Not exactly Socrates
November 29, 2017 1:05 PM Subscribe
War criminal dies after apparently drinking poison in court (Warning, the link contains autoplay video of the act.)
Former general of the Croatian Defence Forces, Slobodan Praljak, 72, today lost his appeal of his 20-year sentence for war crimes and crimes against humanity by the International Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia. General Praljak was the officer in command over the notorious Dretelj prison camp. After the judge announced that his conviction was affirmed, General Praljak rose to his feet and drank from a small bottle containing poison. He was pronounced dead later the same day.
Former general of the Croatian Defence Forces, Slobodan Praljak, 72, today lost his appeal of his 20-year sentence for war crimes and crimes against humanity by the International Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia. General Praljak was the officer in command over the notorious Dretelj prison camp. After the judge announced that his conviction was affirmed, General Praljak rose to his feet and drank from a small bottle containing poison. He was pronounced dead later the same day.
Fucker should rot in jail but the ground will do.
posted by Artw at 1:13 PM on November 29, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by Artw at 1:13 PM on November 29, 2017 [9 favorites]
I'm not saying I hope this turns into a trend but
posted by maxsparber at 1:21 PM on November 29, 2017 [26 favorites]
posted by maxsparber at 1:21 PM on November 29, 2017 [26 favorites]
Fucker can bring poison into International court but I can't bring my Starbucks on to the plane? Fuck that.
posted by Keith Talent at 1:26 PM on November 29, 2017 [116 favorites]
posted by Keith Talent at 1:26 PM on November 29, 2017 [116 favorites]
They weren't gonna give him the death penalty but if it's what he wanted I won't miss him.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 1:29 PM on November 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by scaryblackdeath at 1:29 PM on November 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
☠
posted by Fizz at 1:33 PM on November 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Fizz at 1:33 PM on November 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
Keith Talent: "Fucker can bring poison into International court but I can't bring my Starbucks on to the plane? Fuck that."
Seriously. Don't they, you know, search prisoners?
posted by Chrysostom at 1:37 PM on November 29, 2017 [9 favorites]
Seriously. Don't they, you know, search prisoners?
posted by Chrysostom at 1:37 PM on November 29, 2017 [9 favorites]
In 2017 even Santa Claus is a crazy evil asshat.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 1:38 PM on November 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by ActingTheGoat at 1:38 PM on November 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
I hope this coward's death brings some peace to anyone who suffered because of him.
posted by palomar at 1:40 PM on November 29, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by palomar at 1:40 PM on November 29, 2017 [8 favorites]
Any information or speculation on what the vial contained? Quick and efficacious, whatever it was. Can only hope it was painful as well...
posted by jim in austin at 1:46 PM on November 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by jim in austin at 1:46 PM on November 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
Is prison life at the Hague so bad as all that? Seems like a semi-decent retirement. Comfy beds, games of foosball with your fellow war criminals, lots of time to catch up on some reading. Not suicide-level imprisonment like an American SuperMax.
posted by dis_integration at 1:47 PM on November 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by dis_integration at 1:47 PM on November 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
I'll allow it.
posted by Capt. Renault at 1:08 PM on November 29 [12 favorites +] [!]
He'll swallow it.
posted by chavenet at 1:50 PM on November 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Capt. Renault at 1:08 PM on November 29 [12 favorites +] [!]
He'll swallow it.
posted by chavenet at 1:50 PM on November 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
They've already had two suicides in holding cells... don't they have officers of the court or something to like intervene?
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 1:51 PM on November 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 1:51 PM on November 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
I've read far too many stories about faking one's own death in order to escape a sentence. I need to hear the autopsy results and learn exactly what was in that vial.
