Chinese Food, Movies, and ...Museums!
December 26, 2017 8:03 AM Subscribe
Jewish Americans and Chinese food on Christmas: James Deutsch of Smithsonian Folklife discusses how it evolved. Though the classic day's entertainment for many is movies, it's also a big day for many Jewish-heritage museums, like the National Museum of American Jewish History in Philadelphia, the Museum at Eldridge Street in NYC, and the Contemporary Jewish Museum in SF.
Is this missing a link? Where is the actual discussion?
posted by jayz at 8:31 AM on December 26, 2017
posted by jayz at 8:31 AM on December 26, 2017
From 2015: Oh Come, All Ye Hungry, to a Chinese Restaurant on Christmas, by James Deutsch.
"I always figured the reason Jewish Americans (especially those in the New York metropolitan area) went to Chinese restaurants on Christmas was that almost all other restaurants were closed. That’s still part of the explanation, but there seems to be much more to the phenomenon according to several recent studies, including “Why American Jews Eat Chinese Food on Christmas,” “Jewish Activities on Christmas: An Online Case Study,” “Identity Takeout: How American Jews Made Chinese Food Their Ethnic Cuisine,” and A Kosher Christmas: ’Tis the Season to Be Jewish...."
posted by MonkeyToes at 8:56 AM on December 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
"I always figured the reason Jewish Americans (especially those in the New York metropolitan area) went to Chinese restaurants on Christmas was that almost all other restaurants were closed. That’s still part of the explanation, but there seems to be much more to the phenomenon according to several recent studies, including “Why American Jews Eat Chinese Food on Christmas,” “Jewish Activities on Christmas: An Online Case Study,” “Identity Takeout: How American Jews Made Chinese Food Their Ethnic Cuisine,” and A Kosher Christmas: ’Tis the Season to Be Jewish...."
posted by MonkeyToes at 8:56 AM on December 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
Never mind...
posted by jim in austin at 8:57 AM on December 26, 2017
posted by jim in austin at 8:57 AM on December 26, 2017
Forgot to add the links Deutsch mentions:
The Atlantic: Why American Jews Eat Chinese Food on Christmas
NY Folklore Society: Jewish Activities on Christmas: An Online Case Study
Identity Takeout: How American Jews Made Chinese Food Their Ethnic Cuisine
A Kosher Christmas: A Kosher Christmas: ’Tis the Season to Be Jewish
posted by MonkeyToes at 9:05 AM on December 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
The Atlantic: Why American Jews Eat Chinese Food on Christmas
NY Folklore Society: Jewish Activities on Christmas: An Online Case Study
Identity Takeout: How American Jews Made Chinese Food Their Ethnic Cuisine
A Kosher Christmas: A Kosher Christmas: ’Tis the Season to Be Jewish
posted by MonkeyToes at 9:05 AM on December 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
Christmas Day is also one of the biggest days of the year for The Jewish Museum in New York, which is devoted to Jewish art, history and culture. Jewish institutions and specifically those devoted to the Holocaust (such as the Jewish Heritage Museum noted in the post above) often remain open on Christmas. In part as a way for our community to immerse ourselves in something that is ours, while Christmas-related media (and 'war on Christmas' bigotry against non-Christians in the media) are inescapable. A large number of Jewish day schools -- especially Orthodox ones -- are open on Christmas as well.
There's been a movement among some Jews in the last few years to move away from going out to eat or ordering in food from Chinese restaurants on Christmas, out of respect for workers forced to work on the holiday by their employers. For example, my family made our own Asian fusion dinner on Christmas Eve this year, and we went to friends for homemade Argentine/Mexican food on Christmas Day. (The Jewish couple we were visiting hails from those countries.) Many of our Jewish (theist and secular) friends are doing the same. Last year, we ordered in a large Chinese food meal on December 23rd, and enjoyed it on Christmas Day. In my family, we consider it a very small act of Tikkun Olam, and a way to teach our children to respect others.
posted by zarq at 9:10 AM on December 26, 2017 [9 favorites]
There's been a movement among some Jews in the last few years to move away from going out to eat or ordering in food from Chinese restaurants on Christmas, out of respect for workers forced to work on the holiday by their employers. For example, my family made our own Asian fusion dinner on Christmas Eve this year, and we went to friends for homemade Argentine/Mexican food on Christmas Day. (The Jewish couple we were visiting hails from those countries.) Many of our Jewish (theist and secular) friends are doing the same. Last year, we ordered in a large Chinese food meal on December 23rd, and enjoyed it on Christmas Day. In my family, we consider it a very small act of Tikkun Olam, and a way to teach our children to respect others.
