"That, and if it runs like screaming-hot glue out of a glue gun."

March 1, 2018 8:52 AM

A brief history of queso, with a discussion of why Velveeta and Ro-Tel is good and other attempts at it have failed.
posted by Copronymus (62 comments total)

But the queso—the queso was divine.

This may go on my tombstone.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 9:06 AM on March 1, 2018 [5 favorites]

All I can say here is, my 90 year old aunt, once made me drive miles and miles back to the grocery store, and turn in the tomato sauce I had purchased for her, and bring home the Ro-Tel. That is all.
posted by Oyéah at 9:06 AM on March 1, 2018 [18 favorites]

Helen Hollyman told me that her ultimate queso is the Bob Armstrong Dip at an Austin restaurant called Matt’s El Rancho, which is all about the toppings: guacamole, “taco meat” (seasoned ground beef), and sour cream.

I like that her favorite version turns it directly into the exact same dish that all other Tex-Mex is. The only question is how you like your tortilla cooked. Well, I guess not the exact same, because it doesn't have any beans.
posted by The_Vegetables at 9:08 AM on March 1, 2018

It's true. I am a super scratch-cooking slow foodie and all that, but I will clean out a bowl of Velveeta and Ro-Tel, no problem.
posted by Miko at 9:11 AM on March 1, 2018 [9 favorites]

Wegmans has Ro-Tel. Which is good. But the best is when someone screwed up and I found blocks of Velveeta Queso Blanco at The Dollar Tree. That was a good day.
posted by valkane at 9:14 AM on March 1, 2018 [3 favorites]

Side note: unlike other areas, in my neck of the woods everything at The Dollar Tree is $1 (or less).
posted by valkane at 9:15 AM on March 1, 2018

Coincidentally, last week's Memphis Flyer cover story was about the city's love affair with Pancho's Cheese Dip.
posted by vibrotronica at 9:16 AM on March 1, 2018 [3 favorites]

“When I die, drizzle queso over my grave,” the food writer, editor, and native Texan Helen Hollyman told me recently.

I don't plan to be buried, but I would be fine with either having my ashes kept in a Velveeta box or, if I go with alkaline hydrolysis, you can just put a Velveeta box on the mantel in memoriam.
posted by Lyn Never at 9:16 AM on March 1, 2018

Someone needs to tell the folks who are being adventuresome with their cheese selection about sodium citrate. Also, here are some queso related posts from the Homesick Texan blog mentioned in the post.

I had been pondering what to eat for dinner tonight, and it is looking like Mexican is the current frontrunner. We will see what other food related posts sway my thoughts in the next several hours.
posted by TedW at 9:16 AM on March 1, 2018 [6 favorites]

If you, like me, keep citric acid in the house for descaling the coffee pot, you should know that you can make sodium citrate by mixing citric acid and baking soda with a little water or milk at a ratio of about 1.2 : 1. You can use this to turn a block of just about any cheese into a velvety sauce.
posted by uncleozzy at 9:17 AM on March 1, 2018 [38 favorites]

As a Texan, I prefer a little more heat in my queso. Regular Ro-Tel is ok but some stores carry the “Hot” Ro-Tel with habaneros instead of chilis. In a pinch, Pace’s will do. As valkane suggested above, a better version of queso is 1:1 Velveeta and queso blanco.

The San Antonio version of the Philly cheese steak is queso, carne asada, and onions on a fresh tortilla.

And, for regular dipping and snacking, don’t forget the chips. Quality, strong chips are key.
posted by sudogeek at 9:19 AM on March 1, 2018

I'm still not over the time someone on the blue insulted queso for classist reasons.
posted by tofu_crouton at 9:20 AM on March 1, 2018 [1 favorite]

I read the entire Queso book that's referenced in the article and I did find it really worthwhile for any curious Texan. It explores various claims about history and authenticity and really does have a great variety of recipes. I tried the Torchy's replica and a vegan queso. The Torchy's was fine; its biggest accomplishment was that it had a good Torchy's salsa recipe. The vegan one wasn't as good as recipes from all-vegan sources that I've had in the past.

