious. But there's better - with more condition coverage and much shorter waiting times - national health services in other countries than in the UK.
posted by Wordshore at 11:13 AM on September 15, 2017 [6 favorites]

I can't help but think this sudden coziness with the Dems is a set-up of some kind.

I wouldn't turn my back on this guy until he stops breathing. And even then, I'd stick a pin in him to make sure he isn't playing dead just to hear the eulogies.
posted by pracowity at 11:17 AM on September 15, 2017 [41 favorites]

for various largely funding-related reasons.

Yeah, it's important when looking at the UK's health system to remember that their right-wingers are right up there with the U.S.' national GOP in their devotion to cutting public services because Fuck You, Give Us Money, and they've had a lot more time in power in which to do damage.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 11:18 AM on September 15, 2017 [26 favorites]

Trump's support has surely eroded since the inauguration, but I don't know why anyone expects his core supporters to abandon him over flip-flops, incompetence, or betrayal of the GOP. He's still doing great at the one policy they elected him for: causing agony to us sanctimonious, know-it-all liberals. Trumpism is an ideology of spite, not policy.

Trump Says Jump. His Supporters Ask, How High?

Michael Barber and Jeremy C. Pope, political scientists at Brigham Young University, reported in their recent paper “Does Party Trump Ideology? Disentangling Party and Ideology in America,” that many Republican voters are:

"malleable to the point of innocence, and self-reported expressions of ideological fealty are quickly abandoned for policies that — once endorsed by a well-known party leader — run contrary to that expressed ideology."

Those most willing to adjust their positions on ten issues ranging from abortion to guns to taxes are firm Republicans, Trump loyalists, self-identified conservatives and low information Republicans.

The Barber-Pope study suggests that for many Republicans partisan identification is more a tribal affiliation than an ideological commitment.

Many partisans are, in effect, more aligned with the leader of their party than with the principles of the party. (Although Barber and Pope confined their study to Republicans, they note that Democrats may “react in similar ways given the right set of circumstances.”)

posted by Sangermaine at 11:18 AM on September 15, 2017 [13 favorites]

Is it malicious, all of them? Or so they really still think that they are Doing The Peoples' Business?

That mostly depends on your definitions of "doing," "the people," and "business."
posted by duffell at 11:22 AM on September 15, 2017 [7 favorites]

In other things I wouldn't have believed until I saw them this week, Kid Rock appears to be doubling down on the Senate run rumors..

These idiots can't get anything right: Caligula appointed his horse to the Senate, not his horse's ass.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 11:22 AM on September 15, 2017 [45 favorites]

> "The UK NHS situation is ... complicated."

Having lived in both places, the UK system is unquestionably better than the U.S. system. There is no comparison. None.

The Tories might someday completely fuck it up to the point that this is no longer true, but they haven't yet. Nowhere close.
posted by kyrademon at 11:22 AM on September 15, 2017 [25 favorites]

I would take an actual horse in the Senate any day over most of these fuckers.
posted by lydhre at 11:25 AM on September 15, 2017 [19 favorites]

I can't help but think this sudden coziness with the Dems is a set-up of some kind.

Give Schumer and Pelosi some credit. They don't care if it's a set up. They're not really losing anything, and they know better than to trust Trump. It sucks if Trump pulls the rug out from under them, but if he does, they're just in the same position they were before, and the fight to protect the Dreamers and all the rest of it keeps on keeping on. If Schumer and Pelosi get fucked over, they can look very disappointed and concerned and make the appropriate noises about how they tried to come to a bipartisan solution, and they negotiated in good faith, but the president didn't keep his promises, which is, of course, a sad pattern with even his campaign promises to his supporters, but Dems are trying to govern for everybody and and and, you see where I'm going, surely.
posted by yasaman at 11:26 AM on September 15, 2017 [127 favorites]

And there is no setup, just chaos. It's what happens when the President is a horrible whirling void filled with nothing but ego and stupidity.
posted by lydhre at 11:26 AM on September 15, 2017 [9 favorites]

These idiots can't get anything right: Caligula appointed his horse to the Senate, not his horse's ass.

It's difficult to know what he's really on about, though:

No kidding, gun slinging, spurs hitting the floor
Call me Hoss, I'm the Boss, with the sauce in the horse
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 11:26 AM on September 15, 2017 [2 favorites]

Thorzdad I can't help but think this sudden coziness with the Dems is a set-up of some kind.

Eh, setup implies planning, and Trump is not a planner.

If you mean "can we trust Trump", the answer is of course not.

If you mean "will Trump eventually (that is, within a few days) break faith on this deal", the answer is of course.

And I'm sure that Schumer and Pelosi know that and are planning on it. I **HOPE** that they just did this because they knew they could play Trump like a rube and sew more chaos in the Republican Party, because the Republicans being too busy fighting each other to destroy everything is really all we can hope will keep us alive until 2018.

I don't think Trump plans on double crossing Pelosi and Schumer anymore than he plans to keep breathing, it's just something he does as naturally as he breathes. Trump is a betrayer. He has no honor, no faith, no loyalty, and he will never keep to a bargain. That's not a planned setup, that's just Trump being the same vile waste of oxygen he's always been.

Which is why I'm glad all Pelosi and Schumer gave him was the sort of transparently fake praise that he so desperately craves rather than any actual policy concessions or promises. If the cost is just a couple of political leaders buttering up Trump, than the gain in terms of Republican chaos is well worth it. If they'd actually promised anything, or worse signed anything away on the expectation of Trump keeping up his side of a bargain they'd be fools and suckers. But much as I don't care for either Schumer or Pelosi I don't think either of them is a fool or a sucker.
posted by sotonohito at 11:30 AM on September 15, 2017 [38 favorites]

"malleable to the point of innocence, and self-reported expressions of ideological fealty are quickly abandoned for policies that — once endorsed by a well-known party leader — run contrary to that expressed ideology."

Thanks for the link, Sangermaine! Very interesting. "Innocence" isn't the word I'd use ("clueless dumbshittery" comes more to mind), but it strikes me that this is why it's so easy to manipulate and brainwash the more right-wing authoritarian sections of the electorate - wave the flag at them and have them listen to Fox or read Newsmax and they'll be eating out of your hand and get them to accept your past immoral acts! Or if you're Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi, a little well-placed flattery (or something) will get you everywhere with Donny Easily Led Two Scoops.

And while I think it's a 100% good thing that (most) Democrats are more with the critical thinking and less easily led, it does make a Democratic politician's job harder. Democrats are simply not "malleable to the point of innocence" - introduce a Medicare for All proposal and listen to the beanplating and criticism! - so it's more of a job to work with us. But I like to think it's worth it.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 11:31 AM on September 15, 2017 [7 favorites]

As long as I'm providing some comic relief to this horror show, here's MAD Magazine connecting Donald to the Cleveland Indians (which I think is an awful thing to do to Cleveland, but I was born there and my father moved us out when I was 5½)

I think we've reached a point here where it can now be argued that we might be worse off with a President who's a competent and consistent Republican (as Republicans are now defining themselves)...
posted by oneswellfoop at 11:32 AM on September 15, 2017 [2 favorites]

The AVClub says "It's Friday Afternoon -- here are some videos of sad Trump boys burning their MAGA hats". Their suggested clip made me bark out a laugh at the end.

(I've been following these threads for what seems like thousands of years but never contributed -- thanks y'all for your links and insights, and thanks mods for overseeing this whole...thing)
posted by Monster_Zero at 11:33 AM on September 15, 2017 [56 favorites]

More of these headlines, please! WaPo: Hill Republicans’ influence ebbs — and they are unsure what to do about it

Despite their control of both chambers and with a GOP partner in the White House, congressional Republicans are laboring, sometimes awkwardly, to project leverage over efforts to rewrite the nation’s tax laws and craft a bill to decide the fate of hundreds of thousands of young undocumented immigrants.

Some are privately fuming over the valuable political cover Trump is giving to centrist Democratic senators who are top targets in the 2018 midterms in states the president won. By negotiating with them and appearing at events together, the president is potentially easing their challenge of winning conservative voters.

They have played down Trump’s talks with Democrats, issued warnings that the effort could prove futile and looked for a silver lining — that the president is taking the politically risky lead shepherding legislation on divisive matters.

But so far, none of these approaches have produced what GOP leaders on Capitol Hill hoped they would have after their party won the White House and Congress in November: control.
-----
[After meeting with "Chuck and Nancy], Trump had sent a clear message: For the moment at least, McConnell and Ryan have been stripped of much of the deference presidents historically invest in their party’s leaders on Capitol Hill.

If you're going to violate norms, why not go for the whole pie. Republican leadership? hah!

Also, I turned on the radio yesterday morning to hear this amazing exchange. House Republicans either have no clue what to cut for taxes, or know that everyone will hate it it (hint: medicare!) and don't want to say until the bill is on the floor. NPR: Rep. Brady Encouraged Tax Overhaul Will Pass This Year You really need to hear the clip to get the steel in Mary Louise Kelly's voice!

[Rep. Kevin Brady of Texas]: Yes. And we want to focus - to balance this within the budget over time. And so part of it comes from stronger economic growth. But, also, that alone won't complete it. So you have to jettison a lot of special provisions for some - lobbyist loopholes, exclusions, all that - so we can lower tax rates for everybody. That's part of going to a much simpler tax code.

KELLY: Can you commit to one specific tax break you would be willing to cut to pay for this?

BRADY: Well, there are lots of them. You know...

KELLY: Name one.

BRADY: ...One of them would be - well, look, there's so many. We'll bring the plan out. And at the end the day, this isn't our tax code. It belongs to the American people. And so if they want something as simple and fair as a postcard, we can deliver for them.

KELLY: But let me ask you again. Is there one single thing that you would be willing to cut?

BRADY: Well, there's dozens. There's dozens. So - and that will be part of the tax reform plan.

KELLY: Let me move on ....

Of course, then there was this exchange this morning with BBC and the CEO of the Plowshares fund, where he basically say that 45 has been pressing his military advisors for a way to swiftly bomb NK into compliance "similar to syria?!?", and I'm in the car going "noooooooooooooo!". Lets hope the military advisors can keep stonewalling. :/
posted by Hermeowne Grangepurr at 11:41 AM on September 15, 2017 [47 favorites]

a way to swiftly bomb NK into compliance "similar to syria?!?"

If NK were at all "similar to Syria," that (and more) would already happened, and NK knows this. I'm really, really afraid that at some point Trump is going to decide that the number of dead civilians in both Koreas isn't his problem and will just give the order to strike. Really, how many among his base would give a shit?
posted by Rykey at 11:49 AM on September 15, 2017 [4 favorites]

It really is astounding how badly the Republicans have fucked this up. They control everything yet the can't seem to accomplish anything. Yes, I am aware that the Trump administration is gutting many vital regulatory regimes and that this is non-trivial. But a Republican Congress and President should have been able to enact everything Republicans have ever dreamed of by now, yet they can't seem to get their act together to pass even their most cherished priorities. It's really astonishing, and I guess it's the silver lining on this otherwise pitch-black cloud.

If anyone but Trump were President, they Republicans would have replaced the Statue of Liberty with a giant statue of Reagan raising his middle finger to the world by now.
posted by Sangermaine at 11:50 AM on September 15, 2017 [57 favorites]

Trump calls single-payer 'a curse'

Didn't he at one time praise the Canadian healthcare system?
posted by Beholder at 11:51 AM on September 15, 2017 [4 favorites]

Really, how many among his base would give a shit?

Depends. Do they have loved ones in the military, cause a new Korean war is tantamount to throwing a whole shitload of Red-State kids into a meat-grinder. It won't be drips and drabs like Iraq--it'll be long-ass casualty lists read on the news and published in the local paper. More like Vietnam circa 1968 than Operation Desert Storm or any of the other "little wars" we've dabbled in these last number of years.
posted by Chrischris at 11:53 AM on September 15, 2017 [8 favorites]

I'm really, really afraid that at some point Trump is going to decide that the number of dead civilians in both Koreas isn't his problem and will just give the order to strike. Really, how many among his base would give a shit?

This is why it's not going to happen: the US population would no longer be able to purchase any new cellphones for the foreseeable future.
posted by rhizome at 11:55 AM on September 15, 2017 [7 favorites]

Didn't he at one time praise the Canadian healthcare system?

Welcome to It's Trump's Mind Anyway where the facts are made up and past statements don't matter.
posted by nathan_teske at 11:57 AM on September 15, 2017 [14 favorites]

Didn't he at one time praise the Canadian healthcare system?

Australia's, too.
posted by Faint of Butt at 11:57 AM on September 15, 2017 [5 favorites]

> by the third iphone release after a shooting war...

Sometimes black humor is all we have left.
posted by RedOrGreen at 12:00 PM on September 15, 2017 [8 favorites]

This is why it's not going to happen: the US population would no longer be able to purchase any new cellphones for the foreseeable future.

Less glibly, there are tens of thousands of American troops, and their families, within shelling range of North Korea (and, you know, millions of South Koreans). Anybody threatening war right now, which includes McMaster, is writing a check they'd better damn well know they can't cash.

Of course, if you start to see a massive mobilization of US dependents out of Korea, that would be extremely bad.
posted by zachlipton at 12:01 PM on September 15, 2017 [6 favorites]

Third iPhone release after the shooting war? Who is going to make them, and who is going to make them for an American company? I'm not a RAND fellow or anything, so, grain of salt, but by "foreseeable future" I'm thinking decades, or at least until we have a new President. This isn't even touching on computers, TVs, and electronics in general.
posted by rhizome at 12:02 PM on September 15, 2017

Sorry, I meant they wouldn't give a shit that millions of North and South Koreans were dead.

But... as with any military action the US has been involved in since Vietnam—plus the benefit of two generations of an all-volunteer military—action in Korea will be will be framed not as a meat-grinder, but of heroes showing those bastards who the mightiest nation on the planet is. Then after it proves to be a meat-grinder (for our soldiers, of course), everybody wails about how fucked up it was to get involved there, and we start all over again when the next opportunity for military action presents itself.
posted by Rykey at 12:02 PM on September 15, 2017 [7 favorites]

Richard W. Painter
Richard W. Painter @RWPUSA
Economy class Americans: If you don't like the Treasury Dept. frequent flier program wait to see the peanuts that come with your tax cut

I'm looking forward to hearing him on the CREW case.

Be safe, St. Louis.
posted by Room 641-A at 12:04 PM on September 15, 2017 [9 favorites]

It’s Schrodinger’s President

but it's Pandora's box.

Careful, he might grab it.
posted by klanawa at 12:04 PM on September 15, 2017 [9 favorites]

Remember Frank? The 11-year-old who wanted to mow the White House lawn? They invited him over, and the White House tweeted out a promotional video, but the press shot a much better clip. It seems that Frank was literally only interested in mowing the lawn, as in, when the President came out to say hi, he just kept mowing.
posted by zachlipton at 12:07 PM on September 15, 2017 [89 favorites]

I love the fact that the actually lived "NHS" experience for US visitors is completely different to the fake news 'DEATH PANELS" cant your voting public were exposed to....

I really do.....

working as I do in end of life care & maternity safety transformation in NHS in the SE of UK.... (those are completely cromulent workspaces...You LITERALLY have one chance to get it right...) I'm really worried that we have absorbed enough of your 'healthcare as a commodity' claptrap just because the cost of healthcare are exceeding our funding model for it.

recent amazing patience by HCPs in terms of a 1% payrise cap since forever has given us
SCRAP THE CAP

we are also seeing a new re-organisation into STPs which looking a little bit behind the scenes as I am currently privileged to do look a lot like slash & burn to suit the current budget with no regard for an longer living, ageing, co-morbid, more obese, more demented population that simply defies the current funding model...

but never assume that the discussions in the USA about healthcare reform are not fueling the slash & burn approach by our most right wing politicians and opinion formers...

I read Hilary Clinton's new book because she has literally slaved at the coalface of healthcare reform for so long I knew it would be worth my while. It was more than that.

seeing what you lost is so incredibly confounding for those of us outside the USA, but seeing the practical real world genie you unleashed on us here in the NHS is simply unforgivable...

but hey.....we're just over here in countries decimated by immigration

(FAKE) WE desperately need more immigrants to prop up our health system and everyone in my organisation is frankly terrified by Brexit and the prevailing fake news/Russian attack on our basic systems of democracy & the impact on the NHS

But Really...rby eading "What happened" I realised that while he was gunning for you guys he was quite happy to throw what he learned by destablising you at any and all comers..... the NHS will be Putin's collateral damage cos HRC epitomised everything he cannot control.

what a small man.

NHS

.
posted by Wilder at 12:08 PM on September 15, 2017 [22 favorites]

STL Update: Police are out in riot gear downtown and are arresting people.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 12:10 PM on September 15, 2017 [1 favorite]

And sorry to threadsit, but on Preview:

This is why it's not going to happen: the US population would no longer be able to purchase any new cellphones for the foreseeable future.

Easy peasy: "Nobody cares more about awesome cell phones than me. And the loser, fake media wants you to believe you won't get any good cell phones at a good price if we attack North Korea. Korean cell phones are so unfair to American workers, and that stops right now. We're gonna build so many cell-phones—the best cell phones, I can tell you that—at a cost to consumers far, far below anything you've ever paid—for a much better phone, with instructions ONLY IN ENGLISH. People will come to me and say, 'Mister President, these American-made cell phones are so great, and we're paying so little for them, can we please pay a little more? Or can they just be a little less awesome for what we're paying for them?'"

They're not his base because he doesn't tell them what they want to hear, after all.
posted by Rykey at 12:11 PM on September 15, 2017 [3 favorites]

Didn't he at one time praise the Canadian healthcare system?

And at other times condemned it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 12:13 PM on September 15, 2017 [5 favorites]

Are you suggesting that the US would find itself under global embargo, or that South Korea and China are so critical to electronics that all production would stop?

Something like that, yes. I'm not saying all production would stop, because the rest of the world wants Samsung if their factories still exist afterwards.

In general it sounds like you're saying we wouldn't get our hair mussed, but there are more interests involved than Trump's daddy-hate and KJU's self-regard, not all of whom toe the US line as a matter of course.
posted by rhizome at 12:13 PM on September 15, 2017 [1 favorite]

Patriotic American Conservatives (tm) will indeed mourn their lost loved ones. Who, of, course, were giving their lives in a war to prevent America from being nuked that was caused by Barack Hussein Obama's cowardly lack of resolve and naive policies, and by fifth column liberals and media at home busy sabotaging our Commander In Chief as he attempts to Save Their Unworthy Communist Asses.

I mean, come on. This is neither their or our first rodeo here.
posted by delfin at 12:14 PM on September 15, 2017 [22 favorites]

35 thoughts on Trump 'winging it' with Democrats by former rep. John Leboutillier (R-NY), The Hill opinion contributor
posted by still_wears_a_hat at 12:15 PM on September 15, 2017 [1 favorite]

I mowed yards for a living for a few years, and the first thing you learn is that the job is more about making small talk with the elderly than it is about manual labor. It seems Frank has progressed to the second lesson: there's always that one pushy old guy that wants to follow you around while you work and tell you about how the world should work. If only we as a nation could collectively point to our ear protection and mouth "What?? Can't Hear You??" over and over again.
posted by mcdoublewide at 12:15 PM on September 15, 2017 [72 favorites]

More like Vietnam circa 1968 than Operation Desert Storm or any of the other "little wars" we've dabbled in these last number of years.

And that's assuming they don't pull a MacArthur and get too close to the Yalu River this time. For any kind of military intervention to be successful, they're basically going to have to clear it with China first, and then say, "OK, we'll get to Pyongyang and take out the Kims, then we'll back off to the DMZ, and you guys can come in to run the show."
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 12:17 PM on September 15, 2017 [1 favorite]

For anyone who wants to hear that BBC interview, it starts about 7:15 here.

One of the reasons why the interviewee said that military officials were pushing against a "decapitation" strike was because we would have to evacuate 250k + Americans out of range of conventional weapons on the peninsula.
posted by Hermeowne Grangepurr at 12:20 PM on September 15, 2017 [1 favorite]

35 thoughts on Trump 'winging it' with Democrats
The Hill does listicles now?
posted by oneswellfoop at 12:20 PM on September 15, 2017 [1 favorite]

Chemerinsky brief argues Trump's pardon of Arpaio is void, Debra Cassens Weiss, ABA Journal (contains link to pdf of brief)

A proposed amicus brief filed Monday argues that President Donald Trump’s pardon of Sheriff Joe Arpaio is void because it violates the Constitution. The brief (PDF) was submitted to a federal judge in Phoenix who is considering whether the pardon, issued before Arpaio had a chance to appeal his contempt conviction, requires her to vacate the conviction...

Taking a position against the pardon are the authors of the amicus brief: University of California at Berkeley law dean Erwin Chemerinsky, retired law professor Michael Tigar and lawyer Jane Tigar. The trio argue the pardon is void for three reasons.

First, the brief argues the pardon is not authorized by Article II’s grant of pardon power for “offenses against the United States.” Arpaio’s contempt conviction is not an “offense” within the meaning of that provision, the brief argues. Second, the amicus brief argues that the pardon violates the principle that Article III courts have a duty to provide effective redress when a public official violates the Constitution. Third, the brief argues that Article III courts have inherent power to enforce their orders “and this power exists outside and beyond legislative empowerment and executive whim.”

[U.S. District Judge Susan Bolton said she] was considering dismissing the case without vacating the conviction, report the Washington Post and BuzzFeed News.

Bolton said no final judgment had been entered because Arpaio hadn’t been sentenced, so vacating the conviction and all orders in the case didn’t appear to be an option. She said the government hadn’t provided authority that supports an order of vacatur under similar circumstances and gave the Justice Department until Thursday to file a supplemental brief.

posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 12:26 PM on September 15, 2017 [48 favorites]

Unfortunately, Trump will never leave us
posted by growabrain at 12:34 PM on September 15, 2017 [5 favorites]

So some more on this, the verdict was sat on for weeks before it was announced. A couple of weeks ago, barricades started going up around the courthouse. Noone knew what day it was going to come out, but the assumption was that if the barricades were up then he was going to get off. The city started shutting things down over the past few days. County and city police have been moved to 12 hour shifts. The governor has called in the National Guard. Downtown employers have either closed or sent people to work from home. Schools have cancelled classes and afterschool activities. Ground floor businesses have boarded up their windows. A Moonlight Ramble bike ride is off, Shakespeare Festival is off, and there are questions if the U2 concert is still going to happen etc. Even the freaking Aldi by my house closed and I'm like 5 miles away from there.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 12:35 PM on September 15, 2017 [62 favorites]

Wowzer. He'll flip his lid if the courts deny him his ONE RING TO RULE THEM ALL.
posted by notyou at 12:36 PM on September 15, 2017 [3 favorites]

Thinking about St. Louis and all the different pieces of political and policy activism that could interlock together to move us toward justice (in addition to the accountability measures that folks have already talked about)

- voting rights protections (Missouri enacted a voter ID requirement in 2016) so that voting public reflects diverse community instead of predominantly white homeowner demographic

- bail reform (and community bond funds in the meantime) to reduce the community impacts of racially biased arrests

- de-militarization of police departments (see urban shield, see sales of military weapons to "first responders")

- de-escalation of responses to 911 calls via community based alternatives to policing (like how does having a dude with a gun show up deescalate a family in crisis?)

- prevent privatization of prisons/jails (see Black Lives Matter policy platform)

posted by spamandkimchi at 12:38 PM on September 15, 2017 [19 favorites]

So some more on this, the verdict was sat on for weeks before it was announced. A couple of weeks ago, barricades started going up around the courthouse. Noone knew what day it was going to come out, but the assumption was that if the barricades were up then he was going to get off. The city started shutting things down over the past few days. County and city police have been moved to 12 hour shifts. The governor has called in the National Guard. Downtown employers have either closed or sent people to work from home. Schools have cancelled classes and afterschool activities. Ground floor businesses have boarded up their windows. A Moonlight Ramble bike ride is off, Shakespeare Festival is off, and there are questions if the U2 concert is still going to happen etc. Even the freaking Aldi by my house closed and I'm like 5 miles away from there.

ya know, maybe if you're certain that your verdict will cause intense civil unrest, rethink your fucking racist-ass verdict
posted by lydhre at 12:41 PM on September 15, 2017 [103 favorites]

A verdict that will cause intense civil unrest is today's exact definition of a commitment to "law and order".
posted by oneswellfoop at 12:48 PM on September 15, 2017 [18 favorites]

Campaign Zero: Use the tools below to track legislation impacting your community and hold your representatives accountable for taking meaningful action to end police violence.

They have well-researched policy solutions linking to existing research and reforms

- End Policing of Minor "Broken Windows" Offenses. End Profiling and "Stop-and-Frisk"
- Establish Alternative Approaches to Mental Health Crises
- Establish effective civilian oversight structures
- Remove barriers to reporting police misconduct
- End police department quotas for tickets and arrests
- End the Federal Government's 1033 Program Providing Military Weaponry to Local Police Departments
- Establish standards and reporting of police use of deadly force
- Require police departments to bear the cost of misconduct
- End traffic-related police killings and dangerous high-speed police chases
- Monitor how police use force and proactively hold officers accountable for excessive force

Campaign Zero reviewed police department use of force policies in 91 of the largest U.S. cities. Eight use of force policies were found to be associated with fewer police-involved killings and killings of police officers. Learn more at UseofForceProject.org.

posted by spamandkimchi at 12:50 PM on September 15, 2017 [29 favorites]

Aw jeez I just remembered Ferguson is a suburb of St. Louis

So a judge there went through the Ferguson riots and was like, 'here's a good way to rule.' AND is about ready to retire?

Is there something that I'm not getting about this case? Like beyond people just being evil violent racist shits? Is there something else that would explain this judicial decision?
posted by angrycat at 12:50 PM on September 15, 2017 [15 favorites]

Trump calls single-payer 'a curse'

Didn't he at one time praise the Canadian healthcare system?

He doesn't actually believe either one. He says things because he thinks they're useful. That they conflict with each other is unimportant to him.
posted by scalefree at 12:51 PM on September 15, 2017 [5 favorites]

Is there something that I'm not getting about this case? Like beyond people just being evil violent racist shits? Is there something else that would explain this judicial decision?

No, you pretty much nailed it.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 12:53 PM on September 15, 2017 [11 favorites]

I mean, the judge blatantly says it in his decision
posted by fluttering hellfire at 12:56 PM on September 15, 2017 [14 favorites]

From growabrain's link:
Before Trump, we lived in a make-believe world of our own creation. The first black man in history had been elected president. The first woman was about to succeed him. Nothing, certainly not an infantile blowhard who thrived on debt and deception, could derail the inevitable rise of a lasting liberal majority. The arc of the moral universe, we were assured, bent toward justice.

" There was a fantastic universal sense that whatever we were doing was right, that we were winning. . . .

And that, I think, was the handle—that sense of inevitable victory over the forces of Old and Evil. Not in any mean or military sense; we didn’t need that. Our energy would simply prevail. There was no point in fighting—on our side or theirs. We had all the momentum; we were riding the crest of a high and beautiful wave. . . .

So now, less than five years later, you can go up on a steep hill in Las Vegas and look West, and with the right kind of eyes you can almost see the high-water mark—that place where the wave finally broke and rolled back.” - HST, Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas

45 years later, not much has changed.
posted by delfin at 12:58 PM on September 15, 2017 [57 favorites]

this doesn't mean Chinese companies like Xiaomi, oppo, Huawei will necessarily take their place if a Chinese embargo occurs, [but] there are plenty of other Asian companies that could take up the slack.

Yeah, I'm not so sure about that, especially if China decides to fence off Taiwan.

I'm more skeptical of the belief that electronics are what's going to hold any armed conflict at bay.

It's not electronics per se, it's the associated economy. Tim Cook and Lowell McAdam aren't just going to throw their hands up in frustration.
posted by rhizome at 12:59 PM on September 15, 2017 [1 favorite]

Oh, and there's speculation that the verdict was delayed because they didn't want to disrupt a Cardinals home stand, or Labor Day or the Cards home stand after Labor Day.

(They're at Wrigley right now, up 2-1 in 5th)
posted by fluttering hellfire at 1:00 PM on September 15, 2017 [1 favorite]

And we're back!

Hi, I'm MetaFilter's petebest, here with the zachlex/lalipton dimensional anomaly to bring you the best in hivemind fooferah and cromulent linkpieces. But we can't do it alone! We need your crumpled singles and couch change!

If you're like most of the sentient AI that constitute megathread contributors, you're no doubt aware that MetaFilter is a real thing that uses up money. I know, right?!

If you've enjoyed exclusive past derails such as Primary Relitigation: Oh Hell No, and SmallTextBrackets: ModSquad Revisited, you can help make a valued contribution! Think of it as an ice cream cone you buy your sanity on a breezy afternoon at the park. And for just thirty-nine units of monetary measure, you might receive your choice of the collectible Qball Smockfish's Disco Swing Party Hoedown (Director's Cut) DVD, or not!

So click now! And thank you! And now back to our multicast of the 2017 classic film Oh My God Srsly WTF.
posted by petebest at 1:04 PM on September 15, 2017 [91 favorites]

Here's some optimism: Someday this nightmare will end. Donald Trump can't be president forever. That gives me a glimmer of hope.

The Onion, 2013
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:05 PM on September 15, 2017 [12 favorites]

Oh, and The Onion, 2012
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:06 PM on September 15, 2017 [9 favorites]

Samsung has long had a virtual global monopoly on LED screens. Other companies taking up the slack would take years due to lack of infrastructure. Even if you're holding a non-Samsung phone you are probably looking at a Samsung screen.
posted by wobumingbai at 1:08 PM on September 15, 2017 [4 favorites]

It just seems like when a cop snarls about going to kill a guy, goes out with a fucking AK-47, kills the guy, and then plants a gun it should be the end of the story. Walks like a homicidal maniac, talks like a homicidal maniac, acts like a homicidal maniac.

I mean I'm probably just having a white person naive moment here but FUCK ME THIS IS FUCKED UP
posted by angrycat at 1:16 PM on September 15, 2017 [83 favorites]

The Onion, 2013

Gotta say, that "Why, by 2020, I, a man who recently tried to extort the sitting president of the United States to release his college and passport records, might even begin to show signs of serious and unavoidable decline in mental and physical faculties, and doesn’t that just perk your spirits right up?" does not in fact perk me up the way it might have in 2013 :P
posted by thefoxgod at 1:21 PM on September 15, 2017 [9 favorites]

Well, we have progressed somewhat from the old days. This time there was a trial!
posted by delfin at 1:21 PM on September 15, 2017 [6 favorites]

It occurs to me that Donald J. Trump is all but a physical embodiment of the seven deadly sins of Christian tradition.

Lust. Too many examples to list, including towards his own daughter.

Gluttony. Donnie got two scoops of ice cream while everyone else just got one at a recent dinner, and he's well known to stuff himself with junk food. I'm fat, Trump is much fatter than me.

Greed. I don't think its necessary to even try to list examples of this.

Sloth. So far Trump has taken more vacation in his first six months of office than literally any President before him, including Bush Jr who was the previous record holder. Trump also has stated that he believes physical exercise is harmful and will kill you prematurely.

Wrath. Trump has often bragged about his wrath, he proudly boasts of seeking vengeance for any tiny slight or imagined wrong. He's well known as a mean person who throws tantrums when thwarted in his smallest desire.

Envy. In a radio interview on 9/11 Trump said that since the Twin Towers had been destroyed his building was the tallest in Manhattan (a lie), he did that on 9/11. Earlier when he was seeing a model of Trump Tower with other buildings he insisted his underlings lower the other buildings so that Trump Tower looked taller. For a man with so much he seemed to always be grasping after what is beyond his reach.

Pride. As with lust and greed, I think the examples of Trump serving as a physical avatar of pride are too numerous to list.

Pick any of the big seven and Trump is not merely guilty of it, but you'll find examples of him bragging about his sin. He is not merely guilty of all seven but comes close to being a platonic example. There is literally not one in the seven deadly sins where Trump cannot be said to exemplify it.

And the overwhelming majority of American Christians voted for him.
posted by sotonohito at 1:22 PM on September 15, 2017 [113 favorites]

Here's everything shut down in town so far.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 1:27 PM on September 15, 2017 [5 favorites]

Donald Trump = Being There + Forrest Gump + Mean Girls 2
posted by OverlappingElvis at 1:28 PM on September 15, 2017 [5 favorites]

*State legislature update*

Oklahoma just called a special legislative session to close the state's budget shortfall. Gov. Fallin wants them to:

--Address the immediate budget shortfall created by the loss of the $215 million cigarette fee revenue. [it was held to be unconstitutional]
--Have the option to address a long-term solution to continuing budget shortfalls.
--Address the need for more consolidation and other efficiencies in all areas of state government.
--Clarify intended exemptions to the new 1.25 percent sales tax on vehicles.
--Address a needed pay increase for K-12 public school teachers.

So, any number of bills on anything might come up during the session. The OK legislature is overwhelmingly Republican, but even the (horrible) Republican Gov. is calling for tax increases. Memail me if you live in OK and want info/talking points on specific proposals.
posted by melissasaurus at 1:29 PM on September 15, 2017 [16 favorites]

Shit like this St Louis verdict really takes the wind out of my sails. Like, fuck it, we might as well pack it up, we're done here.

Because how are we possibly going to fix this? We all know "a few bad apples" is utter bullshit, and that even otherwise good cops (for American cop values of "good") support and protect the bad ones. So we basically have to burn American city, county, and state police departments to the ground and start over with a model that actually discourages, and enforces consequences for, gunning down civilians in the street.

But then there's the legal system that has -- every time, without fail -- enabled and defended and supported the police in these cases. So we have to burn American city, county, and state judicial systems to the ground and start over with a model that actually discourages, and enforces consequences for, ignoring the rule of law when the perp is a cop.

Rooting out something this ugly and pervasive and deeply dug in is almost impossible, and to do it we'd need extensive support at the national level, like, from the Attorney General or even the President himself, and... you see where I'm going with this, I'm sure.
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 1:31 PM on September 15, 2017 [19 favorites]

Trump also has stated that he believes physical exercise is harmful and will kill you prematurely.

[real, btw, because it turns out that "a person, like a battery, is born with a finite amount of energy". Who knew?]
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 1:33 PM on September 15, 2017 [1 favorite]

What female hosts have to deal with on CNN.

"I believe in the 1st amendment and boobs"
posted by Talez at 1:33 PM on September 15, 2017 [14 favorites]

"I believe in the 1st amendment and boobs"

In case you don't know who Clay Travis is...

Clay Travis, Tucker Carlson’s go-to sports expert, is a racist conspiracy theorist, and his "credo" is "all women are sluts"

In his “satirical” book, Clay Travis instructs men to go to hospitals to hit on rape victims, “dash” a woman’s head “on the fireplace,” refer to a wife or girlfriend as a “cockmitten,” and murder a woman’s cat in front of her and feed "the carcass to your dog"
posted by chris24 at 1:39 PM on September 15, 2017 [23 favorites]

St. Louis does not have a police chief right now. Sam Dotson "retired" upon Lyda Krewson taking office as Mayor. We have interim chief Lawrence O'Toole while Mayor Lyda drags her feet on a national search. I wish we could pull Dan Isom out of retirement.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 1:40 PM on September 15, 2017 [2 favorites]

What female hosts have to deal with on CNN.

I know this is phenomenally not the point here, but we already knew Clay Travis is a gigantic asshole and nobody should be booking him, so I'll just say that whoever at CNN cut from the three boxes to the shot of just Baldwin in the studio right as she said the word "bye" deserves a giant raise for impeccable timing.
posted by zachlipton at 1:41 PM on September 15, 2017 [11 favorites]

Donald Trump = Being There + Forrest Gump + Mean Girls 2

Please leave Chauncey Gardner out of this. The similarities are superficial at best.
posted by mikelieman at 1:43 PM on September 15, 2017 [4 favorites]

Everything I listed was real, including Trump, on 9/11, getting interviewed on the radio and claiming (falsely BTW) that since the Twin Towers had been destroyed he now owned the tallest building in Manhattan. Link 1. Link 2. That was literally something he thought of and bragged about on 9/11, before the smoke had cleared, while emergency crews were still working to find survivors, Trump was on the radio talking about how his building was now the tallest in Manhattan.

Likewise, Trump has repeatedly and very creepily, lusted after Ivanka. Link 1. Link 2.

He's utterly vile in every way.
posted by sotonohito at 1:43 PM on September 15, 2017 [22 favorites]

SmallTextBrackets: ModSquad Revisited

Oh crap, is using them a problem now?

I love small text, just love it!
posted by leotrotsky at 1:47 PM on September 15, 2017 [3 favorites]

Please leave Chauncey Gardner out of this. The similarities are superficial at best.

They both like to watch.
posted by OverlappingElvis at 1:48 PM on September 15, 2017 [9 favorites]

Olivia Nuzzi provides an extremely Friday afternoon story that is of absolutely zero consequence or relevance to anyone's lives: Here’s Why Steve Bannon Wears So Many Shirts

“Never two. N-e-v-e-r t-w-o,” his spokesperson said of the exact number of shirts worn by Bannon himself at any given time. “Never one. Certainly n-e-v-e-r o-n-e. And most of the time never two. It’s usually three, he usually has three shirts on.”

No particular explanation is really provided, though the reporter does try it out for herself. The best part is the use of quotation marks after explaining that Bannon wouldn't talk on the record: "“Sources” and “friends” with “knowledge” of Bannon’s wardrobe also talked." Wink wink.
posted by zachlipton at 1:54 PM on September 15, 2017 [6 favorites]

They both like to watch.

Like I said, superficial. President Gardner was an effective leader despite his issues.
posted by mikelieman at 1:56 PM on September 15, 2017 [2 favorites]

A verdict that will cause intense civil unrest is today's exact definition of a commitment to "law and order".

No. Many good and worthy decisions have caused civil unrest. Desegregation of schools caused civil unrest. The problem with this verdict is that it's wrong.
posted by corb at 1:57 PM on September 15, 2017 [27 favorites]

Sleeping Giants:

[We noticed that many ads on Breitbart were coming] from the same place: @facebook's Audience Network. Advertisers informed us that they were never told they would a automatically opted in. 5/ They simply thought that they would show up on Facebook and that would be that. But then they didn't. 6/ And suddenly, they were showing up on Breitbart articles like "There's No Hiring Bias Against Women In Tech, They Just Suck In Interviews"7/This wasn't just risking their brand reputation, their ad dollars were, unbeknownst to them FUNDING Breitbart's content. 8/ And the only way to opt out was to turn off the entire Audience Network, which many didn't know how to do. 9/ Facebook is literally funding Breitbart by using their unsuspecting customers' ad dollars. Pretty damning and yet, not surprising. 10/ Facebook has some explaining to do. Customers need transparency and need to understand why Breitbart is even on their Audience Network 11/ as the site clearly doesn't meet their own Community Standards for hate. They also need to understand why Facebook has 12/ spent their ad dollars so carelessly without thinking the damage it would do to their brand.

Is there anything else we can do about this besides telling advertisers, "Do you realize your ads are showing up on Breitbart? Do you want to support this hate site?"
posted by cybercoitus interruptus at 1:58 PM on September 15, 2017 [42 favorites]

Rep. Lacy Clay (D MO-1) is downtown at the protest.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 2:04 PM on September 15, 2017 [16 favorites]

The AVClub says "It's Friday Afternoon -- here are some videos of sad Trump boys burning their MAGA hats". Their suggested clip made me bark out a laugh at the end.

MAGA tears are the most schadenfreudelicious of all.
posted by Lyme Drop at 2:07 PM on September 15, 2017

Trump Advisers Secretly Met With Jordan’s King While One Was Pushing A Huge Nuclear Power Deal: Michael Flynn, Jared Kushner, and Steve Bannon met with King Abdullah II

It's upthread a ways, but I want to point out that this is now the second time Steve Bannon's name has now appeared as an attendee at one of these shady meetings.

The previous time was earlier this week in this CNN article about a meeting in New York with a crown prince of the UAE:

The crown prince, Sheikh Mohammed bin Zayed al-Nahyan, arrived in New York last December in the transition period before Trump was sworn into office for a meeting with several top Trump officials, including Michael Flynn, the president's son-in-law, Jared Kushner, and his top strategist Steve Bannon, sources said.

Bannon is looking less and less like an innocent bystander.
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:08 PM on September 15, 2017 [7 favorites]

The OK legislature is overwhelmingly Republican, but even the (horrible) Republican Gov. is calling for tax increases.

The OK GOP has had no fewer than 4 sexual assault scandals just this year. Here's the latest one.

Whats in the water there ?
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 2:09 PM on September 15, 2017 [4 favorites]

Shit like this St Louis verdict really takes the wind out of my sails. Like, fuck it, we might as well pack it up, we're done here.

Well yes, but: it's only new to those of use haven't been seeing it for years. And yeah, sadly, there wouldn't even have been a trial in some years, you can almost, if you squint, call that a shitty kind of progress.

But this stuff, and worse, has always been going on. Those of us (I don't know if you're white, won't assume) who are white or otherwise sheltered, find it shocking when we see it, but those who aren't sheltered have known all along.

And plenty of folks of color who've seen far more than I ever have, get up, get out and keep fighting, every day. How can I let hopelessness overtake me just because I'm now seeing what they've always seen? I can't, right? I can't let my own sadness tempt me to check out, which is a privilege I have as a white person. Much as I often want to.

I struggle with this a lot. I hate conflict and violence and looking right in the face of hatred and marching and phone calls and all the rest. I'm slow and surly and whiny about all of it. I want to go home, and sometimes I do, but those assholes are still out there with their tiki torches, so I have to keep trying.
posted by emjaybee at 2:12 PM on September 15, 2017 [63 favorites]

What's in the water there?

Uh, oil?
posted by hanov3r at 2:13 PM on September 15, 2017 [3 favorites]

A Judge Has Blocked New Trump Administration Rules Aimed At Sanctuary Cities

A federal judge in Chicago issued a nationwide order on Friday that temporarily blocks the US Department of Justice from requiring cities to comply with new federal grant requirements aimed at so-called sanctuary cities.

US District Judge Harry Leinenweber found that Chicago was likely to succeed in arguing that Attorney General Jeff Sessions exceeded his authority in imposing rules that require cities applying for a law enforcement grant program to notify federal agents about suspected undocumented immigrants before releasing them and to give agents access to detention facilities.

Full text of decision here [pdf].
posted by melissasaurus at 2:14 PM on September 15, 2017 [34 favorites]

Sangermaine: It really is astounding how badly the Republicans have fucked this up. They control everything yet the can't seem to accomplish anything.

Amid tension, Trump and McConnell together on judges (Joan Biskupic, CNN Legal Analyst and Supreme Court Biographer, September 5, 2017) -- warning: auto-playing video.

President Donald Trump and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell may not be on the best of terms after a failure to pass a healthcare overhaul this summer and ahead of expected fiscal fights this fall. But they have at least one shared mission: confirming a bevy of federal judges.

Their effort, along with today's relaxed filibuster rules, could give conservatives an opportunity to reshape the federal bench even more than in the 1980s when President Ronald Reagan set a modern standard for maximizing a potential judicial legacy.

Why so many? Because the Republicans intentionally held up judicial nominations with the hope that they'd take back the White House.

See also: List of federal judges appointed by Donald Trump on Wikipedia. This is the one thing that Dems can't undo when they take back power.

The one light in this dark list: there are a lot of names, but many still need to be confirmed.
posted by filthy light thief at 2:26 PM on September 15, 2017 [21 favorites]

Kurds: YOU KNOW WHAT'S DISTRACTING LET ME TELL YOU WHAT'S DISTRACTING ASSHOLE [fake]
posted by Rykey at 2:27 PM on September 15, 2017 [2 favorites]

Anyone have a copy of the judge's decision in the Anthony Lamar Smith murder?
posted by Coventry at 2:27 PM on September 15, 2017

WSJ: GOP Congressman Sought Trump Deal on WikiLeaks, Russia. Yes, of course it's Rohrabacher.

A U.S. congressman contacted the White House this week trying to broker a deal that would end WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange’s U.S. legal troubles in exchange for what he described as evidence that Russia wasn’t the source of hacked emails published by the antisecrecy website during the 2016 presidential campaign.

The proposal made by Rep. Dana Rohrabacher (R., Calif.), in a phone call Wednesday with White House Chief of Staff John Kelly, was apparently aimed at resolving the probe of WikiLeaks prompted by Mr. Assange’s publication of secret U.S. government documents in 2010 through a pardon or other act of clemency from President Donald Trump.

The possible “deal”—a term used by Mr. Rohrabacher during the Wednesday phone call—would involve a pardon of Mr. Assange or “something like that,” Mr. Rohrabacher said. In exchange, Mr. Assange would probably present a computer drive or other data-storage device that Mr. Rohrabacher said would exonerate Russia in the long-running controversy about who was the source of hacked and stolen material aimed at embarrassing the Democratic Party during the 2016 election.

“He would get nothing, obviously, if what he gave us was not proof,” Mr. Rohrabacher said.

posted by zachlipton at 2:27 PM on September 15, 2017 [23 favorites]

It's pretty astounding that we have an obvious Russian asset in the US House of Representatives operating in the open, and the rest of the House just shrugs.
posted by diogenes at 2:31 PM on September 15, 2017 [98 favorites]

Anyone have a copy of the judge's decision in the Anthony Lamar Smith murder?
posted by Coventry at 16:27 on September 15 [+] [!]

Here you go.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 2:33 PM on September 15, 2017 [3 favorites]

In what universe does making a deal with Assange to clear Russia of wrongdoing not scream collusion in flashing neon?
posted by BungaDunga at 2:34 PM on September 15, 2017 [36 favorites]

I realize this is all phenomenally stupid and none of it makes any sense, but even if we took Rohrabacher and Assange's proposal at face value, how would it even work? Assange isn't going to reveal his sources to the US Government, I guess? What evidence could he possibly present then, even if you ignore the question of proving it wasn't faked?

And if Assange is so committed to radical transparency, surely he wouldn't just be sitting on explosive evidence of crucial interest to world affairs, right? Right? That would be totally against all of his...yeah no that checks out.
posted by zachlipton at 2:35 PM on September 15, 2017 [7 favorites]

So the whole anonymous, protected part of leaking to Wikileaks goes away to help Russia and Trump?
posted by chris24 at 2:36 PM on September 15, 2017 [3 favorites]

Anyone have a copy of the judge's decision in the Anthony Lamar Smith murder?

also via NPR's full-screen document viewer in case you don't want to download it
posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 2:36 PM on September 15, 2017 [2 favorites]

@yashar
WATCH: @EagleEdMartin, who says he's @PhyllisSchlafly's handpicked successor, says POTUS can't be racist because he kisses black babies.

VIDEO

---

Nobody tell him about Thomas Jefferson.
posted by chris24 at 2:39 PM on September 15, 2017 [15 favorites]

This is the one thing that Dems can't undo when they take back power.

Maybe. The answer to all things is "it depends", right? If a dunderheaded Russian mafia/state tool barfviates his way into office with 98% illegal cash and hacked voting machines it should get called back, right?

At the very least we have to acknowledge that the Constitution allows for it. As with impeachment, it is not a criminal law-based function but a political one. Judges can be replaced. It's severe, it's drastic, but what of the Trump æon isn't?

Would DNC Dems actually do it? Oh no. But that's on us. Run smart. Democrats 2018: You Will! Be Held! Accountable!

y'know they set the car on fire already. It's not like we're playing any-dimensional chess
posted by petebest at 2:40 PM on September 15, 2017 [5 favorites]

Please leave Chauncey Gardner out of this. The similarities are superficial at best.

White man who learns everything he knows from watching television and appears to be wealthier than he actually is makes vague pronouncements that people who want to believe in him take as vision or wisdom. This man is not properly vetted and despite showing no signs of understanding or competence is somehow seen as a serious political candidate. Nothing to see here.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 2:41 PM on September 15, 2017 [12 favorites]

We've put out a statement requesting that the Kurds cancel their independence referendum, saying that it is "distracting" from the war on ISIS. I mean, the Kurds are mainly the ones fighting that war in Syria, but let's not let that stand in the way of making our point.

I mean, that reasoning is incredibly stupid and it's not like the Trump administration has any sort of moral or temporal authority to tell the Kurds much of anything, but there is a real fear that the referendum will lead to a civil war in Iraq, and because of the players here, one that could easily draw in Turkey and Iran. I'm in quite supportive of the YPG and Peshmerga in their fight against ISIS and there are plenty of good reasons to support an independent Kurdish state, but this still has a lot of potential to go really poorly really quickly.
posted by Copronymus at 2:43 PM on September 15, 2017 [2 favorites]

In President Gardner's case, however, he never promoted himself, but was rather a blank slate upon which The Establishment projected their hopes and dreams.

DJT is, in contrast, a grifter to the core.
posted by mikelieman at 2:43 PM on September 15, 2017 [5 favorites]

It was upsetting to learn from Olivia Nuzzi's piece on Bannon's shirts that he favors the same pen as I do.
posted by slenderloris at 2:46 PM on September 15, 2017 [4 favorites]

National Treasure Alexandra Petri, WaPo: Some reviews of the first line of the first chapter of Hillary Clinton’s ‘What Happened’

“That which does not kill us makes us stronger.”
— Friedrich Nietzsche (and Kelly Clarkson)
(opening of “Showing Up,” the first chapter of “What Happened,” Hillary Clinton’s new book on the election)

This book is trying too hard.

If you rearrange the words in these sentences it doesn’t spell “Benghazi” but I think that, in and of itself, is EXTREMELY TELLING.

This font is not right.

No one would question the font that a man used to type these words, and I can’t believe that Hillary Clinton is being subjected to it.

This is just what I imagine Leslie Knope’s book would have been like. Already, it is like a cool drink of water in the wilderness, a wilderness where Clinton has been diligently fighting rogue clowns for us for the past several months. I am grateful for her every day.

I’m sorry, but after the second word I blanked out and went straight back to election night, and all I can hear is the sound of sobbing and unused confetti and balloons falling wetly from an unbroken glass ceiling onto a tear-soaked ballroom floor and nothing will ever be all right ever again.

Why isn’t this just an unprintable expletive in ALL CAPS that takes up an entire page? This doesn’t feel strong enough.

posted by Johnny Wallflower at 2:49 PM on September 15, 2017 [44 favorites]

US military is not mostly rural redstaters. it is 35% rural in a nation that is 25%. Disproportionate - yes, but the meat-grinder will mostly be urban meat, suburban meat, with more rural and more minorities and sourhern than average...
but majority of americans are urban, democrat and ignored as "real americans who serve their country" so that some politicians from disproportionately white diaproportionately rural and disproportionately "parasitic" communities can pretend that they built this country all by themselves and they are the only ones who run it.
So on the topic of who will suffer in a next korea war spoiler alert: everybody, here and there, but poor and minorities worse than rich white US hawks)
posted by Anchorite_of_Palgrave at 2:54 PM on September 15, 2017 [19 favorites]

In what universe does making a deal with Assange to clear Russia of wrongdoing not scream collusion in flashing neon?

It's freaking crazy. It's like the getaway driver using the the mob boss to try and clear the stickup man. And all three of them are claiming they had nothing to do with the robbery.
posted by diogenes at 2:55 PM on September 15, 2017 [8 favorites]

‘I hope nobody loses their lives’: Armed neo-Confederates descend on Virginia to defend statue ‘at all costs’
posted by zombieflanders at 3:15 PM on September 15, 2017 [8 favorites]

AP Still no charity money from leftover Trump inaugural funds

President Donald Trump’s inaugural committee raised an unprecedented $107 million for a ceremony that officials promised would be “workmanlike,” and the committee pledged to give leftover funds to charity. Nearly eight months later, the group has helped pay for redecorating at the White House and the vice president’s residence in Washington.

But nothing has yet gone to charity.

One way they spent money was on the pre-inaugural Lincoln Memorial concert, $25 million, which was an outrageously high price tag.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:16 PM on September 15, 2017 [21 favorites]

Redundant clothing is a sign of schizophrenia. Apparently even Shakespeare knew it.

Comments in Nuzzi's article also suggest that... uh... alcoholism might have something to do with it.
posted by klanawa at 3:18 PM on September 15, 2017 [10 favorites]

It's interesting to me that the WSJ article is basically serving as part of the plot here. If Kelly took Rohrabacher's call and pass blocked the message, Rohrabacher still wants to get it directly to Trump. Since Rohrabacher obviously doesn't mind publicly looking like a Russian operative——that ship sailed a long time ago——, what better way to pass the message on than the front page of the Wall Street Journal?

Doing this publicly is madness, but it's apparently worthwhile to him as long as Trump hears about the deal. And if Trump hears about it, how is he going to pass up anything labeled "proof Russia didn't hack the election?" Even if it amounts to nothing, it still serves a useful purpose by spreading more FUD about how there was no Russian involvement.
posted by zachlipton at 3:23 PM on September 15, 2017 [16 favorites]

From that zombieflanders link:

“We pride ourselves in honoring and protecting our Proud Confederate Heritage as well as our Confederate Monuments and Cemeteries to honor our past heros (sic) and not let their memory fade away as is being done by a lot of our government officials today,” the CSAII Commanding General wrote on Facebook. “CSA II® will continue to honor our heros (sic) memory by protecting our monuments to their memory at all cost and assisting our fellow members of the Heritage ~ Not Hate Movement to stop the oppressive tactics done by these above mentioned hate groups and government officials.”

Will someone please tell me why they take so much pride in in their "Confederate Heritage"? I mean really, what in hell do they have to be proud of?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:26 PM on September 15, 2017 [16 favorites]

it's not like the Trump administration has any sort of moral or temporal authority to tell the Kurds much of anything

Last month Samantha Bee went to Iraqi Kurdistan and found herself doing her First (And Probably Last Ever) Trump-Positive Field Piece, evidently due to approbation of U.S. assistance to the Kurds in Northern Syria? (See also—Meet The Badass Peshmerga Women)
posted by XMLicious at 3:41 PM on September 15, 2017 [2 favorites]

‘I hope nobody loses their lives’: Armed neo-Confederates descend on Virginia to defend statue ‘at all costs’

Aside from the threats and all the other obvious and horrible stuff... that photo literally made my eyes bleed.
posted by Hairy Lobster at 3:44 PM on September 15, 2017 [5 favorites]

I'm nobody to fashion judge, but I do wonder of the woman wearing spandex confederate flag clothes. She couldn't find a matching confederate top and a matching confederate bottom? I mean come on.
posted by angrycat at 3:59 PM on September 15, 2017 [3 favorites]

Looks like Confederates aren't quite as uptight as Americans about desecrating their flag.
posted by kirkaracha at 4:00 PM on September 15, 2017 [4 favorites]

Will someone please tell me why they take so much pride in in their "Confederate Heritage"? I mean really, what in hell do they have to be proud of?

Lost Cause of the Confederacy does a pretty good job of explaining it.
posted by Brak at 4:01 PM on September 15, 2017 [5 favorites]

I'm nobody to fashion judge, but I do wonder of the woman wearing spandex confederate flag clothes. She couldn't find a matching confederate top and a matching confederate bottom? I mean come on.

90% of the people who I see on the side of white supremacy would have been killed as an untermensch.

I wish these people would realize that.
posted by Talez at 4:03 PM on September 15, 2017 [12 favorites]

I got your "Proud Confederate Heritage" right here caution: disturbing images.
posted by kirkaracha (staff) at 4:05 PM on September 15, 2017 [2 favorites]

WSJ: Facebook Gave Special Counsel Robert Mueller More Details on Russian Ad Buys Than Congress

Facebook Inc. has handed over to special counsel Robert Mueller detailed records about the Russian ad purchases on its platform that go beyond what it shared with Congress last week, according to people familiar with the matter.
The information Facebook shared with Mr. Mueller included copies of the ads and details about the accounts that bought them and the targeting criteria they used, the people familiar with the matter said. Facebook policy dictates that it would only turn over “the stored contents of any account,” including messages and location information, in response to a search warrant, some of them said.
A search warrant from Mr. Mueller would mean the special counsel now has a powerful tool in his arsenal to probe the details of how social media was used as part of a campaign of Russian meddling in the U.S. presidential election. Facebook hasn’t shared the same information with Congress in part because of concerns about disrupting the Mueller probe, and possibly running afoul of U.S. privacy laws, people familiar with the matter said.
A Facebook spokesman said the company continues to investigate and is cooperating with U.S. authorities. A spokesman for Mr. Mueller declined to comment on the investigation.

posted by rewil at 4:19 PM on September 15, 2017 [31 favorites]

I was hoping for another Futurama quote as the post title.

You're less popular than Sargent Feces Processor!
posted by adept256 at 4:20 PM on September 15, 2017 [3 favorites]

I can't wait for Ben Shapiro's guest appearance on the next season of Handmaid's Tale. (fake).
posted by rc3spencer at 4:29 PM on September 15, 2017 [1 favorite]

that photo literally made my eyes bleed.

Wow. Ah. Huh. More so than any of Il Toupée's misadventures, I am at a loss.
*fricative sigh*
posted by petebest at 4:39 PM on September 15, 2017 [1 favorite]

The Hill: Senators Propose 9/11-style Commission on Russian Interference

Sens. Kirsten Gillibrand (D-N.Y.) and Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) announced legislation on Friday to establish the National Commission on Cybersecurity of U.S. Election Systems to study the election-related cyberattacks — which the intelligence community has attributed to Russia — and make recommendations on how to guard against such activity going forward.{...}

Both Gillibrand and Graham said the commission is urgently needed to prevent foreign threats in the 2018 midterm elections.

“We need a public accounting of how [the Russians] were able to do it so effectively, and how we can protect our country when Russia or any other nation tries to attack us again,” Gillibrand said. “The clock is ticking before our next election, and these questions are urgent.”

Graham said the issue goes “beyond partisan politics” and “strikes at the heart” of American democracy.

No response from the Trump Administration yet, as far as I can tell, but the announcement coincides, accidentally or not, with tomorrow's March to Protect American Democracy outside the White House.
posted by Doktor Zed at 4:40 PM on September 15, 2017 [17 favorites]

Celebrity President is the worst reality show ever.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 4:43 PM on September 15, 2017 [17 favorites]

Mueller's spokesperson must have a really boring job. "No comment."
posted by lumnar at 4:46 PM on September 15, 2017 [7 favorites]

CNN:Trump withholds almost all Mar-a-Lago visitor's logs

Also, not sure if it was ever mentioned in the last thread, but Spicer joins Lewandowski as a Harvard Fellow.
posted by orange ball at 5:03 PM on September 15, 2017 [7 favorites]

I was hoping for another Futurama quote as the post title.

I was going to go with "I'm sick of you people! You're nothing but a pack of fickle mushheads!" from the snake-smashing day episode of the simpsons.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 5:05 PM on September 15, 2017 [4 favorites]

I mean really, what in hell do they have to be proud of?

Does this really need explanation? I'll be blunt: Not bein' nigras, nor nigra-lovers.

90% of the people who I see on the side of white supremacy would have been killed as an untermensch. I wish these people would realize that.

People (not to knock on you specifically) keep saying things like this, but American white supremacy owes little to Nazi Aryan folk-ideology (and in fact Nazi Germany's racial policies owe something to Jim Crow). Just keep in mind that the Nazis' greatest allies were swarthy Italians, half-Mongol Russians, and the Japanese. Each era, and people, creates the racial supremacy that it thinks it needs.

And the current one is recognizable thanks to endless discussion over the last couple. (Frankly, that article, and the book on which it draws, assert that knowledge of their untermenschen-ness is partly at the root of the American definition of whiteness.) After all, when asked, it's not like Americans actually are willing to say they back Nazism or even neo-Confederate white supremacy, the real problem is what they don't acknowledge as the same thing, like the St. Louis verdict.

I do see that there is likely an underpinning to your point, e.g. that a specific racial classification regime could easily ensnare those who advocate one generically, but that's really more of a leopards-eating-faces blindness and not really a useful observation. Of course they believe that they will be the ones controlling whose faces the leopards eat, that's the whole point.

There's also the longstanding folk wisdom that if fascism comes to America it will "come wrapped in the American flag", but of course we already know that when the KKK reached its zenith as a movement in the 1920s they did not march as lost-causers but as patriots. And one might also, and as effectively, point out that racism isn't Christian: at least here there is a value in using the remaining power of the pulpit to push back where it may make a difference, but it hasn't stopped supremacists from incorporating Christian symbolism into their movements.
posted by dhartung at 6:12 PM on September 15, 2017 [22 favorites]

I was hoping for another Futurama quote as the post title

It's possible I'm missing the joke here, but the post title is a Futurama quote.
posted by tau_ceti at 6:13 PM on September 15, 2017 [1 favorite]

I believe it was I was hoping for another Futurama quote, i.e. a different specific example, which followed.
posted by dhartung at 6:19 PM on September 15, 2017 [2 favorites]

Sabrina Taverise, in NYT Sunday Review: When History’s Losers Write the Story

In the United States, the Civil War remains “the most divisive and unresolved experience Americans have ever had,” according to David Blight, a historian at Yale. “The Civil War is like a sleeping dragon. If you poke it hard enough, it will raise its head and breathe fire.”

That is, in part, because the loser was allowed its own interpretation. The South, facing catastrophic loss of life and mass destruction on a European scale, wrote its own history of the war. It cast itself as an underdog overwhelmed by the North’s superior numbers, but whose cause — a noble fight for states’ rights — was just. The North looked the other way. Northern elites were more interested in re-establishing economic ties than in keeping their commitments to blacks’ constitutional rights. The political will to complete Reconstruction died.

Of course, the problem with this interpretation is the assumption that the Confederacy was the loser. It wasn't, and it hasn't lost, and Donald Trump is its president.
posted by runcifex at 6:23 PM on September 15, 2017 [20 favorites]

It's like some Confederacy of Dimwits or something.
posted by petebest at 6:32 PM on September 15, 2017 [11 favorites]

Comments in Nuzzi's article also suggest that... uh... alcoholism might have something to do with it.

So when he burp-barfs his morning liter of whiskey down his front, he has a spare shirt on underneath?
posted by Squeak Attack at 6:44 PM on September 15, 2017 [2 favorites]

There's also the longstanding folk wisdom that if fascism comes to America it will "come wrapped in the American flag"

Who knew they'd be taking the flag wrapping quite so literally...
posted by Hairy Lobster at 6:47 PM on September 15, 2017 [2 favorites]

It's pretty astounding that we have an obvious Russian asset in the US House of Representatives operating in the open, and the rest of the House just shrugs.

We got one in the White House, too
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:54 PM on September 15, 2017 [6 favorites]

In a rousing example of bipartisanship, Tim Kaine and Lamar Alexander open the Bristol Rhythm & Roots Reunion as "The Amateurs".
posted by kimdog at 6:56 PM on September 15, 2017 [1 favorite]

Just keep in mind that the Nazis' greatest allies were swarthy Italians, half-Mongol Russians, and the Japanese. Each era, and people, creates the racial supremacy that it thinks it needs.

While it is true that these alliances existed, it does not imply that they thought of their allies as equal to them in racial terms. Those were temporary alliances at best.
posted by Hairy Lobster at 6:57 PM on September 15, 2017 [5 favorites]

History channel orders six-episode miniseries of Clinton impeachment Taegan Goddard, PoliticalWire

“The series will be based on the book The Breach: Inside the Impeachment and Trial of William Jefferson Clinton by Peter Baker. The series begins with the revelation that President Clinton was having an affair with White House intern Monica Lewinsky and continues through the political combat that saw Hillary Clinton, Newt Gingrich, Prosecutor Ken Starr, Congressman Bob Livingston and many others dominating the national headlines.”

*dials 2017 writers' room*
posted by petebest at 7:18 PM on September 15, 2017 [7 favorites]

STL update: protesting in the Central West End now. Nothing widespread. Police posting mostly self-congratulatory stuff on Twitter about their (own) "restraint". I live in the city, but not really near any of these things, so nothing happening here except laundry, snoozing dogs, and backyard beers.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 7:22 PM on September 15, 2017 [4 favorites]

Did Jared Kushner's Data Operation Help Select Facebook Targets For the Russians?

I've been saying all along this is where the collusion happened. The Russians had help. Someone fed them voter targeting information to the precinct level. It was Jared Kushner and unknown others on the data team. Every top member of the Trump campaign was aware of it. Every member of Republican leadership was also aware or willfully blind.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:36 PM on September 15, 2017 [64 favorites]

BTW the Central West End is a posh neighborhood bordered by Forest Park on the west and the Delmar Divide on the north and the BJC complex on the south and far midtown on the east. Was one of the OG gayborhoods in the late 70s to mid 80s and a Gen-X hangout in the 90s (rip The Grind, Daily Planet) but has largely been sanitized and replaced by a lot of money. It's kind of approaching the Disneyland version of city living.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 7:40 PM on September 15, 2017 [2 favorites]

You have now subscribed to St Louis facts. You will now receive intermittent STL facts from a resident derailing a politics thread.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 7:47 PM on September 15, 2017 [59 favorites]

Ta-Nehisi Coates lays it out straight to Chris Hayes [video]:

If you own a business that attempts to keep black people from renting from you, if you are reported to say that you don't want black people counting your money, if you say, not even reported, just come out and say someone can't judge your case because you're Mexican, if your response to the first black President is that they weren't born in this country despite all proof, if you say they weren't smart enough to go to Harvard Law School and demand to see their grades, if that's the essence of your entire political identity, you might be a white supremacist. it's just possible. I mean I'm willing to have that debate and hear the other side, but you might be.

I think with Donald Trump...I wouldn't say George Bush is a white supremacist. Now I have a lot of problems with gb's polices. I can make an argument for how they effect black people in a negative way, you know what I mean. But I wouldn't argue that he's a white supremacist. I wouldn't argue that Mitt Romney is a white supremacist. Donald Trump is a particular specific thing, and I think there's quite a bit of evidence to back up the charge

posted by zachlipton at 7:57 PM on September 15, 2017 [160 favorites]

I was Borg-assimilated to the United States as a 5-year-old in St. Louis, and the racism/sexism/classism ran so deep that it took me until my very late 20s to shake it off enough to leave. It is sadly no surprise what is happening there today, as it is what has been happening there every day since...well, God only knows. America's hatred of the other...which is just a projection of the hatred of the Self...finds itself almost perfectly expressed in St. Louis, MO. Thank God I got out, I pray for those still there, and Let's Go Blues (the propaganda runs deep)!
posted by riverlife at 7:58 PM on September 15, 2017 [5 favorites]

I spent three years in St. Louis and it's by far the most racist place I've been to in the US. The racist overtone to every conversation was obvious and aberrant to me from the beginning, and I grew up in Kentucky. It's worse there, by a lot.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:01 PM on September 15, 2017 [9 favorites]

I spent three years in St. Louis and it's by far the most racist place I've been to in the US.

Classist and provincial, too. Good god do I have a repository of words on this.

That said, I actually do love living here. In conclusion, I am a woman of contrasts.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 8:20 PM on September 15, 2017 [23 favorites]

Random experience of the day: coming home from a work trip, I shared a shuttle ride with an older white guy, who I recognized as the rather rude man who pushed his way through the plane while everyone was trying to deplane. Beyond that, I didn't think about him, until he turned to me and shared his experience from the flight: he, a Republican who generally doesn't share his political views with strangers, was asked by the lady sitting next to him about his political affiliation. When he said he was a Republican, she apparently unloaded on him, about how great "that crooked Hillary" is, and how Obama was the best president ever. "So I called her an ignorant cunt" -- that's not an exact quote, but he did say he called her "cunt."

I was floored. Absolutely floored. Up to then, I was nodding along, because we would be off the shuttle in a few minutes, and I'd never see him again. But him telling me casually, if not a bit proudly, that he called a stranger "cunt" broke me from complacency. "I cannot abide that," I told him, which actually gave him pause. He tried to defend himself, even saying "she started it," to which I said "I know it can be hard, but you can't fall to that level," which wasn't what I was thinking. I would have preferred to shout "YOU IDIOT, SHE'S MORE RIGHT THAN YOU!" but I didn't. Instead I told him I was more likely to side with her viewpoints than his, again trying to remain calm. Then he said "she said that those men in Benghazi deserved to die, and that was too much for me." But I kept pushing back, telling him I cannot abide by that language, and that by responding with anger to anger doesn't solve anything.

So he apologized to me, and said he was sorry for the way he had acted. This gave me pause, but I told him I wish he had apologized to her. We parted ways fairly cordially, and I don't think I changed his mind one iota, but I was kind of on a rush. There was another guy in the shuttle, a 30-something white dude, who said nothing the whole time. When the Republican got off the shuttle, the other guy asked me if I knew him, and I said I didn't. We shook our heads at the exchange, which might have offended the shuttle driver, who was also an older, white male, but I tipped him and was cordial and thankful to him.

All of this is to say thank you to all you MeFites who do way more than this to stand up to sexist, racist, angry relatives, co-workers and strangers, who attend rallies and are willing to go to jail to stand up for what you believe. I can say that you all inspired me today, but more than that, today punched another hole in my shell of white, male privilege. This guy thought he could commiserate with a fellow white man about some uppity lady, and all I got was an awkward exchange. Other people deal with direct attacks, or push back against much larger forces.

Thank you all.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:38 PM on September 15, 2017 [147 favorites]

ESPN Public Editor (@ESPNPublicEd): The reason so many think Trump is a white supremacist is because of many things that have been reported by the media. Let the facts speak.

...

...

...

Yeah, I got nothin'.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:59 PM on September 15, 2017 [10 favorites]

Here we all were thinking Liz Spayd was bad, and there was an even worse public editor we'd never even heard of right there under our noses.
posted by zachlipton at 9:02 PM on September 15, 2017 [4 favorites]

Oh god, he's hold my beer-ing his own statements.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 9:03 PM on September 15, 2017 [6 favorites]

I've been saying all along this is where the collusion happened. The Russians had help.

Yes, absolutely. Several months ago I posted here on the blue that I felt very strongly about collusion because of an intellectual exercise I played--could I figure out who to target and how to target them if I wanted to influence Russia's elections just by reading internet sources? The answer is no, no I couldn't. I could get some very good ideas about how to hurt Putin, but in order to accurately time information releases, figure out who to target, determine what would tug on Russian heartstrings... I would need Russians to help me with that.
posted by xyzzy at 9:06 PM on September 15, 2017 [3 favorites]

> Oh god, he's hold my beer-ing his own statements.

Yeah, and he has a sad about the ordeal over on his personal Twitter. Damned people expecting a public editor of a major media outlet to understand what the media does, or at the very least, to refrain from tweeting about politics when said media outlet just tried to kick someone off the air for tweeting about politics.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:09 PM on September 15, 2017 [2 favorites]

I too have thought the Russians must have had American help. The election interference was a marketing campaign, and anyone who has successfully done business in a foreign country should know that it is impossible to effectively run a marketing campaign without local help. Heck anyone who has tried to learn the idioms of a second language should knows this.
posted by wobumingbai at 9:13 PM on September 15, 2017 [8 favorites]

ESPN is in the impossible position of most of their employees and on-air talent being members of the liberal reality based community, while most of their audience is Trumpian NFL fans that hate Colin Kapernick and the only other channel they watch is FOX News, while their corporate parent is Disney that won't even allow acknowledgment that politics exists.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:37 PM on September 15, 2017 [32 favorites]

The endgame is when Jemele and Keith are put in as co-anchors of Sports Center, and the Rethuglicans understand they're going up against the Mouse, and Mickey has Yoda and Captain America backing him up... Nevermind Mary Poppins!
posted by Slap*Happy at 9:52 PM on September 15, 2017 [2 favorites]

I guess the controversy is that people who hate restrictions on speech (Happy Holidays!) are offended by pointing out that a confessed adulterer and pussy-grabber and liar is also a bigot ?

When you pile the irony deep enough, it becomes bullshit.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 10:02 PM on September 15, 2017 [9 favorites]

U.S. Army kills contracts for hundreds of immigrant recruits. Some face deportatio
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:08 PM on September 15, 2017 [12 favorites]

ELECTIONS NEWS

** 2018 Senate -- Dems still working beat the odds and get 51 seats. [Politco]

** 2018 House -- TPM: House GOP Worries About ‘Mass Exodus’ Of Frustrated Members

** AL senate special -- New VSC poll has Moore lead down to 41-40. Most other polls have been more like 10 points, though. Also, Senate Leadership PAC dumping yet more ad $$$ in for Strange.

** Odds & ends:

-- Some early YouGov polling for the 2018 CA gov race has Lt Gov Newsom at 26, GOP biz guy Cox at 11, and former LA mayor Villaraigosa at 10. CA has a top 2 second round, meaning that if both finalists are Dems, it will likely result in less GOP voter interest and benefit Dems in other races as well.

-- If NJ Sen Menendez ends up out of the Senate after his corruption trial, NJ voters strongly support (68%) the incoming governor naming his successor, rather than Christie. [WP]

-- Interesting map of state level Trump approval ratings.

posted by Chrysostom at 10:48 PM on September 15, 2017 [33 favorites]

They're burning their maga hats now.

I think that what annoys me the most is that this kid is wearing a RHCP shirt. It's like when Paul Ryan said he's a big fan of Rage Against The Machine. Yes, the music is cool and funky, but you just ignored the words. Songs have meaning and you should burn your RHCP shirt too because you don't believe in that either.
posted by adept256 at 12:01 AM on September 16, 2017 [6 favorites]

also that dumbass is going to burn down his parent's house
posted by adept256 at 12:03 AM on September 16, 2017 [5 favorites]

It's like when Paul Ryan said he's a big fan of Rage Against The Machine.

I don't even understand the timeline we're in anymore.
posted by Brak at 12:16 AM on September 16, 2017 [11 favorites]

After terror attack in London, Donald Trump provides much leaded leadership to Theresa May (Must be proactive!)

But the buried story that the mainstream media doesn't want you to know, Trump finally reveals his secret plan to defeat ISIS; Use the internet better.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 12:18 AM on September 16, 2017 [1 favorite]

adept256: I think that what annoys me the most is that this kid is wearing a RHCP shirt.

At first read I mentally transposed the letters and thought he was wearing a Rocky Horror Picture Show shirt, which yes, would have been confusing.
posted by Superplin at 12:19 AM on September 16, 2017 [8 favorites]

It's Red Hot Chilli Peppers. But I understand that Under The Bridge is about a homeless person overdosing on drugs under a bridge, but he's not homeless, the city is his home. It's his only friend. Songs have meaning. That's a powerful message and how damn tone deaf are you not to understand?
posted by adept256 at 12:25 AM on September 16, 2017 [2 favorites]

So, strap on your tin foil hats, and stay with me for a minute...

There is a company called the NSO Group. ( https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&q=nso+group&oq=nso+group ) They call themselves cyberarms dealers. Others call them black hats who sell exploits to governments. It is rumored that this group's software is responsible for a number of activist deaths.

Francisco Partners is a VC company. They own controlling interest of NSO. In 2014, they bought NSO Group for 130 million dollars. They are currently shopping it around for 1 billion dollars. https://www.google.com/search?q=nso+group+value

What else is Francisco doing? Slurping up American medical data companies like they're the last creme puffs at a tea party. What do all those companies have in common? Billions and billions of lines of PHI; which includes things like names, social security numbers, diagnosis, tests, conditions, etc. If you have seen a doctor in the last two years, your data has gone through a Francisco server.

And ya know who was working with nso and Francisco? Mike Flynn. At the same time as he was cozying up to Putin and Turkey.

What do those lines of red thread mean? I don't know, but something feels wonky about Flynn being anywhere near that much personal data about every American with access to healthcare.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 12:25 AM on September 16, 2017 [50 favorites]

I am kind of developing a grudging sort of respect for Mike Flynn.

Sure he's a crackpot with terrible ideas about geopolitics and ethics that are so debased he got bounced from the Trump administration but I can't find time in my life to participate in even a single shadowy conspiracy -- how the hell can he be centrally linked in so many of them? That's some serious work ethic..
posted by Nerd of the North at 12:43 AM on September 16, 2017 [32 favorites]

Speaking of crackpots, Carter Page Sues Over Yahoo Story On Russia Contacts, Citing Death Threats. The eyebrow raising part is that the complaint is over 400 pages long, includes pictures of Hillary Clinton with media executives as proof of something, and he is representing himself:

Asked Friday for comment on the suit and why he chose to represent himself, Page sent TPM a lengthy statement quoting George Washington and citing the Constitution. He said he has “done a tremendous amount of legal work” during his career, including as legal officer on his Navy ship and as general counsel for his energy consulting firm.

I think Carter Page is genuinely unwell.
posted by peeedro at 12:55 AM on September 16, 2017 [39 favorites]

Mr. Assange would probably present a computer drive or other data-storage device that Mr. Rohrabacher said would exonerate Russia in the long-running controversy about who was the source of hacked and stolen material aimed at embarrassing the Democratic Party during the 2016 election.

at this point it doesn't matter. trump et al is dog shit shoved into our mouths. when your mouth is full of dog shit, who the fuck cares if it was produced by fido or scoobydoo. you just want the dog shit out of your mouth.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 1:34 AM on September 16, 2017 [2 favorites]

Obama doesn't have logorrhea like Trump

My wife, whose discipline is medical, explains it's a 'flow of words'. Like diarrhea? I asked.

Yes, like that. She said without humour.
posted by adept256 at 1:50 AM on September 16, 2017 [15 favorites]

I certainly wouldn't want to burn a MAGA hat.

Who knows what sort of chemicals are in those things? Probably best to avoid skin contact, too.
posted by ckape at 2:17 AM on September 16, 2017 [3 favorites]

I think Carter Page is genuinely unwell.

Sure, but him defending himself in court is going to be wildly entertaining evey by Trumpian standards. And certainly funnier than the rest of it.
posted by msalt at 3:14 AM on September 16, 2017 [5 favorites]

It's like when Paul Ryan said he's a big fan of Rage Against The Machine.

I don't even understand the timeline we're in anymore.

On the one hand, sure, anyone who's listened to a single word of a RATM song (beyond "Fuck you I won't do what you tell me") is extremely confused by that.

On the other hand, the one Rage show I went to was the single most violent show I've ever seen, and I grew up in punk clubs and have been to a LOT of shows of all kinds. The Rage pit was full of frat boy mooks literally hunting POC down and beating the shit out of them right in front of me. So...yeah. A lot of angry idiot white boys never listened to the words or paid the first attention to ANYTHING about the band.
posted by threeturtles at 3:29 AM on September 16, 2017 [5 favorites]

I liked their first album, but was too turned off by their fanbase by the time their second album came out. I was in my late teens when Rage seemed to peak in my mid-size midwest town with the release of the aforementioned second album. The people who liked them seemed to be the same people who enjoyed imitating Cartman in order to get away with saying racist shit about Jewish people ironically. A couple of them matured, but a fair number are Trump voters today. One is even a Trump voting Tea Party activist rodeo rider now.
posted by bootlegpop at 3:42 AM on September 16, 2017 [2 favorites]

Strong, strong words from new rules Tonight
posted by growabrain at 4:22 AM on September 16, 2017 [4 favorites]

One is even a Trump voting Tea Party activist rodeo rider now.

Who whoa WHOA.

What now?
posted by wenestvedt at 5:13 AM on September 16, 2017 [2 favorites]

Update on that weird story about the mysterious sonic deafening incidents in Cuba. If Maddow wasn't invested in the story it would sound like an Art Bell show. Here is video from last night's show, including a Maddow interview with AP reporter Jowh Lederman. No transcript, but this is the AP story on which her report is based. transcript. Main points:

- Raul Castro summed the top US diplomat to meet in Cuba to discuss the incidents. This is a Big Deal.
- Castro is "baffled" by incidents
- US officials "taken aback" by Castro's attitude
- Castro invited the FBI to come to Havana and imvestigate
- US did send agents; it's unclear what their status is now
- Cuban government allegedly sent a diplomatic note to the State Dept offering help and resources. They did not hear back from the State Dept.
- 21 medically-confirmed cases of symptoms including hearing loss and traumatic brain injury
- This new reporting:

WASHINGTON (AP) — The blaring, grinding noise jolted the American diplomat from his bed in a Havana hotel. He moved just a few feet, and there was silence. He climbed back into bed. Inexplicably, the agonizing sound hit him again. It was as if he’d walked through some invisible wall cutting straight through his room.

Soon came the hearing loss, and the speech problems, symptoms both similar and altogether different from others among at least 21 U.S. victims in an astonishing international mystery still unfolding in Cuba. The top U.S. diplomat has called them “health attacks.” New details learned by The Associated Press indicate at least some of the incidents were confined to specific rooms or even parts of rooms with laser-like specificity, baffling U.S. officials who say the facts and the physics don’t add up.

(AP reporting by Josh Lederman, Michael Weissenstein, and Matthew Lee)
posted by Room 641-A at 6:23 AM on September 16, 2017 [56 favorites]

You know what is even more mysterious? Cuba has universal health care. How did it happen? Nobody seems to know. It's a mystery.
posted by adept256 at 6:27 AM on September 16, 2017 [7 favorites]

Castro is "baffled" by incidents... US officials "taken aback" by Castro's attitude... Castro invited the FBI to come to Havana and investigate

Hey, doesn't have to be the Cubans. Maybe polonium is getting a little expensive lately.
posted by Behemoth at 6:32 AM on September 16, 2017 [5 favorites]

History channel orders six-episode miniseries of Clinton impeachment Taegan Goddard, PoliticalWire

And then there's the docudrama Chappaquiddick to be released into cinemas in December. Since there doesn't seem to be any upcoming TV or film devoted to Watergate, it almost looks like Hollywood is concentrating on Democrats' scandals while there's currently a real-life Republican one in the White House that makes the past ones look like peanuts.
posted by Doktor Zed at 6:34 AM on September 16, 2017 [18 favorites]

"Since there doesn't seem to be any upcoming TV or film devoted to Watergate"

Mark Felt: The Man Who Brought Down the White House
posted by Omon Ra at 6:55 AM on September 16, 2017 [5 favorites]

Thanks for that, Omon - if I can't Google up a Liam Neeson-starring Mark Felt movie that's coming out in two weeks, I need more coffee. Interestingly, though, that film's cast doesn't appear to have Nixon among its roles, though it does have a lot of other implicated White House staff.
posted by Doktor Zed at 7:08 AM on September 16, 2017

Hey, doesn't have to be the Cubans. Maybe polonium is getting a little expensive lately.

I believe the thinking has been that the Cuban Government is not involved. To me, asking the US for help confirms this. If Cuba is worried about this, that's bad.

This makes me miss the good old Art Bell days, when conspiracies were more about invisible flying rods and that guy with the bottomless pit in his backyard and less about Seekrit Pedo Pizza. But not that one guy who claimed to be the Messiah. He was scary.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:12 AM on September 16, 2017 [7 favorites]

Former federal prosecutor.

@renato_mariotti
THREAD: Why news that Mueller obtained a search warrant for Facebook content may be the biggest news in the case since the Manafort raid.
1/ Last night, the @WSJ reported that Mueller obtained info from Facebook via search warrant: Facebook Gave Special Counsel Robert Mueller More Details on Russian Ad Buys Than Congress
2/ The @WSJ talks about some of the info Mueller obtained (see below). Mueller could not obtain *content* of an account without a warrant. [screenshot]
3/ I was initially wary about discussing implications of this story because I worried @WSJ may have presumed a warrant that didn't exist.
4/ But @CNN has confirmed that Mueller obtained content via search warrant, including ads, acct details, targeting. Facebook handed Russia-linked ads over to Mueller under search warrant
5/ That is huge news. It means that Mueller has concluded that specific foreign individuals committed a crime by making a "contribution"
6/ in connection with an election. It also means that he has evidence of that crime that convinced a federal magistrate judge of two things.
7/ First, that there was good reason to believe that the foreign individual committed the crime. Second, that evidence of the crime existed
8/ on Facebook. Why is that big news? Until now, Mueller's efforts to obtain information about Russian interference in the election could
9/ be seen as an effort to gain counterintelligence or to investigate a matter unlikely to result in charges. Now we know he believes that
10/ he's close to charging specific foreign people with a crime. Can he do that? Yes, if they committed a crime in the U.S.
11/ For example, my former boss indicted Osama Bin Laden for the first World Trade Center bombing.
12/ So what does this mean for Trump and his associates? This news also has large implications for them.
13/ It is a crime to know that a crime is taking place and to help it succeed. That's aiding and abetting. If any Trump associate knew about
14/ the foreign contributions that Mueller's search warrant focused on and helped that effort in a tangible way, they could be charged.
15/ In addition, anyone who agreed to be part of this effort in any way could be charged with criminal conspiracy. They wouldn't need to
16/ be involved in the whole operation or know everyone involved but they would have to agree to be part of some piece of it.
17/ One thing I should note is that this particular violation of the law preventing foreign contributions in connection with an election
18/ is far stronger than earlier speculation that Donald Trump Jr. violated the same law by accepting information from the Russian attorney.
19/ One hurdle is that to violate the statute criminally, you have to do so knowingly and willfully. Here, Mueller has evidence that the
20/ foreigner(s) had that intent, and it is far more difficult for an American to claim that he/she didn't know that a massive Russian
21/ influence operation was against the law than it would be to claim that about hearing talk at a meeting. Jurors would be inclined to
22/ convict anyone who was part of or aided a Russian effort to subvert our election.
23/ If I represented someone who was caught up in this part of the investigation, I'd be very worried. /end
ADDENDUM: In case you're curious, here's the statute I discuss in this thread: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/52/30121
posted by chris24 at 7:18 AM on September 16, 2017 [81 favorites]

Justice Department ends program scrutinizing local police forces
The changes were announced by the department’s Office of Community Oriented Policing Services, or COPS, which is halting a years-long effort begun in the previous administration to investigate and publicize the shortcomings of police departments.

This is the sort of thing which can be militated against, if the Dems say loudly and clearly that this programme will be reinstated, double-strength, the moment they get back in. Labour did this against various Tory privatisation plans when in opposition in the 90s, I seem to remember, saying that any contracts made would be cancelled, and it had the desired chilling effect.
posted by Devonian at 7:24 AM on September 16, 2017 [30 favorites]

This is the sort of thing which can be militated against, if the Dems say loudly and clearly that this programme will be reinstated, double-strength, the moment they get back in.

"...and yes, it will be retroactive, we will be investigating any indications of criminal activity, within the limits of the statute of limitations."
posted by Nice Guy Mike at 7:44 AM on September 16, 2017 [17 favorites]

The blaring, grinding noise jolted the American diplomat from his bed in a Havana hotel. He moved just a few feet, and there was silence. He climbed back into bed. Inexplicably, the agonizing sound hit him again. It was as if he’d walked through some invisible wall cutting straight through his room.

Soon came the hearing loss, and the speech problems, symptoms both similar and altogether different from others among at least 21 U.S. victims in an astonishing international mystery still unfolding in Cuba. The top U.S. diplomat has called them “health attacks.” New details learned by The Associated Press indicate at least some of the incidents were confined to specific rooms or even parts of rooms with laser-like specificity, baffling U.S. officials who say the facts and the physics don’t add up.

Lousy renegade psions.
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 8:24 AM on September 16, 2017

I believe the thinking has been that the Cuban Government is not involved. To me, asking the US for help confirms this. If Cuba is worried about this, that's bad.

Would not surprise me at all to be Russia stirring the shit. Russia is in International Relations for the lulz.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:25 AM on September 16, 2017 [4 favorites]

One is even a Trump voting Tea Party activist rodeo rider now.

Who whoa WHOA.

What now?

Not unusual for certain parts of the country. Where I grew up there were a small number of kids who did rodeo in the summers instead of playing on a summer baseball league. ND High School Rodeo (don't rewind to the start if you have a problem with calf roping). Some of these kids go on to compete nationally and, given the political makeup of the regions where rodeo is treated as a legitimate sport, it wouldn't be surprising if a disproportionate number of them are Tea Partiers/Trumpists/sovereign citizens.
posted by nathan_teske at 8:38 AM on September 16, 2017 [1 favorite]

Would not surprise me at all to be Russia stirring the shit.

Putin's secret police and intelligence services have been harassing U.S. diplomats all over Europe for years now. In one notorious incident, Russian intelligence personnel broke into a U.S. defense attache's Moscow house and killed his dog.
posted by Doktor Zed at 8:42 AM on September 16, 2017 [6 favorites]

peeedro: I think Carter Page is genuinely unwell.

More tinfoil hattery: while the Russians are more of a "kill you in a gruesome sort of way, so much so that the police opt to say 'no sign of foul play' rather than possibly get targeted by those Russian killers themselves, what if Russian operatives have turned to poisoning people in such a way to damage their brains and ruin their potential as a viable witness to crimes?
posted by filthy light thief at 9:00 AM on September 16, 2017 [6 favorites]

This week in plagiarism news:

Former Milwaukee County Sheriff David Clarke must revise his master's thesis or risk losing his degree in security studies.
posted by darkstar at 9:18 AM on September 16, 2017 [29 favorites]

I'm from Minnesota, I totally get rodeo.

I just had an image of someone conbining rodeo and Tea Hadism, like a rodeo preacher. Made me hopeful for a minute there. :7)
posted by wenestvedt at 9:25 AM on September 16, 2017

They have rodeo in Minnesota?

Minnesodeo?
posted by Faint of Butt at 9:35 AM on September 16, 2017 [6 favorites]

They have rodeo in Minnesota?

The southern half of the state is more Iowa/Nebraska/Dakota than Canada. The Northern half though... Proabably, the easternmost western state in terms of wilderness and remoteness.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 9:42 AM on September 16, 2017 [3 favorites]

Russian intelligence personnel broke into a U.S. defense attache's Moscow house and killed his dog.

Ok, look. I throw around "Act of War" a lot. If ANYTHING is a fucking Act of War, THIS IS.

Of course, DJT doesn't have a dog, so even that empathy is not there.

Shit's fucked up all over.
posted by mikelieman at 9:46 AM on September 16, 2017 [4 favorites]

> Fuck you I won't do what you tell me

Most of the dudebros I knew in university who loved this song seemed to interpret "what you tell me" as "don't be an asshole." They were not into not being assholes.
posted by The Card Cheat at 9:53 AM on September 16, 2017 [4 favorites]

Down Rodeo live by RATM. Yeah, ok, how does Paul Ryan like this;

Yeah I'm rollin' down Rodeo with a shotgun
These people ain't seen a brown skin man
Since their grandparents bought one.

The Prophets Of Rage are releasing an album. They are a group consisting of former members of Public Enemy, Cypress Hill, and Rage Against The Machine. It is protest music, a fusion of hip hop and rock and dammit Chuck D came to the party to say UNFUCK THE WORLD.
posted by adept256 at 9:59 AM on September 16, 2017 [11 favorites]

Politico: Another prosecutor joins Trump-Russia probe

An attorney working on the Justice Department's highest-profile money laundering case recently transferred off that assignment in order to join the staff of the special prosecutor investigating the Trump campaign's potential ties to Russia, POLITICO has learned.

Attorney Kyle Freeny was among the prosecutors on hand Friday as a spokesman for former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort, Jason Maloni, testified before a grand jury at federal court in Washington.

Freeny, whose assignment to Special Counsel Robert Mueller's staff has not been previously reported, is the 17th lawyer known to be working with the former FBI chief on the investigation into Russian meddling in the 2016 presidential election. She departed from the courthouse Friday with two other members of Mueller's squad: former Criminal Division chief and Enron prosecutor Andrew Weissman and Civil Division appellate attorney Adam Jed, a former clerk to Supreme Court Justice John Paul Stevens.

Before being detailed to Mueller's team, Freeny was shepherding the Justice Department's headline-grabbing effort to seize the profits from the film "The Wolf of Wall Street" on grounds that the film was financed with assets looted from the Malaysian government..

posted by chris24 at 10:02 AM on September 16, 2017 [21 favorites]

I agree 100%. I thought John Wick was the story of a man having a reasonable reaction to people having broken into his house and killing his dog. There are no bad dogs which makes it worse in some ways than if they had assassinated a human.

On top of that, it's entirely possible that dogs are what helped humans develop the empathy necessary to form civilization.

Leave the dogs out of it.
posted by VTX at 10:04 AM on September 16, 2017 [23 favorites]

Oh, yes, protest songs have been so pivotal to America's recent political history #sarcasm (|) 🍔
Like so many other things, Tom Lehrer sang it best, decades ago.
posted by oneswellfoop at 10:12 AM on September 16, 2017 [3 favorites]

Yeah, that certainly explains why I can't think of a single anti-war song that Lehrer is well known for, fifty years later. {royale w/ cheese}
posted by a box and a stick and a string and a bear at 10:17 AM on September 16, 2017 [4 favorites]

To be fair, Chappaquiddick was a very nasty business - especially for Mary Jo Kopechne, her family and women everywhere.

I realise that the current situation is more than desperate, but this doesn't exonerate misogynistic white supremacy past present or future in the cause of ousting its latest manifestation
posted by Myeral at 10:33 AM on September 16, 2017 [2 favorites]

I realise that the current situation is more than desperate, but this doesn't exonerate misogynistic white supremacy past present or future in the cause of ousting its latest manifestation

or just regular old misogyny, in this case. I have grave doubts that anybody mentioning "Chappaquiddick" cares about Mary Jo Kopechne (the infallible tell is that they talk about Chappaquiddick instead of Mary Jo Kopechne) and no interest in supporting nostalgic reminiscinces about crimes of Democrats past, with or without a good reason or an ulterior motive, at the present time.

but those grave doubts go for the people who treat it as just an old-fashioned example of BUT HER EMAILS every bit as much as it does for the conservatives who are glad it happened because TK putting his reputation and political future above any concerns for a woman's life was almost as bad as pushing for health care and nearly half as unpopular. re: bothsidesism, even a stopped clock is right twice a day and every once in a while both sides are equally repugnant on a very particular issue. the tortured intricacy of the repugnance is just about equal, too, which is rare and special.

so, shut up about "Chappaquiddick" right now because we lost the chance to take it seriously and hold a man to account, forever, back before TK died a worshipped statesman and now never can? fair. shut up about it right now because DONALD TRUMP and priorities? also fair. shut up about it right now because it never mattered? fuck that.
posted by queenofbithynia at 11:04 AM on September 16, 2017 [32 favorites]

For MAGA hat douchebros to wear RHCP shirts is entirely appropriate given that the RHCP are well known for their rapey behavior.
posted by snuffleupagus at 11:33 AM on September 16, 2017 [8 favorites]

I drove through downtown DC today on my way home from a picnic thrown by our daycare, and was puzzled by the massive police presence due to the corresponding lack of, well, just about anyone out on the streets. Came home and opened Facebook, and it looks like TENS OF PEOPLE showed up to support the President at the much-vaunted MOTHER OF ALL RALLIES.

Y'ALL. The small unincorporated area of Burtonsville, Maryland, about 10 miles outside of DC, held their annual "Burtonsville Day" celebration today, and by the looks of it, they had several times the turnout as the MOTHER OF ALL RALLIES. (Bonus points: their theme this year was "Celebrating Multicultural Burtonsville.")
posted by duffell at 12:03 PM on September 16, 2017 [48 favorites]

I'm not saying that negates any of the horribleness, obviously, but if you're looking for something to brighten your mood, there it is.
posted by duffell at 12:04 PM on September 16, 2017 [4 favorites]

what if Russian operatives have turned to poisoning people in such a way to damage their brains and ruin their potential as a viable witness to crimes?

Happened to Yushchenko.
posted by ocschwar at 12:53 PM on September 16, 2017 [1 favorite]

Shots of "The Mother of All Rallies". Turn out seems somewhat less than advertised.
posted by octothorpe at 1:03 PM on September 16, 2017 [21 favorites]

Sign of the (New York?) Times: This year's 'new' 'hot' 'sexy' Halloween costume is allegedly the "Sexy Fake News". [real, damit!]
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:22 PM on September 16, 2017 [1 favorite]

Sign of the (New York?) Times: This year's 'new' 'hot' 'sexy' Halloween costume is allegedly the "Sexy Fake News".

Field report: Upon viewing, only things hardening here are my coronary arteries.
posted by maxwelton at 1:27 PM on September 16, 2017 [2 favorites]

what if Russian operatives have turned to poisoning people in such a way to damage their brains and ruin their potential as a viable witness to crimes?

well that would explain trump
posted by entropicamericana at 1:34 PM on September 16, 2017 [2 favorites]

what if Russian operatives have turned to poisoning people in such a way to damage their brains and ruin their potential as a viable witness to crimes?

well that would explain trump

You don't give the guy enough credit. Trump manages to be criminally stupid all by himself.
posted by lydhre at 1:40 PM on September 16, 2017 [1 favorite]

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Scott Pruitt must be setting EPA headquarters on fire.
posted by zachlipton at 1:46 PM on September 16, 2017 [21 favorites]

Anyone else think zach and lalex need to run off to Vegas and get hitched? #meanttobe
posted by orrnyereg at 1:49 PM on September 16, 2017 [45 favorites]

Shots of "The Mother of All Rallies". Turn out seems somewhat less than advertised.

I've seen a political cartoon from the right that responds to this - a team of donkeys, newsmen with cameras, and stereotypical "hippie" folk are all confronting a lone elephant holding a "MAGA" sign, and taunting him about the low turnout. "Where's everyone at your rally?" they're saying? And the elephant simply says "They're at work."

I would love to know how to ask the cartoonist "then why didn't they schedule the rally for the weekend, the way we liberals always do so people actually can show up."
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:49 PM on September 16, 2017 [18 favorites]

omfg lalex what have we done?
posted by zachlipton at 1:52 PM on September 16, 2017 [14 favorites]

At this point, the makers of Trump Flip Flops sandals are going to need to sell them by the dozen... if he survives to the end of his term, you'll need an "Imelda Marcos-sized show closet" to store them all.

We are all ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
It IS Saturday, after all.
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:53 PM on September 16, 2017 [3 favorites]

I'd like to be back in a position where capability in the federal government is something to be lauded, myself, but I guess I'll take what I can get. Hurray for our gov not following through on leaving the climate agreement?

This whole admin is just omnishambles. If only Thick of It was still running (and American). I'd pay hard money to watch someone ruthlessly competent shouting at thinly-veiled knockoffs of this admin.
posted by Trifling at 1:54 PM on September 16, 2017 [2 favorites]

Schrodinger's President, I'm tellin' ya. Just don't anybody look in the box for the next three and a half years, and we might make it through this.
posted by darkstar at 1:56 PM on September 16, 2017 [3 favorites]

what's in the baaaaaahcks
posted by entropicamericana at 1:58 PM on September 16, 2017 [13 favorites]

@GlennThrush: "WH spox denies WSJ story claiming US might stay in Paris accords -- saying position hasn't changed..."

I guess The Generals didn't tell Trump yet...
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 1:59 PM on September 16, 2017 [2 favorites]

Deputy Press Secretary statement:

WH responds: "There has been no change in the United States' position on the Paris agreement..." 1/
"As the President has made abundantly clear, the US is withdrawing unless we can re-enter on terms more favorable to our country."

I'd never trust anyone from the press office to know what's going on, but it's also frankly possible that an EU official started a rumor to make Trump look like an idiot.
posted by zachlipton at 2:02 PM on September 16, 2017 [8 favorites]

"WH spox denies WSJ story..."

Hasn't this consistently been code for 'confirms', in this administration?
posted by Devonian at 2:06 PM on September 16, 2017 [6 favorites]

There is no consistent code.
posted by notyou at 2:09 PM on September 16, 2017

Ok the WSJ story now has a named source from Europe:

“The U.S. has stated that they will not renegotiate the Paris accord, but they will try to review the terms on which they could be engaged under this agreement,” European Commissioner for Climate Action and Energy Miguel Arias Cañete said.

But...

Still, Washington’s move may prove a Pyrrhic victory for Paris Agreement champions. The U.S. is expected to significantly reduce its ambition to curb greenhouse-gas emissions, which would be in line with Mr. Trump’s goal of clinching “fairer terms,” the official said.
...
Washington is reviewing new emission-cut targets to combat climate change, Mr. Eissenstat said, according to the official. Any revisions would lower existing U.S. commitments signed by former President Barack Obama, which would be a blow to the global effort, the person said. Under the Paris accord, every country set its own goals.

While Mr. Eissenstat outlined a plan to reassure partners that the U.S. would be constructive, he did not provide clarity on the new emissions-reduction objectives, the person said.

“They are seriously considering the terms on which the U.S. could re-engage,” the person said. “They have also made clear that they have no intention to renegotiate or develop a parallel track to Paris.”

So is the plan to just change our national climate goals to "we'll install one of those funny curly-cue light bulbs in the White House basement somewhere" and call it a day?

It also raises the obvious question of why we would stay in an effort to combat something the President believes to be a Chinese hoax.
posted by zachlipton at 2:12 PM on September 16, 2017 [4 favorites]

Bad Democrats are Bad and should feel Bad.

"ISPs can keep sharing your browsing history after California no-vote" -- ArsTechnica
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 2:13 PM on September 16, 2017 [9 favorites]

The Juggalo march seems to be going great though:

@ddale8: Violent J says criminalizing opinion is like sewing a man's butthole shut. "Do you want to sew a man's butthole shut?" Juggalos: "Noooo!"
Shaggy 2 Dope delivers a plea for total inclusion: "If a ninja has a soul, then a ninja matters immensely." Then he mentions buttholes.
posted by zachlipton at 2:37 PM on September 16, 2017 [35 favorites]

V.Jay/ 2 Dope 2020: Do you want to sew a man's butthole shut? NOOO
posted by Rust Moranis at 2:55 PM on September 16, 2017 [3 favorites]

I don't know what the GOP position on buttholes is, but I'm sure it's wrong
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 3:01 PM on September 16, 2017 [21 favorites]

The Juggalo march seems to be going great though

For the Twitter-averse, please just know that Dale's feed is pretty fucking amazing:

Violent J says the Juggalos should be so proud today they should perform auto-fellatio under the "governmently-fine landscaped maple trees."

Violent J: "Intelligence is how to make a nuclear bomb. But wisdom is how not to use it. Juggalos have mad wisdom."

Just now:

Violent J concludes: "LET'S MARCH MOTHAFUCKAAAS." This completes my live-tweeting.

Look. What with speculation about Kid Rock running for office, America could do worse than a Violent J/Shaggy 2 Dope ticket in 2020.

And the fact is, you've already done worse...so really, what do you have to lose?
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 3:10 PM on September 16, 2017 [39 favorites]

don't you mean it's...ass-backward?

YEEEEAAAAAAHHHHHH

I was going to write "go home, lalex, you're drunk" but then I realized what I really meant was "I'll have what lalex is having."
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:15 PM on September 16, 2017 [19 favorites]

Well it's one two three
What are we voting for?
Don't ask me I don't give a damn
My next stop is Trumpistan.

(with sincere apologies to Country Joe McDonald)
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 3:16 PM on September 16, 2017 [6 favorites]

Look. What with speculation about Kid Rock running for office, America could do worse than a Violent J/Shaggy 2 Dope ticket in 2020.

If they run on this platform, I'm down with it.

its actually a pretty decent remake of that song.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 3:24 PM on September 16, 2017 [1 favorite]

I really like this sign.

For the Twitter adverse: "2017 IS WEIRD AND BAD"
posted by zachlipton at 3:28 PM on September 16, 2017 [22 favorites]

And from the march, an absolutely great protest sign.

For context for non-Twitter folks: The sign is being held up by a Juggalo on the Washington Mall and reads: "Dragnets/How do they work?"

Someone following Dale responded to the sign with:

Marquette Law Review, Volume 97, Issue 4, Summer 2014 Article 6 - Gang Definitions, How Do They Work?: What the Juggalos Teach Us About the Inadequacy of Current Anti-Gang Law (PDF)

Precisely what constitutes a gang has been a hotly contested academic issue for a century. Recently, this problem has ceased to be purely academic and has developed urgent, real-world consequences. Almost every state and the federal government has enacted anti-gang laws in the past several decades. These anti-gang statutes must define ‘gang’ in order to direct police suppression efforts and to criminally punish gang members or associates. These statutory gang definitions are all too often vague and overbroad, as the example of the Juggalos demonstrates. The Juggalos are the fans of Insane Clown Posse, and have been declared a gang by several states and organs of the federal government despite all evidence to the contrary. The Juggalos are merely one example of how overbroad gang definitions have enabled arbitrary and discriminatory police action.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 3:33 PM on September 16, 2017 [23 favorites]

1967 bullshit

I come here for a good time but honestly am feeling so attacked right now.
posted by maxwelton at 3:39 PM on September 16, 2017 [3 favorites]

ICP are deadly serious about their message of inclusion and tolerance and found-family - and also on addressing the "missing stair" issue by calling out family for their bullshit. They're very religious, but in a truly righteous way: their mission is to bring people to God, not bring God to the people.

They're not saints, oh hell no, and the Juggalos, being mostly the poor and disaffected, are not all choirboys and girlscouts. They sure as shit ain't a gang.

One other point - In the Pewdepie "apology" for shouting the "n" word on a published stream gaming-culture horror-show, I saw a tweet from someone who noted, "Marshal Mathers never once used the word in his entire career. It isn't part of his vocabulary."

The ICP realized this early on, and introduced "ninja" as a way of signifying a fellow-traveler for white kids. That word is not part of their vocabulary, either.
posted by Slap*Happy at 4:24 PM on September 16, 2017 [70 favorites]

Metafilter: I come here for a good time but honestly I am feeling so attacked right now.
posted by uosuaq at 4:31 PM on September 16, 2017 [11 favorites]

Class Clowns: Juggalos are marching on Washington ~~tomorrow~~ today — and the Left should support them.
posted by homunculus at 4:41 PM on September 16, 2017 [15 favorites]

I had some old friends who became juggaloes. Some of the most tragically economically and socially exploited good people who ended up not getting a fair shake from polite society most of their lives I've ever known (especially for white boys) and it makes me so happy and gratified to see them standing up to the bigots and Nazis. It really isn't true that just being white and male necessarily makes life easy or fair for everybody who hits those demographic markers. Economic disenfranhisement/poverty and family dysfunction can still be powerful impediments to health and human dignity in the U.S. And it's great to see that some of the disenfranchised angry white men, at least, aren't falling for the usual trick of letting their righteous anger be turned on their fellows among the oppressed via white supremacy and racism. I'll admit, my old friends aren't saints either but they're on the side of the angels now when it counts and personally I find that deeply beautiful and moving. Even though they'd probably make fun of me for saying that so earnestly and in such high toned diction (which also seems kind of beautiful to me).
posted by saulgoodman at 5:18 PM on September 16, 2017 [55 favorites]

Comey's Waltz. ("Prairie Home Companion" performance.)
posted by Coventry at 5:31 PM on September 16, 2017 [2 favorites]

For the Twitter adverse: "2017 IS WEIRD AND BAD"

'May you live in interesting times' indeed.
posted by RolandOfEld at 5:33 PM on September 16, 2017 [1 favorite]

And let's be real: The Donald's face paint is creepier than Violent J's or Shaggy's, or The Joker's, or even Pennywise's.
posted by oneswellfoop at 5:55 PM on September 16, 2017 [13 favorites]

tfw even Melania is done with him.
posted by Talez at 6:19 PM on September 16, 2017 [10 favorites]

re: previous comment, "The Joker" is intended to refer to Cesar Romero, Jack Nicholson or Heath Ledger... Jared Leto comes close in creepyness, but still not quite.
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:29 PM on September 16, 2017 [2 favorites]

St Louis police committed the property damage that they blamed on violent protesters
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:29 PM on September 16, 2017 [33 favorites]

tfw even Melania is done with him.

What's wrong with that? Every night before bed I give my intimate partner a semi-formal handshake and tell them to go sit down. It's just what loving couples do.
posted by petebest at 6:31 PM on September 16, 2017 [21 favorites]

He did that handshake thing with Ivanka, too, immediately after that weirdness of bringing her onstage and announcing he liked that she called him 'daddy.'

On preview,

What's wrong with that? Every night before bed I give my intimate partner a semi-formal handshake and tell them to go sit down. It's just what loving couples do.

I said the same thing!

Aw, I remember when my daddy used to call me over and greet me with a nice, firm handshake.

posted by Room 641-A at 6:35 PM on September 16, 2017

Look, the window was charging him, he didn't know if it was armed, sometimes cops have to make split-second decisions, we shouldn't rush to judgment.
posted by uosuaq at 6:35 PM on September 16, 2017 [29 favorites]

Surely "moral obligation" is the hilarious part there.
posted by uosuaq at 7:32 PM on September 16, 2017 [42 favorites]

> "Multibillionaire Donald Trump has a moral obligation to pay the mounting legal bills of his advisers who are facing four-, five- and six-figure costs just for doing their jobs"

mfw
posted by tonycpsu at 7:53 PM on September 16, 2017 [4 favorites]

Donald Trump has lived for over 70 years without EVER fulfilling a "moral obligation" to anybody*. Why do they expect him to begin now?

*and that probably got him more votes than his racism, sexism, billionairehood or 'outsider status', to be honest. He's the "guy who got away with EVERYTHING" that way too much of America envies. And way too much of America think 'envy' is the same as 'admiration'.
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:02 PM on September 16, 2017 [4 favorites]

At this point if you can get more than 5-10 white guys in one place without a neo-nazi, just call that a win.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:04 PM on September 16, 2017 [8 favorites]

Matt Taibbi: Single-Payer Movement Shows: Life After Trump May Not Suck. The flip side of the Trump phenomenon is that Democrats may finally be ready to offer voters something real
posted by homunculus at 8:08 PM on September 16, 2017 [6 favorites]

The issue ICP is protesting is truly Orwellian. For people to be legally disadvantaged in this way (simply because they sport tattoos indicating that they share musical tastes with a few assholes!) is tantamount to legislating a thought crime.
posted by Coventry at 8:09 PM on September 16, 2017 [48 favorites]

Democrats may finally be ready to offer voters something real

This is an actual sincere question for people who are better informed than I am because I have tried to go through Sanders' congressional record to find this out but there are decades of it, and maybe someone else will know off the tops of their heads.

Did Bernie Sanders introduce a single-payer bill when Obama was president and the Dems had Congress? Or other times in his career when the president and congressional majorities weren't republicans trying to dismantle federal healthcare as much as possible?
posted by mrmurbles at 8:16 PM on September 16, 2017 [2 favorites]

> Did Bernie Sanders introduce a single-payer bill when Obama was president and the Dems had Congress?

The Dems "had congress", with the requisite 60 vote majority in the Senate, for all of a couple months. Bernie did introduce a single-payer proposal, but of course it had no shot considering the ACA got the bare minimum number of votes.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:34 PM on September 16, 2017 [10 favorites]

In today's very special episode of "white supremacists who thought their faces were leopard-proof": How Trump’s Immigration Crackdown Threatens to Choke Idaho’s Dairy Industry

Local milk people: "we didn't think we would be the local milk people"
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:42 PM on September 16, 2017 [26 favorites]

Video of the attack.

All five-year-olds should be treated as gang members because Tony threw a can at Alice's head in kindergarten seven years ago.
posted by Coventry at 8:50 PM on September 16, 2017

tfw even Melania is done with him.

You libtards didn't mind when Obama did the same thing!

Except with, y'know, love and affection.
posted by kirkaracha at 8:52 PM on September 16, 2017 [1 favorite]

2010 incidents between Juggalos and Tila Tequila are not germane to the thread.
posted by Eyebrows McGee (staff) at 9:08 PM on September 16, 2017 [23 favorites]

St Louis police committed the property damage that they blamed on violent protesters

To paraphrase the NRA: "The only thing that stops a bad cop with a gun, is a good cop with a gun." I haven't seen a very many good cops lately. I'd like to see this be more of a thing. (...maybe losing the "with a gun" part.)

If YOU, Officer Just-Trying-To-Do-My-Job aren't actively invested in police reform, then you are a Bad Guy, not a Good Guy.
posted by Anoplura at 9:56 PM on September 16, 2017 [8 favorites]

Drew Philip (Guardian), 'The new Obama': will Abdul El-Sayed be America's first Muslim governor?:

“I believe in a separation of church and state,” he started, making a note that John F Kennedy’s Catholicism was also a turning point in American politics.

"I can tell you that my ability to practice my faith in person, in my own home, when I choose to, where I’m allowed to, because of freedoms in this country have everything to do with that separation of church and state,” he said. “If I am going to want to be able to put my face on the ground 34 times a day, like I do, because I’m Muslim, I want to make sure no one can take that right away from me. And I will not take that right away from anyone else.”

He received an enormous round of applause after answering the question – in a nearly completely white and Christian room – and a standing ovation at the end of the event, that went over time by almost an hour.

Afterward, I asked the man who asked the Sharia question if, after hearing El-Sayed speak, he thought he would bring Sharia law to the US.

“No,” the man said. “I don’t.”

His launch speech is a little rough around the edges, but worth a listen.
posted by bardophile at 10:11 PM on September 16, 2017 [30 favorites]

VIRGINIA HOUSE ELECTIONS - HD 41-45

intro
1-5
6-10
11-15
16-20
21-25
26-30
31-35
36-40

===

41st District
Currently Dem seat
R cand: none
D cand: Eileen Filler-Corn (incumbent)

DC suburbs (Fairfax), 67.6% white. Incumbent first elected in 2010 special. D won 57-39 in 2013, no R candidate in 2015. Clinton won district 63-31.

===

42nd District
Currently GOP seat
R cand: Lolita Mancheno-Smoak
D cand: Kathy Tran

DC suburbs (Fairfax), 69.0% white. R won 60-40 in 2013 and 63-37 in 2015. Clinton won district 59-36. Ballotpedia Race To Watch and Flippable Priority district.

===

43rd District
Currently Dem seat
R cand: none
D cand: Mark Sickles (incumbent)

DC suburbs (Fairfax), 59.2% white. Incumbent first elected in 2003. No R candidate in 2013, D won 63-33 in 2015. Clinton won district 69-25.

===

44th District
Currently Dem seat
R cand: none
D cand: Paul Krizek (incumbent)

DC suburbs (Fairfax), 55.4% white. Incumbent first elected in 2015. No R candidate in 2013 or 2015. Clinton won district 69-26.

===

45th District
Currently Dem seat
R cand: none
D cand: Mark Levine (incumbent)

DC suburbs (Alexandria), 74.7% white. Incumbent first elected in 2015. No R candidate in 2013 or 2015. Clinton won district 75-18.

===

Next time: 46-50.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:22 PM on September 16, 2017 [28 favorites]

John Cole: Their Remarkable Patience

Now look, I know the last fucking thing this planet needs is another hot take on race from a middle-aged male so white that French vanilla ice cream looks tan next to my skin, and I know I am not a first rate intellect or an amazing writer, nor do I have the experiences of being black in America, but you’re getting one anyway because I need to get this shit off my chest. Do white people truly not understand that black people in America are some of the most patient people on the fucking planet? And I truly mean that. Because if white people had gone through 1/100th of what black people have collectively, and the roles were reversed, this is what St. Louis would look like right now after a black cop murdered yet another white person, planted the weapon, and then got acquitted: [...]

