Diss Pair and Hurt Rendang Outcry
April 4, 2018 3:57 PM Subscribe
MasterChef contestant Zaleha Kadir Olpin was eliminated last week when her chicken rendang — a traditional, slow cooked coconut and meat dish — didn't have crispy skin. People were not pleased with the decision.
The Malaysian prime minister Najib Razak has weighed in, judge John Torode failed to reduce the heat by tweeting:
Originally used by Minangkabau people as a method of preserving meat, particularly beef, you might like to try rendang with lamb, mushrooms, or even banana blossoms.
The Malaysian prime minister Najib Razak has weighed in, judge John Torode failed to reduce the heat by tweeting:
Maybe Rendang is Indonesian !! Love this !! Brilliant how excited you are all getting .. Namaste 🙏but Gregg Wallace explains they simply meant it wasn't cooked enough.
Originally used by Minangkabau people as a method of preserving meat, particularly beef, you might like to try rendang with lamb, mushrooms, or even banana blossoms.
I can personally vouch for the beef rendang recipe linked above. The last step entails cooking the beef till the meat starts sizzling in it's own fat and the results revelatory. The dish goes from sloppy sweet stew to caramelized magic in the last 20 minutes of cooking. Genius dish!!
posted by helmutdog at 4:24 PM on April 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by helmutdog at 4:24 PM on April 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
I know I should just flag and move on but this is egregious. Next time you post mouth watering recipes I’d appreciate it if you’d at least do it on a day where I have the 8 hours spare to make them. Or at the very least find me a decent Indonesian restaurant that delivers to Newtown.
(Damn I love beef rendang, and food related controversy. Great post.)
posted by arha at 4:33 PM on April 4, 2018 [5 favorites]
(Damn I love beef rendang, and food related controversy. Great post.)
posted by arha at 4:33 PM on April 4, 2018 [5 favorites]
For Indo's in The Netherlands, Beef Rendang is a dish with the same qualities as pancakes. Every mother makes the best you ever tasted. So, if you want to have the best Rendang in the world: visit my mother.
posted by ouke at 4:34 PM on April 4, 2018 [18 favorites]
posted by ouke at 4:34 PM on April 4, 2018 [18 favorites]
Gregg Wallace explains they simply meant it wasn't cooked enough.
"It's not possible that we were wrong, so we were right and merely lost our ability to use words in a way that communicated what we actually meant."
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:36 PM on April 4, 2018 [37 favorites]
"It's not possible that we were wrong, so we were right and merely lost our ability to use words in a way that communicated what we actually meant."
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:36 PM on April 4, 2018 [37 favorites]
Personally I'd use skinless chicken for rendang. No idea if that's traditional, but to my American tastes rubbery soggy chicken skin in any sauced dish is unappealing. From any culture: I don't want chicken skin in a rendang, a Thai curry, an Ethiopian stew, or a French coq au vin.
posted by Nelson at 4:39 PM on April 4, 2018 [6 favorites]
posted by Nelson at 4:39 PM on April 4, 2018 [6 favorites]
God damn, how hard is it for some people to just fucking apologize? You were wrong, it's not the end of the world, just fucking admit it and move on. What is it that makes some people (usually men, frankly) double and triple down in displays of escalating boorishness? Now you're wrong and an asshole, great job.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 4:41 PM on April 4, 2018 [51 favorites]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 4:41 PM on April 4, 2018 [51 favorites]
I can also vouch for the No Recipes beef rendang. It's really important to let it rip for at least four hours, than to do the reduction phase at the end. (I'm tempted to experiment by doing the braising bit for 8 hours with my Anova sous vide, just so I don't have to hang around making sure the house doesn't burn down during the cook time).
I'd add curry leaves to the No Recipes version, though, if you can find em'. Needless to say: DO NOT MAKE RENDANG CRISPY, WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU. And sorry, Nelson, but you are wrong about chicken skin. Wrong, wrong wrong. Chicken skin is one of nature's greatest gifts to mankind.
Well, I'm hungry. I really wish we had more Malaysian or Indonesian restaurants in the United States.
posted by faineg at 4:42 PM on April 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
I'd add curry leaves to the No Recipes version, though, if you can find em'. Needless to say: DO NOT MAKE RENDANG CRISPY, WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU. And sorry, Nelson, but you are wrong about chicken skin. Wrong, wrong wrong. Chicken skin is one of nature's greatest gifts to mankind.
Well, I'm hungry. I really wish we had more Malaysian or Indonesian restaurants in the United States.
posted by faineg at 4:42 PM on April 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
> crispy rendang
my head hurts. I can see how it could be nice, but it's just ... not rendang enough? I would never hear the end of it if I attempted to serve crispy chicken with rendang sauce on it. I can already hear the comments about how the sauce flavor didn't reach all the way into the meat because there was no marination, etc etc.
I did like the comic linked on this reddit post, though
posted by Xere at 4:45 PM on April 4, 2018 [5 favorites]
my head hurts. I can see how it could be nice, but it's just ... not rendang enough? I would never hear the end of it if I attempted to serve crispy chicken with rendang sauce on it. I can already hear the comments about how the sauce flavor didn't reach all the way into the meat because there was no marination, etc etc.
I did like the comic linked on this reddit post, though
posted by Xere at 4:45 PM on April 4, 2018 [5 favorites]
Umm. Stewed/braised poultry skin is rubbery and gross. It is not culturally insensitive to point this out.
You can stew or braise poultry with the skin still on, the trick is to crisp first, hot and fast, and stew/braise second, and a number of cuisines worldwide do just that. Chef John does this with his French-inspired four-ingredient chicken and mushroom dish, Greg the Greggest with his Aussie take on stuffed "Cajun" turkey wings, and I've had me some amaze-balls Duck Choo Chee, slow curried duck with crisp skin, at the local Thai place.
Or, you can, O I DUN NO, take the gross fat-sack skin off the delish chix before stewing it in a pot with wonderful spices? Like you do with pretty much any curried chicken dish in popular Indian cuisine? Or even after, boiling or braising a whole chicken is a common occurrence in Anglo/American cooking, and we peel it off and chuck it, as it's awful.
If chew-chew-chew-chewing through slow-stewed bird blubberskin is a pre-req for enjoying Redang, count me out.
posted by Slap*Happy at 4:57 PM on April 4, 2018 [2 favorites]
You can stew or braise poultry with the skin still on, the trick is to crisp first, hot and fast, and stew/braise second, and a number of cuisines worldwide do just that. Chef John does this with his French-inspired four-ingredient chicken and mushroom dish, Greg the Greggest with his Aussie take on stuffed "Cajun" turkey wings, and I've had me some amaze-balls Duck Choo Chee, slow curried duck with crisp skin, at the local Thai place.
Or, you can, O I DUN NO, take the gross fat-sack skin off the delish chix before stewing it in a pot with wonderful spices? Like you do with pretty much any curried chicken dish in popular Indian cuisine? Or even after, boiling or braising a whole chicken is a common occurrence in Anglo/American cooking, and we peel it off and chuck it, as it's awful.
If chew-chew-chew-chewing through slow-stewed bird blubberskin is a pre-req for enjoying Redang, count me out.
posted by Slap*Happy at 4:57 PM on April 4, 2018 [2 favorites]
Stewed chicken skin is a double crime: first, because it's disgusting in any dish; and second, because it represents a missed opportunity to make crispy chicken skin*. That is chicken skin realizing its full potential.
*Sometimes called, to the eye-rolls of those around me, chick-arones.
posted by ZaphodB at 5:19 PM on April 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
*Sometimes called, to the eye-rolls of those around me, chick-arones.
posted by ZaphodB at 5:19 PM on April 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
I dunno if that argument really holds water, Slap. I don't know from redang, but if it's supposed to come with soft skin then that's how it's supposed to be. Just because you don't care for it doesn't mean it's wrong, or that millions of people don't enjoy it. I mean, personally I find manioc mind-numbingly bland at best and inedibly foul at worst, but there are millions of people out there chowing down on it quite happily every day. It is what it is.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 5:20 PM on April 4, 2018 [21 favorites]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 5:20 PM on April 4, 2018 [21 favorites]
I'm reminded of the recent egg-spoon thread where someone said something to the effect of "No runny yolk? That looks like a shitty fried egg to me," and then a bunch of people from other food cultures jumped in with "Mmmmm, crispy fried eggs, just like my mama used to make. Get out of town with your runny yolks!" People in different parts of the world just have different ideas about what foods are supposed to be like. They're not wrong.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 5:24 PM on April 4, 2018 [9 favorites]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 5:24 PM on April 4, 2018 [9 favorites]
I know this whole thing is mainly centered around the whole crispy vs. non-crispy issue (along with a helping of Malaysian-origin vs. Indonesia-origin on the side), but man oh man that "Namaste" tweet is not a good look for that dude. I mean, in some of the articles about this, the writers are giving Torode some significant benefit of the doubt due to his doing a 10-episode TV series in Malaysia back in 2015, but to drop a "namaste" into that tweet should seriously call into question exactly what and how much he retained from that experience.
posted by mhum at 5:34 PM on April 4, 2018 [15 favorites]
posted by mhum at 5:34 PM on April 4, 2018 [15 favorites]
I don't know from redang, but if it's supposed to come with soft skin then that's how it's supposed to be.
I'm from Rhode Island. We put white vinegar on our french fries. Not malt, industrial-grade white dispensed from a clear squeeze-bottle is correct. I could make the perfect plate of fries for a Los Angeles culinary judge, and if I douse it with the Heinz-brand white vinegar from the plastic bottle, what? He's supposed to know? Apologize for sucking his tongue back into his esophagus?
If you are trying to impress a professional London food critic - and London is not exactly a parochial backwater in terms of variety of cuisine - perhaps read the room a bit?
