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March 29, 2018 11:58 AM Subscribe
The Bottom Line One in three families can’t afford diapers. Why are they so expensive? A report by the Tampa Bay Times.
tl;dr - They're expensive because the companies that make diapers want them to be.
The Tampa Bay region has at least two diaper banks: Babycycle in St. Petersburg and the Here We Grow Foundation in Clearwater.
tl;dr - They're expensive because the companies that make diapers want them to be.
The Tampa Bay region has at least two diaper banks: Babycycle in St. Petersburg and the Here We Grow Foundation in Clearwater.
Because I know someone is going to come in here and be all "but cloth is so much cheaaappper" I'm just going to post this here (from the article):
Cloth diapers aren’t always an option. They are difficult to clean without a washing machine at home or paying for a service. Some coin laundries don’t allow them in their machines.
Also, most daycares require parents to bring a supply of disposable diapers each morning. Without daycare, or a sitter, a single parent can’t work or go to school.
If you don't have a washing machine at home, cloth isn't going to be an option. If your infant is in daycare (particularly one that takes public assistance), cloth isn't going to be an option.
Cloth diapers are a privilege. They may have environmental advantages, but they are NOT cheaper.
posted by anastasiav at 12:14 PM on March 29, 2018 [83 favorites]
Cloth diapers aren’t always an option. They are difficult to clean without a washing machine at home or paying for a service. Some coin laundries don’t allow them in their machines.
Also, most daycares require parents to bring a supply of disposable diapers each morning. Without daycare, or a sitter, a single parent can’t work or go to school.
If you don't have a washing machine at home, cloth isn't going to be an option. If your infant is in daycare (particularly one that takes public assistance), cloth isn't going to be an option.
Cloth diapers are a privilege. They may have environmental advantages, but they are NOT cheaper.
posted by anastasiav at 12:14 PM on March 29, 2018 [83 favorites]
I all too well remember not ever having enough for diapers!
posted by Katjusa Roquette at 12:15 PM on March 29, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by Katjusa Roquette at 12:15 PM on March 29, 2018 [3 favorites]
It's been a while (thank god) but I recall diaper prices being insanely variable between brands and stores and at the same time heavily driven by coupons and discounts. So the best price for them definitely required stocking up, the ability to shop between multiple stores, and keeping track of best prices.
posted by The_Vegetables at 12:18 PM on March 29, 2018 [6 favorites]
posted by The_Vegetables at 12:18 PM on March 29, 2018 [6 favorites]
I think SNAP funds should be allowed to purchase things like diapers, pads/tampons, and toilet paper, but I also fucking hate the idea of a family debating between going hungry and buying diapers.
posted by elsietheeel at 12:21 PM on March 29, 2018 [33 favorites]
posted by elsietheeel at 12:21 PM on March 29, 2018 [33 favorites]
In the United States, the average diaper sells for about 25 cents.
Carl Cucuzza, a consultant based in Georgia, said Huggies and Pampers typically make about 2 cents per diaper. The profit on a generic diaper, he said, is about half that.
2/25 is 8%. For a $.15 generic diaper, 1/15 is 6.7%. Different markets are different, but 7-8% certainly isn’t a high profit margin.
Safety net programs are little help. Only one form of public assistance can be spent on diapers, and in Florida the average benefit hasn’t increased in more than two decades.
Hmm.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 12:21 PM on March 29, 2018 [5 favorites]
Carl Cucuzza, a consultant based in Georgia, said Huggies and Pampers typically make about 2 cents per diaper. The profit on a generic diaper, he said, is about half that.
2/25 is 8%. For a $.15 generic diaper, 1/15 is 6.7%. Different markets are different, but 7-8% certainly isn’t a high profit margin.
Safety net programs are little help. Only one form of public assistance can be spent on diapers, and in Florida the average benefit hasn’t increased in more than two decades.
Hmm.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 12:21 PM on March 29, 2018 [5 favorites]
My mom used cloth diapers, but she was also a stay-at-home mom, and we had a washer and dryer in the house. It's one of those things that can save money only if you have the money in the first place, like buying in bulk when things are on sale.
If you have to bring nappies to the laundromat every 2 days, you're not able to capture that savings. Just another example of the poverty trap.
posted by explosion at 12:23 PM on March 29, 2018 [13 favorites]
If you have to bring nappies to the laundromat every 2 days, you're not able to capture that savings. Just another example of the poverty trap.
posted by explosion at 12:23 PM on March 29, 2018 [13 favorites]
Ya, The_Vegetables, typical poverty trap stuff. The article mentions how much you could save if you could afford to be an Amazon Prime member.. yeesh! From a childless person's perspective, this just seems symptomatic of our fucked up modern economy.
The presentation in the article feels off to me though. I suppose, I'm just not the intended audience? <-- totally rhetorical, but derail if you must :)
posted by Chuckles at 12:24 PM on March 29, 2018 [4 favorites]
The presentation in the article feels off to me though. I suppose, I'm just not the intended audience
posted by Chuckles at 12:24 PM on March 29, 2018 [4 favorites]
Thumbs up for my hometown newspaper, THE ST. PETERSBURG Times**.
They do some amazing work, and I always love it when they really dig deep, no matter what the subject matter, be it Scientology or diapers or shitty charities or The Girl in the Window.
**Yes, I have been here long e-damn-nough to be able to NOT call them the Tampa Bay Times.
posted by Major Matt Mason Dixon at 12:29 PM on March 29, 2018 [14 favorites]
They do some amazing work, and I always love it when they really dig deep, no matter what the subject matter, be it Scientology or diapers or shitty charities or The Girl in the Window.
**Yes, I have been here long e-damn-nough to be able to NOT call them the Tampa Bay Times.
posted by Major Matt Mason Dixon at 12:29 PM on March 29, 2018 [14 favorites]
2/25 is 8%. For a $.15 generic diaper, 1/15 is 6.7%. Different markets are different, but 7-8% certainly isn’t a high profit margin.
