Palantir Knows Everything About You
April 19, 2018 11:18 AM Subscribe
Peter Thiel's secretive surveillance company, Palantir, has been linked recently to the Cambridge Analytica data scandal. Bloomberg BusinessWeek explores how Palantir was used by a team at JPMorgan to spy on employees and senior execs, how much data they can access on ordinary citizens, and how that data is used, including use by LAPD to "...monitor and stop the pre-crime suspects as often as possible, using excuses such as jaywalking or fix-it tickets."
Is it too late for the pitchforks and stakes? Citizen Guillotine?
posted by GenjiandProust at 11:30 AM on April 19, 2018 [6 favorites]
posted by GenjiandProust at 11:30 AM on April 19, 2018 [6 favorites]
This guy has a volcano laser, doesn't he.
posted by selfnoise at 11:33 AM on April 19, 2018 [6 favorites]
posted by selfnoise at 11:33 AM on April 19, 2018 [6 favorites]
Is it too late for the pitchforks and stakes? Citizen Guillotine?
Yeah, we’re going to have to deal with Uruk-Hai pouring put of Isengard soon - make sure somebody remembered to reforge the sword that was broken, raise Rohan, and send some hobbits to talk to Treebeard.
posted by Celsius1414 at 11:35 AM on April 19, 2018 [12 favorites]
Yeah, we’re going to have to deal with Uruk-Hai pouring put of Isengard soon - make sure somebody remembered to reforge the sword that was broken, raise Rohan, and send some hobbits to talk to Treebeard.
posted by Celsius1414 at 11:35 AM on April 19, 2018 [12 favorites]
Literally, the device that Sauron used to corrupt Saruman to evil. Are we surprised at how this turned out?
Peter Thiel is the Morrissey of the business world: a tiresome, attention-seeking little prat who sees the repulsion he arouses in others as a vindication of how special he is.
He's Richard III stripped of every ounce of imagination, wit or charm, until all that's left is a smirking bag of bad, boring, annoying ideas.
posted by howfar at 11:38 AM on April 19, 2018 [42 favorites]
Peter Thiel is the Morrissey of the business world: a tiresome, attention-seeking little prat who sees the repulsion he arouses in others as a vindication of how special he is.
He's Richard III stripped of every ounce of imagination, wit or charm, until all that's left is a smirking bag of bad, boring, annoying ideas.
posted by howfar at 11:38 AM on April 19, 2018 [42 favorites]
It's pretty unsurprising that these tools are being used by police for increasing harassment of youth of color in poorer neighborhoods. "Pre-crime" is a cringey euphemism used by the journalists, but they do a good job later in the piece looking at the impacts of such pseudo-Minority-Report antics by the cops. Notable too that JPMorgan only fired their surveillance lead when it became clear that he was spying on higher-ups.
posted by Existential Dread at 11:39 AM on April 19, 2018 [8 favorites]
posted by Existential Dread at 11:39 AM on April 19, 2018 [8 favorites]
It's confirmation bias I'm sure but it seems like everything that sucks is somehow connected to Peter Thiel.
posted by tommasz at 11:48 AM on April 19, 2018 [15 favorites]
posted by tommasz at 11:48 AM on April 19, 2018 [15 favorites]
Pitchforks and stakes start with pickets and strikes. If we ever want these repulsive companies to change or come to an end, we need to organise and build movements up.
posted by AnhydrousLove at 11:54 AM on April 19, 2018 [9 favorites]
posted by AnhydrousLove at 11:54 AM on April 19, 2018 [9 favorites]
something named after sauron's tool of surveillance and deception could only have been built with the best of intentions
posted by entropicamericana at 11:57 AM on April 19, 2018 [17 favorites]
posted by entropicamericana at 11:57 AM on April 19, 2018 [17 favorites]
It's confirmation bias I'm sure but it seems like everything that sucks is somehow connected to Peter Thiel.
