Several hours and 17 unrecognizable courses later...
October 24, 2017 5:56 PM   Subscribe

 
Pretty pallid praise:

Nearly every dish tasted good, in one way or another
posted by Dip Flash at 6:08 PM on October 24, 2017 [1 favorite]


See, I like this cause I’m a huge fan of totally designed and mediated spaces like theme parks or worlds fairs or pavilions and “Extremly goofy high concept art dining” would exactly be something I’d be down for just like I really want to go to the next gen theme parks with all the insane rfid tech.

Tonen again I’ve been to a dinner slash show with a strict dress code based around Clue so I may just be this audience.
posted by The Whelk at 6:23 PM on October 24, 2017 [14 favorites]


I'd love to try this place. Because food that's pushing the envelope is interesting and different and something that's so highly choreographed and arranged is an interesting, artful experience. That if you're lucky you come away not hungry is really an afterthought to this sort of meal.
posted by jacquilynne at 6:24 PM on October 24, 2017 [2 favorites]


"Vespertine" is one of my favorite words and I'm unhappy that a) this is some fancy restaurant and b) not a very late review of the Bjork album.

The "plates" look kind of interesting, though.
posted by curious nu at 6:25 PM on October 24, 2017 [19 favorites]


I like the sound of this. Can't really afford it, but then that's true of a lot of things.
posted by unliteral at 6:26 PM on October 24, 2017


Can't wait to read this. J. Gold just named it #1 on his 101 list.
posted by Room 641-A at 6:28 PM on October 24, 2017 [2 favorites]


I’m with curious nu. Still, an interesting FPP.
posted by lhauser at 6:31 PM on October 24, 2017


Also some of the descriptions “remove it from familiarity” remind me a lot of Futurist Cusine, which, say what you will about a fascist death cult obsessed with machines, they had some truly bizarre slash interesting ideas about food prep.
posted by The Whelk at 6:35 PM on October 24, 2017 [9 favorites]


I like this sound of this. Admitting you're presenting something utterly otherworldly, original, futuristic, "neither rooted in tradition nor culture" impresses me much more than appeals to artisanal tradition or authenticity. This review gave me the impression that this is how the people in The Culture novels might dine, somewhere on a distant Orbital.
posted by Jimbob at 6:40 PM on October 24, 2017 [4 favorites]


If you got two hundred and fifty bucks to drop on art food, more power to you. If you're gonna be the first against the wall when the revolution comes, you might as well enjoy your Bauhaus kelp jerky while you can...
posted by Sing Or Swim at 6:43 PM on October 24, 2017 [10 favorites]


Food of this standard and presentation will be universal once we implement full luxury communism, Sing or Swim.
posted by Jimbob at 6:45 PM on October 24, 2017 [6 favorites]


Surprisingly, the Culture is super into Fondue right now. Go figure.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 6:46 PM on October 24, 2017 [13 favorites]


I'd enjoy this kind of meal someday, if I ever got to try it, which chances are I won't. What I want to know is, when have you eaten? When are you full? It's never clear. Reviews of high-concept restaurants always remind me of the time when my dad visited Commander's Palace, the finest restaurant in New Orleans, then stopped on the way back for a Lucky Dog.
posted by Countess Elena at 6:52 PM on October 24, 2017 [2 favorites]


In my experience: With slightly less high concept tasting menus, the answer to 'when are you full?' is 'somewhere around the first dessert' because I often find them to be a bit excessive in terms of overall food consumption. The higher concept ones can be a bit light on actual food sometimes, so the dog on the way home becomes a more real possibility.
posted by jacquilynne at 7:07 PM on October 24, 2017 [3 favorites]


>the dog on the way home becomes a more real possibility.

Lord have mercy... for two and a half bills I'd hope they would slip you a complimentary hot dog as you leave. Maybe they could write "this is not a hot dog" on it in mustard, if they need it to be more... you know... Conceptual.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 7:24 PM on October 24, 2017 [4 favorites]


When are you full?

Hard to answer that question.

-Smaller portions could be an attempt to signify higher class (but maybe that's just a stereotype from TV shows and movies).
-It could be some of these restaurants intentionally aim for patrons to not feel hungry rather than feeling full (which might cause discomfort for some).
-It could be international influence (either the chef was trained outside the US, non-American clientele used to smaller portions, or both) because US portions are often larger than the rest of the world.
posted by FJT at 7:29 PM on October 24, 2017 [1 favorite]


Oh phew. This isn't about the Bjork album that I always feel a little guilty for not liking more.

