A No-Good Horrible Very Bad Parenting Day. With bees. And rage muffins.
February 28, 2018 6:37 PM Subscribe
"Some small, selfish part of you cannot believe that you have to put up with this shit." Parent as a Verb: Mommy Rage, a single-link graphic howl from Emily Flake and The New Yorker.
As a father of two wonderful girls, I can tell you that nothing but parenting can really teach you what a shitty person you are.
posted by selfnoise at 7:14 PM on February 28, 2018 [74 favorites]
posted by selfnoise at 7:14 PM on February 28, 2018 [74 favorites]
I don't feel that kind of outward-directed rage, but I do regularly convince myself that I have utterly failed as a parent.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:26 PM on February 28, 2018 [9 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:26 PM on February 28, 2018 [9 favorites]
This American Life did a segment when the raging voice mail that Alec Baldwin left for his daughter came out; they had parents who were hugely relieved that they weren't the only ones. I would not be surprised to find out that I inspired this same sort of feeling in my own mom, given my occasional youthful propensity to do things such as climb into the bathtub with younger siblings when I was fully clothed.
Also, I love Emily Flake's work; Lulu Eightball is deeply missed.
posted by Halloween Jack at 7:30 PM on February 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
Also, I love Emily Flake's work; Lulu Eightball is deeply missed.
posted by Halloween Jack at 7:30 PM on February 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
Welp, I guess Granny was quite comfortable with wearing her rage suit on the outside. It won't matter how old I am - I'll always hear her yelling "Jesus Christ! You goddamned kids!" when she comes to mind.
posted by Calzephyr at 7:35 PM on February 28, 2018 [5 favorites]
posted by Calzephyr at 7:35 PM on February 28, 2018 [5 favorites]
I mean, I love my kids, but a not inconsiderable amount of kid behavior would be considered emotional abuse if an adult pulled it.
It has, as selfnoise says, shown me what a petty, shitty, impatient person I am capable of being of being. But it has also revealed to me how many adults are basically just toddlers that never grew the f*ck up.
posted by ryanshepard at 7:35 PM on February 28, 2018 [17 favorites]
It has, as selfnoise says, shown me what a petty, shitty, impatient person I am capable of being of being. But it has also revealed to me how many adults are basically just toddlers that never grew the f*ck up.
posted by ryanshepard at 7:35 PM on February 28, 2018 [17 favorites]
I think my favorite image is the secret rage-smoke foiled by bees. So many times I have taken my pissed-offedness for a walk to the barn, only to be both even more angered and diverted from the original anger by some fresh hell. I just want to be by myself being mad about the thing I'm mad about, and suddenly I have to deal with an irritable skunk in a trap?
posted by MonkeyToes at 7:42 PM on February 28, 2018 [41 favorites]
posted by MonkeyToes at 7:42 PM on February 28, 2018 [41 favorites]
Huck500: Yeah, we need to leave in about 10 minutes, so it looks like you're about ready, just giving you a heads-up, ok?
Daughter: Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaat.....?
Huck500: ...10 minutes, ok?
... 10 minutes pass ...
Huck500: *takes a deep breath*... so ... ready to go??
Daughter: Wait, WHAAAAAAAAAT? Why didn't you tell me??!! *runs out of bedroom and knocks over various furniture*
Huck500: wtf.
Later that night...
Daughter: I love you guys!!
Huck500: AWWWWWWWW! We love you too!!!!
I came in when she was 14, and now she's 18, so limited experience, but that's a teenager in a nutshell for me.
posted by Huck500 at 7:48 PM on February 28, 2018 [5 favorites]
Daughter: Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaat.....?
Huck500: ...10 minutes, ok?
... 10 minutes pass ...
Huck500: *takes a deep breath*... so ... ready to go??
Daughter: Wait, WHAAAAAAAAAT? Why didn't you tell me??!! *runs out of bedroom and knocks over various furniture*
Huck500: wtf.
Later that night...
Daughter: I love you guys!!
Huck500: AWWWWWWWW! We love you too!!!!
I came in when she was 14, and now she's 18, so limited experience, but that's a teenager in a nutshell for me.
posted by Huck500 at 7:48 PM on February 28, 2018 [5 favorites]
Huck500: Yeah, we need to leave in about 10 minutes, so it looks like you're about ready, just giving you a heads-up, ok?
Daughter: Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaat.....?
Earbuds, man. Fucken earbuds.
posted by flabdablet at 8:05 PM on February 28, 2018 [3 favorites]
Daughter: Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaat.....?
Earbuds, man. Fucken earbuds.
posted by flabdablet at 8:05 PM on February 28, 2018 [3 favorites]
But my mother used to carry this rage with her that was (is) deep and it would come out and be terrifying. Terrifying. (Also abusive, unlike this piece. But it was this kind of simmering.) It was so common that I obsessed on this for years before conceiving my kids, and the first few years I...waited for it to arrive. And it hasn’t, not like that. My mother used to lose her shit when one of us vomited, and the first time my kid vomited on me I was like...that’s...it? And I’ve had so many moments like that. Way more than anger.
I don’t think we should at all shame enraged moms but I’m uncomfortable normalizing it.
To be fair, I think that this deep, simmering rage is less about rage per se and more about resentment. Certainly that's what I always figured my own mother's rage to be about--she'd had a promising career doing something she was interested in, and suddenly she got pregnant and married and had to subordinate that career for the sake of children that I'm about 90% sure she was pressured heavily into carrying to term, with relatively little parenting support for decades at a time.
(Me, for the record; I am that eldest child, and I have to wonder if that became a factor in my taking the brunt of that resentment and rage. I do know that my mother tried, just once, to shame me by telling me how much she gave up by choosing to have me--and she was immediately shocked out of that when I told her, quite matter of factly, that I'd considered this years prior and that I thought she should have had the abortion. Not that I'm not pleased to be here, you understand; but I wonder whether she would be such a miserable asshole if she'd chosen to make a hard decision in her mid twenties, get an abortion, and proceeded with the career she actually wanted.)
I think it's possible to carry that kind of rage without resenting your children if you know what the actual cause of your stress is: the system that leaves you unsupported and forced into doing something you don't want to be doing. But I think mothers who don't freely choose parenting, in their own time and when they want to parent, are much more likely to direct the resentment at the children rather than at the systematic reasons for where they are their husband's lack of help, for example. It's much harder to remain angry at other adults you rely on, like your own parents or your husband, when they are people you now rely on even more because you have children to raise. It is easier to redirect the resentment at the children themselves--after all, by and large you can tell yourself that they'll never notice, that you've hidden it well (you haven't), and even if they do notice, they certainly won't penalize you for it or call you out on it.
It's more tempting for some people to be mad at a target that will agree with you and appease you than it is to be mad at a target that will push back very hard and isn't as immediately obviously a source of stress. That's all. And that resentment is very different from the frustrated "I CAN'T FUCKING COPE WITH THIS ANYMORE GO TO YOUR ROOM WHILE I COOL DOWN" explosion that I think is the emotion that needs to be de-shamed--so that we can talk about what effective coping mechanisms for those feelings are, and how you prevent that kind of overwhelmed fury from seeping into resentment.
posted by sciatrix at 8:10 PM on February 28, 2018 [35 favorites]
I don’t think we should at all shame enraged moms but I’m uncomfortable normalizing it.
To be fair, I think that this deep, simmering rage is less about rage per se and more about resentment. Certainly that's what I always figured my own mother's rage to be about--she'd had a promising career doing something she was interested in, and suddenly she got pregnant and married and had to subordinate that career for the sake of children that I'm about 90% sure she was pressured heavily into carrying to term, with relatively little parenting support for decades at a time.
(Me, for the record; I am that eldest child, and I have to wonder if that became a factor in my taking the brunt of that resentment and rage. I do know that my mother tried, just once, to shame me by telling me how much she gave up by choosing to have me--and she was immediately shocked out of that when I told her, quite matter of factly, that I'd considered this years prior and that I thought she should have had the abortion. Not that I'm not pleased to be here, you understand; but I wonder whether she would be such a miserable asshole if she'd chosen to make a hard decision in her mid twenties, get an abortion, and proceeded with the career she actually wanted.)
I think it's possible to carry that kind of rage without resenting your children if you know what the actual cause of your stress is: the system that leaves you unsupported and forced into doing something you don't want to be doing. But I think mothers who don't freely choose parenting, in their own time and when they want to parent, are much more likely to direct the resentment at the children rather than at the systematic reasons for where they are their husband's lack of help, for example. It's much harder to remain angry at other adults you rely on, like your own parents or your husband, when they are people you now rely on even more because you have children to raise. It is easier to redirect the resentment at the children themselves--after all, by and large you can tell yourself that they'll never notice, that you've hidden it well (you haven't), and even if they do notice, they certainly won't penalize you for it or call you out on it.
It's more tempting for some people to be mad at a target that will agree with you and appease you than it is to be mad at a target that will push back very hard and isn't as immediately obviously a source of stress. That's all. And that resentment is very different from the frustrated "I CAN'T FUCKING COPE WITH THIS ANYMORE GO TO YOUR ROOM WHILE I COOL DOWN" explosion that I think is the emotion that needs to be de-shamed--so that we can talk about what effective coping mechanisms for those feelings are, and how you prevent that kind of overwhelmed fury from seeping into resentment.
posted by sciatrix at 8:10 PM on February 28, 2018 [35 favorites]
Anytime I read anything like this it TOTALLY reaffirms to me the fact that getting a vasectomy was the wisest thing I've ever done.
posted by ZaneJ. at 8:19 PM on February 28, 2018 [10 favorites]
posted by ZaneJ. at 8:19 PM on February 28, 2018 [10 favorites]
And I mean, in that comic--the thing that sparks her rage is half the fact that her fucking husband undermined her parenting instead of backing her up as a coparent. Which let him play "good parent," get the validation of the kid being sweet to him (because he's giving her what she wants, which is commiseration for whatever has her overwhelmed right now, rather than actually accomplishing whatever goal Mom is trying to do with the damn shoes in the short term), and incidentally makes Mommy seem like even more of a monster from the kid's perspective.