posted by zarq at 9:10 AM on December 26, 2017 [9 favorites]
it's the one day god definitely isn't watching and we can have as much pork as we want
posted by poffin boffin at 9:46 AM on December 26, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by poffin boffin at 9:46 AM on December 26, 2017 [14 favorites]
it's the one day god definitely isn't watching and we can have as much pork as we want
Christmas (Eve) dinner with my parents was latkes fried in bacon fat and a honey-baked ham, chosen and cooked by my Jewish dad. It's sacri-licious!
posted by zombieflanders at 10:15 AM on December 26, 2017 [11 favorites]
Christmas (Eve) dinner with my parents was latkes fried in bacon fat and a honey-baked ham, chosen and cooked by my Jewish dad. It's sacri-licious!
posted by zombieflanders at 10:15 AM on December 26, 2017 [11 favorites]
There's been a movement among some Jews in the last few years to move away from going out to eat or ordering in food from Chinese restaurants on Christmas, out of respect for workers forced to work on the holiday by their employers.
This sentiment seems kind of misaimed. They're not being forced to work on a holiday; if they're not Christian then it's simply not a special day that should be set aside. That's exactly why the Jewish-Chinese Christmas connection developed in the first place. If anything, withholding business from these restaurants that don't close because they don't celebrate this holiday harms the workers.
posted by Sangermaine at 10:43 AM on December 26, 2017 [6 favorites]
This sentiment seems kind of misaimed. They're not being forced to work on a holiday; if they're not Christian then it's simply not a special day that should be set aside. That's exactly why the Jewish-Chinese Christmas connection developed in the first place. If anything, withholding business from these restaurants that don't close because they don't celebrate this holiday harms the workers.
posted by Sangermaine at 10:43 AM on December 26, 2017 [6 favorites]
This sentiment seems kind of misaimed. They're not being forced to work on a holiday; if they're not Christian then it's simply not a special day that should be set aside.
Without interrogating every single person who works in a restaurant, we can't know if any of them are Christian or not. The two local Chinese restaurants that we frequent are open on Christmas but the owners are Christian. (We visit enough that we chat with the owners when we visit or pick up an order.)
Personally, I'm okay with ordering food a day or two early (which is not a loss for the business) or skipping a single order to potentially make a kind gesture. Our local places get more than enough business from me (and truth be told, from my fellow Jews,) that they're not going to be hurting if we happen to forego ordering a meal on Christmas.
That's exactly why the Jewish-Chinese Christmas connection developed in the first place.
A restaurant that is open on Christmas Eve or Christmas Day is not necessarily owned by non-Christians. I wouldn't assume so, anyway.
posted by zarq at 11:10 AM on December 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
Without interrogating every single person who works in a restaurant, we can't know if any of them are Christian or not. The two local Chinese restaurants that we frequent are open on Christmas but the owners are Christian. (We visit enough that we chat with the owners when we visit or pick up an order.)
Personally, I'm okay with ordering food a day or two early (which is not a loss for the business) or skipping a single order to potentially make a kind gesture. Our local places get more than enough business from me (and truth be told, from my fellow Jews,) that they're not going to be hurting if we happen to forego ordering a meal on Christmas.
That's exactly why the Jewish-Chinese Christmas connection developed in the first place.
A restaurant that is open on Christmas Eve or Christmas Day is not necessarily owned by non-Christians. I wouldn't assume so, anyway.
posted by zarq at 11:10 AM on December 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
I, for one, enjoyed my dish of shrimp and shiitake mushrooms at Mr. Chan's.
posted by Faint of Butt at 11:28 AM on December 26, 2017
posted by Faint of Butt at 11:28 AM on December 26, 2017
For the last four years (including just yesterday), I've been making America's Test Kitchen's orange-flavored chicken for Jewish Xmas. Oh my god is it mindblowingly good.
