"I felt devastated."
April 17, 2018 1:09 PM Subscribe
"You may have seen the video of Washington Capitals’ Brett Connolly trying to give a little girl a puck, only to be intercepted twice by a man standing behind her. We asked Keelan Moxley for her side of the story."
Nice to see comics writer extraordinaire Kurt Busiek repping for the side of truth and justice on the second link.
posted by Strange Interlude at 1:16 PM on April 17, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by Strange Interlude at 1:16 PM on April 17, 2018 [2 favorites]
Holy shit, the amount of water carrying in that Twitter comment thread, the thing may as well be a fucking aqueduct.
posted by codacorolla at 1:20 PM on April 17, 2018 [12 favorites]
posted by codacorolla at 1:20 PM on April 17, 2018 [12 favorites]
Yeah, what an asshole that commentator was, trying to excuse the unforgivingly shitty behavior of the man who caught the puck. Fuckheads, both of them. That puck was obviously meant for that little girl.
posted by WalkerWestridge at 1:23 PM on April 17, 2018 [20 favorites]
posted by WalkerWestridge at 1:23 PM on April 17, 2018 [20 favorites]
Per updates to the Deadspin article, at least one and possibly both of the boys had no connection to the guy stealing the pucks at all. So he was taking a puck meant for her and giving it to another child for no other reason than that child was a boy. So yeah, misogynist asshole.
posted by tavella at 1:29 PM on April 17, 2018 [72 favorites]
posted by tavella at 1:29 PM on April 17, 2018 [72 favorites]
I kind of want John Carlson to come out and be like "dude, quit wearing my jersey. You're a dick."
posted by librarianamy at 1:31 PM on April 17, 2018 [7 favorites]
posted by librarianamy at 1:31 PM on April 17, 2018 [7 favorites]
This video made my blood boil. It encapsulates my entire experience when I say that I played on the women's ice hockey team in college. The men rarely believe that 1) I played hockey and 2) women in general play hockey. A teammate served in the Navy after college. She's said that the same people who accept her as a military veteran have trouble accepting the fact that she plays hockey (and she's pretty damn good too).
(Also, totally joined the hockey team in college because my parents never let me play when I was growing up. They said hockey isn't a sport for girls. Fuck them.)
posted by astapasta24 at 1:35 PM on April 17, 2018 [61 favorites]
(Also, totally joined the hockey team in college because my parents never let me play when I was growing up. They said hockey isn't a sport for girls. Fuck them.)
posted by astapasta24 at 1:35 PM on April 17, 2018 [61 favorites]
What a nice [that's not the right word, but it's the only one that comes to mind at the moment] girl. She was happy that the boys got the pucks but still sad she didn't. She showed so much empathy and maturity and consideration, it puts most adults to shame.
posted by sardonyx at 1:38 PM on April 17, 2018 [20 favorites]
posted by sardonyx at 1:38 PM on April 17, 2018 [20 favorites]
This video enraged me. Like, I'm fuming and talking to my iPad screen right now. What an asshole! This little vignette is a metaphor for what it's like to grow up as a girl--or for that matter, to be a grown woman--in a misogynist society.
I did like that Brett Connolly looked like he wanted to reach through the glass and throttle the asshole who kept taking the pucks and giving them to the boys.
And in the second link when The National's Andrew Chang is like, "People all over Twitter are ripping the guy to shreds, asking, 'Why did you hand the puck to everyone except her?' I don't know the answer, and I don't think anyone knows the answer except him." WELL I KNOW THE ANSWER AND IT RHYMES WITH SCHMISOGYNY!
JFC. Let's not pretend to be ignorant.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 1:44 PM on April 17, 2018 [73 favorites]
I did like that Brett Connolly looked like he wanted to reach through the glass and throttle the asshole who kept taking the pucks and giving them to the boys.
And in the second link when The National's Andrew Chang is like, "People all over Twitter are ripping the guy to shreds, asking, 'Why did you hand the puck to everyone except her?' I don't know the answer, and I don't think anyone knows the answer except him." WELL I KNOW THE ANSWER AND IT RHYMES WITH SCHMISOGYNY!
JFC. Let's not pretend to be ignorant.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 1:44 PM on April 17, 2018 [73 favorites]
Yeah, "Man steals pucks from little girl", not "Benevolent Father distributes items equally"
"But the old axiom was misleading. Taking the candy proved exceedingly difficult."
posted by Query at 1:44 PM on April 17, 2018 [2 favorites]
"But the old axiom was misleading. Taking the candy proved exceedingly difficult."
posted by Query at 1:44 PM on April 17, 2018 [2 favorites]
I am fucking enraged after watching that video.
posted by bq at 1:45 PM on April 17, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by bq at 1:45 PM on April 17, 2018 [1 favorite]
The looks on the faces of the women in the second link when anchor/commentator-dude says "I certainly don't know why [the guy gave the first two pucks to the boys]." They know, and showed impressive restraint in not eye-rolling him out of that split screen.
posted by camyram at 1:45 PM on April 17, 2018 [11 favorites]
posted by camyram at 1:45 PM on April 17, 2018 [11 favorites]
There are a lot of people saying things like, oh, the adult man was just trying to make sure that they all got pucks! And even if that was the case, this tweet really summed it up well:
@uroosa He’s teaching her she comes last, and that what’s meant for her will go to others. He’s teaching them that they are entitled to what’s not meant for them.
It's just so careless.
posted by everybody had matching towels at 1:46 PM on April 17, 2018 [98 favorites]
@uroosa He’s teaching her she comes last, and that what’s meant for her will go to others. He’s teaching them that they are entitled to what’s not meant for them.
It's just so careless.
posted by everybody had matching towels at 1:46 PM on April 17, 2018 [98 favorites]
I couldn't bear watching after the 2nd boy was given a puck.
posted by ZeusHumms at 1:50 PM on April 17, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by ZeusHumms at 1:50 PM on April 17, 2018 [1 favorite]
The look on her face when the first puck got handed to the boy - she knew that puck was meant for her. I'd bet Connolly had made direct eye contact with her prior to tossing the puck over. The boys were totally unfazed by their pucks and she was just delighted once she finally got hers.
I was sad and angry all at once watching it last night.
posted by BooneTheCowboyToy at 1:51 PM on April 17, 2018 [5 favorites]
I was sad and angry all at once watching it last night.
posted by BooneTheCowboyToy at 1:51 PM on April 17, 2018 [5 favorites]
"I certainly don't know the answer."
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 1:52 PM on April 17, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 1:52 PM on April 17, 2018 [2 favorites]
Perhaps grown men should be barred from sporting events for the foreseeable future.
posted by GenjiandProust at 1:53 PM on April 17, 2018 [13 favorites]
posted by GenjiandProust at 1:53 PM on April 17, 2018 [13 favorites]
I'm one racist/sexist twitter post away from going on a murderous rampage.
I almost didn't post this, I don't think metafilter is a place for "this is a thing that will make you mad!!" so I'm sorry! I have been thinking about it a lot since the video went around, and I was so happy to see that CBC followed up not with the guy or the boys or the girl's parents, but Keelan Moxley herself and that she got to speak her own words about her experience.
Anyway I can't wait to see her in 10 or 15 years kicking ass on the USWNT or something. Go Keeley!
posted by everybody had matching towels at 1:53 PM on April 17, 2018 [12 favorites]
I almost didn't post this, I don't think metafilter is a place for "this is a thing that will make you mad!!" so I'm sorry! I have been thinking about it a lot since the video went around, and I was so happy to see that CBC followed up not with the guy or the boys or the girl's parents, but Keelan Moxley herself and that she got to speak her own words about her experience.
Anyway I can't wait to see her in 10 or 15 years kicking ass on the USWNT or something. Go Keeley!
posted by everybody had matching towels at 1:53 PM on April 17, 2018 [12 favorites]
The true story behind the Capitals' 'puck girl,' first-grader Keelan Moxley - Darren Rovell, ESPN
posted by ZeusHumms at 1:55 PM on April 17, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by ZeusHumms at 1:55 PM on April 17, 2018 [2 favorites]
Mod note: Couple comments deleted; let's skip the murdery talk, it's landing badly for enough people that it'll end up a derail.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 2:00 PM on April 17, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 2:00 PM on April 17, 2018 [3 favorites]
I almost didn't post this, I don't think metafilter is a place for "this is a thing that will make you mad!!" so I'm sorry!
Hey, it's okay! I actually watched this yesterday, so I've been pissed off about it for 24 hours! The headline of the post I saw was something like "Watch the Emotional Roller Coaster this Girl Goes through at a Hockey Game." It was framed as a cute little story that all works out in the end, without examining why it might have been a problematic little drama. The commentators', um, commentary just added more gloss to the glossing-over. I'm happy to see it posted here so I can experience others echoing my impotent rage, which really isn't even about the video, but is about, you know, patriarchy.
Shove it all up against the boards. I'm sick of it.
posted by mudpuppie at 2:01 PM on April 17, 2018 [11 favorites]
Hey, it's okay! I actually watched this yesterday, so I've been pissed off about it for 24 hours! The headline of the post I saw was something like "Watch the Emotional Roller Coaster this Girl Goes through at a Hockey Game." It was framed as a cute little story that all works out in the end, without examining why it might have been a problematic little drama. The commentators', um, commentary just added more gloss to the glossing-over. I'm happy to see it posted here so I can experience others echoing my impotent rage, which really isn't even about the video, but is about, you know, patriarchy.