I wonder if she'd be as angry if her husband had let the toddler cool down (and given her space to cool down when she got frustrated) and then convinced the toddler to put her shoes on. Or just picked up the task of getting the toddler dressed when she got overwhelmed and frustrated.
posted by sciatrix at 8:20 PM on February 28, 2018 [43 favorites]
I wonder if she'd be as angry if her husband had let the toddler cool down (and given her space to cool down when she got frustrated) and then convinced the toddler to put her shoes on. Or just picked up the task of getting the toddler dressed when she got overwhelmed and frustrated.
posted by sciatrix at 8:20 PM on February 28, 2018 [43 favorites]
Every passing year as my body gets a little more and more worn out, I remember that at my age Mom was dealing with that AND bratty teenage me. I've been apologizing a lot.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 8:24 PM on February 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by The Underpants Monster at 8:24 PM on February 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
Comic hyperbole. All parents get pissed off at their kids. Rage is the wrong word IRL, though, I think. The intense love that is part of parenthood usually keeps the negative feelings from boiling over into rage, as far as I know. The mileage of some parents may vary, relative to parental issues and childhood extreme behaviors.
posted by kozad at 8:28 PM on February 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by kozad at 8:28 PM on February 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
Comics and threads like these just make me wince. I was an undiagnosed (and then ignored-as-convenient diagnosed) ADHD kid and most of the behaviors parents rant about with the most frequency are ones that I, too, as a kid, hated about myself! Trust me that they were worse for me than they were for my parents. It sucks to always forget to do things, to not be able to remember how old your brother is, to constantly miss when people are talking to you, to have someone at school take you aside to tell you how bad you smell because you never remember to shower, to constantly embarrass yourself by forgetting names and faces and the fact that you have an uncle, to lose everything you ever own, to never be ready on time, to have emotional outburst over small dumb things, to get so overwhelmed you throw yourself on the floor and scream at 18 years old.
It took me a looooong time to unpack the self-hatred their rage taught me. I'm not saying I don't think my parents had a right to be frustrated. But I wish they'd taken more time to control their anger and in turn helped me control my anger at myself. And I hope that parents realize that even though, yes, your frustration is valid and understandable--storming off and/or hiding it doesn't make it any better for your kids. They pick up on it. They know. Some can brush it off, and some don't care, but lots of kids internalize it, especially if they have problems that run deeper than "I don't wanna." So I guess my unsolicited advice to parents is to take the time to acknowledge and talk about your anger in a way that doesn't make your kids hate themselves. Don't just hide it. Show them how to deal with it, and show them that your frustration doesn't mean they're bad or failed human beings.
posted by brook horse at 9:00 PM on February 28, 2018 [35 favorites]
It took me a looooong time to unpack the self-hatred their rage taught me. I'm not saying I don't think my parents had a right to be frustrated. But I wish they'd taken more time to control their anger and in turn helped me control my anger at myself. And I hope that parents realize that even though, yes, your frustration is valid and understandable--storming off and/or hiding it doesn't make it any better for your kids. They pick up on it. They know. Some can brush it off, and some don't care, but lots of kids internalize it, especially if they have problems that run deeper than "I don't wanna." So I guess my unsolicited advice to parents is to take the time to acknowledge and talk about your anger in a way that doesn't make your kids hate themselves. Don't just hide it. Show them how to deal with it, and show them that your frustration doesn't mean they're bad or failed human beings.
posted by brook horse at 9:00 PM on February 28, 2018 [35 favorites]
Good for her for bottling the rage down until she could get out. Bad on her husband for not backing her up. I've been the target of that rage (and in my case, it was rage) from frustration at the world and a marriage that you were never sure of and now wish you weren't in. I'm not saying that I wasn't a shitty kid a lot of the time (although once I finally received medication for my ADHD, things got a lot better), but my behavior never warranted the extreme reaction I received. But when the only target of the built up rage and resentment is the child, well, that's where it goes.
And seriously, what the fuck husband? You go and talk to the other parent and come to an agreement about what to do about the kid and punishment before you get to play nice parent who saves the day.
posted by Hactar at 10:41 PM on February 28, 2018 [5 favorites]
And seriously, what the fuck husband? You go and talk to the other parent and come to an agreement about what to do about the kid and punishment before you get to play nice parent who saves the day.
posted by Hactar at 10:41 PM on February 28, 2018 [5 favorites]
Truthfully, this is the main reason I chose not to have kids. I am pretty damn sure I just wouldn't be able to cope, and, knowing that, decided not to inflict the results of my anticipated failure unto the world.
And, to all those people that kept telling me "Oh, you'll change once you have a kid..." I will, with a distinctly surly glare point out the parenthood fairy has never come near me with her magic wand and then will go to point out so many families I have known that were also neglected.
So, yeah, I am pretty firmly committed to the identity of "I'm an awesome uncle, but I would be a suxxor parent". Because a kid is a living breathing human being, and I don't just get to go home or shut it down if it is annoying me.
posted by Samizdata at 10:47 PM on February 28, 2018 [12 favorites]
And, to all those people that kept telling me "Oh, you'll change once you have a kid..." I will, with a distinctly surly glare point out the parenthood fairy has never come near me with her magic wand and then will go to point out so many families I have known that were also neglected.
So, yeah, I am pretty firmly committed to the identity of "I'm an awesome uncle, but I would be a suxxor parent". Because a kid is a living breathing human being, and I don't just get to go home or shut it down if it is annoying me.
posted by Samizdata at 10:47 PM on February 28, 2018 [12 favorites]
I found this comic frankly disturbing.
My mother was angry at a lot of things. It took the form of nuclear rages at holidays but there was plenty of random stuff where she made it clear that having children, especially me, was something that messed up her life. My sister and I resolved early to not have kids as a result. Now there are two entire family lines going extinct. Anger is poison.
posted by kinnakeet at 1:12 AM on March 1, 2018 [13 favorites]
My mother was angry at a lot of things. It took the form of nuclear rages at holidays but there was plenty of random stuff where she made it clear that having children, especially me, was something that messed up her life. My sister and I resolved early to not have kids as a result. Now there are two entire family lines going extinct. Anger is poison.
posted by kinnakeet at 1:12 AM on March 1, 2018 [13 favorites]
As a (sometimes) rageful parent of a (sometimes) difficult/high-needs child, I found this...excessive? Like, a ‘whole-body rage suit’ sounds scary and not like something that’s ‘typical’ of parenting? (I hope?).
Yes I agree that parenting makes you show your ugliest side; I fly off my handle and yell fairly often, over stupid 6-year-old stuff, but the feeling of ‘wanting total immolation’ she describes sounds...somewhat pathological?
I mean, you can be an overwhelmed mom (for which, my deepest sympathy!) and have a genuine anger problem at the same time, which this reads like. Or maybe that’s just her artistic exaggeration of things. I dunno.
posted by The Toad at 2:00 AM on March 1, 2018 [9 favorites]
Yes I agree that parenting makes you show your ugliest side; I fly off my handle and yell fairly often, over stupid 6-year-old stuff, but the feeling of ‘wanting total immolation’ she describes sounds...somewhat pathological?
I mean, you can be an overwhelmed mom (for which, my deepest sympathy!) and have a genuine anger problem at the same time, which this reads like. Or maybe that’s just her artistic exaggeration of things. I dunno.
posted by The Toad at 2:00 AM on March 1, 2018 [9 favorites]
I dunno, that doesn't really sound like any bees I know.
posted by os tuberoes at 2:11 AM on March 1, 2018 [6 favorites]
posted by os tuberoes at 2:11 AM on March 1, 2018 [6 favorites]
I'm on the side of this is really not funny and WTF? If it's supposed to be satirical, the target's off. There's nothing remotely funny about a parent who so completely can't control their shit and needing to escape the house because their rage is THAT strong. I see it from the kid's perspective and to have a parent so furious that they need to leave? That shit is scary.
I raised three kids. By myself. And worked full time. And part time. And went to graduate school. Twice. Never once did I have a rage episode like this.
"Just for one split second you'd burn everything to the ground..."
WTF?? How is that humorous? Seriously? Get your shit together, lady.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 2:49 AM on March 1, 2018 [18 favorites]
I raised three kids. By myself. And worked full time. And part time. And went to graduate school. Twice. Never once did I have a rage episode like this.
"Just for one split second you'd burn everything to the ground..."
WTF?? How is that humorous? Seriously? Get your shit together, lady.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 2:49 AM on March 1, 2018 [18 favorites]
I'm on the side of this is really not funny and WTF? If it's supposed to be satirical, the target's off. There's nothing remotely funny about a parent who so completely can't control their shit and needing to escape the house because their rage is THAT strong. I see it from the kid's perspective and to have a parent so furious that they need to leave? That shit is scary.
Wow, harsh crowd. I guess I'll out myself as the unstable, scary mom and say that this happens to me all the time, little moments of impatience or frustration that one action (or inaction) can turn into a raging inferno like water on a grease fire. It IS rage, and it feels like a lightning strike, and I often have to go sit in the bathroom by myself for five minutes and recite the litany against fear (rage) in order to calm down.