Making restaurant quality queso at home is difficult because almost all restaurants use Land O Lakes Extra Melt which can only be bought in restaurant-sized quantities. HEB, however, does sell their own excellent replicas, for those of us lucky enough to have one nearby.
posted by tofu_crouton at 9:23 AM on March 1, 2018 [5 favorites]

citric acid and baking soda with a little water or milk at a ratio of about 1.2 : 1

Apologies, I think I typed this backwards (.85 : 1 mixed in the given order, or 1.2 : 1 the other way around).
posted by uncleozzy at 9:23 AM on March 1, 2018 [8 favorites]

Years ago one of my duties was to make the queso for happy hour. It was a house paint sized can of cheesy food service glop with the addition of several small cans of Ro-Tel dumped into crockpot. Surprisingly, no one ever complained...
posted by jim in austin at 9:24 AM on March 1, 2018

But, while doing research for her book, Fain discovered quesos that use all kinds of cheese, from American to asadero, Muenster to Monterey Jack, queso fresco, and even panela

Just so sentences like the one above are a bit less ridiculous, could you guys call that goopy thing "Tex-Mex cheese dip" or something instead of "queso"? Queso is just the Spanish for cheese, not a particular dish.
posted by sukeban at 9:45 AM on March 1, 2018 [4 favorites]

I love many forms of queso (and now will have to have it for dinner), and now that I live in California and have no access to proper Tex-Mex I am especially mourning Chili's reformulation of their previously really good queso, which had a modest bit of taco meat in it and a slightly smoky flavor (and it was a darker color than most quesos, even con carne, so I suspect it was smoked paprika or chili powder that did that, maybe a little cumin too). It was a smidge on the thin side, but that was perfect for their paper-thin super-crisp chips. None of those things are true about it anymore.

And now that I'm not in San Diego anymore I don't even have access to Miguel's and their divine, habit-forming jalapeño cream sauce/white sauce. There are copycat recipes (roux, no roux), but a) it's not the same without fresh chips b) it's super dangerous to have three cups of the stuff inside your house, because there's no way to prevent having three cups of it in your belly, and I'm not into food shaming but it is real uncomfortable.
posted by Lyn Never at 9:49 AM on March 1, 2018 [1 favorite]

Just so sentences like the one above are a bit less ridiculous, could you guys call that goopy thing "Tex-Mex cheese dip" or something instead of "queso"? Queso is just the Spanish for cheese, not a particular dish.

And 'hummus' means 'chickpea'. And Calliope is a Greek mythological muse, not a fair ride. But that's just not how language works and evolves, sorry.
posted by tofu_crouton at 9:53 AM on March 1, 2018 [40 favorites]

You're not the one translating it in your head to "Fain descubrió quesos que usan todo tipo de quesos".
posted by sukeban at 9:55 AM on March 1, 2018 [1 favorite]

My Colombian family and I never seem to have problems figuring out which is being referred to.
posted by tofu_crouton at 9:56 AM on March 1, 2018 [3 favorites]

I don't have any problems figuring out which is being referred to, it's just painful to read.
posted by sukeban at 10:01 AM on March 1, 2018 [1 favorite]

Imagine the confusion German-speakers have about the American habit of devouring Hamburgers and Wieners.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 10:05 AM on March 1, 2018 [12 favorites]

Am I the only one who thinks Velveeta is a oily block of anus? I love cheese to my dying day but that crap aint cheese

#NotClassistISwear
posted by ShawnString at 10:07 AM on March 1, 2018 [3 favorites]

I will always have warm fuzzies for the stuff you pump onto your chips at the 7-11. A proper Cocola flavored slurpee and some of those... not nachos really... nachuloids maybe... that's a good time there. Especially eaten off the hood of a ratty 81 Honda.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 10:08 AM on March 1, 2018 [5 favorites]

Probably add chai to the docket also.

