One task was to initial that you initialed off another task
February 3, 2018 10:14 PM Subscribe
'Seeing someone cry at work is becoming normal': Employees say Whole Foods is using 'scorecards' to punish them.
The new system, called order-to-shelf, or OTS, has a strict set of procedures for purchasing, displaying, and storing products on store shelves and in back rooms. To make sure stores comply, Whole Foods relies on "scorecards" that evaluate everything from the accuracy of signage to the proper recording of theft, or "shrink."
Whole Foods employees say stores are suffering from food shortages because of a newly implemented inventory-management system called "order-to-shelf," or OTS.
"In the beginning, we actually had a checklist where one task was to initial that you initialed off another task," said one employee who was involved in OTS training at several East Coast stores. She said that duty was quickly dropped, but that it was emblematic of how the implementation of OTS has gone.
Previously on Metafilter: Amazon's purchase go Whole Foods, and more.
Whole Foods employees say stores are suffering from food shortages because of a newly implemented inventory-management system called "order-to-shelf," or OTS.
"In the beginning, we actually had a checklist where one task was to initial that you initialed off another task," said one employee who was involved in OTS training at several East Coast stores. She said that duty was quickly dropped, but that it was emblematic of how the implementation of OTS has gone.
Previously on Metafilter: Amazon's purchase go Whole Foods, and more.
Amazon treats their expensive-to-recruit software engineers like totally disposable cogs in the machine. They're famous for burning people out in a couple years. You gotta figure they'll value their retail employees even less.
posted by ryanrs at 10:33 PM on February 3, 2018 [31 favorites]
posted by ryanrs at 10:33 PM on February 3, 2018 [31 favorites]
An interesting quote:
That, of course, may be deception, but if the mandate for the change had come from the parent I’d imagine that BI could have gotten an on-the-record quote about it.
posted by Going To Maine at 10:38 PM on February 3, 2018 [5 favorites]
Under Whole Foods’ old purchasing system, buyers at the store and regional levels had more power to decide what to sell in their stores. With OTS, Whole Foods’ corporate office in Austin is making more of those decisions. This approach is bringing Whole Foods’ business model more in line with those at conventional supermarkets like Kroger and Safeway.
It remains to be seen whether this business model — and OTS — will work for Whole Foods. Holbrook believes it will. He said Amazon, which purchased Whole Foods last year for $13.7 billion, would be able to help Whole Foods work out the kinks with OTS.A system that gives your employees panic attacks is no good, but the basic principle of it doesn’t seem unsound. It also reads like the change hasn’t gone through Amazon. It might be part of some sort of planned future Amazonification, but the only references to the new parent are hopeful that they would come in and make the system better, not that they inflicted the change.
That, of course, may be deception, but if the mandate for the change had come from the parent I’d imagine that BI could have gotten an on-the-record quote about it.
posted by Going To Maine at 10:38 PM on February 3, 2018 [5 favorites]
From the 1st article:
Many employees are also hopeful that Amazon will fix the new system.And from the 2nd link:
"We all just hope that Amazon will walk into some stores and see all the holes on the shelf," a 12-year employee of a Midwest Whole Foods said.
Some employees are hoping Amazon fixes Whole Foods' out-of-stock problems.posted by el io at 10:44 PM on February 3, 2018 [45 favorites]
"A lot of team members are hoping Amazon saves us, saying, 'I can't wait until Amazon learns how much money Whole Foods is losing with order-to-shelf,'" one employee said.
"You would think that with Amazon's reputation for being a brutal employer that they would be behind the system," he added. "But they are not. This is an entirely Whole Foods-driven problem.
Well, birds of a feather...
posted by pwnguin at 10:50 PM on February 3, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by pwnguin at 10:50 PM on February 3, 2018 [1 favorite]
Remember that story about how the young Jeff Bezos made his aunt cry by calculating how much time every cigarette she smoked shaved off her lifespan?
He must've really enjoyed that.
posted by jamjam at 11:01 PM on February 3, 2018 [12 favorites]
He must've really enjoyed that.
posted by jamjam at 11:01 PM on February 3, 2018 [12 favorites]
When I lived in the Bay Area last our local Whole Foods was staffed entirely by stoners, people who talked about chemtrails to customer and trustafarians. I can't even imagine how this has worked out there. I kind of wish I still lived there so I could see.
posted by fshgrl at 11:29 PM on February 3, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by fshgrl at 11:29 PM on February 3, 2018 [3 favorites]
Amazon may well be evil, but OTS doesn’t appear to be their project...
posted by frumiousb at 11:39 PM on February 3, 2018 [10 favorites]
posted by frumiousb at 11:39 PM on February 3, 2018 [10 favorites]
Yeah this wasn't Amazon's doing, this was something Whole Foods did to themselves, by themselves, though it's possible it was related in some way to the sale (the timing is pretty suspect).
I'm all about supply chain nerdery, but this isn't even SCM or "lean" done well. Either they just totally screwed the pooch and are flailing around (in which case, why not just go back to whatever the old way of doing things was?) or they're executing to a plan, but the plan is really bad.
In the latter case, it could be that they horrifically underpriced the cost of a stockout, which is an important parameter in setting inventory levels. In most consumer-oriented industries, the cost of a stockout is assumed to be much greater than the carrying cost of the item, so it makes good sense to always have ample stock on the shelf, even if it results in occasional waste. (This is not cutting edge SCM theory or anything, this is 1970s stuff, maybe older.) Reducing waste and inventory costs seems like a good idea, but there's a point (which is surprisingly straightforward to calculate, if you've done the operations research to know the numbers that feed into it) where the waste becomes acceptable, necessary really, in order to maintain the level of service your customers demand and will keep them from going to your competition. Clearly, WF is below that on an ongoing basis right now.
That's the "incompetence" theory; there's also another option... malice.
Maybe WF management intentionally made the supply chain horrendously lean, knowing it would result in stockouts, because all they cared about was driving costs down in the short run—since driving down costs is the fastest way to increase profitability. The sudden decrease in costs and consequent increase in profit would make the business look more attractive during a sale, and unlike other forms of destructive cost-cutting that would be easy to notice (firing lots of people, closing stores, etc.) they could say the profits were all due to their genius SCM optimization system. Only after the sale went through would the damage become clear, at which point they're all sitting pretty with AMZ shares and can wave their hands and say "well hey it turns out this supply chain stuff is hard, who knew?!" and pass the whole thing to Amazon to unfuck.
posted by Kadin2048 at 11:42 PM on February 3, 2018 [153 favorites]
I'm all about supply chain nerdery, but this isn't even SCM or "lean" done well. Either they just totally screwed the pooch and are flailing around (in which case, why not just go back to whatever the old way of doing things was?) or they're executing to a plan, but the plan is really bad.