And I think it's unfair to say that the burst rage I feel thing is completely wrong and horrible when my kid takes off the shoes he asked me to help him put on and throws one squarely in my eye, whereas if a stranger on the street did that to me I would be perfectly justified in feeling that rage against them. Does being a mother mean that some emotions are now forbidden me?
posted by lollymccatburglar at 3:08 AM on March 1, 2018 [68 favorites]
Wow, harsh crowd. I guess I'll out myself as the unstable, scary mom and say that this happens to me all the time, little moments of impatience or frustration that one action (or inaction) can turn into a raging inferno like water on a grease fire. It IS rage, and it feels like a lightning strike, and I often have to go sit in the bathroom by myself for five minutes and recite the litany against fear (rage) in order to calm down.
And I think it's unfair to say that the burst rage I feel thing is completely wrong and horrible when my kid takes off the shoes he asked me to help him put on and throws one squarely in my eye, whereas if a stranger on the street did that to me I would be perfectly justified in feeling that rage against them. Does being a mother mean that some emotions are now forbidden me?
posted by lollymccatburglar at 3:08 AM on March 1, 2018 [68 favorites]
I don't think this comic is endorsing anger, it's acknowledging it, as a part of life that exists (and is weird and uncomfortable and problematic). It's observational comedy. I get angry at my kids, my partner gets angry at our kids, I've seen lots of other people get angry at their kids. It's a thing.
I enjoyed the catharsis, and the discomfort. I feel like it does better than other comedy that deals with how shitty one can feel as a parent (I hate to bring him up, but Louis CK comes to mind), which can try to shrug off the discomfort with a bit of a "whelp, I'm just an asshole, har har".
A+ would empathize again.
posted by threecheesetrees at 4:12 AM on March 1, 2018 [14 favorites]
I enjoyed the catharsis, and the discomfort. I feel like it does better than other comedy that deals with how shitty one can feel as a parent (I hate to bring him up, but Louis CK comes to mind), which can try to shrug off the discomfort with a bit of a "whelp, I'm just an asshole, har har".
A+ would empathize again.
posted by threecheesetrees at 4:12 AM on March 1, 2018 [14 favorites]
I think there’s a wide spectrum of parental anger/frustration/rage: on one end, there’s the unacceptable, abusive rage that gets taken out on the kids and/or spouse; on the other, there’s the “I love my family but dammit I sure don’t like them very much right now” type of anger that’s much more common and gets squished down and hidden - in part because many parents know the slope is more slippery than they’d like to think, in part because it’s extremely hard to express anger in a healthy way that makes sense to small kids. Control over your reactions is good and necessary. But it’s easy to come to the conclusion all parental anger is wrong (I recently read a smug-parent blog that was all like “I can’t IMAGINE ever yelling at your precious PRECIOUS child! Don’t you LOVE them???”) and so parents squish it and squish it and have to vent it somewhere, and there are so few places to safely vent.
Parenting is years of trying to wrangle a small human who doesn’t yet grasp reason and isn’t so good at managing emotion; when you encounter that in adults you can usually fire them or dump them or mute their stupid Facebook feed, but you just have to live through it every day with kids. And it’s easy to be like “well maybe you should have thought about that before having children” but it’s not a matter of who’s best able to handle that level of continued stress because almost nobody is and you can’t really control the hand you’re dealt. Abusive anger never has to happen, but anger in itself is inevitable. There are a ton of parents who are Mister Rogers levels of lovely during the day, while at night they go out in the back yard and dig holes to scream into.
posted by Metroid Baby at 4:31 AM on March 1, 2018 [30 favorites]
Parenting is years of trying to wrangle a small human who doesn’t yet grasp reason and isn’t so good at managing emotion; when you encounter that in adults you can usually fire them or dump them or mute their stupid Facebook feed, but you just have to live through it every day with kids. And it’s easy to be like “well maybe you should have thought about that before having children” but it’s not a matter of who’s best able to handle that level of continued stress because almost nobody is and you can’t really control the hand you’re dealt. Abusive anger never has to happen, but anger in itself is inevitable. There are a ton of parents who are Mister Rogers levels of lovely during the day, while at night they go out in the back yard and dig holes to scream into.
posted by Metroid Baby at 4:31 AM on March 1, 2018 [30 favorites]
I absolutely feel that rage and feel it often.
My biggest trigger BY FAR is not being heard, at all, by anyone. I have reasoned requests (time to go, please don't smash your brother on the head with a rocket, how many times have I asked you not to smear food on the chair, etc) that go absolutely ignored and it kills me inside. I don't feel this way at all when either of my children are having a full on tantrum, I have all the patience in the world for them being overwhelmed or stressed or scared or upset, it's the moments when they just... choose to pretend they can't even hear me that ignite that interior rage.
And yes, the husband playing good cop is absolutely part of the fucking problem, the same thing happens at our house. BUT DADDY ALWAYS SAYS YES, MOMMY is a refrain that makes me want to smash things and it's totally my husband's fault.
posted by lydhre at 5:37 AM on March 1, 2018 [37 favorites]
My biggest trigger BY FAR is not being heard, at all, by anyone. I have reasoned requests (time to go, please don't smash your brother on the head with a rocket, how many times have I asked you not to smear food on the chair, etc) that go absolutely ignored and it kills me inside. I don't feel this way at all when either of my children are having a full on tantrum, I have all the patience in the world for them being overwhelmed or stressed or scared or upset, it's the moments when they just... choose to pretend they can't even hear me that ignite that interior rage.
And yes, the husband playing good cop is absolutely part of the fucking problem, the same thing happens at our house. BUT DADDY ALWAYS SAYS YES, MOMMY is a refrain that makes me want to smash things and it's totally my husband's fault.
posted by lydhre at 5:37 AM on March 1, 2018 [37 favorites]
My nephew is an extraordinarily good-natured kid, but he has these (increasingly infrequent as he gets older) moments where he just melts the fuck down and there’s nothing anyone can do about it but wait for it to blow over (he’s a redhead, so my sister and her husband call it “ginger rage”). One time a couple of summers ago when he was 4 and my entire family had been at the beach all day and were getting ready to leave, he had one that was exacerbated by the fact that he’d tired himself out running around in the sun all day. My brother-in-law, who is very mild-mannered, was trying to calm him down and utterly failing and I could see him getting more and more fed up. Eventually he just gave up and I guess decided to have some fun with it because he proceeded to just troll the shit out of my nephew:
Nephew: WAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Brother-in-law: What’s wrong? What do you want?
N: WAHHHHHHHHNOTHINGWAHHHHHHHHHH
BIL (in the most sarcastic voice imaginable): WELL, if you don’t want *ANYTHING*, you should be the *HAPPIEST* boy in the *WORLD*. So why are you crying?
N: *goes nuclear*
I thought it was hilarious, but I’m part of the “I didn’t have kids in part because I was worrried I wouldn’t be able to hack it” crowd here. My wife is convinced that if we’d had kids she would have been the bad cop, and she’s probably right (although my parents did a good job of holding a united front, so I would have had their example to draw upon).
posted by The Card Cheat at 5:51 AM on March 1, 2018 [1 favorite]
Nephew: WAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Brother-in-law: What’s wrong? What do you want?
N: WAHHHHHHHHNOTHINGWAHHHHHHHHHH
BIL (in the most sarcastic voice imaginable): WELL, if you don’t want *ANYTHING*, you should be the *HAPPIEST* boy in the *WORLD*. So why are you crying?
N: *goes nuclear*
I thought it was hilarious, but I’m part of the “I didn’t have kids in part because I was worrried I wouldn’t be able to hack it” crowd here. My wife is convinced that if we’d had kids she would have been the bad cop, and she’s probably right (although my parents did a good job of holding a united front, so I would have had their example to draw upon).
posted by The Card Cheat at 5:51 AM on March 1, 2018 [1 favorite]
A real smoker would never be deterred by bees.
posted by thelonius at 6:26 AM on March 1, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by thelonius at 6:26 AM on March 1, 2018 [4 favorites]
As always, Nicolas Cage has this covered.
posted by Naberius at 6:45 AM on March 1, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by Naberius at 6:45 AM on March 1, 2018 [1 favorite]
I’m part of the “I didn’t have kids in part because I was worrried I wouldn’t be able to hack it” crowd here.
Me too! Stints of babysitting in my teenage years just reinforced my childfree stance. Reading pieces like this makes me feel vindicated.
I think it's a good thing that there are all these articles on the annoying, enraging or just plain grinding parts of having kids, because the more kids who come into life being truly wanted and prepared for, the better off society as a whole will be.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 6:54 AM on March 1, 2018 [5 favorites]
Me too! Stints of babysitting in my teenage years just reinforced my childfree stance. Reading pieces like this makes me feel vindicated.
I think it's a good thing that there are all these articles on the annoying, enraging or just plain grinding parts of having kids, because the more kids who come into life being truly wanted and prepared for, the better off society as a whole will be.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 6:54 AM on March 1, 2018 [5 favorites]
I like the part about this thread where we decide that Flake is Doing It Wrong.