The consumer is paying 25 cents per diaper, but that isn't what Huggies is selling them for to their distributor. The supply chain has a few links, all of which want their cut.
For all we know, it costs them 4 cents per diaper that leaves the factory, and they're selling for 6 cents, a 50% profit margin.
This article seems to imply that if they focused on cutting costs instead of adding features and padding profits, they could produce a diaper they could sell for half the price, but it's not good for their bottom line.
posted by explosion at 12:29 PM on March 29, 2018 [2 favorites]
The consumer is paying 25 cents per diaper, but that isn't what Huggies is selling them for to their distributor. The supply chain has a few links, all of which want their cut.
For all we know, it costs them 4 cents per diaper that leaves the factory, and they're selling for 6 cents, a 50% profit margin.
This article seems to imply that if they focused on cutting costs instead of adding features and padding profits, they could produce a diaper they could sell for half the price, but it's not good for their bottom line.
posted by explosion at 12:29 PM on March 29, 2018 [2 favorites]
If you don't have a washing machine at home, cloth isn't going to be an option.
User of cloth diapers on our two kiddos here, yep, can't even begin to consider what sort of solution would exist (outside of a diaper service but that's kinda not the point since we're talking dollars and cents here) for cloth users without a washing machine ready to hand. And I can understand why laundromats wouldn't accept them because... well, it could get overwhelmingly intense really fast outside of a place geared for them because ammonia smell and/or poop smell or general messiness.
I'm a big fan of cloth but if there's no washing machine in the house then it's a non-starter unless you go full Amish which, again, isn't realistic.
The daycare point is valid too. We found that maybe 1 out of 3 places would consider working with cloth diapers and, usually, they would fall in the more expensive/hoity-toity side of options so, once again, not valid discussion point here.
Not to mention that while we use cloth 80% of the time we still are far from militant about it and if we're getting on a plane or going on a car trip or maybe even to an extended visit with family or friends across town we are not against suiting up in a disposable right quick. It's not a whole lot easier (for us now that we're expert users, with tools and time, on our home turf) but take away any of those caveats and it becomes another ball game altogether.
I've also found that kids can be hard on diaper covers and that cloth diapers without a diaper liner (strategically used) are asking for more pain than you might be willing to handle. What I'm saying that there's still aspect that have an ongoing cost and depreciation to all but the basic cotton cloth diapers or wool soakers [not cheap] covers (which I'd fully expect both of those categories of items, bought from Greemmountaindiapers or second hand from the same to last through 5 or 6 kids infancy and toddler years).
Anyway, yay cloth diapers but in no way should that be used against folks already on the poverty line.
posted by RolandOfEld at 12:34 PM on March 29, 2018 [8 favorites]
User of cloth diapers on our two kiddos here, yep, can't even begin to consider what sort of solution would exist (outside of a diaper service but that's kinda not the point since we're talking dollars and cents here) for cloth users without a washing machine ready to hand. And I can understand why laundromats wouldn't accept them because... well, it could get overwhelmingly intense really fast outside of a place geared for them because ammonia smell and/or poop smell or general messiness.
I'm a big fan of cloth but if there's no washing machine in the house then it's a non-starter unless you go full Amish which, again, isn't realistic.
The daycare point is valid too. We found that maybe 1 out of 3 places would consider working with cloth diapers and, usually, they would fall in the more expensive/hoity-toity side of options so, once again, not valid discussion point here.
Not to mention that while we use cloth 80% of the time we still are far from militant about it and if we're getting on a plane or going on a car trip or maybe even to an extended visit with family or friends across town we are not against suiting up in a disposable right quick. It's not a whole lot easier (for us now that we're expert users, with tools and time, on our home turf) but take away any of those caveats and it becomes another ball game altogether.
I've also found that kids can be hard on diaper covers and that cloth diapers without a diaper liner (strategically used) are asking for more pain than you might be willing to handle. What I'm saying that there's still aspect that have an ongoing cost and depreciation to all but the basic cotton cloth diapers or wool soakers [not cheap] covers (which I'd fully expect both of those categories of items, bought from Greemmountaindiapers or second hand from the same to last through 5 or 6 kids infancy and toddler years).
Anyway, yay cloth diapers but in no way should that be used against folks already on the poverty line.
posted by RolandOfEld at 12:34 PM on March 29, 2018 [8 favorites]
Whenever there is a blackout, a riot, or any other condition that leads to looting, diapers seem to be one of the looted items of choice.
posted by StickyCarpet at 12:35 PM on March 29, 2018 [6 favorites]
posted by StickyCarpet at 12:35 PM on March 29, 2018 [6 favorites]
In the beginning I used cloth diapers. I washed them myself in the bathtub with copious amounts of boiling water in the rinse. I line dried them in the hot Texas sun. The ex pulled an ill-timed road trip when I had a tub full of diapers. It was meant to be overnight but ACTUALLY was a week. We came home to horrific stench. I dealt with the load, running fresh hot water and chlorine six times until the fungal jungle rot was gone. I hung them out to dry and then angrily sent him to to the store for Pampers. It was 1976. The 3 boxes cost nearly $30 from the nearest store he could get to which even sold diapers on a Sunday. Texas had those idiotic, stupid Blue laws.
Given how much water it takes, plus fuel to heat the water, I’m not sure that cloth diapers are entirely environmentally friendly. The growing of all that cotton as well. It might be a wash. (Pun intended!)
The fact is that as babies get older dealing with cloth diapers by hand gets worse. A tiny nursed newborn doesn’t generate a lot of waste, but once a baby is eating some solids, having to deal with that by hand is pretty awful. Frankly our finances stank. He did work hard, but the fact is, after the divorce, on welfare, I finally had almost enough to care for the children. They say finances break many a marriage.. That is true. The tension of doing his part was probably too much.
posted by Katjusa Roquette at 12:35 PM on March 29, 2018 [18 favorites]
Given how much water it takes, plus fuel to heat the water, I’m not sure that cloth diapers are entirely environmentally friendly. The growing of all that cotton as well. It might be a wash. (Pun intended!)
