Apply Chainsaw Gently
January 18, 2018 9:18 PM Subscribe
"Heathers" Official Red Band Trailer (YT), for the new Paramount TV show based on the 1988 black comedy. Reactions to the trailer veer between it being "sublimely vicious" and "baffling" and "a conservative fantasy".
I’m the only queermo I know who kinda liked the trailer. I haven’t seen any other Heathers and I get the dodgyness of making the queermos the villains, but at the same time they seem like a lot of fun with a ton of personality.
posted by divabat at 9:23 PM on January 18, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by divabat at 9:23 PM on January 18, 2018 [2 favorites]
Punching Down was the first working title for the series.
posted by benzenedream at 9:30 PM on January 18, 2018 [20 favorites]
posted by benzenedream at 9:30 PM on January 18, 2018 [20 favorites]
Well, the only names I recognize on the IMDB cast listing are Selma Blair and Shannen Doherty, so if it's as bad as it looks I won't have to retroactively hate anything I actually like (well, maybe Hellboy).
posted by axiom at 9:38 PM on January 18, 2018
posted by axiom at 9:38 PM on January 18, 2018
I know too many queens who didn't know this was exactly what they wanted to possibly be offended by this perfect thing.
posted by Navelgazer at 9:39 PM on January 18, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by Navelgazer at 9:39 PM on January 18, 2018 [1 favorite]
While I applaud the diversity and inclusion the main cast has, the fact it's a pretty, conventional white girl raging under the thumb of the DiverseHeathers had really, super-bad optics and I can't believe anyone didn't think that through.
I'm still in, though. Heather Chandler looks super fierce.
posted by ApathyGirl at 10:10 PM on January 18, 2018 [12 favorites]
I'm still in, though. Heather Chandler looks super fierce.
posted by ApathyGirl at 10:10 PM on January 18, 2018 [12 favorites]
This looks like fun but from people who never understood what satire is?
I've never seen the movie though so I don't know if the original hits you over the head with messaging less than the musical does (in a good way).
posted by vibratory manner of working at 10:20 PM on January 18, 2018
I've never seen the movie though so I don't know if the original hits you over the head with messaging less than the musical does (in a good way).
posted by vibratory manner of working at 10:20 PM on January 18, 2018
It's like everyone has forgotten that J.D., the Christian Slater character in the original movie, is the actual villain and the Heathers are the social group he is targeting.
Like, everyone has forgotten this?
If you're offended by this trailer making it look like the Heathers are the villains then you literally don't know the source material.
posted by hippybear at 10:34 PM on January 18, 2018 [42 favorites]
Like, everyone has forgotten this?
If you're offended by this trailer making it look like the Heathers are the villains then you literally don't know the source material.
posted by hippybear at 10:34 PM on January 18, 2018 [42 favorites]
Oh sorry, Spoiler Alert.
posted by hippybear at 10:36 PM on January 18, 2018 [7 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 10:36 PM on January 18, 2018 [7 favorites]
Oh, and that it's the feeling that the Heathers are villainous are the excuse that J.D. uses to target them AND THAT IS THE POINT OF THE SATIRE.
posted by hippybear at 10:48 PM on January 18, 2018 [12 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 10:48 PM on January 18, 2018 [12 favorites]
I mean, also murder is wrong, so there's a pretty good indication of who the villain is in the trailer.
But often people will have concerns about who and what is made to look sympathetic/cool in a piece of media and those concerns are legitimate even when you'd think the intent of the source material might invalidate them (Fight Club, Falling Down, etc).
posted by ODiV at 10:50 PM on January 18, 2018 [5 favorites]
But often people will have concerns about who and what is made to look sympathetic/cool in a piece of media and those concerns are legitimate even when you'd think the intent of the source material might invalidate them (Fight Club, Falling Down, etc).
posted by ODiV at 10:50 PM on January 18, 2018 [5 favorites]
It's like everyone has forgotten that J.D., the Christian Slater character in the original movie, is the actual villain and the Heathers are the social group he is targeting.
People in this thread that haven't seen Heathers seem to be assuming Heathers had roughly the same plot as Mean Girls. I am here to tell you that it did not.
posted by fshgrl at 10:51 PM on January 18, 2018 [63 favorites]
People in this thread that haven't seen Heathers seem to be assuming Heathers had roughly the same plot as Mean Girls. I am here to tell you that it did not.
posted by fshgrl at 10:51 PM on January 18, 2018 [63 favorites]
But often people will have concerns about who and what is made to look sympathetic/cool in a piece of media
Which goes back since earlier than Catcher In The Rye. And means our educational system is failing us because if we had actually good education across this country, everyone would recognize satire for what it is.
posted by hippybear at 10:54 PM on January 18, 2018 [1 favorite]
Which goes back since earlier than Catcher In The Rye. And means our educational system is failing us because if we had actually good education across this country, everyone would recognize satire for what it is.
posted by hippybear at 10:54 PM on January 18, 2018 [1 favorite]
Satire is hard so I am probably misreading it, and I confess I don't recall the original anymore, but it seems kinda muddied and confused to me, a person unfamiliar with the source material.
posted by axiom at 10:55 PM on January 18, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by axiom at 10:55 PM on January 18, 2018 [2 favorites]
Here's the trailer for the original. I was a bit... shocked.. to watch it, really.
posted by hippybear at 10:58 PM on January 18, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by hippybear at 10:58 PM on January 18, 2018 [1 favorite]
Heathers the movie was clever. This doesn't look so clever to me, albeit there is some wit. It looks, for lack of a better term, hip. I dunno, maybe I'll give the first episode a shot and see how it grabs me.
posted by ashbury at 11:08 PM on January 18, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by ashbury at 11:08 PM on January 18, 2018 [4 favorites]
"Don't comment bad things, my mom is reading them." Hee! I love the trailer, it looks like it will either gloriously miss the mark, or it just might get the John Waters/Twin Peaks viciousness needed. I hope they go dark enough though, and make sure it's focussed on the Heathers. The best part of the original movie was the realisation that JD was just a weapon and not the Main Character as he saw himself.
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 11:22 PM on January 18, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 11:22 PM on January 18, 2018 [3 favorites]
This looks like some talentless hack took the already lazy-as-fuck idea of dusting off an old script the studio already owns and just really lazied it up a whole bunch more with the most cookie-cutter stereotypical bullshit I’ve ever seen. And shot it to look like a Disney Channel sitcom, to boot.
Maybe it’s just a shitty trailer. But it’s a really shitty trailer.
Kids, as usual: The original still exists; just watch that instead.
posted by Sys Rq at 12:07 AM on January 19, 2018 [16 favorites]
Maybe it’s just a shitty trailer. But it’s a really shitty trailer.