And, yeah, the "Namaste" tweet was fucking bullshit of the highest order. Talk about not reading the room, yeeesh. Unforgivable.
posted by Slap*Happy at 5:37 PM on April 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
I'm from Rhode Island. We put white vinegar on our french fries. Not malt, industrial-grade white dispensed from a clear squeeze-bottle is correct. I could make the perfect plate of fries for a Los Angeles culinary judge, and if I douse it with the Heinz-brand white vinegar from the plastic bottle, what? He's supposed to know? Apologize for sucking his tongue back into his esophagus?
If you are trying to impress a professional London food critic - and London is not exactly a parochial backwater in terms of variety of cuisine - perhaps read the room a bit?
And, yeah, the "Namaste" tweet was fucking bullshit of the highest order. Talk about not reading the room, yeeesh. Unforgivable.
posted by Slap*Happy at 5:37 PM on April 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
How about if you're a celebrity chef who judges a nationally-televised cooking competition and you invite a Malaysian chef to come cook on your show, you should have some conception of what their country's most iconic dishes are supposed to be like?
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 5:42 PM on April 4, 2018 [50 favorites]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 5:42 PM on April 4, 2018 [50 favorites]
Umm. Stewed/braised poultry skin is rubbery and gross.
Hmm, I think rubberiness is not considered a bad texture in Asian dishes though: squid, tofu, beef tongue, beef tripe, boba.
But you also aren't wrong that crispy skin is tasty. For example, Chinese poultry dishes feature both. E.g., Peking duck (Northern Chinese) and Hainan Chicken (Southern China/Southeast Asia)
posted by FJT at 5:56 PM on April 4, 2018 [3 favorites]
Hmm, I think rubberiness is not considered a bad texture in Asian dishes though: squid, tofu, beef tongue, beef tripe, boba.
But you also aren't wrong that crispy skin is tasty. For example, Chinese poultry dishes feature both. E.g., Peking duck (Northern Chinese) and Hainan Chicken (Southern China/Southeast Asia)
posted by FJT at 5:56 PM on April 4, 2018 [3 favorites]
London is not exactly a parochial backwater in terms of variety of cuisine
Having a bunch of restaurants doesn’t mean you give a shit about food cultural differences.
posted by Celsius1414 at 6:37 PM on April 4, 2018
Having a bunch of restaurants doesn’t mean you give a shit about food cultural differences.
posted by Celsius1414 at 6:37 PM on April 4, 2018
Stewed/braised poultry skin is rubbery and gross. It is not culturally insensitive to point this out.
It doesn’t have to be. Actually it can be melt-in-your-mouth-delicious fat. It depends on what you’re used to, and this is very cultural. Assuming your taste is universal to the world is in fact somewhat insensitive.
posted by corb at 6:45 PM on April 4, 2018 [17 favorites]
It doesn’t have to be. Actually it can be melt-in-your-mouth-delicious fat. It depends on what you’re used to, and this is very cultural. Assuming your taste is universal to the world is in fact somewhat insensitive.
posted by corb at 6:45 PM on April 4, 2018 [17 favorites]
If you are trying to impress a professional London food critic - and London is not exactly a parochial backwater in terms of variety of cuisine - perhaps read the room a bit?
Really if you're on MetaFilter trying to make an argument, as you seem to be, that Londoners have objectively better taste in food than do people in the "parochial backwater" of Malaysia, I think it may be you who is failing to read the room.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 6:47 PM on April 4, 2018 [18 favorites]
Really if you're on MetaFilter trying to make an argument, as you seem to be, that Londoners have objectively better taste in food than do people in the "parochial backwater" of Malaysia, I think it may be you who is failing to read the room.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 6:47 PM on April 4, 2018 [18 favorites]
are you going to argue that dark meat chicken is objectively super gross next
because that's the logical next step here
posted by faineg at 7:01 PM on April 4, 2018 [2 favorites]
because that's the logical next step here
posted by faineg at 7:01 PM on April 4, 2018 [2 favorites]
How about if you're a celebrity chef who judges a nationally-televised cooking competition and you invite a Malaysian chef to come cook on your show, you should have some conception of what their country's most iconic dishes are supposed to be like?
If the challenge was "make the most authentic Rendang you can" or "cook food from your cultural origin as close as possible to the way it would be served in the country of origin", then yes, the chef/judges should judge it based on that standard. But they never said that her Rendang was wrong, they said it was unpleasant to eat:
Here's a competing scenario; suppose a Bangladeshi cook made a dish of a cod and clementine curry, but in a very inauthentic way by tucking it into a vol-au-vent? Should they be eliminated because the correct Bangladeshi way of serving cod and clementine curry is absolutely not in a vol-au-vent, or should they be judged based on how appealing their dish as presented was? Because that's part of how Nadiya won her season of Bakeoff, and I think the judges were correct to see it as a tasty dish, rather than judging it as a failure to properly execute one of her home country's dishes.
posted by Homeboy Trouble at 7:02 PM on April 4, 2018
If the challenge was "make the most authentic Rendang you can" or "cook food from your cultural origin as close as possible to the way it would be served in the country of origin", then yes, the chef/judges should judge it based on that standard. But they never said that her Rendang was wrong, they said it was unpleasant to eat:
However, the chicken skin isn’t crispy, it can’t be eaten, but all the sauce is on the skin I can’t eat. I think the chicken rendang on the side is a mistake. It hasn’t had enough time to cook to become lovely and soft and fall apart. Instead, the chicken itself is just tough and not really flavoursome.If the challenge was to cook an appealing dish "inspired by a personal or family favourite" -- which it was -- then authenticity is not an absolute criteria; someone who made a peanut butter sandwich precisely as they grew up with or an exact replica of their favourite Big Mac should not be able to claim that they should win due to their fidelity.
Here's a competing scenario; suppose a Bangladeshi cook made a dish of a cod and clementine curry, but in a very inauthentic way by tucking it into a vol-au-vent? Should they be eliminated because the correct Bangladeshi way of serving cod and clementine curry is absolutely not in a vol-au-vent, or should they be judged based on how appealing their dish as presented was? Because that's part of how Nadiya won her season of Bakeoff, and I think the judges were correct to see it as a tasty dish, rather than judging it as a failure to properly execute one of her home country's dishes.
posted by Homeboy Trouble at 7:02 PM on April 4, 2018
Really if you're on MetaFilter trying to make an argument, as you seem to be, that Londoners have objectively better taste in food than do people in the "parochial backwater" of Malaysia, I think it may be you who is failing to read the room.
To be fair, he wasn't bringing Malaysia into it; he was saying that London isn't a parochial backwater versus, say, Loughborough, and because of that, the critic should be knowledgeable and worldly about food. In this case, I disagree, but there you have it.
posted by Special Agent Dale Cooper at 7:04 PM on April 4, 2018 [4 favorites]
To be fair, he wasn't bringing Malaysia into it; he was saying that London isn't a parochial backwater versus, say, Loughborough, and because of that, the critic should be knowledgeable and worldly about food. In this case, I disagree, but there you have it.
posted by Special Agent Dale Cooper at 7:04 PM on April 4, 2018 [4 favorites]
Yeah, that wasn't my best comment. Sorry Slap, I was out of order.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 7:07 PM on April 4, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 7:07 PM on April 4, 2018 [2 favorites]
Take the skin off. Sear it separately. Render until it is crispy under a weight. Keep the fat from this to cook the veggies.
Done.
posted by jeff-o-matic at 7:12 PM on April 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
Done.
posted by jeff-o-matic at 7:12 PM on April 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
"However, the chicken skin isn’t crispy, it can’t be eaten"
Authenticity aside, this is a weirdly narrow critique of chicken. There are so many different ways for chicken to be tasty.
posted by airmail at 7:17 PM on April 4, 2018 [5 favorites]
Authenticity aside, this is a weirdly narrow critique of chicken. There are so many different ways for chicken to be tasty.
posted by airmail at 7:17 PM on April 4, 2018 [5 favorites]
If the challenge was to cook an appealing dish "inspired by a personal or family favourite" -- which it was -- then authenticity is not an absolute criteria; someone who made a peanut butter sandwich precisely as they grew up with or an exact replica of their favourite Big Mac should not be able to claim that they should win due to their fidelity.
Let's say someone on a cooking show made sushi that tasted exactly the way they grew up with. It might be terrible for a variety of reasons, but it would still be ridiculous to suggest they should've cooked the fish.
posted by airmail at 7:32 PM on April 4, 2018 [6 favorites]
Let's say someone on a cooking show made sushi that tasted exactly the way they grew up with. It might be terrible for a variety of reasons, but it would still be ridiculous to suggest they should've cooked the fish.
posted by airmail at 7:32 PM on April 4, 2018 [6 favorites]
There are a lot of cuisines that braise or stew poultry with the skin on, intended for it to be eaten. Most of them crisp the skin first. Almost all of them, to the point where techniques are highly refined and regional. If you are used to white vinegar on french fries blubbery, chewy skin that no consideration has been given to at all apart from dumping it into the pot, and don't recognize that most other cuisines find it unappetizing, well. Someone is being culturally insensitive, indeed.
Maybe a "You will note the skin is like a rubber bed-sheet, but it has taken the flavors and we like the consistency back home, please enjoy in the spirit of authenticity!" would have helped.
Nope. That wasn't on offer. Judge was supposed to be Redang-master-extraordinaire, even tho beef redang, by its nature without the skin issue, is more common abroad.
posted by Slap*Happy at 7:35 PM on April 4, 2018 [3 favorites]
Maybe a "You will note the skin is like a rubber bed-sheet, but it has taken the flavors and we like the consistency back home, please enjoy in the spirit of authenticity!" would have helped.
