Daddy, daddy, you bastard, I’m through
October 24, 2017 10:00 AM   Subscribe

 
He's doing exactly the same thing that Ben Affleck was doing by publicizing the fact that he bought a puppy: trying to re-vamp his image.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:02 AM on October 24, 2017 [5 favorites]


well, at least it's getting easier to say gross, no thank you, and find other things to watch that don't put money in the pockets of such people. I hear Issa Rae just got another kickass deal to put something awesome in front of my eyes... more of her, please, and less of these garbage men.
posted by palomar at 10:09 AM on October 24, 2017 [35 favorites]


Well, except the point of the article is that his character isn't a revamp of his image--he's playing a boorish, misogynistic homophobe, which is pretty much exactly what his image is right now. So why is someone paying him to be the most terrible version of himself in a movie, and why did he think that was a good idea? An actual image revamp wouldn't be surprising, but doubling down and reminding the world what an ass he has been is really weird.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 10:09 AM on October 24, 2017 [7 favorites]


Mark Wahlberg says he hopes God forgives him for starring in Boogie Nights

If there is a list of things to be god needs to forgive you for I am pretty sure Boogie Nights isn't even in it.
posted by Artw at 10:10 AM on October 24, 2017 [91 favorites]


Well, except the point of the article is that his character isn't a revamp of his image--he's playing a boorish, misogynistic homophobe, which is pretty much exactly what his image is right now.

Oh, so they are making it cute?
posted by Artw at 10:10 AM on October 24, 2017 [9 favorites]


So why is someone paying him to be the most terrible version of himself in a movie

I think a movie should be made of me being the worst version of myself. 2 hours of me eating Easy Cheese on Ritz crackers, drinking red wine and alternately watching old episodes of Star Trek and Friends while enthusiastically sharing my opinions and predictions with my cat, who will wake up to glare at me or say "mrow?". Occasionally I will stop to read a text from my family and be too lazy to answer it.

Maybe I need a youtube channel.
posted by Emmy Rae at 10:16 AM on October 24, 2017 [87 favorites]


I think a movie should be made of me being the worst version of myself. 2 hours of me eating Easy Cheese on Ritz crackers, drinking red wine and alternately watching old episodes of Star Trek and Friends while enthusiastically sharing my opinions and predictions with my cat, who will wake up to glare at me or say "mrow?". Occasionally I will stop to read a text from my family and be too lazy to answer it.

So you're going to set up a twitch stream account, cool.
posted by Fizz at 10:17 AM on October 24, 2017 [22 favorites]


Daddy’s Home 2.

So it's a remake of The Shining?
posted by chavenet at 10:19 AM on October 24, 2017 [9 favorites]


watching old episodes of Star Trek and Friends

For a hot minute I got excited that there was a show called Star Trek and Friends.
posted by Rock Steady at 10:22 AM on October 24, 2017 [108 favorites]


watching old episodes of Star Trek and Friends

For a hot minute I got excited that there was a show called Star Trek and Friends.


i would totally pay CBS All Access for this show.
posted by briank at 10:23 AM on October 24, 2017 [24 favorites]


Star Trek and Friends.

"The One Where They Beam Down To That Planet."
posted by octobersurprise at 10:25 AM on October 24, 2017 [129 favorites]


Star Trek and Friends

Wait, is that a bunch of Romulans sitting around a coffee table talking about how Captain Janeway is derelict of duty?
posted by coffee and minarets at 10:26 AM on October 24, 2017 [16 favorites]


And occasionally they hang out in the crew lounge and order tea from the replicator while the weirdo plays Rigelian Harp music.
posted by bonehead at 10:27 AM on October 24, 2017 [14 favorites]


For a hot minute I got excited that there was a show called Star Trek and Friends

"The One Where the Salt Monster Eats Rachel"
posted by nubs at 10:27 AM on October 24, 2017 [64 favorites]


An actual image revamp wouldn't be surprising, but doubling down and reminding the world what an ass he has been is really weird.

Ironically, he keeps all the actual "image revamp" stuff under wraps. My ex-wife works with one the Guatemalan conjoined (now separated) twins at a middle school, and Mel not only helped fund the surgery, he comes to their birthday parties and checks in with the family. He is apparently seriously involved in a bunch of medical charity efforts in Latin America, yet it's practically a secret.
posted by sideshow at 10:30 AM on October 24, 2017 [4 favorites]


For a hot minute I got excited that there was a show called Star Trek and Friends

"The One Where the Salt Monster Eats Rachel"


Geordi La Forge= Ross
Deanna Troi = Monica
Beverly Crusher = Rachel
Jean-Luc Picard = Joey
William Riker = Chandler
Tasha Yar = Phoebe
posted by Fizz at 10:33 AM on October 24, 2017 [10 favorites]


So why is someone paying him to be the most terrible version of himself in a movie, and why did he think that was a good idea?

Because he is who he is and lots of people like that and Hollywood is mostly terrible.
posted by The_Vegetables at 10:33 AM on October 24, 2017 [5 favorites]


Data = Gunther
posted by Fizz at 10:33 AM on October 24, 2017 [10 favorites]


Star Trek and Friends

It might actually bring diversity to Friends, but I have my doubts...
posted by anem0ne at 10:35 AM on October 24, 2017 [4 favorites]


Ross, his break disputed
posted by middleclasstool at 10:35 AM on October 24, 2017 [76 favorites]


And occasionally they hang out in the crew lounge and order tea from the replicator while the weirdo plays Rigelian Harp music.

"Heading Out to Eden" or "Smelly Tribble"?
posted by Ber at 10:35 AM on October 24, 2017 [6 favorites]


Star Trek and Friends

It'll have the same completely nonsensical and unbelievable economics, though.
posted by anem0ne at 10:35 AM on October 24, 2017 [9 favorites]


I kind of want Star Trek and Friends to be a variety show featuring crew members from the various Treks, and weekly guests.

"Tonight on Star Trek and Friends: Ezri Dax and her Aerial Silks, Capt. Picard presents works by Debussy, The comedy stylings of Richard Pryor, Odo the Changeling Shape-Shifter, a performance by Gilbert O'Sullivan, and Mummenschanz!"
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 10:37 AM on October 24, 2017 [33 favorites]


I saw an interview where Mark Wahlberg was asked whether he had ever reached out to the Asian man he beat unconscious and blinded and he said no without a trace of guilt. Never even occurred to him. That was just a thing from where and when he grew up. Now, it turns out that man wasn't blinded, but Wahlberg didn't know that. He went way out of his way to make it clear he had no remorse whatsoever. I get that this crime happened when he was a kid, but you would think he would have reflected on the incident a little...
posted by xammerboy at 10:38 AM on October 24, 2017 [18 favorites]


Geordi La Forge= Ross

The One Where Ross Falls for a Hologram

Deanna Troi = Monica

The One Where Monica Falls for a Klingon

Beverly Crusher = Rachel

"The One Where Rachel Falls for a Ghost"

Jean-Luc Picard = Joey

"The One Where Joey Gets the Memories of Someone Else's Life, and a Flute"

William Riker = Chandler

The One Where Chandler Gets Duplicated by a Transporter Accident

Tasha Yar = Phoebe

"The One Where Phoebe meets an Oil Slick"
posted by nubs at 10:39 AM on October 24, 2017 [20 favorites]


2 hours of me eating Easy Cheese on Ritz crackers, drinking red wine and alternately watching old episodes of Star Trek and Friends while enthusiastically sharing my opinions and predictions with my cat, who will wake up to glare at me or say "mrow?". Occasionally I will stop to read a text from my family and be too lazy to answer it.

