You raised my hopes and dashed them quite expertly, sir. Bravo!
September 15, 2017 10:34 AM   Subscribe

It’s Schrodinger’s President! Chuck and Nancy have a deal with Trump on DACA…or do they? Republicans are outraged at Trump’s unilateral caving…or are they? Trump likes to wait for the facts before commenting on a terrorist attack…or does he? Back channels are working on cooling down the North Korea nuclear crisis…or are they? The GOP attempt to repeal the ACA is dead…or is it?
posted by darkstar (2342 comments total) 116 users marked this as a favorite
 
A new thread! It's like witnessing the birth of a star or something -- you know it happens all the time, but to actually catch it..!
posted by Capt. Renault at 10:38 AM on September 15 [71 favorites]


Listening to Wharf Rat right now, darkstar. Thanks.
posted by kingless at 10:39 AM on September 15 [6 favorites]


Dude, I can't take this.

Is it malicious, all of them? Or so they really still think that they are Doing The Peoples' Business?
posted by wenestvedt at 10:39 AM on September 15 [2 favorites]


Donnie loves stuff he's familiar with, and you can bet shooting the shit with guys like Chuck Schumer is a lot more comfortable to him than dealing with Mitch "can't disguise how much he dislikes you" McConnell and Paul "Stepford Eddie Munster" Ryan.

And everyone praises him and calls him "Presidential" and "Bipartisan!" Even the Fox News gang! He's loving this.
posted by leotrotsky at 10:40 AM on September 15 [29 favorites]


Good work on the title, now can someone tell me where I can find the Farnsworth Parabox so I can get to a saner place?
posted by Behemoth at 10:40 AM on September 15 [11 favorites]


So good to finally find the top of the thread. This must be what it's like to dig your way back to the surface after being buried alive.
posted by Strange Interlude at 10:41 AM on September 15 [12 favorites]


It’s Schrodinger’s President

but it's Pandora's box.
posted by snuffleupagus at 10:41 AM on September 15 [26 favorites]


Whenever you see Trump "turning over a new leaf," or "pivoting", or whatever they wanna call it, remember that to have a change of heart, you've gotta have one.
posted by sutt at 10:42 AM on September 15 [27 favorites]


So much optimism at the top of new threads.
posted by mazola at 10:42 AM on September 15 [8 favorites]


Less Schrodinger's Cat and more Simon's Cat, I think.
posted by oneswellfoop at 10:42 AM on September 15 [4 favorites]


Is it malicious, all of them? Or so they really still think that they are Doing The Peoples' Business?

Of course Republicans think they're doing the peoples' business. The oil people, the hedge fund people, the payday loan people...
posted by Gelatin at 10:45 AM on September 15 [24 favorites]


Summer might be winding down but you can still get your Trump Tweet Flip Flops for wearing around the house.
posted by msbutah at 10:46 AM on September 15 [3 favorites]


This must be what it's like to dig your way back to the surface after being buried alive.

Not as much as you'd expect.

Um, or... so I've heard...
posted by GenjiandProust at 10:48 AM on September 15 [4 favorites]


I'm a white male aged 35-100. People vote for me to be president no matter how dumb my ideas.
posted by Talez at 10:51 AM on September 15 [28 favorites]


Finally! The guy that heads the Face-Eating Leopards Party and reads that fucking Snake Poem at rallies has come 'round to our side!
posted by Cookiebastard at 10:54 AM on September 15 [61 favorites]


It also occurs to me that at this point the Republic is just obeying the second law of thermodynamics.
posted by Talez at 10:54 AM on September 15 [5 favorites]


For those not familiar:

Schrodinger: the blond kid who played the piano.
Chuck: What Peppermint Patty called Charlie Brown.
Nancy: Frizzy-haired friend of Sluggo.
Trump: Oxford Dictionary. Verb [informal] Break wind audibly.
DACA: What's up?
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 10:54 AM on September 15 [40 favorites]


also...

The Donald: A Duck, Uncle Scrooge's oldest nephew
posted by oneswellfoop at 10:56 AM on September 15 [5 favorites]


mazola: "So much optimism at the top of new threads."

Here's some optimism: Someday this nightmare will end. Donald Trump can't be president forever. That gives me a glimmer of hope.
posted by double block and bleed at 10:56 AM on September 15 [16 favorites]


in the irradiated wastelands of FutureEarth, mutant bards will sing of the great battles between the giants Maga and Daca
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:57 AM on September 15 [63 favorites]


DACA: What's up?

ACADACA:

Trumper! Trumper! Trumper! Trumper!
I was caught
In the middle of a Texan desert
I looked round
And I knew there was no going northward
My mind raced
And I thought what could I do
And I knew
There was no healthcare, no healthcare from you
You've been.... Trumpenstruck!
posted by Talez at 11:01 AM on September 15 [6 favorites]


I can't help but think this sudden coziness with the Dems is a set-up of some kind.
posted by Thorzdad at 11:02 AM on September 15 [11 favorites]




DarMAGA and Jelad at Tenagra
DACA when the walls fell.
posted by Sophie1 at 11:04 AM on September 15 [61 favorites]


Trump's support has surely eroded since the inauguration, but I don't know why anyone expects his core supporters to abandon him over flip-flops, incompetence, or betrayal of the GOP. He's still doing great at the one policy they elected him for: causing agony to us sanctimonious, know-it-all liberals. Trumpism is an ideology of spite, not policy.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 11:05 AM on September 15 [65 favorites]


I can't help but think this sudden coziness with the Dems is a set-up of some kind.

He literally just realized that people "really fucking hate" him, and he's looking for a win.
posted by sutt at 11:07 AM on September 15 [9 favorites]


I can't help but think this sudden coziness with the Dems is a set-up of some kind.


Set ups require thinking and planning ahead. What indications has Trump given you of this capacity?
posted by leotrotsky at 11:08 AM on September 15 [3 favorites]


I can't help but think this sudden coziness with the Dems is a set-up of some kind.

I would agree, and I am 100% sure Trump will turn around and do something awful soon, but I can't imagine Trump as the kind of person who has plans or strategies. So I can't call it a set-up. This week he's mad at McConnell and Ryan and next week he'll remember he's a racist who wants to burn everything Obama did to the ground.
posted by Glibpaxman at 11:09 AM on September 15 [8 favorites]


How. Is. There. Always. A. Tweet? (or two)

From 2013 and 2014.

@realDonaldTrump
.@ESPN’s apology (Brent Musburger) was a disgrace to broadcasting --- stop being so politically correct!


@realDonaldTrump
Obama has admitted that he spends his mornings watching @ESPN. Then he plays golf, fundraises & grants amnesty to illegals.
posted by chris24 at 11:10 AM on September 15 [32 favorites]


The UK NHS situation is ... complicated. Many people are paying to have certain types of operations and procedures done privately, rather than wait months, sometimes many months, in pain or with deteriorating health. This is often not cheap, so it's a case of if you have savings, or can take out a loan, or if you have private medical cover or insurance. (And as for dental - it's really not good here) I can see this trend continuing, probably accelerating, for various largely funding-related reasons.

Of course, having the NHS as default means there is something substantive there covering most (though not all) health conditions, and you have to directly pay very little or nothing at all for most things on it. And if it's an emergency, you go in and don't have the additional stress of "Can I afford this?" or not, if you are still conscious. But there's better - with more condition coverage and much shorter waiting times - national health services in other countries than in the UK.
posted by Wordshore at 11:13 AM on September 15 [7 favorites]


I can't help but think this sudden coziness with the Dems is a set-up of some kind.

I wouldn't turn my back on this guy until he stops breathing. And even then, I'd stick a pin in him to make sure he isn't playing dead just to hear the eulogies.
posted by pracowity at 11:17 AM on September 15 [41 favorites]


for various largely funding-related reasons.

Yeah, it's important when looking at the UK's health system to remember that their right-wingers are right up there with the U.S.' national GOP in their devotion to cutting public services because Fuck You, Give Us Money, and they've had a lot more time in power in which to do damage.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 11:18 AM on September 15 [26 favorites]


Trump's support has surely eroded since the inauguration, but I don't know why anyone expects his core supporters to abandon him over flip-flops, incompetence, or betrayal of the GOP. He's still doing great at the one policy they elected him for: causing agony to us sanctimonious, know-it-all liberals. Trumpism is an ideology of spite, not policy.

Trump Says Jump. His Supporters Ask, How High?
Michael Barber and Jeremy C. Pope, political scientists at Brigham Young University, reported in their recent paper “Does Party Trump Ideology? Disentangling Party and Ideology in America,” that many Republican voters are:

"malleable to the point of innocence, and self-reported expressions of ideological fealty are quickly abandoned for policies that — once endorsed by a well-known party leader — run contrary to that expressed ideology."

Those most willing to adjust their positions on ten issues ranging from abortion to guns to taxes are firm Republicans, Trump loyalists, self-identified conservatives and low information Republicans.

The Barber-Pope study suggests that for many Republicans partisan identification is more a tribal affiliation than an ideological commitment.

Many partisans are, in effect, more aligned with the leader of their party than with the principles of the party. (Although Barber and Pope confined their study to Republicans, they note that Democrats may “react in similar ways given the right set of circumstances.”)
posted by Sangermaine at 11:18 AM on September 15 [14 favorites]


Is it malicious, all of them? Or so they really still think that they are Doing The Peoples' Business?

That mostly depends on your definitions of "doing," "the people," and "business."
posted by duffell at 11:22 AM on September 15 [7 favorites]


In other things I wouldn't have believed until I saw them this week, Kid Rock appears to be doubling down on the Senate run rumors..


These idiots can't get anything right: Caligula appointed his horse to the Senate, not his horse's ass.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 11:22 AM on September 15 [46 favorites]


> "The UK NHS situation is ... complicated."

Having lived in both places, the UK system is unquestionably better than the U.S. system. There is no comparison. None.

The Tories might someday completely fuck it up to the point that this is no longer true, but they haven't yet. Nowhere close.
posted by kyrademon at 11:22 AM on September 15 [26 favorites]


I would take an actual horse in the Senate any day over most of these fuckers.
posted by lydhre at 11:25 AM on September 15 [19 favorites]


I can't help but think this sudden coziness with the Dems is a set-up of some kind.

Give Schumer and Pelosi some credit. They don't care if it's a set up. They're not really losing anything, and they know better than to trust Trump. It sucks if Trump pulls the rug out from under them, but if he does, they're just in the same position they were before, and the fight to protect the Dreamers and all the rest of it keeps on keeping on. If Schumer and Pelosi get fucked over, they can look very disappointed and concerned and make the appropriate noises about how they tried to come to a bipartisan solution, and they negotiated in good faith, but the president didn't keep his promises, which is, of course, a sad pattern with even his campaign promises to his supporters, but Dems are trying to govern for everybody and and and, you see where I'm going, surely.
posted by yasaman at 11:26 AM on September 15 [129 favorites]


And there is no setup, just chaos. It's what happens when the President is a horrible whirling void filled with nothing but ego and stupidity.
posted by lydhre at 11:26 AM on September 15 [11 favorites]


These idiots can't get anything right: Caligula appointed his horse to the Senate, not his horse's ass.

It's difficult to know what he's really on about, though:

No kidding, gun slinging, spurs hitting the floor
Call me Hoss, I'm the Boss, with the sauce in the horse

posted by mandolin conspiracy at 11:26 AM on September 15 [2 favorites]


Thorzdad I can't help but think this sudden coziness with the Dems is a set-up of some kind.

Eh, setup implies planning, and Trump is not a planner.

If you mean "can we trust Trump", the answer is of course not.

If you mean "will Trump eventually (that is, within a few days) break faith on this deal", the answer is of course.

And I'm sure that Schumer and Pelosi know that and are planning on it. I **HOPE** that they just did this because they knew they could play Trump like a rube and sew more chaos in the Republican Party, because the Republicans being too busy fighting each other to destroy everything is really all we can hope will keep us alive until 2018.

I don't think Trump plans on double crossing Pelosi and Schumer anymore than he plans to keep breathing, it's just something he does as naturally as he breathes. Trump is a betrayer. He has no honor, no faith, no loyalty, and he will never keep to a bargain. That's not a planned setup, that's just Trump being the same vile waste of oxygen he's always been.

Which is why I'm glad all Pelosi and Schumer gave him was the sort of transparently fake praise that he so desperately craves rather than any actual policy concessions or promises. If the cost is just a couple of political leaders buttering up Trump, than the gain in terms of Republican chaos is well worth it. If they'd actually promised anything, or worse signed anything away on the expectation of Trump keeping up his side of a bargain they'd be fools and suckers. But much as I don't care for either Schumer or Pelosi I don't think either of them is a fool or a sucker.
posted by sotonohito at 11:30 AM on September 15 [39 favorites]


"malleable to the point of innocence, and self-reported expressions of ideological fealty are quickly abandoned for policies that — once endorsed by a well-known party leader — run contrary to that expressed ideology."

Thanks for the link, Sangermaine! Very interesting. "Innocence" isn't the word I'd use ("clueless dumbshittery" comes more to mind), but it strikes me that this is why it's so easy to manipulate and brainwash the more right-wing authoritarian sections of the electorate - wave the flag at them and have them listen to Fox or read Newsmax and they'll be eating out of your hand and get them to accept your past immoral acts! Or if you're Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi, a little well-placed flattery (or something) will get you everywhere with Donny Easily Led Two Scoops.

And while I think it's a 100% good thing that (most) Democrats are more with the critical thinking and less easily led, it does make a Democratic politician's job harder. Democrats are simply not "malleable to the point of innocence" - introduce a Medicare for All proposal and listen to the beanplating and criticism! - so it's more of a job to work with us. But I like to think it's worth it.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 11:31 AM on September 15 [7 favorites]


As long as I'm providing some comic relief to this horror show, here's MAD Magazine connecting Donald to the Cleveland Indians (which I think is an awful thing to do to Cleveland, but I was born there and my father moved us out when I was 5½)

I think we've reached a point here where it can now be argued that we might be worse off with a President who's a competent and consistent Republican (as Republicans are now defining themselves)...
posted by oneswellfoop at 11:32 AM on September 15 [2 favorites]


The AVClub says "It's Friday Afternoon -- here are some videos of sad Trump boys burning their MAGA hats". Their suggested clip made me bark out a laugh at the end.

(I've been following these threads for what seems like thousands of years but never contributed -- thanks y'all for your links and insights, and thanks mods for overseeing this whole...thing)
posted by Monster_Zero at 11:33 AM on September 15 [57 favorites]


NEW from Buzzfeed: Trump Advisers Secretly Met With Jordan’s King While One Was Pushing A Huge Nuclear Power Deal: Michael Flynn, Jared Kushner, and Steve Bannon met with King Abdullah II while Flynn was reportedly pressing for a controversial, for-profit deal to build nuclear power plants in the Middle East.
posted by lalex at 11:40 AM on September 15 [18 favorites]


More of these headlines, please! WaPo: Hill Republicans’ influence ebbs — and they are unsure what to do about it
Despite their control of both chambers and with a GOP partner in the White House, congressional Republicans are laboring, sometimes awkwardly, to project leverage over efforts to rewrite the nation’s tax laws and craft a bill to decide the fate of hundreds of thousands of young undocumented immigrants.

Some are privately fuming over the valuable political cover Trump is giving to centrist Democratic senators who are top targets in the 2018 midterms in states the president won. By negotiating with them and appearing at events together, the president is potentially easing their challenge of winning conservative voters.

They have played down Trump’s talks with Democrats, issued warnings that the effort could prove futile and looked for a silver lining — that the president is taking the politically risky lead shepherding legislation on divisive matters.

But so far, none of these approaches have produced what GOP leaders on Capitol Hill hoped they would have after their party won the White House and Congress in November: control.
-----
[After meeting with "Chuck and Nancy], Trump had sent a clear message: For the moment at least, McConnell and Ryan have been stripped of much of the deference presidents historically invest in their party’s leaders on Capitol Hill.
If you're going to violate norms, why not go for the whole pie. Republican leadership? hah!

Also, I turned on the radio yesterday morning to hear this amazing exchange. House Republicans either have no clue what to cut for taxes, or know that everyone will hate it it (hint: medicare!) and don't want to say until the bill is on the floor. NPR: Rep. Brady Encouraged Tax Overhaul Will Pass This Year You really need to hear the clip to get the steel in Mary Louise Kelly's voice!
[Rep. Kevin Brady of Texas]: Yes. And we want to focus - to balance this within the budget over time. And so part of it comes from stronger economic growth. But, also, that alone won't complete it. So you have to jettison a lot of special provisions for some - lobbyist loopholes, exclusions, all that - so we can lower tax rates for everybody. That's part of going to a much simpler tax code.

KELLY: Can you commit to one specific tax break you would be willing to cut to pay for this?

BRADY: Well, there are lots of them. You know...

KELLY: Name one.

BRADY: ...One of them would be - well, look, there's so many. We'll bring the plan out. And at the end the day, this isn't our tax code. It belongs to the American people. And so if they want something as simple and fair as a postcard, we can deliver for them.

KELLY: But let me ask you again. Is there one single thing that you would be willing to cut?

BRADY: Well, there's dozens. There's dozens. So - and that will be part of the tax reform plan.

KELLY: Let me move on ....
Of course, then there was this exchange this morning with BBC and the CEO of the Plowshares fund, where he basically say that 45 has been pressing his military advisors for a way to swiftly bomb NK into compliance "similar to syria?!?", and I'm in the car going "noooooooooooooo!". Lets hope the military advisors can keep stonewalling. :/
posted by Hermeowne Grangepurr at 11:41 AM on September 15 [49 favorites]


a way to swiftly bomb NK into compliance "similar to syria?!?"

If NK were at all "similar to Syria," that (and more) would already happened, and NK knows this. I'm really, really afraid that at some point Trump is going to decide that the number of dead civilians in both Koreas isn't his problem and will just give the order to strike. Really, how many among his base would give a shit?
posted by Rykey at 11:49 AM on September 15 [4 favorites]


It really is astounding how badly the Republicans have fucked this up. They control everything yet the can't seem to accomplish anything. Yes, I am aware that the Trump administration is gutting many vital regulatory regimes and that this is non-trivial. But a Republican Congress and President should have been able to enact everything Republicans have ever dreamed of by now, yet they can't seem to get their act together to pass even their most cherished priorities. It's really astonishing, and I guess it's the silver lining on this otherwise pitch-black cloud.

If anyone but Trump were President, they Republicans would have replaced the Statue of Liberty with a giant statue of Reagan raising his middle finger to the world by now.
posted by Sangermaine at 11:50 AM on September 15 [57 favorites]


Trump calls single-payer 'a curse'

Didn't he at one time praise the Canadian healthcare system?
posted by Beholder at 11:51 AM on September 15 [4 favorites]


Really, how many among his base would give a shit?

Depends. Do they have loved ones in the military, cause a new Korean war is tantamount to throwing a whole shitload of Red-State kids into a meat-grinder. It won't be drips and drabs like Iraq--it'll be long-ass casualty lists read on the news and published in the local paper. More like Vietnam circa 1968 than Operation Desert Storm or any of the other "little wars" we've dabbled in these last number of years.
posted by Chrischris at 11:53 AM on September 15 [8 favorites]


I'm really, really afraid that at some point Trump is going to decide that the number of dead civilians in both Koreas isn't his problem and will just give the order to strike. Really, how many among his base would give a shit?

This is why it's not going to happen: the US population would no longer be able to purchase any new cellphones for the foreseeable future.
posted by rhizome at 11:55 AM on September 15 [7 favorites]


Didn't he at one time praise the Canadian healthcare system?

Welcome to It's Trump's Mind Anyway where the facts are made up and past statements don't matter.
posted by nathan_teske at 11:57 AM on September 15 [14 favorites]


Didn't he at one time praise the Canadian healthcare system?

Australia's, too.
posted by Faint of Butt at 11:57 AM on September 15 [5 favorites]


Depends. Do they have loved ones in the military, cause a new Korean war is tantamount to throwing a whole shitload of Red-State kids into a meat-grinder. It won't be drips and drabs like Iraq--it'll be long-ass casualty lists read on the news and published in the local paper.

yeah, but it'll be their white kids that they're sad about.

not all the koreans.

---

This is why it's not going to happen: the US population would no longer be able to purchase any new cellphones for the foreseeable future.

If by "foreseeable" you mean maybe one or two quarters before all the supply chains get redirected, and maybe the year or so after where the prices spike due to supply constraints, sure, but by the third iphone release after a shooting war, things will be back to normal for US cell phone customers.
posted by anem0ne at 11:57 AM on September 15 [6 favorites]


> by the third iphone release after a shooting war...

Sometimes black humor is all we have left.
posted by RedOrGreen at 12:00 PM on September 15 [8 favorites]


This is why it's not going to happen: the US population would no longer be able to purchase any new cellphones for the foreseeable future.

Less glibly, there are tens of thousands of American troops, and their families, within shelling range of North Korea (and, you know, millions of South Koreans). Anybody threatening war right now, which includes McMaster, is writing a check they'd better damn well know they can't cash.

Of course, if you start to see a massive mobilization of US dependents out of Korea, that would be extremely bad.
posted by zachlipton at 12:01 PM on September 15 [6 favorites]


Third iPhone release after the shooting war? Who is going to make them, and who is going to make them for an American company? I'm not a RAND fellow or anything, so, grain of salt, but by "foreseeable future" I'm thinking decades, or at least until we have a new President. This isn't even touching on computers, TVs, and electronics in general.
posted by rhizome at 12:02 PM on September 15


Sorry, I meant they wouldn't give a shit that millions of North and South Koreans were dead.

But... as with any military action the US has been involved in since Vietnam—plus the benefit of two generations of an all-volunteer military—action in Korea will be will be framed not as a meat-grinder, but of heroes showing those bastards who the mightiest nation on the planet is. Then after it proves to be a meat-grinder (for our soldiers, of course), everybody wails about how fucked up it was to get involved there, and we start all over again when the next opportunity for military action presents itself.
posted by Rykey at 12:02 PM on September 15 [7 favorites]


Richard W. Painter
Richard W. Painter @RWPUSA
Economy class Americans: If you don't like the Treasury Dept. frequent flier program wait to see the peanuts that come with your tax cut

I'm looking forward to hearing him on the CREW case.

Be safe, St. Louis.
posted by Room 641-A at 12:04 PM on September 15 [9 favorites]


It’s Schrodinger’s President

but it's Pandora's box.


Careful, he might grab it.
posted by klanawa at 12:04 PM on September 15 [9 favorites]


Third iPhone release after the shooting war? Who is going to make them, and who is going to make them for an American company? I'm not a RAND fellow or anything, so, grain of salt, but by "foreseeable future" I'm thinking decades, or at least until we have a new President. This isn't even touching on computers, TVs, and electronics in general.

Are you suggesting that the US would find itself under global embargo, or that South Korea and China are so critical to electronics that all production would stop?

I do not for a single instant believe that Taiwan/Japan or any electronics fabrication plants in Latin America/Europe wouldn't be able to pick up the slack.

---

Sometimes black humor is all we have left.

I figure the US will have pretty much everything physical left. Its cities will be fine, its news media getting bomb-ass ratings in prime time.

Its international standing, maybe not so much, but then again, when has that stopped the American regime?
posted by anem0ne at 12:05 PM on September 15 [1 favorite]


Remember Frank? The 11-year-old who wanted to mow the White House lawn? They invited him over, and the White House tweeted out a promotional video, but the press shot a much better clip. It seems that Frank was literally only interested in mowing the lawn, as in, when the President came out to say hi, he just kept mowing.
posted by zachlipton at 12:07 PM on September 15 [91 favorites]


I love the fact that the actually lived "NHS" experience for US visitors is completely different to the fake news 'DEATH PANELS" cant your voting public were exposed to....



I really do.....

working as I do in end of life care & maternity safety transformation in NHS in the SE of UK.... (those are completely cromulent workspaces...You LITERALLY have one chance to get it right...) I'm really worried that we have absorbed enough of your 'healthcare as a commodity' claptrap just because the cost of healthcare are exceeding our funding model for it.

recent amazing patience by HCPs in terms of a 1% payrise cap since forever has given us
SCRAP THE CAP

we are also seeing a new re-organisation into STPs which looking a little bit behind the scenes as I am currently privileged to do look a lot like slash & burn to suit the current budget with no regard for an longer living, ageing, co-morbid, more obese, more demented population that simply defies the current funding model...


but never assume that the discussions in the USA about healthcare reform are not fueling the slash & burn approach by our most right wing politicians and opinion formers...

I read Hilary Clinton's new book because she has literally slaved at the coalface of healthcare reform for so long I knew it would be worth my while. It was more than that.

seeing what you lost is so incredibly confounding for those of us outside the USA, but seeing the practical real world genie you unleashed on us here in the NHS is simply unforgivable...


but hey.....we're just over here in countries decimated by immigration


(FAKE) WE desperately need more immigrants to prop up our health system and everyone in my organisation is frankly terrified by Brexit and the prevailing fake news/Russian attack on our basic systems of democracy & the impact on the NHS

But Really...rby eading "What happened" I realised that while he was gunning for you guys he was quite happy to throw what he learned by destablising you at any and all comers..... the NHS will be Putin's collateral damage cos HRC epitomised everything he cannot control.

what a small man.

NHS


.
posted by Wilder at 12:08 PM on September 15 [23 favorites]




And sorry to threadsit, but on Preview:

This is why it's not going to happen: the US population would no longer be able to purchase any new cellphones for the foreseeable future.

Easy peasy: "Nobody cares more about awesome cell phones than me. And the loser, fake media wants you to believe you won't get any good cell phones at a good price if we attack North Korea. Korean cell phones are so unfair to American workers, and that stops right now. We're gonna build so many cell-phones—the best cell phones, I can tell you that—at a cost to consumers far, far below anything you've ever paid—for a much better phone, with instructions ONLY IN ENGLISH. People will come to me and say, 'Mister President, these American-made cell phones are so great, and we're paying so little for them, can we please pay a little more? Or can they just be a little less awesome for what we're paying for them?'"

They're not his base because he doesn't tell them what they want to hear, after all.
posted by Rykey at 12:11 PM on September 15 [3 favorites]


Didn't he at one time praise the Canadian healthcare system?

And at other times condemned it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 12:13 PM on September 15 [5 favorites]


Are you suggesting that the US would find itself under global embargo, or that South Korea and China are so critical to electronics that all production would stop?

Something like that, yes. I'm not saying all production would stop, because the rest of the world wants Samsung if their factories still exist afterwards.

In general it sounds like you're saying we wouldn't get our hair mussed, but there are more interests involved than Trump's daddy-hate and KJU's self-regard, not all of whom toe the US line as a matter of course.
posted by rhizome at 12:13 PM on September 15 [1 favorite]


Patriotic American Conservatives (tm) will indeed mourn their lost loved ones. Who, of, course, were giving their lives in a war to prevent America from being nuked that was caused by Barack Hussein Obama's cowardly lack of resolve and naive policies, and by fifth column liberals and media at home busy sabotaging our Commander In Chief as he attempts to Save Their Unworthy Communist Asses.

I mean, come on. This is neither their or our first rodeo here.
posted by delfin at 12:14 PM on September 15 [23 favorites]


35 thoughts on Trump 'winging it' with Democrats by former rep. John Leboutillier (R-NY), The Hill opinion contributor
posted by still_wears_a_hat at 12:15 PM on September 15 [1 favorite]


I mowed yards for a living for a few years, and the first thing you learn is that the job is more about making small talk with the elderly than it is about manual labor. It seems Frank has progressed to the second lesson: there's always that one pushy old guy that wants to follow you around while you work and tell you about how the world should work. If only we as a nation could collectively point to our ear protection and mouth "What?? Can't Hear You??" over and over again.
posted by mcdoublewide at 12:15 PM on September 15 [73 favorites]


More like Vietnam circa 1968 than Operation Desert Storm or any of the other "little wars" we've dabbled in these last number of years.


And that's assuming they don't pull a MacArthur and get too close to the Yalu River this time. For any kind of military intervention to be successful, they're basically going to have to clear it with China first, and then say, "OK, we'll get to Pyongyang and take out the Kims, then we'll back off to the DMZ, and you guys can come in to run the show."
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 12:17 PM on September 15 [1 favorite]


For anyone who wants to hear that BBC interview, it starts about 7:15 here.

One of the reasons why the interviewee said that military officials were pushing against a "decapitation" strike was because we would have to evacuate 250k + Americans out of range of conventional weapons on the peninsula.
posted by Hermeowne Grangepurr at 12:20 PM on September 15 [1 favorite]


35 thoughts on Trump 'winging it' with Democrats
The Hill does listicles now?
posted by oneswellfoop at 12:20 PM on September 15 [1 favorite]


In general it sounds like you're saying we wouldn't get our hair mussed, but there are more interests involved than Trump's daddy-hate and KJU's self-regard, not all of whom toe the US line as a matter of course.

I mean, okay, maybe we Americans would get get our hair a little mussed, but I'd say that the Korean peninsula might have it a bit worse? What I'm really saying is that while people love Samsung now, their position near the top of the smartphone pile is precarious. A shooting war would clearly knock them off their perch, and while sure, this doesn't mean Chinese companies like Xiaomi, oppo, Huawei will necessarily take their place if a Chinese embargo occurs, there are plenty of other Asian companies that could take up the slack.

I'm more skeptical of the belief that electronics are what's going to hold any armed conflict at bay.
posted by anem0ne at 12:23 PM on September 15 [4 favorites]


STL Update: Police are out in riot gear downtown and are arresting people.

If only the police were so eager to arrest in Charlottesville...

I wonder what's different this time.
posted by anem0ne at 12:26 PM on September 15 [51 favorites]


Chemerinsky brief argues Trump's pardon of Arpaio is void, Debra Cassens Weiss, ABA Journal (contains link to pdf of brief)
A proposed amicus brief filed Monday argues that President Donald Trump’s pardon of Sheriff Joe Arpaio is void because it violates the Constitution. The brief (PDF) was submitted to a federal judge in Phoenix who is considering whether the pardon, issued before Arpaio had a chance to appeal his contempt conviction, requires her to vacate the conviction...

Taking a position against the pardon are the authors of the amicus brief: University of California at Berkeley law dean Erwin Chemerinsky, retired law professor Michael Tigar and lawyer Jane Tigar. The trio argue the pardon is void for three reasons.

First, the brief argues the pardon is not authorized by Article II’s grant of pardon power for “offenses against the United States.” Arpaio’s contempt conviction is not an “offense” within the meaning of that provision, the brief argues. Second, the amicus brief argues that the pardon violates the principle that Article III courts have a duty to provide effective redress when a public official violates the Constitution. Third, the brief argues that Article III courts have inherent power to enforce their orders “and this power exists outside and beyond legislative empowerment and executive whim.”

[U.S. District Judge Susan Bolton said she] was considering dismissing the case without vacating the conviction, report the Washington Post and BuzzFeed News.

Bolton said no final judgment had been entered because Arpaio hadn’t been sentenced, so vacating the conviction and all orders in the case didn’t appear to be an option. She said the government hadn’t provided authority that supports an order of vacatur under similar circumstances and gave the Justice Department until Thursday to file a supplemental brief.
posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 12:26 PM on September 15 [48 favorites]


Unfortunately, Trump will never leave us
posted by growabrain at 12:34 PM on September 15 [5 favorites]


So some more on this, the verdict was sat on for weeks before it was announced. A couple of weeks ago, barricades started going up around the courthouse. Noone knew what day it was going to come out, but the assumption was that if the barricades were up then he was going to get off. The city started shutting things down over the past few days. County and city police have been moved to 12 hour shifts. The governor has called in the National Guard. Downtown employers have either closed or sent people to work from home. Schools have cancelled classes and afterschool activities. Ground floor businesses have boarded up their windows. A Moonlight Ramble bike ride is off, Shakespeare Festival is off, and there are questions if the U2 concert is still going to happen etc. Even the freaking Aldi by my house closed and I'm like 5 miles away from there.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 12:35 PM on September 15 [63 favorites]


Wowzer. He'll flip his lid if the courts deny him his ONE RING TO RULE THEM ALL.
posted by notyou at 12:36 PM on September 15 [3 favorites]


Thinking about St. Louis and all the different pieces of political and policy activism that could interlock together to move us toward justice (in addition to the accountability measures that folks have already talked about)
- voting rights protections (Missouri enacted a voter ID requirement in 2016) so that voting public reflects diverse community instead of predominantly white homeowner demographic

- bail reform (and community bond funds in the meantime) to reduce the community impacts of racially biased arrests

- de-militarization of police departments (see urban shield, see sales of military weapons to "first responders")

- de-escalation of responses to 911 calls via community based alternatives to policing (like how does having a dude with a gun show up deescalate a family in crisis?)

- prevent privatization of prisons/jails (see Black Lives Matter policy platform)
posted by spamandkimchi at 12:38 PM on September 15 [20 favorites]


So some more on this, the verdict was sat on for weeks before it was announced. A couple of weeks ago, barricades started going up around the courthouse. Noone knew what day it was going to come out, but the assumption was that if the barricades were up then he was going to get off. The city started shutting things down over the past few days. County and city police have been moved to 12 hour shifts. The governor has called in the National Guard. Downtown employers have either closed or sent people to work from home. Schools have cancelled classes and afterschool activities. Ground floor businesses have boarded up their windows. A Moonlight Ramble bike ride is off, Shakespeare Festival is off, and there are questions if the U2 concert is still going to happen etc. Even the freaking Aldi by my house closed and I'm like 5 miles away from there.

ya know, maybe if you're certain that your verdict will cause intense civil unrest, rethink your fucking racist-ass verdict
posted by lydhre at 12:41 PM on September 15 [106 favorites]


A verdict that will cause intense civil unrest is today's exact definition of a commitment to "law and order".
posted by oneswellfoop at 12:48 PM on September 15 [18 favorites]


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posted by spamandkimchi at 12:50 PM on September 15 [29 favorites]


Aw jeez I just remembered Ferguson is a suburb of St. Louis

So a judge there went through the Ferguson riots and was like, 'here's a good way to rule.' AND is about ready to retire?


Is there something that I'm not getting about this case? Like beyond people just being evil violent racist shits? Is there something else that would explain this judicial decision?
posted by angrycat at 12:50 PM on September 15 [16 favorites]


Trump calls single-payer 'a curse'

Didn't he at one time praise the Canadian healthcare system?


He doesn't actually believe either one. He says things because he thinks they're useful. That they conflict with each other is unimportant to him.
posted by scalefree at 12:51 PM on September 15 [5 favorites]


Is there something that I'm not getting about this case? Like beyond people just being evil violent racist shits? Is there something else that would explain this judicial decision?

No, you pretty much nailed it.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 12:53 PM on September 15 [11 favorites]


I mean, the judge blatantly says it in his decision
posted by fluttering hellfire at 12:56 PM on September 15 [14 favorites]


From growabrain's link:
Before Trump, we lived in a make-believe world of our own creation. The first black man in history had been elected president. The first woman was about to succeed him. Nothing, certainly not an infantile blowhard who thrived on debt and deception, could derail the inevitable rise of a lasting liberal majority. The arc of the moral universe, we were assured, bent toward justice.

" There was a fantastic universal sense that whatever we were doing was right, that we were winning. . . .

And that, I think, was the handle—that sense of inevitable victory over the forces of Old and Evil. Not in any mean or military sense; we didn’t need that. Our energy would simply prevail. There was no point in fighting—on our side or theirs. We had all the momentum; we were riding the crest of a high and beautiful wave. . . .

So now, less than five years later, you can go up on a steep hill in Las Vegas and look West, and with the right kind of eyes you can almost see the high-water mark—that place where the wave finally broke and rolled back.” - HST, Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas

45 years later, not much has changed.
posted by delfin at 12:58 PM on September 15 [57 favorites]


this doesn't mean Chinese companies like Xiaomi, oppo, Huawei will necessarily take their place if a Chinese embargo occurs, [but] there are plenty of other Asian companies that could take up the slack.

Yeah, I'm not so sure about that, especially if China decides to fence off Taiwan.

I'm more skeptical of the belief that electronics are what's going to hold any armed conflict at bay.

It's not electronics per se, it's the associated economy. Tim Cook and Lowell McAdam aren't just going to throw their hands up in frustration.
posted by rhizome at 12:59 PM on September 15 [1 favorite]


Oh, and there's speculation that the verdict was delayed because they didn't want to disrupt a Cardinals home stand, or Labor Day or the Cards home stand after Labor Day.

(They're at Wrigley right now, up 2-1 in 5th)
posted by fluttering hellfire at 1:00 PM on September 15 [1 favorite]


Yeah, I'm not so sure about that, especially if China decides to fence off Taiwan.

So, like... if China decides to fence of Taiwan, I think lack of cellphones is going to be the least of our global problems.
posted by anem0ne at 1:03 PM on September 15 [3 favorites]


And we're back!

Hi, I'm MetaFilter's petebest, here with the zachlex/lalipton dimensional anomaly to bring you the best in hivemind fooferah and cromulent linkpieces. But we can't do it alone! We need your crumpled singles and couch change!

If you're like most of the sentient AI that constitute megathread contributors, you're no doubt aware that MetaFilter is a real thing that uses up money. I know, right?!

If you've enjoyed exclusive past derails such as Primary Relitigation: Oh Hell No, and SmallTextBrackets: ModSquad Revisited, you can help make a valued contribution! Think of it as an ice cream cone you buy your sanity on a breezy afternoon at the park. And for just thirty-nine units of monetary measure, you might receive your choice of the collectible Qball Smockfish's Disco Swing Party Hoedown (Director's Cut) DVD, or not!

So click now! And thank you! And now back to our multicast of the 2017 classic film Oh My God Srsly WTF.
posted by petebest at 1:04 PM on September 15 [94 favorites]


Here's some optimism: Someday this nightmare will end. Donald Trump can't be president forever. That gives me a glimmer of hope.

The Onion, 2013
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:05 PM on September 15 [13 favorites]




Samsung has long had a virtual global monopoly on LED screens. Other companies taking up the slack would take years due to lack of infrastructure. Even if you're holding a non-Samsung phone you are probably looking at a Samsung screen.
posted by wobumingbai at 1:08 PM on September 15 [4 favorites]


It just seems like when a cop snarls about going to kill a guy, goes out with a fucking AK-47, kills the guy, and then plants a gun it should be the end of the story. Walks like a homicidal maniac, talks like a homicidal maniac, acts like a homicidal maniac.

I mean I'm probably just having a white person naive moment here but FUCK ME THIS IS FUCKED UP
posted by angrycat at 1:16 PM on September 15 [85 favorites]


The Onion, 2013

Gotta say, that "Why, by 2020, I, a man who recently tried to extort the sitting president of the United States to release his college and passport records, might even begin to show signs of serious and unavoidable decline in mental and physical faculties, and doesn’t that just perk your spirits right up?" does not in fact perk me up the way it might have in 2013 :P
posted by thefoxgod at 1:21 PM on September 15 [9 favorites]


Well, we have progressed somewhat from the old days. This time there was a trial!
posted by delfin at 1:21 PM on September 15 [6 favorites]


It occurs to me that Donald J. Trump is all but a physical embodiment of the seven deadly sins of Christian tradition.

Lust. Too many examples to list, including towards his own daughter.

Gluttony. Donnie got two scoops of ice cream while everyone else just got one at a recent dinner, and he's well known to stuff himself with junk food. I'm fat, Trump is much fatter than me.

Greed. I don't think its necessary to even try to list examples of this.

Sloth. So far Trump has taken more vacation in his first six months of office than literally any President before him, including Bush Jr who was the previous record holder. Trump also has stated that he believes physical exercise is harmful and will kill you prematurely.

Wrath. Trump has often bragged about his wrath, he proudly boasts of seeking vengeance for any tiny slight or imagined wrong. He's well known as a mean person who throws tantrums when thwarted in his smallest desire.

Envy. In a radio interview on 9/11 Trump said that since the Twin Towers had been destroyed his building was the tallest in Manhattan (a lie), he did that on 9/11. Earlier when he was seeing a model of Trump Tower with other buildings he insisted his underlings lower the other buildings so that Trump Tower looked taller. For a man with so much he seemed to always be grasping after what is beyond his reach.

Pride. As with lust and greed, I think the examples of Trump serving as a physical avatar of pride are too numerous to list.

Pick any of the big seven and Trump is not merely guilty of it, but you'll find examples of him bragging about his sin. He is not merely guilty of all seven but comes close to being a platonic example. There is literally not one in the seven deadly sins where Trump cannot be said to exemplify it.

And the overwhelming majority of American Christians voted for him.
posted by sotonohito at 1:22 PM on September 15 [114 favorites]




Donald Trump = Being There + Forrest Gump + Mean Girls 2
posted by OverlappingElvis at 1:28 PM on September 15 [6 favorites]


*State legislature update*

Oklahoma just called a special legislative session to close the state's budget shortfall. Gov. Fallin wants them to:
--Address the immediate budget shortfall created by the loss of the $215 million cigarette fee revenue. [it was held to be unconstitutional]
--Have the option to address a long-term solution to continuing budget shortfalls.
--Address the need for more consolidation and other efficiencies in all areas of state government.
--Clarify intended exemptions to the new 1.25 percent sales tax on vehicles.
--Address a needed pay increase for K-12 public school teachers.
So, any number of bills on anything might come up during the session. The OK legislature is overwhelmingly Republican, but even the (horrible) Republican Gov. is calling for tax increases. Memail me if you live in OK and want info/talking points on specific proposals.
posted by melissasaurus at 1:29 PM on September 15 [16 favorites]


Shit like this St Louis verdict really takes the wind out of my sails. Like, fuck it, we might as well pack it up, we're done here.

Because how are we possibly going to fix this? We all know "a few bad apples" is utter bullshit, and that even otherwise good cops (for American cop values of "good") support and protect the bad ones. So we basically have to burn American city, county, and state police departments to the ground and start over with a model that actually discourages, and enforces consequences for, gunning down civilians in the street.

But then there's the legal system that has -- every time, without fail -- enabled and defended and supported the police in these cases. So we have to burn American city, county, and state judicial systems to the ground and start over with a model that actually discourages, and enforces consequences for, ignoring the rule of law when the perp is a cop.

Rooting out something this ugly and pervasive and deeply dug in is almost impossible, and to do it we'd need extensive support at the national level, like, from the Attorney General or even the President himself, and... you see where I'm going with this, I'm sure.
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 1:31 PM on September 15 [19 favorites]


Trump also has stated that he believes physical exercise is harmful and will kill you prematurely.

[real, btw, because it turns out that "a person, like a battery, is born with a finite amount of energy". Who knew?]
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 1:33 PM on September 15 [1 favorite]


What female hosts have to deal with on CNN.

"I believe in the 1st amendment and boobs"
posted by Talez at 1:33 PM on September 15 [14 favorites]


"I believe in the 1st amendment and boobs"

In case you don't know who Clay Travis is...

Clay Travis, Tucker Carlson’s go-to sports expert, is a racist conspiracy theorist, and his "credo" is "all women are sluts"

In his “satirical” book, Clay Travis instructs men to go to hospitals to hit on rape victims, “dash” a woman’s head “on the fireplace,” refer to a wife or girlfriend as a “cockmitten,” and murder a woman’s cat in front of her and feed "the carcass to your dog"
posted by chris24 at 1:39 PM on September 15 [23 favorites]


St. Louis does not have a police chief right now. Sam Dotson "retired" upon Lyda Krewson taking office as Mayor. We have interim chief Lawrence O'Toole while Mayor Lyda drags her feet on a national search. I wish we could pull Dan Isom out of retirement.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 1:40 PM on September 15 [2 favorites]


What female hosts have to deal with on CNN.

I know this is phenomenally not the point here, but we already knew Clay Travis is a gigantic asshole and nobody should be booking him, so I'll just say that whoever at CNN cut from the three boxes to the shot of just Baldwin in the studio right as she said the word "bye" deserves a giant raise for impeccable timing.
posted by zachlipton at 1:41 PM on September 15 [11 favorites]


Donald Trump = Being There + Forrest Gump + Mean Girls 2

Please leave Chauncey Gardner out of this. The similarities are superficial at best.
posted by mikelieman at 1:43 PM on September 15 [4 favorites]


Everything I listed was real, including Trump, on 9/11, getting interviewed on the radio and claiming (falsely BTW) that since the Twin Towers had been destroyed he now owned the tallest building in Manhattan. Link 1. Link 2. That was literally something he thought of and bragged about on 9/11, before the smoke had cleared, while emergency crews were still working to find survivors, Trump was on the radio talking about how his building was now the tallest in Manhattan.

Likewise, Trump has repeatedly and very creepily, lusted after Ivanka. Link 1. Link 2.

He's utterly vile in every way.
posted by sotonohito at 1:43 PM on September 15 [22 favorites]


SmallTextBrackets: ModSquad Revisited

Oh crap, is using them a problem now?

I love small text, just love it!
posted by leotrotsky at 1:47 PM on September 15 [3 favorites]


Please leave Chauncey Gardner out of this. The similarities are superficial at best.

They both like to watch.
posted by OverlappingElvis at 1:48 PM on September 15 [10 favorites]


Olivia Nuzzi provides an extremely Friday afternoon story that is of absolutely zero consequence or relevance to anyone's lives: Here’s Why Steve Bannon Wears So Many Shirts
“Never two. N-e-v-e-r t-w-o,” his spokesperson said of the exact number of shirts worn by Bannon himself at any given time. “Never one. Certainly n-e-v-e-r o-n-e. And most of the time never two. It’s usually three, he usually has three shirts on.”
No particular explanation is really provided, though the reporter does try it out for herself. The best part is the use of quotation marks after explaining that Bannon wouldn't talk on the record: "“Sources” and “friends” with “knowledge” of Bannon’s wardrobe also talked." Wink wink.
posted by zachlipton at 1:54 PM on September 15 [7 favorites]


They both like to watch.

Like I said, superficial. President Gardner was an effective leader despite his issues.
posted by mikelieman at 1:56 PM on September 15 [2 favorites]


A verdict that will cause intense civil unrest is today's exact definition of a commitment to "law and order".

No. Many good and worthy decisions have caused civil unrest. Desegregation of schools caused civil unrest. The problem with this verdict is that it's wrong.
posted by corb at 1:57 PM on September 15 [28 favorites]


Sleeping Giants:
[We noticed that many ads on Breitbart were coming] from the same place: @facebook's Audience Network. Advertisers informed us that they were never told they would a automatically opted in. 5/ They simply thought that they would show up on Facebook and that would be that. But then they didn't. 6/ And suddenly, they were showing up on Breitbart articles like "There's No Hiring Bias Against Women In Tech, They Just Suck In Interviews"7/This wasn't just risking their brand reputation, their ad dollars were, unbeknownst to them FUNDING Breitbart's content. 8/ And the only way to opt out was to turn off the entire Audience Network, which many didn't know how to do. 9/ Facebook is literally funding Breitbart by using their unsuspecting customers' ad dollars. Pretty damning and yet, not surprising. 10/ Facebook has some explaining to do. Customers need transparency and need to understand why Breitbart is even on their Audience Network 11/ as the site clearly doesn't meet their own Community Standards for hate. They also need to understand why Facebook has 12/ spent their ad dollars so carelessly without thinking the damage it would do to their brand.
Is there anything else we can do about this besides telling advertisers, "Do you realize your ads are showing up on Breitbart? Do you want to support this hate site?"
posted by cybercoitus interruptus at 1:58 PM on September 15 [44 favorites]




The AVClub says "It's Friday Afternoon -- here are some videos of sad Trump boys burning their MAGA hats". Their suggested clip made me bark out a laugh at the end.

MAGA tears are the most schadenfreudelicious of all.
posted by Lyme Drop at 2:07 PM on September 15


Trump Advisers Secretly Met With Jordan’s King While One Was Pushing A Huge Nuclear Power Deal: Michael Flynn, Jared Kushner, and Steve Bannon met with King Abdullah II

It's upthread a ways, but I want to point out that this is now the second time Steve Bannon's name has now appeared as an attendee at one of these shady meetings.

The previous time was earlier this week in this CNN article about a meeting in New York with a crown prince of the UAE:
The crown prince, Sheikh Mohammed bin Zayed al-Nahyan, arrived in New York last December in the transition period before Trump was sworn into office for a meeting with several top Trump officials, including Michael Flynn, the president's son-in-law, Jared Kushner, and his top strategist Steve Bannon, sources said.
Bannon is looking less and less like an innocent bystander.
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:08 PM on September 15 [8 favorites]


The OK legislature is overwhelmingly Republican, but even the (horrible) Republican Gov. is calling for tax increases.

The OK GOP has had no fewer than 4 sexual assault scandals just this year. Here's the latest one.

Whats in the water there ?
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 2:09 PM on September 15 [3 favorites]


Shit like this St Louis verdict really takes the wind out of my sails. Like, fuck it, we might as well pack it up, we're done here.

Well yes, but: it's only new to those of use haven't been seeing it for years. And yeah, sadly, there wouldn't even have been a trial in some years, you can almost, if you squint, call that a shitty kind of progress.

But this stuff, and worse, has always been going on. Those of us (I don't know if you're white, won't assume) who are white or otherwise sheltered, find it shocking when we see it, but those who aren't sheltered have known all along.

And plenty of folks of color who've seen far more than I ever have, get up, get out and keep fighting, every day. How can I let hopelessness overtake me just because I'm now seeing what they've always seen? I can't, right? I can't let my own sadness tempt me to check out, which is a privilege I have as a white person. Much as I often want to.

I struggle with this a lot. I hate conflict and violence and looking right in the face of hatred and marching and phone calls and all the rest. I'm slow and surly and whiny about all of it. I want to go home, and sometimes I do, but those assholes are still out there with their tiki torches, so I have to keep trying.
posted by emjaybee at 2:12 PM on September 15 [64 favorites]


What's in the water there?

Uh, oil?
posted by hanov3r at 2:13 PM on September 15 [3 favorites]


We've put out a statement requesting that the Kurds cancel their independence referendum, saying that it is "distracting" from the war on ISIS. I mean, the Kurds are mainly the ones fighting that war in Syria, but let's not let that stand in the way of making our point.
posted by zachlipton at 2:13 PM on September 15 [5 favorites]


A Judge Has Blocked New Trump Administration Rules Aimed At Sanctuary Cities
A federal judge in Chicago issued a nationwide order on Friday that temporarily blocks the US Department of Justice from requiring cities to comply with new federal grant requirements aimed at so-called sanctuary cities.

US District Judge Harry Leinenweber found that Chicago was likely to succeed in arguing that Attorney General Jeff Sessions exceeded his authority in imposing rules that require cities applying for a law enforcement grant program to notify federal agents about suspected undocumented immigrants before releasing them and to give agents access to detention facilities.
Full text of decision here [pdf].
posted by melissasaurus at 2:14 PM on September 15 [35 favorites]


Sangermaine: It really is astounding how badly the Republicans have fucked this up. They control everything yet the can't seem to accomplish anything.

Amid tension, Trump and McConnell together on judges (Joan Biskupic, CNN Legal Analyst and Supreme Court Biographer, September 5, 2017) -- warning: auto-playing video.
President Donald Trump and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell may not be on the best of terms after a failure to pass a healthcare overhaul this summer and ahead of expected fiscal fights this fall. But they have at least one shared mission: confirming a bevy of federal judges.

Their effort, along with today's relaxed filibuster rules, could give conservatives an opportunity to reshape the federal bench even more than in the 1980s when President Ronald Reagan set a modern standard for maximizing a potential judicial legacy.
Why so many? Because the Republicans intentionally held up judicial nominations with the hope that they'd take back the White House.

See also: List of federal judges appointed by Donald Trump on Wikipedia. This is the one thing that Dems can't undo when they take back power.

The one light in this dark list: there are a lot of names, but many still need to be confirmed.
posted by filthy light thief at 2:26 PM on September 15 [21 favorites]


Kurds: YOU KNOW WHAT'S DISTRACTING LET ME TELL YOU WHAT'S DISTRACTING ASSHOLE [fake]
posted by Rykey at 2:27 PM on September 15 [2 favorites]


Anyone have a copy of the judge's decision in the Anthony Lamar Smith murder?
posted by Coventry at 2:27 PM on September 15


WSJ: GOP Congressman Sought Trump Deal on WikiLeaks, Russia. Yes, of course it's Rohrabacher.
A U.S. congressman contacted the White House this week trying to broker a deal that would end WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange’s U.S. legal troubles in exchange for what he described as evidence that Russia wasn’t the source of hacked emails published by the antisecrecy website during the 2016 presidential campaign.

The proposal made by Rep. Dana Rohrabacher (R., Calif.), in a phone call Wednesday with White House Chief of Staff John Kelly, was apparently aimed at resolving the probe of WikiLeaks prompted by Mr. Assange’s publication of secret U.S. government documents in 2010 through a pardon or other act of clemency from President Donald Trump.

The possible “deal”—a term used by Mr. Rohrabacher during the Wednesday phone call—would involve a pardon of Mr. Assange or “something like that,” Mr. Rohrabacher said. In exchange, Mr. Assange would probably present a computer drive or other data-storage device that Mr. Rohrabacher said would exonerate Russia in the long-running controversy about who was the source of hacked and stolen material aimed at embarrassing the Democratic Party during the 2016 election.

“He would get nothing, obviously, if what he gave us was not proof,” Mr. Rohrabacher said.
posted by zachlipton at 2:27 PM on September 15 [23 favorites]


It's pretty astounding that we have an obvious Russian asset in the US House of Representatives operating in the open, and the rest of the House just shrugs.
posted by diogenes at 2:31 PM on September 15 [99 favorites]


Anyone have a copy of the judge's decision in the Anthony Lamar Smith murder?
posted by Coventry at 16:27 on September 15 [+] [!]


Here you go.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 2:33 PM on September 15 [3 favorites]


In what universe does making a deal with Assange to clear Russia of wrongdoing not scream collusion in flashing neon?
posted by BungaDunga at 2:34 PM on September 15 [37 favorites]


I realize this is all phenomenally stupid and none of it makes any sense, but even if we took Rohrabacher and Assange's proposal at face value, how would it even work? Assange isn't going to reveal his sources to the US Government, I guess? What evidence could he possibly present then, even if you ignore the question of proving it wasn't faked?