posted by Conrad Cornelius o'Donald o'Dell at 11:44 AM on December 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Conrad Cornelius o'Donald o'Dell at 11:44 AM on December 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
As a single guy whose family and friends live many miles away, I'm deeply grateful to the neighborhood asian restaurants and grocery stores in my neighborhood that are open on Christmas Eve and Christmas day. A good meal is tremendous solace on an otherwise lonely day.
posted by wotsac at 12:22 PM on December 26, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by wotsac at 12:22 PM on December 26, 2017 [6 favorites]
We (most of us) live in a Christian-majority culture that is so dominant and pervasive that basically everything at this time of year – commerce, entertainment, politics – is Christmas-themed and the goddam President of the United States puts out special press releases pretending that the US Air Force has observed the visitation of a Christian saint who distributes presents on honour of the Christ Child.
I don't see why we have to preemptively cringe to the extent that we refuse to frequent other people's businesses, lest they possibly have a hypothetical Christian employee who's miffed at having to act like regular people and work when the business is open. I mean, can you imagine Christians being expected to stay home in the evening during Chanukah so that Jews don't have to work late? Or come to work early during Ramadan if that fits in better with Muslims' fast? The first step towards building a multicultural society is behaving as if you already live in one.
posted by Joe in Australia at 1:53 PM on December 26, 2017 [10 favorites]
I don't see why we have to preemptively cringe to the extent that we refuse to frequent other people's businesses, lest they possibly have a hypothetical Christian employee who's miffed at having to act like regular people and work when the business is open. I mean, can you imagine Christians being expected to stay home in the evening during Chanukah so that Jews don't have to work late? Or come to work early during Ramadan if that fits in better with Muslims' fast? The first step towards building a multicultural society is behaving as if you already live in one.
posted by Joe in Australia at 1:53 PM on December 26, 2017 [10 favorites]
Hej Joe, do Aussie Jews eat Chinese food for Christmas too? I'm really curious about this tradition because I didn't know about it until I lived in New York for a while.
About the Christians who work at Christmas: I know a lot of Christians who choose to work at Christmas for a multitude of reasons, including some deeply religious ones who feel it is a very spiritual way to spend the holiday. Once in Rome we had a Christmas Eve dinner at a restaurant where they clearly felt and acted as if they were sharing the feast rather than serving clients (we did pay, though).
Most observant Jews I know here just get on with life as usual, enjoying the time off from work but having normal meals at home. My own family which is a mix of secular Jews, fourth generation hardline atheists and religious protestants does Christmas across the board, but at different levels of engagement dependent on who is together for the holiday.
posted by mumimor at 2:24 PM on December 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
About the Christians who work at Christmas: I know a lot of Christians who choose to work at Christmas for a multitude of reasons, including some deeply religious ones who feel it is a very spiritual way to spend the holiday. Once in Rome we had a Christmas Eve dinner at a restaurant where they clearly felt and acted as if they were sharing the feast rather than serving clients (we did pay, though).
Most observant Jews I know here just get on with life as usual, enjoying the time off from work but having normal meals at home. My own family which is a mix of secular Jews, fourth generation hardline atheists and religious protestants does Christmas across the board, but at different levels of engagement dependent on who is together for the holiday.
posted by mumimor at 2:24 PM on December 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
Hej Joe, do Aussie Jews eat Chinese food for Christmas too?
God fortsättning, mumimor. No, I think the first time I heard about this was watching Seinfeld. But also, the Australian restaurant/take-out food culture wasn't historically as strong as the US one, and by the time it took off we had a more multicultural society and fewer laws about opening on public holidays. I don't recall any sort of meme about Chinese restaurants specifically being the only ones open, anyway.
Also, most Australian Jews are non-observant Orthodox, and this was particularly true a few decades ago. Lots of them eat/ate non-kosher food, but just for preference or convenience, not as a "this is what we do as Jews" thing. A friend of mine was told by their father that pineapple bacon (?) pizzas were actually vegetarian (so not very non-kosher) and they only realised the truth after explaining it to the other members of their college-age Jewish youth group, and realising how unlikely that sounded.
posted by Joe in Australia at 2:42 PM on December 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
God fortsättning, mumimor. No, I think the first time I heard about this was watching Seinfeld. But also, the Australian restaurant/take-out food culture wasn't historically as strong as the US one, and by the time it took off we had a more multicultural society and fewer laws about opening on public holidays. I don't recall any sort of meme about Chinese restaurants specifically being the only ones open, anyway.