Kids, as usual: The original still exists; just watch that instead.
posted by Sys Rq at 12:07 AM on January 19, 2018 [16 favorites]
Huh, this looks to me like they might have actually nailed the tone and dryness. Could still be a disappointment, but the trailer actually makes me want to give it a shot.
posted by scrowdid at 12:27 AM on January 19, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by scrowdid at 12:27 AM on January 19, 2018 [2 favorites]
The only time I saw Heathers we were playing a drinking game where you take a sip of schnapps every time someone says the name Heather. And that's all I'm going to say about that.
posted by the duck by the oboe at 12:53 AM on January 19, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by the duck by the oboe at 12:53 AM on January 19, 2018 [4 favorites]
This gets Heathers completely wrong. Like, 180 degrees. Heather Chandler can never be some vaguely queer, unmoneyed SJW caricature. This is practically Heathers by redditors, like the Star Wars recut. Fuck off and die.
posted by snuffleupagus at 1:03 AM on January 19, 2018 [16 favorites]
posted by snuffleupagus at 1:03 AM on January 19, 2018 [16 favorites]
If you're offended by this trailer making it look like the Heathers are the villains then you literally don't know the source material.
Of course the Heathers are villains. But now the Heathers are Martha.
The original was as much a critique of class privilege and suburban nihilism as anything else. I don't know what the fuck this is, aside from a terrible decision that will hopefully soon be ejected into the Sun.
posted by snuffleupagus at 1:09 AM on January 19, 2018 [20 favorites]
Of course the Heathers are villains. But now the Heathers are Martha.
The original was as much a critique of class privilege and suburban nihilism as anything else. I don't know what the fuck this is, aside from a terrible decision that will hopefully soon be ejected into the Sun.
posted by snuffleupagus at 1:09 AM on January 19, 2018 [20 favorites]
And that's all I'm going to say about that
that's probably all you remember about that
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 2:15 AM on January 19, 2018 [3 favorites]
that's probably all you remember about that
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 2:15 AM on January 19, 2018 [3 favorites]
I’m basically aligned with Sys Rq on this. But do appreciate the dead accurate Winona Ryder vocal fry that the Veronica actor is bringing to the voiceovers.
posted by Shepherd at 2:28 AM on January 19, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by Shepherd at 2:28 AM on January 19, 2018 [3 favorites]
The extreme always seems to make an impression.
This looks terrible and everyone involved should feel terrible
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 3:45 AM on January 19, 2018 [1 favorite]
This looks terrible and everyone involved should feel terrible
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 3:45 AM on January 19, 2018 [1 favorite]
(spoilers for original movie) The Heathers were not initially sympathetic characters, they're relatively-interchangeable figures for the yuppie-bound privileged women who don't seem to have any problems getting whatever they want. You're set up to initially enjoy how the revenge fantasy starts playing out; we only learn to recognize the Heathers as individuals with problems and difficulties as the revenge fantasy escalates.
So to set up a remake with the Heathers as cultural minorities rather than tokens of the ironed-hair blonde women who represent wealth, success and acess -- fronting for suburban perfectionism, the best schools, Fox News and the Republican ruling elite -- defangs a critical aspect of the original movie and threatens to make this yet another circular firing squad of underclass vs. underclass, leaving the upper classes alone to do as they please. I can't tell whether the producers of the TV show don't understand what the movie was doing, or whether it's an intentional detournement.
posted by at by at 4:18 AM on January 19, 2018 [53 favorites]
So to set up a remake with the Heathers as cultural minorities rather than tokens of the ironed-hair blonde women who represent wealth, success and acess -- fronting for suburban perfectionism, the best schools, Fox News and the Republican ruling elite -- defangs a critical aspect of the original movie and threatens to make this yet another circular firing squad of underclass vs. underclass, leaving the upper classes alone to do as they please. I can't tell whether the producers of the TV show don't understand what the movie was doing, or whether it's an intentional detournement.
posted by at by at 4:18 AM on January 19, 2018 [53 favorites]
This show is like a breath of fresh air! I hope they do the same cool, snarky, over-the-top takedown of the Jews running the school newspaper!
posted by PlusDistance at 4:19 AM on January 19, 2018 [13 favorites]
posted by PlusDistance at 4:19 AM on January 19, 2018 [13 favorites]
So, this trailer makes it look like the show just copies the plot (including death scenes) of the original. It's really nothing more than Veronica +JD vs. the HEathers (with, presumably, the Veronica vs. J.D. ending?)?
Yeah, that will hold up for 10 episodes.
I hope, that they chose to mimic the original movie in this trailer in order to mine the nostalgia for attention and that the actual show makes some effort to say something new or at least something more.
posted by oddman at 4:28 AM on January 19, 2018
Yeah, that will hold up for 10 episodes.
I hope, that they chose to mimic the original movie in this trailer in order to mine the nostalgia for attention and that the actual show makes some effort to say something new or at least something more.
posted by oddman at 4:28 AM on January 19, 2018
I am kind of hoping that the new JD is an alt-right neonazi and this is a bald critique of modern toxic masculinity because otherwise this looks unsalvageable.
posted by muddgirl at 4:33 AM on January 19, 2018 [15 favorites]
posted by muddgirl at 4:33 AM on January 19, 2018 [15 favorites]
Gods, talk about missing. the. point. and creating a revisionist propaganda where LGBTQ people under 20 don't have the most suicides, most physical assaults, most sexual assaults, etc., of any youth demographic. All because a handful of schools supporting trans teens is the new moral panic. I swear there must be a TERF on the writing team.
The dark humor of the original mocked so much that was wrong about how school systems and (primarily white and suburban) parents collectively knee-jerked over teen suicides in the 1980s. Throw a spirit rally! Eulogize the gay sons you rejected in life! Promote pop songs that repeat "don't do it" in every line! Meanwhile, there's mass murders going on because none of the adult characters is willing to look too closely into the lives of their children.
There's a Marxist theory of public education that school systems serve to recreate class structures, and Heathers is the most prominent movie to run with that theme.
posted by GenderNullPointerException at 4:44 AM on January 19, 2018 [21 favorites]
The dark humor of the original mocked so much that was wrong about how school systems and (primarily white and suburban) parents collectively knee-jerked over teen suicides in the 1980s. Throw a spirit rally! Eulogize the gay sons you rejected in life! Promote pop songs that repeat "don't do it" in every line! Meanwhile, there's mass murders going on because none of the adult characters is willing to look too closely into the lives of their children.
There's a Marxist theory of public education that school systems serve to recreate class structures, and Heathers is the most prominent movie to run with that theme.
posted by GenderNullPointerException at 4:44 AM on January 19, 2018 [21 favorites]
Eulogize the gay sons you rejected in life!
They weren't actually gay, though. They were framed as gay by the addition of a bottle of mineral water to their death scene. I've thus thought for thirty years that the point of that wasn't that certain things (being thin or fat or straight or gay or whatever) made a person acceptable or unacceptable, but that people came pre-sorted and their characteristics were valorised or despised depending on who they were. So Heather's fake suicide is glamorous while Martha Dunnstock's actual suicide attempt is mocked.
It's curious how much of modern popular culture is made up of insipid karaoke versions of past popular culture.
posted by Grangousier at 5:17 AM on January 19, 2018 [13 favorites]
They weren't actually gay, though. They were framed as gay by the addition of a bottle of mineral water to their death scene. I've thus thought for thirty years that the point of that wasn't that certain things (being thin or fat or straight or gay or whatever) made a person acceptable or unacceptable, but that people came pre-sorted and their characteristics were valorised or despised depending on who they were. So Heather's fake suicide is glamorous while Martha Dunnstock's actual suicide attempt is mocked.