I could go for like a full day of this, never mind only 2 hours.

Re Star Trek and Friends - it's pretty interesting to see which version of Star Trek people use in their riffing in here. So far TNG is in the lead.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:41 AM on October 24, 2017 [3 favorites]


Movies audiences don't know and don't care. The target audience for this movie sees the trailers, sees Mel, then goes "OH YEAH" and proceeds to drive to the multiplex.

Yes, Hollywood knows better and should stop giving him work. But he puts butts in seats and amoral casting directors just don't care.

No one should see Daddy's Home 2 which seems execrable for numerous other reasons that include but go way beyond Gibson and if there was any justice in this world no one would pick it up on pay tv, cable, airplanes or blu-ray. The best I can do is pray that I don't have to watch it on a flight.
posted by GuyZero at 10:41 AM on October 24, 2017 [2 favorites]


"Tonight on Star Trek and Friends: Ezri Dax and her Aerial Silks, Capt. Picard presents works by Debussy, The comedy stylings of Richard Pryor, Odo the Changeling Shape-Shifter, a performance by Gilbert O'Sullivan, and Mummenschanz!"

No Shields & Tasha Yarnell?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:42 AM on October 24, 2017 [7 favorites]


So why is someone paying him to be the most terrible version of himself in a movie, and why did he think that was a good idea?

1) Because people have an incredibly short attention span for paying attention to this kind of stuff - like, as soon as someone mentions Star Trek and Friends (or whatever else), people would much rather talk about that than how awful Mel Gibson is

2) Because if you take an acting gig where you're the most terrible version of yourself, it's a bit of a mind-fuck - it throws doubt on whether the most terrible version of yourself is real, or if it's all an act
posted by 23skidoo at 10:43 AM on October 24, 2017 [9 favorites]


William Shatner is only about 40% as horrible as Mel Gibson, maybe less. He should've gotten that role.

/porque no los dos?
posted by allthinky at 10:45 AM on October 24, 2017 [2 favorites]


Because people have an incredibly short attention span for paying attention to this kind of stuff - like, as soon as someone mentions Star Trek and Friends (or whatever else), people would much rather talk about that than how awful Mel Gibson is

I don't know as there's much to say about Mel's shittiness as such. We all kind of agree, and we're pretty much all probably going to skip this movie. Ergo: Star Trek and Friends riffing.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:45 AM on October 24, 2017 [16 favorites]


Shatner is Twitter fash these days.
posted by Artw at 10:46 AM on October 24, 2017 [2 favorites]


Maybe he's just decided to emulate Nick DiPaolo?
posted by Pope Guilty at 10:48 AM on October 24, 2017


Re Star Trek and Friends - it's pretty interesting to see which version of Star Trek people use in their riffing in here. So far TNG is in the lead.

Friends was 3 men, 3 women. Pulling 3 lead women out of TOS is tough.
posted by explosion at 10:50 AM on October 24, 2017 [4 favorites]


So why is someone paying him to be the most terrible version of himself in a movie

They didn't need another hero?

I'll show myself out.
posted by octobersurprise at 10:50 AM on October 24, 2017 [8 favorites]


I don't know as there's much to say about Mel's shittiness as such. We all kind of agree, and we're pretty much all probably going to skip this movie. Ergo: Star Trek and Friends riffing.

Yeah, I wasn't really trying to poo-poo the riffing, but rather, to use the riffing as an example of how Gibson could get cast in a movie like this- people feel his shittiness is well-known enough that they don't want/need to talk about it, and so he gets to keep making movies, even if lots of people won't go see them.
posted by 23skidoo at 10:54 AM on October 24, 2017


Shatner is Twitter fash these days.

Also appearing on television would keep him from his true love, beefing with the Supernatural fan community about something possibly related to shipping that's utterly incomprehensible to me. It's at least half of his timeline right now.
posted by Copronymus at 10:55 AM on October 24, 2017 [6 favorites]


The number of Nos in this movie is amazing:
Mel Gibson=no
Marky=no
Will Ferrell and John Lithgow playing gay for laughts=no
the two girls who are trying to get into Hollywood and have to get their start among these scumbags=no
We can only hope that R. Kelly does the soundtrack or something. Gross.

I need to stop being surprised that there is an audience for offensive, oops I mean edgy, characters played for laughs. We're not all in on the joke when some people are the target of the joke.

The fact that crap like this is still made when apparently the jury is out on whether women can be funny or interesting as something other than a man's sexy arm candy is so depressing.
posted by Emmy Rae at 10:55 AM on October 24, 2017 [11 favorites]



They didn't need another hero?

I'll show myself out.


Do you need to know the way home?
posted by nickmark at 10:55 AM on October 24, 2017 [11 favorites]


Worf = Eddie?
posted by Fizz at 10:57 AM on October 24, 2017


Geordi La Forge= Ross

How could you do Geordi like this?????????????????

Jean-Luc Picard = Joey

Is this... a zen koan? Struggling to process...
posted by Emmy Rae at 10:58 AM on October 24, 2017 [13 favorites]


asking the powerful and very greedy people who run Hollywood to blacklist actors based on their moral and political beliefs could never turn out to be a double-edged sword...
posted by I hate nature. at 10:58 AM on October 24, 2017 [1 favorite]


I get that this crime happened when he was a kid

According to Wikipedia, he did it when he was 16. That's old enough to drive a car, which basically counts as a probationary level of adulthood in my mind. It's also more than old enough to know that what he was doing was wrong, the same as when he was 15 and threw rocks and shouted racial slurs at black kids.
posted by Strange Interlude at 10:59 AM on October 24, 2017 [6 favorites]


as soon as someone mentions Star Trek and Friends (or whatever else), people would much rather talk about that than how awful Mel Gibson is

The One Where the Crew talks about how awful Mel Gibson is

In all seriousness, as one of the worst ones for riffing on ST and Friends, it's because I think Gibson is a rephrensible piece of shit and I wish he wasn't being allowed back into Hollywood in any way, but the world is full of repugnant shit these days that I can't do much about, so making some jokes about mashing up two big pieces of pop culture is a small way of not losing my shit over the rest of the shit.
posted by nubs at 10:59 AM on October 24, 2017 [4 favorites]


Jean-Luc Picard = Joey

Sandwich...with bread...now.
posted by elsietheeel at 11:03 AM on October 24, 2017 [4 favorites]


When I originally saw promos for "Daddy's Home" I thought it looked horrible, or at the very least "I'm not the target market", and it apparently flew so under the radar that I thought recent commercials with Will Farrel and Markymark Funkybunch being dads were because the original "Daddy's Home" had been shelved for some reason and is now out for realsies. The fact that they made a sequeljust goes to show....something something.

