Just remember there's a lot of bad, and beware.
April 26, 2018 6:15 AM Subscribe
Cat Stevens (now Yusuf Islam), 1970, Tea For The Tillerman. Side A: Where Do The Children Play?, Hard Headed Woman, Wild World, Sad Lisa, Miles From Nowhere
Side B: But I Might Die Tonight, Longer Boats, Into White, On The Road To Findout, Father And Son, Tea For The Tillerman
Side B: But I Might Die Tonight, Longer Boats, Into White, On The Road To Findout, Father And Son, Tea For The Tillerman
"On The Road To Find Out" was my senior-year-in-high-school jam.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:54 AM on April 26, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:54 AM on April 26, 2018 [2 favorites]
I am trying to remember what famous piece of feminist music criticism uses "Wild World" as an example of a song with truly sexist lyrics, as opposed to other songs that seem more overtly misogynistic. (Found it. It's Ellen Willis. She thought it was worse than Under My Thumb, which she saw as a less-gendered expression of aggression. I think it's a bad argument, but she's not wrong about Wild World being fucked up.) Maybe try dating someone whom you see as an equal and a grownup?
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:57 AM on April 26, 2018 [9 favorites]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:57 AM on April 26, 2018 [9 favorites]
I never really liked Cat Stevens. He always struck me as being mawkish,
posted by Katjusa Roquette at 7:08 AM on April 26, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by Katjusa Roquette at 7:08 AM on April 26, 2018 [1 favorite]
I have long suspected that Cat Stevens doesn't actually think it's fine building jumbo planes.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 7:18 AM on April 26, 2018 [11 favorites]
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 7:18 AM on April 26, 2018 [11 favorites]
I've always always hated how condescending "Wild World" is.
posted by goatdog at 7:20 AM on April 26, 2018 [5 favorites]
posted by goatdog at 7:20 AM on April 26, 2018 [5 favorites]
So, what, these album conversations are now going to be dominated by the people who dislike the album right out of the gate?
come on.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:25 AM on April 26, 2018 [35 favorites]
come on.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:25 AM on April 26, 2018 [35 favorites]
i think wild world is totally misunderstood - i think an argument can be made that it's a totally unreliable narrator - a paranoid, bitter man who is unable to get along with the world around him warning a woman that it's awful out there - which is, of course, the very reason she's got to leave him, because he's such an anti-social misanthrope
it took me a long time, but that's how i see the song now
posted by pyramid termite at 7:28 AM on April 26, 2018 [15 favorites]
it took me a long time, but that's how i see the song now
posted by pyramid termite at 7:28 AM on April 26, 2018 [15 favorites]
This is one of my go-to albums when I want to show off my home hi fi system. I think the mixing/engineering is fantastic in that it gives the passive woofers in the ol' KG4s quite the workout with the double bass hitting so low then the keyboards and percussion instruments hit, giving the tweeters a nice workout as well. I also like that sometimes you hear the pick hitting the strings more than the sound that the strings on the acoustic guitar actually produce. It's a very intimate album lyrically, musically, and in the performance as well. Sometimes I swear that the music is being played live in my living room.
Here's a pretty good discussion on the engineering of the album. Some people hate it, but others, like me, truly love it.
posted by NoMich at 7:29 AM on April 26, 2018 [7 favorites]
Here's a pretty good discussion on the engineering of the album. Some people hate it, but others, like me, truly love it.
posted by NoMich at 7:29 AM on April 26, 2018 [7 favorites]
One of my worst memories. Boxing Day. 2007 or maybe 2006. We're Americans living in Vancouver, British Columbia. It's winter, so of course it's gray and drizzly and cold. My mother is out from the East Coat for Christmas, and we're not entirely sure what to do with her, so we decide to take her to Victoria. There's all kinds of cool museums and restaurants and that neat hotel where they do high tea every afternoon and some guy tried to feed pepperoni to seagulls. We'll take the ferry out and spend the day there and have a good time.
One. We're late getting going, and in trying to make the ferry on time I get a speeding ticket on Granville Street. Apparently this is what Vancouver Police do on Boxing Day. They set up speed traps on Granville Street. Sigh.
Two. We just make the ferry and get to Vancouver Island, where we are promptly caught in the biggest traffic jam I have ever seen. We're stuck until damn near lunch time. We eventually discover it's what appears to be the entire populace trying to get into the same mall at one time, like those old photos of college students cramming into phone booths. This is our first clue that Boxing Day is something different in Canada than what we are used to in the states (i.e., nothing in particular).
Three. We reach Victoria and park near the beautiful Inner Harbor with all its nice museums and shops and restaurants. Its drizzling rain and it's cold, but that's to be expected. We immediately discover that practically everything is closed. Because it's Boxing Day. This is our second clue that Boxing Day is something different in Canada than what we are used to in the states.
Four. We try to make the best of it, because what else can we do? Part one. Instead of the beautiful, sophisticated seafood restaurant that does a really fantastic salmon on a cedar plank, we eat bad cheeseburgers in a greasy spoon diner. My mother has a salad. A guy is fast asleep in the booth in the corner. For all I know, he lives there.