Shove it all up against the boards. I'm sick of it.
posted by mudpuppie at 2:01 PM on April 17, 2018 [11 favorites]
camyram: The looks on the faces of the women in the second link when anchor/commentator-dude says "I certainly don't know why [the guy gave the first two pucks to the boys]." They know, and showed impressive restraint in not eye-rolling him out of that split screen.
Oh my god yes, I thought Adrienne Arsenault's eyes were going to bug out of their sockets.
From ZeusHumms' article: "I was standing near her and I saw it all happen, but I never thought the guy who was catching the pucks had any ill intentions," [Keeley's mom] Lauren said.
What?? No. That guy knew exactly what he was doing.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 2:03 PM on April 17, 2018 [9 favorites]
Oh my god yes, I thought Adrienne Arsenault's eyes were going to bug out of their sockets.
From ZeusHumms' article: "I was standing near her and I saw it all happen, but I never thought the guy who was catching the pucks had any ill intentions," [Keeley's mom] Lauren said.
What?? No. That guy knew exactly what he was doing.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 2:03 PM on April 17, 2018 [9 favorites]
It's not only men that are enmeshed in patriarchy, after all. And I'm sure the guy is offended that people think he's an asshole; after, sports are for boys so obviously the pucks should go to them. It really is the water that we swim in.
posted by tavella at 2:07 PM on April 17, 2018 [7 favorites]
posted by tavella at 2:07 PM on April 17, 2018 [7 favorites]
What?? No. That guy knew exactly what he was doing.
I realize it's the internet and we're all Judge Dredd here but well, no, we don't know that.
We've all seen the footage -- angle on the nice guy hockey player trying to flip a puck to the little girl that was directly in front of him. But the villain of the piece -- he didn't have this angle. He perhaps didn't see the intention. He was just one more fan crowded up against the glass, celebrating a play-off goal.
I fault him for getting all grabby with the pucks in the first place, but wonder how we actually know what he was thinking when he passed them on to the little boys first.
posted by philip-random at 2:11 PM on April 17, 2018 [3 favorites]
I realize it's the internet and we're all Judge Dredd here but well, no, we don't know that.
We've all seen the footage -- angle on the nice guy hockey player trying to flip a puck to the little girl that was directly in front of him. But the villain of the piece -- he didn't have this angle. He perhaps didn't see the intention. He was just one more fan crowded up against the glass, celebrating a play-off goal.
I fault him for getting all grabby with the pucks in the first place, but wonder how we actually know what he was thinking when he passed them on to the little boys first.
posted by philip-random at 2:11 PM on April 17, 2018 [3 favorites]
or maybe he didn't explicitly know, but we all know why- girls don't get to be first, especially with sports-related stuff.
Unconscious misogyny is still forkin awful. The willful misogyny of all of his apologists is unacceptable.
That poor girl's face after she didn't get the second toss! :'c
posted by Hermeowne Grangepurr at 2:11 PM on April 17, 2018 [39 favorites]
Unconscious misogyny is still forkin awful. The willful misogyny of all of his apologists is unacceptable.
That poor girl's face after she didn't get the second toss! :'c
posted by Hermeowne Grangepurr at 2:11 PM on April 17, 2018 [39 favorites]
"I was standing near her and I saw it all happen, but I never thought the guy who was catching the pucks had any ill intentions,"
It is possible that the misogyny in this dude is so deeply ingrained that he does shitty things all the time without any intent at all. Like his mind and body are just a closed system of misogyny, incapable of examining itself (and indeed unaware that it even should examine itself) and always making the misogynistic choice every single time.
This is why intent doesn't especially matter when we're discussing things like hostile work environment or certain cases of harassment - not realizing that you've been socialized to mistreat people and then mistreating them without intent does not mean you treated them right.
I mean, I'm preaching to the converted here but "I didn't intend..." is only useful if its immediately followed by "but now I realize..." and "and from now on I'll..."
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:12 PM on April 17, 2018 [84 favorites]
It is possible that the misogyny in this dude is so deeply ingrained that he does shitty things all the time without any intent at all. Like his mind and body are just a closed system of misogyny, incapable of examining itself (and indeed unaware that it even should examine itself) and always making the misogynistic choice every single time.
This is why intent doesn't especially matter when we're discussing things like hostile work environment or certain cases of harassment - not realizing that you've been socialized to mistreat people and then mistreating them without intent does not mean you treated them right.
I mean, I'm preaching to the converted here but "I didn't intend..." is only useful if its immediately followed by "but now I realize..." and "and from now on I'll..."
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:12 PM on April 17, 2018 [84 favorites]
I fault him for getting all grabby with the pucks in the first place, but wonder how we actually know what he was thinking when he passed them on to the little boys first.
I could see that he could snatch the puck since he was taller, and no one wants to have kids beaned on their head, but he PURPOSEFULLY DIDN'T give it to the little girl! He went on one side of her and then the other! And only after the two boys got their pucks, the hockey player pounded on the glass and tossed another one, only THEN did she get the puck. Inexcusable.
posted by Hermeowne Grangepurr at 2:15 PM on April 17, 2018 [35 favorites]
I could see that he could snatch the puck since he was taller, and no one wants to have kids beaned on their head, but he PURPOSEFULLY DIDN'T give it to the little girl! He went on one side of her and then the other! And only after the two boys got their pucks, the hockey player pounded on the glass and tossed another one, only THEN did she get the puck. Inexcusable.
posted by Hermeowne Grangepurr at 2:15 PM on April 17, 2018 [35 favorites]
Heartbreaking video, but at least it had a good outcome for the little girl at the end. I'm not a big sports person, but I do go to Dodgers games -- and I always notice this selfish behavior when it comes to fly balls. While there are times that I see adults give the balls to children, there are enough times I see adults literally grab balls out of childrens hands that makes me really sad.
posted by xtine at 2:15 PM on April 17, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by xtine at 2:15 PM on April 17, 2018 [1 favorite]
I hope Keelan Moxley grows up to a gold medalist turned professional hockey player who destroys assholes who try to steal her puck. ALL the pucks are yours now, Keelan. TAKE THEM.
I also have just learned that 8-years-and-under youth hockey like she plays is called "mite hockey" and oh my gosh that is the cutest name?!?!?!
posted by nicebookrack at 2:18 PM on April 17, 2018 [29 favorites]
I also have just learned that 8-years-and-under youth hockey like she plays is called "mite hockey" and oh my gosh that is the cutest name?!?!?!
posted by nicebookrack at 2:18 PM on April 17, 2018 [29 favorites]
You know what does make me really happy about this?
The fact that Connolly made such a fucking point of making sure that that little girl got that puck.
It would have been so easy for him to just move on, sigh internally, and go "well, that's life" and move on with his game, not wanting to spotlight what a douche the older man was being. It's a huge reason that more men don't seem to push back, either; desire not to make a scene or possibly risk antagonism from other men. (At least, that's what I hear when I ask men, every time we have a structural misogyny thread, what they do or don't do when these small things happen and why.)
He didn't.
He politely but firmly made a big and increasingly specific deal of who he fucking wanted to get that puck.
He's the reason that little girl got a puck at all. He's the reason that we noticed that jackass, collectively as people. And he's the one who pointed out how fucked up that that adult man was catching those pucks and handing them out first to little boys who didn't really give a shit instead of the little girl losing her mind with enthusiasm.
That's allyship, and it makes me happy even as I wish it wasn't necessary.
posted by sciatrix at 2:19 PM on April 17, 2018 [224 favorites]
The fact that Connolly made such a fucking point of making sure that that little girl got that puck.
It would have been so easy for him to just move on, sigh internally, and go "well, that's life" and move on with his game, not wanting to spotlight what a douche the older man was being. It's a huge reason that more men don't seem to push back, either; desire not to make a scene or possibly risk antagonism from other men. (At least, that's what I hear when I ask men, every time we have a structural misogyny thread, what they do or don't do when these small things happen and why.)
He didn't.
He politely but firmly made a big and increasingly specific deal of who he fucking wanted to get that puck.
He's the reason that little girl got a puck at all. He's the reason that we noticed that jackass, collectively as people. And he's the one who pointed out how fucked up that that adult man was catching those pucks and handing them out first to little boys who didn't really give a shit instead of the little girl losing her mind with enthusiasm.
That's allyship, and it makes me happy even as I wish it wasn't necessary.
posted by sciatrix at 2:19 PM on April 17, 2018 [224 favorites]
I've known women my age - in my thirties - who learned as children that boys get to eat first.
They weren't told that boys get to eat first. No one said, "boys get to eat first." Their parents probably didn't even think that they were sexist. But somehow the boys got served first, often while the girl was still helping her mother do the serving. And if the boys learned they could get the drumstick by being faster and more aggressive than the girls, well then, that's just how they are.