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:52 PM on November 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:52 PM on November 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
(I don't mean the previous cases... but like he's not exactly quick about his theatrical act. What if he'd had a gun or something? and wanted to take it out on the rest of the court)
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 1:53 PM on November 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 1:53 PM on November 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
I was listening to the audio of the proceedings this morning and what perplexed me is that after he makes his little announcement ("Slobodan Praljak is not a war criminal" etc) and drinks the poison, there is a brief moment of commotion and then his lawyers tell the court "Our client has taken poison" but I didn't hear him telling his lawyers that in the interim. It seems odd that he would have told them beforehand, though.
posted by Aubergine at 1:56 PM on November 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Aubergine at 1:56 PM on November 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
He almost certainly got the poison with the connivance of his guards and warders. It's not surprising that they might have inconsistent beliefs or opinions, but I'm still surprised when officials promote their private agendas in ways that are utterly incompatible with their duty.
posted by Joe in Australia at 2:01 PM on November 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Joe in Australia at 2:01 PM on November 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
Does he realize he is just following in the footsteps of Heinrich Himmler and Joseph Goebbels?
posted by Bee'sWing at 2:02 PM on November 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Bee'sWing at 2:02 PM on November 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
Yes. Yes he realizes.
posted by zenon at 2:04 PM on November 29, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by zenon at 2:04 PM on November 29, 2017 [13 favorites]
A lot of people are confused on the whole "Nazis are a bad example" thing these days.
posted by Artw at 2:04 PM on November 29, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by Artw at 2:04 PM on November 29, 2017 [16 favorites]
The Guardian and Observer writer Ed Vulliamy, who covered the war in the former Yugoslavia, recalls being cross-examined by the Bosnian-Croat war criminal.
posted by adamvasco at 2:04 PM on November 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by adamvasco at 2:04 PM on November 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
and drinks the poison, there is a brief moment of commotion and then his lawyers tell the court "Our client has taken poison" but I didn't hear him telling his lawyers that in the interim. It seems odd that he would have told them beforehand, though.
Hmm...the New York Times articles indicates that Slobodan Praljak announces that he took the poison himself right after, so maybe that's when they heard about it and they just repeated it again to the judge.
Hmm...the New York Times articles indicates that Slobodan Praljak announces that he took the poison himself right after, so maybe that's when they heard about it and they just repeated it again to the judge.
“Slobodan Praljak is not a war criminal,” he declared slowly and deliberately in Croatian, just moments after judges upheld Mr. Praljak’s 20-year jail sentence for war crimes and crimes against humanity. “I reject your judgment with contempt.”posted by Fizz at 2:08 PM on November 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
In a scene befitting the theater director Mr. Praljak had been before the Bosnian war erupted, he pulled out a small container, raised it to his lips and ostentatiously swallowed the contents. He then said, “I have taken poison.”
good, and may many others of his ilk be thus inspired.
posted by poffin boffin at 2:09 PM on November 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by poffin boffin at 2:09 PM on November 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
It's the Nazi example that makes this so embarrassing for the Court in the first place, though. They had to know defendants will try this shit. It's been done before. They had to freakin' know.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 2:11 PM on November 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by scaryblackdeath at 2:11 PM on November 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
I need to hear the autopsy results and learn exactly what was in that vial.
This is such a peculiar scenario that I am entirely with you on this. I am not at all convinced that this wasn't an escape.
posted by halation at 2:17 PM on November 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
This is such a peculiar scenario that I am entirely with you on this. I am not at all convinced that this wasn't an escape.
posted by halation at 2:17 PM on November 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
Am in favour of the Pacific Rim pulse checking trchnique.
posted by Artw at 2:24 PM on November 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Artw at 2:24 PM on November 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
I am not at all convinced that this wasn't an escape.
It's not like they put him in a body bag in the courtroom and straight to a deserted morgue. He was taken to a hospital and died there. Medical science has progressed a bit since The Count of Monte Cristo.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 2:25 PM on November 29, 2017 [37 favorites]
It's not like they put him in a body bag in the courtroom and straight to a deserted morgue. He was taken to a hospital and died there. Medical science has progressed a bit since The Count of Monte Cristo.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 2:25 PM on November 29, 2017 [37 favorites]
An escape ? How would that work ?
I think what's being imagined here is that he takes the fake poison that makes him appear dead. Gets zipped up in a body bag, unzips it from the inside, steals some clothes(?) and walks out of the morgue and has his comrades whisk him away or something? I mean, it is 2017, so why not?
posted by dis_integration at 2:25 PM on November 29, 2017 [8 favorites]
I think what's being imagined here is that he takes the fake poison that makes him appear dead. Gets zipped up in a body bag, unzips it from the inside, steals some clothes(?) and walks out of the morgue and has his comrades whisk him away or something? I mean, it is 2017, so why not?
posted by dis_integration at 2:25 PM on November 29, 2017 [8 favorites]
Given the other suicides, I can't help but think that it's not that there's no searching going on, it's that one or more people at various points in the process decided that this was okay with them and let it happen, which I find more troubling than that he actually did it. I understand not mourning him, but the idea that people might be choosing not to do their jobs in order to let it happen--I would not first assume that anybody acting that way was doing so out of hating him. I don't really suspect a plot to escape; I just think he got more mercy than he could have expected from the legal system by being able to do this.
posted by Sequence at 2:26 PM on November 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Sequence at 2:26 PM on November 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
It's not like they put him in a body bag in the courtroom and straight to a deserted morgue.