That is not an exaggeration. We white people rioted for the simple reason a black man got fairly elected. We (and this is a royal we) lost our fucking shit when the black President suggested that maybe a white policeman shouldn’t have gone Robocop on a college professor on his front porch for, well, being black. We demanded he have the fucking cop over for a beer. Do you remember that shit? I can’t even think about it without rolling my fucking eyes in disgust at my fellow white people. Jesus fucking christ. [...]

If roles were reversed, we’d have white terror cells that would make ISIS and Al Qaeda blush. As it is, roles are not reversed and the fucking racists are trying to get there anyway. So yeah. Shut the fuck up and count your lucky stars you are white and thank your god that shit has worked out the way it has. Because we’re lucky as fuck that the sum total of the black response is to form nonviolent groups like Black Lives Matter and the NAACP and what not, maybe a few randoms obliquely discussing reparations, and a few fucking broken windows every now and then when black people are murdered in the fucking street by an unrepentant white power structure.

posted by tonycpsu at 10:51 PM on September 16, 2017 [148 favorites]

a few fucking broken windows now and then

And we now know that at least some of the damage can't even be blamed on the protestors. From the way the police failed to react, I think they've seen this sort of false-flaggery before.
posted by Joe in Australia at 11:28 PM on September 16, 2017 [4 favorites]

These anti-gang statutes must define ‘gang’ in order to direct police suppression efforts and to criminally punish gang members or associates. These statutory gang definitions are all too often vague and overbroad, as the example of the Juggalos demonstrates.

Honestly, I'm pretty sure a lot of the anti-gang law - especially the bit about multiple gang members hanging out with each other - is pretty flatly unconstitutional, but it's never come to court because it is mostly used against young black men who don't have the money for expensive constitutional lawyers.
posted by corb at 3:19 AM on September 17, 2017 [35 favorites]

I left Ireland 30 yrs ago sadly never having known a 'woke' Irishman...

I read 'What Happened' this week & was keen to see what the Irish Reviewers wrote so I saw this today on Twitter and felt unaccountably sad & proud...

It led me down a rabbit whole of other Irish writers response to the Trump election that I'd not see before....
posted by Wilder at 5:23 AM on September 17, 2017 [10 favorites]

Half an hour ago the president of the United States went on a shitposting tear, retweeting (among others) a "keep it up libs" meme, a train with a MAGA hat photoshopped onto it, and a video from user @Fuctupmind of Trump hitting Hillary in the back of the head with a golf ball. Then someone must have wrestled the phone away from him, because the account tweeted out a video about him giving money to hurricane victims with the tag "My great honor!"
posted by EarBucket at 5:31 AM on September 17, 2017 [25 favorites]

Our insane, needy president is on quite the tweetstorm this morning, retweeting random accounts that are saying nice things about him or attacking his "enemies." Including:

1) One that shows an electoral map with all the states red with the text "Keep it up Libs and this will be 2020."

2) One that says "Donald Trump's amazing golf swing #CrookedHillary" with a video of Trump teeing off and then cuts to Hillary walking onto a plane and falling, with a golf ball added in post hitting her and causing it. From the account @fuctupmind

3) And to complement the violence above, one with the full-on fascist Dear Leader message of "Only true Americans can see that president Trump is making America great. He's the only person who can! Haters are jealous of his success 🇺🇸"

He's also come up with a nickname for KJU. Which isn't his best. I'm thinking KJU might embrace this one.

"I spoke with President Moon of South Korea last night. Asked him how Rocket Man is doing. Long gas lines forming in North Korea. Too bad!"

posted by chris24 at 5:32 AM on September 17, 2017 [15 favorites]

And now (still not making this up) it's tweeted a Bloomberg article about how much money Trump makes for Twitter.
posted by EarBucket at 5:32 AM on September 17, 2017 [14 favorites]

This is not a stable person.
posted by waitingtoderail at 5:37 AM on September 17, 2017 [58 favorites]

Good Morning MetaFilter Alt Time-Travelers of the 904. I won't take a lot of time on the pleasantries, let's get right to it.

You assignment today is in the year 2017, and . . okay, okay, settle down . . . is in the year 2017. You'll be dropped into DC on the mall for your choice of one of two rallies. The supporters of President Donald Trump, who - woah! Woah hold up! He- easy now, yes he became president for a brief while in the early twenty-teens. Yeah.

Yes, 2puck? No I'm not drunk but thanks for asking, can we get on with it now? Somebody pass the Kleenex to carlwilson here. Okay. *ahem* the other rally is held by Juggalos, who have been listed as a criminal gang. I know. Yes, nicely whooped there Huffalump. Here, we're going to run the briefing materials now.

Nine months into the administration of President Donald Trump, fans of the eccentric Detroit rap duo Insane Clown Posse assembled a larger rally on the national mall this Saturday than the president’s diehard supporters stationed a few hundred yards away.

Kevin Gill, an employee for the band and host of a Juggalo podcast, gave the opening remarks, calling the rally, “The most important day in Juggalo history.” This protest was “some monumental shit,” he added, before ripping into a denunciation of the FBI for categorizing Juggalos as a gang. In response, the crowd broke into a raucous chant about the much-hated FBI, “They fucked up! They fucked up!”

“Give us back our fucking civil rights,” Gill shouted.

Okay I think we all know what we need to do. So get in there, smoke some weed, save democracy, and get out. Alright? Let's be careful out there. And may the quidnunc be with you.
posted by petebest at 5:40 AM on September 17, 2017 [42 favorites]

the window was charging him, he didn't know if it was armed, sometimes cops have to make split-second decisions

Young Master Flabdablet has just had to deprive his new budgerigar of its new mirror for much the same reason.
posted by flabdablet at 5:46 AM on September 17, 2017 [6 favorites]

The sad thing is even in sixth grade my friends who were juggaloes got stigmatized as possible gang members by our local school administration. Why? They wore leather jackets to school every day for a couple of months because their parents had abandoned them alone at home with no clean clothes and that was all they had left to wear. They were just kids trying to survive and make do with a crappy hand they were dealt and all the polite white school authorities stigmatized and persecuted them when they needed help most. It was one of the saddest things I've seen in a life full of sad examples of wasted human potential.
posted by saulgoodman at 5:51 AM on September 17, 2017 [52 favorites]

Poor Treasury Barbie, torn apart by the Guardian

I wish it wasn't so misogynysterical... but it's still schadenfreuderrific
posted by Mchelly at 6:08 AM on September 17, 2017 [8 favorites]

The day the real Insane Clown Posse presented a more coherent, popular and credible political stance than the fake insane clown posse inside the WH...

So noted.
posted by Devonian at 6:43 AM on September 17, 2017 [48 favorites]

Long gas lines forming in North Korea.

Yeah, and I hear Kim Jong Un's Nielsen Ratings are just shit
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:48 AM on September 17, 2017 [16 favorites]

Re: Poor Treasury Barbie

Other highlights? Her repeated insistence that the infamous social media post “does not reflect” who she is. And yet, having had a good look at Louise’s Instagram before she locked it down, I suspect it reflected her like a striplit mirror in a nightclub at 4am: horrendous, but you are probably better off knowing. She seems to be suffering from a textbook case of personality dysmorphia, where she imagines herself possessed of enormous humility and charm, but is, in reality, a boring little monster.

When all of this is over - and it will be over, one way or another, sooner rather than later - We'll have to tai-chi our way through hundreds of these sorry-not-sorry flatulent magazine spreads from Chao's Husband's Wife on down. They will not be successful.

How y'doin Dick Cheney? Still indignant and war-crimey? I got my dancin' shoes on, muthafucka!
posted by petebest at 6:53 AM on September 17, 2017 [10 favorites]

This morning's tweetstorm really has me on edge. I haven't experienced this kind of distracting and overbearing anxiety in a while. It really makes me sympathetic to what some people with less controlled Psychiatric issues are going through. Anyone who grew up under the control of an unhinged and increasingly unwell parent/guardian must be having flashbacks right now.

I feel like it also validates my suspicion that he takes some kind of powerful psychostimulant in the morning, and the "sundowning" people often comment on is more a manifestation of his stimulant(s) wearing off.
posted by prosopagnosia at 7:10 AM on September 17, 2017 [30 favorites]

Long gas lines forming in North Korea.

Yeah, and I hear Kim Jong Un's Nielsen Ratings are just shit

A tiny number of people in NK have cars and are permitted to fill them. Not enough cars for long gas lines to form anywhere, ever. He thinks it's a bizarro USA 70s-era gas crisis over there. This motherfucker has no idea what's going on and he has the power to end all our lives on a whim.

If humanity survives, in a few centuries we'll have tiny shrines to household gods in the corner of every hut. Among the figurines and votives will be a representation of the idiot god-man who could destroy the world at any moment. Maybe he'll, like, eat the sun if we don't burn a raisin in his little offering-bowl every day.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:17 AM on September 17, 2017 [22 favorites]

Look, the window was charging him, he didn't know if it was armed, sometimes cops have to make split-second decisions, we shouldn't rush to judgment.

... and it was tinted.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 7:26 AM on September 17, 2017 [23 favorites]

I feel like it also validates my suspicion that he takes some kind of powerful psychostimulant in the morning, and the "sundowning" people often comment on is more a manifestation of his stimulant(s) wearing off.

Could be both, but given the extra-unhinged aspect, I'm thinking the news that Mueller got a search warrant for Facebook accounts ( and this is really a legitimate legal issue ) must have really driven him nuts. Especially if the Adults in the room convinced him he CANNOT go after Mueller.
posted by mikelieman at 7:34 AM on September 17, 2017 [11 favorites]

Especially if the Adults in the room convinced him he CANNOT go after Mueller.

Welp - I guess we know what happens next. Y'all got your plans for what to do when he fires Mueller?
posted by petebest at 7:35 AM on September 17, 2017 [2 favorites]

Or he is just re-eestablishing his bona fides with his base after all those "Chuck and Nancy" stories.
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:37 AM on September 17, 2017 [2 favorites]

If Trump fires Mueller...
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:38 AM on September 17, 2017 [21 favorites]

Poor Treasury Barbie, torn apart by the Guardian

Bill Clinton or Obama would have long since been forced to fire Mnuchin after a cable news firestorm that lasted for weeks but in this administration this stuff barely makes the top ten list of atrocities.
posted by octothorpe at 7:42 AM on September 17, 2017 [35 favorites]

Probably worth it / of interest to post the relevant section from the page OnceUponAAtime linked to above:

That's why we're preparing to hold emergency "Nobody is Above the Law" rallies around the country in the event they are needed.

Use the map or search below by ZIP code to find an event near you, or create one if none exists.

Rallies will begin hours after news breaks of a Mueller firing:

If Mueller is fired BEFORE 2 P.M. local time —> events will begin @ 5 P.M. local time
If Mueller is fired AFTER 2 P.M. local time —> events will begin @ noon local time the following day
This is the general plan—please confirm details on your event page, as individual hosts may tailor their events to their local plan.

posted by petebest at 8:03 AM on September 17, 2017 [21 favorites]

He thinks it's a bizarro USA 70s-era gas crisis over there.

Now I see the people of NK wearing unnaturally wide neckties and spending all their time on CB radio
posted by thelonius at 8:15 AM on September 17, 2017 [8 favorites]

Mentioned upthread, Trump Retweeted A Video From An Anti-Semitic Account Showing Him Hitting Hillary Clinton With A Golf Ball

President Trump on Sunday morning retweeted a doctored video showing him hitting HIllary Clinton with a golf ball — from an account that makes racial, anti-semitic, and anti-LGBT comments.

At least we can put paid to the idea that Trump is some kind of white supremacist. Finally, and objectively I think we can all agree, this is the pivot.
posted by petebest at 9:04 AM on September 17, 2017 [37 favorites]

Finally, and objectively I think we can all agree, this is the pivot.

all I can hear when I think of chuck schumer right now is a sad trombone sound
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:09 AM on September 17, 2017 [2 favorites]

"I spoke with President Moon of South Korea last night. Asked him how Rocket Man is doing. Long gas lines forming in North Korea. Too bad!"

And I think it's gonna be a long long time till touchdown brings me round again to find the man who runs the country back at home is batshit fucking insane.

Put me back on the rocket, man.
posted by Talez at 9:10 AM on September 17, 2017 [18 favorites]

He has spoken loudly and carried a little stick.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:09 AM on September 17, 2017 [3 favorites]

Eet ees a greht plehssure to eentrohduce my haasband, the Prezdent of de Younited Schtehts, Donald Chump.

This is the first time I have heard Melania Trump speak. It speaks volumes. She has a sweet voice, and it is doubtlessly difficult to be Melania Trump, regardless of what her privilege seems. In fact, I doubt that Melania is allowed to exist at all, unless she is moonlighting. This, I wouldn't doubt for a second.

These are very white is black, and black is white times. I used to think that GW Bush's administration was the biggest robbery of the last two centuries, and now I am sure that Trump and his handlers will put that to shame.

With great deliberation of forethought, drown the coastal cities of the world, drive the refugees inland to survival slavery, those that survive, will compete with robots for work. With limited, but effective nuclear war, the 1% will hire whom they choose to survive with them, Byzantine will seem charitable by the time the new paradigm sets up.
posted by Oyéah at 10:15 AM on September 17, 2017 [4 favorites]

Many pointed out how the Red Sox racism banner was super vague and could have gone either way. Turns out the banner stunt was, indeed, right wingers
posted by Yowser at 10:16 AM on September 17, 2017 [17 favorites]

Kirkaracha - I read that as "little dick." I must need even moar coffee.

Shower thought re Treasury Barbie: do horrid rich people rescue cats? Bond villains may carry cats around, but it seems that rich socialites are either dog people or no-pet people. Just a small petty thought but anything to dislike the Linton/Mnuchins even more.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 10:17 AM on September 17, 2017 [4 favorites]

It's the Obama boom; don't let Trump forget it.

In 2008, Americans chose to put Democrats, led by Barack Obama, in charge, in order to clean up the mess left by George W. Bush and the Republicans who had implemented their policies in previous years. Obama and the Democrats, as the data shows, did a damn good job, a much better one than the other party did when they had a turn. Democratic policies—while not perfect—performed much better for most Americans, in particular those at or below the middle, than those of Republicans.

The media and anyone with a public platform must work to prevent Donald Trump—who has changed essentially nothing about our country’s economic policies—from succeeding in the falsification of yet another set of facts. He cannot be allowed to claim the Obama boom as his own.

posted by darkstar at 10:48 AM on September 17, 2017 [17 favorites]

He has spoken loudly and carried a little stick.

Along those lines Eliot Cohen has a good article in The Atlantic that takes a look into how our greatest foreign policy challenges are being unmet by the Trump administration: How Trump Is Ending the American Era.
posted by peeedro at 11:06 AM on September 17, 2017 [9 favorites]

Ending the American Era

You know how one of the factors contributing to the fall of Rome was the corrupt, narcissistic, feckless leaders?

Yeah.
posted by darkstar at 11:18 AM on September 17, 2017 [15 favorites]

I read that as 'little dick.' I must need even moar coffee.

I think that's implied.
posted by kirkaracha at 11:39 AM on September 17, 2017

thank you donald trump for jogging a dusty old brain cell and reminding me that this is something that exists
posted by entropicamericana at 12:34 PM on September 17, 2017 [7 favorites]

Eliot Cohen has a good article in The Atlantic that takes a look into how our greatest foreign policy challenges are being unmet by the Trump administration: How Trump Is Ending the American Era.

One of the more enjoyable bits of this spectacle is the whining of neocon and imperialist filth like this shitstain. And this one had some real rich lines that cracked me up too, like "the large-spiritedness of President George W. Bush".
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 1:07 PM on September 17, 2017 [7 favorites]

Kamala Harris: "So it looks like you've been in bed with the Russians."
Cohen: "Says who?"
Kamala Harris: "Our intelligence agencies..."
Cohen "Which ones?"
Kamala Harris: "All of them."
posted by Talez at 2:01 PM on September 17, 2017 [42 favorites]

I would hope that Trump is as fucking miserable and desperate as he sounds as per today's tweet storm, but then I remember the nukes he has.
posted by angrycat at 2:11 PM on September 17, 2017 [7 favorites]

If there's an overarching theme to The Orange Wig, it's his miserable desperateness.
posted by petebest at 2:14 PM on September 17, 2017 [1 favorite]

"I spoke with President Moon of South Korea last night. Asked him how Rocket Man is doing. Long gas lines forming in North Korea. Too bad!"

Maybe I am way off base, but this reads to me like the sort of plausible but intentionally wrong thing you feed someone who you think is full of shit. I'm sure the gas shortage is breaking hearts across North Korea in the moments between hunger pangs.
posted by feloniousmonk at 2:30 PM on September 17, 2017 [1 favorite]

We embargoed their oil and that's what happens when oil is embargoed, so duh of course there are gas lines. Follow the logic people!
posted by Horkus at 2:41 PM on September 17, 2017 [2 favorites]

(of course I meant, "follow the logic,[comma] people." I have no affiliation with The Logic People, which is the best Children's Television Workshop show from the 70s that was never made.)
posted by Horkus at 2:44 PM on September 17, 2017 [35 favorites]

I thought it was a racial slur for Vulcans.
posted by Coventry at 2:48 PM on September 17, 2017 [9 favorites]

Also, North Koreans don't have the freedom of movement within their own country, privately owned automobiles are not much of a thing there. So the mental image of gas lines is pretty misleading.

Also, many Americans just experienced waiting in lines for scarce gasoline in Florida and Texas, so it's way beyond tone-deaf to say "gas lines, too bad!"
posted by peeedro at 2:54 PM on September 17, 2017 [14 favorites]

I have to say I'm enjoying Stephen King on twitter using his title of creator of imaginary fucked up shit to proclaim Trump is some fucked up shit. For that, I forgive him the infamous It sex scene. He still has some Dark Tower stuff Book Five on to answer for, though.
posted by angrycat at 3:09 PM on September 17, 2017 [9 favorites]

There sure seems like an awful lack of attention on the news etc when we're one vote away from the worst-yes health care bill. I think its gonna pass guys.
posted by Justinian at 3:14 PM on September 17, 2017 [7 favorites]

Many pointed out how the Red Sox racism banner was super vague and could have gone either way. Turns out the banner stunt was, indeed, right wingers

Because this is 2017, nothing is easy or makes much sense, but here goes. A group of five people opposed to racism smuggled the banner into Fenway and then unfurled it. The Boston Globe interviewed the woman who packed it into her bag (figuring she'd be the most likely to get it past security because she's white and female and "wore something cute").

Next, Boston Antifa, which, in fact, is a right-wing Facebook-based troll group, took credit for the banner. No, they had nothing to do with the banner.
posted by adamg at 3:29 PM on September 17, 2017 [33 favorites]

I'm seeing a lot of Twitter fired up about this latest attempt to gut the ACA, so there's something at least. We're not going to take this lying down.
posted by spinifex23 at 3:32 PM on September 17, 2017 [4 favorites]

It has been a bumper year for Islamophobia in the US. At times, it feels as if all I can do is keep my head down and ride out the storm.
I’ve always been an Arab. It was only when I moved to the US I realised I was ‘brown’.
It is an astounding fraternity, this brownness – a term applied to Central and South Americans, Arabs, Persians, south-east Asians, an assortment of human beings so broad in origin and experience that they may as well literally be called “Other”.
posted by adamvasco at 3:49 PM on September 17, 2017 [19 favorites]

Fahrenthold et al have another follow the money piece up at the WaPo, Trump’s divisive presidency reshapes a key part of his private business. This one covers both the business he's losing and the new business he's gained. Trump is making money from political campaigns and committees:

At least 27 federal political committees — including Trump’s reelection campaign — have flocked to his properties. They’ve spent $363,701 in just seven months, according to campaign-finance reports. In addition, the Republican Governors Association paid more than $408,000 to hold an event this spring at the Trump National Doral golf resort, according to tax filings, a gathering the group said was booked back in February 2015.

He's making money from trade groups looking for domestic policy changes:

In July, a trade group representing e-cigarette makers and vape shop owners brought about 150 people to the hotel. They paid $285 per guest room. They also paid to rent a ballroom, and reserve the hotel’s Lincoln Library, though the vapers wouldn’t say how much they cost.

Ten days after the group checked out, it scored a victory.

An Obama-era regulation requiring stricter government oversight of e-cigarette products, was put on hold by the Food and Drug Administration.

And he's making money from groups looking for foreign policy changes:

Alembik said he will charge $600 per ticket. He expects 700 guests. That’s $420,000. In theory, Alembik said, any leftover proceeds will go to an Israeli charity called The Truth About Israel.

But, Alembik said, Trump’s club will probably keep most of the money. He said he’d recently seen an estimate of the costs. He declined to say what the number was, but said: “My God, they’re expensive. Holy crap.”

“With what Mar-a-Lago charges,” he said, “I don’t think there’s going to be much left over.” Alembik was fine with the idea that he was putting money into the president’s pocket: “Yeah, and the other ones are taking money out of his pocket,” he said, meaning the charities that canceled after Charlottesville.

posted by peeedro at 4:42 PM on September 17, 2017 [34 favorites]

The Chronicle of Higher Education: Speaking at Berkeley With Milo Yiannopoulos? It’s News to Them (via):

Yet several of the people on the list say they will not be speaking at the event, and in some cases weren’t even contacted about speaking there. Among them is Charles Murray, the scholar at the center of a fracas in March at Middlebury College that left a professor injured.

"The inclusion of my name in the list of speakers was done without my knowledge or permission," Mr. Murray wrote in an email to The Chronicle. "I will add that I would never under any circumstances appear at an event that included Milo Yiannopoulos."

Asked why he wouldn’t appear with him, Mr. Murray said: "Because he is a despicable asshole."

I'm gonna go ahead and root for injuries in that lover's spat.

Also:

Another, the author Michael Malice, said on his Twitter feed that he would not attend the event. He is listed on The Daily Californian’s website as one of the slated speakers, but not on the Berkeley Free Speech Week website. Mr. Murray’s name had been removed from the event website as of Friday afternoon.

Michael Malice? Seriously, writers?
posted by tonycpsu at 4:52 PM on September 17, 2017 [25 favorites]

on the one hand, ADAPT right now is working to organize its national meeting next week and do the crazy logistics of getting people with various medical needs there from all over the country, so I wonder how distracted the organization is. On the other hand, ADAPT will be together en masse, and these are people who charged police lines in their wheelchairs and then crawled to senator's office when stairs were in the way, so I imagine the heat from their outrage will power a zillion suns.

The nice thing about being disabled is you get used to having to deal with bullshit every day, whether it's that your own body has decided to create your own personal hell or the salesperson decides he's only going to talk to your companion because if you're in a wheelchair, clearly you lack the wherewithal to negotiate a fucking cell phone agreement.

So I'm worried the country might be worn down by the daily vomit of awful, I have faith that activists like ADAPT folks are going to be back and madder and badder.
posted by angrycat at 4:54 PM on September 17, 2017 [46 favorites]

Michael Malice? Seriously, writers?

It's not his real name. A nom de loon, if you will.
posted by Faint of Butt at 5:17 PM on September 17, 2017 [9 favorites]

Michael Malice? Seriously, writers?

The event has since been rebranded Listen Without Malice
posted by Jon Mitchell at 5:21 PM on September 17, 2017 [6 favorites]

I'm not watching the Emmys, but apparently they just had Sean Spicer show up [video] (longer clip, lower quality), like the actual Sean Spicer, to announce that "this will be the largest audience to witness an Emmys period. Both in person and around the world."

Even though the tone was attempting to be mocking, what if we didn't reward people for being utter and complete lying assholes by putting them on prime-time TV? Just a thought.
posted by zachlipton at 5:24 PM on September 17, 2017 [73 favorites]

Maybe Melissa McCarthy refused, so they had to go with their second choice.
posted by Faint of Butt at 5:29 PM on September 17, 2017 [7 favorites]

It's big derision for a man called Malice.
posted by kirkaracha at 5:32 PM on September 17, 2017 [11 favorites]

I oppose the cutesy rehabilitation of the disgusting Spicey's image with every fiber of my being. I will not even look at any of his appearances. He should be seeking penance, literally (as a Catholic) and figuratively, not making the rounds of talk shows.
posted by Miko at 5:32 PM on September 17, 2017 [26 favorites]

In 2017 America (like America for most of the 21st Century), "making the rounds of the talk shows" IS, sadly, the current version of "seeking penance".
posted by oneswellfoop at 5:38 PM on September 17, 2017 [2 favorites]

I really disagree. It is 100% to ensure the furtherance of his hoped-for lucrative speaking career. That's not penance.
posted by Miko at 5:41 PM on September 17, 2017 [18 favorites]

This is the same country that welcomed all the Bush Administration war criminals back with no consequences whatsoever. Dick Cheney, Paul Wolfowitz, Ari Fietcher, all of them walk free as week speak, and get paid millions every year to sit on boards and give bullshit speeches. There is literally no possible way for a Republican to be held accountable, no matter what crimes they committed while in office.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:46 PM on September 17, 2017 [18 favorites]

Absolutely no penance is required for the FauxNews branch of The Media, but a round of smiling at Stephen Colbert while he makes fun of you to your face is the easy way to weasel your way back into the good graces of those who, two years ago, considered Donald Trump a Comical Figure in both Politics and Business.

Jay Rosen's latest writing, on "The Normalization of Trump" is mostly perceptive but it misses the obvious fact that this 'normalization' is learning to treat him the same way they did when he wasn't President.
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:01 PM on September 17, 2017 [4 favorites]

Dipshit "moderates" like Jimmy Kimmel and Ellen were only too happy once George W. Bush put on his absent minded grandpa routine, painted some completely shit pictures, and sold a book to give a pittance back to the people he needlessly sent to war. Dipshit "moderates" on CNN will coo and wipe their brows whenever trump does something that has the faintest hint of 'presidential', because it means they can get back to covering the presidency like normal. Those same dipshit "moderates" are going to rehabilitate Sean Spicer into a comical blowhard, instead of a fucking fascist mouthpiece who basically threatened the very existence of the press from one of the most powerful non-elected positions that interfaces with journalists. I bet a lot of these dipshit "moderates" are all about a fake veneration of the three sentences of Martin Luther King that they pretend to know, but here's a quote they should take to heart,

"First, I must confess that over the last few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to 'order' than to justice..."

All of these people don't want justice or equality. They want things to go back to normal.
posted by codacorolla at 6:15 PM on September 17, 2017 [63 favorites]

I'm still dealing with the notion that Spicer is a real person who can exist outside of the White House. I assumed he was a golem sewn together from old flour sacks or something.
posted by Horkus at 6:17 PM on September 17, 2017 [13 favorites]

"Mr. Cobb" did that shit on purpose. Come on.
posted by rhizome at 6:18 PM on September 17, 2017 [7 favorites]

This is your regular reminder to call your members of congress. The GOP thinks they might have the votes to pass ACA repeal. Call tonight and leave a voice mail so that staffers start the week innundated with angry constituent messages. Do you have all Democrat MOCs? Contact anyone you know in red states and ask them to call their MOCs. Give them phone numbers and scripts to make it easy.

32 million Americans will lose insurance if this bill passes. Medicaid as we know it will end. Insurance companies will be able to raise their rates at any point if you get sick. (Think about that, you get, say, a cancer diagnosis and have to worry that the insurance company will immediately make your insurance unaffordable.) Pre-existing conditions protections will be gone.
posted by mcduff at 6:19 PM on September 17, 2017 [30 favorites]

These people are fucking morons.
posted by zachlipton at 6:23 PM on September 17, 2017 [3 favorites]

I dunno, I feel that Spicer openly mocking his previous behaviours reinforces that this entire administration has been a joke, a farce, and completely outside of norms.

The wink and nudge at SNL helps a little; I'd love to hear Melissa McCarthy's reasoned take, after seeing her facial reaction.

nevermind. gah.

Former White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer has warmed up to Melissa McCarthy's Emmy-winning portrayal of him on "Saturday Night Live." So much so that he thinks he deserves a piece of the gilded pie.

When asked earlier this week if McCarthy owes him part of her award, Spicer grinned and said, "I think we should share."

posted by porpoise at 6:32 PM on September 17, 2017

> I dunno, I feel that Spicer openly mocking his previous behaviours reinforces that this entire administration has been a joke, a farce, and completely outside of norms.

This is the kind of thing described by Baudrillardian fascination and deterrence which has been constantly mocked by Anglo-Saxons as the typical French bullshit culpable for the destruction of the polite and rational society.
posted by runcifex at 6:46 PM on September 17, 2017 [7 favorites]

The uncertainty has grown to the point that White House officials privately express fear that colleagues may be wearing a wire to surreptitiously record conversations for Mr. Mueller.

This made me smile.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 6:48 PM on September 17, 2017 [43 favorites]

The friction escalated in recent days after Mr. Cobb was overheard by a reporter for The New York Times discussing the dispute during a lunchtime conversation at a popular Washington steakhouse.

I think I would die of self-disgust and heart attacks if I lunched at the kind of places these people do their loud big man talking, but knowing that I actually could go and spend some afternoons at the bars of gross awful importantman steakfactories and come away with some exciting state secrets is making it so hard not to. there can't be very many different places this could be. I bet I have been to work drinks wherever this is and I bet it was awful.

best part is that shitty DC restaurants are LOUD and it is not hard to get some sound camouflage if you must do your secret-telling at the table in the open, but some guys like YELLING about their important job hassles to be overheard, so that everybody knows they have a hard job doing important stuff. and you know that's what this was.
posted by queenofbithynia at 6:51 PM on September 17, 2017 [5 favorites]

I'm just bemused/agog/awestruck by the huge machine this White House is, and so much bigger than any prior one.

Every one of the staff has a personal lawyer, and each of the staff's personal lawyers have their own lawyers.

And all of the PR people flocking like remora.
posted by yesster at 6:51 PM on September 17, 2017 [5 favorites]

"From 2000 to 2001, Spicer was the communications director on the House Government Reform Committee, and from 2001 to 2002 he was director of incumbent retention at the National Republican Congressional Committee (NRCC).[36]
...
From 2003 to 2005,[36] Spicer was the communications director and spokesman for the House Budget Committee.[3] He subsequently was the communications director for the Republican Conference of the U.S. House of Representatives, and then, from 2006 to 2009, was the assistant for media and public affairs at the Office of the United States Trade Representative in President George W. Bush's administration.[37] He wore an Easter bunny suit during the White House Easter Egg Rolls.

In February 2011, Spicer became the communications director of the Republican National Committee.[41] At the RNC, he enlarged the organization's social media operations, built an in-house TV production team, and created a rapid response program to reply to attacks.[37] In February 2015, he was given an additional role, as chief strategist for the party.[42]
...
From 2009 to 2011, Spicer was a partner at Endeavor Global Strategies, a public relations firm he co-founded to represent foreign governments and corporations with business before the U.S. government.[39] His clients included the government of Colombia, which was then seeking a free trade agreement with the U.S. amid public criticism of its human rights record.[40]"

His job is literally to be the cute face of evil. A bunny suit FFS. An expert for hire in the pernicious hijacking of disarming cuteness for war criminals, bigots, and corrupt politicians.

Trump broke him like Trump breaks everyone, but Spicer is by no means bad at his job. He's an evil golem made from sewn-together sacks of corgis and baby skunks. Drink Not the Koolaid.
posted by saysthis at 6:54 PM on September 17, 2017 [18 favorites]

"Mr. Cobb" did that shit on purpose. Come on.

you know it does occur to me, do all these big-eared NYT reporters know all the various lawyers by sight as well as by name? They might, but then again they might not. some hero with a big boxy suit and some jowls and a loud baritone ought to go have an experiment lunch with a friend and yell some "secrets" back and forth, addressing each other by whatever names seem exciting this week. see what's in the papers the next day. for science.
posted by queenofbithynia at 6:54 PM on September 17, 2017 [10 favorites]

(of course I meant, "follow the logic,[comma] people." I have no affiliation with The Logic People, which is the best Children's Television Workshop show from the 70s that was never made.)
posted by Horkus

I'm big enough to admit I actually Googled that.
posted by BS Artisan at 7:00 PM on September 17, 2017 [18 favorites]

you know it does occur to me, do all these big-eared NYT reporters know all the various lawyers by sight as well as by name?

I think they recognized Ty Cobb because he looks like a ice cream salesman from 1910
posted by theodolite at 7:06 PM on September 17, 2017 [54 favorites]

you know it does occur to me, do all these big-eared NYT reporters know all the various lawyers by sight as well as by name?

Any DC reporters who don't know what Ty Cobb looks like should be fired immediately. He's kind of distinctive looking.
posted by adamg at 7:10 PM on September 17, 2017 [7 favorites]

There's so much to that steakhouse conversation.

1) Pretty incredible that Cobb is apparently unaware of whatever evidence McGahn is hiding in his safe. Top notch legal defense.
2) McGahn is almost certainly a target himself, and if he wasn't he sure is now. Withholding evidence is not going to look good.
3) Why is McGahn making decisions on what documents to produce again? He's at minimum a witness in the investigation, he should not be involved whatsoever in the legal defense.
4) WHY ARE YOU DISCUSSING CLIENT MATTERS IN PUBLIC. Forget that this is the biggest case in American history, you don't discuss particulars of an auto insurance settlement in the middle of a fucking public restaurant. This would get any lawyer in America suspended for a year if not disbarred.
5) Again, there are documents the White House is withholding, intentionally. Paging Mr. Mueller, subpoena on aisle "these people are morons".
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:49 PM on September 17, 2017 [27 favorites]

WHY ARE YOU DISCUSSING CLIENT MATTERS IN PUBLIC. Forget that this is the biggest case in American history, you don't discuss particulars of an auto insurance settlement in the middle of a fucking public restaurant. This would get any lawyer in America suspended for a year if not disbarred.

But if you don't talk about the case over dinner then how can you bill Trump for the meal as an expense?
posted by dis_integration at 8:14 PM on September 17, 2017 [17 favorites]

He's an evil golem made from sewn-together sacks of corgis and baby skunks. Drink Not the Koolaid.

These people have powerful ju-ju. They make inhuman seem human. They are especially powerful at using the isolating effect of media to project acceptable, even likeable images while staunchly supporting positions and ideas that, if naked in front of you, would have you reaching for the nearest blaster ray or emergency airlock purge lever..

The monster is not behind the rabbit It is the rabbit.
posted by Devonian at 8:17 PM on September 17, 2017 [6 favorites]

Twitter suggests another possibility, if an unethical lawyer wanted to leak something to the NYT about the most sensitive investigation in history, talking really loudly at a restaurant about it could maybe(?) be less unethical than simply disclosing it? But that picture really seems like it was as stupid as first reported, not a plot to help the country by betraying client confidence.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:21 PM on September 17, 2017 [3 favorites]

I took it to mean literally a physical safe, this is the fucking D-team, they don't seem capable of using Veracrypt. Although seeing McGahn try to hide behind encryption like he's a darknet drug dealer in face of Mueller subpoena would be pretty incredible, if maybe not an ideal precedent.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:27 PM on September 17, 2017 [2 favorites]

This menu from BLT Prime, the BLT resto located in the Trump hotel _{(surprisingly, not the one they were eating at, which is BLT steak just a block or so from the white house. Had they dined at BLT Prime in Trump hotel it could've been like some kind of ouroboros of corruption where you bill the client for dinner which the client pays back to himself),} this menu, I tell you, has, instead of a seafood category, a section titled OCEAN MEATS. Come to Trump International, dine at BLT Prime, home of OCEAN MEATS. Reality is just a markov chain algorithm now isn't it?
posted by dis_integration at 8:28 PM on September 17, 2017 [36 favorites]

I dunno, I feel that Spicer openly mocking his previous behaviours reinforces that this entire administration has been a joke, a farce, and completely outside of norms.

I think it completely undercuts any sort of critique of the trump administration, because it says, 'so long as you smile and play along, we'll rehabilitate you for playing at fascism.' Remember what Sean Spicer did, outside of the SNL jokes: he knowingly lied, he propagated trump's white supremacist agenda, and (most importantly) he did everything he could to silence the American press. Jenny Slate puts it as such, "If u think that Spicer should be allowed to participate in anything but an apology, you really dont understand anything&im bummed about you." When you support fascism, you should not be able to easily get back into the good graces of so-called liberal society just by winking a little bit, and allowing him to do so sends the message 'what you did isn't all that bad.'
posted by codacorolla at 8:28 PM on September 17, 2017 [58 favorites]

this menu, I tell you, has, instead of a seafood category, a section titled OCEAN MEATS.

Arby's should sue.
posted by rewil at 8:42 PM on September 17, 2017 [5 favorites]

Hey, remember when Sean Spicer told an Indian woman that she was lucky "we" allowed her "here?" And no, he wasn't talking about how lucky she was to be in a f*ing Apple Store.

She had a thousand times more bravery than any of the quislings who put together the Emmys.
posted by Yowser at 8:45 PM on September 17, 2017 [29 favorites]

Hey, remember when Sean Spicer told an Indian woman that she was lucky "we" allowed her "here?" And no, he wasn't talking about how lucky she was to be in a f*ing Apple Store.

This, exactly. It's easy to reduce Spicer to jokes, but his vileness isn't his incompetence - it's the policies and beliefs (whether he holds them sincerely or not) that he was willing to put his name behind.

Put another way, the only reason that Sean Spicer is able to go on the Emmies and goof it up with millionaires about his behavior is because he was bad at it. The next group (let's hope it's not this one, or maybe let's hope that there is no next) that comes along and improves on trumpism with competent media will not be a laughing matter, and I'm worried what this complacency in so-called liberal outlets means for their coming. Remember that the next wave of Republicans is the 4chan wave - people with demonstrated beliefs in open white supremacy, and a certain talent with shaping a message.
posted by codacorolla at 8:52 PM on September 17, 2017 [11 favorites]

How specific does a demand have to be, to justify a warrant? Is it enough to say "We have reason to believe relevant information is being concealed from the investigation in Mr McGahn's safe?"
posted by Coventry at 9:05 PM on September 17, 2017

John McCain on the Comey Hearing: "It Was a Colossal Screw-Up"

Just moments before McCain was due to take the microphone, Graham realized he had a question he wanted McCain to ask Comey. Graham, who was watching the hearing from his Senate office, instructed a staffer to deliver a message to McCain in the hearing room.
...
Though McCain might have reverted to the questions he’d prepared, he said he pressed on out of a sense of loyalty and respect to Graham. “I can’t tell you how important our relationship is, and I knew that this must be important. So I started out trying to remember what was on the app, and, anyway, to make a long story short, I fucked it up.”

posted by kirkaracha at 9:05 PM on September 17, 2017 [1 favorite]

But while McCain was reading the message from Graham—aides said that it was an email, not an app—the screen on the phone the staffer had handed him went black. Without a passcode, McCain couldn’t reopen it to keep reading.

John McCain calls emails "apps" and was helplessly fucking around with a phone moments before questioning Comey. Seems about right
posted by theodolite at 9:14 PM on September 17, 2017 [9 favorites]

Someone linked Zinke's draft report on the monument "review" to the Washington Post.
posted by azpenguin at 9:14 PM on September 17, 2017 [7 favorites]

I don't see what's wrong with calling it "ocean meat"

It's presumably pandering to a kind of idiot who worries that ordering "seafood" is not manly; that's probably a type they know well at Trumpaurants.
posted by thelonius at 9:16 PM on September 17, 2017 [1 favorite]

The description of the Zinke report wouldn't look out of place in the film Silent Running.
posted by Yowser at 9:20 PM on September 17, 2017

VIRGINIA HOUSE ELECTIONS - HD 46-50

intro
1-5
6-10
11-15
16-20
21-25
26-30
31-35
36-40
41-45

===

46th District
Currently Dem seat
R cand: none
D cand: Charniele Herring (incumbent)

DC suburbs (Alexandria), 51.7% white. Incumbent first elected in 2009 special. No R candidate in 2013, D won 67-28 in 2015. Clinton won district 78-18.

===

47th District
Currently Dem seat
R cand: none
D cand: Patrick Hope (incumbent)

DC suburbs (Arlington), 76.4% white. Incumbent first elected in 2009. No R candidate in 2013 or 2015. Clinton won district 77-17.

===

48th District
Currently Dem seat
R cand: none
D cand: R.C. Sullivan Jr. (incumbent)

DC suburbs (Arlington), 80.4% white. Incumbent first elected in 2014 special. No R candidate in 2013, D won 62-38 in 2014 special, no R candidate in 2015. Clinton won district 72-22.

===

49th District
Currently Dem seat
R cand: Adam Roosevelt
D cand: Alfonso Lopez (incumbent)

DC suburbs (Arlington), 80.4% white. Incumbent first elected in 2011. No R candidate in 2013 or 2015. Clinton won district 80-15.

===

50th District
Currently GOP seat
R cand: Jackson Miller (incumbent)
D cand: Lee Carter

DC suburbs (Manassas), 62.0% white. Incumbent first elected in 2006 special. R won 55-45 in 2013 and 59-41 in 2015. Clinton won district 54-40. Flippable Potential district.

===

Phew, half done! Next time: 51-55
posted by Chrysostom at 9:21 PM on September 17, 2017 [32 favorites]

Also, if it's super manly, I don't know why they're even giving the option about anything browner than "medium rare".

I got nothing on that.
posted by thelonius at 9:57 PM on September 17, 2017 [2 favorites]

"I spoke with President Moon of South Korea last night. Asked him how Rocket Man is doing. Long gas lines forming in North Korea. Too bad!"

William Shatner Performs 'Rocket Man' (1978)
posted by christopherious at 10:01 PM on September 17, 2017 [1 favorite]

Jim Wright of Stonekettle Station offers his caustic take on Trump's supporters: Ship of Fools

[…] these are the same drooling cross-eyed dipshits who think a billionaire New York real-estate developer who builds tacky casinos and swanky country clubs staffed by foreign workers, a Reality TV host whose shows are an hour-long fuck-fest of tits and ass and self-serving backstabbing narcissism portrayed by the personification of some backwoods West Virginia county fair demolition derby cheered on by drunken rednecks in cow shit spackled overalls, married to a string of vapid trophy wives, buoyed up incestuous nepotism, and surrounded by a scurrying host of toadies, sycophants, ass kissers, discredited fringe political hacks, cashiered generals, Wall Street crooks, war profiteers and foreign interests, a guy who has never shown the least charity or nobility or degree of compassion, a guy who daily craps in a golden toilet, yeah, that guy, is actually going to look out for their interests from his penthouse windows.

posted by Johnny Wallflower at 10:17 PM on September 17, 2017 [49 favorites]

Screw William Shatner. (SL A.V. Club)
posted by Lyme Drop at 10:17 PM on September 17, 2017 [9 favorites]

A photographer for the St. Louis Post Dispatch reports that "Police just chanted "Whose Streets, our streets" on Tucker Blvd after making arrests."
posted by zachlipton at 10:22 PM on September 17, 2017 [28 favorites]

That would literally be a police state then.
posted by Joe in Australia at 10:28 PM on September 17, 2017 [82 favorites]

This is fine.
posted by darkstar at 10:38 PM on September 17, 2017 [5 favorites]

Flames. Flames on the side of my face.
posted by rhizome at 11:00 PM on September 17, 2017 [13 favorites]

I don't think it's cool to invite Sean Spicer or anyone else from the regime to participate in the public sphere. Not even as a punchline. That humor is a solace for people who are hurt and endangered by this regime. I don't care if Spicer wants to show he's a "good sport."
posted by scaryblackdeath at 11:24 PM on September 17, 2017 [26 favorites]

Trump delenda est
posted by kirkaracha at 11:36 PM on September 17, 2017 [8 favorites]

Texas Tribune. Non-profit, just saw an impressive and huge series they did last year in conjunction with Pro Publica on Houston's hurricane vulnerability. For that matter, Pro Publica.
posted by kemrocken at 1:22 AM on September 18, 2017 [7 favorites]

A photographer for the St. Louis Post Dispatch reports that "Police just chanted "Whose Streets, our streets" on Tucker Blvd after making arrests."

No, goddammit, they're not. We pay your fucking salary. You work for us. They're OUR streets.
posted by greermahoney at 1:57 AM on September 18, 2017 [37 favorites]

Trump Menu: GARLICKY RED COAT PRAWNS 16

"Red coats?" Treason on the menu...
posted by mikelieman at 2:07 AM on September 18, 2017 [3 favorites]

> You work for us.

I'm afraid a significant chunk of the populace would think the "work" should include upholding white hegemony.
posted by runcifex at 2:23 AM on September 18, 2017 [3 favorites]

Does BLT not serve BLT's
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 2:29 AM on September 18, 2017 [5 favorites]

America needs therapy.
posted by saulgoodman at 3:41 AM on September 18, 2017 [11 favorites]

Lie down on the couch! What does that mean?
You're a nut! You're crazy in the coconut!
What does that mean? America needs therapy!
posted by Talez at 4:05 AM on September 18, 2017 [25 favorites]

America WTF: Nazis start #GastheSynagogue in reaction to St. Louis Jews Shielding Protestors from Police.
posted by Joe in Australia at 4:13 AM on September 18, 2017 [11 favorites]

Not gonna link the fucking Daily Caller, but...

Tucker: Trump Thinks TV More Accurately Reveals The Public’s Beliefs Than Polls Do

“I know that he watches a lot of television. I know because I’ve talked to him about it at length, that he’s really interested in television, both the mechanics of it — he knows a lot about ratings and lighting, and producing and guest booking,” Carlson said on “The Jamie Weinstein Show.”

Trump was the executive producer and star of the highly rated reality show “The Apprentice,” and has tweeted about cable news throughout his campaign and presidency. However, Trump claimed in a July tweet, “I have very little time for watching T.V.”

Carlson told Weinstein that Trump “believes that television is a pretty clear window into what people care about. He believes that television producers, especially of highly rated shows, understand what the public is interested in — what it fears, what it wants, what it loves. And so TV programming in some ways is a more accurate reflection of the public mood than polling,” Carlson said. “That’s his view, he said it to me. And that’s one of the reasons he watches a lot of television. Whether that’s true or not is an entirely debatable point, but he believes if you want to know where the country is, watch TV.”

And in 2018 news:

House Democrats Break Campaign Fundraising Record

The campaign arm of House Democrats has posted its highest off-year August fundraising haul ever, the group told NBC News. While their Republican counterparts haven't yet released their August results, the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee (DCCC) has outraised Republicans each of the three previous months — a result Democrats say bodes well for their prospects of winning the House in the 2018 midterm elections.

"With the House in play, another record-breaking month of fundraising for the DCCC is a clear sign that the grassroots energy behind House Democrats is constantly growing stronger," said Tyler Law, a spokesman for the committee. "Given Speaker [Paul] Ryan's failure to govern with unified Republican control of Washington, it's understandable that vulnerable House Republicans are opting for retirement while we are recruiting incredible candidates deep into the map." ...

The DCCC raised $6.26 million in August, compared to $4.15 million for August 2015, the last comparable year before a midterm election. Overall, the DCCC has raised $72.46 million in 2017. And the committee touted its online fundraising, which it says has totaled $31.26 million for the year so far, including $2.4 million last month.

posted by chris24 at 4:20 AM on September 18, 2017 [11 favorites]

Goddamnit, it really feels like we're sliding towards something bad here. Sorry to be so vague and alarmist, but I really don't like this trend towards normalization. See this year's Emmy's, causal Nazism, and maybe fifteen hundred other fucking things.
posted by angrycat at 4:34 AM on September 18, 2017 [30 favorites]

Man, if that's true about DCCC fundraising, maybe they could chill out with the constant ridiculously alarmist emails.
posted by rp at 4:37 AM on September 18, 2017 [13 favorites]

Tucker: Trump Thinks TV More Accurately Reveals The Public’s Beliefs Than Polls Do

Actually, if this is true, then this may be a GOOD thing when you consider the shows that the Emmys rewarded last night:

* A show about the evils of a fundamentalist dystopia won big.
* A show about the perils of domestic abuse also won big.
* The winning writers included three POCs and one LGBT person.
* An African-American man and a Pakistani man each also won awards.
* A guy whose biggest recent career smash consists of making fun of Trump was also rewarded.
* An hour-long show featuring a love story about a same-sex, biracial relationship where the leads will live happily forever after, LITERALLY, won for "best TV movie".
* A show that dissects the weeks' news and often skewers Trump and his campaign won "best variety or talk show."

....I think it IS right that Tv reflects the public's beliefs, actually. We are multicultural, we support love for all, we believe violence is bad and we think Trump is a jerkwad.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:57 AM on September 18, 2017 [23 favorites]

he means "Duck Dynasty" and Fox
posted by thelonius at 5:00 AM on September 18, 2017 [15 favorites]

Seconding Texas Tribune. It's Texas focused, obviously, but they've done some really great reporting around the border and immigration issues.
posted by threeturtles at 5:33 AM on September 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

Twitter suggests another possibility, if an unethical lawyer wanted to leak something to the NYT about the most sensitive investigation in history, talking really loudly at a restaurant about it could maybe(?) be less unethical than simply disclosing it?

Sure, maybe Ty Cobb could be spreading rumors by talking loudly about his client in D.C. steakhouses instead of leaking like a regular D.C. insider, but then again, this is the the top legal mind who got suckered into a lengthy and bizarre e-mail conversation by an Internet prankster.
posted by Doktor Zed at 5:36 AM on September 18, 2017 [9 favorites]

Man, if that's true about DCCC fundraising, maybe they could chill out with the constant ridiculously alarmist emails.

On the contrary, it's an indication that they're working. Even if not on you.
posted by Miko at 5:42 AM on September 18, 2017 [8 favorites]

If my son and his friends are any indication, the next generation isn't even going to know how to interact other than by trolling and making ambiguous statements that can be interpreted multiple ways and dismissed as just harmless sarcasm when it hurts anyone else's feelings. That's how kids are being socialized today. There's no off-switch to their "just kidding--or am I?"
posted by saulgoodman at 5:43 AM on September 18, 2017 [21 favorites]

Actually, if this is true, then this may be a GOOD thing when you consider the shows that the Emmys rewarded last night:

He's judging on ratings, not critical acclaim.
posted by jaduncan at 5:43 AM on September 18, 2017 [7 favorites]

If Toddler McShitsaton wants "wins" so badly, why don't we just point out all these handy items in a bulleted list for him (hat tip to peeedro):

27 federal political committees — including Trump’s reelection campaign — have flocked to his properties.
He's making money from trade groups representing e-cigarette makers and vape shop owners looking for domestic policy changes
he's making money from groups like an Israeli charity called The Truth About Israel - looking for foreign policy changes, who spend $600/ticket at Mar-a-Lago, which "...is so expensive...“I don’t think there’s going to be much left over.”

I mean, winners can't be choosers.
posted by yoga at 5:49 AM on September 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

Talez needs a link, because the song makes me happy and I hope it makes you happy, too.
posted by mfu at 5:55 AM on September 18, 2017 [3 favorites]

Spicer didn't just get a warm welcome on stage, all those Hollywood liberals were mugging for selfies and beers with him at the after party.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:05 AM on September 18, 2017 [12 favorites]

From up above about McCain at the Comey hearings, McCain says about Graham: “I can’t tell you how important our relationship is."

Keep this in mind when you wonder if McCain will vote no on the Graham-Cassidy bill that repeals the ACA. Don't rely on McCain to save us again. Call, fax, email and visit your senators.
posted by mcduff at 6:08 AM on September 18, 2017 [38 favorites]

Why would any of the Senators who voted yes on skinny repeal vote no on Graham-Cassidy? If McCain votes yes, it'll pass.
posted by Justinian at 6:22 AM on September 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

I mean, I guess Rand Paul could vote no but I feel like he said the same kind of shit about all the previous bills and ended up voting yes?
posted by Justinian at 6:26 AM on September 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

Is it just me, or has there been an uptick in tv shows which glorify the military recently? Even up here in Toronto I passed billboards for "The Brave" (IMDB: The complex world of our bravest military heroes who make personal sacrifices while executing the most challenging and dangerous missions behind enemy lines") and "Seal Team" ("The lives of the elite Navy SEALs as they train, plan and execute the most dangerous, high-stakes missions our country can ask") on my way to work this morning. And then there's the upcoming "The Wisdom of the Crowd," which sounds creepy as shit.
posted by The Card Cheat at 6:27 AM on September 18, 2017 [6 favorites]

Paul is only going to vote no if it already isn't going to pass. He has as much of a spine as any other member of his party.
posted by cmfletcher at 6:28 AM on September 18, 2017

the wisdom of the crowd makes me hoot with laughter because that precious little phrase will now forever be associated with a shitty police procedural starring jeremy piven; which, frankly, is a better fate than it deserves
posted by entropicamericana at 6:31 AM on September 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

> Spicer didn't just get a warm welcome on stage, all those Hollywood liberals were mugging for selfies and beers with him at the after party.

Wow, that's gross. Remember that the next time you see these people at one of their for-a-good-cause circle jerks.
posted by The Card Cheat at 6:35 AM on September 18, 2017 [4 favorites]

Been stuck in Hurricane Imra crap all week (fine, just power out and annoyed) but here:

Donald J. Trump
Sep 16 (2 days ago)
Reply
to [lyingpotus]@[customURL].com.

Images are not displayed. Display images below - Always display images from contact@action.gop.com

Friend,

It’s time to simplify the tax code. By doing so, we will boost consumer spending, encourage savings and investment, and maximize American economic growth.

So it’s important we get it done right.

That’s why, as a hardworking American, I’d like to know what you think.

Please take a moment to share your input on our country’s financial future by taking my Official Tax Reform Survey today.

SHARE YOUR INPUT

We’re getting to work on one of the country’s biggest issues, Friend, and I’d really appreciate your thoughts.

Together, we will…
Provide tax relief for middle-class Americans.
Simplify the code and reduce filing complications.
GROW THE AMERICAN ECONOMY!
So please, take just 5 minutes and fill out my Official Tax Reform Survey today.

Thank you,

Trump Signature Headshot
Donald J. Trump

SHARE YOUR INPUT

Paid for by the Republican National Committee
Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.
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You are receiving this email at [lyingpotus]@[customURL].com
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We believe this is an important way to reach our grassroots supporters with the most up-to-date information regarding the efforts of the Republican Party and President Trump, and we’re glad you’re on our team. It’s because of grassroots supporters like you that we will Make America Great Again, and we appreciate your support. Thank you for all that you do!

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posted by tilde at 6:42 AM on September 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

That’s why, as a hardworking American, I’d like to know what you think.

Clause order is important.
posted by winna at 6:45 AM on September 18, 2017 [27 favorites]

Questions:

Official Tax Reform Survey

In order to achieve the American Dream, Americans must be able to keep more money in their pockets and increase after-tax wages.

We must work to simplify the tax code by reducing the number of income brackets.

We must discourage corporate inversions in order to grow the American economy.

We must make America a globally competitive nation again.

Our plan must be fiscally responsible in order to not add to our already staggering debt.

We must eliminate the "death tax".

We must reduce or eliminate deductions and loopholes that only benefit the very rich.

Simplifying the tax code and cutting every American’s taxes will boost consumer spending while encouraging savings and investment.

We must cut the corporate tax rate and allow the United States to compete internationally.

Corporations must no longer be able to defer taxes on income earned abroad.

Our lower tax rates must also apply to small business, allowing entrepreneurs and freelancers to grow and prosper.

Our lower tax rates will provide a tremendous stimulus for the economy, significant GDP growth, and a huge number of new jobs.

Our tax code overhaul must return power to the states.

We must eliminate the marriage penalty and the Alternative Minimum Tax.

We must allow working parents to deduct childcare expenses for up to four children and elderly dependents.

We must reduce or eliminate the capital gains tax.

We must pass tax reform legislation in order to Make America Great Again!

It's Haterade all the way down.

(answer options:

Strongly Agree
Agree
Disagree
No Opinion
Other, please specify:)
posted by tilde at 6:48 AM on September 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

Re US TV and the current environment:

may be a GOOD thing when you consider the shows that the Emmys rewarded last night

Also:
* A gay woman won her 2nd consecutive Emmy for portraying HRC, Kellyanne & Jeff Sessions. (And there's a rumor she does an amazing tRump impression, plz lawd can we see it.)

*Her show won best variety, its head writers were a woman and a gay man.

But yes re: the glut of tRump-lovers police and military shows too. If you google, you'll find articles re the trend. (I just read a piece in a trade like Variety or THR.)
posted by NorthernLite at 6:49 AM on September 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

Our tax code overhaul must return power to the states.

This is, like, straight-up "Abolish the IRS and all federal taxation", isn't it.
posted by Etrigan at 6:50 AM on September 18, 2017 [9 favorites]

Wow tilde, that newsletter is pure heinous garbage. Hope you are ok in the aftermath or Irma.
posted by yoga at 7:04 AM on September 18, 2017 [3 favorites]

It’s time to simplify the tax code. [...], encourage savings and investment,

LOW TAXES DON'T ENCOURAGE INVESTMENT. High taxes increases investment because the government will take your money and give it to people who will actually spend it if you don't invest it.
posted by Talez at 7:19 AM on September 18, 2017 [19 favorites]

Well, there's a fine point to that:

High taxes on money sitting around encourage investment.

High taxes on money you earn encourage working off the books for cash (or the warm happy feeling of being an idiot for declaring everything and handing over 70% of your total income to the state - ask me how I know).
posted by Dr Dracator at 7:27 AM on September 18, 2017

Who watches the Emmys? Is there a boycott for next year? They've shown their real face with all this Spicer business, both on camera and backstage.

And who are the celebrities that took selfies with Spicer? Those photos from a third person are a smudgy mess.
posted by Yowser at 7:33 AM on September 18, 2017 [4 favorites]

I mean, low taxes can encourage investment but it's just one leg of an (at least) three legged stool. Without the stimulus spending and low interest rates to go with them, nothing happens.

Who experiences those lower rates are important too.

What in the hell the number of tax brackets has to do with any of that is anyone's guess. Here's mine: It sounds like an obviously intuitive good thing! Fewer tax brackets means simpler and simpler is better when it comes to taxes right?! That gives the GOP cover to lower the top marginal tax rates along with those higher tax brackets.

I've got an even better idea. No tax brackets at all! We just use an equation that, all else being equal, gets us line we want. We'd need someone with more math skills than I have to come up with the equation but you'd just plug your AGI into it and out would pop your tax burden.

All that tax brackets are is a simplification of that equation any way, just derive the equation from the current tax brackets and call it a day. Even if the equation is long and complicated, it'll take about five minutes for there to be a thousand websites that will calculate it for you.

This tax bracket talk is a dog-whistle for a tax cut on the 1%, is what I'm saying.
posted by VTX at 7:41 AM on September 18, 2017 [10 favorites]

Wisdom of the Crowds looks like a shameless ripoff of the main concept of Black Mirror, Season 3 Episode 6, but played as a positive instead of a horrible anthology series nightmare scenario.

I could be totally off on that. (I literally have it queued next but haven't had a chance to watch yet. An hour and a half, geeeez)
posted by Yowser at 7:43 AM on September 18, 2017

When I see the promos for Wisdom of the Crowd, all I can think of is when Reddit's Boston Bomber sleuths fingered a guy who'd committed suicide several days before the bombing.
posted by dirigibleman at 7:50 AM on September 18, 2017 [10 favorites]

Even if the equation is long and complicated, it'll take about five minutes for there to be a thousand websites that will calculate it for you.

Most people (i.e., those with an AGI less than $100K) use the tax table [pdf] to figure their tax liability if they're filing on paper, or it's calculated automatically in tax prep applications if they're filing it electronically.
posted by melissasaurus at 7:50 AM on September 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

Fuck. Even campus cops are getting in on things. This video shows some blatant misapplication of force, also known as, ya'know, fucking murder.
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:52 AM on September 18, 2017 [6 favorites]

I've got an even better idea. No tax brackets at all! We just use an equation that, all else being equal, gets us line we want. We'd need someone with more math skills than I have to come up with the equation but you'd just plug your AGI into it and out would pop your tax burden.

Here is the form of the equation you want (assuming logarithmic utility for dollars):

tax_owed = (income_dollars - poverty_floor) - ((income_dollars - poverty_floor) ^ (1 - rate))

If you plug in a floor of $10,000 -- meaning that you just don't tax the first $10,000 of anyone's income -- and you set the rate at 2%, then you come pretty close to duplicating the current federal tax rates ... except for the taxes on the top earners, which goes up considerably.
posted by Jonathan Livengood at 7:54 AM on September 18, 2017 [9 favorites]

VTX: Exactly, fewer tax brackets is code for flat tax. Racists aren't the only ones with dog whistles.
posted by Horkus at 7:54 AM on September 18, 2017 [4 favorites]

"Simplifying the tax code" is a total lie, since tax brackets are far and away the simplest thing about taxation by a country mile.
posted by Yowser at 8:07 AM on September 18, 2017 [22 favorites]

Wisdom of the Crowd

I wonder how much of every CBS techno-crime show's budget is dedicated to aluminum furniture, blue LEDs and tiered flooring.
posted by snuffleupagus at 8:09 AM on September 18, 2017 [6 favorites]

The other infuriating thing about Spicer showing up at the Emmys is how Colbert will inevitably treat the anger like that's a joke, too.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 8:11 AM on September 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

That Georgia Tech video is awful, because it shows how utterly incompetent police whose first instinct is to draw their guns are at de-escalating and/or neutralizing people.

(Also, what asshole called the cops? Fuck them)
posted by Yowser at 8:12 AM on September 18, 2017 [5 favorites]

Fuck. Even campus cops are getting in on things. This video shows some blatant misapplication of force, also known as, ya'know, fucking murder.

From the link:

“For members of the community who knew Scout personally, the shock and grief are particularly acute.” the university’s dean of students, John Stein, wrote in a statement obtained by NBC News.

No shit, Stein.
posted by snuffleupagus at 8:12 AM on September 18, 2017 [4 favorites]

angrycat Goddamnit, it really feels like we're sliding towards something bad here. Sorry to be so vague and alarmist, but I really don't like this trend towards normalization.

You aren't alarmist, and you're only vague because you're conditioned by society not to use the right words for what you fear:

Fascism.

Despotism.

Authoritarianism.

That's what we're sliding towards. And once started it's hard to stop. And not "we" as in the USA, but "we" as in the entire free world.

For most of history the only governments that existed were despotisms with strong doses of authoritarianism to back them up. Only very recently have we clawed our way out of that pattern in a small handful of wealthy nations. Across most of the planet governments are still mostly despotic and authoritarian.

And many of the places that were once free are swinging away from freedom. It's a planetwide pattern. The more despotic and authoritarian governments are getting even worse, and the places that are free have surges in Fascism and other moves towards authoritarianism and despotism.

We've been trained not to say the word "Fascist" in the USA, just as we've been trained not to say "white supremacist" or "racist. But it's time to dust off those words because they're accurate.

Trump is a giant step towards an authoritarian, nationalist, despotism. Or, in a single word: Fascism. Since this is the USA his form of Fascism involves white supremacy as one of its core tenants, and Christian supremacy as another.

There's no alarmism involved. We're in a bad place and turning things around before they get to the stage where violence is unavoidable is going to be hard, thankless, work.
posted by sotonohito at 8:22 AM on September 18, 2017 [100 favorites]

After the Cobb debacle are we taking bets on how long it will be till Cobb gets fired? I'll take the safe wager that Cobb is out on Friday.
posted by Twain Device at 8:49 AM on September 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

This menu from BLT Prime, the BLT resto located in the Trump hotel

This took place at BLT Steak, not BLT Prime. I'm pointing this out because BLT Steak is on I street, which is literally next door to the New York Times and "Trump lawyers arguing at Trump restaurant overheard by New York Times reporter" is a different narrative than "Trump lawyers argue at restaurant located next to the New York Times."
posted by Room 641-A at 8:55 AM on September 18, 2017 [9 favorites]

My gut on Graham Cassidy is that it's kabuki designed to mollify the base, and that there will be exactly 3 no votes in the end. Because ripping Healthcare from tens of millions is the quickest way to speaker Pelosi, President Sanders and single payer. But my gut has been wrong literally every other time since trump took his escalator ride to hell, so who the fuck knows.
posted by Glibpaxman at 9:02 AM on September 18, 2017 [9 favorites]

Well McCain says he may "reluctantly" vote yes this time, of course betraying his call for regular order, because he's John fucking McCain, so where's the third no? And no, it's not Rand Paul. Rand Paul is a liar, he's posturing this time just like last time for attention. He will not be the last vote to allow Obamacare to live.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:08 AM on September 18, 2017 [9 favorites]

The Republicans act like they don't plan on ever having elections again, so I doubt electability is on their minds.
posted by Yowser at 9:08 AM on September 18, 2017 [15 favorites]

Kabuki is a form of performance art. Let's just call lies lies, and bullshit bullshit.
posted by runcifex at 9:10 AM on September 18, 2017 [15 favorites]

I think it'd be best if we used kayfabe to refer to ritualistic performances by politicians that have no actual function but make the pretense of being part of actually governing. Kayfabe is the term used by professional wrestling back in the 1980's and 1990's when they were trying to pretend that it was real rather than a staged performance. It referred to an elaborate structure of lies and acting used to maintain the (transparent) pretense that pro-wrestling involved actual fights between actual rivals rather than actors engaging in proto-reality TV.

There's no need to engage in cultural appropriation and misuse the term kabuki when we have a perfect word already.

Call it what it is: kayfabe.
posted by sotonohito at 9:14 AM on September 18, 2017 [36 favorites]

I'm pessimistic: I think they'll repeal the ACA because they know that going into the 2018 elections without having done so will hurt them more than being known as the evil scum who stole everyone's healthcare will. Especially if they can vote on a bill that repeals it, but only years down the road so they can claim the victory without having to pay any price.

McCain is dying and cares only about one thing: getting all the immediate attention, TV time, and adulation he can. He doesn't care about his reputation, or legacy, or even anything happening a year or two down the road. He'll vote to repeal because it'll make him feel special and get him lots of attention.

I've been wrong in my political predictions more often than I've been right, but I don't think they can afford to let the ACA survive.

And, of course, once they kill the ACA they can use the money they've "saved" to pay for a tax cut for the upper 0.1%!
posted by sotonohito at 9:24 AM on September 18, 2017 [3 favorites]

So ... this is, once again, a hair-on-fire emergency situation for Medicaid?

I'm so exhausted. I guess they're counting on that.
posted by RedOrGreen at 9:27 AM on September 18, 2017 [23 favorites]

Call it what it is: kayfabe.

"Pantomime" also works, for the "going through dramatically overblown motions set to music" sense that people like to abuse "kabuki" for. And could pull in interesting historical aspects from various European contexts that might actually have some innate relevance.

"Kayfabe" points up the absurdist role-playing aspect but I think it might give too much credit for reflexive awareness to the politicians, managers and other sundry talking heads involved. Politicans don't intentionally execute heel-turns (except in their opponent's messaging).

Plus seeing politics in that Barthesian/Baudrillard mode makes it easy to excuse oneself from participating entirely, as part of rejecting mass culture or whatever, which doesn't help.
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:28 AM on September 18, 2017 [4 favorites]

Sorry if this has been posted recently - is there a one stop shop kind of site that I can post to FB to advertise to friends in red states the necessity of calling?
posted by codacorolla at 9:28 AM on September 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

When is the next health care related vote likely to be?
posted by Coventry at 9:29 AM on September 18, 2017

Here's another situation where we could use a functioning State Department. I can imagine that the Mandarin Mussolini will handle this powder keg with quiet dignity and grace.
posted by Ber at 9:32 AM on September 18, 2017

Trump is a giant step towards an authoritarian, nationalist, despotism. Or, in a single word: Fascism. Since this is the USA his form of Fascism involves white supremacy as one of its core tenants, and Christian supremacy as another.

There's no alarmism involved. We're in a bad place and turning things around before they get to the stage where violence is unavoidable is going to be hard, thankless, work.

Just finished my fall splurge, reading a brand new historical romance when it came out ... and it really hammers home how effed up all this shit is, and how it's the same old shit in a new century. Firebombing and killing people who don't believe what you believe in. It focused on the time after Henry VIII's death and the reign of his daughters and grand nephew(?) and it's the same shit we're doing right now. I'd read the book as an escape from the insanity of "us vs them" but it was just more of the damn same. Good read but not quite the escapism I was looking for. (And he's starting to write his women a bit better ...)
posted by tilde at 9:34 AM on September 18, 2017 [4 favorites]

Potemkin Presidency
posted by kirkaracha at 9:34 AM on September 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

Sincerely hoping this hasn't already been posted, but it's Suzanne Moore in the Graun re Spicer (and of course Boris Johnson) and nauseating sleb adoration. Always worth a read IMO
posted by Myeral at 9:46 AM on September 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

When is the next health care related vote likely to be?

Don't think anything is scheduled yet, but it has to be in the next couple of weeks. Reconciliation expires on September 30.
posted by Surely This at 9:47 AM on September 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

I'm betting they keep everything top secret and quiet so as to spring a vote on the 29th.
posted by sotonohito at 9:48 AM on September 18, 2017 [4 favorites]

There's a sham hearing scheduled for Sept. 25 (before the Homeland Security and Government Affairs committee, which doesn't even have jurisdiction over a healthcare bill) so it'll be sometime after that and before the expiration of reconciliation authority on Sept. 30.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:49 AM on September 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

Coventry: The vote to repeal ACA must be done in the Senate by the end of September. What I've read suggests that it will be toward the end of next week.
posted by mcduff at 9:55 AM on September 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

is there a one stop shop kind of site that I can post to FB to advertise to friends in red states the necessity of calling?

Indivisible has a short explainer and simple call script.

Cory Booker has a bulleted list of the bad things about the billas a Facebook-sharable image but he also has this more meme-tastic version with less information, more call to action.

Vox has an article length-explainer.

You can judge your own Facebook audience as to which would be most effective...
posted by OnceUponATime at 10:01 AM on September 18, 2017 [34 favorites]

Fuck those people and their "no healthcare for anybody bill." I just called both my senators and that's what I called it when I told them they needed to stop it.

(Well, I told the nice ladies on their staff who answered the local phones, anyway. After I thanked them for all their hard work lately. But both seemed still friendly, so.)
posted by wenestvedt at 10:04 AM on September 18, 2017

How about they find a new, less-problematic face for generic issue-publicity than Cory Booker?
posted by rhizome at 10:06 AM on September 18, 2017

Heather Landy/Quartz: Roger Ailes’ legacy was perfectly commemorated at the 2017 Emmy awards.

His name was shown, but apparently accompanied by silence. No boos, no cheers, just nothing.
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:08 AM on September 18, 2017 [3 favorites]

That means he still has power.
posted by rhizome at 10:09 AM on September 18, 2017 [3 favorites]

That means he still has power.

Ailes has achieved Demilich status and will continue to destroy the world as a skull in a dusty jar.
posted by Rust Moranis at 10:13 AM on September 18, 2017 [7 favorites]

Ailes has achieved Demilich status and will continue to destroy the world as a skull in a dusty jar.

Black Mirror meets Futurama
posted by Servo5678 at 10:16 AM on September 18, 2017 [3 favorites]

Bill Cassidy, the Former Moderate Leading the Last Gasp to Repeal Obamacare
There is no generally circulating theory to explain Cassidy’s reversal. Behavior that can be adequately explained by ignorance usually does not require venality. Few politicians are public policy experts. Cassidy used to believe there was no magic way around the problem of financing health care for people who can’t afford it, a finding that inconveniently put him at odds with his party’s long-standing promises. Now he has probably found a right-wing health care “expert” who has “explained” to him that such a solution actually exists, if you simply transform concepts like state flexibility and innovation into a magic elixir. Whatever the explanation, the brief moral awakening of Bill Cassidy has come to a screeching halt.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:42 AM on September 18, 2017 [5 favorites]

Now he has probably found a right-wing health care “expert” who has “explained” to him that such a solution actually exists

i would the explanation came accompanied with a (surprisingly small, considering the human cost that will result) amount of $$$
posted by entropicamericana at 10:46 AM on September 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

if you simply transform concepts like state flexibility and innovation into a magic elixir

Also known as Strupo.
posted by darkstar at 10:47 AM on September 18, 2017

Doug Ducey, the governor in AZ, just came out in favor of Graham-Cassidy. So, McCain and Flake are probably lost causes.
posted by Weeping_angel at 10:51 AM on September 18, 2017 [13 favorites]

How the hell is this happening?
posted by schadenfrau at 10:55 AM on September 18, 2017 [9 favorites]

Fuck.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 10:57 AM on September 18, 2017

All my reps are blue. I don't even know what to ask for when I call except "please shut down the Senate."
posted by schadenfrau at 10:59 AM on September 18, 2017 [31 favorites]

Regarding the uptick in the particular brand of out-and-proud racism we've been enjoying since November: I just started Ibrahim Kendi's Stamped from the Beginning: The Definitive History of Racist Ideas in America.

I'm still at the colonial era part of the book, but Kendi's main thesis is that historically, racist policies and institutions in the United States are more often the cause of racial bigotry, not the effect. That is, when governments and societies formally make space for (or, worse, codify) racist ideas, citizens rise to (sink to?) the occasion by adopting more racist attitudes than they otherwise would.

I need to read more to see why my current assumption—that racial prejudice is a tribal, psychological feedback loop kind of phenomenon, and speculating about its causes is essentially a chicken-or-egg exercise,—is not shared by Kendi, but picking up this book has really got me thinking about the colossal damage at the everyday, individual level that Trump's policies and pandering are making space for. Shit is scary.
posted by Rykey at 11:02 AM on September 18, 2017 [13 favorites]

@schadenfrau Likewise. And that's exactly what I do.
posted by Emmy Rae at 11:04 AM on September 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

Late to the party, but another good western-based news source is Reveal, the rechristened online and broadcast arm of the Center for Investigative Reporting. I think it's the oldest non-profit news organization in the country. It's now national but has a long history of California-centered pieces, and just this week delivered this long take on how Trump cronies are wrecking the American dream of homeownership.
Disclosure, a couple of friends are editors there.
posted by martin q blank at 11:04 AM on September 18, 2017 [10 favorites]

All my reps are blue. I don't even know what to ask for when I call except "please shut down the Senate."

I'm in the same boat. Maybe I should suggest that, if Graham-Cassidy comes to a vote, Sen. Van Hollen could sneak out into the hallway and pull the fire alarm.
posted by Faint of Butt at 11:04 AM on September 18, 2017 [14 favorites]

All my reps are blue. I don't even know what to ask for when I call except "please shut down the Senate."

I've been saying "Please use any procedural measures you can think of to prevent it from coming to a vote."
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:05 AM on September 18, 2017 [21 favorites]

Blue state people: please consider contacting friends and family with GOP senators and educate them about this threat to our healthcare. I've found my friends have been very thankful for scripts and phone numbers. Make it easy for people to speak up.
posted by mcduff at 11:06 AM on September 18, 2017 [9 favorites]

Pepe the Frog’s Creator Goes Legally Nuclear Against the Alt-Right
The artist's lawyers have taken legal action against the alt-right. They have served cease and desist orders to several alt-right personalities and websites including Richard Spencer, Mike Cernovich, and the r/the_Donald subreddit. In addition, they have issued Digital Millennium Copyright Act takedown requests to Reddit, Amazon, YouTube, and Twitter, notifying them that use of Pepe by the alt-right on their platforms is copyright infringement. The message is to the alt-right is clear—stop using Pepe the Frog or prepare for legal consequences.
posted by jocelmeow at 11:07 AM on September 18, 2017 [68 favorites]

ALSO, what the fuck are these people being promised that they're flipping on something that's even more unpopular than the last thing? What the fuck is happening?
posted by schadenfrau at 11:09 AM on September 18, 2017 [31 favorites]

They have probably been promised some shiny trinket or other as well as not being crucified in the right wing media/cut off from RNC funds.
posted by jaduncan at 11:10 AM on September 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

schadenfrau:

"ALSO, what the fuck are these people being promised that they're flipping on something that's even more unpopular than the last thing? What the fuck is happening?"

Sudden fear of a universal health care planet?
posted by charred husk at 11:10 AM on September 18, 2017 [6 favorites]

what the fuck are these people being promised that they're flipping on something that's even more unpopular than the last thing?

Loss of funding, and being targeted by a Koch-funded opponent in their next primary, if they don't toe the line.
posted by Coventry at 11:12 AM on September 18, 2017 [4 favorites]

ALSO, what the fuck are these people being promised that they're flipping on something that's even more unpopular than the last thing? What the fuck is happening?

Assorted possibilities:

1) The Senate is a virtual lock to stay Republican in 2018, so they figure whatever electoral consequences they suffer for this will be minor.
2) They're more afraid of primary challengers who threaten their own personal power than of the GOP as a whole taking a beating.
3) They don't plan on free and fair elections in 2018, even beyond the gerrymandering issue for the House (voting rights crackdowns, etc).
4) They really want to kill people, and are willing to pay a price for it.

The longer this goes on, the more I start to believe #4. If they weren't rich/privileged enough to run for Congress, I wonder how many of these assholes would be the subjects of true-crime stories.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 11:13 AM on September 18, 2017 [16 favorites]

Millions of Americans will lose insurance, and of those, a significant number will die. I've let my solidly-blue-state representatives know that if this legislation passes while they are physically present, i.e. because they have not been bodily dragged from the chamber for trying everything in their power to prevent this from happening, I will consider their efforts insufficient.
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 11:13 AM on September 18, 2017 [23 favorites]

If they pass a healthcare repeal prepare yourself for all the think pieces claiming Trump is a genius for cozying up to Chuck and Nancy to spur action out of the republicans in congress.
posted by peeedro at 11:15 AM on September 18, 2017 [10 favorites]

Giving power to the States is the opposite of what's needed. Georgia is going to kill my brother by restricting Medicaid; they are halfway there already. We need the Federal government to protect us from the mediocre ideologues, who have no business deciding anything outside their car dealership or small town law practice, that make up most state governments.
posted by thelonius at 11:15 AM on September 18, 2017 [34 favorites]

Collins is likely to remain a no on this latest Graham-Cassidy repeal effort.

My hot take is that she's waiting for the latest CBO score to officially announce opposition and continue to press for any legislation to go through the regular congressional committee process in order to further her gubernatorial ambitions here in Maine for 2018.
posted by OntologicalPuppy at 11:19 AM on September 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

I got through to Chuck's office.

"We'll add you to the list."

I mean...ok? But how about a plan?
posted by schadenfrau at 11:22 AM on September 18, 2017 [4 favorites]

I am listening to the audiobook of Trevor Noah's autobiography, "Born a Crime," about growing up in South Africa as Apartheid was being dismantled. He says -- which I had never heard before -- that the architects of Apartheid deliberately built a whole interlocking set of policies, and that they studied regimes around the world to make it as fundamental and pervasive and persistent as possible.

Then he talked about what it had in common with (and, to be fair, what made it different from) America's racial tensions and bigotry.

*sigh* I hate People.

(Awesome book, by the way.)
posted by wenestvedt at 11:23 AM on September 18, 2017 [20 favorites]

The Republican Party is truly, truly evil.
posted by schadenfrau at 11:26 AM on September 18, 2017 [5 favorites]

What gave it away?
posted by petebest at 11:29 AM on September 18, 2017 [6 favorites]

I'm so exhausted. I guess they're counting on that.

The HELL you are. You're OUTRAGED and PERSISTENT and TIRELESS, and they'd goddamned well better get used to counting on THAT.
posted by perspicio at 11:37 AM on September 18, 2017 [63 favorites]

The Republican Party is truly, truly evil.

Imagine how the noble and innocent elephant feels.
posted by Lyme Drop at 11:39 AM on September 18, 2017 [4 favorites]

Roy Moore, Alabama Senate candidate, says he laments racial divisions "between reds and yellows."
posted by waitingtoderail at 11:40 AM on September 18, 2017 [7 favorites]

Your next Senator from Alabama.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:45 AM on September 18, 2017 [4 favorites]

what are the rules governing when and where the senate can hold a vote? A little while back some friends/comrades here in Oakland successfully stopped the city council from giving away a parcel of public land to a developer connected to the council's president by simply blocking all of the spaces that city law had designated as valid spaces for city council meetings; i.e. the council chamber itself, and also the two meeting rooms designated as alternate chambers. Blocking the vote won time for a legal challenge, which in turn stopped the giveaway.

If moral senators (or fearless ordinary people) seized and occupied the senate floor on the 29th and 30th, would that prevent a vote, and thereby prevent ACA repeal under reconciliation rules?
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 11:46 AM on September 18, 2017 [4 favorites]

Roy Moore, Alabama Senate candidate, says he laments racial divisions "between reds and yellows."

He's currently a lock for the Senate for Alabama. Greatest deliberative body in the world my fucking ass.
posted by Talez at 11:46 AM on September 18, 2017 [10 favorites]

Spicer didn't just get a warm welcome on stage, all those Hollywood liberals were mugging for selfies and beers with him at the after party.

I hate being prescient:

There's some chance, after all of this is over, that we'll look back fondly at the hapless hilarious stylings of Baghdad Sean. He'll be on chat shows making jokes about the crazy Trump and his loony underlings. And everyone will laugh.

I want to encourage you all, if this starts to happen, to push back hard on that bullshit.

Spicey may be incompetent, he may be entertaining, but he's also complicit.

Any association with this administration, other than aiding the ongoing investigations, should be a Scarlet fucking Letter for EVER. Even Spicey.
posted by leotrotsky at 11:50 AM on September 18, 2017 [56 favorites]

Not to defend such a . . . man? But he's probably subconsciously referencing

Jesus Loves the Little Children

Jesus loves the little children
All the children of the world
Red, brown, yellow
Black and white
They are precious in His sight.
Jesus loves the little children
Of the world.

Fun Fact: Sung to the 1864 Civil War tune "Tramp! Tramp! Tramp!" by George Fredrick Root

Surprise twist: was written to give hope to Union prisoners of war
posted by petebest at 11:51 AM on September 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

I live in Texas, and both of my Senators are locked in votes yay. IIRC both are co-sponsors of the legislation. I called anyway, but it was a futile gesture.

I do wonder about the Senators from less locked in Republican states.

In addition to the list provided by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish, I think there's another possibility:

They know 2018 is a virtual lock for Senate Republicans, and expect that by 2020 the voters will be distracted by some new shiny object so they don't think it'll have real electoral consequences.

But I'm increasingly worried that maybe they really are counting on 2016 being the last free and fair election. Gerrymandering is here to stay. Now that Trump put Gorsuch on the Court the vote is now a flat out guaranteed 5-4 in favor of gerrymandering.

In the House that means the Democrats have no real chance at a majority. IIRC on 538 they projected that in 2018 the Democrats would get around 54% of the votes cast, but only 47% of the House seats.

Pass state laws that divide Electoral College votes by congressional district and the same gerrymandering that virtually guarantees a Republican House now virtually guarantees a Republican Presidency. They've been working on that for a while now. If it had been in place in 2012 Romney would have gotten 273 Electoral Votes and been appointed president despite Obama's near landslide number of votes.

After that it's just a matter of repealing the 17th Amendment and that's the Senate locked in as eternally Republican too.

Their end goal is a one party nation.

I don't think I'm being paranoid to suspect that part of the reason so many Republicans are so comfortable voting blatantly to kill their constituents is that they really do think they're on the verge of making elections an empty show.

Plus, with the Supreme Court now firmly in their grasp for the next 30 years, I think a lot of the more strategically minded Republicans are seeing this as a good opportunity to ride Trump to some long sought after but politically toxic goals, let Trump absorb a lot of the fallout from that, and they figure that even if it costs them the Legislative and Executive branch for a 4 or even 8 years that's fine. They've got the Court to keep things going their way, they can afford 4 or 8 years of a Democratic controlled Legislative and Executive to clean up the mess they've made of the economy while they engage in maximal obstructionism and bide their time for their next strike.

The Republicans have always been good at tactical loss and strategic victory. They repeal the ACA, gut Medicare, rip Social Security apart, do irreparable damage to the EPA, the DOE, and other hated government agencies, rip up treaties, and generally a) achieve long sought after goals, while b) making a big enough mess that even 8 years of steady Democratic control of the Legislative and Executive will be distracted cleaning it up they won't have time to undo all the harm (and the Court will block most real reforms anyway).

If you've got an unpopular stinker of a President what do you do? You do **EVERYTHING YOU POSSIBLY CAN**, not "including" but "especially" the massively unpopular stuff. And you set him up to take the blame for every scrap of it. The Republican planners probably don't especially like Trump's horrible numbers and godawful ruining of America's reputation, but from a twisty point of view you can turn those into resources the Republican party can exploit.

If Trump is already awful and hated, then load him down with the blame for every single awful and hated Republican plan, then let him crash and burn. A scapegoat is a very useful thing to have.

Plus, I still think that the Money Republicans intend to use Trump as an object lesson to wrest back control of the Party from the Ideology Republicans. They'd probably originally hoped he'd lose the election, then they could say "Yeah, you morons thought Trump was a winner, now STFU and let us drive before you ruin everything". He won, but if his popularity stays in the crapper and he loses in 2020 that same message will work, maybe even better than if he'd lost to Clinton in 2016.
posted by sotonohito at 11:54 AM on September 18, 2017 [41 favorites]

David Roberts (Dr. Vox): 1. During the GW Bush admin, I used to frequently think, "well, at least this will discredit the modern GOP for a generation." 2. "There's no way the American people will soon forget or forgive this utter omnishambles. We had to experience it to really understand." 3. I was wildly naive & optimistic about that. The Bush disaster was flushed down the memory hole *almost immediately*. 4. Eight f'ing years of grinding mendacity, venality, cruelty, corruption, failure, incompetence, delusion -- just vanished w/out a trace. 5. With the "Tea Party," US political & media elites agreed that the right got a do-over. "Hey, we re-discovered our principles!" "Oh, OK." 6. The towering mountain of Bush-era failure was never held against the right. Their critiques of Obama were accepted at face value. 7. They were allowed to pretend that they care about legislative procedure, or the deficit, or transparency, or dignity in office. 8. They were allowed to pretend, even though the previous 8 years had demonstrated w/ painful clarity that those principles were HOLLOW. 9. Now here they are, back in power. Corruption is back. Transparency & dignity are long gone. No one cares about the deficit (except Dems). 10. Every single principle that allegedly fueled the right's opposition to Obama has been exposed as purely instrumental, a convenient tool. 11. The pivot from principle to utter instrumentalism & corruption was dizzyingly fast & complete this time. Like f'ing performance art. 12. So this time, we'll remember, right? Now that they have *repeated the lesson* in the ugliest, most brutal way possible ... 13. ... we'll remember what the modern GOP truly is, the face it shows in power. No way they'll be allowed to get away this time, right? 14. Ha ha. Witness Spicer at the Emmys. The forgiveness & rehabilitation of these empty-souled liars has already begun. 15. The drive to normalize is structural & deep in DC. It's just what happens, unless there's active resistance. 16. Trump himself will be cast out, of course. He's so gauche. But the men in suits who surrounded & enabled him? They'll skate. Easy. 17. If you're thinking, "this is SO bad, SO obviously evil, that the normal rules will be suspended & there will be consequences" ... 18. ... well, enjoy being young. All of DC is a machine designed to wash the shit off men in suits. It'll wash this off too. 19. And in the 2024 election, Rs will rediscover their principles & resume preaching about the deficit, dignity, & proper procedure ... 20. And the media will take them seriously. That's just how this works.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:57 AM on September 18, 2017 [68 favorites]

All of DC is a machine designed to wash the shit off men in suits.

Wow! That's concise.
posted by thelonius at 12:02 PM on September 18, 2017 [60 favorites]

If moral senators (or fearless ordinary people) seized and occupied the senate floor on the 29th and 30th, would that prevent a vote, and thereby prevent ACA repeal under reconciliation rules?

McConnell would almost certainly have the Capitol police physically remove anyone preventing the body from meeting. Even, I think, another Senator.

The classic technique is to prevent a quorum, which could be done if every democrat and independent refused to show up along with 3 republicans. They go have a party somewhere secret and then a quorum cannot be called and they cannot vote.
posted by dis_integration at 12:02 PM on September 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

Although the quorum rules will depend on the parliamentarian, since the way it's written, someone has to "suggest" the absence of a quorum in order for there to be a rollcall. So I guess maybe you can just move forward so long as nobody suggests the absence of a quorum? I dunno. This happens in state houses from time to time, and it's always a blast, what with the majority leader or equivalent sending State Police out across the land to retrieve the missing Senators and force them to vote.
posted by dis_integration at 12:04 PM on September 18, 2017

But if they had 3 Republicans to help, they'd be able to just vote down the bill.
posted by sotonohito at 12:04 PM on September 18, 2017 [10 favorites]

The classic technique is to prevent a quorum, which could be done if every democrat and independent refused to show up along with 3 republicans.

If they had those numbers, couldn't they all just vote no? Dammit.

Maybe someone can put a lone woman in Mike Pence's path on his way to the tiebreaking vote, an obstacle which he will be unable to move past.
posted by Emmy Rae at 12:05 PM on September 18, 2017 [26 favorites]

If you could get three Republicans to agree to go AWOL, you wouldn't need theatrics and subterfuge because the vote would already fail. It's not like the three could say "I had a dental appointment" or "Goodness, was the vote TODAY?" to explain their absence; they are either on the side of homo sapiens or they are not.
posted by delfin at 12:06 PM on September 18, 2017 [4 favorites]

> Spicer didn't just get a warm welcome on stage, all those Hollywood liberals were mugging for selfies and beers with him at the after party.

The Sean Spicer Joke Should’ve Ended on the Emmy Stage. The Problem Is, It Didn’t.
posted by homunculus at 12:14 PM on September 18, 2017 [7 favorites]

As a matter of fact, he is still with us. Remember?

"Let me give you a word of the philosophy of reform. The whole history of the progress of human liberty shows that all concessions yet made to her august claims, have been born of earnest struggle. The conflict has been exciting, agitating, all-absorbing, and for the time being, putting all other tumults to silence. It must do this or it does nothing. If there is no struggle there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom and yet depreciate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightening. They want the ocean without the awful roar of its many waters."

"This struggle may be a moral one, or it may be a physical one, and it may be both moral and physical, but it must be a struggle. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will. Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them, and these will continue till they are resisted with either words or blows, or with both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress. In the light of these ideas, Negroes will be hunted at the North, and held and flogged at the South so long as they submit to those devilish outrages, and make no resistance, either moral or physical. Men may not get all they pay for in this world; but they must certainly pay for all they get. If we ever get free from the oppressions and wrongs heaped upon us, we must pay for their removal. We must do this by labor, by suffering, by sacrifice, and if needs be, by our lives and the lives of others."

- Frederick Douglass

We must not, will not, and, indeed, cannot stop. Injustice done to us is the very fuel that drives us, and the greater the injustice, the greater our efforts.

Let them be rigid, brittle, and afflicted with white fragility. We are resilient, robust, antifragile, and on the side of righteousness itself.

I ain't tired. I'm just getting started.
posted by perspicio at 12:18 PM on September 18, 2017 [48 favorites]

Collins is likely to remain a no on this latest Graham-Cassidy repeal effort.

Which is relatively meaningless if the whip count shows the bill will pass regardless of her vote.

McCain is the key, here, and with Ducey's support for the bill, McCain has the coverage he needs to vote to pass.

That leads to a tie, which our favorite gurning golem will be happy to break in favor of kicking people off of health care and freeing up budget funds to let them give corporations and rich people another tax cut.
posted by darkstar at 12:25 PM on September 18, 2017 [5 favorites]

The Sean Spicer joke should have ended with Colbert turning to him in complete seriousness and saying "you took a salary from the American people and used it to tell them lies. Get off my stage."

Anyway, CBO says they'll have a "preliminary assessment" of Graham-Cassidy by early next week, but "CBO will not be able to provide point estimates of effects on deficit, health insurance coverage, or premiums for at least several weeks." It's a particularly hard bill to score because so much of the impacts will depends on what states do in response. In other words, they could easily be voting on this without a full score, as in no big number that says how many people will lose coverage.
posted by zachlipton at 12:27 PM on September 18, 2017 [29 favorites]

Two things which seem like cause for hope: first, doesn't there need to be a Byrd bath? How's a huge, unwieldy mess of a bill going to go from a committee hearing to law in a week? Aren't there mandated parliamentary discussion periods that can run the clock down?

And, second, any hope Heller will break? The party has not relented in their willingness to shit on him even after he voted their way last time around; he seems like a good candidate to step out rather than continuing to carry water for them. Capito seemed pretty soft in support last time around too. Looks like there are plenty of question marks still there inside of their caucus.
posted by jackbishop at 12:32 PM on September 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

Heller is a co-sponsor, so no.
posted by Chrysostom at 12:34 PM on September 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

Some good news!

Rhode Island's Governor and the Rhode Island Foundation raised $170,000 from donors to cover the renewal fees for every DREAMer in the state who needs to renew their DACA status by October 5th.

Does this sound like a good idea? Wish your state was as proactive? You can donate to the DACA Renewal Fund, run by United We Dream. Many local immigration organizations are running funds too, if you prefer to donate locally.
posted by zachlipton at 12:35 PM on September 18, 2017 [53 favorites]

> First, doesn't there need to be a Byrd bath? How's a huge, unwieldy mess of a bill going to go from a committee hearing to law in a week? Aren't there mandated parliamentary discussion periods that can run the clock down?

Have you seen how Republicans are running the Senate? Rules, norms - turns out these things don't matter much after all.

And, second, any hope Heller will break?

You're kidding, right? He's a Republican senator in danger of a primary challenge from the right.

Off to - once again - call Tom Reed (R-asshole) and ask how he feels about Medicaid funding being reduced for upstate NY. Can't wait to hear how up is actually down.
posted by RedOrGreen at 12:37 PM on September 18, 2017 [3 favorites]

Which means that it's up to Rand Paul. He is putting up a good front about opposing it but, like the family Frankenstein, the madness lurks in the blood and turning one's back on a Paul is oft regretted.
posted by delfin at 12:37 PM on September 18, 2017 [5 favorites]

All of DC is a machine designed to wash the shit off white men in dark suits.

FTF[him], because DC's amazing cleansing power is less effective on black men, particularly black men in tan suits. Always remember to test DC against a small inobtrusive part of your electorate to identify and prevent any problems like visible staining or the complete takeover of the American government by virulent white supremacist smegsmears.
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 12:48 PM on September 18, 2017 [15 favorites]

If you want to help fund DACA renewals in Pennsylvania, you can donate to the Dreamers Initiative.
posted by mcduff at 12:49 PM on September 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

Moran making waffl-y noises:

Moran's office: "Sen. Moran continues to have conversations with Kansans and his colleagues regarding Graham/Cassidy and reconciliation"

posted by Chrysostom at 12:54 PM on September 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

There will be no CBO score of Graham-Cassidy. John McCain called for regular order.

Even Lisa Murkowski is now trying to justify a yes vote.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:57 PM on September 18, 2017 [13 favorites]

Congress is out of session all this week. They are only scheduled for four days next week, although I suppose they could extend it to Friday and Saturday, maybe. Then time is up. That's not much time to pass a bill in both houses.

Remember that the "skinny" repeal was just a placeholder so that Senate and House could resolve their differences in a conference committee. In this case, there is no time for a conference committee. The House will have to vote on the Senate bill word for word with no changes. That's going to be a tough pill to swallow, although not impossible.

I would hope that Schumer and Pelosi will use every dirty trick in the procedural book to jam up Congress for four days. No unanimous consent. Roll call on every vote. Quorum calls. As many amendment votes as they can manage. Republicans managed to do it for over a year for a Supreme Court nomination.
posted by JackFlash at 12:58 PM on September 18, 2017 [35 favorites]

"We're actually thinking about, 4th of July, Pennsylvania Avenue, having a really great parade to show our military strength."

You know what's great for military strength? Taking units out of their training cycles for like a month to prep, move, execute, and recover from a dog-and-pony show. To say nothing of how many vehicles* will break down going to and coming from the parade.

* -- Built by the lowest bidder, maintained mostly by people who do not know how the fuck to maintain a vehicle.
posted by Etrigan at 12:59 PM on September 18, 2017 [15 favorites]

Trump's DACA Moves Aren't Shaking His Most Loyal Supporters (NPR, Sept. 18, 2017)

Many conservatives pundits and lawmakers were incensed that President Donald Trump appeared to make a deal with Democrats to enshrine into law the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program that shields many undocumented immigrants who were brought into the U.S. as children. To make matters worse for immigration hawks, Trump is also not requiring funding to build a wall along the Mexican border as a condition of the possible deal.

For Trump, who campaigned in favor of the border wall and for ending the DACA program, his reversal is a major test of the so-called Fifth Avenue principle he gave during the election.

"They say I have the most loyal people. Did you ever see that? Where I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose any voters. It's like incredible," said Trump during a campaign stop in Sioux Center, Iowa in January 2016.
...
Trump's decision to not insist on funding for the wall as a condition of any deal wasn't seen as a betrayal to Kelsey Bayliss, a pharmacist from Wellman, Iowa.

"I think the wall itself will be built. I think it is good to work with Democrats with regards to DACA, I think there's a mutual agreement on everything. And we need to forget who's Republican and we need to forget who's Democrat and work for the better of the country.

Her husband, Austin, chimed in that after months of working with Republicans, Trump is finally getting a chance to use his famed negotiating skills.

"I think this is the beginning of the art of the deal and it's about time."

I laughed at that line when I heard it this morning. Now you can enjoy a photo of so many stodgy, older white people enjoying stodgy-looking comfort food: fried chicken, mashed potatoes and cookies.

In other "good god, this country is divided," NPR/Ipsos Poll: Half Of Americans Don't Trust Trump On North Korea -- it's no surprise which half that is. But one big surprise: The president has unilateral authority to launch a nuclear strike — a fact that surprises many Americans. Only about a quarter of the people surveyed know that Trump can order a strike on his own authority. Most incorrectly think he needs to get Congress' approval.

I wonder if they would change their mind if knew the truth of Trump's power (notwithstanding our own Stanislav Petrov). I imagine some would, but I know now that I shouldn't hope for much.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:03 PM on September 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

Yes, but the important thing is that Trump would get to live out his lifelong dream of standing up and waving as a bunch of big manly military vehicles pass by just like Joseph Stalin did!
posted by sotonohito at 1:04 PM on September 18, 2017 [5 favorites]

JackFlash, as I understand it the bill just needs to pass the Senate before the end of the month.
posted by mcduff at 1:04 PM on September 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

Remember that the "skinny" repeal was just a placeholder so that Senate and House could resolve their differences in a conference committee.

This was a lie. The House was going to vote on "skinny repeal" straight up and send it to Trump.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 1:04 PM on September 18, 2017 [13 favorites]

I'm late to the issue up thread about the terrible GOP tax reform ideas, but I feel a little poem is in order.

Share the wealth
Tax us more
And give it to the poor

Maybe it's a haiku or something. The thought is there anyway. If they want this 'hard(ly) working american's' thoughts.
posted by Gadgetenvy at 1:10 PM on September 18, 2017 [3 favorites]

That's not much time to pass a bill in both houses.

The House doesn't have to pass it by the end of the month, or so I've been told. The Senate can pass it before the budget resolution expires, but the House can pass it later. The catch is that the House can't then amend it, at all, without needing 60 votes in the Senate (or a new budget resolution, which is entirely possible), so it would be a take-it-or-leave it situation. Last time, the Senate was about to pass BCRA only if the House promised they wouldn't pass it as is. This time, the gun is fully loaded.

The other problem is that all this Graham-Cassidy mess is screwing up the bipartisan effort to reauthorize CHIP (the children's health insurance program). That expires at the end of the month too.

And McCain is on full on "regular order" mode, whatever that's going to actually mean in terms of his vote. @Alexruoff: McCain against Graham-Cassidy now. Reiterated his need for regular order: "it's about process, He said "regular order" three times when asked about his support. Says he wants months of hearings and debate and options for amendments

@Phil_Mattingly: McCain tells me Ducey support is helpful, but doesn't mean he's "inclined" to support it. Still very frustrated with process

@sahilkapur: McCAIN on Graham-Cassidy: "I am not supportive of the bill yet.". He emphasizes he wants regular order, says CBO non-score affects his view. McCain tells me and other reporters he wants markups and the ability to offer amendments to Graham-Cassidy.

Of course, if we lose Murkowski, McCain can complain about regular order all day long and it won't make a bit of difference.
posted by zachlipton at 1:13 PM on September 18, 2017 [9 favorites]

John McCain is exhausting. How does he keep up with himself?
posted by Glibpaxman at 1:17 PM on September 18, 2017 [11 favorites]

John McCain is exhausting. How does he keep up with himself?

When you have no principle besides "Keep the camera on me", you don't need to exert any effort on tracking your actual position.
posted by Etrigan at 1:21 PM on September 18, 2017 [9 favorites]

He's completely exhausting. He says he's not supportive "yet," while repeatedly requesting a set of things that he cannot have before the bill turns into a pumpkin on September 30th.

Paul doesn't sound enthusiastic either:

Paul on chances Graham/Cassidy health care bill could pass:
Last week I would have said zero. But now I'm worried
Paul on latest repeal and replace:
I thought it was dead and gone..I was surprised they tried to resurrect it
Paul on Graham/Cassidy heath care plan: It keep 90 percent of Obamacare and redistributes the proceeds..it is not repeal
Paul: This does not look, smell or sound like repeal..This is a game of Republicans sticking it to Democrats
Paul on the rush on health care due to Sept 30 deadline:
I think you can do the wrong thing...people are intent on just doing something

posted by zachlipton at 1:30 PM on September 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

"We're actually thinking about, 4th of July, Pennsylvania Avenue, having a really great parade to show our military strength."

You know what really shows a country's military strength? Not having to parade its hardware and personnel.
posted by Rykey at 1:30 PM on September 18, 2017 [32 favorites]

I wonder how many Republicans 1) don't want this to pass but also 2) don't want to vote against it, lest they get primaried.

Since McCain presumably isn't running again, and Collins wants to be governor, and Murkowski has no real fear of being primaried, they were bullet proof. As long as they were willing to vote against it, everyone else could vote for it so as to be on the record as trying to "repeal Obamacare" without fear that it would actually pass.

What kind of pressure do those three have on them in private, to keep providing cover for everyone else that way? If one of them actually does decide to flip, will someone else take the bullet to stop this from actually passing (Hatch? Were there rumors he was going to retire?)

I think McCain tried to keep his vote uncertain last time so that McConnell would actually bring it to a vote, bringing closure (temporarily) to the endless negotiation and overwhelming pressure from all sides. But if so you wouldn't think there was any strategic advantage to coyness this time, with the Sept 30th deadline about the put the thing out of its misery anyway.
posted by OnceUponATime at 1:31 PM on September 18, 2017 [4 favorites]

Paul almost sounds like a reasonable person if you just read his quotes, until you remember that he's against all these bill because they don't hurt enough people. He can't be trusted.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:33 PM on September 18, 2017 [19 favorites]

Hatch? Were there rumors he was going to retire?

Hatch is very unlikely as a No vote, but separately - he has not yet officially announced that he is running for re-election. He's 83 years old, fwiw.
posted by Chrysostom at 1:35 PM on September 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

Paul really really sounds like a no here, I've got to say:

@t_golshan: .@RandPaul said he doesn't "see any possibility" on this bill (Graham-Cassidy), when asked if any changes could change his mind.

I was really looking forward to not spending the next two weeks reading the tea leaves to try to figure out which Senators are in favor of killing us.

Anyway, go read Renato Mariotti's How to Read Bob Mueller’s Hand: "Based on what we know so far, here’s a former federal prosecutor’s expert read on where the Russian investigation is heading."
posted by zachlipton at 1:38 PM on September 18, 2017 [18 favorites]

As I understand it the bill just needs to pass the Senate before the end of the month.

Thanks for the correction. The House will still have to pass the Senate version word for word without amendments.
posted by JackFlash at 1:41 PM on September 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

Which they would do in a heartbeat, given the chance.
posted by perspicio at 1:45 PM on September 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

I wonder how many Republicans 1) don't want this to pass but also 2) don't want to vote against it, lest they get primaried.

Every one of them made that calculation for the last vote. We see how they voted.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 1:49 PM on September 18, 2017

Thanks for the correction. The House will still have to pass the Senate version word for word without amendments.

The relationships between reconciliation and conference reports get complicated, especially once you throw the deadlines into it, so I wouldn't want to bet that that's the case unless Sarah Binder/Greg Koger/Steve Smith/maybe Barbara Sinclair said so.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 1:53 PM on September 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

Ok, I'm declaring the bill dead for today. Join us tomorrow for another terrifying episode of "is it back?"

@frankthorp: Sen @MarkWarner tells @GarrettHaake and me he's a '👎' on Graham-Cassidy #exclu

@ChadPergram: GOP LA Sen Kennedy "uncertain" on latest health care bill. Sent 4 amdts to Graham/Cassidy. "I'm not completely there yet" GOP LA Sen Kennedy worried about block granting $ to states in new health care bill. Says CA and NY would set up a single payer system

"We can't give health care money to the states because blue states will use it for single payer" is an utterly unbelievable argument against a bill that is entirely premised on federalism by giving money to the states so they can use it the way they think best, but here we are.
posted by zachlipton at 1:55 PM on September 18, 2017 [64 favorites]

By which I mean that it might still be possible for the House to change things, the House and Senate go to conference, and finally bang out a bill they're ~~proud~~less embarrassed of that can still effectively pass with 50.

I am not saying this is the case; I don't get anywhere nearly that far into Senate minutiae. I only wouldn't want to bet the farm on it being false unless one of those previous people said "Yeah, they can't do that."
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 1:55 PM on September 18, 2017

Trump issued a Rosh Hashanah message and it's not horrible. Its brevity and formularity have been unfavorably compared to the last Rosh Hashanah message, delivered by President Obama, but it's not as bad as might have been expected. It condemns antisemitism and only has a small amount of self-aggrandisement and, unlike his Holocaust Remembrance Day message, actually mentions Jews. For once, Donald Trump has successfully met my low expectations.
posted by Joe in Australia at 2:00 PM on September 18, 2017 [6 favorites]

@frankthorp: Sen @MarkWarner tells @GarrettHaake and me he's a '👎' on Graham-Cassidy #exclu

Warner is a D, this is a scoop on par with "sun rises in east".
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 2:01 PM on September 18, 2017 [22 favorites]

"We can't give health care money to the states because blue states will use it for single payer" is an utterly unbelievable argument against a bill that is entirely premised on federalism by giving money to the states so they can use it the way they think best, but here we are.

See, they want red states to use that block money by stealing it for payoffs to Republican donors, not for health care costs. Can't have blue states actually innovating!
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:04 PM on September 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

Whether the bill is dead or not, I still say swamp 'em mercilessly with calls, emails, and letters, letting them know you're pissed that they're even still talking about it. Help them to understand that they will never know a moment's peace as long as they continue to defy the will of the people or otherwise act in ways that harm them.

Give them never-ending hell in a raucous box marked Return To Sender.
posted by perspicio at 2:07 PM on September 18, 2017 [9 favorites]

I am not saying this is the case; I don't get anywhere nearly that far into Senate minutiae. I only wouldn't want to bet the farm on it being false unless one of those previous people said "Yeah, they can't do that."

I'm pretty sure they can't do that, the FY2017 reconciliation instructions expire, any changes after 9/30 would be subject to 60 votes under the 2018 reconciliation instructions, which don't exist yet, and Republicans will use for tax "reform". Any changes made in what would normally be a conference committee would have to be voted on again by the Senate. If the Senate passes something at the deadline, that's a take it or leave it to the House.
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:10 PM on September 18, 2017

"We can't give health care money to the states because blue states will use it for single payer" is an utterly unbelievable argument against a bill that is entirely premised on federalism by giving money to the states so they can use it the way they think best, but here we are.

The implied second clause of that argument is "...and when they show us that it works by providing better care on average for less cost, we won't be argue against the imaginary socialist, death panel creating single payer system boogy man."
posted by TwoWordReview at 2:12 PM on September 18, 2017 [16 favorites]

"Here's a photo of Ty Cobb & John Dowd casually & loudly discussing details of Russia investigation at @BLTSteakDC while I sat at next table."

How was the steak done? Did they have ketchup?

There are standards on Trump reportage that need to be upheld!
posted by srboisvert at 2:22 PM on September 18, 2017 [6 favorites]

You know what really shows a country's military strength? Not having to parade its hardware and personnel.

WaPo: U.S. jets drop live bombs in a new, massive show of force aimed at North Korea

Live fire bombing practice by B-1Bs within "a few dozen miles" of the DMZ seems like a very safe way to make a point in advance of a UN address.....said no one with a half a brain.
posted by snuffleupagus at 2:36 PM on September 18, 2017 [4 favorites]

The implied second clause of that argument is "...and when they show us that it works by providing better care on average for less cost, we won't be argue against the imaginary socialist, death panel creating single payer system boogy man."

I dunno about that. If you're looking to elect a permanent R electoral college you send Democratic voting sickies to the blue states (give them a ride to the bus station and a ticket) and the red states just get redder keeping the nation in a whole heap of GOP hegemony.

Plus talk about corporate welfare. If there were blue states with single payer and if I were an evil business lord I would entice people in with low taxes, low cost of living, but low wages, grind them up, then send them to Mass or California to handle the medical bills.

There's such a fucking bonanza here of socializing corporate externalities that I'm not at all surprised on how it turned out.
posted by Talez at 2:39 PM on September 18, 2017 [4 favorites]

The headline reads: Hillary Clinton just floated the possibility of contesting the 2016 election.

Which isn't actually what happened. (It's an article by Chris Cillizza, who is apparently incapable of reporting anything accurately.) She was asked if she would consider it if evidence of collusion with Russia by Trump became incontrovertible and said she wouldn't rule it out. Cillizza's breathless analysis follows.

It's not going to happen for a bunch of reasons, but just for one glorious moment, imagine Trump's incandescent fury.
posted by zarq at 2:46 PM on September 18, 2017 [25 favorites]

Vox is killing me with their reporting on Sanders' healthcare plan and I want to scream. They keep saying, over and over,

"Sure people pay a lot for their insurance, but it's possible that Bernie's plan would lead to taxes that are even higher than those premiums for some people. We can't run the numbers because there are no details about pay-fors - we have no idea what people would be paying under this plan. We can't figure out if people would be worse off or not. So we're going to keep repeating that you might be worse off under single payer."

They can't run the numbers but they can do better than that. They could say like, "On average people are already spending over 10% of their income on healthcare -" (Even if it's coming from their employer, that's still part of your pay, and BTW Donald Trump wants to tax you on it.) They could say "It would probably take a tax rate increase of 15% for most people to feel any difference."

They would be ballpark numbers, but that would still be more context and more helpful context. They have enough information to do better.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 2:49 PM on September 18, 2017 [20 favorites]

If only there were some other countries we could look to so we.could estimate the cost of single payer! Or state Medicaid programs. Oh well, let's just repeat some vague scary bullshit.
posted by benzenedream at 2:53 PM on September 18, 2017 [14 favorites]

They can't run the numbers but they can do better than that. They could say like, "On average people are already spending over 10% of their income on healthcare -" (Even if it's coming from their employer, that's still part of your pay, and BTW Donald Trump wants to tax you on it.) They could say "It would probably take a tax rate increase of 15% for most people to feel any difference."

Well here's the thing right. Under the ACA there's the 85/15 rule. So whatever amount you're putting into the healthcare system, 15% of it is coming straight off the top. Medicare has a most favored nation status so it's already paying the lowest amount for EVERY healthcare service. Anyone who says healthcare would be more expensive as single payer is fucking high. The back of the napkin math is completely and ridiculously against the private insurance system.

If you were starting from single payer and arguing that you want to move to a system where an insurance company can take 15% profit and get charged more people would think you're an absolute fucking pillock because it's incredibly obvious that costs are going to go up.
posted by Talez at 2:58 PM on September 18, 2017 [13 favorites]

Jesus, the GOP health care plans are deeply unpopular in the country. But here we are again, trying to read the tea leaves on whether John McCain actually means anything when he says he's "concerned" and how the fates of 30 million people hang in the balance.

For a representative democracy, this some bullshit.
posted by darkstar at 2:59 PM on September 18, 2017 [38 favorites]

And if you were going to implement single payer you'd sure as hell do it as a payroll tax similar to insurance premiums now.
posted by Talez at 2:59 PM on September 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

We know and they are acknowledging where the money is coming from. What he's asking for is unprecedented, and yes, it's actually important to find out what single payer will cost if we want to finance it in a sustainable way.

If only there were some other countries we could look to so we.could estimate the cost of single payer!

We can't. Because those other countries limit what medical vendors and physicians can charge the public. Their price structure is outlined by the government. Our government only does that for Medicare, and that is not consistent. Some things are covered. Some are not. Some are expected to be covered by Medicaid or out of pocket. And there are limits to Medicare coverage. It only covers a certain amount annually. And not all medications. Medicare does not cover everything. There are different kinds of Medicare. There are private plans that people use to supplement their coverage when they fall into the donut gap. We can't use medicaid as a universal reference because medicaid coverage and benefits vary widely from state to state.

They could say like, "On average people are already spending over 10% of their income on healthcare -"

Which is true, but still is not helpful information beyond "we need something better" and we already know that. We all know that single payer as a Medicare plan will almost definitely be lower than what people are paying now on average for worse coverage. Simply because what Medicare pays for is lower than everyone else.

But we still need to know the numbers.

Senator Sanders is asking for a level of coverage that is not covered by Medicare, never has been covered by it and is also not covered by the very best Medicare and Medicaid plans combined. For everyone in the country. Without any supplemental private insurance to fill in the gaps. That's never been done before. And how much it costs is an insanely complicated question which we actually need answers to. The numbers have to be run if we want a plan that's going to last. And that is what Vox is saying. They're not being outright dismissive. It's a complicated thing and analyses are needed.
posted by zarq at 3:06 PM on September 18, 2017 [11 favorites]

And if you were going to implement single payer you'd sure as hell do it as a payroll tax similar to insurance premiums now.

You would fund the entire health care system entirely with a regressive tax on workers? A lot of people would vehemently disagree with that approach.
posted by zachlipton at 3:07 PM on September 18, 2017 [7 favorites]

Sanders explains how he wants to fund it.
posted by zarq at 3:08 PM on September 18, 2017 [5 favorites]

One of the other reasons the GOP don't want block grants to states is that, if some states used the money to shift to single payer, then corporations would no longer need to provide health care benefits in that state. So, corporations would be more inclined to locate (or relocate) in those states.

You'd see a drain from red states to blue states of manufacturing and tech sector companies that could reduce their number one expense (wages & benefits) by 10% or more.

Corporations that remained in the red states would find themselves at an immediate disadvantage by having to cover health care costs in order to compete with job offers in blue states with single payer.