Also, most Australian Jews are non-observant Orthodox, and this was particularly true a few decades ago. Lots of them eat/ate non-kosher food, but just for preference or convenience, not as a "this is what we do as Jews" thing. A friend of mine was told by their father that pineapple bacon (?) pizzas were actually vegetarian (so not very non-kosher) and they only realised the truth after explaining it to the other members of their college-age Jewish youth group, and realising how unlikely that sounded.
posted by Joe in Australia at 2:42 PM on December 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
The Chinese restaurant I frequent is owned by Christian Chinese folks (extremely tracts-on-offer-at-the-counter evangelical Christian) and staffed by more than one Latinx person (this is by far the more common situation than "Are the Chinese owners of this restaurant Christians?"). But I don't think they're open on Christmas, so that takes care of that conundrum. The major Jewish part of town here has, in recent years, also become the epicenter of Chinese university students and hence many Chinese restaurants (very good ones). That's the height of convenience, right there.
posted by soren_lorensen at 3:05 PM on December 26, 2017
posted by soren_lorensen at 3:05 PM on December 26, 2017
The Chinese restaurant I was at last night was so packed it was 1-2 hour wait for dinner, and they had run out of Peking duck and chicken feet by the time we showed up. It wasn't a small restaurant either - probably holds about 100-150 people at a time. This has got to be their biggest night of the year.
posted by Toddles at 3:05 PM on December 26, 2017
posted by Toddles at 3:05 PM on December 26, 2017
About the Christians who work at Christmas
The most honest Christian I know is the son of a plumber who would GLADLY go out on emergency calls on Christmas Eve/Day and never take a dime in payment.
posted by mikelieman at 3:11 PM on December 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
The most honest Christian I know is the son of a plumber who would GLADLY go out on emergency calls on Christmas Eve/Day and never take a dime in payment.
posted by mikelieman at 3:11 PM on December 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
I don't see why we have to preemptively cringe to the extent that we refuse to frequent other people's businesses, lest they possibly have a hypothetical Christian employee who's miffed at having to act like regular people and work when the business is open. I mean, can you imagine Christians being expected to stay home in the evening during Chanukah so that Jews don't have to work late? Or come to work early during Ramadan if that fits in better with Muslims' fast?
Should that matter?
The first step towards building a multicultural society is behaving as if you already live in one.
One of the more unfortunate things about living in the US is the powerless have always been required to fight for those things that the privileged majority in power take for granted. This can be something as important as the right to vote, to something as mundane as being able to take a day off from work for say, religious observance, or to go to the doctor. In America, respect, acceptance and dignity have to be fought for. They are rarely given freely.
For me, the first step in building a multicultural society isn't behaving as if you already live in one. The first step is teaching those in the majority (who have no particular need to show acceptance and to accommodate the minority) by example that respect for beliefs of all cultures is vitally important. Also, that said respect should always apply equally. Tikkun Olam isn't about taking what's rightfully yours or turning one's nose up. It's about protecting, safeguarding those who are disadvantaged. The issue here isn't one of privilege given. It's of offering basic human dignity to the powerless.
We should be able to offer such things to everyone equally. Be they poor or wealthy, Christian or non. Living reciprocity.
posted by zarq at 3:17 PM on December 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
Should that matter?
The first step towards building a multicultural society is behaving as if you already live in one.
One of the more unfortunate things about living in the US is the powerless have always been required to fight for those things that the privileged majority in power take for granted. This can be something as important as the right to vote, to something as mundane as being able to take a day off from work for say, religious observance, or to go to the doctor. In America, respect, acceptance and dignity have to be fought for. They are rarely given freely.
For me, the first step in building a multicultural society isn't behaving as if you already live in one. The first step is teaching those in the majority (who have no particular need to show acceptance and to accommodate the minority) by example that respect for beliefs of all cultures is vitally important. Also, that said respect should always apply equally. Tikkun Olam isn't about taking what's rightfully yours or turning one's nose up. It's about protecting, safeguarding those who are disadvantaged. The issue here isn't one of privilege given. It's of offering basic human dignity to the powerless.
We should be able to offer such things to everyone equally. Be they poor or wealthy, Christian or non. Living reciprocity.
posted by zarq at 3:17 PM on December 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
"I mean, can you imagine Christians being expected to stay home in the evening during Chanukah so that Jews don't have to work late?"