Star Trek and Friends: Why does Ross, the largest friend, not simply eat the other five?
posted by AzraelBrown at 11:05 AM on October 24, 2017 [9 favorites]


Plainly, only Riker has the sustained douche-level for Ross in the TNG crew. This is inarguable.
posted by bonehead at 11:05 AM on October 24, 2017 [6 favorites]


moral and political beliefs

It's a good thing this is about his hating people, and not anything about his morality or politics, then. Those are not the same thing. There are lots of Christians with conservative politics that I find completely abhorrent who don't harass strangers and beat and threaten their girlfriends.
posted by Sequence at 11:09 AM on October 24, 2017 [6 favorites]


I think the closest TNG has to Ross's mild constant hysteria and self-hatred is probably Barclay.
posted by hanov3r at 11:09 AM on October 24, 2017 [13 favorites]


Ross with Q powers.
posted by Artw at 11:10 AM on October 24, 2017 [2 favorites]


(A horror story)
posted by Artw at 11:10 AM on October 24, 2017 [6 favorites]


Ross is clearly a Ferengi
posted by nubs at 11:11 AM on October 24, 2017 [5 favorites]


Tell me why I shouldn't judge Lithgow and Ferrell for appearing in a movie with Gibson. There's a reason I shouldn't judge them for that, right?

(I can't think of a reason I shouldn't judge them. I doubt either of them needs the money. but I am legit totally open to reasons why I shouldn't judge them.)
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 11:11 AM on October 24, 2017 [11 favorites]


Q putting the entirety of Hollywood on cosmic trial and finding it... GUILTY.
posted by Artw at 11:12 AM on October 24, 2017 [10 favorites]


William Shatner is only about 40% as horrible as Mel Gibson...

That’s still pretty bad. What’s Shatner done that I don’t know about? (Crimes against pop music don’t count.)
posted by TedW at 11:16 AM on October 24, 2017


***I'm sorry to coffee and minarets/the mods for the fact that we've derailed this thread so much. I'm going to say that we're talking about Star Trek and Friends because Mark Wahlberg, Mel Gibson, and Hollywood power dynamics are so depressing and ugly, it's our way of dealing with it all.***
posted by Fizz at 11:16 AM on October 24, 2017 [3 favorites]


Lithgow is also in Pitch Perfect 3 this year. I think he's given up...

(which is a shame, he could still EGOT.)
posted by elsietheeel at 11:18 AM on October 24, 2017


The Venn diagram of (a) people who decide to boycott movies based on the reprehensibility of their actors/directors and (b) the target demographic for Daddy's Home 2 looks like a pair of spectacles. So I don't suppose anyone thought they had anything to lose here. Also, they wouldn't have been aware, months ago when they were making this turd, that sexual harassment awareness would be having a Moment.

Currently I am weighing my desire to see the new Murder on the Orient Express against my lack of desire to see Johnny Depp ever again. I think he's more likely to try to be respectable than Mel Gibson is.
posted by Countess Elena at 11:19 AM on October 24, 2017 [8 favorites]


TedW - he's all about this nonsense these days: William Shatner Attacks Snowflakes, Social Justice Warriors, and Misandrists

(Not that he wasn't widely disliked as a showboating asshole during his prime)
posted by Artw at 11:20 AM on October 24, 2017 [8 favorites]


when i saw how many comments were made within an hour of the thread posting i was expecting it to be a lot of fighty depressing awful shit so the star trek derail is in fact wholly delightful
posted by poffin boffin at 11:20 AM on October 24, 2017 [28 favorites]


I don't even like Friends (don't @ me) but I love this mashup and want it to happen.
posted by Space Kitty at 11:23 AM on October 24, 2017


(And fuck a bunch of these sadistic, abusive assholes forever - why they don't die of shame is a crime against humanity)
posted by Space Kitty at 11:24 AM on October 24, 2017 [3 favorites]


Y'all need to be able to separate the art from the artist. William Shatner's work as a tireless promoter of Priceline speaks for itself, at least among true connoisseurs who love his contributions to the genre despite having reservations about him as a person.
posted by Emmy Rae at 11:25 AM on October 24, 2017 [6 favorites]


Lithgow is also in Pitch Perfect 3 this year. I think he's given up...

Lithgow is still putting in great performances in worthy productions. In the last few years he's been very good in Love Is Strange, surprisingly convincing as Winston Churchill in the Netflix series The Crown, and this year as a trump-like rich asshole in a terrific independent dark comedy called Beatriz at Dinner (in which Salma Hayek's performance is revelatory.)
posted by Atom Eyes at 11:26 AM on October 24, 2017 [3 favorites]


Nichelle Nichols, aged 74, ...recently told Shatner: “People say you’re a pompous, arrogant, egotistical, self-centred, narcissistic jerk.” She smiled, adding: “I don’t think you’re narcissistic.” (Source).

He's always been kind of an ass, but he's never really gone all the way to problem like Gibson. The SJW stuff is an example---nasty names and bun fights, but I've never heard of him implicated in anything actually criminal like harassment or racism, for example.
posted by bonehead at 11:29 AM on October 24, 2017 [4 favorites]


If the question is "why does Mel Gibson have a job after displaying shitty behavior and being a garbage person", the answer is "because someone did that and we still elected him president"

Every one of these scumbags has been re-empowered by the America we live in now.
posted by lumpenprole at 11:30 AM on October 24, 2017 [15 favorites]


Tell me why I shouldn't judge Lithgow and Ferrell for appearing in a movie with Gibson.

Well, just in general judging people by who they work with isn't a great idea. The values they espouse in their choice of jobs perhaps, but people tend to often give that a pass at some level of distance, say not judging people too harshly for working at Monsanto or Walmart or wherever hits your evil company button.

For Ferrell and Lithgow, this is their career. They are actors and want to keep acting. Neither has been exceptionally successful as late, so they are taking the roles they are being offered either out of lack of much choice or ones someone sees as the best shot at boosting their careers.

Is that sufficient justification? *shrugs* Can't say, and maybe the roles themselves are problematic, I don't know. But those are some of the reasons I'd be hesitant to judge an actor just for working with someone I found offensive.
posted by gusottertrout at 11:31 AM on October 24, 2017 [4 favorites]


William Shatner Attacks Snowflakes, Social Justice Warriors, and Misandrists

I can't get behind that.
posted by straight at 11:31 AM on October 24, 2017 [13 favorites]


Five years.