Anyway reading about $cheesedip brings me an immediate sense memory of the salsa con queso at Macado's that I ate quite a lot of in college, and how sometime during my tenure in SWVA they started putting shredded cheese on top of the bowl so that it would melt and re-congeal into what we called the Queso Membrane, which it was best to pierce quickly before it got considerably more difficult to share.
posted by clavicle at 10:12 AM on March 1, 2018 [2 favorites]

guys mustard is the plant you should be talking about "prepared mustard"
posted by 7segment at 10:17 AM on March 1, 2018 [16 favorites]

This use of the word 'queso' is very regional. I suppose Texas? I didn't learn about it until recently.

And none of my Southern California Mexican family would understand. On the other hand, this thing exists (the cheese thing on nachos) so the only revelation is that there is a name for it.

It is only confusing for Spanish speakers, I guess, but in a region where so many people speak Spanish that isn't a minor thing. It looks like in Mexico it is called 'Chile con Queso' or 'Queso Chihuaua' and then was shortened to this at some point.
posted by vacapinta at 10:19 AM on March 1, 2018 [2 favorites]

"Apologies, I think I typed this backwards" That recipe will end all your problems in just a few minutes, maybe, I mean, if life isn't your thing.
posted by Oyéah at 10:21 AM on March 1, 2018 [1 favorite]

I have one of those "community cookbooks" from my rural New Hampshire hometown which has the Velveeta and Ro-Tel dip listed as "Concaso".
posted by Daily Alice at 10:21 AM on March 1, 2018 [13 favorites]

'Queso Chihuaua' Small dog, trembling with cheese sweat.
posted by Oyéah at 10:22 AM on March 1, 2018 [8 favorites]

I haven't watched it yet, but there's a short documentary about "cheese dip" in Arkansas.
posted by tofu_crouton at 10:25 AM on March 1, 2018 [2 favorites]

Also the article started by alluding to Chipotle. They are or started as a Nor-Cal-Mex chain so for them to even step into queso territory was a big category error.

The NewYorker writer is from Connecticut so she completely missed all these nuances.
posted by vacapinta at 10:25 AM on March 1, 2018 [1 favorite]

They are or started as a Nor-Cal-Mex chain so for them to even step into queso territory was a big category error.

Eh. It's not 1975, it's 2018. That distinction is long gone. Chipotle sell burritos and 'bowls', and bowls are basically Tex-Mex taco salads. The only thing that could make Chipotle more Tex-Mex is to serve ground beef.
posted by The_Vegetables at 10:35 AM on March 1, 2018 [1 favorite]

As a Homesick Texan in Nor-Cal, I have all the feelings about this. Like pure hot rage when finding out some people and corporations should refer to it as salsa con queso. Because apparently people can’t parse the difference between chile con queso and chili con queso.

And now I’m mad the workday is so young. Hours and hours to wait until I can pick up some velveeta and rotel and taco meat and have a proper homesick happy hour. Really wish kolaches were as easy to make by myself.
posted by politikitty at 10:36 AM on March 1, 2018 [1 favorite]

It looks like in Mexico it is called 'Chile con Queso' or 'Queso Chihuaua' and then was shortened to this at some point.

The Spanish language wiki page says "Chili con queso is a starter served in Tex-Mex restaurants, and consists in velveeta cheese mixed with chile jalapeño. It's traditional in the cuisine of the Southwestern United States of America, and very rare outside Texas or Oklahoma since the cuisine of the southern states of the USA uses Mexican dishes, renamed for ease of use. [sic, it doesn't have a lot of sense in Spanish either] This dish is a variant of the dish called chile con queso, typical of the Mexican states of Chihuahua and Durango; the main difference being that in Mexico people use Chihuahua cheese and in the USA yellow cheeses or otherwise, and that in Mexico it's a main dinner dish rather than a starter".