Bullet point #245, on my list of reasons to never reproduce: the easy judgement of other parents.
posted by sandettie light vessel automatic at 6:57 AM on March 1, 2018 [22 favorites]
Bullet point #245, on my list of reasons to never reproduce: the easy judgement of other parents.
posted by sandettie light vessel automatic at 6:57 AM on March 1, 2018 [22 favorites]
That stuffed down rage? Your kid knows it's there.
posted by theora55 at 7:04 AM on March 1, 2018 [8 favorites]
posted by theora55 at 7:04 AM on March 1, 2018 [8 favorites]
I have frustration/overwhelmedness that boils up sometimes. It is 100% my own doing, and so usually I'll say to my 2yo something like, "I need to go have a time-in*, because I'm getting overwhelmed and I need to manage myself." I'm not always good at saying that beforehand, but I make sure to say it afterhand, so that Bean doesn't think that my mood/reaction/whatever is their fault.
posted by XtinaS at 7:09 AM on March 1, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by XtinaS at 7:09 AM on March 1, 2018 [3 favorites]
Since using a better birth control method and getting an abortion when your kid is older isn't possible or necessarily wanted I think having a nonabusive rage moment here and there isn't a mark of shame for a parent at all. It is far worse to an array of other things such not putting the hard work in to teach your kids how to be independent. And there is nothing more frustrating than that long, hard road. Thus the useless good cop parent.
posted by waving at 7:19 AM on March 1, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by waving at 7:19 AM on March 1, 2018 [1 favorite]
That stuffed down rage? Your kid knows it's there.
I mean, sure? But a) parents are people too, and b) kids also learn that some of their behavior causes anger, which is a reasonable life lesson. I just don't think it's feasible to live an interior life of pure zen, alas.
posted by lydhre at 7:21 AM on March 1, 2018 [26 favorites]
I mean, sure? But a) parents are people too, and b) kids also learn that some of their behavior causes anger, which is a reasonable life lesson. I just don't think it's feasible to live an interior life of pure zen, alas.
posted by lydhre at 7:21 AM on March 1, 2018 [26 favorites]
The kids who never, ever see their parents get upset or mad are the kids who are ill equipped to deal when their peers go nuclear. Or their partners. Or their bosses.
I'm not saying to go out and rage at your children. But if and when you do get upset with/at them, use it as a teaching moment. "I got mad at you and I yelled. Sometimes people get mad and they yell. I shouldn't have done that. There are better ways to express to people that you are upset with them and I am sorry I didn't choose a better option. It is also okay for you to say 'You are yelling at me and that is not okay. I am going to walk away and we can talk later when you have calmed down.' I will do my best to do better the next time I am upset."
Because not only are you teaching them that people get mad sometimes and it's okay for people to have feelings, you're teaching that them that is okay for them to have feelings, too, and the better way to deal with those feelings is to pull yourself together and have a calm conversation about it.
posted by cooker girl at 7:30 AM on March 1, 2018 [42 favorites]
I'm not saying to go out and rage at your children. But if and when you do get upset with/at them, use it as a teaching moment. "I got mad at you and I yelled. Sometimes people get mad and they yell. I shouldn't have done that. There are better ways to express to people that you are upset with them and I am sorry I didn't choose a better option. It is also okay for you to say 'You are yelling at me and that is not okay. I am going to walk away and we can talk later when you have calmed down.' I will do my best to do better the next time I am upset."
Because not only are you teaching them that people get mad sometimes and it's okay for people to have feelings, you're teaching that them that is okay for them to have feelings, too, and the better way to deal with those feelings is to pull yourself together and have a calm conversation about it.
posted by cooker girl at 7:30 AM on March 1, 2018 [42 favorites]
Also, having literally written a huge comment out on the fact that if you resent your kid, they're aware...
C'mon. It's certainly okay to be mad at your kid. If you never express anger or frustration at all, how the hell are you supposed to model successfully dealing with those emotions? The life of a toddler is one overwhelming frustration shading into rage after another. I guarantee you that your kid is not going to magically be the exception, and we don't actually grow out of experiencing frustration: we just learn to cope with it.
If your kid never sees an adult grapple with frustration or anger, how the hell are they supposed to handle it when they stop being a kid? Children worry about this. Is bottling up all your emotions and grimly repressing them the outcome you want for your kid?
As with everything, there's a lot of messiness here.
posted by sciatrix at 7:47 AM on March 1, 2018 [13 favorites]
C'mon. It's certainly okay to be mad at your kid. If you never express anger or frustration at all, how the hell are you supposed to model successfully dealing with those emotions? The life of a toddler is one overwhelming frustration shading into rage after another. I guarantee you that your kid is not going to magically be the exception, and we don't actually grow out of experiencing frustration: we just learn to cope with it.
If your kid never sees an adult grapple with frustration or anger, how the hell are they supposed to handle it when they stop being a kid? Children worry about this. Is bottling up all your emotions and grimly repressing them the outcome you want for your kid?
As with everything, there's a lot of messiness here.
posted by sciatrix at 7:47 AM on March 1, 2018 [13 favorites]
Or, hell, what cooker girl said better.
posted by sciatrix at 7:47 AM on March 1, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by sciatrix at 7:47 AM on March 1, 2018 [1 favorite]
Sanctimoniousfilter. Thanks, but no.
Seems like some of you forgot what it's like to be a parent. Luckily I've got a pretty easy little one right now, but I have friends who are struggling with a very difficult 3 year old. It's easy to judge and point fingers from the oustide, but how about a little compassion?
posted by iamck at 8:31 AM on March 1, 2018 [8 favorites]
Seems like some of you forgot what it's like to be a parent. Luckily I've got a pretty easy little one right now, but I have friends who are struggling with a very difficult 3 year old. It's easy to judge and point fingers from the oustide, but how about a little compassion?
posted by iamck at 8:31 AM on March 1, 2018 [8 favorites]
Parenting is hard as hell, and the kicker is, you don't know what kid you're going to get until that kid is there, poking holes in your delicately constructed sense of self. I'm known among my friends and family as a very calm, never loses his temper kind of guy. I've had several colleagues ask my advice on how to stay level headed at work. I somehow got a kid who found the magical keys to my roller skates. He's fantastic, brilliant, funny, sweet, caring and also a giant pain in the ass when he's in the right mood, which is pretty often. I've had more emotional peaks since he was born than I've had in the entire rest of my life. I'm finding better ways to be on top of my game and parent my kid and some days are better than others, but I definitely understand parents who struggle with their anger much better than I ever did before I was a parent.
The other day, I took my son to a movie. There was a kid who lost something in the theater and then screamed about it non-stop from the end of the movie all the way into the parking lot (a good 5-10 minutes). The mom finally lost it and told him to "Shut. Up." in a pretty harsh way. Me and my son talked about it afterward, about how scary and mean that was. And my son said, "You'd never do that to me." I agreed and told him I loved him, but on the inside I was thinking, "Son, I've been on that precipice more times than you can imagine."
posted by ga$money at 8:40 AM on March 1, 2018 [14 favorites]
The other day, I took my son to a movie. There was a kid who lost something in the theater and then screamed about it non-stop from the end of the movie all the way into the parking lot (a good 5-10 minutes). The mom finally lost it and told him to "Shut. Up." in a pretty harsh way. Me and my son talked about it afterward, about how scary and mean that was. And my son said, "You'd never do that to me." I agreed and told him I loved him, but on the inside I was thinking, "Son, I've been on that precipice more times than you can imagine."
posted by ga$money at 8:40 AM on March 1, 2018 [14 favorites]
Sanctimoniousfilter. Thanks, but no.
Seems like some of you forgot what it's like to be a parent. Luckily I've got a pretty easy little one right now, but I have friends who are struggling with a very difficult 3 year old. It's easy to judge and point fingers from the oustide, but how about a little compassion?
I think it's important to recognize that many of the people in this thread who are upset by the cartoon are upset because they were affected as children by their parent's anger.
I end up being in both camps: I have two kids that regularly drive me insane and my Dad was an angry prick when I was a kid.
I try to be honest with my kids. I try to tell them how I'm feeling and explain, but not justify. I never denigrate them or tell them they are bad for what they've done. I give them lots of hugs and tell them how much I love them.
All the same, when you have a 3 year old who becomes obsessed with running into a busy street every time you leave daycare, your communication skills are really tested.
posted by selfnoise at 9:08 AM on March 1, 2018 [7 favorites]
Seems like some of you forgot what it's like to be a parent. Luckily I've got a pretty easy little one right now, but I have friends who are struggling with a very difficult 3 year old. It's easy to judge and point fingers from the oustide, but how about a little compassion?
I think it's important to recognize that many of the people in this thread who are upset by the cartoon are upset because they were affected as children by their parent's anger.
I end up being in both camps: I have two kids that regularly drive me insane and my Dad was an angry prick when I was a kid.
I try to be honest with my kids. I try to tell them how I'm feeling and explain, but not justify. I never denigrate them or tell them they are bad for what they've done. I give them lots of hugs and tell them how much I love them.
All the same, when you have a 3 year old who becomes obsessed with running into a busy street every time you leave daycare, your communication skills are really tested.
posted by selfnoise at 9:08 AM on March 1, 2018 [7 favorites]
Yeah, I sit on both sides of the fence here. My mother's rage was 100% toxic and is to this day. And of course as a mom I do get angry, and fail often. I am not a serene person, and I'm a person parenting.
However I don't think it's demanding zen, or being sanctimonious, to talk about being uncomfortable with a "mom rage" that is described as immolation and wearing a rage suit under the skin.
I mean...it's a matter of degree and to some extent kind, and of course this is a comic sharing a period in time. I'm not flaying anyone. But why do we accept "Mom Rage" when "Dad Rage" might bring up other thoughts? Why do we accept a parenting model and society where moms are doing so much emotional labour on their own and have so few supports and so little access to childcare/breaks/etc. that it's potentially standard for them to be shopping in a rage at the supermarket?
And I am not sharing my story to establish superiority but because I was terrified of this rage, it literally woke me up at 4 am in the morning as a 6 year old to come clean up a mess and embedded itself in me and still lurks in my adult life choices...and I did make a conscious decision that rage, not anger and frustration and sadness, but rage was something to absolutely guard against.