I mean, yes? I've lived most of my life in a community where everything is closed on Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur, you can't get leavened pizza delivered for love or money during Passover, all high school activities have to be finished before sunset on Friday so observant Jews are home for the Sabbath (which is tricky in the winter when the sun sets really early), and school and recreational sports leagues don't play on Saturdays. Of course tons of businesses close for Jewish observances, and of course Jewish employees aren't expected to work during them even when those businesses stay open. This usually means an amicable trade of Hanukkah shifts for Christmas shifts, but if you don't have enough Christians to open on, say, Rosh Hashanah, you don't open, and it's not weird, people who forget and go to a closed store or restaurant just say, "Oh, shoot, I forgot it was Rosh Hashanah." It seems like ... a really normal part of living in a multicultural community where you respect your neighbors' religious practices? It's easy to imagine because it's my regular life!
(And, yes, when everything local closes for the High Holidays, the movie theaters remain open, and that is what Christians do for Yom Kippur -- go to the movies. A time-honored activity for other people's holy days, when you've got the day off but everything is closed!)
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 3:19 PM on December 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
I mean, yes? I've lived most of my life in a community where everything is closed on Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur, you can't get leavened pizza delivered for love or money during Passover, all high school activities have to be finished before sunset on Friday so observant Jews are home for the Sabbath (which is tricky in the winter when the sun sets really early), and school and recreational sports leagues don't play on Saturdays. Of course tons of businesses close for Jewish observances, and of course Jewish employees aren't expected to work during them even when those businesses stay open. This usually means an amicable trade of Hanukkah shifts for Christmas shifts, but if you don't have enough Christians to open on, say, Rosh Hashanah, you don't open, and it's not weird, people who forget and go to a closed store or restaurant just say, "Oh, shoot, I forgot it was Rosh Hashanah." It seems like ... a really normal part of living in a multicultural community where you respect your neighbors' religious practices? It's easy to imagine because it's my regular life!
(And, yes, when everything local closes for the High Holidays, the movie theaters remain open, and that is what Christians do for Yom Kippur -- go to the movies. A time-honored activity for other people's holy days, when you've got the day off but everything is closed!)
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 3:19 PM on December 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
The Chinese restaurant I was at last night was so packed it was 1-2 hour wait for dinner, and they had run out of Peking duck and chicken feet by the time we showed up. It wasn't a small restaurant either - probably holds about 100-150 people at a time. This has got to be their biggest night of the year.
My parents live in a suburb with large Jewish and Chinese communities. I recall a 45-minute wait at their favorite Chinese place one Christmas. It was packed with what looked like about an equal amount of Jewish and Chinese families!
posted by the_blizz at 3:23 PM on December 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
My parents live in a suburb with large Jewish and Chinese communities. I recall a 45-minute wait at their favorite Chinese place one Christmas. It was packed with what looked like about an equal amount of Jewish and Chinese families!
posted by the_blizz at 3:23 PM on December 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
You know what though, one of the things I like about being Jewish on Christmas is having no obligations whatsoever. So one can't be too insistent on spending Christmas this way. After a year that my folks expressed dismay that I wasn't joining them for Chinese food and a movie, I took a break from the whole thing for a while. Much to my mom's dismay, because part of the family tradition is voting on which movie to see, and she and I often formed a voting bloc.
posted by the_blizz at 3:31 PM on December 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by the_blizz at 3:31 PM on December 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
I mean, yes? I've lived most of my life in a community where everything is closed on Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur, you can't get leavened pizza delivered for love or money during Passover,
It sounds wonderful to me, and I bet your co-workers don't gripe about all those "vacation days" you take in the fall either. I often wish I could live in NYC (...or Israel?). Going to the bank this time of the year is like a visit to the North Pole.
It seems like ... a really normal part of living in a multicultural community where you respect your neighbors' religious practices?
Oh, right. That's what the rest of the world is missing. :(
posted by epanalepsis at 4:31 PM on December 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
It sounds wonderful to me, and I bet your co-workers don't gripe about all those "vacation days" you take in the fall either. I often wish I could live in NYC (...or Israel?). Going to the bank this time of the year is like a visit to the North Pole.
