Justice for Barb. No, Billy. No, Wiebe!

February 2, 2018 12:14 PM

After extensive analysis of the videos, King of Kong's Billy Mitchell's Donkey Kong high score, the famous "King of Kong" tape, has been vacated by Donkey Kong Forums. He is alleged to have used a MAME emulator for his scores, instead of an authentic arcade cabinet, as well as possibly using additional software to assist his runs. In King of Kong, he successfully challenged Stephen Wiebe's scores on the possibility that Wiebe's cabinet's board had been modified. (Billy Mitchell did not hold the current high score and the challenged score is still on Twin Galaxies.)
posted by flibbertigibbet (41 comments total)

Q: Is this a a 13-year-old fight about a 37-year-old arcade game?

A: Yes.
posted by flibbertigibbet at 12:16 PM on February 2, 2018 [50 favorites]

So lemme make sure I have this straight:
Is the high score competition back on?...

...

...LIKE DONKEY KONG?!?
posted by Strange Interlude at 12:21 PM on February 2, 2018 [64 favorites]

There's a Donkey Kong kill screen coming up, if anybody wants to watch.
posted by uncleozzy at 12:27 PM on February 2, 2018 [29 favorites]

I saw this movie a long time ago; this is the video that the mean bad guy sneakily hands to the older woman going to the convention like "make sure they see this, okay?" that was super obviously fake, right? Not that I'm not glad they've proved it, I am, he was a gross mean sneaky cheater (as portrayed by the documentary which other people I've heard say is a correct characterization), just want to make sure I have the characters straight.
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 12:28 PM on February 2, 2018 [3 favorites]

yeah, Billy is the guy with the super long, lustrous hair and the goatee who dresses and looks like he's the DnD version of Patrick Bateman, Wiebe is the affable housedad who got obsessed with Donkey Kong instead of craft beer or football
posted by runt at 12:31 PM on February 2, 2018 [16 favorites]

Is the high score competition back on?...

...

...LIKE DONKEY KONG?!?

Ok, you're done, wrap it up.
posted by RolandOfEld at 12:33 PM on February 2, 2018 [8 favorites]

As pointed out on ResetEra, it's worth noting that Mitchell's witness to the >1m games is Todd Rogers, who has recently had a record disputed and stripped away as well.
posted by Monster_Zero at 12:35 PM on February 2, 2018 [5 favorites]

Chasing Ghosts: Beyond the Arcade is another documentary worth mentioning regarding these same folks, games and records and while it's notoriously difficult to track down (it was only available as an illegal download for some years after its completion) it is available these days on some streaming platforms and online stores. It never got the acclaim that King of Kong did, but if you consult search engines you may find out interesting things about the veracity of one film's storytelling/editing compared to the other.
posted by trackofalljades at 12:41 PM on February 2, 2018 [3 favorites]

[Rogers had] a record disputed and stripped away as well.

“Who I am, and what I have done with my life will not be defined by a score that I produced live, that others do not believe because they were not there,” Rogers wrote. “For those who have shown me unwavering support over the last few months, thank you. I will continue play games I enjoy and have fun doing so. After all, isn’t that what gaming is about?”

wow golly do I hate this gaslighting concern troll

'no, ur the ones taking this too seriously, nerds'
posted by runt at 12:43 PM on February 2, 2018 [4 favorites]

More on Rogers: A man accused of cheating at video games may lose his Guinness World Record. This is his record for the Atari 2600 game Dragster, he posted a time people think is literally impossible with the software. There's also a disputed Centipede score.
posted by Nelson at 12:47 PM on February 2, 2018 [4 favorites]

Man, do I ever wish that I could send a message to myself forty years in the past--that lonely, cripplingly-self-conscious teen nerd--just to say, look, you think you have it bad, there are people who are still going to be playing these games, and trying to set the high score, and lying about it.
posted by Halloween Jack at 12:51 PM on February 2, 2018 [22 favorites]

I mean, I can sorta almost see the appeal of having a comfort-food game like Donkey Kong that you just play over and over again. And having the best, or even one of the best, high scores in the world would be pretty neat.

But I cannot fathom what kind of life choices get you to the place where you'd feel any satisfaction whatsoever about cheating at Donkey Kong.
posted by straight at 12:59 PM on February 2, 2018 [6 favorites]

Dude owns an American flag tie.
posted by uncleozzy at 1:02 PM on February 2, 2018 [11 favorites]

Maybe you somehow convince yourself that the legitimate score isn't your real score? You start telling yourself that really your score would be X if only [insert one or more excuses here]. That legit score doesn't reflect how good you really are; you really play better than that. Your real score ought to be X.

And somehow you never take a step back to look at yourself and what you're doing.
posted by straight at 1:04 PM on February 2, 2018 [4 favorites]

Oh yes Chasing Ghosts is a must-see if you enjoyed King of Kong. It's touching and a little bit painful. It's all about these record-setting video gamers, having grown to middle age, struggling with the fact that their teenage accomplishment is the best thing they'll ever do.
posted by rlk at 1:10 PM on February 2, 2018 [7 favorites]

But I cannot fathom what kind of life choices get you to the place where you'd feel any satisfaction whatsoever about cheating at Donkey Kong.