Can't have that, even if it does put the lie to the claim that it's all supposedly about state's rights, etc. Another example of "you're not supposed to say that out loud, Congressman."
posted by darkstar at 3:09 PM on September 18, 2017 [23 favorites]

states rights is supposed to be a race to the bottom not the top!
posted by Glibpaxman at 3:12 PM on September 18, 2017 [4 favorites]

Hey, looks like those F-35Bs dropped bombs, too. Without, like, a wing breaking off or something.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 3:16 PM on September 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

Like, that's great single payer yes good, BUT WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE SOON.
posted by Justinian at 3:16 PM on September 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

Senator Sanders is asking for a level of coverage that is not covered by Medicare, never has been covered by it and is also not covered by the very best Medicare and Medicaid plans combined.

It's also beyond what is covered by government plans in other countries. In most countries 10% (the UK, Sweden) to 30% (Canada, Switzerland) of costs are paid for by private sector entities. It's not 100% government in any country, but that seems to be what Sanders is proposing. Also doctors here are unlikely to accept 50% pay cuts, just because doctors in other countries make half what they do here.

So it really is hard to estimate what would happen with Sanders' plan.
posted by OnceUponATime at 3:17 PM on September 18, 2017 [3 favorites]

It ends up being a LOT more attractive than that in some industries. If the healthcare benefits extend to retirees by contract (so, union workers by and large), then the company has to carry the present value of that debt as a long-term liability on their balance sheet. It accounted for something like a quarter GM's liabilities before their bankruptcy. Now I can evaporate that debt from my balance sheet by simply only hiring workers from states with single-payer?

Heck, if I have jobs that could be done remotely, I can save the couple thousand I'd be spending on their health insurance and even put it toward their salary if I need to.
posted by VTX at 3:24 PM on September 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

Talking about how we're going to fund Single Payer when we're days away from destroying health care in the country is like spending all your time talking about what you're going to do with your signing bonus with the Yankees when you're a 16 year old about to go in for surgery on your rotator cuff.

If Republicans do manage to repeal the ACA and strip healthcare coverage from millions of American citizens, it would be best to have viable alternative options to talk about. Since they'll be first against the wall when the revolution comes.
posted by zarq at 3:25 PM on September 18, 2017 [4 favorites]

I see Sanders as a true believer, but one who is realistic and who also understands the value of planting a flag to define the moral high ground for the folks that follow after.

He may not realistically expect Single Payer to become reality right away, but he knows (as I think most of us do) that or some variation thereof is inevitable. So he's helping shift the Overton Window to allow us all the space to discuss and agree to something perhaps less than pure Single Payer for now, but which will move us in the right direction toward universal coverage.
posted by darkstar at 3:26 PM on September 18, 2017 [32 favorites]

I'm gonna need a lot more than Murkowski saying that she's "still looking at it" to believe she'd vote for this bill. She made those noises about skinny repeal etc as well. There is no reason to take a firm position when there is still a chance the bill never comes up for a vote.

I believe Collins and Murkowski are NO votes. So you need one of McCain or Paul to vote NO as well. I think McCain was hoping to use Ducey as cover to vote against this one but now Ducey came out for it, so he's left in a bind. Maybe Paul will decide this bill doesn't screw enough poor people or something.
posted by Justinian at 3:26 PM on September 18, 2017 [5 favorites]

Where is Moore Capito on this?
posted by fluttering hellfire at 3:37 PM on September 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

It's obvious that single payer will come with pricing controls, which is why everyone benefiting from the current mess (specialists, drug companies) will fight it tooth and nail.
posted by benzenedream at 3:37 PM on September 18, 2017 [6 favorites]

In case you need any more data points to convince your friends and family to call their senators:
this bill is estimated to cause 32 million people to lose health insurance. That's 10 percent of the people in this country.
posted by mcduff at 3:39 PM on September 18, 2017 [17 favorites]

Orrin Hatch has scheduled a hearing for Monday. That gives McCain his cover to claim "regular order".

Where is Moore Capito on this?

She showed her colors last time, she's a party line vote. The only reason she was considered a get-able 'no' is because of the disproportionate number of West Virginian's on Medicaid. She happily told all those people to drop dead a month ago.
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:46 PM on September 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

You would fund the entire health care system entirely with a regressive tax on workers? A lot of people would vehemently disagree with that approach.

You already do that. 155 million Americans, almost half, get their health insurance from their employer. The employer is already paying a health insurance "payroll tax". Under the Sanders plan, instead of paying it to private insurance companies, employers would pay it to Medicare.

As for the employee portion, currently every employee pays the same premium, regardless of wage, low or high. Under the Sanders plan the employee would pay a percentage of wage, which is more progressive than the current flat fee.
posted by JackFlash at 3:47 PM on September 18, 2017 [3 favorites]

I get that Sanders' plan is uniquely generous as written. I still think it's misleading to say people MIGHT pay more in taxes than they do in premiums. I mean, they might possibly. But most people don't have a good grasp on how much our system costs, because it's set up deliberately to hide costs, so they don't have the proper context to interpret the cost of single-payer. It makes that statement sound a lot more likely than it really is. It feels dishonest to gloss over the cost of our current system and talk about taxes.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 3:53 PM on September 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

[Countries with a single-payer medical system] limit what medical vendors and physicians can charge the public. Their price structure is outlined by the government.

Not in Australia, which is often used as an example of single-payer systems. The government specifies how much it will pay for procedures, but providers are free to charge more and many do. In fact the government pretty much expects that providers will charge more than the rebate amount, for policy reasons. Bad ones IMO, but there you are.

If I were going to transform the US medical payment system I would start by looking at what insurance companies currently pay for, and base my system on rebates on that. Government-assured payments would greatly reduce the cost of billing and debt recovery so I would expect charges to be discounted by some fraction, but billing is already opaque so who knows.

Private insurance could compete as an alternative to the government-level payments, or a supplement which would cover things like private hospital rooms and so forth. People would have to start with the expectation that the system is not going to be perfect, and basing coverage on a good average existing insurance plan (but without deductibles) would be a way to do it.
posted by Joe in Australia at 3:55 PM on September 18, 2017 [4 favorites]

Argh, I omitted a whole phrase from my earlier comment.

It should have said "One of the other reasons the GOP don't want block grants to states to be used to fund state-by-state single payer programs is that..."

The Times ragrets the error.
posted by darkstar at 3:58 PM on September 18, 2017

SCOOP-O-CLOCK from CNN: Exclusive: US government wiretapped former Trump campaign chairman. There was a FISA warrant out for Manafort as early as 2014, when the FBI was investigating work that Washington lobbying firms were doing in Ukraine. It expired sometime last year due to lack of evidence, and the FBI got a new warrant to investigate connections between the Trump campaign and Russia. However, there was a gap in the surveillance that included June 2016, when the Trump Tower meeting took place.

Some of the intelligence collected includes communications that sparked concerns among investigators that Manafort had encouraged the Russians to help with the campaign, according to three sources familiar with the investigation. Two of these sources, however, cautioned that the evidence is not conclusive.
...
It is unclear when the new warrant started. The FBI interest deepened last fall because of intercepted communications between Manafort and suspected Russian operatives, and among the Russians themselves, that reignited their interest in Manafort, the sources told CNN. As part of the FISA warrant, CNN has learned that earlier this year, the FBI conducted a search of a storage facility belonging to Manafort. It's not known what they found.

The conversations between Manafort and Trump continued after the President took office, long after the FBI investigation into Manafort was publicly known, the sources told CNN. They went on until lawyers for the President and Manafort insisted that they stop, according to the sources.

It's unclear whether Trump himself was picked up on the surveillance.

posted by zachlipton at 4:03 PM on September 18, 2017 [32 favorites]

> Oh god, he's hold my beer-ing his own statements.

Deadspin: ESPN's Public Editor Is Mad Online

A sizable number of people were engaging the thin-skinned Brady while he was—by his own account—not having a nervous breakdown. One of them was freelance sportswriter Dave Lozo, who cracked a joke at the public editor’s expense and also called him the “dumbest person alive.”

As Lozo explained today—as Lozo learned today—Brady is CEO of Spirited Media, a company which owns a few local sports sites, one of them being Pittsburgh-based news site The Incline—which Lozo contributed to once a week during the last NHL season.

(Is it weird that ESPN’s ombudsman is the CEO of a media company? It is very weird. Perhaps it says something about why Brady’s approach to the Jemele Hill tweets was to prioritize the corporation and its executives over journalism or newsgathering or truth-telling. Perhaps it also says something that Brady insists on using the word “use” to describe what writers are for, rather than “employ” or “work with.” But again we must move on.) [...]

We asked if ESPN has any comment on its public editor having a sustained meltdown over the past few days, and how that fits in with the company’s social media policy. “No,” an ESPN spokesperson told us.

It is probably an exaggeration to say that Jim Brady is the dumbest person alive. But not much of one.

posted by tonycpsu at 4:05 PM on September 18, 2017 [9 favorites]

But wait, there's more, from the Times: With a Picked Lock and a Threatened Indictment, Mueller’s Inquiry Sets a Tone

Paul J. Manafort was in bed early one morning in July when federal agents bearing a search warrant picked the lock on his front door and raided his Virginia home. They took binders stuffed with documents and copied his computer files, looking for evidence that Mr. Manafort, President Trump’s former campaign chairman, set up secret offshore bank accounts. They even photographed the expensive suits in his closet.

The special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, then followed the house search with a warning: His prosecutors told Mr. Manafort they planned to indict him, said two people close to the investigation.

The moves against Mr. Manafort are just a glimpse of the aggressive tactics used by Mr. Mueller and his team of prosecutors in the four months since taking over the Justice Department’s investigation into Russia’s attempts to disrupt last year’s election, according to lawyers, witnesses and American officials who have described the approach. Dispensing with the plodding pace typical of many white-collar investigations, Mr. Mueller’s team has used what some describe as shock-and-awe tactics to intimidate witnesses and potential targets of the inquiry.

We already knew about the search warrant, but I believe the threat to indict him is new. And it means they convinced judges there's probable cause for both the FISA warrant and the no-knock search warrant.
posted by zachlipton at 4:10 PM on September 18, 2017 [36 favorites]

Over on 538: Republicans Really Could Repeal Obamacare This Time
posted by StrawberryPie at 4:12 PM on September 18, 2017

RYKEY ---

Ibram X Kendi's book is a must read for us all. I read it a year ago and a day doesn't go by without me thinking about it. As much as we might feel that we are not racist, it is burned into our culture and oozes from every pore. His analysis is deep and wide. One sentence still rattles about in my head. I paraphrase... "What does the color of someone's skin have to do with anything?" In this country's history including today and tomorrow and probably years to come it appears to mean a whole lot to a lot of people. St Louis, now, anyone? Our president?

Everyone, please read this book.
posted by njohnson23 at 4:13 PM on September 18, 2017 [8 favorites]

What happens if this thing becomes law and the individual market ceases to function? That's not a rhetorical question. Like... do we just let everyone die?
posted by Justinian at 4:15 PM on September 18, 2017 [3 favorites]

Yup.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 4:16 PM on September 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

Like... do we just let everyone die?

Isn't that basically what happened before? So yes.
posted by thefoxgod at 4:17 PM on September 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

Oh I see what you mean. In my experience the individual market pre-ACA was pretty bad (either super expensive or useless), but it could be even worse now I guess.
posted by thefoxgod at 4:23 PM on September 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

There won't even be Panels.

Instead there will be Adam Smith's invisible hand choosing who lives and dies.
posted by JackFlash at 4:23 PM on September 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

VIRGINIA HOUSE ELECTIONS - HD 51-55

intro
1-5
6-10
11-15
16-20
21-25
26-30
31-35
36-40
41-45
46-50

===

51st District
Currently GOP seat
R cand: Richard Anderson (incumbent)
D cand: Hala Ayala

DC suburbs (Prince William), 68.8% white. Incumbent first elected in 2009. R won 54-46 in 2013, no D candidate in 2015. Clinton won district 52-43.

===

52nd District
Currently Dem seat
R cand: none
D cand: Luke Torian (incumbent)

DC suburbs (Prince William), 42.3% white. Incumbent first elected in 2009. No R candidate in 2013 or 2015. Clinton won district 73-23.

===

53rd District
Currently Dem seat
R cand: none
D cand: Marcus Simon (incumbent)

DC suburbs (Falls Church), 60.6% white. Incumbent first elected in 2013. D won 67-29 in 2013, no R candidate in 2015. Clinton won district 71-22. There is an independent candidate.

===

54th District
Currently GOP seat
R cand: Bobby Orrock (incumbent)
D cand: Al Durante

Midway between DC and Richmond, 72.9% white. Incumbent first elected in 1989. No D candidate in 2013 or 2015. Trump won district 53-42.

===

55th District
Currently GOP seat
R cand: Buddy Fowler Jr. (incumbent)
D cand: Morgan Goodman

Midway between DC and Richmond, 79.5% white. Incumbent first elected in 2013. R won 57-38 in 2013 and 60-40 in 2015. Trump won district 58-37.

===

Next time: 56-60
posted by Chrysostom at 4:24 PM on September 18, 2017 [25 favorites]

Before there was an individual market. You had trouble if you had a pre-existing condition or were poor or working class, yes, but lots of people still got covered. The scale of the issue will be an order of magnitude greater under this proposed law.

Yeah, but that's a problem for Future Mitch and Future Paul. 2017 Mitch and 2017 Paul like this just fine, even if they sorta know that Future Mitch and Future Paul are going to curse them.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 4:25 PM on September 18, 2017

It would take a year or so to fully collapse, right? Insurance policies are contracts. They can't jack up premiums mid-year, and this year's prices are already set. Next year's enrollment period is when we'd see insane death spiral prices. I think.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 4:25 PM on September 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

JackFlash: "Instead there will be Adam Smith's invisible hand choosing who lives and dies."

Kind of unfair to Smith, who was less sympathetic to the market than his caricature. See especially his Theory of Moral Sentiments.
posted by Chrysostom at 4:26 PM on September 18, 2017 [9 favorites]

Heh, "that's a problem for Future Mitch" does indeed seem to be the motto of the current congress.
posted by Justinian at 4:26 PM on September 18, 2017 [6 favorites]

It's not just health and longevity that will be compromised, but financial security, when we revert to the scourge of medical bankruptcy.

Before the ACA, the single largest cause of personal bankruptcy in the U.S. was due to medical expenses, and the majority of those were folks who had some kind of health care coverage or insurance.

When you get cancer and the meds cost thousands of dollars a month, you reach those lifetime caps fast. Then you go into debt. Then you second-mortgage your house. Then you cash in your retirement.

Then you're truly screwed, and somewhere along the line you start thinking about having to divorce your spouse so you can be declared indigent, so you can go on Medicaid while they keep working.

Real family-friendly public policy, that.
posted by darkstar at 4:37 PM on September 18, 2017 [54 favorites]

Kind of unfair to Smith

It's not about Smith. It's about Republicans who do indeed believe that Adam Smith's invisible hand should make life and death decisions.

But you are right. Republicans have perverted Smith's actual beliefs, but here we are.
posted by JackFlash at 4:39 PM on September 18, 2017

One of the many horrible things about Graham-Cassidy is that it allows insurance companies to raise your rates at any time. So, say you get a cancer diagnosis. They will be legally able to immediately change your premium to something so high that you have to drop coverage. This, of course, pretty much negates the purpose of having insurance.
posted by mcduff at 4:41 PM on September 18, 2017 [51 favorites]

Mr. Mueller and his Team of Prosecutors is my favorite band! The rocked it at Lollapalooza last year.
posted by kirkaracha at 5:03 PM on September 18, 2017 [2 favorites]

Hurricane Maria is now a Category 5 hurricane 15 miles from Dominica, passing near the Virgin Islands, and headed directly for Puerto Rico by Wednesday. Trump has signed a disaster declaration.
posted by zachlipton at 5:03 PM on September 18, 2017 [3 favorites]

Meanwhile the Senate approved a $700bil increase in military spending. That's over twice what they're proposing to save from kicking 32million people off of health insurance.

This is not about spending. It's about Republicans want to kill American citizens.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:05 PM on September 18, 2017 [72 favorites]

Someone must have not told Trump yet because all's quiet on the Twitter front.

I expected a three tweet long tirade of "DEMOCRATS ILLEGALLY TAPPED MY TOWER!"
posted by Talez at 5:06 PM on September 18, 2017 [6 favorites]

I hope the glass-jawed nazi from Seattle today also gets to lose his job after he's doxxed. A lot of people on Twitter wringing their hands about "innocent civilians" getting punched, but I kind of feel like wearing a nazi armband makes you neither. You put on the uniform, you become a combatant.
posted by ctmf at 5:55 PM on September 18, 2017 [38 favorites]

It's about Republicans want to kill American citizens.

I can understand two parts of this equation, but the last one completely baffles me. Like, my family is full of people who think that they pulled themselves up by their bootstraps. (Nevermind that my grandfather avoided starving to death thanks to his father getting hired to plant trees where none were needed as part of the WPA and that he joined the Navy at 17 with a note from his mom so he could eat on the government's dime in the 40's. They still pulled themselves up by their bootstraps, obvs.) These people resent giving "lazy poor people" things "for free." They are also quite dedicated to the idea that having the gubbiment force you to get insurance is fascism. I don't agree with either of these things, but I get these points of view.

But what totally breaks down for me is depriving others of their humanity. There are very few people that I wouldn't piss on if they were on fire, and even those people deserve health care. Because they are people. Human beings. How can people like McCain and Graham look themselves in the mirror and call themselves Christian if they're willing to unceremoniously dump millions of people off of their health plans? I just can't fathom it. It's like a tweet I saw a few weeks back--I don't know how to explain to you that you should care about other people.
posted by xyzzy at 6:11 PM on September 18, 2017 [21 favorites]

Weird that both Don Jr and Kellyanne are refusing secret service but I'm sure it's just because it's invasive, right?
posted by Brainy at 6:32 PM on September 18, 2017 [8 favorites]

ELECTIONS NEWS

** AL senate special:

-- New JMC Analytics poll has Moore ahead of Strange 50-42, indicating maybe some slight tightening, but not much.

-- First round candidate and House Freedom Caucus guy Mo Brooks has endorsed Moore. [Roll Call]

-- Trump, who had endorsed Strange first round, but then had fallen quiet, will be coming to campaign with him. [HuffPo]

** 2018 Senate -- WPA Intelligence poll has state Treasurer Kelly Schmidt up 48-44 over Sen Heidi Heitkamp. Schmidt hasn't even declared, so someone may be up to something with this poll.

** VA gov:

-- Two new polls in for this race, which has been pretty lightly surveyed so far. Princeton Survey Research has Northam up 44-39, while Suffolk has it tied at 42-42. I've seen some discussion that maybe the Suffolk under-sampled Dems, but you need to be careful not to cherry pick.

-- Northam way ahead in the money race, with $7.2M raised in Jul/Aug and $5.6M on hand, versus Gillespie's $3.7M and $2.6M, respectively.

** 2018 House:

-- Mentioned upstream, the DCCC is raising record amounts, and outraising the GOP.

-- Former GOP Rep Mike Grimm is thinking of running for his old NY-11 seat. You might remember his forced resignation and prison time for tax fraud.

posted by Chrysostom at 6:37 PM on September 18, 2017 [17 favorites]

I am all hearts and rainbows that Facebook getting a search warrant from Mueller.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 6:37 PM on September 18, 2017 [10 favorites]

It's because it's invasive, just not in the way you might mean.
posted by VTX at 6:50 PM on September 18, 2017

Kellyanne Conway Offended by Emmy ‘Insults About Our Leader’

Verspotten nicht unseren glücklichen Spaßführer.
posted by kirkaracha at 6:50 PM on September 18, 2017 [8 favorites]

Google translates that as "do not miss our happy lover."
posted by Archelaus at 6:54 PM on September 18, 2017 [7 favorites]

Dang it, it was supposed to be "Do not taunt our happy fun leader"!
According to Google Translate.
posted by kirkaracha at 7:00 PM on September 18, 2017 [8 favorites]

Secretary of the Louisiana Department of Health Rebekah Gee writes a letter to Sen. Cassidy "explaining how his bill uniquely and disproportionally hurts his home state of Louisiana."
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:05 PM on September 18, 2017 [52 favorites]

Dang it, it was supposed to be "Do not taunt our happy fun leader"!

Spotten Sie nicht unseren glücklichen, lustigen Führer
posted by dis_integration at 7:15 PM on September 18, 2017 [8 favorites]

(ein Spaßführer would be like, "Someone who leads the fun". Google translate is still garbage)
posted by dis_integration at 7:17 PM on September 18, 2017 [7 favorites]

I've been really busy, so this letter is my first chance to provide some material to use for protesting Graham-Cassidy. I'm so so far out of fucks to give on giving elected Republicans any benefit of the doubt on healthcare. I'm with that T.D. Strange that they want to kill us for tax cuts. Feel free to modify for your own purposes--some of it is pretty inflammatory.

Senator [Whoever],

I am writing to again beg for the lives of approximately 32 million Americans[, including mine/ anyone else you know who uses the system]. I depend on Medicaid for my healthcare and the Graham-Cassidy bill would destroy the program as we know it.

This bill would:

- End the Medicaid expansion, costing 11 million low-income adults their healthcare.

[For Dems. - Make funding into block grants, which would take money from states that don't elect Repubicans to federal office, so Repubicans in other states could spend the money on other items not related to healthcare.]

[For Republicans: - Make funding into block grants, usable for for purposes other than healthcare, and depriving citizens of our state of medical care.]

- Allow insurance companies to deny coverage based on pre-existing conditions, which would exclude [people in your life who would be affected].

- Allow insurance companies to re-instate lifetime coverage caps.

- Allow insurance companies to raise premiums at any time, thus defeating the entire purpose of using insurance to distribute the sharing of risk.

- Cause premiums to spike 20% in the next year.

This bill is even worse than Mitch McConnell's last [murderous] healthcare nightmare. Again, there have been no substantial public hearings, no substantial committee discussion, and none of John McCain's 'regular order' plea. Again McConnell is about to try to ram another bill through with reconciliation but this time without a CBO score!

[Dems: With these repeated attempts to steal healthcare from tens of millions of Americans and the implicit threat of damning hundreds of thousands of us to premature deaths, I can only conclude that Republicans want us to die so their rich friends can get tax cuts. I am no longer willing to extend the benefit of the doubt to them. They. Want. Poor. Americans. To. DIE.

Thus, I fully expect that you will use every procedural process to grind the Senate to a halt. Unanimous consent should never be given. Every vote should be a full role call vote. Quorum calls must be the norm because this bill must never, ever pass any chamber of Congress. It is a murderous monstrosity.

Thank you for continuing your efforts to fight for our healthcare.]

[Republicans: If you truly care about our country and state, you will not support this monstrosity of a bill. If you do, I will campaign against you, donate to your opponents, and make sure every single person i know associates your name and face with the hundreds of thousands who will die prematurely. I will hold you personally responsible for the blood this bill will spill.

With these repeated attempts to steal healthcare from tens of millions of Americans and the implicit threat of damning hundreds of thousands of us to premature deaths, I can only conclude that your party want us to die so your rich masters can get tax cuts. I am no longer willing to extend the benefit of the doubt to your party. You. Want. Poor. Americans. To. DIE.

Prove me wrong and vote against this latest legislative travesty.]

Sincerely,
[Your name]

posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 7:22 PM on September 18, 2017 [46 favorites]

Given today's revelations I'm gonna guess that what set Trump off about being "wire tapped by Obama" was that somebody told him about the Manafort FISA. He's just not imaginative enough to come up with something like that on his own, there must've been a trigger & his bizarre delayed echolalia took it from there. Mangled & self-serving but with a seed of truth.
posted by scalefree at 7:25 PM on September 18, 2017 [7 favorites]

Politico: White House backs pharma partnership after delaying other opioid panel proposals

In which the White House pals around with drug companies about maybe coming up with "non-opioid pain medication, as well as new medication-assisted treatment options" someday, but is dragging its feet on the recommendations of its own commission to declare a national emergency and to waive the prohibition against using Medicaid funds to pay for residential substance abuse treatment, which, you know, would actually help people immediately.
posted by zachlipton at 7:42 PM on September 18, 2017 [5 favorites]

I think Republicans have simply embraced Mitt Romney's playbook and taken it to the next level: they want us all to self-deport.
posted by SPrintF at 7:44 PM on September 18, 2017 [9 favorites]

The Lawfare gang has posted their analysis of tonight's scoop-o-clock. It's a good read if you're trying to make sense of this all. A highlight:

The significance of this is that it means that Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation has reached a critical stage—the point at which he may soon start making allegations in public. Those allegations may involve conduct unrelated to L’Affaire Russe—that is, alleged bad behavior by Manafort and maybe others that does not involve the Trump campaign—but which may nonetheless serve to pressure Manafort to cooperate on matters more central. Or they may involve conduct that involves his behavior with respect to the campaign itself. Note that if Manafort cooperates, we may not see anything public for a long time to come. Delay, that is, may be a sign of success. But in the absence of cooperation, the fireworks may be about to begin.

On the other hand, it ends "People anticipating a swift end to this drama should temper their expectations."
posted by zachlipton at 8:19 PM on September 18, 2017 [17 favorites]

Watergate took two years, Mueller has been on the job less than 5 months.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:35 PM on September 18, 2017 [16 favorites]

Mueller doesn't work that way. He is methodical and precise and compiles evidence irrefutable in its completion. Yes, he once raced up the stairwell of a hospital to prevent the formation of a Secret Police, in defiance of his own party, and the hospitalized AG, who was otherwise horrible, agreed that a secret police is a bad idea, but this situation is not that situation.

Obama kept Mueller on for a reason - no matter his personal politics, He Takes His Job Seriously, even if it means going against his own party. I hope.
posted by Slap*Happy at 8:39 PM on September 18, 2017 [8 favorites]

NYT: Trump Administration Rejects Study Showing Positive Impact of Refugees

Trump administration officials, under pressure from the White House to provide a rationale for reducing the number of refugees allowed into the United States next year, rejected a study by the Department of Health and Human Services that found that refugees brought in $63 billion more in government revenues over the past decade than they cost.

The draft report, which was obtained by The New York Times, contradicts a central argument made by advocates of deep cuts in refugee totals as President Trump faces an Oct. 1 deadline to decide on an allowable number. The issue has sparked intense debate within his administration as opponents of the program, led by Mr. Trump’s chief policy adviser, Stephen Miller, assert that continuing to welcome refugees is too costly and raises concerns about terrorism.

Some brave civil servants involved in this one.
posted by zachlipton at 9:06 PM on September 18, 2017 [65 favorites]

Obama kept Mueller on for a reason - no matter his personal politics, He Takes His Job Seriously, even if it means going against his own party. I hope.

'Course he also kept Comey on for a reason!

I think the fatal mistake made by almost everyone not named Trump in the 2016 election was assuming Trump couldn't win and acting in ways they would not act if they could conceive of it being a real possibility. This includes Obama, Clinton, Sanders, Comey, and everybody else not named Trump.

Hell, it probably includes Trump.
posted by Justinian at 9:26 PM on September 18, 2017 [14 favorites]

From Andy Slavitt (Obama healtcare bigwig): BREAKING: Republican leadership now putting all eggs in Graham Cassidy. Word is no bipartisan deal and no waivers. Strong arm calls tonight.

So this is it. They're really going all in on this. Pure evil.
posted by Justinian at 9:54 PM on September 18, 2017 [44 favorites]

I hope any Alaska peeps are calling Murkowski pretty much nonstop. Collins seems a firm NO, but Murkowski is going to get the full court press and will be ~~bribed~~ incentivized massively by Republican leadership and seems more wobbly.
posted by Justinian at 9:57 PM on September 18, 2017 [1 favorite]

I'm not sure how you solve the problem of having nothing but millionaires as lawmakers naturally insulates them from 95% of their constituency, and makes them sympathetic to the people even richer than they are. We do not make it easy, or even possible, to be anything other than rich to be a candidate.
posted by maxwelton at 10:12 PM on September 18, 2017 [13 favorites]

McCain got his military money.
posted by ctmf at 10:23 PM on September 18, 2017

I feel like the best strategy might be sending McCain a jar of Metamucil and a bag of prunes, because this thing is basically going to come down to whether he's had a decent bowel movement on the day of the vote.
posted by darkstar at 10:31 PM on September 18, 2017

Great video of the most recent Nazi-punching.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 10:32 PM on September 18, 2017 [16 favorites]

I hope any Alaska peeps are calling Murkowski pretty much nonstop.

I pay regular calls on our senate delegation's local staff (but Sullivan's basically a hopeless case) and have been rounding up friends to do the same.
posted by Nerd of the North at 10:36 PM on September 18, 2017 [9 favorites]

Great video of the most recent Nazi-punching.

That one... he was actually wearing the armband. What did he think was going to happen?
posted by Justinian at 10:58 PM on September 18, 2017 [12 favorites]

Half an hour ago the president of the United States went on a shitposting tear, retweeting (among others) a "keep it up libs" meme, a train with a MAGA hat photoshopped onto it

So, about that train GIF. If you look on the front of the engine you'll see two white letters on the red body. C & N. Canadian National Rail. That's right, the train's Canadian. Because of course.
posted by scalefree at 11:01 PM on September 18, 2017 [12 favorites]

Nazis, boy I don't know .
posted by kirkaracha at 11:14 PM on September 18, 2017 [11 favorites]

I have a theory. It explains in one swoop some otherwise inexplicable phenomena that have been the subject of much discussion here & elsewhere.

First we have the persistent feeling that time moves slowly in relation to Trump, especially looking back. It reminds me of nothing so much as a black hole's event horizon. And then you have another phenomenon, the inexhaustible supply of old Trump tweets that just bend the law of probability. It's almost as if he has a time machine he sneaks into the past with to send us horrible tweets he directs at others but really apply to himself today.

Anyway, what if it's real? What if Trump has access to a real time machine (from Area 51 maybe) & for whatever reason he decides to use it to do something completely pointless & stupid by going to just a few years ago & sending time-defying tweets from the past. And it offers an explanation for the Trump time dilation effect as well. The White House time machine is leaking time.

It explains so much.
posted by scalefree at 11:37 PM on September 18, 2017 [8 favorites]

Great video of the most recent Nazi-punching.

That one... he was actually wearing the armband. What did he think was going to happen?

Watching this is feeling a little too enjoyable.

Punching Nazis > Not Punching Nazis, but I'm not entirely comfortable with relishing watching some useless shitsack with an armbard get cold-cocked quite this much.
posted by snuffleupagus at 11:58 PM on September 18, 2017 [5 favorites]

The real crime is that he had the Nazi armband on the wrong arm.
posted by Justinian at 12:01 AM on September 19, 2017 [4 favorites]

I sure wish the nazi getting punched while literally wearing a nazi armband would make the people who say, "oh but how will the antifa know who is a nazi?" to shut up.
posted by ckape at 12:13 AM on September 19, 2017 [31 favorites]

I just freaked myself out by contemplating that Washington and Hamilton both saw potential weaknesses in the Republic that could lead to the enterprise not succeeding. Washington with his dislike of partisanship, Hamilton with his idea of the electoral college being some sort of firewall in the event the country just lost its mind and elected a crazy white nationalist.

It's like following a recipe for cookies that has been handed down for generations and there's a big asterisk that says 'don't add the vanilla before folding in the chocolate chips because that's how you get a nuclear explosion in your kitchen' Or something. And because mom's gone the kids are just hey why not follow the vanilla chocolate sequence, what could go wrong.
posted by angrycat at 1:34 AM on September 19, 2017 [10 favorites]

That one... he was actually wearing the armband. What did he think was going to happen?

There are still a lot of sub-Cabinet seats open.
posted by Etrigan at 3:27 AM on September 19, 2017 [43 favorites]

> the architects of Apartheid deliberately built a whole interlocking set of policies, and that they studied regimes around the world to make it as fundamental and pervasive and persistent as possible. Then he talked about what it had in common with (and, to be fair, what made it different from) America's racial tensions and bigotry

Democrats today face similar questions as those faced by Republicans after 1960 - "the party struggled over which direction to move in, both ideologically and geographically. The party's moderates claimed that their loss had come because they had underorganized in the nation's urban centers... Conservatives in the GOP read the 1960 election results differently... Robert Novak reported on a convention of state party chairs in 1963:"

A good many, perhaps a majority of the party’s leaders, envisioned substantial political gold to be mined in the racial crisis by becoming in fact, though not in name, the White Man’s Party. “Remember,” one astute party worker said quietly over the breakfast table at Denver one morning, “this isn’t South Africa. The white man outnumbers the Negro 9 to 1 in this country.”

and fwiw...
-Clinton on Fresh Air
-The Rumors Have Been Exaggerated
posted by kliuless at 3:45 AM on September 19, 2017 [10 favorites]

Please, nobody tell Trump: Governments turn tables by suing public records requesters
posted by Rykey at 3:58 AM on September 19, 2017 [2 favorites]

Morgan Freeman warns Russia is waging war on the U.S. We need to pay attention before it’s too late.

Produced by The Committee to Investigate Russia.

The Committee's Advisory Board, which will oversee the progress of the non-profit organization, includes top influencers from both sides of the aisle including Atlantic Senior Editor David Frum, former Director of National Intelligence James Clapper, Council on Foreign Relations Senior Fellow Max Boot, American Enterprise Institute Resident Scholar Norman Ornstein, and others.

"This isn't about politics, which is why this project is backed by both conservatives and liberals and people with such deep national security expertise,” said director and Democratic activist Rob Reiner, who also sits on the Advisory Board.

“It's about a foreign invasion. It's important that every American, regardless of party, can stay informed about and understand this critical threat."

I'm still exploring the rest of their site Investigate Russia, but so far it looks like the best comprehensive resource I have seen.
posted by OnceUponATime at 4:04 AM on September 19, 2017 [20 favorites]

By the way, the Rob Reiner quoted is indeed the same Rob Reiner who directed the Princess Bride. (Among, y'know, other stuff.)
posted by OnceUponATime at 4:11 AM on September 19, 2017 [3 favorites]

Great video of the most recent Nazi-punching.
Buy that man a beer I say. And for all those of you who say No I would like to point out that this is the only language these fuckers understand.
Strutting around with a nazi armband, a punch on the nose is the least he deserves.
Handwringing on the internet will not get rid of this menace.
posted by adamvasco at 4:20 AM on September 19, 2017 [23 favorites]

Yes, he once raced up the stairwell of a hospital to prevent the formation of a Secret Police, in defiance of his own party

You're mixing up Mueller and Comey, right? If Mueller was there too, I'll have to update my diorama.
posted by petebest at 4:57 AM on September 19, 2017 [10 favorites]

he was actually wearing the armband. What did he think was going to happen?

Valentine from Stephen Miller where he misspells "Rike" adorably!
posted by petebest at 5:13 AM on September 19, 2017 [1 favorite]

If Mueller was there too, I'll have to update my diorama.

According to his notes, he was there too. He was there a little late, shortly after the confrontation with Alberto Gonzales and Andrew Card.
posted by peeedro at 5:14 AM on September 19, 2017 [5 favorites]

presented without further comment: 2017, scene 27. A newspaper in Charlottesville reports on Nazi-punching:

While not connected to Sunday’s incident, the [Alex] Jones confrontation happened just blocks away from where the man was punched.
posted by petebest at 5:24 AM on September 19, 2017

Anyway, what if it's real? What if Trump has access to a real time machine (from Area 51 maybe)

No, everyone knows he got from his physicist uncle who reviewed and analyzed Tesla's papers in 1943 for the National Defense research committee.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 5:45 AM on September 19, 2017 [3 favorites]

The best part of that latest Nazi Punching: https://twitter.com/SeattlePD/status/909843749227790336

"Police were on scene in 5 mins & found him on the ground. He declined to provide info about incident & left after removing his armband."

Punching Nazis works.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 5:49 AM on September 19, 2017 [51 favorites]

I like what the guy said afterward...'Now there ain't nothing to talk about.' (or something close to that)
posted by ian1977 at 6:16 AM on September 19, 2017

Punching Nazis works.

Sometimes. Sometimes it's a horrible tactic. It's always emotionally satisfying, though. Which is why it's so important to be careful about employing it as a tactic.
posted by Rykey at 6:17 AM on September 19, 2017 [7 favorites]

Punching Nazis works.

Sometimes.

Well, that's better than a few months back when Serious People were telling us about how it never works because it just makes Nazis mad and turns rational people into Nazis.

So maybe by February or so, when someone punches a fucking Nazi who was fucking wearing a fucking swastika on a fucking armband for fucking long enough that fucking Twitter was fucking able to fucking crowdsource a fucking punch to his fucking Nazi face, people will be done with the fucking handwringing.
posted by Etrigan at 6:29 AM on September 19, 2017 [62 favorites]

Nazis, boy I don't know .

I'm tellin' ya, Animal, these Nazis just ain't kosher!
posted by Capt. Renault at 6:44 AM on September 19, 2017 [1 favorite]

Pretty soon Trump is going to be getting up in front of the UN to give a speech. Will we get teleprompter Trump or off script Trump? How many minutes will it take for pundits around the world to proclaim that this is the day he became president? Will he notice how Antonio Guterres basically just took a giant shit on him?

The world waits with bated breath.
posted by Talez at 6:48 AM on September 19, 2017 [3 favorites]

kirkaracha: Verspotten Sie nicht unseren glücklichen Spaßführer.

dis_integration: Spotten Sie nicht unseren glücklichen, lustigen Führer

Either spotten über or verspotten, but not spotten on its own. I prefer kirkiracha's translation (with the added Sie). I'm pretty sure a native German speaker wouldn't use Spaßführer like that, but "Happy Fun Ball" sounds, to me, like a product name that was poorly translated into English from another language, so the slightly mangled translation of a slightly mangled translation here works for me :)
posted by syzygy at 6:49 AM on September 19, 2017 [1 favorite]

People who get very exercised about someone punching a guy who advocates exterminating, frex, approximately 80% of my friends/colleagues/neighbors are not going to be reliable allies. I mean, if someone walked up to me in a bar and said "I would like to put you and your closest friends in a gas chamber and kill you, along with almost everyone on your street, including the babies", those are fighting words.

It's not that people need to think "hey, punching is the best way to solve problems, we definitely ought to punch more", but if someone is wasting the internet worrying about people who openly advocate genocide getting knocked down, well, at least you know where their priorities lie.

You can't walk around wearing a swastika in Germany, and Germany isn't exactly a hellscape of government oppression - there's no real reason why people have to be entitled to do so here.
posted by Frowner at 6:50 AM on September 19, 2017 [52 favorites]

You can't walk around wearing a swastika in Germany, and Germany isn't exactly a hellscape of government oppression - there's no real reason why people have to be entitled to do so here.

You can't do it in Germany because it's illegal to do so in Germany - they don't have nearly the protection of free expression that we do, and I think that's not always a good thing.

The correct solution is a partnership of legal and extralegal means: it should be legal to wear a Nazi armband in America, but it's moral to punch someone wearing it who is - as this guy was - actively harassing minorities in the streets.
posted by corb at 6:54 AM on September 19, 2017 [13 favorites]

Thank you Excommunicated Cardinal for the talking points. I just faxed (via resistbot) a version to garbage human Marco Rubio.
posted by photoslob at 6:56 AM on September 19, 2017 [3 favorites]

Hey, I'm no pacifist. I like watching swastika-wearers get punched. But I'm also not blind to history. It's not hand-wringing to consider what might happen when Nazi assholes punch back—especially what might happen to people less privileged than (white, straight, cis male) me. It's realizing how easily tit-for-tat violence can spin out of control.

We've not seen Troubles-level violence here, and in a country where every other person is armed—mostly on the wrong side—I don't want to find out what it's like. Punch, shoot, do whatever you need to do when it's time to; just don't gleefully hasten that time's arrival by declaring "Punching Nazis works" across the board when sometimes it doesn't, in fact, work the way you think it will.
posted by Rykey at 7:01 AM on September 19, 2017 [11 favorites]

For blue state folks who want to do something to stop Graham/Cassidy, here's a tool to call progressive folks with a swing GOP senator and remind them to contact their senator.
posted by mcduff at 7:05 AM on September 19, 2017 [5 favorites]

Oh and if you are an US citizen living abroad, here's the tool you can use to call progressive folks with swing GOP senators.
posted by mcduff at 7:06 AM on September 19, 2017 [6 favorites]

Re: the punching video.

He holds up his hand at the last second and says, "No, it's fine."

What is fine? Does he mean that he feels he has not overstepped any bounds, and that the large man swarming towards him might be mistaken in thinking that he has?

Or did he see the intent in the man's eyes, and understood and even agreed that it was time to punch him, having maybe wrongfully perceived a small amount of remorse in his attacker's approach?

I maybe think he meant, "It's fine, this is the way we talk on the Internet and nothing bad happens", having forgotten that he was not in fact on the Internet but outside on a sidewalk.

Stunning.
posted by tillermo at 7:09 AM on September 19, 2017 [39 favorites]

You can't do it in Germany because it's illegal to do so in Germany - they don't have nearly the protection of free expression that we do, and I think that's not always a good thing.

After seeing the explosion of online harassment and such, I'm on the other side - we Americans fetishize "free speech" to an unhealthy degree, to the point that it actually inhibits free speech and expression for the dispossessed.
posted by NoxAeternum at 7:11 AM on September 19, 2017 [52 favorites]

You can't do it in Germany because it's illegal to do so in Germany - they don't have nearly the protection of free expression that we do, and I think that's not always a good thing.

Yes, they don't - and while this has some downsides, what I was trying to get at was that the lack of freedom to be a Nazi hasn't made everything just pearl-clutchingly terrible.

The point about punching Nazis is - and I think that most people on the left understand this - don't do it if you can't win. Use the winning tactic. If that's a peaceful demonstration, do that. If it's calling people's employers, do that. If it's punching them and knocking them down, do that. Unless you are a pacifist, which is fine, that's your thing, the obvious way to deal with Nazis is to think first and use the tactic that wins.

Also, I think that there's this weird mindset that somehow defeating Nazis by punching is going to make them madder than defeating them by mockery, the forces of the law, calling their employers, etc. If a Nazi is defeated by being punched, yeah, he's going to be mad; if a Nazi loses his job because his employer won't tolerate his behavior, he's going to be mad. If a Nazi gets arrested because Shaun King et al identify him, he's going to be mad. They're all going to be mad, because what they want is to be able to trample others with no criticism and no consequences.

Here in Minneapolis, we have an illustrious history of Nazi-punching, and it's one of the reasons that we have successfully rebuffed a lot of Nazi youth activists, who see this as a great place to organize, since at least the eighties. It's not the only reason, but I can testify from what I've seen with my own eyes that punching is sometimes the best choice.
posted by Frowner at 7:15 AM on September 19, 2017 [42 favorites]

*sigh*

Regarding the original video, YouTube now has this to say: "This video has been removed for violating YouTube's policy on harassment and bullying."

Yup. That's what that was, YouTube. You keep being you.

"The Troubles" are basically locked in at this point, no matter what we do.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 7:16 AM on September 19, 2017 [21 favorites]

I like what the guy said afterward...'Now there ain't nothing to talk about.' (or something close to that)

I think he said "now that's what I'm talking about," which is delightful because it works both as the non-specific exhortatory phrase it's generally deployed as, and because it's literally true of all of us here. Pleasing wordplay and satisfying Nazi-punching, all in one brief video!
posted by penduluum at 7:17 AM on September 19, 2017 [2 favorites]

The point about punching Nazis is - and I think that most people on the left understand this - don't do it if you can't win.

I agree with you completely - but I don't think that punching a Nazi is somehow less moral than the other options on that list, as I think some (though probably not you) think. I find the idea that firing a Nazi is fine but punching them is somehow beyond the pale to be..well, really weird to say the least.
posted by corb at 7:22 AM on September 19, 2017

If I saw a Nazi on the street, I probably wouldn't punch him because I'm a lousy puncher. Instead, I'd film him for a few seconds to get a good recording of his face, and then I'd shout, "Hey, everybody! There's a Nazi over here! Real live Nazi, right here!"

I'm no good at punching, but I'm quite loud.
posted by Faint of Butt at 7:26 AM on September 19, 2017 [36 favorites]

How Cassidy-Graham Would Make Single Payer More Likely
Graham’s weird promise that his plan “ends single-payer health care” has somehow taken hold, to the point where Republicans appear to believe it would foreclose even public debate on left-wing alternatives. The bill “stops us from having conversation in the future about Medicare for all,” claims Senator Tim Scott.
...
What could alter that internal calculus? If Republicans repealed Obamacare. It would make it easier for the left to argue that the program’s compromise structure is a failure, that its markets are inherently susceptible to sabotage by Republican administrations, and that the risk of political capital is worthwhile. And the method used to pass repeal — a hastily assembled reconciliation bill devoid of serious analysis — would make fools of the party’s Senate institutionalists. Democrats would be incentivized to pass a sweeping 50-vote Medicare expansion, with the goal of creating as many beneficiaries as possible, as quickly as possible.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:31 AM on September 19, 2017 [7 favorites]

I like what the guy said afterward...'Now there ain't nothing to talk about.' (or something close to that)

I think he said "now that's what I'm talking about..."

He said "there ain't nothing to talk about, n****"

As in, no, we're not going to discuss whether it's 'fine', enjoy your nap-time.

People who get very exercised about someone punching a guy who advocates exterminating, frex, approximately 80% of my friends/colleagues/neighbors are not going to be reliable allies.

Yeah, OK, anyone even concerned that we might be going in the wrong direction in terms of street violence is "not going to be a reliable ally." Nice.

The point about punching Nazis is - and I think that most people on the left understand this - don't do it if you can't win.

Yes, punch Nazis. But maybe a little less glee. And maybe not in ways that directly cater to the twitter-terrorists narrative the alt-right is trying to hang on antifa.
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:32 AM on September 19, 2017 [2 favorites]

I think that there's this weird mindset that somehow defeating Nazis by punching is going to make them madder

The fear is not that it makes the Nazis madder. It's that it makes the low-information Americans who hear about it scared-er. Scared people tend to seek comfort in the strong arms of authoritarians.
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:32 AM on September 19, 2017 [10 favorites]

"i have returned from the streets with peace for our time" –people who don't believe in nazi punching
posted by entropicamericana at 7:36 AM on September 19, 2017 [4 favorites]

"Nazis get clocked" is an excellent message for the low-information voter.
posted by whuppy at 7:37 AM on September 19, 2017 [32 favorites]

Trump is threatening to "totally destroy North Korea" but it's okay because it's just to the entire UN.
posted by Brainy at 7:40 AM on September 19, 2017 [11 favorites]

If Republicans repealed Obamacare. It would make it easier for the left to argue that the program’s compromise structure is a failure, that its markets are inherently susceptible to sabotage by Republican administrations, and that the risk of political capital is worthwhile. And the method used to pass repeal — a hastily assembled reconciliation bill devoid of serious analysis — would make fools of the party’s Senate institutionalists. Democrats would be incentivized to pass a sweeping 50-vote Medicare expansion, with the goal of creating as many beneficiaries as possible, as quickly as possible.

"The left arguing things" hardly has a successful track record over the last several decades. "Making fools of Senate institutionalists" is such inside baseball that I can't fathom how it could possibly impact the average voter.

And while "Republican sabotage" is a more workable, accessible angle, it lacks the punch that this issue demands. "Republicans don't care if you live or die": that has to be the essence of it. C'mon, Democratic Party, this is your friggin' moment.
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 7:41 AM on September 19, 2017 [7 favorites]

I guess I keep returning to the German model because I think that there has to be a line. Whenever you're saying "you can do what you like but only up to this point", you're going to get arguments, because different people want different lines. But as we see from online harassment and right-wing violence, free speech absolutism seems to skew more naturally right wing, because it gives more power to people who actively want to use speech to hurt and frighten, and it doesn't take the silencing effect of threats into account. So to my mind, there needs to be a formal or informal line. It's better to have everyone agree formally in words, but punching will do if needed.

My vague sense is that we have to put up with all kinds of garbage from garbage mouths if we want somewhat free speech, but that the line absolutely must be drawn somewhere around advocating formal discrimination on racial lines, genocide, expulsions on racial lines, formal discrimination on gender, sexuality, ethnicity, gender identity,etc lines, advocating violence based on gender, sexuality, sexual identity, immigration status, health, unhomed status, etc. If we're going to build a society with any kind of moral growth, we can't always be saying "let's reopen the question of whether queer people should be fired/beaten/etc because of their sexuality" or "let's reopen the question of whether women should be allowed to own property", etc. At some point we have to say that those questions are settled and that reopening them is destructive and only undertaken from base motives.

In re "making people scareder": some huge majority of white Americans thought that Martin Luther King was a dangerous extremist. In the eighties, some huge percentage of my town thought that the communists were going to invade and that there was a fifth column which had to be suppressed - and I know, because I was the fifth column they were trying to suppress for my alleged "communism" when I was ten and had no more idea of what communism was than how to build a computer from scratch.. My grandmother made my grandfather get a pistol, which he kept unloaded and locked up, because she believed that the Chinese were going to invade over the back garden fence.

You can't sit there and say "well, we'll just let this guy walk on down the street with his swastika armband, we'll just let the alt-right beat up the pastors at the protest, we'll just let the Nazis protest outside the YWCA because they want to terrorize the women of color who use it (which happened here, or would have happened except that there were many of us and the Nazis knew there'd be a mighty punching if they tried it, so they went home) because otherwise Theoretical Sympathetic White People might go right wing."

My dad does not care for antifa a-tall. That doesn't change how he votes. He thinks Black Lives Matter is kind of too militant, but he still thinks that their grievances are legit and should be addressed. People who sympathize with the cause but not the tactics aren't going to go over to the Nazis because they think that chanting "No cops, no KKK, no fascist USA" is too stroppy.
posted by Frowner at 7:42 AM on September 19, 2017 [49 favorites]

Graham’s weird promise that his plan “ends single-payer health care” has somehow taken hold, to the point where Republicans appear to believe it would foreclose even public debate on left-wing alternatives. The bill “stops us from having conversation in the future about Medicare for all,” claims Senator Tim Scott.

Presumably because it destroys Medicare -- first as a federally-directed program, by converting it to block grants that states can spend on whatever they want (including something other than Medicare) and then entirely, by eliminating those grants altogether in 2026. Can't have Medicare for all if there's no Medicare! < thinking.jpg>
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 7:43 AM on September 19, 2017 [1 favorite]

Live NYT video of Trump addressing the UN
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:43 AM on September 19, 2017

This speech at the UN is some weird shit.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 7:43 AM on September 19, 2017 [10 favorites]

Trump is threatening to "totally destroy North Korea" but it's okay because it's just to the entire UN.

Am pretty sure that the UN knows by now what a nutcase he is.

The question is, why are they letting him speak to them? What are they hoping to accomplish?
posted by Melismata at 7:45 AM on September 19, 2017 [4 favorites]

HZSF, I think you mean ACA Medicaid Expansion, not Medicare, unless I've missed something huge
posted by paper chromatographologist at 7:46 AM on September 19, 2017 [2 favorites]

One deleted, folks, please let it rest re: nazi punching. People have aired their views on this plenty in recent months, not a lot is being accomplished by another rehash.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 7:47 AM on September 19, 2017 [7 favorites]

"The left arguing things" hardly has a successful track record over the last several decades. "Making fools of Senate institutionalists" is such inside baseball that I can't fathom how it could possibly impact the average voter.

But inside baseball has been the problem. Obamacare wasn't designed like it was to appeal to voters, it was designed to be the least-worst solution to the problem that could get 60 votes, including 8-12 Senate Democrats who killed any consideration of more progressive solutions like single payer, Medicare buy-in and public option. The next time in power, those people should not be entertained for a year with their demands for impossible compromises with Republicans. Republicans should be shut out completely, and Senate holdouts brought in line with threats to their reelection and seniority if necessary. Process concerns and pleas for bipartisanship are no longer a valid argument against real policy movement.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:47 AM on September 19, 2017 [3 favorites]

This speech at the UN is some weird shit.

Someone to check to see if he plagiarized President John Sheridan there at the end.
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:48 AM on September 19, 2017 [4 favorites]

You know, Trump is probably threatening to destroy North Korea because he thinks it will distract people from healthcare, etc. He either doesn't understand or doesn't care that he's going to bloviate us into some kind of nuclear or regular military conflict.

I had a conversation with my socialist buddies back in summer 2016 where they were all "I don't want to vote for Hillary because she will start WWIII", and I was all "but Trump is evil, why do you think he won't get us into some evil war", and we let it go at that. When Minnesota virtually went red on election night, I could have cried. I just don't understand why people could possibly think, given the way American military conflict has worked historically, that the choice was ever, ever, ever between someone who would not get us into military conflicts and someone who would.
posted by Frowner at 7:50 AM on September 19, 2017 [38 favorites]

There's a small part of me that hopes that this whole thing with North Korea is a wrestling-style work between the two leaders.
posted by drezdn at 7:52 AM on September 19, 2017 [3 favorites]

HZSF, I think you mean ACA Medicaid Expansion, not Medicare, unless I've missed something huge

You're right, I keep getting them swapped up.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 7:52 AM on September 19, 2017 [1 favorite]

Trump is threatening to "totally destroy North Korea" but it's okay because it's just to the entire UN.

Am pretty sure that the UN knows by now what a nutcase he is.

The question is, why are they letting him speak to them? What are they hoping to accomplish?

TMW you realize that the President of the United States just delivered a Doctor Doom-style ultimatum to the United Nations.
posted by Strange Interlude at 7:56 AM on September 19, 2017 [19 favorites]

Yes, maybe Trump will strap Kim to a chair and shave his head and they will consider their beef settled.
posted by contraption at 7:56 AM on September 19, 2017 [3 favorites]

TMW you realize that the President of the United States just delivered a Doctor Doom-style ultimatum to the United Nations.

I have really chafed at comparisons between supervillains and 45, because usually supervillains are at least good at something. Intentionally. So I have rejected pretty much all of them.

Then Jay and Miles gave the perfect analogy on their latest XPlaintheXMen podcast discussing current politics: he's functionally Mojo.

I can't argue with that one. At all.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 8:03 AM on September 19, 2017 [14 favorites]

It wasn't just NK. He basically called for the UN to endorse replacement of the "murderous regime" in Iran, and called the current deal an "embarrassment."
posted by snuffleupagus at 8:04 AM on September 19, 2017 [3 favorites]

This speech at the UN is some weird shit.

IT'S MILLER TIME!
posted by Talez at 8:05 AM on September 19, 2017 [5 favorites]

Since we've descended into parody with Trump is calling Kim "Rocket Man" at the UN, here's Chris Elliott's parody of Shatner's Rocket Man.
posted by peeedro at 8:05 AM on September 19, 2017

There's a small part of me that hopes that this whole thing with North Korea is a wrestling-style work between the two leaders.

Trump fucked up a clothesline the last time he was involved in an angle. To correctly administer a clothesline, you need to do two things:
1) Stick your arm out.
2) Move forward.
He fucked that up. We can find no solace in him thinking that this is a work, because he can somehow manage to fuck up not starting a nuclear war.
posted by Etrigan at 8:06 AM on September 19, 2017 [8 favorites]

The New Yorker has a really good, in-depth piece up about Trump and North Korea; it was worth reading anyway, but I guess this speech kicks it up to damn-near-required-reading.
posted by the phlegmatic king at 8:09 AM on September 19, 2017 [13 favorites]

Then Jay and Miles gave the perfect analogy on their latest XPlaintheXMen podcast discussing current politics: he's functionally Mojo.

When they said that, I couldn't believe I'd never thought of it before. It's flawless!
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:11 AM on September 19, 2017

Trump is threatening to "totally destroy North Korea" but it's okay because it's just to the entire UN.

"Hans..."
posted by delfin at 8:11 AM on September 19, 2017 [3 favorites]

The VA gov race is tightening, but hopefully that means that NoVa dems will be fired up and not complacent, right, RIGHT?!? At this point, I think it's mostly about Northam's lack of name recognition, and with extra money hopefully he can plaster NORTHAM=DEMOCRAT through the northern suburbs.

It's good to see that the Democrats are moving (mostly) together, while Gillespie still has racist Stewart hung around his neck

The Va. governor’s race still hears a lot from the guys who lost the nomination fights

“Whenever I can be useful, I’m there,” Perriello said after his appearance at Virginia Commonwealth University. “This is an all-hands-on-deck moment. I was very clear with the Northam campaign and party that if I can be helpful, put me in.”

Perriello is leading Win Virginia, a political action committee that is trying to help Democrats build their numbers in the GOP-controlled House of Delegates in November. The PAC is especially focused on 17 Republican seats in districts where Hillary Clinton beat Donald Trump in last year’s presidential election.

Perriello, who estimated he covered 800 miles last weekend promoting Northam and Democratic House candidates, is on the campaign trail for Northam in a way that’s unusual even for good sports. The primary loser is expected to promptly concede, endorse the winner and pretty much fade away.

That hasn’t happened on the Republican side either. After narrowly losing the GOP primary to Gillespie, Corey A. Stewart has stayed visible — but not in a way that’s likely to help Gillespie, who polls show is locked in a close contest with the Democrat.

posted by Hermeowne Grangepurr at 8:14 AM on September 19, 2017 [7 favorites]

There's a small part of me that hopes that this whole thing with North Korea is a wrestling-style work between the two leaders.

BAH GAWD, THAT'S BARACK OBAMA'S MUSIC!
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 8:16 AM on September 19, 2017 [10 favorites]

Trying to apply Trump's Mirror to the "Rocket Man" business, and this is where I'm at:

And all this nuance, I don't understand
It's just my job, five days a week
A racket man, a racket man

And I hope its going to be a long long time
Till MAGA hats bring me down again and find
I'm not the man they think I am at home
Oh no, no, no I'm a racket man
Racket man burning out his grift up here alone
posted by nubs at 8:16 AM on September 19, 2017 [7 favorites]

Back to healthcare scripts real quick - today I am going to search through my family address book to find all of my red state family and ask them to call their Senators. Here is the script I am using (borrowing some phrases from Excommunicated Cardinal - thanks!). It is as non-inflammatory as I know how to be because I am writing to Republicans who I don't even like. Feel free to use and adapt for your own family and friends.

Dear family -

I know we don't often talk politics, and there may be areas where we disagree. But I feel I have to ask you to speak out against the health insurance bill currently before the Senate.

[personal story about our shared family members with preexisting conditions who may not received coverage under this bill]

The bill would, among other things:

- Allow insurance companies to deny coverage based on pre-existing conditions, which would exclude our family member.

- Allow insurance companies to re-instate lifetime coverage caps.

- Allow insurance companies to raise premiums at any time, thus defeating the entire purpose of using insurance to distribute the sharing of risk.

- Cause premiums to spike 20% in the next year.

- End the Medicaid expansion, costing 11 million low-income adults their healthcare.

The opposition to this bill is nonpartisan among Americans. Because it is technically an amendment to an existing bill, there are only 90 seconds of debate remaining on it. It will not get better.

Living in a blue state, I know that my senators will oppose the bill. So, on behalf of [OUR FAMILY MEMBER THAT WE LOVE], please call your senator and ask them to vote against it.

The Senate switchboard number is: 202-224-3121. Here is a potential script:

"Hello, I am [Name] from [address & zip]. I am calling to ask Senator X to oppose the Graham-Cassidy health insurance bill. We should be helping more people get access to healthcare, not fewer. This plan will make it more expensive for my family to access necessary medical care. Allowing people with preexisting conditions to receive health insurance saves lives, and that is very important to me. Will Senator X commit to voting no to protect people who need lifesaving healthcare?" [Wait for an answer, then thank them for their time.]

Please make this call today. It would mean so much to me.

Love
Emmy Rae
posted by Emmy Rae at 8:21 AM on September 19, 2017 [27 favorites]

Planned Parenthood canvassed my neighborhood in NoVA over the weekend, so they're definitely not putting off the voter engagement.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:21 AM on September 19, 2017 [4 favorites]

Since we've descended into parody with Trump is calling Kim "Rocket Man" at the UN

Wait, that was [real]? I just assumed that was a funny paraphrase.
posted by corb at 8:25 AM on September 19, 2017 [4 favorites]

Yep, [real].
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:27 AM on September 19, 2017 [1 favorite]

[real] corb. [real]
posted by Sophie1 at 8:27 AM on September 19, 2017 [7 favorites]

Frowner: He either doesn't understand or doesn't care that he's going to bloviate us into some kind of nuclear or regular military conflict.

I disagree with this; I think Trump does understand and does care. Nukes are the biggest, baddest toy there is and he wants to play with them. He wants to be remembered—for good or ill—for being one of the select few who got to play, really got to play with them.

That's why I think there's so much bluster about North Korea. It's not that they're a credible threat—though maybe they will be someday—it's that he wants an excuse to play with the neat toys.

Note: I don't actually know anything about international relations. I do know a little bit about toddlers, though.
posted by ragtag at 8:31 AM on September 19, 2017 [18 favorites]

Alleged Serious Adult Person Mitt Romney: "President Trump gave a strong and needed challenge to UN members to live up to its charter and to confront global challenges."

Everything Trump just said is essentially Republican party standard foreign policy. They all want out of the Iran deal. They all want to attack North Korea. All they know is perpetual war in as many countries as possible.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:38 AM on September 19, 2017 [13 favorites]

Also, "Rocket Man". In front of the UN. I never thought I'd see the day I'd be nostalgic for Bush and his godawful cowboyisms like "Smoke 'em out", but here we are. If you need me, I'll be crouching in the dark listening to Tom Waits with a bottle of cheap whiskey and a funnel.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 8:38 AM on September 19, 2017 [43 favorites]

Everything Trump just said is essentially Republican party standard foreign policy. They all want out of the Iran deal. They all want to attack North Korea. All they know is perpetual war in as many countries as possible.

Also, they want to make sure that everybody in the world knows the United States can't be trusted to keep its promises or pay its debts. No power but bombs for our GOP.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:41 AM on September 19, 2017 [8 favorites]

I unfortunately agree with ragtag. Trump **WANTS** an atomic war. He is perfectly, 100% content, to see the entire population of the greater Seoul region dead from DPRK artillery, in fact he wants that too because it'd give him a great excuse to nuke the fuck out of the DPRK.

Trump doesn't want to drop just one nuke, he wants to fire off dozens of ICBM's and watch the biggest fireworks display the planet has ever seen all for his glory. He wants the sheer elite joy of being the only US president to have ever used an ICBM, and to upstage Truman by using not just two nukes, but dozens, and of course much bigger nukes than Truman got to play with.

Make no mistake: Trump wants not just war, but atomic war. He is desperate for a chance to launch nukes.
posted by sotonohito at 8:44 AM on September 19, 2017 [14 favorites]

And it'll be ICBM's he uses too. He likes the big phallic rocket thing.
posted by sotonohito at 8:45 AM on September 19, 2017

Weird that both Don Jr and Kellyanne are refusing secret service but I'm sure it's just because it's invasive, right?

According to Newsweek, it has to do with the Secret Service's blown budget. It is unclear to me how much say either had in the matter. Multiple stories are reporting both. I'm sure it looks better to say you turned it down rather than be told you're not on the list.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:50 AM on September 19, 2017 [16 favorites]

Also via TPM, Where Things Stand With The Senate’s Last-Ditch Obamacare Repeal Push.

Which is of course depressing as hell. There are several apparent holdout senators, but there's 90 seconds left on the Senate debate clock to satisfy John McCain's need for hearings and debate, and who knows, maybe that's enough?

Here's the last bit of the article, though, a real highlight for me:

“I call [bill co-author Bill Cassidy] the grave robber,” Sen. John Thune (R-SD) told reporters. “This thing was six feet under. Now there’s a lot of buzz and momentum, but it still comes down to getting 50 votes.”

Yuk, yuk, yuk. And if they pass this bill, real people will be be six feet under instead. Can't you feel the glee?
posted by RedOrGreen at 8:51 AM on September 19, 2017 [11 favorites]

In light of the fact that Republicans are now creating their own "fake news" and outrage sites, I think this article is going to be prophetic in how democratic politicians will have to navigate the media landscape. First it's just the women and minority candidates who will have to deal with it, and then the white men are going to be stuck with it more and more:

Vox: Hillary Clinton’s “coal gaffe” is a microcosm of her twisted treatment by the media

The mainstream media has another trick. Remember how a Thing that’s not worth covering becomes newsworthy once it’s a Scandal-About-the-Thing, thus indemnifying the media of any responsibility for covering a Thing that’s actually nothing?

That’s prospective indemnity. There’s also retrospective indemnity. Once it becomes clear that the Scandal-About-the-Thing is also a giant nothingburger unworthy of the intensive coverage it’s gotten, the media pivots again. The story is no longer the Scandal-About-the-Thing, it’s ... Clinton’s-Response-to-the-Scandal-About-the-Thing. The real scandal is her response to the fake scandal!

Note: this is NOT an effort to re-litigate the Clinton rules, election, etc, but for the discussion of the mechanisms to get news out of the outrage-response cycle. How can we get mainstream media to stop perpetuating the manufactured right-wing outrage as something that is worthy to cover?
posted by Hermeowne Grangepurr at 8:56 AM on September 19, 2017 [32 favorites]

...and not to abuse the edit window, but a few anti-Northam ads have slipped into my Facebook feed. Lots of attacks about how he "failed to create budget plan", and he's so "lazy", with outrage on "scandals" that I never heard about during his time at Lt. Governor. I bet these same "scandals" are probably found on the front page of The Free Telegraph. :c
posted by Hermeowne Grangepurr at 9:00 AM on September 19, 2017 [3 favorites]

I don't know what U.S. politician wouldn't pledge to retaliate against the DPRK in the event of an attack on the U.S. or an ally. This isn't just standard GOP foreign policy, nor standard U.S. foreign policy, but the bedrock of nuclear deterrence. However, it's usually stated rather more delicately than our president has done today.
posted by chrchr at 9:02 AM on September 19, 2017

It's uh, not usually stated with such an eager edge to it, is the big takeaway.
posted by Archelaus at 9:07 AM on September 19, 2017 [6 favorites]

the discussion of the mechanisms to get news out of the outrage-response cycle. How can we get mainstream media to stop perpetuating the manufactured right-wing outrage as something that is worthy to cover?

I don't think we can put that back in the box, honestly. Because it's been building for a long time, and is largely a result of the death of thoughtful journalism, which really, when we think about it, only existed for a brief period of time. It's not that the news media was always respectable and serious until now, but rather that for a brief period, investigative journalists were well-paid heroes. When classified ads were found in newspapers, or when there were only a few television channels to split advertising dollars among, you could pay for thoughtful pieces. Now, the profit motive means that the news media needs to get eyeballs, and we're seeing it invade even articles that don't need to be clickbaity, but yet are.

Outrage puts bottoms in seats. Coverage of outrage puts bottoms in seats. It's not just left-wing or right-wing - we are all, as humans, really susceptible to certain kinds of stimulation. Whether the article is 'What These Terrible People Are Saying About Your Beloved Politician" or "Why The Politician You Hate Is Going Down", people will click on it. People can't help themselves.

A great example was the recent thing that went around, that Hillary Clinton "wasn't ruling out" challenging the election. I clicked on it. I couldn't help myself, even though I knew she probably wasn't considering it and this was all a tempest in a teapot, I just had to check out the possibility that she was actually considering it and that the biggest constitutional crisis of our lives might just have fired its first response shot. I'm sure that people who hate Clinton more than I do likewise couldn't stop themselves, in case she was actually challenging their beloved Dear Leader. And so that article got clicks from both sides, and got that sweet sweet advertising money.
posted by corb at 9:07 AM on September 19, 2017 [18 favorites]

Trump wants an armaments parade for next July Fourth.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:07 AM on September 19, 2017

Somehow I missed that yesterday.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:08 AM on September 19, 2017

> Trump wants an armaments parade for next July Fourth.

Yeah, just one more small step in the military fetishization of Mr. Bone-spurs-in-my-right-leg-no-maybe-left. Maybe there will be a float with representations of STDs to commemorate his personal Vietnam.

Spit.
posted by RedOrGreen at 9:14 AM on September 19, 2017 [13 favorites]

> However, it's usually stated rather more delicately than our president has done today.

Right, and this isn't just a tone argument. I mean, it is, but "tone" is basically the President's most important job. Other people do the actual work -- the President is just supposed to make it look official and boring and routine so that people don't freak the fuck out. Except this President was chosen by many specifically because his tone is aggrieved, bombastic, and incendiary. This is what his people wanted him to do at the UN, except they'd probably prefer he dropped his drawers and took a shit on the dais as he was walking off.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:23 AM on September 19, 2017 [8 favorites]

Donald Trump is the new Qaddafi of the United Nations General Assembly. There was a time when pariah leaders used the opening of the U.N. General Assembly as a platform to spout all kinds of hateful nonsense. Qaddafi, the former leader of Libya, delivered a 100-minute address in 2009 in which he described the Security Council as a “terror council,” called for an investigation into JFK’s assassination, and referred to Barack Obama as “our Obama.” Mahmoud Ahmadinejad of Iran would regularly use the General Assembly to assert that the U.S. did 9/11 and to chastise Western countries for their “obedience to Satan.” Venezuela’s Hugo Chavez in 2006 memorably also brought up Satan, comparing him to George W. Bush: “The devil came here yesterday, and it smells of sulfur still today.”

We heard a lot this week about how we would see a new, sober Trump at the U.N., but instead we got the American version of Qaddafi. Trump threatened to “totally destroy” North Korea. He referred to Kim Jong-un as “rocket man.” He said parts of the world were “going to hell.” He basically delivered Bush’s notorious Axis of Evil speech, except he excluded Iraq, added some choice bits from his American Carnage speech, and amped up the crazy. If you have ever wondered what it would be like to be represented by a wild-eyed megalomaniac—minus the flowing robes and abundant military medals—take a look.

posted by zarq at 9:24 AM on September 19, 2017 [50 favorites]

Trump wants an armaments parade for next July Fourth.

Dear President Macron,

Please have a universal healthcare and metric system parade on Bastille Day 2018.

- America ❤️
posted by peeedro at 9:28 AM on September 19, 2017 [56 favorites]

I'm just one data point but everyone I know who screams bomb them all to hell never has or will serve a day.
posted by cmfletcher at 9:28 AM on September 19, 2017 [9 favorites]

That Vox story reminds me of the time my boss told me in a performance review "When you make mistakes, I don't feel like I can trust you." There was no advice for how to improve or what type of mistakes were causing problems. Just the fact that I had occasionally made them was a problem.

Unless you've spoken perfectly your whole life and have never made an error in judgment, Fox News will find out and hound you and the rest of the media will join in. Or you can be a Republican. Those are your choices.

How to fight it? I actually read policy summaries about politicians and research one-liner "gaffes" to see what context surrounds them. When I hear a throwaway line about how "Senator X supported this awful thing once now we can't run them in 2020" I look into it or at least try to remember that I probably don't have the whole story. Then when people tell me why Senator X is the worst, I have more information than "I heard a bad thing".

As to the larger problem, that it happens in the first place, I've never watched cable news (except when Melissa Harris-Perry was on MSNBC). I certainly won't watch a group of heads yelling over each other. I have no idea why anyone DOES watch them or how to make people stop.
posted by Emmy Rae at 9:35 AM on September 19, 2017 [20 favorites]

What is fine?

I wouldn't read too much into it. It's just a good idea to say something like that if you think someone's about to assault you, both as an attempt to de-escalate the situation, and to help establish that the assault can't legally be justified as self-defense.
posted by Coventry at 9:40 AM on September 19, 2017

Rich Hall, of all people, said something pretty astute a couple days after the election: "Everything Trump says can be punctuated by the sound of a beer can opening."
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:41 AM on September 19, 2017 [57 favorites]

Trump wants an armaments parade for next July Fourth.

We already have Fleet Week in lots of cities and the Air and Water Show. Can't he just go to one of those and ooh and ahh? Something especially disturbing about him wanting to have his very own killing machine parade.
posted by dis_integration at 9:42 AM on September 19, 2017 [2 favorites]

So the pot, AKA 45, called the kettle, AKA The UN, "Bloated and ineffective." So I guess it holds true he mimics the last person he spoke to, and I guess that would have been his mirror.
posted by Oyéah at 9:47 AM on September 19, 2017 [1 favorite]

Some of our NY reps are getting arrested right now outside Trump Tower during a DACA protest - Reps. Grijalva and Guitierrez arrested along w/ NYC City Council leader Melissa MarkViverito; Rep Espaillat is there too.
posted by melissasaurus at 9:54 AM on September 19, 2017 [47 favorites]

We already have Fleet Week in lots of cities and the Air and Water Show. Can't he just go to one of those and ooh and ahh? Something especially disturbing about him wanting to have his very own killing machine parade.

Trump's already seen the Water Show
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:58 AM on September 19, 2017 [23 favorites]

Hey guys, are some of you feeling like your blood pressure is too low?

Hugh Hewitt, WaPo Opinion column: All in all, Trump has had a pretty good eight months.

(I started screaming at "flubbed response to Charlottesville" and haven't stopped yet.)
posted by RedOrGreen at 9:58 AM on September 19, 2017 [5 favorites]

Hugh Hewitt is a crank. Idk why MSNBC and WaPo give him time.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 10:04 AM on September 19, 2017 [5 favorites]

One thing I'll never understand about Republican voters is why they're so keen on getting sent to their deaths over some bullshit by a rich guy who skipped out on serving in the military himself.

It's not who he is, it's who he isn't that they like.
posted by Rykey at 10:06 AM on September 19, 2017 [14 favorites]

the President is just supposed to...

Whatever follows no longer applies.
posted by rocket88 at 10:18 AM on September 19, 2017 [9 favorites]

Trump wants an armaments parade for next July Fourth.

Will they parade past him like the soviet military did with the politburo?

[Note: That didn't work out so well for Anwar Sadat.]
posted by srboisvert at 10:31 AM on September 19, 2017 [1 favorite]

Hugh Hewitt, WaPo Opinion column: All in all, Trump has had a pretty good eight months.

Hugh Hewitt has literally no remaining integrity after his reversal on Trump. He's just another pair of thickrimmed glasses and serious mien out there to make absolute insane depravity and greed seem reasonable and serious and totally normal. Eichmann on the Radio.
posted by dis_integration at 10:37 AM on September 19, 2017 [3 favorites]

Right, and this isn't just a tone argument.

Isn't the whole idea of the "tone argument" move just to immunize yourself from people who point out that you're talking like an asshole? Or do NOT ALL people who use the phrase use it that way?
posted by thelonius at 10:40 AM on September 19, 2017

> I don't think we can put that back in the box, honestly. [...]

Maybe the solution isn't to try to put mainstream media back in the journalism box. Your comment alone provides the example that these organizations have chosen entertainment over information. Sure, entertainment gets more ratings, but human beings need a nutritional diet instead of just the informational equivalent of ice cream and pizza. HRC said as much recently—that the current media will refuse to take responsibility for the unhealthy informational diet they've created which resulted in this mess.

This is why I half-joke about the dire necessity for a highly visible American news media organization that unabashedly reports on objective reality. Because it is a complete joke to compare mainstream American news coverage with even the English-speaking international shows like Deutsche Welle, France 24, and NHK World. And it is a complete tragedy that an abundance of (investigative) journalism talent exists but people poised to take leadership positions won't put the necessary money or support behind this. Maybe they are too beholden to the idea of competing for ratings that they won't accept operating at an initial loss or a moral victory that could nevertheless shift the Overton window or reinstate professionalism as a factor in the competition. But the only winning move is not to play the game, and you'll never know unless you try.

Aside: I think it also speaks volumes that the most informative programs are "comedy" shows from the likes of John Oliver, Samantha Bee, and Trevor Noah (and increasingly, the late night shows), while the "serious" shows with more informative mission statements try to wedge the most crass, outrageous, YouTube fodder into their programming.

At the end of the day, these media organizations are run by people. Those complaining about Sean Spicer receiving an opportunity for redemption (or collective amnesia in response to what should be his tainted career) should keep in mind that the Emmys are hosted by CBS. The same CBS owned by Les "Trump is bad for America but good for CBS, so let's keep the money rolling in" Moonves. Of course he's going to put Spicer on another national stage. And this all trickles down like hooker piss to the like-minded producers and editors who choose which reports get aired. Whenever you get upset about why they gave "that person" a column or airtime, remember that there is someone calling the shots.

On a related note for all the people who just can't possibly understand how someone (e.g., congressmen trying to push the healthcare repeal through) could be so heartless, you need to disavow the notion that all human beings care about others deep down. Seriously. Stop it. Some people are just absolutely, irredeemably terrible at being human. The sooner you accept that these villains don't just exist in comic books—and that they are relatively plentiful across the various levels of our lives—the better able you are to defend yourself and others from their heartless actions.
posted by Johann Georg Faust at 10:40 AM on September 19, 2017 [24 favorites]

Christ, that UN speech. Where the fuck is Christopher Walken when you need him.
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 10:43 AM on September 19, 2017 [5 favorites]

One thing I'll never understand about Republican voters is why they're so keen on getting sent to their deaths over some bullshit by a rich guy who skipped out on serving in the military himself.

It's not who he is, it's who he isn't that they like.

This opportunism even predates the Obama racism. That obsession with military service that was so important in the Clinton years suddenly evaporated when Kerry was running against the Deferment-in-chief. IOKIYAR and it's not important if a Republican lacks this thing a Dem absolutely must have.
posted by phearlez at 10:47 AM on September 19, 2017 [22 favorites]

Right, and this isn't just a tone argument.

Isn't the whole idea of the "tone argument" move just to immunize yourself from people who point out that you're talking like an asshole? Or do NOT ALL people who use the phrase use it that way?

That's the misuse of the tone argument; the assertion that any discussion of how something is presented must be off-limits and/or an effort to stifle the speaker and a complete dismissal of the message.

The real tone argument is when folks - almost always white, most often male - give the words of a PoC a variation on if you expect us to take you seriously you need to stop hurting our fee-fees. It's a "I'm not gonna be your ally without a cookie" variant, with a big dollop of "how can you expect to be taken seriously and not viewed as a Hysterical Woman/Angry Black Man if you dare to actually show emotion about being raped/killed/"

There's plenty of legitimate use of 'tone argument.' But like anything else, shitbags will weaponize it to try to inoculate themselves and get the side benefit of reenabling other crappy tactics. Don't play into it.
posted by phearlez at 10:53 AM on September 19, 2017 [13 favorites]

Here is a series of Josh Marshall posts on the situation with Paul Manafort and the FISA warrant.

Making Sense of the Manafort FISA Report

A key detail to know is whether the warrant was issued perhaps later in June of 2016 or much later in the campaign after Manafort was dismissed in August. By my read the article is not clear on whether the warrant was issued while Manafort was still working on the campaign. The reporters say they weren’t able to learn the exact date.

When I saw this report what jumped out to me was this. Candidate Trump received his first intelligence briefing on August 17th, 2016. Joining him were Mike Flynn and Chris Christie. Two days later on August 19th, Manafort resigned from the campaign. This means that at the time of the first briefing, it’s possible that two members of the Trump campaign were being actively surveilled by the FBI over contacts with Russian government officials. That’s Manafort, the campaign chairman and Carter Page, a fairly peripheral foreign policy advisor.

Michael Flynn would later become a central figure in the investigation. But the probes into Flynn appear to have begun soon after the November election – both because of an op ed he wrote attacking a Turkish dissident resident in the US and contacts with the Russian Ambassador.

Understanding What Was Happening in Late Spring 2016

Consider a couple dates.

On March 21st, 2016 at an editorial board meeting with the Washington Post, Trump announced his first five foreign policy advisors: the one tasked with formulating policy on Europe and Russia was Carter Page.

One week later, on March 28th, Manafort was brought into the campaign with a brief to secure the delegates who would clinch the nomination. Over the next several weeks, Manafort became the dominant figure running the campaign, effectively the campaign manager. On June 21st, the practical reality was confirmed when Corey Lewandowski was fired as campaign manager and replaced by Manafort.

This is also the period when Michael Flynn’s role was being solidified in the campaign. [...]

This does not necessarily shed light on what if anything these men did wrong. The fact of investigations are not proof of wrongdoing. But it does give us more sense of how the probe began. In addition to whatever chatter the FBI and other intelligence agencies were picking up through standard surveillance, they were watching a seemingly very Russia friendly candidate stocking his campaign with people who were or recently had been under surveillance for possibly working as agents of the Russia government.

One More Point on the Manafort News

In any case, as I said, this was all known. But it wasn’t a pressing issue because Trump was just a one time real estate developer now in the licensing business who spent most of his time starring in a reality TV show. But once he became a serious presidential candidate, those money connections, all the shadowy figures and that dependence on money from abroad started mattering a lot more. When people suspected of acting as Russian agents (that’s what you need to get a FISA warrant) started showing up in the campaign – particularly – the guy running the campaign, those alarm bells must have been going off nonstop.

That is the context of what was happening – almost entirely outside our public view – in the late Spring and early Summer of 2016.

Josh notes that Manafort, Page, and Flynn have been targets of US intelligence surveillance, particularly for their connections to the Russian government. He did not, in these pieces, note that Trump's personal attorney, Michael Cohen is deeply connected to questionable businesses and players in Ukraine and apparently involved in the negotiations for Trump Moscow. Neither did he mention Felix Sater, a childhood friend of Cohen who was also involved Trump's attempts to do business in Russia.

Also worth noting is the Confederate Jefferson B. Sessions III, who had repeated undisclosed contacts with agents of the Russian government during the campaign. Senator Wyden wanted to know why it would have been problematic for Sessions to lead the investigation into Russian interference; I want to know as well because I think Wyden knows something very specific about Sessions' pre-election conduct. Sessions' former chief-of-staff, Rick Dearborn, also apparently sent an email suggesting that Vladimir Putin himself wanted to meet with members of the campaign.

All this stuff with Manafort is enraging, especially in the context of James Comey making a big deal about Clinton's emails right before election day. All the major players in the US intelligence community seemed to know that high ranking members of Trump's inner circle were connected to shady-ass post-Soviet governments and criminal syndicates, yet no one could figure out a way to make it known to the public how the magnitude of these investigations dwarfed any related to Hillary Clinton?? FUUUUUUUUUUCK!!!!!!!*

*Clip of Dwayne in Little Miss Sunshine screaming "fuck" at the top of his lungs.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 11:01 AM on September 19, 2017 [47 favorites]

I feel like I want to go back and watch Comey , Sessions and Yates again and start filling in some of the dodges, gaps, and request for closed session answering with the things that have come out since. Also, we still don't know what Sens Grassley and Fienstein got in their Comey briefing that made them seem so funerary.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 11:15 AM on September 19, 2017 [6 favorites]

Trump wants an armaments parade for next July Fourth.

For someone who hates Kim Jong Un he sure wants to be Kim Jong Un.
posted by ckape at 11:17 AM on September 19, 2017 [37 favorites]

I'm curious about how medical treatment for children will be viewed legally once medicaid is gone & private insurance is made unaffordable. Will criminal charges be brought against parents who refuse to sell their homes in order to buy asthma inhalers? Will the orphanages fill with babies that have expensive medical conditions? Will we send grown children to jail if they don't provide food and shelter for their parents with dementia?

We're in a capitalist country and apparently we give fuck all for elderly, handicapped, and poor. I'm just wondering if our laws will allow us to walk away from our medical responsibilities if we deem them too expensive.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 11:24 AM on September 19, 2017 [27 favorites]

For someone who hates Kim Jong Un he sure wants to be Kim Jong Un.

Far as he's concerned, Kim Jong Un's greatest crime is dictatoring without being white.
posted by Etrigan at 11:26 AM on September 19, 2017 [10 favorites]

This might be a good time to go into Home Remedies. Maybe start up a line of healing oils. Write a book on how to set a broken arm & stitch up wounds in your kitchen. For the truly cynical writers "Book of Prayers for various Health Issues."
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 11:29 AM on September 19, 2017 [5 favorites]

Emmy Rae, thank you for your script. (Simpler is better for me, as I don't like making phone calls and don't really want to get into an argument with a staffer. The Indivisible script is too much for me.) I added a bit about how I depend on the ACA for my medical care.

I just called my Senators (I'm in Indiana, so Donnelly and Young). I didn't need the whole script with the Donnelly staffer, because she very quickly told me that he was on my side when I paused to take a breath. (Hooray!) As expected, the response from the Young staffer wasn't very positive (she just said she'd pass on the message), but she was polite.
posted by minsies at 11:31 AM on September 19, 2017 [7 favorites]

We're in a capitalist country and apparently we give fuck all for elderly, handicapped, and poor. I'm just wondering if our laws will allow us to walk away from our medical responsibilities if we deem them too expensive.

If you can't afford medical care for your loved ones, clearly you're not rich enough to be one of the Elect. So they'll fine-tune the system to send you to jail or the morgue.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 11:31 AM on September 19, 2017 [4 favorites]

Prime Minister Netanyahu can barely conceal his warboner while watching Trump at the UN.

General Kelly, on the other hand, not quite as enthused.

So. Much. Winning.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:40 AM on September 19, 2017 [32 favorites]

Also, while I am feeling particularly mordant, I want to request a color chart from Roy Moore so I can pin my daughter down. She doesn't look yellow to me but she is half Japanese so maybe I'm just blind. It would be good to know if she is yellow or white or brown or peach because her skin color seems to be so important to the Republicans.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 11:46 AM on September 19, 2017 [17 favorites]

Will we send grown children to jail if they don't provide food and shelter for their parents with dementia?

Depends on the state.

Write a book on how to set a broken arm & stitch up wounds in your kitchen.

Where There Is No Doctor, Where There Is No Dentist, and Where Women Have No Doctor: A Health Guide for Women are handy to have around, just in case.
posted by melissasaurus at 11:48 AM on September 19, 2017 [36 favorites]

Anyone else find it odd that T went after his Saudi friends in complaining about the Human Right Council?
posted by stonepharisee at 12:25 PM on September 19, 2017 [1 favorite]

He's just negging them. "He read about it on Reddit!"
posted by wenestvedt at 12:28 PM on September 19, 2017 [3 favorites]

Can we impeach Trump if his saber-rattling endangers the American Strategic Bulgogi Reserves?
posted by delfin at 12:29 PM on September 19, 2017 [1 favorite]

Depends on the state.

Previously.
posted by Melismata at 12:29 PM on September 19, 2017

Vox provides a transcript of Trump's UN speech today.
posted by Rykey at 12:39 PM on September 19, 2017 [3 favorites]

Will we send grown children to jail if they don't provide food and shelter for their parents with dementia?

At least in Ohio, "It is an affirmative defense to a charge of failure to provide adequate support... that the accused was unable to provide adequate support or the established support but did provide the support that was within the accused's ability and means."
posted by Coventry at 12:41 PM on September 19, 2017

Alleged Serious Adult Person and Republican 3rd in line to the Presidency Orrin Hatch: "It's about time somebody talked turkey on that little bastard over there." -- Orrin Hatch on Trump's UN speech about NK/Rocket Man
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:44 PM on September 19, 2017 [1 favorite]

From Coventry's link:

No person shall abandon, or fail to provide adequate support to:

(1) The person's spouse, as required by law;

(2) The person's child who is under age eighteen, or mentally or physically handicapped child who is under age twenty-one;

(3) The person's aged or infirm parent or adoptive parent, who from lack of ability and means is unable to provide adequately for the parent's own support.

What?! Can you disown your parents and exempt yourself? I mean, I hope I'll support my parents if they are infirm, but I know plenty of people who deserve no such consideration.
posted by Emmy Rae at 12:47 PM on September 19, 2017 [6 favorites]

Filial responsibility laws, by state (via wikipedia.)
posted by Coventry at 12:53 PM on September 19, 2017 [4 favorites]

Can you disown your parents and exempt yourself?

I think usually none of these laws matter, as long as your parents are covered by Medicaid.
posted by Coventry at 12:55 PM on September 19, 2017

Where There Is No Doctor, Where There Is No Dentist, and Where Women Have No Doctor: A Health Guide for Women are handy to have around, just in case.

I made a post about these and other publications a while back. Unfortunately, many of the links were broken when Hesperian updated their site and documents.

Here's their current books and resource page. They've deliberately made it impossible to create a link to each publication's pdf file. You can read each individual chapter in pdf form online, but not the entire book. (Although anyone with Acrobat could conceivably open and save each chapter into one large file if they felt inclined.)

Look for "Read in Wiki" links after publication descriptions. Those links will open html pages to browse a publication's content. Unfortunately, they're not available for all publications.
posted by zarq at 12:56 PM on September 19, 2017 [13 favorites]

Can you disown your parents and exempt yourself?

No, the "best" part is that you can't even exempt yourself from parents that have effectively disowned you.
posted by corb at 12:58 PM on September 19, 2017 [2 favorites]

For anybody who's ever asked in an exasperating conversation with a Trumpie, "What, you think Trump's gonna look out for common people just out of the goodness of his heart?" or "You think he's gonna treat other countries fairly just out of the goodness of his heart?" ...Here you go, from today's UN speech:

"Out of the goodness of our hearts, we offer financial assistance to hosting countries in the region and we support recent agreements of the G20 nations that will seek to host refugees as close to their home countries as possible." [real]

Looks like y'all sized Trump up all wrong.
posted by Rykey at 12:59 PM on September 19, 2017 [1 favorite]

According to the right wing, requiring doctors to provide medical care to all patients is literally slavery, so one would think filial responsibility laws would also qualify. After all, I didn't ask to be born...
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:12 PM on September 19, 2017 [8 favorites]

@realDonaldTrump: God bless the people of Mexico City. We are with you and will be there for you.

We'll be there right after they pay for the wall I guess.
posted by zachlipton at 1:12 PM on September 19, 2017 [5 favorites]

ResistBot must be super busy today. I faxed my senators and it was v e r y s l o w.
posted by yoga at 1:16 PM on September 19, 2017 [6 favorites]

> John Dowd, Trump's lead lawyer, declined to say how the president's legal bills were being paid, adding: "That's none of your business."

I guess Republican donors are getting value for money here.
posted by RedOrGreen at 1:23 PM on September 19, 2017 [8 favorites]

How many fucking lawyers does Orangewig have??
posted by petebest at 1:25 PM on September 19, 2017 [4 favorites]

@realDonaldTrump: God bless the people of Mexico City. We are with you and will be there for you.

We'll be there right after they pay for the wall I guess.

Tweet says it was from an iPhone, which means it's one of Trump's aides tweeting for him rather than Trump himself.
posted by mightygodking at 1:30 PM on September 19, 2017 [2 favorites]

Aaaand another earthquake in Mexico. Good lord.
posted by Melismata at 1:30 PM on September 19, 2017 [5 favorites]

It's not so much that he has a lot of lawyers, but then those lawyers need lawyers, and then the lawyers' lawyers need lawyers, and so on. It's a hybrid pyramid scheme/full employment plan.
posted by ckape at 1:31 PM on September 19, 2017 [3 favorites]

All of Trump's tweets come from an iPhone nowadays.
posted by zachlipton at 1:31 PM on September 19, 2017 [1 favorite]

They apparently took away his obsolete Android phone, much to the chagrin of all the foreign intelligence services that had jointly and severally hacked into it, I'm sure.

And to think that there were howls of protest from Republicans when Obama was considering using his Blackberry while in office. IOKIYAR is fun.
posted by RedOrGreen at 1:36 PM on September 19, 2017 [5 favorites]

John Dowd, Trump's lead lawyer, declined to say how the president's legal bills were being paid, adding: "That's none of your business."

Actually, it is our business, if they are using campaign committee funds. Campaign committees must disclose all donations and all spending. They don't have to specify exactly how much is directly going to Trump's lawyers, but they must disclose exactly which law firms are getting how much money. It shouldn't be too difficult to figure out since the law firms working for Trump are known.

Much more problematic are independent legal defense funds. The U.S. Office of Government Ethics, newly stocked with Trump advocates, has reversed a previous ruling and now allows anonymous donations to legal defense funds. Literally, Putin himself could be funneling millions into defense funds for various Trump minions and no one would be the wiser.
posted by JackFlash at 1:41 PM on September 19, 2017 [35 favorites]

Presumably because it destroys Medicare -- first as a federally-directed program, by converting it to block grants that states can spend on whatever they want (including something other than Medicare) and then entirely, by eliminating those grants altogether in 2026.

Business Insider: Republicans' last-chance Obamacare repeal has a giant money problem

The Center on Budget and Policy Priorities broke down just how much states would gain or lose in federal funding through 2026 under GCHJ. The biggest loser would be California, with $27.8 billion of funding shaved off over the timeframe. This biggest winner is Texas, which would receive an additional $8.2 billion. In total, federal funding would decrease by $80 billion through 2026.

Coincidentally, with the sole exception of Virginia, the few states that will receive a surplus of federal funds by 2026 are ones that voted for Donald Trump for president.
posted by Doktor Zed at 1:41 PM on September 19, 2017 [23 favorites]

I've come to realize that Republicans are interested in only two things: repealing acts with ACA in their names and negotiating Russian adoptions.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 1:55 PM on September 19, 2017 [2 favorites]

>> They apparently took away his obsolete Android phone ...
> It's unclear, actually ... we can no longer tell by the device whether it's Trump personally tweeting or whether someone else is.

And to think, I found Cold War Kremlinology stupid and frustrating.
posted by RedOrGreen at 1:56 PM on September 19, 2017 [7 favorites]

Trump wants an armaments parade for next July Fourth.

For someone who hates Kim Jong Un he sure wants to be Kim Jong Un.

You know what? If this mother fucker is still in office on July 4 of next year, and I hope with every fiber of my being and with most of the fibers in yours that this will not be the case -- IF this mother fucker is still in office on July 4, AND he manages to get his pissy 4-year-old way and they give him a military parade, THEN I will fly my ass to DC and stand in the middle of the goddamn street Tianaman Square style just to fuck up his day. (And probably mine of course but it will be well worth it.)

And if he is NOT still in office and/or he does not get his pissy 4-year-old way, I will just draw a picture of me standing in front of a tank on a cake and eat it. That is my pledge to you Metafilter.
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 1:59 PM on September 19, 2017 [123 favorites]

In total, federal funding would decrease by $80 billion through 2026.

Didn't they just decide to give almost ten times this much to Defense this year alone?

hey hey look who's mug is on top of the news article! Hiya Johnny! How's the concern? Is it very?

It all goes back to fucking Reagan. Defense! Bullshit! I don't recall! Defense! Bullshit! I don't recall!
posted by petebest at 2:06 PM on September 19, 2017 [13 favorites]

I will just draw a picture of

me standing in front of a tank on a cake

and eat it

unclear what it is you're eating here
posted by salix at 2:12 PM on September 19, 2017 [17 favorites]

This is just to say
I have eaten
the picture
of me standing
in front of a tank
on a cake

Forgive me
it is unclear
what it is
I'm eating here
posted by Faint of Butt at 2:16 PM on September 19, 2017 [63 favorites]

John Dowd, Trump's lead lawyer, declined to say how the president's legal bills were being paid, adding: "That's none of your business."

If we ever have fair elections and get to have a Democratic majority again, one of the top things on our legislative agenda needs to be a law mandating total financial transparency from anyone involved in any way at all with the government. Every single elected or appointed official must forever surrender any claim to financial privacy. We need to know exactly how much money they have, exactly where it comes from, and exactly how it's spent.

Personally I'd be strongly in favor of expanding that to anyone who makes in excess of one million dollars in a single year from any source (stocks, inheritance, salary, whatever).

Money is power, and we need to keep tabs on how people with lots of it use it.
posted by sotonohito at 2:16 PM on September 19, 2017 [39 favorites]

And I mean **TOTAL** financial transparency. I want to know how they spend every cent they spend, receipts kept, scanned, and posted online for all to see. With serious penalties for withholding absolutely any information or lying.

Penalties in the range of confiscation of 50% of their net worth and banning them from being involved in the economy at a level more complex than having a simple checking account. We need them to understand that it's either letting us know how they're wielding the enormous financial power they possess, or being economically ruined.
posted by sotonohito at 2:19 PM on September 19, 2017 [15 favorites]

The story is paywalled unless you subscribe to E&E News or give them an email address, but it is sadly very [real]. Secretary Zinke is promoting allowing hunting in public lands by installing the arcade game "Big Buck Hunter Pro" in the agency's cafeteria. There's a picture and everything.

"To highlight #sportsmen contributions 2 conservation I installed Big Buck Hunter in the employee cafeteria. Get excited for #hunting season!" Zinke wrote today, referring to the arcade game "Big Buck Hunter Pro," in which players use plastic shotguns to hunt deer, elk and other big game.

The National Fish and Wildlife Foundation sponsored the arcade game, which employees will be encouraged to use on their lunch hours and other time off until Oct. 11. There's no cost to play the game.

The four players with the best scores will be entered into a tournament in October, with the winner facing off with Zinke in a head-to-head competition. Prizes will include "bragging rights" and a "beverage on the balcony" with the secretary, according to a statement from the department.

posted by zachlipton at 2:20 PM on September 19, 2017 [9 favorites]

@realDonaldTrump: God bless the people of Mexico City.

Out of curiosity, in all of the vast video library and Twitter history that has documented more of Trump's life than most people will ever experience, has there EVER been any utterance of the phrase "God bless" documented in his record before he decided to run for President? Any evidence of piety? Offering to pray for someone? Any personal charity? Just regular churchgoing, even?

I have known many evangelical Christians, and many of them have been quite sincere in their faith, but they do tend to exhibit a strain of hypocrisy that is hard to stomach at times. Not to bash Christians (many of my closest friends and family are Christians) but the brazen hypocrisy of accepting Trump as a Godly man given everything that has been documented about him in the past, and what is known about him now, may well be a defining moment in the decline of the evangelical movement.
posted by darkstar at 2:20 PM on September 19, 2017 [8 favorites]

me standing in front of a tank on a cake and eat it

Protip - the cake will taste better if you eat it before you stand on it in front of the tank. The cake will also taste better if you eat it before you put the tank on it and stand in front of the tank on the cake. Basically, just eat the cake and worry about the tank and relative positioning later, is what I'm meaning to say, because I'm confused about what's on the cake and what's being eaten at this point. But eat the cake.
posted by nubs at 2:27 PM on September 19, 2017 [17 favorites]

Secretary Zinke is promoting allowing hunting in public lands by installing the arcade game "Big Buck Hunter Pro" in the agency's cafeteria.

@infinitebarf

When we develop time travel, I'm so going back to recommend I skip all school past 10th grade because, why? I could always helm a government agency. Apparently.
posted by petebest at 2:28 PM on September 19, 2017 [8 favorites]

Doktor Zed: The Center on Budget and Policy Priorities broke down just how much states would gain or lose in federal funding through 2026 under GCHJ. The biggest loser would be California, with $27.8 billion of funding shaved off over the timeframe. This biggest winner is Texas, which would receive an additional $8.2 billion. In total, federal funding would decrease by $80 billion through 2026.

Huh, California loses while Texas wins? Let's see, why might that be?

In general, the legislation would over time move money away from states, predominantly Democratic, that have expanded Medicaid and aggressively pursued enrolling their lower income populations in Medicaid and exchange coverage. Money would move toward states, predominantly Republican, that have not expanded Medicaid. The update formula is apparently intended to distribute funding equally among the states based on their low-income population, but it ignores the facts that current Medicaid expansion covers people with incomes below 50 percent of poverty and premium tax credits in all states cover individuals with incomes up to 400 percent of poverty, while cost sharing reductions are available to persons with incomes up to 250 percent of poverty.

Moreover, the funding formula would constrain payments to the states across the board, by at least $31 billion by 2026 according to the CBO’s most recent projections.

Health Affairs blog post, linked in NPR's article Latest GOP Effort To Replace Obamacare Could End Health Care For Millions (September 19, 2017)
posted by filthy light thief at 2:39 PM on September 19, 2017 [12 favorites]

Zinke @infinitebarf

In other infinitebarf-from-Montanan-republicans news: after a horrific climate-change-induced forest fire season, journalist-beating violent thug Greg Gianforte says that the solution is to cut down the rest of the trees.

“What we need to do is get back, when we manage our forests, that is, thinning them, we end up with better habitat, we end up with more wildlife, more sporting opportunities, healthier forests, and we have jobs in our mills and fires are less intense and they don’t spread as quickly,” he says. [...]

When asked about the effect climate change has on wildfires:

Greg Gianforte: You know the climate is certainly changing. And as an engineer I know any input has some effect on the output. Man is on earth so it’s certainly having some effect.

Nate Hegyi: We’re talking about carbon emissions.

GG: Well, there were an awful lot of carbon emissions from these fires this year. The best way to sequester carbon is to have healthy forests that don’t burn.

See, hippies? If only you'd let us log all the forests until they were "healthy," we wouldn't have all this CO2 that you bitch about so much! Cheap, gross gaslighting.
posted by Rust Moranis at 2:40 PM on September 19, 2017 [8 favorites]

Manafort's spokesman says the government should release any intercepted communications so people can hear them for themselves. Which isn't that interesting on its own, but it's also a heck of a sign that Mueller hasn't flipped Manafort. I mean, that's not something you say when you're cooperating with the government, right?
posted by zachlipton at 2:47 PM on September 19, 2017 [4 favorites]

Manafort's spokesman says the government should release any intercepted communications so people can hear them for themselves. Which isn't that interesting on its own, but it's also a heck of a sign that Mueller hasn't flipped Manafort. I mean, that's not something you say when you're cooperating with the government, right?

@renato_mariotti
Rod Blagojevich said the same thing and he's now sitting in federal prison.
posted by chris24 at 2:54 PM on September 19, 2017 [42 favorites]

Any evidence of piety? Offering to pray for someone? Any personal charity? Just regular churchgoing, even?

Donny Two-Scoops doesn't even know what religion he is...

""I did very, very well with evangelicals in the polls," Trump interjected in the middle of the conversation -- previously unreported comments that were described to me by both [Presbyterian] pastors.

They gently reminded Trump that neither of them was an evangelical.

"Well, what are you then?" Trump asked.

They explained they were mainline Protestants, the same Christian tradition in which Trump, a self-described Presbyterian, was raised and claims membership. Like many mainline pastors, they told the President-elect, they lead diverse congregations.

Trump nodded along, then posed another question to the two men: "But you're all Christians?""

http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2017/politics/state/donald-trump-religion/
posted by elsietheeel at 3:01 PM on September 19, 2017 [9 favorites]

[Manafort] They can't have grabbed everything. I'll bet they're just trying to scare me. They're bluffing!
[Mueller] Vulcans. Never. Bluff.

[fake]
posted by hanov3r at 3:01 PM on September 19, 2017 [4 favorites]

VIRGINIA HOUSE ELECTIONS - HD 56-60

intro
1-5
6-10
11-15
16-20
21-25
26-30
31-35
36-40
41-45
46-50
51-55

===

56th District
Currently GOP seat
R cand: John McGuire
D cand: Melissa Dart

Mostly rural central district, 79.3% white. No D candidate in 2013 or 2015. Trump won district 56-38.

===

57th District
Currently Dem seat
R cand: none
D cand: David Toscano (incumbent)

Charlottesville, 69.2% white. Incumbent first elected in 2005. No R candidate in 2013 or 2015. Clinton won district 75-19.

===

58th District
Currently GOP seat
R cand: Rob Bell (incumbent)
D cand: Kellen Squire

Mostly rural central district, 88.2% white. Incumbent first elected in 2001. No R candidate in 2013 or 2015. Trump won district 54-40.

===

59th District
Currently GOP seat
R cand: Matt Fariss (incumbent)
D cand: Tracy Carver

Mostly rural central district, 77.1% white. Incumbent first elected in 2011. No D candidate in 2013 or 2015. Trump won district 62-35. There is an independent AND a Green candidate.

===

60th District
Currently GOP seat
R cand: James Edmunds (incumbent)
D cand: Jamaal Johnston

Mostly rural central district, 63.5% white. Incumbent first elected in 2009. R won 64-36 in 2013, no D candidate in 2015. Trump won district 55-42.

===

Next time: 61-65
posted by Chrysostom at 3:03 PM on September 19, 2017 [20 favorites]

Manafort's spokesman says the government should release any intercepted communications so people can hear them for themselves.

Don't you worry Manafort. EVERYTHING Mueller has will be admitted into evidence during your trial. We'll all hear it at that time.
posted by mikelieman at 3:07 PM on September 19, 2017 [2 favorites]

Hermeowne Grangepurr: "The VA gov race is tightening, but hopefully that means that NoVa dems will be fired up and not complacent, right, RIGHT?!? "

New Quinnipiac poll has Northam up 51-41. I think the polling average is around +5 Northam at this point.
posted by Chrysostom at 3:08 PM on September 19, 2017 [5 favorites]

Official: Hitler speech found at home of Baton Rouge man accused in two "brutal" killings of black men.

but the antifa
posted by entropicamericana at 3:12 PM on September 19, 2017 [56 favorites]

....but the brazen hypocrisy of accepting Trump as a Godly man given everything that has been documented about him in the past, and what is known about him now, may well be a defining moment in the decline of the evangelical movement.

Thanks for the laugh. That was a good one.

Evangelical Christians have been accepting and forgiving and sending their children's college funds as donations to brazen hypocritical assholes for at least half a century or more. Trump is nothing new.

The movement isn't dying. The majority of the people in it don't give a damn about their own hypocrisy and apparently only give a shit about attacking minorities, the vulnerable and the less fortunate.
posted by zarq at 3:19 PM on September 19, 2017 [16 favorites]

Oh yeah, and some of those Evangelicals also want to hasten the apocalypse.

Which brings us back full circle to their support for Trump.
posted by zarq at 3:21 PM on September 19, 2017 [9 favorites]

FUUUUUUUUUUCK!!!!!!!*

. . . IS HOW I FEEL INSIDE RICK. ALL THE TIME.
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:26 PM on September 19, 2017 [30 favorites]

Don’t forget I’m just a guy, standing in front of a tank, asking it to love him.
And also not run him over.
posted by kirkaracha at 3:39 PM on September 19, 2017 [6 favorites]

From the Vox transcript of the UN speech:

We are celebrating the 230th anniversary of our beloved Constitution, the oldest constitution still in use in the world today. This timeless document has been the foundation of peace, prosperity, and freedom for the Americans and for countless millions around the globe whose own countries have found inspiration in its respect for human nature, human dignity, and the rule of law. The greatest in the United States Constitution is its first three beautiful words. They are "We the people." Generations of Americans have sacrificed to maintain the promise of those words, the promise of our country and of our great history.

Jesus Christ, even when he's reading from a teleprompter he makes no fucking sense at all.
posted by nickmark at 3:40 PM on September 19, 2017 [15 favorites]

constitution still in use^{[Citation Needed]}
posted by mrgoat at 3:43 PM on September 19, 2017 [38 favorites]

our beloved Constitution, the oldest constitution still in use in the world today

Dude, there's a representative from the Most Serene Republic of San Marino sitting right there in your audience.
posted by jackbishop at 3:47 PM on September 19, 2017 [37 favorites]

countless millions around the globe whose own countries have found inspiration in its respect for human nature, human dignity, and the rule of law

Hồ Chí Minh found inspiration in the Declaration of Independence in September 1945 but we backed France's colonialist restoration and condemned Vietnam to 30 years of war before they gained their independence.
posted by kirkaracha at 3:47 PM on September 19, 2017 [23 favorites]

I just want this shit with the repeal to be over. It's draining me constantly. I guess that's part of their plan. But it's kinda working.
posted by Justinian at 3:50 PM on September 19, 2017 [32 favorites]

Erdogan is claiming that Trump called him to apologize for the incident where Erdogan's guards brutally beat protesters on US soil. And the sad part is, much as I have no reason to trust Erdogan, it's believable.

Oh, and Gorka's new post-White House gig is hanging out with Pizzagaters

Reached for comment on Tuesday, Tricia Cunningham, a media coordinator for the MAGA Coalition, greeted a Daily Beast reporter by saying she was doing “Trumptastic, as always!” She then attempted to steer an interview back to the group’s mission of supporting President Trump and like-minded elected officials at the state and federal levels.

Still, Cunningham defended conspiracy theories floated by Gingrich, Lockhart, and Vandersteel.

“As far as Pizzagate, I’ve traveled from Pennsylvania to Washington D.C., and human trafficking is a huge deal,” she said. “So there’s a lot of questions that need to be raised.”

posted by zachlipton at 4:08 PM on September 19, 2017 [6 favorites]

You may remember Jimmy Kimmel's heartbreaking monologue about the near-death of his infant son Billy a few months ago, and how he came away from it convinced that every family, no matter how poor, deserved decent healthcare.

Whelp:

@jimmykimmel:

Billy's helping me write tonight's monologue. I'll give our thoughts on the #GrahamCassidy health "care" bill. @BillCassidy @LindseyGrahamSC

I've been waiting for this. I hope he tears Cassidy to shreds. "Jimmy Kimmel test," my ass.
posted by Rhaomi at 4:16 PM on September 19, 2017 [36 favorites]

FUUUUUUUUUUCK!!!!!!!*

. . . IS HOW I FEEL INSIDE RICK.

Um....

...this is just to say....
posted by perspicio at 4:24 PM on September 19, 2017 [6 favorites]

You know, whether this passes or no, this is a minority of the country getting really fucking close to doing truly evil shit to the majority. I guess I'm still a little patriotic, because I think the people will eventually rise and be all Gandalf with this shit. But then again, Stephen Colbert had Sean Spicer on in a cameo during the Emmys, so idk really
posted by angrycat at 4:32 PM on September 19, 2017 [11 favorites]

Committee to Investigate Russia: War
posted by growabrain at 4:35 PM on September 19, 2017 [2 favorites]

My feeling on where the obamacare repeal is at is summed up in this HuffPo article. If Murkowski stays strong, it fails. If she flips, it passes.
posted by Justinian at 4:47 PM on September 19, 2017 [1 favorite]

Oh, and Gorka's new post-White House gig is hanging out with Pizzagaters

I mean, wasn't that also his in-White House gig?
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:50 PM on September 19, 2017 [10 favorites]

The greatest [sic] in the United States Constitution is ~~its first~~ three beautiful words. They are ~~"We the people."~~"the general Welfare".

FTFY
posted by uosuaq at 4:55 PM on September 19, 2017 [10 favorites]

Oh, and Gorka's new post-White House gig is hanging out with Pizzagaters

I mean, wasn't that also his in-White House gig?

Depends how you define hanging out. I think he did most of his Fox appearances by video link.
posted by jaduncan at 4:56 PM on September 19, 2017

I just want this shit with the repeal to be over. It's draining me constantly.

Me, too. It's also draining my strategic Southern Comfort reserves.
posted by kirkaracha at 4:57 PM on September 19, 2017 [8 favorites]

Bernie tweeted this "I honestly cannot explain why any Senator would vote for Graham-Cassidy, such a cruel bill. But Republicans almost have the votes."

I'm not sure if they really expect to pass the bill and then use the spending cuts to go on a tax cutting spree, or if they are doing some kind of kayfabe where they expect some kind of blocking tactic by the Democrats at the end of the month that they can point to and use as a scapegoat for the next several years.
posted by puddledork at 5:11 PM on September 19, 2017 [1 favorite]

has been the foundation of peace, prosperity, and freedom for the Americans

THE Americans?? For the Americans?! President Wig? Your narcissistness? It's just Americans, mmmkay? Say it with me: " . . freedom for Americans;", no - leave out that "the" . . . It's just "for Americ-" Jesus, did a native Russian speaker write this ffff- . . . ooooooohhhhh. Right, the collusion. Yeah. Mmm.

Mm. That's fucked up, dude.
posted by petebest at 5:14 PM on September 19, 2017 [9 favorites]

It's not either of those things, Republicans are evil and want to kill thousands of Americans. They do not believe in the concept of health insurance, and want to take it away from everyone that cannot pay full price out of pocket. The tax cuts are a bonus, the main goals are to kill Americans, and overwrite the signature policy achievement of the first black President.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:15 PM on September 19, 2017 [8 favorites]

The talk of flipping Manafort or anyone else leaves me depressed. Sounds good, but I'm picturing the Godfather scenario - basically, all Trump has to do is say, hey Paulie Walnuts, take the rap, do your three-to-five in Club Med, and we'll take care of your family while you're upstate. And when you get out I'll give you a Trump Tower, or the proceeds from my memoir or Ivanka's slave-labor handbags, and we'll take care of your family.

But seriously, I've got to think the potential rewards of defending Trump outweigh any real penalty Mueller & Co. can throw at them. Hoping one of you can convince me otherwise.
posted by martin q blank at 5:16 PM on September 19, 2017 [1 favorite]

Scoop-o-clock from CNN: Exclusive: Mueller team's focus on Manafort spans 11 years

Special Counsel Robert Mueller's team is reaching back more than a decade in its investigation of Paul Manafort, a sign of the pressure Mueller is placing on President Donald Trump's former campaign chairman.

The FBI's warrant for a July search of Manafort's Alexandria, Virginia, home said the investigation centered on possible crimes committed as far back as January 2006, according to a source briefed on the investigation.

The broad time frame is the latest indication that Mueller's team is going well beyond Russian meddling during the campaign as part of its investigation of Trump campaign associates. Manafort, who has been the subject of an FBI investigation for three years, has emerged as a focal point for Mueller.

posted by zachlipton at 5:17 PM on September 19, 2017 [26 favorites]

if they are doing some kind of kayfabe where they expect some kind of blocking tactic by the Democrats at the end of the month that they can point to and use as a scapegoat for the next several years.

kayfabe it is. Almost having the votes means that all the other Republican senators are protected from Trump's thugs trying to primary them, because they TRIED, y'know, they ALMOST MADE IT, they VOTED WITH THE PRESIDENT.

I'm not sure that means collaborationist nonsense should be excused, but that's almost certainly what the attempt is.
posted by corb at 5:19 PM on September 19, 2017 [1 favorite]

In one March 2015 hacked text reported on, the sisters suggest their dad's payment from Yanukovych amounted to "blood money" after protesters were killed by police officers loyal to the politician.

"Don't fool yourself," Andrea Manafort, 31, wrote. "That money we have is blood money."

Andrea Manafort later texted someone else that her father's "work and payment in Ukraine is legally questionable."

Paul Manafort's daughters had concerns over dad's 'blood money', Adam Edelman, NY Daily News, Feb 28, 2017
posted by petebest at 5:24 PM on September 19, 2017 [16 favorites]

The FBI's warrant for a July search of Manafort's Alexandria, Virginia, home said the investigation centered on possible crimes committed as far back as January 2006, according to a source briefed on the investigation.

The. Best. People.
posted by jammer at 5:37 PM on September 19, 2017 [4 favorites]

Almost having the votes means that all the other Republican senators are protected from Trump's thugs trying to primary them, because they TRIED, y'know, they ALMOST MADE IT, they VOTED WITH THE PRESIDENT.

They already did that once, they would not be trying again if they didn't think something would be different. They could've moved on to tax cuts and passed the Murray-Alexander bipartisan bill, or at least engaged with that process after Sept 30th. But no, they killed that and threw themselves back fully into the Destroy The American Health System Act. They want it to pass, they think they can get it done this time, they're not playing 11th Dimensional Chess, they want to destroy the healthcare system. Why the fuck would we not take them at their word? In what way have they earned any goodwill whatsoever?
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:39 PM on September 19, 2017 [15 favorites]

Scoop o' clock continues! CBS: Surveillance of Paul Manafort occurred during 2016 campaign

CBS News has learned that the surveillance on Manafort occurred during the 2016 presidential campaign.