And I don't think, honestly, I really have any answers for how that worked out but while I have experienced rage, once or twice in front of my children, at my partner, and maybe he's an analogue...I actually haven't at my kids. And the one trick I learned from my therapist about my rage before I had kids which seems to apply is to really look at the person in front of me.
posted by warriorqueen at 9:22 AM on March 1, 2018 [11 favorites]
However I don't think it's demanding zen, or being sanctimonious, to talk about being uncomfortable with a "mom rage" that is described as immolation and wearing a rage suit under the skin.
I mean...it's a matter of degree and to some extent kind, and of course this is a comic sharing a period in time. I'm not flaying anyone. But why do we accept "Mom Rage" when "Dad Rage" might bring up other thoughts? Why do we accept a parenting model and society where moms are doing so much emotional labour on their own and have so few supports and so little access to childcare/breaks/etc. that it's potentially standard for them to be shopping in a rage at the supermarket?
And I am not sharing my story to establish superiority but because I was terrified of this rage, it literally woke me up at 4 am in the morning as a 6 year old to come clean up a mess and embedded itself in me and still lurks in my adult life choices...and I did make a conscious decision that rage, not anger and frustration and sadness, but rage was something to absolutely guard against.
And I don't think, honestly, I really have any answers for how that worked out but while I have experienced rage, once or twice in front of my children, at my partner, and maybe he's an analogue...I actually haven't at my kids. And the one trick I learned from my therapist about my rage before I had kids which seems to apply is to really look at the person in front of me.
posted by warriorqueen at 9:22 AM on March 1, 2018 [11 favorites]
The thing about parent rage, for me, is that it goes from zero to sixty far faster than any other kind of rage, because every maddening thing isn't just it's own thing, it's oh no not this again GRARRRR!
* Trying to get my kid to drink her milk is a petty annoyance, as an isolated incident. But it's never isolated -- we're playing out Nightly Battle #1,172 in the years-long Drink Your Milk Now War. We both know how to inflict heavy casualties, by this point.
* My kid deciding she hates Activity H, after we just paid to sign her up for it because she was so excited about it, isn't the end of the world, except that she did the same thing with Activities A, B, C, D....
* Being in the hospital for a couple nights with my kid because she caught a virus that plays havoc with her asthma-lungs should be difficult, but it wouldn't make me feel such instant panic and impotent rage (not at the kid, but tied up with the kid, emotionally), except that it brings me right back to every other time we've been there.
I don't deal with all those things in an isolated way, emotionally, because I'm not a person who hasn't lived through all the history that they dredge up.
posted by gurple at 9:25 AM on March 1, 2018 [5 favorites]
* Trying to get my kid to drink her milk is a petty annoyance, as an isolated incident. But it's never isolated -- we're playing out Nightly Battle #1,172 in the years-long Drink Your Milk Now War. We both know how to inflict heavy casualties, by this point.
* My kid deciding she hates Activity H, after we just paid to sign her up for it because she was so excited about it, isn't the end of the world, except that she did the same thing with Activities A, B, C, D....
* Being in the hospital for a couple nights with my kid because she caught a virus that plays havoc with her asthma-lungs should be difficult, but it wouldn't make me feel such instant panic and impotent rage (not at the kid, but tied up with the kid, emotionally), except that it brings me right back to every other time we've been there.
I don't deal with all those things in an isolated way, emotionally, because I'm not a person who hasn't lived through all the history that they dredge up.
posted by gurple at 9:25 AM on March 1, 2018 [5 favorites]
The blueberry muffin rage eating scene is me 100%. It was good to know I'm not alone there.
Last night my husband returned from the gym in a rage because apparently he hates going to the gym early enough to make it to the grocery store before it closes at 9:00pm. Our son is sick, so I had asked my husband to get some food that might entice our sick kid to eat. My mom rage ignited when my husband vented about the time pressure of having to fit the errand in, and inside I was screaming, "THIS IS MY ENTIRE LIFE, FITTING IN ERRANDS AND MAKING CONTINGENCY PLANS!" My mom rage is 50% child ignited and 50% spouse ignited, but 90% of the spouse ignition cases have a parenting-related root cause. Usually it results in me angrily throwing toys during cleanup time (angrily compounded by the fact that I am cleaning again, by myself).
posted by Maarika at 9:53 AM on March 1, 2018 [4 favorites]
Last night my husband returned from the gym in a rage because apparently he hates going to the gym early enough to make it to the grocery store before it closes at 9:00pm. Our son is sick, so I had asked my husband to get some food that might entice our sick kid to eat. My mom rage ignited when my husband vented about the time pressure of having to fit the errand in, and inside I was screaming, "THIS IS MY ENTIRE LIFE, FITTING IN ERRANDS AND MAKING CONTINGENCY PLANS!" My mom rage is 50% child ignited and 50% spouse ignited, but 90% of the spouse ignition cases have a parenting-related root cause. Usually it results in me angrily throwing toys during cleanup time (angrily compounded by the fact that I am cleaning again, by myself).
posted by Maarika at 9:53 AM on March 1, 2018 [4 favorites]
This is/was me, particularly six months ago, when I realized the rage suit was becoming too comfortable. It was partially how I figured out that I was depressed and needed to talk to the doctor. Now, on low dose zoloft, I still periodically get those burst rages, but it's much easier to glide over the petty annoyances. It also allows me to use humor/unexpected actions to diffuse situations. Just the other day I shortcutted a battle over bath by plopping Little Purr in the tub, clothes and all. Once she was in she had fun. Of course, now the jokes on me because she wants to do bath with clothes every time *eyeroll*. If I do lose my temper, I also make pains to apologize, while biting down hard against saying "if you JUST LISTENED TO ME we wouldn't be here!"
Anyway, differing parenting styles and not being heard are definitely my triggers. Big Purr will weakly try to stop Little Purr from doing something and then I swoop in a *areoiugshggsldkjfslli*. This is something we both need to work on, I know.
One I have taken to heart from "How To Talk To Kids, so they will listen..." toddler edition, is that they say to forgive yourself if you mess up, and think of it as a practice. The kid is pretty much guaranteed to push those buttons again, so you'll have another chance to get it right!
tl;dr, I think you can identify with the comic and not be a abusive monster. Maybe get a depression screening if the rage suit lasts more than 36 hours....
posted by Hermeowne Grangepurr at 9:57 AM on March 1, 2018 [7 favorites]
Anyway, differing parenting styles and not being heard are definitely my triggers. Big Purr will weakly try to stop Little Purr from doing something and then I swoop in a *areoiugshggsldkjfslli*. This is something we both need to work on, I know.
One I have taken to heart from "How To Talk To Kids, so they will listen..." toddler edition, is that they say to forgive yourself if you mess up, and think of it as a practice. The kid is pretty much guaranteed to push those buttons again, so you'll have another chance to get it right!
tl;dr, I think you can identify with the comic and not be a abusive monster. Maybe get a depression screening if the rage suit lasts more than 36 hours....
posted by Hermeowne Grangepurr at 9:57 AM on March 1, 2018 [7 favorites]
That stuffed down rage? Your kid knows it's there.
Look, you're supposed to try and be a decent parent, not someone with a superhuman, Zen-master like level of equanimity and self-control. If that was what was required not to totally fu*k a kid up, society would be even more of a squalid pile of hopeless, damaged people than it already is.
Feed them, read to them, clean them off from time to time, give them a hug when they're sad or scared, and try not to yell at them too much when your anger gets the best of you. Most of them? They will turn out OK.
Comments like this are kind of maddening - I mean, most of us are nowhere close to perfect, and no amount of shaming or parenting fear-mongering is going to get us any closer to that.
posted by ryanshepard at 9:57 AM on March 1, 2018 [17 favorites]
Look, you're supposed to try and be a decent parent, not someone with a superhuman, Zen-master like level of equanimity and self-control. If that was what was required not to totally fu*k a kid up, society would be even more of a squalid pile of hopeless, damaged people than it already is.
Feed them, read to them, clean them off from time to time, give them a hug when they're sad or scared, and try not to yell at them too much when your anger gets the best of you. Most of them? They will turn out OK.
Comments like this are kind of maddening - I mean, most of us are nowhere close to perfect, and no amount of shaming or parenting fear-mongering is going to get us any closer to that.
posted by ryanshepard at 9:57 AM on March 1, 2018 [17 favorites]
There's such a great discussion going on here.
I've noticed, or maybe I'm drawn to them because it's a grar point for me, that a lot of "mommy media" out there talks about the frustration and rage threatening to boil out. Some of it is good - it brings light to the problem and encourages moms to go get treated for anxiety that might be coming out as rage, etc.
But. Some of it - several pieces that I've read - has the tone of "yeah I yell at my kids, everyone does sometimes, I know I shouldn't but they are such infuriating little shits and I love them and they know that and I'm doing the best I can and I'm still a good mom"
And- well - part of me just hunches up when I read those because all of those things can be absolutely true and still, and still, your child may not be able to reconcile the good loving mom with the yelling, losing her shit mom. None of those pieces truly seem to grapple with "I've considered the fact that the best I can may not be enough and my behavior may have serious consequences in a decade or two because I don't get to decide for my kids that the way I yelled at them was okay."
There's also often an overtone of "kids are such infurating shits that everyone loses it, and if they'd just (do the thing) I wouldn't lose my shit and yell" which is just.... you are the adult. They didn't ask to be a child. They didn't ask to be your child. It's okay for people to lose it and yell. Most people do at some point. It's not okay - ever - to blame the behavior you chose on someone else.
posted by nakedmolerats at 10:02 AM on March 1, 2018 [9 favorites]
I've noticed, or maybe I'm drawn to them because it's a grar point for me, that a lot of "mommy media" out there talks about the frustration and rage threatening to boil out. Some of it is good - it brings light to the problem and encourages moms to go get treated for anxiety that might be coming out as rage, etc.