The fact is that as babies get older dealing with cloth diapers by hand gets worse. A tiny nursed newborn doesn’t generate a lot of waste, but once a baby is eating some solids, having to deal with that by hand is pretty awful. Frankly our finances stank. He did work hard, but the fact is, after the divorce, on welfare, I finally had almost enough to care for the children. They say finances break many a marriage.. That is true. The tension of doing his part was probably too much.
posted by Katjusa Roquette at 12:35 PM on March 29, 2018 [18 favorites]
This article seems to imply that if they focused on cutting costs instead of adding features and padding profits, they could produce a diaper they could sell for half the price, but it's not good for their bottom line.
I feel like this everytime I see the new model year of cars come out with new things to go wrong and new whistles to toot and marginal thought given to repair-ability and/or general maintenance concerns down the road past the warranty period. It's like humans (or at least Americans maybe?) are so sucked into the need to get newer and shinier things that they neglect to prioritize the things that could help them live a better live in so many ways.... Humbug.
posted by RolandOfEld at 12:37 PM on March 29, 2018 [2 favorites]
I feel like this everytime I see the new model year of cars come out with new things to go wrong and new whistles to toot and marginal thought given to repair-ability and/or general maintenance concerns down the road past the warranty period. It's like humans (or at least Americans maybe?) are so sucked into the need to get newer and shinier things that they neglect to prioritize the things that could help them live a better live in so many ways.... Humbug.
posted by RolandOfEld at 12:37 PM on March 29, 2018 [2 favorites]
This is just a reminder that most food pantries take donations of diapers and feminine hygiene products and both are very very needed (and frequently can not be acquired through the normal channels that food pantries get stuff outside of individual donations).
I used cloth diapers but there are two HUGE barriers: 1. You have to buy them all at once which means you have to be ready to outlay at least a couple hundred bucks all in one go and 2. You really do need accessible laundry equipment. This is pretty non-negotiable. I have many friends who thought they'd be the exception to that rule, and none of them were in the end.
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:38 PM on March 29, 2018 [7 favorites]
I used cloth diapers but there are two HUGE barriers: 1. You have to buy them all at once which means you have to be ready to outlay at least a couple hundred bucks all in one go and 2. You really do need accessible laundry equipment. This is pretty non-negotiable. I have many friends who thought they'd be the exception to that rule, and none of them were in the end.
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:38 PM on March 29, 2018 [7 favorites]
If you don't have a washing machine at home, cloth isn't going to be an option. If your infant is in daycare (particularly one that takes public assistance), cloth isn't going to be an option.
And even if you have a washing machine at home and childcare options that are fine with cloth, you're still going to have to pay a significant chunk of money upfront to buy them. Especially when you have a newborn that goes through many a day. We used cloth and I'm sure it saved us money in the long run, but we could only do it because we could afford that initial outlay in the first place.
So that's the really mean twist to 'cloth is cheaper' - yay, poor people, it's cheaper and you still can't do it!
posted by Catseye at 12:40 PM on March 29, 2018 [7 favorites]
And even if you have a washing machine at home and childcare options that are fine with cloth, you're still going to have to pay a significant chunk of money upfront to buy them. Especially when you have a newborn that goes through many a day. We used cloth and I'm sure it saved us money in the long run, but we could only do it because we could afford that initial outlay in the first place.
So that's the really mean twist to 'cloth is cheaper' - yay, poor people, it's cheaper and you still can't do it!
posted by Catseye at 12:40 PM on March 29, 2018 [7 favorites]
Part of me yearns for some sort of wonderful communist-lite cloth diaper program where folks could buy diapers from another family when their kid was born and the other kids were done with them. The cost would be a fraction of what new would cost because, at least my use has shown, the prefolds and flats we have used through 2 kiddos have A LOT of life left in them. Covers (velcro or snaps) do wear out/rip in non-repariable ways eventually but still...
Anyway, I think of things like that, then I realize that we have a populace that votes against it's own interests more often than not while also possessing some of the most judgmental / socially inflexible norms on the planet while also being capitalistic to the n-th degree such that we can't even provide intelligent health care or, lo and behold, diapers to those in need.
Then I just go home, hug my kids, love them until they go to sleep, and then proceed to drink and be grumpy. Thanks Obama, or something.
posted by RolandOfEld at 12:48 PM on March 29, 2018 [1 favorite]
Anyway, I think of things like that, then I realize that we have a populace that votes against it's own interests more often than not while also possessing some of the most judgmental / socially inflexible norms on the planet while also being capitalistic to the n-th degree such that we can't even provide intelligent health care or, lo and behold, diapers to those in need.
Then I just go home, hug my kids, love them until they go to sleep, and then proceed to drink and be grumpy. Thanks Obama, or something.
posted by RolandOfEld at 12:48 PM on March 29, 2018 [1 favorite]
Whenever there is a blackout, a riot, or any other condition that leads to looting, diapers seem to be one of the looted items of choice.
This is a documented in the monograph April 26, 1996 (Miami) by Sublime in which the lead researcher, Bradley1, points to their first-hand experience with citizens removing items from stores in LA:
I have a toddler. Diapers are crazy expensive. I think for items like diapers and menstrual products that are definitely not optional there should be a free government version. It doesn't have to be amazing (although I'm not adverse to that, nationalize the diaper industry) but it's unconscionable that we put people in a position where they can't afford to take care of their kids because of low wages and the insane costs of childcare and diapers and then demonize them as bad parents. It's not okay. People need to have the ability to take care of their kids.