In the latter case, it could be that they horrifically underpriced the cost of a stockout, which is an important parameter in setting inventory levels. In most consumer-oriented industries, the cost of a stockout is assumed to be much greater than the carrying cost of the item, so it makes good sense to always have ample stock on the shelf, even if it results in occasional waste. (This is not cutting edge SCM theory or anything, this is 1970s stuff, maybe older.) Reducing waste and inventory costs seems like a good idea, but there's a point (which is surprisingly straightforward to calculate, if you've done the operations research to know the numbers that feed into it) where the waste becomes acceptable, necessary really, in order to maintain the level of service your customers demand and will keep them from going to your competition. Clearly, WF is below that on an ongoing basis right now.
That's the "incompetence" theory; there's also another option... malice.
Maybe WF management intentionally made the supply chain horrendously lean, knowing it would result in stockouts, because all they cared about was driving costs down in the short run—since driving down costs is the fastest way to increase profitability. The sudden decrease in costs and consequent increase in profit would make the business look more attractive during a sale, and unlike other forms of destructive cost-cutting that would be easy to notice (firing lots of people, closing stores, etc.) they could say the profits were all due to their genius SCM optimization system. Only after the sale went through would the damage become clear, at which point they're all sitting pretty with AMZ shares and can wave their hands and say "well hey it turns out this supply chain stuff is hard, who knew?!" and pass the whole thing to Amazon to unfuck.
posted by Kadin2048 at 11:42 PM on February 3, 2018 [153 favorites]
Another example of why unions are necessary.
posted by Beholder at 12:14 AM on February 4, 2018 [52 favorites]
posted by Beholder at 12:14 AM on February 4, 2018 [52 favorites]
Why GOOD, STRONG unions and an informed workforce are necessary. The job that made me cry nearly every day for five years was a union job, but SEIU is a joke.
posted by elsietheeel at 12:18 AM on February 4, 2018 [45 favorites]
posted by elsietheeel at 12:18 AM on February 4, 2018 [45 favorites]
Burn it to the ground, one outlet at a time.
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 12:44 AM on February 4, 2018
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 12:44 AM on February 4, 2018
Looking at the list makes me think that this task could be automated one day. Reminds me of the TED talk, “How we’re teaching computers to understand pictures”. Decades from now, visual details such as whether it has a sticker of a date or price for the list could be run over by a computer.
Well, seems like people are better off looking for a more long term job if you ask me if they can. Because if they don’t? Well, sorry, but I don’t know.
posted by RoboticForest at 2:24 AM on February 4, 2018
Well, seems like people are better off looking for a more long term job if you ask me if they can. Because if they don’t? Well, sorry, but I don’t know.
posted by RoboticForest at 2:24 AM on February 4, 2018
Well, seems like people are better off looking for a more long term job if you ask me if they can. Because if they don’t? Well, sorry, but I don’t know.
The problem is the job, not the victim that stays with it, or the chain of people victimized by the job.
posted by sebastienbailard at 2:57 AM on February 4, 2018 [38 favorites]
The problem is the job, not the victim that stays with it, or the chain of people victimized by the job.
posted by sebastienbailard at 2:57 AM on February 4, 2018 [38 favorites]
The problem is the job
Really. I know of competent, friendly Market Basket employees who have been doing checkout with the chain for over 20 years. Retail grocery doesn't have to be just a starter job.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 3:37 AM on February 4, 2018 [54 favorites]
Really. I know of competent, friendly Market Basket employees who have been doing checkout with the chain for over 20 years. Retail grocery doesn't have to be just a starter job.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 3:37 AM on February 4, 2018 [54 favorites]
Well, seems like people are better off looking for a more long term job if you ask me if they can. Because if they don’t? Well, sorry, but I don’t know.
Well, that should be no problem - there are millions of decent-paying jobs that are a natural transition from retail, evenly distributed through the US so that everyone who is making crappy retail wages can avoid relocation expenses. The presence of these totally unfilled jobs means that the displaced retail workers won't drive down wages for everyone else, either. Why, eventually Whole Foods will have to use robots because all their workers will leave!
No, wait, actually everyone should be terrified by the idea of a reserve labor army of desperate people whose retail jobs have gone up in smoke, because they'll drive down wages and working conditions for everyone else. "Oh, my job is safe" means nothing - you must picture dramatically increased competition for entry level jobs, which drives dramatically increased competition for the next tier up, which drives increased competition for the next tier, etc etc. Lots of desperate unemployed people is good for Jeff Bezos and his ilk because they own capital, but for ordinary people it's a bad thing.
On the one hand, the only real solution for these "disruptive" trash systems is unionization since they are so powerful and pervasive. On the other hand, for fuck's sake people should belt up and stop using them - just because they're powerful and evil doesn't mean that we all have to hand them our wallets. Unless you literally do not have other grocery options, you do not need to shop at Whole Foods. There are other sellers than Amazon. We survived before we could get $1 plastic crap next-day drop-shipped to us.
posted by Frowner at 4:21 AM on February 4, 2018 [94 favorites]
Well, that should be no problem - there are millions of decent-paying jobs that are a natural transition from retail, evenly distributed through the US so that everyone who is making crappy retail wages can avoid relocation expenses. The presence of these totally unfilled jobs means that the displaced retail workers won't drive down wages for everyone else, either. Why, eventually Whole Foods will have to use robots because all their workers will leave!
No, wait, actually everyone should be terrified by the idea of a reserve labor army of desperate people whose retail jobs have gone up in smoke, because they'll drive down wages and working conditions for everyone else. "Oh, my job is safe" means nothing - you must picture dramatically increased competition for entry level jobs, which drives dramatically increased competition for the next tier up, which drives increased competition for the next tier, etc etc. Lots of desperate unemployed people is good for Jeff Bezos and his ilk because they own capital, but for ordinary people it's a bad thing.
On the one hand, the only real solution for these "disruptive" trash systems is unionization since they are so powerful and pervasive. On the other hand, for fuck's sake people should belt up and stop using them - just because they're powerful and evil doesn't mean that we all have to hand them our wallets. Unless you literally do not have other grocery options, you do not need to shop at Whole Foods. There are other sellers than Amazon. We survived before we could get $1 plastic crap next-day drop-shipped to us.
posted by Frowner at 4:21 AM on February 4, 2018 [94 favorites]
I worked at Whole Foods from 1993 to 2011.
I saw the store grow from 6 stores to 400
I worked as:
Bagger
Cashier
Receiver
Closing Shift Manager
Exchange/Active Directory Admin
Regional IT person (literally every IT job)
Senior Network Engineer
I know every damn skeleton in that closet.
posted by Annika Cicada at 5:34 AM on February 4, 2018 [52 favorites]
I saw the store grow from 6 stores to 400
I worked as:
Bagger
Cashier
Receiver
Closing Shift Manager
Exchange/Active Directory Admin
Regional IT person (literally every IT job)
Senior Network Engineer
I know every damn skeleton in that closet.
posted by Annika Cicada at 5:34 AM on February 4, 2018 [52 favorites]
Okay. I have a thing against Whole Foods because of the way they treated my friend.
You see she was hired into customer service / returns because of her extensive business experience. But in WF you go in on probation and whether you stay or not isn't based on your experience and knowledge or current work. No it's a vote by your team if you "fit in" to their group personality. Basically, you have to make every one in your store or area agree that you're awesome.