This man might not even know he's being sexist and would probably deny it. But you can see the look on that little girls' face as she learns the lesson he's teaching her - it's heartbreaking.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 2:19 PM on April 17, 2018 [51 favorites]
They weren't told that boys get to eat first. No one said, "boys get to eat first." Their parents probably didn't even think that they were sexist. But somehow the boys got served first, often while the girl was still helping her mother do the serving. And if the boys learned they could get the drumstick by being faster and more aggressive than the girls, well then, that's just how they are.
This man might not even know he's being sexist and would probably deny it. But you can see the look on that little girls' face as she learns the lesson he's teaching her - it's heartbreaking.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 2:19 PM on April 17, 2018 [51 favorites]
And the other thought that just popped into my mind -- is that neither of the boys even bothered to notice the girl. They either didn't have the awareness it was meant for her, or were just plain selfish. Probably both? What will the boys learn? They are the priority. Even if they notice the girl next to them eventually gets the puck, she is last.
posted by xtine at 2:19 PM on April 17, 2018 [29 favorites]
posted by xtine at 2:19 PM on April 17, 2018 [29 favorites]
Though for all my rage about the built in misogyny on display, I gotta give a thumbs up to the guy who makes the extra effort to let the little girl get her share, so good on you Brett Connolly!
posted by tavella at 2:21 PM on April 17, 2018 [10 favorites]
posted by tavella at 2:21 PM on April 17, 2018 [10 favorites]
Like, that extra effort is so small and yet for would-be allies it looms so large. The fear that publicly showing someone to be acting badly is so much worse than correcting the injustices that hurt other people is real, and often justified by the reactions of people just like that announcer making justifications for the sexism of the intercepting man. People are so much more afraid that the interceptor will feel bad about the interaction than they are afraid for the little girl's feelings and enthusiasm, and he's a grown-ass man and she's what, six?
So. That. Be like Connolly in this moment. Think about whose embarrassment and social rejection sit heavier, and if you see something small and unjust, point it the fuck out.
That's an athlete's action worth emulating. We've been seeing more of that lately, and it heartens me. That's all.
posted by sciatrix at 2:25 PM on April 17, 2018 [38 favorites]
So. That. Be like Connolly in this moment. Think about whose embarrassment and social rejection sit heavier, and if you see something small and unjust, point it the fuck out.
That's an athlete's action worth emulating. We've been seeing more of that lately, and it heartens me. That's all.
posted by sciatrix at 2:25 PM on April 17, 2018 [38 favorites]
We've all seen the footage -- angle on the nice guy hockey player trying to flip a puck to the little girl that was directly in front of him. But the villain of the piece -- he didn't have this angle. He perhaps didn't see the intention. He was just one more fan crowded up against the glass, celebrating a play-off goal.
I fault him for getting all grabby with the pucks in the first place, but wonder how we actually know what he was thinking when he passed them on to the little boys first.
We know because we have reams of social science research that shows the consequences of socialized misogyny. We know what happens to all of us who have been steeped in a society that tells us girls go last, and especially when it comes to traditionally male identified arenas (no pun intended) like sports. After the second puck, especially--we know.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 2:26 PM on April 17, 2018 [35 favorites]
I fault him for getting all grabby with the pucks in the first place, but wonder how we actually know what he was thinking when he passed them on to the little boys first.
We know because we have reams of social science research that shows the consequences of socialized misogyny. We know what happens to all of us who have been steeped in a society that tells us girls go last, and especially when it comes to traditionally male identified arenas (no pun intended) like sports. After the second puck, especially--we know.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 2:26 PM on April 17, 2018 [35 favorites]
If I have to respect a Washington Capital, at least I get to really hate one of their fans. Hats off to ya, Brett.
posted by whuppy at 2:33 PM on April 17, 2018 [5 favorites]
posted by whuppy at 2:33 PM on April 17, 2018 [5 favorites]
but wonder how we actually know what he was thinking when he passed them on to the little boys first.
Well... I suppose it’s possible that he was honestly worried that she had a severe puck allergy... I mean we don’t know...
posted by GenjiandProust at 2:40 PM on April 17, 2018 [19 favorites]
Well... I suppose it’s possible that he was honestly worried that she had a severe puck allergy... I mean we don’t know...
posted by GenjiandProust at 2:40 PM on April 17, 2018 [19 favorites]
but wonder how we actually know what he was thinking when he passed them on to the little boys first
because no one here was born yesterday, literally brand new to the human race. 3 billion women will tell you exactly what that man was thinking but it's still "i guess we'll never know, there's absolutely no evidence in human history to explain this!"
posted by poffin boffin at 2:52 PM on April 17, 2018 [108 favorites]
because no one here was born yesterday, literally brand new to the human race. 3 billion women will tell you exactly what that man was thinking but it's still "i guess we'll never know, there's absolutely no evidence in human history to explain this!"
posted by poffin boffin at 2:52 PM on April 17, 2018 [108 favorites]
"oh how can we know if it was ~*really*~ misogyny, or racism, or homo/transphobia!??" it is the year of our fucking lord two thousand and motherfucking eighteen. if you DON'T know that it is each of those things, all of those things, always, by now, by NOW, then you have chosen to ignore these things because they don't matter to you. the end. good day.
posted by poffin boffin at 2:55 PM on April 17, 2018 [68 favorites]
posted by poffin boffin at 2:55 PM on April 17, 2018 [68 favorites]
my fucking god. that child's face. i am done fooling around. fucking ban me because i will never shut up.
posted by poffin boffin at 2:56 PM on April 17, 2018 [47 favorites]
posted by poffin boffin at 2:56 PM on April 17, 2018 [47 favorites]
One of the most frightening features of patriarchal/racist/otherwise unjust systems is that they permit the oppressor to commit unjust actions and reap the benefits of oppression without bearing any personal animus against the oppressed. It's sort of like the system does the emotional labor for you, so that you can participate unthinkingly, unconsciously, without suffering the psychological consequences of treating another person unfairly.
I would not be surprised if the thought, "little girls aren't supposed to be involved in hockey and I need to show her that" never even came *close* to entering this guy's conscious thought process.
posted by Vic Morrow's Personal Vietnam at 2:56 PM on April 17, 2018 [52 favorites]
I would not be surprised if the thought, "little girls aren't supposed to be involved in hockey and I need to show her that" never even came *close* to entering this guy's conscious thought process.
posted by Vic Morrow's Personal Vietnam at 2:56 PM on April 17, 2018 [52 favorites]
I saw that yesterday. It was so obviously intentional from the misogynistic douchebag, and watching her face fall and yet suck it up as if to say "yes, again, I don't get what I want" and then she just explodes with such unexpected and delirious happiness. But that guy [ the rest of this comment elided for necessary roughness ]
posted by seanmpuckett at 3:01 PM on April 17, 2018 [7 favorites]
posted by seanmpuckett at 3:01 PM on April 17, 2018 [7 favorites]
I realize it's the internet and we're all Judge Dredd here but well, no, we don't know that.
We've all seen the footage -- angle on the nice guy hockey player trying to flip a puck to the little girl that was directly in front of him. But the villain of the piece -- he didn't have this angle. He perhaps didn't see the intention. He was just one more fan crowded up against the glass, celebrating a play-off goal.
No.
He gave two pucks in a row to the male children on either side of where the hockey player was tossing said pucks. Only when he ran out of male children to give pucks to did he give one to the little girl. If you can't see clearly what happened here, you have obviously never been a little girl who likes sports.
posted by WalkerWestridge at 3:23 PM on April 17, 2018 [74 favorites]
We've all seen the footage -- angle on the nice guy hockey player trying to flip a puck to the little girl that was directly in front of him. But the villain of the piece -- he didn't have this angle. He perhaps didn't see the intention. He was just one more fan crowded up against the glass, celebrating a play-off goal.
No.
He gave two pucks in a row to the male children on either side of where the hockey player was tossing said pucks. Only when he ran out of male children to give pucks to did he give one to the little girl. If you can't see clearly what happened here, you have obviously never been a little girl who likes sports.
posted by WalkerWestridge at 3:23 PM on April 17, 2018 [74 favorites]
I would not be surprised if the thought, "little girls aren't supposed to be involved in hockey and I need to show her that" never even came *close* to entering this guy's conscious thought process.
And just to clarify, that *is* what he was thinking. ...But I suspect that the thought was not consciously recognized. The water we swim in, as mentioned above.
(Which is how we get white people saying that they are not racist because they define 'racism' as a personal, consciously acknowledged ill will against other races. One of the luxuries of an oppressive system is that I can feel neutral or even positive about the oppressed -- and still benefit from their exploitation.)
posted by Vic Morrow's Personal Vietnam at 3:23 PM on April 17, 2018 [34 favorites]
And just to clarify, that *is* what he was thinking. ...But I suspect that the thought was not consciously recognized. The water we swim in, as mentioned above.
(Which is how we get white people saying that they are not racist because they define 'racism' as a personal, consciously acknowledged ill will against other races. One of the luxuries of an oppressive system is that I can feel neutral or even positive about the oppressed -- and still benefit from their exploitation.)
posted by Vic Morrow's Personal Vietnam at 3:23 PM on April 17, 2018 [34 favorites]
Here's the other thing: I get the impulse from some men to worry about intent, because that seems to be the thing most obviously under one's own control. I get the impulse to worry because if that man can come under so much ire for something he isn't consciously or willfully doing, what about me and the mistakes I might make?