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 12:50 PM on March 29, 2018 [34 favorites]
This is a documented in the monograph April 26, 1996 (Miami) by Sublime in which the lead researcher, Bradley1, points to their first-hand experience with citizens removing items from stores in LA:
'Cause everybody in the hood has had it up to here1Source: "Mucho gusto, me llamo Bradley...". Songwriter Bradley. 1996. Caress Me Down [Recorded by Sublime]. On Sublime [CD]. MCA records.
It's getting harder, and harder, and harder each and every year
Some kids went in a store with their mother
I saw her when she came out she was gettin' some Pampers
I have a toddler. Diapers are crazy expensive. I think for items like diapers and menstrual products that are definitely not optional there should be a free government version. It doesn't have to be amazing (although I'm not adverse to that, nationalize the diaper industry) but it's unconscionable that we put people in a position where they can't afford to take care of their kids because of low wages and the insane costs of childcare and diapers and then demonize them as bad parents. It's not okay. People need to have the ability to take care of their kids.
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 12:50 PM on March 29, 2018 [34 favorites]
My kid's daycare is a chain that I won't name, but back in January they added a non-optional $10 per week charge for diapers. When I asked one of the managers if it was optional, but when she said it wasn't, she repeated one of the comments on the fliers (which I assume came from either the diaper provider, or headquarters): "you'll save money!" I got grumpy and responded out of anger "no, I can buy diapers much cheaper than this, and the cost of wipes is really low." (The real benefit is that staff don't have to deal with tracking who brought in which diapers, and who needs to bring in more diapers, which cuts into their classroom management time.)
I can buy a box of 100+ for $20-30, though it's getting a bit more expensive as kiddo gets bigger, and the number of diapers per box decreases. Which got me thinking - could I start a service at a lower cost? Maybe offer "green" diapers? And include diapers for the times that the people don't have kids in daycare, to pass the savings on to them?
I figured all that would be a simple process of looking at the number of kids in diapers in a daycare and multiply by how many diapers they would need in a week, compare versus the cost of diapers in bulk ... but it's just an idea. I then had ideas of expanding the service by offering delivery duty to parents/guardians, paid for by offering them free diapers for the cost of delivery, or have that as a benefit to some flat delivery cost per location, or something ... depending on details that I have not yet compiled.
Instead, the most I've done to date is to write this comment on the internet.
posted by filthy light thief at 12:55 PM on March 29, 2018 [1 favorite]
I can buy a box of 100+ for $20-30, though it's getting a bit more expensive as kiddo gets bigger, and the number of diapers per box decreases. Which got me thinking - could I start a service at a lower cost? Maybe offer "green" diapers? And include diapers for the times that the people don't have kids in daycare, to pass the savings on to them?
I figured all that would be a simple process of looking at the number of kids in diapers in a daycare and multiply by how many diapers they would need in a week, compare versus the cost of diapers in bulk ... but it's just an idea. I then had ideas of expanding the service by offering delivery duty to parents/guardians, paid for by offering them free diapers for the cost of delivery, or have that as a benefit to some flat delivery cost per location, or something ... depending on details that I have not yet compiled.
Instead, the most I've done to date is to write this comment on the internet.
posted by filthy light thief at 12:55 PM on March 29, 2018 [1 favorite]
In those days ( during the French And Dinosaur Wars) you could get cloth diapers at the Goodwill or Salvation Army very cheaply. I had to do several trips buying them out. I had like 40 Of then and hung onto 20 or so even after switching to disposables just in case I was too broke to get a box of diapers. That seldom happened but it was awful when it did happen.
posted by Katjusa Roquette at 12:56 PM on March 29, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by Katjusa Roquette at 12:56 PM on March 29, 2018 [1 favorite]
So that's the really mean twist to 'cloth is cheaper' - yay, poor people, it's cheaper and you still can't do it!
Boots theory all over this thread.
posted by Pope Guilty at 1:02 PM on March 29, 2018 [12 favorites]
Boots theory all over this thread.
posted by Pope Guilty at 1:02 PM on March 29, 2018 [12 favorites]
There are a number of cloth diaper systems, and they aren't interchangeable, as far as I can tell. Old-fashioned cloth diapers and a plastic cover are a rarity. Many poor people can't make the initial investment. Disposables are also an environmental issue. I think they still have cotton or paper fiber in them, but also gel, plastic cover, elastic and synthetic fabric. I just priced diapers for a baby shower (for my soon grandson!) and they're expensive. I had a coupon so I bought Huggies. 30 years ago, we did our best to always use a coupon and plan ahead, but it's a significant expense. Plenty of poor people live someplace where there's only expensive shopping options.
It would be handy to have an app to calculate cost per diaper that included possible coupons. I was in the diaper aisle for what felt like ages, reviewing cost per diaper among brands.
posted by theora55 at 1:08 PM on March 29, 2018 [2 favorites]
It would be handy to have an app to calculate cost per diaper that included possible coupons. I was in the diaper aisle for what felt like ages, reviewing cost per diaper among brands.
posted by theora55 at 1:08 PM on March 29, 2018 [2 favorites]
Slightly related:
I'm not a huge fan of Wal-Mart but in my town it's often the only place for certain items. One thing that has not gone beyond my notice is that they have a camera directly pointing at baby formula and a fairly prominent sign displayed that says, “High Security/Camera Recording in Process”.
The first time I saw it, I was like, wow, who knew that baby formula was a high risk item that was constantly being stolen. And the next few times I saw the sign, I just sighed heavily because of the implications that people are driven to such despair and need that they have to steal baby food. It's definitely fucked up that essential items like diapers, baby formula, etc. are as priced as highly as they are.
posted by Fizz at 1:08 PM on March 29, 2018 [10 favorites]
I'm not a huge fan of Wal-Mart but in my town it's often the only place for certain items. One thing that has not gone beyond my notice is that they have a camera directly pointing at baby formula and a fairly prominent sign displayed that says, “High Security/Camera Recording in Process”.