Though, in a way, maybe it is.
posted by Artw at 7:39 PM on October 24, 2017 [6 favorites]


And yeah these food art experiences always get heavy around the dessert, cause dessert is always show off time even in bistros and such. That being said I’ve had a few vegetarian multi course Events that started to get real filling around the watermelon curry.

I’m reminded of spending time with some older , much richer folks who didn’t go in for these experimental novelty dinners but they always had four hour long menu gastronomiques and , while very filling, there was alaso an element of just giving them something to do all afternoon.

(This is fine btw, in the Culture we can all choose to spend our afternoons on 12 course menu experiments if we want)
posted by The Whelk at 7:46 PM on October 24, 2017 [4 favorites]


aa recent revelations have shown actual oligarchs have utterly shitty banal food taste.
posted by Artw at 7:54 PM on October 24, 2017 [7 favorites]


Yeah, this actually seems pretty cool, but in our current timeline, you just come off as Marie Antoinette if you have any part of something like this. Bring on the anarchist, underground, barter-swap-trade version of this and I’m there! Feel free to source ingredients from local dumpsters.
posted by latkes at 8:13 PM on October 24, 2017 [4 favorites]


How the hell does he manage to fund not only a restaurant with custom-made everything but a four-story building in LA?
posted by Foci for Analysis at 8:17 PM on October 24, 2017 [6 favorites]


you just come off as Marie Antoinette if you have any part of something like this.

I don't know, bottle service at nightclubs that cater to wall street types cost many thousands of dollars for the privilege of getting your own bottle of overpriced liquor delivered to your table (oh but with a sparkler) vs. 250$ bucks (which is a lot) for a catered one of kind *thing*?

It's like a lot of things where the world of the actual super rich who run everything is pretty hidden and if people knew what you could spend without thinking there they'd riot.

It's the difference between aspirational and deliberately obscure.
posted by The Whelk at 8:37 PM on October 24, 2017 [15 favorites]


I would like to experience this, but 1) the video kind of scared me, like my meal might be disrupted by zombies, and 2) Im always a little intimidated when I need instructions on how to eat something. It was nice to hear that "Chef" wanted people to approach the dishes however they felt like doing it.

in our current timeline, you just come off as Marie Antoinette if you have any part of something like this.

There is someone on MetaFilter saying this in every timeline.
posted by Room 641-A at 9:09 PM on October 24, 2017 [8 favorites]


Seriously, I have a friend with family in Oman who has stories about the stuff that her oil-rich cousins get up to on their regular trips to London that would make your hair stand on end. I’m talking a dozen people walking in to a bar and each buying their own bottle of $500 rose the way normal people would buy a round of beers.
posted by Itaxpica at 9:10 PM on October 24, 2017 [1 favorite]


(Sorry, hit post too soon. I was gonna add: compared to stuff like that, $250 for a crazy big, fancy Event Meal seems like a borderline reasonable once-in-a-blue-moon splurge)
posted by Itaxpica at 9:11 PM on October 24, 2017


There is someone on MetaFilter saying this in every timeline.

At some base level a lot of Mefi just really hates restaurants. See also hating kids and hating artists get paid for things. Threads on any of those subjects will be a chore.

Would the same mefites drop $250 on something else nonessential? I kind of suspect they would, but then they'd argue the hell out of how actually they really needed it. *shrug*
posted by Artw at 9:21 PM on October 24, 2017 [19 favorites]


Holy shit, I had breakfast across the street from that building last month! (The cafe, Destroyer, was another foodie-experience place, but I had a perfectly cromulent poached egg dusted, inexplicably, with sage that had been powdered like green tea.)

If I had known, I would have entertained (briefly) the idea of going there for dinner. However, it would have been my last meal if my wife had found out I went but didn't take her. I hope they manage to stay in business long enough for us to save up enough to have dinner for two. A few years ought to do it...
posted by spacewrench at 9:53 PM on October 24, 2017 [2 favorites]


You're paying the rent on that peculiar building with every bite which probably explains why the portions are so generous. This is what happens when the restaurant industry runs through and out of all the ethnic cuisines of the world as themes.
posted by Fupped Duck at 10:58 PM on October 24, 2017


