“I think you got him, Michelle.”

April 25, 2018 10:33 AM

Suspect Arrested in Golden State Killer Case, Authorities Say [The New York Times] “After decades, the authorities confirmed on Wednesday that they had made an arrest in the unsolved case of a serial killer and rapist who terrorized communities in California in the 1970s and 1980s. Joseph James DeAngelo, 72, was arrested and charged early Wednesday with two counts of murder, according to Sacramento County jail records. A person familiar with the matter confirmed that Mr. DeAngelo had been arrested in connection with the case. [...] An exhaustive investigation into the identity of the serial killer was documented in a book called “I’ll Be Gone in the Dark,” written by Michelle McNamara, who died in April 2016. The book was completed after her death by a journalist and researcher recruited by her husband, the comedian Patton Oswalt, and published in February.” [WARNING: Discussion of Sexual Assault, Rape, Violence, Murder]

• Golden State Killer Suspect Arrested, According to Author [The Daily Beast]

“Police were outside of DeAngelo’s home Wednesday morning in the Sacramento area, in a part of town called Citrus Heights, according to The Bee. The suspect was identified after a “renewed push” on the investigation by the sheriff’s department and district attorney, The Bee said. The fifth victim of the Golden State Killer, Jane Carson-Sandler, said she learned about the arrest from two detectives in the case. “I just found out this morning,” she told The Island Packet. “I’m overwhelmed with joy. I’ve been crying, sobbing.” The Golden State Killer’s attacks began in 1976 in the East Bay Area region of California near Sacramento, which led to the suspect’s original name, The East Area Rapist. Years later, the same person began attacking 400 miles south, in Orange County, law-enforcement officials said. The attacks ended in 1986 and were linked through DNA evidence.”

• "Think you got him, Michelle": I'll Be Gone In The Dark team confirms Golden State Killer suspect arrest [AV Club]

“This might seem like an odd choice of a story to report on a pop-culture website, were it not for the involvement of a familiar figure to A.V. Club readers: Comedian Patton Oswalt, who faithfully shepherded I’ll Be Gone In The Dark—the book about the GSK left unfinished by his late wife Michelle McNamara after her sudden death in 2016—through to completion. McNamara’s troubling, beautifully written manuscript was published earlier this year, supplemented with material from researcher Paul Haynes and journalist Billy Jensen as well as an afterword by Oswalt. Oswalt is also set to executive produce an HBO docudrama based on McNamara’s book, publicity that all served to put pressure on local police and the FBI to solve the decades-old cases. As we put it in our story about the HBO series earlier this month: “perhaps by the time I’ll Be Gone In The Dark makes it to HBO there will be an end to the story—even if Michelle McNamara isn’t around to tell it.””

• Patton Oswalt via Twitter (@pattonoswalt) April 25, 2018

If they’ve really caught the #GoldenStateKiller I hope I get to visit him. Not to gloat or gawk — to ask him the questions that @TrueCrimeDiary wanted answered in her “Letter To An Old Man” at the end of #IllBeGoneInTheDark. pic.twitter.com/32EHSzBct5—

• S2 Ep1 - The Epicenter of Fear [Criminology Podcast]

“This season we will doing an in depth look at one of America's most infamous unsolved cases. This predator goes by many names: The East Area Rapist, The Golden State Killer, and the Original Night Stalker. This person is suspected of more than 100 home break ins and burglaries, at least 50 rapes, and a dozen or more murders. We'll be covering the crimes, the victims, and the clues using case documents and firsthand accounts. We talk with the investigators who worked this case back when it started and those who are working it today. We speak to victims who survived this monster and to the family members of victims that lost their lives.”

posted by Fizz (167 comments total)

It looks like they may have even found some of the items he stole in his house.

This is one of those huge cases, up there with the Zodiac killer, in unsolved crime groups.
posted by drezdn at 10:37 AM on April 25, 2018 [18 favorites]

The press conference is at noon and I have been just staring all the clock all morning waiting for it. TIME, MOVE FASTER.
posted by a hat out of hell at 10:44 AM on April 25, 2018 [6 favorites]

I've been reading about this case since the mid-1990s and am pretty stunned by this - for a number of reasons, it seemed highly unlikely to be solved, at least with a suspect being arrested. I'm very curious to know what the break here was, and whether publicity around Michelle McNamara's book had anything to do with it.

The Unresolved Mysteries subreddit is collecting a lot of related breaking news.

Hoping Larry Crompton will be making a statement - this has to be quite a moment for him.
posted by ryanshepard at 10:44 AM on April 25, 2018 [6 favorites]

Sometimes real life surpasses fiction, and this is one of those times. How satisfying to see some closure for the victims and their families, how bittersweet for those who loved Michelle and her work.
posted by rewil at 10:44 AM on April 25, 2018 [3 favorites]

Thanks for putting this post together. I am horrified and disgusted, but not at all surprised, to learn he was a cop. There is a famous story of a man who was at a community town hall meeting put on by police about EARONS in the early days and stood up to berate law enforcement and say he wouldn't stand idly by while someone attacked his wife. Seven months later, that man and his wife were victims. It's my understanding that the investigators were pretty sure EARONS was not one of the community members at that meeting. I wonder if they ever even considered looking at the cops.

(Not to mention being dismissed from the force for shoplifting dog repellent and a hammer! Come on.)
posted by WidgetAlley at 10:47 AM on April 25, 2018 [53 favorites]

I'm very curious to know what the break here was

The rumor I've seen is that there was a close familial DNA match.
posted by drezdn at 10:47 AM on April 25, 2018 [1 favorite]

Also a very generous Redditor is running a live stream on breaks in the case today.
posted by WidgetAlley at 10:48 AM on April 25, 2018 [1 favorite]

I didn’t expect to start sobbing on my third watch of the “I think you got him, Michelle” BUT HERE I AM. God, I wish she’d lived to hear this.
posted by a hat out of hell at 10:49 AM on April 25, 2018 [19 favorites]

I sort of hate that I'm fascinated by these kinds of gruesome serial cases/murders. It's a part of myself that I dislike, but I also recognize how important this kind of closure is for the survivors and their family. It matters that they can close this case and put it behind them. I really hope they can make some sense of peace with everything that has happened knowing that this monster has been captured.
posted by Fizz at 10:50 AM on April 25, 2018 [10 favorites]

One of the things I hope this renews discussion on is the statute of limitations on rape. He might have been caught a lot sooner if all the rape evidence wasn't destroyed (to their credit, California recently removed the statute of limitations for rape but it should be nationwide).
posted by I'm Not Even Supposed To Be Here Today! at 10:52 AM on April 25, 2018 [52 favorites]

And my god, I have had my quibbles and quarrels with and about Patton Oswalt, but the love and care he put in to make sure Michelle's work was done is awe inspiring. He has honored her so well and I hope through all the sadness and grief and bittersweet emotions, there's a bit of peace for him today.
posted by I'm Not Even Supposed To Be Here Today! at 10:54 AM on April 25, 2018 [65 favorites]

So as someone totally ignorant of the case, was the publication of the book somehow instrumental in solving it?
posted by gottabefunky at 10:55 AM on April 25, 2018

gottabefunky, we don't really know yet-- but from the hints that Patton Oswalt is dropping (who took over the book's publication and press after the author, his wife at the time died) and the fact that this break came so very soon after the increased media attention about the case due to her work, the answer is probably yes.
posted by WidgetAlley at 10:57 AM on April 25, 2018 [2 favorites]

There was also increased media attention around it when Michelle died because everyone in the true crime world knew how dedicated she had been to the case. What cases get picked for cold case teams is based on a bunch of things, but it's easy to guess the celebrity link helped this one receive the focus.
posted by I'm Not Even Supposed To Be Here Today! at 11:00 AM on April 25, 2018 [3 favorites]

Holy shit, I never thought he'd be caught alive. Time was running out. And he was a goddamned cop during the 'EAR' portion of his crimes. (And possibly being fired was the impetus for his escalating into the 'ONS' portion?)