The first time I saw it, I was like, wow, who knew that baby formula was a high risk item that was constantly being stolen. And the next few times I saw the sign, I just sighed heavily because of the implications that people are driven to such despair and need that they have to steal baby food. It's definitely fucked up that essential items like diapers, baby formula, etc. are as priced as highly as they are.
posted by Fizz at 1:08 PM on March 29, 2018 [10 favorites]
**Yes, I have been here long e-damn-nough to be able to NOT call them the Tampa Bay Times.
I grew up in Bradenton, and my family got the Bradenton Herald for local news and the SPT for actual journalism. I didn't know they changed their name though.
posted by Foosnark at 1:16 PM on March 29, 2018
I grew up in Bradenton, and my family got the Bradenton Herald for local news and the SPT for actual journalism. I didn't know they changed their name though.
posted by Foosnark at 1:16 PM on March 29, 2018
It makes me want to put my shopping-fu to work, to find the most fabulous deal on the most enormous amount of diapers, and then drop them off somewhere.
Probably it's more helpful to just send another monetary donation to a local charity that helps homeless families and runs a food pantry, and which I already support.
(BTW, I got started with supporting this charity, when I discovered I can donate gift cards to them. Got any gift cards gathering dust, for stores you can't be bothered to travel to? Donate them! I then decided I really like what they do, and have kept donating.)
posted by elizilla at 1:40 PM on March 29, 2018 [1 favorite]
Probably it's more helpful to just send another monetary donation to a local charity that helps homeless families and runs a food pantry, and which I already support.
(BTW, I got started with supporting this charity, when I discovered I can donate gift cards to them. Got any gift cards gathering dust, for stores you can't be bothered to travel to? Donate them! I then decided I really like what they do, and have kept donating.)
posted by elizilla at 1:40 PM on March 29, 2018 [1 favorite]
Continuing to think about buying enormous packages of diapers. If I do this with Amazon Prime, it will throw off what their algorithms know about me. Two birds with one stone! Maybe I'll buy some formula as well...
posted by elizilla at 1:45 PM on March 29, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by elizilla at 1:45 PM on March 29, 2018 [1 favorite]
I have twins in diapers. My milk also never came in. Our monthly formula/diaper bill was higher than our mortgage in year one. We tried cloth, so many types of cloth. Pockets, all in ones, shells, all different brands, there are dozens actually DOZENS of options, and we never found the magic diaper that didn't lead to rashes or leaks or have fit issues or or or. Even if you buy used cloth is a huge investment and there is no guarantee it will work for your kid.
We are squeaking by on disposables, but only just. I love my kids but they are literally crapping our savings away.
posted by Syllables at 1:47 PM on March 29, 2018 [8 favorites]
We are squeaking by on disposables, but only just. I love my kids but they are literally crapping our savings away.
posted by Syllables at 1:47 PM on March 29, 2018 [8 favorites]
Diapers are a really tough problem. Disposables are an eco-disaster, cloth is unmanageable and labor-intensive as all get out, and going back to the old days of letting kids run around without pants and just cleaning up after them (or not, if they were outdoors) is frowned upon.
Right about the time my kid was potty trained, a fair number of people were talking about elimination communication, where, from a very early age, you watched babies intently for signs of being about to go, then put them over a bowl and made "Pssss, pssss" noises or grunts at them to teach them to associate the two. The idea being that they learn early that you squat over a container to do your business, and as soon as they are walking, they're ready to start trying it on their own.
It sounded amazing and impossible at the same time, and I was kind of glad the issue was moot for us by then so I didn't even have to seriously think about trying it.
posted by emjaybee at 2:31 PM on March 29, 2018 [1 favorite]
Right about the time my kid was potty trained, a fair number of people were talking about elimination communication, where, from a very early age, you watched babies intently for signs of being about to go, then put them over a bowl and made "Pssss, pssss" noises or grunts at them to teach them to associate the two. The idea being that they learn early that you squat over a container to do your business, and as soon as they are walking, they're ready to start trying it on their own.
It sounded amazing and impossible at the same time, and I was kind of glad the issue was moot for us by then so I didn't even have to seriously think about trying it.
posted by emjaybee at 2:31 PM on March 29, 2018 [1 favorite]
My sister is currently toilet-training her toddler son and recently asked our mother why she toilet-trained the both of us so early (we were both out of diapers by eighteen months). My mother just looked at her and said: "Because it was either buy you diapers or buy you food."
I can only imagine how much harder it is these days for struggling young families when the relative cost of housing and food has gone up so much where I am.
posted by northernish at 2:55 PM on March 29, 2018 [8 favorites]
I can only imagine how much harder it is these days for struggling young families when the relative cost of housing and food has gone up so much where I am.
posted by northernish at 2:55 PM on March 29, 2018 [8 favorites]
Sounds like two moms tired of paying too much for diapers need to buy an old German diaper factory and sell direct to customers.
posted by leotrotsky at 4:09 PM on March 29, 2018 [8 favorites]
posted by leotrotsky at 4:09 PM on March 29, 2018 [8 favorites]
Before disposables (not to mention modern cloth diapers/covers etc. — yay, velcro!) early toilet training was the way to go. The reason this was possible was that the motivation came from both sides. Mothers (and it was almost exclusively mothers in those days) were usually around to get the job done and really wanted to stop dealing with the diapers as soon as possible. And for the kids uncomfortable, baggy diapers with pins and leaky covers weren't much of an incentive to dawdle over the process.