According to a former U.S. official, the intercepts picked up conversations between Manafort and Russian individuals about the campaign. The intercepts potentially include conversations between Manafort and President Trump.

The recordings are now part of special counsel Robert Mueller's investigation, which appears to be intensely focused on Manafort.

Lordy.
posted by un petit cadeau at 5:46 PM on September 19, 2017 [44 favorites]

This is getting to be like the end of Goodfellas. Do I hear "Layla"?
Can I get a Lay-men from the congregation?
posted by kirkaracha at 6:00 PM on September 19, 2017 [5 favorites]

Meanwhile on FOX News.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:06 PM on September 19, 2017 [13 favorites]

"Sounds good, but I'm picturing the Godfather scenario - basically, all Trump has to do is say, hey Paulie Walnuts, take the rap, do your three-to-five in Club Med, and we'll take care of your family while you're upstate. And when you get out I'll give you a Trump Tower, or the proceeds from my memoir or Ivanka's slave-labor handbags, and we'll take care of your family. But seriously, I've got to think the potential rewards of defending Trump outweigh any real penalty Mueller & Co. can throw at them. Hoping one of you can convince me otherwise."

Trump has never followed through on a contract in his life. Anyone who believes that he'd take care of their family and pay them off is a moron. He'd rather sue a small carpenter into bankruptcy than pay a minor bill on a casino construction project. He's not going to take care of Paulie Walnuts. First chance he gets, he participates in throwing him under the bus.

Mafia and gang situations where someone takes the rap depends on strong bonds of loyalty that are built up over time and a feature a leader with a reputation for keeping his word -- when it comes to both punishments and rewards. Everyone knows Trump can't keep his word for 30 seconds in a row, and that loyalty only runs one way with him. Lot of these guys are gonna roll as soon as Mueller has a big enough threat or a big enough deal to offer them. Some of them won't because, like Rod Blagojevich, they're fucking morons convinced of their own eternal virtue -- definitely more than average in this administration. But the ones who understand the situation are going to start to roll.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 6:12 PM on September 19, 2017 [50 favorites]

This "pizza" [photo] served at Trump Tower is disgraceful.
posted by zachlipton at 6:18 PM on September 19, 2017 [28 favorites]

I've had better pizza at Midwestern bowling alleys.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 6:22 PM on September 19, 2017 [7 favorites]

Meanwhile on FOX News.

Must be a theme week - the spokesperson for the Satanic Temple will be on Tucker this Thursday.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 6:22 PM on September 19, 2017

Can the NY reps move to impeach for Pizza Crime?
posted by jason_steakums at 6:35 PM on September 19, 2017 [10 favorites]

This "pizza" [photo] served at Trump Tower is disgraceful.

Choice bons mots from the comments:

What did cheese ever do to you to deserve that?

Am I supposed to eat that or did I already?

That just soiled my appetite

That's grounds for impeachment.

That Trump pizza looks like it is going to go down as easily as his 'presidency'.

that's designed to sell more Taco Bowls

Looks the way I'd imagine Trump would look if Dorothy threw a bucket of water on him.

I don't think the person who made that actually eats food

The cheese offers more coverage than TrumpCare!
posted by darkstar at 6:38 PM on September 19, 2017 [18 favorites]

This "pizza" [photo] served at Trump Tower is disgraceful.

Egad. Remember those carefree innocent days when we thought rock bottom was the Trump martini?
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:39 PM on September 19, 2017 [14 favorites]

Republicans are losing and have nothing else to run on. They are hopelessly divided and out of step with the American people. The Crazy Freedom Caucus can block anything from happening in the House, and Ted Cruz and friends can gum up the Senate. But thanks to gerrymandering, any attempt at "bipartisan" is instantly labeled as treason so nothing gets done.

Well, not nothing. We have entire sessions of Congress devoted to Kayfabe and fundraising. They keep bringing healthcare up because there is literally nothing else to do. One bill gets defeated and they bring it up again. It's like the laser pointer my dumb cat chases around the room. Everyone, Democrat and Republican, gets to donate and say "My Senator is just the best!" (valid in primary elections only, which is what incumbents truly fear).

If Graham-Cassidy actually passed, I'm convinced it would be a huge disaster for Republicans. What do they run on in 2018?

Immigration reform and amnesty? Breitbart would start an insurrection.
Rounding up millions of families and necessary workers? Non starter.
Tax Cuts for millionaires? Good luck Granny Starver Paul Ryan
Tax Reform? So boring I forgot to vote.
National security or foreign affairs? Let's talk about Russia!
LGBT? Feminism? Race? Short term meh. Long term loss.
Moral issues? Let's talk about Donald Trump
The economy? Talk to Bernie Sanders.

2020 might be different because Trump is so crazy. But Republicans in Congress have nothing other than repealing Obamacare. As soon as they pass a law they'll have to find something else, and for lots of swing districts and Senators there is nothing else.
posted by Glibpaxman at 6:40 PM on September 19, 2017 [1 favorite]

Can I get a Lay-men from the congregation?

Testify!
posted by petebest at 7:00 PM on September 19, 2017 [1 favorite]

They're not losing.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:01 PM on September 19, 2017 [8 favorites]

If that's what Republicans think pizza looks like then it's no wonder they assumed a restaurant specializing in pizza must be a front.
posted by ckape at 7:07 PM on September 19, 2017 [34 favorites]

That is quite literally the pizza I make when I want the taste of melted cheese in under five minutes.

Step one, discard your shame. It has no place here.

Step two: smear tomato sauce on some kind of flatbread and apply cheese.

Step three: Cook for eight minutes in a convection oven. Notice it's done in five. Cram the molten lava hot disk of cheesy shame into your mouth.
posted by Slackermagee at 7:08 PM on September 19, 2017 [38 favorites]

Slackermagee, a pizzadilla allows you to hide shame in the folded-over tortilla.
posted by jason_steakums at 7:13 PM on September 19, 2017 [9 favorites]

According to a former U.S. official, the intercepts picked up conversations between Manafort and Russian individuals about the campaign. The intercepts potentially include conversations between Manafort and President Trump.

Breitbart is spinning this as proof of Trump's wiretapping claims.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:15 PM on September 19, 2017 [2 favorites]

Breitbart is spinning this as proof of Trump's wiretapping claims.

I was waiting for that. Fuckers.
posted by palmcorder_yajna at 7:17 PM on September 19, 2017 [6 favorites]

Trump using campaign, RNC funds to pay Russia probe legal bills

Are we sure he's not secretly working to destroy the Republicans? This has got to hurt future fund raising.
posted by Coventry at 7:23 PM on September 19, 2017 [1 favorite]

Are we sure he's not secretly working to destroy the Republicans? This has got to hurt future fund raising.

You'd think that but the king is infallible in the eyes of his base.
posted by Talez at 7:25 PM on September 19, 2017 [3 favorites]

Jimmy Kimmel's monologue on Sen. Bill Cassidy is really something else. "Not only did Bill Cassidy fail the Jimmy Kimmel test, he failed the Bill Cassidy test."

Jimmey Kimmel is the good one. He's no Jimmy Fallon.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:26 PM on September 19, 2017 [82 favorites]

They're Republicans. How would they find out?
posted by perspicio at 7:26 PM on September 19, 2017 [3 favorites]

That is quite literally the pizza I make when I want the taste of melted cheese in under five minutes.

Why are you bothering with the tomato sauce? Did a skunk spray it?
posted by Sys Rq at 7:29 PM on September 19, 2017 [12 favorites]

a pizzadilla allows you to hide shame in the folded-over tortilla.

*gasps, counts ingredients available, sprints to kitchen*
posted by petebest at 7:39 PM on September 19, 2017 [25 favorites]

"The news organizations might use him on round tables, but [a paid exclusive contributor job] is not happening," an anonymous executive told NBC News. The report also said the networks were not interested because Spicer lacks credibility.

As if that's ever been requirement for anyone on any of those networks.
posted by Joey Michaels at 7:40 PM on September 19, 2017 [9 favorites]

Stephen Miller Meets His Immigrant Ancestors, by Eli Valley
posted by growabrain at 7:45 PM on September 19, 2017

@realDonaldTrump: I was saddened to see how bad the ratings were on the Emmys last night - the worst ever. Smartest people of them all are the "DEPLORABLES."

He also thanked some random person who tweeted "We love you, Mr. President!" at him (standby for the inevitable milkshake ducking), told the people of Puerto Rico "Be careful, our hearts are with you- will be there to help!" and thinks lots of foreign leaders agreed with "much (or all)" of his UN speech. So basically, he's having fun in New York back to his old Twitter self.

And the Emmys weren't last night.
posted by zachlipton at 7:47 PM on September 19, 2017 [9 favorites]

@realDonaldTrump: I was saddened to see how bad the ratings were on the Emmys last night - the worst ever. Smartest people of them all are the "DEPLORABLES."

Variety: "Sunday’s awards ceremony averaged 11.4 million viewers, compared to 2016’s 11.3 million. "

Mister President, 11.4M is a bigger number than 11.3M. Is innumeracy the reason you can't run a business any which way but into the ground?
posted by Sys Rq at 7:56 PM on September 19, 2017 [45 favorites]

This "pizza" [photo] served at Trump Tower is disgraceful.

Even the trivial matters bearing this dude's name are complete atrocities. His only consistency is that everything he and/or his name touches is bad.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 8:04 PM on September 19, 2017 [9 favorites]

inevitable milkshake ducking

If you tweet "We love you Mr President" at Trump, you've already milkshake ducked yourself.
posted by dis_integration at 8:04 PM on September 19, 2017 [32 favorites]

I at least assumed we were talking about cross-country flights or ones to out of the way areas or something, but no, included in that private jet article is a $20,000 round trip between DC and Philadelphia, a distance of 125 miles, with regularly scheduled commercial flights (as in, one at the same time he left), trains, and, you know, roads. Like, some people have commutes longer than that. And he chartered a jet.

If you haven't seen the Kimmel clip, you should
posted by zachlipton at 8:10 PM on September 19, 2017 [25 favorites]

> Morgan Freeman warns Russia is waging war on the U.S. We need to pay attention before it’s too late.

Produced by The Committee to Investigate Russia.

More from The Daily Beast: Rob Reiner and Morgan Freeman Declare ‘War’ on Russia: With the newly formed Committee to Investigate Russia, filmmaker Rob Reiner tells The Daily Beast he plans to do what President Trump won’t.
posted by homunculus at 8:14 PM on September 19, 2017 [3 favorites]

The Trump Tower pizza looks like every "St. Louis style" pizza I was subjected to while living in St. Louis. Cardboard base, ketchup, topped with petroleum based imitation "cheese" product.
posted by T.D. Strange at 21:42 on September 19 [+] [!]

COME AT ME, BRO

Provel is a processed cheese product, like Velveeta or "American cheese", not imitation cheese, and it's delicious, and St Louis is amazing, and voted 55% for Clinton, and I wish I was on The Hill right now eating some cracker-thin crust, provel topped pizza.
posted by dis_integration at 8:22 PM on September 19, 2017 [6 favorites]

So I emailed my Senators (Utah) today. I might try to call tomorrow but it was late in the day when I emailed. Feel free to use this as a sort of template if you'd like. I wanted to email as well as try to call as I feel my words are best suited in detail as well as a "vote no" checkmark.

This whole thing is frustrating because as a disabled person I can't march in the streets or even have the emotional energy to be an activist as I would want. I barely am surviving the day. Our able bodied allies need to fight too!

Hello Senator,   

My name is [name] and I’m a young, disabled and chronically ill woman living in [city], UT.

  I am begging that yourself and your other senators OPPOSE and vote NO on the Graham-Cassidy healthcare proposal.

  It was not my choice to become ill and I shouldn’t have to risk bankruptcy or not be able to advance financially because of the cards that were dealt to me. Giving everyone actual affordable access and incentives for health care creates a better workforce and happier people.   

Not to mention that this bill would force people including the elderly and children off of health insurance which will surely lead to suffering and death.   

Health care costs are out of control. However the current system needs to be improved, not taken away. We can’t allow insurers to deny people like myself with preexisting conditions or increase our rates at random.   

My last surgery for stage 2 endometriosis was $40,000 prior to insurance. That’s more than the yearly salary of many people. After insurance we still paid over $6,000 out of pocket, just for my recent procedure in addition to health insurance premiums. Many people don’t have savings of more than $1,000.

  I never expected to become ill in my 20s. No one expects that. Nor does anyone expect a fall or a car accident or appendicitis. People shouldn’t live in fear for their health only because it could also bankrupt them and their family. I shouldn’t also have to worry about if I can pay for something that would help me in addition to all the other struggles I have just coping with severe illness and pain.   

Please oppose and vote no for the Graham-Cassidy bill if it comes to vote.   

Sincerely,  [Name] from [City]

posted by Crystalinne at 8:27 PM on September 19, 2017 [46 favorites]

COME AT ME, BRO

Come on, guys, no pizza enemies on the left.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:32 PM on September 19, 2017 [6 favorites]

Late nite words of comfort from Dr. Chuck Tingle:

yes i have looked far ahead on this timeline. it is not wise to give away the ending but do not fear (no timeline spoilers here sorry bud)
posted by Capt. Renault at 8:34 PM on September 19, 2017 [12 favorites]

You'll never guess who posted a clip to his own YouTube channel ranting about how horrible it is that the government uses all these private jets. Yep, it's Tom Price.

(Via Steven Dennis at Bloomberg)
posted by zachlipton at 8:42 PM on September 19, 2017 [18 favorites]

Light day in the ELECTIONS NEWS department, but one good item -- Manchester, NH does a top two primary for mayor. The incumbent Republican had first been elected in 2009, and had never lost a mayoral primary. The Dem challenger beat him tonight 53-46, including by 16 points in his own ward.

There's a general Nov 7th - there were two other minor candidates - but you'd certainly expect this to be a D pickup of NH's largest city.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:47 PM on September 19, 2017 [37 favorites]

I went the other way and put a slice of American cheese on a Totinos "party pizza." I am deeply ashamed. Also [real]
posted by thebrokedown at 8:58 PM on September 19, 2017 [19 favorites]

He went before the UN today, beating the drum of war, and this evening we have 50 posts about his place's bad pizza. This presidency confuses me.
posted by Archelaus at 9:00 PM on September 19, 2017 [11 favorites]

I went the other way and put a slice of American cheese on a Totinos "party pizza." I am deeply ashamed. Also [real]

You still beat out Imo's. YEA I WENT THERE.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:01 PM on September 19, 2017 [6 favorites]

literally every single person in this government is a terrible human being

I'm not
posted by ctmf at 9:02 PM on September 19, 2017 [47 favorites]

He went before the UN today, beating the drum of war, and this evening we have 50 posts about his place's bad pizza. This presidency confuses me.

Because this is the equivalent of an idle fucking Tuesday in this administration now.
posted by Talez at 9:06 PM on September 19, 2017 [7 favorites]

if that pizza were a horse they'd have to shoot it
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 9:16 PM on September 19, 2017 [9 favorites]

They should shoot it anyway. Just to be sure.
posted by Justinian at 9:19 PM on September 19, 2017 [29 favorites]

Random guy on Facebook opined this regarding Trump's UN speech:
the president is right on all of this..
We should have neutralized this threat a long time ago.
In what sane world do we let one mad man threaten an entire planet?

Completely. Without. Irony.
posted by xigxag at 9:20 PM on September 19, 2017 [68 favorites]

I'm not

You know, you're right. Thank you for reminding me. I mean that.

Career civil servants are victims too. It's easy to confuse decisions made by the high profile political appointees, but there's 7 layers of people below those soulless fucks who never asked for this and just wanted to do their jobs. And mostly resent what's coming down from the top, but aren't able to do much about it. Apart from heroic exceptions like today's leak of the draft refugee report. Or the leak of the energy grid report Rick Perry tried to bury. Civil servants are overwhelmingly professionals who desperately wish the elected representatives would just allow them to fulfill the statutory missions they thought they were signing up for. But that's not currently the world we live in when the very idea of civil service and the government's ability to solve problems on any level is under direct assault from the Republican President and Republican majority.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:35 PM on September 19, 2017 [40 favorites]

Trump is a well-known defiler of New York City pizza; see also Jon Stewart's gloriously righteous meltdown on him and Palin for eating Famous Famiglia pizza... with a KNIFE and FORK.
posted by Rhaomi at 9:36 PM on September 19, 2017 [12 favorites]

And the Emmys weren't last night.

You say that as if time still holds any meaning.
posted by ckape at 10:15 PM on September 19, 2017 [34 favorites]

literally every single person in this government is a terrible human being

Nor me.

Career civil servants are victims too.

It really sucks; as you say, we just want to do our jobs, and do right by the American people. It's humiliating to be represented by such partisan bullshitters, who can't even try to pretend they're working in the public interest.
posted by suelac at 10:15 PM on September 19, 2017 [27 favorites]

Mister President, 11.4M is a bigger number than 11.3M. Is innumeracy the reason you can't run a business any which way but into the ground?

Facts don't matter to him. What matters is what he wants to be true. He wants things to be true because he wanted them to be true. And then if he needs them to be false later on they should & there's no contradiction because both times things were the way he needed them to be at the time.
posted by scalefree at 10:17 PM on September 19, 2017 [3 favorites]

I went the other way and put a slice of American cheese on a Totinos "party pizza." I am deeply ashamed. Also [real]

There is no dishonor in doctoring a Totinos party pizza. You do what you have to do.
posted by homunculus at 10:25 PM on September 19, 2017 [8 favorites]

Everyone loves Totinos
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 10:31 PM on September 19, 2017 [10 favorites]

Facts don't matter to him. What matters is what he wants to be true. He wants things to be true because he wanted them to be true. And then if he needs them to be false later on they should & there's no contradiction because both times things were the way he needed them to be at the time.

If only he were just a ridiculous Lewis Carroll character.
posted by droplet at 11:18 PM on September 19, 2017 [8 favorites]

if that pizza were a horse they'd have to shoot it

Why? It's already glue.
posted by loquacious at 11:46 PM on September 19, 2017 [17 favorites]

In the neverending stream of offal pouring forth from him, an especially fetid morsel in his tweet stood out to me: I was saddened to see how bad the ratings were on the Emmys last night - the worst ever. Smartest people of them all are the "DEPLORABLES."(emphasis mine).

Does he think the Emmy awards go to smart people, that it is a recognition of intelligence? Is he just projecting all his fears of inadequacy randomly again ("They think they're so smart, with all their book-learning and logic and knowledge about the real world and looks and talent and wealth")? Is he consoling his base that it is okay that they are not the "smart ones"?

On a side note, I would give everything I have to know how much of his world-view is self-delusion and how much is his handlers lying to him to keep his mood up (as mentioned above, the viewer numbers for the show went up, not down in comparison with the previous year).
posted by PontifexPrimus at 1:15 AM on September 20, 2017 [1 favorite]

That UN speech... KJU is like the bully that brought a flick knife to school, and Trump is the supposed adult yelling 'LET'S GET READY TO RUUUUUMBBLLLLLEEEEEE!!!!

Does he realise the UN isn't wrestlemania?'
posted by adept256 at 1:26 AM on September 20, 2017 [1 favorite]

hot disk of cheesy shame

If I ever start a band, I'm stealing this for our first album title.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 1:35 AM on September 20, 2017 [11 favorites]

@GothamGirlBlue
I have come to the inescapable conclusion that peace makes people stupid. Soon you start to believe that bad things *can't* happen. I think about Trump's appeal to the black community during the campaign: "What do you have to lose?" Because we know what loss is. We know what it means not to be able to find work despite our education; we know what it is to see our children suffer. So much of our political establishment has simply not suffered enough. They live lives of peace, and imagine it will last forever. "What's the worst that could happen?" is like a line in a movie, where challenges are always overcome by the heroes. To them, the idea that nukes could be used again is preposterous. It just *wouldn't* happen. It's not a real risk to them. It's why so many reporters are waiting for a pivot that will never come. Trump must be shaped into what the President is, right? The GOP wouldn't *really* gut Medicare and Medicaid. They wouldn't *really* harm millions of Americans. Too much peace screws with your brain. You start thinking progress is inevitable; you think you're different from everyone else. History, to many people, is like a collection of folk stories. Things were bad but the heroes won and now we're all happy. To reckon that the same things that animated the villains can live within us, that they can animate us, because we're both human is a radical notion to many people. History is a closed book. The story began and ended. The world starts fresh with us.

That's why we're here assuming that the story will turn out OK. It always has before, right? History, to the peace-fed, is inevitable. But I've got bad news: we are as every empire has been upon the Earth. And eventually, our time will end. *That's* inevitable. It can die with violence and rebellion. It can die from arrogance and hubris. It can die from malice or apathy. It can die without us. What I fear now, what history has taught me, is that our empire can die in a halo of fire. It can salt the earth with radiation. This has been our truth since Hiroshima and Nagasaki. From that time, we have trusted Presidents to prevent it. Until peace rotted our brains out. Trump's comments on nuclear proliferation barely dented the cycle; they drew little attention. For a press that could maintain laser-like focus on server maintenance, it was a stunning oversight. Because history is inevitable. Because they thought the worst could never come to pass, they never entertained the worst-case scenario. They still don't. Our information infrastructure never condensed issues down in a way the public could understand and refused to direct our focus.

32 minutes. That was the amount of time spent on healthcare, on nukes, on foreign policy, on economics, on climate change, on children. When peace rots you, politics is about entertainment. They'll never *really* hurt people, so it's just about the flavor you prefer. So we had thousands of words and hundreds of minutes devoted to where the former Secretary of State kept her correspondence. And we had thousands of words and hundreds of minutes spent normalizing the demagoguery of a Know-Nothing anti-immigration reality star. Every minute we didn't spend on the issues is made up in hours. Hours of cleaning up Houston and worrying about North Korea. Hours of tutoring children at home and in afterschool programs because we didn't invest in their education. Hours of calling representatives to preserve our meager health benefits, to keep the lack of wealth from murdering us with disease. Hours spent marching for justice because our apparatus for it is run by a white supremacist who was defended by all-white colleagues. HISTORY IS NOT INEVITABLE. Peace is not permanent. It can be shattered by bad choices and damaged with poor investment. Don't let your vision of the world come through the lens of your own peace. You won't see war until it is too late to stop it. /fin
posted by chris24 at 3:45 AM on September 20, 2017 [173 favorites]

Rob Reiner and Morgan Freeman Declare ‘War’ on Russia: With the newly formed Committee to Investigate Russia, filmmaker Rob Reiner tells The Daily Beast he plans to do what President Trump won’t.

I am totally down with this so apologies for the workshop comment but dudes you could have skipped the close up of the eagle looking directly at the camera. [real]
posted by A Terrible Llama at 4:02 AM on September 20, 2017 [4 favorites]

Does he realise the UN isn't wrestlemania?

Rump sees the entire world through wrestlemania-tinted glasses, so that would be No.
posted by flabdablet at 5:11 AM on September 20, 2017

chris24, please tell me that well-done screed was not originally macerated through twitter.
posted by petebest at 5:19 AM on September 20, 2017 [8 favorites]

When peace rots you, politics is about entertainment. They'll never *really* hurt people, so it's just about the flavor you prefer.

QFMFT. And there will still be people who stay home or vote third party in 2020.
posted by Rykey at 5:20 AM on September 20, 2017 [13 favorites]

They'll never *really* hurt people that I care about, so it's just about the flavor you prefer.

Fixed it.

The difference between a liberal and a conservative is the size and composition of that "people that I care about" subset.
posted by delfin at 5:38 AM on September 20, 2017 [11 favorites]

n.b. ❄️Mama Snowflake ❄️️‏ @northeast_mama Sep 18

Just called Lisa Murkowski's office & was told they WELCOME calls from those outside the state.

Please call! 202.224.6665 #GrahamCassidy

posted by Doktor Zed at 5:38 AM on September 20, 2017 [40 favorites]

Reporting from the field that the reassuring nature of Roger Waters always being politically (and in all other ways) unsubtle and exactly what he says on the tin went down gangbusters here in Pittsburgh last night, and the crowd was the most enthusiastic it had been all night during the overtly Trump-bashing Animals-heavy second set. To a degree that surprised even me, since we keep hearing about people going to see Waters and apparently being unaware that he's a pinko ahead of time. It felt surprisingly validating.

Anyway, A+, would spectate again, and it was commentary in this thread that prompted me to buy tickets, so thanks!
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:41 AM on September 20, 2017 [28 favorites]

Everybody's a critic... the DPRK's news service tweets this in response to yesterday's speech at the U.N.: "Impotent threats by international shouting magnate Donald Trump are dismissed, as the twitchings of a Dog licking its flea-riddled scrotum."
posted by MonkeyToes at 5:50 AM on September 20, 2017 [13 favorites]

@DPRK_News is a parody account.
posted by Roommate at 5:53 AM on September 20, 2017 [5 favorites]

Nuts.
posted by petebest at 5:55 AM on September 20, 2017 [3 favorites]

Ah, sorry about that--thanks, Roommate!
posted by MonkeyToes at 6:02 AM on September 20, 2017 [1 favorite]

Arguably, so is @realDonaldTrump. There's not much difference any more.
posted by delfin at 6:14 AM on September 20, 2017 [13 favorites]

OTOH, "international shouting magnate" is pretty good...
posted by MonkeyToes at 6:16 AM on September 20, 2017 [22 favorites]

chris24, please tell me that well-done screed was not originally macerated through twitter.

'Tis the stormiest of tweetstorms.
posted by chris24 at 6:20 AM on September 20, 2017 [3 favorites]

NYT with Patrik Hermansson of Hope Not Hate:
Undercover With the Alt-Right

I can't find a direct link for the undercover video taken of Greg Johnson, embedded in the middle of the article (not the video at top), but what Johnson says to Hermansson is almost word-for-word the setup for Gilead in The Handmaids Tale. Eugenics, sterilization of undesirables, no birth control, expulsion of American Jews to Israel, on and on. And he hands him some typed document to peruse. It's like....want to join us, future-Commander Hermansson?

This is probably FPP worthy, but I'm just sitting here slack-jawed.
posted by snuffleupagus at 6:24 AM on September 20, 2017 [38 favorites]

'Tis the stormiest of tweetstorms.

bert_facepalm

Are you kids on dope?!
posted by petebest at 6:25 AM on September 20, 2017 [2 favorites]

Here's the Greg Johnson clips on YT via Hope Not Hate. Pull it up on YT, they have it segmented into a playlist.

There's going to be a documentary: My Year in Kekistan.
posted by snuffleupagus at 6:33 AM on September 20, 2017 [15 favorites]

Are you kids on dope?!

no
(some say that's the problem)
posted by entropicamericana at 6:34 AM on September 20, 2017 [4 favorites]

chris24: I have come to the inescapable conclusion that peace makes people stupid.

Stability breeds complacency, not just in politics and peace. If you don't need to fight to maintain something, be it a basic standard of living, a functioning democracy, or wide-spread illnesses, you can take things for granted. "Sure, we'll always have safe water, reliable electricity and paved roads, that's a non-question." Or "They're the same, both war-mongers who get paid by big corporations." Or "Vaccines aren't necessary, and might even make things worse."

No, No and No. Except what's the danger, everything is safe now?

The only certainty is entropy. Stability requires work, and when that work is so standardized as to minimize the public view of those costs and efforts, it's all the easier to write off those costs. "Sure, let's cut infrastructure and health care budgets, we really need to gear up for the impending war(s)!" say the actual war hawks, forgetting they got to the press conference on public roads, and their message gets out because the electrical grid is reliably maintained.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:05 AM on September 20, 2017 [27 favorites]

Guys, I'm going to call horrible weasel man Sen. Roy Blunt's office later this morning about Graham-Cassidy. Pray for me.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 7:16 AM on September 20, 2017 [30 favorites]

I resistbot-ed poopie-heads Joni Ernst and Chuck Grassley yesterday, and boy, was the bot not handling things well. It took 4 or 5 attempts over a few hours. I eventually got it to send a message but after looking at the preview it sent, it looks like it merged a couple of my attempts into 1 message.

Just something to be aware of.
posted by ArgentCorvid at 7:24 AM on September 20, 2017 [1 favorite]

NPR is doing a spectacularly shitty job of stressing the concern about the Graham-Cassidy plan on the whole. For instance, How Rick Santorum Got A Haircut And Revived The GOP's Obamacare Repeal Effort, on how Rick happened to get a haircut at the Capitol barbershop at the same time as Lindsey Graham, and at that moment Rick brought up his idea that basically became the Graham-Cassidy plan. Yes, it's interesting to read how this iteration of the GOP Doesn't Give a Fuck About Your Health Care plan came to be, but the only mention of how bad it is comes from a somewhat random link towards the end: Read a full analysis of the bill from NPR's Alison Kodjak here.

That link is titled "Latest GOP Effort To Replace Obamacare Could End Health Care For Millions," which actually emphasizes the terrible "features" of the latest plan.

But then there was the interview with Sen. James Lankford (R-OK), about possibly closing the embassy in Havana, and then Mary Louise Kelly asks about his vote on the Graham-Cassidy plan, without rebuttal. So he got to say "I do support it, it's a unique proposal that asks if states can take better care of their people," without being asked "why do you support increasing out-of-pocket costs and weakening or eliminating protections for people living with pre-existing conditions?"

And somehow the battle is summed up as a conflict between people who will have their health care taken away vs Republican voters who will be angry, as if that calculation is somehow hard to make. Hmm, bankruptcy and death due to an expensive yet manageable disease or ailment, or some angry voters? (These last two links are audio-only at the moment, but transcripts will go up later today.)
posted by filthy light thief at 7:29 AM on September 20, 2017 [9 favorites]

NPR is doing a spectacularly shitty job

nic_cage_youdontsay.jpg
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:34 AM on September 20, 2017 [25 favorites]

Rick happened to get a haircut at the Capitol barbershop at the same time as Lindsey Graham, and at that moment Rick brought up his idea that basically became the Graham-Cassidy plan

~~Darkest~~ stupidest timeline
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 7:35 AM on September 20, 2017 [6 favorites]

His only consistency is that everything he and/or his name touches is bad.

The Trumpist Touch.
posted by notyou at 7:38 AM on September 20, 2017

Is a Santorum haircut a, y'know, a thing? You can just say yes/no, because I'm not googling it.
posted by petebest at 7:38 AM on September 20, 2017 [2 favorites]

This article (linked above) clearly describes how young white men are being radicalized online something something terrorism something something beam in our own eye
posted by prefpara at 7:39 AM on September 20, 2017 [3 favorites]

Jesus fucking Christ Santorum has the brainpower of really stupid dust and we threw his ass out of office in PA over a decade ago, why the fuck is he still ruining my life?!
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 7:50 AM on September 20, 2017 [38 favorites]

‘It’s gonna end with concentration camps’: Alt-right executive boasts of a future Europe with Hitler on their money.
Jorjani also claimed to have connections within the Trump administration, and to even have spoken to the president himself.
posted by adamvasco at 7:53 AM on September 20, 2017 [6 favorites]

I have come to the inescapable conclusion that peace makes people stupid.

I am, for the first time in my life, worried that the president will decide to nuke somebody, and he won't be stopped.

Beyond the very real horrors of millions dying as a result, I am also worried that millions of white Americans will look on this with a shrug and say, "Well, you knew he was gonna do that." Normalization of mushroom clouds.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 8:01 AM on September 20, 2017 [8 favorites]

Cillizzas Gonna Cillizza:

"Righteous many." "Wicked few." A MUCH more poetic speech than Trump usually gives.

Where's that meteor when you really need it?
posted by tonycpsu at 8:04 AM on September 20, 2017 [1 favorite]

If only there was some way to communicate the horrors of nuclear weapons, or the rank insanity of our bewigged orange yellpot.

You know to lots of people at once. Somehow.
posted by petebest at 8:04 AM on September 20, 2017

These fuckers don't know or care what's in the bill.

Axios: Repeal first, ask questions later

The repeal-and-replace bill sponsored by Sens. Lindsey Graham and Bill Cassidy is gaining steam because it has the appearance of gaining steam — not because of the changes it would make. "If there was an oral exam on the contents of the proposal, graded on a generous curve, only two Republicans could pass it. And one of them isn't Lindsey Graham," a senior GOP aide told Caitlin.

Vox: GOP senators are rushing to pass Graham-Cassidy. We asked 9 to explain what it does

The GOP senators insisted that the tens of billions in cuts to federal health spending proposed in the bill would not result in coverage losses because, they said, the states would have more flexibility. “They can do it with less money,” said Sen. Jim Inhofe (R-OK), who was unable to explain how or why.

Other Republican senators, meanwhile, fell back on political explanations for a bill that experts warn could result in millions losing their insurance. “If we do nothing, it has a tremendous impact on the 2018 elections,” said Sen. Pat Roberts (R-KS). “And whether or not Republicans still maintain control and we have the gavel.”

But a new independent study came out that shows just how bad it will be. Not CBO, but probably the best we'll get.

WaPo: This new study deals a blow to Trump’s latest Obamacare repeal push

But as the new study shows, because of the bill’s funding formula, a lot of states will end up with substantially less federal money to spend on health-care coverage than they would have under current law. In the period from 2020 to 2026, overall the bill will mean a $215 billion cut to federal spending.

How is that $215b split? In states with R senators:

- Arizona would get $11 billion less
- Alaska would get $1 billion less
- Ohio would get $9 billion less
- Maine would get $1 billion less
- West Virginia would get $1 billion less
- Colorado would get $6 billion less
- Pennsylvania would get $6 billion less
- Florida would get $4 billion less

And that's just through 2026. "According to the Avalere study, if you factor in the total cuts under Graham-Cassidy from 2020 to 2036 — including 10 years after the block grants expire — that means a $14 billion cut to Alaska; a $133 billion cut to Arizona; a $161 billion cut to Ohio; a $17 billion cut to Maine; and a $27 billion cut to West Virginia."
posted by chris24 at 8:05 AM on September 20, 2017 [28 favorites]

Calling both of my senators' offices this afternoon. No hope for McConnell, but I'll give a righteous earful of "your first loyalty must be to the constituents who elected you, and this is stealing money from the state you represent" to both of them (I am still unclear on whether my telling Rand Paul how much this bill sucks counts in his this-is-not-cruel-enough worldview as a point in favor of or against it).
posted by jackbishop at 8:13 AM on September 20, 2017 [6 favorites]

snuffleupagus: NYT with Patrik Hermansson of Hope Not Hate

During his time undercover, he ... attended gatherings where extremists drank mead from a traditional Viking horn and prayed to the Norse god Odin.

Fuckin' Nazis are going to ruin LARPing. Assholes.
posted by hanov3r at 8:14 AM on September 20, 2017 [12 favorites]

Pat Roberts, R-KS, from that Vox article: If we do nothing, I think it has a tremendous impact on the 2018 elections. And whether or not Republicans still maintain control and we have the gavel.
(snip)
Look, we’re in the back seat of a convertible being driven by Thelma and Louise, and we’re headed toward the canyon...So we have to get out of the car, and you have to have a car to get into, and this is the only car there is.

I simply don't understand how Republicans think their electoral chances will be better once their constituents realize they've just lost their health coverage.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 8:14 AM on September 20, 2017 [14 favorites]

But what the f does that mean?

"I have decided to just lie on camera because we're not allowed to go on TV and say 'kill the poor' yet."
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:15 AM on September 20, 2017 [8 favorites]

I was just posting that VOX article, it is really astonishing reading. The GOP Senators interviewed (with the possible exception of Cruz) come off as hopelessly deluded and befuddled. They're obviously repeating talking points with no idea of how the bill actually works or the consequences.

Pat Roberts: Look, we’re in the back seat of a convertible being driven by Thelma and Louise, and we’re headed toward the canyon. That’s a movie that you’ve probably never seen —
[...]So we have to get out of the car, and you have to have a car to get into, and this is the only car there is.

John Kennedy: I think it’s an improvement over Obamacare, but I have sent four amendments to Lindsey [Graham] and Bill [Cassidy] that I think will strengthen the bill. The one I feel most strongly about is that I want the Medicaid work requirement — I don’t want it to be optional; I want it to be a requirement. Just like we did with welfare reform.
And number two, I want to get us to give guardrails to the states to say, “You cannot use these moneys to set up a state-run single-payer system.” I don’t believe in it. I think it’s a mistake.

John Barrasso: It gets the money out of Washington, lets people at home make the decision, and gets state legislatures involved, and governors involved. It moves money out of Washington. It’s away from socialism.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 8:16 AM on September 20, 2017 [9 favorites]

> This is getting to be like the end of Goodfellas. Do I hear "Layla"?

I can only hope so, because keeping up with everything between January 20th and today has been like the Ray Liotta coked-out-of-his-gourd-and-falling-apart sequence.
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:17 AM on September 20, 2017 [11 favorites]

Yeah, that Pat Roberts back-and-forth is crazypants. Senators actually say, "Yeah, this doesn't actually help anyone, but this is our last chance to do it, so we will." now?
posted by jackbishop at 8:17 AM on September 20, 2017 [1 favorite]

> I simply don't understand how Republicans think their electoral chances will be better once their constituents realize they've just lost their health coverage.

"Look over there! A war!"
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:18 AM on September 20, 2017 [17 favorites]

May a bighorn ram butt John Barasso in the nuts forever.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 8:18 AM on September 20, 2017 [2 favorites]

Fuckin' Nazis are going to ruin LARPing. Assholes.

And mead!
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:18 AM on September 20, 2017 [8 favorites]

I simply don't understand how Republicans think their electoral chances will be better once their constituents realize they've just lost their health coverage.

Conservatives hate minorities more than they like having access to healthcare. See also: The last Kentucky governor's election.
posted by dirigibleman at 8:23 AM on September 20, 2017 [9 favorites]

a $133 billion cut to Arizona

Which is why it is so strange that Arizona Governor Ducey approves of this bill. If you recall, John McCain was saying he would depend on the Ducey's stance on the bill to decide how he, McCain, would vote.

May a bighorn ram butt John Barasso in the nuts forever

I quoted his answer because it was so crazy to me. DC-provided healthcare is Socialism but state-provided healthcare is not?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 8:24 AM on September 20, 2017 [15 favorites]

Yeah, I get there are racial angles to killing the ACA. Totally get that. If Republicans could somehow limit the ACA to "only white people," they'd do it in a heartbeat and they'd all love it and praise it forever. But that kind of thinking is more the crazification factor and not encompassing the whole party (as voters, not just the politicians). What I'm saying is I don't see how they think this is gonna get them to 50%+1 of the vote in their states and districts in 2018. Because at that point, their white constituents are still going to be freshly angry that they can't afford healthcare.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 8:26 AM on September 20, 2017

State provided health care won't be socialism because under the Graham-Cassidy plan the states won't have the resources to provide health care.
posted by notyou at 8:27 AM on September 20, 2017 [17 favorites]

And number two, I want to get us to give guardrails to the states to say, “You cannot use these moneys to set up a state-run single-payer system.” I don’t believe in it. I think it’s a mistake.

I really don't understand how senators/representatives get away with imposing their own personal beliefs on their constituents when those constituents light up phone lines and fax machines stating that they want the opposite of those beliefs. Then again, I really don't understand how any of these people get away with anything anymore.
posted by Servo5678 at 8:30 AM on September 20, 2017 [17 favorites]

Remember how the last bill was, when you scratched the surface, a tax cut rather than a functioning health care bill? That's what Graham-Cassidy is, except replace "tax cut" with "attack on the very concept of federalism and the place of the federal government". It's a gigantic "states' rights" middle finger that's designed to re-energize the racists who might have put away their swastikas and hoods and MAGA hats after one of them took a knuckle to the dome.
posted by Etrigan at 8:32 AM on September 20, 2017 [18 favorites]

VOX Jimmy Kimmel: new Obamacare repeal bill flunks the Jimmy Kimmel Test has a rundown of Kimmel's monologue that was linked to by T.D. Strange but also this response from Bill Cassidy:

We have a September 30 deadline on our promise. Let’s finish the job,” he said in a statement provided by his office. “We must because there is a mother and father whose child will have insurance because of Graham Cassidy Heller Johnson. There is someone whose pre-existing condition will be addressed because of GCHJ.”

“I dedicated my medical career to care for such as these,” Cassidy said. “This is why GCHJ must pass."

Which makes me so angry, I'm gnashing my molars. Up is down and cutting billions from HC increases coverage.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 8:33 AM on September 20, 2017 [27 favorites]

“We must because there is a mother and father whose child will have insurance because of Graham Cassidy Heller Johnson. There is someone whose pre-existing condition will be addressed because of GCHJ.”

Is that so? Then by all means, Senator, bring them forward and let them speak.
posted by Faint of Butt at 8:36 AM on September 20, 2017 [8 favorites]

I really don't understand how senators/representatives get away with imposing their own personal beliefs on their constituents when those constituents light up phone lines and fax machines stating that they want the opposite of those beliefs.

Even worse he's not imposing his beliefs on his constituents, but those in NY and CA. States rights! ...unless I don't like it.
posted by chris24 at 8:36 AM on September 20, 2017 [18 favorites]

Is that so? Then by all means, Senator, bring them forward and let them speak.

Be careful with this. There are people who *might* benefit from GCHJ. These people are in red states that didn't accept Medicaid expansion. There are lower middle class people who earn too much for old Medicaid but not enough for subsidies in the individual market. If a red state, who didn't expand Medicaid, takes the money and turns Medicaid into a high deductible catastrophic coverage for all then yes, those people will be ever so slightly better off.

So yes, he could probably present them. And he would portray them as those who Obamacare "forgot". Nevermind the GOP governor who fucked it all up. Obamacare should have been built on the assumptions that Republicans would try to sabotage it.
posted by Talez at 8:40 AM on September 20, 2017 [16 favorites]

GCHJ?

Haha, WTF Bill Cassidy is doing everything he can in that statement to spread the blame.

Hey Senator, here's an easy way to clear away the stink: Vote "Nay."
posted by notyou at 8:42 AM on September 20, 2017 [2 favorites]

'Righteous many.' 'Wicked few.' A MUCH more poetic speech than Trump usually gives.

"Losers." "Rocket man." Not so poetic.
posted by kirkaracha at 8:45 AM on September 20, 2017 [5 favorites]

I called Senator Gardner's Denver office and couldn't even get a connection. I was able to get his voice mail at his D.C. Office, but I don't know how much those count compared to speaking to an actual person. But I'm guessing my inability to even get through to the local office indicates they're getting swamped. And probably that they're understaffed because who wants to spend money to hear demands from yucky plebs.

But the fact that I called at all - holy shit. I don't order a fucking pizza if I can't do so online, such is my phone phobia. I don't think I had a chance in hell of changing Gardner's mind, but I was hoping that maybe hearing a plea from Colorado Springs, the conservative bastion of conservative bastions, might carry some weight.

Maybe I should have threatened to poop in his yard as well.
posted by bibliowench at 8:45 AM on September 20, 2017 [41 favorites]

Yeah, by virtue of Graham-Cassidy being a vehicle for taking money from blue states' Medicaid programs and transferring it to red states, it would have some beneficiaries, while still leaving the country as a whole far worse off. And, of course, the same people who could be helped by stealing Medicaid money from blue states would also get help if their own GOP legislatures and governors hadn't decided that letting them die of preventable causes was a fair price to pay for giving Obama the finger.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:46 AM on September 20, 2017 [8 favorites]

And never undersestimate the ability of the media to blame the woes caused by Graham-Cassidy on Obamacare.
posted by drezdn at 8:51 AM on September 20, 2017 [6 favorites]

Amy Held, NPR: Refugees Invited By Charity [Oxfam] Make Themselves At Home In Trump's Childhood Abode

A welcome mat was literally rolled out for refugees resettled in the U.S. at a somewhat unexpected locale Saturday: President Trump's childhood home.

In a very pointed message, international charity Oxfam invited four refugees from three countries to spend the day at the Queens, N.Y., home where Trump spent his earliest years.

"Oxfam hosted refugees at President Trump's childhood home to declare that all people, refugees included, have the right to a safe place to call home," Shannon Scribner, Oxfam America's acting director for humanitarian programs and policy said in a press release.

The home had been available through AirBnB; its listing was removed.
posted by ZeusHumms at 8:53 AM on September 20, 2017 [22 favorites]

I'm confused. I thought the Senate was limited to considering one amendment per topic per reconciliation, and the failed vote for the AHCA was it. How is the Graham-Cassidy plan getting considered?
posted by mad bomber what bombs at midnight at 8:55 AM on September 20, 2017 [1 favorite]

Let them pray to Odin. Odin's going to get them so good.

It's people who aren't careful round gods and wishes who make the best cautionary tales.
posted by glasseyes at 8:55 AM on September 20, 2017 [9 favorites]

glasseyes: Let them pray to Odin

Almost eponysterical.
posted by hanov3r at 8:57 AM on September 20, 2017 [17 favorites]

the shifty-eyed Catcher
posted by glasseyes at 8:58 AM on September 20, 2017

Let them pray to Odin. Odin's going to get them so good.

It's people who aren't careful round gods and wishes who make the best cautionary tales.

Agreed.
posted by ZeusHumms at 9:11 AM on September 20, 2017 [10 favorites]

If McCain votes for Graham/Cassidy and it passes I will punch [pictures of] every liberal I know who praised McCain for his "heroic" no vote on the last repeal bill.
posted by Cookiebastard at 9:12 AM on September 20, 2017 [5 favorites]

That's what Graham-Cassidy is, except replace "tax cut" with "attack on the very concept of federalism and the place of the federal government". It's a gigantic "states' rights" middle finger that's designed to re-energize the racists who might have put away their swastikas and hoods and MAGA hats after one of them took a knuckle to the dome.

I was at my cardiac doctor yesterday, and as usual was surrounded by people much older than I am. The local news was running and they showed a piece of Trump's speech. Immediately a conversation picked up between a few gentlemen there who launched into a tirade about how NYC is the devil, all democrats are thieves, and the federal government is sticking its grubby paws into everything, including "our" healthcare. Rush Limbaugh was discussed with admiring fervor.

Listening to this conversation made me incandescent with rage. All of these assholes were on Medicare, a FEDERAL program, and I know this because I listened to them all check in with their insurance details. The rich liberal "thieves" in NYC's taxes pay for a lot of our state sponsored programs out here in the red boonies of NYS. It took everything in me to not interrupt and ask the gentleman with the LVAD pack that costs 100 grand or more a year if he had paid for even a few months of this care with a lifetime of FICA contributions. Without the federal government, he probably wouldn't have an LVAD to prop him up while he awaits transplantation. GAH. I know one thing for sure--the Republican propaganda media machine is fucking effective.
posted by xyzzy at 9:17 AM on September 20, 2017 [72 favorites]

What I'm saying is I don't see how they think this is gonna get them to 50%+1 of the vote in their states and districts in 2018. Because at that point, their white constituents are still going to be freshly angry that they can't afford healthcare.

The GOP has been successfully selling "you're hurting but it's OK because black people are hurt more" to white voters for decades. I don't know why you think this will suddenly cease to be a successful tactic.
posted by tocts at 9:22 AM on September 20, 2017 [9 favorites]

If McCain votes for Graham/Cassidy and it passes I will punch [pictures of] every liberal I know who praised McCain for his "heroic" no vote on the last repeal bill.

can we not with the my-allies-who-agree-with-me-on-99%-of-everything-are-the-real-enemy, it's already ruined twitter for me
posted by prize bull octorok at 9:23 AM on September 20, 2017 [29 favorites]

Why is it a big deal that Jimmy Kimmel is saying Senator Cassidy "lied to my face"?

Because despite the constant straight-up lies, the press continues to waffle with words like "misrepresentations." When does the media start saying "these people are straight-up lying" every hour of every day?
posted by rikschell at 9:26 AM on September 20, 2017 [55 favorites]

I'm confused. I thought the Senate was limited to considering one amendment per topic per reconciliation, and the failed vote for the AHCA was it. How is the Graham-Cassidy plan getting considered?

The Senate can consider one bill per topic, with unlimited amendments. Since the underlying AHCA bill was never defeated, it can be amended again and again and again before the budget resolution expires.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:27 AM on September 20, 2017 [4 favorites]

And, to avoid abusing the edit window:

The GOP's modus operandi for decades has been to couch going without important (frankly required) things like housing and healthcare as being issues of rights and morals -- that is, that we can't have government mandates for anything because gosh darn it, it's my right to not have healthcare if I don't want it. That's basically it -- their real goal is to keep taxes low for the uber-rich, but they get it done by claiming that anything else (e.g. dreaded TAXES) is a horrible imposition on the rights of citizens.

So no, I don't honestly think many GOP voters are going to connect the dots between a repeal of the ACA and who they voted for. They've been hoodwinked before into believing that policies that are demonstrably awful for them are for their own good because of the moral principle of the thing (principles conveniently with no real-world evidence to support them). They'll be hoodwinked on it again.
posted by tocts at 9:27 AM on September 20, 2017 [8 favorites]

Trump can't keep his word for 30 seconds in a row, and that loyalty only runs one way with him. Lot of these guys are gonna roll as soon as Mueller has a big enough threat or a big enough deal to offer them.

Belated thanks to Eyebrows for soothing my nerves.
posted by martin q blank at 9:29 AM on September 20, 2017 [2 favorites]

Then there is this South Dakota Legislator, Rep. Lynne DiSanto, who posted an All Lives Splatter meme on Facebook, who has now dropped her rudeness and skank.
posted by Oyéah at 9:30 AM on September 20, 2017 [2 favorites]

I really don't understand how senators/representatives get away with imposing their own personal beliefs on their constituents when those constituents light up phone lines and fax machines stating that they want the opposite of those beliefs.

The short answer is: it's more complicated than it appears.

The longer answer is that we have a long tradition in this country, and in many representative-democratic nations, of the Lawmaker Who Bravely Stands Up For What Is Right. Sometimes the things that will be in the long term health of the nation aren't very popular at the time. The Civil Rights Act, for example, did a lot of good, but many of the provisions it made room for (busing, for example) were so unpopular at the time that they were outright denied to get enough votes.

Most people don't agree that it should be all one or all the other - that the legislators should either do exactly what their constituents want with no exceptions /or/ that they should ignore their constituents totally and just do what they feel like. So at that point, we're deciding at what times it's okay to ignore your constituents and do what's right, not whether or not it's right to do so. And that's leaving out the "dance with them that brought you" factor.

And everyone's personal calculus is going to be different. And a lot of people are going to make decisions based on what polling says, not what the hyper-engaged constituents who happen to be calling their office say. Sometimes that's good. Sometimes that's bad. There's no universal bright line rules that can always be applied for universal acclaim.
posted by corb at 9:30 AM on September 20, 2017 [8 favorites]

Jesus fucking Christ Santorum has the brainpower of really stupid dust and we threw his ass out of office in PA over a decade ago, why the fuck is he still ruining my life?!

He's that guy who's always in your barber shop, only it's the Capitol barber shop, and he's also a giant creep
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:36 AM on September 20, 2017 [2 favorites]

Then there is this South Dakota Legislator, Rep. Lynne DiSanto, who posted an All Lives Splatter meme on Facebook, who has now dropped her rudeness and skank.

In a moral country this person would resign in disgrace, but we're in the upside-down.

Also, that stank ain't gonna wash off.
posted by kirkaracha at 9:36 AM on September 20, 2017 [2 favorites]

The Senate can consider one bill per topic, with unlimited amendments. Since the underlying AHCA bill was never defeated, it can be amended again and again and again before the budget resolution expires.

Thanks. I didn't realize each of these attempts was an amendment. I was led to believe after the last AHCA vote that the whole thing was tanked for this year.
posted by mad bomber what bombs at midnight at 9:36 AM on September 20, 2017 [2 favorites]

The longer answer is that we have a long tradition in this country, and in many representative-democratic nations, of the Lawmaker Who Bravely Stands Up For What Is Right.

Anyone who can convince themselves that kicking millions of people off of healthcare is morally equivalent to guaranteeing equal rights to all citizens regardless of color or creed is delusional.
posted by xyzzy at 9:39 AM on September 20, 2017 [5 favorites]

Yes. Many people are delusional. Many, many.
posted by Golem XIV at 9:43 AM on September 20, 2017 [4 favorites]

I don't remember seeing this posted:
@ASlavitt: Trump & ACA repeal is supposedly all about increased state flexibility. This is what happened when the governor of MN believed it.
posted by ArgentCorvid at 9:44 AM on September 20, 2017 [15 favorites]

From yesterday: In a sharp departure from his predecessors, Health and Human Services Secretary Tom Price last week took private jets on five separate flights for official business, at a cost of tens of thousands of dollars more than commercial travel. [...]

Price, a frequent critic of federal spending who has been developing a plan for department-wide cost savings, declined to comment.

That's how one does journalism. I hope more members of the press are, ah, taking notes.
posted by Gelatin at 9:44 AM on September 20, 2017 [33 favorites]

Itsarepublicnotademocracy is the standard conservative excuse for representatives defying their constituents, and is largely internally incoherent. If the people want to elect someone who represents their interests, they should be free to do so, and if they want someone who doesn't represent their interests (i.e., who "will bravely stand up for what is right"), they are also free to do so. But under what conceivable logic would people choose the latter over the former? Representative democracy depends on the idea that, in many technical domains, it makes sense to elect trusted experts to represent voters who many not be able to adjudicate complex issues on their own. But it is incoherent and contrary to most accounts of human nature to say that voters would ever choose to elect a representative or system who directly opposes their explicit, well-considered views. Republicanism (small r) can justify delegation, but it can't really justify direct, flagrant contradiction of the popular will, unless it's willing to jettison any pretense of democracy whatsoever.
posted by chortly at 9:47 AM on September 20, 2017 [11 favorites]

it is incoherent and contrary to most accounts of human nature to say that voters would ever choose to elect a representative or system who directly opposes their explicit, well-considered views.

The thing is, most people aren't single issue voters, and it's even harder now than ever to be one. Most of the time when you vote for a legislator, you are picking between two people who share at least some of your views and oppose others. I have never, in my entire life, been able to vote for someone who shared all of my beliefs and values.

Right now, my priority is opposing Trump and fascism. That means I'm supporting an awful lot of people who don't agree with me on some of my other beliefs, I simply think it's more important to save the country overall. I'm not voting out anyone who stands up to Trump, even if they do something I don't ordinarily like. Right now, I am a single issue voter, and on that one issue my voice is powerful. When this is over, I will return to having a variety of issues I care about, and my ability to pick one and only one to carry the standard for is low.
posted by corb at 10:00 AM on September 20, 2017 [7 favorites]

Well crapknobs, I posted earlier but did something idiotic and it went poof so here it is again. Pardon the rerun.

I faxed this (via resistbot) to NC gov Roy Cooper this morning. Feel free to use/repurpose for your own resistance efforts accordingly.

----------------------------------
I'm a [NC] resident urging you to add your voice to the other 10 governors against passing the Graham Cassidy Heller Johnson amendment. This bill will cripple individual states' ability to tax healthcare providers to fund medicaid.

There is a group of 15 republican governors in support of this unconscionable bill.

Please add your strong voice to this bipartisan group of governors opposing Graham Cassidy and keeping it in the trash where it belongs:

John Hickenlooper
John Kasich
Bill Walker
Steve Bullock
Tom Wolf
Terence McAuliffe
John Bel Edwards
Brian Sandoval
Charles Baker
Phil Scott

You may find a copy of their joint letter on the colorado.gov website [link] titled "bipartisan_governors_letter_re_graham_cassidy_9-19-17.pdf".

Please join their chorus today.
----------------------------------
posted by yoga at 10:06 AM on September 20, 2017 [6 favorites]

can we not with the my-allies-who-agree-with-me-on-99%-of-everything-are-the-real-enemy, it's already ruined twitter for me

I think it would be reasonable to be angry at McCain for making a big, false show of high principle, only to vote Yea on this new atrocity, and I think it's reasonable to be mad at liberal commentators like Jon Stewart who helped him build that false elevated image over the course of his career, even if it would be a little silly to be angry at people who were justly happy that the previous atrocity didn't pass into law, and over-praised McCain as a result.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 10:09 AM on September 20, 2017 [11 favorites]

The thing is, most people aren't single issue voters

I can only speak to the Midwest, where I've lived all my life in a few different states , but I would argue that most people who vote are, in fact single-issue voters. The single issue has become "the other side is fucking crazy/stupid."
posted by Rykey at 10:10 AM on September 20, 2017 [9 favorites]

Add Maryland Governor Larry Hogan to the list of Republican governors in opposition to the G-C repeal bill.
posted by TwoStride at 10:16 AM on September 20, 2017 [17 favorites]

Chris Christie is against it too.
posted by melissasaurus at 10:20 AM on September 20, 2017 [12 favorites]

The thing is, most people aren't single issue voters, and it's even harder now than ever to be one. Most of the time when you vote for a legislator, you are picking between two people who share at least some of your views and oppose others. I have never, in my entire life, been able to vote for someone who shared all of my beliefs and values.

Yes, we are all forced to choose between representatives that encompass a bundle of policies, many not to our liking. That's an inevitable constraint imposed by representative democracy. But while that part is inevitable, when a super-majority of a public has a clear and considered view that is contrary to their representative's, it's not inevitable that the representative must stick to their own minority view. Many in fact do change their behavior, if not their views, to respect the clear views of their constituents. A demand for, and social norm for, this kind of behavior by representatives is more democratic than simply declaring that representative democracy is full of compromises. So while pushing our representatives -- especially those already elected -- to change their views or behaviors to conform with a majority of their constituents is certainly a practical challenge, it's still the democratic thing to do, and far better than the alternative. Just because we live in a representative system with tons of compromises, doesn't mean we have to accept that blanket excuse by representatives trying to wriggle out of respecting the views of their constituents.
posted by chortly at 10:20 AM on September 20, 2017 [2 favorites]

More private analysis and studies of the latest Trumpcare.

Century Foundation: Five Reasons Why the Latest “Repeal and Replace” Effort May Be the Worst

TL;DR - Higher premiums, fewer covered, less covered.

Commonwealth Fund: What Are the Potential Effects of the Graham-Cassidy ACA Repeal-and-Replace Bill? Past Estimates Provide Some Clues

TL;DR - 32 million lose coverage. Medicaid cuts would impact health care of 65 million.
posted by chris24 at 10:22 AM on September 20, 2017 [8 favorites]

For those wondering how the Republicans think they'll get re-elected in 2018 after condemning a lot of people to death the answer is: by condemning a lot of foreigners to death.

Coupled with rampant gerrymandering, which makes the House basically Republican for all eternity, they know damn well that all they need to do is bomb a random nation with a large Muslim population and the media, all their voters, and a depressingly large number of Democrats will reliably fall in line to praise Trump in the name of "unity", and the Americans they voted to kill by stealing their healthcare will get off their deathbeds to go vote Republican because there's a war on and they love killing Muslims.

The only real question is if Trump (or, rather, his aids since Trump is a gibbering idiot who can't plan something as simple as taking a shit) will time the war right or not.

I'm betting on a war sometime in August or September of 2018, probably with Iran as the designated victim. I'm betting more on September than August because the Republican brains remember the ill timed war Bush Sr. pulled and how by the time the elections came around the war fever had ended and he got voted out of office despite the war.

They'll want their war to be still in the sparkly bombing and heroic portraits on TV every evening phase when November 6 rolls around in 2018.

The trick, for the Republicans, will be to keep Trump from starting a war before time.

But I flat out guarantee that a great many of the Congressional Republicans, in addition to believing that they've sufficiently rigged the elections that they don't need to worry too much, are planning on using a war to pull through the 2018 elections. Quelling internal dissent by attacking an external enemy is a long known and mostly successful political tactic, it's worked for thousands of years and they think it'll keep working and I'm fairly sure they're right.

Americans, especially Republicans but also the whole news media and most Democrats, love nothing more than seeing US warplanes kill lots of Muslims and they'll shower praise and votes on the Republicans for supplying them with the holy war they so crave.
posted by sotonohito at 10:24 AM on September 20, 2017 [28 favorites]

Also, isn't there a better term than "entitlements," which makes the recipients sound like they feel entitled to get something from the government, instead of treating health care as a human right?

Entitlements are, by definition, things to which people are entitled to get -- health care is a human right to which people are entitled, the same as other human rights.
[...]
It is the best of words, and the worst of words; I don't have a better suggestion, but I agree that one is, at this stage, needed.

I wonder idly if, rather than finding a new word, we should expand the use of the current one? So instead of talking about my right to free speech, we could refer to my free speech entitlement?

Or to your Second Amendment entitlements.
posted by nickmark at 10:33 AM on September 20, 2017 [7 favorites]

This Stanford Professor Has a Theory on Why 2017 Is Filled With Jerks

“You can make the argument that we are living in Peak Asshole,” says Robert Sutton, a Stanford professor who, as the author of the iconic 2007 book The No Asshole Rule, is perhaps the world’s leading expert on the species. According to Sutton, the problem of “disrespectful, demeaning, and downright mean-spirited behavior” is “worse than ever,” which, while it may be bad news for humanity, is good news for The Asshole Survival Guide, the book Sutton came to New York to promote.

posted by kirkaracha at 10:36 AM on September 20, 2017 [13 favorites]

The Bill Of Entitlements.
posted by phliar at 10:36 AM on September 20, 2017 [4 favorites]

TL;DR - Higher premiums, fewer covered, less covered.

Finally, an example showing the value of the pedantic distinction between fewer and less!
posted by paper chromatographologist at 10:45 AM on September 20, 2017 [58 favorites]

Donations, that is, to Trump's legal defense.
posted by ocschwar at 10:47 AM on September 20, 2017 [8 favorites]

Called my GOP Senator's regional office today; had a nice conversation about whether one hearing and 90 seconds of debate is sufficient for a bill that will transform the American economy and could cause millions to lose access to affordable healthcare (but we won't know because they won't wait for the Congressional Budget Office to score that), and also, how morally culpable would my senator be for the resultant early deaths of American people?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:48 AM on September 20, 2017 [15 favorites]

Grifters gotta grift.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:48 AM on September 20, 2017

Adam Felder, Quartz: To defeat neo-Nazis, Americans need to revisit their own history of political protest

Most of us learned the wrong lessons when it comes to violent protest. Specifically: an oversimplification of American history has papered over the fact that violence has played an integral, if ugly, part in many of the civic progress victories we celebrate as a country. It is that oversimplification–that progress is always made without violence, and that non-violence is both morally and tactically superior–that has managed to reach the absurd conclusion that Nazis and a subset of those protesting them, Antifa, are somehow of equal moral standing.

The oversimplification of political violence takes two forms: an inability to measure the danger and magnitude of violence, and an unwillingness to acknowledge the frequent failures of non-violent protest where violence succeeds.

posted by Johnny Wallflower at 10:53 AM on September 20, 2017 [23 favorites]

If you're on hold with the Senate switchboard, skip to 11 minutes and 18 seconds into A Closer Look (Seth Meyers, Sept 19) for a fantastic rebuttal to the golf meme Trump re-tweeted. Would love to get just that on a loop . .
posted by petebest at 10:55 AM on September 20, 2017 [1 favorite]

I just faxed Schumer and Gillibrand begging them to employ every tool at their disposal to defeat Graham-Cassidy. Having two Democratic Senators makes me feel like a perpetual bystander helpless to do anything about the slow-moving disaster occurring in DC.
posted by xyzzy at 10:56 AM on September 20, 2017 [10 favorites]

I'm not the only soul, accused of hit and run. Oklahoma City police shoot and kill a deaf man, holding a stick, in his front yard.
posted by Oyéah at 11:05 AM on September 20, 2017 [1 favorite]

“You know, I could maybe give you 10 reasons why this bill shouldn’t be considered,” Grassley said. “But Republicans campaigned on this so often that you have a responsibility to carry out what you said in the campaign. That’s pretty much as much of a reason as the substance of the bill.”

Chuck Grassley (R-IA), ladies and gentlemen.

Now, you may be thinking, "why are they doing it if everyone hates it?" and the answer is....

Back in June, rich Republican donors threatened congresscritters with no cash for midterms unless they repealed the ACA and pushed through tax reform.

The promise isn't to the electorate, it's entirely a promise to the people paying their bills.
posted by Talez at 11:07 AM on September 20, 2017 [69 favorites]

Oklahoma City police shoot and kill a deaf man

The officer who shot the man, Mathews added, had been placed on paid administrative leave.

flames_on_the_side_of_my_face.gif
posted by hanov3r at 11:14 AM on September 20, 2017 [7 favorites]

witchen: "because at least eight of them, eight of them, their states do far better than Obamacare in terms of funding, and they have more control over the money. And that’s going to be a hard no."

What the f does that mean? I can't interpret it as anything other than vague nonsense, or brazen lying, or perhaps it's Opposite Day? I genuinely don't understand what he's getting at.

As I quoted up-thread: In general, the legislation would over time move money away from states, predominantly Democratic, that have expanded Medicaid and aggressively pursued enrolling their lower income populations in Medicaid and exchange coverage. Money would move toward states, predominantly Republican, that have not expanded Medicaid.

Note: predominantly Republican, not solely. Washington Post has a map from Avalere Health, who studied the plan, and mapped the losses (and few gains) by state. 34 states (and D.C.) would lose funding, 3 would come out about even, and 13 would gain, with Texas being the biggest winner (up $35 billion). The next closest? Georgia, up $10B, then it's mid-to-low single billion gains for the other 11 states.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:16 AM on September 20, 2017 [5 favorites]

>> TL;DR - Higher premiums, fewer covered, less covered.

> Finally, an example showing the value of the pedantic distinction between fewer and less!

Oh, Metafilter! This is one of the reasons why I love you so.
posted by RedOrGreen at 11:16 AM on September 20, 2017 [14 favorites]

I hate the word 'congresscritters' because critters is a word generally used to describe cute, harmless little animals while most of these amoral fucks are anything but cute and harmless. It'd be like referring to trump as the Pwezzie Wezzie or something.
posted by Atom Eyes at 11:18 AM on September 20, 2017 [13 favorites]

Leah Fessler, Quartz: Bill Clinton coined a new phrase to describe today’s right-wing populism

Delivering opening remarks to the executives and government leaders packed into the Plaza Hotel ballroom at the Bloomberg Global Business Forum, the 42nd president of the United States called the audience to action, saying that “the most important thing is whether you believe that social strength, economic performance, and political power flow from division or multiplication, from subtraction or addition.”
“You’re all here because, in one way or another, you intuitively know this. You believe that multiplication is a superior strategy to division. You believe that addition is the superior strategy to subtraction in economics, social inclusion and politics. You believe that there are severe limits on the ability of rising separatist tribalism to solve the problems that [threaten] the opportunities of the modern world.”

posted by ZeusHumms at 11:19 AM on September 20, 2017 [31 favorites]

My state (Minnesota) stands to lose $161 million dollars in Federal aid due to Tom Price and HHS' shenanigans and our governor is not happy. "While Minnesota stands to get $208 million in federal funding to cushion against 2018 premium hikes, it would also stand to lose $369 million in federal funding for MinnesotaCare." Even our Republican majority legislature understands the value in keeping insurance premiums low, but now we will be punished for it. States' rights my ass.
posted by soelo at 11:20 AM on September 20, 2017 [19 favorites]

With a vote set for next week (maybe) John McCain is being extremely John McCain:

Nothing has changed. If McConnell wants to put it on the floor, that’s up to McConnell,” McCain said. “I am the same as I was before. I want the regular order.”

Asked if that means he’s a "no" vote, McCain said: “That means I want the regular order. It means I want the regular order!”

The point in the process I'm waiting for is the bit where they start throwing billions of dollars at Alaska to try to buy Murkowski's vote.
posted by zachlipton at 11:22 AM on September 20, 2017 [17 favorites]

What on earth did Bill say that had to be glossed over with "[threaten]"?
posted by Faint of Butt at 11:23 AM on September 20, 2017 [5 favorites]

xyzzy and other people with two Democrat senators: You can use this tool to make calls to people with targeted GOP senators. You'll be calling people who are likely to agree that ACA repeal is horrible. If they agree, you can connect them directly to their senator's office.
posted by mcduff at 11:23 AM on September 20, 2017 [3 favorites]

Let's compare, then: Trump, our next president, promised to block AT&T/Time Warner merger (Jon Brodkin for Ars Technica, Nov. 9, 2016)

Donald Trump’s victory in the presidential election might be big trouble for AT&T’s attempt to buy Time Warner, and it could even threaten Comcast’s 5-year-old acquisition of NBCUniversal.

We can’t be certain that Trump will follow through on statements he made during his campaign or whether the people he appoints as regulators will achieve Trump’s desired outcomes. But we do know that just a few weeks ago, Trump said he intends to block the AT&T/Time Warner deal and wants the government to consider breaking up Comcast and NBC.

Vs now: Comcast’s top government guy says Trump won’t stop many mergers (Tony Romm for Recode, Sept. 20, 2017)

President Donald Trump has previously threatened to break up Comcast while repeatedly taken aim at one of its rivals, AT&T, as the wireless giant inches closer to purchasing Time Warner.

But Comcast’s leading voice in Washington, D.C. — David Cohen — told Recode that the regulatory climate for big mergers remains as friendly as ever in the nation’s capital, no matter what Trump himself has said.

“Overall, this president and this administration is likely less hostile to horizontal growth or even vertical growth in the telecom space and elsewhere,” Cohen explained during an interview that will air this weekend on C-SPAN’s “The Communicators.”

By vertical, Cohen meant mergers that open companies to new lines of business; with respect to horizontal, he was referring to deals that combine two companies that directly compete against each other. “I don’t think that’s a license for ‘anything goes,’” Cohen continued. But, he added there’s “pretty clearly going to be less hostility and a greater willingness to allow the market to work.”

Of course, there’s no shortage of transactions currently awaiting the U.S. government’s approval — deals that will test Cohen’s thesis. For one thing, AT&T is far enough along in its quest to buy Time Warner that regulators studying it at the Justice Department are now weighing whether to apply conditions on the deal, sources have said.

Nothing's real until it's done, but just something of interest to track.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:23 AM on September 20, 2017 [3 favorites]

"But I flat out guarantee that a great many of the Congressional Republicans, in addition to believing that they've sufficiently rigged the elections that they don't need to worry too much, are planning on using a war to pull through the 2018 elections. "

This is beyond despicable. This is outright, pure EVIL. Evil to the core.
posted by litlnemo at 11:25 AM on September 20, 2017 [7 favorites]

The point in the process I'm waiting for is the bit where they start throwing billions of dollars at Alaska to try to buy Murkowski's vote.

Wait no more!
posted by Justinian at 11:27 AM on September 20, 2017 [13 favorites]

And, on top of that, he's making those probably-false private statements in a way to hide them from the public.
Oh yeah, individually targeted content selection/presentation has opened up whole new universes of Pandora's Boxes full of opportunity for deceptive manipulation, lying, grifting, and creative bullshitting. I blame those innovations almost as much as anything for how fucked up American society has been getting and keeps getting. Turns out maintaining consensus reality requires the existence of consensus on facts and social cohesion depends on norms. Who'd have thunk nurture and social context played any role in shaping a society, garsh... Oopsy.
posted by saulgoodman at 11:27 AM on September 20, 2017 [3 favorites]

Everbody should be concentrating on calling McCain and Murkowski. One of them needs to vote NO or this will pass, that's what it comes down to.
posted by Justinian at 11:27 AM on September 20, 2017 [2 favorites]

...I hate the word 'congresscritters'...

Congressvarmints?
posted by Cookiebastard at 11:30 AM on September 20, 2017 [8 favorites]

Congressbastards
posted by rifflesby at 11:34 AM on September 20, 2017 [6 favorites]

Those statements cannot both be true. Either Trump is lying to the American people, or he's lying to a subset of the American people who he wants to give him money.

As long as at least one of his lies sounds good to me, I'm sold!
posted by Rykey at 11:34 AM on September 20, 2017

Congress people. It's kind of important that we not lose sight of their personhood, that we remember we should expect better of them and their shared humanity.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 11:34 AM on September 20, 2017 [11 favorites]

Zero tolerance policies are stupid, harmful, and generally bad.

But there are times when the status quo is worse.

When it comes to the cops killing people, the status quo is worse than a zero tolerance policy.

Since it has been exhaustively demonstrated that the police flatly refuse to clean up their act, that the criminal justice system flatly refuses to convict murderous cops, then there are really only two options left: either shrug and accept the current status quo, or impose a zero tolerance policy that we know is going to be bad.

I think we should take the second choice because it is the least bad choice.

Any cop who kills anyone for absolutely any reason explicit including self defense or fearing for their life, needs to be instantly fired with no possibility of appeal, no possibility of ever working as a cop again, and the lifelong loss of the right to carry or own firearms even as a private citizen. They need to know that if they pull the trigger they're done being cops forever and balance that against whatever other reasons they might have for pulling the trigger.

That's a stupid policy. It's a bad policy. But it's less bad than the status quo and it'll stop the murder spree our police forces are currently engaged in. After a few years or decades of that stupid, bad, zero tolerance policy, we can relax a bit and try a more nuanced approach. But right now its either that or just accept that the cops will be murdering people for fun.
posted by sotonohito at 11:35 AM on September 20, 2017 [12 favorites]

Trump’s pick for NASA lays out agenda and answers critics (Eric Berger for Ars Technica, Sept. 20, 2017) -- Jim Bridenstine likely to win fairly easy approval from Senate.

Oklahoma Congressman Jim Bridenstine, who was nominated to become NASA's next administrator by the Trump administration on September 1, may get a Senate confirmation hearing as early as next week. The choice of the 42-year-old Republican pilot has raised objections among some of his fellow members of Congress because of his lack of a technical background. Environmentalists have also objected to Bridenstine due to his views on climate change.

However, a pre-hearing questionnaire (PDF) submitted by Bridenstine addresses some of these criticisms and also offers some important clues about where he would like to see the space agency go. "With NASA's global leadership, we will pioneer the Solar System, send humans back to the Moon, to Mars, and beyond. This requires a consistent, sustainable strategy for deep space exploration." Bridenstine supports human missions to the Moon before going to Mars.
...
Although Bridenstine is a politician, there are likely few people in Congress more qualified to lead the space agency. As a Naval aviator, he flew missions off of aircraft carriers and combat missions in Iraq and Afghanistan. As a member of Congress, Bridenstine immersed himself in space-related committees and policy decisions, seeking to reform US aerospace efforts in both civil and military space. The conservative has previously outlined broad goals to modernize the US spaceflight enterprise with his American Space Enterprise Act.

Some of his critics are backed by "legacy" space-support companies, those who have "fulfilled civil and military aerospace contracts," compared to "new space" firms, including SpaceX. And his climate change denial isn't complete - he recognizes that the Arctic ice is disappearing, which could impact how the Navy operates.

In other words, not the worst individual, particularly for people supported by Trump, as depicted by Eric Berger on Ars Technica. Barry Friedman at The Tulsa Voice is far less kind, probably because he is far more honest and direct. Barry also described the five Republican clones vying to replace Jim, in an special election that could cost $600,000. A general election would be required if a Democrat, Libertarian or independent also runs, and as of Sept. 9th, it looks like no one has stepped in to represent anything but the GOP.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:37 AM on September 20, 2017 [6 favorites]

Congress people. It's kind of important that we not lose sight of their personhood, that we remember we should expect better of them and their shared humanity.

I completely support this point. The disinterest in and contempt for government as such is a huge problem in my view. I have certainly been guilty of the first as things were ticking along fine for me for a long time. I don't see how either helps anyone, though blowing off a little steam might have some value.
posted by shothotbot at 11:43 AM on September 20, 2017 [3 favorites]

Trump's Africa speech invented the non-existent country of Nambia (nobody knows if he meant Zambia or Namibia) and declared that "so many friends going to your countries trying to get rich," because what African leaders really want to hear is how his pals are using their countries as colonialist piggy banks.
posted by zachlipton at 11:44 AM on September 20, 2017 [49 favorites]

Hey, it's WikiLeaks, and they have "Spy Files Russia" to share! Except it's not a lot of actual new information, just confirmation of what folks already thought they knew:

“These are tricks that the Russians were willing to give up,” says James Andrew Lewis, a senior vice president at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, who formerly worked as a Foreign Service officer and an information security rapporteur for the United Nations. “I actually thought it was a bit slow and belated. They probably had to get FSB clearance to release anything and that may have taken a while. Think of it as vaudeville for leakers.

Pullquote from article by Lily Hay Newman for Wired, Sept. 20, 2017.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:50 AM on September 20, 2017 [9 favorites]

Ugh, I had to watch part of that African speech on Fox News while at a local restaurant. I also had to hear all the problems that could come up if we went to single payer heath care. Such a different planet they're on.

Given all the let's-shaft-the-blue-states and everything else, I wouldn't be surprised if there was some kind of second civil war in the next ~20 years.
posted by Melismata at 11:50 AM on September 20, 2017 [2 favorites]

(nobody knows if he meant Zambia or Namibia)

throwing in a vote for possibly confused about The Gambia as well.
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 11:51 AM on September 20, 2017 [15 favorites]

Now, you may be thinking, "why are they doing it if everyone hates it?" and the answer is....

Back in June, rich Republican donors threatened congresscritters with no cash for midterms unless they repealed the ACA and pushed through tax reform.

The promise isn't to the electorate, it's entirely a promise to the people paying their bills.

The trustee-delegate model as described above has some severe limitations and fails to capture significant actions. Much better models include "politico" as a category, who take actions that get them reelected.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 11:55 AM on September 20, 2017

Can you expand on that? I don't follow.
posted by Coventry at 11:57 AM on September 20, 2017 [2 favorites]

Given all the let's-shaft-the-blue-states and everything else, I wouldn't be surprised if there was some kind of second civil war in the next ~20 years.

I have to wonder about this, too. I surmise that what will happen is that well-off white people in blue states - who, because of these factors, can afford to be (somewhat) apolitical, or at least know that they are spared the worst - will find that Bad Things are going to happen to them, too, and that living in a blue state won't shield them. The It Can Happen To You factor is powerful. I hope that these people (us! in many cases) will ally with Black Lives Matter and other organizations like them and not work against them.

The thing is, the blue states are the ones with the money and the economic power. We have the Amazon and the Starbucks and the Apple and I know that the Trumpiest of Trumpsters aren't going to want to do without their lattes and their iPhones and their next-day delivery of cat food and toilet paper.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 11:59 AM on September 20, 2017 [9 favorites]

@jimsciutto: Iran is adhering to Nuclear Deal, says Head of US Strategic Command Gen John Hyten

Of course, this means that within 24 hours Trump and/or a member of the administration will probably publicly claim that Iran is right behind the DPRK and insist on glassing it ASAP.
posted by zombieflanders at 12:08 PM on September 20, 2017 [10 favorites]

AHIP (the trade association for insurance companies) comes out against Graham-Cassidy (and passes on their wish for tax cuts). They've largely been playing coy with Republican proposals all along, biting their tongue so they can influence specific details through lobbying instead of trashing the whole bill, but here they're direct:

The Graham-Cassidy-Heller-Johnson proposal fails to meet these guiding principles, and would have real consequences on consumers and patients by further destabilizing the individual market; cutting Medicaid; pulling back on protections for pre-existing conditions; not ending taxes on health insurance premiums and benefits; and potentially allowing government-controlled, single payer health care to grow.

Yes, the last one is real. On a related note, the Daily Beast reports that The Republican National Committee Is Weaponizing Bernie Sanders’ Single-Payer Plan:

The Republican Party’s attempt to sell its latest bill to repeal and replace Obamacare relies heavily on scaring the public about what Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt) wants to do to healthcare in America.

Talking points put together by the Republican National Committee, which were obtained by The Daily Beast, ostensibly promote the health care overhaul written by Sens. Bill Cassidy (R-LA) and Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.). But the top two sections of the document don’t address the bill at all, focusing instead on declaring Obamacare to be in a state of collapse and turning the current debate into a binary choice with Sanders’ single-payer bill.

I think there's a decent argument to be made that releasing the single-payer plan before September 30th was a tactical mistake.
posted by zachlipton at 12:17 PM on September 20, 2017 [42 favorites]

Oh please Brer Graham, whatever you do, please don't throw me into the single-payer patch!
posted by kirkaracha at 12:20 PM on September 20, 2017 [9 favorites]

I think it's inarguable it was a tactical mistake. Witness these threads. Lots of oxygen taken up debating single payer while the wolves were at the gate coming to eat everyone.
posted by Justinian at 12:20 PM on September 20, 2017 [15 favorites]

Katie Rogers, NYT: Republicans Defend Health Bill Against Another Adversary: Jimmy Kimmel

The so-called Graham-Cassidy bill is likely to face a close vote in Congress, where several Republican senators remain undecided or as likely no votes. It was unclear on Wednesday whether Mr. Kimmel’s efforts had inspired more people to call in urging senators to vote against the bill.

At the office of Susan Collins, a Republican of Maine, the calls hadn’t increased.

“Our call volume is the same,” her press secretary, Annie Clark, said. “Steady calls.“

posted by cybertaur1 at 12:23 PM on September 20, 2017 [2 favorites]

Trump's Africa speech invented the non-existent country of Nambia

"I am reminded of the time that Prince Akeem of Zamunda, a tremendous nation, great place to become rich, incedentally, immigrated, legally that is, the right way, to the great United States and, of course, to the even greater city of New York, great wealth and prosperity there in the 1980s, you might remember a few buildings I put up."
posted by uncleozzy at 12:23 PM on September 20, 2017 [13 favorites]

VIRGINIA HOUSE ELECTIONS - HD 61-65

intro
1-5
6-10
11-15
16-20
21-25
26-30
31-35
36-40
41-45
46-50
51-55
56-60

===

61st District
Currently GOP seat
R cand: Tommy Wright (incumbent)
D cand: none

Rural district on NC border, 62.8% white. Incumbent first elected in 200 special. No D candidate in 2013, R won 71-29 in 2015. Trump won district 58-39.

===

62nd District
Currently GOP seat
R cand: Riley Ingram (incumbent)
D cand: Sheila Bynum-Coleman

Richmond suburbs, 65.3% white. Incumbent first elected in 1991. No D candidate in 2013, R won 60-40 in 2015. Trump won district 50-45.

===

63rd District
Currently Dem seat
R cand: none
D cand: Lashrecse Aird (incumbent)

Richmond exurbs, 35.5% white. Incumbent first elected in 2015. No R candidate in 2013, 2015 special, or 2015. Clinton won district 67-30.

===

64th District
Currently GOP seat
R cand: Emily Brewer
D cand: Rebecca Colaw

Rural/Newport News suburbs, 72.0% white. No D candidate in 2013 or 2015. Trump won district 59-37.

===

65th District
Currently GOP seat
R cand: Lee Ware (incumbent)
D cand: Francis Stevens

Richmond exurbs, 81.4% white. Incumbent first elected in 1997. R won 68-32 in 2013, no D candidate in 2015. Trump won district 60-34.

===

Next time: 66-70
posted by Chrysostom at 12:24 PM on September 20, 2017 [20 favorites]

everyone: WHAT DO WE STAND FOR WE NEED A POSITIVE MESSAGE
[bernie releases an affirmative proposal]
everyone: WHAT AN OBVIOUS MISTAKE
posted by prefpara at 12:25 PM on September 20, 2017 [49 favorites]

Iran is right behind the DPRK and insist on glassing it ASAP.

Fuck. Fuckfuckfuck. They're gonna nuke Iran to send a message to North Korea. Iran's got no nukes, has nowhere near the standing army the DPRK has, no shelling of a major city of major strategic value over their border to worry about, it's full of Mooz-lums, it destroys an enemy of the Saudis, and it puts our hands on a major oil spigot.

Somebody who knows more than I do about this—please de-chill my bones.
posted by Rykey at 12:26 PM on September 20, 2017 [3 favorites]

Justinian: "I think it's inarguable it was a tactical mistake. Witness these threads. Lots of oxygen taken up debating single payer while the wolves were at the gate coming to eat everyone."

Respectfully disagree. They were going to try to push something regardless, and they've been using the "single payer" threat all along.

zachlipton: "AHIP (the trade association for insurance companies) comes out against Graham-Cassidy (and passes on their wish for tax cuts). "

The American Hospital Association and the AMA have come out against it, too. There was a time when this would have seemed surprising, but here we are.
posted by Chrysostom at 12:27 PM on September 20, 2017 [23 favorites]

NYT, Nicholas Fandos, Voter Fraud? A Trump Nominee Looks Like He Cast an Illegal Ballot

As President Trump’s voter integrity commission looks under rocks for possible voter malfeasance, its members might want to examine a presidential nominee awaiting confirmation by the Senate Finance Committee.

Documents indicate that Jeffrey Gerrish, the president’s pick to be a deputy United States Trade Representative, moved from Virginia to Maryland last year, but opted in November to vote in the more competitive state of Virginia than his bright blue new home.

The Senate Finance Committee, which has been considering Mr. Gerrish’s nomination, was briefed on the matter on Tuesday, including the fact that Mr. Gerrish had almost certainly voted illegally, according to three Democratic congressional aides familiar with the briefing. Public records back up that notion.
...
It is a misdemeanor in Virginia to vote if you are not a resident of the state. The commonwealth does carve out grace period for residents who move out of the state within 30 days of a presidential election, allowing them to vote in their old precinct only in the contest for president.

Mr. Gerrish’s move does not appear to have fallen in that grace period. Records show that he sold a Fairfax, Va., home in July 2016 and purchased a home in Montgomery County, Md., just across the state line, the same month. Mr. Gerrish did not register to vote in Maryland until February of this year, according to state records.

posted by zachlipton at 12:28 PM on September 20, 2017 [43 favorites]

From last week: Exclusive: North Korea 'secretly helped by Iran to gain nuclear weapons', British officials fear

This might go nowhere, but this sort of thing worked to get us to go to war in Iraq, so why not Iran, I guess...
posted by BungaDunga at 12:31 PM on September 20, 2017 [4 favorites]

Bernie's bill is a "tactical mistake" in the same way that Nancy Pelosi is somehow "ruining" the party. The GOP is going to find anyone or anything to blame for their bill other than themselves. Bernie's bill was the most convenient thing to blame right now, but if it wasn't that it would be something else. The abuser will never take responsibility for their own actions.

I really don't want to have to hide our policy ideas just so that the GOP doesn't try to kill us for having them. They want to kill us. This has been established. We can't change them, only they can change themselves. We have to move forward in achieving our goals anyway.
posted by melissasaurus at 12:31 PM on September 20, 2017 [60 favorites]

If the GOP wants to cast this as a battle between the Invisible Hand strangling your loved ones and Dirty Communist Single Payer then someone in the GOP is sabotaging them from within.

There's 30% of the country that will never vote for anything "CoMmUnIsT". The remaining 70% look at the two choices and should have a "No shit" choice to make.

Like, am I missing something here? This seems like the best light to fight this battle in.
posted by Slackermagee at 12:32 PM on September 20, 2017 [6 favorites]

Prefpara: everyone: WHAT DO WE STAND FOR WE NEED A POSITIVE MESSAGE
[bernie releases an affirmative proposal]
everyone: WHAT AN OBVIOUS MISTAKE

Indeed! I'd rather have Democrats stand for something - even if it's not Practically Perfect In Every Way - rather than be centrists or Third Wayers who try to appease everyone and wind up pleasing no-one.

Democrats shouldn't think like abuse victims who believe that "if only I do everything right and please my abuser in every possible way, I won't be abused." It doesn't work for the abuse victims, and it won't work for the Dems. Hillary Clinton couldn't win for losing with the media.

Medicare for all, jobs for all, social justice for all, and let the chips fall where they may - because no matter how carefully Democrats cross every "t" and dot every "i" they will get shit on and there is nothing they can do to appease the Republicans and the media.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 12:35 PM on September 20, 2017 [68 favorites]

Like, am I missing something here?

I think the framing the GOP tries to offer is "your money is more important than your health and we're helping you keep more of your money."

There are people in reasonably good health who would rather go without insurance (and without savings accounts or emergency funds or what have you) than pay a single dime for something they don't need right now at this very moment. Until they actually are faced with the medical bills and realize that paying more for health care saved them money in the long run, they will not understand why you're stealing their hard earned beer dollars to pay for (in their minds) somebody else's healthcare.

Its not unlike the people who have no children (or whose children have graduated) voting against school funding. Like if it doesn't immediately effect them in an obvious way, they have no desire to pay into it.
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:38 PM on September 20, 2017 [7 favorites]

Sarah Kliff, Vox: I’ve covered the GOP repeal plans since day one. Graham-Cassidy is the most radical.

Other GOP bills shrank Obamacare programs. Graham-Cassidy eliminates them entirely.
...
Graham-Cassidy would lead to a dysfunctional individual market
...
Graham-Cassidy isn’t moving forward because it’s centrist. It’s getting traction because it’s the last option left.

posted by ZeusHumms at 12:39 PM on September 20, 2017 [24 favorites]

Charles Pierce: This New Healthcare Bill Wrecks Lives in Exchange for, What, Exactly? A few thoughts, and questions, about the Cassidy-Graham plan.

It’s still anyone’s guess if this dog’s breakfast even will get to a floor vote in the Senate. But the insistence on trying marks the Republican congressional majorities pretty lousy. They know the country doesn’t want this. They know that an effective majority of their members don’t want it. They know that governors of their own party don’t want it. And they know that the president* of their own party has moved on to threatening nuclear annihilation, among other hobbies. Why this fanatical pursuit of this one legislative goal? It can’t all be about money; none of the senators in question seems to be in danger of a serious primary challenge or of having the golden spigot turned off.

The only conclusion would seem to be that there is something in their political makeup that believes that the people who benefit from the ACA, and the people who would benefit if it were repaired and not destroyed, are unworthy of those benefits and that it is not the proper function of government to question this fundamental truth. (This, at least, is what Rand Paul is honest enough to say out loud.)

They will wreck lives to prove a point that isn’t even true to begin with, and on which they are such monumental hypocrites that even the elite political press is beginning to notice. (Much as has been the case with immigration, the people seeking to “hand power back to the states” are more than willing to take power away from the states if the states dare do on their own that which the senators are trying desperately to head off nationally.)

The Republicans Aren't Even Pretending This Is About Healthcare Anymore. They're too tired to lie.

What we are hearing now from a number of people is the open admission that the goal of the Republican Party, a death-cult based on human suffering, is to strip healthcare from those people who do not vote for them, and from people the conservative mind has adjudged are unworthy of its benefits. Many of these arguments are toweringly stupid, as we shall see. But at least it’s out in the open now.

posted by homunculus at 12:41 PM on September 20, 2017 [56 favorites]

More Pierce: Don't Let These Other Stories Get Lost in the News. Trump is poisoning our institutions of government in myriad ways.
posted by homunculus at 12:42 PM on September 20, 2017 [23 favorites]

Politico:

Senate Democrats are weighing whether they have enough procedural tricks — and stamina — to kill a possible GOP attempt to repeal Obamacare. The Democrats are considering whether they could force enough amendment votes on the Senate floor to run out the clock and effectively kill the Obamacare repeal, by taking debate past Sept. 30, when the GOP’s special procedural tool to pass a bill with just a simple majority expires.

posted by Chrysostom at 12:43 PM on September 20, 2017 [16 favorites]

Exclusive: North Korea 'secretly helped by Iran to gain nuclear weapons', British officials fear

Does... does the article go so far as to say that the British government has learned that North Korea helped Iran get nukes?

Anybody else chilly? Could swear I feel a draft...
posted by Rykey at 12:43 PM on September 20, 2017 [5 favorites]

It is beginning to smell a little bit like yellowcake in here
posted by BungaDunga at 12:46 PM on September 20, 2017 [12 favorites]

Meanwhile, 3.4 million US citizens are on an island with no power and the Governor is warning that there's a flood warning for the entire island. Paul Ryan is off doing photo ops over the Florida keys, but everybody in Congress is too busy taking away our health care to mention the humanitarian crisis happening in Puerto Rico right now?
posted by zachlipton at 12:49 PM on September 20, 2017 [46 favorites]

Weirdly, it seems he might be (if only in relation to wow, how huge is this storm, it's the biggest, right?):

President Trump said on Wednesday that he had “never seen” winds like the ones generated by Hurricane Maria as it made landfall in Puerto Rico.

“We have a big one going right now — I’ve never seen winds like this — in Puerto Rico,” he said as he entered a meeting in New York with King Abdullah II of Jordan. “You take a look at what’s happening there, and it’s just one after another.”

posted by BungaDunga at 12:53 PM on September 20, 2017 [1 favorite]

Trump probably figures Puerto Rico is part of the United States, but those people obviously aren't Americans. I mean, look at them. Big storm though! Good luck everybody!
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 12:54 PM on September 20, 2017 [4 favorites]

bibliowench: I called Senator Gardner's Denver office and couldn't even get a connection. I was able to get his voice mail at his D.C. Office, but I don't know how much those count compared to speaking to an actual person. But I'm guessing my inability to even get through to the local office indicates they're getting swamped […]

I've also just been getting a busy tone at Senator Fucking Gardner's Denver office number, but have had luck getting through to his Fort Collins office (970-484-3502). When I call his other offices and don't get through, I'm sent to voice mail—the Denver office always just immediately goes to a busy tone. I suspect that he just doesn't really want to talk to his constituents in the Boulder-Denver area.

I asked the staffer I reached today if the senator had established a position on Graham-Cassidy and was told that he had not, but was strongly committed to repealing and replacing the ACA. I gave him a long list of reasons that I urged him to reject Graham-Cassidy anyways and pursue a less shitty repeal-and-replace if he felt he needed to do that, but I don't know if that will make any difference.
posted by JiBB at 1:10 PM on September 20, 2017 [4 favorites]

There are people in reasonably good health who would rather go without insurance (and without savings accounts or emergency funds or what have you) than pay a single dime for something they don't need right now at this very moment.

Don't some of those same people drive reasonably good cars and have car insurance, and live in reasonably good homes and have homeowner's insurance? And if their car is in an accident or their house burns down they're taken care of because other people are paying for something they don't need right now?
posted by kirkaracha at 1:12 PM on September 20, 2017 [7 favorites]

"There are people in reasonably good health who would rather go without insurance (and without savings accounts or emergency funds or what have you) than pay a single dime for something they don't need right now at this very moment."

Don't some of those same people drive reasonably good cars and have car insurance, and live in reasonably good homes and have homeowner's insurance? And if their car is in an accident or their house burns down they're taken care of because other people are paying for something they don't need right now?

Of course they do and the response to that point is usually "the government shouldn't force me to buy insurance for homes or cars either because it encroaches on my freedom." The freedom in question is money. They believe they should have the freedom to spend it where they want to without having to worry about "future" or "emergency."
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:16 PM on September 20, 2017 [3 favorites]

Don't some of those same people drive reasonably good cars and have car insurance, and live in reasonably good homes and have homeowner's insurance? And if their car is in an accident or their house burns down they're taken care of because other people are paying for something they don't need right now?

They probably only have auto insurance to the extent that the state requires, that is, liability only and at the state minimum level (if not required by a lender to have collision coverage).
posted by ArgentCorvid at 1:18 PM on September 20, 2017 [1 favorite]

> President Trump said on Wednesday that he had “never seen” winds like the ones generated by Hurricane Maria as it made landfall in Puerto Rico.

Huh. But global warming is a Chinese hoax, you're still sure of that?
posted by RedOrGreen at 1:20 PM on September 20, 2017 [2 favorites]

Senate Democrats are weighing whether they have enough procedural tricks — and stamina — to kill a possible GOP attempt to repeal Obamacare.

They better have enough stamina. Republicans aren't playing pattycake here.
posted by Gelatin at 1:22 PM on September 20, 2017 [9 favorites]

I'm hearing that Chuck Grassley's phone is also going straight to voice mail. I wonder if they've finally decided that they don't care what constituents think and there's no point in picking up.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 1:22 PM on September 20, 2017 [1 favorite]

Update: Sen. Roy Blunt's DC staffer is a much nicer staffer than his Springfield office. Also, I was on speakerphone.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 1:31 PM on September 20, 2017 [9 favorites]

And I got through easy; Missouri-fites, get a callin'.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 1:33 PM on September 20, 2017 [11 favorites]

President Trump said on Wednesday that he had “never seen” winds like the ones generated by Hurricane Maria as it made landfall in Puerto Rico.

So Trump tweeted about Irma, "Hurricane looks like largest ever recorded in the Atlantic!" When asked a week later if he was rethinking climate change because of the size of Harvey and Irma, he says, "We’ve had bigger storms than this." But now hurricanes are back to being the biggest ever, good to know.
posted by peeedro at 1:36 PM on September 20, 2017 [7 favorites]

Trump's Africa speech invented the non-existent country of Nambia

We should declare war on Nambia! We might even win or at least not lose.
posted by srboisvert at 1:42 PM on September 20, 2017 [2 favorites]

Nambia's top export is covfefe!
posted by srboisvert at 1:42 PM on September 20, 2017 [32 favorites]

There are no Trump properties in Nambia!
posted by srboisvert at 1:43 PM on September 20, 2017 [4 favorites]

The Trump boys have been unable to get visas to kill Nambia's wildlife!
posted by srboisvert at 1:44 PM on September 20, 2017 [3 favorites]

The Prime Presidenter of Nambia didn't attend or donate to Trump's inauguration!
posted by srboisvert at 1:45 PM on September 20, 2017 [2 favorites]

Can someone work a Toto joke in here?
posted by fluttering hellfire at 1:47 PM on September 20, 2017 [3 favorites]

Are we sure Trump wasn't born in Nambia?
posted by Room 641-A at 1:47 PM on September 20, 2017 [11 favorites]

Ike Perlmutter is frustrated that Trump hasn't mentioned Wakanda... or for that matter, Latveria, where he assured him the real hackers were from.
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:48 PM on September 20, 2017 [12 favorites]

I honestly wonder, if this passes, if the legislators who voted this will suffer from reprisal violence from people who've lost loved ones due to medical issues.

When you play with people's lives, with their children's lives, you play a very dangerous game.

Especially given how often revenge is glorified in our media. There's a fair possibility of wannabe John Wicks deciding they haven't got anything left to lose after their wives and kids die.
posted by rifflesby at 1:48 PM on September 20, 2017 [1 favorite]

Someone should get Trump a copy of The Chronicles of Nambia.
posted by homunculus at 1:49 PM on September 20, 2017 [3 favorites]

Perlmutter is the top guy at Marvel Comics and a Trump supporter, for those of you who aren't knowledgeable in both areas.
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:50 PM on September 20, 2017 [6 favorites]

Can someone work a Toto joke in here?

Gonna take a lot to drag me away from you
That's something that 100 Nambians could never do
Bless covfefe down in Aaaaaafricaaaaaa
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:50 PM on September 20, 2017 [23 favorites]

Can someone work a Toto joke in here?

🎼 I bless the rains down in Nambia
posted by BungaDunga at 1:52 PM on September 20, 2017 [10 favorites]

I'm on a serious dystopian spree, because apparently I have no common sense, and in these books (Zone One, Dog Star) there is no Trump and although even there are zombies and barbarians, it's really soothing! People are not fucking around with bullshit because it is the end times! People are heroes (before they get eaten)!

Me too!! I just found myself only being able to get into dystopian apocolypsy right now. Zone One is next in the pile. After that Windup Girl. I read Station Eleven (fabulous) and the 5th Wave last week. I just finished a book about what it was like to live in the year 1000 in Britain and am almost finished the Time Traveller's Guide to Medieval England. Not dystopian but not a world state I'd like to live in.
posted by Jalliah at 1:56 PM on September 20, 2017 [8 favorites]

Trump also has fond memories of a spring backpacking trip through Franchia and Schvitz.
posted by allthinky at 1:59 PM on September 20, 2017 [8 favorites]

Health care is stressing us the heck out and the scene is set for it, so...

ok it is time again for that pup dancing to totos africa it is time [slvine]
posted by zachlipton at 1:59 PM on September 20, 2017 [14 favorites]

The pompous jerk who answers the phones at Jeff Flake's office is finally starting to sound a little bit frazzled when he tells me he'll pass my comments along. And McCain's local office voicemail box is full. So, there's that.
posted by Weeping_angel at 2:02 PM on September 20, 2017 [13 favorites]

Someone should get Trump a copy of The Chronicles of Nambia.

I loved that series! Particularly The Liar, the Wretch, and the Russia Probe
posted by nubs at 2:02 PM on September 20, 2017 [70 favorites]

Also, INDIANA mefites, I'm going to get personal, here. My dearest is a resident of your state, low income, and a transwoman. Her care comes from Planned Parenthood. Graham-Cassidy may make continuing her care expensive, difficult, and maybe impossible. Sen. Todd Young is undecided. Please call his office and pitch a fit.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 2:03 PM on September 20, 2017 [31 favorites]

OMG did you meet Louise Linton?
posted by fluttering hellfire at 2:05 PM on September 20, 2017 [13 favorites]

Sen. Todd Young is undecided. Please call his office and pitch a fit.

Pfft, Todd Young's not undecided. Fucker's totally in the tank for Trump and the Tea Party when it comes time to vote, though he pretends to be Independent in His Thinking and Very Concerned. But I regularly call his office to complain about him, and will pitch a fit on your behalf.
posted by Rykey at 2:09 PM on September 20, 2017 [9 favorites]

By all means call every Senator, but Todd Young is not going to make a difference. Murkowski and McCain will. Anyone else would be the 4th or 5th no vote.
posted by Justinian at 2:12 PM on September 20, 2017 [1 favorite]

I just found myself only being able to get into dystopian apocolypsy right now

A slightly different genre, but I highly recommend Jo Walton's Small Change trilogy. Great stuff!

The [first] novel is set in the 1949 of an alternate history. Though the divergence point from actual history seems to be Rudolf Hess's flight to Scotland in May 1941, it is implied in the novel's sequel Ha'penny that the critical difference was the failure of the United States to provide aid to Britain in 1940. With Britain lacking American support, Hess's entreaties for peace negotiations were accepted, and have led to a peace between the United Kingdom and Nazi Germany (against Winston Churchill's wishes), and to Britain withdrawing from World War II. The war continues mainly as a stalemate between Germany and the Soviet Union. The United States never became involved in the conflict, and Charles Lindbergh is president of a peaceful country seeking closer economic ties to the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere.

The novel was inspired by Walton's analysis of the setting of Josephine Tey's Brat Farrar.

posted by Coventry at 2:15 PM on September 20, 2017 [9 favorites]

Folks, it's only Wednesday...

[continues furious SVU watching...]
posted by waitangi at 2:17 PM on September 20, 2017 [1 favorite]

A couple of years ago I worked on a project where I spent two weeks in Zambia and then a week in Namibia, so this is just even more evidence that my oxygen-starved brain is jamming random memories together as I hallucinate month eight of the obviously fictitious Trump presidency.

And it's equally relieving to find out that none of this is real and I'm just a product of your fevered imagination. Get some sleep and dream about something better!
posted by GalaxieFiveHundred at 2:17 PM on September 20, 2017 [2 favorites]

Here's my thinking on calling R senators who are clearly yes votes: They all talk to each other. They know the tally of calls each is getting. The pushback on this creates ripple effects. It changes what they think is possible. It lets them know we are watching.

And anyway, if I weren't calling, I wouldn't be able to live with myself in the future.
posted by mcduff at 2:17 PM on September 20, 2017 [29 favorites]

Convincing other Republican SenateCreatures (to go along with CongressCreatures) that they would become the "4th or 5th" to vote NO will provide them with some of the cover these cowards need. If somebody believes that their NO vote won't hurt them but it's going to fail anyway, it may ensure its failure. Maybe by one "oops" vote. Profiles In Not-Courage.
posted by oneswellfoop at 2:21 PM on September 20, 2017 [2 favorites]

I mean Roy Blunt has done everything short of giving Trump a rusty trombone on the National Mall, but I still call because he's supposed to represent me.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 2:22 PM on September 20, 2017 [7 favorites]

I agree, oneswellfoop, the best course of action is to contact all of them. I was saying that if you're only going to contact one or two you should probably contact those most likely to be the deciding votes.
posted by Justinian at 2:24 PM on September 20, 2017

I'm with you, McDuff. It's almost literally the least I can do to register a HELL NO with my elected reps. Plus anything I can do to make Todd Young's job harder, or even less appealing, is worth it. And if he's (miraculously) the fourth or fifth no vote, that's another vote or two that will drive Trump and McConnell up the wall.
posted by Rykey at 2:25 PM on September 20, 2017 [1 favorite]

“You know, I could maybe give you 10 reasons why this bill shouldn’t be considered,” Grassley said. “But Republicans campaigned on this so often that you have a responsibility to carry out what you said in the campaign. That’s pretty much as much of a reason as the substance of the bill.”

I called a regional office of Grassley, my senator. I gave the quote and asked if they could suggest one or even ten reasons the bill shouldn't be considered. The staffer was dumbfounded, assumed I had misspoken and was actually talking about another bill, and so I read him the Des Moines Register article. We had a long conversation in which the staffer suggested that the CBO wasn't always reliable, to which I suggested that we should maybe still wait for them to publish their calculations regarding whether millions of people will lose access to affordable healthcare. He said that there was a deadline and they had to get something done, to which I said that the deadline was an artificial attempt to prevent the CBO from scoring the bill with regard to coverage and premiums, and that any bill that receives sufficient support in the Senate either through reconciliation or otherwise could be passed in October, but that it seemed Republicans were willing to risk the early deaths of thousands of Americans in exchange for getting this shoved through quickly. I expressed that one hearing and ninety seconds of debate was insufficient for a bill that would transform the American economy and possibly kill thousands of people. In summary, I expressed that I shared Senator Grassley's doubts about this particular amendment.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:27 PM on September 20, 2017 [78 favorites]

For fuck's sake. Every single American should be calling their senators.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 2:28 PM on September 20, 2017 [12 favorites]

Kilimnik wrote in the July 29 email that he had met that day with the person “who gave you the biggest black caviar jar several years ago,” ... Kilimnik said it would take some time to discuss the “long caviar story,” and the two agreed to meet in New York.

Wow, incredible spycraft there. This sounds nothing like cartoon Russian villainy. You know, the guy, with the caviar.
posted by BungaDunga at 2:32 PM on September 20, 2017 [14 favorites]

People close to Manafort told The Post that he and Kilimnik used coded language as a precaution because they were transmitting sensitive information internationally.

Sounds way more secure than sending messages with Signal.
posted by Coventry at 2:36 PM on September 20, 2017 [1 favorite]

Just to remind you, our other senator is a badass and this is how she feels about the republicans and healthcare. I know this is from the first round of awfulness, but all of her arguments hold up.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 2:38 PM on September 20, 2017 [1 favorite]

ONLYTHEBESTPEOPLEBESTTHEONLYPEOPLETHEBESTONL

is on now bro
posted by entropicamericana at 2:39 PM on September 20, 2017

If someone doesn't use the title "The Worst and Dumbest" for a history of this administration, I will be very disappointed.
posted by Chrysostom at 2:44 PM on September 20, 2017 [4 favorites]

For those who are anxious about making calls to senators and read all of these great arguments that fellow MeFis make when calling, I want you to know that you don't have to argue or convince. For the most part, staffers are just keeping a tally of yes/no. So don't think you aren't qualified to call or that your argument won't be persuasive. Here's an all-purpose script you can use:

"Hi. My name is X and my zipcode is Y. May I leave a message for the Senator? I would like to ask him/her to vote yes/no on Z. Thank you and have a nice day."

That's it. I hate hate hate talking on the phone to strangers but I find that this isn't so bad. Also, feel free to call after hours if you'd rather just leave a voicemail. Be sure to include your zipcode in your message.

You can do this!
posted by mcduff at 2:46 PM on September 20, 2017 [41 favorites]

Surely you want "Worst and Dimmest" to contrast with "Best and Brightest"
posted by soelo at 2:46 PM on September 20, 2017 [4 favorites]

NEW from WaPo: Manafort offered to give Russian billionaire ‘private briefings’ on 2016 campaign...

So Manafort was a straight-up, honest-to-goodness Russian agent. Is that where we're at now? I've been contemplating taking a break from the current Trumpocalypse thread to go back and re-read some threads from, say, December or March. Should be interesting reading in light of everything that's come to light in the intervening ~~decades~~ ~~years~~ months.
posted by GalaxieFiveHundred at 2:47 PM on September 20, 2017 [7 favorites]

"Worst and Shadiest"?
posted by oneswellfoop at 2:48 PM on September 20, 2017 [1 favorite]

People close to Manafort told The Post that he and Kilimnik used coded language as a precaution because they were transmitting sensitive information internationally.

Um, like, "leasepay animpulatemay the electionay, anksthay!"?
posted by Hairy Lobster at 2:49 PM on September 20, 2017 [9 favorites]

Paulie! How's the ORANGE CAVIAR? Malleable? Yes? I think UNCLE V would do a deal to trade CHECKS FOR ROCKS if he can . . . spread out evenly on a cracker. By the FIRST ELEPHANT SHOW, say. 27. Omaha. Hut.
posted by petebest at 2:53 PM on September 20, 2017 [10 favorites]

so re: contacting Murkowski from out of state
anybody have an Alaska-specific script?
I mean, the buy-off that might be in the works doesn't mean that people there still won't be fucked, right?
posted by angrycat at 2:54 PM on September 20, 2017

angrycat, you could quote Murkowski many times saying how important it is to get information regarding a bill before you vote on it, and then suggest waiting for the Congressional Budget Office to score the bill with regard to its effect on coverage and premiums before voting "yes", because otherwise thousands of people could die early
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:57 PM on September 20, 2017 [2 favorites]

I had to stop myself from asking ted cruz staff if he was busy pupating his eggs , or if he could stop glistening long enough to slide into his human skin and stop trying to kill the human race. So, I waited until I could leave a voice mail instead. Hoping his porno staffer gets it, truthfully.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 3:00 PM on September 20, 2017 [38 favorites]

One last thing for people who haven't every called their elected officials but are considering doing it: I bet if you post here after you make your first call, you'll get A LOT of congratulations and support. I know I will cheer you on.
posted by mcduff at 3:08 PM on September 20, 2017 [11 favorites]

I had never called a member of Congress until January. (The Muslim ban got me to make that first call.) Now I have a meeting with my Republican House rep in less than two hours. I'm pretty nervous that I'll lose my cool. I didn't think I would actually get the meeting. It's only 15 minutes, but still. I have decided to try to steer the middle course between tearful begging and angry ranting by going into didactic professor mode. Probably not very persuasive, but it's what I know. I even printed off Power Point slides! No profanity -- only the mildest sarcasm -- and only one pie chart.

I really wish I could educate him about Russian election interference, because I've got a feeling he just does not read those stories. At all. But it's all hands on deck for healthcare right now. I've got a mix of medical and economic information enlivened, I hope, with personal stories about my family (PKU etc.) We'll see how it goes. I'll count it a victory if I don't cry, scream, or hyperventilate.
posted by OnceUponATime at 3:19 PM on September 20, 2017 [119 favorites]

Posting to Senators' facebook pages. Does this even register? Just calling Senator Grassley isn't doing it for me this time.
posted by Fezboy! at 3:31 PM on September 20, 2017

NEW from WaPo: Manafort offered to give Russian billionaire ‘private briefings’ on 2016 campaign

So that's Oleg Deripaska, this guy, you know, just the mobbed up oligarch who was asking for immunity back in May to testify about what he knows about Russian involvement in the election. That's the guy who Manafort was offering to brief in the middle of a busy campaign, despite the fact that it would be illegal to solicit a cent in campaign contributions from him. Nothing suspicious here at all.
posted by zachlipton at 3:31 PM on September 20, 2017 [18 favorites]

the mobbed up oligarch who was asking for immunity back in May to testify about what he knows about Russian involvement in the election. That's the guy who Manafort was offering to brief

Probably a coincidence. Let's do doughnuts on the school lawn!
posted by petebest at 3:38 PM on September 20, 2017 [3 favorites]

NEW from WaPo: Manafort offered to give Russian billionaire ‘private briefings’ on 2016 campaign

The Washington Post has somehow forgotten its own reporting for its scoop. Back in June they identified Konstantin Kilimnik - Manafort's liaison with Putin's oligarch ally Oleg Deripaska - as being educated "at a military school that some experts consider a training ground for Russian spies".

Later Politico dug deeper into his past and confirmed, as much as one can in the wilderness of mirrors, that Kilimnik had been a GRU agent just before the USSR's collapse.

Kilimnik did not hide his military past from his new employer [the International Republican Institute]. In fact, when he was asked how he learned to speak such fluent English, he responded “Russian military intelligence,” according to one IRI official, who quipped, “I never called [the Russian military intelligence agency] GRU headquarters for a reference.”

It soon became an article of faith in IRI circles that Kilimnik had been in the intelligence service, according to five people who worked in and around the group in Moscow, who said Kilimnik never sought to correct that impression.

“It was like ‘Kostya, the guy from the GRU’ — that’s how we talked about him,” said a political operative who worked in Moscow at the time. “The institute was informed that he was GRU, but it didn’t matter at the time because they weren’t doing anything sensitive.”

Now that the news from the Capitol Hill is leaking out at a steady rate, the Fourth Estate needs to provide a proper context more than ever, not these airport thriller Cliff Notes.
posted by Doktor Zed at 3:45 PM on September 20, 2017 [40 favorites]

Fezboy!: "Posting to Senators' facebook pages. Does this even register? Just calling Senator Grassley isn't doing it for me this time."

I mean, it doesn't HURT. But I think the understanding is that responses on social media are pretty much ignored.
posted by Chrysostom at 3:47 PM on September 20, 2017

Manafort covers Tina Turner [fake]:

I'm your private briefer, a briefer for money
I'll do what you want me to do
I'm your private briefer, a briefer for money
And any old treason will do
posted by Lyme Drop at 3:48 PM on September 20, 2017 [4 favorites]

remember when we didn't have to call our senators every few weeks and beg them not to kill us?

good times
posted by entropicamericana at 3:49 PM on September 20, 2017 [52 favorites]

Mother Jones: Trump Is Helping Airlines Get Away With Breaking People’s Wheelchairs

A new federal rule written by the Obama administration was supposed to change that. Beginning on January 1, 2018, the rule would have required airlines to track, and report on a monthly basis, how many wheelchairs and motorized scooters each airline carries and how many they break or mishandle. That would allow disabled travelers to easily assess which airlines to use and which to avoid.

But then Donald Trump’s administration stepped in. Just weeks after Trump took office, the Department of Transportation bowed to pressure from airline industry lobbyists and abruptly delayed the new rule—with no input from the public.

The result is that the airline industry continues to treat wheelchairs the same as all other baggage with the result that often customized wheelchairs are broken or go missing. When you go on vacation and your chair is missing you have to spend a few days lying in a hotel room, waiting for its reappearance which can lead to pressure sores.