It's curious how much of modern popular culture is made up of insipid karaoke versions of past popular culture.
posted by Grangousier at 5:17 AM on January 19, 2018 [13 favorites]
I will admit to not really liking the original when it came out. Sorry. And this thing? But this abomination is simply bad. A big bowl of nope. Sys Rq pretty much nails it. Even if I'd never seen the original, I'd still recognize this as lazy, hack writing turned-up to 11 because EDGY!
posted by Thorzdad at 5:28 AM on January 19, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by Thorzdad at 5:28 AM on January 19, 2018 [2 favorites]
Mostly I came out of that trailer thinking that if I'd gone to a high school where the most popular kids on campus were the Heathers of that trailer, maybe I wouldn't have hated high school so much.
posted by thivaia at 6:05 AM on January 19, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by thivaia at 6:05 AM on January 19, 2018 [1 favorite]
Who among us hasn't faced oppression from popular plus-size women, racial minorities, and genderqueers? Thank the gods a TV show is finally brave enough to stand up and support the pretty white people.
What really sucks about this is that marginalized teenagers are desperate to see themselves represented in media. In my house, we have subsisted on drips and drabs - the sweet gay boy in "Andi Mack", cautious optimism watching the trailer of "Love, Simon", etc. So instead, here we have bitchy stereotypes and revenge fantasies against minorities. Great.
Putting aside the fact that a story about a trenchcoated white boy who kills people in high school has been pretty much out of bounds since, oh, say, Columbine, everything about this looks wrong and disturbing.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 6:12 AM on January 19, 2018 [19 favorites]
What really sucks about this is that marginalized teenagers are desperate to see themselves represented in media. In my house, we have subsisted on drips and drabs - the sweet gay boy in "Andi Mack", cautious optimism watching the trailer of "Love, Simon", etc. So instead, here we have bitchy stereotypes and revenge fantasies against minorities. Great.
Putting aside the fact that a story about a trenchcoated white boy who kills people in high school has been pretty much out of bounds since, oh, say, Columbine, everything about this looks wrong and disturbing.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 6:12 AM on January 19, 2018 [19 favorites]
The original is on Netflix right now and I still love to rewatch it.
posted by I'm Not Even Supposed To Be Here Today! at 6:14 AM on January 19, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by I'm Not Even Supposed To Be Here Today! at 6:14 AM on January 19, 2018 [1 favorite]
Here's the trailer for the original.
hippybear, there is at least one person who will disagree with you there. That would be my friend Rene Daalder, writer/director of a 1976 independent film, Massacre at Central High. He maintains that Heathers is a direct rip-off of his film. Heathers is certainly a better film, but I can see his point to some extent.
posted by StickyCarpet at 6:30 AM on January 19, 2018 [1 favorite]
hippybear, there is at least one person who will disagree with you there. That would be my friend Rene Daalder, writer/director of a 1976 independent film, Massacre at Central High. He maintains that Heathers is a direct rip-off of his film. Heathers is certainly a better film, but I can see his point to some extent.
posted by StickyCarpet at 6:30 AM on January 19, 2018 [1 favorite]
I'm guessing in this remake JD hangs out on 4chan and brought a tiki torch to Charleston for the lols?
posted by Catblack at 6:36 AM on January 19, 2018 [7 favorites]
posted by Catblack at 6:36 AM on January 19, 2018 [7 favorites]
Fuck. No. Next?
posted by jeffamaphone at 6:55 AM on January 19, 2018
posted by jeffamaphone at 6:55 AM on January 19, 2018
Directed By: Jason Micallef
ah the guy who wrote that horrible white suburbia fantasy where a talented black girl's entire story arc consisted of her desperately wanting to internalize weird white 4H culture and the only character development that happened was for an over-the-top competitive housewife motif poorly played by Jennifer Garner. a film that also features a goofy white dad using AAVE in a funny, ridiculous way because oh my gosh why would a goofy white dad ever speak such a crude language and a stripper with a heart of gold who just happens to seduce a teenager and have a whole sexy sex scene with her but redeems herself by being really nice to the little black girl by unrealistically buying her a ridiculously bougie set of knives
I'm sure this will be a very tasteful work of art with nuanced commentary on the current state of social affairs and not just something that came out of a two-hour-long brainstorm by a table of white manchildren whose artistic inspirations stem from mid-90s SNL skits and mid-00s SNL skits
posted by runt at 7:09 AM on January 19, 2018 [8 favorites]
ah the guy who wrote that horrible white suburbia fantasy where a talented black girl's entire story arc consisted of her desperately wanting to internalize weird white 4H culture and the only character development that happened was for an over-the-top competitive housewife motif poorly played by Jennifer Garner. a film that also features a goofy white dad using AAVE in a funny, ridiculous way because oh my gosh why would a goofy white dad ever speak such a crude language and a stripper with a heart of gold who just happens to seduce a teenager and have a whole sexy sex scene with her but redeems herself by being really nice to the little black girl by unrealistically buying her a ridiculously bougie set of knives
I'm sure this will be a very tasteful work of art with nuanced commentary on the current state of social affairs and not just something that came out of a two-hour-long brainstorm by a table of white manchildren whose artistic inspirations stem from mid-90s SNL skits and mid-00s SNL skits
posted by runt at 7:09 AM on January 19, 2018 [8 favorites]
What the fucking fuck did I just watch? That was more than a "conservative" fantasy, it was a goddamn alt-right fantasy aimed directly at the 4channers and reddit/The Donald.
FUUUUUUUUck that.
Also, everyone going, "well, I never saw the original", quit doing that, you're making me feel old AF. The original seemed so perfectly done and suited to the times that everyone I knew just kind of assumed it would at least achieve the same sort of "everyone's seen it" cult status as Fifth Element or Repo Man or The Thing.
posted by soundguy99 at 7:28 AM on January 19, 2018 [8 favorites]
FUUUUUUUUck that.
Also, everyone going, "well, I never saw the original", quit doing that, you're making me feel old AF. The original seemed so perfectly done and suited to the times that everyone I knew just kind of assumed it would at least achieve the same sort of "everyone's seen it" cult status as Fifth Element or Repo Man or The Thing.
posted by soundguy99 at 7:28 AM on January 19, 2018 [8 favorites]
The only time I saw Heathers we were playing a drinking game where you take a sip of schnapps every time someone says the name Heather. And that's all I'm going to say about that.
I unwisely played this game with Leaving Las Vegas and every time [Nick Cage drinks]. Oh, and I was using Rumple Minze, the coffin nail of schnapps.
I made some enemies that night.
posted by Reasonably Everything Happens at 7:30 AM on January 19, 2018 [9 favorites]
I unwisely played this game with Leaving Las Vegas and every time [Nick Cage drinks]. Oh, and I was using Rumple Minze, the coffin nail of schnapps.
