this list is bullshit
November 17, 2017 8:17 PM Subscribe
The 50 best Superhero Movies Of All Times - Because this debate is already well-worn territory, we at The Ringer set out to develop a ranking that goes beyond personal opinions—to try to synthesize the overall goals and spirit of these films in order to identify the ideal superhero movies. In order to do that, we took into account four factors—Critical Success, Box Office Performance, Rewatchability, and Timelessness—and ran them through a fancy formula to come up with an overall score.
Ten years of sustained super-success at the box office—and now with critics—has created a new normal for the movie industry. Will it ever end? And should it?
‘Justice League’ Is a Failure Across the Board
Ten years of sustained super-success at the box office—and now with critics—has created a new normal for the movie industry. Will it ever end? And should it?
‘Justice League’ Is a Failure Across the Board
We took into account four factors—Critical Success, Box Office Performance, Rewatchability, and Timelessness—and ran them through a fancy formula to come up with an overall score.
A translation for all the non-statisticians out there is as follows:
We took into account four factors—Critical Success and Box Office Performance (which guarantee that broad popularity will be the main metric for quality, so our readers won't feel put out), as well as two other bullshit variables (which, being wildly subjective, allows the personal favorites from around the office to get bumped up on the list).
posted by belarius at 8:33 PM on November 17, 2017 [20 favorites]
A translation for all the non-statisticians out there is as follows:
We took into account four factors—Critical Success and Box Office Performance (which guarantee that broad popularity will be the main metric for quality, so our readers won't feel put out), as well as two other bullshit variables (which, being wildly subjective, allows the personal favorites from around the office to get bumped up on the list).
posted by belarius at 8:33 PM on November 17, 2017 [20 favorites]
Seems plausible. Would probably bump Homecoming, Ragnarok and Winter Soldier up the list.
posted by Artw at 8:36 PM on November 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Artw at 8:36 PM on November 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
Well this list is objectively and morally wrong, since it put Spider-Man 3 higher than Captain America and Thor and Ant-Man and Hellboy and Darkman and okay I'll give that it might have been better than Batman vs Superman and Suicide Squad but Captain AMERICA? Seriously?
posted by FritoKAL at 8:37 PM on November 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by FritoKAL at 8:37 PM on November 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
Oh, and Blade should be number one. That's just obvious.
posted by Artw at 8:38 PM on November 17, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by Artw at 8:38 PM on November 17, 2017 [18 favorites]
Winter Soldier and Ragnarok should be much higher. And where are Batman: Mask of the Phantasm or Batman (1966)? Their timelessness ranking would overshadow any box office shortcomings.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 8:43 PM on November 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 8:43 PM on November 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
5. Superman
4. When Harry Met Sally
3. Good Fellas
2. Thor 3
1. Short Circuit
posted by gwint at 8:48 PM on November 17, 2017 [28 favorites]
4. When Harry Met Sally
3. Good Fellas
2. Thor 3
1. Short Circuit
posted by gwint at 8:48 PM on November 17, 2017 [28 favorites]
Just for kicks, I took a look at the 132 feature films that have both the "superhero" and "based on comic book tags" on IMDB, sorted by user rating and ignoring films that came out this year (on the basis that they've not had enough time to accumulate a representative sample of ratings). I'm happy to report that Batman: Mask of the Phantasm comes in at 11, Adventures of Captain Marvel (from 1941!) comes in at 18, and American Splendor (!) comes in at 21. Other notable entries include, at 30, Spy Smasher, a 1942 film with a villain named The Mask, and, at 43 (ahem), The Mask.
posted by belarius at 8:48 PM on November 17, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by belarius at 8:48 PM on November 17, 2017 [6 favorites]
Justice League is actually very entertaining, and if Zack Snyder hadn't poisoned the well with his prior efforts I suspect it would be getting a gentler critical reception.
posted by sevenyearlurk at 8:49 PM on November 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by sevenyearlurk at 8:49 PM on November 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
Seems plausible. Would probably bump Homecoming, Ragnarok and Winter Soldier up the list. - posted by Artw
Oh, and I assume you like Dredd at 60, behind Sky High and X-Men: Apocalypse?
posted by the man of twists and turns at 8:49 PM on November 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
Oh, and I assume you like Dredd at 60, behind Sky High and X-Men: Apocalypse?
posted by the man of twists and turns at 8:49 PM on November 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
Not a Superhero. Number 1 in Action.
posted by Artw at 8:51 PM on November 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Artw at 8:51 PM on November 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
You wanna know who would win in a fight, all these movies put together or The Incredibles?
posted by Sing Or Swim at 9:01 PM on November 17, 2017 [21 favorites]
posted by Sing Or Swim at 9:01 PM on November 17, 2017 [21 favorites]
Ctrl + F = "Spawn" = Not found.
Welp. Fuck this list.
posted by Fizz at 9:04 PM on November 17, 2017 [6 favorites]
Welp. Fuck this list.
posted by Fizz at 9:04 PM on November 17, 2017 [6 favorites]
What? Just because he doesn't wear tights they dissed my man, Howard the Duck? Dude saved the world. Or something... (I don't know, TBH; I was twelve when I saw it, so seeing feathery, naked breasts in one scene was really all I remembered the next day, but still: how often do you see that, you know? Feathery, naked breasts! I mean, wu-ut!? Novelty alone should have landed it above Superman V. Batman.)
posted by saulgoodman at 9:13 PM on November 17, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by saulgoodman at 9:13 PM on November 17, 2017 [8 favorites]
From the Justice League trailer Spawn has better CG backgrounds than it.
posted by Artw at 9:19 PM on November 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Artw at 9:19 PM on November 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
I'm hoping that these kinds of lists are signalling the end of superhero movies. I feel like it is time to move on and run another genre into the ground for the next fifteen years or so.
posted by Literaryhero at 9:20 PM on November 17, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by Literaryhero at 9:20 PM on November 17, 2017 [15 favorites]
And yes, Literaryhero, superhero movies are the western of the current times. Sadly, few superhero movies are as interesting as even the worst of the westerns.
posted by hippybear at 9:22 PM on November 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 9:22 PM on November 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
I was twelve when I saw it, so seeing feathery, naked breasts in one scene was really all I remembered the next day, but still: how often do you see that, you know? Feathery, naked breasts! I mean, wu-ut!?