But. Some of it - several pieces that I've read - has the tone of "yeah I yell at my kids, everyone does sometimes, I know I shouldn't but they are such infuriating little shits and I love them and they know that and I'm doing the best I can and I'm still a good mom"
And- well - part of me just hunches up when I read those because all of those things can be absolutely true and still, and still, your child may not be able to reconcile the good loving mom with the yelling, losing her shit mom. None of those pieces truly seem to grapple with "I've considered the fact that the best I can may not be enough and my behavior may have serious consequences in a decade or two because I don't get to decide for my kids that the way I yelled at them was okay."
There's also often an overtone of "kids are such infurating shits that everyone loses it, and if they'd just (do the thing) I wouldn't lose my shit and yell" which is just.... you are the adult. They didn't ask to be a child. They didn't ask to be your child. It's okay for people to lose it and yell. Most people do at some point. It's not okay - ever - to blame the behavior you chose on someone else.
posted by nakedmolerats at 10:02 AM on March 1, 2018 [9 favorites]
And- well - part of me just hunches up when I read those because all of those things can be absolutely true and still, and still, your child may not be able to reconcile the good loving mom with the yelling, losing her shit mom. None of those pieces truly seem to grapple with "I've considered the fact that the best I can may not be enough and my behavior may have serious consequences in a decade or two because I don't get to decide for my kids that the way I yelled at them was okay."
Just as a counterpoint (and then I'll stop threadsitting), my grandfather used to hit his kids with a belt when they got out of line, and made them work with him from the time they were young teenagers on a variety of very unpleasant manual labor jobs, which they hated.
The first time I saw my dad cry was at his funeral, and he has a lot of fond memories of him. The pull kids feel towards that parents can be broken with enough cruelty or abuse, but it can also go a long way to smoothing over and forgiving parenting mistakes, especially as the years go by and the kids have a better understanding of what their parents were up against.
posted by ryanshepard at 10:07 AM on March 1, 2018 [1 favorite]
Just as a counterpoint (and then I'll stop threadsitting), my grandfather used to hit his kids with a belt when they got out of line, and made them work with him from the time they were young teenagers on a variety of very unpleasant manual labor jobs, which they hated.
The first time I saw my dad cry was at his funeral, and he has a lot of fond memories of him. The pull kids feel towards that parents can be broken with enough cruelty or abuse, but it can also go a long way to smoothing over and forgiving parenting mistakes, especially as the years go by and the kids have a better understanding of what their parents were up against.
posted by ryanshepard at 10:07 AM on March 1, 2018 [1 favorite]
I mean, sure? But a) parents are people too, and b) kids also learn that some of their behavior causes anger, which is a reasonable life lesson. I just don't think it's feasible to live an interior life of pure zen, alas.
I don't think anyone is saying you need to never be angry or be in perfect zen mode all the time. Just asking parents to acknowledge that this kind of anger hurts kids too, and that it's not healthy to stuff it down and ignore it. That it should be acknowledged and addressed. And yes, sometimes you don't have the emotional energy to talk with your kiddo about anger, sometimes you do just have to stuff it down, and that's understandable! But there seems to be this idea that as long as you don't show it then your kid will be fine and you don't have to deal with it. But kids pick up on that and it can hurt them as much as the yelling. I think all anyone is asking is that you at least talk to your kids about your anger.
posted by brook horse at 10:12 AM on March 1, 2018 [5 favorites]
I don't think anyone is saying you need to never be angry or be in perfect zen mode all the time. Just asking parents to acknowledge that this kind of anger hurts kids too, and that it's not healthy to stuff it down and ignore it. That it should be acknowledged and addressed. And yes, sometimes you don't have the emotional energy to talk with your kiddo about anger, sometimes you do just have to stuff it down, and that's understandable! But there seems to be this idea that as long as you don't show it then your kid will be fine and you don't have to deal with it. But kids pick up on that and it can hurt them as much as the yelling. I think all anyone is asking is that you at least talk to your kids about your anger.
posted by brook horse at 10:12 AM on March 1, 2018 [5 favorites]
Yeah, I know this rage. It looks so absurd from the outside, without context. Well, it is absurd, which is what makes the comic funny. The last time I had it was about 6 months ago. I had excitedly given my daughter (grade 2) $20 to take to the school book fair to buy a couple of books. We had talked about how maybe she could buy 3 skinny chapter books, or 2 bigger books...anyhow I love books and I was pumped to find out what she had chosen at the end of the day. And...she had bought an overpriced novelty pen, eraser, a couple of bookmarks and something like her 7th blank journal in a couple of months, after I had told her she had to use the ones she had - no. more. journals.
RAGE. On the inside, I was out of control; I had completely lost my shit. I think I held it together for a while, until she lied to me about having homework. That's when I got the red laser eyes and those eyes started spitting tears. Ugh. I'm glad that day is over.
I can't remember how I made amends that day, but I definitely do things like apologize for yelling and poke fun at myself to make things lighthearted again.
Anyhow, yeah I know the rage and I'm not afraid to admit it.
posted by kitcat at 10:13 AM on March 1, 2018 [3 favorites]
RAGE. On the inside, I was out of control; I had completely lost my shit. I think I held it together for a while, until she lied to me about having homework. That's when I got the red laser eyes and those eyes started spitting tears. Ugh. I'm glad that day is over.
I can't remember how I made amends that day, but I definitely do things like apologize for yelling and poke fun at myself to make things lighthearted again.
Anyhow, yeah I know the rage and I'm not afraid to admit it.
posted by kitcat at 10:13 AM on March 1, 2018 [3 favorites]
And if I hadn't quit smoking a month prior, I would have stabbed most of those fucking bees with the cherry and stood there scowling as the rest of them stung me.
posted by kitcat at 10:16 AM on March 1, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by kitcat at 10:16 AM on March 1, 2018 [2 favorites]
Lydhre writes: My biggest trigger BY FAR is not being heard, at all, by anyone.
I hear you sister, loud and clear. I think truly the killer combo is not being heard, at all, by anyone while also being the one person with final responsibility for making sure that stuff gets done. It's of course incredibly frustrating when kids make your job a whole lot harder than it needs to be, but that is tempered by the fact that they're kids and a lot of the time just do not grok the consequences of whatever stupid and irritating shit they're doing.
The undermining husband, though--that's bullshit of a totally different order. That is flat-out betrayal, and I mean that in the literal, John Gottman-certified sense.
I was visited by that white hot mommy rage far, far more than my mellow-friendly-vivacious-hippie self ever, ever would have imagined. After my divorce it has disappeared completely. In hindsight I see how much that was exacerbated by being abandoned in the midst of challenge--any challenge, certainly parenting challenges among them--by my conflict-avoidant husband. Bad enough to have some hard situation to deal with. Worse yet to know that not only (a) you handle it or it won't get handled, but also (b) the person who's supposed to be your teammate only makes it worse. Single parenting is a relief in comparison.
posted by Sublimity at 10:18 AM on March 1, 2018 [14 favorites]
I hear you sister, loud and clear. I think truly the killer combo is not being heard, at all, by anyone while also being the one person with final responsibility for making sure that stuff gets done. It's of course incredibly frustrating when kids make your job a whole lot harder than it needs to be, but that is tempered by the fact that they're kids and a lot of the time just do not grok the consequences of whatever stupid and irritating shit they're doing.
The undermining husband, though--that's bullshit of a totally different order. That is flat-out betrayal, and I mean that in the literal, John Gottman-certified sense.
I was visited by that white hot mommy rage far, far more than my mellow-friendly-vivacious-hippie self ever, ever would have imagined. After my divorce it has disappeared completely. In hindsight I see how much that was exacerbated by being abandoned in the midst of challenge--any challenge, certainly parenting challenges among them--by my conflict-avoidant husband. Bad enough to have some hard situation to deal with. Worse yet to know that not only (a) you handle it or it won't get handled, but also (b) the person who's supposed to be your teammate only makes it worse. Single parenting is a relief in comparison.
posted by Sublimity at 10:18 AM on March 1, 2018 [14 favorites]
However I don't think it's demanding zen, or being sanctimonious, to talk about being uncomfortable with a "mom rage" that is described as immolation and wearing a rage suit under the skin.
The problem is that it is, I think, excessive to condemn that mom rage as abusive or even abusive-adjacent. It’s apparently not enough to control outward manifestations of rage, one has to repress inner rage as well, lest their children be emotionally scarred by it? Actually, apparently one has to just NOT FEEL that rage at all.
This to me is all part of emotional labor imbalance. We’re talking about mom rage because most of the things that cause mom rage are essentially stress fractures: it’s not the first time your child refuses to put her shoes on, it’s the 50th time. It’s not the first time your partner undermines you, it’s the 50th time. It’s not the first time your child doesn’t stop when you ask him, it’s the 50th time.
posted by lydhre at 10:24 AM on March 1, 2018 [22 favorites]
The problem is that it is, I think, excessive to condemn that mom rage as abusive or even abusive-adjacent. It’s apparently not enough to control outward manifestations of rage, one has to repress inner rage as well, lest their children be emotionally scarred by it? Actually, apparently one has to just NOT FEEL that rage at all.
