Carbon Copies

November 24, 2017 6:59 AM

The Exciting History of Carbon Paper dates back to the beginning of the 19th century. Today, we still refer to the technology, even though we have not used it in a long time.

Carbon-impregnated paper was invented simultaneously by Ralph Wedgwood in the UK (as part of a machine to help blind people to write), and Pellegrino Turri in Italy, as part of an early typewriter that would enable his blind lover to write letters.

Wedgwood's invention became useful for copying letters, although it was not until the invention of the typewriter [pdf] that carbon paper became widely popular. It was also with the decline of the mechanical typewriter that its use dwindled, although there are still some applications.

posted by carter (52 comments total)

Just, thank the tech gods that we don't need to fuss with thin crinkly annoying layers of this stuff any more!
posted by sammyo at 7:33 AM on November 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

"...we have not used it in a long time."

I remember my mother using it to make multiple copies as she transcribed her shorthand notes (of medical reports for an orthopaedic surgeon) on a battered old typewriter at the kitchen table.

Now I sit at my own kitchen table, learning to draw, and have found using an old stash of carbon paper invaluable in tracing and then redrawing on the faint carbon copy outlines.
posted by humph at 7:41 AM on November 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

Carbon paper is still commercially available today (1995). However, its use has declined significantly in the last 20 years, despite the proliferation of copying in the modern office over the same period. Perhaps it will continue to be used until the "paperless office" becomes a reality, or perhaps it will always be ideal for some applications.

And now, 22 years later? I can't remember the last time I saw carbon paper, though NCR is still ubiquitous.
posted by OverlappingElvis at 8:18 AM on November 24, 2017

In the UK, the "Personal Child Health Record" still comes with a sheet of carbon paper to facilitate filling out of its in-triplicate paperwork.

And judging by this, the NHS has some other uses for the stuff as well.
posted by Luddite at 8:25 AM on November 24, 2017

It looks like it's still being made by one manufacturer in the UK: see also this BBC clip from a few years back.
posted by misteraitch at 8:27 AM on November 24, 2017

And now, 22 years later? I can't remember the last time I saw carbon paper,

I can. The thing I associate it with now comes up in the final paragraph of the final link of the post: tattoo studios use a lot of it, so they can give the customers a preview of the size and placement before the permanent inkage starts.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 8:31 AM on November 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

My family used to own a dry-cleaners and we made use of carbon paper quite often. The tickets we would use to keep track of items that are being dropped off and cleaned and then picked up all had carbon paper involved. Usually triplicate paper-work. One tag for the customer, one for the cleaning crew behind the scenes and then one for pick up.

Our family also used to run a hotel and we used carbon paper for the forms when a hotel guest registered and checked in. A lot of that has gone away with computer check-in systems being more prevalent but I recall when everything was hand-written.

And we would still go back to the carbon paper / triplicate style forms whenever there was a power outage and didn't have access to computers. Every hotel I've ever worked at, still has the hand swipe credit card machines with carbon paper documents on hand for when this happens.
posted by Fizz at 8:31 AM on November 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

I work for an auction house in the UK. We use carbon paper for the hand-written receipts we give people when they drop things off to be auctioned. Yes now, in 2017.
posted by shibori at 8:43 AM on November 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

I don't know how millennials can blithely use a cc: line without wanting to know what the hell that stands for. But they just go ahead.
posted by stupidsexyFlanders at 8:57 AM on November 24, 2017 [23 favorites]

We used this in the military all the time to have copies of the signatures on leave forms:
posted by corb at 9:05 AM on November 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

cc: line without wanting to know what the hell that stands for.

I grew up with the Internet, remember dial-up and everything. I'm embarrassed to admit that it took me a long time, quite a bit into my adulthood before I realized what this line was for and what it stood for.
posted by Fizz at 9:08 AM on November 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

Many who've been in the Canadian military remembers using field message pads (or, to some, field message books, or FMB's) for writing all sorts of things in the field (lists, orders, etc.). They all had carbon paper in the back to make copies where multiples were needed. No idea if they're still used, but I see them for sale at a lot of mil/outdoor supply places.
posted by MILNEWSca at 9:45 AM on November 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

I still have a full pack of carbon paper here in the supplies drawer at work. I cannot identify when the last time it was used, and it is possible it was moved across country when the office relocated 15 years ago.