This seems to be a Mexican video recipe, fast forward to the 24 minutes mark to see the finished chile con queso dish. I'm also seeing a lot of recipes of chilacas con queso which seem to have a lot of chiles poblanos in a cheese cream. And damn I'm hungry now.
posted by sukeban at 10:42 AM on March 1, 2018

Lisa Fain's Queso Book is indeed excellent. Honestly "melted cheese dip" is a bit of a limited topic for an entire cookbook but she does a game job of it discussing different varieties, the history, etc. And there's lots of fun recipes to try.

What I found most interesting was the different ways to make a creamy emulsion of melted cheese. Velveeta+Rotel works because Velveeta simply melts and doesn't break, no emulsion required. There's nothing magic about the Rotel, it's just good spicy tomatoes. Other ways to get the right texture are American cheese with a roux, American cheese with corn starch, or literally any kind of cheese and sodium citrate. Oddly there's nothing like a Swiss fondue, no hard cheeses with a bit of flour.

Most of the recipes in the book are American cheese based and gave me a new appreciation for that product. You can also mix in some more interesting cheese, just not too much, and it will hold together. I wish she'd spent more time with sodium citrate recipes because I think it's magic and potentially very interesting. But Fain is more a documenter of tradition, she doesn't develop recipes herself, and the sodium citrate thing is not in common usage.

As for language, the shorthand "queso" seems to be common to my Houston friends now, but wasn't 30 years ago. We'd still say "chile con queso" back then. Which is weird, since it's really more "queso con chile", but there we are.
posted by Nelson at 11:15 AM on March 1, 2018 [2 favorites]

I'm feel so old because I remember when velveeta was fancy and your parents served it to guests in your never otherwise used living room which was reserved for these special occasions.
posted by srboisvert at 11:26 AM on March 1, 2018 [3 favorites]

MetaFilter: a whole world beyond canned tomatoes and brick cheese.
posted by Splunge at 11:29 AM on March 1, 2018

I think the closest we have in Canada is this stuff - does it count?

Pioneer woman has a queso recipe in her new cookbook. I don't think this is actually it, but it must be similar. Can anyone speak to it's deliciousness and/or authenticity?

I'm having people over this weekend. Should I try to find some Ro-Tel and serve the real deal?
posted by kitcat at 11:50 AM on March 1, 2018

I don’t think I’ve ever had Queso- I suppose now I’m too lactose intolerant to even attempt it. It looks really really good though. What is Ro-tel good for besides queso?
posted by Homo neanderthalensis at 11:52 AM on March 1, 2018

Queso exists in the uncanny valley of cheese for me. For a long time I only liked cheddar, Parmesan, and mozzarella, hated american and other processed cheese, and was not a fan of fancy cheese. Now I like the "fancier" and stronger tasting cheeses, but I still get squicky on easy-melt cheese. But a melted "mexican" cheese mix, roux with spicy tomatoes & maybe chili meat does sound really tasty.

Cheese, Grommit!
posted by Hermeowne Grangepurr at 12:00 PM on March 1, 2018

No, Old El Paso chile con queso in a jar doesn't count KitCat, sorry. That's a pre-made chile con queso which is terrible. I mean it's trying to be the same thing as queso, so it sorta counts. But it's really bad; watery and underflavored.

The thing with Velveeta is it's a specific kind of food science, a very precisely engineered cheese product (not cheese) with a particular melt-friendly texture and flavor. I'm not sure there is any consumer substitute. Perhaps some other kind of "processed cheese", but you'd have to get specific. The key thing is you can simply heat Velveeta and it melts, doesn't break and doesn't require a starch to emulsify. Honestly I prefer the American cheese + corn starch recipes. I don't like the flavor of Velveeta, and there's more room for range. I suspect substitutes for American cheese are easier to find.

RoTel is really just canned tomatoes with some chiles and spices. You can totally substitute for that, the RoTel is just a convenience to have it all in one can.

