Trying to make craft beer for more than just dudebros
January 4, 2018 8:20 AM Subscribe
“It bothers me that it’s the same thing over and over,” says Lauter, who contacted the Ohio Craft Brewers Association over the Paradigm Shift fiasco, but never heard back. “It’s a lot of talking and not a lot of doing. It’s almost like there literally needs to be a guide of how to not name a beer like an asshole. I keep talking about making a resource like that myself.”Bryan Roth writes about the struggle to be more socially diverse in the craft beer industry.
> It’s almost like there literally needs to be a guide of how to not name a beer like an asshole.
It should be the easiest thing in the world, yet here we are.
Personally, as a grown-ass man who aspires to not be an asshole I would be ashamed to walk up to a cash register with a few cans of something called "Panty Dropper," but a lot of little boys never get past the stage in life where they think the height of wit is a Federal Breast Inspector t-shirt.
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:38 AM on January 4, 2018 [14 favorites]
It should be the easiest thing in the world, yet here we are.
Personally, as a grown-ass man who aspires to not be an asshole I would be ashamed to walk up to a cash register with a few cans of something called "Panty Dropper," but a lot of little boys never get past the stage in life where they think the height of wit is a Federal Breast Inspector t-shirt.
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:38 AM on January 4, 2018 [14 favorites]
it might also help if they stopped condoning blatant misogyny and racism
Shitty dudebro beer labeling and sexism in the brewing industry on the Blue: previously, previouslier, previousliest.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:39 AM on January 4, 2018 [21 favorites]
Shitty dudebro beer labeling and sexism in the brewing industry on the Blue: previously, previouslier, previousliest.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:39 AM on January 4, 2018 [21 favorites]
Hi, I am a woman and I work in craft beer. Diversity is absolutely a problem, as well as misogynistic attitudes. There are steps in the right direction, such as Nova Scotian brewers refusing to name beers after sexist shit as well as not tolerating regressive behaviour in the industry. One of the brewer/owners (who happens to be a PoC woman) gave a much-lauded speech at a CAMRA conference about things need to change and quickly. There is pushback, it is happening, it's just not happening as fast as I'd like.
On preview: I see zombieflanders has linked all my previous posts!
posted by Kitteh at 8:41 AM on January 4, 2018 [55 favorites]
On preview: I see zombieflanders has linked all my previous posts!
posted by Kitteh at 8:41 AM on January 4, 2018 [55 favorites]
And yes, I will personally call your brewery out if you name your beer after a woman's body parts/physical features/etc on my social media platforms.
posted by Kitteh at 8:42 AM on January 4, 2018 [33 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 8:42 AM on January 4, 2018 [33 favorites]
I have a copy of the God and Guinness book within eyesight right at this moment.
The people I know who drink craft beer are all hipster millenials. Not a diss, just an observation.
(Meanwhile I can tolerate a Miller or Guinness, but I am missing whatever gene it is that makes beer taste like something to spend good money on. Not the topic, but if someone can tell me how to actually start enjoying a beer, I would like to know.)
As to the noninclusivity and the mysogyny, from my observation, that is simply a factor that a high proportion of the age group in question is mysogynist and racist and immature and it bleeds into whatever they do. They change when they are forced to change and not before, and it is rarely heartfelt.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 8:48 AM on January 4, 2018 [4 favorites]
The people I know who drink craft beer are all hipster millenials. Not a diss, just an observation.
(Meanwhile I can tolerate a Miller or Guinness, but I am missing whatever gene it is that makes beer taste like something to spend good money on. Not the topic, but if someone can tell me how to actually start enjoying a beer, I would like to know.)
As to the noninclusivity and the mysogyny, from my observation, that is simply a factor that a high proportion of the age group in question is mysogynist and racist and immature and it bleeds into whatever they do. They change when they are forced to change and not before, and it is rarely heartfelt.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 8:48 AM on January 4, 2018 [4 favorites]
Yeah, as you can see, Kitteh is basically MeFi's resident expert on this topic.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:53 AM on January 4, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by zombieflanders at 8:53 AM on January 4, 2018 [3 favorites]
uh I'm a hipster millenial and I know plenty of PoC hipster millenials who are activists. if anything, the age range of people who never show up in those queer, radical, PoC-led spaces are between the ages of 30 to 55 so how about Gen Xers stop complaining hmm
posted by runt at 8:53 AM on January 4, 2018 [16 favorites]
posted by runt at 8:53 AM on January 4, 2018 [16 favorites]
The people I know who drink craft beer are all hipster millenials.
The older members of my family are all fans of craft beer, and are neither hipsters nor millenials. So no, it's not necessarily a generational or "hipster" thing.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:57 AM on January 4, 2018 [8 favorites]
The older members of my family are all fans of craft beer, and are neither hipsters nor millenials. So no, it's not necessarily a generational or "hipster" thing.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:57 AM on January 4, 2018 [8 favorites]
Good beer is good beer, and I'm sure nobody wants to go back to the days where bars had three beers on tap (Blue, Canadian and Coors Light in my neck of the woods), but holy cow has it been disheartening to see craft beer go from something that made every beer drinker's life better to yet another way for racist and sexist dickheads to loudly and proudly signal their lack of virtue. Just make good beer and not give it a shitty name and everyone will be happy.
posted by The Card Cheat at 9:02 AM on January 4, 2018 [33 favorites]
posted by The Card Cheat at 9:02 AM on January 4, 2018 [33 favorites]
Having just witnessed millions of dollars go towards a trust fund kid's brewery in a saturated market with a theme that can only be described as ummmm, only something a trust fund kid could afford to theme a brewery around, this hits WAY home. I'mma 36 year old 'girl', I'mma not rich, I'mma not going to be able to afford your cool people brewery.
There is a brewery in my town that does awesome non profit fundraisers to drive traffic (which is fine by me, as long as they are fair with the funds and transparent about the profit to donation percentage), who always has fun food trucks, who used literally SCRAPS to build their setup until they could hire local talent to build sustainable and creative furniture etc, and who has an extremely diverse crowd. It goes both ways I guess.
posted by lextex at 9:04 AM on January 4, 2018 [3 favorites]
There is a brewery in my town that does awesome non profit fundraisers to drive traffic (which is fine by me, as long as they are fair with the funds and transparent about the profit to donation percentage), who always has fun food trucks, who used literally SCRAPS to build their setup until they could hire local talent to build sustainable and creative furniture etc, and who has an extremely diverse crowd. It goes both ways I guess.
posted by lextex at 9:04 AM on January 4, 2018 [3 favorites]
Do a lot of craft beer drinkers skew bearded and hip? Well, a bit, sure. But I've seen the bad behaviour stem from all ages and ranges of life when it comes to men drinking craft beer. From the old schoolers who were doing it once homebrewing was legalized to whatever flavour of hipster no one likes this week, shittiness in craft beer is definitely not just limited to one age range.
posted by Kitteh at 9:06 AM on January 4, 2018 [13 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 9:06 AM on January 4, 2018 [13 favorites]
Was at a special event for New Years Day at the craft brewery in my neighborhood and managed to see a man and a woman pass each other in front of the bar - both black, both presenting as queer, both with short hair, both wearing the same nose ring (er, same style of nose ring). I thought that was a super cool unicorn moment - when are you ever going to see two reasonably unique people with that much in common pass each other randomly like that?