What this oh-so-reasonable worried line of thought does, though, is a whole lot of evil--and, men, it has a cumulative effect of increasing the ire of women, not dampening it. If you do make such an error, you will go a long way by owning the error and apologizing for it; we know, by and large, that many people who do harmful things may not intend to. Indeed, people condemning this man are generally not condemning his intentions; they're condemning the harm he is doing and discussing the consequences of his actions.
Men, here are the effects when you recenter the conversation around intent rather than action:
You provide cover for actual cases of malice. This rhetoric is what people who do deliberately engage in hostile sexism hide behind to escape censure for their actions. Consider any misogynist you can think of, whatever your line in the sand for such a person is: would they benefit from this slant in questioning?
You redirect the conversation to the feelings of a perpetrator, not the victim. One of the first conversations I was ever part of here on Metafilter centered on that topic, did you know? It was a conversation in which I was talking about rape, not this much milder expression of sexism, but it's the same thing writ small. You convey the message: "I care much more about the consequences of men being publicly discussed as sexist than I care about the consequences of that sexism." See what I just said about muddying the waters for malicious actors--do you see how that emboldens and encourages them? Do you see how that might read as even more hurtful and exhausting to women?
Which brings me to my third consequence:
You inflame the tempers of tired women and draw more anger to yourself, not less. We are saying "this man, he hurt that little girl with his actions," and when you scrabble to disclaim that the man's intent probably wasn't harm, we hear "The fact that he hurt her is less important than whether his feelings are hurt by being told hurting her was wrong." We hear "I am more concerned with the feelings of this grown-ass man than the feelings of the six-year-old girl he ran roughshod over." We hear, when we point out the cumulative effect of many such incidents, that you care more about the feelings of many grown-ass men who should be adults responsible for their own actions than the feelings of many people who were once small girls treated badly, people who have grown into adult women who are still treated badly in similar ways.
So in expressing your fear and your discomfort, in case you fuck up in the future and someone yells at you, you actively draw the ire of women around you by insulting us. You increase the odds that a woman around you will feel that it's worth it to yell at you right now, because you go from uncomfortable silence to actively insulting women who discuss the impacts of this kind of casual sexism. And you would deserve it, because you prioritized your fear and discomfort--your feelings about whether you might behave like the person who hurt the feelings of a six-year-old--over the people who have been that six-year-old, experiencing those paper cuts over and over again over decades.
If you are uncomfortable because you identify so strongly with the man in this scenario who rode roughshod over a little girl, not with the man in this scenario who stood up and pointed out her joy and insisted she be recognized, I am sorry for you. That's an uncomfortable thing to realize about yourself and how you judge your own actions. It sucks. It is also not anything I can do something about, and soothing your discomfort is not the job of women.
Go sit with that feeling in silence and think about it, then. Think about how you can do better, or think about why you don't. Make that feeling your own problem, not the problem of women talking about our experiences and frustration and lives and glorying in the delight of a small child who did, in the end, actually get her fucking puck.
That's luckier than a lot of us have been.
posted by sciatrix at 3:38 PM on April 17, 2018 [225 favorites]
What this oh-so-reasonable worried line of thought does, though, is a whole lot of evil--and, men, it has a cumulative effect of increasing the ire of women, not dampening it. If you do make such an error, you will go a long way by owning the error and apologizing for it; we know, by and large, that many people who do harmful things may not intend to. Indeed, people condemning this man are generally not condemning his intentions; they're condemning the harm he is doing and discussing the consequences of his actions.
Men, here are the effects when you recenter the conversation around intent rather than action:
You provide cover for actual cases of malice. This rhetoric is what people who do deliberately engage in hostile sexism hide behind to escape censure for their actions. Consider any misogynist you can think of, whatever your line in the sand for such a person is: would they benefit from this slant in questioning?
You redirect the conversation to the feelings of a perpetrator, not the victim. One of the first conversations I was ever part of here on Metafilter centered on that topic, did you know? It was a conversation in which I was talking about rape, not this much milder expression of sexism, but it's the same thing writ small. You convey the message: "I care much more about the consequences of men being publicly discussed as sexist than I care about the consequences of that sexism." See what I just said about muddying the waters for malicious actors--do you see how that emboldens and encourages them? Do you see how that might read as even more hurtful and exhausting to women?
Which brings me to my third consequence:
You inflame the tempers of tired women and draw more anger to yourself, not less. We are saying "this man, he hurt that little girl with his actions," and when you scrabble to disclaim that the man's intent probably wasn't harm, we hear "The fact that he hurt her is less important than whether his feelings are hurt by being told hurting her was wrong." We hear "I am more concerned with the feelings of this grown-ass man than the feelings of the six-year-old girl he ran roughshod over." We hear, when we point out the cumulative effect of many such incidents, that you care more about the feelings of many grown-ass men who should be adults responsible for their own actions than the feelings of many people who were once small girls treated badly, people who have grown into adult women who are still treated badly in similar ways.
So in expressing your fear and your discomfort, in case you fuck up in the future and someone yells at you, you actively draw the ire of women around you by insulting us. You increase the odds that a woman around you will feel that it's worth it to yell at you right now, because you go from uncomfortable silence to actively insulting women who discuss the impacts of this kind of casual sexism. And you would deserve it, because you prioritized your fear and discomfort--your feelings about whether you might behave like the person who hurt the feelings of a six-year-old--over the people who have been that six-year-old, experiencing those paper cuts over and over again over decades.
If you are uncomfortable because you identify so strongly with the man in this scenario who rode roughshod over a little girl, not with the man in this scenario who stood up and pointed out her joy and insisted she be recognized, I am sorry for you. That's an uncomfortable thing to realize about yourself and how you judge your own actions. It sucks. It is also not anything I can do something about, and soothing your discomfort is not the job of women.
Go sit with that feeling in silence and think about it, then. Think about how you can do better, or think about why you don't. Make that feeling your own problem, not the problem of women talking about our experiences and frustration and lives and glorying in the delight of a small child who did, in the end, actually get her fucking puck.
That's luckier than a lot of us have been.
posted by sciatrix at 3:38 PM on April 17, 2018 [225 favorites]
I'm glad it worked out in the end for her, but fuck, what a thing to model and the perfect example of internalized male privilege. Yuck.
posted by Fizz at 3:55 PM on April 17, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by Fizz at 3:55 PM on April 17, 2018 [1 favorite]
I've linked to Jay Smoove's video about the distinction between the "what they are" and "what they did" conversation a bunch of times, and I still think it's worth watching, but even in that video he's clear that it's a strategy, not an exoneration.
We really need to move beyond that so that people can hear "the reason you did a bigoted thing was that you are a bigot" and not shut down as a result. In fact we'll have come a long way when other people don't automatically jump in to defend the perpetrator against the horrible, horrible prospect of examining their motives.
posted by Joe in Australia at 3:55 PM on April 17, 2018 [3 favorites]
We really need to move beyond that so that people can hear "the reason you did a bigoted thing was that you are a bigot" and not shut down as a result. In fact we'll have come a long way when other people don't automatically jump in to defend the perpetrator against the horrible, horrible prospect of examining their motives.
posted by Joe in Australia at 3:55 PM on April 17, 2018 [3 favorites]
It's just so careless.
Oh, I don't think it was at all careless.
posted by jeather at 3:56 PM on April 17, 2018 [8 favorites]
Oh, I don't think it was at all careless.
posted by jeather at 3:56 PM on April 17, 2018 [8 favorites]
(sound of blood vessels bursting in my head)
posted by aramaic at 4:04 PM on April 17, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by aramaic at 4:04 PM on April 17, 2018 [3 favorites]
Comment flagged as awesome, sciatrix. Thank you for expressing it so clearly and sharply.
Also, from the update to the Deadspin article:
Points to Connolly. I thought he was about to come through the plexiglass by puck 3.
posted by Lexica at 4:42 PM on April 17, 2018 [26 favorites]
Also, from the update to the Deadspin article:
Anyhow, my guess is that the guy who caught all 3 pucks knows how this sorta thing works and was just being nice handing the pucks out to the kids who happened to be in front of him...and he probably knew from previous experience that the Caps player, in this case Brett Connolly, wasn’t going to stop until the girl got her puck.Nah, that's bogus. He knew what he was doing, which was giving the pucks to the boys.
Points to Connolly. I thought he was about to come through the plexiglass by puck 3.
posted by Lexica at 4:42 PM on April 17, 2018 [26 favorites]
If you are uncomfortable because you identify so strongly with the man in this scenario who rode roughshod over a little girl, not with the man in this scenario who stood up and pointed out her joy and insisted she be recognized, I am sorry for you.
it's possible I just feel that this guy (have we even heard his side of the story yet?) has done a comparatively minor thing (didn't give a little girl a hockey puck), which, even if it was one hundred percent intentional ("little girls aren't supposed to be involved in hockey and I need to show her that") is not really deserving of the kind of the international vilification/condemnation he's now getting.
posted by philip-random at 5:16 PM on April 17, 2018 [2 favorites]
it's possible I just feel that this guy (have we even heard his side of the story yet?) has done a comparatively minor thing (didn't give a little girl a hockey puck), which, even if it was one hundred percent intentional ("little girls aren't supposed to be involved in hockey and I need to show her that") is not really deserving of the kind of the international vilification/condemnation he's now getting.
posted by philip-random at 5:16 PM on April 17, 2018 [2 favorites]
And doulbling down on what people have explained is unacceptable just makes it worse.
posted by WalkerWestridge at 5:22 PM on April 17, 2018 [34 favorites]
posted by WalkerWestridge at 5:22 PM on April 17, 2018 [34 favorites]
not really deserving of the kind of the international vilification/condemnation he's now getting.