I made some enemies that night.
posted by Reasonably Everything Happens at 7:30 AM on January 19, 2018 [9 favorites]
, Massacre at Central High.
Going by the plot summary, unless it’s missing some thematic stuff, they’re pretty different until you get to the end and yeah, that is more or less the exact same ending.
posted by Artw at 7:31 AM on January 19, 2018
Going by the plot summary, unless it’s missing some thematic stuff, they’re pretty different until you get to the end and yeah, that is more or less the exact same ending.
posted by Artw at 7:31 AM on January 19, 2018
I stumbled across this trailer yesterday. Pretty big fan of the original. I agree that the diverse cool kids may be great, watchable characters with tons of hilarious snark, and I might watch a show with them. But not this show. It makes no sense to call this Heathers.
posted by Glinn at 7:58 AM on January 19, 2018
posted by Glinn at 7:58 AM on January 19, 2018
Okay, I found where the massive miscommunication in this whole series is, thanks to a quote over at E.W.
“The main thing to really take away is I don’t view the Heathers as the villains,” showrunner Jason Micallef told EW. “The three Heathers are incredibly powerful and ruling the school; they’re the people you would want to be. In the original film, the Heathers were the ones I always loved, and it’s the same with the series. The Heathers are the aspirational characters. [That the Heathers are the villains is] the underlying thesis of the small segment of people that have an issue with it. The villain is J.D. — and that’s the same in the movie and same in our show.”
Raise hands, please, who wanted to be the Heathers???? Mind. Blown.
posted by warriorqueen at 8:26 AM on January 19, 2018 [18 favorites]
“The main thing to really take away is I don’t view the Heathers as the villains,” showrunner Jason Micallef told EW. “The three Heathers are incredibly powerful and ruling the school; they’re the people you would want to be. In the original film, the Heathers were the ones I always loved, and it’s the same with the series. The Heathers are the aspirational characters. [That the Heathers are the villains is] the underlying thesis of the small segment of people that have an issue with it. The villain is J.D. — and that’s the same in the movie and same in our show.”
Raise hands, please, who wanted to be the Heathers???? Mind. Blown.
posted by warriorqueen at 8:26 AM on January 19, 2018 [18 favorites]
> “The main thing to really take away is I don’t view the Heathers as the villains,” showrunner Jason Micallef told EW. “The three Heathers are incredibly powerful and ruling the school; they’re the people you would want to be. In the original film, the Heathers were the ones I always loved, and it’s the same with the series. The Heathers are the aspirational characters. [That the Heathers are the villains is] the underlying thesis of the small segment of people that have an issue with it. The villain is J.D. — and that’s the same in the movie and same in our show.”
Oh my god he completely misunderstood the movie.
You twit, the Heathers and other super-popular kids were the villains AND J.D. was a villain (masquerading as an antihero.) There can be more than one villain. Villains can villain against each other and also against the good people. That's why the movie was good.
posted by desuetude at 8:49 AM on January 19, 2018 [45 favorites]
Oh my god he completely misunderstood the movie.
You twit, the Heathers and other super-popular kids were the villains AND J.D. was a villain (masquerading as an antihero.) There can be more than one villain. Villains can villain against each other and also against the good people. That's why the movie was good.
posted by desuetude at 8:49 AM on January 19, 2018 [45 favorites]
Yes, the football players were not really gay. But, an explicitly stated plot twist is that Veronica and J.D. attempt to posthumously slander their victims (by framing them as gay and depressed), only to find they've created martyrs. The homophobia angle of that twist reflected the pop-culture dichotomy of dead (or dying) martyrs vs. living joke. "I love my dead gay son," is a punchline because, in exaggerated delivery over the kitsch of a football funeral at the end of a eulogy loaded with "pansy" and "a homosexual," it's so obviously a performative statement of after-the-fact acceptance.
Out-of-frame, football dad may have woke up and started something like the Trevor Project. In-frame he's a stand-in for a stand in for what a lot of straight culture did in the Reagan Years. It's sad that he's dead, even sadder to discover he was a "pansy." And that's put on the screen in one of the most clownish performances of the movie.
And then, seconds later, the camera cuts to the understated, quiet, and wordless grief of a younger sibling. That's a moment where the movie stops joking, just for a moment, to say that the while prejudices of the characters may be ridiculous but the real-life consequences are not.
posted by GenderNullPointerException at 8:50 AM on January 19, 2018 [22 favorites]
Out-of-frame, football dad may have woke up and started something like the Trevor Project. In-frame he's a stand-in for a stand in for what a lot of straight culture did in the Reagan Years. It's sad that he's dead, even sadder to discover he was a "pansy." And that's put on the screen in one of the most clownish performances of the movie.
And then, seconds later, the camera cuts to the understated, quiet, and wordless grief of a younger sibling. That's a moment where the movie stops joking, just for a moment, to say that the while prejudices of the characters may be ridiculous but the real-life consequences are not.
posted by GenderNullPointerException at 8:50 AM on January 19, 2018 [22 favorites]
Oh my god he completely misunderstood the movie.
Wow. Just wow.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 8:59 AM on January 19, 2018 [2 favorites]
Wow. Just wow.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 8:59 AM on January 19, 2018 [2 favorites]
Heathers: An Oral History.
... a 24-year-old video-store clerk named Daniel Waters had a brilliantly ludicrous idea: “What if Stanley Kubrick made a teen film?”posted by russilwvong at 9:16 AM on January 19, 2018 [10 favorites]
WATERS You can’t overvalue how much Winona meant to this movie. In my initial drafts, Veronica was much more evil and twisted. I referred to her as a female Travis Bickle from Taxi Driver. And suddenly you’re rewriting with Winona in mind, and Veronica becomes more of an audience surrogate.
Heathers hit theaters on March 31, 1989, as New World Pictures was going bankrupt.
DI NOVI It was a nightmare. I paid for the ad in the L.A. Times myself for the second week. It was $1,800, which to me was like $18,000.
LEHMANN The movie didn’t do a lot of box office, but it did stay in the theaters for a while. It never made a profit.
WATERS I made more money writing a treatment for Parent Trap 3 for the Disney Channel that never happened.
Raise hands, please, who wanted to be the Heathers???? Mind. Blown.
My mind is being similarly blown, but for the opposite reason. The film is making use of the "popular kids in high school" trope. Everyone is supposed to want to be them. Obviously not everyone does, and obviously once we're twenty years past high school (oh my god) we can see how stupid it all is, but it's a premise we have to at least sort of buy for the purpose of the fiction, right? We see the tension in Veronica who wants to be a part of it, but also hates it at the same time. If we don't empathize with her on this then it seems like it'd be a very different story.
Maybe I need to watch it again, but this is how I remember it from when I last watched it probably a decade ago.
posted by ODiV at 9:17 AM on January 19, 2018 [1 favorite]
My mind is being similarly blown, but for the opposite reason. The film is making use of the "popular kids in high school" trope. Everyone is supposed to want to be them. Obviously not everyone does, and obviously once we're twenty years past high school (oh my god) we can see how stupid it all is, but it's a premise we have to at least sort of buy for the purpose of the fiction, right? We see the tension in Veronica who wants to be a part of it, but also hates it at the same time. If we don't empathize with her on this then it seems like it'd be a very different story.