YMMV with craft beer in other places, but the hipstery neighborhoods around me tend to draw a pretty diverse crowd. That being said, the main special events in breweries around town tend be yoga, trivia and jogging - all three of which skew pretty heavily young and white. Breweries could do a better job connecting with communities and finding occasion to diversify the crowds they're trying to attract.
posted by GamblingBlues at 9:25 AM on January 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
YMMV with craft beer in other places, but the hipstery neighborhoods around me tend to draw a pretty diverse crowd. That being said, the main special events in breweries around town tend be yoga, trivia and jogging - all three of which skew pretty heavily young and white. Breweries could do a better job connecting with communities and finding occasion to diversify the crowds they're trying to attract.
posted by GamblingBlues at 9:25 AM on January 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
uh I'm a hipster millenial and I know plenty of PoC hipster millenials who are activists. if anything, the age range of people who never show up in those queer, radical, PoC-led spaces are between the ages of 30 to 55 so how about Gen Xers stop complaining hmm
Since I am a baby boomer they all look like Millenials to me.....in my defense I do live in a Southern military town too so your folk are underrepresented in my general demographics.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 9:27 AM on January 4, 2018
Since I am a baby boomer they all look like Millenials to me.....in my defense I do live in a Southern military town too so your folk are underrepresented in my general demographics.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 9:27 AM on January 4, 2018
I used to say, loudly and incessantly, that the only thing worse than beer snobs are coffee snobs. Just today, I started to return professionally to coffee, and leave behind beer. (Commercially, at least, I still love homebrewing.) Why? Because most coffee snobs aren't a creepy, racist, checklist driven, entitled, misogynistic lot. Hats off to those fighting the good fight, I just got to where I was ready to cede the territory.
posted by 1f2frfbf at 9:30 AM on January 4, 2018 [5 favorites]
posted by 1f2frfbf at 9:30 AM on January 4, 2018 [5 favorites]
I think this isn’t the first time I’ve mentioned this on the blue, but if you’re in New York and you homebrew or are interested in learning to homebrew and want to do so in the company of people who are kind, welcome, and will brook no racist or misogynistic nonsense, come check out the Brewminaries homebrew club in Brooklyn!
We have literally, in the club’s four year history, never had a male president.
posted by Itaxpica at 9:40 AM on January 4, 2018 [15 favorites]
We have literally, in the club’s four year history, never had a male president.
posted by Itaxpica at 9:40 AM on January 4, 2018 [15 favorites]
Darn. Do I need to give up one of my favs, Lagunitas Little Sumpin' Sumpin'? One site calls it out, another says it's sexy without being sexist.
posted by cccorlew at 9:41 AM on January 4, 2018
posted by cccorlew at 9:41 AM on January 4, 2018
I hate that my favourite tasting tall can at the LCBO is named 'Juicy Ass'. I don't even know what they're going for since the art on the can is inoffensive. (I haven't looked that closely, though.)
posted by Evstar at 9:48 AM on January 4, 2018
posted by Evstar at 9:48 AM on January 4, 2018
Ah, Flying Monkeys. Great brewery, but wow, yeah, that name is not great. I rarely see in my LCBO which is why I didn't know about it until now. Thanks for the heads-up about avoiding it.
posted by Kitteh at 9:51 AM on January 4, 2018
posted by Kitteh at 9:51 AM on January 4, 2018
I used to say, loudly and incessantly, that the only thing worse than beer snobs are coffee snobs.
That is a tough call! Beer people, in my experience, are worse as bores, wanting to tell you about all the different craft beers they tried on the weekend. When "I drank beer" is adequate information in response to "what did you do this weekend?", unless you are a fellow traveler.
posted by thelonius at 9:59 AM on January 4, 2018 [3 favorites]
That is a tough call! Beer people, in my experience, are worse as bores, wanting to tell you about all the different craft beers they tried on the weekend. When "I drank beer" is adequate information in response to "what did you do this weekend?", unless you are a fellow traveler.
posted by thelonius at 9:59 AM on January 4, 2018 [3 favorites]
I am a white millenial woman who mainly hangs out with white people, and one of my issues with the craft brewing scene is the assumptions men make about me. I have bought the same beer many times and been told by a stereotypically bearded white man "this is actually a good beer!" or similar. They recommend beer to me after I have already chosen it. Salespeople are not informing my husband whether or not his choice is good - they act like the two are in it together "I love this stuff!" or whatever. It is noticeable.
The other thing is that the trendy beers are getting more and more alcoholic, and I have low tolerance. I'll have two "weak" beers, thank you very much, rather than one glass of your sourest barrel aged whatever at 9.7%.
Basically the whole environment just tells me I am a guest and not a very impressive one so don't get in the way of the real action. It's like men's sports. Oh you don't want me here? That's fine, I'll be at home drinking a nice pilsner and watching Golden Girls.
Also, the instagram accounts the author describes?
"A lot of the brew staff doesn't really get to show their face out front of the brewery, so this is a peek into our stupid life back there, making dick jokes and giving a little insight," says Mike DeLancett, head brewer at Hourglass.
I mean, I go to work all day with people who don't get my hip hop references or understand my full feminist viewpoint. I have personal social media and regular non-work life because that's how work is. The fact that a behind the scenes look is described with no specifics other than "dick jokes" is pretty telling. They could use their regular social media for behind the scenes looks at brewing if that's what this was about.
There are environments where I will fight for representation but every time I read a piece like this it's just like - this space is not for me. I hope it gets better for the sake of others, though.
posted by Emmy Rae at 10:00 AM on January 4, 2018 [25 favorites]
The other thing is that the trendy beers are getting more and more alcoholic, and I have low tolerance. I'll have two "weak" beers, thank you very much, rather than one glass of your sourest barrel aged whatever at 9.7%.
Basically the whole environment just tells me I am a guest and not a very impressive one so don't get in the way of the real action. It's like men's sports. Oh you don't want me here? That's fine, I'll be at home drinking a nice pilsner and watching Golden Girls.
Also, the instagram accounts the author describes?
"A lot of the brew staff doesn't really get to show their face out front of the brewery, so this is a peek into our stupid life back there, making dick jokes and giving a little insight," says Mike DeLancett, head brewer at Hourglass.
I mean, I go to work all day with people who don't get my hip hop references or understand my full feminist viewpoint. I have personal social media and regular non-work life because that's how work is. The fact that a behind the scenes look is described with no specifics other than "dick jokes" is pretty telling. They could use their regular social media for behind the scenes looks at brewing if that's what this was about.
There are environments where I will fight for representation but every time I read a piece like this it's just like - this space is not for me. I hope it gets better for the sake of others, though.
posted by Emmy Rae at 10:00 AM on January 4, 2018 [25 favorites]
I mean, nobody wants to hang around bros except other bros. Craft beer, writ large, will have a problem with women and PoC until they get rid of the bros. All of them. Until it’s 100% unacceptable to “joke” about racist, homophobic, mysoginistic shit in these spaces, I don’t think any other “outreach” can really matter.
posted by uncleozzy at 10:10 AM on January 4, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by uncleozzy at 10:10 AM on January 4, 2018 [4 favorites]
Until it’s 100% unacceptable to “joke” about racist, homophobic, misogynistic shit in these spaces
There's still a ways to go, but this is coming a long ways as I'm seeing. Just this week, for example, down in Tacoma an up-and-coming brewery had word get out that one of the owners had engaged in some fairly homophobic responses to a negative review. Within 24 hours, I saw the beer community's immediate response slam down on them like a pile of bricks and they've since closed up their online presence & ousted the owner. (Not sure yet whether they'll close up shop entirely yet, but every collab/tap-takeover/event they had scheduled in the region which I've seen has been canceled, so.)
posted by CrystalDave at 10:22 AM on January 4, 2018 [5 favorites]
There's still a ways to go, but this is coming a long ways as I'm seeing. Just this week, for example, down in Tacoma an up-and-coming brewery had word get out that one of the owners had engaged in some fairly homophobic responses to a negative review. Within 24 hours, I saw the beer community's immediate response slam down on them like a pile of bricks and they've since closed up their online presence & ousted the owner. (Not sure yet whether they'll close up shop entirely yet, but every collab/tap-takeover/event they had scheduled in the region which I've seen has been canceled, so.)
posted by CrystalDave at 10:22 AM on January 4, 2018 [5 favorites]
It's not just craft beer.
And this has been a thing for a lot longer than millennials have been around.
posted by sixpack at 10:42 AM on January 4, 2018 [2 favorites]
And this has been a thing for a lot longer than millennials have been around.
posted by sixpack at 10:42 AM on January 4, 2018 [2 favorites]
oof, here's to hoping that your social network is more a function of where you live rather than the company you choose to keep.
Yeah, that was poorly phrased, I was specifically thinking of visiting breweries. Which, as you can probably guess from the rest of my comment, isn't something I do all that often anyway. Basically just trying to establish that I can only speak to the woman angle here.
posted by Emmy Rae at 10:42 AM on January 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
Yeah, that was poorly phrased, I was specifically thinking of visiting breweries. Which, as you can probably guess from the rest of my comment, isn't something I do all that often anyway. Basically just trying to establish that I can only speak to the woman angle here.
posted by Emmy Rae at 10:42 AM on January 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
It's still slow, but every week we're seeing swifter calls when something like Dystopian State pops up. Used to be that no one batted an eye at any of it, but now it's getting called out and it's speeding up. When I first got started in craft beer - ~96 in earnest - this would have all been laughed off as good ole boy's stuff. The primary voice would have been saying "lighten up, it's just a joke".