Nope. That wasn't on offer. Judge was supposed to be Redang-master-extraordinaire, even tho beef redang, by its nature without the skin issue, is more common abroad.
posted by Slap*Happy at 7:35 PM on April 4, 2018 [3 favorites]
Rey is the best at making Ren Dang.
I'll show myself out.
posted by srboisvert at 7:36 PM on April 4, 2018 [3 favorites]
I'll show myself out.
posted by srboisvert at 7:36 PM on April 4, 2018 [3 favorites]
Ok... So I've not watched the episode yet (not sure when it will be showing over here), but based on the photograph of the dish I suspect the judges were correct in their general analysis. The rendang (sauce) doesn't look dark enough, which means it wasn't cooked long enough for everything to meld and caramelise. The chicken itself also doesn't look like it was stewed long enough. Notice the end of the leg hasn't broken down; normally if you stew/braise chicken, skin will shrink and the tendons in the leg will break up, exposing the bone. So if I were to look at that photo and imagine what the rendang tasted like, I'd say the chicken would be tough and a bit rubbery, the sauce wouldn't be rich enough (and oily enough), and the flavour wouldn't have entered the chicken meat.
And really, given the usual MasterChef format, I wouldn't be surprised, because usually they only have 1-2 hours to cook. If you subtract off the time it takes to prep and pre-fry the rempah, there's barely enough time to get the chicken cooked to the level it should be. Unless she was using a pressure cooker of course. Rendang is one of those things people take the entire day to cook: time is absolutely a critical ingredient.
The "crispy" line was probably the reason for the whole uproar, and it was the wrong word to use. That being said, a lot of chicken rendang I get here from the food stalls actually make it from leftover deep fried chicken, so the skin is actually a little crispy (but mostly soggy from sitting in the sauce, which might sound disgusting but is actually quite tasty). I'm sure that isn't authentic though... let's not add Singapore to the Indo/Malaysia rendang war that already seems to be taking place.
But, if the skin was rubbery, yeah that's not good eats. However there are many other ways of preparing chicken skin to be delicious that doesn't require it to be crispy: as some people have mentioned, Hainanese chicken rice, and good chicken rendang has skin that is soft and melting.
As for Najib... He has a tricky election coming up so I'd imagine he'd jump at any opportunity to put himself in a popular position.
Ok, enough overthinking a plate of rendang. I shall leave you with this:
Last year, SCDF attended to 402 fires caused by unattended cooking.
Don’t leave your cooking unattended.
#CrispyRendang
posted by destrius at 7:37 PM on April 4, 2018 [11 favorites]
And really, given the usual MasterChef format, I wouldn't be surprised, because usually they only have 1-2 hours to cook. If you subtract off the time it takes to prep and pre-fry the rempah, there's barely enough time to get the chicken cooked to the level it should be. Unless she was using a pressure cooker of course. Rendang is one of those things people take the entire day to cook: time is absolutely a critical ingredient.
The "crispy" line was probably the reason for the whole uproar, and it was the wrong word to use. That being said, a lot of chicken rendang I get here from the food stalls actually make it from leftover deep fried chicken, so the skin is actually a little crispy (but mostly soggy from sitting in the sauce, which might sound disgusting but is actually quite tasty). I'm sure that isn't authentic though... let's not add Singapore to the Indo/Malaysia rendang war that already seems to be taking place.
But, if the skin was rubbery, yeah that's not good eats. However there are many other ways of preparing chicken skin to be delicious that doesn't require it to be crispy: as some people have mentioned, Hainanese chicken rice, and good chicken rendang has skin that is soft and melting.
As for Najib... He has a tricky election coming up so I'd imagine he'd jump at any opportunity to put himself in a popular position.
Ok, enough overthinking a plate of rendang. I shall leave you with this:
Last year, SCDF attended to 402 fires caused by unattended cooking.
Don’t leave your cooking unattended.
#CrispyRendang
posted by destrius at 7:37 PM on April 4, 2018 [11 favorites]
i haven't read the comments yet but i'm over here lmao tht this made it into the blue. i guess this counts as gastrodiplomacy too
posted by cendawanita at 7:45 PM on April 4, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by cendawanita at 7:45 PM on April 4, 2018 [3 favorites]
are you going to argue that dark meat chicken is objectively super gross next
The worst thing about the US War Against Fat over the last several decades is that it's impossible to get a good grilled chicken sandwich with dark meat ANYWHERE. And when I ask "dark meat only" I tend to get confused looks because they have a pile of "white meat only" already set aside.
posted by tclark at 7:46 PM on April 4, 2018 [6 favorites]
The worst thing about the US War Against Fat over the last several decades is that it's impossible to get a good grilled chicken sandwich with dark meat ANYWHERE. And when I ask "dark meat only" I tend to get confused looks because they have a pile of "white meat only" already set aside.
posted by tclark at 7:46 PM on April 4, 2018 [6 favorites]
Plus, the only good Chicken McNuggets were the dark meat ones, and they're long, long gone.
posted by tclark at 7:47 PM on April 4, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by tclark at 7:47 PM on April 4, 2018 [4 favorites]
I've noticed even at the level of the US grocery stores that I've seen, the raw chicken breasts are more expensive than the raw chicken thighs (all else being equal as far as provenance, bone inclusion, etc.). Is there a reason for this beyond local taste?
posted by inconstant at 7:48 PM on April 4, 2018
posted by inconstant at 7:48 PM on April 4, 2018
Demand is much higher.
posted by tclark at 7:55 PM on April 4, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by tclark at 7:55 PM on April 4, 2018 [3 favorites]
It doesn't matter if a lot of other cuisines cook chicken a different way. This one doesn't. It would have been perfectly reasonable to say "I guess I don't like chicken rendang very much", but it's clear they don't want to say that because they want to seem worldly and sophisticated, and it doesn't sound sophisticated to say that a well-cooked chicken rendang was never going to be a thing they liked. It would have been honest, and I would have credited them with that. But he clearly did not MEAN to say that didn't like chicken rendang. He intended to and did actually say that the way it was made was wrong, to make himself look better, and he deserves to get fallout for that.
I don't know if I'd like it, either! But I don't judge cooking competitions. If you insist that you cannot eat chicken skin any other way than crispy and you are judging a cooking competition with international competitors, I feel like that's a thing that's on you to communicate up front. He needs to own how his own tastes influence this and that there is not some kind of basic expectation that all chicken skin everywhere will be cooked the same way he likes it.
posted by Sequence at 7:57 PM on April 4, 2018 [3 favorites]
I don't know if I'd like it, either! But I don't judge cooking competitions. If you insist that you cannot eat chicken skin any other way than crispy and you are judging a cooking competition with international competitors, I feel like that's a thing that's on you to communicate up front. He needs to own how his own tastes influence this and that there is not some kind of basic expectation that all chicken skin everywhere will be cooked the same way he likes it.
posted by Sequence at 7:57 PM on April 4, 2018 [3 favorites]
--now tht i've caught up--
hey, it helps me save money because Americans and Westerners in general want to have all that flavourless breast meat to themselves, have at it. I'll just be at the checkout with my bag of chicken thighs and wings.
i agree the most with destrius on the particularities of the case, i personally don't think much of the look of her rendang (but ehh, you're in Britain, it's hard enough to get the right kind or amount of ingredients) but it's the judges' comments that really took the cake. opining that the only way to have chicken skin is to have it crispy is just being parochial, sorry to say. the attempt to explain away the word choice was also poor. if he really did mean the flavour wasn't completely infused yet and the fat hasn't yet quite rendered, then he would've said so, but he sounded like a fussy white man who wanted his spag bol the way he's learnt it on Jamie Oliver. as it is, not only he wanted crispy, but fussing about the sauce not being on the side? that's some extra gwailo shit. Naturally this must be why KFC Singapore actually have Rendang Chicken on their menu (with yes, crispy fried chicken; lmao that looks suspect but prlly good when the mood hits you)
And honestly John Torode has been committing crimes against Malaysian cuisine that I still know old aunties with vendetta every time his name is mentioned. Like, I want my taxpayer money back, since that show he did do in Malaysia was funded by the MATRADE, which is under the ministry of international trade. What is the point of getting him around the whole of the country, for him to come back to the studio and come up with this nonsense?
(of course you can use the food processor to mince the wet spices, but NOT ALL OF THEM TOGETHER and certainly you don't saute them all at the same time! what is it about non-cordon bleu cuisines and their techniques that western chefs think they can run roughshod over? Anyway, that's not rendang he made. It's basically duck in cream sauce, with coconut milk instead of dairy)
posted by cendawanita at 8:01 PM on April 4, 2018 [14 favorites]
hey, it helps me save money because Americans and Westerners in general want to have all that flavourless breast meat to themselves, have at it. I'll just be at the checkout with my bag of chicken thighs and wings.
i agree the most with destrius on the particularities of the case, i personally don't think much of the look of her rendang (but ehh, you're in Britain, it's hard enough to get the right kind or amount of ingredients) but it's the judges' comments that really took the cake. opining that the only way to have chicken skin is to have it crispy is just being parochial, sorry to say. the attempt to explain away the word choice was also poor. if he really did mean the flavour wasn't completely infused yet and the fat hasn't yet quite rendered, then he would've said so, but he sounded like a fussy white man who wanted his spag bol the way he's learnt it on Jamie Oliver. as it is, not only he wanted crispy, but fussing about the sauce not being on the side? that's some extra gwailo shit. Naturally this must be why KFC Singapore actually have Rendang Chicken on their menu (with yes, crispy fried chicken; lmao that looks suspect but prlly good when the mood hits you)
And honestly John Torode has been committing crimes against Malaysian cuisine that I still know old aunties with vendetta every time his name is mentioned. Like, I want my taxpayer money back, since that show he did do in Malaysia was funded by the MATRADE, which is under the ministry of international trade. What is the point of getting him around the whole of the country, for him to come back to the studio and come up with this nonsense?