Five. We try to make the best of it, because what else can we do? Part two. [And this is where this becomes relevant, by the way, in case you're just skimming.] The Royal BC Museum is closed. The Victoria isn't doing high tea today. Nothing is open. It's Boxing Day. Why the hell aren't we at the mall with everyone else? We find the one and only attraction where we might pass some time before our evening ferry back that is actually open: The Pacific Undersea Gardens. (apparently it closed in 2013, just seven or eight years too late).
This is basically some kind of barge-like structure that's been sunk in the harbor. Today it looks abandoned. But there are two teenagers, resentful that they have to work on Boxing Day. They can't figure out why the hell we're at the Pacific Undersea Gardens, of all places, instead of at the mall. If anything they seem to resent us because we confirm their boss's idea that if he makes them open today, somebody will show up. Their lousy Boxing Day is all our fault now.
So we get our tickets and go downstairs beneath the surface of the harbor. Dim light. Steel. Gray marine paint. Water drips from the ceiling and oozes around the heads of rivets. There is no one else here. Aging, scuffed plexiglass panels reveal tanks of water over gravel beds. There is no color anywhere. All is gray. In the tanks, the fish are gray, torpid. They are bored. This is their life. Stone, cold water, steel walls bubbling with gray marine paint. Sometimes a face appears, then moves on.
The one bonus for the teenagers running the place on Boxing Day is apparently, because no one is going to show up anyway, they can listen to whatever they want over the sound system. These are teenagers in the mid 2000s, but somehow, impossibly, (perhaps ironically, who can really say) given this freedom, the music they have chosen is Cat Stevens Greatest Hits.
So there I am, speeding ticket in my pocket, the taste of fries cooked in very old oil still lingering in my mouth, my mother trying to pretend she's having a good time because that's just how she is. I'm standing in front of a dingy fish tank containing a single grouper. Father and Son plays through the speakers in the ceiling. The Baby Boom generation tells their parents how they just don't understand, man. I look at the grouper. The grouper looks at me. Its mouth opens, closes, opens, closes. And I can see it in its grouper face, that fish actually feels sorry for me.
I still can't listen to Cat Stevens.
posted by Naberius at 7:39 AM on April 26, 2018 [32 favorites]
One. We're late getting going, and in trying to make the ferry on time I get a speeding ticket on Granville Street. Apparently this is what Vancouver Police do on Boxing Day. They set up speed traps on Granville Street. Sigh.
Two. We just make the ferry and get to Vancouver Island, where we are promptly caught in the biggest traffic jam I have ever seen. We're stuck until damn near lunch time. We eventually discover it's what appears to be the entire populace trying to get into the same mall at one time, like those old photos of college students cramming into phone booths. This is our first clue that Boxing Day is something different in Canada than what we are used to in the states (i.e., nothing in particular).
Three. We reach Victoria and park near the beautiful Inner Harbor with all its nice museums and shops and restaurants. Its drizzling rain and it's cold, but that's to be expected. We immediately discover that practically everything is closed. Because it's Boxing Day. This is our second clue that Boxing Day is something different in Canada than what we are used to in the states.
Four. We try to make the best of it, because what else can we do? Part one. Instead of the beautiful, sophisticated seafood restaurant that does a really fantastic salmon on a cedar plank, we eat bad cheeseburgers in a greasy spoon diner. My mother has a salad. A guy is fast asleep in the booth in the corner. For all I know, he lives there.
Five. We try to make the best of it, because what else can we do? Part two. [And this is where this becomes relevant, by the way, in case you're just skimming.] The Royal BC Museum is closed. The Victoria isn't doing high tea today. Nothing is open. It's Boxing Day. Why the hell aren't we at the mall with everyone else? We find the one and only attraction where we might pass some time before our evening ferry back that is actually open: The Pacific Undersea Gardens. (apparently it closed in 2013, just seven or eight years too late).
This is basically some kind of barge-like structure that's been sunk in the harbor. Today it looks abandoned. But there are two teenagers, resentful that they have to work on Boxing Day. They can't figure out why the hell we're at the Pacific Undersea Gardens, of all places, instead of at the mall. If anything they seem to resent us because we confirm their boss's idea that if he makes them open today, somebody will show up. Their lousy Boxing Day is all our fault now.
So we get our tickets and go downstairs beneath the surface of the harbor. Dim light. Steel. Gray marine paint. Water drips from the ceiling and oozes around the heads of rivets. There is no one else here. Aging, scuffed plexiglass panels reveal tanks of water over gravel beds. There is no color anywhere. All is gray. In the tanks, the fish are gray, torpid. They are bored. This is their life. Stone, cold water, steel walls bubbling with gray marine paint. Sometimes a face appears, then moves on.
The one bonus for the teenagers running the place on Boxing Day is apparently, because no one is going to show up anyway, they can listen to whatever they want over the sound system. These are teenagers in the mid 2000s, but somehow, impossibly, (perhaps ironically, who can really say) given this freedom, the music they have chosen is Cat Stevens Greatest Hits.