Dodson says that airlines damaging or losing wheelchairs or scooters is so common that when Paralyzed Veterans of America hold their annual National Veterans Wheelchair Games, the group makes sure wheelchair repair technicians are on hand with as many spare-parts as possible to deal with the inevitable problems. Similar steps are taken when the group holds board of directors meetings.

If the airlines had to keep track of the number of chairs and scooters that go missing/ get broken then passengers could make more informed decisions about which airline to choose. This way the airlines have no incentive to change their methods.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:58 PM on September 20, 2017 [75 favorites]

Gah.

The two political issues that are at the forefront of my mind are:

1. That our elected "representatives" don't drag us back to an even worse, more cruelly negligent, health care system than we had before the ACA, and

2. That the Mueller investigation doesn't just end up as another Ollie North - Scooter Libby scenario, where some flunkie is indicted, but all the real decision makers skate off on the thin ice of a new day, scot-free.

And it occurs to me that these are terrible things to have my political focus on, and there are so many areas of actual progress I should be spending my psychic energy on instead. But we're stuck in this damage control mode because Trump and the Republicans in Congress are freaking CORRUPT.
posted by darkstar at 3:58 PM on September 20, 2017 [10 favorites]

In which Lindsey Graham is overheard by a tipster at DCA begging someone, presumably his best buddy McCain, to support his bill despite "all its imperfections." Graham also claimed on the call to talk to Trump three times a day.
posted by zachlipton at 4:05 PM on September 20, 2017 [38 favorites]

They're really trying to blow the Senate advantage they have in 2018.

The Hill: W.Va. GOP governor backs Manchin for Senate: report

West Virginia's newly-Republican Gov. Jim Justice said Wednesday that he is supporting Sen. Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.) against his own party's Senate nominee in 2018. Justice, a former Democrat who switched party affiliations last month, is already bucking his new party according to a Metro News report. He pointed to Manchin's willingness to work with President Trump as well as the friendship between the two as key reasons for his decision.

“Joe Manchin has been a friend of mine,” Justice told a crowd of West Virginia Republicans on Monday. “Now he may be a terrible person to y’all but Joe has been a friend of mine, and I’m going to tell you this as straight up as I can be: Joe Manchin is becoming a very key, integral part with Donald Trump. And I’m going to take my read off of Donald Trump. Joe Manchin is — and I know this — Joe Manchin is Donald Trump’s liaison with the Democrats," he said. "And you want, and I want, what Donald Trump is trying to get done.”

The remarks shocked Republicans in the state and came just hours after West Virginia's GOP chairman told Buzzfeed News that he was confident Justice would be supporting conservative candidates in 2018.

posted by chris24 at 4:14 PM on September 20, 2017 [13 favorites]

At this point my weekly letters to Marco Rubio are just me saying "we see you" and mentioning the year 2022.
posted by penduluum at 4:15 PM on September 20, 2017 [16 favorites]

Just to feed the dream of Mueller getting them all...

@Bencjacobs
Chris Christie on MSNBC is essentially throwing Mike Pence under the bus for involving Mike Flynn in the transition and the WH

@MiekeEoyang Retweeted Ben Jacobs
Reminder, Christie was running transition efforts & had picked @RepMikeRogers to head national security efforts till sidelined.

---

And of course, Manafort picked Pence.

Daily Beast 11/30/16: Paul Manafort Is Back and Advising Donald Trump on Cabinet Picks

According to two sources with knowledge of the Trump presidential transition process, Manafort—whose formal association with the president-elect ended in August—is heavily involved with the staffing of the nascent administration. ...

“When they’re picking a cabinet, unless he contacts me, I don’t bother him,” one former campaign official who worked closely with Manafort told The Daily Beast. “It’s a heady time for everyone. I think he’s weighing in on everything,” the former official said, “I think he still talks to Trump every day. I mean, Pence? That was all Manafort. Pence is on the phone with Manafort regularly.”

As a lobbyist, Manafort is particularly concerned with decisions the president-elect might make that will affect his industry, the former official explained. “A guy like Manafort tries to make sure that the government is as comfortable for business as possible. He wants names he knows on every door.”

posted by chris24 at 4:26 PM on September 20, 2017 [31 favorites]

Can someone remind me what the connection is between Manafort and Tillerson? That should be the next thing to blow up, right?
posted by fluttering hellfire at 4:29 PM on September 20, 2017

The remarks shocked Republicans in the state and came just hours after West Virginia's GOP chairman told Buzzfeed News that he was confident Justice would be supporting conservative candidates in 2018.

Manchin is the Conservative candidate. His Republican opponent will be from the Unbridled Evil wing of the party.
posted by Slap*Happy at 4:29 PM on September 20, 2017 [15 favorites]

Pence is in it as deep as Trump himself, but if we get to impeachment it won't be till 2018 and only if there's Speaker Pelosi too. Pence will be untouchable. Even if Republicans somehow impeached Trump, they're not handing over the Presidency.

Agree. No way we get a Prez Pelosi. But an Agnew/Ford situation would be possible. Pence resigns, a clean VP put in - Kasich? Then impeach or force Trump to resign. If it ever comes to that.
posted by chris24 at 4:33 PM on September 20, 2017 [5 favorites]

Even if Republicans somehow impeached Trump, they're not handing over the Presidency.

If they impeach before 2018, they have President Liftbro... no, wait, he's dirty as fuck, too. President Hatch. First Mormon president! Also a mainstream conservative who hates Russia and likes a fully funded state department and the AARP endorsing his re-election.
posted by Slap*Happy at 4:34 PM on September 20, 2017 [1 favorite]

If they impeach before 2018, they have President Liftbro

Now wait a minute, have you heard the gospel of our Lord and Saviour, Ayn Rand?
posted by Justinian at 4:38 PM on September 20, 2017 [5 favorites]

> President Hatch. First Mormon president

dang though can you imagine how pissed Mitt Romney would be if Orrin Hatch ended up fulfilling the white horse prophecy?
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 4:58 PM on September 20, 2017 [22 favorites]

But an Agnew/Ford situation would be possible. Pence resigns, a clean VP put in - Kasich? Then impeach or force Trump to resign. If it ever comes to that.

I'm surprised so few people are viewing it this way. If Pence is dirty they can just lean on him to resign first and then, by way of the 25th amendment, they could install literally anyone who could get the support of a majority of both chambers (i.e., at this point, any Republican, especially a senator or governor). Then when president shit-for-brains finally flames out, that person would become president. It needn't have anything at all to do with the chain of succession beyond VP. Why stop at Kasich? Why not Graham himself, for instance?
posted by Joey Buttafoucault at 5:01 PM on September 20, 2017 [1 favorite]

Talking Points Memo: What About the Tarmac Interlude?

...I must again raise that hour long interlude on Air Force One two days prior to Comey’s dismissal. Giving the timeline we’ve discussed earlier, there’s very good reason to believe that Comey’s imminent firing was what Trump and his aides were discussing.

Remember, Trump spent the weekend at Bedminster fuming about Comey and returned to Washington with his decision made. But the key in my mind has always been who was with him on Air Force that evening. Trump has two broad classes of advisors. The toady enablers and the semi-grown-ups...That weekend and on that plane ride home, he had the all star class of Trump toadies: Hope Hicks, Jared Kushner, KT McFarland, Stephen Miller and Dan Scavino. The worst and the stupidest.
...
Those conversation that weekend and the particularly the one that kept the six on the tarmac for an hour that Sunday evening must be where the most unvarnished and inane conversations about the need to fire Comey took place. Mueller must want to know more about what they discussed.

posted by kirkaracha at 5:01 PM on September 20, 2017 [10 favorites]

Perhaps Air Force 1 needs a CVR for the passenger cabin.
posted by phliar at 5:17 PM on September 20, 2017 [1 favorite]

It all comes back to MeFi's favorite rule.

@crampell: Remember how Trump bragged about getting Manafort's services for free? If you aren't paying, you're not the customer -- you're the product
posted by zachlipton at 5:25 PM on September 20, 2017 [80 favorites]

What's that Manafort guy up to now anyway? NYT: Manafort Working on Kurdish Referendum Opposed by U.S.

Paul J. Manafort, the former campaign chairman for President Trump who is at the center of investigations into Russian meddling in the 2016 presidential election, is working for allies of the leader of Iraq’s Kurdish region to help administer and promote a referendum on Kurdish independence from Iraq.

The United States opposes the referendum, but Mr. Manafort has carved out a long and lucrative career advising foreign clients whose interests have occasionally diverged from American foreign policy. And he has continued soliciting international business even as his past international work has become a focus of the investigation by the special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, into ties between Russia and Mr. Trump and his associates, including possible collusion between them to influence the presidential election.

In fact, the work for the Kurdish group appears to have been initiated this summer around the time that federal authorities working for Mr. Mueller raided Mr. Manafort’s home in Virginia and informed him that they planned to indict him.

Manafort has not registered as a foreign agent for this work, though whether he needs to depends on exactly what he's up to. Previously, Flynn worked to scuttle the Obama plan to arm the Kurds to fight ISIS after he took Turkish money. All of this brings us back to one of the fundamentals of US foreign policy, as explained in verse by Calvin Trillin way back in 2003:

The Kurds are in the way again,
And so, to our dismay again,
If we begin a fray again,
As it appears we may again,
It seems we must betray again
The Kurds: They’re in the way again.

posted by zachlipton at 5:31 PM on September 20, 2017 [12 favorites]

In light of recent news of North Korean merchant ships making stops at Russian ports to take on full loads of cargo, and then returning to North Korea rather than adhering to their stated itinerary, I have made a request to my Senator, Jack Reed, on his website.

I have asked for a Letter of Marque, and he can attach it to any bill he likes. I shall be granted the right to seize any North Korean ship that embarks from Russia or Ukraine, and in return, the United States Navy shall have the right to inspect and purchase at fair market value any and all cargo thus obtained.

I don't care that I don't have a pirate ship. I just want the treasonous fucksticks to squirm while voting it down.

Tomorrow, I shall be writing the Rep I hate least with the same request.

You should do the same.
posted by Slap*Happy at 5:38 PM on September 20, 2017 [31 favorites]

Sadly, the Kurds are the only ones doing anything useful against ISIL. Meanwhile we continue to buddy up to the massive cock that's making the Turkish border more porous than a sieve.
posted by Talez at 5:39 PM on September 20, 2017 [9 favorites]

I just heard something on tumblr about the protests in St. Louis? Apparently a synagogue opened its doors to some beleaguered protesters and the st. Louis police gassed the synagogue with tear gas to try and get to the protesters? is this true? Did American police gas a synagogue?
posted by Homo neanderthalensis at 5:44 PM on September 20, 2017

meanwhile in Madison, WI:

Swastikas and “Trump Rules” found on plaque outside Madison synagogue building

On the eve of Rosh Hashanah, the first of the Jewish High Holy Days, swastikas were found spray painted in red on a stone monument outside of Gates of Heaven, located in James Madison Park. The synagogue building, one of the oldest in the country, is slated to host holiday services Wednesday evening and Thursday.

“Trump Rules” and “Antifa Sucks” were also scrawled across the plaque. The monument commemorates the Wisconsin men in the Abraham Lincoln Brigade who volunteered to fight against General Francisco Franco's fascist forces in the Spanish Civil War. Madison police spokesperson Joel DeSpain says officers were called to the scene around 8:30 a.m. Wednesday. A city worker was power-washing the graffiti off the monument at around 9:45 a.m.

posted by BungaDunga at 5:50 PM on September 20, 2017 [8 favorites]

Did American police gas a synagogue?

And a pizza place.
posted by adamg at 5:50 PM on September 20, 2017 [14 favorites]

Yeah, the synagogue (Unitarians too) did shelter protesters, but apparently the tear gas was only threatened [HuffPo] for those who returned outside. I'm gonna trust JWeekly on this. This [HuffPo] includes up-to-date follow-ups from the SLPD.

Fleisher said he spoke to an officer who told him police weren’t going to go after people in the building. Some time later, an officer came to the door and noted that anybody who was in the synagogue could stay there ― but any protester who left would do so at their own risk.

“Because the order to disperse was already given, anyone who exited the space was subject to arrest if they chose not to disperse from the streets,” Schron Jackson, a spokeswoman for the St. Louis police department, told HuffPost in an email. “The [Central Reform Congregation] was aware of this.”

Across the street, other protesters took refuge in the First Unitarian Church. On church property outside, police threatened to arrest or pepper-spray people who didn’t go inside the building, said Lynn Hunt, a religious educator with the church. Police never attempted to go inside, she said. She and Rev. Gary James said they saw one arrest on church property. James told an officer that the police did not have the authority to make arrests of people gathered peacefully there.

“I’m not sure if arrests were made on the Church/Congregation property, as we have multiple arrests at that intersection,” said Jackson, the police spokeswoman.

So they didn't threaten to teargas the actual synagogue or current occupants thereof. It still sucks that we're back to Hunchback of Notre Dame levels of civil protections, though. (There was a #GasTheSynagogue hashtag thing, FYI.)
posted by dhartung at 5:54 PM on September 20, 2017 [15 favorites]

From the tarmac interlude, linked upthread: the Talking Points Memo analysis from Josh Marshall--a journalist who has done extraordinary work, who is writing once again an articulate and insightful examination of yet another of the most important moments of the forty-fifth presidency of the United States, a nightmare we continue to live--included the word 'stupidest'.

We have arrived at a point where 'stupidest' is the exact right word.

It is the stupidest timeline.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 6:14 PM on September 20, 2017 [8 favorites]

The Hill: West Coast states eye early presidential primaries.

Democratic candidates considering a run for president in 2020 will have to make their case early to voters on the liberal Left Coast, if officials in key western states get their way.

Officials in California, Oregon and Washington are taking steps to move their presidential primary contests toward the front of the nominating calendar. They say they want voters in their states to have more influence over the candidates the two parties will nominate, and holding earlier contests is key to expanding that influence.

posted by TWinbrook8 at 6:22 PM on September 20, 2017 [4 favorites]

Trump probably figures Puerto Rico is part of the United States, but those people obviously aren't Americans. I mean, look at them. Big storm though! Good luck everybody!

We've talked about ironic and quotative racism. The residents of Puerto Rico are mostly white Hispanic. They see themselves as white. Trump is presumably familiar with Nuyoricans. If he was saying anything of the sort, if he was making that leap to seeing them as not-american-because-not-white, he'd be doing it based on moronic white supremacist constructions of race. There is no need to reproduce those constructions here, particularly since he HASN'T expressed anything of the sort.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 6:26 PM on September 20, 2017 [4 favorites]

All Things Considered's take on the Kimmel / Cassidy thing was "Kimmel called Cassidy a liar, Cassidy said Kimmel doesn't understand the bill" and left it at that. No attempt made whatsoever to explain the actual facts of the matter, or get someone on the air who had looked at the bill. Just "he said, he said".
posted by BungaDunga at 6:31 PM on September 20, 2017 [23 favorites]

I typically don't care much for Jimmy Kimmel. However, good on him for calling Cassidy a liar. My mind fucking boggles on the daily that media and news people aren't calling all these assholes out on being lying liars who lie. I hope Kimmel has started something by saying it.
posted by fluffy battle kitten at 6:36 PM on September 20, 2017 [27 favorites]

BungaDunga: "All Things Considered's take on the Kimmel / Cassidy thing was "Kimmel called Cassidy a liar, Cassidy said Kimmel doesn't understand the bill" and left it at that. No attempt made whatsoever to explain the actual facts of the matter, or get someone on the air who had looked at the bill. Just "he said, he said"."

That's NPR's standard schtick and why I can't listen to them these days.
posted by octothorpe at 6:39 PM on September 20, 2017 [43 favorites]

I finally got around to listening to some Pod Save America and i can't tell you how refreshing it is to hear people (besides me and my friends) saying, out loud, "Trump is stupid".
posted by TWinbrook8 at 6:42 PM on September 20, 2017 [11 favorites]

Frustratingly, Washington Post and Vox also had pieces about the Kimmel / Cassidy exchange, and both closed their particular articles with Cassidy's reply, in which he says Kimmel doesn't understand the bill, and then left it at that. (Not linked because they're poor attempts at journalism.)

They had other pieces to round out coverage, Wapo with their "How well does Jimmy Kimmel understand the GOP health-care bill?" piece; Vox with "GOP senators are rushing to pass Graham-Cassidy. We asked 9 to explain what it does.".

In their rush to report that Cassidy replied, it's like they only had time to write half an article. If I only had time to read one of those two, I'd think Cassidy was right, and had the last word.
posted by fragmede at 6:43 PM on September 20, 2017 [3 favorites]

It's pretty clear that no one understands the bill, including Cassidy. They are still shoving pork into it to try to get it to pass.
posted by Coventry at 6:51 PM on September 20, 2017 [4 favorites]

What's that Manafort guy up to now anyway?

Mueller needs to move quickly to get Manafort in custody, I'm expecting him to wake up with a bad case of polonium poisoning any day now.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:58 PM on September 20, 2017 [7 favorites]

Military Times: Turkish state media boasts about new missile, ability to shoot down US aircraft

Turkey’s state run news agency Anadolu on Wednesday published an infographic showcasing the capabilities of the country’s new Russian-acquired S-400 missile defense system — and its ability to shoot down U.S. aircraft.

The graphic from the NATO ally’s news agency explains that the new S-400 can hit targets at 400 km away at 4.8 km per second. The infographic also says it can eliminate U.S. aircraft such as the B-52 Stratofortress, B-1 Lancer, F-15, F-16, F-22 Raptor, and several other high tech U.S. aircraft.

Completely normal for a NATO ally to do this. So much winning!
posted by chris24 at 7:01 PM on September 20, 2017 [33 favorites]

Update on my meeting with my congressman... I got through my whole power point deck. (He poked gentle fun at me for bringing it, which I accepted as deserved.) I did not cry. I did get the chance to explain the healthcare economics of rare diseases. He mostly just listened politely, which was fine with me.

Our only substantive back and forth was when he said that the repeal of the mandate wouldn't blow up the individual market because not as many people signed up as projected anyway, despite the mandate. I said that could be fixed with better enforcement, essentially. He said "Throw them in jail?" I said "Make it a tax officially if you like. It's effectively a tax anyway. People don't like to pay taxes, I get that. But they need to." He agreed it was basically a tax and asked why people should be forced to pay for others' healthcare. I responded by saying that I'm sure lots of people don't want to pay for car insurance either. But then they get in accidents and other people have to pay the cost. I said even young healthy people can get hit by a bus. I said I never needed $50,000 per year medicine either until I had a baby with a genetic disease I never expected. Luckily I had insurance. When people who don't want to pay for insurance have unexpected health problems, others end up paying for their care. (Yes, I was explaining the basic concept of insurance.)

Other than that... He stopped me when I said even middle class people rely on Medicaid to pay for nursing home care for their elderly relatives, because nursing home care is so ruinously expensive. He said he thought Medicaid should be saved for people like that who are sick and disabled, and not spent on able bodied young people. I said Graham-Cassidy makes no such distinction. It just block-grants Medicaid and then cuts it -- there's no way to say you're only cutting Medicaid to young and healthy people.

I quoted the form letter he sent to me in April back to him, about protecting people with pre-existing conditions, and then quoted the sections of Graham-Cassidy which allow insurers to charge people with pre-existing conditions whatever they want. I told him voting for that was not consistent with his promise. I think that was the most satisfying moment for me. After that he was in a worse mood and kind of eager to get me out the door.

He did try to tell me he'd heard from people who wanted to repeal Obamacare in much greater numbers, during the campaign, outnumbering those who wanted to keep it six or seven to one. I told him people like me were complacent. I told him we never thought it would really happen. I told him I hoped he was hearing from us now. And then and aide came to the door, I was dismissed.
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:22 PM on September 20, 2017 [268 favorites]

asked why people should be forced to pay for others' healthcare.

I am never, ever, ever going to understand this point of view.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 7:30 PM on September 20, 2017 [72 favorites]

I also read off a bulleted list of things I wished I had time to talk with him about and didn't, right at the beginning of the meeting.

*Russia -- patriotic duty of all in Congress to protect our democracy

* Trump profiting from presidency -- opportunities for corruption are rift. Hold Trump to account as you would a Democrat.

* Immigration -- Immigration crackdowns are bad for the economy. DREAMers have committed no crime.

*Budget -- Slashing funding for State Dept, foreign aid, etc. is just going to lead to a lot more spending on war, as Mattis said

* Refugees -- at least 75,000. It's the least we can do.

I left him with a copy of all my slides, including that list. So I can at least say brought that stuff up. He had no comment, except that he agreed with me about the state department (and NIH) budgets.
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:30 PM on September 20, 2017 [95 favorites]

OnceUponATime, you are a hero and a rockstar. Thank you so much for all of that.
posted by Superplin at 7:36 PM on September 20, 2017 [22 favorites]

Update on my meeting with my congressman...

Flagged as fantastic, OnceUponATime.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:37 PM on September 20, 2017 [15 favorites]

I stopped by the local legislative affairs office to register my opinion with our two senators, Murkowski and Sullivan (in my small town they share an office and a single staffer, which is somewhat convenient.) The office was closed this week; based on a sign on the door the staffer is gone for training. While I was in the hallway reading the sign another constituent showed up to also have a talk with the senators' staff about the same issue.

Since I couldn't pass along my message in person as I usually do, I returned home to do it electronically. Couldn't get through to a human at four of Senator Murkowski's offices (D.C, Anchorage, Fairbanks, and Juneau) and got sent in each case to a voice mail system that was full and had no more room for messages so people are definitely calling, that's not the usual experience.

I did reach a Sullivan staffer in Anchorage and registered my opinion. I have very little hope that his decision will be changed but I figure at the very least he won't be able to claim that he didn't know better (or at least you'd think -- I've received some just stupidly patronizing responses to constituent requests in the past; if they're typical then the Alaska dems should really be working hard to identify a challenger for his next election because he's not winning any friends with constituent relations like that..)

I resorted to e-mail to contact Murkowski, to at least be counted. Sent out a call to friends and neighbors to pile on as well but found that the ones who are receptive to those requests were already organized and acting. Our senators may not vote the way we want but it sure as hell won't be because their constituents weren't making their wishes known.
posted by Nerd of the North at 7:41 PM on September 20, 2017 [21 favorites]

"asked why people should be forced to pay for others' healthcare."

JesusfuckingChrist, because that's literally the definition of insurance.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:43 PM on September 20, 2017 [61 favorites]

I mean, duh. We should pay for other people's healthcare because no one chooses to need health care, everyone needs healthcare, (and if you think you don't, wait until you age!) and every single one of us is other people.

Also, when we don't pay for other people's healthcare, they go to the emergency room where we pay for their healthcare. It's not even, "should we pay", but "should we pay a little for good outcomes" (i.e., preventative care) or "pay a lot for bad outcomes"? (i.e., emergencies and epidemics)

So the argument is obviously not based in any sort of logic or analysis of the policy outcomes. What else could possibly be going on here, I wonder sarcastically?
posted by mrgoat at 7:48 PM on September 20, 2017 [23 favorites]

Why should I pay for the fire department to extinguish other people's houses BECAUSE THAT'S CIVILIZATION YOU GODDAMN DINOSAUR.
posted by Behemoth at 7:51 PM on September 20, 2017 [51 favorites]

Exclusive: Russians Appear to Use Facebook to Push Trump Rallies in 17 U.S. Cities. ‘Being Patriotic,’ a Facebook group uncovered by The Daily Beast, is the first evidence of suspected Russian provocateurs explicitly mobilizing Trump supporters in real life.
posted by homunculus at 7:55 PM on September 20, 2017 [39 favorites]

It's pure lunacy. People who are either legitimately or willfully ignorant of the basic concept of how insurance works are actively trying to pass legislation that controls the insurance industry. How is it possible grown adults exist like this? Just about every aspect of the medical industry is opposed to these repeal bills they keep throwing at the wall. Why are they doing this? Is it purely to cut spending and pass the savings off on tax cuts for the rich? Why isn't the insurance industry fighting harder against this? Wouldn't they rather have stricter requirements to drive healthy profitable people into their insurance pools?
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 7:57 PM on September 20, 2017 [6 favorites]

I mean, I can understand their loathing of preexisting condition protections, but this bill does a lot more than just that.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 7:58 PM on September 20, 2017

Wouldn't they rather have stricter requirements to drive healthy profitable people into their insurance pools?

No. If the bill passes they can buy the state legislatures cheaper instead of having to pay for full MoCs. In red states it's going to be a god damned bonanza and the ACA was pretty punishing on how badly you could screw someone so they're pretty much guaranteed to be no worse off.
posted by Talez at 8:01 PM on September 20, 2017 [2 favorites]

Can't we just respond to "why should people be forced to pay for others' healthcare?" with, "because it is the Christian and charitable thing to do, and it is part of our spirit of American generosity to help our neighbors?" I mean, just rhetorically claim the "not being an asshole" moral high ground right away (even if you're not feeling super optimistic about America right now) and then let them try and frame their arguments in opposition to that.
posted by creampuff at 8:06 PM on September 20, 2017 [18 favorites]

Virginia Republican’s ad ties opponent to MS-13. Democrats compare it to ‘Willie Horton’

Gillespie was supposed to be a Republican from the sane wing of the party. Except there's no such thing.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:09 PM on September 20, 2017 [6 favorites]

Can't we just respond to "why should people be forced to pay for others' healthcare?" with, "because it is the Christian and charitable thing to do, and it is part of our spirit of American generosity to help our neighbors?"

I'm pretty sure that they would say that they're all for charity, but it has to be voluntary. Which is some serious bullshit, but these people are all about the serious bullshit.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 8:10 PM on September 20, 2017 [13 favorites]

Black employees of BLT Prime, in Trump International Hotel, allege racial discrimination (Jonathan O'Connell, WaPo)

But last summer both of them walked away from their jobs for a chance at something better: the opportunity to work at BLT Prime, the steakhouse in the luxury Trump International Hotel, Washington D.C.

The couple said they soon discovered their hopes were misplaced. In a civil complaint filed Wednesday morning in D.C. Superior Court, Hill, a former BLT employee, and Smith, a current one, allege that the Trump Organization and hotel managing director Mickael Damelincourt saw to it that the restaurant routinely steered black employees to less lucrative shifts and subjected them to discriminatory behavior by other staff and by guests. The two men are joined in the case by another former BLT employee, JaNette Sturdivant.

posted by Room 641-A at 8:15 PM on September 20, 2017 [9 favorites]

Which is some serious bullshit, but these people are all about the serious bullshit.

From centrism.biz

What’s good for business is good for everyone, so we must not bite the invisible hand that feeds us. Even when the food it's holding is also invisible.

That freedom goes both ways. If workers don’t like a job that pays minimum wage, they should be free to choose another job, like Homelessist, Hunger Technician, or Bindle Assembler.

[fake, but based on a true story]
posted by Buntix at 8:21 PM on September 20, 2017 [13 favorites]

Can't we just respond to "why should people be forced to pay for others' healthcare?" with, "because it is the Christian and charitable thing to do, and it is part of our spirit of American generosity to help our neighbors?"
—
I'm pretty sure that they would say that they're all for charity, but it has to be voluntary. Which is some serious bullshit, but these people are all about the serious bullshit.

Then how about we respond with ‘insurance and risk pooling going back to Lloyds of London in the 17th century is a founding and necessary pillar of modern capitalism.’
posted by chris24 at 8:38 PM on September 20, 2017 [37 favorites]

Jimmy Kimmel is savaging Cassidy and Fox and Friends, and it is great.
posted by TwoStride at 8:40 PM on September 20, 2017 [11 favorites]

Christian charity has to be voluntary, and separation of church and state are vital to our democracy.
Christmas, however, is mandatory. Get that "happy holidays" stuff out of your filthy pagan mouth, heathen.

I cannot tell you the amount of fights I have gotten into with fellow Christians who are all "religious freedom for all, except for Muslims" and other bullshit. No, you asshats, the religious freedom for you to practice your religion includes the freedom for anyone else to practice any sincere* religion, or to sincerely choose not to practice a religion at all. None of us are free unless we are all free. If they come for one, they can come for all.

*(I am wibbly on the Pastafarian/Jedi/GunChurch types)
posted by corb at 8:49 PM on September 20, 2017 [14 favorites]

*(I am wibbly on the Pastafarian/Jedi/GunChurch types)

Think of them as variant athiesm, if it helps. Religious freedom doesn't have anything to do with whether the religion in question is silly or not.
posted by rifflesby at 8:54 PM on September 20, 2017 [35 favorites]

^ this, rifflesby beat me to it. I would avoid any kind of wibbly qualification here. I say this not because I think the examples you give are sincere or funny or important or whatever, but only because you're going to get that qualification thrown right back in your face. You're wibbly on Pastafarians, they're wibbly on Muslims, it's a fair equivalence to them and a losing argument for you.
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 8:59 PM on September 20, 2017 [15 favorites]

Meanwhile, in other news, Melania's back to working on battling bullying again. Yeah, you get on that, girl.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:07 PM on September 20, 2017 [5 favorites]

The FauxNews liar claimed that the ratings for the Emmys were a "record low", when actually, they were slightly up from the TRUE record low of the previous year (that was when Kimmel was the host, sorry, Jimmy). I wonder if somebody could research the minute-by-minute tune-in and tune-out, just to see if it was doing even better until Spicer made his entrance...
posted by oneswellfoop at 9:18 PM on September 20, 2017

Can't we just respond to 'why should people be forced to pay for others' healthcare?' with, 'because it is the Christian and charitable thing to do, and it is part of our spirit of American generosity to help our neighbors?'

Maybe not if they're not Christian.
posted by kirkaracha at 9:22 PM on September 20, 2017 [2 favorites]

it's honestly like you're daring me to make a comment about that dress, but I won't!

Imagine the Peggy noonan anesthesia nightmares that dress would prompt though
posted by dis_integration at 9:38 PM on September 20, 2017 [2 favorites]

I have no clue how to decode that "meanwhile" link into any kind of meaningful narrative.
posted by Mei's lost sandal at 9:41 PM on September 20, 2017 [3 favorites]

Leopards, faces...

That's what I took from it. Also, grifters.
posted by Windopaene at 9:46 PM on September 20, 2017 [2 favorites]

it's honestly like you're daring me to make a comment about that dress, but I won't!

I can't help but feel that my successful (so far) effort to stifle such remarks should earn me some type of Feminism Above and Beyond the Call of Duty medal, though.
posted by FelliniBlank at 10:00 PM on September 20, 2017 [10 favorites]

Re: sassygayrepublican -- I think schadenfreude is a really toxic emotion. But, man, sometimes it is the only response.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:04 PM on September 20, 2017 [11 favorites]

Mueller needs to move quickly to get Manafort in custody, I'm expecting him to wake up with a bad case of polonium poisoning any day now.

I'm more concerned about him popping up in a country with no extradition treaty.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 10:05 PM on September 20, 2017 [1 favorite]

Oh riiiight, the sassygayrepublican thing makes WAY more sense if you actually click on the last link. *smacks head*
posted by elsietheeel at 10:24 PM on September 20, 2017 [2 favorites]

Annie Karni: So glad to be back in NYC, specifically for the famous Trump Tower pizza.

(Yes, this photo is apparently legit.)
posted by Atom Eyes at 10:57 PM on September 20, 2017 [1 favorite]

That is disgusting
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 11:03 PM on September 20, 2017

it's honestly like you're daring me to make a comment about that dress, but I won't!

I can't help but feel that my successful (so far) effort to stifle such remarks should earn me some type of Feminism Above and Beyond the Call of Duty medal, though.

Yeah, I had to summon Mr. Palmcorder into my office to watch that video with me, because I could not carry the weight of what I saw in it alone.
posted by palmcorder_yajna at 11:04 PM on September 20, 2017 [2 favorites]

Basically Twitter user @sassygayrepublican spent a non-trivial amount of time asking why he should pay for others' insurance when he is young and in perfect health, and then a week ago supposedly got into a serious car accident and is now begging for money for his hospital bills.

I haven't found confirmation but a few people on the GoFundMe page are pretty sure his traffic accident is fake and he's using an old accident photo. I can't find any confirmation that the accident happened on 9/13. Also he had another GoFundMe campaign for his health as recently as July.

I'm sure this story will develop into something even more horrible.
posted by mmoncur at 11:19 PM on September 20, 2017 [34 favorites]

I haven't found confirmation but a few people on the GoFundMe page are pretty sure his traffic accident is fake and he's using an old accident photo.

That seems to be based on a google search result [pic of results] that shows a date of June 2015.

If you look at the google cache* of the actual page that date seems to be when the twitter account posting the pic was created. The tweet with the pic in is a retweet of @sassygayrepub from 8 days ago.

* The direct link doesn't work as the account is now protected.
posted by Buntix at 11:55 PM on September 20, 2017 [2 favorites]

I dunno, all. Do we need a fucking fuck 4.0? Because between the 4 hurricanes, 2 earthquakes, the fires, Nazis, deportations, the war on trans people, North Korea, Iran, health care, our Equifax data being stolen, general Trump insanity, and the 43 (not kidding) tabs I have open on my phone to try to handle all this stuff...I think I'm losing the plot. I'm spiraling into despair. If I were so inclined, I would absolutely be out a corner with a "the end is nigh" sign. Except that sounds like effort I can't spare. I don't mean to be depressing but. This is a lot to try to help with/fix/fight/solve, right?

It's OK to take a time out now and then. Delete all the tabs, read a book or watch a few movies. Go for a hike in the weekend. Everything will still be here when you are back, but you will be a bit stronger again. It's like what they say on the plane: put on your own oxygen mask before you help your child.
I just did it, and it really helped.
posted by mumimor at 12:36 AM on September 21, 2017 [29 favorites]

I'm sure this story will develop into something even more horrible.

Well that didn't take long. Guys, he's literally quoting a Pearl Jam song #sassygayrepublican
posted by scalefree at 12:40 AM on September 21, 2017 [5 favorites]

Bit of context. He's allegedly describing this memory burned into his mind as he tries to justify his need for our aid & what comes out is Pearl Jam. It's all just an elaborate troll.
posted by scalefree at 12:45 AM on September 21, 2017 [2 favorites]

Probably something along the lines of trying to prove that private charity is enough. SEE? I DIDNT NEED THE GUBMIT, PEOPLE GAVE ME THE MONEY I NEED?!? Or some bullshit.
posted by Justinian at 1:41 AM on September 21, 2017

it's honestly like you're daring me to make a comment about that dress, but I won't!

This is a chroma-key matt tragedy just waiting to happen, but I have successfully resisted the urge.
posted by mikelieman at 1:47 AM on September 21, 2017 [4 favorites]

A bullshit "Metafilter Had a Nasty Sassy Car Wreck Help Us Pay Our Medical, Automotive, and Legal Bills" GoFundMe campaign might be the best thing we can take from this ruptured diverticulitic sac of a presidency.

Besides the whole not letting Republicans technicality/rules-lawyer their sclerotic death-cult plantation minority of santorum sippers into power thing ever again I mean.
posted by riverlife at 3:53 AM on September 21, 2017 [3 favorites]

is a founding and necessary pillar of modern capitalism.

And thus ended capitalism (relevant Dilbert cartoon)
posted by Melismata at 4:20 AM on September 21, 2017 [3 favorites]

Yeah, given that @sassygayrepublican is still posting polls like, "Are liberals a hate mob Y/N?" and referring to liberals as "low lifes" and "insane"... I'm going with "he's an awful person who's learned nothing and is just trolling."
posted by TwoStride at 4:26 AM on September 21, 2017 [9 favorites]

scalefree: "I'm sure this story will develop into something even more horrible.

Well that didn't take long. Guys, he's literally quoting a Pearl Jam song #sassygayrepublican"

Pfft, it's not a Pearl Jam song, it's a Wayne Cochran song. Pearl Jam just covered it.
posted by Chrysostom at 4:42 AM on September 21, 2017 [16 favorites]

Guys, he's literally quoting a Pearl Jam song #sassygayrepublican

The melodrama would be more convincing if it weren't that it seems likely he took the pic of the car (not entirely sure as it seems twitter noms the exif metadata, it does have the same dimensions & resolution of a later one he took of his hand in the hospital). Also the car isn't really that damaged, the crumple zones crumpled, the rigid bits didn't, and the airbag went off (visible in another pic). Which makes his tweet: "People aren't supposed to survive accidents like this which proves to me more that God is real & He doesn't want me out yet. I'm so blessed." irritating.

Gods had nothing to do with him surviving, intelligent designers did. [having spent a fair few hours at auto-breakers where you had to go out into the wreck-stacks to harvest your own parts in the 80s/90s, well, anyhoo hurrah for Volvo and what they started].

I reckon the accident probably happened; but he's a wee bit of an entitled conscienceless attention seeker who's realised he can monetise the cult of amatuer celebrity via hyperbole.

The bit where some of his right wing buddies unfollowed him for asking for help with his medical costs was my favourite schaudensnippet.
posted by Buntix at 4:45 AM on September 21, 2017 [5 favorites]

Probably something along the lines of trying to prove that private charity is enough

I read this as "pirate charity is not enough," so hooray for drunken baking, I suppose
posted by salix at 4:52 AM on September 21, 2017 [5 favorites]

Pirates had better social safety nets than these guys wish to provide.
posted by thebrokedown at 4:57 AM on September 21, 2017 [14 favorites]

Gods had nothing to do with him surviving, intelligent designers did. [having spent a fair few hours at auto-breakers where you had to go out into the wreck-stacks to harvest your own parts in the 80s/90s, well, anyhoo hurrah for Volvo and what they started].

Well more importantly government regulators and courts who have forced automakers to make safer cars over the manufacturers' strenuous objections. The car companies fought airbags for a generation.
posted by octothorpe at 4:59 AM on September 21, 2017 [30 favorites]

Oh, let's not have the God / intelligent design / government regulation / evolution argument again.
posted by kyrademon at 5:12 AM on September 21, 2017 [9 favorites]

I'm sure everyone anticipates the House passing whatever dogshit bill the Senate is able to pass, but here's a look at how it might go down.

@MEPFuller (Matt Fuller, HuffPo Hill reporter)
Let's take a close look at what a House vote for Graham-Cassidy might look like.
- AHCA passed 217-213, with one GOP absence (Newhouse) and the House was short four members. Three of those four seats are now Republicans.
- So, if you voted on AHCA today, the vote would likely be 221-214. (We'd have seen some other Republicans vote no if they had the cushion.)
- That means there are only 3 votes Republicans can lose in the House and still pass a health care reform.
- Looking at who voted no, I could *maybe* find you a few Republicans who would flip to yes on Graham-Cassidy.
- Dave Reichert would be my first suspect. He's retiring, and I'm pretty sure he would have voted yes if they needed him.
- Then you have leadership friendlies like Will Hurd (Texas) and Barbara Comstock (Virginia). Texas makes out huge in G-C, Virginia a bit.
- Mark Meadows might be able to convince Freedom Caucus member Andy Biggs, who voted no last time because of conservative objections.
- So say you flipped those four members. You now have seven new votes you can lose.
- That means they could lose about 3 more NY members and 4 more CA members. Say, Tenney, Faso, Stefanik, Walters, Valadao, Denham, and Issa.
- Push comes to shove, I'm not sure any of those 7 members vote no if it means the bill fails. Maybe Faso, just because he's been negative.
- On the other side of this, I could see Justin Amash voting no this time around.
- The point is, there is definitely a pathway for House Republicans, even if you lose a few more NY and CA Republicans.
- There definitely are a few key votes to watch. I don't think there's any bigger one than Appropriations Chairman Rodney Frelinghuysen (NJ).
- Anyway, obviously a tough vote. But not even remotely an impossible one. They're already working with a little cushion. [The End]
posted by chris24 at 5:13 AM on September 21, 2017 [3 favorites]

I am never, ever, ever going to understand this (why should I have to pay for other people's healthcare) point of view.

I sometimes frame the United States as a simple horizontal slider bar, like you would find on a radio or other audio equipment. Instead of bass and treble, its settings are labeled WE on the left and ME on the right.

Everyone wants good things for themselves and their loved ones. That's a given. But how do you want government and society and law to deliver that?

Do you want your own beliefs and cultural and ethnic and class to be prioritized, to have preferential status, to benefit without a thought for the rights and prosperity of other groups? Slide that bar right. You're all about ME and don't care about anything else.

Do you want the playing field flattened, law to not play favorites, religions to be neither sanctioned nor condemned, the economic floor to be raised, as many people as possible to have a fair chance to succeed (including yourself, without being ashamed of that?). Slide the bar left. You recognize that WE are all in this together and that the common good helps society more than maximizing individual achievement.

Me? Gimme that bass. America needs more funk and less shrill yowling.
posted by delfin at 5:18 AM on September 21, 2017 [19 favorites]

Oh, let's not have the God / intelligent design / government regulation / evolution argument again.

Remember when re-litigating Ralph "Unsafe at Any Speed" Nader's effect on the 2000 U.S. election was a thing?

Criminy Jicket, but those were simpler times.
posted by Buntix at 5:21 AM on September 21, 2017 [4 favorites]

Slide the bar left. You recognize that WE are all in this together and that the common good helps society more than maximizing individual achievement.

The thing is, it's possible to recognize that the common good helps society and also not to want your family to starve or be evicted. A lot of people are really, really close to the line of instability right now. Even ones with "good" "middle-class" salaries. And I wish that people would understand that a lot of people who don't want their taxes raised aren't Richie McRich trying to figure out if they need two butlers or one, but rather everyday folks trying to figure out how they can make the grocery bill stretch and searching in their couch cushions for gas money to get to work.
posted by corb at 5:33 AM on September 21, 2017 [4 favorites]

That's literally why there are tax brackets.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:38 AM on September 21, 2017 [66 favorites]

You know, I was a precocious child in some ways, in terms of what I read, which explains why at age four or five I learned about lemmings and their going off of cliffs and such. To a young one, such a thing is pretty horrible, maybe because you tend to anthropomorphize everything.

Seeing these repeated efforts to thwart the will of the people by the GOP in such a way as G-C, it brings that same bad gut feeling as when I learned about lemmings. It's sort of a toddler's gasp of bewilderment and despair. Like, No! Why those things do that bad thing!
posted by angrycat at 5:57 AM on September 21, 2017 [2 favorites]

A smooth, exponential curve would still be both simpler and better than brackets.
posted by perspicio at 5:57 AM on September 21, 2017 [2 favorites]

> And I wish that people would understand that a lot of people who don't want their taxes raised aren't Richie McRich trying to figure out if they need two butlers or one, but rather everyday folks trying to figure out how they can make the grocery bill stretch and searching in their couch cushions for gas money to get to work.

1) literally tax brackets
2) it's the top rate we need to raise. A lot. Everyday folks don't pay the top rate.
3) Also capital gains taxes, which everyday folks don't pay a lot of.
4) Also inheritance taxes, which everyday folks don't pay at all.
5) The closer the Democratic Party gets to being able to make "eat the rich" part of their messaging, the better they'll be at winning everyday folks.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 5:58 AM on September 21, 2017 [85 favorites]

You can relax, the lemmings thing is a myth.
posted by Chrysostom at 5:58 AM on September 21, 2017 [4 favorites]

like, "here's the tax your boss's boss's boss's dimwit son pays. that tax is the tax we're raising. Here, have some of his money."
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 5:59 AM on September 21, 2017 [17 favorites]

> None of us are free unless we are all free. If they come for one, they can come for all.

This is also the single defining difference between a right and privilege. A right is that thing you hold true for all: irregardless. Privileges is how you get ~~ants~~ aristocracy.
posted by Buntix at 6:03 AM on September 21, 2017 [4 favorites]

literally tax brackets

Tax brackets in no way account effectively for the increased costs of everyday living, especially in or near cities. The tax bracket is just "how much money do you make/how many children do you have"? Not things like "what are your transportation-to-work bills." In fact, like fuckers, they specifically don't exempt transportation to work, even though it is necessary, only transportation once you actually arrive on the job. If you're lucky enough to have a fancy company that will pay for your transportation out of pre-tax, you're fine, but if you have a job less fancy, you're screwed.

A better, and fairer, system, would be to tax disposable income, and exempt rent, transportation, grocery, and utility bills.
posted by corb at 6:04 AM on September 21, 2017 [8 favorites]

A smooth, exponential curve would still be both simpler and better than brackets.

For 99-plus percent of people, it would be functionally the same, because they use the printed charts or the calculation that TurboTax makes for them. Only economists with nothing better to do on a Saturday morning will bother doing anything with the actual brackets.

"I want to simplify the tax code" is always a lie. "I want to simplify the tax code because we have too many brackets" is that lie with a misdirection.
posted by Etrigan at 6:04 AM on September 21, 2017 [19 favorites]

> A smooth, exponential curve would still be both simpler and better than brackets.

let's vote on what function best defines tax rates

everyone list your top four preferred functions in numbered order, then we'll do a series of pairwise comparisons, wherein we pretend that each function is in a two-function race with each other function in the election. This will generally yield a clear Condorcet winner; sometimes there are cycles, though, and if one of those occurs we'll have another nested election ("Sheherazade election") on how to determine the preferred method of determining the winner in a case where there exists a cycle.

yay we just solved for political economy
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 6:05 AM on September 21, 2017 [15 favorites]

Can't we just respond to "why should people be forced to pay for others' healthcare?" with, "because it is the Christian and charitable thing to do, and it is part of our spirit of American generosity to help our neighbors?"

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

Providing healthcare, at the very least, promotes the general welfare. It makes for healthier citizens who will be more productive and pay more in taxes without raising rates while being almost universally good for the economy. Our founding document, right at the very beginning, tells us why some might be forced to pay for stuff that doesn't directly benefit them. I don't see how a person can disagree with that and still call themselves an American.
posted by VTX at 6:07 AM on September 21, 2017 [19 favorites]

> Richie McRich trying to figure out if they need two butlers or one

what kind of prole only has two butlers
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 6:09 AM on September 21, 2017 [8 favorites]

A better, and fairer, system, would be to tax disposable income, and exempt rent, transportation, grocery, and utility bills.

Very true. It's really great to see this kind of support for nationalisation of various sectors of the industry and government subsidization of much of the rest, especially since most available evidence points to them as the kind things that are far better and improving and maintain the welfare of citizens than the free market.
posted by zombieflanders at 6:12 AM on September 21, 2017 [7 favorites]

Also, in more 'fuck ICE and the horse's ass they rode in on': Border Patrol Arrests Parents While Infant Awaits Serious Operation [NPR]

The Border Patrol followed the ambulance, the night of May 24, as it raced to Corpus through desolate ranchland, carrying Oscar, Irma and tiny Isaac — with an IV in his arm and a tube in his stomach. Once they arrived at Driscoll Children's Hospital, the green-uniformed agents never left the undocumented couple's side. Officers followed the father to the bathroom and the cafeteria and asked the mother to leave the door open when she breast-fed Isaac.

posted by corb at 6:13 AM on September 21, 2017 [39 favorites]

A better, and fairer, system, would be to tax disposable income, and exempt rent, transportation, grocery, and utility bills.

You're going to end up with a more complicated tax system with a million exceptions and limits. Do you get to write off the rent for your Manhattan penthouse? Commutes by helicopters? Either you put limits on these deductions or you end up with an incredible inequitable tax system.

How noble the law, in its majestic equality, that both the rich and poor are equally able to deduct their rents, commutes and bread!

A progressive consumption tax would be more equitable, but I don't see that as politically feasible, unfortunately.
posted by papercrane at 6:17 AM on September 21, 2017 [6 favorites]

A progressive consumption tax

How would you make that fair? A distinguishing feature of the finances of the rich is that the proportion of assets they must devote to consumption is dramatically lower than for the non-rich. Taxing on consumption means that nearly or completely 100% of the income of a lower-income person is taxed, while for many rich, the taxable percentage of assets/income would be tiny.
posted by Miko at 6:23 AM on September 21, 2017 [21 favorites]

Highly progressive income tax + UBI.
posted by Chrysostom at 6:24 AM on September 21, 2017 [4 favorites]

And I wish that people would understand that a lot of people who don't want their taxes raised aren't Richie McRich trying to figure out if they need two butlers or one,

And I wish that conservatives would understand that no one wants that, no one is calling for that, and no one is pushing for that so they should stop talking like anyone is. No one wants to raise middle class tax rates so stop defending that position like anyone is attacking it, it just implies conflict where there is none. Any tax rates we're talking about raising are going to be raised specifically for Richie McRich. We're talking about people who, because of increased tax rates, might consider a car from a mainstream brand like Chevy or Ford instead of a luxury brand like BMW or Mercedes for the car they buy for their kid's 16th birthday.
posted by VTX at 6:25 AM on September 21, 2017 [25 favorites]

A better, and fairer, system, would be to tax disposable income, and exempt rent, transportation, grocery, and utility bills.

So, you'd be ok with having to give the government every single detail of your financial life in order to prove exactly how much of your money is "disposable"?

I mean, taxing your "disposable" income is pretty much what tax brackets do, without having to have an enormous army of IRS agents poking through every detail of every taxpayer's life - if you make $20k a year money is going to be tight almost no matter where you live, so you pay less, if you make 100k that should be enough to keep a roof over your head, so you are likely to have more "disposable" income, so you pay higher taxes.

A lot of people are really, really close to the line of instability right now.

This is not caused by taxes.
posted by soundguy99 at 6:26 AM on September 21, 2017 [45 favorites]

The thing is, it's possible to recognize that the common good helps society and also not to want your family to starve or be evicted. A lot of people are really, really close to the line of instability right now.

Absolutely. I do not want to portray WE as some kind of mega-altruistic give-away-your-last-dime Pollyanna state of blissful sacrifice. Everyone has self-interest and should have self-interest.

Now, the question is, to improve the lives of Joe Middle Class and family, should he align himself with people and policies who want to work from the bottom up, improving as many lives as possible, or from the top down, trusting that the wealthy will let that prosperity flow downwards?

The GOP has spent decades promoting the message that trickle-down and supply-side and Reagan/Laffer voodoo work, that Joe is a temporarily embarrassed millionaire because of government theft rather than a Prole First Class, that deregulation and unfettered capitalism benefit the middle more than oversight. It has screamed this from all rafters incessantly. It has succeeded in most of its desires. And this is where we are, and where Joe is.

The key is for Joe to recognize that ME policy doesn't benefit Joe. It benefits the people who have the power and money to bend legislation and policy in their direction. To realize that ME is part of the set of WE, that the rising tide only lifts all boats if it starts with the boats at the bottom, that is the key to evolving one's political views.

Or one could post Facebook screeds about welfare queens and Communism. Also an option.
posted by delfin at 6:26 AM on September 21, 2017 [3 favorites]

Highly progressive income tax + UBI

Don't forget capital gains - that needs to come up especially at the higher levels.
posted by Miko at 6:27 AM on September 21, 2017 [5 favorites]

Taxing on consumption means that nearly or completely 100% of the income of a lower-income person is taxed, while for many rich, the taxable percentage of assets/income would be tiny.

The key is that it would be a progressive tax. The poor wouldn't be taxed at all, while the very rich who may spend a lot (including computed rent on things like yachts, multiple homes & mansions) would be taxed heavily. The wealthy also wouldn't be able to play games with their money like taking large loans against assets and spending that money and paying no income tax.

It wouldn't be really feasible though as it requires so much financial information that I don't see it every being implemented.
posted by papercrane at 6:29 AM on September 21, 2017

Why should people pay for the health and well being of other people? Ugh. If you're a despicable human turd who can't feel empathy, then fine, I'll give you a rational economic reason.

Today more than ever, prosperity is tied to human capital: the ability of a population to think, produce, create, collaborate, and achieve. This is why tiny resource poor nations like Singapore, Taiwan, or The Netherlands are able to have such high GDP. Their people are highly educated, they feel secure, and their health is taken care of. Think of it like you are developing any other asset or investment. Like a coal mine or an interstate highway system. In order for it to be productive and profitable you have to take care of it, repair broken pieces, invest in new technologies, and protect it from damage.

Now you might suggest that we should just look out for our own human capital, and the others can fail or succeed. But that would be a bad investment. Humans are slightly different than a coal mine or road system in that we are social resources. Our value increases if you put us together. If you put two high functioning humans together, their production will exceed whatever they could have produced individually. Or four, or 8, or a million. It's amazing! However, just a few poorly functioning sick or ignorant humans in the mix can ruin everything. They slow down production and totally ruin whatever economic value the entire group had.

If you, my ignorant Republican friend, had ever in your life dealt with a serious illness you would know how it can sap the life and energy out of everyone close to you. Humans are social beings. We need each other and are connected to each other for everything. And when one of us is sick, it drags the rest of us down.

Take me for example. Before Obamacare, I had a preexisting condition. I couldn't get health insurance. But I couldn't afford insurance either. So I was sick a lot and couldn't contribute to the economy and pay back my massive student loans. I also racked up tens of thousands of dollars in ambulance rides and ER visits. Eventually I was stuck in debt purgatory. I knew I would never be able to pay off my bills, credit agencies wouldn't touch me with a 10ft pole, and even getting a job was difficult as I had financial and medical baggage. I could get shitty jobs but starting a real career was impossible. I also was an economic and emotional burden on almost everyone else around me. Family and friends were always worried about me and having to come rescue me from the hospital. It was seriously impacting their lives. So? After a couple years of unemployment and living off the government, I moved to a country with single payer health care. Magically when I got some treatment and medication, the things I couldn't afford before, I got better. Today I'm a financial exile. I don't pay any of those medical bills or my student loans and I'm using the education that America paid for in some other country. I want to move back and contribute in my home but I can't. It's not even about the money. I would negotiate my debt but there's too much instability in the healthcare system and I have no idea what will happen.

So look. If you really want to grow the economy, give people healthcare. People are America's greatest asset. Invest in them just like you would invest in anything else. The return on investment will be enormous.
posted by Glibpaxman at 6:29 AM on September 21, 2017 [127 favorites]

A smooth, exponential curve would still be both simpler and better than brackets.

For 99-plus percent of people, it would be functionally the same, because they use the printed charts or the calculation that TurboTax makes for them.

This will be my last comment on this subject. Probably already well picked over, but the response doesn't seem to acknowledge an important consideration.

Smooth curve vs stepwise brackets may be functionally the same from the standpoint of completing the forms, but meaningfully different from the standpoint of tax owed. Most notably, transitioning from one stepwise bracket to the next results in a steep penalty when moving up the income scale (or a disproportionate benefit when transitioning down) and thus dampens upward social mobility. I am unaware of any credible societal benefit, purported or actual, conferred by the bracket system.
posted by perspicio at 6:29 AM on September 21, 2017

ArbitraryAndCapricious:

Can't we just respond to "why should people be forced to pay for others' healthcare?" with, "because it is the Christian and charitable thing to do, and it is part of our spirit of American generosity to help our neighbors?"

I'm pretty sure that they would say that they're all for charity, but it has to be voluntary.

OK, then, how about this: today's Gospel reading concludes,

[Jesus] said, '"Those who are well do not need a physician, but the sick do.
Go and learn the meaning of the words,
I desire mercy, not sacrifice.

posted by wenestvedt at 6:32 AM on September 21, 2017 [4 favorites]

The best answer is probably one that goes in the direction of complicating, not simplifying: have tax brackets adjusted for prevailing costs of living in different regions. But if you want a tax system that allows taxing the uber wealthy at a different rate than the hypothetical struggling middle class/working parent like me or you, that's progressive taxation and it's only apeals to simplicity that make that seem unpalatable. So double the size of the IRS and make them file for us so it is simple for us, like in Germany and most other civilized countries.
posted by saulgoodman at 6:35 AM on September 21, 2017 [4 favorites]

but however the question of brackets (sorta stepwise functions, right?) and smooth functions for determining tax rates feels like a deckchair-rearrangey bike-sheddy question to be considering at this moment when everything is kind of on fire literally or metaphorically.

Like if this is the hill you want to die on feel free to go to public meetings and demand continuous functions for determining tax rates and see how far you get.

Alternately hijack a major party and sneak through a plan to replace brackets with continuous functions, carefully arranged to approach 100% near the top, and sell it to the public. But lemme tell you you'll probably get farther if you organize around a specific end (i.e. socialism/prosperity for all/whatever) rather than a specific means to that end, unless there's a means that's already extremely popular.

if you can make continuous functions as popular as medicare, the approach you describe will have a chance. otherwise, it's kinda silly. and like I know from kinda silly, y'know?
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 6:37 AM on September 21, 2017 [6 favorites]

however the question of brackets (sorta stepwise functions, right?) and smooth functions for determining tax rates feels like a deckchair-rearrangey bike-sheddy question to be considering at this moment when everything is kind of on fire literally or metaphorically.

I mean, I don't think that anyone is proposing giving up the literal fight against fascism to spend their energy pushing to recalculate tax brackets (though I do kind of like the region-adjusted tax brackets though I'm sure there's something I'm not considering), it's more like we're talking in generalities about things that matter if we happen to survive. It's kind of nice, you know? Like it assumes that we will, which I'm not 100% sure of.
posted by corb at 6:40 AM on September 21, 2017 [5 favorites]

Most notably, transitioning from one stepwise bracket to the next results in a steep penalty when moving up the income scale

That's not how tax brackets work. The higher rate only applies to the marginal amount of income that is earned within the higher bracket. There is no penalty in moving up the income scale.
posted by parallellines at 6:40 AM on September 21, 2017 [100 favorites]

That's not how tax brackets work. The higher rate only applies to the marginal amount of income that is earned within the higher bracket. There is no penalty in moving up the income scale.

The number of people who don't understand this basic fact absolutely floors me.
posted by Nice Guy Mike at 6:43 AM on September 21, 2017 [100 favorites]

Pirates had better social safety nets than these guys wish to provide.

The GOP is more interested in their plank-to-nowhere technology.
posted by spitbull at 6:44 AM on September 21, 2017 [3 favorites]

perspicio --

The tax owed is not a stepwise function. It's continuous and you are at least implying that you fundamentally misunderstand marginal rates and brackets.

Going up a bracket doesn't mean you keep less money.
posted by jclarkin at 6:44 AM on September 21, 2017 [8 favorites]

The number of people who don't understand this basic fact absolutely floors me.

I had someone who worked in a Sales Audit department tell me "Yeah if you work x amount of overtime you go up a tax bracket and make less money at that tax rate"

Meaning she thought if she worked that overtime her paycheck would be less than it would have been if she was didn't work the overtime.

She worked in a dept that dealt specifically with TAXES.

I cannot even comprehend how people don't get how this works.
posted by Twain Device at 6:46 AM on September 21, 2017 [36 favorites]

soundguy99 So, you'd be ok with having to give the government every single detail of your financial life in order to prove exactly how much of your money is "disposable"?

Government hell, I'm ok with giving **EVERYONE** every single detail of my financial life. We Americans have this perverse belief that somehow secrecy in economic matters is a good thing. We'd be better off if we went the Swedish route and just made everyone's tax returns public knowledge.

The only people who benefit from financial secrecy are the bosses, who don't want you to know what your co-workers make so you can't negotiate a better salary.
posted by sotonohito at 6:48 AM on September 21, 2017 [30 favorites]

Dylan Scott, Vox: Republicans aren’t voting for Graham-Cassidy. They’re just voting for Obamacare repeal.

“Apparently no one cares what the bill actually does.”

It appears to be the closest they can get to having a pure referendum on Obama himself.
posted by ZeusHumms at 6:49 AM on September 21, 2017 [20 favorites]

TFW someone says "This is my last comment" and then makes an utterly incorrect statement that betrays their total lack of knowledge of not only the tax system, but also words and math.
posted by Etrigan at 6:49 AM on September 21, 2017 [21 favorites]

somebody should tell them how much it would piss off obama if they implemented single-payer
posted by entropicamericana at 6:53 AM on September 21, 2017 [19 favorites]

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

"promote the general Welfare". I've had people say to me that doesn't MEAN what I think it means. And then they emit a cloud of bogons and none get through my firewall, so I end up un-enlightened.

Can anyone explain the "general Welfare" doesn't mean taking care of people thing? Or is it just me expecting rationality from irrational folks?
posted by mikelieman at 6:53 AM on September 21, 2017 [4 favorites]

So, in a marginal tax rate system, a top tax of 75% isn't applied to all income, only to a percentage of that income?
posted by ZeusHumms at 6:54 AM on September 21, 2017 [4 favorites]

The number of people who don't understand this basic fact absolutely floors me.

I have known many highly educated people who don't understand the tax system at all.

The hell of it is that it can be easily demonstrated with a single graph: you always make more take-home pay as your income increases, it just increases more slowly as you make more and more money.

A Democratic government should run a high-profile, all-media ad campaign educating people about it. And then make it a required part of the educational curriculum, along with an understanding of just how rich the 0.1% are and how incredibly unlikely it is that anyone not born into that class will manage to get into it.
posted by jedicus at 6:55 AM on September 21, 2017 [40 favorites]

MetaFilter: I'm sure this story will develop into something even more horrible.
posted by kirkaracha at 6:57 AM on September 21, 2017 [25 favorites]

"promote the general Welfare".

They're just talking about adding an extra star to General Welfare's uniform.
posted by uncleozzy at 6:57 AM on September 21, 2017 [18 favorites]

So, in a marginal tax rate system, a top tax of 75% isn't applied to all income, only to a percentage of that income?

It only applies to the income above that level, like so:

Bracket 1: Tax Rate 1
Bracket 2: Tax Rate 1 for income up to Bracket 2, Tax Rate 2 for income in Bracket 2
Bracket 3: Tax Rate 1 for income up to Bracket 2, Tax Rate 2 for income between Bracket 2 and Bracket 3, Tax Rate 3 for income in Bracket 3

etc.
posted by zombieflanders at 6:58 AM on September 21, 2017 [16 favorites]

So, in a marginal tax rate system, a top tax of 75% isn't applied to all income, only to a percentage of that income?

not even that. you get taxed at 20% (or whatever) up to x thousand dollars for the bottom bracket. then if you make 10 more thousand dollars to put you in then next bracket, only that extra 10 thousand gets taxed for that bracket.
posted by ArgentCorvid at 7:01 AM on September 21, 2017 [2 favorites]

BTW, the conservative framing about raising tax rates that will hurt everyone is almost always a very disingenuous argument. "Raising taxes" usually means for raising marginal tax rates for higher brackets, not on all income. Sadly, a scary two-word phrase using a basic economic concept despite depending on a massive lie is pretty much guaranteed to work better than a wonky seven-word phrase for a slightly more complicated one that accurately conveys the concept. Whether you believe the incredibly dangerous representation of our tax system this way (and that "simplifying" it will make things easier) is done out of stupdity or malice is up to you.
posted by zombieflanders at 7:09 AM on September 21, 2017 [22 favorites]

The wiki for the general welfare clause does a pretty good job of explaining how it was neutered over the years, with very narrow takes on it revolving around taxation becoming the prevailing standard here.

If I'm reading this right ( and I doubt it ) we should be spending equal amounts on Defense and Healthcare?

And if the USSC treats taxation as a Plenary power of Congress, they can do anything they want, can't they?

Forget it. I suspect I'll never understand it. Which is probably the planned result.
posted by mikelieman at 7:13 AM on September 21, 2017

Fun tax bracket fact time - Taxman by the Beatles was written as a complaint against the top tax bracket of the time which was a hefty 95%, hence the line "There's one for you, nineteen for me" (the pre-decimal pound was made up of 20 shillings).
posted by jontyjago at 7:27 AM on September 21, 2017 [8 favorites]

I support a 95% top tax bracket, but I also love that song.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:33 AM on September 21, 2017 [26 favorites]

sotonohito Government hell, I'm ok with giving **EVERYONE** every single detail of my financial life. We Americans have this perverse belief that somehow secrecy in economic matters is a good thing. We'd be better off if we went the Swedish route and just made everyone's tax returns public knowledge.

Sure, fair point - my comment was more aimed at corb, who I believe still considers herself a "small government" conservative/libertarian, pointing out that her proposed tax solution would actually require more government more all up in everyone's bizness. Which is not exactly a "conservative" approach to taxation.
posted by soundguy99 at 7:33 AM on September 21, 2017 [5 favorites]

Whether you believe the incredibly dangerous representation of our tax system this way (and that "simplifying" it will make things easier) is done out of stupdity or malice is up to you.

From Republican politicians, conservative think tanks, Fox News, and talk radio, it's malice.

From random person repeating this on social media, it's stupidity.
posted by soundguy99 at 7:35 AM on September 21, 2017 [7 favorites]

Many people have the same misunderstanding about the estate tax. Currently there is an exemption of $11 million for a married couple. If you have $12 million, only $1 million, the amount greater than the exemption is taxed. The first $11 million is completely tax free.
posted by JackFlash at 7:38 AM on September 21, 2017 [48 favorites]

The Media Has A Probability Problem

538s final postmortem of 2016 just crushes the New York Times specifically, and journalist innumeracy broadly.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:47 AM on September 21, 2017 [28 favorites]

Many people have the same misunderstanding about the estate tax. Currently there is an exemption of $11 million for a married couple. If you have $12 million, only $1 million, the amount greater than the exemption is taxed. The first $11 million is completely tax free.

Jeezus. Thousands of people are paying lawyers to set up trusts, etc., to avoid this shit, and this is it?
posted by allthinky at 7:57 AM on September 21, 2017 [15 favorites]

Having fewer tax brackets broadens them and puts more people in the top bracket thus tending to create more people who have a reason to be grumpy about the top marginal tax rate. (At least I think this was a "cute" side effect of the Reagan era tax changes.)
posted by puddledork at 7:57 AM on September 21, 2017 [4 favorites]

conservative framing ~~about raising tax rates that will hurt everyone~~ is almost always a very disingenuous argument.

Fixed for accuracy.
posted by Gelatin at 8:00 AM on September 21, 2017 [5 favorites]

Can anyone explain the "general Welfare" doesn't mean taking care of people thing?

Practically speaking, it's merely a function of people not wanting "general welfare" to mean "taking care of people."

Slightly more refined is the argument by people like Allen West who claim that promoting the general welfare is not the same as providing for the general welfare—which might have some philosophical merit if the Constitution didn't spell that out too.
posted by Rykey at 8:06 AM on September 21, 2017 [3 favorites]

Phony Little Creep Brian Kilmeade of Fox News has a response to Jimmy Kimmel disemboweling him
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:08 AM on September 21, 2017

Smooth curve vs stepwise brackets may be functionally the same from the standpoint of completing the forms

This is basically because the tax brackets and the table that springs from them is basically already a continuous curve. They took a smooth curve and then rounded each value up or down to the nearest $5 (I think this is the increment the tables use) so instead of a smooth curve, it's a simplified estimation of that curve that's been reduced to $5 steps. That can also be thought of as reducing the resolution of our graph as each pixel now represents $5 instead of $0.01. Then, turn the curve into a series of straight lines. So now you have $5 steps following straight lines.

But if you hold both graphs up next to each other and squint, you can see that they're still basically the same graph.

It's not really that we're talking about the favoring a smooth line over brackets or a formula instead of a table but that they're already more-or-less the same thing.
posted by VTX at 8:08 AM on September 21, 2017 [4 favorites]

Has there been another time in US History when a bill so thoroughly detested by the public has been repeatedly up for a vote like this?
posted by frecklefaerie at 8:08 AM on September 21, 2017 [3 favorites]

Paul Waldman: Republicans' phony love affair with state government

This is a core part of contemporary Republican philosophy, that whenever possible we should devolve power away from out-of-touch bureaucrats in Washington and send it closer to the people, to those at the state and local level who understand their citizens and can craft the best solutions for them. You've probably heard this idea articulated so many times that you don't even question it. But there are two problems: There's no evidence it's true, and Republicans themselves don't even believe it.

If you listen closely, you'll notice that Republicans always express this belief that states work better than the federal government without getting specific. What you won't hear is anything resembling evidence that on the whole, states actually do things better. It isn't that you can't find innovative state programs or effective state administrators, because you can. But you can find those things on the federal level, too. And there is precisely zero reason to believe that as a group states are more efficient, spend money more wisely, design better programs, or serve citizens better than the federal government does. The next time somebody says that they do, ask them how they know. If they say "It just makes sense," that means they have no evidence.

posted by zombieflanders at 8:09 AM on September 21, 2017 [49 favorites]

538s final postmortem of 2016 just crushes the New York Times specifically, and journalist innumeracy broadly.

Has anyone from NYT commented on 538's criticisms? I haven't seen it. But I hope they notice those criticisms and take them to heart.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 8:10 AM on September 21, 2017 [3 favorites]

They won't. Judging from the Maggie Haberman semi-weekly combative defenses they're doubling down on "we did nothing wrong whatsoever", just like after they sold us into Iraq.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:13 AM on September 21, 2017 [15 favorites]

to the nearest $5 (I think this is the increment the tables use)

Minor point but it's increments of $50 for federal; at $5 the already-pages-long tables would be ten times as long.
posted by cortex at 8:16 AM on September 21, 2017 [4 favorites]

I am in the midst of a major mental health crisis, to go along with the debilitating physical pain I experience on the daily due to fibromyalgia, widespread arthritis, and chronic migraine. I shouldn't have to use my very few spoons to ResistBot Ron Johnson to say "please help me remain alive and employed by voting against any ACA repeal" but that's what I did this morning. I'll be entering a partial hospital program for my depression and anxiety soon, but how can I hope to get better when this is the world? I know that the fact that I've never felt this bad before is a direct effect of the GOP.
posted by altopower at 8:17 AM on September 21, 2017 [68 favorites]

dampens upward social mobility

Yeah. This must be why the rich are so poor and the poor are so rich, right?
posted by Sys Rq at 8:22 AM on September 21, 2017 [12 favorites]

Phony Little Creep Brian Kilmeade of Fox News has a response to Jimmy Kimmel disemboweling him

Wanted to hear it, but PrivacyBadger and Adblock+ and my PiHole conspired to make me wait until Kimmel's response to Kilmeade's response to Kimmel's response to Kilmeade.
posted by mikelieman at 8:22 AM on September 21, 2017 [1 favorite]

Minor point but it's increments of $50 for federal;

And the increment of tax paid is $12.50 for those with middle class incomes. Effectively, your tax due is rounded to the nearest 13 bucks.
posted by JackFlash at 8:23 AM on September 21, 2017 [1 favorite]

Jeezus. Thousands of people are paying lawyers to set up trusts, etc., to avoid this shit, and this is it?

To be fair, what a trust does is avoid probate, which can be both time-consuming and expensive. I'm very grateful my parents set up a trust for their estate (which was well below the cut-off amount), thus enabling me to manage everything on their behalf, and continue to do so smoothly after they passed.
posted by suelac at 8:40 AM on September 21, 2017 [14 favorites]

let's vote on what function best defines tax rates

As a fan of continuous taxation curves and Condorcet voting methods, this comment hits a little too close to home. Next you're going to be taking the piss out of the Dymaxion map and the tau manifesto or something...
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 9:03 AM on September 21, 2017 [5 favorites]

If you listen closely, you'll notice that Republicans always express this belief that states work better than the federal government without getting specific.

Oh, they'll get specific -- they'll use the Bureau of Motor Vehicles, which is a state office, as a prime example of "government waste and inefficiency" and "unresponsive bureaucracy."

And here in Indianapolis, renewing my driver's licence was easy-peasy, thank you very much, and I went into the office and didn't even do so online.

And yet this morning NPR took the "states rights" argument seriously when taking to Massachusetts' Republican governor.

Feh.
posted by Gelatin at 9:09 AM on September 21, 2017 [7 favorites]

(That is, the Massachusetts governor was opposing Obamacare repeal, and the NPR interviewer asked something to the effect of "but don't you think Republicans have a point about giving money and power back to the states?" Worse than he-said-she-said, the interviewer was uncritically repeating Republican talking points. But then again, NPR does that all the time.)
posted by Gelatin at 9:13 AM on September 21, 2017 [15 favorites]

I know that the fact that I've never felt this bad before is a direct effect of the GOP.

You're not alone, altopower.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:15 AM on September 21, 2017 [19 favorites]

scalefree: “Well that didn't take long. Guys, he's literally quoting a Pearl Jam song #sassygayrepublican”

J. Frank Wilson and the Cavaliers would like a word.
posted by ob1quixote at 9:20 AM on September 21, 2017 [2 favorites]

The NYT podcast The Daily usually has acceptable short analysis of difficult topics. But today's info on Graham-Cassidy was the absolute worst.

Host: So the Republican plan is basically federalism? Return power to the states to make decisions on healthcare, unlike the one size fits all policy of Obamacare
Guest: Yes, that's the idea.
Host: Interesting.
Clip of Sen. Graham: I don't think this bill is a partisan bill at all.

Me: Rips hair out.
posted by Glibpaxman at 9:26 AM on September 21, 2017 [6 favorites]

Anyway, Paul Ryan keeps claiming that having fewer brackets will simplify taxes which suggests to me that Paul Ryan has never actually prepared his own tax returns.

Or he could just be blatantly lying to the American people but certainly that can't be right.
posted by ckape at 9:36 AM on September 21, 2017 [11 favorites]

I still can't get past his Twitter video where he talked about how great it would be to have a tax return you could fill out on a postcard, and then showed a mockup of such a card....with the exact same number of blanks to fill in as a 1040-EZ, but printed smaller.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:39 AM on September 21, 2017 [28 favorites]

I still can't get past his Twitter video where he talked about how great it would be to have a tax return you could fill out on a postcard, and then showed a mockup of such a card....with the exact same number of blanks to fill in as a 1040-EZ, but printed smaller.

I'm pretty sure that in many developed countries, most people never fill out a tax return. Instead, their taxes are deducted automatically from their paychecks. The reason that most low and middle-income Americans file tax returns at all is that the tax preparation industry has a powerful lobby.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 9:42 AM on September 21, 2017 [39 favorites]

That's what I get for saying something would be my last comment on a subject.

That thing I said when I was talking about that thing I'm done talking about? I was wrong.
posted by perspicio at 9:43 AM on September 21, 2017 [13 favorites]

Anyway, Paul Ryan keeps claiming that having fewer brackets will simplify taxes which suggests to me that Paul Ryan has never actually prepared his own tax returns.

The problem with taxes not being simple is never the filing the forms part. It's always the 'figuring out how much they should be withholding in the first place' part. I feel like this is a place the IRS forms fall down, not necessarily the number of brackets.
posted by corb at 9:46 AM on September 21, 2017 [1 favorite]

Progressive taxes: I made a comment with a table and everything.

In conclusion: I still say fuck George Harrison, but fuck even more republicans who repeat ignorant talking points (which are, like every right-wing belief, far as I can tell, outright lies) because they are so tied to being "conservative" or "fiscally responsible" that they don't bother to even see if what they're saying has any basis in fact.
posted by maxwelton at 9:47 AM on September 21, 2017 [8 favorites]

That's what i was alluding to in my comment above about having the IRS file for us, like in the rest of the "civilized world." My family in Germany always gets hopelessly confused when I try to talk to them about tax returns and filings because there, like most of Europe, there is no filing process and you just get a receipt at the end of the year and it's on the tax department to make sure they get the right withholdings (unless you're somehow deliberately hiding income fraudulently to avoid them taking their cut). None of them have to do or worry about any bureacratic process at tax time.
posted by saulgoodman at 9:47 AM on September 21, 2017 [7 favorites]

If Hilary did the things that Trump did, she'd be impeached by now.
posted by storybored at 9:50 AM on September 21, 2017 [22 favorites]

But as ProPublica has detailed again and again, Intuit — the makers of TurboTax — and H&R Block have lobbied for years to derail any move toward such a system

There's also a good Planet Money episode about this as well. It's really scandalous how much of people's time and money is being wasted on something that could be fixed relatively simply.
posted by suelac at 9:51 AM on September 21, 2017 [5 favorites]

No, the reason most people file taxes is because most people set their withdrawal rate too high, and are owed money back when they file a return. As a rule, if you are not in the top 20% of income earners, you should be getting most of what you pay in, back.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 9:51 AM on September 21, 2017 [1 favorite]

ob1quixote: "J. Frank Wilson and the Cavaliers yt would like a word."

They didn't write it, either.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:53 AM on September 21, 2017 [2 favorites]

Not to abuse edit window, my comment was a response to Arbitrary, not the 6-8 comments about tax software, which is scandalous.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 9:54 AM on September 21, 2017

As a rule, if you are not in the top 20% of income earners, you should be getting most of what you pay in, back.

Unless you have a lot of really small jobs, where they assume you're in the tax bracket for the individual paycheck you are receiving, even without bringing the deductions into it, and at the end they say you owe them an enormous check you had no idea about. The tax system probably works really great for single income families, but not so great for families piecing together a whole paycheck out of a lot of smaller parts.
posted by corb at 9:55 AM on September 21, 2017 [6 favorites]

"Why should I have to pay for other people's healthcare?", an intellectual fellow traveller of the child's ever-persuasive "I DIDN'T ASK TO BE BORN!!!"

No I didn't take the healthcare from the healthcare jar!!
posted by riverlife at 9:56 AM on September 21, 2017 [5 favorites]

Incidentally, "Taxman" isn't the only Beatles song George Harrison would write about his personal financial difficulties. Via Wikipedia:

George Harrison said that the subject matter for "Only a Northern Song" related to both his city of birth, Liverpool, in Merseyside, and the fact that the copyright for the composition belonged to the Beatles' publishing company, Northern Songs. The company was floated on the London Stock Exchange in February 1965 as a means of saving John Lennon and Paul McCartney, the Beatles' principal songwriters, the tax liability generated through the international success of their catalogue. Harrison had formed his own publishing company, Harrisongs, in late 1964; despite the financial advantages offered by his 80 per cent stake in that company, he agreed to remain with Northern Songs, to aid the flotation scheme. Among the four Beatles, Lennon and McCartney were major shareholders in Northern Songs, each owning 15 per cent of the public company's shares, and the pair earned considerable wealth over the first year of the flotation. Harrison and Ringo Starr, as contracted songwriters, owned 0.8 per cent each. This arrangement ensured that, in addition to the company retaining the copyright of all its published songs, Lennon and McCartney profited more from Harrison's compositions than he did.

posted by Atom Eyes at 9:56 AM on September 21, 2017 [1 favorite]

Republican love of state government is because it sounds so loyal and true to states rights advocates; and it is easier to steal incrementally at the state level. They can reach into whatever honey pot/bucket exists at the state level, as those home boy business guys pay big for influence. With dark money like it is, wow the states can't keep up with it, especially when it comes from foreign corporations.
posted by Oyéah at 10:00 AM on September 21, 2017 [5 favorites]

The only charitable interpretation of "the more money I make, the less I take home" is for when tax deductions and other credits (child, etc) start to be reduced when you get over certain income thresholds, or just over crossing the threshold for paying AMT. But that only affects the top 10%+ of earners, and I'm sure a lot of those people play with pretax deductions to get back under the taxable income limits.

I hand complete and use free file for my taxes every year, and it really is illuminating the types of limits and calculations that you need to go through, just to see if a few dividend dollars needs to be taxed at X% or X+-Y%. Each line item has a constituent, though, so getting rid of anything ends up being a fight. I'd definitely help to burn Turbo Tax and H&R block to the ground to simplify things.

Also, the final amount of tax paid always seems to be ludicrously small considering we the amazing country we live in. I know libertarians/republicans consider the tens of thousands we pay each year as "theft", but I think it's a small price to pay for living in a safe community, with fire, police, water, regulations, roads, safe transit, standard banking, and basic protections against chaos (YMMV, of course). That's why I'm taking this presidency so personally. >:-|
posted by Hermeowne Grangepurr at 10:04 AM on September 21, 2017 [20 favorites]

Related to Glibpaxman's comment: I volunteer in a nonprofit that works with farmers mainly in Minnesota, trying to maintain local community control over things like frac sand mining and the creation/expansion of factory farms. The framing that we use to push for local control, while still prioritizing peoples' rights, may be useful to folks arguing against the type of thinking exemplified by this: Return power to the states to make decisions on healthcare, unlike the one size fits all policy of Obamacare. So, here it is:

When we say Community X should be allowed to decide whether or not to ban frac sand mining, left-leaning people sometimes come back with "where does it end?" People get concerned that that opens the door for communities to ban a mosque or a gay bar. But our view is, there has to be a floor on rights. Discrimination against a religion or a protected identity - that is not acceptable. It is below the minimum of what we should allow in our communities. But a community should be able to decide to protect local farmers by not letting in an operation that will impact their air quality, for example.

So, when the state Republicans here wanted to pass a law to counteract the $15 minimum wage ordinance passed in Minneapolis, that violates our local right to set community standards. However, the state passing a $15 minimum wage would raise the floor for everyone.

Anyway, all this is to say, I apply this to the ACA as well. There is a floor for what must be provided. But it is no one-size-fits-all system. States could run with it all the way up to single payer. The ACA could be improved by raising the floor, but not by demolishing the floor in the name of states' rights. Human rights exist too.

It took me a while to really wrap my head around the seeming contradiction between local/states rights and laws that affect a broader population, so I wanted to share this way of thinking about it. Hopefully I explained it properly.
posted by Emmy Rae at 10:04 AM on September 21, 2017 [22 favorites]

Unless you have a lot of really small jobs, where they assume you're in the tax bracket for the individual paycheck you are receiving, even without bringing the deductions into it, and at the end they say you owe them an enormous check you had no idea about.

This is the situation that was in my mind earlier. I have seen it happen, in which someone takes on more work in this fashion, and expects a larger return, but discovers the opposite when the time comes. I jumped to a conclusion as to cause.
posted by perspicio at 10:05 AM on September 21, 2017

Pray for the Parliamentarian and a full Byrd bath, which would strip the ACA waiver option from the latest zombie bill, and would make anything attractive to the moderates disappear.

WaPo: Cassidy-Graham could still blow up in the GOP’s face. Here’s how.

But the whole bill could still change — in a big way. In addition to killing the mandate and the Medicaid expansion and subsidies and replacing them with block grants to states that will mean less money for many of them, Cassidy-Graham also allows states to seek waivers from the ACA’s provisions that prevent insurers from gouging people with preexisting conditions and require them to cover essential health benefits.

This is meant to give states “flexibility,” in part to use federal funds to cover people as they see fit, and in part to let insurers offer skimpier coverage and/or lower prices for healthy people. It’s also why the bill would effectively weaken or kill protections for people with preexisting conditions — while insurers cannot explicitly deny those people coverage, they can jack up their premiums and decline to offer benefits they need, leaving them stranded.

But some health policy analysts think there’s a decent chance that the parliamentarian will strike those deregulatory features under the Byrd Rule, because they don’t have a direct budgetary component. Daniel Hemel of the University of Chicago, for instance, points out that a very similar feature was struck from a previous GOP repeal bill and thinks it should — and very well may — happen again.

posted by Hermeowne Grangepurr at 10:13 AM on September 21, 2017 [9 favorites]

As recent reports have suggested, Facebook has enabled all sorts of unsavory domestic groups, as well as foreign governments to purchase advertising in order to mold opinion or urge people to action. However, there may be a component to those actions that we haven't discussed much. Josh Marshall has some pretty interesting analysis on that question:Are We Missing a Big Part of the Facebook Story?

Back in May The Wall Street Journal ran a fascinating article about a Florida political operative named Aaron Nevins. When news reports surfaced identifying the online persona Guccifer 2.0 as the one who had the files hacked from the DNC, Aarons [sic]essentially cold-emailed Guccifer 2.0 and asked if he had any material to share on Florida. That was on August 12th, 2016. It turns out he did. A lot. [...]

Nevins posted some of that data on his anonymous Florida politics blog. Guccifer 2.0 in turn sent that link to Roger Stone. There’s a whole other mystery about what happened to that data from there, who may have used it, what Stone did with it and so forth. But let’s set that aside for the moment. Nevins just asked for whatever “Florida based information” Guccifer 2.0 might have. He had a lot. There’s every reason to believe that Guccifer 2.0 had comparable data for other states and that he had data from multiple Democratic campaign committees. At least he had information from the DCCC and the DNC.

US intelligence believes Guccifer 2.0 is a fictive persona created by Russian military intelligence. The Facebook campaigns appear to have been run out of a St. Petersburg, Russia troll farm called the Internet Research Agency (IRA). The IRA is nominally a privately owned operation. But it seems clearly to work on behalf of the Russian government, even if it is technically independent from it. In any case, the big picture should be clear. If the Russian election disruption campaign needed election and voter data to effectively target its digital campaigns, they seem to have had a lot of it, precisely the kind of detailed data on strong partisans and more marginal voters that would be key to directing such an effort.

This situation is obviously a major problem for the continued integrity of our elections, since it is possible that Russia--and possibly other advanced global cyber-warfare groups--may have extremely detailed data on the voting habits of our systems. Furthermore, the disintermediated, highly targeted advertising companies like Facebook provide make it extremely easy for said groups to cause major problems in our public discourse.

We need much more campaign finance transparency, protective regulations on political advertising, and serious reforms to combat the money==speech model enshrined by the disastrous Citizens United decision.

This shit will keep happening until we have better cybersecurity, better voting integrity, and serious campaign finance regulatory reform.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 10:13 AM on September 21, 2017 [63 favorites]

VIRGINIA HOUSE ELECTIONS - HD 66-70

intro
1-5
6-10
11-15
16-20
21-25
26-30
31-35
36-40
41-45
46-50
51-55
56-60
61-65

===

66th District
Currently GOP seat
R cand: Kirk Cox (incumbent)
D cand: Katie Sponsler

Richmond exurbs, 75.6% white. Incumbent first elected in 1989. No D candidate in 2013 or 2015. Trump won district 59-37.

===

67th District
Currently GOP seat
R cand: Riley Ingram (incumbent)
D cand: Karrie Delaney

DC suburbs (Fairfax), 66.9% white. Incumbent first elected in 2009. R won 55-45 in 2013, no D candidate in 2015. Clinton won district 60-34. Flippable Potential district.

===

68th District
Currently GOP seat
R cand: Manoli Loupassi
D cand: Dawn Adams

Richmond suburbs, 86.9% white. Incumbent first elected in 2007. No D candidate in 2013, R won 61-37 in 2015. Clinton won district 52-41. Flippable Potential district.

===

69th District
Currently Dem seat
R cand: none
D cand: Betsy Carr

Richmond, 30.8% white. Incumbent first elected in 2009. No R candidate in 2013 or 2015. Clinton won district 83-12. There is a Libertarian and a Green candidate.

===

70th District
Currently Dem seat
R cand: none
D cand: Delores McQuinn

Richmond suburbs, 29.1% white. Incumbent first elected in 2009 special. No R candidate in 2013 or 2015. Trump won district 78-19.

===

Next time: 71-75
posted by Chrysostom at 10:14 AM on September 21, 2017 [25 favorites]

Someone is going to have to explain to me, with an example, of the "lots of really small jobs" being more costly, tax-wise, than one big job.

The only actual difference, as far as I know, is that self-employed people are hit with a ~ 15% "penalty" which is paid for by your employer (and which of course is accounted for in what they offer you for compensation). The 15% covers paying for social security and medicare.
posted by maxwelton at 10:17 AM on September 21, 2017 [2 favorites]

It is not that you pay more in taxes - it is that your employer takes out less because they assume this fraction of your income is all of your income.
posted by soelo at 10:19 AM on September 21, 2017 [5 favorites]

It's not more costly to have lots of small jobs, but you might have to pay more on April 15th, because each employer will deduct less, because they're assuming that you're in the tax bracket that your salary for that job puts you in, not the tax bracket that all of your salaries combined puts you in. If you haven't been planning for that, you can be hit with a wallop at tax time. At least, that's how I read it.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 10:22 AM on September 21, 2017 [7 favorites]

It's also insidious because now in the "gig" economy, someone might be a 1099 for multiple companies (Uber, Lyft, online blog writing, Amazon deliveries), so you essentially need to make yourself into a business, and the people doing this (poor, marginal) are less likely to have the resources or know how to self-incorporate or do a basic business budget. Money that should be set aside for taxes or wear and tear on your car goes for basic living expenses, etc.
posted by Hermeowne Grangepurr at 10:22 AM on September 21, 2017 [13 favorites]

Who had Valerie Plame as the next milkshake duck?
posted by drezdn at 10:23 AM on September 21, 2017 [5 favorites]

Sean Spicer's Post-White House Redemption Tour Is Not Going So Well

Someone’s hearing the Hound of the Muellervilles howling out of the encroaching fog.

I will make the Toby Ziegler Bet—all of the money in my pockets against all the money in your pockets—that Spicer’s lawyers told him not to comment and, in his feverish fugitive’s brain, he translated this into some sort of criminality on Allen’s part simply for trying to get into contact with him. Life is getting stressful for some folks on the Trump Train.

posted by kirkaracha at 10:24 AM on September 21, 2017 [5 favorites]

Not me, because I haven't thought about Valerie Plame in a long time, but she really does seem to have drunk the Milkshake.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 10:26 AM on September 21, 2017 [3 favorites]

Oh, they'll get specific -- they'll use the Bureau of Motor Vehicles, which is a state office, as a prime example of "government waste and inefficiency" and "unresponsive bureaucracy."

And here in Indianapolis, renewing my driver's licence was easy-peasy, thank you very much, and I went into the office and didn't even do so online.

AND! Not only is the pain of the Post Office / DMV / BMV greatly exaggerated, most of the real pain points (that don't stem from under funding those departments) are because the employees have a good work environment! The stereotypical DMV worker slamming the window shut on you because it's their lunch break and they don't have to wait for one more customer isn't bad, it's something we should all get in our place of work! Everyone always complains about the terrible customers they have to interact with, but people don't seem to realize these government employees have fair-to-decent protections against obnoxious people like us!

/soapbox
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 10:31 AM on September 21, 2017 [42 favorites]

Sean Spicer's Post-White House Redemption Tour Is Not Going So Well

The fact that I saw Scaramucci host TMZ the other night gives me a little hope about our future with these political dingleberries.
posted by rhizome at 10:36 AM on September 21, 2017

The fact that I saw Scaramucci host TMZ the other night gives me a little hope about our future with these political dingleberries.

The inside story of how TMZ quietly became America’s most potent pro-Trump media outlet.

TMZ is low key pushing as many pro-Trump stories as Brietbart, the founder is explicitly directing positive coverage and killing anything negative. And it reaches a much more diverse and millennial skewed demo than FOX or any other Republican propaganda organ.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:45 AM on September 21, 2017 [27 favorites]

The fact that I saw Scaramucci host TMZ the other night gives me a little hope about our future with these political dingleberries.

In this world, there is only fame. Infamy does not exist; whatever you did to draw eyeballs is all that matters., and if they think you will continue to draw eyeballs.*

*offer valid only for white men
posted by nubs at 10:45 AM on September 21, 2017 [8 favorites]

I work two part-time jobs that individually would have me in a lower tax bracket but together put me in a higher one. What happens every year is that my slim Federal return just barely covers the deficit I owe to the state. I consider it a wash, which is the only reason I haven't fixed it at the withholding stage yet.
posted by carsonb at 10:47 AM on September 21, 2017 [2 favorites]

GOP lawmakers and Walker added special requirements on the courts system for handling any Foxconn lawsuits.

Further on the list of 2017 casualties: the overt acceptance of the concept of equality before the law.
posted by jaduncan at 10:57 AM on September 21, 2017 [28 favorites]

GOP lawmakers and Walker added special requirements on the courts system for handling any Foxconn lawsuits.

I'm just a policy wonk, not an actual lawyer, but isn't that a pretty blatant violation of equal protection?
posted by nickmark at 11:00 AM on September 21, 2017 [17 favorites]

Republicans Attempt to Buy Murkowski's Vote in New Draft of Health Care Bill

The buyoff they're offering Murkowski basically lets Alaska opt out of everything in Graham-Cassidy and keep Obamacare subsidies unchanged. If Murkowski flips she's condemning the rest of the country to death while Alaska will suffer no consequences.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:10 AM on September 21, 2017 [51 favorites]

All Americans have equal protection, but some Americans have more equal protection than others.
posted by kirkaracha at 11:14 AM on September 21, 2017 [24 favorites]

Alaskan Amnesty
posted by Glibpaxman at 11:16 AM on September 21, 2017

Seems like a good time to repeat this comment upthread from Doktor Zed:

n.b. ❄️Mama Snowflake ❄️️‏ @northeast_mama Sep 18
Just called Lisa Murkowski's office & was told they WELCOME calls from those outside the state.

Please call! 202.224.6665 #GrahamCassidy

posted by carsonb at 11:16 AM on September 21, 2017 [15 favorites]

I think that Alaskans would be really naive to assume that any special treatment will remain in effect when they don't hold the one decisive vote. Ultimately, they'll be as screwed as the rest of us, and they should call Lisa Murkowski and remind her of that.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 11:17 AM on September 21, 2017 [24 favorites]

Campaign finance bills pass Michigan Senate, give more power to big donors, critics say:

Senate Republicans on Thursday passed a bill they say codifies the 2010 Supreme Court ruling in Citizens United vs. Federal Elections Commission, but critics say amounts to "Citizens United on steroids."

posted by bardophile at 11:18 AM on September 21, 2017 [1 favorite]

Gary Baum, Hollywood Reporter: L.A. Alt-Media Agitator (Not Breitbart) Clashes With Google, Snopes

"Reality is how you perceive it. You can change that perception of reality — dictate it." Most journalism barons don't deal in metaphysics. For digital upstart Sean Adl-Tabatabai, 36, who talks of "the holographic nature of the world," and his husband and business partner, Sinclair Treadway, 24, it could be a credo.

Your News Wire, their 3-year-old website of murky fact and slippery spin, has in the past year helped usher Donna Brazile out of her CNN gig and foment the Pizzagate frenzy with a key early post (which has generated 28,000 Facebook shares), all from an unlikely HQ for an alt-media operation: the couple's live/work apartment at the historic El Royale (sometime home to the likes of Katie Holmes, Josh Brolin and Cameron Diaz) in L.A.'s Hancock Park.

Now YNW is emerging alongside the more high-profile Breitbart as an integral player in the Trump era's L.A. alt-media axis. Despite Google's decision to cut off YNW's ad revenue and fact-checking site Snopes' relentless efforts to debunk its incendiary reports, its founders are more energized than ever, as Treadway puts it, "to focus on what people aren't focusing on — the information that the public isn't already being told."

Christ, what a pair of assholes.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 11:42 AM on September 21, 2017 [23 favorites]

GOP lawmakers and Walker added special requirements on the courts system for handling any Foxconn lawsuits.

I'm just a policy wonk, not an actual lawyer, but isn't that a pretty blatant violation of equal protection?

I'm just a lawyer, and not an American Constitutional lawyer, but it looks to me to be a blatant denial of due process protections. There is, in effective terms, no court of first instance, and that's coupled with a denial of remedy. Also (and I am less certain on this), there's a separation of powers argument against it, in that the legislative branch is arbitrarily restricting the court's ability to perform its true function in rendering decisions.

I leave it to those more familiar with the US Constitution to correct me, however. But on just the smell test, this is roadkill skunk.
posted by Capt. Renault at 11:44 AM on September 21, 2017 [17 favorites]

his husband and business partner, Sinclair Treadway

Who, against all odds, is a human being, and not a piece of exercise equipment.

"You look great! What's your secret?" "Thirty minutes three times a week on my Sinclair Treadway."
posted by Faint of Butt at 11:48 AM on September 21, 2017 [43 favorites]

Who, against all odds, is a human being, and not a piece of exercise equipment.

Could be both.
posted by darkstar at 12:09 PM on September 21, 2017 [3 favorites]

its founders are more energized than ever, as Treadway puts it, "to focus on what people aren't focusing on — the information that the public isn't already being told."

So, about black people and LGBT? Let us now hold our breaths.
posted by rhizome at 12:11 PM on September 21, 2017 [2 favorites]

Senate Bill 24601, the "Putting the Screws to the Non-Rich, Especially in the Blue States, with Special Bribes for the Holdout Republicans Health Care Bill."

PSNR EBS SBHR HCB for short.
posted by darkstar at 12:15 PM on September 21, 2017 [7 favorites]

Hey, remember a few threads ago when I was in the hospital? The bills have started rolling in. I'm really fortunate to have a good job and insurance, but even with that it's going to be really tight. And I'm still thousands of dollars away from the out-of-pocket max for the year.

This is all because of my Klippel-Trenaunay syndrome, which I've mentioned before; it sometimes gets infected which is some pretty serious stuff. Anyway, I don't know what would happen if insurers weren't required to cover my pre-existing condition. I do know that going back to a lifetime benefit cap would get brutal, since these infections land me in the hospital on average once a year for three or four nights, usually via the ER. So, not too thrilled about that.

Given that I have reason to expect I'll end up in the hospital sometime in the next year, you'd think the HSA my employer offers along with our mandatory high deductible plan would be a nice little way to save up for some of those expenses, right? And so I max out my contributions to the HSA, and have been for three or four years. But here's the thing: Right now I've got less than $500 in the HSA, and I've never been able to accumulate much more than that or roll much from one year to the next. Because one thing my insurance doesn't cover is the wound dressings I use to try to prevent my damn leg from getting infected and landing me in the hospital in the first place. (Yeah, the dressings that show up on the scanners and cause TSA to make me drop my pants in the airport.) Turns out those things are pretty expensive, and so I use up all my HSA money buying them. Which means no pile of savings to deal with the hospital bills. So I gotta pay them out of regular money.

Now, I'm super lucky: I have a good six-figure job and so does my wife; we'll grumble about the hospital bills but all it really means is maybe we have to float the credit card for an extra month or something. We'll be fine. But if I lost coverage for my leg entirely, or we went back to a plan with lifetime caps? That would be a disaster - and we're the folks who have it the best. I can't even imagine the devastation this bill represents for people who are already struggling.

So I left as much of that as I could on Senator Murkowski's voicemail, and told the kid at Senator Franken's office that Al really needs to do whatever he has to to get Murkowski to do the right thing. I'm gonna call Amy Klobuchar's office next.
posted by nickmark at 12:20 PM on September 21, 2017 [81 favorites]

The Rude Pundit: Fresh Health Care Fuckery: Your McCain Praise Was Probably Wasted

Graham-Cassidy Dicks Over So Many People (and Its Sponsors Are Liars)

Republicans Admit the Whole Trumpcare Scam by Bribing Lisa Murkowski With More Obamacare
posted by homunculus at 12:24 PM on September 21, 2017 [15 favorites]

Has there been another time in US History when a bill so thoroughly detested by the public has been repeatedly up for a vote like this?

Good question!! I'd need to google more, but I'm guessing there may have been something like that around either Prohibition or World War I.
posted by Melismata at 12:29 PM on September 21, 2017 [6 favorites]

Okay, I had a bunch of postcards printed up with a picture of a skeleton in a wheelchair with the meme-like caption "ME AFTER MEDICAID CUTS". Anyone want some for writing their own angry screeds to their representatives? I know this probably won't be effective for Graham-Cassidy due to how long congressional mail takes, but since Republicans keep trying to cut Medicaid it will only be a matter of time before they're needed.
posted by Soliloquy at 12:38 PM on September 21, 2017 [4 favorites]

> Which means if she votes no, Alaska and everyone else keeps the ACA. If she votes yes, Alaska keeps it and everyone is screwed.

Guys. It's time for some game theory...
posted by klarck at 12:39 PM on September 21, 2017 [5 favorites]

Which means if she votes no, Alaska and everyone else keeps the ACA.

To a Republican, this would be a loss.

If she votes yes, Alaska keeps it and everyone is screwed.

To a Republican, this would be a win.

In fact, this would be the only way to win.
posted by Atom Eyes at 12:40 PM on September 21, 2017 [7 favorites]

Guys, it's time to move to Alaska.
posted by oneswellfoop at 12:41 PM on September 21, 2017 [2 favorites]

The bribe to win Murkowski's vote is that Alaska (and only Alaska) gets to keep the ACA. Which means if she votes no, Alaska and everyone else keeps the ACA. If she votes yes, Alaska keeps it and everyone is screwed.

This is the prisoner's dilemma. Your analysis only pertains if the Republicans can't find the last vote elsewhere. If they can, and she cooperates, she saves the ACA in Alaska, and if they can't, and she cooperates, she saves the ACA in Alaska. If they can, and she doesn't cooperate, she loses the ACA in Alaska, and if they can't, and she doesn't cooperate, she saves the ACA in Alaska (and everywhere else).

It's actually a pretty nasty place they've put her in.
posted by Pope Guilty at 12:47 PM on September 21, 2017 [34 favorites]

I hope she votes no. I also hope Ryan Zinke isn't threatening her again, either.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 12:50 PM on September 21, 2017 [5 favorites]

It's actually a pretty nasty place they've put her in.

To be fair, she put herself in that nasty place when she decided to run as a Republican.
posted by Atom Eyes at 12:50 PM on September 21, 2017 [24 favorites]

It's actually a pretty nasty place they've put her in.

Alternately, she can tell them she'll take the deal so it gets in the bill, then vote against the bill. If it passes without her, she saves ACA in Alaska; if it fails because of her vote, she saves ACA for Alaska (and everywhere).

Also, I saw Hawaii is included in the exemption for some reason? If this gets in the final bill start calling it the "President Obama Birthplace Better Healthcare Exemption" and see if that can peel off a few R votes.
posted by mikepop at 12:56 PM on September 21, 2017 [19 favorites]

In June, Murkowski said this:

"Let's just say that they do something that's so Alaska-specific just to, quote, 'get me', then you have a nationwide system that doesn't work. That then comes crashing down and Alaska's not able to kind of keep it together on its own."
posted by chris24 at 12:57 PM on September 21, 2017 [36 favorites]

Murkowski has previously said that it would take more than carve-outs for Alaska to win her vote, because it's ridiculous to imagine that if healthcare in the rest of the country collapses that wouldn't affect Alaskans. We'll see if she stands by that.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 12:57 PM on September 21, 2017 [7 favorites]

Ok, I'm confused. Are we sitting at a vote on Motion to Proceed or are we sitting on a vote for the actual thing itself? Is this going to be another round of letting it proceed and then killing it?
posted by fluttering hellfire at 12:58 PM on September 21, 2017 [1 favorite]

We're still operating under the original motion to proceed. This is an amendment to that bill, which would be offered in the same way that "skinny repeal" was (and which will hopefully fail just as spectacularly).
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 1:00 PM on September 21, 2017

Are we sitting at a vote on Motion to Proceed or are we sitting on a vote for the actual thing itself? Is this going to be another round of letting it proceed and then killing it?

I believe we're almost to the part where Kafka gets frustrated and quits mid-sentence, leaving us forever in a kind of hellish limbo state because Max Brod won't even have the decency to toss the manuscript into the flames to fulfill the author's dying wish.
posted by Atom Eyes at 1:06 PM on September 21, 2017 [33 favorites]

You never know, maybe the 90 seconds of debate will be enough to lay out some brilliant and incontrovertible policy arguments in favor of sweeping changes to 1/6 of the world's largest economy.
posted by Justinian at 1:06 PM on September 21, 2017 [15 favorites]

Republicans are treating this like a final project they spent all semester willfully ignoring. As the deadline approaches they act panicked, victimized, and surprised.
posted by Glibpaxman at 1:08 PM on September 21, 2017 [31 favorites]

it's ridiculous to imagine that if healthcare in the rest of the country collapses that wouldn't affect Alaskans.

Good luck getting an Airlift Northwest to Harborview in Seattle after Medicare and Medicaid blow up and the ACA payments are scrapped.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 1:08 PM on September 21, 2017 [14 favorites]

But as ProPublica has detailed again and again, Intuit — the makers of TurboTax — and H&R Block have lobbied for years to derail any move toward such a system

I know this is a popular story, but it is less than the full truth. TurboTax and H&R Block already provide free tax returns for people with simple W-2 returns so they have little to lose with the IRS handling these returns themselves. The tax prep businesses make their money off people with complicated tax returns -- various types of income, rentals, capital gains and losses, lots of complicated deductions and credits.

We actually have a real world case that gets closer to the truth. California implemented a trial program in which the state pre-computed state income taxes and sent a card to the taxpayer to sign. The trial program was wildly popular.

So they then tried to get the new system passed into law by the legislature. They came within one or two votes, but it was rejected at the last moment. Why? Not because of Intuit or H&R Block. But because of "drown the government in a bathtub" Grover Norquist. Norquist wants to make paying taxes as painful as possible to rally support for anti-tax crusaders. He threatened to primary anyone who voted for simpler taxes.

So, no, it's not the tax preparation businesses that are the major opposition. It's Grover Norquist and his powerful Americans for Tax Reform PAC. He wants tax preparation to be painful.
posted by JackFlash at 1:14 PM on September 21, 2017 [77 favorites]

You'd think we'd all be parliamentary experts at this point but... anyone know when the Byrd Bath for this monstrosity would occur, assuming McConnell and the rest of his healtcare death squad decide to keep on keeping on?
posted by Justinian at 1:17 PM on September 21, 2017 [1 favorite]

You'd think we'd all be parliamentary experts at this point but... anyone know when the Byrd Bath for this monstrosity would occur, assuming McConnell and the rest of his healtcare death squad decide to keep on keeping on?

September 30th I believe.
posted by Talez at 1:20 PM on September 21, 2017

There is, in effective terms, no court of first instance, and that's coupled with a denial of remedy.

Could someone break this down for me? I don't follow.
posted by Coventry at 1:22 PM on September 21, 2017

I'm hoping that something epic happens in those 90 seconds and John McCain tells everyone to fuck off and retires on the spot. Then he can't vote and there's no way to get past 49.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 1:29 PM on September 21, 2017 [5 favorites]

I know this is a popular story, but it is less than the full truth. TurboTax and H&R Block already provide free tax returns for people with simple W-2 returns so they have little to lose with the IRS handling these returns themselves.

They would lose all the money they make off of their "rapid refund" programs. These are short-term, high-interest loans that (plus assorted fees) that make the tax prep industry over a billion dollars a year. If fewer people need help filing their taxes, even the simple returns, there would be fewer opportunities for the tax prep industry to upsell these ripoff refund anticipation loans.
posted by peeedro at 1:29 PM on September 21, 2017 [14 favorites]

Why is Trump on Fox saying that he thought that once he won, he'd sit down at his desk at the Oval Office and there'd be a health care bill there?

I mean I know he's an idiot and crazy, but I wonder what instinct is compelling him to neg Congress.
posted by angrycat at 1:32 PM on September 21, 2017 [8 favorites]

My familiarity with Congressional procedure and the regular order for legislation remains vague at best, so I don't know if it's the current Congress/Administration/Etc. or just the way things have always gone, largely shielded from public scrutiny by the stupefying monotony of C-SPAN, but the closer I follow the more this all looks like the world's highest-stakes game of Calvinball.
posted by Phobos the Space Potato at 1:34 PM on September 21, 2017 [5 favorites]

Paul Kane, WaPo: Behind the Senate GOP’s high-stakes health-care gamble: Unrelenting criticism back home

Senate Republicans have made a calculated decision: Better to fail again trying to repeal the Affordable Care Act than not to try at all.

That bet, made out of fear rather than a sense that victory is any nearer than it has been all year, can be traced to this year’s August recess — the five-week stretch back home that immediately followed the Senate’s previous, failed attempt to overhaul the nation’s health-care laws. The late-summer break, distant as it already feels to many of us, remains fresh in some lawmakers’ minds.

It did not entail the kind of high-profile clashes at town halls that Democrats faced eight years ago as they began drafting the Affordable Care Act — or that House Republicans confronted at the start of the year, when their repeal effort took shape. Nevertheless, according to GOP senators and aides, Republicans faced an unrelenting barrage of confrontations with some of their closest supporters, donors and friends. The moments occurred in small gatherings that proved even more meaningful than a caustic town hall — at meetings with local business executives, at church, at parks.

It didn’t matter if those friends and allies were big-time supporters of President Trump or part of the “Never Trump” crowd of purist conservatives opposed to his hostile takeover of the GOP. By August, those two wings came together in their sheer, utter contempt toward a Republican-controlled Congress that could not back up its most basic promise, to repeal Obamacare. Trump’s hectoring via social media egged them all on.

Not exactly profiles in courage.
posted by ZeusHumms at 1:36 PM on September 21, 2017 [13 favorites]

In case anyone is interested, you can volunteer to prepare tax returns for low income people. I participated in a VITA program in NYC for several years and they give you a training and there's a manager who checks everything before you submit it, so you don't need prior tax knowledge. They also restrict it to people w/out certain items (e.g., business deductions), so they are straightforward returns. It's a great way to help the community; it's also 95% seated, computer work and many locations are accessible; the hours are great for students, retirees, and SAHPs whose kids are in school.
posted by melissasaurus at 1:38 PM on September 21, 2017 [26 favorites]

This is entirely preventable on an individual basis by personally calculating what you should be withholding, and asking each employer to withhold more, or by setting aside money to pay those bills. And that this is, in practice, actually a huge hassle that few people enjoy is exactly why putting the onus for employees, and not employers or the government, to get this right is a bad idea. We get to, as a society, determine what everyone's personal responsibility should be, and I'd personally be much happier having the IRS be responsible for telling people what they owe to avoid this kind of situation, where someone's lack of understanding compounds on itself to create a preventable problem.

This is a side effect of having progressive tax rates. If you want a regressive Republican single flat tax, the problem goes away. There is a small price to be paid for progressiveness.

Your employer and the IRS can't solve it for you. Your employer doesn't know how much you are getting paid by your other employer. The IRS doesn't know if you intend to work two jobs for the full year, or maybe part of the year or change jobs in mid-year or go back to school. Only you have any knowledge of this.

But with your personal knowledge you can use the W-4 form you fill out for each employer to make sure you have something close to the correct amount of withholding. And guess what, the IRS provides a handy on-line calculator to help you get it right. And TuboTax and H&R Block also provide free withholding calculators.

And this makes little difference to people of modest income. They probably aren't going to be paying much income tax anyway.

If you want a progressive tax system, you are gonna have to put a little effort into it.
posted by JackFlash at 1:38 PM on September 21, 2017 [4 favorites]

but I wonder what instinct is compelling him to neg Congress.

He still doesn't get that Congress is not subordinate to him, that they're not his employees, so he's trying the same kind of dominance display/threats that work on his actual employees.

IOW, he's an idiot.
posted by soundguy99 at 1:38 PM on September 21, 2017 [15 favorites]

Why is Trump on Fox saying that he thought that once he won, he'd sit down at his desk at the Oval Office and there'd be a health care bill there?

Because the Republicans had been promising to repeal and replace Obamacare for seven years and he believed they were doing something about it except complaining.
posted by kirkaracha at 1:39 PM on September 21, 2017 [12 favorites]

Alright so I called my Senators (Utah - Hatch & Lee) after emailing them earlier and this is what I got:

1) I got through right away. So PLEASE call your senators' offices, especially in Utah as there's literally no wait time.

I asked if they had a decision on the bill. I also stated that I wanted them to oppose it as I had chronic illness and it was not fair to be priced out of health insurance for myself or my friends.

2) Lee's office staff clearly has a script they are reading from that's total bullshit mumbling about how their are provisions to protect preexisting conditions and yada yada low income something or other... which as far as I can tell isn't true. However they DID say that he is awaiting the new CBO score as the bill may change between now and then. So it sounded like he at least maybe isn't happy about millions losing health insurance? Even though he would vote for it anyway??

She then thanked me for calling and took my name and city. She did say they appreciate hearing from us. My husband got the same sort of script when he called them.

3) Hatch's office didn't give me any sort of script. I said my piece and they took my name and zip down as opposed.

I wish I had the health situation to call all of the senators, but I feel like crap today.

I had seen some things about certain ones taking out of state calls? Do we have confirmation which those are?
posted by Crystalinne at 1:41 PM on September 21, 2017 [19 favorites]

Fresh Health Care Fuckery: Your McCain Praise Was Probably Wasted

In all the time the GOP has had, since the passage of the Affordable Care Act, since the election, since the failure of the "Fuck You, We Don't Care If You Die Bankrupt" bill in July, they have not made a case for repeal except "We said we'd do it." It's like a bunch of morons promising to light their farts if their favorite team wins a championship. The only people who wanna see that are other morons.

posted by kirkaracha at 1:42 PM on September 21, 2017 [19 favorites]

"Why is Trump on Fox saying that he thought that once he won, he'd sit down at his desk at the Oval Office and there'd be a health care bill there?"

Because the Republicans had been promising to repeal and replace Obamacare for seven years and he believed they were doing something about it except complaining.

So... He thought they were being honest when they said they had a great plan, even though HE wasn't being honest when he said HE had a great plan?

I mean I think Trump voters thought once Trump won he'd sit down at his desk and send Congress his plan!
posted by OnceUponATime at 1:45 PM on September 21, 2017 [13 favorites]

If you want a progressive tax system, you are gonna have to put a little effort into it.

I disagree: countries with far more progressive tax systems than ours somehow make it easier for the taxpayers. If the IRS was properly staffed and funded, it could take care of all but the most complicated tax returns. I like my tax preparer, and would hate to see her out of work, but I'd rather a tax system that was both progressive and easier for Americans to deal with. Most of the Scandinavian countries as well as Malta and Chile do it.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 1:47 PM on September 21, 2017 [17 favorites]

I had seen some things about certain ones taking out of state calls? Do we have confirmation which those are?

Doctor Zed posted a tweet upthread that indicated Murkowski welcomed calls from out of state.

I'd kind of like independent confirmation on this, though, because traditionally this is not the case, and there's a nagging suspicious voice in my head that says one or more staffers might say something like this to sabotage the overall number of actionable calls they have to record/deal with. (I.e., if this is *not* true and they really have no need to hear from folks out of state, and no way to meaningfully record those comments, now you potentially have 50x more calls and only 1 in 50 is actionable.) I really hope this is not the case but, Republicans.
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 1:48 PM on September 21, 2017 [10 favorites]

Fresh Health Care Fuckery: Your McCain Praise

I'm going to go all mavericky and say that, if this thing comes up for a vote, I'd take McCain voting no at about 3:2 odds.
posted by Justinian at 1:49 PM on September 21, 2017 [2 favorites]

Could someone break this down for me? I don't follow.

Generally speaking, a court of first instance is a court where evidence is first presented and tried, facts are determined, and the matter given some kind of resolution. It is the first place where a legal matter is dealt with and disposed of on a comprehensive basis. Appeal courts build on or adjust what the court of first instance has already done. The court of first instance is an essential part of any justice system, a key part of due process.

This special law changes that essential part of due process, in that the court of first instance cannot give resolution or whatever legal remedy -- its decision will be automatically suspended until dealt with by an appeals court. The court of first instance cannot perform its fundamental function of giving whatever legal remedy it determines.

It's a fundamental change to how the justice system operates. Even worse, it's an arbitrary change, because it's applicable to just this one company, and not made across the board. You cannot make that kind of fundamental change without going through the constitution. You cannot guarantee everyone due process, and simply remove or neuter a key element of that process.
posted by Capt. Renault at 1:49 PM on September 21, 2017 [12 favorites]

JackFlash: "Your employer and the IRS can't solve it for you. Your employer doesn't know how much you are getting paid by your other employer. The IRS doesn't know if you intend to work two jobs for the full year, or maybe part of the year or change jobs in mid-year or go back to school. Only you have any knowledge of this."