And if Assange is so committed to radical transparency, surely he wouldn't just be sitting on explosive evidence of crucial interest to world affairs, right? Right? That would be totally against all of his...yeah no that checks out.
posted by zachlipton at 2:35 PM on September 15 [7 favorites]


So the whole anonymous, protected part of leaking to Wikileaks goes away to help Russia and Trump?
posted by chris24 at 2:36 PM on September 15 [3 favorites]


Anyone have a copy of the judge's decision in the Anthony Lamar Smith murder?

also via NPR's full-screen document viewer in case you don't want to download it
posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 2:36 PM on September 15 [2 favorites]


@yashar
WATCH: @EagleEdMartin, who says he's @PhyllisSchlafly's handpicked successor, says POTUS can't be racist because he kisses black babies.

VIDEO

---

Nobody tell him about Thomas Jefferson.
posted by chris24 at 2:39 PM on September 15 [16 favorites]


This is the one thing that Dems can't undo when they take back power.

Maybe. The answer to all things is "it depends", right? If a dunderheaded Russian mafia/state tool barfviates his way into office with 98% illegal cash and hacked voting machines it should get called back, right?

At the very least we have to acknowledge that the Constitution allows for it. As with impeachment, it is not a criminal law-based function but a political one. Judges can be replaced. It's severe, it's drastic, but what of the Trump æon isn't?

Would DNC Dems actually do it? Oh no. But that's on us. Run smart. Democrats 2018: You Will! Be Held! Accountable!

y'know they set the car on fire already. It's not like we're playing any-dimensional chess
posted by petebest at 2:40 PM on September 15 [5 favorites]


Please leave Chauncey Gardner out of this. The similarities are superficial at best.

White man who learns everything he knows from watching television and appears to be wealthier than he actually is makes vague pronouncements that people who want to believe in him take as vision or wisdom. This man is not properly vetted and despite showing no signs of understanding or competence is somehow seen as a serious political candidate. Nothing to see here.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 2:41 PM on September 15 [13 favorites]


We've put out a statement requesting that the Kurds cancel their independence referendum, saying that it is "distracting" from the war on ISIS. I mean, the Kurds are mainly the ones fighting that war in Syria, but let's not let that stand in the way of making our point.

I mean, that reasoning is incredibly stupid and it's not like the Trump administration has any sort of moral or temporal authority to tell the Kurds much of anything, but there is a real fear that the referendum will lead to a civil war in Iraq, and because of the players here, one that could easily draw in Turkey and Iran. I'm in quite supportive of the YPG and Peshmerga in their fight against ISIS and there are plenty of good reasons to support an independent Kurdish state, but this still has a lot of potential to go really poorly really quickly.
posted by Copronymus at 2:43 PM on September 15 [2 favorites]


In President Gardner's case, however, he never promoted himself, but was rather a blank slate upon which The Establishment projected their hopes and dreams.

DJT is, in contrast, a grifter to the core.
posted by mikelieman at 2:43 PM on September 15 [5 favorites]


Yes, of course it's Rohrabacher.

evergreen
posted by lalex at 2:44 PM on September 15 [4 favorites]


It was upsetting to learn from Olivia Nuzzi's piece on Bannon's shirts that he favors the same pen as I do.
posted by slenderloris at 2:46 PM on September 15 [4 favorites]


National Treasure Alexandra Petri, WaPo: Some reviews of the first line of the first chapter of Hillary Clinton’s ‘What Happened’
“That which does not kill us makes us stronger.”
— Friedrich Nietzsche (and Kelly Clarkson)

(opening of “Showing Up,” the first chapter of “What Happened,” Hillary Clinton’s new book on the election)

This book is trying too hard.

If you rearrange the words in these sentences it doesn’t spell “Benghazi” but I think that, in and of itself, is EXTREMELY TELLING.

This font is not right.

No one would question the font that a man used to type these words, and I can’t believe that Hillary Clinton is being subjected to it.

This is just what I imagine Leslie Knope’s book would have been like. Already, it is like a cool drink of water in the wilderness, a wilderness where Clinton has been diligently fighting rogue clowns for us for the past several months. I am grateful for her every day.

I’m sorry, but after the second word I blanked out and went straight back to election night, and all I can hear is the sound of sobbing and unused confetti and balloons falling wetly from an unbroken glass ceiling onto a tear-soaked ballroom floor and nothing will ever be all right ever again.

Why isn’t this just an unprintable expletive in ALL CAPS that takes up an entire page? This doesn’t feel strong enough.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 2:49 PM on September 15 [44 favorites]


US military is not mostly rural redstaters. it is 35% rural in a nation that is 25%. Disproportionate - yes, but the meat-grinder will mostly be urban meat, suburban meat, with more rural and more minorities and sourhern than average...
but majority of americans are urban, democrat and ignored as "real americans who serve their country" so that some politicians from disproportionately white diaproportionately rural and disproportionately "parasitic" communities can pretend that they built this country all by themselves and they are the only ones who run it.
So on the topic of who will suffer in a next korea war spoiler alert: everybody, here and there, but poor and minorities worse than rich white US hawks)
posted by Anchorite_of_Palgrave at 2:54 PM on September 15 [19 favorites]


In what universe does making a deal with Assange to clear Russia of wrongdoing not scream collusion in flashing neon?

It's freaking crazy. It's like the getaway driver using the the mob boss to try and clear the stickup man. And all three of them are claiming they had nothing to do with the robbery.
posted by diogenes at 2:55 PM on September 15 [8 favorites]


The New Yorker has posted a brief Q&A with Evan Osnos about his recent piece on North Korea. It's super fascinating, and not as grim as I was expecting.

The video is also pretty good, and contains a note that KJU and DJT have only seven combined years of political experience. Emphasizing the ultimate cluelessness in charge (of the fate of the world). Also the political purposes of KJU's haircut and weight gain. And his love of basketball eventually leading him to invite Dennis Rodman to spend a week with him at the beach.
posted by witchen at 3:00 PM on September 15 [7 favorites]




AP Still no charity money from leftover Trump inaugural funds
President Donald Trump’s inaugural committee raised an unprecedented $107 million for a ceremony that officials promised would be “workmanlike,” and the committee pledged to give leftover funds to charity. Nearly eight months later, the group has helped pay for redecorating at the White House and the vice president’s residence in Washington.

But nothing has yet gone to charity.
One way they spent money was on the pre-inaugural Lincoln Memorial concert, $25 million, which was an outrageously high price tag.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:16 PM on September 15 [21 favorites]


Redundant clothing is a sign of schizophrenia. Apparently even Shakespeare knew it.

Comments in Nuzzi's article also suggest that... uh... alcoholism might have something to do with it.
posted by klanawa at 3:18 PM on September 15 [10 favorites]


It's interesting to me that the WSJ article is basically serving as part of the plot here. If Kelly took Rohrabacher's call and pass blocked the message, Rohrabacher still wants to get it directly to Trump. Since Rohrabacher obviously doesn't mind publicly looking like a Russian operative——that ship sailed a long time ago——, what better way to pass the message on than the front page of the Wall Street Journal?

Doing this publicly is madness, but it's apparently worthwhile to him as long as Trump hears about the deal. And if Trump hears about it, how is he going to pass up anything labeled "proof Russia didn't hack the election?" Even if it amounts to nothing, it still serves a useful purpose by spreading more FUD about how there was no Russian involvement.
posted by zachlipton at 3:23 PM on September 15 [16 favorites]


From that zombieflanders link:
“We pride ourselves in honoring and protecting our Proud Confederate Heritage as well as our Confederate Monuments and Cemeteries to honor our past heros (sic) and not let their memory fade away as is being done by a lot of our government officials today,” the CSAII Commanding General wrote on Facebook. “CSA II® will continue to honor our heros (sic) memory by protecting our monuments to their memory at all cost and assisting our fellow members of the Heritage ~ Not Hate Movement to stop the oppressive tactics done by these above mentioned hate groups and government officials.”
Will someone please tell me why they take so much pride in in their "Confederate Heritage"? I mean really, what in hell do they have to be proud of?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:26 PM on September 15 [16 favorites]


Justice Department ends program scrutinizing local police forces
The changes were announced by the department’s Office of Community Oriented Policing Services, or COPS, which is halting a years-long effort begun in the previous administration to investigate and publicize the shortcomings of police departments.

Police hear Jeff Sessions loud and clear, it's open season, there will be no oversight.
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:27 PM on September 15 [66 favorites]


it's not like the Trump administration has any sort of moral or temporal authority to tell the Kurds much of anything

Last month Samantha Bee went to Iraqi Kurdistan and found herself doing her First (And Probably Last Ever) Trump-Positive Field Piece, evidently due to approbation of U.S. assistance to the Kurds in Northern Syria? (See also—Meet The Badass Peshmerga Women)
posted by XMLicious at 3:41 PM on September 15 [2 favorites]


‘I hope nobody loses their lives’: Armed neo-Confederates descend on Virginia to defend statue ‘at all costs’

Aside from the threats and all the other obvious and horrible stuff... that photo literally made my eyes bleed.
posted by Hairy Lobster at 3:44 PM on September 15 [5 favorites]


I'm nobody to fashion judge, but I do wonder of the woman wearing spandex confederate flag clothes. She couldn't find a matching confederate top and a matching confederate bottom? I mean come on.
posted by angrycat at 3:59 PM on September 15 [3 favorites]


Looks like Confederates aren't quite as uptight as Americans about desecrating their flag.
posted by kirkaracha at 4:00 PM on September 15 [4 favorites]


Will someone please tell me why they take so much pride in in their "Confederate Heritage"? I mean really, what in hell do they have to be proud of?

Lost Cause of the Confederacy does a pretty good job of explaining it.
posted by Brak at 4:01 PM on September 15 [5 favorites]


I'm nobody to fashion judge, but I do wonder of the woman wearing spandex confederate flag clothes. She couldn't find a matching confederate top and a matching confederate bottom? I mean come on.

90% of the people who I see on the side of white supremacy would have been killed as an untermensch.

I wish these people would realize that.
posted by Talez at 4:03 PM on September 15 [13 favorites]


I got your "Proud Confederate Heritage" right here [caution: disturbing images].
posted by kirkaracha at 4:05 PM on September 15 [2 favorites]


WSJ: Facebook Gave Special Counsel Robert Mueller More Details on Russian Ad Buys Than Congress
Facebook Inc. has handed over to special counsel Robert Mueller detailed records about the Russian ad purchases on its platform that go beyond what it shared with Congress last week, according to people familiar with the matter.
The information Facebook shared with Mr. Mueller included copies of the ads and details about the accounts that bought them and the targeting criteria they used, the people familiar with the matter said. Facebook policy dictates that it would only turn over “the stored contents of any account,” including messages and location information, in response to a search warrant, some of them said.
A search warrant from Mr. Mueller would mean the special counsel now has a powerful tool in his arsenal to probe the details of how social media was used as part of a campaign of Russian meddling in the U.S. presidential election. Facebook hasn’t shared the same information with Congress in part because of concerns about disrupting the Mueller probe, and possibly running afoul of U.S. privacy laws, people familiar with the matter said.
A Facebook spokesman said the company continues to investigate and is cooperating with U.S. authorities. A spokesman for Mr. Mueller declined to comment on the investigation.
posted by rewil at 4:19 PM on September 15 [31 favorites]


I was hoping for another Futurama quote as the post title.

You're less popular than Sargent Feces Processor!
posted by adept256 at 4:20 PM on September 15 [3 favorites]


I can't wait for Ben Shapiro's guest appearance on the next season of Handmaid's Tale. (fake).
posted by rc3spencer at 4:29 PM on September 15 [1 favorite]


that photo literally made my eyes bleed.

Wow. Ah. Huh. More so than any of Il Toupée's misadventures, I am at a loss.
*fricative sigh*
posted by petebest at 4:39 PM on September 15 [1 favorite]


The Hill: Senators Propose 9/11-style Commission on Russian Interference
Sens. Kirsten Gillibrand (D-N.Y.) and Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) announced legislation on Friday to establish the National Commission on Cybersecurity of U.S. Election Systems to study the election-related cyberattacks — which the intelligence community has attributed to Russia — and make recommendations on how to guard against such activity going forward.{...}

Both Gillibrand and Graham said the commission is urgently needed to prevent foreign threats in the 2018 midterm elections.

“We need a public accounting of how [the Russians] were able to do it so effectively, and how we can protect our country when Russia or any other nation tries to attack us again,” Gillibrand said. “The clock is ticking before our next election, and these questions are urgent.”

Graham said the issue goes “beyond partisan politics” and “strikes at the heart” of American democracy.
No response from the Trump Administration yet, as far as I can tell, but the announcement coincides, accidentally or not, with tomorrow's March to Protect American Democracy outside the White House.
posted by Doktor Zed at 4:40 PM on September 15 [19 favorites]


Celebrity President is the worst reality show ever.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 4:43 PM on September 15 [18 favorites]


Mueller's spokesperson must have a really boring job. "No comment."
posted by lumnar at 4:46 PM on September 15 [7 favorites]


CNN:Trump withholds almost all Mar-a-Lago visitor's logs

Also, not sure if it was ever mentioned in the last thread, but Spicer joins Lewandowski as a Harvard Fellow.
posted by orange ball at 5:03 PM on September 15 [7 favorites]


I was hoping for another Futurama quote as the post title.

I was going to go with "I'm sick of you people! You're nothing but a pack of fickle mushheads!" from the snake-smashing day episode of the simpsons.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 5:05 PM on September 15 [4 favorites]


I mean really, what in hell do they have to be proud of?

Does this really need explanation? I'll be blunt: Not bein' nigras, nor nigra-lovers.

90% of the people who I see on the side of white supremacy would have been killed as an untermensch. I wish these people would realize that.

People (not to knock on you specifically) keep saying things like this, but American white supremacy owes little to Nazi Aryan folk-ideology (and in fact Nazi Germany's racial policies owe something to Jim Crow). Just keep in mind that the Nazis' greatest allies were swarthy Italians, half-Mongol Russians, and the Japanese. Each era, and people, creates the racial supremacy that it thinks it needs.

And the current one is recognizable thanks to endless discussion over the last couple. (Frankly, that article, and the book on which it draws, assert that knowledge of their untermenschen-ness is partly at the root of the American definition of whiteness.) After all, when asked, it's not like Americans actually are willing to say they back Nazism or even neo-Confederate white supremacy, the real problem is what they don't acknowledge as the same thing, like the St. Louis verdict.

I do see that there is likely an underpinning to your point, e.g. that a specific racial classification regime could easily ensnare those who advocate one generically, but that's really more of a leopards-eating-faces blindness and not really a useful observation. Of course they believe that they will be the ones controlling whose faces the leopards eat, that's the whole point.

There's also the longstanding folk wisdom that if fascism comes to America it will "come wrapped in the American flag", but of course we already know that when the KKK reached its zenith as a movement in the 1920s they did not march as lost-causers but as patriots. And one might also, and as effectively, point out that racism isn't Christian: at least here there is a value in using the remaining power of the pulpit to push back where it may make a difference, but it hasn't stopped supremacists from incorporating Christian symbolism into their movements.
posted by dhartung at 6:12 PM on September 15 [22 favorites]


I was hoping for another Futurama quote as the post title

It's possible I'm missing the joke here, but the post title is a Futurama quote.
posted by tau_ceti at 6:13 PM on September 15 [1 favorite]


I believe it was I was hoping for another Futurama quote, i.e. a different specific example, which followed.
posted by dhartung at 6:19 PM on September 15 [2 favorites]


Sabrina Taverise, in NYT Sunday Review: When History’s Losers Write the Story
In the United States, the Civil War remains “the most divisive and unresolved experience Americans have ever had,” according to David Blight, a historian at Yale. “The Civil War is like a sleeping dragon. If you poke it hard enough, it will raise its head and breathe fire.”

That is, in part, because the loser was allowed its own interpretation. The South, facing catastrophic loss of life and mass destruction on a European scale, wrote its own history of the war. It cast itself as an underdog overwhelmed by the North’s superior numbers, but whose cause — a noble fight for states’ rights — was just. The North looked the other way. Northern elites were more interested in re-establishing economic ties than in keeping their commitments to blacks’ constitutional rights. The political will to complete Reconstruction died.
Of course, the problem with this interpretation is the assumption that the Confederacy was the loser. It wasn't, and it hasn't lost, and Donald Trump is its president.
posted by runcifex at 6:23 PM on September 15 [20 favorites]


It's like some Confederacy of Dimwits or something.
posted by petebest at 6:32 PM on September 15 [11 favorites]


Comments in Nuzzi's article also suggest that... uh... alcoholism might have something to do with it.

So when he burp-barfs his morning liter of whiskey down his front, he has a spare shirt on underneath?
posted by Squeak Attack at 6:44 PM on September 15 [2 favorites]


There's also the longstanding folk wisdom that if fascism comes to America it will "come wrapped in the American flag"

Who knew they'd be taking the flag wrapping quite so literally...
posted by Hairy Lobster at 6:47 PM on September 15 [2 favorites]


can we in general chill on the alcoholism jokes?
posted by lalex at 6:49 PM on September 15 [15 favorites]


It's pretty astounding that we have an obvious Russian asset in the US House of Representatives operating in the open, and the rest of the House just shrugs.

We got one in the White House, too
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:54 PM on September 15 [6 favorites]


In a rousing example of bipartisanship, Tim Kaine and Lamar Alexander open the Bristol Rhythm & Roots Reunion as "The Amateurs".
posted by kimdog at 6:56 PM on September 15 [1 favorite]


Just keep in mind that the Nazis' greatest allies were swarthy Italians, half-Mongol Russians, and the Japanese. Each era, and people, creates the racial supremacy that it thinks it needs.

While it is true that these alliances existed, it does not imply that they thought of their allies as equal to them in racial terms. Those were temporary alliances at best.
posted by Hairy Lobster at 6:57 PM on September 15 [5 favorites]


History channel orders six-episode miniseries of Clinton impeachment Taegan Goddard, PoliticalWire

“The series will be based on the book The Breach: Inside the Impeachment and Trial of William Jefferson Clinton by Peter Baker. The series begins with the revelation that President Clinton was having an affair with White House intern Monica Lewinsky and continues through the political combat that saw Hillary Clinton, Newt Gingrich, Prosecutor Ken Starr, Congressman Bob Livingston and many others dominating the national headlines.”

*dials 2017 writers' room*
posted by petebest at 7:18 PM on September 15 [7 favorites]


STL update: protesting in the Central West End now. Nothing widespread. Police posting mostly self-congratulatory stuff on Twitter about their (own) "restraint". I live in the city, but not really near any of these things, so nothing happening here except laundry, snoozing dogs, and backyard beers.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 7:22 PM on September 15 [4 favorites]


Did Jared Kushner's Data Operation Help Select Facebook Targets For the Russians?

I've been saying all along this is where the collusion happened. The Russians had help. Someone fed them voter targeting information to the precinct level. It was Jared Kushner and unknown others on the data team. Every top member of the Trump campaign was aware of it. Every member of Republican leadership was also aware or willfully blind.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:36 PM on September 15 [65 favorites]


BTW the Central West End is a posh neighborhood bordered by Forest Park on the west and the Delmar Divide on the north and the BJC complex on the south and far midtown on the east. Was one of the OG gayborhoods in the late 70s to mid 80s and a Gen-X hangout in the 90s (rip The Grind, Daily Planet) but has largely been sanitized and replaced by a lot of money. It's kind of approaching the Disneyland version of city living.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 7:40 PM on September 15 [2 favorites]


You have now subscribed to St Louis facts. You will now receive intermittent STL facts from a resident derailing a politics thread.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 7:47 PM on September 15 [60 favorites]


Ta-Nehisi Coates lays it out straight to Chris Hayes [video]:
If you own a business that attempts to keep black people from renting from you, if you are reported to say that you don't want black people counting your money, if you say, not even reported, just come out and say someone can't judge your case because you're Mexican, if your response to the first black President is that they weren't born in this country despite all proof, if you say they weren't smart enough to go to Harvard Law School and demand to see their grades, if that's the essence of your entire political identity, you might be a white supremacist. it's just possible. I mean I'm willing to have that debate and hear the other side, but you might be.

I think with Donald Trump...I wouldn't say George Bush is a white supremacist. Now I have a lot of problems with gb's polices. I can make an argument for how they effect black people in a negative way, you know what I mean. But I wouldn't argue that he's a white supremacist. I wouldn't argue that Mitt Romney is a white supremacist. Donald Trump is a particular specific thing, and I think there's quite a bit of evidence to back up the charge
posted by zachlipton at 7:57 PM on September 15 [165 favorites]


I was Borg-assimilated to the United States as a 5-year-old in St. Louis, and the racism/sexism/classism ran so deep that it took me until my very late 20s to shake it off enough to leave. It is sadly no surprise what is happening there today, as it is what has been happening there every day since...well, God only knows. America's hatred of the other...which is just a projection of the hatred of the Self...finds itself almost perfectly expressed in St. Louis, MO. Thank God I got out, I pray for those still there, and Let's Go Blues (the propaganda runs deep)!
posted by riverlife at 7:58 PM on September 15 [5 favorites]


I spent three years in St. Louis and it's by far the most racist place I've been to in the US. The racist overtone to every conversation was obvious and aberrant to me from the beginning, and I grew up in Kentucky. It's worse there, by a lot.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:01 PM on September 15 [9 favorites]



I spent three years in St. Louis and it's by far the most racist place I've been to in the US.


Classist and provincial, too. Good god do I have a repository of words on this.

That said, I actually do love living here. In conclusion, I am a woman of contrasts.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 8:20 PM on September 15 [23 favorites]


Random experience of the day: coming home from a work trip, I shared a shuttle ride with an older white guy, who I recognized as the rather rude man who pushed his way through the plane while everyone was trying to deplane. Beyond that, I didn't think about him, until he turned to me and shared his experience from the flight: he, a Republican who generally doesn't share his political views with strangers, was asked by the lady sitting next to him about his political affiliation. When he said he was a Republican, she apparently unloaded on him, about how great "that crooked Hillary" is, and how Obama was the best president ever. "So I called her an ignorant cunt" -- that's not an exact quote, but he did say he called her "cunt."

I was floored. Absolutely floored. Up to then, I was nodding along, because we would be off the shuttle in a few minutes, and I'd never see him again. But him telling me casually, if not a bit proudly, that he called a stranger "cunt" broke me from complacency. "I cannot abide that," I told him, which actually gave him pause. He tried to defend himself, even saying "she started it," to which I said "I know it can be hard, but you can't fall to that level," which wasn't what I was thinking. I would have preferred to shout "YOU IDIOT, SHE'S MORE RIGHT THAN YOU!" but I didn't. Instead I told him I was more likely to side with her viewpoints than his, again trying to remain calm. Then he said "she said that those men in Benghazi deserved to die, and that was too much for me." But I kept pushing back, telling him I cannot abide by that language, and that by responding with anger to anger doesn't solve anything.

So he apologized to me, and said he was sorry for the way he had acted. This gave me pause, but I told him I wish he had apologized to her. We parted ways fairly cordially, and I don't think I changed his mind one iota, but I was kind of on a rush. There was another guy in the shuttle, a 30-something white dude, who said nothing the whole time. When the Republican got off the shuttle, the other guy asked me if I knew him, and I said I didn't. We shook our heads at the exchange, which might have offended the shuttle driver, who was also an older, white male, but I tipped him and was cordial and thankful to him.

All of this is to say thank you to all you MeFites who do way more than this to stand up to sexist, racist, angry relatives, co-workers and strangers, who attend rallies and are willing to go to jail to stand up for what you believe. I can say that you all inspired me today, but more than that, today punched another hole in my shell of white, male privilege. This guy thought he could commiserate with a fellow white man about some uppity lady, and all I got was an awkward exchange. Other people deal with direct attacks, or push back against much larger forces.

Thank you all.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:38 PM on September 15 [149 favorites]


ESPN Public Editor (@ESPNPublicEd): The reason so many think Trump is a white supremacist is because of many things that have been reported by the media. Let the facts speak.

...

...

...

Yeah, I got nothin'.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:59 PM on September 15 [11 favorites]


Here we all were thinking Liz Spayd was bad, and there was an even worse public editor we'd never even heard of right there under our noses.
posted by zachlipton at 9:02 PM on September 15 [4 favorites]


Oh god, he's hold my beer-ing his own statements.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 9:03 PM on September 15 [7 favorites]


I've been saying all along this is where the collusion happened. The Russians had help.
Yes, absolutely. Several months ago I posted here on the blue that I felt very strongly about collusion because of an intellectual exercise I played--could I figure out who to target and how to target them if I wanted to influence Russia's elections just by reading internet sources? The answer is no, no I couldn't. I could get some very good ideas about how to hurt Putin, but in order to accurately time information releases, figure out who to target, determine what would tug on Russian heartstrings... I would need Russians to help me with that.
posted by xyzzy at 9:06 PM on September 15 [3 favorites]


> Oh god, he's hold my beer-ing his own statements.

Yeah, and he has a sad about the ordeal over on his personal Twitter. Damned people expecting a public editor of a major media outlet to understand what the media does, or at the very least, to refrain from tweeting about politics when said media outlet just tried to kick someone off the air for tweeting about politics.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:09 PM on September 15 [2 favorites]


I too have thought the Russians must have had American help. The election interference was a marketing campaign, and anyone who has successfully done business in a foreign country should know that it is impossible to effectively run a marketing campaign without local help. Heck anyone who has tried to learn the idioms of a second language should knows this.
posted by wobumingbai at 9:13 PM on September 15 [9 favorites]


Here we all were thinking Liz Spayd was bad, and there was an even worse public editor we'd never even heard of right there under our noses.

@nycsouthpaw: Imagine being so comfortable and fortunate that, to you, the Q of whether the president is a practicing racist doesn't need to be resolved.
posted by lalex at 9:17 PM on September 15 [36 favorites]


ESPN is in the impossible position of most of their employees and on-air talent being members of the liberal reality based community, while most of their audience is Trumpian NFL fans that hate Colin Kapernick and the only other channel they watch is FOX News, while their corporate parent is Disney that won't even allow acknowledgment that politics exists.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:37 PM on September 15 [32 favorites]


The endgame is when Jemele and Keith are put in as co-anchors of Sports Center, and the Rethuglicans understand they're going up against the Mouse, and Mickey has Yoda and Captain America backing him up... Nevermind Mary Poppins!
posted by Slap*Happy at 9:52 PM on September 15 [2 favorites]


I guess the controversy is that people who hate restrictions on speech (Happy Holidays!) are offended by pointing out that a confessed adulterer and pussy-grabber and liar is also a bigot ?

When you pile the irony deep enough, it becomes bullshit.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 10:02 PM on September 15 [9 favorites]




ELECTIONS NEWS

** 2018 Senate -- Dems still working beat the odds and get 51 seats. [Politco]

** 2018 House -- TPM: House GOP Worries About ‘Mass Exodus’ Of Frustrated Members

** AL senate special -- New VSC poll has Moore lead down to 41-40. Most other polls have been more like 10 points, though. Also, Senate Leadership PAC dumping yet more ad $$$ in for Strange.

** Odds & ends:
-- Some early YouGov polling for the 2018 CA gov race has Lt Gov Newsom at 26, GOP biz guy Cox at 11, and former LA mayor Villaraigosa at 10. CA has a top 2 second round, meaning that if both finalists are Dems, it will likely result in less GOP voter interest and benefit Dems in other races as well.

-- If NJ Sen Menendez ends up out of the Senate after his corruption trial, NJ voters strongly support (68%) the incoming governor naming his successor, rather than Christie. [WP]

-- Interesting map of state level Trump approval ratings.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:48 PM on September 15 [33 favorites]


They're burning their maga hats now.

I think that what annoys me the most is that this kid is wearing a RHCP shirt. It's like when Paul Ryan said he's a big fan of Rage Against The Machine. Yes, the music is cool and funky, but you just ignored the words. Songs have meaning and you should burn your RHCP shirt too because you don't believe in that either.
posted by adept256 at 12:01 AM on September 16 [6 favorites]


also that dumbass is going to burn down his parent's house
posted by adept256 at 12:03 AM on September 16 [6 favorites]


Are there any good public editors? Or only pouting Trump apologists who now advise Facebook PR and hyper-defensive white men?
posted by SakuraK at 12:11 AM on September 16 [1 favorite]


It's like when Paul Ryan said he's a big fan of Rage Against The Machine.

I don't even understand the timeline we're in anymore.
posted by Brak at 12:16 AM on September 16 [11 favorites]


After terror attack in London, Donald Trump provides much leaded leadership to Theresa May (Must be proactive!)

But the buried story that the mainstream media doesn't want you to know, Trump finally reveals his secret plan to defeat ISIS; Use the internet better.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 12:18 AM on September 16 [1 favorite]


adept256: I think that what annoys me the most is that this kid is wearing a RHCP shirt.

At first read I mentally transposed the letters and thought he was wearing a Rocky Horror Picture Show shirt, which yes, would have been confusing.
posted by Superplin at 12:19 AM on September 16 [8 favorites]


It's Red Hot Chilli Peppers. But I understand that Under The Bridge is about a homeless person overdosing on drugs under a bridge, but he's not homeless, the city is his home. It's his only friend. Songs have meaning. That's a powerful message and how damn tone deaf are you not to understand?
posted by adept256 at 12:25 AM on September 16 [3 favorites]


So, strap on your tin foil hats, and stay with me for a minute...

There is a company called the NSO Group. ( https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&q=nso+group&oq=nso+group ) They call themselves cyberarms dealers. Others call them black hats who sell exploits to governments. It is rumored that this group's software is responsible for a number of activist deaths.

Francisco Partners is a VC company. They own controlling interest of NSO. In 2014, they bought NSO Group for 130 million dollars. They are currently shopping it around for 1 billion dollars. https://www.google.com/search?q=nso+group+value

What else is Francisco doing? Slurping up American medical data companies like they're the last creme puffs at a tea party. What do all those companies have in common? Billions and billions of lines of PHI; which includes things like names, social security numbers, diagnosis, tests, conditions, etc. If you have seen a doctor in the last two years, your data has gone through a Francisco server.

And ya know who was working with nso and Francisco? Mike Flynn. At the same time as he was cozying up to Putin and Turkey.

What do those lines of red thread mean? I don't know, but something feels wonky about Flynn being anywhere near that much personal data about every American with access to healthcare.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 12:25 AM on September 16 [51 favorites]


I am kind of developing a grudging sort of respect for Mike Flynn.

Sure he's a crackpot with terrible ideas about geopolitics and ethics that are so debased he got bounced from the Trump administration but I can't find time in my life to participate in even a single shadowy conspiracy -- how the hell can he be centrally linked in so many of them? That's some serious work ethic..
posted by Nerd of the North at 12:43 AM on September 16 [33 favorites]


Speaking of crackpots, Carter Page Sues Over Yahoo Story On Russia Contacts, Citing Death Threats. The eyebrow raising part is that the complaint is over 400 pages long, includes pictures of Hillary Clinton with media executives as proof of something, and he is representing himself:
Asked Friday for comment on the suit and why he chose to represent himself, Page sent TPM a lengthy statement quoting George Washington and citing the Constitution. He said he has “done a tremendous amount of legal work” during his career, including as legal officer on his Navy ship and as general counsel for his energy consulting firm.
I think Carter Page is genuinely unwell.
posted by peeedro at 12:55 AM on September 16 [40 favorites]


Mr. Assange would probably present a computer drive or other data-storage device that Mr. Rohrabacher said would exonerate Russia in the long-running controversy about who was the source of hacked and stolen material aimed at embarrassing the Democratic Party during the 2016 election.

at this point it doesn't matter. trump et al is dog shit shoved into our mouths. when your mouth is full of dog shit, who the fuck cares if it was produced by fido or scoobydoo. you just want the dog shit out of your mouth.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 1:34 AM on September 16 [3 favorites]


Sure he's a crackpot with terrible ideas about geopolitics and ethics that are so debased he got bounced from the Trump administration

Flynn was National Security Advisor in our living memory, meaning 3 months ago, and he was forced to retroactively register as a foreign agent of the Turkish government. (That means spy). He is under pressure to register as a foreign of the Ukraine and of Russia (that means spy and again spy). And that's just what was easily undercovered.

Flynn was Director of National Intelligence under Obama and he was fired. Why? Well, Obama doesn't have logorrhea like Trump does, but I'm guessing it was because Flynn violated his oath to serve and protect (spy).

Worse yet, Flynn is the US Army General who led Trump's red-meat American rallies against Hillary Clinton. "Lock her up,” he chanted, and Trump is still feeding that meat to his sick base. If you have a sudden attack of empathy, have it for those who live under the regime that Flynn and his foreign conspirators chose for us: Trump is king, women must be deferential or he will call for us to be locked up. Don't believe me? Then defend Jemele Hill against Trump's multiple demands that she be fired for speaking the obvious truth that he is a white supremacist.
posted by SakuraK at 1:42 AM on September 16 [20 favorites]


Obama doesn't have logorrhea like Trump

My wife, whose discipline is medical, explains it's a 'flow of words'. Like diarrhea? I asked.

Yes, like that. She said without humour.
posted by adept256 at 1:50 AM on September 16 [16 favorites]


My wife, whose discipline is medical, explains it's a 'flow of words'. Like diarrhea? I asked.

Yes, like that. She said without humour.
posted by adept256


Dead from puns. Credit your wife for the kill.
posted by SakuraK at 2:15 AM on September 16 [7 favorites]


I certainly wouldn't want to burn a MAGA hat.

Who knows what sort of chemicals are in those things? Probably best to avoid skin contact, too.
posted by ckape at 2:17 AM on September 16 [4 favorites]


I think Carter Page is genuinely unwell.

Sure, but him defending himself in court is going to be wildly entertaining evey by Trumpian standards. And certainly funnier than the rest of it.
posted by msalt at 3:14 AM on September 16 [5 favorites]


It's like when Paul Ryan said he's a big fan of Rage Against The Machine.

I don't even understand the timeline we're in anymore.


On the one hand, sure, anyone who's listened to a single word of a RATM song (beyond "Fuck you I won't do what you tell me") is extremely confused by that.

On the other hand, the one Rage show I went to was the single most violent show I've ever seen, and I grew up in punk clubs and have been to a LOT of shows of all kinds. The Rage pit was full of frat boy mooks literally hunting POC down and beating the shit out of them right in front of me. So...yeah. A lot of angry idiot white boys never listened to the words or paid the first attention to ANYTHING about the band.
posted by threeturtles at 3:29 AM on September 16 [5 favorites]


I liked their first album, but was too turned off by their fanbase by the time their second album came out. I was in my late teens when Rage seemed to peak in my mid-size midwest town with the release of the aforementioned second album. The people who liked them seemed to be the same people who enjoyed imitating Cartman in order to get away with saying racist shit about Jewish people ironically. A couple of them matured, but a fair number are Trump voters today. One is even a Trump voting Tea Party activist rodeo rider now.
posted by bootlegpop at 3:42 AM on September 16 [2 favorites]


Strong, strong words from new rules Tonight
posted by growabrain at 4:22 AM on September 16 [4 favorites]


One is even a Trump voting Tea Party activist rodeo rider now.


Who whoa WHOA.

What now?
posted by wenestvedt at 5:13 AM on September 16 [2 favorites]


Update on that weird story about the mysterious sonic deafening incidents in Cuba. If Maddow wasn't invested in the story it would sound like an Art Bell show. Here is video from last night's show, including a Maddow interview with AP reporter Jowh Lederman. No transcript, but this is the AP story on which her report is based. transcript. Main points:

- Raul Castro summed the top US diplomat to meet in Cuba to discuss the incidents. This is a Big Deal.
- Castro is "baffled" by incidents
- US officials "taken aback" by Castro's attitude
- Castro invited the FBI to come to Havana and imvestigate
- US did send agents; it's unclear what their status is now
- Cuban government allegedly sent a diplomatic note to the State Dept offering help and resources. They did not hear back from the State Dept.
- 21 medically-confirmed cases of symptoms including hearing loss and traumatic brain injury
- This new reporting:
WASHINGTON (AP) — The blaring, grinding noise jolted the American diplomat from his bed in a Havana hotel. He moved just a few feet, and there was silence. He climbed back into bed. Inexplicably, the agonizing sound hit him again. It was as if he’d walked through some invisible wall cutting straight through his room.

Soon came the hearing loss, and the speech problems, symptoms both similar and altogether different from others among at least 21 U.S. victims in an astonishing international mystery still unfolding in Cuba. The top U.S. diplomat has called them “health attacks.” New details learned by The Associated Press indicate at least some of the incidents were confined to specific rooms or even parts of rooms with laser-like specificity, baffling U.S. officials who say the facts and the physics don’t add up.
(AP reporting by Josh Lederman, Michael Weissenstein, and Matthew Lee)
posted by Room 641-A at 6:23 AM on September 16 [58 favorites]


You know what is even more mysterious? Cuba has universal health care. How did it happen? Nobody seems to know. It's a mystery.
posted by adept256 at 6:27 AM on September 16 [7 favorites]


Castro is "baffled" by incidents... US officials "taken aback" by Castro's attitude... Castro invited the FBI to come to Havana and investigate

Hey, doesn't have to be the Cubans. Maybe polonium is getting a little expensive lately.
posted by Behemoth at 6:32 AM on September 16 [5 favorites]


History channel orders six-episode miniseries of Clinton impeachment Taegan Goddard, PoliticalWire

And then there's the docudrama Chappaquiddick to be released into cinemas in December. Since there doesn't seem to be any upcoming TV or film devoted to Watergate, it almost looks like Hollywood is concentrating on Democrats' scandals while there's currently a real-life Republican one in the White House that makes the past ones look like peanuts.
posted by Doktor Zed at 6:34 AM on September 16 [19 favorites]


"Since there doesn't seem to be any upcoming TV or film devoted to Watergate"

Mark Felt: The Man Who Brought Down the White House
posted by Omon Ra at 6:55 AM on September 16 [5 favorites]


Thanks for that, Omon - if I can't Google up a Liam Neeson-starring Mark Felt movie that's coming out in two weeks, I need more coffee. Interestingly, though, that film's cast doesn't appear to have Nixon among its roles, though it does have a lot of other implicated White House staff.
posted by Doktor Zed at 7:08 AM on September 16 [1 favorite]


Hey, doesn't have to be the Cubans. Maybe polonium is getting a little expensive lately.

I believe the thinking has been that the Cuban Government is not involved. To me, asking the US for help confirms this. If Cuba is worried about this, that's bad.

This makes me miss the good old Art Bell days, when conspiracies were more about invisible flying rods and that guy with the bottomless pit in his backyard and less about Seekrit Pedo Pizza. But not that one guy who claimed to be the Messiah. He was scary.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:12 AM on September 16 [7 favorites]


Former federal prosecutor.

@renato_mariotti
THREAD: Why news that Mueller obtained a search warrant for Facebook content may be the biggest news in the case since the Manafort raid.
1/ Last night, the @WSJ reported that Mueller obtained info from Facebook via search warrant: Facebook Gave Special Counsel Robert Mueller More Details on Russian Ad Buys Than Congress
2/ The @WSJ talks about some of the info Mueller obtained (see below). Mueller could not obtain *content* of an account without a warrant. [screenshot]
3/ I was initially wary about discussing implications of this story because I worried @WSJ may have presumed a warrant that didn't exist.
4/ But @CNN has confirmed that Mueller obtained content via search warrant, including ads, acct details, targeting. Facebook handed Russia-linked ads over to Mueller under search warrant
5/ That is huge news. It means that Mueller has concluded that specific foreign individuals committed a crime by making a "contribution"
6/ in connection with an election. It also means that he has evidence of that crime that convinced a federal magistrate judge of two things.
7/ First, that there was good reason to believe that the foreign individual committed the crime. Second, that evidence of the crime existed
8/ on Facebook. Why is that big news? Until now, Mueller's efforts to obtain information about Russian interference in the election could
9/ be seen as an effort to gain counterintelligence or to investigate a matter unlikely to result in charges. Now we know he believes that
10/ he's close to charging specific foreign people with a crime. Can he do that? Yes, if they committed a crime in the U.S.
11/ For example, my former boss indicted Osama Bin Laden for the first World Trade Center bombing.
12/ So what does this mean for Trump and his associates? This news also has large implications for them.
13/ It is a crime to know that a crime is taking place and to help it succeed. That's aiding and abetting. If any Trump associate knew about
14/ the foreign contributions that Mueller's search warrant focused on and helped that effort in a tangible way, they could be charged.
15/ In addition, anyone who agreed to be part of this effort in any way could be charged with criminal conspiracy. They wouldn't need to
16/ be involved in the whole operation or know everyone involved but they would have to agree to be part of some piece of it.
17/ One thing I should note is that this particular violation of the law preventing foreign contributions in connection with an election
18/ is far stronger than earlier speculation that Donald Trump Jr. violated the same law by accepting information from the Russian attorney.
19/ One hurdle is that to violate the statute criminally, you have to do so knowingly and willfully. Here, Mueller has evidence that the
20/ foreigner(s) had that intent, and it is far more difficult for an American to claim that he/she didn't know that a massive Russian
21/ influence operation was against the law than it would be to claim that about hearing talk at a meeting. Jurors would be inclined to
22/ convict anyone who was part of or aided a Russian effort to subvert our election.
23/ If I represented someone who was caught up in this part of the investigation, I'd be very worried. /end
ADDENDUM: In case you're curious, here's the statute I discuss in this thread: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/52/30121
posted by chris24 at 7:18 AM on September 16 [83 favorites]


Justice Department ends program scrutinizing local police forces
The changes were announced by the department’s Office of Community Oriented Policing Services, or COPS, which is halting a years-long effort begun in the previous administration to investigate and publicize the shortcomings of police departments.


This is the sort of thing which can be militated against, if the Dems say loudly and clearly that this programme will be reinstated, double-strength, the moment they get back in. Labour did this against various Tory privatisation plans when in opposition in the 90s, I seem to remember, saying that any contracts made would be cancelled, and it had the desired chilling effect.
posted by Devonian at 7:24 AM on September 16 [30 favorites]


This is the sort of thing which can be militated against, if the Dems say loudly and clearly that this programme will be reinstated, double-strength, the moment they get back in.

"...and yes, it will be retroactive, we will be investigating any indications of criminal activity, within the limits of the statute of limitations."
posted by Nice Guy Mike at 7:44 AM on September 16 [17 favorites]


The blaring, grinding noise jolted the American diplomat from his bed in a Havana hotel. He moved just a few feet, and there was silence. He climbed back into bed. Inexplicably, the agonizing sound hit him again. It was as if he’d walked through some invisible wall cutting straight through his room.

Soon came the hearing loss, and the speech problems, symptoms both similar and altogether different from others among at least 21 U.S. victims in an astonishing international mystery still unfolding in Cuba. The top U.S. diplomat has called them “health attacks.” New details learned by The Associated Press indicate at least some of the incidents were confined to specific rooms or even parts of rooms with laser-like specificity, baffling U.S. officials who say the facts and the physics don’t add up.


Lousy renegade psions.
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 8:24 AM on September 16


I believe the thinking has been that the Cuban Government is not involved. To me, asking the US for help confirms this. If Cuba is worried about this, that's bad.

Would not surprise me at all to be Russia stirring the shit. Russia is in International Relations for the lulz.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:25 AM on September 16 [5 favorites]


One is even a Trump voting Tea Party activist rodeo rider now.

Who whoa WHOA.

What now?


Not unusual for certain parts of the country. Where I grew up there were a small number of kids who did rodeo in the summers instead of playing on a summer baseball league. ND High School Rodeo (don't rewind to the start if you have a problem with calf roping). Some of these kids go on to compete nationally and, given the political makeup of the regions where rodeo is treated as a legitimate sport, it wouldn't be surprising if a disproportionate number of them are Tea Partiers/Trumpists/sovereign citizens.
posted by nathan_teske at 8:38 AM on September 16 [1 favorite]


Would not surprise me at all to be Russia stirring the shit.

Putin's secret police and intelligence services have been harassing U.S. diplomats all over Europe for years now. In one notorious incident, Russian intelligence personnel broke into a U.S. defense attache's Moscow house and killed his dog.
posted by Doktor Zed at 8:42 AM on September 16 [7 favorites]


peeedro: I think Carter Page is genuinely unwell.

More tinfoil hattery: while the Russians are more of a "kill you in a gruesome sort of way, so much so that the police opt to say 'no sign of foul play' rather than possibly get targeted by those Russian killers themselves, what if Russian operatives have turned to poisoning people in such a way to damage their brains and ruin their potential as a viable witness to crimes?
posted by filthy light thief at 9:00 AM on September 16 [8 favorites]


This week in plagiarism news:

Former Milwaukee County Sheriff David Clarke must revise his master's thesis or risk losing his degree in security studies.
posted by darkstar at 9:18 AM on September 16 [29 favorites]


I'm from Minnesota, I totally get rodeo.

I just had an image of someone conbining rodeo and Tea Hadism, like a rodeo preacher. Made me hopeful for a minute there. :7)
posted by wenestvedt at 9:25 AM on September 16


They have rodeo in Minnesota?

Minnesodeo?
posted by Faint of Butt at 9:35 AM on September 16 [6 favorites]


They have rodeo in Minnesota?

The southern half of the state is more Iowa/Nebraska/Dakota than Canada. The Northern half though... Proabably, the easternmost western state in terms of wilderness and remoteness.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 9:42 AM on September 16 [3 favorites]


Russian intelligence personnel broke into a U.S. defense attache's Moscow house and killed his dog.

Ok, look. I throw around "Act of War" a lot. If ANYTHING is a fucking Act of War, THIS IS.

Of course, DJT doesn't have a dog, so even that empathy is not there.

Shit's fucked up all over.
posted by mikelieman at 9:46 AM on September 16 [5 favorites]


> Fuck you I won't do what you tell me

Most of the dudebros I knew in university who loved this song seemed to interpret "what you tell me" as "don't be an asshole." They were not into not being assholes.
posted by The Card Cheat at 9:53 AM on September 16 [5 favorites]


Down Rodeo live by RATM. Yeah, ok, how does Paul Ryan like this;

Yeah I'm rollin' down Rodeo with a shotgun
These people ain't seen a brown skin man
Since their grandparents bought one.


The Prophets Of Rage are releasing an album. They are a group consisting of former members of Public Enemy, Cypress Hill, and Rage Against The Machine. It is protest music, a fusion of hip hop and rock and dammit Chuck D came to the party to say UNFUCK THE WORLD.
posted by adept256 at 9:59 AM on September 16 [11 favorites]


Politico: Another prosecutor joins Trump-Russia probe
An attorney working on the Justice Department's highest-profile money laundering case recently transferred off that assignment in order to join the staff of the special prosecutor investigating the Trump campaign's potential ties to Russia, POLITICO has learned.

Attorney Kyle Freeny was among the prosecutors on hand Friday as a spokesman for former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort, Jason Maloni, testified before a grand jury at federal court in Washington.

Freeny, whose assignment to Special Counsel Robert Mueller's staff has not been previously reported, is the 17th lawyer known to be working with the former FBI chief on the investigation into Russian meddling in the 2016 presidential election. She departed from the courthouse Friday with two other members of Mueller's squad: former Criminal Division chief and Enron prosecutor Andrew Weissman and Civil Division appellate attorney Adam Jed, a former clerk to Supreme Court Justice John Paul Stevens.

Before being detailed to Mueller's team, Freeny was shepherding the Justice Department's headline-grabbing effort to seize the profits from the film "The Wolf of Wall Street" on grounds that the film was financed with assets looted from the Malaysian government..
posted by chris24 at 10:02 AM on September 16 [21 favorites]


I agree 100%. I thought John Wick was the story of a man having a reasonable reaction to people having broken into his house and killing his dog. There are no bad dogs which makes it worse in some ways than if they had assassinated a human.

On top of that, it's entirely possible that dogs are what helped humans develop the empathy necessary to form civilization.

Leave the dogs out of it.
posted by VTX at 10:04 AM on September 16 [24 favorites]


Oh, yes, protest songs have been so pivotal to America's recent political history #sarcasm (|) 🍔
Like so many other things, Tom Lehrer sang it best, decades ago.
posted by oneswellfoop at 10:12 AM on September 16 [3 favorites]


Yeah, that certainly explains why I can't think of a single anti-war song that Lehrer is well known for, fifty years later. {royale w/ cheese}
posted by a box and a stick and a string and a bear at 10:17 AM on September 16 [4 favorites]


To be fair, Chappaquiddick was a very nasty business - especially for Mary Jo Kopechne, her family and women everywhere.

I realise that the current situation is more than desperate, but this doesn't exonerate misogynistic white supremacy past present or future in the cause of ousting its latest manifestation
posted by Myeral at 10:33 AM on September 16 [2 favorites]



I realise that the current situation is more than desperate, but this doesn't exonerate misogynistic white supremacy past present or future in the cause of ousting its latest manifestation


or just regular old misogyny, in this case. I have grave doubts that anybody mentioning "Chappaquiddick" cares about Mary Jo Kopechne (the infallible tell is that they talk about Chappaquiddick instead of Mary Jo Kopechne) and no interest in supporting nostalgic reminiscinces about crimes of Democrats past, with or without a good reason or an ulterior motive, at the present time.

but those grave doubts go for the people who treat it as just an old-fashioned example of BUT HER EMAILS every bit as much as it does for the conservatives who are glad it happened because TK putting his reputation and political future above any concerns for a woman's life was almost as bad as pushing for health care and nearly half as unpopular. re: bothsidesism, even a stopped clock is right twice a day and every once in a while both sides are equally repugnant on a very particular issue. the tortured intricacy of the repugnance is just about equal, too, which is rare and special.

so, shut up about "Chappaquiddick" right now because we lost the chance to take it seriously and hold a man to account, forever, back before TK died a worshipped statesman and now never can? fair. shut up about it right now because DONALD TRUMP and priorities? also fair. shut up about it right now because it never mattered? fuck that.
posted by queenofbithynia at 11:04 AM on September 16 [34 favorites]


For MAGA hat douchebros to wear RHCP shirts is entirely appropriate given that the RHCP are well known for their rapey behavior.
posted by snuffleupagus at 11:33 AM on September 16 [8 favorites]


I drove through downtown DC today on my way home from a picnic thrown by our daycare, and was puzzled by the massive police presence due to the corresponding lack of, well, just about anyone out on the streets. Came home and opened Facebook, and it looks like TENS OF PEOPLE showed up to support the President at the much-vaunted MOTHER OF ALL RALLIES.

Y'ALL. The small unincorporated area of Burtonsville, Maryland, about 10 miles outside of DC, held their annual "Burtonsville Day" celebration today, and by the looks of it, they had several times the turnout as the MOTHER OF ALL RALLIES. (Bonus points: their theme this year was "Celebrating Multicultural Burtonsville.")
posted by duffell at 12:03 PM on September 16 [51 favorites]


I'm not saying that negates any of the horribleness, obviously, but if you're looking for something to brighten your mood, there it is.
posted by duffell at 12:04 PM on September 16 [4 favorites]


what if Russian operatives have turned to poisoning people in such a way to damage their brains and ruin their potential as a viable witness to crimes?

Happened to Yushchenko.
posted by ocschwar at 12:53 PM on September 16 [2 favorites]


Shots of "The Mother of All Rallies". Turn out seems somewhat less than advertised.
posted by octothorpe at 1:03 PM on September 16 [21 favorites]


Sign of the (New York?) Times: This year's 'new' 'hot' 'sexy' Halloween costume is allegedly the "Sexy Fake News". [real, damit!]
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:22 PM on September 16 [1 favorite]


Sign of the (New York?) Times: This year's 'new' 'hot' 'sexy' Halloween costume is allegedly the "Sexy Fake News".

Field report: Upon viewing, only things hardening here are my coronary arteries.
posted by maxwelton at 1:27 PM on September 16 [2 favorites]


what if Russian operatives have turned to poisoning people in such a way to damage their brains and ruin their potential as a viable witness to crimes?

well that would explain trump
posted by entropicamericana at 1:34 PM on September 16 [3 favorites]


what if Russian operatives have turned to poisoning people in such a way to damage their brains and ruin their potential as a viable witness to crimes?

well that would explain trump


You don't give the guy enough credit. Trump manages to be criminally stupid all by himself.
posted by lydhre at 1:40 PM on September 16 [2 favorites]


uh, breaking from the WSJ:
Trump Administration Won’t Withdraw from Paris Climate Deal:U.S. has stated it will ‘not renegotiate the Paris accord’ but will review its terms

*Trump Administration Won’t Withdraw from Paris Climate Deal -- EU Official
*U.S. Has Stated It Will ‘Not Renegotiate the Paris Accord’ But Will Review Its Terms -- EU Climate Official
*Trump Administration Said in June It Would Nix or Renegotiate the Climate Accord

(More to Come)
[that is the entirety of the piece]
posted by lalex at 1:41 PM on September 16 [39 favorites]


¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Scott Pruitt must be setting EPA headquarters on fire.
posted by zachlipton at 1:46 PM on September 16 [21 favorites]


¯\_(ツ)_/¯
posted by lalex at 1:46 PM on September 16 [16 favorites]


omg zach
posted by lalex at 1:46 PM on September 16 [50 favorites]


nothing matters
nothing matters
nothing matters
but I'll take it
posted by lalex at 1:47 PM on September 16 [8 favorites]


Anyone else think zach and lalex need to run off to Vegas and get hitched? #meanttobe
posted by orrnyereg at 1:49 PM on September 16 [47 favorites]


Shots of "The Mother of All Rallies". Turn out seems somewhat less than advertised.

I've seen a political cartoon from the right that responds to this - a team of donkeys, newsmen with cameras, and stereotypical "hippie" folk are all confronting a lone elephant holding a "MAGA" sign, and taunting him about the low turnout. "Where's everyone at your rally?" they're saying? And the elephant simply says "They're at work."