Whatever you do in Hollywood, if you are a white male you just need to "behave" for five years and then the inner circle lets you back in again.

You start getting hired again.

You get to joke about whatever gross/immoral/illegal thing you did.

Hollywood is all about the money. Nothing else matters.

Mel Gibson's "comeback" movie was the Beaver ffs.
posted by Faintdreams at 11:34 AM on October 24, 2017 [9 favorites]


2) Because if you take an acting gig where you're the most terrible version of yourself, it's a bit of a mind-fuck - it throws doubt on whether the most terrible version of yourself is real, or if it's all an act

I think that's it right there. It's similar to the logic of "I'm not actually a Nazi, I just say horrible things about Jews and people of color on the internet and harass them for LOLs."
posted by straight at 11:36 AM on October 24, 2017 [4 favorites]


Lithgow is also in Pitch Perfect 3 this year. I think he's given up...

At least the "Pitch Perfect" movies are cute and have a positive message. I wouldn't even ask if Lithgow needs a pass for those. "Daddy's Home 2", on the other hand, makes me wonder if he went a little too method on his role in "Dexter" and someone knows where the body is.
posted by haileris23 at 11:37 AM on October 24, 2017 [1 favorite]


mel gibson's insatiable, career-long need to luxuriate on-screen in obsessive, exhibitionistic, determinedly flamboyant sexual masochism would be endlessly fascinating to me if it weren't for all the racism, misogyny, homophobia, and Jew-hating. too bad. seriously, it is too bad. it ruins it.

I am really amazed he is permitted by anyone to be in their movies, although he can of course keep on making his own. then again, I am still amazed that everybody decided it was possible to watch Alec Baldwin without shame and nausea, but they sure did. probably because there are Gibsons in the world, against whom he can seem like the kind of good-time lighthearted misogynist nobody needs to worry about.

I also don't know how anybody brought themselves to watch Person of Interest, speaking of Gibson residue that doesn't wash off. (for those as don't know, it stars Jesus Caviezel, using his crucifixion voice throughout. and yes, I know that because I brought myself to watch it. it's gross, though.)
posted by queenofbithynia at 11:37 AM on October 24, 2017 [2 favorites]


Re Star Trek and Friends - it's pretty interesting to see which version of Star Trek people use in their riffing in here. So far TNG is in the lead.

Friends was 3 men, 3 women. Pulling 3 lead women out of TOS is tough.


on the other hand, it seems really easy to rewrite poc crew as white friends.
posted by anem0ne at 11:37 AM on October 24, 2017 [3 favorites]


I think that everyone who had anything to do with this movie (or works with Gibson in anything) should be ashamed and also I heartily approve of the ST/F derail.
posted by coffee and minarets at 11:39 AM on October 24, 2017 [4 favorites]


Ross is clearly a Ferengi

Ross is without a doubt a Pakled:
.... despite the marked lack of intellect, they proved to be far more cunning than they appeared, and used their innocuous appearance to deceive other races .... They were driven by their unwillingness to develop ... knowledge on their own, desiring to instantly gain the power that other cultures enjoyed .... They appear to be stupid, but they're not: they're just needy. They're so needy, they become desperate.
posted by solotoro at 11:43 AM on October 24, 2017 [10 favorites]


See I would have started with Worf=Monica and built from there.

I'm trying to imagine the reverse situation, where the TNG crew is living the Friends' lives, but they just seem bored.
posted by Emmy Rae at 11:45 AM on October 24, 2017 [8 favorites]


Ross is without a doubt a Pakled

God that was a tedious episode to get through. All of seasons 1 and 2 are, I guess.
posted by Artw at 11:53 AM on October 24, 2017 [1 favorite]


The Holodeck : TNG :: Ugly Naked Guy's apartment : Friends.
posted by octobersurprise at 11:53 AM on October 24, 2017 [3 favorites]


Star Trek and Friends

Is that the one where they team up to fight Magneto and Hobgoblin? Because I'd also watch that.
posted by UltraMorgnus at 11:55 AM on October 24, 2017


Worf/Ross trying to teach his son Alexander/Ben about traditional Klingon culture. It's the Christmas episode. Worf is dressed up as Kahless the Unforgettable.
posted by Fizz at 11:56 AM on October 24, 2017 [5 favorites]


So why is someone paying him to be the most terrible version of himself in a movie, and why did he think that was a good idea?

Probably because Charlie Sheen did exactly the same thing on Two and a Half Men, which was hugely successful for many years, leading Sheen to be the most highly paid person in episodic television, leading his ego to become even more inflated, leading him to turn on Chuck Lorre, the guy who came up with the idea to have him play himself. (The circle of liiiiife....) Anyway, someone thinks that this dumpster fire will make money, and I'm becoming way too cynical in the current zeitgeist to say that it's not likely.

As for Star Trek and Friends, I never watched Friends so I'll just imagine that it would be like Community, with Shatner in the Pierce Hawthorne role.
posted by Halloween Jack at 11:59 AM on October 24, 2017 [5 favorites]


C'mon, people! Mad About Q is RIGHT THERE.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 12:08 PM on October 24, 2017 [29 favorites]


Picard was mad about Q in like every 6th episode, I dunno, seems kind of played out.
posted by GuyZero at 12:09 PM on October 24, 2017 [3 favorites]


In defense of William Shatner, from what I've seen of his feed, most of his time on Twitter is spent deliberately trolling and attacking a certain section of tumblr and Twitter users who get waayyy too into their shipping of other actors, as we've discussed before with regards to Outlander, but he seems to be a friend/defender of the Supernatural cast as well (well, except he and Misha Collins who have an elaborate, ongoing over-the-top hatred of each other reminiscent of Jimmy Kimmel and Matt Damon). This is not to say that Shatner is not a terrible person - on the contrary, Shatner is not only a huge asshole but seems to positively delight in being an asshole - but he does seem to at least try to aim his assholeness at people who deserve it, or at least, who harass his friends online.

I also don't know how anybody brought themselves to watch Person of Interest, speaking of Gibson residue that doesn't wash off. (for those as don't know, it stars Jesus Caviezel, using his crucifixion voice throughout. and yes, I know that because I brought myself to watch it. it's gross, though.

This seems like a really weird reason to not watch Person of Interest, which snuck onto CBS in the disguise of a typical CBS procedural and grew into an excellent show and a fascinating exploration of what AI could be like/could be capable of. I've never seen Passion of the Christ though, if I ever do maybe I'll very distracted that Jesus sounds just like the guy from PoI.

I just want to add that I've never watched Friends and this thread is the closest I've ever come to feeling like I should watch it.
posted by mstokes650 at 12:12 PM on October 24, 2017 [3 favorites]


Star Trek and Friends


Chekov: "Keptin, they're coming right at us!"