It seems like ... a really normal part of living in a multicultural community where you respect your neighbors' religious practices?
Oh, right. That's what the rest of the world is missing. :(
posted by epanalepsis at 4:31 PM on December 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
I often wish I could live in NYC
the only things closed in nyc during jewish holidays are jewish businesses and some schools. you can still go to the bank, order food from literally any restaurant, go to the movies, buy a house, buy a car, buy a pizza, buy a steak, have your cat wormed, have your dog bathed, anything. i can't imagine any business refusing to cook leavened food on passover that wouldn't already be closed for passover. how bizarre.
posted by poffin boffin at 8:51 PM on December 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
the only things closed in nyc during jewish holidays are jewish businesses and some schools. you can still go to the bank, order food from literally any restaurant, go to the movies, buy a house, buy a car, buy a pizza, buy a steak, have your cat wormed, have your dog bathed, anything. i can't imagine any business refusing to cook leavened food on passover that wouldn't already be closed for passover. how bizarre.
posted by poffin boffin at 8:51 PM on December 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
" I often wish I could live in NYC (...or Israel?)."
Chicago suburbs.
"i can't imagine any business refusing to cook leavened food on passover that wouldn't already be closed for passover."
The local Dominoes -- which used to be the only delivery place -- makes a lot more money off the Passover pizza than the regular pizza during Passover! So they KOSHER. IT. UP. (It's kinda good, I kinda look forward to it, since you can only get it like 9 days a year. As my friends have been telling me for years, I'd be less enamored of it if I HAD to eat unleavened bread all week, and I'm sure they're right.) Now we have a second, local delivery joint (Catholic-owned), I'm curious to see what they do for Passover. I mean obviously they'll do SOMETHING but I'm curious what.
I think NYC's too big -- as is Chicago. But suburbs are small enough to shut down (about 30,000 people in my current town), and Illinois has a provision in the state school code that local public school districts can opt to close if more than 25% (I think?) of their students won't be in attendance. In rural districts that sometimes means the first day of deer season the schools close; in very Catholic areas that might mean Good Friday; where I live, that means Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur. And if the public schools close, the town government offices close; and most of the businesses close because half the town's in synagogue all day; so they're very quiet days when it's thinly-staffed supermarkets and movie theaters and fast food places that are open; local businesses and restaurants are closed, as is any place that runs on teenage employees.
There are a number of local restaurants that cater birthday parties for kids that can do party food for your Jewish-Catholic-Hindu-Muslim-Buddhist-Mormon party where all the kids have various religious food restrictions. I remember turning seven and reciting for my mom what my friends' religions were so we'd get the food restrictions right at my birthday party. (Cheese pizza, decaf coke, will get you 90% of the way.) Of course you have to know what holidays are on so who has extra restrictions, and who keeps what level of kosher, and so on. (Like, my Orthodox friends simply weren't going to be allowed to eat at my house, no matter what, so just trying to schedule for a reasonable time when they wouldn't starve was the key point, along with de-emphasizing the cake.)
Anyway, my point is, as a Catholic, I think it's the most normal thing in the world to arrange my life schedule around Jewish religious observances, since that's how I grew up and how I live now that I've moved back to my hometown!
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 9:32 PM on December 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
Chicago suburbs.
"i can't imagine any business refusing to cook leavened food on passover that wouldn't already be closed for passover."
The local Dominoes -- which used to be the only delivery place -- makes a lot more money off the Passover pizza than the regular pizza during Passover! So they KOSHER. IT. UP. (It's kinda good, I kinda look forward to it, since you can only get it like 9 days a year. As my friends have been telling me for years, I'd be less enamored of it if I HAD to eat unleavened bread all week, and I'm sure they're right.) Now we have a second, local delivery joint (Catholic-owned), I'm curious to see what they do for Passover. I mean obviously they'll do SOMETHING but I'm curious what.
I think NYC's too big -- as is Chicago. But suburbs are small enough to shut down (about 30,000 people in my current town), and Illinois has a provision in the state school code that local public school districts can opt to close if more than 25% (I think?) of their students won't be in attendance. In rural districts that sometimes means the first day of deer season the schools close; in very Catholic areas that might mean Good Friday; where I live, that means Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur. And if the public schools close, the town government offices close; and most of the businesses close because half the town's in synagogue all day; so they're very quiet days when it's thinly-staffed supermarkets and movie theaters and fast food places that are open; local businesses and restaurants are closed, as is any place that runs on teenage employees.