I used to think that my mother was hallucinating when she said that back in the 50s my brother and I were using the potty by eighteen months (a diaper at night of course for a while longer), but she was, of course correct. What is the average age now, around three? That represents huge saving. But of course there are many reasons that most people can't get toilet training done so early any more: not many stay-at-home mothers, diapers that are so much nicer for the kid and so on.
posted by Quinbus Flestrin at 4:25 PM on March 29, 2018 [1 favorite]
I used to think that my mother was hallucinating when she said that back in the 50s my brother and I were using the potty by eighteen months (a diaper at night of course for a while longer), but she was, of course correct. What is the average age now, around three? That represents huge saving. But of course there are many reasons that most people can't get toilet training done so early any more: not many stay-at-home mothers, diapers that are so much nicer for the kid and so on.
posted by Quinbus Flestrin at 4:25 PM on March 29, 2018 [1 favorite]
I feel like this every time I see the new model year of cars
The problem is in this case that the newer model of diapers are actually better. If you read the article, the one dad initially got diapers at the dollar store but they irritated his baby’s skin. Cheap diapers exist, they just really suck and make for crying, uncomfortable babies.
posted by corb at 4:31 PM on March 29, 2018 [4 favorites]
The problem is in this case that the newer model of diapers are actually better. If you read the article, the one dad initially got diapers at the dollar store but they irritated his baby’s skin. Cheap diapers exist, they just really suck and make for crying, uncomfortable babies.
posted by corb at 4:31 PM on March 29, 2018 [4 favorites]
explosion: This article seems to imply that if they focused on cutting costs instead of adding features and padding profits, they could produce a diaper they could sell for half the price, but it's not good for their bottom line.
Toronto's new subway extension is.. gold plated. This may not seem relevant, but please see below..
RolandOfEld: Part of me yearns for some sort of wonderful communist-lite cloth diaper program where folks could buy diapers from another family when their kid was born and the other kids were done with them. The cost would be a fraction of what new would cost because, at least my use has shown, the prefolds and flats we have used through 2 kiddos have A LOT of life left in them. Covers (velcro or snaps) do wear out/rip in non-repariable ways eventually but still...
Second hand stores are not legally allowed to sell used car seats, no matter how perfect they appear to be. Safety safety safety you know.. Also explains part of why subways cost so damned much nowadays.
filthy light thief: I can buy a box of 100+ for $20-30, though it's getting a bit more expensive as kiddo gets bigger, and the number of diapers per box decreases. Which got me thinking - could I start a service at a lower cost? Maybe offer "green" diapers? And include diapers for the times that the people don't have kids in daycare, to pass the savings on to them?
Ya, I had ideas along this direction when I read that Amazon was so much cheaper. Two things though.. The effect of this is to drive retail out of business, which is actually really bad for those exact impoverished people who are being extorted by diaper prices. Also, the big chain drug stores and manufacturers/distributors probably have agreements that prevent smaller non-chain stores, and Joe Blow, from cutting prices in this way. Consider the people you see buying shopping cart loads of soft drinks in grocery stores when there's a sale on--those are convinience store owners trying to get a little better cut on their inventory.
I feel like society is spinning out of control, and it has NOTHING to do with the immediate political climate.
elizilla: Continuing to think about buying enormous packages of diapers. If I do this with Amazon Prime, it will throw off what their algorithms know about me. Two birds with one stone!
Perfect :)
posted by Chuckles at 4:37 PM on March 29, 2018
Toronto's new subway extension is.. gold plated. This may not seem relevant, but please see below..
RolandOfEld: Part of me yearns for some sort of wonderful communist-lite cloth diaper program where folks could buy diapers from another family when their kid was born and the other kids were done with them. The cost would be a fraction of what new would cost because, at least my use has shown, the prefolds and flats we have used through 2 kiddos have A LOT of life left in them. Covers (velcro or snaps) do wear out/rip in non-repariable ways eventually but still...
Second hand stores are not legally allowed to sell used car seats, no matter how perfect they appear to be. Safety safety safety you know.. Also explains part of why subways cost so damned much nowadays.
filthy light thief: I can buy a box of 100+ for $20-30, though it's getting a bit more expensive as kiddo gets bigger, and the number of diapers per box decreases. Which got me thinking - could I start a service at a lower cost? Maybe offer "green" diapers? And include diapers for the times that the people don't have kids in daycare, to pass the savings on to them?
Ya, I had ideas along this direction when I read that Amazon was so much cheaper. Two things though.. The effect of this is to drive retail out of business, which is actually really bad for those exact impoverished people who are being extorted by diaper prices. Also, the big chain drug stores and manufacturers/distributors probably have agreements that prevent smaller non-chain stores, and Joe Blow, from cutting prices in this way. Consider the people you see buying shopping cart loads of soft drinks in grocery stores when there's a sale on--those are convinience store owners trying to get a little better cut on their inventory.
I feel like society is spinning out of control, and it has NOTHING to do with the immediate political climate.
elizilla: Continuing to think about buying enormous packages of diapers. If I do this with Amazon Prime, it will throw off what their algorithms know about me. Two birds with one stone!
Perfect :)
posted by Chuckles at 4:37 PM on March 29, 2018
I'm not a huge fan of Wal-Mart but in my town it's often the only place for certain items. One thing that has not gone beyond my notice is that they have a camera directly pointing at baby formula and a fairly prominent sign displayed that says, “High Security/Camera Recording in Process”.
Formula is a high-theft item with a thriving resale market. There is high demand (obviously) and it's easy to sell for cash because people need to stretch their money as far as they can.
posted by Dip Flash at 5:58 PM on March 29, 2018 [3 favorites]
Formula is a high-theft item with a thriving resale market. There is high demand (obviously) and it's easy to sell for cash because people need to stretch their money as far as they can.
posted by Dip Flash at 5:58 PM on March 29, 2018 [3 favorites]
People do resell/give away their old cloth diapers within their personal networks all the time. I can't even remember who got my old stack of prefolds. (I did keep a few because they are basically the only cleaning cloth you will ever need. Even if you don't have a baby but you enjoy surfaces that are both clean and dry, this protip is for you: point your internet machine at Green Mountain Diapers, purchase 3-6 small sized prefold cotton diapers, wait anxiously for them to arrive in the mail, wash them and dry them once before using according to the enclosed instructions, and then proceed to dust, wash, clean, and soak up fluids to a standard you never before thought possible.)