Come on, Zodiac hunters.
posted by lovecrafty at 11:08 AM on April 25, 2018 [2 favorites]

Here's the initial r/EARONS post announcing the arrest. If you want to see a bunch of true crime fanatics endearingly flipping their shit, this is definitely the place to go.
posted by Frobenius Twist at 11:16 AM on April 25, 2018 [6 favorites]

We'll see if it's announced in a little under an hour, but the rumors this morning were that he's also admitted to being the Visalia Ransacker.
posted by I'm Not Even Supposed To Be Here Today! at 11:20 AM on April 25, 2018 [1 favorite]

100% DNA match per the Reddit post. Which floors me, because y'all, it's DNA Day. And it's four days after the 2nd anniversary of Michelle McNamara's death. Some days I don't believe in an afterlife or in a larger engine driving this universe, but today I think I might have to, because holy shit it's just too weird.
posted by palomar at 11:21 AM on April 25, 2018 [5 favorites]

r/UnresolvedMysteries is also losing their collective shit. They still have the AMA that Patton Oswalt, Paul Haynes, and Billy Jensen did for the release of Michelle McNamara's book stickied.
posted by lovecrafty at 11:22 AM on April 25, 2018 [8 favorites]

> (And possibly being fired was the impetus for his escalating into the 'ONS' portion?)

The dates line up. The suspect was dismissed on or around August 1979 . The East Area Rapist/Golden State Killer had possibly murdered a couple in 1978, but it was in October 1979 that he started to murder his victims instead of leaving them alive. That's a heck of an example of a trigger.
posted by NoiselessPenguin at 11:23 AM on April 25, 2018 [3 favorites]

Oswald did a Q&A on r/UnresolvedMysteries last month where they all seemed hopeful, although that might well be promotion hype.

This case is one that a lot of people thought would never be solved or he'd be dead (because he seems to have stopped for a long time now), so it was a real shocker.
posted by threetwentytwo at 11:23 AM on April 25, 2018

A recent tip possibly stemming from the increased media attention lead them to DeAngelo.
posted by WidgetAlley at 11:24 AM on April 25, 2018 [6 favorites]

This has been huge news all over my FB this morning because I'm from Sacramento and so are many of my friends. My family members lived in the areas where he struck when he was active. And he lived a few miles away from my childhood home, which I just sold last year. It's all so super creepy.
posted by elsietheeel at 11:25 AM on April 25, 2018 [1 favorite]

Here is Oswalt and team on the comedy murder podcast, My Favorite Murder, a couple weeks ago.

As to hopefulness being promotion hype - I think they really felt that way. A tweet from Oswalt this morning : First day of filming on the documentary was yesterday’s book event in Naperville. All of @TrueCrimeDiary’s family was there. Ended with me saying, “He’s running out of time.” And now all of this. Surreal.
posted by I'm Not Even Supposed To Be Here Today! at 11:33 AM on April 25, 2018 [5 favorites]

I remember a lot of speculation in true crime circles over the past couple of years that if he was alive, he might be reading and enjoying all the discussions about him. It was a pretty creepy thought at the time. But now I hope he was following all the recent interest in his crimes, in fear, knowing that it was only a matter of time before someone called in the right tip and he was caught.

And I hope he read Michelle McNamara's letter to him:

One day soon, you’ll hear a car pull up to your curb, an engine cut out. You’ll hear footsteps coming up your front walk. Like they did for Edward Wayne Edwards, twenty-nine years after he killed Timothy Hack and Kelly Drew, in Sullivan, Wisconsin. Like they did for Kenneth Lee Hicks, thirty years after he killed Lori Billingsley, in Aloha, Oregon.

The doorbell rings.

No side gates are left open. You’re long past leaping over a fence. Take one of your hyper, gulping breaths. Clench your teeth. Inch timidly toward the insistent bell.

This is how it ends for you.

posted by Catseye at 11:35 AM on April 25, 2018 [68 favorites]

I keep crying about this, and I think maybe it’s because most rape survivors don’t get justice. I certainly didn’t and never really will. They probably thought they were never going to get justice either - and now they are. It’s really nice to know that sometimes, maybe, the system works.
posted by a hat out of hell at 11:37 AM on April 25, 2018 [37 favorites]

If there is one small downside to this, according to the true crime subreddits DeAngelo has a daughter (who works as a special ed teacher). I can't even imagine what that must be like.
posted by Frobenius Twist at 11:42 AM on April 25, 2018 [1 favorite]

Not to mention that the "Bonnie" he's been heard muttering is a real person but not his wife of many years.
posted by I'm Not Even Supposed To Be Here Today! at 11:45 AM on April 25, 2018 [5 favorites]

He never married Bonnie. He married another woman whom he is still married to (I think), and she's a lawyer.

And he has has three daughters, ages 37, 32, and 29.
posted by elsietheeel at 11:47 AM on April 25, 2018 [2 favorites]

BTK had a family, too. It was a DNA swab from his daughter’s cheek that clinched it.
posted by Sys Rq at 11:48 AM on April 25, 2018 [6 favorites]

Yes, that's what I was saying, Bonnie pre-dated his wife.
posted by I'm Not Even Supposed To Be Here Today! at 11:48 AM on April 25, 2018

I'm so glad to see that her work, and Oswald's persistence in carrying it across the finish line, has paid off.
posted by drewbage1847 at 11:51 AM on April 25, 2018

(Got it. I read too quickly.)
posted by elsietheeel at 11:51 AM on April 25, 2018 [1 favorite]

I'm watching the press conference stream here. There's not a lot of overlay type BS that other news sites have.
posted by I'm Not Even Supposed To Be Here Today! at 11:58 AM on April 25, 2018

Wasn't able to get that stream up but a local station's facebook feed is working: https://www.facebook.com/fox40/videos/10155479128977039/
posted by drewbage1847 at 12:12 PM on April 25, 2018

There's also a YouTube feed here
posted by Frobenius Twist at 12:17 PM on April 25, 2018

This stream is working, too.
posted by the return of the thin white sock at 12:17 PM on April 25, 2018

This press conference is a disgusting dog and pony show for Schubert and Jones.
posted by elsietheeel at 12:25 PM on April 25, 2018 [2 favorites]

Yeah I had to stop watching with the DA of Ventura County. Of course this press conference is the right time to whine about how everyone is a bunch of meanies to police officers.
posted by muddgirl at 12:31 PM on April 25, 2018 [11 favorites]

This press conference is a disgusting dog and pony show for Schubert and Jones.