(of course you can use the food processor to mince the wet spices, but NOT ALL OF THEM TOGETHER and certainly you don't saute them all at the same time! what is it about non-cordon bleu cuisines and their techniques that western chefs think they can run roughshod over? Anyway, that's not rendang he made. It's basically duck in cream sauce, with coconut milk instead of dairy)
posted by cendawanita at 8:01 PM on April 4, 2018 [14 favorites]
and you wanna know what's the other part of the dumbfuck tweet that Torode has now deleted? Malaysian (and Singaporean) Indians are mostly of Tamilian heritage. They certainly don't even use Namaste, but I guess they don't teach Vannakam at your London yoga class.
posted by cendawanita at 8:10 PM on April 4, 2018 [12 favorites]
posted by cendawanita at 8:10 PM on April 4, 2018 [12 favorites]
opining that the only way to have chicken skin is to have it crispy is just being parochial, sorry to say.
This! I've had chicken skin all kinds of ways, and mostly it's always good. Crispy is nice, but so is meltingly braised and all the options in between.
Now, it may be that the dish she made actually wasn't very good on its own merits, and if so, she deserves the bad marks, but one of the things we expect from a judge is accurate descriptions of why something does or does not meet the criteria. The description in this case was woefully bad, either lazy, uninformed, or just wrong.
posted by Dip Flash at 8:23 PM on April 4, 2018 [3 favorites]
This! I've had chicken skin all kinds of ways, and mostly it's always good. Crispy is nice, but so is meltingly braised and all the options in between.
Now, it may be that the dish she made actually wasn't very good on its own merits, and if so, she deserves the bad marks, but one of the things we expect from a judge is accurate descriptions of why something does or does not meet the criteria. The description in this case was woefully bad, either lazy, uninformed, or just wrong.
posted by Dip Flash at 8:23 PM on April 4, 2018 [3 favorites]
destrius: let's not add Singapore to the Indo/Malaysia rendang war
no, it's fine! the 4 nations have united now. I've been living with memes abt RendangGate in the last 3 days, but most of the hilarious ones are in Manglish or Malay or Indonesian. ^^; (naturally!)
Ok, have one appropriate for the upcoming Malaysian general election: Undilah Parti Rendang (Vote Rendang Party - it unites the people)
posted by cendawanita at 8:27 PM on April 4, 2018 [5 favorites]
no, it's fine! the 4 nations have united now. I've been living with memes abt RendangGate in the last 3 days, but most of the hilarious ones are in Manglish or Malay or Indonesian. ^^; (naturally!)
Ok, have one appropriate for the upcoming Malaysian general election: Undilah Parti Rendang (Vote Rendang Party - it unites the people)
posted by cendawanita at 8:27 PM on April 4, 2018 [5 favorites]
Thanks Cendawanita - I saw that unfortunate looking duck rendang and did a quick Google search for Malaysian recipes, which led me to this excellent-looking Teochew style braised duck. Maybe we could do a "good Malaysian recipes" thread sometime, as a counterpoint to all this provincial white-man-who-hates-flavor nonsense.
Regarding white meat and dark meat chicken: I just found this fascinating-looking podcast from CBC on how white meat came to dominate the North American poultry market.
Our bizarre American (and let's be honest, I mean white American here) obsession with cardboard-tasting chicken has an international impact. The US is dumping dark meat poultry into the African market, hurting Africa's home-grown poultry industry.
posted by faineg at 8:31 PM on April 4, 2018 [6 favorites]
Regarding white meat and dark meat chicken: I just found this fascinating-looking podcast from CBC on how white meat came to dominate the North American poultry market.
Our bizarre American (and let's be honest, I mean white American here) obsession with cardboard-tasting chicken has an international impact. The US is dumping dark meat poultry into the African market, hurting Africa's home-grown poultry industry.
posted by faineg at 8:31 PM on April 4, 2018 [6 favorites]
Umm. Stewed/braised poultry skin is rubbery and gross. It is not culturally insensitive to point this out.
I tend to agree, but that's another issue. The issue is the proper, correct, and traditional way to make a certain dish. Rendang is made with non-crispy skin, in the same way that hamburgers are served with bread buns, and not raw eggs. In the same way that spaghetti is boiled in water, not fried in oil. You could make those changes, but in that case the change would be the point. You could make crispy skin Rendang, but that "fusion" or whatever you'd call it would be the point: a new take on a traditional dish.
These judges just didn't know what the fuck Rendang was, that's all. Not the end of the world, for any party. But that's what it, and this FPP, is about.
posted by zardoz at 9:11 PM on April 4, 2018 [8 favorites]
I tend to agree, but that's another issue. The issue is the proper, correct, and traditional way to make a certain dish. Rendang is made with non-crispy skin, in the same way that hamburgers are served with bread buns, and not raw eggs. In the same way that spaghetti is boiled in water, not fried in oil. You could make those changes, but in that case the change would be the point. You could make crispy skin Rendang, but that "fusion" or whatever you'd call it would be the point: a new take on a traditional dish.
These judges just didn't know what the fuck Rendang was, that's all. Not the end of the world, for any party. But that's what it, and this FPP, is about.
posted by zardoz at 9:11 PM on April 4, 2018 [8 favorites]
Umm. Stewed/braised poultry skin is rubbery and gross. It is not culturally insensitive to point this out.
Omg... I love my rubbery stewed chicken skin, especially in curry. I had no idea it was gross to some people. But I guess it's like what Cendawanita said - Asians in Western countries benefit from cheap chicken wings and drumsticks because the locals prefer skinless lean breast meat or other boneless cuts.
I used to buy a kilo of chicken wings at a time and one day the lady at the deli said "I hope I am not offending but... I'm curious what do you Asian people do with the chicken wings?" I didn't quite know what to answer, I said just "make into curry or stews of course!"
... if the "majority" of people find stewed chicken to be gross, that kind of explains her reaction...
... more and more revelations... if people think stewed poultry skin is revolting then they would be horrified at dim sum style chicken feet... literally the entire point of eating it is to enjoy the stewed chicken skin (there's virtually no meat on the chicken feet, it's all skin).
posted by xdvesper at 11:57 PM on April 4, 2018 [12 favorites]
Omg... I love my rubbery stewed chicken skin, especially in curry. I had no idea it was gross to some people. But I guess it's like what Cendawanita said - Asians in Western countries benefit from cheap chicken wings and drumsticks because the locals prefer skinless lean breast meat or other boneless cuts.
I used to buy a kilo of chicken wings at a time and one day the lady at the deli said "I hope I am not offending but... I'm curious what do you Asian people do with the chicken wings?" I didn't quite know what to answer, I said just "make into curry or stews of course!"
... if the "majority" of people find stewed chicken to be gross, that kind of explains her reaction...
... more and more revelations... if people think stewed poultry skin is revolting then they would be horrified at dim sum style chicken feet... literally the entire point of eating it is to enjoy the stewed chicken skin (there's virtually no meat on the chicken feet, it's all skin).
posted by xdvesper at 11:57 PM on April 4, 2018 [12 favorites]
faineg: Maybe we could do a "good Malaysian recipes" thread sometime
to be honest, that just sounds like an open call for war lmao.
As it is right now on Indonesian internet, people are being salty at Javanese* people making a big deal about it, and showing off their old recipes about it, when the dish is of Minang origin (the word is Minang for slow cooking or stew <-- bad translation)
*being the main polity of the island where Jakarta ie the capital is located
posted by cendawanita at 12:31 AM on April 5, 2018 [1 favorite]
to be honest, that just sounds like an open call for war lmao.
As it is right now on Indonesian internet, people are being salty at Javanese* people making a big deal about it, and showing off their old recipes about it, when the dish is of Minang origin (the word is Minang for slow cooking or stew <-- bad translation)
*being the main polity of the island where Jakarta ie the capital is located
posted by cendawanita at 12:31 AM on April 5, 2018 [1 favorite]
I'm with the "read the room" posts here. You are on a cooking show where the only way to win is to impress the judges. They have all the power, that's how the game is played. Do you want to win? Figure out what the judges like and cater to it. I love raw red onions in things but I understand there's a judge on Chopped that hates them. Should I serve them to him to make a point and get mad that I don't win?
posted by thedaniel at 12:38 AM on April 5, 2018
posted by thedaniel at 12:38 AM on April 5, 2018
Read this out loud and said, "WTF, rendang isn't crispy."
My mother's family is from Indonesia/Malaysia/Singapore so there are plenty of Opinions about How Food is Properly Prepared. I personally do not like flabby chicken skin, so I avoid it, but I too am rolling my eyes at the judge who pretended he knew all about chicken rendang, then when his mistake was pointed out, doubled down and insisted he'd meant something different all along. Lord, give me the unearned confidence of a mediocre white man.
Ah, this whole thread is making me homesick for my granny's (and my mom's) beef rendang.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 12:57 AM on April 5, 2018 [8 favorites]
My mother's family is from Indonesia/Malaysia/Singapore so there are plenty of Opinions about How Food is Properly Prepared. I personally do not like flabby chicken skin, so I avoid it, but I too am rolling my eyes at the judge who pretended he knew all about chicken rendang, then when his mistake was pointed out, doubled down and insisted he'd meant something different all along. Lord, give me the unearned confidence of a mediocre white man.
Ah, this whole thread is making me homesick for my granny's (and my mom's) beef rendang.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 12:57 AM on April 5, 2018 [8 favorites]
Omg... I love my rubbery stewed chicken skin, especially in curry.