My friend had huge business experience because she was in her 50's at this point. The rest of the store not as old. She is also very overweight.
Over the course of her trial, I watched this smart, funny, kind woman explode in stress. Her personal style skewed more and more feminine because it's this weird social thing in this world we're if you're a fat woman, you have to go all out fem and girly to be respected. She baked treats and turned herself in mental pretzels to get 20 and 30 something losers living with their parents to like her, because it didn't matter how good she was at her job if she didn't get an approval vote from even the asshole stock boy.
She was released from Whole Foods with high praise and enough recommendations to go onto be an minor executive at a huge telecommunications company, all because the cashiers didn't think she was "cool" enough.
So fuck Whole Foods.
posted by 80 Cats in a Dog Suit at 5:47 AM on February 4, 2018 [117 favorites]
You see she was hired into customer service / returns because of her extensive business experience. But in WF you go in on probation and whether you stay or not isn't based on your experience and knowledge or current work. No it's a vote by your team if you "fit in" to their group personality. Basically, you have to make every one in your store or area agree that you're awesome.
My friend had huge business experience because she was in her 50's at this point. The rest of the store not as old. She is also very overweight.
Over the course of her trial, I watched this smart, funny, kind woman explode in stress. Her personal style skewed more and more feminine because it's this weird social thing in this world we're if you're a fat woman, you have to go all out fem and girly to be respected. She baked treats and turned herself in mental pretzels to get 20 and 30 something losers living with their parents to like her, because it didn't matter how good she was at her job if she didn't get an approval vote from even the asshole stock boy.
She was released from Whole Foods with high praise and enough recommendations to go onto be an minor executive at a huge telecommunications company, all because the cashiers didn't think she was "cool" enough.
So fuck Whole Foods.
posted by 80 Cats in a Dog Suit at 5:47 AM on February 4, 2018 [117 favorites]
Precarity isn't going to build itself.
posted by doctornemo at 6:11 AM on February 4, 2018 [6 favorites]
posted by doctornemo at 6:11 AM on February 4, 2018 [6 favorites]
I think if we seized the assets of every CEO who made a fortune by treating their employees like robots, and then spent that money on robot research, we could build a robot that could not only win us the class war, but operate an efficient and well-appointed grocery store.
posted by mrjohnmuller at 7:25 AM on February 4, 2018 [14 favorites]
posted by mrjohnmuller at 7:25 AM on February 4, 2018 [14 favorites]
20 and 30 something losers living with their parents
If she projected that attitude, being fat probably wasn't the problem
posted by thelonius at 7:32 AM on February 4, 2018 [33 favorites]
If she projected that attitude, being fat probably wasn't the problem
posted by thelonius at 7:32 AM on February 4, 2018 [33 favorites]
There are other sellers than Amazon. We survived before we could get $1 plastic crap next-day drop-shipped to us.
Amazon and similar companies are in many ways necessary specifically because work on the whole is getting harder.
Remember the hour-and-a-half lunch? I do. Where if you needed to pick something up, you could run an errand mid week. Now it’s half an hour, unpaid, for many people. There’s no time to leave and do anything other than frantically throwing food in your mouth. Add that to extremely long commutes, and there’s n time to shop during the week. I know I don’t get home until 8 some nights - when all the shops are closed/and/ I still need to make dinner.
Amazon thrives because companies are trying to minmax productivity by treating workers like shit, and because people have gotten used to unions being nebulous things that take money out of their paycheck and other people run. And because the NLRB doesn’t protect anyone other than employers.
posted by corb at 7:42 AM on February 4, 2018 [58 favorites]
Amazon and similar companies are in many ways necessary specifically because work on the whole is getting harder.
Remember the hour-and-a-half lunch? I do. Where if you needed to pick something up, you could run an errand mid week. Now it’s half an hour, unpaid, for many people. There’s no time to leave and do anything other than frantically throwing food in your mouth. Add that to extremely long commutes, and there’s n time to shop during the week. I know I don’t get home until 8 some nights - when all the shops are closed/and/ I still need to make dinner.
Amazon thrives because companies are trying to minmax productivity by treating workers like shit, and because people have gotten used to unions being nebulous things that take money out of their paycheck and other people run. And because the NLRB doesn’t protect anyone other than employers.
posted by corb at 7:42 AM on February 4, 2018 [58 favorites]
we could build a robot that could not only win us the class war, but operate an efficient and well-appointed grocery store
Friend, you need to consider whether the robot wants to run a grocery store, no matter how well-appointed.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 7:48 AM on February 4, 2018 [8 favorites]
Friend, you need to consider whether the robot wants to run a grocery store, no matter how well-appointed.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 7:48 AM on February 4, 2018 [8 favorites]
Friend, you need to consider whether the robot wants to run a grocery store, no matter how well-appointed.
What would you have them run? A spaceship?
posted by durandal at 7:53 AM on February 4, 2018 [3 favorites]
What would you have them run? A spaceship?
posted by durandal at 7:53 AM on February 4, 2018 [3 favorites]
Would a sentient robot ever choose to work at Amazon, or Whole Foods? I demand an international tech-race to answer this question.
Also maybe some better human labour laws in the meantime.
posted by mrjohnmuller at 8:03 AM on February 4, 2018
Also maybe some better human labour laws in the meantime.
posted by mrjohnmuller at 8:03 AM on February 4, 2018
Friend, you need to consider whether the robot wants to run a grocery store, no matter how well-appointed.
i wish we also considered this about humans
maybe someday, after the robots come
(it will not happen after the robots come)
posted by halation at 8:16 AM on February 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
i wish we also considered this about humans
maybe someday, after the robots come
(it will not happen after the robots come)
posted by halation at 8:16 AM on February 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
Someone should develop a CEO robot that would work for household current. I bet one competent robot could replace the entire executive staff at most corporations. Imagine the cost savings!
posted by Kirth Gerson at 8:42 AM on February 4, 2018 [16 favorites]
posted by Kirth Gerson at 8:42 AM on February 4, 2018 [16 favorites]
Obviously we pay the sentient robot to operate a grocery store, just like we'd pay any other sentient creature for its work. Anything less is slavery.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 8:44 AM on February 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 8:44 AM on February 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
the only real solution for these "disruptive" trash systems is unionization since they are so powerful and pervasive
I always roll my eyes with MF's overall love affair with unions, as if they're magical congregations capable of dictating any workplace result. Battling the powerful and persuasive? Really? I mean, have you seen the state unions in the US? The ability of employees to walk away from shitty jobs isn't "blaming the worker". It is the bargaining chip employees have. It is the power of unionization. The power to walk away. There is no pressure on employers to change practices as long as there are people OK with working under those practices.
When the problem is the job, there will be no ability to change the job as long as the employee is unwilling to risk the job.
posted by 2N2222 at 8:56 AM on February 4, 2018 [4 favorites]
I always roll my eyes with MF's overall love affair with unions, as if they're magical congregations capable of dictating any workplace result. Battling the powerful and persuasive? Really? I mean, have you seen the state unions in the US? The ability of employees to walk away from shitty jobs isn't "blaming the worker". It is the bargaining chip employees have. It is the power of unionization. The power to walk away. There is no pressure on employers to change practices as long as there are people OK with working under those practices.