Yup.

"... at a time where law enforcement was unfortunately under such close scrutiny..."

I mean, like, fuck off
posted by nogoodverybad at 12:32 PM on April 25, 2018 [52 favorites]

"At a time when unfortunately law enforcement is facing so much criticism..."

oh get the fuck outta here
posted by Frobenius Twist at 12:32 PM on April 25, 2018 [30 favorites]

Got the quote kinda wrong, apologies. I think I was just too disgusted to write it down correctly.
posted by nogoodverybad at 12:34 PM on April 25, 2018

Weird they aren't focusing on how he too was a cop when everyone was looking for the rapist.
posted by I'm Not Even Supposed To Be Here Today! at 12:34 PM on April 25, 2018 [72 favorites]

Huh, probably not best to be gloating about how great the police are, when it was one of their own, and it was broke by citizens decades later.
posted by chainlinkspiral at 12:34 PM on April 25, 2018 [67 favorites]

I knew they weren't going to recognize Michelle's amazing work, but to claim that the task force had absolutely nothing to do with her death or conversation about the case that sprouted from her is absurd.
posted by I'm Not Even Supposed To Be Here Today! at 12:35 PM on April 25, 2018 [14 favorites]

I would be very surprised if DeAngelo doesn't have a history of violence or other red-flag behaviors that was downplayed or ignored by law enforcement as "domestic problems."
posted by muddgirl at 12:36 PM on April 25, 2018 [26 favorites]

Ughhhh now the OC guy is talking about how they all worked so hard in 2016 to keep the death penalty and aren't we all happy about that now?
posted by lovecrafty at 12:37 PM on April 25, 2018 [6 favorites]

I would be very surprised if DeAngelo doesn't have a history of violence or other red-flag behaviors that was downplayed or ignored by law enforcement as "domestic problems."

Absolutely. Bet on it.
posted by the return of the thin white sock at 12:37 PM on April 25, 2018 [7 favorites]

My office is very noisy and I can’t hear all of it. Did they explicitly say Michelle’s book had nothing to do with it?
posted by skycrashesdown at 12:38 PM on April 25, 2018

NO! No we are not happy about that now!! What sort of limp justice system brags about killing a 70+yr old man? It will be so much cheaper to just hold him in prison until he dies. They will waste so much money proving that they can kill him. And for what?
posted by I'm Not Even Supposed To Be Here Today! at 12:39 PM on April 25, 2018 [36 favorites]

I would be very surprised if DeAngelo doesn't have a history of violence or other red-flag behaviors that was downplayed or ignored by law enforcement as "domestic problems."

Neighbors down the street said they could sometimes hear him shouting curses, so yeah. Angry man.
posted by Rust Moranis at 12:39 PM on April 25, 2018 [3 favorites]

They haven't mentioned her at all. And I suspect they won't. We're at "BRAVO law enforcement" sooooooooo
posted by I'm Not Even Supposed To Be Here Today! at 12:39 PM on April 25, 2018 [3 favorites]

Did they explicitly say Michelle’s book had nothing to do with it?

Not that I heard (but my office is a little noisy, too). They just seemed to conveniently fail to mention its existence.
posted by the return of the thin white sock at 12:40 PM on April 25, 2018 [2 favorites]

Did they explicitly say Michelle’s book had nothing to do with it?

Nope. No mention of her at all, from the feed I'm watching. Unsurprising, since it was DNA that actually broke the case, right?
posted by palomar at 12:40 PM on April 25, 2018

Weird they aren't focusing on how he too was a cop when everyone was looking for the rapist.

Srsly. "Law enforcement officers called him many things, East Area Rapist, Visalia Ransacker ... and now we're pleased to say he can now be called 'defendant'" Turns out you also called him a brother-in-arms for a while, notice you're not mentioning that.
posted by rewil at 12:41 PM on April 25, 2018 [44 favorites]

DNA proved the case but they already suspected him before collecting his DNA.
posted by I'm Not Even Supposed To Be Here Today! at 12:42 PM on April 25, 2018

Yeah, they said they surveilled him until he threw out something they could collect DNA from. They didn't say why he was on their radar, unless I missed that?
posted by lovecrafty at 12:44 PM on April 25, 2018 [3 favorites]

I'm just not sure why anyone expected law enforcement to go out there and say it was the work of civilians that got this result.
posted by palomar at 12:44 PM on April 25, 2018 [3 favorites]

No one expected it, I said as much in my comment that started this thread of conversation. But the hagiography of law enforcement when it was civilians who kept this case alive is still gross.
posted by I'm Not Even Supposed To Be Here Today! at 12:47 PM on April 25, 2018 [19 favorites]

Brother of a victim, extolling DNA evidence, specifically talked about the Innocence Project. That's nice.
posted by Guy Smiley at 12:49 PM on April 25, 2018 [28 favorites]

Oh! Here we go! First guy to thank "the public" and mention them as part of the team, then a thanks to "the media" which i guess sorta covers it.
posted by I'm Not Even Supposed To Be Here Today! at 12:49 PM on April 25, 2018 [1 favorite]

"... at a time where law enforcement was unfortunately under such close scrutiny..."

I didn't want to drop this in earlier at risk of derail, but one aspect of this defensiveness may be the fact that after Sacramento PD shot Stephon Clark in the back in his grandma's backyard, DA Schubert declined to take any action against the officers involved, which then sparked multiple protests over several weeks, leading to the DA's office physically erecting chain-link fencing around the building. So, yeah, my impression is that things have been kind of tense in Sacramento lately.
posted by mhum at 12:50 PM on April 25, 2018 [27 favorites]

Stephon Clark is only the most recent murder at the hands of Sacramento law enforcement. Unfortunately there have been many others over the past few years.
posted by elsietheeel at 12:52 PM on April 25, 2018 [11 favorites]

Ooohhhh digging in to testing sexual assault kits. Yes!
posted by I'm Not Even Supposed To Be Here Today! at 12:53 PM on April 25, 2018 [5 favorites]

YES. "Get those rape kits out of the police evidence lockers and into crime labs."
posted by the return of the thin white sock at 12:53 PM on April 25, 2018 [16 favorites]

Maybe somebody who knows more about the ins and outs of capital prosecutions can correct me, but it seems absurd just knowing what I do about the justice system that you'd expect a guy who was 72 years old when arrested to live long enough to exhaust all his appeals.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 12:55 PM on April 25, 2018 [2 favorites]

It is a show of force and nothing more.
posted by I'm Not Even Supposed To Be Here Today! at 12:57 PM on April 25, 2018 [2 favorites]

It might be posturing to get him to confess to all his crimes, not just the ones they have him dead to rights on. The Green River Killer confessed all in exchange for the death penalty being taken off the table.