In which I learn that saulgoodman has never encountered furry porn esp the bird stuff, and also I begin to wonder if he might have furry tendencies.
posted by hippybear at 9:24 PM on November 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
In which I learn that saulgoodman has never encountered furry porn esp the bird stuff, and also I begin to wonder if he might have furry tendencies.
posted by hippybear at 9:24 PM on November 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
I just watched Logan for the 5th time tonight and cried a bunch like the other 4 times, so that's my number 1. But I'm sure a science-based list has its merits too.
posted by AndyP at 9:28 PM on November 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by AndyP at 9:28 PM on November 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
A list of superhero films that fails to include The Incredibles! Me, gobsmacked!
posted by SPrintF at 9:28 PM on November 17, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by SPrintF at 9:28 PM on November 17, 2017 [17 favorites]
Most lists like this are bullshit. Readers are going to read it to have their own personal opinions validated, and then they get engaged because they strongly disagree with some of your rankings. So long as the sorting is roughly correct, and you paginate it enough that you get a bunch of ad impressions, it's easy money.
posted by Merus at 9:33 PM on November 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Merus at 9:33 PM on November 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
Yeah, it's a dumb listicle even for dumb listicles, but the ancillary lists are pretty funny, including a ranking of the Chrises and this:
A Ranking of Superhero Villains
As voted on by The Ringer’s group of superhero experts.
2-175 All other villains
ONE Heath Ledger’s Joker from The Dark Knight
posted by Halloween Jack at 9:44 PM on November 17, 2017 [7 favorites]
A Ranking of Superhero Villains
As voted on by The Ringer’s group of superhero experts.
2-175 All other villains
ONE Heath Ledger’s Joker from The Dark Knight
posted by Halloween Jack at 9:44 PM on November 17, 2017 [7 favorites]
Someone needs to come up with a list of The 50 Worst Lists About The 50 Best Things.
That list will be bullshit.
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 9:50 PM on November 17, 2017 [11 favorites]
That list will be bullshit.
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 9:50 PM on November 17, 2017 [11 favorites]
A list of superhero films that fails to include The Incredibles! Me, gobsmacked!
To be fair, the title of the post is literally "this list is bullshit".
posted by Greg_Ace at 9:57 PM on November 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
To be fair, the title of the post is literally "this list is bullshit".
posted by Greg_Ace at 9:57 PM on November 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
I don't understand how could someone rank Age of Ultron or X-Men: The Last Stand ("the worst film of the original X-Men trilogy," as they say right there themselves) above Hellboy and The Crow.
Alternative list. Also including Batman '66, The Rocketeer, Chronicle, The Punisher '89, Mask of Phantasm, Unbreakable, and khm, Mystery Men. But yeah, number one is the same.
posted by sapagan at 10:02 PM on November 17, 2017 [8 favorites]
Alternative list. Also including Batman '66, The Rocketeer, Chronicle, The Punisher '89, Mask of Phantasm, Unbreakable, and khm, Mystery Men. But yeah, number one is the same.
posted by sapagan at 10:02 PM on November 17, 2017 [8 favorites]
Mask of the Phantasm > The Dark Knight.
And Superman: The Movie through soundtrack alone is number one (go ahead, hum the theme song of The Dark Knight... oh wait, there isn't one).
posted by linux at 10:26 PM on November 17, 2017 [6 favorites]
And Superman: The Movie through soundtrack alone is number one (go ahead, hum the theme song of The Dark Knight... oh wait, there isn't one).
posted by linux at 10:26 PM on November 17, 2017 [6 favorites]
Plus: Mask of the Phantasm theme song and score by Shirley Walker: fantastic.
posted by linux at 10:28 PM on November 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by linux at 10:28 PM on November 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
Hellboy was robbed.
But the greatest crime this list ever committed was forgetting that Buckaroo Banzai exists.
posted by bonehead at 10:31 PM on November 17, 2017 [24 favorites]
But the greatest crime this list ever committed was forgetting that Buckaroo Banzai exists.
posted by bonehead at 10:31 PM on November 17, 2017 [24 favorites]
IF Goldbloom in cowboy chaps is wrong, I'm not sure I want to be right.
posted by bonehead at 10:32 PM on November 17, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by bonehead at 10:32 PM on November 17, 2017 [12 favorites]
I feel like it is time to move on and run another genre into the ground for the next fifteen years or so.
I vote for movies with orangutans. Or did we already do that one?
posted by ctmf at 10:33 PM on November 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
I vote for movies with orangutans. Or did we already do that one?
posted by ctmf at 10:33 PM on November 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
Not a superhero movie, number 2 on whatever list Repo Man is number 1 on.
posted by Artw at 10:33 PM on November 17, 2017
posted by Artw at 10:33 PM on November 17, 2017
Doctor Strange is way way way too high and Watchmen and Darkman are way too low and props for remembering Flash Gordon.
The first Spiderman is my favorite, the first modern Super Hero film to really balance the awesomely cool powers with the soul crushing responsibility of having them.
posted by Beholder at 10:38 PM on November 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
The first Spiderman is my favorite, the first modern Super Hero film to really balance the awesomely cool powers with the soul crushing responsibility of having them.
posted by Beholder at 10:38 PM on November 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
No Meteor Man?
posted by panhopticon at 10:49 PM on November 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by panhopticon at 10:49 PM on November 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
3. Swamp Thing
2. Swamp Thing
1. Swamp Thing
0. Mystery Men
posted by benzenedream at 10:53 PM on November 17, 2017 [6 favorites]
2. Swamp Thing
1. Swamp Thing
0. Mystery Men
posted by benzenedream at 10:53 PM on November 17, 2017 [6 favorites]
I thought the Batman with Michael Keaton was pretty good but the Warren Beatty Dick Tracy thing was not.
posted by notyou at 11:00 PM on November 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by notyou at 11:00 PM on November 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
Hancock is way more rewatchable than a lot of the titles on that list. Ditto The Rocketeer.
In my opinion, the main problem with that list is how out of whack it is wrt to rewatchability (glaring omissions notwithstanding).
I mean Superman Returns is what I'd rewatch if I wanted to anger-sleep, which is not something I ever want.
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 11:13 PM on November 17, 2017 [5 favorites]
In my opinion, the main problem with that list is how out of whack it is wrt to rewatchability (glaring omissions notwithstanding).
I mean Superman Returns is what I'd rewatch if I wanted to anger-sleep, which is not something I ever want.
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 11:13 PM on November 17, 2017 [5 favorites]
I feel like it is time to move on and run another genre into the ground for the next fifteen years or so.
I vote for movies with orangutans. Or did we already do that one?
We did that one every which way but loose. It only took three movies before it was played out (not all in the same franchise).
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 11:23 PM on November 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
I vote for movies with orangutans. Or did we already do that one?
We did that one every which way but loose. It only took three movies before it was played out (not all in the same franchise).