The rubbery chicken skin I'm thinking of here is the kind that's nearly impossible to cut or chew and is generally plain disgusting. That might be what Slap*Happy meant. Properly cooked chicken skin shouldn't be that way, whether you're stewing, braising, boiling or steaming it. Nevertheless I imagine there are people put off by the gelatinatuous texture of e.g. steamed chicken feet (aka phoenix claws).
posted by destrius at 1:36 AM on April 5, 2018
The rubbery chicken skin I'm thinking of here is the kind that's nearly impossible to cut or chew and is generally plain disgusting. That might be what Slap*Happy meant. Properly cooked chicken skin shouldn't be that way, whether you're stewing, braising, boiling or steaming it. Nevertheless I imagine there are people put off by the gelatinatuous texture of e.g. steamed chicken feet (aka phoenix claws).
posted by destrius at 1:36 AM on April 5, 2018
I've been watching MasterChef for years now and I feel like they have made some progress in being a bit more open about non-Western cuisine. It used to be that you'd just see plate after plate of guinea fowl/venison/chicken Ballentine with some root vegetable 5 ways and a glistening sauce, and usually cooked by a white guy.
There is still plenty of that going on, but it seems like this year's contestants are one of the most diverse set I've seen so far. Off the top of my head, in addition to Malaysian, the semi-finalist group cuisine 'specialities' included 2 Indian, Thai, and Portuguese (ok that's still kind of Western but it's not French or Italian, which usually dominated).
I also noticed that they dropped a technical mystery dish test, where John would create some random dish and the contestants are just given a box of ingredients (which included misdirection) and the contestants had to recreate it. I thought that this seemed kind of unfair because John's portfolio of cuisine is decidedly western and if the contestant had a different background they were pretty screwed. Even if they were a great cook, if their background was Thai and they weren't familiar with how to cook a pigeon, that was just asking for an overcooked pigeon and you can't say that's their fault.
These days they've replaced that with the Market Challenge, which is just a big storeroom with a variety of ingredients and a huge range of spices, which tests the contestant's invention skill and reaction to pressure. So now they can stick to what they know how to cook, which I think is much fairer and interesting to me as a viewer because of the variety it produces.
At the end of the day though, it's a game and Gregg and John's palates are the judges. If you watch the show enough you know Gregg likes enough sugar to melt your teeth and you need to add more heat than you think to make them happy about a curry. It's not necessarily about "technically correct" cuisine, it's more about "what tastes good to Gregg and John". So if I was a future contestant, I take this event as a lesson to avoid stewed chicken of any type because it sounds like they like crispy skin.
posted by like_neon at 2:52 AM on April 5, 2018 [1 favorite]
There is still plenty of that going on, but it seems like this year's contestants are one of the most diverse set I've seen so far. Off the top of my head, in addition to Malaysian, the semi-finalist group cuisine 'specialities' included 2 Indian, Thai, and Portuguese (ok that's still kind of Western but it's not French or Italian, which usually dominated).
I also noticed that they dropped a technical mystery dish test, where John would create some random dish and the contestants are just given a box of ingredients (which included misdirection) and the contestants had to recreate it. I thought that this seemed kind of unfair because John's portfolio of cuisine is decidedly western and if the contestant had a different background they were pretty screwed. Even if they were a great cook, if their background was Thai and they weren't familiar with how to cook a pigeon, that was just asking for an overcooked pigeon and you can't say that's their fault.
These days they've replaced that with the Market Challenge, which is just a big storeroom with a variety of ingredients and a huge range of spices, which tests the contestant's invention skill and reaction to pressure. So now they can stick to what they know how to cook, which I think is much fairer and interesting to me as a viewer because of the variety it produces.
At the end of the day though, it's a game and Gregg and John's palates are the judges. If you watch the show enough you know Gregg likes enough sugar to melt your teeth and you need to add more heat than you think to make them happy about a curry. It's not necessarily about "technically correct" cuisine, it's more about "what tastes good to Gregg and John". So if I was a future contestant, I take this event as a lesson to avoid stewed chicken of any type because it sounds like they like crispy skin.
posted by like_neon at 2:52 AM on April 5, 2018 [1 favorite]
Honestly until that execrable tweet I thought it was probably a reasonable if poorly worded assessment, though I like the texture of curried chicken skin, especially with the bit of fat on a thigh or wing flat. Mostly I'm just using this all as an excuse to post recipes.
posted by lucidium at 3:13 AM on April 5, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by lucidium at 3:13 AM on April 5, 2018 [1 favorite]
Judge 1: "I like your rendang flavor, that's like a coconut sweetness. However, the chicken skin isn't crispy. But all the sauce is around the skin I can't eat." Judge 2: "I think the chicken rendang on the side is a mistake."
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
i wonder if the judge eat crispy chicken soup before.
—YouTube comment
Maybe technically ignorant and culturally racist judges should not be judges.
posted by polymodus at 3:32 AM on April 5, 2018 [3 favorites]
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
i wonder if the judge eat crispy chicken soup before.
—YouTube comment
Maybe technically ignorant and culturally racist judges should not be judges.
posted by polymodus at 3:32 AM on April 5, 2018 [3 favorites]
I don't have a recipe because I can't remember my mum's off the top of my head and hers is pretty much one of the all-time greats but her biggest tip for chicken rendang (and this is for the wet rendang we're all talking about, not the drier rendang tok) is use free-range chicken. It doesn't need to be organic just raised to roam free like in the village (ayam kampung if you speak Malay). If not, a retired farm chicken lol (ayam pencen) ie the one that's finally slaughtered after being done with egg duty. You basically need a little bit of toughness because yeah if the meat is soft and falling off the bone it's actually overdone.
But! If all you can have is farmed chicken, it's okay. Just keep cooking till the chicken's done to your liking, and remove it and continue cooking down the gravy.
The other tip will work for practically any Malay/Indonesian cooking - the concept of 'pecah minyak' or breaking the oil. This is when you've sauteed your wet spices (in stages!!) till fragrant, and added the dry spice powders. Lightly stir every so often, but you know when the spice is cooked through when pockets of reddish oil starts appearing on the surface of the cooking paste.
Those are the two biggest tips from my family. Now go forth and cook.
posted by cendawanita at 4:06 AM on April 5, 2018 [8 favorites]
But! If all you can have is farmed chicken, it's okay. Just keep cooking till the chicken's done to your liking, and remove it and continue cooking down the gravy.
The other tip will work for practically any Malay/Indonesian cooking - the concept of 'pecah minyak' or breaking the oil. This is when you've sauteed your wet spices (in stages!!) till fragrant, and added the dry spice powders. Lightly stir every so often, but you know when the spice is cooked through when pockets of reddish oil starts appearing on the surface of the cooking paste.
Those are the two biggest tips from my family. Now go forth and cook.
posted by cendawanita at 4:06 AM on April 5, 2018 [8 favorites]
Mr. Moonlight and I saw this episode and we were just as confused -- my husband said 'Maybe they just don't want two (South) Asian cooks on the show.'
Also: I'm still annoyed at them for kicking the guy from Newcastle out.
posted by Ms. Moonlight at 4:14 AM on April 5, 2018
Also: I'm still annoyed at them for kicking the guy from Newcastle out.
posted by Ms. Moonlight at 4:14 AM on April 5, 2018
This is a wonderful post, thank you. Now I want to know more about Malaysian food, and I support a post with more recipes and other stuff if someone would do it.
Also, I think boneless, skinless chicken breasts are gross and only buy them when there is absolutely nothing else at the store (= almost never).
posted by mumimor at 5:04 AM on April 5, 2018
Also, I think boneless, skinless chicken breasts are gross and only buy them when there is absolutely nothing else at the store (= almost never).
posted by mumimor at 5:04 AM on April 5, 2018
The US is dumping dark meat poultry into the African market, hurting Africa's home-grown poultry industry.
JFC. I usually just buy whole chickens, but I do not understand the obsession with chicken breast. Glad I had one of those grandmothers who ate a lot of organ meats.
posted by aspersioncast at 5:34 AM on April 5, 2018 [1 favorite]
JFC. I usually just buy whole chickens, but I do not understand the obsession with chicken breast. Glad I had one of those grandmothers who ate a lot of organ meats.
posted by aspersioncast at 5:34 AM on April 5, 2018 [1 favorite]
but I do not understand the obsession with chicken breast.
I think a lot of white Americans are weird about bones for some reason? I mean, I’m fine with it because it makes thighs, legs, and wings dirt fucking cheap, but I do find it super weird that the most flavorless part of the chicken is the one most desired.
posted by corb at 5:40 AM on April 5, 2018
I think a lot of white Americans are weird about bones for some reason? I mean, I’m fine with it because it makes thighs, legs, and wings dirt fucking cheap, but I do find it super weird that the most flavorless part of the chicken is the one most desired.
posted by corb at 5:40 AM on April 5, 2018
I don't understand the hate for breast. All the bits of a chicken can be good if it's cooked right. Breast, thigh, wings, skin, pope's nose, oyster, I like it all. (But oyster is the best bit.)
posted by like_neon at 5:48 AM on April 5, 2018
posted by like_neon at 5:48 AM on April 5, 2018
I don't understand the hate for breast. All the bits of a chicken can be good if it's cooked right. Breast, thigh, wings, skin, pope's nose, oyster, I like it all. (But oyster is the best bit.)
Well, obviously, it's the boneless, skinless part I don't like. You end up with only texture. I usually buy whole chickens because they are cheaper and better, but if for some reason I can't handle a whole bird, thighs are a more flavorful deal.
posted by mumimor at 5:52 AM on April 5, 2018 [1 favorite]
Well, obviously, it's the boneless, skinless part I don't like. You end up with only texture. I usually buy whole chickens because they are cheaper and better, but if for some reason I can't handle a whole bird, thighs are a more flavorful deal.
posted by mumimor at 5:52 AM on April 5, 2018 [1 favorite]
One day if I can figure out a good angle for a food post, maybe, but in the meantime, there's a yt food blogger couple from NZ I do subscribe to, and they spent months in Malaysia last year, so their Malaysia videos are really extensive and make good introduction to the food: Chasing A Plate. There's also a snowball effect - because they take care to do research for their videos, locals are more than happy to invite them to their homes etc, so there's also a few videos of home cooking in regions outside KL.
posted by cendawanita at 6:13 AM on April 5, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by cendawanita at 6:13 AM on April 5, 2018 [3 favorites]
I don't understand the hate for breast.