There are a number of local restaurants that cater birthday parties for kids that can do party food for your Jewish-Catholic-Hindu-Muslim-Buddhist-Mormon party where all the kids have various religious food restrictions. I remember turning seven and reciting for my mom what my friends' religions were so we'd get the food restrictions right at my birthday party. (Cheese pizza, decaf coke, will get you 90% of the way.) Of course you have to know what holidays are on so who has extra restrictions, and who keeps what level of kosher, and so on. (Like, my Orthodox friends simply weren't going to be allowed to eat at my house, no matter what, so just trying to schedule for a reasonable time when they wouldn't starve was the key point, along with de-emphasizing the cake.)
Anyway, my point is, as a Catholic, I think it's the most normal thing in the world to arrange my life schedule around Jewish religious observances, since that's how I grew up and how I live now that I've moved back to my hometown!
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 9:32 PM on December 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
Such things are also not at all unusual where I live in Northen NJ. It’s pluralistic in a way I very belatedly realized is not the norm for the rest of the country or the world. But it’s the way I grew up and the way people here are mostly used to living.
posted by Miko at 6:04 AM on December 27, 2017
posted by Miko at 6:04 AM on December 27, 2017
The local Dominoes -- which used to be the only delivery place -- makes a lot more money off the Passover pizza than the regular pizza during Passover! So they KOSHER. IT. UP. (It's kinda good, I kinda look forward to it, since you can only get it like 9 days a year. As my friends have been telling me for years, I'd be less enamored of it if I HAD to eat unleavened bread all week, and I'm sure they're right.) Now we have a second, local delivery joint (Catholic-owned), I'm curious to see what they do for Passover. I mean obviously they'll do SOMETHING but I'm curious what.
Among Jews that do so, individual kosher practices are truly fascinating. Everyone has different rules they follow, and what applies to one probably doesn't apply to others. In the US, Orthodox Jews are a bit of an exception -- they're more stringent than most other sects.
Most Orthodox Jews won't eat at or get takeout from a restaurant which serves food that is nominally kosher but is prepared on equipment that also cooks non-kosher food. If the Dominos is normally kosher and certified by local Jewish kashrut authorities, Orthodox Jews still might not get a pizza made with a Passover-acceptable crust because the entire restaurant would need to be "turned over" for the holiday before being Kosher for Passover. Transforming a restaurant kitchen into kosher for Passover is a time-consuming, exacting and arduous process. Even some Jewish kosher restaurants don't bother to do it, especially if they already serve a large quantity of bread products, such as a pizza place.
Conservative Jews who keep kosher like myself tend to be a lot less strict about certain aspects of the practice, but some may observe stricter rules for the holiday, because Passover is an important one.
My first reaction to your comment about your local Dominos was to think, "but are they a kosher place the rest of the year?" Because that would matter to me and whether or not I would order in from there on Passover. Using myself as an example: my home is kosher, but I eat non-kosher food outside the house. So I might eat at a Catholic restaurant that serves a kosher for Passover-style menu, but I wouldn't bring that food into my home and eat it on my kosher Passover plates unless I was sure the restaurant was certified by the local Vaad or similar authority.
But what I do in my home isn't necessarily typical of the average Conservative Jew. It varies widely. As do Reform Jewish practices. And of course, most Jews don't necessarily keep kosher and wouldn't stop to think about it. It's fun to think about the different lines that people draw for themselves and their families on this issue.
It's also super-fascinating to me that you or anyone else would voluntarily eat kosher pizza. Like, there must be endless better-tasting options out there. When people say they voluntarily eat kosher pizza or pareve cake or drink Manischewitz wine, all I can think is "WHY?!" All are uniquely Jewish things that taste terrible. :)
posted by zarq at 8:13 AM on December 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
Among Jews that do so, individual kosher practices are truly fascinating. Everyone has different rules they follow, and what applies to one probably doesn't apply to others. In the US, Orthodox Jews are a bit of an exception -- they're more stringent than most other sects.