This to me is all part of emotional labor imbalance. We’re talking about mom rage because most of the things that cause mom rage are essentially stress fractures: it’s not the first time your child refuses to put her shoes on, it’s the 50th time. It’s not the first time your partner undermines you, it’s the 50th time. It’s not the first time your child doesn’t stop when you ask him, it’s the 50th time.
posted by lydhre at 10:24 AM on March 1, 2018 [22 favorites]
I took the point of theora's comment to mean that it's not enough to simply stuff down the rage and pretend it's not there. Your kids can still tell. It seeps out. That's why it's important to talk about it with your kids and/or seek help if you are truly feeling like you're wearing a rage suit an unreasonable amount of time. You're not a bad person or a bad mom for feeling mom-rage, but it is a problem if you (not you, personally) don't develop coping strategies.
posted by nakedmolerats at 10:30 AM on March 1, 2018 [8 favorites]
posted by nakedmolerats at 10:30 AM on March 1, 2018 [8 favorites]
Children are people, surprisingly intense people who are trying to manipulate you much of the time, and they are not only involuntary roommates, they cannot be evicted and you are responsible for their health and well-being no matter how little they contribute to the utilities. They are often also bullies.
My approach was to accept most of her choices but to refuse to be manipulated by the bullying. She is 35 now and still tells me how infuriating it was that sometimes I would start laughing when she was having a tantrum. But when she's really upset about something, she checks in with me and I drop everything and help her cope with it, because I know she's not trying to manipulate me.
And she does the same for me.
Children are not Victorian-era innocent little angels who get to avoid all difficulty. They are people, for good and for bad, and we're stuck with them. I love children so much I went into teaching as a career, but I never had another kid of my own because that was enough, thank you.
posted by Peach at 11:15 AM on March 1, 2018 [12 favorites]
My approach was to accept most of her choices but to refuse to be manipulated by the bullying. She is 35 now and still tells me how infuriating it was that sometimes I would start laughing when she was having a tantrum. But when she's really upset about something, she checks in with me and I drop everything and help her cope with it, because I know she's not trying to manipulate me.
And she does the same for me.
Children are not Victorian-era innocent little angels who get to avoid all difficulty. They are people, for good and for bad, and we're stuck with them. I love children so much I went into teaching as a career, but I never had another kid of my own because that was enough, thank you.
posted by Peach at 11:15 AM on March 1, 2018 [12 favorites]
So just this morning, my (12-year-old) kid pulled this:
Me: Tired, huh?
Him: Suh tirud ah can't tahlk (basically talking like his mouth muscles were too tired to work).
Me: (thinking: ha, that's funny) Yeah, right, ha!
Him: WHAT DO YOU MEAN?
Me: Well, it's a little dramatic, but let's go to school.
Him: *sullen, teary-eyed sulks*
Me: What?
Him: HOW DARE YOU CALL ME DRAMATIC??? I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU WOULD SAY THAT MOM!!!
And then he refused to talk to me all the way to school for 20 minutes.
Hilarious, right? But also, more than I want to deal with at 8-fucking-a.m. Jesus Christ kid can we just get you to school without this bullshit????
posted by emjaybee at 11:57 AM on March 1, 2018 [5 favorites]
Me: Tired, huh?
Him: Suh tirud ah can't tahlk (basically talking like his mouth muscles were too tired to work).
Me: (thinking: ha, that's funny) Yeah, right, ha!
Him: WHAT DO YOU MEAN?
Me: Well, it's a little dramatic, but let's go to school.
Him: *sullen, teary-eyed sulks*
Me: What?
Him: HOW DARE YOU CALL ME DRAMATIC??? I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU WOULD SAY THAT MOM!!!
And then he refused to talk to me all the way to school for 20 minutes.
Hilarious, right? But also, more than I want to deal with at 8-fucking-a.m. Jesus Christ kid can we just get you to school without this bullshit????
posted by emjaybee at 11:57 AM on March 1, 2018 [5 favorites]
Maybe get a depression screening if the rage suit lasts more than 36 hours....
Yup, that was exactly my point. If a kid not putting on her shoes throws you into a whole-body immolating rage going on for hours, you may be just a typical mom, you might also have mental health stuff going on. This is not sanctimommying, I‘ve had my own share of mental health problems and I know it‘s very hard to see from the inside which territory you‘re in - normal healthy emotional reaction to overwhelming life stuff, or something you might need help with.
General point: Not every disagreement between moms needs to be classified as ‚mommy wars‘, ‚sanctimommying‘ or whatever. Sometimes there‘s just different ways of coming at a problem, and both are valid. We need to be able to talk about stuff like this without the assumption that the everybody out there is out there attacking the very core of our identity.
Yup I feel the pressure not to show bad emotions as a woman and particularly a mother. And yes I feel how painful it is not to be heard as a woman (in society and within the family system). Oh boy do I ever. But yes, I also feel that sometimes I need to check my privilege as an adult, who is dealing with helpless children. My being oppressed in one context does not preclude me from being an oppressor in others.
posted by The Toad at 12:02 PM on March 1, 2018 [4 favorites]
Yup, that was exactly my point. If a kid not putting on her shoes throws you into a whole-body immolating rage going on for hours, you may be just a typical mom, you might also have mental health stuff going on. This is not sanctimommying, I‘ve had my own share of mental health problems and I know it‘s very hard to see from the inside which territory you‘re in - normal healthy emotional reaction to overwhelming life stuff, or something you might need help with.
General point: Not every disagreement between moms needs to be classified as ‚mommy wars‘, ‚sanctimommying‘ or whatever. Sometimes there‘s just different ways of coming at a problem, and both are valid. We need to be able to talk about stuff like this without the assumption that the everybody out there is out there attacking the very core of our identity.
Yup I feel the pressure not to show bad emotions as a woman and particularly a mother. And yes I feel how painful it is not to be heard as a woman (in society and within the family system). Oh boy do I ever. But yes, I also feel that sometimes I need to check my privilege as an adult, who is dealing with helpless children. My being oppressed in one context does not preclude me from being an oppressor in others.
posted by The Toad at 12:02 PM on March 1, 2018 [4 favorites]
The more people get the message early on that having children isn't all fun and games, the fewer people will have to live lives of pain or misery because people who shouldn't have had them will think twice before having children because "it's just what you do" or because they're bored or lonely or gaga for cute little babies the same way they are for puppies or kittens or because why be super-vigilant about BC when accidents aren't so bad or because only "ethnic" people could have any negative feelings about their own children and on and on and on.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 12:21 PM on March 1, 2018 [9 favorites]
posted by The Underpants Monster at 12:21 PM on March 1, 2018 [9 favorites]
i was generally a well-behaved kid but I can still remember some times I semi-knowingly trolled the shit out of my parents and the thought of their bewildered anger is still very funny to me.
also, i believe the author of this cartoon may be employing hyperbole for comedic effect.
posted by vogon_poet at 2:27 PM on March 1, 2018 [1 favorite]
also, i believe the author of this cartoon may be employing hyperbole for comedic effect.
posted by vogon_poet at 2:27 PM on March 1, 2018 [1 favorite]
Hmmmm. I think the difficulty for parents is knowing the difference between justified anger and simply overreacting. In the comic, the kid doesn't put on her shoes. Now that could be a real problem for a number of reasons, or it could be the mother losing her shit in an inappropriate and childish (irony!) manner. And those situations can get really really specific and tangled: maybe you told the kid to put on his/her shoes and you had this whole talk about how important it is to put on your shoes in a timely manner because reasons, and how if you don't draw a line in the sand it could cause even bigger issues later on. BUT the kid could be tired or hungry or having some problem you don't even know about or just simply forgot like everyone does from time to time....or it could be multiple truths like these all mixed up together...and a typical human parent has to make judgments like this all the time, and it's not easy.
So yeah, the comic is darkly funny, and all parents can relate, but at the same time it's also just kind of dark, and virtually all people can relate to their childhood when parents at least a few times (if not a lot more) being unfair and abusive and just wrong about things like this sometimes.
posted by zardoz at 3:16 PM on March 1, 2018 [2 favorites]
So yeah, the comic is darkly funny, and all parents can relate, but at the same time it's also just kind of dark, and virtually all people can relate to their childhood when parents at least a few times (if not a lot more) being unfair and abusive and just wrong about things like this sometimes.
posted by zardoz at 3:16 PM on March 1, 2018 [2 favorites]
BIL (in the most sarcastic voice imaginable): WELL, if you don’t want *ANYTHING*, you should be the *HAPPIEST* boy in the *WORLD*. So why are you crying?
...
My mother got angry and frustrated like all of everybody ever, and half of my life was yelling back and forth with her. there were plenty of times she thought my pain was hilarious, too. would not have occurred to her I would remember it forever or hold it against her, although of course I do. but she was never mean, like deliberate mean, like mock a four-year-old for not knowing how to translate intangible pain or unhappiness into a concrete request for a wanted object and then mock him for losing a logical argument with an adult mean.
way too late to thank her for not being one of the Alec Baldwins of the world. but truthfully, I never thought it was something to be thankful for. It is not the only choice for a parent, be a Baldwin or be a saintly doormat. there are hundreds of other choices to make and I recommend nearly all of them. getting frustrated with your kids is normal. letting them see your temper sometimes is usually ok. letting them see they're making you miserable is sometimes good for them. empathy for mothers - parents generally but mothers are the ones who get the least, so, mothers -- is too important to teach not to do it however you can. but being nasty to kids is different and it is nothing but awful.
Alec Baldwin left for his daughter came out; they had parents who were hugely relieved that they weren't the only ones.
this cartoon is not in the same fucking universe as Alec "pig" Baldwin's voicemail. if those other parents truly empathized with him, they are as vile as he is; this cartoon is not like that.
posted by queenofbithynia at 7:13 PM on March 1, 2018 [6 favorites]
...