I would love to know how to ask the cartoonist "then why didn't they schedule the rally for the weekend, the way we liberals always do so people actually can show up."
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:49 PM on September 16 [18 favorites]


omfg lalex what have we done?
posted by zachlipton at 1:52 PM on September 16 [14 favorites]


At this point, the makers of Trump Flip Flops sandals are going to need to sell them by the dozen... if he survives to the end of his term, you'll need an "Imelda Marcos-sized show closet" to store them all.

We are all ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
It IS Saturday, after all.
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:53 PM on September 16 [3 favorites]


we are approaching the zalex singularity.
it's happening
it's happening
it's happening
posted by lalex at 1:54 PM on September 16 [27 favorites]


I'd like to be back in a position where capability in the federal government is something to be lauded, myself, but I guess I'll take what I can get. Hurray for our gov not following through on leaving the climate agreement?

This whole admin is just omnishambles. If only Thick of It was still running (and American). I'd pay hard money to watch someone ruthlessly competent shouting at thinly-veiled knockoffs of this admin.
posted by Trifling at 1:54 PM on September 16 [2 favorites]


Schrodinger's President, I'm tellin' ya. Just don't anybody look in the box for the next three and a half years, and we might make it through this.
posted by darkstar at 1:56 PM on September 16 [3 favorites]




what's in the baaaaaahcks
posted by entropicamericana at 1:58 PM on September 16 [13 favorites]


@GlennThrush: "WH spox denies WSJ story claiming US might stay in Paris accords -- saying position hasn't changed..."

I guess The Generals didn't tell Trump yet...
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 1:59 PM on September 16 [2 favorites]


Deputy Press Secretary statement:
WH responds: "There has been no change in the United States' position on the Paris agreement..." 1/
"As the President has made abundantly clear, the US is withdrawing unless we can re-enter on terms more favorable to our country."
I'd never trust anyone from the press office to know what's going on, but it's also frankly possible that an EU official started a rumor to make Trump look like an idiot.
posted by zachlipton at 2:02 PM on September 16 [8 favorites]


frankly possible that an EU official started a rumor to make Trump look like an idiot.

then they can come sit by me
posted by lalex at 2:02 PM on September 16 [52 favorites]


"WH spox denies WSJ story..."

Hasn't this consistently been code for 'confirms', in this administration?
posted by Devonian at 2:06 PM on September 16 [7 favorites]


I guess we are all going to have to gather together, as a community, and attempt to figure this out until enough people in the WH get their shit together to issue a coherent statement.

This is the true meaning of covfefe, my friends, and it was in our hearts all along.
posted by lalex at 2:07 PM on September 16 [9 favorites]


There is no consistent code.
posted by notyou at 2:09 PM on September 16


Ok the WSJ story now has a named source from Europe:
“The U.S. has stated that they will not renegotiate the Paris accord, but they will try to review the terms on which they could be engaged under this agreement,” European Commissioner for Climate Action and Energy Miguel Arias Cañete said.
But...
Still, Washington’s move may prove a Pyrrhic victory for Paris Agreement champions. The U.S. is expected to significantly reduce its ambition to curb greenhouse-gas emissions, which would be in line with Mr. Trump’s goal of clinching “fairer terms,” the official said.
...
Washington is reviewing new emission-cut targets to combat climate change, Mr. Eissenstat said, according to the official. Any revisions would lower existing U.S. commitments signed by former President Barack Obama, which would be a blow to the global effort, the person said. Under the Paris accord, every country set its own goals.

While Mr. Eissenstat outlined a plan to reassure partners that the U.S. would be constructive, he did not provide clarity on the new emissions-reduction objectives, the person said.

“They are seriously considering the terms on which the U.S. could re-engage,” the person said. “They have also made clear that they have no intention to renegotiate or develop a parallel track to Paris.”
So is the plan to just change our national climate goals to "we'll install one of those funny curly-cue light bulbs in the White House basement somewhere" and call it a day?

It also raises the obvious question of why we would stay in an effort to combat something the President believes to be a Chinese hoax.
posted by zachlipton at 2:12 PM on September 16 [4 favorites]


Bad Democrats are Bad and should feel Bad.

"ISPs can keep sharing your browsing history after California no-vote" -- ArsTechnica
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 2:13 PM on September 16 [9 favorites]


The Juggalo march seems to be going great though:

@ddale8: Violent J says criminalizing opinion is like sewing a man's butthole shut. "Do you want to sew a man's butthole shut?" Juggalos: "Noooo!"
Shaggy 2 Dope delivers a plea for total inclusion: "If a ninja has a soul, then a ninja matters immensely." Then he mentions buttholes.
posted by zachlipton at 2:37 PM on September 16 [37 favorites]


V.Jay/ 2 Dope 2020: Do you want to sew a man's butthole shut? NOOO
posted by Rust Moranis at 2:55 PM on September 16 [3 favorites]


I don't know what the GOP position on buttholes is, but I'm sure it's wrong
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 3:01 PM on September 16 [22 favorites]


don't you mean it's...ass-backwards?

YEEEEAAAAAAHHHHHH
posted by lalex at 3:05 PM on September 16 [22 favorites]


The Juggalo march seems to be going great though

For the Twitter-averse, please just know that Dale's feed is pretty fucking amazing:

Violent J says the Juggalos should be so proud today they should perform auto-fellatio under the "governmently-fine landscaped maple trees."

Violent J: "Intelligence is how to make a nuclear bomb. But wisdom is how not to use it. Juggalos have mad wisdom."

Just now:

Violent J concludes: "LET'S MARCH MOTHAFUCKAAAS." This completes my live-tweeting.

Look. What with speculation about Kid Rock running for office, America could do worse than a Violent J/Shaggy 2 Dope ticket in 2020.

And the fact is, you've already done worse...so really, what do you have to lose?
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 3:10 PM on September 16 [40 favorites]


don't you mean it's...ass-backward?

YEEEEAAAAAAHHHHHH


I was going to write "go home, lalex, you're drunk" but then I realized what I really meant was "I'll have what lalex is having."
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:15 PM on September 16 [19 favorites]


Well it's one two three
What are we voting for?
Don't ask me I don't give a damn
My next stop is Trumpistan.

(with sincere apologies to Country Joe McDonald)
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 3:16 PM on September 16 [6 favorites]


Look. What with speculation about Kid Rock running for office, America could do worse than a Violent J/Shaggy 2 Dope ticket in 2020.

If they run on this platform, I'm down with it.

its actually a pretty decent remake of that song.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 3:24 PM on September 16 [1 favorite]


As Tori Amos once said (in response to a heckler getting booed), "Where would we be without our assholes?"

One kinda interesting thing about this year is how the DSA has gone from a group I had barely heard of, to a group that seems to be everywhere now. They're there with the Juggalos.

And from the march, an absolutely great protest sign.
posted by Teegeeack AV Club Secretary at 3:25 PM on September 16 [21 favorites]


I really like this sign.

For the Twitter adverse: "2017 IS WEIRD AND BAD"
posted by zachlipton at 3:28 PM on September 16 [22 favorites]


"First speaker: Juggalos don't care if people are white, gay, black, trans, "fat as fuck" - "we're different, not dangerous."

ICP's Violent J complains of authorities pushing "1967 bullshit," trying to deny gay marriage and racial and economic integration.

The Juggalos give a big "whoop whoop" to "hating Confederate monuments."


They may not understand the principles of magnetism, but Violent J / Shaggy would be a huge improvement over Trump or Kid Rock. Maybe the NYT can now do another tedious think piece on disaffected white working class people. But this time focusing on the ones who aren't hateful.
posted by Teegeeack AV Club Secretary at 3:32 PM on September 16 [78 favorites]


And from the march, an absolutely great protest sign.

For context for non-Twitter folks: The sign is being held up by a Juggalo on the Washington Mall and reads: "Dragnets/How do they work?"

Someone following Dale responded to the sign with:

Marquette Law Review, Volume 97, Issue 4, Summer 2014 Article 6 - Gang Definitions, How Do They Work?: What the Juggalos Teach Us About the Inadequacy of Current Anti-Gang Law (PDF)

Precisely what constitutes a gang has been a hotly contested academic issue for a century. Recently, this problem has ceased to be purely academic and has developed urgent, real-world consequences. Almost every state and the federal government has enacted anti-gang laws in the past several decades. These anti-gang statutes must define ‘gang’ in order to direct police suppression efforts and to criminally punish gang members or associates. These statutory gang definitions are all too often vague and overbroad, as the example of the Juggalos demonstrates. The Juggalos are the fans of Insane Clown Posse, and have been declared a gang by several states and organs of the federal government despite all evidence to the contrary. The Juggalos are merely one example of how overbroad gang definitions have enabled arbitrary and discriminatory police action.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 3:33 PM on September 16 [25 favorites]


1967 bullshit

I come here for a good time but honestly am feeling so attacked right now.
posted by maxwelton at 3:39 PM on September 16 [3 favorites]


ICP are deadly serious about their message of inclusion and tolerance and found-family - and also on addressing the "missing stair" issue by calling out family for their bullshit. They're very religious, but in a truly righteous way: their mission is to bring people to God, not bring God to the people.

They're not saints, oh hell no, and the Juggalos, being mostly the poor and disaffected, are not all choirboys and girlscouts. They sure as shit ain't a gang.

One other point - In the Pewdepie "apology" for shouting the "n" word on a published stream gaming-culture horror-show, I saw a tweet from someone who noted, "Marshal Mathers never once used the word in his entire career. It isn't part of his vocabulary."

The ICP realized this early on, and introduced "ninja" as a way of signifying a fellow-traveler for white kids. That word is not part of their vocabulary, either.
posted by Slap*Happy at 4:24 PM on September 16 [73 favorites]


Metafilter: I come here for a good time but honestly I am feeling so attacked right now.
posted by uosuaq at 4:31 PM on September 16 [11 favorites]




I had some old friends who became juggaloes. Some of the most tragically economically and socially exploited good people who ended up not getting a fair shake from polite society most of their lives I've ever known (especially for white boys) and it makes me so happy and gratified to see them standing up to the bigots and Nazis. It really isn't true that just being white and male necessarily makes life easy or fair for everybody who hits those demographic markers. Economic disenfranhisement/poverty and family dysfunction can still be powerful impediments to health and human dignity in the U.S. And it's great to see that some of the disenfranchised angry white men, at least, aren't falling for the usual trick of letting their righteous anger be turned on their fellows among the oppressed via white supremacy and racism. I'll admit, my old friends aren't saints either but they're on the side of the angels now when it counts and personally I find that deeply beautiful and moving. Even though they'd probably make fun of me for saying that so earnestly and in such high toned diction (which also seems kind of beautiful to me).
posted by saulgoodman at 5:18 PM on September 16 [58 favorites]


Comey's Waltz. ("Prairie Home Companion" performance.)
posted by Coventry at 5:31 PM on September 16 [2 favorites]


For the Twitter adverse: "2017 IS WEIRD AND BAD"

'May you live in interesting times' indeed.
posted by RolandOfEld at 5:33 PM on September 16 [1 favorite]


And let's be real: The Donald's face paint is creepier than Violent J's or Shaggy's, or The Joker's, or even Pennywise's.
posted by oneswellfoop at 5:55 PM on September 16 [15 favorites]




re: previous comment, "The Joker" is intended to refer to Cesar Romero, Jack Nicholson or Heath Ledger... Jared Leto comes close in creepyness, but still not quite.
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:29 PM on September 16 [2 favorites]




tfw even Melania is done with him.

What's wrong with that? Every night before bed I give my intimate partner a semi-formal handshake and tell them to go sit down. It's just what loving couples do.
posted by petebest at 6:31 PM on September 16 [21 favorites]


He did that handshake thing with Ivanka, too, immediately after that weirdness of bringing her onstage and announcing he liked that she called him 'daddy.'

On preview,

What's wrong with that? Every night before bed I give my intimate partner a semi-formal handshake and tell them to go sit down. It's just what loving couples do.

I said the same thing!
Aw, I remember when my daddy used to call me over and greet me with a nice, firm handshake.
posted by Room 641-A at 6:35 PM on September 16


Look, the window was charging him, he didn't know if it was armed, sometimes cops have to make split-second decisions, we shouldn't rush to judgment.
posted by uosuaq at 6:35 PM on September 16 [30 favorites]


tfw even Melania is done with him.

Melania to Gabriel: Elizabeth got Phillip and I get this??
posted by SakuraK at 6:48 PM on September 16 [5 favorites]


your evening schadenfreude from the Washington Examiner: Russia probes leave Trump associates struggling with huge legal bills in which:

* Michael Caputo says he's had to liquidate his children's college funds.
* An anonymous former advisor blames Kellyanne and Hope Hicks for his mounting legal fees
* we get this hilarious quote (I have helpfully highlighted the hilarious part):
"Multibillionaire Donald Trump has a moral obligation to pay the mounting legal bills of his advisers who are facing four-, five- and six-figure costs just for doing their jobs"
I'll be over here, tooting on the world's tiniest sadtrombone.
posted by lalex at 7:19 PM on September 16 [68 favorites]


Surely "moral obligation" is the hilarious part there.
posted by uosuaq at 7:32 PM on September 16 [43 favorites]


FAIR.
posted by lalex at 7:39 PM on September 16 [2 favorites]


In today's very special episode of "white supremacists who thought their faces were leopard-proof": How Trump’s Immigration Crackdown Threatens to Choke Idaho’s Dairy Industry

The unusual show of protest by immigrant families and employers carrying “No ICE” signs left Charles Howell, the chairman of the Jerome County Commission, “flabbergasted.” Howell, an electrician, said it didn’t occur to him that renting jail beds to ICE would frighten people.

He could have, you know, asked. I have zero sympathy for communities that make their livings on the backs of underpaid workers while persecuting them at the same time. I'm told that saying "I told you so" to them is not graceful, so instead I will paraphrase an Idaho hero: they knew he was a snake they voted for him anyway.
posted by SakuraK at 7:44 PM on September 16 [30 favorites]


> "Multibillionaire Donald Trump has a moral obligation to pay the mounting legal bills of his advisers who are facing four-, five- and six-figure costs just for doing their jobs"

mfw
posted by tonycpsu at 7:53 PM on September 16 [5 favorites]


Donald Trump has lived for over 70 years without EVER fulfilling a "moral obligation" to anybody*. Why do they expect him to begin now?

*and that probably got him more votes than his racism, sexism, billionairehood or 'outsider status', to be honest. He's the "guy who got away with EVERYTHING" that way too much of America envies. And way too much of America think 'envy' is the same as 'admiration'.
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:02 PM on September 16 [4 favorites]


At this point if you can get more than 5-10 white guys in one place without a neo-nazi, just call that a win.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:04 PM on September 16 [9 favorites]




The issue ICP is protesting is truly Orwellian. For people to be legally disadvantaged in this way (simply because they sport tattoos indicating that they share musical tastes with a few assholes!) is tantamount to legislating a thought crime.
posted by Coventry at 8:09 PM on September 16 [49 favorites]


Democrats may finally be ready to offer voters something real

This is an actual sincere question for people who are better informed than I am because I have tried to go through Sanders' congressional record to find this out but there are decades of it, and maybe someone else will know off the tops of their heads.

Did Bernie Sanders introduce a single-payer bill when Obama was president and the Dems had Congress? Or other times in his career when the president and congressional majorities weren't republicans trying to dismantle federal healthcare as much as possible?
posted by mrmurbles at 8:16 PM on September 16 [3 favorites]


> Did Bernie Sanders introduce a single-payer bill when Obama was president and the Dems had Congress?

The Dems "had congress", with the requisite 60 vote majority in the Senate, for all of a couple months. Bernie did introduce a single-payer proposal, but of course it had no shot considering the ACA got the bare minimum number of votes.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:34 PM on September 16 [11 favorites]


In today's very special episode of "white supremacists who thought their faces were leopard-proof": How Trump’s Immigration Crackdown Threatens to Choke Idaho’s Dairy Industry

Local milk people: "we didn't think we would be the local milk people"
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:42 PM on September 16 [27 favorites]


Video of the attack.

All five-year-olds should be treated as gang members because Tony threw a can at Alice's head in kindergarten seven years ago.
posted by Coventry at 8:50 PM on September 16 [1 favorite]


tfw even Melania is done with him.

You libtards didn't mind when Obama did the same thing!

Except with, y'know, love and affection.
posted by kirkaracha at 8:52 PM on September 16 [1 favorite]


[2010 incidents between Juggalos and Tila Tequila are not germane to the thread.]
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 9:08 PM on September 16 [23 favorites]


St Louis police committed the property damage that they blamed on violent protesters

To paraphrase the NRA: "The only thing that stops a bad cop with a gun, is a good cop with a gun." I haven't seen a very many good cops lately. I'd like to see this be more of a thing. (...maybe losing the "with a gun" part.)

If YOU, Officer Just-Trying-To-Do-My-Job aren't actively invested in police reform, then you are a Bad Guy, not a Good Guy.
posted by Anoplura at 9:56 PM on September 16 [8 favorites]


Drew Philip (Guardian), 'The new Obama': will Abdul El-Sayed be America's first Muslim governor?:
“I believe in a separation of church and state,” he started, making a note that John F Kennedy’s Catholicism was also a turning point in American politics.

"I can tell you that my ability to practice my faith in person, in my own home, when I choose to, where I’m allowed to, because of freedoms in this country have everything to do with that separation of church and state,” he said. “If I am going to want to be able to put my face on the ground 34 times a day, like I do, because I’m Muslim, I want to make sure no one can take that right away from me. And I will not take that right away from anyone else.”

He received an enormous round of applause after answering the question – in a nearly completely white and Christian room – and a standing ovation at the end of the event, that went over time by almost an hour.

Afterward, I asked the man who asked the Sharia question if, after hearing El-Sayed speak, he thought he would bring Sharia law to the US.

“No,” the man said. “I don’t.”
His launch speech is a little rough around the edges, but worth a listen.
posted by bardophile at 10:11 PM on September 16 [31 favorites]


VIRGINIA HOUSE ELECTIONS - HD 41-45

intro
1-5
6-10
11-15
16-20
21-25
26-30
31-35
36-40

===

41st District
Currently Dem seat
R cand: none
D cand: Eileen Filler-Corn (incumbent)

DC suburbs (Fairfax), 67.6% white. Incumbent first elected in 2010 special. D won 57-39 in 2013, no R candidate in 2015. Clinton won district 63-31.

===

42nd District
Currently GOP seat
R cand: Lolita Mancheno-Smoak
D cand: Kathy Tran

DC suburbs (Fairfax), 69.0% white. R won 60-40 in 2013 and 63-37 in 2015. Clinton won district 59-36. Ballotpedia Race To Watch and Flippable Priority district.

===

43rd District
Currently Dem seat
R cand: none
D cand: Mark Sickles (incumbent)

DC suburbs (Fairfax), 59.2% white. Incumbent first elected in 2003. No R candidate in 2013, D won 63-33 in 2015. Clinton won district 69-25.

===

44th District
Currently Dem seat
R cand: none
D cand: Paul Krizek (incumbent)

DC suburbs (Fairfax), 55.4% white. Incumbent first elected in 2015. No R candidate in 2013 or 2015. Clinton won district 69-26.

===

45th District
Currently Dem seat
R cand: none
D cand: Mark Levine (incumbent)

DC suburbs (Alexandria), 74.7% white. Incumbent first elected in 2015. No R candidate in 2013 or 2015. Clinton won district 75-18.

===

Next time: 46-50.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:22 PM on September 16 [28 favorites]


John Cole: Their Remarkable Patience
Now look, I know the last fucking thing this planet needs is another hot take on race from a middle-aged male so white that French vanilla ice cream looks tan next to my skin, and I know I am not a first rate intellect or an amazing writer, nor do I have the experiences of being black in America, but you’re getting one anyway because I need to get this shit off my chest. Do white people truly not understand that black people in America are some of the most patient people on the fucking planet? And I truly mean that. Because if white people had gone through 1/100th of what black people have collectively, and the roles were reversed, this is what St. Louis would look like right now after a black cop murdered yet another white person, planted the weapon, and then got acquitted: [...]

That is not an exaggeration. We white people rioted for the simple reason a black man got fairly elected. We (and this is a royal we) lost our fucking shit when the black President suggested that maybe a white policeman shouldn’t have gone Robocop on a college professor on his front porch for, well, being black. We demanded he have the fucking cop over for a beer. Do you remember that shit? I can’t even think about it without rolling my fucking eyes in disgust at my fellow white people. Jesus fucking christ. [...]

If roles were reversed, we’d have white terror cells that would make ISIS and Al Qaeda blush. As it is, roles are not reversed and the fucking racists are trying to get there anyway. So yeah. Shut the fuck up and count your lucky stars you are white and thank your god that shit has worked out the way it has. Because we’re lucky as fuck that the sum total of the black response is to form nonviolent groups like Black Lives Matter and the NAACP and what not, maybe a few randoms obliquely discussing reparations, and a few fucking broken windows every now and then when black people are murdered in the fucking street by an unrepentant white power structure.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:51 PM on September 16 [151 favorites]


a few fucking broken windows now and then

And we now know that at least some of the damage can't even be blamed on the protestors. From the way the police failed to react, I think they've seen this sort of false-flaggery before.
posted by Joe in Australia at 11:28 PM on September 16 [4 favorites]


These anti-gang statutes must define ‘gang’ in order to direct police suppression efforts and to criminally punish gang members or associates. These statutory gang definitions are all too often vague and overbroad, as the example of the Juggalos demonstrates.

Honestly, I'm pretty sure a lot of the anti-gang law - especially the bit about multiple gang members hanging out with each other - is pretty flatly unconstitutional, but it's never come to court because it is mostly used against young black men who don't have the money for expensive constitutional lawyers.
posted by corb at 3:19 AM on September 17 [36 favorites]


I left Ireland 30 yrs ago sadly never having known a 'woke' Irishman...

I read 'What Happened' this week & was keen to see what the Irish Reviewers wrote so I saw this today on Twitter and felt unaccountably sad & proud...

It led me down a rabbit whole of other Irish writers response to the Trump election that I'd not see before....
posted by Wilder at 5:23 AM on September 17 [10 favorites]


Half an hour ago the president of the United States went on a shitposting tear, retweeting (among others) a "keep it up libs" meme, a train with a MAGA hat photoshopped onto it, and a video from user @Fuctupmind of Trump hitting Hillary in the back of the head with a golf ball. Then someone must have wrestled the phone away from him, because the account tweeted out a video about him giving money to hurricane victims with the tag "My great honor!"
posted by EarBucket at 5:31 AM on September 17 [25 favorites]


Our insane, needy president is on quite the tweetstorm this morning, retweeting random accounts that are saying nice things about him or attacking his "enemies." Including:

1) One that shows an electoral map with all the states red with the text "Keep it up Libs and this will be 2020."

2) One that says "Donald Trump's amazing golf swing #CrookedHillary" with a video of Trump teeing off and then cuts to Hillary walking onto a plane and falling, with a golf ball added in post hitting her and causing it. From the account @fuctupmind

3) And to complement the violence above, one with the full-on fascist Dear Leader message of "Only true Americans can see that president Trump is making America great. He's the only person who can! Haters are jealous of his success 🇺🇸"

He's also come up with a nickname for KJU. Which isn't his best. I'm thinking KJU might embrace this one.
"I spoke with President Moon of South Korea last night. Asked him how Rocket Man is doing. Long gas lines forming in North Korea. Too bad!"
posted by chris24 at 5:32 AM on September 17 [15 favorites]


And now (still not making this up) it's tweeted a Bloomberg article about how much money Trump makes for Twitter.
posted by EarBucket at 5:32 AM on September 17 [14 favorites]


This is not a stable person.
posted by waitingtoderail at 5:37 AM on September 17 [60 favorites]


Good Morning MetaFilter Alt Time-Travelers of the 904. I won't take a lot of time on the pleasantries, let's get right to it.

You assignment today is in the year 2017, and . . okay, okay, settle down . . . is in the year 2017. You'll be dropped into DC on the mall for your choice of one of two rallies. The supporters of President Donald Trump, who - woah! Woah hold up! He- easy now, yes he became president for a brief while in the early twenty-teens. Yeah.

Yes, 2puck? No I'm not drunk but thanks for asking, can we get on with it now? Somebody pass the Kleenex to carlwilson here. Okay. *ahem* the other rally is held by Juggalos, who have been listed as a criminal gang. I know. Yes, nicely whooped there Huffalump. Here, we're going to run the briefing materials now.
Nine months into the administration of President Donald Trump, fans of the eccentric Detroit rap duo Insane Clown Posse assembled a larger rally on the national mall this Saturday than the president’s diehard supporters stationed a few hundred yards away.

Kevin Gill, an employee for the band and host of a Juggalo podcast, gave the opening remarks, calling the rally, “The most important day in Juggalo history.” This protest was “some monumental shit,” he added, before ripping into a denunciation of the FBI for categorizing Juggalos as a gang. In response, the crowd broke into a raucous chant about the much-hated FBI, “They fucked up! They fucked up!”

“Give us back our fucking civil rights,” Gill shouted.
Okay I think we all know what we need to do. So get in there, smoke some weed, save democracy, and get out. Alright? Let's be careful out there. And may the quidnunc be with you.
posted by petebest at 5:40 AM on September 17 [43 favorites]


the window was charging him, he didn't know if it was armed, sometimes cops have to make split-second decisions

Young Master Flabdablet has just had to deprive his new budgerigar of its new mirror for much the same reason.
posted by flabdablet at 5:46 AM on September 17 [6 favorites]


The sad thing is even in sixth grade my friends who were juggaloes got stigmatized as possible gang members by our local school administration. Why? They wore leather jackets to school every day for a couple of months because their parents had abandoned them alone at home with no clean clothes and that was all they had left to wear. They were just kids trying to survive and make do with a crappy hand they were dealt and all the polite white school authorities stigmatized and persecuted them when they needed help most. It was one of the saddest things I've seen in a life full of sad examples of wasted human potential.
posted by saulgoodman at 5:51 AM on September 17 [52 favorites]


Poor Treasury Barbie, torn apart by the Guardian

I wish it wasn't so misogynysterical... but it's still schadenfreuderrific
posted by Mchelly at 6:08 AM on September 17 [8 favorites]


The day the real Insane Clown Posse presented a more coherent, popular and credible political stance than the fake insane clown posse inside the WH...

So noted.
posted by Devonian at 6:43 AM on September 17 [49 favorites]


Long gas lines forming in North Korea.

Yeah, and I hear Kim Jong Un's Nielsen Ratings are just shit
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:48 AM on September 17 [16 favorites]


Re: Poor Treasury Barbie

Other highlights? Her repeated insistence that the infamous social media post “does not reflect” who she is. And yet, having had a good look at Louise’s Instagram before she locked it down, I suspect it reflected her like a striplit mirror in a nightclub at 4am: horrendous, but you are probably better off knowing. She seems to be suffering from a textbook case of personality dysmorphia, where she imagines herself possessed of enormous humility and charm, but is, in reality, a boring little monster.

When all of this is over - and it will be over, one way or another, sooner rather than later - We'll have to tai-chi our way through hundreds of these sorry-not-sorry flatulent magazine spreads from Chao's Husband's Wife on down. They will not be successful.

How y'doin Dick Cheney? Still indignant and war-crimey? I got my dancin' shoes on, muthafucka!
posted by petebest at 6:53 AM on September 17 [10 favorites]


This morning's tweetstorm really has me on edge. I haven't experienced this kind of distracting and overbearing anxiety in a while. It really makes me sympathetic to what some people with less controlled Psychiatric issues are going through. Anyone who grew up under the control of an unhinged and increasingly unwell parent/guardian must be having flashbacks right now.

I feel like it also validates my suspicion that he takes some kind of powerful psychostimulant in the morning, and the "sundowning" people often comment on is more a manifestation of his stimulant(s) wearing off.
posted by prosopagnosia at 7:10 AM on September 17 [31 favorites]


Long gas lines forming in North Korea.

Yeah, and I hear Kim Jong Un's Nielsen Ratings are just shit


A tiny number of people in NK have cars and are permitted to fill them. Not enough cars for long gas lines to form anywhere, ever. He thinks it's a bizarro USA 70s-era gas crisis over there. This motherfucker has no idea what's going on and he has the power to end all our lives on a whim.

If humanity survives, in a few centuries we'll have tiny shrines to household gods in the corner of every hut. Among the figurines and votives will be a representation of the idiot god-man who could destroy the world at any moment. Maybe he'll, like, eat the sun if we don't burn a raisin in his little offering-bowl every day.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:17 AM on September 17 [23 favorites]


Look, the window was charging him, he didn't know if it was armed, sometimes cops have to make split-second decisions, we shouldn't rush to judgment.

... and it was tinted.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 7:26 AM on September 17 [24 favorites]


I feel like it also validates my suspicion that he takes some kind of powerful psychostimulant in the morning, and the "sundowning" people often comment on is more a manifestation of his stimulant(s) wearing off.

Could be both, but given the extra-unhinged aspect, I'm thinking the news that Mueller got a search warrant for Facebook accounts ( and this is really a legitimate legal issue ) must have really driven him nuts. Especially if the Adults in the room convinced him he CANNOT go after Mueller.
posted by mikelieman at 7:34 AM on September 17 [11 favorites]


Especially if the Adults in the room convinced him he CANNOT go after Mueller.

Welp - I guess we know what happens next. Y'all got your plans for what to do when he fires Mueller?
posted by petebest at 7:35 AM on September 17 [2 favorites]


Or he is just re-eestablishing his bona fides with his base after all those "Chuck and Nancy" stories.
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:37 AM on September 17 [2 favorites]




Poor Treasury Barbie, torn apart by the Guardian

Bill Clinton or Obama would have long since been forced to fire Mnuchin after a cable news firestorm that lasted for weeks but in this administration this stuff barely makes the top ten list of atrocities.
posted by octothorpe at 7:42 AM on September 17 [38 favorites]


Probably worth it / of interest to post the relevant section from the page OnceUponAAtime linked to above:
That's why we're preparing to hold emergency "Nobody is Above the Law" rallies around the country in the event they are needed.

Use the map or search below by ZIP code to find an event near you, or create one if none exists.

Rallies will begin hours after news breaks of a Mueller firing:

If Mueller is fired BEFORE 2 P.M. local time —> events will begin @ 5 P.M. local time
If Mueller is fired AFTER 2 P.M. local time —> events will begin @ noon local time the following day
This is the general plan—please confirm details on your event page, as individual hosts may tailor their events to their local plan.
posted by petebest at 8:03 AM on September 17 [21 favorites]


He thinks it's a bizarro USA 70s-era gas crisis over there.

Now I see the people of NK wearing unnaturally wide neckties and spending all their time on CB radio
posted by thelonius at 8:15 AM on September 17 [8 favorites]


Mentioned upthread, Trump Retweeted A Video From An Anti-Semitic Account Showing Him Hitting Hillary Clinton With A Golf Ball

President Trump on Sunday morning retweeted a doctored video showing him hitting HIllary Clinton with a golf ball — from an account that makes racial, anti-semitic, and anti-LGBT comments.

At least we can put paid to the idea that Trump is some kind of white supremacist. Finally, and objectively I think we can all agree, this is the pivot.
posted by petebest at 9:04 AM on September 17 [39 favorites]


Finally, and objectively I think we can all agree, this is the pivot.

all I can hear when I think of chuck schumer right now is a sad trombone sound
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:09 AM on September 17 [2 favorites]


"I spoke with President Moon of South Korea last night. Asked him how Rocket Man is doing. Long gas lines forming in North Korea. Too bad!"

And I think it's gonna be a long long time till touchdown brings me round again to find the man who runs the country back at home is batshit fucking insane.

Put me back on the rocket, man.
posted by Talez at 9:10 AM on September 17 [19 favorites]




Eet ees a greht plehssure to eentrohduce my haasband, the Prezdent of de Younited Schtehts, Donald Chump.

This is the first time I have heard Melania Trump speak. It speaks volumes. She has a sweet voice, and it is doubtlessly difficult to be Melania Trump, regardless of what her privilege seems. In fact, I doubt that Melania is allowed to exist at all, unless she is moonlighting. This, I wouldn't doubt for a second.

These are very white is black, and black is white times. I used to think that GW Bush's administration was the biggest robbery of the last two centuries, and now I am sure that Trump and his handlers will put that to shame.

With great deliberation of forethought, drown the coastal cities of the world, drive the refugees inland to survival slavery, those that survive, will compete with robots for work. With limited, but effective nuclear war, the 1% will hire whom they choose to survive with them, Byzantine will seem charitable by the time the new paradigm sets up.
posted by Oyéah at 10:15 AM on September 17 [4 favorites]


Many pointed out how the Red Sox racism banner was super vague and could have gone either way. Turns out the banner stunt was, indeed, right wingers
posted by Yowser at 10:16 AM on September 17 [17 favorites]


Kirkaracha - I read that as "little dick." I must need even moar coffee.

Shower thought re Treasury Barbie: do horrid rich people rescue cats? Bond villains may carry cats around, but it seems that rich socialites are either dog people or no-pet people. Just a small petty thought but anything to dislike the Linton/Mnuchins even more.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 10:17 AM on September 17 [4 favorites]


It's the Obama boom; don't let Trump forget it.
In 2008, Americans chose to put Democrats, led by Barack Obama, in charge, in order to clean up the mess left by George W. Bush and the Republicans who had implemented their policies in previous years. Obama and the Democrats, as the data shows, did a damn good job, a much better one than the other party did when they had a turn. Democratic policies—while not perfect—performed much better for most Americans, in particular those at or below the middle, than those of Republicans.

The media and anyone with a public platform must work to prevent Donald Trump—who has changed essentially nothing about our country’s economic policies—from succeeding in the falsification of yet another set of facts. He cannot be allowed to claim the Obama boom as his own.
posted by darkstar at 10:48 AM on September 17 [19 favorites]


He has spoken loudly and carried a little stick.

Along those lines Eliot Cohen has a good article in The Atlantic that takes a look into how our greatest foreign policy challenges are being unmet by the Trump administration: How Trump Is Ending the American Era.
posted by peeedro at 11:06 AM on September 17 [9 favorites]


Ending the American Era

You know how one of the factors contributing to the fall of Rome was the corrupt, narcissistic, feckless leaders?


Yeah.
posted by darkstar at 11:18 AM on September 17 [16 favorites]


I read that as 'little dick.' I must need even moar coffee.

I think that's implied.
posted by kirkaracha at 11:39 AM on September 17


thank you donald trump for jogging a dusty old brain cell and reminding me that this is something that exists
posted by entropicamericana at 12:34 PM on September 17 [7 favorites]


Eliot Cohen has a good article in The Atlantic that takes a look into how our greatest foreign policy challenges are being unmet by the Trump administration: How Trump Is Ending the American Era.

One of the more enjoyable bits of this spectacle is the whining of neocon and imperialist filth like this shitstain. And this one had some real rich lines that cracked me up too, like "the large-spiritedness of President George W. Bush".
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 1:07 PM on September 17 [7 favorites]




Kamala Harris: "So it looks like you've been in bed with the Russians."
Cohen: "Says who?"
Kamala Harris: "Our intelligence agencies..."
Cohen "Which ones?"
Kamala Harris: "All of them."
posted by Talez at 2:01 PM on September 17 [43 favorites]


I would hope that Trump is as fucking miserable and desperate as he sounds as per today's tweet storm, but then I remember the nukes he has.
posted by angrycat at 2:11 PM on September 17 [7 favorites]


If there's an overarching theme to The Orange Wig, it's his miserable desperateness.
posted by petebest at 2:14 PM on September 17 [1 favorite]


"I spoke with President Moon of South Korea last night. Asked him how Rocket Man is doing. Long gas lines forming in North Korea. Too bad!"

Maybe I am way off base, but this reads to me like the sort of plausible but intentionally wrong thing you feed someone who you think is full of shit. I'm sure the gas shortage is breaking hearts across North Korea in the moments between hunger pangs.
posted by feloniousmonk at 2:30 PM on September 17 [1 favorite]


We embargoed their oil and that's what happens when oil is embargoed, so duh of course there are gas lines. Follow the logic people!
posted by Horkus at 2:41 PM on September 17 [2 favorites]


(of course I meant, "follow the logic,[comma] people." I have no affiliation with The Logic People, which is the best Children's Television Workshop show from the 70s that was never made.)
posted by Horkus at 2:44 PM on September 17 [35 favorites]


I thought it was a racial slur for Vulcans.
posted by Coventry at 2:48 PM on September 17 [9 favorites]


Also, North Koreans don't have the freedom of movement within their own country, privately owned automobiles are not much of a thing there. So the mental image of gas lines is pretty misleading.

Also, many Americans just experienced waiting in lines for scarce gasoline in Florida and Texas, so it's way beyond tone-deaf to say "gas lines, too bad!"
posted by peeedro at 2:54 PM on September 17 [14 favorites]


I have to say I'm enjoying Stephen King on twitter using his title of creator of imaginary fucked up shit to proclaim Trump is some fucked up shit. For that, I forgive him the infamous It sex scene. He still has some Dark Tower stuff Book Five on to answer for, though.
posted by angrycat at 3:09 PM on September 17 [9 favorites]


There sure seems like an awful lack of attention on the news etc when we're one vote away from the worst-yes health care bill. I think its gonna pass guys.
posted by Justinian at 3:14 PM on September 17 [7 favorites]


Many pointed out how the Red Sox racism banner was super vague and could have gone either way. Turns out the banner stunt was, indeed, right wingers

Because this is 2017, nothing is easy or makes much sense, but here goes. A group of five people opposed to racism smuggled the banner into Fenway and then unfurled it. The Boston Globe interviewed the woman who packed it into her bag (figuring she'd be the most likely to get it past security because she's white and female and "wore something cute").

Next, Boston Antifa, which, in fact, is a right-wing Facebook-based troll group, took credit for the banner. No, they had nothing to do with the banner.
posted by adamg at 3:29 PM on September 17 [33 favorites]


I'm seeing a lot of Twitter fired up about this latest attempt to gut the ACA, so there's something at least. We're not going to take this lying down.
posted by spinifex23 at 3:32 PM on September 17 [4 favorites]


It has been a bumper year for Islamophobia in the US. At times, it feels as if all I can do is keep my head down and ride out the storm.
I’ve always been an Arab. It was only when I moved to the US I realised I was ‘brown’.
It is an astounding fraternity, this brownness – a term applied to Central and South Americans, Arabs, Persians, south-east Asians, an assortment of human beings so broad in origin and experience that they may as well literally be called “Other”.
posted by adamvasco at 3:49 PM on September 17 [19 favorites]


Fahrenthold et al have another follow the money piece up at the WaPo, Trump’s divisive presidency reshapes a key part of his private business. This one covers both the business he's losing and the new business he's gained. Trump is making money from political campaigns and committees:
At least 27 federal political committees — including Trump’s reelection campaign — have flocked to his properties. They’ve spent $363,701 in just seven months, according to campaign-finance reports. In addition, the Republican Governors Association paid more than $408,000 to hold an event this spring at the Trump National Doral golf resort, according to tax filings, a gathering the group said was booked back in February 2015.
He's making money from trade groups looking for domestic policy changes:
In July, a trade group representing e-cigarette makers and vape shop owners brought about 150 people to the hotel. They paid $285 per guest room. They also paid to rent a ballroom, and reserve the hotel’s Lincoln Library, though the vapers wouldn’t say how much they cost.

Ten days after the group checked out, it scored a victory.

An Obama-era regulation requiring stricter government oversight of e-cigarette products, was put on hold by the Food and Drug Administration.
And he's making money from groups looking for foreign policy changes:
Alembik said he will charge $600 per ticket. He expects 700 guests. That’s $420,000. In theory, Alembik said, any leftover proceeds will go to an Israeli charity called The Truth About Israel.

But, Alembik said, Trump’s club will probably keep most of the money. He said he’d recently seen an estimate of the costs. He declined to say what the number was, but said: “My God, they’re expensive. Holy crap.”

“With what Mar-a-Lago charges,” he said, “I don’t think there’s going to be much left over.” Alembik was fine with the idea that he was putting money into the president’s pocket: “Yeah, and the other ones are taking money out of his pocket,” he said, meaning the charities that canceled after Charlottesville.
posted by peeedro at 4:42 PM on September 17 [34 favorites]


The Chronicle of Higher Education: Speaking at Berkeley With Milo Yiannopoulos? It’s News to Them (via):
Yet several of the people on the list say they will not be speaking at the event, and in some cases weren’t even contacted about speaking there. Among them is Charles Murray, the scholar at the center of a fracas in March at Middlebury College that left a professor injured.

"The inclusion of my name in the list of speakers was done without my knowledge or permission," Mr. Murray wrote in an email to The Chronicle. "I will add that I would never under any circumstances appear at an event that included Milo Yiannopoulos."

Asked why he wouldn’t appear with him, Mr. Murray said: "Because he is a despicable asshole."
I'm gonna go ahead and root for injuries in that lover's spat.

Also:
Another, the author Michael Malice, said on his Twitter feed that he would not attend the event. He is listed on The Daily Californian’s website as one of the slated speakers, but not on the Berkeley Free Speech Week website. Mr. Murray’s name had been removed from the event website as of Friday afternoon.
Michael Malice? Seriously, writers?
posted by tonycpsu at 4:52 PM on September 17 [25 favorites]


on the one hand, ADAPT right now is working to organize its national meeting next week and do the crazy logistics of getting people with various medical needs there from all over the country, so I wonder how distracted the organization is. On the other hand, ADAPT will be together en masse, and these are people who charged police lines in their wheelchairs and then crawled to senator's office when stairs were in the way, so I imagine the heat from their outrage will power a zillion suns.

The nice thing about being disabled is you get used to having to deal with bullshit every day, whether it's that your own body has decided to create your own personal hell or the salesperson decides he's only going to talk to your companion because if you're in a wheelchair, clearly you lack the wherewithal to negotiate a fucking cell phone agreement.

So I'm worried the country might be worn down by the daily vomit of awful, I have faith that activists like ADAPT folks are going to be back and madder and badder.
posted by angrycat at 4:54 PM on September 17 [49 favorites]


Michael Malice? Seriously, writers?

It's not his real name. A nom de loon, if you will.
posted by Faint of Butt at 5:17 PM on September 17 [9 favorites]


Michael Malice? Seriously, writers?

The event has since been rebranded Listen Without Malice
posted by Jon Mitchell at 5:21 PM on September 17 [6 favorites]


I'm not watching the Emmys, but apparently they just had Sean Spicer show up [video] (longer clip, lower quality), like the actual Sean Spicer, to announce that "this will be the largest audience to witness an Emmys period. Both in person and around the world."

Even though the tone was attempting to be mocking, what if we didn't reward people for being utter and complete lying assholes by putting them on prime-time TV? Just a thought.
posted by zachlipton at 5:24 PM on September 17 [73 favorites]


I am watching the Emmys (and therefore SHOCKED that zach isn't) and I am super-annoyed by that. No thank you to assists on his image rehab tour.
posted by lalex at 5:27 PM on September 17 [9 favorites]


Maybe Melissa McCarthy refused, so they had to go with their second choice.
posted by Faint of Butt at 5:29 PM on September 17 [7 favorites]


It's big derision for a man called Malice.
posted by kirkaracha at 5:32 PM on September 17 [11 favorites]


I oppose the cutesy rehabilitation of the disgusting Spicey's image with every fiber of my being. I will not even look at any of his appearances. He should be seeking penance, literally (as a Catholic) and figuratively, not making the rounds of talk shows.
posted by Miko at 5:32 PM on September 17 [26 favorites]


In 2017 America (like America for most of the 21st Century), "making the rounds of the talk shows" IS, sadly, the current version of "seeking penance".
posted by oneswellfoop at 5:38 PM on September 17 [2 favorites]


I really disagree. It is 100% to ensure the furtherance of his hoped-for lucrative speaking career. That's not penance.
posted by Miko at 5:41 PM on September 17 [18 favorites]


This is the same country that welcomed all the Bush Administration war criminals back with no consequences whatsoever. Dick Cheney, Paul Wolfowitz, Ari Fietcher, all of them walk free as week speak, and get paid millions every year to sit on boards and give bullshit speeches. There is literally no possible way for a Republican to be held accountable, no matter what crimes they committed while in office.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:46 PM on September 17 [18 favorites]


Absolutely no penance is required for the FauxNews branch of The Media, but a round of smiling at Stephen Colbert while he makes fun of you to your face is the easy way to weasel your way back into the good graces of those who, two years ago, considered Donald Trump a Comical Figure in both Politics and Business.

Jay Rosen's latest writing, on "The Normalization of Trump" is mostly perceptive but it misses the obvious fact that this 'normalization' is learning to treat him the same way they did when he wasn't President.
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:01 PM on September 17 [4 favorites]


Dipshit "moderates" like Jimmy Kimmel and Ellen were only too happy once George W. Bush put on his absent minded grandpa routine, painted some completely shit pictures, and sold a book to give a pittance back to the people he needlessly sent to war. Dipshit "moderates" on CNN will coo and wipe their brows whenever trump does something that has the faintest hint of 'presidential', because it means they can get back to covering the presidency like normal. Those same dipshit "moderates" are going to rehabilitate Sean Spicer into a comical blowhard, instead of a fucking fascist mouthpiece who basically threatened the very existence of the press from one of the most powerful non-elected positions that interfaces with journalists. I bet a lot of these dipshit "moderates" are all about a fake veneration of the three sentences of Martin Luther King that they pretend to know, but here's a quote they should take to heart,

"First, I must confess that over the last few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to 'order' than to justice..."

All of these people don't want justice or equality. They want things to go back to normal.
posted by codacorolla at 6:15 PM on September 17 [63 favorites]


New palace intrigue from the NYT: Trump Lawyers Clash Over How Much to Cooperate With Russia Inquiry. Pullquotes:
Tension between the two comes as life in the White House is shadowed by the investigation. Not only do Mr. Trump, Mr. Kushner and Mr. McGahn all have lawyers, but so do other senior officials. The uncertainty has grown to the point that White House officials privately express fear that colleagues may be wearing a wire to surreptitiously record conversations for Mr. Mueller.
and
The friction escalated in recent days after Mr. Cobb was overheard by a reporter for The New York Times discussing the dispute during a lunchtime conversation at a popular Washington steakhouse. Mr. Cobb was heard talking about a White House lawyer he deemed “a McGahn spy” and saying Mr. McGahn had “a couple documents locked in a safe” that he seemed to suggest he wanted access to. He also mentioned a colleague whom he blamed for “some of these earlier leaks,” and who he said “tried to push Jared out,” meaning Jared Kushner, the president’s son-in-law and senior adviser, who has been a previous source of dispute for the legal team.
OVERHEARD BY A REPORTER AT A STEAKHOUSE. Only the best people, y'all.
posted by lalex at 6:16 PM on September 17 [56 favorites]


I'm still dealing with the notion that Spicer is a real person who can exist outside of the White House. I assumed he was a golem sewn together from old flour sacks or something.
posted by Horkus at 6:17 PM on September 17 [13 favorites]


"Mr. Cobb" did that shit on purpose. Come on.
posted by rhizome at 6:18 PM on September 17 [7 favorites]


This is your regular reminder to call your members of congress. The GOP thinks they might have the votes to pass ACA repeal. Call tonight and leave a voice mail so that staffers start the week innundated with angry constituent messages. Do you have all Democrat MOCs? Contact anyone you know in red states and ask them to call their MOCs. Give them phone numbers and scripts to make it easy.

32 million Americans will lose insurance if this bill passes. Medicaid as we know it will end. Insurance companies will be able to raise their rates at any point if you get sick. (Think about that, you get, say, a cancer diagnosis and have to worry that the insurance company will immediately make your insurance unaffordable.) Pre-existing conditions protections will be gone.
posted by mcduff at 6:19 PM on September 17 [32 favorites]


These people are fucking morons.
posted by zachlipton at 6:23 PM on September 17 [3 favorites]


I dunno, I feel that Spicer openly mocking his previous behaviours reinforces that this entire administration has been a joke, a farce, and completely outside of norms.

The wink and nudge at SNL helps a little; I'd love to hear Melissa McCarthy's reasoned take, after seeing her facial reaction.

nevermind. gah.
Former White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer has warmed up to Melissa McCarthy's Emmy-winning portrayal of him on "Saturday Night Live." So much so that he thinks he deserves a piece of the gilded pie.

When asked earlier this week if McCarthy owes him part of her award, Spicer grinned and said, "I think we should share."
posted by porpoise at 6:32 PM on September 17


> I dunno, I feel that Spicer openly mocking his previous behaviours reinforces that this entire administration has been a joke, a farce, and completely outside of norms.
This is the kind of thing described by Baudrillardian fascination and deterrence which has been constantly mocked by Anglo-Saxons as the typical French bullshit culpable for the destruction of the polite and rational society.
posted by runcifex at 6:46 PM on September 17 [8 favorites]


The uncertainty has grown to the point that White House officials privately express fear that colleagues may be wearing a wire to surreptitiously record conversations for Mr. Mueller.

This made me smile.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 6:48 PM on September 17 [44 favorites]


The friction escalated in recent days after Mr. Cobb was overheard by a reporter for The New York Times discussing the dispute during a lunchtime conversation at a popular Washington steakhouse.

I think I would die of self-disgust and heart attacks if I lunched at the kind of places these people do their loud big man talking, but knowing that I actually could go and spend some afternoons at the bars of gross awful importantman steakfactories and come away with some exciting state secrets is making it so hard not to. there can't be very many different places this could be. I bet I have been to work drinks wherever this is and I bet it was awful.

best part is that shitty DC restaurants are LOUD and it is not hard to get some sound camouflage if you must do your secret-telling at the table in the open, but some guys like YELLING about their important job hassles to be overheard, so that everybody knows they have a hard job doing important stuff. and you know that's what this was.
posted by queenofbithynia at 6:51 PM on September 17 [6 favorites]


I'm just bemused/agog/awestruck by the huge machine this White House is, and so much bigger than any prior one.

Every one of the staff has a personal lawyer, and each of the staff's personal lawyers have their own lawyers.

And all of the PR people flocking like remora.
posted by yesster at 6:51 PM on September 17 [5 favorites]


I'm still dealing with the notion that Spicer is a real person who can exist outside of the White House. I assumed he was a golem sewn together from old flour sacks or something.
posted by Horkus at 10:17 AM on September 18 [1 favorite +] [!]


From Wikipedia's Sean Spicer article, bolding mine:
"From 2000 to 2001, Spicer was the communications director on the House Government Reform Committee, and from 2001 to 2002 he was director of incumbent retention at the National Republican Congressional Committee (NRCC).[36]
...
From 2003 to 2005,[36] Spicer was the communications director and spokesman for the House Budget Committee.[3] He subsequently was the communications director for the Republican Conference of the U.S. House of Representatives, and then, from 2006 to 2009, was the assistant for media and public affairs at the Office of the United States Trade Representative in President George W. Bush's administration.[37] He wore an Easter bunny suit during the White House Easter Egg Rolls.

In February 2011, Spicer became the communications director of the Republican National Committee.[41] At the RNC, he enlarged the organization's social media operations, built an in-house TV production team, and created a rapid response program to reply to attacks.[37] In February 2015, he was given an additional role, as chief strategist for the party.[42]
...
From 2009 to 2011, Spicer was a partner at Endeavor Global Strategies, a public relations firm he co-founded to represent foreign governments and corporations with business before the U.S. government.[39] His clients included the government of Colombia, which was then seeking a free trade agreement with the U.S. amid public criticism of its human rights record.[40]"
His job is literally to be the cute face of evil. A bunny suit FFS. An expert for hire in the pernicious hijacking of disarming cuteness for war criminals, bigots, and corrupt politicians.

Trump broke him like Trump breaks everyone, but Spicer is by no means bad at his job. He's an evil golem made from sewn-together sacks of corgis and baby skunks. Drink Not the Koolaid.
posted by saysthis at 6:54 PM on September 17 [18 favorites]


"Mr. Cobb" did that shit on purpose. Come on.

you know it does occur to me, do all these big-eared NYT reporters know all the various lawyers by sight as well as by name? They might, but then again they might not. some hero with a big boxy suit and some jowls and a loud baritone ought to go have an experiment lunch with a friend and yell some "secrets" back and forth, addressing each other by whatever names seem exciting this week. see what's in the papers the next day. for science.
posted by queenofbithynia at 6:54 PM on September 17 [10 favorites]


(of course I meant, "follow the logic,[comma] people." I have no affiliation with The Logic People, which is the best Children's Television Workshop show from the 70s that was never made.)
posted by Horkus


I'm big enough to admit I actually Googled that.
posted by BS Artisan at 7:00 PM on September 17 [18 favorites]


you know it does occur to me, do all these big-eared NYT reporters know all the various lawyers by sight as well as by name?

I think they recognized Ty Cobb because he looks like a ice cream salesman from 1910
posted by theodolite at 7:06 PM on September 17 [54 favorites]




you know it does occur to me, do all these big-eared NYT reporters know all the various lawyers by sight as well as by name?

Any DC reporters who don't know what Ty Cobb looks like should be fired immediately. He's kind of distinctive looking.
posted by adamg at 7:10 PM on September 17 [7 favorites]


There's so much to that steakhouse conversation.

1) Pretty incredible that Cobb is apparently unaware of whatever evidence McGahn is hiding in his safe. Top notch legal defense.
2) McGahn is almost certainly a target himself, and if he wasn't he sure is now. Withholding evidence is not going to look good.
3) Why is McGahn making decisions on what documents to produce again? He's at minimum a witness in the investigation, he should not be involved whatsoever in the legal defense.
4) WHY ARE YOU DISCUSSING CLIENT MATTERS IN PUBLIC. Forget that this is the biggest case in American history, you don't discuss particulars of an auto insurance settlement in the middle of a fucking public restaurant. This would get any lawyer in America suspended for a year if not disbarred.
5) Again, there are documents the White House is withholding, intentionally. Paging Mr. Mueller, subpoena on aisle "these people are morons".
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:49 PM on September 17 [27 favorites]


WHY ARE YOU DISCUSSING CLIENT MATTERS IN PUBLIC. Forget that this is the biggest case in American history, you don't discuss particulars of an auto insurance settlement in the middle of a fucking public restaurant. This would get any lawyer in America suspended for a year if not disbarred.