But it's probably just absurdity and justice-boner theater.
posted by lovecrafty at 12:59 PM on April 25, 2018

or other red-flag behaviors

In retrospect, trying to shoplift a hammer and dog repellent should have been a pretty big one.
posted by drezdn at 1:00 PM on April 25, 2018 [27 favorites]

First mention of him being a cop in a question from the press.
posted by lovecrafty at 1:01 PM on April 25, 2018 [3 favorites]

The sheriff is referring to him as the Golden State Killer, which is a term Michelle McNamara coined.
posted by lovecrafty at 1:02 PM on April 25, 2018 [17 favorites]

Until he was fired "for what you just heard." lol He can't even repeat it.
posted by I'm Not Even Supposed To Be Here Today! at 1:03 PM on April 25, 2018 [11 favorites]

Oh! They did mention the book. Said nothing came from it, but kept the case in the forefront of people's minds.
posted by I'm Not Even Supposed To Be Here Today! at 1:03 PM on April 25, 2018

I think it is new information (to me at least) that he was a peace officer with the Exeter police department during the time of the Visalia burglaries.

Why do they keep talking about "emerging technology" related to DNA? There must be a political reason.
posted by muddgirl at 1:04 PM on April 25, 2018 [1 favorite]

I wonder if it's a type of testing that hasn't been used in California courts yet.
posted by I'm Not Even Supposed To Be Here Today! at 1:07 PM on April 25, 2018 [2 favorites]

I wonder if one of his kids did 23 and Me.
posted by lovecrafty at 1:07 PM on April 25, 2018 [16 favorites]

I thought they weren't allowed to use those databases for familial matches. Maybe someone needed clearance for foster care or something? The rumors this morning is that it was a familial match of some kind.
posted by I'm Not Even Supposed To Be Here Today! at 1:08 PM on April 25, 2018

Yes the familial match/online database occurred to me after I posted my question, and I couldn't hear all the reporters questions but I think some of them were trying to get to that point as well, especially the one asking if other family members lived at his home.
posted by muddgirl at 1:10 PM on April 25, 2018

Must have been a dog infestation in his garage.
posted by runcibleshaw at 1:14 PM on April 25, 2018 [3 favorites]

Supposedly the way that police take DNA and things like 23andme are incompatible, at least as things are now.
posted by drezdn at 1:17 PM on April 25, 2018

Joseph James DeAngelo's brother-in-law recalled him casually bringing up the case in the 1970s.

DeAngelo once served as a cop for the Auburn Police Department. Huddle said DeAngelo recently worked as a truck mechanic until he retired last year.

He said DeAngelo was into "normal" hobbies, such as fishing and model airplanes, and also "guns and reloading ammunition." But he said he never noticed anything sinister about DeAngelo's behavior.

(1) Working as a mechanic explains how he got access to all those different vehicles.

(2) There is definitely something sinister about reloading your guns as a hobby.
posted by Rust Moranis at 1:27 PM on April 25, 2018 [7 favorites]

Crime writer Billy Jensen helped to finish McNamara's book after her death. On twitter he has said that now that the identity of GSK is known, he is going to continue investigating to identify if there are any other victims.
posted by muddgirl at 1:29 PM on April 25, 2018 [21 favorites]

Regarding other potential victims: he had a boat. Also spent time in Australia, where I'd be comparing his dates and places with missing persons and home invasion murders.
posted by Rust Moranis at 1:31 PM on April 25, 2018 [15 favorites]

also "guns and reloading ammunition."

(2) There is definitely something sinister about reloading your guns as a hobby.

Reloading ammunition means refilling cartridges with bullets and gunpowder. A former coworker also had this hobby - it's a precise and technical process that appeals to a small subset of gun enthusiasts.
posted by muddgirl at 1:32 PM on April 25, 2018 [33 favorites]

It's difficult to believe that he just stopped in the 80s. I think the story of this will go on for years.
posted by I'm Not Even Supposed To Be Here Today! at 1:33 PM on April 25, 2018 [3 favorites]

There is definitely something sinister about reloading your guns as a hobby.

Apologies if you know this but I believe "reloading" refers to making one's own ammunition. I don't know if it's more or less nutty than regular gun-nut stuff.

(I knew a guy who did it was was a weirdo libertarian/borderline survivalist, but I also knew a guy who did it who was really into hunting/woodsman stuff but a sweet guy.)
posted by atoxyl at 1:33 PM on April 25, 2018 [1 favorite]

My uncle was super into reloading. I'm pretty sure he's not a serial killer. But the idea that a hobby of guns is benign or normal should definitely go out of style.
posted by I'm Not Even Supposed To Be Here Today! at 1:35 PM on April 25, 2018 [19 favorites]

As a tangent aside, all the ammo reloaders I've ever known tend to fall into 3 broad categories:

1. Frugal people (reloading can be significantly cheaper than buying ammo), especially if one has older, odder caliber firearms.

2. Technically minded shooters, who like to geek out about gunpowder grains, etc.

3. Hardcore and competitive target shooting enthusiasts, for whom the need for precisely created and calibrated bullets is part of the sport.
posted by Chrischris at 1:48 PM on April 25, 2018 [12 favorites]

Also spent time in Australia, where I'd be comparing his dates and places with missing persons and home invasion murders.

There have long been suggestions of links between this and Mr Cruel, which seems like a massive stretch, except it seems like he really was the Visalia Ransacker.
posted by threetwentytwo at 1:49 PM on April 25, 2018 [4 favorites]

4. People who are very careful about picking up their casings ... for reasons ... and need an excuse for all the empty casings in their garage.
posted by Sys Rq at 1:52 PM on April 25, 2018 [16 favorites]

My experience reloading shells for my dad is the frugal variety.

Can we go back to how this DA used the arrest of a cop to cheer for cops? WTF
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 1:54 PM on April 25, 2018 [13 favorites]

He said DeAngelo was into "normal" hobbies, such as fishing and model airplanes, and also "guns and reloading ammunition."

this phrase sticks out as so horrifying to me for reasons that i've been trying to articulate all day in about a dozen self-deleted-on-preview comments. basically i was looking at the wiki page list of his EAR crimes and noticing the regularity, the frequency, the routine of it. obviously since it's a list of horrible crimes it sticks out as something that was a creepy unhinged obsession for him but like? at the same time? if it was just a list of the days he was out of town instead? it looks like someone who has a hobby that they really enjoy, that they make time for, that they devote a lot of leisure time to enjoying.

how many of those "fishing" trips were actually rape and murder.
posted by poffin boffin at 1:58 PM on April 25, 2018 [20 favorites]

I'd cheer all the time for cops if they arrested all the cops that need arresting.
posted by ericost at 1:59 PM on April 25, 2018 [45 favorites]

Man, there has been so much debate in the true crime community and among law enforcement as to whether the Golden State Killer and the Visalia Ransacker were the same perpetrator. As recently as 2017, the Contra Costa DA said that they were not the same person. Then they arrest DeAngelo based on GSK DNA and apparently he just confesses to being VR. And not only that, he was apparently on a special burglary task force!
posted by muddgirl at 2:14 PM on April 25, 2018 [9 favorites]

In light of the GSK-as-cop reveal, it's now a certainty that the Long Island Serial Killer was (or still is) working in law enforcement. Add in Gerard John Schaefer and you have to wonder just how many are wearing a badge right now.
posted by Rust Moranis at 2:19 PM on April 25, 2018 [16 favorites]

Did the FBI profile ever list the possibility of him being a cop?
posted by I'm Not Even Supposed To Be Here Today! at 2:27 PM on April 25, 2018 [1 favorite]

Saw some mention in earlier articles that it was suspected he had military or LEO training. Don't know if that was part of the official profile.
posted by drewbage1847 at 2:28 PM on April 25, 2018

It's difficult to believe that he just stopped in the 80s. I think the story of this will go on for years.