KitCat's linked recipe looks delicious. It's a mix of Velveeta, some Jack cheese, and some condensed milk. It's relying on the Velveeta for texture. That one also includes chorizo which is great but boy do you get a very heavy dip when you stir meat into the cheese.

Also want to shout out to Lisa Fain for including a recipe for Felix's chile con queso. That's a weird variant beloved by Houstonians, notable for the half inch of bright red grease floating on top. That's the one with a flour roux, and is incredibly thick. The grease on top is almost like a tadka, a flavored oil stirred in. It's odd but beloved.
posted by Nelson at 12:03 PM on March 1, 2018 [5 favorites]

I know, ShawnString. Velveeta is ass. However, the thing to remember is that Velveeta plus Rotel is, however improbably, not ass. I tried to get all classist with the cheese part of the queso equation. I learned that you don't do that. If you do that, you will not end up with queso. You will end up with ass.
posted by Don Pepino at 12:10 PM on March 1, 2018 [10 favorites]

No, Old El Paso chile con queso in a jar doesn't count KitCat, sorry. That's a pre-made chile con queso which is terrible. I mean it's trying to be the same thing as queso, so it sorta counts. But it's really bad; watery and underflavored.

Ok, now I'm REALLY excited because I think that stuff is delicious, and if there's something better, bring it on!
posted by kitcat at 12:13 PM on March 1, 2018 [2 favorites]

In TFA, does "taco meat" really need to be enclosed in quotes and explained in a parenthetical?
posted by CheeseLouise at 12:16 PM on March 1, 2018 [2 favorites]

In my family (in Oklahoma, as per that wiki article quoted above) we always made our queso with Pace picante sauce instead of Ro-Tel. There was a learning curve to figure out how much picante sauce to add to get the right consistency. My wife grew up in Texas and she's a Ro-Tel gal, so that's what we use now. Our metric for restaurant queso is if it manages to be at least as good as Velveeta and Ro-Tel. You'd think that wouldn't be hard, but in DC this bar turns out to be hard to reach. (Republic Kolache's queso is the real deal, though).

I'm intrigued by the food science of adding sodium citrate to make any cheese melty, but Velveeta is what we both grew up with and it seems like heresy to try to improve on it at home.

(Also, we took Lipton onion soup dip to a party a few years ago and it blew people's minds. The 70s weren't all bad.)
posted by fedward at 12:17 PM on March 1, 2018 [3 favorites]

On the subject of nomenclature, when I was much younger, chile con queso made with Velveeta and Rotel was simply known as "Rotel"; as in "I'm making some Rotel for the party tonight." This was in Texas in the 70s-80s, when Rotel was not found in a lot of places outside of Texas.
posted by TedW at 12:20 PM on March 1, 2018 [5 favorites]

we took Lipton onion soup dip to a party a few years ago and it blew people's minds

What kind of fancy crowd do you roll with that onion dip is a novelty? I hope you mixed it right in the sour cream container for the extra cred.
posted by uncleozzy at 12:22 PM on March 1, 2018 [8 favorites]

Combination of people who didn't live through the 70s and people who did but who "forgot" (their response: OMG, is that Lipton?). And we had mixed it in a bowl at home (neater) but put it back in the container for transport.
posted by fedward at 12:27 PM on March 1, 2018 [2 favorites]

In TFA, does "taco meat" really need to be enclosed in quotes and explained in a parenthetical?

The New Yorker does everything it can to coöperate with its more sheltered readers.
posted by Copronymus at 12:29 PM on March 1, 2018 [14 favorites]

I'm cackling that this article starts out with the Chipotle queso debacle, because Q-Doba gets their franchised-burrito alliance from me primarily because of their cracktastic queso, the ingredients of which I wish to remain blissfully unaware.
posted by paisley sheep at 12:44 PM on March 1, 2018 [4 favorites]

which can only be bought in restaurant-sized quantities

this sounds like a feature, not a bug
challenge accepted
posted by halation at 1:15 PM on March 1, 2018 [1 favorite]

Previously
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 1:28 PM on March 1, 2018 [1 favorite]

feeling sheltered in the weirdest way - it never occurred to me until this thread that not every grocery store had Ro-Tel. Ours has atleast 4 or 5 variations.
posted by domino at 1:45 PM on March 1, 2018 [2 favorites]

As for language, the shorthand "queso" seems to be common to my Houston friends now, but wasn't 30 years ago.