So there I am, speeding ticket in my pocket, the taste of fries cooked in very old oil still lingering in my mouth, my mother trying to pretend she's having a good time because that's just how she is. I'm standing in front of a dingy fish tank containing a single grouper. Father and Son plays through the speakers in the ceiling. The Baby Boom generation tells their parents how they just don't understand, man. I look at the grouper. The grouper looks at me. Its mouth opens, closes, opens, closes. And I can see it in its grouper face, that fish actually feels sorry for me.
I still can't listen to Cat Stevens.
posted by Naberius at 7:39 AM on April 26, 2018 [32 favorites]
So, what, these album conversations are now going to be dominated by the people who dislike the album right out of the gate?
I'm sensitive to this, although I think there's a difference between disliking an album because you don't like the sound and disliking it because of the misogynistic tone.
On the other hand, this kind of tone was hardly uncommon during the time period the album was recorded. A lot of classic rock songs come off as the rantings of an obsessed stalker when read as prose.
Is there something specifically about this album that creates the unique reaction? I'm not sure. I suspect that a lot of people are like me in that they find the music really beautiful, but the lyrics troubling, and that's a very frustrated place to be.
posted by selfnoise at 7:56 AM on April 26, 2018 [4 favorites]
I'm sensitive to this, although I think there's a difference between disliking an album because you don't like the sound and disliking it because of the misogynistic tone.
On the other hand, this kind of tone was hardly uncommon during the time period the album was recorded. A lot of classic rock songs come off as the rantings of an obsessed stalker when read as prose.
Is there something specifically about this album that creates the unique reaction? I'm not sure. I suspect that a lot of people are like me in that they find the music really beautiful, but the lyrics troubling, and that's a very frustrated place to be.
posted by selfnoise at 7:56 AM on April 26, 2018 [4 favorites]
I'm sensitive to this, although I think there's a difference between disliking an album because you don't like the sound and disliking it because of the misogynistic tone.
My point is that the post was just put up, and while these are valid points, can we not allow the people who like the album to have a chance to say something first so the dicussion can have a little more balance to it?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:02 AM on April 26, 2018 [7 favorites]
My point is that the post was just put up, and while these are valid points, can we not allow the people who like the album to have a chance to say something first so the dicussion can have a little more balance to it?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:02 AM on April 26, 2018 [7 favorites]
Roger that. Come on, guys. It's not that hard to scroll on by if you don't like the artist or the album.
My favorite Cat Stevens song is one hardly anyone knows he wrote: "The First Cut is the Deepest." And don't even talk to me about the Rod Stewart version; the song belongs to PP Arnold, imo.
posted by holborne at 8:07 AM on April 26, 2018 [6 favorites]
My favorite Cat Stevens song is one hardly anyone knows he wrote: "The First Cut is the Deepest." And don't even talk to me about the Rod Stewart version; the song belongs to PP Arnold, imo.
posted by holborne at 8:07 AM on April 26, 2018 [6 favorites]
Thank God the Bush Administration refused entry to this mellow acoustic beard dude and protected America from this monster's soft bittersweet melodies.
posted by Sangermaine at 8:14 AM on April 26, 2018 [6 favorites]
posted by Sangermaine at 8:14 AM on April 26, 2018 [6 favorites]
Early '80's, around grade 8, (so pre-drinking or drugs or anything) this album was one we'd put on and "get mellow" to in a big performative, candle-and-incense-lighting way. We were so enlightened and sophisticated.
posted by chococat at 8:19 AM on April 26, 2018 [6 favorites]
posted by chococat at 8:19 AM on April 26, 2018 [6 favorites]
Does it make a difference that he claims he wrote it as a cautionary message to himself?
posted by olopua at 8:33 AM on April 26, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by olopua at 8:33 AM on April 26, 2018 [4 favorites]
Listened to this hundreds of times in high school. Probably shaped me in strange and mystical ways... which could be worse, really. There was a flavor... of the importance of mysticism in the air in the early 70s, which I'll have to think about... for certain of us (or something like that) the euphoria of the 60s morphed into a devotion to the spiritual (or something like that): Cat Stevens being certainly one of the ones carrying that banner. Anyway too, it was fun to see (hear) Father and Son used at the end of Guardians of the Galaxy II...