But if you don't talk about the case over dinner then how can you bill Trump for the meal as an expense?
posted by dis_integration at 8:14 PM on September 17 [18 favorites]


hahaha omg from NYT reporter Kenneth Vogel: "Here's a photo of Ty Cobb & John Dowd casually & loudly discussing details of Russia investigation at @BLTSteakDC while I sat at next table."

only the best people only the best people only the be
posted by lalex at 8:17 PM on September 17 [64 favorites]


He's an evil golem made from sewn-together sacks of corgis and baby skunks. Drink Not the Koolaid.

These people have powerful ju-ju. They make inhuman seem human. They are especially powerful at using the isolating effect of media to project acceptable, even likeable images while staunchly supporting positions and ideas that, if naked in front of you, would have you reaching for the nearest blaster ray or emergency airlock purge lever..

The monster is not behind the rabbit It is the rabbit.
posted by Devonian at 8:17 PM on September 17 [6 favorites]


Twitter suggests another possibility, if an unethical lawyer wanted to leak something to the NYT about the most sensitive investigation in history, talking really loudly at a restaurant about it could maybe(?) be less unethical than simply disclosing it? But that picture really seems like it was as stupid as first reported, not a plot to help the country by betraying client confidence.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:21 PM on September 17 [3 favorites]


so like...the "safe" isn't a metaphor, like "lockbox"? It's a real safe with real documents?
posted by lalex at 8:22 PM on September 17 [4 favorites]


I took it to mean literally a physical safe, this is the fucking D-team, they don't seem capable of using Veracrypt. Although seeing McGahn try to hide behind encryption like he's a darknet drug dealer in face of Mueller subpoena would be pretty incredible, if maybe not an ideal precedent.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:27 PM on September 17 [2 favorites]


This menu from BLT Prime, the BLT resto located in the Trump hotel (surprisingly, not the one they were eating at, which is BLT steak just a block or so from the white house. Had they dined at BLT Prime in Trump hotel it could've been like some kind of ouroboros of corruption where you bill the client for dinner which the client pays back to himself), this menu, I tell you, has, instead of a seafood category, a section titled OCEAN MEATS. Come to Trump International, dine at BLT Prime, home of OCEAN MEATS. Reality is just a markov chain algorithm now isn't it?
posted by dis_integration at 8:28 PM on September 17 [37 favorites]


I dunno, I feel that Spicer openly mocking his previous behaviours reinforces that this entire administration has been a joke, a farce, and completely outside of norms.

I think it completely undercuts any sort of critique of the trump administration, because it says, 'so long as you smile and play along, we'll rehabilitate you for playing at fascism.' Remember what Sean Spicer did, outside of the SNL jokes: he knowingly lied, he propagated trump's white supremacist agenda, and (most importantly) he did everything he could to silence the American press. Jenny Slate puts it as such, "If u think that Spicer should be allowed to participate in anything but an apology, you really dont understand anything&im bummed about you." When you support fascism, you should not be able to easily get back into the good graces of so-called liberal society just by winking a little bit, and allowing him to do so sends the message 'what you did isn't all that bad.'
posted by codacorolla at 8:28 PM on September 17 [59 favorites]


this menu, I tell you, has, instead of a seafood category, a section titled OCEAN MEATS.

Arby's should sue.
posted by rewil at 8:42 PM on September 17 [5 favorites]


Hey, remember when Sean Spicer told an Indian woman that she was lucky "we" allowed her "here?" And no, he wasn't talking about how lucky she was to be in a f*ing Apple Store.

She had a thousand times more bravery than any of the quislings who put together the Emmys.
posted by Yowser at 8:45 PM on September 17 [29 favorites]


Hey, remember when Sean Spicer told an Indian woman that she was lucky "we" allowed her "here?" And no, he wasn't talking about how lucky she was to be in a f*ing Apple Store.

This, exactly. It's easy to reduce Spicer to jokes, but his vileness isn't his incompetence - it's the policies and beliefs (whether he holds them sincerely or not) that he was willing to put his name behind.

Put another way, the only reason that Sean Spicer is able to go on the Emmies and goof it up with millionaires about his behavior is because he was bad at it. The next group (let's hope it's not this one, or maybe let's hope that there is no next) that comes along and improves on trumpism with competent media will not be a laughing matter, and I'm worried what this complacency in so-called liberal outlets means for their coming. Remember that the next wave of Republicans is the 4chan wave - people with demonstrated beliefs in open white supremacy, and a certain talent with shaping a message.
posted by codacorolla at 8:52 PM on September 17 [11 favorites]


@Renato Mariotti: THREAD: What does today's @nytimes story about clashes within the Trump legal team tell us?

The whole thread is interesting and worth reading but here's his take on the, um, safe:
3/ The first and most obvious question is: what does McGahn have locked in his safe that Cobb wants?
4/ My best guess is the initial "fire Comey" letter penned by Stephen Miller at Trump's direction, with McGahn's comments and deletions.
5/ As discussed here [link to previous thread], that letter (and his testimony) could be the most important evidence in the obstruction case
posted by lalex at 8:54 PM on September 17 [11 favorites]


I don't see what's wrong with calling it "ocean meat". The Korean word for "fish" is literally "water meat".

and bulgogi is literally just "fire meat"
posted by anem0ne at 9:03 PM on September 17 [9 favorites]


How specific does a demand have to be, to justify a warrant? Is it enough to say "We have reason to believe relevant information is being concealed from the investigation in Mr McGahn's safe?"
posted by Coventry at 9:05 PM on September 17


John McCain on the Comey Hearing: "It Was a Colossal Screw-Up"
Just moments before McCain was due to take the microphone, Graham realized he had a question he wanted McCain to ask Comey. Graham, who was watching the hearing from his Senate office, instructed a staffer to deliver a message to McCain in the hearing room.
...
Though McCain might have reverted to the questions he’d prepared, he said he pressed on out of a sense of loyalty and respect to Graham. “I can’t tell you how important our relationship is, and I knew that this must be important. So I started out trying to remember what was on the app, and, anyway, to make a long story short, I fucked it up.”
posted by kirkaracha at 9:05 PM on September 17 [1 favorite]


John McCain on the Comey Hearing: "It Was a Colossal Screw-Up"

omg now we're doing oral histories of congressional hearings? because I am HERE for that
posted by lalex at 9:07 PM on September 17 [15 favorites]


But while McCain was reading the message from Graham—aides said that it was an email, not an app—the screen on the phone the staffer had handed him went black. Without a passcode, McCain couldn’t reopen it to keep reading.

John McCain calls emails "apps" and was helplessly fucking around with a phone moments before questioning Comey. Seems about right
posted by theodolite at 9:14 PM on September 17 [10 favorites]




I don't see what's wrong with calling it "ocean meat"

It's presumably pandering to a kind of idiot who worries that ordering "seafood" is not manly; that's probably a type they know well at Trumpaurants.
posted by thelonius at 9:16 PM on September 17 [2 favorites]


The description of the Zinke report wouldn't look out of place in the film Silent Running.
posted by Yowser at 9:20 PM on September 17


VIRGINIA HOUSE ELECTIONS - HD 46-50

intro
1-5
6-10
11-15
16-20
21-25
26-30
31-35
36-40
41-45

===

46th District
Currently Dem seat
R cand: none
D cand: Charniele Herring (incumbent)

DC suburbs (Alexandria), 51.7% white. Incumbent first elected in 2009 special. No R candidate in 2013, D won 67-28 in 2015. Clinton won district 78-18.

===

47th District
Currently Dem seat
R cand: none
D cand: Patrick Hope (incumbent)

DC suburbs (Arlington), 76.4% white. Incumbent first elected in 2009. No R candidate in 2013 or 2015. Clinton won district 77-17.

===

48th District
Currently Dem seat
R cand: none
D cand: R.C. Sullivan Jr. (incumbent)

DC suburbs (Arlington), 80.4% white. Incumbent first elected in 2014 special. No R candidate in 2013, D won 62-38 in 2014 special, no R candidate in 2015. Clinton won district 72-22.

===

49th District
Currently Dem seat
R cand: Adam Roosevelt
D cand: Alfonso Lopez (incumbent)

DC suburbs (Arlington), 80.4% white. Incumbent first elected in 2011. No R candidate in 2013 or 2015. Clinton won district 80-15.

===

50th District
Currently GOP seat
R cand: Jackson Miller (incumbent)
D cand: Lee Carter

DC suburbs (Manassas), 62.0% white. Incumbent first elected in 2006 special. R won 55-45 in 2013 and 59-41 in 2015. Clinton won district 54-40. Flippable Potential district.

===

Phew, half done! Next time: 51-55
posted by Chrysostom at 9:21 PM on September 17 [33 favorites]


It's presumably pandering to a kind of idiot who worries that ordering "seafood" is not manly; that's probably a type they know well at Trumpaurants.

I suppose that's true, but their seafood chowder doesn't seem to come with crackers. I feel like every customer at that restaurant should be served crackers.

Also, if it's super manly, I don't know why they're even giving the option about anything browner than "medium rare".
posted by anem0ne at 9:27 PM on September 17 [4 favorites]


Also, if it's super manly, I don't know why they're even giving the option about anything browner than "medium rare".

I got nothing on that.
posted by thelonius at 9:57 PM on September 17 [2 favorites]


"I spoke with President Moon of South Korea last night. Asked him how Rocket Man is doing. Long gas lines forming in North Korea. Too bad!"

William Shatner Performs 'Rocket Man' (1978)
posted by christopherious at 10:01 PM on September 17 [1 favorite]


Jim Wright of Stonekettle Station offers his caustic take on Trump's supporters: Ship of Fools
[…] these are the same drooling cross-eyed dipshits who think a billionaire New York real-estate developer who builds tacky casinos and swanky country clubs staffed by foreign workers, a Reality TV host whose shows are an hour-long fuck-fest of tits and ass and self-serving backstabbing narcissism portrayed by the personification of some backwoods West Virginia county fair demolition derby cheered on by drunken rednecks in cow shit spackled overalls, married to a string of vapid trophy wives, buoyed up incestuous nepotism, and surrounded by a scurrying host of toadies, sycophants, ass kissers, discredited fringe political hacks, cashiered generals, Wall Street crooks, war profiteers and foreign interests, a guy who has never shown the least charity or nobility or degree of compassion, a guy who daily craps in a golden toilet, yeah, that guy, is actually going to look out for their interests from his penthouse windows.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 10:17 PM on September 17 [49 favorites]


Screw William Shatner. (SL A.V. Club)
posted by Lyme Drop at 10:17 PM on September 17 [9 favorites]


A photographer for the St. Louis Post Dispatch reports that "Police just chanted "Whose Streets, our streets" on Tucker Blvd after making arrests."
posted by zachlipton at 10:22 PM on September 17 [28 favorites]


That would literally be a police state then.
posted by Joe in Australia at 10:28 PM on September 17 [85 favorites]


This is fine.
posted by darkstar at 10:38 PM on September 17 [5 favorites]


Flames. Flames on the side of my face.
posted by rhizome at 11:00 PM on September 17 [13 favorites]


I don't think it's cool to invite Sean Spicer or anyone else from the regime to participate in the public sphere. Not even as a punchline. That humor is a solace for people who are hurt and endangered by this regime. I don't care if Spicer wants to show he's a "good sport."
posted by scaryblackdeath at 11:24 PM on September 17 [26 favorites]


Trump delenda est
posted by kirkaracha at 11:36 PM on September 17 [8 favorites]


Someone linked Zinke's draft report on the monument "review" to the Washington Post.

Absolutely disgusting. There are days, and this is one of them, when I want to let the Trump states secede as they wish. I live in a state that is net-giving to Trump country and they sure as hell don't give much back. I also note that every target of this Trump atrocity is west of the Rockies and that aside from WaPo, none of the east coast media I dutifully fund each month seem to care.

I'm starting to think that my $$ to NYT, TPM, etc. are wasted, and I'm interested in funding journalists in the Western US. If you have recommendations, LMK.
posted by SakuraK at 11:59 PM on September 17 [4 favorites]


Not journalists but follow Southern Utah Wilderness Alliance. Traveling and on mobile so no link, but you can find them easily. They're a worthy source of wilderness and public land use news and they have a top notch legal team. Won many victories for wilderness protection, and were a constant pain for the Bush Administration and for the Utah state government. Definitely deserving of donations in my view. They'll be on the front lines for the monument fights.
posted by Teegeeack AV Club Secretary at 1:18 AM on September 18 [10 favorites]


Texas Tribune. Non-profit, just saw an impressive and huge series they did last year in conjunction with Pro Publica on Houston's hurricane vulnerability. For that matter, Pro Publica.
posted by kemrocken at 1:22 AM on September 18 [8 favorites]


A photographer for the St. Louis Post Dispatch reports that "Police just chanted "Whose Streets, our streets" on Tucker Blvd after making arrests."

No, goddammit, they're not. We pay your fucking salary. You work for us. They're OUR streets.
posted by greermahoney at 1:57 AM on September 18 [38 favorites]


Trump Menu: GARLICKY RED COAT PRAWNS 16

"Red coats?" Treason on the menu...
posted by mikelieman at 2:07 AM on September 18 [3 favorites]


> You work for us.
I'm afraid a significant chunk of the populace would think the "work" should include upholding white hegemony.
posted by runcifex at 2:23 AM on September 18 [3 favorites]


Does BLT not serve BLT's
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 2:29 AM on September 18 [5 favorites]


America needs therapy.
posted by saulgoodman at 3:41 AM on September 18 [11 favorites]


Lie down on the couch! What does that mean?
You're a nut! You're crazy in the coconut!
What does that mean? America needs therapy!
posted by Talez at 4:05 AM on September 18 [26 favorites]




Not gonna link the fucking Daily Caller, but...

Tucker: Trump Thinks TV More Accurately Reveals The Public’s Beliefs Than Polls Do
“I know that he watches a lot of television. I know because I’ve talked to him about it at length, that he’s really interested in television, both the mechanics of it — he knows a lot about ratings and lighting, and producing and guest booking,” Carlson said on “The Jamie Weinstein Show.”

Trump was the executive producer and star of the highly rated reality show “The Apprentice,” and has tweeted about cable news throughout his campaign and presidency. However, Trump claimed in a July tweet, “I have very little time for watching T.V.”

Carlson told Weinstein that Trump “believes that television is a pretty clear window into what people care about. He believes that television producers, especially of highly rated shows, understand what the public is interested in — what it fears, what it wants, what it loves. And so TV programming in some ways is a more accurate reflection of the public mood than polling,” Carlson said. “That’s his view, he said it to me. And that’s one of the reasons he watches a lot of television. Whether that’s true or not is an entirely debatable point, but he believes if you want to know where the country is, watch TV.”
And in 2018 news:

House Democrats Break Campaign Fundraising Record
The campaign arm of House Democrats has posted its highest off-year August fundraising haul ever, the group told NBC News. While their Republican counterparts haven't yet released their August results, the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee (DCCC) has outraised Republicans each of the three previous months — a result Democrats say bodes well for their prospects of winning the House in the 2018 midterm elections.

"With the House in play, another record-breaking month of fundraising for the DCCC is a clear sign that the grassroots energy behind House Democrats is constantly growing stronger," said Tyler Law, a spokesman for the committee. "Given Speaker [Paul] Ryan's failure to govern with unified Republican control of Washington, it's understandable that vulnerable House Republicans are opting for retirement while we are recruiting incredible candidates deep into the map." ...

The DCCC raised $6.26 million in August, compared to $4.15 million for August 2015, the last comparable year before a midterm election. Overall, the DCCC has raised $72.46 million in 2017. And the committee touted its online fundraising, which it says has totaled $31.26 million for the year so far, including $2.4 million last month.
posted by chris24 at 4:20 AM on September 18 [13 favorites]


Goddamnit, it really feels like we're sliding towards something bad here. Sorry to be so vague and alarmist, but I really don't like this trend towards normalization. See this year's Emmy's, causal Nazism, and maybe fifteen hundred other fucking things.
posted by angrycat at 4:34 AM on September 18 [31 favorites]


Man, if that's true about DCCC fundraising, maybe they could chill out with the constant ridiculously alarmist emails.
posted by rp at 4:37 AM on September 18 [14 favorites]


Tucker: Trump Thinks TV More Accurately Reveals The Public’s Beliefs Than Polls Do

Actually, if this is true, then this may be a GOOD thing when you consider the shows that the Emmys rewarded last night:

* A show about the evils of a fundamentalist dystopia won big.
* A show about the perils of domestic abuse also won big.
* The winning writers included three POCs and one LGBT person.
* An African-American man and a Pakistani man each also won awards.
* A guy whose biggest recent career smash consists of making fun of Trump was also rewarded.
* An hour-long show featuring a love story about a same-sex, biracial relationship where the leads will live happily forever after, LITERALLY, won for "best TV movie".
* A show that dissects the weeks' news and often skewers Trump and his campaign won "best variety or talk show."

....I think it IS right that Tv reflects the public's beliefs, actually. We are multicultural, we support love for all, we believe violence is bad and we think Trump is a jerkwad.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:57 AM on September 18 [24 favorites]


he means "Duck Dynasty" and Fox
posted by thelonius at 5:00 AM on September 18 [15 favorites]


Seconding Texas Tribune. It's Texas focused, obviously, but they've done some really great reporting around the border and immigration issues.
posted by threeturtles at 5:33 AM on September 18 [1 favorite]


Twitter suggests another possibility, if an unethical lawyer wanted to leak something to the NYT about the most sensitive investigation in history, talking really loudly at a restaurant about it could maybe(?) be less unethical than simply disclosing it?

Sure, maybe Ty Cobb could be spreading rumors by talking loudly about his client in D.C. steakhouses instead of leaking like a regular D.C. insider, but then again, this is the the top legal mind who got suckered into a lengthy and bizarre e-mail conversation by an Internet prankster.
posted by Doktor Zed at 5:36 AM on September 18 [9 favorites]


Man, if that's true about DCCC fundraising, maybe they could chill out with the constant ridiculously alarmist emails.

On the contrary, it's an indication that they're working. Even if not on you.
posted by Miko at 5:42 AM on September 18 [8 favorites]


If my son and his friends are any indication, the next generation isn't even going to know how to interact other than by trolling and making ambiguous statements that can be interpreted multiple ways and dismissed as just harmless sarcasm when it hurts anyone else's feelings. That's how kids are being socialized today. There's no off-switch to their "just kidding--or am I?"
posted by saulgoodman at 5:43 AM on September 18 [23 favorites]


Actually, if this is true, then this may be a GOOD thing when you consider the shows that the Emmys rewarded last night:

He's judging on ratings, not critical acclaim.
posted by jaduncan at 5:43 AM on September 18 [7 favorites]


If Toddler McShitsaton wants "wins" so badly, why don't we just point out all these handy items in a bulleted list for him (hat tip to peeedro):
  • 27 federal political committees — including Trump’s reelection campaign — have flocked to his properties.
  • He's making money from trade groups representing e-cigarette makers and vape shop owners looking for domestic policy changes
  • he's making money from groups like an Israeli charity called The Truth About Israel - looking for foreign policy changes, who spend $600/ticket at Mar-a-Lago, which "...is so expensive...“I don’t think there’s going to be much left over.”
I mean, winners can't be choosers.
posted by yoga at 5:49 AM on September 18 [2 favorites]


Talez needs a link, because the song makes me happy and I hope it makes you happy, too.
posted by mfu at 5:55 AM on September 18 [3 favorites]


Spicer didn't just get a warm welcome on stage, all those Hollywood liberals were mugging for selfies and beers with him at the after party.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:05 AM on September 18 [12 favorites]


From up above about McCain at the Comey hearings, McCain says about Graham: “I can’t tell you how important our relationship is."

Keep this in mind when you wonder if McCain will vote no on the Graham-Cassidy bill that repeals the ACA. Don't rely on McCain to save us again. Call, fax, email and visit your senators.
posted by mcduff at 6:08 AM on September 18 [39 favorites]


Why would any of the Senators who voted yes on skinny repeal vote no on Graham-Cassidy? If McCain votes yes, it'll pass.
posted by Justinian at 6:22 AM on September 18 [1 favorite]


I mean, I guess Rand Paul could vote no but I feel like he said the same kind of shit about all the previous bills and ended up voting yes?
posted by Justinian at 6:26 AM on September 18 [2 favorites]


Is it just me, or has there been an uptick in tv shows which glorify the military recently? Even up here in Toronto I passed billboards for "The Brave" (IMDB: The complex world of our bravest military heroes who make personal sacrifices while executing the most challenging and dangerous missions behind enemy lines") and "Seal Team" ("The lives of the elite Navy SEALs as they train, plan and execute the most dangerous, high-stakes missions our country can ask") on my way to work this morning. And then there's the upcoming "The Wisdom of the Crowd," which sounds creepy as shit.
posted by The Card Cheat at 6:27 AM on September 18 [6 favorites]


Paul is only going to vote no if it already isn't going to pass. He has as much of a spine as any other member of his party.
posted by cmfletcher at 6:28 AM on September 18


the wisdom of the crowd makes me hoot with laughter because that precious little phrase will now forever be associated with a shitty police procedural starring jeremy piven; which, frankly, is a better fate than it deserves
posted by entropicamericana at 6:31 AM on September 18 [1 favorite]


> Spicer didn't just get a warm welcome on stage, all those Hollywood liberals were mugging for selfies and beers with him at the after party.

Wow, that's gross. Remember that the next time you see these people at one of their for-a-good-cause circle jerks.
posted by The Card Cheat at 6:35 AM on September 18 [4 favorites]


Been stuck in Hurricane Imra crap all week (fine, just power out and annoyed) but here:
Donald J. Trump
Sep 16 (2 days ago)
Reply
to [lyingpotus]@[customURL].com.

Images are not displayed. Display images below - Always display images from contact@action.gop.com

Friend,

It’s time to simplify the tax code. By doing so, we will boost consumer spending, encourage savings and investment, and maximize American economic growth.

So it’s important we get it done right.

That’s why, as a hardworking American, I’d like to know what you think.

Please take a moment to share your input on our country’s financial future by taking my Official Tax Reform Survey today.

SHARE YOUR INPUT

We’re getting to work on one of the country’s biggest issues, Friend, and I’d really appreciate your thoughts.

Together, we will…
Provide tax relief for middle-class Americans.
Simplify the code and reduce filing complications.
GROW THE AMERICAN ECONOMY!
So please, take just 5 minutes and fill out my Official Tax Reform Survey today.

Thank you,

Trump Signature Headshot
Donald J. Trump

SHARE YOUR INPUT


Paid for by the Republican National Committee
Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.
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You are receiving this email at [lyingpotus]@[customURL].com
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We believe this is an important way to reach our grassroots supporters with the most up-to-date information regarding the efforts of the Republican Party and President Trump, and we’re glad you’re on our team. It’s because of grassroots supporters like you that we will Make America Great Again, and we appreciate your support. Thank you for all that you do!

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posted by tilde at 6:42 AM on September 18 [2 favorites]


That’s why, as a hardworking American, I’d like to know what you think.

Clause order is important.
posted by winna at 6:45 AM on September 18 [27 favorites]


Questions:
Official Tax Reform Survey

In order to achieve the American Dream, Americans must be able to keep more money in their pockets and increase after-tax wages.

We must work to simplify the tax code by reducing the number of income brackets.

We must discourage corporate inversions in order to grow the American economy.

We must make America a globally competitive nation again.

Our plan must be fiscally responsible in order to not add to our already staggering debt.

We must eliminate the "death tax".

We must reduce or eliminate deductions and loopholes that only benefit the very rich.

Simplifying the tax code and cutting every American’s taxes will boost consumer spending while encouraging savings and investment.

We must cut the corporate tax rate and allow the United States to compete internationally.

Corporations must no longer be able to defer taxes on income earned abroad.

Our lower tax rates must also apply to small business, allowing entrepreneurs and freelancers to grow and prosper.

Our lower tax rates will provide a tremendous stimulus for the economy, significant GDP growth, and a huge number of new jobs.

Our tax code overhaul must return power to the states.

We must eliminate the marriage penalty and the Alternative Minimum Tax.

We must allow working parents to deduct childcare expenses for up to four children and elderly dependents.

We must reduce or eliminate the capital gains tax.

We must pass tax reform legislation in order to Make America Great Again!

It's Haterade all the way down.

(answer options:

Strongly Agree
Agree
Disagree
No Opinion
Other, please specify:)
posted by tilde at 6:48 AM on September 18 [1 favorite]


Re US TV and the current environment:

may be a GOOD thing when you consider the shows that the Emmys rewarded last night

Also:
* A gay woman won her 2nd consecutive Emmy for portraying HRC, Kellyanne & Jeff Sessions. (And there's a rumor she does an amazing tRump impression, plz lawd can we see it.)

*Her show won best variety, its head writers were a woman and a gay man.

But yes re: the glut of tRump-lovers police and military shows too. If you google, you'll find articles re the trend. (I just read a piece in a trade like Variety or THR.)
posted by NorthernLite at 6:49 AM on September 18 [1 favorite]


Our tax code overhaul must return power to the states.

This is, like, straight-up "Abolish the IRS and all federal taxation", isn't it.
posted by Etrigan at 6:50 AM on September 18 [10 favorites]


I'm starting to think that my $$ to NYT, TPM, etc. are wasted, and I'm interested in funding journalists in the Western US. If you have recommendations, LMK.

You should check out High Country News.
posted by edeezy at 6:52 AM on September 18 [4 favorites]


Wow tilde, that newsletter is pure heinous garbage. Hope you are ok in the aftermath or Irma.
posted by yoga at 7:04 AM on September 18 [4 favorites]


It’s time to simplify the tax code. [...], encourage savings and investment,

LOW TAXES DON'T ENCOURAGE INVESTMENT. High taxes increases investment because the government will take your money and give it to people who will actually spend it if you don't invest it.
posted by Talez at 7:19 AM on September 18 [20 favorites]


Well, there's a fine point to that:

High taxes on money sitting around encourage investment.

High taxes on money you earn encourage working off the books for cash (or the warm happy feeling of being an idiot for declaring everything and handing over 70% of your total income to the state - ask me how I know).
posted by Dr Dracator at 7:27 AM on September 18


Who watches the Emmys? Is there a boycott for next year? They've shown their real face with all this Spicer business, both on camera and backstage.

And who are the celebrities that took selfies with Spicer? Those photos from a third person are a smudgy mess.
posted by Yowser at 7:33 AM on September 18 [4 favorites]


I mean, low taxes can encourage investment but it's just one leg of an (at least) three legged stool. Without the stimulus spending and low interest rates to go with them, nothing happens.

Who experiences those lower rates are important too.

What in the hell the number of tax brackets has to do with any of that is anyone's guess. Here's mine: It sounds like an obviously intuitive good thing! Fewer tax brackets means simpler and simpler is better when it comes to taxes right?! That gives the GOP cover to lower the top marginal tax rates along with those higher tax brackets.

I've got an even better idea. No tax brackets at all! We just use an equation that, all else being equal, gets us line we want. We'd need someone with more math skills than I have to come up with the equation but you'd just plug your AGI into it and out would pop your tax burden.

All that tax brackets are is a simplification of that equation any way, just derive the equation from the current tax brackets and call it a day. Even if the equation is long and complicated, it'll take about five minutes for there to be a thousand websites that will calculate it for you.

This tax bracket talk is a dog-whistle for a tax cut on the 1%, is what I'm saying.
posted by VTX at 7:41 AM on September 18 [10 favorites]


Wisdom of the Crowds looks like a shameless ripoff of the main concept of Black Mirror, Season 3 Episode 6, but played as a positive instead of a horrible anthology series nightmare scenario.

I could be totally off on that. (I literally have it queued next but haven't had a chance to watch yet. An hour and a half, geeeez)
posted by Yowser at 7:43 AM on September 18


When I see the promos for Wisdom of the Crowd, all I can think of is when Reddit's Boston Bomber sleuths fingered a guy who'd committed suicide several days before the bombing.
posted by dirigibleman at 7:50 AM on September 18 [10 favorites]


Even if the equation is long and complicated, it'll take about five minutes for there to be a thousand websites that will calculate it for you.

Most people (i.e., those with an AGI less than $100K) use the tax table [pdf] to figure their tax liability if they're filing on paper, or it's calculated automatically in tax prep applications if they're filing it electronically.
posted by melissasaurus at 7:50 AM on September 18 [1 favorite]


Fuck. Even campus cops are getting in on things. This video shows some blatant misapplication of force, also known as, ya'know, fucking murder.
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:52 AM on September 18 [6 favorites]


I've got an even better idea. No tax brackets at all! We just use an equation that, all else being equal, gets us line we want. We'd need someone with more math skills than I have to come up with the equation but you'd just plug your AGI into it and out would pop your tax burden.

Here is the form of the equation you want (assuming logarithmic utility for dollars):

tax_owed = (income_dollars - poverty_floor) - ((income_dollars - poverty_floor) ^ (1 - rate))

If you plug in a floor of $10,000 -- meaning that you just don't tax the first $10,000 of anyone's income -- and you set the rate at 2%, then you come pretty close to duplicating the current federal tax rates ... except for the taxes on the top earners, which goes up considerably.
posted by Jonathan Livengood at 7:54 AM on September 18 [9 favorites]


VTX: Exactly, fewer tax brackets is code for flat tax. Racists aren't the only ones with dog whistles.
posted by Horkus at 7:54 AM on September 18 [4 favorites]


"Simplifying the tax code" is a total lie, since tax brackets are far and away the simplest thing about taxation by a country mile.
posted by Yowser at 8:07 AM on September 18 [22 favorites]


Wisdom of the Crowd

I wonder how much of every CBS techno-crime show's budget is dedicated to aluminum furniture, blue LEDs and tiered flooring.
posted by snuffleupagus at 8:09 AM on September 18 [6 favorites]


The other infuriating thing about Spicer showing up at the Emmys is how Colbert will inevitably treat the anger like that's a joke, too.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 8:11 AM on September 18 [2 favorites]


That Georgia Tech video is awful, because it shows how utterly incompetent police whose first instinct is to draw their guns are at de-escalating and/or neutralizing people.

(Also, what asshole called the cops? Fuck them)
posted by Yowser at 8:12 AM on September 18 [5 favorites]


Fuck. Even campus cops are getting in on things. This video shows some blatant misapplication of force, also known as, ya'know, fucking murder.

From the link:

“For members of the community who knew Scout personally, the shock and grief are particularly acute.” the university’s dean of students, John Stein, wrote in a statement obtained by NBC News.

No shit, Stein.
posted by snuffleupagus at 8:12 AM on September 18 [4 favorites]


angrycat Goddamnit, it really feels like we're sliding towards something bad here. Sorry to be so vague and alarmist, but I really don't like this trend towards normalization.

You aren't alarmist, and you're only vague because you're conditioned by society not to use the right words for what you fear:

Fascism.

Despotism.

Authoritarianism.

That's what we're sliding towards. And once started it's hard to stop. And not "we" as in the USA, but "we" as in the entire free world.

For most of history the only governments that existed were despotisms with strong doses of authoritarianism to back them up. Only very recently have we clawed our way out of that pattern in a small handful of wealthy nations. Across most of the planet governments are still mostly despotic and authoritarian.

And many of the places that were once free are swinging away from freedom. It's a planetwide pattern. The more despotic and authoritarian governments are getting even worse, and the places that are free have surges in Fascism and other moves towards authoritarianism and despotism.

We've been trained not to say the word "Fascist" in the USA, just as we've been trained not to say "white supremacist" or "racist. But it's time to dust off those words because they're accurate.

Trump is a giant step towards an authoritarian, nationalist, despotism. Or, in a single word: Fascism. Since this is the USA his form of Fascism involves white supremacy as one of its core tenants, and Christian supremacy as another.

There's no alarmism involved. We're in a bad place and turning things around before they get to the stage where violence is unavoidable is going to be hard, thankless, work.
posted by sotonohito at 8:22 AM on September 18 [104 favorites]


After the Cobb debacle are we taking bets on how long it will be till Cobb gets fired? I'll take the safe wager that Cobb is out on Friday.
posted by Twain Device at 8:49 AM on September 18 [2 favorites]


This menu from BLT Prime, the BLT resto located in the Trump hotel

This took place at BLT Steak, not BLT Prime. I'm pointing this out because BLT Steak is on I street, which is literally next door to the New York Times and "Trump lawyers arguing at Trump restaurant overheard by New York Times reporter" is a different narrative than "Trump lawyers argue at restaurant located next to the New York Times."
posted by Room 641-A at 8:55 AM on September 18 [9 favorites]


My gut on Graham Cassidy is that it's kabuki designed to mollify the base, and that there will be exactly 3 no votes in the end. Because ripping Healthcare from tens of millions is the quickest way to speaker Pelosi, President Sanders and single payer. But my gut has been wrong literally every other time since trump took his escalator ride to hell, so who the fuck knows.
posted by Glibpaxman at 9:02 AM on September 18 [9 favorites]


Well McCain says he may "reluctantly" vote yes this time, of course betraying his call for regular order, because he's John fucking McCain, so where's the third no? And no, it's not Rand Paul. Rand Paul is a liar, he's posturing this time just like last time for attention. He will not be the last vote to allow Obamacare to live.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:08 AM on September 18 [9 favorites]


The Republicans act like they don't plan on ever having elections again, so I doubt electability is on their minds.
posted by Yowser at 9:08 AM on September 18 [15 favorites]


Kabuki is a form of performance art. Let's just call lies lies, and bullshit bullshit.
posted by runcifex at 9:10 AM on September 18 [15 favorites]


I think it'd be best if we used kayfabe to refer to ritualistic performances by politicians that have no actual function but make the pretense of being part of actually governing. Kayfabe is the term used by professional wrestling back in the 1980's and 1990's when they were trying to pretend that it was real rather than a staged performance. It referred to an elaborate structure of lies and acting used to maintain the (transparent) pretense that pro-wrestling involved actual fights between actual rivals rather than actors engaging in proto-reality TV.

There's no need to engage in cultural appropriation and misuse the term kabuki when we have a perfect word already.

Call it what it is: kayfabe.
posted by sotonohito at 9:14 AM on September 18 [36 favorites]


TPM: In First Words To UN, Trump Praises Trump-Branded Condo Next Door
President Donald Trump opened his first remarks at the United Nations Monday by complimenting the Trump-branded property across the street.

“I actually saw great potential right across the street, to be honest with you, and it was only for the reason that the United Nations was here that that turned out to be such a successful project,” he said, immediately after thanking those in attendance at a meeting on UN reform.
...
After Trump won the 2016 election, his transition website...incorrectly claimed that he owned the property, Bloomberg reported. The same publication noted in March that, amid Russian domestic financial turmoil in 2001, Trump World Tower “became a prominent depository of Russian money.”
Also at the UN: Cohn Tells International Officials That US Still Plans To Exit Paris Climate Deal
posted by cjelli at 9:19 AM on September 18 [11 favorites]


I'm pessimistic: I think they'll repeal the ACA because they know that going into the 2018 elections without having done so will hurt them more than being known as the evil scum who stole everyone's healthcare will. Especially if they can vote on a bill that repeals it, but only years down the road so they can claim the victory without having to pay any price.

McCain is dying and cares only about one thing: getting all the immediate attention, TV time, and adulation he can. He doesn't care about his reputation, or legacy, or even anything happening a year or two down the road. He'll vote to repeal because it'll make him feel special and get him lots of attention.

I've been wrong in my political predictions more often than I've been right, but I don't think they can afford to let the ACA survive.

And, of course, once they kill the ACA they can use the money they've "saved" to pay for a tax cut for the upper 0.1%!
posted by sotonohito at 9:24 AM on September 18 [3 favorites]


So ... this is, once again, a hair-on-fire emergency situation for Medicaid?

I'm so exhausted. I guess they're counting on that.
posted by RedOrGreen at 9:27 AM on September 18 [24 favorites]


Call it what it is: kayfabe.

"Pantomime" also works, for the "going through dramatically overblown motions set to music" sense that people like to abuse "kabuki" for. And could pull in interesting historical aspects from various European contexts that might actually have some innate relevance.

"Kayfabe" points up the absurdist role-playing aspect but I think it might give too much credit for reflexive awareness to the politicians, managers and other sundry talking heads involved. Politicans don't intentionally execute heel-turns (except in their opponent's messaging).

Plus seeing politics in that Barthesian/Baudrillard mode makes it easy to excuse oneself from participating entirely, as part of rejecting mass culture or whatever, which doesn't help.
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:28 AM on September 18 [5 favorites]


Sorry if this has been posted recently - is there a one stop shop kind of site that I can post to FB to advertise to friends in red states the necessity of calling?
posted by codacorolla at 9:28 AM on September 18 [1 favorite]


When is the next health care related vote likely to be?
posted by Coventry at 9:29 AM on September 18


Here's another situation where we could use a functioning State Department. I can imagine that the Mandarin Mussolini will handle this powder keg with quiet dignity and grace.
posted by Ber at 9:32 AM on September 18


Trump is a giant step towards an authoritarian, nationalist, despotism. Or, in a single word: Fascism. Since this is the USA his form of Fascism involves white supremacy as one of its core tenants, and Christian supremacy as another.

There's no alarmism involved. We're in a bad place and turning things around before they get to the stage where violence is unavoidable is going to be hard, thankless, work.
Just finished my fall splurge, reading a brand new historical romance when it came out ... and it really hammers home how effed up all this shit is, and how it's the same old shit in a new century. Firebombing and killing people who don't believe what you believe in. It focused on the time after Henry VIII's death and the reign of his daughters and grand nephew(?) and it's the same shit we're doing right now. I'd read the book as an escape from the insanity of "us vs them" but it was just more of the damn same. Good read but not quite the escapism I was looking for. (And he's starting to write his women a bit better ...)
posted by tilde at 9:34 AM on September 18 [4 favorites]


Potemkin Presidency
posted by kirkaracha at 9:34 AM on September 18 [1 favorite]


Sincerely hoping this hasn't already been posted, but it's Suzanne Moore in the Graun re Spicer (and of course Boris Johnson) and nauseating sleb adoration. Always worth a read IMO
posted by Myeral at 9:46 AM on September 18 [1 favorite]


When is the next health care related vote likely to be?

Don't think anything is scheduled yet, but it has to be in the next couple of weeks. Reconciliation expires on September 30.
posted by Surely This at 9:47 AM on September 18 [1 favorite]


I'm betting they keep everything top secret and quiet so as to spring a vote on the 29th.
posted by sotonohito at 9:48 AM on September 18 [4 favorites]


There's a sham hearing scheduled for Sept. 25 (before the Homeland Security and Government Affairs committee, which doesn't even have jurisdiction over a healthcare bill) so it'll be sometime after that and before the expiration of reconciliation authority on Sept. 30.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:49 AM on September 18 [1 favorite]


Coventry: The vote to repeal ACA must be done in the Senate by the end of September. What I've read suggests that it will be toward the end of next week.
posted by mcduff at 9:55 AM on September 18 [1 favorite]


is there a one stop shop kind of site that I can post to FB to advertise to friends in red states the necessity of calling?

Indivisible has a short explainer and simple call script.

Cory Booker has a bulleted list of the bad things about the billas a Facebook-sharable image but he also has this more meme-tastic version with less information, more call to action.

Vox has an article length-explainer.

You can judge your own Facebook audience as to which would be most effective...
posted by OnceUponATime at 10:01 AM on September 18 [34 favorites]


Fuck those people and their "no healthcare for anybody bill." I just called both my senators and that's what I called it when I told them they needed to stop it.

(Well, I told the nice ladies on their staff who answered the local phones, anyway. After I thanked them for all their hard work lately. But both seemed still friendly, so.)
posted by wenestvedt at 10:04 AM on September 18


How about they find a new, less-problematic face for generic issue-publicity than Cory Booker?
posted by rhizome at 10:06 AM on September 18


Heather Landy/Quartz: Roger Ailes’ legacy was perfectly commemorated at the 2017 Emmy awards.

His name was shown, but apparently accompanied by silence. No boos, no cheers, just nothing.
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:08 AM on September 18 [3 favorites]


That means he still has power.
posted by rhizome at 10:09 AM on September 18 [3 favorites]


That means he still has power.

Ailes has achieved Demilich status and will continue to destroy the world as a skull in a dusty jar.
posted by Rust Moranis at 10:13 AM on September 18 [7 favorites]


Ailes has achieved Demilich status and will continue to destroy the world as a skull in a dusty jar.

Black Mirror meets Futurama
posted by Servo5678 at 10:16 AM on September 18 [3 favorites]


Bill Cassidy, the Former Moderate Leading the Last Gasp to Repeal Obamacare
There is no generally circulating theory to explain Cassidy’s reversal. Behavior that can be adequately explained by ignorance usually does not require venality. Few politicians are public policy experts. Cassidy used to believe there was no magic way around the problem of financing health care for people who can’t afford it, a finding that inconveniently put him at odds with his party’s long-standing promises. Now he has probably found a right-wing health care “expert” who has “explained” to him that such a solution actually exists, if you simply transform concepts like state flexibility and innovation into a magic elixir. Whatever the explanation, the brief moral awakening of Bill Cassidy has come to a screeching halt.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:42 AM on September 18 [5 favorites]


Now he has probably found a right-wing health care “expert” who has “explained” to him that such a solution actually exists

i would the explanation came accompanied with a (surprisingly small, considering the human cost that will result) amount of $$$
posted by entropicamericana at 10:46 AM on September 18 [1 favorite]


if you simply transform concepts like state flexibility and innovation into a magic elixir

Also known as Strupo.
posted by darkstar at 10:47 AM on September 18


Doug Ducey, the governor in AZ, just came out in favor of Graham-Cassidy. So, McCain and Flake are probably lost causes.
posted by Weeping_angel at 10:51 AM on September 18 [13 favorites]


How the hell is this happening?
posted by schadenfrau at 10:55 AM on September 18 [9 favorites]


Fuck.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 10:57 AM on September 18


All my reps are blue. I don't even know what to ask for when I call except "please shut down the Senate."
posted by schadenfrau at 10:59 AM on September 18 [31 favorites]


Regarding the uptick in the particular brand of out-and-proud racism we've been enjoying since November: I just started Ibrahim Kendi's Stamped from the Beginning: The Definitive History of Racist Ideas in America.

I'm still at the colonial era part of the book, but Kendi's main thesis is that historically, racist policies and institutions in the United States are more often the cause of racial bigotry, not the effect. That is, when governments and societies formally make space for (or, worse, codify) racist ideas, citizens rise to (sink to?) the occasion by adopting more racist attitudes than they otherwise would.

I need to read more to see why my current assumption—that racial prejudice is a tribal, psychological feedback loop kind of phenomenon, and speculating about its causes is essentially a chicken-or-egg exercise,—is not shared by Kendi, but picking up this book has really got me thinking about the colossal damage at the everyday, individual level that Trump's policies and pandering are making space for. Shit is scary.
posted by Rykey at 11:02 AM on September 18 [13 favorites]


@schadenfrau Likewise. And that's exactly what I do.
posted by Emmy Rae at 11:04 AM on September 18 [1 favorite]


Late to the party, but another good western-based news source is Reveal, the rechristened online and broadcast arm of the Center for Investigative Reporting. I think it's the oldest non-profit news organization in the country. It's now national but has a long history of California-centered pieces, and just this week delivered this long take on how Trump cronies are wrecking the American dream of homeownership.
Disclosure, a couple of friends are editors there.
posted by martin q blank at 11:04 AM on September 18 [10 favorites]


All my reps are blue. I don't even know what to ask for when I call except "please shut down the Senate."

I'm in the same boat. Maybe I should suggest that, if Graham-Cassidy comes to a vote, Sen. Van Hollen could sneak out into the hallway and pull the fire alarm.
posted by Faint of Butt at 11:04 AM on September 18 [14 favorites]


All my reps are blue. I don't even know what to ask for when I call except "please shut down the Senate."

I've been saying "Please use any procedural measures you can think of to prevent it from coming to a vote."
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:05 AM on September 18 [21 favorites]


Blue state people: please consider contacting friends and family with GOP senators and educate them about this threat to our healthcare. I've found my friends have been very thankful for scripts and phone numbers. Make it easy for people to speak up.
posted by mcduff at 11:06 AM on September 18 [9 favorites]


Pepe the Frog’s Creator Goes Legally Nuclear Against the Alt-Right
The artist's lawyers have taken legal action against the alt-right. They have served cease and desist orders to several alt-right personalities and websites including Richard Spencer, Mike Cernovich, and the r/the_Donald subreddit. In addition, they have issued Digital Millennium Copyright Act takedown requests to Reddit, Amazon, YouTube, and Twitter, notifying them that use of Pepe by the alt-right on their platforms is copyright infringement. The message is to the alt-right is clear—stop using Pepe the Frog or prepare for legal consequences.
posted by jocelmeow at 11:07 AM on September 18 [70 favorites]


ALSO, what the fuck are these people being promised that they're flipping on something that's even more unpopular than the last thing? What the fuck is happening?
posted by schadenfrau at 11:09 AM on September 18 [32 favorites]


They have probably been promised some shiny trinket or other as well as not being crucified in the right wing media/cut off from RNC funds.
posted by jaduncan at 11:10 AM on September 18 [2 favorites]


schadenfrau:
"ALSO, what the fuck are these people being promised that they're flipping on something that's even more unpopular than the last thing? What the fuck is happening?"
Sudden fear of a universal health care planet?
posted by charred husk at 11:10 AM on September 18 [7 favorites]


what the fuck are these people being promised that they're flipping on something that's even more unpopular than the last thing?

Loss of funding, and being targeted by a Koch-funded opponent in their next primary, if they don't toe the line.
posted by Coventry at 11:12 AM on September 18 [4 favorites]


ALSO, what the fuck are these people being promised that they're flipping on something that's even more unpopular than the last thing? What the fuck is happening?

Assorted possibilities:

1) The Senate is a virtual lock to stay Republican in 2018, so they figure whatever electoral consequences they suffer for this will be minor.
2) They're more afraid of primary challengers who threaten their own personal power than of the GOP as a whole taking a beating.
3) They don't plan on free and fair elections in 2018, even beyond the gerrymandering issue for the House (voting rights crackdowns, etc).
4) They really want to kill people, and are willing to pay a price for it.

The longer this goes on, the more I start to believe #4. If they weren't rich/privileged enough to run for Congress, I wonder how many of these assholes would be the subjects of true-crime stories.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 11:13 AM on September 18 [17 favorites]


Millions of Americans will lose insurance, and of those, a significant number will die. I've let my solidly-blue-state representatives know that if this legislation passes while they are physically present, i.e. because they have not been bodily dragged from the chamber for trying everything in their power to prevent this from happening, I will consider their efforts insufficient.
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 11:13 AM on September 18 [24 favorites]


If they pass a healthcare repeal prepare yourself for all the think pieces claiming Trump is a genius for cozying up to Chuck and Nancy to spur action out of the republicans in congress.
posted by peeedro at 11:15 AM on September 18 [10 favorites]


Giving power to the States is the opposite of what's needed. Georgia is going to kill my brother by restricting Medicaid; they are halfway there already. We need the Federal government to protect us from the mediocre ideologues, who have no business deciding anything outside their car dealership or small town law practice, that make up most state governments.
posted by thelonius at 11:15 AM on September 18 [34 favorites]


Collins is likely to remain a no on this latest Graham-Cassidy repeal effort.

My hot take is that she's waiting for the latest CBO score to officially announce opposition and continue to press for any legislation to go through the regular congressional committee process in order to further her gubernatorial ambitions here in Maine for 2018.
posted by OntologicalPuppy at 11:19 AM on September 18 [2 favorites]


I got through to Chuck's office.

"We'll add you to the list."

I mean...ok? But how about a plan?
posted by schadenfrau at 11:22 AM on September 18 [4 favorites]


I am listening to the audiobook of Trevor Noah's autobiography, "Born a Crime," about growing up in South Africa as Apartheid was being dismantled. He says -- which I had never heard before -- that the architects of Apartheid deliberately built a whole interlocking set of policies, and that they studied regimes around the world to make it as fundamental and pervasive and persistent as possible.

Then he talked about what it had in common with (and, to be fair, what made it different from) America's racial tensions and bigotry.

*sigh* I hate People.

(Awesome book, by the way.)
posted by wenestvedt at 11:23 AM on September 18 [21 favorites]


The Republican Party is truly, truly evil.
posted by schadenfrau at 11:26 AM on September 18 [5 favorites]


What gave it away?
posted by petebest at 11:29 AM on September 18 [6 favorites]


I'm so exhausted. I guess they're counting on that.

The HELL you are. You're OUTRAGED and PERSISTENT and TIRELESS, and they'd goddamned well better get used to counting on THAT.
posted by perspicio at 11:37 AM on September 18 [64 favorites]


The Republican Party is truly, truly evil.

Imagine how the noble and innocent elephant feels.
posted by Lyme Drop at 11:39 AM on September 18 [4 favorites]


Roy Moore, Alabama Senate candidate, says he laments racial divisions "between reds and yellows."
posted by waitingtoderail at 11:40 AM on September 18 [7 favorites]


Your next Senator from Alabama.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:45 AM on September 18 [4 favorites]


what are the rules governing when and where the senate can hold a vote? A little while back some friends/comrades here in Oakland successfully stopped the city council from giving away a parcel of public land to a developer connected to the council's president by simply blocking all of the spaces that city law had designated as valid spaces for city council meetings; i.e. the council chamber itself, and also the two meeting rooms designated as alternate chambers. Blocking the vote won time for a legal challenge, which in turn stopped the giveaway.

If moral senators (or fearless ordinary people) seized and occupied the senate floor on the 29th and 30th, would that prevent a vote, and thereby prevent ACA repeal under reconciliation rules?
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 11:46 AM on September 18 [4 favorites]


Roy Moore, Alabama Senate candidate, says he laments racial divisions "between reds and yellows."

He's currently a lock for the Senate for Alabama. Greatest deliberative body in the world my fucking ass.
posted by Talez at 11:46 AM on September 18 [10 favorites]




Not to defend such a . . . man? But he's probably subconsciously referencing

Jesus Loves the Little Children
Jesus loves the little children
All the children of the world
Red, brown, yellow
Black and white
They are precious in His sight.
Jesus loves the little children
Of the world.
Fun Fact: Sung to the 1864 Civil War tune "Tramp! Tramp! Tramp!" by George Fredrick Root

Surprise twist: was written to give hope to Union prisoners of war
posted by petebest at 11:51 AM on September 18 [2 favorites]


I live in Texas, and both of my Senators are locked in votes yay. IIRC both are co-sponsors of the legislation. I called anyway, but it was a futile gesture.

I do wonder about the Senators from less locked in Republican states.

In addition to the list provided by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish, I think there's another possibility:

They know 2018 is a virtual lock for Senate Republicans, and expect that by 2020 the voters will be distracted by some new shiny object so they don't think it'll have real electoral consequences.

But I'm increasingly worried that maybe they really are counting on 2016 being the last free and fair election. Gerrymandering is here to stay. Now that Trump put Gorsuch on the Court the vote is now a flat out guaranteed 5-4 in favor of gerrymandering.

In the House that means the Democrats have no real chance at a majority. IIRC on 538 they projected that in 2018 the Democrats would get around 54% of the votes cast, but only 47% of the House seats.

Pass state laws that divide Electoral College votes by congressional district and the same gerrymandering that virtually guarantees a Republican House now virtually guarantees a Republican Presidency. They've been working on that for a while now. If it had been in place in 2012 Romney would have gotten 273 Electoral Votes and been appointed president despite Obama's near landslide number of votes.

After that it's just a matter of repealing the 17th Amendment and that's the Senate locked in as eternally Republican too.

Their end goal is a one party nation.

I don't think I'm being paranoid to suspect that part of the reason so many Republicans are so comfortable voting blatantly to kill their constituents is that they really do think they're on the verge of making elections an empty show.

Plus, with the Supreme Court now firmly in their grasp for the next 30 years, I think a lot of the more strategically minded Republicans are seeing this as a good opportunity to ride Trump to some long sought after but politically toxic goals, let Trump absorb a lot of the fallout from that, and they figure that even if it costs them the Legislative and Executive branch for a 4 or even 8 years that's fine. They've got the Court to keep things going their way, they can afford 4 or 8 years of a Democratic controlled Legislative and Executive to clean up the mess they've made of the economy while they engage in maximal obstructionism and bide their time for their next strike.

The Republicans have always been good at tactical loss and strategic victory. They repeal the ACA, gut Medicare, rip Social Security apart, do irreparable damage to the EPA, the DOE, and other hated government agencies, rip up treaties, and generally a) achieve long sought after goals, while b) making a big enough mess that even 8 years of steady Democratic control of the Legislative and Executive will be distracted cleaning it up they won't have time to undo all the harm (and the Court will block most real reforms anyway).

If you've got an unpopular stinker of a President what do you do? You do **EVERYTHING YOU POSSIBLY CAN**, not "including" but "especially" the massively unpopular stuff. And you set him up to take the blame for every scrap of it. The Republican planners probably don't especially like Trump's horrible numbers and godawful ruining of America's reputation, but from a twisty point of view you can turn those into resources the Republican party can exploit.

If Trump is already awful and hated, then load him down with the blame for every single awful and hated Republican plan, then let him crash and burn. A scapegoat is a very useful thing to have.