This is what happens when anything resembling enforcement/anything-actually-happening is rare as hen's teeth. You catch an opportunity and you hold onto it. See also, when something catches the zeitgeist just right and someone's GoFundMe gets hundreds of thousands of dollars more than they needed, when there's a thousand other just-as-merited people out there. Scale is tricky at the sort of amplification that we're at culturally right now. I can see that as a point in the abstract.
But ultimately, does that matter though? I mean, practically. You're coming here and saying "Nah, this didn't deserve this response" when nobody's involvement is (near as I know) rising to any level of sanctionable and I'm not even sure that the aggregate is either. Women get thousands of death threats funneled their way for far less. What's the harm he's facing here? We don't even know the guy's name, so it's not even like this is going to be associated with Googling him for the next decade. Nobody's trying to get him fired. The general-media focus doesn't even seem to be on "This guy is a dick" as much as "Aww, isn't this cute".
Like, this is about as no-cost of "international vilification/condemnation" as I could imagine. But yet you're still equivocating & minimizing what he's doing as much as possible and playing up the response to unfounded levels. And I've got to wonder why that is.
posted by CrystalDave at 5:35 PM on April 17, 2018 [53 favorites]
This is what happens when anything resembling enforcement/anything-actually-happening is rare as hen's teeth. You catch an opportunity and you hold onto it. See also, when something catches the zeitgeist just right and someone's GoFundMe gets hundreds of thousands of dollars more than they needed, when there's a thousand other just-as-merited people out there. Scale is tricky at the sort of amplification that we're at culturally right now. I can see that as a point in the abstract.
But ultimately, does that matter though? I mean, practically. You're coming here and saying "Nah, this didn't deserve this response" when nobody's involvement is (near as I know) rising to any level of sanctionable and I'm not even sure that the aggregate is either. Women get thousands of death threats funneled their way for far less. What's the harm he's facing here? We don't even know the guy's name, so it's not even like this is going to be associated with Googling him for the next decade. Nobody's trying to get him fired. The general-media focus doesn't even seem to be on "This guy is a dick" as much as "Aww, isn't this cute".
Like, this is about as no-cost of "international vilification/condemnation" as I could imagine. But yet you're still equivocating & minimizing what he's doing as much as possible and playing up the response to unfounded levels. And I've got to wonder why that is.
posted by CrystalDave at 5:35 PM on April 17, 2018 [53 favorites]
Maybe this guy and this one thing aren’t the worst. But it’s an easily perceived, astonishingly unfair and yet still so common micro aggression that was so well and clearly captured by this few moments of video that it is standing in for millions of other events just like it, and many more immeasurably worse. It’s a lightning rod for rage of centuries of patriarchal bullshit. Maybe the guy doesn’t deserve a punch in the nose for this one transgression, but on the other hand, all the little girls across space and time who have ever shown that exact same face of keen anticipation, crushed hopes, repressed sadness and resigned acceptance — because they’re getting hosed yet again and there’s nothing they can do about it — deserve to feel that blazing joy of justice delivered by someone who gives a shit.
It’s a thing we can point to and say: this is wrong, thit is why, and here’s how we can fight it.
posted by seanmpuckett at 5:36 PM on April 17, 2018 [34 favorites]
It’s a thing we can point to and say: this is wrong, thit is why, and here’s how we can fight it.
posted by seanmpuckett at 5:36 PM on April 17, 2018 [34 favorites]
Kudos to Connolly.
When I was a child, a group of boys and girls were invited onstage for a balloon blowing contest. My brother and I were among the selected kids. I was the first child to explode my balloon, so I was given first prize. It was a really cool large model car with working doors and a removable engine. I just loved it and took out the engine and went crazy with my prize. I couldn't figure out why the man who gave me the prize onstage looked so perplexed at the time.
My parents were ashamed that I had won. My brother was insane with jealousy, and eventually pushed me down a flight of stairs while I was racing the car. It was eventually taken away from me by my mother as an inappropriate toy for a girl.
I was so confused that winning the car was such a conflicted experience because of the social fallout. I feel a lot of solidarity for the little girl, and also Sally Yates, Loretta Lynch, and HRC. Break that glass.
posted by effluvia at 5:39 PM on April 17, 2018 [107 favorites]
When I was a child, a group of boys and girls were invited onstage for a balloon blowing contest. My brother and I were among the selected kids. I was the first child to explode my balloon, so I was given first prize. It was a really cool large model car with working doors and a removable engine. I just loved it and took out the engine and went crazy with my prize. I couldn't figure out why the man who gave me the prize onstage looked so perplexed at the time.
My parents were ashamed that I had won. My brother was insane with jealousy, and eventually pushed me down a flight of stairs while I was racing the car. It was eventually taken away from me by my mother as an inappropriate toy for a girl.
I was so confused that winning the car was such a conflicted experience because of the social fallout. I feel a lot of solidarity for the little girl, and also Sally Yates, Loretta Lynch, and HRC. Break that glass.
posted by effluvia at 5:39 PM on April 17, 2018 [107 favorites]
I think this video is going to be around for a historically long time. If you cut the "getting another puck" parts, it's a quick, perfect display in public of something that some people want to claim doesn't exist. There will be thinkpieces and theses. Awesome.
posted by sylvanshine at 5:41 PM on April 17, 2018 [5 favorites]
posted by sylvanshine at 5:41 PM on April 17, 2018 [5 favorites]
I'd bet Connolly had made direct eye contact with her prior to tossing the puck over.
He flipping taps his stick on the glass in front of her face! It's like if Babe Ruth pointed and then said, "Probably, like, Section 72, GG14."
He was just one more fan crowded up against the glass, celebrating a play-off goal.
Celebrating a...? This happened in warm-ups. That's why there are nine million pucks on the ice and Connolly had time to hand three of them out as souvenirs. The dude wasn't, like, caught up in the moment and inflamed by passion.
posted by Snarl Furillo at 6:01 PM on April 17, 2018 [37 favorites]
He flipping taps his stick on the glass in front of her face! It's like if Babe Ruth pointed and then said, "Probably, like, Section 72, GG14."
He was just one more fan crowded up against the glass, celebrating a play-off goal.
Celebrating a...? This happened in warm-ups. That's why there are nine million pucks on the ice and Connolly had time to hand three of them out as souvenirs. The dude wasn't, like, caught up in the moment and inflamed by passion.
posted by Snarl Furillo at 6:01 PM on April 17, 2018 [37 favorites]
it's possible I just feel that this guy (have we even heard his side of the story yet?) has done a comparatively minor thing (didn't give a little girl a hockey puck), which, even if it was one hundred percent intentional ("little girls aren't supposed to be involved in hockey and I need to show her that") is not really deserving of the kind of the international vilification/condemnation he's now getting.
The thing is, in this particular situation, this is not just about this dude. He might be the guy who got caught in the act, but this sort of response to sexist behavior is a way of setting a clear standard for future behavior for all of us. I don't think this guy should necessarily be identified (in fact, its sort of more powerful if he remains unidentified) but I do think that we (especially, but not limited to, men) pause and ask ourselves "do I do stuff like this? Am I aware when I do? Can I make a conscious effort not to behave like this?"
The size of the response is part of this process. We should all, ideally, feel like "Oh jeez, I don't want to be that guy." Its not a crime to be kind of a unwitting dick, but if you find out you're being a dick (witting or otherwise), you should make an effort to stop being a dick.
posted by Joey Michaels at 6:07 PM on April 17, 2018 [18 favorites]
The thing is, in this particular situation, this is not just about this dude. He might be the guy who got caught in the act, but this sort of response to sexist behavior is a way of setting a clear standard for future behavior for all of us. I don't think this guy should necessarily be identified (in fact, its sort of more powerful if he remains unidentified) but I do think that we (especially, but not limited to, men) pause and ask ourselves "do I do stuff like this? Am I aware when I do? Can I make a conscious effort not to behave like this?"
The size of the response is part of this process. We should all, ideally, feel like "Oh jeez, I don't want to be that guy." Its not a crime to be kind of a unwitting dick, but if you find out you're being a dick (witting or otherwise), you should make an effort to stop being a dick.
posted by Joey Michaels at 6:07 PM on April 17, 2018 [18 favorites]
...a comparatively minor thing (didn't give a little girl a hockey puck), which, even if it was one hundred percent intentional...
The thing is, this one thing may be a comparatively minor thing, but this one thing does not exist in a vacuum. This one thing also exists in the context of the second link in the FPP, where the guy anchor says to the women anchors, "I certainly don't know why" this would happen. And the women anchors stare into the camera, mentally recounting all of the times it has happened to them. And the women who are viewing both the original video and the CBC account of it stare off into the middle distance, recounting all of the times it has happened to them. If thoughts and experiences could be weighed, this comparatively minor thing would weigh a whole hell of a lot more than you'd ever imagine it could.