Indeed, not to derail completely but the recent arrest/investigation of Toronto serial killer Bruce McArthur, is still leading to more bodies/murders/evidence. They just charged him with the death of an 8th victim. He was killing for years and who knows how many more are still missing. It's such a scary thing to think about.
posted by Fizz at 2:29 PM on April 25, 2018 [8 favorites]

And not only that, he was apparently on a special burglary task force!

to "investigate burglaries and attempt to prevent them by informing the public about burglary prevention methods."

Joe Pesci in the beginning of Home Alone.
posted by Sys Rq at 2:30 PM on April 25, 2018 [6 favorites]

taken from the wiki page i linked above: wayback pdf link of profile
posted by poffin boffin at 2:31 PM on April 25, 2018 [1 favorite]

Did the FBI profile ever list the possibility of him being a cop?

They’ve always said likely military, and apparently he did a navy stint.
posted by Lutoslawski at 2:38 PM on April 25, 2018 [6 favorites]

Just read the whole profile (thanks pffin boffin!) and yeah, they suspected navy the whole time, but thought he'd be a convicted criminal, instead of someone who was able to dodge convictions (by being a cop). I'm glad his actual profile will be added to this research so hopefully the bias that it can't be a cop further declines.
posted by I'm Not Even Supposed To Be Here Today! at 2:45 PM on April 25, 2018 [8 favorites]

The profile does say that he was attempting to manipulate the police, and that:

These types of offenders are aware of who they are and what they are, and because they are “police buffs” they are very much aware of law enforcement and investigative techniques.

posted by Hypatia at 2:58 PM on April 25, 2018 [1 favorite]

Yeah, and they also talk about how much time & effort he spent avoiding capture as if he knew what could be linked to him. But they still fell on the side of ex-con.
posted by I'm Not Even Supposed To Be Here Today! at 3:02 PM on April 25, 2018

In light of the GSK-as-cop reveal, it's now a certainty that the Long Island Serial Killer was (or still is) working in law enforcement.

I always assumed it was that suffolk county police chief who ended up getting busted for something else.
posted by poffin boffin at 3:32 PM on April 25, 2018 [3 favorites]

This press conference is a disgusting dog and pony show for Schubert and Jones.

Useful information, however - e.g. DeAngelo confirmed as the killer of Brian and Katie Maggiore.
posted by ryanshepard at 4:15 PM on April 25, 2018 [3 favorites]

Brother of a victim, extolling DNA evidence, specifically talked about the Innocence Project. That's nice.

Bruce Harrington, who has been at this a while - he was instrumental in getting CA's DNA Fingerprint, Unsolved Crime, and Innocence Protection Act passed in 2004.

They’ve always said likely military, and apparently he did a navy stint.

The latter was strongly suspected due to his use of specific knots.
posted by ryanshepard at 4:42 PM on April 25, 2018 [11 favorites]

Pure speculation time: his known crimes stopped in 1986, the exact year that DNA forensics was first used to catch someone in the UK. (First used in the US in 1987.) So either he actually stopped for unknown reasons (birth of child, fear of DNA profiling), or he just got smarter and there's possibly a lot more crimes in his ledger.
posted by lovecrafty at 6:54 PM on April 25, 2018 [7 favorites]

I have to say I was shocked when I heard this news, and I did go visit the Reddit threads, but overall, I was just astounded that they caught this guy, after so many years. It was in the 1970's and in the 1980's and then we got DNA and they linked him to more crimes and then... blergh nothing going on here forever and now it's like, they caught him, 30-40 years later.

It's just astounding.
posted by Marie Mon Dieu at 7:21 PM on April 25, 2018 [2 favorites]

...in the East Bay Area region of California near Sacramento, which led to the suspect’s original name, The East Area Rapist.

A quibble: Sacramento has never been referred to as the "East Bay Area." His crimes were in the suburbs east of Sacramento, which is what East Area refers to. I grew up in the suburb adjacent to where he lived, just a few miles away from his house.
posted by apricot at 8:34 PM on April 25, 2018 [4 favorites]

He did have a few victims in the East Bay, and even as far south as the Berryessa community of San Jose. Interestingly, all of his Bay Area victims appear to be right off the 680 freeway, which would be the main route from Auburn to the south bay. I wonder if DeAngelo had some connection in the area or what.
posted by muddgirl at 9:21 PM on April 25, 2018

I'd guess the writer just figured that since it wasn't in the LA area it must have been the Bay area, since California only has two areas.
posted by ckape at 10:41 PM on April 25, 2018 [7 favorites]

Wow. Just. Wow. I finished I'll be Gone in the Dark last month and now this? What's next, the Zodiac?
posted by halcyonday at 3:11 AM on April 26, 2018 [2 favorites]

He did have a few victims in the East Bay, and even as far south as the Berryessa community of San Jose.

None of whom the Daily Beast mentions. It's pretty clear they're unfamiliar with both Sacramento and the East Bay. (I mean I'm unfamiliar with Sacramento and read that paragraph several times to make sure I hadn't missed some reference to the actual East Bay.)
posted by hoyland at 3:55 AM on April 26, 2018 [1 favorite]

BTK had a family, too. It was a DNA swab from his daughter’s cheek that clinched it.

The initial DNA match in the BTK case actually came from his daughter's pap smear (obtained under a judge's order), a fact which makes me somehow uncomfortable.
posted by Svejk at 4:06 AM on April 26, 2018 [3 favorites]

The initial DNA match in the BTK case actually came from his daughter's pap smear (obtained under a judge's order), a fact which makes me somehow uncomfortable.