However, I am old enough to remember when carbon paper was used, and reused. It was an task to use the paper until the copies were just good enough, and then discard and replace with a fresh sheet. Those copies were then sharp for a while, until the inevitable decline in quality happened again.
posted by Midnight Skulker at 9:48 AM on November 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

field message pads
Complete with tactical message writing gloves!
posted by thelonius at 9:54 AM on November 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

Complete with tactical message writing gloves!
Sadly, I never got them during my time in ...
posted by MILNEWSca at 9:57 AM on November 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

Complete with tactical message writing gloves!

You'll want to talk to a fellow, named Brynjolf, he's located in the marketplace in Riften. Once you do this, this will open up the Thieve's Guild questline and....
posted by Fizz at 10:06 AM on November 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

I don't know how millennials can blithely use a cc: line without wanting to know what the hell that stands for. But they just go ahead.

They also blithely accept the floppy disk "save" icon
posted by thelonius at 10:19 AM on November 24, 2017 [10 favorites]

I still use it for sewing, to transfer some markings from paper pattern to fabric.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 10:30 AM on November 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

I had a tour of a business forms printing factory once (mid 1980s) where they made their own carbon paper, down in a sort of dungeon the interior of which was completely black from the years of carbon dust. I'm not sure how anybody survived working there.
posted by beagle at 10:39 AM on November 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

Those blithe motherfuckers.
posted by saturday_morning at 10:41 AM on November 24, 2017 [15 favorites]

I’m a little jealous. Wouldn’t we all benefit from being a little more blithe?
posted by aubilenon at 10:59 AM on November 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

They also blithely accept the floppy disk "save" icon

At a conference a few years ago, a Google Maps icon designer argued that the floppy disk for saving, the telephone for a contacts app, and similar icons had become detached from their historical meanings. He was interviewing kids and found that they understood the icons perfectly well as abstract symbols but had no particular idea they might refer to something specific. One child referred to saving a file with the disk icon as “putting a file into this garage.” 💾
posted by migurski at 11:13 AM on November 24, 2017 [26 favorites]

I still use it for sewing, to transfer some markings from paper pattern to fabric.

Me too, as recently as last week. I also have used it for drawing and drafting projects.
posted by oneirodynia at 11:15 AM on November 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

Are we sure this isn’t a double?

I’ll show myself out.
posted by Frayed Knot at 11:17 AM on November 24, 2017 [40 favorites]

Today, we still refer to the technology, even though we have not used it in a long time.

I use carbon paper everyday working with medical records. Lots of long term care facilities that don’t have the money or competence to shift to electronic still get paper medical records printed on multi-copy carbon paper, and send back their updates on the carbons.
posted by Caduceus at 11:22 AM on November 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

we still use carbon (or "carbonless") paper for our students' lab notebooks. They hand in the carbon copies as part of their assesement....
posted by lalochezia at 11:46 AM on November 24, 2017

All of us millennials know that CC: stands for Courtesy Copy.
posted by good in a vacuum at 12:05 PM on November 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

I’m a little jealous. Wouldn’t we all benefit from being a little more blithe?

Try a nice cocktail with blithe spirits, this holiday season.
posted by thelonius at 12:34 PM on November 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

My chequebooks have some kind of carbon paper-type thing so that I get a copy of every cheque I write. I don't think there is an actual black sheet of carbon paper but somehow it transfers my writing to the copy underneath.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 1:01 PM on November 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

I don't know how millennials can blithely use a cc: line without wanting to know what the hell that stands for. But they just go ahead.

Probably brazenly ordering cappuccino without thinking of monks, speaking of assassination without being reminded of hashish, and looking for clues without thinking of Theseus and the Minotaur.