Plus, I still think that the Money Republicans intend to use Trump as an object lesson to wrest back control of the Party from the Ideology Republicans. They'd probably originally hoped he'd lose the election, then they could say "Yeah, you morons thought Trump was a winner, now STFU and let us drive before you ruin everything". He won, but if his popularity stays in the crapper and he loses in 2020 that same message will work, maybe even better than if he'd lost to Clinton in 2016.
posted by sotonohito at 11:54 AM on September 18 [43 favorites]


David Roberts (Dr. Vox): 1. During the GW Bush admin, I used to frequently think, "well, at least this will discredit the modern GOP for a generation." 2. "There's no way the American people will soon forget or forgive this utter omnishambles. We had to experience it to really understand." 3. I was wildly naive & optimistic about that. The Bush disaster was flushed down the memory hole *almost immediately*. 4. Eight f'ing years of grinding mendacity, venality, cruelty, corruption, failure, incompetence, delusion -- just vanished w/out a trace. 5. With the "Tea Party," US political & media elites agreed that the right got a do-over. "Hey, we re-discovered our principles!" "Oh, OK." 6. The towering mountain of Bush-era failure was never held against the right. Their critiques of Obama were accepted at face value. 7. They were allowed to pretend that they care about legislative procedure, or the deficit, or transparency, or dignity in office. 8. They were allowed to pretend, even though the previous 8 years had demonstrated w/ painful clarity that those principles were HOLLOW. 9. Now here they are, back in power. Corruption is back. Transparency & dignity are long gone. No one cares about the deficit (except Dems). 10. Every single principle that allegedly fueled the right's opposition to Obama has been exposed as purely instrumental, a convenient tool. 11. The pivot from principle to utter instrumentalism & corruption was dizzyingly fast & complete this time. Like f'ing performance art. 12. So this time, we'll remember, right? Now that they have *repeated the lesson* in the ugliest, most brutal way possible ... 13. ... we'll remember what the modern GOP truly is, the face it shows in power. No way they'll be allowed to get away this time, right? 14. Ha ha. Witness Spicer at the Emmys. The forgiveness & rehabilitation of these empty-souled liars has already begun. 15. The drive to normalize is structural & deep in DC. It's just what happens, unless there's active resistance. 16. Trump himself will be cast out, of course. He's so gauche. But the men in suits who surrounded & enabled him? They'll skate. Easy. 17. If you're thinking, "this is SO bad, SO obviously evil, that the normal rules will be suspended & there will be consequences" ... 18. ... well, enjoy being young. All of DC is a machine designed to wash the shit off men in suits. It'll wash this off too. 19. And in the 2024 election, Rs will rediscover their principles & resume preaching about the deficit, dignity, & proper procedure ... 20. And the media will take them seriously. That's just how this works.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:57 AM on September 18 [69 favorites]


All of DC is a machine designed to wash the shit off men in suits.

Wow! That's concise.
posted by thelonius at 12:02 PM on September 18 [61 favorites]


If moral senators (or fearless ordinary people) seized and occupied the senate floor on the 29th and 30th, would that prevent a vote, and thereby prevent ACA repeal under reconciliation rules?

McConnell would almost certainly have the Capitol police physically remove anyone preventing the body from meeting. Even, I think, another Senator.

The classic technique is to prevent a quorum, which could be done if every democrat and independent refused to show up along with 3 republicans. They go have a party somewhere secret and then a quorum cannot be called and they cannot vote.
posted by dis_integration at 12:02 PM on September 18 [2 favorites]


Although the quorum rules will depend on the parliamentarian, since the way it's written, someone has to "suggest" the absence of a quorum in order for there to be a rollcall. So I guess maybe you can just move forward so long as nobody suggests the absence of a quorum? I dunno. This happens in state houses from time to time, and it's always a blast, what with the majority leader or equivalent sending State Police out across the land to retrieve the missing Senators and force them to vote.
posted by dis_integration at 12:04 PM on September 18


But if they had 3 Republicans to help, they'd be able to just vote down the bill.
posted by sotonohito at 12:04 PM on September 18 [10 favorites]


The classic technique is to prevent a quorum, which could be done if every democrat and independent refused to show up along with 3 republicans.

If they had those numbers, couldn't they all just vote no? Dammit.

Maybe someone can put a lone woman in Mike Pence's path on his way to the tiebreaking vote, an obstacle which he will be unable to move past.
posted by Emmy Rae at 12:05 PM on September 18 [26 favorites]


If you could get three Republicans to agree to go AWOL, you wouldn't need theatrics and subterfuge because the vote would already fail. It's not like the three could say "I had a dental appointment" or "Goodness, was the vote TODAY?" to explain their absence; they are either on the side of homo sapiens or they are not.
posted by delfin at 12:06 PM on September 18 [4 favorites]


> Spicer didn't just get a warm welcome on stage, all those Hollywood liberals were mugging for selfies and beers with him at the after party.

The Sean Spicer Joke Should’ve Ended on the Emmy Stage. The Problem Is, It Didn’t.
posted by homunculus at 12:14 PM on September 18 [7 favorites]


As a matter of fact, he is still with us. Remember?
"Let me give you a word of the philosophy of reform. The whole history of the progress of human liberty shows that all concessions yet made to her august claims, have been born of earnest struggle. The conflict has been exciting, agitating, all-absorbing, and for the time being, putting all other tumults to silence. It must do this or it does nothing. If there is no struggle there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom and yet depreciate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightening. They want the ocean without the awful roar of its many waters."

"This struggle may be a moral one, or it may be a physical one, and it may be both moral and physical, but it must be a struggle. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will. Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them, and these will continue till they are resisted with either words or blows, or with both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress. In the light of these ideas, Negroes will be hunted at the North, and held and flogged at the South so long as they submit to those devilish outrages, and make no resistance, either moral or physical. Men may not get all they pay for in this world; but they must certainly pay for all they get. If we ever get free from the oppressions and wrongs heaped upon us, we must pay for their removal. We must do this by labor, by suffering, by sacrifice, and if needs be, by our lives and the lives of others."

- Frederick Douglass
We must not, will not, and, indeed, cannot stop. Injustice done to us is the very fuel that drives us, and the greater the injustice, the greater our efforts.

Let them be rigid, brittle, and afflicted with white fragility. We are resilient, robust, antifragile, and on the side of righteousness itself.

I ain't tired. I'm just getting started.
posted by perspicio at 12:18 PM on September 18 [48 favorites]


Collins is likely to remain a no on this latest Graham-Cassidy repeal effort.

Which is relatively meaningless if the whip count shows the bill will pass regardless of her vote.

McCain is the key, here, and with Ducey's support for the bill, McCain has the coverage he needs to vote to pass.

That leads to a tie, which our favorite gurning golem will be happy to break in favor of kicking people off of health care and freeing up budget funds to let them give corporations and rich people another tax cut.
posted by darkstar at 12:25 PM on September 18 [5 favorites]


The Sean Spicer joke should have ended with Colbert turning to him in complete seriousness and saying "you took a salary from the American people and used it to tell them lies. Get off my stage."

Anyway, CBO says they'll have a "preliminary assessment" of Graham-Cassidy by early next week, but "CBO will not be able to provide point estimates of effects on deficit, health insurance coverage, or premiums for at least several weeks." It's a particularly hard bill to score because so much of the impacts will depends on what states do in response. In other words, they could easily be voting on this without a full score, as in no big number that says how many people will lose coverage.
posted by zachlipton at 12:27 PM on September 18 [30 favorites]


In other words, they could easily be voting on this without a full score, as in no big number that says how many people will lose coverage.

And whereas that should be a reason to not hold a vote at all until it arrives -- why would you vote on a bill when you know that you don't know the best-estimate of the impact it will have, and when you know that estimate will be forthcoming later? -- I worry that, given how the AHCA debate played out, the lack of any big numbers either way will actually act as an inducement to vote.

And then, in a few weeks once the full CBO score is in: "WHO COULD HAVE PREDICTED THIS? (other than all the people who predicted this?)"
posted by cjelli at 12:32 PM on September 18 [7 favorites]


Two things which seem like cause for hope: first, doesn't there need to be a Byrd bath? How's a huge, unwieldy mess of a bill going to go from a committee hearing to law in a week? Aren't there mandated parliamentary discussion periods that can run the clock down?

And, second, any hope Heller will break? The party has not relented in their willingness to shit on him even after he voted their way last time around; he seems like a good candidate to step out rather than continuing to carry water for them. Capito seemed pretty soft in support last time around too. Looks like there are plenty of question marks still there inside of their caucus.
posted by jackbishop at 12:32 PM on September 18 [1 favorite]


Heller is a co-sponsor, so no.
posted by Chrysostom at 12:34 PM on September 18 [1 favorite]


Some good news!

Rhode Island's Governor and the Rhode Island Foundation raised $170,000 from donors to cover the renewal fees for every DREAMer in the state who needs to renew their DACA status by October 5th.

Does this sound like a good idea? Wish your state was as proactive? You can donate to the DACA Renewal Fund, run by United We Dream. Many local immigration organizations are running funds too, if you prefer to donate locally.
posted by zachlipton at 12:35 PM on September 18 [54 favorites]


> First, doesn't there need to be a Byrd bath? How's a huge, unwieldy mess of a bill going to go from a committee hearing to law in a week? Aren't there mandated parliamentary discussion periods that can run the clock down?

Have you seen how Republicans are running the Senate? Rules, norms - turns out these things don't matter much after all.

And, second, any hope Heller will break?

You're kidding, right? He's a Republican senator in danger of a primary challenge from the right.

Off to - once again - call Tom Reed (R-asshole) and ask how he feels about Medicaid funding being reduced for upstate NY. Can't wait to hear how up is actually down.
posted by RedOrGreen at 12:37 PM on September 18 [3 favorites]


Which means that it's up to Rand Paul. He is putting up a good front about opposing it but, like the family Frankenstein, the madness lurks in the blood and turning one's back on a Paul is oft regretted.
posted by delfin at 12:37 PM on September 18 [5 favorites]


Via NBC News:
Trump: "We're actually thinking about, 4th of July, Pennsylvania Avenue, having a really great parade to show our military strength."
...
"We'll see if we can do it this year, but we certainly will be beginning to do that," President Trump added.
Flashback to Trump's inauguration:
The month after Donald Trump won the presidential election, his staff asked the Pentagon to send photographs of military tactical vehicles that he could include in his inaugural parade, emails obtained by The Huffington Post show.

The Presidential Inaugural Committee “is seriously considering adding military vehicles to the Inaugural Parade,” a Pentagon official wrote in an internal email dated Dec. 13, 2016. “The conversation started as ‘Can you send us some pictures of military vehicles we could add to the parade,’” the official wrote.
posted by cjelli at 12:39 PM on September 18 [3 favorites]


All of DC is a machine designed to wash the shit off white men in dark suits.

FTF[him], because DC's amazing cleansing power is less effective on black men, particularly black men in tan suits. Always remember to test DC against a small inobtrusive part of your electorate to identify and prevent any problems like visible staining or the complete takeover of the American government by virulent white supremacist smegsmears.
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 12:48 PM on September 18 [15 favorites]


If you want to help fund DACA renewals in Pennsylvania, you can donate to the Dreamers Initiative.
posted by mcduff at 12:49 PM on September 18 [2 favorites]


Moran making waffl-y noises:
Moran's office: "Sen. Moran continues to have conversations with Kansans and his colleagues regarding Graham/Cassidy and reconciliation"
posted by Chrysostom at 12:54 PM on September 18 [1 favorite]




Congress is out of session all this week. They are only scheduled for four days next week, although I suppose they could extend it to Friday and Saturday, maybe. Then time is up. That's not much time to pass a bill in both houses.

Remember that the "skinny" repeal was just a placeholder so that Senate and House could resolve their differences in a conference committee. In this case, there is no time for a conference committee. The House will have to vote on the Senate bill word for word with no changes. That's going to be a tough pill to swallow, although not impossible.

I would hope that Schumer and Pelosi will use every dirty trick in the procedural book to jam up Congress for four days. No unanimous consent. Roll call on every vote. Quorum calls. As many amendment votes as they can manage. Republicans managed to do it for over a year for a Supreme Court nomination.
posted by JackFlash at 12:58 PM on September 18 [36 favorites]


"We're actually thinking about, 4th of July, Pennsylvania Avenue, having a really great parade to show our military strength."

You know what's great for military strength? Taking units out of their training cycles for like a month to prep, move, execute, and recover from a dog-and-pony show. To say nothing of how many vehicles* will break down going to and coming from the parade.

* -- Built by the lowest bidder, maintained mostly by people who do not know how the fuck to maintain a vehicle.
posted by Etrigan at 12:59 PM on September 18 [15 favorites]


Trump's DACA Moves Aren't Shaking His Most Loyal Supporters (NPR, Sept. 18, 2017)
Many conservatives pundits and lawmakers were incensed that President Donald Trump appeared to make a deal with Democrats to enshrine into law the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program that shields many undocumented immigrants who were brought into the U.S. as children. To make matters worse for immigration hawks, Trump is also not requiring funding to build a wall along the Mexican border as a condition of the possible deal.

For Trump, who campaigned in favor of the border wall and for ending the DACA program, his reversal is a major test of the so-called Fifth Avenue principle he gave during the election.

"They say I have the most loyal people. Did you ever see that? Where I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose any voters. It's like incredible," said Trump during a campaign stop in Sioux Center, Iowa in January 2016.
...
Trump's decision to not insist on funding for the wall as a condition of any deal wasn't seen as a betrayal to Kelsey Bayliss, a pharmacist from Wellman, Iowa.

"I think the wall itself will be built. I think it is good to work with Democrats with regards to DACA, I think there's a mutual agreement on everything. And we need to forget who's Republican and we need to forget who's Democrat and work for the better of the country.

Her husband, Austin, chimed in that after months of working with Republicans, Trump is finally getting a chance to use his famed negotiating skills.

"I think this is the beginning of the art of the deal and it's about time."
I laughed at that line when I heard it this morning. Now you can enjoy a photo of so many stodgy, older white people enjoying stodgy-looking comfort food: fried chicken, mashed potatoes and cookies.

In other "good god, this country is divided," NPR/Ipsos Poll: Half Of Americans Don't Trust Trump On North Korea -- it's no surprise which half that is. But one big surprise: The president has unilateral authority to launch a nuclear strikea fact that surprises many Americans. Only about a quarter of the people surveyed know that Trump can order a strike on his own authority. Most incorrectly think he needs to get Congress' approval.

I wonder if they would change their mind if knew the truth of Trump's power (notwithstanding our own Stanislav Petrov). I imagine some would, but I know now that I shouldn't hope for much.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:03 PM on September 18 [2 favorites]


Yes, but the important thing is that Trump would get to live out his lifelong dream of standing up and waving as a bunch of big manly military vehicles pass by just like Joseph Stalin did!
posted by sotonohito at 1:04 PM on September 18 [5 favorites]


JackFlash, as I understand it the bill just needs to pass the Senate before the end of the month.
posted by mcduff at 1:04 PM on September 18 [1 favorite]


Remember that the "skinny" repeal was just a placeholder so that Senate and House could resolve their differences in a conference committee.

This was a lie. The House was going to vote on "skinny repeal" straight up and send it to Trump.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 1:04 PM on September 18 [13 favorites]


I'm late to the issue up thread about the terrible GOP tax reform ideas, but I feel a little poem is in order.

Share the wealth
Tax us more
And give it to the poor

Maybe it's a haiku or something. The thought is there anyway. If they want this 'hard(ly) working american's' thoughts.
posted by Gadgetenvy at 1:10 PM on September 18 [3 favorites]


That's not much time to pass a bill in both houses.

The House doesn't have to pass it by the end of the month, or so I've been told. The Senate can pass it before the budget resolution expires, but the House can pass it later. The catch is that the House can't then amend it, at all, without needing 60 votes in the Senate (or a new budget resolution, which is entirely possible), so it would be a take-it-or-leave it situation. Last time, the Senate was about to pass BCRA only if the House promised they wouldn't pass it as is. This time, the gun is fully loaded.

The other problem is that all this Graham-Cassidy mess is screwing up the bipartisan effort to reauthorize CHIP (the children's health insurance program). That expires at the end of the month too.

And McCain is on full on "regular order" mode, whatever that's going to actually mean in terms of his vote. @Alexruoff: McCain against Graham-Cassidy now. Reiterated his need for regular order: "it's about process, He said "regular order" three times when asked about his support. Says he wants months of hearings and debate and options for amendments

@Phil_Mattingly: McCain tells me Ducey support is helpful, but doesn't mean he's "inclined" to support it. Still very frustrated with process

@sahilkapur: McCAIN on Graham-Cassidy: "I am not supportive of the bill yet.". He emphasizes he wants regular order, says CBO non-score affects his view. McCain tells me and other reporters he wants markups and the ability to offer amendments to Graham-Cassidy.

Of course, if we lose Murkowski, McCain can complain about regular order all day long and it won't make a bit of difference.
posted by zachlipton at 1:13 PM on September 18 [9 favorites]


John McCain is exhausting. How does he keep up with himself?
posted by Glibpaxman at 1:17 PM on September 18 [11 favorites]


John McCain is exhausting. How does he keep up with himself?

When you have no principle besides "Keep the camera on me", you don't need to exert any effort on tracking your actual position.
posted by Etrigan at 1:21 PM on September 18 [9 favorites]


He's completely exhausting. He says he's not supportive "yet," while repeatedly requesting a set of things that he cannot have before the bill turns into a pumpkin on September 30th.

Paul doesn't sound enthusiastic either:
Paul on chances Graham/Cassidy health care bill could pass:
Last week I would have said zero. But now I'm worried
Paul on latest repeal and replace:
I thought it was dead and gone..I was surprised they tried to resurrect it
Paul on Graham/Cassidy heath care plan: It keep 90 percent of Obamacare and redistributes the proceeds..it is not repeal
Paul: This does not look, smell or sound like repeal..This is a game of Republicans sticking it to Democrats
Paul on the rush on health care due to Sept 30 deadline:
I think you can do the wrong thing...people are intent on just doing something
posted by zachlipton at 1:30 PM on September 18 [2 favorites]


"We're actually thinking about, 4th of July, Pennsylvania Avenue, having a really great parade to show our military strength."


You know what really shows a country's military strength? Not having to parade its hardware and personnel.
posted by Rykey at 1:30 PM on September 18 [32 favorites]


I wonder how many Republicans 1) don't want this to pass but also 2) don't want to vote against it, lest they get primaried.

Since McCain presumably isn't running again, and Collins wants to be governor, and Murkowski has no real fear of being primaried, they were bullet proof. As long as they were willing to vote against it, everyone else could vote for it so as to be on the record as trying to "repeal Obamacare" without fear that it would actually pass.

What kind of pressure do those three have on them in private, to keep providing cover for everyone else that way? If one of them actually does decide to flip, will someone else take the bullet to stop this from actually passing (Hatch? Were there rumors he was going to retire?)

I think McCain tried to keep his vote uncertain last time so that McConnell would actually bring it to a vote, bringing closure (temporarily) to the endless negotiation and overwhelming pressure from all sides. But if so you wouldn't think there was any strategic advantage to coyness this time, with the Sept 30th deadline about the put the thing out of its misery anyway.
posted by OnceUponATime at 1:31 PM on September 18 [4 favorites]


Paul almost sounds like a reasonable person if you just read his quotes, until you remember that he's against all these bill because they don't hurt enough people. He can't be trusted.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:33 PM on September 18 [19 favorites]


Hatch? Were there rumors he was going to retire?

Hatch is very unlikely as a No vote, but separately - he has not yet officially announced that he is running for re-election. He's 83 years old, fwiw.
posted by Chrysostom at 1:35 PM on September 18 [1 favorite]


Paul really really sounds like a no here, I've got to say:

@t_golshan: .@RandPaul said he doesn't "see any possibility" on this bill (Graham-Cassidy), when asked if any changes could change his mind.

I was really looking forward to not spending the next two weeks reading the tea leaves to try to figure out which Senators are in favor of killing us.

Anyway, go read Renato Mariotti's How to Read Bob Mueller’s Hand: "Based on what we know so far, here’s a former federal prosecutor’s expert read on where the Russian investigation is heading."
posted by zachlipton at 1:38 PM on September 18 [18 favorites]


As I understand it the bill just needs to pass the Senate before the end of the month.

Thanks for the correction. The House will still have to pass the Senate version word for word without amendments.
posted by JackFlash at 1:41 PM on September 18 [1 favorite]


Which they would do in a heartbeat, given the chance.
posted by perspicio at 1:45 PM on September 18 [2 favorites]


I wonder how many Republicans 1) don't want this to pass but also 2) don't want to vote against it, lest they get primaried.

Every one of them made that calculation for the last vote. We see how they voted.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 1:49 PM on September 18


Thanks for the correction. The House will still have to pass the Senate version word for word without amendments.

The relationships between reconciliation and conference reports get complicated, especially once you throw the deadlines into it, so I wouldn't want to bet that that's the case unless Sarah Binder/Greg Koger/Steve Smith/maybe Barbara Sinclair said so.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 1:53 PM on September 18 [1 favorite]


Ok, I'm declaring the bill dead for today. Join us tomorrow for another terrifying episode of "is it back?"

@frankthorp: Sen @MarkWarner tells @GarrettHaake and me he's a '👎' on Graham-Cassidy #exclu

@ChadPergram: GOP LA Sen Kennedy "uncertain" on latest health care bill. Sent 4 amdts to Graham/Cassidy. "I'm not completely there yet" GOP LA Sen Kennedy worried about block granting $ to states in new health care bill. Says CA and NY would set up a single payer system

"We can't give health care money to the states because blue states will use it for single payer" is an utterly unbelievable argument against a bill that is entirely premised on federalism by giving money to the states so they can use it the way they think best, but here we are.
posted by zachlipton at 1:55 PM on September 18 [65 favorites]


By which I mean that it might still be possible for the House to change things, the House and Senate go to conference, and finally bang out a bill they're proudless embarrassed of that can still effectively pass with 50.

I am not saying this is the case; I don't get anywhere nearly that far into Senate minutiae. I only wouldn't want to bet the farm on it being false unless one of those previous people said "Yeah, they can't do that."
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 1:55 PM on September 18


Trump issued a Rosh Hashanah message and it's not horrible. Its brevity and formularity have been unfavorably compared to the last Rosh Hashanah message, delivered by President Obama, but it's not as bad as might have been expected. It condemns antisemitism and only has a small amount of self-aggrandisement and, unlike his Holocaust Remembrance Day message, actually mentions Jews. For once, Donald Trump has successfully met my low expectations.
posted by Joe in Australia at 2:00 PM on September 18 [6 favorites]


@frankthorp: Sen @MarkWarner tells @GarrettHaake and me he's a '👎' on Graham-Cassidy #exclu

Warner is a D, this is a scoop on par with "sun rises in east".
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 2:01 PM on September 18 [22 favorites]


"We can't give health care money to the states because blue states will use it for single payer" is an utterly unbelievable argument against a bill that is entirely premised on federalism by giving money to the states so they can use it the way they think best, but here we are.

See, they want red states to use that block money by stealing it for payoffs to Republican donors, not for health care costs. Can't have blue states actually innovating!
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:04 PM on September 18 [2 favorites]


Whether the bill is dead or not, I still say swamp 'em mercilessly with calls, emails, and letters, letting them know you're pissed that they're even still talking about it. Help them to understand that they will never know a moment's peace as long as they continue to defy the will of the people or otherwise act in ways that harm them.

Give them never-ending hell in a raucous box marked Return To Sender.
posted by perspicio at 2:07 PM on September 18 [9 favorites]


I am not saying this is the case; I don't get anywhere nearly that far into Senate minutiae. I only wouldn't want to bet the farm on it being false unless one of those previous people said "Yeah, they can't do that."

I'm pretty sure they can't do that, the FY2017 reconciliation instructions expire, any changes after 9/30 would be subject to 60 votes under the 2018 reconciliation instructions, which don't exist yet, and Republicans will use for tax "reform". Any changes made in what would normally be a conference committee would have to be voted on again by the Senate. If the Senate passes something at the deadline, that's a take it or leave it to the House.
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:10 PM on September 18


"We can't give health care money to the states because blue states will use it for single payer" is an utterly unbelievable argument against a bill that is entirely premised on federalism by giving money to the states so they can use it the way they think best, but here we are.

The implied second clause of that argument is "...and when they show us that it works by providing better care on average for less cost, we won't be argue against the imaginary socialist, death panel creating single payer system boogy man."
posted by TwoWordReview at 2:12 PM on September 18 [16 favorites]


"Here's a photo of Ty Cobb & John Dowd casually & loudly discussing details of Russia investigation at @BLTSteakDC while I sat at next table."

How was the steak done? Did they have ketchup?

There are standards on Trump reportage that need to be upheld!
posted by srboisvert at 2:22 PM on September 18 [6 favorites]


You know what really shows a country's military strength? Not having to parade its hardware and personnel.

WaPo: U.S. jets drop live bombs in a new, massive show of force aimed at North Korea

Live fire bombing practice by B-1Bs within "a few dozen miles" of the DMZ seems like a very safe way to make a point in advance of a UN address.....said no one with a half a brain.
posted by snuffleupagus at 2:36 PM on September 18 [4 favorites]


The implied second clause of that argument is "...and when they show us that it works by providing better care on average for less cost, we won't be argue against the imaginary socialist, death panel creating single payer system boogy man."

I dunno about that. If you're looking to elect a permanent R electoral college you send Democratic voting sickies to the blue states (give them a ride to the bus station and a ticket) and the red states just get redder keeping the nation in a whole heap of GOP hegemony.

Plus talk about corporate welfare. If there were blue states with single payer and if I were an evil business lord I would entice people in with low taxes, low cost of living, but low wages, grind them up, then send them to Mass or California to handle the medical bills.

There's such a fucking bonanza here of socializing corporate externalities that I'm not at all surprised on how it turned out.
posted by Talez at 2:39 PM on September 18 [4 favorites]


The headline reads: Hillary Clinton just floated the possibility of contesting the 2016 election.

Which isn't actually what happened. (It's an article by Chris Cillizza, who is apparently incapable of reporting anything accurately.) She was asked if she would consider it if evidence of collusion with Russia by Trump became incontrovertible and said she wouldn't rule it out. Cillizza's breathless analysis follows.

It's not going to happen for a bunch of reasons, but just for one glorious moment, imagine Trump's incandescent fury.
posted by zarq at 2:46 PM on September 18 [25 favorites]


Vox is killing me with their reporting on Sanders' healthcare plan and I want to scream. They keep saying, over and over,

"Sure people pay a lot for their insurance, but it's possible that Bernie's plan would lead to taxes that are even higher than those premiums for some people. We can't run the numbers because there are no details about pay-fors - we have no idea what people would be paying under this plan. We can't figure out if people would be worse off or not. So we're going to keep repeating that you might be worse off under single payer."

They can't run the numbers but they can do better than that. They could say like, "On average people are already spending over 10% of their income on healthcare -" (Even if it's coming from their employer, that's still part of your pay, and BTW Donald Trump wants to tax you on it.) They could say "It would probably take a tax rate increase of 15% for most people to feel any difference."

They would be ballpark numbers, but that would still be more context and more helpful context. They have enough information to do better.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 2:49 PM on September 18 [19 favorites]


If only there were some other countries we could look to so we.could estimate the cost of single payer! Or state Medicaid programs. Oh well, let's just repeat some vague scary bullshit.
posted by benzenedream at 2:53 PM on September 18 [15 favorites]


They can't run the numbers but they can do better than that. They could say like, "On average people are already spending over 10% of their income on healthcare -" (Even if it's coming from their employer, that's still part of your pay, and BTW Donald Trump wants to tax you on it.) They could say "It would probably take a tax rate increase of 15% for most people to feel any difference."

Well here's the thing right. Under the ACA there's the 85/15 rule. So whatever amount you're putting into the healthcare system, 15% of it is coming straight off the top. Medicare has a most favored nation status so it's already paying the lowest amount for EVERY healthcare service. Anyone who says healthcare would be more expensive as single payer is fucking high. The back of the napkin math is completely and ridiculously against the private insurance system.

If you were starting from single payer and arguing that you want to move to a system where an insurance company can take 15% profit and get charged more people would think you're an absolute fucking pillock because it's incredibly obvious that costs are going to go up.
posted by Talez at 2:58 PM on September 18 [13 favorites]


Jesus, the GOP health care plans are deeply unpopular in the country. But here we are again, trying to read the tea leaves on whether John McCain actually means anything when he says he's "concerned" and how the fates of 30 million people hang in the balance.

For a representative democracy, this some bullshit.
posted by darkstar at 2:59 PM on September 18 [38 favorites]


And if you were going to implement single payer you'd sure as hell do it as a payroll tax similar to insurance premiums now.
posted by Talez at 2:59 PM on September 18 [1 favorite]


We know and they are acknowledging where the money is coming from. What he's asking for is unprecedented, and yes, it's actually important to find out what single payer will cost if we want to finance it in a sustainable way.

If only there were some other countries we could look to so we.could estimate the cost of single payer!

We can't. Because those other countries limit what medical vendors and physicians can charge the public. Their price structure is outlined by the government. Our government only does that for Medicare, and that is not consistent. Some things are covered. Some are not. Some are expected to be covered by Medicaid or out of pocket. And there are limits to Medicare coverage. It only covers a certain amount annually. And not all medications. Medicare does not cover everything. There are different kinds of Medicare. There are private plans that people use to supplement their coverage when they fall into the donut gap. We can't use medicaid as a universal reference because medicaid coverage and benefits vary widely from state to state.

They could say like, "On average people are already spending over 10% of their income on healthcare -"

Which is true, but still is not helpful information beyond "we need something better" and we already know that. We all know that single payer as a Medicare plan will almost definitely be lower than what people are paying now on average for worse coverage. Simply because what Medicare pays for is lower than everyone else.

But we still need to know the numbers.

Senator Sanders is asking for a level of coverage that is not covered by Medicare, never has been covered by it and is also not covered by the very best Medicare and Medicaid plans combined. For everyone in the country. Without any supplemental private insurance to fill in the gaps. That's never been done before. And how much it costs is an insanely complicated question which we actually need answers to. The numbers have to be run if we want a plan that's going to last. And that is what Vox is saying. They're not being outright dismissive. It's a complicated thing and analyses are needed.
posted by zarq at 3:06 PM on September 18 [11 favorites]


And if you were going to implement single payer you'd sure as hell do it as a payroll tax similar to insurance premiums now.

You would fund the entire health care system entirely with a regressive tax on workers? A lot of people would vehemently disagree with that approach.
posted by zachlipton at 3:07 PM on September 18 [7 favorites]




One of the other reasons the GOP don't want block grants to states is that, if some states used the money to shift to single payer, then corporations would no longer need to provide health care benefits in that state. So, corporations would be more inclined to locate (or relocate) in those states.

You'd see a drain from red states to blue states of manufacturing and tech sector companies that could reduce their number one expense (wages & benefits) by 10% or more.

Corporations that remained in the red states would find themselves at an immediate disadvantage by having to cover health care costs in order to compete with job offers in blue states with single payer.

Can't have that, even if it does put the lie to the claim that it's all supposedly about state's rights, etc. Another example of "you're not supposed to say that out loud, Congressman."
posted by darkstar at 3:09 PM on September 18 [22 favorites]


states rights is supposed to be a race to the bottom not the top!
posted by Glibpaxman at 3:12 PM on September 18 [5 favorites]


Talking about how we're going to fund Single Payer when we're days away from destroying health care in the country is like spending all your time talking about what you're going to do with your signing bonus with the Yankees when you're a 16 year old about to go in for surgery on your rotator cuff.
posted by Justinian at 3:16 PM on September 18 [43 favorites]


Hey, looks like those F-35Bs dropped bombs, too. Without, like, a wing breaking off or something.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 3:16 PM on September 18 [2 favorites]


Like, that's great single payer yes good, BUT WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE SOON.
posted by Justinian at 3:16 PM on September 18 [2 favorites]


Senator Sanders is asking for a level of coverage that is not covered by Medicare, never has been covered by it and is also not covered by the very best Medicare and Medicaid plans combined.

It's also beyond what is covered by government plans in other countries. In most countries 10% (the UK, Sweden) to 30% (Canada, Switzerland) of costs are paid for by private sector entities. It's not 100% government in any country, but that seems to be what Sanders is proposing. Also doctors here are unlikely to accept 50% pay cuts, just because doctors in other countries make half what they do here.

So it really is hard to estimate what would happen with Sanders' plan.
posted by OnceUponATime at 3:17 PM on September 18 [3 favorites]


It ends up being a LOT more attractive than that in some industries. If the healthcare benefits extend to retirees by contract (so, union workers by and large), then the company has to carry the present value of that debt as a long-term liability on their balance sheet. It accounted for something like a quarter GM's liabilities before their bankruptcy. Now I can evaporate that debt from my balance sheet by simply only hiring workers from states with single-payer?

Heck, if I have jobs that could be done remotely, I can save the couple thousand I'd be spending on their health insurance and even put it toward their salary if I need to.
posted by VTX at 3:24 PM on September 18 [2 favorites]


Talking about how we're going to fund Single Payer when we're days away from destroying health care in the country is like spending all your time talking about what you're going to do with your signing bonus with the Yankees when you're a 16 year old about to go in for surgery on your rotator cuff.

If Republicans do manage to repeal the ACA and strip healthcare coverage from millions of American citizens, it would be best to have viable alternative options to talk about. Since they'll be first against the wall when the revolution comes.
posted by zarq at 3:25 PM on September 18 [4 favorites]


I see Sanders as a true believer, but one who is realistic and who also understands the value of planting a flag to define the moral high ground for the folks that follow after.

He may not realistically expect Single Payer to become reality right away, but he knows (as I think most of us do) that or some variation thereof is inevitable. So he's helping shift the Overton Window to allow us all the space to discuss and agree to something perhaps less than pure Single Payer for now, but which will move us in the right direction toward universal coverage.
posted by darkstar at 3:26 PM on September 18 [33 favorites]


I'm gonna need a lot more than Murkowski saying that she's "still looking at it" to believe she'd vote for this bill. She made those noises about skinny repeal etc as well. There is no reason to take a firm position when there is still a chance the bill never comes up for a vote.

I believe Collins and Murkowski are NO votes. So you need one of McCain or Paul to vote NO as well. I think McCain was hoping to use Ducey as cover to vote against this one but now Ducey came out for it, so he's left in a bind. Maybe Paul will decide this bill doesn't screw enough poor people or something.
posted by Justinian at 3:26 PM on September 18 [5 favorites]


Where is Moore Capito on this?
posted by fluttering hellfire at 3:37 PM on September 18 [1 favorite]


It's obvious that single payer will come with pricing controls, which is why everyone benefiting from the current mess (specialists, drug companies) will fight it tooth and nail.
posted by benzenedream at 3:37 PM on September 18 [6 favorites]


In case you need any more data points to convince your friends and family to call their senators:
this bill is estimated to cause 32 million people to lose health insurance. That's 10 percent of the people in this country.
posted by mcduff at 3:39 PM on September 18 [18 favorites]


Orrin Hatch has scheduled a hearing for Monday. That gives McCain his cover to claim "regular order".

Where is Moore Capito on this?


She showed her colors last time, she's a party line vote. The only reason she was considered a get-able 'no' is because of the disproportionate number of West Virginian's on Medicaid. She happily told all those people to drop dead a month ago.
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:46 PM on September 18 [1 favorite]


You would fund the entire health care system entirely with a regressive tax on workers? A lot of people would vehemently disagree with that approach.

You already do that. 155 million Americans, almost half, get their health insurance from their employer. The employer is already paying a health insurance "payroll tax". Under the Sanders plan, instead of paying it to private insurance companies, employers would pay it to Medicare.

As for the employee portion, currently every employee pays the same premium, regardless of wage, low or high. Under the Sanders plan the employee would pay a percentage of wage, which is more progressive than the current flat fee.
posted by JackFlash at 3:47 PM on September 18 [3 favorites]


I get that Sanders' plan is uniquely generous as written. I still think it's misleading to say people MIGHT pay more in taxes than they do in premiums. I mean, they might possibly. But most people don't have a good grasp on how much our system costs, because it's set up deliberately to hide costs, so they don't have the proper context to interpret the cost of single-payer. It makes that statement sound a lot more likely than it really is. It feels dishonest to gloss over the cost of our current system and talk about taxes.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 3:53 PM on September 18 [2 favorites]


[Countries with a single-payer medical system] limit what medical vendors and physicians can charge the public. Their price structure is outlined by the government.

Not in Australia, which is often used as an example of single-payer systems. The government specifies how much it will pay for procedures, but providers are free to charge more and many do. In fact the government pretty much expects that providers will charge more than the rebate amount, for policy reasons. Bad ones IMO, but there you are.

If I were going to transform the US medical payment system I would start by looking at what insurance companies currently pay for, and base my system on rebates on that. Government-assured payments would greatly reduce the cost of billing and debt recovery so I would expect charges to be discounted by some fraction, but billing is already opaque so who knows.

Private insurance could compete as an alternative to the government-level payments, or a supplement which would cover things like private hospital rooms and so forth. People would have to start with the expectation that the system is not going to be perfect, and basing coverage on a good average existing insurance plan (but without deductibles) would be a way to do it.
posted by Joe in Australia at 3:55 PM on September 18 [4 favorites]


Argh, I omitted a whole phrase from my earlier comment.

It should have said "One of the other reasons the GOP don't want block grants to states to be used to fund state-by-state single payer programs is that..."


The Times ragrets the error.
posted by darkstar at 3:58 PM on September 18


SCOOP-O-CLOCK from CNN: Exclusive: US government wiretapped former Trump campaign chairman. There was a FISA warrant out for Manafort as early as 2014, when the FBI was investigating work that Washington lobbying firms were doing in Ukraine. It expired sometime last year due to lack of evidence, and the FBI got a new warrant to investigate connections between the Trump campaign and Russia. However, there was a gap in the surveillance that included June 2016, when the Trump Tower meeting took place.
Some of the intelligence collected includes communications that sparked concerns among investigators that Manafort had encouraged the Russians to help with the campaign, according to three sources familiar with the investigation. Two of these sources, however, cautioned that the evidence is not conclusive.
...
It is unclear when the new warrant started. The FBI interest deepened last fall because of intercepted communications between Manafort and suspected Russian operatives, and among the Russians themselves, that reignited their interest in Manafort, the sources told CNN. As part of the FISA warrant, CNN has learned that earlier this year, the FBI conducted a search of a storage facility belonging to Manafort. It's not known what they found.

The conversations between Manafort and Trump continued after the President took office, long after the FBI investigation into Manafort was publicly known, the sources told CNN. They went on until lawyers for the President and Manafort insisted that they stop, according to the sources.

It's unclear whether Trump himself was picked up on the surveillance.
posted by zachlipton at 4:03 PM on September 18 [34 favorites]


> Oh god, he's hold my beer-ing his own statements.

Deadspin: ESPN's Public Editor Is Mad Online
A sizable number of people were engaging the thin-skinned Brady while he was—by his own account—not having a nervous breakdown. One of them was freelance sportswriter Dave Lozo, who cracked a joke at the public editor’s expense and also called him the “dumbest person alive.”

As Lozo explained today—as Lozo learned today—Brady is CEO of Spirited Media, a company which owns a few local sports sites, one of them being Pittsburgh-based news site The Incline—which Lozo contributed to once a week during the last NHL season.

(Is it weird that ESPN’s ombudsman is the CEO of a media company? It is very weird. Perhaps it says something about why Brady’s approach to the Jemele Hill tweets was to prioritize the corporation and its executives over journalism or newsgathering or truth-telling. Perhaps it also says something that Brady insists on using the word “use” to describe what writers are for, rather than “employ” or “work with.” But again we must move on.) [...]

We asked if ESPN has any comment on its public editor having a sustained meltdown over the past few days, and how that fits in with the company’s social media policy. “No,” an ESPN spokesperson told us.

It is probably an exaggeration to say that Jim Brady is the dumbest person alive. But not much of one.
posted by tonycpsu at 4:05 PM on September 18 [9 favorites]


But wait, there's more, from the Times: With a Picked Lock and a Threatened Indictment, Mueller’s Inquiry Sets a Tone
Paul J. Manafort was in bed early one morning in July when federal agents bearing a search warrant picked the lock on his front door and raided his Virginia home. They took binders stuffed with documents and copied his computer files, looking for evidence that Mr. Manafort, President Trump’s former campaign chairman, set up secret offshore bank accounts. They even photographed the expensive suits in his closet.

The special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, then followed the house search with a warning: His prosecutors told Mr. Manafort they planned to indict him, said two people close to the investigation.

The moves against Mr. Manafort are just a glimpse of the aggressive tactics used by Mr. Mueller and his team of prosecutors in the four months since taking over the Justice Department’s investigation into Russia’s attempts to disrupt last year’s election, according to lawyers, witnesses and American officials who have described the approach. Dispensing with the plodding pace typical of many white-collar investigations, Mr. Mueller’s team has used what some describe as shock-and-awe tactics to intimidate witnesses and potential targets of the inquiry.
We already knew about the search warrant, but I believe the threat to indict him is new. And it means they convinced judges there's probable cause for both the FISA warrant and the no-knock search warrant.
posted by zachlipton at 4:10 PM on September 18 [36 favorites]




RYKEY ---

Ibram X Kendi's book is a must read for us all. I read it a year ago and a day doesn't go by without me thinking about it. As much as we might feel that we are not racist, it is burned into our culture and oozes from every pore. His analysis is deep and wide. One sentence still rattles about in my head. I paraphrase... "What does the color of someone's skin have to do with anything?" In this country's history including today and tomorrow and probably years to come it appears to mean a whole lot to a lot of people. St Louis, now, anyone? Our president?

Everyone, please read this book.
posted by njohnson23 at 4:13 PM on September 18 [8 favorites]


What happens if this thing becomes law and the individual market ceases to function? That's not a rhetorical question. Like... do we just let everyone die?
posted by Justinian at 4:15 PM on September 18 [4 favorites]


Yup.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 4:16 PM on September 18 [1 favorite]


Like... do we just let everyone die?

Isn't that basically what happened before? So yes.
posted by thefoxgod at 4:17 PM on September 18 [2 favorites]


There won't even be Panels.
posted by Burhanistan at 4:19 PM on September 18 [3 favorites]


Before there was an individual market. You had trouble if you had a pre-existing condition or were poor or working class, yes, but lots of people still got covered. The scale of the issue will be an order of magnitude greater under this proposed law.
posted by Justinian at 4:21 PM on September 18 [5 favorites]


Oh I see what you mean. In my experience the individual market pre-ACA was pretty bad (either super expensive or useless), but it could be even worse now I guess.
posted by thefoxgod at 4:23 PM on September 18 [1 favorite]


There won't even be Panels.

Instead there will be Adam Smith's invisible hand choosing who lives and dies.
posted by JackFlash at 4:23 PM on September 18 [2 favorites]


VIRGINIA HOUSE ELECTIONS - HD 51-55

intro
1-5
6-10
11-15
16-20
21-25
26-30
31-35
36-40
41-45
46-50

===

51st District
Currently GOP seat
R cand: Richard Anderson (incumbent)
D cand: Hala Ayala

DC suburbs (Prince William), 68.8% white. Incumbent first elected in 2009. R won 54-46 in 2013, no D candidate in 2015. Clinton won district 52-43.

===

52nd District
Currently Dem seat
R cand: none
D cand: Luke Torian (incumbent)

DC suburbs (Prince William), 42.3% white. Incumbent first elected in 2009. No R candidate in 2013 or 2015. Clinton won district 73-23.

===

53rd District
Currently Dem seat
R cand: none
D cand: Marcus Simon (incumbent)

DC suburbs (Falls Church), 60.6% white. Incumbent first elected in 2013. D won 67-29 in 2013, no R candidate in 2015. Clinton won district 71-22. There is an independent candidate.

===

54th District
Currently GOP seat
R cand: Bobby Orrock (incumbent)
D cand: Al Durante

Midway between DC and Richmond, 72.9% white. Incumbent first elected in 1989. No D candidate in 2013 or 2015. Trump won district 53-42.

===

55th District
Currently GOP seat
R cand: Buddy Fowler Jr. (incumbent)
D cand: Morgan Goodman

Midway between DC and Richmond, 79.5% white. Incumbent first elected in 2013. R won 57-38 in 2013 and 60-40 in 2015. Trump won district 58-37.

===

Next time: 56-60
posted by Chrysostom at 4:24 PM on September 18 [25 favorites]


Before there was an individual market. You had trouble if you had a pre-existing condition or were poor or working class, yes, but lots of people still got covered. The scale of the issue will be an order of magnitude greater under this proposed law.

Yeah, but that's a problem for Future Mitch and Future Paul. 2017 Mitch and 2017 Paul like this just fine, even if they sorta know that Future Mitch and Future Paul are going to curse them.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 4:25 PM on September 18


It would take a year or so to fully collapse, right? Insurance policies are contracts. They can't jack up premiums mid-year, and this year's prices are already set. Next year's enrollment period is when we'd see insane death spiral prices. I think.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 4:25 PM on September 18 [1 favorite]


JackFlash: "Instead there will be Adam Smith's invisible hand choosing who lives and dies."

Kind of unfair to Smith, who was less sympathetic to the market than his caricature. See especially his Theory of Moral Sentiments.
posted by Chrysostom at 4:26 PM on September 18 [9 favorites]


Heh, "that's a problem for Future Mitch" does indeed seem to be the motto of the current congress.
posted by Justinian at 4:26 PM on September 18 [6 favorites]


It's not just health and longevity that will be compromised, but financial security, when we revert to the scourge of medical bankruptcy.

Before the ACA, the single largest cause of personal bankruptcy in the U.S. was due to medical expenses, and the majority of those were folks who had some kind of health care coverage or insurance.

When you get cancer and the meds cost thousands of dollars a month, you reach those lifetime caps fast. Then you go into debt. Then you second-mortgage your house. Then you cash in your retirement.

Then you're truly screwed, and somewhere along the line you start thinking about having to divorce your spouse so you can be declared indigent, so you can go on Medicaid while they keep working.

Real family-friendly public policy, that.
posted by darkstar at 4:37 PM on September 18 [56 favorites]


Kind of unfair to Smith

It's not about Smith. It's about Republicans who do indeed believe that Adam Smith's invisible hand should make life and death decisions.

But you are right. Republicans have perverted Smith's actual beliefs, but here we are.
posted by JackFlash at 4:39 PM on September 18


One of the many horrible things about Graham-Cassidy is that it allows insurance companies to raise your rates at any time. So, say you get a cancer diagnosis. They will be legally able to immediately change your premium to something so high that you have to drop coverage. This, of course, pretty much negates the purpose of having insurance.
posted by mcduff at 4:41 PM on September 18 [52 favorites]


Mr. Mueller and his Team of Prosecutors is my favorite band! The rocked it at Lollapalooza last year.
posted by kirkaracha at 5:03 PM on September 18 [2 favorites]


Hurricane Maria is now a Category 5 hurricane 15 miles from Dominica, passing near the Virgin Islands, and headed directly for Puerto Rico by Wednesday. Trump has signed a disaster declaration.
posted by zachlipton at 5:03 PM on September 18 [3 favorites]


Meanwhile the Senate approved a $700bil increase in military spending. That's over twice what they're proposing to save from kicking 32million people off of health insurance.

This is not about spending. It's about Republicans want to kill American citizens.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:05 PM on September 18 [72 favorites]


Someone must have not told Trump yet because all's quiet on the Twitter front.

I expected a three tweet long tirade of "DEMOCRATS ILLEGALLY TAPPED MY TOWER!"
posted by Talez at 5:06 PM on September 18 [6 favorites]


I hope the glass-jawed nazi from Seattle today also gets to lose his job after he's doxxed. A lot of people on Twitter wringing their hands about "innocent civilians" getting punched, but I kind of feel like wearing a nazi armband makes you neither. You put on the uniform, you become a combatant.
posted by ctmf at 5:55 PM on September 18 [38 favorites]


It's about Republicans want to kill American citizens.
I can understand two parts of this equation, but the last one completely baffles me. Like, my family is full of people who think that they pulled themselves up by their bootstraps. (Nevermind that my grandfather avoided starving to death thanks to his father getting hired to plant trees where none were needed as part of the WPA and that he joined the Navy at 17 with a note from his mom so he could eat on the government's dime in the 40's. They still pulled themselves up by their bootstraps, obvs.) These people resent giving "lazy poor people" things "for free." They are also quite dedicated to the idea that having the gubbiment force you to get insurance is fascism. I don't agree with either of these things, but I get these points of view.

But what totally breaks down for me is depriving others of their humanity. There are very few people that I wouldn't piss on if they were on fire, and even those people deserve health care. Because they are people. Human beings. How can people like McCain and Graham look themselves in the mirror and call themselves Christian if they're willing to unceremoniously dump millions of people off of their health plans? I just can't fathom it. It's like a tweet I saw a few weeks back--I don't know how to explain to you that you should care about other people.
posted by xyzzy at 6:11 PM on September 18 [22 favorites]


Weird that both Don Jr and Kellyanne are refusing secret service but I'm sure it's just because it's invasive, right?
posted by Brainy at 6:32 PM on September 18 [9 favorites]


ELECTIONS NEWS

** AL senate special:
-- New JMC Analytics poll has Moore ahead of Strange 50-42, indicating maybe some slight tightening, but not much.

-- First round candidate and House Freedom Caucus guy Mo Brooks has endorsed Moore. [Roll Call]

-- Trump, who had endorsed Strange first round, but then had fallen quiet, will be coming to campaign with him. [HuffPo]
** 2018 Senate -- WPA Intelligence poll has state Treasurer Kelly Schmidt up 48-44 over Sen Heidi Heitkamp. Schmidt hasn't even declared, so someone may be up to something with this poll.

** VA gov:
-- Two new polls in for this race, which has been pretty lightly surveyed so far. Princeton Survey Research has Northam up 44-39, while Suffolk has it tied at 42-42. I've seen some discussion that maybe the Suffolk under-sampled Dems, but you need to be careful not to cherry pick.

-- Northam way ahead in the money race, with $7.2M raised in Jul/Aug and $5.6M on hand, versus Gillespie's $3.7M and $2.6M, respectively.
** 2018 House:
-- Mentioned upstream, the DCCC is raising record amounts, and outraising the GOP.

-- Former GOP Rep Mike Grimm is thinking of running for his old NY-11 seat. You might remember his forced resignation and prison time for tax fraud.
posted by Chrysostom at 6:37 PM on September 18 [17 favorites]


I am all hearts and rainbows that Facebook getting a search warrant from Mueller.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 6:37 PM on September 18 [11 favorites]


It's because it's invasive, just not in the way you might mean.
posted by VTX at 6:50 PM on September 18


Kellyanne Conway Offended by Emmy ‘Insults About Our Leader’

Verspotten nicht unseren glücklichen Spaßführer.
posted by kirkaracha at 6:50 PM on September 18 [8 favorites]


Google translates that as "do not miss our happy lover."
posted by Archelaus at 6:54 PM on September 18 [7 favorites]


Dang it, it was supposed to be "Do not taunt our happy fun leader"!
According to Google Translate.
posted by kirkaracha at 7:00 PM on September 18 [9 favorites]




Dang it, it was supposed to be "Do not taunt our happy fun leader"!

Spotten Sie nicht unseren glücklichen, lustigen Führer
posted by dis_integration at 7:15 PM on September 18 [8 favorites]


(ein Spaßführer would be like, "Someone who leads the fun". Google translate is still garbage)
posted by dis_integration at 7:17 PM on September 18 [7 favorites]


I've been really busy, so this letter is my first chance to provide some material to use for protesting Graham-Cassidy. I'm so so far out of fucks to give on giving elected Republicans any benefit of the doubt on healthcare. I'm with that T.D. Strange that they want to kill us for tax cuts. Feel free to modify for your own purposes--some of it is pretty inflammatory.
Senator [Whoever],

I am writing to again beg for the lives of approximately 32 million Americans[, including mine/ anyone else you know who uses the system]. I depend on Medicaid for my healthcare and the Graham-Cassidy bill would destroy the program as we know it.

This bill would:

- End the Medicaid expansion, costing 11 million low-income adults their healthcare.

[For Dems. - Make funding into block grants, which would take money from states that don't elect Repubicans to federal office, so Repubicans in other states could spend the money on other items not related to healthcare.]

[For Republicans: - Make funding into block grants, usable for for purposes other than healthcare, and depriving citizens of our state of medical care.]

- Allow insurance companies to deny coverage based on pre-existing conditions, which would exclude [people in your life who would be affected].

- Allow insurance companies to re-instate lifetime coverage caps.

- Allow insurance companies to raise premiums at any time, thus defeating the entire purpose of using insurance to distribute the sharing of risk.

- Cause premiums to spike 20% in the next year.

This bill is even worse than Mitch McConnell's last [murderous] healthcare nightmare. Again, there have been no substantial public hearings, no substantial committee discussion, and none of John McCain's 'regular order' plea. Again McConnell is about to try to ram another bill through with reconciliation but this time without a CBO score!

[Dems: With these repeated attempts to steal healthcare from tens of millions of Americans and the implicit threat of damning hundreds of thousands of us to premature deaths, I can only conclude that Republicans want us to die so their rich friends can get tax cuts. I am no longer willing to extend the benefit of the doubt to them. They. Want. Poor. Americans. To. DIE.

Thus, I fully expect that you will use every procedural process to grind the Senate to a halt. Unanimous consent should never be given. Every vote should be a full role call vote. Quorum calls must be the norm because this bill must never, ever pass any chamber of Congress. It is a murderous monstrosity.

Thank you for continuing your efforts to fight for our healthcare.]

[Republicans: If you truly care about our country and state, you will not support this monstrosity of a bill. If you do, I will campaign against you, donate to your opponents, and make sure every single person i know associates your name and face with the hundreds of thousands who will die prematurely. I will hold you personally responsible for the blood this bill will spill.

With these repeated attempts to steal healthcare from tens of millions of Americans and the implicit threat of damning hundreds of thousands of us to premature deaths, I can only conclude that your party want us to die so your rich masters can get tax cuts. I am no longer willing to extend the benefit of the doubt to your party. You. Want. Poor. Americans. To. DIE.

Prove me wrong and vote against this latest legislative travesty.]