They had reason to suspect that her dad was the killer though due to metadata on a floppy disk he had sent police.
posted by drezdn at 5:40 AM on April 26, 2018 [1 favorite]

If there is one small downside to this, according to the true crime subreddits DeAngelo has a daughter (who works as a special ed teacher). I can't even imagine what that must be like.
posted by Frobenius Twist at 2:42 PM on April 25

I think about this a lot. A friend of mine worked with the wife of Russell Williams and yeah it tore her entire world and psyche down.
I think about how when Bruce McArthur's name was released we all saw him on facebook in glowing photos with his grandkids.

hmmm also Robert Pickton was relatively recent too... Does Canada have an exceptional number of serial killers? Honest question.
posted by Theta States at 6:14 AM on April 26, 2018 [4 favorites]

Oh OK I guess there is an adequate ratio of Canadian to American serial killers, though the Canadian list needs to get updated with McArthur...
posted by Theta States at 6:15 AM on April 26, 2018

Useful roundup of overnight / early AM news from an r/EARONS poster that claims to have law enforcement sources and to have seen the sealed complaints against DeAngelo.
posted by ryanshepard at 6:32 AM on April 26, 2018 [1 favorite]

None of whom the Daily Beast mentions.

Yeah no, they fucked it up but bad. I think he was called the East Area Rapist before he started in the Bay area (but I haven't done any research to back that up). I just wanted to clarify that he did have victims in the East Bay, which the writer clearly didn't know and also thought the East Bay was the same thing as the Eastern suburbs of Sacramento.

from an r/EARONS poster that claims to have law enforcement sources

As is typical for breaking news there are a lot of unsourced rumors going around especially on Reddit where speculation becomes "fact", but that poster has published a book about the GSK (before he was called that) so it is believable that she does have law enforcement contacts.
posted by muddgirl at 6:53 AM on April 26, 2018 [1 favorite]

What's next, the Zodiac

Here's hoping.
posted by Fizz at 7:21 AM on April 26, 2018 [6 favorites]

It would be nice if this guy could take a good look around California's central valley.
posted by Baeria at 7:31 AM on April 26, 2018 [3 favorites]

On the morning that this news came out, I was telling my husband that I was having a hard time getting through McNamara's book because it's so grisly and disturbing and also I know that the guy is still out there or was never caught. Knowing that there was no satisfying end in sight was really dragging me down. An hour or so later, he sends me a text with the news story! I'm so happy that some of these survivors will have closure. I cannot imagine living on with that guy still at large and then when your kids grow up, your daughters, and they move into their own homes? The trauma that surrounds each one of these crimes is immense.

No death penalty for that guy. He should stay in prison forever.
posted by amanda at 8:59 AM on April 26, 2018 [6 favorites]

Eliz@beth King [via Twitter]: The fact that every headline about the Golden State Killer doesn’t identify him as an ex-cop tells you everything you need to know about the relationship between corporate media and the state
posted by Atom Eyes at 9:19 AM on April 26, 2018 [26 favorites]

I have a question for legal experts of Metafilter. I understand that unfortunately the statute of limitations has passed for rape and burglary. DeAngelo has already been charged by 2 or 3 different DAs and I believe there are a few more murder cases possibly in different counties he could be charged with. Will all the charges be combined at one trial or could he potentially be facing several trials across California?
posted by muddgirl at 9:21 AM on April 26, 2018

One of the (UK) Independent's main stories today is headlined Golden State Killer: Did late crime writer Michelle McNamara inspire capture of suspected serial murderer?

Takes a little of the sting out of the announcement that your orange turniphead is coming here on Friday 13th for a "state" visit. My arse.
posted by humph at 10:14 AM on April 26, 2018

They had reason to suspect that her dad was the killer though due to metadata on a floppy disk he had sent police.

I didn't mean to imply that the order was inappropriate - BTK is probably an example of thoroughly-justified familial searching. I just hope that future such orders are similarly limited in scope.
posted by Svejk at 10:56 AM on April 26, 2018 [1 favorite]

Eliz@beth King [via Twitter]: The fact that every headline about the Golden State Killer doesn’t identify him as an ex-cop tells you everything you need to know about the relationship between corporate media and the state.

Search for ‘Golden State Killer’ Leads to Arrest of Ex-Cop [NYT]

Golden State Killer: Ex-cop arrested in serial murder-rape cold case [MSNBC]

Long, tortured hunt for Golden State Killer leads to arrest of ex-cop [LA Times]

Suspected 'Golden State Killer' identified as ex-cop decades after serial rapes, murders [Atlanta Journal Constitution]

Etc. Not denying there is a relationship there that's worthy of analysis, but you need to be a lot less glib to begin getting at it.
posted by ryanshepard at 11:34 AM on April 26, 2018 [18 favorites]

Will all the charges be combined at one trial or could he potentially be facing several trials across California?

My understanding is that if it's different jurisdictions, it would be different trials. If it's multiple crimes in the same jurisdiction, it can be done either way, though sentencing can be harsher for criminals who attempt separate trials since the cost to the state is so enormous.
posted by Lutoslawski at 2:07 PM on April 26, 2018

ABUSE OF POWER COMES AS NO SURPRISE

-Jenny Holzer
posted by deadbilly at 2:54 PM on April 26, 2018 [4 favorites]

Sacramento Bee (2018/04/26), Relative's DNA from genealogy websites cracked East Area Rapist case, DA's office says:

Sacramento investigators tracked down East Area Rapist suspect Joseph James DeAngelo using genealogical websites that contained genetic information from a relative, the Sacramento County District Attorney's Office confirmed Thursday.

The effort was part of a painstaking process that began by using DNA from one of the crime scenes from years ago and comparing it to genetic profiles available online through various websites that cater to individuals wanting to know more about their family backgrounds by accepting DNA samples from them, said Chief Deputy District Attorney Steve Grippi.

The investigation was conducted over a long period of time as officials in Sacramento County District Attorney Anne Marie Schubert's office and crime lab explored online family trees that appeared to have matches to DNA samples from the East Area Rapist's crimes, Grippi said. They then followed clues to individuals in the family trees to determine whether they were potential suspects.

posted by mhum at 2:59 PM on April 26, 2018 [5 favorites]

As somebody who grew up in Carmichael, and knew him as the East Area Rapist or the Original Night Stalker, I'm not down with using Golden State Killer. That's like calling records vinyls.

I'm also not down with people calling him the East Bay Rapist and hand waving "oh there were some there too". I live in the East Bay now, but his start was hella Sacramento. And not just any part of Sacramento, but the unincorporated suburbs in the eastern part of the county that people often mix up or ignore on their way to the new megaburb of Roseville. I listened to them describing the bleakness of East Sac/Carmichael/Citrus Heights/etc on My Favorite Murder, and it made me clear that how do you know a place when you just drive through it and think of it as a boring hell hole?
posted by kendrak at 3:24 PM on April 26, 2018 [2 favorites]

I have to say, as glad as I am that they caught him, I'm more than a little disturbed that they used private DNA databases to do it. There's been a lot of talk about the legality of that, and it feels like they want this to be the test case, because it's an obvious win and no one will want him to get off. But the implications for privacy of DNA data seem...ominous.
posted by threeturtles at 4:20 PM on April 26, 2018 [9 favorites]

I'm also not down with people calling him the East Bay Rapist and hand waving "oh there were some there too".

No one is calling him the "east bay rapist" except for people who don't know that the Placer and Sacramento Counties are nowhere near any sort of bay.
posted by muddgirl at 4:29 PM on April 26, 2018 [3 favorites]

I'm more than a little disturbed that they used private DNA databases to do it.