Your favorite band is somehow connected to Peter Thiel.
posted by Foosnark at 12:05 PM on April 19, 2018 [10 favorites]
Your favorite band is somehow connected to Peter Thiel.
posted by Foosnark at 12:05 PM on April 19, 2018 [10 favorites]
If the Police were truly interested in pre-crime, they'd disband themselves since they seem to commit an awful lot of crimes.
posted by kokaku at 12:19 PM on April 19, 2018 [13 favorites]
posted by kokaku at 12:19 PM on April 19, 2018 [13 favorites]
They are all over, too. Two weeks back, we had Career Day at my CS department in Aarhus, Denmark (~100 CS MSc. candidates, 230 recruiters), and Palantír was there as well.
posted by bouvin at 12:20 PM on April 19, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by bouvin at 12:20 PM on April 19, 2018 [3 favorites]
I declined to apply for an analyst job because they used either Palantir or similar software (didn't specify in the job description, but the responsibilities made it clear). It literally sickens me that people's lives are being disrupted and destroyed by software. Data analysis is great for things and theories. Predicting forest fires or building transportation models, for example. I believe it is morally wrong to use it on people except for public health reasons (e.g. tracking epidemics), and you don't need this much data to do that.
I don't know if this has anything directly to do with Palantir, but one of my heroes is Jordon Dyrdahl-Roberts, who quit his state job rather than supply information to ICE.
posted by AFABulous at 12:37 PM on April 19, 2018 [24 favorites]
I don't know if this has anything directly to do with Palantir, but one of my heroes is Jordon Dyrdahl-Roberts, who quit his state job rather than supply information to ICE.
posted by AFABulous at 12:37 PM on April 19, 2018 [24 favorites]
Your favorite band is somehow connected to Peter Thiel.
The Riddle of Thiel is just a coincidence, damn it.
posted by Sangermaine at 12:52 PM on April 19, 2018 [1 favorite]
The Riddle of Thiel is just a coincidence, damn it.
posted by Sangermaine at 12:52 PM on April 19, 2018 [1 favorite]
Hearing about Palantir outside of the tech world is always interesting.
The most common opinion I see about Palantir in the tech world is “their tech isn’t very good, they just have an army of consultants” which seems to completely miss the point.
posted by meowzilla at 12:56 PM on April 19, 2018 [6 favorites]
The most common opinion I see about Palantir in the tech world is “their tech isn’t very good, they just have an army of consultants” which seems to completely miss the point.
posted by meowzilla at 12:56 PM on April 19, 2018 [6 favorites]
I just knew that anything in real life named after something in fantasy that was once considered to be helpful, but then became an tool for subjugation (thanks Sauron, you jerk!) was destined to become a feared tool IRL, too, and for good reason, it seems.
JPMorgan’s experience remains instructive. “The world changed when it became clear everyone could be targeted using Palantir,” says a former JPMorgan cyber expert who worked with Cavicchia at one point on the insider threat team. “Nefarious ideas became trivial to implement; everyone’s a suspect, so we monitored everything. It was a pretty terrible feeling.”
posted by Lynsey at 1:11 PM on April 19, 2018 [3 favorites]
JPMorgan’s experience remains instructive. “The world changed when it became clear everyone could be targeted using Palantir,” says a former JPMorgan cyber expert who worked with Cavicchia at one point on the insider threat team. “Nefarious ideas became trivial to implement; everyone’s a suspect, so we monitored everything. It was a pretty terrible feeling.”
posted by Lynsey at 1:11 PM on April 19, 2018 [3 favorites]
The list is distributed to patrolmen, with orders to monitor and stop the pre-crime suspects as often as possible, using excuses such as jaywalking or fix-it tickets.A libertarian, huh? Huh.
posted by clawsoon at 1:17 PM on April 19, 2018 [30 favorites]
No one even mentions how epistonyrical this is?