Of course not. But, in the confusion, somewhere between courtroom / ambulance / hospital / morgue, with some willing participants... It's not likely, but it's not impossible.
If security is lax enough that poison is getting smuggled in, security is obviously a problem.
posted by halation at 2:28 PM on November 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
Of course not. But, in the confusion, somewhere between courtroom / ambulance / hospital / morgue, with some willing participants... It's not likely, but it's not impossible.
If security is lax enough that poison is getting smuggled in, security is obviously a problem.
posted by halation at 2:28 PM on November 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
I fail to understand how anyone can be happy about this. He took the poison to avoid punishment. He made a choice and circumstances allowed his wish to be granted. The choice should have been denied to him.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:37 PM on November 29, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:37 PM on November 29, 2017 [17 favorites]
As far as I'm concerned, Nazis and war criminals can exercises their suicide option all day long, every day, for the rest of the year, and it will only leave the world a better place. I'll happily pay out the lengths of rope.
posted by BigLankyBastard at 2:40 PM on November 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by BigLankyBastard at 2:40 PM on November 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
Everyone should have the right to kill themselves. Especially this guy.
I find the whole idea that he "cheated justice" or "avoided punishment" ridiculous. No one is worse off for this guy being dead, except perhaps whoever loved him.
posted by andrewpcone at 2:46 PM on November 29, 2017 [7 favorites]
I find the whole idea that he "cheated justice" or "avoided punishment" ridiculous. No one is worse off for this guy being dead, except perhaps whoever loved him.
posted by andrewpcone at 2:46 PM on November 29, 2017 [7 favorites]
I fail to understand how anyone can be happy about this. He took the poison to avoid punishment. He made a choice and circumstances allowed his wish to be granted. The choice should have been denied to him.
I mean, yeah, in the sense that you shouldn't give prisoners what they want and this exposes security flaws. But i still think that it's ok to feel alright that someone threw themselves off the cliff we were going to throw them over anyway. I like that the best case scenario for war criminals is: "if we catch you you better hope you have friends that will help you kill yourself."
posted by East14thTaco at 2:48 PM on November 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
I mean, yeah, in the sense that you shouldn't give prisoners what they want and this exposes security flaws. But i still think that it's ok to feel alright that someone threw themselves off the cliff we were going to throw them over anyway. I like that the best case scenario for war criminals is: "if we catch you you better hope you have friends that will help you kill yourself."
posted by East14thTaco at 2:48 PM on November 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
To do it properly, we should have seen his tongue move, heard a click, and then watched as Captain America leapt over a table, tried to fish something out of his mouth, and then looked sad as he pulled out a false tooth and a puff of smoke escaped.
"Cyanide capsule," Cap would have said.
That's how you do it.
posted by maxsparber at 2:50 PM on November 29, 2017 [11 favorites]
"Cyanide capsule," Cap would have said.
That's how you do it.
posted by maxsparber at 2:50 PM on November 29, 2017 [11 favorites]
But i still think that it's ok to feel alright that someone threw themselves off the cliff we were going to throw them over anyway.
That's not really what happened, though. Instead of slowly and quietly ending his life in the ignominy of jail as an example of what happens when you violate the law and act monstrously, as an example of the system having ultimately worked, he gets to deliver a soliloquy and go out in a blaze of pompous self-righteousness and media coverage.
posted by halation at 2:52 PM on November 29, 2017 [11 favorites]
That's not really what happened, though. Instead of slowly and quietly ending his life in the ignominy of jail as an example of what happens when you violate the law and act monstrously, as an example of the system having ultimately worked, he gets to deliver a soliloquy and go out in a blaze of pompous self-righteousness and media coverage.
posted by halation at 2:52 PM on November 29, 2017 [11 favorites]
Seriously. Don't they, you know, search prisoners?