There are some interesting questions here. The way it was described by the DA, they did not subpoena any private information that is not available to any other user of the website. However, most DNA websites have something like this statement in their T&C: "In addition, you represent that any sample you submit is either your DNA or the DNA of a person for whom you are a legal guardian or have obtained legal authorization to provide their DNA to AncestryDNA."

I suppose the last clause is what they'll argue allows them to do so, but who provides that "legal authorization"?
posted by muddgirl at 4:36 PM on April 26, 2018

Right and it sounds like they took the information on familial matches and then surveilled those family members (or some of them) until they narrowed it down. So to what extent does submitting a DNA sample to a private company and being a relative of a criminal give law enforcement a right to investigate you?
posted by threeturtles at 4:44 PM on April 26, 2018 [1 favorite]

but his start was hella Sacramento.

Also, his start was not Sacramento as far as we know right now. His earliest-known attack was in Visalia where he attempted to abduct Beth Snelling, and then murdered her father Claude Snelling. I hope they are looking into his residence in New York and his early years in Citrus Heights/Roseville to see if there were any earlier, as-yet-unknown attacks.
posted by muddgirl at 4:56 PM on April 26, 2018 [2 favorites]

As somebody who grew up in Carmichael, and knew him as the East Area Rapist or the Original Night Stalker, I'm not down with using Golden State Killer. That's like calling records vinyls.

The point of giving the guy a name like "Golden State Killer" was to link all his crimes together. And, perversely, having a catchy name attracts people to the case. It seems like people into researching these crimes are fairly adept at referencing the different locales his crimes were linked to (EAR/ONS) but by putting them all under the umbrella of one moniker means looking for links between crimes and clues. It attracts more attention and encourages the different locales to share information and coordinate with each other. Historically, that has been a major problem.
posted by amanda at 5:06 PM on April 26, 2018 [13 favorites]

(Woo Carmichael represent!)
posted by elsietheeel at 5:18 PM on April 26, 2018 [2 favorites]

So, uh, lovecrafty was right: he was caught because of a genealogy website
posted by a hat out of hell at 5:57 PM on April 26, 2018 [4 favorites]

I am so not ok with the family tree DNA stuff being used, but it was easy to see as soon as those sites got popular. Using this first for such a completely awful piece of shit who deserves to die in prison will undercut any reasonable critique about it.
posted by I'm Not Even Supposed To Be Here Today! at 6:41 PM on April 26, 2018 [3 favorites]

Looks like I was wrong about them not being able to use sites like 23andme.
posted by drezdn at 7:01 PM on April 26, 2018

Wooow. Not sure how I feel about this. I'm glad they caught him, but definitely never submitting my DNA to a genealogy site!

What's the legality with this, I wonder? I know those sites have some boilerplate stuff about turning info over to the police if asked, but is this the first case where they've used one of those sites to find a perpetrator? And they just lucked into getting one of the most infamous unsolved cases? On "DNA Day"?

Hmmm....
posted by lovecrafty at 7:13 PM on April 26, 2018

Could they have submitted genetic material and just waited to see... or could they have just submitted data or did they get access to the registry data? They had genetic material in storage just no CODIS hits. If they had arrested him and charged him, he would have been compelled to submit to a cheek swab and it would have been conclusively matched. What's the "slippery slope" argument?
posted by amanda at 7:29 PM on April 26, 2018

I just keep thinking about that neighbor who caught DeAngelo sneaking around his house only to have him jump on a bike and flee, considering how much the preparatory reconnaissance and bicycle escapes figured into the crimes.
posted by ckape at 7:58 PM on April 26, 2018 [1 favorite]

Re the East Bay derail:

Contra Costa County's district attorney is working with police agencies there to investigate whether DeAngelo committed nine sexual assaults in that county between 1978 and 1979, DA spokesman Scott Alonso said.

Alonso said the statute of limitations may present a challenge. He said the office is evaluating cases with the county sheriff and police in Concord, Danville and Walnut Creek, where attacks linked to the East Area Rapist occurred. (from the link just above)
posted by salvia at 9:25 PM on April 26, 2018 [1 favorite]

GEDmatch, kind of a meta-DNA testing site, has what almost amounts to a warning that the believe their site was used in the search.
posted by drezdn at 10:38 AM on April 27, 2018

When "data wants to be free" hits up against the police state. This is going to be super interesting to read papers on in about a year.
posted by I'm Not Even Supposed To Be Here Today! at 11:10 AM on April 27, 2018 [2 favorites]

I'm actually more OK with the use of GEDmatch for something like this, vs. Ancestry or 23andMe. There are a lot of people who uploaded their DNA to those two services who are only interested in the health profile or in a vague look at their "genetic ancestry" as portrayed in commercials, like "Turns out I'm 20% dutch!" I have a ton of genetic matches, even really close ones, who are clearly not interested in the genealogy uses of DNA.

In my opinion GEDmatch has a more informed population of users. I have been thinking about this for a few days and I think overall I am more uncomfortable with the way companies are marketing DNA products to people who don't really understand what they are signing up for, than I am with what comes down to police using a commercial database for basically its intended purpose.
posted by muddgirl at 11:33 AM on April 27, 2018 [7 favorites]

Genealogy site didn't know it was used to seek serial killer
posted by Lexica at 11:41 AM on April 27, 2018

The arraignment is about to be livestreamed
posted by I'm Not Even Supposed To Be Here Today! at 1:44 PM on April 27, 2018

arg. most of the livestreams aren't working. The one I found that is, the audio is busted.
posted by I'm Not Even Supposed To Be Here Today! at 2:02 PM on April 27, 2018

The NYT has a little bit more information about the forensic genealogy aspect of this case.
posted by muddgirl at 2:49 PM on April 27, 2018 [1 favorite]

Maybe someone can explain the concern over using these DNA databases? I don't get it. That company has a "private" and a "public" option. People uploaded DNA info and set the permissions to have it be public to help people learn who is related to whom. The police used this publicly available data to learn who is related to whom. Yeah, it sucks for serial killers who leave their DNA all over multiple crime scenes that this has become a thing, but they can be caught through other people's actions in other ways as well. I honestly don't see the problem.
posted by salvia at 4:44 PM on April 27, 2018 [4 favorites]

Well I'm a little less concerned that they used GEDmatch, which is a site where there are no privacy guarantees when people upload their data. The big Ancestry and 23 and Me type commercial sites at least give the appearance of maintaining privacy and have statements that their databases are not for forensic use, so the idea of the police using them raises serious questions about informed consent.

The problem is complicated, because DNA has a lot of meanings. It is health information, and family information, and potentially forensic information. The police accessed all of that without a warrant. Because it is publicly available on the internet.

What concerns me personally is the idea that my third cousin uploads their DNA and it comes back as a match to some case the police are investigating because some other relative of mine I may not have any contact with committed a crime. And the police go through my entire family systematically to find a suspect. How much are they allowed to do based on that? Are they surveilling me? Are they talking to my employer? They definitely took DNA from the killer's trash to confirm he was the guy. Did they do that to more people in the family than just him?