The other Cat Stevens trivia is that I had a girlfriend for a while who claimed (rather convincingly, but you never know) that Foreigner Suite was written to her, after a summer on a Greek Island...
posted by emmet at 8:41 AM on April 26, 2018 [1 favorite]
The other Cat Stevens trivia is that I had a girlfriend for a while who claimed (rather convincingly, but you never know) that Foreigner Suite was written to her, after a summer on a Greek Island...
posted by emmet at 8:41 AM on April 26, 2018 [1 favorite]
Does it make a difference... maybe? He said that 39 years after he recorded it, so he might be giving an accurate picture of what he was thinking back in 1970, or he might have changed his mind without realizing it, or he might be reacting against people's criticisms of the song, or it might be a combination of things. Probably the latter. (And maybe the Chris Isaak interview isn't the first time he said this, in which case, I withdraw my speculation.)
posted by goatdog at 8:42 AM on April 26, 2018
posted by goatdog at 8:42 AM on April 26, 2018
a paranoid, bitter man who is unable to get along with the world around him warning a woman that it's awful out there - which is, of course, the very reason she's got to leave him, because he's such an anti-social misanthrope
That is the song, basically. It's a lovely song with bitter, unhappy lyrics. I imagine that it sounded less creepy at the time, but it's hard to imagine that it sounded less bitter. Which is why you shouldn't listen to the lyrics at all and just hum "da da da da da da da da."
But that's Stevens at this period, the producer of absolutely gorgeous records with songs that all sound like they were written by a pretty troubled dude.
It's said that "Wild World" and "My Lady D'Arbanville" were both written about Patti D'Arbanville who had been involved with Stevens at the time. (The latter is an interesting but clumsy piece of Pre-Raphaelite-esque pastiche, IMO, with all of the faults and none of the charm of the former. I mean, how much more "M'lady" can you get than a song actually called "M'lady"?)
By the by, Don Johnson made Heartbeat shortly after breaking up with D'Arbanville, so maybe she had that effect on men.
Of the records I've heard—I've never listened to most of his later stuff—Catch Bull At Four is probably my favorite.
posted by octobersurprise at 8:57 AM on April 26, 2018 [1 favorite]
That is the song, basically. It's a lovely song with bitter, unhappy lyrics. I imagine that it sounded less creepy at the time, but it's hard to imagine that it sounded less bitter. Which is why you shouldn't listen to the lyrics at all and just hum "da da da da da da da da."
But that's Stevens at this period, the producer of absolutely gorgeous records with songs that all sound like they were written by a pretty troubled dude.
It's said that "Wild World" and "My Lady D'Arbanville" were both written about Patti D'Arbanville who had been involved with Stevens at the time. (The latter is an interesting but clumsy piece of Pre-Raphaelite-esque pastiche, IMO, with all of the faults and none of the charm of the former. I mean, how much more "M'lady" can you get than a song actually called "M'lady"?)
By the by, Don Johnson made Heartbeat shortly after breaking up with D'Arbanville, so maybe she had that effect on men.
Of the records I've heard—I've never listened to most of his later stuff—Catch Bull At Four is probably my favorite.
posted by octobersurprise at 8:57 AM on April 26, 2018 [1 favorite]
(Here's a recent piece on D'Arbanville's life and her work at the Tryon (NC) Arts and Crafts School.)
posted by octobersurprise at 9:13 AM on April 26, 2018
posted by octobersurprise at 9:13 AM on April 26, 2018
Oh how I love Cat Stevens. Other music even from that time doesn't make me as sentimental and teary-eyed as his does. Is it really true he renounced his early music? That makes me sad since I find most of it so lovely and tender.
posted by kitcat at 9:13 AM on April 26, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by kitcat at 9:13 AM on April 26, 2018 [2 favorites]
Other art forms don't have this problem with depictions of badly behaving characters. You expect movies and novels to have misogynists and people doing bad things. The singer-songwriter tradition with the first-person lyric often has this expectation of moral behaviour.
Both "Wild World" and "Lady D'Arbanville" were inspired by his breakup with Patti D'Arbanville. "Lady D'Arbanville" imagines her dead so maybe that wins for creepiness.
posted by bhnyc at 9:26 AM on April 26, 2018 [2 favorites]
Both "Wild World" and "Lady D'Arbanville" were inspired by his breakup with Patti D'Arbanville. "Lady D'Arbanville" imagines her dead so maybe that wins for creepiness.
posted by bhnyc at 9:26 AM on April 26, 2018 [2 favorites]
Is it really true he renounced his early music? That makes me sad since I find most of it so lovely and tender.
Only temporarily, and only immediately after his conversion to Islam. He's since said that it was a zeal-of-the-new-convert kind of thing happening, where he was trying to fling himself full-tilt-to-the-max into proper Muslim conduct and comportment and that lead him to some places that he later realized were a little more hard-line than he agreed with.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:37 AM on April 26, 2018 [2 favorites]
Only temporarily, and only immediately after his conversion to Islam. He's since said that it was a zeal-of-the-new-convert kind of thing happening, where he was trying to fling himself full-tilt-to-the-max into proper Muslim conduct and comportment and that lead him to some places that he later realized were a little more hard-line than he agreed with.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:37 AM on April 26, 2018 [2 favorites]
I sing Miles from Nowhere to myself, or sometimes outloud, in situations where I need to endure something -- hiking in bad weather, working late, long waits, etc. It's been quite a soothing habit for me to have an "endurance song" to remind me that I can get through this.
posted by rube goldberg at 9:51 AM on April 26, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by rube goldberg at 9:51 AM on April 26, 2018 [3 favorites]
I grew up listening to Cat Stevens, thanks to my parents, and love his work. He's definitely sentimental, but there's something nice about his vulnerability and ability to capture emotion. Besides his musical skill, I like him most for writing so many songs about topics other than romantic love. Most music on the radio is about heterosexual romance, which I'm sure gets old to everyone, but was perhaps especially unmoving to me as a little baby gay. I loved hearing songs that addressed more global topics like wondering about identify and aging and making decisions in life. Moonshadow and Miles From Nowhere were my favorite songs for years. Father & Son is masterful.