And, we allow this stuff to happen, then we can't complain when it is used for EVULLLLLL! This is capitalism, chaps/ettes.
posted by Samizdata at 1:18 PM on April 19, 2018 [2 favorites]
And, we allow this stuff to happen, then we can't complain when it is used for EVULLLLLL! This is capitalism, chaps/ettes.
posted by Samizdata at 1:18 PM on April 19, 2018 [2 favorites]
A libertarian, huh? Huh.
How else are you going to secure the liberty and property rights of the wealthy if not for a massive, oppressive security apparatus to subjugate the poors
posted by Existential Dread at 1:21 PM on April 19, 2018 [27 favorites]
How else are you going to secure the liberty and property rights of the wealthy if not for a massive, oppressive security apparatus to subjugate the poors
posted by Existential Dread at 1:21 PM on April 19, 2018 [27 favorites]
Samizdata: This is capitalism, chaps/ettes.
Given that the company has had such a hard time making money in the open market, and such a good time making money from the various surveillance arms of the state, I'd say that it leans more in the direction of fascism. (Not that the two are necessarily in opposition.)
posted by clawsoon at 1:22 PM on April 19, 2018 [16 favorites]
Given that the company has had such a hard time making money in the open market, and such a good time making money from the various surveillance arms of the state, I'd say that it leans more in the direction of fascism. (Not that the two are necessarily in opposition.)
posted by clawsoon at 1:22 PM on April 19, 2018 [16 favorites]
Did someone say Peter Thiel?
A darawing I did last month of the affectless jackanapes.
posted by Phlegmco(tm) at 1:26 PM on April 19, 2018 [5 favorites]
A darawing I did last month of the affectless jackanapes.
posted by Phlegmco(tm) at 1:26 PM on April 19, 2018 [5 favorites]
Is it too late for the pitchforks and stakes? Citizen Guillotine?
Never too late.
Thiel, the Mercers, Erik Prince and Betsy de Vos, and the Kochs should stand trial. I mean, their crimes are too big for any one court (particularly the Kochs), but I’m sure we can make it work.
I mean, I say this as someone who does think highly regulated capitalism is probably the most efficient organizing tool for an economy (as long as the obvious things, like health care, housing, etc are freaking provided).
Never stop pushing the Overton window, is what I’m saying. I want to get these fuckers good.
posted by schadenfrau at 1:38 PM on April 19, 2018 [7 favorites]
Never too late.
Thiel, the Mercers, Erik Prince and Betsy de Vos, and the Kochs should stand trial. I mean, their crimes are too big for any one court (particularly the Kochs), but I’m sure we can make it work.
I mean, I say this as someone who does think highly regulated capitalism is probably the most efficient organizing tool for an economy (as long as the obvious things, like health care, housing, etc are freaking provided).
Never stop pushing the Overton window, is what I’m saying. I want to get these fuckers good.
posted by schadenfrau at 1:38 PM on April 19, 2018 [7 favorites]
Just going to link to this Fortune article on Palantir because I did the images and any day where I get to make evil tech bros look like weirdos is a good day.
This company is basically like “1984 is a great idea for a startup” and Silicon Valley will throw money at any white boy in dumb track pants apparently.
posted by bradbane at 1:45 PM on April 19, 2018 [9 favorites]
This company is basically like “1984 is a great idea for a startup” and Silicon Valley will throw money at any white boy in dumb track pants apparently.
posted by bradbane at 1:45 PM on April 19, 2018 [9 favorites]
Thiel, the Mercers, Erik Prince and Betsy de Vos, and the Kochs should stand trial. I mean, their crimes are too big for any one court (particularly the Kochs), but I’m sure we can make it work.
Nuremberg is a good model. And I'd add people like Mitch McConnell, Steve Bannon, etc to the mix.