A lot of the people involved here racked up their high scores in the actual arcades, back in the day, and have never known a life where they were anything but 'highest scoring __________ player.' There was a brief window of time, early 80s, before the crash, where kids with game records could score how-to book contracts, occasionally get on TV. Hell, they got on the cover of Life magazine. There were ideas being floated of professional video gaming leagues, with contracts and sponsorships -- these kids thought they'd be dropping out of high school and being famous and cool and playing video games forever. Obviously, that didn't happen -- but for a moment, they thought it might.

After, some of the kids in that magazine shoot went on to work in the industry. Some went on to have totally normal lives, maybe collecting games or meeting up with other players occasionally. Some, like Billy Mitchell, tried to keep living in that moment for the rest of their lives.
posted by halation at 1:13 PM on February 2, 2018 [6 favorites]

But I cannot fathom what kind of life choices get you to the place where you'd feel any satisfaction whatsoever about cheating at Donkey Kong.

Steve Wiebe : Mario :: Billy Mitchell : Wario
posted by Strange Interlude at 1:14 PM on February 2, 2018 [6 favorites]

But I cannot fathom what kind of life choices get you to the place where you'd feel any satisfaction whatsoever about cheating at Donkey Kong.

If you haven't seen the aforementioned The King of Kong: A Fistful of Quarters movie, you should. It's an interesting glimpse into the world of high score arcade gamers, and is about a regular shmoe in the early 2000s deciding to try for the Donkey Kong high score. He runs up against Mitchell, the long-reigning champ who set the record in the mid-80s, and the self-appointed "official" scoring organization Twin Galaxies that has long ties to Mitchell and is run by his old friends. The entire movie is about how Mitchell uses his ties and influence to stack the deck against the challenger, even having the challenger's first high score invalidated on questionable grounds.

If this is the tape from the movie, it appears right after the challenger beats Mitchell's score again, this time in public. A tape magically appears that purports to show Mitchell getting an even higher score, though it's very clear that the tape is highly suspicious. I believe someone in the movie even notes that this method of entry violates Twin Galaxy's own rules, but they allow it anyway and declare Mitchell is still the champ.

So to answer you, it's the kind of person who has built their entire life and image around being the best Donkey Kong player in the world, and who has had several decades of fame and...uh, not fortune, but a career from it.
posted by Sangermaine at 1:17 PM on February 2, 2018 [11 favorites]

there's also a bit of a parallel to modern eSports - there was, for example, a huge cheating controversy that affected the CounterStrike scene well... repeatedly lol

anytime capitalism intersects with something you love, expect a race to the bottom of ethics and standards until some outside body (like a league) implements regulatory controls (ie fairness measures)
posted by runt at 1:21 PM on February 2, 2018 [6 favorites]

"… grown to middle age, struggling with the fact that their teenage accomplishment is the best thing they'll ever do."

Four touchdowns in a single game…
posted by Pinback at 1:52 PM on February 2, 2018 [10 favorites]

Video game documentaries are really getting to be a thing.

PS - This is a good one, too.
posted by Big Al 8000 at 2:01 PM on February 2, 2018

In King of Kong there is a scene with Billy Mitchell in the supermarket. His company has some sort of spaghetti sauce or something, and while talking to camera about something unrelated he casually rearranges the sauces on the shelves pushing competitors sauces to the back of the shelves and bringing his forward. You don't even notice it unless you are really paying attention to the documentary, but for me that moment was central to the mind of Billy Mitchell and how he operates.
posted by drnick at 2:10 PM on February 2, 2018 [23 favorites]

An unfortunate situation, but we have to acknowledge that there is only one way to prevent cheating in these games.

We need to only play Donkey Kong using real ramps and an actual gorilla.
posted by happyroach at 2:31 PM on February 2, 2018 [23 favorites]

Video game documentaries are really getting to be a thing.

If you find video game documentaries to be your sort of jam, I recommend Drew Scanlon's Cloth Map and Danny O'Dwyer's Noclip both of which are great ongoing series of documentaries related to video games.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 2:31 PM on February 2, 2018 [3 favorites]

Crimony, it's getting to be like the Tour de France.
posted by rhizome at 2:54 PM on February 2, 2018 [2 favorites]

From the Life image linked: Night Shift was the Fonz being a pimp in Detroit, right? Or am I thinking of something else....? Also, I am old.
posted by which_chick at 3:10 PM on February 2, 2018 [1 favorite]

You are correct, with Michael Keaton, and Shelly Long as the escort!
posted by rhizome at 3:14 PM on February 2, 2018

Somewhere, Mr Awesome is having the last laugh over the Chumpitization of his nemesis.
posted by dr_dank at 4:09 PM on February 2, 2018 [2 favorites]

"As long as you're keeping score, s the embody is going to cheat."
-Jack LaLanne
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 4:23 PM on February 2, 2018 [2 favorites]

"… grown to middle age, struggling with the fact that their teenage accomplishment is the best thing they'll ever do."