Sincerely,
[Your name]
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 7:22 PM on September 18 [47 favorites]


Given today's revelations I'm gonna guess that what set Trump off about being "wire tapped by Obama" was that somebody told him about the Manafort FISA. He's just not imaginative enough to come up with something like that on his own, there must've been a trigger & his bizarre delayed echolalia took it from there. Mangled & self-serving but with a seed of truth.
posted by scalefree at 7:25 PM on September 18 [7 favorites]


Politico: White House backs pharma partnership after delaying other opioid panel proposals

In which the White House pals around with drug companies about maybe coming up with "non-opioid pain medication, as well as new medication-assisted treatment options" someday, but is dragging its feet on the recommendations of its own commission to declare a national emergency and to waive the prohibition against using Medicaid funds to pay for residential substance abuse treatment, which, you know, would actually help people immediately.
posted by zachlipton at 7:42 PM on September 18 [5 favorites]


I think Republicans have simply embraced Mitt Romney's playbook and taken it to the next level: they want us all to self-deport.
posted by SPrintF at 7:44 PM on September 18 [9 favorites]


The Lawfare gang has posted their analysis of tonight's scoop-o-clock. It's a good read if you're trying to make sense of this all. A highlight:
The significance of this is that it means that Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation has reached a critical stage—the point at which he may soon start making allegations in public. Those allegations may involve conduct unrelated to L’Affaire Russe—that is, alleged bad behavior by Manafort and maybe others that does not involve the Trump campaign—but which may nonetheless serve to pressure Manafort to cooperate on matters more central. Or they may involve conduct that involves his behavior with respect to the campaign itself. Note that if Manafort cooperates, we may not see anything public for a long time to come. Delay, that is, may be a sign of success. But in the absence of cooperation, the fireworks may be about to begin.

On the other hand, it ends "People anticipating a swift end to this drama should temper their expectations."
posted by zachlipton at 8:19 PM on September 18 [17 favorites]


Watergate took two years, Mueller has been on the job less than 5 months.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:35 PM on September 18 [18 favorites]


Mueller doesn't work that way. He is methodical and precise and compiles evidence irrefutable in its completion. Yes, he once raced up the stairwell of a hospital to prevent the formation of a Secret Police, in defiance of his own party, and the hospitalized AG, who was otherwise horrible, agreed that a secret police is a bad idea, but this situation is not that situation.

Obama kept Mueller on for a reason - no matter his personal politics, He Takes His Job Seriously, even if it means going against his own party. I hope.
posted by Slap*Happy at 8:39 PM on September 18 [8 favorites]


NYT: Trump Administration Rejects Study Showing Positive Impact of Refugees
Trump administration officials, under pressure from the White House to provide a rationale for reducing the number of refugees allowed into the United States next year, rejected a study by the Department of Health and Human Services that found that refugees brought in $63 billion more in government revenues over the past decade than they cost.

The draft report, which was obtained by The New York Times, contradicts a central argument made by advocates of deep cuts in refugee totals as President Trump faces an Oct. 1 deadline to decide on an allowable number. The issue has sparked intense debate within his administration as opponents of the program, led by Mr. Trump’s chief policy adviser, Stephen Miller, assert that continuing to welcome refugees is too costly and raises concerns about terrorism.
Some brave civil servants involved in this one.
posted by zachlipton at 9:06 PM on September 18 [67 favorites]


Obama kept Mueller on for a reason - no matter his personal politics, He Takes His Job Seriously, even if it means going against his own party. I hope.

'Course he also kept Comey on for a reason!

I think the fatal mistake made by almost everyone not named Trump in the 2016 election was assuming Trump couldn't win and acting in ways they would not act if they could conceive of it being a real possibility. This includes Obama, Clinton, Sanders, Comey, and everybody else not named Trump.

Hell, it probably includes Trump.
posted by Justinian at 9:26 PM on September 18 [15 favorites]


From Andy Slavitt (Obama healtcare bigwig): BREAKING: Republican leadership now putting all eggs in Graham Cassidy. Word is no bipartisan deal and no waivers. Strong arm calls tonight.

So this is it. They're really going all in on this. Pure evil.
posted by Justinian at 9:54 PM on September 18 [46 favorites]


I hope any Alaska peeps are calling Murkowski pretty much nonstop. Collins seems a firm NO, but Murkowski is going to get the full court press and will be bribed incentivized massively by Republican leadership and seems more wobbly.
posted by Justinian at 9:57 PM on September 18 [1 favorite]


I'm not sure how you solve the problem of having nothing but millionaires as lawmakers naturally insulates them from 95% of their constituency, and makes them sympathetic to the people even richer than they are. We do not make it easy, or even possible, to be anything other than rich to be a candidate.
posted by maxwelton at 10:12 PM on September 18 [13 favorites]


McCain got his military money.
posted by ctmf at 10:23 PM on September 18


I feel like the best strategy might be sending McCain a jar of Metamucil and a bag of prunes, because this thing is basically going to come down to whether he's had a decent bowel movement on the day of the vote.
posted by darkstar at 10:31 PM on September 18




I hope any Alaska peeps are calling Murkowski pretty much nonstop.
I pay regular calls on our senate delegation's local staff (but Sullivan's basically a hopeless case) and have been rounding up friends to do the same.
posted by Nerd of the North at 10:36 PM on September 18 [9 favorites]


Great video of the most recent Nazi-punching.

That one... he was actually wearing the armband. What did he think was going to happen?
posted by Justinian at 10:58 PM on September 18 [12 favorites]


Half an hour ago the president of the United States went on a shitposting tear, retweeting (among others) a "keep it up libs" meme, a train with a MAGA hat photoshopped onto it

So, about that train GIF. If you look on the front of the engine you'll see two white letters on the red body. C & N. Canadian National Rail. That's right, the train's Canadian. Because of course.
posted by scalefree at 11:01 PM on September 18 [12 favorites]


Nazis, boy I don't know .
posted by kirkaracha at 11:14 PM on September 18 [11 favorites]


I have a theory. It explains in one swoop some otherwise inexplicable phenomena that have been the subject of much discussion here & elsewhere.

First we have the persistent feeling that time moves slowly in relation to Trump, especially looking back. It reminds me of nothing so much as a black hole's event horizon. And then you have another phenomenon, the inexhaustible supply of old Trump tweets that just bend the law of probability. It's almost as if he has a time machine he sneaks into the past with to send us horrible tweets he directs at others but really apply to himself today.

Anyway, what if it's real? What if Trump has access to a real time machine (from Area 51 maybe) & for whatever reason he decides to use it to do something completely pointless & stupid by going to just a few years ago & sending time-defying tweets from the past. And it offers an explanation for the Trump time dilation effect as well. The White House time machine is leaking time.

It explains so much.
posted by scalefree at 11:37 PM on September 18 [8 favorites]


Great video of the most recent Nazi-punching.

That one... he was actually wearing the armband. What did he think was going to happen?


Watching this is feeling a little too enjoyable.

Punching Nazis > Not Punching Nazis, but I'm not entirely comfortable with relishing watching some useless shitsack with an armbard get cold-cocked quite this much.
posted by snuffleupagus at 11:58 PM on September 18 [5 favorites]


The real crime is that he had the Nazi armband on the wrong arm.
posted by Justinian at 12:01 AM on September 19 [4 favorites]


I sure wish the nazi getting punched while literally wearing a nazi armband would make the people who say, "oh but how will the antifa know who is a nazi?" to shut up.
posted by ckape at 12:13 AM on September 19 [32 favorites]


I just freaked myself out by contemplating that Washington and Hamilton both saw potential weaknesses in the Republic that could lead to the enterprise not succeeding. Washington with his dislike of partisanship, Hamilton with his idea of the electoral college being some sort of firewall in the event the country just lost its mind and elected a crazy white nationalist.

It's like following a recipe for cookies that has been handed down for generations and there's a big asterisk that says 'don't add the vanilla before folding in the chocolate chips because that's how you get a nuclear explosion in your kitchen' Or something. And because mom's gone the kids are just hey why not follow the vanilla chocolate sequence, what could go wrong.
posted by angrycat at 1:34 AM on September 19 [11 favorites]


That one... he was actually wearing the armband. What did he think was going to happen?

There are still a lot of sub-Cabinet seats open.
posted by Etrigan at 3:27 AM on September 19 [44 favorites]


> the architects of Apartheid deliberately built a whole interlocking set of policies, and that they studied regimes around the world to make it as fundamental and pervasive and persistent as possible. Then he talked about what it had in common with (and, to be fair, what made it different from) America's racial tensions and bigotry

Democrats today face similar questions as those faced by Republicans after 1960 - "the party struggled over which direction to move in, both ideologically and geographically. The party's moderates claimed that their loss had come because they had underorganized in the nation's urban centers... Conservatives in the GOP read the 1960 election results differently... Robert Novak reported on a convention of state party chairs in 1963:"
A good many, perhaps a majority of the party’s leaders, envisioned substantial political gold to be mined in the racial crisis by becoming in fact, though not in name, the White Man’s Party. “Remember,” one astute party worker said quietly over the breakfast table at Denver one morning, “this isn’t South Africa. The white man outnumbers the Negro 9 to 1 in this country.”
and fwiw...
-Clinton on Fresh Air
-The Rumors Have Been Exaggerated
posted by kliuless at 3:45 AM on September 19 [10 favorites]


Please, nobody tell Trump: Governments turn tables by suing public records requesters
posted by Rykey at 3:58 AM on September 19 [2 favorites]


Morgan Freeman warns Russia is waging war on the U.S. We need to pay attention before it’s too late.

Produced by The Committee to Investigate Russia.
The Committee's Advisory Board, which will oversee the progress of the non-profit organization, includes top influencers from both sides of the aisle including Atlantic Senior Editor David Frum, former Director of National Intelligence James Clapper, Council on Foreign Relations Senior Fellow Max Boot, American Enterprise Institute Resident Scholar Norman Ornstein, and others.

"This isn't about politics, which is why this project is backed by both conservatives and liberals and people with such deep national security expertise,” said director and Democratic activist Rob Reiner, who also sits on the Advisory Board.

“It's about a foreign invasion. It's important that every American, regardless of party, can stay informed about and understand this critical threat."
I'm still exploring the rest of their site Investigate Russia, but so far it looks like the best comprehensive resource I have seen.
posted by OnceUponATime at 4:04 AM on September 19 [20 favorites]


By the way, the Rob Reiner quoted is indeed the same Rob Reiner who directed the Princess Bride. (Among, y'know, other stuff.)
posted by OnceUponATime at 4:11 AM on September 19 [3 favorites]


Great video of the most recent Nazi-punching.
Buy that man a beer I say. And for all those of you who say No I would like to point out that this is the only language these fuckers understand.
Strutting around with a nazi armband, a punch on the nose is the least he deserves.
Handwringing on the internet will not get rid of this menace.
posted by adamvasco at 4:20 AM on September 19 [23 favorites]


Yes, he once raced up the stairwell of a hospital to prevent the formation of a Secret Police, in defiance of his own party

You're mixing up Mueller and Comey, right? If Mueller was there too, I'll have to update my diorama.
posted by petebest at 4:57 AM on September 19 [10 favorites]


he was actually wearing the armband. What did he think was going to happen?

Valentine from Stephen Miller where he misspells "Rike" adorably!
posted by petebest at 5:13 AM on September 19 [1 favorite]


If Mueller was there too, I'll have to update my diorama.

According to his notes, he was there too. He was there a little late, shortly after the confrontation with Alberto Gonzales and Andrew Card.
posted by peeedro at 5:14 AM on September 19 [5 favorites]


presented without further comment: 2017, scene 27. A newspaper in Charlottesville reports on Nazi-punching:

While not connected to Sunday’s incident, the [Alex] Jones confrontation happened just blocks away from where the man was punched.
posted by petebest at 5:24 AM on September 19


Anyway, what if it's real? What if Trump has access to a real time machine (from Area 51 maybe)

No, everyone knows he got from his physicist uncle who reviewed and analyzed Tesla's papers in 1943 for the National Defense research committee.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 5:45 AM on September 19 [3 favorites]


The best part of that latest Nazi Punching: https://twitter.com/SeattlePD/status/909843749227790336

"Police were on scene in 5 mins & found him on the ground. He declined to provide info about incident & left after removing his armband."

Punching Nazis works.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 5:49 AM on September 19 [53 favorites]


I like what the guy said afterward...'Now there ain't nothing to talk about.' (or something close to that)
posted by ian1977 at 6:16 AM on September 19


Punching Nazis works.

Sometimes. Sometimes it's a horrible tactic. It's always emotionally satisfying, though. Which is why it's so important to be careful about employing it as a tactic.
posted by Rykey at 6:17 AM on September 19 [7 favorites]


Punching Nazis works.

Sometimes.


Well, that's better than a few months back when Serious People were telling us about how it never works because it just makes Nazis mad and turns rational people into Nazis.

So maybe by February or so, when someone punches a fucking Nazi who was fucking wearing a fucking swastika on a fucking armband for fucking long enough that fucking Twitter was fucking able to fucking crowdsource a fucking punch to his fucking Nazi face, people will be done with the fucking handwringing.
posted by Etrigan at 6:29 AM on September 19 [63 favorites]


Nazis, boy I don't know .

I'm tellin' ya, Animal, these Nazis just ain't kosher!
posted by Capt. Renault at 6:44 AM on September 19 [1 favorite]


Pretty soon Trump is going to be getting up in front of the UN to give a speech. Will we get teleprompter Trump or off script Trump? How many minutes will it take for pundits around the world to proclaim that this is the day he became president? Will he notice how Antonio Guterres basically just took a giant shit on him?

The world waits with bated breath.
posted by Talez at 6:48 AM on September 19 [3 favorites]


kirkaracha: Verspotten Sie nicht unseren glücklichen Spaßführer.

dis_integration: Spotten Sie nicht unseren glücklichen, lustigen Führer

Either spotten über or verspotten, but not spotten on its own. I prefer kirkiracha's translation (with the added Sie). I'm pretty sure a native German speaker wouldn't use Spaßführer like that, but "Happy Fun Ball" sounds, to me, like a product name that was poorly translated into English from another language, so the slightly mangled translation of a slightly mangled translation here works for me :)
posted by syzygy at 6:49 AM on September 19 [1 favorite]


People who get very exercised about someone punching a guy who advocates exterminating, frex, approximately 80% of my friends/colleagues/neighbors are not going to be reliable allies. I mean, if someone walked up to me in a bar and said "I would like to put you and your closest friends in a gas chamber and kill you, along with almost everyone on your street, including the babies", those are fighting words.

It's not that people need to think "hey, punching is the best way to solve problems, we definitely ought to punch more", but if someone is wasting the internet worrying about people who openly advocate genocide getting knocked down, well, at least you know where their priorities lie.

You can't walk around wearing a swastika in Germany, and Germany isn't exactly a hellscape of government oppression - there's no real reason why people have to be entitled to do so here.
posted by Frowner at 6:50 AM on September 19 [54 favorites]


You can't walk around wearing a swastika in Germany, and Germany isn't exactly a hellscape of government oppression - there's no real reason why people have to be entitled to do so here.

You can't do it in Germany because it's illegal to do so in Germany - they don't have nearly the protection of free expression that we do, and I think that's not always a good thing.

The correct solution is a partnership of legal and extralegal means: it should be legal to wear a Nazi armband in America, but it's moral to punch someone wearing it who is - as this guy was - actively harassing minorities in the streets.
posted by corb at 6:54 AM on September 19 [14 favorites]


Thank you Excommunicated Cardinal for the talking points. I just faxed (via resistbot) a version to garbage human Marco Rubio.
posted by photoslob at 6:56 AM on September 19 [3 favorites]


Hey, I'm no pacifist. I like watching swastika-wearers get punched. But I'm also not blind to history. It's not hand-wringing to consider what might happen when Nazi assholes punch back—especially what might happen to people less privileged than (white, straight, cis male) me. It's realizing how easily tit-for-tat violence can spin out of control.

We've not seen Troubles-level violence here, and in a country where every other person is armed—mostly on the wrong side—I don't want to find out what it's like. Punch, shoot, do whatever you need to do when it's time to; just don't gleefully hasten that time's arrival by declaring "Punching Nazis works" across the board when sometimes it doesn't, in fact, work the way you think it will.
posted by Rykey at 7:01 AM on September 19 [11 favorites]


For blue state folks who want to do something to stop Graham/Cassidy, here's a tool to call progressive folks with a swing GOP senator and remind them to contact their senator.
posted by mcduff at 7:05 AM on September 19 [5 favorites]


Oh and if you are an US citizen living abroad, here's the tool you can use to call progressive folks with swing GOP senators.
posted by mcduff at 7:06 AM on September 19 [6 favorites]


Re: the punching video.

He holds up his hand at the last second and says, "No, it's fine."

What is fine? Does he mean that he feels he has not overstepped any bounds, and that the large man swarming towards him might be mistaken in thinking that he has?

Or did he see the intent in the man's eyes, and understood and even agreed that it was time to punch him, having maybe wrongfully perceived a small amount of remorse in his attacker's approach?

I maybe think he meant, "It's fine, this is the way we talk on the Internet and nothing bad happens", having forgotten that he was not in fact on the Internet but outside on a sidewalk.

Stunning.
posted by tillermo at 7:09 AM on September 19 [39 favorites]


You can't do it in Germany because it's illegal to do so in Germany - they don't have nearly the protection of free expression that we do, and I think that's not always a good thing.

After seeing the explosion of online harassment and such, I'm on the other side - we Americans fetishize "free speech" to an unhealthy degree, to the point that it actually inhibits free speech and expression for the dispossessed.
posted by NoxAeternum at 7:11 AM on September 19 [54 favorites]


You can't do it in Germany because it's illegal to do so in Germany - they don't have nearly the protection of free expression that we do, and I think that's not always a good thing.

Yes, they don't - and while this has some downsides, what I was trying to get at was that the lack of freedom to be a Nazi hasn't made everything just pearl-clutchingly terrible.

The point about punching Nazis is - and I think that most people on the left understand this - don't do it if you can't win. Use the winning tactic. If that's a peaceful demonstration, do that. If it's calling people's employers, do that. If it's punching them and knocking them down, do that. Unless you are a pacifist, which is fine, that's your thing, the obvious way to deal with Nazis is to think first and use the tactic that wins.

Also, I think that there's this weird mindset that somehow defeating Nazis by punching is going to make them madder than defeating them by mockery, the forces of the law, calling their employers, etc. If a Nazi is defeated by being punched, yeah, he's going to be mad; if a Nazi loses his job because his employer won't tolerate his behavior, he's going to be mad. If a Nazi gets arrested because Shaun King et al identify him, he's going to be mad. They're all going to be mad, because what they want is to be able to trample others with no criticism and no consequences.

Here in Minneapolis, we have an illustrious history of Nazi-punching, and it's one of the reasons that we have successfully rebuffed a lot of Nazi youth activists, who see this as a great place to organize, since at least the eighties. It's not the only reason, but I can testify from what I've seen with my own eyes that punching is sometimes the best choice.
posted by Frowner at 7:15 AM on September 19 [43 favorites]


*sigh*

Regarding the original video, YouTube now has this to say: "This video has been removed for violating YouTube's policy on harassment and bullying."

Yup. That's what that was, YouTube. You keep being you.

"The Troubles" are basically locked in at this point, no matter what we do.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 7:16 AM on September 19 [21 favorites]


I like what the guy said afterward...'Now there ain't nothing to talk about.' (or something close to that)

I think he said "now that's what I'm talking about," which is delightful because it works both as the non-specific exhortatory phrase it's generally deployed as, and because it's literally true of all of us here. Pleasing wordplay and satisfying Nazi-punching, all in one brief video!
posted by penduluum at 7:17 AM on September 19 [2 favorites]


The point about punching Nazis is - and I think that most people on the left understand this - don't do it if you can't win.

I agree with you completely - but I don't think that punching a Nazi is somehow less moral than the other options on that list, as I think some (though probably not you) think. I find the idea that firing a Nazi is fine but punching them is somehow beyond the pale to be..well, really weird to say the least.
posted by corb at 7:22 AM on September 19


Ankit Panda is live-tweeting DJT's address to the UN. It's predictably bonkers!
posted by witchen at 7:25 AM on September 19 [4 favorites]


If I saw a Nazi on the street, I probably wouldn't punch him because I'm a lousy puncher. Instead, I'd film him for a few seconds to get a good recording of his face, and then I'd shout, "Hey, everybody! There's a Nazi over here! Real live Nazi, right here!"

I'm no good at punching, but I'm quite loud.
posted by Faint of Butt at 7:26 AM on September 19 [36 favorites]


How Cassidy-Graham Would Make Single Payer More Likely
Graham’s weird promise that his plan “ends single-payer health care” has somehow taken hold, to the point where Republicans appear to believe it would foreclose even public debate on left-wing alternatives. The bill “stops us from having conversation in the future about Medicare for all,” claims Senator Tim Scott.
...
What could alter that internal calculus? If Republicans repealed Obamacare. It would make it easier for the left to argue that the program’s compromise structure is a failure, that its markets are inherently susceptible to sabotage by Republican administrations, and that the risk of political capital is worthwhile. And the method used to pass repeal — a hastily assembled reconciliation bill devoid of serious analysis — would make fools of the party’s Senate institutionalists. Democrats would be incentivized to pass a sweeping 50-vote Medicare expansion, with the goal of creating as many beneficiaries as possible, as quickly as possible.

posted by T.D. Strange at 7:31 AM on September 19 [8 favorites]


I like what the guy said afterward...'Now there ain't nothing to talk about.' (or something close to that)

I think he said "now that's what I'm talking about..."


He said "there ain't nothing to talk about, n****"

As in, no, we're not going to discuss whether it's 'fine', enjoy your nap-time.

People who get very exercised about someone punching a guy who advocates exterminating, frex, approximately 80% of my friends/colleagues/neighbors are not going to be reliable allies.

Yeah, OK, anyone even concerned that we might be going in the wrong direction in terms of street violence is "not going to be a reliable ally." Nice.

The point about punching Nazis is - and I think that most people on the left understand this - don't do it if you can't win.

Yes, punch Nazis. But maybe a little less glee. And maybe not in ways that directly cater to the twitter-terrorists narrative the alt-right is trying to hang on antifa.
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:32 AM on September 19 [2 favorites]


I think that there's this weird mindset that somehow defeating Nazis by punching is going to make them madder

The fear is not that it makes the Nazis madder. It's that it makes the low-information Americans who hear about it scared-er. Scared people tend to seek comfort in the strong arms of authoritarians.
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:32 AM on September 19 [10 favorites]


"i have returned from the streets with peace for our time" –people who don't believe in nazi punching
posted by entropicamericana at 7:36 AM on September 19 [4 favorites]


"Nazis get clocked" is an excellent message for the low-information voter.
posted by whuppy at 7:37 AM on September 19 [32 favorites]


Trump is threatening to "totally destroy North Korea" but it's okay because it's just to the entire UN.
posted by Brainy at 7:40 AM on September 19 [11 favorites]


If Republicans repealed Obamacare. It would make it easier for the left to argue that the program’s compromise structure is a failure, that its markets are inherently susceptible to sabotage by Republican administrations, and that the risk of political capital is worthwhile. And the method used to pass repeal — a hastily assembled reconciliation bill devoid of serious analysis — would make fools of the party’s Senate institutionalists. Democrats would be incentivized to pass a sweeping 50-vote Medicare expansion, with the goal of creating as many beneficiaries as possible, as quickly as possible.

"The left arguing things" hardly has a successful track record over the last several decades. "Making fools of Senate institutionalists" is such inside baseball that I can't fathom how it could possibly impact the average voter.

And while "Republican sabotage" is a more workable, accessible angle, it lacks the punch that this issue demands. "Republicans don't care if you live or die": that has to be the essence of it. C'mon, Democratic Party, this is your friggin' moment.
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 7:41 AM on September 19 [7 favorites]


I guess I keep returning to the German model because I think that there has to be a line. Whenever you're saying "you can do what you like but only up to this point", you're going to get arguments, because different people want different lines. But as we see from online harassment and right-wing violence, free speech absolutism seems to skew more naturally right wing, because it gives more power to people who actively want to use speech to hurt and frighten, and it doesn't take the silencing effect of threats into account. So to my mind, there needs to be a formal or informal line. It's better to have everyone agree formally in words, but punching will do if needed.

My vague sense is that we have to put up with all kinds of garbage from garbage mouths if we want somewhat free speech, but that the line absolutely must be drawn somewhere around advocating formal discrimination on racial lines, genocide, expulsions on racial lines, formal discrimination on gender, sexuality, ethnicity, gender identity,etc lines, advocating violence based on gender, sexuality, sexual identity, immigration status, health, unhomed status, etc. If we're going to build a society with any kind of moral growth, we can't always be saying "let's reopen the question of whether queer people should be fired/beaten/etc because of their sexuality" or "let's reopen the question of whether women should be allowed to own property", etc. At some point we have to say that those questions are settled and that reopening them is destructive and only undertaken from base motives.

In re "making people scareder": some huge majority of white Americans thought that Martin Luther King was a dangerous extremist. In the eighties, some huge percentage of my town thought that the communists were going to invade and that there was a fifth column which had to be suppressed - and I know, because I was the fifth column they were trying to suppress for my alleged "communism" when I was ten and had no more idea of what communism was than how to build a computer from scratch.. My grandmother made my grandfather get a pistol, which he kept unloaded and locked up, because she believed that the Chinese were going to invade over the back garden fence.

You can't sit there and say "well, we'll just let this guy walk on down the street with his swastika armband, we'll just let the alt-right beat up the pastors at the protest, we'll just let the Nazis protest outside the YWCA because they want to terrorize the women of color who use it (which happened here, or would have happened except that there were many of us and the Nazis knew there'd be a mighty punching if they tried it, so they went home) because otherwise Theoretical Sympathetic White People might go right wing."

My dad does not care for antifa a-tall. That doesn't change how he votes. He thinks Black Lives Matter is kind of too militant, but he still thinks that their grievances are legit and should be addressed. People who sympathize with the cause but not the tactics aren't going to go over to the Nazis because they think that chanting "No cops, no KKK, no fascist USA" is too stroppy.
posted by Frowner at 7:42 AM on September 19 [52 favorites]


Graham’s weird promise that his plan “ends single-payer health care” has somehow taken hold, to the point where Republicans appear to believe it would foreclose even public debate on left-wing alternatives. The bill “stops us from having conversation in the future about Medicare for all,” claims Senator Tim Scott.

Presumably because it destroys Medicare -- first as a federally-directed program, by converting it to block grants that states can spend on whatever they want (including something other than Medicare) and then entirely, by eliminating those grants altogether in 2026. Can't have Medicare for all if there's no Medicare! < thinking.jpg>
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 7:43 AM on September 19 [1 favorite]




This speech at the UN is some weird shit.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 7:43 AM on September 19 [11 favorites]


Trump is threatening to "totally destroy North Korea" but it's okay because it's just to the entire UN.

Am pretty sure that the UN knows by now what a nutcase he is.

The question is, why are they letting him speak to them? What are they hoping to accomplish?
posted by Melismata at 7:45 AM on September 19 [5 favorites]


HZSF, I think you mean ACA Medicaid Expansion, not Medicare, unless I've missed something huge
posted by paper chromatographologist at 7:46 AM on September 19 [2 favorites]


[One deleted, folks, please let it rest re: nazi punching. People have aired their views on this plenty in recent months, not a lot is being accomplished by another rehash.]
posted by LobsterMitten at 7:47 AM on September 19 [7 favorites]


"The left arguing things" hardly has a successful track record over the last several decades. "Making fools of Senate institutionalists" is such inside baseball that I can't fathom how it could possibly impact the average voter.

But inside baseball has been the problem. Obamacare wasn't designed like it was to appeal to voters, it was designed to be the least-worst solution to the problem that could get 60 votes, including 8-12 Senate Democrats who killed any consideration of more progressive solutions like single payer, Medicare buy-in and public option. The next time in power, those people should not be entertained for a year with their demands for impossible compromises with Republicans. Republicans should be shut out completely, and Senate holdouts brought in line with threats to their reelection and seniority if necessary. Process concerns and pleas for bipartisanship are no longer a valid argument against real policy movement.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:47 AM on September 19 [4 favorites]


Yeah, I don't think this is new to anyone there. He's just saying aloud what he's already tweeted. I'm hopeful (?) that the overall effect will be not taking him seriously, and letting other grownups do the real work while Trump is mollified after having spoken like a big tough guy.
posted by witchen at 7:48 AM on September 19 [1 favorite]


This speech at the UN is some weird shit.

Someone to check to see if he plagiarized President John Sheridan there at the end.
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:48 AM on September 19 [4 favorites]


You know, Trump is probably threatening to destroy North Korea because he thinks it will distract people from healthcare, etc. He either doesn't understand or doesn't care that he's going to bloviate us into some kind of nuclear or regular military conflict.

I had a conversation with my socialist buddies back in summer 2016 where they were all "I don't want to vote for Hillary because she will start WWIII", and I was all "but Trump is evil, why do you think he won't get us into some evil war", and we let it go at that. When Minnesota virtually went red on election night, I could have cried. I just don't understand why people could possibly think, given the way American military conflict has worked historically, that the choice was ever, ever, ever between someone who would not get us into military conflicts and someone who would.
posted by Frowner at 7:50 AM on September 19 [38 favorites]


There's a small part of me that hopes that this whole thing with North Korea is a wrestling-style work between the two leaders.
posted by drezdn at 7:52 AM on September 19 [3 favorites]


HZSF, I think you mean ACA Medicaid Expansion, not Medicare, unless I've missed something huge

You're right, I keep getting them swapped up.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 7:52 AM on September 19 [1 favorite]


Trump is threatening to "totally destroy North Korea" but it's okay because it's just to the entire UN.

Am pretty sure that the UN knows by now what a nutcase he is.

The question is, why are they letting him speak to them? What are they hoping to accomplish?


TMW you realize that the President of the United States just delivered a Doctor Doom-style ultimatum to the United Nations.
posted by Strange Interlude at 7:56 AM on September 19 [19 favorites]


Yes, maybe Trump will strap Kim to a chair and shave his head and they will consider their beef settled.
posted by contraption at 7:56 AM on September 19 [3 favorites]


TMW you realize that the President of the United States just delivered a Doctor Doom-style ultimatum to the United Nations.

Doctor Doom, or possibly the Red Skull.

(@PresVillain is sorely in need of an update after this speech.)
posted by cjelli at 8:00 AM on September 19 [1 favorite]


TMW you realize that the President of the United States just delivered a Doctor Doom-style ultimatum to the United Nations.

I have really chafed at comparisons between supervillains and 45, because usually supervillains are at least good at something. Intentionally. So I have rejected pretty much all of them.

Then Jay and Miles gave the perfect analogy on their latest XPlaintheXMen podcast discussing current politics: he's functionally Mojo.

I can't argue with that one. At all.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 8:03 AM on September 19 [15 favorites]


It wasn't just NK. He basically called for the UN to endorse replacement of the "murderous regime" in Iran, and called the current deal an "embarrassment."
posted by snuffleupagus at 8:04 AM on September 19 [3 favorites]


This speech at the UN is some weird shit.

IT'S MILLER TIME!
posted by Talez at 8:05 AM on September 19 [5 favorites]


Since we've descended into parody with Trump is calling Kim "Rocket Man" at the UN, here's Chris Elliott's parody of Shatner's Rocket Man.
posted by peeedro at 8:05 AM on September 19


There's a small part of me that hopes that this whole thing with North Korea is a wrestling-style work between the two leaders.

Trump fucked up a clothesline the last time he was involved in an angle. To correctly administer a clothesline, you need to do two things:
1) Stick your arm out.
2) Move forward.
He fucked that up. We can find no solace in him thinking that this is a work, because he can somehow manage to fuck up not starting a nuclear war.
posted by Etrigan at 8:06 AM on September 19 [8 favorites]


The New Yorker has a really good, in-depth piece up about Trump and North Korea; it was worth reading anyway, but I guess this speech kicks it up to damn-near-required-reading.
posted by the phlegmatic king at 8:09 AM on September 19 [13 favorites]


Then Jay and Miles gave the perfect analogy on their latest XPlaintheXMen podcast discussing current politics: he's functionally Mojo.

When they said that, I couldn't believe I'd never thought of it before. It's flawless!
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:11 AM on September 19


Trump is threatening to "totally destroy North Korea" but it's okay because it's just to the entire UN.

"Hans..."
posted by delfin at 8:11 AM on September 19 [3 favorites]


The VA gov race is tightening, but hopefully that means that NoVa dems will be fired up and not complacent, right, RIGHT?!? At this point, I think it's mostly about Northam's lack of name recognition, and with extra money hopefully he can plaster NORTHAM=DEMOCRAT through the northern suburbs.

It's good to see that the Democrats are moving (mostly) together, while Gillespie still has racist Stewart hung around his neck

The Va. governor’s race still hears a lot from the guys who lost the nomination fights
“Whenever I can be useful, I’m there,” Perriello said after his appearance at Virginia Commonwealth University. “This is an all-hands-on-deck moment. I was very clear with the Northam campaign and party that if I can be helpful, put me in.”

Perriello is leading Win Virginia, a political action committee that is trying to help Democrats build their numbers in the GOP-controlled House of Delegates in November. The PAC is especially focused on 17 Republican seats in districts where Hillary Clinton beat Donald Trump in last year’s presidential election.

Perriello, who estimated he covered 800 miles last weekend promoting Northam and Democratic House candidates, is on the campaign trail for Northam in a way that’s unusual even for good sports. The primary loser is expected to promptly concede, endorse the winner and pretty much fade away.

That hasn’t happened on the Republican side either. After narrowly losing the GOP primary to Gillespie, Corey A. Stewart has stayed visible — but not in a way that’s likely to help Gillespie, who polls show is locked in a close contest with the Democrat.
posted by Hermeowne Grangepurr at 8:14 AM on September 19 [7 favorites]


There's a small part of me that hopes that this whole thing with North Korea is a wrestling-style work between the two leaders.

BAH GAWD, THAT'S BARACK OBAMA'S MUSIC!
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 8:16 AM on September 19 [10 favorites]


Trying to apply Trump's Mirror to the "Rocket Man" business, and this is where I'm at:


And all this nuance, I don't understand
It's just my job, five days a week
A racket man, a racket man

And I hope its going to be a long long time
Till MAGA hats bring me down again and find
I'm not the man they think I am at home
Oh no, no, no I'm a racket man
Racket man burning out his grift up here alone
posted by nubs at 8:16 AM on September 19 [7 favorites]


Back to healthcare scripts real quick - today I am going to search through my family address book to find all of my red state family and ask them to call their Senators. Here is the script I am using (borrowing some phrases from Excommunicated Cardinal - thanks!). It is as non-inflammatory as I know how to be because I am writing to Republicans who I don't even like. Feel free to use and adapt for your own family and friends.

Dear family -

I know we don't often talk politics, and there may be areas where we disagree. But I feel I have to ask you to speak out against the health insurance bill currently before the Senate.

[personal story about our shared family members with preexisting conditions who may not received coverage under this bill]

The bill would, among other things:

- Allow insurance companies to deny coverage based on pre-existing conditions, which would exclude our family member.

- Allow insurance companies to re-instate lifetime coverage caps.

- Allow insurance companies to raise premiums at any time, thus defeating the entire purpose of using insurance to distribute the sharing of risk.

- Cause premiums to spike 20% in the next year.

- End the Medicaid expansion, costing 11 million low-income adults their healthcare.

The opposition to this bill is nonpartisan among Americans. Because it is technically an amendment to an existing bill, there are only 90 seconds of debate remaining on it. It will not get better.

Living in a blue state, I know that my senators will oppose the bill. So, on behalf of [OUR FAMILY MEMBER THAT WE LOVE], please call your senator and ask them to vote against it.

The Senate switchboard number is: 202-224-3121. Here is a potential script:

"Hello, I am [Name] from [address & zip]. I am calling to ask Senator X to oppose the Graham-Cassidy health insurance bill. We should be helping more people get access to healthcare, not fewer. This plan will make it more expensive for my family to access necessary medical care. Allowing people with preexisting conditions to receive health insurance saves lives, and that is very important to me. Will Senator X commit to voting no to protect people who need lifesaving healthcare?" [Wait for an answer, then thank them for their time.]

Please make this call today. It would mean so much to me.

Love
Emmy Rae
posted by Emmy Rae at 8:21 AM on September 19 [28 favorites]


Planned Parenthood canvassed my neighborhood in NoVA over the weekend, so they're definitely not putting off the voter engagement.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:21 AM on September 19 [4 favorites]


Since we've descended into parody with Trump is calling Kim "Rocket Man" at the UN

Wait, that was [real]? I just assumed that was a funny paraphrase.
posted by corb at 8:25 AM on September 19 [4 favorites]


Yep, [real].
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:27 AM on September 19 [1 favorite]


[real] corb. [real]
posted by Sophie1 at 8:27 AM on September 19 [7 favorites]


NBC: Senate Cancels Meeting With Trump Lawyer Michael Cohen
Senate investigators probing Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election cancelled a Tuesday interview with longtime Trump lawyer Michael Cohen because they believe Cohen broke an agreement by speaking with the media.

The committee will now subpoena Cohen, a source with direct knowledge of the matter told NBC News.

By mutual agreement, according to the source, neither lawmakers nor Cohen's camp were to speak to reporters about the testimony. Committee staffers were upset when Cohen circulated a statement prior to the meeting that included a blanket denial of collusion with Russia.

It was reported earlier today that the meeting was 'postponed;' it had been scheduled for today.
posted by cjelli at 8:30 AM on September 19 [32 favorites]


Frowner: He either doesn't understand or doesn't care that he's going to bloviate us into some kind of nuclear or regular military conflict.
I disagree with this; I think Trump does understand and does care. Nukes are the biggest, baddest toy there is and he wants to play with them. He wants to be remembered—for good or ill—for being one of the select few who got to play, really got to play with them.

That's why I think there's so much bluster about North Korea. It's not that they're a credible threat—though maybe they will be someday—it's that he wants an excuse to play with the neat toys.

Note: I don't actually know anything about international relations. I do know a little bit about toddlers, though.
posted by ragtag at 8:31 AM on September 19 [18 favorites]


Committee staffers were upset when Cohen circulated a statement prior to the meeting that included a blanket denial of collusion with Russia.

And here's (for the curious) a copy of the opening statement he would have delivered, which will be interesting to contrast with whatever comes out of the subpoena.
posted by cjelli at 8:35 AM on September 19 [6 favorites]


Alleged Serious Adult Person Mitt Romney: "President Trump gave a strong and needed challenge to UN members to live up to its charter and to confront global challenges."

Everything Trump just said is essentially Republican party standard foreign policy. They all want out of the Iran deal. They all want to attack North Korea. All they know is perpetual war in as many countries as possible.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:38 AM on September 19 [13 favorites]


Also, "Rocket Man". In front of the UN. I never thought I'd see the day I'd be nostalgic for Bush and his godawful cowboyisms like "Smoke 'em out", but here we are. If you need me, I'll be crouching in the dark listening to Tom Waits with a bottle of cheap whiskey and a funnel.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 8:38 AM on September 19 [43 favorites]


Everything Trump just said is essentially Republican party standard foreign policy. They all want out of the Iran deal. They all want to attack North Korea. All they know is perpetual war in as many countries as possible.

Also, they want to make sure that everybody in the world knows the United States can't be trusted to keep its promises or pay its debts. No power but bombs for our GOP.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:41 AM on September 19 [8 favorites]


Via TPM: Real Fake News* - Republican Gov Association Quietly Launches Site Branded As News Outlet
The Free Telegraph blares headlines about the virtues of GOP governors, while framing Democrats negatively. It asks readers to sign up for breaking news alerts. It launched in the summer bearing no acknowledgement that it was a product of an official party committee whose sole purpose is to get more Republicans elected.

Only after The Associated Press inquired about the site last week was a disclosure was added to The Free Telegraph’s pages identifying the publication’s partisan source.
...
The content is far tamer than from some sites from that popped up during the 2016 presidential campaign to propagate sensational but baseless stories. But it does create a cache of headlines that could turn up in campaigns.

The first test is in this fall’s Virginia governor’s race pitting Democratic nominee Ralph Northam against Republican Ed Gillespie. Virginians already have seen another site, The Republican Standard, that is run by Virginia Republican operatives with ties to Gillespie, a former state and national party chairman, and to a firm that has been paid by the RGA. The Free Telegraph and its social media accounts frequently link The Republican Standard.
I don't know if it's better to characterize that as an effort to de-legitimize real reporting or to legitimize propaganda; neither, obviously, is good.

*Not to be confused with Real Fake Doors
posted by cjelli at 8:42 AM on September 19 [11 favorites]


I unfortunately agree with ragtag. Trump **WANTS** an atomic war. He is perfectly, 100% content, to see the entire population of the greater Seoul region dead from DPRK artillery, in fact he wants that too because it'd give him a great excuse to nuke the fuck out of the DPRK.

Trump doesn't want to drop just one nuke, he wants to fire off dozens of ICBM's and watch the biggest fireworks display the planet has ever seen all for his glory. He wants the sheer elite joy of being the only US president to have ever used an ICBM, and to upstage Truman by using not just two nukes, but dozens, and of course much bigger nukes than Truman got to play with.

Make no mistake: Trump wants not just war, but atomic war. He is desperate for a chance to launch nukes.
posted by sotonohito at 8:44 AM on September 19 [15 favorites]


And it'll be ICBM's he uses too. He likes the big phallic rocket thing.
posted by sotonohito at 8:45 AM on September 19


Weird that both Don Jr and Kellyanne are refusing secret service but I'm sure it's just because it's invasive, right?

According to Newsweek, it has to do with the Secret Service's blown budget. It is unclear to me how much say either had in the matter. Multiple stories are reporting both. I'm sure it looks better to say you turned it down rather than be told you're not on the list.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:50 AM on September 19 [16 favorites]


Also via TPM, Where Things Stand With The Senate’s Last-Ditch Obamacare Repeal Push.

Which is of course depressing as hell. There are several apparent holdout senators, but there's 90 seconds left on the Senate debate clock to satisfy John McCain's need for hearings and debate, and who knows, maybe that's enough?

Here's the last bit of the article, though, a real highlight for me:

“I call [bill co-author Bill Cassidy] the grave robber,” Sen. John Thune (R-SD) told reporters. “This thing was six feet under. Now there’s a lot of buzz and momentum, but it still comes down to getting 50 votes.”

Yuk, yuk, yuk. And if they pass this bill, real people will be be six feet under instead. Can't you feel the glee?
posted by RedOrGreen at 8:51 AM on September 19 [11 favorites]


In light of the fact that Republicans are now creating their own "fake news" and outrage sites, I think this article is going to be prophetic in how democratic politicians will have to navigate the media landscape. First it's just the women and minority candidates who will have to deal with it, and then the white men are going to be stuck with it more and more:

Vox: Hillary Clinton’s “coal gaffe” is a microcosm of her twisted treatment by the media
The mainstream media has another trick. Remember how a Thing that’s not worth covering becomes newsworthy once it’s a Scandal-About-the-Thing, thus indemnifying the media of any responsibility for covering a Thing that’s actually nothing?

That’s prospective indemnity. There’s also retrospective indemnity. Once it becomes clear that the Scandal-About-the-Thing is also a giant nothingburger unworthy of the intensive coverage it’s gotten, the media pivots again. The story is no longer the Scandal-About-the-Thing, it’s ... Clinton’s-Response-to-the-Scandal-About-the-Thing. The real scandal is her response to the fake scandal!
Note: this is NOT an effort to re-litigate the Clinton rules, election, etc, but for the discussion of the mechanisms to get news out of the outrage-response cycle. How can we get mainstream media to stop perpetuating the manufactured right-wing outrage as something that is worthy to cover?
posted by Hermeowne Grangepurr at 8:56 AM on September 19 [33 favorites]


...and not to abuse the edit window, but a few anti-Northam ads have slipped into my Facebook feed. Lots of attacks about how he "failed to create budget plan", and he's so "lazy", with outrage on "scandals" that I never heard about during his time at Lt. Governor. I bet these same "scandals" are probably found on the front page of The Free Telegraph. :c
posted by Hermeowne Grangepurr at 9:00 AM on September 19 [3 favorites]


I don't know what U.S. politician wouldn't pledge to retaliate against the DPRK in the event of an attack on the U.S. or an ally. This isn't just standard GOP foreign policy, nor standard U.S. foreign policy, but the bedrock of nuclear deterrence. However, it's usually stated rather more delicately than our president has done today.
posted by chrchr at 9:02 AM on September 19 [1 favorite]


It's uh, not usually stated with such an eager edge to it, is the big takeaway.
posted by Archelaus at 9:07 AM on September 19 [6 favorites]


the discussion of the mechanisms to get news out of the outrage-response cycle. How can we get mainstream media to stop perpetuating the manufactured right-wing outrage as something that is worthy to cover?

I don't think we can put that back in the box, honestly. Because it's been building for a long time, and is largely a result of the death of thoughtful journalism, which really, when we think about it, only existed for a brief period of time. It's not that the news media was always respectable and serious until now, but rather that for a brief period, investigative journalists were well-paid heroes. When classified ads were found in newspapers, or when there were only a few television channels to split advertising dollars among, you could pay for thoughtful pieces. Now, the profit motive means that the news media needs to get eyeballs, and we're seeing it invade even articles that don't need to be clickbaity, but yet are.

Outrage puts bottoms in seats. Coverage of outrage puts bottoms in seats. It's not just left-wing or right-wing - we are all, as humans, really susceptible to certain kinds of stimulation. Whether the article is 'What These Terrible People Are Saying About Your Beloved Politician" or "Why The Politician You Hate Is Going Down", people will click on it. People can't help themselves.

A great example was the recent thing that went around, that Hillary Clinton "wasn't ruling out" challenging the election. I clicked on it. I couldn't help myself, even though I knew she probably wasn't considering it and this was all a tempest in a teapot, I just had to check out the possibility that she was actually considering it and that the biggest constitutional crisis of our lives might just have fired its first response shot. I'm sure that people who hate Clinton more than I do likewise couldn't stop themselves, in case she was actually challenging their beloved Dear Leader. And so that article got clicks from both sides, and got that sweet sweet advertising money.
posted by corb at 9:07 AM on September 19 [19 favorites]


Trump wants an armaments parade for next July Fourth.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:07 AM on September 19


Somehow I missed that yesterday.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:08 AM on September 19


> Trump wants an armaments parade for next July Fourth.

Yeah, just one more small step in the military fetishization of Mr. Bone-spurs-in-my-right-leg-no-maybe-left. Maybe there will be a float with representations of STDs to commemorate his personal Vietnam.

Spit.
posted by RedOrGreen at 9:14 AM on September 19 [13 favorites]


> However, it's usually stated rather more delicately than our president has done today.

Right, and this isn't just a tone argument. I mean, it is, but "tone" is basically the President's most important job. Other people do the actual work -- the President is just supposed to make it look official and boring and routine so that people don't freak the fuck out. Except this President was chosen by many specifically because his tone is aggrieved, bombastic, and incendiary. This is what his people wanted him to do at the UN, except they'd probably prefer he dropped his drawers and took a shit on the dais as he was walking off.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:23 AM on September 19 [9 favorites]


Donald Trump is the new Qaddafi of the United Nations General Assembly.
There was a time when pariah leaders used the opening of the U.N. General Assembly as a platform to spout all kinds of hateful nonsense. Qaddafi, the former leader of Libya, delivered a 100-minute address in 2009 in which he described the Security Council as a “terror council,” called for an investigation into JFK’s assassination, and referred to Barack Obama as “our Obama.” Mahmoud Ahmadinejad of Iran would regularly use the General Assembly to assert that the U.S. did 9/11 and to chastise Western countries for their “obedience to Satan.” Venezuela’s Hugo Chavez in 2006 memorably also brought up Satan, comparing him to George W. Bush: “The devil came here yesterday, and it smells of sulfur still today.”

We heard a lot this week about how we would see a new, sober Trump at the U.N., but instead we got the American version of Qaddafi. Trump threatened to “totally destroy” North Korea. He referred to Kim Jong-un as “rocket man.” He said parts of the world were “going to hell.” He basically delivered Bush’s notorious Axis of Evil speech, except he excluded Iraq, added some choice bits from his American Carnage speech, and amped up the crazy. If you have ever wondered what it would be like to be represented by a wild-eyed megalomaniac—minus the flowing robes and abundant military medals—take a look.

posted by zarq at 9:24 AM on September 19 [51 favorites]


One thing I'll never understand about Republican voters is why they're so keen on getting sent to their deaths over some bullshit by a rich guy who skipped out on serving in the military himself. They can't get enough of it.
posted by The Card Cheat at 9:26 AM on September 19 [24 favorites]


Trump wants an armaments parade for next July Fourth.

Dear President Macron,

Please have a universal healthcare and metric system parade on Bastille Day 2018.

- America ❤️
posted by peeedro at 9:28 AM on September 19 [56 favorites]


I'm just one data point but everyone I know who screams bomb them all to hell never has or will serve a day.
posted by cmfletcher at 9:28 AM on September 19 [9 favorites]


That Vox story reminds me of the time my boss told me in a performance review "When you make mistakes, I don't feel like I can trust you." There was no advice for how to improve or what type of mistakes were causing problems. Just the fact that I had occasionally made them was a problem.

Unless you've spoken perfectly your whole life and have never made an error in judgment, Fox News will find out and hound you and the rest of the media will join in. Or you can be a Republican. Those are your choices.

How to fight it? I actually read policy summaries about politicians and research one-liner "gaffes" to see what context surrounds them. When I hear a throwaway line about how "Senator X supported this awful thing once now we can't run them in 2020" I look into it or at least try to remember that I probably don't have the whole story. Then when people tell me why Senator X is the worst, I have more information than "I heard a bad thing".

As to the larger problem, that it happens in the first place, I've never watched cable news (except when Melissa Harris-Perry was on MSNBC). I certainly won't watch a group of heads yelling over each other. I have no idea why anyone DOES watch them or how to make people stop.
posted by Emmy Rae at 9:35 AM on September 19 [21 favorites]


What is fine?

I wouldn't read too much into it. It's just a good idea to say something like that if you think someone's about to assault you, both as an attempt to de-escalate the situation, and to help establish that the assault can't legally be justified as self-defense.
posted by Coventry at 9:40 AM on September 19


Rich Hall, of all people, said something pretty astute a couple days after the election: "Everything Trump says can be punctuated by the sound of a beer can opening."
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:41 AM on September 19 [57 favorites]


Trump wants an armaments parade for next July Fourth.

We already have Fleet Week in lots of cities and the Air and Water Show. Can't he just go to one of those and ooh and ahh? Something especially disturbing about him wanting to have his very own killing machine parade.
posted by dis_integration at 9:42 AM on September 19 [2 favorites]


So the pot, AKA 45, called the kettle, AKA The UN, "Bloated and ineffective." So I guess it holds true he mimics the last person he spoke to, and I guess that would have been his mirror.
posted by Oyéah at 9:47 AM on September 19 [1 favorite]


Some of our NY reps are getting arrested right now outside Trump Tower during a DACA protest - Reps. Grijalva and Guitierrez arrested along w/ NYC City Council leader Melissa MarkViverito; Rep Espaillat is there too.
posted by melissasaurus at 9:54 AM on September 19 [49 favorites]


We already have Fleet Week in lots of cities and the Air and Water Show. Can't he just go to one of those and ooh and ahh? Something especially disturbing about him wanting to have his very own killing machine parade.

Trump's already seen the Water Show
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:58 AM on September 19 [23 favorites]


Hey guys, are some of you feeling like your blood pressure is too low?

Hugh Hewitt, WaPo Opinion column: All in all, Trump has had a pretty good eight months.

(I started screaming at "flubbed response to Charlottesville" and haven't stopped yet.)
posted by RedOrGreen at 9:58 AM on September 19 [5 favorites]


Hugh Hewitt is a crank. Idk why MSNBC and WaPo give him time.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 10:04 AM on September 19 [5 favorites]


One thing I'll never understand about Republican voters is why they're so keen on getting sent to their deaths over some bullshit by a rich guy who skipped out on serving in the military himself.

It's not who he is, it's who he isn't that they like.
posted by Rykey at 10:06 AM on September 19 [14 favorites]


the President is just supposed to...

Whatever follows no longer applies.
posted by rocket88 at 10:18 AM on September 19 [9 favorites]


Trump wants an armaments parade for next July Fourth.

Will they parade past him like the soviet military did with the politburo?

[Note: That didn't work out so well for Anwar Sadat.]
posted by srboisvert at 10:31 AM on September 19 [1 favorite]


Hugh Hewitt, WaPo Opinion column: All in all, Trump has had a pretty good eight months.

Hugh Hewitt has literally no remaining integrity after his reversal on Trump. He's just another pair of thickrimmed glasses and serious mien out there to make absolute insane depravity and greed seem reasonable and serious and totally normal. Eichmann on the Radio.
posted by dis_integration at 10:37 AM on September 19 [3 favorites]


Right, and this isn't just a tone argument.

Isn't the whole idea of the "tone argument" move just to immunize yourself from people who point out that you're talking like an asshole? Or do NOT ALL people who use the phrase use it that way?
posted by thelonius at 10:40 AM on September 19


> I don't think we can put that back in the box, honestly. [...]

Maybe the solution isn't to try to put mainstream media back in the journalism box. Your comment alone provides the example that these organizations have chosen entertainment over information. Sure, entertainment gets more ratings, but human beings need a nutritional diet instead of just the informational equivalent of ice cream and pizza. HRC said as much recently—that the current media will refuse to take responsibility for the unhealthy informational diet they've created which resulted in this mess.

This is why I half-joke about the dire necessity for a highly visible American news media organization that unabashedly reports on objective reality. Because it is a complete joke to compare mainstream American news coverage with even the English-speaking international shows like Deutsche Welle, France 24, and NHK World. And it is a complete tragedy that an abundance of (investigative) journalism talent exists but people poised to take leadership positions won't put the necessary money or support behind this. Maybe they are too beholden to the idea of competing for ratings that they won't accept operating at an initial loss or a moral victory that could nevertheless shift the Overton window or reinstate professionalism as a factor in the competition. But the only winning move is not to play the game, and you'll never know unless you try.