When the problem is the job, there will be no ability to change the job as long as the employee is unwilling to risk the job.
posted by 2N2222 at 8:56 AM on February 4, 2018 [4 favorites]
The ability of employees to walk away from shitty jobs isn't "blaming the worker". It is the bargaining chip employees have. It is the power of unionization. The power to walk away. There is no pressure on employers to change practices as long as there are people OK with working under those practices.
my job is to willfully misunderstand the difference between individual and collective actions, and i'm very happy with my job. after all, if i wasn't happy with my job, i could just leave it whenever, it's not like i need to sell my labor power to gain the means of subsistence.
posted by indubitable at 9:13 AM on February 4, 2018 [22 favorites]
my job is to willfully misunderstand the difference between individual and collective actions, and i'm very happy with my job. after all, if i wasn't happy with my job, i could just leave it whenever, it's not like i need to sell my labor power to gain the means of subsistence.
posted by indubitable at 9:13 AM on February 4, 2018 [22 favorites]
Just a report from the front lines: attempted to go to Whole Foods — canned tomatoes shelves empty, practically no onions, definitely no baskets. Left with nothing.
posted by dame at 9:21 AM on February 4, 2018 [6 favorites]
posted by dame at 9:21 AM on February 4, 2018 [6 favorites]
If she projected that attitude, being fat probably wasn't the problem
That's what I think of them and after what they did, I don't care if that seems offensive to you. Whole Foods and their culture of snotty better than thou from management down is filled with terrible people doing terrible things to each other and the communities they sit in.
posted by 80 Cats in a Dog Suit at 9:45 AM on February 4, 2018 [10 favorites]
That's what I think of them and after what they did, I don't care if that seems offensive to you. Whole Foods and their culture of snotty better than thou from management down is filled with terrible people doing terrible things to each other and the communities they sit in.
posted by 80 Cats in a Dog Suit at 9:45 AM on February 4, 2018 [10 favorites]
I mean, have you seen the state [of] unions in the US?
Luckily there are people on MF (sic) who are in countries where unions are much more of a healthy thing. Maybe MeFi could get better at listening to us.
posted by ambrosen at 9:53 AM on February 4, 2018 [20 favorites]
Luckily there are people on MF (sic) who are in countries where unions are much more of a healthy thing. Maybe MeFi could get better at listening to us.
posted by ambrosen at 9:53 AM on February 4, 2018 [20 favorites]
Whole Foods and their culture of snotty better than thou from management down is filled with terrible people doing terrible things to each other and the communities they sit in.
brings to mind what someone said years ago about the biz side of the film industry (Canadian version). That it was basically high school on steroids -- that if you were the special kind of asshole that flourished in high school, you'd do fine there
posted by philip-random at 9:54 AM on February 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
brings to mind what someone said years ago about the biz side of the film industry (Canadian version). That it was basically high school on steroids -- that if you were the special kind of asshole that flourished in high school, you'd do fine there
posted by philip-random at 9:54 AM on February 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
The Whole Foods near where I live, which is maybe less than a year old, has had the weird items-that-should-never-be-out-of-stock are out of stock problem since the day it opened. But what strikes me as even more disturbing is the complete (or feigned) lack of knowledge from the staff about where anything is. If asked, nobody knows where anything is, and staff act almost offended at the idea that they're supposed to. Or perhaps that's the fall-out from OTS. There's another grocery nearby from a not-so-good local chain, but ask any of the staff where something is, and they always know. This is like some kind of grocery store basic that WF decided they don't do.
I have mixed feelings about the place, but I stop there sometimes because it happens to be almost at the end of my run. They have good local bagels, except when they don't, which is about half the time. And the beer by the bottle thing is cool. People around here are absolutely crazy about the store, though. Customers triple park on a busy street out front because they don't even want to go into the free parking garage. Or maybe that's the problem with WF right there.
posted by lagomorphius at 10:03 AM on February 4, 2018 [2 favorites]
I have mixed feelings about the place, but I stop there sometimes because it happens to be almost at the end of my run. They have good local bagels, except when they don't, which is about half the time. And the beer by the bottle thing is cool. People around here are absolutely crazy about the store, though. Customers triple park on a busy street out front because they don't even want to go into the free parking garage. Or maybe that's the problem with WF right there.
posted by lagomorphius at 10:03 AM on February 4, 2018 [2 favorites]
lagomophius' experience is exactly like mine in the brand new WF near me. The only reason I might want to go there is the hot food bar, which usually looks iike a bunch of hungry teenagers have been there just before me (and left the giant mess teenagers would leave).
Plus, I got tricked once by non-dairy ice cream that was labeled as such only in tiny print. So WF is on my 'avoid, or double check EVERYTHING' list, like dealing with a hostile business associate.
posted by ctmf at 10:12 AM on February 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
Plus, I got tricked once by non-dairy ice cream that was labeled as such only in tiny print. So WF is on my 'avoid, or double check EVERYTHING' list, like dealing with a hostile business associate.
posted by ctmf at 10:12 AM on February 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
There’s a Whole Foods only 2 blocks away from me, about a 3 minute walk, so it’s useful for when my girlfriend and I need to pick up something quick for dinner, otherwise we do our main shopping at Fred Meyer. We’ve been in Whole Foods often enough that the cashiers know us. Unfortunately, one of the male cashiers didn’t pick up on that, and after a conversation with my girlfriend about coffee, in which she told him she works at a coffee shop and when he asked which one she told him which one, innocently thinking that she was having a regular conversation with someone who she regularly saw in a role in which she was a customer and he was an employee, as well as the fact that she’s regularly there hand-in-hand with me, her boyfriend, the man decided to go into her work and give her his email address, knowing that what he was doing was creepy (he appended this move by saying “I hope this isn’t creepy...”), and now she doesn’t feel comfortable going in there anymore because she feels like she’s been constantly sexualized by some guy she was just having a conversation with, and I also can’t go to management and complain about this because he knows where she works.
However, they’ve never had any supply problems when I’m there, so I’m not sure if they’re a weird outlier or what.
posted by gucci mane at 10:14 AM on February 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
However, they’ve never had any supply problems when I’m there, so I’m not sure if they’re a weird outlier or what.
posted by gucci mane at 10:14 AM on February 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
As long as we're blue-skying things here, maybe the solution isn't unions in the early-20th-century heavy-industrial mold -- which were disassembled, piecemeal, with the shrugs if not the cheers of the electorate, and I'm unclear why they'd do better today -- but something more along the lines of the German Betriebsrat or "works council" model.