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 11:23 PM on November 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
I am kind of surprised to see I have actually seen ten of the movies on this list. I think. It's real hard to remember which two of the five thousand Batman movies are the ones I’ve actually seen.
posted by egypturnash at 11:46 PM on November 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by egypturnash at 11:46 PM on November 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
I can't believe the Turkish version of Superman isn't on the list. (There is one, right?)
posted by goatdog at 12:11 AM on November 18, 2017
posted by goatdog at 12:11 AM on November 18, 2017
I dislike most superhero movies and the weird way discussion of them often focuses on sequel counts and record ticket sales and profits, as if the movies were fighting it out among themselves. Kapow! Kapow! But I've probably seen three quarters of the movies on the list, some more than once, because we have a small boy at home who eats superhero movies like popcorn. My favorite superhero movies are not on the list: The Iron Giant and My Neighbor Totoro.
posted by pracowity at 12:48 AM on November 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by pracowity at 12:48 AM on November 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
I am kind of surprised to see I have actually seen ten of the movies on this list
This moved me to do a quick count. It turns out I've wasted my life.
posted by biffa at 1:10 AM on November 18, 2017 [5 favorites]
This moved me to do a quick count. It turns out I've wasted my life.
posted by biffa at 1:10 AM on November 18, 2017 [5 favorites]
Man, no love for The Rocketeer.
posted by retrograde at 1:15 AM on November 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by retrograde at 1:15 AM on November 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
The Rocka-who?
posted by JARED!!! at 1:47 AM on November 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by JARED!!! at 1:47 AM on November 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
Deadpool, Hellboy and Logan should be way higher on that list.
posted by Pendragon at 2:08 AM on November 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Pendragon at 2:08 AM on November 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
props for remembering Flash Gordon
Not from me. I hated that I had paid money to see that. Personal rewatchability in negative numbers.
The whole Batman thing has gone on way too long.
Yes to The Incredibles and Iron Giant.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 3:12 AM on November 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
Not from me. I hated that I had paid money to see that. Personal rewatchability in negative numbers.
The whole Batman thing has gone on way too long.
Yes to The Incredibles and Iron Giant.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 3:12 AM on November 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
No one loves Big Hero 6? Mystery Men mentioned uplist, but not The Specials?
Agreeing that box office is a terrible metric for determining quality, especially when ou are also throwing in looking at Rotton Tomatoes to pretend you are being scientific. Also, this list gets negative points for layout.
posted by GenjiandProust at 3:19 AM on November 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
Agreeing that box office is a terrible metric for determining quality, especially when ou are also throwing in looking at Rotton Tomatoes to pretend you are being scientific. Also, this list gets negative points for layout.
posted by GenjiandProust at 3:19 AM on November 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
There should be a penalty inflicted on people who make these lists. Public flogging.
posted by From Bklyn at 3:26 AM on November 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by From Bklyn at 3:26 AM on November 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
I do love Big Hero 6. AND The Specials.
I am just pissed because there is NO WAY IN FUCKING HELL BATMAN FUCKING BATNIPPLES FOREVER SHOULD RANK HIGHER THAN DARKMAN OTHER THAN FUCKING LUNACY AND THE LIST COMPILERS BEING COMPLETE MORONS THAT OBVIOUSLY NEVER WANT ME TO VISIT THEIR SITE EVER AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ahem.
Sorry.
Also, seconding the flogging.
posted by Samizdata at 3:35 AM on November 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
I am just pissed because there is NO WAY IN FUCKING HELL BATMAN FUCKING BATNIPPLES FOREVER SHOULD RANK HIGHER THAN DARKMAN OTHER THAN FUCKING LUNACY AND THE LIST COMPILERS BEING COMPLETE MORONS THAT OBVIOUSLY NEVER WANT ME TO VISIT THEIR SITE EVER AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ahem.
Sorry.
Also, seconding the flogging.
posted by Samizdata at 3:35 AM on November 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
More proof they are idiots. They list Ant-Man fighting the Wasp.
GET IT RIGHT MORANS!
posted by Samizdata at 3:37 AM on November 18, 2017
GET IT RIGHT MORANS!
posted by Samizdata at 3:37 AM on November 18, 2017
Dredd: Number 1 in Action.
I'd put it number two behind Fury Road, but it's way, way up there.
I tend to think that these lists are actually designed to be as annoying as possible. If they put the 1966 Batman at number one it would be too obvious a troll. Personally I think the Avengers films haven't aged well at all (though I like the first one more now than I did when it came out. I actually saw Ultron on the same day as Fury Road, and the comparison did it no favours at all - I hate hate hate Joss Whedon banter, I just want to slap the characters and tell them to shut up), and I much prefer the smaller films (Ant Man, GotG, and the first Captain America is probably the best movie of that first run of Marvel films).
I'm also not convinced that the Nolan Batman films are as good or as lasting as all that. There's an air of what a teenage boy thinks is deep and meaningful and tragic about them.
Looking at the list, I'm struck that there's a much smaller selection of genuinely classic movies lurking in there - the Hellboys, Flash Gordon, Superman and although it's early days I do think Ragnarok belongs there, add others as you see fit - but ultimately it wouldn't be more than ten or fifteen movies.
posted by Grangousier at 3:49 AM on November 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
I'd put it number two behind Fury Road, but it's way, way up there.
I tend to think that these lists are actually designed to be as annoying as possible. If they put the 1966 Batman at number one it would be too obvious a troll. Personally I think the Avengers films haven't aged well at all (though I like the first one more now than I did when it came out. I actually saw Ultron on the same day as Fury Road, and the comparison did it no favours at all - I hate hate hate Joss Whedon banter, I just want to slap the characters and tell them to shut up), and I much prefer the smaller films (Ant Man, GotG, and the first Captain America is probably the best movie of that first run of Marvel films).
I'm also not convinced that the Nolan Batman films are as good or as lasting as all that. There's an air of what a teenage boy thinks is deep and meaningful and tragic about them.
Looking at the list, I'm struck that there's a much smaller selection of genuinely classic movies lurking in there - the Hellboys, Flash Gordon, Superman and although it's early days I do think Ragnarok belongs there, add others as you see fit - but ultimately it wouldn't be more than ten or fifteen movies.
posted by Grangousier at 3:49 AM on November 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
Blade (#55) is easily a top 20 entry.
posted by PenDevil at 4:21 AM on November 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by PenDevil at 4:21 AM on November 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
Artw: Oh, and Blade should be number one. That's just obvious.
YES! YES! My wife and I saw Blade in the theaters in 1998 and it was completely pivotal. As a kid, I started reading comics about 1983 or '84. I was subjected to things like the made-for-TV Hulk movies. I think I even saw the made-for-TV Captain America movie. Knight Rider. Street Hawk. Manimal. The Highwayman. Tim Burton's Batman. Those TV shows and films were how superheroes (or similar fantasy action genres) were presented on-screen and I always found them lacking (although Batman Returns is a pretty interesting, albeit messy, film).