I hear the pushback about my saying eating at this place is Marie Antoinette-like.. but... in my defense... I do sometimes eat at expensive restaurants - on fancy date night - or occaisionally buy expensive things. I try not to but ultimately our individual buying choices are a distraction from making systemic change in the form of regulation, taxation, etc. But I guess what I’m trying to express is, things are so terribly dire now, it feels awful to be part of expensive activities that are solely for the purpose of entertainment, and those who spend their time doing so feel highly suspect and also culpable, when we who can do those things literally have to walk past people living in garbage on the street to do so. Like, our moment of income inequality is ruining everything - at least for me - so even whimsy or weirdness or bold creativity, which I would in principle love and want more of in the world, is just sullied by the massive inequality we’re currently experiencing. Because it is in fact horrible that some people can spend the evening spending a lot of money on a bizare art-meal, and some are living on gift cards to McDonald’s and decaying leftovers. I don’t know - there has always been inequity, but we have a lot of it right now, so for me it makes everything bitter and horrible. But yeah, I do hear what folks are saying that this isn’t even actually that expensive in the scheme of things. But I also know that fun fact SSI pays about $880 a month and lots of homeless people live on SSI - if they even get that! But I know there are other ways to experience the world than mine. In fact, I would probably have better mental health if I didn’t see everything through that lens. In conclusion, I think this may not be a good night for me to look at pictures of weird food on the internet. Sorry!
posted by latkes at 11:20 PM on October 24, 2017 [3 favorites]


Been tracking this place since the first overly portentous announcements of it occurred and while I'm all for being out there and pushing - I dunno this place makes me, a guy who loves really great food and experiences twitchy in the same way overwrought art exhibits and gallery shows do.
posted by drewbage1847 at 11:23 PM on October 24, 2017


I kind of like the ambient music they play in the restaurant / linked to from the article. I would say it is closer to THIS WILL LULL YOU INTO SLEEP rather than THIS WILL DESTROY YOU.

I don't think I taste well enough for fine / experimental dining. But maybe I've only gone to mid-price joints where really nothing is that interesting ("modern american"), and I would enjoy the experience at a place like this.
posted by batter_my_heart at 11:36 PM on October 24, 2017


Disappointed that Vespertine doesn't mean "Of or appertaining to Italian scooters".
posted by Grangousier at 2:08 AM on October 25, 2017 [3 favorites]


The thing about the $250 is: the number of people who have to get paid to put together a dinner like that is considerable. Staffing ratios are high both in the front of house and in the kitchen. Plus suppliers, mortgage holders, designers, etc.

People aren't considered grotesque caricatures if they spend $200 to see Hamilton (where the top non-reseller ticket price is like $800 now), and I'd all but guarantee that the ratio of cast and crew to audience members at Hamilton is significantly lower than at a high end restaurant because the high end restaurant serves vastly fewer patrons in a day.

This is dining as a special event cultural experience, not the place you go for dinner because it's Tuesday. You're not paying for the ingredients.
posted by jacquilynne at 4:46 AM on October 25, 2017 [15 favorites]


I just keep thinking of how much of a pain in the ass it would be to work as a waiter in that place.
posted by Optamystic at 4:53 AM on October 25, 2017


After some sleep and reading the comments here:

I'd never considered these sorts of meals as art/event before, rather than something you do for sustenance, and that makes more sense to me. I'm pretty sure it's not my thing, but I can appreciate it as a thing.

I wonder if some of the blowback about the pricetag has to do with the fact that the medium is food. If you (to pull an example from upthread) can afford to go to Hamilton, and I can't, I'm not going to actually die from that lack. You have enough income to buy that art, that's cool. We start talking about food, though, and I don't know. There are a lot of mefites that struggle with food security, or have in the past.

I wonder what the discussion about one of these places would be like if the price was never mentioned in the article. Or would that be impossible? Even then, we'd know it was something more exclusive.
posted by curious nu at 5:48 AM on October 25, 2017 [3 favorites]


At some base level a lot of Mefi just really hates restaurants. See also hating kids and hating artists get paid for things. Threads on any of those subjects will be a chore.

I don't think it is so much that a ton of people here actually hate restaurants, but the combination of food and money brings out all kinds of intense feelings for some people. Look at the discussions of places like Olive Garden, for example, as well as previous discussions of highly expensive restaurants, which come with the kind of intense emotions that you usually get with people talking about family or politics. And because people here are coming from all kinds of backgrounds, you get crossing comments from, for example, people for whom going to Olive Garden is a huge luxury, and people who see it as cheap and tacky and down-market.

My guess is that even if we had an extremely egalitarian society, where no one is food insecure and wealth is spread more equitably, you would still have plenty of expensive restaurants like this simply because they meet a very real demand. For some, it's entertainment or a way to celebrate an occasion, for others, it's a way to wine and dine an important client.