They also bribe guards, or at least, don't pay them enough for them to care.
What if he'd had a gun or something?
It would be just like Denny Crane on Boston Legal, except about the hilarious hijinks part.
posted by Alexandra Kitty at 2:53 PM on November 29, 2017
They also bribe guards, or at least, don't pay them enough for them to care.
What if he'd had a gun or something?
It would be just like Denny Crane on Boston Legal, except about the hilarious hijinks part.
posted by Alexandra Kitty at 2:53 PM on November 29, 2017
he gets to deliver a soliloquy and go out in a blaze of pompous self-righteousness and media coverage
Really, who gives a shit? It's not like he delivered an inspiring apologia for ethnic cleansing. It's not like the media is making him a martyr, except maybe some far right crazytown sites.
The press coverage makes him look like exactly what he is: a has-been genocidaire who got caught. Everything is fine.
posted by andrewpcone at 2:56 PM on November 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
Really, who gives a shit? It's not like he delivered an inspiring apologia for ethnic cleansing. It's not like the media is making him a martyr, except maybe some far right crazytown sites.
The press coverage makes him look like exactly what he is: a has-been genocidaire who got caught. Everything is fine.
posted by andrewpcone at 2:56 PM on November 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
Despite his grandstanding, it seems like the rest of the world gets the last word now.
posted by OHenryPacey at 3:07 PM on November 29, 2017
posted by OHenryPacey at 3:07 PM on November 29, 2017
No one is worse off for this guy being dead, except perhaps whoever loved him.
It's entirely possible some of his surviving victims share my preference for him being required to rot in jail over his clear desire for suicide. He also might have been able to contribute to academic research which could reduce future tragedies. He might eventually have acknowledged his guilt and apologized to his victims. His dramatic death could turn him into an iconic martyr for some disgusting political cause. Finally, people in the courtroom may be permanently scarred that they saw a man commit suicide in front of them. Just some of many reasons that prisoner suicide is something to be avoided.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:08 PM on November 29, 2017 [14 favorites]
It's entirely possible some of his surviving victims share my preference for him being required to rot in jail over his clear desire for suicide. He also might have been able to contribute to academic research which could reduce future tragedies. He might eventually have acknowledged his guilt and apologized to his victims. His dramatic death could turn him into an iconic martyr for some disgusting political cause. Finally, people in the courtroom may be permanently scarred that they saw a man commit suicide in front of them. Just some of many reasons that prisoner suicide is something to be avoided.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:08 PM on November 29, 2017 [14 favorites]
A sentence of life imprisonment without the likely option of suicide is a greater deterrent than one with the option of suicide. I want anyone committing crimes against humanity to fear that this choice will be taken away from them, as well as their freedom.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:12 PM on November 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:12 PM on November 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
Finally, people in the court room may be permanently scarred that they saw a man commit suicide in front of them.
Certainly possible. After all, I've had a definite damper put on my evening by the fact I've seen 30-40 members of a community I belong to celebrating the death of a person, even a monstrous person such as this.
posted by ambrosen at 3:15 PM on November 29, 2017 [7 favorites]
Certainly possible. After all, I've had a definite damper put on my evening by the fact I've seen 30-40 members of a community I belong to celebrating the death of a person, even a monstrous person such as this.
posted by ambrosen at 3:15 PM on November 29, 2017 [7 favorites]
"Cyanide capsule," Cap would have said.
I saw what happened with Ozymandias.
Psychic space squid incoming. Wrap your heads with triple-strength foil, friends.
posted by Guy Smiley at 3:16 PM on November 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
I saw what happened with Ozymandias.
Psychic space squid incoming. Wrap your heads with triple-strength foil, friends.
posted by Guy Smiley at 3:16 PM on November 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
It's entirely possible some of his surviving victims share my preference for him being required to rot in jail over his clear desire for suicide.
Sure, but I do not think victims' desire for someone to suffer should sentencing. And it doesn't trump what I believe is a fundamental right for people to end their lives, even war criminals.
He might eventually have acknowledged his guilt and apologized to his victims.
I concede this would be desirable, but it seems odd to say "we're going to force you to stay alive because you might apologize before you die and that would be nice." I mean, the guy was 72 and had already been incarcerated for over a decade. This seems like a strange thing to hold out for.