Like most media I enjoy, he reminds me of the Futurama parody of MASH where the Hawkbot has a switch on his back that toggles him between "irreverent" and "maudlin" modes. It's not fully a bad thing.
"Wild World" does strike me as condescending and sexist, and I'm not sure it's exactly an unreliable narrator. To me, it embodies the ugly, bitter things you might say and feel during a breakup that you don't actually believe (or which you have lied to yourself about being too good of a person to believe). Whether Cat was attempting to deconstruct those bitter thoughts or play them straight, he definitely captures them. I can't say I enjoy the song but it also feels very real to me.
As an artist, I think many of his songs are purposefully ambivalent or opaque about the emotions they're expressing. He doesn't really spell out how you're supposed to feel - or if he does, it's a complex mix of emotions. I see Wild World as falling firmly in that boat.
posted by Emily's Fist at 9:59 AM on April 26, 2018 [4 favorites]
Like most media I enjoy, he reminds me of the Futurama parody of MASH where the Hawkbot has a switch on his back that toggles him between "irreverent" and "maudlin" modes. It's not fully a bad thing.
"Wild World" does strike me as condescending and sexist, and I'm not sure it's exactly an unreliable narrator. To me, it embodies the ugly, bitter things you might say and feel during a breakup that you don't actually believe (or which you have lied to yourself about being too good of a person to believe). Whether Cat was attempting to deconstruct those bitter thoughts or play them straight, he definitely captures them. I can't say I enjoy the song but it also feels very real to me.
As an artist, I think many of his songs are purposefully ambivalent or opaque about the emotions they're expressing. He doesn't really spell out how you're supposed to feel - or if he does, it's a complex mix of emotions. I see Wild World as falling firmly in that boat.
posted by Emily's Fist at 9:59 AM on April 26, 2018 [4 favorites]
I listened to this a lot with my dad and Teaser and the Firecat with my mom. I still like them both and listen often to think back to those days. I'm not too into production techniques and equipment, but this album has a great sound to me. I do miss the weird noises in "Father and Son" but it turns out that was a bad spot on our record that ended up sounding like it fit.
As for "Wild World," I can understand the interpretations and criticisms here but I always heard it as a reasonably sweet song from a father to a daughter. It still comes off a tad controlling but more worried and hopeful the way I hear it. I may be 'wrong' if that's even possible with a personal interpretation of a song, but I'd rather keep thinking of it that way.
posted by Clinging to the Wreckage at 10:05 AM on April 26, 2018 [2 favorites]
As for "Wild World," I can understand the interpretations and criticisms here but I always heard it as a reasonably sweet song from a father to a daughter. It still comes off a tad controlling but more worried and hopeful the way I hear it. I may be 'wrong' if that's even possible with a personal interpretation of a song, but I'd rather keep thinking of it that way.
posted by Clinging to the Wreckage at 10:05 AM on April 26, 2018 [2 favorites]
Trying and failing to imagine what Harold & Maude would be without the Cat Stevens soundtrack. Is there any movie whose emotional effects hinge so heavily upon the songs of a single artist? (Maybe The Graduate?)
Anyway, I love 'em both—the songs and the film.
posted by Atom Eyes at 10:11 AM on April 26, 2018 [16 favorites]
Anyway, I love 'em both—the songs and the film.
posted by Atom Eyes at 10:11 AM on April 26, 2018 [16 favorites]
Other art forms don't have this problem with depictions of badly behaving characters. You expect movies and novels to have misogynists and people doing bad things. The singer-songwriter tradition with the first-person lyric often has this expectation of moral behaviour.
I feel like that's a much bigger thing with most media these days. No bad people, no bad things or events, or no ambivalence about them anyway, everything must be hero or villain and clearly spelled out.
Actually, it seem like a lot of people approach other real people this way too most of the time these days.
posted by bongo_x at 10:20 AM on April 26, 2018 [3 favorites]
I feel like that's a much bigger thing with most media these days. No bad people, no bad things or events, or no ambivalence about them anyway, everything must be hero or villain and clearly spelled out.
Actually, it seem like a lot of people approach other real people this way too most of the time these days.
posted by bongo_x at 10:20 AM on April 26, 2018 [3 favorites]
I go through phases where I adore this music and phases where I can't stand it. The arrangements are generally splendid, a weird, often minimal blend of R&B and East End theater, which were Stevens' two greatest influences. I like his voice, both at its oddly old sounding grumble (he was scarcely out of being a teenager when he made this album) and when it cants upward to hysteria.