Although it might be fun to imagine a militant union smashing robots in order to save workers' jobs, that seems very likely to be shortsighted and eventually hurtful to all concerned. Most industries exist in a global competitive environment, and pushing back against efficiency improvements just leads to more pressure to outsource. Unless you're also imagining a government that's on board with the idea of shutting down trade with any country that doesn't offer similar levels of labor protections (which, hey, I like this fantasy, but at this point we're at Singularity levels of improbable), the net result over time could be even more hollowing-out of the economy. Automation and continuous efficiency improvements are the only way you afford American workers. The whole fucking country is basically treading water, economically, based on continuous process optimization versus low-labor-cost locales (that and transportation costs). Life may suck now, but it would suck a lot worse if the average US worker weren't more productive, per labor hour, than the average worker in Asia, and that productivity is mostly enabled by technology and, probably just as importantly, a cultural acceptance of continuous optimization changes.
So taking that on premise, what to do? I think the solution is to look at even higher-cost-of-living economies, largely in Europe (also Japan) and look at how they do it. Giving labor seats on company boards, via works councils, seems like a good solution.
The way I'd fit this into the current economy is by some sort of tax advantage to corporate structures that prioritize co-determination, whether via the works council model or something else.
As long as we're dreaming, one way of achieving this would be in how the Trump tax cuts get rolled back (which, of course, they will be, because they're economically unsustainable). The Democrats, when they eventually get back in power, will be facing a lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth about job losses when they start raising corporate taxes again (which they'll have to do, because, again, unsustainable; it's just a hot grenade that they're going to get handed in a few years). They could score some easy points by making co-ops and other co-determined corporate structures, along perhaps with family and very small businesses, exempt from the increases, providing both a path to staying with the old rates for companies that claim they can't exist any other way, and also focus the narrative around tax increases on companies that are exploitative.
Of course, that would require a minimum of one political party that isn't a wholly-owned subsidiary of major business interests, which we currently don't have. But a boy can dream, can't he?
posted by Kadin2048 at 10:14 AM on February 4, 2018 [16 favorites]
Although it might be fun to imagine a militant union smashing robots in order to save workers' jobs, that seems very likely to be shortsighted and eventually hurtful to all concerned. Most industries exist in a global competitive environment, and pushing back against efficiency improvements just leads to more pressure to outsource. Unless you're also imagining a government that's on board with the idea of shutting down trade with any country that doesn't offer similar levels of labor protections (which, hey, I like this fantasy, but at this point we're at Singularity levels of improbable), the net result over time could be even more hollowing-out of the economy. Automation and continuous efficiency improvements are the only way you afford American workers. The whole fucking country is basically treading water, economically, based on continuous process optimization versus low-labor-cost locales (that and transportation costs). Life may suck now, but it would suck a lot worse if the average US worker weren't more productive, per labor hour, than the average worker in Asia, and that productivity is mostly enabled by technology and, probably just as importantly, a cultural acceptance of continuous optimization changes.
So taking that on premise, what to do? I think the solution is to look at even higher-cost-of-living economies, largely in Europe (also Japan) and look at how they do it. Giving labor seats on company boards, via works councils, seems like a good solution.
The way I'd fit this into the current economy is by some sort of tax advantage to corporate structures that prioritize co-determination, whether via the works council model or something else.
As long as we're dreaming, one way of achieving this would be in how the Trump tax cuts get rolled back (which, of course, they will be, because they're economically unsustainable). The Democrats, when they eventually get back in power, will be facing a lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth about job losses when they start raising corporate taxes again (which they'll have to do, because, again, unsustainable; it's just a hot grenade that they're going to get handed in a few years). They could score some easy points by making co-ops and other co-determined corporate structures, along perhaps with family and very small businesses, exempt from the increases, providing both a path to staying with the old rates for companies that claim they can't exist any other way, and also focus the narrative around tax increases on companies that are exploitative.
Of course, that would require a minimum of one political party that isn't a wholly-owned subsidiary of major business interests, which we currently don't have. But a boy can dream, can't he?
posted by Kadin2048 at 10:14 AM on February 4, 2018 [16 favorites]
As long as we're blue-skying things hereI mean, if we're blue skying, screw making humans do this meticulous make-work BS designed for robots to do and just replace all the humans with robots. Then hand out UBI. Unions can't solve the automation-efficiency-technology problem, and I say this as a strong proponent of unions who won't cross a picket line to get her broken phone replaced at the Verizon store.
posted by xyzzy at 10:20 AM on February 4, 2018 [11 favorites]
I always roll my eyes with MF's overall love affair with unions, as if they're magical congregations capable of dictating any workplace result. Battling the powerful and persuasive? Really? I mean, have you seen the state unions in the US?
I kind of get what you're saying - but the thing is - you really need to make a differentiation between unions as they are currently, and unions as they have been and could be.
When I was a kid, even in a Republican immigrant household, I learned that you didn't ever cross a picket line. It didn't matter what was on the other side, you did not cross a picket line come hell or high water. But today, even people who say they're for unions - people who will angrily talk about anti-union legislation - will cross a fucking picket line. They do not, at their core, fundamentally respect unions the way they say they do.
And in part, that's because unions as they exist now are far too entangled with management and politicians to be effective.
You will notice that the biggest union protection that 'union-friendly' politicians support is the right of unions to have the dues automatically taken out of your paycheck, even though that is the least effective way to make people feel part of a union. It's the most effective way to raise money that can then be donated to "union-friendly" politicians, but it's not the most effective way to make workers feel like they are all in a fight together. No, that's the good old-fashioned union card, and paying your dues to your union rep in person. Taking action sets you on the pathway to taking more action.
And what won the victories of labor? It wasn't careful and polite negotiations with management. It was strikes, and more importantly, sympathy strikes. It was when one shop is being picketed, nobody else delivers to that shop. Nobody enters that shop. No one picks up that shop's garbage.
Any union that has ceded the right to refuse to cross a picket line in their contract is a union in name only. Any union that has ceded the right to strike when and where the local workers decide it is a union in name only. Any union that has agreed that strikes can only take place with weeks of fucking notice is a union in name only.
posted by corb at 10:22 AM on February 4, 2018 [50 favorites]
I kind of get what you're saying - but the thing is - you really need to make a differentiation between unions as they are currently, and unions as they have been and could be.
When I was a kid, even in a Republican immigrant household, I learned that you didn't ever cross a picket line. It didn't matter what was on the other side, you did not cross a picket line come hell or high water. But today, even people who say they're for unions - people who will angrily talk about anti-union legislation - will cross a fucking picket line. They do not, at their core, fundamentally respect unions the way they say they do.
And in part, that's because unions as they exist now are far too entangled with management and politicians to be effective.
You will notice that the biggest union protection that 'union-friendly' politicians support is the right of unions to have the dues automatically taken out of your paycheck, even though that is the least effective way to make people feel part of a union. It's the most effective way to raise money that can then be donated to "union-friendly" politicians, but it's not the most effective way to make workers feel like they are all in a fight together. No, that's the good old-fashioned union card, and paying your dues to your union rep in person. Taking action sets you on the pathway to taking more action.
And what won the victories of labor? It wasn't careful and polite negotiations with management. It was strikes, and more importantly, sympathy strikes. It was when one shop is being picketed, nobody else delivers to that shop. Nobody enters that shop. No one picks up that shop's garbage.