Most Orthodox Jews won't eat at or get takeout from a restaurant which serves food that is nominally kosher but is prepared on equipment that also cooks non-kosher food. If the Dominos is normally kosher and certified by local Jewish kashrut authorities, Orthodox Jews still might not get a pizza made with a Passover-acceptable crust because the entire restaurant would need to be "turned over" for the holiday before being Kosher for Passover. Transforming a restaurant kitchen into kosher for Passover is a time-consuming, exacting and arduous process. Even some Jewish kosher restaurants don't bother to do it, especially if they already serve a large quantity of bread products, such as a pizza place.
Conservative Jews who keep kosher like myself tend to be a lot less strict about certain aspects of the practice, but some may observe stricter rules for the holiday, because Passover is an important one.
My first reaction to your comment about your local Dominos was to think, "but are they a kosher place the rest of the year?" Because that would matter to me and whether or not I would order in from there on Passover. Using myself as an example: my home is kosher, but I eat non-kosher food outside the house. So I might eat at a Catholic restaurant that serves a kosher for Passover-style menu, but I wouldn't bring that food into my home and eat it on my kosher Passover plates unless I was sure the restaurant was certified by the local Vaad or similar authority.
But what I do in my home isn't necessarily typical of the average Conservative Jew. It varies widely. As do Reform Jewish practices. And of course, most Jews don't necessarily keep kosher and wouldn't stop to think about it. It's fun to think about the different lines that people draw for themselves and their families on this issue.
It's also super-fascinating to me that you or anyone else would voluntarily eat kosher pizza. Like, there must be endless better-tasting options out there. When people say they voluntarily eat kosher pizza or pareve cake or drink Manischewitz wine, all I can think is "WHY?!" All are uniquely Jewish things that taste terrible. :)
posted by zarq at 8:13 AM on December 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
I had the same question about how they managed to serve kosher pizza without completely overhauling the kitchen.
All are uniquely Jewish things that taste terrible. :)
Exception: yellow cap Coke!
posted by Miko at 8:54 AM on December 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
All are uniquely Jewish things that taste terrible. :)
Exception: yellow cap Coke!
posted by Miko at 8:54 AM on December 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
Lots of uniquely Jewish things taste delicious. I was only referring to Manischewitz, pareve desserts and kosher pizza.
I was also being a bit tongue-in-cheek. The quality of kosher pizza varies quite widely. My kids prefer one local kosher pizzeria over any of the other non-kosher ones in our area. And it's possible to make excellent pareve desserts at home. Most Duncan Hines cake mixes are dairy-free and OU-certified pareve.
Manischwitz, though. Terrible. Give me Bartenura any day.
posted by zarq at 9:05 AM on December 27, 2017
I was also being a bit tongue-in-cheek. The quality of kosher pizza varies quite widely. My kids prefer one local kosher pizzeria over any of the other non-kosher ones in our area. And it's possible to make excellent pareve desserts at home. Most Duncan Hines cake mixes are dairy-free and OU-certified pareve.
Manischwitz, though. Terrible. Give me Bartenura any day.
posted by zarq at 9:05 AM on December 27, 2017
I will argue there are many good pareve desserts. You just need one that isn't being made pareve based on a milk-requiring recipe. (See also: desserts that use matza meal instead of flour.)
I have one pareve, flour-free almond cake that I look forward to every year.
posted by jeather at 9:18 AM on December 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
I have one pareve, flour-free almond cake that I look forward to every year.
posted by jeather at 9:18 AM on December 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
In San Francisco there is the annual tradition of Kung Pao Kosher Comedy, which is an event with Jewish comedians in a Chinese restaurant. This year was the 25th anniversary show.
posted by larrybob at 11:27 AM on December 27, 2017
posted by larrybob at 11:27 AM on December 27, 2017
The Chinese restaurant I was at last night was so packed it was 1-2 hour wait for dinner, and they had run out of Peking duck and chicken feet by the time we showed up. It wasn't a small restaurant either - probably holds about 100-150 people at a time.
In my experience, lots of Chinese places in NYC take Christmas reservations well in advance; it’s the one day a year it’s borderline impossible to just walk in to a Chinese restaurant and get a table.
posted by Itaxpica at 8:18 PM on December 27, 2017
In my experience, lots of Chinese places in NYC take Christmas reservations well in advance; it’s the one day a year it’s borderline impossible to just walk in to a Chinese restaurant and get a table.
posted by Itaxpica at 8:18 PM on December 27, 2017
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