If a familial DNA match is enough to make someone a suspect, and a warrant isn't necessary to obtain the DNA match, it seems ripe for abuse by law enforcement. Obviously in the case of a monster like this it seems justified. I'm not concerned by the privacy rights either of the criminal or the family member who put their DNA on the internet. But they looked at every male in that family to track him down...
posted by threeturtles at 5:10 PM on April 27, 2018 [2 favorites]

What concerns me personally is the idea that my third cousin uploads their DNA and it comes back as a match to some case the police are investigating because some other relative of mine I may not have any contact with committed a crime.

I mean, that's how investigations work. They don't need a warrant for a lot of investigative activity that is in the public sphere. The witness says they saw a grey Pontiac with a for sale sign at the crime scene, the cops don't need a warrant to go on Craigslist looking for a grey pontiac. They would likely need a warrant to have the Pontiac dealership turn over all of their sales records.
posted by muddgirl at 8:17 PM on April 27, 2018 [3 favorites]

But yes, I agree that DNA is way more personal than anything else we can use as an example, but it's not marketed that way by people who offer DNA tests.

GEDmatch, I will note, does not offer any tests themselves. Anyone who wants their data on GEDmatch has to download their data from another provider and explicitely upload it on GEDmatch. There are also more granular privacy settings than with providers like Ancestry.
posted by muddgirl at 8:21 PM on April 27, 2018

What concerns me personally is the idea that my third cousin uploads their DNA and it comes back as a match to some case... Are they surveilling me?

I agree that would be concerning to learn. But how is that different from conventional police practice? Say they used old phone books to identify men who lived in the Sacramento suburbs, moved to Southern California, and had previous military or police service, then surveilled those [5-10?] men long enough to get a discarded DNA sample? Or suppose a restaurant server called the tip line saying she overheard a patron telling his friend about the murders. Wouldn't they work their way through everyone who swiped a credit card that evening? Aren't those other diners in jeopardy through no fault of their own just as some third cousin would be?

I do completely understand the issue with using data that's behind a privacy wall. There should be a way to learn about your DNA without being exposed like that. It's the publicly available data that seems like fair game to me.

And I don't want to sound like I think the police never charge the wrong person. The Innocence Project just got two men released after having wrongly served two decades, sadly. But to me, that comes down to the strength of the final evidence, having public defenders offices that are adequately staffed, etc. It's important to keep innocent people from being charged and convicted, regardless of whether the original list of suspects came from a phone book or a DNA database.
posted by salvia at 9:09 PM on April 27, 2018

I'm Not Even Supposed To Be Here Today!: "Yeah, and they also talk about how much time & effort he spent avoiding capture as if he knew what could be linked to him. But they still fell on the side of ex-con."

Profiles to an extent are numbers games; everything else being equal there are a lot more ex-cons than cops (even if you just assign the overlap to the cop side).
posted by Mitheral at 9:17 PM on April 27, 2018

Regarding the question of identifying multiple suspects via the familial DNA method: "over the years, investigators ruled out about 8,000 suspects, Pool said."
posted by salvia at 9:57 PM on April 27, 2018

A little more on the genetics search: in 2017 they had enough suspicion of a guy in a nursing home in Oregon to get a warrant to swab his DNA. "Probable cause" is the threshold for a warrant in general, right? Dear lawyers in the house, does this translate at all into probability of the math kind, like your "probable" thing should be more than 50% likely? Can that extend to "we're highly confident it's one of these 100 guys"?

This article also has this about the level of suspicion he might be a cop, in Sacramento:

In fact, officers assigned to a special task force were required to submit saliva samples to exclude anyone who shared a genetic trait, Phillips said. About 85 percent of people secrete their blood type in saliva and body fluids, but the rape suspect was in the roughly 15 percent who didn't.

"Obviously, you didn't want the East Area Rapist on the team," Phillips said. "That turned out to be a pretty good concern."

posted by away for regrooving at 1:16 AM on April 28, 2018 [7 favorites]

There's a lot of talk about this on DNA search/genealogy groups... The general belief is that law enforcement can and has used sites like GEDmatch where you can upload raw DNA files, but that they can't (so far as we know) use sites like Ancestry and 23andme where a test needs to be physically submitted to get a match.
posted by drezdn at 8:14 AM on April 28, 2018

I haven't read the book, but can anyone who has verify or not that MM's research ended up lining up with whodunit in any way?
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:28 PM on April 28, 2018

Her actual research didn't. The answer isn't in the book. The actual GSK was a completely unknown in all investigations - no one had pointed to him before as far as i know. But, she did a loooooot of background research that was valuable, and more importantly she gave this case a huge shining spotlight to make people care, to make it a priority (if only for PR reasons at times, it seemed), to reinvigorate the whole true crime community behind it. Cold cases get solved often because people care. MM made people care in incredibly broad and vast ways but also deeply personal ways. I don't think he'd be in prison today if she hadn't made it a mission to find him.
posted by I'm Not Even Supposed To Be Here Today! at 6:33 PM on April 28, 2018 [2 favorites]

Additionally, there’s a chapter near the end about the possibility of using public DNA databases to try to track the guy down. Several people, including Holes, were apparently regularly submitting partial data to try and get a match, starting in 2013!
posted by amanda at 4:52 AM on April 29, 2018 [3 favorites]

The East Area Rapist Could Have Been Identified as a Suspect Before 1980

Less attention has been given to the strong possibility that the suspect could have been identified in the 1970s, without DNA evidence, perhaps before the first Sacramento murders in 1978 (for which he has now been charged) and certainly before his murderous spree in Southern California began at the end of 1979. One significant reason he was not identified is that Sacramento County law enforcement, and subsequent investigators in other parts of California, failed to consider systematically the chance that the EAR was, or had been a policeman, and consequently failed to search systematically among active or recently terminated policemen. I am not arguing that there was enough evidence in the 1970s to convict the accused at that time – we will never know that — but that there was enough evidence to identify today’s accused as a “person of interest” in the Sacramento rapes as early as February 1977.

posted by the man of twists and turns at 7:01 PM on May 10, 2018 [5 favorites]

Another arrest shows why no one can hide from the genetic detectives

For the second time this year, investigators used a public DNA database to solve a cold case and find a murderer.

The bust: A 55-year-old truck driver, William Talbott, was arrested today in Washington State after being fingered in a 30-year-old double murder.

From a recent FPP, anyone who isn't in a DNA database could be soon:

...in August, President Trump signed the Rapid DNA Act of 2017, allowing law enforcement to use new technology that produces DNA results in just 90 minutes. The bill had bipartisan support and received little press. But privacy advocates worry it may usher in an era of widespread "stop and spit" policing, in which law enforcement asks anyone they stop for a DNA sample. This is already occurring in towns in Florida, Connecticut, North Carolina, and Pennsylvania, according to reporting by ProPublica. If law enforcement deems there is probable cause, they can compel someone to provide DNA; otherwise, it is voluntary.

posted by XMLicious at 3:59 AM on May 20, 2018 [1 favorite]