Not so much anymore.
The industry and the hobby have a long way to go, but there's a lot of people shouting out and there are lot of brewers who are going to step on rakes and hopefully realize what people are saying.
And yeah, there will always be the "boys" - the good time charlies are drawn to the party. They just need to learn their manners.
I think you also see a number of brewers - mostly white nerdy dudes - who don't want to be unwelcoming and who are trying to find out ways to be more inclusive without crossing the line into pandering/whitedudesplaning. (This is a big, big worry on the part of the Brewers Association and American Homebrewers Association and why they're taking less aggressive actions. N.B. I helped formed the Diversity committee for the AHA and stepped away from it because why do we need a white dude on it?)
posted by drewbage1847 at 10:54 AM on January 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
Not so much anymore.
The industry and the hobby have a long way to go, but there's a lot of people shouting out and there are lot of brewers who are going to step on rakes and hopefully realize what people are saying.
And yeah, there will always be the "boys" - the good time charlies are drawn to the party. They just need to learn their manners.
I think you also see a number of brewers - mostly white nerdy dudes - who don't want to be unwelcoming and who are trying to find out ways to be more inclusive without crossing the line into pandering/whitedudesplaning. (This is a big, big worry on the part of the Brewers Association and American Homebrewers Association and why they're taking less aggressive actions. N.B. I helped formed the Diversity committee for the AHA and stepped away from it because why do we need a white dude on it?)
posted by drewbage1847 at 10:54 AM on January 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
fairly homophobic responses to a negative review
call me a cynic but pinkwashing doesn't translate to intersectional culture shifts pretty much ever. it's valuable but it's very often a dead-end and something that only perpetuates oppression along the same line that white feminism does except specifically for white cis gays
posted by runt at 10:56 AM on January 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
call me a cynic but pinkwashing doesn't translate to intersectional culture shifts pretty much ever. it's valuable but it's very often a dead-end and something that only perpetuates oppression along the same line that white feminism does except specifically for white cis gays
posted by runt at 10:56 AM on January 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
Craft beer, Rick & Morty, DFW, beards, Moleskines, Brooklyn, video games, whatever, anything that affords the cachet of sophistication while simultaneously being easy to obtain / achieve inevitably gets infested by shitty dudes. It is really, really depressing.
posted by grumpybear69 at 11:12 AM on January 4, 2018 [19 favorites]
posted by grumpybear69 at 11:12 AM on January 4, 2018 [19 favorites]
I wonder when people will finally realise that taste is relative, especially in cases of things you eat and drink. Your favorite band, beer, yarn, hockey team, state, etc fucking sucks. So do mine.
If you don't like beer, then stay out of the thread. If you feel the need to call names (hipster, etc) then stay out of the thread.
If you like beers with shitty, offensive names, then please reconsider your priorities and stop supporting the bros. They aren't being clever, they're being jerks.
And, Kitteh is my craft beer super hero and not just because of her blog, podcasts, and love of craft beer. But also because she fights the good fight against sexism, misogyny, etc in the industry.
also, her favourite beer is from one of my favourite breweries... and I was able to share that beer last February at the brewery with her, completely by accident as we happened to be there at same time!
posted by terrapin at 11:16 AM on January 4, 2018 [10 favorites]
If you don't like beer, then stay out of the thread. If you feel the need to call names (hipster, etc) then stay out of the thread.
If you like beers with shitty, offensive names, then please reconsider your priorities and stop supporting the bros. They aren't being clever, they're being jerks.
And, Kitteh is my craft beer super hero and not just because of her blog, podcasts, and love of craft beer. But also because she fights the good fight against sexism, misogyny, etc in the industry.
also, her favourite beer is from one of my favourite breweries... and I was able to share that beer last February at the brewery with her, completely by accident as we happened to be there at same time!
posted by terrapin at 11:16 AM on January 4, 2018 [10 favorites]
The people I know who drink craft beer are all hipster millenials. Not a diss, just an observation.
This is a very local and anecdotal observation.
In my town in the Northwest I'd have to go out of my way to find a non-craft beer on tap, and some places won't carry Bud, Coors or Miller at all in bottles, though they might have a PBR, Oly or Rainier. (Actually, one local place I know has Olympia on tap for $3 a pint and it's delicious.)
Granted, I think there's three or four breweries, maybe five, plus a couple of cideries and wineries in the area, and we host a craft beer fest dedicated to unusual/wacky beer. Which... I'm not super thrilled about, say, sriracha ramen beer, but whatever, people are having fun. OTOH I bet there's a ton of sexist/gross names for some of the beers there, too.
But beer drinkers of all ages in the NW by and large drink nothing but craft or smaller beers. There's not really any reason not to because they're everywhere, generally affordable and there's usually something for everyone, and it's not all skunky mouth-punching IPAs. And thankfully the IPA craze is breaking a little and we're starting to get some neat and tasty pilsners, ales, saisons and the like.
Heck, even the local homebums and winos have good taste in beer when they can afford something better than Steel Reserve. I see them brown-bagging bombers of local tastier plonk all the time. Around here those 22-24 oz bottles are like 3-4 bucks from smaller craft brewers, and many of them (as noted up thread) are pushing 8-9% ABV which definitely puts them into economical even for drunks territory. Heck, the local deli-bodega even fills growlers, and they're super blue collar and working class.
And, well, beer is practically a staple like bread around here. Over in Seattle there's family friendly and decidedly down-market and plain/functional beer gardens like Chuck's Hop Shop where they'll have something like 50-100 taps and big screen digital menu boards, and, oh, thousands of different beers and stuff in bottles.
And the whole place basically looks like a cafeteria with a lot of basic institutional chairs and square tables and is brightly lit, not like a dark, smoke stained tavern filled with bitter old drunks drinking bottles of Bud.
Taking the kids or the dog out to one of these places to meet up with friends and grab a flight or a pint or two and relax isn't any fancier or more hipster than going to the bakery or market to pick up a decent loaf of bread, or meeting someone for lunch or something. Heck, my friend uses the Chuck's in his neighborhood as his office, often in favor of the local coffee shops.
Home craft brewing and cidering is also really common. Almost everyone I know that has a productive fruit tree in their yard makes some kind of cider out of the excess and groundfall.
posted by loquacious at 11:23 AM on January 4, 2018 [8 favorites]
This is a very local and anecdotal observation.
In my town in the Northwest I'd have to go out of my way to find a non-craft beer on tap, and some places won't carry Bud, Coors or Miller at all in bottles, though they might have a PBR, Oly or Rainier. (Actually, one local place I know has Olympia on tap for $3 a pint and it's delicious.)
Granted, I think there's three or four breweries, maybe five, plus a couple of cideries and wineries in the area, and we host a craft beer fest dedicated to unusual/wacky beer. Which... I'm not super thrilled about, say, sriracha ramen beer, but whatever, people are having fun. OTOH I bet there's a ton of sexist/gross names for some of the beers there, too.
But beer drinkers of all ages in the NW by and large drink nothing but craft or smaller beers. There's not really any reason not to because they're everywhere, generally affordable and there's usually something for everyone, and it's not all skunky mouth-punching IPAs. And thankfully the IPA craze is breaking a little and we're starting to get some neat and tasty pilsners, ales, saisons and the like.
Heck, even the local homebums and winos have good taste in beer when they can afford something better than Steel Reserve. I see them brown-bagging bombers of local tastier plonk all the time. Around here those 22-24 oz bottles are like 3-4 bucks from smaller craft brewers, and many of them (as noted up thread) are pushing 8-9% ABV which definitely puts them into economical even for drunks territory. Heck, the local deli-bodega even fills growlers, and they're super blue collar and working class.
And, well, beer is practically a staple like bread around here. Over in Seattle there's family friendly and decidedly down-market and plain/functional beer gardens like Chuck's Hop Shop where they'll have something like 50-100 taps and big screen digital menu boards, and, oh, thousands of different beers and stuff in bottles.