Maybe I need to watch it again, but this is how I remember it from when I last watched it probably a decade ago.
posted by ODiV at 9:17 AM on January 19, 2018 [1 favorite]
> warriorqueen:
"Okay, I found where the massive miscommunication in this whole series is, thanks to a quote over at E.W.
“The main thing to really take away is I don’t view the Heathers as the villains,” showrunner Jason Micallef told EW. “The three Heathers are incredibly powerful and ruling the school; they’re the people you would want to be. In the original film, the Heathers were the ones I always loved, and it’s the same with the series. The Heathers are the aspirational characters. [That the Heathers are the villains is] the underlying thesis of the small segment of people that have an issue with it. The villain is J.D. — and that’s the same in the movie and same in our show.”
Raise hands, please, who wanted to be the Heathers???? Mind. Blown."
> lalex:
"Not me. I'm a Veronica."
I wish I was an Archie, but I skew more Jughead...
posted by Samizdata at 9:21 AM on January 19, 2018
"Okay, I found where the massive miscommunication in this whole series is, thanks to a quote over at E.W.
“The main thing to really take away is I don’t view the Heathers as the villains,” showrunner Jason Micallef told EW. “The three Heathers are incredibly powerful and ruling the school; they’re the people you would want to be. In the original film, the Heathers were the ones I always loved, and it’s the same with the series. The Heathers are the aspirational characters. [That the Heathers are the villains is] the underlying thesis of the small segment of people that have an issue with it. The villain is J.D. — and that’s the same in the movie and same in our show.”
Raise hands, please, who wanted to be the Heathers???? Mind. Blown."
> lalex:
"Not me. I'm a Veronica."
I wish I was an Archie, but I skew more Jughead...
posted by Samizdata at 9:21 AM on January 19, 2018
The only time I saw Heathers we were playing a drinking game where you take a sip of schnapps every time someone says the name Heather. And that's all I'm going to say about that.
I unwisely played this game with Leaving Las Vegas and every time [Nick Cage drinks]. Oh, and I was using Rumple Minze, the coffin nail of schnapps.
I made some enemies that night.
There is only the One True Game. And its name is "Hi Bob!"
posted by lagomorphius at 9:24 AM on January 19, 2018 [3 favorites]
I unwisely played this game with Leaving Las Vegas and every time [Nick Cage drinks]. Oh, and I was using Rumple Minze, the coffin nail of schnapps.
I made some enemies that night.
There is only the One True Game. And its name is "Hi Bob!"
posted by lagomorphius at 9:24 AM on January 19, 2018 [3 favorites]
Of course the Heathers are *partially* aspirational - all the other students want to be them, but they also want to kill them. J.D. is the only one sociopathic enough to actually do it. Believe me we don't yet live in a world where body positivity is so pervasive, people are jealous of proud fat women. Or where gay people could be murdered for being TOO popular.
I think of Heathers as a Gen X reaction to the Gen X John Hughes ouvre. John Hughes' whole thing is that being a teenager sucks, even if you are a "cool kid," and that the teenager years are something that have to be survived if not enjoyed. Heathers takes the cynical view that most teenagers (most PEOPLE) are pretty much monsters inside.
posted by muddgirl at 9:24 AM on January 19, 2018 [14 favorites]
I think of Heathers as a Gen X reaction to the Gen X John Hughes ouvre. John Hughes' whole thing is that being a teenager sucks, even if you are a "cool kid," and that the teenager years are something that have to be survived if not enjoyed. Heathers takes the cynical view that most teenagers (most PEOPLE) are pretty much monsters inside.
posted by muddgirl at 9:24 AM on January 19, 2018 [14 favorites]
Gods, I apologize for the terrible editing of my last comment.
If you stripped out the black comedy, satire, and ambiguously happy ending, Heathers would be a tragedy similar to Romeo and Juliet where characters choose to act on prejudices and grudges in horrifying ways with terrible consequences. The black comedy makes it go down easier than West Side Story, which spends its second act hitting you over the head with emotional consequences. (I'm fond of West Side Story because of it, but I wouldn't call it fun to watch.)
posted by GenderNullPointerException at 9:28 AM on January 19, 2018 [1 favorite]
If you stripped out the black comedy, satire, and ambiguously happy ending, Heathers would be a tragedy similar to Romeo and Juliet where characters choose to act on prejudices and grudges in horrifying ways with terrible consequences. The black comedy makes it go down easier than West Side Story, which spends its second act hitting you over the head with emotional consequences. (I'm fond of West Side Story because of it, but I wouldn't call it fun to watch.)
posted by GenderNullPointerException at 9:28 AM on January 19, 2018 [1 favorite]
We see the tension in Veronica who wants to be a part of it, but also hates it at the same time. If we don't empathize with her on this then it seems like it'd be a very different story.
Of course the Heathers are *partially* aspirational - all the other students want to be them, but they also want to kill them.
Hmmm. For me I think the thing that made Heathers stand out at the time (although memory is suspect) is that wanting to be a Heather was such a blatantly hollow goal from the start, and that it was entirely an anti-hero teen film; I didn't want to be any of them, but I did sort-of sympathize with the feelings (Veronica's dance with JD, the surreal fantasies, the irony mixed with hatred) enough to stick through the dystopia.
posted by warriorqueen at 9:37 AM on January 19, 2018 [4 favorites]
Of course the Heathers are *partially* aspirational - all the other students want to be them, but they also want to kill them.
Hmmm. For me I think the thing that made Heathers stand out at the time (although memory is suspect) is that wanting to be a Heather was such a blatantly hollow goal from the start, and that it was entirely an anti-hero teen film; I didn't want to be any of them, but I did sort-of sympathize with the feelings (Veronica's dance with JD, the surreal fantasies, the irony mixed with hatred) enough to stick through the dystopia.
posted by warriorqueen at 9:37 AM on January 19, 2018 [4 favorites]
“The three Heathers are incredibly powerful and ruling the school; they’re the people you would want to be.
ugh, what? oh yeah, I live in a country where Donald Trump is president. people really believe all of these myths about the rich.
posted by eustatic at 9:41 AM on January 19, 2018 [1 favorite]
ugh, what? oh yeah, I live in a country where Donald Trump is president. people really believe all of these myths about the rich.
posted by eustatic at 9:41 AM on January 19, 2018 [1 favorite]
@warriorqueen - yeah, "hollow" is a better word than monsters. Everyone in that movie is hollow, even the adults, and the "suicides" fill up that emptiness and give their lives some sort of temporary meaning.
posted by muddgirl at 9:46 AM on January 19, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by muddgirl at 9:46 AM on January 19, 2018 [2 favorites]
Uhhhhh, no. This seems like the opposite of what Heathers was about. And even if you did want to update it to make it more relevant to today's teens, making body-positive queers the face of oppressive conformity is so dumb. I guess this is a show mostly written for Reddit MRAs.
posted by Kitty Stardust at 9:58 AM on January 19, 2018 [5 favorites]
posted by Kitty Stardust at 9:58 AM on January 19, 2018 [5 favorites]
If they really wanted to capture the essence of the original, Heather Chandler should be played by Tomi Lahren.
posted by Kitty Stardust at 10:00 AM on January 19, 2018 [10 favorites]
posted by Kitty Stardust at 10:00 AM on January 19, 2018 [10 favorites]
Awful.
posted by defenestration at 10:15 AM on January 19, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by defenestration at 10:15 AM on January 19, 2018 [1 favorite]
What really sucks about this is that marginalized teenagers are desperate to see themselves represented in media.