Then came Blade. I still remember walking out of the theater... blown. away. Now a movie could begin to capture what I felt reading good comic books. Obviously, these lists and our opinions are the very nature of "subjective." But, I think the Blade film is too often overlooked as the beginning of the modern superhero era of filmmaking. Blade does two things that I think few Marvel or DC films have matched. First, it doesn't entirely take itself seriously, although there is considerable care taken in the details. So, it balances care and craft with a very tiny sliver of a sly wink. Second, the star is the most otherworldly of all the actors and actresses who have been cast as Marvel or DC heroes so far. Yes, Wesley Snipes has been in other movies - I had seen White Men Can't Jump with my dad when it came out. But Snipes so fully embodies the superhero/vampire hybrid in a way that few other actors can match, in my opinion. He's just. so. COOL! Blade is also the only comic movie I've seen more than twice.
I have not seen all the films on The Ringer list. I am glad it migrated over here - I have been reading The Ringer and enjoying the site, but I did not like this particular list.
So, my list does not include Flash Gordon or Buckaroo Banzai, because those are on my list of "greatest films of all time," which includes things like Akira Kurosawa's Dreams, Pee Wee's Big Adventure (perhaps the greatest film of all time) and Akira the anime. I love Big Hero 6, too, but I am thinking of this list as being primarily about movies stemming from comic books. I think the superhero comic movies rarely match the creative invention of comic books. Even if you just look at something fairly obscure like Michael Kaluta and Elaine Lee's comic Starstruck, which is deeply flawed and hard to read (or follow) in places, you can see how much manic, inventive energy from comics is left out of comic-based movies. But, anyway:
My list:
Merit Award - The Dark Knight Rises, only because Tom Hardy's Bane is hysterically funny. I saw this in the theater with a friend, and will probably never watch it again.
9) Blade II
8) The Incredible Hulk (yes, the Ed Norton one)
7) Spider-man
6) Guardians of the Galaxy
5) Batman Returns
4) Amazing Spider-man (yes, the Andrew Garfield one)
3) Dr. Strange
2) Ant-Man
1) Blade
I have high hopes for The Black Panther and Thor: Ragnarok. My wife saw Wonder Woman with a friend and I think she would rank it number one of all superhero movies. I trust her on that, so I plan to see it.
posted by Slothrop at 4:32 AM on November 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
YES! YES! My wife and I saw Blade in the theaters in 1998 and it was completely pivotal. As a kid, I started reading comics about 1983 or '84. I was subjected to things like the made-for-TV Hulk movies. I think I even saw the made-for-TV Captain America movie. Knight Rider. Street Hawk. Manimal. The Highwayman. Tim Burton's Batman. Those TV shows and films were how superheroes (or similar fantasy action genres) were presented on-screen and I always found them lacking (although Batman Returns is a pretty interesting, albeit messy, film).
Then came Blade. I still remember walking out of the theater... blown. away. Now a movie could begin to capture what I felt reading good comic books. Obviously, these lists and our opinions are the very nature of "subjective." But, I think the Blade film is too often overlooked as the beginning of the modern superhero era of filmmaking. Blade does two things that I think few Marvel or DC films have matched. First, it doesn't entirely take itself seriously, although there is considerable care taken in the details. So, it balances care and craft with a very tiny sliver of a sly wink. Second, the star is the most otherworldly of all the actors and actresses who have been cast as Marvel or DC heroes so far. Yes, Wesley Snipes has been in other movies - I had seen White Men Can't Jump with my dad when it came out. But Snipes so fully embodies the superhero/vampire hybrid in a way that few other actors can match, in my opinion. He's just. so. COOL! Blade is also the only comic movie I've seen more than twice.
I have not seen all the films on The Ringer list. I am glad it migrated over here - I have been reading The Ringer and enjoying the site, but I did not like this particular list.
So, my list does not include Flash Gordon or Buckaroo Banzai, because those are on my list of "greatest films of all time," which includes things like Akira Kurosawa's Dreams, Pee Wee's Big Adventure (perhaps the greatest film of all time) and Akira the anime. I love Big Hero 6, too, but I am thinking of this list as being primarily about movies stemming from comic books. I think the superhero comic movies rarely match the creative invention of comic books. Even if you just look at something fairly obscure like Michael Kaluta and Elaine Lee's comic Starstruck, which is deeply flawed and hard to read (or follow) in places, you can see how much manic, inventive energy from comics is left out of comic-based movies. But, anyway:
My list:
Merit Award - The Dark Knight Rises, only because Tom Hardy's Bane is hysterically funny. I saw this in the theater with a friend, and will probably never watch it again.
9) Blade II
8) The Incredible Hulk (yes, the Ed Norton one)
7) Spider-man
6) Guardians of the Galaxy
5) Batman Returns
4) Amazing Spider-man (yes, the Andrew Garfield one)
3) Dr. Strange
2) Ant-Man
1) Blade
I have high hopes for The Black Panther and Thor: Ragnarok. My wife saw Wonder Woman with a friend and I think she would rank it number one of all superhero movies. I trust her on that, so I plan to see it.
posted by Slothrop at 4:32 AM on November 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
"Of all time lists" are always ridiculously skewed towards the recent. Memories about shows just skew towards the recent, I was going to make a joke about The Shadow or The Phantom, but Mystery Men certainly should be on a top 50 list.
posted by sammyo at 4:41 AM on November 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by sammyo at 4:41 AM on November 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
I only see one movie titled "Batman" on the list. Is it the Tim Burton one or the Adam West one?
Haha, trick question. The whole list is invalid if they're not both on it.
Anyway, I enjoyed "Ghost Rider" more than many of the movies on this list, so the list's invalid anyway.
posted by ardgedee at 4:44 AM on November 18, 2017
Haha, trick question. The whole list is invalid if they're not both on it.
Anyway, I enjoyed "Ghost Rider" more than many of the movies on this list, so the list's invalid anyway.
posted by ardgedee at 4:44 AM on November 18, 2017
This list is bullshit. Where the fuck is Blade?
posted by kittens for breakfast at 5:06 AM on November 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by kittens for breakfast at 5:06 AM on November 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
Is there a special edition cut of The Dark Knight that doesn't have the three year long Boat Dilemma scene? And that's how that movie keeps getting ranked so high?
posted by robocop is bleeding at 5:21 AM on November 18, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by robocop is bleeding at 5:21 AM on November 18, 2017 [8 favorites]
I love Big Hero 6, too, but I am thinking of this list as being primarily about movies stemming from comic books.
Big Hero 6 was a comic book before it was a movie.
posted by SPrintF at 5:28 AM on November 18, 2017 [5 favorites]
Big Hero 6 was a comic book before it was a movie.
posted by SPrintF at 5:28 AM on November 18, 2017 [5 favorites]
I am so tired of comic book movies being the only kind of movies.
posted by vorpal bunny at 5:51 AM on November 18, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by vorpal bunny at 5:51 AM on November 18, 2017 [5 favorites]
X-Men First Class should be higher because of Kevin Bacon’s cartoonish supervillainry, and for the scene in which his cartoonish supervillain, dressed in a smoking jacket, serves drinks to Emma Frost from his bar located in a submarine (which also has a hall of mirrors). That’s how you supervillain.
posted by The Card Cheat at 6:03 AM on November 18, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by The Card Cheat at 6:03 AM on November 18, 2017 [9 favorites]
I love Big Hero 6, too, but I am thinking of this list as being primarily about movies stemming from comic books.