Any union that has ceded the right to refuse to cross a picket line in their contract is a union in name only. Any union that has ceded the right to strike when and where the local workers decide it is a union in name only. Any union that has agreed that strikes can only take place with weeks of fucking notice is a union in name only.
posted by corb at 10:22 AM on February 4, 2018 [50 favorites]
You will notice that the biggest union protection that 'union-friendly' politicians support is the right of unions to have the dues automatically taken out of your paycheck,
And the "right" of non-union employees to get all the benefits the union negotiates for. So why would they join and pay dues? Easier to think the union does nothing and bad-mouth them, while enjoying the fruit of their effort.
posted by ctmf at 10:42 AM on February 4, 2018 [10 favorites]
And the "right" of non-union employees to get all the benefits the union negotiates for. So why would they join and pay dues? Easier to think the union does nothing and bad-mouth them, while enjoying the fruit of their effort.
posted by ctmf at 10:42 AM on February 4, 2018 [10 favorites]
If it were legal to only give the union members the benefit of what the union negotiated, while treating non-members like shit, the visible difference would change a lot of people's tune.
Oh, I can't force him to back shift for two days, then back to days with no break, he's union. You're not. Congratulations, see you at midnight.
posted by ctmf at 10:46 AM on February 4, 2018 [11 favorites]
Oh, I can't force him to back shift for two days, then back to days with no break, he's union. You're not. Congratulations, see you at midnight.
posted by ctmf at 10:46 AM on February 4, 2018 [11 favorites]
It's funny - I have a union job, organized by one of those bad old American unions, and I thank god for it every day. My healthcare is solid, my working conditions are pretty good, I earn and get to take a reasonable amount of sick days and vacation, and the union has recently negotiated some actual gains in terms of maternity leave and workplace rules. I'm not saying that a union will solve every problem you ever face, but ours is pretty recent and I know for a fact that wages are way better now and everyone who was on their tenth or fifteenth year as "temporary" staff had to be hired when we got the union in.
Unions aren't perfect and you'll be sadly disappointed if you expect them to be, but I've had union jobs and non-union jobs and union is much better even with a meh union.
posted by Frowner at 10:47 AM on February 4, 2018 [30 favorites]
Unions aren't perfect and you'll be sadly disappointed if you expect them to be, but I've had union jobs and non-union jobs and union is much better even with a meh union.
posted by Frowner at 10:47 AM on February 4, 2018 [30 favorites]
"Unless you're also imagining a government that's on board with the idea of shutting down trade with any country that doesn't offer similar levels of labor protections (which, hey, I like this fantasy, but at this point we're at Singularity levels of improbable)"
I seriously dream about this. I wish our countries all refused to do business with (or applied tariffs to) companies who dodge our environmental protections and human rights standards by moving their production/manufacturing to countries desperate enough to accept their abuse. It should not be up to individual consumers to try to figure out which companies are or aren't making their profits by abusing labourers and/or devastating the environment.
posted by Secret Sparrow at 10:47 AM on February 4, 2018 [14 favorites]
I seriously dream about this. I wish our countries all refused to do business with (or applied tariffs to) companies who dodge our environmental protections and human rights standards by moving their production/manufacturing to countries desperate enough to accept their abuse. It should not be up to individual consumers to try to figure out which companies are or aren't making their profits by abusing labourers and/or devastating the environment.
posted by Secret Sparrow at 10:47 AM on February 4, 2018 [14 favorites]
Corporate America is committed to prying every dime out of customers, and reducing every possible dime in labor expenses. My last job was over-managed that way. Instead of layoffs, staff would be nit-picked on vague rules until enough people had been fired. All so that corporate profits can be assured, so that wealth can be aggregated at the top, while those at the bottom of the economic pyramid are squeezed ever tighter for rent, transportation, health care, food. They/We 're serfs in the new feudalism. But the very wealthy may be visible in Gstaad, Aspen, or other playgrounds, but they live in gated and hidden communities, and their castles will be harder to storm.
Capitalism claims that competition keeps prices low and practices fair, but WF bought as many competitors as it could, and Bezos is fierce.
posted by theora55 at 10:53 AM on February 4, 2018 [3 favorites]
Capitalism claims that competition keeps prices low and practices fair, but WF bought as many competitors as it could, and Bezos is fierce.
posted by theora55 at 10:53 AM on February 4, 2018 [3 favorites]
Then hand out UBI.
I will make it my life's work to ensure that otherwise reasonable, decent and thoughtful people on the left stop thinking of UBI qua UBI as a panacea for anything.
Remember that the notion was first cooked up by the Nixon Administration, that it's perfectly consonant with the needs and interests of the market right, that it can all too easily be made a tool of neoliberal governmentality, and above all that that unless it is delivered in an environment where people have universal access to housing, healthcare, education and mobility, every penny of it will be sopped up by private enterprise in the form of user fees for things which are ours as a matter of right.
posted by adamgreenfield at 11:17 AM on February 4, 2018 [33 favorites]
I will make it my life's work to ensure that otherwise reasonable, decent and thoughtful people on the left stop thinking of UBI qua UBI as a panacea for anything.
Remember that the notion was first cooked up by the Nixon Administration, that it's perfectly consonant with the needs and interests of the market right, that it can all too easily be made a tool of neoliberal governmentality, and above all that that unless it is delivered in an environment where people have universal access to housing, healthcare, education and mobility, every penny of it will be sopped up by private enterprise in the form of user fees for things which are ours as a matter of right.
posted by adamgreenfield at 11:17 AM on February 4, 2018 [33 favorites]
I mostly stopped shopping at Whole Foods because their CEO was such a dick, but occasionally I need to pick up stuff that isn't available elsewhere. Now I know why last time I did that they were out of half of what I was looking for.
posted by tavella at 11:35 AM on February 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by tavella at 11:35 AM on February 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
But today, even people who say they're for unions - people who will angrily talk about anti-union legislation - will cross a fucking picket line. They do not, at their core, fundamentally respect unions the way they say they do.
I remember my grandparents telling me about how communities supported striking workers, whether it be verbally, by pats on the back, with food, with whatever was needed by workers and their families. The attitude was 'all in this together.' Seems like now non-union folks are so worried that someone might get a little ahead, and those strike breakers are often doing so because they have a chance to better themselves, or just plain feed their families. Even union folks feel the union falls more on the side of management than workers. It's a sucky system, but it's all we've got at this time. Far be it that we should revise it--easier to shoot it and put it out of it's misery.
Once again, Americans can see that other countries have nice things, but refuse to put a workable plan in place for themselves. If Americans think they can do so much better, why don't they critique other plans and improve on them? Na, whether it's health care, child care, education, insurance, whateves, we just ain't goin' to make it better for anyone. Because they might get something they 'don't deserve.' Motto for the good old USA--I got mine, screw everyone else.
posted by BlueHorse at 12:32 PM on February 4, 2018 [4 favorites]
I remember my grandparents telling me about how communities supported striking workers, whether it be verbally, by pats on the back, with food, with whatever was needed by workers and their families. The attitude was 'all in this together.' Seems like now non-union folks are so worried that someone might get a little ahead, and those strike breakers are often doing so because they have a chance to better themselves, or just plain feed their families. Even union folks feel the union falls more on the side of management than workers. It's a sucky system, but it's all we've got at this time. Far be it that we should revise it--easier to shoot it and put it out of it's misery.