And the whole place basically looks like a cafeteria with a lot of basic institutional chairs and square tables and is brightly lit, not like a dark, smoke stained tavern filled with bitter old drunks drinking bottles of Bud.
Taking the kids or the dog out to one of these places to meet up with friends and grab a flight or a pint or two and relax isn't any fancier or more hipster than going to the bakery or market to pick up a decent loaf of bread, or meeting someone for lunch or something. Heck, my friend uses the Chuck's in his neighborhood as his office, often in favor of the local coffee shops.
Home craft brewing and cidering is also really common. Almost everyone I know that has a productive fruit tree in their yard makes some kind of cider out of the excess and groundfall.
posted by loquacious at 11:23 AM on January 4, 2018 [8 favorites]
Even though I don't have kids, I really do enjoy breweries that have nice beer gardens so your family can hang out with other families if you want. Also, dog-friendly always wins in my book.
I truly don't think craft beer is elitist, but I can see how that impression is given. But not all breweries are alike, tbh, and some of the better ones are cozy, kind, and not willing to give a space to dudebros. Stone City Ales, my neighbourhood brewery, is very neighbourhoody and family-friendly--it gets louder after dark when the students roll in for beers and food--and I dig seeing folks from all walks of life in that place on an idle afternoon.
posted by Kitteh at 11:30 AM on January 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
I truly don't think craft beer is elitist, but I can see how that impression is given. But not all breweries are alike, tbh, and some of the better ones are cozy, kind, and not willing to give a space to dudebros. Stone City Ales, my neighbourhood brewery, is very neighbourhoody and family-friendly--it gets louder after dark when the students roll in for beers and food--and I dig seeing folks from all walks of life in that place on an idle afternoon.
posted by Kitteh at 11:30 AM on January 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
I really, really appreciate the note Kiser added after some of the article's targets got in touch to attempt damage control:
And this article isn't an examination of the particular nuances and personal motivations of the people involved. It's an examination of the culture they contributed to, passively or aggressively, intentionally or accidentally, and how that contributes to a massive diversity problem in the beer industry. In other words, we are not interested in an at-length apologia for this culture. We're instead focused on the problems it creates for the people in their communities—customers and employees alike.
That's a fabulous response to but-look-into-my-heart weaselry. I will remember it.
posted by helpthebear at 11:36 AM on January 4, 2018 [21 favorites]
And this article isn't an examination of the particular nuances and personal motivations of the people involved. It's an examination of the culture they contributed to, passively or aggressively, intentionally or accidentally, and how that contributes to a massive diversity problem in the beer industry. In other words, we are not interested in an at-length apologia for this culture. We're instead focused on the problems it creates for the people in their communities—customers and employees alike.
That's a fabulous response to but-look-into-my-heart weaselry. I will remember it.
posted by helpthebear at 11:36 AM on January 4, 2018 [21 favorites]
If you don't like beer, then stay out of the thread.
I don't like beer. I don't drink beer. However, as someone who lives as a female in an area where craft brew is common, this thread is relevant to my interests. It is potentially relevant to my safety - guys who are fine with objectified women as sex objects on their advertising are often pushy about insisting that real-life women act like the ones in their fantasies.
I want the Overton window moved, and part of that is changing what's acceptable in public displays. I want a more diverse and less dudebroey craft brew culture because that makes for a safer and more pleasant culture for me.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 11:38 AM on January 4, 2018 [21 favorites]
I don't like beer. I don't drink beer. However, as someone who lives as a female in an area where craft brew is common, this thread is relevant to my interests. It is potentially relevant to my safety - guys who are fine with objectified women as sex objects on their advertising are often pushy about insisting that real-life women act like the ones in their fantasies.
I want the Overton window moved, and part of that is changing what's acceptable in public displays. I want a more diverse and less dudebroey craft brew culture because that makes for a safer and more pleasant culture for me.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 11:38 AM on January 4, 2018 [21 favorites]
'Juicy Ass'
Eww. Swamp Butt? Wet Donkey?
Free marketing suggestion for brewers: Avoid body parts in names. Especially avoid any synonym for the word "moist" in conjunction with any kind of body part, gendered or not. And strongly consider avoiding names that can be both body parts and farm animals.
I know this isn't a solution at all but my inner prankster thinks someone should release a series of really unpleasantly male-objectifying named beers, say, Whiskey Dick, Pushin' Rope, Fuzzy Apricot and other gross or demeaning dick joke crap.
And then maybe as an extra twist of the knife make all of the objectifyingly masculine named beers inexplicably over the top stereotypically feminine-ish or floral or just florid in taste, or whatever it is that sexist dudebros hate in a beer.
No, no, I didn't say it was a good idea. This kind of attention almost always backfires.
posted by loquacious at 11:45 AM on January 4, 2018 [2 favorites]
Eww. Swamp Butt? Wet Donkey?
Free marketing suggestion for brewers: Avoid body parts in names. Especially avoid any synonym for the word "moist" in conjunction with any kind of body part, gendered or not. And strongly consider avoiding names that can be both body parts and farm animals.
I know this isn't a solution at all but my inner prankster thinks someone should release a series of really unpleasantly male-objectifying named beers, say, Whiskey Dick, Pushin' Rope, Fuzzy Apricot and other gross or demeaning dick joke crap.
And then maybe as an extra twist of the knife make all of the objectifyingly masculine named beers inexplicably over the top stereotypically feminine-ish or floral or just florid in taste, or whatever it is that sexist dudebros hate in a beer.
No, no, I didn't say it was a good idea. This kind of attention almost always backfires.
posted by loquacious at 11:45 AM on January 4, 2018 [2 favorites]
A huge number of craft beer names are just cringey. Moose Drool? Fascist Pig? Ho ho ho, how funny is that LOLZ.
posted by jeff-o-matic at 11:51 AM on January 4, 2018
posted by jeff-o-matic at 11:51 AM on January 4, 2018
whatever it is that sexist dudebros hate in a beer
Widely available.
posted by uncleozzy at 11:57 AM on January 4, 2018 [4 favorites]
Widely available.
posted by uncleozzy at 11:57 AM on January 4, 2018 [4 favorites]
Whiskey Dick, Pushin' Rope, Fuzzy Apricot
I suspect that this would backfire as a "flip it around on the men" joke. Sort of a Springtime For Hitler thing. If they existed, they would just add a few more names to the enormous stack of off-color-slash-cheeky beer names.
posted by theorique at 12:04 PM on January 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
I suspect that this would backfire as a "flip it around on the men" joke. Sort of a Springtime For Hitler thing. If they existed, they would just add a few more names to the enormous stack of off-color-slash-cheeky beer names.
posted by theorique at 12:04 PM on January 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
If you don't like beer, then stay out of the thread.
but what if you like social justice causes that involve people you know and the topic also adds a dynamic to many of your day-to-day social interactions
I mean, just bc I'm not rich doesn't mean I can't talk about the excessiveness of owning a Ferrari right? or are only rich people and enthusiasts allowed to critique their own disposable-income-dependent subcultures
posted by runt at 12:19 PM on January 4, 2018 [3 favorites]
but what if you like social justice causes that involve people you know and the topic also adds a dynamic to many of your day-to-day social interactions
I mean, just bc I'm not rich doesn't mean I can't talk about the excessiveness of owning a Ferrari right? or are only rich people and enthusiasts allowed to critique their own disposable-income-dependent subcultures
posted by runt at 12:19 PM on January 4, 2018 [3 favorites]
Wait, what's sexist about Moose Drool? Or are you just saying it's a bad beer name in general?
posted by Grither at 12:19 PM on January 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by Grither at 12:19 PM on January 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
This is a very local and anecdotal observation.
Is that supposed to refer to yours or St. Alia's? Because if you were referring to the latter, you've satired yourself.
However, as someone who lives as a female in an area where craft brew is common, this thread is relevant to my interests.
Thanks for saying this. I was going to. You don't have to like beer to participate in a discussion that isn't about taste, but about the culture around the creation and enjoyment of it.
posted by cui bono at 12:21 PM on January 4, 2018
Is that supposed to refer to yours or St. Alia's? Because if you were referring to the latter, you've satired yourself.
However, as someone who lives as a female in an area where craft brew is common, this thread is relevant to my interests.