Then the list breaks it's own rules with Darkman, which was not a movie that originated from a comic book. The list is also missing LEGO Batman and The Adventures of Tintin.
But maybe the latter isn't included because it isn't a super hero comic book. This would also explain the absence of Popeye, Casper the Friendly Ghost, Peanuts, Garfield, and Richie Rich.
posted by FJT at 6:07 AM on November 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
Then the list breaks it's own rules with Darkman, which was not a movie that originated from a comic book. The list is also missing LEGO Batman and The Adventures of Tintin.
But maybe the latter isn't included because it isn't a super hero comic book. This would also explain the absence of Popeye, Casper the Friendly Ghost, Peanuts, Garfield, and Richie Rich.
posted by FJT at 6:07 AM on November 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
I didn't catch up to First Class until recently and thought that Kevin Bacon was easily the worst thing in a not very good movie. I had planned to watch Days of Future Past and Apocalypse afterward but didn't see any reason to continue.
posted by octothorpe at 6:11 AM on November 18, 2017
posted by octothorpe at 6:11 AM on November 18, 2017
The Iron Giant is the best Superman movie.
posted by 1970s Antihero at 6:16 AM on November 18, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by 1970s Antihero at 6:16 AM on November 18, 2017 [12 favorites]
Dang, I should never post before I've had my coffee. It says right on top it's a superhero movie list. But then I stand by my first point: Where's LEGO Batman? For me, it's easily one of the top 3 Batman films.
posted by FJT at 6:17 AM on November 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by FJT at 6:17 AM on November 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
Pumaman and Super Fuzz were robbed.
posted by delfin at 6:25 AM on November 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by delfin at 6:25 AM on November 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
These seem to be all live action* movies so Lego Batman and Mask of the Phantasm don't count.
*For whatever "live action" means in today's CGI/Green-screen/motion-captured cinema world.
posted by octothorpe at 6:34 AM on November 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
*For whatever "live action" means in today's CGI/Green-screen/motion-captured cinema world.
posted by octothorpe at 6:34 AM on November 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
(Psst: none of the Spiderman movies were good. Some were less-bad.)
posted by mhoye at 6:45 AM on November 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by mhoye at 6:45 AM on November 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
Alternative list. Also including Batman '66, The Rocketeer, Chronicle, The Punisher '89, Mask of Phantasm, Unbreakable, and khm, Mystery Men.
Also: Lego Batman, Mask Of The Phantasm and Batman Beyond: Return Of The Joker are all better than all the live-action Batman movies. Logan belongs in the top 5 (and so does Unbreakable.)
posted by mhoye at 6:50 AM on November 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
Also: Lego Batman, Mask Of The Phantasm and Batman Beyond: Return Of The Joker are all better than all the live-action Batman movies. Logan belongs in the top 5 (and so does Unbreakable.)
posted by mhoye at 6:50 AM on November 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
I completely approve of The Dark Knight at #1 but Batman v. Superman should not be anywhere in the vicinity of a best movie list. Not unless it's a list of the best worst movies ever. I'm still mad I paid to see that crap.
posted by fuse theorem at 7:10 AM on November 18, 2017
posted by fuse theorem at 7:10 AM on November 18, 2017
The list would give the appearance of being less bullshit if they didn't give the individual quotes at the start of each entry. The result is a gushing over Hellboy at slot #41 and then a lambasting of X-Men: The Last Stand six slots above Hellboy. Forget right and wrong choices, the format of this list is giving me a headache.
posted by AlonzoMosleyFBI at 7:15 AM on November 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by AlonzoMosleyFBI at 7:15 AM on November 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
I had a set of flights last year where I decided to catch up on cape movies and watched X-men Apocalypse, Avengers 2 and BvS and weirdly BvS came out on top, despite being the least coherent - basically there's always some mad something going on even if it makes no sense and seems to hate all it's characters. Still lightyears ahead of Man of Steel, which is just dull.
I did land and have to stop watching somewhere towards the end of the big Superman/Batman fight which no doubt improved the experience.
posted by Artw at 7:17 AM on November 18, 2017
I did land and have to stop watching somewhere towards the end of the big Superman/Batman fight which no doubt improved the experience.
posted by Artw at 7:17 AM on November 18, 2017
Timelessness? They used timelessness as a measure and didn't just have zeroes for all of them?
Oh, I see, their definition of timelessness is whether or not the movie could be improved if it was remade. That is appropriate given that is pretty much how Hollywood decides to finance anything nowadays. Will the audience remember any of it other than the title past the end of the week? If not, then we'll just reboot it two years from now. If so, then a sequel next year. Good to see the movie industry and its audiences really challenge themselves like that. It's not at all an ill omen for popular culture to be so reliant on continually recycled nostalgia products.
It's impressive that we've found a way to transmit all the ephemera from our childhood on to the younger generation, but in even larger scale, since what we gained from it all certainly led to a healthy culture. I'm particularly pleased to see young women getting a chance to share more in the values of violent power fantasies and macho individualism Hollywood and the superhero comic industry helped inculcate. I'm sure nothing bad could possibly come of that.
I don't begrudge people enjoying what they like, I've watched most of these movies too, but the trend is disturbing for what suggests about the culture. If these movies do prove to be somehow "timeless" it'd be a radical shift in how the culture views art and merit in a way I can't see as beneficial given how much of the mental landscape it cedes to corporate property.
posted by gusottertrout at 7:35 AM on November 18, 2017 [6 favorites]
Oh, I see, their definition of timelessness is whether or not the movie could be improved if it was remade. That is appropriate given that is pretty much how Hollywood decides to finance anything nowadays. Will the audience remember any of it other than the title past the end of the week? If not, then we'll just reboot it two years from now. If so, then a sequel next year. Good to see the movie industry and its audiences really challenge themselves like that. It's not at all an ill omen for popular culture to be so reliant on continually recycled nostalgia products.
It's impressive that we've found a way to transmit all the ephemera from our childhood on to the younger generation, but in even larger scale, since what we gained from it all certainly led to a healthy culture. I'm particularly pleased to see young women getting a chance to share more in the values of violent power fantasies and macho individualism Hollywood and the superhero comic industry helped inculcate. I'm sure nothing bad could possibly come of that.