His dramatic death could turn him into an iconic martyr for some disgusting political cause.
I'll believe it when I see it.
Finally, people in the court room may be permanently scarred that they saw a man commit suicide in front of them.
Yeah, that is unfortunate. It would have been nicer if he could just make himself vanish. But it's not like he exploded blood and guts all over everyone. He chugged the bottle and got hauled off. It's probably much less shocking than listening to, like, what the guy actually did, as folks in the room had.
I've had a definite damper put on my evening by the fact I've seen 30-40 members of a community I belong to celebrating the death of a person, even a monstrous person such as this.
Agree with this. Celebrating someone's death isn't a nice thing. I don't mean to express elation here. I just think he had a right to kill himself, and it's just as well that he did.
posted by andrewpcone at 3:20 PM on November 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
Sure, but I do not think victims' desire for someone to suffer should sentencing. And it doesn't trump what I believe is a fundamental right for people to end their lives, even war criminals.
He might eventually have acknowledged his guilt and apologized to his victims.
I concede this would be desirable, but it seems odd to say "we're going to force you to stay alive because you might apologize before you die and that would be nice." I mean, the guy was 72 and had already been incarcerated for over a decade. This seems like a strange thing to hold out for.
His dramatic death could turn him into an iconic martyr for some disgusting political cause.
I'll believe it when I see it.
Finally, people in the court room may be permanently scarred that they saw a man commit suicide in front of them.
Yeah, that is unfortunate. It would have been nicer if he could just make himself vanish. But it's not like he exploded blood and guts all over everyone. He chugged the bottle and got hauled off. It's probably much less shocking than listening to, like, what the guy actually did, as folks in the room had.
I've had a definite damper put on my evening by the fact I've seen 30-40 members of a community I belong to celebrating the death of a person, even a monstrous person such as this.
Agree with this. Celebrating someone's death isn't a nice thing. I don't mean to express elation here. I just think he had a right to kill himself, and it's just as well that he did.
posted by andrewpcone at 3:20 PM on November 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
He must have felt he'd have better luck appealing to a higher court.
posted by Ice Cream Socialist at 3:21 PM on November 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Ice Cream Socialist at 3:21 PM on November 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
I'm not saying I hope this turns into a trend but
Also, if this sounds familiar to any American courtwatchers, it happened in Arizona in 2012, too.
posted by Guy Smiley at 3:24 PM on November 29, 2017
Also, if this sounds familiar to any American courtwatchers, it happened in Arizona in 2012, too.
posted by Guy Smiley at 3:24 PM on November 29, 2017
It's entirely possible some of his surviving victims share my preference for him being required to rot in jail over his clear desire for suicide.
Considering that he had served a large part of his 20 year sentence already, he would have been free within the foreseeable future, even if the remainder of the sentence might have taken place under less comfortable conditions.
It does seem to be a show of contempt of the court rather than the clichéd "easy way out."
posted by cx at 3:26 PM on November 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
Considering that he had served a large part of his 20 year sentence already, he would have been free within the foreseeable future, even if the remainder of the sentence might have taken place under less comfortable conditions.
It does seem to be a show of contempt of the court rather than the clichéd "easy way out."
posted by cx at 3:26 PM on November 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
Works for me.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 3:40 PM on November 29, 2017
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 3:40 PM on November 29, 2017
keeping a person in prison for life is expensive, I'd rather see that money spent on something worthwhile.
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 3:50 PM on November 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 3:50 PM on November 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
Does he realize he is just following in the footsteps of Heinrich Himmler and Joseph Goebbels
Yes. Yes he realizes.
The Nazi's footsteps being followed the most closely here belong to Hermann Goering.
posted by Rash at 4:22 PM on November 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
Yes. Yes he realizes.
The Nazi's footsteps being followed the most closely here belong to Hermann Goering.
posted by Rash at 4:22 PM on November 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
keeping a person in prison for life is expensive, I'd rather see that money spent on something worthwhile.
Life in prison is cheaper then the death sentence (when done legally).
I agree that people should have a right to die when they decide but that they give up this right (like many others) while serving prison sentences. They have a debt to society that can not be paid if they are dead.
posted by uftheory at 4:25 PM on November 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
Life in prison is cheaper then the death sentence (when done legally).