And that's why this one comparatively minor thing, and the reaction to it, is a BIG thing.
I hope the guy doesn't get doxxed. I hope he doesn't get punched. I hope no physical harm comes to him. But I'm not sorry that he's being used as an example. Best case scenario, he learns from it. Worst case, he doubles down and insists it was no big deal, his intent was pure, no harm no foul, he's one of the good guys, he's not part of the capital-P Problem. Which is kinda what you're saying, and that's why people are pushing back.
posted by mudpuppie at 6:16 PM on April 17, 2018 [45 favorites]
The thing is, this one thing may be a comparatively minor thing, but this one thing does not exist in a vacuum. This one thing also exists in the context of the second link in the FPP, where the guy anchor says to the women anchors, "I certainly don't know why" this would happen. And the women anchors stare into the camera, mentally recounting all of the times it has happened to them. And the women who are viewing both the original video and the CBC account of it stare off into the middle distance, recounting all of the times it has happened to them. If thoughts and experiences could be weighed, this comparatively minor thing would weigh a whole hell of a lot more than you'd ever imagine it could.
And that's why this one comparatively minor thing, and the reaction to it, is a BIG thing.
I hope the guy doesn't get doxxed. I hope he doesn't get punched. I hope no physical harm comes to him. But I'm not sorry that he's being used as an example. Best case scenario, he learns from it. Worst case, he doubles down and insists it was no big deal, his intent was pure, no harm no foul, he's one of the good guys, he's not part of the capital-P Problem. Which is kinda what you're saying, and that's why people are pushing back.
posted by mudpuppie at 6:16 PM on April 17, 2018 [45 favorites]
But yet you're still equivocating & minimizing what he's doing as much as possible and playing up the response to unfounded levels. And I've got to wonder why that is.
from very early in the thread:
[Couple comments deleted; let's skip the murdery talk, it's landing badly for enough people that it'll end up a derail.]
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 2:00 PM on April 17
I didn't see these comments, but assumed the murdery talk was aimed at the "evil" dad in question. Otherwise, I'm not really opposed to anything I've read in this thread. I hear the frustration, the rage etc. I'm glad the little girl got a puck. I wish she'd got the first one.
Scale is tricky at the sort of amplification that we're at culturally right now. I can see that as a point in the abstract.
This is more where I'm coming from. Social media just feels increasingly poisonous by the day. Trial By Internet and all that.
posted by philip-random at 6:16 PM on April 17, 2018 [2 favorites]
from very early in the thread:
[Couple comments deleted; let's skip the murdery talk, it's landing badly for enough people that it'll end up a derail.]
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 2:00 PM on April 17
I didn't see these comments, but assumed the murdery talk was aimed at the "evil" dad in question. Otherwise, I'm not really opposed to anything I've read in this thread. I hear the frustration, the rage etc. I'm glad the little girl got a puck. I wish she'd got the first one.
Scale is tricky at the sort of amplification that we're at culturally right now. I can see that as a point in the abstract.
This is more where I'm coming from. Social media just feels increasingly poisonous by the day. Trial By Internet and all that.
posted by philip-random at 6:16 PM on April 17, 2018 [2 favorites]
> Social media just feels increasingly poisonous by the day.
And once upon a time ten minutes ago this guy and all the ones just like him who have done exactly what he did would have just kept on doing it, while all the hockey-mad little girls just kept being taught that they go last, if at all.
I mean, do you hear yourself? Did you read sciatrix's comment above, about what comments like yours do, what they add to, what they defend? Think about what you're deciding to put the emphasis on, and why.
posted by rtha at 6:36 PM on April 17, 2018 [59 favorites]
And once upon a time ten minutes ago this guy and all the ones just like him who have done exactly what he did would have just kept on doing it, while all the hockey-mad little girls just kept being taught that they go last, if at all.
I mean, do you hear yourself? Did you read sciatrix's comment above, about what comments like yours do, what they add to, what they defend? Think about what you're deciding to put the emphasis on, and why.
posted by rtha at 6:36 PM on April 17, 2018 [59 favorites]
The first (and probably last) Worldcon I ever attended, I went to one of the most frustrating panels ever. The moderator was trying to be quite inclusive, but any time he would point to a woman (and in one notable instance a WOC) who had their hand raised, wouldn't you know it, a white guy would like intercept that point and ask his question. This feels exactly like that situation to me - those guys knew they weren't the ones being acknowledged, but they interfered anyway.
Also, if that dad was just selflessly distributing pucks without any thought of gender, as boy #2's mom claims, why didn't boy #2's sister, standing to his-left, our-right, get a puck?
posted by muddgirl at 6:40 PM on April 17, 2018 [16 favorites]
Also, if that dad was just selflessly distributing pucks without any thought of gender, as boy #2's mom claims, why didn't boy #2's sister, standing to his-left, our-right, get a puck?
posted by muddgirl at 6:40 PM on April 17, 2018 [16 favorites]
Social media just feels increasingly poisonous by the day
It would feel like that I guess, if you had never before identified with someone who was bullied, shamed, excluded, judged, had their privacy invaded, received death threats etc etc. But I assure you on the scale of serious social media harm this is certainly not an escalation.
posted by WalkerWestridge at 6:44 PM on April 17, 2018 [23 favorites]
It would feel like that I guess, if you had never before identified with someone who was bullied, shamed, excluded, judged, had their privacy invaded, received death threats etc etc. But I assure you on the scale of serious social media harm this is certainly not an escalation.
posted by WalkerWestridge at 6:44 PM on April 17, 2018 [23 favorites]
And what that little girl has now learnt is that she might get what's due to her, if she's very lucky, but only if all the males are looked after first and then she will be expected to smile and feel lucky that she got it at all. Meanwhile we're teaching boys that everything belongs to them, and even if it doesn't, screw it, just take it anyway. No one's going to care or stop you and some will even celebrate it or pretend it never happened.
posted by Jubey at 6:50 PM on April 17, 2018 [23 favorites]
posted by Jubey at 6:50 PM on April 17, 2018 [23 favorites]
philip-random: if you feel social media is increasingly poisonous and irritation with this man is a symptom, read my fucking comment again.
I was very clear about why this desire to focus on the intercepting man's intent doesn't diminish online criticism, it fuels it. It makes us angrier.
Sit down and listen.
posted by sciatrix at 6:58 PM on April 17, 2018 [55 favorites]
I was very clear about why this desire to focus on the intercepting man's intent doesn't diminish online criticism, it fuels it. It makes us angrier.
Sit down and listen.
posted by sciatrix at 6:58 PM on April 17, 2018 [55 favorites]
And it's worth noting that neither of the boys gave the pucks to her either once it was given to them. They were both right there. They could see the interaction with the player and both see that the puck was meant for her each time. But neither of them gave it to her; they each kept it for themselves without any thought at all about her feelings.
It's almost as if there's a theme here.
posted by urbanlenny at 6:59 PM on April 17, 2018 [44 favorites]
It's almost as if there's a theme here.
posted by urbanlenny at 6:59 PM on April 17, 2018 [44 favorites]
"I'm one racist/sexist twitter post away from going on a murderous rampage."
philip-random : I didn't see these comments, but assumed the murdery talk was aimed at the "evil" dad in question.
You know what they say about when you assume.
I didn't see the deleted comments either but from the context, I interpreted it to mean that the avalanche of sexism in society at large makes people angry enough to yell and scream and make a scene. It also appears to me that you are looking for any avenue to sympathize with or excuse the behavior of that man and that you really aren't interested in anything any of the women here have to say about institutional sexism. It makes me both angry at and sad for you.
posted by pointystick at 7:04 PM on April 17, 2018 [11 favorites]
philip-random : I didn't see these comments, but assumed the murdery talk was aimed at the "evil" dad in question.
You know what they say about when you assume.
I didn't see the deleted comments either but from the context, I interpreted it to mean that the avalanche of sexism in society at large makes people angry enough to yell and scream and make a scene. It also appears to me that you are looking for any avenue to sympathize with or excuse the behavior of that man and that you really aren't interested in anything any of the women here have to say about institutional sexism. It makes me both angry at and sad for you.
posted by pointystick at 7:04 PM on April 17, 2018 [11 favorites]
I almost didn't post this, I don't think metafilter is a place for "this is a thing that will make you mad!!"
Fry-not-sure-if-serious.jpg
posted by some loser at 7:07 PM on April 17, 2018 [3 favorites]
Fry-not-sure-if-serious.jpg
posted by some loser at 7:07 PM on April 17, 2018 [3 favorites]
Sorry everybody, I know we've got a video demonstrating a painful reality that half the world experiences and yet is constantly dismissed as not actually happening or not that big of a deal, but somewhere out there there may be an unidentified white dude who thinks he's being unfairly blamed for his part in it, even if nobody disputes that he has a part in it. We're just gonna have to stop this train right now and switch tracks back to centering-white-dude-feelings-ville.
posted by tocts at 7:09 PM on April 17, 2018 [59 favorites]
posted by tocts at 7:09 PM on April 17, 2018 [59 favorites]
Lauren (the girl's mother) said. "She's an only child. We didn't know the other people around us."