Once again, Americans can see that other countries have nice things, but refuse to put a workable plan in place for themselves. If Americans think they can do so much better, why don't they critique other plans and improve on them? Na, whether it's health care, child care, education, insurance, whateves, we just ain't goin' to make it better for anyone. Because they might get something they 'don't deserve.' Motto for the good old USA--I got mine, screw everyone else.
posted by BlueHorse at 12:32 PM on February 4, 2018 [4 favorites]
What? Look for a more "long term" job? Like maybe Wal-Mart, the largest employer on the planet? Give up meager benefits and maybe hope the ACA isn't gutted? WHERE DO I SIGN UP
posted by Brocktoon at 1:51 PM on February 4, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by Brocktoon at 1:51 PM on February 4, 2018 [2 favorites]
re: Market Basket
Just moved to Somerville last year and LOVE everything about Market Basket. I only go to Whole Foods for the mochi at this point.
posted by youthenrage at 2:15 PM on February 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
Just moved to Somerville last year and LOVE everything about Market Basket. I only go to Whole Foods for the mochi at this point.
posted by youthenrage at 2:15 PM on February 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
Since Market Basket has come up (and I loved them too, miss them so much now that I've moved out of New England) here are a couple of the MeFi threads about their worker action not long ago.
A Grocery Store Strike Decades in the Making
Market Basket Close to Reaching a Deal
posted by Miko at 2:23 PM on February 4, 2018
A Grocery Store Strike Decades in the Making
Market Basket Close to Reaching a Deal
posted by Miko at 2:23 PM on February 4, 2018
I worked in retail for a bit. They instituted one of these nightmare systems. I still have night terrors remembering how my life revolved around these strange metrics and not customer service and a clean and easy to shop store. Reading about what happened with Target in Canada both sickened and soothed me. Retail better be careful.
posted by lextex at 3:58 PM on February 4, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by lextex at 3:58 PM on February 4, 2018 [2 favorites]
After weeks of frustration, I recently tweeted at WF's customer service a string of photos of plundered shelves at ~9 pm on a Sunday night.
After the resulting DMs getting forwarded around, a manager sent me a series of photos of the same shelves, stocked, at 5 pm on a weekday.
It might have been offensive if the image of her walking carefully around to find the relevant shelves and take the photos wasn't so danged funny.
The grocery options in NYC are really not great. I would trade a lot for a good old-fashioned Star Market to shift the bulk of my shopping to. In Boston, I ran a triangle strategy with Star-TJ's-WF (fresh produce and proteins).
posted by praemunire at 4:14 PM on February 4, 2018
After the resulting DMs getting forwarded around, a manager sent me a series of photos of the same shelves, stocked, at 5 pm on a weekday.
It might have been offensive if the image of her walking carefully around to find the relevant shelves and take the photos wasn't so danged funny.
The grocery options in NYC are really not great. I would trade a lot for a good old-fashioned Star Market to shift the bulk of my shopping to. In Boston, I ran a triangle strategy with Star-TJ's-WF (fresh produce and proteins).
posted by praemunire at 4:14 PM on February 4, 2018
When I worked at Tower Records they did a full inventory maybe once a year, but everybody had to show up at 5:00 am to count records. It was kind of fun. But as the manager would tell everybody when he announced the date, "And if you don't like it I hear Sam Goody is hiring."
posted by lagomorphius at 8:44 PM on February 4, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by lagomorphius at 8:44 PM on February 4, 2018 [2 favorites]
Workers-as-widgets mentality. Disposable, expendable, replaceable. All WF has done is adapt the prevailing corporate mentality which views workers as insects. I've worked a lot of retail and seen it first hand.
I never liked WF as to compete with Wal-Mart and the like they became more and more like them. Amazon ownership completes that transformation.
posted by Armed Only With Hubris at 8:45 PM on February 4, 2018
I never liked WF as to compete with Wal-Mart and the like they became more and more like them. Amazon ownership completes that transformation.
posted by Armed Only With Hubris at 8:45 PM on February 4, 2018
In the early 2000s I used to roll my eyes at a friend who went to Whole Foods, and I kept saying I wouldn't spend my money at union-busting shops. She'd get furious and insist that all the employees smiled so they must enjoy their jobs. I never pressed the issue further, and soon moved out of the country. This really doesn't feel like an appropriate moment for an I-told-you-so, and I hope they can organise quickly.
posted by rum-soaked space hobo at 3:01 AM on February 5, 2018
posted by rum-soaked space hobo at 3:01 AM on February 5, 2018
I used to deliver wheatgrass at different WFs all around Atlanta and I got to see a bunch of different teams with all kinds of different social dynamics. there were some stores where it was holier-than-thou hipster dudes and gals who were fond of doing that annoying-at-parties, evil-for-the-workplace thing where if they didn't know you, you'd be frozen out - no acknowledgement, no 'hi I recognize you', etc. whether that's a function of their social anxiety or not, it definitely made me, an actual perpetual outsider who didn't work for them but stocked things alongside them semi-regularly, feel excluded and weird and glad that I wasn't actually working there
on the other hand, a couple of the stores I delivered to had really friendly supervisors who made a point of hiring from immigrant populations, all of them super pro-social folks from all kinds of backgrounds. met a guy from Thailand who told me all about his family's history in the maybe 2 hours total we spent talking to one another throughout the time I had that delivery job and another Ethiopian guy who'd joke around with me about all of the weird, unregulated alternative health supplements that the super rich would buy
which isn't to defend Whole Foods, their hyper-libertarian founder and CEO of many years, this super shitty lean inventory business practice that goes hand-in-hand with his shitty, hyper-libertarian ethos, or the role WF plays in gentrification and white supremacy - but it is to say that a decent minority of the stores, at least in Atlanta, had good people working there, all of whom are facing this machine-grind stress of this inventory system change. as if you really needed another reason to punch John Mackey right in the teeth
posted by runt at 4:29 AM on February 5, 2018 [4 favorites]
on the other hand, a couple of the stores I delivered to had really friendly supervisors who made a point of hiring from immigrant populations, all of them super pro-social folks from all kinds of backgrounds. met a guy from Thailand who told me all about his family's history in the maybe 2 hours total we spent talking to one another throughout the time I had that delivery job and another Ethiopian guy who'd joke around with me about all of the weird, unregulated alternative health supplements that the super rich would buy
which isn't to defend Whole Foods, their hyper-libertarian founder and CEO of many years, this super shitty lean inventory business practice that goes hand-in-hand with his shitty, hyper-libertarian ethos, or the role WF plays in gentrification and white supremacy - but it is to say that a decent minority of the stores, at least in Atlanta, had good people working there, all of whom are facing this machine-grind stress of this inventory system change. as if you really needed another reason to punch John Mackey right in the teeth
posted by runt at 4:29 AM on February 5, 2018 [4 favorites]
What I find fascinating about this article is that it is actually being reported on. I was under the assumption this happens all the time and nobody gives a shit.