I agree that people should have a right to die when they decide but that they give up this right (like many others) while serving prison sentences. They have a debt to society that can not be paid if they are dead.
posted by uftheory at 4:25 PM on November 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
To be fair the vial of poison was labeled "Not Poison," so it's understandable it was missed by security.
posted by brundlefly at 4:25 PM on November 29, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by brundlefly at 4:25 PM on November 29, 2017 [14 favorites]
Certainly possible. After all, I've had a definite damper put on my evening by the fact I've seen 30-40 members of a community I belong to celebrating the death of a person, even a monstrous person such as this.
I disagree. I didn't have any bloodlust towards this guy, but fuck him. With all due respect to John Donne, I do not feel in any way diminished by his death. I will save my human compassion for the victims of murder, rape, ethnic cleansing and crimes against humanity perpetrated by this man and others like him. I don't actively hope for anyone's death, but I have no problem with grave dancing when a monstrous person dies.
I do think that there needs to be an investigation and someone needs to be fired and/or prosecuted for this. The fact that he was able to do this in court provided him with an international stage for what should have been a private death, whenever it happened.
You will definitely want to stay out of the Dick Cheney and Trump obit threads.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 4:30 PM on November 29, 2017 [14 favorites]
I disagree. I didn't have any bloodlust towards this guy, but fuck him. With all due respect to John Donne, I do not feel in any way diminished by his death. I will save my human compassion for the victims of murder, rape, ethnic cleansing and crimes against humanity perpetrated by this man and others like him. I don't actively hope for anyone's death, but I have no problem with grave dancing when a monstrous person dies.
I do think that there needs to be an investigation and someone needs to be fired and/or prosecuted for this. The fact that he was able to do this in court provided him with an international stage for what should have been a private death, whenever it happened.
You will definitely want to stay out of the Dick Cheney and Trump obit threads.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 4:30 PM on November 29, 2017 [14 favorites]
I never met him, but he might have been commanding the Croat unit bombarding Mostar when I was there.
What a background: engineering (a thesis on tv signals), theater. Formed a military unit drawn from local intellectuals.
posted by doctornemo at 4:48 PM on November 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
What a background: engineering (a thesis on tv signals), theater. Formed a military unit drawn from local intellectuals.
posted by doctornemo at 4:48 PM on November 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
I have so many questions!
As covered before, how did he get the vial into the courtroom with him? But even earlier, where did he get the vial from? He must have known there was a good chance he was going to be found guilty, so he contacted someone not on trial to obtain poison and get it to him somehow. How did that process happen? I suspect his lawyers . . .
Also, what would he have done with the vial if he had been acquitted? Kinda awkward to be carrying it back out unused . . .
posted by chainsofreedom at 5:05 PM on November 29, 2017
As covered before, how did he get the vial into the courtroom with him? But even earlier, where did he get the vial from? He must have known there was a good chance he was going to be found guilty, so he contacted someone not on trial to obtain poison and get it to him somehow. How did that process happen? I suspect his lawyers . . .
Also, what would he have done with the vial if he had been acquitted? Kinda awkward to be carrying it back out unused . . .
posted by chainsofreedom at 5:05 PM on November 29, 2017
hide it behind a power socket in his living room, of course.
posted by Sebmojo at 5:24 PM on November 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Sebmojo at 5:24 PM on November 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
I didn't have any bloodlust towards this guy, but fuck him.
To each their own, of course, but I find myself in the same boat. I'm anti-death penalty, I'm appalled when people post elaborate murder fantasies on facebook when someone posts an article about an pet abuser or whatever, but I also don't hold human life so sacred that I'm not relieved or at least "whatever" about an awful war criminal being dead.
posted by snofoam at 5:35 PM on November 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
To each their own, of course, but I find myself in the same boat. I'm anti-death penalty, I'm appalled when people post elaborate murder fantasies on facebook when someone posts an article about an pet abuser or whatever, but I also don't hold human life so sacred that I'm not relieved or at least "whatever" about an awful war criminal being dead.
posted by snofoam at 5:35 PM on November 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
As far as I'm concerned, whomever was responsible for him getting the poison should be held accountable for his death, and also should be on the hook for his death and the crimes that were committed by him, as his victims and their families will never see justice. Genocidal monsters should not be able to escape justice.
posted by honeybee413 at 6:22 PM on November 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by honeybee413 at 6:22 PM on November 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
this coward's death
The perfect word. He was a mangy coward, and decided to grandstand his way out. I have no sympathy or empathy for him, all is reserved for his victims. .
posted by BlueHorse at 6:37 PM on November 29, 2017
The perfect word. He was a mangy coward, and decided to grandstand his way out. I have no sympathy or empathy for him, all is reserved for his victims. .
posted by BlueHorse at 6:37 PM on November 29, 2017
- His dramatic death could turn him into an iconic martyr for some disgusting political cause.