How does it work in other countries where the government calculates your taxes for you? Serious question.
posted by Chrysostom at 1:50 PM on September 21, 2017 [1 favorite]

Two unicycles and some duct tape: "
I'd kind of like independent confirmation on this, though, because traditionally this is not the case"

FWIW, Indivisible is saying don't do this.
posted by Chrysostom at 1:51 PM on September 21, 2017 [4 favorites]

To put it another way, I think the odds of McCain voting no are about the same as the odds of Clinton winning the election just before election day! And we know how that turned out!
posted by Justinian at 1:52 PM on September 21, 2017 [1 favorite]

Thanks, Capt. Renault. With that and re-reading cjelli's pull quote, it made sense to me.
posted by Coventry at 1:55 PM on September 21, 2017

Honorable, more honorable than me
Loyal to the Bank of America
...
Exhuming McCarthy

God where we're at is so sad. Maybe all this shit is compost for the brighter day ahead?

The future's so bright
I gotta wear shades
posted by riverlife at 1:57 PM on September 21, 2017 [2 favorites]

They would lose all the money they make off of their "rapid refund" programs.

Your link is to a story from 2010. Since then things have changed and the "refund anticipation loan", RAL, has pretty much disappeared. First off, in 2011, the IRS stopped releasing the debt status of taxpayers. Lenders used this information to determine the amount of the expected refund. Without this information lenders are reluctant to make these loans because they may not get their money back.

Also, the IRS now mandates that tax prep companies file electronic returns. This means that taxpayers can get their refunds direct deposited into their bank accounts in a little as one or two weeks. This pretty much eliminates the rational for advance refunds when in the past refunds took 6 weeks or more.

So your information is pretty out of date. RALs are a small part of the tax preparation business these days which is one reason why they aren't the biggest obstacle to simplified tax returns for W-2 earners.
posted by JackFlash at 1:58 PM on September 21, 2017 [11 favorites]

Doctor Zed posted a tweet upthread that indicated Murkowski welcomed calls from out of state.

I'd kind of like independent confirmation on this, though, because traditionally this is not the case, and there's a nagging suspicious voice in my head that says one or more staffers might say something like this to sabotage the overall number of actionable calls they have to record/deal with.

I checked in on that Twitter account for updates and found this from yesterday afternoon:

Hey, tweeps. I deleted the tweet about calling Murkowski's office. I never expected it to blow up as it did and /1
I'm concerned that the out-of-state calls are tying up the lines. THIS online tool* is excellent & allows you to call those with Senators /2
who are undecided on #GrahamCassidy. If they agree, it patches them right in. If you have time, please do some calling and/or share.

* https://www.trumpcareten.org/calls-to-kill-trumpcare

I faxed Senator Murkowski's D.C. office since that's my preferred medium of communication, so hopefully I haven't gummed up the works. (The supine Sen. Pat Toomey's office numbers almost always go to voice mail, which has conditioned me to use the phone as a method of last resort.)
posted by Doktor Zed at 2:02 PM on September 21, 2017 [13 favorites]

Politico: Mueller wants Air Force One phone records.
posted by Chrysostom at 2:08 PM on September 21, 2017 [86 favorites]

As far as "why would Republican senators - or any senators - want to pass something so unpopular with their constituents" - I don't think it's a matter of them Bravely Standing Up For What Is Right, or It's A Republic Not A Democracy.

I think it's more like, "We don't answer to our constituents: we answer to our donors." Donors, not constituents, are the ones calling the shots for Republicans, at least - and for at least some Democrats too; witness Max Baucus' about-face on Medicare for all, once he retired and was free to speak without donors with a vested interest in our broken system breathing down his neck.

So even if the constituents are furious, if the Koch brothers, Mercers, et al, want repeal, well, you got to dance with them that brung you, as the late, great, national treasure Molly Ivins titled one of her books.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 2:08 PM on September 21, 2017 [18 favorites]

How does it work in other countries where the government calculates your taxes for you? Serious question.

You are confusing two completely different issues.
1. Can the IRS compute your taxes for you in April like other countries? Yes they can, for most people with simple W-2 tax returns. But Grover Norquist and other anti-tax crusaders don't want your tax return to be simple. So it is not happening.

2. Can the IRS or employer calculate how much withholding to take out of each paycheck if you have a progressive tax system? Not if you have multiple employers, unless you indicate to your employers your other income when you fill out the W-4 form when you are hired. When you have multiple jobs, there is no way for employers to know what your total income will be for the year. You need to run the IRS or other withholding calculator which helps you instruct your employers how much withholding to take out of each paycheck.
posted by JackFlash at 2:11 PM on September 21, 2017 [6 favorites]

I had some failed faxes to the Toomster's office, so hopefully they just haven't decided to let the fax machine run out of paper. I did my usual faxing to a bunch of his offices, so I think the Harrisburg and Scranton ones went through.
posted by angrycat at 2:25 PM on September 21, 2017 [1 favorite]

God where we're at is so sad. Maybe all this shit is compost for the brighter day ahead?

The future's so bright
I gotta wear shades

uh you might not want to look to that song for hope for better days

Pat revealed on VH1's 100 Greatest One-Hit Wonders of the 80s that the meaning of the song was widely misinterpreted as a positive perspective in regard to the near future. Pat somewhat clarified the meaning by stating that it was, contrary to popular belief, a "grim" outlook. While not saying so directly, he hinted at the idea that the bright future was in fact due to impending nuclear holocaust. The "job waiting" after graduation signified the demand for nuclear scientists to facilitate such events. Pat drew upon the multitude of past predictions which transcend several cultures that foreshadow the world ending in the 1980s, along with the nuclear tension at the height of the Cold War to compile the song.

posted by murphy slaw at 2:26 PM on September 21, 2017 [14 favorites]

We don't answer to our constituents: we answer to our donors." Donors, not constituents, are the ones calling the shots for Republicans

They're beholden to their constituents too, but only the select few that dominate the primaries. And those constituents hate Obama with a passion for the most part and are genuinely part of what's driving the current situation.

And as long as the rest of the Republican base reliably shows up and votes for whoever has an (R) next to their name, regardless of their policies or voting history, that's going to continue.
posted by Candleman at 2:27 PM on September 21, 2017 [1 favorite]

...and it might NOT continue after the next election, but they're not going to change until it's proven to be different. And pollsters and their analysis aren't going to prove it, only actual election results will. Which is why I continue to hold out hope that the humiliating stupidity of Trumpy is really going to undermine the frighteningly solid foundation of Republican awfulness.
posted by oneswellfoop at 2:32 PM on September 21, 2017 [1 favorite]

Huh. Sanders is debating Graham on Monday night on CSPAN re: health care.

Little worried that Sanders is being used as some sort of socialist boogeyman, here.
posted by angrycat at 2:33 PM on September 21, 2017 [15 favorites]

@roguepotusstaff has been quiet since 8/16. I'm trying to figure out what firings were around that time.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 2:37 PM on September 21, 2017 [2 favorites]

I think Trump voters thought

See, there's your problem.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 2:38 PM on September 21, 2017 [14 favorites]

I volunteered for a VITA program this year and it was so rewarding. Sign up in December or earlier, because the training usually starts in mid January. The one I work for is open 3-4 days per week, but I only did Saturdays.
posted by soelo at 2:41 PM on September 21, 2017 [3 favorites]

TurboTax and H&R Block already provide free tax returns for people with simple W-2 returns
I think qualifying for a free return from them is pretty strict and/or has a low income ceiling, because people who came to our VITA site have told me they were charged $300 or more for a simple Federal return - not 1040EZ simple, but two W-2s and a mortgage deduction simple. They came to us to get their state return done because that would be another fee, though I don't recall how much. We used TaxSlayer and they provide a specific environment for the program.
posted by soelo at 2:47 PM on September 21, 2017 [5 favorites]

@roguepotusstaff has been quiet since 8/16. I'm trying to figure out what firings were around that time.

I was always on team "roguepotusstaff is fake news". But that's almost exactly the time Bannon was fired, so maybe it was one of his lackeys? Or him! That would be wonderful. Gorka was fired around then too. Did he have staff?
posted by dis_integration at 2:48 PM on September 21, 2017 [5 favorites]

The Hill says the healthcare debate thing is supposed to be on CNN.

I realize there are good principles to be pursued here about public debate of important policy stuff but all I'm seeing here is a network wanting to reclaim the spotlight of the elections. High stakes, high drama. I'm kinda ready to claw my face off.

I may be slightly cynical. Also, Cassidy and Graham know their bill is shit, so I have to wonder what their game is in being willing to do this.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 2:48 PM on September 21, 2017 [7 favorites]

Also, Cassidy and Graham know their bill is shit, so I have to wonder what their game is in being willing to do this.

I assume they'll just lie constantly? That's what they've done in every interview so far.
posted by Emmy Rae at 2:50 PM on September 21, 2017 [6 favorites]

My fear is that Sanders starts defending single payer rather than the ACA, which is what should be happening for the next 10 days.
posted by Justinian at 2:50 PM on September 21, 2017 [37 favorites]

Wolf Blitzer: ...and of course we'll allow both sides equal time to make their arguments. Senator Cassidy?
Cassidy: *belches*
Wolf Blitzer: Senator Sanders, your response?
Sanders: Wolf, health care is—
Wolf Blitzer: Obviously, emotions run high on both sides.
posted by Faint of Butt at 2:53 PM on September 21, 2017 [43 favorites]

I can't wait to see how CNN brands this debate.

HEALTHMAGEDDON 2017: THE WAR FOR THE PLANET OF THE ACHES
posted by Atom Eyes at 2:58 PM on September 21, 2017 [24 favorites]

My fear is that Sanders starts defending single payer rather than the ACA, which is what should be happening for the next 10 days.

I agree with that, but you know... It was enlightening to me that my Republican Rep saw no difference between a mandatory insurance premium and a tax. And that in context I didn't really see a difference either (yes, a private company is involved, but the government often hires private contractors anyway...) My Republican rep really does see the ACA as "socialism", and my defense of the ACA would've worked just as well as a defense of socialized medicine. And I say this as someone who has been a bit of a single payer skeptic, you know.

I would say that if Sanders does end up trying to defend single payer, I hope he is ready to provide more details than he has so far... But if Graham presses him for details, he can always just describe the details of the ACA instead, since that is what he is supposedly there to defend!

I wonder if Graham and Sanders will both end up agreeing, as I did with my rep, that the ACA is actually pretty socialist. With Sanders saying "That's what's good about it" and Graham insisting that's what's terrible about it.
posted by OnceUponATime at 3:03 PM on September 21, 2017 [6 favorites]

>TurboTax and H&R Block already provide free tax returns for people with simple W-2 returns
>I think qualifying for a free return from them is pretty strict and/or has a low income ceiling, because people who came to our VITA site have told me they were charged $300 or more for a simple Federal return - not 1040EZ simple, but two W-2s and a mortgage deduction simple.

There are no income limitations, but the free versions only do 1040EZ and 1040A. These handle W-2 wages, Schedule B interest and dividends, IRA deductions and the Earned Income Tax Credit.

If you want mortgage interest deduction, that requires Schedule A and Form 1040, which is not free.

This is not an ad for TurboTax or H&R Block. Just pointing out that they are not fixated on revenues from people with simple returns. These free returns could be even simpler if the IRS pre-computed it for you. They already have all the necessary information.
posted by JackFlash at 3:14 PM on September 21, 2017 [5 favorites]

Also, state returns aren't free from tax preparers. They're an additional $30-something.
posted by Talez at 3:21 PM on September 21, 2017 [2 favorites]

I hope the debate is basically just Sanders smashing Graham's hand with a ball-peen hammer, "Drive" style, then asking him how he feels about government funded health care.
posted by mrjohnmuller at 3:25 PM on September 21, 2017 [7 favorites]

Um, did I miss this above? Kim Jong Un called the Pres a mentally deranged dotard?

There's a way of handling folks like Kim, and it's not Trump's way.
posted by allthinky at 3:41 PM on September 21, 2017 [2 favorites]

Trump is a folk like Kim.
posted by Atom Eyes at 3:42 PM on September 21, 2017 [29 favorites]

You know you're in trouble when Kim Jong Un has a better grasp of reality than the President.
posted by Justinian at 3:43 PM on September 21, 2017 [8 favorites]

Trump is a folk like Kim.

I know! Which is why I'm not loving the turn to personal insult "on both sides"...
posted by allthinky at 3:49 PM on September 21, 2017

How did Klobuchar get tapped to be the one up there with Bernie? I imagine there was a behind the scenes knife fight between the, what, like 20?, Democratic Senators with eyes on 2020 to be the one next to the ostensible front runner.

A debate could probably help, but only if there's a competent moderator pressing Graham and Cassidy on blatant lies, and well, this is fucking CNN. So that won't happen.
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:50 PM on September 21, 2017 [3 favorites]

I heart Klobuchar, and I have high hopes for her performance.
posted by yesster at 3:55 PM on September 21, 2017 [7 favorites]

Politico: Mueller wants Air Force One phone records.

Well now that seems like a big deal
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:00 PM on September 21, 2017 [18 favorites]

Matt Taibbi: The Madness of Donald Trump: The pressures of the presidency have pushed Trump to the edge, but is he crazy enough to be removed from office?

Steve Bannon Splits From Trump: Hilarity Ensues. The Alabama Senate race may become a proxy for a nationwide fracturing of the Republican Party
posted by homunculus at 4:29 PM on September 21, 2017 [11 favorites]

Gonna go way out on a limb here before the JCPL spikes again; Repeal And Go Fuck Yourself V3.0 fails 52-48. I'm sure I will start panicking again inside of 3 days, though, and decide it passes 50-50(+1).
posted by Justinian at 4:34 PM on September 21, 2017 [20 favorites]

A debate could probably help, but only if there's a competent moderator pressing Graham and Cassidy on blatant lies, and well, this is fucking CNN. So that won't happen.

My thoughts exactly. This isn't a "health care" bill, this is a tax cut for the rich, but I am sure CNN will allow Republicans to pretend like they are interested in health care, and not call them on the many lies they've had to use to contort their tax cut into something to do with health care.
posted by cell divide at 4:36 PM on September 21, 2017 [2 favorites]

Ohhh, I don't like it when the JCPL comes back
posted by tivalasvegas at 4:43 PM on September 21, 2017 [38 favorites]

Well then the Republicans need to stop trying to kill me Terminator-style with this health care bullshit.
posted by Justinian at 4:44 PM on September 21, 2017 [25 favorites]

Your lips to the Writers' ears.
posted by tivalasvegas at 4:45 PM on September 21, 2017 [4 favorites]

The Madness of Donald Trump: The pressures of the presidency have pushed Trump to the edge, but is he crazy enough to be removed from office?

Watching Trump lean over a podium on the road to the presidency was like watching a stud boar hump a hole in the wall.

Actually it was a chair at the debates.
posted by kirkaracha at 4:58 PM on September 21, 2017 [2 favorites]

Justinian: "Gonna go way out on a limb here before the JCPL spikes again; Repeal And Go Fuck Yourself V3.0 fails 52-48. I'm sure I will start panicking again inside of 3 days, though, and decide it passes 50-50(+1)."

I mean, it's pretty much one or the other, yeah.
posted by Chrysostom at 4:58 PM on September 21, 2017 [1 favorite]

it's like russian roulette but you don't know how many bullets are in the gun! Fun for everyone!
posted by Justinian at 5:00 PM on September 21, 2017 [7 favorites]

Are we sure McConnell brings it up for a vote? Doesn't another high profile 11th hour own-goal hurt them even more than letting the Sept 30th deadline expire? I'm not convinced we get another McCain thumbs down moment, especially if Rand Paul is not planning on caving at the last second again.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:06 PM on September 21, 2017

He's a tax law professor at Georgetown, probably best read as legal fanfic. Like he says, there's not a lot of cases out there on the uniformity clause. I think the better question at this point is why wouldn't McCain or Capito or Portman demand the same deal for their states, and whether 3 of those other swing-ish votes would side with the 48 Democrats when the amendment to strip out the Alaska Purchase clause came for a vote in the vote-a-rama.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:15 PM on September 21, 2017 [2 favorites]

The bipartisan Medicaid Directors from all 50 states just issued this negative statement about Graham-Cassidy.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:19 PM on September 21, 2017 [35 favorites]

WTF is JCPL?
posted by yoga at 5:21 PM on September 21, 2017 [1 favorite]

"Just Can't Please Louise"
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:22 PM on September 21, 2017 [10 favorites]

"The Justinian current panic level, the current level of panic felt by user Justinian. Other users may have their own JCPL status as well."
posted by Nekosoft at 5:23 PM on September 21, 2017 [21 favorites]

McCain's vote is like a quantum particle...the closer you get to his vote, the less you know what it's going to be. The more you know about his expressed attitude toward a piece of legislation, the less you know whether he will support it.

He is an enigma, wrapped in a riddle, wrapped in an ego.

I give it a 50% chance that his vote will go either way.

The other 50% chance is that the world will spontaneously implode into a brown star from the mass of so much bullshit. +/- 4%.
posted by darkstar at 5:32 PM on September 21, 2017 [19 favorites]

Trump Poised to Drop Some Limits on Drone Strikes and Commando Raids

President Trump’s top national security advisers have proposed relaxing two rules, the officials said. First, the targets of drone strikes and raids, now generally limited to high-level militants deemed to pose a “continuing and imminent threat” to Americans, would be expanded to include foot-soldier jihadists with no unique skills or leadership roles. And second, such proposed strikes by the military and the C.I.A. will no longer undergo high-level vetting.

cool
posted by theodolite at 5:36 PM on September 21, 2017 [20 favorites]

Weird spike in the US 2020 presidential election betting. A bunch (lot) of money has just gone on Zuckerberg of Facebook fame to win. Anyone know why? Can't see anything in the news.
posted by Wordshore at 5:42 PM on September 21, 2017

I think he did some Facebook Live press conference today explaining the steps Facebook was going to take not to fuck up global politics in the future. Maybe betters thought he seemed more presidential than they expected? I don't know. The whole idea seems monumentally stupid to me, but I would have said that about President Trump, too.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 5:50 PM on September 21, 2017 [10 favorites]

@benjaminwittes (tick tick)
A word on FISA applications in general. I have written about FISA since 1994. Put the myths aside. The process is extremely rigorous. /1/
- If there was FISA surveillance of some kind against Paul Manafort, it was not—I promise you—an exercise in political spying. It was... /2/
- because the FBI developed evidence that persuaded a federal judge that there was probable cause to believe he was functioning... /3/
- ...as an agent of a foreign power. The application would have been thick—many many pages. It would have contained sworn evidence. /4/
- And it would have been personally signed by either the attorney general or the deputy attorney general. It would have been personally.../5/
- reviewed by then FBI Director Jim Comey. And it would have been approved by a member of the FISA Court. All of these people would.../6/
- have acted knowing exactly how politically explosive FISA surveillance against the former campaign manager of a major party candidate... /7/
- would be if it ever became public. Without knowing anything about the specific warrant or the evidence that supported it, I think it's.../8/
- fair to say that even in the context of a rigorous process, this matter would have been handled with extreme care by all involved. /9/
- If a FISA warrant issued here, either as CNN reports or as the WSJ reports (and the latter report seems more credible to me), expect... /10/
- that the evidence underlying it was very strong and that every I was dotted and every T was crossed--many many times. /11/
posted by chris24 at 5:53 PM on September 21, 2017 [44 favorites]

WTF is JCPL?

Thank you.
posted by jgirl at 5:54 PM on September 21, 2017 [1 favorite]

I watched some of the facebook live thing. I can't get why people think Zuckerberg can run for President. He has negative charisma. I feel creepy watching him. Something about how his arms and mouth move but his eyes appear to be frozen in place, almost like a robot.
posted by Glibpaxman at 5:55 PM on September 21, 2017 [18 favorites]

Something about how his arms and mouth move but his eyes appear to be frozen in place, almost like a robot.

Yes ... "almost" ...
posted by Sys Rq at 6:02 PM on September 21, 2017 [23 favorites]

it's like russian roulette but you don't know how many bullets are in the gun! Fun for everyone!

It's like Russian Roulette but all the chambers are full with several bullets left over! And you're like, "at this point, what's the worst that could happen?"
posted by uosuaq at 6:07 PM on September 21, 2017 [2 favorites]

I can't get why people think Zuckerberg can run for President. He has negative charisma. I feel creepy watching him. Something about how his arms and mouth move but his eyes appear to be frozen in place, almost like a robot.

This is EXACTLY what I was telling everyone about Trump before the election. Apparently some fraction of humanity looks at Trump and thinks "Charisma" and I'm worried that that alternate reality works for Zuck too.
posted by mmoncur at 6:09 PM on September 21, 2017 [16 favorites]

I'm worried that that alternate reality works for Zuck too.

ZUCK TRUMP '20

In fact, zuck Trump just in general.
posted by Joey Michaels at 6:11 PM on September 21, 2017 [7 favorites]

Zuck's charisma is the least of it. The current administration is far and away the most incompetent in living memory. While much of that is due to trump being the platonic ideal of "some rich asshole" a lot is also attributable to the fact that he has no experience in government. Why support some rich asshole with no experience just because he is purportedly maybe somewhat liberal? Has anyone said No to mark zuckerberg since he was 20-something? How does that seem like a good idea?
posted by ActingTheGoat at 6:23 PM on September 21, 2017 [32 favorites]

YOU DON'T
GET TO
200 MILLION
VOTES
WITHOUT MAKING
A FEW
ENEMIES
posted by Chrysostom at 6:27 PM on September 21, 2017 [7 favorites]

ELECTIONS NEWS

** AL senate special:

-- Deep dive into the race from Larry Sabato.

-- New Yorker: Lots of GOPers not thrilled with either option.

-- Biden's going to be campaigning for Dem nominee Jones.

** 2018 Senate:

-- 538 takes a look at the Ward/Flake showdown for the GOP nom in AZ.

-- GOP pollster Marketing Resource Group polled the hypothetical MI race between Stabenow and (sigh) Kid Rock, Stabenow 52-34.

** VA gov -- Gillespie going all Willie Horton with super racist ads.

** Odds & ends -- Poll in mega-important special election for WA State Senate 45 (previously) has Dem Dhingra up 55-41.
posted by Chrysostom at 6:53 PM on September 21, 2017 [30 favorites]

Does AL-Sen really need a deep dive? Is there any way Roy Moore isn't the next Senator from Alabama? Hasn't he always been destined to be the Senator from Alabama? It's fucking Alabama.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:00 PM on September 21, 2017 [5 favorites]

I'd certainly give him the edge, but Trump is coming to stump for Strange, and the polls have been tightening to high single digits. A Strange win would be a surprise, but not a shock, is how I view it.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:07 PM on September 21, 2017 [3 favorites]

>Weird spike in the US 2020 presidential election betting. A bunch (lot) of money has just gone on Zuckerberg of Facebook fame to win.

>explaining the steps Facebook was going to take not to fuck up global politics in the future

Sounds like people are betting that Zuck will leverage FB (and other online) shenanigans to skew an election to his favour.

To protect against a thing best, one should understand as much about that thing as possible. FB and Twitter et al. - if there are any competent people there - ought to be masters (and intimately know what does and doesn't work) of political manipulation. Having access to the raw data, and in the future in near real-time, allows them to potentially counter new countermeasures and as the platform, will have the upper hand against anyone trying to use their platform against them.
posted by porpoise at 7:22 PM on September 21, 2017 [5 favorites]

National Treasure Alexandra Petri, WaPo: Sorry I can’t go to your thing. I must call my senator to plead for my life.

An email template from the near future.

I am sorry I cannot make it to your event, but I have to call Congress every eight minutes to plead for my life.

Would I like to go to your wedding/bar mitzvah/coffee date/movie/quiet place where sleep is possible? You bet. But you know that if I don’t call my senator and register my opposition, the new Terrible Health-Care-Ending Bill to Unleash Boils Across the Land, Replace the Rivers with Blood and Slay All the Firstborn will go through, and the time between those bills is getting shorter and shorter.

posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:24 PM on September 21, 2017 [61 favorites]

Zucco's Basilisk: Use Facebook data to pierce the veil of the voting booth by modelling a great number of voters' choices with near-certain confidence. Punish resisters by releasing their data to the public with improprieties and embarrassments highlighted by neural nets of unheralded acuity.

For this strategy to work it cannot be announced by Zuckerberg himself as that would be illegal due to suborning the vote or some such thing. Others would have to independently conceive of the tactic and warn of the possibility...
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 7:25 PM on September 21, 2017

some fraction of humanity looks at Trump and thinks "Charisma"

Watch him saying something you agree with, like when he was beating up on Ted Cruz, and you'll see it.
posted by Coventry at 7:32 PM on September 21, 2017 [3 favorites]

Nevada Gov. Sandoval just blasted Graham-Cassidy-Heller
“Flexibility with reduced funding is a false choice,” Sandoval said in the statement. “I will not pit seniors, children, families, the mentally ill, the critically ill, hospitals, care providers, or any other Nevadan against each other because of cuts to Nevada’s health-care delivery system proposed by the Graham-Cassidy amendment.”

Of all the fucked up calculus behind this revival, Heller's is the next most fucked up behind Cassidy's. The only thing that explains his actions over the last two months is he is utterly bought by mega-donors Adelson and the Koch network. He stepped out of line for a couple days the last time around, then Adelson threatened to cut off funding, and he's been a born again repeal crusader ever since.

These people are soulless fucks, every single last one of them.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:41 PM on September 21, 2017 [44 favorites]

That adelson continues to breathe, unafflicted by biblical plagues, confounds my belief in deities.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 7:49 PM on September 21, 2017 [8 favorites]

The renewed push to repeal Obamacare, and the appearance that Republican leadership and Luther Strange are not useless twerps, might be the reason the Alabama race has been tightening recently.
posted by Glibpaxman at 8:02 PM on September 21, 2017 [1 favorite]

uh you might not want to look to that song for hope for better days

So, between that and "Forever Young", are there any songs from the 80's that aren't esoterically about humanity ending up as a shadow on the wall?

Or is there just going to be a steady flow of pitchblend ducking...?
posted by Buntix at 8:04 PM on September 21, 2017 [5 favorites]

I wish Genesis and Spitting Image would team up again for a Land of Confusion update
posted by fluttering hellfire at 8:09 PM on September 21, 2017 [16 favorites]

Watch him saying something you agree with, like when he was beating up on Ted Cruz, and you'll see it.

Mmmmm....still nope.
posted by Miko at 8:14 PM on September 21, 2017 [13 favorites]

So, between that and "Forever Young", are there any songs from the 80's that aren't esoterically about humanity ending up as a shadow on the wall?

"It's a Mistake" by Men at Work?
"Cities in Dust" by Siouxsie and the Banshees?
"99 Luftballoons"?
"Let's Go All The Way" by Sly Fox?
"Good Day" by The Kinks?

Nope, I guess there aren't any.
posted by mmoncur at 8:17 PM on September 21, 2017 [9 favorites]

>> Watch him saying something you agree with, like when he was beating up on Ted Cruz, and you'll see it.

> Mmmmm....still nope.

yeah, I don't see it either; the guy sets off my "THIS IS A BAD MAN THAT NEEDS FLINGING INTO SUN" reaction, even when he's doing his aggro-stupid routine at someone as unctuous as Cruz.

The man demands attention, certainly; that's what all of his shit-stirring is about, manufacturing situations where everyone has to pay attention to him, without regard for the content of that attention. That's different from charisma.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 8:25 PM on September 21, 2017 [16 favorites]

Looks like Erdogan's got his bodyguards beating up protesters again [twitter]

This was apparently at a Turkish American National Steering Committee thing at the Marriott Marquis in New York.
posted by Buntix at 8:46 PM on September 21, 2017 [14 favorites]

Trump basically gave Erdogan the go-ahead to do exactly that
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:49 PM on September 21, 2017 [15 favorites]

I Melt with You is also nuclear-y.
posted by elsietheeel at 9:45 PM on September 21, 2017 [8 favorites]

Given What We Know Now, Some Of The Steele Dossier’s Claims Aren’t So Crazy

Printing the contents of the dossier has seemed irresponsible in the past; the document is composed of unverified, “raw” intelligence that would have been seen as limited even by Steele, as John Sipher, formerly an analyst with the CIA, recently wrote in an in-depth examination of the dossier’s credibility at Just Security. But a steady drip of new information reinforces more and more of the claims in Steele’s dossier, often in spirit if not in particular.

Here are some of the dossier’s claims that have solidified, at least in part, in light of what we know now.

posted by kirkaracha at 10:17 PM on September 21, 2017 [18 favorites]

Sorry for the nuclear mixtape 80s song derail, as I remain an inverate hoper and had thought--as well as I can these days--that my allusion to compost for a brighter day was snarkedly well-offset by what I'd presumed was the widely-known nuclear-apocalypse theme of the Timbuk3 song. I've occasionally transcribed my thought process decently here and there in these threads, but having to relive the very 80s that caused untold trauma and grief in mine and this country's lives in the first place with...the Joke of the 80s leading an unbelievably even-heavier iteration of that hellstorm, I am not quite as nimble and pithy as I was in days of yore, the happy, free, light times--the crash of the economy in 08, say, or 9-11. The connective thought-lines and rhetoric I see in my mind, it's not making it to print in the same way it might have previously, as the weight and mental maelstrom of this trauma redux we're living through permeates everything I do. My hat is off to our fellow MeFites who are able to make coherent, consistent, literate sense of the ongoing deastation we live through, and those sharing intimate experiences providing the rest of us with momens of transcendent, joyful humanity. I also greatly appreciate all the fuuuuuuuucks.

've had 80s on the brain because, well, with Clinton and then Obama, I was able to push down and forget about a terrible, terrible day in fourth grade coming home on the bus, the one in 1980 with every. single. child. on the bus chanting maniacally REAGAN REAGAN REAGAN REAGAN!! Kindergartners. 2nd graders. 5th graders. All of them but me. I felt like an alien at a Nazi rally, no lie, and it felt for me like the moment America turned its back on a dime utterly on all the positive beautiful inclusive things it had spent the past 5/50 years indoctrinating me/itself/the world in. Fuck freedom for all, fuck equality among all people, fuck looking out for the poor and disenfranchised, fuck give me your hungry your tired, fuck everything not a rich white violent man. It was clear, and it was heartbreaking. And the whole 80s was just this, worse and worse, every day.

We got the man from Hope, finally, but the Reaganites tore that down and restored dignity to the office and nation with Supreme Court ratfucking. We got Obama, eventually, but that brought everyone's dead Uncle John Birch back to life long enough to vote for making America great again, compliments of their Uncle Vlad.

So these few songs from the 80s that spoke to the truth and the horror occurring back then when we were all happily chanting REAGAN REAGAN and ignoring the utter devastation around us have been really poignant to me lately, both for their bravery and their foresight. Another Timbuk3 song, "Assholes on Parade", it blows my mind that that song was written and recorded in the 80s, it's perfectly apropos for 2017. Music was the one thing that got me through the explosion of my childhood American dream, and so it's been continuing to color all my thoughts about our ongoing struggle 2.0 (3.0? 4.0? When will we learn.0?)

Again, sorry for the 80s apocarock derail. I appreciate everything you folks are, and everything you do and say, and thank you for this space. I love you, unceasingly.

Mods please feel free to axe for off-topic, for derail, for schmoop, for whatever reason you feel like. You're the best!
posted by riverlife at 11:06 PM on September 21, 2017 [37 favorites]

I've reached a new level of anger since reading that WP story that concludes that it was donor pressure during the last August recess that has led to this most recent travesty.

I always thought that super rich dudes had a basic sense of economics. As in knowing, 'massively fucking with health care will fuck up your labor force and destabilize the economy greatly.' Oh well. Fuck you, super rich dudes.
posted by angrycat at 12:17 AM on September 22, 2017 [38 favorites]

Honestly, the super-rich probably are so wealthy they don't need workers any longer. I honestly think they see a slavery/indentured servitude/serf-vassal future, and it's the only thing that puts any lead in their pencil any longer.
posted by maxwelton at 12:31 AM on September 22, 2017 [13 favorites]

National Treasure Alexandra Petri, WaPo: Sorry I can’t go to your thing. I must call my senator to plead for my life.

I rather liked her own tweet that summarized the same overall point:

battlestar galactica doomsday clock that resets every 33 minutes but for needing to call your senator about a healthcare bill

I mean, if nothing else, the dread is comparable.
posted by dhartung at 1:53 AM on September 22, 2017 [31 favorites]

You know we argue about "framing" and messaging? I got a good one. I was arguing with strangers on Facebook, as you do, and thinking about how my Congressman must see the government doing basically anything at all as socialism, because it is all paid for by taxes, coerced with the threat of jail. And I realized...

I am getting impatient with "But I don't WANNA pay taxes. It's not FAIR. You can't MAKE ME," whining whenever anyone suggests the government do anything. To me it sounds just like my kids whining about not wanting to do chores. Time to grow up and take responsibility! If you don't do your share of the chores, somebody else just ends up having to do them. If you won't pay your share of the cost of maintaining civilization, then you are just putting that burden onto others. "Sure, I want people to be healthy, as long as I don't have to pay for it" is the same as "Sure, I want clean dishes, as long as I don't have to wash them." It doesn't work that way, buddy. Now grow up and do your chores and pay your taxes.

... and that's what I said to the random Republican in the Wall Street Journal facebook comments (also "If you guys want to live in some third world country where the sick and disabled beg and die in the streets, you are welcome to move to one. I'm sure the taxes will be low")

But I think it is a line of argument that could work very well in all kinds of political debates. When they talk about us wanting "free stuff" and not wanting to "take personal responsibility" we can tell them we ARE the responsible ones, the grown ups who contribute to society, who do our chores, pay our taxes, and don't try to push the burden off onto someone else all the time.
posted by OnceUponATime at 1:59 AM on September 22, 2017 [87 favorites]

You know, Baltar's house by the lake has been on my mind. No idea why. Just a feeling of, 'it would be cool to be there.' So, an explanation for that, perhaps.
posted by angrycat at 2:13 AM on September 22, 2017 [4 favorites]

How much do you wanna bet the AF1 phone records are just Trump continuously calling Domino's after they refuse to deliver to an airplane
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 2:32 AM on September 22, 2017 [19 favorites]

and it's the only thing that puts any lead in their pencil any longer.
post

It's the hyper-rich. They just get the sads when their vast pools of money keeps making money, but at a slightly slower rate.

Or rather they resent anything that's a threat to their identity and privilege, like being forced to pay taxes on their vast pools of money.
posted by sebastienbailard at 3:41 AM on September 22, 2017 [2 favorites]

OnceUponATime thats pretty much verbatim the argument that I've been using with people too. Although the way I put it is "Because I'm not a fucking freeloader like these whiny Republicans who always want to get something for nothing. Republicans want good schools, good roads, safe water to drink, safe neighborhoods, but they don't want to fucking pay for any of it."
posted by supercrayon at 4:14 AM on September 22, 2017 [31 favorites]

From the 538 analysis of NYT polling misuse (from wayyy upthread, sorry):

the Comey letter made Clinton much more vulnerable, roughly doubling Trump’s probability of winning.

Which means we need to adjust the maths to be (JCPL ^ ComLet / Voteday-1) * WTF
posted by petebest at 5:12 AM on September 22, 2017 [2 favorites]

Merkelism vs. Trumpism (NYTimes OpEd):

Boil this down to its essence, and Trumpism states: When you lose, I win. Being strong equals being right. And if you want to advance your own interests, it is legitimate to inflict damage on others.

This is not a path that Germany can follow, and it is not a path that Germany can let its European neighbors follow, either. If Trumpism had been applied to Germany in 1945, my country would have become a province of the Soviet Union, and Western Germans would never have bought a pair of Levi’s or a bottle of Coke, let alone the idea of America as a beacon of freedom. If Mr. Trump was right and internationalism led to economic disaster, Germany should have one of the highest unemployment rates in the world. In fact, it has one of the lowest.

posted by mumimor at 5:14 AM on September 22, 2017 [24 favorites]

DACA Deadline Alert: USCIS will continue to accept and process RENEWAL applications until October 5, 2017 from applicants whose DACA expires between September 5, 2017 and March 5, 2018.

If you know any DACA recipients in LA, Public Council is offering free renewal workshops. They are also offering scholorships to cover the filing fee, but read the fine print for more details on that.

Santa Monica College is offering their own free workshops and scholarships for students and staff, as well as Santa Monica residents. If you are not a student or staff member at SMC, write "resident" in the Other field on the appointment form.
posted by Room 641-A at 5:18 AM on September 22, 2017 [7 favorites]

All I want Sanders to do is every time Graham says "cuz freedom!" is ask if in the interest of freedom, choice and states rights will they let every state have the option they're giving Alaska and let states choose either block grants or continuing under the current system.

I just faxed Senator Young and told him that his solid "Yes" vote makes him a fool (in many ways, of course), because if he were playing coy he could bring some goodies home for Indiana too, but noooooo. I urged him to signal "doubts" about the bill in order to entice the leadership to add inducements for Indiana as well.

Hopefully if this approach works, so many Senators demanding their own pork will cast enough doubt on the passage that the whole effort will fail.
posted by Gelatin at 5:38 AM on September 22, 2017 [22 favorites]

What you have, from this government and all conservative governments, is a failure to care about the future, even future riches. They don't give a shit if doing something now means an economic catastrophe down the line as long as that thing makes them (or "saves" them) more money in the immediate.

It's why they defund food assistance, which is extra super mega cheap comparatively, even though they know it'll significantly and adversely affect the workforce in a decade or two.

It's why they defund environmental protections, even though they all know a catastrophically expensive environmental crisis is coming.

It's why they defund healthcare, which is a HUGE money saver in the long term, because they don't mind that this country is hurtling towards bankruptcy because of the LACK of a social safety net. Fewer investments, fewer innovations, fewer entrepreneurs, fewer healthy people around at all.

They know all this. They don't give a shit. THEY DON'T GIVE A SHIT AS LONG AS IT MAKES THEM A BUCK TODAY. They're spending our future to line the pockets of their present.
posted by lydhre at 5:42 AM on September 22, 2017 [47 favorites]

Why won't some group or other doxx Graham-Cassidy-Heller's emails from the Cock Brothers / Adelson?

"Lindsey - create a bill that screws the poor into the ground or no money for you! Love, Shel"

that kind of thing. Where are all the good hackers? This would be really simple: On Today's Very Special Scoop O'Clock: Cassidy's love affair with Health lobbyist money exposed: 'Gimme a million and I'll write whatever bill you want', emails Cassidy

and so on.
posted by petebest at 5:50 AM on September 22, 2017

well, d'oh: Climate deniers want to protect the status quo that made them rich John Gibbons at the Guardian

From my vantage point outside the glass doors, the sea of grey hair and balding pates had the appearance of a golf society event or an active retirement group. Instead, it was the inaugural meeting of Ireland’s first climate denial group, the self-styled Irish Climate Science Forum (ICSF) in Dublin in May. All media were barred from attending.

Its guest speaker was the retired physicist and noted US climate contrarian, Richard Lindzen. His jeremiad against the “narrative of hysteria” on climate change was lapped up by an audience largely composed of male engineers and meteorologists – mostly retired. This demographic profile of attendees at climate denier meetings has been replicated in London, Washington and elsewhere.

How many people in the room had children or indeed grandchildren, I wondered. Could an audience of experienced, intelligent people really be this blithely indifferent to the devastating impacts that unmitigated climate change will wreak on the world their progeny must inhabit? These same ageing contrarians doubtless insure their homes, put on their seatbelts, check smoke alarms and fret about cholesterol levels.

posted by mumimor at 6:40 AM on September 22, 2017 [10 favorites]

Climate deniers want to protect the status quo that made them rich

@AlexSteffen
What Houston shows us, yet again, is that we live in a world of predatory delay. Predatory delay is the blocking or slowing of needed change, in order to make money off unsustainable, unjust systems in the meantime. For delay to be truly predatory, those engaged in it need to know two things: That they're hurting others and that there are other options. When folks know they're unnecessarily causing damage, they have a moral choice to make: Do they find another way to make money—or dig in? A generation has failed this moral test. Old people have mostly chosen to dig in their heels—and lie to themselves about what they're doing. Whether we're talking about the housing crisis, the climate crisis, the defense of autodependence or the impoverishment of America's kids, it's all one big dynamic. Older people getting rich—unprecedentedly rich—by dismissing their obligations to society & young people's future. And in all of these cases, the desire to not be called out on their predatory behavior has lead to the embrace of alternative facts. "Climate science isn't certain." "Building housing doesn't make housing more accessible." "Cars are here to stay." "I pay too many taxes." The result has been what we all can see: A nation whose neglected systems are coming unglued at the seams as it heads into planetary crisis.

Faced with that crisis, we hear the chorus of profitable inaction: gradualism, incrementalism and a "realism" that ignores physical reality. But actual based-in-reality realism is our status quo breeds catastrophes, and we need to remake the systems around us at breakneck speed. We know the costs of delay are already staggering—but also that the potential for sustainable and widely shared prosperity is enormous. We also know that we're surrounded by steepening problems: Every day, our challenges become increasingly harder to solve—speed is everything. We are asked constantly to cheerily ignore the lies that make delaying change possible, in the name of respecting differences of opinion. We're told that change must prove itself before we undertake it, mindful of real estate profits, coal jobs, easy commutes, cushy retirements. Well, pardon me, but fuck that. All of it.

When the status quo is both destructive and deceptive, those working to create needed change owe those benefiting from delay exactly nothing. There is no moral equivalence in the choice of disruptive rapid action and comfortable delay followed by disaster. Those of us who are ready to create a sustainable, equitable future have the wildest permission imaginable to deliver it however we can. The time has long passed when we should presume good faith and honest intentions from those who embrace lies to perpetuate predatory delay. If this crazy year offers us any gift, it's a note of clarity. It's out of clarity that speed emerges. It's speed that is our best hope. We know that when the flood waters in Houston recede, that same chorus will start up again, that same bullshit will spin back up. Whether we accept it—whether we treat predatory delay as normal behavior or call it out and demand bold, rapid change instead—is up to us. All meaningful sustainability work is now disruptive. Calling for disruptive changes is not radical, but deeply sane. If you have a stage from which to speak, this is the time to stand up for the need to act boldly and act fast. Folks need to hear you. More on predatory delay in this short piece: Predatory Delay and the Rights of Future Generations
posted by chris24 at 6:53 AM on September 22, 2017 [96 favorites]

I wish Genesis and Spitting Image would team up again for a Land of Confusion update

Reference: Genesis' Land of Confusion music video, done by Spitting Image
posted by ZeusHumms at 7:03 AM on September 22, 2017 [3 favorites]

"Predatory delay" is a great crystallization of a concept - I hope it gets lots of traction.

One thing I've noticed in myself: reluctance to admit that reactionary climate movements (and some but not all other reactionary movements) are dominated by the old, because it's so depressing to have to accept what this says about how humans tend to think. There's so much hostility to old people in mainstream society - I see this around me every day, and in particular with what my parents have to deal with - that it's hard for me to pair this with accepting that there are certain pathological ideologies which are dominated by older people. (Also, of course, most of the older people that I know personally are left-leaning and have no doubts about climate change or reluctance to pay taxes, even if they're not totally on the "gay space communism" side.)

Also, it's depressing because it's not like I'm getting any younger, and it worries me that I'll end up having terrible ideas because of cultural dynamics that happen in aging groups.
posted by Frowner at 7:07 AM on September 22, 2017 [32 favorites]

So, between that and "Forever Young", are there any songs from the 80's that aren't esoterically about humanity ending up as a shadow on the wall?

"It's a Mistake" by Men at Work?
"Cities in Dust" by Siouxsie and the Banshees?
"99 Luftballoons"?
"Let's Go All The Way" by Sly Fox?
"Good Day" by The Kinks?

Nope, I guess there aren't any.

Let me try:

"Don't Worry, Be Happy" by Bobby McFerrin
"Every Rose Has Its Thorn" by Poison
"Kokomo" by the Beach Boys

Nope.
posted by ZeusHumms at 7:09 AM on September 22, 2017 [11 favorites]

Steve Bannon Splits From Trump: Hilarity Ensues. The Alabama Senate race may become a proxy for a nationwide fracturing of the Republican Party

I guess I'm glad people find it hi-larious that the Alabama Republican Senate race is a choice between a corrupt former attorney general who was gifted his Senate seat by a differently-corrupt governor on the one hand and a theocrat who was fired twice from being a judge because he finds national laws and even constitutional amendments to be more akin to suggestions on the other. I might even be able to do the same if I and a tremendous number of my friends weren't getting to live with the consequences.

Surely this will tear the national Republican party apart instead of continuing to move the Overton window at such speed that the redshift is bathing the entire nation in its glow.
posted by sgranade at 7:11 AM on September 22, 2017 [32 favorites]

John Sipher, formerly an analyst with the CIA
Oh come on 2017 writers, now you're just taking the piss
posted by glasseyes at 7:27 AM on September 22, 2017 [54 favorites]

Be thankful it isn't his brother Lou.
posted by Strange Interlude at 7:33 AM on September 22, 2017 [51 favorites]

Of all the fucked up calculus behind this revival, Heller's is the next most fucked up behind Cassidy's. The only thing that explains his actions over the last two months is he is utterly bought by mega-donors Adelson and the Koch network. He stepped out of line for a couple days the last time around, then Adelson threatened to cut off funding, and he's been a born again repeal crusader ever since.

Remember, much of the basis for John Roberts torpedoing campaign finance laws in Citizens United was that contributions couldn't possibly be perceived as a corrupt quid pro quo.
posted by Gelatin at 7:47 AM on September 22, 2017 [17 favorites]

Half-listened to an NPR story about the Alabama Senate race. One interviewee put it best as voting for the lesser of two evils.
posted by ZeusHumms at 7:48 AM on September 22, 2017 [1 favorite]

Henry Giroux, BillMoyers.com: Donald Trump’s Addiction to Violence

The president has normalized violence by emboldening the idea that it is the only viable political response to social problems.
...
What Wendy Brown calls Trump’s “apocalyptic populism” has reinforced a savage form of neoliberalism that, as Pope Francis has pointed out, produces an economy that kills. Trump’s militarized disregard for human life is evident in a range of policies that extend from withdrawing from the Paris Agreement on climate change and slashing jobs at the Environmental Protection Agency to gutting teen pregnancy prevention programs and ending funds to fight white supremacy and other hate-producing, right-wing groups.
[ ]
At the same time, Trump has called for a $52 billion increase in the military budget while arguing for a revised health care bill being sponsored by Sens. Bill Cassidy (R-LA) and Lindsey Graham (R-SC) that would cut $4 trillion in health care over 20 years while allowing 32 million to lose health coverage by 2027.
[ ]
These figures speak clearly to Trump’s passion for violence, but his embrace of this form of domestic terrorism cannot be captured fully in critical commentaries about his ruthless domestic and foreign policies. The real measure of such policies must begin as Brad Evans argues in “the raw realities of suffering” and the terrible price many young, old and vulnerable populations pay with their lives.

posted by ZeusHumms at 7:52 AM on September 22, 2017 [13 favorites]

David Anderson, Balloon Juice: The 2026 CBO landmine in Cassidy-Graham

Presumably, Congress would not want to throw millions of more people off their insurance (yes, that is a significant assumption) so they would want to re-appropriate the block grants. However under Congressional procedures, discretionary spending increases above the baseline should be off-set with “pay-fors” which are either higher taxes or reductions in other spending. If the spending and the taxes both sunset in 2026, Congress could pass a bill saying “Keep on doing what we’ve been doing on taxes and spending” and have the new block grant for another 10 years be off-set by business as usual.

However that is not how the bill is set up. The taxes continue into the future so they are already incorporated into the baseline. The individual insurance block grants are not in the baseline so they need to be offset. And that produces conservative leverage points for massive cuts to either the block grant or other discretionary spending. The trade-off that Cassidy-Graham is trying to set up is “Health Insurance OR (CHIP and SNAP and Education and FBI and IRS and LIHEAP) ”

If Democrats control both chambers, the work-around is to build their budgets on “current policy” instead of the more typical “current law” baseline. If there is at least one chamber controlled by Republicans, things get ugly.

posted by tonycpsu at 7:53 AM on September 22, 2017 [18 favorites]

Extra from Henry Giroux' essay:

What is different about Trump is that he relishes in the use of violence and warmongering brutality to inflict humiliation and pain on people; he pulls the curtains away from a systemic culture of cruelty, a racially inflected mass incarceration state, and in doing so refuses to hide his own sadistic investment in violence as a source of pleasure. Jeffrey St. Clair has argued that Trump is the great reveller who pulls back “the curtains on the cesspool of American politics for the inspection of all but the most timid” while going further by insisting that Trump is the bully-in-chief, a sadistic troll who has pushed the country — without any sense of ethical and social responsibility — deep into the abyss of authoritarianism and a culture of violence and cruelty that is as unchecked as it is poisonous and dangerous to human life and democracy itself.

posted by ZeusHumms at 7:53 AM on September 22, 2017 [18 favorites]

The time has long passed when we should presume good faith and honest intentions from those who embrace lies to perpetuate predatory delay.

QFT.
posted by Gelatin at 8:16 AM on September 22, 2017 [31 favorites]

I've been feeling hopeless about the political situation lately, and so have others in my social group, I've expressed that hopelessness here and other places.

But I'm wrong to have done so.

Despair is a weapon of the enemy. We're in a tough place, but it's a better place than our intellectual and moral ancestors were back when they were fighting for Civil Rights.

Not to diminish our own difficulties, but they started from a worse position than we are in, and fought successfully. We must not shame our ancestors by succumbing to hopelessness and doing less than they did when we start from a more powerful position.

We can, and must, win.

But we also must never again commit the sin of complacency, and I believe that is one of our greatest weaknesses. We know we are right, we know we stand for justice, and that has the perverse effect of weakening us. We allowed ourselves to fall into the comforting delusion of believing that MLK was right when he said that the moral arc of the universe is long but it bends towards justice.

It does not. The moral arc of the universe must be continuously bent towards justice by the often thankless effort of people like you and me. Left to its own devices the moral arc of the universe will drift towards injustice.

The base state of the universe is cruel indifference and the autocratic domination of the weak by the strong. The base state of the universe is racism, homophobia, misogyny, and bigotry of every variety. The base state of the universe is ignorance and a lifetime spent in a desperate scramble to eek out the most miserable and meager sort of skin of your teeth survival.

Justice, peace, prosperity, all are aberrations, deviations from a norm of cruelty, war, and want, and we maintain that aberrant but desirable state only through tireless, ceaseless, effort.

We got complacent. We got lazy. We believed that the bad things could never happen to us because it just isn't allowed. We believed that institutional norms were sufficient. That presidents would be restrained from abusing the office because that sort of behavior just wasn't done. We let our cries for justice and reform be muffled by demands of civility and bipartisanship and friendly comity with the forces of evil and oppression.

My mother was beaten by the police when she protested an unjust and inhumane war in the 1960's, it did not stop her and she went back to the protest as soon as she was healed. My mother in law quietly, but forcefully, fought against segregation by offering up her daughter to be the first black girl to attend her school when she was only six, an act of bravery and risk of a loved one I stand awed and humbled by.

Don't get hopeless. Get mad.

Now, more than ever, is the time to charge into battle like a rabid wolverine. Every battle we fight, even if we can't win it, is an opportunity to inflict the maximum harm on the enemy and by that demoralize them. We may not be able to win the big fights, but we can bring them low through thousands of small hurts. We can bleed their support person by person. We can tie them in knots in the legal system.

And we must never forget that they're weaker than they pretend to be. The Republican party is riven by possibly irreconcilable differences. We can force those gaps wider, splinter their vaunted unity, and then crush them in detail.

Our victory is anything but guaranteed. The base state of the universe is injustice, cruelty, and tyranny. Those working for evil goals have the easier job and they always will. But there's nobility in fighting against hopeless odds, and the odds against us aren't entirely hopeless.

Here in America their greatest tool, gerrymandering, is also a source of weakness. A deeply gerrymandered system is strong but brittle. By spreading themselves so thin they're vulnerable to landslide losses if we can change election results by "only" ten points. That's a difficult task, but not impossible, and if we can achieve it then we can shatter their hold on a great many states, reverse some longer term trends, and impose laws that make gerrymandering much more difficult.

It will require long, thankless, work, and a willingness to be utterly and completely ruthless if we do get power.

That last was our greatest failure in 2008. We won, but we permitted our power to be sapped, our victory to be blunted, by a combination of institutional inertia and an otherwise laudable desire to be gracious in victory.

We must recognize that grace in victory is not a virtue. If we do manage to pull out a victory we must use the power we get to its utmost and crush the enemy without hesitation or mercy. Single Payer. Universal basic income. 90% top marginal tax rates. Brutal and draconian punishment of tax evasion. Enormous estate taxes. A purge of the judicial system. Mandatory transparency for corporations and the wealthy. A federal law prohibiting gerrymandering at every level. Statehood for Puerto Rico and DC. Outlawing new gas cars by 2025. Environmental regulations well beyond what Paris calls for. We must hold nothing back and get in all the change we can because we have no idea how long our tenuous grasp on power will last.

More important, we must recognize that civility, propriety, and a general respect for the responsibilities of the office will not, in fact, hold back future Republican Presidents, and after we abuse the power of the office ourselves to undo the harm wrought by Trump we must strip the Presidency of most of its power and make the office subservient to the law, bind the President with laws explicitly forbidding all the things we'd so naively assumed the President would always be to honorable to try. And we must make the enforcement of those laws independent of Congress so that never again can a Republican Congress shield a dishonorable and vile Republican President.

We must abandon forever the comforting illusion that we can afford to be merciful towards our defeated enemies. We must abandon despair, fight with our every resource, and if we manage to win we must always exploit that victory to the utmost. No compromise. No bipartisanship. No "respect" for the beliefs of the foe.
posted by sotonohito at 8:32 AM on September 22, 2017 [100 favorites]

Not that I disagree, sonohito, but where are we going to find a national party to do that? The 2018 elections are barely 12 months out. 6 months to the filing deadline.
posted by petebest at 8:46 AM on September 22, 2017 [2 favorites]

He shakes my nerves and he rattles my brain
Too much Trump drive a man insane
He broke my will
We'll all get killed
Goodness gracious great balls of fire
posted by kirkaracha at 8:46 AM on September 22, 2017 [5 favorites]

where are we going to find a national party to do that?

It's OUR job, not the job of a party!

The DNC is not a branch of government. It has no power to make law or policy. It is just a tool for fundraising and organizing and marketing. If you don't like it, there are LOTS of other tools out there now. Or you and your friends can write postcards and drive people to the polls to support candidates you like, and raise money to put up a billboard, all on your own. Join whatever organization you like, or start your own, but don't wait for the cavalry to come, in the form of a national political party... WE are the cavalry. We are the ones who have to save the day.
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:51 AM on September 22, 2017 [43 favorites]

I realize we all read a lot more national news than local news these days, but our elections are not national, they are local. You can't vote for "The Democrats" for anything. You can only vote for the individual candidate on your local ballot. And you have a lot of power in your own district to make sure a candidate you like appears on that ballot. And if you really can't stand whoever wins the Democratic primary in your district, find another district where a candidate you do like is on the ballot, and support them. You don't need the DNC to do this stuff.
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:56 AM on September 22, 2017 [19 favorites]

Despair is a weapon of the enemy. We're in a tough place, but it's a better place than our intellectual and moral ancestors were back when they were fighting for Civil Rights.

Not only that, with all of these moves, baffling as they are in their seeming success right now, conservatism reveals its fundamental weaknesses.

Republicans would not need to rely on gerrymandering and vote suppression if they believed their platform is popular. That they obviously do is an admission that they know their positions are not popular.

Conservatives would not need to rely on lies and bad faith if they believed their positions are honest and intellectually consistent. Republicans ~~may be~~ are able to bamboozle NPR into pretending they have legitimate points, but their reliance on obvious lies and bad faith reveals the intellectual and moral bankruptcy of their position.

After years of dog whistles and coded language, Republicans would not need to overtly ally with racists and bigots if they didn't know they're on the losing end of a demographic trend and they desperately need their base -- the racist base that they've spent decades denying they rely upon -- to turn out. Republicans are willing to write off the votes of nonwhite people entirely in order to gin up enough fear and loathing to squeak by in the next electoral cycle.

And most importantly, Republicans would not need to rely on the freakin' Russians to tip the scales in their favor if they didn't know that they literally have nothing else -- that only overt (well, covert) treason can capture the White house.

A minority of Americans used a biased and unfair system to put their hugely erroneous choice in the presidency, and that's a horrible and sobering thought. But unlike the miserable failure of George W. Bush, no amount of "rebranding" will save conservatism's reputation after this time. And if Democrats recapture even one branch of government or the White house ever again, the facts will come out, and the electorate, I predict, will be in no mood at all to "just move forward" and "look ahead, not behind."

Republicans cheat, because they're losers, and they know that's the only way -- the only way -- they can win.
posted by Gelatin at 9:02 AM on September 22, 2017 [53 favorites]

Nancy Cook, Politico: Trump aides begin looking for the exits

After a wave of high-profile White House departures this summer, staffers who remained are reaching out to headhunters to discuss their next moves.
...
“There will be an exodus from this administration in January,” said one Republican lobbyist, who alone has heard from five officials looking for new gigs. “Everyone says, ‘I just need to stay for one year.’ If you leave before a year, it looks like you are acknowledging that you made a mistake.”

posted by ZeusHumms at 9:03 AM on September 22, 2017 [24 favorites]

Trump aides begin looking for the exits

Gangplanks for all!
posted by lydhre at 9:06 AM on September 22, 2017 [21 favorites]

Rachana Pradhan and Dan Diamond (Josh Dawsey and Josh Gerstein contributing), Politico:

Price traveled by private plane at least 24 times

Health and Human Services Secretary Tom Price has taken at least on private charter planes at taxpayers’ expense since early May, according to people with knowledge of his travel plans and a review of HHS documents.

The frequency of the trips underscores how private travel has become the norm — rather than the exception — for the Georgia Republican during his tenure atop the federal health agency, which began in February. The cost of the trips identified by POLITICO exceeds $300,000, according to a review of federal contracts and similar trip itineraries.

I wonder how much more there is to this story.
posted by ZeusHumms at 9:09 AM on September 22, 2017 [24 favorites]

petebest As others have noted, we must first invade and conquer the Democratic Party. We've been complaisant there too. We've allowed ourselves to get irritated with the Democrats, but to let the Party just sort of drift along by itself.

Google "[insert your county here] Democratic Party" and start attending meetings. Become a dues paying member. Vote in the internal Party elections. Become a precinct chair if there isn't one for your precinct. Get your fellow lefty radical friends to do the same.

In 2018 we'll be going with the Democrats we have, not necessarily the Democrats we want. Fight like hell to get them elected even if they suck, because we can build off of that into true victory.

Get as active as you possibly can in local and state politics. State especially, that's where gerrymandering happens, and that's what we have to win first before we can pass laws against gerrymandering.

In 2020 we'll have a better Democratic Party if we fight for it.

It's undeniable that the Democrats, as they currently exist, are basically worthless. The Party is dominated by milquetoast cowards who worship centrism and would never dream of ramming home a victory if they won. But once htey've won we can pressure them. The Republicans will never, ever, do what we want. The most mild mannered, milquetoast, Democrats can be induced to do the right thing with enough pressure. More important, we can primary them, we can replace them, and we can build a better party.

We're in a catastrophe now. We have to survive the catastrophe with absolutely anything we can. During this crisis period, and after, we'll be working to make the Democrats a political party worthy of the name. But we can't say "well, the Democrats aren't perfect yet, so we can't win". No, we win despite their cowardice and centrism, and we drag the decent ones to the left with us while we replace the ones who won't cooperate.

But all that has to happen at the local, county, level. That's where the Democratic Party actually exists. Unless and until we take the Party over at the county Party level we'll never be able to make the national Party do what we want.
posted by sotonohito at 9:11 AM on September 22, 2017 [37 favorites]

If you leave before a year, it looks like you are acknowledging that you made a mistake.

And THAT is for losers, clearly.
posted by Rykey at 9:15 AM on September 22, 2017 [3 favorites]

Here are a couple of Josh Marshall (TPM) pieces related to Paul Manafort. If you aren't familiar with Manafort's pre-2016 career, I'd highly recommend taking a peak at his Wikipedia entry, because as part of the lobbying firm Black, Manafort, Stone, and Kelly, he's worked with some of the world's most odious autocrats, including Ferdinand Marcos and Mobutu Sese Seko. Moreover, Manafort is not some "outsider" to US Republican politics. He wrangled delegates for Gerald Ford in 1976, was part of Reagan's campaign in 1980, advised H. W. Bush in 1988's campaign, and was Bob Dole's campaign manager in 1996.

How Did Trump Find Manafort In the First Place?

Reading this it’s hard for me to believe we’re getting the full or the real picture of what happened here. There was apparently a lot of gravity pulling Trump and Manafort together. Or rather, there was some strong force getting Manafort into Trump’s orbit, even though Manafort was maybe the 900th person on the list probably anyone would have thought of for Trump to hire. Did [Thomas] Barrack seek out Manafort or vice versa? Was the idea always that Manafort should go to work for Trump or that he was just providing some advice and guidance that Barrack could convey?

What seems clear is that Manafort really wanted to work for Trump – badly wanted to work for him. Just why he wanted is another issue. My question is, what was Barrack’s real role here? Assuming Manafort wanted to connect with Trump, did Manafort just very effectively use Barrack to make contact? I don’t think – or have no reason to think – that Barrack himself had some nefarious motive for bringing Manafort to Trump. But given the fact that Manafort’s motives for wanting to work for Trump are very much in question, I think we need to know a lot more than this terse explanation about what role he played and just what happened.

One interesting connection to Donald Trump that Josh did not mention was through the Stone in Black, Manafort, Stone, and Kelly. That Stone is Roger J. Stone, perhaps the biggest lying political ratfucker alive today. Stone, a disgraceful conspiracy theorist, has apparently had a long relationship with Donald Trump. Stone also claimed to have been in contact with Julian Assange and Guccifer 2.0. I think we need to understand what role Roger Stone played in connecting Donald Trump and Paul Manafort, such that Manafort would work for free on the campaign.

Manafort’s Email Came Days Before the Convention Shenanigans

Manafort has a long and complicated business relationship with Deripaska (as Seinfeld would say, not that there’s anything wrong with that). But the date of this email is interesting. Deripaska is reputed to be very close to Russian President Vladimir Putin. A US diplomatic cable which Chelsea Manning gave to Wikileaks described him in 2006 as “among the 2-3 oligarchs Putin turns to on a regular basis.” The date of the email [apparently offering to brief Oleg Deripaska on the campaign] is July 7th 2016. That’s just four days before the Trump campaign intervened to soften the language of the GOP platform about providing lethal military assistance to Ukraine – an oddity that has never been fully explained or really explained in any clear way. [...]

That gets us to an important way to think about how this whole drama may have really unfolded. The emails reviewed by the Post strongly suggest that Manafort saw his top perch in the Trump campaign as a way to make money – either to drum up new business in what used to be the USSR or to collect on debts he thought various ex-clients owed him. The Post referenced one email where Manafort asked his colleague “How do we use [this] to get whole?” That is to say, how do we capitalize on this new-found opportunity to get financially sound again, to make a bunch of money?

I don’t think we should dismiss the possibility that Manafort didn’t need direction. Or to put it another way, Manafort – sensing an opportunity for the big, big money – might have found opportunities to be helpful or clearly friendly [to Russian state interests] as a way to facilitate that expressed desire to cash in on Trump. This seems not only possible but quite likely.

The feds have had their eyes on Manafort for years, just in time for him to turn up in the campaign of guy who has all sorts of ties to the shady business of post-Soviet states. It just boggles the mind that Trump, surrounded by Manafort, Stone, Sater, Cohen, Page, and Flynn, each with greater or lesser ties to Putin's kleptocracy, would himself have been ignorant of what was going on. I'm not even considering the strange deals with the Agalarovs, the shady hotel deal in Azerbaijan, Jared Kushner's attempt to evade federal surveillance of Russian officials, Jeff Sessions' undisclosed meetings with Russian officials, or Session's chief-of-staff Rick Dearborn sending an email suggesting that Putin wanted to meet with Trump campaign officials. There's just too much for me to find it credible that Trump did not have at least some inkling that Putin was trying help him.

This situation is what collusion looks like.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:27 AM on September 22, 2017 [67 favorites]

The drum I'm beating is basically just "do more".

Whatever you've been doing in the past wasn't enough and I'm just asking everyone to do a little more.

If you don't normally vote, vote in every election that you can.

If you normally vote, put more effort into really doing some research so you know who you're voting for in every office and why.

If you normally do that, call your reps and tell them what you think.

If you do that already, do it more and more forcefully.

If you already do that, run for office or get more involved in your local party or some other action group.

And so on until you're running for president, I guess.

It doesn't really matter what it is, you're used to whatever political activity you already do, you can do a little more now, we need you to. When you get used to whatever new thing you're started doing, consider doing a little more.

Not much, just a little more. If we all do a little more, a LOT more gets done.
posted by VTX at 9:30 AM on September 22, 2017 [35 favorites]

Thanks y'all for reminding me that I needed to donate and get on the mailing list for the independent candidate for District Judge. He ran in the primary as a Dem but didn't get endorsed by the local Party and thus lost to a guy who is the damn brother of the damn State Rep who is a damn RINO idiot and who also has a cousin(?) in the State Assembly. It's Costas all way down in Western PA politics.

But this young guy is awesome, progressive, committed to restorative justice and stopping mass incarceration, qualified and I am seeing his yard signs pop up all over the place, which is wonderful to see. I just threw him $50 and requested a yard sign (much more impactful in low-profile local races where name recognition is everything).

I am hoping that getting him elected to this judge slot will be the beginning of a long, successful career in local, state and national politics for this kid.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:35 AM on September 22, 2017 [13 favorites]

If you normally vote, put more effort into really doing some research so you know who you're voting for in every office and why.

If you normally do that, call your reps and tell them what you think.

I live in Indiana, and long in the past I used to vote Republican if I liked the candidate. I've voted for Dick Lugar, for example, and shaken the man's hand.

But long before Trump's election, the depravity of the Republican Party has caused me to deny them my vote in perpetuity until such time as they are prepared to share power in good faith, whether as a majority or minority party. All the research I need to vote against someone is an (R) by their name. And I try to make clear when and where I can that the Republican Party's behavior is costing them votes -- though, at this point, probably not a gettable vote any more anyway.
posted by Gelatin at 9:58 AM on September 22, 2017 [5 favorites]

Trump administration readies new order to replace travel ban: WSJ [Reuters link]

The Trump administration is preparing to replace its controversial travel ban with a new order tailored on a country-by-country basis but affecting slightly more than the six nations now targeted, the Wall Street Journal said on Friday.

The new rules would not have a stated end date, with countries facing the potential of being added or removed from the list at any time, according to the Journal, which cited people familiar with the process. [...]

The Journal’s report said it was not immediately clear which countries would be affected by the latest restrictions, which Trump could reject or modify.

posted by melissasaurus at 9:59 AM on September 22, 2017 [5 favorites]

Nicaragua plans to join the Paris Agreement "soon," leaving the United States and Syria as the only two countries outside the climate pact. Joe Ryan, Bloomberg, Sept 20, 2017

Probably a coincidence.
posted by petebest at 10:10 AM on September 22, 2017 [16 favorites]

If you leave before a year, it looks like you are acknowledging that you made a mistake.

God forbid we have people working in the federal government who are able and willing to admit when they've made a mistake, and try to correct it earlier rather than later. What a bunch of privileged assholes.

This is why whenever I'm hiring, one of my first interview questions is always, "Tell me about a mistake you made. What happened, what did you do about it, and what did you learn?"
posted by nickmark at 10:11 AM on September 22, 2017 [14 favorites]

Worked in Trump WH less than 1 yr: O noes what has I done
Worked in Trump WH more than 1 yr: I are successful bureaucrat, money please
posted by petebest at 10:15 AM on September 22, 2017 [19 favorites]

but affecting slightly more than the six nations now targeted

So like, six and a third nations?
posted by mikepop at 10:15 AM on September 22, 2017

Well, no one's really sure how to count the addition of Nambia to the list.
posted by fragmede at 10:22 AM on September 22, 2017 [12 favorites]

Wait.

The new character in this saga is named Barrack?

2017's writers aren't even trying anymore, and the editors must have been sacked ages ago.
posted by schmod at 10:22 AM on September 22, 2017 [11 favorites]

Barrack had a lot to do with Trump's inauguration.

Yeah. Think about it.

Have you ever looked on the back of a dollar bill? There's some freaky stuff going on there.
posted by petebest at 10:28 AM on September 22, 2017 [5 favorites]

ZeusHumms: "Half-listened to an NPR story about the Alabama Senate race. One interviewee put it best as voting for the lesser of two evils."

They could also, you know, vote for the Democrat.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:36 AM on September 22, 2017 [9 favorites]

"Half-listened to an NPR story about the Alabama Senate race. One interviewee put it best as voting for the lesser of two evils."

They could also, you know, vote for the Democrat.

It's a primary.
posted by Etrigan at 10:38 AM on September 22, 2017 [1 favorite]

> The new character in this saga is named Barrack?

2017's writers aren't even trying anymore, and the editors must have been sacked ages ago.

I think we all were already out of evens, but this right here has exhausted my "OH, COME ON!" supply as well.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:39 AM on September 22, 2017 [7 favorites]

It's a primary.

Thank you, I am familiar with the race in question. I just meant - this doesn't HAVE to be Alabama's next senator, if you're willing to vote for a Dem in November.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:41 AM on September 22, 2017 [8 favorites]

I mean, I know that arranging events sucks, but they seemingly couldn't even pull off one talk. One talk! They couldn't invite one guy and book one space! A whole conference, that's tricky, but you should be able to get one thing organized without too much trouble.
posted by Frowner at 10:58 AM on September 22, 2017 [3 favorites]

More fodder for the mental impairment argument...

@MarlowNYC (Daily Beast)
Trump says "Melania really wanted to be with us" while she's literally standing right next to him. Unreal.

VIDEO
posted by chris24 at 10:59 AM on September 22, 2017 [21 favorites]

McCain "cannot in good conscience" vote for the repeal bill

But that just means he'll vote for it while shaking his head and feeling really bad about the whole thing, right?
posted by contraption at 10:59 AM on September 22, 2017 [14 favorites]

I will not exhale until Oct 1.
posted by Chrysostom at 11:02 AM on September 22, 2017 [42 favorites]

But that just means he'll vote for it while shaking his head and feeling really bad about the whole thing, right?

WaPo alert on my phone literally JUST NOW says he "will vote 'no'".

Of course, the story seems to be relying solely on the public statement, so it's basically them interpreting the "cannot in good conscience" line as him saying he won't vote for it. Which is totally rational with any other politician, in any other time line, but this is McCain in 2017, so . . . [insert the shrug text-emoticon that everyone but me apparently knows how to type]
posted by CommonSense at 11:06 AM on September 22, 2017 [5 favorites]

McCain just said he's a no on G-C.

"I cannot in good conscience vote for the Graham-Cassidy proposal," the Arizona Republican said in a statement. "I believe we could do better working together, Republicans and Democrats, and have not yet really tried. Nor could I support it without knowing how much it will cost, how it will effect insurance premiums, and how many people will be helped or hurt by it. Without a full CBO score, which won't be available by the end of the month, we won't have reliable answers to any of those questions."

Wow.
posted by chris24 at 11:06 AM on September 22, 2017 [28 favorites]

McCain "cannot in good conscience" vote for the repeal bill

I know, concern, head-wagging, etc., but wow, he didn't give himself much room to walk away from that statement.
With McCain gone, and the votes no longer seeming to be there, I wonder if this will start a stampede.
posted by martin q blank at 11:07 AM on September 22, 2017 [13 favorites]

McCain just said he's a no on G-C.

Wow.

I am reservedly enthusiastic, but I haven't started counting my chickens yet.
posted by drezdn at 11:09 AM on September 22, 2017 [7 favorites]

There's an abyss between "has concerns" and "cannot in good conscience," so Johnny might have actually committed himself to a no vote, here.

Which, in and of itself, makes me concerned about Murkowski having potentially caved, but that's 2017 for ya.
posted by lydhre at 11:10 AM on September 22, 2017 [7 favorites]

How good is his conscience, though?
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:12 AM on September 22, 2017 [21 favorites]

It just boggles the mind that Trump, surrounded by Manafort, Stone, Sater, Cohen, Page, and Flynn, each with greater or lesser ties to Putin's kleptocracy, would himself have been ignorant of what was going on.

I'm pretty sure being ignorant of what is going on, AKA "looking the other way," is Trump's whole job. His whole career.

Emphasis mine...
At Trump Tower:

Scores of Polish men were getting paid only $4 per hour, far below union wages, and they were working seven days a week in 12-hour shifts, sometimes longer, court documents show.

The Polish immigrants were required to use jackhammers and wheelbarrows to take down the building by hand, in “almost a Stone Age fashion,” as Sullivan described it.

Sullivan testified during the lawsuit that he could not have been more direct with Trump about the implications of using illegal immigrants and flouting the union contract. Sullivan testified that he had told Trump, “Don’t exploit them like that. . . . Don’t try to f--- these poor souls over.”

Trump has disputed Sullivan’s account and said under oath that he did not know that any illegal Polish immigrants were used for the demolition work. He said a subordinate and a demolition subcontractor mismanaged the project and testified he did not even visit the worksite. “I was no different than anybody walking up and down the sidewalk,” Trump said.

At the Trump Taj Mahal:

Roughly 400 pages of FinCEN documents obtained by CNN last month show that the Treasury accused the Trump Taj Mahal, which opened in 1990 and closed last year, of breaking anti-money-laundering regulations 106 times in the year and a half after it opened. Specifically, the casino was accused of failing to report to the IRS gamblers who cashed out more than $10,000 in a single day — a red flag for law enforcement officials tracking illicit cash flows.

The case was ultimately settled — the casino paid a $477,000 fine and admitted no wrongdoing.

Working with Bayrock:

In subsequent years, Trump issued conflicting statements about his relationship with Sater. In a 2011 deposition, Trump acknowledged that he used to speak to Sater “for a period of time.” Yet in a 2013 deposition, Trump said, “If he were sitting in the room right now, I really wouldn’t know what he looked like.” Trump had plenty of reason to distance himself from his felonious onetime business partner. Sater wasn’t simply controversial; he posed a serious risk for Trump. If Trump had been aware of Sater’s felonious and fraudulent past before the Times story came out, such knowledge could taint business deals the Trump Organization made involving Bayrock and possibly create a legal liability.

I totally believe that Trump "doesn't know anything" about the collusion his son, son-in-law, campaign manager, national security adviser, and attorney general, along with his laywer and some old friends, were getting up to. Of course he doesn't know. Who would tell him? The idiot confessed to obstruction of justice on national TV and leaked classified intel to the Russian ambassador in the Oval Office. Why would you tell him anything? But he knew one thing: he knew he was not supposed to ask any questions. He is good at not asking questions. He is good at forgetting things. And that what people have paid him for, his whole life.
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:13 AM on September 22, 2017 [35 favorites]

Goodness gracious great balls of fire

Jerry Lee Lewis was a violent, malignant, misogynistic narcissist too, but at least he was entertaining when on stage.
posted by spitbull at 11:14 AM on September 22, 2017

Reminder: still keep calling your senators.
posted by Chrysostom at 11:14 AM on September 22, 2017 [12 favorites]

[MORBID] So what happens if McCain dies from his cancer and the governor of Arizona appoints a replacement without a “good conscience”?
posted by stopgap at 11:14 AM on September 22, 2017 [1 favorite]

I will not relax until it's October and Yertle hasn't brought a parliamentary motion declaring that math has been rewritten and 47-53 is now a majority.
posted by delfin at 11:15 AM on September 22, 2017 [12 favorites]

If they don't have the numbers they aren't even going to bring it to the floor this time. First sign will be Yertle slithering back to the bottom of the pond, hissing, taking the bill with him.
posted by lydhre at 11:16 AM on September 22, 2017 [9 favorites]

Bear in mind McCain's entire brand is being untrustworthy and unreliable.
posted by Pope Guilty at 11:17 AM on September 22, 2017 [15 favorites]

Maverickrolled
posted by kirkaracha at 11:20 AM on September 22, 2017 [26 favorites]

Bear in mind McCain's entire brand is being untrustworthy and unreliable.

No, his whole brand is leaving himself enough wiggle room to say the rightish thing but do the wrong thing and not be called out on it.
posted by lydhre at 11:21 AM on September 22, 2017 [7 favorites]

Lauren Duca with a solid take, retweeting the AP report that McCain will oppose the bill "EAT SHIT, GREED GOBLINS"

though I am curious about why McCain would announce it at this exact moment, considering he waited until after the 11th hour (literally) last time?
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 11:22 AM on September 22, 2017 [3 favorites]

To be fair, she [Murkowski] put herself in that nasty place when she decided to run as a Republican.

Late in seeing this but . . .

To be fair, in 2010 she did not run as a Republican. She ran as a write-in candidate and beat the odious Republican primary winner.

I will still predict Lisa Murkowski is a "no" on this round. I've shaken her hand, measured the cut of her jib in outstanding constituent service for rural Alaska communities where I work, and I think she will come through for the right side this time too. She is many things, but stupid is not one of them. She represents a deeply rural culturally conservative state. But she represents their interests, not their fears.
posted by spitbull at 11:23 AM on September 22, 2017 [52 favorites]

stopgap: "[MORBID] So what happens if McCain dies from his cancer and the governor of Arizona appoints a replacement without a “good conscience”?"

Unless that happens before Oct 1, they'd still be out of the reconciliation period.
posted by Chrysostom at 11:24 AM on September 22, 2017 [2 favorites]

though I am curious about why McCain would announce it at this exact moment, considering he waited until after the 11th hour (literally) last time?

He doesn't want to string along/embarrass his friend Lindsey?
posted by chris24 at 11:24 AM on September 22, 2017 [3 favorites]

Yertle hasn't brought a parliamentary motion declaring that math has been rewritten and 47-53 is now a majority.

Easier McConnell: congressional act declaring September lasts for 90 days.
posted by spitbull at 11:27 AM on September 22, 2017 [10 favorites]

The Eternal September!
posted by Chrysostom at 11:27 AM on September 22, 2017 [17 favorites]

McCain: "I believe we could do better working together, Republicans and Democrats, and have not yet really tried."

The both-sides-do-it media is going to love that sentence, but I read it as McCain scolding Republicans ("we") as not trying to work with Democrats.

Then again, I expect the media will give it the usual spin of "bipartisanship means Democrats should make concessions to Republicans."
posted by Gelatin at 11:29 AM on September 22, 2017 [6 favorites]

The Eternal September!

Wake me up when it ends.
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:29 AM on September 22, 2017 [14 favorites]

(but really, the problem didn't start until the college kids' parents got online)
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:30 AM on September 22, 2017 [5 favorites]

If Collins and Murkowski come out against it this afternoon CNN is going to be soooo pissed.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:31 AM on September 22, 2017 [7 favorites]

It just boggles the mind that Trump, surrounded by Manafort, Stone, Sater, Cohen, Page, and Flynn, each with greater or lesser ties to Putin's kleptocracy, would himself have been ignorant of what was going on.

No, it doesn't. T has absolutely no idea how any of this works. He's not a politician, and doesn't have the cognitive capability of being one. He's not even that good a real estate con man. He just wanted a cool prize that would lead to him being adored by millions. Nothing more than that.
posted by Melismata at 11:33 AM on September 22, 2017 [1 favorite]

Of course McCain's statement takes a passing shot at Obamacare:

We should not be content to pass health care legislation on a party-line basis, as Democrats did when they rammed Obamacare through Congress in 2009. If we do so, our success could be as short-lived as theirs when the political winds shift, as they regularly do.

1) So much bullshit in two sentences.

2) Short-lived? 2009 to now is eight years and counting, dude.

3) The political winds did shift, and you jagoffs couldn't pass a replacement with control of the White House and both houses of Congress.
posted by kirkaracha at 11:33 AM on September 22, 2017 [44 favorites]

The both-sides-do-it media is going to love that sentence, but I read it as McCain scolding Republicans ("we") as not trying to work with Democrats.

Nah, he's definitely blaming both sides, hence the dig at Democrats "ramming" Obamacare through on a party-line vote. He's once again claiming to be above it all, both sides should be ashamed.
posted by Roommate at 11:33 AM on September 22, 2017 [1 favorite]

This SHOULD give a few more Rs a chance to not-fearlesslessly turn to "NOs"; we'll see how much pressure their key 'big money' people can exert (I've heard that even some of them aren't happy with GrahamCracker-ButchCassidy).
posted by oneswellfoop at 11:37 AM on September 22, 2017

Which is, in a way, a good sign, because it means the both-sides shoe isn't waiting to drop next week in a surprise "yes" vote.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 11:38 AM on September 22, 2017 [1 favorite]

Fuck it, I'll let him pretend to be mavericky if he kills the bill.
posted by chris24 at 11:38 AM on September 22, 2017 [19 favorites]

John McCain Steps Up

This is fair enough from McCain. It is also a near fatal blow for the bill. Another Republican, Senator Rand Paul of Kentucky, has already declared his opposition. (Paul's objection is that the bill does not go far enough, raising the possibility he would prefer our hospital waiting rooms look more like Fury Road.) Then again, Paul declared his opposition to the last Senate effort, then voted for it. The real rub lies with Senators Lisa Murkowski and Susan Collins, the Republican women who have displayed genuine integrity throughout the RAGFY process and opposed each successive monstrosity. If they maintain that record, their votes combined with McCain's will be enough to sink this bill with 49 votes.

posted by kirkaracha at 11:43 AM on September 22, 2017 [22 favorites]

Easier McConnell: congressional act declaring September lasts for 90 days.

The election has come and passed
The poor and sick can never last
Wake me up when September ends

Obama's two term come to pass
Eight years have gone so fast
Wake me up when September ends

Here comes the GOP again
Taking healthcare from us all
Drenched in financial pain again
Showing who we really are
As my memory rests
But never forgets coverage I lost
Wake me up when September ends
posted by Talez at 11:43 AM on September 22, 2017 [12 favorites]

I for one am willing to stop dumping on John McCain, if he holds his ground and stops Graham-Cassidy. He has apparently come through twice putting country ahead of party on health care. Nothing like a terminal diagnosis to focus the mind, and I think it is significant that he knows his expiration date now. He's still a republican. He still picked Sarah Palin as his VP. But at the moment he is standing in the fucking gap for millions of people threatened by this insanity. And if Sens. Collins and Murkowski continue to stand in the gap, they get equal credit from me. Doesn't mean I don't hope each one loses to a democrat every time they stand for election in the future, but as the rest of their GOP colleagues are making clear, they are staring down potent big money and the far right in their own states (Murkowski's warm reception in Alaska after her previous no vote was widely reported, but less widely reported was a torrent of nasty, misogynistic attacks from the Alaskan far right, which is a really gross variant of the infection.)

That takes courage. I won't mock it.
posted by spitbull at 11:47 AM on September 22, 2017 [40 favorites]

Doesn't mean I don't hope each one loses to a democrat every time they stand for election in the future

I kind of want them to be the Republicans who get to stay in office, while the assholes get voted out. It would drag our politics back from the brink if there were evidence that being sane and moderate helped your electoral chances instead of hurting them, on the Republican side...
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:50 AM on September 22, 2017 [11 favorites]

Lindsay Graham can, however, continue to go fuck himself.
posted by spitbull at 11:50 AM on September 22, 2017 [20 favorites]

He can fuck himself? Sweet Jesus, Bannon is gonna want to know about this!
posted by Lyme Drop at 11:51 AM on September 22, 2017 [24 favorites]

Isn't Collins already on record as a no for the Graham Cassidy bill?
posted by bardophile at 11:52 AM on September 22, 2017

"Leaning no," but she's had all negative comments about it.
posted by Chrysostom at 11:54 AM on September 22, 2017 [1 favorite]

Isn't Collins already on record as a no for the Graham Cassidy bill?

Press Herald:

U.S. Sen. Susan Collins all but said she would vote “no” on an Affordable Care Act repeal bill on Friday morning at an event in Portland.

“I’m leaning against the bill,” the Maine Republican said after listing a series of serious deficiencies in the Graham-Cassidy repeal bill.

“I’m just trying to do what I believe is the right thing for the people of Maine,” said Collins, appearing at the Holiday Inn By The Bay to give a speech about affordable housing.

posted by chris24 at 11:54 AM on September 22, 2017 [1 favorite]

We're all still onboard the Joe Lieberman can fuck himself train right, it was first out of the station? I'm still on that train for what it's worth, it's been blazing a path to glory for some time now.
posted by riverlife at 11:54 AM on September 22, 2017 [3 favorites]

Yes; additionally she called out the fact that it doesn't cover pre-existing conditions.
posted by mikepop at 11:54 AM on September 22, 2017 [2 favorites]

That takes courage. I won't mock it.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but where has McCain's courage been for the last decade or two? If it literally takes brain cancer and imminent death to find their courage and get a Republican to do the right thing, I have to shudder. We can't afford to wait for them all to get brain cancer.
posted by JackFlash at 11:55 AM on September 22, 2017 [11 favorites]

I also don't trust McCain not to betray us at the 11th hour. He's not doing what's right, he's doing what gets him the most attention before he dies. And a last second reversal of his reversal would be the story of the month and get him on all the talk shows.

Also, what JackFlash said.

I'll acknowledge that we (seem to be, no guarantees) keeping the ACA because of his vote. But where was he before this? You can't undo a lifetime of evil with a single vote. Or even two.
posted by sotonohito at 11:58 AM on September 22, 2017 [3 favorites]

I kind of want them to be the Republicans who get to stay in office, while the assholes get voted out

Personally I agree. I've said this before, but as someone familiar with bush Alaska from 10 years of working there regularly, I believe Lisa Murkowski represents her constituents well and serves them even better. She is an ideologue only in putting her state's economic interests ahead of its environmental ones, which believe me I find disturbing. I live in NYC. I expect to be represented by liberal politicians because liberals are a significant majority in my community. But by that same reasoning, I think a majority of Alaskans is very happy being represented by a business-first rational Republican who can work with Democrats, and who is intimately familiar with her state's communities and culture.
posted by spitbull at 11:59 AM on September 22, 2017 [10 favorites]

I still remember my first impression of McCain as one of the "Keating Five" in the '80s, the only Republican and the only one who didn't need to be bribed to help out a major fraudster in the S&L scandals, so his evil is kind of grandfathered in for me.
posted by oneswellfoop at 12:00 PM on September 22, 2017 [12 favorites]

Courage would have been coming out against an obviously evil bill as soon as it was announced. The fact that people have had to wonder for the past 8 months whether their kids will live or die is cruel. If someone holds you at gunpoint for months but then doesn't kill you, they may not be a murder but they're definitely not a hero.
posted by melissasaurus at 12:00 PM on September 22, 2017 [14 favorites]

This week feels like the scene in Aliens when Ripley and Newt and burned Marine guy and Bishop are back on the big ship and everything is safe and then OH MY GOD THE THING FLEW UP THERE WITH THEM AND RIPS BISHOP IN HALF

Which is to say, if this bill dies (does anti-jinx maneuver) I will feel what I felt, seeing that movie, when Ripley says 'Get away from her you BITCH.'
posted by angrycat at 12:02 PM on September 22, 2017 [6 favorites]

The vote is on the 27th. 5 days. That is .45 Scaramuccis from now. A lot can happen between now and next Thursday in this timeline.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 12:02 PM on September 22, 2017 [28 favorites]

I swear before Trump I didn't find Alexandra Petri particularly funny. Maybe things had to be more absurd before her absurd take on them was funny to me? I have no idea, but now I love her and would like to have her for a sibling or best friend or possibly spouse.

I'm over here with literal tears literally streaming down my face laughing over the high risk pools full of nurse sharks line from Johnny Wallflower's link from last night.

Truthfully, I haven't even called my GOP senator yet this round. It gets tiring saying, hey, remember my heartfelt letter about how much my family needs the ACA? You probably don't remember since you threw it in the trash immediately, not bothering with even a form letter in reply. So, let me tell you again what was in it, and I will ask you again for a return call or e-mail explaining how you plan to protect kids like my kids under your plan, and you can delete my voice mail again! It's a fun game, like having a pet rock except the rock hates me.

I get that these people do not agree with me but their steadfast belief that they don't even have to REPRESENT me will never stop pissing me off.

Anyway, now that I've found time to whine about it on metafilter I suppose I can get off my ass and call him
posted by gerstle at 12:04 PM on September 22, 2017 [21 favorites]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion

Why yes they are, thank you.

but where has McCain's courage been for the last decade or two?

That's my point. I'm not excusing his history. I'm praising his current stance. I won't withhold that praise because he's been a douchebag for a long time.

If it literally takes brain cancer and imminent death to find their courage and get a Republican to do the right thing, I have to shudder

At the moment we only need three of them, and one of them does have a terminal diagnosis.

It's just that every single time McCain is mentioned, we go through a ritual shaming and call attention to his history of not putting money where his mouth was. I get it. I share the opinion. I swore I'd never respect him again after the Palin pick. But goddammit I will give him credit for money/mouth alignment this time.

There's plenty of political cowardice among Democratic politicians too. Politicians who last a long time are typically professional cowards.
posted by spitbull at 12:04 PM on September 22, 2017 [10 favorites]

I honestly don't give a shit why he votes no, at this point, as long as he does so. I'm actually okay with his entire legacy hinging on this and for the accolades to come pouring in. Whatever. Kill the repeal, McCain, then have your goddamn cookie and feel good about your soul.
posted by lydhre at 12:05 PM on September 22, 2017 [23 favorites]

You don't have to launch into a monologue. Just say 'Id like to leave a message for Senator Foo and ask that they vote against Graham- Cassidy' Thank the staffer, say goodbye.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 12:06 PM on September 22, 2017 [6 favorites]

Lydhre sort of explains my own position better than I did.
posted by spitbull at 12:07 PM on September 22, 2017

No, if he votes no again, that's what he gets credit for, a vote. It doesn't redefine his legacy of opening the Teahadist floodgates with the nomination of Palin, working with the Keating Five, working against Obama and Hillary, being a huge part of the Party of No. Fuck no.
posted by riverlife at 12:08 PM on September 22, 2017 [9 favorites]

I'm sorry, but having worked in sexual health for going on 30 years, I can't see GC without thinking gonorrhea/chlamydia. Sorry.
posted by Sophie1 at 12:10 PM on September 22, 2017 [13 favorites]

Well that's OK, we'll have single payer health care, guaranteed basic income, and 90% marginal taxes on income over 250K just as soon as we win back congress and the white house in the massive landslide the next socialist candidate is sure to win.
posted by spitbull at 12:11 PM on September 22, 2017 [3 favorites]

That takes courage. I won't mock it.

But we still will mock removing the iPhone's 3.5mm port, right?
posted by Talez at 12:17 PM on September 22, 2017 [9 favorites]

The title of this thread better not be prophetic is all I'm sayin'.
posted by whuppy at 12:19 PM on September 22, 2017 [11 favorites]

Whatever. Kill the repeal, McCain, then have your goddamn cookie and feel good about your soul.

Im in no position to decide whether or not he gets to feel good about his soul (or whether souls exist, and if they do whether he even has one) BUT if this were to be coming true in my perfect universe, there sure as hell would be a picture of Sarah Palin on that cookie he was eating. . .
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 12:20 PM on September 22, 2017 [1 favorite]

So, remember how Texas will get a windfall of $35 billion to help replace Obamacare exchanges and other programs, if the Graham-Cassidy++ bill gets passed? A couple major problems: 1) Texas has low per-capita costs already, and they get locked into that forever with this bill, and #2 is a doozy --

There's no planning and no thought put into, how would we create affordable coverage for low-income Texans unlike the 31 states that have expanded Medicaid, have done some central planning? And Texas would be starting from scratch.

That's Stacey Pogue with the Center for Public Policy Priorities in Austin, via NPR's comparison of California (which would lose 35 percent of its funding by 2026) and Texas (Sept. 21, 2017).

For comparison, it took Massachusetts four years to set up its pre-Obamacare insurance market. Texans will get nothing for years, so in reality, everyone does lose with this plan. Oh, except the wealthy, whose taxes would go down, if the GOP can wrangle their tax plan that is utilizing "upbeat estimates" instead of the critical/ realistic CBO score (Damian Paletta and Mike DeBonis for Washington Post, September 21, 2017).
posted by filthy light thief at 12:31 PM on September 22, 2017 [4 favorites]

But we still will mock removing the iPhone's 3.5mm port, right?

WHAT

*googles*

Oh, no fucking way, man! What of my legacy electronics?

*grumble grumble phones these days grumble freaking innovation bastards*
posted by darkstar at 12:31 PM on September 22, 2017 [6 favorites]

The title of this thread better not be prophetic is all I'm sayin'.

I have had the exact same thought at least a dozen times since I posted this fpp. :-|
posted by darkstar at 12:32 PM on September 22, 2017 [3 favorites]

What of my legacy electronics?

no problem!
posted by thelonius at 12:34 PM on September 22, 2017 [7 favorites]

you jagoffs couldn't pass a replacement with control of the White House and both houses of Congress.

On reflection, it's definitely baffling that they haven't. They could have done so with wide, bipartisan support in the Senate, easily. All they needed was a plan that covers everyone - no exceptions, ensures coverage for pre-existing conditions, has no lifetime or yearly caps, no or very low deductibles and copays, ensures that insurance companies cannot boot anyone off their plan or raise their premiums regardless of what happens to them, has low premiums, subsidizes premiums according to income such that no American feels squeezed to afford it, costs substantially less than the ACA, lowers taxes, doesn't piss off the insurance industry, doesn't piss off the Koch brothers, doesn't piss off the wacko tea-party types, and isn't in any way or have any resemblance, even in passing, to Obamacare, and is completely market-based - not socialized, or single-payer, or anything like that.

Oh! And has far better health outcomes than the current system. And covers at least, everything that the ACA ensures.

You know, the plan Trump promised he had. They should have just used that one. Coulda wrapped the whole thing up with a bow in like, a week tops.
posted by mrgoat at 12:35 PM on September 22, 2017 [70 favorites]

As unbearable as everything else is, take this tiny bit of glee where you can find it: apparently because they neither reserved the spaces nor solidified their invites, that whole Berkeley alt-right thing appears to have virtually dried up and blown away.

My gut was telling me Milo never planned on coming in the first place, but I'm embarrassed to say that I bought the hype. I knew it sounded impossible, but everyone seemed so sure about it that I figured something would happen. We were being trolled all along. Our chancellor advocated hard for this because she was worried about more bad PR (after Milo's last attempt at trolling the university was taken at face value as a "free speech" issue), but the real event was the lead-up.

What still sucks is that unless the event is cancelled, and probably even if it isn't, the university has to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to cover security. It could exceed a million dollars. Tensions are running really high right now, and this has been hyped up since the start of the semester. It's still possible that something will happen. I'll be amazed if anyone shows up to speak on campus next week. Maybe we'll see the guys from the Berkeley Patriot on Sproul Plaza making some fuss about how their rights were shot down, or something. I don't know if people are still planning on protesting, and if those protests could still turn violent. Who knows.

As tempting as it is to be satisfied that "Free ~~Troll~~ Speech Week" is not actually happening -- I mean, aside from the fact that this (like everything else) remains unconfirmed -- don't overlook that they've still managed to waste a ton of the university's money and disrupt campus life. Academic events have already had to be rescheduled, showing that the administration seems to care more about the PR effect of "free speech" trolls than the actual academic life of the campus. A ton of damage has already been done, and it didn't cost Milo or the Berkeley Patriot a cent.

The takeaway from this is that we're in a really shitty spot. We have a university administration that can easily be taken advantage of because of a dominant media narrative that they're weak on free speech. We have a large percentage of the student body that is apparently not mature enough to invite right-wing trolls (it's actually embarrassing that so many people at my school seem so keen on shitty trolling). We have a media narrative that says antifa=fascist, and takes claims about "free speech" at face value; the NYT was asking students if they were attracted to Berkeley because of its history "as a beacon of free speech." The narrative cards are stacked against Berkeley right now, and it puts us in a really vulnerable place where someone like Milo Yiannopoulos can say he's going to visit without ever intending to, and still do real damage. And they love it! They get to laugh about us falling over ourselves, and we get to have a national spotlight on us if anything bad happens.

This sucks for the vast majority of students and faculty who just want to go to class and not have to deal with news cameras every other week. It's gotten really old.
posted by shapes that haunt the dusk at 12:37 PM on September 22, 2017 [33 favorites]

Vanity Fair ran a story on Milo's "Free Speech Week" yesterday, before the cancellation, asking Has Milo Yiannopoulos’s Berkeley Troll Circus Become a Fyre Festival for the Right?

It makes a good case that he was never serious at all. Putting out schedules with speakers that never agreed to come, failing to reserve rooms and buildings, telling speakers you won't book their hotels and flights until 48 hours before the event, then going out to the press and whining that you're being censored? This stuff is classic trolling behavior, and it worked.

The flip side is that I'm worried he's just going to show up anyway, because isn't that what an awful person would do after this?
posted by zachlipton at 12:48 PM on September 22, 2017 [29 favorites]

Whatever. Kill the repeal, McCain, then have your goddamn cookie and feel good about your soul.

Yes. I would publicly and unreservedly praise McCain if it helped even a tiny amount to avoid ACA repeal.
posted by shothotbot at 12:52 PM on September 22, 2017 [2 favorites]

Courage would have been coming out against an obviously evil bill as soon as it was announced.

This is true, but I'm also 100% okay with Republicans wasting the dwindling time they have left to accomplish their other goals if this does fail.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 12:58 PM on September 22, 2017 [4 favorites]

I'm also 100% okay with Republicans wasting the dwindling time they have left to accomplish their other goals if this does fail.

So much this. If they had given up on Obamacare repeal in March, they could have a tax cuts for billionaires package up for vote this week, or passed it already and moved on to...well I have no idea because that's literally the extent of their policy agenda, but whatever else they could be doing would be fucking horrible. If we get into 2018 and all they've managed to do is appoint Gorsuch and repeal a lot of regulations that can be put back fairly easily, I would've taken that in a heartbeat on November 9th 2016.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:05 PM on September 22, 2017 [10 favorites]

HHS says it will shut down healthcare.gov from 12am-12pm on every Sunday but one during open enrollment.

I knew they were going to sabotage this, but I didn't realize they were going to be so bloody obvious so as to just turn the website off for 12 hour chunks of time.

This is begging for progressive churches to use that time to get their flocks invested in an effort to spread the word about signups and help people in the community to get signed up in time.
posted by jason_steakums at 1:07 PM on September 22, 2017 [25 favorites]

Ajit Pai’s plan to lower broadband standards is “crazy,” FCC Democrat says (Jon Brodkin for Ars Technica, Sept. 21, 2017)

The FCC is "proposing to lower US broadband standard from 25 to 10Mbps," FCC Commissioner Jessica Rosenworcel tweeted. "This is crazy. Lowering standards doesn't solve our broadband problems."
...
Senate Democrats also said the FCC should not lower its broadband standards.

Rosenworcel didn't make an official statement when the Notice of Inquiry was released because she wasn't on the commission at that time; she was sworn in for a new term just days later. She previously served on the FCC before a temporary departure caused by political haggling in the Senate. In her first term on the FCC, Rosenworcel argued (PDF) that the FCC should set its broadband standard much higher.

"I think our new threshold should be 100Mbps—and gigabit speed should be in our sights," Rosenworcel said upon the release of last year's broadband analysis. "I believe anything short of goals like this shortchanges our children, our future, and our digital economy."

Related: Verizon backtracks—but only slightly—in plan to kick customers off network (Jon Brodkin for Ars, Sept. 22, 2017)

Verizon Wireless is giving a reprieve to some rural customers who are scheduled to be booted off their service plans, but only in cases when customers have no other options for cellular service.

Verizon recently notified 8,500 customers in 13 states that they will be disconnected on October 17 because they used roaming data on another network. But these customers weren't doing anything wrong—they are being served by rural networks that were set up for the purpose of extending Verizon's reach into rural areas.

As Verizon explained in 2015, the company set up its LTE in Rural America (LRA) program to provide technical support and resources to 21 rural wireless carriers. That support would help the carriers build 4G networks. Verizon benefited by being able to reach more customers in sparsely populated areas. Customers with these plans don't even see roaming indicators on their phones, as it appears that they're on the Verizon network.

But now Verizon is kicking customers off the network in cases when Verizon's roaming costs exceed what customers pay Verizon. Customers are being disconnected for using just a few gigabytes a month, as we reported yesterday.

Today, Verizon said it is extending the deadline to switch providers to December 1. The company is also letting some customers stay on the network—although they must switch to a new service plan.

Don't worry, the other majors are still there for you ... but there's a change there, too: T-Mobile, Sprint finally figuring out this merger thing (Jon for Ars, Sept. 22, 2017) -- T-Mobile owner would take majority stake; US would be left with 3 big carriers.

T-Mobile USA and Sprint are getting further along in merger talks and are "close to agreeing [to] tentative terms on a deal," Reuters reported today, citing anonymous sources.

Ah, shit. Well, hopefully there are some rural providers in your neck of the (back)woods.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:09 PM on September 22, 2017 [17 favorites]

a very unflattering Newsweek cover
posted by angrycat at 1:11 PM on September 22, 2017 [14 favorites]

Dana Milbank, WaPo: President Trump actually is making us crazy

President Trump is making us ill. He’s also driving us crazy.

Since I wrote last week about the possibility that Trump is literally killing me (in the form of high blood pressure), the reaction has been, as the kids say, sick.

From the left came a flood of responses from people experiencing all manner of symptoms, real or imagined, of what I called Trump Hypertensive Unexplained Disorder: Disturbed sleep. Anger. Dread. Weight loss. Overeating. Headaches. Fainting. Irregular heartbeats. Chronic neck pain. Depression. Irritable bowel syndrome. Tightness in the chest. Shortness of breath. Teeth grinding. Stomach ulcer. Indigestion. Shingles. Eye twitching. Nausea. Irritability. High blood sugar. Tinnitus. Reduced immunity. Racing pulse. Shaking limbs. Hair loss. Acid reflux. Deteriorating vision. Stroke. Heart attack.

It was a veritable organ recital.

posted by Johnny Wallflower at 1:12 PM on September 22, 2017 [29 favorites]

VIRGINIA HOUSE ELECTIONS - HD 71-75

intro
1-5
6-10
11-15
16-20
21-25
26-30
31-35
36-40
41-45
46-50
51-55
56-60
61-65
66-70

===

71st District
Currently Dem seat
R cand: none
D cand: Jeff Bourne (incumbent)

Richmond, 33.4% white. Incumbent first elected in 2017 special. D won 88-12 in 2013, no R candidate in 2015 or 2017 special. Clinton won district 85-10.

===

72nd District
Currently GOP seat
R cand: Edward Whitlock III
D cand: Schuyler VanValkenburg

Richmond suburbs, 73.5% white. No D candidate in 2013 or 2015. Clinton won district 49-44. Ballotpedia Race To Watch and Flippable Potential district. Chrysostom's "best name match-up."

===

73rd District
Currently GOP seat
R cand: John O'Bannon (incumbent)
D cand: Debra Rodman

Richmond suburbs, 70.6% white. Incumbent first elected in 2000 special. No D candidate in 2013 or 2015. Clinton won district 51-43.

===

74th District
Currently Dem seat
R cand: none
D cand: Lamont Bagby (incumbent)

Richmond exurbs, 33.2% white. Incumbent first elected in 2015 special. No R candidate in 2013, independent won 42-33-24 in 2015 special, D won 85-15 in 2nd 2015 special, D won 79-21 in 2015. Clinton won district 73-24. There is an independent candidate.

===

75th District
Currently Dem seat
R cand: none
D cand: Roz Tyler

Mostly rural eastern district on NC border, 41.4% white. Incumbent first elected in 2005. D won 62-38 in 2013, no R candidate in 2015. Clinton won district 57-41.

===

Next time: 76-80
posted by Chrysostom at 1:19 PM on September 22, 2017 [29 favorites]

I'm also 100% okay with Republicans wasting the dwindling time they have left to accomplish their other goals if this does fail.

So much this. If they had given up on Obamacare repeal in March, they could have a tax cuts for billionaires package up for vote this week

The 2017 reconciliation instructions were focused on healthcare, so I don't think they could have used the 2017 budget to pass tax reform; they need to use 2018 reconciliation for taxes (but they needed the baseline adjustment from ACA repeal to really get the tax cuts they want). Or, they need 60 votes.
posted by melissasaurus at 1:23 PM on September 22, 2017 [5 favorites]

HHS says it will shut down healthcare.gov from 12am-12pm on every Sunday but one during open enrollment.

I knew they were going to sabotage this, but I didn't realize they were going to be so bloody obvious so as to just turn the website off for 12 hour chunks of time.

Pfft, you're supposed to be in church on Sunday mornings, not fooling around on the web!
posted by elsietheeel at 1:23 PM on September 22, 2017 [4 favorites]

If they had given up on Obamacare repeal in March, they could have a tax cuts for billionaires package up for vote this week, or passed it already and moved on

That is unlikely. Cutting healthcare spending is integral to their coming up with a tax cut plan that passes reconciliation rules and also makes the tax cuts permanent. There is just no other place in the budget that they seem willing to cut out a trillion dollars over the next decade -- but they will keep trying.

If they can't pass this Obamacare repeal they are going to be extremely hemmed in by the budget rules when it comes to tax cuts. They aren't going to get the big cuts they wanted. What comes out is likely to pretty small bore compared to their ambitions at the beginning of the year.

Or course they could always simply change the rules, ignore the CBO scoring, and make up their own numbers.
posted by JackFlash at 1:27 PM on September 22, 2017 [6 favorites]

That's actually the word on what they're planning to do - just make shit up.
posted by Chrysostom at 1:34 PM on September 22, 2017 [1 favorite]

HHS says it will shut down healthcare.gov from 12am-12pm on every Sunday but one during open enrollment.

I'm glad that Tom Price is worried about the immortal souls of his websites' servers. If they don't remember the Sabbath and keep it holy, next thing they'll be dishonoring their parents and coveting neighboring servers's wives.
posted by Copronymus at 1:38 PM on September 22, 2017 [12 favorites]

Honor thy father and motherboard.
posted by riverlife at 1:43 PM on September 22, 2017 [19 favorites]

From the wtf 2017 omens file: End-of-world prediction interrupts TV broadcasts in Orange County

Some Orange County residents were stunned Thursday, Sept. 21, when television programming was suddenly interrupted for about a minute with an ominous message predicting the end of the world.
Stacy Laflamme of Lake Forest said she was watching the HGTV channel via Cox Communications about 11:05 a.m. when suddenly an emergency alert flashed across her screen followed by a voice.
“Realize this, extremely violent times will come,” a man’s voice boomed, according to a video of the alert.

posted by rewil at 1:46 PM on September 22, 2017 [4 favorites]

you jagoffs couldn't pass a replacement with control of the White House and both houses of Congress

Forgot to mention they've had eight fucking years to come up with a better plan, but all they did is bitch bitch bitch.
posted by kirkaracha at 1:48 PM on September 22, 2017 [11 favorites]

Ben Carson putting out a statement supporting Roy Moore a few hours before Trump goes to hold a rally for Strange is really damn weird, right?
posted by zachlipton at 1:51 PM on September 22, 2017 [11 favorites]

From MAD Magazine's 7 SIGNS THAT THE WORLD WILL END TOMORROW: "Trump tweeted 'The world's not going to end, believe me'."
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:52 PM on September 22, 2017 [4 favorites]

Ben Carson putting out a statement supporting Roy Moore a few hours before Trump goes to hold a rally for Strange is really damn weird, right?

And also illegal, no? Carson may have violated federal law at Trump's Phoenix rally back in late August, because

His appearance at the rally sparked speculation that Carson may have violated the federal Hatch Act, which prohibits executive-branch employees from using their federal positions for political advantage.

The act specifically prohibits Cabinet secretaries from participating in such events in a way that suggests they are doing so in an official capacity, a rule meant to prevent officials from using their positions to promote specific candidates or party platforms.

“The idea is that the government, once it's in government, is supposed to be nonpartisan. It’s really to prevent the abuse of power," Campaign Legal Center director Larry Noble told the Post.

Secretaries are not banned from speaking at such rallies, but they can't appear to do so under their official title or as part of their Cabinet duties.

So I guess the question is: did Ben Carson, random person of note, state his support for Roy Moore, or was it Housing and Urban Development Secretary Ben Carson? (And will anything come of these illegal activities?)
posted by filthy light thief at 1:55 PM on September 22, 2017 [15 favorites]

oneswellfoop: From MAD Magazine's 7 SIGNS THAT THE WORLD WILL END TOMORROW: "Trump tweeted 'The world's not going to end, believe me'."

My wife pointed out, as I'm sure others have, too, that whenever Trump says "believe me," that's the best indication that he's lying.

The other good indicator being that he's saying anything at all. Or tweeting.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:58 PM on September 22, 2017 [2 favorites]

I have some of this at home so I'm totes going to watch.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 1:59 PM on September 22, 2017

angrycat: jeez, deciding whether or not to listen to a Trump rally in Alabama when he's got bad news flying about feels like deciding whether or not to look at an accident as you pass it on the street. I can't quite figure out all the similarities, but the feeling of shame for being curious is sort of the same.

You're only interested for the spectacle, not because you expect anything good will happen. Don't worry, it's a very human response, as is the paired feeling of shame.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:59 PM on September 22, 2017 [4 favorites]

It's like going to see NASCAR for the crashes, or Game of Thrones for the beheadings....
posted by oneswellfoop at 2:03 PM on September 22, 2017 [1 favorite]

jeez, deciding whether or not to listen to a Trump rally in Alabama when he's got bad news flying about feels like deciding whether or not to look at an accident as you pass it on the street. I can't quite figure out all the similarities, but the feeling of shame for being curious is sort of the same.

Calling all Germans, we need your linguistic help, here!

Embarrassment on behalf of another = Fremdscham

Glee at misfortune of a friend = Schadenfreude

Sense of shame at the compulsion to look upon another's tragedy = ???
posted by darkstar at 2:06 PM on September 22, 2017 [4 favorites]

Rubbernecker's guilt.
posted by filthy light thief at 2:09 PM on September 22, 2017 [5 favorites]

I can't even stand to hear 5-10 second clips of Cheetoh Mussolini speaking. It fills me with rage and the overwhelming urge to slap everyone who was stupid enough to vote for him. I can't wrap my head around the thought of willingly watching him even if it's for the sake of watching him have a bad day.

The only moments of him I want to see are where he's found guilty and where he's marched off to prison. Until and unless that happens, the less of him I see, the better.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 2:10 PM on September 22, 2017 [44 favorites]

I will also happily watch a 60-second clip of him climbing into Marine One and being whisked away on his final day in office.

Extra bonus points if it happens well before January 2021.
posted by darkstar at 2:13 PM on September 22, 2017 [4 favorites]

I'm the same, scaryblackdeath. I mute him if he's on the news, I tab away from the screen if I'm watching some late night show and they have a clip of him. I don't want to see or hear him. He takes up enough of my goddamn mental space already, and sometimes you just don't have more room in your day for a rage blackout, you know? But his perp walk? That I'll watch again and again and again.
posted by yasaman at 2:14 PM on September 22, 2017 [29 favorites]

How States Are Banding Together To Take On Trump (NPR, Sept. 21, 2017)

When President Trump announced a ban on travel for citizens from several predominantly Muslim countries in January, a coalition of officials from various blue states quickly rallied to fight it.

"We just started talking to each other Friday afternoon," recalls New York Attorney General Eric Schneiderman. "By Sunday morning, we had 17 states signed on to say, 'This is unconstitutional. We're going into court to stop it.' And we went into courts all over the country and eventually got it struck down."
...
And as the investigation into Russian interference in last year's election heats up, the states could once again play a powerful adversarial role, especially if the White House takes steps to thwart the probe.

If federal officials decide not to pursue charges — or are blocked from doing so — states conceivably could step in to fill the breach by filing charges of their own.

"There's no question that legally they can, if they have the ability to charge; in other words, if Trump or any of his associates have committed a crime in a particular state," says Jennifer Rodgers, executive director of the Center for the Advancement of Public Integrity at Columbia University Law School.

As Trump's home state, New York has a potentially important role to play, says Rodgers, who previously worked at the U.S. Attorney's Office.

"If you're talking about New York state, I think the likelihood is pretty good that if a federal crime was committed here that a state crime will also have been committed, because the campaign was based here. So probably lots of their meetings and phone calls and other actions like that will have occurred here," Rodgers says. "So then you're just looking at whether state law provides an avenue to charge whatever it is that the feds would be charging."

Importantly, while the president can pardon people accused of federal crimes, he has no such power at the state level.

"If there is a prosecution by a state, whether it's New York or any other state, the president of the United States and his pardon power does not prevail," says former New York Attorney General Robert Abrams.

New York also has the power to shut down corporations headquartered in the state, including the Trump Organization, if they are found guilty of crimes, although such a move would be a legally drastic one.
...
"There are regular conference calls. Staffs are talking to each other all the time. We're dividing up work. And there's much more of an attitude of, 'Look, we're all in this together,' " Schneiderman says.

Fuck. Yes. (And emphasis mine.)

Related: Oil companies sued to pay for cost of rising sea levels, climate change (David Kravets for Ars Technica, Sept. 21, 2017)

At least five California municipalities are suing five major oil companies, claiming in public nuisance lawsuits that the firms should pay for the infrastructure costs associated with rising sea levels due to climate change.

The latest suits announced Wednesday by Oakland and San Francisco name BP, Chevron, ConocoPhillips, ExxonMobil, and Royal Dutch Shell. The cities claim the oil companies knew of the dangers of fossil-fuel-driven climate change but kept mum. The cities claim that global warming, which they say has melted ice sheets and heated sea water, has contributed to rising seas by about eight inches in California over the past decade. They say it could rise 10 feet by the year 2100.

"The bill has come due," San Francisco City Attorney Dennis Herrera said. "It's time for these companies to take responsibility."

San Francisco's suit (PDF) claims the oil companies went on a campaign for decades to fool the public.

Go state's rights! Go local lawyers! Go! Fight! WIN!
posted by filthy light thief at 2:16 PM on September 22, 2017 [55 favorites]

This is not a Trump created problem, but he now has the final say on whether the solar industry in the US will be crippled for the next four to eight years. The US International Trade Commission found in favor of a bankrupt solar panel manufacturer, Suniva, ruling that it and SolarWorld suffered injury due to cheap Chinese imports. This Greentech Media article states:

With respect to trade remedies, Suniva and SolarWorld are calling for duties of 40 cents per watt on imported cells and a floor price of 78 cents per watt on modules. If the commission approves the request, it could destroy 88,000 jobs in installation, sales and construction, according to estimates by the Solar Energy Industries Association (SEIA). Numbers from GTM Research are similarly bleak, showing that tens of gigawatts of solar installations could be wiped out compared to business as usual.