I don't begrudge people enjoying what they like, I've watched most of these movies too, but the trend is disturbing for what suggests about the culture. If these movies do prove to be somehow "timeless" it'd be a radical shift in how the culture views art and merit in a way I can't see as beneficial given how much of the mental landscape it cedes to corporate property.
posted by gusottertrout at 7:35 AM on November 18, 2017 [6 favorites]
Truthfully, this is a list of 50 Reasons We Are Smarter Than You And You Are Doing It Wrong.
Really rather hacked off there's no contact email since their "superhero experts" can't even tell the difference between the Wasp (a superheroine) and the Yellowjacket (a male villain).
List doesn't count unless you are willing to be called on your bullshit.
posted by Samizdata at 7:58 AM on November 18, 2017
Really rather hacked off there's no contact email since their "superhero experts" can't even tell the difference between the Wasp (a superheroine) and the Yellowjacket (a male villain).
List doesn't count unless you are willing to be called on your bullshit.
posted by Samizdata at 7:58 AM on November 18, 2017
TO THE CHAIR: Illinois moves that, hereafter, “this list is bullshit” must be the default title of any MetaFilter FPP that presents as its main subject a list, a listicle, or any otherwise ranked preferences from Elsewhere the Internet.
Any seconds?
posted by tzikeh at 8:36 AM on November 18, 2017 [18 favorites]
Any seconds?
posted by tzikeh at 8:36 AM on November 18, 2017 [18 favorites]
The absence of The Incredibles and other animated flicks seems to indicate that they’ve limited their list to live-action super-hero movies. My biggest quibble with it is that they rank Spider-Man higher than Spider-Man 2 and that makes no sense to me.
My own top 20 (no patience for going to 50) would go like this:
1. Spider-Man 2
2. Superman the Movie
3. The Avengers
4. Spider-Man: Homecoming
5. Captain America: The Winter Soldier
6. Thor: Ragnarok
7. The Dark Knight
8. Iron-Man
9. Wonder Woman
10. X2: X-Men United
11. Logan
12. Guardians of the Galaxy
13. Deadpool
14. Spider-Man
15. Doctor Strange
16. Ant-Man
17. Batman Begins
18. Superman II
19. Captain America: Civil War
20. X-Men
Yeah. I think Spider-Man 2 is the best overall super-hero so far. The whole elevated train fight sequence alone is one of the best action sequences I’ve ever seen in any movie. And it benefits a great deal from not being another origin story. There are specific things about the Spider-Man character that Homecoming gets more right, but Spider-Man 2 is the better movie. The Dark Knight is NOT the be-all-end-all of super-hero movies everyone makes it out to be for many reasons, but it’s still pretty good.
posted by wabbittwax at 8:39 AM on November 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
My own top 20 (no patience for going to 50) would go like this:
1. Spider-Man 2
2. Superman the Movie
3. The Avengers
4. Spider-Man: Homecoming
5. Captain America: The Winter Soldier
6. Thor: Ragnarok
7. The Dark Knight
8. Iron-Man
9. Wonder Woman
10. X2: X-Men United
11. Logan
12. Guardians of the Galaxy
13. Deadpool
14. Spider-Man
15. Doctor Strange
16. Ant-Man
17. Batman Begins
18. Superman II
19. Captain America: Civil War
20. X-Men
Yeah. I think Spider-Man 2 is the best overall super-hero so far. The whole elevated train fight sequence alone is one of the best action sequences I’ve ever seen in any movie. And it benefits a great deal from not being another origin story. There are specific things about the Spider-Man character that Homecoming gets more right, but Spider-Man 2 is the better movie. The Dark Knight is NOT the be-all-end-all of super-hero movies everyone makes it out to be for many reasons, but it’s still pretty good.
posted by wabbittwax at 8:39 AM on November 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
p.s. if anyone is looking to spend five bucks on a sock today, “Judge Wilson” is available.
posted by tzikeh at 8:40 AM on November 18, 2017
posted by tzikeh at 8:40 AM on November 18, 2017
The Dark Knight is NOT the be-all-end-all of super-hero movies everyone makes it out to be for many reasons, but it’s still pretty good.
I found The Dark Knight to be an incoherent mess. An incoherent mess with a brilliant performance in it, but still... a narrative mess. I'm willing to go along with the idea that the Joker has no real objective for any of his actions because he loves the chaos, but everyone else should have objectives that make sense. I walked out of that movie incredibly disappointed and didn't see another DC movie until Wonder Woman (which I also have some narrative quibbles with, but at least made sense).
I really don't understand why it's constantly hailed as being the end all and be all of super hero movies. Particularly when The Incredibles exists.
posted by JustKeepSwimming at 8:52 AM on November 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
I found The Dark Knight to be an incoherent mess. An incoherent mess with a brilliant performance in it, but still... a narrative mess. I'm willing to go along with the idea that the Joker has no real objective for any of his actions because he loves the chaos, but everyone else should have objectives that make sense. I walked out of that movie incredibly disappointed and didn't see another DC movie until Wonder Woman (which I also have some narrative quibbles with, but at least made sense).
I really don't understand why it's constantly hailed as being the end all and be all of super hero movies. Particularly when The Incredibles exists.
posted by JustKeepSwimming at 8:52 AM on November 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
It says in the intro that it’s limited to live action. But it is a crap list. The most confusing thing is the quotes from staffers as you go towards number one. Even though they are meant to be better movies as you go, the comments are like
Great
Breakthrough
Sucks
Sucks
Not bad
Great
Sucks
It makes no sense. Also they rag on the third x men movie then later state a rule about third movies always being better or something. Come on guys, edit your shit!
posted by freecellwizard at 9:32 AM on November 18, 2017
Great
Breakthrough
Sucks
Sucks
Not bad
Great
Sucks
It makes no sense. Also they rag on the third x men movie then later state a rule about third movies always being better or something. Come on guys, edit your shit!
posted by freecellwizard at 9:32 AM on November 18, 2017
The Iron Giant is the best Superman movie.
probably, to which I would counter that Buckaroo Banzai is truly the only superhero movie that will survive into the 22nd century with even a gram of credibility. The future is laughing at us.
posted by philip-random at 10:21 AM on November 18, 2017 [6 favorites]
probably, to which I would counter that Buckaroo Banzai is truly the only superhero movie that will survive into the 22nd century with even a gram of credibility. The future is laughing at us.
posted by philip-random at 10:21 AM on November 18, 2017 [6 favorites]
...or Bond or Bourne or any action hero who needs suspension of disbelief.
Genre needs conventions to define itself. Garish costumes and super villains beyond human norms seem as good a set of signposts as any.
posted by bonehead at 10:24 AM on November 18, 2017
Genre needs conventions to define itself. Garish costumes and super villains beyond human norms seem as good a set of signposts as any.
posted by bonehead at 10:24 AM on November 18, 2017
It says in the intro that it’s limited to live action.