- I'll believe it when I see it.
Seriously? See what? Is it not blindingly obvious already? Why else would he even have done that...! But here you go, for your own convenience just a quick roundup of the reactions quoted in pretty much every report on this.
It’s completely baffling that anyone with thinking capabilities could cheer this suicide as a good outcome. But hey if saying "good riddance" makes any of you reading about this in the US feel better, that’s all that matters really...
posted by bitteschoen at 6:52 PM on November 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
- I'll believe it when I see it.
Seriously? See what? Is it not blindingly obvious already? Why else would he even have done that...! But here you go, for your own convenience just a quick roundup of the reactions quoted in pretty much every report on this.
It’s completely baffling that anyone with thinking capabilities could cheer this suicide as a good outcome. But hey if saying "good riddance" makes any of you reading about this in the US feel better, that’s all that matters really...
posted by bitteschoen at 6:52 PM on November 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
Seriously. Don't they, you know, search prisoners?
Seriously Don't they, know know, search poisoners?
posted by erattacorrige at 7:25 PM on November 29, 2017
Seriously Don't they, know know, search poisoners?
posted by erattacorrige at 7:25 PM on November 29, 2017
Let us take a step back and ponder what a mess 2017 has been in so many ways: a convicted war criminal committed suicide in a courtroom and it is probably like the fourth most surprising thing in the news today.
It’s been 35 years since Budd Dwyer’s final press conference and I still readily recall his name. I will struggle to recall Praljak’s in a week.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 9:31 PM on November 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
It’s been 35 years since Budd Dwyer’s final press conference and I still readily recall his name. I will struggle to recall Praljak’s in a week.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 9:31 PM on November 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
People who have attempted to perpetrate genocide should not be allowed to die thinking their actions were correct. Obviously, lifetime incarceration probably doesn’t convince a racist they were wrong, but they should live as long as possible with the knowledge that most of humanity thinks they are wrong.
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 9:44 PM on November 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 9:44 PM on November 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
To be fair the vial of poison was labeled "Not Poison," so it's understandable it was missed by security.
It's an international court, maybe today it was a French guard on duty who thought it was a misspelled single serving of fish sauce, or Chinese dude who thought it was a typo'd bottle of Hoisin.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 10:35 PM on November 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
It's an international court, maybe today it was a French guard on duty who thought it was a misspelled single serving of fish sauce, or Chinese dude who thought it was a typo'd bottle of Hoisin.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 10:35 PM on November 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
I see, so
posted by Joe in Australia at 12:27 AM on November 30, 2017 [8 favorites]
ᴘᴏɪsᴏɴ ☠️ ❌❌❌❌means "fish sauce, good for your skeleton, kiss kiss kiss kiss"? OK, seems legit.
posted by Joe in Australia at 12:27 AM on November 30, 2017 [8 favorites]
This doesn't make sense. He's been in custody since 2004 and according to this most prisoners are released after serving 2/3 of their time.
posted by rdr at 12:59 AM on November 30, 2017
posted by rdr at 12:59 AM on November 30, 2017
Just seen my first meme based on this guy in the wild... what a time to be alive.
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 1:20 AM on November 30, 2017
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 1:20 AM on November 30, 2017
Doesn't he realize ..... Yes he realizes.
Realized. And fuck that dude.
posted by spitbull at 8:33 AM on December 1, 2017
Realized. And fuck that dude.
posted by spitbull at 8:33 AM on December 1, 2017
Slobodan Praljak's suicide reopens old wounds in Bosnia In his hometown of Čapljina, the convicted Croat general is hailed by many as a hero, while others have less rosy memories
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 4:12 AM on December 2, 2017
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 4:12 AM on December 2, 2017
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posted by Capt. Renault at 1:08 PM on November 29, 2017 [40 favorites]