Same here, when I was a kid in Texas in the 70s and 80s it was "chile con queso." I've only heard "queso" by itself in like the past 10 years.
posted by Miko at 1:49 PM on March 1, 2018 [1 favorite]

On the subject of nomenclature, when I was much younger, chile con queso made with Velveeta and Rotel was simply known as "Rotel"; as in "I'm making some Rotel for the party tonight."

Oh, and this? There was a distinction for my family - real "chile con queso" is what you got at the Mexican restaurant, made from flour and cheese and things. "Ro-Tel dip" was the version you made at home with Velveeta. We never called that "chile con queso."
posted by Miko at 1:50 PM on March 1, 2018 [2 favorites]

Nor-Cal-Mex chain

Way upthread, but Chipotle the fast food chain is from Colorado, yo. Unless you were referring to that particular style of norteño food as Nor-Cal-Mex? I guess it really isn't much like Mexican food in NM/CO/West Texas; it's not like they serve sopaipillas smothered in green.

Down in Huerfano County, CO, "queso" meant "cheese," the stuff Texans call queso was either "nacho cheese" or "queso picante", and if you put chorizo in it, it became "queso fundido."

My Latina sister-in-law calls it "queso," like a Texan, but she's from Wyoming so *shrug emoji*.
posted by aspersioncast at 3:38 PM on March 1, 2018

The San Antonio version of the Philly cheese steak is queso, carne asada, and onions on a fresh tortilla.

I've been served tacos de albañil with cheese added, but that's a bit different than what you are describing. It sounds good, though.
posted by Dip Flash at 5:57 PM on March 1, 2018 [1 favorite]

Homo neanderthalensis: “What is Ro-tel good for besides queso?”

Ro-tel is just diced tomatoes with some green chile added for some zing. It's great added to ground beef for tacos. You could pour a can or two into an Instant Pot, maybe add a can of diced tomatoes or a little chicken broth to make sure there's enough liquid, add a couple of boneless, skinless chicken breasts, set it for 15 minutes, and when it beeps you'll have chicken ready to be shredded and turned into chicken tacos or enchiladas, etc.

It's useful for Italian food too. I know it's heretical, but I put a can into my One Pan Penne Pasta.

kitcat: “Can anyone speak to it's deliciousness and/or authenticity? ”

I don't think that recipe would be a significant improvement over just Velveeta and Ro-tel.
posted by ob1quixote at 9:17 PM on March 1, 2018 [1 favorite]

Really wish kolaches were as easy to make by myself.
posted by politikitty at 1:36 PM on March 1

I've made Lisa Fain's kolache recipe and it's not that tough to make by yourself - just time consuming. Also, I only make savory kolaches (which I guess are technically koblasnek) and it can be hard to find the right kind of sausage. Hot Links will do in a pinch, though.

Queso is life!
posted by devinemissk at 6:10 AM on March 2, 2018 [1 favorite]

Can anyone speak to it's deliciousness and/or authenticity?

I think if you're going to cook that hard, you might as well make real chile con queso. This is the stuff I grew up on. It uses American cheese, which is different enough from Velveeta to make a significant flavor difference. And melting difference - you have to have the signature pools of grease for the Real Thing.
posted by Miko at 7:48 AM on March 2, 2018 [1 favorite]

The Mad Cheese Scientists Fighting to Save the Dairy Industry - "Amid an historic glut, a secretive, government-sponsored entity is putting cheese anywhere it can stuff it."
posted by kliuless at 10:55 PM on March 2, 2018