I've seen articles stating 72 GW vs. 25 GW solar installations by 2022 for business as usual vs. with the proposed solar tariffs. Remedy decisions to come November 13th, after which Trump will have 60 days to make a decision on the tariffs. While the loss of US manufacturing is not good, sacrificing solar industry jobs as a whole is not the way to help with that. And... well, climate change. The goal is to get to 100% renewable electricity. We can't afford to waste time. Solar very recently became cheaper than coal for utility scale projects, and looked set to take off exponentially in terms of installations.
posted by Mister Cheese at 2:22 PM on September 22, 2017 [5 favorites]

NPR: 10 Months After Election Day, Feds Tell States More About Russian Hacking. 10 months later and they're getting around to calling up state election officials and letting them know that Russia tried to break into their systems?
posted by zachlipton at 2:33 PM on September 22, 2017 [22 favorites]

I will also happily watch a 60-second clip of him climbing into Marine One and being whisked away on his final day in office.

I was at President Obama's first inauguration and seeing W leave in the helicopter was very, very satisfying.
posted by kirkaracha at 2:36 PM on September 22, 2017 [12 favorites]

lalex it's cool it was only WI, MI, and PA that got breached.

(/fake for now)
posted by Justinian at 2:38 PM on September 22, 2017 [11 favorites]

Trump was tweeting about Russian hoaxes yesterday. Kinda weird for a guy with direct access to this kind of information...
posted by PenDevil at 2:42 PM on September 22, 2017 [3 favorites]

Elections systems breached by Russian hackers is one of those things, like shit in oatmeal, where you really can't be satisfied with anything other than a 0% rate.
posted by zachlipton at 2:42 PM on September 22, 2017 [43 favorites]

"The good news is that, for the most part, most of the things that we saw attempted in 2016 were just that, attempts," he says. "There was nothing that impacted the voting tallies, as we said before, and for the most part these attempts were not successful in any intrusions into systems."

haha we're so pwned
posted by theodolite at 2:47 PM on September 22, 2017 [6 favorites]

For the most part, most of the officers on this Battlestar are not cylons
posted by theodolite at 2:49 PM on September 22, 2017 [38 favorites]

We completely removed that metastatic cancer... for the most part.
posted by Justinian at 2:50 PM on September 22, 2017 [7 favorites]

"The vast majority of American cities are not on fire."
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 2:51 PM on September 22, 2017 [13 favorites]

"The bank is pleased to report that nearly all of the burglars' attempts to breach the vault and remove all its contents were successfully prevented."
posted by contraption at 2:52 PM on September 22, 2017 [7 favorites]

These cylons in your oatmeal election mostly don't have bank shit on fire in the canc....

I can't keep up with these metaphors.
posted by mrgoat at 2:54 PM on September 22, 2017 [18 favorites]

Less than half of your house is infested with termites!
posted by cmfletcher at 2:54 PM on September 22, 2017 [5 favorites]

We know already that they were successful in hacking into voter registration databases in Arizona and Illinios, so that "for the most part" may not imply anything any MORE sinister than the sinister facts we already knew. Apparently they were not able to change in entries at the county level where it would have affected someone's ability to vote.

However, we also know that they tried to hack into VR systems, which makes voter registration database software for 7 states... including North Carolina, where there were anecdotal reports of people being told they weren't registered even though they showed their voter registration card. I don't think we know for sure whether they were successful at hacking into VR systems ("The NSA concluded it was "likely" that at least one of the employees' accounts was compromised") and if so what they would have done once they were in. I think that's still being investigated.
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:58 PM on September 22, 2017 [8 favorites]

In which Manafort's Russian buddy does not do him any favors in a conversation with Radio Free Europe:

Asked about his conversations with Manafort, Kilimnik told RFE/RL on September 21 that they discussed the U.S. election campaign, but he declined to describe the e-mail in detail or to say whether there was an effort to reach out to Deripaska.

"There were millions of emails. [...] we worked for 11 years. And we discussed a lot of issues, from Putin to women," Kilimnik said via text message.

"Of course we discussed trump and everything," he said in another message. "A lot of things. Our clients owe us money. Is there any violation of the law or proof of my work for KGB or whoever in those discussions?"

"On the political side there is no case that can be made about my involvement in the US elections," Kilimnik wrote in another September 21 message. "They are tough investigators and probably will get manafort for some financial crap. With that many years of international clients no one can be 100% clean."

posted by zachlipton at 3:00 PM on September 22, 2017 [12 favorites]

Aside from the Hatch Act hinkiness, it's seems...very odd...that the President and one of his Cabinet secretaries are openly backing different candidates in a senate primary.
posted by Chrysostom at 3:06 PM on September 22, 2017 [1 favorite]

I'm halfway thinking Trump goes rogue and endorses Moore tonight. He's the Trumpian candidate in the race. The only reason Trump's backing Strange is the establishment people in the WH and McConnell told him it'd help get things passed for him to sign and have "wins". But now that Trumpcare has (hopefully) died again, and he's had to be fairly normal for the last few weeks with the hurricanes, I expect craziness.
posted by chris24 at 3:12 PM on September 22, 2017 [5 favorites]

I called McCain's office today and gave him (not really that deserved) glowing praise for voicing his opposition to the Graham-Cassidy bill. Hopefully this will satisfy his pride and solidify his no stance.

Then I called Flake and gave McCain profusive praise while imploring Flake to do the right thing and vote no.

My family is like...the poster family for expanded Medicaid in Arizona. I’ve had and expensive pre-existing condition since childhood. I'm on Enbrel, which costs close to 4000 dollars a month without insurance. I'm a self employed artist/stay at home mom and my husband is in Nursing School after being laid off last year. Even when we had insurance through my husband's job, my condition cost us about 650 dollars a month - on top of our 600 dollar a month premiums. Things not related to my disease got ignored because we couldn't afford it. Right now, for the first time in years (maybe ever) everything is being taken care of. It feels so nice, for just a little while, to feel health safe.

So...I really hate phone calls, and have been seriously procrastinating (though I did email!) But I finally called them today and told them all of this.
posted by Lapin at 3:35 PM on September 22, 2017 [57 favorites]

I called McCain's office today and gave him (not really that deserved) glowing praise

Yeah, sometimes you just gotta bite the bullet and gush to Bill Mumy about how it's good you do that, it's really good and please don't send me to the cornfield...
posted by Justinian at 3:40 PM on September 22, 2017 [21 favorites]

zachlipton: Has Milo Yiannopoulos’s Berkeley Troll Circus Become a Fyre Festival for the Right? . . . It makes a good case that he was never serious at all. Putting out schedules with speakers that never agreed to come

Angus Johnston, a historian of student activism, thinks that's probable (he's worth following on Twitter). He thinks Milo's purpose was likely for 1. PR for his and Trump's base, and 2. trolling us. Listening to this interview crystallized for me, at a gut level, how very much many people's actions and words on the other side are pure kayfabe, designed to play on anger and fear.

We're fucked if we keep taking their apparently-normal actions or words at face value. People like Milo have consistently demonstrated no interest whatsoever in whether they might be wrong. Their words and actions are focused on 1. fueling bonds of tribal loyalty and perceived superiority, and 2. stoking fact-free anger, hatred, and violence against their supposedly anti-free-speech, anti-freedom, depraved, immoral, sub-human enemies (us).

My IRL circles are full of well-intentioned white people who have started trying to talk about racism, etc., with their own people. They're new to the art of discussing touchy topics and don't understand how subtly trolls or cultists can sap the will and hope out of you. Here's a quick test I've started recommending, to figure out if someone on the other side is reachable: "HOW do you know that that's true?" (Alternatively, "How do you check if your sources are accurate?" but that's too many words for some listeners.) If they're willing to step away from their feelings for long enough to thoughtfully consider, maybe they're reachable. If they just want to bask in lizard-brain rage, much engagement beyond "I disagree" is a waste of time and hope, is what I'm trying to get across to the newbies. (Got a critique of this tactic? MeMail me! Happy to discuss and learn.)
posted by cybercoitus interruptus at 3:43 PM on September 22, 2017 [19 favorites]

Metafilter: bask in lizard-brain rage, much engagement beyond "I disagree"
posted by Coventry at 3:47 PM on September 22, 2017 [4 favorites]

WSJ GOP Funds Donald Trump’s Defense in Russia Probe With Help From a Handful of Wealthy People

In April, billionaire Len Blavatnik gave $12,700 to the RNC’s legal fund, on top of donations of about $200,000 to other RNC accounts. He also gave the legal fund $100,000 in 2016, according to FEC filings.

The contribution from Mr. Blavatnik came during the Federal Bureau of Investigation’s probe of U.S. intelligence agencies’ findings of Russian meddling in the U.S. election, a month before the Justice Department appointed a special counsel to oversee its probe of Russian interference—which subsequently prompted Mr. Trump to hire a private legal team.

Moscow has denied interfering in the election. Mr. Trump has denied his campaign colluded with Russia and called the investigations a “witch hunt.”

Huh. Fancy that. A Russian Oligarch helping to pay DJT's legal fees.

About the Jet Setting Tom Price:

Politico Price traveled by private plane at least 24 times
HHS secretary chartered flights even to cities with frequent, inexpensive commercial options.

The Hill Price’s office defends jet use: Helps him connect to 'real American people'

Buzzfeed At Least Three Wealthy Trump Officials Used Private Jets For Government Work

WaPo HHS inspector general is investigating Price’s travel on private charter planes

Investigators will seek records of Price’s travel and review the justifications that he and his staff gave for the trips, the spokeswoman for HHS Inspector General Daniel R. Levinson said.

House Democrats wrote to Levinson, an appointee of President George W. Bush, on Wednesday requesting the investigation. They said the flights appeared to violate federal law designed to make sure executive branch officials use the most economical travel available.[...] Democrats have blasted Price’s use of private jets — some with plush leather chairs, kitchens and other amenities — as hypocritical at a time when he has sought deep budget cuts at the National Institutes of Health and a repeal of President Barack Obama’s Affordable Care

Meanwhile.....

@Maureen Groppe Flying commercial--spotted on the 4:00pm shuttle from New York to DC on Wednesday: Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross in First Class, Karen Pence getting her own bag out of the overhead and Fox News' Chris Wallace, according to a tipster.

Makes it sound like Mrs. Pence, AKA Mother, did not fly first class nor did she have any USSS or aides. Well we can't expect Wilbur Ross to get his velvet slippers dirty by flying coach, now can we.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:00 PM on September 22, 2017 [15 favorites]

In addition to calling (phones went straight to voice mail), I went to a protest at Cory Gardner's Colorado Springs office today and then talked to his staff about Graham-Cassidy and asked that he vote no. He had a bunch of charts at his town hall last month about premium increases on the individual market and how worried he is about that, so I asked how he plans to vote for legislation that allows insurers to increase premiums on folks with pre-existing conditions like both of my parents. I don't have compelling personal stories about health care and coverage for my immediate family, but this bill is as unconscionable as the ones that came before it, so I'm doing what I can.
posted by danielleh at 4:01 PM on September 22, 2017 [12 favorites]

Bloomberg Ivanka Trump Faces Courtroom Showdown Over $785 Sandals

Ivanka Trump wants nothing to do with the case, let alone a trial. She tried to duck a deposition by arguing she shouldn't be forced to testify because she isn’t involved in the design or sale of her company’s allegedly offending shoe.

“Trump was not aware of the Aquazzura style ‘Wild Thing’ shoe at the time she signed off on the season line that contained the Ivanka Trump style ‘Hettie’ shoe,” Saunders, her lawyer, argued in a letter to the judge. “The burden of a deposition of Ms. Trump would far outweigh any likely benefit to Aquazzura.” Saunders added that her role as a “high ranking government official” should preclude her from having to submit to a deposition. (Trump was appointed to be an assistant to her father in the White House).

Ah yes. She is so very important to the Nation that she cannot possibly take time out of her very hectic schedule of being of very great importance to the Nation in order to defend herself in court.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:04 PM on September 22, 2017 [35 favorites]

Makes it sound like Mrs. Pence, AKA Mother, did not fly first class nor did she have any USSS or aides. Well we can't expect Wilbur Ross to get his velvet slippers dirty by flying coach, now can we.

I hate her husband with the fire of a thousand suns but mad respect to Karen Pence for not abusing her privilege like that. When Biden wanted to take the train it took the sequester to finally convince the USSS to let him use Amtrak rather than taking AF2/Marine Two back to Wilmington.
posted by Talez at 4:07 PM on September 22, 2017 [22 favorites]

@Ben Jacobs Currently "Rocket Man" is playing before Trump rally in Alabama at venue named for the original rocket man, Wernher Von Braun

Politico New details cast doubt on why Tom Price needed a private jet

HHS Secretary Tom Price has been taking private jets because an unreliable commercial flight once forced him to cancel an important meeting, an HHS spokesperson says, part of his agenda to meet with average Americans outside of Washington.

But the flight in question — to a two-day industry conference at a Ritz-Carlton hotel in southern California — didn't get off the ground on a day when storms virtually shut down air traffic in the Washington region, preventing even private jets from getting out.

I intend to write a stack of postcards tomorrow demanding that pressure be put on the WH to fire his ass. He is an insider trader and an entitled ass who thinks he can swan around on the tax payer's dime because he is the HHS director.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:14 PM on September 22, 2017 [36 favorites]

In which someone at HHS leaks the 30 minute anti-leak training video they were made to watch to Chris Geidner.
posted by zachlipton at 4:34 PM on September 22, 2017 [23 favorites]

Luther Strange came up to the platform to Fortunate Son. What?
posted by fluttering hellfire at 5:02 PM on September 22, 2017 [5 favorites]

HHS says it will shut down healthcare.gov from 12am-12pm on every Sunday but one during open enrollment.

Um, that's not . . . how websites, like, work?

HHS regularly schedules maintenance outages for Healthcare.gov during open enrollment period, according to a spokesperson from the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Service. The spokesperson said the schedule was provided earlier this year “to accommodate requests from certified application assisters.”

"Certified application assisters"??

No. 100% Fuck You, Bullshit. You worthless, malevolent cowards.
posted by petebest at 5:10 PM on September 22, 2017 [42 favorites]

So Trump's approval rating has crept back up to 40% in aggregate. Are people so stupid that a few weeks without Trump saying that hey, white supremacists not so bad are enough to switch them back to approval?

Don't answer that, I already know.
posted by Justinian at 5:15 PM on September 22, 2017 [25 favorites]

Ok, candy cane tie, isolationist rhetoric, 'rocket man'. He's now openly threatening the DPRK with nuclear war. I'm going to get a beer.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 5:17 PM on September 22, 2017 [1 favorite]

Now he's dragging potential no voting republican senators. This is weird.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 5:25 PM on September 22, 2017

Um, that's not . . . how websites, like, work?

*puts envelope to turban*

"Blacks can't register for healthcare on the Sabbath"

*rips opens envelope*
*blows open envelope*
*takes out the card*
*reads card*

"The name of Tom Price's heavy metal cover band"
posted by Talez at 5:27 PM on September 22, 2017 [15 favorites]

I am still getting used to the fact that Luther Strange is a real politician and not a comic-book villain.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 5:29 PM on September 22, 2017 [24 favorites]

But Ben Jacobs also reports: Trump says of Strange: "He doesn't know Mitch McConnell at all"

So only people who don't know McConnell can stand up to him? I'm so confused. Is Moore in McConnell's pocket? But I seem to recall that McConnell was also backing Strange.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:29 PM on September 22, 2017

You think Price's private jet habit is ridiculous? EPA's Pruitt has an an 18 Person 24/7 Security Detail.

Pruitt’s request for a large security detail comes as he pushes for a 31 percent funding cut across the agency.

posted by zakur at 5:30 PM on September 22, 2017 [26 favorites]

You think Price's private jet habit is ridiculous? EPA's Pruitt has an an 18 Person 24/7 Security Detail.

I can only assume that somebody mentioned offhand to him that ELF on a shelf was coming back this Christmas and he crapped his pants.
posted by Talez at 5:32 PM on September 22, 2017 [4 favorites]

Hannah Levintova, Mother Jones: Putin Just Held a Meeting With Manafort’s Russian Billionaire Buddy

Via reddit/r/politics
posted by sebastienbailard at 5:34 PM on September 22, 2017 [4 favorites]

Wonder if Putin's punking us again.
posted by sebastienbailard at 5:34 PM on September 22, 2017 [1 favorite]

because in 2017 words have no meaning and nothing matters

If anyone is in possession of the silver key and needs help finding the gate upon the threshold, hit me up. Yog Sothoth's guidance would be a step up at this point.
posted by Slackermagee at 5:36 PM on September 22, 2017 [5 favorites]

But I seem to recall that McConnell was also backing Strange.

Yeah, Strange is the establishment backed candidate. McConnell's PAC has dumped a ton of cash to back Strange.
posted by Chrysostom at 5:40 PM on September 22, 2017

So first DJT says “I’ve already gotten rid of a few of them” about some of the people who work for him who support Roy Moore but then he says that Moore and Strange are both good people he will be back to campaign for Moore if Moore wins the primary.

Boy you are screwed if DJT is in your corner. He doesn't really understand how to rally for anyone other than himself. Come 2018 he is going to be a liability.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:41 PM on September 22, 2017 [3 favorites]

Oh man talk about your "Greatest Hits" not only is the crowd chanting "Lock her up" but DJT is now telling us how bad it is when 100lb bags of drugs hit you on the head when they are thrown over the wall.

Was it 100lbs before? I thought I remember it being 60. I do know the idea of someone tossing a 100lb bag of drugs up and over a wall has to be seen before I believe it. Maybe the next Iron Man Challenge?

Oh it's a catapult. Well that makes sense. When you want to send a really large bag of your drugs over to the other side to god knows who, you go with a catapult. Duh.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:47 PM on September 22, 2017 [6 favorites]

I have a 6ft privacy fence and a 40lb dog. Brb, building a trebuchet.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 5:49 PM on September 22, 2017 [25 favorites]

Jesus Christ, is that how he thinks drugs do damage?
posted by bibliowench at 5:49 PM on September 22, 2017 [8 favorites]

Trump: If you elect Strange, he will be not only good on policy but the tallest senator in U.S. history.

Size and ratings. That's all that matters, right? Although come to think of it DJT had the tallest FBI Director in his administration and he tossed him to the street. So size, ratings, and love of Trump is all that matters.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:51 PM on September 22, 2017 [1 favorite]

Trump: If you elect Strange...

I think we already did
posted by ian1977 at 5:52 PM on September 22, 2017 [12 favorites]

I am still getting used to the fact that Luther Strange is a real politician and not a comic-book villain.

Remember in 2008 when Marvel Comics wouldn't let Stephen Colbert be President because the President in the Marvel universe is always the same as the one in our universe, so they don't have things like crazed supervillains becoming President?

They should've just let Colbert be President.
posted by ckape at 5:55 PM on September 22, 2017 [16 favorites]

Trump: “Isnt it weird when a guy who lives on 5th Ave in the most beautiful apartment you’ve ever seen comes to Alabama & Alabama loves him”

Trump: I feel like I'm from Alabama frankly

What a hoot n' a holler. Little ole golden toilet boy gonna start eatin grits pretty soon, I'm sure.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:56 PM on September 22, 2017 [14 favorites]

I think we already did

Not to the Senate, he was appointed.
posted by Chrysostom at 6:01 PM on September 22, 2017

National Treasure Alexandra Petri, WaPo: Some reviews of the first line of the first chapter of Hillary Clinton’s ‘What Happened’

And some actual reviews of the book... and, ok, one joke review...

What Happened by Hillary Rodham Clinton review – no twinge of remorse

In common with everyone who is likely to read this review, I grieved when Hillary Clinton lost the election last November. Now there is an extra reason for regret: with time on her hands, the woman who was so qualified to be an able, diligent, clear-headed president has hastily written – or presided over the writing of – an unreflective book that in its combination of number-crunching wonkery and strenuously pious uplift reveals more than she might have intended about why she lost. Her bewilderment is easy to understand, but couldn’t she have waited before monetising failure and relaunching her brand with a nationwide book tour?

Hillary Clinton Will Never Understand What Happened

What remains just out of Clinton’s reach across the books nearly 500 pages is that, just maybe, it was her and her husband’s politics that have been the problem all along... After a career built on steadfastly upholding the status quo, Clinton didn’t share the anger of the people she sought to govern, because, to her, the state of the U.S. is not something to be angry about.

What Should Have Happened In Hillary Clinton’s Useless Book

This is why I can’t entirely agree with the chorus of people who rushed to condemn What Happened, Hillary Clinton’s “intimate view” of what it was like to go up against Trump in the 2016 election. On the left, a quick consensus formed: Clinton lost; she has nothing useful to say anymore and never did; she needs to shut up and go away immediately. It’s not really so clear. Hers is a strange story in an increasingly strange world. It’s one that needs telling. And as her die-hard defenders proclaimed, Clinton can write a book if she wants, and nobody gets to stop her. They’re not wrong. She has every right to write a book about the election. But not this book. Nobody should ever be allowed to write a book like this.

Will Hillary ever forgive us?

If you're wondering if Clinton takes responsibility for anything in this book, she absolutely does: She takes responsibility for being too smart and too good for the rest of us. Clinton confesses that her "instinctive response is to talk about how we can fix things," but people were simply too angry to listen.

Clinton Already Working On Follow-Up Book Casting Blame For Failures Of First
posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 6:01 PM on September 22, 2017 [5 favorites]

He's going to be leading "lock her up" chants right to re-election in 2020 isn't he
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:03 PM on September 22, 2017 [2 favorites]

Meanwhile back at Grandpa Joe's story time.....

Trump now going over his election victory state by state.

Trump: The Electoral College is a very special thing

Trump says of the Electoral College "I've never really been in favor of it but now I appreciate it"

Trump: Just in case you are curious, Russia did not help me.

Trump is now asking the crowd "any Russians in the audience?"

I have to admit that last one broke me. I'm now laughing so hard my throat hurts. I wonder what he would do if there WERE Russians in the audience? Ask them for a loan?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:06 PM on September 22, 2017 [9 favorites]

Pruitt’s request for a large security detail comes as he pushes for a 31 percent funding cut across the agency.

In fairness, Pruitt's going to earn that security detail. Price is going to have to share credit with Congress for the deaths on their watch.
posted by sebastienbailard at 6:07 PM on September 22, 2017

Any articles on if the fake news/russian meddling actually convinced folks to switch votes from Hillary to Trump or convince the undecided to support Trump? I mean, racists gonna do racists stuff and keep voting the same way in the end. I just hope the dems don't think all they need to do is try to sanitize the news flow and the midterms or 2020 is theirs for the picking.
posted by asra at 6:11 PM on September 22, 2017 [1 favorite]

Trump is Shitty Hoxha.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 6:11 PM on September 22, 2017 [3 favorites]

Trump says the heads of major companies are coming up to him and hugging him and kissing him.

I want names, damn it.

Trump: "China, who I love right now..."

Was there some news I haven't heard about? Did China Erect a golden tower in his honor or something?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:19 PM on September 22, 2017

@Ben Jacobs Trump has been speaking for well over an hour and the crowd here in Huntsville is clearly thinning

I've had enough myself. I'm off to bed to watch some good TV. Thank God I'm not stuck in a rally in Alabama having to listen to old Grandpa Joe relive his glory days.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:26 PM on September 22, 2017 [1 favorite]

Well Flake just came out as a definitive yes. . Light his phones.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 6:30 PM on September 22, 2017 [3 favorites]

I will begrudgingly give him one thing he got right, Luther Strange is a giant man.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 6:38 PM on September 22, 2017

"The percentage of success is high" ...talking about US missile defense.

He doesn't seem to realize it only takes one.

Of course Alabama will be cheering when San Fran or Seattle gets hit, so he's playing to the right audience.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:39 PM on September 22, 2017 [1 favorite]

Hillary lost because far too many Americans prefer a crook who sexually assaults women and hurts everyone in his reach to a woman who refuses to disguise or apologize for her intelligence and competence. These reviewers can fuck the fuck off.
posted by um at 6:43 PM on September 22, 2017 [83 favorites]

Narrator: It wasn't high.

The painful history of Ground-based Mid-course Defense (GMD) — which, as GAO notes, has cost $123 billion since 2002 — now stands at nine successful tests out of 18 since 1999, exactly 50 percent.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:44 PM on September 22, 2017 [6 favorites]

Luther Strange came up to the platform to Fortunate Son. What?

He's that drunk on the end of the bar who insists to anyone who will listen that he actually wrote "Bell Bottom Blues" and never got credit.

This actually really happened to me.
posted by spitbull at 6:48 PM on September 22, 2017 [3 favorites]

you really never got credit?
posted by mabelstreet at 6:50 PM on September 22, 2017 [29 favorites]

Not to the Senate, he was appointed

I meant trump
posted by ian1977 at 6:51 PM on September 22, 2017 [1 favorite]

WSJ GOP Funds Donald Trump’s Defense in Russia Probe With Help From a Handful of Wealthy People
In April, billionaire Len Blavatnik gave $12,700 to the RNC’s legal fund, on top of donations of about $200,000 to other RNC accounts. He also gave the legal fund $100,000 in 2016, according to FEC filings.
We heard about Leonid "Len" Blavatnik last month in a Dallas Morning News scoop: GOP Campaigns Took $7.35 Million from Oligarch linked to Russia

Donald Trump and the political action committees for Mitch McConnell, Marco Rubio, Scott Walker, Lindsey Graham, John Kasich and John McCain accepted $7.35 million in contributions from a Ukrainian-born oligarch who is the business partner of two of Russian president Vladimir Putin's favorite oligarchs and a Russian government bank.

During the 2015-2016 election season, Ukrainian-born billionaire Leonid "Len" Blavatnik contributed $6.35 million to leading Republican candidates and incumbent senators. Mitch McConnell was the top recipient of Blavatnik's donations, collecting $2.5 million for his GOP Senate Leadership Fund under the names of two of Blavatnik's holding companies, Access Industries and AI Altep Holdings, according to Federal Election Commission documents and OpenSecrets.org.

Marco Rubio's Conservative Solutions PAC and his Florida First Project received $1.5 million through Blavatnik's two holding companies. Other high dollar recipients of funding from Blavatnik were PACS representing Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker at $1.1 million, South Carolina Senator Lindsey Graham at $800,000, Ohio Governor John Kasich at $250,000 and Arizona Senator John McCain at $200,000.{...}

Blavatnik's relationships with Russian oligarchs close to Putin, particularly Oleg Deripaska, should be worrisome for Trump and the six GOP leaders who took Blavatnik's money during the 2016 presidential campaign. Lucky for them no one has noticed. Yet.

(And Oxford University and the Victoria & Albert Museum are now in hot water for taking money from Blavatnik.)
posted by Doktor Zed at 6:52 PM on September 22, 2017 [14 favorites]

No, I met the guy who claimed he wrote BBB. It was such a specific and weird thing to claim.

Anyway when you're a bar musician you hear shit.
posted by spitbull at 6:52 PM on September 22, 2017 [2 favorites]

Luther Strange came up to the platform to Fortunate Son. What?

The Circle Jerks cover? Or would that just be too on the nose....

In other news: Army of trolls besieging Freeman
posted by Buntix at 7:02 PM on September 22, 2017

And you may ask yourself, "Who is the Luther Strange?"

Presented without further comment or ado:

Luther Strange was born in Birmingham, Alabama, and lived in Sylacauga until the age of six, when his family moved to Homewood.

Strange graduated from Shades Valley High School in 1971. He received his undergraduate degree from Tulane University, where he was a scholarship reserve basketball player nicknamed "The Big Bunny" (according to a former teammate posting to social media). He then graduated from Tulane University Law School. Strange was admitted to the Alabama State Bar in 1981.

. . . As Alabama Attorney General, Strange sued the federal government several times, over such issues as a U.S. Department of Justice and U.S. Department of Education directive on the treatment of transgender students[8] and changes in the U.S. Department of the Interior's calculation of Gulf of Mexico offshore drilling royalties.[9]

Strange also joined a suit brought by some states against the federal government that challenged the Obama administration's Clean Power Plan.[10] Along with other Republican state attorneys general, Strange "came to the defense of ExxonMobil when it fell under investigation by attorneys general from states seeking information about whether the oil giant failed to disclose material information about climate change" (see ExxonMobil climate change controversy).[11]

posted by petebest at 7:05 PM on September 22, 2017 [2 favorites]

And you may ask yourself, "Who is the Luther Strange?"

And you may find him living in a shotgun shack!

And you may ask yourself "Is he right? Is he wrong?"
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:26 PM on September 22, 2017 [33 favorites]

I certainly ask myself "how did I get here?" all the time.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 7:32 PM on September 22, 2017 [49 favorites]

MY GOD, WHAT HAVE I DONE!!!

Never occurs to them sadly...
posted by Windopaene at 7:55 PM on September 22, 2017 [13 favorites]

Same as it ever was.

I want to see other R's coming out with strong NOes before I give anyone accolades on it. I mean, jfc. We've done this more than 70 times. THAT IS NOT NORMAL.
posted by fluffy battle kitten at 7:55 PM on September 22, 2017 [13 favorites]

Less than 70, but here's a chart of the top 40...

The insane news cycle of Trump's presidency in 1 chart [Axios]
posted by Buntix at 8:06 PM on September 22, 2017 [6 favorites]

By the way "Bell Bottom Blues" was written by Eric Clapton and Bobby Whitlock.

Or was it?
posted by spitbull at 8:52 PM on September 22, 2017 [1 favorite]

I made a thread for What Happened by Hillary Clinton.

only rule is you have to read all the links first.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 9:18 PM on September 22, 2017 [15 favorites]

Your thread was quite lovely until people started commenting. Now it's sad.
posted by zachlipton at 10:29 PM on September 22, 2017 [24 favorites]

More of EPA Administrator Scott Pruitt's plan to destroy the environment:

Within hours of meeting with a mining company CEO, the new head of the US Environmental Protection Agency directed his staff to withdraw a plan to protect the watershed of Bristol Bay, Alaska, one of the most valuable wild salmon fisheries on Earth, according to interviews and government emails obtained by CNN.

...Former EPA officials under the Obama administration expressed shock at how the decision was handled.

"That's incredible -- and very disappointing," Dennis McLerran, the former regional EPA administrator overseeing Bristol Bay and Alaska, said after reviewing some of the EPA's internal communications on the project. "The professionals, the career staff at EPA, the scientists put a tremendous amount of time and energy and effort into making sure that the decisions that we made were well grounded, that they were grounded in sound science."

McLerran called the revelations "stunning" and "unlike anything I've ever seen."

posted by darkstar at 11:41 PM on September 22, 2017 [31 favorites]

I don't see links here to what Cheetoh Mussolini said in reference to Colin Kaepernick, but it's all over the net so I'm sure nobody will miss it.

I'm so angry. I am so fucking angry all the time anymore.
And I don't think I will ever be able to forgive anyone who voted for this asshole.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 11:45 PM on September 22, 2017 [40 favorites]

"The percentage of success is high" ...talking about US missile defense.

He doesn't seem to realize it only takes one.

After all the lies about the efficacy of earlier missile defense systems, I wouldn't believe him anyway. It seems like something someone ought to get right eventually, but I won't believe it until the system is put through a very public and demonstrably hostile test.
posted by Coventry at 11:46 PM on September 22, 2017 [1 favorite]

Direct Raytheon and Lockheed to shoot missiles at each others' factories, last one standing gets the contract.
posted by ryanrs at 12:24 AM on September 23, 2017 [23 favorites]

> I think that thread is where it's finally confirmed that zach and I are not, in fact, the same person ;)

That's how you want us to think!
posted by runcifex at 12:35 AM on September 23, 2017 [2 favorites]

Trump says "Melania really wanted to be with us" while she's literally standing right next to him. Unreal.

if you watch the whole video instead of the deliberately edited clip you'll hear the entire sentence, and see Melania nodding assent. "Melania really wanted to be with us, it's really touched her heart what happened." he was explaining her presence in an attempt to illustrate a probably non-existent compassion on her part.

i find left wing bullshit to be more odious than right wing bullshit. please stop it.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 1:01 AM on September 23, 2017 [47 favorites]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but where has McCain's courage been for the last decade or two? If it literally takes brain cancer and imminent death to find their courage and get a Republican to do the right thing, I have to shudder. We can't afford to wait for them all to get brain cancer.

yeah, the mccain love i'm seeing on facebook is sickening. look, the fuckhead believes in God. the fuckhead knows he's dying, he's gonna meet his Maker very soon. he's just trying to mitigate a career in the party of fuck you i got mine.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 1:09 AM on September 23, 2017 [4 favorites]

“Isnt it weird when a guy who lives on 5th Ave in the most beautiful apartment you’ve ever seen comes to Alabama & Alabama loves him”

"Farm livin' is the life for me. / Land spreadin' out so far and wide / Keep Manhattan, just give me that countryside."

I'm sure Arnold Ziffel is rolling over in his grave.
posted by LeLiLo at 1:35 AM on September 23, 2017 [7 favorites]

Come for the NYT breakdown of Trump's week-long actions at the U.N., stay for the depiction of Trump grinning at the SK guy's use of the word 'deplorable' to describe NK and how Trump goes on to claim 'deplorable' was a very lucky word for him, because of the election

You know, the horrible thing about the whole health care debacle, I mean in addition to how close we're getting to the abyss, is how it really has nothing to do with Trump, aside from the fact he's so fucking stupid that he didn't help the bill's chances.

So not only do we have these fuckers in the GOP, we have Trump himself. It's like when you think you've woken up from a nightmare and you're still dreaming and it's another nightmare.

I know I'm being Captain Obvious here, but sometimes I just freak out over this shit.
posted by angrycat at 3:08 AM on September 23, 2017 [10 favorites]

oh gosh Trump's ending tweets with "sad" again this morning. Every time he does that I hear it in Andy Serkis's Gollum voice
posted by angrycat at 4:14 AM on September 23, 2017 [19 favorites]

the fuckhead knows he's dying, he's gonna meet his Maker very soon.

"oh, dear lord"

"you can just call me charlie - and i ain't the lord"
posted by pyramid termite at 4:27 AM on September 23, 2017 [2 favorites]

We hates the tricksy Democrats!
posted by Biblio at 4:27 AM on September 23, 2017 [11 favorites]

Every time he does that I hear it in Andy Serkis's Gollum voice

Your wish is my command!
posted by Servo5678 at 5:47 AM on September 23, 2017 [8 favorites]

Well he's doubling down on attacking athletes this morning.

Hmm, I wonder what was on FOX and Friends today?

This is what government by a white supremacist looks like.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:13 AM on September 23, 2017 [33 favorites]

I can’t figure out why Trump didn’t say anything when Tom Brady didn’t go to the White House with the Pats. So confusing. I wish things were clearer, more black and white.
posted by chris24 at 6:30 AM on September 23, 2017 [79 favorites]

U.S. Code › Title 18 › Part I › Chapter 11 › Section 227

Wrongfully influencing a private entity’s employment decisions by a Member of Congress or an officer or employee of the legislative or executive branch

(a) Whoever, being a covered government person, with the intent to influence, solely on the basis of partisan political affiliation, an employment decision or employment practice of any private entity—

(1) takes or withholds, or offers or threatens to take or withhold, an official act, or

(2) influences, or offers or threatens to influence, the official act of another,

shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for not more than 15 years, or both, and may be disqualified from holding any office of honor, trust, or profit under the United States.

(b) In this section, the term “covered government person” means—

(1) a Senator or Representative in, or a Delegate or Resident Commissioner to, the Congress;

(2) an employee of either House of Congress; or

(3) the President, Vice President, an employee of the United States Postal Service or the Postal Regulatory Commission, or any other executive branch employee (as such term is defined under section 2105 of title 5, United States Code).
posted by elsietheeel at 6:31 AM on September 23, 2017 [21 favorites]

(a) Whoever, being a covered government person, with the intent to influence, solely on the basis of partisan political affiliation, an employment decision or employment practice of any private entity—

See, he didn't tell the NFL to fire them because they're Democrats, it was because they're black. Totally different! And not against the law!
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:42 AM on September 23, 2017 [9 favorites]

U.S. Code › Title 18 › Part I › Chapter 13 › Section 241

Conspiracy against rights

If two or more persons conspire to injure, oppress, threaten, or intimidate any person in any State, Territory, Commonwealth, Possession, or District in the free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege secured to him by the Constitution or laws of the United States, or because of his having so exercised the same; or

If two or more persons go in disguise on the highway, or on the premises of another, with intent to prevent or hinder his free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege so secured—

They shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and if death results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include kidnapping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual abuse or an attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to kill, they shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for any term of years or for life, or both, or may be sentenced to death.
posted by elsietheeel at 6:56 AM on September 23, 2017 [4 favorites]

A couple of things Trump said in his speech last night-- "If you elect Strange, he will be not only good on policy but the tallest Senator in U.S. history." and "He (Strange) doesn't know Mitch McConnell." leads me to believe that Trump doesn't know that Strange is a sitting Senator. Now I know that DJT is profoundly, deeply ignorant but if you were going to hold a rally for some guy you would think you would know the barest minimum about him. DJT only seems to know Strange's height.

My favorite line from last night was when DJT said the Alabama governor told him that Alabama took in in 17 million displaced people after the hurricanes. Alabama's population is just under 5 million, so you would think that great an increase would be impossible but all things are possible with Trump.

Finally, I read from a couple of sources that the crowd was getting noticeably thinner before Trump finished his extra-long speech (1 hour, 23 min.) I don't understand the mindset of people queuing up for hours to get into see DJT but getting bored before he finishes speaking. Do you think these people just did it for the novelty and the novelty wore off? Are they there for the "Lock her up chants" but quickly bored once it just becomes an old guy rambling on stage? It's like spending a lot of time and money to hear a favorite band playing but leaving before they finish their set.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:57 AM on September 23, 2017 [27 favorites]

I'll acknowledge that we (seem to be, no guarantees) keeping the ACA because of his vote. But where was he before this? You can't undo a lifetime of evil with a single vote. Or even two.

I'm a Catholic, so I believe, deeply, that repentance can happen at any time. I used to struggle with this - "you mean anyone can live a horrible life and as long as they're sincerely repentant they get off free? How is this fair?" But I've come to understand there are really good reasons to allow for the possibility of repentance, both in religion and more importantly for this particular discussion, in life.

McCain is trying to repent for his errors, whether to his Maker or the American people, and believes them correctable before he reaches his end. This is fine. This is good for us. If the possibility of repentance was lost to him, we would not be seeing these reversals, this holding firm while his long time friends beg him in vain in phone call after phone call. We are gaining, in essence, because John McCain believes in the possibility of repentance, because enough people around him believe in the possibility of repentance.

So yes. I believe in letting politicians publicly repent. I believe in letting them take actions that prove that repentance. I think we should encourage all of them to repent, to come to a place where they are honest and true and hold up their responsibilities to constituents as a task to take seriously. I just hope there are a lot more of them.
posted by corb at 7:17 AM on September 23, 2017 [31 favorites]

guys it's absurd to think russia was able to hack our election systems; why, they're so vital to functioning democracy, they've got to be as hard to hack as credit agencies
posted by entropicamericana at 7:29 AM on September 23, 2017 [12 favorites]

If the possibility of repentance was lost to him, we would not be seeing these reversals, this holding firm while his long time friends beg him in vain in phone call after phone call

Is it too much to ask that our representatives do right by us without hanging the decision on a magical scapegoat?
posted by a box and a stick and a string and a bear at 7:32 AM on September 23, 2017 [3 favorites]

I think that thread is where it's finally confirmed that zach and I are not, in fact, the same person ;)

Sure, sure, awfully convenient to have different opinions in that thread, not suspicious at all
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:39 AM on September 23, 2017 [7 favorites]

Is it too much to ask that our representatives do right by us without hanging the decision on a magical scapegoat?

It isn't but what's done is done. Even if there is no magical scapegoat why would you ever want to discourage someone doing good things out of a sense of contrition? Do you really want them to just keep being a dick so you can be mad and spiteful?
posted by Talez at 7:47 AM on September 23, 2017 [7 favorites]

I'm a Catholic, so I believe, deeply, that repentance can happen at any time. I used to struggle with this - "you mean anyone can live a horrible life and as long as they're sincerely repentant they get off free? How is this fair?" But I've come to understand there are really good reasons to allow for the possibility of repentance, both in religion and more importantly for this particular discussion, in life.

So I was raised Catholic--and have a fondness for Sisters and nuns, especially--and my understanding of repentance involves recognizing the error to those you've wronged, taking corrective action, and then not doing the thing again. I'm down with that kind of repentance--what I really struggle with is the kind of repentance that does involve recognizing the error of your ways to the wronged and/or continuing to do the bad thing.

McCain is trying to repent for his errors, whether to his Maker or the American people, and believes them correctable before he reaches his end. This is fine. This is good for us.

Agreed. Any action to resist this terrible bill is a plus for the vast majority of us. However, for me to think he was really repenting for some of the awful actions of his career, he'd really have to recognize publicly that they were wrong.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 8:09 AM on September 23, 2017 [14 favorites]

Trump ‘withdraws’ White House invitation to NBA’s Stephen Curry — after star says ‘I don’t want to go’ (Tom Boggioni, Raw Story)

Less than 24 hours after Trump called former NFL quarterback Colin Kaepernick a “son of a b*tch,” Trump went after the popular Curry who had indicated that he might not attend a White House ceremony celebrating the NBA champion Warriors.

[...]

Going to the White House is considered a great honor for a championship team.Stephen Curry is hesitating,therefore invitation is withdrawn!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) September 23, 2017

Meanwhile....

‘We will never back down’: NFL Players Association rips Trump over Kaepernick ‘son of a b*tch’ slur (Bob Brigham, Raw Story)

And....

‘Divisive and disrespectful’: NFL commissioner Goodell slaps down Trump over Kaepernick ‘son of b*tch’ slur (Tom Boggioni, Raw Story)
posted by Room 641-A at 8:18 AM on September 23, 2017 [37 favorites]

C'mon Vikings. You would get so many cool points if you signed Kaepernick. Much needed cool points.
posted by Bacon Bit at 8:31 AM on September 23, 2017 [3 favorites]

The same Vikings that ended Kluwe's career because he was for marriage equality?
posted by fluttering hellfire at 8:39 AM on September 23, 2017 [15 favorites]

Ugh, yeah. See thread title.
posted by Bacon Bit at 8:41 AM on September 23, 2017 [6 favorites]

Lebron weighs in.

@KingJames
U bum @StephenCurry30 already said he ain't going! So therefore ain't no invite. Going to White House was a great honor until you showed up!
posted by chris24 at 8:58 AM on September 23, 2017 [113 favorites]

> U bum @StephenCurry30 already said he ain't going! So therefore ain't no invite. Going to White House was a great honor until you showed up!

From way downtown... BANG!
posted by tonycpsu at 9:00 AM on September 23, 2017 [20 favorites]

"U bum" is perfect.
posted by LobsterMitten at 9:04 AM on September 23, 2017 [20 favorites]

LeBron the real GOAT

(no, seriously, Michal Jordan built his entire life off polite non-confrontation, he never would have done this)
posted by mightygodking at 9:06 AM on September 23, 2017 [9 favorites]

And boom goes the dynamite.
posted by dirigibleman at 9:10 AM on September 23, 2017 [7 favorites]

‘Divisive and disrespectful’: NFL commissioner Goodell slaps down Trump over Kaepernick ‘son of b*tch’ slur

"slaps down" ...by not mentioning his name, or the controversy.

"Mr. Goodell what are your thoughts on the President telling your league who to hire and fire based on race?"
"The NFL is so great, isn't it great when everyone respects the NFL and watches together on Sundays?"
"...is that your whole response?"
"Give me 30 billion dollars for 30 brand new stadiums."
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:18 AM on September 23, 2017 [10 favorites]

Why is it that Trump is getting away with doing absolutely nothing for the victims of three hurricanes while just one Katrina ruined W? It's really confounding to someone like me who is looking at it from the outside.
posted by mumimor at 9:24 AM on September 23, 2017 [37 favorites]

Perhaps worse is Trump's insistence that NFL rule changes to reduce brain injuries are "ruining the game." This comes on the same day that a post-mortem exam showed that Aaron Hernandez suffered from CTE, chronic traumatic encephalopathy, from his years of playing football.

Trump wants his public entertainment as violent as possible. "Release the lions!" he says from his golden throne in the colosseum.
posted by JackFlash at 9:30 AM on September 23, 2017 [14 favorites]

Well the people ain't getting bread so we're gonna need more violent circuses.
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:33 AM on September 23, 2017 [9 favorites]

Why is it that Trump is getting away with doing absolutely nothing for the victims of three hurricanes while just one Katrina ruined W?

My theory is that it was a kind of backlash that built up after 9/11 & Patriot Act & bullshit WMD Iraq invasion. A lot of people fell in line after 9/11 to an extent that they probably would not have otherwise. It's not that these elements and Katrina are directly related, but there was a lot of suppressed frustration and anger during that time. Katrina was the last straw. Not married to this idea, but it is something that has come to mind in the years since then.
posted by Golem XIV at 9:40 AM on September 23, 2017 [7 favorites]

VIRGINIA HOUSE ELECTIONS - HD 76-80

intro
1-5
6-10
11-15
16-20
21-25
26-30
31-35
36-40
41-45
46-50
51-55
56-60
61-65
66-70
71-75

===

76th District
Currently GOP seat
R cand: Chris Jones (incumbent)
D cand: none

Semi-rural district outside Norfolk, 68.3% white. Incumbent first elected in 1997. No D candidate in 2013 or 2015. Trump won district 52-44.

===

77th District
Currently Dem seat
R cand: none
D cand: Cliff Hayes (incumbent)

Rural district outside Norfolk, 33.4% white. Incumbent first elected in 2016 special. No R candidate in 2013 or 2015. Clinton won district 73-24. There is a Green candidate.

===

78th District
Currently GOP seat
R cand: Jay Leftwich (incumbent)
D cand: none

Rural district outside Norfolk, 75.5% white. Incumbent first elected in 2013. R won 57-39 in 2013, no D candidate in 2015. Trump won district 57-38.

===

79th District
Currently Dem seat
R cand: none
D cand: Steve Heretick (incumbent)

Portsmouth, 60.1% white. Incumbent first elected in 2015. No R candidate in 2013 or 2015. Clinton won district 59-35.

===

80th District
Currently Dem seat
R cand: none
D cand: Matthew James (incumbent)

Portsmouth, 35.8% white. Incumbent first elected in 2009. No R candidate in 2013 or 2015. Clinton won district 72-24.

===

Next time: 81-85
posted by Chrysostom at 9:40 AM on September 23, 2017 [21 favorites]

Excommunicated Cardinal: "So I was raised Catholic-"

Epony-obvious.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:45 AM on September 23, 2017 [30 favorites]

Well the people ain't getting bread so we're gonna need more violent circuses.

Is that a lyric from the next ICP album
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:55 AM on September 23, 2017 [8 favorites]

Why is it that Trump is getting away with doing absolutely nothing for the victims of three hurricanes while just one Katrina ruined W? It's really confounding to someone like me who is looking at it from the outside.

mumimor, read this: 'Everything is gone': Americans return to their flooded homes SLG
posted by glasseyes at 9:56 AM on September 23, 2017 [3 favorites]

I don't really care what happens to McCain after he dies, plus I'm a UU and we don't believe in hell anyway. If he stops being murderously callous for any reason, that's a good thing, and I'll take it, but i will not then act like his previous callousness didn't cause harm. I still don't trust him not to revert, either.
posted by emjaybee at 9:58 AM on September 23, 2017 [4 favorites]

D cand: none

Now I may be a simple country chicken lawyer, but, but, BKAaw! It seems that the none candidates are at a slight disadvantage on accout of there no one bein' there. Mmm hmmm.
posted by petebest at 10:06 AM on September 23, 2017 [8 favorites]

mumimor, read this: 'Everything is gone': Americans return to their flooded homes SLG

Yeah, I read it, that is why I asked. I didn't post the link because some people in the comments to that article said the selection of interviewees in the article was very biased towards the standard narrative of idiot Trump voters, which in many ways reenforces Trump's narrative of the rubes against the elites. Since I'm not American, I hesitate when people say that. And I also wonder about the role of the media in this whole thing. It's very obvious that even liberal media like the Guardian or NYtimes are in some ways strengthening Trump. Today I saw a headline somewhere that WOO, Kimmel had talked with the Democratic leadership, as if that was a bad thing. Journalists out there: that is not being balanced, that is being a tool.
posted by mumimor at 10:09 AM on September 23, 2017 [11 favorites]

Why is it that Trump is getting away with doing absolutely nothing for the victims of three hurricanes while just one Katrina ruined W?

Is there a swing vote for Trump left? I think everyone has already pretty much made up their minds. Bush had a lot of goodwill (undeserved) because 9/11, etc. It took a combo of the Iraq war really sucking and Katrina to deflate that.
posted by dis_integration at 10:11 AM on September 23, 2017 [4 favorites]

Charles Pierce: Bernie Sanders Just Gave His Best Speech in 2 Years: He established liberal internationalism as a coherent foreign policy.
posted by homunculus at 10:19 AM on September 23, 2017 [17 favorites]

Ah, fair point for concern. In the light of which it would be interesting to have the journalist's criteria for interviewing. But if it turned out to be a truly random sample, what could be inferred?
Some of those attitudes are so very far from what a Western European would expect to hear I'm afraid I assumed the interviewer was as nonplussed as I am.
posted by glasseyes at 10:48 AM on September 23, 2017 [1 favorite]

This is the first I'm hearing about the "debate" between Sanders/Klobuchar and Graham/Cassidy.

If this is this an attempt to get Amy Klobuchar onto the national stage, I can get behind that (and can also get behind anything Bernie does to steer the spotlight toward other left-leaning Democrats).
posted by schmod at 10:55 AM on September 23, 2017 [4 favorites]

petebest: "Now I may be a simple country chicken lawyer, but, but, BKAaw! It seems that the none candidates are at a slight disadvantage on accout of there no one bein' there. "

That's true! Dems should be contesting every seat down to dogcatcher. It's also true that:

a) the Democrats are contesting WAY more seats this time than in 2015 - 12 uncontested GOP seats versus 44 in 2015;
b) the Dems did a better job contesting than the GOP - there are 28 uncontested Dem-held seats;
c) there are a couple of recruiting fails, but most of the 12 seats were really pro-Trump districts. The average was Trump +33, the very least was +8.
posted by Chrysostom at 11:03 AM on September 23, 2017 [15 favorites]

Klobuchar also has relevant experience; per Wikipedia:

Klobuchar's first foray into politics came after she gave birth and was forced to leave the hospital 24 hours later, a situation exacerbated by the fact that Klobuchar's daughter was born with a condition where she could not swallow. That experience led Klobuchar to appear before the Minnesota State Legislature advocating for a bill that would guarantee new mothers a 48-hour hospital stay. Minnesota passed the bill and President Clinton later made the policy into a federal law.

posted by melissasaurus at 11:04 AM on September 23, 2017 [30 favorites]

NBA Trumpdate: LeBron opened the floodgates.

Chris Paul: With everything that's going on in our country, why are YOU focused on who's kneeling and visiting the White House??? #StayInYoLane... And I doubt he's man enough to call any of those players a son of a bitch to their face...

Bradley Beal: How you gonna withdraw an invite that somebody already said they weren't attending? 🤔🤡

Damian Lillard: "I don't want to spend the night at your house " ... "ok well you can't spend the night at my house anymore"

Kobe Bryant: A #POTUS whose name alone creates division and anger. Whose words inspire dissension and hatred can't possibly "Make America Great Again"

Draymond Green: Still wondering how this guy is running our country.... 🤔🤔🤔

Magic Johnson: Golden State players are champions and men of principle who give back to their community. #respect

CJ Watson: Stand for something or fall for anything✊🏾

JR Smith: @BarackObama we need you back ASAP

and David West tweeted this image-excerpt from William C. Turner.
posted by mightygodking at 11:07 AM on September 23, 2017 [88 favorites]

Some more details on Klobuchar's awesomeness from this 2010 article in Elle:

Amy's only child was born with a condition that kept her from being able to swallow. For three years she had to be fed through a stomach tube. But 24 hours after she was born, "they threw me out of the hospital, which is horrible even if your baby's not sick," Amy recalls, sipping a glass of chardonnay with a group of women after the Eastcliff speech. That was when she, then "just" a working mom, albeit a corporate lawyer mom, used her lawyer contacts to get an audience before the state legislature and successfully lobbied Minnesota to pass one of the first laws in the country guaranteeing new moms and their babies a 48-hour hospital stay. Her first foray into governance was quite a success: President Clinton later made it a federal law. "I had to go and testify about things like your water breaking," she says, "so I told them very detailed things to make them feel squeamish so they'd pass the bill the right way." But the best part, Amy says with relish, was "when some lobbyists wanted to delay the time until the bill took effect." So she took six of her "closest pregnant friends" with her to appear before the legislature. "When they asked when this bill should take effect, all my pregnant friends raised their hands and said, `Now.' " Of course, it worked.

I hate these CNN "debates" but I'm actually really excited to see Klobuchar in action.
posted by melissasaurus at 11:11 AM on September 23, 2017 [51 favorites]

If a person wants the privilege of being president, he should not be allowed to disrespect the office, country and constitution.

@realDonaldTrump
If a player wants the privilege of making millions of dollars in the NFL,or other leagues, he or she should not be allowed to disrespect....
...our Great American Flag (or Country) and should stand for the National Anthem. If not, YOU'RE FIRED. Find something else to do!
posted by chris24 at 11:23 AM on September 23, 2017 [9 favorites]

@ThatDudeMCFLY on Twitter: The Warriors should just go to the Obama's house and take the team pic on the porch.
posted by ctmf at 11:28 AM on September 23, 2017 [86 favorites]

they can't get him to even pretend he cares about PR, right.

you know, man o man, when this POS shuffles off this mortal coil I am going to get so fucking drunk.
posted by angrycat at 11:36 AM on September 23, 2017 [18 favorites]

you know, man o man, when this POS shuffles off this mortal coil I am going to get so fucking drunk.

QFT. The day he resigns / is impeached, I'm walking out of my office to the nearest bar and won't leave until the police drag me away on a drunk and disorderly.
posted by Room 101 at 11:41 AM on September 23, 2017 [28 favorites]

Pete Souza gets nothing but net.
posted by Room 641-A at 11:42 AM on September 23, 2017 [33 favorites]

I wonder how many NFL players are going to be taking a knee on Sunday?
posted by PenDevil at 11:50 AM on September 23, 2017 [5 favorites]

I hope all of them.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 11:55 AM on September 23, 2017 [36 favorites]

Trump didn't know to put his hand over his heart during the National Anthem until this year.
posted by orange ball at 11:55 AM on September 23, 2017 [4 favorites]

Shaun King has been getting messages that at least 35 more players will be joining the anthem protests.
posted by cmfletcher at 12:00 PM on September 23, 2017 [31 favorites]

Trump didn't know to put his hand over his heart during the National Anthem until this year.

Yeah, he thought they were playing it in honor of him.
posted by JackFlash at 12:05 PM on September 23, 2017 [1 favorite]

I hope all of them.

It won't be all. Tom Brady is a Trump supporter who had a MAGA hat in the locker room last year. It's unlikely he's the only one.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:07 PM on September 23, 2017

Puerto Rico is in the midst of a massive humanitarian crisis, with no electricity, little water or gas, and a 120' dam failing, but Trump's twitter shows what's really important to him right now: more white supremacy.
posted by zachlipton at 12:12 PM on September 23, 2017 [61 favorites]

It won't be all. Tom Brady is a Trump supporter who had a MAGA hat in the locker room last year.

He also refused to attend the White House ceremony after winning the superbowl. The MAGA hat was a nod to someone he played golf with, not an indication of his political leanings.

Belichick, on the other hand, definitely endorsed Trump.
posted by Slap*Happy at 12:15 PM on September 23, 2017 [2 favorites]

Pete Souza gets nothing but net.

Mom always says don't play ball in the House.
posted by darkstar at 12:20 PM on September 23, 2017 [3 favorites]

FYI

@DVNJr (ESPN)
Bob Kraft, Jerry Jones, Stan Kroenke, Daniel Snyder, Shahid Khan, Woody Johnson & Bob McNair each gave $1M to Trump.

(edit: NFL owners)
posted by chris24 at 12:24 PM on September 23, 2017 [11 favorites]

Why is it that Trump is getting away with doing absolutely nothing for the victims of three hurricanes while just one Katrina ruined W?

Body count? Scroll down a ways in this 538 article on Harvey and you'll see that 1,833 people died in Katrina; whereas, fewer than 100 died in Harvey and a similar number died in Irma. (The 538 chart says 47 died in Harvey. That number has since grown to over 70, but it will likely not top 100. Irma deaths are also less than 100 so far.)
posted by Jonathan Livengood at 12:29 PM on September 23, 2017 [4 favorites]

The MAGA hat was a nod to someone he played golf with, not an indication of his political leanings.

Tom Brady is non political? Then again, he also thinks drinking 2 1/2 gallons of water a day protects against sunburn.
posted by adamg at 12:30 PM on September 23, 2017 [1 favorite]

Teresa Kaepernick responded to Trump's attack on her son -
@B4IleaveU: Guess that makes me a proud bitch!

Moms kick ass!
posted by bibliowench at 12:32 PM on September 23, 2017 [89 favorites]

@DVNJr (ESPN)
Bob Kraft, Jerry Jones, Stan Kroenke, Daniel Snyder, Shahid Khan, Woody Johnson & Bob McNair each gave $1M to Trump.

New England Patriots, Dallas Cowboys, LA/St. Louis Rams, (and the NHL's Colorado Avalanche and NBA's Denver Nuggets), Washington Football Team, Jacksonville Jaguars, New York Jets, Houston Texans.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:34 PM on September 23, 2017 [6 favorites]

The Warriors put out a statement. They'll still go to DC, but they'll use the trip to "celebrate equality, diversity, and inclusion——the values we embrace as an organization" instead of visiting the White House.
posted by zachlipton at 12:34 PM on September 23, 2017 [69 favorites]

Ma was an immigrant.

How far falleth the apple from the tree.
posted by tivalasvegas at 12:47 PM on September 23, 2017 [1 favorite]

I think this hurts him more than we realize. Holding court with "fellow winners" is the only part of the job he enjoys. I expect he'll be crashing all the weddings this weekend and thinking up some sort of knee jerk revenge against the left.
posted by cmfletcher at 12:48 PM on September 23, 2017 [13 favorites]

If the election had gone differently, I fully expect that today's top story would be about how the President is directing resources to aid Puerto Rico in a natural disaster. Instead, it is about how the President has initiated a racially-tinged feud with many NFL players, and another with many NBA players.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:08 PM on September 23, 2017 [43 favorites]

The Dutch news magazine Zembla which earlier this year released "The dubious friends of Donald Trump: the Russians" and "The dubious friends of Donald trump: King of Diamonds" seem to have announced (in Dutch) that the third installment "De miljardenfraude" will be broadcast next week, which Google Translate gives me as "The Billion Fraud":

Does Donald Trump undermine his dubious ties with the former Soviet Union? The net around the president seems to be closing. Special prosecutor Robert Mueller, who investigates whether Trump has collaborated with Russia to win the elections, is now also in the business history of Trump. In that past, one of Donald Trump's business partners plays a crucial role, Felix Sater. A convicted criminal who has ties with Russian mafia.

Last May, ZEMBLA reveals how a US real estate company where Sater co-owned, used Dutch mailbox companies in a network suspected of having money laundered. $ 1.5 million would have gone away. Donald Trump built hotels and condominiums with this suspicious company.

In recent months, ZEMBLA has been indicative of an even greater fraud. A billion fraud. And here again, Sater, the controversial business partner of Trump, resembles. The money trajectory leads to Kazakhstan, to real estate projects in New York and again to the Netherlands. ZEMBLA examines: how compromising is this case for the current president of america?

posted by XMLicious at 1:13 PM on September 23, 2017 [6 favorites]

I couldn't even find front page coverage of Puerto Rico on the NYT website. Trump is, natch, sucking the oxygen from the room.
posted by angrycat at 1:17 PM on September 23, 2017 [6 favorites]

The results are in:

Seattle’s minimum-wage hike didn't boost supermarket prices.

Raising the minimum wage in Seattle to $13 an hour did not affect the price of food at supermarkets, according to a new study led by the University of Washington School of Public Health.

That’s good news for those earning higher wages. “Typically, criticisms of minimum wage policies have been that even if wage goes up it will be offset by increases in prices of consumer goods,” said Jennifer Otten, assistant professor of environmental and occupational health sciences and a member of the School’s nutritional sciences faculty. “This paper shows that, as of Seattle’s wage increase to $13 per hour in 2016, food prices are not going up.”

Another Republican myth BUSTED.
posted by darkstar at 1:20 PM on September 23, 2017 [78 favorites]

Robert Mueller, who investigates whether Trump has collaborated with Russia to win the elections, is now also in the business history of Trump.

I don't doubt that that is going to happen, but do we know it's already happening, or is that the real news in Zembla's article?
posted by Coventry at 1:25 PM on September 23, 2017 [1 favorite]

On behalf of all STLiberals, Fuck Stan Kroenke. He's a garbage person.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 1:39 PM on September 23, 2017 [4 favorites]

@Ben Jacobs Trump has been speaking for well over an hour and the crowd here in Huntsville is clearly thinning

This doesn't matter because they just combed the remaining crowd over.
posted by srboisvert at 1:41 PM on September 23, 2017 [34 favorites]

The flip side is that I'm worried he's just going to show up anyway, because isn't that what an awful person would do after this?

And, yep, here it is: Yiannopoulos vows to speak on UC Berkeley campus Sunday, welcome or not. This was the plan all along. Cancel the organized event you never bothered to plan, the one the state was going to spend a gazillion dollars to police, and just show up and cause chaos anyway.
posted by zachlipton at 1:44 PM on September 23, 2017 [17 favorites]

@BreeNewsome
Don't allow racists to reframe #TakeAKnee as being a debate about anthem & flag. It's a protest of police brutality & racism... 🙄
- ...which is why no one has ever been up in arms about folks buying hot dogs & popcorn when anthem is playing...
- ...b/c the racist backlash against athletes protesting is not about patrotism but about maintaining racial caste...
- "How dare these black athletes (of course your president uses a different term 😒) think they can get out of line & get uppity like that?"
- Racists including Trump will try to frame the issue as "disrespecting the flag" & not police brutality...
- ...when in reality they are offended by the protest of police violence & racism, things Trump has openly advocated.
posted by chris24 at 2:24 PM on September 23, 2017 [88 favorites]

the really surreal detail of that video of Melania nudging Trump to remind him to put his hand over his heart during the national anthem is that the Easter Bunny is hugely and cheerfully looming in the background, like something out of a horror movie
posted by angrycat at 2:37 PM on September 23, 2017 [12 favorites]

just one Katrina ruined W

a) It was way more than Katrina; Bush shot up to historic approval levels after 9/11, but it was a steady slide down from there. Katrina was more of a national-conversation tipping point than a polling one.

b) Trump started with historically low disapproval ratings and is still the least popular 247-day President in modern history save Gerald Ford (who sacrificed a national unity claque by pardoning his predecessor, of course). And the thing is, the people who still support him are probably going to continue supporting him full-throatedly out of tribal identity, the sunk-cost effect, and the crazification factor. So it's not like he is a shiny bauble that is suddenly, unexpectedly scuffed.

I think that's most of it, but there are other factors. Jonathon Livengood is right to point out that even three hurricanes have brought only a few deaths compared to Katrina. But the political moment of Katrina came after an increased discussion of New Orleans' particular vulnerability (the "bowl") and even before the storm hit this had entered the conversation as a sort of generic, perhaps neo-liberal "should we build cities where they are this vulnerable?" debate point -- but the availability of online media in primitive 2005 was such that there was an immediate politicization of these points such that the damage and casualty potential was all being heaped on Democrats by FOX News and the right (Free Republic, etc. then). And we were left with open questions as to whether the Bush administration would even declare a federal disaster area, with an infamous "tarmac meeting" of that era actually held between Blanco, various other officials including Rep. Jindal, and Bush on Friday. Katrina had hit New Orleans on Tuesday. Only after this meeting did the galumphing federal response really, at least apparently, ramp up.

You also had during that week an extended period of people flocking to the Superdome, itself partly wrecked by the storm, and finding few supplies and temporarily no power, with most escape routes from the city itself impassable. There was a broad media response that emphasized lawlessness and uncountable deaths, with the local refuge operation completely overwhelmed in terms of what it faced. There was a real moment of shock as FOX reporters Rivera and Smith reached the downtown and upended the narrative their network had aggressively colorized.

Essentially in the wake of apparent mass deaths -- well in excess of the ultimate numbers was being guessed at -- there was a debate over whether we should just let a major American city die (as if it "deserved" or had earned this fate). God, even the eventual commander of the active-duty military units sent in had to tell his troops not to point their guns at civilians, that this wasn't a "war zone".

The Trump White House, whatever its other faults, made its disaster declarations for PR and the USVI on Wednesday, which was actually just before the storm hit those islands, and his FEMA administrator -- contrary to pattern (of appointing agency enemies, destroyers, or incompetents) -- is a competent and experienced emergency manager who has grabbed the reins visibly during these incidents and at least makes its responsiveness appear effective. No "Brownie" by far. I think the various levels of government and emergency management learned many lessons from the Katrina experience, both in terms of CYA and truthfully saving lives, we do not have this sort of edge-of-the-seat fear that nothing will be done and deaths will be beyond imagination, and officials are not sniping at each other with partisan and racialized undertones. (It's harder, after all, to blame an island for being where it is.)

Finally, I think this whole bit of the presidency, the "white knight" stuff, gladhanding local politicians, and all that, is exactly the part that DJT is and was predicted to be "good at". People said he would be happier being a no-real-responsibility monarch or figurehead, and that is just what all of that is about.

So, to the extent that Katrina "ruined" Bush, it was because he had a functioning presidency (if not the approval numbers, by 2005) to ruin. He was assumed to be competent, he had people in charge of stuff, he was running wars and passing legislation. None of that is the case here, and DJT's numbers don't really have anywhere to go.

None of this is to say that the disaster response is sufficient. But on the other hand, I suspect that economic realities -- like the huge number of US prescription drugs that are made and/or packaged in PR -- mean that the power grid is going to be back up a little more quickly than the six months that seems to be a ploy given by officials. This is a telling blow to the US territories in the Caribbean, but few expect it to be fatal in the permanent, functional sense. It's just a far cry from the utterly heartless position that some were taking in re New Orleans, the "failed state" of a city that hmm is mostly black and we have so many other things we need to spend money on. Houston is going to be rebuilt, even if that means we do little about the development that affected the flooding. The Keys are going to be rebuilt. And Puerto Rico as well, in time, but its distance from the mainland will make that difficult to monitor.

But, yeah, as for "Trump's Katrina", I'm not sure there could actually be one, the way his support and persona are defined. Shoot someone on Fifth Avenue, and all. He bailed on the wall, he deferred locking her up to Sessions, you'd think there's not much else that he promised people, but he satisfies something more innate to their constructed selves by hating on black ball players. He's actually doing what they want him to.
posted by dhartung at 2:48 PM on September 23, 2017 [32 favorites]

I haven't been much of a Milo fan but it's very good of him to hold a rally defending the free speech rights of NFL players, and on such short notice too
posted by theodolite at 2:54 PM on September 23, 2017 [11 favorites]

Someone needs to do an alternate version of NFL RedZone for tomorrow that just shows the national anthems and none of the games.
posted by zachlipton at 3:26 PM on September 23, 2017 [2 favorites]

This Daily Beast story of Jimmy Kimmel and Chuck Schumer working together behind the scenes to activate the public against Graham-Cassidy is remarkable, and suggestive of how to weaponize pop cultural opposition to Trump. My opinion of both men went up. Kimmel really rose to this moment.
posted by spitbull at 3:31 PM on September 23, 2017 [47 favorites]

@realDonaldTrump: Roger Goodell of NFL just put out a statement trying to justify the total disrespect certain players show to our country.Tell them to stand!

Good grief. Now we all have to defend Roger Goodell's weaksauce statement that didn't mention the President or stand up for his player First Amendment rights? I so do not want to be on the same side as Roger Goodell on anything.
posted by zachlipton at 3:33 PM on September 23, 2017 [16 favorites]

Because we live in the stupidest possible timeline, I bet that half-assed response is what finally gets Roger Goodell fired. If Bob Kraft and Jerry Jones side with Trump over him, it could definitely happen.
posted by Copronymus at 3:35 PM on September 23, 2017 [2 favorites]

Charles Pierce: The Stories Coming Out of Flint Are Still Horrifying: The contaminated water appears to have decreased fertility rates.

The Rude Pundit: Republicans' Fake Concern for Fetuses: Flint Edition
posted by homunculus at 3:43 PM on September 23, 2017 [25 favorites]

I recently attended a Red Sox baseball game for the first time. When it was time to sing the anthem I was expecting a massive spectacle with the crowd in full throat, full brass band and tears streaming down cheeks. Instead it was the winner of "Rockport's Got Talent" trying to hit the high notes over a playback track while the mostly silent crowd snuck a peak at their cell phones. Frankly taking a knee seemed more respectful at that point.
posted by PenDevil at 3:44 PM on September 23, 2017 [30 favorites]

Well, it was just the national anthem, PenDevil. It wasn't "Sweet Caroline", FFS.
posted by uosuaq at 3:48 PM on September 23, 2017 [23 favorites]

Anybody know what Trump's tweet thanking Murkowski for coming through is all about? I can't find anything about it, anywhere. Do we think she caved? Or is he just being an asshole?
posted by Justinian at 3:54 PM on September 23, 2017

Twitter is buzzing with Patriotic Americans [tm] declaring that none of them will watch another NFL game as long as players kneel during the anthem.

Shit, I didn't know it was that simple. Can we get a Congressperson to play the anthem on the floor of the Senate and others to take turns kneeling until the reconciliation deadline has passed?

In the House too. Just because I am sure it would give Louie Gohmert diverticulitis to witness that.
posted by delfin at 3:56 PM on September 23, 2017 [10 favorites]

Trump's twitter feed: Iran just test-fired a Ballistic Missile capable of reaching Israel.They are also working with North Korea.Not much of an agreement we have!

What the ever loving fuck. Another complete confidence haemorrhage?
posted by stonepharisee at 4:03 PM on September 23, 2017 [6 favorites]

To anyone attending NFL games tomorrow: be careful. Not paranoid, but watchful. The combination of jingoistic rhetoric, alcohol, players kneeling In Defiance Of God's Will and fans kneeling in solidarity is likely to lead to more fistfights in the stands than usual.
posted by delfin at 4:12 PM on September 23, 2017 [4 favorites]

homunculus: "Charles Pierce: The Stories Coming Out of Flint Are Still Horrifying: The contaminated water appears to have decreased fertility rates.

The Rude Pundit: Republicans' Fake Concern for Fetuses: Flint Edition"

I'd be cautious with this. It's one study, and there are reasons to think it might be hinky.
posted by Chrysostom at 4:19 PM on September 23, 2017 [5 favorites]

If Bob Kraft and Jerry Jones side with Trump over him, it could definitely happen.

Not them, but other owners are supporting the players and criticizing Trump.

Stephen Ross, Miami Dolphins.

Our country needs unifying leadership right now, not more divisiveness. We need to seek to understand each other and have civil discourse instead of condemnation and sound bites. I know our players who kneeled for the anthem and these are smart young men of character who want to make our world a better place for everyone. They wanted to start a conversation and are making a difference in our community, including working with law enforcement to bring people together. We all can benefit from learning, listening and respecting each other. Sports is a common denominator in our world. We all have the responsibility to use this platform to promote understanding, respect and equality."

John Mara & Steve Tisch, New York Giants.

Comments like we heard last night from the president are inappropriate, offensive and divisive. We are proud of our players, the vast majority of whom use their NFL platform to make a positive difference in our society.

posted by chris24 at 4:19 PM on September 23, 2017 [23 favorites]

> Twitter is buzzing with Patriotic Americans [tm] declaring that none of them will watch another NFL game as long as players kneel during the anthem.

added to #blackoutnfl supporters skipping games because of how the league has reacted to the kneelers and those that have said enough to supporting a CTE-inducing sport, maybe no one will watch.
posted by ASCII Costanza head at 4:20 PM on September 23, 2017

Trump is the President who cannot President; he can only Campaign. Calling for the NFL to fire someone for political speech might be an effective talking point at one of Trump’s rallies before the election. Now, it feels like an undermining of the First Amendment. Suddenly tweeting that transgender people will not serve the military “in any capacity” without first consulting the Department of Defense is not governing, it is campaigning. It is a sentiment that Trump might have expressed with great effectiveness at a rally in mid-2016. Now he is Commander in Chief, and the only way the Executive Branch can effectively function is to ignore him and pretend it didn’t happen. It is an act of someone who does not have to consider than his decisions may have immediate real-life consequences in national policy. Continuously lambasting the Iran deal was a wise move for a Republican presidential candidate. A Republican President making the same criticism is expected to decide upon an alternative policy. Trump has not and likely will not. He is still eager to campaign against the government he now leads, but he is unable to lead it to a better place.

He should not be where he is.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 4:22 PM on September 23, 2017 [68 favorites]

C'mon Vikings. You would get so many cool points if you signed Kaepernick. Much needed cool points.

I've been thinking this for a while. They have a history of signing "troublesome" players. They signed Cris Carter after he was bounced from Philadelphia for substance abuse problems and drafted Randy Moss despite supposed questions about his character.
posted by kirkaracha at 4:35 PM on September 23, 2017 [1 favorite]

We need to seek to understand each other

Actually, for the last year or two it's been pretty criss-tal. Sir.
posted by petebest at 4:40 PM on September 23, 2017 [1 favorite]

Don't allow racists to reframe #TakeAKnee as being a debate about anthem & flag. It's a protest of police brutality & racism... 🙄

The problem is, it's both.

The flag comes out with the anthem. These things are inextricably linked. The anthem doesn't play without the flag. The flag doesn't come out without the anthem. When you are protesting the anthem, you are protesting the flag, because they absolutely cannot be separated. The protests chose the flag, the anthem, as a way to make an impact, by taking the thing that is the most sacred symbol of the Nation, and saying, "It's meaningless to me while these things happen."

And that is a slap to people who have deep emotional, almost semi-religious ties to the flag, even ones who support the protests or who protest themselves. It's almost a different culture - the tweets, for example, say "no one has ever been up in arms about folks buying hot dogs & popcorn when anthem is playing", but that misses that actually, for many people, that also is shocking and uncouth. They don't always say something publicly, but that doesn't mean it doesn't bother people.

I spent the first ten years of my adulthood in the military. When the anthem plays, the flag is brought out or retired, on a military base, there is a perfect stillness of a sort that rises above that of most funerals, even. Cars stop driving. People stop walking, talking, or eating. Everyone turns towards the direction of the music and salutes or places their hand over their heart, depending on if they're in uniform or not. It lasts for the length of the anthem - then everyone turns and moves.

When I die, the flag will be draped across my coffin, then folded and presented to my daughter. I have attended many, many funerals. I have saluted many, many flags. The flag is linked in so many complex ways to my brothers-in-arms and capital-A America that I myself don't know how to separate them if I wanted to. When we, as anti-war veterans, protested, we took extra hours learning how to keep the flag from touching the ground if the police decided to beat or shoot us. The latter didn't trouble our minds - only the possibility of the former, of the flag falling from our grasp and being tainted by touching earth. It is a symbol that stands for living people and the dead, that will outlast us all and yet be our continuation. I still feel that way, even when my country is taken over by monsters as it currently is. It is complex.

I support NFL players protesting against police brutality and racism. I support their right to protest the anthem- it's a right my brothers and sisters in arms all fought to defend. I support their right to strike until it's resolved, if that's what they choose to do. I don't think they don't get to protest because their athletes. Everyone gets to protest, that's the point of America.

But still, for me, watching someone disrespect the flag is like watching someone desecrate the cross. I don't think it should be illegal, and I don't even think people should stop if that's what they feel - but I am full of shock and horror. Which is probably, I think, what the protests intended.
posted by corb at 4:42 PM on September 23, 2017 [23 favorites]

without disagreeing with what you said, corb, as some people really do feel that way about the u s flag, i think we should also consider that others might have another visceral reaction of hate and fear when that flag is presented - or worse, when other flags, such as the confederate flag are shown
posted by pyramid termite at 4:46 PM on September 23, 2017 [48 favorites]

But still, for me, watching someone disrespect the flag is like watching someone desecrate the cross.

The flag is a piece of cloth. It's what it represents that gives it power and what it represents is exemplified by what the protestors are doing, not blind allegiance to a totem.

@BenSasse
NFL players:
You have the right to protest Trump tmrw. But aren’t there better ways than kneeling before the flag soldiers died to defend?

@joanwalsh Retweeted Ben Sasse
They died to defend not the flag itself but the freedoms it represents--including freedom of speech @bensasse
posted by chris24 at 4:51 PM on September 23, 2017 [72 favorites]

I get that people have some attachment to the flag. Especially if it's the thing you recognize while in a bad situation like war. But it's just a flag. It's a symbol. It's worthless until you put a personal value onto it. I can't understand and probably will never understand the mindset of someone who thinks the symbol is more important than the idea. It's just... Why? It feels like "Christians" who care more about "disrespecting" Christmas than following Christ. It's putting the team colors on in the stands instead of playing the game. The hypocrites who want to be seen as good rather than acting good.
posted by downtohisturtles at 4:53 PM on September 23, 2017 [14 favorites]

As a foreigner, arriving here was a little disconcerting with all the overt displays of patriotism from private businesses and citizens. In Australia you have flags out the front of government buildings and schools and sometimes, not even then. Like if I walk down St Georges Tce in Perth I get a set of flags at the council chambers and that's it.

If I take a corner of the town where I live now I can count FOUR US flags from this corner. Like if I ever forget what country I'm in I'll be reminded pretty damn quick. But until you get used to it it's damn uncomfortable.
posted by Talez at 4:53 PM on September 23, 2017 [14 favorites]

Isn't kneeling a fairly profound gesture of respect?
posted by shenderson at 4:56 PM on September 23, 2017 [26 favorites]

@koopa_kinte
Since “disrespecting the flag” is still the narrative being used, this courtesy of the US Flag Code Chapter 10: Respect for flag. A Thread
- Let’s jump right in... US Flag Code: Chapter 10.176C “The flag should never be carried flat or horizontally, but always aloft and free.” [multiple pix of huge US flags being carried flat during pre-game and halftime shows]
- US Flag Code: Chapter 10.176D “The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery.” [multiple pix of flags as apparel]
- Here’s a popular violation. US Flag Code Chapter 10.176I “The flag should never be used for advertising purposes in any manner whatsoever.” [multiple pix of flags in ads or on products]
- US Flag Code Chapter 10.176I (pt 2) “It should not be embroidered on such articles as cushions or handkerchiefs and the like...” [multiple pix of flag products]
- US Flag Code Chapter 10.176I (pt3) “...or otherwise impressed on paper napkins or anything that is designed for temporary use and discard.” [multiple pix, you get the idea]
- Since it’s Saturday... US Flag Code Chapter 10.176J “No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform.” [multiple pix of football uniforms using flags]
- Not covered in the “Respect for Flag” section; standing/kneeling/sitting. That’s considered a conduct violation, not disrespectful.
- Nothing in the Flag Code explicit states you have to stand, just that you “should.” All the things I listed were outlined as disrespectful.
- So yanno, if you want to point your anger at the flag being disrespected anywhere... the mirror might be the best place to start. Fin
- Signed, A 3rd Generation Vet

---

People don't give a shit about the flag rules unless they can use it as a weapon to oppress others.
posted by chris24 at 5:06 PM on September 23, 2017 [150 favorites]

George H W Bush successfully diverted everyone with that flag-burning crap in the fuckng eighties. If it hastens the demise of football, hey, it's a terrible game. We've spilled enough ink on it. None of it will help get Wiggy out of the White House and let justice be done sooner.
go bengals
posted by petebest at 5:07 PM on September 23, 2017 [2 favorites]

The kneeling felt like a gesture of mourning, for me.

But the reason they did it is precisely because the flag and the anthem are such powerful and meaningful symbols. Saluting the flag means something - various things to various people, but, devotion, love, whatnot. Well, it's hard to love a country that doesn't love you back. It's hard to respect a country that doesn't keep its promises, and fails in its duties to its citizens. We should not respect a state that abuses its power.

If Kaepernick had saluted the flag, presumably, he wouldn't have meant it. He meant what he did. He meant the disrespect, and he meant it in the spirit that corb took it.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 5:16 PM on September 23, 2017 [29 favorites]

I am constantly surprised - as someone well over into the "just a piece of cloth" camp - by how casually disrespectful people are of the flag. It's one thing if you're trying to signify cynical insouciance, or whatever, but when I see some conservative with a stained, ill-fitting piece of clothing with a flag on it, soaking up sweat and getting spilled on, it irritates me for the very stupidity. And the quality of the flags you see flying - when a flag becomes worn, you're supposed to replace it (absent some reason to fly that individual flag) and dispose of it with various degrees of patriotic fuss. You're also not supposed to like, leave the flag out in the rain. (If only we could never have that recipe again, though.)

If nothing else, burning or indicating ill-will toward the American flag shows that you think it means something, whereas flying a deteriorated one over your McDonald's at night in a thunderstorm shows nothing but the laziest form of crass commercialism.
posted by Frowner at 5:17 PM on September 23, 2017 [62 favorites]

I spent the first ten years of my adulthood in the military. When the anthem plays, the flag is brought out or retired, on a military base, there is a perfect stillness of a sort that rises above that of most funerals, even.

I mean, yeah? Sure?

But characterizing this as some sort of spontaneous and honest reverence seems deeply misplaced to me. People stop and face the anthem and salute or put their hand over their heart because they're required to do so and can be punished for failing to do so.

Granted, I was just a kid on various bases, mostly in Germany and in the 70s. But the general air about the anthem certainly seemed much more "Not this annoying bullshit again" than "Hurray! The anthem!"
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 5:23 PM on September 23, 2017 [20 favorites]

David Remnick: “In these performances, Trump is making clear his moral priorities. He is infinitely more offended by the sight of a black ballplayer quietly, peacefully protesting racism in the United States than he is by racism itself. Which, at this point, should come as no surprise to any but the willfully obtuse…”

In other words, it's not going to get better suburban racist Trumpers, so either get out your insignia for daily wear or start pushing aganst this fascist monster you created. Whatever chance you may have wished he'd had to 'drain his swamp', he's blown it a hundred times over. Quit pretending already. You know what he's about.

Chuck Todd, calling you out. Will you accept the charges?
posted by petebest at 5:26 PM on September 23, 2017 [8 favorites]

Doesn't seem so bad to let a flag touch the ground, considering the ground is far more literally the country than that piece of cloth.
posted by rifflesby at 5:27 PM on September 23, 2017 [8 favorites]

Stephen Curry: "I don't know why he feels the need to target certain individuals rather than others. I have an idea of why, but, it's just kind of beneath, I think, a leader of a country to go that route. It's not what leaders do."
posted by chris24 at 5:28 PM on September 23, 2017 [38 favorites]

There is one man qualified to speak to the true meaning of the flag.

And he's still right.
posted by delfin at 5:29 PM on September 23, 2017 [17 favorites]

Trump is vile. He's a racist vile piece of shit. I don't have any clever analysis to add. He's a racist waste of stem cells and I wish he would disappear off the face of the earth and take all his fanatics with him.

I don't give a shit about the American flag and I'm tired of playing nice with people who think a symbol is more important than the ideas it represents. Especially when it's so selectively applied. Kneeling instead of standing = disrespect. Going to get a beer and nachos instead of standing = perfectly fine patriotism. Funny how that tracks. Similar to taking a knee = you're a son of a bitch. Marching around terrorizing people and waving confederate flags or using nazi symbols = very fine people.

Flags don't mean shit. The venn diagram of people who get misty eyed about our flag, and the people who shit all over our values in practice, is a fucking circle.

Trump is deliberately stirring up racial animus every chance he gets. He threw some red meat to the dumb shits in Alabama and they responded like he knew they would. Fuck him, fuck all his racist acolytes, fuck performative patriotism, and fuck the half of the country that is ok with this. If they want to pretend it's about patriotism or soldiers who died for the flag or what the fuck ever they are more than welcome to pantomime patriotic sentiment for each other. It doesn't mean I have to buy into it, respect it, or treat it with any validity whatsoever.
posted by supercrayon at 5:29 PM on September 23, 2017 [88 favorites]

Flags were literally invented to control people. We have to get over, around, under, or through it, but another national flag discussion that so thinly and poorly hides it's true conversation is an appalling indictment of our progress as - well, anything, really.
posted by petebest at 5:33 PM on September 23, 2017 [7 favorites]

Green Bay Packers President/CEO Mark Murphy

It's unfortunate that the President decided to use his immense platform to make divisive and offensive statements about our players and the NFL. We strongly believe that players are leaders in our communities and positive influences. They have achieved their positions through tremendous work and dedication and should be celebrated for their success and positive impact. We believe it is important to support any of our players who choose to peacefully express themselves with the hope of change for good. As Americans, we are fortunate to be able to speak openly and freely.

posted by chris24 at 5:33 PM on September 23, 2017 [28 favorites]

Welcome to the 80's again. Nuclear penis-waving, national flag controversies, and Republicans screwing the economy, the environment, and blaming, well, guess who.
posted by petebest at 5:37 PM on September 23, 2017 [21 favorites]

Being more invested in a symbol than actual people is how you get ~~ants~~ nazis.
posted by maxwelton at 5:40 PM on September 23, 2017 [18 favorites]

Here's an idea: if people are so solemn and reverent and profoundly devoted to the fucking flag and national anthem, maybe they should reserve them for, I dunno, actual solemn and reverent occasions and settings rather than football games and NASCAR and discount store openings.
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:41 PM on September 23, 2017 [64 favorites]

that and if people really feel jesus is that important maybe they should quit fucking crucifying him

see matthew 25:40
posted by pyramid termite at 5:47 PM on September 23, 2017 [6 favorites]

the flag code wasn't even adopted until after wwi and i recall reading that prior to wwi, flag display was generally limited to independence day and decoration day, and it wasn't uncommon for even city halls and such to not fly it other than those days (i can't find a source for that now)

anyway, for most of my life (reagan onwards) the flag has basically meant "stop thinking, shut up, and nod along with the warmongers" so i mainly associate it with jingoism rather than patriotism, which is sad—but what isn't these days?
posted by entropicamericana at 5:48 PM on September 23, 2017 [21 favorites]

Stephen Bannon is heading to Alabama to rally for Roy Moore (R) on Monday night with Phil Robertson of “Duck Dynasty,” according to Axios.

I mean, sure. Why not. Place yer bets on the electronic Twitter machine's inevitable tweet victim via A Very Serious Predisent.
posted by petebest at 5:52 PM on September 23, 2017 [2 favorites]

$50 on a giant meteor with FINALLY! ALL THREE IN ONE PLACE stenciled on it.
posted by delfin at 5:58 PM on September 23, 2017 [14 favorites]

when a flag becomes worn, you're supposed to replace it (absent some reason to fly that individual flag) and dispose of it with various degrees of patriotic fuss. You're also not supposed to like, leave the flag out in the rain.

supposed to? supposed to? as an American one is supposed to do whatever one pleases with one's own private property, so long as it harms no one. the more perverse and pointless and unprofitable the thing the better. "because I can" is the most precious and fragile of American ideals because it is the most easily corrupted. but until it is corrupted by fifteen minutes' exposure to careless handling by the hands of Americans, it does not need to be redeemed, because it is wholesome and self-evidently good.

any American is exactly as good an authority on what should be done with a symbol of their own country, which symbol belongs to them even as they belong to the country and the country to them, as any other American. that is what the Flag stands for. it is a fuckin ugly flag and I do not salute it because I do not care to reward bad design choices with subservient public displays. however, I respect what it stands for, even though I don't have to and neither does anybody else. therefore, fuck the flag code.

p.s. idolatry is against God, and that is ok with me because I, also, am against God. pro-idol all my life. but you can't be a good Christian and demand any degree of reverence towards the flag. treating it as sacred is the most vulgar kind of blasphemy. everybody knows this but everybody forgets.
posted by queenofbithynia at 6:13 PM on September 23, 2017 [17 favorites]

I did some ~~shit~~drakeposting.
posted by Talez at 6:20 PM on September 23, 2017 [4 favorites]

Several more NFL owners have made statements concurring with Goodell - Arthur Blank of the Falcons, Dean Spanos of the Chargers, Jed York of the 49ers, Amy Adams Strunk of the Titans, Jeffrey Lurie of the Eagles.

The strongest statement I've seen was put by John Angelos, the son of Baltimore Orioles owner Peter Angelos. He's a top exec for the team and will someday inherit the team. Baseball has remained remarkably aloof from the country's political turmoil, but the Angelos family has a long history of speaking out for civil rights and workers' rights. Consolidated from the original tweets for your reading pleasure:

"In nearly 25 years as a sports executive & a lifetime spent as an American citizen I have never been so appalled by the abusive blood lust of my country's highest governmental office to defile my country's constitutional guarantees & selectively attack & demonize my country's people based on their exercise of our constitutional free speech rights.

As a sports executive who merely performs in private in the front office while our great athletes perform on the field, in the front court, and in front of hundreds of millions of consumers as trusted spokespeople, philanthropists, corporate representatives, & childrens' role models, as well as sports professionals, it is my honor to pledge unqualified personal support for the examples set by @StephenCurry30 and @kaepernick7 and to express my undying opposition to the repulsive conduct of this Administration, one that because of its conduct and Anti-american & anti-citizen abuse of its power should be repudiated, protested, and legally opposed on every front."
posted by vathek at 6:56 PM on September 23, 2017 [95 favorites]

I have been having serious flag angst since the election. Currently I'm flying a weather beaten American flag, solo, over the house that has been up since June 2016. I've been looking for flags that can convey a sense of unity and equanimity for all people in my neighborhood to replace it with, but have not yet found something that is universally understood symbolically, given the diversity of the environment.
Thus I have said FUCKIT, the flag that I put up when I had an idea of what it meant, to me and others, is the flag I keep up. I will not let some orange fucktard change what the meaning of america is to me, overnight, and bring shame to that banner. That flag, to me, says that we are all here, and we are here together, unified, to be the country we want to be. here. now. and forever.
Yes I know it's a minor desecration to be flying an old flag, but in this case, it carries my sentiment perfectly, of the old standard of the union we were just so recently trying to perfect.

that said, puerto rico should be a star upon thar, I will gladly update my flag for that
posted by Cold Lurkey at 7:01 PM on September 23, 2017 [15 favorites]

any American is exactly as good an authority on what should be done with a symbol of their own country, which symbol belongs to them even as they belong to the country and the country to them, as any other American. that is what the Flag stands for.

Well, actually, according to a certain popular song about it, the flag proudly stands for America's unwavering ability not to be completely burned to the ground in righteous retaliation for having attempted -- in "free" and "brave" fashion -- the forced annexation of Canada while Britain had its back turned fighting Napoleon.
posted by Sys Rq at 7:18 PM on September 23, 2017 [9 favorites]

We aren't really going to relitigate the War of 1812, are we?
posted by Chrysostom at 7:40 PM on September 23, 2017 [46 favorites]

At this rate, the Problem That Is Trump is apparently going to have us relitigate every issue America has ever had as a country. I was tired three months ago. Now I'm... exsanguinated?
posted by thebrokedown at 7:42 PM on September 23, 2017 [14 favorites]

I guess it's because we've never really fully dealt with ANYthing. These are hard issues. And dealing with them all at once with a madman at the wheel is just too damn much.
posted by thebrokedown at 7:46 PM on September 23, 2017 [23 favorites]

As a foreigner, arriving here was a little disconcerting with all the overt displays of patriotism from private businesses and citizens.

I swear to god that wasn't so much of a thing before 9/11. I mean you'd see flags on certain holidays and in certain places, but the utter overwhelming display of flags EVERYWHERE ALL THE TIME just wasn't a thing. And then 9/11 happened and every business was flying flags and if they didn't were getting accused of not being patriotic enough and somehow it just never stopped.

Am I the only one with that impression?
posted by threeturtles at 7:50 PM on September 23, 2017 [32 favorites]

I guess it's because we've never really fully dealt with ANYthing. These are hard issues. And dealing with them all at once with a madman at the wheel is just too damn much.

Except, mostly, they aren't hard issues. They're easy issues. Are black people people? Yes. Are women people? Yes. Are foreign people people? Yes. See, easy.

The hard part isn't the issue, the hard part is that a lot of our fellow citizens don't want to treat black people, or women, or foreigners, like people and they're more than willing to yell, scream, and play victim if we try to make them.

You're right, we've never actually fully dealt with much of any of the underlying inequalities and problems in America. But it isn't because the issues are hard, it's just that among white moderates the will to deal with the tantrums from bigots just hasn't been there. The bigots threaten a tantrum and far, far, too often the white moderate declares that things are just too difficult or complicated to deal with and allows the bigotry to continue.
posted by sotonohito at 7:53 PM on September 23, 2017 [28 favorites]

I guess it's because we've never really fully dealt with ANYthing.
THIS. The madman at the wheel is the most Purely American President since Andrew Jackson. And the reason we can't deal with the bigots throwing tantrums is because they own and/or run so much of this country. And "9/11" proved that the truly American symbol wasn't a flag, it was a massive but poorly constructed office building (because well-constructed buildings wouldn't have collapsed). Quality, competence and human compassion are NOT American qualities because Success IS the Most American Quality, and those other things just make Success more difficult.
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:00 PM on September 23, 2017 [6 favorites]

The madman at the wheel is the most Purely American President since Andrew Jackson.

FUCK THAT. America has its virtues, too, and that orange shit is no more American than Barack Obama.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:08 PM on September 23, 2017 [21 favorites]

SI: Athletics’ Bruce Maxwell Becomes First MLB Player to Kneel for National Anthem

Oakland A’s catcher Bruce Maxwell became the first Major League Baseball player to kneel for the national anthem in open protest ahead of Oakland’s home game against the Texas Rangers.

Maxwell, who is African-American and comes from a military family, chose to kneel with his hand on his heart while facing the flag in solidarity with the NFL players who continue to protest racism and inequalities in America.
...
Earlier Saturday, Maxwell posted on Twitter following a series of comments from president Donald Trump that called for the firing of NFL players who chose to protest the national anthem. On Friday night, Trump referred to such players as “sons of b****es” in a public forum while addressing a crowd.

@bruu_truu13: Don't be surprised if you start seeing athletes kneeling in other sports now!! Comments like that coming from our president. WOW! ✊🏽✊🏽✊🏽

posted by chris24 at 8:10 PM on September 23, 2017 [48 favorites]

I'm exsanguinated, eaten by my three dogs, reanimated, eating sheetcake as a zombie, and I am still outraged. Fuck, when can I just take half a hour to throw laundry in, dust the living room, and empty the dishwasher.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 8:15 PM on September 23, 2017 [12 favorites]

There's nothing sacred about the flag or the anthem. They stand for a nation state, not for God or for some other vaguer form of numinous beyond. We could have sports contests without a patriotic ritual first, and everything would be fine. People would still know what country they live in.
posted by thelonius at 8:15 PM on September 23, 2017 [25 favorites]

Hockey season will be interesting (as a huge Blues fan) to see if anyone does anything. Our anthem is usually sung by an African American man. A lot of NHL players are Russian, too. IDK where I'm going with this except that the NHL has traditionally been the slowest to activism. Also the Blues usually do this creepy jingoistic 'Military Week' around veterans day.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 8:24 PM on September 23, 2017

The UC Berkeley Chancellor has been played for the fool she is. (she rolled out the red carpet for Nazis more than any other part of the UC system)
posted by Yowser at 8:25 PM on September 23, 2017 [1 favorite]

You're right threeturtles, I was 19 when 9/11 happened and I remember that before then the only people in my neck of the woods flying flags all the time, and talking about the flag, and giving a shit about the flag, were both A) extremely unusual and B) total rednecks. Or else they were like retired marines. I feel sorry for people who are a bit younger than myself because they don't remember what it was like before "patriotism" became the normalized thing. Prior to 9/11 if anyone had talked to me about "patriotism" I would have assumed they were an army recruiter or some such.

It's not even real patriotism, it's a fucking cargo cult. Real patriotism is Indivisible. It's the people who went out in boats to try and rescue their neighbors in Houston. It's the ACLU. It's the people marching to protect DACA. It's get out the vote drives. It's throwing the last bit of money you have to someone's givealittle to help pay for the medical care that should be funded by taxes if we lived in a civilized country. It's the people who fought across decades to enshrine the human rights of women, of people of color, of LBGTQ people. It's protecting the water on your tribal lands. It's volunteering at your local elementary school or library to read to kids. It's delivering meals to seniors. It's taking a knee in protest of black people being gunned down indiscriminately by the police. These are people who actually love America, who are actually trying to make it better.

Performative "patriotism"in its current form is just another reified form of groupthink, authoritarianism, conformity, and oppression. It's applied selectively and weaponized to silence dissent. So, same ol' same ol' for the American right-wing. The people who demand it and try to coerce it don't understand the first godamn thing about what makes America special. They don't make America better, they are small minded bigots, petty and cruel, with howling voids where their hearts and brains should be. And I am sick to my teeth of their horse-shit. I have no tolerance left for it.
posted by supercrayon at 8:28 PM on September 23, 2017 [63 favorites]

NFL owners are directly telling players not to protest tomorrow. And the networks are debating showing the anthem at all.

Look at these profiles in fucking courage.

Shuan King is a former NFL quarterback and ESPN analyst. Gregg Linton is a former player and current agent.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:29 PM on September 23, 2017 [12 favorites]

The thing is, the thing is, when they try to hide it, EVERYONE KNOWS! The best thing is the only other option is to normalize it, have the side-line cams play over the kneeling players as an intro to the commercials with attendant brass-section flair.

"Why they kneeling again, kid?"
"The third stanza is super slave-positive, and also black people are being killed by cops at will regardless if they committed a crime or represented a threat a London Bobby could have handled with one hand full of a newspaper cone of freshly vinegared fish'n'chips."
"Well, that sucks. Kickoff! Get out the guac!"
posted by Slap*Happy at 8:39 PM on September 23, 2017 [2 favorites]

Meanwhile the rhetoric is gradually drifting from "they better watch out or I'll destroy North Korea and kill millions of North and South Koreans" to "guess I'm probably gonna destroy North Korea and kill millions of North and South Koreans."

@realDonaldTrump
Just heard Foreign Minister of North Korea speak at U.N. If he echoes thoughts of Little Rocket Man, they won't be around much longer!
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:40 PM on September 23, 2017 [3 favorites]

I think that's a different Shaun King.
posted by Biblio at 8:40 PM on September 23, 2017 [6 favorites]

I think that's a different Shaun King.

Ah you're right, that one is the writer and activist, not the former player. I still believe he's in contact with current players and would know what he's talking about.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:45 PM on September 23, 2017 [2 favorites]

RE flags everywhere: I lived and worked in Tunisia in the late 90s, when Ben Ali was still in power. I was struck by how every shop had his picture (a requirement, I think) and the Tunisian flag was EVERYWHERE.

Every shop, every room of every government building, in streamers and pennants and, and, and...

I finally remarked on this to a British expat friend. She said, "Yeah, it's like the U.S., innit?"

Ever since coming back to the States, I now see the U.S. flag everywhere.
posted by darkstar at 8:48 PM on September 23, 2017 [11 favorites]

Republicans and establishment-types used to HATE it when people blatantly disrespected the American flag.
posted by yhbc at 9:02 PM on September 23, 2017 [1 favorite]

Stevie Wonder ‘Takes a Knee For America’ During Performance
posted by Room 641-A at 9:02 PM on September 23, 2017 [25 favorites]

This is my flag.
posted by schoolgirl report at 9:20 PM on September 23, 2017 [1 favorite]

Am I the only one with that impression?

I've been here since '95, so I got to see the evolution after 9/11. It's real, and was much discussed at the time.
posted by Coventry at 9:23 PM on September 23, 2017 [4 favorites]

14 hours after posting, the LeBron tweet has cracked the top 20 most liked tweets of all time, and is likely to enter the top 15 most retweeted of all time within a few hours.

Must have touched a nerve.
posted by gwint at 9:32 PM on September 23, 2017 [42 favorites]

Imagine if people who don't like Kapernick's kneeling had just ignored it or said, "welp, I don't agree with him but he's got a right to express himself." This whole thing could've blown over by now.
posted by kirkaracha at 9:39 PM on September 23, 2017 [11 favorites]

I spent the first ten years of my adulthood in the military. When the anthem plays, the flag is brought out or retired, on a military base, there is a perfect stillness of a sort that rises above that of most funerals, even.

I mean, I get that you have strong feelings about the song and the flag, but... this level of unquestioning, starry-eyed veneration for a song that praises slavery is deeply troubling.
posted by palomar at 9:54 PM on September 23, 2017 [18 favorites]

As a foreigner, arriving here was a little disconcerting with all the overt displays of patriotism from private businesses and citizens.

really grinds my gears to see that in the midst of the rubble left by an F5 tornado, or a hurricane related flood, or basically any kind of natural destruction some douchebag flies a flag.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 9:56 PM on September 23, 2017

I just came across this while skimming my normal Ankylosing Spondylitis forums. I told my healthcare story at a press conference today. The presser had been organised by Congresswoman Doris Matsui in response to that vile piece of legislation, the Graham-Cassidy healthcare bill.
posted by michswiss at 10:44 PM on September 23, 2017 [27 favorites]

While we are slagging the wretched U.S. National Anthem, it is worth pointing out that Francis Scott Key was a slave owner who wrote that Africans in America were: “a distinct and inferior race of people, which all experience proves to be the greatest evil that afflicts a community.” He also, as District Attorney for the city of Washington, prosecuted and tried to hang an abolitionist for merely possessing abolitionist literature.

And, yeah, that third verse is racist as hell, so don't be surprised if some people don't get all teary eyed about the National Anthem. The real disgrace is that the U.S. still uses that garbage song as its anthem.
posted by JackFlash at 10:50 PM on September 23, 2017 [56 favorites]

Not that I'm optimistic enough to think this will happen but...

Wouldn't it be crazy if the thing that really turns the country against Trump and the GOP is a week of fights with Jimmy Kimmel, Steph Curry, LeBron James, and Colin Kapernick? All Trump has to do is start some stupid war with The Rock and he'd be on the road to impeachment. Right? This is the timeline we are in, isn't it?
posted by Glibpaxman at 10:55 PM on September 23, 2017 [9 favorites]

So, back in the before time, when it wasn't just okay to spout racist crap in public, occasionally a public figure would say or tweet something racist and they would lose their jobs. Invariably, the right wing would get all up in arms about the racist's freedom of speech and their first amendment rights and someone would have to patiently explain that the first amendment doesn't protect you against all consequences from whatever you say, just from the government coming after you for what you say.

The thing is, now we have the president of the United States calling for private citizens to be fired because of what they said. And no one is batting an eyelash. And that's REALLY not okay.
posted by Weeping_angel at 11:08 PM on September 23, 2017 [52 favorites]

While we are slagging the wretched U.S. National Anthem

you might want to spare a thought for those of us with one that is objectively worse.
posted by flabdablet at 11:26 PM on September 23, 2017

with respect to how our country fails to really interrogate its mistakes

george clooney :P

I was born in ‘61, so by the time I was really aware of things it was the end of the ‘60s. At that moment, we were all very hopeful. We felt like segregation—certainly in the South—had just ended, and things were moving in the right direction. So the way you saw racism was always in much sneakier ways. If you were going to a restaurant they’d say, “Oh, no open-toed shoes” or “No shirts without collars” but they would only enforce it with black people. There was pervasive implied racism. It took me a while to realize what was going on because most of us growing up at that time, we thought, “Oh, this is all fixed. Medgar Evers, Martin Luther King, and Malcolm X, they all died for a reason. And this reason is now coming to fruition.” And what we soon realized was that we weren’t even beginning to exorcise our deep-seated original sin.

Doublethink is as American as racism, baseball, and apple pie.

One of my big takeaways from it was that it confronted white liberal guilt in an interesting fashion—similar in some ways to Guess Who’s Coming to Dinner. The notion of, oh, you say you believe in equality but then don’t uphold those values when it comes to your doorstep.

also btw!
'Battle Of The Sexes' Revisits Billie Jean King's Historic Win Against Bobby Riggs

Though younger listeners may scarcely believe it, if King had lost, it would've damaged the woman's cause for years. Defenders of traditional sex roles would have felt they had vivid proof, watched by millions, that women aren't merely physically smaller and weaker than men but that they also buckle under pressure. Now, it may seem crazy that something like a manufactured tennis match could become a referendum on how we should live. But this is America, folks. "Battle Of The Sexes" serves as a useful reminder of the crazy-huge role that pop culture plays in our national life, where the border between entertainment and real life is more porous than anywhere else.

No other Western country has elected an actor president, let alone a reality TV star. This isn't simply a question of celebrity. You see, pop culture is often the way that mainstream America, especially the mainstream media, deals with social and political issues it prefers not to confront head-on. The argument over gay rights is made indirectly by "Will & Grace," which normalizes gayness. The fight over Black Lives Matter gets deflected into fights about Colin Kaepernick kneeling during the national anthem. And the harsh, winner-take-all nature of today's economy reinforces itself on TV competitions like "Survivor" and, yes, "The Apprentice."

Naturally, such sociopolitical issues are so huge and tricky that pop culture can't really solve them. And so they keep coming back in slightly different forms. "Battle Of The Sexes" is about the showdown between a brash, attention-loving guy who doesn't care all that much whether he wins - it's all good for business - and an earnest feminist opponent weighed down by her sense that she's fighting for a righteous cause. I could almost be describing last year's presidential election - with one big difference, of course - the winner.

posted by kliuless at 11:28 PM on September 23, 2017 [37 favorites]

The thing is, now we have the president of the United States calling for private citizens to be fired because of what they said. And no one is batting an eyelash. And that's REALLY not okay.

Not OK is relative. Ranting against the free speech of men is not tolerable, but all Trump needs to do is call for Clinton to be silenced, and half of social media will cheer him on.
posted by happyroach at 11:36 PM on September 23, 2017 [6 favorites]

trump is using Rocket Man because he cant remember Kim Jong un's full name and is too embarrassed to say so to his tweeter in chief ?Hope Hicks? so he's going for that classic move, 'I'll make this nickname into a negative thing by the force of my Donaldness'

I'm too old for that to work (I'm a Bowie Rocket Man person) and quite bizarrely now feel quite protective when i hear Trump attacking the leader of NK, FFS!!!! 2017 SMH
posted by Wilder at 12:08 AM on September 24, 2017 [8 favorites]

To me "Rocket Man" is and always will be a reference to the Pearls Before Swine song, which is written from the point of view of a child whose mother made a vow never to look at a star if her astronaut husband fell into it, only to learn that he was killed by a solar flare. The refrain is

My mother and I never went out
Unless the sky was cloudy or the sun was blotted out
Or to escape the pain
We only went out when it rained

Um...needless to say it is making everything lately feel WAY darker. But on the other hand I feel it's a truly great song.

Wish he hadn't picked "Rocket Man" as KJU's middle school bully nickname, in any case. I was depressed enough already.
posted by potrzebie at 12:25 AM on September 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

In the height of the post 9/11 flag-on-car mania, this dude I know almost plowed into a SUV because its owner, some suit guy, had realized his flag had fallen off his car and slammed on his brakes so he could leap out to retrieve it. This suit dude, I'd argue, along with our POTUS, had lost his privilege to venerate the flag by being a dumbfuck about it. No more flag worship for you.

Mostly, I get why people are attached to the flag, and I'm attached to it too. Long ago I was robbed and therefore broke and desperate in Mexico City, and I still remember how it felt when I saw the Marines in front of the U.S. embassy. The flag then symbolized hope and home. I was proud of this country during the Obama years. I know it wasn't all roses and ponies, but we were trying. The flag symbolized that.

Now the flag as a symbol is so sad to me. It's like, "Man, he was a great guy before he started doing meth" kind of feeling.

So this feels like the cold civil war has developed into some metonymic new battlefield.
posted by angrycat at 1:47 AM on September 24, 2017 [14 favorites]

I first went to the US in 1991, shortly after Operation Desert Storm. The place had a bad attack of the flags from that particular piece of military adventurism. I also still have a trading card celebrating the war. It depicts carpet bombing. All you see is a horizon and several plumes. America was weird before 9/11 too.
posted by stonepharisee at 2:05 AM on September 24, 2017 [12 favorites]

Oh yes. How many Western countries make kids pledge allegiance to the motherland?
posted by Joe in Australia at 2:14 AM on September 24, 2017 [13 favorites]

Apropos of nothing, did you all see that meme of the clown from tempting Georgie into the drain with the news that "Obama is still president down here?"

Ha ha. Saw it days ago and it still gets a chuckle out of me. Ha.
posted by angrycat at 2:29 AM on September 24, 2017 [8 favorites]

I mean... I could float. Down there. A Lovecraftian clown with several rows of angler teeth studding a set of mossy gums ain't got nothing on the White Pride Piper at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.
posted by xyzzy at 3:20 AM on September 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

I hope the owners who donated millions to him wake up this morning to a call for a boycott of their league and wonder how the leopard ate their face.

@realDonaldTrump:
If NFL fans refuse to go to games until players stop disrespecting our Flag & Country, you will see change take place fast. Fire or suspend!
posted by chris24 at 3:49 AM on September 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

This fucking guy.

You gotta hand it to Trump, he does keep surprising his audience. And, at the same time, everything he does is perfectly predictable.

It is regularly astounding. From a governance point of view I imagine it's an utter disaster (even bend what we can actually see through the media - I imagine the bureaucrats who actually get the work of government done must be tearing their hair out.)

Never thought times would ever get this interesting, and I'm sure there's even more to come.
posted by From Bklyn at 3:58 AM on September 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

I think this NFL thing has traction. My husband is as liberal as I am, but he tends to be a lot quieter. I have never heard him initiate conversation about politics except with family. Last night we were at a church event and I heard him bring up the tweets to another guy and express his disgust. I gues he's used to talking sports with other dudes so those wasn't a stretch? I don't know, but I was proud of him.
posted by Biblio at 4:16 AM on September 24, 2017 [27 favorites]

Crossing the thtreams a little with:

@barry "The nerds are complaining about women in tech and the jocks are the face of social change, what a world"
posted by Buntix at 4:34 AM on September 24, 2017 [57 favorites]

But still, for me, watching someone disrespect the flag is like watching someone desecrate the cross.

"No one can serve two masters."
posted by EarBucket at 4:37 AM on September 24, 2017 [8 favorites]

"No one can serve two masters."

Google image search: american flag crucifix.

It actually managed to be more horrifying than I even imagined while typing it in.
posted by Buntix at 4:42 AM on September 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

Ahahaha, he's picked a fight with football? Maybe he can start talking shit about nascar or beer next.
posted by ryanrs at 4:52 AM on September 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

"No one can serve two masters."

As someone who has had both spouse and child, I respectfully disagree.

From my redcoated perspective, the American holy trinity of flag, God and country is an exemplar of leaving your hot buttons out for anyone to press, and that always worries me - look at the people who press them. You can love all three fervently as part of your identity, and entirely independently of whatever else you are or choose to be, but with love comes responsibility and the obligation to guard from harm.

How is God being served by those in power who claim to serve him?
How is the flag being served ditto? The country?

In all three cases today, I say that those who most fervently claim to be justified by these ideas are most potently traducing them. It's hard work fighting that, but ya gotta.
posted by Devonian at 4:54 AM on September 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

One deleted. Sorry, but we can't sustain a big derail here about how people are dealing with their pro-Trump families. There's another place that might suit the bill, though.
posted by taz (staff) at 4:57 AM on September 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

Really baffled at all the flag hate here.
posted by Melismata at 5:07 AM on September 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

Really baffled at all the flag hate here.

I don't think there's flag hate. I think there's hate for a racist system and how people who are defending that racist system are trying to make it about worshipping a physical thing instead of what the flag represents.
posted by chris24 at 5:11 AM on September 24, 2017 [62 favorites]

Actually, assholes trying to make this mostly about the flag is a breath of fresh air. The old "but what about black on black crime" deflection was getting stale.
posted by Groundhog Week at 5:16 AM on September 24, 2017 [8 favorites]

above comment should say "racist assholes"
posted by Groundhog Week at 5:19 AM on September 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

Always fun when the leopard eats its own face.

CNN Poll: Opinion of the Republican Party falls to all-time low

Fewer than three in 10 Americans -- 29% -- hold a favorable view of the Republican Party according to a new CNN poll conducted by SSRS. That is down 13 percentage points from March and is the lowest mark for the GOP since CNN began asking the question in 1992.

The previous low point for the GOP was 30% -- hit twice -- in October 2013 following the federal government shutdown over President Barack Obama's health care law, and December 1998, in the wake of the House of Representatives approving two articles of impeachment against then President Bill Clinton.

Overall, 20% of Americans approve of the way Republican leaders in Congress are handling their jobs, while 72% disapprove. That includes just 39% of Republicans who approve of the job GOP leaders are doing.

Republicans are signaling they prefer President Donald Trump's vision for the party, with 79% saying he is taking it in the right direction. A majority of GOP voters -- 53% -- believe Republican leaders in Congress are taking the party in the wrong direction.

posted by chris24 at 5:22 AM on September 24, 2017 [21 favorites]

Really baffled at all the flag hate here.

Personally, I'm baffled at all the confusion over what consitutes "respect" for the flag. Those opposing the protests are saying that taking the knee constitutes "disrespect" for the flag. But the flag code clearly states what is and is not respectful.

A self-described "3rd generation vet" just tweeted out a series of quotes from the code, along with some helpful illustrations for what disrespect of that sort means: you should never display it horizontally. You should never use it as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery. You should never use it in advertising, "for any purposes whatsoever." You should never embroider it on cushions or other decorative things. You should never print it on paper napkins, paper plates, "or any other item that is designed for temporary use and then discard." You should never use it as part of a costume or athletic uniform.