Thanks for saying this. I was going to. You don't have to like beer to participate in a discussion that isn't about taste, but about the culture around the creation and enjoyment of it.
posted by cui bono at 12:21 PM on January 4, 2018
The other thing is that the trendy beers are getting more and more alcoholic
Interesting. I had thought that the trend was away from this, as of last year or so, and towards "session" styles that clock in around 5-ish ABV. I guess maybe the pendulum is swinging back already?
It seemed like the trend towards sours has largely run its course, or at least made as much inroads into the market as it's likely to do (I think there are just many people who are never going to enjoy sours, myself among them, at least more than a half-pint or so's worth).
I like beer, and I like well-crafted beer, but I find "craft beer culture" to be sort of obnoxious, though mostly in the way other subcultures based around conspicuous consumerism are. There's just something that rubs me the wrong way about it, and in particular the way certain 'limited releases' are fetishized and sought after. OTOH, I find homebrewers to be more bearable, perhaps just because someone talking about something they made is more interesting than someone talking about something they bought. But there's a whole contesting/competitive angle to homebrew, particularly as it pertains to clubs, that I've never really gotten into so I'm not sure what that's like.
That's orthogonal to the shitty sexism angle, which is crappy wherever it occurs. Luckily here in the DC area there are a bunch of cool breweries, including Denizens Brewing (which was originally going to be named "Citizens Brewing", but was changed last-minute due to trademark drama with another local brewery) which was co-founded by two women, at least in part because they felt there was an open niche due to the industry's failure to market craft beer to women.
posted by Kadin2048 at 12:30 PM on January 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
Interesting. I had thought that the trend was away from this, as of last year or so, and towards "session" styles that clock in around 5-ish ABV. I guess maybe the pendulum is swinging back already?
It seemed like the trend towards sours has largely run its course, or at least made as much inroads into the market as it's likely to do (I think there are just many people who are never going to enjoy sours, myself among them, at least more than a half-pint or so's worth).
I like beer, and I like well-crafted beer, but I find "craft beer culture" to be sort of obnoxious, though mostly in the way other subcultures based around conspicuous consumerism are. There's just something that rubs me the wrong way about it, and in particular the way certain 'limited releases' are fetishized and sought after. OTOH, I find homebrewers to be more bearable, perhaps just because someone talking about something they made is more interesting than someone talking about something they bought. But there's a whole contesting/competitive angle to homebrew, particularly as it pertains to clubs, that I've never really gotten into so I'm not sure what that's like.
That's orthogonal to the shitty sexism angle, which is crappy wherever it occurs. Luckily here in the DC area there are a bunch of cool breweries, including Denizens Brewing (which was originally going to be named "Citizens Brewing", but was changed last-minute due to trademark drama with another local brewery) which was co-founded by two women, at least in part because they felt there was an open niche due to the industry's failure to market craft beer to women.
posted by Kadin2048 at 12:30 PM on January 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
Interesting. I had thought that the trend was away from this, as of last year or so, and towards "session" styles that clock in around 5-ish ABV. I guess maybe the pendulum is swinging back already?
Sessions are still in style, but you're never going to quite rid of brewers of wanting to make high gravs for special release or in-house pours. Right now the trend seems to be reclaiming lagers and pilsners. Milkshake IPAs will be still be A Thing this summer as they were A Thing last summer. My advice to beer lovers is that yes, nabbing a special bottle can be nice, but drinking beer is more important than waiting in a ridiculously long line. Also, you will likely see more unusual ingredients and some brewers really exploring different yeasts (Champagne yeast, anyone?).
posted by Kitteh at 12:39 PM on January 4, 2018 [3 favorites]
Sessions are still in style, but you're never going to quite rid of brewers of wanting to make high gravs for special release or in-house pours. Right now the trend seems to be reclaiming lagers and pilsners. Milkshake IPAs will be still be A Thing this summer as they were A Thing last summer. My advice to beer lovers is that yes, nabbing a special bottle can be nice, but drinking beer is more important than waiting in a ridiculously long line. Also, you will likely see more unusual ingredients and some brewers really exploring different yeasts (Champagne yeast, anyone?).
posted by Kitteh at 12:39 PM on January 4, 2018 [3 favorites]
For those who would like to like beer, it depends on what kind of tastes you like. I'm going to speak in terms of color here and make huge generalizations that y'all can feel free to mock.
Hearty and hefty? Dark brews/stouts (think Guinness).
Light and ethereal? White beers.
Lightly rich? This is the well-known blonde beer. They can range from bland to bitter to sweet to loads of things, a lot like white wines can.
Sweet with a tang? Red/amber beers. There are several in Europe. I like them because they're easy to drink, but my favorite when I want a treat are the meaty-spicy stouts. (If curious, why yes, I do also love Burgundy reds, Oregon pinot noirs, and Laphroaig.)
Good beers won't have the weird stale beer aftertaste that cheap mass-produced ones do. For me the hardest is that aftertaste; I can't drink a lot of the big name blonde beers because of it.
Go to a brewery that has a wide range of choice, tell them what sort of tastes you like and they should be able to give you something fun to try!
posted by fraula at 12:43 PM on January 4, 2018 [7 favorites]
Hearty and hefty? Dark brews/stouts (think Guinness).
Light and ethereal? White beers.
Lightly rich? This is the well-known blonde beer. They can range from bland to bitter to sweet to loads of things, a lot like white wines can.
Sweet with a tang? Red/amber beers. There are several in Europe. I like them because they're easy to drink, but my favorite when I want a treat are the meaty-spicy stouts. (If curious, why yes, I do also love Burgundy reds, Oregon pinot noirs, and Laphroaig.)
Good beers won't have the weird stale beer aftertaste that cheap mass-produced ones do. For me the hardest is that aftertaste; I can't drink a lot of the big name blonde beers because of it.
Go to a brewery that has a wide range of choice, tell them what sort of tastes you like and they should be able to give you something fun to try!
posted by fraula at 12:43 PM on January 4, 2018 [7 favorites]
Oh god I hope not - champagne yeast is terrible in beer. blargh.
I also wish brewers would aim for less sweet beers, but that's because I have that obsession with dry final gravities and that's my taste.
I think this year I'm going to try and push to see if I can't make a beer that captures all those softer fruit components of hops but with West Coast clarity.
And n'thing the puzzlement over waiting in line, but I know why breweries do it - one friend clears more than $40k over the dock every time he does a can release. Hard for a small business to turn their nose up at that.
posted by drewbage1847 at 12:44 PM on January 4, 2018
I also wish brewers would aim for less sweet beers, but that's because I have that obsession with dry final gravities and that's my taste.
I think this year I'm going to try and push to see if I can't make a beer that captures all those softer fruit components of hops but with West Coast clarity.
And n'thing the puzzlement over waiting in line, but I know why breweries do it - one friend clears more than $40k over the dock every time he does a can release. Hard for a small business to turn their nose up at that.
posted by drewbage1847 at 12:44 PM on January 4, 2018
Re. the discussion about beer names, as ever, a friendly reminder that not all people with dicks are men, and making "lol dicks" jokes as a proxy for "lol men" often makes trans women and other non-male dick-havers feel crummy.
posted by ITheCosmos at 12:56 PM on January 4, 2018 [8 favorites]
posted by ITheCosmos at 12:56 PM on January 4, 2018 [8 favorites]
Right now I'm waiting for some Bay Area VCbro to come out with a craft beer advertising how it was made with "Raw Water". It's inevitable.
posted by happyroach at 1:06 PM on January 4, 2018
posted by happyroach at 1:06 PM on January 4, 2018
Intriguingly, in the world of homebrew (American) whiskey, starting off with rainwater is a thing. Some people believe very strongly it influences the taste, presumably because of the pH and how it differs from groundwater.
posted by Kadin2048 at 1:13 PM on January 4, 2018
posted by Kadin2048 at 1:13 PM on January 4, 2018
A huge number of craft beer names are just cringey. Moose Drool? Fascist Pig? Ho ho ho, how funny is that LOLZ.