I was sort of hoping genderqueer Heather was going to be McNamara because she's the only one who gets redeemed, for just that reason and it's been a long time since I was a teenager
posted by vibratory manner of working at 10:34 AM on January 19, 2018 [1 favorite]
I was sort of hoping genderqueer Heather was going to be McNamara because she's the only one who gets redeemed, for just that reason and it's been a long time since I was a teenager
posted by vibratory manner of working at 10:34 AM on January 19, 2018 [1 favorite]
I, too, love Heathers ever since being ambushed by it on "Well, let's go see whatever the hell this is, I guess" movie night, when there was no other choice at the cinema that week. (The musical, while a bit different in tone, is also very good.) It also ages well despite the 80's nostalgia vibe: JD's message of "Nobody cares about the facts; they'll twist everything to fit the narrative they want, anyway" rings pretty true this year, too.
As for the TV version? Well, it's really hard to tell from a trailer if this really gets Heathers completely wrong, or if the trailer just gets Heathers completely wrong, so I will reserve judgement on that. Trailers can be really deceptive and not indicative of the work, after all.
That said, Grace Victoria Cox seems to be doing little more than a (very good, admittedly) Winona Ryder impression, with her accent and diction and all, and to me that's a not-great warning sign in terms of any potential depth, here.
posted by rokusan at 11:00 AM on January 19, 2018 [2 favorites]
As for the TV version? Well, it's really hard to tell from a trailer if this really gets Heathers completely wrong, or if the trailer just gets Heathers completely wrong, so I will reserve judgement on that. Trailers can be really deceptive and not indicative of the work, after all.
That said, Grace Victoria Cox seems to be doing little more than a (very good, admittedly) Winona Ryder impression, with her accent and diction and all, and to me that's a not-great warning sign in terms of any potential depth, here.
posted by rokusan at 11:00 AM on January 19, 2018 [2 favorites]
Yeah, anyone who comes away from the movie wanting to be a Heather is...a sociopath, basically.
It's understandable, in-movie, that Veronica starts out wanting to be in the clique, because she's 16-17 years old. But, from the start of the movie, she's uncomfortable with that choice. It's one reason it's not lazy to make Martha Dunstock so abject a figure--some of those other kids you could more easily rationalize pushing around, but the pure gratuitous cruelty of the opening sequence to someone so helpless should tell the viewer that these are bad people. (Or, rather, Heather Chandler is cruel, green-Heather follows her out of envy of her position, and yellow-Heather is too cowardly to do anything but follow her friends.)
It seems like these changes also de-complicate J.D. as a villain. I often want to make every fourteen-year-old girl sit down and watch the movie, so that they can grasp (a) what garbage Byronic boyfriends often turn out to be and (b) what a terrible strategy rebelling-via-boyfriend is--but not until after first seeing what the appeal is. If he indeed is just a monster from the beginning, the whole thing is reduced.
posted by praemunire at 11:23 AM on January 19, 2018 [18 favorites]
It's understandable, in-movie, that Veronica starts out wanting to be in the clique, because she's 16-17 years old. But, from the start of the movie, she's uncomfortable with that choice. It's one reason it's not lazy to make Martha Dunstock so abject a figure--some of those other kids you could more easily rationalize pushing around, but the pure gratuitous cruelty of the opening sequence to someone so helpless should tell the viewer that these are bad people. (Or, rather, Heather Chandler is cruel, green-Heather follows her out of envy of her position, and yellow-Heather is too cowardly to do anything but follow her friends.)
It seems like these changes also de-complicate J.D. as a villain. I often want to make every fourteen-year-old girl sit down and watch the movie, so that they can grasp (a) what garbage Byronic boyfriends often turn out to be and (b) what a terrible strategy rebelling-via-boyfriend is--but not until after first seeing what the appeal is. If he indeed is just a monster from the beginning, the whole thing is reduced.
posted by praemunire at 11:23 AM on January 19, 2018 [18 favorites]
Another thought over lunch: The "I thought the Heathers were the heroes" spin feels really weird given that the trailer drops a fat joke and a nonbinary trans joke in the early seconds, and continues the jokes in more than half of the speaking lines. They're played as fools from the start. The adults who express support for them are played for fools. Maybe it's a good show with a very bad trailer, but someone obviously thought this cut was important as the first view.
I'm watching Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt and something I find errie is how closely Deirdre Robespierre--the second season foil for ex trophy wife, Ms. White--reminds me of Heather Chandler. I don't know if it's intentional, but they're both caricatures of smart and privileged people who devote their energy into humiliating others for status.
posted by GenderNullPointerException at 11:39 AM on January 19, 2018 [5 favorites]
I'm watching Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt and something I find errie is how closely Deirdre Robespierre--the second season foil for ex trophy wife, Ms. White--reminds me of Heather Chandler. I don't know if it's intentional, but they're both caricatures of smart and privileged people who devote their energy into humiliating others for status.
posted by GenderNullPointerException at 11:39 AM on January 19, 2018 [5 favorites]
A few thoughts:
1. Watching the trailer without sound, I absolutely love the new Heathers. I get all starry eyed about imagining a school run by the weirdos. And that the weirdos command respect without having to be a safe defanged version of themselves. And I hate that we have to watch them die.
2. This seems superfluous, since Mr. Robot is a Heathers sequel. Slater's reinvention of the JD character as an anarchist hacker is spot on. And once I made that connection, I realized the show was probably never going to be my jam. So later character development cannot dissuade me.
3. Man I miss Scream Queens. It hits the same bubbly notes.
posted by politikitty at 12:00 PM on January 19, 2018 [5 favorites]
1. Watching the trailer without sound, I absolutely love the new Heathers. I get all starry eyed about imagining a school run by the weirdos. And that the weirdos command respect without having to be a safe defanged version of themselves. And I hate that we have to watch them die.
2. This seems superfluous, since Mr. Robot is a Heathers sequel. Slater's reinvention of the JD character as an anarchist hacker is spot on. And once I made that connection, I realized the show was probably never going to be my jam. So later character development cannot dissuade me.
3. Man I miss Scream Queens. It hits the same bubbly notes.
posted by politikitty at 12:00 PM on January 19, 2018 [5 favorites]
It's understandable, in-movie, that Veronica starts out wanting to be in the clique, because she's 16-17 years old.
Also, a nuance of teenage years that the original movie got really right is that Veronica wanted to be in the clique and accepted membership in it (even if conflicted) because at some point in her younger teenage years--via whatever perverse inscrutable logic controls teenage girl popularity--she was deemed eligible to be in the clique. Betty, for example, was not.