All these people are skirting a cliff edge, they are more or less advocating damaging or overthrowing the current democratic systems in one way or another. Doing it with technology, money, or contorted governance instead of guns and knives doesn't make it any less of a threat.
posted by CosmicRayCharles at 1:52 PM on April 19, 2018 [9 favorites]
Nuremberg is a good model. And I'd add people like Mitch McConnell, Steve Bannon, etc to the mix.
All these people are skirting a cliff edge, they are more or less advocating damaging or overthrowing the current democratic systems in one way or another. Doing it with technology, money, or contorted governance instead of guns and knives doesn't make it any less of a threat.
posted by CosmicRayCharles at 1:52 PM on April 19, 2018 [9 favorites]
Bradbane, I guess if you say "Piaget and Hobbes" enough, nobody will think of Bentham and the panopticon.
posted by chesty_a_arthur at 1:54 PM on April 19, 2018
posted by chesty_a_arthur at 1:54 PM on April 19, 2018
(Only addressed to you because you posted the article.)
posted by chesty_a_arthur at 1:55 PM on April 19, 2018
posted by chesty_a_arthur at 1:55 PM on April 19, 2018
Silicon Valley will throw money at any white boy in dumb track pants apparently.
Let's not fly off the handle, it also depends on what the institution name is on your diploma.
posted by rhizome at 1:57 PM on April 19, 2018 [7 favorites]
Let's not fly off the handle, it also depends on what the institution name is on your diploma.
posted by rhizome at 1:57 PM on April 19, 2018 [7 favorites]
First they came for the gangbangers, and I said nothing, because I wasn’t a gangbanger.
posted by panglos at 3:04 PM on April 19, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by panglos at 3:04 PM on April 19, 2018 [1 favorite]
> clawsoon:
"Given that the company has had such a hard time making money in the open market, and such a good time making money from the various surveillance arms of the state, I'd say that it leans more in the direction of fascism. (Not that the two are necessarily in opposition.)"
All I am saying if there weren't people willing to pay for this sort of information, there really wouldn't be a Palantir. You can say they are soulless mercenary fascist facilitators, certainly.
posted by Samizdata at 9:22 PM on April 19, 2018
"Given that the company has had such a hard time making money in the open market, and such a good time making money from the various surveillance arms of the state, I'd say that it leans more in the direction of fascism. (Not that the two are necessarily in opposition.)"
All I am saying if there weren't people willing to pay for this sort of information, there really wouldn't be a Palantir. You can say they are soulless mercenary fascist facilitators, certainly.
posted by Samizdata at 9:22 PM on April 19, 2018
I had a brush with the company a couple years ago and the thing that creeped me out the most (besides their consultants/engineers in essentially matching Palantir tracksuits) was that they owned all the data. Once you gave them the data in your databases it resided on their servers and any new data you collected to use with their service resided on their servers. If you stopped paying their (incredibly hefty) yearly fee you lost access to not only their services but also ALL YOUR DATA.
For that and several other reasons we decided to go another direction.
posted by This Guy at 4:38 AM on April 20, 2018 [3 favorites]
For that and several other reasons we decided to go another direction.
posted by This Guy at 4:38 AM on April 20, 2018 [3 favorites]
Silicon Valley will throw money at any white boy in dumb track pants apparently.Let's not fly off the handle, it also depends on what the institution name is on your diploma.
Imma get me some Stanford track pants!
posted by clawsoon at 5:10 AM on April 20, 2018 [1 favorite]
He’s ditching his longtime base in San Francisco and moving his personal investment firms this year to Los Angeles
welcome, fucko! listen, let's not overthink it. this guy created a computer program that organizes data of a scale that has never been previously available into a picture that other authoritarian morons can understand and use to harm people. cool. how long you think that business plan is gonna work?
posted by wibari at 11:47 PM on April 20, 2018
welcome, fucko! listen, let's not overthink it. this guy created a computer program that organizes data of a scale that has never been previously available into a picture that other authoritarian morons can understand and use to harm people. cool. how long you think that business plan is gonna work?
posted by wibari at 11:47 PM on April 20, 2018
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