Aside: I think it also speaks volumes that the most informative programs are "comedy" shows from the likes of John Oliver, Samantha Bee, and Trevor Noah (and increasingly, the late night shows), while the "serious" shows with more informative mission statements try to wedge the most crass, outrageous, YouTube fodder into their programming.

At the end of the day, these media organizations are run by people. Those complaining about Sean Spicer receiving an opportunity for redemption (or collective amnesia in response to what should be his tainted career) should keep in mind that the Emmys are hosted by CBS. The same CBS owned by Les "Trump is bad for America but good for CBS, so let's keep the money rolling in" Moonves. Of course he's going to put Spicer on another national stage. And this all trickles down like hooker piss to the like-minded producers and editors who choose which reports get aired. Whenever you get upset about why they gave "that person" a column or airtime, remember that there is someone calling the shots.

On a related note for all the people who just can't possibly understand how someone (e.g., congressmen trying to push the healthcare repeal through) could be so heartless, you need to disavow the notion that all human beings care about others deep down. Seriously. Stop it. Some people are just absolutely, irredeemably terrible at being human. The sooner you accept that these villains don't just exist in comic books—and that they are relatively plentiful across the various levels of our lives—the better able you are to defend yourself and others from their heartless actions.
posted by Johann Georg Faust at 10:40 AM on September 19 [24 favorites]


Christ, that UN speech. Where the fuck is Christopher Walken when you need him.
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 10:43 AM on September 19 [5 favorites]


One thing I'll never understand about Republican voters is why they're so keen on getting sent to their deaths over some bullshit by a rich guy who skipped out on serving in the military himself.

It's not who he is, it's who he isn't that they like.


This opportunism even predates the Obama racism. That obsession with military service that was so important in the Clinton years suddenly evaporated when Kerry was running against the Deferment-in-chief. IOKIYAR and it's not important if a Republican lacks this thing a Dem absolutely must have.
posted by phearlez at 10:47 AM on September 19 [22 favorites]


Right, and this isn't just a tone argument.

Isn't the whole idea of the "tone argument" move just to immunize yourself from people who point out that you're talking like an asshole? Or do NOT ALL people who use the phrase use it that way?


That's the misuse of the tone argument; the assertion that any discussion of how something is presented must be off-limits and/or an effort to stifle the speaker and a complete dismissal of the message.

The real tone argument is when folks - almost always white, most often male - give the words of a PoC a variation on if you expect us to take you seriously you need to stop hurting our fee-fees. It's a "I'm not gonna be your ally without a cookie" variant, with a big dollop of "how can you expect to be taken seriously and not viewed as a Hysterical Woman/Angry Black Man if you dare to actually show emotion about being raped/killed/"

There's plenty of legitimate use of 'tone argument.' But like anything else, shitbags will weaponize it to try to inoculate themselves and get the side benefit of reenabling other crappy tactics. Don't play into it.
posted by phearlez at 10:53 AM on September 19 [14 favorites]


Here is a series of Josh Marshall posts on the situation with Paul Manafort and the FISA warrant.

Making Sense of the Manafort FISA Report
A key detail to know is whether the warrant was issued perhaps later in June of 2016 or much later in the campaign after Manafort was dismissed in August. By my read the article is not clear on whether the warrant was issued while Manafort was still working on the campaign. The reporters say they weren’t able to learn the exact date.

When I saw this report what jumped out to me was this. Candidate Trump received his first intelligence briefing on August 17th, 2016. Joining him were Mike Flynn and Chris Christie. Two days later on August 19th, Manafort resigned from the campaign. This means that at the time of the first briefing, it’s possible that two members of the Trump campaign were being actively surveilled by the FBI over contacts with Russian government officials. That’s Manafort, the campaign chairman and Carter Page, a fairly peripheral foreign policy advisor.

Michael Flynn would later become a central figure in the investigation. But the probes into Flynn appear to have begun soon after the November election – both because of an op ed he wrote attacking a Turkish dissident resident in the US and contacts with the Russian Ambassador.
Understanding What Was Happening in Late Spring 2016
Consider a couple dates.

On March 21st, 2016 at an editorial board meeting with the Washington Post, Trump announced his first five foreign policy advisors: the one tasked with formulating policy on Europe and Russia was Carter Page.

One week later, on March 28th, Manafort was brought into the campaign with a brief to secure the delegates who would clinch the nomination. Over the next several weeks, Manafort became the dominant figure running the campaign, effectively the campaign manager. On June 21st, the practical reality was confirmed when Corey Lewandowski was fired as campaign manager and replaced by Manafort.

This is also the period when Michael Flynn’s role was being solidified in the campaign. [...]

This does not necessarily shed light on what if anything these men did wrong. The fact of investigations are not proof of wrongdoing. But it does give us more sense of how the probe began. In addition to whatever chatter the FBI and other intelligence agencies were picking up through standard surveillance, they were watching a seemingly very Russia friendly candidate stocking his campaign with people who were or recently had been under surveillance for possibly working as agents of the Russia government.
One More Point on the Manafort News
In any case, as I said, this was all known. But it wasn’t a pressing issue because Trump was just a one time real estate developer now in the licensing business who spent most of his time starring in a reality TV show. But once he became a serious presidential candidate, those money connections, all the shadowy figures and that dependence on money from abroad started mattering a lot more. When people suspected of acting as Russian agents (that’s what you need to get a FISA warrant) started showing up in the campaign – particularly – the guy running the campaign, those alarm bells must have been going off nonstop.

That is the context of what was happening – almost entirely outside our public view – in the late Spring and early Summer of 2016.

Josh notes that Manafort, Page, and Flynn have been targets of US intelligence surveillance, particularly for their connections to the Russian government. He did not, in these pieces, note that Trump's personal attorney, Michael Cohen is deeply connected to questionable businesses and players in Ukraine and apparently involved in the negotiations for Trump Moscow. Neither did he mention Felix Sater, a childhood friend of Cohen who was also involved Trump's attempts to do business in Russia.

Also worth noting is the Confederate Jefferson B. Sessions III, who had repeated undisclosed contacts with agents of the Russian government during the campaign. Senator Wyden wanted to know why it would have been problematic for Sessions to lead the investigation into Russian interference; I want to know as well because I think Wyden knows something very specific about Sessions' pre-election conduct. Sessions' former chief-of-staff, Rick Dearborn, also apparently sent an email suggesting that Vladimir Putin himself wanted to meet with members of the campaign.

All this stuff with Manafort is enraging, especially in the context of James Comey making a big deal about Clinton's emails right before election day. All the major players in the US intelligence community seemed to know that high ranking members of Trump's inner circle were connected to shady-ass post-Soviet governments and criminal syndicates, yet no one could figure out a way to make it known to the public how the magnitude of these investigations dwarfed any related to Hillary Clinton?? FUUUUUUUUUUCK!!!!!!!*

*Clip of Dwayne in Little Miss Sunshine screaming "fuck" at the top of his lungs.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 11:01 AM on September 19 [49 favorites]


I feel like I want to go back and watch Comey , Sessions and Yates again and start filling in some of the dodges, gaps, and request for closed session answering with the things that have come out since. Also, we still don't know what Sens Grassley and Fienstein got in their Comey briefing that made them seem so funerary.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 11:15 AM on September 19 [6 favorites]


Trump wants an armaments parade for next July Fourth.

For someone who hates Kim Jong Un he sure wants to be Kim Jong Un.
posted by ckape at 11:17 AM on September 19 [37 favorites]


I'm curious about how medical treatment for children will be viewed legally once medicaid is gone & private insurance is made unaffordable. Will criminal charges be brought against parents who refuse to sell their homes in order to buy asthma inhalers? Will the orphanages fill with babies that have expensive medical conditions? Will we send grown children to jail if they don't provide food and shelter for their parents with dementia?

We're in a capitalist country and apparently we give fuck all for elderly, handicapped, and poor. I'm just wondering if our laws will allow us to walk away from our medical responsibilities if we deem them too expensive.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 11:24 AM on September 19 [29 favorites]


For someone who hates Kim Jong Un he sure wants to be Kim Jong Un.

Far as he's concerned, Kim Jong Un's greatest crime is dictatoring without being white.
posted by Etrigan at 11:26 AM on September 19 [11 favorites]


This might be a good time to go into Home Remedies. Maybe start up a line of healing oils. Write a book on how to set a broken arm & stitch up wounds in your kitchen. For the truly cynical writers "Book of Prayers for various Health Issues."
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 11:29 AM on September 19 [6 favorites]


Emmy Rae, thank you for your script. (Simpler is better for me, as I don't like making phone calls and don't really want to get into an argument with a staffer. The Indivisible script is too much for me.) I added a bit about how I depend on the ACA for my medical care.

I just called my Senators (I'm in Indiana, so Donnelly and Young). I didn't need the whole script with the Donnelly staffer, because she very quickly told me that he was on my side when I paused to take a breath. (Hooray!) As expected, the response from the Young staffer wasn't very positive (she just said she'd pass on the message), but she was polite.
posted by minsies at 11:31 AM on September 19 [7 favorites]


We're in a capitalist country and apparently we give fuck all for elderly, handicapped, and poor. I'm just wondering if our laws will allow us to walk away from our medical responsibilities if we deem them too expensive.

If you can't afford medical care for your loved ones, clearly you're not rich enough to be one of the Elect. So they'll fine-tune the system to send you to jail or the morgue.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 11:31 AM on September 19 [4 favorites]


Prime Minister Netanyahu can barely conceal his warboner while watching Trump at the UN.

General Kelly, on the other hand, not quite as enthused.

So. Much. Winning.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:40 AM on September 19 [32 favorites]


Also, while I am feeling particularly mordant, I want to request a color chart from Roy Moore so I can pin my daughter down. She doesn't look yellow to me but she is half Japanese so maybe I'm just blind. It would be good to know if she is yellow or white or brown or peach because her skin color seems to be so important to the Republicans.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 11:46 AM on September 19 [17 favorites]


Will we send grown children to jail if they don't provide food and shelter for their parents with dementia?

Depends on the state.

Write a book on how to set a broken arm & stitch up wounds in your kitchen.

Where There Is No Doctor, Where There Is No Dentist, and Where Women Have No Doctor: A Health Guide for Women are handy to have around, just in case.
posted by melissasaurus at 11:48 AM on September 19 [37 favorites]


Anyone else find it odd that T went after his Saudi friends in complaining about the Human Right Council?
posted by stonepharisee at 12:25 PM on September 19 [1 favorite]


He's just negging them. "He read about it on Reddit!"
posted by wenestvedt at 12:28 PM on September 19 [3 favorites]


Can we impeach Trump if his saber-rattling endangers the American Strategic Bulgogi Reserves?
posted by delfin at 12:29 PM on September 19 [1 favorite]


Depends on the state.

Previously.
posted by Melismata at 12:29 PM on September 19






Alleged Serious Adult Person and Republican 3rd in line to the Presidency Orrin Hatch: "It's about time somebody talked turkey on that little bastard over there." -- Orrin Hatch on Trump's UN speech about NK/Rocket Man
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:44 PM on September 19 [1 favorite]


From Coventry's link:

No person shall abandon, or fail to provide adequate support to:

(1) The person's spouse, as required by law;

(2) The person's child who is under age eighteen, or mentally or physically handicapped child who is under age twenty-one;

(3) The person's aged or infirm parent or adoptive parent, who from lack of ability and means is unable to provide adequately for the parent's own support.


What?! Can you disown your parents and exempt yourself? I mean, I hope I'll support my parents if they are infirm, but I know plenty of people who deserve no such consideration.
posted by Emmy Rae at 12:47 PM on September 19 [6 favorites]




Can you disown your parents and exempt yourself?

I think usually none of these laws matter, as long as your parents are covered by Medicaid.
posted by Coventry at 12:55 PM on September 19


Where There Is No Doctor, Where There Is No Dentist, and Where Women Have No Doctor: A Health Guide for Women are handy to have around, just in case.

I made a post about these and other publications a while back. Unfortunately, many of the links were broken when Hesperian updated their site and documents.

Here's their current books and resource page. They've deliberately made it impossible to create a link to each publication's pdf file. You can read each individual chapter in pdf form online, but not the entire book. (Although anyone with Acrobat could conceivably open and save each chapter into one large file if they felt inclined.)

Look for "Read in Wiki" links after publication descriptions. Those links will open html pages to browse a publication's content. Unfortunately, they're not available for all publications.
posted by zarq at 12:56 PM on September 19 [13 favorites]


Can you disown your parents and exempt yourself?

No, the "best" part is that you can't even exempt yourself from parents that have effectively disowned you.
posted by corb at 12:58 PM on September 19 [2 favorites]


For anybody who's ever asked in an exasperating conversation with a Trumpie, "What, you think Trump's gonna look out for common people just out of the goodness of his heart?" or "You think he's gonna treat other countries fairly just out of the goodness of his heart?" ...Here you go, from today's UN speech:

"Out of the goodness of our hearts, we offer financial assistance to hosting countries in the region and we support recent agreements of the G20 nations that will seek to host refugees as close to their home countries as possible." [real]

Looks like y'all sized Trump up all wrong.
posted by Rykey at 12:59 PM on September 19 [1 favorite]


Okay but the folks in charge are the "party of personal responsibility," so it should be up to the elderly and their own bootstraps.
posted by witchen at 1:07 PM on September 19 [5 favorites]


According to the right wing, requiring doctors to provide medical care to all patients is literally slavery, so one would think filial responsibility laws would also qualify. After all, I didn't ask to be born...
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:12 PM on September 19 [8 favorites]


@realDonaldTrump: God bless the people of Mexico City. We are with you and will be there for you.

We'll be there right after they pay for the wall I guess.
posted by zachlipton at 1:12 PM on September 19 [5 favorites]


ResistBot must be super busy today. I faxed my senators and it was v e r y s l o w.
posted by yoga at 1:16 PM on September 19 [6 favorites]


CNBC/Reuters: Trump using campaign, RNC funds to pay Russia probe legal bills: Reuters, citing sources
President Donald Trump is using money donated to his reelection campaign and the Republican National Committee to pay for his lawyers in the probe of alleged Russian interference in the U.S. election, according to two people familiar with the matter.

The U.S. Federal Election Commission allows the use of private campaign funds to pay legal bills arising from being a candidate or elected official.

While previous presidential campaigns have used these funds to pay for routine legal matters such as ballot access disputes and compliance requirements, Trump would be the first U.S. president in the modern campaign finance era to use such funds to cover the costs of responding to a criminal probe, said election law experts.

One person familiar with the matter said the first payments, the amount of which Reuters could not determine, has already been made and would be disclosed in public filings. The person did not explain how the costs would be allocated between the campaign and the RNC.

The Republican National Committee is expected to make its August spending public on Wednesday, and the Trump campaign is due for another disclosure on Oct. 15.

John Dowd, Trump's lead lawyer, declined to say how the president's legal bills were being paid, adding: "That's none of your business."

A spokesperson for the RNC declined to comment, but said the committee has already paid unspecified, non-Russia related litigation expenses for the campaign. The RNC has an existing legal defense fund which has been used mainly for Election Day recounts and other routine legal matters for candidates, the spokesperson said.
posted by cjelli at 1:19 PM on September 19 [48 favorites]


> John Dowd, Trump's lead lawyer, declined to say how the president's legal bills were being paid, adding: "That's none of your business."

I guess Republican donors are getting value for money here.
posted by RedOrGreen at 1:23 PM on September 19 [8 favorites]


How many fucking lawyers does Orangewig have??
posted by petebest at 1:25 PM on September 19 [4 favorites]


@realDonaldTrump: God bless the people of Mexico City. We are with you and will be there for you.

We'll be there right after they pay for the wall I guess.


Tweet says it was from an iPhone, which means it's one of Trump's aides tweeting for him rather than Trump himself.
posted by mightygodking at 1:30 PM on September 19 [2 favorites]


Aaaand another earthquake in Mexico. Good lord.
posted by Melismata at 1:30 PM on September 19 [5 favorites]


It's not so much that he has a lot of lawyers, but then those lawyers need lawyers, and then the lawyers' lawyers need lawyers, and so on. It's a hybrid pyramid scheme/full employment plan.
posted by ckape at 1:31 PM on September 19 [3 favorites]


All of Trump's tweets come from an iPhone nowadays.
posted by zachlipton at 1:31 PM on September 19 [1 favorite]


Tweet says it was from an iPhone, which means it's one of Trump's aides tweeting for him rather than Trump himself.

I don't think this distinction has been true for a few months, at least.
posted by cjelli at 1:33 PM on September 19 [5 favorites]


They apparently took away his obsolete Android phone, much to the chagrin of all the foreign intelligence services that had jointly and severally hacked into it, I'm sure.

And to think that there were howls of protest from Republicans when Obama was considering using his Blackberry while in office. IOKIYAR is fun.
posted by RedOrGreen at 1:36 PM on September 19 [5 favorites]


John Dowd, Trump's lead lawyer, declined to say how the president's legal bills were being paid, adding: "That's none of your business."

Actually, it is our business, if they are using campaign committee funds. Campaign committees must disclose all donations and all spending. They don't have to specify exactly how much is directly going to Trump's lawyers, but they must disclose exactly which law firms are getting how much money. It shouldn't be too difficult to figure out since the law firms working for Trump are known.

Much more problematic are independent legal defense funds. The U.S. Office of Government Ethics, newly stocked with Trump advocates, has reversed a previous ruling and now allows anonymous donations to legal defense funds. Literally, Putin himself could be funneling millions into defense funds for various Trump minions and no one would be the wiser.
posted by JackFlash at 1:41 PM on September 19 [36 favorites]


Presumably because it destroys Medicare -- first as a federally-directed program, by converting it to block grants that states can spend on whatever they want (including something other than Medicare) and then entirely, by eliminating those grants altogether in 2026.

Business Insider: Republicans' last-chance Obamacare repeal has a giant money problem
The Center on Budget and Policy Priorities broke down just how much states would gain or lose in federal funding through 2026 under GCHJ. The biggest loser would be California, with $27.8 billion of funding shaved off over the timeframe. This biggest winner is Texas, which would receive an additional $8.2 billion. In total, federal funding would decrease by $80 billion through 2026.
Coincidentally, with the sole exception of Virginia, the few states that will receive a surplus of federal funds by 2026 are ones that voted for Donald Trump for president.
posted by Doktor Zed at 1:41 PM on September 19 [24 favorites]


They apparently took away his obsolete Android phone, much to the chagrin of all the foreign intelligence services that had jointly and severally hacked into it, I'm sure.

It's unclear, actually; he stopped tweeting from an android and started tweeting only from an iphone in March -- tone unchanged -- but then started tweeting from android again a few weeks later. It's unclear if that was the same phone, or a newer, more-secure phone.

Maybe there have been Trump-phone developments since March, but the underlying point there is that we can no longer tell by the device whether it's Trump personally tweeting or whether someone else is.
posted by cjelli at 1:42 PM on September 19 [1 favorite]


I've come to realize that Republicans are interested in only two things: repealing acts with ACA in their names and negotiating Russian adoptions.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 1:55 PM on September 19 [2 favorites]


>> They apparently took away his obsolete Android phone ...
> It's unclear, actually ... we can no longer tell by the device whether it's Trump personally tweeting or whether someone else is.

And to think, I found Cold War Kremlinology stupid and frustrating.
posted by RedOrGreen at 1:56 PM on September 19 [7 favorites]


Trump wants an armaments parade for next July Fourth.

For someone who hates Kim Jong Un he sure wants to be Kim Jong Un.

You know what? If this mother fucker is still in office on July 4 of next year, and I hope with every fiber of my being and with most of the fibers in yours that this will not be the case -- IF this mother fucker is still in office on July 4, AND he manages to get his pissy 4-year-old way and they give him a military parade, THEN I will fly my ass to DC and stand in the middle of the goddamn street Tianaman Square style just to fuck up his day. (And probably mine of course but it will be well worth it.)

And if he is NOT still in office and/or he does not get his pissy 4-year-old way, I will just draw a picture of me standing in front of a tank on a cake and eat it. That is my pledge to you Metafilter.
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 1:59 PM on September 19 [117 favorites]


In total, federal funding would decrease by $80 billion through 2026.

Didn't they just decide to give almost ten times this much to Defense this year alone?

hey hey look who's mug is on top of the news article! Hiya Johnny! How's the concern? Is it very?

It all goes back to fucking Reagan. Defense! Bullshit! I don't recall! Defense! Bullshit! I don't recall!
posted by petebest at 2:06 PM on September 19 [13 favorites]


I will just draw a picture of

me standing in front of a tank on a cake

and eat it


unclear what it is you're eating here

posted by salix at 2:12 PM on September 19 [17 favorites]


This is just to say
I have eaten
the picture
of me standing
in front of a tank
on a cake

Forgive me
it is unclear
what it is
I'm eating here
posted by Faint of Butt at 2:16 PM on September 19 [63 favorites]


John Dowd, Trump's lead lawyer, declined to say how the president's legal bills were being paid, adding: "That's none of your business."

If we ever have fair elections and get to have a Democratic majority again, one of the top things on our legislative agenda needs to be a law mandating total financial transparency from anyone involved in any way at all with the government. Every single elected or appointed official must forever surrender any claim to financial privacy. We need to know exactly how much money they have, exactly where it comes from, and exactly how it's spent.

Personally I'd be strongly in favor of expanding that to anyone who makes in excess of one million dollars in a single year from any source (stocks, inheritance, salary, whatever).

Money is power, and we need to keep tabs on how people with lots of it use it.
posted by sotonohito at 2:16 PM on September 19 [41 favorites]


And I mean **TOTAL** financial transparency. I want to know how they spend every cent they spend, receipts kept, scanned, and posted online for all to see. With serious penalties for withholding absolutely any information or lying.

Penalties in the range of confiscation of 50% of their net worth and banning them from being involved in the economy at a level more complex than having a simple checking account. We need them to understand that it's either letting us know how they're wielding the enormous financial power they possess, or being economically ruined.
posted by sotonohito at 2:19 PM on September 19 [15 favorites]


The story is paywalled unless you subscribe to E&E News or give them an email address, but it is sadly very [real]. Secretary Zinke is promoting allowing hunting in public lands by installing the arcade game "Big Buck Hunter Pro" in the agency's cafeteria. There's a picture and everything.
"To highlight #sportsmen contributions 2 conservation I installed Big Buck Hunter in the employee cafeteria. Get excited for #hunting season!" Zinke wrote today, referring to the arcade game "Big Buck Hunter Pro," in which players use plastic shotguns to hunt deer, elk and other big game.

The National Fish and Wildlife Foundation sponsored the arcade game, which employees will be encouraged to use on their lunch hours and other time off until Oct. 11. There's no cost to play the game.

The four players with the best scores will be entered into a tournament in October, with the winner facing off with Zinke in a head-to-head competition. Prizes will include "bragging rights" and a "beverage on the balcony" with the secretary, according to a statement from the department.
posted by zachlipton at 2:20 PM on September 19 [9 favorites]


@realDonaldTrump: God bless the people of Mexico City.

Out of curiosity, in all of the vast video library and Twitter history that has documented more of Trump's life than most people will ever experience, has there EVER been any utterance of the phrase "God bless" documented in his record before he decided to run for President? Any evidence of piety? Offering to pray for someone? Any personal charity? Just regular churchgoing, even?

I have known many evangelical Christians, and many of them have been quite sincere in their faith, but they do tend to exhibit a strain of hypocrisy that is hard to stomach at times. Not to bash Christians (many of my closest friends and family are Christians) but the brazen hypocrisy of accepting Trump as a Godly man given everything that has been documented about him in the past, and what is known about him now, may well be a defining moment in the decline of the evangelical movement.
posted by darkstar at 2:20 PM on September 19 [8 favorites]


me standing in front of a tank on a cake and eat it

Protip - the cake will taste better if you eat it before you stand on it in front of the tank. The cake will also taste better if you eat it before you put the tank on it and stand in front of the tank on the cake. Basically, just eat the cake and worry about the tank and relative positioning later, is what I'm meaning to say, because I'm confused about what's on the cake and what's being eaten at this point. But eat the cake.
posted by nubs at 2:27 PM on September 19 [16 favorites]


Secretary Zinke is promoting allowing hunting in public lands by installing the arcade game "Big Buck Hunter Pro" in the agency's cafeteria.

@infinitebarf

When we develop time travel, I'm so going back to recommend I skip all school past 10th grade because, why? I could always helm a government agency. Apparently.
posted by petebest at 2:28 PM on September 19 [8 favorites]


Doktor Zed: The Center on Budget and Policy Priorities broke down just how much states would gain or lose in federal funding through 2026 under GCHJ. The biggest loser would be California, with $27.8 billion of funding shaved off over the timeframe. This biggest winner is Texas, which would receive an additional $8.2 billion. In total, federal funding would decrease by $80 billion through 2026.

Huh, California loses while Texas wins? Let's see, why might that be?
In general, the legislation would over time move money away from states, predominantly Democratic, that have expanded Medicaid and aggressively pursued enrolling their lower income populations in Medicaid and exchange coverage. Money would move toward states, predominantly Republican, that have not expanded Medicaid. The update formula is apparently intended to distribute funding equally among the states based on their low-income population, but it ignores the facts that current Medicaid expansion covers people with incomes below 50 percent of poverty and premium tax credits in all states cover individuals with incomes up to 400 percent of poverty, while cost sharing reductions are available to persons with incomes up to 250 percent of poverty.

Moreover, the funding formula would constrain payments to the states across the board, by at least $31 billion by 2026 according to the CBO’s most recent projections.
Health Affairs blog post, linked in NPR's article Latest GOP Effort To Replace Obamacare Could End Health Care For Millions (September 19, 2017)
posted by filthy light thief at 2:39 PM on September 19 [12 favorites]


Zinke @infinitebarf

In other infinitebarf-from-Montanan-republicans news: after a horrific climate-change-induced forest fire season, journalist-beating violent thug Greg Gianforte says that the solution is to cut down the rest of the trees.

“What we need to do is get back, when we manage our forests, that is, thinning them, we end up with better habitat, we end up with more wildlife, more sporting opportunities, healthier forests, and we have jobs in our mills and fires are less intense and they don’t spread as quickly,” he says. [...]

When asked about the effect climate change has on wildfires:

Greg Gianforte: You know the climate is certainly changing. And as an engineer I know any input has some effect on the output. Man is on earth so it’s certainly having some effect.

Nate Hegyi: We’re talking about carbon emissions.

GG: Well, there were an awful lot of carbon emissions from these fires this year. The best way to sequester carbon is to have healthy forests that don’t burn.


See, hippies? If only you'd let us log all the forests until they were "healthy," we wouldn't have all this CO2 that you bitch about so much! Cheap, gross gaslighting.
posted by Rust Moranis at 2:40 PM on September 19 [8 favorites]


Manafort's spokesman says the government should release any intercepted communications so people can hear them for themselves. Which isn't that interesting on its own, but it's also a heck of a sign that Mueller hasn't flipped Manafort. I mean, that's not something you say when you're cooperating with the government, right?
posted by zachlipton at 2:47 PM on September 19 [4 favorites]


Manafort's spokesman says the government should release any intercepted communications so people can hear them for themselves. Which isn't that interesting on its own, but it's also a heck of a sign that Mueller hasn't flipped Manafort. I mean, that's not something you say when you're cooperating with the government, right?

@renato_mariotti
Rod Blagojevich said the same thing and he's now sitting in federal prison.
posted by chris24 at 2:54 PM on September 19 [43 favorites]


Any evidence of piety? Offering to pray for someone? Any personal charity? Just regular churchgoing, even?

Donny Two-Scoops doesn't even know what religion he is...

""I did very, very well with evangelicals in the polls," Trump interjected in the middle of the conversation -- previously unreported comments that were described to me by both [Presbyterian] pastors.

They gently reminded Trump that neither of them was an evangelical.

"Well, what are you then?" Trump asked.

They explained they were mainline Protestants, the same Christian tradition in which Trump, a self-described Presbyterian, was raised and claims membership. Like many mainline pastors, they told the President-elect, they lead diverse congregations.

Trump nodded along, then posed another question to the two men: "But you're all Christians?""

http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2017/politics/state/donald-trump-religion/
posted by elsietheeel at 3:01 PM on September 19 [9 favorites]


[Manafort] They can't have grabbed everything. I'll bet they're just trying to scare me. They're bluffing!
[Mueller] Vulcans. Never. Bluff.

[fake]
posted by hanov3r at 3:01 PM on September 19 [4 favorites]


VIRGINIA HOUSE ELECTIONS - HD 56-60

intro
1-5
6-10
11-15
16-20
21-25
26-30
31-35
36-40
41-45
46-50
51-55

===

56th District
Currently GOP seat
R cand: John McGuire
D cand: Melissa Dart

Mostly rural central district, 79.3% white. No D candidate in 2013 or 2015. Trump won district 56-38.

===

57th District
Currently Dem seat
R cand: none
D cand: David Toscano (incumbent)

Charlottesville, 69.2% white. Incumbent first elected in 2005. No R candidate in 2013 or 2015. Clinton won district 75-19.

===

58th District
Currently GOP seat
R cand: Rob Bell (incumbent)
D cand: Kellen Squire

Mostly rural central district, 88.2% white. Incumbent first elected in 2001. No R candidate in 2013 or 2015. Trump won district 54-40.

===

59th District
Currently GOP seat
R cand: Matt Fariss (incumbent)
D cand: Tracy Carver

Mostly rural central district, 77.1% white. Incumbent first elected in 2011. No D candidate in 2013 or 2015. Trump won district 62-35. There is an independent AND a Green candidate.

===

60th District
Currently GOP seat
R cand: James Edmunds (incumbent)
D cand: Jamaal Johnston

Mostly rural central district, 63.5% white. Incumbent first elected in 2009. R won 64-36 in 2013, no D candidate in 2015. Trump won district 55-42.

===

Next time: 61-65
posted by Chrysostom at 3:03 PM on September 19 [20 favorites]


Manafort's spokesman says the government should release any intercepted communications so people can hear them for themselves.

Don't you worry Manafort. EVERYTHING Mueller has will be admitted into evidence during your trial. We'll all hear it at that time.
posted by mikelieman at 3:07 PM on September 19 [2 favorites]


Hermeowne Grangepurr: "The VA gov race is tightening, but hopefully that means that NoVa dems will be fired up and not complacent, right, RIGHT?!? "

New Quinnipiac poll has Northam up 51-41. I think the polling average is around +5 Northam at this point.
posted by Chrysostom at 3:08 PM on September 19 [5 favorites]




....but the brazen hypocrisy of accepting Trump as a Godly man given everything that has been documented about him in the past, and what is known about him now, may well be a defining moment in the decline of the evangelical movement.

Thanks for the laugh. That was a good one.

Evangelical Christians have been accepting and forgiving and sending their children's college funds as donations to brazen hypocritical assholes for at least half a century or more. Trump is nothing new.

The movement isn't dying. The majority of the people in it don't give a damn about their own hypocrisy and apparently only give a shit about attacking minorities, the vulnerable and the less fortunate.
posted by zarq at 3:19 PM on September 19 [16 favorites]


Oh yeah, and some of those Evangelicals also want to hasten the apocalypse.

Which brings us back full circle to their support for Trump.
posted by zarq at 3:21 PM on September 19 [8 favorites]


FUUUUUUUUUUCK!!!!!!!*

. . . IS HOW I FEEL INSIDE RICK. ALL THE TIME.
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:26 PM on September 19 [32 favorites]


Don’t forget I’m just a guy, standing in front of a tank, asking it to love him.
And also not run him over.
posted by kirkaracha at 3:39 PM on September 19 [6 favorites]


From the Vox transcript of the UN speech:

We are celebrating the 230th anniversary of our beloved Constitution, the oldest constitution still in use in the world today. This timeless document has been the foundation of peace, prosperity, and freedom for the Americans and for countless millions around the globe whose own countries have found inspiration in its respect for human nature, human dignity, and the rule of law. The greatest in the United States Constitution is its first three beautiful words. They are "We the people." Generations of Americans have sacrificed to maintain the promise of those words, the promise of our country and of our great history.

Jesus Christ, even when he's reading from a teleprompter he makes no fucking sense at all.
posted by nickmark at 3:40 PM on September 19 [15 favorites]


constitution still in use[Citation Needed]
posted by mrgoat at 3:43 PM on September 19 [38 favorites]


our beloved Constitution, the oldest constitution still in use in the world today

Dude, there's a representative from the Most Serene Republic of San Marino sitting right there in your audience.
posted by jackbishop at 3:47 PM on September 19 [37 favorites]


countless millions around the globe whose own countries have found inspiration in its respect for human nature, human dignity, and the rule of law

Hồ Chí Minh found inspiration in the Declaration of Independence in September 1945 but we backed France's colonialist restoration and condemned Vietnam to 30 years of war before they gained their independence.
posted by kirkaracha at 3:47 PM on September 19 [23 favorites]


I just want this shit with the repeal to be over. It's draining me constantly. I guess that's part of their plan. But it's kinda working.
posted by Justinian at 3:50 PM on September 19 [34 favorites]


Erdogan is claiming that Trump called him to apologize for the incident where Erdogan's guards brutally beat protesters on US soil. And the sad part is, much as I have no reason to trust Erdogan, it's believable.

Oh, and Gorka's new post-White House gig is hanging out with Pizzagaters
Reached for comment on Tuesday, Tricia Cunningham, a media coordinator for the MAGA Coalition, greeted a Daily Beast reporter by saying she was doing “Trumptastic, as always!” She then attempted to steer an interview back to the group’s mission of supporting President Trump and like-minded elected officials at the state and federal levels.

Still, Cunningham defended conspiracy theories floated by Gingrich, Lockhart, and Vandersteel.

“As far as Pizzagate, I’ve traveled from Pennsylvania to Washington D.C., and human trafficking is a huge deal,” she said. “So there’s a lot of questions that need to be raised.”
posted by zachlipton at 4:08 PM on September 19 [6 favorites]


You may remember Jimmy Kimmel's heartbreaking monologue about the near-death of his infant son Billy a few months ago, and how he came away from it convinced that every family, no matter how poor, deserved decent healthcare.

Whelp:

@jimmykimmel:
Billy's helping me write tonight's monologue. I'll give our thoughts on the #GrahamCassidy health "care" bill. @BillCassidy @LindseyGrahamSC

I've been waiting for this. I hope he tears Cassidy to shreds. "Jimmy Kimmel test," my ass.
posted by Rhaomi at 4:16 PM on September 19 [37 favorites]


FUUUUUUUUUUCK!!!!!!!*

. . . IS HOW I FEEL INSIDE RICK.


Um....

...this is just to say....
posted by perspicio at 4:24 PM on September 19 [6 favorites]


You know, whether this passes or no, this is a minority of the country getting really fucking close to doing truly evil shit to the majority. I guess I'm still a little patriotic, because I think the people will eventually rise and be all Gandalf with this shit. But then again, Stephen Colbert had Sean Spicer on in a cameo during the Emmys, so idk really
posted by angrycat at 4:32 PM on September 19 [12 favorites]




My feeling on where the obamacare repeal is at is summed up in this HuffPo article. If Murkowski stays strong, it fails. If she flips, it passes.
posted by Justinian at 4:47 PM on September 19 [1 favorite]


Oh, and Gorka's new post-White House gig is hanging out with Pizzagaters

I mean, wasn't that also his in-White House gig?
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:50 PM on September 19 [10 favorites]


The greatest [sic] in the United States Constitution is its first three beautiful words. They are "We the people.""the general Welfare".

FTFY
posted by uosuaq at 4:55 PM on September 19 [10 favorites]


Oh, and Gorka's new post-White House gig is hanging out with Pizzagaters

I mean, wasn't that also his in-White House gig?

Depends how you define hanging out. I think he did most of his Fox appearances by video link.
posted by jaduncan at 4:56 PM on September 19


I just want this shit with the repeal to be over. It's draining me constantly.

Me, too. It's also draining my strategic Southern Comfort reserves.
posted by kirkaracha at 4:57 PM on September 19 [8 favorites]


Bernie tweeted this "I honestly cannot explain why any Senator would vote for Graham-Cassidy, such a cruel bill. But Republicans almost have the votes."

I'm not sure if they really expect to pass the bill and then use the spending cuts to go on a tax cutting spree, or if they are doing some kind of kayfabe where they expect some kind of blocking tactic by the Democrats at the end of the month that they can point to and use as a scapegoat for the next several years.
posted by puddledork at 5:11 PM on September 19 [1 favorite]


has been the foundation of peace, prosperity, and freedom for the Americans

THE Americans?? For the Americans?! President Wig? Your narcissistness? It's just Americans, mmmkay? Say it with me: " . . freedom for Americans;", no - leave out that "the" . . . It's just "for Americ-" Jesus, did a native Russian speaker write this ffff- . . . ooooooohhhhh. Right, the collusion. Yeah. Mmm.

Mm. That's fucked up, dude.
posted by petebest at 5:14 PM on September 19 [9 favorites]


It's not either of those things, Republicans are evil and want to kill thousands of Americans. They do not believe in the concept of health insurance, and want to take it away from everyone that cannot pay full price out of pocket. The tax cuts are a bonus, the main goals are to kill Americans, and overwrite the signature policy achievement of the first black President.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:15 PM on September 19 [9 favorites]


The talk of flipping Manafort or anyone else leaves me depressed. Sounds good, but I'm picturing the Godfather scenario - basically, all Trump has to do is say, hey Paulie Walnuts, take the rap, do your three-to-five in Club Med, and we'll take care of your family while you're upstate. And when you get out I'll give you a Trump Tower, or the proceeds from my memoir or Ivanka's slave-labor handbags, and we'll take care of your family.

But seriously, I've got to think the potential rewards of defending Trump outweigh any real penalty Mueller & Co. can throw at them. Hoping one of you can convince me otherwise.
posted by martin q blank at 5:16 PM on September 19 [1 favorite]


Scoop-o-clock from CNN: Exclusive: Mueller team's focus on Manafort spans 11 years
Special Counsel Robert Mueller's team is reaching back more than a decade in its investigation of Paul Manafort, a sign of the pressure Mueller is placing on President Donald Trump's former campaign chairman.

The FBI's warrant for a July search of Manafort's Alexandria, Virginia, home said the investigation centered on possible crimes committed as far back as January 2006, according to a source briefed on the investigation.

The broad time frame is the latest indication that Mueller's team is going well beyond Russian meddling during the campaign as part of its investigation of Trump campaign associates. Manafort, who has been the subject of an FBI investigation for three years, has emerged as a focal point for Mueller.
posted by zachlipton at 5:17 PM on September 19 [26 favorites]


if they are doing some kind of kayfabe where they expect some kind of blocking tactic by the Democrats at the end of the month that they can point to and use as a scapegoat for the next several years.

kayfabe it is. Almost having the votes means that all the other Republican senators are protected from Trump's thugs trying to primary them, because they TRIED, y'know, they ALMOST MADE IT, they VOTED WITH THE PRESIDENT.

I'm not sure that means collaborationist nonsense should be excused, but that's almost certainly what the attempt is.
posted by corb at 5:19 PM on September 19 [1 favorite]


In one March 2015 hacked text reported on, the sisters suggest their dad's payment from Yanukovych amounted to "blood money" after protesters were killed by police officers loyal to the politician.

"Don't fool yourself," Andrea Manafort, 31, wrote. "That money we have is blood money."

Andrea Manafort later texted someone else that her father's "work and payment in Ukraine is legally questionable."


Paul Manafort's daughters had concerns over dad's 'blood money', Adam Edelman, NY Daily News, Feb 28, 2017
posted by petebest at 5:24 PM on September 19 [17 favorites]


The FBI's warrant for a July search of Manafort's Alexandria, Virginia, home said the investigation centered on possible crimes committed as far back as January 2006, according to a source briefed on the investigation.

The. Best. People.
posted by jammer at 5:37 PM on September 19 [4 favorites]


Almost having the votes means that all the other Republican senators are protected from Trump's thugs trying to primary them, because they TRIED, y'know, they ALMOST MADE IT, they VOTED WITH THE PRESIDENT.

They already did that once, they would not be trying again if they didn't think something would be different. They could've moved on to tax cuts and passed the Murray-Alexander bipartisan bill, or at least engaged with that process after Sept 30th. But no, they killed that and threw themselves back fully into the Destroy The American Health System Act. They want it to pass, they think they can get it done this time, they're not playing 11th Dimensional Chess, they want to destroy the healthcare system. Why the fuck would we not take them at their word? In what way have they earned any goodwill whatsoever?
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:39 PM on September 19 [16 favorites]


Scoop o' clock continues! CBS: Surveillance of Paul Manafort occurred during 2016 campaign
CBS News has learned that the surveillance on Manafort occurred during the 2016 presidential campaign.

According to a former U.S. official, the intercepts picked up conversations between Manafort and Russian individuals about the campaign. The intercepts potentially include conversations between Manafort and President Trump.

The recordings are now part of special counsel Robert Mueller's investigation, which appears to be intensely focused on Manafort.

Lordy.
posted by un petit cadeau at 5:46 PM on September 19 [44 favorites]


This is getting to be like the end of Goodfellas. Do I hear "Layla"?
Can I get a Lay-men from the congregation?
posted by kirkaracha at 6:00 PM on September 19 [5 favorites]




"Sounds good, but I'm picturing the Godfather scenario - basically, all Trump has to do is say, hey Paulie Walnuts, take the rap, do your three-to-five in Club Med, and we'll take care of your family while you're upstate. And when you get out I'll give you a Trump Tower, or the proceeds from my memoir or Ivanka's slave-labor handbags, and we'll take care of your family. But seriously, I've got to think the potential rewards of defending Trump outweigh any real penalty Mueller & Co. can throw at them. Hoping one of you can convince me otherwise."

Trump has never followed through on a contract in his life. Anyone who believes that he'd take care of their family and pay them off is a moron. He'd rather sue a small carpenter into bankruptcy than pay a minor bill on a casino construction project. He's not going to take care of Paulie Walnuts. First chance he gets, he participates in throwing him under the bus.

Mafia and gang situations where someone takes the rap depends on strong bonds of loyalty that are built up over time and a feature a leader with a reputation for keeping his word -- when it comes to both punishments and rewards. Everyone knows Trump can't keep his word for 30 seconds in a row, and that loyalty only runs one way with him. Lot of these guys are gonna roll as soon as Mueller has a big enough threat or a big enough deal to offer them. Some of them won't because, like Rod Blagojevich, they're fucking morons convinced of their own eternal virtue -- definitely more than average in this administration. But the ones who understand the situation are going to start to roll.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 6:12 PM on September 19 [50 favorites]


This "pizza" [photo] served at Trump Tower is disgraceful.
posted by zachlipton at 6:18 PM on September 19 [28 favorites]


I've had better pizza at Midwestern bowling alleys.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 6:22 PM on September 19 [8 favorites]


Meanwhile on FOX News.

Must be a theme week - the spokesperson for the Satanic Temple will be on Tucker this Thursday.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 6:22 PM on September 19


Can the NY reps move to impeach for Pizza Crime?
posted by jason_steakums at 6:35 PM on September 19 [10 favorites]


This "pizza" [photo] served at Trump Tower is disgraceful.


Choice bons mots from the comments:


What did cheese ever do to you to deserve that?

Am I supposed to eat that or did I already?

That just soiled my appetite

That's grounds for impeachment.

That Trump pizza looks like it is going to go down as easily as his 'presidency'.

that's designed to sell more Taco Bowls

Looks the way I'd imagine Trump would look if Dorothy threw a bucket of water on him.

I don't think the person who made that actually eats food

The cheese offers more coverage than TrumpCare!

posted by darkstar at 6:38 PM on September 19 [18 favorites]


This "pizza" [photo] served at Trump Tower is disgraceful.

Egad. Remember those carefree innocent days when we thought rock bottom was the Trump martini?
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:39 PM on September 19 [14 favorites]


Republicans are losing and have nothing else to run on. They are hopelessly divided and out of step with the American people. The Crazy Freedom Caucus can block anything from happening in the House, and Ted Cruz and friends can gum up the Senate. But thanks to gerrymandering, any attempt at "bipartisan" is instantly labeled as treason so nothing gets done.

Well, not nothing. We have entire sessions of Congress devoted to Kayfabe and fundraising. They keep bringing healthcare up because there is literally nothing else to do. One bill gets defeated and they bring it up again. It's like the laser pointer my dumb cat chases around the room. Everyone, Democrat and Republican, gets to donate and say "My Senator is just the best!" (valid in primary elections only, which is what incumbents truly fear).

If Graham-Cassidy actually passed, I'm convinced it would be a huge disaster for Republicans. What do they run on in 2018?
Immigration reform and amnesty? Breitbart would start an insurrection.
Rounding up millions of families and necessary workers? Non starter.
Tax Cuts for millionaires? Good luck Granny Starver Paul Ryan
Tax Reform? So boring I forgot to vote.
National security or foreign affairs? Let's talk about Russia!
LGBT? Feminism? Race? Short term meh. Long term loss.
Moral issues? Let's talk about Donald Trump
The economy? Talk to Bernie Sanders.

2020 might be different because Trump is so crazy. But Republicans in Congress have nothing other than repealing Obamacare. As soon as they pass a law they'll have to find something else, and for lots of swing districts and Senators there is nothing else.
posted by Glibpaxman at 6:40 PM on September 19 [1 favorite]


Can I get a Lay-men from the congregation?

Testify!
posted by petebest at 7:00 PM on September 19 [1 favorite]


They're not losing.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:01 PM on September 19 [8 favorites]


This "pizza" [photo] served at Trump Tower is disgraceful.

OH MY GOD. This tower needs to be removed from New York.
posted by lalex at 7:04 PM on September 19 [7 favorites]


I literally gasped.
posted by lalex at 7:06 PM on September 19 [4 favorites]


If that's what Republicans think pizza looks like then it's no wonder they assumed a restaurant specializing in pizza must be a front.
posted by ckape at 7:07 PM on September 19 [34 favorites]


That is quite literally the pizza I make when I want the taste of melted cheese in under five minutes.

Step one, discard your shame. It has no place here.

Step two: smear tomato sauce on some kind of flatbread and apply cheese.

Step three: Cook for eight minutes in a convection oven. Notice it's done in five. Cram the molten lava hot disk of cheesy shame into your mouth.
posted by Slackermagee at 7:08 PM on September 19 [39 favorites]


Slackermagee, a pizzadilla allows you to hide shame in the folded-over tortilla.
posted by jason_steakums at 7:13 PM on September 19 [9 favorites]


my brother texts: "Why not just use a Digiorno and upgrade?" and it's a very fair point.
posted by lalex at 7:15 PM on September 19 [11 favorites]


According to a former U.S. official, the intercepts picked up conversations between Manafort and Russian individuals about the campaign. The intercepts potentially include conversations between Manafort and President Trump.

Breitbart is spinning this as proof of Trump's wiretapping claims.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:15 PM on September 19 [2 favorites]


Breitbart is spinning this as proof of Trump's wiretapping claims.

I was waiting for that. Fuckers.
posted by palmcorder_yajna at 7:17 PM on September 19 [6 favorites]


Trump using campaign, RNC funds to pay Russia probe legal bills

Are we sure he's not secretly working to destroy the Republicans? This has got to hurt future fund raising.
posted by Coventry at 7:23 PM on September 19 [1 favorite]


Are we sure he's not secretly working to destroy the Republicans? This has got to hurt future fund raising.

You'd think that but the king is infallible in the eyes of his base.
posted by Talez at 7:25 PM on September 19 [4 favorites]


Jimmy Kimmel's monologue on Sen. Bill Cassidy is really something else. "Not only did Bill Cassidy fail the Jimmy Kimmel test, he failed the Bill Cassidy test."

Jimmey Kimmel is the good one. He's no Jimmy Fallon.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:26 PM on September 19 [84 favorites]


They're Republicans. How would they find out?
posted by perspicio at 7:26 PM on September 19 [3 favorites]


That is quite literally the pizza I make when I want the taste of melted cheese in under five minutes.

Why are you bothering with the tomato sauce? Did a skunk spray it?
posted by Sys Rq at 7:29 PM on September 19 [13 favorites]


new from the Washington Examiner: Five major networks refuse to hire Sean Spicer as a contributor
The five major news networks will not be bringing Sean Spicer on as a paid contributor.

Fox News, CNN, CBS News, ABC News, and NBC News have passed on the former press secretary for a full-time gig, according to a report Tuesday.

"The news organizations might use him on round tables, but [a paid exclusive contributor job] is not happening," an anonymous executive told NBC News. The report also said the networks were not interested because Spicer lacks credibility.
posted by lalex at 7:34 PM on September 19 [59 favorites]


a pizzadilla allows you to hide shame in the folded-over tortilla.

*gasps, counts ingredients available, sprints to kitchen*
posted by petebest at 7:39 PM on September 19 [26 favorites]


"The news organizations might use him on round tables, but [a paid exclusive contributor job] is not happening," an anonymous executive told NBC News. The report also said the networks were not interested because Spicer lacks credibility.

As if that's ever been requirement for anyone on any of those networks.
posted by Joey Michaels at 7:40 PM on September 19 [9 favorites]


The Trump Tower pizza looks like every "St. Louis style" pizza I was subjected to while living in St. Louis. Cardboard base, ketchup, topped with petroleum based imitation "cheese" product.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:42 PM on September 19 [5 favorites]


Stephen Miller Meets His Immigrant Ancestors, by Eli Valley
posted by growabrain at 7:45 PM on September 19


@realDonaldTrump: I was saddened to see how bad the ratings were on the Emmys last night - the worst ever. Smartest people of them all are the "DEPLORABLES."

He also thanked some random person who tweeted "We love you, Mr. President!" at him (standby for the inevitable milkshake ducking), told the people of Puerto Rico "Be careful, our hearts are with you- will be there to help!" and thinks lots of foreign leaders agreed with "much (or all)" of his UN speech. So basically, he's having fun in New York back to his old Twitter self.

And the Emmys weren't last night.
posted by zachlipton at 7:47 PM on September 19 [9 favorites]


new from Politico: [Tom] Price’s private-jet travel breaks precedent - HHS secretary took chartered aircraft on five flights last week, while his predecessors would fly commercial.
In a sharp departure from his predecessors, Health and Human Services Secretary Tom Price last week took private jets on five separate flights for official business, at a cost of tens of thousands of dollars more than commercial travel. [...]

The travel by corporate-style jet comes at a time when other members of the Trump administration are under fire for travel expenditures, and breaks with the practices of Obama-era Secretaries Sylvia Matthews Burwell and Kathleen Sebelius, who flew commercially while in the continental United States.

Price, a frequent critic of federal spending who has been developing a plan for department-wide cost savings, declined to comment.
posted by lalex at 7:50 PM on September 19 [53 favorites]


@realDonaldTrump: I was saddened to see how bad the ratings were on the Emmys last night - the worst ever. Smartest people of them all are the "DEPLORABLES."

Variety: "Sunday’s awards ceremony averaged 11.4 million viewers, compared to 2016’s 11.3 million. "

Mister President, 11.4M is a bigger number than 11.3M. Is innumeracy the reason you can't run a business any which way but into the ground?
posted by Sys Rq at 7:56 PM on September 19 [46 favorites]


This "pizza" [photo] served at Trump Tower is disgraceful.

Even the trivial matters bearing this dude's name are complete atrocities. His only consistency is that everything he and/or his name touches is bad.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 8:04 PM on September 19 [9 favorites]


inevitable milkshake ducking

If you tweet "We love you Mr President" at Trump, you've already milkshake ducked yourself.
posted by dis_integration at 8:04 PM on September 19 [33 favorites]


I at least assumed we were talking about cross-country flights or ones to out of the way areas or something, but no, included in that private jet article is a $20,000 round trip between DC and Philadelphia, a distance of 125 miles, with regularly scheduled commercial flights (as in, one at the same time he left), trains, and, you know, roads. Like, some people have commutes longer than that. And he chartered a jet.

If you haven't seen the Kimmel clip, you should
posted by zachlipton at 8:10 PM on September 19 [27 favorites]


The Trump Tower pizza looks like every "St. Louis style" pizza I was subjected to while living in St. Louis. Cardboard base, ketchup, topped with petroleum based imitation "cheese" product.
posted by T.D. Strange at 21:42 on September 19 [+] [!]


COME AT ME, BRO
posted by fluttering hellfire at 8:11 PM on September 19 [10 favorites]


> Morgan Freeman warns Russia is waging war on the U.S. We need to pay attention before it’s too late.

Produced by The Committee to Investigate Russia.


More from The Daily Beast: Rob Reiner and Morgan Freeman Declare ‘War’ on Russia: With the newly formed Committee to Investigate Russia, filmmaker Rob Reiner tells The Daily Beast he plans to do what President Trump won’t.
posted by homunculus at 8:14 PM on September 19 [3 favorites]


The Trump Tower pizza looks like every "St. Louis style" pizza I was subjected to while living in St. Louis. Cardboard base, ketchup, topped with petroleum based imitation "cheese" product.
posted by T.D. Strange at 21:42 on September 19 [+] [!]

COME AT ME, BRO


Provel is a processed cheese product, like Velveeta or "American cheese", not imitation cheese, and it's delicious, and St Louis is amazing, and voted 55% for Clinton, and I wish I was on The Hill right now eating some cracker-thin crust, provel topped pizza.
posted by dis_integration at 8:22 PM on September 19 [6 favorites]


So I emailed my Senators (Utah) today. I might try to call tomorrow but it was late in the day when I emailed. Feel free to use this as a sort of template if you'd like. I wanted to email as well as try to call as I feel my words are best suited in detail as well as a "vote no" checkmark.