> It seems like these changes also de-complicate J.D. as a villain. I often want to make every fourteen-year-old girl sit down and watch the movie, so that they can grasp (a) what garbage Byronic boyfriends often turn out to be and (b) what a terrible strategy rebelling-via-boyfriend is--but not until after first seeing what the appeal is. If he indeed is just a monster from the beginning, the whole thing is reduced.
THISSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS.
posted by desuetude at 12:04 PM on January 19, 2018 [10 favorites]
Also, a nuance of teenage years that the original movie got really right is that Veronica wanted to be in the clique and accepted membership in it (even if conflicted) because at some point in her younger teenage years--via whatever perverse inscrutable logic controls teenage girl popularity--she was deemed eligible to be in the clique. Betty, for example, was not.
> It seems like these changes also de-complicate J.D. as a villain. I often want to make every fourteen-year-old girl sit down and watch the movie, so that they can grasp (a) what garbage Byronic boyfriends often turn out to be and (b) what a terrible strategy rebelling-via-boyfriend is--but not until after first seeing what the appeal is. If he indeed is just a monster from the beginning, the whole thing is reduced.
THISSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS.
posted by desuetude at 12:04 PM on January 19, 2018 [10 favorites]
I get all starry eyed about imagining a school run by the weirdos. And that the weirdos command respect without having to be a safe defanged version of themselves. And I hate that we have to watch them die.
But we don't, see. I'll admit that I'm not fond of the original film; I should have been part of the natural audience for it, because I hated high school (and still kind of do; the small crowd at my recent 35th high school reunion were mostly the kids who I couldn't stand two-thirds of my life ago), but I feel like Daniel Waters took the most risible aspects of various John Hughes teen dramedies and went all 3edgy5me on them and got way too enchanted with his own cleverness along the way. (His script for Batman Returns, maybe the most underappreciated superhero film ever, was much better.) And this looks to try to go 19edgy23errybody where no edgelord has edged before, with the kind of kids who are usually bullied being bullies.
I often want to make every fourteen-year-old girl sit down and watch the movie, so that they can grasp (a) what garbage Byronic boyfriends often turn out to be and (b) what a terrible strategy rebelling-via-boyfriend is
Have you seen Lady Bird?
posted by Halloween Jack at 12:31 PM on January 19, 2018 [2 favorites]
But we don't, see. I'll admit that I'm not fond of the original film; I should have been part of the natural audience for it, because I hated high school (and still kind of do; the small crowd at my recent 35th high school reunion were mostly the kids who I couldn't stand two-thirds of my life ago), but I feel like Daniel Waters took the most risible aspects of various John Hughes teen dramedies and went all 3edgy5me on them and got way too enchanted with his own cleverness along the way. (His script for Batman Returns, maybe the most underappreciated superhero film ever, was much better.) And this looks to try to go 19edgy23errybody where no edgelord has edged before, with the kind of kids who are usually bullied being bullies.
I often want to make every fourteen-year-old girl sit down and watch the movie, so that they can grasp (a) what garbage Byronic boyfriends often turn out to be and (b) what a terrible strategy rebelling-via-boyfriend is
Have you seen Lady Bird?
posted by Halloween Jack at 12:31 PM on January 19, 2018 [2 favorites]
But we don't, see.
I'm okay with the concept of recasting the bullied as the Mean Girls. It can be cathartic to imagine a world where you can be flawed and fucked up, but still deserving of being the central lead role. That's a deeper acceptance than just nice depictions where people don't treat marginalized people like crap, even though the world definitely needs our media to change in that regard.
The problem with the show is that it takes those Mean Girls and then brutally murders them. And it makes flippant jokes along the way that maybe they had it coming. As though they deserved it for being above their station.
So with the sound off, for the first half of the trailer, those Mean Girls are the stuff of Revenge Fantasy, and I want to see *that* show.
posted by politikitty at 1:46 PM on January 19, 2018 [5 favorites]
I'm okay with the concept of recasting the bullied as the Mean Girls. It can be cathartic to imagine a world where you can be flawed and fucked up, but still deserving of being the central lead role. That's a deeper acceptance than just nice depictions where people don't treat marginalized people like crap, even though the world definitely needs our media to change in that regard.
The problem with the show is that it takes those Mean Girls and then brutally murders them. And it makes flippant jokes along the way that maybe they had it coming. As though they deserved it for being above their station.
So with the sound off, for the first half of the trailer, those Mean Girls are the stuff of Revenge Fantasy, and I want to see *that* show.
posted by politikitty at 1:46 PM on January 19, 2018 [5 favorites]
I really thought we already satirized this pretty well with Jawbreaker.
Bleah, this series looks terribad. And count me as another fan of Scream Queens.
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 1:57 PM on January 19, 2018 [1 favorite]
Bleah, this series looks terribad. And count me as another fan of Scream Queens.
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 1:57 PM on January 19, 2018 [1 favorite]
I don't patronize bunny rabbits.
posted by mrzz at 2:27 PM on January 19, 2018 [5 favorites]
posted by mrzz at 2:27 PM on January 19, 2018 [5 favorites]
I'm okay with the concept of recasting the bullied as the Mean Girls.
My take (having watched the trailer twice) is that it's recasting the bullied as the Mean Girls while using all of the lazy stereotype signifiers which are used to marginalize those groups in the first place. Look! It's a sassy overcompensating fat woman! Look! It's a nonbinary person performed as a gay man with the gay voice(tm) grabbing attention! (Combining two different anti-nonbinary stereotypes in a few seconds.)
There's a fair bit of discussion in SFF circles about how dystopias that rely on making an oppressed group the dictators just doesn't work, and this trailer demonstrates why.
posted by GenderNullPointerException at 2:35 PM on January 19, 2018 [7 favorites]
My take (having watched the trailer twice) is that it's recasting the bullied as the Mean Girls while using all of the lazy stereotype signifiers which are used to marginalize those groups in the first place. Look! It's a sassy overcompensating fat woman! Look! It's a nonbinary person performed as a gay man with the gay voice(tm) grabbing attention! (Combining two different anti-nonbinary stereotypes in a few seconds.)
There's a fair bit of discussion in SFF circles about how dystopias that rely on making an oppressed group the dictators just doesn't work, and this trailer demonstrates why.
posted by GenderNullPointerException at 2:35 PM on January 19, 2018 [7 favorites]
The problem with the show is that it takes those Mean Girls and then brutally murders them. And it makes flippant jokes along the way that maybe they had it coming. As though they deserved it for being above their station.
This pegs what makes me uneasy about it.
On the one hand, I would love a show that points out that marginalized people can be assholes, and goes into the twisted ethics of "anti-asshole murder spree."
On the other, I don't yet trust any mainstream media (and maybe not any weird tiny indie media) org to differentiate between "they were killed because they were assholes" and "they were killed because they were uppity."
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 2:47 PM on January 19, 2018 [3 favorites]
This pegs what makes me uneasy about it.