But in this era of CGI characters, it's a distinction without a difference. Would recent superhero films even exist at all without animation?
posted by SPrintF at 11:28 AM on November 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
But in this era of CGI characters, it's a distinction without a difference. Would recent superhero films even exist at all without animation?
posted by SPrintF at 11:28 AM on November 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
How is Indiana Jones not a superhero?
Indiana Jones is a hero. A handsome archaeologist with a whip and a hat.
posted by pracowity at 11:47 AM on November 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
Indiana Jones is a hero. A handsome archaeologist with a whip and a hat.
posted by pracowity at 11:47 AM on November 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
Some motherfuckers always trying to ice skate uphill.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 1:04 PM on November 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 1:04 PM on November 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
No Mystery Men. The list is garbage - well, they did remember The Crow, so points for that, I guess.
posted by Slap*Happy at 1:29 PM on November 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Slap*Happy at 1:29 PM on November 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
As for the Nolan Batman movies, I think Batman Begins is the best. Probably because it's the tightest one, unlike the sequels, which are overly-stuffed with jarring side plots that make you feel you're suddenly watching a different movie. Batman Begins is much more linear, and, for my money, entertaining. Plus the sequels are just simply more sloppily put together, with wonky acting, editing, etc. I do like the sequels, but my like of them is more piecemeal.
posted by zardoz at 1:40 PM on November 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by zardoz at 1:40 PM on November 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
Wow so they don't even remember Steel.
posted by Apocryphon at 1:51 PM on November 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Apocryphon at 1:51 PM on November 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
Oh, I see, their definition of timelessness is whether or not the movie could be improved if it was remade. That is appropriate given that is pretty much how Hollywood decides to finance anything nowadays
To be clear, they agree to fund when concluding the answer is "no", yes?
posted by Jon Mitchell at 1:59 PM on November 18, 2017
To be clear, they agree to fund when concluding the answer is "no", yes?
posted by Jon Mitchell at 1:59 PM on November 18, 2017
TO THE CHAIR: Illinois moves that, hereafter, “this list is bullshit” must be the default title of any MetaFilter FPP that presents as its main subject a list, a listicle, or any otherwise ranked preferences from Elsewhere the Internet.
Any seconds?
Seconded.
posted by Samizdata at 2:14 PM on November 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
Any seconds?
Seconded.
posted by Samizdata at 2:14 PM on November 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
probably, to which I would counter that Buckaroo Banzai yt is truly the only superhero movie that will survive into the 22nd century with even a gram of credibility. The future is laughing at us.
[starts whistling a catchy yet strangely high pitched tune]
Yes, I do do this sometimes in real life too.
posted by Samizdata at 2:16 PM on November 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
[starts whistling a catchy yet strangely high pitched tune]
Yes, I do do this sometimes in real life too.
posted by Samizdata at 2:16 PM on November 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
No Mystery Men. The list is garbage - well, they did remember The Crow, so points for that, I guess.
Is the recognition of The Crow enough to restrain your boundless rage?
posted by Samizdata at 2:16 PM on November 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
Is the recognition of The Crow enough to restrain your boundless rage?
posted by Samizdata at 2:16 PM on November 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
I found the contact method and sent them an editorial tip, which consisted of the following -
"In your recent "Top 50 Superhero Movies of All Time" article, you start out promising a substantial less arbitrary rating system, but going on to elaborate that 50% of the rating is completely subjective, with those subjective ratings being performed by people that can't even tell the difference between a female superheroine, the Wasp, and a male supervillian called Yellowjacket. Such oversights therefore render the entire analysis questionable at best, and sadly highlights the fact that your "experts" are, in the best of all possible worlds, dilletantes. Perhaps a little more humility next time, and a little less pretension?"
posted by Samizdata at 2:24 PM on November 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
"In your recent "Top 50 Superhero Movies of All Time" article, you start out promising a substantial less arbitrary rating system, but going on to elaborate that 50% of the rating is completely subjective, with those subjective ratings being performed by people that can't even tell the difference between a female superheroine, the Wasp, and a male supervillian called Yellowjacket. Such oversights therefore render the entire analysis questionable at best, and sadly highlights the fact that your "experts" are, in the best of all possible worlds, dilletantes. Perhaps a little more humility next time, and a little less pretension?"
posted by Samizdata at 2:24 PM on November 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
I don’t know why this list was published now when Black Panther won’t be released until next February.
posted by epj at 4:04 PM on November 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by epj at 4:04 PM on November 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
the format of this list is giving me a headache
Oh, I dunno. It's the great leveler, maybe. But BS just the same.
posted by Rash at 4:39 PM on November 18, 2017
Oh, I dunno. It's the great leveler, maybe. But BS just the same.
posted by Rash at 4:39 PM on November 18, 2017
Lt. Ellen Ripley is (to me) one of the greatest superheros to ever grace the big screen. I am also raising my kids to think likewise
posted by Redhush at 6:28 PM on November 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Redhush at 6:28 PM on November 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
This is probably as good a place as any to drop the new Incredibles 2 teaser trailer.
posted by octothorpe at 7:35 PM on November 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 7:35 PM on November 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
The tricky thing about Ellen Ridley, and I guess Sarah Connor also, is the first movies are R but you kind of need them to get to the more kid friendly follow up movies?
posted by Artw at 8:38 PM on November 18, 2017
posted by Artw at 8:38 PM on November 18, 2017
The tricky thing about Ellen Ridley, and I guess Sarah Connor also, is the first movies are R but you kind of need them to get to the more kid friendly follow up movies?
IIRC, years ago someone commented that "The Terminator" and "Alien" were horror movies, while T2 and AlienS were action movies.
posted by mikelieman at 9:38 PM on November 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
IIRC, years ago someone commented that "The Terminator" and "Alien" were horror movies, while T2 and AlienS were action movies.
posted by mikelieman at 9:38 PM on November 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
The Crow is not a superhero movie. The Crow is a ghost story.
Fight me.
posted by Faintdreams at 4:53 AM on November 19, 2017 [2 favorites]
Fight me.
posted by Faintdreams at 4:53 AM on November 19, 2017 [2 favorites]
Superhero ghost, tho.
posted by Slap*Happy at 6:33 AM on November 19, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Slap*Happy at 6:33 AM on November 19, 2017 [3 favorites]
I dunno if the Crow is that great outside of its very specific 90s milleau TBH. Suspect I'd die of embarrassment if I watched it again today.
posted by Artw at 6:35 AM on November 19, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 6:35 AM on November 19, 2017 [1 favorite]
Unbreakable is a better superhero film than most of these but isn't a comic franchise.
posted by cmfletcher at 11:48 AM on November 19, 2017
posted by cmfletcher at 11:48 AM on November 19, 2017
This list is baffling to me.
posted by brundlefly at 6:37 PM on November 19, 2017
posted by brundlefly at 6:37 PM on November 19, 2017
I dunno if the Crow is that great outside of its very specific 90s milleau TBH.