In my case it's not hate for breast (again, I generally buy whole cleaned chickens), it's the idea that breast *on its own* is--to me--dry and flavorless.
Breast cooked down with the rest of the bird I find as delightful as, well, the rest. I use the whole damn thing and make stock with the carcass.
posted by aspersioncast at 7:24 AM on April 5, 2018 [2 favorites]
In my case it's not hate for breast (again, I generally buy whole cleaned chickens), it's the idea that breast *on its own* is--to me--dry and flavorless.
Breast cooked down with the rest of the bird I find as delightful as, well, the rest. I use the whole damn thing and make stock with the carcass.
posted by aspersioncast at 7:24 AM on April 5, 2018 [2 favorites]
I feel like I mention this every other post, but I raise chickens for home consumption. We have heritage breeds that are quite a bit older than commercial chickens when they are slaughtered (20+ weeks for the heritage breeds we raise vs 8 weeks for commercial chickens).
The extra time the bird has to grow slowly also gives them extra time to grow fat. So when you cook the meat with the skin on, the natural fat oozes out and sort of self-fries the skin (of course, depends on how you're cooking - this would not be true if it is completely submersed in liquid, but is certainly true of a braise).
Which is to say, if you're basing your taste in chicken skin on chicken cooked from big-ag chicken, it is really just impossible to compare to a chicken that is not a genetic freak.
I am restraining myself from going into detail on how sad the commercial breeds are.
posted by slipthought at 7:34 AM on April 5, 2018 [3 favorites]
The extra time the bird has to grow slowly also gives them extra time to grow fat. So when you cook the meat with the skin on, the natural fat oozes out and sort of self-fries the skin (of course, depends on how you're cooking - this would not be true if it is completely submersed in liquid, but is certainly true of a braise).
Which is to say, if you're basing your taste in chicken skin on chicken cooked from big-ag chicken, it is really just impossible to compare to a chicken that is not a genetic freak.
I am restraining myself from going into detail on how sad the commercial breeds are.
posted by slipthought at 7:34 AM on April 5, 2018 [3 favorites]
i hope you realize if your location is in your profile we will all arrive en masse for dinner
posted by poffin boffin at 8:37 AM on April 5, 2018 [5 favorites]
posted by poffin boffin at 8:37 AM on April 5, 2018 [5 favorites]
i checked
posted by destrius at 9:14 AM on April 5, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by destrius at 9:14 AM on April 5, 2018 [2 favorites]
Do you want to win? Figure out what the judges like and cater to it.
It's not necessarily about "technically correct" cuisine, it's more about "what tastes good to Gregg and John"
While I understand the motivation here, I'm sure for some of the contestants in MasterChef winning isn't the only reason why they are competing. I think Southeast Asians in particular, who are really really passionate about their food, would also see it as an opportunity to show an international audience something about their home country they are damn proud of*.
So asking them to cook food that isn't authentic in order to win, would be throwing the baby out with the bathwater really. We really think our food tastes great, and want to share it with everybody else! It's like why I keep trying to convince guests who visit to try some durian, or at least a durian puff. No, seriously! It's really good! Why are you retching and running away?!
* for some of us, it might be the only thing we have to be proud of
posted by destrius at 9:25 AM on April 5, 2018 [3 favorites]
It's not necessarily about "technically correct" cuisine, it's more about "what tastes good to Gregg and John"
While I understand the motivation here, I'm sure for some of the contestants in MasterChef winning isn't the only reason why they are competing. I think Southeast Asians in particular, who are really really passionate about their food, would also see it as an opportunity to show an international audience something about their home country they are damn proud of*.
So asking them to cook food that isn't authentic in order to win, would be throwing the baby out with the bathwater really. We really think our food tastes great, and want to share it with everybody else! It's like why I keep trying to convince guests who visit to try some durian, or at least a durian puff. No, seriously! It's really good! Why are you retching and running away?!
* for some of us, it might be the only thing we have to be proud of
posted by destrius at 9:25 AM on April 5, 2018 [3 favorites]
I'm not saying people shouldn't be authentic, but it also is about winning. People can win with 'authentic' cooking (I think Ping Coombes from a few years back is a good example), but I also think you have to play the judges in order for you to last long enough to show off the cuisine of your culture.
posted by like_neon at 9:31 AM on April 5, 2018
posted by like_neon at 9:31 AM on April 5, 2018
And authenticity is a bit of a weird thing because I honestly don't think that's the point of the show. They're not there to say something is authentic or not (and thank god because they'd be clearly bad at it!) There are other cookery programs that focus on that, but it's not this. Contestants come out with traditional dishes, fusion dishes, deconstructed approaches, hybrid techniques and they're still judged by what Gregg and John think tastes good.
posted by like_neon at 9:37 AM on April 5, 2018
posted by like_neon at 9:37 AM on April 5, 2018
Sorry, just one last point on the authenticity angle. A few weeks back there was a contestant that made "bibimbap". She said she learned about bibimbap when she lived in Japan. Bibimbap is Korean. Wha she made was NOT BIBIMBAP. This is bibimbap. I really wish I took a picture of what she made because it was... not that. It was a pile of rice, with fried chicken and a slather of gochujang sauce and some pickled red cabbage or something like that.
She served it to the guest judges (previous winners) and John and Gregg and you know what? They liked it. The presentation was awful, but they said it tasted good. Not one word how what she made was not even bibimbap at all. I was hopping mad because I felt that this (white) woman totally misrepresented what bibimbap was and still got praised for it! She was eventually kicked off but mainly because her other dish wasn't good and she didn't stay within her time limits, and not because her bibimbap was an affront to bibimbap. But that's the show and that's the game.
posted by like_neon at 9:47 AM on April 5, 2018 [2 favorites]
She served it to the guest judges (previous winners) and John and Gregg and you know what? They liked it. The presentation was awful, but they said it tasted good. Not one word how what she made was not even bibimbap at all. I was hopping mad because I felt that this (white) woman totally misrepresented what bibimbap was and still got praised for it! She was eventually kicked off but mainly because her other dish wasn't good and she didn't stay within her time limits, and not because her bibimbap was an affront to bibimbap. But that's the show and that's the game.
posted by like_neon at 9:47 AM on April 5, 2018 [2 favorites]
You basically need a little bit of toughness because yeah if the meat is soft and falling off the bone it's actually overdone.
Ooh I'm delighted to read Chef Wan's comments. Truthfully I've not eaten rendang ayam many times as whenever I order nasi padang I'll get beef rendang instead. So despite it being a local dish I wasn't entirely sure how it is "supposed" to be.
Anyway, coq au vin was something that came to my mind too, and in fact that's kind of why I decided to give the judges the benefit of the doubt; I'm sure they are familiar with stewed chicken, so it can't be that they dislike the skin solely because it wasn't deep fried. From the way Chef Wan describes it, you basically need to cook the chicken long enough for all the fat underneath the skin to render away and the structure to begin to break down (and hence not be rubbery), but not so long as to have the structure in the meat fully break down, as you would have in beef rendang. That would probably need at least 45 minutes or so in the pot, i.e. probably impossible for MasterChef.
That's actually one of the things that irks me about all these cooking competition shows: I'm a big fan of food that takes a long time to cook, but because of the format such food can almost never appear in the competition. To me cooking shouldn't only be about rushing and trying to beat the clock (which is restaurant cooking I guess), but also about taking your time, slowly putting flavours together and getting them to know one another, and letting a wonderful thing build itself up over the course of hours or days. Food that has gravitas. I'd totally watch a slow TV-style show where the contestants are given 3 days to prepare a single dish and hours go by just watching a mysterious bubbling pot.
The other tip will work for practically any Malay/Indonesian cooking - the concept of 'pecah minyak' or breaking the oil. This is when you've sauteed your wet spices (in stages!!) till fragrant, and added the dry spice powders. Lightly stir every so often, but you know when the spice is cooked through when pockets of reddish oil starts appearing on the surface of the cooking paste.
Its quite interesting because that's a tip I've also read about for cooking Italian ragu; you need to see the oil seep out before you know the ragu is ready (this is at the end stage, not at the beginning stage, but I guess what you're describing is the end stage of preparing the rempah, right?). But yeah I know what you mean; that reddish oil is packed full of flavour.
Could you tell me more about the stages of cooking the wet spices, btw? My cookery is all self-taught, and mostly from me trying to recreate flavours of home when I was far away in the US, so I mostly relied on recipes I scrounged off the net plus my own memories of what things should taste like. I've always cooked the wet spices (I assume you mean garlic, shallots, etc.) all at once, but it seems to me that I'm doing it horribly wrong. :'(
posted by destrius at 9:47 AM on April 5, 2018 [4 favorites]
Ooh I'm delighted to read Chef Wan's comments. Truthfully I've not eaten rendang ayam many times as whenever I order nasi padang I'll get beef rendang instead. So despite it being a local dish I wasn't entirely sure how it is "supposed" to be.
Anyway, coq au vin was something that came to my mind too, and in fact that's kind of why I decided to give the judges the benefit of the doubt; I'm sure they are familiar with stewed chicken, so it can't be that they dislike the skin solely because it wasn't deep fried. From the way Chef Wan describes it, you basically need to cook the chicken long enough for all the fat underneath the skin to render away and the structure to begin to break down (and hence not be rubbery), but not so long as to have the structure in the meat fully break down, as you would have in beef rendang. That would probably need at least 45 minutes or so in the pot, i.e. probably impossible for MasterChef.