Let's just process this as a set of actions that I saw.
Player points to Small Girl and throws puck
Man Who Did Not Know SG points to Boy To The Right of SG as Player throws puck.
MWDNKSG intercepts puck destined for SG (effectively 'taking away' the puck) and gives the puck to BTTR.
At this point one might argue that MWDNKSG was hyper focused on BTTR and missed SG.
Player circles back and makes a pointed effort to indicate puck is for SG
MWDNKSG AGAIN intercepts puck destined for SG (effectively 'taking away' the puck) and gives the puck to Boy To The Left of SG.
Here's where my pitchfork comes out, and I can find no room in my heart for mistakes.
This man stole the puck TWICE and had ZERO connection to the person giving or the person who the puck was destined for.
Simply a thief. Initially perhaps by accident, but the thievery has no wiggle room the 2nd time.
posted by CheapB at 7:16 PM on April 17, 2018 [25 favorites]
Let's just process this as a set of actions that I saw.
Player points to Small Girl and throws puck
Man Who Did Not Know SG points to Boy To The Right of SG as Player throws puck.
MWDNKSG intercepts puck destined for SG (effectively 'taking away' the puck) and gives the puck to BTTR.
At this point one might argue that MWDNKSG was hyper focused on BTTR and missed SG.
Player circles back and makes a pointed effort to indicate puck is for SG
MWDNKSG AGAIN intercepts puck destined for SG (effectively 'taking away' the puck) and gives the puck to Boy To The Left of SG.
Here's where my pitchfork comes out, and I can find no room in my heart for mistakes.
This man stole the puck TWICE and had ZERO connection to the person giving or the person who the puck was destined for.
Simply a thief. Initially perhaps by accident, but the thievery has no wiggle room the 2nd time.
posted by CheapB at 7:16 PM on April 17, 2018 [25 favorites]
I didn't see these comments, but assumed
I read 'em. Your assumption is incorrect.
So you have failed to engage with the actual facts of what's happened in the video clip, and also failed to engage with what people are saying in their comments here.
You really sure you have something worthwhile to say? Really super extra sure?
posted by the man of twists and turns at 7:18 PM on April 17, 2018 [24 favorites]
I read 'em. Your assumption is incorrect.
So you have failed to engage with the actual facts of what's happened in the video clip, and also failed to engage with what people are saying in their comments here.
You really sure you have something worthwhile to say? Really super extra sure?
posted by the man of twists and turns at 7:18 PM on April 17, 2018 [24 favorites]
Women responding in the original Twitter video thread:
"When I was 14 I got hit in the head with a puck at a @penguins game. A grown ass man picked it up and refused to give it to me. The other fans yelled at him so he left. With the puck lol. A nice EMT gave me a new puck from the equipment room."
"I was at a hockey game, on Girl Scout night, in uniform, and they slingshotted T-shirt’s. I caught it, but the grown ass man behind me caught my arm, and bent it under the seat and kept twisting until I, a child and a Girl Scout, let go because it was either that or a broken arm."
posted by nicebookrack at 7:35 PM on April 17, 2018 [49 favorites]
"When I was 14 I got hit in the head with a puck at a @penguins game. A grown ass man picked it up and refused to give it to me. The other fans yelled at him so he left. With the puck lol. A nice EMT gave me a new puck from the equipment room."
"I was at a hockey game, on Girl Scout night, in uniform, and they slingshotted T-shirt’s. I caught it, but the grown ass man behind me caught my arm, and bent it under the seat and kept twisting until I, a child and a Girl Scout, let go because it was either that or a broken arm."
posted by nicebookrack at 7:35 PM on April 17, 2018 [49 favorites]
my participation in this thread has raised the anger level.
I'm sorry for this and will endeavor to be more sensitive in this regard in future.
posted by philip-random at 8:10 PM on April 17, 2018 [4 favorites]
I'm sorry for this and will endeavor to be more sensitive in this regard in future.
posted by philip-random at 8:10 PM on April 17, 2018 [4 favorites]
The little girl is between his two boys. He's paying attention to the player, he sees that the player is going to toss a puck, so he should see who the player's pointing to.
The only way the puck catching man "doesn't see" the girl is if she's invisible.
This isn't "anti-male." This is simply calling out bad behavior. The player looked directly at her, made eye contact, tossed the puck her way, and he stole it.
In some respects, he was actually worse than the woman you linked, because the foul ball wasn't *intended* for the child, but the puck was.
posted by explosion at 8:11 PM on April 17, 2018 [7 favorites]
The only way the puck catching man "doesn't see" the girl is if she's invisible.
This isn't "anti-male." This is simply calling out bad behavior. The player looked directly at her, made eye contact, tossed the puck her way, and he stole it.
In some respects, he was actually worse than the woman you linked, because the foul ball wasn't *intended* for the child, but the puck was.
posted by explosion at 8:11 PM on April 17, 2018 [7 favorites]
Mod note: Reload the page, flag, and move on, please.
posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 8:22 PM on April 17, 2018
posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 8:22 PM on April 17, 2018
Thank you for putting this together. When I saw people sharing the video and being all “awww, how cute!!”, I was like ... did we watch the same thing??
The other day I was at the museum with my daughter who is almost 2. She was playing with a block on a table when a little boy who was maybe 7 came over and built a tower with all of the other blocks on the table. Then he tells my daughter, you should share because I need that for my tower. And I didn’t say anything because my daughter is almost 2 and I’ve seen her at daycare and god help the kid who comes between her and her favorite toys but I keep asking myself if I should have said something. My daughter let him have the block and then said to me excitedly, I shared the blocks! And this little boy is like, yeah, sharing is good, you should share. And now I’m worried that I’ve implied that giving a boy all of the blocks so she doesn’t get any is what I want her to do.
posted by kat518 at 8:35 PM on April 17, 2018 [15 favorites]
The other day I was at the museum with my daughter who is almost 2. She was playing with a block on a table when a little boy who was maybe 7 came over and built a tower with all of the other blocks on the table. Then he tells my daughter, you should share because I need that for my tower. And I didn’t say anything because my daughter is almost 2 and I’ve seen her at daycare and god help the kid who comes between her and her favorite toys but I keep asking myself if I should have said something. My daughter let him have the block and then said to me excitedly, I shared the blocks! And this little boy is like, yeah, sharing is good, you should share. And now I’m worried that I’ve implied that giving a boy all of the blocks so she doesn’t get any is what I want her to do.
posted by kat518 at 8:35 PM on April 17, 2018 [15 favorites]
If you've reached pathological Ma Ingalls-levels of Sharing Is Virtuous a la "Laura, it's selfish to NOT literally give away your only doll to a screaming stranger brat who'll abandon it in a mud puddle," then you know you've gone too far.
posted by nicebookrack at 8:48 PM on April 17, 2018 [14 favorites]
posted by nicebookrack at 8:48 PM on April 17, 2018 [14 favorites]
She was invisible. To him.
posted by bq at 9:06 PM on April 17, 2018 [9 favorites]
posted by bq at 9:06 PM on April 17, 2018 [9 favorites]
Was that Brett Connolly or was it National Treasure Brett Connolly?
posted by I paid money to offer this... insight? at 11:27 PM on April 17, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by I paid money to offer this... insight? at 11:27 PM on April 17, 2018 [2 favorites]
anger's great. i'm not sorry i'm angry. i'm only sorry that my eyes aren't equipped with lasers that can travel into the video to reduce that man to a charred husk of his former self, but aren't we all?
posted by yaymukund at 1:17 AM on April 18, 2018 [10 favorites]
posted by yaymukund at 1:17 AM on April 18, 2018 [10 favorites]
Same shit, different sport:
A fare gave me two tickets to the Asheville Tourists opening game. 10 lost her mom last year and doesn't particularly like baseball but she is always up for one on one time with me. Neither of us had been to a game before. Her dad is in prison.
So we ate gourmet hot dogs and the game tied at 4 to 4 and went into extra innings and was as boring as I expected. We were talking and not paying attention and she caught a foul with her farm-calloused hands. The thing that got our attention was people trying to reach around her. She pushed right back. A boy maybe 5 years older tried to pry it from her and she wasn't having it. Do you see this shit? Kid backed off when I stood up.
Then she threw it back on the field. Boy called her a stupid girl. She said she got straight A's and he was a tuckfard. He turned red. We left. I'm proud of her. Told her that was just the absolute perfect thing to do. Five years ago she was really meek. Been working on that.
posted by Mr. Yuck at 4:33 AM on April 18, 2018 [30 favorites]
A fare gave me two tickets to the Asheville Tourists opening game. 10 lost her mom last year and doesn't particularly like baseball but she is always up for one on one time with me. Neither of us had been to a game before. Her dad is in prison.
So we ate gourmet hot dogs and the game tied at 4 to 4 and went into extra innings and was as boring as I expected. We were talking and not paying attention and she caught a foul with her farm-calloused hands. The thing that got our attention was people trying to reach around her. She pushed right back. A boy maybe 5 years older tried to pry it from her and she wasn't having it. Do you see this shit? Kid backed off when I stood up.