My overall impression (as someone who got all their drinking done in their 20s and now drinks about 3 beers a year) is that the whole thing often seems just incredibly juvenile. A bunch of grown men who are like “look I’m a big boy now! I can drink! Let me tell you all about what I’m drinking right now! It has a funny name, look! LOL!”
posted by Jimbob at 1:31 PM on January 4, 2018 [6 favorites]
My overall impression (as someone who got all their drinking done in their 20s and now drinks about 3 beers a year) is that the whole thing often seems just incredibly juvenile. A bunch of grown men who are like “look I’m a big boy now! I can drink! Let me tell you all about what I’m drinking right now! It has a funny name, look! LOL!”
posted by Jimbob at 1:31 PM on January 4, 2018 [6 favorites]
Right now I'm waiting for some Bay Area VCbro to come out with a craft beer advertising how it was made with "Raw Water". It's inevitable.
Some scrappy hipsters just south of Boulder, Colorado have already made it happen.
posted by sideshow at 1:34 PM on January 4, 2018 [4 favorites]
Some scrappy hipsters just south of Boulder, Colorado have already made it happen.
posted by sideshow at 1:34 PM on January 4, 2018 [4 favorites]
Wait, what's sexist about Moose Drool?
Courtesy of Urban Dictionary:
"Moose Drool: The combination of sweat, fumunda cheese and vaginal secretions in the area of female genitalia"
Imagine the life of unfettered misogyny you would have to lead where no one, from conception of the name to releasing the product, would ever manage to talk you out of it. Imagine how few of them even tried.
posted by a fiendish thingy at 1:50 PM on January 4, 2018 [4 favorites]
Courtesy of Urban Dictionary:
"Moose Drool: The combination of sweat, fumunda cheese and vaginal secretions in the area of female genitalia"
Imagine the life of unfettered misogyny you would have to lead where no one, from conception of the name to releasing the product, would ever manage to talk you out of it. Imagine how few of them even tried.
posted by a fiendish thingy at 1:50 PM on January 4, 2018 [4 favorites]
That Urban Dictionary "definition" was created on October 25, 2017 and is on the second page of results for "moose drool" if you exclude the terms "beer" and "ale." The beer itself has been around since 2001. Looking at their website, none of the Big Sky beers have even remotely suggestive names or labels.
posted by grumpybear69 at 2:20 PM on January 4, 2018 [14 favorites]
posted by grumpybear69 at 2:20 PM on January 4, 2018 [14 favorites]
One of the things I really like (liked) about the craft beer movement is all the local cool bars that do pours of any size, so you can try 5 oz of that highly alcoholic beer if you are a light-weight, or pacing yourself.
Then I started getting a migraine from *any* amount of alcohol and had to stop completely. Boo.
posted by Squeak Attack at 3:02 PM on January 4, 2018
Then I started getting a migraine from *any* amount of alcohol and had to stop completely. Boo.
posted by Squeak Attack at 3:02 PM on January 4, 2018
In retrospect, it's interesting that I never encountered misogyny back in my homebrewing days (I'm white, so I can't speak to that). I was 19 and into making the stoutest stouts I could bottle. I never was hassled, never felt to feel like I didn't belong in the store where I bought my supplies.
posted by The corpse in the library at 3:19 PM on January 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by The corpse in the library at 3:19 PM on January 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
> But beer drinkers of all ages in the NW by and large drink nothing but craft or smaller beers
Everything I see on-line says it's either Blue Moon or Bud Light.
posted by The corpse in the library at 3:32 PM on January 4, 2018
Everything I see on-line says it's either Blue Moon or Bud Light.
posted by The corpse in the library at 3:32 PM on January 4, 2018
Yeah, as much attention as craft beer gets, most people are still drinking macro-brews.
posted by octothorpe at 3:53 PM on January 4, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 3:53 PM on January 4, 2018 [2 favorites]
The most famous of our brands, Moose Drool, came out of that process. Bjorn and Brad were looking at Jane’s painting of a moose lifting his head from a pond with water streaming off of his muzzle. Neal walked past, and seeing the painting for the first time immediately suggested “it’s a moose, he’s drooling, let’s call it moose drool.”
posted by atoxyl at 3:58 PM on January 4, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by atoxyl at 3:58 PM on January 4, 2018 [2 favorites]
"Moose Drool" is a fairly gross name, whether it's sexist or not.
*polishes off the last bottle of Otter Bile*
posted by The Underpants Monster at 4:07 PM on January 4, 2018
*polishes off the last bottle of Otter Bile*
posted by The Underpants Monster at 4:07 PM on January 4, 2018
"The Love of Beer" is a pretty decent independent film put together about women in the beer industry, it's been a while so I've not seen where the women featured there are now, but not a bad starting point for folks looking to give money to a more diverse background of beer makers.
> In my town in the Northwest I'd have to go out of my way to find a non-craft beer on tap, and some places won't carry Bud, Coors or Miller at all in bottles, though they might have a PBR, Oly or Rainier.
Last time in PT, I was able to buy cases of Miller High Life along with high end sake in the same natural grocer corner market. For all the hipsters and localness of PacNW, beer you can get a case of for less than 15 or 20 dollars still has legs.
> But beer drinkers of all ages in the NW by and large drink nothing but craft or smaller beers.
RedHook is owned as part of Craft Beer Alliance, which is 32% owned by InBev. That includes Widmer, Kona, Omission, and Square Mile Ciders. Elysian famously sold out to AB also.
There are many craft labels being bought up to address the market, but considering that what you see on the shelves is almost entirely based on who owns the trucks that deliver the beer to the store, you're gonna see Bud and Miller everywhere. (Part of the Goose Island sale to AB/InBev by the CBA was that they also got a very nice price on distribution costs through AB/InBev's partners as a result for their own beers).
posted by mrzarquon at 4:09 PM on January 4, 2018 [2 favorites]
> In my town in the Northwest I'd have to go out of my way to find a non-craft beer on tap, and some places won't carry Bud, Coors or Miller at all in bottles, though they might have a PBR, Oly or Rainier.
Last time in PT, I was able to buy cases of Miller High Life along with high end sake in the same natural grocer corner market. For all the hipsters and localness of PacNW, beer you can get a case of for less than 15 or 20 dollars still has legs.
> But beer drinkers of all ages in the NW by and large drink nothing but craft or smaller beers.
RedHook is owned as part of Craft Beer Alliance, which is 32% owned by InBev. That includes Widmer, Kona, Omission, and Square Mile Ciders. Elysian famously sold out to AB also.
There are many craft labels being bought up to address the market, but considering that what you see on the shelves is almost entirely based on who owns the trucks that deliver the beer to the store, you're gonna see Bud and Miller everywhere. (Part of the Goose Island sale to AB/InBev by the CBA was that they also got a very nice price on distribution costs through AB/InBev's partners as a result for their own beers).
posted by mrzarquon at 4:09 PM on January 4, 2018 [2 favorites]
My overall impression (as someone who got all their drinking done in their 20s and now drinks about 3 beers a year) is that the whole thing often seems just incredibly juvenile.Last time I was back in San Diego a friend was taking me around to some of the breweries which opened since I left. There was one which had a number of good beers but I’ve ended up leaving them off of my recommendations for east coast friends visiting SD because the names & art styles were seemed like they’d been outsourced to some middle-school boys, and not the mature ones.
posted by adamsc at 6:08 PM on January 4, 2018
And thankfully the IPA craze is breaking a little
Hopefully the next big trend (with proper non-sexist names, of course) will be Scotch ales. Mmmmmmmm...
posted by Greg_Ace at 7:58 PM on January 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
Hopefully the next big trend (with proper non-sexist names, of course) will be Scotch ales. Mmmmmmmm...
posted by Greg_Ace at 7:58 PM on January 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
Constantly puzzled by these craft beer threads on metafilter. This dudebro misogyny thing doesn't seem to permeate the New Zealand and Australia scene, or at least not to the same extent.
posted by 1head2arms2legs at 2:00 AM on January 5, 2018
posted by 1head2arms2legs at 2:00 AM on January 5, 2018
Hmmm... What is Belching Beaver?