That's actually one of the things that irks me about all these cooking competition shows: I'm a big fan of food that takes a long time to cook, but because of the format such food can almost never appear in the competition. To me cooking shouldn't only be about rushing and trying to beat the clock (which is restaurant cooking I guess), but also about taking your time, slowly putting flavours together and getting them to know one another, and letting a wonderful thing build itself up over the course of hours or days. Food that has gravitas. I'd totally watch a slow TV-style show where the contestants are given 3 days to prepare a single dish and hours go by just watching a mysterious bubbling pot.
The other tip will work for practically any Malay/Indonesian cooking - the concept of 'pecah minyak' or breaking the oil. This is when you've sauteed your wet spices (in stages!!) till fragrant, and added the dry spice powders. Lightly stir every so often, but you know when the spice is cooked through when pockets of reddish oil starts appearing on the surface of the cooking paste.
Its quite interesting because that's a tip I've also read about for cooking Italian ragu; you need to see the oil seep out before you know the ragu is ready (this is at the end stage, not at the beginning stage, but I guess what you're describing is the end stage of preparing the rempah, right?). But yeah I know what you mean; that reddish oil is packed full of flavour.
Could you tell me more about the stages of cooking the wet spices, btw? My cookery is all self-taught, and mostly from me trying to recreate flavours of home when I was far away in the US, so I mostly relied on recipes I scrounged off the net plus my own memories of what things should taste like. I've always cooked the wet spices (I assume you mean garlic, shallots, etc.) all at once, but it seems to me that I'm doing it horribly wrong. :'(
posted by destrius at 9:47 AM on April 5, 2018 [4 favorites]
I've never really understood the point of conversations that go like this:
A: Ugh, x happened. I hate how things are like that.
B: I don't see what you're complaining about. Thing are like that.
Like... yes... things are like that... that's the whole thing being complained about?
posted by inconstant at 10:12 AM on April 5, 2018
A: Ugh, x happened. I hate how things are like that.
B: I don't see what you're complaining about. Thing are like that.
Like... yes... things are like that... that's the whole thing being complained about?
posted by inconstant at 10:12 AM on April 5, 2018
Indian cooking also talks about cooking until the oil separates; it's discussed some here. I wonder what is happening physically at that moment? One comment suggests it's the moment when all the water is driven out of whatever you're cooking, which could or could not be true. (One thing I find fascinating about Indian cooking is the many different ways to cook the same spice, including tadka. Sometimes you'll add cumin or something 3 different times during cooking.)
My favorite cooking competition show is Chopped. Sometimes they call out chefs for making things that are inauthentic. "You called this a pilaf but it is not a pilaf". But they mostly just roll with whatever the contestants make for them and seldom care about detailed authenticity, particularly in non-European food.
I'm still gonna go with my personal preference that stewed chicken skin is rubbery and gross. But now I'm wondering if I've just never had it right and I should be open minded. Skinless chicken breast is a terribly boring meat, but it is very convenient. And if you're cooking it in a rich and fatty sauce a lot of its weaknesses are hidden.
posted by Nelson at 11:10 AM on April 5, 2018
My favorite cooking competition show is Chopped. Sometimes they call out chefs for making things that are inauthentic. "You called this a pilaf but it is not a pilaf". But they mostly just roll with whatever the contestants make for them and seldom care about detailed authenticity, particularly in non-European food.
I'm still gonna go with my personal preference that stewed chicken skin is rubbery and gross. But now I'm wondering if I've just never had it right and I should be open minded. Skinless chicken breast is a terribly boring meat, but it is very convenient. And if you're cooking it in a rich and fatty sauce a lot of its weaknesses are hidden.
posted by Nelson at 11:10 AM on April 5, 2018
Related: a woman with more patience than I would have attempts to coach Gordon Ramsay in the art of rendang.
posted by zeusianfog at 12:55 PM on April 5, 2018
posted by zeusianfog at 12:55 PM on April 5, 2018
Yeah I would say breaking the oil ala Nusantara/Maritime Southeast Asia and separating the oil ala India are practically the same concepts, but I don't know why either. It is definitely the step that helps to make or break the spice mix... It's definitely that upbringing that makes me recoil at mixing uncooked curry powder with cold mayo to make coronation chicken lolol. (Only some versions do this thank God)
destrius: you need to see the oil seep out before you know the ragu is ready (this is at the end stage, not at the beginning stage, but I guess what you're describing is the end stage of preparing the rempah, right?)
Right. And in fact, that ragu tip is also good to know if a curry is ready at the end as well. For the rempah/spice, it's to know when it's proper cooked so you can add the liquids such as coconut milk.
About your question on the steps for the wet spices, I'm going to c&p what I emailed my friend years ago, which will involve the whole process. You're not being horribly wrong, but basically you CAN do it all together IF you're blending it fine with water like the way Aini does it in the link just before me, which is great if you're doing cooking for many, but if you're solo and broke(-ish), I chose to spend money on the traditional pestle & mortar because it's more versatile for my needs so I still need to prep separately anyway:
------------------------
this is malay/southeast asian style because the basic dry spice config does differ (eg indian would use mustard seeds and would go first of all and you wait till they start popping)
1. over low-medium fire and not too hot oil, toast the WHOLE SPICES (the 'three friends' are always: cinnamon sticks/fragments; cloves; star anise. there's usually a fourth friend, cardamom pods) the ratio is up to you, but not too much cloves relative to the rest cos it's strong
2. once tht's fragrant put in the WET SPICES (mashed//pounded)
a. garlic until fragrant
b. onion & shallots (whichever available, trad combo is big red onions and those red shallots) until translucent
c. others like ginger (must), galangal (when available), dried and whole chillies, lemongrass (only if you're making a rendang variation) -- when making rendang, this is when u put in the sliced tumeric leaves;
d. at this step you add these dried whole spices and wet spices that don't need to long to cook as base: chilli + pounded fennel seeds when it's fish; pounded cumin when it's meat; kaffir lime leaves when you're making rendang
3. curry powder (diff meats/fish has diff combo, there shd be diff packs) 1-2 tablespoons, up to you. this is when you add a little bit of water + tamarind paste (1 tbsp or so? up to you), so it's a wet paste. [CURRY POWDER IS NOT A STEP IN RENDANG]
-- this will take a while, you'll know they're all done when there's a thin layer of red oil on top. you can stir a little throughout.
4. add your (cleaned and marinated with tumeric + chilli powder + salt <>Malaysia episode. It's really enjoyable watching him being harangued by aunties of every race. i still can't believe he somehow got 2nd place in a nasi lemak cooking test ha.
posted by cendawanita at 1:23 PM on April 5, 2018 [11 favorites]
destrius: you need to see the oil seep out before you know the ragu is ready (this is at the end stage, not at the beginning stage, but I guess what you're describing is the end stage of preparing the rempah, right?)
Right. And in fact, that ragu tip is also good to know if a curry is ready at the end as well. For the rempah/spice, it's to know when it's proper cooked so you can add the liquids such as coconut milk.
About your question on the steps for the wet spices, I'm going to c&p what I emailed my friend years ago, which will involve the whole process. You're not being horribly wrong, but basically you CAN do it all together IF you're blending it fine with water like the way Aini does it in the link just before me, which is great if you're doing cooking for many, but if you're solo and broke(-ish), I chose to spend money on the traditional pestle & mortar because it's more versatile for my needs so I still need to prep separately anyway:
------------------------
this is malay/southeast asian style because the basic dry spice config does differ (eg indian would use mustard seeds and would go first of all and you wait till they start popping)
1. over low-medium fire and not too hot oil, toast the WHOLE SPICES (the 'three friends' are always: cinnamon sticks/fragments; cloves; star anise. there's usually a fourth friend, cardamom pods) the ratio is up to you, but not too much cloves relative to the rest cos it's strong
2. once tht's fragrant put in the WET SPICES (mashed//pounded)
a. garlic until fragrant
b. onion & shallots (whichever available, trad combo is big red onions and those red shallots) until translucent
c. others like ginger (must), galangal (when available), dried and whole chillies, lemongrass (only if you're making a rendang variation) -- when making rendang, this is when u put in the sliced tumeric leaves;
d. at this step you add these dried whole spices and wet spices that don't need to long to cook as base: chilli + pounded fennel seeds when it's fish; pounded cumin when it's meat; kaffir lime leaves when you're making rendang
3. curry powder (diff meats/fish has diff combo, there shd be diff packs) 1-2 tablespoons, up to you. this is when you add a little bit of water + tamarind paste (1 tbsp or so? up to you), so it's a wet paste. [CURRY POWDER IS NOT A STEP IN RENDANG]
-- this will take a while, you'll know they're all done when there's a thin layer of red oil on top. you can stir a little throughout.
4. add your (cleaned and marinated with tumeric + chilli powder + salt <>Malaysia episode. It's really enjoyable watching him being harangued by aunties of every race. i still can't believe he somehow got 2nd place in a nasi lemak cooking test ha.
posted by cendawanita at 1:23 PM on April 5, 2018 [11 favorites]
> Related: a woman with more patience than I would have attempts to coach Gordon Ramsay in the art of rendang.
Hah! Everything agak agak used to drive me mad when I was starting out cooking. It's one thing when you're there to watch and maybe slip a weighing scale under the mixing bowl, but asking for a recipe over the phone? Abandon all hope.
posted by lucidium at 1:33 PM on April 5, 2018
Hah! Everything agak agak used to drive me mad when I was starting out cooking. It's one thing when you're there to watch and maybe slip a weighing scale under the mixing bowl, but asking for a recipe over the phone? Abandon all hope.
posted by lucidium at 1:33 PM on April 5, 2018
Oh no why did my comment still got borked?? I swear I previewed.
anyway:
----------
4. add your (cleaned and typically marinated with tumeric + chilli powder + salt) your meats and the tougher veges like potatoes. add more water and the tamarind paste mix and also more water as needed.