Then she threw it back on the field. Boy called her a stupid girl. She said she got straight A's and he was a tuckfard. He turned red. We left. I'm proud of her. Told her that was just the absolute perfect thing to do. Five years ago she was really meek. Been working on that.
posted by Mr. Yuck at 4:33 AM on April 18, 2018 [30 favorites]
Dear god people are awful. That Twitter thread.
Mansplainer: “we have no idea what that guy was thinking, he’s probably the dad and was getting pucks for every one of his kids”
Mom: “that is my child, she has no siblings, her dad was sitting 7 rows away”
Mansplainer: “WE CAN NEVER KNOW WHAT THE REAL SITUATION WAS”
Guy jumps in to make like 10 comments but can’t be arsed to actually read through to find context or recognize when he’s wrong. The video, the thread, it is all you need to see to understand gender bias and male toxicity.
If my son grows up to be an asshole, I will never forgive myself.
posted by caution live frogs at 5:14 AM on April 18, 2018 [23 favorites]
Mansplainer: “we have no idea what that guy was thinking, he’s probably the dad and was getting pucks for every one of his kids”
Mom: “that is my child, she has no siblings, her dad was sitting 7 rows away”
Mansplainer: “WE CAN NEVER KNOW WHAT THE REAL SITUATION WAS”
Guy jumps in to make like 10 comments but can’t be arsed to actually read through to find context or recognize when he’s wrong. The video, the thread, it is all you need to see to understand gender bias and male toxicity.
If my son grows up to be an asshole, I will never forgive myself.
posted by caution live frogs at 5:14 AM on April 18, 2018 [23 favorites]
That video is sickening. Thanks sciatrix; your comment above says things so eloquently. A small shout out to Brett Connolly for just calmly circling (twice) to keep picking up pucks until she got one without engaging with the Bad Man in the Stands - the tapping on the glass - she knew all 3 were for her.
posted by parki at 5:28 AM on April 18, 2018 [5 favorites]
posted by parki at 5:28 AM on April 18, 2018 [5 favorites]
One of the reasons to talk about intent is *not* to argue that misogyny, racism, and other forms of prejudice are only present when intent is present--it's clearly as shitty to the victim and to the situation, regardless of the unknowables inside that guy's head.
But it does serve a purpose to discuss how prejudices can be unconscious if we use that as an illustration of how we ourselves can be prejudiced. If I can look at this video, clearly see this guy doing something manifestly unfair and wrong, and *understand how I might have done something similar*, I can prevent myself from doing that in the future.
If I look at this and see an irredeemable asshole who shares nothing with me but my gender, I have nothing to think about or to fix. Assholes gonna asshole, right?
So whether "intent matters" depends (1) upon how you define intent (must strictly be conscious or not), and (2) on what your objective is: assessing the impact on the immediate situation (intent doesn't matter, because the behavior is terrible, regardless), or explaining why he acted in this way (intent matters; he's either an irredeemable asshole or a potentially redeemable person who can't or didn't see his own misogyny).
posted by pykrete jungle at 5:51 AM on April 18, 2018 [3 favorites]
But it does serve a purpose to discuss how prejudices can be unconscious if we use that as an illustration of how we ourselves can be prejudiced. If I can look at this video, clearly see this guy doing something manifestly unfair and wrong, and *understand how I might have done something similar*, I can prevent myself from doing that in the future.
If I look at this and see an irredeemable asshole who shares nothing with me but my gender, I have nothing to think about or to fix. Assholes gonna asshole, right?
So whether "intent matters" depends (1) upon how you define intent (must strictly be conscious or not), and (2) on what your objective is: assessing the impact on the immediate situation (intent doesn't matter, because the behavior is terrible, regardless), or explaining why he acted in this way (intent matters; he's either an irredeemable asshole or a potentially redeemable person who can't or didn't see his own misogyny).
posted by pykrete jungle at 5:51 AM on April 18, 2018 [3 favorites]
As an aside, muddgirl, if you're still worldcon-oriented, I suspect that kind of stuff will be distinctly unwelcome at '76 in San Jose this year. The chair and concom will have little-to-no truck with that stuff.
posted by ChrisR at 7:29 AM on April 18, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by ChrisR at 7:29 AM on April 18, 2018 [2 favorites]
The little girl is between his two boys.
This isn't true, the dad of the second boy emailed Deadspin (see that article linked in an early comment above!) and they didn't know the dude stealing pucks. So that guy chose to steal the puck a second time and give it to a boy he didn't know, instead of a girl he didn't know who he DID know was the intended recipient. Stop defending that guy here. Plenty of commenters have explained why his actions were bad.
posted by leesh at 8:43 AM on April 18, 2018 [39 favorites]
This isn't true, the dad of the second boy emailed Deadspin (see that article linked in an early comment above!) and they didn't know the dude stealing pucks. So that guy chose to steal the puck a second time and give it to a boy he didn't know, instead of a girl he didn't know who he DID know was the intended recipient. Stop defending that guy here. Plenty of commenters have explained why his actions were bad.
posted by leesh at 8:43 AM on April 18, 2018 [39 favorites]
Yeah, intent is worthless as a metric, because intent can’t be measured (hell, it’s difficult for anyone to precisely measure their own intent, much less anyone else’s). If you cause harm without ill intent, that’s grist for you to evaluate your actions for their impact, not for other people to forgive your impact for your (stated) intent. So “I can’t be causing that impact because I don’t have that intent” needs to be replaced with “since I don’t want to be a creep, I need to monitor my impact and bring my actions in line with my intent.” Which is hard, but not doing it is worse.
posted by GenjiandProust at 9:00 AM on April 18, 2018 [7 favorites]
posted by GenjiandProust at 9:00 AM on April 18, 2018 [7 favorites]
Oh holy crap, that video clip has been making the rounds in front of hockey coverage and the "isn't it cute" viral video sections of local news for a few days here, and while I found it frustrating to watch more than anything, finding out that the guy grabbing the pucks and handing them off to the boys is just some bystander is rage-inducing.
I'm glad the CBC did an interview with her, and I hope the whole story makes some people examine their own biases.
posted by nubs at 9:17 AM on April 18, 2018 [3 favorites]
I'm glad the CBC did an interview with her, and I hope the whole story makes some people examine their own biases.
posted by nubs at 9:17 AM on April 18, 2018 [3 favorites]
Also, those boys needed to be taught in that moment by their Dad that what that other man was doing was damaging to a child younger than them and perpetuating the damage of a society that thinks it's okay to hurt and marginalize and pass her over because she's just a girl. No excuses. Do better next time.
posted by crush at 9:47 AM on April 18, 2018 [10 favorites]
posted by crush at 9:47 AM on April 18, 2018 [10 favorites]
Can someone explain to me how to use twitter? It says "We asked Keelan Moxley for her side of the story." But I don't see her answer anywhere. Is there someplace I can click to see what she said? Some people seem to be quoting her, so they can presumably see what she said.
This is what Twitter looks like for me. Am I missing vital UI elements because of noscript and other privacy extensions I'm using? Or am I just missing something?
Is that "pic.twitter.com" link supposed to take me to see what she said? When I click it, it just redirects me back to the page I screenshotted there.
posted by Galaxor Nebulon at 11:07 AM on April 18, 2018
This is what Twitter looks like for me. Am I missing vital UI elements because of noscript and other privacy extensions I'm using? Or am I just missing something?
Is that "pic.twitter.com" link supposed to take me to see what she said? When I click it, it just redirects me back to the page I screenshotted there.
posted by Galaxor Nebulon at 11:07 AM on April 18, 2018
You're absolutely missing something: the tweet contains an embedded video, not a still image, and that video contains the interview from Keelan Moxley. If you click the image, it should play the video.
posted by sciatrix at 11:21 AM on April 18, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by sciatrix at 11:21 AM on April 18, 2018 [1 favorite]
Hm. The image is not clickable for me. Javascript: enabled. Video: seen. Thanks!
posted by Galaxor Nebulon at 11:30 AM on April 18, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by Galaxor Nebulon at 11:30 AM on April 18, 2018 [1 favorite]
those boys needed to be taught in that moment
Yeah I'm sorry but the first little shit knew the puck was not for him and kept it. You can see it in his face. The second boy seemed a lot more morally conflicted.
posted by Tarumba at 11:52 AM on April 18, 2018 [12 favorites]
Yeah I'm sorry but the first little shit knew the puck was not for him and kept it. You can see it in his face. The second boy seemed a lot more morally conflicted.
posted by Tarumba at 11:52 AM on April 18, 2018 [12 favorites]
The second boy seemed a lot more morally conflicted.I'm not sure where you're getting that. I watched the video a few times just now, and he seems as happy as the first one once he gets his puck. If there's anything approaching a troubled look on his face, it's before he has a puck to enjoy.
posted by cardioid at 12:24 PM on April 19, 2018 [1 favorite]
NHL.com: Girl who got puck from Connolly to meet Capitals forward
Keelan Moxley, family will be guests of Washington owner for Game 5 against Blue Jacketsposted by ZeusHumms at 6:46 AM on April 20, 2018 [7 favorites]
What a lovely article!! Thank you for posting it.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 4:00 PM on April 20, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 4:00 PM on April 20, 2018 [2 favorites]
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At least Connolly was trying to do the right thing by her.
posted by mudpuppie at 1:16 PM on April 17, 2018 [90 favorites]