I refute this with a single quote from the film, uttered by the villain:
Oh, my, yes.
posted by Slap*Happy at 6:56 PM on November 19, 2017 [3 favorites]
I refute this with a single quote from the film, uttered by the villain:
"Bang! Bang! Caw! Fuck! I'm dead!"So, OK, you've got basically Goth Jesus, and he's still failing at this whole justice beyond the grave thing... and then he becomes Goth Devil.
Oh, my, yes.
posted by Slap*Happy at 6:56 PM on November 19, 2017 [3 favorites]
Unbreakable is a better superhero film than most of these but isn't a comic franchise.
Seen Split yet? Maybe not a COMICS franchise, but a film franchise, maybe...
posted by Samizdata at 7:45 PM on November 19, 2017
Seen Split yet? Maybe not a COMICS franchise, but a film franchise, maybe...
posted by Samizdata at 7:45 PM on November 19, 2017
I am against the M. Night Shyamalan Deciding to be a Superhero Movie in the Title Cards at the End Cinematic Universe.
posted by Artw at 7:49 PM on November 19, 2017
posted by Artw at 7:49 PM on November 19, 2017
I am against the M. Night Shyamalan Deciding to be a Superhero Movie in the Title Cards at the End Cinematic Universe.
He drove me off a while back, but, granted, he earned so much kudoxite with me with Unbreakable, he still has some ore left.
posted by Samizdata at 7:58 PM on November 19, 2017
He drove me off a while back, but, granted, he earned so much kudoxite with me with Unbreakable, he still has some ore left.
posted by Samizdata at 7:58 PM on November 19, 2017
OTOH, The Ringer still hasn't either responded or edited the article, so I think we can cross them off the list for academic integrity. Maybe they need some peer review before clicking Publish?
posted by Samizdata at 8:00 PM on November 19, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Samizdata at 8:00 PM on November 19, 2017 [1 favorite]
For contrast, Paste did a 100 list that contains a much broader definition of the term "superhero" to include pretty much any adaptation of a mainstream comic (Turtles, LXG, et al. are included).
posted by middleclasstool at 6:01 AM on November 20, 2017
posted by middleclasstool at 6:01 AM on November 20, 2017
I should stress that this list is also bullshit and wrong, evidenced by the fact that "The Lego Batman Movie" is NOT the highest ranked Batman movie and is two steps below "The Amazing Spider-Man".
posted by middleclasstool at 6:06 AM on November 20, 2017
posted by middleclasstool at 6:06 AM on November 20, 2017
Thanks to everyone who recommended Mystery Men. My seven-year-old is watching it for the second time already, and he has just built a Lego machine that apparently has the powers of all the heroes: it shoots a bowling ball (which can go back in time and change the future?), it has a fart blaster, it can throw silverware a la the Blue Raja, etc.
posted by pracowity at 9:29 AM on November 20, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by pracowity at 9:29 AM on November 20, 2017 [5 favorites]
Shyamalan made one of the better superhero films of the past 30 years in Unbreakable and one of the absolute worst in Avatar. Just part of his mystery, I guess.
Best is still probably The Incredibles to my mind. Dark Knight, while having some nice performances, is way too long and kind of a mess from a story/plot perspective. I'd honestly put the new Spider-man: Homecoming or Wonder Woman ahead of it. Both are much better movies.
Heck, I'd rather watch Megamind instead most of the time. To the point where I commissioned Megamind's slippers from my crafty niece, but maybe that's just me.
posted by bonehead at 10:27 AM on November 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
Best is still probably The Incredibles to my mind. Dark Knight, while having some nice performances, is way too long and kind of a mess from a story/plot perspective. I'd honestly put the new Spider-man: Homecoming or Wonder Woman ahead of it. Both are much better movies.
Heck, I'd rather watch Megamind instead most of the time. To the point where I commissioned Megamind's slippers from my crafty niece, but maybe that's just me.
posted by bonehead at 10:27 AM on November 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
The Megamind Heel-Face turn is one of the more satisfying examples of the trope - the outcast villain who never really wanted to win becoming the unselfish hero who must not lose, wow. Some great plot and character development, and with Jonah Hill and David Cross and Will Farrell chewing every available bit of scenery. The visuals were great, imparting immensity of scale and the intensity of violent forces in play, all without becoming terrifying... it is a kids's movie.
You know what? I'd put it ahead of anything in the current DCU apart from Wonder Woman and The Dark Knight, and even then, it's a dogfight.
posted by Slap*Happy at 4:48 PM on November 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
You know what? I'd put it ahead of anything in the current DCU apart from Wonder Woman and The Dark Knight, and even then, it's a dogfight.
posted by Slap*Happy at 4:48 PM on November 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
Hellboy II: The Golden Army was on HBO this evening, and I cannot fathom how I'd forgotten that Barry Manilow's "Can't Smile Without You" drives a portion of the plot.
It's already way too low on this list, but that fact should have been good for at least a couple of places by itself.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 11:31 PM on November 20, 2017
It's already way too low on this list, but that fact should have been good for at least a couple of places by itself.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 11:31 PM on November 20, 2017
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This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice
Suicide Squad
Kick-Ass
Watchmen
Darkman
Hulk
The Wolverine
Flash Gordon
The Incredible Hulk
Hellboy (bullshit!)
The Crow
Batman Forever
Thor: The Dark World
Man Of Steel
Hellboy 2: The Golden Army (double bullshit!)
X-Men The Last Stand
Thor
The Amazing Spider-Man
Superman Returns
Captain America: The First Avenger
Ant-Man
Spider Man 3 (are you f-in kidding me?)
X-Men
X-Men: First Class
Doctor Strange
Batman Returns (horseshit!)
Iron Man 2
Batman Begins
X-Men: Days Of Future Past
Superman II
X2: X-Men United
Avengers: Age of Ultron (no)
Logan
Captain Amerca: The Winter Soldier
Batman
Guardians of the Galaxy Vol 2.
Iron Man 3
Deadpool
The Dark Knight Rises
Spider-Man: Homecoming
Guardians of the Galaxy
Thor: Ragnarok
Captain America: Civil War
Iron Man (also no)
Spider-Man 2
Wonder Woman
Spider-Man
Superman
The Avengers (hasn't aged well)
The Dark Knight -
How did The Dark Knight influence the superhero movies that followed? The Dark Knight showed that there was a huge audience for a serious superhero film that explored the shades of gray between good and evil. Unfortunately, many of the films since have gambled away that interest by mistaking dreariness for seriousness. Also, way too many superhero movies feel like the third act of The Dark Knight and not the first.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 8:24 PM on November 17, 2017 [6 favorites]