Kirk: "Pivot. PIVOT! PIVOOOT!!"

-
posted by darkstar at 12:13 PM on October 24, 2017 [11 favorites]


Enterprise separates its saucer section.

Picard, later: We were on a break!
posted by nubs at 12:16 PM on October 24, 2017 [3 favorites]


In Uhh Yeah Dude from Oct 10, Seth has a killer #StopTheseDaddies rant.
posted by ajryan at 12:17 PM on October 24, 2017


I admit I've never seen a full episode of Seinfeld, so a lil help? My meeting with the network is in like 15 minutes and I need to flesh out Sisko ASAP.

Seinfeld -> Sisko
Elaine -> Kira
George -> O'Brien
Kramer -> Odo
posted by robocop is bleeding at 12:21 PM on October 24, 2017 [3 favorites]


on the other hand, it seems really easy to rewrite poc crew as white friends.

Geez, I thought we were going the other way and imagining the POC crew living gently-zany lives in late 90s New York.
posted by muddgirl at 12:22 PM on October 24, 2017 [4 favorites]


I also don't know how anybody brought themselves to watch Person of Interest, speaking of Gibson residue that doesn't wash off. (for those as don't know, it stars Jesus Caviezel, using his crucifixion voice throughout. and yes, I know that because I brought myself to watch it. it's gross, though.

Wait, just because Jim Caviezel played Jezus in a Mel Gibson movie, you can't watch him in anything else ? weird....
posted by Pendragon at 12:24 PM on October 24, 2017 [2 favorites]


it stars Jesus Caviezel, using his crucifixion voice


No spoilers, please!

:-P
posted by darkstar at 12:31 PM on October 24, 2017 [6 favorites]


She's your lobster. C'mon you guys. It's a known fact that lobsters fall in love and mate for life. You can actually see old lobster couples, walking around their tank, you know, holding claws. ... See? He's her lobster! - Troi, about Picard and Crusher
posted by nubs at 12:32 PM on October 24, 2017 [1 favorite]


So I thought this would be about how we excuse or allow unrepentant white male aholes in Hollywood to "redeem" themselves... but thats too serious, so instead lets just talk about fun TV show mash-ups and elect a reality star as president.
posted by Anchorite_of_Palgrave at 1:04 PM on October 24, 2017 [4 favorites]


So I thought this would be about how we excuse or allow unrepentant white male aholes in Hollywood to "redeem" themselves...

The thing is that Gibson isn't even redeemed. He's an asshole and everyone knows it and apparently it has no bearing on whether he can get work or not.
posted by GuyZero at 1:10 PM on October 24, 2017 [5 favorites]


They think he's redeemed enough to wave around in front of us, which is gross.
posted by Artw at 1:15 PM on October 24, 2017 [2 favorites]


The thing is that Gibson isn't even redeemed. He's an asshole and everyone knows it and apparently it has no bearing on whether he can get work or not.

Yup. And the takeaway is that in the modern era, he clearly could run for President and carry 304 electoral votes despite (because of?) his being an unredeemed racist asshole.
posted by darkstar at 1:17 PM on October 24, 2017 [3 favorites]


Except not, because he's Australian. [technicality!]

Fuck it, Dude. Let's go bowling. Let's talk about Star Trek and Friends.
posted by elsietheeel at 1:24 PM on October 24, 2017 [5 favorites]


on the other hand, it seems really easy to rewrite poc crew as white friends.

Geez, I thought we were going the other way and imagining the POC crew living gently-zany lives in late 90s New York.


Yeah, that was my take. Like, I didn't want Matt LeBlanc in the captain's chair, saying "engage." I want Patrick Stewart saying "whoa!"
posted by explosion at 1:25 PM on October 24, 2017 [12 favorites]


ross is the most likely to be actually kinda pro-Borg.
posted by Artw at 1:25 PM on October 24, 2017 [3 favorites]


With regards to Gibson being redeemed. I felt like we got a small taste of people trying to turn that around a few years ago when Jodie Foster directed The Beaver. And a bunch of critics at that time were talking about how great it was and it was a return to form and all this other bullshit. And all I could think about was the drunken slurs from that video that circulated forever ago. I've never forgotten the way he talked about people of the Jewish faith. It was disgusting.

I wrote Gibson off a long time ago and I've avoided all of his films since then. Even Braveheart (even with all of its historical inaccuracies) was something I enjoyed for a number of years. Any time I see his face on screen, I get angry and think of that video. So fuck that and fuck him.
posted by Fizz at 1:27 PM on October 24, 2017 [4 favorites]


One thing I kind of wonder, was he always such a shithead? I mean, it's easy to beleive he is now he's all decayed and nasty and a bit of a joke, but back when he was a young charismatic actor was the same evil underneath?

Mainly i just still want to enjoy watching the Mad Max movies i guess. See also Clint Eastwood
posted by Artw at 1:37 PM on October 24, 2017 [2 favorites]


Mainly i just still want to enjoy watching the Mad Max movies i guess. See also Clint Eastwood

Yeah, Eastwood as a mostly silent western star is still bearable (but still kind of problematic) but his directorial features from the last decade, I avoid because I do not want to support that kind of crazy in any way.
posted by Fizz at 1:40 PM on October 24, 2017 [1 favorite]


Mel is just getting ready for a presidential run, all the bad stuff has been unearthed, he can just go forward now, into the limey light.
posted by Oyéah at 1:41 PM on October 24, 2017


I rewatched Tim a few months ago. I was amused. Maybe that's the sort of film/role Mel should have stuck with...

(Also I had no idea he was born in New York. I guess he could be president after all. That's terrifying.)
posted by elsietheeel at 1:44 PM on October 24, 2017 [1 favorite]


So I thought this would be about how we excuse or allow unrepentant white male aholes in Hollywood to "redeem" themselves... but thats too serious so instead lets just talk about fun TV show mash-ups

He's already a hugely successful asshole, you want him to take the spotlight from Star Trek/Friends mashups, too?
posted by octobersurprise at 1:50 PM on October 24, 2017 [6 favorites]


Mel is just getting ready for a presidential run

Gibson/Bald Demon Baby 2020.
posted by octobersurprise at 1:52 PM on October 24, 2017 [2 favorites]


Yeah, that was my take. Like, I didn't want Matt LeBlanc in the captain's chair, saying "engage." I want Patrick Stewart saying "whoa!"

“Could the prime directive BE MORE broken!?!”
~ Riker/Chandler voice ~
posted by Fizz at 1:54 PM on October 24, 2017 [11 favorites]


it stars Jesus Caviezel

with or without the motorcycle?
posted by Iris Gambol at 2:04 PM on October 24, 2017


I've never bothered to screen Passion. I did notice his performance in Déja vu with great interest as he realized a convincing psychopathic American terrorist personality in a role I hadn't seen since Diane Sawyer interviewed Charles Manson in '93. That performance reprised in "Person of Interest" is the one I associate with Caviezel, typecast actor.