But there is no getting around that Stevens' view of women in this, and his earlier albums, is troubling. He said at the time that he wanted to write music for films, and that's definitely something filmmakers have heard in his music, and I think it is telling that the first film to make use of one of his songs was "The Deep End," which used "But I Might Die Tonight" over its opening a closing credits. The film, now-little-seen, tells of a callow and very immature young man who develops an entirely unhealthy obsession with his coworker at an English bath house, who (SPOILER) he basically murders at the end.
Of course, a lot of this album was used in Harold and Maud, which is a sort of twee cornerstone, but it's worth remembering that Harold is an absolute monster toward most of the women in the film, relentlessly torturing his mother with fakes suicides and behaving extremely badly to the women she wants to set him up with, including Sunshine, who may actually accidentally kill herself duplicating Harold's shenanigans (there is a moment where we see real blood on her blade, and Harold stands above her, horrified; it's ambiguous what happened to her). So, you know, something about Stevens' lyrics seems to link up with filmmakers representing misogyny.
"Tea for the Tillerman" was used as the closing theme for Extras, where Ricky Gervais is often an insensitive clod as a background actor and becomes absolutely intolerable when he gets his own show, which I would say is an example of Gervais being unusual clear-eyed about himself and about Stevens, but lately I have decided to give Stephen Merchant credit for everything really smart in Gervais' work.
Anyway, I think there is something to the sense that Stevens had real issues with women. Still, the moment he pitches into his falsetto in the title song is absolutely thrilling, so there are pleasures to be found on the album as well.
posted by maxsparber at 10:40 AM on April 26, 2018 [2 favorites]
But there is no getting around that Stevens' view of women in this, and his earlier albums, is troubling. He said at the time that he wanted to write music for films, and that's definitely something filmmakers have heard in his music, and I think it is telling that the first film to make use of one of his songs was "The Deep End," which used "But I Might Die Tonight" over its opening a closing credits. The film, now-little-seen, tells of a callow and very immature young man who develops an entirely unhealthy obsession with his coworker at an English bath house, who (SPOILER) he basically murders at the end.
Of course, a lot of this album was used in Harold and Maud, which is a sort of twee cornerstone, but it's worth remembering that Harold is an absolute monster toward most of the women in the film, relentlessly torturing his mother with fakes suicides and behaving extremely badly to the women she wants to set him up with, including Sunshine, who may actually accidentally kill herself duplicating Harold's shenanigans (there is a moment where we see real blood on her blade, and Harold stands above her, horrified; it's ambiguous what happened to her). So, you know, something about Stevens' lyrics seems to link up with filmmakers representing misogyny.
"Tea for the Tillerman" was used as the closing theme for Extras, where Ricky Gervais is often an insensitive clod as a background actor and becomes absolutely intolerable when he gets his own show, which I would say is an example of Gervais being unusual clear-eyed about himself and about Stevens, but lately I have decided to give Stephen Merchant credit for everything really smart in Gervais' work.
Anyway, I think there is something to the sense that Stevens had real issues with women. Still, the moment he pitches into his falsetto in the title song is absolutely thrilling, so there are pleasures to be found on the album as well.
posted by maxsparber at 10:40 AM on April 26, 2018 [2 favorites]
In case Naberius wants to get one up on the fish, I will relate the story of an under housed buddy of mine who would go down to to the Undersea Gardens in the dead of night and fish there until he got something good enough to sell to one of the local restaurants (surely not the one with the "really fantastic salmon" though). From Naberius' story it now sounds like my buddy was doing the fish a favour.
/Back to slicing and dicing Cat Stevens...
posted by not_that_epiphanius at 10:46 AM on April 26, 2018
/Back to slicing and dicing Cat Stevens...
posted by not_that_epiphanius at 10:46 AM on April 26, 2018
Er, West End theater.
Stevens parents owned a restaurant near the theater district, and also just blocks from London's version of Tin Pan Alley, so those were his big influences.
posted by maxsparber at 10:47 AM on April 26, 2018
Stevens parents owned a restaurant near the theater district, and also just blocks from London's version of Tin Pan Alley, so those were his big influences.
posted by maxsparber at 10:47 AM on April 26, 2018
My favorite Cat Stevens song is one hardly anyone knows he wrote: "The First Cut is the Deepest." And don't even talk to me about the Rod Stewart version; the song belongs to PP Arnold, imo. yt
Up until the end, I thought this sentence was going in a Keith Hampshire direction, but thanks for introducing me to PP Arnold.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 10:54 AM on April 26, 2018 [2 favorites]
Up until the end, I thought this sentence was going in a Keith Hampshire direction, but thanks for introducing me to PP Arnold.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 10:54 AM on April 26, 2018 [2 favorites]
So, what, these album conversations are now going to be dominated by the people who dislike the album right out of the gate?
whereas I was going to be sort of post-hipster and say, Tillerman's okay but I'm more partial to his later stuff. Actually, one album in particular. Catch Bull At Four. 18th Avenue to name just one track.