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:05 PM on March 29, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:05 PM on March 29, 2018 [4 favorites]
we have a 1 year old. we use cloth, because it's cheaper for us (because we have a washing machine that can wash these things; you say it's a privilege, but... ok, whatever. why was I not shocked to be told that washing clothes is a privilege here on metafilter.)
we bought all our cloth nappies and covers used on craigslist and in a year I think we're still less than $100 all-in, and as we size up we get most of our money back re-selling them. it's not a bad deal, all in all. I'd recommend it.
that said: we use the nappies that Aldi sells for travel times and for overnight, and they are hella cheap and decent - $5 for 40 that fit a one year old, and for smaller sizes you get more for the same amount. That's very affordable, and I'm happy they sell them.
I totally get that nappies are a burden on parent(s) who are on the poverty line and that is a grind, but having kids is a grind in every respect, so if it's not this thing, it's going to be another thing.
posted by EricGjerde at 7:07 PM on March 29, 2018
we bought all our cloth nappies and covers used on craigslist and in a year I think we're still less than $100 all-in, and as we size up we get most of our money back re-selling them. it's not a bad deal, all in all. I'd recommend it.
that said: we use the nappies that Aldi sells for travel times and for overnight, and they are hella cheap and decent - $5 for 40 that fit a one year old, and for smaller sizes you get more for the same amount. That's very affordable, and I'm happy they sell them.
I totally get that nappies are a burden on parent(s) who are on the poverty line and that is a grind, but having kids is a grind in every respect, so if it's not this thing, it's going to be another thing.
posted by EricGjerde at 7:07 PM on March 29, 2018
we use cloth, because it's cheaper for us (because we have a washing machine that can wash these things; you say it's a privilege, but... ok, whatever. why was I not shocked to be told that washing clothes is a privilege here on metafilter.)
Having in-home, or at least in-building, laundry is a privilege though? In my city, in the rental bracket I was able to afford in my 20s and 30s it was uncommon for there to be on-site laundry. I couldn't afford a car either, so having a coin laundry within walking distance was a key factor in choosing an apartment. Things got tricky when my area started gentrifying and laundries started closing so they could be converted to (unaffordable to me) housing.
posted by Secret Sparrow at 7:58 PM on March 29, 2018 [17 favorites]
Having in-home, or at least in-building, laundry is a privilege though? In my city, in the rental bracket I was able to afford in my 20s and 30s it was uncommon for there to be on-site laundry. I couldn't afford a car either, so having a coin laundry within walking distance was a key factor in choosing an apartment. Things got tricky when my area started gentrifying and laundries started closing so they could be converted to (unaffordable to me) housing.
posted by Secret Sparrow at 7:58 PM on March 29, 2018 [17 favorites]
I used to think that my mother was hallucinating when she said that back in the 50s my brother and I were using the potty by eighteen months (a diaper at night of course for a while longer), but she was, of course correct. What is the average age now, around three?
There is this whole insidious "boys take longer to potty-train than girls" and "don't even think about trying to potty-train your boy before the age of three" bullshit that I swear must have been started by the marketing department of a diaper company.
I bought into it with my first, but some moms in the know clued me in to the Oh Crap Potty-Training book. I realized I'd been missing my kiddo's cues for months and I had him p-t in 4 days, at 2.5yrs, days and nights simultaneously. We never even considered pull-ups . I'm not sure I could have p-t him at 18mos, but he definitely could have done it at 2.
I p-t my 2nd right after his 2nd bday and everyone acted like I was crazy, even the damn daycare teachers (because it was less work for them to do diaper changes than watch him and send him to the bathroom every hour). Now the kids are all a year older and there's kids over three in the class whose parents will look me in the eye and say "well, we know it's going to be hard 'cause he's a boy..." while I'm tearing my hair out.
Can we question for a moment how the ability to understand one's own biological needs became gendered? It's simply not effing logical. This is some garbage that is being sold to all of us, especially those who can least afford it.
posted by vignettist at 9:46 PM on March 29, 2018 [4 favorites]
There is this whole insidious "boys take longer to potty-train than girls" and "don't even think about trying to potty-train your boy before the age of three" bullshit that I swear must have been started by the marketing department of a diaper company.
I bought into it with my first, but some moms in the know clued me in to the Oh Crap Potty-Training book. I realized I'd been missing my kiddo's cues for months and I had him p-t in 4 days, at 2.5yrs, days and nights simultaneously. We never even considered pull-ups . I'm not sure I could have p-t him at 18mos, but he definitely could have done it at 2.
I p-t my 2nd right after his 2nd bday and everyone acted like I was crazy, even the damn daycare teachers (because it was less work for them to do diaper changes than watch him and send him to the bathroom every hour). Now the kids are all a year older and there's kids over three in the class whose parents will look me in the eye and say "well, we know it's going to be hard 'cause he's a boy..." while I'm tearing my hair out.
Can we question for a moment how the ability to understand one's own biological needs became gendered? It's simply not effing logical. This is some garbage that is being sold to all of us, especially those who can least afford it.
posted by vignettist at 9:46 PM on March 29, 2018 [4 favorites]
Fifteen or so years ago my sister went to Wal-Mart in Fairlawn, OH, outside of Akron, to buy diapers only to find LeBron James, who had just purchased the lion's share to donate somewhere locally during a crisis situation that I no longer recall.
posted by waving at 5:36 AM on March 30, 2018
posted by waving at 5:36 AM on March 30, 2018
There are many pediatric urologists that disagree with early potty training as a standard for all children.