On the one hand, I would love a show that points out that marginalized people can be assholes, and goes into the twisted ethics of "anti-asshole murder spree."
On the other, I don't yet trust any mainstream media (and maybe not any weird tiny indie media) org to differentiate between "they were killed because they were assholes" and "they were killed because they were uppity."
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 2:47 PM on January 19, 2018 [3 favorites]
How is this show anything but Revenge of the White Male Supremacists?
The plot reads like an allegory of the rise of Trump -- do any of the murder victims resemble Hillary? or Obama?
It would be interesting to know who the financial backers are.
posted by jamjam at 2:58 PM on January 19, 2018 [2 favorites]
The plot reads like an allegory of the rise of Trump -- do any of the murder victims resemble Hillary? or Obama?
It would be interesting to know who the financial backers are.
posted by jamjam at 2:58 PM on January 19, 2018 [2 favorites]
I'm going to call it now. At some point in the series, Heather Duke will be revealed as a feminine gay "transtrender." I make that call now because the trailer already incorporates multiple points of TERF/Gender Critical rhetoric about nonbinary trans people.
Maybe I'll see an episode recap and be pleasantly surprised. I doubt it.
posted by GenderNullPointerException at 3:03 PM on January 19, 2018 [4 favorites]
Maybe I'll see an episode recap and be pleasantly surprised. I doubt it.
posted by GenderNullPointerException at 3:03 PM on January 19, 2018 [4 favorites]
Massacre at Central High... they’re pretty different until you get to the end and yeah, that is more or less the exact same ending
artw: It's been a while, but as I recall being pointed out to me, there were many scene-by-scene dialogue parallels.
The ending was kind of tacked on, because the sole investor insisted that there be explosions.
posted by StickyCarpet at 3:04 PM on January 19, 2018
artw: It's been a while, but as I recall being pointed out to me, there were many scene-by-scene dialogue parallels.
The ending was kind of tacked on, because the sole investor insisted that there be explosions.
posted by StickyCarpet at 3:04 PM on January 19, 2018
My daughter is named Veronica, partly because of this movie, partly because of Veronica Mars. I do not have a good feeling about this series. Maybe when she is a little older, we will fire up the last working VCR in the house and watch my well-worn copy, the way it was meant to be.
posted by candyland at 3:33 PM on January 19, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by candyland at 3:33 PM on January 19, 2018 [1 favorite]
This looks so bad it literally makes me angry. Who exactly is the target audience for this? The aesthetics and inclusion of queer and body-positive characters seems like an attempt to pander to the Tumblr generation-- many of whom love the original movie-- but I don't think making them the Heathers (who, regardless of your interpretation of the original film, were not likable characters) is going to win them many fans.
posted by noxperpetua at 3:44 PM on January 19, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by noxperpetua at 3:44 PM on January 19, 2018 [2 favorites]
I was a kid when the original came out, and now I'm a parent. I think if this version appealed to me now, it wouldn't be doing its job.
That said, it doesn't look appealing to me. Hopefully it messes with expectations in a similar way to the original, but the mere fact of its existence today leaves me doubtful.
posted by subocoyne at 3:47 PM on January 19, 2018
That said, it doesn't look appealing to me. Hopefully it messes with expectations in a similar way to the original, but the mere fact of its existence today leaves me doubtful.
posted by subocoyne at 3:47 PM on January 19, 2018
I've never seen Heathers, but I'm amused that this series represents a 180° turn by the channel that, until this year, was a guys themed outlet called Spike TV. And was originally a country music channel.
My favorite version of TNN/Spike/Paramount was the brief period after Viacom decided to end the country music format, but hadn't decided on new branding, so changed The Nashville Network to The National Network and just aired old TV shows. It let me watch The A-Team at lunch!
posted by riruro at 5:34 PM on January 19, 2018 [2 favorites]
My favorite version of TNN/Spike/Paramount was the brief period after Viacom decided to end the country music format, but hadn't decided on new branding, so changed The Nashville Network to The National Network and just aired old TV shows. It let me watch The A-Team at lunch!
posted by riruro at 5:34 PM on January 19, 2018 [2 favorites]
Thanks, politikitty, for helping me put into words what about this trailer I found appealing. Definitely not having known the plot of the original Heathers made some difference in my reception.
posted by divabat at 6:00 PM on January 19, 2018
posted by divabat at 6:00 PM on January 19, 2018
Wow. This should go well with the demographic who couldn't correctly identify the villain in the Ghostbusters reboot.
posted by stet at 6:35 PM on January 19, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by stet at 6:35 PM on January 19, 2018 [2 favorites]
There are so many more important conversations, but:
Red Box?
I don't get how you can show it on TV and be all content puckered on youtube? Red Box means you've got naughty content. I mean, it was sucky and derivative and as many pointed out, problematically Bad America. But that's not worth red-flagging, is it? All seemed within safe harbor.
I mean, not to bust the hype.
posted by Ogre Lawless at 2:09 AM on January 20, 2018 [1 favorite]
Red Box?
I don't get how you can show it on TV and be all content puckered on youtube? Red Box means you've got naughty content. I mean, it was sucky and derivative and as many pointed out, problematically Bad America. But that's not worth red-flagging, is it? All seemed within safe harbor.
I mean, not to bust the hype.
posted by Ogre Lawless at 2:09 AM on January 20, 2018 [1 favorite]
If they really wanted to capture the essence of the original, Heather Chandler should be played by Tomi Lahren.
No, not at all. Tomi Lahren is a moron and Heather Chandler was a supremely driven and smart individual who was destroyed by a society who told her her only worth was as a pretty girl who out competed the other pretty girls. Which she took to heart as only a real Type A person can. Veronica was a trick- you sympathized with her until you realized she was a moronic follower which was supposed to make you think about your own self and you ability to make sensible decisions in the face of peer pressure. JD represented all of our secret desires to burn it, burn it all down. The parents were the horrible fate all of our characters faced if they failed to blaze their own trails.
I implore people to watch the original before caring too much here. It doesn't matter if the Heathers are the most popular mainstream kids or the most popular in the theater clique or merely the most popular kids in the outcast clique or the clique in the parents, the story is fractal.
posted by fshgrl at 2:00 AM on January 21, 2018
No, not at all. Tomi Lahren is a moron and Heather Chandler was a supremely driven and smart individual who was destroyed by a society who told her her only worth was as a pretty girl who out competed the other pretty girls. Which she took to heart as only a real Type A person can. Veronica was a trick- you sympathized with her until you realized she was a moronic follower which was supposed to make you think about your own self and you ability to make sensible decisions in the face of peer pressure. JD represented all of our secret desires to burn it, burn it all down. The parents were the horrible fate all of our characters faced if they failed to blaze their own trails.
I implore people to watch the original before caring too much here. It doesn't matter if the Heathers are the most popular mainstream kids or the most popular in the theater clique or merely the most popular kids in the outcast clique or the clique in the parents, the story is fractal.
posted by fshgrl at 2:00 AM on January 21, 2018
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posted by roger ackroyd at 9:21 PM on January 18, 2018 [13 favorites]