They made a damn good nitro milk stout that I got in my Craft Beer Advent calendar this year. I didn't see anything prurient about it; the illustration on my bottle was a cartoon beaver wearing a toque, smiling happily.
posted by Kitteh at 5:10 AM on January 5, 2018
They made a damn good nitro milk stout that I got in my Craft Beer Advent calendar this year. I didn't see anything prurient about it; the illustration on my bottle was a cartoon beaver wearing a toque, smiling happily.
posted by Kitteh at 5:10 AM on January 5, 2018
Kitteh: they’ve apparently changed it. They claim it wasn’t intended that way but the impression wasn’t exactly subtle in the tasting room, especially on a poster for a beer with a name like “me so honey”.
posted by adamsc at 5:39 AM on January 5, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by adamsc at 5:39 AM on January 5, 2018 [1 favorite]
Constantly puzzled by these craft beer threads on metafilter. This dudebro misogyny thing doesn't seem to permeate the New Zealand and Australia scene, or at least not to the same extent.
I generally avoid beer festivals these days, but the last one I went to, in Dublin, IRE, no less, was an absolute joy. It was friendly, safe, well attended by people all sorts (which is saying something in Ireland) had plenty of places to sit and chat quietly or get up and dance, lots of good food, you know all the things that make beer fun. Every brewer I met was kind and sincerely asking me questions about the US beer scene (Which I told them not to worry about, they had a perfectly wonderful scene right here, and to keep doing your own thing, the Irish tradition of session beers added to the ethos of craft has produced some wonderous ideas which I have stolen and recreated in my basement, but I digress...). When I came back to the US, I went to one beer event and left after ten minutes, in disgust. The ego, the chest thumping one-upsmanship, the way women were treated as decoration, not participants, overpriced nonsense hype, and the lemming-like celebration thereof, it was the beginning of the end of my love for the craft beer scene. I don't know what it is in the water here that makes it so bad in places. But I envy the places that can do it well, and a large number of those places are sadly elsewhere.
Oh well, I think I'm gonna take some time to brew today. Then have a homebrew and relax with the pups, maybe call a friend or two over. Seems like it might be that kind of year.
posted by 1f2frfbf at 5:58 AM on January 5, 2018 [3 favorites]
I generally avoid beer festivals these days, but the last one I went to, in Dublin, IRE, no less, was an absolute joy. It was friendly, safe, well attended by people all sorts (which is saying something in Ireland) had plenty of places to sit and chat quietly or get up and dance, lots of good food, you know all the things that make beer fun. Every brewer I met was kind and sincerely asking me questions about the US beer scene (Which I told them not to worry about, they had a perfectly wonderful scene right here, and to keep doing your own thing, the Irish tradition of session beers added to the ethos of craft has produced some wonderous ideas which I have stolen and recreated in my basement, but I digress...). When I came back to the US, I went to one beer event and left after ten minutes, in disgust. The ego, the chest thumping one-upsmanship, the way women were treated as decoration, not participants, overpriced nonsense hype, and the lemming-like celebration thereof, it was the beginning of the end of my love for the craft beer scene. I don't know what it is in the water here that makes it so bad in places. But I envy the places that can do it well, and a large number of those places are sadly elsewhere.
Oh well, I think I'm gonna take some time to brew today. Then have a homebrew and relax with the pups, maybe call a friend or two over. Seems like it might be that kind of year.
posted by 1f2frfbf at 5:58 AM on January 5, 2018 [3 favorites]
One more thing: I think what disheartens me so much about all this is the way that supposed craft beer enthusiasts will turn en masse on a brewery for violating certain nebulous ethical standards (Wicked Weed, anyone? How about the depressing trend of fighting trademark battles in the public sphere?) but just hand-wave away actual socially and ethically alienating things with a mere, "Lulz, right guys?" It's like protesting carrying a poster that says, "We Demand That You Meet Our Standards!" All the while whispering to the fellow marchers: "It's okay, they're really really low and insignificant ones, you all can still misbehave however you want."
posted by 1f2frfbf at 6:13 AM on January 5, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by 1f2frfbf at 6:13 AM on January 5, 2018 [4 favorites]
Kitteh: they’ve apparently changed it. They claim it wasn’t intended that way but the impression wasn’t exactly subtle in the tasting room, especially on a poster for a beer with a name like “me so honey”.
Ohhh. I see. Thanks for telling me!
And yes, 1f2frfbf, I'm also really tired of the dudebro anger about when breweries get bought--as I like to say, "listen, if someone rolled up in my backyard with a truckload of enough money to take care of me and my family for the rest of my life, you're goddamn right, I'm taking that money, and you're a liar if you say you wouldn't too"--and promote this "purity" culture. This is actually taking the fun out of one of the most fun things for me: drinking beer.
posted by Kitteh at 6:26 AM on January 5, 2018 [4 favorites]
Ohhh. I see. Thanks for telling me!
And yes, 1f2frfbf, I'm also really tired of the dudebro anger about when breweries get bought--as I like to say, "listen, if someone rolled up in my backyard with a truckload of enough money to take care of me and my family for the rest of my life, you're goddamn right, I'm taking that money, and you're a liar if you say you wouldn't too"--and promote this "purity" culture. This is actually taking the fun out of one of the most fun things for me: drinking beer.
posted by Kitteh at 6:26 AM on January 5, 2018 [4 favorites]
Did anyone read this article? It's actually about trying to get more PoC into craft beer (we've been around the sexist beer name thing, which is improving actually if not too slowly, as well as the lol hipsters thing, and the why don't brewers make more of this style because fuck your IPA thing, and the fuck AB InBev thing, like eight billion times here already). The question of trying to get more PoC into craft beer and the white problem in craft beer is pretty interesting and a difficult thing to solve, as the article points out, especially when the craft beer industry has been a major driver in white-ifying traditionally black neighborhoods, a classic case of white entrepreneurs taking advantage of cheap black inner city real estate, pushing black people further away from up and coming economic centers and further disenfranchising them. Paired with the sadly ubiquitous socio-racial issues in alcohol consumption and branding (ever wondered why the only sub $100 liquors in a locked case or behind the counter at a liquor store are Hennessey and Courvoisier? It's fucked up! Beer isn't the only booze or consumable with a white problem, but its insane growth and encroachment on market share makes it an especially apt case study), craft beer has a huge white problem that is arguably much bigger than its men problem (and in fact, the last big brew fest I went to, I made it a point to actually count the number of black people there: 2. 2 black people, out of several thousand. The gender balance, on the other hand, was much more equitable).
I love craft beer so much, and I'm one of those dudes who will sometimes wait in stupidly long lines or pay stupid prices for a barrel aged crazy something, and I think the craft beer industry would be way more interesting if we could get more PoC involved as lovers and brewers. How to do that is a challenge but I'm really glad to see there is at least recognition of the problem and some nascent initiatives to try and rectify the problem. Beer is a wonderful way to bring people together and to make money, and it sucks that white people have totally cornered the market/bar.
posted by Lutoslawski at 8:34 AM on January 5, 2018 [4 favorites]
I love craft beer so much, and I'm one of those dudes who will sometimes wait in stupidly long lines or pay stupid prices for a barrel aged crazy something, and I think the craft beer industry would be way more interesting if we could get more PoC involved as lovers and brewers. How to do that is a challenge but I'm really glad to see there is at least recognition of the problem and some nascent initiatives to try and rectify the problem. Beer is a wonderful way to bring people together and to make money, and it sucks that white people have totally cornered the market/bar.
posted by Lutoslawski at 8:34 AM on January 5, 2018 [4 favorites]
also lowering the price of your beer such that it isn't something that only people who make 50k a year can drink for fun
This is a catch 22 - I know a few brewers, and the craft ones aren't extravagantly wealthy or making 50k a year themselves. Beer production has a huge upfront cost (tons of equipment and a large space to brew) and very significant costs in production (ingredients, water and waste treatment, and shipping to bars/bottling) that mean that volume is the only way to drive price down...and volume and craft are not synonymous.
For a craft brewer, generally the only way to take their $8 beer and make it $6 is to pay the people who produce it less or use worse ingredients, neither of which help the PoC or women who work or consume in the industry. The reality is that a $4 Coors Light at a bar has set an unrealistic expectation for what beer costs to produce much of which happens on the backs of low-wage earners domestically and abroad.
Myself, I'd rather one beer per session knowing everyone got paid fairly than three cheaper beers knowing what it takes to get it that way.
posted by notorious medium at 10:38 AM on January 5, 2018 [5 favorites]
This is a catch 22 - I know a few brewers, and the craft ones aren't extravagantly wealthy or making 50k a year themselves. Beer production has a huge upfront cost (tons of equipment and a large space to brew) and very significant costs in production (ingredients, water and waste treatment, and shipping to bars/bottling) that mean that volume is the only way to drive price down...and volume and craft are not synonymous.