I had neither idea nor interest in Jim Caviezel's sacrifices, so to speak, until today. So there's that uncanny uh intersection in terms of art.
posted by marycatherine at 2:07 PM on October 24, 2017


... to seek out new life and new civilizations ...
How ya doin'?
posted by octobersurprise at 2:30 PM on October 24, 2017 [2 favorites]


Ok, I don't really have the time or technical ability to make it better than this right now, but here's a first look at opening credits for Star Trek and Friends
posted by nubs at 2:34 PM on October 24, 2017 [29 favorites]


OMFG, NUBS?!?! THAT WAS PERFECT?!! :D :D
posted by Fizz at 2:52 PM on October 24, 2017


So, no one told you Romulans would be this way,
Your warp drive's broke; they're cloaked;
They've hit your shuttlebay.
Seems like you're always stuck in impulse drive,
This hasn't been your stardate, week, or month,
Or even your life.
But I’ll be there for you,
When we lose all our shields.
I’ll be there for you,
And our integrity field.
And you’ll be there for me,
‘Cause you're my Imzadi-i!
posted by The Underpants Monster at 3:09 PM on October 24, 2017 [8 favorites]


OMG nubs! So many great touches. Love how you handled Wesley. The timing of the Enterprise at warp at the end. Perfect.
posted by Emmy Rae at 4:02 PM on October 24, 2017 [1 favorite]


> I admit I've never seen a full episode of Seinfeld, so a lil help? My meeting with the network is in like 15 minutes and I need to flesh out Sisko ASAP.

Seinfeld -> Quark
Elaine -> Quark
George -> Quark
Kramer -> Quark
posted by Spathe Cadet at 4:02 PM on October 24, 2017 [5 favorites]


Anchorite_of_Palgrave: "So I thought this would be about how we excuse or allow unrepentant white male aholes in Hollywood to "redeem" themselves... but thats too serious, so instead lets just talk about fun TV show mash-ups and elect a reality star as president."

Truly, if Metafilter threads had just been more willing to deal with the hard issues last year, Trump would never have been elected.
posted by Chrysostom at 4:25 PM on October 24, 2017 [9 favorites]


Wait, just because Jim Caviezel played Jezus in a Mel Gibson movie, you can't watch him in anything else ? weird....

yes, voluntarily playing the King of Kings in the Bigot of Bigots sexy anti-semitic snuff porno extravaganza is the kind of thing I hold a grudge about. can you think of a reason not to?

I did see the Passion of the Caviezel -- in a theater, even -- because I couldn't stand not to know. for my sins in giving a few cents to Mel and a few fewer cents to Caviezel, I atone every chance I get by insulting the both of them and also by spoiling the movie for anyone who might be tricked into reading spoilers. here goes: in The Passion, Jesus is such a good carpenter that he invents the chair. Everyone is very pleased.
posted by queenofbithynia at 4:27 PM on October 24, 2017 [6 favorites]


This is not to say that Shatner is not a terrible person - on the contrary, Shatner is not only a huge asshole but seems to positively delight in being an asshole - but he does seem to at least try to aim his assholeness at people who deserve it, or at least, who harass his friends online.

Ah, right, that's why, based on false information and lies, he attacked and blocked autistic people and allies who informed him that Autism Speaks is problematic after he'd tweeted support for AS.

I'm trying to come up with an appropriate analogy. The best I'm finding is that it's like tweeting "I support feminism, which is why I just donated to Phyllis Schlafly" and then getting angry at the people who respond "hey, she's totally not feminist, don't do that".
posted by Lexica at 4:47 PM on October 24, 2017 [5 favorites]


Truly, if Metafilter threads had just been more willing to deal with the hard issues last year, Trump would never have been elected.

Put it this way, if I showed up in your ST mashup thread and starting ranting about racism in unrelated actors, there would probably be pushback.
posted by lumpenprole at 4:51 PM on October 24, 2017 [2 favorites]


There's generally about 0-2 degrees of Kevin Bacon between someone who rants on Twitter about SJWs and actual IRL neonazis so fuck him as far as i am concerned.
posted by Artw at 4:55 PM on October 24, 2017 [1 favorite]


"Next week on Star Trek and Friends: Commander Data and his Acrobatic Cats...The music of Chicago...The Riker Brothers and their Dueling Trombones...The Insult Comedy of Lwaxana Troi...Johnny Cash, The Man in Black...Trick Shooting from Colonel Kira Nerys...and special guest Paul Lynde!"
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 5:01 PM on October 24, 2017 [12 favorites]


(You guys are giving me too much credit; all I did was find a video someone else made for a TNG intro like an 80s show and then used a website that allows you to use video from one you tube source with audio from another. That’s why the video is actually longer than the song. Plus, I would have wanted images like Data tap dancing in there. Anyways, I feel I’ve contributed more than enough to this derail so I should probably shut up now)
posted by nubs at 5:19 PM on October 24, 2017


I feel like this might fail to launch. ‘The Beaver’ didn’t do all that well. Does Hollywood really have that long a memory about a guy who “put butts in seats” over a decade ago?
posted by Selena777 at 5:37 PM on October 24, 2017


already a thing
posted by Television Name at 5:45 PM on October 24, 2017


Does Hollywood really have that long a memory about a guy who “put butts in seats” over a decade ago?

This is my hope - that he's no longer relevant enough outside his core fan group to stage a comeback. He was never THAT good of an actor.

Like, I remember when Robert Downey, Jr. was persona non grata in Hollywood, I would go back and watch Chaplin and hope he could pull himself together. Not sure there's that much hope out there for Gibson outside the Angry Old I'm Not A Racist But I Really Am Club.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 5:56 PM on October 24, 2017 [1 favorite]


RDJ was that good of an actor, though.
posted by Selena777 at 6:53 PM on October 24, 2017 [1 favorite]


RDJ was that good of an actor, though.

Yes, that was the entire point of my comment.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 7:36 PM on October 24, 2017 [2 favorites]


(Chaplin is one of my desert island movies.)
posted by The Underpants Monster at 7:39 PM on October 24, 2017


Funny RDJ is brought up, he's definitely a person who's probably on Team Gibson, because I recall he's been on the record for being grateful for Mel Gibson for giving him a chance on the Singing Detective iirc. He's been on-record about how much he felt he owed his career resurgence post-incarceration to Mel G.
posted by cendawanita at 10:05 PM on October 24, 2017 [1 favorite]


NEWSFLASH

MAN IS ABLE TO DO GOOD THINGS WHILST SIMULTANEOUSLY BEING RESPONSIBLE FOR SOME PRETTY SHADY SHIT

wait, CAPSLOCKDAY is over...