as for the Cat himself, this 1976 live take on Peace Train speaks volumes for me, where an almost obnoxious intro ("this song ... I tell you this song, basically ... it's made me a lot of money this song") gets utterly knee capped by a nigh-on perfect performance. And then, less than a year later, he'd converted to Islam, disowned everything. Complicated man.
posted by philip-random at 11:01 AM on April 26, 2018
whereas I was going to be sort of post-hipster and say, Tillerman's okay but I'm more partial to his later stuff. Actually, one album in particular. Catch Bull At Four. 18th Avenue to name just one track.
as for the Cat himself, this 1976 live take on Peace Train speaks volumes for me, where an almost obnoxious intro ("this song ... I tell you this song, basically ... it's made me a lot of money this song") gets utterly knee capped by a nigh-on perfect performance. And then, less than a year later, he'd converted to Islam, disowned everything. Complicated man.
posted by philip-random at 11:01 AM on April 26, 2018
Up until the end, I thought this sentence was going in a Keith Hampshire yt direction,
spoken like a true Canadian
posted by philip-random at 11:04 AM on April 26, 2018
spoken like a true Canadian
posted by philip-random at 11:04 AM on April 26, 2018
Robertson: You don't think that this man deserves to die?
Y. Islam: Who, Salman Rushdie?
Robertson: Yes.
Y. Islam: Yes, yes.
Robertson: And do you have a duty to be his executioner?
Y. Islam:Uh, no, not necessarily, unless we were in an Islamic state and I was ordered by a judge or by the authority to carry out such an act – perhaps, yes.
[Some minutes later, Robertson on the subject of a protest where an effigy of the author is to be burned]
Robertson: Would you be part of that protest, Yusuf Islam, would you go to a demonstration where you knew that an effigy was going to be burned?
Y. Islam: I would have hoped that it'd be the real thing.
posted by ostranenie at 11:39 AM on April 26, 2018 [3 favorites]
Y. Islam: Who, Salman Rushdie?
Robertson: Yes.
Y. Islam: Yes, yes.
Robertson: And do you have a duty to be his executioner?
Y. Islam:Uh, no, not necessarily, unless we were in an Islamic state and I was ordered by a judge or by the authority to carry out such an act – perhaps, yes.
[Some minutes later, Robertson on the subject of a protest where an effigy of the author is to be burned]
Robertson: Would you be part of that protest, Yusuf Islam, would you go to a demonstration where you knew that an effigy was going to be burned?
Y. Islam: I would have hoped that it'd be the real thing.
posted by ostranenie at 11:39 AM on April 26, 2018 [3 favorites]
and there's more here, albeit not as straightforward as it first might seem ...
I was a new Muslim. If you ask a Bible student to quote the legal punishment of a person who commits blasphemy in the Bible, he would be dishonest if he didn't mention Leviticus 24:16.[3]
posted by philip-random at 11:51 AM on April 26, 2018 [2 favorites]
I was a new Muslim. If you ask a Bible student to quote the legal punishment of a person who commits blasphemy in the Bible, he would be dishonest if he didn't mention Leviticus 24:16.[3]
posted by philip-random at 11:51 AM on April 26, 2018 [2 favorites]
Probably worth noting that that was 29 years ago and Yusuf Islam has repeatedly said that it was a bad statement on his part, intended to take the piss out of what he considered to be a deeply uninformed question, and that he regrets it. As far as I can tell, he has never supported a Fatwa again.
posted by maxsparber at 11:52 AM on April 26, 2018
posted by maxsparber at 11:52 AM on April 26, 2018
I maybe just have a high threshold of tolerance for misogyny, especially when it comes in such a pretty package. Regarding “Wild World,” it is natural to feel protective of your (ex) partner, scared for their future, and yes, even project your own shortcomings and vulnerabilities onto them. And it is a fact that many men are in paternalistic relationships with women. I think this song reflects the complicated blend of tenderness and bitterness that follows some break ups. This song is not an example of how one should treat other people, it is an example of how (some) people actually do treat each other, and all the ugliness that comes with it.
posted by shalom at 12:58 PM on April 26, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by shalom at 12:58 PM on April 26, 2018 [4 favorites]
as I can tell, he has never supported a Fatwa again
I can't see something about a Fatwa without thinking about Larry David in season 9 of Curb Your Enthusiasm
posted by ShakeyJake at 1:23 PM on April 26, 2018 [1 favorite]
I can't see something about a Fatwa without thinking about Larry David in season 9 of Curb Your Enthusiasm
posted by ShakeyJake at 1:23 PM on April 26, 2018 [1 favorite]
I've always found the artwork on his album sleeves interesting, and I recently learned that he designed most of them himself.
posted by ovvl at 1:34 PM on April 26, 2018
posted by ovvl at 1:34 PM on April 26, 2018
I like Cat Stevens; his is the sort of music my parents would've listened to but didn't in his case and getting to know it later in life hit me with a faux nostalgia that's hard to resist.