Its a painfully common occurrence in the US that any company that expands, weather its a national chain or just a couple of shops in your town, that they will implementing a new managing style that demands everyone does more work in the same amount of time for the same amount of pay (often with less employees because usually the first move is to cut a large amount of staff) . Often the rules are usually vague and enforced arbitrarily, created by people who have no idea what its like on the ground.
The general consensus by people creating these systems is that people should be grateful for having a job at all. That the reward for working is getting to keep your job.
Hopefully this article gains some traction and the conversation can be had about how companies treat their employees.
posted by teamKRL at 7:13 AM on February 5, 2018 [2 favorites]
Its a painfully common occurrence in the US that any company that expands, weather its a national chain or just a couple of shops in your town, that they will implementing a new managing style that demands everyone does more work in the same amount of time for the same amount of pay (often with less employees because usually the first move is to cut a large amount of staff) . Often the rules are usually vague and enforced arbitrarily, created by people who have no idea what its like on the ground.
The general consensus by people creating these systems is that people should be grateful for having a job at all. That the reward for working is getting to keep your job.
Hopefully this article gains some traction and the conversation can be had about how companies treat their employees.
posted by teamKRL at 7:13 AM on February 5, 2018 [2 favorites]
Both articles mentioned how much less space was being allocated for inventory storage thanks to the OTS system. Whereas Whole Foods might have imagined reallocating this square footage to additional SKUs, I wonder if Amazon found that new back-of-house capacity attractive as part of a larger strategy to use WF locations as staging grounds for their speedy delivery services, particularly in urban areas.
And driving away long time employees allows them to hire replacements at lower wages who never knew the old system and so balk less. Related, but I can envision multiple scenarios (from frees staff up for stocking and customer service to allows them to avoid replacing workers): when will WF roll out the the automated check out system Amazon is testing in Seattle?
posted by carmicha at 7:32 AM on February 5, 2018
And driving away long time employees allows them to hire replacements at lower wages who never knew the old system and so balk less. Related, but I can envision multiple scenarios (from frees staff up for stocking and customer service to allows them to avoid replacing workers): when will WF roll out the the automated check out system Amazon is testing in Seattle?
posted by carmicha at 7:32 AM on February 5, 2018
I wonder if Amazon found that new back-of-house capacity attractive as part of a larger strategy to use WF locations as staging grounds for their speedy delivery services, particularly in urban areas.
Maybe it's been lost since the start of the thread, but this decision was entirely internal to Whole Foods. Amazon had nothing to do with it, and at least some employees are hoping that Amazon will fix it.
posted by Going To Maine at 9:09 AM on February 5, 2018
Maybe it's been lost since the start of the thread, but this decision was entirely internal to Whole Foods. Amazon had nothing to do with it, and at least some employees are hoping that Amazon will fix it.
posted by Going To Maine at 9:09 AM on February 5, 2018
I believe that carmicha is aware of that, they are just pointing out that the extra storage space may have made it more attractive for Amazon to buy, whatever plans WF may have originally had.
posted by tavella at 9:30 AM on February 5, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by tavella at 9:30 AM on February 5, 2018 [2 favorites]
Both articles mentioned how much less space was being allocated for inventory storage thanks to the OTS system.
As extreme weather events become increasingly common in the US, I'm not sure "regularly running out of staples even when everything is running normally" is the greatest business model to embrace as a baseline.
posted by a fiendish thingy at 10:22 AM on February 5, 2018 [1 favorite]
As extreme weather events become increasingly common in the US, I'm not sure "regularly running out of staples even when everything is running normally" is the greatest business model to embrace as a baseline.
posted by a fiendish thingy at 10:22 AM on February 5, 2018 [1 favorite]
Current ground level employee of WF.
OTS is not that bad. Stories of empty shelves are probably being exaggerated, and have more to do with Buyer error and warehouse "Out of Stocks" than it does have to do with limited backstock due to OTS.
OTS has been coming for almost 2 years now. It was not a response to Amazon, but rather something that was implemented to entice someone like Amazon into buying. OTS is just a standard procedure across all stores. Before OTS each store was an ad hoc hodge podge of receiving and stock. It was a mess. There will be growing pains, sure, but nothing that signals the death knell of Whole Foods.
posted by GreatValhalla at 11:21 AM on February 5, 2018 [11 favorites]
OTS is not that bad. Stories of empty shelves are probably being exaggerated, and have more to do with Buyer error and warehouse "Out of Stocks" than it does have to do with limited backstock due to OTS.
OTS has been coming for almost 2 years now. It was not a response to Amazon, but rather something that was implemented to entice someone like Amazon into buying. OTS is just a standard procedure across all stores. Before OTS each store was an ad hoc hodge podge of receiving and stock. It was a mess. There will be growing pains, sure, but nothing that signals the death knell of Whole Foods.
posted by GreatValhalla at 11:21 AM on February 5, 2018 [11 favorites]
talking shit about Whole Foods is a leftist pastime.
posted by Annika Cicada at 12:30 PM on February 5, 2018
posted by Annika Cicada at 12:30 PM on February 5, 2018
it's almost like there are legitimate reasons to criticize Whole Foods and a lot of people agree on the issue
posted by runt at 2:28 PM on February 5, 2018 [6 favorites]
posted by runt at 2:28 PM on February 5, 2018 [6 favorites]
Oh yes for sure and certainly, I am among those ranks of those who have severe criticisms!
posted by Annika Cicada at 2:56 PM on February 5, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by Annika Cicada at 2:56 PM on February 5, 2018 [1 favorite]
talking shit about Whole Foods is a leftist pastime.
posted by Annika Cicada 2 ½ hours ago [+] [!]
Leave us our self-hatred.
posted by Going To Maine at 3:10 PM on February 5, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by Annika Cicada 2 ½ hours ago [+] [!]
Leave us our self-hatred.
posted by Going To Maine at 3:10 PM on February 5, 2018 [1 favorite]
I worked at a Whole Foods for a while a couple of years ago and I can confirm that making employees cry is their usual MO and not a new development, like when they gave employees with lower BMIs a larger discount.
posted by ITheCosmos at 4:50 PM on February 5, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by ITheCosmos at 4:50 PM on February 5, 2018 [2 favorites]
Another example of why unions are necessary.
From those pictures of Whole Foods produce sections it would appear that onions are necessary too.
posted by turbid dahlia at 6:16 PM on February 6, 2018 [2 favorites]
From those pictures of Whole Foods produce sections it would appear that onions are necessary too.
posted by turbid dahlia at 6:16 PM on February 6, 2018 [2 favorites]
like when they gave employees with lower BMIs a larger discount.
Okay, fuck it, those fuckers aren’t getting another dime of my money. Hell to the no.
posted by corb at 8:43 PM on February 6, 2018
Okay, fuck it, those fuckers aren’t getting another dime of my money. Hell to the no.
posted by corb at 8:43 PM on February 6, 2018
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posted by elsietheeel at 10:22 PM on February 3, 2018 [126 favorites]