For a craft brewer, generally the only way to take their $8 beer and make it $6 is to pay the people who produce it less or use worse ingredients, neither of which help the PoC or women who work or consume in the industry. The reality is that a $4 Coors Light at a bar has set an unrealistic expectation for what beer costs to produce much of which happens on the backs of low-wage earners domestically and abroad.
Myself, I'd rather one beer per session knowing everyone got paid fairly than three cheaper beers knowing what it takes to get it that way.
posted by notorious medium at 10:38 AM on January 5, 2018 [5 favorites]
Great article, thanks MartinWisse.
To add to Itaxpica's comment about the Brewminaries club (thank you for that Itaxpica, I'm gonna check it out!) here's some breweries/cideries to support in the NYC area if you like seeing more non-white dudes in this industry...or if you just like delicious booze:
* Katarina Martinez at Lineup Brewery. I had one of her beers (pretty sure it was the IPA "Notorious," because there was an amusing story about it previously being named "Beyonce" and them getting a cease and desist from the lawyers...) at a craft beer fair, so my memory is hazy...but I recall noting that it was pretty tasty.
* The very recently opened Brooklyn Cider House in Bushwick, run by Peter Yi, Susan Yi and Lindsey Storm. I went there a week after they opened with a group of folks, and we ended up talking with Peter at our table for a while and he generously hooked us up with a complimentary "cider catching..." which Lindsey showed me how to do. They were both super cool. And the cider is great.
* And of course there is the much-lauded Garrett Oliver of Brooklyn Brewery. They have a really amazing taproom which is both a great deal and showcases some truly amazing beers which aren't generally sold outside of the brewery. Highly recommended!
Hopefully I'm missing a lot of people and companies, I'd like to think that if anywhere could have a diverse beer scene it could be NYC...
posted by dubitable at 4:28 PM on January 5, 2018 [1 favorite]
To add to Itaxpica's comment about the Brewminaries club (thank you for that Itaxpica, I'm gonna check it out!) here's some breweries/cideries to support in the NYC area if you like seeing more non-white dudes in this industry...or if you just like delicious booze:
* Katarina Martinez at Lineup Brewery. I had one of her beers (pretty sure it was the IPA "Notorious," because there was an amusing story about it previously being named "Beyonce" and them getting a cease and desist from the lawyers...) at a craft beer fair, so my memory is hazy...but I recall noting that it was pretty tasty.
* The very recently opened Brooklyn Cider House in Bushwick, run by Peter Yi, Susan Yi and Lindsey Storm. I went there a week after they opened with a group of folks, and we ended up talking with Peter at our table for a while and he generously hooked us up with a complimentary "cider catching..." which Lindsey showed me how to do. They were both super cool. And the cider is great.
* And of course there is the much-lauded Garrett Oliver of Brooklyn Brewery. They have a really amazing taproom which is both a great deal and showcases some truly amazing beers which aren't generally sold outside of the brewery. Highly recommended!
Hopefully I'm missing a lot of people and companies, I'd like to think that if anywhere could have a diverse beer scene it could be NYC...
posted by dubitable at 4:28 PM on January 5, 2018 [1 favorite]
Craft beer, Rick & Morty, DFW, beards, Moleskines, Brooklyn, video games, whatever, anything that affords the cachet of sophistication while simultaneously being easy to obtain / achieve inevitably gets infested by shitty dudes. It is really, really depressing.
How did Brooklyn get in that list?
Have you seen what the rents are like here?
Also, seriously, there is a lot of Brooklyn outside of Williamsburg/Greenpoint and Park Slope...FFS there are two Chinatowns (at least?) just in Brooklyn.
I may have taken that comment a bit too seriously
posted by dubitable at 4:39 PM on January 5, 2018
How did Brooklyn get in that list?
Have you seen what the rents are like here?
Also, seriously, there is a lot of Brooklyn outside of Williamsburg/Greenpoint and Park Slope...FFS there are two Chinatowns (at least?) just in Brooklyn.
I may have taken that comment a bit too seriously
posted by dubitable at 4:39 PM on January 5, 2018
Last time in PT, I was able to buy cases of Miller High Life along with high end sake in the same natural grocer corner market. For all the hipsters and localness of PacNW, beer you can get a case of for less than 15 or 20 dollars still has legs.
Oh sure, I'm not saying you can't get it at all, nor that people don't drink it. I'm just trying to point out that in some places "craft" or small beers or whatever aren't unique, hard to find or special - nor simply the rarified realm of hipsters or white male beer snobs.
What I'm trying to convey to people from outside of the area that for much of the PNW it's just beer. You don't have to go out of your way to find it, it's not fancy - and it's not much more expensive than macros or major labels, especially if you start comparing ABV and taste.
At a few bars and restaurants in town you can't actually order a Coors, Miller or a Bud, because they just don't have it, even if they're using major distributors for some or all of their beverage supply.
At my local the three cheapest beers are Old German Lager ($2 12 oz can), Oly ($3 pint draft) Rainier ($3 tallboy), and then off the top of my head I think it's PBR bottles, Rolling Rock bottles and the rest is ciders and local-ish beer cans and bottles, and then whatever is on tap which is usually local, unique and/or special. Could be Finn River, could be PT Brewery, could be pFriem or other stuff from farther away.
I'm not bringing this up to be some kind of snooty beer snob, because I'm definitely not.
The reason why I think it's important to recognize that this kind of craft brewing or micro/macro brewing is ubiquitous in some places is directly related to the topic of sexist and sexualized marketing.
It's not a contest, but it might even more be more important around here to deal with sexist beer names and marketing because beer is so pervasive - where beers are served in all ages family friendly environments, and having a good local beer at a pub, beer garden or brewery even with kids in tow is about as common as having a cup of coffee.
This isn't just a Seattle or WA state thing, this general enjoyment and acceptance of smaller craft beers (and their bigger analogues) is all up and down the whole bioregion of Cascadia, and much if not most of California.
And I've definitely talked to some of my friends who are bar owners about this, how they won't carry anything with sexist marketing or names because they're generally awesome and aware people.
posted by loquacious at 9:11 PM on January 5, 2018
Oh sure, I'm not saying you can't get it at all, nor that people don't drink it. I'm just trying to point out that in some places "craft" or small beers or whatever aren't unique, hard to find or special - nor simply the rarified realm of hipsters or white male beer snobs.
What I'm trying to convey to people from outside of the area that for much of the PNW it's just beer. You don't have to go out of your way to find it, it's not fancy - and it's not much more expensive than macros or major labels, especially if you start comparing ABV and taste.
At a few bars and restaurants in town you can't actually order a Coors, Miller or a Bud, because they just don't have it, even if they're using major distributors for some or all of their beverage supply.
At my local the three cheapest beers are Old German Lager ($2 12 oz can), Oly ($3 pint draft) Rainier ($3 tallboy), and then off the top of my head I think it's PBR bottles, Rolling Rock bottles and the rest is ciders and local-ish beer cans and bottles, and then whatever is on tap which is usually local, unique and/or special. Could be Finn River, could be PT Brewery, could be pFriem or other stuff from farther away.
I'm not bringing this up to be some kind of snooty beer snob, because I'm definitely not.
The reason why I think it's important to recognize that this kind of craft brewing or micro/macro brewing is ubiquitous in some places is directly related to the topic of sexist and sexualized marketing.
It's not a contest, but it might even more be more important around here to deal with sexist beer names and marketing because beer is so pervasive - where beers are served in all ages family friendly environments, and having a good local beer at a pub, beer garden or brewery even with kids in tow is about as common as having a cup of coffee.
This isn't just a Seattle or WA state thing, this general enjoyment and acceptance of smaller craft beers (and their bigger analogues) is all up and down the whole bioregion of Cascadia, and much if not most of California.
And I've definitely talked to some of my friends who are bar owners about this, how they won't carry anything with sexist marketing or names because they're generally awesome and aware people.
posted by loquacious at 9:11 PM on January 5, 2018
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it might also help if they stopped condoning blatant misogyny and racism
posted by runt at 8:30 AM on January 4, 2018 [28 favorites]