The fact that Gibson may do charity work and all is great but it doesn't really excuse the level of abuse he has flung about. RDJ fucked himself up but wasn't hateful in his behaviour. I think the two are different.
posted by trif at 3:37 AM on October 25, 2017 [3 favorites]


Sure. I'll always appreciate RDJ's career resurgence.

I was thinking more about how missing stairs happen and assholes keep getting second chances tho.
posted by cendawanita at 7:20 AM on October 25, 2017


yes, voluntarily playing the King of Kings in the Bigot of Bigots sexy anti-semitic snuff porno extravaganza is the kind of thing I hold a grudge about. can you think of a reason not to?

Hey, it's fine by me. But, how far would you take this ? Do you also boycot movies distributed by 20th Century Fox ? Don't listen to soundtracks published by Sony Music ?
posted by Pendragon at 8:04 AM on October 25, 2017 [1 favorite]


I can't get behind that.

Henry Rollins sees what you did there.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 8:39 AM on October 25, 2017



Hey, it's fine by me. But, how far would you take this ?


Mel and Mel-affiliated Jesus pals, like I say. [1] but not as stringently as I ought to, like I also say, since I've seen the things I was talking about. plus anybody else famous who's been recorded yelling abuse at their wives and daughters; racists; and rapists. that I have occasion to know about and whose names I can remember. unless they are dead.

that sure is a lot of people, isn't it

there is a bar called the Gibson in DC and I do not condemn it, because of nuance, but I do not drink actual Gibsons, because of political purity.

[1] I also condemn the drawings of Charles Dana Gibson and the singing of Mel Torme
posted by queenofbithynia at 9:16 AM on October 25, 2017


On the one hand, I generally try to separate the art from the artist. On the other hand, this isn't art, and he isn't an artist.
posted by el io at 1:48 PM on October 25, 2017 [1 favorite]


and on the little-known third hand it's generally best to understand the meaning of creative productions in terms of their effect on the world at a particular time, rather than treating them as objects that must be assessed for their qualities in and of themselves. Some of the effects of Daddy's Home 2 are related to the quality or whatever of the writing and performances and how that affects audiences who watch it. Some of the effects, though, are related to the movie's conditions of production rather than its conditions of reception. It gives certain people jobs, it makes certain people spend a lot of time around other certain people, etc. etc. One of the things that this movie does (which cannot be separated from the "meaning" of the movie) is materially indicate that it's acceptable for folks to make movies featuring Mel Gibson again, and that it's acceptable for folks like John Lithgow to appear on-screen next to him.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 2:16 PM on October 25, 2017 [3 favorites]


How the hell does Riker = Chandler work when Riker and Joey are both womanizers and Chandler is a sarcastic dork?
posted by AFABulous at 2:39 PM on October 25, 2017 [1 favorite]


and on the little-known third hand

That's the gripping hand.
posted by Chrysostom at 2:48 PM on October 25, 2017 [5 favorites]


While Ross lacks the honor and courage of a Klingon, he does have a mercurial temper. If we're sticking to regular characters, I guess I’d have to match Ross with Worf (although Worf would probably kill me for that dishonor). Or maybe Data, with his inability to understand human relationships.

But I think I prefer Worf, because the show tried to make that whole romance with Troi happen, and it was just all weird and wrong no matter how much the show told us we should enjoy it, and Troy is obviously Rachel.

Dr. Crusher is Phoebe. Not really dumb, but a little dizzy sometimes. Works with people's bodies on tables, but spends a lot of her free time in the performing arts. And Phoebe would totally have an affair with the ghost who was banging her late grandmother.

Chandler and Joey are Geordi and Riker.

That leaves the ship's computer as Monica. She's the know-it-all who makes all the food, and she dates the Chandler-figure when Geordi falls in love with the computer simulation of Dr. Brahms on the Holodeck.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 4:15 PM on October 25, 2017 [3 favorites]


How the hell does Riker = Chandler work when Riker and Joey are both womanizers and Chandler is a sarcastic dork?

Riker and Chandler are insecure in a similarly pathetic way. They try to say clever things because they think they are smarter than other people realize. Riker is kind of creepy about his womanizing while Joey is more enthusiastic and ultimately I think respectful.

I think IF we're taking a strictly gender locked approach it's gotta be Geordi=Joey because they are both warm and open types while Riker/Chandler gets their underwear in a wad about something no one else cares about.

However after further consideration I propose that Geordi=Rachel. They care deeply about their friends and generously want what's best for them. They are accepting of others and they don't usually spend time trying to gain rank. They are very good at their job. And this description sounds like a placemat description of your zodiac animal at a Chinese restaurant.
posted by Emmy Rae at 7:19 PM on October 25, 2017 [2 favorites]


Riker and Chandler are insecure in a similarly pathetic way.

Yes, but I think there's great comedic potential in Chandler's snarky delivery when paired with Data's lines, for example:

With regard to romantic relationships, there is no real me.
posted by nubs at 7:53 PM on October 25, 2017


Wow mefi, when did you become so polarized? I've been a member of this site for over 10 years and only recently have returned.

- Wahlberg did the time, for a crime committed in the late 80s and the washington post link shows that even one of his direct victims does think he should get a pardon. That quote is at the bottom.

The top quote in the article is someone who thinks someone like Wahlberg, who is racist once, is racist forever, which is deeply irresponsible to think. The article accuses him of benefitting from white privilege, but being white has nothing to do with any social advantage here. It's all hollywood, not race.

-People are complaining hollywood is all about the money. EVERY large industry is all about the money. CEOs of public companies can be legally fired for not taking the decision that maximizes profits for the company. The entire structure is built that way.

-Gibson and Wahlberg have already lost 10s of millions of dollar in lost working years from negative publicity. Gibson has experienced severe social ostracization for years.

-Race ("white males") has nothing to do with this. You can't possibly generalize the experience of two people in highly specialized jobs, in a very specialized, close knit and diverse industry, to the entirety of a race. This is just political nonsense.

-Punishment must fit the crime. Gibson said only so many articles of hate speech. He has suffered dearly for it. Where do you draw the line? So many say never and that is ridiculous in the face of the law. We have rules for this, Wahlberg has faced a legal process for his actions. His crimes worth burning him at the stake for were done nearly 30 years ago. There is a statute of limitations on everything, but not in the eyes of some readers here?

In the wake of Harvey Weinstien, how can we so strongly villify Gibson's words and still leave space for a proportional reaction for Harvey?

Mefi has seriously and completely swung hard left if the comments here are to be representative.
posted by Submiqent at 6:32 AM on October 26, 2017


>hard left

on what planet?

posted by marycatherine at 7:23 AM on October 26, 2017 [5 favorites]


The top quote in the article is someone who thinks someone like Wahlberg, who is racist once, is racist forever, which is deeply irresponsible to think. The article accuses him of benefitting from white privilege, but being white has nothing to do with any social advantage here. It's all hollywood, not race.