But, you know, fortyeight years on from when this album was first released, there's not that much to say about. A decent album by a folk/rock singer of middling importance, now mainly know for being a bit of an idiot when he converted to Islam and even that is decades in the past.
So no wonder people focus on the smarminess of Wild World, which to be honest, I didn't used to find that awful until right now.
The singer-songwriter tradition with the first-person lyric often has this expectation of moral behaviour.
Well, yeah, it's harder to separate the character from the actor in this format, however, there's also the increased realisation, or rather, acknowledgement, that a lot of these sort of songs really truly weren't meant to depict bad or amoral characters, that indeed you were expected to sympathise with these narrators and that maybe that was a bit of a bad idea.
Wild Words is relatively innocent in that regard thou
posted by MartinWisse at 3:38 PM on April 26, 2018
But, you know, fortyeight years on from when this album was first released, there's not that much to say about. A decent album by a folk/rock singer of middling importance, now mainly know for being a bit of an idiot when he converted to Islam and even that is decades in the past.
So no wonder people focus on the smarminess of Wild World, which to be honest, I didn't used to find that awful until right now.
The singer-songwriter tradition with the first-person lyric often has this expectation of moral behaviour.
Well, yeah, it's harder to separate the character from the actor in this format, however, there's also the increased realisation, or rather, acknowledgement, that a lot of these sort of songs really truly weren't meant to depict bad or amoral characters, that indeed you were expected to sympathise with these narrators and that maybe that was a bit of a bad idea.
Wild Words is relatively innocent in that regard thou
posted by MartinWisse at 3:38 PM on April 26, 2018
Like Emily's Fist, I grew up with Cat Stevens. This album is the sound of my childhood. There's something incredibly comforting about coming back to these songs, year after year. I can't disagree with the misogyny; it's absolutely there, and some of his more overtly sexual songs (like Mona Bone Jakon) seem to display a very forceful, demanding male sexuality. And yet at the end of the day I still come back to these songs over and over and they feel like home.
(p.s. I always assumed the narrator poisoned the Lady D'Arbanville murder ballad-style until I learned that it was just a glorified breakup song. my version is better)
posted by capricorn at 4:44 PM on April 26, 2018 [1 favorite]
(p.s. I always assumed the narrator poisoned the Lady D'Arbanville murder ballad-style until I learned that it was just a glorified breakup song. my version is better)
posted by capricorn at 4:44 PM on April 26, 2018 [1 favorite]
Sunshine, who may actually accidentally kill herself duplicating Harold's shenanigans (there is a moment where we see real blood on her blade, and Harold stands above her, horrified; it's ambiguous what happened to her)
No; you see her test the fake blade to see the mechanism of it, and the way it squirts blood, before she goes into her speech. And her Juliet is a bit over-the-top and extended for someone who just fatally stabbed herself. I always felt that Harold is flummoxed by someone who's just beaten him at his own game.
Is there any movie whose emotional effects hinge so heavily upon the songs of a single artist?
I'd put Leonard Cohen's songs in McCabe and Mrs Miller alongside the movies mentioned above.
Anyway, I have a lot of good memories around Cat Stevens' music and some sad ones too.
posted by OolooKitty at 6:57 PM on April 26, 2018 [3 favorites]
No; you see her test the fake blade to see the mechanism of it, and the way it squirts blood, before she goes into her speech. And her Juliet is a bit over-the-top and extended for someone who just fatally stabbed herself. I always felt that Harold is flummoxed by someone who's just beaten him at his own game.
Is there any movie whose emotional effects hinge so heavily upon the songs of a single artist?
I'd put Leonard Cohen's songs in McCabe and Mrs Miller alongside the movies mentioned above.
Anyway, I have a lot of good memories around Cat Stevens' music and some sad ones too.
posted by OolooKitty at 6:57 PM on April 26, 2018 [3 favorites]
he renounced his early music? That makes me sad since I find most of it so lovely and tender.--kitcat
It was his son's interest in music that brought him back to it.
posted by eye of newt at 12:58 PM on April 27, 2018 [1 favorite]
It was his son's interest in music that brought him back to it.
posted by eye of newt at 12:58 PM on April 27, 2018 [1 favorite]
Probably worth noting that that was 29 years ago and Yusuf Islam has repeatedly said that it was a bad statement on his part, intended to take the piss out of what he considered to be a deeply uninformed question, and that he regrets it. As far as I can tell, he has never supported a Fatwa again.
Someone probably took him aside and explained taqiyah to him. "Wait, no...I was only kidding! Heh. Infidels are just A-OK by me!"
posted by ostranenie at 2:01 PM on April 27, 2018
Someone probably took him aside and explained taqiyah to him. "Wait, no...I was only kidding! Heh. Infidels are just A-OK by me!"
posted by ostranenie at 2:01 PM on April 27, 2018
My world wasn't like Cat Stevens said it would be.
posted by MorgansAmoebas at 2:37 PM on April 27, 2018
posted by MorgansAmoebas at 2:37 PM on April 27, 2018
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posted by octothorpe at 6:30 AM on April 26, 2018 [1 favorite]