Personally, this place doesn't appeal to me at all. I wouldn't spend my own money on this, and I'd only go there for a work dinner if we had a client who really, really wanted this kind of meal. (I'm not in LA, so this is all academic to me, anyway.) To me, the description sounded like they are trying too hard and the overall outcome is pretentious, sort of pseudo-fancy if you will, but obviously it appeals strongly to a lot of people and I am glad they are enjoying it and hope it is a success.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:41 AM on October 25, 2017 [1 favorite]


This is what bugs me:

Spending $200 on a once in a lifetime meal = gross
Spending $100-200/month on craft beer = money well spent
posted by Room 641-A at 7:09 AM on October 25, 2017 [8 favorites]


I wonder what the discussion about one of these places would be like if the price was never mentioned in the article. Or would that be impossible? Even then, we'd know it was something more exclusive.

But I think that is the point. Given the above comments about going home hungry/pick up a hotdog, this isn't about the food, but is about saying you can afford to blow money on food-but-not-food (ie exclusive, ie I'm higher on the social scale then you ie I want to be seen at this place ie I want to name-drop/brag that I've eaten here)
posted by k5.user at 7:17 AM on October 25, 2017


All other things aside, I feel pretty strongly that the words "turkey" and "emulsion" should never appear next to one another.
posted by mudpuppie at 9:37 AM on October 25, 2017 [7 favorites]


(ie exclusive, ie I'm higher on the social scale then you ie I want to be seen at this place ie I want to name-drop/brag that I've eaten here)

Are we allowed to just want to go to a place because we think it's cool and interesting? Because one of my most visceral memories is what it was like to sit in a restaurant and look at a spoon, see a cherry tomato, and then put it in my mouth and taste nothing but the most intense, rich, carrotness ever. It was a total mindfuck on par with what I imagine taking psychedelic drugs might be like. It was fun. I loved it. That single bite of food, taken as a portion of the whole meal cost, probably cost me about $8, and it was absolutely worth it.

I don't need to name drop, and I was eating in a private dining room in the kitchen, so I wasn't being seen by anyone other than the staff and my three friends who were with me (maybe not being seen is even more high status than being seen, I dunno, I'm not very high status). Am I bragging by talking about it? Or is there room for me to just be sharing a story about a really cool life experience I had?
posted by jacquilynne at 9:44 AM on October 25, 2017 [9 favorites]


For some reason I thought this was about Peter Watts.
posted by Omnomnom at 12:01 PM on October 25, 2017 [1 favorite]


The music, by the Texas ambient outfit This Will Destroy You, made me slow down and listen for small shifts and surprise harmonies. (Five recordings of violas, guitars, synthesizers, xylophones and music boxes, among other instruments, play in different parts of the restaurant, composed in relative keys so they mesh together when you hear more than one at a time.)

This is the most intriguing part to me.
posted by maggiemaggie at 12:33 PM on October 25, 2017 [2 favorites]


spacewrench: Holy shit, I had breakfast across the street from that building last month! (The cafe, Destroyer, was another foodie-experience place, but I had a perfectly cromulent poached egg dusted, inexplicably, with sage that had been powdered like green tea.)

Destroyer and Vespertine are by the same chef, Jordan Kahn. A chef friend had breakfast at Destroyer last week and dined at Vespertine that night. He traveled to LA specifically to go to Kahn's restaurants.

I haven't been to either of his current places, but I had dinner at his previous place Red Medicine a few years ago. There's one dish in particular that I still remember vividly, which I guess is the definition of "memorable".
posted by Surely This at 11:04 AM on October 27, 2017 [2 favorites]


Cool, I'm also excited to read a reviews of the new restaurants "Amnesiac" and "White Blood Cells"
posted by juice boo at 2:03 PM on October 27, 2017 [1 favorite]


Just as a point of clarification, based in the article and others I have read, $250 is the base price, you need to add tax and service on top of that so perhaps another $75 at least. I'm not sure what the drink prices are but in Jonathan Gold's review, he says a check is over $1,000 total for two people.
posted by cell divide at 2:10 PM on October 27, 2017


Jordan Kahn previously.

Ohhhhh. I missed the previously. It’s that guy. I was planning on going to Red Medicine and then decided I didn’t care how good the food might be, I’m not giving my money to those assholes.

And here’s a GQ interview with lots of pretty pictures.
posted by Room 641-A at 2:34 PM on October 27, 2017




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