Hahaha, first of all, it's insulting and misleading to say imply that Wahlberg was merely racist once. He blinded an Asian dude while hurling racial slurs at him. He threw rocks at black kids (and the rocks did hit the kids) while yelling racial slurs at the black kids. That's at least two times right there. It's not irresponsible for the black kids who got rocks thrown at them while getting racial slurs thrown at them to grow up into adults who feel that Wahlberg is a current racist based on a PATTERN of being racist, not a single incident.

Similary, the article doesn't accuse him of benefiting from white privilege. The article says "a pardon would do little but indicate Wahlberg enjoys white privilege", and he hasn't gotten the pardon yet. You seem bothered that white privilege was even mentioned even in passing, but nothing that you've written really does anything to disprove the idea that "white males" get away with shit that non-white-non-males don't get away with. *shrug*
posted by 23skidoo at 7:34 AM on October 26, 2017 [1 favorite]


Mel Gibson was repeatedly caught making racist and sexist rants though, and as recently as last year he has blamed that incident on the "unscrupulous" cop who illegally recorded him as well as on the unethical media who were apparently on a for-profit witchhunt. He makes it seem like he just got drunk and violent and angry that one time but then he went to rehab and it's all in his past now. These are not the words of a remorseful alcoholic in recovery who just made one mistake.
posted by muddgirl at 7:41 AM on October 26, 2017 [2 favorites]


How has Mark Wahlberg suffered? He's steadily worked as an actor and producer for the past 20 years. He's worked with the most respected directors; he has multiple films coming out in the next year and likely is developing more. He works in dramatic films, action/popcorn movies, and comedy.

Gibson did suffer for a few years, but he's been quiet enough to rehab his image and will be starring in an Oscar-bait movie this year. He's fine.

In the wake of Harvey Weinstien, how can we so strongly villify Gibson's words and still leave space for a proportional reaction for Harvey?

I'm happy to consign all of them to the dustbin of ignominy. You know, we've got more actors than we need? We don't have to keep employing the assholes, and these guys aren't even especially talented.
posted by gladly at 7:41 AM on October 26, 2017 [6 favorites]


Wow mefi, when did you become so polarized? I've been a member of this site for over 10 years and only recently have returned.

My, you have been away for a while haven't you? To answer your implicit question, yes, this thread is more or less indicative of the attitude of the site nowadays. The "not all white men" kinds of responses will encounter fierce pushback for reasons that should be fairly obvious given the political climate and ongoing, nonstop rollout of racist, sexist, and general shitty behavior from white guys that is finally seeing light of day, but which has been going on since, well, pretty much always.

As a member of that group myself, I would suggest that instead of trying to find and point out exceptions in our membership, it might be better to think of what we as a group have made of ourselves and the world and maybe let those thoughts provide motivation to listen to all the complaints in their broader meaning rather than trying to haggle over individual detail.

It isn't that there isn't detail, but that there are ample reasons why spending energy worrying about attitudes about guys like Mel Gibson instead of those he's been repeatedly shown prejudice towards is just part of a larger societal pattern where the poor rich white dudes problems are always the most important thing to consider. Look first to those who really are suffering injustice before concerning oneself about those who've benefited from social privilege all along would be my suggestion. You of course my feel differently and act otherwise as is your right, but that kind of argument won't go over too well on Metafilter anymore I'm afraid.
posted by gusottertrout at 7:51 AM on October 26, 2017 [3 favorites]


There's a lot wrong there, but I'll just point out this:

There is a statute of limitations on everything, but not in the eyes of some readers here?


Statutes of limitations, especially for crimes of power and abuse, serve only to protect perpetrators. Plus, readers here are not a criminal court. We are people choosing whether or not to see a dumbass movie made by people who have done a lot of bad things.
posted by Emmy Rae at 8:19 AM on October 26, 2017 [2 favorites]


There are statutes in law, but not opinion. Opinions will fuck you over FOREVER.
posted by trif at 8:59 AM on October 26, 2017 [1 favorite]


Nope, apparently it should work exactly like the "heat" system in Grand Theft Auto. If celebrities don't do anything bad in public for a certain amount of time, I have to forget everything they did previously.
posted by muddgirl at 9:12 AM on October 26, 2017


There is a statute of limitations on everything, but not in the eyes of some readers here?


Legally, yes - there are statutes of limitation, which cover how long after a crime/offense occurs legal action can be initiated and remedy sought via legal means. And once a person had been convicted and served their sentence, things are complete from a legal perspective. But this is about the social consequences for what has been done, and in that respect everyone is free to do whatever they wish. I mean, that's just like my opinion, man, but it's my opinion and I get to have it. You get to have yours. But attempting to codify that response and tell people that their opinions are now wrong because X amount of time has passed...well, I don't see it working to well.

In the wake of Harvey Weinstein, how can we so strongly villify Gibson's words and still leave space for a proportional reaction for Harvey?

Why the fuck does it need to be proportional? It's all part and parcel of the same loathsome shit that is toxic white masculinity. Weinstein is a shitbag who victimized many; but does my response for a shitbag dudebro who raped one woman need to be proportionally less because he victimized only one person, or that no one involved was famous? It all needs to be shunned and called out and pointed at, because it keeps fucking happening and the answer to it isn't only thinking about it in legalistic terms or in some sense of "balance" or something. I'm mystified why my own personal reactions to Weinstien and Gibson have to be "proportional" to each other; I think they are both loathsome pieces of shit who have hurt people, shown no remorse for their actions, and I wouldn't mind if they both dropped off the face of the earth and I never heard from them again. To be frank, we have a pretty endless supply of poster boys for the face of white male entitlement, and their fifteen minutes are more than up.
posted by nubs at 9:14 AM on October 26, 2017 [4 favorites]


I've been away for a little while and have just come back to see this thread, which I believe is everything that is right and good about MeFi.

So, there we are.
posted by blurker at 9:39 AM on October 26, 2017 [2 favorites]


In case anyone was wondering -- not sarcasm.
posted by blurker at 9:40 AM on October 26, 2017


some people really want to pretend that hollywood isn't bad about race, don't they?

i'm really sorry white mark wahlberg and white mel gibson have lost on tens of millions. lemme pour out a bit for 'em and forget about the hundreds of non-white actors who haven't even made the first million in hollywood because they only get cast as terrorists, gangbangers, or computer nerds
posted by anem0ne at 12:26 PM on October 26, 2017 [7 favorites]


Wahlberg did the time, for a crime committed in the late 80s and the washington post link shows that even one of his direct victims does think he should get a pardon.

If we made a line of people whose lives would be made measurably better by receiving a pardon for a crime they committed years ago and did the time for (and who have a clean subsequent record), there would be thousands of people ahead of Wahlberg in that line. Maybe millions.
posted by straight at 1:10 PM on October 26, 2017 [3 favorites]


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