Lucky bastards.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 1:06 PM on November 24, 2017 [9 favorites]

Don't lick your fingers:

"Health and environmental concerns.
Until the 1970s, when the use of polychlorinated biphenyls (PCBs) was banned due to health and environmental concerns, PCBs were used as a transfer agent in carbonless copy paper. ... In Japan, carbonless copy paper is still treated as a PCB-contaminated waste."

It's improper to post an unobfuscated link here, but you know what to do.
en.wikipedia.org slash wiki slash Carbonless_copy_paper
posted by hank at 1:08 PM on November 24, 2017

I'm curious how many of the people who claim to still use carbon paper are using "carbonless paper" instead. (A phrase right up there with horseless carriages and mirrorless cameras on the list of silly language inventions.) I've got a drawer of carbonless PO forms at work that are required for large purchases. But, I haven't seen actual carbon paper since I was a kid in the 80s pawing through school stockrooms full of material older than me. Are the sheets of the stuff that makes your fingers black and doesn't require special chemically-impregnated paper actually in use today, or is the distinction lost to time?

I was so happy when a teacher let me take home an old drum mimeograph machine the school was getting rid of. Then I found out what it cost to buy materials for it and left it to rust in the back yard, unused.
posted by eotvos at 1:41 PM on November 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

I use carbon paper at least once a week!
posted by blaneyphoto at 2:08 PM on November 24, 2017

Plenty of courthouses still use carbon paper for making multiple copies of handwritten orders.
posted by crush at 3:11 PM on November 24, 2017

I currently buy receipt books at Staples that come with two sheets of carbon paper. I remember way back how exciting it was when one-use carbon paper arrived: a very thin piece of carbon paper attached to a piece of very thin white paper, job to align with the original sheet, type, remove all carbons, and voila, copies.
posted by MovableBookLady at 3:24 PM on November 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

Ok here's my free million dollar idea for the day: artisanal carbon paper copybooks made with ethically sourced real carbon. Sell them to hipsters and hipster-owned businesses. I guarantee they would sell like hotcakes in Portland.
posted by OverlappingElvis at 3:34 PM on November 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

The stuff I use is black on one side and gray on the other, and leaves black marks if you handle it too hard. It's carbon paper.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 4:09 PM on November 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

Come back to carbon paper... please?
posted by Pazzovizza at 5:30 PM on November 24, 2017

Probably brazenly ordering cappuccino without thinking of monks

I sometimes think of monkeys, is that good enough?
posted by traveler_ at 5:51 PM on November 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

Art is another field where carbon paper is still common. Light projection is a technology that's eating into the carbon paper sales, but it's never going to completely supplant it.
posted by tychotesla at 6:47 PM on November 24, 2017

When I was driving professionally, my logbook came with 3 sheets of carbon paper to get me through the month. We needed to send one daily log to the office, the other stayed with us. If you lost a sheet, it could be a rough last week of logging. If you look at a well stocked truck stop, you'll likely find small packs of carbon paper for that reason. At least you could 4 years ago.
posted by piedmont at 8:26 PM on November 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

Don't lick your fingers:

"Health and environmental concerns.
Until the 1970s, when the use of polychlorinated biphenyls (PCBs) was banned due to health and environmental concerns, PCBs were used as a transfer agent in carbonless copy paper. ... In Japan, carbonless copy paper is still treated as a PCB-contaminated waste."

Newer carbonless papers don't have PCBs but they apparently often do contain BPA (as, incidentally, do thermally printed receipts).
posted by atoxyl at 10:38 PM on November 24, 2017

So tangential question, what were those purple sheets school teachers used to roll out in the 80s? Man, nothing like the smell of that stuff to get you going. We used to rub the still warm paper on our faces.
posted by Literaryhero at 4:25 AM on November 25, 2017 [1 favorite]

Literaryhero, that would be be either the Spirit Duplicator also known as the Ditto Machine, or the Mimeograph. Both produced copies that had distinct fragrances when fresh.