This whole thing is frustrating because as a disabled person I can't march in the streets or even have the emotional energy to be an activist as I would want. I barely am surviving the day. Our able bodied allies need to fight too!
Hello Senator, 



My name is [name] and I’m a young, disabled and chronically ill woman living in [city], UT.



I am begging that yourself and your other senators OPPOSE and vote NO on the Graham-Cassidy healthcare proposal.



It was not my choice to become ill and I shouldn’t have to risk bankruptcy or not be able to advance financially because of the cards that were dealt to me. Giving everyone actual affordable access and incentives for health care creates a better workforce and happier people. 



Not to mention that this bill would force people including the elderly and children off of health insurance which will surely lead to suffering and death. 



Health care costs are out of control. However the current system needs to be improved, not taken away. We can’t allow insurers to deny people like myself with preexisting conditions or increase our rates at random. 



My last surgery for stage 2 endometriosis was $40,000 prior to insurance. That’s more than the yearly salary of many people. After insurance we still paid over $6,000 out of pocket, just for my recent procedure in addition to health insurance premiums. Many people don’t have savings of more than $1,000.



I never expected to become ill in my 20s. No one expects that. Nor does anyone expect a fall or a car accident or appendicitis. People shouldn’t live in fear for their health only because it could also bankrupt them and their family. I shouldn’t also have to worry about if I can pay for something that would help me in addition to all the other struggles I have just coping with severe illness and pain. 



Please oppose and vote no for the Graham-Cassidy bill if it comes to vote. 



Sincerely, 
[Name] from [City]
posted by Crystalinne at 8:27 PM on September 19 [49 favorites]


included in that private jet article is a $20,000 round trip between DC and Philadelphia, a distance of 125 miles, with regularly scheduled commercial flights (as in, one at the same time he left), trains, and, you know, roads.

riiiiiiight and for those unfamiliar with how the NE Corridor works, between Amtrak and commercial flights there is basically a departure time like every half hour.
posted by lalex at 8:31 PM on September 19 [11 favorites]


COME AT ME, BRO

Come on, guys, no pizza enemies on the left.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:32 PM on September 19 [6 favorites]


Late nite words of comfort from Dr. Chuck Tingle:

yes i have looked far ahead on this timeline. it is not wise to give away the ending but do not fear (no timeline spoilers here sorry bud)
posted by Capt. Renault at 8:34 PM on September 19 [13 favorites]


You'll never guess who posted a clip to his own YouTube channel ranting about how horrible it is that the government uses all these private jets. Yep, it's Tom Price.

(Via Steven Dennis at Bloomberg)
posted by zachlipton at 8:42 PM on September 19 [18 favorites]


Light day in the ELECTIONS NEWS department, but one good item -- Manchester, NH does a top two primary for mayor. The incumbent Republican had first been elected in 2009, and had never lost a mayoral primary. The Dem challenger beat him tonight 53-46, including by 16 points in his own ward.

There's a general Nov 7th - there were two other minor candidates - but you'd certainly expect this to be a D pickup of NH's largest city.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:47 PM on September 19 [38 favorites]


literally every single person in this government is a terrible human being
posted by lalex at 8:47 PM on September 19 [16 favorites]


I want to inform everyone that I was so upset by the pizza atrocity linked in this thread that I ordered some delicious NYC pizza and just consumed a couple slices. [real]
posted by lalex at 8:53 PM on September 19 [13 favorites]


I went the other way and put a slice of American cheese on a Totinos "party pizza." I am deeply ashamed. Also [real]
posted by thebrokedown at 8:58 PM on September 19 [21 favorites]


He went before the UN today, beating the drum of war, and this evening we have 50 posts about his place's bad pizza. This presidency confuses me.
posted by Archelaus at 9:00 PM on September 19 [11 favorites]


I went the other way and put a slice of American cheese on a Totinos "party pizza." I am deeply ashamed. Also [real]

You still beat out Imo's. YEA I WENT THERE.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:01 PM on September 19 [6 favorites]


literally every single person in this government is a terrible human being

I'm not
posted by ctmf at 9:02 PM on September 19 [49 favorites]


I'm not

You know, you're right. Thank you for reminding me. I mean that.
posted by lalex at 9:04 PM on September 19 [34 favorites]


He went before the UN today, beating the drum of war, and this evening we have 50 posts about his place's bad pizza. This presidency confuses me.

Because this is the equivalent of an idle fucking Tuesday in this administration now.
posted by Talez at 9:06 PM on September 19 [7 favorites]


if that pizza were a horse they'd have to shoot it
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 9:16 PM on September 19 [9 favorites]


They should shoot it anyway. Just to be sure.
posted by Justinian at 9:19 PM on September 19 [29 favorites]


Random guy on Facebook opined this regarding Trump's UN speech:
the president is right on all of this..
We should have neutralized this threat a long time ago.
In what sane world do we let one mad man threaten an entire planet?

Completely. Without. Irony.
posted by xigxag at 9:20 PM on September 19 [70 favorites]


I'm not

You know, you're right. Thank you for reminding me. I mean that.


Career civil servants are victims too. It's easy to confuse decisions made by the high profile political appointees, but there's 7 layers of people below those soulless fucks who never asked for this and just wanted to do their jobs. And mostly resent what's coming down from the top, but aren't able to do much about it. Apart from heroic exceptions like today's leak of the draft refugee report. Or the leak of the energy grid report Rick Perry tried to bury. Civil servants are overwhelmingly professionals who desperately wish the elected representatives would just allow them to fulfill the statutory missions they thought they were signing up for. But that's not currently the world we live in when the very idea of civil service and the government's ability to solve problems on any level is under direct assault from the Republican President and Republican majority.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:35 PM on September 19 [40 favorites]


Trump is a well-known defiler of New York City pizza; see also Jon Stewart's gloriously righteous meltdown on him and Palin for eating Famous Famiglia pizza... with a KNIFE and FORK.
posted by Rhaomi at 9:36 PM on September 19 [12 favorites]


And the Emmys weren't last night.

You say that as if time still holds any meaning.
posted by ckape at 10:15 PM on September 19 [34 favorites]



literally every single person in this government is a terrible human being


Nor me.

Career civil servants are victims too.

It really sucks; as you say, we just want to do our jobs, and do right by the American people. It's humiliating to be represented by such partisan bullshitters, who can't even try to pretend they're working in the public interest.
posted by suelac at 10:15 PM on September 19 [28 favorites]


Mister President, 11.4M is a bigger number than 11.3M. Is innumeracy the reason you can't run a business any which way but into the ground?

Facts don't matter to him. What matters is what he wants to be true. He wants things to be true because he wanted them to be true. And then if he needs them to be false later on they should & there's no contradiction because both times things were the way he needed them to be at the time.
posted by scalefree at 10:17 PM on September 19 [3 favorites]


I went the other way and put a slice of American cheese on a Totinos "party pizza." I am deeply ashamed. Also [real]

There is no dishonor in doctoring a Totinos party pizza. You do what you have to do.
posted by homunculus at 10:25 PM on September 19 [9 favorites]




Facts don't matter to him. What matters is what he wants to be true. He wants things to be true because he wanted them to be true. And then if he needs them to be false later on they should & there's no contradiction because both times things were the way he needed them to be at the time.

If only he were just a ridiculous Lewis Carroll character.
posted by droplet at 11:18 PM on September 19 [8 favorites]


if that pizza were a horse they'd have to shoot it

Why? It's already glue.
posted by loquacious at 11:46 PM on September 19 [18 favorites]


In the neverending stream of offal pouring forth from him, an especially fetid morsel in his tweet stood out to me: I was saddened to see how bad the ratings were on the Emmys last night - the worst ever. Smartest people of them all are the "DEPLORABLES."(emphasis mine).

Does he think the Emmy awards go to smart people, that it is a recognition of intelligence? Is he just projecting all his fears of inadequacy randomly again ("They think they're so smart, with all their book-learning and logic and knowledge about the real world and looks and talent and wealth")? Is he consoling his base that it is okay that they are not the "smart ones"?

On a side note, I would give everything I have to know how much of his world-view is self-delusion and how much is his handlers lying to him to keep his mood up (as mentioned above, the viewer numbers for the show went up, not down in comparison with the previous year).
posted by PontifexPrimus at 1:15 AM on September 20 [1 favorite]


That UN speech... KJU is like the bully that brought a flick knife to school, and Trump is the supposed adult yelling 'LET'S GET READY TO RUUUUUMBBLLLLLEEEEEE!!!!

Does he realise the UN isn't wrestlemania?'
posted by adept256 at 1:26 AM on September 20 [2 favorites]


hot disk of cheesy shame

If I ever start a band, I'm stealing this for our first album title.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 1:35 AM on September 20 [11 favorites]


@GothamGirlBlue
I have come to the inescapable conclusion that peace makes people stupid. Soon you start to believe that bad things *can't* happen. I think about Trump's appeal to the black community during the campaign: "What do you have to lose?" Because we know what loss is. We know what it means not to be able to find work despite our education; we know what it is to see our children suffer. So much of our political establishment has simply not suffered enough. They live lives of peace, and imagine it will last forever. "What's the worst that could happen?" is like a line in a movie, where challenges are always overcome by the heroes. To them, the idea that nukes could be used again is preposterous. It just *wouldn't* happen. It's not a real risk to them. It's why so many reporters are waiting for a pivot that will never come. Trump must be shaped into what the President is, right? The GOP wouldn't *really* gut Medicare and Medicaid. They wouldn't *really* harm millions of Americans. Too much peace screws with your brain. You start thinking progress is inevitable; you think you're different from everyone else. History, to many people, is like a collection of folk stories. Things were bad but the heroes won and now we're all happy. To reckon that the same things that animated the villains can live within us, that they can animate us, because we're both human is a radical notion to many people. History is a closed book. The story began and ended. The world starts fresh with us.

That's why we're here assuming that the story will turn out OK. It always has before, right? History, to the peace-fed, is inevitable. But I've got bad news: we are as every empire has been upon the Earth. And eventually, our time will end. *That's* inevitable. It can die with violence and rebellion. It can die from arrogance and hubris. It can die from malice or apathy. It can die without us. What I fear now, what history has taught me, is that our empire can die in a halo of fire. It can salt the earth with radiation. This has been our truth since Hiroshima and Nagasaki. From that time, we have trusted Presidents to prevent it. Until peace rotted our brains out. Trump's comments on nuclear proliferation barely dented the cycle; they drew little attention. For a press that could maintain laser-like focus on server maintenance, it was a stunning oversight. Because history is inevitable. Because they thought the worst could never come to pass, they never entertained the worst-case scenario. They still don't. Our information infrastructure never condensed issues down in a way the public could understand and refused to direct our focus.

32 minutes. That was the amount of time spent on healthcare, on nukes, on foreign policy, on economics, on climate change, on children. When peace rots you, politics is about entertainment. They'll never *really* hurt people, so it's just about the flavor you prefer. So we had thousands of words and hundreds of minutes devoted to where the former Secretary of State kept her correspondence. And we had thousands of words and hundreds of minutes spent normalizing the demagoguery of a Know-Nothing anti-immigration reality star. Every minute we didn't spend on the issues is made up in hours. Hours of cleaning up Houston and worrying about North Korea. Hours of tutoring children at home and in afterschool programs because we didn't invest in their education. Hours of calling representatives to preserve our meager health benefits, to keep the lack of wealth from murdering us with disease. Hours spent marching for justice because our apparatus for it is run by a white supremacist who was defended by all-white colleagues. HISTORY IS NOT INEVITABLE. Peace is not permanent. It can be shattered by bad choices and damaged with poor investment. Don't let your vision of the world come through the lens of your own peace. You won't see war until it is too late to stop it. /fin
posted by chris24 at 3:45 AM on September 20 [176 favorites]


Rob Reiner and Morgan Freeman Declare ‘War’ on Russia: With the newly formed Committee to Investigate Russia, filmmaker Rob Reiner tells The Daily Beast he plans to do what President Trump won’t.

I am totally down with this so apologies for the workshop comment but dudes you could have skipped the close up of the eagle looking directly at the camera. [real]
posted by A Terrible Llama at 4:02 AM on September 20 [4 favorites]


Does he realise the UN isn't wrestlemania?

Rump sees the entire world through wrestlemania-tinted glasses, so that would be No.
posted by flabdablet at 5:11 AM on September 20


chris24, please tell me that well-done screed was not originally macerated through twitter.
posted by petebest at 5:19 AM on September 20 [8 favorites]


When peace rots you, politics is about entertainment. They'll never *really* hurt people, so it's just about the flavor you prefer.

QFMFT. And there will still be people who stay home or vote third party in 2020.
posted by Rykey at 5:20 AM on September 20 [14 favorites]


They'll never *really* hurt people that I care about, so it's just about the flavor you prefer.

Fixed it.

The difference between a liberal and a conservative is the size and composition of that "people that I care about" subset.
posted by delfin at 5:38 AM on September 20 [12 favorites]


n.b. ❄️Mama Snowflake ❄️️‏ @northeast_mama Sep 18
Just called Lisa Murkowski's office & was told they WELCOME calls from those outside the state.

Please call! 202.224.6665 #GrahamCassidy
posted by Doktor Zed at 5:38 AM on September 20 [41 favorites]


Reporting from the field that the reassuring nature of Roger Waters always being politically (and in all other ways) unsubtle and exactly what he says on the tin went down gangbusters here in Pittsburgh last night, and the crowd was the most enthusiastic it had been all night during the overtly Trump-bashing Animals-heavy second set. To a degree that surprised even me, since we keep hearing about people going to see Waters and apparently being unaware that he's a pinko ahead of time. It felt surprisingly validating.

Anyway, A+, would spectate again, and it was commentary in this thread that prompted me to buy tickets, so thanks!
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:41 AM on September 20 [28 favorites]


Everybody's a critic... the DPRK's news service tweets this in response to yesterday's speech at the U.N.: "Impotent threats by international shouting magnate Donald Trump are dismissed, as the twitchings of a Dog licking its flea-riddled scrotum."
posted by MonkeyToes at 5:50 AM on September 20 [14 favorites]


@DPRK_News is a parody account.
posted by Roommate at 5:53 AM on September 20 [5 favorites]


Nuts.
posted by petebest at 5:55 AM on September 20 [3 favorites]


Ah, sorry about that--thanks, Roommate!
posted by MonkeyToes at 6:02 AM on September 20 [1 favorite]


Arguably, so is @realDonaldTrump. There's not much difference any more.
posted by delfin at 6:14 AM on September 20 [14 favorites]


OTOH, "international shouting magnate" is pretty good...
posted by MonkeyToes at 6:16 AM on September 20 [23 favorites]


chris24, please tell me that well-done screed was not originally macerated through twitter.

'Tis the stormiest of tweetstorms.
posted by chris24 at 6:20 AM on September 20 [3 favorites]


NYT with Patrik Hermansson of Hope Not Hate:
Undercover With the Alt-Right

I can't find a direct link for the undercover video taken of Greg Johnson, embedded in the middle of the article (not the video at top), but what Johnson says to Hermansson is almost word-for-word the setup for Gilead in The Handmaids Tale. Eugenics, sterilization of undesirables, no birth control, expulsion of American Jews to Israel, on and on. And he hands him some typed document to peruse. It's like....want to join us, future-Commander Hermansson?

This is probably FPP worthy, but I'm just sitting here slack-jawed.
posted by snuffleupagus at 6:24 AM on September 20 [39 favorites]


'Tis the stormiest of tweetstorms.

bert_facepalm

Are you kids on dope?!
posted by petebest at 6:25 AM on September 20 [2 favorites]


Here's the Greg Johnson clips on YT via Hope Not Hate. Pull it up on YT, they have it segmented into a playlist.

There's going to be a documentary: My Year in Kekistan.
posted by snuffleupagus at 6:33 AM on September 20 [15 favorites]


Are you kids on dope?!

no
(some say that's the problem)
posted by entropicamericana at 6:34 AM on September 20 [4 favorites]


chris24: I have come to the inescapable conclusion that peace makes people stupid.

Stability breeds complacency, not just in politics and peace. If you don't need to fight to maintain something, be it a basic standard of living, a functioning democracy, or wide-spread illnesses, you can take things for granted. "Sure, we'll always have safe water, reliable electricity and paved roads, that's a non-question." Or "They're the same, both war-mongers who get paid by big corporations." Or "Vaccines aren't necessary, and might even make things worse."

No, No and No. Except what's the danger, everything is safe now?

The only certainty is entropy. Stability requires work, and when that work is so standardized as to minimize the public view of those costs and efforts, it's all the easier to write off those costs. "Sure, let's cut infrastructure and health care budgets, we really need to gear up for the impending war(s)!" say the actual war hawks, forgetting they got to the press conference on public roads, and their message gets out because the electrical grid is reliably maintained.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:05 AM on September 20 [27 favorites]


Guys, I'm going to call horrible weasel man Sen. Roy Blunt's office later this morning about Graham-Cassidy. Pray for me.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 7:16 AM on September 20 [30 favorites]


I resistbot-ed poopie-heads Joni Ernst and Chuck Grassley yesterday, and boy, was the bot not handling things well. It took 4 or 5 attempts over a few hours. I eventually got it to send a message but after looking at the preview it sent, it looks like it merged a couple of my attempts into 1 message.

Just something to be aware of.
posted by ArgentCorvid at 7:24 AM on September 20 [1 favorite]


NPR is doing a spectacularly shitty job of stressing the concern about the Graham-Cassidy plan on the whole. For instance, How Rick Santorum Got A Haircut And Revived The GOP's Obamacare Repeal Effort, on how Rick happened to get a haircut at the Capitol barbershop at the same time as Lindsey Graham, and at that moment Rick brought up his idea that basically became the Graham-Cassidy plan. Yes, it's interesting to read how this iteration of the GOP Doesn't Give a Fuck About Your Health Care plan came to be, but the only mention of how bad it is comes from a somewhat random link towards the end: Read a full analysis of the bill from NPR's Alison Kodjak here.

That link is titled "Latest GOP Effort To Replace Obamacare Could End Health Care For Millions," which actually emphasizes the terrible "features" of the latest plan.

But then there was the interview with Sen. James Lankford (R-OK), about possibly closing the embassy in Havana, and then Mary Louise Kelly asks about his vote on the Graham-Cassidy plan, without rebuttal. So he got to say "I do support it, it's a unique proposal that asks if states can take better care of their people," without being asked "why do you support increasing out-of-pocket costs and weakening or eliminating protections for people living with pre-existing conditions?"

And somehow the battle is summed up as a conflict between people who will have their health care taken away vs Republican voters who will be angry, as if that calculation is somehow hard to make. Hmm, bankruptcy and death due to an expensive yet manageable disease or ailment, or some angry voters? (These last two links are audio-only at the moment, but transcripts will go up later today.)
posted by filthy light thief at 7:29 AM on September 20 [10 favorites]


Also, isn't there a better term than "entitlements," which makes the recipients sound like they feel entitled to get something from the government, instead of treating health care as a human right?
posted by filthy light thief at 7:32 AM on September 20 [4 favorites]


NPR is doing a spectacularly shitty job

nic_cage_youdontsay.jpg
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:34 AM on September 20 [26 favorites]


Rick happened to get a haircut at the Capitol barbershop at the same time as Lindsey Graham, and at that moment Rick brought up his idea that basically became the Graham-Cassidy plan

Darkest stupidest timeline
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 7:35 AM on September 20 [6 favorites]


His only consistency is that everything he and/or his name touches is bad.

The Trumpist Touch.
posted by notyou at 7:38 AM on September 20


Is a Santorum haircut a, y'know, a thing? You can just say yes/no, because I'm not googling it.
posted by petebest at 7:38 AM on September 20 [2 favorites]


This article (linked above) clearly describes how young white men are being radicalized online something something terrorism something something beam in our own eye
posted by prefpara at 7:39 AM on September 20 [3 favorites]


Jesus fucking Christ Santorum has the brainpower of really stupid dust and we threw his ass out of office in PA over a decade ago, why the fuck is he still ruining my life?!
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 7:50 AM on September 20 [39 favorites]


‘It’s gonna end with concentration camps’: Alt-right executive boasts of a future Europe with Hitler on their money.
Jorjani also claimed to have connections within the Trump administration, and to even have spoken to the president himself.
posted by adamvasco at 7:53 AM on September 20 [6 favorites]


I have come to the inescapable conclusion that peace makes people stupid.

I am, for the first time in my life, worried that the president will decide to nuke somebody, and he won't be stopped.

Beyond the very real horrors of millions dying as a result, I am also worried that millions of white Americans will look on this with a shrug and say, "Well, you knew he was gonna do that." Normalization of mushroom clouds.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 8:01 AM on September 20 [8 favorites]


Cillizzas Gonna Cillizza:

"Righteous many." "Wicked few." A MUCH more poetic speech than Trump usually gives.

Where's that meteor when you really need it?
posted by tonycpsu at 8:04 AM on September 20 [1 favorite]


If only there was some way to communicate the horrors of nuclear weapons, or the rank insanity of our bewigged orange yellpot.

You know to lots of people at once. Somehow.
posted by petebest at 8:04 AM on September 20


These fuckers don't know or care what's in the bill.

Axios: Repeal first, ask questions later
The repeal-and-replace bill sponsored by Sens. Lindsey Graham and Bill Cassidy is gaining steam because it has the appearance of gaining steam — not because of the changes it would make. "If there was an oral exam on the contents of the proposal, graded on a generous curve, only two Republicans could pass it. And one of them isn't Lindsey Graham," a senior GOP aide told Caitlin.
Vox: GOP senators are rushing to pass Graham-Cassidy. We asked 9 to explain what it does
The GOP senators insisted that the tens of billions in cuts to federal health spending proposed in the bill would not result in coverage losses because, they said, the states would have more flexibility. “They can do it with less money,” said Sen. Jim Inhofe (R-OK), who was unable to explain how or why.

Other Republican senators, meanwhile, fell back on political explanations for a bill that experts warn could result in millions losing their insurance. “If we do nothing, it has a tremendous impact on the 2018 elections,” said Sen. Pat Roberts (R-KS). “And whether or not Republicans still maintain control and we have the gavel.”
But a new independent study came out that shows just how bad it will be. Not CBO, but probably the best we'll get.

WaPo: This new study deals a blow to Trump’s latest Obamacare repeal push
But as the new study shows, because of the bill’s funding formula, a lot of states will end up with substantially less federal money to spend on health-care coverage than they would have under current law. In the period from 2020 to 2026, overall the bill will mean a $215 billion cut to federal spending.
How is that $215b split? In states with R senators:

- Arizona would get $11 billion less
- Alaska would get $1 billion less
- Ohio would get $9 billion less
- Maine would get $1 billion less
- West Virginia would get $1 billion less
- Colorado would get $6 billion less
- Pennsylvania would get $6 billion less
- Florida would get $4 billion less

And that's just through 2026. "According to the Avalere study, if you factor in the total cuts under Graham-Cassidy from 2020 to 2036 — including 10 years after the block grants expire — that means a $14 billion cut to Alaska; a $133 billion cut to Arizona; a $161 billion cut to Ohio; a $17 billion cut to Maine; and a $27 billion cut to West Virginia."
posted by chris24 at 8:05 AM on September 20 [29 favorites]


I'm really curious about that Graham remark I heard on NPR a few times yesterday: "There are going to be a lot of Democrats struggling with a no vote,” [Graham] said. He goes on to say: "because at least eight of them, eight of them, their states do far better than Obamacare in terms of funding, and they have more control over the money. And that’s going to be a hard no."

What the f does that mean? I can't interpret it as anything other than vague nonsense, or brazen lying, or perhaps it's Opposite Day? I genuinely don't understand what he's getting at.
posted by witchen at 8:12 AM on September 20 [2 favorites]


Calling both of my senators' offices this afternoon. No hope for McConnell, but I'll give a righteous earful of "your first loyalty must be to the constituents who elected you, and this is stealing money from the state you represent" to both of them (I am still unclear on whether my telling Rand Paul how much this bill sucks counts in his this-is-not-cruel-enough worldview as a point in favor of or against it).
posted by jackbishop at 8:13 AM on September 20 [6 favorites]


snuffleupagus: NYT with Patrik Hermansson of Hope Not Hate
During his time undercover, he ... attended gatherings where extremists drank mead from a traditional Viking horn and prayed to the Norse god Odin.
Fuckin' Nazis are going to ruin LARPing. Assholes.
posted by hanov3r at 8:14 AM on September 20 [12 favorites]


Pat Roberts, R-KS, from that Vox article: If we do nothing, I think it has a tremendous impact on the 2018 elections. And whether or not Republicans still maintain control and we have the gavel.
(snip)
Look, we’re in the back seat of a convertible being driven by Thelma and Louise, and we’re headed toward the canyon...So we have to get out of the car, and you have to have a car to get into, and this is the only car there is.


I simply don't understand how Republicans think their electoral chances will be better once their constituents realize they've just lost their health coverage.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 8:14 AM on September 20 [14 favorites]


But what the f does that mean?

"I have decided to just lie on camera because we're not allowed to go on TV and say 'kill the poor' yet."
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:15 AM on September 20 [9 favorites]


I was just posting that VOX article, it is really astonishing reading. The GOP Senators interviewed (with the possible exception of Cruz) come off as hopelessly deluded and befuddled. They're obviously repeating talking points with no idea of how the bill actually works or the consequences.

Pat Roberts: Look, we’re in the back seat of a convertible being driven by Thelma and Louise, and we’re headed toward the canyon. That’s a movie that you’ve probably never seen —
[...]So we have to get out of the car, and you have to have a car to get into, and this is the only car there is.


John Kennedy: I think it’s an improvement over Obamacare, but I have sent four amendments to Lindsey [Graham] and Bill [Cassidy] that I think will strengthen the bill. The one I feel most strongly about is that I want the Medicaid work requirement — I don’t want it to be optional; I want it to be a requirement. Just like we did with welfare reform.
And number two, I want to get us to give guardrails to the states to say, “You cannot use these moneys to set up a state-run single-payer system.” I don’t believe in it. I think it’s a mistake.


John Barrasso: It gets the money out of Washington, lets people at home make the decision, and gets state legislatures involved, and governors involved. It moves money out of Washington. It’s away from socialism.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 8:16 AM on September 20 [9 favorites]


> This is getting to be like the end of Goodfellas. Do I hear "Layla"?

I can only hope so, because keeping up with everything between January 20th and today has been like the Ray Liotta coked-out-of-his-gourd-and-falling-apart sequence.
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:17 AM on September 20 [11 favorites]


Yeah, that Pat Roberts back-and-forth is crazypants. Senators actually say, "Yeah, this doesn't actually help anyone, but this is our last chance to do it, so we will." now?
posted by jackbishop at 8:17 AM on September 20 [1 favorite]


Also, isn't there a better term than "entitlements," which makes the recipients sound like they feel entitled to get something from the government, instead of treating health care as a human right?

Entitlements are, by definition, things to which people are entitled to get -- health care is a human right to which people are entitled, the same as other human rights.

Unfortunately, language being what it is, and the long campaign against entitlement programs being what it is, it also means the misperception of entitlment -- an assertion to a right that does not exist. It means, at once, both the existence and nonexistence of rights. When we talk about people 'feeling entitled,' implicit in that is, usually, that they are not actually entitled; and there has been such a sustained assault on the idea that people now generally mean 'entitlement' as a lack of rights, rather than the existence of them.

It is the best of words, and the worst of words; I don't have a better suggestion, but I agree that one is, at this stage, needed.
posted by cjelli at 8:17 AM on September 20 [7 favorites]


> I simply don't understand how Republicans think their electoral chances will be better once their constituents realize they've just lost their health coverage.

"Look over there! A war!"
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:18 AM on September 20 [18 favorites]


May a bighorn ram butt John Barasso in the nuts forever.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 8:18 AM on September 20 [2 favorites]


Fuckin' Nazis are going to ruin LARPing. Assholes.

And mead!
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:18 AM on September 20 [8 favorites]


I simply don't understand how Republicans think their electoral chances will be better once their constituents realize they've just lost their health coverage.

Conservatives hate minorities more than they like having access to healthcare. See also: The last Kentucky governor's election.
posted by dirigibleman at 8:23 AM on September 20 [9 favorites]


a $133 billion cut to Arizona

Which is why it is so strange that Arizona Governor Ducey approves of this bill. If you recall, John McCain was saying he would depend on the Ducey's stance on the bill to decide how he, McCain, would vote.



May a bighorn ram butt John Barasso in the nuts forever

I quoted his answer because it was so crazy to me. DC-provided healthcare is Socialism but state-provided healthcare is not?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 8:24 AM on September 20 [15 favorites]


Yeah, I get there are racial angles to killing the ACA. Totally get that. If Republicans could somehow limit the ACA to "only white people," they'd do it in a heartbeat and they'd all love it and praise it forever. But that kind of thinking is more the crazification factor and not encompassing the whole party (as voters, not just the politicians). What I'm saying is I don't see how they think this is gonna get them to 50%+1 of the vote in their states and districts in 2018. Because at that point, their white constituents are still going to be freshly angry that they can't afford healthcare.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 8:26 AM on September 20


State provided health care won't be socialism because under the Graham-Cassidy plan the states won't have the resources to provide health care.
posted by notyou at 8:27 AM on September 20 [18 favorites]


And number two, I want to get us to give guardrails to the states to say, “You cannot use these moneys to set up a state-run single-payer system.” I don’t believe in it. I think it’s a mistake.

I really don't understand how senators/representatives get away with imposing their own personal beliefs on their constituents when those constituents light up phone lines and fax machines stating that they want the opposite of those beliefs. Then again, I really don't understand how any of these people get away with anything anymore.
posted by Servo5678 at 8:30 AM on September 20 [19 favorites]


Remember how the last bill was, when you scratched the surface, a tax cut rather than a functioning health care bill? That's what Graham-Cassidy is, except replace "tax cut" with "attack on the very concept of federalism and the place of the federal government". It's a gigantic "states' rights" middle finger that's designed to re-energize the racists who might have put away their swastikas and hoods and MAGA hats after one of them took a knuckle to the dome.
posted by Etrigan at 8:32 AM on September 20 [19 favorites]


VOX Jimmy Kimmel: new Obamacare repeal bill flunks the Jimmy Kimmel Test has a rundown of Kimmel's monologue that was linked to by T.D. Strange but also this response from Bill Cassidy:
We have a September 30 deadline on our promise. Let’s finish the job,” he said in a statement provided by his office. “We must because there is a mother and father whose child will have insurance because of Graham Cassidy Heller Johnson. There is someone whose pre-existing condition will be addressed because of GCHJ.”

“I dedicated my medical career to care for such as these,” Cassidy said. “This is why GCHJ must pass."
Which makes me so angry, I'm gnashing my molars. Up is down and cutting billions from HC increases coverage.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 8:33 AM on September 20 [28 favorites]


“We must because there is a mother and father whose child will have insurance because of Graham Cassidy Heller Johnson. There is someone whose pre-existing condition will be addressed because of GCHJ.”

Is that so? Then by all means, Senator, bring them forward and let them speak.
posted by Faint of Butt at 8:36 AM on September 20 [9 favorites]


I really don't understand how senators/representatives get away with imposing their own personal beliefs on their constituents when those constituents light up phone lines and fax machines stating that they want the opposite of those beliefs.

Even worse he's not imposing his beliefs on his constituents, but those in NY and CA. States rights! ...unless I don't like it.
posted by chris24 at 8:36 AM on September 20 [18 favorites]


Is that so? Then by all means, Senator, bring them forward and let them speak.

Be careful with this. There are people who *might* benefit from GCHJ. These people are in red states that didn't accept Medicaid expansion. There are lower middle class people who earn too much for old Medicaid but not enough for subsidies in the individual market. If a red state, who didn't expand Medicaid, takes the money and turns Medicaid into a high deductible catastrophic coverage for all then yes, those people will be ever so slightly better off.

So yes, he could probably present them. And he would portray them as those who Obamacare "forgot". Nevermind the GOP governor who fucked it all up. Obamacare should have been built on the assumptions that Republicans would try to sabotage it.
posted by Talez at 8:40 AM on September 20 [16 favorites]


GCHJ?

Haha, WTF Bill Cassidy is doing everything he can in that statement to spread the blame.

Hey Senator, here's an easy way to clear away the stink: Vote "Nay."
posted by notyou at 8:42 AM on September 20 [2 favorites]


What I'm saying is I don't see how they think this is gonna get them to 50%+1 of the vote in their states and districts in 2018. Because at that point, their white constituents are still going to be freshly angry that they can't afford healthcare.

I'll be honest, I don't think their white constituents will vote them out. Their voters have proven time and time again that they are dumbfuck fuckwit gullible saps easily led around by their noses by cynical conmen and mendacious monsters.

The GOP can vote for this because it won't hurt them that much.
posted by anem0ne at 8:44 AM on September 20 [8 favorites]


'Righteous many.' 'Wicked few.' A MUCH more poetic speech than Trump usually gives.

"Losers." "Rocket man." Not so poetic.
posted by kirkaracha at 8:45 AM on September 20 [5 favorites]


I called Senator Gardner's Denver office and couldn't even get a connection. I was able to get his voice mail at his D.C. Office, but I don't know how much those count compared to speaking to an actual person. But I'm guessing my inability to even get through to the local office indicates they're getting swamped. And probably that they're understaffed because who wants to spend money to hear demands from yucky plebs.

But the fact that I called at all - holy shit. I don't order a fucking pizza if I can't do so online, such is my phone phobia. I don't think I had a chance in hell of changing Gardner's mind, but I was hoping that maybe hearing a plea from Colorado Springs, the conservative bastion of conservative bastions, might carry some weight.

Maybe I should have threatened to poop in his yard as well.
posted by bibliowench at 8:45 AM on September 20 [43 favorites]


Yeah, by virtue of Graham-Cassidy being a vehicle for taking money from blue states' Medicaid programs and transferring it to red states, it would have some beneficiaries, while still leaving the country as a whole far worse off. And, of course, the same people who could be helped by stealing Medicaid money from blue states would also get help if their own GOP legislatures and governors hadn't decided that letting them die of preventable causes was a fair price to pay for giving Obama the finger.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:46 AM on September 20 [8 favorites]


And never undersestimate the ability of the media to blame the woes caused by Graham-Cassidy on Obamacare.
posted by drezdn at 8:51 AM on September 20 [7 favorites]


Amy Held, NPR: Refugees Invited By Charity [Oxfam] Make Themselves At Home In Trump's Childhood Abode
A welcome mat was literally rolled out for refugees resettled in the U.S. at a somewhat unexpected locale Saturday: President Trump's childhood home.

In a very pointed message, international charity Oxfam invited four refugees from three countries to spend the day at the Queens, N.Y., home where Trump spent his earliest years.

"Oxfam hosted refugees at President Trump's childhood home to declare that all people, refugees included, have the right to a safe place to call home," Shannon Scribner, Oxfam America's acting director for humanitarian programs and policy said in a press release.
The home had been available through AirBnB; its listing was removed.
posted by ZeusHumms at 8:53 AM on September 20 [22 favorites]


I'm confused. I thought the Senate was limited to considering one amendment per topic per reconciliation, and the failed vote for the AHCA was it. How is the Graham-Cassidy plan getting considered?
posted by mad bomber what bombs at midnight at 8:55 AM on September 20 [1 favorite]


Let them pray to Odin. Odin's going to get them so good.

It's people who aren't careful round gods and wishes who make the best cautionary tales.
posted by glasseyes at 8:55 AM on September 20 [9 favorites]


glasseyes: Let them pray to Odin

Almost eponysterical.
posted by hanov3r at 8:57 AM on September 20 [17 favorites]


the shifty-eyed Catcher
posted by glasseyes at 8:58 AM on September 20


Let them pray to Odin. Odin's going to get them so good.

It's people who aren't careful round gods and wishes who make the best cautionary tales.


Agreed.
posted by ZeusHumms at 9:11 AM on September 20 [10 favorites]


If McCain votes for Graham/Cassidy and it passes I will punch [pictures of] every liberal I know who praised McCain for his "heroic" no vote on the last repeal bill.
posted by Cookiebastard at 9:12 AM on September 20 [5 favorites]


That's what Graham-Cassidy is, except replace "tax cut" with "attack on the very concept of federalism and the place of the federal government". It's a gigantic "states' rights" middle finger that's designed to re-energize the racists who might have put away their swastikas and hoods and MAGA hats after one of them took a knuckle to the dome.
I was at my cardiac doctor yesterday, and as usual was surrounded by people much older than I am. The local news was running and they showed a piece of Trump's speech. Immediately a conversation picked up between a few gentlemen there who launched into a tirade about how NYC is the devil, all democrats are thieves, and the federal government is sticking its grubby paws into everything, including "our" healthcare. Rush Limbaugh was discussed with admiring fervor.

Listening to this conversation made me incandescent with rage. All of these assholes were on Medicare, a FEDERAL program, and I know this because I listened to them all check in with their insurance details. The rich liberal "thieves" in NYC's taxes pay for a lot of our state sponsored programs out here in the red boonies of NYS. It took everything in me to not interrupt and ask the gentleman with the LVAD pack that costs 100 grand or more a year if he had paid for even a few months of this care with a lifetime of FICA contributions. Without the federal government, he probably wouldn't have an LVAD to prop him up while he awaits transplantation. GAH. I know one thing for sure--the Republican propaganda media machine is fucking effective.
posted by xyzzy at 9:17 AM on September 20 [74 favorites]


Yeah, I get there are racial angles to killing the ACA. Totally get that. If Republicans could somehow limit the ACA to "only white people," they'd do it in a heartbeat and they'd all love it and praise it forever. But that kind of thinking is more the crazification factor and not encompassing the whole party (as voters, not just the politicians).

I don't know why you think that.
posted by dirigibleman at 9:18 AM on September 20 [5 favorites]


What I'm saying is I don't see how they think this is gonna get them to 50%+1 of the vote in their states and districts in 2018. Because at that point, their white constituents are still going to be freshly angry that they can't afford healthcare.

The GOP has been successfully selling "you're hurting but it's OK because black people are hurt more" to white voters for decades. I don't know why you think this will suddenly cease to be a successful tactic.
posted by tocts at 9:22 AM on September 20 [9 favorites]


If McCain votes for Graham/Cassidy and it passes I will punch [pictures of] every liberal I know who praised McCain for his "heroic" no vote on the last repeal bill.

can we not with the my-allies-who-agree-with-me-on-99%-of-everything-are-the-real-enemy, it's already ruined twitter for me
posted by prize bull octorok at 9:23 AM on September 20 [29 favorites]


Why is it a big deal that Jimmy Kimmel is saying Senator Cassidy "lied to my face"?

Because despite the constant straight-up lies, the press continues to waffle with words like "misrepresentations." When does the media start saying "these people are straight-up lying" every hour of every day?
posted by rikschell at 9:26 AM on September 20 [56 favorites]


I'm confused. I thought the Senate was limited to considering one amendment per topic per reconciliation, and the failed vote for the AHCA was it. How is the Graham-Cassidy plan getting considered?

The Senate can consider one bill per topic, with unlimited amendments. Since the underlying AHCA bill was never defeated, it can be amended again and again and again before the budget resolution expires.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:27 AM on September 20 [4 favorites]


And, to avoid abusing the edit window:

The GOP's modus operandi for decades has been to couch going without important (frankly required) things like housing and healthcare as being issues of rights and morals -- that is, that we can't have government mandates for anything because gosh darn it, it's my right to not have healthcare if I don't want it. That's basically it -- their real goal is to keep taxes low for the uber-rich, but they get it done by claiming that anything else (e.g. dreaded TAXES) is a horrible imposition on the rights of citizens.

So no, I don't honestly think many GOP voters are going to connect the dots between a repeal of the ACA and who they voted for. They've been hoodwinked before into believing that policies that are demonstrably awful for them are for their own good because of the moral principle of the thing (principles conveniently with no real-world evidence to support them). They'll be hoodwinked on it again.
posted by tocts at 9:27 AM on September 20 [8 favorites]


Trump can't keep his word for 30 seconds in a row, and that loyalty only runs one way with him. Lot of these guys are gonna roll as soon as Mueller has a big enough threat or a big enough deal to offer them.

Belated thanks to Eyebrows for soothing my nerves.
posted by martin q blank at 9:29 AM on September 20 [2 favorites]


Then there is this South Dakota Legislator, Rep. Lynne DiSanto, who posted an All Lives Splatter meme on Facebook, who has now dropped her rudeness and skank.
posted by Oyéah at 9:30 AM on September 20 [2 favorites]


I really don't understand how senators/representatives get away with imposing their own personal beliefs on their constituents when those constituents light up phone lines and fax machines stating that they want the opposite of those beliefs.

The short answer is: it's more complicated than it appears.

The longer answer is that we have a long tradition in this country, and in many representative-democratic nations, of the Lawmaker Who Bravely Stands Up For What Is Right. Sometimes the things that will be in the long term health of the nation aren't very popular at the time. The Civil Rights Act, for example, did a lot of good, but many of the provisions it made room for (busing, for example) were so unpopular at the time that they were outright denied to get enough votes.

Most people don't agree that it should be all one or all the other - that the legislators should either do exactly what their constituents want with no exceptions /or/ that they should ignore their constituents totally and just do what they feel like. So at that point, we're deciding at what times it's okay to ignore your constituents and do what's right, not whether or not it's right to do so. And that's leaving out the "dance with them that brought you" factor.

And everyone's personal calculus is going to be different. And a lot of people are going to make decisions based on what polling says, not what the hyper-engaged constituents who happen to be calling their office say. Sometimes that's good. Sometimes that's bad. There's no universal bright line rules that can always be applied for universal acclaim.
posted by corb at 9:30 AM on September 20 [8 favorites]


Jesus fucking Christ Santorum has the brainpower of really stupid dust and we threw his ass out of office in PA over a decade ago, why the fuck is he still ruining my life?!

He's that guy who's always in your barber shop, only it's the Capitol barber shop, and he's also a giant creep
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:36 AM on September 20 [2 favorites]


Then there is this South Dakota Legislator, Rep. Lynne DiSanto, who posted an All Lives Splatter meme on Facebook, who has now dropped her rudeness and skank.

In a moral country this person would resign in disgrace, but we're in the upside-down.

Also, that stank ain't gonna wash off.
posted by kirkaracha at 9:36 AM on September 20 [2 favorites]


The Senate can consider one bill per topic, with unlimited amendments. Since the underlying AHCA bill was never defeated, it can be amended again and again and again before the budget resolution expires.

Thanks. I didn't realize each of these attempts was an amendment. I was led to believe after the last AHCA vote that the whole thing was tanked for this year.
posted by mad bomber what bombs at midnight at 9:36 AM on September 20 [3 favorites]


The longer answer is that we have a long tradition in this country, and in many representative-democratic nations, of the Lawmaker Who Bravely Stands Up For What Is Right.
Anyone who can convince themselves that kicking millions of people off of healthcare is morally equivalent to guaranteeing equal rights to all citizens regardless of color or creed is delusional.
posted by xyzzy at 9:39 AM on September 20 [5 favorites]


Yes. Many people are delusional. Many, many.
posted by Golem XIV at 9:43 AM on September 20 [4 favorites]




From yesterday: In a sharp departure from his predecessors, Health and Human Services Secretary Tom Price last week took private jets on five separate flights for official business, at a cost of tens of thousands of dollars more than commercial travel. [...]

Price, a frequent critic of federal spending who has been developing a plan for department-wide cost savings, declined to comment.


That's how one does journalism. I hope more members of the press are, ah, taking notes.
posted by Gelatin at 9:44 AM on September 20 [34 favorites]


Itsarepublicnotademocracy is the standard conservative excuse for representatives defying their constituents, and is largely internally incoherent. If the people want to elect someone who represents their interests, they should be free to do so, and if they want someone who doesn't represent their interests (i.e., who "will bravely stand up for what is right"), they are also free to do so. But under what conceivable logic would people choose the latter over the former? Representative democracy depends on the idea that, in many technical domains, it makes sense to elect trusted experts to represent voters who many not be able to adjudicate complex issues on their own. But it is incoherent and contrary to most accounts of human nature to say that voters would ever choose to elect a representative or system who directly opposes their explicit, well-considered views. Republicanism (small r) can justify delegation, but it can't really justify direct, flagrant contradiction of the popular will, unless it's willing to jettison any pretense of democracy whatsoever.
posted by chortly at 9:47 AM on September 20 [13 favorites]


it is incoherent and contrary to most accounts of human nature to say that voters would ever choose to elect a representative or system who directly opposes their explicit, well-considered views.

The thing is, most people aren't single issue voters, and it's even harder now than ever to be one. Most of the time when you vote for a legislator, you are picking between two people who share at least some of your views and oppose others. I have never, in my entire life, been able to vote for someone who shared all of my beliefs and values.

Right now, my priority is opposing Trump and fascism. That means I'm supporting an awful lot of people who don't agree with me on some of my other beliefs, I simply think it's more important to save the country overall. I'm not voting out anyone who stands up to Trump, even if they do something I don't ordinarily like. Right now, I am a single issue voter, and on that one issue my voice is powerful. When this is over, I will return to having a variety of issues I care about, and my ability to pick one and only one to carry the standard for is low.
posted by corb at 10:00 AM on September 20 [9 favorites]


Well crapknobs, I posted earlier but did something idiotic and it went poof so here it is again. Pardon the rerun.

I faxed this (via resistbot) to NC gov Roy Cooper this morning. Feel free to use/repurpose for your own resistance efforts accordingly.

----------------------------------
I'm a [NC] resident urging you to add your voice to the other 10 governors against passing the Graham Cassidy Heller Johnson amendment. This bill will cripple individual states' ability to tax healthcare providers to fund medicaid.

There is a group of 15 republican governors in support of this unconscionable bill.

Please add your strong voice to this bipartisan group of governors opposing Graham Cassidy and keeping it in the trash where it belongs:

John Hickenlooper
John Kasich
Bill Walker
Steve Bullock
Tom Wolf
Terence McAuliffe
John Bel Edwards
Brian Sandoval
Charles Baker
Phil Scott

You may find a copy of their joint letter on the colorado.gov website [link] titled "bipartisan_governors_letter_re_graham_cassidy_9-19-17.pdf".

Please join their chorus today.
----------------------------------
posted by yoga at 10:06 AM on September 20 [7 favorites]


can we not with the my-allies-who-agree-with-me-on-99%-of-everything-are-the-real-enemy, it's already ruined twitter for me

I think it would be reasonable to be angry at McCain for making a big, false show of high principle, only to vote Yea on this new atrocity, and I think it's reasonable to be mad at liberal commentators like Jon Stewart who helped him build that false elevated image over the course of his career, even if it would be a little silly to be angry at people who were justly happy that the previous atrocity didn't pass into law, and over-praised McCain as a result.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 10:09 AM on September 20 [11 favorites]


The thing is, most people aren't single issue voters

I can only speak to the Midwest, where I've lived all my life in a few different states , but I would argue that most people who vote are, in fact single-issue voters. The single issue has become "the other side is fucking crazy/stupid."
posted by Rykey at 10:10 AM on September 20 [9 favorites]


Add Maryland Governor Larry Hogan to the list of Republican governors in opposition to the G-C repeal bill.
posted by TwoStride at 10:16 AM on September 20 [17 favorites]




The thing is, most people aren't single issue voters, and it's even harder now than ever to be one. Most of the time when you vote for a legislator, you are picking between two people who share at least some of your views and oppose others. I have never, in my entire life, been able to vote for someone who shared all of my beliefs and values.

Yes, we are all forced to choose between representatives that encompass a bundle of policies, many not to our liking. That's an inevitable constraint imposed by representative democracy. But while that part is inevitable, when a super-majority of a public has a clear and considered view that is contrary to their representative's, it's not inevitable that the representative must stick to their own minority view. Many in fact do change their behavior, if not their views, to respect the clear views of their constituents. A demand for, and social norm for, this kind of behavior by representatives is more democratic than simply declaring that representative democracy is full of compromises. So while pushing our representatives -- especially those already elected -- to change their views or behaviors to conform with a majority of their constituents is certainly a practical challenge, it's still the democratic thing to do, and far better than the alternative. Just because we live in a representative system with tons of compromises, doesn't mean we have to accept that blanket excuse by representatives trying to wriggle out of respecting the views of their constituents.
posted by chortly at 10:20 AM on September 20 [2 favorites]


More private analysis and studies of the latest Trumpcare.

Century Foundation: Five Reasons Why the Latest “Repeal and Replace” Effort May Be the Worst

TL;DR - Higher premiums, fewer covered, less covered.


Commonwealth Fund: What Are the Potential Effects of the Graham-Cassidy ACA Repeal-and-Replace Bill? Past Estimates Provide Some Clues

TL;DR - 32 million lose coverage. Medicaid cuts would impact health care of 65 million.
posted by chris24 at 10:22 AM on September 20 [8 favorites]


For those wondering how the Republicans think they'll get re-elected in 2018 after condemning a lot of people to death the answer is: by condemning a lot of foreigners to death.

Coupled with rampant gerrymandering, which makes the House basically Republican for all eternity, they know damn well that all they need to do is bomb a random nation with a large Muslim population and the media, all their voters, and a depressingly large number of Democrats will reliably fall in line to praise Trump in the name of "unity", and the Americans they voted to kill by stealing their healthcare will get off their deathbeds to go vote Republican because there's a war on and they love killing Muslims.

The only real question is if Trump (or, rather, his aids since Trump is a gibbering idiot who can't plan something as simple as taking a shit) will time the war right or not.

I'm betting on a war sometime in August or September of 2018, probably with Iran as the designated victim. I'm betting more on September than August because the Republican brains remember the ill timed war Bush Sr. pulled and how by the time the elections came around the war fever had ended and he got voted out of office despite the war.

They'll want their war to be still in the sparkly bombing and heroic portraits on TV every evening phase when November 6 rolls around in 2018.

The trick, for the Republicans, will be to keep Trump from starting a war before time.

But I flat out guarantee that a great many of the Congressional Republicans, in addition to believing that they've sufficiently rigged the elections that they don't need to worry too much, are planning on using a war to pull through the 2018 elections. Quelling internal dissent by attacking an external enemy is a long known and mostly successful political tactic, it's worked for thousands of years and they think it'll keep working and I'm fairly sure they're right.

Americans, especially Republicans but also the whole news media and most Democrats, love nothing more than seeing US warplanes kill lots of Muslims and they'll shower praise and votes on the Republicans for supplying them with the holy war they so crave.
posted by sotonohito at 10:24 AM on September 20 [28 favorites]


Also, isn't there a better term than "entitlements," which makes the recipients sound like they feel entitled to get something from the government, instead of treating health care as a human right?

Entitlements are, by definition, things to which people are entitled to get -- health care is a human right to which people are entitled, the same as other human rights.
[...]
It is the best of words, and the worst of words; I don't have a better suggestion, but I agree that one is, at this stage, needed.


I wonder idly if, rather than finding a new word, we should expand the use of the current one? So instead of talking about my right to free speech, we could refer to my free speech entitlement?

Or to your Second Amendment entitlements.
posted by nickmark at 10:33 AM on September 20 [7 favorites]


This Stanford Professor Has a Theory on Why 2017 Is Filled With Jerks
“You can make the argument that we are living in Peak Asshole,” says Robert Sutton, a Stanford professor who, as the author of the iconic 2007 book The No Asshole Rule, is perhaps the world’s leading expert on the species. According to Sutton, the problem of “disrespectful, demeaning, and downright mean-spirited behavior” is “worse than ever,” which, while it may be bad news for humanity, is good news for The Asshole Survival Guide, the book Sutton came to New York to promote.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:36 AM on September 20 [13 favorites]


The Bill Of Entitlements.
posted by phliar at 10:36 AM on September 20 [4 favorites]


TL;DR - Higher premiums, fewer covered, less covered.

Finally, an example showing the value of the pedantic distinction between fewer and less!
posted by paper chromatographologist at 10:45 AM on September 20 [59 favorites]


Buzzfeed: Trump Is Using Targeted Facebook Ads To Reassure Supporters He Will Build The Border Wall
"There's been a lot of noise and a lot of rumors," reads the text of a Facebook ad from Trump's personal Facebook page that was targeted to specific users in recent days. "....WE WILL BUILD A WALL (NOT A FENCE) ALONG THE SOUTHERN BORDER OF THE UNITED STATES..." The ad concludes with a pitch for donations.

That all caps declaration is in contrast to a widely discussed tweet last week in which the president said the wall was already underway "in the form of new renovation of old and existing fences and walls." That led supporters such as Fox & Friends' Steve Doocy to ask "has the wall almost become symbolic?"

The personal Facebook page of Vice President Mike Pence is also running a version of the ad. One difference between the Pence and Trump ads is the VP's refers to "Fake News media," while Trump's calls out the "mainstream media." Both ads include a dig against "liberals in congress."

A White House spokesman told BuzzFeed News the ads are being run by the Trump campaign, and referred all questions to it. The Trump campaign did not respond to emails or phone messages about the ads.

The ads are not visible on the timelines of the Trump or Pence Facebook pages. They are, therefore, so-called "dark post ads" because they can only be seen by people the campaign chose to target with the message.
(emphasis mine)

This is amazing and awful: Trump-the-President is overtly telling the American public, repeatedly, that the wall will in fact be partly a fence, and will in fact consist partly of renovations of existing fencing; meanwhile, Trump-the-candidate is asking for money on the overt and explicit premise that it will not be a fence.

Those statements cannot both be true. Either Trump is lying to the American people, or he's lying to a subset of the American people who he wants to give him money. I mean he's really lying to both, but in terms of this ad though. And, on top of that, he's making those probably-false private statements in a way to hide them from the public.

'Trump lies to make money' is not a new story, but this is certainly a new variation of that story.
posted by cjelli at 10:46 AM on September 20 [79 favorites]


Donations, that is, to Trump's legal defense.
posted by ocschwar at 10:47 AM on September 20 [8 favorites]


Called my GOP Senator's regional office today; had a nice conversation about whether one hearing and 90 seconds of debate is sufficient for a bill that will transform the American economy and could cause millions to lose access to affordable healthcare (but we won't know because they won't wait for the Congressional Budget Office t