Your kids pt'd early. Good for you. Do you think there is a parent alive who is overjoyed to have to continue to change (and buy) diapers? We're just sitting around neglecting our children because we can't be fucked to potty train?
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:41 AM on March 30, 2018 [4 favorites]
Your kids pt'd early. Good for you. Do you think there is a parent alive who is overjoyed to have to continue to change (and buy) diapers? We're just sitting around neglecting our children because we can't be fucked to potty train?
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:41 AM on March 30, 2018 [4 favorites]
The first time I saw it, I was like, wow, who knew that baby formula was a high risk item that was constantly being stolen. And the next few times I saw the sign, I just sighed heavily because of the implications that people are driven to such despair and need that they have to steal baby food.
I bet most of the theft is people maximizing their black market resale margins, not people that actually need diapers for their children.
posted by COD at 6:03 AM on March 30, 2018
I bet most of the theft is people maximizing their black market resale margins, not people that actually need diapers for their children.
posted by COD at 6:03 AM on March 30, 2018
We're just sitting around neglecting our children because we can't be fucked to potty train?
I think it’s more that the economy no longer permits one stay-at-home, nonworking parent, for the majority of Americans, and that daycare does not have the ability to do that because they are caring for 20 kids, not one.
I’m sure it’s much easier to potty train if that’s the main focus you have for the day - but unfortunately that’s not possible for so, so many. I suspect the move to a later age is not driven by what children could do under ideal circumstances or a conspiracy by the diaper companies but rather pediatricians acknowledging an imperfect world.
posted by corb at 6:26 AM on March 30, 2018 [2 favorites]
I think it’s more that the economy no longer permits one stay-at-home, nonworking parent, for the majority of Americans, and that daycare does not have the ability to do that because they are caring for 20 kids, not one.
I’m sure it’s much easier to potty train if that’s the main focus you have for the day - but unfortunately that’s not possible for so, so many. I suspect the move to a later age is not driven by what children could do under ideal circumstances or a conspiracy by the diaper companies but rather pediatricians acknowledging an imperfect world.
posted by corb at 6:26 AM on March 30, 2018 [2 favorites]
I bet most of the theft is people maximizing their black market resale margins, not people that actually need diapers for their children.
Another way to say it is that it is the people who need formula/diapers who make the resale market possible, but those aren't the people going into stores and stealing the stuff, for whom this is just a way to make a quick buck.
Like many illegal transactions, this would mostly disappear if people had enough money, or if formula/diapers were treated more like a public utility rather than fancy consumer items. All Walmart can do is put up cameras, but as a society we could be doing better.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:43 AM on March 30, 2018 [3 favorites]
Another way to say it is that it is the people who need formula/diapers who make the resale market possible, but those aren't the people going into stores and stealing the stuff, for whom this is just a way to make a quick buck.
Like many illegal transactions, this would mostly disappear if people had enough money, or if formula/diapers were treated more like a public utility rather than fancy consumer items. All Walmart can do is put up cameras, but as a society we could be doing better.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:43 AM on March 30, 2018 [3 favorites]
Well, there is a medical component regarding too-early (and too-late, there's sort of a window) potty training that isn't so much about parenting realities but biological and neurological ones. The literature is a mixed bag and I think the actual current state of affairs is ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
My own choices regarding taking a slowly but surely approach to potty training were greatly informed by the fact that I was potty trained too forcefully and too early and had no end of wetting and constipation problems as a child, all the way through adolescence. My mom (who cares for my son quite a bit) was fully on board with the gradual, child-led approach we took because she openly admitted that she regretted training me so early and was glad that we were taking a different tack. In summary, kids are a land of contrasts.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:52 AM on March 30, 2018
My own choices regarding taking a slowly but surely approach to potty training were greatly informed by the fact that I was potty trained too forcefully and too early and had no end of wetting and constipation problems as a child, all the way through adolescence. My mom (who cares for my son quite a bit) was fully on board with the gradual, child-led approach we took because she openly admitted that she regretted training me so early and was glad that we were taking a different tack. In summary, kids are a land of contrasts.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:52 AM on March 30, 2018
Safety net programs are little help. Only one form of public assistance can be spent on diapers, and in Florida the average benefit hasn’t increased in more than two decades.
Important public service announcement: I don't know about every state, but in Iowa if you are on Medicaid, you can get a prescription for diapers from your doctor if your child is over a certain age (I believe it is 2 or 3) and Medicaid will then pay for your diapers. The doctor can even specify a brand. We do this all. the. time. at the disability hospital I work in. It's great. So if you or a friend are in this situation, it's worth researching or asking your doctor.
posted by Lutoslawski at 8:00 AM on March 30, 2018 [3 favorites]
Important public service announcement: I don't know about every state, but in Iowa if you are on Medicaid, you can get a prescription for diapers from your doctor if your child is over a certain age (I believe it is 2 or 3) and Medicaid will then pay for your diapers. The doctor can even specify a brand. We do this all. the. time. at the disability hospital I work in. It's great. So if you or a friend are in this situation, it's worth researching or asking your doctor.
posted by Lutoslawski at 8:00 AM on March 30, 2018 [3 favorites]
As bad as Dr. Sears can be, I really appreciated reading in one of his books the sensible point that someone's kid has to be the last one on the block who's potty-trained.
posted by The corpse in the library at 8:51 PM on March 30, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by The corpse in the library at 8:51 PM on March 30, 2018 [3 favorites]
The co-op I work at has a food drive for the Central Texas Food Bank every fall. Their #1 request for donated items is for diapers in the med-large sizes. The women's shelter also lists diapers as their most wanted donation.
posted by a humble nudibranch at 12:55 AM on March 31, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by a humble nudibranch at 12:55 AM on March 31, 2018 [1 favorite]
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(In all seriousness, that's f-ed up.)
posted by nikoniko at 12:06 PM on March 29, 2018 [5 favorites]