My mother got angry and frustrated like all of everybody ever, and half of my life was yelling back and forth with her. there were plenty of times she thought my pain was hilarious, too. would not have occurred to her I would remember it forever or hold it against her, although of course I do. but she was never mean, like deliberate mean, like mock a four-year-old for not knowing how to translate intangible pain or unhappiness into a concrete request for a wanted object and then mock him for losing a logical argument with an adult mean.
way too late to thank her for not being one of the Alec Baldwins of the world. but truthfully, I never thought it was something to be thankful for. It is not the only choice for a parent, be a Baldwin or be a saintly doormat. there are hundreds of other choices to make and I recommend nearly all of them. getting frustrated with your kids is normal. letting them see your temper sometimes is usually ok. letting them see they're making you miserable is sometimes good for them. empathy for mothers - parents generally but mothers are the ones who get the least, so, mothers -- is too important to teach not to do it however you can. but being nasty to kids is different and it is nothing but awful.
Alec Baldwin left for his daughter came out; they had parents who were hugely relieved that they weren't the only ones.
this cartoon is not in the same fucking universe as Alec "pig" Baldwin's voicemail. if those other parents truly empathized with him, they are as vile as he is; this cartoon is not like that.
posted by queenofbithynia at 7:13 PM on March 1, 2018 [6 favorites]
Yeah, I struggle with this kind of thing, having lived with some really abusive behavior from my own mom--of course she could also be annoyed in a normal-adult way, but when you live with someone who is abusive those behaviors sort of get elided and it all gets normalized. And you also learn to internalize abusive messages so of course it's always the kid's fault for being so awful. Plus your brain just kind of gets . . . jumpy and reactive, when you grow up with abuse, and you see another kid acting out and not only do you think I would get spanked but also you need to stop or we'll all going to get it and if I am not perfect I am failing and I'm going to get it. I think the mom here admitting she would have been spanked is more significant than she knows.
I like that she walks away and cools off. A parent removing themselves from the situation to calm down sounds fucking great in my book, but even with my really emotive 4 year old (really, really emotive, really) my rage really does eventually cool off (often surprisingly quickly!) and I can talk to my kid about it, and that feels like a triumph. I guess that's what therapy is for, and also watching loads of Daniel Tiger & Mister Rogers. I tell the kid they're for her, but they're really for me, the kid who was never taught any emotional regulation myself.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 7:35 PM on March 1, 2018 [9 favorites]
I like that she walks away and cools off. A parent removing themselves from the situation to calm down sounds fucking great in my book, but even with my really emotive 4 year old (really, really emotive, really) my rage really does eventually cool off (often surprisingly quickly!) and I can talk to my kid about it, and that feels like a triumph. I guess that's what therapy is for, and also watching loads of Daniel Tiger & Mister Rogers. I tell the kid they're for her, but they're really for me, the kid who was never taught any emotional regulation myself.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 7:35 PM on March 1, 2018 [9 favorites]
Like, in a similar vein, someone I know recently gave another acquaintance parenting advice online, and it was that when her child is acting out, she tells her "stop being such an asshole," and I was called asshole about a lot of things my mom felt justified about but it absolutely crushed me and in retrospect she was just . . . being an abusive asshole. I am really sensitive to people calling children names because of that, even the mom saying her child was an obstinate, snot-nosed whatever, here, but I get that maybe there can be a context where it's possibly not so loaded. but I wouldn't risk it, personally. Ever.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 7:40 PM on March 1, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 7:40 PM on March 1, 2018 [4 favorites]
also, i believe the author of this cartoon may be employing hyperbole for comedic effect
yeah i mean i don't want to flakesplain at the thread or minimise the pain of people who had to deal with emotionally-abusive parents because oh jeez i have been there but if you're taking the rage-suit thing literally and you haven't previously enjoyed Lulu Eightball, absurdist over-the-top self-deprecating hyperbole is basically her thing
posted by halation at 5:03 AM on March 2, 2018
yeah i mean i don't want to flakesplain at the thread or minimise the pain of people who had to deal with emotionally-abusive parents because oh jeez i have been there but if you're taking the rage-suit thing literally and you haven't previously enjoyed Lulu Eightball, absurdist over-the-top self-deprecating hyperbole is basically her thing
posted by halation at 5:03 AM on March 2, 2018
It’s apparently not enough to control outward manifestations of rage, one has to repress inner rage as well, lest their children be emotionally scarred by it? Actually, apparently one has to just NOT FEEL that rage at all.
I think this is a really excellent point and not a distinction that existed in my house growing up.
And yet...I'm still going to say that when I was learning to deal with my own anger (pre-kids), a huge part of the way out of ending up exploding all over friends and partners was first to understand that those explosions were 100% toxic. And second to work and plan not get to that level upset in the first place, not by insisting on perfection in my soul, but in changing my stressors and my self-awareness on the path to explosion. A lot of what I did before I had kids is hard to achieve with kids (don't get too tired, for example).
I do feel like moms are set up for failure in stressor-management by both realities of childhood development and also by society which stresses them out, the nuclear family model, etc. etc. And ironically part of that is trying to be Not Bad for their kids and not enacting rage and anger are a part of that. I so get that.
But I guess that like nakedmolerats was saying about mommy media, I feel like making the experience of rage the solidarity moment, while like, really solid as a concept, women caring for women, makes me itchy.
but if you're taking the rage-suit thing literally and you haven't previously enjoyed Lulu Eightball, absurdist over-the-top self-deprecating hyperbole is basically her thing
I get that it's art, or at least media, and part of that is provoking a response, which definitely worked. But for me personally it really does read a little closer on the scale to a rape joke than a human foibles joke. I keep wanting to get okay with it for all the reasons expressed in this conversation thread, but I'm still not.
posted by warriorqueen at 5:57 AM on March 2, 2018 [4 favorites]
I think this is a really excellent point and not a distinction that existed in my house growing up.
And yet...I'm still going to say that when I was learning to deal with my own anger (pre-kids), a huge part of the way out of ending up exploding all over friends and partners was first to understand that those explosions were 100% toxic. And second to work and plan not get to that level upset in the first place, not by insisting on perfection in my soul, but in changing my stressors and my self-awareness on the path to explosion. A lot of what I did before I had kids is hard to achieve with kids (don't get too tired, for example).
I do feel like moms are set up for failure in stressor-management by both realities of childhood development and also by society which stresses them out, the nuclear family model, etc. etc. And ironically part of that is trying to be Not Bad for their kids and not enacting rage and anger are a part of that. I so get that.
But I guess that like nakedmolerats was saying about mommy media, I feel like making the experience of rage the solidarity moment, while like, really solid as a concept, women caring for women, makes me itchy.
but if you're taking the rage-suit thing literally and you haven't previously enjoyed Lulu Eightball, absurdist over-the-top self-deprecating hyperbole is basically her thing
I get that it's art, or at least media, and part of that is provoking a response, which definitely worked. But for me personally it really does read a little closer on the scale to a rape joke than a human foibles joke. I keep wanting to get okay with it for all the reasons expressed in this conversation thread, but I'm still not.
posted by warriorqueen at 5:57 AM on March 2, 2018 [4 favorites]
It’s apparently not enough to control outward manifestations of rage, one has to repress inner rage as well, lest their children be emotionally scarred by it?
My reading of "That stuffed down rage? Your kid knows it's there" is it meant they know it's there, so you should know it's there. You just do the anger usual things, you say "I'm feeling very mad, that's why the weird smooth voice, and I need to calm down by myself", you apologize when needed, you notice and deal with if you're having too much of it. The anger has all the usual costs and work. Soi you don't convince yourself it's okay for bottled-up anger to creep into a routine.
What you most of all avoid is pretending you're not mad, or fooling yourself you're not mad. That's the worst kind of gaslighting. It doesn't just damage the child's ability to understand you and other people, it teaches them to lose their handle on their own emotions too, which is hell to get back from.
posted by away for regrooving at 1:50 AM on March 5, 2018 [2 favorites]
My reading of "That stuffed down rage? Your kid knows it's there" is it meant they know it's there, so you should know it's there. You just do the anger usual things, you say "I'm feeling very mad, that's why the weird smooth voice, and I need to calm down by myself", you apologize when needed, you notice and deal with if you're having too much of it. The anger has all the usual costs and work. Soi you don't convince yourself it's okay for bottled-up anger to creep into a routine.
What you most of all avoid is pretending you're not mad, or fooling yourself you're not mad. That's the worst kind of gaslighting. It doesn't just damage the child's ability to understand you and other people, it teaches them to lose their handle on their own emotions too, which is hell to get back from.
posted by away for regrooving at 1:50 AM on March 5, 2018 [2 favorites]
Man, y'all, I though the terrible twos were bad. Then the toddler domination years. Then starting school. How could I not have remembered how difficult high school is, was, and will ever be? My teenager, oh my lord, if I do not get nominated for sainthood by the time he graduates, there is no justice in this cruel, cruel world.
Thanks everyone for sharing your stories. You've all given me things to ponder. Hugs all around. We're all doing the best we can with what we have.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 6:12 PM on March 6, 2018
Thanks everyone for sharing your stories. You've all given me things to ponder. Hugs all around. We're all doing the best we can with what we have.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 6:12 PM on March 6, 2018
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This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
But my mother used to carry this rage with her that was (is) deep and it would come out and be terrifying. Terrifying. (Also abusive, unlike this piece. But it was this kind of simmering.) It was so common that I obsessed on this for years before conceiving my kids, and the first few years I...waited for it to arrive. And it hasn’t, not like that. My mother used to lose her shit when one of us vomited, and the first time my kid vomited on me I was like...that’s...it? And I’ve had so many moments like that. Way more than anger.
I don’t think we should at all shame enraged moms but I’m uncomfortable normalizing it.
posted by warriorqueen at 7:11 PM on February 28, 2018 [51 favorites]