IF this is really about the flag itself, there's a whole lot more worse shit going on already. And we're cool with that. So why is this causing more of a to-do than selling American flag toilet paper or something?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:23 AM on September 24, 2017 [69 favorites]

I hate the flag because of the assholes who fly it. I started after 9/11 when the flag being everywhere was gross and obligatory and went along with the islamophobic rhetoric. So when I see the flag it reminds me of the first time I really felt like I didn't belong here. So yeah, it's me and Olaf glad and big hating the flag.
posted by winna at 5:25 AM on September 24, 2017 [15 favorites]

Since it seems to be a poll morning... from ABC:

- 39% approve, 57% disapprove, the lowest mark at 8 months into a presidency in 71 years

- Brought needed change to the country? 39% Yes, 59% No

- Done more to unite/divide the country? 28% Unite, 66% Divide

That 28% Unite is almost right on the crazification factor.
posted by chris24 at 5:35 AM on September 24, 2017 [11 favorites]

Fewer than three in 10 Americans -- 29% -- hold a favorable view of the Republican Party according to a new CNN poll conducted by SSRS. That is down 13 percentage points from March and is the lowest mark for the GOP since CNN began asking the question in 1992.

Maybe encouraging but how many of those respondents are mad at the Republicans for not being even more horrible than they already are? I'd bet that a significant percentage of the people expressing negative views of them are mad that they haven't destroyed Obamacare, banned abortion, built the wall and rounded up all the 'illegals' at gunpoint and shipped them out of the country.
posted by octothorpe at 5:38 AM on September 24, 2017 [9 favorites]

Even Trump supporter and donor Bob Kraft of the Patriots has released a statement on Trump.

"I am deeply disappointed by the tone of the comments made by the President on Friday. I am proud to be associated with so many players who make such tremendous contributions in positively impacting our communities. Their efforts, both on and off the field, help bring people together and make our communitg stronger. There is no greater unifier in this country than sports, and unfortunately, nothing more divisive than politics. I think our political leaders could learn a lot from the lessons of teamwork and the importance of working together toward a common goal. Our players are intelligent, thoughtful and care deeply about our community and I support their right to peacefully affect social change and raise awareness in a manner that they feel is most impactful."

posted by chris24 at 5:39 AM on September 24, 2017 [15 favorites]

Maybe encouraging but how many of those respondents are mad at the Republicans for not being even more horrible than they already are?

Very possible, but if it makes them stay home November '18, I'll take it.
posted by chris24 at 5:40 AM on September 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

Oh yes. How many Western countries make kids pledge allegiance to the motherland?
posted by Joe in Australia at 6:14 PM on September 24 [4 favorites +] [!]

Why don't you just say "fascist hellscape" instead of "Western" so much obfuscation these days I mean jeez
posted by saysthis at 5:45 AM on September 24, 2017

Fewer than three in 10 Americans -- 29% -- hold a favorable view of the Republican Party according to a new CNN poll conducted by SSRS.

It's progress but I imagine them all going, but I'm still going to vote for them.
posted by drezdn at 5:46 AM on September 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

Report: Raiders offensive line plans to kneel as a group

The Raiders aren’t going to follow through on the President’s command to fire any player who kneels for the national anthem. Because if they did, they’d be without their entire offensive line.

According to Ian Rapoport of the NFL Network, the Raiders starting line intends to sit or kneel as a group during today’s anthem before their game against Washington. Left tackle Donald Penn, left guard Kelechi Osemele, center Rodney Hudson, right guard Gabe Jackson and right tackle Marshall Newhouse comprise the only all-African-American line in the NFL, and they likely won’t be alone.

posted by chris24 at 5:53 AM on September 24, 2017 [39 favorites]

'To Donald Trump,' by Leland Melvin, former NASA Astronaut and NFL Player [cute dog pic warning]
posted by Buntix at 6:13 AM on September 24, 2017 [30 favorites]

And this bullshit of standing for the anthem didn't even start until 2009, when the DoD started paying for it. From last September in VICE:

Late last month, as the country was only just becoming consumed by Colin Kaepernick, Tom E. Curran of Comcast Sportsnet New England reported that, actually, NFL players did not typically stand for the national anthem until 2009. Somehow this escaped many of us until, uh, Stephen A. Smith highlighted it this morning on First Take.

Responding to a tip from one of his "boys," Smith brought up the fact that until 2009—eight years and a new Presidential administration after 9/11—players weren't on the field for the national anthem and instead generally remained in the locker room. According to Smith's boy (and the researcher at ESPN who checked it), the switch happened "because it was seen as a marketing strategy to make the athletes look more patriotic."

Here's what Curran had to say on August 29th:
It's a tribute to the NFL's ability to drape itself in the flag that nobody even realizes that – prior to 2009 – players being on the field for the national anthem wasn't even standard practice.

NFL spokesman Brian McCarthy confirmed this morning the practice began in 2009, adding, 'As you know, the NFL has a long tradition of patriotism. Players are encouraged but not required to stand for the anthem.'
Add in the fact that the NFL received millions of taxpayer dollars from the Department of Defense and the National Guard for patriotic displays, and it puts the entire Kaepernick hullabaloo in a different light. "Fans should have confidence that their hometown heroes are being honored because of their honorable military service, not as a marketing ploy," Senator John McCain, the Vietnam War veteran and P.O.W., said in a statement last year coinciding with "Tackling Paid Patriotism," a joint oversight report released by McCain and his fellow Arizona Republican Senator John Flake.

posted by chris24 at 6:15 AM on September 24, 2017 [68 favorites]

I don't hate the flag. I hate what millions do and have done in its name. I hate the mentality that either it or the country it represents is above criticism. I hate that jingoistic shitheads wrap themselves in it while acting in hateful, self-absorbed and divisive ways. I hate that they equate not paying homage "properly" to symbols as anti-Americanism. I hate those who paste it onto every soldier who's ever served in any capacity in any of our 3.85437E+14 military campaigns, or who equate young lives thrown into meat grinders or millions murdered overseas as "protecting our American way of life." I hate that it's the year 2017 and big chunks of America are STILL stuck in the same racial superiority quagmire that their distant forefathers were, and have the gall to declare it as respectable and as heritage.

That's all. Continue.
posted by delfin at 6:19 AM on September 24, 2017 [50 favorites]

Tom E. Curran of Comcast Sportsnet New England reported that, actually, NFL players did not typically stand for the national anthem until 2009

This might be my favorite "well, actually" in a while.
posted by chris24 at 6:23 AM on September 24, 2017 [14 favorites]

@joshchafetz
1/ Specific content aside, it is telling that not only individual athletes but also teams now feel the need to respond critically to Trump.
2/ These are deeply brand-conscious entities. They wouldn't be doing it en masse if they didn't think their publics wanted them to.
3/ And as more do it (the Pats!), pressure will grow on the ones that haven't.
4/ To state the obvious, this would not be the response to comments by a president who was doing well in the public sphere.
5/5 It both demonstrates Trump's weakness as a Neustadtian president (cc: @MattGlassman312) and participates in further weakening him.
posted by chris24 at 6:29 AM on September 24, 2017 [24 favorites]

I don't hate the flag either. It's useful as a national symbol. It can represent a lot of great progressive history. It can look nice waving in a gentle midwestern breeze to the music of cicadas and above the smell of grilling meats.

And when it's used as a cudgel of social control by people actively destroying the world and those in their thrall, it produces a very pretty flame and can also serve as a heat source.
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:31 AM on September 24, 2017 [27 favorites]

87-year old actor and activist Ed Asner:

Ed Asner @TheOnlyEdAsner
I am taking a knee on Sunday. I might need someone to help me up.
posted by Room 641-A at 6:35 AM on September 24, 2017 [66 favorites]

Puerto Rico is basically destroyed and Trump has us all arguing over the flag code.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:37 AM on September 24, 2017 [36 favorites]

Nothing we do or don't do will make Trump care about the people in Puerto Rico.
posted by melissasaurus at 6:41 AM on September 24, 2017 [19 favorites]

Puerto Rico is basically destroyed and Trump has us all arguing over the flag code.

I get this, but it's not really about the flag code. Or the anthem. It's about systemic and overt racism, police brutality, and the rise of fascism in the US. I definitely think we need to focus on and help Puerto Rico, but there's also been a lot of people making similar comments about how Trump's tweet about North Korea last night was way more important than the NFL stuff. Which is just another way of pushing down PoC's rightful outrage down to something not as important as "real" issues. It is as important as North Korea or whatever else is happening in the world.

@NateSilver538
Threatening to annihilate a nuclear-armed country is maybe just a *wee* bit more important than his opinion on the NFL?
posted by chris24 at 6:44 AM on September 24, 2017 [32 favorites]

Some more info on Bruce Maxwell, the first baseball player to kneel.

@hbryant42 (ESPN)
Respect for Bruce Maxwell because:
1) He's a rookie
2) There are only 64 black players in MLB
3) He is now vulnerable
4) Did it anyway

---

Thankfully, the Oakland As issued a statement in support.

The Oakland As pride ourselves on being inclusive. We respect and support all players' constitutional rights and freedom of expression.

posted by chris24 at 6:53 AM on September 24, 2017 [40 favorites]

So I went to the opera last week and before the show they brought out the flag and the orchestra played the national anthem, and, uh, that was kind of disconcerting. Like, it's not one of those events they typically play the anthem at? Is this new? It feels like it's new and I' not sure I'm a big fan because it really is the creep of performative patriotism. They don't, for a point of contrast, play the anthem before performances at our city's premier theater. Then again, said theater just spent 7 hours showing us how fucked up America got in the 80s, so performative patriotism isn't exactly their jam.

(And, no, it wasn't diegetic music to set the tone for an opera set in America, which Ariadne auf Naxos isn't. It was entirely separate from the show itself)
posted by jackbishop at 6:57 AM on September 24, 2017 [15 favorites]

They started doing that a while ago down here at the symphony and see my previous comment on how I hate the flag and our racist national anthem.
posted by winna at 6:58 AM on September 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

Obligatory. #thereisalwaysatweet

And of course it's defending racism. 2013.

@realDonaldTrump
President should not be telling the Washington Redskins to change their name-our country has far bigger problems! FOCUS on them,not nonsense
posted by chris24 at 7:07 AM on September 24, 2017 [12 favorites]

7 members of the Ravens and 10 members of the Jaguars took a knee while the U.S. national anthem was being played before their game today in London*.

*Which is a whole 'nother basket of weird. We even inflict this on other countries?
posted by schmod at 7:11 AM on September 24, 2017 [11 favorites]

So I went to the opera last week and before the show they brought out the flag and the orchestra played the national anthem, and, uh, that was kind of disconcerting. Like, it's not one of those events they typically play the anthem at? Is this new?

it is new, it is completely unheard of, it is disgusting, it is the worst theater story I ever heard, and everybody should have walked out, or at the very least gasped and dropped their opera glasses. I am alarmed that you don't report the audience's audible reaction, as if there wasn't one.

it's been a couple years since I last went to the opera but not THAT many years and if this happens to me next time I go I will destroy the earth and all who dwell on it.
posted by queenofbithynia at 7:13 AM on September 24, 2017 [30 favorites]

Jags owner Sal Khan was on the field with arms locked with players. Does that make up for giving $1mil to the Trump campaign to begin with? Notable that it took Trump threatening the NFL by telling people to boycott games.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:20 AM on September 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

Right, because standing up for one's self and fellow citizens' right to not be murdered by elements of the state is against "flag and country". He may as well say what he means: That anyone who's against white supremacy (but especially black people) are "forgetting their place" and he's going to "deal" with us.

MY family's been in this country longer than his—some of us for as long as 20,000 years!—and we weren't goddamned grifters like his family has been since they fucking left Germany. And now HE'S threatening US. Look at this shit. He can absolutely go fuck himself. He literally would start Civil War II simply to assuage his tiny white ego because the mean, nasty black people won't take his shit like everyone else does.

I don't give a fuck about a goddamned flag or anthem. I have never stood for, or taken the pledge, and I have never stood for or put my hand over my heart for the anthem or the flag. NEVER. Even when I'd gotten in trouble in grade school over it. Because it's bullshit, and I gave my teachers and principals that reason in the age-appropriate way, and bless, when they would call my guardian about it, for once she had my back.

How am I supposed to pledge loyalty to a country that murdered, raped, and enslaved my ancestors, and stole their lands, and have treated us as people to be picked off whenever white folks felt like it? And now they want this performative bullshit so they don't feel bad? Or so that they can forget what happened and ignore what continues to happen, and we play "Happy Free Country"? I haven't forgotten or ignored shit!

This isn't Watergate, and this isn't Nixon, and Mueller needs to hurry the fuck up.
posted by droplet at 7:28 AM on September 24, 2017 [106 favorites]

Mnuchin: NFL players ‘can do free speech on their own time’ (Julia Manchester, The Hill)

"This isn't about Democrats, it's not about Republicans, it's not about race, it's not about free speech. They can do free speech on their own time. That this is about respect for the military and first responders in the country," he continued.

U bum.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:30 AM on September 24, 2017 [21 favorites]

Puerto Rico is basically destroyed and Trump has us all arguing over the flag code.

Lindsey Graham is "pressing on" with his bill to devastate American health care, and Trump has us all arguing over the flag code.

Kim Jong-un is threatening an h-bomb test over the Pacific, US bombers are flying over the North Korean coast in a show of force, and Trump has us all arguing over the flag code.

The DHS informed election officials in 21 U.S. states that hackers had targeted their systems ahead of the 2016 presidential election, former director of national intelligence James Clapper stated bluntly that Russian interference "cast doubt on the legitimacy of his victory in the election", and Trump has us all arguing over the flag code.

I'm not implying that this is a deliberate strategy by Trump to distract the American public with manufactured outrage, but whatever it is, it seems to be working.
posted by Doktor Zed at 7:31 AM on September 24, 2017 [34 favorites]

In some fine arts venues it's traditional to play the anthem at the first performance of the season; I believe this is a holdover from European roots. In the UK, fine arts ensembles that enjoy the Queen's patronage sometimes do "God Save the Queen" before the first concert of the season (plus any she happens to attend). In the US, the idea was, these are Civic organizations dedicating their season to the whole city and thanking the citizens for their patronage, a statement that in America, even the elite arts are democratic and belong to all.

So it it's the first concert of the season and it's traditional, I'd be like, Well, this is not currently great symbolism, but okay, it's a civic tradition celebrating the democratic appeal of the arts. Any other situation I'd probably call the organization and tell them it was uncomfortable, weird, divisive, and jingoistic and I was not a fan.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 7:38 AM on September 24, 2017 [8 favorites]

Hey, Mnuchin: do your free speech on your own time, when you aren't acting as a representative to taxpayers!
posted by Archelaus at 7:40 AM on September 24, 2017 [24 favorites]

That this is about respect for the military and first responders in the country

Fuck him. 40% of the military are POC. And the feelings of the military are not more important than the rights of its citizens.
posted by chris24 at 7:40 AM on September 24, 2017 [61 favorites]

It all matters. We have to pay attention to all of it - PR, police brutality, ICE, healthcare, North Korea. Nothing is a distraction. It all matters.

If you're tired, take a day of rest, recharge. But don't tell other people not to care about shit that matters. Look at whats been going down in STL this week before you act like police brutality isn't worth the ink and effort.
posted by melissasaurus at 7:41 AM on September 24, 2017 [70 favorites]

People in this thread and elsewhere have explained that the reactions to Trump's NFL comments aren't about flag codes, it's about police brutality and racism. The fact that a couple of people here are beanplating the flag code doesn't change that. It also bears repeating that one can be concerned about multiple things at once, including flag codes.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:41 AM on September 24, 2017 [10 favorites]

> Jags owner Sal Khan was on the field with arms locked with players. Does that make up for giving $1mil to the Trump campaign to begin with?

G K Chesterton would not have been surprised by the NFL owners' response: "The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all."
posted by klarck at 7:43 AM on September 24, 2017 [38 favorites]

I'm not implying that this is a deliberate strategy by Trump to distract the American public with manufactured outrage, but whatever it is, it seems to be working.

Put aside the idea, as other people have articulated better than me, that this standing-for-the-anthem thing is actually matters quite a lot and gets right to the heart of discussing the treatment of POC and minorities in this country. What I don't understand about the "[X horrific thing] is just a distraction so that [Y horrific thing] will slip past!" position are:

(1) we are also talking about all that other horrific shit, simultaneously, so if it's a deliberate distraction it's not a very good one
(2) what would further talking amongst ourselves about that other horrific shit actually accomplish — we are not going to effect change on Trump's NK position, Graham-Cassidy, etc. if only we just concentrated on it even harder, staring steely-eyed and Pence-like at it from across the border
(3) Trump's miserable bullshit about these athletes, calling them sons of bitches and saying they should be fired, is wildly unpopular; it shows a weakness he has and an advantage his enemies have, and it seems like we should press all advantages
posted by penduluum at 7:45 AM on September 24, 2017 [29 favorites]

They can do free speech on their own time. That this is about respect for the military and first responders in the country,

So he's basically proposing that civilians should be drummed out of their jobs for insubordination to the military.
posted by XMLicious at 7:46 AM on September 24, 2017 [19 favorites]

They can do free speech on their own time.

Mnuchin can 'do' his 3rd, 4th, 5th and 8th amendment rights on his own time. While he's at work, troops will be quartered in his home while a camera looks into his orifices until he admits that he's a shitheel.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:49 AM on September 24, 2017 [11 favorites]

New thread soon? This one barely loads for me
posted by agregoli at 7:52 AM on September 24, 2017

Things had been going so well for the Administration the last couple of weeks, and it was starting to show up in poll numbers. Then some gaffes at the UN (“Rocket Man”) and some bad press and he goes back to the racist, shit-stirrer well.

General Chief-of-Staff may have met his match.
posted by notyou at 7:54 AM on September 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

all Trump needs to do is call for Clinton to be silenced, and half of social media will cheer him on.

Judging from the other thread, Metafilter would also be full of cheers. Let's not pretend we're immune to cheering on tyrants when they go after our most hated targets.
posted by palomar at 8:01 AM on September 24, 2017 [12 favorites]

(because well-constructed buildings wouldn't have collapsed)

Yeeeah, so, about that. Since a certain indelible date just passed, it got me a-thinkin': isn't Alex "Inside Job" Jones besties with the guy in the White House now? Maybe he could see all that commandeered Pentagon footage or whatever? Seems like questions could be answered fairly straightforwardly, and considering the implications it's - odd? - that no one from the Jonesers to the MAGAs have done or said anything about . . y'know.
posted by petebest at 8:05 AM on September 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

Trump's Sports Attacks: Racist, and Also Easier Than Healthcare and North Korea

Obviously, President Trump is attacking anti-racist pro athletes because he's a bigoted white guy. But there's more going on than that. There's also this:
1. People say Trump’s exploitation of white rage is a side show, designed to distract from more important issues. Wrong.

2. White rage is not a side show. This is the only thing he knows how to do. He couldn’t be bothered to learn basic facts on healthcare

[...]

But this all adds up to a longing for a safe space in which problems are easily solved by wisecracking tough guys, enemies are shown their place, and real Americans can kick back on Sunday and watch hours of football without having their enjoyment sullied by appeals to social conscience or acknowledgment that the game's physical brutality damages lives. The paradise Trump conjures up for his overwhelmingly white fans is ultimately one in which they get everything they want, and the only cost is to people they don't like or, in the case of professional athletes, don't respect as human beings. And there's also the ego stroking: Our people are tough, as if the fans at that Lakeville campaign rally were personally taking vicious hits.

It's a dog's breakfast, but it all adds up to: We rule. Anyone who disagrees with us sucks and isn't worthy of the slightest respect.

posted by tonycpsu at 8:07 AM on September 24, 2017 [56 favorites]

this level of unquestioning, starry-eyed veneration for a song that praises slavery is deeply troubling

There's not much consensus on that third stanza, is the problem. It could be referring to American slaves taken aboard British ships and freed to fight, but the way I always learned it was as a reference to the one of the main belligerent causes of the War of 1812 itself - the fact that the English Navy made up their ranks by impressing sailors.

Despite the fact that the English Navy's unofficial anthem was "Rule, Brittania", which included the line "Britons never shall be slaves", the British Navy resorted to kidnapping to fill their ranks, and brutal discipline to prevent escape. So essentially, the way I've always read that third verse is a way of thumbing the nose at the British - remember, it was never intended as an anthem - for being hypocrites, and adding "and it won't help you, anyway, free men will always win."
posted by corb at 8:26 AM on September 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

"But Old One, what were so many of your political and media leaders doing just before the nuclear war?"

"Telling Hillary Clinton she shouldn't write a book and black men to stand for a song."
posted by NorthernLite at 8:26 AM on September 24, 2017 [33 favorites]

@JamieErdahl: "Mike Tomlin just told me @NFLonCBS #Steelers will NOT be participating in the #NationalAnthem today in CHI. Staying in the locker room."
posted by cashman at 8:28 AM on September 24, 2017 [29 favorites]

You'll have to excuse me for giving tremendous side-eye to this jingoistic explaining away of the problems with the anthem, but since its coming from someone deeply indoctrinated to worship these symbols, none of it sits right.
posted by palomar at 8:30 AM on September 24, 2017 [9 favorites]

tonycpsu, precisely. This dovetails with the dehumanization of anyone conservatives don't like, the treatment of elected Democrats as inherently illegitimate, the shouts of "if you don't like it, move," and huge chunks of American history. The hard right expects obedience because they view no one else as equals.
posted by delfin at 8:31 AM on September 24, 2017 [10 favorites]

"The Star-Spangled Banner" was recognized for official use by the United States Navy in 1889, and by U.S. President Woodrow Wilson in 1916, and was made the national anthem by a congressional resolution on March 3, 1931 (46 Stat. 1508, codified at 36 U.S.C. § 301), which was signed by President Herbert Hoover.

Before 1931, other songs served as the hymns of American officialdom. "Hail, Columbia" served this purpose at official functions for most of the 19th century. "My Country, 'Tis of Thee", whose melody is identical to "God Save the Queen", the British national anthem,[3] also served as a de facto anthem.[4] Following the War of 1812 and subsequent American wars, other songs emerged to compete for popularity at public events, among them "The Star-Spangled Banner", as well as "America the Beautiful".

Basically we codified and settled on the Star-Spangled Banner because we needed to get people riled up for war. And once it's codified and settled, it has the added bonus of eliminating other avenues of thought and POVs. You'll note Congress codified it around the same time we adopted the flag code.

A few years later, we would drop the Bellamy salute from the Pledge of Allegiance. A decade or so after that, the phrase "under God" was added because teh commies.
posted by entropicamericana at 8:33 AM on September 24, 2017 [19 favorites]

corb I spent the first ten years of my adulthood in the military. When the anthem plays, the flag is brought out or retired, on a military base, there is a perfect stillness of a sort that rises above that of most funerals, even.

I think part of the dissonance here is that most of us are more shocked, outraged, and horrified at the disrespect and violence our nation is dishing out to minorities than we are at a minor bit of protest at the anthem.

The flag is a symbol of the nation. If the nation is doing wrong, how can the symbol be a source of reverence? That's the whole point of the take a knee protests. It's why during the 1968 Olympics black American athletes raised the black power fist rather than showing respect for the flag.

Why should anyone respect the flag if the nation doesn't respect them?

If you want them to respect the flag then the proper course of action is to make it worthy of respect.

Right now, the flag isn't worthy of respect. It stands for a nation that cheerfully, gleefully, murders black men and boys by job lots and rewards the murderers. It stands for a nation that has a policy of grinding black people into abject poverty through a cruel "War on Drugs" that ignores white drug crime to focus with laserlike intensity on black people. It stands for a country where simply saying "black lives matter" is a revolutionary and radical thing. Who in their right mind can respect that?

You obsess over the flag touching the ground, of people facing it with a public show of reverence, as if that can possibly sully a flag already dripping with the blood of innocent people.
posted by sotonohito at 8:35 AM on September 24, 2017 [95 favorites]

well, i guess we know what to do if we really want to piss off the trumpites - if they want to live in a country where their symbols are respected, then let's insist on change - let's tell them they have to EARN that respect
posted by pyramid termite at 8:41 AM on September 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

It takes WORK to make NFL owners look good in comparison but Trump managed it. Wow.
posted by lydhre at 8:49 AM on September 24, 2017 [43 favorites]

Apparently when the US joined World War 1, some well-meaning British group made a whole load of welcome packs for arriving US soldiers which, among other things, included stars and stripes underwear. So somebody had to explain to them that Americans take their flag more seriously than we do the Union Jack.
posted by Bloxworth Snout at 8:51 AM on September 24, 2017 [8 favorites]

srsly though folks there's way better things to place your devotion in than the united states government. it's a crap organization.

and star spangled banner kind of sucks. I say if you gotta get all patriotic about a song (if you gotta), your best options are either "This Land is Your Land" or "Nazi Punks Fuck Off."
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 8:56 AM on September 24, 2017 [10 favorites]

I realize that I'm very much part of a minority religious tradition, but I find flag reverence to be kind of sacrilegious? I mean, I'm not going to tell other people how to do their religions, but to me, you're not supposed to treat secular symbols with religious reverence. We may obey secular authority, but we don't worship it. I think some American attitudes towards the flag are getting into idolatry territory.

I realize that I dodged a bullet, because I was invited to a tailgating fundraiser yesterday for an organization that I'm involved with. I decided not to go, because I'm not sure I can fake football fandom, and I don't want to offend the potential big donors. And now I'm really glad I didn't, because I assume that the topic of the national anthem protests would have come up, and I'm in no mood to be diplomatic about this. And I'm not sure that I can stand for the anthem right now. I respect and love my country, and that means respecting and loving my country's tradition of dissent and protest. Joining in protest is how I express my patriotism, and I maintain that's every bit as valid a way to express patriotism as saluting the flag is.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 8:57 AM on September 24, 2017 [19 favorites]

AND the jingoistic saber-rattling against North Korea, the attack on health care, it’s part and parcel of White Supremacy, American Style, truer than the red, white, and blue.

“It all adds up to: We rule.”

Exactly.
posted by droplet at 9:02 AM on September 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

Ted Lieu
Ted Lieu @tedlieu
Dear @stevenmnuchin1: I am beginning to think that in govt, you are stupid as a rock. US Constitution also applies to NFL players. Get it?

‘I’m pissed off, I supported Donald Trump’: Ex-NFL coach Rex Ryan hammers president over anthem attack (Tom Boggioni, Raw Story)

Exclusive: NFL airing unity ad in prime time on Sunday (Brian Stetler, CNN)
posted by Room 641-A at 9:03 AM on September 24, 2017 [12 favorites]

@Yashar Ali: "Breaking: Senator Ted Cruz has just announced, in a speech in Austin, TX, that he's NOT supporting Graham-Cassidy."

What the actual fuck is even happening? I mean, good I guess, but...what?
posted by corb at 9:04 AM on September 24, 2017 [22 favorites]

@Yashar Ali: "Breaking: Senator Ted Cruz has just announced, in a speech in Austin, TX, that he's NOT supporting Graham-Cassidy."

I highly doubt he'd really vote no, but saying that is a good sign that we might see a jailbreak this week.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:05 AM on September 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

I think the Cruz thing is actually kind of ominous. He said something about wanting to see changes. I think they're going to make some "changes" and then have another stab at pressuring the holdouts, who will have cover to change their minds because of the dumb-ass "changes." It's only for another week, but we have to keep the pressure on until September 30th.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 9:05 AM on September 24, 2017 [14 favorites]

In some fine arts venues it's traditional to play the anthem at the first performance of the season; I believe this is a holdover from European roots.

This is useful context and somewhat comforting (the show I went to was indeed a season premiere). Still felt very weird though.
posted by jackbishop at 9:07 AM on September 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

"This Land is Your Land" isn't exactly without problems either.
posted by fragmede at 9:08 AM on September 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

I've never been to a sporting event where people acted like they actually cared about the anthem much. A lot of people stood certainly, but it felt like half the crowd was more focused on their beer and soft pretzels than meditating on what it means to be an American citizen
posted by downtohisturtles at 9:13 AM on September 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

The Hill's report on Ted Cruz's statement on Graham-Cassidy is far more... waffly... than captured in that tweet.

"Now, I want to be a yes,"... and "We said if you take these edits we're a yes."

http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/senate/352133-cruz-obamacare-repeal-bill-doesnt-have-my-support-yet
posted by fragmede at 9:15 AM on September 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

and star spangled banner kind of sucks.

There were one quadrillion nations in the universe, but the nation Dwayne Hoover and Kilgore Trout belonged to was the only one with a national anthem which was gibberish sprinkled with question marks.
[...]
It was the law of their nation, a law no other nation on the planet had about their flag, which said this: "The flag shall not be dipped to any person or thing."
[...]
The motto of Dwayne Hoover's and Kilgore Trout's nation was this, which meant in a language nobody spoke anymore, Out of Many, One: "E pluribus unum."
The undippable flag was a beauty, and the anthem and the vacant motto might not have mattered much, if it weren't for this: a lot of citizens were so ignored and cheated and insulted that they thought they might be in the wrong country, or even on the wrong planet, that some terrible mistake had been made. It might have comforted them some if their anthem and their motto had mentioned fairness or brotherhood or hope or happiness, had somehow welcomed them to the society and its real estate.
[...]
Not even the President of the United States knew what that was all about. It was as though the country were saying to its citizens, "In nonsense is strength."
-Kurt Vonnegut, Breakfast of Chapions

posted by jackbishop at 9:17 AM on September 24, 2017 [45 favorites]

I bet that right now John Kelly is thinking, "I can't fuckimg believe I'm spending my Sunday afternoon rolling around on the floor of the oval office, trying to wrestle the phone away from the president of the united States."
posted by Room 641-A at 9:21 AM on September 24, 2017 [42 favorites]

@Yashar Ali: "Breaking: Senator Ted Cruz has just announced, in a speech in Austin, TX, that he's NOT supporting Graham-Cassidy."

What the actual fuck is even happening? I mean, good I guess, but...what?

Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold
posted by nubs at 9:26 AM on September 24, 2017 [16 favorites]

We Episcopalians have patriotic hymns in our hymnal, to truck out on holidays. It's very much up to the individual parish which songs they sing. One priest we had was against the anthem because she didn't think it was right to sing about bombs in church. I took issue with her over many other issues, but I always supported her on that one.
Now if we could get rid of the flags in the sanctuary...
posted by Biblio at 9:30 AM on September 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

I bet that right now John Kelly is thinking, "I can't fuckimg believe I'm spending my Sunday afternoon rolling around on the floor of the oval office, trying to wrestle the phone away from the president of the united States."

Wrestle with the one that brung ya.
posted by Servo5678 at 9:34 AM on September 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

Here is yet another reminder to call, fax, email and visit your senators to ask that they vote no on Graham-Cassidy.

1. CALL: The senate switchboard number is (202) 224-3121. Leave a message so your senators' staffers start the week with full voicemail boxes.

2. FAX: Use this site to fax your senators for free.

3. EMAIL: Use this site to find email addresses for your senators' healthcare staffers. Again, let them start the week innundated with constituent messages saying how bad this bill is.

4. VISIT: There are protests scheduled across the country this week. Find some of them here.

5. GET OTHER PEOPLE TO CALL: You can phone bank to get people in key states to call their senators. Here's the link.
posted by mcduff at 9:36 AM on September 24, 2017 [16 favorites]

From a tactical perspective, Trump going at it with the NFL players is something that might actually hurt him with his base. Not because they don't agree with Trump, but because the players are showing just how powerless and weak Trump is. Many of his followers support him for his imagined strength, any thing that reveals that lie damages him.
posted by drezdn at 9:37 AM on September 24, 2017 [18 favorites]

I think a lot of this is highly gendered, and going after the NFL is going after a real symbol of American masculinity. I think Trump's instincts have failed him here. It's kind of like Joe McCarthy and the army.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 9:40 AM on September 24, 2017 [14 favorites]

Nope. (IMO)
He's not going after the NFL - he's going after non-white "flag-haters". I think that is *real* popular with his base.
posted by Golem XIV at 9:45 AM on September 24, 2017 [11 favorites]

I have a story stimulated by Corb's comment above. The problem is that the flag is a military symbol and technology put to civilian purposes. The UCMJ doesn't apply to civilians either.

Anyway about 8 or so years ago I was on a long flight. My seatmate was a woman who worked as a teacher in a preschool on a major military base that sent lots of folks to die in Afghanistan and Iraq. In fact she was the teacher for the kids of special forces specifically, who faced particular emotional trauma as their parents were frequently deployed for unknown missions with unknown end dates under particularly risky conditions, and disproportionately didn't come back alive.

I had never even considered that the branch of service involved would have allowed for this accommodation to its brutal mission (despite having read Homefront, military brat and anthropologist Catherine Lutz's brilliant, moving ethnography of the Fort Bragg NC base community, which I cannot recommend highly enough) . So I was really interested to learn how she and her colleagues approached their job, which was at its worst when a child in the class lost a parent in combat.

I also told her about my work, and she took an interest in my photos of Arctic wildlife and landscapes and people. She kept saying how her students would love to learn about whales and polar bears and sea ice and asked if I could send her some pictures and write down what I had said about a few of them (ah the days before wifi on planes). We exchanged information and went our separate ways at Minneapolis.

A few days later I boxed up some prints of my photos and a bunch of random Arctic objects -- bits of bone, interesting rocks, a piece of caribou sinew thread, a tiny bit of sealskin, and the like, all labeled. I emailed her a PowerPoint deck with the photos and simple captions and mailed the box of to Fort XXX.

About a month later I received a giant poster tube in the mail. Inside was a handmade flag done in kid-safe paint on a light blue rectangular sheet of paper that is approximately 3 feet high and four feet long.

The blue square of stars and each of the stripes is composed of the handprints of the kids in her class, chained together one after the other. It is so beautifully and perfectly done that I suspected this wasn't the first time they'd made such a thing. And it wasn't. She sent me an email saying that the class made a "handprint flag" for every parent of a classmate who was deployed, and made one for me to thank me for sending a box of cool stuff.

That flag has hung on my wall above my guitar amps ever since. It still moves me. Something like this: if we could see nationalist symbols as made up of the fervent hopes of powerless children and their devoted protectors, I would find a lot more worth saluting in them.

I made my profile pic a shot of my studio where you can see the flag at back. I didn't have a good close up on the phone, but you can figure out how the rest of it looks from my profile.
posted by spitbull at 9:54 AM on September 24, 2017 [174 favorites]

They can do free speech on their own time.

To paraphrase something I saw on the Twitter... Saying you don't have 1A rights at work is an interesting argument for an administration arguing that bakers can refuse service to gays for religious reasons.
posted by chris24 at 10:00 AM on September 24, 2017 [80 favorites]

@Yashar Ali: "Breaking: Senator Ted Cruz has just announced, in a speech in Austin, TX, that he's NOT supporting Graham-Cassidy."

What the actual fuck is even happening? I mean, good I guess, but...what?

The thing about the chaotic evil alignment is that it is really crap at organizing and agreeing on the specifics of the evil they want to do.
posted by srboisvert at 10:00 AM on September 24, 2017 [23 favorites]

My guess is that Ted is just trying to get Texas a bigger piece of the block grant pie and will come around as soon as Mr. Turtle allocates some more of New York's money to Texas.
posted by jferg at 10:07 AM on September 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

How can Texas get a bigger piece though? They already have the biggest piece.
posted by zrail at 10:13 AM on September 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

Thanks for sharing that, spitbull. Flagged for awesome.
posted by Dashy at 10:13 AM on September 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

How can Texas get a bigger piece though? They already have the biggest piece.

It's not about the biggest piece, it's about other people getting less.
posted by Talez at 10:25 AM on September 24, 2017 [13 favorites]

So essentially, the way I've always read that third verse is a way of thumbing the nose at the British

You can cling to your racist interpretation if it makes you feel better, but it is pretty clear what Key was thinking when he wrote:
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave

He wasn't talking about impressed sailors. Impressed sailors in the popular view were regarded as defiant Americans, not slaves. You really think Key was celebrating the death of impressed American citizens? That in itself is pretty damn twisted, but I guess that's where you have to go to deny the racism.

But no, it was clear what Key was thinking of. During the War of 1812, over 6000 slaves escaped to freedom by serving in the British Navy. Most famous and feared among them were the Corps of Colonial Marines. Slaveholders and Key among them were terrified at the prospect of widespread slave rebellion.

Key was present just three weeks previous to writing this verse at the burning of Washington at the hands of the ex-slave Colonial Marines and had to flee for his life. In his words above he was celebrating his revenge with the defeat and death of the hated Colonial Marines who lost their lives in the Battle of Fort McHenry.

In the treaty after the war, the impressed Americans were released. The U.S. demanded the return of their "property", the ex-slaves, but the British refused and resettled them in Canada and the Caribbean. These are the slaves Key was referring to with "the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave."
posted by JackFlash at 10:30 AM on September 24, 2017 [83 favorites]

it is new, it is completely unheard of, it is disgusting, it is the worst theater story I ever heard, and everybody should have walked out, or at the very least gasped and dropped their opera glasses.

While I can't vouch for your reaction, orchestras and opera companies playing the national anthem is actually fairly common, and has a tradition back to at least WWII--especially by the generation of refugee and émigré conductors who came to the U.S. to escape mass murder, fascism and other horrors (and who collectively trained American orchestras to truly world-class levels, where they have since remained), and were understandably maybe a little self-conscious about being a (e.g.) German musician programming German music in 1946 or so.

But this ground is fairly well-trod:

Is the Star-Spangled Banner Out of Place at Orchestra Concerts? (podcast ep)

Orchestra concerts aren't patriotic. Stop opening them with the national anthem.

Myself, I think it would be much more interesting, if one is going to play the national anthem at a concert event, to do some version of the original drinking song from which the tune is co-opted, the Anacreontic Song, or maybe a meta-textual reimagining like this or this or this or this (depending on the kind of thing it's preceding--for the Ariadne auf Naxos performance that started this digression, I'd go for a boozy-sounding, early-music version of the drinking song that morphs into a chromatically-saturated, hazy dreamscape of an epic lament, cried out to one's empty flagon....y'know, bc Strauss.....).
posted by LooseFilter at 10:31 AM on September 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

Well done. The national anthem singer took a knee at the Falcons - Lions game.
posted by chris24 at 10:36 AM on September 24, 2017 [80 favorites]

I'd really like to see members of the audience at sporting events, concerts, etc. take a knee during the national anthem. In a similar vein, I wish others would join me in leaving out the "under God" clause from obligatory public recitations of the Pledge of Allegiance, which happens constantly in these parts along with other performative patriotism. Finally, I'm utterly sick of military folks being treated as more deserving of fundamental rights than the rest of us and the maudlin and unquestioning assumption that their activities are always just. as when, for example, plane passengers are asked to applaud a service member for "keeping us safe." See also: cops.
posted by carmicha at 10:55 AM on September 24, 2017 [27 favorites]

Brady among Patriots to link arms during anthem; 16 others kneeled
posted by chris24 at 11:10 AM on September 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

Brady among Patriots to link arms
...

I see what they did there.
posted by spitbull at 11:18 AM on September 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

members of the audience at sporting events, concerts, etc. take a knee

This is probably not possible given the seat spacing.
posted by ryanrs at 11:19 AM on September 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

Terry Bradshaw Says Donald Trump Doesn't Understand What Freedom Means (Jimmy Traina, Sports Illustrated)

And then there's these two:

Maria Bartiromo Rips NFL Anthem Kneelers on Fox & Friends: ‘I Think It’s Disgusting!’ (Colby Hall, Mediaite)

Huckabee Wishes NFL Players ‘Would Get on Both Knees and Thank God They Live’ in the USA (Justin Baragona, Mediaite)

On preview, people could turn around and put a knee on their seat.
posted by Room 641-A at 11:23 AM on September 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

@realDonaldTrump
Great solidarity for our National Anthem and for our Country. Standing with locked arms is good, kneeling is not acceptable. Bad ratings!

I swear to god some of these have to be scripted by whoever wrote the dialogue for the giant floating head in Zardoz.
posted by Rust Moranis at 11:24 AM on September 24, 2017 [42 favorites]

Huckabee Wishes NFL Players ‘Would Get on Both Knees and Thank God They Live’ in the USA (Justin Baragona, Mediaite)

Well, Mike, they might be doing that, too.
posted by jgirl at 11:25 AM on September 24, 2017

Maria Bartiromo has always been the journalistic equivalent of a septic tank.
posted by spitbull at 11:27 AM on September 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

Soldiers Speak Out on Kaepernick: His protest 'makes him more American than anyone'
posted by jgirl at 11:28 AM on September 24, 2017 [28 favorites]

I wonder if locking arms is a "trump will support this action" strategy handed down in the last 24 hrs.
posted by rhizome at 11:31 AM on September 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

guys it just hit me
trump is endorsing senator strange because he's really fucking tall
that's not a joke that is actually why he is doing it
all the other people in his administration are endorsing the frontrunner who is a whacko fundamentalist
not trump
for him, it is being really fucking tall that is important
he talked about it in the alabama speech
it is an issue of great magnitude
in a vertically integrated sense
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 11:33 AM on September 24, 2017 [10 favorites]

I wonder if locking arms is a "trump will support this action" strategy handed down in the last 24 hrs.

Some people had been doing it before this week. He's just trying to turn all the people kneeling and supporting them from a loss for him into a "win".
posted by chris24 at 11:34 AM on September 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

Standing with locked arms is good

AND THE ROCKET'S RED ROVER
posted by Sys Rq at 11:34 AM on September 24, 2017 [36 favorites]

Far right Alternative For Germany won 13.5 percent of the vote according to exits in the German election today, not only giving the far right seats in the Bundestag for the first time since remnants of the Nazi party in 1949, but making it the 3rd largest party and the official opposition once a coalition is formed.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:50 AM on September 24, 2017 [11 favorites]

Key was present just three weeks previous to writing this verse at the burning of Washington at the hands of the ex-slave Colonial Marines and had to flee for his life. In his words above he was celebrating his revenge with the defeat and death of the hated Colonial Marines who lost their lives in the Battle of Fort McHenry.

What's a good book about the former slaves in the Colonial Marines?
posted by Coventry at 11:52 AM on September 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

Far right Alternative For Germany won 13.5 percent of the vote according to exits in the German election today, not only giving the far right seats in the Bundestag for the first time since remnants of the Nazi party in 1949, but making it the 3rd largest party and the official opposition once a coalition is formed.

this is fine
posted by entropicamericana at 11:53 AM on September 24, 2017 [14 favorites]

The hard right expects obedience because they view no one else as equals.
Yes, and why "understanding each other" only goes so far. At some point you get here and - well, that's it.

A few years later, we would drop the Bellamy salute from the Pledge of Allegiance.

Wait, what? How did I not know that Americans did the Hitler salute for 40 years?? Man. WHAT A COINCIDENCE.
posted by petebest at 11:55 AM on September 24, 2017 [10 favorites]

awkward, right?

you know the pledge was written by a socialist, too, right?
posted by entropicamericana at 11:58 AM on September 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

Finally, I'm utterly sick of military folks being treated as more deserving of fundamental rights than the rest of us and the maudlin and unquestioning assumption that their activities are always just. as when, for example, plane passengers are asked to applaud a service member for "keeping us safe."

i thought that's what the 2nd amendment was for - so we could go around armed like wyatt fucking earp and keep ourselves safe and overthrow the government anytime we needed to because it kept us too safe

or something
posted by pyramid termite at 12:00 PM on September 24, 2017

this is fine

They're going to get seats but they're not going to be the official opposition. Even if the CDU/SDP rule from a grand coalition, The Left and the Greens are not going to let AfD to be the official opposition and they have the seats to make sure the coalition is opposed from the left not the far right.

For AfD to be the official opposition they would need to strike a deal with the FDP and nobody wants to touch AfD with a 40 foot barge pole.
posted by Talez at 12:00 PM on September 24, 2017 [13 favorites]

Soldiers Speak Out on Kaepernick: His protest 'makes him more American than anyone':

"I would like to know if the racial divide is so concerning to him, then what is he doing to make a change with all the money he makes playing a game? Maybe he should show the foundations and charities he is supporting to help turn the tide of racism instead of, or in addition to, his protest."

The answer to this is not exactly a secret. Google can help you find it! Colin Kaepernick has donated $800k to empower oppressed communities. He's pledged a million, but he's not quite there yet. He's been very transparent about where the money is going.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 12:02 PM on September 24, 2017 [39 favorites]

Protestors founded this country.
posted by rhizome at 12:10 PM on September 24, 2017 [37 favorites]

Protestors founded this country.

damn right.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 12:13 PM on September 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

What's a good book about the former slaves in the Colonial Marines?

Alan Taylor's The Internal Enemy: Slavery and War in Virginia, 1772-1832. It is a recent National Book Award finalist about Britain's support of escaped slaves to fight the US in the Chesapeake region. It's a fascinating read.
posted by Tsuga at 12:13 PM on September 24, 2017 [10 favorites]

That this is about respect for the military and first responders in the country

Reiterated reminder that the flag is a symbol of the whole country not just the military and a segment of the police and departments.
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:17 PM on September 24, 2017 [50 favorites]

Protestors founded this country.

Tax dodgers, smugglers (John Hancock and Sam Adams, for instance) and slave owners, mostly. The Boston Tea Party? Mostly smugglers unhappy with the East India Company's cut rates on tea cutting into their profits (which was cheaper than the tea they were smuggling from the Netherlands even with the threepence a pound tax).
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 12:22 PM on September 24, 2017 [10 favorites]

I'm also under the impression that the Pilgrims weren't exactly begged not to leave their home countries.
posted by rhizome at 12:25 PM on September 24, 2017 [9 favorites]

I'm pretty sure they were traitors from the perspective of the British, as well. Not going to hold it against them.
posted by Coventry at 12:30 PM on September 24, 2017

Almost the entire Broncos team took a knee.
posted by chris24 at 12:31 PM on September 24, 2017 [33 favorites]

yeah, it's funny/horrifying that the Puritans, while maybe having no idea about the issues that motivate people to kneel, would be 100% pro-not-having-to-worship-stuff-you-don't-want-to
posted by angrycat at 12:32 PM on September 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

From Wayne Dupree:

Jerry Jones: Cowboys Will Stand For The Flag Or “Your Ass Will Be Off The Team”
posted by jgirl at 12:32 PM on September 24, 2017

(I'm thinking of their position of being on trial in England's ecclesiastical courts, here)
posted by angrycat at 12:34 PM on September 24, 2017

would be 100% pro-not-having-to-worship-stuff-you-don't-want-to

They didn't want to worship stuff that they didn't want to, but they were fine with forcing their religion on other people. They're also not really a model for how we want to run anything.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 12:34 PM on September 24, 2017 [14 favorites]

Jerry Jones: Cowboys Will Stand For The Flag Or “Your Ass Will Be Off The Team”

Fuck him. I've met him and he's an asshole. If Dak, Dez or Zeke kneeled he'd do fucking nothing.
posted by chris24 at 12:36 PM on September 24, 2017 [24 favorites]

Eh, that Jerry Jones quote is an inflammatory misstatement of another Jerry Jones quote from a radio interview from 2016.
posted by notyou at 12:41 PM on September 24, 2017 [9 favorites]

Dave Zirin: The Fragile, Toxic Masculinity of Donald Trump: His comments about NFL players reveal just how divisive and narcissistic the president really is.

Some could argue that this is just a case of a divisive autocrat going after obvious targets of racial animus and of a base that doesn’t care if nuclear Armageddon looms, as long as they get their culture war—while Trump’s party gets its tax cuts for billionaires. But whether Trump realizes it or not, there is something else at play. These athletes are doing a lot more than sitting or kneeling or raising a fist during the anthem. They are offering up an alternative model for unity, justice, and even manhood. They are showing that what makes an adult is whom you can help, not whom you can cuss, and certainly not whom you can destroy for shameless and divisive political gain. Look at the work that’s been done by Michael Bennett, Colin Kaepernick, Malcolm Jenkins, the Charlottesville scholarships just funded by Chris Long… the list goes on and on of NFL players attempting to use their platform to highlight a different path for healing this country. The anthem protest is just a means to that end, an effort to highlight the gap between the promises that the flag represents and the lived experience of too many people in this country.

This is a model of politics—as well as manhood—that threatens Trump’s entire agenda of poisonous, divisive narcissism. Look at the outpouring of comments by NFL players following Trump’s remarks. None of them have sunk to his level. Instead, they share the tone of Seahawk Richard Sherman who said, “The behavior of the President is unacceptable and needs to be addressed. If you do not Condemn this divisive Rhetoric you are Condoning it!!” The cornerback, who is not even 30 years old, is showcasing more adulthood then the 70-year-old president. This is the new reality. And Sherman is absolutely correct. To be silent in the face of this destructive person is to condone his actions. That’s not an option. This president is a child bully, and bullies are emboldened by our silence.

posted by homunculus at 12:44 PM on September 24, 2017 [56 favorites]

Politico, Josh Dawsey: Kushner used private email to conduct White House business

Presidential son-in-law and senior adviser Jared Kushner has corresponded with other administration officials about White House matters through a private email account set up during the transition last December, part of a larger pattern of Trump administration aides using personal email accounts for government business.

Kushner uses his private account alongside his official White House email account, sometimes trading emails with senior White House officials, outside advisers and others about media coverage, event planning and other subjects, according to four people familiar with the correspondence. POLITICO has seen and verified about two dozen emails.

“Mr. Kushner uses his White House email address to conduct White House business,” said Abbe Lowell, a lawyer for Kushner in a statement Sunday. “Fewer than 100 emails from January through August were either sent to or returned by Mr. Kushner to colleagues in the White House from his personal email account. These usually forwarded news articles or political commentary and most often occurred when someone initiated the exchange by sending an email to his personal rather than his White House address.”

BUT HER EMAILS BUT HER EMAILS BUT HER EMAILS BUT HER EMAILS BUT HER EMAILS BUT HER EMAILS BUT HER EMAILS BUT HER EMAILS BUT HER EMAILS BUT HER EMAILS BUT HER EMAILS BUT HER EMAILS BUT HER EMAILS BUT HER EMAILS BUT HER EMAILS BUT HER EMAILS BUT HER EMAILS BUT HER EMAILS BUT HER EMAILS BUT HER EMAILS BUT HER EMAILS BUT HER EMAILS BUT HER EMAILS BUT HER EMAILS
posted by zachlipton at 12:46 PM on September 24, 2017 [113 favorites]

ESPN has a running tally on which players are protesting the national anthem. It mentions that some players are also raising a fist in the air while either standing or kneeling. FWIW, both Tommie Smith and John Carlos were drafted by the NFL after their famous national anthem protest.
posted by peeedro at 12:58 PM on September 24, 2017 [9 favorites]

To be silent in the face of this destructive person is to condone his actions. That’s not an option. This president is a child bully, and bullies are emboldened by our silence.

i can hardly wait to piss on his grave. it's pretty high on my bucket list.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 1:01 PM on September 24, 2017 [27 favorites]

Kushner used private email to conduct White House business

Those potatoes are so small I can't see them.
posted by Melismata at 1:21 PM on September 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

*whoosh*
posted by Barack Spinoza at 1:25 PM on September 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

Kushner used private email to conduct White House business

Using private email has never and still is not illegal. However, private email used for government business must be copied to the National Archives, as Clinton did. As of the beginning of this year, that must be done within 20 days. During Clinton's time it was acceptable to do it at the end of your term. That is no longer the case.
posted by JackFlash at 1:29 PM on September 24, 2017 [10 favorites]

LA Times: Aides Warned Trump Not to Attack North Korea's Leader Personally Before his Fiery U.N. Address

Senior aides to President Trump repeatedly warned him not to deliver a personal attack on North Korea’s leader at the United Nations this week, saying insulting the young despot in such a prominent venue could irreparably escalate tensions and shut off any chance for negotiations to defuse the nuclear crisis.

Trump’s derisive description of Kim Jong Un as “Rocket Man” on “a suicide mission” and his threat to “totally destroy” North Korea were not in a speech draft that several senior officials reviewed and vetted Monday, the day before Trump gave his first address to the U.N. General Assembly, two U.S. officials said.

Some of Trump’s top aides, including national security advisor H.R. McMaster, had argued for months against making the attacks on North Korea’s leader personal, warning it could backfire.

And after Sec. Mnuchin went on ABC's Sunday morning show This Week to bleat - amid increasing bellicose North Korean propaganda displays - that "The president doesn't want to be in a nuclear war. And we will do everything we can to make sure that doesn't occur.", Trump tweeted, "Courageous Patriots have fought and died for our great American Flag --- we MUST honor and respect it! MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!"
posted by Doktor Zed at 1:42 PM on September 24, 2017 [14 favorites]

As an American that believes in freedom of speech and expression, the idea of being required to treat a flag a certain way or to pledge allegiance or to wear a flag pin on a suit seems profoundly un-American.
posted by kirkaracha at 1:50 PM on September 24, 2017 [18 favorites]

@abbydphillip: NEWS: More Trump on NFL: "This has nothing to do with race. I’ve never said anything about race."

You hear that everyone? A black man protesting police killings of black people has nothing to do with race!

He also declared that he wants a 15% corporate tax rate and a 10-12% individual rate. Which is just delusional. And still nothing about Puerto Rico.
posted by zachlipton at 1:52 PM on September 24, 2017 [34 favorites]

Protestors founded this country.

And secret societies, right? I mean, y'know, keep it on the dl.

a wink's as good as a nod to a blind bat
posted by petebest at 1:53 PM on September 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

Jesus, I can't imagine what's it's like for those with ties to Puerto Rico right now. To be completely without electricity, the hospitals at capacity, warnings that people are suffering and will be dying, and to have complete silence from the top of the nation.
posted by angrycat at 2:03 PM on September 24, 2017 [60 favorites]

So the Penguins announced they're going to go to the White House today. Way to send a message(, assholes).
posted by Yowser at 2:27 PM on September 24, 2017 [17 favorites]

Alan Taylor's The Internal Enemy: Slavery and War in Virginia, 1772-1832

I think the best thing about MeFi is that pretty much every time someone recommends a book, I buy it for my Kindle, and I have NEVER regretted the decision.
posted by mikelieman at 2:51 PM on September 24, 2017 [27 favorites]

So the Penguins announced they're going to go to the White House today. Way to send a message(, assholes).

[ insert joke about hockey being so white ]
posted by numaner at 3:01 PM on September 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

I think the best thing about MeFi is that pretty much every time someone recommends a book, I buy it for my Kindle, and I have NEVER regretted the decision.

Dr. Chuck Tingle sends his regards.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 3:05 PM on September 24, 2017 [49 favorites]

every time someone recommends a book, I buy it for my Kindle, and I have NEVER regretted the decision.

Dr. Chuck Tingle sends his regards.

I still sometimes get Amazon recommendations based off my (free) purchase of Moan for Bigfoot. Thanks, Metafilter.
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:51 PM on September 24, 2017 [13 favorites]

cashman: @JamieErdahl: "Mike Tomlin just told me @NFLonCBS #Steelers will NOT be participating in the #NationalAnthem today in CHI. Staying in the locker room."

I heard about this today, at the grocery store, from folks who worked there. The most outraged were two older white folks, a man and a woman, who thought it was "disgraceful" that they wouldn't come out for the anthem.

Really? With all the shit that's happening, this is what you choose to be outraged by? Not the white nationalist president who's profiting off of his presidency, who has surrounded himself by like-minded sycophants who won't challenge him when he spouts hateful rhetoric or worse, enacts policy via Twitter? Not the Republicans who held the judicial nomination process hostage under the prior president and are now stacking the deck, while being unable to pass major legislation when they have the House, Senate and White House, which might be a good thing when they're trying to take away health care from millions of people, just to balance the books on tax reform that will do nothing to benefit the working class?

Yes, tell me more how disgusted you are that millionaire sports players won't stand for the anthem. This is truly the topic that most upsets me, too. (I tried to get a word in, saying "On the contrary, I support their actions," but the older gentleman said "Yes, they're disrespecting our country!" So I decided to complete my grocery purchase and go home.)
posted by filthy light thief at 3:57 PM on September 24, 2017 [44 favorites]

Thing is, these assholes are not outraged about the flag. They couldn't give a shit about the flag, beyond the fact that it - at this moment - allows them their performative patriotism which is nothing but a stand in for white supremacy. Nothing.

You think any of these fucks would be outraged if a white, Christian quarterback took the knee during the anthem to protest abortion rights? Because they would be fucking screaming FREEDOM OF SPEEEEEECH so loudly we'd all get tinnitus.

This isn't about the flag. This is about WHAT those players are protesting, not how.
posted by lydhre at 4:24 PM on September 24, 2017 [67 favorites]

Travel Ban 3.0?-I've-Lost-Count is here, with Reuters reporting restrictions on nationals of North Korea, Chad, Iran, Libya, Somalia, Syria, Venezuela, and Yemen, and "additional scrutiny" for Iraqi nationals. Details to follow.

Venezuela? What the hell would we be restricting Venezuelans fleeing their country for?
posted by zachlipton at 4:40 PM on September 24, 2017 [10 favorites]

I'm utterly sick of military folks being treated as more deserving of fundamental rights than the rest of us and the maudlin and unquestioning assumption that their activities are always just

I'm not even that much of an old, and I am here to remind you that this is something COMPLETELY NEW. I would say the initial seeds are from Nixon's push for a silent majority to speak up, and the rebranding of the USAF after the PR trough of the Vietnam War defeat.

The My Lai massacre and the Phoenix program are directly causally linked with the newfound deep respect for anyone in uniform. This is not an ancient sacred duty of Americans, it is a very modern marketing spin. Don't fall for the hype.
posted by Meatbomb at 4:47 PM on September 24, 2017 [13 favorites]

well the problem is that it's been going on for a generation now and is completely normalized, so it looks like we're stuck with it for now
posted by entropicamericana at 4:49 PM on September 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

Venezuela? What the hell would we be restricting Venezuelans fleeing their country for?

See we banned Venezuela so it's not a Muslim ban!
posted by PenDevil at 4:58 PM on September 24, 2017 [9 favorites]

Venezuela? What the hell would we be restricting Venezuelans fleeing their country for?

U.S. senators seek review of potential Russian control of Citgo (Timothy Gardner, Reuters)

Two U.S. senators have urged the Trump administration to clarify if it is reviewing the potential acquisition by Russian oil company Rosneft of Venezuela’s state oil company PDVSA and U.S. subsidiary Citgo, saying a shift in Citgo’s assets would be a security risk.

Probably coincidence.

Went to find the article about Citgo giving Trump money in exchange for oil profits in Venezuela, but found this. Also, Colonel Clownwig said we'll be invading them too. At the UN. Which, Jesus God y'all downplayed. What a maniacal raving dipshit.

Seriously GOP - do you not understand how fucked we are, or do you not care? For whatever reason I hope(?) it's the latter.
posted by petebest at 5:00 PM on September 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

So the Penguins announced they're going to go to the White House today. Way to send a message(, assholes).

[ insert joke about hockey being so white ]

So white, yes, but also so international. Less than half of the current Penguins roster is American. 19 Americans, 17 Canadians (including a black guy!), and 11 Europeans, including just one Russian, which makes me wonder if they were invited specifically because they're the least Russian team in the league. (Are they?)

I don't know if the internationality makes them any less assholish (I strongly doubt it), but it's at least maybe a partial explanation of the players' relative-to-football DGAFs re: American domestic policy. Certainly the overwhelming whiteness is also a major contributing factor, though.
posted by Sys Rq at 5:00 PM on September 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

Here's the text (pdf) of that order. For Venezuela, it applies only to visitor visas for certain categories of government officials and their families. Some of the restrictions also seem to be drawn more narrowly, allowing those who already have visas to use them until they expire. Refugees also appear to be allowed, though there are plenty of other ways they can screw that process up.

And yep, they can say it's totally not a Muslim ban now, wink wink.
posted by zachlipton at 5:00 PM on September 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

Travel Ban 3.0?-I've-Lost-Count is here, with Reuters reporting restrictions on nationals of North Korea, Chad, Iran, Libya, Somalia, Syria, Venezuela, and Yemen, and "additional scrutiny" for Iraqi nationals. Details to follow.

Wait. North Korea? Is there anyone actually leaving that place anyway? I didn't think that was allowed.
posted by greermahoney at 5:03 PM on September 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

Remember when Dennis Rodman and Kim Jong Un were on Sober House? And the drummer from Def Leppard broke them out and they robbed a bank by mistake? Oh man. Good times.
posted by petebest at 5:06 PM on September 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

i've been reading stories that some north koreans are working in china and sending money home and it is kind of allowed
posted by pyramid termite at 5:06 PM on September 24, 2017

Wait. North Korea? Is there anyone actually leaving that place anyway? I didn't think that was allowed.

+1 "not a muslim ban"
posted by Sys Rq at 5:08 PM on September 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

the older gentleman said "Yes, they're disrespecting our country!"

respect must be earned, pops.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 5:11 PM on September 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

but the older gentleman said "Yes, they're disrespecting our country!"

Worse -- they think their opinions are as good as anyone else's and they think the Bill of Rights gives them rights like other people. /end sarcasm
posted by puddledork at 5:14 PM on September 24, 2017

Huckabee Wishes NFL Players ‘Would Get on Both Knees and Thank God They Live’ in the USA

right after you get on your knees and blow me live on c-span, chucklefuck.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 5:15 PM on September 24, 2017 [26 favorites]

...if they were invited specifically because they're the least Russian team in the league.

They were invited because they won the Stanley Cup. You may recall the Boston Bruins visiting a few years back, Right-wing teapartyin' goalie Tim Thomas refused to go because he's have to shake hands with Obama. (Thomas is now a survivalist in Idaho, IIRC.)
posted by CCBC at 5:22 PM on September 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

Huckabee Wishes NFL Players ‘Would Get on Both Knees and Thank God They Live’ in the USA

He's just repeating the standard Republican story about how lucky the slaves were to be brought to America. It's classic racist Republican justification for slavery.
posted by JackFlash at 5:24 PM on September 24, 2017 [34 favorites]

Interesting, it allows Iranians to come on student visas, but bans them from visiting for business or pleasure. That seems rather dubious to justify if you're trying to claim people from Iran represent a security threat.
posted by zachlipton at 5:26 PM on September 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

Guys I'm getting kinda teary watching all these NFL players, all day long, silently protesting with such dignity and brotherhood.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 5:29 PM on September 24, 2017 [26 favorites]

Let's not forget that Facebook had a human curated list of trending news sources that was doing a pretty good job keeping out obvious scam sites, until the GOP and right wing hucksters screamed like howler monkeys that it was prejudiced against them so FB fired their team and replaced it with an algorithm that was instantly gamed by anyone trying to terrorise white people into voting for Trump.
posted by PenDevil at 5:31 PM on September 24, 2017 [93 favorites]

PenDevil, I had forgotten about that - thanks. It was a bullshit 'scandal' like when the IRS perfectly legitimately scrutinized the numerous political "Tea Party" inspired groups fraudulently claiming tax-exempt status as non-political non-profits.
posted by thelonius at 5:35 PM on September 24, 2017 [9 favorites]

The GOP has long since learned that if the ref is ruling against you, work the ref.
posted by NoxAeternum at 5:39 PM on September 24, 2017 [20 favorites]

I for one am looking forward to the next 600 straight days of NYT coverage of HIS EMAILS. The precedent has been set, and if we don't get a breathless update Every. Single. Fucking. Day, I want a fucking answer from Maggie Habermann on why the fuck not, why Kushner is any different than Clinton, and explicit detail on why the NYT isn't covering him the same way.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:41 PM on September 24, 2017 [39 favorites]

THE hearing about Graham-Cassidy is tomorrow! The Senate Finance Committee is meeting at 1400 ET tomorrow to hear testimony about the bill. It is the only hearing that will be held, so I assume it is roughly 4 months long. Or, you know, a minute and a half. Same thing if you're a Republican I guess.

The Witnesses appear to be, in order, ~~Huckleberry Hound~~Lindsey Graham, Mazie Hirono, Bill Cassidy, Rick Santorum, some guy from the Arkansas department of Human Services, the Acting Secretary of the PA department of Human Services, the former Deputy Administrator of Medicaid and CHIP, and a Senior VP at the Ameircan Cancer Society.

So it kinda sounds like a bunch of real witnesses, plus Cassidy, Graham, and... Rick Santorum? Why?

Ok, it's not fair to list Mazie Hirono as a real witness and disparage Cassidy and Graham. But still... Rick Santorum?
posted by Justinian at 5:50 PM on September 24, 2017

Does anyone know why Hirono or Santorum are witnesses? Hirono is at least a sitting Senator but I don't why she is qualified.
posted by Justinian at 5:52 PM on September 24, 2017

Sen. Hirono is possibly a witness because she's battling stage four kidney cancer and feels that she can speak to the cruelty of the bill.
posted by donatella at 5:55 PM on September 24, 2017 [8 favorites]

Does anyone know why Hirono or Santorum are witnesses?

Santorum is the original champion of block grants.

Rick Santorum, the fifth - and most influential - senator behind the GOP's latest health-care bill
Santorum has brought his experience as the originator, prime promoter, and, ultimately, Senate floor manager of the welfare reform bill in the 1990s to the current health-care reform effort. He had originally presented the block grant framework for health-care reform to the House
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:56 PM on September 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

Wow I didn't read to the end of that article first, it's endorsing block grants as a good idea.

Here's a better article with the same history.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:00 PM on September 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

This bill's definitely got Santorum all over it.
posted by uosuaq at 6:18 PM on September 24, 2017 [37 favorites]

Santorum has brought his experience as the originator, prime promoter, and, ultimately, Senate floor manager of the welfare reform bill in the 1990s to the current health-care reform effort.

That is the case study for the failure of state block grants and why they are so dangerous if used to replace Obamacare. The federal government loses all control over the spending, eligibility requirements, and minimum benefits. Since the 1996 welfare reform, states are allocating only 25% of their block granted funds to basic welfare cash assistance. In some states it is as low as 8%. The rest goes to a state slush fund that often goes to private contractors promoting bogus abstinence training or marriage promotion.

For example, in Mississippi, a single mother with two children gets only $170 a month. In Alabama, this same single mother with two children is disqualified from welfare if she earns just $270 a month. In Arizona only 8% of families living in poverty receive a dime of basic welfare.

Half of all families receiving basic cash assistance are in California and New York. Other states, barely at all.

So that gives you a taste of what you can expect if Obamacare is converted to state block grants. Medicaid coverage will be slashed in the Republican states and funds will be steered to politically connected "welfare" contractors. That is Santorum's legacy.
posted by JackFlash at 6:32 PM on September 24, 2017 [39 favorites]

I swear to god some of these have to be scripted by whoever wrote the dialogue for the giant floating head in Zardoz.

I am now picturing Trump in a red pleather thong shouting "THE PENIS IS EVIL" and so thank you SO much for that mental image.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:33 PM on September 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

That is Santorum's legacy.

Well, that and, y'know.
posted by petebest at 6:35 PM on September 24, 2017 [20 favorites]

I am now picturing Trump in a red pleather thong shouting "THE PENIS IS EVIL" and so thank you SO much for that mental image.

It would be the first time in months that he was right about something.
posted by delfin at 6:43 PM on September 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

Man, there are some reallllllll angry trumpists about the NFL today. It almost makes me want to start watching again, but as long as they have deals with the military, publicly funded stadiums, and CTE denial around their neck I think I'll be continuing to pass.
posted by codacorolla at 6:53 PM on September 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

I am now picturing Trump in a red pleather thong shouting "THE PENIS IS EVIL" and so thank you SO much for that mental image.

Sean Connery, in a red diaper, doing Donald Trump's dirty work.

How's that for a mental image?
posted by ocschwar at 6:53 PM on September 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

Apparently the GOP is circulating a new version of Graham-Cassidy, with some misleading internal GOP numbers that make it sound like they're sending extra money to Alaska, Kentucky and Arizona. Hopefully it won't work, but everyone is going to have to call their senators again tomorrow.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 7:02 PM on September 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

Sen. Hirono is possibly a witness because she's battling stage four kidney cancer and feels that she can speak to the cruelty of the bill.

Thanks! That makes sense.
posted by Justinian at 7:08 PM on September 24, 2017

I am now picturing Trump in a red pleather thong shouting "THE PENIS IS EVIL" and so thank you SO much for that mental image.

Tagline from the original Zardoz trailer: "I have seen the future, and it doesn't work."

I think it's probably time for a 2017-context rewatch. Zardoz slept for 44 years but perhaps its day has come at last.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:13 PM on September 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

[ insert joke about hockey being so white ]

And Russian.
posted by octothorpe at 7:22 PM on September 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

Here's the bill text and here's a misleading as hell state-by-state "savings" analysis they put out, both via Axios.

Why is the analysis so misleading? What it looks like they're doing is giving the state funding numbers under current law, then under Graham-Cassidy (no clue if these are even correct, and I wouldn't trust them), then the "state savings." What's a state savings? It's the amount the state currently would spend on Medicaid expansion if they expanded Medicaid (states pay 5% of the cost now, 10% by 2020). So their model just assumes states don't pay for that. Which is crazy.

Take Kentucky for an example (all the numbers are rounded for simplicity). Assuming these numbers are right, they get $28.1B from the feds under current law, and spend an extra $2.8B to pickup their share, for a total of $30.9B spent on healthcare during those 6 years. Graham Cassidy would mean that they only get $26.4B from the feds, a reduction of $1.7B. But their analysis says "wait a minute, Kentucky can save that $2.8B and spend it on something besides healthcare," so it declares Kentucky is really coming out ahead to the tune of $29.2B. But that $2.8B wasn't some kind of random fee; it was just money the state was spending on healthcare. That they wouldn't be spending anymore under this analysis. They've taken what is a net cut in healthcare spending by the state of Kentucky and are claiming it's a 4% increase. And even by their own screwed up analysis, California gets a 13% cut.

It also allows for multiple risk pools and lets states waive all sorts of rules requiring coverage for pre-existing conditions and required benefits
posted by zachlipton at 7:22 PM on September 24, 2017 [26 favorites]

And this is essentially a new bill, which won't be scored by the CBO by Friday. So Republicans will claim two things at the same time (1) the CBO partial score released tomorrow(?) is a score and satisfies regular order and at the same time (2) since even that partial score will be fucking terrible for cost and coverage, they'll also claim the CBO has not scored the latest language...but they can't wait until it can.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:28 PM on September 24, 2017 [8 favorites]

Without a pure CBO score any numbers are lies.
posted by rhizome at 7:32 PM on September 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

VIRGINIA HOUSE ELECTIONS - HD 81-85

intro
1-5
6-10
11-15
16-20
21-25
26-30
31-35
36-40
41-45
46-50
51-55
56-60
61-65
66-70
71-75
76-80

===

81st District
Currently GOP seat
R cand: Barry Knight (incumbent)
D cand: Kimberly Tucker

Semi-rural district south of Virginia Beach, 73.2% white. Incumbent first elected in 2009. No D candidate in 2013 or 2015. Trump won district 57-37.

===

82nd District
Currently GOP seat
R cand: Jason Miyares (incumbent)
D cand: Leigh Bowling

Virginia beach suburbs, 82.9% white. Incumbent first elected in 2015. R won 60-40 in 2013 and 65-35 in 2015. Trump won district 55-39.

===

83rd District
Currently GOP seat
R cand: Chris Stolle (incumbent)
D cand: David Rose-Carmack

Virginia Beach, 73.1% white. Incumbent first elected in 2009. No D candidate in 2013 or 2015. Trump won district 51-43.

===

84th District
Currently GOP seat
R cand: Glenn Davis (incumbent)
D cand: Veronica Coleman

Virginia Beach suburbs, 65.2% white. Incumbent first elected in 2013. R won 57-42 in 2013, no D candidate in 2015. Trump won district 49-45.

===

85th District
Currently GOP seat
R cand: Rocky Holcomb (incumbent)
D cand: Cheryl Turpin

Virginia Beach, 66.8% white. Incumbent first elected in 2017 special. R won 56-44 in 2013, no D candidate in 2015, R won 2017 special 53-47. Trump won district 47-47. This race is a rematch of the January special election.

===

Next time: 86-90
posted by Chrysostom at 7:35 PM on September 24, 2017 [24 favorites]

Multiple risk pools defeats the entire point of insurance. This is a destruction of the marketplace.
posted by Justinian at 7:36 PM on September 24, 2017 [17 favorites]

Isn't the (bullshit partial) CBO score a reconciliation requirement? And won't be for this new version?
posted by Justinian at 7:40 PM on September 24, 2017

Oh good grief. That Republican state-by-state "savings" analysis a bunch of reporters repeated uncritically is even worse than I thought. They only included the revenue, but not the costs, and with Medicaid having a per-capita cap under Graham-Cassidy, there are costs. They just left that out completely.

Graham-Cassidy sets up a formula for how much each state gets, and that's all they get, no matter how much health care costs. Current law scales the amount paid to each state based on the actual cost of care. It's pretty reasonable to predict that means that either there'll be less care or states will have to pay for more of it themselves. The GOP analysis document just pretends that doesn't exist.
posted by zachlipton at 7:54 PM on September 24, 2017 [13 favorites]

Sys Rq: "which makes me wonder if they were invited specifically because they're the least Russian team in the league. "

They were presumably invited because they won the Stanley Cup.

That said, team owner Mario Lemieux lives about half a mile from me, and I have half a mind to go over and plant a sign on his lawn telling him where he can stick the Cup.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:56 PM on September 24, 2017 [10 favorites]

I have a bad feeling that Murkowski is going to roll over. Which means we need McCain, Paul, Collins. Will she hold out against this kind of pressure?
posted by Justinian at 7:57 PM on September 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

Andy Slavitt is running through the low points. tl;dr: Grassidy 2.0 is FAR worse than even GC 1.0, which was the worst repeal bill yet.

States apparently don't even need to ask for waivers, only provide a description of their alternative and it's automatically granted. For essential benefits, pre-existing conditions, out of pocket caps. Basically a state could call anything it wants "health insurance" or "Medicaid", regardless of how little it covered, and receive the block grant federal funding under what we used to know as Medicaid.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:04 PM on September 24, 2017 [17 favorites]

I am now picturing Trump in a red pleather thong shouting "THE PENIS IS EVIL" and so thank you SO much for that mental image.

Sean Connery, in a red diaper, doing Donald Trump's dirty work.

How's that for a mental image.

THE PENIS MIGHTIER
posted by ian1977 at 8:05 PM on September 24, 2017 [9 favorites]

One point that needs to be driven home is that if Graham-Cassidy - or hell, any version of repeal - is passed, then you can say goodbye to a LOT of rural hospitals. Live in a coal town because that's where you're from and still hoping the mine will reopen? Well, you'll have to go a hell of a lot further for your medical care.
posted by azpenguin at 8:17 PM on September 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

I think it's probably time for a 2017-context rewatch.

You're tougher than I am. Once was too much.
posted by Coventry at 8:19 PM on September 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

you can say goodbye to a LOT of rural hospitals

And nursing homes. The overall and per capita caps would pretty swiftly make long term care unaffordable for 95% of the population, because NO ONE can afford end of life care. No one. And capping federal repayment of those costs means elderly people will be thrown out of nursing homes in short order.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:22 PM on September 24, 2017 [33 favorites]

It's time for the semi-weekly Maggie Haberman "we did nothing wrong at all" hour

But her emails means his emails don't matter, for reasons. Got it. These people decided our election and lied us into a genocideal war.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:27 PM on September 24, 2017 [16 favorites]

Haberman , pre-emptively defending Kushner:

Among the distinctions here is he does have a government email that he uses. She did not.

Wouldn't that imply that Kushner – who is so conscious of his own guilt that he wished to use the Russian embassy's secret channels to talk to Moscow – is selectively avoiding the use of his official account for some communications? I suppose it might be a way of segregating his private and official affairs, but it's at least potentially a giant red flag.

Red flag. Heh. I suppose it should be described as a tri-coloured one, nowadays.
posted by Joe in Australia at 9:49 PM on September 24, 2017 [16 favorites]

I mean, the "we were really covering the FBI investigation" bit has at least a trace of reality to it; the "but he has TWO email addresses" line is just fucking nuts.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:08 PM on September 24, 2017 [9 favorites]

If example user Bob is accused of adultery or conspiring with our enemies or some such - if Bob has two cell phones while innocent Alice only ever had one, then this is not a good stand-alone argument for Bob being innocent, or more innocent than Alice was.

Or something.
posted by sebastienbailard at 10:28 PM on September 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

The Mayor of San Juan gave a devastating interview to the Post (video):

“There is horror in the streets,” she said in a raw, emotional interview with The Washington Post on Saturday. “People are actually becoming prisoners in their own homes.”

“I know we’re not going to get to everybody in time. . . . Two days ago, I said I was concerned about that. Now I know we won’t get to everybody in time,” Cruz said.

posted by zachlipton at 11:02 PM on September 24, 2017 [46 favorites]

I think two of the no-doubt many lessons that should be taken from this disaster in Puerto Rico are 1) Trump is a racist asshole who doesn't care about Puerto Rico and 2) If you're not a state, you're not going to be treated as "real" Americans even if you are. I'm not saying that's right. It's probably got a lot to do with, again, racism. But I think it's probably true. If Puerto Rico were a full state things would be going very differently.
posted by Justinian at 11:09 PM on September 24, 2017 [30 favorites]

(I guess I should make the corollary explicit; PR should vote to become a state, right now they have the worst of most worlds.)
posted by Justinian at 11:34 PM on September 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

We play football here in Canada as well; before today's game during O Canada, the Saskatchewan Roughriders linked arms in solidarity with their colleagues in the US.

Context notes: About 70% of the Riders lineup - like all CFL teams - are Americans. The Riders represent a relatively conservative, highly rural farming area - think Kansas perhaps. Their opponents, the Calgary Stampeders, also voiced support. This is the first time I've ever said anything positive about the Saskatchewan Roughriders.
posted by Homeboy Trouble at 11:46 PM on September 24, 2017 [14 favorites]

Wait, wait, hold up.

There's a politician named santorum now? Is it intentional, or does he just not know?
posted by loquacious at 12:25 AM on September 25, 2017 [62 favorites]

Not to knock the Saskatchewan Roughriders, but as Jamil Smith points out, the linking arms thing was a BS effort to co-opt a serious protest unless you want to believe that Dan Snyder, a guy who gave a millions bucks to elect Trump and owns a team whose name is a slur, was out there protesting racial injustice and police violence today.
posted by zachlipton at 12:35 AM on September 25, 2017 [15 favorites]

I wrote to my Congress people again tonight ught to urge then to make getting aid to Puerto Rico immediately their top goal. I know there are a hundred other awful things they need to fight but there are people in immediate danger of dying in the streets right now - if they're not already.
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:45 AM on September 25, 2017 [16 favorites]

How does linking arms show solidarity? Doesn't that explicitly prevent anyone in the line from taking a knee if the persons beside them remains standing?
posted by porpoise at 1:10 AM on September 25, 2017 [6 favorites]

It doesn't seem that way, porpoise.
posted by suburbanbeatnik at 3:23 AM on September 25, 2017 [8 favorites]

Senate hearing on Graham-Cassidy is today(Link to C-Span stream for y'all). Can we get a new thread?
posted by fluttering hellfire at 4:45 AM on September 25, 2017 [1 favorite]

So 204 players knelt or sat. Three other teams didn't come out at all for the anthem. 28 teams played with 55 man rosters so 1.540 players. That means 13% protested, 24% if you count those who didn't come out for the anthem at all. And of course this doesn't count the hundreds who raised a fist or did the weak sauce linking of arms. Last week 4 players kneeled.

Of course Donny is trying to minimize it.

@realDonaldTrump: Many people booed the players who kneeled yesterday (which was a small percentage of total). These are fans who demand respect for our Flag!

Also, a second national anthem performer took a knee during the anthem. Even more surprising, it was a white female country singer who did it in Nashville, Tennessee.

Meghan Linsey, the singer performing “The Star-Spangled Banner" at Sunday’s Seattle Seahawks and Tennessee Titans game in Nashville, took a knee on a field with no players present after finishing her rendition of the national anthem.

Linsey, a former contestant on "The Voice," was receiving rapturous applause for her performance at at Nissan Stadium when she chose to bend down on one knee -- a move that has become political symbol over the past year and particularly over the weekend after President Trump called for the firing of NFL players who kneel in protest during the anthem.

And at the WNBA Finals game one last night, the Los Angles Spark walked off the court in solidarity during the anthem.
posted by chris24 at 5:14 AM on September 25, 2017 [42 favorites]

There's a politician named santorum now? Is it intentional, or does he just not know?

Dan Savage would be delighted that you only found out who Rick Santorum is after accepting the term created to mock him as a valid word in and of itself.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 5:30 AM on September 25, 2017 [19 favorites]

I mean, the "we were really covering the FBI investigation" bit has at least a trace of reality to it

Sort of? Jared is one of the principle subjects of multiple investigations by the FBI, Congress and the Special Prosecutor....but I guess since the title of the investigation is not "Jared Kushner's use of a private email server for government business", that's the key distinction for the New York Times.

Habermann's logic is fucking absurd. She's a fucking disgrace. She, and the entire Times editorial staff, are constantly trying absolve their performance by gaslighting us over what they did to help Trump get elected. That stain is never going away, they're personally, individually, responsible for every bad thing he does in office as much as anyone in the country except maybe James Comey himself.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:43 AM on September 25, 2017 [26 favorites]

Not to knock the Saskatchewan Roughriders, but as Jamil Smith points out, the linking arms thing was a BS effort to co-opt a serious protest...

How does linking arms show solidarity? Doesn't that explicitly prevent anyone in the line from taking a knee if the persons beside them remains standing?

The players called it a gesture of solidarity in the linked article. In this particular context, the meanings may be a little different, since the players are not actually responding directly to the playing of the Star Spangled Banner, since they are in Canada and a different national anthem plays before football games here.

Will be interesting to see what happens if this continues through hockey season, where most players are not American and where both anthems are frequently played (they play the anthems representing the cities playing - Montreal vs Boston would have both; Detroit would only be the US, etc.)
posted by Homeboy Trouble at 5:44 AM on September 25, 2017 [1 favorite]

How does linking arms show solidarity? Doesn't that explicitly prevent anyone in the line from taking a knee if the persons beside them remains standing?

It doesn't seem that way, porpoise.

Something about seeing grown men holding hands in this context is very touching- the optics of everyone supporting each other in a highly personal manner. It's also a little funny because it looks like their fingers are so big they can't interlace.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 5:53 AM on September 25, 2017 [2 favorites]

Ben Sasse
NFL players:
You have the right to protest Trump tmrw. But aren’t there better ways than kneeling before the flag soldiers died to defend?

Glenda Gilmore, Ben Sasse's history prof
Ben, you know kneeling displays humility's power. You know what they are protesting isn't the flag. You know better.
best,
Your History Prof
posted by supercrayon at 6:00 AM on September 25, 2017 [137 favorites]

patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel

-- samuel johnson
posted by pyramid termite at 6:15 AM on September 25, 2017 [15 favorites]

ago, in reference to Facebook deleting Rohingya posts: "I'm still not sure Facebook fully grasps the scale and implications of what it's built."

Oh, it does, and I'm sure it will roll it out just fine for Zuckerberg 2020.
posted by corb at 6:16 AM on September 25, 2017 [3 favorites]

There's something beyond mere entitlement or arrogance in the demands of white people that people of color do performative patriotism.

Deconstruct it for a moment.

The American government is actively, maliciously, involved in oppressing people of color. Especially black people, but also Latinx people and of course let's not forget native Americans.

The flag is a symbol of the US government.

The anthem is a symbol of the US government.

The (white) fans are demanding that black athletes not merely stay silent about the day to day abuses the US government subjects people of color to, but that they actively put on a false display of "patriotism" and by doing so lend their support to the oppression of people of color by the US government.

It is, in effect, white people demanding that athletes of color say "yes, I agree that it is **GOOD** that the US government is oppressing other people of color".

I'm not sure we have a word in English for the emotion that demands such ostentatious displays of performative, public, submission from members of oppressed groups. It is, to these white people, insufficient that black people merely be oppressed. They must not merely be oppressed, but must also praise the oppressor and affirm that their oppression is good, positive, and deserved.
posted by sotonohito at 6:18 AM on September 25, 2017 [80 favorites]

i think "self-abasement" is awfully close
posted by pyramid termite at 6:26 AM on September 25, 2017 [13 favorites]

I'm not sure we have a word in English for the emotion that demands such ostentatious displays of performative, public, submission from members of oppressed groups.

Colonialism.

The British Empire never died, it just relocated and rebranded. The Redcoats are coming from inside the house.
posted by Buntix at 6:27 AM on September 25, 2017 [10 favorites]

Frederick Douglass saying "What to the slave is the 4th of July?" Lincoln saying the South was not happy to be allowed to hold slaves, would not be happy unless the north called slavery noble... Jackie Robinson saying he could not salute the flag, fists in the air at the 1968 Olympics... so many echoes of history...
posted by OnceUponATime at 6:36 AM on September 25, 2017 [18 favorites]

"And of course this doesn't count the hundreds who raised a fist or did the weak sauce linking of arms."

I don't think we should call the linking of arms weak sauce. Some of these guys are rookies, or only on the roster on sufferance, and feel constrained in how much they can speak. Some of the arm-linkers are coaches or staff who serve entirely at the pleasure of the owners and most of whom don't matter enough to protect and whose firing wouldn't be high profile. Some of these guys just want to be left out of the politics and keep their heads down and play football. And a lot of these guys disagree with the kneeling as a protest -- as is their right as Americans, who may feel differently about the issues (i.e., be wrong, but they're allowed to be wrong), or who may feel for a variety of personal, moral, religious, or family reasons that kneeling during the anthem is disrespectful. And many of the players who have expressed ambivalence or dislike for this form of protest chose to stand arms linked in solidarity with their teammates who chose to kneel.

I think there is something really powerful in that, players saying, "I disagree with what/how you are protesting, but I absolutely stand with you and stand behind you, on one of the most public stages imaginable, to support you in an unpopular protest." It's a really American statement at a time when we need it -- that even if I disagree with your cause or your tactics, I 100% stand behind your right to peacefully protest and I will oppose people who try to silence you.

I want to see them all kneel. I want them all to get woke and understand why this matters. I do. And I am blown away by the courage, dignity, and grace of the players who have kneeled and sat (and I want to call all their moms and tell them what good sons they have and how proud they should be). But I think we should respect and even admire the players who are struggling with this situation (due to personal situation, political beliefs, or just attitudes about protest) and who are still choosing to take a very public stance of support for their teammates who are protesting. I mean, they're standing up on national television and making themselves targets just by supporting the right of their teammates to protest; it's not exactly facebook slacktivism.

The men who are kneeling deserve our deepest admiration and support, they are the front line, they are taking the biggest risks, they are brave men doing something unpopular on a hugely public stage. But the arms-locking guys are doing something a little bit brave too, and we shouldn't minimize it. When the season started, nobody was linking arms. But the power of the kneeling protests has already brought dozens more men to their knees and hundreds more to standing in support. That's amazing.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 6:41 AM on September 25, 2017 [95 favorites]

It is deeply moving to see the NFL players stand for justice. It gives me hope in these dark times.
posted by thebotanyofsouls at 6:59 AM on September 25, 2017 [3 favorites]

But the arms-locking guys are doing something a little bit brave too, and we shouldn't minimize it. When the season started, nobody was linking arms.

Linking arms started last season, specifically as a reaction to Kaepernick kneeling. And as of this weekend, it is being held up by Trump himself as a counter-protest (to say nothing of Dan Snyder, the NFL owners' worst among evils). An NFL player who links arms after September 24th is not being even the slightest bit brave. He is working for President Donald Trump as a visible counterpoint to those who take a knee.

As for those who did it before this weekend, I say "Meh." Standing in a position of privilege and status and wealth and mouthing the words "I don't agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" barely means anything; "I will defend to the elbow your right to say it" means even less.
posted by Etrigan at 7:03 AM on September 25, 2017 [12 favorites]

On NAFTA, it's going very slowly because no one can figure out what Trump wants (G&M, subscription content):

"Really nobody knows what Donald Trump wants. Does he want a deal or does he want something that he can then turn down and say to his base: 'I told you these Canadians and Mexicans are untrustworthy. This is a bad deal for America,'" a senior adviser to Mr. Trudeau told The Globe on Sunday. "They are not sure yet what he wants."

In conversations with Mr. Lighthizer and U.S. Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross, Canadian officials have gotten the impression that they have a "constituency of one" (Mr. Trump) and are stuck in a "position where they want to please" the President rather than negotiate on issues of substance to benefit all three countries.

posted by bonehead at 7:05 AM on September 25, 2017 [11 favorites]

Minimal protest deserves minimal praise, particularly on the part of the white players. When they link arms on the street at a black lives matter rally, I'll start making cookies.
posted by melissasaurus at 7:06 AM on September 25, 2017 [19 favorites]

Ungrateful as the New Uppity. Good piece on white resentment of black protest in the New Yorker.
posted by emjaybee at 7:09 AM on September 25, 2017 [46 favorites]

Hilarious quotation from former Buffalo Bills coach and current Trump supporter Rex Ryan:

You know, calling our players SOBs and all that kind of stuff, that's not the men that I know. The men that I know in the locker room I'm proud of. I'm proud to be associated with those people. I apologized for being pissed off but guess what? That's it, because right away I'm associated with what Donald Trump stands for and all that because I introduced him. I never signed up for that, I never wanted that.

You knew damn well he was a snake etc etc.
posted by peeedro at 7:14 AM on September 25, 2017 [31 favorites]

Really nobody knows what Donald Trump wants

- and that includes Donald Trump
posted by mumimor at 7:17 AM on September 25, 2017 [10 favorites]

Sen. Ron Johnson (R-WI) continues to lie about the dangers and damages of Obamacare, and says GOP may tie repeal and replace to next year's budget (NPR, audio only at the moment). That's right: the GOP could tie the budget to both the GOP tax plan and repeal and replace ACA.

Reminder: Republicans have been doing all they could to undermine Obamacare since it passed, it's not "dying under its own weight," unless you consider a whale that was forced onto the beach by whalers to be simply "dying under its own weight."
posted by filthy light thief at 7:19 AM on September 25, 2017 [9 favorites]

Dan Savage would be delighted

Come on, man, that was a perfectly bone dry joke and now you've made it all soggy and moist.
posted by loquacious at 7:29 AM on September 25, 2017 [61 favorites]

Steve Bannon Sought To Infiltrate Facebook Hiring

Be gone, Satan!
posted by Sophie1 at 7:30 AM on September 25, 2017 [2 favorites]

When you make the people you're oppressing admire the oppression, that's called triumphalism.
posted by glasseyes at 7:33 AM on September 25, 2017 [3 favorites]

lalex nice to see this after NASCAR threatened folks about national anthem protests:
All Americans R granted rights 2 peaceful protests. Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable-JFK - @Dale Earnhardt Jr.

Trump tweeted this at 6:25am:

@realDonaldTrump: So proud of NASCAR and its supporters and fans. They won't put up with disrespecting our Country or our Flag - they said it loud and clear!

Dale tweeted his at 6:54am. Nice response Mr. Earnhardt.
posted by chris24 at 7:34 AM on September 25, 2017 [53 favorites]

Two little letters away from something else I suppose, but he didn't invent it.
posted by glasseyes at 7:35 AM on September 25, 2017

I'm blown away and impressed that Earnhardt would use his position as the most famous NASCAR driver in this way.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 7:35 AM on September 25, 2017 [22 favorites]

They won't put up with disrespecting our Country or our Flag

He's capitalizing the nouns. Was this actually translated from a Hitler speech?
posted by Etrigan at 7:37 AM on September 25, 2017 [45 favorites]

I'm noticing that a lot online lately--people capitalizing random Nouns. It drives me crazy, and I don't know where it's coming from.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 7:48 AM on September 25, 2017 [6 favorites]

Trump still has the reverse Midas touch. 86% of Americans back DACA. A month ago it was 76%.
posted by chris24 at 7:48 AM on September 25, 2017 [44 favorites]

I'm noticing that a lot online lately--people capitalizing random Nouns. It drives me crazy, and I don't know where it's coming from.

In German, nouns are capitalized.
posted by Melismata at 7:51 AM on September 25, 2017 [5 favorites]

In Russian, nouns capitalize you.
posted by Faint of Butt at 7:54 AM on September 25, 2017 [31 favorites]

And Donny isn't going to like this. His "pal" Tom Brady:

New England Patriots quarterback Tom Brady directly addressed remarks by President Donald Trump on Monday morning, saying, "I certainly disagree with what he said. I thought it was just divisive."

Brady's willingness to answer the question, which came during his weekly interview on sports radio WEEI's "Kirk and Callahan" program, was different from how he handled a similar query after the team's 36-33 victory over the Houston Texans on Sunday. At that time, Brady said he didn't want to get into politics while speaking of the love he has for his teammates.

And NFL spokesman Joe Lockhart this morning about the protests:

"Everyone should know, including the president, that this is what real locker room talk is."
posted by chris24 at 7:57 AM on September 25, 2017 [50 favorites]

From yesterday: Back in 2012, I wrote this, with respect to how our country fails to really interrogate its mistakes

My lovely wife and I are watching Ken Burns' Vietnam documentary, and watching this historical disaster unfold in retrospect is almost making me physically sick. And not only did we not learn anything from these mistakes, but also some of these very same people -- Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld spring readily to mind -- didn't spend the rest of their lives in jail, but rather got to make the same mistakes all over again. They thought Iraq would prove that they were right all along about Vietnam, but no, it proved the opposite, and at a horrendous cost that once again they didn't have to pay.
posted by Gelatin at 7:58 AM on September 25, 2017 [43 favorites]

They thought Iraq would prove that they were right all along about Vietnam

GHW Bush explicitly said, at the time of Desert Storm, "The Vietnam syndrome is over".
posted by thelonius at 8:02 AM on September 25, 2017 [7 favorites]

Anthony Weiner sentenced to 21 months for sexting an underage girl.

(and for gifting Comey a shiv)
posted by Dashy at 8:03 AM on September 25, 2017 [31 favorites]

I'm blown away and impressed that Earnhardt would use his position as the most famous NASCAR driver in this way.

I haven't followed nascar in a good while, mostly just because the races are too fucking long, but Li'l Dale has always seemed like a good egg. Not in the "I would be seriously sad to find out he was an asshole" group that Dolly Parton is in but basically a good egg.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:03 AM on September 25, 2017 [5 favorites]

On the subject of Dale Jr., what does everyone think about his number and its use by good ol' boy types? Is it really just a coincidence that he ended up with 88? I'm pretty sure I understand what it means when it appears in Earnhardt font on a car otherwise festooned with infowars and "Hillary for Prison" stickers, but how much leeway should I give it in other contexts?
posted by contraption at 8:05 AM on September 25, 2017 [3 favorites]

Come on, man, that was a perfectly bone dry joke and now you've made it all soggy and moist.

It's now kind of a frothy mixture.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 8:07 AM on September 25, 2017 [13 favorites]

I'm picturing Martin Shkreli and Anthony Weiner as cellmates now.
posted by 1970s Antihero at 8:08 AM on September 25, 2017 [3 favorites]

GHW Bush explicitly said, at the time of Desert Storm, 'The Vietnam syndrome is over'.

Also probably a motivation for us invading Grenada in 1983.
In addition to distracting attention from Reagan punking out in Lebanon after the Beirut barracks bombings two days before the invasion.
posted by kirkaracha at 8:10 AM on September 25, 2017 [3 favorites]

As someone who was raised watching NASCAR races on a very regular basis, including amazing times where The Intimidator did shit like the famous Pass In The Grass and pass other cars with most of his sheet metal missing in another race, I'm trying to think of what it would look like if Trump came after Earnhardt Jr. and I'm just stuck at a loss between

1) OMFG he'd lose a portion of his rabid base if he in any way attempted to denigrate the guy who is the son of one of the most popular NASCAR drivers in history who, literally, died behind the wheel in a race, not to mention the fact that Jr. is a helluva driver and is as close as you can come to the face of the sport as you can get. tl;dr -' surely this...'
2) Nothing at all would happen because that's how his base is. They'd either purposefully ignore it or, and this is the part that gets me, ignore Jr.'s sentiment because what Twitler TheFirst says, goes.

I'm out of evens at this point so what do I know...
posted by RolandOfEld at 8:11 AM on September 25, 2017 [7 favorites]

On the subject of Dale Jr., what does everyone think about his number and its use by good ol' boy types? Is it really just a coincidence that he ended up with 88?

He used to drive #8, but in 2007 switched sponsors and couldn't take the number with him. So he switched to #88 which was the number of the car driven by his grandfather.

On August 15, 2007, it was announced that Earnhardt would not be taking his familiar No. 8 with him to Hendrick Motorsports in 2008. His late grandfather, Ralph Earnhardt, used that number, while Earnhardt picked it when he entered the Cup Series in 1999. His father also used No. 8 early in his career. Earnhardt Jr. blamed his stepmother for not allowing the No. 8 to move with him to Hendrick Motorsports. Earnhardt said negotiations broke down when Teresa Earnhardt asked for part of the licensing revenue, along with wanting the number back after he retired. (The No. 8 team, after a successful season in 2008 with co-drivers Mark Martin and Aric Almirola, would end up being shut down in 2009 after DEI's merger with Ganassi Racing.)

Earnhardt moved to the No. 88 car with Tony Eury Jr. coming to Hendrick to remain as his crew chief. On September 19, the official announcement was made that Earnhardt would be driving the No. 88 Mountain Dew AMP/National Guard Chevrolet Impala for the 2008 season. The No. 88, according to NASCAR archives, was driven by Ralph Earnhardt, his paternal grandfather, in 1957.

posted by chris24 at 8:11 AM on September 25, 2017 [14 favorites]

I'm trying to think of what it would look like if Trump came after Earnhardt Jr.

His base would ask themselves "who looks more like my identity-defining sense of racial/cultural resentment" and I'm pretty sure of who they'd choose.
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:15 AM on September 25, 2017 [3 favorites]

Trump twice this morning called Roy Moore "Ray", and when corrected said it was not a good sign for Roy that the president didn't know his name.
posted by chris24 at 8:20 AM on September 25, 2017 [18 favorites]

Mnuchin: "They can do free speech on their own time. That this is about respect for the military and first responders in the country."

Awesome -- then these cowards stop hiding behind the military and first responders in order to bolster their unjustifiable policies.

Hijacking honor they never earned for courage they never display is extremely disrespectful.
posted by Gelatin at 8:21 AM on September 25, 2017 [16 favorites]

@weddady (Middle East/N Africa expert Nasser Weddady)
Banning Chad citizens from the US is odd; Chad is a bulwark against terrorism, its troop played pivotal role in crushing AQIM in Mali.
- When France went to Mali to reverse terrorist rule from N Mali, Chad was the only willing & ABLE country to send real combat troops.
- Chad troops saw more combat against Jihadis in N Mali than French troops, they gave AQIM hell and some more. Not recognizing it is an error
- If the war on terror requires a partnership with Muslim nations to combat terrorism, then Chad is a pioneer in deeds not words.
- Kind of sends a terrible message, Chad did everything the West needed in fighting terrorism in Africa & some. Reward: banned from the US
- I bet u that there's a lot of yelling going now in Stuttgart at US AFRICOM's HQ upon hearing of Chad being on the list of banned countries
posted by chris24 at 8:25 AM on September 25, 2017 [58 favorites]

so I guess my rubric is:

Earnhardt '88' with Trumpist or other far right iconography and nothing else sports related: confirmed nazi.

Earnhardt '88' in isolation or with non-political, non-sports stickers or with a mix of sports and politics: side-eye, proceed with caution

Earnhardt '88' with a bunch of other NASCAR shit: probably fine

Does that seem reasonable?
posted by contraption at 8:26 AM on September 25, 2017 [6 favorites]

Tanner '88: Safe.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:29 AM on September 25, 2017 [2 favorites]

FWIW, Dale Jarrett also drove an 88 car for NASCAR.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:31 AM on September 25, 2017

Meanwhile, back at the North Korean ranch, the BBC is reporting that North Korea has decided that Trump had declared war and that they can shoot down US bombers.
posted by kerf at 8:33 AM on September 25, 2017 [7 favorites]

Anthony Weiner sentenced to 21 months for sexting an underage girl.

I might be a little jaded when my first thought is "I can't wait to see the headline on tomorrow's Post!"
posted by Capt. Renault at 8:35 AM on September 25, 2017 [4 favorites]

You don't actually need an excuse to shoot down bombers overflying your country. I'm guessing we'd shoot down North Korean bombers flying over the US, had they any which could actually make it here.

That said... please don't shoot at Trump's penis substitutes, NK. He's just looking for a reason to kill everyone.
posted by Justinian at 8:35 AM on September 25, 2017 [5 favorites]

Among the more bizarre anti-kneeling arguments I've heard is the one that so-and-so's son is in Afghanistan right now, fighting for the right to kneel and speak freely.

And again, the assumption always seems to be that the military is white. It's 40% POC. Freedom of expression and from racism and police brutality probably mean a lot to them.

Not to mention when people bring up WWII and Korea vets, they seem to forget that the over 1m black soldiers who served in WWII came home unable to to take advantage of the GI Bill or the FHA home loans that created the white middle class in this country.
posted by chris24 at 8:37 AM on September 25, 2017 [30 favorites]

NK FM: “Since the United States declared war on our country, we will have every right to make countermeasures, including the right to shoot down United States strategic bombers even when they are not inside the airspace border of our country.” (emphasis mine)
posted by stonepharisee at 8:39 AM on September 25, 2017 [5 favorites]

BUT HER EMAILS
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 8:40 AM on September 25, 2017 [2 favorites]

Technically, there was no peace treaty, so the Korean War is still in progress.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:40 AM on September 25, 2017 [2 favorites]

Technically, there was no peace treaty, so the Korean War is still in progress.

Between the ROK and the DPRK, sure. The U.S. never declared war on North Korea, nor vice-versa.
posted by Etrigan at 8:44 AM on September 25, 2017 [1 favorite]

Technically, there was no declaration of war, so the Korean War never existed.
posted by Faint of Butt at 8:45 AM on September 25, 2017 [6 favorites]

There has been an 88 car in NASCAR since the 1940s and it isn't inherently sinister. A driver can't just up and decide what number to be for several reasons.

First, the number of cars in a NASCAR race is big enough -- usually 40+ cars -- that, duh, they use up a lot of the numbers between 0 and 100 (with IIRC at least some of the ones that you don't see being omitted for visibility/distinguishability.

Second, the numbers are more or less property in sometimes complex ways. This gets even more complicated because racers and their families will sometimes own one team while driving for another.

Third, running a number of a former prominent or beloved racer, or otherwise with a good history, is good. 6 (Big Dale's old number) or 29 (Big Dale and then Harvick). 88 probably counts in there since Jarrett was champion once, won some big races, and was AFAIK generally well-liked.

I would follow contraption's schema.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:45 AM on September 25, 2017 [6 favorites]

I meant 3 of course not 6 what the fuck am i even doing
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:46 AM on September 25, 2017 [6 favorites]

i mean god i am tired and all but mixing up big dale and mark martin is just fucked up
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:47 AM on September 25, 2017 [9 favorites]

All this spiraling helplessly into seemingly inevitable war is making it really hard to concentrate on the dumb shit I'm supposed to do today.
posted by theodolite at 8:50 AM on September 25, 2017 [23 favorites]

Just shameful ROU - go to your room. GO TO BED!
posted by Golem XIV at 8:51 AM on September 25, 2017

What Korean War? I don't see any statues about it where I live so I don't think it happened.
posted by kirkaracha at 8:55 AM on September 25, 2017 [23 favorites]

I thought it was a TV sitcom in the '70s...
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:59 AM on September 25, 2017 [4 favorites]

You need to visit Castle Island in South Boston, then. Grab a cheeseburger or some clam strips at Sullivan's, walk around the path, gaze at the statue for about 30 seconds, then find a bench to watch the boats go by.
posted by adamg at 8:59 AM on September 25, 2017

Rocket 88 also good.
posted by kirkaracha at 9:00 AM on September 25, 2017 [4 favorites]

Mnuchin: They can do free speech on their own time.

If Mnuchin's not signing the paycheck, the players' time is not HIS to say what should be done with it.
posted by mikelieman at 9:01 AM on September 25, 2017 [10 favorites]

Seriously, even I know about number 3 on account of the goat.
posted by contraption at 9:09 AM on September 25, 2017

Not to mention that the whole concept of having a job = you are wholly owned, not even time belongs to you, everything you do must be dictated by your owners is completely fucking disgusting.
posted by medusa at 9:10 AM on September 25, 2017 [45 favorites]

Not to mention that the whole concept of having a job = you are wholly owned

@deray
To Trump, the NFL Players are mere property and he is calling out to their “owners” to discipline them for speaking. This sounds familiar.
posted by chris24 at 9:14 AM on September 25, 2017 [65 favorites]

To Trump, the NFL Players are mere property and he is calling out to their “owners” to discipline them for speaking. This sounds familiar.

A horrified part of me is just hoping that 'uppity' doesn't make an appearance.
posted by jaduncan at 9:16 AM on September 25, 2017 [3 favorites]

When multi-millionaire-but-not-billionaire Richard Riordan ran for L.A. Mayor (and won), I was working for a company he part-owned. Its offices were in the City of Pasadena, not L.A. but I lived in L.A. and there was a memo spread around that political bumper stickers would not be allowed in the employee parking lot (or anything political in office cubicles). It was assumed that was targeted toward Riordan's opponents. It wasn't the first but the most obvious case I experienced of Freedom of Speech not applying to the workplace.
posted by oneswellfoop at 9:17 AM on September 25, 2017 [1 favorite]

VIRGINIA HOUSE ELECTIONS - HD 86-90

intro
1-5
6-10
11-15
16-20
21-25
26-30
31-35
36-40
41-45
46-50
51-55
56-60
61-65
66-70
71-75
76-80
81-85

===

86th District
Currently Dem seat
R cand: Linda Schulz
D cand: Jennifer Boysko (incumbent)

DC suburbs (Fairfax), 57.5% white. Incumbent first elected in 2015. R won 50-50 in 2013, D won 55-42 in 2015. Clinton won district 65-29. Ballotpedia Race To Watch.

===

87th District
Currently Dem seat
R cand: Subba Kolla
D cand: John Bell (incumbent)

DC suburbs (Loudon), 55.6% white. Incumbent first elected in 2015. R won 50-49 in 2013, D won 50-48 in 2015. Clinton won district 60-35. Ballotpedia Race To Watch and Flippable Defend district.

===

88th District
Currently GOP seat
R cand: Mark Cole (incumbent)
D cand: Steve Aycock

DC exurbs, 75.0% white. Incumbent first elected in 2001. R won 61-38 in 2013, no D candidate in 2015. Trump won district 54-40. There is a Green and an independent candidate.

===

89th District
Currently Dem seat
R cand: none
D cand: Jerrauld Jones

Norfolk, 35.12% white. No R candidate in 2013 or 2015. Clinton won district 78-17. There is a Libertarian candidate.

===

90th District
Currently Dem seat
R cand: none
D cand: Joseph Lindsey (incumbent)

Norfolk/Virginia Beach, 31.3% white. Incumbent first elected in 2014 special. No R candidate in 2013, D won 80-19 in 2014 special, no R candidate in 2015. Clinton won district 75-21.

===

Next time: 91-95
posted by Chrysostom at 9:20 AM on September 25, 2017 [24 favorites]

What, now we're complaining about how oh-noes-my-job-doesn't-let-me-do-what-I-want-all-day? That's why it's a job. Let's move on.
posted by Melismata at 9:20 AM on September 25, 2017 [1 favorite]

Excellent Josh Marshall editorial on Trump and the Weaponization of Military Sacrifice

One reason for the resistance to standing armies was that they made the state too strong. Another reason was that they tended to be used to fight wars which – in addition to the other problems with wars – distorted or endangered the civilian character of democratic government. What we’re seeing today from President Trump is a very specific danger with the militarization of civic culture: an anti-democratic leader can use military sacrifice as a totem to squelch dissent. [...]

The word ‘fascism’ gets thrown around casually these days. Better words for this are probably ‘militarism’ and ‘authoritarianism’. But this use of betrayed sacrifice as a weapon against dissent – and more specifically against non-authoritarian political movements – is precisely the imagery and narrative far-right groups in Germany used in the aftermath of World War I and through the Nazi rise to power in the early 1930s. In fact, the weaponization of betrayed military sacrifice is a common, almost universal feature of rightist political movements.

I've been seeing this phenomenon for my entire adult life--that to question or criticize the use of the military, specific actions of military personnel, or the conduct of police is a betrayal of those people. This rhetorical technique seems very much tied to preventing those who employ such arguments from having to consider their complicity in cruel military actions (e.g. Iraq/Afghanistan) or police brutality (e.g., Freddy Gray, Michael Brown, Philando Castile...). It's such a disingenuous argument to, because to say that Sgt. So-and-So is over "defending our freedoms in Iraq" so one should not engage in peaceful protest here suggests that the person is concerned about "our freedoms" in a way that is a flimsy pretense for stopping behavior that makes them personally uncomfortable. This rhetorical cudgel is employed specifically to shut down discussion and debate. I hate it, and it needs to go away post ASAP.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:26 AM on September 25, 2017 [41 favorites]

does your job require you to salute the flag every day you start it?
posted by pyramid termite at 9:26 AM on September 25, 2017 [3 favorites]

What, now we're complaining about how oh-noes-my-job-doesn't-let-me-do-what-I-want-all-day? That's why it's a job. Let's move on.

That's not the argument being made at all and saying so seems disingenuous.
posted by greermahoney at 9:27 AM on September 25, 2017 [33 favorites]

Pretty sure the consensus here is arguing against the president infringing on the 1A rights of citizens and trying to get them fired for doing something unrelated to their job requirements, and something that was only recently added because DoD paid for "patriotism displays." And despite the fact that most of their employers and co-workers have explicitly said it's ok with them.
posted by chris24 at 9:28 AM on September 25, 2017 [16 favorites]

Among the more bizarre anti-kneeling arguments I've heard is the one that so-and-so's son is in Afghanistan right now, fighting for the right to kneel and speak freely.

Because the best way to respect the defenders is to undermine and suppress the rights being defended.
posted by Behemoth at 9:31 AM on September 25, 2017 [4 favorites]

I'm not free to do what I want at work, but I am free to do things that my employer doesn't care about, one way or the other. The government doesn't get to tell private employers what kind of speech they should fire me over.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:32 AM on September 25, 2017 [8 favorites]

i say we refuse drive through service to any bastard who won't sign a loyalty oath

thatll learn em
posted by flabdablet at 9:34 AM on September 25, 2017 [3 favorites]

Not in the "I would be seriously sad to find out he was an asshole" group that Dolly Parton is in

What the what, now? *reads* Well, shit.
posted by petebest at 9:37 AM on September 25, 2017 [6 favorites]

more like

NEW THREAT

amirite
posted by entropicamericana at 9:39 AM on September 25, 2017 [10 favorites]

Pretty sure the consensus here is arguing against the president infringing on the 1A rights of citizens and trying to get them fired for doing something unrelated to their job requirements, and something that was only recently added because DoD paid for "patriotism displays." And despite the fact that most of their employers and co-workers have explicitly said it's ok with them.

Jeepers. It took until this post for me to realize why this NPR show is named 1A.
posted by tilde at 9:41 AM on September 25, 2017 [4 favorites]

Rocket 88 also good.
posted by kirkaracha at 12:00 PM on September 25

*blushes*
posted by rocket88 at 9:42 AM on September 25, 2017 [22 favorites]

(To clarify for posterity: nobody in this thread was saying Dolly Parton was an asshole; quite the opposite, in fact.)
posted by Atom Eyes at 9:43 AM on September 25, 2017 [5 favorites]

Obligatory: Did you just say you think the troops are jerks??
posted by Room 641-A at 9:44 AM on September 25, 2017 [6 favorites]

> All this spiraling helplessly into seemingly inevitable war is making it really hard to concentrate on the dumb shit I'm supposed to do today.

Seriously. It's hard enough to maintain any sense of purpose at work without all this bullshit hanging over your shoulder as you wade through whatever bureaucratic nonsense the day holds.
posted by The Card Cheat at 9:46 AM on September 25, 2017 [4 favorites]

Obligatory: Did you just say you think the troops are jerks??

Wow. I'd forgotten how much the animation improves in later seasons.
posted by Faint of Butt at 9:50 AM on September 25, 2017

does your job require you to salute the flag every day you start it?
No, but my first 13 years of schooling did.
posted by oneswellfoop at 9:50 AM on September 25, 2017 [3 favorites]

purpose? work? i know those words but that sentence makes no sense
posted by entropicamericana at 9:51 AM on September 25, 2017 [3 favorites]

Dave Zirin: The Fragile, Toxic Masculinity of Donald Trump: ~~His comments about NFL players reveal just how divisive and narcissistic the president really is~~ A Continuing Series

Fixed for reusability.
posted by Gelatin at 10:19 AM on September 25, 2017 [4 favorites]

NEW THREAD

NEW THREAD

NEW THREAD

NEW THREAD

NEW THREAD

NEW THREAD

NEW THREAD

NEW THREAD

NEW THREAD.........THATAWAY
posted by lalochezia at 10:21 AM on September 25, 2017 [3 favorites]

If Puerto Rico were a full state things would be going very differently.

If Hillary Clinton were president things would be going very differently. Statehood isn't really the problem. Clinton has been very vocal about Trump's disgraceful indifference.
posted by JackFlash at 10:31 AM on September 25, 2017 [9 favorites]

NEW THREAD

But I don't want to go into the new thread. There's terrible things in there. I'm going to stay right here in last week until this is all over.
posted by loquacious at 1:04 PM on September 25, 2017 [15 favorites]

But I don't want to go into the new thread...

It's closing time. (As the song says, "You don't have to go home, but you can't stay here.")

Besides, we're all linking arms over in the new thread.
posted by LeLiLo at 1:37 PM on September 25, 2017 [5 favorites]

I was told there'd be cookies.
posted by petebest at 3:16 PM on September 25, 2017 [3 favorites]

I'm going to stay right here in last week until this is all over.

Have you ever heard of these things called Langoliers
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 3:24 PM on September 25, 2017 [3 favorites]

Have you ever heard of these things called Langoliers

Are you going to finish your sentence or did something eat you?
posted by loquacious at 3:32 PM on September 25, 2017 [4 favorites]

🍪🍪🥛
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 3:53 PM on September 25, 2017 [3 favorites]

I'm picturing Martin Shkreli and Anthony Weiner as cellmates now.
posted by 1970s Antihero at 11:08 AM on September 25
Epony-etc.
posted by GrammarMoses at 4:34 PM on September 25, 2017

> My lovely wife and I are watching Ken Burns' Vietnam documentary, and watching this historical disaster unfold in retrospect is almost making me physically sick.

The Vietnam War on FanFare.
posted by homunculus at 9:58 PM on September 25, 2017

Trump didn't know to put his hand over his heart during the National Anthem until this year.

More like, as he has no heart he found the process too confusing.
posted by Bella Donna at 1:22 PM on September 28, 2017 [3 favorites]

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You raised my hopes and dashed them quite expertly, sir. Bravo! September 15, 2017 10:34 AM Subscribe

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You raised my hopes and dashed them quite expertly, sir. Bravo!
September 15, 2017 10:34 AM Subscribe