For what a Ditto machine looked like in action, my go-to video clip is this scene from the 1984 Judd Hirsch comedy, Teachers.
posted by radwolf76 at 4:46 AM on November 25, 2017 [4 favorites]

Oh, yeah, I remember being a nerdy little teacher's pet and feeling so proud that they trusted me to crank the mimeograph machine like a spit dog.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 5:50 AM on November 25, 2017 [5 favorites]

My dentist uses articulating paper to test my occlusion. It has carbon on both sides and is in tiny pieces so it wouldn’t be very useful for typewriters.
posted by larrybob at 6:55 AM on November 25, 2017 [1 favorite]

I think it was the ditto machine, but they both look pretty similar, so I can't be sure. Although I am pretty sure my teacher called the copies dittos, so that might be a clue. What a strong memory those elementary school smells being back. Phew.
posted by Literaryhero at 4:01 AM on November 27, 2017

piedmont: "When I was driving professionally, my logbook came with 3 sheets of carbon paper to get me through the month. We needed to send one daily log to the office, the other stayed with us. If you lost a sheet, it could be a rough last week of logging. If you look at a well stocked truck stop, you'll likely find small packs of carbon paper for that reason. At least you could 4 years ago."

Electronic logbooks are going to be legally required shortly, so these may be the last days for that.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:31 PM on November 27, 2017

radwolf76: "For what a Ditto machine looked like in action, my go-to video clip is this scene yt from the 1984 Judd Hirsch comedy, Teachers."

There's also a scene in Fast Times at Ridgemont High where Mr. Hand's students sniff the freshly mimeographed papers.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:32 PM on November 27, 2017 [1 favorite]

There's also a scene in Fast Times at Ridgemont High where Mr. Hand's students sniff the freshly mimeographed papers.

Except for Spicoli, he was already buzzed to the max.
posted by e1c at 8:44 AM on November 28, 2017

Carbon paper was good stuff - It got me started on an early life of forgery. When I was in 4th grade (and really, several other grades), it was pretty often that one of us would have to take some horrible grade home to get it signed by a parent to prove that they actually did see the horrible grade. At the same time, and somewhat inexplicably, you could get extra credit on some other things by having them signed by your parents - regardless of grade.

I had recently discovered a box of this magic paper in my estranged fathers abandoned home office - a room that was left jarringly intact, so of course provided no end of things to get into as a ten year old. I had also recently received some horrible grade on something. And at the same time, by coincidence, I also had one of the extra credit thingies with a good grade on it. So, of course, I carefully lined up the assignment with the good grade with a slice of the carbon paper and the assignment with the bad grade, knowing my mom would sign it without looking too deeply into it - which she did, unwittingly transferring a perfect copy of her signature to the failing grade paper.

Later on, in the same office that I was treating as a lab, I very carefully went over the transfer with an ink pen, making sure to match the stroke patterns as best as I could. Once the ink was down and looked good, I gently erased the carbon with a "nonmarking eraser" i found in the lab. And at the time, I thought this worked spectacularly.

Cue one phone call to my parents on the evening I turned it in, where I was accused of making a "alarmingly good" forgery. They demanded I tell them how I did it, but made the mistake of telling me how they knew it was a forgery. The signature was in a perfect line, but hovering JUST ABOVE the signature line - just enough to look really strange, since it was otherwise perfect.

I somehow got in absolutely no trouble for this... and the carbon paper remained where it was. And as far as my mom ever knew, that was the only time I ever did it.

I'm still rather good at lining things up perfectly on sheets to this day.
posted by MysticMCJ at 1:58 PM on November 28, 2017 [3 favorites]

I'm curious how many of the people who claim to still use carbon paper are using "carbonless paper" instead.

It's carbon paper. You can buy it on Amazon, along with graphite paper and colored wax transfer paper. None of them look like carbonless paper, which is white or light colored and could never be confused with carbon paper or graphite paper, which are black.
posted by oneirodynia at 11:48 PM on November 30, 2017 [1 favorite]