5. bring to simmer, add your dairy - yog, milk or coconut milk/cream. or not at at all. this is also when you can add kerisik after a while. kerisik is the toasted coconut butter, you can do it yourself, just dry fry shredded coconut until it becomes oily and silky.
6. bring to simmer and until it dries down to your liking.
I linked to the Gordon's Great Escape episode in Malaysia, was where that comment got snipped: here it is
re: agak-agak - at this point i believe there're more cultures practicing that philosophy than not lol
posted by cendawanita at 1:46 PM on April 5, 2018 [3 favorites]
anyway:
----------
4. add your (cleaned and typically marinated with tumeric + chilli powder + salt) your meats and the tougher veges like potatoes. add more water and the tamarind paste mix and also more water as needed.
5. bring to simmer, add your dairy - yog, milk or coconut milk/cream. or not at at all. this is also when you can add kerisik after a while. kerisik is the toasted coconut butter, you can do it yourself, just dry fry shredded coconut until it becomes oily and silky.
6. bring to simmer and until it dries down to your liking.
I linked to the Gordon's Great Escape episode in Malaysia, was where that comment got snipped: here it is
re: agak-agak - at this point i believe there're more cultures practicing that philosophy than not lol
posted by cendawanita at 1:46 PM on April 5, 2018 [3 favorites]
this entire thread is filled with examples of western colonialist bullshit when it comes to food. the sheer gall of so many of you speaking with presumed authority over matters you know so little about...
well, that's mefi in a nutshell.
posted by anem0ne at 11:09 AM on April 5 [+] [!]
Dude, would you like to step outside?
posted by pjmoy at 3:49 PM on April 5, 2018 [2 favorites]
Well it's not just overeducated Asian Americans like myself willing to point out that this whole episode is an instructive example of how microaggressions happen; for even the Malaysian PM speaking out and the Malaysian media coverage on this points to how this matters for people dealing with the legacy of postcolonialism today. So, there's a lot about it that is galling.
I'm going to trying toasting/sauteeing some dry and wet spices for dinner tonight, but that won't stop me from thinking about the social dimensions of this, and we should encourage broader awareness of the social and cultural issues. I don't believe that the way to resolve this is to "focus on the neutral positive" by only talking about the cooking (as fascinating as that is, I know); there is no such neutrality.
posted by polymodus at 4:30 PM on April 5, 2018 [4 favorites]
I'm going to trying toasting/sauteeing some dry and wet spices for dinner tonight, but that won't stop me from thinking about the social dimensions of this, and we should encourage broader awareness of the social and cultural issues. I don't believe that the way to resolve this is to "focus on the neutral positive" by only talking about the cooking (as fascinating as that is, I know); there is no such neutrality.
posted by polymodus at 4:30 PM on April 5, 2018 [4 favorites]
Rendang-gate: 7 of the best ads from SEA brands
(Coincidentally I did actually have nasi lemak with chicken rendang for breakfast because it was the best-looking option at the airport.)
posted by cendawanita at 3:40 AM on April 6, 2018 [1 favorite]
(Coincidentally I did actually have nasi lemak with chicken rendang for breakfast because it was the best-looking option at the airport.)
posted by cendawanita at 3:40 AM on April 6, 2018 [1 favorite]
Thanks for the recipe, cendawanita! I'm going to cook rendang again one day... less need to do so nowadays since I'm back home, but my favourite nasi padang stall has basically disappeared. Argh, so hungry now.
One thing I find amusing is how western recipes always call for garlic to be added last to avoid burning it, but Asian recipes always seem to add it first. My mom told me that if the garlic in the wok isn't brown, it isn't cooked enough yet.
posted by destrius at 8:22 AM on April 6, 2018
One thing I find amusing is how western recipes always call for garlic to be added last to avoid burning it, but Asian recipes always seem to add it first. My mom told me that if the garlic in the wok isn't brown, it isn't cooked enough yet.
posted by destrius at 8:22 AM on April 6, 2018
Indian cooking also talks about cooking until the oil separates; it's discussed some here. I wonder what is happening physically at that moment? One comment suggests it's the moment when all the water is driven out of whatever you're cooking, which could or could not be true.
That's what I suspect is happening too, although I'm not sure why the oil will start to seep out when there's no more water left. But one reason why I think it's important is that it is also the point at which the temperature of the food starts to go beyond water's boiling point; things start frying very gently in the oil that seeps out, which probably contributes a lot to the flavour via the maillard reaction.
My favorite cooking competition show is Chopped. Sometimes they call out chefs for making things that are inauthentic. "You called this a pilaf but it is not a pilaf". But they mostly just roll with whatever the contestants make for them and seldom care about detailed authenticity, particularly in non-European food.
I actually took issue with some of the judges in Chopped for a similar reason to the one we're discussing here. In one of the episodes, a judge made a huge deal about a contestant for not deveining a prawn (shrimp for you Americans), declaring it inedible. But I eat prawns with veins intact all the time here; usually when you steam or boil whole prawns in Chinese cooking, you do so with everything intact, including the head. And in another episode, a contestant got scolded for keeping the tips on his chicken wings, and was told he should have cut them off. Which to us is incredibly absurd: the tips are one of the best parts of the wing!
posted by destrius at 8:23 AM on April 6, 2018 [1 favorite]
That's what I suspect is happening too, although I'm not sure why the oil will start to seep out when there's no more water left. But one reason why I think it's important is that it is also the point at which the temperature of the food starts to go beyond water's boiling point; things start frying very gently in the oil that seeps out, which probably contributes a lot to the flavour via the maillard reaction.
My favorite cooking competition show is Chopped. Sometimes they call out chefs for making things that are inauthentic. "You called this a pilaf but it is not a pilaf". But they mostly just roll with whatever the contestants make for them and seldom care about detailed authenticity, particularly in non-European food.
I actually took issue with some of the judges in Chopped for a similar reason to the one we're discussing here. In one of the episodes, a judge made a huge deal about a contestant for not deveining a prawn (shrimp for you Americans), declaring it inedible. But I eat prawns with veins intact all the time here; usually when you steam or boil whole prawns in Chinese cooking, you do so with everything intact, including the head. And in another episode, a contestant got scolded for keeping the tips on his chicken wings, and was told he should have cut them off. Which to us is incredibly absurd: the tips are one of the best parts of the wing!
posted by destrius at 8:23 AM on April 6, 2018 [1 favorite]
One thing I find amusing is how western recipes always call for garlic to be added last to avoid burning itWait, what? Why? Isn't "caramelization" the big ups? It's not like you're literally going to burn the garlic into inedible carbon by putting it in first. As you said, at most brown. How are you supposed to get the garlic flavor into the oil if you add it last?
posted by inconstant at 8:33 AM on April 6, 2018
Garlic has lots of different flavors depending on how you use it. Lots of American/European cookbooks talk about how garlic gets a bitter flavor if cooked too long, to be avoided. So they add it at the very last moment. European food seldom wants raw garlic, that's too harsh, but cooked briefly just to mellow it. European food also sometimes uses long cooked garlic but usually roasted until it sweetens and has a nutty flavor. That garlic is caramelized, but in most European cooking you do not look to garlic for caramelized flavors. You get that flavor from the onions and meat.
(Another fun fact about garlic; the way you cut / crush / chop it affects the flavor. More details here.)
posted by Nelson at 8:52 AM on April 6, 2018
(Another fun fact about garlic; the way you cut / crush / chop it affects the flavor. More details here.)
posted by Nelson at 8:52 AM on April 6, 2018
Yeah, I will often add garlic in stages to cover different flavors; a little at the end so you get some of the sharpness. There are also many different kinds of garlic with their own distinct flavors!
posted by aspersioncast at 12:45 PM on April 6, 2018
posted by aspersioncast at 12:45 PM on April 6, 2018
There were a couple of moments like this in Top Chef too. The most egregious being when Tom Colichio (sp?) tore apart a dish that combined tomatoes and peanut butter, unaware that that's a pairing used by about a 3rd of the world. These reality shows always seem to bend over backward to avoid showing than judges as anything but all-knowing. Just fess up already and move on.
posted by xammerboy at 9:02 PM on April 6, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by xammerboy at 9:02 PM on April 6, 2018 [1 favorite]
tomatoes and peanut butter, unaware that that's a pairing used by about a 3rd of the world.
What?
*googles*
Omg I need this in my life stat.
posted by like_neon at 12:57 AM on April 7, 2018 [1 favorite]
What?
*googles*
Omg I need this in my life stat.
posted by like_neon at 12:57 AM on April 7, 2018 [1 favorite]
Now imagine a British contestant presenting his family's beloved fish and chips recipe on Masterchef Malaysia
posted by cendawanita at 7:24 AM on April 9, 2018
posted by cendawanita at 7:24 AM on April 9, 2018
"JFC. I usually just buy whole chickens, but I do not understand the obsession with chicken breast. Glad I had one of those grandmothers who ate a lot of organ meats."
I don't get it either, it's like consolation prize chicken. Yeah, it's chicken, but it's all dry and dusty and flavourless compared to every other part of the bird.
posted by GoblinHoney at 9:27 AM on April 9, 2018
I don't get it either, it's like consolation prize chicken. Yeah, it's chicken, but it's all dry and dusty and flavourless compared to every other part of the bird.
posted by GoblinHoney at 9:27 AM on April 9, 2018
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And sticky. I can't imagine how you'd do it and have crispy skin?
posted by slipthought at 4:20 PM on April 4, 2018 [1 favorite]