That nollie variable heel flip over the fun box at that skateboarding competition.
posted by klausman at 4:25 PM on February 2, 2018 [2 favorites]

Mentioning Todd Rogers again - it's not just Dragster, and not just Centipede either. He had a number of scores that were all viewed as highly suspect by a number of people. A Barnstorming record that was faster than someone could hit when they removed all obstacles from the course. A Grand Prix record that was only reproduced when car collisions were completely turned off. Multiple game scores that were above what multiple other people had hit as a "max out".

A Kaboom score that, due to the way the game scores, would require a player who had just been playing at a level beyond anyone else for a couple hours would have to suddenly lose in a manner that implies no skill at all. Then there were at least a half dozen that would have taken 80+ hour marathons.

Combine this with repeated requests from multiple people for video evidence - or live play - to back up any of these scores that was never furnished.

I think this demonstrates that the new management of Twin Galaxies is actually trying to clean up their score database with the new dispute system and bring credibility back. All new scores require video evidence, and peer review and acceptance of records.
posted by evilangela at 4:37 PM on February 2, 2018 [7 favorites]

Then there were at least a half dozen that would have taken 80+ hour marathons.

I believe there was one that would have required 300 hours of gameplay... on an Atari 2600 game that has no pause feature.
posted by parliboy at 5:38 PM on February 2, 2018 [1 favorite]

There was a brief window of time, early 80s, before the crash, where kids with game records could score how-to book contracts, occasionally get on TV.

One was even recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Xur and the Ko-dan Armada.
posted by brianrobot at 6:19 PM on February 2, 2018 [29 favorites]

This is why I stick to bowling.
posted by grumpybear69 at 8:12 PM on February 2, 2018

It depends on the game, but in some marathons players will make sure to gain extra lives so they can take bathroom breaks by leaving the game unattended and dying repeatedly.

Re: King of Kong, it seems it has to be taken with a grain of salt; a post on its flaws by Jason Scott, and another (long) one.
posted by Monday, stony Monday at 8:16 PM on February 2, 2018 [3 favorites]

Having read those links, they seem very long on accusations (and unrelated rantings, musings, and recollections) and very short on facts. I'm not discounting these accusations, and the documentary probably did play with the "truth" as all documentaries do, but they're serious enough that they warrant more basis than just the author's say-so.
posted by Sangermaine at 9:22 AM on February 3, 2018 [1 favorite]

We need to only play Donkey Kong using real ramps and an actual gorilla.

Why do you hate gorillas so?
posted by GenjiandProust at 10:36 AM on February 3, 2018 [1 favorite]

It depends on the game, but in some marathons players will make sure to gain extra lives so they can take bathroom breaks by leaving the game unattended and dying repeatedly.

A few years back, I had the opportunity to watch large portions of a Joust marathon that was streamed live back in the early days of Twitch. (Actually, it was posted here, and several of us followed it.) The guy did this frequently, so he could earn himself bathroom breaks or even naps from time to time.

Ultimately, the only way to be sure a given run is legitimate is to do it in person, and on a known-good machine. Sending in a tape isn't good enough, there could be anything going on with the sender's hardware setup. As Mitchell and Rogers have demonstrated, it doesn't matter how minor the achievement is, some people will chase it just to have that tiny accolade tied to their name.
posted by JHarris at 7:40 PM on February 3, 2018 [1 favorite]

I must be the only person who watched King of Kong and didn’t come away thinking Billy Mitchell was slime. He was the only one who seemed aware that the whole affair was like a pro-wrestling match, and was okay being the Heel to Weibe’s Face because it would get him some publicity for his business.
posted by um at 9:54 PM on February 3, 2018 [2 favorites]

I believe there was one that would have required 300 hours of gameplay... on an Atari 2600 game that has no pause feature.

Yeah, and? Some folks like amphetamines and Texas catheters.
posted by jackbishop at 1:01 PM on February 4, 2018 [1 favorite]

I must be the only person who watched King of Kong and didn’t come away thinking Billy Mitchell was slime. He was the only one who seemed aware that the whole affair was like a pro-wrestling match, and was okay being the Heel to Weibe’s Face because it would get him some publicity for his business.

Except for the fact that the competition wasn't a scripted event, but a very real and demanding feat of hand-eye coordination, mental focus, and physical endurance. You might not accept it as a proper competitive sport, but these guys absolutely take it seriously. Even though there's a certain level of theatrics involved, it's not all kayfabe. Billy Mitchell wasn't just putting on a show: He actually cheated at the game in a very real way, and his record was contested in the same fashion, because everyone involved sees the competition as real.
posted by Strange Interlude at 5:32 AM on February 5, 2018 [3 favorites]